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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the Milwaukee, Wis., area. Hearings"

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HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES 
IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA— Part 1 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS 

FIRST. SESSION 



MARCH 28 AND 29, 1955 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
(Index in part 2 of these hearings) 




UNITED STATES 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

WASHINGTON : 1955 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 
II 



CONTENTS 



March 28, 1955: Testimony of— Page 

James R. Eggleston 608 

Sigmund G. Eisenscher 640 

Alfred H. Hirsch 657 

Mortimer Altman 664 

March 29, 1955: Testimony of — 

Michael J. Ondrejka.. 671 

(Testimony of Joseph F. Preloznik. Michael Ondrejka (resumed), John J. 
Killian, Gerald Rose, Mark Berman, Sidney D. Berger, and Murray Wolfson, 
also heard on this date, is printed in pt. 2 of this series.) 

m 



Public Law 601, 79th Congbess 

The legislation under which the House Committee on un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
763, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
• ♦♦•*•• 

17. Cktmmittee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
Rule XI 

POWEES AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

T 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955 
• »***** 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees: 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA— PART 1 



MONDAY, MARCH 28, 1955 

UxiTED States House of Representatives, 

sltbcommittee of the committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Milwaukee^ Wis. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to call, at 10 a. m., in the ]Marble Courtroom, Federal 
Building, Milwaukee, AVis., Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the sub- 
committee) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle (chair- 
man), Edwin E. Willis, Gordon H. Scherer, and Donald L. Jackson. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and W. 
Jackson Jones, staff investigator. 

Mr. DoYLE. The committee will yjlease be in order. 

Let the record show that Hon. Francis E. Walter, chairman of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, 
Washington, D. C, pursuant to the provisions of Public Law 601, 
enacted in 1946, establishing this committee, duly appointed Repre- 
sentative Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, on my right, Gordon H. 
Scherer, of Ohio, on my left, and myself, as chairman, Clyde Doyle, 
of California, as a subcommittee, to conduct these hearings in this 
beautiful city. 

The full membership of the officially appointed subcommittee is 
present. Also present for 1 day is Hon. Donald L. Jackson of Cali- 
fornia, a member of the full Committee on Un-American Activities. 
We are pleased he is with us even though it is only for 1 day. Mr. 
Jackson sits on my extreme left. 

The Congress of the United States has imposed upon this Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities the duty of making an investigation 
of the strength, character, and objectives of un-American propaganda 
activities in the United States, the diffusion within the United States 
of subversive and un-American propaganda that is instituted from 
foreign countries or of a domestic origin and which attacks the prin- 
ciple of the form of government as guaranteed by our United States 
Constitution; and all other questions in relation thereto, which would 
aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation. 

This committee is not a court. Its duty is to investigate as an aid 
to Congress for the purpose of more intelligently legislating. 

This committee has devoted much time in the past few years to 
'he investigation of the subject of communism, and the committee has 

605 



606 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

endeavored to keep Congi-ess well-informed of the objects and extent 
of the Communist conspiracy within this country. We have held sim- 
ilar investigations in many of the most vital and industrial manufac- 
turing cities of our great Nation. 

In the performance of this huge task, the committee in its reports 
to Congress has made 48 recommendations for new legislation by Con- 
gress for the strengthening of existing legislation designed to aid in the 
tight against this Communist conspiracy. All but four of these recom- 
mendations by this committee in one form or another have been en- 
acted already into law by the Congress of the United States. 

In pursuing the statutory objectives of this committee, as outlined 
above, former investigations have disclosed a concentration of Com- 
munist efforts in many of the strategic defense areas of our beloved 
Nation. 

The city of ISIilwaukee, your city, ranking 8th in size as compared 
to the otlier great industrial cities of our Nation, having in its area 
more than 2,000 manufacturing plants, representing 200 distinct lines 
of industry, and leading the whole world, if you please, in the manu- 
facture of heavy machinery and electrical controls, important units 
and parts thereof, is of great strategic importance of our Nation as 
a wliole, both in peacetime as well as in time of war. 

The purpose of this present investigation, started this morning for 
3 days, is to determine, first, whether there has been Communist 
activity in this important area and, if so, the nature, the extent, the 
character and the objects there of. It is not limited to this brief 
statement, however. The committee is especially interested in ascer- 
taining the methods used by the Communist Party of the United 
States in infiltrating local industrial units, civic organizations, or 
other groups, and the extension of its influence into the social, eco- 
nomic, and political phases of our society. Wliatever information 
we obtain wnll better enable Congress to legislate more ably and 
comprehensively. 

It is the standing rule of this committee that any person named 
in the course of committee hearings be given an early opportunity 
to appear before this committee, if he desires, for the purpose of 
denying or explaining any testimony adversely affecting him. This 
is part of the American way of doing right and justice. If this be a 
person's desire, he should communicate immediately with our dis- 
tingushed legal counsel, Mr. Frank Tavenner, who has been our legal 
counsel now for over 6 years, as soon as possible. 

The committee is deeply appreciative of the action of the Immigi-a- 
tion and Naturalization Service of the United States for changing the 
date of its hearing, previously arranged by them to be conducted in 
this very hearing room today, in order that this congressional com- 
mittee could have this beautiful marble room available for these 
hearings. 

I desire to take this opportunity to thank Superintendent E. A. 
Redlin, who is in charge of this magnificant Federal building. United 
States Marshal Clemens F. Michalski, Chief of Police Polcyn, and 
the capable members of their staffs for the help they have rendered 
this committee in connection with the plans for this hearing. 

I also desire to thank on behalf of the committee Hon. Robert E. 
Tehan and his able secretary. Miss Myron Lynch, for their splendid 
cooperation in making it possible to have this room for this hearing. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 607 

I would remind those present in this hearing room tliat we are liere 
at the direction of the Congress of the United States to discharge a 
highly honorable duty and a specific official obligation that has been 
placed upon us by Public Law COl, enacted by the 79th Congress. 
You are here by permission of this committee throughout the hear- 
ings. I trust that you will conduct yourselves as guests of this com- 
mittee. A disturbance of any kind or audible comment during the 
course of testimon}^, whether favorable or unfavorable to any witness, 
will not be tolerated. 

For infraction of this rule, the offender will be immediately ejected 
from tliis room and not allowed to return. I trust it is necessary to 
only call this matter to your attention once and it will not be necessary 
to have it repeated. 

This committee wants it understood that in the conduct of this hear- 
ing it is not interested in any dispute between employers and employees 
or between one union and another union. Neither is it interested in the 
internal affairs of any union. It proposes to follow, however, and un- 
cover, if it can, to the full limit of its abilities and resources the sub- 
versive Communist conspiracy and activities of any person as to whom 
reliable information indicates Communist Party affiliation and activ- 
ities, whether that be in the field of labor or any other field, and regard- 
less of who the person or group of persons may be. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities consists of nine Mem- 
bers of the House of Kepresentatives. Each member is also a member 
of one other major congressional committee. Since the workload of 
this committee is so constant and heavy, it has been found necessary to 
divide the committee into subcommittees of three members when the 
work takes attention away from Washington, D. C. Thus, the com- 
mittee members are away from the Capitol on less occasions. This ar- 
rangement is also in the interest of saving expense as well as facili- 
tating the necessary work of the committee. On such occasions the 
House of Representatives officially excuses our absence from our other 
daily duties at our Nation's Capital. 

If any person in or about Milwaukee desires to cooperate with this 
committee during our brief stay here, we invite such person to prompt- 
ly see our legal counsel, Mr. Tavenner, or our investigator, Mr. Jones. 
Before I terminate that comment, may I say that, being informed as 
we are that the Milwaukee Bar Association has appointed a panel of 
nine members of the Milwaukee Bar Association to represent before 
this committee any witness who is not able otherwise to have legal 
counsel, we want to very earnestly compliment the Milwaukee Bar As- 
sociation for making that arrangement. Congress takes the position 
before this committee that every witness should, if he desires, have 
legal counsel. 

May I make it clear that the fact that a lawyer appears before this 
commitee as legal counsel for a witness should not be taken as any dis- 
paragement against that lawyer so doing. We invite counsel to be 
present. 

However, may I state a positive limitation on the privilege legal 
counsel has before this committee? Since we are not a court, we do 
not follow strictly the rules of evidence. We permit no lawyer to 
address the committee. We do not have time, and it is not that sort of 
forum. The right of the lawyer to advise his client is limited to the 



608 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

witness' constitutional rights. We do not expect an ethical member of 
the bar to put words in the mouth of the witness. We want the witness' 
testimony and not that of the lawyer. 

Mr. Tavenner, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you please call your first witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. ,Tames R. Eggleston, will you come forward 
please ? 

Mr. Doyle. Will you, please, raise your right hand and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Ec^LESTON. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you, please, be seated ? 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES E. EGGLESTON 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you state your name, please ? 

Mr. Eggleston. James R. Eggleston. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ? 

Mr. Eggleston. E-g-g-1-e-s-t-o-n. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Eggleston, do you appear here before the com- 
mittee in response to a subpena served upon you ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are not accompanied by counsel. 
You probably heard the statement just made by the chairman indicat- 
ing that every witness who appears before this committee is entitled 
to counsel if he desires. 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr, Tavenner. I want to be sure that you understand that. If you 
do not desire counsel now, you still have the opportunity of consult- 
ing an attorney at any time during the course of your testimony. Do 
you desire to proceed without counsel accompanying you ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I desire to proceed without counsel, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. IVlien and where were you born, INIr. Eggleston ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I was born July 13, 1925, in Martinsville, Va. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I attended high school in Martinsville, Va, From 
there I went to Virginia State College ; from Virginia State College to 
the Milwaukee School of Engineering; from the Milwaukee School 
of Engineering to Chicago Tech. 

Mr. Tavenner. What degrees did you receive, if any, upon com- 
pletion ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I am sorry to say I received no degrees. 

Mr. Tax'enner. When did you complete your educational training? 

Mr. Eggleston. I haven't completed it yet. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you terminate your work at college, in 
what year? 

Mr. Eggleston. Fifty-one I think would be correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in the vicinity of Mil- 
waukee ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Since 1947, 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived continuously in Milwaukee since 
1947? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 609 

Mr. Eggleston. For brief periods of 4 or 5 months I have been out 
of the city. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information about the existence 
in Milwaukee of an organization known as the Young Progressives 
of America. Have you had occasion to have any knowledge of that 
organization ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I joined the Young Progressives of America in 
1948. After hearing the political conventions of all the major parties 
in that year, I joinecl that organization, 

Mr. Tavexxer. The committee is desirous of knowing to what 
extent, if any, the work of that organization is being controlled, 
directed, or influenced by the Comnnuiist Party, so my hrst question 
to you about that organization is whether or not during the course 
of your membership you learned of any of its officers being members 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Egglestox. During my membership in that organization the 
chairman of the Young Progressives of America was a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What was the name of the chairman? 

Mr. Egglestox. Betty Gossell. 

Mr. Tamsxxer. Will you spell the last name ? 

Mr. Egglestox. G-o-s-s-e-1-1, 1 believe is correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you tell the committee on what you base your 
statement that Betty Gossell, chairman of the Young Progressives of 
America, wns a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Egglestox. Sometime after I became a member of that organi- 
zation I was approached by Betty Gossell to join the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Can you fix the approximate time when that 
occurred ? 

Mr. Egglestox. I would say that occurred in August of 1949. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Tell the committee, please, just what occurred when 
she approached you to become a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Egglestox, When she approached me to become a member of 
the Communist Party she presented me with an application blank to 
join the Communist Party, and I was reluctant to do so because she 
couldn't tell me what would happen to that application blank after 
I signed it, so I told her as soon as she found out where that appli- 
cation blank was going that I would join the party. During that 
time that she was trying to locate, I would assume, where this appli- 
cation was going, I made my first contact with the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation. 

Mr. Tavexxer. In other words, you became a member of the Young 
Progressives of America out of a conscientious decision on your part 
to join an organization for a definite purpose? 

Mr. E(;glestox. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And after becoming a member of it you were ap- 
pi'oaclied to become a member of the Communist Party by one of its 
officers ? 

Mr. Egglestox-^. Yes. 

Ml-. Tavexxer. Why did you go to the Federal Bureau of Investi- 
gatiou with that information? 

Mr. E(jGLESTox. I would say that was based on the fact that I got 
myself int-o a situation that I could no longer control; that what 
these people were doing not only to the country but to my particular 



610 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

group of people, I couldn't feel that I was able to handle it myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. By a "group of people" are you referring to mem- 
bers of the Negro race ? 

Mr. Egoleston. Yes. So I went to them for, I would say, help, 
and I received the help because I was instructed to join the Communist 
Party and report to them regularly. 

Mr. TA^^EMNER. You agreed at that time, then, to enter the Commu- 
nist Party and furnish the Government important information it was 
interested in obtaining and that you had occasion to learn about ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Witness, is this the first time that it has been made 
public that you worked for the Federal Bureau of Investigation while 
a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. In other words, those associated with you in the Com- 
munist Party during the time that you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party up to this point did not know that you were an under- 
cover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Eggleston. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were instructed by the Federal Bureau of In- 
vestigation to become a member of the Communist Party. What 
developed to give you the opportimity to become a member ? 

Mr. Eggleston. During my association with the Young Progres- 
sives of America, I came to know a group of people who later turned 
out to be members of the Communist Party that I didn't know at the 
time that I was in this group, and while I was associating with these 
people I became very familiar with Mary Keith, who was then in 
charge of the bookshop on Eighth and Wisconsin. While I was at- 
tending school, I used to go down to the bookstore to relieve Mary 
Keith to go out and have lunch. On several occasions after relieving 
her, she came in one day and said, "No one can attend the bookshop 
without being a member of the Communist Party," and Mary Keith 
signed me up as a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. That afforded you an easy opportunity of becoming 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggi>eston. Yes; and she also paid the initiation fee of 50 
cents. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what you know 
about the operation of that bookshop, to what extent it was operated 
by the Communist Party, if at all ? 

Mr. Eggleston. It was operated entirely by the Communist Party 
as a distribution center for their publications. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was the bookshop located ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Eighth and Wisconsin. It was known as the 
Peoples Bookshop. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how long it continued as a Communist 
Party bookshop at that location? 

Mr. Eggleston. I don't remember exactly when it moved, but it 
left Eighth and Wisconsin and moved down to Sixth and State Streets. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did it continue in existence there ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I would say that it closed around the latter part 
of 1951. 

Mr. Tavennfji. How did the Communist Party make use of this 
bookshop ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 611 

Mr. Eggleston. Sellino; its literature, making various contacts to 
individuals or to students who would walk into the bookshop just 
curious to buy literature, and they would be approached by the opera- 
tor of the bookshop on different subjects. 

Mr, Tavenner. You mean that it was used as a recruiting medium? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes ; to a certain extent. 

Mr. Tavenner. To bring persons into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\t]nner. Do you know whether the Communist Party litera- 
ture in this bookshop was distributed to different groups or cells of the 
Communist Party in Milwaukee for their use ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes; the educational director of the youth group 
which I was assigned to used to pick up the literature at the bookshop 
and bring it to the meetings and sell the literature, give education out 
of the literature and bring the literature back to the bookshop that 
wasn't sold. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee approximately the time 
when you were signed up as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I attended my first meeting in September of 1949. 
I would say I was a member approximately 2 weeks before that time. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. How long did you remain active in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Eggleston. I said until the fall of 1951, the early fall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, to what group 
of the Communist Party you Avere assigned when you became a mem- 
ber in September of 1949 ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I was assigned to what has been commonly called 
the youth group of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. What membership did that group have when you 
became a member of it, as nearly as you can recall ? 

Mr. Eggleston. The first meeting that I attended, Bob Silverstine 
and Edith Oilman, at that time, were chairman and cochairman, re- 
spectively. Herb Major, Betty Gossell 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. I want to be certain about the 
spelling of these names. You gave us Silverstine and Betty Gossell. 
You said Herb Major, M-a-j-o-r. 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. Victor Edelstein. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please ? 

Mr. Eggleston. E-d-e-1-s-t-e-i-n. That is correct. And Bernice 
Edelstein. Andy Reams, who was the State chairman, attended this 
first meeting that I attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name ? 

Mr. Eggleston. E-e-a-m-s. Helen Gillman, G-i-1-l-m-a-n. And 
this meeting was held at her home. That is just about all I can think 
of at the present. 

Mr. Tavenner. They were the members of the youth group when 
you first became a member of it ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Milton Spitz was also a member. S-p-i-t-z, I be- 
lieve is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, at this point 
what you learned to be the Communist Party purpose or objective in 
naving a youth organization of the Communist Party ? 



612 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Egglestox. I would say the purpose of the youth group, who 
were considered as the youno; leaders of the Communist Party, was a 
mere steppingstone to the Communist Party itself. 

Mr. Jackson. It was an eifective training ground, was it not, for 
full and later membership in the party itself? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. What were the average ages of the members of this 
young Communist youth group, how young and how old? 

Mr. Eggleston. The beginning age was 18, and I don't think 
there was any terminating age. It was just a matter of when you 
were completely indoctrinated enough to move up to the ranks of a 
full Communist that you were promoted to such. 

Mr. Taatsnner. Did you attain a position of leadership in this youth 
group of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Eggleston. My first meeting I was elected as organizational 
secretary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any other positions at a later time? 

Mr. Eggleston. Later I became chairman of that group. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period that you were a member of that 
group, did you have occasion to from time to time meet with other 
groups of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I met with the leadership of the Communist Party 
on a number of occasions and what you could probably call the ex- 
ecutive board of the Communist Party, which never consisted of its 
full membership except at one meeting which I attended, which I 
doubt if it was the full membershi]). 

Mr. Wiixis. Do you mean the executive board of Milwaukee or of 
the State? 

Mr. Eggleston. The executive board of the State. 

Mr. Tai-enner. Will you tell the committee why you, as a member 
of the youth group, were permitted to meet with the top level group 
of the Communist Party in the State of Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Eggleston. To discuss the plans of the youth group. They 
would formulate the plans that were to be carried out by this particu- 
lar group, in fact, all the groups in Wisconsin, and we would discuss 
different matters to be carried out in this group plus into a newly 
formed organization called the Labor Youth League, the YPA, and 
so forth, and the Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, ]:)lease, about your at- 
tendance at that meeting, where it was held, and everything that you 
can recall about it ? 

Mr. Eggleston. The largest meeting of this body was held at Ester 
Eisenscher's place on 12th Street. She was the secretary of the Com- 
munist Party. Members present there were Josephine Nordstrand, 
;N'.o-r-d-s-t-r-a-n-d. Bill Herron H-e-r-r-o-n, Jack Kling. 

Mr. Tavenner. You told us that Ester Eisenscher was secretary of 
the Communist Party. Did you mean of the State organization ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Of the State, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In giving us the names of these other ])ersons, I 
wish you would identify them, if you can, as to what position they 
held in the Communist Party besides being members of the executive 
board. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Jackson. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 613 

Mr. Jackson. I would think it would also be a good idea if the 
witness has any knowledge of their subsequent status to state whether 
or not they left the party or were expelled. 

Mr. DoVle. That would be very appropriate if the witness will do 
that, and I know counsel will give him the opportunity to do so. 

Mr. Eggleston. The last gentleman that I named, Bill Herron, was 
the chairman of the Xegro commission of the Communist Party, and 
he is dead at the present time, so I don't think we need to discuss him 
any longer. Jack Kling was at this meeting and he was the chair- 
man of "the Communist Party of the State. I was present at this 
meeting. 

Mr. ScHERER. What happened to him ? 
. Mr. Egglestox. He disappeared when the party began to go under- 
ground. 

]\[r. ScHERER. "\^lien did he disappear ? 

Mr. Egglestox. This was in the latter part of 1951, I would say, or 
the early part of 1952. 

INIr. ScTiERER. Were you still in the i^arty at that time ? 

Mr. Egglestox. No, I left the party in 1951. 

Mr. ScHERER. You haven't heard of him since ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Xo. 

Mr. vScHERER. What was his occupation? 

Mr. Egglestox. He was the chairman of the Communist Party of 
the State. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did he have an}' other occupation ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Xo. 

Mr. Scherer. That was his full-time job? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. He and others active in the Connnunist Party dis- 
appeared at the time they went underground ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. 

IVIr. Doyle. "\Miat was the occasion that you know of for them going 
underground or what was the reputed reason for them going under- 
ground ? 

Mr. Egglestox. After the INIcCarran immigration bill was passed, 
I think that was the starting point for them to go underground. 

]Mr. Ta\t:xxer. Are you referring to the McCarran Immigration 
Act or the McCarran Security Control Act ? 

]Mr. Egglestox. I am sorry. Security Control Act which required 
registration of the party. 

]\Ir. Tavexxer. That is known as the SubA^ersive Activities Con- 
trol Act of 1950. 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. That can be further identified as Public Law 831 of 
the 81st Congress, the Subversive Activities Control Act, which came 
to the House of Representatives on the bill H. R. 9400 and was recom- 
mended by this committee. 

(Representative Jackson left the room.) 

Mr. Doyle. I might at this point read from the text of the act. 

Sec. 2. As a result of evidence adduced before various committees of the 
Senate and House of Representatives, the Congress hereby finds that — 

(1) There exists a world Communist movement which, in its origins, its 
development, and its present practice, is a worldwide revolutionary movement 



614 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

whose purpose it is, by treachery, deceit, infiltration into other groups (govern- 
mental and otherwise), espionage, sabotage, terrorism, and any other means 
deemed necessary, to establish a Communist totalitarian dictatorship in the 
countries throughout the world through the medium of a worldwide Communist 
organization. 

Thank you, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, please, with the statement of 
identification of other persons present at that meeting ? 

(Representative Jackson returned to the room.) 

Mr. Eggleston. Fred Blair was present at this particular meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you, please, tell us who Fred Blair was ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Fred Blair was the vice chairman of the Commu- 
nist Party of the State. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his subsequent activity was in 
the party, what he did after that time or where he is now ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I have no idea as to where he is now. Of course, his 
subsequent activities, I don't know of any except that he devoted 
full time to the party. 

Mr. ScHERER. Would you consider him one of the Communist lead- 
ers that went underground the same as Kling? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of others that were present 
at that meeting ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Not at this time. I think that is about the bulk of it. 

Mr. Tavtenner. Can you recall at this time the names of any other 
persons who attended similar meetings, that is, other meetings of this 
top-level executive committee when you were present ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I am sorry. There is one other name that should 
be on that list, Douglas McCain, M-c-C-a-i-n, who was at this par- 
ticular meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position did he hold in the Communist Party 
besides being a member of this particular committee? 

Mr. Eggleston. He was the chairman of the sixth ward group of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was meant by the "sixth ward group of the 
Communist Party" ? 

Mr. Eggleston. It was a section of the city. The city is broken up 
into wards, and he was in charge of that particular ward. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know anything of his subsequent activities? 

Mr. Eggleston. No, I don't. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I think it might be interesting and 
apropos to state at this time that there is abundant testimony to indi- 
cate that the leadership echelon of the Communist Party did indeed 
connnence to go underground in 1951 and 1952 upon instructions from 
the Communist Party of the United States. I think you will recall, 
Mr. Chairman, the witness Barbara Hartle in Seattle, who was a co- 
operative witness before this committee, had been instructed by the 
party to leave Seattle and to take up lier i-esidence in a small com- 
munity in Oregon wliere she was employed as a waitress. Previously 
she had held a top-drawer job with the party in King County, was a 
Phi Beta Kappa, but without question she accepted her assignment to 
leave the city and go elsewhere. Contact was maintained with her by 
a courier system directed by tlie Communist Party of King County. 
iUnquestionably the matter to which this witness is referring is 
exactly the same as that found in the Northwest. 



COMIMITNIST ACTH^ITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 615 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 

May I ask you, for purposes of identification on the record, to fur- 
ther identify Mrs. Hartle, what happened in the jury trial at Seattle 
and where she now is. 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Hartle, who was a top Communist functionary 
in Seattle, was indicted under the provisions of the Smith Act together 
with a number of other leaders of the Communist Party in King^ 
County. They all were convicted. Following the conviction, Mrs. 
Hartle broke with the Communist Party, gave extensive testimony 
to this committee during a week-long hearnig in the Seattle area. 
She was attended at all times by a United States deputy marshal 
during the course of the testimony and is now serving her sentence in 
the Federal Reformatory at Alderson, W. Va. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 

As I recall, Mr, Jackson, as a matter of record, that was another case 
where an American jury and a United States court found the defend- 
ant guilty in connection with advocating or teaching the use of force 
and violence to forcibly overthrow the American constitutional form 
of government, isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Jackson. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I state, in elaboration of what 
the Congressman said about the testimony of Barbara Hartle, that she 
gave this testimony to this committee, not only after she was convicted,, 
but after she was sentenced, and that she assigned the reason for her 
not making known her willingness to talk about her experiences until 
after she had been sentenced the fact that she was afraid if she spoke 
before she was sentenced the public might believe she was testifying 
out of a desire to have the sentence be made more lenient as far as she 
was concerned, so she did not testify until after she was sentenced. 

Will you tell the committee, please, just what the interest of the 
Communist Party was as indicated to you in this top-level meeting of 
the Communist Party in youth work? 

Mr. Eggleston. One of the main things that was discussed at this 
meeting was my position as chairman of the youth group, whether I 
was to become chairman of this particular youth group or not and,, 
after the leadership had approved me as being chairman, it was just a 
matter of filtering the w^ord down to the members to elect me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you could not be elected to that position of 
leadership by the members of your own group until it had been ap- 
proved by the top-level functionaries of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you given at this meeting or any other meet- 
ings of this top-level group any views of that group with regard to 
other work of the Communist Party among youth in this area? 

Mr. Eggleston. Not at this particular meeting. • 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Were there any meetings of this top-level group at 
which organizational work among mass organizations or youth groups 
generally was discussed ? 

Mr. Eggleston. There were meetings but it didn't consist of this 
large a number. There were 4 or 5 people present in which we dis- 
cussed the elections in the Labor Youth League, in the YPA 

G3796— 55— pt. 1 2 



616 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. By YPA you mean Young Progressives of Amer- 
ica? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes — and the Civil Rights Congress as to what 
action would be taken in those organizations on certain issues and 
how they would go about them and formulate the plans for these 
particular groups. 

Mr. ScHERER. The purpose of the Communist Party, then, was to 
infiltrate various youth groups so that they would be controlled and 
dominated by the Communist Party, is that right? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. And the Communist Party would set the programs 
and objectives of these organizations? 

Mr. Eggleston". That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this of the witness: You just related that 
there were not as many in these other meetings of the top leaders of the 
Communist Party in Mihvaukee as there had been at this larger 
meeting ? 

Mr. EIggleston. Yes. 

Mr. DoYEE. When the Communist Party top-level leaders from the 
whole State of Wisconsin were present? 

Mr. Eggleston. Well, you say the whole State of Wisconsin. To 
my knowledge all the people on the executive board of the Communist 
Party were from Milwaukee. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean the full membership of the Coimnunist Party 
for the State of Wisconsin were all residents of the Milwaukee area? 

Mr. Eggleston. On this executive board all that I knew were from 
the Milwaukee area. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. What year was that ? 

Mr. Eggleston. 1950 and 1951. 

Mr. Doyle. It looks as though Milwaukee was rather a hot spot. 

Mr. Eggleston. I would say so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were the heafl'uuirters for the Communist 
Party for the State of Wisconsin located ? 

]Mr. Egglestox. I think it was 622 North Second Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was in the city of Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a fact, is it not, that membership on high 
functionary gi'oups of the Communist Party was selected for qualifi- 
cations rather than from geographical areas ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that this top-level group was in- 
terested in the work of these various groups that you named. But 
before going into that, let me ask you what the activities of this 
young Communist group of the Communist Party were, how did you 
meet, where did you meet and what did you do? 

Mr. Eggleston. The action taken by the young Communist Party 
was filtered out into other organizations. I don't recall taking any 
positive action on any particular issue as a Communist Party group. 
It was all filtered out into the Labor Youth League, Civil Rights Con- 
gress, and the Young Progressives of America. 

We met at various homes and in different meeting halls and dis- 
cussed these various things, but the activity was actually carried out 
in the front oro-anization. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 617 

Mr. ScHERER. Were the young Communists actually successful in 
infiltrating these organizations you mentioned? We understand that 
was your program. 

Mr. Eggleston. To answer that question, I have to give you an 
opinion. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is what I want. 

Mr. Eggleston. As far as the Communist Party was concerned if 
they got one person in an organization it is a victory. In my personal 
opinion, I don't think it was successful. If they got one person into 
an organization, that was a gre^it accomplishment for the party. 

jNIr. Doyle. You mean that the Communist Party estimated that 
if they succeeded in getting one of their top-level young people into 
a non-Communist organization that then they had been successful as 
Communists? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes, they had been. They would work from that 
person on to go through. In fact, I can cite one incident, since you 
brought it up. Victor Edelstein was working at Allis-Chalmers, 
and i)eople who were working into shop groups or working into auto 
factoi-ies were not assigned to work into any other organizations but 
to concentrate in their unions. But Victor Edelstein wanted to take 
on some extra activity so he went into the Xational Association for 
the Advancement of Colored People, and the party considered that a 
great victory because he was accepted into that organization. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand, then, that a policy of the Young 
Communist group in Milwaukee at that time was directed by the State 
executive committee which had its headquarters in Milwaukee, and 
their policy was to try to get one of the Communists in each organi- 
zation and in each labor union? 

Mr. Egglestox. I would say not each labor union but as many as 
were working in these ]:>articuiar factories to get into these unions. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, in each factory where members were 
working it was their direction and assignment to infiltrate into the 
labor union which was representing the workers in that particular 
industrial plant? 

Mr. P^ggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Aiul they figured it was a victory if they could get just 
one Communist in that group ? 

