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Full text of "Investigation of Communist propaganda in the United States. Hearing"

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GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN 
THE UNITED STATES— PART 5 

(NEW YORK CITY AREA) 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMEEICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



MARCH 12 AND 13, 1957 



I'rinted for the use ot the Committee on Un-American Activities 



(Index in Part 6 of this series) 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
90121 WASHINGTON : 1057 

HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY. 
DEPOSITED BY THE 

.■•■■-Fi-r-, oxATcc nnv/CDNMIFNT 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Repkesentatives 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana ROBERT J. McINTOSH, Michigan 

RiCHAKD AUE.NS, Director 
II 



CONTENTS 



PART 5 

Page 

Synopsis vii 

March 12, 1957: Testimony of — 

Francis B. Laughlin 253 

Irving Fishman 253 

Serge Buteneff 272 

Afternoon session: 

John Lantner 275 

March 13, 1957: Testimony of— 

John Gates 291 

Joseph Starobin 305 

Angus Cameron 320 

Rose Baron 329 

Margaret Cowl Krumbein 335 

Afternoon session: 

James S. Allen (Sol Auerbach) 343 

Jessica Smith (Abt) 347 

Joseph Felshin (Joseph Fields) 358 

Milton Howard (Milton Halpern) 361 

John Lautner (resumed) 364 

Ordway Southard 366 

PART 6 

March 14, 1957: Testimony of — 

Theodore Baver 369 

Zoltan Deak (Morton Grad) 373 

Catherine Gyarmaty 388 

Alex Rosner 397 

Afternoon session: 

Louis Battler 403 

Arpad Fodor Nagv 406 

Clara Reich _" 409 

Michael Savides 412 

Charles Solon 414 

Michael Savides (resumed) 415 

Charles Solon (resumed) 415 

Michael Savides (resumed) 415 

James Lee (Shew Hong) 417 

Frank Bonora 419 

James Lee (Shew Hong) (resumed) 420 

March 15, 1957: Testimony of — 

Michael Tkach 425 

Frank Ilchuk 435 

Anthony Bimba 438 

Rov Mizara 441 

David Z. Krinkin 448 

Samuel J. Nikolauk 452 

John Laut ner (resumed) 454 

Samuel J. Nikolauk (resumed) 454 

Afternoon session: 

Paul Novick 455 

Frank Bonora 458 

Paul Novick (resumed) 459 

Irving Freed 465 

Gerhard Hagelberg 467 

I ndex i 

in 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The lesfislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 001, 79th Congress [1946], cliapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assemhled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 



17. Committee on Un-Amerk-an Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make i'rom time to time investigations of (i) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee tbereof, is authorized to sit and act at such, 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require tlie attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of tbe laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee ; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent re- 
ports and data submitted to the Congress by tbe agencies in the executive 
branch of the Government. 

V 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 85TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1957 

****** ^ 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commeucement of each Congress, 

(q) Committee on Un-Americau Activities, to consist of nine Members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
*****«♦ 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(bj The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (8) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to 
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such 
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the 
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

******* 

26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness of 
the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee, and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by 
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 

VI 



SYNOPSIS 

(Investigation of Communist PropxVganda in the United States, 

Parts 5 and 6) 

(new york city area) 

On ]M;irch 12, 13, 14, and 15 the committee began the first of a series 
of hearings in New York City relating to the Communist-controlled 
foreign language press and Conmiunist publishing houses in the 
United States. 

Appearing before the conunittee were 28 witnesses from foreign- 
language publications, Communist periodicals, publishing firms, and 
bookstores. They were: Zoltan Deak, editor of Hungarian Word; 
Catherine Gyarmaty, editor of Nok Vilaga, a Hungarian monthly pe- 
riodical ; Alex Rosner, business manager of Hungarian Word ; Louis 
Dattler, sex3retary of Hungarian Word ; Arpad Fodor Nagy, treasurer 
of Hungarian Word ; Clara Reich, secretary of Nok Vilaga ; Michael 
Savides, business manager of Greek- American Tribune; James Lee, 
editor of China Daily News, a Chmese-language daily; Michael 
Tkach, editor of Ukrainian Daily News; Frank Ilchuk, secretary- 
treasurer of Ukrainian Daily News ; Anthony Bimba, editor of Sviesa, 
a Lithuanian quarterly; Roy Mizara, editor of Laisne, a Lithuanian- 
language weekly ; David Krinkin, editor of Russky Golos, a Russian- 
language daily; Theodore Bayer, former president of Russky Golos 
Publishing Corp., publisher of Russky Golos ; Samuel Nikolauk, sec- 
retary of the Russky Golos Publishing Corp. ; Paul Novick, editor of 
the Morning Freiheit, a Yiddisli daily ; Irving Freed, managing edi- 
tor of the Morning Freiheit; Gerhard Hagelberg, editor of the Ger- 
man-American. 

John Gates, editor of the Daily Worker. Angus Cameron, of 
the publishing firm of Cameron & Kahn and president of the Liberty 
Book Club; Rose Baron, owner and manager of the Workers Book 
Shop, the "official" Communist Party bookstore in New York ; Mar- 
garet Cowl Krumbein, presently associated with Imported Publi- 
cations & Products, Inc., a registered agent for many Communist 
publishing firms in the Soviet Union ; Sol Auerbach (James S. Allen) , 
an official of International Publishers; Joseph Felshin, an official of 
New Century Publishers and associated with the publication, Po- 
litical Affairs; Jessica Smith (Abt), presently associated with New 
World Review; and Milton Howard, an official of Mainstream. 

A cooperative witness, John Lautner, a former member of the 
Nationality Groups Commission of the Communist Party, named 18 
of these as persons whom he had known as Communists. These 18 
were: Zoltan Deak, Catherine Gyarmaty, Alex Rosner, Louis Dattler, 
Arpad Fodor Nagy, Clara Reich, INIichael Tkach, Theodore Bayer, 
Samuel Nikolauk, Paul Novick, Irving Freed, John Gates, Rose Baron, 
Margaret Cowl Krumbein, Sol Auerbach, Joseph Felshin, Jessica 
Smith (Abt), and Milton Howard. Mr. Lautner also identified as 
Communists two persons not summoned before the committee : INIar- 
garet Adler, business manager of the German-American, and Boris 
Cohen, head of Prompt Press. 

vn 



VIII SYNOPSIS 

All of the witnesses invoked the fifth amendment to avoid answer- 
ing qnestions relating to Coimnunist Party affiliation and the activi- 
ties of the newspapers and publishing concerns for which they work. 

Beyond this, 13 of them involved the fifth amendment on whether or 
not tiiey were members of the Communist Party on the date of their 
naturalization: Michael Savides, Michael Tkach, Anthony Bimba, 
Eoy JMizara, David Krinkin, Theodore Bayer, Zoltan Deak, Catherine 
Gyarmaty, Louis Dattler, Clara Reich, Samuel Nikolauk, Paul No- 
vick, Gerhard Hagelberg. 

Michael Tkach, editor of the Ukrainian Daily News and Gerhard 
Hagelberg, editor of the German- American Tribune, refused to answer 
questions respecting Soviet espionage. Mr. Tkach had been identified 
by Elizabeth T. Bentley in sworn testimony as an im])ortant member 
of the Soviet espionage ring operating in the United States. 

Mr. Hagelberg, also known as Charles Wisley, writer for New 
Masses, and Jerry Kramer, a member of the Communist Party in 
Brooklyn, invoked the fifth amendment when asked. "What contacts 
have you had in the course of last year with persons who are repre- 
sentatives in the United States of foreign governments?"' 

Mr. Lautner, the principal committee witness, testified that the Com- 
munist press exerts a "terrific impact" on foreign-language groups in 
the United States, particularly on the large industrial areas. Lautner 
said 10 of the editors and officers of publications held important posts 
in Communist Party nationality groups or bureaus in the United 
States. 

]Mr. Lautner stated that the now defunct International "Workers 
Order was a primary source of financial assistance to the Communist 
press both the English and foreign-language segments. Significantly 
enough, testimony of the witnesses heard demonstrated a real connec- 
tion between the IWO and the papers involved. In many cases the 
editor of a Communist-controlled foreign-language newspaper was 
also an officer of tlie same language group or club in the IWO. Mr. 
Lautner concluded his testimony bv exposing the fraudulent "new 
look" of the Communist Party in the United States which the 16th 
national convention of the Communist Party tried to perpetrate by 
disavowing any conspiratorial connection with Moscow. According 
to Mr. Lautner evidence of this fraud is best demonstrated by the fact 
that the Communist Party in the United States in convention refused 
to repudiate Leninism and failed utterly to denounce Soviet barbarism 
in Hungary. 

Exhibits introduced at the hearings confirmed that this segment 
of the foreign-language press in this country constitutes nothing more 
than propaganda outlet for Moscow. All the exhibits were taken from 
the editorial pages of these newspapers and officially translated by the 
Foreign Language Division of the Library of Congress. In all in- 
stances witnesses refused to identify their own writings or invoked 
the fifth amendment on questions relating to the editorials. 

In addition to the witnesses listed above, the committee also ques- 
tioned Joseph Starobin, formerly the foreign editor for the Daily 
Worker. Starobin admitted his own party membership and connec- 
tions with various propaganda outlets for the Conmiunist Party but 
refused to cooperate with the committee in disclosing the identity of 
others associated with him in the Communist Party. 



SYNOPSIS IX 

The committee also heard fm'ther testimony about Communist 
propaganda entering the United States from abroad. 

Irving Fishman, Deputy Director of Customs in Xew York, testi- 
fied that 6,947,000 pieces of Communist propaganda had been imported 
into the United States last year as bulk mail. This does not include 
items in first-class mail and diplomatic pouches. 

Most of the material was unsolicited, Mr. Fishman declared. Most 
of the recent material, Mr. Fislnnan noted, has dealt with the Hun- 
garian situation and the forthcoming World Student Festival in 
Moscow this summer. 

The foreign sender pays postage for sending this material, but the 
rest of tlie cost of delivery is borne by the United States. He recom- 
mended legislation to require a label, branding it as political propa- 
ganda, to be attached to such material at the time of marking. The 
label is now required only when an agent here distributes the propa- 
ganda, and this, he said, is inadequate. 

Serge Buteneff, assistant to Mr. Fishman, estimated that 90 percent 
of the material examined by customs is printed in foreign languages. 
Mr. Fishman stated that almost all of it originates in the Soviet Union 
or in the Soviet satellites. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN 

THE UNITED STATES— PART 5 

(New York City Area) 



TUESDAY, MARCH 12, 1957 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

New York, N. Y. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, in room 518, United States Courthouse, Foley Square, 
Nevt^ York, X. Y., at 10: 30 a. m., Hon. Morgan M. Moulder (chair- 
man of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder, 
of Missouri, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Staff members present : Richard Arens, director, W. Jackson Jones 
and Frank Bonora, investigators. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

The purpose of these hearings of the Committee on Un-American 
Activities in New York is to inquire further into the moimting 
campaign of Communist propaganda which, at the moment, poses 
one of the graver threats to the security of the United States. 

There are many aspects of this campaign. The coimnittee has al- 
ready'' received extensive evidence concerning the Communist propa- 
ganda imj^orted into the United States from Iron Curtain countries. 
From the hearings which we have held on this subject, in Washington, 
Philadelphia, New Orleans, and San Francisco, the committee has 
ascertained an urgent need for the strengthening of existing laws, 
designed to combat this type of subversive material. 

The investigations of the committee indicate that Communist propa- 
ganda originating in the United States has two main sources : Com- 
munist-dominated foreign-language newspapers which circulate 
among minority, nationality groups, and Communist-controlled pub- 
lishing houses and writers whose works are published in both foreign 
languages and in English and whose products can be found in even 
the most conservative bookshops. 

There are, of course, constitutional guaranties of free speech and 
free press, but there are no constitutional guaranties protecting the 
dissemination of fraudulent and deceitful propaganda. Indeed, there 
are laws already enacted against it. It is apparent that these laws 
are being violated and circumvented in a variety of ways. 

There is no desire on the part of this committee or the Congress 
of the United States to seek censorship of newspapers, magazines 

251 



252 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

or books. This committee recognizes completely tlie right of fi'ee 
political action and fi'ee political expression. At the same time, the 
people of the United States have an equally compelling right to 
know the identity of those wlio are abusing these inherent freedoms 
of speech and press in order to destroy them. The issue is not one of 
suppression but of illumination. We are concerned not with legiti- 
mate political protest, but with the clandestine activity of the Com- 
munist conspiratorial apparatus. 

At tliis point, I wish to incorporate in the record the authorization 
of the full House Committee on Un-American Activities for this 
project, and the order by the chairman of the Committee on Un- 
American Activities appointing this subcommittee. 

There being a quorum present, the subcommittee will proceed with 
this hearing. 

(The document referred to follows:) 

Authorization of Fuix Committee on Un-American Activities in a Meeting 
Held on January 22, 19.57 

A motion was made by Mr. Kearney, seconded by Mr. Willis, and unanimously 
carried, approving and authorizing the holding of hearings in New York City, 
beginning March 12, 19.">7, and tlie conduct of investigations deemed reasonably 
necessary by the staff in preparation therefor, the subject of which hearings and 
the investigations in connection therewitli to include, in general, all matters 
within the jurisdiction of the committee, and in particular Communist propa- 
ganda of both foreign and domestic origin, disseminated through Communist 
publications and otherwise. 

ORDER 

"To THE Clerk of the Committee on Un-American Activities of the Housk 
OF Representatives : 

"order for appointment of subcommittee 

"Pursuant to the provisions of law and the rules of this committee, I hereby 
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of 
Representatives, consisting of Hon. Morgan M. Moulder, chairman, Hon. James 
B. Frazier, Jr., and Hon. Gordon H. Scherer, associate members, to hold hearings 
in New York City, beginning on March 12, 1957, on all matters within the juris- 
diction of the committee, and to take testimony on said day or any succeeding 
days, and at such times and places as it may deem neces.sary, until its work is 
completed. 

"The clerk of the committee is directed to immediately notify the appointees 
of their appointment and to file this order as an official committee record in the 
order book kept for that purpose. 

"Given under my hand this 7th day of March 1957. 

"Francis E. Walter, 
''Chairman, Committee on Un-American Aetivitif-<i. 

"House of Representatives.'" 

Mr. Moulder. I would like to remind the spectators present that 
they are here by permission of the committee. A disturbance of any 
kind during the testimony, whether favorable or unfavorable to any 
witness, will not be tolerated. Anyone who violates this rule will be 
ejected from the hearing room. 

In addition, please observe the rule of the Federal court prohibiting 
smoking in this room. 

Every witness appearing before our committee is entitled to have 
counsel accompany him. I want to make it clear, however, that coun- 
seFs sole function is to advise his client as to his rights and privileges. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IN THE UNITED STATES 253 

Do you have any statement ? 

Mr. SCHERER. No. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you call your witness, Mr. Arens? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Francis B. Laughlin, kindly come forward and re- 
main standing while the chairman administers the oath. 

Mr. ^louLDER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God '. 

Mr. Laughlin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FEANCIS B. LAUGHLIN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Laughlin. My name is Francis B. Laughlin. I am assistant 
collector of customs of the port of Xew York. 1 live in Mamaroneck, 
Westchester County in New York. 

Mr. Arejss. How long have you occupied 3'our present post? 

Mr. Laltghlin. Since 1945. 

Mr. Arens. What are your duties and responsibilities ? 

Mr. Laughlin. I am in charge of the general overall administration 
of the customs laws at the port of New York. 

Mr. Arens, Can you please tell us the jurisdiction of the customs 
office in New York from the standpoint of reception of foreign political 
propaganda ? 

Mr. Laughlin. We have a dual responsibility, first, under section 
305 of the tariif act, which deals with obscenity, advocating the over- 
throw by force of the Goverinnent, armed insurrection, and so forth. 
Tlie second is under the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938. 

Mr. Arens. And what is your duty under the Foreign Agents Regis- 
tration Act? 

Mr. Laughlin. Lender that act it is our duty to enforce the require- 
ment that all political propaganda must be identified as such. It must 
be marked as such. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a special unit vrithin the United States 
Customs Service in'New York for the pur})0se of detecting Communist 
propaganda, segregating it, and enforcing the applicable statutes with 
respect to it ? 

Mr. Laughlin. Yes; we have such a unit that is under Deputy Col- 
lector Irving Fishman, who handles all restricted and prohibited 
merchandise. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest Mr. Fishmaji be 
administered the oath. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solennily swear the testimony you are aboul 
to give shall be the trutli, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God \ 

Mr. Fishman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF IRVING FISHMAN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Fishman. My name is Irving Fishman, deputy collector of 
customs at the i^ort of New York. I live in Jericho, Long Island. 



254 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA EST THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Arens. How long have you occupied your present post, Mr. 
Fisliman ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. I have been in the customs service for over 29 years. 
I have had. this specific assigmnent for the past 15 or 16 years. 

Mr. Arens. What is the assignment which you presently have? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. The Treasury Department is concerned with the 
control of the importation of political propaganda, and I have been 
assigned on a countrywide basis to take whatever steps are available 
under the law to control this volume of political propaganda that is 
imported. 

Mr. Arens. How many ports of entry are there in the continental 
United States through which or into wliich foreign political prop- 
aganda enters ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. There are over 45 customs ports of entry. Merchan- 
dise can be entered at any one of those ports of entry, plus, of course, 
the subports in each area. 

Mr. Arens. How many check points or control units are established 
by the United States Customs Service for its function in reference to 
Communist propaganda ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Currently there are three. 

Mr. Arens. Where are they located ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. One is in this city. New York City ; another one in 
San Francisco, and another one at the port of Chicago. The en- 
forcement of the provisions of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, 
with which we are concerned here today, is a joint responsibility of 
both the Post Office, Treasury, and Justice Departments. The Post 
Office Department has cooperated with us to the extent of directing 
mail from the Soviet bloc countries to the three check points so that to 
some degree we see most of this material at the three control points. 

Mr. Arens. Now, kindly give us, if you please, Mr. Fishman, a brief 
layman's thumbnail sketch of the applicable provisions of the law. 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Mr. Laughlin has referred to them briefly. Under 
section 305 of the tariff act, we are, of course, concerned with the 
importation of any material which is subversive, which advocates the 
overthrow of the United States Government, and so on. Under the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act, which is the type of legislation 
intended to identify agents of foreign governments as such 

Mr. Moulder. May I intervene and ask you, you say propaganda 
which advocates or recommends revolution and the overthrow of the 
United States Government by force and violence. How do you 
ascertain that? Does it have to be a direct recommendation or can 
it be indirectly proposed ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. The provision of the law referred to in my opinion 
would almost require that it be a direct suggestion. The provisions 
of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, however, are much more 
inclusive, and the law there refers to political propaganda as such, 
and also contains a definition of what constitutes political prop- 
aganda which we use as a basis for making our determinations. 

Mr. Arens. Perhaps, Mr. Fishman, it would clarify this record if 
I were to ask you a, few questions from the layman's standpoint. 

If foreign political propaganda is beamed at the United States, 
and if that foreign political propaganda advocates overtly the over- 
throw of the Government of the United Sta,tes by force and violence, 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 255 

that foreign political propaganda is subject to confiscation, is it not, 
because it is in violation of certain criminal statutes? Is that right? 

Mr. FisHMAX. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. If the foreign political propaganda does not openly 
advocate the overthrow of the Government of the United States by- 
force and violence, but is for dissemmation in the United States by a 
registered agent of a foreign principal, then that foreign political 
propaganda comes within the purview of the Foreign Agents Regis- 
tration Act, is that correct ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct. I did not want to confuse the two 
provisions of law. One is very specific and is contained right in the 
Tariff Act of 1930. The second, and the one we are concerned with 
mainly are the respective provisions of the Foreign Agents Registra- 
tion Act. We come into the picture — and I would like to make this 
one point — because of a ruling of the Attorney General which dealt 
specifically with persons outside of the United States. This rule has 
been recently amended b}^ the present Attorney General and has be- 
come rule 6 of the general regulations annexed to the Foreign Agents 
Registration Act. It specifies that any person not within the United 
States who uses the United States mails or any means or instru- 
mentality of interstate or foreign commerce within the United States 
to circulate or disseminate political propaganda, to addressees who 
have not ordered, subscribed to, or otherwise solicited such material 
shall be regarded as acting within the United States and subject to 
the rules of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. 

It is with regard to that type of material that we take our action. 
Most of this material that we are concerned with is sent unsolicited, 
unlabeled to recipients in the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Now may I ask a few other elemental questions so this 
record will be clear, Mr. Fishman. 

The laws provide no ceiling or numerical limit on the amount of 
Communist propaganda that can be brought into the United States, 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Fishman. No ceiling, no rules. 

Mr. Arens. The laws provide no censorship on Communist propa- 
ganda being sent into the United States, is that correct? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. Yes. This is a disclosure type statute. 

Mr. Arens. If the recipient in the United States is in diplomatic 
status, there is no requirement under the Foreign xVgents Registration 
Act for any labeling ; is that correct ? 

Mr. FisTiMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. If the recipient is a registered agent of a foreign prin- 
cipal, and he in turn is going to disseminate ui the United States 
Communst political propaganda, he can receive all he wants, can 
he not, from abroad ? 

Mr. Fishman. He can. 

Mr. Arens. And he only is required to label that propaganda when 
he disseminates it in the United States, is that correct ? 

Mr. Fishman. That is correct. That is the current interpretation 
of the law. 

Mr. Arens. The theory of the law, Mr. Fishman, is, is it not, that 
the reader in the United States, the recipient of foreign political 
propaganda, is entitled to have all he wants of it just so he knows 



256 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

and has before his eyes a habel that the material he is receiving 
emanates from a Communist country and is Communist propaganda, 
is that correct? 

Mr, FiSHMAN. Yes, with two limitations. 

Mr. Arens. It is the same theory as under the food and drug law, 
that the man who reaches for medicine is entitled to know from the 
label Avliat he is taking ; is that correct ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct. 

]Mr. Arens. Is there any limitation on the amount of Communist 
propaganda, or any labeling requirements for an individual recipient 
who requests the Communist propaganda? 

]\Ir. FiSHMAN. Tliere are two requirements actually. One, that he 
be aware of its source, or in fact that he has solicited or requested or 
subscribed for it, and second, that he does not disseminate it subse- 
quent to his having received it. 

Mr. Arens. But if he wants it for his own purposes, he can receive 
it without labeling and without numerical limitation, isn't that 
correct ? 

Mr, FiSHMAN. Numerical limitation, there would be some restric- 
tion. For example, you might question an individual who brought 
50 copies of a newspaper in for his own personal use. 

Mr. Arens, I meant from the standpoint of his own personal use. 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. Conceivably a man could require more 
than one copy. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been in the customs service? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. 29 years. 

Mr, Arens. Have you ever in the course of the history of your ex- 
perience seen a single item of foreign Communist propaganda com- 
ing to the United States which was labeled Communist propaganda, 
pursuant to the provisions of the Foreign Agents Registration Act? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. Never in commerce or in any of the importations 
we have examined, and we have examined quite a number of them. 

Mr. Arens. Now, tell us, if you please, something of the volume of 
the Connnunist propaganda which is hitting our shores from abroad. 
First of all, is it increasing or decreasing? 

Mr, FiSHMAN. It has been on the increase steadily, fluctuating, of 
course, on the issues before the American public and also depend- 
ing on the increase in the printing facilities in the satellite countries. 
Important issues before us in the United States frequently bring out a 
heavy influx of this printed material, and it has been for the past 
several years on the increase. 

Mv. Arens. What are the statistics in general on the volume of 
foreign Communist propaganda hitting our shores over the course ol 
any given period of time ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. We have completed our statistical report for 1956. 
We know that the Post Office Department here has turned over to 
us in New York for examination as suspected of containing political 
propaganda, 2,546,000 packages of mail during the year 1956. 

Mr. Arens. How many individual items would there be in a 
package ? 

]Mr. FiSHMAN. Our estinuite is that these packages contain approxi- 
mately -) copies each. Of course, there are many packages which con- 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 257 

tain only one copy, and there are some packages which contain 50. In 
order to maintain these statistics we have reported that there were 
4,429,000 individual printed books, pamphlets, periodicals, and so on, 
in the 2,546,000 packages. That was at the port of New York alone. 

Mr. Arexs. What are the statistics nationwide? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. We have to add for San Francisco for 1956 some 
656,000 packages containing over 2 million individually printed items. 
Chicago, 259,000 packages containing some 373,000 items, maldng a 
total for 1950 of 3,460,000 packages of mail containing some 6,947,000 
individually printed items. 

Mr. Arens. These 7 million items of foreign Communist propa- 
ganda are only those items of foreign Communist propaganda which 
are identifiable because of their mail status, isn't that correct? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You do not inspect and have access to first-class mail, 
do you? 

Mr. FisHMAx. Xo, we do not. We do not examine first-class mail. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us now, if you please, sir, the language in which 
these items appear. 

Mr. FisHMAN. The usual type of publication comes into the United 
States in some 13 languages. New Times, for example, we did not 
get a complete collection of, but the flysheet shows this is a weekly 
journal appearing in Russian, English, French, German, Spanish, 
Polish, Czechoslovakian, Rumanian, Hungarian, and Swedish. 

Mr. Scherer. How many languages is that? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That would be 10 in the New Times. Some of these 
other publications claim that they come out in 11 and 13 languages, and 
so on. 

Mr. Arens. Are they beamed principally to the foreign language 
nationality groups in the United States? 

Mr. FisHMAN. The one I was looking at is in English. The others 
printed in these foreign languages are beamed to the people who have 
their national heritage in the country of the language. 

Mr. Arens. I want to be sure this record reflects the volume. Do 
I interpret correctly what you have said that during the course of 
1956 there were approximately 7 million items of Communist propa- 
ganda from abroad that were processed as such through the customs? 
Is that correct ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. And none of those was labeled under the Foreign 
Agents Registration Act? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. We have never seen any labeled at all. Actuall}', 
as has been pointed out here, the requirement for labeling does not 
attach until after the registered agent here disseminates it. That 
presupposes that the agent decides what is political propaganda and 
labels it accordingly. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, under the Attorney General's opinion 
of December 1940, if a person representing, say, the Soviet Union in 
Soviet Russia beams into the United States foreign Communist politi- 
cal propaganda which he has not labeled, and if he is not registered, 
that material would be subject to confiscation, would it not? 

Mr. Fishman. That is right. 

90121— 57— pt. 5 2 



258 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Arens. In addition to these 7 million items which you have 
identified, you have an indeterminate amount which comes in first 
class ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. You have no idea of ascertaining that ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. We could only make an estimate. The reason we 
can make some estimate is because of a problem we had some months 
ago with the "return to the homeland" program. We had occasion 
in connection with that situation to look at some of the first-class mail, 
and we did it by a method available to us under the law. The law 
provides that if we find in the first-class mail any material which may 
be dutiable or which may be of a prohibited nature, that we may 
communicate with the addressees and ask permission to open the parcel 
or first-class piece of mail. In that situation we did open some first- 
class mail, mostly at the request of the addressees who did not want 
to receive it, and we found quite a sizeable quantity of propa- 
ganda in the first-class mail. We could not estimate any amount 
because the volume of first-class mail far surpasses the volume of ordi- 
nary mail and airmail that we have referred to here. 

Mr. Arexs. In addition to your 7 million items and the indeter- 
minate amount that comes in first-class mail, do you also have another 
volume of Communist political propaganda which you cannot appraise 
from the standpohit of volume, namely that which comes to the con- 
sulates and embassies and diplomatic personnel in the United States? 

]Mr. FisiiMAX. The assistant collector has just made a little note to 
remind me of that. There is the diplomatic mail to which we have 
no access. 

]\Ir. Arens. Do you have any idea what the volume of diplomatic 
mail is? 

Mr. FiSHiiAN. We could not estimate that. 

Mr. Arens. Under the applicable interpretation of the existing law, 
persons in diplomatic status are immune from registration, are they 
not, and from labeling? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. That is right. 

]Mr. Arens. In other words, the Ambassador from Soviet Russia 
in Washington, D. C, so far as the existing law is concerned, could 
receive an unlimited quantity of Communist propaganda and dis- 
seminate it in the United States without registering, without requir- 
ing it to be labeled, is that correct ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. The exemptions contained in the act provide that 
the requirements hereof shall not apply to the following agents or 
foreign principals: (a) A duly accredited diplomatic or consular offi- 
cer of a foreign government who is recognized by the Department of 
State while said officer is engaged exclusively in activities recognized 
by the Department of State as being within the scope of the functions 
of such officer. 

Mr. Arens. The State Department has ruled, has it not, that it is a 
proper diplomatic function for the Iron Curtain diplomats in the 
United States to disseminate Communist propaganda in this country ? 
Isn't that right? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. I believe so. 

Mr. Moulder. Repeat that, please. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 259 

Mr. Arens. The State Department has interpreted the provision 
of law which you have just read as prohibiting a requirement of regis- 
tration and labeling against diplomats in the United States, irrespec- 
tive of the amount or nature of the Connnunist propaganda which 
they disseminate, isn't tliat correct ? 

Mr. FisiiMAx. That is correct. I would perhaps phrase it a little 
dili'erently in saying that the State Department does not require these 
people to register. 

Mr. Arens. They do not require them to register because they con- 
strue this language in the Foreign Agents Registration Act as giving 
the diplomatic personnel an exemption from labeling Communist 
propaganda which they disseminate, isn't that correct? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Tliey would therefore have to conclude that it is a 
proper function of a diplomat within the United States to disseminate 
Connnunist propaganda, isn't that correct? 

Mr. FisHMAN. I would draw that conclusion. 

Mr. Arens. That is the only conclusion that could be drawn from 
that language, isn't that correct? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. The Justice Department has repeatedly taken issue 
with the State Department on that score, have they not? 

Mr. FisHMAN. I understand a year or so ago that was one of the 
issues raised. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, the Justice Department has repeatedly 
taken the position that it is not a proper function of a diplomat in the 
United States to disseminate political propaganda Avithout labeling 
that Communist propaganda as such, isn't that correct? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is riglit. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you, still on the item of volume, 
does the Foreign Agents Registration Act have any applicability to 
Communist propaganda originating in the United States domestically ? 

Mr, FisHMAN. There are no requirements in the Foreign Agents 
Registration Act which apply to that type of propaganda. 

Mr. xA^RENS. Does the Foreign Agents Registration Act have appli- 
cability to Communist propaganda which goes in transit across the 
United States from one country to the other ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Only to the degree that a request is made by the 
receiving country of this Government to withhold it from tlie United 
States mails. 

Mr. Arens. The applicable international conventions provide, do 
they not, that if the recipient government tells the Government of the 
United States that it does not want to receive Communist political 
propaganda which goes in transit through our Nation, that our Nation 
can confiscate the Connnunist propaganda ? Isn't that correct ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. I would like to read the provision : 

The Postmaster General may declare to be nonmailable any communication or 
expression falling within clause 2 of section 1 (j) hereof, in the form of prints 
or in any form reasonably adapted to or reasonably appearing to be intended for 
dissemination or circulation among two or more persons which is olfered or 
caused to be offered for transmittal in the United States mail to any person or 
persons in any other American repulilic by an agent of a foreign principal if the 
Postmaster General is informed in writing by the Secretary of State that the 
duly accredited diplomatic representative of such American republic has made 



260 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

written representations to the Department of State that the admission or cir- 
culation of such communication or expression in such American republic is pro- 
hibited by the laws tliereof and has requested in writing that its transmittal 
thereof be stopped. 

Mr. Arens. What is the vohtme of Communist political propaganda 
that is going in transit between one Iron Curtain country and some 
recipient country which they want to influence — going in transit across 
the United States ? 

Mr. FiSHMAK. "We had occasion recently to make some observations 
in New Orleans, La., and there were some 300,000 bags of mail a year 
carried in transit through that port. 

Mr, Arens. Has there been in the history of yoiir experience a single 
incident in which the United States Government through the State 
Department has alerted some other country that "You are receiving 
tons of Communist pro])aganda going through our country ; would you 
please request us through diplomatic channels to confiscate it?" 

Mr. FisiiMAX. I know of no such request. 

Mr. Arens. But the law and international conventions contemplate 
just such action, do they not? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. There is one difficulty, not actually a 
difficulty, but an observation in connection Avith that matter, and that is 
that there is a Universal Postal Convention, and actualiy the difficulty 
arises from a definition of what is open and closed mail. There is 
some question as to whether most of this mail in transit through the 
United States is in tlie closed-mail status as compared to the open- 
mail status. I know of no I'epresentation that has been made to any 
of the South American Republics in connection with this matter. 

Mr. Arens. The fact is, is it not, Mr. Fishman, that there are tons 
of Communist propaganda every month going from Mexico in transit 
through the United States down to the South American Republics? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And it is a fact, is it not, that the present law, if the 
State Department would alert countries of South America, provides a 
means by which the Communist propaganda can be stopped ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. But to your knowledge, has tlie State Department or 
has any official of the Government of the United States in State De- 
partment status moved one inch to try to stop it ? 

Mr. Fishman. No. The committee has made the suggestion. 

Mr. Arens. What committee? 

Mr. Fishman. This House Un-American Activities Committee has 
made the suggestion, and some reports with regard to the transmittal 
mail have been prepared for consideration by the administrative agen- 
cies. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent is this Communist propaganda cx)n- 
cerning which we have been discussing this morning actually carried 
at the expense of the United States taxpayers? 

Mr. Fishman. You are referring to the transit mail ? 

Mr. Arens, First of all, let us take the transit mail. To what 
extent are the taxpayers of this country paying for the shipment of 
Communist political propaganda across this country to service the 
objectives of the international Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Fishman. I am not in a position to give specifics on that. The 
Post Office Department has given some information to the effect that 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 261 

tlie sending country does pay part of the cost of the transportation of 
this mail through the United States. Of course, there is not any 
question at all that the United States Post Office Department bears a 
portion or a percentage of this cost. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, the United States taxpayers do pay 
at least a portion of the transportation cost for the Communist propa- 
ganda which the law provides can be stopped if someone would get 
an action, is that correct ? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, who are the recipients of this Communist 
foreign political propaganda which is hitting our shores ? 

Mr. F1SI131AN. Of course, there is a small portion of this material 
which is sent pursuant to subscription and request by people engaged 
in research, by tlie press. 

Mr. Arens. Tliat is completely beyond the purview of the Foreign 
Agents Registration Act, is it not? 

