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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the Los Angeles, Calif., area. Hearings"

HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— PART 7 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FOUKTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



APRIL 16, 1956 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
(Index in Part 10 of This Series) 




HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY, 

DEPOSITED BY THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

AUG 15 195fi 



UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
77436 WASHINGTON : 1956 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Repeesentatives 

FRANCIS B. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinola 

CLYDE DOYLE. California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, JH., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

RiCHABD Arbns, Director 

n 



CONTENTS 



PART 7 
April 16, 1956: 

Testimony of — ^^** 

William Don Waddilove 3600 

Edith Rapport (Mrs. George Rapport) 3676 

Afternoon session: 

Rubin Decker 3695 

Joseph Pass 3711 

Samuel Berland 3718 

Sylvia Lardner Darnell (Mrs. Carter Darnell) 3726 

Carter Darnell 3728 

Milton Kestenbaum 3733 

Sidney Greene 3737 

Paul Powell 3749 



PART 8 
April 17, 1956 : 

Testimony of Nikolai Khokhlov 756 



PART 9 
April 19, 1956: 

Testimony of — 

Albert Glasser 3821 

Katherine Glasser (Mrs. Albert Glasser) 3837 

Herbert Offner 3841 

Sam Fordis 3850 

Henry Roth 3854 

Afternoon session, testimony of: 

Cvril Towbin 3862 

Helen Teverniti 3869 

Lewis Elias 3870 

Leonard H. Dahlsten 3881 

Henry Roth (resumed) 3885 

Cyril Towbin (resumed) 3887 

Victor Gottlieb 3887 

Manuel L. Compinsky 3892 

Eudice Gottlieb (Mrs. Victor Gottlieb) 3896 

Milton Feher 3897 



I 



I 



PART 10 
April 20, 1956: 

Testimony of — 

Thomas Walfrid Nelson 3901 

Arthur Globe 3915 

Don Christlieb 3918 

Afternoon session, testimony of — 

Ramez Idriss 3934 

Joseph DiFiore 3937 

Edgar Lustgarten 3939 



m 



„, CONTENTS 

IV 

Anril 20 1956 — Continued ^ ^. a ^as® 

^ Ifternoon session, testimony of-Contxnued 3^42 

Morris Boltuch ""__. _ __ 3948 

Philip Goldberg _ ""_ 3951 

Joseph Eger "- " ~_ _ __ _ 3955 

Kalman Bloch "" __ __ 3954 

Jack (L) Pepper " "_ 39^7 

Jean C. Musick '_."_'.'/.' -- 3974 

Manuel Newman _" " _ _ _ 3977 

Roy Frankson " """_'"'_' 3979 

Herbert Lessner _"_. I' ~ 3984 

George Kast 

April 21, 1956: 

Testimony of: _ 3990 

John Walter Porter _' 4006 

Jessica Rhine Wildman__ 

Afternoon session, testimony of— _ 4921 

Louis R. Sherman _" " __ 4026 

William Ward Kimple.---- ___ 4033 

Louis R. Sherman (resumed) - _ _ 4Q42 

Thomas A. Chapman ---_- ---"" ___ 4047 

Sidney London ----- -- ^ ^^^^ 

Alfred Hale Caplan _ 406I 

John T. McTernan 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress (1946), chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United Btate» 
of America, in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
• «*•••* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

RttleXI 
powees and duties op committees 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American Activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that vpould aid Congress in any neces- 
sary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it aeems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places vpithin the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

V 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955 
• •***** 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees : 

******* 
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of 
such wtinesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to 
take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the 
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— PART 7 



MONDAY, APRIL 16, 1956 

United States House of Eepresentatives, 

SuBCOM]^inTEE OF THE 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles^ Calif. 
public hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to notice, at 9 : 30 a. m., in room 518, Federal Building, Los 
Angeles, Calif., Hon. Morgan M. Moulder (chairman of the subcom- 
mittee) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder, 
of Missouri ; Clyde Doyle, of California; Donald L. Jackson, of Cali- 
fornia, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; William 
A. IVlieeler and Courtney E, Owens, investigators. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will come to order. 

Let the record show that the Honorable Francis E. Walter, of Penn- 
sylvania, chairman of the Committee on Un-American Activities of 
the United States House of Representatives, pursuant to the provisions 
of law establishing this committee, duly appointed Representative 
Clyde Doyle, of California, Representative Donald L. Jackson, of 
California, Representative Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio, and myself, 
Morgan M. Moulder, of Missouri, chairman, as a subcommittee to 
conduct hearings beginning in Los Angeles today. 

The full membership of the subcommittee is present. 

The Congress of the United States has imposed upon this committee 
the duty of investigating the extent, character, and objects of un- 
American propaganda activities in the United States, and the diffu- 
sion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or is of a domestic 
origin and attacks the principle of the form of government as guar- 
anteed by our Constitution, and all other questions in relation thereto 
that would aid Congi'ess in any necessary remedial legislation. 

This committee has devoted much time in the past years to the 
investigation of the subject of communism, and the committee has 
endeavored to keep Congress well informed of the extent and the 
objects of the Communist conspiracy within this country. 

Li the performance of this huge task the committee, in its reports to 
Congress, has made in excess of 40 recommendations for legislation 
by Congress designed to aid in the fight against this Communist con- 
spiracy, all but a few of which have been enacted into law. 

3657 



3658 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

In carrying out the statutory duties imposed upon this committee, 
the committee proposes to continue its investigation of the extent, 
character, and objects of Communist activities in this general area 
and in all other areas to which information developed may lead, as 
well as to investigate all other questions in relation thereto which 
would aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation. 

In 1951 the committee began an investigation which resulted in a 
series of hearings related to the extent, character, and objects of Com- 
munist Party activities, of what is known as the northwest section of 
the Communist Party, in the city of Los Angeles, usually referred 
to as the Hollywood section of the Communist Party. 

This hearing will relate in part to a branch of the Hollywood section 
of the Communist Party which has not heretofore been the subject 
of investigation by this committee. 

This branch of the Communist Party, the committee is informed, is 
composed exclusively of musicians. Inquiry will be made as to the 
activities of the members of this group with special reference to their 
activities in the Independent Progressive Party, and the significance, 
if any, that such activities import. 

The committee's attention has been drawn to certain public inter- 
views with a former Soviet intelligence officer which indicate a far- 
reaching knowledge on his part of conditions within the Soviet Union. 
It is believed that his background and experience has been such that 
his appearance as a witness should be a valuable aid to the committee 
in understanding in its proper perspective Communist Party control 
within the arts as practiced in tlie Soviet Union. 

This witness also will be asked to give the committee his analysis 
of the present Soviet policy as announced in the 20th Congress of the 
Soviet Communist Party held in Moscow in February of this year. 

Here it should be noted that views of other leading authorities in 
this field will be the subject of a committee report which is expected 
to be ready for publication within the next few weeks. 

Several groups entirely unfamiliar with the investigative back- 
ground of this hearing have protested against the holding of this 
hearing. 

In a communication from one of these groups it is stated : 

We believe, as you have quite sincerely announced, that the subpenaing of 
some 35 local musicians is unrelated to the internal problems of the musicians 
union. Yet, we believe, the timing of the committee hearing is most unfortunate 
and certain to create public confusion. 

I want to take this opportunity on behalf of the committee to state 
concretely and with empliasis that this committee is not interested in 
any dispute between employers and employees or between one union 
and another union. Neither is it interested in the internal affairs of 
any union. It is a conclusive negation to the charge that this hearing 
is being held for the purpose of interfering in the internal affairs of 
a union that this investigation was begun in June of 1055, that the 
hearing was set for November of 1955, that because of conflicts in ap- 
pointments the hearings were continued, and that the present date for 
the hearing was fixed by the committee at its first session in early 
January of this year. 