Mr. Egglestox. They would, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. How could one Communist in such a group do anything 
that would be considered a victory by the Communist Party? Do 
you mean that one Conmiunist could influence the whole union? 

Mr. P]gglestox. There is a method of operation that when a Com- 
munist goes out into a labor union or into any other organization that 
if they meet another individual who thinks along the same lines as 
they do on any particular issue they will work with that particular 
individual to bring him over into their line of thinking. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask you to speak just a little louder? I cannot 
(juite hear you. 

Mr. Egglestox. If the Communist member will meet one non- 
Connnunist who thinks on one issue, political or nonpolitical, the same, 
they will work with that individual until they brirtg him over to their 
way of thinking. 

Mr. Dovle. As a Communist? 



618 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Eggleston". As a Communist. So one Communist in one labor 
union can be very dangerous. 

Mr. ScHERER. It only takes one individual to report classified infor- 
mation to the Communist leaders, doesn't it ? 

Mr. Eggleston. That is all, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, whether it be one individual with 
whom the Communist Party will parallel a cause, the extension of 
that, of course, is the minority group where the Communist Party will 
take up a cause within a minority party for the purpose of winning 
support amongst that group. 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. You advised us that the principal activity of the 
youth group of the Communist Party was to go out into other organi- 
zations and work ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have named those organizations. What were 
they ? I want to be certain to get them in the record here. 

Mr. Eggleston. I think the organizations that I previously gave 
you were organizations you could classify as being front organizations 
for the party. 

There were some organizations that they were sent out to work in 
that you couldn't classify as front organizations. One was the Na- 
tional Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the Jewish 
Center, church groups. Those were the three main outside groups 
that you couldn't classify as front organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course those were organizations which were not 
in any sense Communist organizations ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Without going into detail, was there any marked 
measure of success in any of those three groups that you mentioned ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I would say the biggest accomplishment came in 
the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told the committee about this class of 
organizations which were mainly not Communist organizations which 
the young group of the Communist Party had endeavored to infil- 
trate. There were other groups, however, which were of a Commu- 
nist origin, or, at least. Communist-front character, where you did 
considerable work, I believe ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were those organizations ? 

Mr. Eggleston. The organizations in which we did considerable 
amount of front work within were the Labor Youth League, the Civil 
Eights Congress, and the Young Progressives of America, plus a lot 
of other peace committees that were formed out of the growth of these 
three other actual front organizations. I don't recall the name now 
of this particular peace committee, but it was going very strong during 
the time of the Korean war. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us go back to the Labor Youth League. Will 
you tell us, please, about the work of the Communists in that group? 

Mr. Eggleston, At one meeting of the Young Communist Party, 
Victor Edelstein was the chairman of that group at the time, and he 
came in and he said, "We are going to consider this meeting as being 
a Labor Youth League meeting. This was regularly called as the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 619 

Communist Party group." He said, "We are going to consider this 
meeting as the Labor Youth League meeting ; and when we have Labor 
Youth League meetings, you can bring in anyone you like to come to 
these meetings." 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it was another instance in which 
the youth group of the Communist Party just adjourned as the Com- 
munist Party and became a meeting of the Labor Youth League, in 
effect? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the type of work that the Labor Youth 
League engaged in ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Peace petitions, passing out leaflets, picket lines. 

Mr. ScHERER. 'Wlien you said passing out leaflets, of course, you 
mean Communist Party leaflets ? 

Mr. Eggleston. No Communist Party leaflets, but Labor Youth 
League leaflets. 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes ; but carrying the Conununist Party line ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Actually written by members of the Communist 
Party? 

jMr. Eggleston. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. Carrying the Labor Youth League label ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Label? 

Mr. Scherer. As having been issued by the Labor Youth league? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you completed describing the nature of the 
activities of that organization? 

Mr. Eggleston. I would say that that is about the extent of the 
activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the names of the officers of the Labor 
Youth I^eague who were known to you to be members of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Eggleston. I think it is going to be pretty hard for me to 
actually pinpoint that question because I can name members of the 
Communist Party who were in the Labor Youth League but I am not 
sure whether they all held positions except one. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. ChaiiTnan, on that point, the Labor Youth 
League has been found by the Subversive Activities Control Board to 
be a subversive organization. Without any connotation as to the 
membership of these officers, it is a matter of public record some- 
where, and I will suggest that the names of the officers of the Labor 
Youth League, without connotation as to membership, be entered 
into the record. 

Mr. Doyle. Yes ; I think that is correct. 

Mr, Tavenner. In other words, will you give the committee the 
names of the officers of the Labor Youth League, irrespective of 
whether you knew them as members of the Communist Party or not? 

Mr. Eggleston. Mark Berman, B-e-r-m-a-n. He was the founding 
chairman of that group. 

Mr. Scherer. In what year was that ? 

Mr. Eggleston. This was in 1950. And Ted Silverstine held a po- 
sition in that group, too. I don't recall what it was. Lil Rody was 
also a member of that group. R-o-d-y. That is about the bulk of 



620 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

the leadership that I can recall of people who had offices in that 
oro-anization. 

]Mr. Jacksox. Mr. Chairman, may I make an observation at this 
point ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. I think it shonld be noted in the record that only 
last week a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties heard testimony or lack of testimony from five present officials 
of the Labor Youth League, all of whom availed themselves of their 
])rivileo-e under the fifth amendment of the Constitution to avoid 
.•mswerino- any questions having to do with their activities in the 
Labor Youth League or activities within the Communist Party. 

Certainly, if there is any fuzzy thinking today on any campus in 
t his country with respect to the activity of the Labor Youth League, 
it can be put at rest by reading the transcript of the testimony of the 
national officers of the Labor Youth League. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 

That meeting was held at the Capitol ; was it not? 

Mr. Jacksox. It was in Washington last week. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether any 
of those persons you named were known to you to be members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. All that I have named were members of the Com- 
munist Party. I collected dues from them as the organizational 
secretary. 

Mr. Willis. I think you misunderstood awhile ago when you were 
asked to name ])eople who were officers as well as members of the 
Communist Party. I think what you are trying to indicate to us 
was that you knew them all as being Communists, but you did not 
know them as olHcers. Was not that what you were trying to tell us? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes; but he threw the question back at me the 
same way. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Will you give us the names of other persons, irre- 
spective of whether they may have been officers or not, who were mem- 
bers of the Labor Youth League ? 

Mr. Egglestox. All Commies who were in the Labor Youth League ? 

Mr. Tavex'X'er. Yes. 

Mr. Egglestox. Bert Levine ; I don't think I have mentioned him 
before. 

Mr. Scherer. Where is he today ? 

Mr. Egglestox. He is in Milwaukee. I don't know where he is or 
where he is working, but he is still in Milwaukee. Bert Levine, Mark 
Berman, Sidney Berger. B-e-r-g-e-r. Phyllis Berger. Harriett 
Berger. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are either of the two related to Sidney Berger? 

Mr. Egglestox. Harriett is Sidney's sister and Phyllis is his wife. 
Ted Silverstine, Bob Silverstine, Edith Silveistine, Herl) Major, Jack 
Killian, Gloria Killian. I think that is the extent of it. 

Mr. Willis. You mean that those are the ones you can remember 
at this time? 

Mr. Egglestox". Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 621 

Mr. Willis. And I note for the record by the way that you have 
been testifying here this morning without any notes of any kind. 
Is that right? 

Mr. Egglesto?^. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask one question ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jacksox. In line with the question of the gentleman from 
Louisiana, have you been promised any inducement or reward of any 
kind for your appearance before this committee ? 

Mr. Eggleston. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you being paid for testifying before this committee? 

Mr. Eggleston. Not unless you are paying me. I don't know a 
thing about it . 

Mr. Jackson. He is not. 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Eecess was taken from 11 : 20 to 11 : 28 a. m.) 

(Those present: Representatives Doyle, Willis, Scherer, and Jack- 
son.) 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will come to order, and the record will 
please show that the same Members of Congress present at the open- 
ing of the hearing this morning are now personally present. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavexner. Mr. Eggleston, as the committee adjourned for the 
5-minute recess, you came forward to my desk to state that you wanted 
to explain part of the answer tliat you had given to the other question 
because there might have been some ground for misrepresentation. I 
tried to get the committee back immediately, but all except one had 
left the hearing room. What is the matter that you wanted to ex- 
plain ? 

Mr. EtciGLESTOx. The two names that I mentioned last I think were 
Jack and Gloria Killian. Wliile they were members of the Labor 
Youth League, I lia^'e no direct knowledge of them being members 
of the Communist Party. 

j\Ir. Tavexxer. Thank you very much for making that ex})lanation. 
You said one of the other groups in which the youth of the Communist 
Party was active was the Young Progressives of America. Explain 
that, please. 

Mr. Egglestox. In our youth group meetings of the Communist 
Party we discussed the leadership of the Young Progi'essives of 
America and we assigned certain members of this group to work in 
that organization, and one person that was a member of the Com- 
munist Party at the same time that I was that we discussed as being the 
chairman of that group was Mike Ondrejka. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you apeW the last name ? 

Mr. Egglestox. 0-n-d-r-e-j-k-a, I tliink is correct. Betty Gossell 
was the chairman and Mike Ondrejka. Those were tlie only two 
chairmen that they had while I was in the grouij. 

Mr. Tan^exxer. They were chairmen during the entire period that 
you were in the group ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And both of tlieni were members of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. 



622 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know at that time that Mr. Ondrejka was 
in the Communist Party under a relationship with the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation? 

Mr, Eggleston, I had no idea, sir, that he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mr. Ondrejka knew that you 
were? 

Mr. Eggleston. I doubt seriously if he did. 

Mr. ScHERER. Still they didn't have sufficient appropriations that 
year to give you the 50 cents to join the party. Did you say you bor- 
rowed that or did she pay it? 

Mr. Eggleston. I told her I didn't have the initiation fee. I was a 
student at that time and all students are poor, so I used the excuse 
that I didn't have the 50 cents. 

Mr. Scherer. You mean that the Federal Bureau of Investigation 
didn't give you the 50 cents to join the party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I didn't ask them for it, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I think that the least the Bureau 
should do would be to pay the dues of its agents to join the Communist 
Party even if it requires an increased appropriation. 

Mr. ScHERER. They will be back next year after this testimony for 
increased appropriations. 

Mr. Eggleston. I might add, sir, that while I was in the Commu- 
nist Party, I paid my own dues. 

Mr. Doyle. I think it is at least a little evidence, Mr. Jackson and 
members, of the unselfish and patriotic devotion to our country in these 
men that do volunteer to the FBI to go into the Communist Party a-s 
agents and pay their own dues. I think that is wonderful. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the nature of 
the activities in which the Young Progressives of America engaged ? 

Mr. Eggleston. To classify these organizations into, say, stepping- 
stones, the Young Progressives of America was at the bottom of the 
list. They would take in members who came in with a common inter- 
est on any subject, vei^ broad. Wlien you came into YPA you were 
just another member. You had no special qualifications whatsoever. 
After staying in that organization for some time you could elevate 
youi-self to a Labor Youth I^eague and then from the Labor Youth 
League you would go right into the party. It was merely a training 
program as one of the Congressmen pointed out. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the nature of the training program that 
was offered ? 

Mr. Eggleston. To find out or a feeler to find out how the individual 
felt on certain issues, as to whether they could Avork on peace petitions, 
whether they would go and pass out leaflets, and so forth. If you 
could do all of those things, you automatically elevate yourself to 
these other organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether there 
was an effort to teach Marxism in the Young Progressives of America ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Only in its broadest sense. I doubt if anyone could 
actually detect the teaching in this group as being Marxist or Leninist. 

Mr. ScHERER. It was purposely not defined as Marxism or Leninism, 
was it not? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, it was not. 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 623 

Mr. ScHERER. Because if it were revealed that that was what they 
were teaching, the teaching might stop ? 

Mr. Eggleston. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you offered any course of training in Marxism 
or Communist Party ideology from the time of your first membership 
in the Communist Party while a member of the Young Progressives of 
America on through to the time of the termination of your member- 
ship ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I attended classes on socialism held at the Mil- 
waukee Hall and at a residence on West Vliet Street. This par- 
ticular class in socialism was taught by Murray Wolf son, who is under 
subpena from this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I doubt if I can. W-o-l-f-s-o-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the first name spelled M-u-r-r-y or M-u-r-r-a-y. 
Do you know ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I think it is M-u-r-r-a-y. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Under what auspices was this school, which you 
attended, being conducted ? 

Mr. Eggleston. This was under the auspices of the Communist 
Party and only Communist Party members attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you attend that school ? Can you fix the 
date? 

Mr. Eggleston. I doubt if I can pin it down, sir, to any particular 
date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other teachers there besides Murray 
Wolf son, while you were in attendance ? 

Mr. Eggleston. He was the only teacher at this particular class. 
There were other classes, one that Andy Eeams taught at the Mil- 
waukee Hall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this a school or were these study groups ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I really don't know now. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. There might be a difference between whether it was 
conducted as a school or just as a class or group. 

Mr. Eggleston. I would say it was just a class. 

Mr. Scherer. A series of lectures or something like that ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. I think the book we were studying out of was 
Political Economy by Eaton. 

Mr. Doyle. Might I ask whether they were day or night classes? 

Mr. Eggleston. All night classes. 

Mr. Willis. How many days a week ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Once a week. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat was the average attendance, please ? 

Mr. Eggleston. The average attendance I would say approxi- 
mately 10. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did I understand you to say it was conducted exclu- 
sively for members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of others who were in 
attendance at these classes? 

Mr. Eggleston. Mary Keith attended the class. Agnes Slater at- 
tended this class. I think Grace Eisenscher attended the class. Sig 
Eisenscher visited the class. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said "Sig." Does that mean Sigmund ? 



624 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

]Mr. Eggleston. Sigmund Eisensclier visited the class. 

The place that the class was taught was the duplex of Sig and Grace 
Eisensclier. It was upstairs. 1 don't know who lived upstairs and 
who lived downstairs now, but it was in the same residence. My 
memory is pretty vague on the rest of the members there. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you have to pay anything for these lectures ? 

Mr. Eggleston. There was a fee involved in these lectures. If I 
remember correctly it was $2 and the $2 paid for the book and the fee 
for the class. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did the lecturers or teachers whom you mentioned 
receive any compensation for lecturing or teaching? 

iSIr. Eggleston. I am not sure about this statement, but I think that 
at the time Murray Wolfson was staying in Madison, he was com- 
pensated for his travel expenses. I am not sure about that. 

Mr. Doyle. About how many weeks did this class continue its 
sessions ? 

Mr. Eggleston. That I couldn't say, sir, because I dropped out of 
it. I think I attended about 6 sessions. 

Mr. Doyle. You attended for at least 6 weeks ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. SciiERER. You reported regularly to the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation, did you not, the subjects that were under discussion? 

Mr. Eggleston. The subjects that were under discussion as long as 
they were pure socialism I didn't report them but remarks or state- 
ments that deviated from socialism or had any implications whatso- 
ever I did report them. 

Mr. SciiEKER. You reported to the FBI practically everything you 
did in connection with Communist Party activities, did you not? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you selected for this training or did you re- 
quest the right to attend this class ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I was approached by Andy Reams to attend these 
classes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names, please, of any persons 
who were members of the Young Progressives of America who were 
also known to you to be members of the Communist Party in addition 
to the two who acted as chairmen ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Helen Oilman and John Gilman were members of 
that group that I knew as party members. In fact, I think it would 
be very safe to say, and I am positive it is correct to take all of the 
members of the Communist Party and say they were YPA members. 
I don't recall anyone now who wasn't a member of the Young Progres- 
sives of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know hoAv many organizations of the YPA 
there were in the State of Wisconsin ? 

JNIr. Eggleston. I know of a branch in Madison and they tried to 
form a branch in Eacine, which I don't think was very successful. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether there were organizations of 
the Labor Youth League in any places in the State of Wisconsin in 
addition to Milwaukee? 

]\Ir. Eggleston. I only knew of Madison and Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a meeting of the group at 
Madison? 

INIr. Eggleston. Xo. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 625 

Mr. Tavenxer. Did you ever meet any members of the group from 
Madison ? 

Mr. Egglestox. I only heard reports given at meetings by the sec- 
retary of the Communist Party as to what was going on in Madison. 

JVli*. Tavexxek. If you can recall what the reports were, w^e would 
like to hear them, but do not mention the names of any persons that 
were given to you in the nature of a report. 

Mr. Egglestox^^. The reports that I remember were very general, 
just stated tluit the organization was forming and what was going on 
in Madison that they were recruiting members and so forth. 

Mr. Jacksox". AVas this on the campus of the university ? 

Mr. Egglestox'. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever travel to any other part of Wisconsin in 
connection with your Communist Party activities? 

Mr. Egglestox. I made trips to Racine and Madison. 

]Mr. Doyle. What tyj^e of work did you do in each of those places 
for the Communist Party? 

Mr. Egglestox. I si)oke at a founding meeting they called at Racine 
for WPA and the work that I did in Madison was in connection w4th 
the sharecroppers workers coming to Madison. They had some 
trouble up there, and we went up to do some work on that. That was 
in connection with the Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Doyle. Was that while you were identified with the FBI ? 

Mr. Egglestox^ Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you not find it rather difficult to preach communism 
and also be an FBI agent? 

]Mr. P^GGLESTox. I didn't find it too difficult out of the city, sir, be- 
cause I wasn't afraid of any of my friends knowing me, but in the 
city it was pretty hard. 

Mr. ScHEREH. You said there was some difficulty in Racine? 

Mr. Egglestox. In ]\[adison. 

iNIr. Scheker. What was that difficulty i 

Mr. Egglestox. The sharecroppers had been brought to Madison 
undei- false pretenses and they were complaining about the conditions 
that they had to live under. 

Mr. SciTEKEK. Why did the Connnunist Party interest itself in that 
situation? 

Mr. Egglestox. It was an opportunity for the party to explore or 
publicize the situation. These sharecroppers were Negroes coming to 
Madison to work on this particular farm and they saw an opportunity 
to publicize it. 

Mr. Doyle. In otlier words, Mr. Witness, the Communist Party was 
capitalizing upon a temporary emergency in the field of labor to 
propagandize ? 

]\Ir. Egglestox. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. On their own behalf as contradistinguished against 
what they claimed was unfair handling of the problem ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Egglestox'. Yes. 

Mr. SciiERER. You found out from your experience that they were 
not actually interested in the problems of these sharecro]:>pers but 
merely wanted to exploit the problem, as Mr. Doyle said, for the 
advantage of the party? 



626 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Eggleston. Well, the answer to that question, since this par- 
ticular group were Negroes, I can state that I found out that the party 
wasn't interested in the Negroes at all. 

Mr. Willis. Do you mean in this instance or in other instances ? 

Mr. Eggleston. In any instance. 

Mr. ScHERER. They pretended to be interested in problems of the 
Negro race, did they not? 

Mr. Eggleston. They did. 

Mr. ScHERER, For the purpose of gaining converts? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, 

Mr. Jackson. They still do, do they not? 

Mr. Eggleston. They still try. 

Mr. Jackson. It has again been abundantly evidenced before this 
committee in other hearings by Negro citizens who have gone in with 
high hopes that here was the answer, here was really an organiza- 
tion which had their best interests at heart, only to come out a year 
or 2 years or 3 years later thoroughly disillusioned with what they 
found as compared to what they expected or hoped to find. 

Mr. Willis. That was exactly your experience, as I understand, 
and was a motivating cause for you to go to the FBI because you 
thought they were simply exploiting your race. 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Did it come to your attention while you were in the 
Communist Party that they were ever advocating the teaching, di- 
rectly or indirectly, that there should be a Negro state or a Negro 
nation at sometime in the future? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, sir ; there has been talk of that. I wouldn't 
say there was general information through the sense that everyone 
was told at once, but I was told that by the chairman of the Commu- 
nist Party in a dinner meeting at his home. 

Mr. Doyle. May I explore that, then, because I did not know what 
your answer would be when I asked it? I have had distinguished 
Negro citizens tell me in some previous meetings that they were taught 
that the Communist Party advocated a separate Negro state in the 
United States of America. Who was the Communist leader that dis- 
cussed that in his home? 

Mr. Eggleston. Andy Reams. 

Mr. Doyle. In approximately what year? 

Mr. Eggleston. This was in the latter part of 1949 or early 1950. 

Mr. Doyle. What was the occasion of this Communist Party leader 
telling you that the Communist Party favored the establishment of a 
separate Negro state in the United States? Was it at a Communist 
meeting or just a conversation between you and him? 

Mr. Eggleston. It was just a conversation between Andy, his wife, 
and myself. 

Mr. Doyle. Can you tell us the substance of the conversation? 
What did they say and what did you say ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I do remember. It is very important. To reveal 
such is strictly confidential between the FBI and myself. 

Mr. Doyle. Then you cannot answer? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Well, I do not know. What was strictly confiden- 
tial? 

Mr. Eggleston. The method that he asked me about. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 627 

Mr. ScHERER. I think we should get that method in executive 
session. 

Mr. Egglestoist. There I could probably reveal it, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am sure you could. 

Mr. Doyle. But for the purpose of this record, we are to under- 
stand, Mr. Witness, that Andy Eeams told you that. Did he tell 
you that on more than one occasion ? 

Mr. Eggleston. No; just on this particular occasion. 

Mr. Doyle. There is no question in your mind now that he made 
it clear that the Communist Party in the United States advocated 
the establishment of a separate Negro state or republic in the United 
Stats of America? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was Andy Keams a Negro ? 

Mr. Eggleston. No; he wasn't. 

Mr. ScHERER. Establishment of a separate Negro state is entirely 
contrary to what the Negro leaders in the country want, is it not ? 

Mr. Egglestok. Exactl}^, sir. 

]\Ir. ScHERER. And you learned that the idea for the establishment 
of a separate Negro state came from Eussia where they did not under- 
stand the attitude of the Negro leaders or the Negro people in this 
country with reference to the establishment of such a state ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Didn't the Communist Party soon abandon the idea 
of having a separate Negro state when they found that they just could 
not sell that idea to the American Negro? 

Mr. P^ggleston. I don't know about the abandoning of the idea, 
but this was told to me as an idea in tlie latter part of 1949 or the early 
part of 1950 or 1951. If they abandoned it, it was after that. 

Mr. ScHERER. I believe we had some testimony to the effect that 
the Communist hierarchy abandoned that idea when they found out 
that the Negroes in the country just would not be sold on such a 
proposition. 

Mr. DoYLE. Mr. Scherer, you are emphasizing that the American 
Negro was so patriotic and loyal to the United States of America 
that the false Communist program to establish a Negro State in our 
country did not get anywhere. 

Mr. Scherer. That is true. 

The Communist Party was perhaps less successful in converting 
Negroes to its cause than converting any other group. That has 
been the testimony before this committee. I think it also demon- 
strates the fact that some of these programs do originate directly 
from the Kremlin, because I do not believe that any responsible Com- 
munist in this country would have thought of such an idea because 
they would have realized that it was directly contrary to anything 
that the Negro people in this country would go for. 

Mr. Doyle. They may not have thought of it in this country, but 
they certainly tried to put it across. 

Mr. Scherer. They had to because of orders. 

Mr. Doyle. From Moscow. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any other facts in mind which were 
important to you in your conclusion that the Communist Party was 
endeavoring to use the members of your race for their own objectives 



628 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

as distinguished from accomplishing something for the good of the 
people of your race ? 

Mr. Egglestox. When certain Negro organizations were working 
to get Xegroes into the brewery here in Milwaukee a reliable source 
informed me that if the Communists had kept hands off, the Negroes 
M^ould have been liired months before but they delayed the situation 
by ])ublicizing and passing out leaflets, and so forth. 

Mr. WiLiJS. Yes. And I can well understand that they were 
harming your cause. 

Mr. Egglestox. Harming the cause instead of helping it. 

Mr. Willis. Harming it because they really had to? 

Mr. Eggleston. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us come now directly to the activity of the youth 
group of the Communist Party within the Civil Rights Congress. 
Tliat is the third group that you mentioned. 

Mr. Eggleston. Out of the youth gi-oup into the Civil Eights Con- 
gress I would say that I was the most active individual out of this 
group and in this group we would write leaflets and collect fund drives, 
and so forth, for different issues, peace petitions, and so forth. 

Mr. Scherer. You did those things, however, as the result of direc- 
tives that you received from higher ups in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. And my higher up in the Civil Eights Con- 
gress was Josephine Nordstrand. They directed me to write differ- 
ent leaflets for different things. 

Mr. Willis. Where was she from ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. She, as I understand it, was the head of the Civil 
Rights Congress. 

Air, Eggleston. Yes, 

Mr. Willis. In Milwaukee or in Wisconsin, or do you know? 

Mr. Eggleston. T would say Wisconsin, because there were chapters 
in Eacine, and I think they tried to form a chapter in Madison, and 
she was in charge of all of them. 

Mr. SciTERER. What I am trying to point out is that you, as an 
undercover agent of the FBI, did not initiate these programs yourself. 

JMr. Eggleston. No. 

Mr. Scherer. You were merely carrying out a directive from above? 

Mr. Eggleston. I was merely following the lines of the other indi- 
viduals in this party. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many individuals were members of the Civil 
Rights Congress who were known to you to be members of the Com- 
munist Party, according to your best estimate at this time? 

Mr. Eggleston. In numbers instead of names? 

Mr. Taat^nneb. Well, I want the names, too. 

Mr. Willis. You might be able to give, first, the number, if you 
have an opinion based on experience; then give the names. 

Mr. Eggleston. Just to throw out a round figure, I would say I 
know of 10. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of some of the 10 at this 
time? 

Mr. Eggleston. Andy Carlson. C-a-r-1-s-o-n. 

Mr. Scherer. Before we go any further, where is Andy Carlson 
today? 

Mr. Eggleston. I have not the slightest idea where he is. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 629 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you left the party ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. I mean all these people I name, I have no 
contact with them whatsoever at this time. 

Mr. ScHERER. But they were still members at the time you got out? 

Mr. Egglestqn. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner. it is 12 o'clock. I suogest that perhaps 
we had better adjourn until 1 : 30. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. We will stand adjourned until 1 : 30. 

(Whereupon, at 12 noon, the subcommittee was recessed, to recon- 
vene at 1 : 30 p. m. the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Committee members present : Representatives Doyle, Willis, and 
Scherer. 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will reconvene. 

Let the record show, please, that the full personnel of the subcom- 
mittee appointed by Chairman Walter is present, Mr. Scherer, of Ohio, 
on my left, Mr. Willis, of Louisiana, on my right, and myself, Mr. 
Doyle, of California, subcommittee chairman. Mr. Jackson is absent, 
but is not designated as a member of this particular subcommittee. 
He is doing what we often do. We often sit with the subcommittee, 
and we are always glad to have the additional members present. 

Let us proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Taat:nner. Mr. Eggleston, will you come forward again, 
please ? 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES R. EGGLESTON— Resumed 

Mr. Doyle. Let the record show that we are starting at 1 : 30. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. jMr. Eggleston, at the time of the noon recess you 
were giving us the names of persons wlio were members of the Young 
Progressives of America who were known to you to be members of 
the Communist Party. I am not certain whether or not you com- 
pleted the listing of those names. 

Mr. Eggleston. Jerry Rose was a member of the Young Progres- 
sives of America and a Communist Party member. 

Mr. Tavenner. Give the committee more descriptive information 
regarding Jerry Rose. 

Mr. Eggleston. As to his party affiliation ? 

Mr. Tavenner. As to his party affiliations and activities. 

Mr. Eggleston. Well, as the organizational secretary for the youth 
group of the Communist Party I collected Jerry Rose's dues. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall at this time tlie nature of his activities 
generally in the Communist Party? 

Mr. P^ggleston. Xo more than the rest of the members in that par- 
ticular group. I think I mentioned John Rody. Mike Ondrejka. 
Mark Berman was a member of the Young Progressives. Bernice 
Edelstine, Victor Edelstine, Phyllis Berger, and Sydney Berger, Ted 
Silverstine, Harvey Silverstine, Bob and Edith Silverstine, John Gil- 
man, Helen Gilman, Bert Levine, Lila Cricklas, C-r-i-c-k-1-a-s, I think 
is the spelling. Sally Mattson. M-a-t-t-s-o-n. I think I am at a halt 
there. 



630 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavexner. Will you tell tlie committee, please, the principal 
activities that the Civil Rights Congress was engaged in while you 
were a member ? 

Mr. Eggleston. The Civil Eights Congress was engaged in fund 
driving campaigns to raise what they call a bail fund to have money 
available to bail out mostly members of the Communist Party who 
were caught in some subversive act, 

Mr. Ta%t3nner. Do you know of any instance where the bail funds 
of the Civil Rights Congress were used to bail out any person who 
was not a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston, No, I don't, 

Mr. Doyle. Do you mean, Mr. Tavenner, Communists arrested for 
alleged violation of some Federal statute or State statute, and then 
bail was ordered by the court and the Civil Rights Congress provided 
the bail ? Is that what you refer to ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That was my question, yes. 

Mr. Eggleston, When I say that the money was used only for 
bailing out Communists I don't know of anyone else who got into any 
particular trouble at that time where it could have been used for, 

Mr. Tavenner, Can you recall any instances at this time where the 
bail fund of the Civil Rights Congress was used in any particular 
case? 

Mr. Eggleston, No, I have to go back to hearsay that the money 
was being raised here in Milwaid^ee and was being sent to the na- 
tional headquarters. That was given to me by Mrs. Nordstrand. 

Mr. Willis. I think, Mr. Counsel, that in this case the hearsay rule 
would not apply. The program was created and the instructions were 
given to raise the money for Mr. So and So, and that is part of the 
program. 

Mr. ScHERER. We are not restricted from taking heresay. We do 
it in the identification of individuals. 

