HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
SEATTLE, WASH., AREA— Part 2
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPEESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
MARCH 18 AND 19, 1955
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
(Index in part 3 of these hearings)
HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY
DEPOSITED BY THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
AUG 15 1955
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1955
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MOROAN M. MOUI.PER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE. Illinois
CLYDE DOYLE. Calitornirt BERNARD W. I\EAR\EY, New York
JAMES I',. ERA/11:R, .III.. Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON. California
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk
n
CONTENTS
March 18, 1955: Testimony of— Pase
Itobert B. Krahl 371)
Kolert IVIiller 382
Eugene Victor Dennett (resumed) 391
Lawrence Earl George 414
Harriett Pierce 41G
March 19, 1955: Testimony of—
Eugene Victor Dennett (resumed) 419
Paul William Delauey 438
Jacob Bitterman 441
Jolin Stenhouse 443
Afternoon session :
John Stenhouse (resumed) 450
Eugene Victor Dennett (resumed) 406
Abraham Arthur Cohen 490
Eugene Victor Dennett (resumed) 492
Bernard Freyd 493
Hans Lenus Adolph Vl'estman 4!)5
(Testimony of Euuene V. Dennett, Harold Johnston, Edwin A. Carlson, and
Margaret Iillizabeth Gustafson, also heard on March IS, 1955, is printed in pt. 1
of this series.)
m
Public Law 601, 79th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter
753, 2d session, which provides :
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES
*******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by snbcommlt-
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa^
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attaclis
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any
necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any suticommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Snbpenas n)ay be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
V
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955
[■■.•
'..,;• • • * • * *
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress,
the following standing committees :
• ****♦♦
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
• *****♦
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committte on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (i) the extent, charac-
ter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (ii)
the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propaganda
that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacivs the
principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any
necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to
take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the
signature of the chairman of the committee or any sul)c<)mmittee, or by any
member designated l)y such chairman, and may be served by any person desig-
nated by any such chairman or member.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
SEATTLE, WASH., AREA— Part 2
FRIDAY, MARCH 18, 1955
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Seattle, Wash.
PUBLIC HEARING
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to recess, at 1 : 30 p. m., in Room 4U2, County-City Building,
Seattle, Wash., Hon. Morgan M, Moulder (chairman) presiding.
Committee members jjresent : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder
(chairman) and Harold H. Velde.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Wheeler?
Mr. Wheeler. ]Mr. Robert Krahl.
Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear tliat the testimony which you are about to
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Krahl. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT B. KRAHL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, JAY G. SYKES
Mr. Wheeler. Would you state your full name?
Mr. Krahl. My name is Robert B. Krahl.
Mr. Wheeler. Will you spell the last name?
Mr. Krahl. K-r-a-h-1.
Mr. Wheeler. I see you are represented by counsel.
Will counsel identify himself for the record?
Mr. Sykes. Jay G. Sykes.
Mr. Wheeler. When were you born, Mr. Krahl ?
Mr. Krahl. To the best of my knowledge, I was born on February
6, 1925.
Mr. Wheeler. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Krahl. I live in Seattle.
Mr. Wheeler. Wliat is your present occupation?
Mr. Krahl. I am unemployed.
Mr. Wheeler. What was your occupation before becoming unem-
ployed ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. With the chairman's permission. I would like to make
a very, very short statement, less than a hundred words.
Mr. Moulder. What was the question, Mr. Wheeler ?
379
380 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
(The pending question was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Moulder. That question calls for an answer, not a statement.
And you can reply or give the answer, and then make any explanation
you wish if it is relevant to the question and your answer.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kraiil. Well, I have been employed with odd jobs the past 9
months ; haven't really been employed. I just worked a few days here
and there.
Mr. Wheeler. Would you relate to the committee your occupational
background for the past 5 years ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. To the best of my knowledge — let's see; 5 years would
be around 1950. I think I have worked as a waiter, I have worked as
a draftsman, I have done a little extra work as a casual laborer,
worked a little time in a sawmill — I think that about covers it.
Mr. AViiEELER. "Wliat is your educational background?
Mr. Krahl. I graduated from high school. I have got a couple of
years of college. I haven't graduated from college.
Mr. Wheeler. What college did you attend?
Mr. Krahl. The University of Arizona.
Mr. Wheeler. When did you cease your studies there?
Mr. Krahl. I think it was around the end of 1947.
Mr. Wheeler. How were you employed from 1947 to IDSO ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. From 1947 until 1950 I worked as a seaman part of that,
time; I think most of that time.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you served in the Armed Forces?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. Yes; I have.
Mr. Wheeler. In what branch of the service did you serve?
Mr. Krahl. In the United States Army.
Mr. Wheeler. What were your dates of service?
Mr. Kraiil. I am not sure, but I think it was around the beginning
of 1951 until about the end of it, probably 2 weeks after the first of the
year, until a week prior to Christmas 1951, 1 am pretty sure.
Mr. Wheeler. What type of discharge did you receive?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. I received a general discharge under honorable condi-
tions.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you familiar with the committee called the
Youth Committee that is within the circles of the Communist Party
in King County?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. At this point, Mr. Chairman, I would like to invoke the
fifth amendment on the ground that I think that this may lead into
questions which could force me to testify against myself.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you acquainted with Mrs. Barbara Hartle?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. I\jrahl. I give the same answer, for the reasons previously
stated.
Mr. Moulder. You decline to answer for the same reason ?
Mr. Krahl. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Wheeler. I would like to refer to part 2 of a document en-
titled "Investigation of Communist Activities in the Pacific North-
west Area." It is a copy of the transcript of hearings held here last
June. Mrs. Hartle is testifying :
COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 381
About 1949 and 1950, the last year that I was in Seattle — a youth committee
was set up which I worked with, controlled, and guided all of its activities and
tried to train the youth along Couuimnist Party lines; and on that youth com-
mittee I remember a young man named Al Gumming, Robert Krahl, Calvin
Harris.
Are you acquainted with Mr. Al Gumming?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kraiil. I invoke the fifth amendment for the reasons previously
stated. I believe tliat is the way to work it.
]\Ir. Wheeler. What were the functions of the youth committee of
the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
iSIr. Krahl. I again invoke the fifth amendment on the grounds
previously stated, and refuse to answer.
Mr. Wheeler. Was Mrs. Hartle correct when she identified you
as a member of the Communist Party, a member of the youth com-
mittee?
Mr. Krahl. I give the same answer, for the same reasons,
Mr. Wheeler. Are you a member of the Communist Party today?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. I give the same answer, for the same reasons.
]SIr. Wheeler. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer as to whether or not you
are a member of the Communist Party today, and, as the reason for
3^our refusal, do you invoke the fifth amendment?
Mr. Krahl. That is correct; yes.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Velde, any questions?
Mr. Velde. Were you a member of the Communist Party during the
time you were in the Army ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. For the reasons previously stated, I must invoke the
fifth amendment and refuse to answer.
Mr. Velde. I take it that you will refuse to give this committee the
benefit of your knowledge concerning the Communist Party activities,
and rely on the fifth amendment whenever you are questioned about
anytliing touching on communism. Is tltat correct?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. I refuse to answer tliat question for the same reasons and
the reasons I have previously stated.
Mr. Velde. That is all.
Mr. ^Moulder. How long were you in the service? I forgot the
period of time. That is, in the armed services of the United States.
Mr. Krahl. About a year. Just under a year.
Mr. Moulder. Was that the full period of your enlistment, the time
you served, or were you discharged prior to the termination of your
period of enlistment?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. Well, I was drafted. I didn't enlist.
Mr. Moulder. Why were you discharged?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. I decline to answer, reluctantly, because I am a little —
I don't really understand where this question of waiver comes in. So
I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment, and for the reasons that I have previously stated.
Mr. MouLDicR. Where were you stationed while in the service?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
382 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Krahl. Well, I was stationed for a while at Fort Ord. I think
it was a few days. And then I served the rest of my time at Camp
Koberts.
Mr. AIouLDER. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party ? I believe the question was asked in another form.
Mr. Krahl. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that question on the
grounds of the fifth amendment, and for the reasons I have previously
stated. "^
Mr. Velde. Did I understand you to say that you were given a
general discharge under honorable conditions from the Army ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. That is what I said; that is correct.
_ Mr. Velde. That is not as high class a discharge as an honorable
discharge; is it? .
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. Well, I really don't know. I don't know the answer
to that.
Mr. Velde. Don't you have any idea why you weren't given an hon-
orable discharge instead of a general discharge?
(The^witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kr.\hl. At this point I invoke the fifth amendment and decline
to answer that question on the grounds that I have previously stated.
Mr. Velde. That is all.
Mr. Moulder. Do you know whether or not you were discharged
for security reasons?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. Mr. Chairman, I reluctantly invoke the fifth amend-
nient again, and for the same reasons, the reasons that I have pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Moulder. Wliile you were serving in the armed services were
you at any time engaged in any un-American or subversive activi-
ties?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Krahl. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that question on the
grounds of the fiftli amendment and for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Robert Miller.
Mr. Moulder. Put up your right hand and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to
g]ve before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and noth-
ing but the trutli, so help you, God?
Mr. Miller. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT MILLER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
SOLIE M. RINGOLD
Mr. Wheeler, State your name, please.
Mr. Miller. My name is Robert Miller.
Mr. Wheeler. When were you born, Mr. Miller?
Mr. Mh.ler. To the best of my knowledge, November 22, 1922.
Mr. AVheeler. Where do you presently reside ?
Mr. Miller. Seattle, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. What has been your educational background ?
Mr. Miller. General, normal grammar school. I don't know
whether you call it junior or senior. And up to the third year of high
school.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 383
Mr. Wheeler. Are you currently employed ?
Mr. Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. How are you employed?
Mr. Miller. I am an appliance, radio and television repair man,
sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Is that here in Seattle?
Mr. Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. And what has your employment background been,
say since 1940?
Mr. Miller. Since 1940, part of the time in the shipyards, part of
the time in Boeing Airplane Co. Part of the time also was spent in
the Armed Forces daring the period which you mentioned.
Mr. Wheeler. What is your military service record?
Mr. Miller. I was inducted into the Navy, and, the best I can recall,
the elates are from June of 1945 until March of 1946. ^
Mr. Wheeler. What type of discharge did you receive ?
Mr. Miller. It is difficult for me to answer that. I believe it was
an honorable discharge. There is some question now that you bring
it up, as to whether it was what the Navy refers to as a battleship
discharge, which I think they reserve to only those who have served
overseas. There are no peculiarities in regard to my discharge, if
that is the intent of the question.
Mr. Wheeler. Wlien were you employed at Boeing Aircraft?
I\Ir. Miller. To the best of my knowledge, with interruptions, of
course, it was in 1943. I do not know now when I was last employed
by Boeing Aircraft except to place it in relation to an event which
would be several months prior to the strike which has been mentioned,
of course, in the proceedings. I could not recall even the month or the
year involved.
Mr. Wheeler. How were your services terminated at Boeing ?
Mr. Miller. My services were terminated for lack of attendance
there.
Mr. Wheeler. Lack of attendance at work?
Mr. Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. While at Boeing were you a member of any union?
Mr. Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. What union was it?
Mr. Miller. The Aeronautical Mechanics Union,^ sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you still a member ?
Mr. Miller. No, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Why are you no longer a member of the union ?
Mr. Miller. Because when I was terminated from Boeing Aircraft
I saw no reasons for further continuing membersliip, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. I see you are represented by counsel.
Will you identify yourself, please?
Mr. RiNGOLD. My name is Solie, S-o-l-i-e, M. Eingold, R-i-n-g-o-l-d.
I am an attorney practicing law in the city of Seattle.
Mr. Wheeler. Do you know a person by the name of Barbara
Hartle?
Mr. Miller. I have known her in the past, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Under what circumstances have you known her?
Mr. Miller. I recall one. I have eaten dinner with her at my
father-in-law's establishment.
Mr. Wheeler. Did you ever see her on any other occasion?
* This Is a referPTice to International Association of Machinists, AFL, Aeronautical
Industrial District Lodge 751.
384 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., ARE4
Mr. IMiLLER. I have seen her on television, perhaps on the street,
and I may have other than that.
Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall ever meeting her in connection with
Communist Party activities?
Mr. Miller. It is difficult to say as to -what vrere the connections.
I would say that perhaps it was in relation to the Communist Party,
sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr, Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. When did you first become a member of the Commu-
nist Party ?
Mr. Miller. To the best of my knowledo;e, in 1943, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. What were the circumstances under which you
joined the Communist Party?
Mr. Miller. It is difficult to reach back that far for me and de-
termine just what motivated my becoming a member. The only
thing that I can recall is I attended several open Communist Party
meetings during that period of time and I saw nothing at variance
with what I believed to be for the common good of the people of the
country. I thereupon became active, and I could not even recall the
initial period of action, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Who contacted you to get you in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Miller. That I could not recall at this time, sir,
Mr. Wheeler. After you joined the Communist Party were you
assigned to any particular group or unit?
Mr. Miller. Not at any time that I recall, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Not at all ?
Mr. Miller. Not that I can recall, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. How long were you a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Miller. There were perhaps interruptions while I was in the
service; I believe there were. To the best of my knowledge. I was
probably a member of the Communist Party from 1943 until 1948,
the best I can recall. I believe tliere was a period of time there that
I was not a member, and it is hard for me to distingush between what is
actual membership and carrying of a card, if there is such a thing, or
payment of dues, and whether I just worked with them. It is difficult
to reach that far back in my mind, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. During this 1943-48 period I believe you stated you
were in the United States Navy. Is that correct ?
Mr. Miller. For a portion of that — from 1945 until 1946. Approx-
imately 9 months, to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. Wheeler. When did you say your employment terminated at
Boeing Aircraft?
Mr. Miller. I cannot name a date. I can only relate it to some
several months prior to the major strike which they had, I could not
name the date.
Mr. Wheeler. Was that in 1943 or 1944?
Mr. Miller. No. Could someone refresh me as to when the strike
occurred at Boeing Aircraft Co. ?
It was 1946 or 1947; I believe in there, at the time which I was
terminated.
Mr. Wheeler. Were you a member of the Communist Party while
employed at Boeing?
Mr, Miller, Yes, sir.
COHOIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 385
Mr. Wheelek. Were you employed at Boeing when you became a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr, Miller. I do not recalL I think I was perhaps a member
prior to going- to Boeing Aircraft Co. I do not recall, however.
jMr. Wheeler. Mrs. Hartle, in previous testimony before the com-
mittee, v\'ent into quite a bit of detail on the efforts of the Communist
Party to infiltrate Boeing Aircraft. Do you have any knowledge
along tliose lines ?
jNIr. JSItller. The answer that you want from me is whether there
was any direction as far as I was concerned, as to where to get employ-
ment. Is that, as I understand, the intent of the question ?
]\Ir. Wheeler. Yes.
JMr. Miller. At no time, to the best of my recollection, was I di-
rected to go anywhere to work or to do any specific thing, as I can
recall it now.
Mr. Velde. Do you have knowledge of any attempt by the Commu-
nist Party to infiltrate the Boeing plant ?
JMr. Miller. 1 have no specific knowledge which I can testify as to
facts, sir. I assume that is what you want, onlv things I know to be
fact.
JMr. Velde. Yes.
JMr. Wheeler. Did you ever hold an office in the Aero Meclianics
Union?
Mr. Mn,LER. Yes. I was at one time a shop steward, at one time a
shop committeeman, and, if memory serves me right, I was president
of one of tlie locals during the war. I am not too clear on whether
that was president or vice president, sir.
JMr. Wheeler. To your knowledge, were there any other members
of the Communist Party in the Aei;o Mechanics Union?
JMr. Miller. I do not know with any degree of certainty anyone at
Boeing while 1 was there who might have been members of the Com-
munist Party. There was certainly speculation or perhaps reason to
assume they were. However, I would like to confine my testimony
to facts, and I do not know any to be a fact.
JVIr. Wheeler. We desire to be confined to facts. Are you testifying
that you knew no one at Boeing Aircraft Co., to be a member of the
Communist Party?
JMr. JMiLLER. To the best of my recollection at this time, sir.
IMr. Wheeler. You knew no one in the Aero Machinists Union
to be a member of the Communist Party ?
JMr. Miller. In the Aero Mechanics Union ?
JMr. Wheeler. Aero Mechanics; I am sorry.
Mr. JMiLLER. I relate the two together, in that I believe the Aero
Mechanics were only involved with employees of Boeing.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
JVIr. Wheeler. You have also stated, I believe, that you were not
assigned to any group or unit of the Communist Party.
JVIr. Miller. To the best of my recollection, that was my testimony,
sir.
Mr. Wheeler. You don't recall who recruited you into the Com-
munist Party ?
JVIr. JMiLLER. I do not, sir. In fact, I might explain it this way: I
am not even sure whether it was any specific individual or whether,
during the course of an open meeting, it fell upon me, a desire to be-
come a member. It is difficult for a man to reach that far back in
years and testify with any certainty, sir.
386 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Wheeler. You were very vague in your testimony as to how
you became a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Miller. Sir, is it unreasonable to be vague on something that
occurred nigh onto 12 years ago when I was between the age of 20 and
21, sir? Is that difficult to understand, that a man might honestly
be vague?
Mr. Wheeler. How many meetings of the Communist Party did
you attend from 1943 until the time you went in the Armed Forces in
1945?
Mr. Miller. I would be unable to give you any number with any
degree of accuracy. It would be pure speculation and only an esti-
mate. If you want an estimate, I could give it if the committee so
desires.
Mr. Wheeler. I think you can speculate on this part of your testi-
mony.
Mr. Miller. As I get the question, you are asking me how many do
I think might have gone to. If I am recalling something I would have
an actual number and would not have to estimate. I am not able to
recall any number of meetings at which I attended. There was per-
haps 30, 40 meetings, I do not know, over this period of time. It is
purely a speculative answer, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. But you may have attended that many?
Mr. Miller. That is right. And that may be at variance 50 percent
one way or the other.
Mr. Wheeler. We are not binding you on this.
Mr. Miller. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Where were these meetings held that you attended ?
Mr. Miller. I cannot recall specifically where any meetings might
have been held. In fact, most of my activity while at Boeing's was in
legitimate, recognized trade-union work within the framework of the
contract with Boeing Aircraft Co. Most, or if any, activity with other
members, who I perhaps suspected to be Communists, or persons of
my particular persuasion, was not in the form of a meeting, but per-
haps I would meet one while at work, or I might meet one at the cafe-
teria, or several of us might meet together in the cafeteria and just
discuss general problems.
Mr. Wheeler. Did you receive any direction from the Communist
Party to conceal your membership because of your employment at
Boeing's ?
Mr. Miller. I do not believe it was at anyone's direction. Thinking
back — and I can only assign, a reason now going backward — I perhaps
knew of my own intelligence not to do so. I would perhaps be ex-
{)elled from the Aero Mechanics Union, which, of course, would mean
OSS of employment at Boeing's. I do not recall any specific direction.
Mr. Wheeler. But you have testified that you may have attended
approximately 40 meetings during the period from 1943 to 1945, a
period of, say, 18 months or 20 months.
Mr. Miller. I had thought I was testifying during the whole period
at which I was in the party.
Mr. Wheeler. No, it is confined to the period from the time you
joined the Communist Party to when you entered the United States
Navy.
Mr. Miller. Well then, of course, it makes more obvious that the-
answer was purely speculative and could well have been largely in
error. I thought I was answering or speculating in regard to my
whole membership in the Communist Party.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 387
Mr. Wheeler. Would you like to estimate again that period of
time?
Mr. Miller. Well, I have got to go backward here. Wliich period
of time are you referring to?
Mr. Wheeler. From the time you joined the Communist Party
until you entered the United States Navy.
Mr. Miller. That would be from 1943 up until 1945. Eight?
Two years?
Mr. Wheeler. That is right.
Mr. Miller. Again a purely speculative answer : perhaps 20 meet-
ings, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Now you attended approximately 20 meetings from
1943 to 1945. And from 1946 to 1948 you attended approximately
20 more. And you don't recall the place where any of these meetings
were held?
Mr. Miller. I have testified where I recalled that I thought we had
conducted some. I cannot recall any specific place. One or two
might have occurred at a rooming house where I stayed. I do not
recall, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Where were they usually held ? Was there a regular
meeting place?
Mr. Miller. To the best of my knowledge ; no, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Who called the meetings? That is, how did you
get a notice there was going to be a meeting held somewhere? How
did you know where to go ?
Mr. Miller. About the only way that I can think of it backward
now, and I am not at all sure, is I would probably see or meet someone
else on the job or in the cafeteria, and they might mention that we
were going to get together and discuss the general problems.
Mr. Moulder. On the average, how many people would ordinarily
attend those meetings?
Mr. Miller. As I recall it, it was a very, very few. I could not
say. Probably under 10, looking way, way back. But it is difficult
to say.
Mr. Mout.der. Were they composed of people that you knew at
the same place of employment?
Mr. Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. All of them ?
Mr. Miller. To the best of my knowledge now; yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Wheeler.
(The witness confers witli his counsel.)
Mr. Miller. Mr. Chairman, might I make one brief point in regard
to tliis time ? It might be better understood.
The question probably arises as to how I am so vague on meetings
and meeting places. It might be better understood if we take into
account that, as best I can recall, this occurred during the time when
the Communist Party was then the Communist Political Association.
I believe that they held open meetings. I do not recall too much
secrecy involved in it. And for that reason secrecy did not perhaps
impress itself on my mind. And to recall in one period of time
where a change takes place and into another, it changes things, looking
backward and forward.
Mr. Moulder. Yes ; I can appreciate what you are saying.
Mr. Miller. Thank you.
Mr. Moulder. At those meetings would there be a record kept of
the meeting ; minutes of any sort ?
3S8 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. ]\IiLLER. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Would there be an officer or a person presiding at
the meeting? Someone who would act as a chairman or some official?
Mr. Miller. Whether it would be a person who acted as a chairman
or whom the rest might just look to on the basis that — from the man-
ner in which they spoke, they appeared to
Mr. Moulder. Were dues paid at those meetings?
Mr. ^IiLLER. I cannot recall anything specific. However, I would
imagine that there were, sir.
Mr. ]\IouLDER. I wish to compliment you for coming forward here
as a witness admitting that you were a member of the Communist
Party, which is far better and a better reflection upon you as an indi-
vidual and as an American citizen than to hide behind the hfth amend-
ment. But surely while you were a member you recall having paid
membership dues.
Mr. Miller. Sir, I would have to answer it in this way, that undoubt-
edly I did. However, to recall a specific instance — I could not.
Mr. Moulder. Do you recall the name of any one person who
attended those meetings at any time ? I mean during that long period
of time, with the frequent meetings you have admitted that you
attended, and the close contact that you had with the individuals,
where you say you not only attended meetings, but frequently had
lunch or ate meals together or visited with one another and discussed
the meetings, surely you could remember the name of at least one
person or more that you know, of your own personal knowledge, who
associated with you at the same time in that respect.
Mr. Miller. Perhaps I am confused. Perhaps that is the difficulty
I have in answeriug. I was under the impression that the only names
which you wished from me, to give out here publicly, would be persons
whom I was certain or knew to be Communists.
Mr. Moulder. Eight.
Mr. Miller. And it is only for that reason that I do not mention
names. It is probable that I could prod my memory into remember-
ing persons whom I met with or worked with while at Boeing's in the
trade unions. But to identify them here gives the impression that
1 am identifying them as Communists, which I do not know to be a
certainty.
Mr. Moulder, Do you recall the names of any persons who attended
any of those meetings that you have referred to as Communist Party
meetings or as Communist Political Association committee meetings,
who were not members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Miller. Sir, I could not be certain of where they w^ere. I mean
either way. If I was certain of those who were not members, that, by
process of elimination, would make me certain of those who were.
And I am not certain either way, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Mrs. Hartle testified that you were a member of the
Holly Park Branch of the Communist Party. Does that refresh your
memory to any degree ?
Mr. Miller. In relation to what question, sir ?
Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall being a member of that iivAt or cell of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Miller. I do not recall any activity in the branch that is
mentioned. It is possible that in their records or in their determina-
tion that they maybe have regarded me as a member of that branch
and that I did reside there.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 389
Mr Wheeler. You testified that during the period of time of your
membership, the Communist Party was dissolved and the Communist
Political Association formed. However, when you returned back
from the Army in 1946 the Communist Political Association had been
disbanded and the Communist Party reformed. A reorganization
had taken place and the party had tightened up considerably alter the
Duclos letter, if you are familiar with that.
But did you notice, upon your return from the Armed t orces, any
difference in the structure of the Communist Party? ,
Mr. Miller. I don't know that I paid any particular attention, sir.
I don't recall any great activity in the Communist Party alter I re-
turned from the service. -, .. .^ r^ • *.
Mr. Wheeler. You have also testified that you left the Communist
Partv in 1948. For what reasons did you leave the party ?
Mr. Miller. As to the best of my knowledge, sir, I was dropped
from the Communist Party for inactivity. • ^ t, ^ ^
Mr AVhffler Have you attended any other Communist Party-type
meetings like the Socialist Workers Party since you left the Com-
munist Party? , r. • t . ttt i t> .
Mr Miller. To be specific, as far as the Socialist A\orkers 1 arty,
I never have. And, to the best of my knowledge, I have attended no
meetings of that type, sir. • v -j i
Mr. Wheeler. And at this time you cannot recall one individual
who was a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Miller. Well, I could put it this way: I could recall knowing
Barbara Hartle. The only way I could say that she was is that she has
publicly testified that she was.
Mr. Wheeler. I^Ir. Chairman, I have no further questions at this
time. However, I would like to recommend that the witness' subpena
be continued.
;Mr. Moulder. All right.
Do you have a question, Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. Yes. „
I believe you said you got out of the Army in 1948. Is that correct i
Mr. Miller. To the best of my knowledge, sir. . ^ „ ^
Mr. Velde. What prompted you to get out of the Communist Party
when you did? , , ^ ,
Mr. Miller. To the best of my knowledge, the party dropped me
for inactivity, sir. . ....
Mr. Velde. You never wrote a letter disavowing membership in
the Communist Party then?
Mr. :Miller. No, sir, I never did.
Mr. Velde. Or any other formal withdrawal from the Communist
Party?
Mr. Miller. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Mr. Velde. Are you a Communist Party member today i
Mr. Miller. No, sir, I am not. And again I have to testify to the
best of my knowledge. I hope and trust that no one has me on the
rolls unbeknownst to me. To my knowledge, I am not a member,
no, sir. . • j. i t^. •
Mr. Velde. I certainly do appreciate your coming forward, it is
rather refreshing.
It appears to me that with a little searching of your memory you
might be able to recall some of the incidents more clearly than you
have. I am sorry to say you are vague in your testimony about
62222— 55— pt. 2 2
390 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
activities of the Communist Party in this area. So I will be in
favor of the recommendation of Mr. "VVlieeler that you be retained
under subpena so that you might check. If you want any assistance
from our tiles. I am sure Mr. Wheeler will be able to give that to you.
Next tm.e you testify you may testify a little more definitely.
Mr. Moulder. For your own benefit and for your own interest, I
will HFk you this question :
You say, as far as you know, you are no longer a member of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. That is with the fear that some organization or
someone might still be carrying your name on the rolls.
Mr. Miller. It is a possibility.
Mr. Moulder. Do you publicly, and here and now before this com-
mittee, disavow any belief in the Communist Party and refute all of
the principles and policies for which it stands? Do you now take
that stand, and do you now so testify?
(Tlie witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Miller. The question, as I understand it, is— I mean the ques-
tion of my avowal of a belief.
I hopel am allowed a little bit of latitude in answering this.
I state I am not a member of the Communist Party today due to
any action on my part. I further state that I disavow anything which
is contrary to the best interests of our country and of our people. As
to pinning it down to the Communist Party, I have to frankly
concede that I am not at all sure where the Communist Party is. I
mean if the tilings that are ascribed to them are true, certainly I dis-
avow them. I say that I have no association with them. It is only
that I hesitate to disavow anything that I am not sure of.
I am sure of tlie one thing, that I am opposed to anything that is
against tlie best interests of the people of our country.
Actually, since I was dropped in 1948 I have been inactive in all
political activities to the point where I am not even registered to vote,
I don t believe, since 1948. I am confused on where most everybody
stands, and I have not enough facts to draw a conclusion on it.
Mr. Moulder. The reason I ask you that question is because there
is considerable evidence before this committee and other investigative
Government agencies that many Communist Party members ceased
to be active as party members but have gone underground and still
continue m tlieir same belief, the same philosophy, and with, of course,
the same objectives. I believe your answer is clear to this point:
you attended all of those Communist Party meetings; I believe you
said a hundred, and it would vary one way or another, 50 percent
either way.
Mr. Velde. Approximately 40, w^asn't it?
Mr. Miller. That is it.
Mr Moulder. But during that period of time you certainly must
have been well versed and qualified to know the purposes and the
po icies ot the Communist Party as such, because at those meetings
didn t you study the Communist Party literature and study the pur-
poses for which it was organized?
Mr. IMiLLER. Is that the question?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. Miller. Yes, I did.
Mr. ]\IouLDER. Has your opinion now changed with respect to the
COMMUNIST ACTrV'ITIES EN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 391
Communist Party from what it was when you were attending the
Communist Party meetings ? Or is it the same as it was then 'i
Mr. Miller. I see what you are driving at, and it is hard for me
to get my understanding across.
Mr. Moulder. You say you have severed your association with
the party, and I want to know if it is just a technical disassociation
or is it a clean break from the Communist Party?
Mr. Miller. No; it is not a technical disassociation. If I might
have a moment, I would like to go on a little further.
First, the reference is to having attended, say, up to 40 meetings,
one way or the other, and being aware of the goal of the Communist
Party. I would have to say this in all honesty : During the time I was
a member of the Communist Party I at no time was aware of their
desire to do anything which was contrary to the best interests of the
people. Now it could conceivably be that I was not aware, perhaps
naive.
All of my activity — and, in fact, that is what prompted me not to
take the fifth amendment. At no time in my life have I knowingly
done anything contrary to the best interests of the people of this coun-
try. And certainlv were I to be aware of that in an association and
continue activity I would be guilty of doing something against tlie
best interests of the people.
Mr. Moulder. The subpena that has been served upon you will be
in full force and effect. You will be subject to recall upon due notice.
Mr. Miller. Should I leave for the day ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
The subpena will remain in full force and effect, and ycu will be
subject to recall upon due notice at any time in the future. That
does not mean, of course, that you have to attend any of the hearings
here today or tomorrow. ,,,.,, ,^ ^t t^ -r
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call Mr. Eugene V.
Dennett at this time.
TESTIMONY OF EUGENE VICTOK DENNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD— Kesumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett, at the time we suspended your
testimony you had completed your narrative with regard to your ex-
perience in the CCC camp, and told us that immediately thereafter
you had been shanghaied into working shipping.
(x\t this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing
Mr. Dennett. A little freight boat here in Puget Sound.
Mr. Tavenner. I am sure that would be a very interesting story,
but it is not a matter we are investigating in our work here.
After you had that experience how long was it before you returned
to the work of the Communist Party ? x t -. .
Mr. Dennett. It was within a very few months because I didn t
know at the time I started to work in the freight-boat industry in
Puo-et Sound that there was an organizing drive of a union to organ-
ize Ihe emplovees and that they had reached the point before I came
along where they had entered into an arbitration. And they were
awaiting the decision of this arbitrator. Finally the decision camo
down, I think about 3 or 4 months after I entered the industry, and
the decision was so adverse that the men stopped work as soon as the
boats got into port.
392 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
JSIr. Tavenner. What do you mean by saying that a decision came
down ?
Mr. Dennett, The arbitrator handed down his decision. He was
a very long time making his decision. When it finally came down
it was very disagreeable to all the employees. In fact, they rejected
it ; they refused to accept it and called a strike.
When they called that strike they were confronted Avith a problem
of electing delegates to attend a meeting of the union to determine
what course of action to pursue.
I was elected a delegate from the crew that I was working with.
When we arrived at this meeting — I believe the meeting was held
in tlie labor temple — we discussed the award, and the union leaders
at that time were very frankly disappointed in the results of it.
The sum total of it was that it led to a strike, and the members
seemed to like the way I presented their case during the course of the
arguments, getting ready for the strike. And when the strike oc-
curred I v/as elected chairman of the strike committee and chairman
of the negotiating committee.
So we were again brought into public attention, and the Communist
Party looked me up very quickly to find out what was going on and
to try to advise me how to conduct myself in the course of that strike.
They really knew very little about it. They learned a great deal from
me because I was working with the men. And their advice was I
must immediately fight the leadership of the union,
i made a few feeble etlorts in that direction and found that I
didn't have any good reason for fighting that leadership because they
were carrying out the program which I had advocated in the original
strike meeting to satisfy the needs of the members.
Mr. Tavenner. Apparently, the Communist Party w^as more in-
terested in promoting its own objectives than it was the obj actives of
the union which was on strike.
Mr. Dennett. They were anxious that someone from the Commu-
nist Party gain control in that organization.
]\ir. Tavenner. What was the name of the organization?
Mr. Dennett. At that time it was called the Ferry Boatmen's
Union of the Pacific. It later has changed its name, and, in making
use of that name, I certainly Avant it to be clearly understood that
using that name in nowise should be construed as meaning that it was
any Communist organization because it was not.
Mr, Tavenner. It rather demonstrated just the contrary.
Mr. Dennett. And its leaders were not.
But the leaders of that organization w^ere making as sincere an effort
as they knew how to represent the wishes and needs of the member-
ship.
While there were some tactical differences between myself and therri
on various occasions, we did adopt a program wherein we agreed
with each other that none of us would attempt to do anything or to
speak in behalf of the organization without conferring with the other.
In other words, we made a mutual agreement among ourselves as
officials of the strike committee which required the exchange of mutual
confidence. And, to the best of my ability, I carried that out, and
I think, in all fairness, it should be said "that, to the best of their
ability, they carried their part out. I think the value of that is
demonstrated by the fact that in the final settlement of that strike we
succeeded in raising the wages of the freight-boat employees from
COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 393
$49 per month, without any regulation of hours, to a wage of about
$150 per month with a reguhition of hours and provision for over-
time.
Mr. Velde (presiding).
I am not quite clear about this ferry boatmen's union. Was it a local
union not affiliated with any other ?
Mr. Dennett. It was a part of an American Federation affiliate.
At that time it was the Ferry Boatmen's Union of the Pacific, affiliated
with the International Seamen's Union of America, affiliated with
the American Federation of Labor.
Mr. Velde. In what year ?
Mr. Dennett. That was in 1936.
Mr. Velde. How large was the local ? How many members ?
Mr. Dennett. I think there were in the neighborhood of 300 or
400 members in Puget Sound at that time. But that, of course, con-
trolled all the tug boats and all the barges, all the towing, all the
servicing, on the waterside of the smaller vessels.
I think that that completes the statement of what was in progress at
the time of the question.
Mr. Tavenner. After this experience on the waterfront what was
your next contact with the Communist Party?
Mr. Dennett. The next occurred in the district council of the
Maritime Federation of the Pacific. That was Northwest District
Council No. 1 which was in Seattle. This was the council to which
delegates were sent from all the maritime unions.
(At this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to
the hearing room.)
Mr. Dennett. And some of the shoreside unions, which worked in
the shipyards.