Mr. FiSTiMAN. That is right. In addition, there is the volume of 
this material which goes to the registered agents. Apart from that a 
good deal of it is sent to areas where the populace is of foreign origin. 
That would cover the general run-of-the-mill type of publication, 
like New Times, News, and Soviet Union, and so on, which comes in 
every week and every month and every day. 

In addition to that, of course, we find that wherever a domestic 
issue arises in the United States, specific material is prepared con- 
cerning that issue, and it is sent generally to the area in the United 
States where the issue is most important. The method of addressing 
the material used gives the impression that the senders either obtain 
copies of our classified telephone directories in the United States or 
that they have access to membership lists of many foreign organiza- 
tions. For example, we have observed in Chicago that a good deal oi 
material was sent to and blanketed those people who are members of 
the American Polish Congress. There were some 25,000 members, I 
think, or more, and a particular publication dealing with an issue 
which had some connotations to the country of Poland was sent to 
every one of those people. 

Mr. Arens. Do the schools, colleges, institutions of that character 
in tlie United States, receive this material ? 

Mr. Fishman. A good portion of this material, some of which we 
have here as exhibits, is beamed at the students in the United States. 
They specifically concern student activities. Those are sent to every 
college in the United States and to every student organization con- 
nected with a college. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, could you tell us a word about the country 
of origin ? It is a fact, is it not, that much of this Communist propa- 
ganda from abroad is devised in non-Communist countries so as to 
disguise the fact that it is actually Communist propaganda? 

Mr. Fishman. Our experience has been that a good deal of this 
material is transshipped from one country to another and reaches the 
United States from areas that are not in the Soviet bloc. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, the recipient would see a publication 
which would appear to have been published, say, in London or in 
Paris, rather than behind the Iron Curtain, is that correct? 

Mr. Fishman. That is right. 



262 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. I believe the hearings in New Orleans revealed — 
when you referred to student organizations — that much of this propa- 
ganda was personally addressed to members of student organizations. 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. It is surprising the ease with which 
the senders of this material obtain the names of people. They just 
blanket a complete area, writing to each one separately. 

Mr. Akens. I should like to ask you something about the cost of 
these publications. Does the individual recipient pay a cost or pay a 
price commensurate with the value of the commodity, the magazine? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. It would not appear so. As a matter of fact, most of 
this is sent unsolicited or without any fee at all. But even those that 
you can subscribe to sell for prices which obviously are way out of 
proportion to cost, especially since most of these publications contain 
no advertising at all. "Rumania Today," "Poland," and U. S. S. R." 
are comparable to Life magazine, which sells in the United States for 
25 cents or 20 cents, but has loads of advertising to subsidize the cost. 

Mr. Arens. Did I ask you what percentage of these publications 
are in foreign languages ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. We would estimate that about 60 percent of the 
publications are in foreign language. 

Mr. Moulder. When you say comparable to Life magazine, you 
mean insofar as the cost is concerned ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. The format appearance, paper and so forth. 

Mr. Moulder. The cost of production. 

Mr. FiSHMAN. The cost of production would in my opinion approxi- 
mate that of Life magazine. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information, Mr. Fishman, in addition 
to this Communist-printed propaganda, of the importation into the 
United States of plates from Soviet bloc countries which are suitable 
for reproduction of Communist propaganda in the United States ? 

Mr. Fishman. We have had some experience with the importation 
of the actual plates from which can be reproduced some of this same 
material that we find in the magazines and newspapers. 

Mr. Arens. How about films ? 

Mr. Fishman. There are regular importations of motion-picture 
films consigned to registered agents here in New York. 

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us, if you please, something about the 
content of these various publications, the gi'oups to which the publica- 
tion is beamed and the line of the publication ? 

Mr. SciiERER. May I interrupt just a minute? You referred to the 
magazine entitled, "Soviet Union". It has no advertising, has it, 
Mr. Fisliman? 

Mr. Fishman. None at all, except advertising in connection with 
the sale of the magazine. 

Mr. Scherer. No commercial advertising such as we find in Life 
magazine or Look? 

Mr. Fishman. No, none of these have any advertising at all. 

Mr. Scherer. The Soviet Union comes in how many different for- 
eign languages? 

]Vii-. Fishman. About 11, 1 think. Some 11 languages. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 263 

Mr. ScHERER. Since it has no advertising, it is obviously printed 
for consumption in other countries because advertising would not do 
any good in the magazine. 

Mr. FiSHMAjsT. That is riglit. We think in many instances this 
material is printed specifically for dissemination abroad and not for 
local or domestic consumption. 

Mr. ScHERER. That would be indicated by the fact that it does not 
have any advertising. 

Mr. FiSHMAx. Yes, that is right. In reference to the contents of 
this material, I would like to talk specifically about some of the Eng- 
lish-language material, and if there is some question about the foreign- 
language material, we have brought with us the supervising translator 
who can give us some information on that. 

Mr. Arens. I wonder before you start on that, if it would be con- 
venient for you now, to identify these mail sacks that are behind you 
here ? 

Mr. FiSHMAX. At the suggestion of your staff — — 

Mr. Arens. We asked you to bring typical mail sacks full of ma- 
terial to be processed. 

Mr. FisHMAN. We brought a number of mail sacks as they were 
submitted to us by the Post Office Department. 

Mr. Arexs. Have you mail sacks there that you have never opened 
or checked ? 

Mr. FiSHMAx^. We have had no opportunity to examine the con- 
tents of them. 

Mr. Arexs. Would you pick out there, Mr. Fishman, just a typical 
mail sack, any one of them, and open it now in the course of this 
hearing and describe the material as you see it there, as it arrives at 
the shores of this country ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Do I understand these mail sacks here have not been 
inspected by anyone in this country ? 

Mr. FiSHMAX'. We have not had a chance to get into them yet. 
These are very current arrivals. 

Mr. Arexs. These are mail sacks of bulk mail coming from Iron 
Curtain countries consigned to people in the United States? 

Mr. FiSHMAX^. Yes. We have access to it, and we can examine it. 

Mr. Scherer. These sacks were selected at random from recent 
shipments ? 

Ml'. Fishman. That is right. We receive every day, as I mentioned, 
a quantity of these mail sacks that come to the United States to this 
area from Soviet bloc countries. This lot was selected from last 
Thursday's or Friday's batch of mail. 

Mr. Moulder. Who was the consignee or addressee in this case ? 

Mr. Fishmax'. This is ordinary mail and we have access to them 
without the consent of the addressees. 

Mr. Arexs. There is no first-class mail. This is open mail. 

Mr. FiSHMAX. Xot only that ; but the law provides that the sender 
waive the privacy of the seal so we can examine it to see what it 
contains. Most of this is fourth-class mail, parcel post. 

Mr. Moulder. AMiere is it consigned ? 

Mr. Fishman. This would be in the four-State area around New 
York. 

Mr. Moulder. Are all the packages in there addressed differently ? 



264 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Would you proceed to tell us about ]:)ackiiges as you 
see them from that typical mail sack from the Iron Curtain bloc? 

Mr. FisHMAN. These are individually addressed articles to Roches- 
ter, N. Y. This batch is all for Rochester, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell what it is ? 

Mr. FisHMAK. This is from the Soviet Union. The Literary Gazette 
in the Ukrainian language, a publication which has consistently con- 
tained Communist propaganda. 

Mr. Arens. It is not labeled ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. Nothing at all. These are some publications ad- 
dressed to New York. I think we can mention that these things are 
addressed to the Communist Party of the USA. 

Mr. ScHERER. I didn't hear what you said last. 

Mr. FisHMAN. It is addressed to the Communist Party of the USA. 
The Home Front and Labor's Work. 

Mr, Arens. Wliat is that package you just opened ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. This is a package containing 11 copies of New Times 
in the Russian language, volume 32, 1956. 

Mr. ScHERER. To whom is that package addressed ? 

Mr. Fishman. That is addressed to an individual in Jacksonville, 
Fla. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any label on it indicating that it is Com- 
munist propaganda ? 

Mr. Fishman. Nothing at all. There are no postage stamps on 
this. This is registered mail. 

Mr. Arens. Is the individual recipient who is to get the several 
copies of the magazine you just had in your hand a registered agents 

Mr. Fishman. No ; he is not. 

Mr. Arens. Wouldn't it cross your mind with all that stack of 
magazines he might be disseminating Communist propaganda in 
Florida? 

Mr. Fishman. We would suspect that. 

Mr. Arens. For practical purposes, Mr. Fishman, the Foreign 
Agents Registration Act labeling requirement at the moment is just 
a joke? 

Mr. Fishman. As far as their effectiveness is concerned, it would 
appear that way. 

Mr. Arens. In your 29 years' service with the Customs Bureau you 
have yet to see a single item of Coimnunist propaganda labeled as 
such ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Fishman. Since I am sworn, I would like to amend that by 
saying I have seen some copies of this in the Library of Congress which 
were labeled. These were sample copies which were sent to the Li- 
brary of Congress for their use. 

Mr. Arens. I mean the imported matter. 

Mr. Fishman. I have never seen anything that was labeled in any 
of the imports. 

Mr. Arens. Here are two items purchased by one of the investi- 
gators of our committee the other day. One is from a registered 
agent, and one from a nonregistered agent here in the New York area 
of the same publication, Soviet Union 1957. Neither one of those is 
labeled in accordance with the provisions of the Foreign Agents 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 265 

Reo:istration Act. Can 3-011 give us an accounting as to why that situ- 
ation would prevail? 

Mr. FisHMAx. I would assume that the registered agent who im- 
ported this just did not label it. 

Mr. Arens. And the nonregistered agent just did not label it, either ; 
did he? 

Mr. FiSHMAx. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. For the record, in your opinion and from your knowl- 
edge of the law, Mr. Fishman, that literature which you have just 
told us about should l)e labeled under the Foreign Agents Registration 
Act. 

Mr. FisH]\rAx^ It contains political propaganda and definitely comes 
under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. 

Mr. Arex^s. Mr. Fishman, would j^ou proceed with your description 
of the various items of foreign Communist propaganda in this typical 
mail sack ^ 

Mr. FiSHMAx. We have opened this package. It contains five 
books in the Russian language, title of which is "How Steel Was 
Tempered"' by Astrovsky. *'How Steel Was Tempered" is not a techni- 
cal book on the manufacture of steel. It is merely a title which 
was given to a piece of fiction. We have consistently found this, and 
we have reported this to contain a considerable amount of Communist 
propaganda. 

Mr. Arexs. It is almost ludicrous to ask you, but do you see any 
labeling that it is Communist propaganda,? 

Mr. FiSHMAx. No. I was wondering whether this was legally 
marked to show country of origin. I don't see that. 

Mr. Arexs. To whom is that package destined? 

Mr. FiSHMAx. It happens to be addressed to a bookstore. 

Mr. Arexs, ^Vliere? 

Mr. FiSHMAX. On the west coast. 

Mr. Sciierer. No wonder we have a $500 million deficit in the post 
office. Do you know what proportion of the cost of handling that mail 
is borne by the United States Government ? 

Mr. FiSHMAx. In this case, all of this mail has postage prepaid. 
There is one additional cost that is paid by the United States Post 
Office Department, and that is the delivery in the United States. The 
postage is paid to the United States. We pay the delivery part here. 

Mr. Scherer. But what we get does not compensate us for the cost 
of handling that mail. 

Mr. FiSHMAx. No, it does not. 

Mr, Arexs. Mr. Fishman, do you have the statistics on the amount 
of foreign Communist propaganda which has been confiscated by our 
authorities at ports of entr}^ either because it actually called for the 
forcible overthrow of the Government of the United States, insurrec- 
tion or rebellion, or because it was in violation of certain provisions 
of the Foreign Agents Registration Act which put it in a status of 
being subject to confiscation? 

Mr, FisHMAX. Over any given period ? 

Mr, Arex-^s, Yes. In the course of the last year how much of this 
Communist propaganda from abroad has actually been confiscated 
by our authorities ? 



266 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. FisHMAN. I don't think I have New York statistics. I have the 
report here on San Francisco. The Post Office Department confiscated 
some 62,000 parcels of mail in 1955. I did not bring all of my statistics 
with me. 

Mr. Arens. Would the confiscation over the com^se of the last year 
run as high as a million pieces of items of Communist propaganda? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. I would assume very easily that. 

Mr. Arens. Because those million items are items which advocate 
the forcible overthrow of the Government as distinct from the more 
subtle type of propaganda ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Xo. I am sorry I did not get the force of your ques- 
tion. We find very little of that. 

Mr. Arens. Of the forcible overthrow type ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Of the forcible overthrow. We haA'e not found any 
that we could specifically describe as recommending or advocating 
the forcible overthrow of the United States. That would give us a new 
type of action, because we could bring the offender directly under the 
Tariff Act and penalties there are lots heavier tlian mereh^ requiring 
the tiling to be labeled. 

Mr. Arens. They are more subtle in the propaganda ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. All of this material contains political propaganda 
as that term is defined in the Foreign Agents Registration Act. The 
forcible overthrow of the United States is very carefully avoided. The 
people who prepare this propaganda, I would imagine, have a copy 
of section 305 on the desk in front of them as they write it so as to 
make sure they do not get involved with that, because there we have 
some real teeth in the law. 

Mr. Arens. Apparently even though they have a copy of the For- 
eign Agents Registration Act before them, it does not make much 
difference. 

Mr. FiSH:\rAN. Thev ignore that, but tliev pay attention to the 
Tariff Act. 

Mr. Arens. What material was confiscated? I am a little uncertain 
about that. 

]Mr. FiSHJiAN. All of this material that was sent either unsolicited, 
consigned to people who were not registered agents, material which 
we felt shoulcl not be released because of one of the several reasons I 
just mentioned. For the most part, most of this material has been sent 
unsolicited. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us a little about the content. You were saying 
a moment ago that virtually all of this material, if not all of it, is in 
that status which does not advocate the forcible overthrow of the 
Government, but is more subtle. What is the line that is propagated 
by this material? 

Mr. FisHMAN. Generally speaking, most of this material intends to 
aid the foreign governments preparing it. 

Mr. Moueder. Do you mean it promotes the foreign philosophy or 
Communist philosophy ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. It tries to explain and indoctrinate 
people with their thinking and philosophy. It generally points up 
the advantages of the Communist way of life. 

In addition to that, of course, every once in a while, or in most every 
publication, there is some reference to something which the United 
States or its allies is doing which is so wrong that it is obvious. 



COMJVIUNIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 267 

Mr. Arens. "What do the}' have on Hungary and the revolt in 
Hungary ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Very recently there has been a real effort to explain 
the situation in Hungary. Some new publications have just been 
printed ; for example The Events in Hungary. Any number of indi- 
vidually printed pamphlets and information bulletins are sent here. 
This one is entitled, '"Some Facts on Soviet Assistance to Hungary." 
This one is entitled, ''The Hungarian "Working People Will Uphold 
Their Socialist Gains.'' This one is entitled, "The Kind of Freedom 
Eeaction Wanted for Hungary." 

This is a complete pamphlet entitled, '"Wliat Has Happened in 
Hungary." It gives the entire story about what actually happened 
in Hungary, Communist thinking, of course. 

Mr. SciiERER. Those accounts differ considerably from the reports 
we receive in the United States press. 

Mr. FisHMAX. Yes, from the factual reports. 

Mr. Arens. What is the line with reference to germ warfare in 
Korea? 

Mr. FisiiMAx. Of recent years or the last year or so, there has not 
been any effort to prove that germ warfare was actually employed. 
But for a time there was a considerable quantity of germ warfare 
material sent to the United States. 

Mr. Arexs, What is the line on Eed China and its admission to 
the United Nations ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. There has been consistent reference to this. New 
Times, for example, of January 2i, 1957, talks about the joint Chinese- 
Soviet declaration and empliasizes the strengthening of friendly co- 
operation, condemns tlie aggressive imperialist group for intensifying 
the cold war against China. 

Mr. Ajrens. Have you had an occasion to observe the reproduction 
of the essence of anv of this material in domestic foreign languas^e 
publications ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. In the field we are in, we do have occasion to observe 
wliat is happening on this side, and much of this material is repro- 
duced, xls a matter of fact, a good deal is addressed to the foreign 
language press that publishes a lot of this propaganda. 

Mr. Arens. It would be a domestic variety of the line that would be 
received from the foreign Communist press, is that correct? 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have other observations to make? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. I was just going to mention that you had asked be- 
fore about this attempt to get at the students here. There is right 
now a drive on to recruit students for a new get-together in Moscow. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the World Youth Festival ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Yes, a good deal of printed material is coming in. 
This is a poster. 

Mr. Arens. The headquarters for that organization is in Chicago, 
is it not? I have not seen this exhibit. 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Youth and Students Festival for Peaceful Friend- 
ship, Moscow, July and August 1957. 

Mr. Arens. To whom is that material sent? 

Mr. FisiiMAN. This is sent to eveiy college and university in the 
United States. This refers to a meeting that is just over. '"The Inter- 
national Day of Youth and Students Against Colonialism. Let us 



268 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

jointly struggle against colonialism for national inde|)endence and 
national education and culture." This was on February 21 last. 

Mr. Arens. Xoav, Mr. Fishman, do you have some other observa- 
tions to make with respect to the exhibits ? 

Mr. Fishman. We have submitted to members of the committee 
some samples of this material. I can refer to them. In Labor, No. 20. 
there is an article on page 4 which reads approximately as follows : 
"The U. S. wants to turn other countries into atomic bases." A decla- 
ration in Tass Avritten in strong anti-American terms accuses the 
United States of the creation of international tension and danger of 
war. The recent President's message on economic situation tries to 
present the American economy as a failure. A report from Vienna dis- 
cussing a recent speech of the Austrian Chancellor suggesting Hun- 
garian neutrality calls an unceremonious meddling in international 
affairs of tlie Hungarian people by the United States. 

The People's Daily of Peking, China, claims that the United States 
intends to establish a new airbase on Formosa and the United States 
Embassy in Formosa will spend $25 million on new military airbases. 

Mr. Arens. In what language is that publication? 

Mr. FisHiMAN. Chinese. It has an editorial which is a comment 
on the Eisenhower doctrine and condemns it as nonsense; indicates 
the United States opposition to Soviet Union and Communists. It 
charges that the United States of America is a real invader. It is 
beamed at people of Chinese heritage who don't read American 
newspapers. 

That is the difficulty, that most of these foreign language news- 
pa})ers are sent to people who have no opportunity to read American 
newspapers. They either have no opportunity or just don't take the 
American paper. 

Mr. Arens. They are generally beamed to people who are nationals 
of the country in Avhich the propaganda originates ? 

Mv. Fishman. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, we have discussed here today the Foreign 
Agents Eegistration Act from the standpoint of it being virtually 
ineffectual or at least clearly ignored. What suggestions could you 
make to this committee so that tlie present provisions of the Foreign 
Agents Registration Act and the present intent would be 
consummated? 

Mr. Fishman. I do not intend to state the official position of the 
Treasury Department or the Customs Bureau, but personally and from 
my experience with this work, I think it would be of considerable 
value, first to have the law designate the agency responsible for this 
work that we are doing. Right now, as I mentioned, it is a joint 
responsibility of three administrative agencies, and because of budget 
difficulties it is frequently difficult to act. 

Mr. Arens. What three agencies are they ? 

Mr. Fishman. The Post Office Department, Justice Department, 
to whom we go for advice in connection with this work, and the 
Treasury Department or Bureau of Customs. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have the State Department in there ? 

Mr. Fishman. All of the administrative agencies axe to some extent 
concerned with this problem. We get into the picture because the 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 269 

issue of importation is involved there, and wherever the term impor- 
tation crops up, the Customs Service immediately becomes involved 
in the enforcement. So I think it would be an advantage to have the 
law and the Congress designate the agency concerned. 

I think then budgetwise we would be in a better position to do our 
work. 

Mr. Abens. Would it be helpful if the law provided that anyone, 
irrespective of his status, diplomat, nondiplomat, or whoever he was, 
who was engaged full time in disseminating Communist political 
propaganda from abroad in the United States must register and must 
label the material ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. It would be of help in enforcing the law. 

Mr. ScHEKER. "V'\niy did you say full time ? 

Mr. Arens, To distinguish from a person who might happen to 
pick up a few copies of some magazine and give it to a friend. That 
exception would have to be made, would it not, Mr. Fishmaii, in order 
to have it practicable from the standpoint of law enforcement? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Yes; that is right. We think it would be helpful 
also if a new definition of the requirement for labeling were put nito 
the law, one, perhaps, that would attach the requirement at the time 
of importation, rather than at the discretion of the registered agent 
who disseminates the information. Right now we are policing the 
thing after the agent has a,ccess to the material. We are going out 
-after he has got it to see whether he is violating the law. 

Mr. Arens. And it is virtually impossible to do that unless you 
were to have an army of inspectors. 

Mr. FisiiMAN. It is almost impossible right now to make any 
attempt to do that. 

Mr. Arens. Because an agent who would receive it in Kansas City, 
Mo., disseminate it throughout the Midwest, would not be in such a 
position that you would have access to him or to study his operation. 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. Then one very imj^ortant thing in 
connection with that is that it puts the agent in the driver's seat. It 
gives him an opportunity to define what is political propaganda as 
he understands it. He can very well claim tliat he is labeling what 
he considers to be political propaganda, rather than what we might 
consider it under the law. 

Mr. Arens. How about your manpower, Mr. Fishman ? 

Mr. Fishman. For the three units that we now have in operation, 
our manpower does a pretty good job. We think we have about 
enough to carry these units. Actually, as I mentioned, we ai'e unable 
to do more because of our budget. If we were al)]e to. budgetwise. 
we could set up additional units and do a better job of keeping this 
material in accordance with the law. 

Mr. ScHERER. You would recommend, then, that this material be 
labeled when it reaches you at the port of entry ? 

Mr. Fishman. Before actual release. 

Mr. ScHERER. Before release from where? 

Mr. Fishman. From customs custody. There are provisions of 

law which we now enforce, customs provisions of law ; for example, 

one of them requires that every article of foreign origin be marked to 

:show the country in which it was made. That is a requirement which 

: ■'■ir, '•■ . •, ■ :■.■.■•., \ ■ 



270 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

attaclies at the time of importation. We do not release merchandise 
mitil it is properly labeled. 

Mv. ScHERER. Who would label these sacks? They would not be 
labeled when they reach the country. 

Mr. FisHMAN. We are trying; to get at tlie registered agent princi- 
pally. If the agent wanted the material he would come down and 
label it. It would be subject to seizure at the time of arrival as other 
material is if it is not properly brought into compliance with existing 
American law. 

Mr. ScHERER. Before you released it, it would have to be labeled ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Should it not be labeled by the sender ? 

Mr. FisHMAN. It would save him a lot of money if he did it abroad. 
If he takes it apart here and labels it, it will cost a lot of money. 

Mr. ScHERER. And if it is not labeled, you confiscate it. 

Mr. FisHMAx. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. How about the flood of material that is going in transit ? 
"Wliat could you suggest so that that could be either labeled or con- 
fiscated ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. It would require actually that the receiving coun- 
try make its representations to the State Department and in turn to 
the Post Office Department so that we can effectively stop it from 
coming through the United States. 

Mr. Arens. If someone in tlie State Department in diplomatic 
status would call the officials of Peru and say in effect, "Gentlemen, 
there are tons of Communist propaganda going through the United 
States beamed at your country ; do you want that material to come in 
or do you want us to confiscate it?" there might be something accom- 
plished, don't you believe ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. That might be helpful. 

Mr. Scherer. Shouldn't there be some label attached to that mate- 
rial that goes through this country for transshipment ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. The law is pretty specific on the requirements and I 
think they apply to the United States rather than to any other foreign 
country. This material is actually intended for ultimate destination 
in South American countries. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that would con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness, and we have one more 
witness for this morning. 

Mr. Laughlin. ]\Ir. Chairman, I had one point I wanted to make ; 
In Mr. Fishman's division the parallel may not have occurred, but it 
seems to me that a very close parallel in our work comes with the label- 
ing requirements. You mentioned the Pure Food and Drug Act. We 
also have on import the labeling requirement on all alcoholic bever- 
ages. There you have a licensee importer. He has to be licensed to 
import it. But if the label on those bottles does not tell the pur- 
chaser what he is entitled to know — what is in the bottle — it is not re- 
leased by customs. It should be done abroad. If not done, he has an 
opportunity to come and relabel it, and make the label proper before 
we release it from custody. 

Mr. Scherer. These items to which you are now referring, foods, 
drugs, and so forth, that are imported, aren't they labeled by the manu- 
facturer or by the sender before they come into this country ? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 271 

Mr. Laugiilin. Yes. sir, and if improperly labeled, we hold them 
until they are relabeled properly. 

Mr. ScHERER. Why couldn't we, then, in this respect require that 
these articles as they come to us into this country be properly labeled ? 

Mr. Laugiilix. That is, I think, what jou are driving at, Mr. 
Fishman. 

Mr. ScHERER. Why should we give them an opportunity to come here 
and relabel them and add further costs to our mail? 

Mr. Fishman. That is right. It would be simple to do it at the 
time. The issue whether it is in interstate commerce and so on is fre- 
quently raised here. 

Mr. Arens. Have you gentlemen in your activities acquired in- 
formation respecting the estimated annual expenditures of the Soviet 
Union and its satellites on foreign Communist political propaganda ? 

Mr. FiSHMAN. We have not, but it is astronomical. 

Mr. Arens. It runs about $3 billion a year. 

Mr. FisHMAN. That is what I heard. 

Mr. Sciierer. That was the testimony of the USIA which testitied 
before us. 

Mr. Fishman. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. About $3 billion a year the Soviet Union and its bloc is 
spending on foreign Communist propaganda. 

Mr. Sciierer. Of course, all that does not come into the United 
States. That goes all over the world. 

Mr. Arens. §400 million a year in India. 

That would conclude the testimony of these witnesses, and we have 
just one more witness this morning, if you please. 

Mr. Moulder. We wish to thank you, Mr. Laughlin. We express 
our complimentary opinion of the efficient work which you are doing 
with the limitations that may be imposed upon you as a result of 
lack of certain amendments or corrections that should be made in 
the law of our country. I also wish to commend and praise ]\Ir. Fish- 
man for the work he has been doing in his official capacity, as well 
as 3'our splendid cooperation in appearing before this committee as 
you have, and making the recommendations you have, which will 
be of great importance and assistance to this committee in recom- 
mending remedial legislation for Congress to act upon. 

I also want to comment upon the splendid manner in which you 
prepared these documents for the committee staff and the members 
of the committee to examine. It is certainly most unusual, and the 
first experience that we have had with such efficient service on the 
part of public officials. 

Mr. Fishman. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Laughlin. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Moulder. Thank you. You are excused. 

(Witness excused. ) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Serge Buteneff. Will you be sworn. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Buteneff. I do. 



272 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

TESTIMONY OF SERGE BUTENEFF 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. BuTENEFF. My name is Serge Bntenell. I live in New York 
City, and I am administrative assistant to Mr. Fishman in the re- 
stricted merchandise section. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient for you to keep your voice up 
just a bit? 

Mr. Buteneff. Shall I repeat? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Buteneff. My name is Serge Buteneff. I am a resident of 
New York City. I am assistant to Mr. Fishman in the restrictive 
merchandise division. I am in charge of the office which reviews all 
the propaganda material coming into this port. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a specialty in any particular language or 
languages ? 

Mr. Buteneff. Yes; I do. I know Russian, Polish, French, and 
I understand other Slavic languages. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Buteneff, I understand you can testify in summary 
form, giving the committee a better insight into the content of some 
of this Communist foreign political propaganda which is coming into 
the United States at this port of entry. 

Mr. Buteneff. I will trv to explain approximately what is our 
problem here. Of course, ttie problem is so great that it is impossible 
to do it in a very few moments. 

As we all know, the propaganda as viewed by the Conmiunist world 
is one of the main weapons they utilize to subvert and to ultimately 
make their world conquest. 

What I would like to say. first, is that propaganda is beamed at all 
sorts of people — intellectuals, nonintellectuals, foreigners, and Amer- 
icans. Therefore, it covers almost every possible subject or aspect of 
life or problem which we can think of. Generally speaking, propa- 
ganda could be divided into, let us say, theoretical and to religious, 
political, anticolonial and anticapitalist, economic, and so on and so 
forth. There are so many subdivisions in the types of propaganda 
we receive here. Yet all of them and each of them can be divided 
into 2 categories, 2 main categories. One of them is the direct propa- 
ganda and the other is the indirect propaganda. 

Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt you at this point ? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Buteneff. As I was saying, there is the direct and indirect 
propaganda. To us, personally, those who review the material, the 
biggest problem is the indirect propaganda, because this is the one 
which is most noticeable. 

(Mr. Moulder left the room.) 

Mr. Buteneff. I would like, also, to point out that approximately 
90 percent of all printed periodical material coming into the United 
States is published in foreign languages. Only about 10 percent of 
it is in English. This to me, personally — of course, I speak from my 
personal point of view — means that actually a great effort right now 
is being made by the Communist countries in order to infiltrate the 
so-called minorities in the United States. Thev send them not onlv 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 273 

what we have discussed in the other hearing-s, the ''return home" type 
of propaganda, but they actually do send them material which is con- 
sumed and which is distributed within the particular country, knowing 
that actually here in the United States those minorities are senti- 
mentally or sometimes even familywise linked with their former 
country. 

I know from my own experience again, speaking to some of the 
people who do receive and who do read some of this material, that even 
when they discard that obvious propaganda material which you can 
find in a magazine, this magazine represents to them a sort of senti- 
mental item which arrived from their former home. In this publica- 
tion they have in front of them they look for news from home, what is 
going on, the activities, how people live. Of course, that creates a 
nostalgia which later on becomes so big that sometimes it is very 
difficult for them to continue to discard the propaganda material 
which first was so obvious to them and later on slowly becomes more 
real. 

Also, I would say that when they read American papers on the 
activities in Soviet Russia and they get only one point of view, they 
get the American point of view. When they get the same news from 
a local paper, they have the impression of sort of looking or peeking 
through a keyhole and seeing a family going through its daily life, 
happiness and sorrows and so on, and they have the impression that 
they have a real picture of what is going on in the given country. 

Of course, I have to stress, also, the point that most of these publica- 
tions do stress the fact that everything is so wonderfully organized 
and people are so happy in their countries. Although a given publica- 
tion might not be essentially designed for the purpose of returning 
home those who have left the country, very often they have an article 
or two pertaining to that jjarticular subject, and dealing with that 
subject, and trying to get the people to come at least as visitors or 
tourists to look for themselves, and to ascertain for themselves how life 
is beautiful and actually nothing has changed, and that people are 
still the same and so on. 

]Mr. SciiERER. You state these publications represent the people 
as happy and life being beautiful. I am reminded of the publication 
that was introduced some time ago in the Chicago hearings, a publi- 
cation published in Hungary that depicted life as serene and happy 
and everybody was successful. It was published 3 weeks before the 
revolution. 

Mr. BuTENEFF. I think there is practically no publication dealing 
with public life in any of the Communist countries which does not 
represent the life there as being happy and completely satisfactory to 
everybody. 

Mr. SniEKER. That struck home, because Me had in our hands in the 
hearings in Chicago, as I remember, the ])ublication that came out 
of Hungary that depicted conditions in Hungary just as you have 
related them; and then we had Chicago newspapers of that very da}^ 
recounting the atrocities that were taking place, and tlie unrest that 
actually existed in Hungary as of that moment. It dramatized just 
what you are saying. 

90121 — 57 — pt. 5 3 



274 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. BuTENEPF. I would like to say one more thing about this "return 
home" propaganda which now is found not only in the publications 
which deal specifically with this problem, but also in other publica- 
tions. There is a new magazine — a Polish magazine — coming out, 
which is called Our Homeland. It is issued by a society which is 
called the Polonia Society for Liaison With Immigration. There is 
no American propaganda in it at all. The only thing they print is the 
local news, news about various Polish colonies in various countries, 
trying to get them united, reminding them that wherever they are, 
they still are Poles, and that they should support the Government in 
its struggle, particularly right now, for democratization; and they 
send to their representative organizations here in the United States — 
there is one, for instance, in New York — books for education of chil- 
dren. They try to help them to educate their children in the true 
Polish spirit so that they know their language, the history, the tradi- 
tions. So they infiltrate all these minorities over here. 

When I said that 90 percent of the publications are printed in for- 
eign languages, it proves that the main object of this propaganda is 
to sort of demoralize or to shake the weakest element here in the 
United States. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent does this propaganda coming from the 
Iron Curtain bloc undertake to cause the recipients to bring pressure 
or to influence the Government of the United States in our policies? 

Mr. BuTENEFF. I would not be able to say to what extent it does ex- 
cept to say that obviously when a person receives continuously a maga- 
zine he starts to long for the country, he starts to understand various 
problems the way they understand, because he feels himself, as I say 
about Poles, that he is a Pole, too. Whenever they in their magazine 
start to defend their point of view on any issue, he starts to think that 
this is the Polish way of thinking. If he is a good Polish national, he 
should more or less take the same point of view. Whether he can 
influence his local authorities to later on influence the policies of the 
Government, I would not be able to say. 

Mr. Arens. This material is not beamed just at the hard core of the 
Communist conspiracy of this country ? 

Mr. BuTENEFF. No. As a matter of fact, I would say that it looks 
as if the Communist Party of the United States is left alone to make 
the Commmiist propaganda by themselves for the Americans. 

Mr. Arens. At the present time we have a little over 20,000 hard- 
core members of the Communist conspiracy in this country. That is 
correct ; is it not ? 

Mr. Buteneff. I presume so, if you say so. 

Mr. Arens. These are the equivalent of foreign agents on American 
soil ; are they not ? 

Mr. Buteneff. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Arens. But they are not the ones to whom this f)ropaganda is 
beamed. 

Mr. Buteneff. Not entirely. Of course, some of them do receive 
this propaganda. Most of the propaganda is not beamed at them. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any other observations or information 
which you would like to give to the committee ? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 275 

Mr. BuTENEFF, I think that covers, on the surface, the problems 
we face ourselves. 

Mr. x4lRens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Scherer, that the committee 
stand in recess for just a few moments because the chairman has an 
announcement he wants to make as soon as he returns to the hearing- 
room. 

Mr. Scherer. The committee will be in recess for a few minutes. 

( Short recess. ) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess until 2 p. m. 