Mr, TA^nENNER. Tell us what you learned about the use of the bail 
fund. 

Mr, Eggleston, A quota of $60,000 I believe was the national fund 
drive, the goal to reach. 

Mr, Tavenner. Do you mean the quota for the State of Wisconsin ? 

Mr, Eggleston. No, the quota for the country was $60,000 and 
Milwaukee was to collect $2,500 of that amount, I don't know how 
much was collected, here in Milwaukee, but that money did go to the 
national headquarters. 

Mr. Tavenner. What means were used by the Civil Rights Congress 
here in Milwaukee to raise the money ? 

Mr. Eggleston. They organized a finance committee and this fi- 
nance committee was to go out and contact difl'erent people whether 
party members or not for the purpose of raising this money, and they 
would have parties, programs, and so forth, to raise money. 

Mr, TA^^ENNER. To what extent was the Communist Party active in 
those matters, that is, the conducting of the financial drives for the 
funds? 

Mr. Eggleston. Mostly party members, well, in fact all of the party 
members that I know of that were in the Civil Rights Congress were 
on these committees. 

Mr, Ta\tenner, Can you recall at this time what Communist Party 
members were on the finance committee to raise these funds? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 631 

Mr. Eggleston. Josephine Nordstrand was on that committee ; Andy- 
Carlson was on the committee. Matt Perker was on the committee. 

Mr. Ta\^xxer. Was he known to you as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes, he was. I can't associate the names with the 
faces I am remembering now. 

Mr. Taatexner. You know that there were others but you are unable 
to recall their names at this moment ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Do you have any knowledge personally or otherwise 
of how they made private solicitation for funds for this purpose? 

Mr. Egglestox. No, I don't. How the individual members made 
their contacts I do not know. 

Mr. Ta^^xxer. Did you ever see a list of contributors to this fund? 

Mr. Egoleston. I have seen a list of contributors to a number of 
funds, not only this particular one, but a long list of names who con- 
tributed to different fund drives at different times and made different 
contributions for different causes. 

Mr. Ta\^xxer. 'VVliere were those lists kept ? 

Mr. Egglestox. In the office of the Civil Eights Congress. 

Mr. Ta-stexxer. Is there anything you could tell us about the list 
of contributors for this bail fund drive ? 

Mr. Egglestox. I am afraid not, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you tell the committee, please, what other 
activities the Civil Eights Congress was engaged in ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Publication of leaflets and bulletins in which I was 
to write a monthly bulletin with the help of Jack Killian and Harriet 
Berger. We were on a committee to write this monthly bulletin. 

Mr. Tavexx'er. Is this Jack Killian that you refer to the same per- 
son that you referred to as being a member of the Labor Youth League ? 

Mr. Egglestox. One and the same, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. But a person that you had not identified as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party to j^our own personal knowledge? 

Mr. Eggleston. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What was the nature of this magazine that you have 
described or the bulletin whicli you were to edit ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Merely propaganda, sir, the subjects or individ- 
uals that the Civil Eights Congress were interested in that we thought 
the membership should know about, we would write about. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you given directions as to what to write about 
or did you use your own initiative to choose the subject ? 

Mr. Eggleston. At times we were given directions as to who or 
what to write about. Other times we would choose our own sub- 
jects but I might add that when we were given a choice it was up to 
Josephine Nordstrand. She was the sole judge of this. Anything that 
didn't suit her taste or was too strong along the Communist line 
would be extracted. 

Mr. ScHERER. The material in the bulletin followed the Communist 
Party line, did it not? 

Mr. Egglestox'. In the milder sense. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did it have to be disguised? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes, sir; it was disguised. 

63796 — 55— pt. 1 3 



632 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee from your present 
recollection what some of the Communist Party propaganda was 
that was used in this magazine or bulletin ? 

Mr. Egkjleston. I don't remember any specific party cases now^ 
but it was generally to defend the Communists who were on trial, 
to defend those who were up for deportation and just protesting 
against this so-called police state that we have in this country. 

Mr. Willis. Wasn't that the real heart of the matter, the promo- 
tion of the Communist cause and using the individual as a vehicle 
to spread out that cause ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of this bulletin ? 

Mr. Eggleston. The Civil Rights Champion. 

Mr. Scherer. You would go to the defense of the Rosenbergs,, 
for example ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes; and the Willie McGee case, and so forth. 

jMr. Willis. Who was Willie McGee 'i 

Mr. Eggleston. He was the Negro who was executed in Mississippi ; 
I think on rape charges. 

Mr, Scherer. You would not care what the facts were in those 
cases, would you? You did not try to determine, first, the right 
and justice of the position you took, did you? 

Mr. Eggleston. No ; every case that came up of that nature was a 
frame. 

Mr. Scherer. That is what I mean. 

Mr. Eggleston. It w^as automatically a frameup every time you 
heard about such cases. 

Mr. Scherer. You would accuse the official authorities of framing 
the individual ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. You did not care too much about the justice of the 
cause ? 

Mr. Eggleston. No. 

Mr. Scherer. You rose to the defense of the individual merely 
because he represented a certain group, came from a certain minority 
group or was being tried for violation of perhaps the Smith Act or 
one of the other Federal acts ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. W^iLLis. Probably for the most electrifying effect from that 
point of view, the Civil Rights Congress would take a lynch case,, 
irrespective of whether the man involved was guilty or not guilty. 
That was not too important to the selection of the cause? 

Mr. Eggleston. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you mean that you or one of the three editors of the 
Civil Rights Congress deliberately propagandized a frameup regard- 
less of what the truth was, or a charge of frameup? Which was it? 

Mr. Eggleston. It was actually a charge of frameup, sir. There 
is one particular case that I may be a little familiar with. It was the 
Martinsville Seven. That is my particular home. I was home right 
after this incident happened. I can't say whether the people were 
guilty or innocent because when I got home everything was quieted 
down. But when I got back to Milwaukee they w^ere definitely inno- 
cent. They were framed. So I took my pencil and paper and said 
they were framed, too. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS,, AREA 633 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you mean that when you got back to Milwaukee 
insofar as the Communist Party was concerned, they were framed? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. DoTLE. In other words, your papers had no regard for what the 
truth was? It was to put out propaganda? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. And if it would promote the cause of the 
Civil Eights Congress and the Communist Party, it was used. 

Mr. Doyle. That is the practice of Communist papers, as far as 
you know it ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, it is. In my writing I was writing for a paper 
in California in which 1 followed the same line. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you remember the name of that paper in California ? 
I would like to have it identified. 

Mr. Eggleston. The California Eagle, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. That is published in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Eggleston. I might add that all that I wrote for that paper 
was first apiDroved by either Andy Eeams or Josephine Nordstrand. 

Mr. Doyle. It has to be or it would not be printed, isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you write at their direction ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I wrote it and they took out or put in words. It 
was merely my byline by the time they got through. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Part of the representation made by the Communist 
Party in the case of the seven in ISIartinsville was that in the punish- 
ment inflicted, there was gross discrimination against members of your 
race. Is that part of the line they were attempting to carry ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\'exxer. I don't suppose you ever saw in the Communist 
press that there was a white man punished in exactly the same way 
on exactly the same offense ? 

Mr. Egglestox. No ; I didn't. 

j\Ir. DoYT.E. Was that a fact, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Yes, sir ; that was a fact. 

Mr. TA^^EXXER. Yes, sir; that was a fact. There was an execution 
of a white man for the same offense on the same day. 

Mr. SciiEiiER. Xot to labor the point, again the purpose of this 
type of propaganda was to attract members of minority groups to 
membership either in the Communist Party or in the Civil Eights 
Congress. Is that right ? 

Mr, Egglestox. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Doyle. Also I would suggest, Mr. Scherer, that another purpose 
was to stir up antipathy and ill will toward the administration of 
justice in our Xation. Wasn't that true, Mr. Witness? 

Mr. Egglestox. I would say so, sir. 

Mr. AViLLis. You said a while ago that one of the ideas was to por- 
tray the police state. Was that one of the ideas behind it? 

Mr, Egglestox. Yes. 

Mr. TA^•EXXER, During the time that you were working on this bul- 
letin, were articles carried in support of the Communists in the trial 
or immediately after the trial of the 11 in New York for conspiracy 
under the Smith Act ? 

Mr. P>;GLEsrox, This bulletin came after that, sir. 



634 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that Jack Killian was one of those who 
served on this paper with you. What did he do? What was his 
connection with the book? 

Mr. Eggleston. To write, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the same capacity as yourself ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. "V\^iat was the name of the third person that you 
mentioned ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Harriet Berger. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did she perform the same type of services that you 
performed ? 

Mr. Eggleston. She did, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we should make this observation at this time, 
that Communist Party front organizations had similar bulletins and 
newspapers and publications all over the country and that they were 
very effective as evidenced by what happened in the Eosenberg case. 
Many well-meaning people throughout this country actually fell for 
the propaganda which came from literally hundreds of sheets like the 
one you are describing. 

Mr. Eggleston. I might add, sir, that the idea for this paper in 
Milwaukee came from Michigan, came from Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you pinpoint it more definitely than that ? 

Mr. Eggleston. No, I can't because it happened in Chicago at a con- 
vention there and some members from the Detroit ranks of the Civil 
Rights Congress were discussing this paper and how they had been suc- 
cessful with their paper ; so we came back to Milwaukee and started 
one. 

Mr. Scherer. There were literally hundreds of papers like yours all 
over the United States, in every community, were there not ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. And you sought to get as wide a circulation as pos- 
sible among people whom you hoped to influence ? 

Mr. Eggleston. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether the success, failure, or lack 
of progress of this bulletin was discussed in Communist Party meet- 
ings that you attended ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I don't recall, sir, that it was discussed in those 
meetings. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you describe to the committee, please, any other 
activities that you can recall, in which the Civil Rights Congress was 
engaged in? 

Mr. Eggleston. No, I think I have covered them all, sir. 

Mr. Ta\'t:nner. You spoke of fund drives ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And for one particular purpose, that is the bail 
fund. Were there fund drives for other purposes ? 

Mr. Eggleston. There were fund drives for other purposes. There 
was a fund drive for Harold Christoffel for his defense, fund drives 
for Willie T^IcGee and the Martinsville seven. I would say for prac- 
tically every issue that came up they had a fund drive for it. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Tavenner, isn't it a fact that some of the more 
notable fund drives took place after this witness left the party ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I think that is particularly true with regard to 
the bail fund drives. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 635 

You have described your activities in these three organizations in 
response to the general direction from the Communist youth group to 
get out into these organizations. What activity did you have within 
the Communist Party itself, if any, which you have not already 
covered ? 

Mr. Eggleston. To infiltrate other organizations. 

Mr. Tavtenner. First work within the Communist Party. Did you 
attend meetings from time to time within the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, I attended my own group meetings. Of 
course general meetings of the Communist Party which you attended 
only by written invitation, and these invitations would come from 
the party office headquarters here to the chairmen of the various groups, 
and they would pass them out to the members to attend these meetings. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. How do you know that was the system they used ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Because I was given the invitations to pass out. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. As a chairman of youT particular group? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenxer. "\Miere were those meetings held, usually? 

Mr. Eggleston. The Milwaukee Hall, I think it is Sokol's Hall on 
13th and Walnut Streets. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were those meetings for Communist Party mem- 
bers only? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Can you recall any business conducted in any of 
those meetings that would be of interest to this committee? 

Mr. Eggleston. JVIost of those meetings were speaking meetings 
where different members would get up and speak. One in particular, 
held on 13th and Walnut, was when Jack Kling was taking over the 
chairmanship of the party here and he was introduced at that meet- 
ing by Andy Reams, I believe, who was the outgoing chairman at that 
time. There was a discussion of an atomic bomb and warmongers 
who were going to use it. There was discussion on supporting the 
coal miners' strike in Pennsylvania and West Virginia at that time. 
We were to collect food for the coal miners. By the way, this was a 
task by the Communist Party itself where they were to go out and 
knock on door to door to collect food to send to Pennsylvania and 
West Virginia to give to the coal miners. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not truckloads of food 
were sent to the coal miners, and when the coal miners found that ac- 
companying the food was Communist literature, they wouldn't accept 
it? 

Mr. Eggleston. No, I didn't know that. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the testimony before this committee. 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean a loaf of bread in one hand and the Daily 
Worker in the other? 

Mr. Tavenner, They would not accept it with the label attached. 

Do you recall any other particular business discussed at any of 
those meetings in which the committee would be interested? 

Mr. Eggleston. I don't think so at this time, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names, please, of any per- 
sons that you learned to know as members of the Communist Party 
in those meetings, whose names you have not already given us? 

Mr. Eggleston. Harry Virgil. 



636 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us anything more about Harry Virgil 
by way of identification? 

Mr. Eggleston. He was very active in the Peoples Progressive Par- 
ty. I couldn't describe his activity in the Communist Party. I just 
know he attended these meetings through invitation and his wife also 
attended them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall his wife's name? 

Mr. Eggleston. Ida. 

Mr. Willis. ^^Hiere is he now, do you know ? 

Mr. Eggleston. He should be in here, sir. He is subpenaed. 

Mr. Willis. I am sorry. I did not mean to ask the question. 

Mr. Eggleston. Nick Stess. S-t-e-s-s. He was working in the 
Civil Eights Congress as more or less an errand boy for the Civil 
Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you go back a moment to this man Virgil? 
Did you say you couldn't give us any more detailed information about 
his activities? 

Mr. Eggleston. In the Communist Party. 

Matt Perker. P-e-r-k-e-r. Mort Altman. A-1-t-m-a-n, I think is 
the spelling. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know if Mort is an abbreviation for Morti- 
mer or whether that is his full name? 

Mr. Eggleston. I could assume that, sir; but I don't know. Jerry 
Rose was at these meetings. Sidney and Phyllis Berger attended 
these meetings, and Andy Carlson. I think that is about all that I 
haven't named before, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with a person by the 
name of Merle Snyder? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, I did, sir. Merle Snyder was in my group. 

Mr. Tavenner. In which group? 

Mr. Eggleston. In the Communist Party group, in the youth group 
of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was finally expelled 
from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes ; he was, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. This morning one of the members of the committee 
asked you various questions about teachings in the Communist Party 
which drew from you an answer regarding the plan of the Communist 
Party to assign a certain section of the country to your race. You 
told the committee at the time that you felt you would have to restrict 
your testimony on that subject because you felt it was of a confidential 
character. During the noon hour did you satisfy yourself that you 
are under no restriction in that regard ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a book entitled "Negro Liberation" 
by Harry Haywood, put out by the International Publishers, New 
York City. Is that the general subject that you were discussing? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me hand you the book, and I will ask you to tell 
the committee, please, what use was made of it by the Communist 
Party in this area, and any other knowledge you have of a Communist 
Party source as to the project in mind by the Communist Party at 
that time ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 637 

Mr. DoTLE. The committee will stand in recess for not more than 10 
minutes and the witness in the meantime will be finding the reference 
that he has in mind. 

We will convene again within 10 minutes. The committee stands in 
recess. 

(Whereupon, at 2 : 10 p. m. a recess was taken after which at 2 : 20 
p. m., the hearing was resmned.) 

Committee members present: Representatives Doyle, Willis, and 
Scherer. 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will, please, reconvene. 

I was asked three questions during the noon recess. I was asked how 
many members of this subcommittee are lawyers. Eight members of 
the full committee are lawyers. Mr. Jackson, who was here this morn- 
ing, is the only 1 of the 9 who is not a lawyer. So Mr. Scherer, Mr. 
Willis, and myself were all lawyers in active practice before we came 
to Congress. 

The other question I was asked was why there is more than one com- 
mittee member here at this subcommittee hearing. Our committee, the 
Un-American Activities Committee, in July 1953 adopted a regulation 
that three members should constitute a subcommittee for a hearing. 
Up until last week, however, the House of Representatives had no 
rule specifying how many members of a committee of investigation 
constituted a quorum of that committee. Last year we passed a rule, 
unanimously, that requires not less than 2 members shall constitute a 
quorum for any subcommittee, so hereafter no investigative commit- 
tee of the House of Representatives on an investigation has authority 
to sit unless 2 members are present. In other words, we unanimously 
did away with 1-man committees in the House of Representatives. 

Are you ready, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Yes, sir. 

Will you give to the committee, please, Mr. Eggleston, just what it 
was you had in mind with reference to the movement described in the 
book that is before you ? 

Mr. Eggijeston. The discussion I had with Andy Reams and his 
wife in their apartment concerned this book here, Negro Liberation. 
During our discussion he pointed out to me a certain section of the 
United States which is this dark portion here of this map. This shaded 
portion would be taken by the Communist Party for the Negroes. 

Mr. DoYLE. On what page of that book does the map appear ? 

Mr. Eggleston. This is the first page. It is not numbered, sir. It 
is just a map on the inside. 

Mr. Doyle. What States generally would be included in this shaded 
portion which this Communist told you would be taken by the Com- 
munist Party for the Negroes ? 

Mr. Eggleston. All the Southern States, except Florida. 

Mr. Scherer. Was Louisiana included? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Willis. I would say that they were undertaking a great job. 
I will say, further, that that probably is one of the sections where this 
kind of hearing is needed the least. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the area given a name ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes ; he referred to it as the black belt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it to constitute a separate government than 
that of the rest of this country ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 



638 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Willis. I suppose you have to exercise a lot of restraint not to 
open up in a discussion like that ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Well, when he made that statement, believe me, 
I was dumfounded. I couldn't question him as to how or when this 
was going to take place. You just have to take those guys' word that 
what they say is law without questioning it because once you become 
suspicious you are out automatically. 

Mr. Doyle. Who was this Communist official who was telling you 
that this black belt would be taken by the Communist Party for the 
Negroes ? 

Mr. Egglestox. Andy Reams, who was the chairman of the Com- 
munist Partj^ for Wisconsin. 

Mr. DoYi-E. Did that discussion occur in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. In what year? 

Mr. Eggleston. My best recollection is that this thing happened 
after this Mosinee in Madison — this sharecrop incident that I men- 
tioned this morning. 

Mr. Doyle. That would have been about when, sir? 

Mr. Eggleston. I would say in the summer of 1950. 

Mr. Doyle. Did lie tell you what he meant by being "taken" ? How 
was the Communist Party going to take over this area and set up a 
separate government? 

Mr. Eggleston. That wasn't explained to me, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliy didn't you ask him ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I couldn't question him. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliy? 

Mr. Eggleston. I was afraid I would cast suspicion on myself. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. You were an FBI agent at the time. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you think they were rather stupid in advancing 
such a thing to the colored people of this country ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I think they are stupid, period. 

Mr. Scherer. Particularly in this respect. Because, as I under- 
stood it, the Negro leaders, particularly those connected with NAACP, 
are opposed to any type of segregation ? 

Mr. Eggleston. They are, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer in evidence 
at this place in the witness's testimony the front advertisement piece 
of the book and also the picture referred to by the witness and ask 
that it me marked "Eggleston Exhibit No. 1," for identification pur- 
poses only, and to be made a part of the committee files. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. With leave to withdraw the document after photo- 
stating it and return it to its owner. 

Mr. Doyle. Without objection leave is granted. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you told us in your earlier testimony that 
you withdrew from the Communist Party in 1952 or was it 1951 ? 

Mr. Eggleston. In 1951. I didn't withdraw in the true sense of the 
word ; I was expelled. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee about that, please? 

Mr. Egoleston. I was expelled from the party for the reason that 
was given to me that time because I couldn't convert my wife into 
being a Communist Party member. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 639 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of that you were disciplined by being 
kicked out of the party ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had the party at the time that you got out broken 
down into smaller groups for the purpose of going underground? 

Mr. Eggleston. At the time that I was out of the party there were 
no group meetings under the banner of the Communist Party. They 
were just individual meetings with different members. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat size group of members ? 

Mr. Eggleston. One or two members would meet you and you 
would have a conversation with them and you would go to the book- 
shop and pick up your literature and papers, but there was no actual 
sending out and calling a business meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner, With whom did you meet in that type of meeting ? 

Mr. Eggleston. I met with Mary Keith. We discussed things while 
the party was in this small group ; the gentleman I named earlier in 
my testimony, whom I said was dead at this time, well I mention him 
again. BillHerron, I met with him; Douglas McCain, I met with 
him ; and I also met with Mort Altman. 

Mr. Ta\'enxer. After the termination of your Communist Party 
membershp, how were you employed? What have you been doing? 

Mr. Eggleston. You mean when I got out of the party altogether ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Eggleston. I went to work at Seaman Body for a while. I 
went to build my house. I was unemployed for about a year building 
my house. Then I went to work for a couple of architects, being 
self-employed. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Are you now self-employed ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. As an architect ? 

Mr. Eggleston. As a designer. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Mr, Cliairman, I believe I have no further questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you want to question, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Willis. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any questions, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. You say they told you that you were expelled from 
the party because you failed to convert your wife to communism; 
i^that right? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer, Do you think that that was the real reason? 

Mr. Eggleston. Well, I can't say. I mean at that time. 

Mr. Scherer. Who notified you of your expulsion ? 

Mr. Eggijeston. Bill Herron. 

Mr. Scherer. And he told you that was the reason ? 

Mr. Eggleston. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. If that was the real reason — which I doubt — they 
don't understand wives any more than they understand the Negroes. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Eggleston, did they not give you a hearing and a 
chance to explain or defend yourself before you were expelled? 

Mr. Eggleston. No, sir. I went to the bookshop one day to pick 
up my literature and I met Bill Herron there. He said, "I want to 
talk to you." We went out in my car. He told me. I said goodby 
and drove off. 



640 COMlVrUNIST activities in the MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. I tliouglit they believed pretty strongly in civil rights. 

Mr. Eggleston, we could take quite a few minutes of time in thank- 
ing you for your cooperation. I will not do so. Speaking on behalf 
of the committee, I want to thank you very earnestly and sincerely 
for this cooperation with your United States Congress. We appre- 
ciate it very, very much. 

Mr. Eggleston. You are welcome. 

Mr. Doyle. I am sure that if more American citizens, under cir- 
cumstances such as you met when you discovered the Communist 
conspiracy, would take steps to reveal and expose it, as you did, we 
would not be so worried about the conspiracy to forcibly overthrow 
our country. I want to compliment you and thank you. 

Mr. Eggleston. You are welcome. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that the witness be 
kept under subpena? 

Mr. Doyle. So ordered. 

Call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner, Sigmund G. Eisenscher. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SIGMUND G. EISENSCHER, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, IRVIN B. CHARNE 

Mr. Doyle. Are you ready. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. A¥liat is your name, sir ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. My name is Sigmund G. Eisenscher. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel. 
Would counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Charne. Irvin B. Charne. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your address ? 

Mr. Charne. 135 West Wells Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. Milwaukee? 

Mr. Charne. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Eisenscher? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I was born in Poland ; Cracow, to be exact. 

Mr. Tavenner. What date? 

Mr. Eisenscher. On July 24, 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I was an infant at the time. I am not sure of the 
exact age, but I was under 1 year old. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr, Eisenscher. I am a citizen by virtue of the law which pre- 
vailed during one period which granted citizenship under conditions 
when a minor's parent became a citizen. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is derivative citizenship ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I am not sure what it is called, but that is the 
circumstance. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you secure that citizenship ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I couldn't say. It is in the record as far as that 
goes. I don't have that information at my fingertips. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was your father naturalized ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I couldn't tell you that offhand either. 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 641 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere was lie naturalized ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I am not sure at the moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere was your father liAdng when he became 
naturalized ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I am not even sure of that, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Under what name was your father naturalized ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Well, I can only conclude that he was naturalized 
under his own name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which would be what ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. That name is Isaac Eisenscher. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you came to this country where did you take 
up your residence ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Well, I can only speak of this by hearsay, Mr. 
Tavenner, since I was too young to recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is quite adequate. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. You are satisfied with that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Certainly. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I will have to spend a little time to recall the 
circumstance. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking the circumstances. I am just 
asking you where you resided when you arrived in this country. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. If I am not mistaken, I think the first period we 
lived in New York, but I am not sure of that. In other words, I 
cannot speak conclusively of this period of time. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. From there you moved to what place ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Massachusetts. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. What place in Massachusetts ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think at one period we lived in a town called 
East Dedham. I think it is near Boston. But I am not sure of that 
either. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you and your family reside at that 
place? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I couldn't say that for sure, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. About when did you leave that place? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think I must have been about 5 years old, but 
of this I am not certain either. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. To what part of the country did you move? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Long Island, N. Y. Wait. I am sorry. At first 
we lived in Manhattan in New York and after that we moved to Long 
Island. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you move from Long Island ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I am not certain of this date, Mr. Tavenner. 

IVIr. Tavenner. About how old were you when you left Long 
Island? ^ J S 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think I must have been somewhere about 6 or 
7 years old. 

Mr. Tavenner. From Long Island, to what section of the country 
did you move? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. To Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you move from Brooklyn ? Can you fix 
that time? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I am sorry, I couldn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. From Brooklyn, to what section of the country did 
you move? 



642 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. To New Jersey. 

Mr. Tai-enner. How long did you live in New Jersey ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I lived there until 1933. 

Mr. Tavtenner. Where did you live in New Jersey ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. A town called Chatham. 

Mr. Tavenner. How old were you in 1933 ? I have forgotten the 
date of your birth. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I must have been 22, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Well, I went through school as most other kids 
have done, I suppose. I went tlirough grammar school and through 
junior high school and then high school, and I had a few months at 
Eutgers University at the New Jersey State Experiment Station. 
That is an agricultural school. That was for a brief period, just a 
sJiort course. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what year was that ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think that was in the winter of 1928 if I am not 
mistaken. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Will you tell the committee, please, how long you 
lived in New Jersey? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I lived there, if I can recall exactly, from about 
1925 until I left the State in 1933. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what State did you move upon leaving New 
Jersey ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I came to Wisconsin. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. In what section of Wisconsin did you take up your 
residence ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I lived in Madison for about a year and a half 
then moved to Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any formal educational training in. 
addition to what you have told us ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Well, not that I would count as such because I 
entered the University of Wisconsin for a brief period, but I dropped 
out because I found myself unable to continue for lack of funds, out 
I wouldn't count that, because I never got any credit for it. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in Madison? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you in attendance at the university ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. A very short time, for a few weeks only. I 
thought I could make plans to assure the continuation of my schooling 
there, but I found myself unable to do so. 

Mr. Tavenner. What year was that ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. 1933.' 

Mr. Tavenner. Then in about a year or year and a half you moved 
from Madison to Milwaukee? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed while living in Madison? 

Mr, EiSENSCHER. Oh, I had a couple of jobs. I sold advertising 
for a newspaper there on the campus. I sold it for the Cardinal and 
I sold advertising for another newspaper in town, and then I got a 
job with the Madison Gas & Electric Co. I was selling appliances, 
you know, stoves and refrigerators, and whatnot, merchandise that 
ihey have on sale. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 643 

Mr. Tavenner. Upon moving to Milwaukee in — would that be 1934 
or 1935 ? 

Mr. EiSEXscHER. 1935. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you become employed? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I believe that this question may tend to incrimi- 
nate me, Mr. Tavenner, and therefore I will refuse to answer it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to 
answer. 

Mr. DoTXJ]. I direct the witness to answer that question, 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Doyle, I must persist in my refusal to answer 
this question based on the grounds that I believe that the answer may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you become employed by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Sir, the same answer goes for this question. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. You have refused to answer the question asked you by 
Mr. Tavenner after I directed you to answer. That is correct, isn't it ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. That is correct, definitely correct. 

Mr. Doyle. And you have given your grounds for refusal to 
answer ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I said, and I will repeat, I refuse to answer that 
question because I believe that that answer may tend to incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eisenscher, where do you now reside? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I live at 1860 North Prospect Avenue in Mil- 
waukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived there ? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I lived there from about the middle of August 
until the present date. I am still living there. 

Mr. Tavenner. The middle of August of what year ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Of 1954. 

JVIr. Tavenner. Prior to the middle of August 1954 where did you 
reside ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I believe that the answer to this question might 
also be incriminating and therefore I refuse to answer it. I refuse to 
give you any information which may be used to incriminate me, Mr. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct the witness to 
answer the question as to where he lived prior to his present address, 

Mr. Doyle. I certainly do instruct you to answer that question and 
in doing that, sir, we believe it is entirely reasonable and right and 
within the law for us to ask you to identify yourself. We see no justi- 
fication in you claiming incrimination merely because you lived some 
place. The purpose of the question is to identify you, and Congress 
has a right to know who you are and where you have lived. I instruct 
you to answer. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Doyle, I still refuse to answer that question 
on the grounds which I have stated, that I will not incriminate myself 
or even endanger myself to possible incrimination by any information 
or answers given here in this room. 

Mr. Doyle. Even as to where you lived; is that correct? 



644 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. EisENSCHER. If I think there is a possibility that the answer 
may incriminate me, I will refuse to answer — and I am the sole judge 
of that. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is where you are wrong. You are not the sole 
judge of that. 

Mr. Doyle. We will let the record speak for itself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eisenscher, I have before me a clipping from 
the Milwaukee Journal of August 18, 1954, entitled "Another Spurt 
by Local Reds. Reasons Are Studied." The article begins with this 
statement : 

What is the significance of the reappearance of Sigmund G. Eisenscher and 
an openly functioning Communist Party in Wisconsin? 

The former Milwaukee County Communist chairman popped up Monday an- 
nouncing that he had been elected State Communist chairman and a write-in 
candidate for lieutenant governor in the November 2 election. Eisenscher had 
vanished from Milwaukee, along with other State Communist leaders, on Septem- 
ber 4, 1951. 

It w^as believed then that fear of prosecution under the Smith Act on charges 
of conspiring to overthrow the Government by force had led to their disappear- 
ance. 