These unions were brought together in the 1934 strike, which was
before my time. And I would be presuming on you to try to give any
testimony about the exact way in which it was formed except to say
that, consistent with the Communist Party policy, it was our objective,
from the days of the old Marine Workers Industrial Union, which was
one of the affiliates of the Red International of Labor Unions, to
organize all the maritime workers into one organization.
However, it was the desire of the workers in the industry to choose
their membership in the duly constituted, chartered organizations of
craft unions which were already in the field, such as the Sailors' Union
of the Pacific, the ISIarine Firemen, Oilers, Water Tenders and Wipers
Association, the Marine Cooks and Stewards of the Pacific.^ And
later on 1 believe the radio operators, the masters, mates, and pilots,^
and the marine engineers.^ Then, of course, the shoreside organiza-
tions of longshoremen,- machinists and shipwrights, joiners, boiler-
makers. There were many organizations that were involved in any
kind of waterborne traffic.
Through the Maritime Federation of the Pacific all of these were
brought together, and, for a brief period of time at least, cooperated
quite successfully.
However, by 1935 one organization began to object to the Com-
munist Party influence in the federation. That was the sailors' union
^ Til is is a reference to National Union of Marine Cooks and Stewards.
' This Is a reference to Masters, Mates, and Pilots of America, National Organization
(AFL).
«This is a reference to National Marine Engineers' Beneficial Association (CIO).
394 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
under Harry Lundeberg. However, in that dispute it wasn't clear to
the average person who was in the industry just what the nature of the
dispute was, and most people felt that the dispute was a personal
dispute between the leaders of the sailors and the leaders of the long-
shoremen. My own knowledge of the situation, of a later date, would
lead me to believe that that is not an adequate explanation of what
the dispute was all about.
The dispute ran much deeper than personality clashes. The dis-
pute was a fundamental policy question dispute, and that dispute cen-
tered around whether or not the organization would move closer and
closer to the Red International of Labor Unions through this new
form or whether it would permit itself to separate into the respective
component parts and each function separately and independently
without that international Red affiliation.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the outcome of that dispute?
Mr. Dennett. The outcome was that the split S])read. First ono
organization and then another began to have misgivings as to the
consequences of being full partners in the Maritime Federation of the
I'acihc.
The first one to show the disaffection were the sailors. Subse-
quently the marine firemen showed disaffection. Then the master
mates and pilots showed disaffection. And the marine engineers
showed disaffection. The radio operators began to show some dis-
affection. Some of the longshoremen showed disaffection.
So the result was that by the time 1937 or 1938 rolled around the
Maritime Federation was becoming sort of a bare skeleton which
existed with a powerful name but did not have the moral backing and
support of the members of the organizations that were affiliated to it.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the organization Communist-dominated?
Mr. Dennett. The Maritime Federation of the Pacific top leader-
ship had at all times some prominent Communist leaders, some persons
who were Communists.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you at this time give us the names of those who
occupied an official position in that organization who were known to
you to be members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. One of the first ones that I knew was a man by the
name of Walter Stack.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Walter Stack become very prominent in the
Communist Party?
Mr. Dennett. Walter Stack was in the marine firemen's union and
exercised a great deal of influence in that organization here.
Another was Ernest Fox. Ernest Fox was a patrolman in the
Sailors Union of the Pacific, and he exercised a great deal of influence
in the sailors union. He was one of the original ones. Wlien Mr.
Lundeberg was the first president of the organization Mr. Fox was
his right hand bower who did most of the leg work for Mr. Lundeberg
at that time. Lundeberg was the first president of the Maritime Fed-
eration of the Pacific.
Mr. Tavenner. At that time was he anti-Communist?
Mr. Dennett. I think, from the stories that I have been told, that
Mr. Lundeberg was thought so well of at that time tliat he was invited
to take part and did participate in some top fraction meetings of the
Communist Party in the Maritime Federation. And when he turned
against the Communist Party a little bit later on that incensed the
COM^IUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 395
Communists so much that they looked upon Mr. Lundeberg as a poten-
tial traitor who might reveal a good deal more about them than they
wished to have revealed, so that they launched many attacks upon Mr.
Lundeberg for the political purpose of diverting the attention from
the real reason for the attack.
I do not mean to say by that that I endorsed everything Mr. Lunde-
berg did, because I disagreed with most of the things he did on a
straight trade-union basis on a later date. But this much about that
relationship I do know, and I know that — continuing the answer to
your question as to the others — the next one whom I knew who also
became president of the Maritime Federation of the Pacific was a man
by the name of James Engstrom.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name, please.
Mr. Dennett. E-n-g-s-t-r-o-m,
Mr. Dennett. E-n-g-s-t-r-o-m. Engstrom also came from the
Marine Firemen's L^nion here in the Seattle branch. Mr. Engstrom
exercised powerful influence in the organization. However, he came
to a very sad end in his relationships there because, for some reason
or other, he began to have some difficulty following the Communist
Party line and instructions, and ultimately took a vacation, went to
Alaska, thought the situation over, and I believe that he informed sojne
Federal Government agency of his connection and relationship at
that time, and severed his connection or resigned from his position,
and what happened to him after that I do not know.
Mr. Velde. I am not clear on this probably because I am not up on
my organization of labor unions as well as I^ should be.
Was the Sailors Union of the Pacific a part of the unit within the
federation ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, it was affiliated.
Mr. Velde. It was not a new organization then when it split off
under
Mr. Dennett. No. The Sailors Union of the Pacific is one of the
oldest organizations on the west coast, founded originally by old
Andrew Furuseth.
Mr. Velde. Is the same true of the other organizations that split
from the federation ? Were they at one time units within the federa-
tion?
Mr. Dennett, Yes, they were. Later on there was a man that be-
came an official in the Maritime Federation, by the name of Pringle,
P-r-i-n-g-l-e. I do not remember his first name. Pringle occupied
a high position in the federation. I do not recall at this moment the
exact position, but I do know that when I had business to transact on
behalf of the Ferry Boatsmen's Union at that time, as it was known,
I had to deal with Mr. Pringle. And he was a member of the party
also.
Later on I came to know another person who later became president
of the Maritime Federation, and was the last president to the best of
my recollection, a man by the name of Bruce Hannon, H-a-n-n-o-n.
Mr. Bruce Hannon was a longshoreman from the city of Seattle,
worked on the Seattle waterfront for a good many years. Mr. Han-
non also came into conflict with the Communist Party policy while
he was a member of the Communist Party, and totally disagreed with
the decision to wipe out the Maritime Federation.
The policy decision arrived at on that question was due to the fact
that the CIO was coming into existence in 1937, and it was the belief
396 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
of the Communist Party that if the Maritime Federation were dis-
solved and liquidated that the affiliates of it would form a very good,
solid, and substantial core of the new CIO organization and would be
able to take all the fishermen unions with it into the CIO.
Mr. Hannon did not agree with that policy. He felt that the Mari-
time Federation still had a function to perform and it should not have
been liquidated. And he came into violent dispute with the party
leadership over that question. How it was finally resolved I do not
know. I did not see Mr. Hannon until after the war, and I met him
one day very casually and he did not at that time express anything
definitive which I could contribute now to enlighten anyone as to what
he felt except to say that he was still bitter.
Mr. Tavenner. As a result of that change of emphasis on the part
of the Communist Party, that is, from the Maritime Federation to its
component parts, which were to form another organization, vv^as the
Maritime Federation of the Pacific disbanded?
Mr. Dennett. That is right.
Mr. TavennerJ Can you give us the approximate date?
Mr. Dennett. To the best of my recollection, it would be right
around 1938 or 1939. I may be a little bit off one year or another
there, but it is close to that date.
Mr. Tavenner. During this period, between the time that you were
shanghaied on a boat here in Seattle and 1938, did you engage in any
other activities in the Communist Party not connected with maritime
affairs?
Mr. Dennett. I certainly did. I was sent as a delegate from the
Inlandboatmen's Union.^ The name didn't become Inlandboatmen
until much later, but I think of it now in that term. The name
actually was Ferry Boatmen's Union at that time.
As a result of the successful conduct of our strike in 1936, the
members and the good relationship which was established between
the officers and myself, the officers agreed with the membsrship in
electing me a delegate to represent the organization in the Central
Labor Council. And that, of course, involved attending a weekly
meeting every Wednesday night in the labor temple.
Mr. Tavenner. Where ?
Mr. Dennett. In Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. Just tell us very briefly what the Central Labor
Council was.
Mr. Dennett. It was the city organization to which all American
Federntion of Lnbor affiliates were affiliated, and sent delegates to dis-
cuss their mutual business weekly.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the fact that you were sent there as a delegate
make you a member of the Central Labor Council ?
Mr. Dennett. It did. Because of my activity in the Maritime Fed-
eration District Council, the delegates there, most of whom were also
delegates to the Central Labor Council, elected me chairman of
the maritime caucus which was comprised of all those affiliates from
the maritime unions who were also affiliates of the Central Labor
Council. There was a duplication of affiliation there, and I was
elected chairman of that caucus. As that chairman, I was able to
speak in behalf of that caucus — all those maritime delegates — which
was the largest caucus at that time in the Central Labor Council.
^ This Is a reference to Inland Boatmen's Union of the Pacific.
COMMUjSTIST activities in the SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 397
Consequently, when I arose to speak the chairman of the Central
Labor Council would recognize me rather than recognize any other
member of the caucus because he was recognizing the duly elected
leadership of the caucus. Consequently, it was my function to rep-
resent that caucus on the floor of the Central Labor Council on all im-
portant questions, which I did. And it caused a great deal of attention
to be focused on my work and on the work of the maritime unions.
We were trying our level best to support the policies which the
Communist Party urged upon us, and that pertained especially to the
question of war, fighting the program of involvement in war at that
time. It involved being very critical of the top leadership of the
American Federation of Labor, which many other people criticized as
well as we, and by we, I mean the Communists were not the only ones
Yhat criticized; many of the rank-and-file members who had no
knowledge of Communist Partj?^ policy or activity were also critical.
But because of this similarity of criticism, the Communists, knowing
where they were going, were able to direct this criticism along very
effective lines. And I was a central instrument in that effort in the
Central Labor Council in the city of Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. As a result of your experience on the Central La-
bor Council were you selected for other organizational work in the
Communist Party?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, I was.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your work ?
Mr. Dennett. The Communist Party recognized that the position
which I was attaining in the Central Labor Council represented a
powerful political influence in the city because the city of Seattle at
that time had the reputation of being the best organized labor city
in the United States of America. There was hardly an industry that
was not actually organized in some labor union, holding bona fide
labor-union contracts with its management or employer. And the
city had a very wide reputation in that respect. Some people looked
upon that as good; some people looked upon it as bad. The Com-
munist Party looked upon it as being very good because it provided
us an opportunity to reach every single worker in the city indirectly.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Would you say tliat as a result of your successful
efforts while a member of the Central Labor Council, you took part
in other Communist Party activities?
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe the nature of those activities?
Mr. Dennett. It was in the Washington Commonwealth Federa-
tion, which was an organization which came into existence, the ele-
ments of it came into existence, prior to my coming from the CCC's.
But this organization originally grew out of the transformation from
the unemployed to the employed workers. And people built what
was known as Commonwealth Builder Clubs. And then, of course,
you recall that in that earlier period, 1933, there was a change of
political administration due to a national election. And in that
period there were a group of young, ambitious politicians who wanted
to get elected to public office. There were many young aspiring grad-
uates of college who felt that they had a contribution to make, and
they sought audiences before these respective organizations to win
political favor, make speeches and otherwise become publicly known
so that when they did choose to file as a candidate for public office
that they could expect enough support to get elected.
398 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
These Commonwealth Builders ultimately merged and formed
what was known as the Washington Commonwealth Federation.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there anything of a Communist origin that you
know of in the establishment of the Commonwealth Builders?
Mr. Dennett. Ko. To the best of my knowledge, this was a result
of the efforts of people who were not directed or led by the Communist
Party. However, their efforts met with such sweeping success that
the Communist Party had to concern itself if it was going to remain
a political factor.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party in order to
become the leader in the field which it desired, would have to get con-
trol of such organizations. Is that what you mean?
Mr. Dennett. Absolutely. We recognized that. And since being
pushed into leadership in various activities in the city, it fell to me
to do a lot of this representative work of the Communist Party in the
ranks of the Washington Commonwealth Federation, because the
prestige I had in the Inland Boatmen's Union as a result of the suc-
cessful strike made it a comparatively simple matter for the mem-
bers to elect me a delegate and be a bona fide representative of a bona
fide labor union in the Washington Commonwealth Federation.
Mr. Tavenner. Without going into detail, will you tell us what the
connection was, between the Commonwealth Builders and the Wash-
ington Commonwealth Federation, or how one may have succeeded
the other?
Mr. Dennett. The Commonwealth Builders were the groups of
small organizations which preceded the Washington Commonwealth
Federation. The Communist Party became interested in the success
of Commonwealth Builders and brought forth some proposals to cause
the organization to expand and grow.
One of the proposals of the Communist Party was that steps should
be taken by the Commonwealth Builders to make possible the affilia-
tion not only of neighborhood groups alone
Mr. Tavenner. Neighborhood groups of what?
Mr. Dennett. Of either Democrats or Commonwealth Builders,
or unemployed organizations or Workers Alliance. There are still
a few remnants of those, remnants of the old Unemployed Citizens
League organizations. These had all transformed and became the
foundation upon which the Commonwealth Builders rested.
The Communist Party, however, conceived that if the organization
were to become as powerful as it should and ought to be, that provision
should be made for the affiliation of larger organizations. And the
Communist Party succeeded in prevailing upon most of its members
to enter the American Federation of Labor unions. Consequently
it was a simple matter to introduce resolutions in numerous labor
tinions urging that the American Federation of Labor unions affiliate
with the Washington Commonwealth Federation. At the same time
they proposed the calling of a convention to broaden the base of the
organization of this Commonwealth Builders.
That was done. And the Washington Commonwealth Federation
was brought into existence as an organization with affiliation from
large numbers of unions in addition to Democratic clubs and unem-
ployed clubs and fraternal organizations. Anything and everything
which was willing to affiliate was certainly welcomed and urged to
affiliate to the organization, pay dues, participate in its conventions,
participate in the electoral activities it engaged in.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 399
Mr, Taveistner. The method that the Communist Party used to
assist in the organization of the Washington Commonwealth Federa-
tion was to induce the leadership of the particular organizations which
they were members of, such as the various labor organizations that you
mentioned
Mr. Dennett. They would raise perfectly legitimate reasons which
any ordinary person would recognize as proper.
Mr. Tavenner. And they brought their influence to bear on the
formation of the organization through that method.
Mr. Dennett. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. As a result of that action did you say a convention
was held ?
. Mr. Dennett. A convention of the Commonwealth Builders was
held, which changed the name to Washington Commonwealth Federa-
tion.
(At this point Kepresentative Harold H. Velde left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Dexxett. Because of that affiliation of whole organizations
whicli were not geographical in nature — take a labor union : It was
not geographical in nature; it Avas a complete affiliate without having
geogi\aphical definition whereas a Democratic club in a particular
district or a particular part of the city was restricted to a particular
area.
. I say the federation j^art became a. necessary part of the title be-
cause of the nature of the changed affiliations.
^Ir. Ta\t2xxer. Before the name was clianged what was the title?
Mr. Dennett. Commonwealth Builders.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it w\as a conversion of Common-
wealth Builders into an overall organization.
Mr. Dennett. It wa3.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Titled "Washington Commonwealth Federation."
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for approximately
5 minutes.
(Whereupon- a short recesr- was taken.)
(Representatives Moulder and Velde were present upon reconven-
ing at the expiration of the recess.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett, I think you have made it clear in your
testimony that the Commonwealth Builders were not organized by
the Communist Party and that there was very little, if any, Commu-
nist Party influence within those affiliated organizations as such. Am
I correct in that ?
Mr. Denxeit. Well, that is essentially correct.
Mr. Tait^xxer. I want to be certain as to what the picture is with
regard to the Wasliington ConnnouM'ea'lth Federation which suc-
ceeded; that is, whether or not at the inception of that organization
it was heavily controlled by the Communist Party.
Mr. Dennett. No ; it was not. And, as a matter of fact, it was
quite anti-Communist at the very beginning.
Mr. Tavexxer. The original method used by the Communist Party
to become entrenched in the federation was through the various or-
ganizations which were affiliated with it.
Mr. Dexxett. Tliroiigh the process of building the organization
larger and bringing into affiliation organizations in which it did have
influence and ultimately getting top influence in the WCF.
400 COlVIMIINriST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I think that exphiins it.
You made reference to a convention that was being called. When
and where was tlie convention held? That is, the convention of the
Washington Commonwealth Federation.
Mr. Dennett. In the year 1936 it held two conventions. One was
in i^pril and another one was later in the year. The one in April was
concerned with several important questions. It was the largest con-
vention of any of the WCF conventions that I ever attended, and I
understood it was the largest convention ever held. It was in Everett,
Wash., in April 1936.
It must be remembered that 1936 was a Presidential campaign.
The political situation in the whole country was quite alive. Many
new people were rising in the political sphere. And, of course, the
Washington Commonwealth Federation was an open and ready in-
strument through which ambitious political persons could make their
first bid for public office and fame.
Many of them did so. Many young graduates of the university
did so. I have very little personal knowledge about them, and I wish
to make sure that you understand, and everyone else does, that I am
not referring to these persons as Communists. They are not. And I
make no inference of that kind. I simply recite the fact that here
was an organization which was capable of exerting a great deal of
political power, and it attracted all persons who had political ambi-
tions. As a matter of fact, there were some Republicans as wp>ll as
Democrats and Independents who beat a path to the door of the Wash-
ington Commonwealth Federation to obtain political endorsement.
Now this convention in 1936, in April, had before it several im-
portant policy questions. At that particular time the Communist
Party had to exercise its influence by indirection. The top leadership
of the federation were not Communists at that time.
The Communist Party was striving to obtain an endorsement of
that federation convention which would call for the organization of
either a farmer-labor party or a new independent political party. In
other words, our effort, speaking of the Communists, was to drive the
federation into making a completely new, independent, separate
political organization. However, our plans were dependent upon ap-
proval from tlie central committee of the Communist Party, And the
central committee of the Communist Party kept us dangling on the
end of a string for many, many weeks prior to the opening of this
convention.
The reason they kept us dangling on a string was that nationally
the Communist Party wanted to see organized and wanted to have a
part in organizing a new national organization which would be sepa-
rate from and inclependent from the Democratic Party or the Kepub-
lican Party. And it hoped to attract all persons known as liberals or
progressives to support and participate in such an organization. But
its chief difficulty was to obtain some national figure of great promi-
nence to lead the thing to give it the initiative and give it the original
sendolf that it needed to draw the strength necessary to win something
in the next election.
The party leadership felt that the person most capable of accom-
plishing that purpose and fulfilling that objective was the then Gov-
ernor of Minnesota. I think it is Minnesota. Yes. His name was
Floyd Olson. He was Governor there. And he was a Farmer-Labor
Governor there.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 401
The very designation lent itself to the spreading of a nationwide
farmer-labor party. And it was the original hope of the Communist
Party that through various forms of manipulation
It was the Olson from Minnesota. I am quite sure, thinking back
on it now, it was Floyd.
But be that as it may, it was the Governor Olson of Minnesota who
was Governor in 1936 as a Farmer-Labor Governor.
However, at the very last moment when we had the resolution all
ready to press before the convention, we finally received word that
this Governor Olson was not well enough to undertake the job of
organizing a new national farmer-labor party because of ill health,
and begged off from the responsibility. Nationally, we were unable
to find another figure of as much prominence whom we thought would
be capable of leading such a successful effort. Consequently, we had
to whip our party machinery into shape rather rapidly and change
our tactics right on the floor of the WCF convention, and reverse
ourselves in the process of debating the question.
Actually the resolutions committee had come in with a report in
which a majority had objected to going the independent route. But
I was one of the delegates who was in the minority who was leading
a fight for going the independent route. And in the process of starting
the debate we got the official word that it was a hopeless task, and we
had to withdraw that effort.
We made a last-minute switch in our strategy and tactics, and some
of those who had been fighting us so vigorously on the floor were com-
pletely dumfounded to find that we compromised — what appeared to
be a compromise — when we changed our policy during the course of
the debate on the resolution itself and withdrew our minority position.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you change your policy as a result of directions
from the Communist Party head in New York?
Mr. Dennett. Yes. And the district organizer of the party was
in the anteroom of the convention hall, sending word and direction to
those of us who were up near the microphone who had an opportunity
to command the microphone and the debate. And there were runners
running back and forth to us rather rapidly telling us what the latest
news of the party line was.
And the executive secretary of the Commonwealth Federation at
that time was a man by the name of Howard Costigan who became
somewhat alarmed to see such an obvious maneuver where between
15 and 20 different people were running back and forth passing mes-
sages to me and to otJiers up in the front from Rappaport advising
us what the official party policy was. He later on commented that he
could see the party line running all over the place, but he didn't know
what was in it.
Mr. Tavenner. "Was Howard Costigan a member of the Communist
Party at that time?
Mr. Dennett. Not at that time.
But that demonstration of power that we exercised in that conven-
tion was very convincing to him that if he wanted to remain as head
of that organization he would have to make his peace with us, which
he did before that summer was over.
Mr. Tavenner. And did he become a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Dennett. He did.
402 COMTiIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that
Mr. Howard Costigan has appeared before the committee and has
testified regarding some of the matters which have been mentioned
here, inchiding the fact that he did become a member of the Com-
munist Party at about the time indicated by this witness, and at a
later time, at approximately 1940, he left the Communist Party.
Mr, Dennett. I could substantiate that.
There was another matter which arose as a serious issue in that
convention, and it concerned a proposal for an initiative measure
which became known as the production-for-use initiative.
Alany people, because of the Communist Party influence in the
unemployed days, were quite concerned and alarmed over the problem
of unemployment, insecurity, possible impoverishment, et cetera. All
the consequences of economic dislocation. They had read many of
the so-called Utopian pieces of literature such as Bellamy's Looking
Backward and other documents of the kind. They had also read
Mr. Upton Sinclair's program in California. They were somewhat
acquainted with the propaganda of the Soviet Union, to the effect
that production-for-use was the solution to the problems of capitalist
lack of planning. In other words, planned economy.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Dennett, you testified that you received the party
line by courier, by runners from Rappaport. Do you have any idea
how Rappaport received it from headquarters of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Dennett. Yes. Sometimes he received it by telegraph. In
this particular instance, about this Governor Olson, he received that
by telegram.
Mr. Velde. Was there any secrecy involved, especially at that time ?
Mr. Dennett. No ; there was no secrecy in that communication. As
a matter of fact, they took parallel measures to see that somebody
in Governor Olson's staff also sent word to Howard Costigan directly.
He also received the word. So that there was parallel information.
At least we did make that concession to Costigan, that he would have
official information about it.
JNIr. Tavenner. Did the rank-and-file membership of the Washing-
ton Commonwealth Federation know of the Communist Party manipu-
lations which you have just described?
Mr. Dennett. I am quite sure that most of them did not, although
the behavior of many of the Democratic Party leaders at that con^
vention would lead me to believe that they suspected it, because they
fought us so bitterly and so hard.
Mr. Tavenner. Proceed, please.
Mr. Dennett. The story on the production-for-use initiative is
simply this:
Because there was such a popular demand for some change in the
economic situation to assure continued production and a cooperative
effort,. many people tried to translate an ideal of a cooperative com-
monwealth into some form of legislative effort. This resulted in
many conferences and the calling in of legal talent to try to draft a
measure which would be legal and which would satisfy the ambitions
of the people to have the so-called dream of a cooperative common-
Avealth organization.
Mr. Tavenner. Describe in a practical sense what production-for-
use meant?
COMMUlSriST ACTWITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 403
Mr. Dennett. I wish I could satisfy you completely on that point
because that is one of the problems we ran into in trying to draw up
this initiative measure.
We could never satisfy ourselves that we had it satisfactorily organ-
ized. However, the staff who worked on it worked long and hard and
finally produced a measure which was known as the production-for-
use initiative. It was ready for presentation to that convention.
However, some of us in the Communist Party, while we agreed that
such a measure was a good propaganda wea])on and felt that it was an
excellent means of popularizing the ideas which we understood and
claimed were the basis of the operation of the economy in the Soviet
Union, we were startled when we read the document and found that
jt sounded a little bit more like the Fascist corporate state that the
Italian leader Mussolini had established. We became so alarmed
about it, and were so perplexed that we asked a very world-famous
person, who happened to be a guest of the convention, what this
person thought about it.
The person to whom I refer is Anna Louise Strong, who had just
come from the Soviet Union, extended greetings to us, to the con-
vention, and otherwise gave a very enlightening report on her travels,
and won wide acclaim for that effort.
Mr. Tavenner. Did she, on the floor of the convention, address her-
self to the problem of production-for-use ?
Mr. Dennett. She did not. Not at that moment. She spoke only
in general terms about it, referring to it in a complimentary way and
hoping for success. But at that moment she did not know very much
about what was in that document.
However, we felt that she, coming from the Soviet Union with fresh
knowledge, might know quite a lot about it and might be able to assist
us in revising the document so that it would be possible to satisfy us
that it was, in fact, a step in the direction of a cooperative common-
wealth.
So she consented very graciously to take the document and Avork on
it overnight. She did exactly that. And we read it the next morn-
ing, and, much to our sui'prise, she had moved the emphasis in the
control even more in the direction of top control and less in the direc-
tion of allowing the members or the organizations to have anything
to say about it, which was just the reverse of the trend that we had
hoped for.
Consequently, we began to ask ourselves, that is, the Communists
asked themselves, if this is the end result of an effort to draw up an
initiative, maybe it would be smarter politically for us to see that this
measure dies aborning. Consequently, we came to the conclusion that
it was impossible to draw up an initiative measure which would be
adequate and which would answer our propaganda needs and' our
desires to satisfy us that it was in harmony with our program. So we
embarked upon a campaign in the course of the election
Mr. Tavenner. Was this a campaign to pass the proposed measure
or to defeat it ?
Mr. Dennett. Well, we all went out presumably to win support
to get the measure adopted. That is, it was an initiative measure and
it was before the voters. The voters were to cast a vote yes or no
on this initiative.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
404 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES m THE SEAT-PLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Dennett. My counsel asked me if I knew the number of it,
and I have foro-otten the exact number of that initiative at this mo-
ment. So I can't furnish that. I wish I could. It is a matter of of-
ficial record, however, and it can be verified if anyone is curious about
it.
The Communist Party found itself in that predicament. We were
committed to support the measure, but we were determined to bring
about its defeat. Consequently, we campaigned far and wide all over
the State of Washington, explaining the measure in such a way as to
convince the people that they should not vote for it.
At the same time we represented ourselves as campaigning for the
measure.
And we did it so successfully that the measure was defeated, it
we hadn't of done it I am afraid it would have been adopted.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Dennett. My counsel asked me who was the "we."
I am referring to the Communist Party in that instance.
The leaders of the Washington Commonwealth Federation were
terribly disturbed by the nature of the campaign that we were carry-
ing on,' that is, the Communists.
Mr. Tavenner. 1 should think it would be a rather confusing cam-
paign where the Communist Party, in order to defeat it, actually sup-
ported it.
Mr. Dennett. That is true. It was very confusing to everyone,
liven to us at times.
Mr. Tavenner. That is a very interesting thing. The Communist
Party, in order to defeat this measure, went out and conducted a state-
wide campaign in favor of it. But in order to accomplish its defeat,
if I understand you correctly, the Communist Party so represented
the issues that people would be bound to vote against it.
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Mr, ISIouLDER. I understood the situation to be that because of Com-
munist Party support of the measure, the public sentiment opposed
it.
Mr. Dennett. Not necessarily so, sir, because they didn't know that
we who were speaking were Communists. They thought we were
representatives of the Washington Commonwealth Federation.
Mr. INIgulder. Proceed.
Mr. Dennett. Tliere is triple deception in this maneuver, which
is rather hard to follow. I hope I have explained it.
Mr. Tavenner. I am afraid that the point may not be absolutely
clear in the record, and I want to be sure that it is clear:
If I understand you correctly, it was not the fact that the Com-
munist Party was supporting this measure that caused its defeat.
Mr. Dennett. You are correct, sir. That was not the reason. Ifc
was the way we, as disguised Communists, carried on the campaign,!
ostensibly for it, but, in fact, against it.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, your representations were of such
a character as to make known the weaknesses in the bill; and a person:
would actually think you were supporting it.
Mr. Dennett. True. You understand it quite clearly.
Mr. Tavenner. I think the bill was properly named when you usedl
the word "initiative" because that certainly is the use of initiative.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 405
T am glad to know it is Communist Party initiative. It is a very-
deceptive type of campaign.
Mr. Denivtett. Mr. Tavenner and Mr. Chairman, I would like to
make one observation about my testimony earlier this afternoon.
I get the feeling, and I have a fear that perhaps people listening
to this presentation might think that because of my testimony I was
the only figure who was active in the Washington Commonwealth
Federation carrying on this activity.
I hope that no one assumes that because I was one of a team. There
were several others.
Mr. Tavenner. Who composed the team?
Mr. Dennett. Well, I didn't mean to bring that up because I don't
like to have to do that. But I was fearful that people might think
I was too much of a braggart in this thing, and I don't mean to be
because it is all ancient history and I am simply trying to furnish
such information as I know of my own knowledge about that experi-
ence so that other people may comprehend it in full.
Mr. Ta\t5nner. I am sure, Mr. Dennett, that the committee, having
heard as many witnesses as it has on the subject of communism, recog-
nizes that it is teamwork that has enabled the Communist Party to
get where it is, rather than grandstand playing.
Who were the other members of the team ?
Mr, Dennett. Well, that takes me into a description of the district
bureau of the Communist Party in that particular period.
As I look back over it I might call it the golden age of the Com-
munist Party's efforts in the Northwest because it did at that time
enjoy, that is, the leaders of the Communist l^irty did enjoy a rela-
tionship among each other and among themselves, and in the organi-
zations to which each were members — they did enjoy a very full and
rich democratic experience in procedure.
This, I think, was due largely to the efforts of Mr. Morris Rappa-
port who was the district organizer whom I mentioned earlier, who
had, by his adroitness in calling the political moves, established him-
self in the eyes of the central committee of the Communist Party of
the United States as a person capable of directing the political activi-
ties in the Northwest without the need of daily supervision on the part
of national headquarters of the Communist Party. In other words,
they did accord him the recognition tliat comes of confidence that he
knew what he was doing and was capable of carrying it out.
And T am quite certain that the way he coordinated the efforts of
each of us in the district bureau at that time were so gratifying to
the central committee that most of the members of the central com-
mittee didn't dare to try to interfere with our efforts for fear that they
might be responsible for upsetting the applecart so to speak.
Now in that team were, first of all, Mr. Morris Rappaport, the
district organizer. His right-hand man, who was also the trade-union
secretary of the district, was a man known to me by the name of Henry
or Harry Jackson. I know that that is not his real name, but I do
not know what his real name was. That was his party name. That
is the only name I k]iew him by in this area.
Mr, Tavenner. How long was he in this area ?
Mr. Dennett. He came shortly after Morris Rappaport came.
Mr. Tavennt.r. Did he come from New York?
G2222— 55— pt. 2 3
406 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AEEA
Mr. Dennett. He did. His original home was San Francisco.
Mr. Tavenner. I am sure we know him.
Mr. Dennett. Mr. Jackson had his early training in the Marine
Workers Industrial Union organizing maritime workers. He came
here originally for that purpose, and then his assignment was switched
to that of trade-union secretary for the district in the Northwest.
I was one of his closest associates because I was footloose and free
and available to carry the Jimmy Higgins load that had to be carried
at that time. We were working daily and devoting all of our time
to that effort.
We had a few people who were prominent in the University of
Washington at that time who were active members of our district
bureau. One was Mr. Harold Ebey, E-b-e-y.
And another was Mr. Hugh DeLacy.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he at one time a Member of Congress ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, he is the same person who was called
as a witness before this committee at Dayton, Ohio, in September 1954,
and who refused to answer material questions on the ground that to
do so might tend to incriminate him.
Mr. Dennett. I mentioned Mr. DeLacy 's name with a great deal of
regret because I was a very close associate of Mr. DeLacy and I had
a great deal of respect for him, and he for me. It is only under the
compulsion of the subpena and the fact that I am testifying and I
have to testify when I mention his name. I do so with regret. I wish
the rules were such that it wasn't necessary because it is a source of
great embarrassment to me. But I feel that I owe a big obligation
to the men that I work for, and, under the rules as constituted by this
committee and the way it is o])erating, 1 have no choice in the matter.
I make my apologies to Mr. DeLacy for having to do this. I regret
it. But at the same time, in the long run, I don't think it is going
to hurt him, and I think it may do him some good. I hope so.
Others who were prominent in the district bureau were, of course,
Mr. Howard Costigan, Mr. Jess Fletcher, Mr. William K. Dobbins,
Mr. Karley Larsen.
JVIr. Tavenner. Let me make this suggestion to you.
If you know whether any of these persons whose names you have
mentioned, testified publicly before this or other committees and ac-
knowledged their Communist Party membership and a withdrawal
from the Communist Party, I think you should state it.
Mr. Dennett. I can state that about three persons whom I know.
1 Imow that Mr. Jess Fletcher separated from the Communist Party,
and he has testified in a number of instances. He began testifying
before the Can well committee when he was separated from the Com-
munist Party and from his union as a consequence of that fight. He
later testified before a number of Government agencies in a number
of court cases.
Mr. Howard Costigan testified before this committee. I read his
testimony in the proceedings which have been published by the com-
mittee.
Mr, Harold Ebey also appeared before the Canwell committee and
testified there. He is out of the Communist Party and has been for
quite a considerable period of time. At least, I believe, since this
period 1936, 1937, and 1938.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 407
Costigan is out of the Communist Party. He left shortly after
later political difficulties arose, which I will soon get into.
There may have been a few others who were in and out of the dis-
trict bureau. This district bureau was the leading body, the leading
organ in the district. It was the top body which had the top authority
to determine party policy in this area.
At one time I believe there were about 12 or 14 members of this
bureau. It may have been confined to nine. I have some recollection
that there were nine members officially on the bureau, but there were a
few who were candidates. That is, they were the next alternates to
become members in the event of any vacancy on the bureau so that we
could always have a reserve to fill any vacancies which might occur.
That district bureau covered the Northwest area which were the
States of, at that time, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Alaska.
Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand you to mean that it was that group
of individuals who took the leadership in the work within the Wash-
ington Commonwealth Federation ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes ; they did.
Mr. Kappaport could not directly participate in the work of the
Washington Commonwealth Federation because he was what was
generally called the face of the party. He was the official representa-
tive of the party. And the Washington Commonwealth Federation,
even though there were Communist leaders in it, it at no time accepted
an affiliation from the Communist Party, ancl it at no time would
acknowledge a Communist as a Communist in the organization unless
it be someone like Kappaport who had the authority to represent the
party as such.
By that I mean that if I presented myself to the Washington Com-
monwealth Federation to speak on any matter or to urge anything
before its body, I could not speak in the name of the Communist
Party even though other members of that executive board may know
that I was a member of the Communist Party. I could not speak as
a Communist. I could only speak as a member of that executive board,
and it was the presumption that I was representing the affiliate from
which I had been sent as a delegate.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, which of these
Communist Party bureau members became officials in the Washington
Commonwealth Federation.