(Whereupon at 11 : 55 a. m., the committee was recessed, to be re- 
convened at 2 p. m., this same day. Committee members present: 
Representatives Moulder and Scherer.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, MARCH 12, 1957 

(The subcommittee was reconvened at 2 p. m. Committee member 
present : Representative Scherer.) 

Mr. Scherer. (presiding). The committee will be in session. 

Counsel, will you call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Before callino- the next witness, may I respectfully 
request that this record now show your order of the continuation of 
subpenas served on witnesses who were required to appear here at 2 
o'clock today until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock? 

Mr. Scherer. The record will so indicate. All witnesses who were 
subpenaed for 2 o'clock today, with the exception of the witness Jolm 
Lautner, are now excused until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, and will 
return tomorrow morning without futher notice under the subpena 
which has been served on them. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, would you kindly come forward and re- 
main standing while an oath is administered to you. 

Mr. Scherer. Will you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly 
swear the testimony you are about to give in this hearing shall be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Lautner. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN LAUTNER 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Lautner. My name is John Lautner. My residence is in 
Youngstown, Ohio, and my occupation is consultant with the Govern- 
ment on communism. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, would you give us just a brief sketch of 
your own personal life with particular reference to any activities 
w^iich you may have had in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Lautner. I joined the Communist Party in 1929 in New York 
City in the late fall — November or December. In 1930 I was sent 
to one of tlie training schools organized by the Hungarian National 
Bureau of the Communist Party. After graduation from that school, 
I was sent to Detroit, Mich., as the district secretary of the Hungarian 
National Bureau in Michigan. 

In addition to that, while there I was also api^ointed to the Control 
Commission as secretary there in 1930. I functioned in Detroit until 
May 1931. I was appointed to Canada. I was in Canada for about 



276 coMMinsriST propaganda ix the united states 

11 months as national secretary of the Hungarian Bureau there, and 
editor of a weekly paper. 

Upon return I was assigned to Cleveland, Ohio, as district secre- 
tary of the Hungarian Bureau and one of the editors of the Hungarian 
daily Communist paper there. 

In addition, while there I also organized and was director of a 
training school for the Hungarian National Bureau of the Communist 
Party. 

In 1933, I came back to New York. For a while I was on the lan- 
guage department of the New York district of the Communist Party, 
and in 1933 in the fall I became an organizer in New York City of 
the New York district of the Communist Party. I functioned in that 
capacity until April 1936. 

Then I was reassigned as district organizer of the Communist 
Party in the State of West Virginia, where I functioned until the 
end of 1940. In 1941 I was sent to the National Training School. 
After graduation from that school I was placed on the Nationality 
Groups Commission of the Commmiist Party and National Hungarian 
Bureau Secretary of the Communist Party. 

I functioned in these capacities until I was drafted into the Army in 
November 1942. In addition to that, in xlpril 1942 I was also sent 
to the International Workers Order as head of the Hungarian section 
of the International Workers Order. I functioned in addition in 
that capacity until I was drafted into the Army. 

In the Army I was selected from basic training into the military 
intelligence training school. After graduation from there, I was 
assigned to psychological warfare in the Mediterranean Theater of 
Operations. I served there 25 months. 

After returning in June 1945, I was reassigned as national secre- 
tary of the Hungarian Bureau and put on the Nationality Groups 
Commission of the Commmiist Party. I functioned in these capacities 
in the year of 1945. Then I took sick for a while, and in 1946 I was 
assigned in the New York district to organize the building trades 
party members into an industrial section. 

I functioned in that capacity until May 1947. Then I was assigned 
as head of the New York Review Commission of the Communist 
Party. I functioned in that capacity until the I7th of January 1950 
when I left the Communist Party. 

In addition to that in September 1948, I was also placed on the 
National Review Commission of the Commmiist Party and functioned 
in that capacity also until I left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Inviting your attention specifically to your background 
and experience on the Nationality Groups Commission and the work 
with the International Workers Order, could you tell this committee 
the emphasis which the Communist Party places upon the work in 
the foreign language groups in the United States ? 

Mr. Lautner. The main reason for the emphasis on the importance 
of the nationality group work was the fact that the key nationality 
groups for which sympathy and understanding the Communist Party 
was striving for was in the basic industry — like steel, mining, packing, 
auto, et cetera. There is where you find a large section of the na- 
tionality groups in these industries. Therefore, from the point of 
view of the Communist Party it was extremely important to influence 



coivumunist propaganda in the united states 277 

through the nationality groups and their language papers these seg- 
ments of the working class because it was essential to win the support 
of these workers for the program and activities of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent during your experience did the Com- 
munist Party control significant segments of the foreign language 
press in the United States ? 

Mr. Lautner. The Communist Party through the Nationality 
Groups Commission gave leadership and guidance to the various 
nationality group bureaus that were responsible for publications. 
For example, in the Hungarian field we had the Hungarian Daily 
Journal after 1945, which had at that time about 7,000 circulation. 
The main readership came from the industrial segment of American 
life, and the paper tried to play an important role in reflecting the 
party policies and party program and the party activities through 
this publication. 

It was tlie same situation with the other papers. The national 
bureau secretaries were invited to party gatherings, to nationality 
commission meetings. Editors were invited by members of the polit- 
ical committee of the party where they were briefed on how best to 
put forward the party line as to the party day-to-day activities and 
how to reflect that best in their various newspapers. 

If we speak of control, it was that kind of a control. 

Mr. Aeens. What was the year in which you broke from the Com- 
munist conspiracy? 

Mr. Lautner. On the I7th of January 1950. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, there are in the United States at the 
present time an estimated 20,000 members of the Communist Party. 

]Mr. Lautner. My estimate is a different one. 

Mr. Arens. What is your estimate? 

Mr. Lautner. My estimate is that at best they have about 17,000 
paper members. The actual dues-paying members — what it is, I don't 
know. But it is approximately at most 17,500 paper members. If 
I may say what my estimate is based upon — I attended numerous con- 
ventions of the Communist Party and the ratio of representation was 
one delegate for 100 members. In smaller districts, the 102 or 103 
members, or 207 or 215 members, for the fraction they had an addi- 
tional voting delegate. The highest vote was given to one of the 
candidates to the national committee. I think it was 230 or 233, or 
something to that effect. If you take off this fractional voting dele- 
gation and if they adhere to the old-paper approach in membership 
and the old 100 formula voting delegate, I think it is about 17,500. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you applying this analysis to the recent Com- 
munist convention? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes; my past experiences with the appropriation of 
votes on the basis of membership to the present convention. I may 
be wrong, but I think there is no reason for me to believe yet that 
there was a deviation from that approach. 

Mr. Arens. How many people in the United States in your judg- 
ment are former members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Lautner. At one time with the YCL there were approximately 
100,000. 



278 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE XJNITED STATES 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, since about 1950, the intellectual dupes 
and the starry-eyed liberals who were in the Communist Party have 
long since been dissassociated ; have they not ? 

Mr. Lautnee. A lot of them; yes. 

Mr. Abens. The principal membership of the Communist Party 
now is hard core ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Latjtner. I would estimate so ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. So we have 17,500, by your estimate, hard-core members 
of the Communist Party ; is that correct? 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. These 17,500 are in effect foreign agents on American 
soil ; are they not ? 

Mr. Lautner. In a sense, yes, they are. 

Mr. Arens. They are responsive to the will of the Kremlin ? 

Mr. Lautner, Definitely so. If they did not learn from what 
events took place and they did not draw the proper lessons from what 
happened in the last few years, I think they are just hopelessly lost 
as far as America is concerned. 

Mr. Arens. We have an estimated 6,000 FBI agents in the United 
States who are engaged in a great number of law-enforcement under- 
takings, is that correct ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. Arens. So we have about three times the number of foreign 
agents on American soil working full time in espionage, sabotage, and 
subversion as we have FBI agents working just part time undertaking 
to protect this country; isn't that correct? 

Mr. Lauther, On the basis of your figures, that is correct. I don't 
know just exactly how many FBI agents there are. 

Mr. Arens. The hard-core members of the Communist Party get 
at the nerve centers; do they not? 

Mr. Lautner. It depends on where they function. Some do and 
some do not. 

Mr. Arens. The objective is to get at the nerve centers; isn't it? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes; industrial nerve centers, I would say all seg- 
ments of human relationship in the United States, whether it be 
industry or science or the arts or the professions. They are everywhere. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent is the individual Communist at a nerve 
center able to influence non-Communists ? 

Mr. Lautner. If he is known as an open Communist, his influence 
is not much. 

Mr. Arens. The Communist Party now is pretty much under- 
ground ; is it not ? 

Mr. Latjtner. Some segments of it are still underground, yes. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent is the underground member of the 
Communist conspiracy able to influence non-Communists? 

Mr, Lautner. If they hide their identities as Communsts, they 
are extremely eloquent and vocal and articulate in putting forward 
their lines a.nd they still can influence a lot of people, especially when 
issues come up and sides are taken on issues, whether it be in the 
economic field or the political field. They can still give benders in 
their direction and people will listen to them, there is no doubt about 
that. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 279 

Mr. Arens. Wliat was the relationship between the International 
Workers Order and the Communist foreign language press during 
your experience? 

Mr. Lautner. My first acquaintance with the IWO came somewhere 
in 1932, when I came back from Canada when various national group 
sections began to join it. I was at the Chicago convention. I think 
it was in 1932 or 1933. All I remember is that the Chicago Fair was 
going on at the time. The following resolution was voted by the Hun- 
garian section there. Besides being part of the International Workers 
Order, the membership — the section itself — will tax the membership 
an extra 10 cents per member, a so-called press tax. That 10 cents per 
each member was divided into 8 cents for the Hungarian Communist 
paper at that time, and 2 cents for the Daily Worker. 

I think other sections of the IWO followed the same routine by tax- 
ing their members press taxes at that time. Their respective papers 
got 8 cents — and 2 cents went to the Daily Worker. Besides that, there 
was other financial support to the language press and the Daily Worker 
in the form of full page advertisements and greetings on numerous 
occasions in the Daily Worker. 

Besides that, the readership in the main for these language papers 
came from the membership of the lAVO. For example, I laiow in the 
Hungarian section another source of revenue was to print the full min- 
utes of the executive committee meeting of the Hungarian section of 
the IWO for which there was a considerable payment made to the 
newspaper. Eeadership and financial support came from the IWO. 

In addition to that, IWO members in many parts of the country, 
particularly in the larger cities, went out in campaigns to gain new 
subscribers for their respective Communist language newspapers. 
There was a very close working relationship between the language 
papers and the IWO and that relationship was always encouraged by 
the Nationality Groups Connnission of the Communist Party itself. 
That is the type of relationship the party wanted. 

Mr. Arens. Is there such a thing as a pipeline for directives from 
Moscow to the foreign language press in the United States? 

Mr. Lautner. Directives do come and did come in various forms. 
There is not one pipeline. There are all sorts of methods employed. 
In the case of the Communist International, the congresses estab- 
lished the tactical line for the parties to follow. These tactical lines 
were printed in publications like the Communist International and 
the Inprecorr, the International Press Correspondence, and other pub- 
lications. Here the party, as I stated before, made it its business to sit 
down with the nationality group bureaus and editors of these news- 
papers and through conferences saw to it that the party line was prop- 
erly reflected in these language papers. 

The Nationality Groups Commission, previously known as the lan- 
guage department of the party, made a survey and study of these lan- 
guage newspapers from time to time to see how they reflected the party 
line in the newspapers. 

Mr. Scherer. Did these practices about which you are telling us con- 
tinue up to the time that you left the party in 1950 ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. After 1945 it took a different form. "When the 
Communist Information Bureau w'as established in 1947, the official 
organ of the Communist Information Bureau was a weekly paper 



280 COJMAIUXIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 

called For a Lastine: Peace, for a People's Democracy. That reflected 
the international line, so to speak — the thinkino- of the international 
leaderships, such as the report to the Warsaw Conference that laid 
down the fundamental tactical task for a coming period after the 
formation of the Cominform — this found its way in the channels of 
propaganda to the party presses over here through yarious methods — 
through consultations, conferences, and the Nationality Groups Com- 
mission had meetings. 

Sometimes differences developed because these papers sometimes fell 
into the error of trying to reflect tlie desires and needs and necessities 
of their respective nationalit}^ gioup parties on the other side. I can 
give you a number of examples. 

There was a cleaA^age between leading Italian and Yugoslav party 
members on the question of Trieste, for instance, when the Trieste sit- 
uation became an issue in 1946 or 1947. There was another incident, a 
cleavage between Yugoslavia and Greece leading comrades in this 
country on the question of Macedonia. In the Nationality Groups 
Commission we always tried to iron it out. Here we don't see the 
difficulties that their respective parties have in relation to united 
fronts in their respective countries. The Italian party liad its united 
front with other groups in Itah-, and therefore it had to conciliate 
and give in to national desires and follow a certain line that may be in 
conflict with the party line in Yugoslavia. 

Our task over here was to unify ourselves to face as a united group 
the problems pertaining to the American Communist Party, "Forget 
about the issues over there.'" That is the way we tried to compose the 
difi'erences on the Nationality Groups Commission at tlie time. 

Mr. Arens. What was your experience with reference to the finan- 
cial structure of the Communist pajDers ? 

Mr. Lautner. Like every paper, a Communist paper also has two 
miain sources of stable income, that is, from subscriptions and sales 
and from advertising. When you work out the yearly budget for a 
newspaper, especially a Communist newspaper, they would fall far 
short of the required amount of money needed for a budget to publish 
a paper throughout the year. There are other ways of raising funds, 
like all sorts of campaigns, picnics. Through the IWO a lot of money 
was raised. In other instances, a shot was put into the arm of a sick 
paper from time to time through loans and also through money that 
came from other sources. These were in tlie main the financial re- 
sources of a Communist paper. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you now, during the course of your 
membership in the Communist Party, did you know a person by the 
name of Zoltan Deak? 

]\Ir. Lautner. Yes. 

Mr. Aeens. Did you know that person as a Communist? 

Mr. Lautner. Zoltan Deak, the editor of a Communist paper, I 
kneAv of before 1945, but I first got acquainted with him after I came 
out of the Army in 1945 when he attended Hungarian bureau meetings. 
Later on he w^as assigned as the associate editor of the Hungarian Daily 
Journal, and later on became the editor and was a member of the 
National Hungarian Bureau of the Communist Party. 

Mr. ScHERER. AVere not a couple of pieces of mail addressed to him 
in the mail sack that we saw this morning ? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 281 

Mr. Lautner. On the Hinioanan situation? Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What is he doing now ? 

Mr. Lautner. He is editor of the Hungarian Word, a weekly 
paper that reflects tlie party policies and the i^arty line today in the 
Hungarian community. 

Mr. Arens. May I ask you this. During the course of your experi- 
ence, were the Communist editors under discipline to put the Commu- 
nist Party line in the publications which they edited? 

Mr. LAU^rNER. Yes. In this instance the discipline came from two 
directions, first from above. If the party line was not followed the 
person speaking for that line in the paper was severely reprimanded, 
and, if necessary, removed. That happened, too. Also, there is a 
severe criticism and sometimes asking for discipline from below, 
from various committees in various cities that criticize the paper. 
Their critical evaluation is needed also at times by the editor. So it 
comes from two difi'erent sources. At this moment the editor of the 
Hungarian paper is under such criticism from above and below. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership in the Commu- 
nist Party, did you know as a Communist a person by the name of 
Alex, A-l-e-x, Rosner, R-o-s-n-e-r? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. Would you kindly identify him ? 

Mr. Lautner. A1 Rosner I first met when he was a student in the 
Cleveland school that I spoke about before. This was in 1932 or 1933, 
thereabouts. Then I lost track of him. Then I knew him as the 
business manager of the Hungarian Daily Journal around 1947, or 
thereabouts, and from then on until I left the Communist Party he 
was in that position. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you know where he is now ? Do you know what his 
occupation is ? 

Mr. Lautner. He is still business manager of the Hungarian weekly 
Communist paper. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a Communist? 

Mr. Lautner. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your experience in the Com- 
munist Party known Louis Dattler, D-a-t-t-1-e-r? 

jMr. Lautner. Yes. Louis Dattler became a member of the Hun- 
garian National Bureau somewhere around 1946 or thereabouts. He 
IS a painting contractor from the Bronx. He was still on the Llun- 
garian Bureau at the time I left the Coimmunist Party. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Lautner. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know in the course of your experience as a 
member of the Communist Partj' a person by the name of Arpad, 
A-r-p-a-d, F. Nagy, N-a-g-y ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. He also became a member of the national bu- 
reau around 1946, and he functioned in that capacity at the time I left 
the party. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what he is doing now? 

Mr. Lautner. From my own personal knowledge, I don't know. 

Mr. ScHERER. What have you learned? 

Mr. Lautner. I know he is in New York. I know he is still associ- 
ated with the paper. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat paper? 



282 COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Lautner. The Hungarian Word. I loiow from a publication, 
"A Yearly Calendar*' they put out that he was the — they put it out 
sometime back in 1952 or thereabouts — he was the president of the 
Hungarian section of the International Workers Order, and is still 
associated with the paper today. 

Mr. Arens. In passing, may I invite your attention to the Interna- 
tional Workers Order. As we all know, pursuant to an action which 
was brought in New York State, the charter of the IWO was revoked, 
whicli lopped off the leaves at the top of the tree. Are the roots of the 
organization still in existence? 

Mr. Lautner. Of course it is. They function in other forms, like 
cultural clubs; for instance, in Youngstown they are functioning. 
They do. I will give you an exam]Dle. A yearbook was published 
in 1957 and the basic cadre of the IWO is still there in every city — 
Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York. They may function under 
different names and for different purposes now — cultural activities, 
et cetera. 

Mr. Arens. But still under Communist Party discipline? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know^ as a Communist a person by the name of Mar- 
garet, M-a-r-g-a-r-e-t, Adler, A-d-1-e-r? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Please identifj^ her. 

Mr. Lautner. Margaret Adler was the business manager of the 
German weekly Communist paper in New York here. She used to 
come to New York County meetings from time to time. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the G'erman- American Tribune ? 

Mr. Lautner. That is the paper now, the German-American 
Tribune. I recall in 1949 or thereabouts — 1948 or 1949 — at the New 
York State organization Margaret Adler organized a meeting, I think 
in the Hotel Diplomat, for Gerhart Eisler and Bob Thompson. 

Mr. Arens. Did you as a member of the Communist Party know 
as a Communist a person by the name of Catherine, C-a-t-h-e-r-i-n-e, 
Gyarmaty, G-y-a-r-m-a-t-y ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. She was a party member. She was a member 
of the Hungarian National Bureau, as a matter of fact, and editor 
of a monthly magazine called Women's World and I think she still 
functions in that capacity today. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Clara, 
C-1-a-r-a, Reich, R-e-i-c-h? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. Clara Reich was a member of the Communist 
Party. She was attached to a branch in the Bronx. She was the 
technical secretary or administrative secretary of the Hungarian sec- 
tion of the IWO at the time I was the national secretary of it, and 
during the national secretaryship of other leading Hungarian Com- 
munists. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what she is doing now ? 

Mr. Lautner. No, I don't know. She is associated in one way or 
another with the Women's World. 

Mr. Arens. Did you Iniow a person while you were a member of the 
Communist Party, a Communist by the name of Michael Tkach? 



COAtMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 283 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. He was the editor of the Ukrainian Daily 
News. Mike Tkach to me was also known as Nestus in the early 1930's 
when he was a member of the Control Commission of the Communist 
Party. Later on I served with him on the Nationality Groups Com- 
mission in 1941 and 1942 before I went mto the Army. Mike Tkach 
was one of the architects in building the All-Slav Congress in this 
country, in initiating it in those early days, 1941, 1942. 

Mr. Ajrexs. Do you know what he is doing? 

Mr. Lautner. He is editor of the Ukrainian Dailj' News. 

Mr. Arens. Here in New York City ? 

JMr. Lautner. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Commmiist a person by the name of Irving- 
Freed, F-r-e-e-d? 

Mr. Lautner. I knew an Irving Freed who was a city editor of the 
Morning Freiheit in the early 1930's and if we are talking about the 
same Irving Freed, that is him. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know that Irving Freed to whom you are 
referring to be a member of the Commimist Party ? 

Mr. Lautner. That Irving Freed was, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist l*arty know as a Communist a person by the name of Theodore 
Bayer, B-a-y-e-r? 

jNIr. Lautner. Teddy Bayer, yes. Teddj^ Bayer was a member in 
section 18, where I was a section organizer in 1933, 1934, 1935 and part 
of 1936. At one time he was a member of my section conmiittee there 
while he was business manager of Soviet Russia Today. He was for 
a short time also educational director of section 18, back in the mid- 
1930's, and he was a party member in that section. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what he is doing today ? 

Mr. Laui'ner. He was associated with the Soviet Friendship Coun- 
cil, and also he was president of the Russky Golos Corp., and in 1945 
or 1946 I was in negotiations with him to move the Hungarian Daily 
Journal from Avenue A and 14th Street, where we were situated at 
that time — that whole section was to be torn down and Stuyvesant 
Town was to be built there, and we had to move — so I was negotiating 
with Teddy Bayer to move the Daily Hungarian Journal into the same 
building where the Russky Golos was. I had to negotiate with Teddy 
Bayer on the details and Ihiances involved. 

Mr. Arens. What is this publication Russky Golos to which you 
just alluded? 

Mr. Lautner. Russky Golos is the Communist paper in the Russian 
language printed at 16th and Irving Place. I think it is 130 East 
16th Street. . 

Mr. ScHERER. Who was Theodore Bayer? 

Mr. Lautner. The president of the corporation there. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he still a member of the Communist Party 6 
years ago when you left the party ? 

Mr. Lautner. When I left, definitely yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Samuel 
J. Nikolauk? 

Mr. Lautner. He was in the IWO. He was secretary of the 
Russian section of the IWO. He was a party member and I took 



284 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

part in party meetings with him while I was in the IWO and Na- 
tionality Groups Commission. 

Mr. Arens. \\niat is he doing now ? 

Mr. Lautner. I think he is treasurer of the Ukrainian Daily News 
or Russky Golos Corp., one of them. I think it is the Russky 
Golos. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party did you know as a Communist a person by the name of 
Paul Novick? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. Paul Novick when I first knew him was as- 
sociate editor of the Morning Freiheit. Later on he became editor of 
the Moniing Freiheit and attended numerous party meetings such as 
conventions, national committee plenums, conferences, etc. 

Mr. Arens. "What is he doing now? 

Mr. Lautner. I think he is still editor of the Morning Freiheit. 

Mr. Scherer. Was he still a member of the Communist Party 
when you left in 1950 ? 

Mr. Lautner. He was. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party, did you know as a Connnunist a person by the name 
of John Gates ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. The first time I met John Gates was in 
Youngstown, Ohio, around 1932 or 1933, when he was the Young 
Communist League section organizer in Youngstown, Ohio, and I 
was functioning in Cleveland, I think, and I was assigned to teach a 
class of YCL'ers that he had organized on the west side of Youngs- 
town, Ohio. That was my first acquaintance with John Gates at 
the time. 

I met him later on at numerous national committee meetings, con- 
ferences. 

Mr, Scherer. You mean committee meetings and conferences of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. He was editor in chief of the Daily Worker 
at the time I left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Joseph 
Starobin, S-t-a-r-o-b-i-n? 

Mr. Lautner. Joe Starobin, yes. I knew Joe Starobin in the late 
1940's as the foreign editor of the Daily Worlver. I met liim at paity 
meetings, party gatherings. He was a party member at the time I 
left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what he is doing now ? 

Mr. Lautner. According to my understanding, he left the Com- 
munist Party. He is with a so-called iSocialist jrroup at the present 
time writing for their publications, lamenting about some of the mis- 
takes that he found in the Communist Party, and that is his status 
from what I can determine. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Margaret 
Cowl? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes, Margaret Krumbein. 

Mr. Arens. Krumbein was her married name. 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct. 



COMMUNIST PROPAG-\NDA IN THE UNITED STATES 285 

Mr. Arexs. How do you spell Krumbein ? 

Mr. Lautner. K-r-u-m-b-e-i-n. She was a Communist. We were 
on the National Review Commission in the last couple of years before 
I left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. What is she doing now ? 

Mr. Lautner. To my understanding, she is a ref^istered agent for 
foreign publications, particularly from the Soviet Union and other 
satellite countries. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Rose 
Baron ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. Rose Baron was one time associated with ILD 
work and then later on worked in the bookstore downstairs at 50 East 
13th Street. That is the party building. She was a party member. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Sol 
Auerbach, A-u-e-r-b-a-c-h ? 

Mr. Lautner. That is James Allen. I knew him the first time, I 
think, for a short period of time while I w^as in West Virginia. For 
a short period of time he became the secretary of the National Control 
Connnission, taking it over from Charlie Dirba. 

Mr. Arens. What is he doing now ? 

Mr. Lautner. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did he have an alias ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes : James Allen, Jim Allen. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Jessica 
Smith ? 

Mr. Lautner. I knew Jessica Smith from the days when she was 
editor of Soviet Russia Today, and attended national committee 
meetings in the late 1930's and also conventions where she was present. 

Mr. Arens. How^ late did you know her as a Communist? 

Mr. Lautner. I had no reason to believe that she was not a Com.- 
munist at the time I left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. What is she doing today ? 

Mr. Lautner. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of Boris 
Cohen? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. Boris Cohen was a member in section 18 in the 
early thirties where I was a section organizer. He was head of the 
Prompt Press. First they were in the party building at 35 East 12th 
Street. Later on they moved out to 4th Avenue near 12th or 13th 
Street. I knew him as a party member. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what he is doing now? 

Mr. Lautner. I suppose he is still head of Prompt Press. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist while you were a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party a person by the name of Joseph Felshin, 
F-e-1-s-h-i-n ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes, Joe Fields, F-i-e-1-d-s. 

Mr. Arens. That is an alias for Joseph Felshin? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. He joined the Communist Party, I think, in 
1933 at 103d Street and Columbus Avenue at one of mv meetings. He 



286 coMMTJisriST propaganda in the united states 

was a seaman before that. He became later on a sort of a section 
functionary, leaflet producer. He had pretty good hands. Then he 
got a I'ob with Workers Library Publishers and later on it became New 
Century Publishers and he became in charge of publications there. 
This publishing group published The Communist and later on Politi- 
cal Affairs, the official theoretical organs of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you during the course of your membership in the 
Communist Party know as a Communist a person by the name of 
Milton Howard? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. Milton Howard was in the period of 1940-41 
the editor of the Sunday or weekend Worker. I attended many Com- 
munist meetings with him. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, we have interrogated you with reference 
to a number of items pertaining principally to the Communist press 
in the New York area. Are there any other items of information 
which we may not have specifically interrogated you about that you 
would like to comment on before you conclude your testimony ? 

Mr. Lautner. I would like to say this. 

]Mr. Scherer. Before we get to that phase of questioning, may I 
ask you this question : Am I correct if I assume that all the people you 
have just identified as Communists were members of the Communist . 
Party at the time you left the Communist Party in 1950? 

Mr. Lautner. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know any other than the one person you 
mentioned who left the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lautner. Since 1950 ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. You mentioned one person as having left the 
Communist Party and now became editor of some socialist publication. 

Mr. Lautner. He became a writer there. That is Starobin. I 
have no reasons to believe that any other left the Communist Party. 

I would like to comment on this. Because of the apparent decline 
of the readership of the Daily Worker and the weekend Worker, there 
is an element of complacency in the minds of those, and expressed this 
way. They are shrinking, they are falling apart, they are losing their 
influence. They don't seem to realize the terrific impact and influence 
the nationality group Communist press has, and what a large segment 
of the population is touched by this press. They see that narrow 
Daily Worker readership or Worker readership as the influence that 
the Communist Party can exert through such publication. I think it 
is important to consider that while even the nationality group press 
lost a lot of readership, still their influence in the basic industries 
today, particularly in steel, in auto, and in other industries, is formid- 
able and more attention should be paid to this aspect of the work of 
the committee in ferreting out Communist influence. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you very much. 

That, Mr. Chairman, would conclude the staff' interrogation of the 
witness. 

Mr. Scherer. Did I understand you to say that the nationality 
press which is dominated by the Communist Party has also lost its 
influence ? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 287 

Mr. Lautner. It has lost a lot of influence. Some daily papers 
become weekly papers. The numerical stren^h of the readership is 
downward. But still it is a formidable Communist influence that has 
to be recognized. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, there is a fallacy, is there not, in under- 
taking to appraise the strength or menace of the Communist con- 
spiracy on the basis of its numerical strength ? 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct, too. 

Mr. Arens. The party itself wants its numerical strength to be re- 
duced so that it can be more eilective. 

Mr. Lautner. That is the tendency today, to have that kind of a 
party. More streamlined and more adaptable to the present 
situation. 

Mr. Arens. And the strength of the party is 

Mr. Lautner. Not reflected in its numerical strength. 

Mr. Arens. In the numbers at all, is that correct ? 

Mr. Lautner. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. You are familiar with the testimony of Mr. Fishman, 
are you not? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. I was sitting here and listening to it. 

Mr. Scherer. Ai-e you familiar with other testimony the commit- 
tee has taken in various areas of the country concerning the Com- 
munist propaganda coming through this country ? 

Mr. Lautner. I read that. 

Mr. Scherer. Could that propaganda be supplanting the foreign 
language Communist press ? Could the readership of that be increas- 
ing ? Would that be a reason for the decline in the numerical circula- 
tion of the foreign language Communist papers ? 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. There are a number of reasons for the decline 
of readership of all Communist press printed here. For one good 
reason, the blunders and the vicious handling of the Soviet Union of 
various cardinal issues under Stalin's leadership, and recently, events 
that took place in Poland and in Hungary and the suppressing role 
that the Red Army played, particularly in Hungary, where a popular 
revolt and resentment against the violations of Socialist legality — to 
use a Communist jargon — people just revolted against it. The Red 
army just ruthlessly, negating completely its own ideological prin- 
ciples, the self-determination of small nations and national groups, 
broke up that Hungarian resentment and saddled the Hungarian 
people with the Red army and Hungarian leadership. These are the 
facts that turn the people away from reading the Communist press, 

Mr. Scherer. How do you account for the apparent increase in the 
Communist foreign propaganda coming through the mails into this 
country ? 

Mr. Lautner. "V^Hiat they are losing in the domestic publications, 
they try to make up in publications sent from foreign countries. 

Mr. Scherer. Wouldn't your reasoning that you have just given 
us apply to that type of propaganda ? 

Mr. Lautner. I listened to Mr. Fishman. He says that most of 
this propaganda that emanates from the other side is unsolicited. 
They are bombarding. 



288 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, the Communist Party had a convention 
here in this cit}' a couple of weeks or so ago in which among other 
things they announced to the world that they were disassociated from 
Moscow, and that henceforth they no longer would advocate force and 
violence as a means of obtaining their objectives, and now they are just 
going to pursue peaceful democratic processes. Could you on the basis 
of your background and experience in the Communist Party give us 
your reaction to that? 

Mr. Lautxer. First of all, if this Communist Party in this conven- 
tion would have repudiated Leninism, then there would be more 
validity to what they say they stand for. But since they still adhere 
to Leninism, since tliey still adhere to proletarian internationalism, 
since they didn't dare to criticize the Soviet Ked army for its atroci- 
ties and intervention in the Hungarian affairs, all these statements 
have only one reason to be made — to crawl out from under the Smith 
Act, to crawl out from under the Subversive Activities Control Board 
case, to crawl out from the Taft-Hartley Act, and similar laws and 
legislation. I read some of these statements. These statements are 
very carefully written in a very explicit legal language. Someone's 
fine legal hand is there on every document. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any doubt in your mind whatsoever but that 
the Communist Party today is a conspiratorial a}>paratus directed 
from Moscow? 

Mr. Lautner. None whatever. I spoke about that once before. It 
is explicitly set forth in the International Affairs emanating out of 
Moscow, a theoretical magazine which says each Communist Party in 
each country must play a special role, based on local conditions, local 
situations, but still they all belong to that 30 million army of Commu- 
nists throughout the world that act as one, that is monolithic, and all 
their activities are channeled in one direction, getting guidance and 
leadership from that same source. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, another subcommittee of the Committee 
on Un-American Activities has over the course of the last several 
months been accumulating information and statements from the best 
minds we can contact all over the world on the world Communist con- 
spiracy. Without exception those who are competent within each of 
the many, many facets of the conspiratorial apparatus worldwide tell 
us that the United States and the west are losing the cold war and 
losing it at an alarming rate to the international Communist con- 
spiracy. Wliat is your appraisal on the basis of your intimate knowl- 
edge of the operation in the United States and your deep concern over 
the operation worldwide? 

Mr. Lautner. I think one of the reasons for the extreme compla- 
cency, which is an attitude in this country 

Mr. Arens. It is part of the Communist technique to make Mr. and 
Mrs. America at the crossroads feel that there really is no menace. 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct. The Nation is complacent on this 
issue. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that would con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IX THE UNITED STATES 289 

Mr. ScHERER. ]\Ir. Lantner, the committee -wishes to thank you for 
your fine testimon}', and the cooperation you have given the commit- 
tee, and it is the feeling, I am sure, of the committee that you have 
rendered a vahuible contribution to your Government. You are 
excused. 

Mr. Lautner. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Scherer. The committee will recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow 
morning. 

(Thereupon at 2:55 p. m., Tuesday, March 12, the committee was 
recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m.. Wednesday, March 13, 1957. Com- 
mittee member present : Kepresentative Scherer.) 



90121 — 57 — pt. 5 4 



INVESTIGATION OF C0M3IUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE 
UNITED STATES— PART 5 

(New York City Area) 



WEDNESDAY, MARCH 13, 1957 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee of Un-American Activities, 

New York, N. Y. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-Ameiican Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, in room 518, United States Courthouse, Foley 
Square, New York, N. Y., at 10 a. m., Hon. Morgan M. Moulder 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder, 
of Missouri, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Statf members present : Richard Arens, director, W. Jackson Jones 
and Frank Bonora, investigatoi'S. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. John Gates, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Gates. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN GATES, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, HARRY 

SACHER 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Gates. My name is John Gates. I live at 1236 Pacific Street 
in Brooklyn. I am a newspaper editor. 

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing here today in response to a subi>ena 
which ^yas served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities? 

Mr. Gates. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mr. Gates. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you please identify yourself? 

