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Full text of "Investigation of Communist infiltration of Government. Hearing"

HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF 
GOVERNMENT— PART 3 

r,n rmlEGtUBRAl". 



lU^Y 81956 

HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



FEBRUARY 14, 15, AND 16, 1956 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
(Index in Part 5 of this series) 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
70811 WASHINGTON : 1956 






COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, JR., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

EDWIN E, WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

U 



CONTENTS 



PART 3 

February 14, 1956: 

Testimony of— Pase 

James Edgar Gorham 3111 

Arthur Stein 3136 

Myer Harry Naigles 3152 

February 15, 1956: 

Irving Richter 3165 

Morris Levine 3181 

Bertha Blair 3197 

February 16. 1956: 

Henry Rhine 3205 

Marcel S. Kistin 3222 

Sylvia Soloff Steinberg 3231 



PART 4 
February 21, 1956: 
Testimony of— 

Joseph B. Robison 3245 

Martin Kurasch 326 1 

David Rein 3281 

Allan R. Rosenberg 3300 

February 23, 1956: 
Testimony of — • 

Ruth Weyand (Perry) 3309 

Victor Perlo 3331 

February 24, 1956: 
Testimony of — 

Lillian Kurasch (Mrs. Martin Kurasch) 3337 

Jacob H. Krug 3356 



PART 5 

February 28, 1956: 
Testimony of — - 

Selma Rein (Mrs. David Rein) 3377 

Helen Roark Hill 3385 

February 29, 1956: 
Testimony of— 

Lawrence Elkind 3395 

Sidney Katz 3400 

Julia Katz (Mrs. Sidney Katz) 3416 

Robert N. Greenberg 3420 

Robert R. Ehrlich 3428 

March 1, 1956: 

Testimony of — 

Lawrence Raymond LaVallee 3439 

Nathan Witt 3448 

Edwin S. Smith 3456 

Samuel M. Koenigsberg 3485 

Marie Prince 3496 

Morton Friedman 3498 

Index {see Part 5 of this series) 1 

ni 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress (1946), chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of Amei~ica in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTBa:S 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWEES AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American Activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, char- 
acter, and ob.lects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has ad.iourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairaian, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

V 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955 
• *♦*♦*• 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each CJongress, 
the following standing committees : 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
t ***** * 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of im-American propaganda activities in the United States, 

(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 

(3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 






INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST INFILTRATION 
OF GOVERNMENT— PART 3 



TUESDAY, FEBRUAEY 14, 1956 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. G. 

public hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
at 10 : 15 a. m., pursuant to notice, in the Caucas Room of the House 
Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter, of 
Pennsylvania (presiding) ; Morgan M. Moulder, of Missouri; Clyde 
Doyle, of California ; James B. Frazier, Jr., of Tennessee, and Edwin 
E. Willis, of Louisiana. 

Staff members present: Richard Arens, acting counsel; Courtney 
E. Owens, investigator. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Let the record show that I, Francis E. Walter of Pennsylvania, 
chairman of the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of 
Representatives, Washington, D. C, pursuant to the provisions of 
law, have duly appointed a subcommittee for the purpose of conduct- 
ing this hearing, composed of Representatives Moulder, Doyle, 
Frazier, and myself, as subcommittee chairman. 

As is generally laiown, this committee, in 1948, received extensive 
testimony from Whittaker Chambers and Elizabeth Bentley, dealing 
with the existence of certain Communist cells within the Federal 
Government service. 

From this testimony it was quite apparent that there existed 
within the Government, other organized cells of the Communist 
Party. This was confirmed, in part, when the committee heard the 
testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward, who, as an undercover agent 
for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, attained the position of 
treasurer of the Communist Party of Washington, D. C. She testi- 
fied that she was aware of the existence of several organized cells in 
various Government agencies by virtue of receiving dues payments; 
however, the identity of the groups and of the individuals were 
unknown to her because of the high degree of security practiced by 
the Communist Party in protecting these groups. This fact was 
confirmed by the testimony of Herbert Fuchs at the beginning of 
these hearings in Chicago on December 13, 1955. This is a continua- 
tion of those hearings. Professor Fuchs, in his testimony, testified 
fully and completely about his Communist Party membership while 

3109 



3110 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

being an employee of the Federal Government and gave tlie commit- 
tee information heretofore unknown. This investigation and hearings 
are expected to reveal the former existence of at least 10 cells of 
organized, disciplined Communists within various Govermnent 
agencies, comprised at that time of Government employees. 

The Congress and the agencies involved must be made aware of 
the character, extent, and objectives of Communist propaganda ac- 
tivities when such activities are carried on by Government employees 
who are subject to the direction and discipline of the Connnuuist 
Party, and this is the purpose of these hearings. 

On the basis of staff investigations and hearings which have been 
held, we anticipate that this series of hearings will disclose the 
identity of certain people who have been or now are in the Communist 
apparatus, some of whom were first identified during the testimony of 
Herbert Fuchs in Chicago on December 13, 1955, and others who have 
not been thus far identified publicly. The hearings will reveal a situa- 
tion that existed in the Federal Government in the past regarding 
Communist infiltration, and will indicate whether or not there is 
any present infiltration of the Government service by the Communist 
Party ; to this end, the committee intends to interrogate several pres- 
ent employees of the Federal Government. However, it would be pre- 
mature for any conclusions to be drawn at this time that there exists 
today in the Federal service any number of Communist Party 
members. 

With regard to those subpenaed for these hearings, the committee 
will try to develop the facts as to what these people are doing now, 
whether they are still in the Communist apparatus, and, if so, some- 
thing of their activities, whether in Government, in industry, labor, or 
the professions. 

I think it is important to emphasize that a Communist or a person 
under Communist discipline can often be as dangerous to the security 
of our Nation in nongovernmental activities as he can if he is tech- 
nically on the Government payroll. 

To the witness who has once been a part of that alien conspiracy 
and has seen the error of his ways and broken with the Communist 
Party, and is possessed of the fortitude to take the stand and relate his 
experiences and give the committee the benefit of his knowledge, the 
committee and the country owe a debt of gratitude. It is not an easy 
task to appear before a congressional committee and lay bare all of 
your shortcomings of years gone by. Such persons will be subjected 
to all the vituperations that can be heaped upon them by the well-or- 
ganized smear bund of the Communist Party and its henchmen. To 
those witnesses who decide they will give us the benefit of their knowl- 
edge, I have this to say : You will have the heartfelt thanks of your 
fellow Americans and you will have made a worthy contribution to the 
cause of a free world. 

It is the standing rule of this committee that any person named in 
the course of a committee hearing as a member of the Communist 
Party, be given an early opportunity to appear before this committee, 
if he so desires, for the purpose of denying or explaining any testi- 
mony adversely affecting him. Should such an occasion arise, the 
individual concerned should communicate with a member of the staff 
or with me. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3111 

Those of you present in this hearing room are reminded that you are 
the guests of the committee. Disturbances of any kind or audible com- 
ment during the course of testimony, whether favorable or unfavorable 
to any witness or the committee, will not be tolerated. For infractions 
of this rule, the offender immediately will be asked to leave the room. 

Call your first witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Akens. Mr. James E. Gorham. 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES EDGAE GOEHAM, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, MURDAUGH STUART MADDEN 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly remain standing and raise your hand 
to be sworn ? 

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Gorham. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly state your full name ? 

Mr. Gorham. James Edgar Gorham. 

Mr. Arens. Are you accompanied today by counsel ? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Madden. Murdaugh S. Madden. I am an attorney here in 
Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, are you appearing today before the House 
Committee on Un-American Activities, pursuant to a subpena which 
was served upon you ? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. That subpena was served on you on the 23d day of 
September 1955 ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Gorham. I believe so, sir. 

Mr. Arens. At the time of service of this subpena, where were you 
employed ? 

Mr. Gorham. At the time of the service of the subpena I had re- 
signed from the Civil Aeronautics Board but the resignation had not 
taken effect as yet. 

Mr. Arens. Have you resigned from that position as of now ? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, sir, as of September 30. 

Mr. Arens. In your own way, would you kindly give the committee 
a brief resume of your early life, where you were born and when, and 
a word about your educational background. 

Mr, Gorham. I was born in Philadelphia in June of 1911, and my 
family moved to New York about 1918. I completed my education 
in New York public schools, and I started college at the State School 
of Forestry at Syracuse, but transferred to Columbia to study eco- 
nomics in the middle of my freshman year. I received my bachelor 
of arts at Columbia. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat year was that ? 

Mr. Gorham. 1934. 

Mr. Arens. Will you please give us without details the sequence 
of the employments wliich you have had since you completed your 



3112 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

formal education, the places of your employment, and a word of de- 
scription of that employment? 

Mr. GoRHAM, Actually my employment with the Government started 
before I had completed my college education. I was employed in a 
relief project in New York in February of 1934, and I was completing 
my work for a degree which I got in June of 1934. So I started my 
Government employment in February of 1934 in a project under the 
general administration of Mr. Eastman, who was then Federal Co- 
ordinator of Transportation. 

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your particular assignment? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I was a statistical clerk. 

Mr. Arens. And the name of the agency? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Well, I have forgotten the project number, but I 
think it was 177. It was the white-collar civil works project under 
FERA, but it was a study of wages and hours of railroad employees 
in connection with the need for retirement systems. 

Mr. Arens. And the location ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. In New York, at, I believe, 60 Hudson Street. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly move on to the next employment. 

Mr. GoRHAM. During the period of my employment in New York, 
the first Railroad Retirement Act was passed, and at that time the 
bulk of the employees who were then on the project were transferred 
for a brief period to the railroad retirement payroll. That was, I 
believe, about September of 1934. 

Mr. Arens. Were you included in that group that was transferred? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I was, yes. Now, we remained in New York. The 
act was declared unconstitutional by a lower court and we were taken 
back on the Coordinator's payroll until the 1st of December of 
1934, at which time the project in New York was liquidated and 26 
people were brought to Washington to finish some of the remaining 
work on the project. I was 1 of the 26. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly keep the chronology in order here. 
Wliat year were you transferred to Washington as part of this group ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. It was in December of 1934. Actually, it was not 
a transfer. Technically, it was a new employment, and an offer of 
temporary employment. I was almost immediately— I would say, 
within a week after my coming to Washington — loaned to the Rail- 
road Retirement Board which was operating with a limited staff under 
lower court injunction. 

_ Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve with the Railroad Re- 
tirement Board ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I served as assistant to the Chairman of the Board, 
engaged primarily in the collection of data on control over railroad 
subsidiaries, in connection with the proposed administration. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, on the chronology. 

Mr. GoRHAM. The Railroad Retirement Act was declared uncon- 
stitutional by the Supreme Court in, I think, June or July of 1935. 
Shortly after that or about that time, it was planned to undertake 
an investigation of railroad financing, and I applied for a job with 
that organization, but I was not immediately employed. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliat organization ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. The Subcommittee To Investigate Railroads, Hold- 
ing Companies, and Related Matters. 



COM]VnJNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3113 

Mr. Arexs. Could you give us a better description of that sub- 
committee? 

Mr. GoRHAM. It was a subcommittee of the Senate Committee on 
Interstate and Foreign Commerce, set up under Senate Resolution 71. 

Mr. Arens. "\\1io was the chairman of the committee? 

Mr. GoRHA]Nr. The chairman of the committee was Senator Wlieeler, 
and the chairman of the subcommittee was the then Senator Truman. 

Mr. Arens. TVithout going into detail, would you kindly go on with 
the chronology. How long were you with this committee, and in 
what capacity ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I was not immediately taken on by the committee and 
since I was not, nor had no other employment prospects, I applied for 
and received a job with the Works Progress Administration. I went 
with the Works Progress Administration in July of 1935, and I was 
engaged in establishing a statistical coding system for control of the 
Works Progress activities, measuring the rate of employment in 
utilization of materials. 

Toward the end of 1935 — and I am not sure of the exact month — 
the Senate Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce requested 
the Works Progress Administration to lend my services to them for 
the work of the subcommittee, which the Works Progress Adminis- 
tration did. So that I commenced my employment, although not 
on the payroll, by actual emplojmient with the Senate subcommittee 
some time toward the end of 1935. 

Mr. Arens. Although you had previously been working with the 
subcommittee on a loan arrangement; is that correct? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, sir ; I am sorry. I am trying to get this straight. 
Wlien I left the Railroad Retirement Board I went to the Works 
Pi'ogress Administration and worked for them in tlieir own offices, 
and in the fall of 1935 I went to work on loan from WPA to the rail- 
road finance investigation. 

Mr. Arens. Of the Wheeler committee? 

ISIr. GoRHAM. Yes. Now, I think I remained on loan for a period 
of approximately 2 or 21/0 years, at whicli time the Works Progress 
Administration found it impossible to continue me on their payroll, 
and the committee, itself, took me on their payroll. I am not sure of 
the exact date of that, although the Government records will un- 
doubtedly show it, but I did go on the Senate committee payroll be- 
fore I left the committee work, which was in May of 1938. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us the next employment you had and the 
approximate dates of that employment. 

Mr. GoRHAM. After leaving the railroad finance investigation there 
was a proposal to cut the wages of railroad employees bj' 15 percent 
in 1938. Several of the railroad unions were attempting to fight the 
proposed cut and someone, I don't know whom, ]3roposed to the Broth- 
erhood of Railroad Trainmen tliat if they could develop information 
on the wages of the railroads in their financial activities, it would 
show what the wage cut was unneeded. So 2 or 3 people from the 
former Wlieeler committee staff, including myself, were employed by 
the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen to pull together the material 
from public records for that. I worked for the Brotherhood from, I 
think. May to October of 1938, and part of the time in Washington, 
and part in Chicago. 



3114 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly proceed, then, to recount the next em- 
ployment you had, together with the approximate dates. 

Mr. GoRiiAM. In 1938, the joint House-Senate investigation of 
monopoly was instituted, and as part of their policy they allocated 
funds to various agencies who specialized in particular fields to con- 
duct investigations for them. One such agency was the Securities 
and Exchange Commission. 

My work with the Wheeler subcommittee gave me a detailed knowl- 
edge of railroad linancing and I was originally hired by the Securities 
and Exchange Commission in October or November of 1938 to make 
studies of the Van Sweringen Railroad finance empire. I subsequently 
made a study of concentration of stockownership for the monopoly 
committee. 

Mr. Akens. When did that employment terminate? 

Mr. GoKiiAM. The INIonopoly Study Division of the SEC was liqui- 
dated, I think, in the early part of 1940, and I was continued on the 
committee's own payroll until I finished the particular monograph 
which I was working on, which was in September or October of 1940. 
At that time I returned to the SEC, having secured a regular full-time 
job there as an employee in the Investment Company Division of the 
Securities and Exchange Commission. 

Mr. Arens. When did that employment with SEC, as such, 
terminate? 

Mr. GoRHAM. The Securities and Exchange Commission did not get 
involved in the defense effort and I transferred to the Office of Price 
Administration in March of 1942, in order to play some part in the 
defense effort. 

Mr. Arens. State briefly, without too much detail, what was your 
function at OPA? 

INIr. GoRHAM. I held various jobs in the 5 years I was in OPA, and 
they all dealt with economic analysis, and I was originally in the 
Research Division, and I was head of a research section in the Ma- 
chinery Branch, and I was in the Executive Office of the President 
reviewing proposed projects, and I was later economic investigator in 
the AjDparel Division, and still later the same position in the Building 
ISIaterials Division. And subsequent to that I was price executive 
of the Building Construction Price Branch, and finally, the division 
economist for the Building Construction Price Branch, which position 
I left when the agency was liquidated in 1946. 

Mr. Arens. When did you finally become disassociated from the 
OPA? 

Mr. GoRHAM. There was a continuation project. I have forgotten 
the name of it. It was an office for tem})orar3^ controls, or something 
like that, set up, which continued through part of 1947, and I think 
I was terminated from that project in March, April or May, some one 
of those months. I was put on leave status. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us, if you please, your next employment. 

Mr. GoRiiAM. I was employed very briefly in the construction in- 
dustry and in an unsuccessful attempt at prefabricated housing. 

JNIr. Arens. Outside the Government? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. Yes; sir; and I returned to the Government in Octo- 
ber of 1947, as an emploj'ee of the Civil Aeronautics Board. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3115 

Mr. Arens. That is the employment from which you resionied about 
tlie time you received tliis subpena from the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities; is that correct? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I had actually resigned prior to receiving the subpena, 
and I accelerated my resignation when I received it in a desire to avoid 
any possible embarrassment to the agency, since I intended to leave it 
anyway. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us, if you please, sir, for the moment, just 
the dates when you were a member of the Communist Party, when 
you were recruited, and your period of service. 

Mr. Gorham. I joined the Communist Party in this New York 

groject in May, I believe, of 1934, and I finally left the party when the 
ecurities and Exchange Commission moved to Philadelphia, which 
would be — I either left in the latter part of 1941 or the first month or 
two in 1942. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us the circumstances surround- 
ing your joining of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, sir. I had been a member of the Socialist Party 
at the time, and I had been active in the development of what we hoped 
would be means of avoiding a world war on the campus, in the years 
1932, 1933, and 1934. I had actively fought communism, as a matter 
of fact, and Comnumist control of campus organizations. I found 
when I came to work for this particular project and joined a union 
on this Government project, that groups who operated in the same 
way they had operated on the Columbia campus were active in the 
union. I attempted to enlist the support of other Socialists in a 
counter group, and I was unsuccessful in doing so. The Socialist 
morale was at a rather low ebb at that time, and Dollfuss had just 
exterminated the Socialists in Austria, and the morale was generally 
pretty low. Finding no cooperation from other liberals and other 
Socialists on the project, I came to the conclusion that if I could not 
lick them, I would join them and perhaps I could do something inside 
the Commuinst Party to keep them from involving the union unduly, 
in extracurricular activities. I approached some of the people whom 
I thought were Communists and expressed an interest, and they ex- 
pressed an interest in me and told me something about the party. 

JNIr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, I propose to interrogate you m detail 
with reference to each unit or fraction of the Communist Party in 
which you were a member, all through your career in the party, includ- 
ing the time, of course, in which you held various positions in the 
Federal Government. So I now invite your attention to the first unit 
or fraction of which you were a member. 

Will you tell us, if you please, sir, who actually recruited you into 
this first unt, and identify the unit. 

]\Ii'. Gorham. There was a Mr. Louis Lehrman, who was an em- 
ployee of the project, and whom I knew fairly well both from union 
activities and since he was a senior statistician, or senior to me on the 
project. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify him as fully as you can by 
physical appearance, position, or station in life, and any other de- 



3116 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

scriptive data that would more clearly make his identification evi- 
dent. 

Mr. GoRHAM. I am going back 22 years, and I can only give you my 
best recollection of someone 22 years ago, as I remember him now. 
But Mr. Lehrman, at that time, at any rate, was fairly slight in 
build, I would say dark complexion, straight hair, and wore fairly 
heavy glasses, as I recall, and I would say he was shorter than I am, 
which would place him around 5 feet 6 to 5 feet 8, And that is about 
all I can tell you about him. 

Mr, Arens. "\Aniere did you become acquainted with Mr. Lehrman? 

Mr. GoRHAM. On the project where we both were employed and 
through the union activities. 

The Chairman. May I interrupt at that point? 

Mr. Gorham, at the time that you were transferred to Washington, 
I believe it was in December of 1934, were you a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Were the other 26 people employed with you on 
that project all Communists? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Not to my knowledge, sir. I believe I was the only 
one. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify the Communist unit or fraction with 
which you were connected in this project in New York City. 

Mr. GoRHAM. This was actually what they called a fraction. In 
other words, it included non-Party members who were sympathetic 
to the Party and members of youth organizations who were working 
on the project. It was organized entirely of people who were work- 
ing on this particular job — total employment originally numbered 500. 
So the fraction, itself, I think, may have amounted to upwards of a 
dozen people. Of them only a few were actual Communist Party 
members. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your experience in this fraction, did you 
have occasion to become acquainted and familiarize yourself with 
names and identities of persons who were, to your certain knowledge, 
known to be members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes. There was INIr. Lehrman and there were 2 or 3 
others of whom, my recollection is, were party members. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify the other members of that 
fraction who. to your certain knowledge, were members of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

]Mr. GoRHAM. To the best of my recollection — and I must again 
warn that we are going back 22 years — the members of the fraction 
who were party members, the leader was a woman, a girl by the name 
of Barbara Best. 

Mr. Arens. AVould you kindly give us as much identification as you 
can with reference to Barbara Best? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I do not recall too much about her. 

IVfr. Arens. Was she employed at the same place ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes ; I believe she was. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity? 

Mr. Gorham. These were mainly clerks, this was primarily a cleri- 
cal operation. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat was her function with the fraction ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3117 

Mr. GoRHAM. She was the leader of this fraction, definitely, and 
1 am trying to recall her appearance. She was not tall, she was fairly 
short, I would say around 5 feet 2, or something like that, and also 
I think — I can't tell you much more about her, but I believe she wore 
her hair long at the time. 

Mr. Arens. When did you last have contact with her ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. "VVlien I moved to Washington in 1934. 

Mr. Arens. Can you identify other members of that fraction ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes; there was a man who shared leadership with 
her, whose name I recall as Bob, and I have been unable to identify 
him further. There was, in addition to that, a man by the name of 
Elkind, Lawrence Elkind, who was a member of the party at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Can you give us a bit of descriptive data with reference 
to Lawrence Elkind ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. He was about the same height as Miss Best. In 
other words, he was shorter than Lehrman, and he was an older man, 
and at the time I must have been 23, and he would probably have been 
in his 30's at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify Lawrence Elkind as a 
person who, to your certain knowledge, was a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. GoRHAM. To the best of my knowledge, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you served with him in this fraction? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are there other persons who, to your certain knowledge, 
were members of the Communist Party within this fraction ? 

Mr. GoRHxVM. Not to my certain knowledge, no, sir. There were 
■others who were in the fraction, but as far as I know they were not 
at the time active party members. They may have been in youth 
groups. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection, Mr. Gorham, of other func- 
tionaries of the Communist Party who may have had contact with 
this particular fraction to give the instructions or to give the super- 
vision or to have any contact party wise with this fraction ? 

Mr. Gorham. The fraction was split up and down and through the 
middle with bitter disagreement on how the union affairs should be 
conducted and what should be done beyond that. There was at least 
one visit, I recall, by some party functionary, to tell us that we ought 
not to operate that wa}''. I do not recall who it was who was brought 
in. 

The only other functionary I had any contact with was when I was 
originally signed up as a Communist Party member, and then I was 
taken to see— I do not remember the man's name — he was in some kind 
of insurance business at the time, and I think he has since died. It 
is a name that I have heard and it is rather well-known, I believe, but 
I do not recall it at the moment. 

Mr. Arens. Before we leave this fraction in New York City to move 
•on to the next activity of yours in the Communist Part}'', could you 
tell us something of the functions performed by this fraction of the 
•Communist Party in which you were active ? 

Mr. GoRTiAM. Yes, sir. The functions were originally and pri- 
marily to develop a strong union organization among the employees 
of the project. 



3118 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. T\^ien you say "a strong union organization," what do 
you mean ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. Numerically strong, and strong in the sense that it 
had an active grievance procedure, and that it would attempt to handle 
matters to which the employees objected. 

It also, in addition to the union activity, attempted to involve its 
members in citywide relief demonstrations asking for higher relief 
allowances, and so on. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you participate in those demonstrations ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, and helped to organize them. And I think there 
was mass picketting on one occasion that I participated in. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly continue in the career which you 
had in the Communist Party by reciting the description of the next 
unit of the party to which you were attached ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I mentioned, in reviewing my employment, that for 
a period of time this group was put on the payroll of the Railroad 
Retirement Board. The number of people employed by the project 
had then been reduced to about 200 from the original 500. It was 
expected that these people would be the original nucleus of the Rail- 
road Retirement Board staff under the then new act, since the act had 
grown out of the work of this particular project. At about that time, 
which would be in September if my recollection is correct 

Mr.ARENS. Of 1934? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes. Three people visited us from Washington to 
confer with 2 or 3 of the members of the fraction about the Washington 
organization and about what would be done when we were moved to 
Washington. 

Mr. Arens. '\^^io were those 2 or 3 people who visited you from 
Washington ? 

Mr. GoRHA:>r. One of them was IVIr. Albert Blumberg, who was at 
that time, I believe, at Johns Hopkins University. And another was 
Miss Eleanor Nelson, who Avas then, I think, employed by the Labor 
Department. And the third, if my recollection is correct, was Mr. 
Henry Rhine, who was then employed by the National Recovery 
Administration. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you acquire knowledge that each of these three 
persons whom you have just named were at that time Communist 
Party functionaries ? 

Mr. GoRHAiM. They came to us in that capacity, sir, to explain to a 
selected group which included Miss Best, Mr. Elkind, and myself, 
and possibly this man Bob, I am not sure — to explain to us what the 
nature of the organizational setup was in Washington and what the 
nature of the union situation would be. 

Mr. Arens. By "the nature of the organizational setup," I take it 
that you mean the nature of the Communist Party organizational 
setup. 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you, here and now, identify Albert Blumberg, 
Eleanor Nelson, and Henry Rhine as persons who, to your certain 
knowledge, were Communist Party functionaries ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. They represented themselves to be so, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did they confer with you and other Communists in 
closed sessions, in New York City? 

Mr. GoRHAM. One such session. 



COMJMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3119 

Mr. Arens. And no person was admitted to that session who was 
not a Communist ; is that correct ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, that is my basis for feeling sure of my identifica- 
tion of the people I have identified from the fraction. 

JNIr. Arens. "Without going into too much detail with reference to 
these conversations, tell us, so far as you could ascertain, the essence 
of those conversations, the purpose of the conversations, and the result 
of the conversations. 

iNIr. GoRiiA:\r. It was explained at that time, in the Government in 
Washington there were two union organizations, one in the A. F. of I>., 
and another independent of the A. F. of L., and that within the A. F. 
of L. unions there was a difference of opinion in how union work 
should be conducted. It was said that the unions in which the Com- 
munists had an influence were attempting to develop something paral- 
lel to unionism outside the Government. That is, the right to have 
grievance machinery, the right to secure adjustment in working 
conditions, and other similar activities, that the leadership of the 
union at that time was interested primarily in securing actions 
through legislation. 

They also told us something about the unions which were what they 
described as progressive. They did not specifically state that there 
was Communist influence in each of these. My recollection of the 
organizations mentioned were the NRA, the then Agricultural Adjust- 
ment Administration, the then Labor Department. I do not recall 
the others. This is, again, 1934, when there were not too many 
organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, the record ought to be a little clearer here 
with reference to one item. Did any Communist, to your knowledge, 
set in motion the machinery for the transfer of known Communists 
from New York City to Washington ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. That was the intent of this particular visit, but as I 
shall explain in a minute, sir, it was not accomplished because of some 
changes in the work situation. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed ? 

Mr. Gorham. They also went, at some length, into an explanation of 
the Communist Party apparatus in Washington. They stated that 
there was what they described as an open party, which did not include 
Government employees, and there was another party organization 
which they said was organized on sort of a modified ABC system, 
which they explained to mean that the groups in one unit would have 
one person in the unit who would meet with similar individuals from 
other units, who in turn would have one person forming liaison to a 
higher unit, and the purpose of this was to prevent discovery or detec- 
tion. As we went into Communist operations in Washington, we 
would be expected to counsel our membership in the party since they 
felt that our effectiveness would be destroyed if we were known to be 
Communists. 

There was no such restriction in New York, although I had not pub- 
licly announced my membership. 

Mr. Arens. Could you give us additional information with refer- 
ence to their description to you of the "open party" in Washington? 

Mr. Gorham. They did not go into very great detail. It was organ- 
ized primarily among non-Government employees. 

70811 — 56 — pt. 3 2 



3120 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Did they give you an indication of its numerical 
strength and the extent to which its tentacles had permeated through 
the operations here in Washington ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. There was not very much discussion of it, since we 
were not going to be a part of it. I think all they said was that there 
was such an organization and organized relief demonstrations just as 
the Communist Party did in New York, and things of that sort, and 
May Day parades in Franklin Park here. 

They did not go into that because we were not to have any contact 
with it and not to be a part of it. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly dwell for a moment on the underground 
party, as they described it to you in this session or series of sessions in 
New York City? 

Mr. GoRHAM. The primary mission of the underground party in 
Washington we were going into was to organize what they described 
as a militant — I think the word used was a "real union." It was to get 
the union organization in Washington functioning in grievance activ- 
ity in seeking adjustment through direct negotiations between the 
employees and their immediate supervisors, and so on. 

Mr. Arens. By a "real iniion," or a powerful union, did they not 
have reference to a union which would be controlled, lock, stock, and 
barrel, by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I think that is definitely so, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did they, in the course of your conversations with them, 
give you an indication of the extent to which the underground Com- 
munist apparatus had penetrated the various agencies of the Federal 
Government ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, I received the impression tliat it was in all of 
the organizations that they mentioned as having sympathetic unions, 
and, of course, you see, among the 3 people wlio were there, was 1 
man from NRA, and a woman from the Labor Department, so obvi- 
ously there were 2 departments right there. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly describe, if you please, sir, the organization 
within the Communist apparatus with w^hich you were first identified 
upon your arrival in Washington. 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. As I explained, the Railroad Retirement 
Board was declared unconstitutional, and the employees were cut 
off, and instead of 200 people coming to Washington, only 26 people 
came to Washington. Now, there had been organized on the project 
in New York, originally as a rival union, a lodge of the American 
Federation of Government Employees. I believe it was after the visit 
of Blumberg and these others that the people in New York, myself 
included, dissolved our independent union and joined the A. F. of L. 
union. A^Hien we moved to Washington, then, it so happened by sheer 
accident of selection that very few of the people who had organized 
the A. F. of L. union and who had been opposed to the group I was 
working with, were brought to Washington. Only 1 or 2, I think, 
came, and I think of the total 26 people who came to Washington, only 
about 15 were members of the union. 

Mr. Arens. Plow many of tliose were Communists? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I believe I was the only one, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us about the unit to which you were attached upon 
your arrival in Washington. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3121 

Mr. GoRHAM. That is what I am doing. The union, once it got 
in Washington — or tlie group, once it got in Washington, chose me 
to act as president of the local, and as such I attended meetings of 
the District department of the American Federation of Government 
Employees. At one such meeting, or at a meeting of the Central 
Labor Union, I am not sure which, some 3 months after coming 
to Washington — in other words, about February, I think, of 1935 — 
I ran into Henry Rhine, whom I had mentioned as one of the three 
people who had met with us in New York. 

Mr. Arens. As a Communist? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. Rhine and I recognized each other, 
and he took me over to his house where I met his wife, and later he 
took me to a meeting of the Communist Party unit in the NRA. Since 
there were no other Communists, apparently, in the Railroad Retire- 
ment Board group, I was attached to the NRA group. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity were you attached to the NRA group ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Just as a member. 

Mr. Arens. How many members were in the NRA group ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. There were, I think, 4 or 5 people in the group at 
the time, and then later at least 1 other was recruited. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify these 4 or 5, or as many of them of 
whom you have a recollection. 

Mr. Gorham. There was Mr. Rhine, his wife, Jessica Buck Rhine. 
There was a Mr. John Donovan, whom I had known on the Columbia 
campus as a leading Communist. 

Mr. Arens. Woidd you give a little better identification of Mr. 
-John Donovan ? 

Mr. Gorham. Mr. Donovan was close to 6 feet tall — he could have 
been over — a rather long and lean, and a little older than the rest 
of us. Not, I would say, as old as Mr. Elkind. In other words, he 
was probably around 28. 

Mr. Arens. Where was he employed ? 

Mr. Gorham. He was employed by the NRA at that time. He had 
previously been in the graduate school on the Columbia campus, and 
active in student activities there. And I had had several differences 
of opinion with him at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another person whom you could identify as a 
member of that Communist Party cell ? 

Mr. Gorham. When I was brought into the cell, there were 1 or 2 
other women besides Miss Buck, or Mrs. Rhine. One of them, to the 
best of my recollection, was a Miss Marvel Lockhart. I am not 
positive of that identification, however. Now, subsequent to my 
joining that unit, a Mr. Arthur Stein was brought into the unit. 

Mr. Arens, Could you identify him? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes; he is present here in the hearing room thig 
morning, and he is close to my height and somewhat heavy-set. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity was Mr. Stein employed? 

Mr. Gorham. He was in NRA at the time, I believe, as a statisti- 
cian or mathematician in some capacity. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did he serve within the cell? 

Mr. Gorham. Well, originally, he was a member, just a member like 
myself. Later, apparently he may have gained — that chronologically 
belonsfs later. 



3122 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us what function or activity 
was engaged in by this NKA cell of the Communist Party, of which 
you were a member? 

Mr. GoRHAM. The main problem at the time was this: I joined at 
a time when we were coming close to the Supreme Court decisions 
on the Railroad Retirement Board, on the Agricultural Adjustment 
Act, and on the NRA itself. One of the main problems outside of 
regular union activities and how we could get the other unions in 
the A. F. of L. to a degree to institute grievance procedures was, 
what could be done to see that the employees, who were displaced 
if any of these agencies went out of existence, were transfen-ed else- 
where in the Government. My own agency was dissolved, and sub- 
sequently the NRA was declared unconstitutional, and I do not know 
whether this group made the decision, but at some time in 1935, a 
decision was made after unsuccessful attempts to get the regular 
District of Columbia top organization of the A. F. of L. Govern- 
ment union to take responsibility, a decision was made to set up a 
committee on Government personnel transfer. I thinly it was called 
the Inter-Lodge Committee on Government Personnel Transfer, to 
see what could be done to get agreements with the Civil Service Com- 
mission and action from the President to get employees shifted from 
the agencies going out of existence to new agencies which were being 
set up. 

Mr. Arens. Did you pay dues in the course of your membership 
in this cell of the Communist Part}' ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat were the dues? Do you have a recollection? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I do not recall ; it was based on an income-tax prin- 
ciple, a fairly steeply graduated income principle. 

Mr. Arens. Were any Communist Party cards issued ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I have never held a party card, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You were an undercover member of the Communist 
Party ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Gorham. 'No one in Washington held a card, to my knowledge. 
Cards may have existed in our names, but no one in Washington held 
a card. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge was there any record entry made 
of your membership, any documentation of your membership ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Not to my knowledge. Now, obviously some one in 
the group who collected dues had to have some method of keeping 
records. It seems to me that that was on a numerical basis or some 
code system of some kind. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have a party name other than your own name ? 

Mr. Gorham. I was never known by any name other than my own. 
"Wlien I joined the Communist Party I was asked not to join in mj 
own name by the party, and I have forgotten the exact name I chose. 
I think tliat I kept my own first name and I may have used the last 
name of Robinson or Robeson or something of that sort. I am not 
sure of the last name, but I never used it. 