The only — and I quote from this communication — "public confu- 
sion" which could result is that which certain groups opposed to this 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3659 

committee seemed determined to create by the unfounded charges they 
persist in making. And that is the only public confusion that has been 
created, and that has been created as a result of that. 

In the course of this investigation Communist Party activities of 
other individuals in the field of labor, business, and government have 
come to the attention of the staif, and will also be the subject of investi- 
gation and of this hearing. 

The committee took extensive testimony in Chicago during Decem- 
ber of 1955, land in the city of Washington in February and March, 
relating to Coimnunist Party activities of employees in various 
agencies of the United States Government. During the course of 
those hearings testimony was received divulging the existence of here- 
tofore undisclosed Communist Party cells which operated in various 
Government agencies at various locations throughout the country. 

There will be heard, before the conclusion of these hearings, certain 
witnesses whose identity was disclosed during the coui'se of the above 
hearings. 

The committee has received, since its arrival in JjOS Angeles, addi- 
tional testimony touching on this subject from which it is apparent 
additional investigation will be required, and in all probability future 
hearings will be held in Los iVngeles. 

It is a standing rule of tliis committee that any pei*son who is named 
in the course of the conduct of the liearings of this committee «nd who 
is identified or referred to as a member of the Connnunist Party shall 
be given an opportunity to appear before this committee if he so 
desires for tlie purpose of denying or explaining any testimony 
adversely afTecting him or her. 

Should such an occasion arise such an individual concerned should 
communicate with any member of this committee or any member of 
the staff. 

Those present are reminded that they are guests of the committee as 
an agency of our Government. A disturbance of any kind or audible 
comment during the course of the testimony, either favorable or un- 
favorable to any witness or to the committee, will not be tolerated. 

For such infraction of this rule the offender immediately will be 
asked to leave the hearing room. 

Under the rules of the House of Representatives of the United 
States, televising and broadcasting of all House committee hearings 
are prohibited. Still photographs are permitted while the witness is 
not testifying. 

I might also announce that the rules of those in control of this 
building prohibit smoking in the hearing room during the course of 
the hearings. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavknner. Yes, sir. 

I would like to call Mr. William Don Waddilove. 

Will you come forward, please, and occupy the chair on my left. 

Mr. Moulder. Hold up your right hand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony which you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I do. 



3660 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM DON WADDILOVE 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Waddilove. W-a-d-d-i-1-o-v-e. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left from the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Waddilove, it is noted that you are not accom- 
panied by counsel. 

Mr. Waddilove. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is the practice of the committee to advise all wit- 
nesses that they are entitled to counsel if they so desire, and to confer 
with counsel at any time during their testimony if the witness feels 
the occasion requires it. 

When and where you born, Mr. Waddilove ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Ridgeway, Mo., May 4, 1919. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
educational training has been. 

Mr. Waddilove. Secondary school and 1 year at the University of 
Missouri. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I am a musician. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you practice your profession in Los Angeles 
between 1947 and 1949 ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you engaged in that type of work 
in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Waddelove. From 1942 imtil 1952. 

Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time did you reside in the 
general area of Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Waddilove. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or 
not you were a member of the Communist Party at any time during 
that period ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Specifically, during what period of time were you 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddelove. The latter half of 1947 and all of 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that mean you left the Communist Party 
early in 1949 ? 

Mr. Waddilove. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances under which you became a member of the Communist Party ? 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. Waddilove. Early in 1947 I was engaged in a business venture 
which was on the verge of failing, and eventually did. 

About — I am estimating — April or May of 1947, I was engaged in 
a discussion group with several people for the purpose of discussing 
political issues and economic issues in general on a social basis. 

At first only general issues were discussed. And this went on for 
some time, and finally the people revealed themselves as Communists, 
after a while, after we agreed on the solution of certain issues, and we 
were told that these issues could only be resolved through working 
through the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3661 

And that roughly are the circumstances surrounding my becoming 
a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. If I have understood you correctly, you were en- 
gaged in discussion groups with several people regarding political and 
economic issues? 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will recess for 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a short recess was taken, Kepresentatives Moulder, 
Doyle, Jackson, and Scherer being present.) 

(At the expiration of the recess, the committee was reconvened, Rep- 
resentatives Moulder, Doyle, and Scherer being present.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Waddilove, I understood from your testimony 
that you had occasion to meet from time to time with a group of people 
who discussed political and economic issues. 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that finally during those discussions several 
persons made themselves known to you as members of the Communist 
Party ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Waddilove. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you were advised by them that the only solu- 
tion to the issues which you had been discussing was through the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were those individuals identifying themselves 
to you as members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Henry Roth and Sam Albert. 

Mr. Tavenner. Henry Roth, R-o-t-h. And what was the name of 
the other person? 

Mr. Waddilove. Sam Albert. 

Were those individuals musicians? 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You knew them at that time as being musicians? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they seek your membership in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean by that, did they ask you to join ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Not in so many words, but it was the whole point 
of the discussion group. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of what occurred and what you have 
just described, did you become a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Upon joining were you assigned to a group or unit 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove, Yes. They were all musicians. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask one question, Mr. Tavenner? 

You say you became a member of the Communist Party. What 
do you mean? How did you become a member of the Communist 
Party? 



3662 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Waddilove. By the members revealing themselves to me and 
being asked or permitted to attend party meetings. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you pay dues? 

Mr. Waddilove. Nominal dues, as I recall. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you issued any identification ? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Jackson. As a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many persons composed the group of the Com- 
munist Party with which you affiliated, as nearly as you can now 
recall ? This was in 1947, 1 iDelieve. 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

I don't know the exact number, but I heard that there were roughly 
maybe TO or 75 at one time. 

Mr. Moulder. At the Communist Party meetings ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. He said members .of the group. He didn't 
describe any particular meeting. 

Mr. Scherer. Membership. 

Mr. Moulder. How did you know there were that many ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Well, the figure was mentioned. 

Mr. Moulder. That is the reason I asked the question. 

Was it as a result of attending meetings or by examination of some 
records ? 

Mr. Waddilove. By hearsay. 

Mr. Tavenner. After you became a member of this group, were 
meetings regularly held or at any stated intervals ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Weekly meetings were scheduled. 

Mr. Tavenner. How frequently were they held, generally? 

Mr. Waddilove. Weekly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the meetings ? 

Mr. Waddilove. ]\Iany of them. 

IMr. Tavenner. Did you attend meetings during the entire period of 
your membership ? 

Mr Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tav-enner. Can you recall how many persons normally attended 
these meetings'^ 

Mr. Waddilove. At one time, maybe 10 or 12. 

Mr. Tavenner. ^'SHiere were the meetings held? 

Mr. Waddilove. Various homes, including my own. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of any persons in whose 
homes these meetings were held? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like you to give the committee that informa- 
tion, please. 

Mr. Waddilove. The home of Anita Short. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that last name ? 

Mr. Waddilove. S-h-o-r-t. 

Mr. Tavenner. Short, Anita Sliort. 

Mr. Waddilove. George Sandell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it, please. 

Mr. Waddilove. I believe it is S-a-n-d-e-1 or two I's. I am not clear. 
Cyril Towbin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the correct spelling T-o-w-b-i-n or T-o-b-i-n? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3663 

Mr. "\YADDILO^^l. I am not sure. 

As 1 recall, there was possibly a meeting at the house of Joe Pass, 
Sam Fordis. That is, as I recall. 

Mr, Tavenner. AVhat was that last name ? I didn't understand. 

Mr. Waddiloa^. Fordis. 

Mr. Ta\tnner Will you spell it, please. 

Mr. Waddilove. I think it is F-o-r-d-i-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of the meetings held in those 
homes and other homes? 