Mr. Dennett. Mr. Costigan already was an official. He was the
executive secretary.
Mr. DeLacy became the president of the Washington Common-
wealth Federation.
I became the vice president of the Washington Commonwealth
Federation.
Mr. Harold Ebey served in some advisory capacity. I think that
he came from a teachers' union affiliate at that time.
Mr. Dobbins was a member there, but I do not recall the exact
relation that he held to obtain his position.
Mr. Karley Larsen was a leader there by virtue of the fact that
he was a leader in the Northern Washington District Council of the
International Woodworkers of America.
Mr. Tavenner. It would seem that the Communist Party had com-
jjlete control of the organization.
408 COMlVILrNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr, Dennett. We had another person there who is now deceased,
but I don't think that it gives a complete picture without mentioning
him, and that is Mr. William Pennock, because Bill Pennock was the
workhorse. Bill Pennock carried the load. He was a very efficient
man, one of the fastest shorthand artists that I ever knew, and was
capable of keeping up with the fast pace that Mr. Costigan set.
Mr. Pennock deserves honorable mention for the work that he did
in that setup.
Mr. Tavenner. What position did Pennock hold in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Dennett. He attended the bureau meetings, but I do not re-
member exactly whether he was a member of the bureau. But he
attended most of the bureau meetings by virtue of the fact that he
became the head of the pension union which was one of the big af-
filiates of the Washington Commonwealth Federation.
Mr. Tavenner. You have given a very full description of how the
Communist Party maneuvered to capture this organization.
Why was the Communist Party so interested in obtaining control
of the Washington Commonwealth Federation?
Mr. Dennett. Because we wanted to ultimately obtain political
power for the Communist Party in the United States of America.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. In the same manner, I assume, that you were at-
tempting to gain power for the Communist Party in every other
field of endeavor.
Mr. Dennett. Of course.
My counsel has suggested that I indicate the total membership of
the Washington Commonwealth Federation in that period.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Yes, I think you should.
Mr. Dennett. I am unable to give that in exact numbers, but I can
give you a proportionate situation which may indicate something of
value.
It was our estimate and the result of our study from the election
returns of the candidates that we endorsed and the propositions that
we supported
Mr. Tavenner. When you say "we" are you speaking of the Com-
munist Party or the Washington Commonwealth ?
Mr. Dennett. The Washington Commonwealth Federation.
It was our estimate that it was capable of influencing and obtain-
ing the vote of one-third of the members who voted in the Democratic
Party slate or side of the ticket. And because of that fact and be-
cause we were in a higher state of mobilization than the rest of the
Democratic Party, when primaries came along we could exercise a
more direct influence in the primaries than anybody else because our
members in the Washington Commonwealth Federation had a great-
er zeal and a greater devotion to carrying out their objectives than
the other Democrats who frequently relied upon making their de-
cisions in the general elections.
Mr. Moulder. What do you mean by other Democrats?
Mr. Dennett. Those who voted in the Democratic Party who were
not members of the Washington Commonwealth Federation through
affiliation.
Mr. Moulder. How many Communists would you estimate were
members of the Washington Commonwealth Federation ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 409
Mr. Dennett. The nearest I can give you by indication of that is
that in the period 1937-38, the high point of membership in the Com-
mmiist Party, as I recall the reports made to the district bureau by
the organization secretary, was in the neighborhood of 5,500 members
of the Communist Party in the Northwest, in the 3 States of Oregon,
Washington, and Idaho, and Alaska, the Territory of Alaska. Those
5,500 members of course, were scattered throughout all the other
organizations in the Northwest. And I am firmly of the belief that
'fully 90 to 95 percent of that were members of the Washington Com-
monwealth Federation through affiliations of one kind or another.
(At this point Kepresentative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Washington Commonwealth Federation
extend throughout the entire 12th district, or, that is, in the North-
west area? Or was it confined only to the State of Washington?
Mr. Dennett. It was confined to the State of Washington. How-
ever, there were some efl'orts made in the State of Oregon to develop
an Oregon Commonwealth Federation, but I have no direct knowdedge
of that, and I would be unqualified to give you any testimony about
it because I did not participate in it and I do not know the people
who did.
Mr. Velde (presiding). Did your district committee of the Com-
munist Party, however, have representatives from Alaska and from
Oregon ?
Mr. Dennett. No, there was no territorial representation like that.
The representatives of the district bureau of the Communist Party
were chosen because of their capability as political leaders, not because
of any particular area that they came from. And it was determined
largely by their ability to influence public opinion and to intervene
in the decision of public affairs.
Mr. Velde. Did the district bureau act for the 12th district of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, it did.
Mr. Velde. But were they all from the State of Washington ?
Mr. Dennett. That is true. I think perhaps it is necessary at this
point to clear up one little problem of organizational structure that
existed in the Communist Party at that time.
It was not based upon territory. Representatives of the higher
committees did not have to come from any particular territory. They
were chosen because of their availability and their influencing ability
to carry the party policy into the mass organizations or before the
public.
Mr. Velde. Were they actually chosen by the national committee
of the Communist Party.
Mr. Dennett. Not in this district they were not, no.
Mr. Velde. Just how were they chosen ?
Mr. Dennett. Well, that is another organizational problem of
interorganization of the Communist Party which is rather difficult
for persons not familiar with it to comprehend. But let me try to do
it as briefly as possible this way.
When I first came into the Communist Party the usual procedure
was something that went under the title of "Cooption." Cooption
meant that the district organizer could appoint anybody he wanted
to the district committee or to the district bureau and could call them
410 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
in to serve, and evervbody else had to accept such a person as being
a fullv qualified member of that body. In other words, it was a
handp'icked staff which represented the wishes of that particular
leader who held the authority at that time. That was the process
of cooption in the event of a vacancy. He could appoint someone
to fill that vacancy, and he did so. It was his responsibility to do so.
However, with the rise of Hitler Germany, the trials of the Reichs-
tag, an international leader by the name of Dimitrov acquired world ^
fame because, in his defense against the frameup which Goermg
tried to put over on him, he learned that the Communist tactics and
the Communist policies in Germany had turned the masses of German
workers against the Communist Party and had resulted or had cer-
tainly played a part in contributing to making it possible lor Hitler
Germany \o result with Hitler's ascension to power.
Therefore, Mr. Dimitrov, when offered asylum by the Soviet Gov-
ernment, immediately went to work for the Comintern, and, in that
capacity as leader of the Comintern, brought forth what was known
as a new line. And that new line called for introducing the practice
of democracy into the ranks of the Communist Party organization.
He urged and advised that the practice of cooption be abolished, and
that the higher committees be elected by a democratic process. And
he, in fact, insisted that that must be done in all countries where the
party was not illegal. . , , ,
Recognizing that it was not possible to hold conventions where the
party was illegal, and that applied especially to the United States,
when Mr. Rappaport came to this district he tried his best to follow
out the decisions which were laid down by the Communist Interna-
tional and the national headquarters of the Communist Party, and
that practice of electing the leadership was followed. However, at
the district convention there was always a nominating committee who
carefully screened the names of persons who were being proposed for
leadership or election to these committees, and, m doing so, succeeded
in accomplishing the original result, only satisfying ourselves that we
were practicing democracy. ,r t^ .^o
Mr. Velde. What year did that change take place, Mr. Dennett i
Mr. Dennett. Right around 1936.
Mr. Ta\t3Nner. So the matter of making nominations through a
committee was a mere matter of form.
(At this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to the
hearing room.) . i. n i i i •..
Mr Dennett. The district organizers still carefully looked it over
and still had a controlling influence there. But in this particular case
Mr. Rappaport exercised his influence not in any arbitrary way but m
a convincing way, because we all recognized that his broader experi-
ence and his tremendous capacity for work equipped him to give us
the benefit of better wisdom than we had.
Mr. Tavenner. Going back to the Washington Commonwealth
Federation, you were asked a question as to what the membership of
the Communist Party was in the district. Do you know what the
membership of the Communist Party was in the State of Washmgton
at that time? • ^^ c^. i. t
Mr. Dennett. Well, most of that membership was m the State ot
Washington. And I don't know the exact number, but I think it would
be quite safe to say that around 85 to 90 percent of it was in the State
of Washington.
I
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 411
Mr. Tavenner. How long did the Communist Party succeed in
bringing its influence to bear on political elections through this organ-
ization known as the Washington Commonwealth Federation ?
Mr. Dennett. Until the international situation became unstable in
about the j^ear 1938.
Mr. Ta\^nner. How did the international situation affect political
matters locally here in the State of Washington as far as the Commu-
nist Party was concerned ?
Mr. Dennett. Tlie Communist Party had as one of its principal
objectives and one of its chief propaganda weapons, which it used
upon other persons of political mindedness, that the Communist
program was a consistent program on a domestic policy and on foreign
policy, that our program was liberal domestically and liberal interna-
tionally. However, in 1938, after a long period of struggle and effort,
the Communist Party succeeded in prevailing upon many people to
accept the slogan of collective security as the proper policy to pursue in
foreign affairs. That, of course, was quite consistent with the policy
of the Soviet Union because it was the Soviet delegates to the League
of Nations who had continually agitated for a policy of collective
security.
I think it was some time in 1938 that the Italian Premier launched
his attack in Ethiopia, and while we were clamoring for collective
security to be applied to that situation, it wasn't too long afterwards
when the Soviet Union had a serious dispute with Finland, and hos-
tilities broke out and the Soviet Union smashed the Finnish Army and
the Finnish military installations.
We were confronted with the necessity of making an immediate
switch demanding nonintervention.
Mr. Tavenner. "WTiat do you mean by we?
Mr. Dennett. The Communist Party.
So our insistence upon nonintervention contradicted our prior in-
sistence upon collective security. This presented no end of trouble,
especially to those who had to meet the public and had to answer to
the public for the consistency of their program and policies from one
day to the next. It ultimately led to the disaffection of Mr. Howard
Costigan. And the chief reason that Mr. Costigan disaffected at that
time was because of his loyalty to Franklin D. Roosevelt as then Pres-
ident of the United States, who came out in bitter denunciation
against the Soviets for attacking Finland, which left him in the posi-
tion of having a consistent policy because he had complained bitterly
against Mussolini's march into Ethiopia. He had also been critical
01 the Japanese invasion of China. He had also been critical of each
military venture where one country had attempted to impose its will
upon another by military means.
So Costigan felt that he was on sounder ground to continue his
support of Franklin D. Roosevelt, and he did so with as much effort
as he dared, without bringing down the wrath of the Communist Party
on him at that particular moment. However, the Communist Party
sensed that he was beginning to disaffect, and we proceeded to isolate
him from evei^thing we could. I mean the Communists proceeded to
isolate Mr. Costigan.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this the period when the Communist Party
was crying from the rooftops that the President of the United States
was a warmonofer?
412 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Dennett. Yes, it was. I am a little bit fearful that if anyone
looks at the record very carefully they will find that I made a few
speeches on that subject myself.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, as a result of the international
situation the Communist Party had gotten itself into a position which
adversely affected its interests locally.
Mr. Dennett. That is very true.
Mr. Taa-enner. What was the result of that adverse effect upon
the Communist Party locally?
Mr. Dennett. The most damaging effect to the Communist Party
was that it shook the faith of many of those who were members of
the district bureau at that time. I must admit that I tried to present
the appearance myself of not losing faith in the integrity of the
Soviet foreign policy. However, I must also admit that there was
a little bit of deception in that for the reason that I could not com-
pletely justify it, no matter how hard I tried, and I found that Mr..
Costigan became very bitter about it. I found also that Mr. Ebey
had a few misgivings. Pie didn't express them at that time too shai-ply
because he is a very mild-mannered sort of person. But those of us
who were in the rough and tough political battles put on a case-hard-
ened outward appearance which was intended to inspire the ranks
to hold the line.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the final result?
Mr. Dennett. The final result was that various organizations affi-
liated to the Washington Commonwealth Federation found their
political conviction to be inconsistent with the official policy expressed
by disguised Communist leaders in the Washington Commonwealth
Federation. So that many of them began to disaffiliate and leave
the organization, so that it did not embrace the commanding minority
which it had previously had.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, your position of control in that
organization was weakened, if not virtually destroyed, by this dis-
affection that had arisen within the Communist Party ranks largely
as a result of international problems.
Mr. Dennett. That is vei-y true.
Those of us who presented what might be referred to as a case-
hardened outward appearance did so largely in the hope and faith
that our loyalty to the Soviet Union under those circumstances would
be rewarded by the Soviet Union remaining loyal and true to the
socialist ideals which all of us held.
However, at a later date, after the Second World War, just to make
the comment without going into detail at this moment, many began
to find out through their experience in the Army and military efforts,
and through persons who traveled abroad and came into contact
directly with the Kussian military effort — many became convinced
that there was a considerable difference between the democracy that
had been preached about in the Soviet Union and the actual practice
which they found.
Also there was a serious disillusionment when large numbers of
soldiers learned, to their dismay, that even during the war period
the Soviet Union had in labor camps very large numbers of persons
who were held in those camps as political prisoners, a policy which
we had been led to believe, through all the official propaganda, that
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 413
the Communist Party in the Soviet Union wouldn't possibly indulge
in such a practice, that only the capitalist countries would practice
such a heinous crime.
But it was a terrible shock and disillusionment when large numbers
of people found, out of their own direct knowledge, that these huge
forced labor camps did in fact exist and that people who were com-
mitted to them were committed to them for terms ranging from 25
years to life instead of the official propaganda which has been preached,
to the effect that no sentence was over 10 years in length in the Soviet
Union. And we found there was a great deal of difference between
fact and fancy.
(At this point Representative Harold H. Yelde left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Is the Washington Commonwealth Federation in
existence today ?
Mr. Dennett. It is not. It was liquidated by the Communist Party
leadership during the Second World War.
In my records there will be found some correspondence between
Hugh DeLacy and myself because I was a vice president of the fed-
eration, but I was in the military service at the time this disillusion
took place.
Mr. DeLacy had written me something about it, and I disagreed with
it. He had also written to me suggesting that since I was in the mili-
tary service maybe it would be better for me to give up my share of
stock which entitled me to be a member of the board of directors of
the New World, which was the official newspaper published under the
federation at that time.
I found occasion to disagree violently with him over the suggestion
for the reason that I felt that those who were in the armed services
should not be removed from their official positions because they were
in the armed services. I felt that they were more entitled to continue
their representation on the organization because they were in the
armed services.
AVe had an exchange of correspondence there which was quite acri-
monious at points, and I am amazed when I look back at it and see
how it developed.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I believe this is a satisfactory point
to suspend the examination of this witness.
Mr. JMouLDER. Yes, Mr. Dennett. We thank you for your patience
and the information which you have given the committee. We are en-
deavoring, whenever possible, to give you a rest so there will not be
this long stress upon you for a long period of time.
Mr. Dennett. I appreciate that. In my younger days I used to
have a marathon endurance, but I find I don't have it any more.
Mr. Moulder. Do you wish to call another witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lawrence Earl George.
Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn,
please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about
to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Mr. George. I do.
414 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE EAKL GEORGE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, PHILIP L. BURTON
Mr. Wheeler. Will the witness state his full name, please?
Mr. George. My name is Lawrence Earl George.
Mr. Wheeler. Where do you reside ?
Mr. George. Seattle, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Will counsel identify himself for the record, please ?
Mr. Burton. My name is Philip L. Burton. I am a Seattle attorney.
Mr. Wheeleb.. Mr. George, what is your occupation ?
Mr. George. I am a warehouseman, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. How long have you been a warehouseman ?
Mr. George. Oh, for 12, 15 years ; 12 years anyway.
Mr. Wheeler. Being a warehouseman, are you a member of any
union ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. Sir, upon advice of counsel, I will invoke my rights
and privileges under the first and fifth amenchnents of the Consti-
tution of the United States.
Mr. Moulder. I didn't hear your reply. Did you say you decline
to answer the question ?
Mr. George. Because of certain insinuations about any union, it
is necessary for me to invoke my rights under the first and fifth
amendments of the Constitution and decline to answer the question.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you held any positions in the union that we
are discussing ?
Mr. George. Again, sir, I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Is it not a fact that the warehousemen are members
of the International Longshoreman's and Warehousemen's Union?
I am not asking you if you are a member of the ILWU ; just a blanket
question.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. Yes ; that is a fact.
Mr. Wheeler, Are you a member of the International Longshore-
men's and Warehousemen's Union?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. Again, sir, I have to invoke my privileges under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you at any time during your residency in
Seattle been acquainted with a lady by the name of Barbara Hartle?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. Again, sir, I shall have to invoke my privileges under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Mrs. Hartle testified before tliis committee last June
that she knew you as a member of the waterfront section of the Com-
munist Party. Is that correct?
( The witness confers with his counsel. )
Mr. George. Again, Mr. Chairman, I have to invoke the privileges
granted me under the fifth amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Wheeler. Will you also invoke the privilege on all questions
relating to the waterfront section of the Communist Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. I shall have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment in connection with that.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 415
Mr. Wheeler. Were you an official of the union in 1951 ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. Again I have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment and decline to answer the question.
Mr. Wheeler. Did you sign a Taft-Hartley affidavit?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. I invoke my privileges under the fifth amendment and
decline to answer.
Mr. Wheeler. Is it not a fact that the Communist Party advised
members of the Communist Party to disassociate themselves from the
Communist Party and sign the Taft-Hartley affidavit ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr, George. I shall have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment to that.
Mr. Wheeler. Is it not a fact that the members of the Communist
Party remained loyal and in the discipline of the Communist Party
although they officially did resign?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. I will have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment as to that.
Mr. Moulder. Did I understand you to say that your birthplace
was here in Seattle ?
Mr. George. Sir, I didn't give my place of birth. I wasn't asked
that question.
Mr. Moulder. Where were you born ?
Mr. George. I was born in Denver, Colo.
Mr. Moulder. ^Vhen did you move to Seattle?
Mr. George. I came to Seattle after the First World War. I think
it was in 1918 or thereabouts.
Mr. Moulder. Have you resided in Seattle ever since ?
Mr. George. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Plave you ever heard of the Negro and National
Groups Commission of the Communist Party of King County?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. I shall have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment as to that, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. ]\Irs. Hartle in her testimony stated you were chair-
man of that group. Was she correct in this testimony ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. Again, sir, I will have to invoke my privileges under
the fifth amendment and decline to answer.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you familiar with an organization called the
Interracial Action Committee ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
IVIr. George. I will have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you a member of the Communist Party today,
Mr. George ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. George. I will have to invoke my privileges under the fifth
amendment and decline to answer that, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
Mr. Wheeler. Harriet Pierce.
416 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
(At this point Kepresentative Harold H. Velde returned to the
hearing room.)
Mr. Moulder. Do you represent Mrs. Pierce? Will you step up?
Mr. Trolson. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. I want to talk to him.
(Whereupon Mr. Trolson conferred with the chairman.)
Mr. Moulder. Call the witness again, please.
Mr. Wheeler. Harriet Pierce.
Mr. Moulder. Would you raise your right hand and be sworn.
Do 3^ou solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Pierce. I do.
Mr. Trolsok. May I make a statement before you begin to question
the witness?
Mr. Moulder. Yes ; you may.
Mr. Trolson. My name is Roy Trolson. I am a member of the
Board of Trustees of the Seattle Bar Association.
Mrs. Pierce has come to the bar association and rendered a state-
ment that she is unable to secure counsel because she has no funds for
that purpose. The president of the Bar Association has asked me to
represent Mrs. Pierce, and I want to make it clear that I am represent-
ing her without compensation and at the request of the Legal Aid
Bureau of the Seattle Bar Association.
Mr. INIouLDER. We certainly appreciate your position and wish to
say that you should be commended as an attorney when requested by
the Bar Association to appear and represent any person who has no
funds to employ counsel.
And certainly it should have no reflection, and doesn't have any
reflection, upon you whatsoever.
For a person who is unable to employ counsel, it is the duty of a
lawyer under those circumstances to comply with that request, and the
burden that has been placed upon you.
Mr. Trolson. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. HARRIET PIERCE, ACCOMPANIED BY HER
COUNSEL, ROY F. TROLSON
Mr. Wheeler. Will you state your full name, please ?
Mrs. Pierce. Mrs. Harriet Pierce.
Mr. Wheeler. Where do you presently reside ?
Mrs. Pierce. In Seattle.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you presently employed ?
Mrs. Pierce. Yes ; I am.
Mr. Wheeler. Where are you employed ?
Mrs. Pierce. I am employed at the Takoma Country and Golf Club.
Mr. Wheeler. Do you have any part-time employment other than
your present position?
Mrs. Pierce. No ; I do not.
Mr. Wheeler. Would you advise the committee of your occupa-
tional background prior to your present occupation ?
( The witness confers with her counsel. )
Mrs. Pierce. I wish to invoke the fifth amendment on this question.
Mr. Wheeler. On all prior occupation ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 417
Mrs. Pierce. Yes, sir ; that is on all prior occupation.
Mr. Wheeler. Isn't it a fact that you worked for the United States
Government at one time?
Mrs. Pierce. On this question, too, I wish to invoke the protection
of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Do you mean to say that your employment in the
United States Government may tend to incriminate you ?
Mrs. Pierce. I have already stated my answer, sir.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Moulder. If investigation, Mr. Wheeler, reveals the witness'
employment, then I suggest that you ask the question according to
what your investigation has revealed, the specific questions which she
can answer.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you ever been employed by the United States
Post Office Department ?
Mrs. Pierce. I decline to answer that question for the reasons pre-
viously stated, sir. And I would like to explain that I fear that
answering these questions may lead to other questions which might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Wheeler. Were you dismissed from this position because of
security reasons?
Mrs. Pierce. I decline to answer that question for the reasons pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you been a paid employee of tlie Civil Eights
Congress of the city of Seattle ?
Mrs. Pierce. I clecline to answer that question for the reasons pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Wheeler. Do you know Mrs. Barbara Hartle?
Mrs. Pierce. I decline to answer that question, sir, for the reasons
previously stated.
Mr. Wheeler. She testified that you were a member of the George-
town Club of the Communist Party, King County. Is that a state-
ment of fact on the part of Mrs. Hartle ?
Mrs. Pierce. I decline to answer, and invoke my protection under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wheeler. Were you active in any way with the Progressive
Party here in the State of Washington?
Mrs. Pierce. I decline to answer that for the reasons previously
stated, sir.
Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Chairman, I think it is quite obvious that we
are not going to get the information we desire from this witness.
I have no further questions.
Mr. Moulder. May I ask the witness where you were born ?
Mrs. Pierce. I was born in Martinsburg, W. Va.
Mr. Moulder. And when did you come to the State of Washington ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pierce. I believe it was in 1942 or possibly 1943. I am not
certain.
Mr. Moulder. Were you married at that time ?
Mrs. Pierce. No, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Did you come to Washington alone ?
Mrs. Pierce. Yes, sir.
418 COIMJVIUIS'IST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Moulder. Did you have employment when you arrived or did
you have to seek employment after you arrived ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pierce. On this question, sir, I wish to invoke my privilege
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, I fail to see how that could possibly
tend to incriminate her or lead to incrimination. I suggest that the
witness be directed to answer the question.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pierce. Sir, this is a question which I would like very much
to answer, and answer fully, but I feel that it might lead either to
other questions which might incriminate me or to a waiver of my right
to claim the protection of the fifth amendment, and I therefore do
claim protection of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder, Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs, Pierce. Again I claim the protection of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party ?
Mrs. Pierce. I claim the protection of the fifth amendment on
that question, too.
]\Ir. Moulder. Are you now employed ?
Mrs. Pierce. I have already answered that question.
Mr. Moulder. Then would you care to answer again ?
Mrs. Pierce. Well, I could answer it again the same as I did before.
I am employed now.
Mr. Moulder. Where are you now employed ?
Mrs. Pierce. At the Tacoma Country and Golf Club.
Mr. Moulder. How long have you been employed there ?
Mrs. Pierce. I decline to answer under the privilege of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Do you mean to say the length of time you have been
employed there would tend to incriminate you ? Is that your reason-
ing on that?
Mrs. Pierce. I have already stated my answer, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. No questions.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow morning at
9 o'clock.
( Wliereupon, at 4 : 50 p. m., the subcommittee was recessed, to be
reconvened at 9 a. m., Saturday, March 19, 1955.)
INVESTmATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
SEATTLE, WASH., AKEA
SATURDAY, MARCH 19, 1955
United States House of Eepresentatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Seattle, Wash.
PUBLIC HEARING
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to recess, at 9 : 30 a. m., in Room 402, County-City Building,
Seattle, Wash., Hon. Morgan M. Moulder (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder
(chairman) (appearance as noted) and Harold H. Velde.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and Wil-
liam A. Wheeler, staff investigator.
Mr. Velde. The subcommittee will be in order, and we will proceed,
Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to recall Mr. Eugene V. Dennett to
the stand, please.
TESTIMONY OF EUGENE VICTOR DENNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD— Resumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett, will you come forward, please.
When your testimony was suspended yesterday we were inquiring
into the activity of the Washington Commonwealth Federation. In
the course of your testimony on that subject no mention was made
of the Workers Alliance.
To what extent was the Workers Alliance affiliated with that
organization ?
Mr. Dennett. It was one of the principal affiliates in the early
days, and it had regular representatives on the Washington Common-
wealth Federation board. One of the most prominent of those was a
person by the name of Harry C. Armstrong, who was better known
as Army Armstrong. He later became a legislator, and I think he
was at one time the head of the Workers Alliance.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time he was head of the Workers Alliance
and active in the Washington Commonwealth Federation was he also
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. At first he was not. But the Workers Alliance, of
course, was one of the organizations in which the Communist Party
419
420 COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
■worked very actively, and ultimately Mr. Armstrong became a member
of the Communist Party. I knew him when he was a member of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he active in Communist Party affairs?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, he was quite active in the Communist Party
affairs for a short time. He later had differences with the party over
policy, and became too much of a Democrat to suit the Communists,
and came to a parting of the ways with the Communist Party.
Mr. Taat:nnePw Can you give us the names of any other individuals,
active in the work of the Washington Commonwealth Federation or
any of its component parts, who were known to you to be members of
the Communist Party during that time?
Mr. Dennett. Well, my random recollection is a little bit too unre-
liable to go on. I think that I mentioned all of the principal ones
yesterday with the exception of Mr. Armstrong, whom I have
explained this morning.
^Ir. Tavenner. During the period that the organizational work was
being done by the Communist Party within the Washington Com-
monw^ealth Federation was there in existence in the State of Washing-
ton an organization known as the Washington Pension Union?
Mr. Dennett. That is correct, there was. That was a organiza-
tion which came into existence principally because the Governor of
the State had ordered some cuts in the pension, or the assistance to the
old-age groups. It was prior to the organization of anything.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to the organization of what?
Mr. Dennett. Of the union, of the Old- Age Pension Union.
It seems as though there Avas an attempt to cut on the relief, and
some of the relief authorities thought that they could cut the benefits
to the elderly people and there would be little protest for it. But
Howard Costigan, being very alert to the political possibilities, spoke
about it on the radio and, in response to that speaking, received many,
many calls by telephone and by letter asking him to do something
about it. He didn't know what to do.
He came to the party of people and explained to us afterward that
he was perplexed but he was going to call a mass meeting and ask these
people to come and make their protests in public.
He did exactly that. The meeting was overwhelming successful;
far more elderly people arrived than he expected. The hall was
packed to overflowing, and he had to call more meetings to satisfy
their desire to express their protest. During the course of that,
Costigan, not knowing what else to do, suggested that they set up a
permanent committee to continue their protest against this form of
relief cut. The old-age people responded so vigorously that they
themselves determined that they must have a union. And they chose
the name of Old-Age Pension Union.
At first, I believe, Costigan was not an officer of it. As a matter of
fact, he felt that he had more than he could carry handling the work
of the Washington Commonwealth Federation. So he asked the
])arty people to find him some help to see if he could carry on this
extra Avork that needed to be done. And, through the efforts of Mr.
LoAvell Wakefield, they found a person by the name of William J.
Pennock who was a verv able man. And Bill Pennock assisted Cos-
tigan in all of his work when he was in the Washington Common-
wealth Federation.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 421
Later when the time came to organize the Old- Age Pension Union,
Pennock assisted Costigan in finding people to head up that organi-
zation.
(At this point Kepresentative Morgan M. Moulder entered the
hearing room and assumed the chair.)
Mr. Dennett. In the very beginning the original leaders who held
the original titles of president and vice president of the Old- Age
Pension Union were not members of the Communist Party. They
were chosen by these old-age pension people, knowing them to be
public-spirited persons, and I don't know whether it is proper to
identify those persons or not at this point.
Mr. Tavenner. Xo. The committee would not be interested in go-
ing into that phase of the matter.
You mentioned a person by the name of Lowell Wakefield. Will
you tell the committee what you know of his activities?
Mr. Dennett. Lowell Wakefield was a member of the Communist
Party. He did come from the East on his assignment by the central
committee to work in this district. However, after he had worked
here a comparatively short time he came into dispute with the suc-
ceeding leader who came, Mr. Morris Rappaport, and ultimately Mr.
Wakefield left the Communist Party and I believe that he has had
no connection with the Communist Party for a great many years.
Mr. Tavenner. The point you are making is that in its inception
this union, the Old- Age Pension Union, was not of a Communist
origin or of a Communist ciiaracter.
Mr. Dennett. No: it was not. But the Communist Party recog-
nized that the terrific response that Costigan received meant that
here was a potential group of people capable of doing enormous
amounts of political work.
Remember, please, their situation: They were retired; they had
ceased working daily on a job. Therefore, they had the leisure time
to do what they wanted to do in most instances or at least in many in-
stances. The result was that some of these people could go out and
peddle leaflets and knock on doors. They constituted an enormous
political strength. And the Communist Party conceived the idea that
these people certainly would be the most able people to carry on po-
litical programs if they could be won to support such a program.
So the Commmiist Party set about to do exactly that in the pension
union.
Among those who were urged to go into the pension union to work
vigorously was a person by the name of Thomas C. Rabbitt.
Tom Rabbitt became a very powerful and influential man in that
organization. He did so very largely because he succeeded in being
elected to the Washington State Legislature as a Democrat, and, in
the State legislature as a State senator, was able to embarrass the
governor and the administration on their promises to aid the elderly
people on the pension program. His eftorts were heralded as making
a real — well, he was considered to be a real political leader because he
had succeeded in a situation where it was vitally important.
My counsel reminds me that Mr, Rabbitt has been before this com-
mittee, and he appeared in your executive session last June,
Mr, Rabbitt found that there was an enormous amount of work to
be done in that organization, and he had to call for help. And he
built up a comparatively important machine with which he worked.
62222— 55— pt. 2 4
422 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that the Communist Party, upon
seeino- the great potentialities in this new organization, decided to do
somethincr about it. Tell the committee just what it did and the
methods ?t used to gain control of the Old- Age Pension Union.
Mr. Dennetf. It concentrated first at the top levels of the organiza-
tion It wanted to get strong leadership there capable of carrying
two important points: first, that they carry on a relentless struggle
for better and more welfare assistance to the aged people so as to
insure their loyalty and support among those members ; they wanted,
next, to be certain that a large body of people became ardent support-
ers and friends of the Soviet Union so that it would be possible to
defend the political policies of the Communist Party in that respect
and to give assistance to the Communist program m this area.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, as indicated by his testimony, the
knowledge of this witness is very great concerning the scientific fea-
tures of communism and how it operates in the Northwest.
Because of the limit of time, we have had to confine ourselves to
the high spots. I will ask, if we are to conclude his testimony today,
that ]vfr. Dennett confine his testimony chiefly to his own activities and
circumstances surrounding them ; otherwise we will be unable to com-
plete what we had planned today. ,
Mr. Moulder. Yes. As you say, it is very important testimony.
We are grateful to receive it. I believe any additional information
which he might wish to submit could be submitted in writing to the
committee at a later date. I mean after we have concluded our
hearings. . , . -n i 4.
Mr. Tavt.nner. Mr. Chairman, it is obvious we will have a great
deal of work ahead of us in connection with documentary information
which he has at hand, as well as to give this witness time to explain
fully the implications of his statements today.
Mr. Moulder. It may be possible when the hearings are held m Los
Angeles in June that additional hearings could be held here to com-
plefe the testimony of Mr. Dennett.
Mr. Tavenner. ^Certainly further consideration will have to be given
to that. . . „ .-, •-.
I wanted to make this explanation principally so the committee
would understand that I have asked the witness to confine his testi-
mony today principally to his own activities. I did not want the com-
mittee to feel that the witness was attempting to relate what he had
done alone as a matter of his own choice.
Mr. Dennett. Thank you. .
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Dennett can be subpenaed to appear m Cali-
fornia when hearings are held there; the subcommittee could resunie
hearings here at a later date if we feel it is necessary to secure his
additional information.
Mr. Tavenner. Continuing with the subject of the old-age pension,
were vou active in it in your individual capacity ?
Mr. Dennett. No ; I was not. I spoke before it on a number of
times on invitation of the leaders to indicate some labor support be-
cause I was representing the State CIO at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Tell us briefly to what extent was the Communist
Party successful in the accomplishment of the two purposes you stated
the Communists had in interesting the leadership of the old-age pen-
sion unit.
COMINIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 423
Mr. Dennett. As I indicated at the outset, the first leaders of the
pension union — president, vice president, and some of the other offi-
cers— were anti-Communist people. And it did not take too long
before they came into conflict with those Communists who were trying
to make certain that the organization carried out these purposes which
T have indicated.
I believe that the first president of the organization left it very
quickly. Later on another person took over as a president of the
organization, who was a member of the Communist Party, and he
remained a leader for quite a long time. Ultimately he got into con-
flict with the Communist Party, and the Communist Party did what
we call a hatchet job on him.
Mr. Tavenner, "Who was he ?
Mr. Denneit. A man by the name of N. P. Atkinson. And Atkin-
son was expelled from the party. And when he was expelled from the
party he was also pushed out of the pension union.
Mr. Ta\-enner. After Communist Party overtures to the leader-
ship of the union was any effort made to capture the rank and file ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes. There was a considerable effort made. A
person by the name of William J. Pennock, whom I have mentioned
iDefore, who is now deceased — Pennock was a very successful figure in
this w^ork because he was such a tireless worker.
(Representative Harold H. Velde left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Dennett. He worked day after day, every day, and had a very
pleasing personality and was a very successful man in convincing
the ordinary person that the program and policies they were pur-
suing were the best for the organization. And I think it should be
recognized that certainly those efforts of the organization to maintain
a standard of decency and comfort for public assistance for the elderly
people is something which should be recognized as proper. It is
something which should not be condemned because the Communists
were trying to use that as a basis for successfully planting its other
ideas in the ranks of the organization. And I hope no one will
condemn the elderly people for trying to improve their own economic
position, which they were trying to do in the pension union.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. How can organizations of this type, which have a
very fine purpose in view, be able to accomplish their ends without
permitting the Communist Party to take them over and subvert them
to the purposes of the Communist Party ?
What is the best defense? What defense can they have to the
Communist Party which is trying to manipulate them in the manner
you have described?