Mr. Sacher. Harry Sacher, 342 Madison Avenue, New York 17. 

Mr. Arens. What newspaper do you edit, Mr. Gates ? 

Mr. Gates. I consider that question an invasion of the freedom of 
the press, and I do not intend to answer any such questions. 

291 



292 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. SciiERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question, and 
in making that direction I wish to say to you that it is given to you 
in order to warn you of possible dangers of your being in contempt 
of Congress. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. It is not with a threat, but for the purpose of advising 
you that there is the possibility that in your refusing to answer that 
question you might be guilty of contempt. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that question first of all because 
it is a violation of the first amendment, and I do so on those grounds 
in the first place. 

Furthermore, because of what I know of this committee, it does not 
recognize the first amendment to the Constitution. I therefore will 
decline to be a witness against myself and invoke also the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. ScHERER. We recognize the first amendment, but we do not 
recognize it as a ground for refusing to answer the question which 
counsel has propounded to you. 

Mr. Arexs. Where are you employed ? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that question for the same reason I 
just gave. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, this record reflect 
an order and direction to the witness to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer, and we direct you 
not. in the spirit of trying to coerce you to answer questions, but to 
advise you of your rights and to inform you that we are insisting upon 
an answer. 

Mr. Gates. Everyone knows where I am employed, especially these 
days. One has only to pick up any newspaper and tune in on any 
TV broadcast or radio program, and he knows where I am employed. 
But I will not tell this connnittee where I am employed for the reasons 
tliat I have given, based on my rights under the first amendment and 
fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Moulder. Again we direct you to answer. We do not take that 
as an answer to the question. 

Mr. Sciierer. I think in view of his answer that anyone who 
picks up the paper or listens to the radio knows where he is employed, 
he waives an^^ privilege he might have of invoking the fifth amend- 
ment. Therefore, I ask that you direct him to answer the question 
again. 

Mr. Sacher. May I note a dissent of that legal opinion of the Con- 
gressman, Mr. Chairman, and suggest that there is no point to these 
endless directions. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Sacher, I respectfully invite your attention to tlie 
rules of the committee, which provide : 

The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing anil while the 
witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal 
rights. Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the 
committee, but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client. 

Mr. Moulder.. The witness is directed to answer the question. 



COMMimiST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 293 

]Mi\ Gatp:s. I decline to answer on the o;rounds I have ah-eady stated 
under my rights under the first and fifth amendments of the Consti- 
tution of the United States. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Gates, in view of your observation that your em- 
ployment could be ascertained by certain publications, we lay before 
vou now a photostatic copy of the Communist Daily Worker of 
Wednesday, December 28, 1955, and invite your attention specifically 
to a photograph designated "Gates" and an article, Gates To Eesume 
Post Tuesday: 

John Gates will resume his duties as editor in chief of the Daily Worker^ 
And so forth. Kindly look at that document and tell the committee 
whether your employment is accurately described as editor of the 
Communist Daily Worker. 

Mr. Gates. Again I will decline to answer on the same grounds I 
have given. 

(Document marked "Gates Exhibit Xo. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. You are not ashamed of your employment, are you, 
Mr. Gates, as editor of the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Scherer. Do the same reasons include the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Gates. They do. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you now a member of an organization dedicated 
to the overthrow of the Government of the United States by force 
and violence ? 

Mr. Gates. I am not. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Gates. I will decline to answer all questions having to do with 
the Communist Party. I do not believe it is any business of this 
committee or any other committee of the Congress to inquire into my 
political views or beliefs. I believe I am protected in that by the 
first amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arex^s. Tell us why it is that you gave such a quick response to 
the question as to whether or not you are now a member of an organi- 
zation dedicated to the overthrow of the Government of the United 
States by force and violence. What distinction do you make there? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that on the grounds that I have 
given. 

Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party presently 

Mr. ]SIoulder. ]May I intervene and ask this question ? Do you have 
any knowledge or information concerning any other person who 
believes in the overthrow of our present form of government by force 
and violence? 

Mr. Gates. I know of no persons who are dedicated to that objective. 

Mr. Arex^s. I would like to read you now a little excerpt from the 
Coimnunist Manifesto : 

The Communists disdain to conceal their views 

Mr. Sacher. Would you identify the document by year? 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that counsel be 
admonished again that his sole and exclusive prerogative in this 
hearing is to advise his witness pursuant to the rules of this committee. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr, Sacher, that is the rule, as counsel stated. 



294 COMMUNIST propaganda in the united states 

Mr. Sacher. I know that. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly adhere to the rules. 

I invite your attention to the Communist Manifesto : 

The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare 
that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing 
social conditions. 

Are you conversant with that language which I have just read to 
you ? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mr. Gates. On the grounds of the first and fifth amendments to 
the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that, if you would truthfully answer the 
question as to whether or not you are conversant with that language, 
you would be supplying information which might be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Gates. From my experience with this committee, I have found 
that this committee will use any means to trap people into convictions 
and jail sentences on frameup charges. I will not cooperate with this 
committee in any such purpose. 

Mr. Moulder. You have made that statement 

Mr. Gates. I have not finished my answer. I have never concealed 
my views. On the contrary, I seek every opportunity to put forward 
my views to the American public. 

Mr. Arens. Why don't you do it now ? 

Mr. Gates. At this very moment, I am being deprived in this city 
of the right of presenting my views to the students of this city. It 
is not my fault that this is so. It is the fault of others. 

Mr. Arens. Then why don't you come forth now and tell us your 
views as to whether or not the Communist Party advocates the over- 
throw of the Government of the United States by force and violence ? 

Mr. Gates. I have done so on my other occasions. I will do so again 
on many other occasions. I will not do so before this committee for 
the reasons I have stated. 

Mr. Arens. You realize, of course, you are now under oath ; do you 
not? 

Mr. Gates. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer your question con- 
cerning his views. He said he would do it somewhere else, but not 
before the committee. You are so directed. 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any questions as to my political views 
because — for the reasons I have alreadj'' stated. 

Mr. Moulder. You referred to entrapment by this committee. Can 
you give a specific case where this committee has entrapped any person 
appearing as a witness ? 

Mr. Gates. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Wlio ? 

Mr. Gates. Eugene Dennis. 

Mr. Moulder. Who else ? 

Mr. Gates. Many others. If the committee will allow me to, I will 
prepare a list today and bring it in to the committee tomoiTOw. 

Mr. Scherer. Eugene Dennis was convicted and sentenced in the 
Federal court, was he not, for advocating the overthrow of this 
Government by force and violence ? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 295 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any such question. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is the Eugene Dennis to which 3'ou are refer- 
ring ; isn't it ? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. M0UI.DER. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. ScHERER. He certainly waived his right. 

Mr. Gates. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Were you framed ? 

Mr. Gates. I have been on occasion. 

Mr. Arens. Were you framed when you were convicted under the 
Smith Act? 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. Let the record show that the witness is laughmg. 

Mr. Gates. My opinions are quite well known on that score, but I 
will decline to answer that question to this committee for the reasons 
stated. 

Mr. Arens. Now I would like to read you a couple of quotations 
from a man by the name of Nikolai Lenin, in view of your desire to 
express your views, to see whether or not your position coincides with 
those of Nikolai Lenin. The fii-st quotation is this : 

The existence of the Soviet Republic side by side with imperialist states for a 
long time is unthinkable. One or the other must triumph in the end. And before 
that end supervenes, a series of frightful collisions between the Soviet Republic 
and the bourgeois states will be inevitable. 

Continuing from Lenin : 

We must be able to withstand all this, to agree to all and every sacrifice, and 
even — if need be — to resort to various stratagems, artifices, illegal methods, to 
envasions and subterfuges. 

In view of your desire to express your views to schools and colleges 
of this country, to people of this community, while you are under oath 
tell this committee whether or not you subscribe to these statements 
by Nikolai Lenin. 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any questions as to my political views 
before this committee. I will be o;lad to debate you at any time outside 
of this committee room before anjHbody of the American public. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you truthfully 
answered this last principal question, you would be supplying infor- 
mation which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 
Let us say a perjury action ? 

Mr. Gates. As I said before, the record of this committee convinces 
me that such is the purpose of this committee. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not 
he honestly apprehends, if he answered the last preceding principal 
question, he would be supplying information that could be used against 
him in a criminal proceeding. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to be a witness against myself on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, the courts say you must answer the last ques- 
tion of counsel "Yes" or "No." You cannot invoke the fifth amend- 



296 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

ment to the question whether you honestly believe that to answer the 
question might tend to incriminate you. The courts have clearly said 
that you cannot invoke the fifth amendment on that. 

Mr. Sacher. Will you give me a moment to tell my client that the 
Congressman is wrong? 

]Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

( The witness consulted with his counsel :) 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that on the grounds that it is a 
violation of the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Scherer, You had some bad legal advice. 

Mr. Gates. Perhaps. 

Mr. Sacher. May I rise on a point of personal privilege ? 

Mr. Abens, You are apprised that your sole prerogative as counsel 
to this witness is to advise this witness as to his constitutional rights. 

Mr. Sacher. Mr. Chairman, may I ask on your ruling as to whether 
I must sit like a bump on a log here and have my professional compe- 
tency assailed by a member of this committee ? 

Mr. Arens. Counsel is entitled to his own characterization of his 
own status. Counsel's sole and exclusive prerogative here is to advise 
his client. 

Now, Mr, Gates, I should like to read you another quotation by a 
man by the name of William Z. Foster. You know Mr. Foster ; don't 
you? 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any questions as to names of people, 
especially because this committee has left behind it a trail of black- 
listed workers, workers fired from their jobs, liomes broken up, and 
so on. I will not contribute to that sort of thing. 

Mr. Arens. You are not asliamed of your association with William 
Z. Foster, are you? 

Mr. Gates. I am not ashamed of anything in mj' life. 

Mr. Arens. Then tell us. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that question or give you any list 
of names. 

Mr. Arens. Let us read this little quotation. William Z. Foster : 

When a Communist heads the Government of the United States — and that 
day will come just as surely as the sun rises — the government will not be a 
capitalist government but a Soviet government, and behind this government 
will stand the Red army to enforce the dictatorship of the proletariat. 

Do you subscribe to that position by William Z. Foster ? 

Mr, Gates, I will decline to answer any questions as to my political 
views before this committee, 

Mr, Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr, Moulder, The witness is ordered and directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Gates. I will give my views on that to the American ])eople 
and to the press. I will not give it to this coimuittee on the grounds 
that I have stated it is a violation of my rights under the first amend- 
ment and fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. The press is represented here, ^"\n[iile you are under 
oath and while you are subject to the pains and penalties of perjury, 
turn around and tell the press whether you repudiate or subscribe to 
these doctrines which I have just read to you by the leaders of the 
Communist conspiracy. 



COROIUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 297 

yir. Gates. I intend to do so at the proper time and under the prop- 
er circumstance, which this is not. 

Mr. Akens. And the proper time and circumstance include a con- 
dition that you not be under oath and subject to the pains and pen- 
alties of perjur3\ 

Mr. Gates. I will be glad to speak under oath to the press but not 
this committee. 

Mr. Arexs. Turn around right now and tell the press whether or 
not you subscribe or repudiate these positions which I have just pre- 
sented to you from the leaders of the Communist conspiracy. 

Mr. Gates. I will do so when I see fit. I will not do so under your 
direction. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Committee members present at taking of recess: Eepresentatives 
Moulder and Scherer.) 

(Short recess.) 

(Committee members present at time of reconvening: Represen- 
tatives Moulder and Scherer.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. Proceed with the 
interrogation of the witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. ]\Ir. Gates, I previously asked you if you were a mem- 
ber of the Commmiist Party and you declined to answer the question 
and invoked the provisions of the fifth amendment of the Constitu- 
tion of the United States. I ask 3- ou now a little difi'erent question : 
Are you a Commmiist^ 

JVIr. Gates. My reply to that is the same. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee truthfully while you are under oath whether or not you are a 
Communist, you would be supplying information that might be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding? 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Gates. I am being placed in a very ironical position here. 
At this very moment I am seeking every means to present my views 
to the people of this city and to the country and I am being deprived 
of that riglit. 

Mr. Arens. You are a little bashful before this committee for some 
reason or other. Tell this committee whether or not you are a Com- 
munist. 

jNIr. Gates. You want to give me the right to speak when you com- 
pel me to speak and subpena me to speak. You have certain ulterior 
motives in doing that, in my opinion. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Gates. I do not answer that question for the reasons I have 
given. 

Mr. Moulder. To what reasons do you refer now, Mr. Gates, when 
you say "the reasons I have given" ? 

]Mr. Gates. The entire Bill of Rights to the American Consti- 
tution, including the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of an organization dedi- 
cated to the destruction of the Bill of Rights ? 

JSlr. Gates. I have never been. 

]Mr. Arens. You were convicted under the Smith Act to conspire 
to overthrow the Government of the United States by force and ^do- 
lence, weren't you i 



298 COJMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. I suggest that the witness be directed to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer on the grounds it is a violation of my 
rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I want to give you an opportunity to express your 
views to the world while you are under oath. I have here a copy of 
Our Times in which an article appears by John Gates, Stalin's Policy 
for World Peace. This is back in January 1950 in which Comrade 
Stalin is lauded as one of the great saviors of humanity, one to whom 
the world owes an eternal debt of gratitude. 

Look at that article, if you would, please, Mr. Gates, and tell us 
while you are under oath whether that reflects your position with 
reference to Comrade Stalin? 

Mr. Gates. "Wliere did you say this article appeared ? 

Mr. Arens. It is right in your hand. It is at the bottom of the 
page there. Our Times, 1950. 

Mr. Gates. "Wliat is that publication? 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall that publication? 

Mr. Gates. "Our Times"? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Gates. I have never heard of such a publication. 

Mr. Arens. Look at the article and see if you recollect that you 
prepared that article. 

Mr. Gates. I will decline to answer any questions as to my views 
or writings. My writings speak for themselves. You can read them 
in the Daily Worker on sale at newsstands for 10 cents a copy. 

(Document marked "Gates Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Tell us how we can go about reading your articles in 
the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Gates. By subscribing to the Daily Worker at 50 East 13th 
Street. 

Mr. Arens. How did you know that your articles appeared in the 
Daily Worker? 

Mr. Gates. I think people can find that out by reading the news- 
paper themselves. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask you to direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer it because I consider that an invasion 
of freedom of the press. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer as requested by 
Congressman Scherer. 

Mr. Gates. I will decline to answer it on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment as well. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know the Daily Worker is located at the 
place which you designated in the record ? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed. 

Mr. Scherer. He has waived any rights he has to refuse. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee insists that the witness answer the 
question. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 299 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer for the grounds stated. 

Mr. Arens. Have you in the recent past changed your position with 
reference to this great benefactor of humanity to whom all the world 
owes a great debt, Comrade Stalin, or is your position the same as 
expressed here in this laudatory article? 

Mr. Gates. I will tell my views on this and other matters to anybody 
which I consider accredited and is really interested in ascertaining 
views. I do not believe this committee has such a motive. 

Mr. ScHERER. Is that the reason you now are refusing to answer, for 
the reasons you have given ? 

Mr. Gates. That is one of the reasons I refuse to answer this ques- 
tion. I also refuse to answer it on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. We would like to lay before you, please, Mr. Gates, 
copies of statements acquired by the post office from the Daily Worker 
indicating the publishers of the Daily Worker are the Publishers New 
Press, Inc., in which the editor is indicated as John Gates, and the 
managing editor, Alan Max. Kindly look at these documents which 
are photostatic reproductions of the originals in the custody of the 
Post Office Department, and tell this committee while you are under 
oath whether or not that accurately designates the officials of the Daily 
Worker and the firm that publishes the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that before this committee on the 
grounds that I have stated. 

(Documents marked "Gates Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee truthfully whether or not the document which was filed with 
the Post Office Department, sworn to, and is presently an official rec- 
ord of this Government, accurately reflects the fact you would be sup- 
plying information which could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered to 
answer the question. 

]\Ir. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Gates. I invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Moulder. For your own protection, you ought to answer the 
question "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Gates. For my own protection I invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. INIouLDER. Are you going to offer those docimients which you 
have been showing the witness ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your mentioning 
that. I respectfully request that there be a general order in this rec- 
ord that all documents which are displayed be appropriately marked 
and incorporated by reference in the record. It will save time. 

Mr. JSIoulder. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you, Mr. Gates, a photostatic reproduction 
of a certificate of incorporation, filed with the clerk of the supreme 
court in New York County, of Publishers New Press, Inc., in which 
are set forth the directors of the Publishers New Press, Inc., and other 
information pertaining to that organization. Kindly look at that 
document and tell us whether or not it accurately and truthfully re- 
flects the facts. 



300 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer that. 

(Docnment marked "Gates Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you Imow a man by the name of John Lautner? 

Mr. Gates. I know him to be a stool pigeon and informer. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask you what is a stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Gates. The briefest definition I can think of for a stool pigeon 
or an informer is a paid liar. 

Mr. SciiERER. Just a minute. Mr. Gates, this man to whom you 
refer, namely, Mr. Lautner, as a paid liar, identified you as a member 
of the Communist Party. Was he lying when he identified you as a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gates. I will decline to answer that. 

Mr. ScHEREK. You sit here and call this man a paid liar and then 
you refuse to say whether he lied to this committee under oath. 

Mr. Gates. I will decline to answer that question to this committee 
for the reasons that I have stated. I will back my assertions under 
other circumstances. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gates, we want to lay before you still another 
document. It is the Daily Worker of June (18), 1951, in which 
a man by the name of Jolni Gates takes a very vigorous position 
against Browderism, Titoism, and Trotskyism. According to the 
article, all good comrades must not engage in such a thing as Brow- 
derism, which w^ould be defection from the Kremlin, or Titoism, 
which is independent from the Kremlin, or Trotskyism, which would 
be independent from the Kremlin. John Gates, in this article, is 
very vigorous in condemning those people who w^ould participate in 
Browderism, Titoism, or Trotskyism. That was back in 1951. First 
of all, look at that article and tell us wdiether or not it is an article 
which you authored ? 

Mr. Gates. I will decline to answer any questions before this com- 
mittee having to do with my political views, opinions, writings, et 
cetera. 

Mr. Arens. Have you changed your position wdth reference to con- 
demning people who want to be disassociated from the Kremlin ? 

Mr. Gates. I Avill decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

(Document marked "Gates Exhibit No. 5," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in the recent convention of the 
Communists held here in New York City ? 

Mr. Gates. I will answer no such questions along those lines. 

Mr. Arens. Why i You would not be ashamed of participating in 
a convention for the uplift of humanity, would you, and goodness and 
peace and light and brotherhood ? 

Mr. Gates. Far from being ashamed, I am seeking every opportu- 
nity to tell my views about the convention to the country. 

Mr. Arens. What convention ? 

Mr. Gates. The National Convention of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know anything about it ? 

Mr. Gates. I wnll not tell anything to this committee. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered to answer the question. 



cojvemunist propaganda in the united states 301 

Mr. Gates. It is ridiculous, because everybody knows ho^Y I know 
something about it. I will decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Akens. How do you know ? 

Mr. Gates. Suppose you figure it out youi-self . 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered and directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Gates. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Moi-LDER. How are you prohibited from expressing your views 
to your country ? 

Mr. Gates. I have been invited by the students of two city colleges 
in the city of New York to speak before them. The college presidents 
of those colleges have deprived me of the right to speak to those stu- 
dents. This is during the week which is supposedly dedicated to 
academic freedom. 

Mr. ]\1oulder. Do you know the students who invited you ? 

Mr. Gates. No; I do not. 

Mr. Ajrens. Will you speak up freely at the moment and tell us 
whether or not you were one of the leaders in the Communist Party 
convention? Do that while under oath and subject to the pains and 
penalties of perjury. 

]Mr, Gates. That is for the public to decide whether or not I am 
a leader of the Communist convention. I will not answer this question 
to this committee. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. 

;Mr. Moulder. The witness is so ordered and directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee now, while you are under oath and subject to the pains and 
penalties of perjury, whether or not you were a leader in the recent 
Communist Party convention in New York City, you would be sup- 
plying information which might be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

Mr. Gates. I repeat, I refuse to answer these questions because I 
consider them a violation of my rights under the first amendment and 
fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arexs. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that tlie witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The M'itness is so ordered and directed to answer tlie 
question referred to by counsel. 

Mr. Gates. I decline under the grounds stated. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at this party convention instigate, foster, de- 
velop any resolutions condemning the armed intervention by the forces 
of the Kremlin in Hungary ? 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any questions before this committee 
pertaining to the Communist Party or activities of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Moulder. May I intervene to say this: You have been com- 
plaining about not having an opportunity to express your views to the 
country. It seems to me that we are giving you an opportunity to 



302 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

express yourself, and when you have that opportunity you avail your- 
self of the privileges and benefits and protection of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Gates. The first amendment gives me the right to pick places of 
my own choosing to state my views to the country. The first amend- 
ment does not compel me to come before this committee and express 
my views. In fact, I think that is a violation of the first amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. The truth is 

Mr. Gates. Furthermore, the fifth amendment to the Constitution 
backs up the first amendment by giving the right to people to be silent 
when necessary or when they so choose. 

Mr. Scherer. The real problem is that if you answered these ques- 
tions, you would have to tell the truth because you are under oath. 
Wlien you are speaking before a group of students, you would not 
be under oath, would you? You would not hesitate to lie before a 
group of students. Here you are under oath and that is the reason you 
are refusing to answer these questions. 

Mr. Gates. I have the habit of telling the tnith whether I am under 
oath or not under oath. 

Mr. Abens. I am glad you made that statement, because I want to 
read you again here this little reference from Nikolai Lenin in which 
Lenin says : 

We must be able to withstand all tMs, to agree to all and every sacrifice, and 
even — if need be — to resort to various stratagems, artifices, illegal methods, to 
evasions and surterfuges. 

Do you belong to an organization that subscribes to that doctrine 
enunciated by Nikolai Lenin? 

Mr. Gates. I belong to no organization that subscribes to any such 
doctrine. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to the Communist Party wliich sub- 
scribes to that doctrine ? 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any questions pertaining to the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. IMouLDER. Do you know whether or not the Communist Party 
does subscribe to the doctrine referred to by the counsel ? 

Mr. Gates. I will not answer any questions specifically pertaining 
to the Communist Party of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. J. Edgar Hoover, who is Chief of the FBI, issued a 
statement only yesterday to the effect that the masquerade put on, 
and the facade developed by, the Communist Party in its convention 
was only a ruse and a fraud and a trick. Was J. Edgar Hoover 
mistaken or was he correct in his interpretation of what actually 
transpired at this national convention of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Gates. In my opinion, the views of J. Edgar Hoover on this 
subject are entirely false. 

Mr. Arens. You take issue with them; is that correct? 

Mr. Gates. I certainly do. I think if one reads the proceedings of 
the national convention of the Communist Party they will speak for 
tliemselves. 

Mr. Arens. "V^Hiat makes you conclude that the views of J. Edgar 
Hoover on this subject are false? 

Mr. Gates. I will refuse to answer that because it invades my rights 
under the first amendment to the Constitution and the fifth amend- 
ment. 



COMIVIUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 303 

Mr. Arens. He has opened the door. He has said Toluntarily that 
the views of J. Ed^ar Hoover on this matter are false. Having 
opened that door, he has waived any privileges he may have had under 
the fifth amendment. Therefore, I respectfully suggest that the 
witness be ordered and directed to answer the question as to why he 
has concluded that the views of J. Edgar Hoover on this issue are 
false. 

Mr. Moulder. Counsel is correct, and the witness is so directed. 

Mr. Gaitss. I will refuse to answer that question on the gromids of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. j\Ir. Chairman, may 1 interrupt? 

]Mr. Moulder. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, in this morning's New York Herald Tri- 
bune, Wednesday, March 13, there is an excellent account of J. Edgar 
Hoover's position and statement with reference to the recent Com- 
mmiist convention held here in New York. While it is somewhat 
lengthy, I am going to read part of it, and tlien I am going to ask 
you whether or not anything that is said or reported in this morn- 
ing's New York Herald Tribune is incorrect. This is an article by 
James E. Warner. It starts on the first page of this morning's issue. 

FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover declared today that, despite all propaganda 
assertions to the contrary, the Communist Party in the United States still is 
directed by Moscow as a part of the worldwide conspiracy having for one of its 
aims the overthrow of the United States Government. 

At the request of Senator James O. Eastland, Democrat, Mississippi, chairman 
of the Senate Internal Security Sul)committee, Mr. Hoover submitted a 20-page 
report on the recent 16th Communist National Convention in New York. 

The non-Communist press was not admitted to convention proceedings, 
"slanted" reports of which were later released, Mr. Hoover said. From the vast 
amount of detail presented by him as to what went on in the convention, it was 
apparent that the FBI had agents or other information sources at all the conven- 
tion sessions. 

REPORT IS QUOTED 

He opened his report with the statement that : 

"The Conmiunist Party before and after its 1957 convention is part and 
parcel of the worldwide Communist conspiracy. It is still responsive to the 
will of Moscow ; still works for the destruction of the American way of life and 
still is dedicated to building of a Soviet United States patterned after the basic 
concepts of Marxism-Leninism. Changes in the party's constitution, organi- 
zation, and announced public objectives are designed to bring to an end a period 
of isolation from the American public caused by disclosures of their tactics and 
objectives. Should it succeed in further hoodwinking certain people, as it has 
with some success since the convention, then it will emerge stronger than it ever 
was and more dangerous to the peace and security of the United States." 

HYPOCBIST CHARGED 

Resolutions to either uphold or condemn Soviet aggression in Hungary and to 
discuss with Russian Communist leaders anti-Semitism within Russia, including 
"liquidation of the Yiddish writers and Jewish communal and political leaders 
and the snuffing out of organized Jewish cultural life * * *" were shelved by 
the convention through reference to the party's incoming national committee, 
Mr. Hoover reported. 

"High Communist Party leaders are agreed," he said, "that the Soviet han- 
dling of the Hungarian situation and anti-Semitism in Russia has caused a loss 
in party membership and that these issues will have to be met in a satisfactory 
manner if the party is to gain any real mass support. 

"The failure of the convention to take a stand on the Soviet rape of Hungary 
and anti-Semitism in Russia proves the hypocrisy of the American Coumiunists' 
alleged declaration of independence and indicates that the American Commu- 



304 COMMUNIST PROPAG.^NDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

nists in fact have not broken with the Soviet Union. Incidentally, these are 
facts which the party's spokesman, Mr. Simon W. Gerson, did not report to the 
daily press." 

Mr. Hoover referred to Mr. Gerson's activities elsewhere in his report as 
follows: 

"The 1957 convention was cloaked with secrecy despite party claims that it 
was '* * * being covered by the largest battery of newspapermen in the party's 
history.' Newsmen were not admitted to witness the convention proceedings, but 
were briefed by the party's spokesman, Simon W. Gerson, who has been a member 
of the party since 1932. Gerson very adroitly slanted the accounts of the conven- 
tion to make the Communist Party take on its best possible apppearance to the 
public." 

ESTIMATE SUMMARIZED 

At another point, Mr. Hoover declared : 

"The 1957 convention was designed to hoodwink the public with a 'new look.' 
Its program is designed to enable them to develop a militant assault to accomplish 
their 'historic mission' of wrecking and infiltrating this Nation." 

The FBI Director summarized his estimate of the 1957 convention's objective 
as follows : 

"1. To gain greater mass acceptance. Ever since 1950, the party has been 
largely underground. Many of its functionaries were engaged in making 
clandestine contacts, operating as couriers, or in hiding. As a result, above- 
ground activity sulfered. The party now hopes to send its members out among 
the non-Communist masses and to gain for them, through false representations 
of being 'loyal' and 'democratic,' a sympathetic hearing. 

"2. To thwart Government prosecution. Convictions under the Smith Act and 
related statutes have dealt the party severe blows. The party, through its alleged 
'new look,' is hoping to convince the Government, the courts, and juries that it is 
not a danger. It hopes that these prosecutions will be discontinued and that con- 
victed leaders presently in jail will be released. 

NEW CONTACTS SOUGHT 

"3. To lay a foundation for possible unity with other leftwing groups. The 
Communists desperately hope to "make contact' with Socialists, members of the 
non-Communist L^ft, liberals, etc., in an effort to secure their support for Com- 
munist projects. Such poliices were not possible in the recent years of party 
underground activity. This is merely an echo of the aims of the international 
Commimist movement. * * *." 

Is anything I read from this morning's New York Herald Tribune, 
Wednesday, March 13, incorrect? 

Mr. Gates. What yon read only proves that eT. Edgar Hoover is the 
head of a political police in the United States, something that is con- 
trary to American tradition and principle. 

Mr. Sc-HERER. I ask, Mr. Chairman, that yon direct the witness to 
answer tlie question. 

Mr. Moulder. Your answer is not responsive and you are directed to 
answer. 

Mr. Gates. I will refuse to answer any questions having to do with 
the Communist Party on the grounds that it is an invasion of my rights 
under the first amendment, because it inquires into my political views 
and beliefs, and on the grounds of the fifth amendment as well, 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Gates. I decline to answer for the reasons I have just stated. 

(Document marked "Gates Exhibit No. 6," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that would con- 
clude the stalf interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. ]\IouLDER. Are there any questions, Congressman Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. I liave no questions. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 305 

Mr. Moulder. I have no additional questions. The witness is ex- 
cused, and you may chiini your witness fees with Mr. Jones, who is 
acting as clerk of the committee. 

( Witness excused. ) 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, Mr. Chairman, if it please the com- 
mittee, will be Mr. Joseph Starobin. 

Mr. ]MouLDER. Mr. Starobin, will you hold up your right hand? 
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Starobin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH STAROBIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
OSMOND K. FKAENKEL 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Starobin. My name is Joseph Starobin, S-t-a-r-o-b-i-n. I 
reside at 51 Charles Street, New York 14. I am currently self- 
employed as a writer and free lance journalist. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Starobin, in response to 
a subpena served upon you by the House Committee on Un-Ajnericaii 
Activities? 

Mr. Starobin. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mr. Starobin. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself? 

Mr. Fraenkel, Osmond, O-s-m-o-n-d, Fraenkel, F-r-a-e-n-k-e-1, 120 
Broadway, New York. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been self-employed ? 

Mr. Starobin. I have been self-employed since the spring of 1954. 

Mr, Arens. And in what capacity are you self-employed? 

Mr. Starobin. As a writer and free lance journalist. 

Mr. Arens. For what publications do you write or have you written 
over the course of the last few years ? 

Mr. Starobin. I am not currently writing for any publications ex- 
cept upon occasional request, and I have over the past several years 
done free lance writing for several publications abroad. 

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us the names of some of these publica- 
tions, please? 

^Nlr. Starobin. Yes. One of the publications was the Canadian 
Tribune, a Canadian weekly. At times I have contributed to 
L'Humanite, a French publication in Paris, and to Lunita, an Italian 
jniblication in Rome. I understand that occasionally other publica- 
tions have picked up articles that I have published in the above- 
mentioned ])ublications. 

Mr. Arens. Please tell us the publications to which you have con- 
tributed in the course of the last few years in the United States. 

Mr. Starobin. I have written most recently an article for the 
American Socialist in their March 1957 issue. I have sent a com- 
munication to Political Affairs 

Mr. Arens. Can you identify that publication ? 

90121— 57— pt. 5 5 



306 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Starobin (continuing). Which I understand to be the organ of 
the Communist Party of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. And when did you send an article to that publication? 

Mr. Starobin. Some time in November, I should judge. Perhaps it 
was December. 

Mr. Moulder. Where is the paper published ? 

Mr. Starobin. In New York. I have contributed to Monthly Re- 
view, which calls itself an independent Socialist magazine. I have 
contributed to the Nation. I believe, at some point in 1954 or 1955, 
I revicAved a book for the Daily Worker. Perhaps it was the Sunday 
Worker. Unless I am mistaken, possibly there has been an article 
in a magazine called Mainstream. 

Mr. Arens. Would you identify that publication, sir ? 

Mr. Starobin. I understand it to be an independent review of cul- 
ture and politics. 

Mr. Arens. What publications have you been identified with, in 
addition to being in a status of contributing articles in the course of 
the last several years ? 

Mr. Starobin. I have not been identified with any publication since 
the beginning of 1954. 

Mr. Arens. I meant prior to that time, please, sir ? 

Mr. Starobin. What span of years is several years ? 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified with New Masses ? 

Mr. Starobin. Yes. I was identified Avith New Masses from 1939 
to 1942. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity? 

Mr. Starobin. As its foreign editor. 

Mr. Arens. Could you identify that publication ^ 

Mr. Starobin. '\\niy certainly. You mean identify it as of that 
period ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Starobin. Yes, certainly I could. 

Mr. Arens. Do so, please. 

Mr. Starobin. Do you have a copy of it ? 

Mr. Arens. I say could you identify or characterize the publication 
from the standpoint of control ? Was it a Communist publication ? 

Mr. Starobin. I would call it an independent radical publication. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other publication with which you have been 
officially identified ? 

Mr. Starobin, I was a reporter for the Daily Worker from 1942 
onwards. I became one of its editors and was a foreign editor until 
the beginning of 1954. 

Mr. Arens. Would you care to characterize that publication from 
the standpoint of control ? 

Mr. Starobin. It was controlled by debtors, as far as I am con- 
cerned. 

Mr. Arens. Was it controlled by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Starobin. There has been a lot of difference of opinion and 
different testimony on that subject. 

Mr. Arens. What is your judgment as to the control of the Daily 
Worker ? 

Mr. Starobin. I should say, without trying to comment on the 
validity of the testimony one way or another, I would consider that 
it was a Communist publication. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 307 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other publication with which you have 
been officially identified ? 

Mr. Starobin. Apart from wrting articles for magazines or news- 
papers which I am not at the moment recalling? 

Mr. Arens. Perhaps I can prompt your recollection. How about 
Masses and Mainstream ? 

Mr. Starobin. I already cited that publication. 

Mr. Arens. I thought you were speaking of New Masses. 

Mr. Starobin. No. I volunteered the information that I had writ- 
ten for' Mainstream. 

Mr. Arens. How about New Masses ? 

jVIr. Starobin. I think I have already identified it as an inde- 
pendent radical weekly. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an editor of that publication ^ 

Mr. Starobin. I was. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Starobin, are you a Communist ? 

Mr. Starobin. No, I do not consider myself a Communist today. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a Communist ? 