Then a heading in the article, "Possibility Still Exists" and continu- 
ing with the article, it reads as follows : 

Inasmuch as that possibility still exists, there must have been some strong 
reason for the emergence of Eisenscher at this time. 

One theory, partly confirmed Tuesday by Eisenscher himself, is that the 
Communists discovered that working underground had disadvantages. Par- 
tirularly, it made recruitment of members almost impossible and propagandiza- 
tion diflicult. 

Authorities say that the Communist Party here has slipped badly since its 
leaders disappeared. It has lost touch with the workers, from which it hopes 
to gain recruits, and has not been able to defend itself against its many critics, 
they say. Eisenscher agreed with the latter point. 

Eisenscher declined to answer questions as to where he had been during his 
3 years' absence from Milwaukee and as to whether others in the Communist 
Party had been elected to offices when he was elected State chairman. 

Do you recall seeing that article in the press in which you are 
reported to have agreed with certain viewpoints? 

Mr. Eisenscher. Sir, I will refuse to answer the question on the 
grounds that it may possibly tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. The only question, as I understand it, that Mr. Taven- 
ner asked him is whether he saw the article and I don't see how, 
whether he saw it or did not see it, would tend to incriminate him. 
So, Mr. Chairman, again I am going to ask you to direct the witness 
to answer the question as to whether he saw that article. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. DoYT.E. You conferred with your counsel. What is your an- 
swer to Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Eisenscher. On the advice of counsel, I will say now that I did 
read the article. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have a conference with the writer of that 
article as indicated by its contents wherein it said "Eisenscher agreed 
with the latter point" ? 

nVitness conferred with his coimsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. Sir, I will not answer this question on the grounds 
that the answer may possibly tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 645 

Mr. Ta\t:xner. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Eisenscher, that the theoi'v pre- 
sented in this article is actually the correct theory of the Comiiiunist 
Party today in this locality, namely, that it has found it cannot operate 
undergi^ound successfully ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. Sir. I consider that question an invasion of my 
political and civil rights. 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. And the same answer which I gave before holds 
for this one as well. 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. I will not answer this question because I believe 
that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has not the Communist Party in this locality 
reached the conclusion or the determination that by working in under- 
ground small groups it cannot continue to recruit members into the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. I also refuse to answer this question, Mr. Tav- 
enner, on the same grounds previously stated to the last question. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Isn't it true that you have been sent back here to 
try to dig the Communist Party out of the ground in order that it may 
continue with its propaganda appeal to certain interests ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. Mr. Tavenner, I will say this : I am willing to 
proclaim my views in any corner of this State but not under compulsion 
and not before this committee. 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr. Scherer. Do you mean you are willing to answer these ques- 
tions at any place other than before this committee ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I am willing to expound my views freely but not 
under compulsion or before any inquisitorial committee 

Mr. Scherer. I would say he is clearly in contempt. 

Mr. Eisenscher. I would refuse to answer that on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Chairman, I think since he did not at first claim 
the fifth amendment he should be ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct }■ ou to answer the question. 

INIr. Eisenscher. I refuse, sir, on the grounds previously stated that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. Are you the Sigmund Eisenscher, or whatever the 
name is, referred to in the article that the counsel just read? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer, sir, on the grounds stated pre- 
viously that an answer may possibly tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner, I hand you a photostatic copy of an article entitled 
"Press Release, Milwaukee, Wis., August 16, 1954," and ask you if 
you have seen it before. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the grounds that the answer may possibly tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You refuse to state whether or not you have ever 
seen this document or the original of it ; is that correct? 

Mr. Eisenscher. That is correct, on the grounds that I stated 
before. 



646 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to read part of the document 
in evidence : 

The Communist Party of Wisconsin announced today tbat its State executive 
committee lias elected as its chairman Sigmuud G. Eisenscher, former Milwaukee 
County chairman of the party. At the same time, it was announced that Eisen- 
scher planned to run for the office of lieutenant governor of Wisconsin in the 
November election. The announcement came as Eisenscher returned home after 
an absence of 3 years on various field assignments for the party. Eisenscher 
issued the following statement : 

Then it continues with about tliree pages of what purports to be a 
statement. 

Mr. Wiixis. What was the date of that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is Milwaukee, Wis., August 16, 1954, under the 
heading of "Press Release." 

Is it true, as stated in this press release, that you were elected chair- 
man of the Milwaukee County Communist Party in August 1954? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I also refuse to answer that question, Mr. Taven- 
ner, on similar grounds that the answer may possibly tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a candidate for lieutenant governor 
of Wisconsin in the November elections of 1954 ? 

(The witness confers Avith his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. I will also refuse to answer this question, Mr. 
Tavenner, on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Whether you became a candidate for lieutenant gov- 
ernor of the State of Wisconsin might tend to incriminate you? Do 
you claim that seriously ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I seriously do. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct the witness to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Eisenscher. I can only repeat what I said before. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer this on the grounds that the 
answer may possibly incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. When you became a candidate in 1954, did you feel 
then that it would incriminate you to become a candidate? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I also refuse to answer that question, Mr. Doyle, 
on similar grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an application for 
post office box under date of September 30, 1954. Will you examine 
it, please ? 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not you filed such an 
application with the Post Office Department ? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. Mr. Tavenner, I also refuse to answer this ques- 
tion on the grounds that the answer may possibly incriminate me or 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Again, Mr. Chairman, I must ask that you direct 
the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer that question, Mr. Eisenscher. 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer, Mr. Doyle, on the grounds I 
just stated that an answer may tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 647 

Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Chairman, I offer the document in evidence 
and ask that it be marked "Eisenscher Exhibit No. 1," for identifi- 
cation purposes only, and to be made a part of the committee files. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Willis. Does that document purport to bear a signature of the 
witness on the stand? I do not care whether it does or not. Is it 
signed by him ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you the document again and ask you if you 
see a place entitled "Signature of applicant" followed by the signature 
of an individual ? 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. Are you asking him if that is his signature? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am going to ask him that in the next question. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. Yes ; I see such a place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the name of the person whose name 
appears opposite the request for the signature ? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. I am now reading from this piece of paper which 
you gave me. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. And it says here "Sigmund G. Eisenscher." 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign it ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer this question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we ought to have another direction, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. DoTLE. I am, sir, in view of your identification of that signa- 
ture as being your name, directing you to answer. 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. Mr. Doyle, I repeat that I will not answer this 
question on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to read the document in 
evidence. 

Application for post-office bos. 

Just ahead of that in the righthand corner is the statement — 

Assigned Box Xo. 1,088, September 30, 1954, the undersigned hereby applies for 
the use of a box in the post office at Main Post Offiice, Milwaukee, Wis., and 
agrees to comply with the postal regulations and rules relative to renting and 
use of post-office boxes. If the box is rented for a corporation, the applicant 
should write on the lines below the name of the corporation ; if for a firm, the 
name of the firm, and the full name of each of its members whose mail is to 
be placed in the box. 

Then follows: 

Signature of applicant: "Sigmund G. Eisenscher." Character of business: 
"Personal and political." Residence address: "1860 N. Prospect Avenue, Mil- 
waukee." References: "M. Altman, 3208 West Michigan; John Oilman, 3851 
North First Street." 

Mr. Eisenscher, isn't it a fact that you applied for an application for 
post-office box to be used as the post-office box of the Communist Party 
for this area ? 

63796— 55— pt. 1 4 



648 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. And isn't it a fact that in response to the applica- 
tion you were actually assigned box 1,088 which you used for the 
Communist Party in this area? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tait^nner. I notice that there are several references here. Who 
is the person by the name of M. Altman ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You will not state whether or not you are ac- 
quainted with him? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think I have answered your question, Mr. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Are you acquainted with John Oilman? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question also on the 
grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eisenscher, I hand you a document entitled, 
and the caption is very indistinct to read, "This is Your FBI, a State- 
ment by the Communist Party of Wisconsin," then in parentheses 
under the title, "For General Release and Publication." Examine it 
please, and will you state whether or not you are familiar with that 
article ? 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. DoTLE. What is the date of that, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. It has no date. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I do not answer this question on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Willis. Do you mean you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. EiSENCHER. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERiiR. Witness, you have refused to answer all important 
questions that have been asked you on the grounds that to do so might 
tend to incriminate you. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. In other words, you feel that if you answer such ques- 
tions some prosecution may result in which you might suffer some 
penalty; is that right? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Scherer, I do not believe I am obliged to 
answer your question or to explain my reasons for refusal on the 
grounds that I have indicated. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct the witness to answer. 

INIr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer this question also, ]\Ir. Doyle. 
However, I would like to confer with my counsel on this point. 

Mr. DoYLE. We would be glad to have you do so. I think you had 
better. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Doyle, I don't want to give the impression 
here that I am evading any questions. I want to make very clear at 
this point that my answers to those questions, whatever your com- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 649 

ments or opinions might be, represent my clear and honest opinion, 
and I would like to have that clearly understood, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. DoTLE. Of course you are under oath and the record speaks for 
itself as to what you are trying to do. 

Mr. SciiERER. By the question I asked, Mr. Chairman, I wanted 
to see whether this witness understood what he was doing when he 
invoked the fifth amendment, and I think of course he is clearly in 
contempt for refusing to answer the question that I asked because it 
would give some basis as to whether or not he was properly invoking 
the fifth amendment. 

Witness, you have invoked the fifth amendment and said that you 
are refusing to answer these questions because your answers might 
tend to incriminate you. Now, under the law passed by the 83d Con- 
gress this committee has the right with the approval of the Federal 
court to grant you immunity from prosecution, that is to assure you 
that there will be no prosecution for any answer that you might give 
to these questions. 

If this committee should decide to grant you such immunity so 
that you couldn't be prosecuted, or couldn't incriminate yourself 
by your answer, would you then answer the questions we have asked 
you? 

Mr. EisENSCHER. Do you mean to imply, Mr. Scherer, that I should 
become a stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Scherer. I just want you to answer my question. 

I ask, Mr. Chairman, that you direct the witness to answer my 
question. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer. I think you understood the 
question. 

Mr. EisExscHER. I would like to answer this question, Mr. Doyle, 
I would say, first, that in no case will I violate my own conscience. 
jNIy conscience will not permit me to become an informer under com- 
pulsion or offers of bribery or offers of any refusal to prosecute, or 
anything like that. 

I also believe that Congress does not have the power to set aside 
any of the protection granted by the Constitution of the United 
States. I adhere to the Constitution even if it is in conflict sometimes 
with some of the things that Congress may do. 

Mr. SciiERER. Then I understand, Witness, from your answer now 
that if this committee should gi\ant you immunity from prosecution, 
you would still refuse to answer these questions ? 

(Counsel confers with witness.) 

Mr. Scherer. He has answered the question, Mr. Tavenner. I 
just made that observation because from his answer it was not clear 
that he was properly invoking the fifth amendment. 

When a man says that he will not answer even though granted 
immunity, then he is not properly invoking the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\'Exner. AVill you examine, again, please, the document 
which I handed you a few moments ago and look at the typewritten, 
signed name at the end of it and see if you can detect a signature just 
above it? 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 
(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you see what appears to be a signature above 
the typewritten name? 



650 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I see what might possibly be a signature, Mr. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that indicate to you that this is a photostat of 
a mimeographed document? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Well, sir, I am not a documents expert, and for 
that reason I don't think that I am required to answer the question. 
I wonder in what capacity you are asking me my opinion? 

Mr. Tavenner. From your observation of it does it appear as 
though it were a name scratched on a sheet of mimeograph paper 
which didn't take properly in the stencil, did not take properly in the 
duplication of it? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. It appears that way to me, but I want to say that 
this is a matter of opinion. That is my opinion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you read that signature by examining it? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Are you directing me to read it, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Is says here "S. G. Eisenscher." 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify the signature above it as being the 
same name? 

Mr, EiSENSCHER. Well, I couldn't say positively. It appears that 
it might be the same. 

Mr. Tavenner. It appears to be, doesn't it ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Yes, it appears to be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you scratch your signature by stencil in the 
duplication paper? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Now, Mr. Tavenner, I will refuse to answer that 
question on similar grounds as before : That the answer may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Willis. Did he answer as to whether or not he had seen this 
document or did he refuse? I am asking you, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. He answered formerly that he refused to identify 
the document. 

Underneath that signature appears a typewritten name, and that 
is the name that you read. Isn't that correct ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What post office address is given under that name ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Post Office Box 1088. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliich is the same post office box number which was 
assigned to you on your application, isn't it? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I won't answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, be- 
cause the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you also examine the document to see whether 
or not there is any further identifying information after your name? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Do you want me to read what is here, Mr. Taven- 
ner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, that would be an easy way to do it. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Under the name indicated here it says "For the 
Communist Party of Wisconsin, Post Office Box 1088, Milwaukee, 
Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence and 
ask that it be marked "Eisenscher Exhibit No. 2," for identification 
purposes only and to be made a part of the committee files. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 651 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Eisensclier, were you a candidate in 1947 for 
mayor of the city of Milwaukee ? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Tavenner, I refuse to answer that question 
on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to 
answer the question as to whether he was a candidate for mayor of 
Milwaukee. 

Mr. Doyle. I fail to see how that would tend to incriminate you. 
1 direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. Eisenscher. Without explanation, I refuse to answer on the 
grounds that it may incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Mr. Eisenscher. I hand you a document entitled 
"Press Release, Address : Milwaukee, Wis., December 17, 1947." Will 
you examine it, please, and state what name you see at the bottom of 
the document ? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. The name indicated here is Sigmund Eisenscher. 

Mr. Tavexner. Does it appear both in typewriting and in hand- 
writing ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. That is right. That is what appears here on the 
paper ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state wliether or not the signature "Sig- 
mund G. Eisenscher" is your signature or a reasonable facsimile of it? 

Mr. Eisenscher. Mr. Tavenner, I refuse to answer that question 
on the ground that that answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire, Mr. Chairman, to offer the document in 
evidence and ask that it be marked "Eisenscher Exhibit No. 3," for 
identification purposes only, and to be made a part of the committee 
files. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner, I shall read the first and last paragraphs: 

In the absence of unity among Milwaukee's labor and liberal forces behind 
any single candidate or platform, I have decided to offer myself as a candidate 
for election as mayor of Milwaukee. 

Then the last paragraph : 

Since returning from the service, I have been county chairman of the Commu- 
nist Party of Milwaukee. I intend to take a leave of absence from these duties 
during the election campaign. I have been an active Communist for 13 years, 
during which time I have devoted all my efforts in behalf of the rights of labor, 
of the Negro people, and of the general struggle for democracy. My campaign 
for the mayoralty is pledged to continue in this same effort. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you run as candidate for Governor of the State 
of Wisconsin on the Communist Party ticket in 1946 ? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer this question, Mr. Tavenner, on 
the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eisenscher, have you been known by any name 
other than Sigmund Eisenscher? 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the grounds previously stated, that the answer may tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 



652 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. I direct the witness to answer that question. Congress 
is certainly entitled to know the identity of people in the country. It 
is a question of identity and I direct you to answer it, 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Doyle, I will repeat my answer. That is, 
that to answer the question would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you used the name Fred Keller ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I will refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds previously stated, that the answer may tend to incriminate 
me. 

Mr. DoYLE. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you first become a member of the Communist 
Party while attending the university at Madison, Wise. ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Mr. Tavenner, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eisenscher, report No. 1508 of the 80th Con- 
gress, 2d session, of the House of Representatives, is a report of an 
investigation by the House Committee on Education and Labor en- 
titled "Investigation of Harold ChristofFel and Others as to Whether 
Perjury Was Committed Before the Committee on Education and La- 
bor." I read, as follows, from that report : 

Sigmund G. Eisenscher, Communist candidate for Governor of Wisconsin in 
1946, having been first duly sworn, testified before your subcommittee that he 
was born in Krakow, Poland ; spent his childhood and youth in Massachusetts, 
New York, and New Jersey; joined the Communist Party in 1934 at Madison, 
Wis., at which time he adopted the alias of Fred Keller — 

Then, quoting your testimony : 

to prevent any political persecution of my relatives for reasons of my own politi- 
cal activities. 

He sought out someone whom he knew to be a Communist to join the Commu- 
nist Party, but did not recall the name of this person. He was first a member 
of the Communist Party in Madison, and then when he moved to Milwaukee 
he was attached to the branch of the party in Milwaukee. He was not a member 
of the Allis-Chalmers branch of the party in 1938 ; he believed that he — 

Then, quoting your testimony again : 

was first attached to a North Side branch of the Communist Party when I first 
came to town. 

He did not "exactly" remember who the members of this branch were ; he did 
not remember a single one of the members of this branch ; about a year later 
he moved to the East Side group but did not recall any of the Communists with 
which he was associated in this branch of the party ; he did not join the Allis- 
Chalmers branch of the Communist Party ; he was a member of the Sixth Ward 
branch of the Communist Party ; he could not tell the names of any of those who 
were members of this branch ; Louis F. Budeuz visited Milwaukee, and the wit- 
ness saw him there, but did not meet with him in a home in Milwaukee. 

Does that serve to refresh your recollection as to your testimony 
in 1948 before the Committee on Education and Labor of the House 
of Representatives ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Eisenscher. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Chairman, the question only asked if that served 
to refresh his memory. It certainly has nothing to do with the fifth 
amendment effect. Perhaps he should repeat the question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 653 

Mr. DoTLE. I instruct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Would you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the reading of the report which I have just 
completed refresh your recollection as to your having testified before 
the Committee on Education and Labor in 1948 ? 
(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. My answer still holds, Mr. Tavenner; that I re- 
fuse to answer this question on the grounds that the answer may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you testify before the House Committee on Edu- 
cation and Labor? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think I answered that question, sir, did I not? 

Mr. ScHERER. You may have. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer the question, sir, on the grounds 
that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you direct him to answer that question ? 

Mr. DoYLE. No ; I directed him to answer the question as to whether 
or not the reading of that report refreshed his memory. 

Mr. ScHERER. He may have some basis there but I don't think there 
is any basis for his refusing to answer the question as to whether he 
testified before a committee of Congress, and I ask that you direct 
him to answer that question. 

Mr. DoTUE. I direct you to answer Mr. Scherer's question. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think you are correct that your question is dif- 
ferent from Mr, Tavenner's. Therefore, I will answer your question, 
although my answer will be the same; that I refuse to answer this 
question on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. When you testified before the House Committee on 
Education and Labor were you telling the truth? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me. I believe it is an 
attempt at entrapment. 

( Counsel conferred with witness. ) 

Mr. ScHERER. I agree because I think if you said you were telling 
the truth, that might incriminate you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Michael J. Onclrejka? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the 
grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate and degrade me. 

Mr. Doyle. We always give a witness an opportunity to defend 
himself against any indication that he might be degraded by any 
testimony, so we now give you an opportunity to explain how it might 
degrade you. Do you want that opportunity? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Doyle, on 
the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with James E. Eggleston? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question also on the 
grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Would that degrade you, too ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I will leave the judgment of Mr. Eggleston to 
his own people, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Eggleston testified here about attending a 
study course in your home which was organized by and for the Com- 
munist Party and that you dropped in at one of those meetings. Do 
you recall it ? 



654 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. EisENscHER. I will not answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the grounds that I have indicated before; that the answer may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider that it would degrade you? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I will not answer your question, sir. I think it 
is facetious. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; I think it is called for in light of your answer 
to the question a moment ago. 

Mr. Doyle. I think I have seen you sitting here all morning in 
this room ; have I not ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I was here, Mr. Doyle ; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. So you heard the testimony that was given? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Yes ; I heard it. 

Mr. Doyle. Sure you did. 

That is all, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there anything about Mr. Eggleston's testi- 
mony that was untrue? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the 
grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Willis? 

Mr. Willis. Are you now or have you ever been a Communist? 

(Counsel conferred with the witness.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I don't believe, sir, that my political views should 
come under the censorship of any congressional committee. I will 
answer this question by saying that the answer may tend to incrimi- 
nate me, and, therefore, I will not give it. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, you have refused to tell us where you were 
"between the years 1951 and 1954 when you disappeared from Mil- 
waukee. Did you go to Eussia during that time? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. That is no laughing matter. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I will refuse to answer your question on the 
grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you engage in any instructions in sabotage? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Sir, your question is insulting, but I will refuse 
to answer it on the gTounds that the answer may tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. ^Ylielher my question is insulting or not, is what I 
said true or false? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I will not answer your question, sir, on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you mean you will take the fifth amendment on 
that question? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think, sir, your question is provocative. 

Mr. SciiERER. Mr. Chairman, when we get to executive session, this 
is one of those cases that I am going to move be referred to the Depart- 
ment of Justice to determine whether or not denaturalization proceed- 
ings should be commenced against this witness. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any further questions? 

Mr. ScHERER. I have no further questions. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 655 

Mr. DoTi.E. Mr. Eisensclier, when you were in Long Island you were 
6 or 7 years old. You so stated. Do you remember? 

Mr. EisENscHER. That is the approximate age, Mr. Doyle. I can't 
remember specifically. 

Mr. Doyle. I realize that you couldn't remember that far accurately, 
but was you father alive tlien? 

Mr. EiSEXscHER. Yes ; he was. 

Mr. Doyle. When did your father die ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. My father did not die, sir. 

Mr. DoYLE. I beg your pardon. Where does he live? 

Mr. EiSEXscHER. He lives in New Jersey. 

Mr. DoYLE. Have you ever had in your possession his certificate of 
citizenship ? 

Mr. EisENSCHER. I recall that at the time when I was in the Army, 
the Army required me to provide proof of citizenship, and I recall 
asking my father to send me a certified copy of the document in 
question, and I believe at that time I turned it over to the Army 
authorities and they copied the material in the document and then 
returned it, I think, to me or to my father — I forget whom. 

Mr. Doyle, They returned it to you, did they not? I want you to 
produce it, please. 

Mr. Eise^scher. I don't have it in my possession, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Where is it? 

Mr. Eise]sscher. I believe I sent it back home. 

Mr. Doyle. What did the document state as to the date and city 
in which your father was naturalized ? 

]\Ir. Eisexscher. That is part of the record, sir; I don't remem- 
ber it. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you mean to tell me that you do not remember 
the date and city in which the document showed your father was 
naturalized ? 

]\Ir. Eisexscher. I don't remember it; that is the fact. 

Mr. Doyle. I know that you have a clear memory on other things. 

Mr. ScHERER. When were you in the Army ? 

Mr. EiSEXf^CHER. I was in the Army from 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Eisexscher. In 1942 I enlisted in the Army. I wasn't drafted. 
I served for 44 months altogether. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you a member of the Commimist Party while 
you were in the Army ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Eisexscher. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the 
grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliich would incriminate you ? I am not clear. Being 
a member of the Communist Party while being in the Army, or being a 
member of the United States Army ? 

Mr. Eisexscher. Sir, I am not ashamed of being in the Army. I am 
proud of the record I was able to build while I was in the Army. 

Mr. Doyle. I think you ought to be in spite of the fact that you 
were probably a member of the Communist Party at the same time,, 
according to our information. 

Mr. ScHERER. I have no further questions. 



656 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. Wlien did you last see the document for naturalization 
of your father ? You say you did not remember whether you had it 
sent back to your father or whether you kept it. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. As a matter of fact, Mr. Doyle, I don't recall dis- 
tinctly whether I saw it myself. I don't remember whether he sent it 
to the Army or me. That is a detail which I don't recall at the moment. 
The facts in the document can be readily referred to. 

Mr. DoTLE. In what State was he naturalized? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I believe it was in New York. Of this I am not 
sure. As I said, I don't remember any details regarding that, because 
this happened many, many years ago and long before I came of age. 
In fact, I didn't even know ; I didn't even know up until the time the 
question was presented to me ; I wasn't even sure under what condi- 
tions my father had become a citizen. It took the United States Army 
to force me to find out for myself. 

Mr. DoTLE. The Army had to force you to do it ? In other words, 
you were not interested enough to find out whether or not you were 
an American citizen until the war came. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I think I am as good an American, sir, as any 
member of your committee. 

Mr. Doyle. I do not know if any of us has ever pleaded the fifth 
amendment or would. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. When you were out of sight and out of hearing during 
those 3 years approximately, did you go to Poland? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. Wliat period are you speaking of, sir? 

Mr. Doyle. 1951-54. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question 

Mr. Doyle. Where did you go ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. On the grounds that the answer may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. "\'\niere were you living at that time ? 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. The same answer pertains to this. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you live at 3929 West Vliet Street, Milwaukee, on 
December 17, 1947? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Doyle, on 
advice of counsel on the grounds that the answer may tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. DoixE. The reason I asked you that question is because on 
this exhibit which has been identified here where you announced that 
you were offering yourself as candidate for election to mayor, the 
address given on that document is 3929 West Vliet Street, Milwaukee 
8, Wis., December 17, 1947. 

Are there any other questions ? 

Any questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. Doyle. The witness is excused. 

Mr. EiSENSCHER. I was given 2 subpenas, 1 dated for appearance 
today and 1 for April 4. It is my understanding tliat the other 
subpena is vacated also. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 657 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; you were notified tliat a subpena was served 
afterward moving the date up until today, so you may ignore the 
one for April 4. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess for 3 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will come to order, please. 

I want to announce that we will begin tomorrow morning at 9 
o'clock. 

I have in my hand a statement by the last witness, Sigmund G. 
Eisenscher, which was handed to the newspapers in this room immedi- 
ately after he received his $6 witness fee for being a witness here. 
He left the room, and the committee had no opportunity to question 
him about this statement which attacks the committee. 

I just wish to say that this is the usual, habitual, snide, sneaking, 
deceitful way that members of the Communist Party use in connection 
with hearings before congressional committees. We only regret that 
the gentleman was not frank and fair enough with the committee 
and with the people of Milwaukee to present us with this statement 
of his so that we could have time and an opportunity to question him 
about it. 

Mr. Tavenner, are you ready with your next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Alfred H. Hirsch, please. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Alfred H. Hirsch, please. 

Mr. DoYT.E. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I do. 

Mr. DoYLE. Be seated, please. 

TESTIMONY OF ALFRED H. HIRSCH, ACCOMPANIED BY M. MICHAEL 
ESSIN, COUNSEL 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state you name, please? 

Mr. Hirsch. I am Alfred H, Hirsch. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted the witness is accompanied by counsel. 
Would counsel identify himself for the record, please? 

Mr. EssiN. The name is M. Michael Essin, E-s-s-i-n; address 623 
North Second Street, Milwaukee, Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where you born, Mr. Hirsch ? 

Mr. Hirsch. New York, N. Y., February 19, 1908. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you now reside ? 

Mr. Hirsch. Milwaukee, Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Hirsch. Fourteen and a half years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

]VIr. Hirsch. I went to grammar school, high school, bachelor of 
arts. Harvard University; master of arts, Columbia University; 
studied in Europe on several occasions but received no degrees. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of your degree at Harvard ? 

Mr. Hirsch. 1929. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you complete your course at Columbia? 

Mr. Hirsch. I believe in 1931. 



658 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 

Mr. HiRSCH. Self-employed. 

Mr. Ta's^nner. In what type of work are you engaged ? 

Mr, HiRScii. I have a letter shop. 

Mr. Tavenner. What does that mean ? 

Mr. Hirsch. Mimeographed material and multigraphed material, 
mail for people. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Hirsch. In 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time where did you live? 

Mr. Hirsch. New York City, Connecticut, Europe. 

Mr. Tavenner, For how long a period had you lived in New York 
prior to coming to Milwaukee? 

INIr. Hirsch. My official residence was in New York from February 
1908 to 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was from the time of your birth until you 
came here ? 

Mr, Hirsch. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you said that during that period of time you 
lived in Connecticut and also 

Mr. Hirsch. My legal residence was in New York State during 
that entire period. 

Mr, Tavenner. I am more interested in where you were than where 
your legal residence may have been. 

How long were you a resident of New York prior to your coming 
to ^Milwaukee ? 

jMr. Hirsch. About 10 years. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Was it before that 10-year period that you lived in 
Connecticut ? 

Mr. Hirsch. No. It was about a year during that period. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live in Connecticut? 

Mr, Hirsch. Eedding Ridge, Conn. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. "Wliat was your occupation in Connecticut ? 

]Mr. Hirsch, I was writing a book, 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your occupation during the 10-year 
period that you lived in New York before coming to Milwaukee ? 

Mr, Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer may force me to testify against myself under the fifth 
amendment, 

Mr, Tavenner, What was your purpose in coming to Milwaukee? 

Mr, Hirsch. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. In what business did you engage after coming to 
Milwaukee in 1942? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds that be- 
ing the same question. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in the business 
that you refer to as the letter business ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Hirsch, Since July 1951, 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your business prior to July 1951 ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I read into evidence here an article from a local 
paper which referred to a number of people having left Milwaukee 
in 1951 when the Communist Party went underground. Do you have 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 659 

any knowledge of persons who were members of the Communist Party 
leaving Milwaukee in 1951 ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not the action of the 
Communist Party in having its membership go underground in Mil- 
waukee in 1951, in anyway affected your decision to change your occu- 
pation from one which prior to July 1951 was a ty[)e of business that 
you will not tell us about, to a business which you have described as 
being the letter business ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I 
cannot be forced to testify against myself under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hirsch, will you tell the connnittee, please, 
whether or not you were affiliated in any manner with an organization 
known as the Sound View Foundation ^ 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer tliat question on the same grounds. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Were you ever acquainted with a person by the 
name of Mr. Benjamin Gitlow ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment as previously cited. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Were you acquainted with Joe Brodsky ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. TA^TNXER. Mr. Benjamin Gitlow testified before this commit- 
tee in 1953 regarding certain activities of the Sound View Founda- 
tion. During the course of his testimony he advised the committee 
that all the officials of that organization, which included you and Mr. 
Joseph Brodsky, were members of the Communist Party. Was he 
correct or in error in that sworn testimony before this committee ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were vou an official of the Sound View Founda- 
tion? 