Mr. Arens. Wil^ jo^i kindly proceed to tlie next unit of the Com- 
munist Party with which you were identified? Please give us, first, 
the dates and the agency, and then we will get into a description of 
the membership and activity of the unit. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3123 

Mr. GoRiiAM. In 1935, as I mentioned, I went to work for the Works 
Progress Administration, and almost immediately after that I was 
brought into the Works Progress Administration unit. That was 
the unit of the Communist Party which was already in existence. I 
was brought into that by either Miss Edna Eichter or Mr. Irving 
Eichter, whom I knew because I had rented a room in their apartment 
at one time. 

Mr. Arens. Would you hesitate there a moment, and give us more 
of a description of Mr. Irving Eichter and Edna Eichter? Were they 
husband and wife? 

Mr. GoKHAM. They were brother and sister. There was a third 
brother named Albert Eichter, but he was not in the WPA setup 
as far as I know. Edna Eichter was a woman about the size of Miss 
Best, and very much like her in physical appearance, and wore her 
hair long. 

Mr. Arens. Where was she employed ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. She was employed in WPA, and I think she was 
•either president or an officer in the WPA union. I think she was 
president of it at the time. At one time Mr. Eichter may have been 
president, but I think Edna was for a while. Irving Eichter was 
more blond than his sister and considerably taller, probably around 
jny height. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere was he employed ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Also at WPA. 

Mr. Arens. Before we proceed further, do you have any informa- 
tion, or have you reached any conclusion in your own mind on the 
basis of the assembly of facts as to whether or not your transfer from 
the NEA over to the next unit of the Communist Party was instigated 
or caused in any way by a Communist or a person under Communist 
direction? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I can only give you my conclusion. I assumed that 
Mr. Donovan, who was leader of the NEA group discussed it with 
Miss Eichter, who was leader of the WPA group, and it was agreed 
that I should be ti'ansferred and she should tell me so, which she did. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify each person who, to your certain knowl- 
edge, was a Communist within the unit which 3'ou are now discussing. 

Mr. Goriiam. There was some change in membership during the 
time, but the only people I can recall in addition to the two Eichters 
were a Mr. Sidney Katz and 

Mr. Arens. Would you further identify Mr. Katz please? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I think— or I am trying to give people in reference 
to myself, since my recollection cannot be too accurate that far back, 
but my impression is that Mr. Katz was probably slightly taller than 
me, and I may be in error there, but I think he was a bit on the pudgy 
side at that time. 

Mr, Arexs. Where was he employed ? 

Mr. Goriiam. He was — all of these people were employed in WPA. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity was he employed ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. That I do not know. 

Mr. Arens. Did he have another name ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Not to me, at any rate. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another person, who was a member of that 
Communist unit in the WPA ? 



3124 COIVOIUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. GoEHAM. There was a Mr. Bernard Greenberg, and a Miss 
Rebecca Pfefferman. 

Mr. Akens. Give us just a word of identification of each of those 
persons, please. 

Mr. GoRHAM. I don't remember Greenberg very well. He was 
rather open-faced, reasonably cheerful sort of person, and I think 
that probably he was about the same height as Katz and myself, 
possibly a little heavier than Katz. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what particular function he performed 
intheWPA? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, I don't recall the functions of any of these 
people, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please about Rebecca Pfefferman. 

Mr. GoRHAM. That is to the best of my recollection. She was a 
nervous woman and spoke with an accent and I don't know whether 
she was Austrian or Hungarian, but one or the other extraction, and 
an extremely volatile disposition. Also, she was dark complexioned. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a description of Marcel Kistin, if you please. 

Mr. GoRHAM. I haven't mentioned Mr. Kistin yet, but I will dO' 
so. Mr, Kistin was the additional person in the group whom I re- 
member. Mr. Kistin was a man I guess you would call somewhat 
romantic in appearance, he had curly hair and he was fairly tall, 
as I recall, or reasonably tall, and dressed quite well. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another person whom you can identify as a 
Communist in the WPA unit ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, I can't recall others at that time. I know that 
there were others there. I recall there were others in the group but 
I don't recall their names. There was at least 1 other woman, and 
possibly 2, and there may have been another man. 

Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party try to develop a security 
system whereby the member of one unit would be precluded from 
knowing the existence of another unit or the membership in the other 
unit? 

Mr. GoRHAM. That was the purpose of the setup as explained to us 
by Mr. Blumberg and Miss Nelson back in 1934 when they visited us, 
that in order to avoid or limit the number of people that would be 
known to persons who land in my present chair 

Mr. Moulder. In identifying the persons whose names you have 
mentioned, can you tell us where they came from or do you have any 
information as to where and what they are doing at the present time ? 
Can you give us some information as to what they were doing when 
you last knew them ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I don't know what happened to the Richters, or Mr. 
Greenberg or Miss Pfefferman, of Mr. Kistin. I haven't seen them. 
Mr. Donovan and Mr. Stein, I mentioned I saw a minute ago in the 
hearing room here, and the New York group I do not recall at all 
what happened to any of them who were in the New York group. 
I think that I would not be able to tell you anything about the 
present whereabouts of any of these people, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, could you stand up and point out to this 
committee by physical appearance in this room, the person whom, 
you have identified as Mr. Stein ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. This is Mr. Stein here. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3125 

Mr. Arens. Is Mr. Stein the gentleman seated second from the aisle- 
in the front row to the right of the committee ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. In the brown suit, smoking a cigarette, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have you completed your answer to the Congress- 
man's question? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us just in a word the function or activity 
of this WPA unit, to which you were attached ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. This unit was similar to all of those which 
I participated in with the Government, and had as its primary ob- 
jective more or less what was explained to us before we came to- 
Washington. It was to organize large unions and to get the unions- 
into vigorous activity on the theory that through grievance machinery 
and grievance activity and through actual conflict and struggle peo- 
ple's political level would be raised. That was the phrase used, and 
to get them ultimately into outside activities of various kinds, what 
later became known as front organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Did you within this particular unit have contact with 
the higher echelon in the Communist Party who gave the directions 
or were those directions and orders given to some other person in 
the union ? 

Mr. Gorham. The directions were laid down by Miss Richter in 
rather a dictatorial manner, I might say, sir. 

Mr. Arens. From whom did she receive the instructions? 

Mr. Gorham. She did not indicate. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed, now, to give us a brief 
description of the next entity within the party, with which you were 
identified, and the period of time in which you were a member. 

Mr. Gorham. I think it would be necessary to take a little time on 
this one. I can describe a little more about what was going on in 
this WPA group. 

You see, this was the first large group that I participated in, where 
I was in a union with the other members of the group. About the 
middle of the period when I was employed, Miss Richter was fired' 
from the Government for inefficient work and general inattention to 
her job. Now, her case was taken up as a grievance case, and it was 
a very poor case, and she had spent a great deal of her time on union 
activities, and there was a rather violent difference of opinion within 
the unit on whether it should be taken up, and there was an even more 
"violent disagreement within the union on whether it should be taken 
up. The unit decided to try and persuade the union to take it up, and 
did so. But after the case was fought and won, some of us, myself 
included, insisted there had to be more opportunity to get agree- 
ment on this kind of action in the future. Before I had joined the 
Communist Party, I had been assured that the members of the party 
had some say over the policies which were determined upon. They 
operated on what they call the principle of democratic centralism, 
namely that the members could discuss policies up to a point of deci- 
sion and then after that they had to, all of them, loyally carry them 
out. It seemed to me that we were getting all centralism and no 
democracy in this particular unit. So I protested that, and I also 
felt that our effectiveness was seriously destroyed in the union move- 
ment by the fact that we could not discuss with others in the pro- 



3126 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

gressive part of the union common programs and arrive at common 
policies. 

I discussed my difficulties with Miss Kichter, and I got no sympathy 
from her. I later discussed them with Mr. Donovan, whom I ex- 
plained that I had known for some time. Mr. Donovan appeared 
originally to be sympathetic with my difficulties, and felt that some 
of these ideas were sound. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the Mr. John Donovan, whom you have previ- 
ously identified in this testimony as a Communist ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. Yes, sir. Mr. Donovan persuaded me to put my 
thoughts in writing, and my recommendations for what really was 
an introduction of a little more democracy into the organization. 
After I had done so, I was detached from the work of the unit and 
I was brought before Mr. Donovan and Mr. Stein and Miss Nelson 
on trial for the very things that I had put forth in my written state- 
ment. 

Mr. Willis. He had asked you to prepare the statement ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, and he had pretended sympathy for the views, 
and then used it as a basis for charges against me. 

Mr. Willis. In other words, he asked you to write your own 
indictment. 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes. Now, the construction put on it was that I 
wanted the groups to meet among themselves and to have more free- 
dom of meetings between themselves, in order to undermine the 
leadership of the party organization in Washington, that one of the 
recommendations I had made was that they did not insist on picking 
every candidate for union office, which they insisted on doing. I felt 
it would not hurt to let a few people be chosen at random, and see 
what happened. That it was supposed to be my intent to substitute 
my own leadership for that of the party and get my own group going, 
and so on, and that I was really working against the interests of the 
Communist Party, and for that reason Mr. Stein and Miss Nelson 
and Mr. Donovan decided I should be suspended from party activity, 
which I was for a period of some months. Possibly it was a year. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that we have arrived at a point 
here where it would be perfectly consistent without breaking the 
continuity of Mr. Gorham's testimony, if the Chair would liJke to 
have a recess. 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. Proceed, Mr. 
Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, before the recess a few moments ago, you 
had just concluded describing to the committee the circumstances 
surrounding your suspension from the Communist Party. How long 
was that suspension in effect? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. I am not sure about the exact period. It was not 
more than a year, and it may have been only a few months, I don't 
recall. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us the facts and circumtances surrounding 
your reinstatement ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. Yes, sir, I continued to engage in union activities 
and this committee on Government transfer became quite active, and 
I was one of the active leaders in that, in spite of not having the bless- 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3127 

ing of the Communist Party at the time, and I think what happened 
was that they decided they needed to control me, so about — it was 
some time in 193G, I guess — Mr. Fuchs, who was employed like myself, 
by the Wheeler committee, identified himself to me as a Communist 
and indicated that he was to be my liaison and direct my work and 
advise me on my work in the union movement. 

Now, subsequent to that, some months later, a Mr. Samuel Koenigs- 
berg — another employee of the Senate committee whom I believe had 
just been recruited into the party by Mr. Fuchs, and I am not sure 
of the exact date of his joining — myself, with Mr. Fuchs, were set up 
as a formal unit. 

Mr. Arens. Within the Wheeler committee ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Well, in the Interstate Commerce Commission, be- 
cause the unit included either initially or immediately subsequent to 
its formation two other people, a Mr. Ellis Olim and, I think the 
other person was a Miss Sylvia Soloff. 

Mr. Arens. If you will pardon an interruption, before we get into 
the Wheeler committee, I would like to ask you a couple of questions 
to pick up some loose ends. While you were with the Railroad Retire- 
ment Board, did you ever have any contact or information respecting 
the Nathan Gregory Silvermaster group, which has been previously 
testified about before this committee ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No. The Railroad Retirement Board consisted of 
five Board members and their secretaries and two attorneys, and, 
I guess, a file clerk and myself, at the time. 

Mr. Arens. Was the Nathan Gregory Silvermaster group subse- 
quent to your service ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. It must have been, but I have no knowledge of it one 
way or the other except what I have read in the paper. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any acquaintanceship or information re- 
specting George Silverman of the Railroad Retirement Board ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. I met him, because he became, I believe. Director of 
Research or something like that, for the Retirement Board, and when 
I was job hunting in 1948, I guess it would be, I went to him to see — 
or I went to the Railroad Retirement Board and I was referred to him 
as Director of Research. I may have met him before that, I don't 
recall. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time know him as a Communist? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You had started to recount your experiences on the 
Wheeler committee and made reference to a contact which was made 
by Mr. Fuchs with you. Do you have any information of what 
precipitated the contact, how did Fuchs know you, and how did he 
initiate the conversation? 

Mr. GoRHAM. We worked together fairly constantly, and I think 
that I may have known his brother at one time, in high school, some 
years before. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a Communist? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. No ; I did not, but then I was not a Communist my- 
self then. I think what may have happened is that we may have 
had dinner together. It was not unusual to have social contact with 
people you worked with, and I think probably at some such occasion 
he indicated that he was a member, and that he was appointed to 
maintain liaison between myself and the party organization. 



3128 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. When did you first learn that Fuchs was a Communist? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I think it would have been some time in 1936, I am 
not sure of the exact date, but that fits in on the time chronology 
approximately. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly give us as full a description as you can 
in resume form, of the ICC Communist cell. 

Mr. GoRHAM. I have indicated who was in it AVliat did you want 
to know about it? 

Mr. Arens. What were the activities of the cell ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. The Interstate Commerce Commission local of the 
American Federation of Government Employees permitted employees 
•of the Senate AVlieeler committee who were physically working in the 
ICC building to become members of that union. I think we all became 
members. What we attempted to do was to get the union to become 
interested in the problem of interagency transfer, which we were 
promoting at that time, and then later when efforts were made to 
split off a section of the A. F. of L. union and form a CIO union, 
I was somewhat successful along with the other people in getting the 
ICC union to go along with it. Unfortunately, or fortunately, we did 
not take any members with us. 

Mr. Arens. When were you actually transferred to the Wlieeler 
-committee ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. You mean as far as my job was concerned? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. GoRHAM. I went to work there on loan — I guess it would have 
been October or November or some such time, in 1935. I went on the 
Wheeler committee payroll probably in 1936 or 1937, and possibly 
1937. It was toward the end. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information to the effect that your 
transfer to the Wheeler committee from the ICC was instigated in 
any way by a Communist or under Communist order or direction ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I was not in the ICC, sir, I was in WPA. But I do 
not know, I had asked for a job and I had been indorsed for it by the 
Chairman of the Kailroad Retirement Board, a Mr. Murray Latimer 
at that time, and the Wheeler committee, like many congressional 
committees at that time, borrowed as many people as possible from 
the executive agencies in order to save their own funds and stretch 
their own funds, and I always assumed that the reason for choosing 
me rather than someone else was that the WPA was willing to pay my 
-salary while I worked for them. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information that Communists par- 
ticipated in any way in the determination of your employment? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I have no knowledge of that, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you discuss the employment with any of the com- 
rades ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I undoubtedly indicated to them that I hoped to work 
there, but they were not as far as I know particularly interested in 
that. As a matter of fact that would probably have occurred during 
the period of my suspension, in which case I could not very well have 
discussed it with anyone, unless I discussed it with the NRA group at 
the time I originally applied. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us the name of each person identified with 
the Wheeler committee who to your certain knowledge was a member 
•of the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3129 

Mr. GoRHAM. I have just given them, sir, there was Mr. Koenigs- 
berg, Mr. Olim, and Miss Soloff. 

Mr. Arens. Can you give us a word of description about each of 
them? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Mr. Fuchs has appeared as a witness here, and I as- 
sume it is not necessary to describe him. Mr. Olim was rather aes- 
thetic looking type, slim, as I recall him, and he wore glasses, I think, 
and my impression of him is taller than I am, and again I use myself 
as a point of reference. 

Miss Soloff was a young woman and I think she was on the plump 
side, and I believe she was a brunette, and I do not recall, and she 
could have been blond. I do not remember very much about her. 
Koenigsberg was red-haired, he was also tall, and also wore glasses, 
and fairly thin at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio was the leader of the Wlieeler committee group ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Mr. Fuchs. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us, what Communist activity was engaged 
in by members of this cell within the Wheeler committee ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Well, the major responsibility, as I explained, was 
to get the ICC union active and ultimately to move it into the CIO. 
There was in all of these units a certain amount of indoctrination 
in Communist policies and philosophy, and efforts were made to in- 
sure the Daily Worker and other Commmiist publications being put 
in our hands. 

I think that the early part of this period would have been before the 
anti-Fascist movement gained very much headway, before there was 
much activity on the Spanish committee and things of that sort but 
at some time during this period I am sure efforts were made to involve 
the union in defense of Loyalist Spain and things of that sort. 

Mr. Arens. Did the same policy pertain to the Wheeler committee 
that pertained to your prior associations in the Communist cells, name- 
ly that the identity of the individuals within the cells was not to be 
made public? 

Mr. GoRHAM. That was a general rule, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you acquire information respecting comparable 
cells in other committees? 

Mr. Gorham. No ; I had no such knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Did you while you were in this cell, or in any of the 
Communist activities which you have thus far described, participate 
in any front work of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I am not sure as to chronology. Now, at one time or 
another I participated either personally, or through union organiza- 
tion having affiliated in various peace movements — whatever it was 
called — Committee for Peace and Freedom, or something like that, 
and contributed funds to the Loyal Bureau Medical for Loyalist 
Spain, and I may have attended meetings called by the Spanish com- 
mittee, and I am sure I did. At one time or another I did. There 
were demonstrations on behalf of Czechoslovakia when it was taken 
over by Hitler. I was also a member of the Washington Bookshop, 
too. 

Mr. Arens. Did the members of the staff of the Wlieeler commit- 
tee who were Communists participate in the preparation of reports for 
the committee? 



3130 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. GoRHAM. That was part of their official duties. Now, the only 
people who worked on it were the members of the committee's staff who 
were also members of the Communist unit, but they did not do such 
work as members of the Communist unit, to m,y knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Within tlie Communist unit, on the ^'\Tieeler commit- 
tee, did you have discussions and deteraiinations of policy with refer- 
ence to the activity or the path to be pursued by the Communists who' 
were on the AVlieeler committee? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, we did not. But that would have been absolute- 
ly unnecessary, because Mr. Fuchs was not only leader of the group 
but he also ranked both Mr. Koenigsberg and myself in the office. 

Mr. Arens. Did you take any instructions? 

Mr. GoRHAM. It would have been an unnecessary duplication. 

Mr. Arens. Did you take any particular instructions from Mr.- 
Fuchs or to your knowledge did he give any instructions to any em- 
ployee on the Wheeler committee who was a Communist with reference- 
to his work for the committee ? 

Mr. Gorham. Not so far as I know. 

Mr. Arens. Did the members of the staff of the Wheeler committee 
who were Communists have access to all committee information ? 

Mr. Gorham. I would assume so ; all members of the staff had access 
to all the information, as far as I know ; nothing was held confidential 
among the staff. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any confidential information of the Wheeler 
committee which was available to the staff and not available to the 
public at large? 

]\Ir. Gorham. Well, as you know from your own work here, sir, a 
congressional committee accumulates a large number of documents 
and other materials in connection with its proposed inquiries. It will 
select among those, those materials which will best develop the course 
of the committee's particular inquiry. We gathered hundreds of 
copies of letters and analyses of bookkeeping statements and so on, 
and we had file cabinets occupying a hearing room fully as big as 
this, all down one side. The committee worked for o years. 

Obviously, no committee attempts to put all of that material in the 
record, and there were many, many documents that were not put in 
the record. 

Mr, Arens. Do you have any information respecting the transmis- 
sion of an}^ information from the Wheeler committee or its files, into 
the channels of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gorham, Not so far as I know. I do not know that the work 
of the committee was of particular interest to the party as a matter 
of fact, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were there any other employees of the ^\nieeler com- 
mittee who subsequently became identified with the 'WHieeler com- 
mittee Communist group after this first period which we have been? 
discussing ? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, there was a Mr. Bernstein. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us liis full name. 

Mr. Gorham. Alfred Bernstein. 

Mr. Arens. Is that Alfred ? 

Mr. Gorham. Pie was called Al. He was a member of the com- 
mittee staff, and my recollection was that he was recruited into the 
Communist Party by Mr. Fuchs. I do not have a very distinct recol- 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3131 

lection of that, but that is my recollection, and I know that he worked 
with the Capitol Hill group. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word please, about the Capitol Hill group. 
What is the Capitol Hill group 'i 

Mr. GoRHAM. He worked in a local involving employees, mainly 
custodial employees up on Capitol Hill at the time. Before I left 
the Wheeler committee, for a brief period of time, there were 3 or 4 
people who were members of the Communist Party who met with us, 
the Wheeler committee group, in the same unit. 

Mr. Arens. Could you identify those people for us ? 

Mr. Gorham. I remember that there were 2 men, and 1 or 2 women, 
and of the men, I only remember the name of one, a Mr. Ogden Kelly, 
whom I believe was then employed by the Library of Congress. 

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us what was the reason for Mr. Kelly 
who was employed in the Library of Congress to be in a Communist 
Party session with you and your colleagues of the Wheeler com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Gorham. Well, they merged the two groups. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any concerted action between the Library of 
Congress cell and the "Wlieeler committee cell ? 

Mr. Gorham. No, there was not. 

Mr. Arens. How often did the cell have its meetings ? 

Mr. Gorham. I recollect an effort was made to have weekly meet- 
ings, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere were those meetings held ? 

Mr. Gorham. At people's homes, my own among others. 

Mr. Arens. Fuchs was the leader of this particular group ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Gorham. He was. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any other activity engaged in by this unit, 
that you think would be significant to report to this committee? 

Mr. Gorham. I do not know of any. As I explained, there was 
some part of meetings spent in the study of Communist economic 
theory, and political theory, and an attempt to discuss that. It was 
to understand the current position of the party as expressed in pub- 
lications or sometimes there would be points of emphasis as when 
the party started attempting to build the so-called united front, or 
anti-Fascist front, and it was discussed at some length, and indicated 
that that would be the major area of concentration and that we should 
through our personal activity and through new friends we had, union 
activities, to try to bring more people into this broad anti-Fascist 
group they were trying to develop. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information as to the fact that the 
members of the Communist cell on the Wheeler committee endeavored 
to influence the judgment, or opinion, or attitudes of other members 
of the staff in their staff work? 

Mr. Gorham. Sir, I would say without exception every member of 
the staff of the Wheeler committee attempted to influence every other 
member. It was myself included, and I do not think that was re- 
stricted to Communist Party membership. I do not feel, to give you 
a direct answer to your question, that Mr. Fuchs and Mr. Koenigsberg 
or myself exercised any extraordinary influence over the policies of 
the committee. I was a $2,000-a-year clerk at the time. 



3132 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the whereabouts- 
of any of these people on the Wheeler committee whom you have 
heretofore identified as members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Mr. Fuchs, of course, you know; he has appeared 
before the committee; and Mr. Olim was identified by the press as 
employed in Chicago until recently. Mr. Koenigsberg — I do not 
ki^ow — he went to Philadelphia with the SEC, and I do not know 
just wliat he is doing now. ]\Ir. Bernstein was employed by the United 
Federal Workers, and I think he had some private employment, and 
I do not know what his present activity is, and I do not know what 
Miss Sololf is presently doing. 

Mr. Arens. How about Mr. Ogden Kelly ? 

Mr. Goriiam. I had only a brief contact with him, and I do not 
know what happened to him. 

Mr. Arens. Now, give us again, please, the date on which your 
services with the Wheeler committee were terminated? 

Mr. GoRHAM. In either April or May of 1938. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly pick up the thread, then, of the story. You 
went from the Wheeler committee to where ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I was employed by the Brotherhood of Railroad 
Trainmen and as such, I was outside the Government, and I had 
no part in any Government unit. I had no official or regular Com- 
munist Party connection for a period of some months, during which 
I worked in Chicago, and I did not pay dues during that period, 
obviously, and when I came back here the only person I had any 
contact with then during those months who were party members 
were members of the open party. They were well known as such in 
Washington. There was a Mrs. Elizabeth Franklin, who was a mem- 
ber, and through her I met a Mr. Martin Chancey, who was then 
head of the Washington Communist Party, and who. when I returned 
to the Government, according to my recollection, advised me that a 
Mr. Mike Naigles, who was also employed by the SEC and who was 
well known to me from union work, was a Communist and would 
contact me, and bring me into a Communist unit at the SEC. 

Mr. Arens. Did he do so ? 

]Mr. GoRHAM. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. Arens. That was in what year? 

Mr. GoRHAM. That would also probably have been — wait a 
moment — I went with the SEC in the fall of 1938 and my recollection 
is there was a feeling that I needed a period of, I think, the word 
was sterilization, because of my open party associations, and it may 
very well liave been into 1939 before Mr. Naigles put me into a regular 
group. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify each person who to your certain knowl- 
edge was a member of the Communist cell with which you were iden- 
tified in SEC. 

Mr. GoRHAM. Mr. Koenigsberg, who had been at the Wheeler com- 
mittee was at the SEC at that time. 

Mr. Arens. What was he doing there? 

Mr. GoRiiAjM. He was an attorney, employed by the SEC, on the 
same monopoly study that I was employed on at that time. There was 
Mr. Naigles, and there was also 

Mr. Arens. Would vou pardon an interruption; what was Mr. 
Naigles' duty at the SEC? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3133 

Mr. GoRHAM. I do not know, I think that he was in the Trading 
and Exchange Division, but I do not recall what he did. I had little or 
no office contact with him. I had union contact with him, and he was 
the man who had got me to go in the Washington Bookshop which 
was before I had known him to be a party member. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have the name of another person who to your 
certain knowledge was a member of that Communist cell ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. There was a Mrs. Polly Vibber. There were others 
whose names I do not recall, and I think there were other women, 
and there may have been one other man at that time. Now, if I may 
take a moment to explain, the first group I was in, in SEC, was 
headed by Mr. Naigles, and then at a later date my recollection is 
that it was merged with a group from Howard University and still 
later there was some kind of reorganization in the Communist appa- 
ratus in Washington, and I was taken out, or I had no longer any 
contact with Mr. Naigles and Koenigsberg and others who remained 
in the same group. I will have to give you people as I remember 
them and not definitely say at which phase of the period they were in. 

Mr. Arens. Give us those names please, and if you would kindly do 
so, tell us from what university they came. 

Mr. GoRHAM. My recollection is that there were two people from 
Howard University, and a woman, a Negro woman who was a teacher 
in the Washington public schools. 

Mr. Arens. Give us their names. 

Mr. GoRHAM. I do not remember her name, or one of the men's 
name. The other was Mr. Doxe.y Wilkerson, and I believe he is well 
known to you. He was, I believe, in that same group that Mr. Naio;les 
was in, and I am not sure. The only other person I recall at that 
time was Mr. Thomas Cox, who was in the Oil and Gas Unit of the 
SEC. Then in the later group, after the reconstruction, there was 
Mr. Koenigsberg, and Mr. Wayne Ball, and his wife whom I had 
previously known, Miss Marvel Lockhart. 

Mr. Arens. Who was the leader of this last group ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I believe Mr. Ball was the leader of the group, sir, 
either Mr. Ball or Mr. Koenigsberg, and I think it was Mr. Ball. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word as to the function or activity of this 
group. 

Mr. GoRHAM. We are now in the period around 1940 or 1941, and 
this is a period of considerable change in Communist Party philos- 
ophy, and Communist Party line. The chief activity of the group 
other than some attempt to organize the activity of the members in 
the union work and I was not an active union member at that time, 
was devoted to some attempt at explanation of what the party posi- 
tion was. 

There was "The Yanks are not coming," and then "The Yanks nre 
not coming too late," and various other slogans of that kind. The 
chief effort was an attempt to explain just what it was all about, and 
that was also a period when I personally was in the process of breaking 
away from the party. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any noticeable influence or impact brought 
on the work of the Communists who were then engaged in SEC ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No; I think that I may have discussed during the 
earlier part of the period, that would be between 1938 and 1939, and 
1940, the work I was doing on the monopoly study but outside of Mr. 



3134 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Koenio-sberg nobody had any interest or knowledge of that, and I dealt 
with him officially. So, my answer would be "No" to your question. 

Mr. Arens. Was your separation from employment in the SEC vol- 
untary or involuntary? 

JNIr.^ GoRHAM. I transferred to OPA voluntarily ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What caused you to transfer ? 

Mr. Gorham. I transferred under the war transfer system, sir, and 
retained reinstatement rights. 

Mr. Arens. Did you then affiliate again with the Communist Party 
when you were with OPA? 

Mr, GoRHAM. I did not, and I broke my connections at that time. 

Mr. Arens. What precipitated your disassociation from the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. GoRHAJi. I had originally been somewhat disillusioned in the 
party's pretentions of so-called democratic decentralization, when I 
was suspended in what I thought was a rather undemocratic way, but 
about that period the party emerged as a significant leader in the anti- 
Fascist struggle in the thirties, with a period of united fronts and a 
period when many people were taking the same position as that being 
taken by the party. So I continued in the party up to the end of that 
phase. Now, I found, however, as I think any thinking man must 
have found, it very hard to understand the gyrations of the Commu- 
nist Party from 1939 through 19-12 unless the party could be regarded 
as simply a form of front organization for the Russian party, which 
was in a sense what it really operated as. In other words, it was per- 
fectly obvious in the rather clumsy attempts to change and to rational- 
ize the change in position as the world situation changed, that the 
American Communist Party did not have a policy of its own. I per- 
sonally became disappointed and quite disgusted with the explanations 
given me, and made up my mind to leave when the opportunity came to 
leave and I did so. I hesitated to make an abrupt break because I was 
not quite sure what might happen to me if I did. When the Securi- 
ties and Exchange Commission transferred to Philadelphia, it pro- 
vided me with an opportunity to make a break by refusing to be picked 
up again in another Communist group, and with some possibility that 
the action would not be identified by the party for what it was. 

Mr. Arens. Were you reluctant to have the Communist Party un- 
derstand that you did not want to affiliate with it? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. You will recall that I had been through one trial of 
my own on what I felt was contrived evidence, and this is a period 
when there had been trials in Russia, and I was not afraid for my 
life, and I do not want to make it sound melodramatic but I thought 
there was a very real possibility that action might be taken by the 
party to put information in the hands of people who frankly might 
make it difficult for me to maintain a job. There might be other 
retaliatory actions of that kind. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Gorham, this committee is interested, as are all 
good Americans, in routing out any Communist activity or Commu- 
nists or subversion in the Government. Therefore, it has an intense 
interest in the loyalty program. INIay I therefore ask if in the course 
of your employment by the Federal Government and your member- 
ship in the Communist Party, did you at any time fill out loyalty 
forms ? 

Mr. GoRiiAM. Yes, I did, sir. 



COMMXTNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3135 

Mr. Akens. Wliat did you say in the loyalty forms, if you recall, 
in response to the question as to whether or not you had ever been a 
member of an organization advocating the forceful overthrow of the 
Government of the United States ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I do not believe that question was originally asked. 
While I was still a member of the party it was not. I do know that 
on an investigation of people on the so-called Dies list in 1940 when 
I was still in the party, we were advised not to answ^er questions. 

Mr. Arens. Who advised you 'i 

Mr. GoRHAM. I suppose the leader of the particular unit I was in 
at the time, and I do not recall. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the Communist Party line to the comrades 
not to answer with reference to any party affiliations ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Yes, sir. Now, in loyalty investigations subsequent 
to my leaving the party, I could correctly state that I was not a party 
member, and I did not disclose my previous party affiliations. 

Mr. Arens. Were you subjected to an inquiry respecting any pre- 
vious affiliations with the Communist Party or an organization which 
would fit the description of the Communist Party? 

Mr. GoRHAM. Well, the inquiry was directed mainly at my mem- 
bership in front organizations, sir, and I admitted membership in 
them, but the direct question to answer it directly, of whether I had 
been a member, I denied membership, yes. 

Mr. Arens. This would conclude the staff interrogation of the wit- 
ness, and I respectfully suggest perhaps the chairman or some of the 
members may have some questions. 

Mr. Moulder. During the past 3 years have you been investigated 
concerning your past Communist Party affiliations? 

Mr. GoRHAM. I rather imagine that there has been an investigation, 
sir, and I do not lecall that I have been asked any questions in the 
last 5 years on that. 

Mr. Moulder. However, insofar as you know personally, none was 
ever conducted during the past 3 years concerning your Communist 
Party affiliation or activities ? 

Mr. GoRHAM. No, I would have I believe, say that all employees 
of the Government were investigated during the last 3 years at one 
time or another. I assume that I was, along with other people. 

The Chairjian. Mr. Gorham, I want to express to you the appre- 
ciation not only of this committee but of the American people for 
your contribution to the security of this Republic. I just a few days 
ago came back from Australia where I had an opportunity to discviss 
with some of the Australian sexiurity people the manner in which 
the Communists had infiltrated into the Government of Australia. 
It was disclosed by the defection of this Russian, Petrov. There were 
only a few in the Government, and deliberately, because the Commu- 
nists felt that to have more than a few active members in the Govern- 
ment might arouse suspicion. With the result that in the Department 
of External Affairs, which is comparable to our State Department, 
there was only one, but he was obtaining all sorts of inforuiation 
from employees and passing it on to the Soviet Embassy. 

The report that came from the Australian Commission disclosed 
very clearly that without some cooperation from people in the Govern- 
ment, either wittingly or otherwise, the espionage which is being 

70811— 56— pt. 3 3 



3136 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

conducted daily, no, hourly, by the Soviets, cannot succeed. What 
you have done here today has been to make the people aware of the- 
fact that a Government employee could aid the enemy. I know that 
it has taken a great deal of courage to do what you have done and I 
am sure that this conmiittee joins me in stating to you that in our 
judgment you are a great American. 

Mr. GoRTiAM. Thank you. 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess to meet at 1 : 30) 
this afternoon. 

(Whereupon at 12 o'clock p. m. a recess w-as taken until 1 : 30- 
p. m. the same day.) 

AFTERXOON SESSIOX Tl'ESDAY, EEURU'ARY 14, 19o6 

(Tlie following members of the conimittee were present: Repre- 
sentatives Walter (presiding) and Willis.) 

The Chair:\ian. The committee will be in order. 

Call your first witness, please. 

Mr. Arens. The first witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, is Mr. 
Arthur Stein. Will you kindly come forward, raise your right hand, 
and be sworn. 

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. S'lTiiisr. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR STEIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
VICTOR RABINOWITZ 

]\Ir. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Stein. My name is Arthur Stein. I live at 131 Westminster 
Road, Brooklyn,' N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. AVhat is your occuj^ation ? 

Mr. Stein. I am a construction consultant. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Stein, are you appearing today before the House 
Committee on Un-American Activities in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Ai'e you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Victor Rabinowitz, 25 Broad Street, New York. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been known by any name other than the 
name Arthur Stein? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Pursuant to which you were siibpenaed before this 
committee? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

INfr. Arens. Kindly tell us where you were born ? 

Mr. Stein. I was born in New York in 1008. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if 3^ou please, sir a brief resume of your edu- 
cational backcroimd. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3137 

Mr. Stein. I went to the public schools of New York and I am a, 
graduate of Columbia College in 19:29. 

jSlr. Arens. What degree do you hold from there? 