Mr. Starobin. Yes, I have been. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell the committee over what course 
of time you were a member of the Communist Party or a Communist ? 

Mr. Starobin. I was a member of the Communist Party from 1934 
until late in 1953. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Starobin. I believe I joined it here in New York. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall who recruited you into the party i 

Mr. Starobin. No, I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Would you just proceed at your own pace, Mr. Staro- 
bin, to tell us your career in the Communist Party, the highlights of 
your career? You say you went in in 1934. Tell us, if you please, 
sir, the units to which you were assigned and certain of your prin- 
cipal activities in the party. 

Mr. Starobin. No, I don't think it is necessary for me to give way 
to an excess of autobiography about these matters. 

Mr. Arens. Then we will do it the hard way. What Avas the first 
cell or unit to which you were assigned in the Communist Party when 
you joined in 1934. 

Mr. Starobin. As I say, I doirt think I want to go back into a de- 
tailed account of my career as a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
now, on this record, be ordered and directed to answer the last out- 
standing princi])al question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is now conferring with counsel. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Starobin. Sir, I feel these are matters so remote in time and 
seem to me to have no relation to what I understand to be the purpose 
of the committee today that I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Is tliat the only reason ? . , . , 

Mr. Starobin. That is sufficient reason. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. In 
giving this direction to you, it is not given in the spirit of a threat, but 
to advise you of the possible dangers of being in contempt of Congress. 
Therefore you are again directed to answer the question, Mr. Starobin. 



308 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Starobix. I don't see what a recollection of my joining an 
organization back in 1934 has to do with any contemporary problem 
that can possibly come under the purview of this committee. 

Mr. Arens. The record is clear that you have been ordered and 
directed to answer the question. I have a number of other questions 
I want to pose. 

Were you a member of the Communist Party when you were iden- 
tified with the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Starobin. I was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us the period of your identifica- 
tion with the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Starobin. The period of identification with the Daily Worker 
was 1942 to early 1954. 

Mr. Arens. Who engaged you at the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Starobin. Mr. Louis Budenz. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Gates ? 

Mr. Starobin. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. Let the record show that the witness confers with 
his counsel. 

Mr. Starobin. I take the position that it has been indicated in the 
press that he has been a member of the Commimist Party. My knowl- 
edge of that is public knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever served in a closed party meeting with 
John Gates ? 

Mr. Starobin. I am not going to go into a detailed account of my 
affairs and history in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
now be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or 
not he has ever served in a close Communist Party meeting with 
John Gates, 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so ordered and directed. 

Mr. Starobin. Will you indicate what relevance that can possibly 
have to the purported purpose of your calling me here? 

Mr. Arens. That is not an appropriate question for you to pose to 
the committee at this time. Does the record reflect that the witness has 
been ordered and directed to answer the question ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Starobin. Do you claim that this question is relevant to any 
contemporary purpose you may have ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Otherwise we would not ask. 

Mr. Starobin. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Moltlder. The committee takes the position that it is relevant 
and important information which you hold and could give to the com- 
mittee. For that reason, we direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Starobin. Let me point out that my political career is a matter 
of public record. I am not at all ashamed of it, although I don't stand 
by everything I have said and done in the past. I don't feel that this 
committee is a proper judge of my political views today or of my 
activities in the past. You have not stated why you have called me 
before this committee in the first place. I don't see any relevance 

Mr. Arens. The chairman gave an opening statement. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 309 

Mr. Starobix. Excuse me. I don't see any relevance. 

Mr. Arens. He gave an opening statement telling the scope and 
jurisdiction of this committee on the particular subject matter. 

Mr. Starobin. I see no relevance between that and wliom I knew 
in the Cuinmuiiist Party 15 years ago. 

Mr. Arexs. Is the record clear that this witness has been ordered 
and directed .to answer the question as to whether or not he has ever 
served in a closed Communist meeting with John Gates? 

Mr. Starobin. May I ask a question, sir? Will you indicate the 
relevance between the purported purpose of your committee as stated 
by you and the answer to such a question as you have indicated here 
today ? 

Mr. IVIouLDER. It is relevant, and the witness is again requested and 
directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Starobin. Will you indicate wdiat the relevance is ? 

Mr. Moulder. Does the witness refuse to answer the question ? 

Mr. Starobin. I have asked you a question which seems to be the 
determining factor in the matter. 

Mr. Moulder. We are not on the witness stand. 

Mr. Starobin. I know, but you have to indicate some relation of 
what you are trying to do here today and my knowledge of somebody 
15 years ago. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the record 
show an outstanding order now to the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. He 
has been so directed at least a half dozen times. 

Mr. Sciierer. You said you can't see the relevance with reference 
to somebody you knew to be a member of the Communist Party 15 
years ago. You said you left the party in 1953 ; was it ? 

Mr. Starobix. That is right, toward the end of 1953. 

Mr. Sciierer, When you left the Communist Party, was John Gates 
a member of the Communist Party ? That is not 15 years ago, 

Mr. Starobix. That was not the question that you asked, sir. I was 
asked when I had been hired on the Daily Worker. 

Mr. IMouLDER, He is posing another question now, 

Mr. Starobix, It was public knowledge in my judgment that he 
was a member of the Communist Party, and that is the knowledge 
I have in the matter, 

Mr, ScHERER. Did you know^ him to be a member of the Commu- 
nist Party personally ? 

]Mr, Starobix. I know^ him to be a member on the basis of what 
is publicly acknowledged. 

Mr, ScHERER. Did you ever sit in a closed Communist Party meet- 
ing with him ? 

Mr, Starobin, I wnll refuse to go into all those mattei-s, 

Mr, ScHERER, I ask you to direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. Moulder, The witness is so directed, 

Mr. Starobin. I will refuse to answer. 

Mr. Sciierer. Did you sit in a closed meeting with John Gates the 
last year you were a member of the Communist Party, namely, 1953? 

Mr. Starobin. Let me point out that Mr. Gates was in jail at that 
time. 

Mr, Sciierer, All right, then, in 1952. 



310 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Starobin. Mr. Gates was in jail at that time. 

Mr. ScHERER. What about 1951 ? 

Mr. Starobin. No ; I will not go into matters concerning my career 
in the Communist Party as pertains to individuals who may have 
been members. I consider that all such questions are an invasion of 
my right to hold political opinions and to take part in political activ- 
ities, and further I will say in the words of the New York Times edi- 
torial of last summer that such kind of testimony would lacerate my 
conscience. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee refuses to accept your reasons just 
stated for refusal to answer the question propounded by Congressrnan 
Scherer and, therefore, you are directed to answer the question which 
he propounded to you, 

Mr. Starobin. I have indicated the grounds on which I feel that 
the connnittee's questions are not relevant, and I believe that I have 
indicated my readiness to answer questions concerning my own affairs 
and my views, but I will not go into an area which I feel is admittedly 
irrelevant to the purpose of this investigation. 

Mr. Scherer. When was Mr. (rates last connected with the Daily 
Worker? 

Mr, Starobin. Pardon me? 

Mr, Scherer. When was Mr. Gates last connected with the Daily 
Worker to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Starobin. Mr. Scherer, you had testimony here yesterday from 
one of your star witnesses, a sort of political Univac, Mr, Lautner, 
with respect to Mr, Gates. Do you so disbelieve his testimony that 
you find it necessary to ask me the same question ? 

Mr, Scherer, I asked you the question. Do you have any knowl- 
edge as to when he was last a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Starobin. Are you so unaware of Mr. Gates' position that you 
need my corroboration in the matter ? 

Mr. Moulder. That is not responsive to the question, Mr. Witness. 
You are directed to answer the question. The question is. Do you 
have any knowledge or information concerning the last period of time 
when jSfr. Gates was connected with the Daily Worker ? Is that right ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr, Starobin, Will you repeat the question, sir? 

Mr, Scherer. "When was the last time that you had knowledge of 
the fact that Mr. Gates was engaged or connected with the Daily 
Worker? 

Mr, Starobin. I knew Mr. Gates as an editor of the Dailv Worker 
back in 1951. 

Mr. Scherer. At that time, was he a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Starobin. He was publicl}' acknowledged to be so, and I have 
that knowledge of it. 

Mr. Scherer. Is that the only knowledge you have ? 

Mr. Starobin. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. The public knowledge? 

Mr. Starobin. The public knowledge. 

]Mr. Scherer. Did vou sit in a closed Communist Party meeting 
with him in 1951? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 311 

Mr. Stakobin. I will not oo into meetings that I have sat in in the 
Comnnmist Party. 

Mr. ScHEUER. I ask you to direct the witness once more to answer 
that question. 

Mr. ]MouLDER. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. Akens. What precipitated your disassociation from the Com- 
munist Party in 1953? 

Mr. Starobin. I had differences of opinion about the course of the 
Communist Party and its understanding of world events and national 
events. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you disassociate yourself from the party or did the 
])arty disassociate you ? 

Mr, Starobix. I refused to resume membership in the Communist 
Party since I had been abroad ; and since it would have been normal 
to resume membership in the party, and since I had these differences 
of opinion with it, I declined to reregister. 

Mr. Arens. "\^niere had 3'ou been abroad ? 

Mr. Starobix. I had traveled abroad as an editor of the Daily 
Worker and as its correspondent. 

Mr. Arex^s. In what country or countries ? 

Mr. Starobix'. I liad resided in Paris fi-om the spring of 1951 until 
July 1952. While in Paris, I traveled to Geneva to attend Uiiited 
Xations conferences. I traveled to Berlin to attend the festival of 
some sort that was going there that summer of 1951. In July 1952, 
I traveled from Paris to undertake journalistic activity in China, 
where I spent a good part of the next 4 or 5 months. I traveled back 
to attend a congress that was taking place in Vienna, and returned to 
China for several months ; and in the course of the latter part of my 
stay in China, I visited northern Indochina. From China, I made my 
way back to Western Europe and then returned home. 

Mr. Arexs. How did you get into China ? 

(The witness consulted Avith his counsel.) ■ 

Mr. Starobix. Obvioush', in traveling to China, I crossed the Soviet 
■Union several times. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you travel to Red China on a United States pass- 
port ^ 

Mr. Starobix. I did. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you notify the State Department prior to the time 
that you went to Red China that you proposed to go to that country? 

Mr. Starobix. There was no embai'go in my passport on travel to 
China. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you, when you made application for your pass- 
port, indicate on your application that one of the countries of your 
ultimate destination would be Red China ? 

Mr. Starobix. I did not know at that time that I made a^jplication 
that one of the countries I might visit would be China. 

Mr. Arexs. Who made the arrangements for 3'OU, in the Soviet 
Union, for you to go into Red China ? 

Mr. Starobix. Xobody made any arrangements for me in the Soviet 
Union. I was invited by the Chinese to visit their country, and ac- 
cepted the invitation and crossed the Soviet Union in order to do so. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you invited before you left this country or after 
you left? 

.•^di;o!) (j. j'- 



312 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Starobin. No ; I was not invited before I left this country. 

Mr. Arens. "VVlio in the Red Chinese setup in government, or what 
organization in Red China, invited you to visit tliem ? 

Mr. Starobin. I was not invited by a governmental organization. 
I was invited by a nongovernmental organization. 

Mr. Arens. And the name of it? 

Mr. Starobin. The name of it is the Chinese Peace Committee. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you when you received the invitation ? 

Mr. Starobin. In Paris. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any idea as to how they happened to 
send an invitation to you ? 

Mr. Starobin. I was living in Paris at the time, and somebody 
thought it would be a nice thing to invite me to come to China, and 
so they did. 

Mr. Arens. "Who was it thought it would be a nice thing to invite 
you ? 

Mr. Starobin. It was a member of the Chinese Peace Committee 
whose name I am not sure I can recall. 

Mr. Arens. Who paid your expenses from Paris to China? 

Mr. Starobin. My expenses from Paris to Berlin were paid by my- 
self. Since I was a guest of the China Peace Committee, the China 
Peace Committee paid my expenses from Berlin to Peking. 

Mr. Arens. What happened when you got to Peking? 

Mr. Starobin. I have written about this at great length. I pub- 
lished a book about it. I question the relevance of a detailed recount 
of something that I have made as a matter of public record. 

Mr. Scherer. You were not under oath when you published the 
book. You are under oath now. 

Mr. Starobin. I have no objection, sir, to telling you about my 
experiences in China or my impressions of China. 

Mr. Scherer. Answer the questions of counsel. 

Mr. Arens. AMiile in China, did you make any investigation to as- 
certain whether or not it is true that the Red Cliinese Communist re- 
gime murdered an estimated -lO million of tlieir fellow countrymen in 
the course of their ascension to power ? 

Mr. Starobin. Insofar as I was interested in a study of the whole 
evolution of Chinese affairs, I came across that allegation, and I would 
say I am firmly convinced that it is not true. On the contrary, sir, 
the chances are that about 20 million Chinese were nuirdered in the 
course of the previous 20 years of revolutionary development in China. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in the course of your visit in China, interest 
yourself in the matter of the slave labor camps in which there are at 
this moment reposing another 20 million Chinese lingering under the 
hand of the Chinese regime ? 

Mr. Starobin. I interested myself in that allegation and on the 
basis of my very best knowledge, I would say that is highly likely to 
be untrue. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in the course of your visit to Red China, in- 
terest yourself in the opium, drug, narcotics war that is being engaged 
in in the Far East now by the Red Chinese opium machine for the 
purpose of demoralizing the people of the Far East and procuring 
hard currency for the Chinese war machine ? 

Mr. Starobin. I can't say I did. I don't have any special interest 
in opium. I think the charges that are being made to that effect are 
very much subject to doubt. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 313 

Mr. Arexs. Did you, in the course of your visit to Red China, in- 
terest youi-self in the allegation made by the Red Chinese that this 
Government, under whose flag you now obtain protection, was engaged 
in germ warfare in Korea? 

Mr. Starobix. Yes, I interested myself very much in that subject, 
sir. I attended gatherings of prominent scientists from many parts 
of the world who come there to investigate this problem. All I can 
say on the subject, sir, is that 1 reported the point of view of both 
sides without expressing a judgment of my own. 

^Ir. Arexs. At the time you were in Red China, you were a member 
of the Connnunist Party ? 

Mr. Starobix. I would say that I considered myself such. 

Mr. Moulder. You say you wrote articles expressing the sentiments 
and views of both sides on the question of germ warfare. Could you 
now express your opinion about that? Your personal opinion, not 
expressing the opinion of others. 

Mr. Starobix. M}' personal opinion on that is that this is one of 
the unsettled questions of this era, and I am prepared to examine 
evidence from both sides on this subject. Since I mj^self had no 
direct contract with the area or with the peoople involved, I felt it was 
my duty as a newspaperman to report both points of view, and I am 
prepared to leave it at that until further evidence is brought by either 
side. 

Mr. Arexs. When did you first begin to be disillusioned with the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Starobix. I don't think you can properly understand this 
process in terms of the word ''disillusion." 

Mr. Arexs. You characterize it. I was under the impression that 
you said you had broken from the Communist Party. 

Mr. Starobix. I said I had differences with the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arexs. What were those differences ? 

Mr. Starobix'^. I said that those differences pertained to their esti- 
mate of world and national affairs. 

Mr. Arexs. Give us a little bit more specific analysis. 

Mr. Starobix. I would be glad to do that. It was my opinion, 
developing over several years, that the concepts that largely prevailed 
in the Communist Party and in my own mind — that the issues between 
ourselves and the Soviet Union were likely to take the form of a 
world war or were likely to be resolved by a physical struggle — that 
that concept insofar as it prevailed was an erroneous one; and I 
was firmly convinced that it was altogether possible that, as between 
the United States and the Soviet Union, both countries would con- 
tribute to easing the cold war and that there would be no physical 
showdown between them. In other words, I believe ver}^ much in the 
real possibility that an era of coexistence would succeed that period 
of the cold war. It was my view, sir 

Mr. Moulder. I want to intervene again on this. I can't get this 
question of germ warfare off' my mind. As I understand you, it is 
your position that, in spite of the fact that your own American Gov- 
ernment — highly placed responsible American officials in our civil 
Government as well as our military — vehement!}' denied ever having 
used any germ warfare in the conflict in Korea, in spite of all that 
evidence and their statements and denials, that you have some question 
in your mind about it? 



314 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Starobin. Yes, sir. I am ordinarily inclined to give the benefit 
of the doubt to those people who vehemently deny something. I am 
not saying that that denial is not necessarily true. But I have also 
come, on the basis of study and observation, to realize that things 
which are at times denied by many governments subsequently turn 
out to at least have an aspect of truth. 

Mr. IMouLDER. Do you know any American soldier or anyone in the 
military service that has ever given any such information that they 
used germ warfare? 

Mr. Starobin. I know nothing more about the matter than I have 
read in the press, and I have taken the position publicly that this 
question is open to further investigation and verification. 

Mr. Arens. Will you proceed, then, to tell us the basis upon which 
you and the Communist Party parted company ? 

Mr. Starobin. I was indicating, sir, that I was firmly of the opinion 
that the whole era of the cold war was coming to a close and that on 
both sides there was a real tendency toward a prolonged era of peace- 
ful coexistence. I found that many of my friends in the Communist 
Party, while they agreed that that was a strong possibility, did not 
seem to estimate properly the real changes that were taking place in 
the postwar years, that were making peaceful coexistence a definite 
development. I found them under the impression of the probability 
of still greater catastrophic developments in world affairs, whereas 
it seemed to me that the danger of those catastrophic developments 
was receding. That was perhaps the center of my differences of view. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pause right there? Did you know that the 
Communist conspiracy was bent, and is bent this instant, upon a world 
revolution for world domination? 

Mr. Starobin. I don't think, sir, that you can properly understand 
this issue or understand my point of view if j^ou start off from the 
proposition of a conspiracy. I do not think that the Communist 
movement in my time was a conspiracy. I don't think people join it 
to conspire to do anything. They join it because they believe in 
certain things. I think the concept of a conspiracy is one of those 
that has utterly poisoned American public opinion, has affected Com- 
munists and non- Communists alike, and that we had better get away 
from that concept. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever heard of dupes of the conspiracy? 

Mr. Starobin. I have heard it alleged, certainly. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think you might have been a dupe of the 
conspiracy ? 

Mr. Starobin. No; I don't think I was a dupe of anything. 

Mr. Arens. Were you perhaps duped about Comrade Stalin ? 

Mr. Starobin. No; I don't think I was duped. 

Mr. Arens. Look at this article you wrote here about Comrade 
Stalin back in 1949, in which you were praising him as one of the 
great saviors of humanity, one of the leaders of all the forces of 
righteousness in the world, and tell us whether or not you think now 
perhaps you might have been a little bit mistaken about this great 
savior of mankind. 

Mr. Starobin. I see the copy of the article. I will tell you right 
now that I might have been mistaken, but I don't think I was duped. 
The concept of dupe implies that somebody was duping me, whereas 
the chances were that my mistakes were essentially my own. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 315 

Mr. Moulder. Who did dupe you? Was it Stalin or somebody 
else? 

Mr. Arens. Were you cognizant of the statements by this man, 
which you described as the greatest benefactor of humanity in the his- 
tory of the world, that there can be no more sincere diplomacy than 
there could be dry water ? 

Mr. Starobin. You would have to show mere (sic) where you call 
him the greatest benefactor. 

Mr. Arens. Your great laudatory phrases. 

Mr. Starobin. You would have to be more specific. I have not 
read the article, but I acknowledge it is my article. 

Mr. Arens. Do you acknowledge that you lauded him to the skies ? 

Mr. Starobin. I am sure I spoke favorably of him. 

Mr. Arens. You spoke more than favorably, did you not? 

Mr. Starobin. I believe the word "favorably'' certainly expresses 
my view of him at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Have you modified your position as of today with 
reference to Comrade Stalin ? 

Mr. Starobin. I certainly have. 

Mr. xViuENs. When did this change of position by yourself witli 
reference to Comrade Stalin take place? 

Mr. Starobin. Let me say that, in my favorable comments on the 
role of Mr. Stalin, I certainly was very unoriginal, since prominent 
statesmen of all countries held him in very high esteem. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us, in response to the question, when it was you 
changed your mind about Comrade Stalin. 

Mr. Starobin, I tliink I never 

Mr. Sciieri-:r. He means was it simultaneously with Klirushchev's 
change ? 

Mr. Starobin. Let me make clear that I never attached quite as 
much importance to the problem of Stalin, in terms of determining my 
own vieAvs, history and politics, as may be indicated by your question ; 
and I certainly was shocked, as I think most people were, by the 
criticism which the Soviet leaders themselves make of Stalin's career. 

Mr. Arens. Did your position witli reference to Stalin change before 
or after Khrushchev's famous speech in wliicli he desanctified Stalin? 

Mr. Starobin. I have not expressed any great opinion on Stalin one 
way or another since Mr. Khrushcliev spoke. I want to make clear 
that my views with respect to the Communist Party have no direct 
relationship to Mr. Klirushchev's views about Stalin. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently a Marxist? 

Mr. Starobin. Yes; I would consider myself a Marxist, or at least 
I am trying to explore the validity of Marxist thought and its relevance 
to American life. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know that the Communist Party of the T^nited 
States advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United 
States by force and violence? 

Mr. Starobin. I don't think it does. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know that men in high positions Avho have 
studied this, such as J. Edgar Hoover and the ablest security officers 
we have in the Government, on the basis of testimony, on the basis of 
statements by undercover agents in the conspiracy, on the basis of 
documents of the conspiracy itself, have established to the satisfaction 



316 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

of the courts, including the Supreme Court of the United States, that 
the Communist Party of the United States does advocate the overthrow 
of the Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Fr.\enkel. May comisel interject to tliis question, because I 
don't think it is a fair question ? 

Mr. Arens. CounsePs sole and exclusive prerogative in this pro- 
ceeding is to advise his client of his constitutional rights. 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Starobin. I want to point out to you, sir, that I have been very 
generous in answering your questions on a wide range of subject mat- 
ter. If you feel that this question is relevant, I will be glad to answer 
it, provided that you limit the number of things that you include 
within the umbrella of the question. Perhaps it might be well to 
leave the Supreme Court out of it. 

Mr. Arens. Each one of those was a basis upon which reasonable 
men would conclude, and the courts have concluded, that the Com- 
munist Party is a conspiracy, and Congress has concluded. I wonder 
if you are cognizant of that fact when you take the position that it is 
not a conspiracy. 

Mr. Moulder. The first question is : Are you cognizant of the fact 
that the courts have so ruled ? 

Mr. Starobin. I believe some courts have ruled. Without in any 
way diminishing my disassociation of the Communist Party and my 
criticism of it, I believe that courts, like all human factors, may be 
mistaken in such matters. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Starobin, you have broken part of the way from the 
Communist Party. Why don't you right now serve your Government 
by breaking all the way and tell this committee, while you are under 
oath, the names of persons known by you to have been members of the 
Communist Party as of 1953, when you broke from the conspiracy? 

Mr. Fraenkel. That is a highly objectionable question, 

Mr. Starobin. I don't think the measure of my disassociation of 
the Communist Party can be found in my readiness to name the names 
of innocent people, some of whom I may know and others who I may 
not know, who may or may not be members of the Communist Party. 
I don't think that is a measure of whether I am or am not a Commu- 
nist. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us the name of the noninnocent Communists you 
knew as of 1953. 

Mr. Starobin. I will not go into that matter, sir, because I think 
it is the duty of all people. Communists, ex-Communists, former Com- 
munists, or non-Communists, to refuse to supply the committee with 
names of people whom they may have known; and I think that the 
supply of such names is of no service whatever to the United States 
Government. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information now as to the names of 
persons who were known by you to have been members of the Com- 
munist Party in the United States in 1953, when you broke from the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Starobin. Are you asking me the names of specific people? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Do you have the names now in your mind of 
specific people known by you to have been members of the Communist 
Party in the United States in 1953 ? 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 317 

Mr. Starobix. Of course I knew of sucli people. 

Mr. Arens. You are now requested, Mr. Starobin, to furnish those 
names to this committee at this time. 

Mr. Starobin. I will refuse on the grounds, sir, first that it has 
nothing to do with the purported purpose of this committee. Sec- 
ondly, it serves no purpose with respect to the Public Law 601 under 
which the committee was founded. Thirdly, it is not a measure of 
my disassociation from the Communist Party. Fourthly, I see that 
it contributes nothing whatsoever except a trauma in the American 
mind. So the impression is given that something is being accom- 
plished by the naming of the names of given people, whereas, in fact, 
communism is a movement. It is a political point of view. It must 
be debated on its own merits. It must be rejected if one wishes to 
reject it. The whole conception that gentlemen like yourself, perhaps 
in all good faith, have injected into this matter has served to poison 
the public mind. 

Mr. Moulder. The grounds which you are stating as a reason for 
refusal to answer are pure argument. You are directed to answer 
the question. The committee refuses to accept your reasons as legit- 
imate reasons to refuse to answer. 

Mr. Starobin. I will refuse to answer it on the grounds that it vio- 
lates my own conscience. 

Mr. ScHERER. How do you explain, then, the fact that juries all 
over this country have convicted high officials in the Communist 
Party and that those convictions have been sustained by the liighest 
courts, convictions for advocating and teaching the overthrow of this 
Government by force and violence ? How does that fit in with your 
speech that you have been making? 

Mr. Starobin. How do I explain that juries have convicted people 
accused of that ? You mean why did the j uries do it ? 

Mr. SciiERER. How do you reconcile that with your statement that 
the Conununist Party is just a political party ? 

Mr. Starobin. I will be glad to do that, sir. The fact of the matter 
is that this tendency of juries to convict people is of very recent origin. 
There Avas a time in American life, in fact, a very long time, in which 
it was generally recognized tliat Communists were people of a certain 
point of view. I think that the juries have been yielding to a public 
climate created in part by the kind of investigations that you have 
conducted, and I think that climate is going to disappear in American 
life. 

Mr. Scherer. Then the highest courts of this land when they have 
sustained those convictions, you say have yielded to public opinion ? 

Mr. Starobin. I think, sir, that the highest courts were divided on 
this question. The matter is still being reviewed. I would go further 
and say that our experience with many countries is that the courts 
may often be mistaken. 

Mr. Scherer. Gates has been convicted. His sentence was affirmed 
and he served his sentence and he is out. Do you mean to say that 
there was no evidence before those juries and that all the people who 
were convicted did not advocate the overthrow of this Government by 
force and violence? 

Mr. Starobin. Of course there was evidence adduced. 

Mr. Scherer. Sure there was evidence adduced. 



318 COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Starobin. Of course there was evidence adduced. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you say that evidence was all perjured evidence? 

Mr. Starobin. I am not going to try to pass judgment on a pro- 
longed trial, but I have knowledge in my own case of what I consider 
to be perjured evidence in the matter. 

Mr. ScHERER. In all of those cases ? 

Mr. Starobin. I say I have knowledge of my own experience of 
what I consider to be perjured evidence in the matter. 

Mr. Arens. Let us read again the Communist Manifesto. 

Mr. Scherer. You see what becomes of the speech he made when 
you view it in the light of the fact that there has been overwhelming 
evidence in this country that men have advocated the overthrow of 
this Government by force and violence. Juries have so found and 
the convictions have been sustained by the highest courts in the land. 
Do you say the courts have been corrupted ? 

Mr. Starobin. I did not say that. They could have been mistaken 
and these judgments could be reversed at a future time. 

Mr. Scherer. Are they going to reverse Gates' conviction? 

Mr. Starobin. Is that not possible? If other countries have ad- 
mitted mistakes in their jurisprudence, is it not possible that we will 
some day admit a mistake ? 

Mr. Arens. Did somebody make a mistake in the Communist Mani- 
festo when they openly declare that their end can be attained only by 
the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions? That is the 
Communist Manifesto. 

Mr. Starobin. That was written by Mr. Marx and Engels about a 
100 years ago. I think if it had any validity at the time, it has in 
our time ceased to have any validity. 

Mr. Scherer. Foster's statement is not 100 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. ^Vlien he said they will take over this Government with 
the Red army behind it. Was he wrong ? 

Mr. Starobin. Yes ; he was absolutely wrong, and I think he him- 
self has admitted that he was wrong. He admitted that it was a 
foolish mis judgment of the state of affairs. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel you were foolishly misguided in being a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Starobin. No. I think I made a great many mistakes. There 
were aspects of my activity as a Communist which I do not stand by 
today, and which were mistaken in their time. But I do not regret the 
years I spent in the Communist Party because I think the kind of 
problems to which I was trying to seek an answer remain as problems 
which will now have to be resolved by a wider body of Americans than 
the Communist Party itself can possibly provide. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that would con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. I will ask you this question. You referred to your 
salary while you were working for the Daily Worker. Were you paid 
directly by the Daily Worker or did you receive your compensation 
from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Starobin. The facts of that are that there was 1 year in which 
I was partly employed by the Communist Party. The balance of the 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 319 

time, I was employed exclusively by the Daily Worker and paid by 
them in the period I was a member of its staff. 

Mr. Moulder. Yesterday, there was considerable testimony before 
the committee and evidence concerning the importation of Commu- 
nist Party propaganda coming from foreign countries, from the Soviet 
Union and the satellite countries. Do you receive, or subscribe to, any 
of those publications ? 

Mr. Starobin. I don't subscribe to any of them, sir. Is that a 
question which will begin a line of inquiry on this, sir? I want to 
establish whether there are a whole series of questions that you have in 
mind with respect to this matter. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Starobin. No. I don't subscribe to any of them. I occasion- 
ally receive copies of publications that are published in other coun- 
tries. 

Mr. Moulder. Then you are on the mailing list to receive such 
publications ? 

Mr. Starobin. I may be. 

Mr. Moulder. You receive them, you say, unsolicited ? 

Mr. Starobin. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. They are personally addressed to you ? 

Mr. Starobin. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Any further questions? 

Mr. Scherer. In your testimony, you attack Mr. John Lautner who, 
like you, was a former Communist — you attack his testimony of yester- 
day — is there anything he said to this committee that was untrue? 
Did he lie to this committee in any of his identifications? 

Mr. Starobin. I did not hear his testimony, sir. I have not read 
it. I know of it only from this morning's press. I did not attack 
his testimony. I questioned why it was that you seem to want a 
corroboration from me of facts which he allegedly gave you to be 
facts. 

Mr. Scherer. You say you did not attack Lautner ? 

Mr. Starobin. If you want to enter into a discussion of what I 
think of Lautner, I will be perfectly prepared to do so. 

Mr. Moulder. That is all. The witness is excused. You may claim 
your fees as a witness with Mr. Jones, who is acting as clerk for 
the committee. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for a period of 
5 minutes. 

(Committee members present at time of taking of recess: Repre- 
sentatives Moulder and Scherer.) 

(Short recess.) 

(Committee members present at time of reconvening: Representa- 
tives Moulder and Scherer.) 

Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Angus Cameron, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Cameron. I do. 



320 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

TESTIMONY OF ANGUS CAMERON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
STANLEY FAULKNER 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Cameron, My name is Angus Cameron. I live in Upper Jay, 
N. Y., and I am a book publisher. May I ask one right here ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Cameron. Will you identify yourself ? 

Mr. Arens. My name is Richard Arens. I am director of the 
staff of the Committee on Un-American Activities of the House of 
Representatives. 

You are appearing today, Mr. Cameron, in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities. 

Mr. Cameron. Yes ; which didn't explain to me why I was served. 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Cameron. Yes. 

Mr. Faulkner. Stanley Faulkner, 9 East 40th Street, New York, 
N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. I understood you to say in the opening response to 
the question, Mr. Cameron, you are in the publishing business? 

Mr. Cameron. You heard correctly. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the firm ? 

Mr. Cameron. Cameron Associates. 

Mr. Arens. What is your relationship to the firm? 

Mr. Cameron. I am the president. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any other business or occupation in which 
you are employed or engaged? 

Mr. Cameron. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us the name of any other firm with which you 
are identified. 

Mr. Cameron. I am also connected with the Liberty Book Club, 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been comiected with Liberty Book 
Club? 

Mr. Cameron. Since the fall of 1954. 

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity ? 

Mr. Cameron. As president. 

Mr. Arens. Where is Liberty Book Club located? 

Mr. Cameron. On 23d Street. 

Mr. Arens. Is it a corporation? 

Mr. Cameron. It is. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of its business ? 

Mr. Cameron. Like all book clubs, it distributes to meml3ership 
books selected from the list of different publishers. 

Mr. Arens. Do you own the controlling interest in the corporation? 

Mr. Cameron. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Who are the other officers besides yourself in the Lib- 
erty Book Club? 

Mr. Cameron. Mr. Carl Marzani is the vice president and Mr. Alex 
Munsell is treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. What is the approximate volume of business of the 
Liberty Book Club ? 

Mr. Cameron. Is that pertinent? 



COIVIIVIUNIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 321 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Camerox. In what way ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. MotivDER. Yes. 

Mr. Cameron. I have asked a question, too. In what way is it 
pertinent ? 

Mr. i\Iot LDER. Your response is argumentative. 

Mr. Cameron. How do 3'ou know it is ? 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Cameron. You see you liave not explained to me. I asked to 
begin with 

Mr. ]\Ioi'EDER. That is not for you to decide. 

Mr. Cameron. Just a moment. May I ask a question ? 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. That 
direction is not given in the spirit of a threat but for the purpose of 
advising 3'ou of the possible dangers of being in contempt of Congress 
for refusing to answer. 

Mr. Cameron. The question that I would like to ask is this: On 
what grounds was I subpenaed here? What is the basis for the 
subpena? There was no explanation to me. I have not the slightest 
idea why I am here. 

Mr. Moulder. What was the question? 

Mr. Arens. The outstanding question is, what is the approximate 
volume of business of the Liberty Book Club. 

Mr. Cameron. Will you answer my question after I answer this 
one? 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer. 

Mr. Cameron. About $125,000. 

Mr. Arens. Is that $125,000 a year ? 

Mr. Cameron. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. From what source is that $125,000 derived, all from 
the sale of books? 

Mr. Cameron. From the sale of books. 

Mr. Arens. Is Liberty Book Club, or are you, or are any of the 
officers of the Liberty Book Club registered under the Foreign Agents 
Registration Act? 

Mr. Cameron. Of course not. 

Mr. Arens. Who organized the Liberty Book Club ? 

Mr. Cameron. I was not in on the organization of the Liberty Book 
Club. I can't answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. You do not know ? 