Mr. Dennett. My own experience leads me to the conclusion that
the soundest defense and the soundest practice which can be pursued
is that wherein we all insist upon the complete observance of the
fundamental principles in the Constitution of the United States and
the legal procedure of the court system in the United States, in which
w^e first insist that all persons shall be considered to be innocent until
proven guilty when charged with anything which appears to be a
violation of either the Constitution of the United States or the prin-
ciples of the organization that they belong to.
T say that advisedly because I have had a number of experiences,
personal ones, where I have been treated as a guilty person until
424 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
proven so — not in connection with Communist material either. And
I observed with a great deal of interest last night's television report
of Mr. Harry Cain's remarks on that very point.
JSIr. Cain comes from the State of Washington. Some of us knew
him rather well. And I might say that at one time he certainly im-
j^ressed the people very strongly in this State because of this precise
idea which he was expressing last night on TV.
And I cannot pass up the opportunity to remind all of us that it
is a fundamental ])rinciple of our form of Government, of our demo-
cratic representation system, that we honor and dignify the indi-
vidual as an individual for his own worth, and not completely subor-
dinate this individual to the purpose of a mass and make him a faceless
creature.
I think that each person is entitled to the individual dignity and the
recognition of his right as an individual. And when he combines in
an organization it is for the purpose of assisting in the further develop-
ment of these human beings as creatures that are entitled to treatment
as human beings.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. JNIouLDER. What is your next question, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Counsel is consulting the witness.
Mr. Dennett. Counsel is calling my attention to the nature of your
question asking what steps can be recommended, and he is trying to
bring me back to that point a little more directly, and I appreciate it.
I hope you will bear with us on it.
Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. Let me suggest this to you :
My question was not so much directed at w^hat you mentioned as it
is to this particular phase of the matter, that here is an organization
which had very proper purposes: It apparently had no desire to be
controlled or influenced by the Communist Party ; but the Communist
Party determined it was going to take it over.
Now my point is: How, from your experience in the party, could
this group have successfully resisted being taken over by the Com-
munist Party ?
(At this point Represent ative Harold H. Velde returned to the
hearing room.)
Mr. Dennett. I think there is no one single guaranty. I think it
requires a number of changes in our behavior and in our attitude in
the various democratic organizations. I mean by that democratic in
form ; I am not referring to a party as such.
In that respect, many people in the union to which I should belong
have asked me many times how could they guarantee that some un-
toward thing would not occur in the organization. And it has been
my recoimnendation to them that the only guarantee anyone has is that
he participate fully in the life of his own organization and not delegate
and not allow his own responsibilities to be passed on to somebody
else.
If you leave it to George, let George do it, you wake up some time
and find that George hasn't done it the way you would have preferred
to do it or the way you would have done it had you been there.
And it is my firm conviction that one of the most hazardous parts -
of our democratic process is the tendency of people to leave it to some-
body else to take care of their own responsibility.
COMjMUNIST activities in the SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 425
If a democracy is to work, if it is to be a democracy or continue to be
a democracy, it is essential that each participant, each member be a
particijDant. That is the best recommendation I can make.
Mr. Moulder. That is very true. In our investigations the com-
mittee has found many instances where the Communist Party leaders
have been able to infiltrate into, say, a local union in the eastern sec-
tion of this country because the membership did not attend the elec-
tions and did not vote and participate actively in the meetings. If
there were other means of voting than to be personally present, that
might be avoided.
Mr. Dennett. I favor referendum votes myself.
Mr. Ta^^nner. In other words, the point you are making is : There
is a very great responsibility on each individual in his own organiza-
tion regardless of the organization.
Mr. Dennett. I would add to that, sir, if I may, please, that it is
necessary that members do more than attend meetings. I mean they
must have some adequate conception of the purpose of their organi-
zation.
Just like in the conduct of the affairs of the Government of the
United States, I don't think it is suffiicent for persons to be elected
as Congressmen and then just sit there. I think they have got to know
what the Constitution of the United States provides, and I think they
liave to be the guardians to make certain that everybody abides by it,
and that they abide by it themselves and insist that their own members
abide by it.
I think that the question of a member just being a member of an
organization and just being a card-carrying member is not sufficient.
Likewise, it is not sufficient to have representatives of government just
be present. Being present isn't enough. They have to understand
what they are there for. And pursue their purpose of representing
their constituents.
I say that as a comparison because the two things are similar. There
is an identity.
Our greatest democratic practice occurs in the organizations which
are not directly associated with government as such.
Mr. Moulder. That applies, as you have said, to unions and organi-
zations social or otherwise, as well as the general election of the
United States where probably only 65 percent of the people go to the
])olls and vote.
Mr. Tavenner. A very simple way of expressing what you have
said is that people should be informed.
]Mr. Dennett. They must be informed.
And I am strictly opposed to secret negotiations, whether it occurs
between employers and unions, whether it occurs between heads of
organizations, or whether it occurs in international affairs. I think
that the only safeguard that Ave have that the rights of the people will
not be trespassed upon is when everything is out in the open.
I am willing to admit that until an agreement is arrived at, until
a conclusion is reached, it may be necessary to conduct the negotiations
or the conferences with a limited amount of access to public discus-
sion. That may be so. I am not prepared to say that everything must
be done in a goldfish bowl. But I am very insistent in my own con-
viction and in my own practices, at least for the past several years,
that, anything I do is going to be out in the open where the whole
426 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
world can take a look at it. If they don't like it they can say so. And
if that is the way they feel about it, fine. I'll step aside and retire.
But if they do approve it, let them go ahead.
Mr. Moulder. \Vlien discussing the Washington Commonwealth
Federation yesterday, did you give an estimate of 5,500 as being, in
your opinion, the total Communist Party membership in the State
of Washington or in this district ?
Mr. Dennett. I said at that time there were approximately 5,500
members at one time in 1 year. I think it was 1938.
Mr. Moulder. Have you any knowledge or information, whether it
be in the form of an opinion or from your experience, as to the total
Communist Party membership in this area at the present time?
Mr. Dennett. No. I have no adequate idea about that. I think
that it must be very small. Someone asked me the other day what I
thought it was, and I said, "Well, I think the ranks of the Communist
Party have been decimated by their own foolish behavior and by the
change in public attitude. I think that has resulted in them being
reduced to a mere handful, a shell of its former self."
Mr. Moulder. Then you would tell us now that you have no knowl-
edge or information of any communistic or Communist Party activity
in Seattle at this time ?
Mr. Dennett. No. We are coming to the point of my expulsion,
which occurred 7, nearly 8 years ago. So my experience and knowl-
edge would have to break at that point with respect to the Communist
Party itself.
Mr. Velde. I presume you are familiar generally with the testimony
Barbara Hartle gave here?
Mr. Dennett. I listened to it very carefully.
Mr. Velde. She brought Communist Party activities in this area
up to date as nearly as anyone possibly could in her situation.
Would you appraise her testimony as being true as to general mat-
ters concerning Communist activities here?
Mr. Dennett. In all fairness to her and in all fairness to the per-
sons that she mentioned, I would have to say that I think Barbara
Hartle was her real self when she was here. She appeared to me to
be exactly the same as the person I knew many years before. She
was very deliberate and methodical. She always had been. And I
think that she gave as accurate an account as she could possibly do. I
marvel at the ability that she displayed in doing it, the names that
she mentioned.
I have tried to explain to my personal friends — they have asked me
about it ; how could a person name so many people as she did ? I can
only say that Barbara was in a position where she had access to those
records. It was part of her duty to handle records of the membership.
Therefore, she would be required to know those things.
People have asked me, "Well, do you know the same people that she
knew?" And I have had to answer, "I certainly knew most of those
people."
But I am not in a position where I could say that, of my own knowl-
edge, I knew those persons as members of the Communist Party.
I knew practically all of those persons in some capacity or another,
but in very few instances is it possible for me to say, of my own knowl-
edge, that I knew such and such a person to be a member of the Com-
munist Party.
COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 427
And that was a very important distinction for me to make.
But I must say that it is my considered judgment that Barbara
Hartle gave very valid and very accurate information.
Mr. Velde. I certainly thank you for that, Mr. Dennett. That was
my impression, too. Not being in a position to know as much about it
as either of you I did get the impression that she told a very valid
story.
Mr. Dennett. I am sure she was accurate.
Mr. Velde. I appreciate your verification of her story as to the ex-
tent of the Communist Party in this area.
Another thing I would like to get cleared up before we go further,
Mr. Counsel and Mr. Chairman, is a matter of your identification of
Harry Lundeberg as having attended fraction meetings. I think you
probably are as anxious to get that cleared up as we are. We know
that Mr. Lundeberg has been a very faithful anti-Communist for a
long time.
Would you like to make further comment on that ?
Mr. Dennett. I didn't expect that that would come up, and I was
quite surprised at the furor it has created. I had no idea at the time
that I mentioned this that it was of such importance or that such im-
portance would be made of it.
I think perhaps it requires that I give you a little bit more detail
of how I had such knowledge so that you may judge for yourselves as
to the accuracy or validity of what I had to say.
Mr. Velde. Actually, of course, back in those days about which you
were testifying there was nothing seriously wrong in the minds of
most American people with attending fraction meetings of the Com-
munist Party. So I agree with you. I don't see any reason for all
the furor. But I thought possibly you would like to clear it up.
Mr. Dennett. I certainly would, sir. Thank you for asking me.
The first I heard of the furor, a friend of mine called me on the
phone last night and asked me if I had read the morning paper wliich
carried the story of Mr. Lundeberg's denial. I said I had not. So he
read it to me, and he asked me what I had to say about it then. Some
of my personal friends did. And I had to remind him, just as I just
stated to you, that I had no idea it was going to have that much
importance attached to it.
But let me give you the facts as it occurred.
You will recall in my testimony I mentioned going into the Inland-
boatmen's Union of the Pacific, what was then the Ferry Boatmen's
Union. It was in 1936— Well, it was in 1935, the end of 1935 when the
first strike occurred against an arbitration award.
At that time the Maritime Federation of the Pacific had been al-
ready organized. Mr. Lundeberg was the president of it. Their
headquarters were here in Seattle. He had an office here in a build-
ing close to the Pioneer Square. I believe it is properly called Pio-
neer Place. ]\Ir. Lundeberg held an office there as the president of
the federation, and his first and able assistant was Mr. Ernest Fox
whom I have mentioned before.
AVlien I w^as elected a delegate to represent the crew of the ship
that I was working on, to attend our first strike meeting, on my way
to that meeting I stopped at the office of the president of the Mari-
time Federation of the Pacific, Mr. Harry Lundeberg, and asked him
428 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
what lie thought of the situation that I found myself in; namely,
elected as a delegate, representing an organization which I knew
practically nothing about. And I asked him further what advice he
would give me.
]\Ir. Lundeberg was very gracious to me, and advised me that the
"tule" sailors — by which he referred to our Sound freight-boat men
because he didn't consider us to be genuine sailors at all because we
didn't get outside into deep water ; we were always here in the rivers
or the harbors, and he called us "tule" sailors.
And he said, "The first thing you have got to do is get rid of your
finky leaders."
And I asked him on what basis he made such a statement.
And he said, "You talk to Ernie. Ernie can tell you the whole
story, and I will O. K. and vouch for it."
So I asked Ernest Fox a little bit more about it. And Ernie ex-
plained to me that the maritime leaders at that time had a great
hatred for the leaders of the then ferry boatmen's union because those
leaders of the ferry boatmen's union had not gone along with the
general strike plans in San Francisco in 1934. And Mr. Lundeberg
was one of the principal supporters of those strike plans at that
time.
As a result of Mr. Lundeberg's attitude at that time, the Commu-
nist Party had the utmost confidence in his integrity and in his lead-
ership. And Mr. Fox, Ernest Fox, informed me that Lundeberg had
attended fraction meetings, taught fraction meetings where he had
met with 1 or 2 party leaders to outline the policy and program to be
followed.
Mr. Velde. When you say "party leaders" are you referring to the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. That is right ; I am referring to Communist Party
leaders.
But Mr. Fox also warned me at that time that he had a few mis-
givings about where Mr, Lundeberg was going because Mr. Lundeberg
had already begun to show evidence that he was beginning to have
differences with the party and that he was resisting attending any
more fraction meetings at a very early date.
So it is quite true that Mr. Lundeberg was incensed. He didn't like
the Communist Party.
I simply mention in passing, at the outset, that he had been brought
into a fraction meeting, and it was common knowledge.
Mr. Moulder. In other words, he had been brought into contact with
the Communist Party leaders as a result of the work he was perform-
ing but not in the capacity of being a Communist himself ? Is that
what you are saying ?
Mr. Dennett. That is true. Even the most ardent anti-Commu-
nist can be drawn into Communist activities.
Mr. Moulder. Do you mean drawn into contact with Communists?
Mr. Dennett. Yes.
My counsel cautions me to be certain that you understand I at no
time accused Mr. Harry Lundeberg of being a Connnunist.
Mr. Velde. I think that is a matter of record. In fact, you have
said everything favorable to Mr. Lundeberg's record. But I suppose
it might be presumed that if you and another Communist Party leader
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 429
had a conference with Mr. Liindeberg some time that that would be a
meeting such as you mentioned in your testimony yesterday, or could
be considered a fraction meeting ; could it not ?
Mr. Dennett, No; that would not be regarded as a top fraction
meeting. A top fraction meeting would be only a meeting where the
leaders of an organization who were members of the Communist Party
met either with themselves or with some official of the Communist
Party. And in Mr. Lundeberg's case
Mr. Velde. Is that the type of meeting to which you referred when
you said that you had general knowledge, or it was common knowledge
that Mr. Lundeberg attended top fraction meetings ?
Mr. Dennett. True.
Mr. Tavenner. JNIy recollection of your testimony was that you
made it clear Mr. Lundeberg was not a member of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Dennett. I thought so ; I meant to, certainly.
Mr. Tavenner. You meant to, and if there is any question about
your testimony on that point I understand you now do make it clear
that you did not intend, and that you did not characterize Mr. Lunde-
berg as a member of the Communist Party. Am I correct in that?
Mr. Dennett. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. And your only information about his attendance at
a so-called fraction meeting was the information given to you by his
assistant, Mr, Fox ?
Mr. Dennett. And I might say, for verification, that the very line
which Mr. Lundeberg had urged upon me to follow was exactly the
line which the leaders of the Communist Party gave me at that time
also; namely, attack your leaders, get rid of them.
Mr. Tavenner. We were discussing the activity of the Communist
Party within the Old-Age Pension Union. Will you tell the com-
mittee, please, whether 3'ou can at this time recall the names of other
persons active in that organization who were known to you to be
members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. My own knowledge doesn't extend beyond the top
leaders of that organization, which I have already mentioned.
Mr. Tav-enner. That brings us to the period you described yesterday
when the Washington Commonwealth Federation was being dissolved.
My recollection is you indicated that it was dissolved at the instance of
the Communist Party. Am I correct in that ?
Mr. Dennett. It did that during the Second World War when I
was in the military service. I only know of that from correspondence
and what I read in the newspapers.
Mr. Tavenner. You also told us that the component parts of the
Washington Commonwealth Federation began to pull away from
that organization.
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the reason for that ?
Mr. Dennett. The main reason was the conflicting international
policies.
You will recall that in that historical period there were rapid
changes taking place.
Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to return to the point where we broke
off testimony on that subject.
430 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
What became your activity in the field, in this general field upon the
weakening of the federation as a result of the change in international
problems you described yesterday ?
Mr. Dennett. With the rise of the CIO following the split in the
labor movement I was elected to be the secretary of the Seattle CIO
Council, and subsequently became the executive secretary of the Wash-
ington State CIO Council.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Can you give us dates, please ?
Mr. Dennett. In 1937 the American Federation of Labor started
expelling from its ranks those unions which had advocated the indus-
trial form of organization. I was in a union which did advocate the
industrial form of organization, but we were not one of those that
attracted primary interest. Therefore, they did not expel our union
right away. They never did expel it in fact. However, since we were
supporting the industrial form of organization, I advocated that our
organization be among the first to swing to the CIO. That was the
Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific.
Subsequently, a referendum vote was held and the membership
voted overwhelmingly to withdraw from the American Federation of
Labor and affiliate with the CIO.
Being one of the most regular representatives of the organization
among outside affiliates, I was selected and elected by the members of
these unions to represent what was first called the Seattle Unity
Council, in 1937. In that year we had affiliated to that council both
CIO and A. F. of L. organizations and unaffiliated organizations.
To make a long story short, I could say that my activities there
were transferred to a larger field when I became the secretary of the
State CIO council, which was founded in 1938. And history will
confirm that the first convention of the CIO was also held that year
in Atlantic City.
I was a delegate to that convention, and there I came in contact
with the national leadership of the CIO unions, and with the national
leaders in the CIO unions who were known to me as Communists.
Do you wish me to go into that now ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, briefly.
Mr. Dennett. One of the first instructions that I received in that
matter was from a man by the name of Eoy Hudson who was the
national — well, he objected to being called the labor expert in the cen-
tral committee of the Communist Party. However, he usually had
the duty of following the assignments of the respective Communist
members.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment.
Mr. Chairman, you will probably recall that we had Roy Hudson as
a witness in our California hearings in December of 1953, but he re-
fused to give this committee any material information.
Mr. Denneit, Well, he gave me some instructions when I went to a
national convention, and his instruction to me v/as very brief. He
said, "Any time you need to settle a question and you are in doubt,
just see Lee Pressman."
Mr. Ta\tsnner. Lee Pressman?
Mr. Dennett. Lee Pressman.
I did try to do that, but my experience with Lee Pressman was
highly unsatisfactory, and I came back to one of the district bureau
COIVEMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 431
meetings and reported the unsatisfactory nature of my relations
with him, and the district organizer instructed me to destroy the
report which I had brought back.
I had brought back a somewhat detailed report of my unsatisfactory
experiences with him, and the bureau listened with considerable
astonishment at my impressions of how unsatisfactory this situation
was. That was from the first convention. And after that, after they
had instructed me to destroy the records, they also instructed me to
not talk about it with anyone because they feared it might undermine
the prestige of such an important person as Mr. Lee Pressman.
Mr. Velde. During what period of time did you know Mr. Press-
man ?
Mr. Dennett. That was in 1938.
Mr. Velde. At that time he was in the CIO. He had left the Gov-
ernment, as I understand it.
Mr. Dennett. He was the general counsel of the CIO, and was
John L. Lewis' righthand man.
]\lr. Velde. I do not recall the date of Mr. Pressman's testimony.
Was it in 1949?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; in 1949 or early 1950 we had him as a witness
before our committee and interrogated him on his connection with the
CIO at that particular time.
Mr. Velde. Did you know Lee Pressman as a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. I didn't know that personally. I was just under the
instruction — I asked Koy Hudson who I should see in the event I got
crossed up and didn't know what policy to pursue or anything, and he
said, "See Lee Pressman. Do what he says."
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is a matter which we should
follow through. But, not knowing the character of the experience
this witness had with Mr. Pressman, I believe it is a matter we should
investigate fully before attempting to further examine the witness on
the subject.
Mr. Moulder. Very well.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Do you have documentary evidence of any char-
acter on that incident ?
Mr. Dennett. I can't be sure whether I have or not. I don'c
recall all the things that I have in my files.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Proceed, please.
Mr. Dennett. Well, I came in contact with many other leaders in
the national CIO. I used to have the habit of attending the national
CIO executive board meetings whenever the convention was over.
There had been an election of new officials at the close of the conven-
tion, and I was usually there in company with the president of the
Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific, who became a member of the
executive board. And he usually asked me to come along with him.
xind it has always been my habit to take rather copious notes. As
a matter of fact, most people screamed to high heaven because the
notes I take are a little bit too full and too elaborate. I do that for
my own benefit because I try not to rely solely on memory. I have
found it very profitable in my own experience to have my full memo-
randa at hand when I am called upon to testify.
And in this testimony here I am testifying almost completely from
memory, but I assure you that I have plenty of memoranda and data
432 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
wliicli cannot only substantiate what I have been testifying, but enrich
it very, very much.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat further information can you give us as to the
Communist Party membership of individuals in this new field in which
you were engaged ?
Mr. Dennett. Well, of course, one of our principal centers of interest
was the International Woodworkers of America. And there, of course,
it became my responsibility to become well acquainted with the top
leadership in the International Woodworkers of America. And I
think that many people have made the accusation but probably few
people know of their own knowledge such as I do, that practically all
of the top leaders were, with a few exceptions, members of the Com-
munist Party. And that began with Mr. Harold J. Pritchett.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name ?
Mr. Dennett. P-r-i-t-c-h-e-t-t.
Mr. Harold Pritchett was a very able and outstanding man from the
lumber industry.
Mr. Tavenner. Was was his official title ?
Mr. Dennett. He was the president,
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is the period or the date ?
Mr. Dennett. 1938.
He was a Canadian and was barred from reentry into the United
States shortly afterward, and has been unable — he was at that time
unable to continue his functions as president, and had to give up the
office of president.
We were quite disappointed that that occurred. We tried every
way we knew to insure that he could continue to serve in that capacity.
However, we had to be satisfied with allowing another member who
was a vice president to take his position. This was Mr. O. M. Orton,
0-r-t-o-n, better known to us as Mickey Orton. He was the vice pres-
ident who took oxev when Mr. Pritchett had to give up the office.
The office staff — I mean the girls who worked in the office were
virtually cleared by the Communist Party before they secured their
employment in the office. The girl who was in charge at that office — •
the name I knew her by-
Mr. Tavenner. You said virtually cleared ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Does that mean that the worker you have in mind
must have been a member of the Communist Party ? In other words,
we do not want you to give us the name of a person unless you have
evidence of actual Communist Party membership.
Mr. Dennett. I will not name anyone unless that person was a
member of the Communist Party, according to my knowledge. Well,
the girl who was looked upon as the office manager — I don't recall the
exact title she had — but her name was Gladys Field, F-i-e-1-d. And
all the stenographers and bookkeepers who were employed by the
organization had to meet her approval before they could be employed
in that office. And her approval was based upon whether or not the
person would be friendly or hostile to the Communist Party, as well
as being, of course, efficient and able to do the job. She was an ex-
ceedingly efficient girl herself, and did a splendid job as an office
manager. She would be a credit to any office so far as her office work
is concerned, and she was a credit to that organization. She had as
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 433
one of her able assistants a girl by the name of Helen Sobeleski. I am
not sure that I can spell that. It is a Polish name.
Well along in that period Mr. Karley Larsen came into prominence
in the Woodworkers.
Mr. Tavenner. To what union does this testimony relate concern-
ing officials and employees ?
Mr. Dennett. The International Woodworkers of America.
Another person I knew was Nat Honig, H-o-n-i-g.
Nat Honig was brought into the district by Morris Rappaport
to become an agitprop director. I knew Mr. Honig quite well, and
I sympathized with the task that he had. He didn't last very long
in that either. He soon found himself as editor of the Woodworkers'
paper, the International Woodworkers of America's paper. And I
had occasion to attempt to get him to carry out the party line, and I
was amazed to find a man who was officially holding a position of
district agitprop director while he was editor of that paper, and yet,
when the May Day issue of that paper came out there wasn't one single
mention of the fact that ]May Day was the historical day to be com-
memorated for the 8-hour day in America and was heralded through-
out the world as laborers' clay.
Mr. Honig explained it away, that he didn't think it was appropriate
to do it.
I went to Mr. Rappaport complaining, "What kind of a district
agitprop is this man anyway?"
And Rappaport had quite a session with Honig, and shortly after
that Mr. Honig began to have some disailection from the party and the
party policy, and I believe he appeared before the Canwell committee
shortly afterward and gave voluminous testimony about the Commu-
nist Party. I have not read his testimony. I do not know how valid
it is. I couldn't confinn or deny what he said. I don't know.
Mr. Velde. "Wliat was the approximate time ?
Mr. Dennett. That was in that period 1939, 1 believe ; 1939 or 1940
when that happened.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall any other individuals connected with
the International Woodworkers of America who were members of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. I have a little difficulty thinking of any others at the
moment in that particular union.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee had before it at Albany, N. Y., in
July 1953, a Canadian by the name of Patrick Walsh who was con-
nected with that organization in the western part of Canada during
one period of time and who later became very prominent in the Cana-
dian seamen's union strike in 1949.
Did you become acquainted with Patrick Walsh?
Mr. Dennett. No; I never knew him.
IVIr. Moulder. The committee will stand recessed for 5 minutes.
(Wliereupon, a short recess was taken.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.
Mr. Ta^-enner. Mr. Dennett, you were giving us the names of per-
sons known to you to be members of the Communist Party within the
field of labor at the time that you were a member of the CIO council.
Mr. Denneit. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, please?
434 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Dennett. Well, of course, I think I mentioned Mr. Hugh
DeLacy before. He was from the teachers union. And, of course,
there was one of his associates, a man by the name of Harold Eby.
They were the only ones that I knew directly in the Communist Party,
in the teachers union, from the university.
There was another person by the name of Victor Hicks who was
quite well known to me who was in the other teachers union. There
were two teachers' unions, locals here. One applied to the public
schools, and one applied to the university. Victor Hicks was in the
one that applied to the public schools, although I don't believe he was a
public-school teacher himself. But he had taught in one of those Gov-
ernment assistance programs. I forget which one it was. There was
some kind of an educational program that was conducted in the de-
pression days that Mr. Hicks was associated with, and he was the
principal one. In fact, he was responsible for nominating me to
the position of secretary of the council in the first CIO council in
Seattle.
Of course, I knew Mr. Jess Fletcher in the Building Service Em-
ployees International Union, which was an A. F. of L. union, not one
of the CIO unions.
In the Longshoremen's Union ^ I knew Mr. Burt Nelson, B-u-r-t
N-e-1-s-o-n.
I knew these people as members of the Communist Party, and they
were the leaders with whom I dealt most frequently in dealing with
union affairs and with party affairs.
Mr. Moulder. When naming a person, if possible, identify him in
some way so he will not be confused with any person who may have
a similar name.
Mr. Dennett. Burt was a longshoreman. He worked as a long-
shoreman on the Seattle waterfront.
George Bailey was a longshoreman known to me first in Raymond,
Wash. Later I knew him on the Seattle waterfront.
Mr. Tavenner. How does he spell his name ?
Mr. Dennett. I believe it was B-a-i-1-e-y.
In the early days of the organization of the warehousemen's local
of the International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union the
two principal officers of the organization were very well known to
me as members of the Communist Party. However, they frequently
did not comply with the party policy, and we had frequent difficulty
trying to get them to comply with it. And I believe that they have both
since left the Communist Party. I make that by way of statement to
be certain that there is no misapprehension as to my knowledge about
tiem. One was Mr. John Stevens, better known as Johnny. Another
one was Adrian Lawrence, A-d-r-i-a-n L-a-w-r-e-n-c-e.
In the Marine Firemen's Union,- which was not in the CIO, but it
was a waterfront union with which I was closely associated, was Mr.
Walter Stack, S-t-a-c-k, who has previously been mentioned, and a
person by the name of George Flood. Now I hope no one will mistake
him for another individual who is very prominent as a lawyer. I am
not speaking of the lawyer. It is not the lawyer at all, because he is
' This is a reference to the International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union.
* This is a reference to Marine Firemen, Oilers, Watertenders and Wipers Association
Pacific Coast.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 435
a well known leader of the Kepublican Party, and I am sure that no
one will confuse him.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Dennett. My counsel advises me that that George Flood is
deceased. I was unaware of it.
The George Flood of whom I am speaking was a sort of hunchback
fellow who was a marine fireman.
At an earlier period I knew a group of people in the Boeing union,
the machinists union, who were known to me as members of the
Communist Party. That came about w^hen one of the organizers of
the United Automobile Workers of America came into Seattle wanting
to swing the affiliation from the machinists union to the United Auto-
mobile Workers. That national leader was a man by the name of
Wyndham Mortimer, W-y-n-d-h-a-m M-o-r-t-i-m-e-r. He was an
organizer. At that time he was stationed in California. He was
quite anxious to bring about the change in affiliation of the Boeing
workers because he knew that the employment at that plant would
increase, and had hoped that, by winning that group of workers, they
would add considerable prestige and strength to the United Automo-
bile Workers aircraft division. He had been active in a big plant.
1 think it was the Lockheed plant in California at that time.
Wlien he came here he conferred with two persons known to me very
well, a man by the name of Hugo Lundquist, L-u-n-d-q-u-i-s-t, and
Barney Bader, B-a-d-e-r. They were at that time the top leaders of
the aeronautical workers union, and they became known to me through
Mr. Mortimer as members of the Communist Party. And they com-
pletely disregarded my counsel which was that they were embarked
on a foolhardy effort and that we disagreed with any attempt at
jurisdictional rating. Our policy here was strictly opposed to it.
However, Mortimer was operating under authority of the top appa-
ratus of the party, namely, the central committee in New York City.
And he completely disregarded any advice or counsel which was
offered by the district bureau or the district leaders of the Communist
Party in this area.
It was our policy to not disturb the existing unions to change affili-
ation. To us that was ridiculous and had no point of value. Our
concern was to not have our members upset or disturbed in those
organizations.
Mr. Tavenner. It may be of importance for us to know the year in
which this incident occurred.
Mr. Dennett, I would have to consult my records, but I can assure
you I have records on that. I have extensive correspondence with Mr.
Mortimer on that subject.
Mr. Tavenner. That will be satisfactory.
Mr. Velde. Is the Walter Stack, to whom you referred, the same
Walter Stack who was convicted of violation of the Smith Act?
Mr. Dennett. I don't know what his violation is, but I am sure he is
the man who was very prominent in the marine firemen's union over a
great many years. He came from here when I knew him.
Mr. Velde. I feel certain that it is one and the same person. I
noted in the newspaper the other day that his appeal was turned
down by the United States circuit court of appeals.
Mr. Dennett. In the national conventions of the CIO, after my
first experience, which was highly unsatisfactory, with Mr. Lee Press-
436 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
man, I complained so bitterly when I came back to the district that
the next convention I went to I was instructed before I left that I
should work through Reid Eobinson, who was president of the Inter-
national Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers of America at
that time. Mr. Eobinson proved to be a very cooperative man and
readily discussed party affairs with me. That was in 1939.
Mr. Tamsnner. You say you were given instructions to work
through Eobinson, Was that an instruction from your union as such,
or was it an instruction from the Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. That was from the Communist Party.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Dennett. My counsel thinks that I have not sufficiently iden-
tified Mr. I^ee Pressman. He was at the time I knew him general
counsel of the CIO.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, please.
Mr. Dennett. My relations with Mr. Eeid Robinson were quite
satisfactory except "that at a little bit later date, when I was under
sharp attack because of the growing split between left and right
wings in the State CIO in this State, I tried to get Mr. Eeid Eobinson
to come to this State to try to pacify the situation, and he was fearful
of doing so for fear he would get into more complications than he
could solve. So he deserted me when I needed help.
Earlier, of course, I knew Ferdinand Smith from the National
Maritime Union of America. I believe he has been deported from
the United States.
Mr. Tavenner. That is correct.
Mr. Dennett. It is the same person. I had known him over a
period of several years.
I also came to know the president of the officeworkers union at that
time. That was the United Office and Professional Workers of Amer-
ica, Mr. Lewis Merrill. He was known to me by that name then. I
have heard from friends since then that that was an assumed name
or something. At any rate, he is doing business in New York City
under an entirely different name as of this date.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know that name ?
Mr. Dennett. I do not know that name. I know a person who
does, who lives in the city of Seattle, and who knows him. But I do
not know him myself.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell his name, the name that he went
by here ?
Mr. Dennett. L-e-w-i-s M-e-r-r-i-1-1.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, please ?
Mr. Dennett. At a much earlier period — I am going back to try
to pick up the loose threads that we left out when we should have men-
tioned them, but I was unable to connect all my thoughts consecu-
tively at that time. In the organization of the Marine Workers In-
dustrial Union Mr. Harry Jackson, whom I mentioned to you, was
the chief leader of that effort here. But he had 2 or 3 very able as-
sistants, one by the name of James Archer, A-r-c-h-e-r. Archer is the
man to whom I delivered about $35 which was taken up as a collection
when I was in the CCC camp when I came to Seattle on a visit from
the camp. It was a collection from the men in the camp to assist the
maritime strikers at that time, and Mr. Archer is the man to whom
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 437
I delivered that money in the headquarters of the Marine Workers
Industrial Union.
Another person who was very active in that work was a person by
the name of Tommy Ray, E-a-y. Later I met Tommy Ray after I
was expelled from the Communist Party. Tommy Ray at that time
was a port agent for the National Maritime Union. And I tried to
discuss with him the question of the disciplinary practices of the Com-
munist Party, and Ray was so incensed about his own experience
that he wouldn't discuss it with me except to say, "Don't talk to me
about those so-and-sos. I don't want to have anything further to do
with them." And that is about all I was able to obtain from him.
But it was the same person, and I believe he is still an active person
in the National Maritime Union. But he is bitterly anti-Communist
today.
There was another person by the name of Tom Burns. I don't know
how we can make a distinction for him, because there are so many
persons by that name except to say that he was a seaman. I learned
later from Tommy Ray that Tom Burns became a licensed man, left
the Communist Party long before, and has had nothing to do with
it; that is, in recent years. Although he was a very able man way
back in the period of 1932, 1933, and 1934 when he was very active
in the organization of the Marine Workers Industrial Union, and had
a great part in organizing the sailors on the waterfront in Seattle at
that time.
I knew Tommy Burns' wife quite well, a person by the name of —
I knew her originall}^ as Helmi Hutenen.
Mr. Tavenner. Spell it, please.
Mr. Dennett. I cannot be certain of the spelling of it, but, as near
as I recall, it was H-u-t-e-n-e-n. There was double spelling in there
that I am not certain of. Helmi was II-e-1-m-i.
There was a leader of the radio operators, marine radio operators,
by the name of Thomas J. Van Erman. I observed in ]\Irs. Kartle's
testimony that she referred to a Mr. Van Orman. I am not referring
to any Van Orman. I don't know any Van Orman. The man I know
was Van Erman, V-a-n E-r-m-a-n. And Mr. Van Erman that I knew
worked on the Seattle waterfront as a radio operator and was, I be-
lieve he was the port agent of that organization.
Mr. Tavenner. Let the record show in describing these persons
vou knew and met, that you knew them as members of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Dennett. That is correct.
I frequently made myself quite obnoxious to Mr. Van Erman
because I was always asking him to be a little more militant and
a little more positive in his work. And he was quite insistent that
I was wrong, and we had a continuing friction over that point. How-
ever, we were great personal friends.
The Cannery Workers Union was a local affiliate of the United
Cannery, Agricultural, and Packinghouse Workers of America. In
the national leadership I knew a Mr. Donald Henderson, who was
the president of that organization. I knew him very well, associated
with him frequently at the convention, transacted a great deal of
business with him concerning the cannery workers out here because
we were having a great deal of difficulty over language problems.
62222— 55— pt. 2 5
438 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
The cannery workers in that union were those who were sent to Alaska
reguhirly each year to Avork in the sahnon industry.
And in the local area I knew Mr. Conrad Espe. Mr. Con Espe was
the local representative of that international union.
There was a member of that union who was the most promising
Communist that we had, by the name of I. Hosue, H-o-s-u-e. He was
a very able man. I have heard since from people w^io are somewhat
acquainted with the facts that Mr. Hosue went into the military-
service, became an officer during the course of the war, and turned
bitterly anti-Communist. And I understand that he gave testimony
against certain other members of the organization in certain deporta-
tion hearings. I can only give you that much by way of identifica-
tion. But that is the man I am speaking of.