Mr. Stein. Bachelor of arts. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us a brief running account of the employ- 
ment which you have had since the termination of ,your formal educa- 
tion. 

Mr. Stein. 1930 was really the end of my educational period. I 
worked at the Allied Candy Stores Corp. in New York as controller 
for about a year or a year and a half. I worked at the National Bu- 
reau of Economic Eesearch, a privately endowed, nonpartisan research 
organization, for a year or so. 

Air. Arens. Where was that located? 

Mr. Stein. In New York. 

In 1934 I came to Washington and went to work for the National 
Kecovery Administration, the NRA. 

Mr, Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Stein. Statistician. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you engaged in the NRA? 

Mr. Stein. About a year, until it was declared unconstitutional, 
or shortly thereafter. 

Mr. Arexs, Then your next employment, if you please ? 

Mr. Stein. Then I worked for the WPA, the Works Progress or 
Work Projects Administration. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity and where 'i 

Mr. Stein. As a statistician and in Washington. 

Mr. Arens. During what period of time ? 

Mr. Stein. That would be about 1933 to 1939. 

Mr. Arens. "^^Hiat precipitated the discontinuance of your services 
there? 

Mr. Stein. I left voluntarily to work for the Federal Works Agen- 
cy. Some of the functions of the WPA were taken over by the 
Federal Works Agency. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you with the Federal Works Agency? 

Mr. Stein. About a year. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Stein. Statistician. 

Mr. Arens. lYliat was your next employment? 

Mr. Stein. With the War Production Board. That was in the 
year 1941, I guess, during that year, maybe a little longer. 

Mr. Stein. Economist or statistician. The terms were used inter- 
changeably. 

Mr. Arens. What caused the disassociation of yourself from that 
agency ? 

Mr. Stein. I left to become the secretary-treasurer of the United 
Federal Workers of America, a CIO union, with which I had pre- 
viously been associated on a voluntary basis. 

Mr. Arens. That was in what year ? 

Mr. Stein. I think in the very beginning of 1942. 

Mr. Arens. And your next employment? 

Mr. Stein. I was with the union which latei- merged with another 
union and changed its name to United Public Workers of Ajiierica, 
until, I think, 1949. 

INIr. Arens. In what city were you located ? 



3138 COMMUNIST ESrriLTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Stein. In Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Were you with the Unit^ed Public Workers until 1949 ? 

Mr. Stein. I believe so. 

Mr. Aeens. Tell us who was the president of that organization. 

Mr. Stein. Abram Flaxer, 

Mr. Akens. In what capacity did you work with the United Public 
Workers ? 

Mr. Stein. I was secretary -treasurer, and acting secretary-treasurer, 
I think. 

Mr. Arens. Let us move on to your next employment. 

Mr. Stein. The Chesapeake Construction Corp., which was a com- 
pany engaged in building and managing real estate. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere was that? 

Mr. Stein. In Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. And for how long ? 

Mr. Stein. About a year and a half, I think. 

Mr. Arens. Until about 1951, you would say? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly continue with your next employment ? 

Mr. Stein. Then I worked for a group of corporations. I don't 
remember all the names, but a group of people associated together 
under several names. One of them was Telegraph Hills, Inc., Dana 
Hills, Inc., 3 or 4, maybe 5 corporations, but I was the general manager 
of construction for this group. 

Mr. Arens. "\¥liat did they construct? 

Mr. Stein. Private homes. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Stein. In the Washington area, in and around this city. 

Mr. Arens. '\^nio was your immediate superior in that? 

Mr. Stein. I was the general manager of the outfit. 

Mr. Arens. To whom did you report? 

Mr. Stein. It was a group of investors. Mr. S. J. Eodman was an 
investor, I was a partial investor. And a man named Blumberg 
was an investor. 

Mr. Arens. Were Federal funds in any way involved in that con- 
struction project? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Federal loans ? 

Mr. Stein. No. Loans were made to the buyers of the homes, but 
we had nothing to do with that. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat was your next occupation ? 

Mr. Stein. Then I left Washington and moved to New York City. 

Mr. Arens. In what year? 

Mr. Stein. 1953. Since then I have been self-employed. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about that self -employment. 

Mr. Stein. I advise or work for people who are interested in certain 
types of construction activity in New York, rebuilding and remodel- 
ing homes. 

Mr. Arens. Before we proceed, I want to return for a moment to 
the United Public Workers of America. Wliile you were secretary- 
treasurer of the United Public Workers, did you have access to its 
membership records? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3139 

Mr. AiiENS. Who was your successor as secretary -treasurer ? 

Mr. Stein. I believe a Mr. Guinier. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Stein. No ; I believe in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Was Abram Flaxer the president ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Stein. In New York City. 

Mr. Arens. What was the total membership of the United Pub- 
lic Workers while you were secretary-treasurer ? 

Mr. Stein. Probably about 100,000. 

Mr. Arens. Where were the members of the United Public Work- 
ers employed ? 

Mr. Stein. There were some employees in the Federal Government. 
The majority were employees of State and local governments. 

Mr. Arens. How many were employed in the Federal Government? 

Mr. Stein. I would say about 25,000 at the maximum. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the person who first assisted you in the pro- 
curement of employment in the Federal Government ? 

Mr. Stein. Nobody. I got a letter from someone in the NRA ask- 
ing if I would be interested in working there, someone I never 
heard of. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection as to who that person was? 

Mr. Stein. No. It was some kind of official letter. I think it was 
because I was with the National Bureau of Economic Research. They 
may have written to others at that place, too. 

Mr. Arens. While you were employed in the NRA, did you have 
occasion to make the acquaintanceship of a man by the name of 
James E. Gorham ? 

Mr. Stein. I won't answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request the witness be 
directed to answer. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. Mr. Chairman, I am not willing to answer the question, 
and I am relying on the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

The Chairman. You say you are not willing. By that do you 
mean, "I refuse to answer the question" ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Stein, do you feel if you told this committee a 
truthful answer with reference to any alleged acquaintainceship with 
James E. Gorham that you would be supplying information which 
could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. I am relying on the fifth amendment which, as I recall 
it, states that no person may be compelled to testify against himself 
in any criminal proceeding. 

The Chairman. This is not a criminal proceeding. 

Mr. Stein. It may lead to a criminal proceeding. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, the courts have repeatedly said that the 
status of a man's mind is as much a fact as the status of his indiges- 
tion. Therefore, I propose to request again that this witness announce 
to the committee whether or not it is his honest judgment that if he 
gave a truthful answer to the question pertaining to any alleged ac- 
quaintanceship which he may have had with James E. Gorham, he feels 



3140 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

that answer would supply information which could be used against him 
in a criminal proceeding. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer. 

Mr. Stein. If I answered the question, I feel it might be used 
against me in a criminal proceeding. 

The Chairman. Therefore you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Stein, this morning Mr. Gorham stood up here 
after he had been sworn to tell the truth before a congressional com- 
mittee, and identified you as a person who, to his certain knowledge, 
had been a member of the Communist Party. Was he lying or was 
he telling the truth ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously given. 

Mr. Arens. My. Stein, have you ever known a man by the name 
of Herbert Fuchs ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee whether or not 
you knew Mr. Fuchs you would be supplving information which could 
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer as I gave before. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of an organization dedicated to 
the overthrow of the Government of the United States by force and 
violence ? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer, IMr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. For the same reason ? 

Mr. Stein. The same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever committed espionage against the United 
States Government ? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment in the NRA did 
you know an individual by the name of Henry Rhine? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Willis. "l^Hiat was the name of that individual ? 

Mr. Arens. R-h-i-n-e, sir. 

^Yhat was the nature of your acquaintanceship with Henry Rhine? 

Mr. Stein. We were both active in the union of Government em- 
ployees, the American Federation of Government Employees. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any acquaintanceship or activity with 
Henry Rhine other than tlie American Federation of Government 
Employees ? 

Mr. Stein. We knew each other personally. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any organization, entity or group 
in which Henry Rhine was an active participant? 

Mr. Stein. We belonged to the union together. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Henry Rhine was a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3141 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously given. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a man by the name of John Donovan ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that "question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee whether or not 
you knew a man by the name of John Donovan that that information 
could be used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer as before. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or do you feel that that information could 
be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Jessica Buck 
Rhine? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify that person. 

Mr. Stein. She was the wife of Henry Rhine. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not she is or was a member of 
the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mv. Arens. Did you ever belong to an organization of which Jessica 
Buck Rhine was a member ? 

Mr. Stein. American Federation of Government Employees. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only organization in which you and she 
had a coordinated interest ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us the names of all organizations you can recall of 
which you were a member or active participant while you were em- 
ployed by the United States Government in the National Recovery 
Administration. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any organizations of which you were a mem- 
ber or active participant while you were employed by the United States 
Government in NRA concerning which you can tell this committee 
without furnishing information that you feel could be used against 
you in a criminal prosecution ? 

Mr. Stein. A member of the American Federation of Government 
Employees. 

Mr. Arens. While you were employed by the Federal Government, 
were there any other organizations of which yoii were a member that 
you can disclose without furnishing information which could be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. WiELis. Mr. Chairman, I think he should be ordered to answer 
that question the way it was couched. 

The Chairman. I think the record is clear the way it stands. 

Mr. Arens. During the tenure of your service with NRA, were you 
connected with the American League for Peace and Democracy? 

(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer the question. 



3142 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you were an active participant in the American League 
for Peace and Democracy ? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. During the tenure of your service with NRA, were you 
a member or affiliated with the United Federal Workers of America? 
Mr. Stein. There was no such organization existing at that time. 
Mr. Arens. That came along later ? 
Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Were you subsequently affiliated with the United Fed- 
eral Workers of America ? 
Mr. Stein. Yes. 
Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 
Mr. Stein. As secretary -treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the organization which merged to form the 
United Public Workers under the leadership of Abram Flaxer? 
Mr. Stein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. If you please, sir, move to your next employment and 
activities which, for the present purpose we will describe as extra- 
curricular, in addition to regular duties within the Government which 
you have described. The next activity which you have heretofore 
described under oath is your employment with the WPA. That is 
correct, is it not ? During the course of your employment in the WPA 
did you have any contact or association with Edna Richter ? 
Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Edna Richter ? 

Mr. Stein. At that time she was a young lady who was an active 
member of the American Federation of Government Employees Union 
in the WPA. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know of any other organization or entity in 
which she was active? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee truthfully of 
any other activity to your certain knowledge in which Edna Richter 
was engaged you would be supplying information which could be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Stein. Mr. Chairman, I feel if I gave this information I would 
be giving information which might be used against me in a criminal 
proceeding. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know during the course of your employment or 
activity in WPA, a person by the name of Sidney Katz ? 
Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify Sidney Katz. 

Mr. Stein. He was also active in that same union at about the same 
time, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting any organization 
in which you and Sidney Katz had a mutual interest or activity other 
than your Government service ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 
Mr. Arens. Do you feel that you would be supplying information 
which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 
Mr. Stein. Yes, sir. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3143 

Mr. Arens. Did you know during the course of your WPA service 
in the Federal Government a person by the name of Bernard Green- 
berg? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify Bernard Greenberg. 

Mr. Stein. He is another member of that same union in the WPA. 

Mr. Arens. Was he active in any organization, entity, or group in 
the extracurricular field in which you were likewise identified ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

I will refuse to answer similar questions in connection with similar 
matters on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Marcel Kistin 
during your WPA service ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. He was a member of the union, too. 

Mr. Arens. Is that person in the same general category with refer- 
ence to any extracurricular activities, namely, that you cannot tell 
us about because you might be giving information which could be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Irving Richter ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify him. 

Mr. Stein. He was also a member of that union at that time, I 
believe. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he was in that extra- 
curricular category ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. May we move on, if you please, sir, to your next em- 
ployment or activity, namely, in the Federal Works Agency. Is that 
not correct ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Are there persons who were active with you in FWA 
who likewise were in this extracurricular category which we have 
been describing? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. That is a general question. I prefer to be asked a more 
specific question. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us then if you please, sir, if there were any persons 
while you were employed in FWA who, likewise were employed in 
FWA, who were members of an organization concerning which you 
cannot tell this committee without disclosing information which could 
be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. I invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, is it true that if you told this committee 
the truth respecting associations and memberships which you had 
with other people in an organization while you were an employee of 
the Federal Government — m the FWA — you would be disclosing in- 
formation which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 
■ Is that correct ? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer as previously given. 

Mr. Arens. Your Federal service record, Mr. Stein, reveals that on 
March 3, 1941, there was a termination of your position as a project 
analyst at the Federal Works Agency, and that on March 4, 1941, you 
were appointed a statistician, grade P^ (probational appointment) 



3144 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

with the Federal Works Agency, in the Office of the Administrator, 
Is that correct ? 

Mr. Stein. I am willing to believe it is correct. I don't have that 
exact information. 

Mr. Arens. Who was responsible for your appointment to this 
position ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't understand the question. I went over there and 
asked for a job and got one. I can tell you who I worked for. 

Mr. Arens. Whom did you see to get the job? 

Mr. Stein. I must have seen the men who hired me, who were my 
supervisors. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see a man by the name of Irving Kaplan ? 

Mr. Stein. To get a job at the Federal Works Agency ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on the 
same grounds as previously given. 

The Chairman. Just a minute. I direct you to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. The fact is that Irving Kaplan was instrumental in 
your employment in FWA ; was he not ? 

Mr. Stein. Fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee the truth re- 
specting any activities of Ii-ving Kaplan toward the procurement of 
employment for you in the FWA, you would be giving information 
whicli could be used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

INIr. Stein. I give the same answer as I have previously given to 
the same question. 

Mr. Arens. I think the record is abundantly replete with instances, 
JNIr. Chairman, of identification of Irving Kaplan as a member of the 
Communist underground movement in the United States Govern- 
ment. I only make that reference so the committee will bear in mind 
who Irving Kaplan was. 

Mr. Stein, I lay before you a photostatic copy of an interoffice 
memorandum dated January 29, 1941, on the letterhead of the Federal 
Works Agency, Washington, in which there is an allusion to Mr. 
Irving Kaplan, and ask you if you have ever seen that memorandum 
before. 

Mr. Stein. I never saw it. 

(The following members of the committee were present: Repre- 
sentatives Walter, Doyle, Frazier, and Willis.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I should like to read the contents of 
this interoffice memorandum which came to the committee in due 
course of its activities and has been in the custody of the committee for 
some period of time. It is an interoffice memorandum dated Janu- 
ary 29, 1941, to Mr. C. Osthagen from Foster Adams, and the subject 
is Arthur Stein. The body of the inemorandum is as follows : 

Arthur Stein was in this morning talking with me and with Mrs. Craig. After 
some discussion he decided to fill out the form furnished him by Mrs. Craig 
and to bring it in and talk with you about certain problems he feels he has in 
connection with civil service. 

Irving Kaplan has a very natural interest in seeing a successful solution to 
these problems and I shall appreciate your talking with him and with me as 
soon as possible after you have talked with Arthur Stein. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3145, 

Mr. Stein, do you have a recollection of certain problems which 
were to be the subject of these conversations alluded to in this inter- 
office memorandum ? 

Mr. Stein. I am sorry, I have no recollection of any such event. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of conversations with 
Irving Kaplan respecting prospective employment by you in the 
FWA? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer the question on the gromids pre- 
viously given. 

Mr. Arens. In your employment in WPB, the War Production 
Board, did you there have any acquaintanceships in an organization 
or unit or entity concerning which you cannot tell this committee 
without disclosing facts which could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds 
previously given. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that while at the War Production Board you were an active 
member of a Communist Party cell. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. While you were an employee of the Federal Govern- 
ment in the War Production Board, were you a member of an organi- 
zation dedicated to the overthrow of the Constitution of the United 
States? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. On March 4, 1941, Mr. Stein, wdiile you were with the 
Federal Works Agency, you were given a probational appointment 
as a statistician ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Stein. If that is the information you have, I assume it to be 
coi-rect. 

Mr. Arens. Who was responsible for jour appointment as a statis- 
tician in this probational-appointment status? 

Mr. Stein. Wliich agency is that? 

Mr. Arens. FWA. 

Mr. Stein. I was under the impression and stated that I thought I 
had been at the Federal Works Agency in 1940. I may be incorrect in 
my recollection of that, and your records I have no reason to doubt are 
more accurate. 

Mr. Arens. Irrespective of the date, who was responsible for your 
appointment ? 

Mr. Stein. To the Federal Works Agency ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Stein. I don't know. I applied for a job and got it. 

Mr. Arens. To whom did you apply ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. During this period were you acquainted with Edward J. 
Fitzgerald? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee the facts with 
respect to any activity or acquaintanceship which you had with Ed- 
ward J. Fitzgerald you would be furnishing information which coulcj 
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 



3146 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Stein. If I answered that question I believe that that informa- 
tion could be used against me in a criminal proceeding. 

Mr. Arens. Do you now know that Edward J. Fitzgerald has been 
publicly identified before this committee as a member of a Communist 
underground cell in Washington ? 

Mr. Stein. 1 refuse to answer the question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that he be ordered 
and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you, Mr. Stein, a photostatic copy of an 
interoffice memorandum which came to the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities in regular course of its investigations dated 
November 21, 1941, with respect to certain matters, and ask if you have 
ever seen this interoffice memorandum before ? 

Mr. Stein. No ; I have never seen it. 

Mr. Arens. The interoffice memorandum obviously from its con- 
tents pertains to certain information being available regarding Fitz- 
gerald and Arthur Stein ; does it not ? 

Mr. Stein. It says what it says. 

Mr. Arens. Can you explain to this committee the content of this 
memorandum linking you and Edward J. Fitzgerald as probational 
appointees ? 

Mr. Stein. I can't explain anything about that memorandum. I 
have never seen it before and I don't know anything about it. 

Mr. Arens. Was the other person whose name appears on this 
memorandum a coemployee of yours while you were with the FAVA ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer any questions about him, on the same 
grounds. 

The Chairman. By "him" do you mean Fitzgerald ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Your next employment was with the United Federal 
Workers of America. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes ; United Federal Workers of America, first. 

Mr. Arens. And subsequently the United Public Workers of Amer- 
ica. You have already told this committee in the course of your testi- 
mony that Mr. Abram Flaxer was head of the United Public Workers 
of America. Is that correct? 

Mr. Stein. Correct. 

Mr. Arens. Was he your immediate superior? 

Mr. Stein. In a sense, since he was president of the union. We 
were each elected independently. 

Mr. Arens. You reported to him, however, did you not ? 

Mr. Stein. In a manner of speaking, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where the records are at the present time 
of the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Stein. I have no idea whether they exist or where they are. 

Mr. Arens. Did the United Public Workers of America have shop 
stewards or supervisors in those Federal agencies in which there were 
members ? 

Mr. Stein. Did they have shop stewards ? Yes, in some cases. 

Mr. Arens. Who designated those shop stewards ? 

Mr. Stein. The members of the union elected them. 

Mr. Arens. Were they responsible to Flaxer ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3147 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. What supervision did Flaxer have over the shop 
stewards ? 

Mr. Stein. No direct supervision. The shop stewards are part of 
a local union and reported to the officers of that local union. 

Mr. Arens. What was the income of the United Public Workers 
of America from dues? 

Mr. Stein. I would guess in the neighborhood of $40,000 a year. 
Mr. Arens. Was Abram Flaxer a member of the Communist Party? 
Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that Abram Flaxer was a member of the Communist Party 
while he was president of tlie United Public Workers of America. 

Mr .Stein. I have already refused to answer the question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Ewart G. Guinier, who was your successor as secretary- 
treasurer, was a member of the Communist Party, was he not ? 
Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer the question on the same grounds. 
Mr. Arens. Was there any activity which you were engaged in with 
Flaxer and with Guinier while you were secretary-treasurer of the 
United Public Workers of America concerning which you cannot tell 
this committee for fear that it could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer, on the same grounds. 
Mr. Arens. In what agencies of the Federal Government did the 
United Public Workers of America have members? 

Mr. Stein. A great many agencies, almost in every one, I suppose. 
Mr. Arens. What were the principal agencies in which they had 
their greatest strength? 

Mr. Stein. It is hard to say. It was distributed all over the Gov- 
ernment and throughout the country. It is difficult to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Did they have strength in the Labor Department ? 
Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What was the total membership in the Labor Depart- 
ment ? 

Mr. Stein. I can't recall. 

Mr. Arens. What was the total membership in the Federal Govern- 
ment ? 

Mr. Stein. A peak of about 25,000. 
Mr. Arens. Where were the other members ? 
Mr. Stein. State and local governments throughout the country. 
Mr. Arens. Was the United Public Workers of America interlocked 
in any respect with any other organization, entity, or group ? 
Mr. Stein. The CIO. It was a member of the CIO. 
Mr. Arens. Was the United Public Workers of America affiliated 
with any other organization besides the CIO ? 
Mr. Stein, Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Arens. Did the leadership of the United Public Workers of 
America have an allegiance, connection, or responsibility to any or- 
ganization other than the CIO? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 
Mr. Arens. In other words, if you told this committee of the Con- 
gress of the United States whether or not the leadership of this union 



3148 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

with 25,000 members in the Federal Government had an allegiance 
or responsibility to some organization you can't tell us about, that 
would furnish information which could be used against you in a 
criminal prosecution; is that correct? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Stein. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that the ITnited Public Workers of America was controlled 
lock, stock, and barrel by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Now your next activit}' or employment was with this 
construction company; is that correct? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Beginning in 1949? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Were there any persons identified with you in this 
Chesapeake Construction Corp. concerning whom you cannot tell us 
for fear that you would be supplying information which could be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent have Federal funds been utilized in the 
work of the Chesapeake Construction Corp. or in the properties which 
were constructed by the Chesapeake Construction Corp. ? 

]\Ir. Stein. I believe that prior to my coming to work for it they 
had received a loan guaranteed by the Federal Housing Adminis- 
tration. 

Mr. Arens. "\Y1io applied for that loan ? 

Mr. Stein. I assume the corporation did through its then officers. 

Mr. Arens. Did you hold an office in the corporation? 

Mr. Stein. I did subsequently, but not at the time of receiving the 
loan. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign any documents in order to procure the 
loan from the Federal Government ? 

Mr. Stein. I may have signed some documents later on ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. What would be the nature of the documents which you 
did sign? 

Mr. Stein. I was employed by the company when the balance of 
the loan was paid, and I may have signed at that time some document. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign any documents while you were with the 
construction company in which you made any representation to any 
allegiance or lack of allegiance which you may have had toward the 
Government of the United States? 
Mr. Stein. I don't believe so. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment by the Federal 
Government in the various agencies to which we have been alluding, 
did you at any time sign any document bearing upon your loyalty 
toward the Government of the ITnited States or your ]iast membership 
in any organization dedicated to the overthrow of the Government 
of the United States? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the simple question as to whether 
or not he signed any documents. 



t 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3149 

The Chairman. Yes ; you are directed to answer that question. 
Mr. Stein. I must refuse to answer on .the grounds of the fifth 
amendment, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told tliis committee the truth as to 
whether or not you signed certain documents bearing upon your 
loyalty to the Government of the United States while you were draw- 
ing pay from the Government of the United States as an employee, 
you would be fui-nishing information which could be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. I give the same answ^er as I have previously given to 
the same question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member or officer of the Pro- 
gressive Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. State the circumstances and the dates, if you please, sir. 

Mr. Stein. I was cliairman of the Progressive Party of the District 
of Columbia about 1951 and 1952. I am not exactly sure of the dates. 

Mr. Arens. Tell the committee who invited you to identify your- 
self with the Progressive Party. 

Mr. Stein. Nobody. I did it voluntarily. 

Mr. Arens. Were you, at the same time you were chairman of the 
Progressive Party of the District of Columbia, also identified with 
another organization which has a title at least of a political party ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't understand that question. 

Mr. Arens. Let us try it a bit differently. AYliile you were a leader 
of the Progressive Party of the District of Cohmibia were you like- 
wise identified with an organization which has used the title of a 
political party? 

Mr. Stein. I still don't understand the question. 

Mr. Arens. While you were connected with the Progresive Party 
were you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that C)[uestion on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that while you were an officer of the Progressive Party of the 
District of Columbia you were an active, hard-core member of the 
Communist Party of the United States ? 

Mr. Stein. I have previously refused to answer the same question 
and I have given the grounds for my refusal. 

The Chairman. And you refuse to answer it now? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who were your colleagues and fellow officers in the 
Progressive Party of the District of Columbia ? 

JNIr. Stein. The executive secretary during this period was Ger- 
trude Evans. 

Mr. Arens. Gertrude Evans has been identified publicly as a 
member of the Communist Party, has she not ? 

Mr. Stein. I am not sure. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, was she a member of thc^ Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You have answered the question as to whether or 
not you knew her. 

Mr. Stein. Yes ; I knew her. 



3150 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Wlio else was identified with you in an official capacity 
with the Progressive Party ? Who was vice chairman ? 

Mr. Stein. I am really trying to recall. 

Mr. Arens. Sally Peek? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us about Sally Peek. Wlio was she ? 

Mr. Si"EiN. As you said, she was vice chairman of the Progressive 
Party. I think she was a waitress, 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything else you know about her ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't know what kind of information you are seeking. 

Mr. Arens. You are before the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities. Do you know of any activities in which Sally Peek may 
have been engaged which were detrimental to the security and interests 
of this Nation ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer this question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that Sally Peek was likewise a hard-core member of the Com- 
munist Party while she was vice chairman of the Progressive Party 
of the District of Columbia. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer, the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Who were some of the other officers of the Progressive 
Party of the District of Columbia while you were the chairman or 
its head ? 

Mr. Stein. You seem to have a list. Perhaps it would help me if you 
read from the list because my memory is not too good on this. 

Mr. Arens. Was the Progressive Party of the District of Columbia 
while you were chairman responsible directly or indirectly to any 
other entity, group, or organization ? 

Mr. Stein. No. It was affiliated with the national Progressive 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did it have an affiliation with any organization dedi- 
cated to the violent overthrow of the Government of the United States ? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of any organization dedi- 
cated to the violent overthrow of the Government of the United States ? 

Mr. Stein. I have already refused to answer that question pre- 
viously and have given the grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a person by the name of Lillian Clott who was 
identified with the Progressive Party of the District of Columbia 
while you were the chairman ? 

Mr. Stein. I believe she was a member of it ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not she has served in the 
Communist apparatus ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. You know, as a fact, do you not, that she is and has been 
a hard-core member of the Communist Party and has been so publicly 
identified ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of your experience in the last 
generation or so engaged in some professional activities, teaching 
and instructing ? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified as an instructor with 
the Workers School in New York City ? 



COMMXINIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3151 

Mr. Stein. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know an Arthur Stein who has been so identi- 
fied with that Workers School ? 

Mr. Stein. No. You understand that I lived in Washington from 
1934 to 1953, so this would have to be a different Stein, as far as I am 
concerned. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been identified with the National Federation 
for Constitutional Liberties? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously given. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you have been so identified with the National Federation 
of Constitutional Liberties, and while you were engaged in employ- 
ment by the United States Government. 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer. 

The Chairman. Is that organization still in existence? 

Mr. Arens. I believe, Mr. Chairman, that organization has since 
been merged with some other organization and lost its identity as a 
separate entity. 

The Chairman. It was a Communist front ? , 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir; as of 1945. 

Were you identified at any time with the Washington Committee for 
Democratic Action ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you identified at any time with the National 
Council of Veterans' Administration Employees (affiliated with the 
United Public Workers, CIO ) ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't recall ever having heard of this organization. 

Mr. Arens. How about the World Peace Appeal. Have you been 
identified with that ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that to do so would provide information 
which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

The Chairman. Am I to gather from that that this World Peace 
Appeal organization is an organization of such nature that if you 
belonged to it you might be prosecuted criminally for being a member ? 

Mr. Stein. Well, I have some reason to believe that this organiza- 
tion was on the Attorney General's list of front organizations. 

The Chairman. Front organizations? 

Mr. Stein. Whatever his list is. It is a bad list as far as I am 
concerned. 

The Chairman. It is a bad list? It is a good list of bad organi- 
zations. 

Mr. Stein. Whichever way you want to put it. It is a bad list of 
good organizations according to some. 

Mr. Arens. You are not suggesting that the World Peace Appeal 
is a good organization ; are you ? 

Mr. Stein. Fifth amendment, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. The American Peace Crusade — have you ever been iden- 
tified with that? 

Mr. Stein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. How about the Marian Anderson Citizens Committee ? 

70811— 56— pt. 3 4 



3152 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Stein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know any person presently in the Federal Gov- 
ernment who, if you told us w^hat you know about him, would furnish 
information which could be used in a criminal prosecution of you? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken an oath of allegiance to the United 
States Govermnent? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. At the time you took that oath of allegiance to the 
United States Govermnent, were you a member of an organization 
dedicated to the destruction of the United States Government and 
its institutions by force and violence ? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer — fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this con- 
cludes the stall' inquiry of this particular witness. 

The Chairman. Mr. Doyle, have you any questions? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Willis. No questions. 

The Chairman. %liere are no further questions. The witness is 
excused, and we will take a 10-miniite break at this point. 
• (Brief recess.) 

The Chairman. The committee will please come to order. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, sir, is Mr. Myer H. 
Naigles, N-a-i-g-1-e-s. 

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, Mr. Naigles. Do 
you swear the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Naigles. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MYER HAREY NAIGLES, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, LEONARD B. BOUDIN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and 
occupation. 

Mr. Naigles. Myer Harry Naigles, 48 Seneca Avenue, Tuckahoe, 
N. Y. I am self-employed. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Naigles. I manufacture swimming pool equipment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Naigles, will you kindly keep your voice up so we 
can hear you a little better. 

Mr. Naigles. I will try. 

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-Ameri- 
can Acti\'ities? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel identify himself? 

Mr. BouDiN. Leonard J^. Boudin, 25 Broad Street, New York. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Naigles, have you ever been known by any name 
other than Myer H. Naigles? 

Mr. Naigles. I don't believe so. 

Mr. Arens, Have you been known at any time under a nickname 
of "Mike"' or anything of that character ? 



■COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3153 

Mr. Naigles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Would you explain that for us, please? 

Mr. Naigles. JMany of my friends call me "Mike." 

Mr. Arens. "Mike" in place of Myer ? 
. Mr. Naigles. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Where wei-e you born and when, please, sir ? 

Mr. Naigles. Boston, Mass., June 29, 1899. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, a thumbnail sketch of your 
early life and your education. 

Mr. Naigles. I attended the public schools of l>oston, Mass., at- 
tended Massachusetts Institute of Technology, graduated, and then 
later in the thirties when working for the Government I attended 
the Department of Agriculture Graduate School. 

Mr. Arens. Did you graduate from that school i 

Mr. Naigles. I don't believe the school actually matriculated its 
students. 

Mr. Arens, As of when did you complete your formal education ? 

Mr. Naigles. Including the Department of Agriculture ? 

Mr. Arens. Let's omit the Department of Agriculture for the mo- 
ment. 

Mr. Naigles. 1921. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly truce in sketch form for us the employment in 
which you have engaged since 1921. 

Mr. Naigles. Upon graduation I had employment with the Western 
Electric Co. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Naigles. Telephone installation. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliere was that ? 

Mr. Naigles, That was in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did vou engage in that activ- 
ity? 

Mr. Naigijss. About a year and a half. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly continue in the same vein and trace your em- 
ployment. 

Mr. Naigles. I then became a salesman in the garment industry 
for another year and a half. 

Mr, Arens. Was that in New York City ? 

Mr, Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. At what period of time have we arrived now — about 
1924? 

Mr. Naigles. About then. 

^•Ir. Arens. Please continue. 

Mr, Naigles. Then I returned to Boston and was self-employed, a 
small merchant in the jewelry business until 1929. 

The Chairman. 1929 ? 

Mr. Naigles. 1929. 

Mr. Arens, Please continue. 

Mr, Naigles, Then I became the assistant to the manager of an 
iron and metal company in Springfield, Mass. 

Mr. Arens, Was that 1930 or 1929 ? 

Mr. Naigles. 1929 into 1930. 

Mr. Arens. Continue please. 

Mr, Naigles, Then I worked for a raw-silk company, in New York. 

Mr. Arens. When was that, please, sir ? 



3154 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Naigles. About 1930 and 1931. Then I was unemployed until 
I came to work for the Government in the summer of 1934. 

Mr. Arens. For what period of time were you unemployed ? 

Mr. Naigles. I would say a couple of years. 

The Chairman. What was this school in the Agriculture Depart- 
ment? 

Mr. Naigles. The Department of Agriculture gave various sta- 
tistics and economics courses at very reasonable cost, and I took sev- 
eral courses there over 2 or 3 years. 

Mr. Arens. In 1934 you entered the Federal service ? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity? 

Mr. Naigles. As a statistician. 

Mr. Arens. In what agency? 

Mr. Naigles. Securities and Exchange Commission. 

Mr. Arnes. Wlio, if anyone, assisted you in procurement of that 
employment ? 

Mr. Naigles. My Senator at the time was David I. Walsh, and his 
secretary was George Feldman, if I remember correctly. I applied 
to them to ask them to see if they could not get me a job, and they 
suggested that I go over to the Securities and Exchange Commission. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at that time know anyone in the Securities and 
Exchange Commission ? 

Mr. Naigles. Not then. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you employed by the Securities and 
Exchange Commission ? 

Mr. Naigles. From 1934 until late spring of 1940. Except for a 
period of a couple of weeks in 1939 when I worked for the War 
Department. 

Mr. Arens. In 1939 you were in the War Department? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Without getting into any details as we go along, just 
complete the chronology, if you please, sir. I take it then in 1940 your 
services were discontinued in the SEC ; is that right ? 

Mr. Naigles. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. What precipitated that? 

Mr. Naigles. My supervisor. Dr. Davenport, at the time was moving 
over to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and invited me to come with 
him. 

Mr. Arens. Trace your employment in chronological order. 

Mr. Naigles. From that time until the fall of 1944 I was with the 
Bureau of Labor Statistics. Then I transferred to the War Shipping 
Administration. 

Mr. Arens. Was that 1944? 

Mr. Naigles. The fall of 1944. I went with the War Shipping 
Administration 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity, please, sir? 

Mr. Naigles. Also as a statistician. I was with them until the 
spring of 1946, when I left the Government. 

Mr. Arens. Since 1946, give us a brief account of your activities. 

Mr. Naigles. I was engaged by a textile firm in New York City until 
the fall of 1947, and by a firm manufacturing swimming pool sup- 
plies until I went in for myself. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3155 

Mr. Arens. What precipitated your disassociation from the Fed- 
eral Government in 1946 ? 

Mr. Naigles. The war had ended and I had suffered a tragedy in 
my family and we wanted to get away from Washington. 