Mr. Waddilove. Mainly they were study groups. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend meetings of this group of the Com- 
munist Party in homes other than those that you have mentioned 'i 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. I can't recall exactly just whose, but there 
were more. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, the chief activity 
of this group of the Communist Party ? In other words, during your 
affiliation with this group, what appeared to be its main objective? 

Mr. Waddilove. Its main objective during that period was imple- 
menting the third party or the Independent Progressive Party, get- 
ting it on the ballot in California. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Was this matter discussed in those meetings of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Quite fully. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Were there occasions when Communist Party func- 
tionaries came to your meeting? That is functionaries on a higher 
level, and told your membership what it was supposed to do? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. The IPP was the target for 1948. All work 
was channeled in that direction. 

Mr. Moulder. The IPP. That is the Independent Progressive 
Party is it not ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall at this time the names of any of the 
Communist Party functionaries who attended the meetings of your 
group? 

Mr. Waddilove. The only one I could possibly recall would be 
Frank Spector. That is the only one I was aware of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what position he held in the Com- 
munist Party at that time ? 

Mr. Waddilove. No ; I don't, not exactly. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was not a member of your group of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall what your group was advised or 
told to do? 

Mr. Waddilove. Well, we circulated petitions, securing signatures. 
That was signatures to get the Independent Progressive Party on the 
California ballot. And after this was done, why, then we did what we 
could to promote the Independent Progxessive Party, and, in addi- 
tion, were requested to change our own registration from whatever 
it w^as to IPP or Independent Progressive Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you follow the directions you received from the 
Communist Party in both of those particulars ? That is, in changing 
your registration and also in circulating petitions? 



2664 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. WADDILO^•E. T did both. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an affidavit of regis- 
tration showing your registration as an affiliate of the Independent 
Party, as it is stated here, under date of February 23, 1948. I have 
another photostatic copy of an affidavit of registration indicating a 
change of residence, with registration under the name of the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party of California, bearing date April 21, 1948. 

Will you examine these documents and state whether you recognize 
them as copies of your registrations? [Documents handed to the 
witness.] 

Mr. Waddilove. I would accept it as that. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer both documents in evidence and ask 
that they be marked "Waddilove Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2", respectively. 

Waddilove Exhibit No. 1 



fATEMENT OP TRANSFER OR CHANGE OF NAME \ ^SH^ 

lUst registered under the niyiS^ of | | 




^ORicnu 



Precinct 
I hereby authorize the cancelUtion of Mid registration. / LOS AMOELKS CITT PRXCmCT MO- 



f7¥^ 



ss. 



AFnDAYIT OF REGISTRATION. 



STATE OF CAUFORNIA. 
COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES. 
The undersigned affiant, being duly sworn, says: I will be at least twenty-one years of age at the time of 
the next succeeding election, a citizen of the United States ninety days prior thereto, and a resident of the Slate 
one year, of the County ninety days, and of the Precinct forty days next preceding such election, and wOl be 
an elector of this County at the next succeeding election. 

I. I have not registered from any other precinct in the State since January 1, 193& 



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bot^ tbm ci*c Sec Twp.. and Rangc^ ^ 

-..._Stre«s,-rT^._.FIoor, Rnom / **' / 

9. I intend to affiliate at the ensuing 

._ _._ primary^lection with the 



Party. 



r^lectioi 

T.^ANSFm C?^... if/J 

o"-^';»9--fSr - 

M. J. DONOGHUEJMjsfrcf of Votera 



(when). 
My 55. 



(wben)_ 



name is (was) — 



8, I can read the Constitution in the English language ; I can. 

by reason of having been on October 10, 1911 \\_ M^^tS^'riarran < 

I cao— — f— mark my ballot by inson of — 



-write my name ; I am entitled to Tote 



Ik a ^ ^^Aftaat itea bare ) 

Subsciibed and sworn to b< 

_.._->A3 day of =;^5i 

Wj. I. DOy^GHUj:, Kegijtri 



0/i 







/ 

435533 



Depnt/ Registrar of Voters. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3665 
Waddilove Exhibit No. 2 



STATEMENT OF TRANSFER OR CHANGE OF NAME 
I last registered under the name of 



. I last registered at and remoTed from 

No. i9^cuJ.QifAy>^Ek^ 

_C>fc._ ..?L.__'r*r*» Precinct 




}s^ AFFIDAYIT OF REGISTRATION. "'I 



I hereby aothorize the cancellation of said registratio n. / L08 ANOKLK8 CITV PKXCIMCT MO. 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA. 
COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, 



The undersigned affiant, being duly sworn, says : I will be at least twenty-one years of age at the time of j 
the next succeeding election, a citizen of the United States ninety days prior thereto, and a resident of the State ^ 
one year, of the County ninety days, and of the Precinct forty days next preceding ! 
an elector of this County at the next succeeding election. 

1. I have iK)t registered from any other precinct in the State since January I, 193d. 

(11 BpfiticaBt ha* m vtrnattij ft^i wc gj, woMdk onl Ifcc voH **|M*** aai U e«t Ite ■wiii|iil«li bfaaka mi^mftt 

2. My full name U...^.l *>./-. 

(ladwdiai CWnusa < 

3. My residence i8...._.1'. ...P .0 .8 

(Nmm atntl er r<M4. 

between_3d.^-S;>!<r;»l<<fc*;lL«... 

My mailing address is 70 O ^ ^r^£L,^r^.^Jkr^^.J^^ 

, ^ J j^ _ ' / 9- • intend to affiliate at tl>e en 

My occupation is.._„....-Vnrvi>!r:?«rrt^^^ 

5. My height is...._..-.^ -feet...i....~- .inchea. ^'^ /^'^^L.^..., ®«^.f^^^ 

' (II .Oi&iio. Mm in.^ atte m ■»» -niiH ii to Sato.-) 

6. I was bom in <hn^r^7rf^^^r^?=r±r^.r^^.^Z^ 

(SUI«ar Coaatrr) 
(If • oativ* bars citltcn roa trnd not aBcwcr mmRtim Nok 7 J 

7. I acquired citizenship by) t KS^.°!iiS„b-. ^ CANCELLED 

c NuuTTuiuoD ol »> fubM4 |>£» to SqKtnb. 22. xm. BtNjKtCN :>. HUE. Accol/ar o< Vi«i,i. 

I. Act o< C<a(rai. i. (r tttuj. ^ "" """■ 

(when) (where).. 



one year, of the County ninety days, and of the Precinct forty days next preceding soch election, and will be ^ 
an elector of this County at the next succeeding election. ^ 

1. I have not registered from any other prec 

(II BppUoBt ha* w p f iiiii lT n^Mtc e J , Mark onl Ifcc « 

2. My full name U. ..U(I K /- / 4 AL .Ife_ _. _ \iJ A tiXt M^O Y E £ 

(bchdia, Ckriiuaa er pna use. tiU ai4«> MM or Igptiy. oad • da OM oi iiNjio. Iko pt<a> Mto or Hn.) 

! - Mfr^R&^L <?r5tfe_______^±^JSide ! 

r Sr^ Twv-. tmt KoM^> [ 

between_3d.<5*>,^r;»l<<fc*;lL.e and^^^5**he*..^(??y_...Strert«. Floor. Rooai ! 

j 

i 

^ ^^ ^ 9. I intend to affiliate at the »«i««tmy ^ 

4. My occupation is _"Vnrvi-t::«rr^;<i-e_^^ 



(Stoto pknkal lliitlllp. ■ Mr.) 



by reason of having been on October 10, 191 1 | J; ^J^^^^^, 
I can marie my ballot by reason of 

Subscribed and sworn to before me this P*_ S6541S 
.? f .._d.y of. i;gL*fe<>€ . i9tcf 



M. J. DONOGHUE^egistrar of Voten, 

By--_.(4_JL..(^L:£<^:r^ . _... 

noM IJK4 Deputy Registrar of Voters. 






Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you examine the signature at the bottom of 
exhibit No. 1 and state who the registrar is, what name you see signeci 
there ? 