Mr. Tavenner. May I suggest, Mr. Chairman, if tlie witness recalls
any other names, that he give them to us at a later period, as we desire
to proceed now with other witnesses.
Mr. Moulder. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to recall this witness a little later in the
day on other matters.
Mr. Moulder. At Avhat time do you want Mr. Dennett back?
Mr. Tavenner. I believe that he should be back after lunch. I
would say at 2 o'clock.
Mr. Moulder. Two o'clock.
Thank you, Mr. Dennett. At 2 o'clock you will be recalled.
jSIr. Wheeler. Mr. Paul Delaney, please.
Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you
are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole
truht, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Delanet. I do.
TESTIMONY OF PAUL WILLIAM DELANEY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, RICHARD L. GEMSON
Mr. Wheeler. Will the witness state his full name, please.
Mr. Delaney. Paul William Delaney.
Mr. Wheeler. Will you spell the last name ?
Mr. Delaney. D-e-1-a-n-e-y.
Mr. Wheeler. When and where were you born, Mr. Delaney?
Mr. Moulder. May I ask, Mr. Delaney, are you represented by
counsel ?
Mr. Delaney. Yes ; I am.
Mr. Moulder. Will counsel identify himself?
Mr. Gemson. E. L. Gemson. I am a practicing attorney here in
Seattle.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Wheeler.
Mr. Wheeler. When and Avhere were you born, Mr. Delaney?
Mr. Delaney. I was born in 1903 in the State of Minnesota.
Mr. Wheeler. How long have you lived in Washington?
Mr. Delaney. 51 years.
Mr. Wheeler. Advise the committee of your educational back-
ground, please.
Mr. Delaney. T went to school in this State: through grammar
school and high school: I attended the University of Washington 2:
years. I didn't graduate.
I
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 439
Mr. Wheeler. What 2 years was that ?
Mr. Delaxey. I think in the years 1923 and 1927.
Mr. Wheeler, ^^^lat is your present occupation ?
Mr. Delaney. I am an architect.
Mr. Wheeler. How long have you been so engaged ?
Mr. Delaney. Well, I gi-ew up in the construction business. I have
been a licensed architect since 1950 or 1951. I can't state accurately.
Mr. Wheeler. How were you employed prior to that ?
Mr. Dei^vney. I came to Seattle in 1941. I worked at Sims Drake
Puget Sound. It was a contracting firm here. I worked with a con-
struction company after that who built defense housing. After that.
I worked, the last 'year of the war— in my recollection— at Boeing Air^
craft Co.
Mr. Wheeler. When did your employment terminate with Boeing
Aircraft ?
Mr. Delaxey. When the war was over.
Mr. Wheeler. In 1945 ?
Mr. Delaney. Yes.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you completed your employment background ?
Mr. Delaney. Do you want me to bring it up to date ?
Mr. Wheeler. Yes.
Mr. Delaney. As soon as the war was over I went to work as an
architectural draftsman. I went then with an architect by the name
of Collins. I think he left in 1950 or 1951, and I have been alone
since then.
Mr. AVheeleh. Did you ever know Barbara Hartle ?
Ml-. Delaney. May I confer with my attorney ?
Mr. Wheeler. Yes, sir ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Delaney. On the advice of my counsel, I must invoke the fifth
amendment, on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Moulder. As previously explained by the committee because
your counsel advises you to take or invoke the fifth amendment that
does not compel you to do so. If you prefer, you may state that you
decline to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Delaney. Yes ; that is correct.
Mr, Wheeler. Mrs. Hartle has advised the committee that you were
a functionary of the Queen Anne section of the Communist Party dur-
ing the years 1943-45. Is she correct in that statement ?
Mr, Delaney. May I again confer ?
Mr. Wheeler. Yes.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Air, Delaney. For reasons previously given, I decline to answer this
question.
Mr. Wheeler. Our investigation has also developed information
that you were chairman of the Hilltop Club of the Communist Party
in the year 1948. Is that correct ?
Mr. Velde. What was the name of the club ?
Mr. Wheeler. HiJltop, H-i-1-l-t-o-p,
Mr. 1 )elaney. Pardon me one moment.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Delaney. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viou'-lv stated.
440 COMJXIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Wheeler. Our investigation has also developed that in the
year 1943 you Avere issued Communist Party book No. 28704. I doubt,
if you recall the number of the book, but were you issued a Cormnun-
ist Party book in the year 1943 by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Delaney. I decline to answer for the reasons previously given.
Mr. Wheeler. In the year 1945 were you issued Communist Party
book No. 42131.
Mr. Delaney. I also decline to answer that for the reasons pre-
Tiously given.
Mr. Wheeler. In the year 1947 were you issued Communist Party
book No. 65934 by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Delaney. I decline to answer for the same reasons previously
given.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you a member of the Communist Party today,
Mr. Delaney ?
Mr. Delaney. I must — I decline to answer that for the reasons
previously given.
Mr. Wheeler. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Velde ?
Mr. Velde. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Delaney. I must — I mean I decline to answer that.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Delaney. For the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Velde. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Delaney, we have heard many arguments against
persons coming before congressional investigative committees and mak-
ing accusations or statements concerning other people, and that those
people do not have the opportunity to clear themselves or make ex-
planation of the charges made against them, such as Mrs. Hartle has
testified concerning you and your activities.
This committee has very carefully in each instance given the person
so mentioned an opportunity to come before the cominittee to deny,
affirm, or explain the charges made. And that opportunity is being
presented to you today by a subpena issued upon you for your appear-
ance here.
In reply to the questions propounded to you, I understand you de-
cline to answer because of the protection afforded you under the fifth
amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Is that right ?
Mr. Delaney. That is correct.
Mr. Moulder. Do you wish to make any explanation, or to deny or
affirm any of these statements or charges which were made by Mrs.
Hartle concerning your communistic activities?
Mr. Delaney. Slay I confer with my counsel ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Delaney. My counsel instructs me to state that I decline to
answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment — on the
ground that it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Moulder. Counsel, proceed with the next witness.
Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Jacob Bitterman.
Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH,, AREA 441
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to
give before this congressional committee will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. BiTTERMAN. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF JACOB BITTERMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD
Mr. Wheeler. "Will the witness state his full name, please?
Mr. BiTTERMAX. Jacob Bitterman.
Mr. Velde. How do you spell the last name?
Mr. BriTERMAx, B-i-t-t-e-r-m-a-n.
Mr. Wheeler. Will counsel identify himself for the record?
Mr. SIacDoxald. Kenneth A. MacDonald, attorney at law, in
Seattle.
Mr. Wheeler. When and where were you born, Mr. Bitterman ?
Mr. BiTTERMAX. I was born in Russia in 1904.
Mr. Wheeler. When did you enter the United States ?
Mr. Bitter:max. To the best of my knowledge, in 1906.
Mr. Wheeler. How did you acquire American citizenship?
Mr. Bittermax. Through my father's papers.
Mr. Wheeler. When you became 21 years of age ?
Mr. BiTTERMAx. I was 12 when he became a citizen.
^Ir. WheeI;ER. How long have you lived in Seattle or in the vicinity
of Seattle?
Mr. BiTTERMAx. I came to Seattle in 1923.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you lived here continuously since that time?
Mr. P>iiTERMAX. With the exception of 2 years, 1928 and 1929.
That is, in the fall of 1928 to the fall of 1930 I lived in Aberdeen,
Wash.
Mr. Wheeler. What is your educational background ?
]Mr. BiTTERMAX. Well, I went to the third grade in country school.
Mr. Wheeler. What has your employment record been for the last
10 years?
Ml-. Bi'iTERaiAx. Machinist.
Mr. Wheeler. In Seattle?
Mr. l^i'iTERMAx. Yes. I have been a machinist ever since I have
been in Seattle.
Mr. Wheeler. Are you a, member of the International Association
of Machinists?
Mr. BiTTERMAx. Yes. I am a member of local 79.
Mr. Wheeler. Have you held any offices in local 79 ?
iMr. Bittermax. No, I haven't.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Air. Wheeler. During the time you lived in Seattle did you ever
meet with, know, or have any conversations with Barbara Hartle?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. BiTTERMAx. I will invoke the fifth amendment because it might
incriminate me.
Mr. ]\IouLDER. Do you decline to answer that question?
Mr. BiTTERMAx. I. decline to answer.
Mr. Moulder. Do you decline on the grounds and on the reasons of
the protection afforded to you by the provisions of the fifth amend-
ment?
442 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr, BiTTERMAX. Yes.
Mr. Wheeler. I would like to refer to a document entitled "Investi-
gation of Communist Activities in the Pacific Northwest, Part 3," page
6173. It is the testimony of Barbara Hartle in June 1954, She is
identifying members of the Communist Party, and I quote the fol-
lowing:
Jack Bitterman, tlieu husband of Ruth Bitterman, was a member of this
section in the machinists' branch, and was for a time chairman of that branch.
Do you wish to make any comment on that testimony ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Bitterman. I invoke the fifth amendment, on the same grounds
previously stated,
Mr, Yelde, Mr, Wheeler is not aslang you to confirm or deny it,
but asked merely if you wanted to make some comment on it. Why
do you take the iif tli amendment on that question ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. BiT'rERMAN. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds,
Mr, Wheeler, Were j^ou chairman of the machinists' branch of the
Communist Party ?
Mr, Bitterman, I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Wheeler, Mr. Chairman, I see no reason for asking further
questions. The witness is invoking the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. Mr, Yelde?
Mr, Yelde, I have no questions,
Mr. Moulder, Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr, Bitterman, No.
Mr, Moulder. Have vou ever l)een a member of the Communist
Party?
(The witness confers with his counsel,)
Mr, Bitterman. I will again invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Moulder. You say you are not now a member of the Communist
Party, Were you a member of the Communist Party a year ago?
Mr. Bitterjvian. I will again invoke the fifth amendment for fear
it might incriminate me.
Mr. Moulder. Were you a member of the Communist Party a month
ago?
Mr. Bitterman. I will again invoke the fifth amendment on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Moulder. Would you say a week ago ?
Mr. Bitterman, I will again invoke the fifth amendment,
Mr. Moulder, How about yesterday ?
Mr. Bitterman. The same answer.
JMr. Moulder. But you are not a member today ?
Mr. Bitterman, I am not a member today.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
Mr, Yelde. I would like to go a little further. Were you a member
of the Communist Party an hour ago ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr, Bitterman. No, I was not.
Mr. Yelde. Were you a member of the Communist Party 5 hours
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 443
Mr. BiTTERMAisr. No.
Mr. Velde. Wlien did you leave the Communist Party ?
Mr. BrrTERMAN". As to that I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Velde. Were you a member of the Commimist Party at mid-
night last night?
Mr. BiTi-ERMAN. No, I was not.
Mr. Velde. How about 11 o'clock last night?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Bittermax. I will invoke the fifth amendment to that question.
Mr. Velde. I think that is close enough, is it not, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Wliereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Moulder. Counsel, call the next witness.
Mr. Wheeler. Mr. John Stenhouse.
Mr. Moulder. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to
give before this congressional subcommitee will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN STENHOUSE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
JACK R. CLUCK
Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you state your name?
Mr. Stenhouse. John Stenhouse.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel identify himself ?
Mr. Cluck. Jack R. Cluck. C-1-u-c-k, 535 Central Building, Seattle.
Mr. Ta\t.nxf,r. When and where were you born, Mr. Stenhouse?
Mr. Stenhouse. I was born in Chungking, China, on Januaiy 22,
1908.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please.
Mr. Stenhouse. S-t-e-n-h-o-u-s-e.
Mr. Tamsnner. Are you now an American citizen?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien and where were you naturalized ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I was naturalized in Los Angeles on April 23,
1943.
Mr. Tavenner. ^^Tien did you arrive in the United States?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am not quite certain, but it was either Decem-
ber of 1 940 or January of 1941 .
Mr. Tam^.nner. Plave you been in the United States continuously
since that time ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. In June 1948 I went out to China, and re-
turned to the United States either September or October of the same
year.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your
formal educational training has been.
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I went to a public school in England, and
after completing my education in England I went back to China.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you go back to China?
Mr. Stenhouse. In 1928.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live in China from 1928 until you
came to the United States?
444 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I was in my father's business in China. The
name of the firm was jNIacKenzie & Co., and they had several branches
in China. I spent some time in Shanghai. I then went to —
]Mr. Ta\-enner. Will you fix the dates, please.
Mr. Steniiouse. It is pretty hard. But approximately 9 months
in Shanghai. That would be in 1928.
I really don't remember the month that I got to Shanghai, but I
was there approximately 9 months.
Then I went to Tientsin, and I was there until the beginning of
1931, 1 think it was.
Mr. Velde. What kind of a company was MacKenzie & Co. ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, it Avas a British trading firm. We had
Mr. Velde. Import-export?
Mr. Stenhouse. xind warehouses and shipping and that sort of
activity. Then I went to Hankow. I was there until about 1934.
I remember the date because we went home on leave at that time, and
I got married that year. And then after leave I went back to Tientsin,
and I was there until 1939 when we went home on leave again.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean to your home in England ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes. Then I went back to China in the fall of
1939, just after war was declared, and I was in Tientsin until the end
of — well, the end of 1940. During 1940 I was sent up on a mission by
my company to Chungking and to Hong Kong. That lasted about 3 or
4 months, I think.
Mr. Tavenner. After your arrival in this country how did you
become employed and where ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, before I left China I had made arrangements
with a firm in Peiping to import and sell Chinese antiques. And he
gave me the name of a man in Los Angeles with whom he had done
business, and suggested that I call on him because he was in some-
wliat similar business. And when I got to Los Angeles I called on
this gentleman and made arrangements to work out of Ins establish-
ment.
Later on — I can't remember the date — I went into partnership with
him under the style of Alkow & Stenhouse, and we conducted an
importing business of Chinese antiques and sort of handicraft items,
and had a retail outlet on Wilshire Boulevard.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you so engaged in business in Los
Angeles ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Until Pearl Harbor. And I decided then that •
Mr. Ta\^nner. From what date until Pearl Harbor ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Weil, as soon as I got to Los Angeles, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That date was what ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't remember the exact date, but it was some-
time in January of 1941.
Mr. Tavenner. That is sufficient.
Will you proceed, please. You continued in that business until
Pearl Harbor. How were you employed after Pearl Harbor?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor
the war was on. And, for one thing, I wanted to participate in the
war. So I took a drafting course and then got a job with Shell
Chemical in Dominguez, I think it was until the end of — I was there
for 3 or 4 months, I think it was. I don't remember the exact date
now.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 445
Mr. Velpe. What was the name of the company ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Shell Chemical.
Mr. Velde. Is that also known as Shell De^-elopment Co. ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't know. It may be a subsidiary. It was
connected with the Shell Oil Co,
Then I got a job with Fruehauf Trailer Co., which was nearer
home. xVnd I was there until, I think, about June of 1943,
Mv. Ta-\t,nner. Will you proceed a little more rapidly i What was
your next employment ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Then I went to Bendix Aviation in N^orth Holly-
wood. The reason for the change was, or one of the reasons for the
change was, it was much nearer home, and gasoline was a problem.
Time and transportation time were problems. And I was at Bendix
until about March 1945, when I had a hernia operation and was told
to get out of that sort of work.
At about that time there were notices in the papers asking for people
with some background in the Far East to assist in finishing off the war
against Japan, So I applied for a number of jobs. One was with
the Of&ce of War Information, and another was with the Office of
Strategic Services. I also applied for work with 2 or 3 American
companies who were planning or had had affiliations in the Far East.
And then I got an appointment with the United States Department
of Commerce as an economic analyst in the China Section of the Far
Eastern Division.
Mr. Tavenner, Is that the first position you held under the United
States Government ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr, Tavenner. And when did you enter the employ of the United
States Government?
Mr. Stenhouse, I think it was June 1945,
Mr. Tavenner. Did your duties require you to go to Washington?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in Washington ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I remained with the Government until No-
vember 1947, and
Mr. TaM':nner. Is that with the Commerce Department until 1947?
Mr, Stenhouse. Yes,
Mr. Velde, Were you an economic analyst in the Far Eastern
Division during your entire employment by the Government?
]Mr. Stenhouse. Xo. About a year after I was there I was pro-
moted to Chief of the China Section and, some time in there, as
Acting A.ssistant Chief of the Division. And a little later, just before
1 left the Department, I was temporary Acting Chief of the Division
while the Division Chief was away.
In 1947, November 1947, my employment there terminated, and
again I was looking for a suitable occupation. And I applied many,
many places. I applied with many American firms who were in
business in the Far East or had business connections in the Far East.
And I also applied for an appointment that I heard about with the
United Nations.
Afr. Tavenner, Did you receive the appointment with the United
Nations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes,
Mr. Tavtnner. "Wlien?
446 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Stenhouse. I think it was about June of 1948. There was a
period when I was living in Washington that I was not employed.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment by the
United Nations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I had a 3-month special appomtment to go out to
Shanghai to work on the Economic Commission for Asia and the
Far East, which was a separate section of the United Nations. And
the work was related to the rehabilitation of trade, with special refer-
ence to the development of interregional trade in the light of the
changed situation after the war.
I wrote a report which was included in a document published by
the United Nations.
At the end of the 3-month period I was appointed administrative
assistant to the — I don't know what his actual title was, but it was
something like director of food and agriculture mission in China;
a 3-month appointment again, and I worked in that capacity for
about 3 months ; I think until the end of September, when I was found
to have some possibilities of tuberculosis. So I wanted to go back to
the United States and get a thorough investigation of that, and I got
a letter from the director of the mission there to the home office
suggesting that I be given a permanent contract — not a permanent
contract but a more long-range contract to go out under circumstances
that would allow me to take my family out. However, on the way
back from China I stopped here in Seattle and met some businessmen
for whom I had done some work in my official capacity in the Depart-
ment. They were pleased with the work I had done and they sug-
gested that I join their firm in Seattle.
Mr. Tavexner. What was the approximate date of your return to
the United States when you first beciune a resident of this community?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, my return to the United States was about
September or October of 1948. I went back to Washington
Mr. Tavenner. I understand that. But you told us about your
return to the United States and stopping here in Seattle.
Mr. Stenhouse. You asked me when I first came here, and became
a resident. There was a gap of a couple of months because I went
back to Washington to pick up my family, and we actually came here
to Seattle as residents in January of 1949.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you resided in Seattle since that date?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta%^nner. What is your present occupation?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am an insurance agent.
Mr. Ta\tbnner. Have you read any of the testimony before this
committee of General Willoughby who was G-2 on General Mac-
Arthur's staff, which related to the development of communism in
China?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Tavenner. General Willoughby documented considerable evi-
dence before this committee regarding the activities of certain Ameri-
can citizens in China. My desire now is merely to ask you whether
or not you observed any Communist Party activities on the part of
American nationals in China?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Tavenner. And I refer particularly to the period 1928 and 1929
when you were in Shanghai.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 447
Mr. Stenhouse. I didn't know anything about it. I was a busi-
nessman.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been affiliated with the Com-
munist Party, and, if so, in what country or countries?
Mr. Stexhouse. During the war some 10 years ago I was a member
of the Communist Party in this country.
Mr. Tavenner. In this country?
Mr. Stenhouse. And that is the only affiliation that I have had.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking you now about your own affiliation,
or indicating that I believe you were affiliated with the Communist
Party in China, but we are anxious to have any infonnation you have
regarding Communist Party activities in China.
Mr. Stenhouse. I haven't any information, Mr. Tavenner. When
I left China in 1940 I only had a very vague idea about what was
going on there.
Mr. Ta^-enner. Let me put the question to you this way because it
is a very broad subject.
General Willoughby testified before this committee that the form
of organization of mass organizations in China from 1929 on was
virtually identical with what we have found in this country since the
early and middle thirties, that is, in working through mass organiza-
tions or front organizations, as we frequently call them in this country.
Did you observe any activity of that kind ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No, and I wouldn't have done it because I was liv-
ing in the international concessions in watertight compartments where
we associated, except in business, with Europeans and Americans. I
am somewliat — what was going on in the interior of China and in Chi-
nese politics I Avas somewhat abysmally ignorant of in those days,
Mr. Tavenxer. It has been demonstrated that Americans, people
from this country took an active part in some of that organizational
work in China.
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I never did.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the fact that you were in an international sec-
tion mean that you could not have had any knowledge of it ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I didn't have any knowledge of it. I was
involved in business until the Japanese threatened my business. I
wasn't concerned with politics.
Mr. Taat:nner. I am not indicating I have any information that
you were involved in it. I am merely asking what knowledge you had
of it?
Mr. Stenhouse. I really have no knowledge.
Mr. Velde. I tliink we ought to make this clear : Are you referring
to the period of time you were in China prior to 1940, and not about
your trip the second time ?
Mr. Stenhouse. That is correct.
Mr. Velde. Have you been back more than once since 1940 to
China?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. Only once.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you say you became a member of the Conunu-
nist Party while you Avere in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Taat^nner. ^Y[^nt was the approximate date of your becoming
a member?
448 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Si^ENHOUSE. Well, to the best of my recollection, it was in the
latter part of 1943.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you living at that time ?
Mr. Stenhouse. In Horseshoe Canyon.
Mr. Tavenner. Were yon assigned to any particular group of the
Communist Party when you first became a member ?
JNIr. Stenhouse. I don't think it was a matter of assignment, to
my knowledge. I was asked if I would like to attend some discussion
group meetings and, to the best of my recollection, there were not more
than 4 or 5 of them in Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. Four or 5 what?
]\Ir. Stenhouse. Of these discussion group meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean that you attended 4 or & of these dis-
cussion group meetings ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not you were transferred
from one such group to another ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am pretty certain I wasn't. I am not aware of
it. Somebody may have transferred me. But, as far as I know, I
attended a group of discussion meetings somewhere, not too far from
where we lived in North Hollywood. I don't remember now whether
it was in more than one home. It may have been in 1 or 2.
Mr. Tavenner. How many persons attended those meetings?
Mr, St]i5NH()USE. About 4 or 5.
Mr. Tavenner. Were they always the same persons or did the group
vary as to its composition ?
Mr. Stenhouse. It may have varied. I don't remember for sure.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the business conducted at
those meetings?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, we discussed Communist and other litera-
ture and articles. We discussed the affairs that were concerning all
of us at that time, of the Avar and tlie winning of the war — and it was
just talk.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not Communist Party
literature was made available for your purchase at the meetings ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, it was.
Mr. Tavenner. And for your use ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, it was.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in the study group, in the study
of the Communist Party literature yourself ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Oh, I suppose I read what we were asked to read
or was suggested we read, and made some attempt to discuss it at the
next meeting.
I might add that the literature that was at those meetings was also
on sale in some of the bookstores in Los Angeles. There was a Lincoln
Book Store there which had Communist and other material for sale.
I was in the bookstore 2 or 3 times. There was also at these meetings
material that was not Communist, at least not published by the party.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the Lincoln Book Store known as a Communist
book shop ?
Mr. Stenhouse. It wasn't known to me as such.
Mr. Tavenner. There has been evidence of that character presented
to the committee.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 449
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I wouldn't doubt it actually. But they sold
things other than Comnnmist Party literature. xVnd it wasn't under
the table. It was right out in the open. Anybody from the street
could walk in and pick it up and read it.
Mr. Tavenner. Who invited you to become a member of that group ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't know, sir. At that time I was very active
in the United Auto Workers. I felt that the United Auto Workers
was doing a fine job in increasing production for the war. Their no-
strike pledge was very loyally kept, and there were people there who
always attended meetings, who were always ready to try and get other
people to come to the union meetings, who were ready to do jobs for
the union in the way of promoting blood-bank drives, and so on, get-
ting people to register to vote, and the sort of things that I was
interested in. Some one of these people who I had some knowledge of
their actions asked me if I would go to such a meeting, and I said I
would.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Were the other members of this group of Communist
Party persons employed in the same business in which you were em-
ployed ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, as far as I remember, there were possibly
2 or 3 of the group who were at the Bendix plant. I am not sure
now. It is hard to differentiate.
Mr. Moulder. You say you were interested in the same things that
they were interested in, that is, getting people interested in elections
aiul going to the polls to vote.
Mr. Stenhouse. Sure.
Mr. Moulder. Do you recall whether or not at that time the Com-
munist Pai-ty had candidates for whom you could cast a ballot?
Mr. Stenhouse. We weren't interested in it. We were voting
Democratic. I was a Democrat.
Mr. Moulder. The point I was trying to make, if you were inter-
ested in that party why did you join the Democratic Party? I don't
understand why you affiliated yourself with a party that had no
candidates for whom you could vote.
Mr. SiTiNHOusE. I didn't deliberately go out to affiliate myself with
it. Somebody who was interested in it also, as a Democrat — and these
things that were part of the war effort — suggested that I go to one of
these meetings. And he had become a person I had some respect for
because of his apparent adherence to the things that the majority of
the American people were doing at that time. I accepted the idea
and went to the meetings.
Mr. ^Moulder. Were they Communist Party organization meetings ?
Mr. Stenhouse. 1 don't understand you.
Mr. Moulder. Are you talking about Communist Party meetings?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. I am talking about union meetings and how
it came about that somebody invited me to go.
Mr. Moulder. I am referring to the Communist Party meetings.
Mr. Stenhouse. There were many meeting:s at that time, Mr.
Chairman — union meetings ; many union meetings I attended. I was
very much impressed with the union.
Mr. Moulder. Were the union meetings you attended Communist
Partv meetings?
450 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Stenhouse. I think we have got at cross purposes someway
here. \
I was trying to explain how it came about that somebody invited mo
to go to one of these discussion group meetings, and it was through
the association with somebody whom I had some regard for in Ms
union activity that I accepted an invitation.
Mr. MoTjLDER. Was the discussion group meeting a Communist
Party meeting or merely affiliated with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am as confused as you are about that.
Mr. Moulder. Do you know whether you were a Communist at
that time?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, to be frank about it, I believe I signed a
Communist Party card at some time.
I have a vague recollection of a card which had an American flag
on it and some very patriotic phraseology about the war effort and
the alliance between our country and the Soviet Union. It may have
even had some words about the Communist Party on it. But it seemed
to me entirely innocuous. In fact, again it appeared to be directed
to the things I was interested in, in the war effort.
Mr. Moulder. Did you pay dues to the Communist Party after
signing the Communist Party card ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I believe there was some sort of dues structure,
but I don't remember now how it worked. There were these materials
for sale at the meetings, and money changed hands. I don't remember
now how much of it was for books, how much of it was for dues.
Mr. Moulder. Over what period of time did you continue to par-
ticipate in such meetings and in what you then considered to be
Communist Party activity ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I find it hard to set the actual dates, but it
was, I think, some time during the latter part of 1943 and 1944.
Mr. Moulder. And thereafter you have never in any way what-
soever participated in any Communist Party activity ?
Mr. Stenhouse. That isn't the truth, sir.
Mr. Moulder. What would you say ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I also attended some similar meetings when I was
in Washington, D. C.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock.
(■\Vliereupon, at 12 : 03 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m. this
same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, MARCH 19, 1955
Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order, please.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN STENHOUSE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
JACK R. CLUCK— Resumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stenhouse, we were discussing the Communist
Party branch or group of which you were a member in Los Angeles.
Will you give the committee, please, the names of those who were
associated with you in that group ?
Mr, Stenhouse. I am unable to give you the names, Mr. Tavenner.
It is a long time ago, and I have been trying to remember. As I
indicated to you the other day, if you give me some ideas of whom
you think were present, it might refresh my memory.
COMIXIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 451
Mr, Tavenner. I believe I told you that we would try to present
you with a list of persons who had been identified in the Los Angeles
area as members of the Communist Party, but we do not have that
list with us, and we are unable to present it to you now. We may do
so later in an effort to refresh your recollection.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Air. Stenhouse. I am willing at any time to tell you if any particu-
lar individual in my recollection was at those meetings.
Mr. Ta>^nner. Will you tell the committee, please, how you became
employed in the United States Department of Commerce in Wash-
in.rrton.
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, as I indicated, after I was obliged to have my
hernia operation and get out of the defense work that I had been doing
I sought occupation in a number of places. And somewhere along the
line somebody brought my qualifications in the Far East to Congress-
man Ellis Patterson, and he referred it to Henry Wallace, and the
appointment was made on that introduction.
Mr. Ta\'exner. Did you finally become head of your Section in the
Department of Commerce?
Mr. Stexhouse. Chief of the Section.
Mr. Tavenxer. Was that the Section dealing with China?
Mr. Stenhouse. That is right.
Mr. Ta^-exxer. Did your activities in the Department of Commerce
have anything to do with known Communists in China?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. The work that I was doing was related to the
rehabilitation of trade. We were answering the inquiries of business-
men relating to regulations and economic conditions in China and
the Far East. We prepared articles for the Foreign Commerce Week-
ly and conducted an economic analysis of the possibilities of reopening
trade.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you tell the committee that you attended Com-
munist Party meetings in the city of Washington?
Mr. Stenhouse. That is right.
Mr. Ta-\t:xxer. Was tliat during the entire period of time you were
in Washington ?
Mr. Stexhouse. I can't be sure of the time again. But it was some-
where between the end of, I think, somewhere between the end of 1945
and the end of 1946.
Mr. Tavexxer. How soon after your arrival in Washington did you
become identified with the Communist Party there, and attend those
group meetings ?
Mr. Stexhouse. I can't place it. I know that shortly after I got to
Washington I had another serious operation, and I was busy getting
adjusted to my new work. Sometime about then I joined the Federal
Workers Union.
Mr. Moulder. I did not understand you. You joined what?
Mr, Stenhouse. The Federal Workers Union.
Mr, Tavenner, Was it after you became a member of the Federal
Workers Union that you first began attending Communist Party meet-
ings in the District of Columbia?
Mr, Stenhouse, I can't be sure, I think it was. .
Mr, Tavenner, Did you advance to the point of holding an office
-of any type in the union while you were in Washington ?
452 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
]VIi". Stenhouse. I was a shop steward and collected dues from 4
or 5 people. That was all.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum-
stances under which you were approached to identify yourself with
the Communist Party while you were working for the Department of
Commei'ce ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, again I think it was that one of the fellows
in the union asked me to attend some of the similar sort of meetings
that I had before. But it is possible that it was from some contact
in Los Angeles. I am not sure about that=
Mr. Tavexxer. Did that individual indicate that he knew you had'
been associated with a branch of the Communist Party in Los Angeles
when he tirst talked to you about attending such meetings in the
District of Columbia?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't remember whether he did or not.
Mr. Tavenxer. Who was the person that contacted you in
Washington ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, again I can't remember his name. But I
have already told you who I thought it was in terms of his union
function. He was a member of the grievance committee in that de-
partment.
Mr. Tavexner. Can you give a better identification of the indi-
vidual than the fact he was with the grievance committee?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I can give you a physical description tO'
some extent. He was a fairly short fellow and dark, dark hair.
Mr. Ta\t;nner. About what age person was he at that time ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Oh, I imagine maybe 30, 32; something like that..
Mr. Tavenner. Where did he live?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't know. He may have lived in Virginia..
I say that because one of the houses where we met was in Virginia.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it his house?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am not sure now.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he also employed by the Departmerit of (Com-
merce ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. TA^^3NNER. What was his position in the Department of
Commerce ?
Mr. Stenhouse. He was in the Balance of Payments. I am not
sure of the actual name of the division. The work of that division
was related to the study and report of international balance of
payments.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us where his office was located in the
Department of Commerce?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. It was a huge building and I don't remem-
ber what floor it Avas on. It was in the main building.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it on the same floor as your office?
Mr. Stex-^house, I don't remember.
Mr. Tavex^ner. Can you give us his name ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No;' I can't sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were all of the members of this group employees in
the Department of Commerce?
(Eepresentative Plarold H. Velde entered the hearing room at
this point.)
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 453
Mr. Stenhouse. I am not sine of that. I think they were. I
identified them in my mind at least with members of the Public
Workers Union. And, while I was— well, I was going to say with
that local. But I am not sure of that.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the number of the local ?
Mr. Stenhouse, I don't remember. I only attended about, oh, not
more than 4 or 5 union meetings. I dropped out of the union
around the end of 194G, I think it was. And, as a matter of fact,
I was extremely busy in my work an.d wasn't actually familiar with
the organization of the union.
Mr. Tavenxer. You were active eriough in the union to be made
a steward.
Mr. Stenhouse. That is right. I Avas a shop steward.
Mr. Tavexxer. Was it your duty, as a shop steward, to represent
the membership of the union in legitimate grievances !■
Mr. Stexhouse. Well, we never had any. And all I did was collect
dues and turn them over to another fellow.
Mr. Tavexxek. Were any of the persons from whom you collected
union dues members of the grou}j of the Communist Party to which
you referred ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Xo. Xo ; I don't think they were.
Mr. Tavexxer. Was this a mixed group, men and women?
Mr. Stenhoise. In the discussion group ?
^Ir. Tavexxer. Yes.
^Ir. Stenhouse. Yes; I think it was only men.
Mr. Tanenner. Hoav many '.
Mr. Stenhouse. Four or five.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you gi\ e us tlie names, if you can, of any of the
members of the group ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No, sir, I can't.
Mr. Moulder. You have referred several times to the discussion
group. Can you tell us what you discussed ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, we discussed international affairs, domestic
problems; we discussed articles, as I indicated before, in Communist
and other publications,
Mr. Moulder. In any of these grou])s were you ever addressed by
prominent Communist officials or leaders?
Mr. Stenhouse. In those discussion groups ?
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. Stenhouse. Not that I know of. They were all people, as far
as I could determine, just like myself, maybe temporarily off on a
wrong track. There was never any use of fictitious names as far as I
know. I didn't use a fictitious name.
Mr. Moulder. Will you repeat over what period of time did you
attend discussion groups when you Avere in Washington ?
Mr. Si-ENHousE. Well, it was some time between the latter part of
1945 and 1946.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, it seems unusual to me that the witness
cannot remember anybody's name, or the name of any person who
attended these meetings.
This occurred less than 10 years ago, did it not?
Mr. Stenhouse. About 10 years.
Mr. Velde. And you cannot remember the name of a single pereon
Avho attended those discussion groups?
62222— 55— pt. 2 6
454 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Stenhouse. No. And I have tried to do it, and I have offered
to cooperate to the best of my ability with the staff of your commit-
tee, sir.
It is, as you say, 10 years ago. I have moved out into a different
part of the world, an entirely different environment, new thoughts.
Since I have been out here I have been working hard to establish
myself economically, and I haven't had association within that time
to remind me.
Mr. Velde. Have you conscientiously tried to search your memory,
to review the history of that period to determine whether you could
name any persons who attended these meetings ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I have, sir.
Mr. Velde. Did you say you have consulted with our staff to deter-
mine whether or not they can refresh your memory?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Of course, it still seems odd to me that you cannot re-
member one single person.
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, as a matter of fact, I can't remember the
names of people whom I was in much more direct contact with in
those days.
Mr. Velde. You are a very intelligent person. There is no question
about that. It does seem to me that you could remember someone
that you went with. But can't you remember the occasion of your
first visit to one of these discussion groups?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Velde. Or how you happened to get to the meeting?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't remember where it was. It was apparently
in the house of one of the members of the group.
Mr. Velde. Do you remember the physical surroundings of the
meeting place ? Apparently it was in a home of one of the members
of the group.