Mr. Arens. Let us revert to the first of your chronology, if you 
please. Going back to 1934, until 1939, when you went into the War 
Department, may I ask you if you knew certain people in the SEC. 
Did you know a man by the name of James E. Gorham, while you were 
intlieSEC? 

Mr. Naigles. I should like to exercise my privilege under the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution. 

The Chairman. You said, "I should like to." By that you mean 
*'I do exercise the privilege" ? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee whether or not 
you knew a man by the name of James Gorham you would be supply- 
ing information which could be used against you in a criminal pro- 
ceeding ? 

Mr. Naigles. I stand on the answer that I gave you. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told this committee — that fact — 
whether or not you knew James Gorham, you would be supplying 
information which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Naigles. I still stand on my answer. 

Mr. Arens. I am not asking you whether or not you knew James 
E. Gorham. I am asking whether or not you feel that any knowledge 
you may have possessed respecting James Gorham could be used in a 
criminal proceeding against you. 

Mr. Naigles. I stand on my answer, which says that a witness may 
not be compelled to testify against himself. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you did give us the answer to the prin- 
cipal question you would be testifying against yourself ? 

Mr. Naigles. I have given the answer. 

Mr. Arens. Let's get the record straight. Do you feel if you gave 
this committee information respecting James Gorham and any associa- 
tion or knowledge you may have had with respect to him, you would 
be supplying information which could be used against you in a crimi- 
nal proceeding? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

The Chairman. We are not asking you about any activities of yours. 

Mr. Arens. Wliile you were in the SEC did you belong to any 
organization which, if you told this committee about, would supply 
information which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Naigles. I plead my privilege under tlie fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any organization which, if you told 
this committee about, you think you probably could be prosecuted 
criminally for it ? 

Mr. Naigles. May I consult my counsel ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. May I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Naigles, while you were in the SEC did you belong 
to certain organizations ? 

Mr. Naigles. I wish to exercise my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment of the Constitution. 



3156 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. If you told this committee the name of any organiza- 
tions to whicli you belonged while you ^yel■e in SEC, do you feel that 
that information could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. Are there any organizations, with which you were iden- 
tified while you were employed in SEC, concerning which you could 
tell the committee without disclosing information which could be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Naigles. May I have that question read back to me? 

Mr. Arens. The essence of the question is this : You have told this 
committee that there are organizations concerning which you cannot 
tell us because to do so would supply information which could be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding. That is correct, is it not? 
You have told us that. 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Arens, Are there any organizations with whicli you w^ere iden- 
tified while you were in SEC conceT-ning which you can tell us with- 
out disclosing information which could be used against you in a crimi- 
nal proceeding? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigees. I decline to answer on the grounds that the answer 
may tend to incriminate me, as provided in the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution. 

Mr. Arexs. ]Mr. Chairman, I respectf\illy suggest that the witness 
be directed to answer. 

The Chairman. I direct the witness to answer that question. 

;Mr. BouDiN. Repeat the question. 

Mr. Arens. I want to be sure the witness understands it : 

~\Vere you a member, while with the SEC, of any lodge or club other 
than organizations of, we will say, the "sensitive variety" ? 

Mr. Naigles. May I consult my counsel ? 

The Chairman. Certainly. 

Did you belong to the Elks Club ? 

Mr. Naigles. No, sir. 

Mr. BouDiN. Can you be more specific? 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any labor organizations or office 
workers unions while you were in SEC? I trace the relevancy of 
this because a previous witness has testified with respect to the exist- 
ence of a United Public Workers organization which had many thou- 
sands of members in the Federal Government. I am now asking you if 
you belonged to any organizations other than this "sensitive organ- 
ization" that we are shying away from at the moment concerning 
which you can tell the committee. 

Mr. Naigles. I decline to answer on the grounds provided in the 
fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Yes, I direct you to answer that question. 

Did you belong to the Rotary Club, Mr. Naigles ? 

Mr. Naigles. May I consult with counsel? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. You certainly don't need legal counsel to answer 
the question whether or not you belong to the Rotary Club, do you ? 

Mr. Naigles. I did belong to the American Legion. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3157 

Mr. Arexs. Did you belong to the American Legion during this 
period which we have been discussing in which you hnd yourself in a 
situation that you can't tell this committee about certain activities and 
associations ? 

Mr. Naigles. Can you be more specific as to dates ? 

Mr. Arens. You be specific as to dates. It is while you were with 
SEC. 

Mr. Naigles. No, I did not belong to the American Legion while I 
was with the SEC. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to the American Legion at any time dur- 
ing which you were also identified with a group or organizations con- 
cerning whicli you cannot tell this committee for fear of giving infor- 
mation which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. BouDix. Mr. Chairman, I don't understand the question. It is 
a very involved one. 

Mr, Arens. We will start over. 

Mr. BouDiN. The witness answered your question. 

Mr. Arens. You have testified here, Mr. Witness, that while you 
were employed at the SEC — you have placed yourself in this position, 
that you cannot tell this committee about membership activity or as- 
sociation with a certain organization because to do so would give infor- 
mation which could be used in a criminal proceeding. Isn't that true? 

]Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. That is tlie status of this record. Now, tell us if during 
that period of time which we are now discussing, you were likewise 
identified with the American Legion simultaneously, at the same time. 

Mr. Naigles. I believe so. If I understand your question, I think 
the answer is yes. 

Mr. Arens. What post, office, or position did you hold in the Ameri- 
can Legion ? 

Mr. Naigles. I was a member of post 42 at the Labor Department 
and also a member of the district committee, 

Mr. Arens. Of the American Legion ? 

Mr. Naigles. District Department of the American Legion. 

Mr. Arens. Have you maintained your membership in good stand- 
ing in tlie American Legion? 

Mr. Naigles. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. TYlien did you disassociate yourself or become disasso- 
ciated from the American Legion ? 

Mr. Naigles. When I left Washington. 

Mr. Arens, Was it a voluntary or involuntary disassociation? 

Mr. Naigles. Voluntary. 

Mr, Arens, While you were in the American Legion did you engage 
in any activities at the behest, instigation, or direction of any organi- 
zation concerning which you cannot tell this committee for fear of 
disclosing information which could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding? 

Mr, BouDiN. Mr, Chairman, may I suggest that these questions are 
of a very general character calling really for legal conclusions, I 
never heard questions like this put in these committee hearings. They 
are quite complicated. 

The Chairman. lYliether you heard it or not, of course, makes no 
difference. 

Mr. BouDiN. I was merely indicating the problem. Could we have 
the question repeated ? 



3158 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

The Chairman. Yes. 

(The reporter read from his notes as requested.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. I plead my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, if you told this committee about activi- 
ties in which you were engaged while you were a member of the Amer- 
ican Legion, you would be furnishing information which could be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding; is that correct? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were any of those activities in connection with the 
American Legion and its program or functions? 

Mr. Naigles. I plead my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in the SEC did you know an individual 
by the name of Samuel Koenigsberg? 

Mr. Naigles. I plead the privilege under the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. May I suggest that instead of plead, you don't 
plead in a matter of this sort, you invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Naigles. Thank you. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know an individual by the name of Doxey 
Wilkerson? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Martin 
Chancey ? 

Mr. Naigles. T invoke the privilege. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know an individual by the name of Tom Cox? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the names of some of your associates in your 
work while you were in the SEC. 

Mr. Naigles. In the beginning my supervisor was a man by the 
name of Dr. Paul P. Gourrich, G-o-u-r-r-i-c-h. T^ater I worked for Dr. 
Davenport. I worked with Dr. Davenport until 1944. During that 
period my more immediate supervisor was a man by the name of 
Byer, Herman Byer, B-y-e-r. Then I left to go to the Bureau of 
Labor Statistics. 

Mr. Arens. Keep your voice up, please, Mr. Naigles. We are hav- 
ing difficulty hearing you. 

Mr. Naigles. When I joined the War Shipping Administration my 
immediate supervisor was a man by the name of Howard Hyde, 
H-y-d-e. 

Mr. Arens. I want to stay for the moment, if you please, sir, 
on SEC until we conclude with that. 

Were you head of any group or organization within the SEC while 
you were employed there? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affinn or deny 
the fact, that you were head of a Communist Party cell in the SEC 
while you were engaged there as an employee of the Federal Govern- 
ment. 

Mr. Naigles. I stand on my answer, sir. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in the SEC were you in any respect 
instrumental in engaging any person in employment with the SEC, 
recommending people for employment, assisting people in procuring 
employment ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3159 

Mr. Naigles. I don't recall any incidents. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment with the SEC at the instiga- 
tion, direction or su<2j^estion of any |)erson who was known by you 
to have been a member of the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Naigles. Would you repeat that again, please? 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment with the SEC directly or indi- 
rectly caused, promoted, or suggested by any person who was known 
by you to have been affiliated witli the Conmmnist cons[)iracy? 

Mr. Naigles. None that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your transfer to the War Department in 
1939? 

Mr. Naigles. I came to learn of an opening there that meant ad- 
vancement for me. 

Mr. Arens. Did any Communist have any partici]:)ation directly 
or indirectly, in your transfer to the War Department? 

Mr. Naigles. None that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, sir. You were describing how 
you happened to go to the War Department. 

Mr. Naigles. If I remember correctly, the job which was open was 
in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of War. It wns a statistical 
job. I applied for it, and they took me on. 

Mr. Arens. Who was your immediate supervisor? 

Mr, Naigles. At the War Department? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Naigles. I think it was a Major Feldman. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of your duties, did you have access to 
confidential or restricted information? 

Mr. Naigles. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you knowingly precluded from access to con- 
fidential or restricted information? 

Mr. Naigles. I am not aware of any restrictions. 

Mr. Arens. While you were with the War Department did you 
belong to any organization, entity or unit consisting of War Depart- 
ment employees, concerning which you can not tell this committee 
without disclosing information which could be used against you in a 
criminal proceeding? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, if you told this committees of the Con- 
gi-ess what you know about the existence in the War Department of 
an entity or group consisting of employees, you would be supplying 
information which could be used against you in a criminal prosecu- 
tion, is that correct ? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask, M^hat years are involved? 

Mr. Arens. 1939, sir, for a period of 

Mr. Willis. I think he stated it was a very short period. 

Mr. Arens. How long was your employment with the War De- 
partment ? 

Mr. Naigles. I don't think it was more than a couple of weeks. 

Mr. Arens. Were you on loan from SEC to the War Department? 

Mr. Naigles. No. I think it was a straight transfer. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your reassignment to the SEC from the 
War Department ? 



3160 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Naioles. To fiiiisli the job on wliicli I had been started at the 
SEC. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, did your reassignment to the SEC 
from the War Department come about directly or indirectly by the 
iictivity of any person known by you to be a Communist? 

Mr. Naigles. None that I know^ of. 

Mr. Arens. Was your reassignment in any way connected with 
finy appraisal of your membership or association in any organization 
<'oncerning which you cannot tell us ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BouDiN. The witness wants to know what the question means. 
Do you want to repeat it ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information to the effect that your 
reassignment back to SEC from the War Department was occasioned 
by a suspicion of your loyalty ? 

Mr. Naigles. Xo. 

Mr. Arens. What occasioned your disassociation from the SEC 
and tlie acquisition of your status in the Bureau of Labor Statistics? 

Mr. Naigles. My supei'ior, Dr. Davenport, was transferred to the 
Bureau of Labor Statistics and then asked me to come along with 
him. 

Mr. Arens. Without in any sense implying in this question that 
the committee has any information at all derogatory of Dr. Daven- 
port, were you at any time connected with him in any extracurricular 
activities ? 

Mr. Naigles. May I consult with my counsel ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. I would like to invoke the privilege granted under the 
fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Was your transfer from SEC to the Bureau of Labor 
Statistics caused directly or indirectly by any person known by you 
to have been a member of the CV)mmunist Party ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. None that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Was it facilitated in any manner by any person known 
by you to have been a member of the Communist Party? 

Ml". Naigles. None that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us, please, about any group or organization with 
which you were identified within the Bureau of Labor Statistics con- 
>cerning which, if you gave us the facts, you would be supplying in- 
formation which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding. 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment 
oi the Constitution. 

Mr, Arens. In the Labor Department, did you know Eleanor 
Nelson ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know Helen Miller ? 

Mr. Naigles. The same answer. I invoke the privilege under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your service in the Federal Gov- 
ernment, did you at any time sign any forms pertaining to your loyalty 
to the Government ? 
• Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3161 

Mr. Arens. ]Vir. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Naigles. May I consult with counsel ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 
• Mr. BouDiN. Could we get the question again ? 

(The question was read.) 

Mr. Naigles. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Did you give truthful answers on those forms ? 

Mr. BouDiN. That is a general question. You know, the forms were 
of different formulation. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign any forms on which you, in effect, asserted 
that you had never been a member of an organization dedicated to the 
overthrow of the Government of the United States by force and 
violence ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege granted under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. I don't believe you understood me. I just asked if you 
signed them. Did you sign any forms of that character ? 

Mr. Naigles. Wasn't that the previous question ? You asked me if 
I had signed anj^ forms and I said, "Yes." 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time sign any form on which you stated 
in effect that you had never been a member of an organization dedi- 
cated to the violent overthrow of the Govermiient of the United States ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege granted under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that he be ordered 
and directed to answer the simple question whether or not he signed 
such a form ? 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer that question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. I don't remember the exact formulation to enable me 
to give you an answer to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign a form, the essence of Av-iich was, whether 
or not you had ever been a member of the Communist Party, or any 
organization of a subversive nature or any organization dedicated to 
the overthroAv of the Government of the United States by force and 
violence? 

Mr. Naigles. I don't recall whether I ever signed any statement in 
accordance with the language which you just gave. 

Mr. Arens. Is that your best recollection'^ 

Mr. Naigijcs. That is my best recollection. 

Mr. Arens. We have testimony on this record this morning by a 
witness, Mr. Gorham, to the effect that while he was a member of the 
Communist Party and engaged in the service of the Federal Govern- 
ment, there were no Conununist Party cards. 

With that as a foundation, I should like to ask you whether or not 
at any time during the period you were employed by the Federal Gov- 
ernment, you ever had a Communist Party card ? 

IMr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege granted under the fifth amend- 
ment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have Ave arrived at that point in your career in the 
Federal Government where we are in the last agency with which you 
were identified ? 



3162 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Naigles. I am not sure. 

Mr. Arens. I believe we are in tlie Bureau of Labor Statistics now. 
Let us now move to the War Shippins: Administration. When did 
you arrive at the War Shipping Administration? In 1944, wasn't it? 

Mr. Naigles. In the fall of 1944. 

Mr. Arens. Was your transfer to the War Shippino- Administration* 
or your employment in that agency caused directly or indirectly by 
any person who was known bj' you to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Naigles. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. AMiile you were in the War Shipping Administration 
did you belong to any group or entity of employees within that agency 
of the Federal Government, which is of a character that if you de- 
scribed it to this committee, you would be giving information which 
could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege granted under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that in every agency of the Federal Government in which you 
were em])loyed you were a member of a hard-core Communist cell. 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist party? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

INIr. Arens. Are you now a member of any organization dedicated 
to the violent o\erthrow of the Government of the United States? 

]VIr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

^Ir. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist con- 
spiracy or Communist Party ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Can vou tell this committee the names of any persons 
who, to your certain Icnowledge are now employed in the Federal 
Government, who, are likewise to your certain knowledge members of 
the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment to the 
Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Can you give this committee information respecting 
the whereabouts of any member of the Communist Party who is now 
working against the security and interests of this Nation? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with the Marian Anderson 
Citizens Committee? 

ISfr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that you were a member of the ^larian Anderson Citizens 
Committee in Washington. Have you ever been affiliated with the 
Washington Bookshop? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been connected with the American 
League for Peace and Democracy ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with the Washington 
Committee for Democratic Action ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3163 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with tlie Washington 
Committee for Aid to China? 

Mr. Naiglks. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with the Institute of 
Pacific Kelations '^ 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever received funds from an organization 
for services which, if you should describe that organization to this 
committee, would be supplying information which could be used 
against jon in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. BouDiN. May I ask you something, Mr. Chairman. Can't that 
be made more specific? Again we are moving in a very general area. 

The Chairman. Let's rephrase the question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever received funds from a sensitive organ- 
ization — by sensitive organization I mean the Communist Party or a 
Communist-front organization — for services rendered to that organ- 
ization ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel). 

Mr. Naigij'^s. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been allied, a member of, or affiliated 
with the American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Abner Green, the executive secretary of 
the American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. HaA^e you ever engaged in any activities at the behest of 
the American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever made contributions to any organization 
of the sensitive variety, as we have been describing them here today 'i 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever engaged in any activities directly or in- 
directly dedicated to the violent overthrow of the Government of the 
United States? 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken a loyalty oath ? 

Mr. Naigles. May I consult with counsel ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel) 

Mr. BouDiN. Could you define that ? 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken an oath to preserve, protect or de- 
fend the Constitution of the United States ? 

Mr. Naigles. I must have. 

Mr. Arens. When do you think you must have ? 

Mr. Naigles. When I was a member of the American Legion. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever violate that oath? 

Mr. Naigles. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of an organization dedi- 
cated to the destruction of the Constitution of the United States and 
of American institutions? 

Mr. BoTJDiN. Mr. Chairman, isn't this really a way of asking the 
same question which the witness pleaded the privilege to before and 
aren't we covering the same ground ? 

The Chairman. I do not think so. 



3164 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. The purpose of the question is to find out whether or not 
he is observintr or has observed the significance of an oath. He has 
testified here that he has taken an oath to preserve, protect, and defend 
the Constitution aa hile he was a member of the American Legion, and 
1 just want to be sure that he has adhered to that oath. 

Mr. Naigles. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. I liave no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman, Any questions i 

Mr. Doyle. May I inquire ? 

During the time you were employed in the Bureau of Labor Statis- 
tics, in the Labor Department, did you attend any secret meeting of a. 
Coimnunist cell made up of members of the Connnunist Party in that 
Department ? 

Mr. Naigles. I respectfully iuvoke the privilege. 

Mr, Doyle. You respectfully invoke it? 

Mr. Naigles. The privilage under the fifth amendment to the Con- 
stitution. 

]Mr. Doyle. I ask you the same question during the time that you 
were employed in the SEC. During that period of time did j^ou at- 
tend secret Communist cell meetings made up of other employees of 
the SEC? 

Mr. Naigles. I respectfully invoke the privilege under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. DoYT.E. I think you said you worked for the War Department 
for 2 weeks, is that correct ? 

Mr. Naigles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle, During the 2 weeks you worked for the War Department,, 
did you attend secret meetings of the Communist cell in Washington 
made up of members of War Department employees ? 

Mr. Naigles, I respectfully invoke the privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr, Doyle, Do you understand my question ? I was referring to the 
short period of 2 weeks. 

Mr. Naigles. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. During 19^14 when you worked for the War Shipping 
Administration, did you attend secret meetings of the Communist 
cell made up of staff employees of the War Shipping Administration 
and yourself? 

Mr. Naigles. I respectfully invoke the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Frazier. 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Willis. 

^Ir. Willis. No questions. 

The Chairman. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. That is all we have for today, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. The connnittee will stand in recess, to meet again 
at 10 o'clock tomorrow. 

(^Vliereupon, at 3 : 25 p. m., Tuesday, February 14, 1956, the com- 
mittee was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m. Wednesday, February 15, 
1956.) ^ 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST INFILTRATION 
OF GOVERNMENT— PART 3 



WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1956 

United States House of Representati\es, 

Subcommittee of the 
Com3iittee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C, 

PUBLIC HEARING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
at 10: 15 a. m., pursuant to recess, in the caucus room of the House 
Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiclino;. 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter 
of Pennsylvania (presidino), Morgan M. Moulder of Missouri, Clyde 
Doyle of California, James B. Fi-azier, Jr. of Tennessee, Edwin E.. 
Willis of Louisiana, and Bernard W. Kearney of New York. 

Staff members present: Richard Arens, acting counsel, and Court- 
ney E. Owens, investigator. 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

The committee is very happy to learn that General Kearney has re- 
turned from a long arduous investigation of hospitals and will be with 
us from now on. 

Call your first witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Irving Richter, please. 

JNIr. Richter, please remain standing, raise your right hand and 
be sworn. 

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Richter. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF IRVING EICHTER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

HARRY I. RAND 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Richter, the acoustics in this room are not too good 
so will you kindly keep your voice up, please % 
: Mr. Richter. Mr. Chairman, may we avoid the pictures? 

Mr. Rand. May we avoid this camera business? 

The Chairman. The rule of the committee is that pictures may 
be taken before the witness testifies. 

Mr. Rand. The witness has already been sworn, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. He has been sworn but he has not testified. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly identify yourself by name, residence 
aiul occupation? 

3165 



3166 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. RicHTER. My name is Irving Richter; I live in Detroit. I am 
self-employed. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity are you employed ? 

Mr. RiCHTER, As a business man, selling. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is the nature of the commodity which you sell ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. Toys and novelties. 

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Richter, in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities? 

Mr. RiCHTER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens, Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Richter. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Arens, Will counsel kindly identify himself ? 

Mr, Rand. Harry I. Rand, Wyatt Building, Washington 5, D, C, 

Mr, Arens, Mr. Richter, have you ever been known by any name 
other than the name Irving Richter ? 

Mr. Richter, I respectfully invoke the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment in answer to that question, 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that if you would tell this committee any 
other name under which you may have gone in your lifetime that that 
would furnish information which could be used against you in a 
criminal proceeding ? 

Mr, Richter, Yes, sir, 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us, if you please, a word about your edu- 
cational background. 

Mr, Richter. I went to the public schools of New York. 

Mr. Arens, Were you born in New York ? 

Mr, Richter, Yes, sir, I graduated from the University of 
Wisconsin. 

Mr. Arens. In what year ? 

Mr, Richter, Madison, Wis,, 1934. 

Mr, Arens, T\^iat degree did you receive ? 

Mr. Richter. Bachelor of Arts. 

Mr. Ares. Will you kindly trace in resume form, Mr. Richter, the 
employment which you have had since you completed your formal 
education at the University of Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Richter. My first full-time employment was with the Federal 
Emergency Relief Administration. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere was that and when ? 

Mr, Richter, 1934 to 1935 in Washington. 

Mr, Arens, In what capacity ? 

Mr, Richter, I was first employed as a senior clerk, 

Mr. Arens, At the moment we just want to get a skeleton of your 
employment and not dwell on any particular employment. Now give 
us the next employment which you had, 

Mr, Richter. I was employed as special assistant in the transient 
division of both FERA ,and when it became WFA, 

Mr, Arens, And the date on that series of employments, please ? 

Mr. Richter. 1934, 1935 and part of 1936, I believe, to the best of 
my recollection, 

Mr. Arens. Now proceed to give us a chronology, 

Mr, Richter, From 1936 to 1938, I was a special agent in the divi- 
sion of investigation of the Works Progress Administration, 

Mr. Arens. Wliere? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3167 

Mr. EiCHTER. In New York regional office. 

Mr. Arexs. Kindly proceed in like manner to trace your employ- 
ment record. 

Mr. RiCHTER. In 1938, I went to the Wage and Hour Division of 
the Labor Department in "Washington. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you there ? 

Mr. Richter. 1938 to some time in 1943. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly proceed. 

Mr. Richter. In the period from 1943 to 1948 I wish to invoke the 
privilege granted me under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. That is, when you worked for the United Auto Work- 
ers ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that if you should give this committee a 
truthful answer as to the place and dates of your employment from 
1943 to 1948 that you would be supplying information which would 
be used against you in a criminal prosecution ? 

Mr. Richter. I think the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Let us get this absolutely clear, the status of your mind. 

Do you feel that that information could be used against you in a 
criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Richter, I answered the question. 

Mr. Arens. Answer it again. 

Do you think that information could be used against you in a 
criminal proceeding. 

Mr. Richter. It could be used. 

The Chairman. May I ask this question ? 

Between 1943 and 1948 were you employed by the United Auto 
Workers ? 

Mr. Richter. I have invoked the privilege, Congressman, under the 
first and fifth amendment on that. 

The Chairman. Why do you think it would subject you to a criminal 
prosecution to admit that you had been employed by this vinion ? 

Mr. Richter. Because this union has been called by this committee 
from time to time a Communist-front organization, a Communist- 
controlled organization. 

The Chairman. You know, you are entirely in error about that. 
This committee has never made any such finding. 

Mr. Richter. I don't know whether it has made an official finding, 
but I do know that in times past this committee under ditferent chair- 
men has had witnesses before it who have called the UAW-CIO a 
Communist organization or a Communist-controlled organization. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Witness, may I ask you this : 

Is your refusal to answer based upon your activities from 1943 to 
1948, or merely upon your identification with a given employer ? 

Mr. Doyle. After your statement, Mr. Chairman, I might say that 
it was my responsibility to preside at the subcommittee hearing in an- 
other State where we did have witnesses from the United Auto Work- 
ers, and I am sure the record will show at that time that I declared on 
behalf of the committee that we were not contending that that union 
was a Communist front but that we would not desist from investigating 

70811—56 — pt. 3 5 



3168 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

the extent to "which the Communists had infiltrated that union or 
any oher union merely because it was a union. 

The Chairman. That is my recollection. I read the record after 
the hearing and that is why I asked the question. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. We have a question that is outstanding. 

Mr. KicHTER. What is the question? 

Mr. Arens. The question is this : 

Is your declination to answer respecting your employment from 
1943 to 1948 based upon your personal activities or based upon the 
affiliation which you had with your employer? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Is it not a fact that you are attempting to use this 
union to hide activities in which you were engaged rather than legiti- 
mate labor union activities ? 

Mr. Richter. I think I am entitled to decline to answer that ques- 
tion, Congressman, under the privilege. 

The Chairman. Do you decline to answer? 

Mr. Richter. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. It is always very disturbing to me to see the large 
number of fine hard-working labor union members who are deceived 
by the sort of thing that is developing right here today. 

Mr. Arens. Now give us, if you please, sir, the complete chronolgy 
here on your employment. From 1943 to 1948 you decline to answer. 
Now pick it up as of that period where you will answer. 

Mr. Richter. For a short time in 1948 and 1949 I was assistant 
editor or associate editor, I have forgotten which, of a small com- 
munity newspaper outside of Detroit. 

Mr. Arens. What subdivision was that? 

Mr. Richter. Inkster. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the publication ? 

Mr. Richter. It was a suburban weekly. 

Mr. Arens. Continue with your employment record from there, 
please, sir. 

Mr. Richter, Since that time I have been self-employed. 

Mr. Arens. Are you president of a company ? 

Mr. Richter. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. AVhat is the name of the company? 

Mr. Richter. Organization Services. 

Mr. Arens. Where is it located? 

Mr. Richter. In Detroit. 

Mr. Arens. Is it a corporation? 

Mr. Richit:r. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where is it incorporated? 

Mr. Richter. In Detroit. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Richter, in the course of the recent past, did you 
have a conversation with a representative of the staff of the House 
Committee on Un-American activities, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Richter. Yes, at the time he handed me the subpena. 

Mr. Arens. When was that? 

Mr. Ricii^rER. The latter part of November or the first part of 
December 1955. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3169 

Mr. Arens. What did you tell Mr. Appell with reference to your 
attitude of cooperation or noncooperation with this committee and 
other agencies of the Government? 

Mr. RicHTER. I don't know the exact words that I used with Mr. 
Appell. 

Mr. Arens. Did you tell him you had cooperated with the FBI ?• 

Mr. RicHTER. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you tell him in effect that you would cooperate with- 
this committee? 

Mr. RicHTER. I don't remember exactly the words I used. I told 
him I would be very happy to come to the committee. I don't remem- 
ber him asking me the direct question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Richter. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party 1 year 
ago? 

Mr. Richter. As to past affiliation, I invoke the privilege of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party as of the 
time you were served a subpena to appear before this committee? 

Mr. Richter. As to past membership, I invoke the privilege of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party yester- 
day? 

Mr. Richter. As to past membership, as I have said, I invoke the 
privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Am I to conclude from that phraseology, a past mem- 
bership, that you are implying that you were a member yesterday? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that on grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. When did you disassociate yourself from the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with his counsel). I decline to an- 
swer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to invite your attention to the schedule 
of your employments which you have just recited. 

From 1934 to 1935 you have pointed out that you were employed 
by the Federal Government in the relief agency as a senior clerk. 

I now ask you whether you were, while you were on the Federal 
payroll from 1934 to 1935, in that particular job, also a member of a 
Communist Party cell in the Government ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). I invoke the privi- 
lege of the fifth amendment in answer to that question. 

Mr. Arens. "\'V^io is Edna Richter ? 

Mr. Richter. I have a sister named Edna Richter. 

Mr. Arens. Was she likewise employed in the Government at the 
same time you were ? 

Mr. Richter. As to that, I invoke the privilege 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. Rand. May I consult with the witness a moment ? 

The Chairman. Surely. 



3170 COMIVIUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. RiCHTER (after conferring with counsel). I will answer that 
question. 

Mr. Rand. May we have the question ? 

Mr. Arens. Perhaps the reporter can read it. 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. RiCHTER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that employment? 

Mr. RicHTER. I believe it was in FERA and perhaps the first part 
of WPA. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. Some time in 1934 and 1935. I don't know just what 
period. 

Mr. Arens. Did you and Edna Richter belong to any organization 
together ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). With respect to that 
question, I repectfully invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Marcel Kistin, 
K-i-s-t-i-n ? 

Mr. Richter. I invoke the privilege in answer to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that if you told this committee the truth- 
ful answer with respect to any contact or association you may have 
had with Marcel Kistin that it could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

Mr. Richter. It might be. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know an individual by the name of Bernard 
Greenberg ? 

Mr. Richter. I respectfully invoke the privilege with respect to 
that question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know an individual by the name of Sidney 
Katz? 

Mr. Richter. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Rebecca 
P-f-e-f -f -e-r-m-a-n ? 

Mr. Richter. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Yesterday a man took an oath before this committee 
to tell the truth, and he testified that while he was employed in WPA 
in Washington, you were a member of a Communist Party cell ; that 
he knew you and identified you as such. 

Was he lying or was he telling the truth ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. The man's name was James E. Gorham, G-o-r-h-a-m. 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the grounds that the answer 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. When you transferred in 1935 as a clerk over to special 
assistant in FERA, what were your duties ? 

Mr. Richter. My duties included drawing up some procedures on 
the intake, the work, the discharge and generally the handling of 
what we called transient relief cases. It also included inspecting the 
facilities that they were housed in. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment in that particular agency occa- 
sioned directly or indirectly by any person known by you to have been 
a member of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel) . No, sir. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3171 

Mr. Aeens. Did you, in the course of your employment, have access 
to any confidential or restricted information ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in the course of your employment, work in 
connection or conjunction with people known by you to be in the 
Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. RicHTER (after conferring wdth comisel). Would you mind re- 
peating that question ? 

Mr. Arens. In the performance of your work in FERA, not any 
extracurricular activity but in the performance of your duties, did 
you work with any persons known by you to have been members of 
the Communist conspiracy '^ 

Mr. EiciiTER (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that on grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, is it true that if you told this com- 
mittee a truthful answer with respect to that principal question, you 
would be supplying information which might be used against jou in 
a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. RicHTER. The answer I give might be used against me. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Richter, when did you have a change of heart 
toward this committee and intelligence agencies of the Government? 

Mr. Richter. I have had no change of heart that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. With whom have you discussed your prospective ap- 
pearance before this committee since you received your subpena ? 

Mr. Richter. My wife, my lawyer. 

Mr. Arens. Have you discussed it with any person known by you 
to be or to have been a member of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). Would you mind 
rejDeating that question ? 

Mr. Arens. Have you discussed your prospective appearance before 
this committee with any person known by you to have been a member 
of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). No. 

Mr. Arens. Now let us proceed with your next series of employ- 
ments. 

From 1936 to 1938 you were special agent in the Division of Investi- 
gations at the WPA at the regional office; where was that regional 
office? 

Mr. Richter. New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment occasioned there directly or 
indirectly by a person known by you to have been affiliated with the 
Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richter. No. 

Mr. Arens. Were you, in the course of your work, not, again, extra- 
curricular activities, but in the course of your work, associated in 
any activities with persons known by you to have been allied with the 
Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that on the gTounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, if you told this committee truthfully 
whether or not you had been allied with such individuals while you 
were on the Federal payroll in the regional office of WPA in New 
York City, you would be supplying information which might be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding; is that correct? 



3172 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. RiCHTER. It's a pretty complicated phraseology you have there, 
Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. You have declined to answer before this committee un- 
der oath whether or not you were in alliance on the job with people 
known by you to have been members of the Communist conspiracy. 

The record shows that, does it not ? You have declined to answer ? 

Mr. RicHTER. Yes. 

Mr. Akens. I am now asking you whether or not your declination is 
based on a fear in your mind that if you did give a truthful answer 
to that question you would be supplying information which might be 
Vised against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. I think that is a fair statement, that I fear it might 
be used against me. 

Mr. Arens. Well, if you had not been allied with any people in the 
Communist conspiracy, you need have no fear ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. I fear that my answer to your questions, Mr. Counsel, 
might be used against me. 

Mr. Arens. Let us move on to your assignment in the Wage and 
Hour Division of the Department of Labor in Washington from 1938 
to 1943. 

Was your employment occasioned there directly or indirectly by 
the intervention or activity of any person known by you to have been 
a member of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Rand. Where is this ? 

Mr. Arens. Wage and Hour Division in the Department of Labor 
from 1938 to 1943. 

Mr. RiCHTER (after conferring with counsel). No. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of a conspiracy against the Gov- 
ernment of the United States in conjunction with other persons in the 
Government while you were in the Wage and Hour Division of the 
Department of Labor ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. I will have to ask you to repeat that one, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of a conspiracy against this Gov- 
ernment within the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of 
Labor while you were employed there from 1938 to 1943? 

Mr. RiCHTER (after conferring with counsel). Conspiracy to do 
what? 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member, we will qualify it, of an organiza- 
tion of a consj^iratorial nature which advocates and did advocate the 
forceful overthrow of the Government of the United States ? 

Mr, RiCHTER (after conferring with counsel) . I respectfully decline 
to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. You feel that to do so would give information which 
miglit be used against you in a criminal prosecution ; is that correct? 

Mr. RiCHTER. It might. 

Mr. Arens. What occasioned your disassociation from the Depart- 
ment of Labor in 1943 ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. I received an offer for another job. 

Mr. Arens. And in the course of that other job which begins in this 
blackout period from 1943 to 1948, did you have occasion to make the 
acquaintance of Dorothy Funn, F-u-n-n ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. I respectfully decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Dorothy Funn 

Mr. RiCHTER. I wanted to finish my answer. 