Mr. Waddilove. It is signed Mrs. Esther Roth. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. In what capacity did she sign that affidavit ? 

Mr. Waddilo\t:. It says Deputy Registrar of Voters. 

Mr. Taa'enner. Did you know her as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner, Our investigation has disclosed a petition which 
shows, at the end of it, a statement that you were the one who circu- 
lated it. I hand you a three-page pliotostatic copy of it and ask you 
to examine it and state what it is, please. 



3666 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Waddilove. This is one I circulated in an effort to get the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party on the ballot in the State of California in 
1948. 

Mr, Tavenner, I believe it is dated January 16, 1948. 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document referred to above in 
evidence, and ask that it be marked "Waddilove Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Moulder. The document so offered by counsel is admitted in 
evidence. (See p. 3667.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did other members of the Communist Party group 
engage in the same type of activities which you described you pursued ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I believe we all did. 

Mr. Ta\T!:nner. Were you, on your level in the Communist Party, 
advised why the Communist Party was taking such an active part in 
getting the Independent Progressive Party on the ballot in Cali- 
fornia ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I am not quite sure I know exactly what you mean. 
However, from an organizational standpoint, I suppose it was logical 
because of the organization already set up. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever told that the Independent Progressive 
Party offered the best vehicle for the advancement of the progi'am of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. No, not as such. 

Mr. Scherer. What did you understand to be the purpose of the 
Communist Party in infiltrating the Progressive Party ? Wliy was it 
done? 

JVIr. Waddilove. I would say, rather than infiltrate, I think it was 
spearheaded by the Communist Party. I don't think the Progressive 
Party would have reached a place on the ballot had it not been for 
the organization of the Communist Party behind it. 

Mr. Scherer. Why did the Communist Party spearhead it ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I am not so certain 

Mr. Scherer. Did the Communist Party feel that it had more 
chance of success by using the name Progressive Party rather than 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Undoubtedly. 

Mr. Scherer. Was that the reason ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I would say that is a good reason. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of Frank Spector as a 
Communist who attended some of your meetings and discussed activi- 
ties relating to the Independent Progressive Party. Do you know 
what position, if any, he held in the Independent Progressive Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Doyle. A moment ago you said that one of the reasons, in your 
judgment, that the Communist Party was spearheading the circula- 
tion of these petitions to qualify the Independent Progressive Party 
and to make it a legal party in the State of California, was because 
you felt the party had more chance of success through the Independent 
Progressive Party, 

Do you remember stating that substantially ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 



COMlVrUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3667 
Waddilove Exhibit No. 3 



IPPC 642.5 



INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE PARTY OF CALIFORNIA 

PETITION TO 
PARTICIPATE IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION JUNE 1, 1948 



LOS 

ClrculatMl tn th« County (or City and County) of 



AMGELES 



STATE OF CALIFORNIA, 
County (or City ud County) 



ot _ _ Tj-' 



TO THE HONORABLE SECRETARY OF STATE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA: 

Wo. the undersigned, regLatered, qualified electors of t)ie State of California, resident! of tlie 

County (or City and County) <{_,OS -ANOELB-nte of California, present to the Secretur 
of State of the State of California this Petition and declare that we represent a political party, the name 
of which U INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE PARTY OF CALIFORNIA, which party aald electors de- 
sire to hare participate In the Primary Election to be held on June 1. 1948. 



(,w i-s- 




STATE OF CALIFORNIA. 
County (or City and County) ol 



^JU^ £)^ 






. being first duly sworn, deposes and frays: 
1 am, dnd during all ihe lime while bolicuing signatures as hercinaCtcr sel lorih was. a qualill»d 

and registered elector ol the above named County (or City and County) o^ ^"^ ^^^•^"'"'''^^.mJuL^ 
and of the State of California; I am the person who solicited the signatures to the attacned and fore- 
going Petition: all the signatures to the attached section were made in my presence and upon the date 
shown after each signature, and at Ihe lime each signer signed his name to said Petition he also affixed 
thereto his residence as above stated, and the date of said signing, and said signatures were solicited 

by me within the above named County (or City and County) oG^ ^"^ ^^•'K/y^^^r^-Xj^^y • ^q^j (q 
the best of my knowledge and belief, each signature to the said section is the genuine signature of the 
person whose name it purports to be. 



Subscribed and sworn to before me this / ^ay of 

_ V^.A.yv ... . xnS^''^ 

Notary Public in and^isr the County (or 

City and County) of ;^ <=' J _ ^^Q^^/TS 
State of California. 

Uy Commission tvpiies Maicli 19, 1949 



77436— 5ft— pt. 7- 









3668 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand by that, in your judgment, that the 
Communist Party, of which you were a member and for which you 
were circulating the petition to qualify the Independent Progressive 
Party, was therefore considering the Independent Progressive Party 
as a front for the Communist Party? Did it go to that extent in 
your judgment? Is that why you were doing it? 

Mr. Waddilove. In actuality that is what it was. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Moulder. In order to clarify the record, and probably give you 
an opportunity to explain your testimony in that respect: Do you 
mean to infer that all people wlio signed or whose signatures were se- 
cured on the petition to place the Independent Progressive Party on 
the ballot as a legal party, were Communists ? 

Mr. Waddilove. By no means, by no means. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. After becoming a member of this group of the Com- 
munist Party did you discover that the two persons, whose names you 
first gave us, were members of the same group ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat were their names ? 

Mr. Waddilcst:. Henry Roth and Sam Albert. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have been asked to list as many of the members 
of your group of the Communist Party as you could recall. Have 
you done that? 

Mr Waddilo\'e. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have given us the names of those two persons- 
Roth and Albert — and the names of a number of persons in whose 
homes this group of the Communist Party met. Now will you give 
us the names, please, of all of the other persons that you can recall 
who were known to you to be members of th^t same group of the 
Communist Party of which you were a member? 

Mr. Waddilove. Joe Eger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Due to the difficulty of hearing, I am going to ask 
you to spell that last name. I couldn't hear it pronounced. 

Mr. Waddilo^tj:. Eger. I believe it is E-g-e-r. 

Mr. Jackson. I believe the name should be spelled against any pos- 
sible error in identification. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

A nd you could hear that, Mr. Witness ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

JMr. Jackson. Spell the names in all instances. 

Mr, Tavanner. Give us the name again, please. 

Mr. Waddilove. Joe Eger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

Mr. Waddilove. Victor Gottlieb. 

Mr. Jackson. Spell the name, please. 

Mr. Waddilove. I believe it is G-o-t-t-l-i-e-b. Some of these spell- 
ings I don't know. I know the names, but I am not sure of the spelling, 

Mr. Jackson. There is no question as to your knowledge of an indi- 
vidual as a member of the Communist Party, although you may not 
have tlie precise spelling of the name ? 

Mr. Waddilo\te. That is rijrht. 



COMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3669 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask, Mr. Tavenner, does the staff investigation 
reveal the correct spelling of the names of the persons the witness is 
identifying? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; it does. 

Mr. Moulder. May I suggest, Mr. Tavenner, that you request the 
spelling of the name if there is any question about it, and also that 
you identify the person as carefully as possible so that the person 
named will not be confused with some other person who might have 
the same name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you again, Were all of these individuals 
whose names you are now giving us musicians? 

Mr. Waddilo\t:. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that would identify them by occupation. If 
there is any other identifying information you can furnish regarding 
the individual, I wish you would do so as you give the name. 

According to the committee's investigation, the spelling of Gottlieb 
that you gave is the correct spelling. 

Mr. Waddilo\t2. Morris Browda. I believe it is B-r-o-w-d-a. 

Mr. Tavenner. The first name is what? 

Mr. Waddilove. Morris. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell Morris ? 

Ml. Waddilove. M-o-r-r-i-s. 