Mr. Cameron. I do not know. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a Communist? 

Mr. Cameron. I am going to decline to answer that question. I 
want to give my full reasons for declining to answer. I want to say 
first that I jim going to decline to answer the question just as a man. 
I am declining to answer it because it is beneath my dignity before 
the likes of people here on the committee today 

Mr. Arens. We have been condemned })v experts. 

Mr. Cameron. Never mind. I am answering the question. You 
are paid to ask the questions but not x)ut answers in my mouth. Let me 
answer the question. 

90121— 57— i)t. 5. 6 



322 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. Are you going to claim the fifth amendment ? If so, 
why don't you do that ? 

Mr. Cameron. I will give my reasons for refusing to answer any 
question. I believe I have the right to answer the question the way 
I wish to. I know, knowing this committee's tactics and methods, if 
I don't state my grounds carefully, that any number of things can 
happen. We are all familiar with this committee and its reputation 
and its record. 

The first reason I am declining to answer the question 

Mr. SciiERER. We do not happen to be memlx^rs of the Communist 
conspiracy. That is one thing of which you can not accuse us. 

Mr. Cameron. Are you prejudging? Do you know the grounds on 
which I am going to decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cameron. I am explaining the reason why I am going to re- 
fuse to answer. In the first place, it is against my conscience as a 
man to explain anything about my political associations, my political 
beliefs, my moral beliefs or religious beliefs to the likes of you. I 
want to make that. That is one basis. 

Mr. Arens. That is just because you don't like us. 

Mr. Cameron. No; it is because I don't like what you stand for. 
That is the first thing. 

Mr. INIouLDER. We are proud of that. 

Mr. Cameron. I understand you are. You understand that I dis- 
sent from that position. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. 

Mr. Cameron. I am completely against what you stand for and 
what the committee stood for. 

Mr. Scherer. So are all Communists. 

Mr. Cameron. Never mind. Plenty of other people are interested 
to 

Mr. Arens. We are used to this Commie attack. 

Mr. Cameron. You don't make any comments to me. If you want 
to do so, make questions. 

Mr. Arens. You are declining to answer and giving us the reasons. 
That is the status of the record. 

Mr. Cameron. That is correct. The first reason I decline to answer 
is because I am a man. It is beneath my dignity to answer questions 
about my political beliefs to the likes of you. 

Mr. Scherer. A man would not make that statement. 

Mr. Cameron. Nevermind. I made that statement. I think a man 
would make that statement. 

Mr. Arens. If you are a patriotic red-blooded American then say, 
"Of course not, I am not a member of the Communist conspiracy." 

Mr. Cameron. Are you trying to put answers in my mouth ? 

Mr. Arens. I am suggesting if you are a man, if you are a patriot, 
you might do that. 

Mr. Cameron. Mr. Chairman, this gentleman is paid to ask the 
questions and not put answers in my mouth. 

Mr. Moulder. You are under the law compelled to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Cameron. I am in the process of answering after numerous 
interruptions. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 323 

Mr. Moulder. You are declining to answer and giving your rea- 
sons. 

Mr. Cameron. I am giving my reasons for declining to answer. 
The first reason I decline is because I am a man. The second reason I 
decline to answer is as a publisher. I decline to answer as a publisher 
under the first amendment to the Constitution. I think a book pub- 
lisher has a peculiar responsibility to oppose and thwart the real pur- 
poses of committees like this, which is nothing more than the intimi- 
dation of any expression of views that may be opposing yours. As 
I say, I think a publisher has a peculiar responsibility to oppose you. 
I believe that publishers have a protection to oppose you under the 
first amendment of the Constitution which provides for freedom of the 
press. I believe that there are Supreme Court decisions recently 
which I would like to quote perhaps. 

Mr. Moulder. That will speak for itself. Proceed with your other 
reasons. 

Mr. Cameron. Never mind. I want to finish my reasons under the 
first amendment. I believe it is the obligation of anybody who has a 
belief in the freedom of the press in this country to oppose this com- 
mittee as hard and as strongly as he possibly can. 

Mr. ScHERER. What does freedom of the press have to do with your 
membership in the Communist Party ? We are asking you, Are you a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cameron. I am telling you why I refuse to answer the question. 
\ Mr. Sc-HERER. Your remairks are irrelevant. 

Mr. Cameron. They may be irrelevant to you but not to me. You 
ask the questions. Don't judge my answers. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have another reason ? 

Mr. Cameron. I have another reason. 

Mr. Arens. Are you going to get around to the fifth amendment 
pretty soon ? 

Mr. Cameron. I am going to proudly assert that I refuse to answer 
the question under the protection afforded me in the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Let us get right to the point. Do you honestly appre- 
hend that if you gave a truthful answer while you are under oath as 
to whether or not you are now a Communist, you would be supplying 
information which could be used against you in a criminal proceed- 
ing? 

Mr. Cameron. As you know perfectly well, I don't have to give any 
reasons for using the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
now be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Faulkner. Will Mr. Arens stop badgering the witness? I am 
familiar with what you are going to read. You read it all morning. 

Mr. Arens. You better conform to it. 

Mr. Cameron. As you perfectly well know, I am not obliged to give 
you any reason or explanation for asserting my rights under the fifth 
amendment. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
all three grounds, too. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that this record reflect that the 
witness has been ordered and directed to answer the question last out- 
standing on the record. 



324 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr, Cameron. I decline to answer the question on the three 
grounds I have given, as a man, under the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. However lie has 
stated his reasons. I understand that you decline to answer for those 
reasons. 

Mr. Cameron. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person, or have you known a person, by 
the name of Herlwrt Philbrick ? 

Mr. Cameron. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or have you known, a person by the 
name of Louis Budenz ? 

Mr. Cameron. No, not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever known such persons ? 

Mr. Cameron. Not to my knowledge, no. 

Mr. Arens. I want to display to you here a photostatic copy of 
the magazine section of the Daily People's World (Friday, Jan. 7, 
1955, p. 7) on the west coast in which an advertisement appeare 
of the Liberty Book Club. The person ^^■ho reads the advertisement 
is urged to subscribe to the Liberty Book Club, in care of the Com- 
munist Daily People's World in San Francisco. Look at that ad- 
vertisement of the Liberty Book Club, of which you are president, and 
tell this committee if you have any word of explanation as to why 
people on the west coast would be urged to subscribe to Liberty Book 
Club in care of the Daily People's World? Can you help us on that? 

Mr. Cameron. Yes. If you knew a little bit more about the prac- 
tices of the book trade, you would not bother to ask the question. 
Where magazines and periodicals sometimes sell books of publishers 
or book clubs, they will sometimes run their own ads. This ad was 
not set up by us, I believe; but there is an arrangement with various 
^periodicals by which we will pay a certain amount of money 

Mr. Arens. Let us be specific. 

Mr. Cameron. Just a minute. You are asking about this particu- 
lar one. Let me finish the question. Let me finish the answer. 

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Cameron. By which a certain commission is paid for the sale 
of memberships. 

Mr. Arens. We understand all that. The question we are asking 
you about is the connection between the Liberty Book Club of which 
you are president and the Daily People's World on the west coast. 
Tell us about that. 

Mr. Cameron. I will tell you exactly about it. The connection is 
the connection of a seller paying a commission. 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit No. 1," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that the Daily People's World is a 
Communist publication ? 

Mr. Cameron. I do not know necessarily that the Daily People's 
World is a Communist pul)lication, and the assertion by the likes of 
you would not prove it to me, either. I don't ask the editorial policy 
of ever}^ magazine I would advertise in. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a reproduction of a pamphlet of the 
Samuel Adams School for Social Studies, showing the board of 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 325 

Iriistees, and on tlie board of trustees is a person here identified as 
Angus Cameron. Look at tliat pamphlet and tell ns whether or not 
you are he. 

Mr. Moulder. You mean whether or not he is the person referred 
to. 

Mr. Camerox. I am. 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit Xo. 2," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay l^efore you a reproduction of a letterhead of the 
Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy in which one of the 
sponsors of this organization is Angus Cameron. Look at that docu- 
ment and tell us whether or not you are he. 

Mr. Cameron. I am assuming you are going to connect this up to 
something. Have you established anything about these organizations ? 

Mr. Arens. Just answer the question, please, sir. 

Mr. Cameron. I don't know whether I will answer the question 
or not. I will say this to begin with. The things I belong to are 
a matter of public record. I am proud of the friends I have and 
the associations I have made and the organizations I have joined. 

Mr. Arens. If you were proud of them, you would not hesitate to 
tell us about them. 

Mr. Cameron. Don't put any words in my mouth. 

Mr. Arens. You go right ahead. 

Mr. Cameron. I certainly intend to do so. Xow never mind. As 
I say I am proud of the associations I have made, and I don't intend 
to explain them or go into them before this committee on the same 
three grounds that I gave before. I decline to answer that on the 
same three grounds. 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit No. 3," and retained in 
■committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee whether or not you are or have been a sponsor of this organ- 
ization alluded to in that letterhead, you might be supplying informa- 
tion which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Cameron. As a lawyer, you ought to know that I don't have 
to explain to 3'ou the use of the fifth amendment. I am declining 
to answer this question on the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. As a lawyer and as members of this committee, we 
are required by the decision of the Court to explain to you that you 
must answer yes or no to that last question. That is what we are 
required to explain to you. 

Mr. Cameron. Then you will require me to consult my own counsel. 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Arens asked the question whether or not you 
honestly believe that to answer such a question might tend to in- 
criminate you. That is the test the Court said we must apply. 

Mr. Cameron. Don't rewrite the Constitution. The word "incrim- 
inate" is not in the fifth amendment. I decline to answer on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. May I state that it is the opinion of this member of 
the committee, at least, that the witness has placed himself in contempt 
for refusing to answer that question. 



326 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. He has been directed to answer the question and he 
again invoked the fifth amendment and the other reasons. 

Mr. Arens. Yon have told us about certain organizations with which 
you are identified and your pride in those organizations. I would like 
to lay before you now a reproduction of a letter, on the letterhead of 
the Conference for Legislation in the National Interest, of which the 
chairman, according to this, is Angus Cameron. The letter is signed 
by Angus Cameron, chairman of this organization. Look at the docu- 
ment and tell us whether or not you are the person identified on it as 
the Angus Cameron, working for legislation in the national interest. 

Mr. Cameron. Same answer. I decline to answer on the same three 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You are surely not ashamed of working for legislation 
in the national interest. 

]Mr. Cameron. This is not involved in the answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not 
he is the Angus Cameron who signed that letter. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. Cameron. I decline under the fifth amendment. 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit No. 4," and retained in the 
committee files.) 

]Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that, if you told this com- 
mittee truthfully under oath whether you are the Angus Cameron 
working liard for the national interest, you might be supplying infor- 
mation tliat could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Cameron. Your heavy sarcasm does not touch me in the 
slightest, by the way. I decline to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

Mr. Cameron. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

j\Ir. ]Moulder. May I ask, would your working for the national 
interests of your country incriminate you in any way ? 

Mr. Cameron. I decline to explain my answer under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I have here a photostatic copy of page 3 of the Com- 
munist Daily Worker of April 9, 1956, not quite a year ago, describing 
tliis organization, the Conference for Legislation in the National In- 
terest, of which you are chairman. "Among the legislation urged 
for adoption by Congress" was to repeal several bills, including the 
Smith Act, and apparently virtually all anti-Communist legisla- 
tion. Is that the position of this organization — that they are going to 
serve the national interest by repealing the anti-Communist legis- 
lation ? 

Mr. Cameron. "WHiat you read from the newspaper is not pertinent 
to the question. 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit No. 5,"' and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. What is the position of the Conference on Legislation 
in the National Interest. 

Mr. Cameron. I don't Iciiow. You read it. 

Mr. Arens. What is the position of the Conference for legislation 
in the National Interest with respect to the Smith Act? 

Mr. Cameron. Let me explain something to you. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 327 

Mr. Moulder, Let us liave order. 

Mr. Cameron. I don't have the slightest intention of disciissincr 
my politics or opinions except to say that I dissent from everythintr 
you stand for. I decline to answer the questions on the three fjromids, 
as a man, because it is beneath my dignity to answer such a question 
to you, under the first amendment, because I think the whole proceed- 
ing is an attempt to intimidate people against buying books we pub- 
lish and distribute, and under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. We are against those who want to overthrow the Gov- 
ernment of the United States by force and violence. Do you want to 
take issue with that position ? 

Mr. Cameron. Let me explain to you that there is a difference of 
opinion about that, too. I think you are engaged in the practice of 
overthrowing the Government by force and violence. You are using 
force and violence to haul me up here. You stand for everything 
that this Government does not stand for. You have flouted the Bill 
of Rights constantly. The committee's whole record is such. In my 
opinion as an American citizen, which is equally as good as yours is 
as an American citizen, you are attempting to overthrow the Govern- 
ment by force and violence. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken an oath of allegiance to the Gov- 
ernment of the United States? 

Mr. Cameron. I am loyal and more than you are. 

Mr. Arens. Have yon ever belonged to an organization dedicated 
to the overthrow of this Government by force and violence? 

Mr. Cameron. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong, or have you ever belonged, to the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Cameron. I decline to answer the question on the grounds I 
gave before. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

Mr. Cameron. I decline. 

Mr. Moulder. How were you by force and violence compelled to 
come here ? 

Mr. Cameron. If I had wanted to do what I wanted to do — to 
flout the authority of this committee — I would have been hauled in by 
the marshal. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. 

Mr. Scherer. You would not have been hauled in. You would 
have been cited for contempt. 

Mr. Cameron. I did not know that. I thought I might have been 
hauled in by the marshal. Then there is force and violence after the 
contempt. 

Mr. Scherer. lender due process by an order of court under the 
laws of this country. 

Mr. Arens. If you are a loyal American, would yon now evidence 
your loyality by telling a committee of the Congress, duly authorized 
by the Congress, the names of persons known by you to be members 
of the Communist conspiracy? 

" Mr. Cameron. It is a contemptible question. Of course I won't. 
I won't on the grounds as a man, and on the grounds of the first 
amendment and on the iri'ounds of the fifth amendment. 



328 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask a question? Do you know any persons 
who are members of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Cameron. Let me explain. I have to be badgered by this 
committee, but I do not intend to be entrapped by this committee. 

Mr. Moulder. I am not attempting to entrap you. 

Mr. Cameron. This committee has no other intention than to do 
that in all of its proceedings, in my opinion. That is my opinion. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you know of any person 

Mr. Cameron. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask you to direct the witness. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed. 

Mr. Cameron. I decline. 

Mr. Arens. You have given your opinion of the committee. Would 
you care to give your opinion of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cameron. JsTo, I would not. 

Mr. Arens. Now, we would like to display to you a photostatic 
reproduction of a Call to a National Conference on American Policy 
in China and the Far East. A number of people are sponsoring 
this, including a person identified here as "Angus Cameron, editor 
in chief. Little Brown & Co." Have you ever been the editor in chief 
of Little Brown & Co. ? 

Mr. Cameron. I have. 

Mr. Arens. Please look at this document and tell us while you are 
under oath whether or not you recall your identification with that 
organization. 

Mr. Cameron. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Yes what? 

Mr. Cameron. The answer to your question is "Yes." 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit No. 6," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Yes ; that you recall. Were you treasurer of the Na- 
tional Wallace for President Committee? 

Mr. Cameron. I was. Is there anything against being treasiu^er of 
a political party before this committee? 

Mr. Arens. No, but it is just of interest to the Government of the 
United States to know whether or not Communists do participate in 
those organizations and are identifiable as such. 

Now we would like to display to you a photostatic reproduction of 
a document, American Sponsoring Committee, World Congress for 
Peace, in which a number of people are listed as sponsors of that 
group, including Angus Cameron. Kindly look at that document. 

Mr. Cameron. I don't remember, but if I had been asked I think 
I would have been a member of that committee. 

(Document marked "Cameron Exhibit No. 7," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I now displav to you a ]:>hotostatic reproduction of a 
letter of the National Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill. That is 
the bill which subsequently became the Internal Security Act against 
the Communists. 

Mr, Cameron. Against the Communists? It became the Internal 
Security Act against all of us. 

Mr. Arens. Against the Communists. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 329 

Mr. Cajikrox. Xever mind aaainst the. Communists. That is not 
my opinion. When you state the question, 1 want to object an opinion. 

Mr. Arens. That is your opinion. 

Mr. Cameron. Yes; that is right. 

Mr. Arens. Now, we have Angus Cameron listed as one of the spon- 
soi-s of the [National] Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill. Do you 
recall that ? 

Mr. Cameron. I certainly imagine I was connected with it because 
I was certainly in favor of defeating the, Mundt bill. 

(Document marked '"Cameron Exhibit No. 8,"' and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Did that position of yours stem from any position you 
had within the conspiracy against the bill? 

Mr. Ca]V[eron. It stems from the same position that causes all kinds 
of people to oppose this bill, as you well know. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any connection at all, be it ever so remote, 
between your position against the Mundt bill and any connection you 
may have had with the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Caivieron. My position against the Mundt bill is as a man and 
citizen of this country. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the sole and exclusive motivation you had 
to oppose the Mundt bill, because you were a citizen and a man? 

Mr. Camfj^on. All the actions I take are based on that. All of my 
actions are based on that, unlike yours. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wasn't your opposition to the Mundt bill because 
of the fact that you might be convicted some day because you were 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cameron. I don't oppose bills out of fear for mj^self. I oppose 
bills out of fear 

Mr. Moulder. All the documents referred to by counsel will be 
admitted in evidence and made a part of the record. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Rose Baron, kindly come forward. Please remain 
standing while the chairman administers an oath to 3^ou. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which 
you give to this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Miss Baron. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROSE BARON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, DAVID M. 

• FREEDMAN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
l^ation. 

Miss Baron. Rose Baron, B-a-r-o-n, 153 East 13th Street ; I am the 
owner of a bookshop. 

Mr. Arens. Is it Miss or Mrs. Baron ? 

Miss Baron. Miss. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing in response to a subpena served 
upon you by the House Un-American Activities Committee? 



330 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Miss Baron". Yes, sir. 

Mr, Arens, You are represented by counsel ? 

Miss Baron. Yes. 

Mr. Freedman. David Freedman, 320 Broadway, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Miss Baron, where were you born ? 

Miss Baron. In Russia. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently a citizen of the United States? 

Miss Baron. I am. 

Mr. Arens. By what device did you become a citizen of the United 
States? By derivation or naturalization? 

Miss Baron. By naturalization. 

Mr. Arens. "WHien and where were you naturalized? 

Miss Baron. In the Old Post Office Building. 

Mr. Arens. When ? 

Miss Baron. 1928. 

Ml". Arens. With what firm are you connected? You said you 
were in the book business. 

Miss Baron. The bookstore is my own. I am the owner of it. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the store? 

Miss Baron. Workers Book Shop. 

Mr. Arens. Do you own the entire establishment ? 

Miss Baron. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you owned this establishment ? 

Miss Baron. Since 1951. 

Mr. Arens. Where is it located ? 

Miss Baron. On 50 East 13th Street. 

Mr. Arens. I didn't get that. 

Miss Baron. 50 East 13th Street, is that clear? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Are you a Connnunist? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answer this question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of John Lautner ? 

Miss Baron. I heard of a stoolpigeon by the name of John Lautner. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner yesterday took an oath before this com- 
mittee and laid himself open for perjury action if he lied. While he 
was under oath, he said he knew you as a Communist. Mr. Lautner, 
stand up right there, please. Look at this man. Did he lie or did 
he tell the truth when he swore yesterday that he knew you as a 
(^ommunist? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answer this question 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Miss Baron. Because I am taking the fifth amendment, which gives 
me the right not to incriminate myself. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of your establishment again; the 
Workers Book Shop ? 

Miss Baron. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is the Workers Book Shop a successor to the New York 
Workers Book Shop ? 

Miss Baron. I don't know of any New York Workers Book Shop. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any connection between your company and 
llie New York Workers Book Shop ? 

Miss Baron. No connection at all. 

Mr. Arens. What is the address of your company ? 



COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IX THE UNITED STATES 331 

Miss Baron. 50 East 13th Street. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a reproduction of a bulletin issued from 
50 East 13th Street, New York City, by the Workers Book Shops in 
which, according to the bulletin, a guide has been compiled to help 
workers, students, and intellect u.ils" find their way to conmiunism. 
Eook at this document and see if that refreshes your recollection with 
reference to any of your publications. 

Miss Baron. I never saw it b(^fore. This is the first time I see tliis. 

(Document marked, ''Baron Exhibit Xo. l,'* and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of William Z. Foster? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. I have here a reproduction of an article by William 
Z. Foster (Political Aifairs, September 195"2), in which AVilliam Z. 
Foster tells about a number of the outstanding pioneer women Com- 
munists, and he lists Mother Bloor and a number of ladies, including 
one Rose Baron, as one of the outstanding pioneer women Communists. 
Look at that article, as Mr. Jones lays it before you, and see if you 
can tell this committee whether or not William Z. Foster was mistaken, 
or whether or not he was a stool pigeon, when he identified you as an 
outstanding Communist. 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answer this question. 

(Document marked "Baron Exhibit Xo. 2," ajid retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Was Foster a stoolpigeon like Lautner when he iden- 
tified you as a Communist, or was Foster being truthful in that 
instance ? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Moulder. Sta.te your reasons for refusing to answer. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. I have a reproduction of a letterhead of the Inter- 
national Labor Defense, which has been repeatedly found by Govern- 
ment agencies to be an arm of the Communist conspiracy, and on this 
letterhead appears the name of Rose Baron, national prisoners relief 
director. Please look at that Icttei'liead and see if you are accurately 
described there. 

Miss Baron. I decline to answer this question because it may in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you the person referred to in the document handed 
to you by Mr. Jones, one of the investigators of the conmiittee? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to ajiswer. 

Mr. Arens. And for what reason I 

Miss Baron. For the reason it may incriminate me. 

(Document marked ''Baron Exhibit Xo. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Are you the sole owner of this Workers Book Shop? 
' Miss Baron. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. When did you procure it? ' ■ ^ ' ' 

Miss Baron. I took over the store in 1951. 

Mr. Arens. What was the name of the store when you took it over ? 

Miss Baron. The same name. 

Mr. Arens. From wdiom did you purchase it? 

Miss Baron. From the Wliolesale Book Corp. 



332 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Arens. From whom did you buy it ? 

Miss Baron. From a man there by the name of Kress. 

Mr. Arens. What was his first name ? 

Miss Baron. Irving. 

Mr. Arens. How much did yon pay for it ? 

Miss Barojn . I didn't pay cash. The debts of the store at that time 
were $5,000, and the store, according to inventory, was approximately 
the same amount. So I took over the store with the debts and I paid 
it out since then. 

Mr. Arens. What is the approximate aggregate business of the 
store per year ? 

Miss Baron. About $12,000 lately. It was much more before, but 
lately it is less. 

Mr. Arens. Do you sell anything these besides books ? 

Miss Baron. Books and periodicals ; nothing else. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have Communist books there ? 

Miss Baron. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where do you get those Communist books? 

Miss Baron. From publishers. 

Mr. Arens. What publishers ? 

Miss Baron. The International Publishers, the New Century. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Angus Cameron ? 

Miss Baron. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Do those firms that you have just described publish 
Communist books ? 

Miss Baron. I don't know what they publish. I know what I get 
from them. 

Mr. Arens. Do you get any books from the Soviet Union? 

Miss Baron. Yes ; I do. Not direct from the Soviet Union ; I buy 
them here. 

Mr. Arens. How do you get the books that come from the Soviet 
Union ? 

Miss Baron. I buy them from the publishers. 

Mr. Arens. Who runs that organization ? 

Miss Baron. Margaret Krumbein. 

Mr. Moulder. How do you spell that ? 

Miss Baron. K-r-u-m-b-e-i-n. 

Mr. Arens. She is in tlie room now, isn't she ? 

Miss Baron. I think she is. 

Mr. Arens. She is here, isn't she? 

Miss Baron. I think so. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know her ? 

Miss Baron. I deal with her. I have to know her. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not she is a Communist? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answer this question. 

Mr. Arens. We want to lay before you 2 or 3 publications from 
the Soviet Union, and tell us, first of all, are you registered under the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act ? 

Miss Baron. I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Is your firm registered under the Foreign Agents Regis- 
tration Act ? 

Miss Baron. No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you sell those publications ? 

Miss Baron. Yes, I do. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 333 

Mr. Arexs. Look at those publications. Mr. Jones of this staff 
bought those publications at your store the other day. 

Miss Baron. Yes; I am selling them. 

Mr. Arens. Look and see if you see any place where those publica- 
tions are Libeled ''Connnunist publications" in accordance with the 
provisions of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. 

Miss Baron. I have no idea. I have no time to look through all 
the publications and see what is inside. 

Mr, Arens. Where did you get those publications? 

Miss Baron. I got them from the Imported Publications. 

Mr. Arens. Do you get them regularly from them ? 

Miss Baron, Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What other publications do you get from them? 

Miss Baron, Soviet Women, Soviet Literature, International News, 
International Affairs, and New Times. 

Mr. Moulder. Let us go back to the magazines. I don't believe all 
the questions were asked that should have been asked the witness 
concerning the magazines. 

First, counsel asked you if the magazines which you saw and were 
handed to you were labeled in accordance with the provisions of the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act, 

Miss Baron, I don't know what you mean by label. 

Mr, Moulder. Can you look at the magazines and tell whether or 
not they are labeled in accordance with the Foreign Agents Registra- 
tion Act ? 

Miss Baron, I have no idea, I don't know what you mean by it. 

Mr. Moulder. I think that should be clear in the record, do you 
know whether or not Mr. Jones bought those magazines from you 
which he handed to you a moment ago ? 

Miss Baron, Whether he bought it? 

Mr. Moulder, Yes. 

Miss Baron. I don't know, I can't remember the face of every 
customer that comes into the store, 

Mr. Moulder. Go ahead. 

Mr. Sciierer. The fact is that they are not labeled. 

Mr. Arens. I don't think we need to get into that any more. 

Now I want to display to you a book which Mr. Jones bought in 
your store the other day and see if you recognize that book. It is 
New Data for V. I. I^nin's "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of 
Capitalism.'' According to the face of the book it was published by 
New^ York International Publishers. Look at that book and see if 
you recall that being one of the publications that you sell. 

Miss Baron. Yes. 

(Document marked "Baron Exhibit No. 4," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you procure it from New York Publications? 

Miss Baron, l^^iat is that ? 

Mr. Arens. International Publishers. Did you procui-e that from 
them? .1 

Miss Baron, Yes, 

Mr. Arens. Do you see it labeled any place as Communist propa- 
ganda ? 

Miss Baron. No. I haven't got any books that are labeled "Com- 
munist publications," 



334 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. You say you don't liave or sell any books or publica- 
tions that are so labeled ? 

Miss Baron. What is that? I didn't get the question. 

Mr. Moulder. As I understood you to say, you do not have in your 
possession nor do you sell any books or publications that are labeled 
as Communist propaganda. 

Miss Baron. To my knowledge, I haven't got any of those books. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you sold books or periodicals or pub- 
lications emanating from the Soviet Union ? 

Miss Baron. Since I have the store, about 6 or 7 years. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever, in the course of your experience selling- 
books and publications from the Soviet Union, ever seen a single 
copy which had marked on it "This is a Communist publication?" 

Miss Baron. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever seen a single publication emanating from 
the Soviet Union which was marked pursuant to the provisions of the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act ? 

Miss Baron. No. I would like to see if there is any label like this. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Jones will display to you, pursuant to your request, 
one publication we procured from the Department of Justice show^ing 
the way it is supposed to be marked pursuant to the provisions of the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act. 

Miss Baron. It is supposed to be marked ? I never saw it. This is 
the first time I see it. 

Mr. Arens. You have never seen that before? 

Miss Baron. No. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that w^ould con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. All of the documents referred to by counsel and 
exhibited to the witness will be admitted in evidence and made a part 
of the record. 

Mr. Moulder. You used the expression "stool pigeon." Can you 
tell me what you mean by those words ? 

Miss Baron. He was saying lies about people. 

Mr. JMouLDER. A person who does w'hat ? 

Miss Baron. ^Yhiit is that ? 

Mr. Moulder. What did you mean by a stool pigeon ? 

Miss Baron. A person that tells lies about people. 

Mr. Scherer. You referred to Mr. Lautner when you said that he 
was a stool pigeon ; didn't you ? 

Miss Baron. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Scherer. Did he lie about you when he said you were a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Baron. I refuse to answ^er. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. You may claim your witness 
fee with Mr. Jones here, who is acting as clerk for the committee. 

Mr. Arens. Will Margaret Cowl kindly come forward. Margaret 
Cowl Krumbein, I believe is the full name. Please remain standing- 
while the chairman administers an oath to you. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you shall 
give this committee to tell the tnith, the whole trurth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I do. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 335 

TESTIMONY OF MES. MAEGARET COWL KRUMBEIN, ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, DAVID FREEDMAN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mrs. Krumbein. My name is Margaret Cowl. I am self-employed» 

Mr. Arexs. Do 3"ou know the lady who just preceded you to the wit- 
ness stand t 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes ; I know her. 

Mr. Arexs. How long have you known her ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I don't know. For a number of years, I guess. 

Mr. Moulder. What is her name for the record ? ' 

Mrs. Krumbein. Rose Baron. 

Mr. Arexs. Have you ever served in a Communist Party meeting 
with her ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I think you should withdraw that question. It has 
nothing in relation to this inquiry. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. For what reason ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbeix'^. I will not answer this question because it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Moulder. Do I understand you are invoking the protection 
under the fifth amendment ? 

Mrs. Krumbein'. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
served upon vou by the House Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties? 

Mrs. Krumbein. That is right. 

Mr. Arexs. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Freedmax'. David Freedman, 320 Broadway, New York City.. 

Mr. Arexs. What is the name of the firm with which you are 
identified I 

Mrs. Krumbeix. Imported Publications and Products. 

Mr. Arex-^s. What is your connection with the firm ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I am the owner. 

Mr. Arexs. How long have you owned it \ 

Mrs. Krumbeix'. Since 1950. 

Mr. Arexs. Where is it located? 

Mrs. Krumbein. 40 West 16th. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you a registered agent under the Foreign Agents 
Registration Act? 

Mrs. Krumbeix. I am not an agent for anybody. 

Mr. Arexs. Is Imported Publications and Products a registered 
agent ? 

Mrs. KRu:\rBEix\ I am the owner of Imported Publications and 
Products and am an agent for nobody or anything. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you registered under the act referred to? 

Mr. Arexs. Have j'ou ever registered under the Foreign Agents 
Registration Act? 



336 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mrs. Krumbein. I am registered under the Foreign Agents Regis- 
tration Act to do business with certain foreign principals. 

Mr. Arens. What are those foreign principals with whom you do 
business ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Certain firms in given countries registered as 
other firms. 

Mr. Arens. What countries are they and what firms ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. One is in the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Arens. '\^^iat is that firm ? "Wliat does it do ? What does it 
sell? 

Mrs. Krumbein. The Mezhdunarodnaja Kniga. It imports books 
and publications and art works. 

Mr. Arexs. How long have you had a contractual arrangement 
with that firm in the Soviet Union ? 

Mrs, Krumbein. Approximately 1951. 

Mr, Arexs. And tell us how you happened to make that contact 
with the Soviet Union book company there. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I saw the name of this firm in a few publications 
as a distributing firm in the Soviet Union and I wrote and asked 
them if they would send me books to sell in this country. 

Mr. Arens. How much material do you receive from them in a year, 
or every year, approximately? 

Mrs. Krumbein. You mean in dollars? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Any way you can characterize it or appraise it for 
us. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein, It is in the neighborhood of $8,000 a year. 

Mr. Arens, $8,000 worth a year ? 

Mrs, Krumbein. Yes, approximately. 

Mr. Arens. And are there other firms in Soviet Russia with which 
you do business? 

Mrs. Krumbein. No. 

Mr. Arens. What other countries abroad do you have contractual 
arrangements in? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I have no contract with anybody. 

Mr. Arens. That you do business with ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. With a firm in England. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of that firm ? 

Mrs. Krumbein, Central Books. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any arrangements with any firm in any 
other so-called Soviet bloc countries? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Which countries are you referring to? 

Mr. Arens. Let us start with Red China, Do you import any books 
from Red China ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel,) 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes. From the Chinese Peoples Republic I do 
import publications. 

Mr. Arens. That is Red China. 

Mrs. Krumbein. And books. 

Mr. Arens. What do you import from Red China? 

Mrs. Krumbein. From the Peoples Republic of China I import 
books and publications and art works, an awful lot of art work. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IN THE UNITED STATES 337 

Mr. Arexs. "\'\niere is the firm with which you have arranjrenients in 
Red China ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Peking. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the firm ? 

Mrs. KJRUsiBEiN. Guozi Shudian. 

^Ir. ^Vrens. "What is the vohime of the importations that you make 
from Eed China? 

Mrs. Krumbein. We have a United States of America license to 
import from China, and there are periods in which we import nothing. 
But there are periods, as long as the license lasts, we import of 1 
periodical 100 copies; 1, 50 copies; some pamphlets, 10 copies. I 
would have to look up the records to give you the total. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you do any importing from Formosa ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you label the material that you sell ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes. 

^Ir. Arens. Pursuant to the provisions of the Foreign Agents Reg- 
istration Act? 

Mrs. Krumbein. We label every shipment. 

Mr. Arens. We want to display to you a magazine 

Mrs. Krumbein. I want to consult with my counsel. 

Mr, Arens. Go right ahead and consult with him. ^- 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. You may proceed with the question. 

Mr. Arens. We want to display to you a magazine, Soviet Union, 
(No. 1, 1957) which Mr. Jones of our staff bought at your place the 
other day. Do you sell that publication? 

(Document marked "Krumbein Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes ; we sell this publication. We sell the Soviet 
Union. I don't know whether it is this particular copy. We sell 
Soviet Union. 

iMr. Arens. Do you stamp them as Communist propaganda before 
vou sell them? 

Mrs. Krumbein. We use the label as we have arranged with the 
Foreign Agents Registration for every shipment which is interstate. 
Every shipment that is sent out of New York State. 

Mr. Arens. But you don't label the material you disseminate within 
New York State, is that correct? 

Mrs. Krumbein. We do generally, but we are not required under 
the Foreign Agents Registration Act to label anything but shipments 
that are interstate commerce. 