COMMUlSriST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3173 

My declination was based on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Dorothy Funn testified on May 4, 1953, before the 
Committee on Un-American Activities that she was a one-time mem- 
ber of the Communist Party in Washington, D. C, and was in contact 
and associated with you as a legislative representative who was lobby- 
ing here for the Communist conspiracy. 

Was she lying or was she telling the truth? 

Mr. EicHixK. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Where was your employment from 1943 to 1948 ? 

Mr. RiCHTER (after conferring with counsel) . In Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Was the employment here continuously from 1943 to 
1948, or did you also have occasion in the course of your employment 
to be absent from Washington? 

Mr. RicHTER. I had occasion to make many trips. 

Mr. Arens. Where was the general area of those trips? 

Mr. RicHTER. Throughout the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have occasion to frequently make trips to 
Detroit, Mich. ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the central source of the funds which sus- 
tained you during this period? 

Mr. RicHTER (after conferring with counsel). I think it is reason- 
able for me to invoke the privilege in answer to this question. 

The Chairman. Do you? 

Mr. RicHTER. I do, sir. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment from 1943 to 
1948, did you interest yourself professionally in legislation ? 

Mr. RicHTER (after conferring with counsel). I invoke the privi- 
lege of the fifth amendment in answer to that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. RicHTER. My reason for that. Congressman Walter, is that as 
I understand, Miss or Mrs. Funn testified about legislative activity at 
the time she named me, and that was the central activity she discussed. 

I therefore think that to protect myself against any possible use of 
my testimony in any possible future proceeding that I am entitled to 
this privilege. 

The Chairman. How could you possibly feel apprehensive on the 
question of prosecution for advocating the enactment or the defeat 
of any kind of legislation ? 

Mr. Rand. Counsel has just read a statement which Miss Funn is 
supposed to have made in 1953. 

The Chairman. What difference does it make if every Communist 
in the United States and one person who is not a Communist advocates 
the enactment of certain legislation ? 

Mr. Rand. Miss Funn testified, as I understand, that Mr. Richter 
during a certain period was active in lobbying for legislation in sup- 
port of the Communist conspiracy, and if you will ask counsel to re- 
peat that, I think those are almost the exact words Miss Funn is re- 
ported to have used. 

In view of that, I respectfully urge that Mr. Richter here is en- 
titled to invoke the privilege in protection of his rights. It is because 



3174 COMMUIS'IST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

of that testimony which counsel has just referred to that I believe Mr. 
Richter 

The Chairman. I venture the curbstone opinion that any person 
who would advocate the legalization of the Communist Party would 
not be guilty of any crime under the law^s of the United States. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time legislative representative for the 
United Auto Workers. 

Mr. RicHTER. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the wit- 
ness be ordered and directed to answer that question because there is 
not a necessary connection between the activity of lobbying for the 
United Auto Workers and the commission of any criminal offense. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Rand. Mr. Chairman, may I be heard a moment here so that 
I can advise my client? 

The Chairman. You can advise him, surely. I do not want your 
advice. Advise your client. 

Mr. Rand. May I understand the rationale of the ruling? 

I don't want to impose on the committee but as I understand, the 
committee earlier did sustain Mr. Richter's invocation of the privilege 
with respect to affiliation with the United Automobile Workers, if 
indeed there was an affiliation. 

The Chairman. He has been asked a question. 

Mr. RiCHTER (after conferring with counsel). I would like to ex- 
plain why I do not wish to answer this question. 

The Chairman. It is not a case of whether you wish to answer the 
question or not; it is a question of whether you decline to answer. 

Mr. Richter. I would like to decline and explain why I decline. 

The Chairman. Do you decline to answer by invoking the fifth 
amendment ? 

Mr. Richter. I do want to invoke the fifth amendment and the 
reason for it, Mr. Chairman 

The Chairman. That is enough. You invoked the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Richter. If you feel no explanation is necessary. 

Mr. Arens. During this period from 1943 to 1948 were you engaged 
professionally in any research work ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). Yes, sir; I engaged 
in some research work. 

Mr. Arens. Was that here in Washington ? 

Mr. Richter. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And wlio was engaged with you in that research 
work ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Abens. Who was your immediate superior in your research 
work ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time during your employment with 
the United States Government requested to, and did you sign any 
loyalty oath ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3175 

Mr. RiCHTER. I don't really remember. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time sign any form to the effect that 
you had never been a member of the Communist Party, an organization 
dedicated to the forceful overthrow of the Government of the United 
States? 

Mr. RicHTER. I don't really remember whether I signed any such. 

Mr. Arens. In 1948 what occasioned your disassociation from this 
activity or affiliation for which the curtain is drawn? 

Mr. RicHTER (after conferring with counsel). I wonder if you 
would mind repeating the question? 

Mr. Arens. I will come to the essence of it. What occasioned the 
change in your status from the activity wliich is shrouded in darkness 
to an activity beginning, according to your own recitation, in 1948, 
that you can talk about? 

Mr. RicHTER. I hate to draw a shroud again, but I respectfully in- 
voke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at tliat time get in a little difficulty with your 
associates who were engaged in this activity with you ? 

Mr. Richter. I respectfully invoke the privilege in answer to that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any contact or association w^ith any fac- 
tional difficulties in this activity shrouded in darkness ? 

Mr. Richter. I must again decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you fired by your employers? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Was your disassociation voluntary or involuntary? 

Mr. Richter. I again invoke the privilege. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any knowledge or did you participate 
directly or indirectly in the shooting of Walter Reuther ? 

Mr. Richter. No. 

Mr. Arens. Were you questioned by the police with reference to 
that incident ? 

Mr. Richter. No, 

Mr. Arens. In what type of research work were you engaged during 
the period of darkness ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). Legislative and 
economic research. 

Mr. Arens. Could you elaborate for us? Was it legislative with 
reference to prices or labor conditions ? 

Mr. Richter. It covered practically the whole field of legislation, 
including some of Congressman Walter's bills. 

Mr. Arens. Were you interested in legislation which was designed 
to rout the Communist conspiracy? 

The Chairman. I did not quite get that. Were you assigned to 
analyze my bills? 

Mr. Richter. I said all kinds of bills, including some of your bills. 

The Chairman. Particularly the Government contract law, I sup- 
pose ? 

Mr. Richter. No. 

The Chairman. The law which requires the payment of minimum 
prevailing rates of wages under decent working conditions to the 
workers. Is that the one you were analyzing ? 

Mr. Richter. I am familiar with that one, too. Congressman. 



3176 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. What did you do with your analysis after you com- 
pleted it? 

Mr. RicHTER (after conferring with counsel) . I think this is bring- 
ing in the back door the same question, and therefore I must respect- 
fully decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Well, now, we are back in the period of daylight and 
sunshine, 1948 and 1949. During that period did you know a person 
by the name of Edith Van Horn ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. I respectfully decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. During that period from 1948 to 1949, did you know a 
person by the name of Stanley K. Nowak ? 

Mr. Richter. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You engaged in some political activity during this 
period of daylight, did you not, from 1948 to 1949? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in 1948 you were the 
campaign manager for Stanley Nowak for the United States Congress 
on the Progressive Party ticket ? 

Mr. Richter. I respectfully decline to answer that question. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. We are not getting much daylight here. 

Did you know a person by the name of Martin Berkeley ? 

Mr. Richter. Would you repeat that ? 

Mr. Arens. B-e-r-k-e-1-e-y. 

Mr. Richter. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of Cedric H. 
Bel f rage? 

Mr. Richter. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you do some writing for the National Guardian 
in the course of your career as a journalist ? 

Mr. Richter. I respectfully invoke the privilege of the first amend- 
ment and the fifth amendment, and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I have in my hand a photostatic copy 
of an article appearing in the National Guardian of April 19, 1950, 
an article with the byline of Irving Richter. I now lay that before 
the witness and ask him if he can identify that article. 

Mr. Rand. May we have a moment to look at this? 

The Chairman. Surely. 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). In answer to the 
question, I decline to answer the question on the grounds of the first 
amendment and the fifth amendment. 

]\Ir. Arens. Mr. Chairman, this article is, as I have stated, an 
article which appeared in a public press. I am only asking the wit- 
ness if he can identify the article or if he has ever seen it. 

It is a ]Dublic article under the byline of Irving Richter. I would 
respectfully suggest to the chairman that the mere preparation of an 
article or identification of the article could not possibly connect this 
witness with a criminal offense. 

Therefore, I respectfully suggest that the Chair order and direct 
the witness to answer the question as to whether or not he has ever 
seen this article before. 

Mr. Rand. In what press is that? 



COMMUNIST INriLTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3177 

Mr. Arens. National Guardian. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. RicHTEK (after conferring with counsel). I respectfully de- 
cline, and I would like to explain, Congressman Walter, that I am 
refusing to answer this question on the grounds of the first and fifth 
amendments because the editor of that paper has been deported, I be- 
lieve, and has been named before this and other governmental com- 
mittees as being subversive or Communist, or both. 

Mr. Arens. I am under the impression, Mr. Chairman, that this 
record shows that the witness has already testified he did not know 
Belfrage, so if he did not know Belfrage there could be no possible 
connection between himself and any deportation case against Belfrage. 

The Chairman. You have been directed to answer. 

Mr. R.ICHTER. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you connected with the Civil Rights Congress 
in Detroit, Mich. ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend- 
ment and the first amendment. 

Mr. Arens. The Washington Book Shop in Washington, D. C. ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. The American League for Peace and Democracy ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Who was Maurice Sugar? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio was Dean Robb? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you the host at a party in 1949 at 4277 Seebaldt 
in Detroit? 

Mr. Richter. Was I — will you repeat that ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever live at 4277 Seebaldt ? 

Mr. Richter. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Was that a house or apartment ? 

Mr. Richter. Flat, upper and lower flat. 

Mr. Arens. Did you on occasions have parties there for your 
friends ? 

Mr. Richter. Sure. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have one there in which you had some of your 
friends in to discuss the position of the 12 Communist indicted 
leaders ? 

Mr. Richter. I respectfully decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. On May 14, 1948, 1 put it to you as a fact that you held 
a Communist Party cell meeting there for the purpose of instigating 
action on behalf of the 12 indicted leaders of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rand. What is the question? 

Mr. Arens. I put it to him as a fact and ask him to deny or affirm 
it is a fact. 

Mr. Richter, I invoke the privilege, first and fifth. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any persons known now by you to be em- 
ployed in the Federal Government who to your certain knowledge are 
now members of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). No. 

Mr. Arens. Can you identify any persons who to your certain 
knowledge were members of the Communist conspiracy and were 
employed in the Federal Government ? 



3178 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. RicHTER (after conferring witli counsel). I suppose it's a clear 
question but it isn't clear to me. 

Mr. Arens. Will you tell this Committee on Un-American Activities 
the names of persons known by you to have been in the Communist 
conspiracy while employed in the Federal Government? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. RicHTER. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken an oath to support and defend the 
Constitution of the United States ? 

Mr. RicHTER. I must have but I don't remember specifically. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in the service ? 

Mr. Richter. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. The staff has no further questions at this time, Mr. 
Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Doyle, have you any questions ? 

Mr. DoYL,E. One or two questions, Mr. Chairman. 

When counsel questioned you about the period between 1943 and 
1948, 3"ou invoked the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

I understood from your testimony that you had disassociated your- 
self from Communist Party membership sometime prior to this hour; 
this day, is that true ? 

Mr. RiciiTER (after conferring with counsel). I want to be as full 
as I can in answering what I think is a fairly important but involved 
question. 

First, I said I was not at present a member of the Communist Party. 
My declination to answer was certainly neither an affirmation nor a 
denial of past membership. 

I think you can understand the reasons other than the publicized 
reasons why I would answer that way. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me be frank with you. 

Under Public Law 601 we are assigned responsibility of ascertain- 
ing how the Communist Party as a subversive party operates, both as 
to individuals and groups of individuals, in order to report to Congress 
in the field of legislation. 

Now, granting that your statement that you are not now a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party is true, when I heard you invoke the fifth 
amendment as to whether or not you were a member yesterday, to me 
at least, there was a reasonable inference that maybe you were yes- 
terday — gi'anting there is no direct admission that you were a member 
of the Communist Party yesterday. 

If you were not a member yesterday, when counsel asked you, 
why did you not say "yes" or "no," the same as you answered his ques- 
tion as to whether you were a member today? Is that not a fair 
question ? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). Congressman Doyle, 
I have the greatest respect for your sincerity in the answering of this 
question. I know a little bit about your background. But, with all due 
respect to your intentions, if I open up the question here of past mem- 
bership, I don't know where these questions are going to lead, not with 
respect only to membership but to activities of myself and other 
people. 

Mr. DoTLE. I see. 

Mr. Richter. That is my reason for neither affirming nor denying 
past membership. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3179 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Just a minute. 

You did not either affirm or deny ; you denied. 

Mr. RicHTER. Present membership, Congressman "Walter. 

The Chairman. Present membership, and then you declined to 
answer the question as to whether or not you were a Communist yes- 
terday. 

Mr. RiCHTER. On past membership, Congressman. 

The Chairman. On yesterday ? 

Mr. Richter. Yes, that is correct, and the reason, if you are in- 
terested in knowing why 

The Chahiman. I think I know why, and I am not interested in 
what you would say about it. I think I know why. 

Go ahead, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Because manifestly, under Public Law 601, it is our 
duty, if we can, to find out how individual members of the Communist 
Party operate either within the party or what they do when they get 
out of the party. 

Now, with that statement by me, may I ask you : 

What steps have you taken since yesterday to put yourself in a 
position so you could honestly, in view of your oath, say to us today 
you are not now a member of the Communist Party ? 

In other words, what did you do to change your status with ref- 
erence to the Communist Party between yesterday and today '^ 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. Now, may I explain, please ? 

I think that is a fair question because under the law we are chal- 
lenged with finding out how the Communist Party as a subversive 
organization operates within its membership and why you people 
who claim the fifth amendment as of yesterday, do not claim it as of 
today. 

In other words, you are frankly telling us today you are not a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. Now please tell us honestly, in view 
of your oath, what you did to change your status so that yesterday 
you claimed the privilege and stated why, and today you do not claim 
the privilege, but tell us frankly you are not a member. 

Mr. Richter ( after conferring Avith counsel ) . Congressman Doyle, 
in answer to the inference you raise in your question, I took no steps 
yesterday or during the night to make any change. 1 was answering 
the question as to present membership. I was not making any refer- 
ence or inference as to yesterday or the day before. 

Mr. Doyle. You may not have deliberately made any inference 
in your own mind, but my impression is that any reasonable man 
would conclude that there was a time when you were a member of the 
Communist Party and that you changed your status. 

Did you write in your resignation? Did you telephone in your 
resignation? What did you do? What does a Communist Party 
member do, if you know ; let me put it that way. 

Mr. Richter. Are you asking me that question ? 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have any knoAvledge as to what a Communist 
Party member does when he changes his status from being a Com- 
munist to a non-Communist ? 

You are a non-Communist tliis morning. I am assuming that under 
your oath you are a non-Communist right now; you have so stated. 



3180 COMJMTJNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

I think in fairness to the United States Congi'ess you should 
tell us what step, if any, you have taken to put yourself in the position 
of being a non-Communist. 
. (Witness confers with counsel.) 
'^'' Mr. Doyle. Or have you always been a non- Communist, even from 
1943 to 1948? 

Mr. RiciiTER. I just decline to answer that question, Congressman, 
on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Doyle. Two more questions, please, Mr. Chairman. 

Either you or counsel stated that you were doing lobbying work 
in the interests of legislation ; is that correct ? 

Mr. RiCHTER. Counsel may have stated that ; I didn't. 

Mr. Doyle. All right, but you stated you were engaged in research 
work in Washington in the interest of legislation. Were you a regis- 
tered lobbyist here? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Doyle, IVIr. Chairman, if this man was a registered lobbyist, 
having complied with the lobbying law, I do not see how that question 
could possibly incriminate him. 

He should be required to answer; should he not? 

The. Chairman. Well, I do not think so, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I was a few minutes late this morning and maybe 
counsel asked you this question. At the time you were interested in 
legislation here, in research work, did you use any name other than 
the name you have given counsel ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to ansTver that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Doyle. During your Government employment at the Depart- 
ment of Labor, did you attend any Communist cell caucuses or meet- 
ings in the Government building itself ? 

Mr. Richter. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all, Mr, Chairman. 

The Chairman. An}^ questions, Mr. Frazier? 

Mr, Frazier. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kearney? 

Mr, Kearney. I would like to ask Mr. Richter this question : 

If you had never been a member of the Communist Party, would 
3'ou so state to this committee? 

Mr. Richter (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that, Congressman. 

Mr, Kearney. That is all. 

The Chairjnian. There will be no further questions of the witness 
this morning. We will take a 5-minute recess at this time. 
(A short recess was taken.) 

The Chairman, The committee will be in order. 
Mr. Arens. Mr. Morris Levine. 

Please remain standing and raise your right hand to take the 
oath. 

The Chairman. Mr. Levine, do you swear that the testimony you 
are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 
Mr. Le\t:ne. I do. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3181 

TESTIMONY OF MORRIS LEVINE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

IRVING MEYERS 

Mr. Akens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Levine. My name is Morris Levine; I live in Chicago, 111. I 
work in a typesetting establishment. 

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Levine, in response to 
a subpena served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities. 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel please identify himself? 

Mr. Meyers. Irving Meyers, Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel identify the law firm, please? 

Mr. Meyers. Meyers and Kothstein. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Irvine, have you been kno\Yn by any name other 
than the name by which you were subpenaed, Morris Levine? 

Mr. Levine. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Levine. Born in Duluth, Minnesota, 1908. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, just a word about your edu- 
cational background. 

Mr. Levine. I attended public school and high school in Cleveland, 
Ohio, and subsequent to that at sporadic intervals I attended night 
school, some in Chicago and some in Washington. I don't have any 
degree. 

Mr. Arens. Now kindly give us, if you please, Mr. Levine, a brief 
thumbnail sketch of the chronology of the various employments which 
you have had since you reached adulthood. 

Mr. Levine. I was employed by the Federal Government in various 
agencies for approximately 20 years, beginning in 1930. 

Mr. Arens. Let us begin then in 1930, if that is agTeeable to you, 
and enumerate the agencies with which you were employed in the 
proper sequence. 

Mr. Levine. I first worked for the Bureau of the Census. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity? 

Mr. Levine. As a clerk, statistical clerk. 

Mr. Arens. Give us your next employment. 

Mr. Levine. The Department of Agriculture. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that transition made ? 

Mr. Levine. I hope you will excuse the approximate nature of the 
dates ; it is a long time ago. 

Mr. Arens. That is perfectly all right. 

The Chairman. Just to the best of your recollection. 

Mr. Levine. I believe it was in 1932 that I worked at the Depart- 
ment of Agriculture. 

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity ? 

Mr. Levine. As a clerk. That may have been for approximately 
6 months, to the best of my recollection. Then my next employment 
was in the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the Department of Labor. 

Mr. Arens. That commenced about 1932, likewise, I take it? 

Mr. Levine. No, that was in either 1933 or 1934. 



3182 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Aeens. Kindly continue giving us the chronology here, Mr. 
Levine. 

Mr. Levine. I was in the Department of Labor until it was either 
1941 or 1942, when I transferred to the War Production Board. 
Mr. Arens. And in what capacity were you working there? 

Mr. Levine. I was working as a statistician and economist. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you engaged there ? 

Mr. Levine. Until, I believe it was, the beginning of 1946 when I 
was employed by the Army in Toledo. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you there? 

Mr. Levine. I was there until 1950. 

Mr. Arens. From 1946 until 1950? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you serve with the Army ? 

Mr. Levine. The same capacity, statistician and economist. 

Mr. Arens. As a civilian? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly proceed. 

Mr. Levine. At that time I left the Government, and for the next 
3 or 4 years I had no regular employment. I attempted various busi- 
ness ventures, most of which were unsuccessful. 

Mr. Arens. From '50 to '54, give us a word about the self-employ- 
ment. What type of work was it ? 

Mr. Levine. Well, it was various. I had a certain amount of money 
I had saved from my Government employment and I was attempting 
various business ventures. 

I tried a vending machine route for awhile, I invested in a dance 
studio. 

Mr. Arens. ^Yliere were your investments in these businesses? 

Mr. Levine. Some in Washington, some in Chicago. 

Mr. Arens. Pick it up in 1954 then, if you please, sir. 

Mr. Levine. That was until 1955. 

Mr. Arens. Until 1955 ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes. 

Pick it up there, if you please. 

Mr. Levine. Recently I have gone to work in a typesetting estab- 
lishment, and I am learning the trade. 

Mr. Arens. From 1950 you have not been employed in the Federal 
Government, is that correct ? 

Mr. Levine. That is correct ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Could you kindly tell us the circumstances surrounding 
your employment with the Bureau of the Census in 1930 ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I don't understand 
yonr question, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How did you get your job in the Bureau of the Census? 

Mr. Levine, I took a civil-service examination and passed it and 
was hired. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Levine, are vou now a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Levine. No, sir ; I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel) . On the question of past 
associations, sir, I would invoke the immunity granted me by the fifth 
amendment, that I cannot be compelled to testify against myself. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3183 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Levine, were you a member of the Communist 
Party, say, a year ago ? 

Mr. Levine. I think my previous answer covers that. I would 
answer that on the grounds of any past association. 

Mr. Aeens. Well, were you a member of the Communist Party 
yesterday ? 

Mr. Levine. I think my answer covers. 

The Chairman. Do you decline to answer? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir; I decline to answer on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time during the period of your employment in the LTnited States 
Government ? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that under the immunity granted 
me by the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Were you a member of the Communist Party 
while you were employed by the War Department in Tokyo ? 

INIr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the im- 
munity granted me by the fifth amendment that I cannot be com- 
pelled to testify against myself. 

Mr. Arens. In these various sequences here, were you a member of 
the Communist Party while you were in the Bureau of the Census? 

]\Ir. Levine. My previous answer covers that, sir. I answered that 
on the ground 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment or transfer in any of the 
agencies in the Federal Government concerning which you hereto- 
fore testified, effected directly or indirectly by any person known by 
you to have been a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds of the 
privilege granted me by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, if you told this committee the facts 
and circumstances respecting participation by any person in the Com- 
munist conspiracy in your transfer from one agency to another, you 
would be supplying information which could be used against you in 
a criminal proceeding; is that correct? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I am apprehensive, 
sir, that this line of questioning might lead to something 

Mr. Arens. I am only asking you the status of your feelings. 

The courts have repeatedly said that the status of a man's mind is 
as much a fact as the status of his indigestion. I am asking you now : 

Do you feel if you were to tell this committee any answer with 
reference to any associations or activities you may have had with 
persons in the Communist apparatus that you would be supplying 
information which could be used against you in a criminal pro- 
ceeding ? 

Mr. Levine. I fear my answer to that might place me in such 
jeopardy. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in the Bureau of Labor Statistics, did 
you know Irving Kaplan ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I have no recollection 
of such a person at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know him at the War Production Board? 

70811— 56— pt. 3 6 



3184 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that on the grounds of the privilege granted me by the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Was Irving Kaplan in any way instrumental in your 
transfer from the Labor Department to the War Production Board ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that under the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at one time conduct a survey for the Advisory 
Commission to the Council of National Defense? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel) . I worked in a number 
of surveys, sir, for the defense agencies. I don't know just that one. 

Mr. Arens. Did you supervise a study of 11 defense industries in 
this Nation ? 

Mr. Levine. I worked on a survey, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you supervise it? 

Mr. Levine. I had people under me, but I also had people over me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic copy of a document 
which is headed "Description of Duties, July 1940 to May 1942," 
and ask you if that document is a true and correct reproduction of 
language which you formulated in giving a description of your own 
personal history ? 

Mr. Meyers. May I examine that, Mr. Counsel ? 

The Chairman. Surely. 

Mr. Arens. Incidentally, the only parts of that document I am 
presently exhibiting to the witness and the counsel are the first two 
pages. The other is material that I am holdiiig back for the moment. 

Mr. Meyers. Since I have no way of determining wliat portion of 
the document he may be bound to, I can't very well advise him, Mr. 
Counsel. Just these two pages ? 

Would they be so identified in the record so there can be no mistake? 

Mr. Arens. The entire document can go in. It is an application 
for a position. I was uncertain for the moment as to what was in the 
first part. 

Mr. Meyers. We have to examine the whole thing, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). Would you ask your 
question again, please ? 

Mr. Arens. Would the reporter kindly read it? 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Levine, Well, sir, that appeal's to be my signature on there. 
That was a long time ago. I have no recollection of the exact words. 

The Chairman. Did you examine it ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you recognize it as a result of the examination? 

Mr. Levine. I don't recognize it specifically, sir. That was in 1942. 

Mr. Arens. May I, Mr. Chairman, read some language from this 
document and see if it refreshes the recollection of the witness? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I will omit the first part of it. 

This is an excerpt from the previously mentioned document, "De- 
scription of Duties, July 1940 to May 1942" : 

To make special studies and surveys as required. For example, in December 
1940, I supervised a survey of operations of 11 defense industries in order to 
determine the extent of the "weekend blackout." The survey was made at the 
request of the Advisory Commission to the Council of National Defense. The 
survey involved the following duties on my part : 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3185 

Drafting of form letters and questionnaire, selection of sample of manufac- 
turing plants, laying out of forms for tabulating data, conducting correspondence 
with reporting establishmetits, preparation of confidential transcripts of indi- 
vidual plant reports for Office of Production Management, preparation of press 
releases and article for monthly Jabor review summarizing findings. 

Did you prepare this lano;uage which I have just read? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I don't remember the 
language specifically, sir, but I wouldn't deny it, 

Mr. Arens. Are the facts recited in the language which I have 
read to you true and correct ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I assume that it's 
correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. We do not want your assumption. 

On the basis of your best recollection, did you perform the activi- 
ties which I have recounted in the recitation of this language? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). To the best of my 
recollection, that is a correct statement, sir. 

The Chairman. At the time that you wrote that, were you a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of privilege 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. At the time you engaged in the activities recited here 
in this document, were you a member of the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Alluding to another paragraph in this document, and 
you will appreciate that I am skipping some of the preliminary lan- 
guage in which you are describing certain of your activities; may I 
read, Mr. Chairman? 

To plan and direct the activities of three units composed of approximately 
100 employees ranging in grade from P-2 to CAF-2 and engaged in: (a) The 
collection by questionnaire form of data for the War Production Board on the 
extent of current utilization of war production facilities; (b) the presentation 
of data thus obtained in proper tabular form; (c) the analysis of war plant 
operations and industrial differences in such operations; and (d) the prepara- 
tion of regular and special reports presenting findings, analyses, and apparent 
trends in war production as a basis for administrative action by the War 
Production Board, and frequently for publication ; 

Did you prepare the language which I have just read? 

Mr. Levine. I would answer the same as previously, sir. I don't 
remember the specific language but I would not — it sounds like what 
I may liave said at the time. 

Mr. Arens. Did you engage in the activities which are described 
here in the language which I just read? 

Mr. Levine. Approximately, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is this a true and correct presentation of the facts, the 
language which I have just read? 

Mr. Levine. Making allowance for the fact that that was stated 
some 15 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of these surveys have access to 
confidential information respecting the war potential and war facili- 
ties of this Nation ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). Well, sir, I think you 
should qualify your question with an explanation of what the word 
"confidential" denoted at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Use your own description and characterization. 



3186 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

What was the nature of the information to which you had access in 
the course of your supervision of this survey or these surveys ? 

Mr. Levine. The information I had access to was statistical reports 
from industrial establishments. 

The Chairman. In other words, you knew exactly what our de- 
fense potential was at that moment, did you not? 

Mr. Levine. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You had access to the figures that would give 
someone an opportunity to draw a conclusion, did you not? 

Mr. Levine. I don't understand, sir, what you mean by defense 
potential. I know that 

The Chairman. Well, let us say that you knew that Bethlehem 
Steel Co. could produce X number of guns for our battleships, did 
you not? 

Mr. Levine;. No, sir ; I did not know that. 

The Chairman. Did you not know what the capacity of each of 
the plants in America was with respect to defense material? 

Mr. Levine. Sir, I think if you want to delve into what I know, 
you should have a copy of this questionnaire that w^e worked with, 
It didn't have that kind of information. 

The Chairman. I just want to know what you had access to. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time make available to any person in 
the Coumiunist conspiracy information which you acquired pursuant 
to the surveys which we have been discussing here ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that question, sir, on the grounds of the privilege granted me by the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other Vv^ords, are you testifying here under oath 
before this Committee on Un-American Activities that if you told the 
truth respecting the transmission by you of information on our de- 
fense facilities of this Nation, you would be supplying information 
which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that on the grounds of the immunity granted me by the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer this question immediately preced- 
ing my present observation. 

The (jhairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Levine. Would you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Arens. Would the reporter read it? 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel) . I fear that an answer 
to this question might conceivably place me in jeopardy and there- 
fore I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Before we leave the War Production Board, will you 
tell this committee the names of any of its employees when you were 
employed there who, to your certain knowledge, were members of the 
Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel.) I decline to answer 
that on the grounds of immunity granted me by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. How did you happen to leave the War Production 
Board? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3187 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I was offered a job 
with the Army. 

Mr. Arens. ^Yho offered the job to you? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel) . I went to the civilian 
personnel office of the Army and applied for it. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment by the Army in 1946 facilitated, 
promoted, caused directly or indirectly by any person known by you 
to have been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, is it a fact that if you would tell this 
committee who was instrumental in causing your assignment from 
the War Production Board to the United States Army in 1946, you 
would be supplying information which could be used against you in a 
criminal prosecution ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I fear that such an 
answer might place me in jeopardy, and thei-efore I would decline to 
answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Now give us a job description of your activities in 
Tokyo when you were there with the Army. What did you do? 

Mr. Levine. Would you repeat it ? 

Mr. Arens. Wliat did you do in the Army in 1946 ? What were your 
duties, your assignments? 

Mr. Levine. I was assigned to a research and statistics unit there. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliere? 

Mr. Levine. In Tokyo. 

Mr. Arens. How long after you became employed with the Army 
did you go to Tokyo ? 

Mr. Levine. I don't recall, sir. It was a matter of days or weeks. 

Mr. Arens. Relatively short time, was it not ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Was your transfer or assignment to Tolcyo within the 
Army itself caused or promoted in any respect directly or indirectly by 
a person known by you to have been in the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Aeens. In other words, if you told this committee the truth 
with respect to the activities of some person known by you to have 
been a member of the Communist conspiracy with reference to your 
assignment to Tokyo, you would be supplying information which could 
be used against you in a criminal prosecution ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with comisel). I fear that such an 
answer might place me in jeopardy, sirs, and I refuse to answer on 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Wiile you were in Tokyo, did you have contact di- 
rectly or indirectly with Burgess or McLean ? 

Mr. Meyers. Would you identify them ? 

Mr. Arens. Communist espionage agents. 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). Were they assigned 
to the office 

Mr. Arens. If you are asking me, they were employed by the Soviet 
conspiracy, international conspiracy, identified as a facade in the 
British Embassy. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 



3188 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Meyers. May I ask if they worked in Tokyo when he was 
there? 

The Chairman. He has asked a very simple question. 

Mr. Meyers. Those are common names, Burgess and McLean. 

Mr. Arens. Did you while you were in Tokyo know men, one whose 
last name was Burgess and another man whose name was McLean? 

Mr. Meyers. What are their first names ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you know persons by those names ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I have no recollection 
of them at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Let us try the full name. Guy Burgess. Did you ever 
have any contact with him? 

Mr. Levine. I have no recollection of ever hearing of or seeing 
anybody by that name. 

Mr. Arens Donald McLean? 

Mr. Levine. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Whose staff were you on in Tokyo? 

Mr. Levine. In General Headquarters, Tokyo, General MacArthur. 

Mr. Arens. Who was your immediate superior? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). My superior was a 
man named Kenneth Morrow. 

Mr. Arens. Would you spell that last name? 

Mr. Levine. M-o-r-r-o-w. 

Mr. Arens. Would you give us again more specific detail on the 
assignments which you had in Tokyo ? I am talking now of the pro- 
fessional assignments and not any extracurricular assignments, 

Mr. Levine. My work in Tokyo was principally concerned with 
domestic prices of goods in Japan. 

For example, we were working up a method for having sort of a 
cost-of-living index so that the changes in prices could be measured. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have access to any confidential or restricted 
information either at headquarters or elsewhere in the course of your 
work. 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). Not to my recollec- 
tion, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know anyone in the headquarters who, to your 
certain knowledge, was a member of the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your employment in a civilian 
capacity with the United States Government in Tokyo, the Army, 
transmit any information of any character whatsoever to a person 
known by you to be a membsr of tlie Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that on tlie grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you transmit any information to any person un- 
authorized to receive the same, which information you acquired in the 
coTU'se of your employment in the headquarters of the United States 
Army in Tokyo ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that, sir, on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, are you now testifying under oath that 
if you would tell this committee truthfully whether or not you trans- 
mitted information acquired by you in the course of your employment 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3189 

at supreme headquarters of the Army in Tokyo, you would be sup- 
plying information which might be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

Mr. Levine. I fear that such an answer might conceivably place 
me in jeopardy if I answered, and I decline on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat caused your disassociation from the Army in 
Tokyo? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I was discharged. 

The Chairman. You were discharged ; is that the answer ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Your disassociation was in 1950 ? 

Mr. Le\t:ne. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Was that a voluntary disassociation or involuntary ? I 
do not believe the record is clear on that. 

Mr. Le\t:ne. I was discharged. 

Mr. Arens. Was that at your application or was it at the request 
of the Government ? 

Mr. Levine. I think the word "discharged" is self-explanatory, 
sir, isn't it ? 

Mr. Arens. Well, as I understand it, there are various kinds of dis- 
charges. There are honorable discharges, dishonarable discharges, — 
excuse me, you were a civilian employee, were you not? 

Mr. Levine. That is correct. 

Mr, Arens. Was your disassociation from the Army precipitated by 
a conclusion reached by your superiors bearing on your loyalty ? 

Mr. Le\^ne (after conferring with counsel). Sir, are you asking 
me what was in the minds of my superiors ? 

Mr. Arens. No, I am only asking you simply whether or not you 
were discharged as a security risk? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you discharged under Public Law 808 of the 
77th Congress? 

Mr. Le\t:ne. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any type of a loyalty hearing while you 
were with the Army ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). Sir, that is a matter 
of record probably, as you well know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have knowledge as to whether or not you were 
discharged as a security risk? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. He already said it is 
a matter of record. 

The Chairman. Yes, it is a matter of public record. 