Mr. HiESCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were vou a member of the Communist Party in 
1946 ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. During a hearing in Washington, I believe in 1949, 
Mr. Emspak appeared as a witness. He was asked numerous ques- 
tions regarding the publication of the CIO, called the CIO News, of 
which he was an editor. Were you at any time connected in an edi- 
torial capacity with the CIO News ? 

Mr. PIiRscH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to 
answer that question. 

Mr. I)oYLE. I direct you, Mr. Hirsch, to answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Hirsch. I will give the same answer as before. I refuse to 
answer on the basis of the fifth amendment as previously cited. 



660 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this a publication of the CIO known as the^ 
Wisconsin CIO News? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSCH. I believe there was and perhaps still is such a publica- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you uncertain about that ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I believe there was such a publication. Whether there* 
still is I am not certain about. 

Mr. Ta^tenner. Is there any uncertainty about there having been 
such a publication ? When you say you believe, it leads me to think 
that you have some uncertainty in your own mind about that. 

Mr. HiRSCH. The uncertainty is prompted by names that you men- 
tioned on your brief question which had no connection whatsoever with_ 
any such publication. Perhaps we are talking about two different, 
guys. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. The Wisconsin CIO News was an entirely different- 
publication from the CIO News of which Julius Emspak was the edi- 
tor. Is that what you mean ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. My previous answer was a refusal to answer on the- 
grounds of the fifth amendment. My answer to this question is based 
on belief because I don't want it to be confused with your previous 
question. 

Ml'. Tavenner. I am trying to ask you to clear that matter up if' 
possible to see if there is any connection. 

Mr. HiRSCH. There was a Wisconsin CIO News there. 

^Ir. Tavenner. And you were its editor, were you not? 

Mr. IIiRSCH. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendments 

Mr. Tavenner. Then why did you tell the committee that you be- 
lieved there was when you know very well that there was ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. Because I was trying to point out that your previous- 
question was a very confused question and I wanted to separate the- 
two questions. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you removed from editorship of the AViscon- 
sin CIO News? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds,, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Wliy were you removed as editor ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.. 

Mr. Scherer. Was it because of your Communist Party activity? 

Mr. Htrsch. I refuse to answer the question on the same gi-ounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a publication known as. 
the Midwest Guardian? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSGii. What could you mean by acquainted with, Mr.. 
Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of the existence of such a paper? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSCH. Tliere was such a paper in existence that I knew about.. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Did you become a member of the editorial staff of it ?' 

Mr. HiRSGH. I refuse to answer that question on the same gi'oimds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. I think the witness should be directed to answer that 
question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 661 

Mr. HiESCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds^ 
iifth amendment. 

Mr. Doyle, I direct you to answer the question, Mr. Hirsch. 

Mr, Hirsch. I have repeated my refusal to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time represented a publication 
by the name of March of Labor ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds^ 
the fifth amendment. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr, Scherer. You have been an agent of the March of Labor here 
in Milwaukee since 1951, have you not? 

Mr. Hirsch, I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr, Scherer, Mr, Counsel, will you tell us the status of the March 
of Labor ? I know we issued a report on the March of Labor, 

Mr. Tavenner. This committee, after conducting a hearing and 
investigation regarding the March of Labor and its owners and edi- 
torial staff, made a report showing the character of it as a Communist 
labor publication and in the course of the hearing, ascertained this: 
information which I want to submit to the witness to see if it is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. Before you go ahead, that March of Labor report,, 
with the finding you have indicated, was made just last year, was it 
not? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir ; that is correct. In a list of agents which 
was furnished to the committee the name of Alfred Hirsch, 1402 East 
Boylston Street, Milwaukee, Wis., was given the conmiittee with the- 
number of copies furnished him, 200. 

Did you receive a sizable number of copies of the March of Labor- 
from that organization ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds,, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr, Tavenner, What disposition have you made of any issues of this 
publication which came into your custody ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds,, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it union dues which were used to pay for the- 
issues of this magazine ? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you have any direction from the Communist 
Party as to the dissemination of this magazine among any particular- 
groups such as labor unions ? 

Mr, Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds,, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in this room this afternoon during the; 
testimony of Mr. Eggleston ? 

Mr. Hirsch. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. Doyle. How about this morning ? 

Mr. Hirsch. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear his description of what was told him. 
about the taking over of certain areas of this country by the Com- 
munist Party for the Negro race ? 

Mr. Hirsch. Yes. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 



662 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tayenner. Are you acquainted with the Communist Party 
teachings on that subject ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you connected at any time with the Interna- 
tional Labor Defense ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you 1 of 4 individuals that went to the State 
of Alabama at the insistence of the International Labor Defense for 
the purpose of appearing in a case there involving a Negro by the 
name of Herndon ? 

(Counsel conferred with the witness.) 

Mr. IIiRSCH. I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment 
that I cannot be compelled to testify against myself. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not find upon arriving there that this per- 
son by the name of Herndon had in his possession a number of copies 
of the book entitled "Negro Liberation" ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer on the same grounds, that I cannot 
be compelled to testify against myself. 

( Witness conferred with counsel. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Bruce Crawford ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer on the grounds that I cannot be 
compelled to testify against myself. 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Chairman, I think you should order the witness 
to answer that question. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer that, Mr. Hirsch. 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer on the same grounds, the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. I hand you a photostatic copy of part of an edition 
of a magazine by the name of New Masses. Under date of August 
20, 1935, on page 13 there is an article on behalf of an Angelo Herndon 
by Alfred Hirsch. Will you examine it, please ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSCH. Is there any question before the committee at this 
moment, Mr. Tavvener? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine it, please and state whether or 
not you wrote that article under your name ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you not accused at that time with having come 
to Alabama for the purpose of promoting communism? 

Mr. Hirsch. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you say accused or arrested ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Accused. I did not mean in the sense of legally 
arrested or a legal charge, but accused by persons who were prosecut- 
ing the Herndon case. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 663 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go to Alabama at the insistence of the Com- 
munist Party in connection with any case? 

Mr. HiRSCii. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

(Counsel conferred with witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the East Side Branch of the 
Communist Party in Milwaukee? 

Mr. IIiRSCii. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
[ cannot be forced to testify against myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Ester Eisenscher? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Harry Virgil? 

Mr. HiRscH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Merle Snyder? 

Mr. HiRSCii. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. HiRSCPi. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. HiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

^[r. Tavenner. I have no further questions, !Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Congressman Willis. 

Mr. Willis. I have no questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Congressman Scherer. 

Mr. Sciierer. Witness, you have refused to answer all significant 
questions on the grounds that to do so might tend to incriminate you. 
As I said to the previous witness the law is that this committee, with 
the approval of the Federal court, could grant immunity in certain 
cases. If this committee should grant you such immunity, would you 
then answer the questions which have been asked you on which you 
pleaded the fifth amendment? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. HiRscH. When the issue is presented I will deal with it as T see 
fit. 

Mr. Scherer. Then you refuse to say whether you would answer 
those questions even if you were granted immunity from pi'osecution? 

Mr. HiRscH. When the issue is before me 1 will act on it. That is 
the answer. 

Mr. Scherer. But you have stated today that your only reason for 
refusing to answer these questions was that you fear prosecution. 
If I tell you and you know that you cannot face prosecution because 
of tlie action of this committee, will you then answer? 

Mr. HiRscH. I will only repeat my answer : Wlien the issue arises 
it will be dealt with. The issue is not here. 

Mr. Scherer. That only indicates that you are not pleading the 
fifth amendment in good faith. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you anything else, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. I have nothing further. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Hirsch, I want to say to you what I meant to say 
to that last witness before he got off the stand. It is regulation for 
us to say this to every witness who pleads the fifth amendment and 

0.370C — 55— pt. 1 5 



664 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

of whom the records before us, resulting from investigation and rec- 
ords, clearly indicate that we know pretty much about him and his 
activities in the Communist Party. 

You have apparently had great educational opportunities. I am 
glad that you have had. I want to urge you to dedicate your mag- 
nificent talents to the best interests of your own Government instead 
of being directly or indirectly tied up with that scheme of forceful 
revolution that looks toward totalitarian government instead of our 
own free and American way of life. 

If you think that is preaching to you then think it, but as an Ameri- 
can Congressman I cannot saj^ less to you than to urge you to use those 
brilliant talents of yours in the best interests of our Nation instead 
of letting a revolting totalitarian Communist conspiracy have the 
beneht of your brilliant talents and abilities. 

I appreciate your letting me say this to you. I mean every word 
of it. 

(Witness excused.) 

(At this point Mr. Scherer left the room and returned.) 

Mr. Doyle. I would like the record of these hearings to show in 
connection with the questioning of Mr. Sigmund Gustav Eisenscher 
that at all times during his questioning the full personnel of the 
subcommittee was present in the hearing room. Mr, Jackson, of 
course, was not present but he was a member of the subcommittee of 
three officially appointed by the chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner, will you proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr, Mortimer Altman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Altman, will you rise and be sworn ? Do you sol- 
emnly swear that the testimony you will give w^ill be the truth, the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Altman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OP MORTIMER ALTMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
JACK L. GOODSITT 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, sir? 

Mr. Altman. Mortimer Altman, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness identify 
himself for the record? 

Mr. GooDSiTT. My name is Jack L. Goodsitt. My office is 623 North 
Second Street. 

Mr, Tavenner, When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Altman, I was born in Calumet, Mich, in 1902. 

Mr, Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your educational training has been? 

Mr. A.LTMAN, Grade school, high school, and 2 years at Minnesota 
University. 

Mr. Tavenner, Where do you now reside ? 

Mr, Altman, Milwaukee, 

Mr. Ta%^nner. How long have lived in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Altman, Approximately since 1930, I guess it was 1930. 

Mr, Tavenner, ' What is your business or occupation ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 665 

Mr. Altman. I am a carpet mechanic and rug cleaner. That is my 
trade. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have yon been engaged in that business? 

Mr. Altman. Well, since about 1936 or something like that, or a 
little later. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you here a copy of the bylaws of the Com- 
munist Political Association of Wisconsin adopted by a State con- 
vention at Milwaukee June 10 and 11, 1944. Will you examine it 
please ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. It is the front page and back page of the consti- 
tution. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you to look at the back page and state 
whether or not the onicers of the Communist Party as of that date 
appear to be named there? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

]\Ir. Altman. That is what it says here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will j^ou read out the list of officers, please? 

Mr. Altiman. N. Sparks, president; vice presidents, Emil Luchter- 
hand. Sigmnnd Eisensclier: secretary, Fred B. Blair; treasurer, 
Mortimer Altman. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to that you were treasurer of the Com- 
munist Political Association in 1944 and you should be in a position 
to give this committee valuable information relating to the source of 
income of the Communist Party in this area so long as you held that 
position. 

How long did you hold the position of treasurer? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer. I invoke the fifth amendment on 
Hie grounds that this answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, how many mem- 
bers of the Communist Political Association there were in June 1944? 

Mr. Altman. The same answer. I refuse to answer, fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. ScHERER. Maybe he could tell us how many there are as of to- 
day. Do you know how many members of the Communist Party there 
are in the State of Wisconsin today ? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment, on the 
ground that this tends to incriminate me. 

Mr. ScHERER. You are presently the State organizer of the Com- 
munist Party, are you not ? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the ground that this answer 
might tend to incriminate me. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. It is desired to introduce the document in evidence 
and ask that it be marked "Altman Exhibit No. 1," for identification 
purposes only, and to be made a part of the committee files. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of another document 
and ask you to examine it, please, and state to the committee what it 
is. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Altman. What do you want me to do with this? 



666 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I want you to tell us what that document is. 

Mr. Altman. Do you want me to read it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Just tell us what it is. 

Mr. Altman. It appears to be an announcement for an "entertain- 
ment and educational in the North Avenue Auditorium, third floor, 
Committee of Experts will be present each evening to answer your 
questions." 

Mr. Tavenner. It refers to certain dates, does it not? 

Mr. Altman. Yes; it appears to refer to certain dates. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wluit are those dates? 

Mr. Altman. It appears to state Tuesday, December 5; Tuesday, 
January 9; and Tuesday, January 23. 

JVIr. Tavenner. Of what year? 

Mr. Altman. It doesn't aj)pear here. 

Mr. Tavenner. According lo your recollection what was the year? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that this answer 
might tend to incriminate me, the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavener. Who were the experts to whom questions would be 
submitted at those meetings? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer 
might tend to incriminate me. Fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you tell the committee, please, how the 
document is signed? 

Mr. Altman. It appears to be printed "Mortimer Altman, chair- 
man." 

Mr. Tavenner. Chairman of what? 

Mr. Altman. I will read what it says here, "North Side Communist 
Club." 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you chairman of the North Side Communist 
Club when that document was printed? 

]\Ir. Altman. I refuse to answer because the answer might tend to 
incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavtsnner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Altman Exhibit No. 2," for identification purposes 
only, and to be made a part of the committee fdes. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you another paper which is entitled "Report 
of the Executive Committee on the Work of the North Side Club" 
and it is signed Executive Board, North Side Communist Club. 

Will you examine it, please? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you look at the first paragraph and state what 
it is shown there to be the total membership of the North Side Com- 
munist Club at that time? 

Mr. Altman. Do you want me to read that? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Altman. I will read what it says on there: 

"One of the main indications of health in any organization is 
whether or not" — "Since 1943 our club has shown a steady growth in 
membership as well as in activity." It says here, "In January 1943 we 
had 49 members and in January of 1944, 73." It also says, "In spring 
of 1944 we recruited 38 new members and our 1945 enrollment" — it 
states, "We now have a membership of 118." 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 667 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Was that a correct estimate of the membership at 
that time? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that this answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. In other words, you will not tell this committee any- 
thing regarding your knowledge of Communist Party activities in 
the Milwaukee area ? 

Mr. Altman. I gave you my answer, fifth amendment. 

Mr. SciiERER. He could be very helpful knowing who the 118 are. 
1 would like to know whether they are in some of these defense 
plants. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. How many clubs were there of the Communist Party 
in 1945 in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that this answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavexner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence and 
ask that it be marked "Altman Exhibit No. 3" for identification pur- 
poses only, and to be made a part of the committee files. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Willis. The number indicated on that card is the number of 
the alleged memberships in one particular club; is that right? 

Mr. Tavt.nner. Tlint is right ; yes, sir. It was a club known as the 
North Side Communist Club at that time. 

We have introduced in evidence, Mr. Altman, an application for 
post office box in the name of Mr. Sigmund Eisenscher. Your name 
was given as a reference by him. A box was assigned as a result 
of the filing of that application, box 1088, which was used for Com- 
munist Party purposes. 

Were you interviewed or written to by the Post Office Department 
with regard to the reliability of the person seeking that post office 
box? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that the answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. The date of that document is September 30, 1954. 
Were you on September 30, 1954, a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that the answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

^Ir. Ta\'enner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Eggleston, who tes- 
tified here today, Mr. James R. Eggleston? 

(AVitness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer. I invoke the fifth amendment on 
the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner, Mr, Eggleston testified here before this committee 
that he knew you as a member of the Communist Party. He testified 
as to the circumstances under which he knew you. Do you desire to 
deny or in any way explain that testimony relating to you? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee how the Communist 
Party in this area raised the funds necessary to carry out its objec- 
tives in this area? 

Mr, Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS.. AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on tlie g-rounds that my answer 
miirlit tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. 
. Mr. Doyle. Mr. Willis? 

Mr. Willis. Did you say you are in the rug business ? 

Mr. Altman. I didn't say I was in the rug business. I said that 
is my trade. 

Mr. Willis. What business are you in ? 

Mr. Altman. I am a carpet layer by trade. 

Mr. Willis. Do you operate a shop of your own or are you working 
for someone ? 

Mr. Altman. No; my wife operates a shop and 1 work for lier. 

Mr. ScHERER. "Wliat is the name of that shop ? 

Mr. Altman. Long Life Rug Service. 

Mr. DoTLE. Does your wife have any other employees besides you ? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Willis. Do you refuse to say how many people work in the 
same establisliment that you work in ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer as to how 
many employees there are. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. Under advice of my counsel I refuse to answer on the 
grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me, fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are there any other persons connected with the Jjong 
Life Rug Co., other than you and your wife? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. Same answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct the witness to answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. The same answer that I gave before, fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. Could your refusal to answer that question be based 
on the fact that all the other emplovees are members of the Communist 
Party? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. Same answer that I gave before. 

Mr. ScHERER. Is it a fact that you only employ Communists? 

Mr. Altman. Same answer that I gave you before, fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. DoYLE. This gentleman does not claim that he is the proprietor. 
It is his wife that is the proprietor as I understand the testimony. Is 
that correct? Is it your wife's business solely or do you have an in- 
terest in it? You volunteered the information. That is why I am 
questioning you. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Altman. It is her business solely. 

Mr. DoYLE. The reason I asked that question, Mr. Altman, to be 
frank with you, is that our information is tliat it is quite a policy to 
employ Communists. Our information might be in error, but we do 
not think so. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 669 

Mr. ScHERER. Is that information we have correct 'I 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer 
might tend to incriminate me, fifth amendment. 

Mr, ScHERER. You do not deny that ? 

Mr. Altman. I just gave you my answer, fifth amendment. 

Mr. DoTLE. Mr. Altman, we believe our information is accurate and 
I think the questions that our distinguished counsel has asked you indi- 
cate that we know considerable. 

You have exercised your constitutional privilege under our great 
Constitution and claimed the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

May I, as just one American to another, urge you to get out of the 
damnable conspiracy headed toward totalitarian revolutionary force 
in the country, get out of it and help your country instead of the con- 
spirators that we believe you now are associated with. 

Mr. Altaian. I am a very good American. 

Mr. Doyle. You are not a good American if you are identified 
directly or indirectly with the Communist conspiracy. The courts 
have held pretty generally in the last 2 years that that is a totalitarian 
conspiracy designed to use force and violence, and you know it, do you 
not? Wliat is your answer to that? 

Mr. Altman. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. DoYLE. Of course you do. It puts you on the spot and you 
refuse to answer it. 

I gave you the chance to clear yourself as a good American. You 
cannot do it. 

I think that is all, Counsel. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow in 
this room at 9 o'clock in the morning. 

( Wliereupon, the hearing was recessed at 5 p. m., Monday, March 28, 
1955, to reconvene at 9 a. m., Tuesday, March 29, 1955.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 



TUESDAY, MARCH 29, 1955 

United States House of RErRESENTATivES, 

Subcommittee of the Committeb 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Milwaukee, TF^s. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-Americfin Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 9 : 15 a. m., in the marble courtroom, Federal 
Buildinfr, Milwaukee, Wis., Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of tho 
subcommittee) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle (chair- 
man), Edwin E. Willis, and Gordon H. Scherer. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and W. 
Jackson Jones, staff investi^rator. 

;Mr. DoTLE. The committee will please come to order. 

We will adjourn at 12 o'clock and reconvene a<?ain at 1 : 30. Wo 
anticipate meetin<r again tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock and finishing 
tomorrow afternoon. 

May the record show, please, that the full subcommittee personnel 
is here, being the official subcommittee for these hearings: Mr. 
Scherer, of Ohio, on my left; Mr. Willis, of Louisiana, on my right; 
and I am subcommittee chairman, Mr. Doyle, of California. 

Are you ready, ]\Ir. Tavenner? 

;Mr. Ta\t:nner, I call Michael Ondrejka. 

]\Ir. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Okhrejka. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Please be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL J. ONDREJKA 

"Slv. Ta\t:nner. Will you state your name, please? 

]Mr. Ondrejka. Michael John Ondrejka. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ondrejka, it is noted that you are not accom- 
panied by counsel. Do you know that you are entitled to counsel if 
you so desire? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, sir. 

^fr. Tavenner. "Wlien and where were you born? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I was born in Mayville, Wis., on August 28, 1924. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

671 



672 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. OxDERJKA. T reside in ISfilwaukee. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for- 
mal educational traininjj has been? 

Mr. OxDERjKA. Attended grammar school; I attended 3 years of 
high school and after the war I went to Marquette University where 
J. receiA'ed an LL. B. in law. 

Mv. Tavenner. When did you receive your degree in law? 

]\rr. OxDREJKA. In June of 1952. 

INIr. Tam^nner. Had you been in attendance constantly at the uni- 
versity from the time you started until you completed your law degree 
work in 1952, or was there an interval when you were not at school? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Only an interval of some months, but it is a con- 
tintious ])rocess from 1940 to 1952. 

Mv. Tavenner. You indicated that you were in the Army? 

]\f r. Oxderjka. I was in tlie United States Navy, sir, from March 18 
of 1943 to December 23 of 1945. 

]Mr. Tavenner. After the completion of your legal studies how 
did you become employed ? . 

Mr. Ondrejka. During the time I was going to school from 1946 
to 1952, I was working. I worked at the Allen-Bradley Co. from 
1946 to 1949 at which time we had a layoff. From 1949 until Feb- 
ruary 7 of 1951 I was employed in a retail shoe store and from 1951 
to this day I have been employed at Allen-Bradley Co. on a full-time 
basis. 

In addition, until November 17 of 1954 I was practicing law on a 
part-time basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ondrejka, have you at any time been a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes ; I have, sir, from November 1949 until Novem- 
ber of 1953. 

]SIr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances which led up to your becoming a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I was attending the summer session at the Mar- 
quette University Liberal Arts College and at that time we were 
taking a course in labor problems, and because of the fact that during 
summer sessions we had what you call much smaller classes instead 
of what you would normally have during the regular year, before 
class and after class we used to get into discussions and during the 
course of these discussions because of the fact that we were studying 
labor problems various items had come up, such as rights of unions, 
labor parties, the third party that was formed that year, the Trot- 
skyites, the Cannonites, the Communists, and what have you. 

As a result, I would say of these discussions before and after class, 
at the final week of the summer session the professor who was teaching 
labor problems asked me to step into his office. That was in August 
of 1948. 

At that time he told me that he had been a member of the FBI. 
At this time he had no official connections whatsoever but was merely 
interested in getting my viewpoint as to whether I would consider 
going into the Communist Party at the request of the FBI. 

At that time I was working 8 hours a day at the plant and going 
to school full time plus many other things, and I felt that I couldn't 
devote the time to it, so he thanked me for my time and said forget it. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 673 

Mr. Tavenner. Up until that time what experience had you had 
in the field of labor? 

Mr. Ondrejka. In the field of labor itself I have had a lot because 
I have worked from the time I have been 15 years old. Now, as to 
labor unions itself I was a member of an association in a shoe company 
in my home town. I worked in a sheet-metal plant at which time I 
was associated with the American Federation of Labor, a metalsmith 
union out there. When I came to Milwaukee in the summer of 1946 
I worked under a permit for the ClO-UAW Auto Workers. When I 
was at the xVllen-Bradley Co. from January of 1947 until which time 
my employment was terminated I had been a member of the United 
Electrical ^ which was then in the CIO. 

In addition to having been a member of that union I lived right 
around the corner and at that time I worked a second shift, and it 
was probably a process of at least 2 or 3 times a week I would stop 
into the union office for an hour or 2 hours before I went to work to 
keep up on the field of labor. 

In 1949 to 1951 we had no union, but from 1951 when I returned 
to the Allen-Bradley Co. until October of 1953 I was a member of 
the United Electrical Workers Independent. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that this suggestion was made to 
you while you were a student at Marquette University ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you were about to tell us about an approach 
that was later made to you ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. After I had been laid off at 
the Allen-Bradley Co. I was working in a retail shoe establishment 
on Wisconsin Avenue and it was on one of those days that two agents 
from the Federal Bureau of Investigation came into the shoe store 
and asked if they could talk to me. I had just been newly hired and 
told them that I would be glad to talk to them, but not in the store, 
and I would see them later. 

The later date came a week or two later when I came out of class. 
They took me to a car and told me what they had in mind and the 
great need of people to go into the Communist Party in order to get 
information, and as a result of an hour or hour and a half discussion 
on the matter I told them that I would join the Communist Party and 
give them information. 

Mr. Willis. When was that, so that I can fix it in my mind ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. This was in the spring of 1949, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you join immediately or did it take some period 
of time for you to develop a situation by which you could become 
a member without the circumstances under which you were joining 
becoming known ? 

Mr. ONDRf:jKA. It was a situation that called for a certain amount 
of time, sir. My first contact or my first step in getting into the 
Communist Party was to go to the People's Book Store, which was 
then located in the 800 block of Wisconsin Avenue. When I went 
into the bookstore at that time I told them that I wanted a study 
outline on the first volume of Das Kapital by Karl Marx. I told them 
that I was going to Marquette University. The lady waiting on 



Roference to United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America. 



674 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

me was from ISIarquette. I told her why I wanted it ; because I wanted 
to make a study of voUmie I. 

I had read "it, but the matter was still a little fuzzy in my mind 
because I didn't think I was able to comprehend it without the use of 
an outline. At that time she tokl me they had no outlines, but she 
would attempt to get me an outline, so instead she sold me several 
pamphlets on various phases of Das Kapital. 

I bought several of her pamphlets, and she told me to return and 
she would see what she could do about giving me an outline. I 
returned and at that time they had no outline. She took my address 
and told me she would write to the Jefferson School of Social Sciences 
in New York to see if such outlines were available. 

During the following weeks I stopped into the bookstore 2 or 3 
times a week. I would pick up the Daily Worker and buy a magazine 
or two. At that time during the noon hour there was a young fellow 
working there by the name of Ted Silverstine. In the course of my 
coming there he would engage me in discussion. 

Possibly after 3 weeks of my going to the bookstore for literature, 
Ted Silverstine invited me to attend a meeting of the Young 
Progressives of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you go on from there and state just what oc- 
curred in the course of your membership in that organization which 
led you finally into the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I joined the Young Progressives of America ap- 
proximately in April or ])ossibly the early part of May of 1949. At 
that time we met in the People's Progressive Party office which is the 
political party that had their national candidates — in 1948 it was 
founded. That is the office we used for our meetings. 

At the first meeting that I attended I signed up. At the next elec- 
tion I was made editorial director and I pursued my activities in the 
Young Progressives of America until September of 1949 when the 
first contact was made insofar as the Communist Party was con- 
cerned. 

This contact was made by one of the active YPA'ers by the name of 
Merle Snyder. He had driven me home from meetings several times 
and at one of those times as we were crossing the viaduct we had been 
engaged in the various political discussions and at that time he told 
me he was a member of the Communist Party, and what did I think. 

I told him I wasn't; that was his belief; I wasn't a Communist or 
anythmg. I was independent and from this night on, almost weekly, 
he approached me about going and seeing somebody else about fur- 
thering the studying of communism and this and that, and I didn't 
want to seem like I was too eager to get in and kept holding him off 
by various pretensions until finally in the latter part of October of 
1949 I had told him that I would go with him to see the person he 
wanted me to see. 

On that particular night he drove me out to South 92d Street to a 
home and introduced me to one of the organizers of the Communist 
Party whose name I did not know at that time was Harry Virgil. 
Harry Virgil and myself and Merle had talked about the subject of 
communism. I told him that as far as I was concerned my only reluc- 
tance for not joining the party was because of the fact that I was 
going to a Catholic university, because of my family background, their 
religious background and various other reasons, and I posed the ques- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 675 

tion at that time that I was afraid that sometime in the future some 
FBI agent would get his way into the party and 1 would expose myself 
at Marquette and it would ruin any possibility of a career. 

He pointed out to me, in fact the very action he did was this: If 
we were to find someone m the party it would be [indicating] for 
him, although he pointed out that at that time he did not mean physi- 
cally and his statement was "we have ways and means of dealing with 
people like that ; that they would regret the day they ever came into 
the party at the request of the FBI." After he had thus taken care 
of my fears I told him I was glad to join, and at that time I was told 
what meeting I was to attend, and at the subsequent meeting I was 
signed up in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. \Vliat was your first assignment in the Communist 
Party? ' 

Mr. Ondrejka. The very first meeting I attended in the Communist 
Party was as a member of the East Side branch of the Communist 
Party of Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us where the meeting was held ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, I can. It was held at an apartment on South 
10th right across from Red Arrow Park. I don't remember the ad- 
dress. I lived there for a few months at one time but not at this par- 
ticular time. The persons who did live there at that time who will 
be named this morning as members of the Communist Party were 
Merle Snyder, the man that they had taken me to see Harry Virgil, 
Sidney Berger, and Herb Major. It was in their living room that 
this meeting was held. 

Mr. Tavenner. What took place at that meeting? 

ISIr. Ondrejka. At that meeting the organizer for the area was 
at that meeting and she is the one that signed me into the party. 
Her name was Ester Eisencher. She had what looked to me to bo 
nothing but a receipt book, a small receipt book which had a carbon 
in it so there would be a duplicate. 

She had mentioned that I was to be temporarily assigned to the 
East Side branch. She wrote my name, the initiation fee to get 
into the party, and I don't know what other information on this little 
receipt book. She took one out of the book; the other remained in 
the book. She handed it to me and said "now you are formally in." 
She took this receipt back and tore it into tiny bits. 

That is the only thing I have ever seen that purports to be a party 
card or any other evidence of membership, and that was torn up in 
front of me at that meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. But the duplicate which was attached to the book 
was retained by Ester Eisenscher? 

Mr, Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the relationship, if any, between Ester 
P^isenscher and Sigmund Eisenscher? 

Mr. Ondrejka. The relationship between Ester Eisenscher and 
Sigmund Eisenscher is that of a brother and sister. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall at this time whether there were any 
other persons present at that first meeting that you attended? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, I can, sir. The people "in attendance at this 
meeting were as follows: Harry Virgil, the man whom I had seen 
previously at that time, was the chairman of the East Side branch of 
the party. In addition there was his wife, Ida Virgil. In addition 



676 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

the members that were tliere were INIerle Snyder, the man that had 
taken me to see Harry Virgil; Otis Daigle. Another who was there 
was Alfred Hirsch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you see Alfred TTirsch here yesterday? 