Herb Offener, 0-f-f-n-e-r, I believe. 

Wayne Ronka. I have it R-o-n-k-a. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the first name. Wayne? 

Mr. Waddilove. W-a-y-n-e. 

Milt Kestenbaum. I have K-e-s-t-e-n-b-a-u-m. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVliat is the first name? 

Mr. Waddilove. Milt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Milt is an abbreviation for 
Milton ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Rubin Decker, D-e-c-k-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the spelling of the first name? 

Mr. Waddilove. R-u-b-i-n, I believe. 

Herb Lessner. Herbert, I guess. L-e-s-s-n-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the first name? 

Mr. Waddilove. Herb. 

George Kast, K-a-s-t. 

That is about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a musician by the name of 
Paul Powell? 

Mr. Waddilove. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. P-o-w-e-1-1? 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now our investigation discloses that there are 2 
musicians by the name of Paul Powell, 1 living in Oregon, and the 
other in Los Angeles. Which Paul Powell is it to whom you refer? 

Mr. Waddilo\^. It is probably the one that lives in Los Angeles at 
the moment. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, as far as I know, he has not identified 
either one of these persons as members of the Communist Party. 



3670 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Ta\t;nxek. Yes. All of these persons were members. He is 
now identifying- persons who were known to him to be members of 
the Communist Party in his professional group. 

I think, for clarity of the record, we should state at this time that 
as far as the committee Imows, the Paul Powell in Oregon is not the 
one who is a member of the Communist Party ; the committee has no 
knowledge of the Paul Powell in Oregon as having been a member 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask to what period of time you are referring 
when you say that some person is a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I am referring to nothing later than the first or 
early part of 1949. I would have no knowledge past that point. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you mean since that time ? Since 1949 ? 

Mr. Waddilove. That is correct. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you identifying those persons as of that year ? 

Mr. Waddilo\t:. As of that year. 

Mr. Moulder. Can you give us specific information as to why you 
know they were at that time members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I attended meetings with them. 

Mr. Moulder. Can you give more specific information as to what 
the meetings were? Were they Communist Party meetings? 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr. Jackson. Were they closed meetings of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Confined strictly to Communist Party members ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Seymour Sheklow ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of your group of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend Communist Party meetings with 
him? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. The spelling of that name is S-e-y-m-o-u-r. The 
last name is S-h-e-k-1-o-w. 

Are you acquainted with a person by the name of Sidney Greene ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. The spelling is S-i-d-n-e-y G-r-e-e-n-e? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Sidney Greene known to you to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And a member of your group of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr, Tavenner. Do I understand that you attended Communist 
Party meetings with all of these individuals whose names you have 
given us? 

Mr. Waddiix)ve. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
it was the practice in this group of the Communist Party, with which 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3671 

you were affiliated, to study Communist Party doctrine and philos- 
ophy ? 

]\Ir. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And literature ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How was that carried out ? How was that instruc- 
tion given ? 

Mr. Waddilove. From week to week a new topic would be chosen, 
and the discussion would be held the following week of the material 
covered. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the membership furnished with books and 
other materials on the subjects which you discussed ? 

Mr. Waddilove. They were available. We paid for them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were those books made available to the membership 
at tlie meetings whicli you have described ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. What proportion of the meetings was usually de- 
voted to the study of Communist Party doctrine and principles ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Anywhere from one-half to one-third possibly. 

Mr. TavExNtner. Was that fairly constant during your entire mem- 
bership from 1947 to the beginning of 1949 ? 

Mr. Wadlilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know why the membership of your group 
of the Communist Party was composed solely of musicians? 

Mr. Waddilove. Well, I think that it was probably set up on a trade 
basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. I suppose it was required that all of these musicians 
be members of a union in order to work in their occupation? 

Mr. WADDILO^^i. Basicall}', yes; to be gainfully employed, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period of your membership in 1947 and 
1948, did your Communist Party group endeavor to interest itself in 
the election of any particular slate in your union, to act as a unit in 
doing that ? 

Mr. Waddilove. We sponsored a slate. I believe it was in 1948. 

Mr. Moulder. You say "we sponsored a slate" ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say "we" to whom are you referring? 

Mr. Waddilove. Tlie Communist Party at that time. 

Mr. Tavtsnner. Did the Communist Party, in your opinion, succeed 
in any substantial way to control any of the offices of your local union? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Scherer. Was the slate you sponsored comprised of members 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. It was people who they thought could, by 
virtue of their popularity, win the election. 

Mr. SciiERER. They weren't necessarily members of the Conununist 
Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. It was an antiadministration slate rather than pro- 
anything. 

Mr. Scherer. I didn't get that. 

Mr. Waddilove. You understand what I mean? 

Mr. Scherer. Antiadministration? Antiunion administration 
slate? 



3672 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. And they supported the antiadministration faction ? 

Mr. Waddilove. The antiadministration faction ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. So, regardless in what activities your group of the 
Communist Party engaged, it was not successful within your local 
union? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Did I understand from your testimony the fact to be 
then, that the Communist Party cell, the members of which were also 
members of the musicians' union, put up a slate which was antiunion ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Not antiunion; no. In other words, it was in 
opposition to the incumbents. It was not successful. 

Mr. Doyle. Did the Communist Party cell caucus on the slate as to 
who they would put up ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Not as a cell, I don't believe. 

Mr. Doyle. Was there any endeavor on the part of your Communist 
Party cell, as a cell, to shape the policies of the union ? 

Mr. Waddilove. It probably had quite a bit to do with the platform. 

Mr. Doyle. It probably had a good deal to do with the platform ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. To understand my question, let me ask it this way : 

Did the Communist Party cell of which you were a member, within 
the union, undertake to act in concert and influence the platform of 
the union as a Communist Party cell, that is, acting as a unit ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Not per se. I mean the whole opposition, again as 
in the case of the Independent Progressive Party, was not all Com- 
munist. It was more or less guided by them, or spearheaded, if you 
wish, but not in toto. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't quite hear. More or less guided by the Com- 
mimist Party cell policy. Is that it ? 

Mr. Waddilove. In cooperation with the other people in the same 
slate. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1 understood you to say that you left the Communist 
Party at the end of 1948 or very early in 1949. 

Mr. Waddilove. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your reason for leaving the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. I had several reasons. 

The failure of the Independent Progressive Party in 1948 made me 
see, or led me to believe, that the majority of the American people had 
rejected it and, therefore, it was not the right thing to do. 

And also I was raised in a very religious household. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice please? 

Mr. Waddilove. It is hard to throw off a religious background and, 
sooner or later, it crops up, according to the vernacular, and you have 
to live with it. 

The main reason: my mam disagreement with the party was ob- 
jecting 

Mr. Tavenner. The reporter is having difficulty hearing you. 
Would you repeat that, please. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3673 

Mr. Waddilove. If I can. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. You were speaking of your religious background. 

Mr. Waddilove. The Communist Party chooses to ignore God in the 
scheme of things. I don't say they deny God, but they choose to 
ignore it in the scheme of human events. And that was a basic dis- 
agreement as far as I was concerned. 

And, thirdly, it isn't pleasant to work, what you might say, under- 
ground for any length of time. I mean I like to be able to look people 
in the eye once in a while. And I was tired of being a fugitive from 
the human race. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you rebelled at the secret methods 
used by the Communist Party, as one point ? 

Mr. Waddilove. It finally got to be quite a task; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand that you, as a member of the Com- 
munist Party in Los Angeles, in 1947, 1948 and 1949 — I wish to specify 
not as a union man — were finding yourself obligated to work in secret 
and underground? You just used the word "underground." 

Mr. Waddilo\t:. Well, it was and is very, very unpopular, and you 
just — I don't know how else to put it, frankly. 

Mr. Doyle. You can't describe it any other way than "under- 
ground," if that is what you were required to do. That is where rats 
and mice hide generally. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of your reaction to those matters, what 
did you do ? 