I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Meyers. May I have a point of clarification so that I can ap- 
prise and counsel my client properly as to the meaning of that ques- 
tion? 

Mr. Arens. I would suggest the question speaks for itself. 

Mr. Meyers. It's not clear to me. 



3190 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. He has already given his answer. 

Mr. Meyers. You are asking for a direction. 

The Chairman. He declined to answer. 

Mr. Meyers. You have directed him, I understand. 

The Chairman. That is right. I direct him to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Meyers. Which means he is given another opportunity to an- 
swer the question, as I understand it ; is that correct ? 

The Chairman. That is correct. 

Mr. Meyers. I would like to hear the question and its clarification, 
if you will. 

Mr. Arens. If the reporter will read it, please. 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Meyers. Is that the question he is directed to answer ? 

The Chairman. That is it. 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). Sir, inasmuch as this 
infoi-mation is a matter of record and available to the committee, I 
am apprehensive as to the reason it is asked, and therefore I fear that 
my answer to it might conceivably place me in some jeopardy, and I 
therefore would like to avail myself of the immunity of the fifth 
amendment in not answering. 

Mr. Arens. I believe the record is clear that the chairman has 
ordered him to answer the question. 

While you were in Tokyo did you associate yourself with any organi- 
zations there? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). To my recollection, 
sir, the only affiliation I had in Tokyo 

(Counsel confers with witness.) 

The Chairman. Do not interrupt the witness; he has not sought 
your counsel. He is answering a question. 

Mr. Meyers. My witness has instructed me before the hearing. 

The Chairman. He was not seeking your advice. He was answering 
the question and you interrupted.. 

Mr. Meyers. ]My witness, prior to this hearing, instructed me to 
interrupt him at will. 

The Chairman. Proceed with the answer. 

Mr. Levine. May we start over and will you please ask the question 
again ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Reporter, will you read the question to him, please ? 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). May I consult with 
my counsel on this? 

The Chairman. Certainly. 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I belonged to a club 
there which was organized for social and recreational purposes. 

Mr. Arens, Was there any other organization with which you asso- 
ciated yourself while you wei-e in Tokyo other than this little club? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I find the question is 
rather broad and general and I fear that a positive response to it 
might place me in some conceivable jeopardy, and therefore I decline 
to answer. 

The Chairman. You experienced no difficulty in answering the 
question about this innocent little social club and it certainly seems 
to me you ought to be able to remember any other organizations. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3191 

Mr. Le\ine. Well, sir, I was there for 4^4 years and "organization" 
is rather a loose term. 

Mr. Arexs, Were 3^011 a member of any organization while you were 
in Tokyo M'hich, if you told this committee about it, you might be 
supplying information which miglit be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I am apprehensive as 
to where this question might lead to and that I might possibly be 
placing myself in jeopardy, and therefore I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party while 
you were in Tokyo ? 

Mr. Levine, I answered that question previously, sir, on the grounds 
of covering my past affiliation. 

The Chairman. Let us have an answer to this specific question. 

Mr. Le^^ne (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer on 
the grounds of the immunity granted me by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Kearney. Might I ask a question ? 

The Chairman. Certainly. 

Mr. Kearney. While in Japan working for the United States Gov- 
ernment, were you at any time engaged in subversive activities ? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that question, sir, on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Were 3^011 serving on General MacArthur's staff 
in any capacity whatsoever ? 

Mr. Levine. Well, sir, I was employed in the headquarters there. 
■ The Chairman. You were, were j^ou not ? 

Mr. Levine, Along with about 5,000 other people. 

The Chairman. I asked that question because of conferences I had 
with the general, and also as a result of information I received on 
my recent visit to Tokyo, where I was shocked to find that wdiile we 
were trying to set up in Japan and assist the Japanese, there were 
elements in our own forces who were attempting to sabotage that 
movement. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Were you required to and did you take an oath of 
loyalty as a prerequisite to your employment in a civilian capacity 
with the Army in Tokyo? 

Mr. Levine (after conferring with counsel) . I have no recollection, 
sir. 

The Chapman. This would be a good time to recess. 

We will recess until 2 o'clock. 

Mr. Myers. Are we excused ? 

The Chairman. We will just recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 10 p. m., the subcommittee recessed, to recon- 
vene at 2 p. m. of the same day. ) 

AFTERNOON SESSION WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1956 

(The following members of the committee were present: Repre- 
sentatives Walter (presiding) Doyle, Frazier, Willis, and Kearney.) 
The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 
Mr, Arens, Mr, Levine, will you kindly resume the stand ? 



3192 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

TESTIMONY OF MORRIS lEVINE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
IRVING MEYERS— Resumed 

Mr. Akens. Mr. Levine, during the course of your employment as 
a civilian in the United States Army Headquarters at Tokyo, did you 
have any contact with the consulates and embassies of foreign govern- 
ments in Tokyo ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine, I feel that the answer to that question might possibly 
lead to something which would place me in jeopardy, and I therefore 
would decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any contact with any persons who were 
known by you to be in the employ of a foreign government ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Do you include the Japanese Government in that ques- 
tion? 

Mr. Arens. Other than the Japanese Government. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I fear that the answer to that might lead to place me 
in jeopardy and I decline to answer it on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in Tokyo, did you have contact with 
any persons who were known by you to be in the employ of the 
Soviet Union or in the employ of one of the Iron Curtain governments ? 

Mr. Levine. On the same grounds, sir; I decline to answer that, 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. "VVhile you were in Tokyo, did you have any contact 
with any person who was known by you at the time to be part of an 
espionage apparatus of the international Communist conspiracy? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I am fearful that answering that question might lead 
to a situation which would place me in jeopardy and I decline to 
answer it on the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you fear that a truthful answer to that question, 
if given by you, as to whether or not you had contact with a member 
of the international Soviet Communist conspiracy, would furnish 
information which could be used against you in a criminal pro- 
ceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I understand, sir, on advice of my counsel, that I am 
not required to give the reasons why I claim the privilege of im- 
munity granted me by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I am not asking you for the reasons. I am only asking 
you for the status of your apprehension, the status of your mind. 
Do you honestly feel if you gave a truthful answer to that question 
as to whether or not you were in association or contact with known 
Russian Soviet Communist espionage agents, that the information 
which you would give could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I am apprehensive that this line of questioning might 
lead to an answer which might conceivably place me in jeopardy and 
therefore I claim the immunity of the fifth amendment. 



COIVIMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3193 

Mr. Arens. Did you, while you were in the employ of the United 
States Army at the Supreme Headquarters in Tokyo, transmit to 
any person information which came to you in the course of your 
employment who was not entitled to receive the same? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I fear, sir, that answering that question might con- 
ceivably place me in jeopardy and I decline to answer it on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time in contact with a person whose 
name — and I shall spell it so there will be no possible misunder- 
standing as to who he is — whose first name is Y-u-r-i, Yuri, and his 
last name Rastvorov, R-a-s-t-v-o-r-o-v, who has been identified as a 
Soviet spy and who was in Tokyo from 1950 until 1954? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I would like to state that I am apprehensive as to 
what is behind this line of questioning, that I am fearful that a truth- 
ful answer to the question might conceivably involve me in some 
jeopardy that I am not now conscious of. I would have to make 
the same answer if you asked me about any known Communist. I 
would therefore claim the privilege of the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens, You have stated, under oath before this committee, 
that you are not now a member of the Communist Party. That is 
correct, is it not ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are not now under Communist discipline. Were 
you under Communist discipline when you were in Tokyo? 

Mr. Levine. I will answer that the same as I answered the ques- 
tion when you asked me about past Communist affiliation, that I 
would invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. In other words, you decline to answer and invoke 
the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. It is public, common knowledge that certain of the 
military and political secrets of the United States Government did 
leak into the hands of the Soviet Union. You know that from public 
knowledge in the press, do you not ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I don't know specifically what you have reference to, 
sir, but I have read such things in the newspapers. 

Mr. Arens. Can you on the basis of your background and experience 
give to this committee of the Congress, representing the people of 
this Nation, any information in your possession respecting the trans- 
mission of any secrets of your Government to the Soviet Union ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Would you please repeat the question ? 

The Chairman. Read it, please. 

(Question read.) 

Mr. Levine. No, sir ; I know of no such information. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time transmit any information which 
came into your possession to any person in the International Soviet 
apparatus ? 



3194 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Levine. I am apprehensive that a truthful answer to that ques- 
tion might conceivably lead me into some jeopardy, and therefore I 
would decline to answer it on the grounds of the immunity granted m.e 
by the fifth amendment not to testify against myself. 

Mr. Arens. You know of course that such conduct would be a 
betrayal of the deepest trust a person could be possessed of, do you not ? 

Mr, Levine. Are you asking me for my personal opinion? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

(The Avitness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I think that is a true statement. 

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of your career in the Federal 
Service, and specifically when j^ou were in Tokyo, participated in a 
movement dedicated to the destruction of this Nation? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I am generally apprehensive of this line of questioning, 
sir, and I am afraid that a truthful answer to it might place me in some 
jeopardy that I am not presently aware of, and I must therefore 
decline to answer it on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Levine, on this public record in the course of the 
last day or so we have had a witness testify he had been a member 
of the Communist Party, but that the Communist Party did not issue 
Communist Party cards to persons who were employed in the Federal 
Government. With that background, I ask you whether or not you 
have ever been in possession of a Communist Party card. 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of the immunity granted me by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in possession of a Communist Party card 
while you were employed in the Federal Government? 

Mr. Levine. I would answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in the Labor Department did you know 
a person by the name of Bertha Blair ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]NIr. Levine. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you testify before this committee in executive 
session in Chicago on December 15, 1955? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Yes, as is well known to you by the record. 

Mr. Arens. In that executive session record you were queried with 
respect to your attitude if the committee should see fit to take a 
course leading toward immunity for yourself from criminal prosecu- 
tion if you would supply information to the committee. That is 
correct, is it not ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir : that is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Have you concluded in your own mind whether or not, 
assuming only for the sake of this question that the committee 
would take steps to provide you with immunity, whether or not you 
would accept such immunity and lay before this committee of the 
Congress information in your possession respecting the Communist 
conspiracy ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. As I stated to the committee in Chicago, sir, if such 
a situation should arise and if the immunity law is upheld in the 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3195 

courts and if the committee does offer it to me, I would consult with 
counsel at that time and decide what would be the proper course of 
action. 

Mr. Arens. Just so this record is absolutely clear, assuming only 
for the sake of this question that you could be granted immunity from 
criminal prosecution, would you then recount to this coimnittee all 
the facts and circumstances to the best of your recollection bearing on 
the security matters within the purview of the jurisdiction of this 
committee ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine, I woukl answer that, sir, the same as I answered the 
previous question, tliat in the light of such a situation I would obtain 
legal advice and do what I felt I was obliged to do. 

Mr, Akens. Mr. (chairman, there are no further questions by the 
staff. 

The Chairman. Why do you feel you have to have the advice of 
counsel ? 

Mr. Levine. I am not a lawyer and there are many legal technicali- 
ties that I do not understand. I would not do anything without the 
advice of counsel. 

The CiiAiRiMAN. If you are granted immunity that means you 
can't be prosecuted and, after all, that is the only reason you have 
counsel. 

Mr. Levine. If counsel so advises me I would do it, but I would 
certainly consult with counsel first. 

The Chairman. Any questions? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, one or two. 

Mr. Witness, back in 1941 you worked for the War Production 
Board. I believe. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Levine. I wouldn't say whether it was 1941 or 1942. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, back in 1941 or 1942 you were a Government 
employee in a very important agency. During your Government 
employment with the War Production Board did you attend Com- 
munist cell meetings? That was a good many years ago. You were 
a much younger man then. 

Mr. Levine. That is true. 

Mr. Doyle. You didn't know as much then as you do now ? 

Mr. I^EViNE. That is true of all of us. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the fact, whether or not you were a participant 
in Connnunist cell meetings back in 1941 and 1942? 

Mr. Levine. Sir, in order to avoid placing myself in possible future 
jeopardy, I would have to answer that question the same as I answered 
any question on past Communist affiliation. I would decline to 
answer it on the grounds of the immunity offered me by the fifth 
amendment not to testify against myself. 

Mr. Doyle. It is a fact, is it not, that right in Government property 
and in Government buildings in 1941 and 1942 you attended meetings 
of a Communist cell of which you were a member? The cell held 
meetings in the Government buildings, isn't that true? 

Mr. Levine. It seems to me, sir, you are asking me the same ques- 
tion over again. I would have to answer it the same way. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the fact with reference to your employment 
with the Government, in the Army, in 1946, as to whether or not you 



3196 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

were attending Communist cell meetings right in Government build- 
ings with other Communists. Were you or were you not i 

Mr. Lem:ne. As I stated before, sir, on the question of any past aflU.- 
iation, I answered before that I would claim the fifth amendment giv- 
ing me immunity not to testify against myself. 

iMr. Doyle. One more question : You testified that you were not a 
Connnunist today, that you are not subject to Communist Party discip- 
line now. What steps prior to today, previous to today, did you take 
to disassociate yourself from Connnunist Party control or discipline 
before you came into this witness room ? What did you do ? Did you 
send them a written comnnmication or did you phone them that you 
were out of the party, or what ? How did you get out of the Commu- 
nist Party ? That would interest us. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I dislike being repetitious, but it seems to me that you 
are asking me the same question in dili'erent forms. On the question 
of any past affiliation I fear that by answering I would place myself 
in jeopardy and I therefore must claim the privilege of the fifth 
amentlment. 

Mr. Doyle. One more question which I think is not repetitious at 
all in view of the fact that 3'ou are under oath and you have testified 
you are not now a Communist and not now under Communist Party 
discipline. Have you left the door open in any way so that after you 
are through testifying before this committee you can again go back 
into the Connnunist Party i That is not past affiliation. That is 
future. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I think 1 c;^n truthfully answer "No'' to that question.. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Frazier, any questions? 

Mr. Fr.\zier. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Willis? 

Mr. Willis. No questions. 

The Chairman. General Kearney ? 

Mv. Kearney. I would like to make this observation, Mr. Chairman. 
I noticed all through liis testimony there was a constant smile or smirk 
on the witness' face. Do you consider this in the manner of a laugh- 
able appearance of you on the stand here ? 

Mr. Levine. Sir, if you had suti'ered the consequences that I have in 
the last few years you wouldn't consider it a laughing matter. 

Mr. Kearney. Is that any fault of the committee? 

Mr. Levine. I don't know. 

Mr. Kearney. There was an observation made here some time ago 
that back in the forties you were just a boy. You were a boy 38 years 
of age, were j'ou not ? 

Mr. Levine. I made no such comment that I was a boy. 

Mr. Kearney. 1 think Mr. Doyle made the observation that you 
were just a bo}-. At that time you were 38 years of age, were you not? 

Mr. Levine. I was 38 at one time, yes. 

Mr. Kearney, That is all. 

The Chairman. No further questions. 

Do you have another witness? 

Air. Levine. Am I excused ? 

The Chairman. The witness is excused. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3197 

Mr. Arens. Either Miss or Mrs. Bertha Blair. 

Kindly remain standing and raise your right hand to be sworn. 

The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you ai-e 
about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth ? 

Miss Blair. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MISS BERTHA BLAIR, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

LEONARD HAYES 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Miss Blair. My name is Bertha Blair, Miss Bertha Blair, and 
I live in New York City at 74 Irving Place. I am doing clerical, sta- 
tistical work at the present time. 

Mr. Arens. For what agency or organization ? 

Miss Blair. I work for the National Council of Churches. 

Mr. Arens. Who is your immediate superior? 

Miss Blair. Mr. Whitman is my superior. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you ? 

Miss Blair. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Miss Blair. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself. 

Mr. Hayes. My name is Leonard Hayes, of Washington, D. C, and 
I am a member of the firm of Cobb, Howard & Hayes, of Washington. 

Mr. Arens. Miss Blair, are you now or have you ever been a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer that question on the ground of pos- 
sible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer the question on the ground of pos- 
sible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us a word of your personal back- 
ground, where you were born, when, if that isn't too embarrassing to 
a lady. 

Miss Blair. I don't mind. 

Mr. Arens. And also your educational background. 

Miss Blair. I was born in Duluth, Minnesota, in 1896, July 5. 
I finished high school in Duluth and went 4 years to college in St. Paul, 
Minn., Presbyterian College. I did 2 years of graduate work at Bryn 
Mawr College in Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Arens. When did you finish your education in Pennsylvania? 

Miss Blair. In 1929. 

Mr. Arens. Give us briefly, in thumbnail sketch form, if you please, 
the employments which you have had since you completed your formal 
education. 

Miss Bl.\ir. When I got out of college I taught school for a year. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that? 

Miss Blair. That was in Duluth. 

Mr. Arens. About what year was that ? 

Miss Blair. I graduated in 1919. It was the next year. 

Mr. Arens. That would be about 1920, then. 



3198 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Miss Blair. Right. 

Mr. Arens. All riglit, kindly proceed in the same pattern. 

Miss Blair. I taught school 1 year and then after that I did YWCA 
work in Kalamazoo, Mich., for 3 years. 

Mr. Arens. About 1921 to about 1924, something like that? 

Miss Blair. Something like that. I don't remember exactly. 

Mr. Arens. Just your best recollection. That was YWCA work? 

Miss Blair. Yes. 

Mr. Arexs. And the city, please? 

Miss Blair. Kalamazoo, Mich. 

Mr. Arens. Let us go on with the chronology. We will come back 
and talk about it later on. 

Miss Blair. Then I left that and went back. My mother wasn't 
well and I went back to Duluth, and meantime I took a business 
course and did a little bit of business work in a doctor's office. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that? 

Miss Blair. In Duluth. 

Then after that I took another YWCA job in Duluth. 

Mr. Arens. Was that about 1923-26 ? 

Miss Blair. Something like that, that is right. Then after that 
job I went to Bryn Mawr College in 1927 to 1929. 

Mr. Arens. Did you go there for graduate work? 

Miss Blair. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Where is Bryn Mawr College located ? 

Miss Blair. Bryn Mawr, Pa. 

Mr. Arens. Now let us pick up the thread of your narrative from 
there. 

Miss Blair. Yes. Then I w^ent into the Government service and 
I was there for a while. I decline to answer about my Government 
service on the grounds of possible incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Let us pause there for a moment. When did you enter 
Government service? 

Miss Blair. I entered after I finished Bryn Mawr. 

Mr. Arens. That was when? 

Miss Blair. In 1929. 

Mr. Arens. What department did you 

Miss Blair. I said I preferred not to ansAver the question on those 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I do not mean to be impolite, but the preferences and the 
determination of those matters are up to the committee. 

Miss Blair. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I request now that you tell this committee in what de- 
partment of the Government you first became employed in 1929. 

Miss Blair. Yes. I said I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you care to state the reason ? 

Miss Blair. On the grounds of possible self-incrimination. 

The Chairman. Just a moment. Do you mean to imply that you 
are afraid you might be prosecuted criminally for giving the name of 
a department of Government that you worked for in 1929 ? 

Miss Blair. I don't know, sir. 

The Chairman. I beg your pardon. 
(The witness conferred with her counsel) 

Miss Blair. You start one question and there are all sorts of other 
questions. That is the basis upon which I decline to answer. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3199 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question just asked. 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the grounds of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly accommodate the cominittee by sign- 
ing your name to that blank piece of paper so we can just see your 
signature? 

Miss Blair. Shall I do that [to her counsel] ? 
(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 
(The witness complied with the request.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this signa- 
ture be identified as "Bertha Blair Exhibit No. 1" for identification 
purposes only and to be made a part of the committee files. 

The Chairman. Let it be marked and made a part of the files. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a photostatic copy of an application 
for Federal employment on which a signature appears and ask you if 
that is your signature. 

Miss Blair. I guess you are as well able 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell whether that is your signature there? 

Miss Blair. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. That is your signature ? 

Miss Blair. I said I refused to answer on the ground that it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Will you just tell us whether or not this is your signa- 
ture appearing on this document? I think you may have misunder- 
stood my question. The document which I now lay before you is a 
photostatic copy of an application for Federal employment. There is 
a signature on it, is there not? 

Miss Blair. Yes, but I said I refuse to answer on the ground of 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat does the signature say? Would you kindly ac- 
commodate the committee by reading the name of the signature? 

Miss Blair. It says Bertha Blair. 

Mr. Arens. Is that your signature? 

Miss Blair. I said 1 decline to say. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you did enter the Federal service in October of 1929 
in the Labor Department. 

Miss Blair. Are you asking me another question? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Miss Blair. I said I decline to answer on the ground of possible 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you in the Federal service ? 

Miss Blair. Until 1949. 

Mr. Arens. What month of 1949? 

Miss Blair. I don't remember exactly. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in more than one agency of the Federal 
Government ? 

Miss Blair. I said I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question as to whether or not 
she was in more than one agency of the Federal Government. 

70811— 56— pt. 3 7 



3200 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question as to the num- 
ber of agencies of the Government in which you were employed. 

Miss Blair. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer on the ground of 
possible self-incrimination. 

The Chairman. Do I understand you to mean that you are afraid 
that you might be prosecuted criminally if you gave to this committee 
the names of the agencies of your Government by which you were 
employed ? 

Miss Blair. I explained the same reason that I gave before, that one 
question leads to another question, and I prefer to say at this point 
that I do decline on those grounds. 

The Chairman. I never knew that it was a crime to work for the 
United States Government. I always thought that people were proud 
of the fact that they were employed by the Government. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you this same document that we were talk- 
ing about a few moments ago. and direct your attention to the name 
of Victor Perlo, whose name appears in here as a reference for em- 
ployment by the apjjlicant whom you have identified here as a person 
called Bertha Blair. 

Do you have any recollection at any time of giving the name of Vic- 
tor Perlo as a reference for employment by yourself in the Federal 
Government ? 

Miss Blair. The answer is the same as it was before. I decline to 
answer on the grounds of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. The date of this document is June 1948. In June of 
1948 were you employed by the Federal Government ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel) 

Miss Blair. I think I was. It was a period between jobs that I 
w^ent to the Government. I think it was back in there about 1948. I 
don't know what period. I wasn't there very long. 

Mr. Arens. About how long were you not in the Federal Govern- 
ment in the period between 19129 and 1949? 

Miss Blair. I think about a year, something like that. 

The Chairman. With the exception of one year you were in the 
employ of the Federal Government continuously from 1929 to 1949? 

Miss Blair. Almost. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of this period from 1929 to 1949 did 
you know a person by the name of Morris Levine? 

]\Iiss Blair. I decline to answer on the grounds of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, Morris Levine was your immediate 
supervisor at one time in the Department of Labor, was he not? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the grounds of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time in the employ of the Yugoslav 
Embassy ? 

Miss Blair. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Arens. When was that? 

Miss Blair. That was after I left the Govermnent. 

Mr. Arens. Was that immediately after you left the Govermnent ? 

Miss Blair, No ; I don't think so. It was 2 or 3 months maybe. 

Mr. Arens. What occasioned your employment in the Yugoslav 
Embassy? 

Miss l^LAiR. 1 had to work. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3201 

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your employment in the Yugo- 
slav Embassy ? • ^ ^ m ^ 

Miss Blair. It was clerical work, typing and general ottice work. 

Mr. Arens. Who was your immediate supervisor? 

Miss Blair. I can't remember his name. A guy by the name of 
Yekovitch. 

Mr. Arens. Had vou had contact with any person m the \ ugoslav 
Government prior to the time that you went there as an employee? 

Miss Blair. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have contact witli tlie Yugoslav Government 
while you were in the employ of the United States Government? 

Miss Blair. I was working for the Yugaslav Embassy, if you call 
that the Yugoslav Government. I was working for the Embassy. 

Mr. Arens. That is what I meant. Perhaps I didn't make myself 
clear. 

Did you have contact with the Yugoslav Embassy in the course of 
your work while you were an employee of tlie United States Govern- 
ment ? 

Miss Blair. Only in the capacity of my work. 

Mr. Arens. How did you h.appen to have contact with the Yugoslav 
Embassy ])rior to the time that you became an employee there. 

Miss Blair. I heard about the job. 1 don't remember who I heard 
about the job from. 

Mr. Arens. I may not have made my question clear. Let me start 
over again. In the course of your work in the United States Gov- 
ernment did you have any contact with the Yugoslav Eml^assy ( 

Miss Blair. No. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment in the Yugoslav Embassy o<ra- 
sioned to your knowledge directly or indirectly by any person known 
by you to have been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer that on the grounds of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. In how many different agencies of the United States 
Government were vou employed in the course of this period fi-om 
1929 to 1949 ? 

(The witness conferred with lier counsel.) 

Miss Blair. I refuse to answer that question on grounds of pos- 
sible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that C|uestion. 

The Chairman. Yes, I direct vou to answer the question, ]SIiss 
Blair. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Blair. Mr. Chairnum, 1 refuse to answer on the same grounds 
of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, that in 1929 you were em- 
ployed in the Labor Department, in the Women's Bureau, and ask 
you to affirm or deny the fact. 

Miss Blair. The answer is the same. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, that thereafter in 193«) you 
were employed in the Kailroad Retirement Board in Washington 
and ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Miss Blair. The same answer. 



3202 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that thereafter, in 1943 you were in the employ of the Na- 
tional War Labor Board in Washington. 

Miss Blair. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
tlie fact, that thereafter in 1944 you were employed in the War Pro- 
duction Board in Washington, D. C. 

Miss Blair. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that thereafter you were employed in the Civilian Pro- 
duction Administration beginning in 1945 in Washington, D. C. 

Miss Blair. The same answer, 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that thereafter in 1947 you were in the Commerce Depart- 
ment in Washington, D. C. 

Miss Blair. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that thereafter you were engaged and employed in the 
Bureau of the Census in the Commerce Department in Washing- 
ton, D. C. 

Miss Blair. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer each and every one of the fore- 
going questions pertaining to the particular agencies in which she 
is alleged to have been employed. 

The Chairman. Yes. I direct you to answer those questions. In 
view of the fact that you have admitted that you were employed by 
the Federal Government, I certainly do not see why you refuse to 
answer those questions. 

Miss Blair. Congressman, I decline to answer on the ground of 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party while you 
were engaged in YWCA work in Michigan from 1921 through 1924. 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party as of the 
time you assumed your duties with the National Council of Churches ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time been the subject of a loyalty 
investigation or hearing, to your knowledge ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time sign a form in the Federal Gov- 
ernment service bearing on the issue of membership in the Com- 
munist Party or in any organization dedicated to the violent over- 
throw of the United States Government ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not she 
ever signed such a form. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3203 

Miss Blair. I am sorry, Congressman, but I feel that I must decline 
to answer on the ground of possible self-incrimination. 

The Chairman. Do you decline to answer the question? 

Miss Blair. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What are your duties with the National Council of 
Churches ? 

Miss Blair. I explained that I was doing clerical work. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time made any representation to your 
superiors in the National Council of Churches respecting any par- 
ticipation by yourself in the Communist Party or in any apparatus of 
the Communist conspiracy ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the gTound of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been connected with the American 
League for Peace and Democracy? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you were a member of the American League for Peace 
and Democracy in the Washington branch while you were engaged in 
the service of the Federal Government. 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny the 
fact that you were also a member of the Washington Bookshop, the 
Washington Committee for Democratic Action, and the Marian An- 
derson Citizens Committee while you were engaged in the Federal 
service. 

Miss Blair. I decline to answ^er those question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time in the course of your employment 
in the Federal Government ever transmitted information which you 
derived in the course of your employement to a person who was not 
entitled under the law to receive the same ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the gi'ound of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time engaged in what is commonly 
known as espionage ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean to tell this committee, then, that if you 
would tell the truth respecting whether or not you had engaged in 
espionage, you would be furnishing facts which could be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of pos- 
sible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer this question. 

The Chairman. May I hear the question ? 

(Question read.) 

The Chairman. Yes, I direct you to answer that question. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Blair. It is my belief that I might not know wliat the cir- 
cumstances presented to me would be, and on that ground I assert my 
rights under the fifth amendment of possible self-incrimination. 

The Chairman. And decline to answer the question ? 

Miss Blair. And decline to answer the question. 



3204 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Did George Silverman have any tiling- to do, directly or 
indirectly, to your knowledge, with your employment in the Railroad 
Retirement Board? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge did a person by the name of Irving 
Kaplan have anytliing to do directly or indirectly with your employ- 
ment in the War Production Board? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time in the course of your employment 
in the Federal Government suspended or discharged by the agency in 
whicli you were employed ? 

Miss Blair. I decline to answer on the ground of possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question. Miss Blair. 
. Miss Blair, I am sorry, but I decline to answer the question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, there are no further questions at this 
time by the staff. 

The Chairman. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr, Frazier- No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Willis? 

Mr. Willis. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kearney? 
. Mr. Kearney, No questions. 

The Chairman. I understood you to decline to answer the question 
as to your membershi]) in the American League for Peace and De- 
mocracy on the ground that to answer the question might tend to in- 
criminate you, that it might expose you to a criminal prosecution. 
By that do I understand you to mean that this organization was a 
Communist organization ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Blair. I have answered the same question about other organi- 
zations. I decline to answer this question also, I did decline and I 
still do decline, 

Tlie Chairman, That is all. 

The witness is excused. 

Tlie Committee wdll be in recess for ten minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

The Chairman, The Chair wishes to announce that the open ses- 
sions will be recessed to meet tomorrow in Room loo4 in the New 
House Office Building, 

(Whereupon, at 2: 55 p, m, Wednesday, February 15, the commit- 
tee was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a, m. Thursdav, February 16, 
1956.) 



INVESTIGATION OF C0M3IUNIST INFILTRATION 
OF GOVERNMENT— PART 3 



THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1956 

Uni'ied States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. 0. 

PUBLIC HEARINGS 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
at 10 : 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 1334, New House Office 
Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter, of 
Pennsylvania (presiding); Clyde Doyle, of California; James B. 
Frazier, Jr., of Tennessee ; Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana ; Bernard 
W. Kearney, of New York; and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Stall' members present : Richard Arens, acting counsel, and Court- 
ney E. Owens, investigator. 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

Call your next witness. 

^i\\ Arens. Mr. Henry Rhine. Will you kindl}' come forward. 
Remain standing and raise yom' right hand to be sworn, please. 

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give 
will be the trutli, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God. 

^Ir. Rhine. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF HENRY RHINE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
JAMES T. WRIGHT 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Henry Rhine, will you kindly identify yourself by 
name, residence, and occupation. 

Mr. Rhine. My name is Henry Rhine, R-h-i-n-e, 3606 Manor Park- 
way, Louisville, Ky. At present I am unemployed. 

]NIr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you? 

Mr. Rhine. A"es, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Rhine. Yes, sir. 

May I suggest that I would prefer not to have my picture taken, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself. 

Mr. Rhine. May I ask that my picture not be taken in this confer- 
ence room, please? 

The Chairman. The rule of the committee is that before 

3205 



3206 CO]VI]MTJNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Rhine, I wish to protest. 

The Chair^iax. That before a witness testifies pictures may be 
taken. That is the rule of the committee. 

Mr. Rhine. I wish to protest, and I don't want the use of these 
pictures. That is all. I am telling you, Mr. Chairman. I meant to 
mention it first, but out of courtesy to your counsel I answered his 
question. I want to make it clear that I don't want my picture taken 
while I am in the witness chair here. 

Mr. Arens. AYill counsel kindly identify himself for the record 
now? 

Mr. Wright. My name is James T. Wright. I am an attorney-at- 
law. My offices are located at 2003 Twelfth Street N^Y., here in 
Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens, How do you spell your last name ? 

Mr. Wright. W-r-i-g-h-t. 

Mr. Arens, Mr, Rhine, will you please give us a word of your early 
life prior to the time that you became self-sustaining as an adult. That 
is, your place of birth, your education, a thumbnail sketch of your 
youth. 

Mr. Rhine. I was born in the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Rhine. New York City. 

]Mr. Arens. When ? 

Mr. Rhine. August 23, 1908. 

Mr. Arens. ITour education ? 

Mr. Rhine. Well, I went through the regular public schools, public 
grade and high schools of Xew Y'ork City and went to the University 
of Wisconsin. I graduated from the University of Wisconsin in 1933. 
I received the degree of Bachelor of Philosophy, I believe. I got my 
job in the Government — I think it was November of 1933. 

Mr. Arens. Please tell us in what agency of the Government you 
became employed in November 1933 ? 

Mr. Rhine. The National Recoveiy Administration. 

Mr. Arens, Where was that? 

Mr, Rhine, In Washington, D, C. 

Mr, Arens, Without including any extraneous details, kindly give 
us the sequence of your emplovments since you first became employed 
by NRA in 1933. 

Mr. Rhine. As I recall, Mr. Counsel, I was in the NRA in 1933 to 
1935, December of 1935. Then I believe in December of 1935, roughly, 
to June of 1936 I worked for the Senate Interstate and Foreign Com- 
merce Conmiittee, perhaps for about a year, and then for a short time 
beginning about June of 1936 I worked for the National Research 
Projects, WPA. All these three positions were in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Will you proceed and trace your employment. 

Mr. Rhine, In about June of 1937, after having quit my Government 
service, I went to work for the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity and where ? 

Mr, Rhine, I was working for the CIO as a national organizer for 
the CIO, assigTied to the United Federal Workers of America. I 
remained in that position with headquarters in Washington, D. C, 
until about the latter part of 1942, as I remember. It has been some 
time ago, but I would say about October 15, 1942, I took a job aa 
the organizer for the CIO United Electrical, Radio, and Machine 
Workers of America (UE). 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3207 

Mr. Arens. And where were you employed ? 

Mr. Rhine. My assignment mainly was in Philadelphia, Pa. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you maintain that employment? 

Mr. Rhine. About 12 years or a little bit over 12 years. 

Mr. Arens. Until about 1954, then? 

Mr. Rhine. I would say 1955, the end of March 1955. 

Mr. Arens. If you will continue, please. 

Mr. Rhine. At that time I was employed as an organizer for the 
United Furniture Workers of America, CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Did you disassociate yourself from UE and then as- 
sociate yourself with the United Furniture Workers? 

Mr. Rhine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. That occurred in 1955 ? 

Mr. Rhine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. As an organizer ? 

Mr. Rhine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Was that in New York City ? 

Mr. Rhine. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In what city were you employed ? 

Mr. Rhine. Louisville, Ky. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you maintain that employment ? 

Mr. Rhine. Close to 8 months, December 15, 1955, or December 17 
to be exact, as I recall. 

Mr. Arens. Have you had any other employment since December 
17,1955? 

Mr. Rhine. No, sir, 

Mr. Arens. Have you had any income since December 1955 ? 