]\Ir. Ondrejka. Yes, I did, sir. He was the second witness to 
testify in the afternoon. He followed Sigmund Eisenscher. The 
other party that was there was George Sommers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you at this time tell us a little more about the 
activities of the various persons that you have mentioned as you 
learned later; for instance Mr. Virgil. "What was his activity in 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. In addition to being in the East Side branch of 
the Communist Party at every People's Progressive Party affair I 
attended, for instance the 3 national conventions, for instance when I 
was in the Young Progressives of America there were times where 
the executive board of the YPA would meet in a People's Progressive 
Party office at which time Harry Virgil and I would either be mimeo- 
graphing or folding leaflets. In addition I met Harry Virgil at 
one of the Communists' efforts to have a peace group which was held 
in the Civil Rights Congress office. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned Otis Daigle. 

Mr. Ondrejka. As to Otis Daigle, except possibly for having met 
him at some of the open Communist meetings, I have never seen him 
at any other affair. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You mentioned George Sommers. How do you 
spell his last name? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I believe his last name is spelled S-o-m-m-e-r-s. At 
that time his activity was to be done in the Brewery Workers' Local 9. 
At the very first meeting that I had attended, or possibly the second 
in the East Side branch, there was a campaign on about the fact that 
colored people did not have seniorities in the brewery plants in Mil- 
waukee, and they had been having a leaflet barrage at the plant, and 
at that meeting George Sommers Avas instructed that he w^as to take 
up the matter with the officers of local 9. 

Not only was he going to go in on a basis of their hiring Negroes 
in production work, but it was to be his job to see that they were 
given superseniority in order to compensate them for the time that 
they had lost by not being hired in the breweries. 

Mr. Tam^nner. After attending the first meeting of the Commu- 
nist Party, after your becoming a member, did you continue in attend- 
ance at the meetings of the East Side branch of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I was only in the East Side branch of the Commu- 
nist Party for 2 or possibly 3 meetings. At the second or the third, 
which would have been the last. Ester Eisenscher was at that meet- 
ing also, and she had said that when I was assigned to the East Side 
branch it was a temporary assignment, which was true. They told 
me that in the first instance. 

She said now because of my age and the fact that it was only a 
temporary assignment that Merle Snyder and myself were to be 
transferred from the East Side branch of the Communist Party into 
the youth group branch of the Communist Party. 

At the end of this meeting we were in the living room, and I believe 
it to be the executive board of the youth group of the Communist 
Party were meeting in the kitchen the same night. The reason why 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES :IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 677 

I remember is because of the fact that it was brought up at our meet- 
ing that it wasn't a good policy for two groups to be meeting in the 
same apartment at the same time, and, furthermore, at that time this 
was the third consecutive meeting in the apartment. I was decided 
that the enext meeting was to be held at the home of Harry Virgil so as 
not to meet in the same place. 

Mr. Doyle. Why would you not want to meet in the same place? 
Why would you \Yant to change your meeting places ? 

Mr. Ondrejka, For security reasons, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. What security reasons ? What law were you violating? 

Mr. Ondrejka. At that time I don't think you were violating a law 
by meeting, but, nevertheless, I do know this to be a fact, that there 
was to be rotation, and as we developed this further in later years 
after this was a law I will go through some of the steps that they set 
up as security. 

For instance, later when we held meetings it was necessary to have 
either the radio or television sound on in the same room so as to end 
any effort to wiretap a room and things like that. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, these were secret meetings, designed 
as such, and that is why they wanted to change the meeting place? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You and Merle Snyder were assigned to the youth 
group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us about your activity within the youth 
group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. To start with one of the activities in the youth group 
of the Communist Party was as follows : I didn't want to go back into 
the Youn^ Progressives of America. I had been in there from the 
previous April until April of 1950 and at this particular meeting of 
the youth group of the Communist Party which was held at the home 
of Helen Oilman, on the agenda we were to decide who were to be 
the officers of the Young Progressives of America. 

At that time I was told that I would have to be cochairman with a 
young colored lady that we had just recruited into the Young Pro- 
gressives a short time before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that pei^on a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. She is not. 

Mr. Tavenner. She never was at that time? 

Mr. Ondrejka. She was not. At that time Jim Eggleston was 
the chairman of the youth group. I remember writing a report about 
him being chairman. He is the man who testified yesterday. 

I told them that I did not want to take the responsibility of being 
cochairman or chairman of the Young Progressives of America be- 
cause of the fact that I was working almost full time, going to school 
full time plus the additional meetings, that I would prefer to go into 
something that was more of an academic nature. 

At that time it was pointed out to me by the executive board of the 
youth group of the Communist Party that I was not being a good 
Communist without at least giving the effort to take that jotj and see 
what I could do, so I consented ; and at that meeting we arranged who 
were to be the officers of the Young Progressives of America. 



678 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Ta^tknner. Did it work out according to your arrangements, 
that those decided upon at the Communist Party meeting to be officers 
of tlie YPA would be officers? 

Mr. Onduejka. Absolutely. Generally we would have 10 to 20 
people at a meeting, but when it came time for an election after we 
liad decided who were to be the officers, we would have people from 
the youth group who ordinarily didn't attend YPA meetings come to 
the meeting, and we would have an election and put in our people, and 
then you wouldn't see them again. 

Mr. TA^^;NNER. Did you say ]5eople from the youth group? 

Mr. Onduejka. Of the Communist Party. 

"Mr. Tavenner. That means, of course, they were members of the 
Communist Party? 

;Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\tjnner. In that way you controlled the elections in the 
Young Progressives of America ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Plus controlling the policy because we made it a 
point to have it. 

Preceding me was a girl by the name of Betty Gossell who was 
chairman of the Young Progressives of America from the time I was 
in the Young Progressives until such time as I replaced her, and she 
was also a member of the Young Communist Group. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain chairman of the Young 
Progressives of America? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Only for a short period of time, a few months, be- 
cause at that time with these duties that I told you, attending school 
full time and working full time, my dad became very sick and finally 
I went to them again and they let me out of the position as cochairman 
of the Young Progressives of America. I stayed in as a director of 
the Young Progressives of America, a position I previously held 
before becoming cochairman of the Young Progressives of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think before going further in your progress as a 
member of the Communist Party it may be well for us at this point 
to discuss the Young Progressives of America, that is, its activities. 

Will you tell the committee, please, what type of work the Young 
Progressives of America engaged in? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Well, at least from November of 1949, before that 
there may have been some doubt, but at the Young Progressives of 
America convention in Cleveland of that year it was decided that the 
nature of the Young Progressives itself was to be more of a social 
nature and that set up the basis for recruitment of people into the 
Young Progressives of America, which was as follows: 

For instance, we might have one person that would be antilabor, 
but he would be interested in the Negro as a class because of an im- 
pression of Negroes. Another might be anti-Negro but prolabor. It 
was decided at that time that we would take any person that would 
agree with us on one point into the Young Progressives of America 
and at that time try to develop him into a broader sphere so that some 
day he might be recruited into the Communist Party. 

As to actual activity, one was the distribution of leaflets under the 
banner of the Young Progressives of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. Before we come to that, do you know of instances 
in which the Communist Party did prove the accomplishment of the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 679 

plan that you are talking about by actually recruiting members into 
the Communist Party in addition to yourself ? 

Mr. Ondrejka, I did, sir. In addition to myself there was one 
other colored fellow that either joined the Young Progressives of 
America at the same time I did or the following week, who by the time 
I had gotten into the Young Communist Group was already a member 
of the Young Communist Group. That was his first contact, too, also 
through the Young Progressives of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. We heard here yesterday that Mr. Eggleston was 
recruited into the Communist Party through this same Young Progres- 
sives of America. 

Mr. Ondrejka. He was already a member of the Young Commu- 
nists when I became a member of the youth group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of a constant pressure from the 
Communist Party upon non-Communist members of the Young Pro- 
gressives of America to join the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. No; I wasn't sir, because my own observation of 
the situation was that about 85 percent possibly of the non-Commu- 
nist members of the YPA weren't even aware as to what was going 
on except for certain isolated cases. 

We will take the case of Harvey Silverstine, who was a young lad 
going to a Milwaukee school who wasn't old enough to get into the 
youth group of the Communist Party. He was probably 14 when he 
joined the Young Progressives of America. He was 15 when at a 
meeting his special problem was brought up, the fact that he was 
not 16 years of age, therefore not eligible for membership into the 
youth group of the party, but he was taken in anyway. 

Someone like that probably had a better understanding of what we 
were trying to accomplish because of the fact that his brother was a 
member and attended these same meetings; but as to the average 
person we would have them come for our socials. We would have a 
hayride and put on a skit, a play. The one I am referring to now is a 
h.ayride and some of the individuals from the Young Progressives put 
on a skit of Hitler and Mussolini in Hell and they were condemning 
each other for being responsible. We would have a lot of people 
because it would involve a social and skit. We had one at the lake- 
front but by and large the average individual didn't know what was 
going on there. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Will you proceed to tell the committee about the 
dissemination of leaflets you started to describe? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, sir. What we did have in the Young Pro- 
gressives of America was the Young Progressives of America news- 
paper known as Together. At that time when I was in the Young 
Progressives the case of a certain Lieutenant Gilbert was in the spot- 
light as far as the Young Progressives of America were concerned. 
Both in leaflets, in petitions, and in their newspaper we had attempted 
to put mass pressure on the Army in order to seek the release of 
Lieutenant Gilbert. By chance I have one copy of that magazine. 
It wasn't mine. 

Every leaflet or magazine I got I turned in to the FBI. This is 
one I ran across from October of 1950 which reads: "Protest, halt 
Army lynching. Used as example, Negro victim says." That is the 
type of thing we were distributing at that time in the fonn of a news- 

63790— 55— pt. 1 6 



680 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN TH]E MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

:paper or leaflet distribution. I remember distinctly one leaflet of 
several thousand copies peddled at the Seaman body plant. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what extent, if any, was the Communist Party 
responsible in the printing and circulation of this particvilar prop- 
aganda ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I do not know, sir, because I was not in the party 
iit that time. I do know that this magazine was mailed from New 
York to members of the Young Progressives of America. 

Mr. Willis. Are you addressing yourself to the particular leaflet? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Willis. Do you have some knowledge about other leaflets or 
inspiration for them? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Other leaflets that I would have knowledge of is that 
Betty Gossell, even before I was in the party, and she was a member 
of the party, would work on leaflets and she was the one that originated 
the leaflet. 

In the case of the Young Progressives of America it is well to 
remembar that the very directing force, such as Merle Snyder and 
Betty Gossell were party members. It wasn't the average Young 
Progressive that had anything to do with these leaflets. 

Another phase was securing of petitions on Sunday afternoons. In 
the summertime they would go to the State Fair Park and attempt 
to get peace petitions on the Stockholm pledge or petitions on the 
freeing of Lieutenant Gilbert ; or the big rage when I got into the 
Young Progressives or America Avere the Hollywood 10 — the 10 from 
Hollywood — producers and writers that were called before Congress 
in 1949. 

Mr, ScHERER. Called before this committee? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I didn't know whether it was this committee, but 
1 do know that one of the first Civil Rights Congxess open meetings 
that I attended dealt with that 10 — how they were being victimized 
by that committee, and I think they had 2 of the Hollywood 10. In 
that period of time, both from the standpoint of the Civil Rights 
Congress, tJie leaflets they would put out, their mailings, and from 
the Young Progressives of America itself, they were working on the 
case of the Hollywood 10. 

Yesterday I ran across the little film that we used in the Young 
Progressives of America. Now, this is done in caricature. It is not 
a sound film. It is only a film about that long [indicating] with 
individual pictures. This is tied with a recording and it shows a 
person known as Moneybags — a great big pot of gold with a hat on top. 
It shows these writers practicing their trade and making a living and 
Moneybags decides they are not making enough money for him, so he 
sees that they are called before a committee. 

They are called. Moneybags gets richer and richer, but is not 
satisfied and "I must have these people sentenced." They get out 
a roll of bills which is a copy of the Bill of Rights. Moneybags 
doesn't know what to do, so he ties them up and this train is coming 
and suddenly it is leaflets to Washington condemning their activities 
and how they are picking on innocent men and the rush is on to 
Washington.. 

You see the thousands of little pens running to Washington and 
because of all this pressure on Washington the}^ finally pull a switch 
and the Bill of Rights is saved. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 681 

JNIr. Doyle. Let the record show that the witness indicated that the 
fihn was about 3 feet long. 

Mr. Ondkejka. 1 think a little longer. That was shown at YPA 
meetings and meetings at the apartment. I remember five times that 
that thing Avas played. It was always good because it had a catchy 
tune and it Avent over big. 

Mr. Doyle. Who furnished that? 

Mr. Ondkejka. I don't know, sir. I believe it originated from the 
divil Rights Congress Avhen it first came in. I know that the Young 
Progi-essives of America used it and it had not been returned to the 
original owners. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you recall Avhether Howard Lawson appeared 
here or any of tlie other Hollywood 10 about the time that you are now 
speaking of? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I have a recollection that it was Lawson and Ring 
Lardner, Jr.. but I have a recollection that 1 was sick and we put in 
a substitute from Milwaukee, but I do know that at least 1 of the 
Hollywood 10 spoke here. It was a civil-rights meeting and they 
denounced the way the people in Hollywood were being persecuted. 

Mr. Doyle. Some of the Hollywood 10 went to jail? 

Mr. Tavexner. Yes; all of the Hollywood 10 went to jail for con- 
tempt of Congress. One of them, Mr. Dmytryk, while in jail, decided 
he would come before our committee and tell the committee the full 
facts, which he did. His testimony has been one of the most impor- 
tant iDits of testimony the committee has received and it led to a very 
full investigation covering the period of several years in Hollywood 
with outstanding results. 

I am inteiested to know the origin of that type of propaganda that 
was used in favor of the Hollywood 10. 

Mr. Ondrejka. Sir, as to who initiated the propaganda I do not 
know. I attended the open meeting of the Civil Rights Congress and 
most of the things I know about the Civil Rights Congress are on the 
basis of what was said at public meetings but I do know that at this 
meeting it was denounced, the fact that these were innocent victims 
and so forth and so on ; that 2:)ropaganda line. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what extent did the Communist Party either 
directly or through its influence utilize this type of propaganda ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Sir, I would have to say there that if it was util- 
ized by the Communist Party it would have to have been through the 
leadership of Josephine Nordstrand who was the executive director of 
the Wisconsin Civil Rights Congress, whom I know to be a Commu- 
nist ; and the Civil Rights Congress was her baby, and for years any- 
thing that ever emanated from the civil rights emanated under Joseph- 
ine Nordstrand who was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you think the Communist Party was the father of 
that baby ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I know in Josephine Nordstrand's case, and know- 
ing her and the type of work she put out, it is no question that it had 
to emanate from the Communist Party. 

For instance, I wrote a leaflet for her in too mild a tone. She 
crossed everything out and said not good enough, and she put every- 
thing out. and "we demand this," and so on and so forth. 



682 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. We are centering our attention principally at this 
point on the Young Progressives of America. 'NVliat other activities 
did they engage in while you were a member of it ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. The other activity was that at every meeting we had 
educationals. I was the educational director of that group and it 
w^as my job to go to the People's Book Store in the 800 block of Wis- 
consin Avenue and bring suitable literature to the YPA meeting. I 
distinctly rememb?r that at one of these educationals I had brought 
back copies of the Political Affairs magazine which is not an official 
publication, but a publication for all members of the Communist 
Party. The authors are known Connnunists. At that time I was 
new in the group. I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to bring 
that. I was told that it was not the thing to bring. I simply said this 
Mary Keith gave that to me to bring to the meeting. 

I would sell wliat literature I could sell. Wiat I did not sell I 
returned to the People's Book Store along with the money I received 
for selling. 

In addition we used to have a gimmick where we would raffle a book 
at maybe a nickel or 10 cents a chance so that we would ge rid of 1 
book a week. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Tavenner said he was interested in knowing 
where this film originated. It says on the film "Hollywood division of 
the Arts and Sciences Professional Council Press," which is a definite 
organiz-^d Communist orfranization, if I recall. Am I right? 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Yes, sir; that is correct. Our investigation of that 
organization has shoAvn tlie raising of huge sums of money. I am 
afraid to quote tlie amount because it was a staggering sum over a 
period of just a few years, a great part of which went into the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. 'Wliat was your compensation or divvy on the sale of 
this literature? 

]\Ir. Onprejka. Absolutely nothing on the sale of the books, sir. 
I was paid by the FBI while I was working for them. 

Mr. Doyle. Were you not paid anything by the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. For selling the books? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Ondrejka. No, sir; that was general practice in every group 
of the party I have ever been in or any front organization of any 
meetings that someone had to have literature from the People's Book 
Store, sell it and return it to the People's Book Store. There was no 
commissions, no compensation, no nothing. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Do you recall any other incident at this time in 
which members of the Young Progressives of America were involved 
which indicated the carrying on of a plan by the Communist Party 
or an objective of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, sir. A few years ago before this issue of the 
admission of Red China into the United Nations had developed to 
where it is now, at that time the word was in the party in party pam- 
phlets and evervthing else about the admission of Red China. 

The Young Progressives of America conducted a poll at the Allen- 
Bradley Co. They had a ballot box and put out a leaflet and on the 
bottom were 3 or 4 questions, but on the bottom was "Do you favor 
the admission of Red China into the United Nations." The purpose 
was to get the publicity. I should correct myself. They did not say 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 683 

"admission of Red China." That would never appear on any leaflet 
or anything else. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a Memorial Day incident in 1950? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I do, sir. It was either Memorial Day or May 
Day of 1950 when I was still in the Youth Group of the Communist 
Party. On that particular occasion in Wisconsin we have a town 
Fome'what 50 miles north of Portage, Wis., by the name of Mosinee. 
On that particular day the American Legion had taken over the town 
for a day to show the people or to demonstrate what life would be like 
under Communist rule. 

What they did is, they had a few of the big-time Communists in 
the thirties. I remember one was Benjamin Gitlow and he became 
commissar for a day. They roped off an area next to the church and 
put tlie people from the parish in there and I think locked up the 
mayor and so forth. It received a great deal of publicity in the papers 
throughout the country and the Communist Party decided we would 
have to counter that effort by the American Legion, so several of us 
within the group of the Communist Party had decided — or it was not 
a decision; we were told to go up there. I was one picked to go up 
there. We were to go to Mosinee, Wis., possibly 2 weeks after that. 
We were to take the Stockholm Peace Petition and get enough signa- 
tures to put in the Daily Worker and other publications, and it would 
prove how those people were fooled by the American Legion. It was 
nothing but a trick to fool the American Legion. 

Jerry Rose was in charge of this Youtli Group of the Communist 
Group of Milwaukee, so Jerry Rose, Betty Gossell, myself, and Lily 
Rody, who subsequently became my wife, were on our way up there 
in what is now my wife's car. On our way up an unfortunate occur- 
rence happened. The water pump blew up. We did not get to 
Mosinee. We were stopped. 

I do know that at the same time we were going to get petitions, a 
delegation from Madison, was also on the way to Mosinee to get peti- 
tions. They passed us on the highway. They had a car full of people, 
and, therefore, could not take us with them, so it happened that Betty 
Gossell and Jerry Rose hitchhiked to Madison, and. my wife and I 
waited for someone to tow the car. 

Mr. Doyle. What delegation was that? 

Mr. Ondrejka. The Madison delegation. I do not know wlio was 
in the car. All I know is that it was a car full of people who were on 
their way to Mosinee, and did go to Mosinee, and received some few 
hundred signatures. 

Mr. Doyle. Were they Communists, or what ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I don't know, sir. We went as a group of people, 
delegates from Milwaukee. Jerry Rose, being in charge of our dele- 
gation, could probably answer that, but I couldn't. 

I do know further, that in regard to this little episode on our way 
up to Portage before the car broke down, Jerry Rose had said when 
we do get up there don't say you are members of the Communist Party. 
Tell the people in Mosinee that you are representing a churcli group in 
Milwaukee and have an earnest desire for petitions. He gave us a 
minister's name to use if they asked. That was the procedure we were 
to use in getting these signatures. 



684 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. You understood from your discussions with Kose 
that there was a group from Madison engaged in tlie same mission in 
which you were engaged ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Not only from him, but I saw the car. They stopped 
and asked what had happened. They had no room for us. 

About 2 weeks later it appeared from the Daily Worker that a group 
from Madison had secured these petitions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Daily Worker use the very line of argu- 
ment and propaganda that was the purpose for the mission in the first 
place ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is right, sir; that because of the number of 
signatures they received it was shown that it was nothing but a fraud 
on the part of the American Legion ; that they had fooled the people 
up there for that occasion and our type of thing had disproved it. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that your first assignment while 
a member of the Youth Group of the Communist Party was to go 
back into the Young Progressives of America and becomes its co- 
chairman. '\'Vliat other assignments were you given by the Youth 
Group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I was also eclucational director of the Youth Group 
of the Communist Party, which again entailed preparing an educa- 
tional for the meeting and going to the People's Book Store and get- 
ting the a])propriate literature and returning the money and the 
unsold books. 

In addition, while members of the youth group we did have a 
number of leaflet distributions. The one I specifically remember, be- 
cause that is the time that I had a bit of trouble down there, was we 
were passing out a leaflet not under the banner of the Communist 
Party although the person in charge of this detail was Jerry Rose.. 
The two people that were to pass out the leaflets were Phyllis IBerger, 
the wife of Sid Berger, and myself. 

Jerry Eose picked me up at the apartment at about 6 o'clock that 
morning. We drove down to this particular plant in his car. If I re- 
member correctly he had said at that time he worked in the plant, that 
is why he would not have to pass out leaflets with us. 

I might mention here that I learned many other times that if you 
work at a definite plant and there is to be a leaflet distribution at that 
plant it is the duty of others in the party whether they be in factories 
or whether they be neighborhood groups or any other groups, it is then 
their responsibility to put leaflets into the plant. 

On this particular occasion we had a leaflet by some outfit for peace. 
I don't remember the name of it. It was not a leaflet of the Communist 
Party. The three involved for distribution were Communists, Jerry 
Rose, Phyllis Berger, and myself. 

The reason I remember it so well is that the workers in spite of the 
fact that this leaflet did not carry a party label let me know in no 
uncertain terms what the contents of the thing was. They crushed 
them, spit on them and threw a few at them. They said I was too 
lazy to work just like the rest of the Communists; if I came there 
again I woulct get the same treatment that Roy Webb got at another 
industrial plant, and so on. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the rank and file of the people in 
labor there recognized the line for what it was? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 685 

Mr. Ondrejka. In spite of the label, and told me in no uncertain 
terms what the line was. 

Mr. DoTLE. I would like to compliment that group of American 
workmen. 

Mr. Ondrejka. I would like to compliment them now, sir, but at the 
time when they said they were ^oino; to ride me out of town, I wasn't 
ready to compliment anyone. I mi<^ht mention here that it was the 
direct responsibility of the Youth Group of the Communist Party to 
put the Labor Youth League in an operating position, so by that means 
we could disolve the Youth Group of the Communist Party with all 
functions being taken over by the Labor Youth League. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your becoming a member of the Youth 
Group of the Communist Party, had you been a member of the Labor 
Youth League ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I was not, sir, because I was in the Communist 
Party before what I consider the formal opening of the Labor Youth 
League. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether any member of the Commu- 
nist Party was assigned the task of the organization of the Labor 
Youth League? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, I do, sir. That person's name is Mark Berman. 

It was in the latter part or probably middle December of 1949 in 
the Civil Rights Congress office that we had what I consider to be 
the formal Milwaukee Labor Youth League chapter. Mark Berman 
got up and spoke about the background of it. He had said that there 
were plans already, at a meeting in Chicago, in the summer of 1949 
to organize a Labor Youth League, but at this time we had what was 
the largest membership to attend a Labor Youth League meeting to my 
knowledge, of about 40 people, and at that time we formally set up 
a Labor Youth League in Milwaukee with Mark Berman as chairman ; 
but we made the provision that at every subsequent meeting we would 
have a temporary chairman for the day. 

We also went into what the purpose of the Labor Youth League was 
to be, and it was said at that time that tlie purpose of the Labor Youth 
League was to be a group devoted to the study of Marxism. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am very interested in your statement that it was 
looked forward to the time when the Youth Group of the Communist 
Party would be dissolved and its functions somewhat carried on by 
the Labor Youth League. 

Mr. Ondrejka. I think it would be more than somewhat carried on, 
sir. For clarification of that point, in April of 1950 at a meeting of 
a few of the Youth Group of the Communist Party, the ones I speci- 
cally remember being there because they are involved in the situation 
is Mark Berman, Lily Rody, who later became my wife, and myself. 
There were more but these three I can specifically remember. 

We met at the apartment of Ester Eisenscher. At that meeting 
Ester was not there. The State chairaian of the Communist Party 
of Wisconsin, Jack Kling, conducted this little survey of the situation 
and at that time he pointed out that we were not moving fast enough 
with the Labor Youth League ; that more work had to be done on it 
because once the Labor Youth League was on its feet at that time we 
would dissolve the Youth Group of the party; Mark Berman would 
be reassigned to the Seaman Body branch of the Communist Party, 
my wife would be reassigned — she was not my wife at that time— 



686 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

would be reassigned to the West Allis women's group, and so on and 
so forth. 

After the Youth Group was to be dissolved, all functions of the 
Youth Group were to be carried on by the Labor Youth League, and 
the manner in which it would be done is that although it was not a 
requisite for a member of the Labor Youth League to be a member 
of the Communist Party, except for possibly one on the executive 
board, we would make sure that the executive board was composed 
of Communist Party members. So, in effect, we were taking the 
youth activities out and putting them into the Labor Youth League 
and they Avould be coordinated through the Labor Youth League. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why did the Communist Party consider it was 
advisable to do away with its own Communist Party Youth Group 
and create a group known as the Labor Youth League to carry on 
practically the same functions? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I would say that possibly the primary reason for 
that was the fact that you had to get an organization that didn't 
have the name "Communist" in it. ITere we had a group devoted to 
the study of Marxism, but it was not a Communist name. 

Mr, Tavenner. In other words, they had found by that time that 
they could not sell communism to the American public under the 
Communist label? 

^Ir. Onurejiva. That is precisely correct, sir, and T think that holds 
true not only in the case of the Youth Group of the Communist Party, 
but I say any group or any member of the Communist Party in his 
various mass organizations where he may be workinsf, if that man 
were required to say "I am a Communist," he wouldn't be selling 
anything, either. 

Mv. Doyle. In what year was that, please? 

Mr. Ondrejka. This was in December of 1949 that the Labor 
Youth I>eague was founded. In April of 1950 was this meeting where 
the State cliairman of the party said "you have got to move faster 
and get the Labor Youth League happening." 

It so happened that we did not dissolve the Youth League at that 
time. 

Mr. DoYT.E. I think, Mr. Tavenner, I will make this observation and 
you coTTect me if I am in error. 

In other words, the famous Duclos letter came to this country in 
May or June 1945. Shortly thereafter, Earl Browder was kicked out 
as national chairman of the Communist Party as I recall it, so that 
this date tliat you have given us now, Mr. Ondrejka, is 31/2 to 4 years 
after the Duclos letter came to this country and after Earl Browder 
was kicked out as chairman of the Communist Party in America. Is 
that correct, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir ; that is correct. In other words the Com- 
munist Party embarked on a plan at this time in 1949 and 1950 to 
attempt to fool tlie youth of the country by labels ; that is, by the organ- 
ization of a group not publicly known to be Communists, but which 
was in fact a creature of the Communist Party. 

(At this point Mr. Scherer left the room.) 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, may we recess here for 3 or 4 minutes to 
give vour very able stenographic assistant 10 minutes to rest? 

(Wliereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 687 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will please reconvene. 

The record will set forth that all 3 members of the subcommittee 
are here. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ondrejka, you were telling the committee just 
before the recess of the activity of the Youth Group at this particular 
industrial plant. Will you proceed, please, and tell the committee of 
other activities of the Youth Group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. One of the main activities, and it not only concerned 
the Youth Group of the party, but it concerned the Youth Group and 
any other group I was in, plus all front organizations, and that was 
not the peddling but the securing of Stockholm peace petitions. It 
didn't matter what group you were in that was something that it 
had, the responsibility, getting signatures. Another responsibility 
that emanated through every group that I know about was the fact 
of leaflet distribution at industrial debates, and I bring tliat out 
because of the fact that it wasn't essential that you have a lot of people 
in one shop because once you had one Communist in a shop or a cell 
you could rely on assistance of the various other gi-oups. 

I had pointed out there that neither of us worked at this particular 
plant and yet we had to distribute leaflets there. In fact neither of 
us were working in an industrial plant at the time. 

I shouldn't forget to mention that in every group there was the 
raising of funds. Every year in Milwaukee they set up a quota and 
every club makes a pledge and every member makes i^ledges and the 
difference you attempt to get by having socials. That could be a 
meeting at anyone's home on a Saturday night and you have various 
devices of securing money. I might go through this. 

One of the socials we had at the time was that we had a social at the 
home of Alfred Hirsch, tlie second witness to testify yesterday after- 
noon. At that particular social we had a very nice turnout of possibly 
35 people. They were not all Communists. In fact we had our own 
group that I told you about from the Youth Group, plus a number 
of YPA group that were not Communists. 