Mr. Arens. Do 3'ou sell material to the Workers Book Shop, of 
which Rose Baron is proprietor? 

Mrs. Kru^hbein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you label the material that you sell to her prior to 
the time that you sell it ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. I answered that question. Sometimes we do put 
the label and sometimes we don't. 

Mr. Arens. Why not? 

Mrs. Kjiumbein. It is not a legal requirement to put in labels in such 
shipments that are not interstate commerce. : * ■ 

90121— 57— pt. 5 7 



338 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. You mean that are not interstate ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Shipments coming from a foreign country into the 
State of New York is interstate, isn't it ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. No. Anything that we send out from New York 
we use the label, and every copy is taken care of with the label. 

Mr. Moulder. Under the decision of the courts, as I understand 
the purpose of the act, shipments coming from foreign countries into 
States or from one State to another are considered interstate ship- 
ments. 

Mrs. Krumbein. Mr. Moulder, we went to Washington before we 
started this business, and we had discussion with the Foreign Agents 
Registration section to find out just how we would legally carry out 
all the necessary legal requirements. 

Mr. Mouijder. Do you know who those persons were ? 

Mi-s. Krumbein. No; I don't know the names of the people. 

Mr. Arens. Who went besides you ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. My attorney went. 

Mr. Arens. The gentleman who is seated beside you now? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. From what other countries do you import this Com- 
munist material ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I don't import. What do you mean by Commu- 
nist material^ Do you mean pamphlets like Painless Childbii-th 
that we import? 

Mr. Arens. From what other Iron Curtain countries do you import 
books, publications, and so forth? 

Mrs. Krumbein. We import dictionaries from Hungary. 

Mr. Arens. Do you import any other publications from Hungary \ 

Mrs. Krltmbein. No. 

Mr. Arens. What tirm do you have ari-angements with in Hungary ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I will give you the name. I don't remember it 
now. It is on file in my office. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another Connnunist controlled countiy from 
wliicli you import publications? 

(The M'itness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. I don't know what you mean. You must give 
me names of specific countries. 

Mr. Arens, What other Iron Curtain countries ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. What countries are you referring to ? 

Mr. Arens. Let us go right down the list. 

Czechoslovakia. 

Mi's. Krumbein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Rumania. 

]\Irs. Kri^mbein. Not at the present time. 

Mr. Arens. You told us about Plungary. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I want to also say that we import dictionaries and 
19th century productions of art works, cookbooks. 

Mr. Arens. Yugoslavia. 

Mrs. Krumbein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have contractual arrangements with any Com- 
munist controlled organizations in non-Communist countries for the 
purpose of importing their publications? 



C0M]\1UXIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 339 

Mrs. Krumbp:ix. Unless you name organizations, I don't know what 
3'ou are referring to. I don't understand you. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you know a man by the name of William Z. Foster? 
(The Avitness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mi's. Krumbeix. I can't answer that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask you to direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. MouLDE'R. The Avitness is directed to answer. 

Mr. Krumbeix. On the grounds that I already gaA^e. 

Mr. MouuoER. Ask the question again. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you know William Z. Foster ? 

Mr. Freedmax'. She ansAvered that. 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer. 

Mrs. Krumbeix". I did say I refuse to answer. I don't think it has 
any relation to the purpose of this inquiry in comiection with the 
business I am in. 

Mr. Moulder. Again 3^011 are directed to answer and, in so directing, 
it is not in the spirit of a threat but to advise you of the possible 
dangers of contempt. 

Mrs. Krumbeix. All right, I am forced to say it. I will not answer 
it on tlie basis that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arexs. I don't think I got tlie record clear on your name. Are 
you ]Miss or Mrs. ? 

Mrs. Krumbeix^. Mrs. 

Mr. Arexs. What is your married name? 

]Mrs. Krumbeix^. Mrs. Margaret CoavI Krumbein. 

Mrs. Arex^s. Your single name AA-as Margaret Cowl, is that correct? 

Mrs. Krumbeix^. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. According to an article (Political Affairs, September 
1952) which William Z. Foster wrote about the formation of the 
Communist Party in the United States, he names here a number of 
Avomen Avhom he describes as the outstanding pioneer women Com- 
munists, including the lady that just preceded you to the stand. Rose 
Baron, and yourself, Margaret Krumbein. Look at that article and 
tell us AA'hether or not Foster Avas a stool pigeon and Avhether or not 
he lied AAdien he identified you in that article as one of the outstanding 
Avomen Communists. 

Mrs. Kru:>ibeix\ I can't answer that question on the same groimds, 
that I preA'iously gaA'e. 

(Document marked "Krumbein Exhibit No. 2", and retained in 
committee files.) 

]\Ir. Arex's. I AA'ant to see if you AAere a stool pigeon against your- 
self. We haA'e here a reproduction of an article Women on the March ^ 
"Women Comrades — What Is Your AnsA\er ?"' This article is AA'ritten 
l)y a Avoman by tlie name of Margaret ( 'oavI. Look at that and tell this 
connnitte Avhile you are under oath AAhether or not you are a stool- 
pigeon against yourself. 

Mr. Moulder. Don't you think you should reframe that question 
and ask her Avhether or not she is the Margaret CoaaI referred to in 
this article ? 

Mr. Arexs. Were you the Margaret CoaaI referred to in the article ? 
Did you author the article ? 

Mrs. Krumbeix. Pardon me. I Avant to consult. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 



340 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 

Mrs. Krumbein. I do not answer this question for the same reasons 
I gave before. 

Mr. Arens. This article authored b}^ Margaret Cowl talks about "Us 
Communists," about "we women Comrades," "we women Communists" 
and the like. Was the author of that defaming you when she identi- 
fied you here as one of the comrades? 
(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. I do not answer the question based on the same 
reason I gave previously. I think that these repetitious questions 
have nothing to do with the purpose of this inquiry at all. By the 
way, was I called here to find out what kind of books I sell and how 
much I sell, what countries I sell these books from ? I was under the 
hnpression that is why I came here. 

(Document marked "Krumbein Exhibit Xo. 3,'" and retained in 
committee files. ) 

Mr. Arens. Does it occur to you that it might be of interest to the 
security of this country to ascertain whether or not Communist-identi- 
fied members of the conspiratorial apparatus of the international Com- 
munist movement are pumping poison into this country in violation of 
the Foreign Agents Registration Act ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. You could read the books and find out. I don't 
sell any such books. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a Communist ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. It is exaggerating about the political essence of 
these books. 

Mr. Arens. We don't want to get into that. Let us start with the 
first question. Are you a Communist? Let us get that settled first 
and then we will go from there. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I don't answer that (question for the same reasons 
I gave previously. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know John Lautner ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I don't answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. John Lautner took an oath yesterday- and said you were 
a Communist. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I don't answer the question for the same reasons 
I gave before. 

Mr. Arens. I want to lay before you still another document. "^A^iat 
To Study at the Workers School," a photostatic reproduction of the 
bulletin of the Workers School (Fall Term, 1942), in which they list 
a number of special courses. One of the special courses is Women in 
the People's War by Margaret Cowl. Tell us whether or not you were 
the instructor in that school. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I am not answering these questions because there 
was a reference here before to open doors in reference to a witness. I 
am not going to walk into any doors with traps. 

Mr. Arens. Look at this article. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I heard the question. I am not answering the 
question for reasons I previously gave. 

Mr. Moulder. Let us have the record show now, are you examining 
the article 

Mrs. Krumbein. I heard the question. 

Mr. Moulder. That has been handed you by Mr. Jones? Do you 
refuse to examine it ? 



COlNIMrXIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 341 

Mrs. Krumbein. Yes ; I see it. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you honestly fear if you told this committee truth- 
fully whether or not you were the lecturer there on the Women in the 
People's War, you would be supplying information that might be used 
against you in a criminal proceedmg? 

Mrs. Krumbein. That is the same question in another fonn and I 
refuse to answer it for reasons I already gave. 

(Document marked "Krumbein Exhibit No. 4," and retained in 
committee files. ) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you still another document, a photostatic 
copy of the Communist Daily Worker back in 1935 (Xovember 22, 
1935, p. 2), in which they tell about the meeting of the Central Com- 
mittee of the Communist Party. In this document they list a number 
of people who are organizers, workers and leaders of the Commu- 
nist Party who are going to have this meeting. Look at this doc- 
ument and tell us, if you can help this committee, if you are the 
Margaret Cowl, C-o-w-1, listed there as one of the leaders who is 
going to convene with the Communist conspiracy and work for the 
uplift of humanity. 

(Document marked "Krumbein Exhibit No. 5," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. The answer is the same. It is the same question. 
I refuse to answer for the reasons I already gave. 

Mr. Arens. Have you run on the Communist Party ticket for public 
office? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein, I do not answer for the reasons I already gave. 

Mr. Arens. I have here a photostatic copy of an article entitled, 
"How To Vote on Election Day," in the Daily Worker back in 1936 
(November 3, 1936, issue, p. 4), in which are set forth the Communist 
Party candidates; and one Margaret Cowl is listed here I'unning for 
State senator on the Communist Party ticket. Look at that and tell 
us whether or not you are she. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Krumbein. I do not answer for the same reasons I already 
gave. 

(Document marked "Krumbein Exhibit No. 6," and retained in 
committee files. ) 

Mr. Arens. Would you identify' your photograph for us? We 
have here one of your photoghaphs appearing in the Daily Worker 
(March 10, 1937, p. 6), in Avhich you are shown here getting ready to 
address a mass meeting at the Manhattan Opei'a House in New York, 
You are in company, according to this article, with other leaders of 
the Communist Party and you are identified here as ^Margaret Cowl, 
chairman of the Women's Commission of the Communist Party. Look 
at that article and tell us whether or not you are accurately described 
and whether or not that is your photograph. 

Mrs. Krumbein. I think you ought to withdraw this question be- 
cause it has no relation to the business I am in 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

Mrs. Krumbein (continuing). And the information you are seek- 
ing. 



342 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer tlie question. 

Mrs. Krumbeix. All right, I decline to answer for the reasons I 
already gave. 

(Document marked ''Krumbein Exhibit No. 7," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. All documents referred to by counsel and handed 
to the witness will be admitted as part of the record. 

Mrs. Krumbein. ]\Ir. Chairman, I want to say something. I resent 
and I want to protest and challenge the statement that I am distribut- 
ing any kind of literature as inferred by the questioner here that is 
not in the interests of the United States. I want to defend the clientele 
who buys from me. I have here official formal orders for you to see 
who this clientele is and the purpose for which they buy this material 
and the kind of material we distribute. 

If we make a contribution to women of this country for them to give 
birth to babies more painlessly, I think I am doing a wonderful thing 
in the interest of the United States and the American people. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think you would be doing a wonderful thing 
if you distributed Comminiist propaganda in violation of the Foreign 
Agents Registration Act? 

Mrs. Krumbein. I am not violating that act. 

Mr. Arens. Let us take the first part of the question. Do you dis- 
tribute Communist propaganda? 

Mrs. Krumbein. We sell books and literature ; and every book and 
every little thing — whether it is artwork, whether it is a publication 
or a book or pamphlet — that we get is passed by customs. Anything 
that is not passed by customs, I could not get. Also, a copy is sent 
to the Foreign Agents Registration Section for them. They have 
l)robably a wonderful big library there of everything we sent in. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you think by being a member of the Communist 
Party, if you are a member of the Communist Party, and actively so, 
that vou would be promoting the welfare and securitv of the United 
States? ^ 

Mrs. Krumbein. What has that to do with my business in selling 
books ? 

Mr. Moulder. Answer my question. 

Mrs. Krumbein. It has nothing to do with this inquiry. "Wliat 
has it got to do with it? 

Mr. Moulder. Will you answer the question ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. No; I will not answer that question because I 
think it has nothing to do 

Mr. Moulder. Why do you decline to answer the question? 

Mrs. Krumbein. For reasons I already gave. 

Mr. Moulder. And that was claiming the privilege under the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution ? 

Airs. Krumbein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you born ? 

Mrs. Krumbein. Bi-ooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused and 5^011 may claim your wit- 
ness fee with Mr. Jones, who is acting clerk for the committee. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 343 

The committee will stand in recess until 2 p. m. 
(Whereupon, the committee was recessed, to reconvene at 2 p. m. 
the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— WEDNESDAY, MARCH 13, 1957 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

(Committee members present: Representatives Moulder and 
Scherer.) 

Mr. Arens. Mv. Sol Auerbach, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Allex. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES S. ALLEN (SOL AUERBACH), ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, HARRY SACHER 

Mr. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Allex". James S. Allen. INIy given name is Sol Auerbaoh. I 
live at 1-34: West Hudson Street, Long Beach. 

Mr. Arexs. Your occupation? 

Mr. Allex. I am a writer and editor. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you prefer to have me call you Allen ? 

Mr. Allex. That is the way I am generally known. 

Mr. Arexs. You appear in response to a subpena served upon you 
by tlie House Committee on Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. Allex. I do. 

Mr. Arex^s. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mr. Allex. I am. 

Mr. Arexs. Kindly identify yourself on this record. 

Mr. Sacher. Harry Sacher, 342 Madison Avenue, New York IT. 

Mr. Arexs. Where were you born, Mr. Allen? 

Mr. Allex. Philadelphia, Pa. 

Mr. Arexs. With what firm are you connected? 

Mr. Allex. I will decline to answer that question and state my 
grounds for doing so. I decline and invoke the privileges which I 
liave under both the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well ; proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Allex. I am not complete in making my statement, sir. I 
would like to explain why I invoke any privileges under these 
amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. That is not necessary. 

Mr. Allex. I consider the mere act that I and others are called an 
invasion of the ground that is specifically protected by the first amend- 
ment, guaranteeing tlie freedom of publication and the freedom to 
read. 

Mr. Arex-s. Where are you employed ? 

Mr. Allex. I have said I will decline to answer that question, and 
I am explaining Avhy I am not answering the question. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you a publisher? 



344 COMIVIUNIST PROPAGANDA EST THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Sacher. Mr, Chairman, I think the witness should be per- 
mitted to state his reasons. 

]\Ir. IMouLDER. He has taken the privilege under the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Sacher. He should be permitted, briefly, to explain. 

jNIr. Moulder. He should not be permitted to make a speech. 

Mr. Aleen. I don't want to make a speech. Mr. Chairman, may I 
hare the courtesy of the committee ? 

Mr. Moulder. How much time will it require ? 

Mr. Allex. No more than a few minutes. 

Mr. Moulder. Let us be more accurate than that. Would you say 
2 or 3 minutes ? 

Mr. Allex. It will take longer than that. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. 

INIr. Attetst. I consider this action of the committee is an invasion 
of this ground which is protected by the first amendment, and that 
it applies to all publishing, not only the specific writers, publishers, 
and publications that you have called to appear before you. It is that, 
and it is more than that. It is depriving the people of the freedom 
to read, with respect to the people who purchase or buy or read these 
publications. This is a distinct invasion of the amendment which 
holds a privileged position in our Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that a man who is a Communist is above 
the purview^ of congressional scrutiny with reference to his Com- 
munist activities? Is that correct? 

Mr. Allen. I feel a man who is a Communist has a right to his 
views and has a right to express them before the American people 
as a wliole without being subpenaed before committees and passed 
through a processing. 

]Mr. Arexs. Express to this committee whether or not you are a 
Commmiist. 

Mr. Allex. I have refused and I will refuse to answer that question 
on the grounds I have already stated. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Lautner? 

Mr. Allex. I refuse on the same ground. 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Lautner, will you stand up. Look over your left 
shoulder, Mr. Allen. This man standing here yesterday took an oath 
and left himself open to perjury action. He can go to jail if he lied. 
He said he knew you as a Communist. Was he Iving or was he telling 
the truth ? 

Mr. Allex. Which question do you wish me to answer? 

Mr. Arexs. Answer the question. Don't quibble with me. Was he 
lying or telling the truth when he said you were a Communist ? 

Mr. Allex. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arexs. Now we lay before you a photostatic reproduction of 
a certificate filed with the county clerk's office in New York County 
for an increase in the stock by the International Publishers Co., Inc., 
on which appear the names of the officers of that company, the Inter- 
national Publishers, including one Sol Auerbach and a signature there 
of Sol Auerbach. Please look at that signature and tell this com- 
mittee while you are under oath whether or not you are he. 

Mr. Allex. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arexs. Is that your signature appearing there as one of the 
officers of International Publishers ? 



coAcvniNriST propaganda in the united states 345 

Mr, Moulder, The witness is directed to answer unless sufficient 
reasons are given for his refusal to answer. 

Mr. Allen, I have stated my reasons and I decline on the basis 
of the first and fifth amendments. 

(Document marked "Allen Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction from the 
Communist Daily Worker of August 5, 1956 (p. 13), in which ap- 
pears your photograph, James S. Allen, identified here as a leading 
Marxist historian and political writer, contributor, and former staff 
member of the Communist Daily Worker and Sunday Worker and 
other identification. Please look at that and help this Committee 
on Un-American xlctivities by telling us if you are accurately de- 
scribed there in your various capacities. 

Mr. Allex. I will not help this committee in its objectives and I 
refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. ]\IouLDER. The witness is directed to answer. The committee 
refuses to accept your refusal and you are advised of the dangers you 
might be confronted with by being in contempt of Congress. 

Mr. Allen. I decline on the gromids I have already stated. 

(Document marked "Allen Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a copy of the Labor Defender, in 
which Sol Auerbach is identified as associate editor. Please look at 
this document and tell us whether or not you are accurately identified. 

Mr, Allen. I refuse to answer the question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

(Document marked "Allen Exliibit No. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I have here a photostatic reproduction of a letterhead 
of the American League for Peace and Democracy in which you are 
identified as a member of the executive board, James S. Allen. 
Please look at that and tell us whether or not you are accurately 
identified. 

(Document marked "Allen Exhibit No. 4." and retained in the com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Allen. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Plave you, in addition to your publishing work, been 
engaged in certain lecturing and teaching and professorial activities ? 

Mr. Allen. I will answer none of these questions on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of the 
bulletin of the Jefferson School of Social Science in which vou are 
listed here as one of tlie teachers of the Jefferson School of Social 
Science. Please look at that bulletin and tell this committee whether 
or not you are accurately identified. 

Mr. Allen. I will not answer the question on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Allen Exhibit No. 5," and retained in com-; 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. We have a photostatic reproduction of The Commu- 
nist — a little booklet called The Communist — in which James S. Allen, 
namely, yourself, is one of the writers on the "Prologue to the Libera- 
tion oif the Negro People." Please look at this document and tell us 



346 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

whether or not you are accurately described there and whether or not 
you are the author of that article. 

Mr. Allen. I decline to answer on the same grounds as stated. 

(Document marked "Allen Exhibit No. 6," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I have before me still another photostatic repreduction 
of The Communist in which James S. Allen writes an article about 
The Soviet Nations and Teheran, telling- all about the friendship 
of the Soviet Union. Please look at this article and tell us whether 
or not you are tlie author of it. 

Mr. Allen. I will not answer on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Allen Exhibit No. 7," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present place 
of employment? 

Mr. Allen. I decline to answer on the same gi'ounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. Allen. I decline to answer on the grounds already stated. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately preceding 
the present employment? 

Mr. Allen. The same reply. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. The reason for 
giving the direction is to indicate that the committee refuses to accept 
your response to the question and also advises of the dangers that 
you might be faced Avith in connection with being in contempt of 
Congress. 

Mr. Allen. I am well aware of the dangers I am confronted with 
before this committee, and I refuse to answer on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend if you told this committee 
truthfully what your emploj'ment was preceding your present em- 
ployment, you would be supplying information that might be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Allen. I decline on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask you to direct the witness to answer that question 
because the law requires he answer yes or no to that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed as requested by Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Allen. I decline to answer on the grounds provided me by the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever registered as an agent of a foreign power 
with the Department of Justice pursuant to the provisions of the 
Foreign Agents Registration Act ? 

Mr. Allen. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. It is a matter of public record. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Allex. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that would con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. You may claim your witness 
fee by signing the voucher. 



COMMUlSriST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 347 

Mr. Arens. Jessica Smith, please come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you ara 
about to give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing- but the truth, so help you God ? 

Miss Smith. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JESSICA SMITH (ABT), ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

JOSEPH FORER 

i\Ir. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Miss Smith. ]My name is Jessica Smith. M}^ married name is 
Jessica Smith Abt. My occupation is editor and writer. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Ac- 
tivities? 

Miss Smith. I am appearing in answer to that subpena and also I 
would like to say under very serious protest because I think that this 
whole investigation is an invasion of the rights of freedom of the 
press, and I would like to have you know that our magazine has no 
connection with any of the sort of thing you have been talking 
about. 

Mr. Arens. We will get into that in a moment. 

Miss Smith. I want to finish this statement because you won't 
understand anything I say unless I finish this. 

Destroying the American way of life is the farthest thing from 
any of our purpose. The purpose of our magazine is understanding 
and peace and to get rid of the threat of atomic war. If that threat 
should come through, that would be the greatest possible threat to 
the American way of life. 

Mr. Arens. We will get into that in a moment, please. 

Miss Smith, you are represented by counsel ? 

Miss Smith. This is my counsel. 

Mr. Forer. Joseph Forer of Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. To start with this question of the threat, let us start 
with tlie elemental. Are vou now^ a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Miss Smith. I nuist decline to answer this question, first of all on 
the grounds I have already indicated, that I believe this hearing is 
an invasion of the first amendment, and I stand on my rights under 
the first amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees freedom of 
speech and of press. 

Furthermore, I decline to answer on the ground of my right under 
the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Jolin Lautner? 

Miss Smith. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
I have just given. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, please stand. Mr. Lautner yesterday took 
an oath before this committee and identified 3^ou as a person known 
by him to have been a Communist. Was he Iving or telling the 
truth? 

Miss Smith. I refuse to ansAver on the grounds that I have just 
given. 



348 cojvuvruNiST propaganda est the united states 

Mr. Arexs. What is the publication with which you are identified, 
please? 

Mr. FoRER. Will the Chair permit cross-examination of Mr. Laut- 
ner? 

Mr. Moulder. Ask him to the stand again. I would like to submit 
a question. You didn't look at Mr. Lautner when Mr. Arens asked 
that you look. Do you see the gentleman standing there ? 

Miss Smith. Is it under perjury rules necessary that people look 
here and there ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, if you intend to give a response to the question 
in good faith. You would have to look to see. 

Miss Smith. I ga.ve my answer in perfectly good faith. 

Mr. Moulder. Would you look at him ? 
(The witness complied with the request.) 

Miss Smith. I decline to answer on the grounds. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you know the man standing there? 

Miss Smith. I decline to answer for the reasons that I have previ- 
ously given. 

Mr. Forer. Will you permit cross-examination, Mr. Moulder, of 
Mr. Lautner? 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. 

iNIr. Arexs. Ki]idly tells us with what publication you are identified. 

]Miss Smith. New World Review. 

Mr. Arens. In Avhat capacity are you identified with the publi- 
cation? 

Miss Smith. I am the editor. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you occupied that post? 

Miss Smith. As editor of Xew World Review, since 1951. 

Mr. Arens. What was the predecessor organization or publication 
of wliich New World Review is the successor organization? 

Miss Smith. The predecessor magazine was Soviet Russia, Today. 

Mr. Arens. Were you identified with Soviet Russia Today? 

Miss Smith. I was its editor. 

Mr. Arens. And over what period of time were you editor of Soviet 
Russia Today ? 

Miss Smith. From the spring of 1936, I believe until it became 
New World Review. 

Mr. Arens. What is the circulation of New World Review ? 

Miss Smith. You know according to law the circulation of a 
monthly publication does not have to be published. Is it required 
that you have that circulation ? 

Mr. Arens. Please answer the question. Tell us the circulation. 

Miss Smith. It is rather low at the present time. It is around 
6,500 or 7,000, something around there. It has been much higher 
in previous years. 

Mr. Arens. Who owns the present publication of which yon are 
the editor? 

Miss Smith. The publisher and owner of this publication is Mr. 
Frederick Field. 

Mr. Arens. Is that Frederick Vanderbilt Field? 

Miss Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is he the sole owner ? 

Miss_ Smith. There is a corporation of which he is the main owner. 
There is a little stock maybe held by some of the other members. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 349 

Mr. Arens. Are you on the board of directors of the National Coun- 
cil of American-Soviet Friendship? 

Miss Smith. I would decline to answer that question for the reasons 
I have already given. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now the photostatic reproductions of a 
niuuber of letterheads of the National Council of American-So\aet 
Friendship, Inc., in which you are identified as a member of the board 
of directors of that organization. 

Miss Smith. What was your question ? 

Mr. Arens. Are you accurately described here as a member of the 
board of directors of this organization? 

Miss Smith. I will decline to answer for the reasons already given. 

(Documents marked "Smith Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction, if you 
please, of an article in New Masses by yourself as editor of Soviet 
Russia Today, lauding the 25th anniversary of the Red army. Kindly 
look at that article and tell us whether or not you are accurately 
described and whether or not that is an accurate reproduction of your 
article. 

Miss Smith. This is not an article. This is a letter written to me 
about a dinner. 

Mr. Arens. You mean written by you ? 

Miss SiMiTH. Written by me about a dinner that was given at a 
time when the United States and the Soviet Union were allies during 
the war. A dinner which received congratulatory telegrams from 
people like Harry Truman and Ralph Barr and a great many Govern- 
ment officials in Wasliington. Ambassador Davies spoke. You have 
it all here. 

(Document marked "Smith Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files. ) 

Mr. Arens. It is all there. Have 3^011 changed your position with 
reference to the Red army since that occasion ? 

Miss Smith. I don't know exactly what you mean. 

Mr. Arens. You laud the Red army in that article. Have you 
changed your position since you wrote that article? 

Miss Smith. The Red army was our ally during the war 

Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt a minute ? 

Miss Smith. And made a very great contribution to the fight against 
Hitler. I don't see any reason to change my opinion about it. 

Mr. Scherer. May I interrupt ? Wouldn't you rather say that the 
Red army was a cobelligerent rather than an ally with us ? 

Miss Smith. Would 1 • 

Mr. Arens. Has your position with reference to the Red army been 
modified any because of the recent events in Hungary when segments 
of the Red army mowed down the population of that nation like wheat 
in a wheatfield i 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Smith. I think I should call your attention to the fact that this 
letter is purely an announcement. It is not lauding the Red army as 
such. 

Mr. xVrens. You told us not more than a minute ag^o your high esti- 
mate of the Red army. 



350 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Miss Smith. I was telling you the occasion on wliich this dinner 
was held. 

Mr. Arens. Now tell us whether or not you have modified your view 
with reference to the Red army since the events in Hungary. 

Miss Smith. This is a question which could not possibly be answered 
in the terms that you put it. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Miss Smith. If you Avill let me answer in my own terms perhaps I 
can explain something to you. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Smith. The only opinion that is expressed there is in relation 
to the attitude of the Red army during the World War. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us whether or not you have modified that 
opinion of the Red army. 

Miss Smith. I have not modified my opinion of the behavior of the 
Red army during the World War, which is the only question. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us what is your attitude toward the Red army's 
behavior in Hungary. 

Miss Smith. I have to tell you something more about that. I have 
to tell you that my main concern and purpose in life is to help get rid 
of all armies everywhere. This is my greatest concern in this maga- 
zine. 

Mr. Arens. Are you concerned with getting rid of the Red army 
in Hungary ? 

Miss Smith, Would you please wait and let me finish what I have 
to say? I believe the reason the Red army was in Hungary is because 
of the whole possible war, cold war situation, the same reason that our 
armies, the United States armies, are in Western Europe. I believe 
that the United States Army should Avithdraw from every country 
where it is and I believe that the Red army should withdraw from 
countries where it is staying outside of its borders. This is a policy 
Avhich a great many people are advocating today and which I think 
is the most important point for us to concentrate on, getting all armies 
awa}^ from other lands. 

Mr. Arens. Did you do any concentrating on the point of getting 
the Red army out of Hungary when it was in there mowing down 
women and children ? 

Miss Smith. I made the point very, very strongly in writing about 
the Hungarian situation in my magazine, that I thought all armies 
of both East and West, that the English and French armies should 
get out of Egypt, that our armies should get out of places where they 
were where they had no right to be and that the Red army should 
get out of Hungary, too, by international agreement. 

Mr. Arens. How about the web of international agents of the con- 
spiracy ? 

Mr. Scherer. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel. AMiat you have stated, 
Madam, is tlie present policy of the Russian Government ''. 

Miss Smith. A great many very prominent Americans have ex- 
pressed themselves as thinking this would be a very, very important 
move for world peace. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand that. 

Miss Smith. Some leading Americans. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 351 

Mr. ScHERER. Will 3'ou answer my question, please ? 

Is not what you have just said the policy of the Russian Govermnent 
at the present moment ? 

Miss Smith. The Soviet Government has very definitely in several 
peace proposals advocated all troops withdrawing — their troops and 
tlie United States troops. 

Mr. Arens. Do you advocate also the withdrawing of the Red 
agents in the web of subversion tliat encircles this globe, masterminded 
liy the Kremlin ? Are you against that, too ? 

Miss Smith. I don't know what you are talking about. I don't 
understand this kind of question. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you propose, or do you advocate, that the Com- 
munist agents in the non-Communist countries of the world be with- 
drawn ? Have you ever taken that position ? 

Miss Smith. I don't know what you mean. I don't know what 
agents there are. I do know that, as long as a war exists in the world, 
every single government has its agents in other countries. That is 
one of the things I want to get rid of, too. 

Mr. Arexs. Do you want to get rid of the Communists that are in 
the non-Communist countries? 

Miss Smith. I want to get rid of all agents of governments in the 
interest of war or anything like that. I don't ditferentiate between 
any special kind. 

Mr. Arexs. You are helping us a little bit. Are the Communists 
in the United States agents of a foreign power ? 

Miss Smith. Xot to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Are the Connnunists in the other countries of the world 
agents of the Kremlin? 

Miss Smith. As I have said before, every country has some kinds 
of agents in other countries. Now to specify any particular kind of 
people as always agents when they are in other countries is something 
(juite beyond my comprehension. 

Mr. Arexs. I la}" before you a photostatic reproduction of one 
of your advertisements, or an advertisement, appearing in your 
publication, "Soviet Russia Today*' announcing the formation of a 
lecture bureau offering outstanding lectui-es on all ]:)hases of Soviet 
life," including a number of lectures, and one Jessica Smitli. 
including a number of lecturers, and one Jessica Smith. 

Please tell this committee while you are under oath whether you are 
accurately described there as one of the lecturers who knows ail about 
life in Soviet Russia. 

Mr. Forer. "Where is this ? Did you sa}' that there is a description 
here that she knows all about Soviet Russia i This is what he means. 

Miss SMmi. It doesn't say "know all about." It says these lec- 
turers will bring tlie living truth about the Soviet Union, or something 
like that, to your club or organization. 

There is a general overall phrase about lecturers on all phases of 
Soviet life, yes. Different lecturers on different phases. 

Mr. Arexs. Xow tell us, are you accurately described there as one of 
tlie lecturers in this series? 

Miss Smith. At that time, as far as I can remember, it was some 
rime ago, back in 19^,0. 

Mr. Arexs. And you were one of the lecturers ? 

Miss Smith. I was one of the lecturers. 

Mr. Arexs. Thank vou, ma'am. 



352 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

(Document marked "Smith Exhibit No, 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Aeens. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of a docu- 
ment entitled "We Pledge Peace." We are going to greet the Soviet 
Union and we are going to "break the boycott on truth," in which 
Jessica Smith is described as an author of Women in Soviet Russia 
and People Come First. Jessica Smith is described as one who has 
traveled extensively in the Soviet Union. First of all, look at that 
and tell us whether or not you are accurately described. 

Miss Smith. I see nothing wrong with it. 

(Document marked "Smith Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you travel extensively in the Soviet Union? 
I just want to be sure; do you accept the identification there of 
yourself? 

Miss Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. When did you travel extensively in the 
Soviet Union? 

Miss Smith. The first and longest trip in which I traveled most 
extensively was when I went with the American Friends Service 
Committee after the World War which was, as you may remember, 
part of the Hoover relief administration to do famine-relief work. 

Mr. Arens. That was the First World War? 

Miss Smith. After the First World War. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist at that time ? 

Miss Smith. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons that 
I have previously given. 

JNIr. Arens. Let us get your second trip. 

Miss Smith. You are sort of interrupting me. 

Mr. Arens. I apologize, ma'am. Tell us about your second trip 
to Soviet Russia. 

Miss Smith. The second trip was during 1926 and 1927, when I 
wrote the book that was there described about Women in Soviet 
Russia. 

Mr. Arens. What occasioned your trip to Soviet Russia? 

Miss Smith. General interest 

Mr. Arens. Who paid for it? 

Miss Smith. In agricultural and other developments in the Soviet 
Union that had grown out of my work with the Quakers. 

Mr. Arens. Who paid for your trip, do you recall, or under whose 
auspices did you make this trip ? 

Miss Smith. I think I will decline to answer that question for the 
same reasons I gave before. 

Mr. Arens. It was not paid for by the Communist Party surely, 
was it? 

Miss Smith. I decline to answer. That is a very loaded kind of 
question, I might add at this point, and I think it would be nicer if 
you would just direct your questions to get straight answers and not 
put in these little tricky things that have nothing to do with what 
you are asking or what I have to answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me ask you a direct question. Did the Commu- 
nist Party pay for your expenses on the trip ? 

Miss Smith. Because of the nature of the questioning at this point, 
I decline to answer for the reasons I have previously given. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 353 

Mr. Arens. Did you take another trip to Soviet Russia ? 

Miss Smith. Yes ; I took another short trip in the summer of 1935. 

Mr. Arens. What occasioned that trip ? 

Miss SivirrH. Just general interest to see how things were developmg, 
to go to some of the places I had been before and see what growth and 
progress had taken place. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio paid for that trip ? 

Miss Smith. To the best of my recollection, I paid for it myself. 

Mr. Arens. Was it under the auspices of any group or organization ? 

Miss Smith. I went for a short time as an individual. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the last trip you made to Soviet Russia ? 

Miss Smith. No. I went again after the war. 

Mr. Ajrens. After the Second World War ? 

Miss Smith. After the Second World War. 

Mr. Arens. What year was that that you went to Soviet Russia ? 

Miss Smith. At the end of 1945. 

Mr, Arens. How long were you gone ? 