Mr. Waddilove. I dropped out of the party. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you give any notice of any kind of your con- 
templated action? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You just quit? 

Mr. Waddilove. I just dropped out; quit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any effort made at any later period to get you 
back into the Communist Party? 

Mr. Waddilo\t;. Nothing very serious; no. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you severed all connections with the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Absolutely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the action that you took in 1949 final and 
complete ? 

Mr. WADDILo^^:. Absolutely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you knowledge of Communist Party activities 
on the part of any of the members of your group since the time you 
withdrew ? 

Mr. Waddilove. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, any questions? 

Mr, Doyle. May I inquire on a few points? 

I think, Mr. Chairman, my recollection is that in connection with 
the circulation of petitions, by the Communist Party and others pos- 
sibly, in Los Angeles County to qualify the Independent Progressive 
Party as a legal party in my State, there were some 11,000 signatures 
on the IPP petitions in Los Angeles County. 

Did you as one of the circulators, as a Communist, tell any of the 
people who signed the petition for you that you were a Communist 
and that your Communist cell was circulating this petition? 



3674 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. WADDILO^^E. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Why not ? Why didn't you reveal that it was the Com- 
munist Party that ^Yas circulating the IPP petition? 

]Mr. Waddilove. That isn't the way it worked. In other words, we 
were doing it apparently as private citizens. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, the Communist Party was doing it 
secretly and as an underground operation. Is that correct? 

jNIr. Waddilove. In essence. 

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, the re<!ord will show that in 
former hearings in California we have an abundance of testimony 
under oath by former leaders in the IPP in California who were also 
top leaders in the Communist Party in California that the Communist 
Party in California not only circulated these petitions, but they 
dictated the leadership of the IPP in many, many cases in California 
during that campaign. I am sure the record will reveal that fact in 
our previous hearings. 

I wish to thank the witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jacksox. Mr. Chainnan, I have here a communication alleged- 
ly signed by some 22 people who indicate that they are members of 
Local 47, American Federation of Musicians. I want to ask the wit- 
ness if he has seen this letter. It constitutes a protest against the hear- 
ings of the House Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

jNTr. Waddilove. Yes; I saw a copy of it. 

^Iv. Jacksox. Did 3'ou read it? 

Mr. Waddilo\te. No. 

Mr. Jackson. It is very difficult for me to believe that this letter, 
signed by 22 members, constitutes an expression of what I under- 
stand is a union membership of 15,000 musicians in this area. 

I should like to ask the witness after he reads the letter if he feels, 
from his own association within the musician's organization, that 
the letter constitutes a majority opinion? 

ISIr. Waddilove. I would say no. 

Mr. Jackson. Since you received your subpena to appear before 
the committee, have you been approached by any person, other than 
investigators for this committee, relative to your appearance? 

Mr. Waddilove. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. "Waddilove, I have 1 or 2 questions to ask you. 

First, as to the name of the Communist Party group that you be- 
longed to : What was its name, if it had a name or designation as a 
group? You have referred to it as a Communist Party group, and 
I assume that it had some identification other than just a Communist 
Party grou]). 

Mr. Waddilove. I think it was called the Steinmetz Club. 

Mr. Moulder. AVhat ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Steinmetz, as I recall it. 

Mr. INIouLDEK. And, also, according to your information — and I 
believe you referred to it as hearsay information — that the total mem- 
bership totaled approximately 70 or 75. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3675 

Mr. Waddilove. That is what I heard ; yes. 

Mr. Moulder. You understood that ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Of that number, how many have you identified dur- 
ing your testimony as having been members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Waddilove. Roughly 20. 

Mr. Moulder. You have named 20. I believe I recall your testi- 
mony that Mrs. Esther Roth was a member of the Communist Party. 
Was she a musician ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. And also a registrar, or deputy registrar? 

Mr. Ta^t;nner. Deputy registrar of voters. 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. On what do you base your opinion about her being 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Waddilo\t:. She attended meetings of our group. 

Mr. Moulder. Participated in Communist Party meetings? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. MoLTLDER. As referred to by ^Mr. Jackson, closed Commmiist 
Party meetings ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. As I understand your testimony no other person 
could attend those meetings, unless he was a bona fide member of the 
Communist Party at that time. Is that correct? 

Mr. Waddilove. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. As stated bv Mr. Jackson, anyone can become a 
deputy registrar. It has no oMcial signilicain-e other than that every 
citizen has authority to take a form and have someone else sign it 
and refer to themselves as being a deputy registrar. 

Mr. Waddilove. Right. 

Mr. Moulder. Then Mrs. Roth was a musician, instead of a public' 
official. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Waddilove. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Moulder. That is what I understand. 

On behalf of the committee, Mr. Waddilove, we wish to express 
our gratitude and appreciation for your sincere and honest coopera- 
tion with this committee in giving your testimony. 

You are excused as a witness, and you may claim your witness fees 
from the deputy clerk who sits just behind you. 

The committee will stand in recess for a period of 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a short recess was taken. Representatives Moulder, 
Doyle, Jackson, and Scherer being present.) 

(At the expiration of the recess the committee was reconvened, 
Representatives Moulder, Doyle, and Scherer being present.) 

Mr. Moulder. The hearing will be in order, please. 

All conversation will cease. 

Are you ready to proceed with another witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Ta\t:nxer. Yes, sir. 

Edith Rapport, please come forward. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room 
at this point. ) 

Mrs. Rapport. My attorney is not with me. I am waiting for my 
attorney. 



3676 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Moulder. The witness will take the witness stand. 

The committee will come to order, please. 

Are you Mrs. Edith Rapport ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to 
give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you, God ? 

Mrs. Rapport. I do. 

Mr. Moulder. The photographers will please be seated. 

You may proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF EDITH RAPPOET (MES. GEOEGE EAPPOET) 
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, DANIEL G. MAESHALL 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ? 

Mrs. Rapport. I will have to wait until my attorney is seated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your attorney is now seated. Will you please state 
your name ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Edith Rapport. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please ? 

Mrs. Rapport. How do you have it spelled ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that the witness be di- 
rected to answer the question ? 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Rapport. It is a waste of time and duplication. However, I 
will spell it — R-a-p-p-o-r-t. 

Mr. Marshall. Mr. Moulder, may I address you, please? 

I am going to inquire, is any recording being made of these proceed- 
ings other than the stenographic reporting of the hearing? 

Mr. Motjlder. The committee has no knowledge of any recordings 
being made of the proceedings. 

Mr. Marshall, In other words, no tape recording is being made of 
this hearing. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Moulder. That is correct. 

Please proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. Will counsel who just addressed the chairman 
please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Marsil^ll. Daniel G. Marshall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you appearing with the witness ? 

Mr. Marshall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mrs. Rapport? 

Mrs. Rapport. I was born December 18, and I would rather not tell 
my age. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that the witness be di- 
rected to give the date of her birth. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. In reading some of the other testimony I notice that 
you gave the actresses or peo])le in the acting profession preferences as 
to answering their age or telling their age, and I, being a professional 
person, would rather not disclose my age. 

Mr. Moulder. The Chair will speak for the committee, in stating 
that the purpose of directing you to answer the question is to inform 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3677 

you of the dangers which you might be confronted with in connection 
with being in contempt of Congress, and, in so advising you and direct- 
ing you to answer the question, it is not in the nature of or spirit of a 
threat, but for your own interest in order to protect you from such 
future proceedings in the nature of contempt. 

Therefore, the committee directs you to answer the question. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Very well, December 18, 1912. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mrs. Rapport. Minsk, Russia. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien did you come to this country ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I really don't quite remember the date, but I would 
say approximately 1923 or 1924. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I am a citizen by derivation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Through your mother or your father ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Through my father. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your father's name? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Would you like to drag my father into this, too? 
You find that it is necessary to drag my entire family into this 
hearing ? 