At this social, as at any other social, there was always a portion 
set aside for the purposes of an educational. At this particular educa- 
tional we had a speaker from Chicago who was a union leader from 
Chicago who had attended the Warsaw Peace Conference which I 
think was held in August or September, sometime just preceding tliis 
meeting. That was in the latter part of 1949. AVliat he did was that 
after he attended AVarsaw Peace Conference he flew to Russia to 
investigate manufacturing conditions in Russia and he spent all of 
his time on one subject. That was the subject of auto production in 
the IT. S. S. R. Pie Avent through a long, long description of the 
beauties and the fineness of manufacturing conditions in the auto 
works in Russia at least at this particular plant. 

^ He had talked about the safety features unexcelled ; we had nothing 
like it in this country. I remember him talking about the fact that 
wlien a woman became pregnant she had a leave of absence, I think 
from her fourth month until 6 months after the child was born, with 
full pay. If the woman wanted to work after she had a child, they had 
nurseries and the woman received her full pay and didn't pay for that. 
They received vacations at resorts set aside for these people. 



688 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Sitting tliere the thing got pretty fantastic in my own mind, so what 
I did in my own naive way was pose the question to this gentleman 
from Chicago that was a main experiment, and I would have to give 
one reference. 

Before this meeting at that time I religiously read all the stutf they 
put out especially in the bookstore, and we had clippings from Mil- 
waukee papers that we considered favorable to the Communist Party 
bound in a volume, speaking of auto production in the Soviet Union. 
I think the figures for 1948 or 1949 were something like 90,000 units 
in a country of 200 million people. 

So what I said to him is this: I said "No doubt what you saw is 
true, because it would have to be true. You were there," But I 
said, "What bothers me is here in Milwaukee we have the Nash Co. 
that makes Nash cars," and I said, "It isn't that much of our entire 
automobile production in this country. Here as country of 200 million 
people produces about the same figure," I said, "if things are that good 
at the plant you saw why is it that there isn't production like that the 
country over that they would compare with us an automobile 
production?" 

Everybody's mouth dropped down that I was a fiend. Yet it was 
a naive question that they couldn't do anything about and he couldn't 
answer the question. 

That is one of the type of socials we held among them. 

Mr. Doyle. You stated that this man came from Chicago. Was he 
from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Sir, I do not know. I know that he was a union 
official in Chicago. I know his name but I do not know him to be 
a member of the Communist Party. That is why I do not mention 
his name. 

Mr. Doyle. That is correct. We do not want you to name anyone 
whom you cannot identify as a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have given that name to the staff of the com- 
mittee, have you not, for its own investigative purposes ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I have, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the attitude of the Communist Party 
toward you for asking this question which appears to have punctured 
the balloon that was being blown up and floated at this meeting? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I will say this, sir : That upon arriving home there 
is one member of the Communist Party whom I was very closely 
associated with that told me in no uncertain terms that I had no right 
to embarrass the speaker like I did, and I told her that it was just a 
■question that I was interested in and I want to know the answer. That 
was all. 

Mr. Doyle. Probably that question came to your mind in the way 
it did as the result of some of your studies at Marquette University? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I think it came directly as the result of the fact that 
I never was a Communist in any other sense than the fact that I was 
working for the FBI in the Communist Party ; and the main reason 
for my asking that question is that I was very much concerned to 
point out a lot of this hocum to one individual member of the Com- 
munist Party whom I was attempting to get as far away from the 
Communist Party as I possibly could. 

I might go on to say, sir, in that very same vein, about 2 months 
later the Civil Rights Congress also had a large meeting at the South 



COMMI^NIST ACTIVITIES IX THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 689 

Side Ai-moiy and at that time another hibor leader from the city of 
Milwaukee, who had been to Warsaw and had made a study of the 
conditions in Poland also, came back with a great study of how things 
were in the people's democracies — in the eastern democracies I should 
say — and he went on to explain that now people had things in Poland 
they never had before ; were adequately clothed, adequately fed, things 
were great. The thing I did at this particular meeting is that we 
were allowed to submit questions on a card. You did not have to 
sign your name. All you had to do was to write a question on a card 
and give it to the usher in the aisle who would give it to the man 
that chaired the meeting who happened to be one of the officers of the 
Peoples Progressive Party whom I will not mention because I do 
not know him to be a Communist. 

I am not Polish but Slovak, but 1 put on that card that I have rela- 
tives in Poland and every letter we receive they are begging for every- 
thing we are going to send over to them. "In view of the state- 
ment you made should we stop sending packages to them?" I 
showetl it to one particular member of the Communist Party and slid 
it up. They said the writing was poor, it would take a moment to 
decipher it. 

The man that was chairman of the CRC affair came back to the 
microphone and said I might have gotten the wrong interpretation 
but what he meant is they are adequately clothed, but it is of a coarser 
nature than ours. They are clothed, but it is not the same. If we 
wanted to send them the luxuries, go ahead and send them. 

That was his study of conditions in Poland. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, at this time 
who were associated with you in the work of the Youth Group of the 
■Communist Party and in giving us the names of those individuals tell 
lis the nature of their participation as far as you can recall? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Some of the main ones in the Youth Group of the 
Communist Party would probably be as follows: Jim Eggleston is 
now out. He was an FBI man. T had him listed as a member of the 
party. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Incidentally, while you were in the Communist 
Party did you know that Mr. Eggleston was working in the same 
capacity in which you were working? 

Mr. OxDREJKA. 1 did not, sir. In fact I was just telling Jim in 
the back room that it brings to mind at a particular meeting of the 
Youth Group of the Comnuniist Party Jim Eggleston was the one 
that initiated a charge against the rest of the workers. 

The party has always had a policy if you have a Negro person in 
the group you elevate him immediately. In his particular case he 
turned the tables by saying that thej^ were responsible for putting the 
burden of work on him. So at the subsequent meeting where Jim 
went there, the chairman of the State ])arty of Wisconsin criticized 
the rest of us because we were guilty of white chauvinism in promoting 
him. The reverse was true. If you didn't have a Negro at the meet- 
ing 5'ou had a lecture on white chauvinism because they weren't there. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are going a little too fast for me. Explain 
what you mean there. 

Mr. OxDREjKA. T will explain what I mean, sir, by this. I was at- 
tending a party class, a series of classes, and there were at that meeting 
If) people, but there was not a colored person there. We did have 



690 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

two in attendance. We had Jim Eggleston and Bert Major. At that 
particular meeting, for some reason neither of them came. 

We did not have a series of lectures that night because we had a 
class on white chauvinism, because it was the fault of the rest of us 
that they were not there. 

Now, on the other hand, the charge that Jim had made when we 
did get a colored person in, for instance, Jim — for instance; I am 
sorry, I do not want to use the name. 

For instance this young colored girl that was named cochairman 
of the YPA within a month, and I want to say this in fairness to her. 
She was only a young girl, possibly 15. She was mistress of cere- 
monies at a People's Progressive Party meeting. They had a list 
of what she was to do. She got muddled, which was no discredit to 
her, not being engaged in it at all, and the chairman helped her 
through. 

I want to mention that they want to elevate them immediately 
despite the fact that they are burdening these people, and Jim was 
right. You end up on the short end. You are going to have a class 
in chauvinism. 

Mr, SciiERER. And you and Jim were reporting to the FBI on each 
other ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. There is no question that I had reports on Jim. 
That is one of the main ones that I remember. 

]Mr. Ta\tgnner. When did you first discover that he had been work- 
ing in the same capacity in which you had been working? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I did not know it until I was working with your 
staff investigator here this weekend on information, and it was just 
a slip from your staff investigator that led me to believe that he 
couldn't be this calm about the situation like it seemed to me, and I 
suspected it. I didn't know it until now that he actually was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you were going through the names, 

Mr. Ondrejka. The next one I would like to name would be Victor 
and Bernice Edelstein, E-d-e-1-s-t-e-i-n, 

As to Victor Edelstein, he was active in the youth group of the 
party. He was active in the Eabor Youth league and infrequently at 
the YPA. I had mentioned the fact that many would come for the 
purposes of an election and that is all you would see of them. I know 
that he was organizing out at All is Chalmers Co. while a member of 
tlie party. I do not know of my own knowledge that he was a mem- 
ber of the Allis Chalmers cell although of my own knowledge I do 
know there is an Allis Chalmers cell. 

Bernice Edelstein was a private secretary. She worked in the Civil 
Rights Congress, She worked in the youth group of the party, and 
subsequently, she became the chairman of the West Allis cell of the 
Communist Party. 

The next one J would like to name is Mark Berman, B-e-r-m-a-n. 
Mark was in the youth group of the Communist Party. Mark gave 
the founding speech for the Labor Youth League, Mark, according 
to Jack Kling, who was the chairman of the party at this meeting in 
1950, was assigned to Seaman Body cell of the party. In addition, 
in approximately April of 1951, Berman was in charge of distribu- 
tion of a Communist paper for factories known as Unity. It is a small 
publication that, when followed, is composed of 4 pages. They have 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 691 

on there that it is distributed by the Wisconsin auto division of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat knowledge do you have of the use of this 
publication known as Unity ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. My first contact with Mark Berman and his use of 
the magazine known as Unity was this: In the spring of 1051, I was 
at the home of Jack Kling who was then the State chairman of the 
Communist Party of Wisconsin. We were up there, I tliink at that 
meeting for the purposes of holding a series of classes wliich we will 
get to later. We were in the living room. In the kitchen piled on 
top of the table was a stack of Unity magazines. 

The reason I remember that Mark was in charge, is at the very time 
I was there before our meeting started, Mark vras being read off by 
the chairman of the Communist Party of Wisconsin because of the 
fact that there were 2 errors in the context of the magazine itself. 
If I am not mistaken one error was a spelling error and the otlier error 
was they put a period and then started an ''and" with a capital "A," 
instead of having the small "a" with a comma; and Jack Kling told 
Mark Berman at that time that that type of error may be all right for 
some other publication, but he didn't expect Mark to make errors 
again. That was the statement he made at that time. 

The Unity magazine was piled on the table. Mark said he just 
got them from the printers. Subsequent to that time I remember 
being given a single copy of it not through any distribution service, 
but from somebody else who had that, and he told me when you get 
to the plant drop it so someone else will pick it up. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wlio were the publishers of that magazine. 

Mr. Ondrejka. I do not know. Mark referred to printers. It was 
done in Milwaukee, I assume, because Mark Berman was living in 
Milwaukee. 

Mr. SciiERER. Berman was one of the writers for the publication? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That I do not know, sir. I know that he was re- 
sponsible for the printing of it because he was read off because of these 
errors. 

Mr. Scherer. There is a very fine movement in this country known 
as Unity, a somewhat religious movement, and I would not want this 
pamphlet confused with that organization or that movement. 

Mr. Ondrejka. If they would look at page 2 of that pamphlet ac- 
cording to the one that was passed out at the All is Chalmers gates 
about 2 weeks ago they would find on page 2 "Wisconsin auto division 
of the Communist Party," or "Auto division of the Wisconsin Com- 
munist Party." There is no doubt as to who takes credit for that 
magazine. 

Mr. Doyle. I am glad the distinguished gentleman from Ohio, 
Mr. Scherer, brought that out because certainly this committee would 
not in any way want the thought to go out, inferentially, that this 
apparently Communist sheet entitled "Unity" had any connection 
with the organization as Mr. Scherer says, the religious or thought 
group that is nationwide, and also has the same designation of the 
paper known as Unity. Is that correct, Mr. Scherer? Is that the 
paper to which you referred ? 

Mr. Scherer. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. I hope there will be no confusion. 



692 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILV/AUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a pamphlet entitled "Unity," issued in 
1954. Will you examine it and state whether that is the magazine 
pamphlet of which you were speaking ; not necessarily the same issue,, 
but the same paper ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. To the best of my recollection, sir, the title is ex- 
actly the same, lenity. The ones I received subsequently in 1951,. 
the one that I dropped at the Allen-Bradley plant, the ones that I 
saw last week, were similar to this except at that time the onlv differ- 
ence may have been that it was a little shorter than this one is nowj 
but other than that the makeup would be the identical one that I saw 
in the home of the State chairman of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you look at page 2 in the bottom righthand 
corner and state whether or not it is shown there who the sponsor of 
the paper is ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, I cari, sir. It says "Published by Wisconsin 
auto section. Communist Party." 

Mr. Tavenner. I think it may be well, Mr. Chairman, to offer it as 
an exhibit. I do so offer it and ask that it be marked "Ondrejka Ex- 
hibit No. 1," for identification purposes only, and to be made a part 
of the committee files. 

Mr. Doyle. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether the same paper was distri- 
buted at any time in the form of mimeographed sheets instead of a 
printed sheet? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I do not, sir. The time that I saw it on the table 
I distinctly remember Mark referring to the printers, and I assume 
that it was not mimeographed. It was printed. 

Mr. Doyle. A few minutes ago you said it was piled on the kitchen 
table. Does that language by you indicate that there were several 
hundred copies? 

Mr, Ondrejka. That is right, sir. At that time they weren't 
folded. They were as the papers dropped out and there was a stack 
like that on the table. 

The next name I would like to bring up is that of Sidney Berger. 
Sidney Berger was also in the youth group of the party. He was in 
the Labor Youth League and in the Young Progressives of America, 
and in addition his outside work mainly consisted of these various 
peace moves in conjunction with his wife, Phyllis Berger. 

As to these peace moves, I know that Sid would travel the State 
contacting various ministers and priests, and what have you, in an 
attem]3t to get them to back some of these various peace moves that 
we had in Milwaukee. They had an office down on Plankinton Avenue 
at that time, and I distinctly remember that one of the reporters from 
the Milwaukee Journal had attempted to get information from what 
they described at that time was the young, pretty brunette who hap- 
pened to be Phyllis Waldman, and she refused to give them any in- 
formation whatsoever. 

I do remember that at a party meeting it was said that the results 
had been great, that Sid was accomplishing a great deal throughout 
the State to get these various groups behind his peace movement. I 
know he was in charge of the peace groups because at one time he 
asked me to work with him on this, but becal^se of the fact I was in 
school I did not, hut he approached me on this subject. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 693 

Mr. Tavexner. It is true, is it not, that his identity as a member of 
the Connniinist Party and the identitj^ of his mission as a Communist 
Party mission was not known to the ministers and priests with whom 
he conferred? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I will say this, sir : I can hardly see him going to any 
minister or priest and saying "I am a member of the Communist Party. 
I am backing this peace group. Will you give me a hand ?" I was not 
along Avith him so I could riot say what he said to them other than the 
fact that I heard him say the results were great. The other one that 
I mentioned is Phyllis Berger, who is the wife of Sidney Berger who 
came from Xew York. The first time I had ever heard her speak in 
Milvvaukee she spoke at a Young Progressives of America meeting as 
to the discrimination against Paul Robeson at Peekskill. That was 
the substance of her talk. 

Later I knew her to be active in the Youth Group of the party as 
well as the Labor Youth League and working with her husband 
in these various peace groups. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Was she married at that time to Sidney Berger? 

Mr. Ondrejka. To the best of my. recollection she married Sidney 
Berger in July of 1950, which means that when Sid probably came to 
Milwaukee she was not married. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you recall her maiden name? 

Mr. Oxdrejka. Phyllis Waldman was her maiden name. 

Another one I would like to name would be Merle Snyder. Merle 
Snyder is the man that recruited me into the Communist Party. I 
knew him to be very active in the Young Progressives of America. I 
distinctly i-emember that in 19i9 in November when we had decided to 
send a large delegation to the National YPA convention in Cleveland 
we only had about, I think it Avas some $30 in the treasury and we 
wanted to send some 20^ people. So anyway we did send a large dele- 
gation. 

The reason why we sent them is we had Merle Snyder make a $30Q 
loan. We told him we would repay them out of funds. We never 
did pay him. In addition he smashed his car on the way to Cleve- 
land, so for Merle it was one great financial loss. 

I might add that in October of 1950 this same man who borrowed 
the money and did not get it back, who ran his legs off, was ousted 
from the Communist Party, one of the grounds being that he was an 
FBI agent. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was not an FBI agent as far as you know? 

Mr. Ondrejka. As far as I know, he was not. At that time we 
held a partial meeting of the Youth Group of the Communist Party. 
The meeting was held at the home of Joseph Rody who is my wife's 
father. We were at this meeting. Mark Berman was tliere, Ted 
Silverstine, Betty Gossell, and myself. Those I am sure of. 

At that particular meeting Jack Kling, who was the State chair- 
man of the party, sat down with us, told us some of the things that 
they had against him including that charge of being an FBI man. 
He told us that simultaneous with our meeting at this particul"r home, 
the security board of the Communist Party was meeting with him to 
read him out of the party. 

Of course, another one I would have to mention would be Lil Pody, 
who subsequently became my wife. As to her, she was in Labor Youth 
League, the Civil Rights Congress, the Young Progressives of Amer- 



694 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

ica, the Youth Group, the West Allis Women's Group, plus many 
otlier front activities, plus the fact that she attended party leader- 
ship school in Chicago in 1950. 

Another one 1 would mention would be Herb Major, who was active 
in Labor Youth League, somewhat active in the YPA and also a 
member of the Youth Group in the party. 

Another one whom I would mention would be Ted Silverstine. Ted 
Silverstine was very active in the Young Progressives of America; 
he was in the Youth Group of the Communist Party. He was in the 
Labor Youth League and subsequently and at the time I left the 
party he was coordinator of youth activities of the party. 

I might mention now as long as I didn't bring it out before, that 
he is the person, who, after a Labor Youth League meeting at the 
People's Book Store, after it was moved on State Street, w^hen asked 
the question, what would he do if he was drafted, he said that he would 
go in if he were drafted but if he were sent to Korea and the situa- 
tion became that he could jump to the other side he w^ould jump sides 
while he was over there. That is a statement he made after a Labor 
Youth League meeting. I distinctly remember when I was giving 
educationals for the Young Progressives of America at one discus- 
sion I had insisted that when our forces were driven back in the 
Pusan area that the United States would have no choice but to drive 
the North Koreans back over the boundary and he criticized me for 
being pessimistic on the situation. That is Ted Silverstine. 

I might mention that in September of 1950 he was the party func- 
tionary that contacted members of the Youth Group of the party 
when tlie party was seriously thinking of going underground. I was 
then living in the apartment. That was slightly before Merle Snyder 
was expelled. 

I had lived adjoining Merle Snyder's apartment and he came at 
that time and said to me to give him reasons why I should remain in 
the pai'ty. I said I have none. Pie should decide for himself whether 
I should be in or out. He checked on my background, the fact that 
I was going to Catholic school, and at that time he gave me a choice 
of front organization of which he was to pick one, because he said 
before the party went underground every member was to pick a front 
organization. 

The front organizations that were given to me as a choice were 
these : One was the NAACP, which is the National Association for the 
Advancement of Colored People. Another was the Jewish Center, 
and I don't know what Jewish Center they are referring to. I know 
that these organizations I am mentioning are not Communist or Com- 
munist-front organizations. They are legitimate organizations that we 
were told to attempt to get into. 

Tlie third group of which I had a choice was the Methodist Youth 
Center, and lie knew me to be a Catholic although I will say right now 
and in front of everybody that I wasn't what you would call a prac- 
tical Catholic. 

In one breath he told me that I would have a choice of going into the 
Youth Group of the Methodist Church on 10th and Wisconsin Avenue 
which I will say is not a Youth Group in any way, shape or manner; 
and at the same time he said I could consider Cardijn Center. I told 
him I wanted to join the Democratic Party. [Laughter.] 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 695 

I did not say that because tlie Democratic Party was in any way, 
shape, or manner a Communist-front organization and I would say 
after this was over and I had a free choice of joining parties, I did 
join the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were given a choice as to what organization 
yoii could get into. What was the purpose of the Communist Party 
in asking you to try to get into one of these organizations, some of 
which were religious 'i 

Mr. Ondrejka. Xot only at that time when they were considering 
going underground, but several years later the same situation became 
known again and the purpose of going into an organization as out- 
lined to me was tliis. For instance, were I to go into the Cardijn Cen- 
ter, which is the Catholic center, they have discussions about peace. 
In a group like that you know that the people are interested in peace 
which is good and which is the American way. 

Our purpose in going into the organization would be to rally these 
peace forces and attempt to get them to back the Stockholm peace 
pledge. That is the type of infiltration which would take place even 
with one single member like myself going into the Cardijn Center. 

There is another type of infiltration. I can give you an example of 
how the party did use a perfectly legitimate, respectable group for 
their own purposes. What I have in mind is this : In 1952 the chairman 
of the West Allis cell of the Communist Party asked me to be mod- 
erator of a cost-of-living committee. 

The West Allis cell was a group of 4 people known either as the 
West Allis cell or the West Allis Women's group. What they did was 
this : There were not necessarily in this particular cell, but there were 
4 Communist women that came up to our home in the afternoon and 
they had gotten the leader of one of the women's group on the east 
or north side of Milwaukee to front for this cost-of-living committee 
hearing. This lady had secured one of the aldermen of the city of 
Milwaukee, a member of the mayor's commission on human rights, 
and one of the ministers in Milwaukee to speak at this meeting, and 
I might say that because of the nature of who asked them it was 
again a perfectly legitimate reason to come and speak at this meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this a plan originated by the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. It was a plan originated by the Communist Party. 

That afternoon in my home they made remarks like this about the 
poor innocent lady they used, "We can't push her any further because 
the old so-and-so is starting to get wise." So it was time to hold 
the meeting without pushing her further. 

The Communist leader and myself decided that afternoon that we 
would have written questions so they would not have to stand up and 
identify themselves. They would write questions in regard that 
the cost of living is a direct responsibility of this heavy armament on 
the part of the Government. 

Mr. Tavenner. "When was this meeting being held ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. This meeting was held, I believe, in approximately 
April or May of 1952. 

Mr. Tavenner. At that period, then, it was the Communist Party 
line to try to reduce the defense preparations of this country? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Exactly. 

63796—55 — pt. 1 7 



696 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. By one means or another ? 

Mr. OxDREJKA. And that was the purpose of this meeting. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that the purpose of their peace propaganda 
activity ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. As you pointed out the one group that you talked 
to, namely the Catholic group, was sincerely interested in peace? 

Mr. Ondrejka. You would go in there and push peace, that is right. 

Mr. Scherer. The Communists were interested merely in the peace 
propaganda because it weakened this country's efforts against Russia 
or against the Chinese Communists ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Absolutely, and I think when we get to these party 
classes I will give an example of where the State chairman of the 
party said so in front of the members, that that was the effect. 

Mr. Tavenner. These i)ointed questions that raised the Communist 
Party line, you say were to be in writing ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is right. We would not take any oral ques- 
tions. Th^ were to be in writing and I, by reading the questions, 
would know which ones to pick out and give to the speakers. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You were to be the moderator ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it correct to say that one purpose in putting these 
questions in writing was so that the identity of the person raising the 
question, the member of the Communist Party, could not be discovered 
in that group ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir, and that is exactly the way we 
did it. 

Mr. Willis. And also to control the type of discussion ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. The type of questions that would go in if there were 
too many ; you would pick the ones you wanted to submit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Under those circumstances it would be impossible 
for a person in attendance who had no actual knowledge of what had 
been planned to come to the conclusion that it was a Communist- 
manipulated meeting? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Scherer. Nor would it have been possible for the speaker to 
get an embarrassing question under that setup. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, as late as April 1952 in this city of 
Milwaukee, there was a definitely conceived plan by the Communist 
Party in Milwaukee with the backing of the State Communist chair- 
man of the State of Wisconsin which was designed to weaken the na- 
tional defense of the United States of America, militarily speaking? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir, except that I do not know if 
the plan emanated from the State chairman. I received my instruc- 
tions from the chairman of the West Allis Women's cell. 

I would like to mention that except on particular occasions where 
I had the occasion to be at a party class my instructions were always 
from the man right on top of you. There is no such thing that you all 
sit in a group and it is a big democratic procedure where you answer 
back and forth. The information comes downward; not the other 
way. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me get this clear, Mr. Tavenner, also. In no way 
that you learned certainly, or I assume in no way did this prominent 
woman whoever she was, and I do not want you to name her unless 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 697 

she is known to be a member of the Communist Party, which I assume 
she is not, and in no way did the city alderman of the city of Mil- 
waukee know that they were being sucked into this affair ? 

Mr. Ondkejka. That is absolutely right. No one would have 
known. That is how I mentioned the fact of how a group of four 
could influence a whole meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere was this discussion group or panel discussion 
held? 

Mr. Ondrejka. It was held, sir, at the West Side Turner Hall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it take the procedure that you outlined ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. It did, sir, except for certain things. We had ex- 
pected a far larger audience and some of the things went wrong in- 
cluding myself as moderator, that I didn't keep the best control of the 
thing ; but the meeting was held. 

Mr, Doyle. About how many were present ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I would say about 40, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us return to the question we were discussing. 

Mr. Ondrejka. The only other name that I would mention would 
be Harvey Silverstine because I just mentioned him a few minutes 
ago. He is the brother of Ted Silverstine. He is the one that was 
under age, but in spite of it we took him into the party before he was 
16 years old. He was also active in the Labor Youth League and in 
YPA, 

I know there were some that left right after that, but that concludes 
the names, 

Mr, Tavenner, In the course of your testimony you mentioned a 
person by the name of Victor Edelstein, Do you know where he is 
now? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, I do, Victor Edelstein and his wife, Bernice 
Edelstein are now living in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. So they are not employed and have not been em- 
ployed for some time at Allis-Chalmers ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. If I am not mistaken the last 
week that Victor Edelstein worked at Allis-Chalmers was the last 
week in September of 1954. 

Mr. Tavenner, Let me go into one other question at this point. Do 
you recall any special work of the Communist Party in this area in 
nationality groups ? 

Mr. Ondrejka, Yes, I do, sir, except that that would be in the 
nature of hearsay. I know for a fact that there was a nationality 
group of the Communist Party here in Milw\aukee which met in West 
Allis which is a suburb out here, I know some of the members of that 
group, but I only know them through hearsay and therefore I cannot 
mention them, 

Mr. DoYLE. I want to emphasize the fact that a congressional com- 
mittee does not rest on hearsay ; that we deliberately make an effort to 
protect any person's reputation, I want to compliment the witness 
for not relymg on hearsay, I mention that among other reasons 
because I know there are several distinguished members of the IMil- 
waukee bar present again this morning. We are glad they are here, 
I had the pleasure of speaking last night to a gi'oup of stulents at 
the great Marquette University, law students, and I was asked about 
hearsay and whether or not we relied on it ; and I want to call attention 



698 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

to the fact that we did not rely on it, we did not invite it, we do not 
want it. 

Mr. Ondrejka. Mr. Tavenner, if I may in addition to speaking 
purely of Communists having a group in a nationalities group, I 
would like to refer once more to a different type of situation where 
again we have infiltration of a nationalities group. 

One of the people — I don't remember if I named them in the youth 
group of a party or not — but I knew him as Michael. His name was 
Michael Vaquer, who was a Puerto Rican. 

Mr, Tavenner. Was he a member of the youth group ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Youth group of the Communist Party. It was his 
activity to organize a social club of the Puerto Ricans who had been 
coming to Milwaukee at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by a social club ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. A group composed of these people in an effort to 
band them together because of the fact that they were somewhat lost 
coming from various sections into Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not a social group of the Milwaukee Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ondrejka. No. At their founding they had a dinner which 
would be a fund-raising organization for them. We in the Communist 
Party were instructed that we had to attend this Puerto Rican banquet. 
1 remember myself, my wife, and Agnes Slater were there. At this 
particular meeting we had a speaker from the People's Progressive 
Party who spoke on the situation in the particular Milwaukee foundry 
and how these Puerto Ricans were being exploited because of the fact 
that time after time he had refused in violation of the National Labor 
Relations Board to have a union in his plant. 

He spoke in English, this particular speaker. Michael Vaquer in- 
terpreted in Spanish for the benefit of this Puerto Rican audience. 
We were supposed to make contact with these j^eople in an effort to 
bring them into our front groups, particularly the Labor Youth 
League, which is exactly wliat happened and subsequent to that time 
we did have a fairly large group of these Puerto Rican peoples that 
attended our Labor Youth League meetings and I distinctly remem- 
ber that at one of our Labor Youth League educationals we had a girl 
who was going across the country giving speeches at tlie various Labor 
Youth League meetings. I do not know her name, but she spoke on 
the germ warfare charges in China and at that particular meeting 
again because of the large nun^ber of Puerto Rican people, Michael 
"^^quer was to interpret for them. That is how we got people from 
this particular nationality group. 

Mr. D0T1.E. We will recess for another 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will please reconvene. 

Let the record sliow that all 3 members of the subcommittee are 
again present. 

I want to take this occasion to again thank the photographic staff 
of the Milwaukee papers for their cooperating in not taking pictures 
of the witnesses during the time they are testifying. That is one of 
our regulations that we always ask to have observed, and the Mil- 
waukee papers are certainly very cooperative and we appreciate it. 

We in Congress believe })retty fully in tlie freedom of the press and 
we hope that it is not considered as an interference with the freedom 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 699 

when we continue to ask cooperation which they have so graciously 
given. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tan-ennek. Mr. Ondrejka, you mentioned in several places in 
your testimony the work that you have done in the Civil Rights Con- 
gress organization. What connection was there between the Commu- 
nist Party and the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. Ondrejka, Sir, my activity in the Civil Rights Congress was 
very limited except for the purposes of attending their meetings. In 
other words, on almost every issue that came up we referred to Holly- 
wood 10. Yesterday we referred to Harold Cristoiiel. 

The Civil Rights Congress held a m.eeting at the Wisconsin Hotel 
where Harold Cristofl'el was the main speaker. At that time they 
pointed him out as being the first martyr under these congressional 
investigations and he was the first labor leader that had been mar- 
tyred by them. 