Mr. Stenhouse. One of the meetings, as I recall, was in, I think
it was an apartment in one of the projects over on the Virginia side.
Mr. Velde. On that occasion can you remember anyone discussing
any particular legislation; for instance, legislation pending at that
time?
Mr. Stenhouse. No ; I can't. They were very
Mr. Velde. Can you recall the name of any individual discussing
any particular item?
Mr. Stenhouse. No, I don't.
Mr. Velde. By physical description ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. They were very informal discussions. We
just exchanged ideas back and forth. Somebody had read an article
out of a paper or one of the publications, and we discussed it, and
that was about it.
Mr. Velde. Your impression was, however, that it was a Commu-
nist Party discussion group?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, that is my impression.
Mr. Velde. Did you discuss Marxism?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Velde. You cannot recall what you discussed except that you
vaguely remember it was a Communist Party discussion ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I say we were discussing foreign affairs, domestic
problems. I remember at that time the question of price control was
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 455
in people's minds, and I am pretty sure that that was one of the things
we discussed.
Tliey were nothing more nor less than an attempt, from a certain
viewpoint, to study and explain, if you like, the phenomena we were
living in.
Mr. Velde. Have you no independent recollection whatsoever of
how you happened to get into the first meeting ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Except that I was invited, as far as I remember,
by this fellow that I have described.
Mr. Velde, But do you remember his name?
Mr. Stenhouse. I probably saw him not more than, oh, 20 times
during the whole time I was in Washington. And there were many
people in Washington whom I saw every day, whose names I can't
remember.
Another thing, Mr. Congressman, we discussed the same topics from
a different viewpoint with other people. And it is very hard to re-
member now exactly which topic was discussed at which meeting.
Mr. Velde. I am sure, Mr. Stenhouse, it is very hard to remember
exactly. But certainly I think that a person of average intelligence
and a fair memory could remember at least one person.
Mr. Stenhouse. If I could name them I would. And in offering to
go over a list of names, I have done the best I can to cooperate with
your committee.
Mr, Moulder. Wlien you filed your application for Government
employment did you file Government form 57 ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Do you remember the names of the persons you gave
as references on that application ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, if form 57 requires references, I don't —
Maybe it wasn't form 57. I don't want this to be misinterpreted.
Mr. Moulder. It is a standard application form required by govern-
mental departments.
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't recall any application in which I put ref-
erences. It may be so.
Mr. Mouu)ER. But you did make a written application setting forth
your experience and qualifications ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Oh, yes.
Mr. Moulder. And was there an oath on that application ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. Which you had to sign ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. And did anyone recommend you for this position to
which you were assigned in Washington ?
Mr, Stenhouse. Somebody recommended me in the sense that they
referred my name and qualifications to Ellis Patterson.
Mr. Moulder. Do you know who that person was?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am not sure who it was. We had a large num-
ber of friends from IjOS Angeles at that time, and it may have been
one of the people that we were active with in that Democratic cam-
paign. I think it probably was.
Mr. Moulder. AVhen you were made section chief, who was your
immediate superior?
Mr. Stenhouse. (Name deleted.)
456 COMMUNIST ACTI^•1TIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Moulder. Did lie have anytliing to do witli your promotior.
to that position ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I am sure he did.
Mr. Moulder. Do you remember the names of the persons who were
employed under your innnediate supervision?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, there was one fellow just prior to my pro-
motion. (Name deleted.)
Mr. Moulder. I am not suggesting a.ny of those persons be named
in the record; I am testing your memory as to why you remember
some people with whom you were associated and why you cannot
remember the names of some other people with whom you were closely
associated.
Mr. Stexhoi^se. I can remember the names of many of the people
in my division because we have exchanged Christmas cards since then,
and I have seen some of them since then.
Mr. Moulder. In line with Mr. Velde's questioning regarding the-
first Communist Party meeting to which you referred, how did you
go? By car, by bus, or by train? Was it just as you sa}^, a short
distance? How did you get there?
Mr. Stenhouse. No, I didn't say it was a short distance. I said it
was in Virginia.
Mr. Moulder. That is not far from the District of Columbia.
Mr. Stenhouse. We lived in Maryland.
Mr. Moulder. How did you travel to the place of the meeting?
Mr. Stenhouse. I suppose it was by bus because Ave didn't have ix-
car in those days.
Mr. Moulder. You went by bus over there ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I say bus. I mean public transportation.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, I think we ought to make it clear we
have no intention of having the public press or anyone else feel that
any of the persons you mention who were associated with you in your
professional work at that time are connected in any way with the
Communist Party or any of its functions. We have hitherto tried to
make that perfectly clear. The mere fact that you mention a name of
one of your associates should lead no one to believe that he is in any
way connected with it or has been connected with the Communist
Party or Communist Party activities.
Mr. Moulder. Did other employees in your section attend any of the
meetings to which you have referred ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. MouiJ)ER. In line with Congressman Velde's suggestion the
names mentioned by you in that connection will be stricken from the
record.
Mr. Stenhouse. I want to make one clarification.
In regard to this matter of references, I don't want it on the record
that I didn't give any references. If they were required I suppose I
gave them. But don't remember now who I gave.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Another point, Mr. Chairman, in regard to this matter of remem-
bering the names of the people who were at these discussion groups,
there were not more than 3 or 4 meetings as far as I remember. There
were very few in number.
Mr. MoLTLDER. How many meetings did you attend while you were
in Washington!
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 457
Mr. Stenhouse. Three or four; at the most, five; I can't remem-
ber exactly. They are very limited. I am trying to live back in those
days and pinpoint when it could have been and where they could have
been. And I can identify in a vague way three locations.
Mr. Moulder. Were you issued a Communist Party membership
card at any time while you were in Washington, D. C. ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't think so.
Mr. Moulder. But you still refer to them as Communist Party meet-
ings?
Mr. Stenhouse. That is what I understood them to be. I am sure
in mv own mind now that I was just on the fringes of this thing,
that>^
Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not describe the meetings in Washington
as being the same tjiye of meetings you attended in Los Angeles?
Mr. Stenhouse. I said they were similar.
Mr. Moulder. Doesn't that mean the same type?
What difference was there between the meetings you attended in
"Washington and those you attended in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I suppose one difference would be that in
Washington, D. C, to the best of my knowledge, all the people present
"were members of the union.
Mr. Moulder. Were they also all employees in the Department of
Commerce ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Eight.
Mr. Moulder. Were any of them employees in your immediate
section ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Moulder. The China Section of the Department of Commerce ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Moulder. Do you, of your oAvn personal knowledge, know
whether any of the persons attending those meetings were members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, they were at the meetings.
Mr. Moulder. Yes; but that isn't my point. They were at the
meetings, but do you know of your own personal knowledge whether
or not they were Communist Party members ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Why I don't know how you identify that exactly.
1 don't recall seeing anybody's card. Again, there was some sort of
-dues payment.
Mr. Moulder. Do you recall hearing any one of them say that they
were members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Stenhouse. I can't remember now Vv-h ether they did or not.
I was there and I thought I was some sort of a member, and I just
assumed — Maybe I shouldn't assume it. But I just assumed they
were.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay dues in this organization or in this
:group ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, again, it was somewhat the same arrange-
ment as before. There were books to be bought and some sort of
dues arrangement.
Mr. Tavenner. To whom did you pay the dues ?
458 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I don't remember who the individual was.-
The money was just — somebody said "Well, here are the books." And
the money was put on the table.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of that group or
attend meetings of that group ?
Mr. Stexhouse. Well, that is the question that you asked before,
and, as I told you, I find it very difficult to pinpoint the time. I think
I can limit it to somewhere near the end of 1945 because of the
fact that I didn't get there until June and I had the operation, and
then my family came out, and we were preoccupied with getting
into a house and things of that sort. And I think it was — I was out
of it by the early part of 1947.
Mr. Tavenner. So that you continued until the early part of
1947? '
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I say it was somewhere in that area. And
I can't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum-
stances under which you stopped attending these meetings?
]\Ir. Stenhouse. Well, the Communist publications that we were
studying seemed to be overready to excuse the Soviet Union and
criticize our country, and this didn't jibe with the ideas that I had had
about the situation during the war. And I just stopped going and
nobody ever tried to get me back in or approached me in any way.
]\Ir. Tavenner. You have said that you cannot recall the names
of any of these people or give any more descriptive information than
you have because of the lapse of time, and the fact that you are
separated now by long distance from the place you were then.
Did anything occur in 1946 or 1947 which would have served to
refresh your recollection as to who these individuals were?
Something that would have called this matter very definitely to
your attention and would have impressed itself on your memory.
Do you recall an3'ihing of an unusual character having occurred?
j\ir. Stenhouse. I suppose you are referring to the fact that I was
investigated or questioned by the FBI.
Mr. Tavenner. That is right.
Mr. Stenhouse. It may have recalled their names to me then, but
it doesn't now,
Mr. Velde. Did you give any names to the FBI when you were
questioned ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No; I didn't.
Mr. Velde. You said it may have recalled some of the names to you
at that time but it doesn't now. If at that time it recalled the names
of people with whom you had associated, why didn't you give them
to the FBI?
Mr. Stenhouse. I declined to state whether or not I had been a
member of the Communist Party in Los Angeles.
Mr. Velde. Do you mean you declined to state to the FBI whether
or not you had been a member of the Communist Party in Los
Angeles ?
Mr. Sit:nhouse. Yes. And, as far as I remember, he told me I
didn't liare to state. I can't be sure of that, but that is my recollec-
tion.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 459
Mr. Velde. Of course, you don't have to tell the FBI anything.
But I am just Avondering what was in your mind at that time — the
reason why you did not give the FBI that information.
Mr. Stenhouse. Tlie reason was that I had, to the best of my
knowledge and conscience, done nothing hostile to the United States.
In fact, I thought that I had been a very loyal and active citizen in
promoting the war effort.
Mr. Tavtenner. \Mien did your employment terminate with the
Department of Commerce?
Mr. Stenhouse. I got my termination notice in October, and it was
effective in November of 1947.
Mr. Tami^xner. What was the reason for termination of your
services ?
Mr. Stenhouse. It stated that I was being relieved due to a reduc-
tion in force.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you stated then your next employment was
with the United Nations. Is that correct ?
Mr, Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, how you ob-
tained your employment with the United Nations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I was trying many avenues to get employ-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. I am referring only to your employment with the
United Nations.
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, there may have been a number of channels
through which I got it, but I think that it may have been through the
Institute of Pacific Relations.
Mr. Taat:nner. A^liy did you appeal to the Institute of Pacific
Relations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Because I had been a subscriber to the Institute of
Pacific Relations, and I knew of the Institute as one interested in
far-eastern affairs. And that, amongst several dozens of business
firms and organizations, seemed to be a likely place to find an occu-
pation in the area where I wanted to be.
Mr. Tavenner. Before going to the Institute of Pacific Relations,
did you have in mind that you desired to secure a position with the
United Nations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No ; I don't think I did. In fact
Mr. Tavenner. Was the suggestion then made to you by the Insti-
tute of Pacific Relations that you seek employment with the United
Nations ?
(At this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Stenhouse. I think it was suggested to me there that this com-
mission was being formed^ — the commission was already in effect, but
that there was this job to do on this subcommittee of trade relations
and that I should contact a Dr. Lokanath. He was an Indian
economist.
(At this point Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to the
hearing room.)
Mr. Stenhouse. I think that may have been the channel through
which it came. I am not entirely certain. But I did contact him and
got the appointment.
460 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Tavenner, Did the person or persons with whom you conferred
in the Institute of Pacific Relations know of your Communist Party
membei-ship ?
Mr. StenhotjSe. No.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you furnish any references to the Institute of
Pacific Relations when you went there to confer on the subject of your
employment ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I think I probably did. You mean a sort of cur-
riculum vitae.
Mr. Tavenner. The real purpose of my question is to find out
whether or not you were reconnnended to the Institute of Public Re-
lations by any person who knew you had been a member of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Stenhouse. No. I went there entirely on my own initiative.
Mr. Velde. Did you know any of the defendants in the Amerasia
case ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Velde. Had you ever met any of them ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Velde. Do you know who it was from the Institute of Pacific
Relations who first interested you in the United Nations?
Mr. Stenhouse. I was interested in the United Nations myself.
Mr. Velde. Naturally, I suppose you were. Was any one person
at the Institute of Pacific Relations responsible for your employment
by the United Nations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. I went to the Institute of Pacific Relations as
one of many, many sources for a new occupation. And in the office
of the Institute of Pacific Relations I was told that there was this
opening. So I applied to the United Nations. I have at home a file
about that thick [indicating] of letters to many business firms that I
wrote to and had interviews with.
Mr. Velde. Do you have any written memorandums or anything
else in writing that would show your contact with the Institute of
Pacific Relations at that time?
Mr. Stenhouse. I have nothing to hide about my Institute of Pacific
Relations contacts. I was a subscriber to the Institute of Pacific
Relations. I thought they were doing a good job of objective report-
ing on the Far East. I was interested in it because of my back^^ound.
While I was in Washington, D. C, I went to several Institute of
Pacific Relations meetings and discussion groups. It was only natural
that that should be one place where I would go to find out if there
was any firm or any organization that was associated with the Far
East who would be interested in my background.
Mr. Velde. Of course, I don't want to cast any reflections on the
individual members of the Institute of Pacific Relations or any others
you have contacted, but I do feel it would be valuable to the committee
if you would make available the various letters you used when apply-
ing for jobs in order that we might search our records. Would you
be willing to make those available ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Do you want me to tell you the names of the people
in the Institute of Pacific Relations ?
Mr. Velde. No. I am not particularly anxious for that. Again,
I want to say if you do mention names of persons in the Institute of
i
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 461
Pacific Relations, it should be no reflection upon them whatsoever
because you, as a former Communist, contacted them.
I am interested in fuiding out who you contacted or who in the Insti-
tute of Pacific Relations reconunended j'ou for a job with the United
Nations.
Mr. Stenhouse. I haven't been asked that question.
Mr. Velde. I ask you that question.
Mr. Stenhouse. If you want to know who it was in the Institute
of Pacific Relations who I think gave me the information, I am very
frank to tell you that it was Mr. Carter.
Mr. Velde. Do you know his first name ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Edward C.
Mr. Velde. Was he in his office at the time you went to the Institute
of Pacific Relations?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Velde. What did he do to promote your appointment in the
United Nations?
Mr. Stenhouse. He may have contacted Dr. Lokanath, for all I
know. I think he possibly did.
Mr. Velde. Did you get recommendations from members of the
Institute of Pacific Relations other than Mr. Carter?
Mr. Stenhouse. No,
Mr. Velde. Did you have recommendations of an}^ kind other than
the Institute of Pacific Relations ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
The chief of my division gave me a very fine recommendation. A
colleague who was in the China legal section gave me a very fine
recommendation.
Mr. Velde. Did either Mr. Carter or the chief of your division
know that you were a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No ; they did not.
Mr. Velde. What type of fonnal application did you make for the
position you sought and afterAvard obtained in the United Nations?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't recall now any formal application. I have
in my files a letter of appointment, but I don't recall a formal applica-
tion.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Comisel.
Mr. Tavenner. After accepting the position with the United Na-
tions, were you sent on a project to China ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Before your selection for that project, were you
interviewed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation ?
Mr. Si'ENHOUSE. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. When was it you were interviewed by the Federal
Bureau of Investigation at which time you refused to advise them as
to your previous Connnunist Party membership ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I think you gave me the date of that the
other day. I had forgotten it.
Mr. Tavenner. Don't you remember it ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No ; I don't. But you said it was in 1946, and I
think it probably was.
Mr. Tavenner. So before you were selected for the position in the
United Nations and, particularly for this project in China, you had
462 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
refused to give infoniuition to the Federal Bureau of Investigation
as to whether or not you had been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stexiiouse. Well, that is true, some nearly 2 years before. By
the time I had applied for the position in the United Nations I didn't
consider myself to be whatever it was I had been before.
Mr. Tavenxer. And no governmental agency, after the FBI came
to see you, ever made any inquiry until the present time ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, that is not so.
Last September I was called by a Treasury representative, and he
told me he wanted to ask me some questions. So I met him at my
home and he started to ask me about the sort of work I did and whether
I ever did much traveling. And in the course of that discussion I
told him that I had been in Washington, D. C. I told him quite
frankly what I had been doing.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you tell liim you had been a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. He didn't ask me.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that the first time you had been questioned
along this line ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes. But he did ask me a question did I know
a certain individual in Washington, D. C. And the name of the man
was
Mr. Tavennph?. I would suggest that you not mention the name in
public. The committee, I think, would want to know privately.
Let me ask you this :
In seeking that information from you, did it have any connection
w ith the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't know what his intentions were at that
time.
Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairnum, under those circumstances,
we should not ask him to state the matter in public when we have no
idea what it is he is talking about.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Stenhouse. You asked me if I had ever been questioned.
Mr. Tavenner. I mean questioned about communism in a Federal
agency and regarding tlie matters under discussion here.
Mr. Stenhouse. I beg your pardon. I thought you meant had I
ever been questioned by an agency of the Government in the interim.
Mr. Tavenner. Of course, we are not interested in whether you
have been interrogated by someone in a Government department on
matters not at all related to the functions of this committee. I under-
stand you to say you have not been.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Stenhouse. The reason I thought you might be interested in
it was that he did ask me a question which related to the Institute of
Pacific Kelations. And since it related to that, I thought that the
committee should know about it.
He asked me if I had ever known (name deleted) .
And first I couldn't remember the name. But then he said, "Well,
didn't you ever go to a luncheon in Washington, D. C, sponsored by
the Institute of Pacific Relations?"
And then I remembered that I had, along with several hundred or
so other people, gone to such a luncheon.
COMjVrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 463
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this being a matter about which we
have no knowledge at all, I believe we are getting into a field that
should not be explored in public without some investigation on our
own part.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, will you step up here, please?
(Mr. Tavenner confers with the chairman.)
Mr. Stenhouse. May I make one concluding remark as to that last
testimony ?
Mr. Moulder. At this time the name you mentioned will be stricken
from the record until further investigation can be made of your last
testimony.
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, this individual, I may say, addressed a large
group of people in what was substantially an open meeting, and re-
ported on
Mr. Ta\-enner. Mr. Chairman, in light of your ruling, I suggest
we not go into that matter at all until the committee staff has had
an opportunity to investigate the witness' last testimony.
Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. Stenhouse. INIr. Chairman, may I make one concluding state-
ment in regard to my last remarks?
When the man who was questioning me heard my report he then
asked me why I was changing jobs. And I said I had no intention to
change a job. And he said, "Did you apply for a job with the Treas-
ury Department?"
And I said, "No."
And he said, "Well, do you know another John Stenhouse?"
And I told him I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the purpose of
the project on which you were sent to China ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I think I have already stated that. Do you want
me to repeat it, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr, Stenhouse. It was to study and report on the rehabilitation of
trade in the Far East.
Mr. Tavenner. And that necessitated your travel in what part of
China?
Mr. Stenhouse. The headquarters were in Shanghai.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you spend all of your time in Shanghai ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No. I was in Nanking — well, while I was with
that particular commission I spent all of my time in Shanghai.
Mr. Tavenner. When was it that you went to Nanking?
Mr. Stenhouse. After 3 months with the Economic Commission I
then was with the Food and Agriculture Administration, and the
Food and Agriculture Administration had an office both in Shanghai
and in Nanking. And it was my duty, as administrative assistant, to
supervise both offices.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the dates you were stationed in
Shanghai, and the dates you were in Nanking?
Mr. Stenhouse. I can't do it. I was back and forth.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the dates which divided your time
between the two places?
Mr. Stenhouse. I think maybe there is a mistake in my previous
•testimony as to dates.
464 COIVUMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Could the recorder
Mr. Tavenner. Rather than to take the time to look that up, if yoif
give us what you consider to be the correct dates now, we will under-
stand if that is different from what you stated before that you are^
thereby correcting the date,
Mr. Stenhouse. I think I went to Shanghai in April — April, May,.
June, with the Commission. And then June, July, August, or some-
thing like that, with Food and Agriculture.
Mr. Ta%^nner. Of what year ?
Mr. Stenhouse. 1948.
Mr. Velde. Were you a member of the Communist Party at that
time, Mr. Stenliouse?
Mr. Stenhouse. No, sir.
Mr. Tavennek. Will you define your duties in the various assign-
ments you held while in China ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, on the Commission it was research and
analysis and reporting, and I wrote a report on the problems of rees-
tablishing interregional trade in the Far East. And it was published'
by the United Nations — not under my name, but incorporated in a
much larger volume.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify the volume and the article for the
use of the committee ?
Mr. Stenhouse. It must have been published. I suppose it was
published in 1949 probably.
Mr. Tavenner. Under what caption ?
Mr. Stenhouse. I don't remember that. It was published by the
Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East as a subsidiary
agency of the United Nations. But my material wasn't any single
article. It was incorporated with a lot of other material by a lot of
other people.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, your article was used as source-
material in the preparation of a report by the United Nations. Is that
what you mean ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. During your assignment in China were you required!
to confer with known members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stenhouse. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Or Communists?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, I want to be frank here, but, first of all, I
would like you to tell me in the context of Chinese people what the
definition of a Communist is.
Mr. Tavenner. Living in China as long as you did, you probably
should understand that.
Mr. Stenhouse. That is very difficult. The longer you live in
China the harder it is to do it.
Mr. Velde. Wei-e yon conferring with the economic leaders in
China when you were on this assignment with the United Nations?
Mr. Stenhouse. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Was China uiider Communist domination at that time ?
Mr. Stenhouse. It certainly wasn't.
Mv. Velde. When was this?
Mr. Stenhouse. 1948.
Mr. Velde. At that time then you didn't actually know whether
you were dealing with Chiang Kai-shek forces or the Red forces?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 465
Mr. Stenhouse. At that time, Mr. Congressman, Shanghai was
still under the Nationalists, and we dealt with officials of the National-
ist Government.
Mr. Velde. Then you certainly wouldn't expect them to be Com-
munists.
Mr. Stenhouse. I wouldn't expect it, but there were many, I sup-
pose— from what I know now — there were Communists in Shanghai
at that time.
Mr, Velde. As leaders in the Nationalist Government ?
Mr. Stenhouse. Well, the reason why I asked for the definition
was we are always running into this problem of what is a Communist.
Mr, Velde. There was nothing wrong in you conferring with Com-
munists at that time ; understand that.
Mr. Stenhouse. I want to answer the question.
Mr. Velde. Or with Nationalists either. That was part of your
duties.
Mr. Stenhouse. I asked for the definition because one of the men
who was a consultant — and I didn't appoint him — to the group that
I was working with was the chief of the Foreign Exchange Depart-
ment of the Bank of China.
Mr. Velde. Do you recall his name?
Mr. Stenhouse.' Yes. Chi Chio Ting.
Mr. Velde. You certainly do have a good recollection as to some
of these people, and you fail to recollect other people, chiefly Com-
munists, with whom you were associated.
Mr. Stenhouse. China is my field. I remember him because he was
related to an area that I have since had contact with. And I remem-
ber him, too, because shortly after — I think it was shortly after I left
Shanghai or while I was still there— he went over to the Peking
Government. And, as far as I know, that is the only contact that I
had in Shanghai with anything that you could call a Communist,
And I don't know that he was.
Mr, Velde. Certainly I am sure, as Mr. Tavenner has very well
stated, that you, being acquainted in China, would certainly have a
lot better knowledge of communism in China than jirobably any of
us here would. I would like to ask if you recognized any of those
associated with you on the United Nations Commission in China as
being what you consider Communists?
Mr. Stenhouse. The answer to that question is "No."
This particular individual was acting only in the capacity of a con-
sultant. And I don't think he was actually a member of the United
Nations, We were consulting with him and people like him because
we were concerned with finance and foreign exchange and so on.
Mr. Tavenner. ]\lr. Chairman, may I suggest that if the committee
desires to go into the Chinese phase of that matter carefully that it
be done at some other time. I believe, with the witnesses we have
here, we would not be able to complete the work that is outlined if
we attempt to go into that matter now. Besides, I think it is a
matter we should discuss with the witness, at least preliminarily,
before attempting to have a public hearing on it,
Mr. Stenhouse. I would be very happy to do that.
Mr. Velde. Let me say this, Mr. Chairman : I am disappointed at
. the witness' lack of memory concerning his early Communist associa-
466 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
tions and his inability to identify the members of the group with which
he associated. However, I do feel that the information the witness
possesses would be valuable to this committee, and he certainly should
be given an opportunity to refresh his memory on any of these aspects
as much as possible.
I w^ould suggest our staff immediately prepare, or start an investi-
gation into the matters related here today so we might hold a future
hearing to secure more valuable information than we have today.
And in that connection I w^ould suggest that the subpena to this
witness be continued until some future date.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Stenhouse, the subpena which was served upoa
you will remain in full force and effect until you are otherwise notified,
or notified to appear here as a witness before this committee in further
open session.
Mr. Stenhouse. Mr. Chairman, may I make a short statement ?
Mr. Moulder. You will not be entitled to make a statement. You
mean you want to ask a question?
Mr.' Stenhouse. I just wanted to refer once more to this matter of
remembering the names. There were not more than 5 of these meet-
ings. They occurred in a context where I was discussing the sanie sort
of subjects in many different groups with many different individuals
with many different points of view. As I said before, I cannot re-
member the names of people with whom I was in daily contact at that
time.
1 have moved out of that part of the country. I have very few asso-
ciations with it. It is entirely impossible for me to drag names out of
the air.
If the committee or its staff wall be able to submit names to me I
will do my best to say whether or not I can remember those people.
Mr. Moulder. That is the purpose of continuing in force and ejffect
your subpena. And you are now temporarily excused as a witness.
("Whereupon the witness was temporarily excused.)
Mr. Moulder, Call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett.
Mr. Moulder. The name of the witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett.
TESTIMONY OF EUGENE VICTOR DENNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, KENNETH A. MacDONALD— Resumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett, I would like you to resume at this
point the identification of individuals who were prominent in Com-
munist Party activities in this area during the period that you were
a member of the CIO council.
Mr. DENNE'rr. Mr. Chairman, there is one fellow that came to my
mind after I left the stand here in connection with the Boeing plant,
a fellow by the name of Sam Telford, who was very well known to
me at that time.
Telford was veiy active in the organization of young people. His
wife, Kate, was one of the principal workers in the office of the Inter-
national Woodworkers of America. I happen to recall that because
Kate and I had one thing in common — we had both attended church
when we w^ere young and had learned a number of hymns. And
whenever social affairs occurred she and I would be singing hymns.
I
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 467
And it seemed to grate on the nerves of the comrades. They wanted
to know if we didn't know some revolutionary songs, and we got a
big kick out of irritating them with that.
I have quit singing, however. My voice doesn't suit for that.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether the first name was Kate or
Kay?
Mr. Dennett. I knew her by the name of Kate, K-a-t-e.
Now the other day Mr. Wheeler asked me to think of the names of
l>ersons whom I knew, and I wrote down those which came to my mind
in an offliand sort of way. Now in speaking of these names I want
to again reiterate my personal moral objection to being called upon
to bring to public notice the names of people whom I did know in the
Communist Party for the reason that I think it is much better for
them to speak for themselves.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. If you can devise some plan for
Communists speaking for themselves without the committee ascer-
taining their names we would be glad to have the suggestion.
Mr. Dennett. Maybe when I get through they might want to.
Mr. Tavenner. I might say the committee has to take the respon-
sibility for asking you these questions, and realizes that it is not being
generously given.
(At this point Eepresentative Harold H. Velde left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Dennett. Well, I make the point of my objection for the reason
that among nearly all of my friends are ])eople who believe in bending
over backwards the other way to protect the good name of any person.
And I fear the consequences to the individuals.
I mean I just hate to be a party to doing anytliing which will in
anywise injure any of them. I trust that the way in which this is
done it will not injure them. However, I know that they are going
to suffer some embarrassment as a consequence of it. However, the
names that I am going to submit to you are persons who were known
to me to be members of the Conmiunist Party, and I am sure they
knew what they were doing when they were iiiembers of the Counnu-
nist Party.
These names are somewhat scattered. In oider to expedite the
business, I think I should go down tln-ough those that I have not
previously mentioned to you, and make their identification so that
we can get on to other matters which I know counsel wishes to cover.
Mr. Tavenner. Please proceed.
(The witness confers with liis counsel.)
Mr. Dennett. Long ago, I knew a man by the name of Kevels Cay-
ton, who was the head of the International Labor Defense.
C-a-y-t-o-n is the last name, ReA^els — R-e-v-e-1-s, the first name.
Later, I laiew Mr. Cayton as an official in the Marine Cooks and
Stewards of the Pacific union.^
Way back in the unemployed days I knew a man by the name of
Iver Moe, I-v-e-r M-o-e.
Iver Moe's importance and significance is that he led an unemployed
demonstration in Anacortes to a privately owned store which had
foodstuffs in its stock, and the populace of Anacortes helped them-
selves. Mr. Moe was one of the leaders of that group, and was prose-
1 This is a reference to National Union of Marine Cooks and Stewards of the Pacific.
I
468 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
ciited for it. He Avas a member of the Communist Party at the time
he did this. He thought he was doing the right thing. iVnd, as a
consequence, he was put on trial and was convicted and sentenced, and
I know that he was turned against the Communist Party as a conse-
quence of that experience.
(At this point Kepresentative Harold H. Velde returned to the
hearing room.)
Mr. Dennett. Another person known to me in the unemployed days
was a lady by the name of Mrs. Harter, H-a-r-t-e-r. Her significance
to me is that she later became the wife of Alex Noral, before he left
here. Pie took her with him as his wife to California.
She was a very active person in the unemployed movement, in the
unemployed councils.
Later on, I knew Mr. Terry Pettus, who was the editor of the New
World, and now the northwest edition of the People's World.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name, please.
Mr. Dennett. P-e-t-t-u-s, Pettus.
Mr. Moulder. Are all the names you are referring to individuals
who once were, or who now are, members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. They were known to me at the time I was in the
Communist Party as members of the Communist Party, and I had
Communist business with them.
Another person's name was Jim Cour, C-o-u-r or C-o-u-e-r. I am
not too sure of that spelling.
But Jim Cour was in an editorial capacity on the old Voice of
Action, which was the predecessor of the present paper, the northwest
edition of the People's World. In between the name changed many
times. At one time they had the New World, and, another time, it
had several different names. But it was the same organization, the
same subscribers, the same leadership. The change of name was in-
tended to more adequately satisfy the attitude of the public toward
political questions at that particular moment.
There was another one by the name of Bill Corr, but his was spelled
differently, and it was C-o-r-r. Bill Corr was in the business manage-
ment end of the paper, the Voice of Action.
Later I knew a person by the name of Huber, L. R. It seems to
me that his first name was Louis, L-o-u-i-s. He served as editor of
the Lumberworkers' paper for a long period of time, that is, the paper
issued by the International Woodworkers of America, at the time
that Harold Pritchett was the president of the organization.
Another person whom I knew was Charles Daggett. Charles Dag-
gett I knew in several different capacities. At one time he was the
city editor of the Seattle Star, a paper which Avent out of business in
Seattle a great number of years ago.
Mr. Daggett later was known to me as an official in the inland-
boatmen's union,^ having become elected business agent in the San
Francisco branch of the organization, and got into financial difficulties
there ; later Avent to Los Angeles. That is the last I heard of him.
Mr. Tavenner. We have seen him since then, and he has testified
before this committee and admitted his Communist Party membership.
Did you know him in this area in any activity within the news-
paper guild ?
1 This Is a reference to Inlandboatmen's Union of the Pacific.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 469
Mr. Dennett. Yes, I knew him in the newspaper guild, but I was
not certain of his Communist Party activity at the time that I knew
him then. I knew him as a Communist just as he left here.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he active in that field in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, he was. He was very active as a newspaperman.
He had a great deal to do with three other newspaper people whom
I became closely acquainted with because of the official position that
they held in the organization.
The first was a person by the name of Ellen McGrath. I have heard
since that she is deceased. But Ellen McGrath was a sort of business
agent for the newspaper guild when it was first organized here, and
I knew her both in the official capacity as a representative of the news-
paper guild and as a Communist actively operating in that field.
I knew her successor in that field, a man by the name of Claude
Smith. Claude Smith was also known to me at that time as a Com-
munist.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Dennett. Yes, he is the one who was expelled from the Party
at the same time that I was subsequently.
I knew another person by the name of Kobert Camozzi, C-a-m-
o-z-z-i. Robert Camozzi was the president of the Seattle CIO council
at the time I was its secretary, and we had official business represent-
ing the council, and also we had official business as Communists.
In the building service union,^ in addition to Mr. Jess Fletcher,
whom I knew quite well because of his work on the district bureau
of the Communist Party, I also knew a man by the name of Merwin
Cole, C-o-l-e. Merwin Cole was one of the business agents of that
union, and was quite well known to me because I had tried very hard
to recruit him during some of the peace demonstrations that the
youth from the university had organized downtown some time in
the summer of 1936, I believe. Or perhaps it was 1935. It may
have been a year one way or the other.
I also knew one of his associates, Mr. Ward Coley, who was a busi-
ness agent in that union, C-o-l-e-y.
I knew another man by the name of Daggett. His name is Herbert
Daggett. He is a brother of Charles Daggett. Herbert Daggett
was known to me as a Communist in the National Marine Engineers'
Beneficial Association. Herbert Daggett was some official there. I
do not recall exactly what it was at that time. I do not know as to
his political position as of the present time either. I do understand
that he is now the president of the Marine Engineers' Beneficial Asso-
ciation with headquarters in Washington, D. C. I repeat that I do
not know what his political attitude is now.
He had an associate in the Marine Engineers Beneficial Association
by the name of Ted Rasmussen. Rasmussen, I am not sure of the
spelling. There are several different ways of spelling that name,
and I am not positive of it. You will have to take the best guess you
can make. But Ted was a member of the marine engineers organi-
zation, and I knew him as a Communist. I am not sure whether I am
the person who recruited him, but I tliink I am because at the time
I first started to work in the Inlandboatmen's Union Ted Rasmussen
., * This Is a reference to Building Service Employees' International Union, AFL, Local
"No. 6.
62222— 55— pt. 2 7
470 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
was the organizer of a dissident group of engineers who wanted to
separate themselves from the existing organization. And I worked
very hard to persuade him not to split the organization, and finally
did prevail upon him, with the assistance of Harry Jackson, who was
the Communist leader in the trade-union field here at that time, and
either Mr. Jackson or mj^self recruited Mr. Rasmussen.
In the lumber organization I recall the name of Ted Dokter,
D-o-k-t-e-r. Ted Dokter was a very able man in the lumber industry,
and we thought he was very efficient, and we liked his work at the
time I knew him. Later, after I ceased to know him personally and
directly, I heard criticism of him to the effect that he did not follow the
party line. So I don't know what has happened to him.
Oi* course. I knew Dick and Laura Law. Both are now deceased.
I have previously mentioned Helen Sobeleski and Gladys Field
who were in the woodworkers' office.^
One of my successors in the Seattle CIO Council was a man by the
name of Artliur Harding. He was known to me. I understand he is
deceased. I have not known of him for several years. But he was
a loyal party member and so was his wife, a Jean Harding, J-e-a-n.
I have previously mentioned Ernie Fox, who was in the Sailors
Union of the Pacific.