Mr. Rhine. Income from whatever source, you mean? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Rhine. I receive a small amount under the survivors benefit, 
two children under 18, as a result of the death of my wife. I have 
applied for unemployment compensation and I am sure I will get it. 
I haven't gotten it to date. 

Mr. Arens. I think it would be helpful to the committee if we could 
begin now to fill in some of the substance of your activities. Who was 
your immediate superior during the period 1933 to 1935 when you 
were employed in the NRA here in Washington ? 

Mr. Rhine. As I recall, at that time I worked for the Consumers 
Advisory Board and one Mr. Dexter Keeser, the first name, D-e-x- 
t-e-r, the last name, K-e-e-s-e-r — I am sure of that spelling — who was 
the head of that particular Board of the National Recovery Adminis- 
tration. He was in charge of that Board. 

Mr, Arens. Who was instrumental principally in causing your em- 
ployment with the Wheeler subcommittee of the Senate Interstate and 
Foreign Commerce Committee beginning in 1935 ? 

Mr. Rhine, Well, I don't recall exactly how that happened, but 
the NRA had been declared unconstitutional around that time, and 
as I remember it, I stayed on with NRA and then was transferred to 
the Senate committee, I think it was investigating railroads. Still, 
as I remember, I was on the NRA payroll as a transferee. 

Mr. Arens. You were on loan, then, to this Senate subcommittee. 

Mr. Rhine. That is probably so, if my recollection holds me in 
good stead. I think there was one division of the NRA which was 



3208 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

known as the Trades Practices Division, which was able to continue 
after the act had been declared unconstitutional. 

Mr. Arens. What function did you perform for the Senate sub- 
committee under Senator Wheeler? 

Mr, Rhine. I was somewhat a junior analyst, or clerk, or whatever 
3'ou would like to call it. I wasn't there very long. It was a matter 
of just doing some limited phase of the investigation of the railroads, 
I think mainly paperwork, statistical work. I don't believe that I 
ever had to interview any railroad oflicial or anything of that sort. 
I think it was limited to the paper detail work of that investigation 
under Senator Wheeler. 

Mr. Arens. While you were with the Senate committee did you 
have occasion either in the course of your duties or otherwise to make 
trips to New York City ? 

Mr. Rhine. My recollection is tliat I had no reason to make any 
trips outside of Washington for the Senate Interstate and Foreign 
Commerce Committee. 

Mr. Arens. Aside from the performance of your duties as a mem- 
ber of the staff of the Wheeler committee, did you make any trips, of 
any character, for any purpose, to New York City? 

(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Counsel, I gather that you mean in regard to my 
personal life or whatever I wanted to do ? 

Mr. Arens. For any purpose or reason whatsoever. 

Mr. Rhine. I should imagine that during that period I may well 
have visited my family in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Did your family remain in New York City ? 

Mr. Rhine. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. About how often in the course of a year would you go 
to New York City? 

Mr. Rhine. Not very often. It might have been a weekend for a 
special occasion or it might have been a vacation or whatever. I 
Avould go to New York and see my mother and father and my many 
brothers and sisters and the entire family, which is a rather large one. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of these trips did you have occasion to 
have any contact with people in New York City who were employed 
in the Office of the Federal Coordinator of Transportation ? 

Mr. Rhine. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in New York City on these sojourns, did 
you have occasion to have contact with a person by the name of 
James E. Gorham? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I would like to know more, Mr. Counsel, about who Mr. 
James Gorham is. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a person by the name of James E. Gor- 
liam, identified with the Federal Coordinator of Transportation about 
this period in 1934 and 1935 ? 

Mr. Rhine. Did I know him in New York City ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir ; or know him anywhere ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Perhaps I can refresh your recollection by suggesting 
the names or 1 or 2 other individuals whom you may have been ac- 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3209 

quainted with at that time in the course of those visits to New York 
City. Did you know a person by the name of Albert Bhimberg? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. EiiixE. My answer to that question will be to assert my priv- 
ilege under the Constitution and assert the privilege of using the 
fifth amendment. 

'Siv. Arexs. Did you know a person by the name of Eleanor Nelson 
about this period of time we are talking about, 1934-35 ? 

Mr. Rhine, My answer is that T will assert the privilege of using 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. About this time were you instrumental in forming the 
American Federation of Government Employees or in promoting 
the work of the American Federation of Government Employees in 
Washington ? 

Mr. Ehine. I think it is common knowledge that as a Government 
emplovee I was an officer of local 91 of the A. F. of L. union, in the 
NRA.' 

Mr. Arexs. Of the American Federation of Government Em- 
ployees? 

Mr. RiiixE. Yes, I believe that was the name of the organization. 
I was the vice president of the local and the chairman of the grievance 
committee and I might point out that I spent a good deal of mj- 
adult life in the labor movement. 

INIr. Arexs. Did you have occasion to go to New York City in con- 
nection with any of the activities of the American Federation of 
Govermnent Employees i 

]Mr. RniXE, No, because I was in AYashington working with one 
local of that international union of the A. F. of L. 

Mr. Arexs. Did you as an officer of the American Federation of 
Government Employees have sessions in New York City with persons 
who were identified there with the Office of the Federal Coordinator 
of Transportation ? 

Mr. Rhix'^e. No, I did not. I was not an official of the American 
Federation of Government Employees. I was an official of a local 
or, as it was known then, of a lodge. 

Mr. Arex'^s. We are talking about 1934 or 1935, are we not, Mr, 
Rhine? 

Mr. Rhine. If that is the period you are talking about, I was in 
the American Federation of Government Employees until we estab- 
lished the CIO United Federal Workers of America, which was the 
summer of 1937. 

Mr. Arexs. Tell us with what other organizations you were con- 
nected during this period 1934-35 ? 

Mr. Rhixe. Do you mean other trade unions ? 

Mr, Arenas, Any other organizations. We will take trade unions 
and go right down the list now so we will have them all. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhixe. As a matter of fact, being the representative of local 
91 of the A. F. of L. union in the Government service in NRA, I was 
a delegate to the American Federation of Labor, Washington council, 
or whatever it is called. It was called the American Federation of 
Labor Central Labor Union. And perhaps 1 or 2 other trade-union 
groups. I think for a while I was a delegate to the district council of 



3210 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

the American Federation of Government Employees, that is, the 
Washington conference. 

Mr. ioiENS. Does that exhaust the list of the organizations of which 
you were a member in 1934 and 1935 ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I have no recollection of organizations other than the 
trade unions that I was affiliated with at the time. 

Mr. Arens. Let's get your testimony absolutely clear for this rec- 
ord. Is your testimony that other than the trade union organiza- 
tions, you were not affiliated with any organizatiton in 1934 or 1935 ? 

Mr. Rhine. I have no recollection of affiliation with other organiza- 
tions. If you have a list there you tell me. I am not familiar. 

Mr. Arens. Let's move on to 1935 and 1936 while you were with 
the Senate Wheeler commmitte. Wliile you were with this Senate 
subconunittee, could you tell us the names of the people you knew who 
were then on the staff ? 

Mr. Rhine. As I remember it, I was on that committee for about 
6 or 7 months at most, carrying on 1 limited phase. I just have a recol- 
lection about one person who was a supervisor in my Government 
employment. I think his name was Goldschmidt. That is about all I 
recollect. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of his first name ? 

Mr. Rhine. No. I think his nickname was "Tex," but I don't have 
any other recollection of his name. 

Mr. Arens. Is he the only person you knew on that Wheeler com- 
mittee? 

Mr. Rhine. I can't think of others offhand. As I said, it was a 
limited kind of work. It was in one office. It didn't require much 
other than looking over figures, as I recall. That is about it. That 
was some time ago. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have occasion to know a man by the name of 
Herbert Fuchs either on the committee or in connection with its activ- 
ity in which you may have been engaged ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. My answer to that question is to assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States ? 

Mr. Arens. Who was Jessica Rhine ? 

Mr. Rhine. Jessica Rhine has been my wife, is the mother of three 
of my children. 

Mr. Arens. Did you and Jessica Rhine ever belong to any or- 
ganization together? 

Mr. Rhine. Trade union oganization ? 

Mr. Arens. Any type of organization. 

Mr. Rhine. Wlien I was an official of local 91 of the A. F. of L. 
Jessica Rhine was an official of local 91 of the American Federation of 
Government Employees, A. F. of L. I believe she was secretary- 
treasurer. 

^ Mr. Arens. You. and she, then, were co-members of this organiza- 
tion ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Rhine. Of local 91 of the American Federation of Govern- 
ment Employees, A. F. of L. 

Mr. Arens. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Rhine. Yes. 



COJVOrUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3211 

Mr. Arens. Tell us some other organization, if you can recall, in 
which you and Jessica Rhine were co-members. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Rhine. I don't have any recollection of any other organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Do you deny that you and Jessica Rhine were co-mem- 
bers of any other organization ? 

(The w^itness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I neither affirm nor deny. I just don't remember, 

Mr. Arens. During the time that you. were in the American Fed- 
eration of Government Employees did you receive orders, directions, 
or were you under the discipline of any group or person allied with 
some other organization ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. The only aid or help that I got was that from the trade 
union group. That was the only influence and experiences that I 
encountered during that period. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time during your employment by the 
Senate Wlieeler committee or during your entire tenure of office with 
the American Federation of Government Employees also the leader 
of any other group or entity ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a couple of questions here ? 

The Chairman. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. When did you go to work for the the Interstate Com- 
merce Committee in the Senate? 

Mr. Rhine. As I recall it, it was about December of 1935. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you describe to us your duties with that committee 
of the Senate ? 

Mr. Rhine. In slight detail, I believe I did. It was pretty much 
a desk job, statistics and figures and some limited phases of the 
investigation. 

]Mr. Scherer. What type of investigation ? 

Mr. Rhine. I believe that was Senator Wheeler's committee investi- 
gating the railroads at that time. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you assigned to any subcommittee? 

Mr. Rhine. I don't recall whether it was a subcommittee. All I 
knew was that it was Senator Wlieeler's committee staff and I was 
working there. It was a small staff unit of that committee. As I 
stated, I may still have been on the NRA payroll on loan. I am not 
sure. I believe I was. 

Mr. Scherer. Is that the same committee that James E. Gorham 
was working for at the same time ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I don't know. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know a James Gorham? I will withdraw 
that question. 

Wasn't he employed by the Wheeler committee the same time you 
were? 

Mr. Rhine. I don't know. 

Mr. Scherer. Then we go back to the other question : Did you know 
a James Gorham? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



3212 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Sclierer, my answer is that I have already asserted 
the privilege of the fifth amendment in regard to that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you refuse to answer this last question, then on 
the basis of the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Rhine. Which is your last question ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Whether you knew" James Gorham as a fellow stafi 
member. 

Mr. Rhine. Yes ; that is right ; my answer is to assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know Herbert Fuchs ? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Scherer. Wasn't Senator Truman at that time the chairman 
of that subcommitte investigating the financial condition of the rail- 
roads ? 

Mr. Rhine. If he was I didn't know it. I knew it was Senator 
Wheeler's committee. 

Mr. Scherer. How did you obtain your employment with the 
Senate committee? 

Mr. Rhine. As I recall, it was a transfer on a loan from NRA. 
I had been with the NRA from the early days, relatively, until it was 
declared unconstitutional, and a number of people were transferred 
to other jobs for awhile, still on the NRA payroll. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you make application for a transfer to that 
committee ? 

Mr. Rhine. I don't recall. I must have filled out some kind of 
application or paper and went over there, but I am not sure that I did. 
I just don't recall that in any detail. I wasn't there for a very long 
time. I think all the time I was there I was on the NRA payroll. 

Mr. Scherer, Did you obtain the transfer as a result of some action 
on your part ? Did you initiate the transfer or did somebody in NRA 
send you over there ? 

Mr. Rhine. I think the people in NRA were interested in placing 
a number of the employees and that may have been it initially. I 
know that I kept my job and was able to transfer over there. 

Mr. Scherer. You don't know who was responsible for the transfer ? 

Mr. Rhine. No ; I don't. I could only think it might be somebody 
in that Consumers Advisory Board, the Board where I was employed 
or the Trade Practices Section of that Board of the National Recov- 
ery Administration at that time. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you a member of the Comnumist Party when 
you worked for the Senate committee ? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment in regard to that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know who was transferred with you from 
NRA to the Senate committee? 

Mr. Rhine. No. 

Mr. Scherer. You are familiar with James Gorham's testimony 
concerning you ; are you not ? 

(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. Only to the extent of what I saw in tlie press, not to 
any detail, just what I saw in the press. 

Mr. Scherer. Was anything that he said about you as reported in 
the press untrue ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3213 

Mr. Rhine. My answer to that question, Mr. Sclierer, is to assert 
the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know of any other members of that Senate 
committee statf who were members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer to that question, Mr. Scherer, is to assert 
the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong at any time to a group or organization 
in which you engaged in activities in concert with Harry Dexter White, 
of the United States Treasury Department ? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answer. My answer is that I will assert the 
privilege of the fifth amendment. 

jNIr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you were in an underground group between 1933 and 
1934 in Washington, D. C, consisting of yourself, Harry Dexter 
White, George Silverman, John Abt 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is the same 

Mr. Arens. And Victor Perlo. 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is the same. I assert the privilege of the 
fifth amendment against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, if you told this committee the truth in 
response to that question which I have just asked you 

Mr. Rhine. I always tell the truth. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that you would l)e furnishing information 
which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Rhine. ]My answer is the same. I assert the privilege of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question, Mr. Rhine. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. Will you repeat the question, please, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that if you should tell this committee the 
truth respecting whether or not you had been identified with these 
j^ersons I have named in this underiiTound group, that you would 
be supplying information which could be used against you in a crim- 
inal proceeding? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I respectfully decline to answer this question except 
in the same way that I liave answered the others. I assert the privilege 
of the lifth amendment against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. The record will show, Mr. Chairman, that he has been 
ordered and directed to answer this question. I was interested in your 
observation that you always tell the truth. Have you ever been a 
member of an organization which is dedicated to obtain its objectives 
by deceit and lying? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever in the course of your Federal employ- 
ment transmitted information which came to you in the course of 
that employment to a person who was not authorized by law to receive 
the same ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 



3214 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. ScHERER. Just a moment, Counsel. 

Witness, do you mean to say that you won't tell this committee 
whether you ever engaged in espionage against the Government of the 
United States? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. My answer to you, Mr. Scherer and to the committee, 
is that I am asserting the privilege of the fifth amendment against 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Scherer. Who interviewed you when you got your job with 
the Senate committee ? 

Mr. Rhine. With the Senate committee? As I remember — I am 
not too sure but as I remember it was this Mr. Goldschmidt, for whom 
I went to work. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Goldschmidt? 

Mr. Rhine. Goldschmidt, I think. I am not too sure of the spelling. 
I think it was G-o-l-d-s-c-h-m-i-d-t, something like that. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you remember his first name? 

Mr. Rhine. I said earlier, all I remember is his nickname. They 
called him Tex, if I remember. Recollection has it that it may have 
been Arthur, but I am not sure about that. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to aflUrm or deny 
the fact that you were a member of the Harry Dexter White espionage 
ring in the Government of the United States from 1933 to 1934? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer, Mr. Counsel, is to assert the privilege of 
the fifth amendment to the constitution. 

Mr. Arens. I have put it to you as a fact. Was I lying or was I 
telling the truth? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answer. My answer is that I will have to 
assert the use or the privilege of the fifth amendment to the Consti- 
tution against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Was your disassociation from the Senate committee 
in 1936 and your employment in the WPA caused directly or indirectly 
by any person known by you to have been a member of the Communist 
conspiracy ? 

Mr. Rhine. I respectfully will submit that my answer is the same 
and I will assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Who engaged you in the CIO in 1937? 

Mr. Rhine. As I recall it, I think I was interviewed by Mr. John 
L. Lewis and Mr. John Brophy at the time. I think they were the 
two. Perhaps there were others. I knew others, but I don't remem- 
ber. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio was your immediate superior ? 

Mr. Rhine. There was a liaison. I was responsible to Mr. Brophy 
and later to Mr. A. D. Lewis, John L.'s younger brother, as I recall. 
Within the United Federal Workers of America I believe the presi- 
dent of the organization was one Mr. Jacob Baker, so I guess in that 
sense I would be responsible to him. 

Mr. Arens. During the period which you have described from 
1937 to 194i2, in which you were an organizer both for the CIO and 
subsequently for the United Federal Workers, were you under disci- 
pline of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer to that is that I will have to and I will and 
hereby do assert the ])rivilege of the fifth amendment against possible 
self-incrimination. That is my answer. 



COMMUlSriST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3215 

Mr. Arens. I again allude to your self-esteem which you have pro- 
nounced here in respect to your always being an adherent of the truth. 
Do you likewise commend yourself for your patriotism to this Nation 
or do you have an allegiance to a foreign-controlled conspiracy 'i 

Mr. Rhine. My answer to that question is to assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. It is the information of the committee on a public 
record, Mr. Rhine, that you Avere identified at one time or another 
with eight different Communist cells within the Government of the 
United States. We are giving you now an opportunity to serve your 
country and to give additional embellishment to your character by 
recounting to the Committee on Un-American Activities of the United 
States Congress the location, identification and personnel of these 
eight Communist cells with which you were, according to sworn testi- 
mony, identified during your service as an employee of the United 
States Government. 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you with the United Federal Workers of 
America ? Until 1942 ? 

Mr. Rhine. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Who was head of the United Federal Workers at that 
time ? 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Jacob Baker, as I remember. 

Mr. Arens. Was Abram Flaxer identified with that organization 
during your tenure of service as an organizer ? 

Mr. Rhine. No. 

Mr. Arens. Was the United Federal Workers Communist con- 
trolled? 

Mr. Rhine. I will assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did the United Federal Workers subsequently merge 
with 1 or 2 other governmental unions, to form the United Public 
Workers of America ? 

Mr. Rhine. I believe possibly it did. I had already left that or- 
ganization and I am not in a position to tell you for sure. I was no 
longer with it, having left it in 1942. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know a man by the name of Ewart G. Guinier 
in any of the Government unions ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I don't know him. 

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of your career been an instruc- 
tor? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Rhine, I lay before you a photostatic copy of a 
document which has come into the possession of the House Committee 
on Un-American Activities entitled "Catalog of the Philadelphia 
School of Social Science and Arts, 1704 Walnut Street, Philadelphia 3, 
Pennsylvania," and invite your attention specifically to page 8 of this 
document. At the top of it appears the name of Henry Rhine, 
R-h-i-n-e, as one of the instructors m that institution. I ask you if you 
can refresh your recollection as to whether or not you are the person 
alluded to in that document as Henry Rhine. 

70811—56 — pt. 3 8 



3216 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

(The witness conferred with his counseL) 

Mr. Rhine. I see the photostatic copy, but I will assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Does it refresh your recollection in any manner with 
respect to your professorial career ^ 

]\Ir. Rhine. Will you repeat the question? I didn't hear the last 
part of it. 

Mr. Arens. Does this document which I have just exhibited to you 
refresh your recollection in any manner with respect to your career 
as a professor or instructor? 

Mr. Rhine. The same aiisMer in regard to this printed document. 

JSIr. Arens. Did you instruct in the Philadelphia School of Social 
Science and Art in Philadelj^hia, Pa. ? 

Mr. Rhine. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the record 
at this point show that this institution has been cited as a Communist- 
controlled front by the Attorney General of the United States. 

What was your activity in the United Electrical Workers besides 
just organizing? Did you engage in any other activity? 

Mr. Rhine. I don't fully understand your question. Such as, what 
other activity? 

Mr. Arens. What were your duties as outlined to you by your 
superior when you were engaged as an organizer for I'E ? 

Mr. Rhine. I don't know what my duties were as outlined by any 
superior. I know generally what my duties were as an organizer. I 
heljjed organize the unorganized in any industry. I helped negotiate 
certain contracts. In other words, I organized, I negotiated, and I 
serviced local unions. 

Does that answer your question ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you engage in any other activities as an organizer 
for UE? 

Mr. Rhine. What do you mean by other activities? 

Mr. Arens. Did you engage in any activity in the nature of pro- 
curement of information from plants to which you may have had 
access? 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr, Rhine, My answer to that question is to assert the privilege of 
ihe fifth amendment, 

Mr. Arens. As an organizer for the UE did you have access to any 
establishments which we would in common parlance refer to as a 
defense establishment? 

(Tlie witness conferred witli liis counsel.) 

Mr, Rhine, My answer to that question is to assert the privilege of 
the fifth amendment against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that (question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that (juestion, Mr. 
Rhine. 

Mr. Rhine. ]Mr. Walter and members of the committee, I respect- 
fully decline to answer it, excepting to answer it in the way that I have 
already answered it, and that is to assert my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

The Chairman. Where were you engaged in this organizational 
work? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3217 

Mr. Rhine. It is kiiOAvii as District No. 1 of the United Electrical 
iRadio and Machine Workers, and the headquarters were in Philadel- 
plna, covering- eastern Pennsylvania, southern New Jersey, Delaware, 
I believe, and perhaps Maryland and Virginia. That was the district. 

The ('iiAiKMAX. Did you participate in the organization of the 
employees of the Ingersoll-Rand Co. ? 

Mr. Rhine. No. That was across the river, across the Delaware 
River. That is another district. I did not, Mr. Walter. 

Mr. Akens. What contracts did IJE hold while you were an organ- 
izer in this district headquartered in Philadeljjhia? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. My answer Avill be to assert the privilege of the fifth 
amendment in regard to your question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question, Mr. Rhine. 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Walter and committee members, I respectfully 
submit that the only answer that I can give is the answer to assert the 
privilege of the fifth amendment. 

The CHAiiaiAN. Will you tell us who was working with you in this 
orgariizational work ? 

jNIr. Rhine. ]My answer Avill be to assert the privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 

The Chairman. Did you assist in the organization of the employees 
of the Pennsylvania Pump & Compressor Co.? 

Mr. Rhine. Where is it located? 

The Chairman. Easton, Pa. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Walter, I respectfully submit that my answer is to 
assert the tifth amendment privilege. 

The Chairman. Do you know Ernest Moyer? 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Walter, the same answer. I will assert the privi- 
lege of the hfth amendment, against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Did vou engage in what might be called political activ- 
ity in 1948 and 1949"? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. You were vice chairman of one subdivision or unit of 
the Progressive Party of Pennsylvania, were you not? 

Ml'. Rhine. ^ly answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Was the Progressive Party of Pennsylvania controlled 
by the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answei-. I will assert the privilege of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign a statement in behalf of the Communist 
leaders who were convicted under the Smith Act in New York City? 

Mr. Rhine. Will you repeat the question? 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign a statement on behalf of the 11 convicted 
traitors who appeared before Judge Medina in New York City? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is to assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 



3218 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you, Mr. Witness, a photostatic copy of the 
Daily Worker of New York, Friday, October 21, 1949, page 3, on 
which there is an article entitled "Unionists Form Committee To Win 
Freedom for 11," and I invite your attention specifically to the name 
of "Henry Rhine, UE international representative," which appears in 
that article as one of the signers, so it is alleged by this paper, and I 
ask you if that refreshes your recollection in any respect in regard to 
signature by yourself. 

Mr. Rhine. Yes, I see the photostatic printed copy. 

Mr. Arens. Do you see this name here "Henry Rhine," too ? 

Mr. Rhine. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment against 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign such a statement? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answer, Mr. Counsel. I assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your disassociation from the UE ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. As far as I recall, I was laid off. 

Mr. Arens. Who laid 3^ou off? 

Mr. Rhine. Oh, it is the usual form. 

Mr. Arens. I say who did it ? 

Mr. Rhine. I should imagine it was the director of the organization, 
the man in charge of the staff. 

Mr. Arens. Was it in any way precipitated by a difference of opin- 
ion over any extracurricular activity in which you may have been 
engaged ? 

Mr. Rhine. Of course I will assert the privilege of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Who obtained your job for you in Louisville as an 
organizer for the furniture workers ? 

(The witness conferred w^ith his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. Mr. Counsel, my answer is to assert the privilege of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Was the man who hired you an honorable, honest, and 
truthful man ? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever traveled outside the continental United 
States? 

Mr. Rhine. As I recall it, in my youth I took one trip to Canada. 
That would be the only time that I was outside of the United States. 
One trip on my way to school I hitchhiked via Canada. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever made an application for an American 
passport? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rhine. I haven't, no. 

Mr. Arens. AVhat caused your disassociation from the United Fur- 
niture Workers Union? 

Mr. Rhine. I was laid off. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mr. Rhine. For various reasons. I don't know. Curtailment of 
staff. It was a straight lay-oft' as far as I know. 

Mr. Arens. What were you told was the reason? 

Mr. Rhine. Curtailment of staff. 



COJVIMUNIST rNTFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3219 

Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, there are no further questions by the 
staff at this time. 

The Chairman. Are there any questions ? 

Mr. DoTLE. I have one. 

In your organizational "srork for UE did your territory include 
Newark, N. J.? 

Mr. Rhixe. Xo, sir, Mr. Doyle. That was not in my area. Only 
southern Xew Jei'sey would have been my area at that time. 

Mr. Doyle. I sat with the subcommittee of this committee at New- 
ark, X. J., several months ago. and the sworn testimony, which was un- 
contradicted at that hearing, was that there was a tussle within the 
CIO-UE workers organization at Xewark, in Xew Jersej' and southern 
Xew York, between the members of a Communist cell who were also in 
the union and the loyal union workers who were not in the Commu- 
nist cell. I am wondering if the fact of the existence of that Com- 
munist cell within the board of directors or trustees of the UE organi- 
zation at Xewark, and thereabouts ever came to your attention. Did 
you hear of that tussle and controversy ? 

Mr. Rhixe. Mr. Doyle, I respectfulh' submit that my answer is to 
assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. DoTLE. Did you attend any of those Communist cell caucuses 
which were held by the Communist Party members who were also mem- 
bers of the UE organization? 

Mr. Rhixe. The same answer. My answer is to assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment to that question, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Dotl,e. Are you able to help us understand how it is that a few 
Communist Party members within an organization, according to the 
testimony at Xewark, were able to get control of the policy of a union 
as large as that one? I think there were over three or four thousand 
members. How can a handful of union member? ]oin a Conmiunist 
cell and get control of the union of 2 or 3 thousand members? 

Mr. Rhixe. I respectfully submit, Mr. Doyle, that my answer is 
to assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. DoTLE. Frankly, I was hoping, Mr. Rhine, now that you are out 
of organized labor, according to 3'our testimony, as far as organiza- 
tional work and employment are concerned, that you might now be in 
a position where you could give Congress the benefit of j'our experience 
of many years. 

I know that the work of organizers of unions such as UE of neces- 
sity brought you into contact with some Communist Party cell opera- 
tions in the UE, according to sworn testimony. 'Why aren't you in a 
position to help us get at that Communist conspiracy within organized 
labor? We are not after organized labor. We are only after the 
Communist Party activity within organized labor. 

Wliy aren't you able to help us so that we can report to Congress in 
the field of legislation and possibly- obtain approval of legislation to 
meet that problem? 

Mr. Rhixe. Mr. Doyle, I respectfully submit that my answer to 
that question is the same and that I assert the privilege of the fifth 
amendment against possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. DoTUE. May I say to you that I happen to know that you have 
been in a very, very important position within labor over the course of 
years. I think the time will come before too long when you will, 
shall we say, see the light and put the interests of your country and 



3220 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

organized labor ahead of your present desire not to give Congress 
information as to Communist Party cell operations within the UK 
while you were in that union. 

The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kearney ? 

Mr. Kearney. No questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

James Gorham has been referred to before, the witness who testified' 
before this committee on Tuesday of this week. He was asked this 
question by counsel : 

Tell us about the unit to which you were attached upon your arrival here in 
Washington. 

Mr. Gorham replied : 

That is what I am doing. The union, once it got in Washington, or the group, 
once it got in Washington, chose lue to act as president of the local, and as such 
I attended meetings of district department of the American Federation of Gov- 
ernment Employees. 

At one such meeting, or at a meeting of the Central Labor Union, I am not 
sure which, some 3 months after coming to Washington, in other words about 
February I think of 1935, I ran into Henry Rhine whom I had mentioned as 
1 of the 3 people who had met with us in New York. 

Mr. Arens. As a Communist? 

Mr. Gorham. Yes, sir. ]\Ir. Rhine and I recognized each other and he took 
me over to his house where I met his wife, and later he took me to a meeting oi 
the Communist Party unit in NRA. Since there were no other Communists 
aparently in the Railroad Retirement Board, I was attached to the NRA group. 

Then Mr. Arens asked Mr. Gorham this question : 

Kindly identify these 4 or 5, or as raany of them of whom you have a 
recollection. 

Mr. Gorham. There was Mr. Rhine, his wife Jessica Buck Rhine ; there v.as 
Mr. John Donovan, whom I had known on the Columbia campus as a leadiu'; 
Communist. 

You have an opj^ortunity here, Mr. Witness, either to affirm or deny 
the testimony of Mr. Gorham given to this committee under oath on 
Tuesday of this week. 

Is anything that Mr. Gorham said in that testimony about ^''ou 
untrue ? 

Mr. Rhine (after conferring with counsel). I, Mr. Scherer, will 
answer by asserting the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. You do not deny then, as I understand, anything that 
he said as being true? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answ^er. I will assert the privilege of the 
fifth amendment concerning anything that Mr. Gorham said. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you deny the fact then that Gorham, along with 
you, was transferred from the NRA to the Senate committee? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is the same as before, asserting the privi- 
lege of the fifth amendment with regard to this. 

I gather you said Mr. Gorham now works for the NRA. When I 
read it, he was not with the NRA. 

Mr. Scherer. I think I am wrong. From the NRA cell of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Rhine. I assert the pi-ivilege of the fifth amendment in regard 
to anything Mr. Gorham said in regard to your question. 



1 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3221 

Mr. ScHEKEK. You are right ; Mr. Gorham did not work for the 
NRA but, because he was the only one in the Raih'oad Retirement 
Board group who was (\Mmnunist, he testilied that he was assigned 
with you to the NRA Communist cell within NRA. 

Were there any others who went from the NRA Communist Party 
cell along with you and Gorham to the Senate Wheeler committee? 

Mr. Rhine. The same answer, to assert the privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. ScHEKEK. Who else was transferred with you from NRA itself 
to that Senate committee ? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is the same. I will assert the privilege of 
the fifth amendment against possible self-incrimination, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to 
answer that question because I did not ask him anything about Com- 
munist Party membershiji; I asked what other employee of NRi\. was 
transferred with liim from NRA to the AVheeler connnittee. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Rhine. You may recall, Mr. Walter, that I said earlier in this 
testimony that I didn't know and, however, I still continue to assert 
the privilege of the fifth amendment against possible self-incrimina- 
tion by the question. 

Mr. Scherer. You say you did not know who was transferred with 
you ? Do you know who was transferred ? 

Mr. Rhine. I remember not being able to recall any name or any 
person being transferred with me at that time and I did answer the 
question that way. However, I still state, so that there will be no 
misunderstanding, that my answer to your question is to assert the 
privilege of the fifth amendment against any possible self-incrimi- 
nation. 

The Chairman. I have no further questions. The witness is 
excused. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I do not know what the record shows 
with reference to pi'esent membership. 

The Chairman. Very well. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Rhine, are you now a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Rhine. My answer is the same as before. I assert the privilege 
of the fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further? 

The witness is excused. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, is Mr. 
Marcel Kistin, K-i-s-t-i-n. 

Mr. Wright. May I ask, does this finally excuse this witness? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Kistin, would you kindly come forward ? Please remain stand- 
ing and raise your right hand to be sworn. 

The Chairman. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Kistin. I do. 



3222 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

TESTIMONY OF MAECEL S. KISTIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BENJAMIN LORING YOUNG 

Mr. Arens. Would you please identify yourself by name, residence 
and occupation? 

Mr. KiSTiN. My name is Marcel Kistin. I live at 24 Grandview 
Road in Arlington, Mass. I am a lawyer. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been engaged as a lawyer? 

Mr. Kistin. I have been engaged as a lawyer since I graduated 
from law school in 1949. 

Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Kistin. Yes, sir ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Kistin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself ? 

Mr. Young. Benjamin Loring Young of Boston, a member of the 
bar of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the Federal bars of 
New England. 

Mr. Arens. Are you associated with others in the practice of the 
law? 

Mr. Young. No, I practice alone. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kistin, please give us the place and date of your 
birth. 

Mr. Kistin. I was born in Paris, France, on March 6, 1909. 

Mr. Arens. "V^Hien did you come to the United States? 

Mr. Kistin. We came to the United States in 1912. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a citizen of the United States? 

Mr. Kistin. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Arens. "Wlien were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Kistin. By derivation through my father's citizenship papers 
in May of 1925. I believe that is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Give us if you please, sir, a word with respect to your 
education prior to the time you became self-sustaining. 

Mr. Kistin. I was educated in the schools of New York City and 
got my bachelor's degree at the University of Wisconsin in 1935. 

Mr. Arens. IVliat degree did you receive from that university ? 

Mr. Kistin. Bachelor of Arts degree. I got my law degree in Har- 
vard Law School in 1949. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do between 1935 and 1949 ? 

Mr. Kistin. Between 1935 and 1949 I spent approximately 7^ 
years in the civilian Government service and a little over 31/^ years, I 
believe, in the Armed Forces. 

Mr. Arens. Would you please pick it up in 1935 after you received 
your bachelor of arts degree from the University of Wisconsin ? Tell 
us the agency of Government in which you were employed and the 
approximate dates. 

Mr. Kistin. I was employed by the WPA in 1935, I believe it was 
the early part of 1935, and I was employed there until sometime in 
1940. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere was this employment ? 

Mr. Kistin. In Washington, D. C, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity were you employed ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3223 

Mr. KisTiN. As a clerk. I believe, I don't want to be held to this 
but I believe the title was some form of statistical clerk. It was a 
clerical job. 

Mr. Arens. Just in skeleton form continue with an outline of your 
employment. 

Mr. Kjstin. I was then employed by the Farm Security Adminis- 
tration in the Department of Agriculture between 1940 and 1942, when 
I entered the Armed Forces. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a thumbnail sketch of your Army service. 
You entered in 1942? 

Mr. KiSTiN. In 1942. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you serve ? 

Mr. KisTiN. I served both here and abroad. I believe I entered the 
Army in about May of 1942. If the date is essential, I might be able 
to check it for you. 

Mr. Arens. No ; that is substantially accurate enough. 

Mr. KiSTiN. Do you want details ? 

Mr. Arens. Wliere did you serve ? 

Mr. Ktstin. In the Pacific theater. I was in this country from May 
of 1942, the date of my induction, whatever the date is, until sometime 
in 1943, and then I went to Guadalcanal. I was there about 15 months, 
I believe. 