Mr. ScHEREH. I ask that the witness be directed to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

I can see in no manner how that would be a reflection upon your 
father for you to admit that you are his daughter. 

Mrs. Rapport. I think anyone who is mentioned by the committee 
is enough to drag him through the mud. 

Mr. Jackson. As a matter of proper identification, I ask that the 
witness be directed to answer. 

Mrs. Rapport. I think I am identified sufficiently. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed 

Mrs. Rapport. I assure you that I am the person who has been 
subpenaed. My name is Edith Rapport. I received your subpena, 
and I am here. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think we have a right to determine whether this 
person is a naturalized citizen by derivation. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. The question, therefore, as to her father's name, is 
perfectly proper to determine whether or not the citizenship as she 
indicated is correct. 

Mr. Moulder. For the reasons stated by Mr. Jackson and by Mr. 
Scherer, you are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Rapport. All right. 

My father's name is Max Rubin. 

Mr. Tavenner. IVlien and where was he naturalized? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I do not know the exact date, Mr. Tavenner. I 
think it is in approximately 1927, in New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you living in New York City at that time? 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes ; I was. 



3678 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to California to reside? 

Mrs. Rapport. I was in California twice. Which time are you 
referring to ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us begin with the first time. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. The first time, approximately 1930 or 1929. I can't 
tell you the exact year. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live in California at that time? 

Mrs. Rapport. You are making me go back an awfully long time. 
I don't have that recollection. I believe just a couple of years, 
approximately. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you married at the time you came to Cali- 
fornia in 1929 or 1930? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes ; I was married. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your husband's name is George Rapport? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Are you familiar with the rules of procedure that 
you sent me ? 

I think this was sent to me by Mr. "Wlieeler's office, representing this 
committee. I was asked a question. Will you permit me to finish 
this question ? 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, it is obvious that Mr. Tavenner is not 
asking her to testify against her husband. He wants to know the 
identity of her husband. 

I ask that the witness be directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Wliat was the question ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Obviously you can't seem to get together on this, 
can you ? 

Mr. Moulder. We are trying to be very respectful. We will be 
respectful to you as a witness. 

Mrs. Rapport. Thank you very kindly. 

Mr. Moulder. 1 merely asked a question. Because of the sound 
effects I couldn't understand what it was. 

Please repeat the question, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked her if her husband's name was George 
Rapport. 

Mr. SciiERER. A perfectly proper question for the purpose of identi- 
fication. Certainly it is not violating the rules of the committee. 

Mrs. Rapport. May I read this little Rules of Procedure, this 
little booklet, as to how a witness should behave ? I quote : 

The confidential relationship between husband and wife shall be respected, 
and, for reasons of public policy, one spouse shall not be questioned coucerninor 
the activities of the other. 

Mr. Moulder. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is nothing confidential about one's marriage. 

May I ask she be directed to answer the question. 

IVfrs. Rapport. I will refuse to answer this question on the gi'ounds 
of the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Jackson. I ask that a direction be given to the witness to 
answer as a matter of identification. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, the witness is directed to answer 
the question for the reason given by Mr. Jaclcson. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA 3679 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. "V\niat was the question, please? 

Mr. Tavenner. Read the question. 

(Whereupon, the reporter read from his notes, as follows:) 

Your husband's name is George Rapport? 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes ; it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. AYas your name Edith Rapport at the time you 
came to California in 1929 or 1930 ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes; it w^as. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you lived here about 2 years at 
that time? 

Mrs. Rapport. I said approximately. I don't quite remember the 
date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you return to New York from California? 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the end of that period ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return to California from NeAV 
York? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I don't have the recollection as to when I returned. 
I would say approximately between the period of 1934 and 1936, some- 
where between there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Somewhere between 1934 and 1936 ? 

Mrs. Rapport. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live on your return to California in 
1934 or 1936 ? 

Mrs. Rapport. How do you expect me to remember that ? 

Mr. ScHERER. If you do not remember, just say you do not remem- 
ber. 

Mrs. Rapport. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside now ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I will be very happy to write my address. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, counsel has asked the witness where 
she resides now. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. He did not ask the witness to write her address. 

Mrs. Rapport. Will you tell me what the pertinency of that is? 
I think that you have me identified pretty well. I have been served 
with a subpena at my home, and you have my address right in front 
of you. And I feel that the reason I would like to 

Mr. Moulder. You are so directed, as requested by Mr. Scherer. 

Mrs. Rapport. 3782 Tracy. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided there ? 

Mrs. Rapport. A year and a half. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many places have you resided since 1934 or 
1936, whichever is the proper date of your return to California ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I would like to know what was the purpose of this 
committee in inviting me at this point, with the threat of arrest unless 
I appeared. To question me as to where I live and what State I 
resided? How I traveled? Wlien and where and why? 



3680 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to 
answer the question. 

Mrs. Rapport. I claim the privileges under the fifth — the first sup- 
plemented by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Moulder. May I first ask counsel to give us a short explanation 
of the purpose of that question, as to how many places the witness 
has resided since the date of her last return and establishment of 
residence in California. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will be more specific with the witness. 

Did you reside at 27061/2 Boulder Street on June 9, 1938 ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I will refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth, of which I am very 
proud and for which I will fight and protect. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you reside at 527 North Cummings, Los Angeles, 
on the 13th day of September, 1940 ? 

Mrs. Rapport. I will give you the same answer, Mr. Tavenner, and 
claim the privilege of the first amendment supplemented by the fifth, 
which I will fight to protect. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness need not make any comment in that re- 
spect. You refuse to answer for the reason just given. 

Mrs. Rapport. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Irene Stark? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I will decline to answer that on the same grounds 
as stated before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used the name "Irene Stark" ? 

Mr. Rapport. I will decline to answer that on the same grounds, 
the first and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you given the name Irene Stark as a Com- 
munist Party name ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Aren't you getting a little bit sick and tired of asking 
the same questions ? 

I decline to answer this question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was your name changed within the Commmiist 
Party on April 23, 1935, from Edith Rubin to Irene Stark ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds, the first and fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a Communist Party membership book 
No. 73,561, showing the 1937 memberehip for an individual by the 
name of Irene Stark, and as having been issued on December 17, 1936, 
and signed by William Schneiderman. 

Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not that was your 
Communist Party book? 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

Mr. Marshall. Is there a question pending now? 

Mr. Moulder. Plense repeat the question, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner, Will the reporter read it, please. 

^The reporter read from his notes as requested.) 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I will decline to answer that question. As a matter 
of fact, my attorney will not even permit me to look at it. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3681 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that the witness be ordered to examine the 
book as directed by counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. I return the document to the witness and ask her 
to examine it, and state whether she had ever seen it before. 

(Document again handed to counsel for the witness.) 

Mrs. RAProRT. Is this a new question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You are not examining the document. 

Mrs. Rapport. I don't know which question 

Mr. Moulder. The question is asking the witness to examine the 
book, and state whether or not she had even seen it before? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. There was another question preceding that which 
Mr. Scherer requested. 

Mr. Scherer. That was the question that I asked she be directed to 
answer ; namely, she never looked at the book during the time she 

Mr. Moulder. There is a considerable difference between the two 
questions in that respect. I believe you should define them. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will withdraw my question. 

Mr. Moulder. We will say that this last question is the one now 
pending. 

Mrs. Rapport. I am sorry. Which question was withdrawn? 

Mr. Moulder. You are now requested, in the nature of a question, 
to examine the document which counsel has referred to as a Com- 
munist Party book. 

Mrs. Rapport. That isn't a question, is it? This is a request or 
demand. 

Mr. Moulder. It is being handed to you as an exhibit, giving you 
an opportunity to examine it. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Thank you very much, but I don't want the oppor- 
tunity to examine it. 