Mr. TA^^5NNER. Let me suggest that we not lose time by repeating
any of those that you have already named.
Mr. Dennett. I knew his wife very well. She went by the name
of Elsie Gilland, G-i-1-l-a-n-d. One day a very peculiar thing oc-
cured to me. Mr. Harry Jackson came to me with a request. He said
that he had received an application card from a Mr. Roy Atkinson,
and asked me whether I felt Mr. Atkinson could possibly really mean
to join the Communist Party.
I expressed my belief that I didn't think he could because I had
never seen anything on his behavior which would indicate any sym-
pathy toward the Communist Party. He said, "Well, we have re-
ceived an application from him. We have received dues. Instead
of doing anything about it we will not issue a card to him, and we will
not let him be assigned to any branch. We are suspicious of that ap-
plication. So we will not honor it. Mr. Atkinson was an active
official in the CIO, and I thought that it was quite a ridiculous thing
myself.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you thought that he desired to join
the Communist Party in order to obtain information of its activities.
Mr. Dennett. That was my opinion.
Mr. Tavenner. Rather than to become genuinely a member of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Dennett. Yes.
Two persons who came to this area from the national office were
known very well to me, Mr. Andrew Remes — and I know that that
is not his proper name — but I don't know what his proper name was.
That was a party name. And it was always spelled R-e-m-e-s, as
far as I remember.
One of his associates, wlio also came from the East, was Mr. Lou
Sass — S-a-s-s.
This is a reference to International Woodworl;ers of America (CIO).
COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE. WASH., AREA 471
The committee will probably remember testimony from Mr. Leonard
Wiklman to the effect that he knew me in the Communist Party,
which is correct. I did know him in the Comnumist Party.
I also knew his wife, Muriel. I also knew Elizabeth Boggs, who
gave testimony to the effect that she knew me in the Communist Party.
I knew Mr. 'Harold Johnston, who was on this stand here this morn-
ing. Mr. Johnston was known to me as an active Communist and
a close associate of Mr. Morris Rappaport.
Mr. Velde. Was he a Communist at the time you left the Com-
munist Party, to your best knowledge ?
Mr. Dennett. I had no direct knowledge as to what Mr. Johnston's
position was after I went in the service. I did not know him after
1942-43. But I understand he was quite amused over my remark that
Mr. Rappaport made short work of me. He was in a position to know.
I knew Mr. Glenn Kinney — K-i-n-n-e-y. I knew him over a period
of a great many years. As a matter of fact, he was one of the first
persons with whom I attempted to build a shop unit out in the steel
mill. I wasn't emploj^ed there at the time. I believe he was. I
was an official working here in town, doing full-time work for the
party. Later on Mr. Kinney became a machinist, or I think he was
a machinist actually at that time, but he became a machinist and rose
to the heights in the machinists' union,^ at least to the extent of being
a business agent there several times.
In the old days there was an old man known to me by the name
of F. S. U. Smith. And the reason we called him F. S. U. Smith
was because he made one speech wherever he went, and tliat was to
ask for people to be Friends of the Soviet Union, which was the name
of an organization that he was very ardently supporting. He was a
very loyal man to the party and did the best he knew how and the
best he could.
These that I am scratching off are names that I have previously
mentioned.
Mr. INIoulder. Mr. Dennett, I wish to apologize and thank you for
your patience in being called and recalled, but we previously set the
recess at 3 : 30. Do you mind at this time if we have a 5-minute recess
and resume the hearings after it ?
Mr. Dennett. I would like to finish the names before we recess so
we can take up the other business.
Mr. jSIoulder. All right; let's proceed if you wish to do so.
Mr. Dennett. A very old friend of mine with whom I went to
school — I have no knowledge as to what has become of him now —
but at the time I knew him in the Communist Party he was the sec-
tion organizer in King County. His name is Al Bristol. Al was a
very fine friend of mine, a very patient fellow. I knew his wife
Frances quite well.
Another official that held the position of section organizer here was
Clayton Van Lydegraf — V-a-n L-y-d-e-g-r-a-f. Clayton Van Lyde-
gi-af was one of the officials who took part in my expulsion from the
party, signing the expulsion notice.
Anotlier person whom I knew as a Communist was Mr. Earl
Payne — P-a-y-n-e. The last I heard of him he had been assigned sec-
' This Is a reference to International AssodatlOD of Machinists, AFL.
472 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
tion organizer in the Portland, Oreg., area. Wlien I knew him he had
just returned from serving in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in Spain.
Mr. Philip Frankfeld was sent here by the Central Committee to
take over when Mr. Morris Rappaport was removed, or when it was
known
Mr. Velde. When was Mr. Rappaport removed ?
Mr. Dennett. It was about the time of the outbreak of the war,
shortly after the party had to make modifications in its practices
because of the passage of the Voorhis Act. And Mr. Rappaport had
been born in old Russia at the time of the Czar and was one of those
continuing problems to the Immigration Department because no coun-
try would accept him as a deportee. And the Immigration Depart-
ment could not dispose of him except to hold him in their jail. He
was one of their problems. And the party, in preparation for its super-
patriotic efforts during the Second World War changed its consti-
tution to provide that only citizens of the United States, or persons
who were eligible to become citizens of the United States could be
members of the Communist Party. Wlien that was adopted, Mr.
Rappaport could not qualify, and was removed from office in the
Communist Party.
Mr. Velde. In 1941 or 1942?
Mr. Dennett. Well, it was about in that period. I can't be too
certain of it because I was beginning to fall into some disrepute my-
self, and was being left out of many activities and much information.
Another person well known to me in this period was Mr. John
D-a-s-c-h-b-a-c-h. Daschbach was known to me as a comparatively
young man who worked — I'll be blessed if I know where he worked,
but I know he was always active in the Communist Party activities.
A longshoreman known to me that I failed to mention this morning
was a rather heavy-set fellow who was known to me in a rather
incidental sort of way. I know he was in the Communist Party, but
I know little of any activity that he took part in, a man by the name
of Wayne Mosio. I am not sure of the spelling. I think it is M-o-s-i-o,
It may be z, but I am not certain.
Another longshoreman who was well known to me as a member of
the Communist Party is a person who broke with the Communist
Party and later changed his occupation from longshoreman to that
of lawyer. He went to school while he was longshoring and qualified
to be admitted to the bar.
I know that he was bitterly anti-Communist long before he became
an attorney. I don't know whether you wish his name mentioned
or not, but he was known to me and he certainly was known to the
longshoremen. His name was Philip Poth, P-o-t-h.
A national leader of the party whom I failed to mention before was
Mr. John Williamson, one of the Smith Act defendants who suffered
penalty of conviction and incarceration. He served as the trade-union
section or secretary, replacing Mr. Roy Hudson.
A person who was well known to me in my work of attempting to
organize steel workers into the Communist Party was a section organ-
izer, a man by the name of Charles Legg, L-e-g-g.
Another person known to me as a member of the Communist Party
who later turned up as an informer for the Government and served
as a witness for the FBI was known to me under the name of Doc
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 473
Dafoe. He was employed at tliat time in the steel mill at Northwest
Eolling Mills.
Another person well known to me in the Communist Party many
years ago who was rather mild in his Communist Party efforts when I
knew him and who later turned against the Communist Party was
Dan Adair, A-d-a-i-r. He was in Olympia, his home was Olympian
I also knew his father whose name was Eobin Adair.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean by that you are identifying his father
as a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes ; both of them were members of the Communist
Party at that time. Mr. Dan Adair, the last I heard of him, was
bitterly anti-Communist and has left the State.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to remind you, wherever it is known
to you that a person being identified has left the Communist Party,
that it is only the fair thing to say so.
Mr. Dennett. True.
I believe, sir, that covers all the names that I have not covered
before.
Mr. Moulder. We will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
Mr. Moulder. The committee will please come to order.
Proceed with the witness, please, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett, at the time you were a member of the
CIO Council what union was it that you were representing ?
Mr. Dennett. I was from the Inlandboatmen's Union at that
time.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you have given us the names of those in
that union who were known to you to be members of the Communist
I*arty?
Mr. Dennett. The only ones that I know
Mr. Tavenner. I don't want you to repeat them. I want to make
certain.
Mr. Dennett. The only ones I knew in the Inlandboatmen's
Union — two are deceased.
Mr. Tavenner. We are not interested in that.
Mr. Denneit. I think that is of no value.
There was a person known to me in the Inlandboatmen's Union by
the name of Gene Robel, who was a member of the Communist Party
in the Inlandboatmen's Union. I think that he was one of the wit-
nesses subpenaed before this hearing.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he testify several days ago ?
Mr. Dennett. I believe so.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at a later time become a member of the Steel
Workers' Union ?
Mr. DENNETT.That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. What date did you become a member?
Mr. Dennett. Some time in 1942, I think it was. Yes, it was in
1942.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, if any members
of that union were known to you to be members of the Communist
Part.y.
Mr. Dennett. I have this recollection about that :
Remember now all of that transpired more than 7 years ago. I
have been expelled from the party for the past 7 years, going on 8.
474 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
My recollection is positive about 2 persons. There are others about
whom I have a very indistinct recollection, and I would be afraid to be
positive about. But the two that I can be positive about — one's name
was Andrew Marshall. He was referred to in Barbara Hartle's tes-
timony as Andy. She did not finish the name. He was well known
to me.
Another person was Alex Harding. H-a-r-d-i-n-g.
I know that there were around G or 7 active members of the Com-
munist Party in the steelworkers at that time, but I am so uncertain
about the other names that I would hesitate to mention them for fear
I might be wrong and might speak of the wrong person.
Mr. Tavenner. There are other matters that I wanted to obtain
information about, but there is apparently not time to do it.
I wanted particularly to inquire into examples of discipline exer-
cised by the Communist Party over its members. We shall not have
time to cover that even in a general way, but I know from what you
have said during the course of your testimony that on a number of oc-
casions the Communist Party disciplined you. You have told us of
two occasions so far. I wish you would tell the committee of other
examples of discipline.
Mr. Dennett. Well, the most important one was my expulsion and
that of my former wife.
This occurred after my return from the service. You will recall
that I have previously indicated that by the time I was inducted into
service I was beginning to fall into some disrepute in the party, and
the reason for that was that I had been actively engaged in trying to
develop a struggle for equal rights for Negroes.
I was very much impressed by cases of police brutality against Ne-
groes in the city of Seattle way back in 1940 and 1941. And some
special cases had been brought to my personal attention, and I had
developed a rather broad struggle on behalf of those people through
my connections with the Washington Commonwealth Federation.
Of course, I was trying to build a considerable corps of Negro people
in the Communist Party.
Without going into the detail of that, I simply want to say that my
activities at first met with the approval of the Communist Party, but,
with the outbreak of the war and the changed policy of the Commu-
nist Party, my activities met with the sharp disapproval of the party.
In other words, the party adopted the policy during the war of
subordinating all other things in supporting the war. They had a
slogan of "Subordinate the sectional or local interests to the national
interest." This was quite a sharp change in policy.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you construe that as a sharp interest in the pol-
icy of the United States or of some other country?
JNIr. Dennett. It was not with respect to the policy of the United
States. It was intended to guarantee that the full strength of the
United States would be brought to bear on the side of the Soviet Union
in the war which was then raging with Nazi Germany ; and to guaran-
tee that it would be complete, the Communist Party ordered that the
fight for equal rights for Negroes should be subordinated and that
Negroes would have to wait for their equal rights, they would have
to cease being troublemakers over this question. And they used that
term. They used that term against me, that I was simply a trouble-
maker organizing diversionary interests.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 475
Well, I felt that if the war that was being fought was worth any-
thino- it certainly was worth applying the principle of equal rights
throughout the length and breadth of this Nation of the United States,
especially when I knew of the heavy burden which the Negroes were
carryino- in parts of this country. And I knew that there were some
attitude's around here which were extremely offensive to the Negro
people. They certainly do object to segi^egation, and they certainly
have a right to object to it. •,...-, i ^ r ^i
It is my feeling, and always has been, that it is the duty of the
white people to see to it that they are not treated as inferiors.
So I was pressing that point, and I defied the leadership of the
district in the party to show me anything anywhere which justified
their change of attitude. .
For my militant determination on it I was falling into bad graces
so rapidly that they removed me from the district bureau.
Before I went into the service I also quarreled with them over some
of the literature published under the name of Earl Browder, under
the title of "Victory and After," in which I challenged some of the
contentions of Browder that it was possible to get along with some of
the big capitalists of the United States in the interest of the war effort
and forget the interest of the workers who were employed by those
capitalists, because in too many instances the capitalists were making
enormous profits in the war but the workers were not increasing their
wages.
This was an issue w-hich was of extreme importance to me. i was
working in a steel mill and I felt that the steelworkers' wages at that
time were altogether too inadequate. I think that history smc^ has
borne out the justification of my attitude in it, and I thmk the Com-
munist Party policy which flip-flopped all over the place at that time
has proven how unstable it was, and has proven that it was not genu-
inely trying to improve the condition of the workers.
Mr. Velde. When were you removed from the district bureau of the
Communist Party ? .
Mr. Dennett. Some time in 1941 or 1942, I believe it was. ihen,
of course, I went into the service.
Upon return from the service I tried to become as active as possible
in the party work, tried to restore organization of the party apparatus.
I was first advised by Mr. Andrew Kemes when he came— he had just
returned from the service ahead of me. He advised me that when he
was in the service, evidently, Mr. Huff, who had been left in charge of
the district, had permitted the entire district to collapse, because when
he came back from the service— I am speaking of Mr. Remes— he told
me there was not a single functioning branch of the Communist Party
in the entire district, that it took him several weeks to get together
the membership of any one branch. And he could only do it by leg-
work, walking from house to house, to the old addresses of the people
he knew before he went into the service. And he was dumfounded
tx) find that condition existing.
A^^len he had gone in the service the party numbered m the neighbor-
hood of 5,000 in this district.
In other words, it was baffling to us as to why that thing had
happened.
Later on I came to the conclusion that Mr. Huff was either repre-
senting the Federal Bureau of Investigation or somebody else who
476 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
was as opposed to the party as anybody could be because I couldn't
account for any explanation for that development.
I soon found that I was running into a stone wall. Everything
I proposed by way of reorganization or by way of organizational
activities — I, for instance, felt that a fundamental policy of the party
was to concentrate in the mass production industries, to concentrate
in basic industries. I had always been taught that that was one of
the party's chief concerns.
But, lo and behold, when I approached the district leaders asking
for assistance to concentrate on making a strong party in the steel-
workers, they said, "Oh, we're not interested in them. We have got
other problems that are more important to us than just a bunch of
steelworkers." Which was an attitude expressing to me a certain
contempt for the workers, which didn't go very well because I have
the greatest respect for men who have the audacity to try to work for a
living. And I didn't like this business of people who were sitting
up on top sneering, speaking about the membership in such a cursory
way.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the question of Communist Party activity in
veterans' organizations come up at that time?
Mr. Dennett. Yes ; it did.
Mr. Tavenner. Just touch on it very briefly, please, because we have
very little time.
Mr. Dennett. I was called to a fraction meeting of returned vet-
erns to try to work out some kind of veterans' policy, and some of
these veterans reported boastfully that they had just walked into some
veterans'' posts and had captured the leadership — no trouble at all.
I chastised them for being so naive as to think that the Communists
could capture a veterans' organization when the purpose of the vet-
erans' organization was to oppose the Communist Party. And I told
them they were foolish to undertake such a task and that they shouldn't
embark upon that policy. They told me I was nuts and that they knew
what they were doing because they had the success of having cap-
tured a post.
Mr. Tavenner. Time, however, proved that you were correct, did it
not?
Mr. Dennett. I think it did. ...
Mr. Tavenner. You said both you and your wife were disciplined
by the Communist Party.
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
When I returned from the service it didn't take very long before
rumor was circulated to the effect that I was alleged to be an FBI
agent.
Mr. Moulder. Was your wife a member of the Communist Party,
too?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to say at this point that it is not the
practice of this committee, and it is not my practice to ask a witness
any questions relating to the activities of his wife. There have been
several occasions when witnesses felt that, in order to give the com-
plete story to the committee, it was necessary to speak of their wife's
activities. But when they did, they did it on their own volition.
Therefore, I am not asking you any questions with regard to your wife.
If you mention her it is purely on your own volition.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 477
Mr. Dennett, To explain this disciplinary action I have to advise
that my former wife and I were expelled from the party on the same
document with the same explanation, the same reasons. The docu-
mentary evidence will bring her into this part of it.
And the account which I wish to make about the discipline against
her is of far more importance than the discipline against me, although
i am convinced that the purpose of the discipline was to get me out
of their hair.
It seems as though some people in the district leadership did not
like to be reminded of what the party policy used to be, and they
objected to my reminding them of the zigzags which they had followed
in the intervening period.
I was trying to find some way of bringing them to what I considered
to be the official party position, and they seemed to have an entirely
different attitude than I.
It resulted finally in a series of meetings with the district discip-
linary body known to me originally as a control commission. The last
I heard it was called a review commission. But, in effect, it amounts
to a kangaroo court because, in my case, they started out with this
rumor that I was an FBI agent, asked me to explain it, and all I could
do was explain that my former wife had done something which they
had authorized. And Mr. Huff admitted that he authorized it.
It is true that it ultimately led her to make certain reports which
did contribute to the Avar effort by way of eliminating bottlenecks
which she found in various parts of the war production industry.
But this had been approved by Mr. Huff.
And then when I was on the pan, Mr. Huff first admitted that he
had authorized her to engage in this activity, then later denied that
he had done so, and used the allegation that I was an FBI agent
as the excuse to cause my expulsion from the party, mainly and, in
my judgment, solely because I was in total disagreement with them
on policies relating to civil rights, policies relating to Veterans' Ad-
ministration and veterans' work, and policies relating to organization
in basic industry.
And the civil rights question was extremely important to me be-
cause in the organization of civil rights struggles it was my conception
that if you are going to fight for civil rights you have to fight for
civil rights for everyone. And when we attempted to organize a
civil rights congress at the outset with that purpose in mind, and
that as our declared effort, we were advised that the Communist Party
could not afford to waste its time fighting for civil rights for every-
body, that they were only interested in fighting for civil rights for
members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that one of the matters on which you disagreed
with the Communist Party?
]Mr. Dennett. It certainly was. Mr. Andrew Kernes advised me
personally that tliat was the situation, tlie party was in so inucli diffi-
culty that it had to restrict its efforts to the defense of the Communist
Party and that the Civil Eights Congress was created solely for that
purpose.
I ceased to have any interest in it whatsoever, and, as a consequence,
one thing led to another, and they finally expelled us with a notice on
the earlv week of October 1947.
478 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
]\Ir. Velde. You were removed from the party then. Membership
was taken away from you for about the same reasons that you were
removed from the bureau, from the district bureau ?
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
]\Ir. Velde. That was about 6 years before ?
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Mr. Velde. Do you mean they spent all that time trying to change
your mind about civil rights?
Mr. Dennett. Well, there was an intervening period in which I was
away, you know. I was in the service.
Mr. Velde. That is right.
Mr. Dennett. There were several breaks there.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you were in the service from 1943 practi-
cally through the year 1945.
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. I do not want you to go into great detail, but I be-
lieve the record should be a little clearer on the character of work in
which your wife was actually engaged, which you say was authorized
by the head of the Communist Party.
Mr. Dennett. A stranger approached her and asked her if she
would submit reports to him about any bottlenecks that she found in
war production. He advised her that he had been informed that she
was a very well-informed person, knew a lot of people, and would be
capable of doing this work. She didn't know what to make of it.
So she wrote to me while I was in the service asking my opinion,
and I told her to hold off until I got back on furlough.
At that time I suggested to her that she take it up with the district
leadership of the party, which she did, and got this approval.
The nature of that work she found
Mr. Tavenner. That had nothing to do with reporting to any agen-
cy of Communist Party activities as such?
Mr. Dennett. No; it did not.
Mr. Tavenner. But it was just a matter of reporting things which
interfered with the war effort in industry?
Mr. Dennett. That is true.
Among the things that she found, some of the outstanding things,
was one occasion pertaining to the Takoma shipyards. She learned
by various sources — friends that she knew in the labor movement —
that the shipyard had been in operation for a period of around 10
months or more and still didn't have a ship on the ways. She made
a number of inquiries as to how they could account for such a thing,
and at one point she ran across a name that rang a bell with her.
She started to do a little probing, and found out that this name was
the same as that of a person who had been removed from the navy yard
some time before, either 2 or 3 years before, maybe. It might have been
longer than that. But the person had been removed as a Fascist. He
was known to be a member of a Silver Shirt organization.
Lo and behold, this person turns up as the production supervisor or
superintendent in this particular shipyard.
Anyway, she submitted a report of all the information she had
gathered on the subject. Within a couj)le of weeks' time this person
was removed from his position, and within a short time afterward
ships were on the ways in that shipyard and production started boom-
ing.
COMMXmiST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 479
We could only draw a conclusion that lier information had, certain-
ly, some value,
]\Ir. Tavenner. We will be very much interested to hear of other
occasions, but, because of the shortness of time, we will have to move
on.
The point is, that before undertaking that type of work your wife
conferred with the leadership of the Communist Party and obtained
approval.
Mr. Dennett, That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. Then take it up from there and tell us what occurred.
Mr. Dennett. That was part of the story on which this allegation
of FBI agent thing arose.
When I was first confronted with the story I recounted this whole
thing in every detail to the leader of the section. The person was Mr.
Jim Bourne. Mr. Jim Bourne told me to sit tight, do nothing, say
nothing until I heard from the district.
I waited from March until June 1947, and still had no word from
them. About sometime in June I was invited to a meeting which was
called by the Communist Party for the purpose of preparing its de-
fenses from the anticipated attack which would come from the Can-
well committee investigation which was about to open.
I reluctantly went to the meeting because I felt I was under a cloud.
However, I did go. I am glad I did because they did discuss the whole
question of these investigating committees, and it gave me some insight
as to my rights under the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the
United States. It was thoroughly discussed in this meeting, and we
understood that that was the sole and only real protection that a person
had if he wanted to avoid testifying.
However, during the course of that meeting I spoke to a leader of the
party, asking what was happening to my case. He advised me to speak
to Mr. Huft. I spoke to Mr. HufT about it and Mr. HufT, as a result of
it, arranged a meeting of the control commission.
The control commission called me to a meeting within a week's time.
We reviewed the whole situation, the whole case, and I told them
every single thing I knew about it. They asked me to submit a
written statement. I did exactly that. I detailed everything that
I knew about the situation in the statement.
I declined to sign the statement, however, because at that time I
feared that their practices and methods were a little bit too loose,
and I feared it might fall into the wrong hands and be used against me.
However, they accepted the statement, but they did not like what
was in it.
They called me to another meeting, and at the second meeting
they upbraided me and accused me of everything under the sun,
and we finally broke up in rather a violent battle over whether or
not they were trying to help the working class or not.
That occurred some time in August.
By October Mr, John Lawrie, the chairman of the control com-
mission, visited our home, demanded our books, our party books.
We reluctantly gave them to him, protesting that we understood
that a person had a right to be charged and tried, hear witnesses, and
that sort of thing.
He said, "Well, you will get a statement."
480 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE. WASH., AREA
About a week later we did receive a statement. The statement was
an expulsion notice from the Communist Party.
No charges had ever been actually preferred, no opportunity for
trial had been granted us, and we were blasphemed and accused of
everything under the sun which is looked upon as a crime by the
members of the Communist Party.
This statement was circulated to all the Communist Party sections,
and evidently it reached other hands, because shortly afterward some
security agencies of the Government called me up and asked me what
was going on. I told them I didn't know, and I declined to talk
with any of them, and I have never talked to any of them except on
one occasion when Mr. John Boyd asked that I stop by the Immigra-
tion Bureau Office,
I did stop by there. He asked me a number of questions then, and
I refused to be of aii}^ assistance to him whatsoever at that time.
That was shortly after the expulsion.
Now, the most important part of this disciplinary action is what
I have to say at this time, because immediately after receiving this
notice, we received rumors to the effect tliat the Communist Party
members in the union of which my former wife was the president,
which was the United Office and Professional AVorkers of America,
Local 35 — I heard the rumor that they were going to come into that
meeting that night and demand her removal from the organization.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean that the union members were going to
demand
Mr. Dennett. I heard the Communist Party members in that union
were going to make a demand in that union that my fonner wife
be removed from office and be removed as a member of that union
because the party had disciplined her.
The situation in that union was very peculiar. It was a union of
about 65 members, and there were no more than a half-dozen persons
in it who were not members of the Communist Party.
That seems incredible, but the reason for it is that most of the
persons who were members of the union were working as secretaries
in various union offices, or were w^orking for some individual employer
with whom there were no collective-bargaining contracts and there
were no regular functions of a union. It was simply a home where
these people could pay dues and use the union label wherever they
wanted to for their own convenience. As a matter of fact, that is the
reason why the Communist Party usually uses the union label on its
circulars or letters, because it has members in the Communist Party
office who were members of that union.
This particular expulsion drew the attention of the Communist
Party to us, and especially to my former wife. Tliey knew that the
steel workers union was bitterly anti-Communist. They didn't dare
to try to make any approaches to the steel workers union to have me
thrown out, but they did have absolute control, they thought, in the
office workers union, and they thought they would take their revenge
on my former wife by proceeding against her.
When I learned of this I went to the office of the party and asked
for the district leadership to give me an audience.
They treated me like scum under their feet when I went in their
office because I had just been expelled. However, I did speak to them
and advised them that I heard this rumor, that I urged them not to
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 481
be as foolhardy as that because to do so would attract public attention.
And if that was done it would do irreparable harm to that union and
niig-ht also bring down a great deal of criticism on the entire labor
movement for something for which the labor movement itself was not
at fault but was something for which the Communist Party was at
fault.
I, therefore, asked them if they would be so considerate as to allow
my former wife to resign her position if it was inconvenient for them
to'have her in that position.
She had no desire to remain in it any longer than necessary. She
thought she was rendering them a service and thought she was render-
ing the union a service by holding that position.
But they said they would not take their advice from expelled mem-
bers.
So they proceeded that night to introduce a mimeographed pro-
posal preferring charges against my former wife.
Now I have borrowed this from a person who has kept the file be-
cause he was prevailed upon by my former wife and myself to act
as her counsel during the course of that proceeding, and he kept a
complete file.
I have here the original of the charges that were preferred against
her, and the substance of it is simply this : That they were asking for
my former wife to be expelled from that union and from the office
of president in that union simply because she had been expelled from
the Communist Party on a kangaroo court proceeding. And the names
of the signers are here and in their owm original handwriting. Some of
them have been called before this committee before.
Mr. Velde. Is that for expulsion from the United Office and Pro-
fessional Workers Union or from the party?
I'klr. Dennett. No. This is the charges that were preferred in the
Office Workers Union by members of the Office Workers Union who
were also — they must have been members of the Con^munist Party.
I didn't know of them of my own knowledge, but my former wife did,
and it is in their handwriting. Their names are there in their own
handwriting. And I think the committee would like to know this
and have this as a matter of record.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the names into the record.
Mr. Velde. If you are sure that they are all members of the party.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Dennett. My counsel raised the same question, Mr. Tavenner,
that inasmuch as I cannot testify of my own knowledge about their
membership, that perhaps it is not proper for me. However, this is
the document which was used in that union.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a few preliminary questions.
Were yoli given a written notice of expulsion by the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, we w^ere.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify language in that expulsion notice
as being virtually the same language as in the notice of charges given
by the union to your wife?
Mr. Dennett. It certainly is. In both instances they accuse her
of the crime of being an infonner for the FBI.
482 COMAIUXIST ACTR'ITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. We will not take time now to analyze those docu-
ments, but I would like for them to be in evidence, and, in light of the
fact that the names signed have not been shown by evidence to be
members of the Communist Party, I ask that that part of the docu-
ment be deleted until investigation has established whether or not
they are members of the party.
Mr. Moulder. As requested by counsel, without objection, it is so
ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like for the document to be marked "Den-
nett Exhibit No. 10."
(The document above referred to, marked "Dennett Exhibit No. 10,"
is filed herewith.)
Dennett Exhibit No. 10
We, the undersigned, prefer charges against Harriette Dennett, President,
United Office and Professional Worliers of America, Local 35, for violation of the
Constitution of the National Union under the following Articles :
Akticle II, Section 3. "No person whose intf^rests are deemed to lie with the
employer as against the employees shall he eligible for memhership."
Article II, Section 5, Obligations of Members. "... to bear true allegiance
to, and keep inviohite the principles of the union ; . . . and to promote the inter-
ests of our members in harmony with the best interests of our country."
Article VI, Section 9, Obligations of Local Union Officers. "... to perform
all your duties as required by the laws of the Union and the instruction of the
membership . . . and that yon will do everything in your power to forward the
interests of the organized labor movement."
We have certain evidence clearly revealing that Harriette Dennett has made
regular reports to the Federal Bureau of Investigation over a long period of time
for which she has received payment. We are convinced that no honest trade
unionist would have connections with any police body, especially the FBI, and
still serve the best interests of the Union.
Let us examine the role of the FBI. Organized labor recognizes that law
enforcing agencies are absolutely necessary in the protection of public and private
property, prevention of crime, and safeguarding our welfare. However, various
police bodies, both Federal and local, have always allied themselves with the
employers in e(?onomic struggles. In strikes, the U. S. Army and National
Guard have smashed picket lines and arrested union leaders, and, in conjunction
with the courts, have framed them, had them imprisoned, deported, and even
executed.
The FBI especially, acting as the undercover arm of these police forces, while
it has done a commendable job in the apprehension of criminals, has constantly
used its prestige and power in aiding employers and local police agencies in their
efforts to weaken and destroy unions by hunting down progressive and militant
trade unionists and having them blacklisted from their jobs.
In the Bridges Case, witnesses were either paid or intimidated by the FBI to
testify falsely. They did not hesitate to use wiretapping, dictographing, and
other devices, although illegal. At the present time, John Santos, long-time
leader of the Transport Workers Union, is undergoing an ordeal very similar to
that of Bridges. Strenuous efforts are being made to deport him because he has
earned the enmity of poweful transit and utility corporations. He is charged
with being an alien "red." And, once again, the FBI is playing a key role in
this hearing by rounding up questionable anti-labor characters to testify against
him.
According to the La Follette Civil Liberties Committee, the Pinkerton Detec-
tive Agency was found to have 300 operatives enrolled in unions as members,
of whom at least 100 ircre union officials — of them 14 presidents of locals, one
national vice-president, 14 trustees, and 20 local union secretaries.
We are at present witnessing an attack upon a union in our own city as a
result of the combination of discredited labor leaders, the un-American Canwell
Committee and the Seattle P-I and its FBI agent and strike-breaker, Fred
Niendorff.
Today, Labor is faced with and all-out offensive of the profit-greedy NAM
They are determined to bring wages down while continuing to raise the cost of
J
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 483
living. This attaclf on the peoples' living standards is most serious to the thou-
sands of greatly underpaid white-collar workers.
To accomplish this union-busting program, the most vicious antilabor legisla-
tion, such as the Taft-Hartley law has been passed, and the Un-American Activ-
ities Committee, the little Dies Committees and numerous other government
agencies — all in conjunction with the FBI — are engaged in a witch-hunt against
labor.
Let us recall that it was not until trade unions were made impotent in Germany
that Hitler dared to embarli on the road to concentration and extermination
camps.
The National CIO has condemned the Department of Justice for conducting a
"gumshoe" probe of CIO political expenditures. President Philip Murray has
reported "furtive operations and dramatic unearthing of clues by the FBI . . .
which can have only the objective of harassing and intimidation."
Anyone worldng with the FBI or with any of the above-named antilabor
committees or against the l)est interests of the union must clearly be labeled an
enemy of labor and removed from membership in any labor organization to which
he may belong.
Tlieiefore, in pursuance of the procedure established by Section I, Article XV,
which states that any elective or appointive officers of a local union may be
removed from office subject to provisions of this Article for any violation of this
Constitution "or because of the commission of an act impairing the usefulness
of the organization, " we are presenting these charges, and demanding the expul-
sion of Harriette Dennett from UOPWA 35. We call upon our Union to immedi-
ately set up a trial committee to investigate these charges and report back its
findings to a special membership meeting to be called for action by the member-
ship.
uopwa 3-5 cio
Mr. Tavenner. And I would like also to introduce in evidence at
this time the expulsion notice that was given you, and ask that it be
marked "Dennett Exhibit No. 11."
Mr. Moulder. As requested by counsel, without objection, it is so
ordered.
(The document above referred to, marked "Dennett Exhibit No. 11,"
is filed herewith).
Dennett Exhibit No. 11
Notice of Expulsion
To All Sections, Clubs, and Members of the
Northwest District Communist Party, U. S. A. :
This is to notify all Sections and Clubs of the expulsion from the Communist
Party of Eugene V. Dennett, Harriet Dennett, and Claude Smith.
In the case of Eugene Dennett and Harriet Dennett, the expulsion is based upon
violation of the conditions of membership in the Communist Party as set
forth in Article 9, Sections 1, 2, and 4 of the Constitution of the Communist
Party, U. S. A., based upon the following facts established by the District
Review Commission :
1. Admitted employment of Harriet Dennett by an agency of the F. B. I.
and the submitting of regular reports to said agency over a long period of
time, with the knowledge and consent, and direct participation of Eugene
v. Dennett. This was established by his admission of personal contact with
a known agent of the F. B. I. and his concealment from the Party of Har-
riet Dennett's activities and his own personal contact with the F. B. I.
2. Admitted personal and political relations by Eugene V. Dennett with
known Trotskyites with established participation by Harriet Dennett.
3. An established record of anti-party, disruptive, and provocative activity
by Eugene Dennett on numerous occasions and by Harriet Dennett in
several instances.
In the case of Claude Smith, the expulsion is based upon violation of the
conditions of membership in the Communist Party as set forth in Article 9,
Sections 1, 2, and 4 of the Constitution of the Communist Party, U. S. A., and
based upon the following facts established by the District Review Commission :
484 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE. WASH., AREA
1. Admitted participation in tlie preparation of the reports submitted by
Harriet Dennett to the Agency referred to above as well as sharing in the-
payment for those reports and concealment of these activities from the
Party.
The District Review Commission wishes to call to the attention of the Party
membership and Its organizations the necessary conclusions from these facts.
First, in this case as in many in the past, a negative, carping attitude toward
the Party and its program has upon investigation disclosed enemies of the Party
and the working class.
The same thing must be said of toleration and association with Trotskyites who
are simply fascists hiding behind "left" phrases. While such attitudes may be
due to lack of understanding in new members, in the case of experienced long
time members it can only be regarded as conscious assistance to fascism and
to the agents of fascism. It must he noted also that the personal record of these
people is marked by individualism instability and extreme egotism.
The District Review Commission also wishes to point out that it is necessary
to learn to distinguish between honest differences of opinion which we have to
constantly resolve by discussion and majority decision and disruptive, dis-
honest attacks upon the program activities and leadership of the Party, which
is the earmark of the provocateur and agent of the enemy. Only by more
resolutely defending and fighting for the program of the Party can we make
this distinction clear. Only by becoming more alert to the smell of anti-Party
poison can we root out these disrupters. Only by fighting for the unity of the
Party and testing our cadres struggle can we create guarantees that such
elements will not remain long in the Party or be able to steal into its posts
of leadership, and that the damage that they do will be reduced to a minimum.