I then went to the Philippines, and thereafter to Japan for a few 
months, and I was then sent home and discharged. 

Mr. Arens. Pick up the thread of your narrative there, if you 
please, sir. 

Mr. KisTiN. I was then, after a short period, employed by the Wax 
Assets Administration. 

Mr. Arens. In Washington ? 

Mr. KisTiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Kjstin. My exact title I don't remember ; it was some form of 
statistical work that I did, I believe. I don't remember, but I think 
it was some economist's grade, but again I would not recall exactly. 

Mr. Arens. Did you likewise about that period work in the RFC? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Sir, may I say at this point, with respect to employ- 
ment and official statements as to payroll attachments, I would not 
know. 

Now that you mention the RFC, I have some vague recollection that 
there were some payroll affiliations as between the War Assets and the 
RFC, but in commonsense layman's language, I understood that I was 
working for the War Assets Administration. 

Mr. Arens. For how long did you work in this agency, whether 
it is RFC or War Assets Administration ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I worked for the War Assets Administration, I am 
quite sure, for less than a year. 

Mr. Arens. That gets us to about when ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. It gets us to about the beginning of 1947, at which 
point I left and entered the Harvard Law School. 

Mr. Arens. Was that about January of 1947 ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Yes, sir ; I believe that is right. 

Mr. Arens. If you please, sir, cover the rest of the period until 
the present date. 



3224 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. KisTiN. Thereafter I went to the Hain^ard Law School and 
was frradiiated and was pretty much on my own for a sliort while, 
I don't know how short, a year and a half perhaps, worked at tem- 
porary research jobs, whatever I could get until my present affili- 
ation! believe in October, yes, I believe it was October, of 1951. 

Xo, I am sorry; strike that. I believe it was February of 1951 
when I made my present association. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your employment back in WPA, 
did you have occasion to become acquainted with and did you become 
acquainted with an individual by the name of James E. Gorham, 
G-o-r-h-a-m ? 

Mr. KisTiN. With respect to that question, sir, I shall decline to 
answer it and I sliould like at this point, if I may, to state the several 
grounds upon which I shall decline to answer that question, as well 
as all similar questions with, if I may, the understanding, sir, that 
with respect to future questions you might ask, if I should designate 
the same answer I mean that I decline to answer on all of the grounds 
which I should now like to state severally and individually. 

First, sir, on the ground that under our Constitution I may not 
be compelled to testify as a witness against myself. 

The CiiAiRMAX. As a lawyer, you know there is moi'e to the con- 
stitutional provisions than you just stated. 

Mr. KiSTiN. Yes, sir; I do. 

Mr. Arens. This is not a criminal proceeding. 

Would you hesitate right at that point, sir? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Xo, sir; I should like to state all of my grounds and 
I should also like to say that I have no intention of being provocative 
when I do so. I merely would like to state the grounds without 
getting involved in a legal justification for the grounds which I, with 
all due deference, don't feel constrained to do. 

My second groimd for declining is that our Constitution guar- 
antees us the rights of freedom of speech and of assembly. 

Furthermore, on the ground that these proceedings, in my view, 
ai'e contrary to the spirit of due process and the separation of powers 
and, finally, sir, on the ground that this line of questioning can serve 
no legislative purpose, particularly with respect 

The Chairman. There is nothing in the Constitution which war- 
rants your advancing that as a reason for not answering a question. 

The question of whether or not the Congress is proceeding properly 
in protection of the rights and the privileges of the citizens and se- 
curity is one for the Congress. The Supreme Court, by a long line 
of decisions, has laid down that rule. 

We are concerned with legislation. We are at the present moment 
considering legislation designed to prevent a repetition of the sort 
of thing that these hearings have revealed existed. 

If you have constitutional reasons for declining to answer, that is 
one thing. You have given us the constitutional reasons. 

Proceed. 

Mr. KisTTN. I merely intended to answer that last ground was 
particularly with res]:)ect to the identification of names. 

The Chairman. You have injected something into this hearing 
that is not properly before this committee. It is argumentative for 
another thing. 

Mr. KisTiN. I am sorry, sir ; I did not mean to be argumentative. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3225 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Witness, Mr. James Gorhani testified before this 
vommittee under oath that while he was enipk)yed with tlie WPA 
about the same period of time yon were emph>yed there, that he knew 
yon to a certainty as a member of the Commnnist Party. Was he 
lying or w\as he telling the trnth ? 

- Mr. KisTiN. I decline to answer, sir, on the same gronnds as previ- 
joiisly stated. 

Mr. Arens. Yonr Federal service record, as you have indicated 
here, shows that 3'ou were transferred from one agency to another. 
Were you ever in the Agriculture Department ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Yes, sir; I have already said that I was with the Farm 
Security Administration in that Department between 1940 and the 
time that I entered the Armed Forces. 

Mr. Arens. Was your appointment in the Agriculture Department 
directly or indirectly, to your knowledge, occasioned by the activity 
of any person known by you to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. KisTiN. My employment with the Farm Security Administra- 
tion, to answer the questi(m in detail, was as a result of my inquiring 
around to find out where I could get some employment other than 
WPA, because I had become displeased with where I was, and dis- 
(Covering that there was possibly an opening in Farm Security, sir, I 
Avent up there and applied. I have no knowledge of the source of 
my information at the present time. 

Mr. Arens. Would you accommodate the committee, Mr. Kistin, by 
signing your name for us *. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Kistin. On advice of counsel, sir, I shall decline to do so on 
the same grounds. 

■ Mr. Arens. You feel that if you woidd sign your name and ac- 
connnodate this committee to that extent, you would be furnishing 
information which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding; 
is that correct? 

Mr. Kistin. I decline, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer this question. 

The Chairman. Yon are directed to answei'. 

]\Ir. Kistin. I respectfully decline on the same grounds. 

;Mr. Arens. Mr. Kistin, I lay before you a photostatic copy of an 
application for Federal employment in which appears the signature 
of a ])ei'son. Marcel S. Kistin, K-i-s-t-i-n, and ask you if that is your 
signature. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

]\rr. Kistin. I beg your pardon, sir. Flow did you identify this? 

Mr. Arens. It is a photostatic copy of a document entitled "Ap- 
l)lication for Federal Employment," on the back of which appears a 
signature, Marcel S. Kistin, K-i-s-t-i-n, and I ask if that is your 
signature. 

Mr. Kistin. I decline, sir, respectfully, on the same grounds 

]\Ir. Arens. What grounds? 

Mr. Kistin. On the grounds that I have previously stated. 

j\[r. Arens. Do you honestly feel that if you should answer a ques- 
tion as to whether or not this is your signature on the document which 
I hold in my hand that you would be supplying information which 
^could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 



3226 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. KisTiN. I decline to answer, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. KiSTiN. I respectfully decline, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kistin, may I invite your attention to question 
No. 26 on this photostatic copy of the document entitled "Application 
for Federal Employment," and the date, may I say is June 24, 1946. 
Question No. 26 is : 

Do you advocate or have you ever advocated or are you now or have you ever 
been a member of any organization that advocates the overthrow of the Govern- 
ment of the United States by force or violence? If your answer is "Yes," give 
complete details in item 38. 

On this particular document, Mr. Kistin, you will observe that the 
answer there is "No." 

Did you cause that answer to be inserted on the original of the 
document, the photostat of which I am laying before you ? 

Mr. Kistin. I respectfully decline to answer, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you gave a truthful 
answer to this question I just asked you that you would be supplying 
information which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Kistin. I decline, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that he be directed to answer that quiestion. 
That is a test that we must ask under the Supreme Court's decision. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer. 

Mr. Kistin. Would you please repeat that question ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you should give a 
truthful answer to the question which I have previously posed to you, 
with respect to Question 26 of this form, that you would be supplying 
information which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding i 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Kistin. I respectfully decline, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, he must answer that question in the 
affirmative. 

The Chairman. He has declined. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand, but the purpose is to show whether 
or not he is invoking the fifth amendment in good faith. 

The Chairman. That is up to him. 

Mr. Arens. On June 26 of 1946, did you fill out an application for 
Federal employment? 

Mr. Kistin. I don't recall filling out an application for Federal 
employment — strike that. You said when — I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. On June 24, 1946, did you fill out an application for 
Federal employment? 

Mr. Kistin. I decline respectfully, sir, on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Kistin. I respectfully decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you on June 24, 1946 make a representation to your 
Government that you have never advocated, or have never been a 
member of an organization that advocates, the overthrow of the Gov- 
ernment of the United States by force or violence ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3227 

Mr. KisTiN. I respectfully decline to answer, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. As of June 24, 1946, were you a person who had never 
been a member of an organization that advocated the overthrow of 
the Government of the United States by force or violence ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I respectfully decline, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Who was your supervisor, while you were in the Agri- 
culture Department ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. At the Department of Agriculture, I was in the Farm 
Security. I believe it was called the Labor Division, and the chief of 
the Labor Division was Nathan Gregory Silvermaster. 

Mr. Arens. Can you further identify him for us ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. With respect to what ? 

Mr. Arens. Tell us what you might know about him. 

Mr. KiSTiN. He was my chief at the Labor Division. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only thing you knew about him ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. With respect to my official work in the Govern- 
ment ? 

Mr. Arens. Let us not quibble; you know what I am driving at. 
What association did you have with Nathan Gregory Silvermaster 
while you were in the Labor Division ? 

Mr. KisTiN. My association with Nathan Gregory Silvermaster was 
as employee and employer. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only relationship you had with him? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I was not attempting to quibble, sir. What I had in 
mind is that it is perfectly clear to this committee as it is to me that 
Mr. Silvermaster's name figured prominently with respect to this com- 
mittee, and that is the only thin^ I had in mind. 

The Chairman. I would not limit that to just this committee. 

Mr. KiSTiN. I didn't follow his career that closely. 

Mr. Arens. He has been identified as an agent of a foreign-con- 
trolled conspiracy dedicated to the violent overthrow of this Govern- 
ment, has he not ? 

Mr. KisTiN. On the basis of reports that I have read in the news- 
paper. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only information you have respecting any 
identification he may have had with this Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time a member of any organization 
in concert with Nathan Gregory Silvermaster? 

Mr. KisTiN. I should like you to identify more clearly what you 
mean by organization. If he and I were both members of the Repub- 
lican or Democratic Party, I should 

Mr. Arens. Let us do it this way : 

Let us enumerate every organization in which you and Nathan 
Gregory Silvermaster were co-members. 

Mr. KiSTiN. I am not aware of having been a co-member with 
Nathan Gregory Silvermastei". I have no knowledge of having been a 
co-member with Nathan Gregory Silvermaster in any organization 
other than my official contact with Mr. Silvermaster. 

Mr. Arens. While you were in the Agriculture Department, did 
you possess knowledge that Nathan Gregory Silvermaster was a 
Communist ? 

Mr. KisTiN. No, sir ; I did not. 



3228 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time, prior to the public revelations of 
Nathan Gregory Silvermaster's Communist Party membership, ac- 
quire knowlege that he was a Communist? 

Mr. KiSTiN. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Arens. I take it then that you and Nathan (xregory Silver- 
master were not engaged in concert in any Communist Party activity ; 
is that correct? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I have already answered that question, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will you answer it again ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. My answer was that I have no knowledge that 
Nathan Gregory Silvermaster and I were together in any organiza- 
tion. I have no knowledge of that. I have no present knowledge of 
having been with him in any organization. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party while 
you were engaged in the services of the Federal Government in the 
Agriculture Department with Nathan Gregory Silvermaster as a 
supervisor ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were there any persons, to your knowledge, within the 
Agriculture Department, with yourself excluded, Avho were members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge did Nathan Gregory Silvermaster 
have anything to do wdth your appointment at the Agriculture 
Department? 

Mr. KisTiN. Not to my knowledge ; no, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Had you known him prior to the time that you assumed 
your status in the Agriculture Department ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. While you were woi'king for the Federal Government 
in any of these agencies you have described, did you at any time trans- 
mit information which came to you in the course of your employment, 
to a person who was not by law entitled to receive the same? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I have never knowingly done so ; no, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time ever deny Communist Party mem- 
bersiiip to your Government? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I decline to answer tliat on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever possess a Communist Party card? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I believe I have already answered that question. I 
decline to answer that one on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What were the reasons for your resignation fi-om tlie 
War Assets Administration ? 

Mr. KisTiN. I resigned from the War Assets Administration in 
order to realize a lifelong ambition and go to law school. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Comnumist Party as of the 
thne you disassociated yourself from the Federal Government? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I respectfully decline to answer that one, sir, on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. xVrens. To your knowledge, have you ever been the subject of a 
loyalty hearing? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3229 

Mr. KiSTiK. I don't recall ever appearing; at a loyalty hearing. 
"Whether or not I had been investigated, I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Do yon have any knowledge that yon have been inves- 
tigated ? 

I think we can pnt it a little more affirmatively on this record. 

Mr. KisTiN. I beg your pardon ; yes, sir, I do. I believe that there 
was — I am not sure of this — I believe there was a security check done 
while I was in the Army. I don't know why. I understood, I was 
told, as I recall it, that it was a routine security check in connection 
with 

Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your employment in the Fed- 
eral Government or in the course of your service in the United States 
Army ever have access to conhdential or restricted information? 

Mr. KisTiN. I don't believe so, sir, except to this extent: That in 
the Army obviously I had contact with a great tieal of information 
which might have been of some use to the enemy had they gotten it. 
I presume that every soldier 

Mr. Arens. Would it have been of use to the Soviet Union? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I haven't any idea to whom it might have been of use. 
It was our information. I am talking now — I was in the engineer 
depot on Guadalcanal for 15 months — and I suppose if the Japanese 
kneAv what was in that depot it might have been of some use to them. 
In fact, while I was there they blew up one of the ships in the haibor. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a man bv the name of Herbert 
Fuchs? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I decline to answer tliat question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. As a practicing lawyer, prerequisite to admission to the 
bar, did you take an oatli to sustain and defend and protect the Con- 
stitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and do- 
mestic ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Yes, sir; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Did you take a comparable oath as a prerequisite to 
service in the United States Army ? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Yes, sir; I believe I did. I don't remember the inci- 
dent, but I am sure I did. 

Mr. Arens. Did you take a comparable oath as an employee of the 
I'ederal Government? 

Mr. Ktstin. Yes, sir ; I believe I did. 

Mr. Arens. I ask you now, whether or not you are now or ever 
have been, a member of an organization that is dedicated to tlie 
destruction of the Constitution of the United States? 

Mr. KiSTiN. I decline to answer that on the same ground, and 
I should like to point out, if I may, that I am and always have been 
a loyal citizen of this country. 

The Chairman. Why do you not answer the question? AVhy do 
you not answer the question whether or not you have been a Communist 
and then we will clarify a lot of this atmosphere? 

I do not know how anyone could be a loyal citizen, except in liis 
own mind, who is a member of the Conununist Party. 

Mr. Arens. If you are a loyal citizen of the Ignited States, why 
do you not stand up like a red-blooded American and say, "Yes, I 
have taken an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States 
and I am not, I have never been, a member of a foreign-controlled 
conspiracy to destroy it" ? 



3230 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. KiSTiN. I should be very happy to take the same oath at any 
time, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I supplement distinguished 
counsel's observation. You just said you will be willing to take the 
same oath again. 

May I suggest that every member of the committee sitting here this 
morning is also a member of the bar the same as you are. If it be the 
fact that you claim to be a loyal citizen under your taking of three 
oaths to that effect, if it be the fact that you have been a member of 
the Communist Party and are not now, why do you not say so ; clean 
up and get out of that mess and start in and fulfill 100 percent your 
oath of office as a member of the bar? 

We have had other men in times past who have been members of 
the Communist Party and got their fill of it and got out. As a mem- 
ber of the bar if you are in that situation, why do you not say so and 
clean up and face the mistake that was made if you made that 
mistake ? 

T am saying that with all sincerity to you, sir, as a fellow member 
of the bar. 

I can understand how, prior to 1945, prior to the Duclos letter or 
shortly thereafter, some American men with some degree of sincerity 
did join the Communist Party, but I do not understand how you, or 
any other adult American beginning 2 or 3 years after the Duclos 
letter would dare to stay in the Communist Party or defend the 
Communist conspiracy and then claim to be a loyal American citizen. 

You were born in France from where Duclos wrote this letter in 
1945 and got rid of Earl Browder, 

I want to urge you to take that position whether you take it this 
morning or not, get it in your heart and soul and mind that the time 
has come for you to clean up from every affiliation you have had as 
a Communist. I will give you the benefit of it if you have been, and 
come clean enough so that you do not now have to hide behind the 
fifth amendment for fear that it might incriminate you in a criminal 
proceeding if you told the truth. 

If I have lectured you as a fellow member of the bar, that is what 
I mean to do. 

The Chaieman, Have you any questions, Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

The Chairman. ]VIr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Mr. Witness, I understand that the only reason you have refused 
to answer questions of counsel and invoked the fifth amendment is 
that you fear that if you did answer them you feel you might tend to 
incriminate yourself? 

Mr. KiSTiN. Well, sir, I did not put it that way. I set forth several 
grounds on which I respectfully declined to answer the questions 
which I declined to answer. 

The Chairman. Yes, the three grounds. 

Go on, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, may I make a call of a witness? 

The Chairman. Yes. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3231 

Mr. Akens. Mrs. Sylvia Soloff Steinberg was to be here at the con- 
vening of this session. She did not present herself. 

If she is in the room now, I ask if she wonld kindly stand so we 
can tell her when we will reconvene ? 

Is her counsel here, hj any chance? 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess, to meet at 2 : 30. 

Mr. Young. Mr. Chairman, is this witness excused? 

The Chairman. The witness is excused. 

(Whereupon, at 12 noon, the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene 
at 2: 30 p. m., of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION THTTRSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1955 

(The following members of the committee were present: Repre- 
sentatives Walter (presiding) Doyle, Frazier, and Scherer.) 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

Call your first witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Will Mrs. Sylvia Soloff Steinberg please come forward ? 

Kindly remain standing and raise your right hand and be sworn. 

The Chairjman. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and notliing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. SYLVIA SOLOFF STEINBERG, ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, GLORIA AGRIN 

The Chairman. Be seated, please. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly identify yourself by name, residence, 
and occupation. 

Mrs. Steinberg. Sylvia Steinberg, New York City, unemployed — 
housewife at present. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. That is true, 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify herself. 

Miss Agrin. I am from the tirm of Blanch Freedman & Gloria 
Agrin. I am Gloria Agrin. My address is 220 Broadway, New York 
City. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Steinberg, will you give us a word of your per- 
sonal background prior to the time that you reached adulthood and 
became self-sustaining — where you were born and a word about your 
education ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I was born in New York City. I went to public 
and high school in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education? 

Mrs. Steinberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. When did you complete your high school courses? 

Mrs. Steinberg. 1931, 1 believe, or 1932. I don't remember exactly. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us a thumbnail sketch of your 
employment after you completed your formal education? 

70811—56 — pt. 3 9 



3232 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Aeens. We are having difficulty hearing you. 

Mrs. StEiNBERG. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Perhaps you didn't understand the question. May I 
be certain that you do? I am asking you to give an enumeration 
of the employments which you had after you completed your high 
school training — the jobs that you held. 

Mrs. Steinberg. Yes, I understand that, and I still maintain under 
the fifth amendment 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. May I consult with counsel on that ? 

The Chairman. Certainly. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still decline under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, after you completed your high school educa- 
tion, obtain employment at any time in the Federal Government? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion if she obtained employment in the Federal Government. 

The Chairman. Let me get it straight. Do I understand you to 
feel that to admit that you have been employed by this great Re- 
public might cause you to be indicted and prosecuted criminally? 
Is that what you believe? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question asked by Mr. 
Arens. 

Mr. Scherer. I think it should be made clear to the witness that we 
do not accept her answer and feel she is improperly invoking the fifth 
amendment and if she continues to invoke it to such questions, in the 
opinion of at least this member of the committee she is in contempt. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I would like to discuss that with my counsel. 

The Chairman. She has counsel. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still decline to answer under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that beginning on or about December of 1935 you were 
employed in the United States Employees' Compensation CommJR- 
sion in Washington, D. C. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the samft 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that she be or- 
dered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still decline under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I ask you to affirm or deny the fact, which I charge, 
that in January of 1986 or thereabouts you were employed in the 
Interstate Commerce Commission in Washington, D. C. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3233 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on tlie same 
grounds. 

Mr. AitENS. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that she be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Without repeating it I want to make the same ad- 
monition to the witness as I made to her when she refused to answer 
the question as to whether or not she was ever employed by the Fed- 
eral Government. 

The (Chairman. Yes. I don't want counsel to think that we are 
presuming to advise her client, but after all the rule has been laid 
down, and that is why we are advising that we don't believe her 
refusal to answer is in good faith. 

Miss Agrin. I understand my client has asked my advice and the 
choice is hers in relation to asserting the privilege. 

Mr. Arens. I am a little uncertain as to the status of this record. 

Mr. Reporter, isn't the last item the question which is unanswered? 

Would you kindly answer the question ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we should further state, as we did this morn- 
ing, Mr. Chairman, that we are presently investigating the infiltra- 
tion of the (vommunist conspiracy into agencies of the Government. 
This question relates to tliis witness' possible employment by the 
Government. We are now in the process of considering legislation 
which would prevent such infiltration in the future. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that beginning in the 8th month 
of 1941 or thereabouts you w^ere employed in the Treasury Department, 
Internal Revenue Bureau, New York City, and I ask 3'ou to affirm 
or deny that fact. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer this question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline on the same grounds. 

Mr, Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that in 1942 you were employed in that same agency in a 
typist position. Is that correct ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer this question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. After the conclusion of this period of time which I 
have covered by these questions, were you engaged in any employment 
of any character whatsoever? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are ordered to answer that question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Let us clear the record with a few general questions, if 
you please. 



3234 COMMUNIST ESrriLTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Were you at any time in the employ of the Government of the 
United States? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly recite to the committee any employ- 
ment which you have had in the course of your life since you com- 
pleted your formal education in New York City ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you worked any place at all other than in the 
Federal Government? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. "\Yliat are those grounds again ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. The grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, you have refused to answer all questions 
asked by counsel up to this point, invoking your privilege not to 
answer on the basis of the fifth amendment, which is to the effect that 
to answer the questions asked might tend to incriminate you. Dur- 
ing the 83d Congress a law was passed which gives this committee 
the right, with the approval of the Federal Courts, to grant you 
immunity from prosecution. If this committee, with the approval 
of the Federal Courts, should grant you immunity from prosecution, 
would you then answer the questions ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I would like to discuss that with my counsel. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

(The following members of the committee were present: Represen- 
tatives Walter, Doyle, Frazier, Kearney, and Scherer.) 

Mrs. Steinberg. I would not want a grant of immunity. I would 
continue to assert my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Let us get this clear. You are pleading the fifth 
amendment because you say at this point that if you do answer the 
questions asked by counsel, such answers might tend to incriminate 
you. Do you understand what I say ? This committee has the right 
under the law to grant you immunity which would mean that if you 
did answer the questions, you could not possibly be prosecuted as the 
result of any of the answers you might give. My question was that 
if such immunity were granted so that you would be free from prose- 
cution as a result of any answers you might give, would you still then 
refuse to answer the committee's questions ? 

Miss Agrin. Mr. Scherer, I don't want to intrude myself into this 
committee discussion contrary to the rules, but I believe that you are 
asking the witness questions of such a technical nature in relation to 
the coverage of immunity act that, as a matter of fact, is now on test 
before the Supreme Court of the United States, that I would think 
it would be grossly unfair to expect an answer without a full and 
lengthy consuUation with counsel. I can't possibly hope to advise her 
in one moment. 

The Chairman. Go aliead and have a conference and then advise 
her. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3235 

Miss Agrin. May we step outside, sir? 
The Chairman. Certainly. 

(The witness and her counsel left the hearing room to confer, and 
later returned to the hearing room. ) 

Miss Agrin. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I might address a remark 
to the committee '^ 

The Chairman. Have you advised your client? 

Miss Agrin. Yes, yet this is a subject which is of such technical 
extent that it is almost impossible for a client to answer. I assume she 
has made up her mind about what she wants to say, but there are ques- 
tions in relation to the validity of that law, the coverage of that law, the 
constitutionality of that law, all of which go into making up a client's 
mind. 

The Chairman. Yes; I know, but we are conducting an inquiry. 
This is not a trial. We are conducting an inquiry because of our 
interest in trying to prevent subversive elements from infiltrating 
our Government again. 

Miss Agrin. I am not trying to intrude, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. You know the rules. You advise your client if 
you feel that lier rights are being impaired or if she is about to say 
something which might subject her to a criminal prosecution. The 
question is, if she were assured that she couldn't be prosecuted, would 
she then cooperate with the Congress of the United States in protect- 
ing 3^our Republic ? 

Miss Agrin. The only point I did want to make is that this offer of 
immunity is made under a specific law and it can't be broader than 
that law and there is question as to that law. 

The CHAiRMi^N. I Imow that, but we are gentlemen. If Mr. Scherer 
indicates the committee would take that course, I am sure that it would. 

You answer the question. If you were guaranteed that you would 
not be prosecuted for anything that \ ou said here, would you cooperate 
with the Congress of the United States in its efforts to protect America 
by answering the questions we see fit to ask you ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. As I understand the law under which this immu- 
nity would be granted, there are too many uncertainities about it. 
The validity of the law has not even yet been ascertained. I feel that 
my rights are still better protected under the fifth amendment, and 
therefore I would assert the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever take a loyalty oath as an employee of the 
Government of the United States ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken an oath of allegiance to defend 
and protect the Constitution of the United States ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that that question 
ought to be answered. 

The Chairman. Yes. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

IMr. Arens. Were vou ever employed by the United Federal 
Workers ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 



3236 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Arexs. What is the United Federal Workers, or what was it? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that the witness be directed to answer. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a person by the name of James E. 
Gorham ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. James Gorham, after taking an oath, testified before 
this committee in public session to the effect that you were a member 
of a Communist group and an employee of a committee of the United 
States Senate. Was he lying or was he telling the truth ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever known a person by the name of Mary 
Mark ward or Mary Stalcup ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Steinberg, I should like to read to you an excerpt 
from testimony given under oath before this committee on February 
15, 1951, by Mrs. Markward, who w^as then identifying people known 
by her to have been in the Communist appai-atus. 

Mrs. Markward. Sylvia Soloff. She lived with Joyzell Shore. 

Question. What was her occupation? 

Answer. She worked for the United Federal Workers. 

Question. If any of the individuals you are naming worked for the Govern- 
ment, so state. 

Answer. None of them did. I believe she was a member of the Community 
Club. I believe she left here the end of 1948. I think she left here just after 
the 1948 convention. 

Were you at any time identified as Sylvia Soloff ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. My maiden name was Soloff. 

Mr. Arens. Was Mrs. Markward telling tlie truth or was she lying 
in her testimony before this committee which I have just read to you ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a person bv the name of Jovzell 
Shore? ^ 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever live in Washington, D. C. ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
should be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or 
not she ever lived in Washington, D. C. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question because, cer- 
tainly, it isn't a crime to live in Washington, D. C. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens, Enumerate to this committee, if you please, the cities 
in which you have lived since you reached adulthood ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3237 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to the cities in 
which she has lived since she reached adulthood. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever applied for a United States passport? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever traveled outside the continental United 
States? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be directed to 
answer the question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a person by the name of Diana Fiske, 
F-i-s-k-e? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Counsel, may I ask you a question ? 

I wasn't here on Monday. Did Mr. Gorham identify that this wit- 
ness was an employee with him in the Senate Wlieeler committee 
setup ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. He identified a person by the name of Sylvia 
Soloff Steinberg, as a person who was, to his certain knowledge, a mem- 
ber of a Communist cell connected as an adjunct to the Senate Wheeler 
committee. 

Would you kindly tell this committee of the Congress the organiza- 
tions of which you are a member at the present time ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to a church ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to any social clubs, card clubs, sewing 
clubs or anything of that character ? 
' Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to any clubs or organizations of the 
nonsensitive, completely patriotic, social variety ? 



3238 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been identified in any organization with your 
counsel ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean to tell this committee that if you would 
tell the truth as to whether or not you have been identified in any 
organization with the counsel who is at your right, wlio represents 
you in this proceeding, you would be furnishing information which 
could be used against joi\ in a criminal proceeding? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the last principal question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not your counsel is a Com- 
munist ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. In what political activity have you engaged? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You were employed by the National Wallace for Pres- 
ident Committee in 1948, were you not? 

]\Irs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that in 194:8 you were employed with the National Wallace 
for President Committee. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a peace partisan in your career, in the 
last few years ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

INIr. Arens. JNIr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be directed to answer the question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Si'EiNBERG. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, jon were either an officer or an 
employee of the Peace Information Center in New York City, were 
you not ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Mrs. Dan Rubenberg? Could you help us? 

JNIrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
gi'ounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever heard of an organization called Peace 
Information Center ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3239 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

The Chairman. Just a minute. The Peace Information Center ? 

'^'^r. A KENS. Yes. 

The Chairman'. You decline to answer the question about Peace In- 
formation Center on the grounds that to answer it might tend to in- 
criminate you, is that it? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amend- 
ment. 

The Chairman. Am I to understand from that, that this Peace In- 
formation Center is a Communist-front operation? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. It was comiected with the Stockholm Peace Appeal, was 
it not? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question. 

The Chairman. The Stockholm Peace Appeal was a Communist- 
iront operation. 

Mr. Arens, why don't we go into the question of the fronts ? 

Mr. Arens. Have you been identified at any time with the American 
Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of your political activities and your extra- 
curricular activities during your lifetime, has it been brought to your 
attention that the American Committee for Protection of Foreign 
Born has in the course of the last 2 years created in this Nation 100 
organizations as fronts within fronts, in front of the fronts, in 15 
key cities for the avowed purpose of destroying the Immigration 
and Nationality Act of this country? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer this question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in any activity in concert with Abner 
Green, executive secretary of the American Committee for Protection 
of Foreign Born? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer this question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been active at any time with the National 
Committee for the Repeal of the McCarran Acts, the Internal Security 
Act of 1950, and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. It is a fact, is it not, that the destruction of the Mc- 
Carran-Walter Act and of the Internal Security Act are No. 1 and 
No. 2 priorities on the program of the International Communist con- 
spiracy within the United States? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. ScHERER. This witness is certainly in a position to know that. 

The Chairman. We would like to know about the fronts that the 
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born have set up 
because actually a lot of well-meaning, innocent people, have been 
duped. You can help us. Why don't you? Wliy don't you tell 
us what you know about the activities of Abner Green's organization ? 



3240 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or dedy 
the fact that you were a key official in Washington, D. C, of the 
Communist Political Association in 1945. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you were a member of the American League for Peace 
and Democracy in the Washington branch. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Are you married ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. When were you married ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. A year ago. 

Mr. Arens. Is that your first marriage ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What is your husband's name, please ? 

Miss Agrin. Mr. Chairman, I understand under the rules of your 
committee you are not going to ask about family matters. Unless 
you are changing the rules, I respectfully suggest that the question 
should not be asked. 

The Chairman. We are not changing the rules at all. This is just 
a matter of identification. We want to make certain that the witness 
we are interrogating is the person that our staff believe ihey are talk- 
ing to, and, of course, because of a change of names there is a possi- 
bility of a mistake. We want to make sure there is no mistake. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

Miss Agrin. May we have the question read back ? 

(The question was read.) 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to her husband's 
name. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean to tell me that if you were to tell the com- 
mittee of the Congress charged with the duty of investigating sub- 
version in this Government the name of your husband you would be 
giving information which could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I still decline to answer the question. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that she be directed to answer the question. 

The Chairinian. You are directed to answer this question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that in 1951 you wei'e identified with W. E. B. Dubois in the 
American Peace Crusade. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer the question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently under Communist discipline ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3241 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Counsel, I came in a little late. Is the witness an 
American citizen ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir ; she is a native-born citizen. 

Mr. Kearney. We are "proud" of her. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you are a member of the Washington Bookshop. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. After receiving your subpena, tell us, please, with whom 
you discussed your prospective appearance before this committee. 

Mrs. Steinberg. With my counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other person with whom you discussed 
this appearance ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. Excuse me. May I consult with my counsel a 
minute. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Steinberg. I discussed it in addition with the other half of the 
partnership in my counsel's office. 

Mr. Arens. Did you discuss your appearance here today with any 
person known by you to be a member of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. How did you happen to select your counsel who appears 
with you today ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. She is a personal acquaintance. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been acquainted with your counsel ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I don't remember exactly. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been engaged with your counsel in any Com- 
munist Party activities ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you are a member of the Marian Anderson Citizens 
Committee. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Would you help this committee of the Government, 
under whose flag you enjoy protection, with your knowledge as to 
the formation of an organization known as the Peace Information 
Center? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. That Peace Information Center was part of the Inter- 
national Communist conspiracy ; was it not ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken an oath of allegiance to a foreign 
power ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever distributed peace petitions ? 



3242 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Albert E. Kahn, 
K-a-h-n? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently employed ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. No. 

Mr. Arens. When did you last have employment ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I resigned from my job several weeks ago. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you employed ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I was a stenographer. 

Mr. Arens. In what organization ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. In a law office. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat law office ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. It wasn't a firm. It was an individual. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of the individual ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. Milton Paulson. 

Mr. Arens. For how long did you enjoy employment there? 

Mrs. Steinberg. Four years. 

Mr. Arens. Is Mr. Paulson, as an individual, engaged in practice 
of the law on his own ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. And his law office is in New York City ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you work immediately prior to your employ- 
ment with Mr. Paulson ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the ground of 
the fifth amendment. 

JNIr. Arens. For how long had you been employed prior to the time 
that 3^ou became employed by INIr. JPaulson ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chaixuvian. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your resignation from the office of Mr. 
Paulson ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. There were health reasons. 

Mr. Arens. Reasons of your own personal health ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. For how long were you employed prior to your employ- 
ment by Mr. Paulson ? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I don't understand the question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have employment prior to vour emplovment 
by Mr. Paulson? 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer the question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this wit- 
ness be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Steinberg. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 



COMJNIUNIST INFILTRATION OF GOVERNMENT 3243 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Cliairmaii, I respectfully suggest that this con- 
cludes the staff inquiry of this witness. 

The Chairman. Any questions? 

Mr. Doyle? Mr. Frazier? Mr. Kearney? Mr. Scherer? 

The witness is excused. 

Is there another witness? 

JSIr. Arens. There are no other witnesses under subpena to appear 
today. 

The Chairman. The committee stands in recess. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 15 p. m. Thursday, February 16, 1956, the com- 
mittee was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m. Tuesdav, Februarv 21. 
1956.) J'. J' » 

X 



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