At other times, including up to 2 weeks ago, they continually, week 
in and out, sent out literature under the banner of the Civil Rights 
Congress which usually would have inside a space for petitions and 
various things that they were interested in. Some of the most im- 
portant types of thing they were interested in at that time, of course, 
was the matter of the Martinsville 7 that was referred to, the Trenton 
6, the case of Willie McGee, the case of this Lieutenant Gilbert; and 
these leaflets were the type of thing they would be sending on their 
mailing list, and also at the various ali'airs they had. 

They would have meetings and, of course, every meeting of any type 
was also a fund-raising meeting and not to take any of your time, but 
iust to mention how they raise funds at these meetings including the 
Civil Rights Congress meetings was this: The person that was in 
charge of procuring money would be on the stage and would ask for 
pledges for various groups, a nationality group or a group of youn^ 
people concerned, and you would make a pledge of maybe $25 and it 
would work down until there were $5. Then they would ask for all 
$5 pledges in cash. After they got through with the $5 pledges every- 
body was to hold up a dollar bill. That holds true for all communist 
open meetings we held. After they were through with that they would 
saj keep enough money for streetcar fare and they would come around 
for your change. That is the type of system they would use for rais- 
ing funds at these various functions. 

I might say in Civil Rights Congress work, as I mentioned before, 
that anything I had to do with Civil Rights Congress, I went through 
Josephine Nordstrand. 

I mentioned this Mosinee meeting. Following that meeting Jo- 
sephine called me to her office and asked me to prepare a leaflet on the 
Mosinee situation. Like I said, I wrote one and by the time she got 
through penciling the thing it was hers, not mine, because she did not 
like the mild-mannered wording. 

Yesterday, one of the gentleman on the bench questioned whether 
they were concerned with the truth or falsity of any charges when they 
prepared these propaganda leaflets and so forth. 

I distinctly remember in the summer of 1950 where the Milwaukee 
Sentinel was conducting a series of articles on vice among youth in 
the sixth ward, including both whites and colored peoples. Now, 
many of the people involved were members of our Young Progressives 



700 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

of America. What had happened is they would tell their folks they 
were going to a YPA meeting and would go somewhere else and have a 
gay old time and go home and say they were at a YPA meeting. 

On this particular occasion I was walking down the street from the 
apartment where I lived, and Betty Gossell and Ted Silverstine picked 
me up and said we had to prepare a press release to the Milwaukee 
Sentinel condemning them for their articles. We went up to the Civil 
Ivights Congress and simultaneously I prepared one for the Young 
Progressives of America. 

I distinctly remember it because I started out by blasting the 
Sentinel for using sensationalism instead of journalism. That is the 
way I started mine. 

Josephine Nordstrand thought it was nice. She wrote hers and we 
sealed them in envelopes and gave them to Silverstine to mail, and she 
turned to Silverstine and said, "How about that ? Is there any truth 
to the stuff?" Without knowledge she typed out a statement to the 
paper. They were not concerned with the truth or falsity nor was 
the party concerned with the truth or falsity. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You referred to printed pamphlets, circulars, and 
bulletins from the Labor Youth League and the YPA and also from 
the Civil Rights Congress. Where were these various publications 
printed ? 

Mr. OisTDREjKA. The magazine I have given you from the Young 
Progressives of America was printed in New York. In addition to 
that the Young Progressives of America often put out leaflets or mad& 
their own petitions up which was done from labor from the YPA 
itself, and we provided our own paper ; but what the Young Progres- 
sives of America did was to use the mimeograph machine that was in 
the People's Progressive Party quarters where we held most of our 
meetings. 

In the case of the Labor Youth League, when we wanted to mime- 
ograph something for the Labor Youth League we used the mimeo- 
graph of the Civil Rights Congress. In other words, neither youth 
group ever owned a mimeograph machine of their own. The 'YPA 
used the PPP's and the Labor Youth League used the Civil Rights 
Congress'. Of course, the Labor Youth League have a bi-monthly 
magazine known as the Challenge which later became known as 
the New Challenge. It was the duty of the Milwaukee chapter of the 
Labor Youth League to take a bundle, and I think the next bundle 
we received at that time was 100 copies and we were to sell those. On 
Sunday afternoons volunteers would go from house to house attempt- 
ing to sell this magazine to the people. 

In addition to tliat there were 1 or 2 leaflets under the title of 
the Challenge. I could not remember the content of the thing but I 
distinctly remember that those we did not charge for. 

On one particular night my wife and I covered a 10-block area 
peddling them to every house in the area. That was one of the types 
of activity. That was the only printed one from the Labor Youth 
League which was the Challenge and later they came out with a new 
edition known as the New Challenge. 

As to the Civil Rights Congress or the Peoples Progressive Party, 
we received that through the years through the mail and it was always 
in mimeographed form. 



COMlVrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 701 

Mr, Doyle. Tell us how many copies you sold in the 10-block area ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. It is a leaflet printed in New York with the Chal- 
lenge across which we distributed for nothing. It was from National 
Avenue to the viaduct and about 10 blocks the other way. 

Mr. Doyle. What was the price of the pamphlet if it had a price 
to it? 

Mr. Ondrejka. If I am not mistaken, sir, the price of that pam- 
phlet was 10 cents. I distinctly remember that while we were paying 
and forced to pay for them, out of those hundred there were about 
80 left unsold every 2 weeks. Subsequently we got the bundle sold 
and I think it was cut to 80 copies, but we still never sold those. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the membership of these various groups 
change as time went on ? Was there a turnover in membership ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, I would say that except for the old hard core 
Youth Group Party members in these groups, there was a terrific turn- 
over especially in the Young Progressives of America. You would 
have people coming in, maybe go to a social or 1 or 2 meetings, and 
that would be the end. You would not see them. 

In the case of the Labor Youth League it was slightly more con- 
stant. That is because some of the people in there from the Youth 
Group of the party attended tlie meetings because it was a requirement 
that every member of Youth in the Communist Party had an obliga- 
tion to attend these Youth Group meetings ; I mean the Labor Youth 
League meetings, and in addition we had Communist speakers speak 
at the Labor Youth League meetings which we never would have done 
intheYPA. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee a fair idea of the mem- 
bership of these various groups at the time that you were active in 
the Commmunist Party ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. In 1949 I think our mailing list of the YPA, and 
those are people that had been at a meeting or two and we got their 
names, probably comprised as many as 150 people. As I recall the 
largest YPA meeting of people at a definite meeting would have been 
around 35 or 40 people. 

As to the Labor Youth League the first meeting, the founding meet- 
ing where Mark Berman spoke, we had approximately 40 and never 
came close to that figure. 

I might add in the waning years in 1952 we attempted time after 
time to reactivate these groups and our membership held a constant 
13 to 15 people, something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any means of acquiring knowledge 
as to the Communist Party membership in the Milwaukee area? 

Mr. Ondrejka. No, sir: I did not. The only way I could say that 
I had a knowledge, a general knowledge, was this : In addition to all 
these groups that we have mentioned this morning what the Com- 
nmnist Party had is what they called open meetings of the Communist 
Party which were open both to public and to the Communist Party. 
What I recall now is the first such meeting I ever attended was in one 
of the small halls of the Milwaukee Auditorium, I think around Lin- 
coln's Birthday. 

This particular meeting was a meeting open to the public and the 
party membership. Elizabeth Gurley Flynn was the main speaker 
and Bill Herron the second speaker. The May Day meeting was open 
to all groups. 



702 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

111 addition to this type of meeting they had what was known as a 
Communist Party meeting by invitation only. The reason why I 
bring this up is this : That not even every Communist was invited to 
attend these meetings at least if you were new, because I joined the 
Communist Party in November of 1949 but it was not until around 
June of 1950 that I started to receive invitations to attend these closed 
party meetings that were by invitation only; and I know for a fact 
that there were other meetings being held prior to that time. 

It was at these meetings that I could make some estimate of the 
active membership of the Communist Party. For instance, what I re- 
call to be the largest membership I saw at a meeting was when Fred 
Blair, the vice chairman of the Communist Party of the State of 
"Wisconsin, gave a report on the Korean war. At that meeting there 
were possibly 120 people in attendance. 

It was at that meeting that Fred Blair said that the war of the 
North Koreans is a war of the working peoples the world over. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that the meeting attended only by persons who 
had received these written invitations ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Invitations only. Other than that I wouldn't know 
just how to gage the membership of the Communist Party. I only 
know those groups that I was in. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. How many separate groups of the Communist 
Party were you aware of in the city of Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. In 1951 after the party did go underground in the 
latter part of 1951 I know of a Seaman Body group. I know of an 
Allis Chalmers group. I know of the West Allis Women's group. I 
know of a nationality group. I know of a Waukesha branch which 
would include the suburbs outside of West Allis and I know of a South 
Side group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of Communist Party 
organizations throughout the State of Wisconsin other than Mil- 
waukee ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I did not, sir. The only thing is that I know that 
there are otlier groups within the State because it was at the secret 
meeting in June of 1951 in the city of Chicago where Gil Green, who 
was one of the original 11 sentenced — it was a week before he was to 
go to prison. He was on bail and because of that, consequently, he 
could not come into Wisconsin to speak, so a group of party function- 
aries were invited to go to Chicago to hear Gil Green because of the 
fact that he could not come to Wisconsin. That group contained 
people from the entire State. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have not asked you any question up to the present 
time as to whether or not you received any special training in the Com- 
munist Party. I would like to ask you whether you did. 

Mr. Ondrejka. I received training. I do not know if that falls 
under the category of special training. What I had done is attended 
a series of 12 classes at one time and a year later I had attended an- 
other series of classes on another phase of political economy. 

Mr. Tavenner. Begin at tlie beginning and tell us what your expe- 
rience was in those training classes. 

Mr. Ondrejka. In December or approximately December of 1949 — 
it may have been November, but I think it was December — we held 
a series of classes at Jefferson Hall which is on Fond du Lac Avenue. 
At that time the person who started teaching these courses was the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 703 

man by the name of Andrew Reams who was the State chairman of 
the State of Wisconsin at that time. We met at Jefferson Hall. We 
paid, I think, a $2 fee for the initial 6 week course. That was to cover 
the book Political Economy, by Eaton which was to be the standard 
textbook. In addition there would be outside assignments given. 

As I recall it, I would say that there was approximately between 15 
and 20 people because I am basing it now on that one meeting where 
we didn't have a colored person. We had 16 on that particular day. 
We had about between 15 and 20 people in attendance. This was a 
course which I would say was more or less based on economics. The 
only way the party used such a type of thing is you would be talking 
about surplus value in your study of economics and, of course, the 
instructor would show how in the United States a certain thing goes to 
the greedy rich where in the Soviet Union it goes the other way. In 
that respect you had the propaganda, but basically it was a course in 
economics as distinguished from the one that I will relate a year later. 

The first 4 sessions, I think, of this class were taught by Andrew 
Reams who was the State chairman of the party. At the time Andrew 
Reams left the State of Wisconsin. I do not know if Jack Kling 
replaced him immediately, but I do know that one of the other courses 
Murray Wolfson taught. At another one of these weekly lectures 
Fred Blair, the vice chairman of the Communist Party of the State of 
Wisconsin, also taught. That was the last session of the original six. 

At that session he pointed out that because we had to pay rent for 
this room we would hold our meetings in a private home, and he also 
announced the fact that I, meaning myself, was to take over the sec- 
ond series of six and do the lecturing. 

It so happened that the place that these classes were to be held was 
at the residence of Sigmund and Grace Eisenscher, which is the address 
on Vliet Street. 

The first meeting tl^at I was supposed to lecture we could not get 
enough people to come! to hear somebody who was not an old lecturer. 
We had about five people. The reason I remember distinctly is that 
we did not have a formal lecture. We had a session, though. Sig 
Eisenscher was not attending the course. We were talking about 
money because Sigmund Eisenscher told Elizabeth Blair that under a 
system of pure communism there would be no need for money. She 
could not understand and he explained to her. He used two examples 
that night. One was the loaf of bread, the other shoes. I said, all 
right, if you went to a store and got what 3^ou wanted, why wouldn't 
you go to a store and take a hundred pair of shoes because you liked 
shoes ? 

At that time Sig said that if anybody did that under pure com- 
munism that they would be taken to the crazy house because there 
would be so much for everybody that they wouldn't have to do that; 
that when you wore out one pair you would get another. Tlie question 
was posed, "When was this coming?" but he said he didn't know; that 
is the way it would be some day. 

We did not have a class that night. The remainder of this series of 
courses was taught by a student instructor at the University of Wis- 
consin who was Murray Wolfson. This course did not conclude until 
sometime in March of 1950. 

Now. if I may go into the second series. 



704 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

The second series of classes started in March or April of 1951. This 
set of classes was to a much smaller class and it was taught by the 
then State chairman of the Communist Party of Wisconsin, Jack 
Kling, and this was more in the nature of a political course rather 
than economics. It was divided into eras. The pre-World War era ; 
the era of colonialism ; the era of World War II ; the post- World War 
era. It was divided, I think, into two sections. The first two were 
held at the home of Jack Kling and the remainder at the home of 
Sigmund and Grace Eisenscher, who at that time had moved on the 
east side of town. 

As to the nature of the type of courses that they were teaching, at 
every class one of the people in attendance was required to give an 
outside report. The one I have distinctly in mind is Elizabeth Blair, 
the ex-wife of the vice chairman of the State Communist Party, Fred 
Blair, who gave a report on peace and the Stockholm peace pledge 
and related it to peace in Korea. 

It was at the end of that lecture that the State chairman of the 
Communist Party of Wisconsin said to her, "Do you honestly believe 
that we can have such a thing as peace" 

She said, "Of course, that is why we are running around peddling 
the peace pledge." 

He pointed out that as Communists we cannot accept a document of 
that. He quoted, and I do not remember the book. It is a 1927 edi- 
tion of somebody's report. Anyway, related to our present circum- 
stances, we could have a little bit of peace in Korea, a little bit in 
Indochina, but we have to get it in our minds that there was an in- 
evitability of conflict between the capitalist and Socialist powers, and 
that was Communist theory and unless we accepted that at that meet- 
ing we were not good Communists. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you mean military conflict ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. He mentioned that because of the decadence of the 
capitalist system, it would inevitably have to end in military conflict. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand then that he indicated by what he said, 
or you took it from what he said, that he felt that the conflict in Ko- 
rea where the North Koreans were coming down to South Korea, and 
the conflict in Indochina were part of that conflict? 

Mr. Ondrejka. No, I believe that he thought we could have peace 
in Korea, a spot there, or somewhere else, but eventually we had to 
make up our minds that this conflict was inevitable and because of the 
theories expounded, that some day the capitalistic system would come 
to such decay that they would have to fight. 

He mentioned at that same meeting already what has happened, 
that France is no longer a capitalistic country but is now a parasite 
that gets what the United States wants to throw in their direction ; 
that eventually the United States would represent the forces of capi- 
talism and the Soviet Union and Eastern democracies would repre- 
sent the forces of socialism. 

Mr. SciiERER. He said that in what year ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That was in April of 1951, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there classes on any other level in the Com- 
munist Party besides those which you have described ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes, there were, except that the one I have particu- 
lar reference to I did not attend ; but in 1950 I know for a fact that 
they sent at least one person from Milwaukee to a party leadership 



COMJVrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 705 

school ill Chicago for a 1-week chxss. She was there the entire week. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position in the Communist Party here did 
that person hold ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That person did not hold a position, not because 
of the fact that she was not a trusted member. She has been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party or has worked for them from the time 
she was 10 years old until the present time and is now 29. She comes 
from a family of open Communists. I was told by the South Side 
division leader of the Communist Party, who was Jerry Kose, that 
it was my duty to attempt to teach her more theory and see if I 
couldn't spark her up to become more aggressive for a leadei-sliip 
role. At the same time nothing was denied her when she was put on 
a different type of basis. 

They agreed through the district organizer, Mort Altman, to have 
a courier go from the district office to her for anything she wanted 
to know. 

Mr. Doyle. Was that Mr. Altman, the witness that was here yes- 
terday ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is Mr. Mortimer Altman, the witness here 
yesterday. 

Mr. DoTLE. Is he the man whose wife owned the rug shop and he 
worked for her ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. Before I go further, Mr. Taven- 
ner, I might want to mention that Mortimer Altman was one of the 
people that attended the second series of classes taught by Jack Kling 
and held in the homes of Jack Kling and Sig Eisenscher. I might 
mention the others. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think you should. 

Mr. Ondrejka. The one I mentioned was Mortimer Altman. I just 
alluded to Elizabeth Blair, the ex-wife of the chairman of the State. 

The other party that was there that attended these classes was Grace 
Eisenscher, the wife of Sigmund Eisenscher. 

The other person that attended these classes was John Killian. The 
other member that attended this series of 7 or 8 classes was Gloria 
Killian, the wife of John Killian 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe the name of Mr. Killian was mentioned 
yesterday as Jack Killian ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I believe I know him more as Jack than John. If 
I mention John Killian it might be the same person I refer to as Jack 
Killian at some other time. 

I might also add in that regard that during the course of these in- 
structions every person had a chance to make one report. That is 
every week a different person was assigned a report to make. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Do you recall each of those individuals making re- 
ports ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I do not, sir. I do remember the fact that Elizabeth 
Blair made hers on Korea. I remember that I had a report to make 
and I remember that the week before I made mine John Killian made 
his. I do not remember Gloria Killian or Grace Eisenscher, and I 
might add there was one other lady that did attend these courses. I 
do not know her name. 

I might also say that Sigmund Eisenscher was aware of the fact 
that we were holding these classes in his home because I remember 



706 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

him coming in from work and he would stop and say something, but he 
did not sit in on the classes. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was this second group of classes ? 

Mr. Ondrejna. That was this second series held in the early part 
of 1951. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you be more specific as to the date? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I would say, sir, that those classes were held maybe 
in March, April, and May of 1951. 

Mr. Tavtenner. Do I understand that this other person that you 
mentioned, whom you did not identify, you knew her name and later 
forgot it; or is it a case where you never learned her name? 

Mr. Ondrejka. No, sir ; it is not a case where I never learned her 
name. I heard her name mentioned there. I know that she originated 
from Russia because they were talking about when she came over. I 
did not know her name. If it was mentioned then, by this time I forgot 
because it isn't a case where it is like Sigmund and Grace Eisenscher 
where I saw them frequently, or the case of Gloria and Jack Killian. 

I would know those names because I contacted them time and time 
again. In the case of this lady I know her by sight and that is all. 

Mr. Willis. You attended 2 or 3 series of classes? 

Mr, Ondrejka. The first series was divided into 2 sections. The first 
series were held at Jefferson Hall. The second part of the same course 
was held in the home of Sigmund Eisenscher. A year later I had a 
different series. 

Mr. Willis. Did those persons that you named a while ago attend 
the whole series of lectures as you did, or just some of them? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I would say if there were 7 series they may have 
attended 6. It is possible that at one time or another somebody couldn't 
be there. It is my recollection that Mort Altman, Grace Eisenscher, 
Elizabeth Blair, and myself and John and Gloria Killian attended the 
greater part of these courses while this one lady to whom I have alluded 
probably did not attend more than 2 sessions. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that during the period of time that you 
were taking your course at Marquette you were employed by the Allen- 
Bradley Manufacturing Co.? 

Mr. Ondrejka. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment there? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I was a machine operator at Allen-Bradley Co. I 
worked third shift while I was in school. I still work third shift from 

II to 7. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time that you became a member of the Com- 
munist Psirty in 1949 was there a cell or group of the Communist 
Party organized within Allen-Bradley Manufacturing Co. plant? 

Mr. Ondrejka. At the time I became a member of the Communist 
Party in 1949 I did not work at the Allen-Bradley Co. I worked as a 
salesman in a retail slioe establisliment. 

Now in February of 1951 I returned to the Allen-Bradley Co. At 
that time there was no cell at Allen-Bradley. I might mention that 
November of 1951 was the first time that 1 had an inkling that we 
were considering setting up a communist cell at the AUen-Bradley 
Co. The reason for that was this : It was approximately November 15 
of 1951. I can pinpoint the day because in Milwaukee the Schuster 
Stores have what they call an annual Christmas parade. ^ It is a Santa 
Claus on a streetcar. We live in West Allis. We were invited to at- 



COMJVrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 707 

tend a dinner at the home of Jack and Gloria who at that time lived 
off North Avenue on the East Side. I did not know the reason for 
being invited to their home in that particular case. I knew Jack and 
Gloria Killian because they were officers of the Labor Youth league ; 
Gloria Killian in the capacity of chairman of the Labor Youth league 
and her husband, I think in the capacity of secretary. 

The reason I know both were officers was at the time they were 
elected they said that the two could work together, because tliey were 
husband and wife, on these matters. 

To get to this date, we left the house extremely late on that oc- 
casion and because of this parade and everything else, by the time we 
came to John Killian's home tliey had already eaten and had called 
and got no answer. They warmed the meal for us. We ate in the 
kitchen and went in the living room and John Killian told us the 
reason why he invited us for this particular dinner. 

At that time he stated to me that lie and I being members of the 
party both working at Allen-Bradley had to have some coordination 
of our activities at the Allen-Bradley plant. It was at that time that 
he was attempting to formulate a plan whereby his wife, Gloria 
Killian, who was then employed in the union office, the union that 
represents the workers at the Allen-Bradley plant, himself, myself, 
and my wife who has no connection whatsoever with the Allen-Bradley 
plant were to be members of this cell. 

Before I go on I would like to clarify one little point. It may seem 
strange that you take a person completely removed from a plant 
and make them a member of the plant cell. It is not so strange when 
you understand the motive behind it, wliicli we will get to when we 
get to the Allen-Bradley cell. Unfortunately, I don't know what be- 
came of that plan that John Killian had mentioned tliat night be- 
cause early the following year my wife was assigned to the West AUis 
women's group and we did not have a cell in Allen-Bradley in 1052. 

I miglit mention the party activity before this cell was formed. In 
A])ril of 1951, I would say the first week in April, two months after 
I returned to the Allen-Bradley Co., my wife told me on a Friday 
night that Jimmy De Witt wanted to see me. 

I was a new employee in my 90 days' probation. On the Saturday 
night following this Friday we held a party social at the home of my 
wife's dad who is Joseph Rody, Sr., on 89th Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean a Communist Party social ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Yes. They had a basement fairly fixed up for that 
type of thing. During the course of that Saturday evening I was 
playing cards with both Jack Kling who was chairman of the State 
party and Fred Blair who was the vice chairman of the State party, 
and at different times during that night, and not both at the same 
time, one had taken me earlier and asked me to go and see James 
De Witt as soon as I could, and later Fred Blair asked me the same 
thing, and I said Jack already told me about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think it is important to know the circumstances 
under which they told you to go to James De Witt. Did they make 
any further explanation as to why you were to go to James De Witt? 

Mr. Ondrejka. No; they knew I was working at Allen-Bradley 
and Jimmy De Witt wanted to see me. They did not say for what 
purpose, i did not get there on Monday 



708 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

On Tuesday afternoon I went to the UE district office, which was 
then on First and Wells. Anyway, it was Wells Street. I got the 
directions wrong. It is in this direction. I got there and in the room 
was Jimmy De Witt and another person on this side of the room. I 
know Jimmy De Witt by sight because I had seen him at three Peo- 
ple's Progressive Party conventions. I know him from a party meet- 
ing where he spoke. 

I said, "I am Mike Ondrejka. Fred Blair and Jack Kling sent 
me." I did not tell him my wife sent me. He said, "Fine, sit down. 
I want to talk to you." 

We were sitting facing Plankington. The other fellow whom I 
assume to be Schailer was sitting at the desk. He said, "First of all, 
get into the union as soon as you can." 

I said, "I cannot do it because my probation trouble was not up. 
I wanted to make sure that I was in the solid position as far as my 
job was concerned." 

He said, "O. K., wait until your 90 days is up." He said, "Attend 
all the meetings and do a lot of talking, no matter on what, and build 
a following." I was to do my best to become a steward. That was 
the first part he wanted to talk to me about. 

He gave me no instructions who to see. He told me those things. 
The other thing he told me was that he had another job for me which 
I put in my words originally, to do a job on Joe Preloznik and Barbara 
Tanner who are 2 ex-officers of the Electrical Union down there. I 
want to explain that now. 

He said, "Mike, as far as Earl and Tony and Herman are concerned, 
they are O. K. I am not imputing any Communist responsibility to 
these people whatsoever." That is what he told me. He said Herman, 
Tony, and Earl are O. K. ; Joe and Barbara he is worried about. He 
was more concerned with Joe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Joe who? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Joe Preloznik, who at that time I believe was the 
vice president of local 1111 at the Allen-Bradley Co. Barbara Tan- 
ner was the recording secretary. He said that Joe Preloznik was 
taking Barbara Tanner to the Marquette Labor College, being a series 
of courses at night whereby they got management and labor together 
and had certain lectures on the matter. 

He said, "Mike, between you and I, we know that that Marquette 
Labor School is being run by the Allis-Chalmers Co.," and he men- 
tioned a figure in the Allis-Chalmers Co. by the name of Johnson who 
is directly behind it all. 

So I was to go into the shop, become friends with Joe Preloznik. 
Because of the fact I was at Marquette LTniversitv I was to tell Joe 
what a lousy situation that school was, what it really stood for, in an 
effort to break up this relationship between Joe and Barbara going 
to this school. 

I left and those were the only instructions I got from Jimmy De 
Witt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he explain why he didn't want Joe Preloznik 
to attend this labor school ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Because of the fact that he was afraid he might 
be taken in by this stuff. That is what he said. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you met Joe Preloznik at that time ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 709 

Mr. Ondrejka. I know who Joe Preloznik is. Until about a year 
(•r possibly 2 years ago when he came on the night shift I knew him 
for a long, long time; I knew him to be an officer of the union but 
actually on a social basis I was not in contact with the man at all. 

Mr. Tavenner, You were not personally acquainted ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I did not go out with Joe on the outside of the plant. 
I talked with him when I saw him in the plant. From that time until 
1952 I have never had any outside contact with this Mr. Preloznik. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go to Mr. Preloznik and follow the direc- 
tions given to you by Mr. James De Witt ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I did not, because I was going to school 8 hours a 
day and working 8 hours a day, and besides that I was on the third 
shift from 11 to 7 and at that time Joe Preloznik was working days 
from 7 to 3 ; and therefore I did not get to see him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you follow the other two directions given to 
you by Mr. De Witt; that is, to become a member of the union and 
get on your feet and speak and try to develop yourself ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. I did, sir, but getting to be a steward ^as a very 
difficult situation because there was a steward there and I didn't feel 
it proper to bump him out and had to bide my time until he was 
transferred; and immediately when he was transferred in the follow- 
ing year I ran my legs out to get Joe Preloznik and Herman to hold 
a steward's election and when they were finally held after 4 months 
without a steward I was elected unanimously. 

Jack Killian at his home that time also told me to attempt to 
become a steward as soon as I could. 

Mr. Doyle. Was Jim De Witt an officer of the union ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Jimmy or James De Witt, I think would come under 
the term of the district representative from Milwaukee of the United 
Electrical. In other words, he is appointed as a district representa- 
tive. He is not an elected official from any local. He services the 
locals in the State of Wisconsin. 

Mr, Doyle. Do you know him as a member of the Communist Party 
in the State of Wisconsin? 

Mr. Ondrejka. Sir, I only know him from the fact that I was told 
by my wife and Fred Blair and Jack Kling to go and see Jimmy De 
Witt. When I saw him he said "Yes, I was expecting you." 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand that this union official of the UE from 
Wisconsin was condemning the labor school at Marquette University? 

Mr, Ondrejka, Absolutely, 

Mr. DoTLE. It is not clear to me why he would be condemning 
the university classes. He was a union leader and I thought they were 
all interested in getting tlie facts and as much education to many peo- 
ple, and their union leaders as possible. 

Mr. Ondrejka. I am quite sure that at that time the type of facts 
tauglit at Marquette were not the type of instructions that he wanted 
Joe Preloznik or Barbara Tanner to receive. 

Mr. Doyle. Was it a university class ? 

Mr. Ondrejka. It was. It was conducted by some of the finest peo- 
'^■1f' I have ever known at Marquette. But nevertheless, he made it 

. te clear tliat he did not want them attending that class or get- 
g taken by the type of thing they were teaching. 

Mr. DoYLK. I am always disappointed, may I say, when I find union 

..(lers tliat do not want their union members to be as fully informed 



710 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE MILWAUKEE, WIS., AREA 

as possible. I have never been a union man. I have never been an 
attorney for a hibor union yet I am always endorsed in my cam- 
paigns for election by the CIO and the AFL, and out West, at least, 
I have never heard of a union leader condemning university classes. 
I am shocked that th&y do it here. 

The committee in a minute or two will recess until 1 : 30. If it is 
not clear to any of you folks that are in the courtroom as to why we 
are taking advantage of this witness' knowledge of the methods used 
by the Communist Party in Milwaukee and Wisconsin, and are going 
into it to the extent that we are, may I remind you that under Public- 
Law 601 passed in 1946. by virtue of which law we are here in Wis- 
consin, our duty is to investigate the extent, character, and objects 
of un-American subversive propaganda activities in the United States 
and the diffusion within the United States of subversive propaganda 
that is instituted from foreign countries or is of domestic origin, and 
which attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed 
by our Constitution and all other questions in relation thereto that 
would aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation. 

So if it appears that we are taking time to get as much help as pos- 
sible as to methods used by the Communists or by any subversive 
group, it is because our duty as a subcommittee is to report back to 
the full committee of Congress what we think might be well to do in 
remedial legislation. The whole purpose of these committee meet- 
ings is with reference to legislation. 

The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 30. 

( Witness excused. ) 

(Whereupon, at 12 noon the hearing was recessed to reconvene at 
1 : 30 p. m. the same day. Remainder of this hearing is printed in 
part 2 of this series. 



BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY 



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