Miss Smith. Approximately 3 months ; maybe a little more. 

Mr. Arens. Under whose auspices did you go ? 

Miss Smith. I went under the auspices of our magazine. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio accompanied you on the trip ? 

Miss Smith. Nobody accompanied me on the trip. 

Mr. Arens. Whose guest were you in So\det Russia? 

Miss Smith. "VYliile I was in the country, I was the guest of the 
Society for Cultural Relations. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have access around the country to the various 
activities and institutions that Avere there so you could come back and 
write your books about it ? 

Miss Smith. I went to quite a lot of cities and places ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see any slave-labor camps ? 

Miss Smith. I didn't see any. 

Mr. Arens. Did vou look around to see if you could find any of 
them? 

Miss Smith. I looked around to see everything I could possibly see 
in the short time that I had. 

Mr. Arens. They didn't hide them from you, did they ? 

Mr. FoRER. Is this proper questioning? 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, I don't have to read you the rules, as I did 
to Mr. Sacher. You know your sole and exclusive prerogative is to 
advise the client. 

Did you see any slave-labor camps in Soviet Russia? 

Miss Smith. ISIo. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ask conditions about the prison camps ? 

Miss Smith. I asked about the conditions of prisons. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ask about slave-labor camps ? 

Miss Smith. I don't agree with that terminology. I know there 
were concentration camps where there were prisoners of war. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ask anything about the ]5olitical prisoners there, 
people put in there because of political beliefs ? 

Miss Smith. I had conferences about many different things. 

Mr. Arens. What did they tell you about the political prisoners? 

Miss Smith. This was not one of the things on which I concentrated. 

90121— 57— pt. 5 8 



354 COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IX THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Arens. Why were you not concerned about that ? 

Miss Smith. I am very much concerned about these questions. 

Mr. Arens. W]\y didn't you make a little exploration over there to 
find out about these slave-labor camps? 

Miss Smith. Because I understood that the Soviet Union had been 
throuofh an incredibly difficult period. They had lost something like 
20 million people. 

Mr. Arens. They killed about 10 million, did they not, of their own 
citizens? 

Miss Smitpt. Xo : I heard of nothing like that. I think that is a very 
much exaggerated statement. 

Mr. Scherf.r. Was it 9 million ? 

Miss SMiTPr. They had lost something like 20 million people in the 
war. Everybody I saw, every single person I saw, had lost somebody 
in the war. Their cities were devastated. I went to Stalingrad. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see Stalin while you were there? 

Miss Smith. A city that was completely wiped out and a city, which 
as you may remember, the defense of which caused the entire turning 
point of the war. 

Mr. Arens. What does this have to do with slave-labor camps? 

Miss Smith. I am telling you why I didn't concentrate so much on 
questions of political prisoners and things of that kind. 

Mr. Arens. What were you concerned about ? 

Miss Smith. When I was in the midst of a country, as I told you, 
where every single one had lost a father or a brother — they were just 
emerging from this situation — you didn't stop and ask about all of 
these other things. I had thought the stories greatly exaggerated as 
most of them were. But I was most concerned to see how they were 
going to revive from the situation that they had been through to 
which we in America owed so much, to find out the kind of things that 
I could bring back and tell us here, so that we could have better and 
friendlier relations for a long period, as our President Roosevelt hoped 
to do before he died. 

Mr. Arens. Did you get to see Stalin while you were over there? 

Miss S311TH. I didn't get to see Stalin. I didn't try to see Stalin. 
I was much more interested in the common people. 

Mr. Scherer. Didn't we have that same situation in Germany, the 
cities were leveled and everybody lost someone in their families? 

Miss Smith. Yes. There was a very, very sad situation in Ger- 
many, and the German people suffered very much. But may I just 
remind you that it was Hitler and the Fascist government that was the 
aggressor and that started the war and which brought our country into 
it. It seems to me tliere is a little bit of difl'erence. 

You certainly can be sad that any people anywhere have to die, 
particularly the nonbelligerent population : but you cannot compare 
what happened to Fascist Germany, as the aggressor against which all 
the democracies had to fight, as to what happened to a country that 
was invaded. 

Mr. Scherer. And you had the same situation in England, didn't 
you ? 

Miss Smith. England suffered very much. There is no question 
England suffered greatly. But no country suffered the kind of devas- 
tation that the Soviet Union suffered. This is a well-known fact. 

Mr. Arens. I take it you are opposed to fascism. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 355 

Miss Smith. I hate all war, I hate all fascism, I hate all destruction 
of whatever kind wherever I see it. 

Mr. SciiERER. Madam, you are a writer. Since the atrocities in 
Hungary by the Communists and the Russians, have 3'ou written any- 
thing condemning that action and those atrocities since you hate 
killing and war? Have you written anything at all condemning that? 

Miss Smith. I have already explained. You want me to go over 
the same ground again, 

Mr. SciiERER. Have you written anything in all your publications 
condemning the atrocities by the Russians in Hungary in view of your 
statement now ? I want to know. 

Miss Smith. I have already told you before I made this statement, 
I did write about Hungary. I know that there were a great many 
atrocities, that were carried on by the so-called rebels. I know that 
the Soviet troops that went in there caused damage and suffering. 
1 hate all that. I told you before that I felt that this situation was 
a situation that arose out of the whole cold-war situation, because 
there are armies of the West in Europe, there are also armies of the 
Soviet Union in other countries. Because of policies of carrying on 
counterrevolutionary activities in which our comitry has had a part. 
There were many elements in Hungaiy, elements from the old Fascist 
regime, who wanted to restore fascism in Hungary. You must re- 
member that Hungary was the first Fascist state. It was a Fascist 
state even before Hitler got started. There were many people who 
wanted to restore fascism. There were people in our country who had 
a great deal to do over the years with helping those people. 

The thing one has to understand about Hungary is that it was a 
whole world situation. You have to understand the guilt of the 
western nations in creating a divided Europe with the danger of war. 
I don't for a minute condone foreign troops in any countiy, but I 
think you have to judge any situation against the whole workl back- 
ground, and I tried to explain this. Because I think we here in the 
West have our share of the guilt, too. All of us have to think in terms 
of our own responsibilities, the best way of making sure that this sort 
of thing never happens in the world again. 

Mr. J^cherer. Now, Madam, you have taken a long time to give an 
answer that could have been yes or no to the simple question I asked 
you. I^et us stay on the question. Did you in all of your writings — I 
am not saying you should have — did you in all of your writings any 
place condemn the action of the Russian Government? 

Miss SikiiTii. I said it was a terrible thing, it should have been 
avoided, but condemning was not enough. We had to understand the 
whole situation and our share of responsibility. 

Mr. Scherer. Then 3-ou blame part of the atrocities in Hungary on 
the United States? 

Miss Smith. I don't blame them specifically on the United State-s, 
if you are thinking in tenns of any particular person. I blame them 
in part, on a policy which, for years and years, has been hammering 
through radio free Europe and through all kinds of Fascist gi'oups 
that we have helped support all throughout Europe — there are many 
in Gennan}" and in other countries w^hich have tried to prepare for a 
restoration of the old rejrime. 



356 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

To the extent that our country has encouraged some of those people, 
to this extent, I think we must share the responsibility. 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it significant to you that in all of the argu- 
ments you have just made you have not once placed any blame on the 
Soviet Union for the thing that has happened ? 

Miss Smith. I have told you 

Mr. ScHERER. You have had a good chance. 

Miss Smith. You asked me specifically whether I blamed our 
country. Certainly I blame the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union 
has made a great many mistakes in Hungary and in its own country. 
If it had not been for those mistakes, the immediate uprising at that 
time very likely would not have happened. But it was because of 
the AYestern countries and their encouragement to the Fascist and 
Horthy groups that the situation reached the terrible point of blood- 
shed that it did. It was a combination of everything put together. I 
blame everyone that had any part in permitting such a situation 
to arise. I blame the Soviet Union, the Hungarian Government, for 
their part in it as well as anybody else. 

Mr. ScHERER. You feel, then, that there was some justification for 
the Russians sending troops into Hungary to settle a domestic prob- 
lem? 

Miss Smith. They did not send the troops in, as I tried to explain 
to you before. 

Mr. ScHEEER. They didn't? 

Miss Smith. Under the North Atlantic Treaty, the United States 
has its troops stationed in many European countries. You may re- 
member that there is a NATO and that American troops are sta- 
tioned there. It was not until after NATO was set up — and NATO 
was based on the whole fact that Germany, Western Germany, should 
be rearmed and should be the core of the — it was not until the United 
States sent its troops and helped organize the NATO that the Soviet 
Union and the other Socialist countries organized the Warsaw Pact 
countries, and on their part stationed some of their troops in Eastern 
Europe. 

Mr. Moulder. Let us proceed. 

Mr. Arens. You have told us you hate fascism. Do you equally 
hate communism ? 

Miss Smith. I refuse to answer on the ground I have already given. 

Mr. Arens. We would like to just ask you 

Mr. Scherer. Just a moment, please. After the invasion and atroc- 
ities in Hungary, did you withdraw from the Communist Party, as 
some of the Communists did in this country ? 

Miss Smith. What kind of a loaded question is that to ask ? I don't 
understand it. I really don't understand. Is this a straight and 
honest kind of investigation ? 

Mr. Scherer. Will you answer the question ? 

Miss Smith. If it is phrased in a way in which it can be answered. 

Mr. FoRER. She is asking you to withdraw the question. 

Mr. Scherer. I am not withdrawing the question. You under- 
stood my question ; did you not ? 

Miss Smith. No; I didn't. I would think that Members of the 
United States Congress would at least want to keep their proceedings 
orderly and decent and not ask this kind of tricky question. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 357 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. Did you withdraw membership in the 
Communist Party, as many Communists did in this country, in pro- 
test to the atrocities in Hungary by the Communists ? 

Miss Smith. It sounds about the same to me. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think everyone in the room understands that. I 
ask you to direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. Forer. Give her a chance to answer without direction. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Counsel, we don't have to read you the rules again. 

Mr. FoRER. Why not? I am always glad to hear the rules. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Smith. Since you don't rephrase it, I have to refuse to answer 
for the reasons given and, in addition, because it is a very loaded and 
inifair question. 

Mr. Arens. Now we would like to lay before you just two of the 
articles by yourself in the New World Review of November 1954 and 
January 1954. The first is 37th Anniversary of the U. S. S. R., by 
Jessica Smith, in which you call for the reeducation of the American 
people on the facts of life in the Soviet Union, the Chinese People's 
Republic, and the People's Democracies as one of the major tasks of 
our time. That is in the first article. 

The other is an article, I low the McCarrsm Act Threatens You, in 
which you announced to the world : 

There has been no Soviet aggression, and no sign of any preparations for 
aggression, as the top military leaders of the United States have been com- 
pelled to admit again and again — 

and that the McCarran Act, the Internal Security Act — 

represents one of the main instruments of reaction in its efforts to establish 
an American brand of fascism and unleash a new world war. 

Would you kindly glance at each of those articles and see if you 
would help this committee by telling us whether or not you are accu- 
rately quoted there in that reproduction ? 

Mr. Scherer. What is the date of this ? 

Mr. Arens. 1054. 

Miss Smith. They are both photostats and they seem to have come 
from the magazine. You don't expect me to read them all. 

Mr. Arens. I just want to know if you would accept the reproduc- 
tion there. 

Miss Smith. I accept the reproduction. I would not necessarily 
accept everything I have said at some previous time. 

Mr. Arens. Were those articles in the New World Review ? 

Miss Smith. Yes ; I did. 

(Documents marked "Smith Exhibit No. 5," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that concludes the staff interro- 
gation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. All the documents referred to by the counsel and 
presented to the witness for identification are admitted in evidence 
and will be part of the record. 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, did you write in this article which you just 
identified as late as January 1954 this : 

But the Soviet Union, steadfastly pursuing its policy of peace, has failed to 
provide an iota of evidence to back up this myth. There has been no Soviet 



358 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

aggression and no sign of any preparation for aggression, as tlie top military 
leaders of the United States have been compelled to admit again and again. 

Miss Smith. I have no doubt I did. As a matter of fact, when. 
Secretary Dulles was testifying on the Middle Eastern problem, he 
said there was no sign of Soviet agression, even though this was sup- 
posed to be the basis for the thing. Military men are saying this 
today. 

Mr. SciiERER. You say the Russians didn't send any arms into the 
Middle East? 

Miss Smith. He said there was no sign of threatened aggression. 
This refers to aggression. Secretary Dulles himself made that state- 
ment. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Joseph Felshin. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give 
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Felshin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH FELSHIN (JOSEPH FIELDS), ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, HAKRY SACHER 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Felshin. Joseph Felshin, F-e-1-s-h-i-n. I live at 1134 East 
22d Street, Queens. I am a publisher. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Felshin. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Felshin, That is right. 

Mr. Sacher. Harry Sacher, 342 Madison Avenue, New York 17. 

Mr, Arens. Are you known by any name otlier than Joseph 
Felshin ? 

Mr. Felshin. I occasional!}^ write under the name of Joseph 
Fields. 

Mr. Arens. What is your occupation again? 

Mr. Felshin. Publisher. 

Mr, Arens. With what firm are you connected ? 

Mr. Felshin. I decline to answer that question, invoking the fifth 
and first amendments on the grounds that my answer may be used by 
this committee against me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of the 
certification of incorporation of the New Century Publishers, Inc., 
in which you, Joseph Felshin, are listed as one of the officers of New 
Century Publishers. Kindly look at this document and tell us 
whether or not that accurately describes your status with the New 
Century Publishers. 

Mr. Felshin, I decline to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tioned grounds. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IX THE UXITED STATES 359 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Felshix. I decline again. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed and advised. You may 
be endangering yourself 

Mr. Felsiiix. Under the fifth and first amendments. 

(Document marked "Felshin Exhibit No. 1,'" and retained in Com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. I lay before you a reproduction of a statement filed with 
the Post Ofiice Department by Political Aft'airs, a publication in which 
you, Joseph Felshin, are listed as business manager. Look at that 
document and tell us whether or not that is your signature. 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and 
fifth amendments. 

(Document marked "Felshin Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. As a prerequisite to obtaining your witness fee. you 
are requested to sign a pay voucher. Will you now sign that pay 
voucher while you are under oath? I saj^, without any sense of trying 
to entrap you, that the purpose of this request is so that we may have 
a comparison of a signature given while you are under oath with the 
signature appearing on the document which we have just displayed 
to you. 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to sign my name on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendment and I will forego that little payment. 

Mr. Sacher. Will you advise him that he doesn't have to forego 
his fee ? 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mr. Arexs. We are not trying to have him forego anything. I am 
asking whether or not, while he is under oath, he would fix his signa- 
ture to the pa}- voucher so that we could have a comparison of 
signatures. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, under the law, he has to sign a re- 
ceipt for his fee; and when he signs that receipt, I suggest at that 
time the receipt or voucher be incorporated by reference in the record. 

Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Sacher. I may suggest that won't discourage him from asking 
for his fees, Mr. Congressman. 

(Document marked "Felshin Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. Counsel, you don't want me to read these rules again. 

Mr. Sacher. No, I will forego that pleasure. 

Mr. Arexs. Political Affairs, concerning which we have just in- 
troduced an exhibit, is the successor organization, or the successor 
publication, to a publication known as The Communist, is it not? 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr. Arexs. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of a letter 
from yourself, as president of the Workers Library Publishers, Inc., 
addressed to the Post Office Department in which you advise the Post 
Office Department that you are changing the name of your monthly 
magazine from The Communist to Political Affairs. Kindly look at 
that docimient and tell us whether or not you will be good enough 
to identify your signature. 



360 COMlMirXIST PROPAGAXDA IX THE UXITED STATES 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to identify it on tlie aforementioned 
gro^mds. 

(Document marked "Felsliin Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Akens. I would like to read you an excerpt from an article 
appearing in The Worker of August 1, 1948, by Joseph Felsliin : 

Our Party, in hammering out its political line for the sharpening struggle 
ahead must also take into account the struggle that must be waged to bring 
this line to far broader sections of the working people than we have succeeded 
in reaching in the past. 

Pamphlets, books and periodicals are — like our party press, mass meetings, 
leaflets, radio — one of many means of mass communication. But it is clear, 
as we go into the crucial stages of the 1948 election struggle, that the role of 
the Marxist-Leninist literature in the fight for the ix)litical line of our Party 
among the masses assumes greater importance than ever. The printed word, 
through our mass pamphlets and books, bring our propaganda to the workers in 
its most elaborated and developed form and, if effectively organized, can reach 
far greater numbers than any other medium at our disposal. 

Please look at that article and tell us whether or not you authored it. 

Mr. Felsiiix. I decline to verify wliether I wrote that or not, on 
the aforementioned. 

(Document marked "Felsliin Exhibit No. 5," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. You were a member of the Literature Commission of 
the Coimnunist Party ; were you not ? 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

My. Arexs. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of the 
Communist Daily Worker of August 13, 1947, in which you are de- 
scribed as a member of the Literature Commission of the Coiranunist 
conspiracy. 

Mr. Sacher. You have not asked him a question. 

Mr. Felsiiix. He asked me to verify it and I decline. 

(Document marked "Felsliin Exhibit No. 6," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. You may take issue with your counsel if you want to. 

Mr. Felshix. I like him. 

Mr. Arexs. Have you ever been connected with Mainstream? 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr. Arexs. You were at one time president of Mainstream; were 
you not? 

Mr. Felshix. I decline to answer on the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr. Arexs. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of a letter 
signed by yourself, as president of Mainstream [Associates. Inc. J, 
addressed to the postmaster, in which you tell him some of your prob- 
lems with postal regulations in connection with Mainstream. 

Mr. Sacher. You have not asked him a question. You just made 
a statement. 

Mr. Arexs. I am laying it before him. I shall ask him questions, 
Counsel. Do you see the letter ? 

Mr. Felshix. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. Would you kindly identify your signature? 

Mr. Felshix. No ; I will not, on the aforementioned grounds. 

(Document marked "Felsliin Exhibit No. 7," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 361 

Mr. Arens. Do yoii know a man by tlie name of John Laiitner ? 

Mr. Felshix. The name is familiar. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Lautner, will you stand up there. Is this the man 
whose name is familiar to you t 

Mr. Felshin. May I examine him I My eyesight is not too gooci 
Would you ask him to remove his glasses ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever see that man before I 

Mr. Felshin. I will swallow my feelings and refuse to answer on 
the aforementioned grounds. 

Mr. Arens. This man yesterday took an oath before this conmiittee 
and identified you as a member of the Communist Party. Was he 
lying or telling the truths' 

Mr. Felshin. I decline to answer on the aforementioned gromids. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that concludes the 
staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. All the documents referred to by counsel and ex- 
hibited to the witness will l>e admitted in evidence and made a part 
of the record. 

Mr. Moulder. The Avitness is excused. You may collect your fee 
for attendance from ]Mr. Jones, acting clerk for the committee. 

The committee will stand in recess for a period of 5 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Arens. 

(Committee members present: Representatives ]\Ioulder and 
Scherer. ) 

Mr. Arens. JNIr. Milton Howard. 

TESTIMONY OF MILTON HOWAED (MILTON HALPEEN), ACCOM- 
PANIED BY COUNSEL. HAEEY SACHEE 

Mr. Moulder. Hold up your hand to be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear the testimony you give before this committee will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God '. 

Mr. How-VRD. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Howard. I am Milton Howard. I am a journalist. 

Mr. Arens. x\.nd your place of residence? 

Mr. Howard. 260 West T2d Street. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in i-esponse to a subpena 
served upon you by the House Conunittee on Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. Howard. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented l)y coimsel ? 

Mr. Howard. Yes. 

Mr. Sacher. Harry Sacher, 342 IMadison Avenue, Xew York 17. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Howard, have you ever been known by an}' name 
other than the name pursuant to which you. are appearing today^ 
Milton Howard ? 

Mr. How^vRD. Yes, I have. 
.Mr. Arens. What other names? 

]\Ir. Howard. ]\Iilton Halpern, my given name. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been known b}' any other name ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



362 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IX THE UNITED STATES 

]\Ir. Arens. Perhaps to refresh your recollection, have you been 
known by the name of Milton Horowitz at any time ? 

Mr. Howard. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where are yon emjiloyecl? 

INIr. Howard. I respectfully decline to answer that question, sir, 
on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do 3'ou honestly apprehend that, if you told this com- 
mittee truthfully where 3'ou are employed, you would be supplying 
information that might be nsed against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Howard. I decline. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. Howard. I decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a ])hotostatic copy of a statement filed 
by Masses and Mainstream, Octo])er 1956, with the Post Office Depart- 
ment, in which you are identified as the editor of Masses and Main- 
stream, Inc. Please look at that document and tell us whether or 
not you are accurately described in there. 

Mr. Howard. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds already mentioned. 

(Document marked "Howard Exhibit No. 1,'* and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you, if you please, a pliotostatic reproduc- 
tion of the masthead of Masses and Mainstream in which you are iden- 
tified as a contributing editor to the publication. Please look at that 
document and tell us whether or not you are accurately described. 

Mr. Howard. I decline to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Howard Exhibit No. 2,"' and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by tlie name of John Lautner? 

Mr. How^ard. I have heard the name. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you hear it? 

Mr. Howard. I should say I read the name in the press. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever read or heard the name any place else 
in the last day or two? 

Mr. Howard. Not to my knowledge, 

Mr. Arens. Have vou ever served in a closed partv meetins; with 
him? ^ 1 . - 

Mr. Howard. I decline to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. jSIr. Lautner identified you yesterday as a member of 
the Communist Party. Was he lying or telling the trnth? 

Mr. Howard. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a photostatic reproduction of an 
announcement of courses of the Workers School, in which you are 
identified as one of the professors to teach the students about political 
forces shaping national and international developments. Please look 
at that document a.nd tell us whether or not you are accurately 
described. 

Mr. Howard. There is a date, July 2, 1937. Am I reading that 
correctly ? 

Mr, Arens. Yes. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 363 

Mr. Howard. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Howard Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been on the staff of the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Howard. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. xVrens. I lay before you now a reproduction of the Daily 
"Worker of May 1, 1937, in Avhich your photograph appears and in 
which you are identified as a member of the staff of that publication. 
Please look at that and tell us whetlier or not you are accurately 
described. 

Mr. Howard. I respectfully decline to answer that on the same 
grounds. 

(Document marked ''Howard Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. This publication, tlie Communist Daily Worker, back in 
1947 (March 14, 1947, p. 5) described you as a Communist. I want 
to lay that before you now. ''We members of the Daily Worker staff 
are Connnunists and war veterans," and we do all sorts of things. 
Among those who are listed nre Milton Howard. 

Ix>ok at that document and tell us whether or not the Daily Worker 
truthfully and accurately describes you as a Communist. 

Mr. Howard. I decline, sir, to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

(Document marked "Ploward Exhibit No. 5," a,nd filed in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. We have a document in which you describe yourself 
as a Connnunist, an article appearing in the Daily Worker of July 
10, 1947, entitled "The Surest Argument for Socialism," by Milton 
Howard, in which you state, among other things : 

But. as a Communist American, I am passionately interested in seeing ttiat 
our national productivity be used for the welfare of the entire population, and 
not for the profits of a few, as at present. 

Please look at that and tell us whether or not you were truthfully 
describing yourself when you identified yourself in that publication 
as a member of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Howard. I respectfully decline to answer that on the same 
grounds. 

(Document marked ''Howard Exhibit No. 6," and filed in com- 
mittee tiles.) 

Mr. Arexs. I have an article here from The Worker of December 
18, 1949, p. 2, by INIilton Howard about Comrade Stalin I would like 
to read you one excerpt : 

The truth is that Stalin is the practitioner and philosopher of a new and 
higher form of democracy — Socialist democracy. He carries into life the great 
teachings of Socialist democracy as created by the immortal leaders of working- 
class socialism, Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, and V. I. Lenin — 

And so forth — 

is the advance of the common people toward democracy. 

Look at that article and see if you recall writing that article lauding 
Comrade Stalin. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Could you help us on that, please? 

Mr. Sacher. He is trying. 



364 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

Mr. Howard. I am consulting counsel, sir. I respectfully decline 
to answer on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Howard Exhibit No. 7," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you changed your position with reference to 
Comrade Stalin in the last year or so? 

Mr. Howard. I don't consider, sir, that my views are germane to 
this committee's probing. I have written a lot of nonsense in my 
life. 

Mr. Arens. Was this nonsense that vou wrote about Comrade 
Stalin? 

Mr. Howard. And I have written a lot of truths, always accordino- 
to the lights as I saw them. 

Mr. Arens. Pause there just a moment. 

Mr. Howard. As a grownup pei^on, naturally, I change my mind 
about a lot of things. I respectfully decline to answer your question 
on the grounds I stated. 

Mr. Arens. Was this nonsense that you wrote praising Comrade 
Stalin or was this factual ? 

Mr. Howard. I decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. We want to lay before you still another document, a 
photostatic reproduction of the Daily People's World (March 13, 
1951) ; out on the coast, a Communist production, in which an article 
appears: New Outlet for Honest Authors, by Milton Howard. 

I want to quote just a paragraph here : 

I refer to the announcement that Masses and Mainstream, monthly literary 
and political journal, is going into the business of publishing working class novels 
with the publication of the first novel of Negro writer Lloyd Brown. 

Kindly look at that article and tell us whether you are accurately 
described as the author of that article and whether or not you made 
the statements attributable to you. 

Mr. Howard. I respectfully decline to answer on the same gromids. 

(Document marked "Howard Exhibit No. 8,'' and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. IMr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that concludes the 
staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Mon.DER. Witness excused, and you may claim your witness 
fee from Mr. Jones. 

Mr. Arens, will you recall Mr. Lautner for just a minute. Will 
you take the stand, Mr. Lautner. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN LAUTNER— Eesumed 

Mr. Arens. You have previously been sworn on this record ? 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of your testimony yesterday, you identi- 
fixed a. person known to you to have been a Communist by the name 
of Zoltan Deak. 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Are there two Zoltan Deaks ? 

]Mr. Lautner. I know one. and I know of the other. The other is 
Dr. Zoltan Deak. I know of him. 

Mr. Arens. How does he spell his name ? 

Mr. Lautner. D-e-a-k. 



COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN" THE UNITED STATES 365 

Mr. Arens. Could you, for the purpose of clarification of this 
record, give us a word of description concerning the Zoltan Deak 
whom you knew as a member of the Communist Party i 

Mr. Moulder. And referred to by you yesterday in your testimony. 

Mr. Lautner. Yes ; he is right here. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us where he resides and what his occupa- 
tion is ? 

Mr. Lautner. All I know, Congressman, is that at the time I laiew 
him he was the editor of the Hungarian Conmiunist paper at 130 
East 16tli Street. 

Mr. Moulder. Is he going to be called as a witness ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes ; in the next couple of days. 

Mr. ScTiERER. I think perhaps we should clarify this a little more. 
You say the Zoltan Deak which you identified in your testimony yes- 
terday as a member of the Communist Party is in the hearing room 
today ^ 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. 

Mr. SciiERER. Would you point him out? 

Mr. Lautner. He is in the back row, the fifth person, in a dark 
green shirt and a dark brown jacket. 

Mr. Moulder. Is he a journalist? 

Mr. Lautner. He is a journalist. 

Mr. Moulder. This man that you refer to as being a Communist? 

Mr. Lautner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You have since learned that tliere is in tliis community, 
another pei'son known as Zoltan Deak who is not t]ie same person as 
the person who is in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lautner. I knew, before, that there is another Dr. Zoltan Deak 
who is not a Conununist. As a matter of fact, he is an anti-Com- 
munist. He is not identical with the same person I identified. 

Mr. Moulder. Congressman Scherer will read a telegram which 
we have received. 

Mr. Scherer. We have a telegram from evidently the other Zoltan 
Deak, who asks that he ]iot l>e confused with the Zoltan Deak you 
identified. 

Mr. Lautner. That is right. 

Mr. Scheri':r. The Zoltan Deak who sent the telegram lives now at 
2251 Loring Place, New York City. 

Mr. Lautner. I would not know his address. 

Mr. Scherer. The telegram indicates that the sender of this tele- 
gram lives at 2251 Loring Place, New York City. He, of course, says 
that he is not the Zoltan Deak whom you identified the other day. 

Mr. Lautner. Yes. I agree with this gentleman who sent that 
telegram that he is not the Zoltan Deak whom I identified. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. We would appreciate the cooperation of 
the press in making that fact public, if they will, for the protection of 
the person whose name is the same and may be confused with the man 
you identified as being a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Ordway Southard, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Southard. I do. 



366 COMIMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IN THE TJNITED STATES 

TESTIMONY OF OEDWAY SOUTHAED, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
VICTOE EABINOWITZ 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Southard. My name is Ordway Southard. I live at 225 West 
109th in Manhattan, and I am a writer. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. Southard. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel? 

Mr. Southard. I am. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Victor Rabinowitz. 25 Broad Street, Xew York. 

Mr. Arens. With what firm or organization are you identified in 
your writing work, Mr. Southard ? 

Mr. Southard. I would like to say that I don't know that I have 
done anything wrong or illegal, but my counsel advises me that such 
a question addressed to me by this committee will place me in jeop- 
ardy, and therefore I must decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a Communist? 

Mr. Southard. I will have to answer that in the same way. 

Mr. Moulder. For what reasons are you declining to answer? 

Mr. Southard. I am declining to answer because my counsel ad- 
vises me that I will be placed in jeopard}' if I do so. 

Mr. MouT^DER. To clearly miderstand you, you are claiming your 
privilege under the fifth amendment and invoking the fifth amend- 
ment in declining to answer? 

Mr. Southard. Yes, sir; that is what I am advised to do and that 
is Avhat I intend to do. 

Mr. Moulder. For the reason that it might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Southard. I would not say that. I would, however, say that, 
from Avhat I understand of the fifth amendment, it does give me tlie 
right to decline to answer a question when I feel that might put me 
in jeopardy before the law. 

Mr. Arens. Do 5'ou honestly apprehend, if you gave a truthful 
answer to the last outstanding principal question, you would be 
supplying information which might be used against you in a crin.iinal 
proceeding? 

Mr. Southard. I think I have already answered that. 

Mr. Arens. Answer it again. 

INIr. Southard. I honestly apprehend that when this committee asks 
me questions of that type that I could be placed in jeopardy. 

Mr. Scherer. This is the first witness that has properly answered 
that question. You have properly answered the question. You have 
been properly advised by your attornej', Avho understands wluit the 
ruling of the court is. 

Mr. Arens. We want to lay before you now a copy of the Daily 
Worker of August 20, 1942, in which an article appears entitled ''o 
Communists Qualify For Alabama Election."' In the course of thi& 
article it tells about youi^self being a candidate for Governor on the 
Communist Party ticket in Massachusetts. Look at that article and 
would you be good enough to tell this committee whether or not that 
accuratel}- portrays the facts. I made a mistake. That is Alabama 
I'ather than Massachusetts. 



COMJMUNIST PROPAGAXDA IX THE UNITED STATES 367 

Mr. Southard. That doesn't make any difference, sir, I will de- 
cline to answer the question on the same g:i"omids. 

(Document marked "Southard Exhibit No. 1," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. I have a document entitled "A Confession of 
Faith. We State Our Case to the Legislative Committee,"' issued by 
the State Committee of the Communist Party of Massachusetts, con- 
taining an a])peal by a number of people, including Mr. Ordway 
Southard, of Boston, Mass., on behalf of the Communist Party. 

Please look at that article and tell us whether or not that accurately 
portrays the facts. 

Mr. Southard. I decline to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Southard Exhibit No. 2,'" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Ml*. Arens. How long liave you been employed at your present place 
of employment ? 

Mr. Southard. I am a writer. I am not employed in the sense that 
your question seems to imply. 

Mr. Arexs. When were you last identified with a commercial or- 
ganization, then ? 

Mr. Southard. I think I will have to pass that one up for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you ever Avork for Prai'da ? 

Mr. Southard. I have to decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arexs. I lay before you now the supplemental registration 
statements filed by Georgi ^likhailovicli Ratiani and Fedor T. 
Orekhov, registered agents of Pravda, the publication of the Soviet 
Government, in which you are listed as an employee of Pravda. 
Kindly look at those documents and tell this committee wliile you are 
under oath whether or not your status with Pravda is accurately 
described. 

Mr, Southard. I will have to decline again, sir, on the same grounds. 

(Documents marked "Southard Exhibit No. 3," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arexs. Do you know these men whose names I just called off,. 
Georgi Mikhailovich Ratiani and Fedor T. Orekhov? 

Mr. SoLTHARD. I will havc to decline, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you this instant a member of the Communist con- 
spiracy ? 

Mr. Southard. I am told that a court has held that this is not a 
jH'oper question. Apart from that, it seems to be like asking me when 
I stopped beating my wife, to introduce a conspiracy into a question. 
It doesn't seem quite right. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you a member of the Communist Party? Is that 
what you are objecting to ? 

Mr. Southard. In regard to that question, I will have to decline to 
answer on the previous grounds. 

Mr. Arexs. Let us try another question. Are you a member of an 
organization dedicated to the overthrow of the Government of the 
United States by force and violence ? 

Mr. Southard. No. 

Mr. Arexs. Are you a member of an organization which has been 
found by the Supreme Court of the United States and by the Congress 



368 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN THE UNITED STATES 

of the United States to be an organization dedicated to the overthrow 
of the Government of the United States by force and violence ? 

Mr. Southard. Let me say first that I am not a lawyer and I am not 
competent to judge what the Court has decided to be illegal or not 
illegal. I gi'ant you that doesn't answer your question, but I want 
to state that. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think he has answered sufficiently, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Any other questions ? 

Mr. Aeens. No. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. I think here is an example of a witness, while he has 
invoked the fifth amendment, who has been very courteous without 
any recriminations, or the like. I think we ought to compliment him 
and his counsel. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. However, before excusing 
the witness — did you offer any documents ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. There is a general order that all documents will 
be included in the record. 

Mr. Moulder. All documents submitted to witnesses will be con- 
sidered as having been offered in evidence and made a part of the 
record at the appropriate point. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused and he will obtain his attend- 
ance fee from Mr. Jones who is acting as clerk for the committee. 

The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow morning at 10 
o'clock. 

(^Vliereupon, at 3 : 35 p. m., "Wednesday, March 13, the hearing was 
recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m., Thursday, March 14, 1957.) 

X 



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