Harriet Dennett is at present holding the position of President of the Seattle
UOPWA Local Union No. 35. Eugene Dennett is a member of the Board of
Control of the New Wordd and a member of the Steelworkers Union. Claude
Smith is at present editor of the Washington State CIO news.
All Party members are warned against personal or political association with
these expelled members and to give them no consideration or comfort in the-
excuses and protests they can be expected to make against the expulsion action
which was ordered carried out b.v unanimous vote of the Northwest District
Committee in executive session on October 6. 1947.
Signed :
Henry Huff,
District Chairman,
C. Van Lydegraf,
District Orig. Sec'y,
For the Northivest District Committee Communist Party, U. 8. A.
uopwa No. 35.
Mr. Velde. There is one question I would like to ask you, Mr. Den-
nett, about your expulsion and your wife's. You probably recall the
argument that took place within the ranks of the Communist Party
during the change from the Communist political association to the
militant type of organization it was before.
Did you or your wife engage in any of those arguments after the
receipt of the Ducios letter ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes, we did.
Mr. Velde. I am interested in that, if you will please be as brief as
you can.
Mr. Dennett. I will do my best, sir.
I was still in the service at the time. This occurred in New Orleans.
Mv wife was still doing this same work in New Orleans.
Mr. Velde. Was that in the middle of 1945 ?
Mr. Dennett. That is right, in May and June of 1945.
And with the publication of the Ducios letter in the Daily Worker,
which my wife was a subscriber to at that time, we observed that
something tremendous was taking place within the party. And she
made contact with some of the party people in New Orleans.
When they found that we had an interest in it, they invited us tO'
the meetings where this discussion took place. And I was quite
COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEAIT^LE, WASH., AREA 485
startled to find that the general criticism was mainly directed at the
bureaucratic attitude and dictatorial policies pursued by Mr. Earl
Browder. I was flabbergasted because I did not have that conception
of him, and I was quite surprised as a result of it. And, of course,
you know the rest of the story, which was published.
Mr. Velde. In other words, you and your wife both took the side
of Earl Browder ?
Mr. Dennett. I wouldn't say that my former wife took the side of
Earl Browder. I wouldn't say I took the side of Earl Browder
either because I was not in the party at the time. I was simply a
visitor invited, and I was mainly surprised. I questioned the re-
ports that people made. I didn't pass judgment on it. I simply
could hardly believe the criticism which I heard.
Mr. Velde. It appears to me from your testimony that you were
probably sort of independent in this matter of following the Commu-
nist Party line as handed down from Soviet Russia, and that was prob-
ably one of the chief reasons why you were expelled. Is that not
right? You w^ould not follow the party line? You thought for
yourself.
Mr. Dennett. I thought I was following the party line, and I
thought the leaders around here were zigzagging all over the lot, and
they didn't know what the line was. They thought I was nuts. I
thought they were nuts.
Mr. Velde. Maybe you were just like Trotsky or Lovestone. You
just didn't happen to be in the ruling class as far as the party line
was concerned.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Chairman, we have just checked the names
on exhibit No. 10, and find that all of the persons whose names ap-
pear there have been identified in testimony before this committee
as Communist Party members. Therefore, I see no reason for restrict-
ing that document in any way in its introduction in evidence.
Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered. Do you wish to read the names?
Mr. Tavennee. I desire the witness to read the names.
Mr. Denneti\ Alice Kinney, known to me before as Alice Balmer,
B-a-1-m-e-r; Tmdi Kirkvvood, Helen Huff. Helen Huff was known
to me as the wife of Henry Huff, who was the district organizer of
the party, and Helen Huff' was one of those persons to whom I spoke
when I requested that they allow my former wife to resign, but they
would have nothing to do with that. They wouldn't allow it. They
wanted to make an example of her. Hallie Donaldson, Vivian Stucker,
S-t-u-c-k-e-r, Jean E. Hatten.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dennett, are there any other facts relating to
your expulsion which would be of interest to this committee?
Mr. Dennett. I think, Mr. Tavenner and members of the com-
mittee, that there are probably many. But, in view of the pressing
time, I think that this is sufficient to give you the picture, and, if you
want to go into more detail at a later time when you have more time
available, I think maybe we could do that. I have said all I think I
need to say at this time.
Mr. Tavenner. After your expulsion have you been identified with
the Communist Party in any way ?
Mr. Dennett. No, sir; I have not.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee had information indicating that you
may poasibly have become a member after your expulsion, or even
62;i22— 55— pt. 2 8
486 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
prior to that, of the Socialist Workers Party. And the information
that the committe-e had in that respect was a nominating petition of
that group signed by ^''ou.
We would like to know whether you were at any time a member of
the Socialist Workers Party.
Mr. Dennett. The answer is very simple. I was not. I never have
been a member of the Socialist Workers Party.
The occasion for that signature on that nominating petition is the
result of a request from the Socialist Workers Party leader, Mr.
Daniel Roberts, who was the leader at that time, that 1 sign a nomi-
nating petition to permit their candidates to get on the ballot.
In the State of Washington a provision is in the election laws
allowing nominating petitions to be signed by a minimum of 25 people
who are qualified voters who did not vote in the primary. In other
"words, it is equivalent to casting a vote.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Socialist Workers Party endeavor to recruit
you as a member ?
Mr. Dennett. Yes. Mr. Daniel Roberts tried time and time again
to recruit me, thinking that my vast experience in the Communist
Party gave me plenty of background to qualify me if I would simply
change my thinking with respect to certain fundamental ideas which
were points of difference between the Socialist Workers Party and the
Communist Party. However, I never was able to accept all of the
ideas which Mr. Roberts and some of their national leaders to whom
he introduced me — I could never resolve all of the policies which they
advocated to my own thinking.
And the whole experience caused me to go back and question and
challenge the validity of the theoretical basis upon which the Commu-
nist Party was organized and upon which it operated. And it caused
me to reach the conclusion a long time ago that it is very inadvisable
for anyone to commit his political fealty to anyone or any organization
that he doesn't understand in full. And I do not to this day com-
pletely understand the Socialist Workers Party.
Mr. Tavenner. I noticed in some of the earlier documents intro-
duced in evidence that reference was made to you when the Communist
Party was critical of you as being a Trotskyite.
Mr. Dennett. That is true. Remarks were made about me on a
number of occasions. And, as near as I can make out, the reason for
it is I was asking embarrassing questions. It seems as though Trotsky
did that against Mr. Stalin in the Soviet Union — when everyone
especially was interested in a democratic procedure that went contrary
to Stalin's rule. His rule was that you had to accept his decision
whether you liked it or not. And that is the rule of democratic
centralism, a principle with which I am in total disagreement today.
I thought for a long time that that was a wonderful principle. I had
read Lenin's writings on the subject. I thought that his explanations
were quite good. But once I had had service in the military, once
I knew what military organization was like, I recognized the principle
of democratic centralism as the application of military rule to civilian
life. And I am strictly opposed to it.
Mr. Tavenner. In light of your experience in the Communist Party,
and from your study of the Socialist Workers Party, would you please
state as briefly as you can the principal differences between these
organizations as you understood them.
COlVDMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 487
Mr. Dennett. One of the principal differences lies in the fact that
the Socialist Workers Party people accused the Communist Party
people, in particular Stalin and Stalinism, of having deserted the
principle of socialism, of internationalism, accusing Stalin of degen-
erating into nationalism. That is when he developed the so-called
theory of the possibility of developing socialism in one country alone.
Mr. Tavenner. That country being the Soviet Union.
Mr. Dennett. That country being the Soviet Union.
The Trotskyites maintained that Stalin was thereby deserting the
cause of internationalism and that he would think first of the in-
terests of the Soviet Union, and later, if at all, subordinate the in-
terests of the world working class to building the Soviet Union at the
cost of letting the working class in other countries go by the boards.
In other words, if a revolutionary situation developed in some other
country Stalin would exert his power to prevent the success of the
revolution in that country for fear that it would detract from the
success of the Soviet Union.
Mr. Tavenner. Unless, of course, such a revolution would
strengthen his power and his regime in the Soviet Union. Wouldn't
you make that qualification?
Mr. Dennett. That might be a consideration. But all history, all
experience since the Second World War would indicate that Stalin
at no time approved successful revolutions in any country. He op-
posed revolutionary effort of the Yugoslavs. He opposed the revolu-
tionary effort of the Communists in Greece. He opposed the revolu-
tionary effort of the Chinese Communists. He even made commit-
ments, and part of the deal which people seemed to be so concerned
about at Yalta and Potsdam and Cairo and Casablanca involved Stalin
making commitments to Eoosevelt and Churchill to the effect that the
Soviet Union would use its influence to suppress the revolutionary
effort of the workers in the various countries that were on the brink
of revolution.
And that is why when the Soviet Eed Armv marched into those
border countries in eastern Europe they did not attempt to create a
Soviet revolution. They, instead, created something they called peo-
ple's democracies. But they were established in some instances with
the aid of the Red army marching in, and the people in those coun-
tries had nothing to say about it.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the attitude of the Trotskyites as to Sta-
lin's agreement with reference to Greece, for instance?
Mr. Dennett. They accused him of betraying the working class
not only in Greece but in the Soviet Union because he was ruling in
the Soviet Union with such an iron hand that workers there were being
suppressed. They were being forbidden from enjoying the efforts
they were putting in to build a Socialist country. In fact, they were
being deprived of the fruits of what was intended to be socialism. In
fact, the Trotskyites, as I understand, their philosophy in the matter
is that the Soviet Union has suffered from an arrested develoi:)ment —
it is not truly Socialist ; it has not been permitted to become Socialist,
and that the biggest crime Stalin committed was to pretend and hold
the Soviet Union up to world view as a Socialist country when, in fact,
it was not a Socialist country.
I also came to the conclusion, as a result of some of the theoretical
material I read in about 1946, where Stalin was insisting that, in-
488 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
stead of the authority of the state withering away as predicted in
the writings of Engels and Lenin, that Stalin insisted that the au-
thority of the state must increase, that the police power must be in-
creased in the Soviet Union to make sure that they would continue
in an ordered fashion, which certainly was contrary to all the earlier
writings on the theoretical subject of the development of the state.
Mr. Tavenner. It has been demonstrated time and again, has it not,
to your satisfaction, that Stalin has endeavored to use international
connnunism as a tool in order to advance his own foreign policy which
necessarily, of course, meant his strengthening his own position in
the Soviet Union.
Mr. Denneti'. It certainly is,
Mr. Tavenner. There are many other matters that I would have
liked to have gone into with you, but I must terminate the examina-
tion. I do not like to do so without giving you an opportunity to
state anything that may be in your mind about the effect of your
experience in the Communist Party or your present attitude toward
the Communist Party.
I am not insisting that you do, but I merely want to give you the
opportunity.
Mr. Dennett. My counsel has already advised me to be very brief.
I am very appreciative of the suggestion because the hour is late, and
I want to thank you for the opportunity you have given me to make a
statement.
The only statement I would make at this time is some elaboration
over what I started to say earlier when we were talking about what
steps to take to protect yourself against this sort of deception.
I am sure that some people in hearing the account which I have
given by way of testimony before this committee may gather the
impression tliat I learned quite a little bit about deception. And I
am sure that some people were quite firmly convinced that I would
do nothing except deceive this committee when I appeared before it.
I wish to assure you that I have testified to the best of my ability
about the facts that I know and facts which I can substantiate with
documentary evidence in my own records.
Those records are available to the committee. They have been made
available to the committee, and I undei*stand that you intend to have
the United States marshal pick them up and place them in protective
custody where they will be available for me for further study and
also to yourself.
I simply recite that as some indication that in my testifying before
you the only reservation that I have is that I still have some mis-
givings about this kind of procedure because I fear that we are
needlessly hurting individuals when we name them in such vast num-
bers as the committee has called upon me to do.
I think that some means needs to be found to change that procedure.
And I believe that there will be more information of value to convinc-
ing the general public and to assisting the Congress, by way of its
legislative effort, if a better effort is found.
And I hope that you will seriously pay attention to the recommen-
dations of the American Civil Liberties Union in this regard. I think
their recommendations deserve your worthy consideration.
I think, gentlemen, that is about all that is needed for me to say at
this time. I can onlv sav that I am available for whatever further
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 489
work that you wish to do with me. I do not want anyone to think
that they are going to make a professional witness out of me. I
have no intention of being a professional witness. I would like to be
able to live in peace and quiet because my own health will not permit
me to do all the other things that need to be done.
j\Ir. Moulder. Mr. Dennett, as chairman of this committee, and on
behalf of counsel, Mr. Tavenner, and Mr. Wheeler, and I believe I
should presume to express appreciation also on behalf of the full com-
mittee on Un-American Activities, the Congress of the United States,
and the people of America for your honest, courageous, patriotic, and
convincing testimony and information concerning communistic
activities.
Your comprehensive and intelligent testimony is not only revealing
but has been ably presented by you in a patriotic and conscientious
spirit and duty to your country and also to yourself.
We commend you for your appearance and conduct before this com-
mittee as an example— and I emphasize this — as an example of how
any and all former Communist Party members can clear tliemselves
of any doubt whatsoever concerning their loyalty to the United States
of America.
And, speaking for myself, I am glad I had an opportunity to observe
your conduct on the witness stand, and, having heard your testimony,
I am deeply impressed by the valuable information you have given to
the committee.
Mr. Velde, do you have anything?
Mr. Velde. Yes, Mr Chairman. I don't think I can add too much
to your very fine statement.
Let me say that I concur Avith our distinguished friend from Mis-
souri in his statement about your testimony.
I happened to be here last year when you refused to testify. I think
I mentioned earlier — last Thursday — that you would have a lot more
friends after you got through testifying than you had before or dur-
ing the time that you appeared here last time, and I sincerely hope
that that is true. I believe it will be.
The reason, of course, that we were not able to hear your testimony
at the sessions here last June was that we had too many other witnesses
subpenaed to be heard as we do apparently this time, Mr. Chairman.
Let me say that I think you have made a great addition to the
information that is already on fde concerning the activities of the
Communist Party. But, chiefly, you have made a gi^eat contribution
in substantiating, in large part, the testimony that was given by Mrs.
Barbara Hartle and other witnesses who gave information here last
June. For that we are very appreciative.
I want to say just a word about Mrs. Hartle.
As you know, she is presently serving in the prison in West Virginia,
a Federal j^enitentiary in West Virginia.
I think she certainly exhibited a great deal of courage and a great
deal of American spirit in giving the testimony that she did.
Mr. Dennett, as far as the particular testimony you have given
about your expulsion from the Communist Party is concerned, the
experience that you had is similar to the experience of other persons
wlio have been expelled from the Communist Party.
I think, of course, that you should be proud to have been expelled
by the Communist Party. And 1 trust that, while you miglit at
490 COlVITvIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
times find yourself in the same position of following tlie same line
that the Communist Party does at the present time, that you no longer
cling to the philosophy that Me know the Communist Party repre-
sents here in the United States, that is, the philosophy of the Soviet
Union, which intends of course, to rule the world eventually, whether
it be by changing governments by peaceful means or by overthrowing
it by force and violence.
We say it has been a great pleasure to hear your vei*y fine testimony,
and let me say also that I agree that you have been a very intelligent
and truthful witness.
Mr. MouiJ^ER. With our thanks and gratitude, you are excused.
Mr. Dennett. Thank you, sir.
I wish to say, upon my bein^ excused, that I want to extend my
greatest appreciation to the patience of Mr. Tavenner, who has been
the counsel to examine me. It has been a pleasure to work with a
gentleman who is as well versed and who knows what he is doing
as well as Mr. Tavenner.
And I want to thank Mr. Wheeler for the patience that he had, and
the committee as well.
Mr. Moulder. Call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Abraham Cohen.
Mr. Moulder. Hold up your right hand.
Mr. Photographer, when you take your picture, would you stand-
to the right or left so I can swear the witness.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
before this congressional committee will be the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Cohen. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ABRAHAM ARTHUR COHEN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, EDWARD E. HENRY
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Cohen. Abraham Arthur Cohen.
(Whereupon a brief disturbance occurred in the corridor outside-
the door of the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Let's proceed.
Mr. Moulder. Please be seated. We will have order in the hearing
room, please.
Mr. Tavenner. Will everyone be seated, please.
Mr. Moulder. No j^ictures will be taken, please.
Mr. Tavenner, Will you seat those people at the door, and close
the door, please.
I note you are accompanied by counsel. Will counsel please identify
himself.
Mr. Henry. Edward Henry, of the Seattle bar.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not going to take the time to ask you various
questions which I know the committee is interested in asking you
because of the lateness of the hour. I will confine my questions to
just 2 or 3 matters. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Cohen. I am not.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Cohen. I have been.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 491
Mr. Tav'enner. Over what period of time were you a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Cohen. From early in — well, I believe July 1937 until I left
for the Armed Forces in March of 1942, and then upon returning
from the war, oh, some time early in 1946, I would say, until Jan-
uary 1, 1951.
Mr. Tavenner, Have you been a member of the Communist Party
since 1951?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. I believe you are one of the few, if not the only
person in the United States, who registered as a member of the Com-
munist Party upon the adoption of the Internal Security Act of 1950.
Mr. Cohen. It wasn't a thing of which I was ashamed. I felt I
was in the party. I felt that what I was doing was the right thing.
I had no conscientious qualms about belonging to it. I felt what we
were doing was right. And everything that I saw — nothing I saw
led me to believe that it was subversive. I felt it was — what we were
doing was in the interest of the workingman.
Mr. Tavenner. Our purpose in subpenaing you was to ask you
certain facts we think are within your knowledge regarding Com-
munist Party activities. You have indicated a full desire, a willing-
ness to give the committee the facts that you have. You have given a
a written statement to the staff.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not going into any of those matters now
because they are here available for us. But, out of fairness to you,
1 want to give you the opportunity to make any further statement
you desire regarding your own attitude toward the Communist Party.
Mr. Cohen. Do vou feel that I haven't stated my position enough
in that brief?
Mr, Tavenner. We would ask you additional questions if we had
time to do it, and we may do that later. But for the present I want
to be certain you have an opportunity to tell the coimnittee anytliing
further that is on your mind that might be of some benefit to yourself.
Mr. Cohen. Well, I felt that my desires on leaving the party wer&
that I was in it primarily because of its connection with the trade-
union movement. It helped the Guild in the early days to organize.
Mr. Tavenner. And you function within the American Newspaper
Guild?
Mr. Cohen. That is right.
I felt it did a worthwhile job there. And a great many people —
Communists and non-Communists — benefited thereby. After the war
the situation changed.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not sure that he is through.
Mr. Cohen. I am ready to quit talking at any time.
Mr. Tavenner. This is your time to talk if you want to.
Mr. Cohen. After the war I felt that we were in a — we were ex-
tending the neighborhood branches, and that the trade union, the
time for trade union action was past. We didn't function in trade
union matters. My working hours were changed, and I no longer
was — I rarely attended meetings. I really lost what contact I had.
And the act that finally culminated in my leaving was the fact that
I wanted to take a trip aboard, and under one of the provisions of
492 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH,, AREA
the McCarran Act it required that no Communist should be gi'anted
a passport.
And so I wanted to visit scenes of where I had been during the war,
and I expLained to the party that I wanted to leave. And it startled
them, I admit, reasonably- But I succeeded in resigning. And there
have been no repercussions since.
Mr. Velde. Do I understand you have been, and are willing at any
time to make available any information you have relative to your
activities in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I am. I will say — before anybody even talks to
me— there weren't very many. There were very few ; there weren't
very many.
Mr. Veij3E. But are you willing to make those available to us?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Velde. And, of course, we would be willing to hear you at
length if we had the opportunity to do so.
Mr, Tavenner. In light of the witness' statements, I have no fur-
ther questions.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have any further statement you wish to
make, Mr. Witness ?
Mr. Cohen. Nothing further to say.
Mr. Moulder. Then you are excused as a witness.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. May I call Mr. Dennett to the front of the rostrum
for a moment?
TESTIMONY OF EUGENE VICTOE DENNETT, ACCOMPANIED BY
HIS COUNSEL, KENNETH A, MacDONALD— Sesumed
Mr, Moulder. Mr. Dennett.
Mr. Dennett. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. It has been my suggestion, after conferring with
counsel, that probably it would be best that we revoke and withdraw
our order excusing you from the force and effect of your subpena,
and keep your under subpena.
Mr. Dennett. I still have it.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I believe there may be a legal techni-
cality involved, and I ask that the witness be resubpenaed. So there
will be no question about it.
Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. That is a matter of protection to the witness.
Mr. Velde. I think we ought to make this additional statement,
that the reason for resubpenaing you is so that you might be within
the protection of the United States Government in case anything arises
as apparently happened out here a few minutes ago.
Mr. Moulder. That is our only purpose in issuing another subpena.
Mr. Dennett. Thank you.
Mr. Moulder. Call the next witness.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bernard Freyd.
Mr. Hatten. May I request the Chair to ask the photographers
not to take pictvires ?
Mr. Moulder. We will have order in the hearing room.
Mr. Hatten. Will you please not take any picmres ?
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Hatten.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 493
Mr. Hatten. I would like to request, Mr. Freyd does not like to
have his picture taken in the hearing room. Would you so direct
the photographers?
Mr. Moulder. Very well.
The photographers will please refrain from taking pictures of the
witness approaching the witness stand.
Hold up your right hand and be sworn, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to
give before this congressional committee will be the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you, God ?
Mr. Freyd. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BERNARD FREYD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
C. T. HATTEN
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name ?
Mr. Freyd. Bernard Freyd — F-r-e-y-d.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Hatten. My name is C. T. Hatten. I am an attorney residing
in Seattle.
Mr. TA\rENNER. When and where were you born, Mr. Freyd ?
Mr. Freyd. I was born in Seattle in 1893.
Mr. Tavenner. "What is your occupation ?
Mr. Freyd. I am not employed by anyone.
Mr. Tavenister. Will you tell the committee, briefly, what your for-
mal educational training has been.
Mr. Freyd. I went through the public-school system, high school of
this city, and University of Washington.
Mr. Tavenner. "When did you complete your educational training
at the University of Washington ?
Mr. Freyd. It was about the year 1930.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, how you have
been employed since 1935 ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Freyd. I had no regular employment until the outbreak of
the war, and I worked in various war plants until I was incapacitated
by an accident in 1943.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. What was your business between 1930 and the out-
break of the war ?
Mr. Freyd. Well, I was unemployed.
Mr. Tavenner. During that entire period of time ?
Mr. Freyd. Practically, as I recollect.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you engaged in any work of any kind during
that period?
Mr. Freyd. Well, there was no work available that I could find.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean you were unemployed until 1941^
December 1941?
Mr. Freyd. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live in 1940 ?
Mr. Freyd. I lived in Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in any work without remuneration ?
Mr. Freyd. No.
494 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH,, AREA
Mr. Tavenner. During the period from 1935 to 1940 ?
Mr. Fretd. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you connected with the Civil Rights Con-
Mr. Freyd. I think I should invoke the fifth amendment wi taat
question as I feel that it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Moulder. To clarify the response, do you decline to answer by
invoking the fifth amendment of the Constitution, or do you refuse to
answer for fear it will tend to incriminate you ?
^Ir. Freyd. And also the first amendment, which guarantees free-
dom of speech and of the press and the right of people to assemble
peaceably.
Mr. Tavenner. The witness who preceded you a few moments ago,
Mr. Eugene V. Dennett, described his disagreement with the Com-
munist Party in connection with its policy toward the Civil Rights
Congress. He told the committee that the Communist Party had
organized the Civil Rights Congress, but that he disagreed with the
policy of forming an organization which would defend only Com-
munists. And, for that reason, he incurred the wrath of his superiorfl
in the Communist Party.
He further testified that he was told by the leadership of the Com-
munist Party that it didn't have time to protect the civil rights of
people generally, but it was only interested in the civil rights of mem-
bers of the Communist Party.
Now it is our information that you held an official position in the
Civil Rights Congress. I may be wrong about that. But surely you
were in a position to know whether or not Mr. Dennett was telling the
truth about the attitude of the Communist Party toward the Civil
Rights Congress or the work of the Civil Rights Congress,
Mr. Fretd. I should like to confer with my attorney.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Freyd. I invoke the first amendment and the fifth amendment
for the reasons previously stated. And I may add that I am pleased
to notice that there has been very widespread doubt expressed prom-
inently in the press about the veracity of a witness testifying before
this committee.
Mr. Tav^enner. If you have any doubt about that you are now in a
position to straighten the committee out on it. In what particular,
if any, was Mr. Dennett in error in his testimony ?
Mr. Freyd. I would like to confer with my counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Freyd. I claim, again, the first and fifth amendments of the
Constitution, and I wish to add that I am reluctant to answer any
questions which would require me to claim the protection of the first
and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Commimist Party?
Mr. Freyd. The answer is the same, for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Have vou ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Freyd. The answer is the same, and for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Velde ?
Mr. Velde. No questions.
COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 495
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Moulder. Call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Hatten. Mr. Chairman?
]Mr. Moulder. Yes.
Mr. PIatten. While I am here may I address the Chair with, rt^fer-
ence to the O'Connell matter again?
Mr. Moulder. Yes. •
STATEMENT OF C. T. HATTEN, ATTORNEY AT LAW,
SEATTLE, WASH.
Mr. Hatten. I notice that on a number of witnesses the subpena^s
have been continued, and I would like to formally move that the sub-
pena in case of Jerry O'Connell be contiinied to some later date at
which time his health might be better,
Mr. Moulder. The committee cannot entertain your motion.
Mr. Hatten, I merely would like to make it for the record.
Mr. Moulder. You have made the request on the record.
Mr. Hatten. To state the position, I understand that possibly
you cannot pass upon it.
Mr. Moulder. Call the next witness.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lenus Westman.
Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you
are about to give before this congressional committee will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God ?
Mr. Westman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF HANS LENUS ADOLPH WESTMAN, ACCOMPANIED
BY HIS COUNSEL, C. T. HATTEN
Mr. Westman. Mr. Chairman, under the tlrst and fifth amend-
ments
Mr. Tavenner. You haven't been asked any questions.
Mr. Westman. 0.,K.
Mr. Tavenner. We will give you a chance.
What is your name, please, sir?
Mr. Westman. Under the first and fifth amendments, as the result
of having been subpenaed, I wish to apply these two amendments as
reasons for not giving my name.
And also, in the light of the statement that was made here this after-
noon, that you would like to have some witness that didn't have to use
his name, that is, that you could have appearing before you.
Mr. Tavenner. You are mistaken.
Mr. Moulder. We will have order, please.
Mr. Velde. Do you refuse to answer as to what your name is ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I am going to confer with my attorney.
I wish to state that
Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Westman. I will answer the question under protest.
My name is Hans Lenus Adolph Westman.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name?
Mr. Westman. W-e-s-t-m-a-n.
496 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Hatten. C. T. Hatten, previously identified as an attorney in
Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mr. Westman ?
Mr. Westman. In Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation ?
• Mr. Westman. I would like to confer with counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, I will answer under compulsion, and I am
a sheetmetal worker.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any other occupation ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Do you mean at the present time?
Mr. Tavenner. During the last month, say, during the month of
March.
Mr. Westman. I would like to confer with my counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, sir, I would like — I will decline to answer that
question under the fifth amendment, as I do not know what is referred
to as work by the question, and, hence, it might be something that is
construed by you, sir, as constituting work that might be of a character
that would waive my rights under the fifth amendment. And, hence,
I will take the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I will be more specific.
Have you been engaged during the month of March in any publica-
tion work of any kind ? That will limit it within narrow bounds.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I will decline to answer that under the fifth amend-
ment. And I would like to go into the reasons why I take the fifth
amendment, because under
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the witness has stated his reason
as being the fifth amendment, which is a ground, under the circum-
stances here, I think he is entitled to use. And, therefore, it would
not require any speech to accompany it.
Mr. Moulder. Please make a direct answer to the question. We will
get along more quickly.
Mr. Westman. I said that under the fifth amendment I decline to
answer that question, and I would like to just point out, Mr. Chairman,
that I do take the fiftli amendment because of the fact that it is in the
Constitution to protect the innocent, and for the same reason that you
gentlemen of Congress have congressional immunity.
Mr. Moulder. You have made yourself clear about the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time, during the month of March
195.5, been the press director of the Communist Party?
Mr. Westman. I will decline to answer that under the first and
fifth amendments, as, under the first amendment, that is directly in-
quiring into the freedom of tlie press and into matters of like nature,
and, under the fifth amendment, I decline because such testimony
might be construed as testimony against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Barbara Ilartle testified before this committee
111 June of 19.54. In the course of her testimony in identifying various
individuals as members of the Communist Party, she stated :
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 497
Lenus Westman was a member of a club in the central region and lived in
that area. Most of his Communist Party activities were in mass work at that
time, like the Progressive Party or election work.
Tell the committee, please, what knowledge you have of the activi-
ties of the Communist Party, if any, within the Progressive Party.
Mr. Westman. Well, Mr. Chairman, I will decline to answer that
question under the fiftli amendment. *
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westivian. I think I have made my point clear on that.
Mr. Moulder. Maj^ I ask you a question ?
Where were you born and reared ?
Mr. Westman. I was born in Sweden, Umea, Sweden; and came
to this country at the age of 7.
INlr. Moulder. How old are you now ?
Mr. Westman. I am 52 years of age.
Mr. Moulder. Are you a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Westman. Yes, I am.
Mr. Moulder. How long have you been a citizen ?
Mv. Westman. Since 1936.
Mr. Moulder. Have you served in the armed services of the United
States?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Yes ; I have.
Mr. Moulder. "Wliat branch of the armed services?
Mr. Westman. In the infantry, Army.
Mr. Moulder. For what period of time ?
Mr. Westman. From July 1942, until February 1943.
Mr. Moulder. Did you receive an honorable discharge from the
service ?
Mr. Westman. Yes; I did.
Mr. Velde. I would like to ask one question.
How did you obtain citizenship in this country ?
Mr. Westman. Through naturalization.
Mr. Velde. Did you file your petition for naturalization on your
own?
Mr. Westman. It was by petition.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of your naturalization?
Mr. Westman. It was July 193G.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it July 27, 1936?
Mr. Westman. Yes; I think that was the exact date.
Mr, Tavenner. Where were you naturalized ?
Mr. Westman. Here in Seattle in the Federal court.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at
the time you were naturalized?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same rea-
sons that I have given.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
at any time between 1936 and the present date?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same reason
that I have given.
498 COJVUVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
Mr. Velde. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the-,
time you were naturalized ?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question also, and for ther
same reason.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, it appears to me there is some evidence
that should be referred to the United States Immigration and Natu-
ralization Service for future consideration, possibly with a view to
denaturalization and deportation.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you elected to the Senate of the State of
Washington in the election of 1940 ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Yes; I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve? That is, were you seated?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question, sir, under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. I want to go a little further. When did you file your
petition for naturalization?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, at the moment I don't recall exactly when I
filed the petition, but it is a matter of public record.
Mr. Velde. Would it have been approximately 5 years before the
date of your naturalization in 1936 ?
Mr. Westman. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Probably in 1931 ?
Mr. Westman. It would be approximately in that period.
Mr. Velde. How old were you at that time ?
Mr. Westman. I was 29, 1 believe, at that time.
Mr. Velde. Then during the 5 years following your filing of a pe-
tition for naturalization did you engage in any type of Communist
activity ?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the reasons
that I have given before.
Mr. Velde. Did you know what the Communist Party was at that
time?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same rea-
sons that I have given.
Mr. Velde. Where, and in what court did you receive your citi-
zenship?
Mr. Westman. It was at the Federal courthouse here, but I am not
sure at the present time which court it was.
Mr. Velde. At the time that you received your citizenship in the
court, United States district court, were you engaged in any Com-
munist Party activities ?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
that I have given before.
Mr. Moulder. Have you, to your own best knowledge and infor-
mation, ever committed any act, a subversive act or one of un-
American conduct against the United States of America ?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, sir, under the fifth amendment, I must decline
to answer that question, and I also know that this committee knows-
COMMUNIST ACTI^•1TIES IX THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA 499
that I have not been engaged in such activities. I am sure that this
committee knows that.
Mr. Velde. As a member of the committee, I certainly do not know
that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.
Mr. Moulder. It seems to me you now have an opportunity to tell
the committee that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I still decline to answer the question under the fifth
amendment because I do not consider this an opportunity.
Mr. Moulder. You say you served in the Armed Forces for a
period of how long ?
Mr. "VVestman. Approximately 6 or 7 months.
Mr. Moulder. And why were you discharged?
Mr. Westman. That was because I was over 40.
Mr. Moulder. What was the extent of your services in the Armed
Forces ? Were you in combat service ?
Mr. Westman. No.
Mr. Moulder. Are there any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Velde ?
Mr. Velde. No questions.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Frank Kerr.
Will you come forward ? Just have a seat, please.
(Mr. Frank Kerr came forward, accompanied by his counsel. Jay
G.Sykes.)
Mr. Ta\'enner. Mr. Chairman, this witness has been subpenaed,
and a doctor's certificate has been given which is w^holly inadequate as
a medical certificate to show that this gentleman was not in condition
to appear here.
Counsel was advised to get a doctor and give us a certificate that we
thought would mean something.
There may have been some confusion about who was to have the
examination made, but, regardless of that, it is quite apparent, from
observation, that the man is not well, and I don't feel satisfied in
interrogating him under these circumstances unless the witness himself
wants to be interrogated.
(Mr. Sykes conferred with Mr. Kerr.)
Mr. Sykes. He would rather not.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Under those circumstances I do not feel like insist-
ing on it.
Mr. M0U1.DER. Do you wish the subpena to be continued or remain in
full force and effect ?
Mr. Tavenxer. No, sir. Under the circumstances, I think Mr. Kerr
should be dismissed.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. There are no further witnesses, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. The hearing will remain in order.
As chairman of this subcommittee, and on behalf of the staff of
the committee, our able counsel, Mr. Tavenner, and our investigator,
Mr. Wheeler, and myself, we are all deeply grateful to the police de-
500 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SEATTLE, WASH., AREA
partment and the highly qualified police officers who have served this
committee so faithfully and efficiently.
We are also deeply grateful and want to express our appreciation to
all city, county, and Federal officials who have cooperated with us in
every possible way.
As a member of the Committee on Un-American Activities, I want
to say that I have attended many hearings in many sections of the
United States, and I have never had the pleasure of enjoying more
genuine, warm hospitality than has been extended to us during the
hearings which have been held here in Seattle, Wash.
I am deeply grateful for the opportunity and the honor of having
been associated with so many fine people as I have found here in
Seattle. They have cooperated with us during the hearings.
We also wish to express our deep appreciation for the efficient serv-
ice rendered by the sheriif's office, as well as all other public officials
who have cooperated with us during the hearings.
Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. I simply want to say this, Mr. Chairman : I appreciate
the courteous and fair maner in which you have conducted the hearings
here in Seattle.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the people in Seattle, and I concur
with you that we have been given more courteous treatment, or at
least as courteous treatment here in the city of Seattle and in the
Northwest area as we have been given in any other section of the
country. We really do appreciate it.
Mr. Moulder. Thank you very much, Mr. Velde.
The committee will be adjourned.
(Whereupon, Saturday, March 19, 1955, at 5 : 35 p. m., the committee
was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.)
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