Mr. Moulder. What are your reasons for refusing? 

Mrs. Rapport. I am simply not interested. I think it has nothing 
to do with what I was called hero for. I am a musician 

Mr. Moulder. It has everything in the world to do with what you 
are called here for. We ask you to examine the exhibit. 

Mrs. Rapport. Are you asking me or are you demanding me to 
examine this ? 

Mr. Moulder. We direct you to examine the exhibit which has been 
handed to you for your examination. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. That is in order that you might have a fair oppor- 
tunity to qualify in making a response to the next question which will 
be propounded to you. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I won't answer any of these questions that have fol- 
lowed this and respecting this document. I still claim the privilege 
under the first and fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United 
States. 

Mr. Scherer. May I make this observation, because what happened 
will not be shown by the record : 

Counsel for the witness took the exhibit from the hand of our 
investigator, and has failed and refused to present it to the witness. 
In my opinion, he is guilty of contempt. 



3682 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Moulder. Let us proceed. 

Mr. Marshall. I object to that as an interference with my right to 
counsel this witness. I am waiting for any lawful order of this 
committee. 

Mr. Moulder. May I have it ? Or will you please hand the Com- 
munist Party book to our investigator Mr. Wlieeler? 

Mr. Marshall. Let the record show that I have handed back to Mr. 
Wheeler the same document which Mr. Wheeler handed to me. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well, Mr. Marshall. 

Now will the investigator, Mr. Wheeler hand this 1937 Communist 
Party membership book which was referred to by counsel over to the 
witness for the purpose of giving her an opportunity to examine it in 
order that she might qualify to respond to the next question which will 
be propounded by counsel. 

Mr. Scherer. Let the record show that counsel prevented his client 
from accepting the book, took the book in his own hand and threw it 
back on the table. 

I want the record to show that, and, in my opinion, counsel is guilty 
of contempt. 

Mr. Marshall. Let the record show that no document will be handed 
to my client unless it is handed to me first. 

Mr. Scherer. Let the record also show that on two i^revious occa- 
sions this document was handed to counsel and he refused to hand it 
to his client. 

Mr. Marshall. Then I returned it to Mr. Wheeler because the 
chairman told me to return it. 

Mr. Jackson. Regular order, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Let the record show that the witness refuses to accept 
the document which has been referred to by our counsel as a Commu- 
nist Party membership book for examination in order to respond to 
the next question that will be propounded. 

Mr. Jackson. The record should show the witness has taken the 
book. 

Mr. Marshall. Mr. Moulder, you have handed us a document, but, 
by accepting it, we don't want to vouch for the description you gave it. 

Mr. Moulder. We understand that. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you open the book and examine it. 

Will you permit the witness to examine the contents of the book, 
Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Scherer. The record should show that the counsel took the 
book from the witness before she opened it, and that the witness 

Mr. Moulder. Now the witness is examining the book. We will 
have order in the hearing room, please. Let us proceed. 

Mr. Marshall. I didn't want the record to show the witness has 
examined the book. 

The document was handed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now that you have finally examined the book, will 
you tell the connnittee whether you have ever seen it before? 

Mrs. Rapport. After all this game back and forth that you seem to 
be enjoying j)laying, I will decline to answer that question on the 
grounds previously stated, the first and supplemented by the fifth 
amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3683 

Mr. Tavenner. ]\Ir. Chairman, I desire to introduce the document 
in evidence, ask permission of the committee to have a photostatic 
copy of it made, using that copy in evidence in lieu of the original 
and that the document be marked "Eapport Exhibit No. 1 ?" 

Mr. Moulder. Hearing no objection on the part of any member of 
the committee, without objection the document referred to by counsel 
is received and will be marked as "Eapport Exhibit No. 1" It will 
be admitted in evidence with the understanding that the exhibit can 
be withdrawn after a photostatic copy has been made and offered in 
evidence in lieu of the original. 

(Eapport exhibit No. 1 follows :) 

Rapport Exhibit No. 1 
Osmsminht Vmtf of dbfe U. S. A. 



in? 

Memb«x"ship Book 



TTTnn 



'Name it^^^ff^k<r-f.. .'r'^^^^^. ... 
State . .V^'l^sgl^ County <r?v ;. .^^ . , 

^^l\ 



[^ I»HlatJoa 
Stamp 

Wo., 




T ' 'ft 

\^mn&iu»^ .. i 5..-. strict 
Organijfer anrt Party SeaJ 



No wWfS$S)i^fytsK0lgf^ip Book valid uctesa %t 
I»as Party S«aJ jft&mped on. Issaed by the 
Centra,! CoJ.iraJttee. CPUS A 
>209 



Mr. Tavenner. I now hand to the witness a 1938 Communist 
Party membership book. No, 58,571 in the name of Edith Eap- 
port, issued December 9, 1937, bearing the signature of Schneiderman. 
This book shows numerous dues stamps for the month of January 
through December of 1938, including international solidarity stamps, 
midyear control stamp. And I ask you to examine it, please, and 
state whether or not it is j'our Communist Party book. 

( Document handed to counsel for the witness. ) 

Mr. Moulder. The record will show that the witness and her counsel 
have had an opportunity to examine the Communist Party member- 
ship book referred to by counsel. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr, Tavenner. I asked the witness whether or not it was her Com- 
munist Party book. 

77436— 56— pt. 7 3 



3684 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Rapport. I will decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce this second Communist Party 
membership book in evidence, to be marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 2," 
with the privilege, as in the other case, of substituting a photostatic 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask counsel to identify at this point, the William 
Schneiderman who signed these tAvo books you have identified as 
Communist Party membership books. 

Mr. Tavenner. William Schneiderman was secretary of the Com- 
munist Party for the State of California. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. I now hand you a receipt card, No. 58,571, bearing 
date of December 9 — but the year is not complete — with a signature 
on it. 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you whether or not the signature Edith 
Rapport, appearing on that receipt card, is your signature ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I don't intend to answer any questions 

Mr. Moulder. Will you desist a moment, please ? 

Mrs. Rapport. I have been asked a question. Will you let me 
answer ? 

Mr. Moulder. Have you looked at the card referred to by counsel ? 

Rapport Exhibit No. 2 






««i;,;*": 



M'^ aS^ 






-**-■ 







COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3685 
Rapport Exhibit No. 2. — Continued 




19$ B M:;75Bersfc 





1938 Member' skip Du4t^ 





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3686 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Rapport. I have no interest in looking at it because the answer 
is going to be exactly the same as it was. If you keep me here for the 
next month I will not cooperate with this committee, and I will invoke 
the same constitutional amendments, Nos. 1 and 5. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, may I make an observation? 

Without examining the card, how do you know it is not a receipt 
for a contribution to the Red Cross ? 

Mrs. Rapport. If you were listening, Mr. Jackson, you would hear 
that Mr. Tavenner described this document. 

Mr. Jackson. He said there was a signature on there. I am not 
absolutely certain what it was. 

Mrs. Rapport. Apparently you are not listening. 

Mr. Marshall. Let's have the record read. 

Mrs. Rapport. Will you read the record, please. 

Mr. Jackson. You make it difficult to get any coherent, intelligent 
idea of what is going on. 

Mr. Marshall. She is very intelligent about it. You missed the 
question. 

Mrs. Rapport. You make it very difficult by asking me to appear 
here. 

Mr. Jackson. Counsel knows the prerogatives before this commit- 
tee, and his sole prerogative is to advise his client. 

Mr. Marshall. That I intend to do. 

Mr. Jackson. That you are going to do, or you are not going to be 
sitting there very long. 

Mrs. Rapport. You are not going to threaten me. 

Mr. Jackson. You will sit there as long as you comport j^ourself 
in accordance with the rules of this committee, with which rules you 
are very familiar from prior representation before the committee. 

Mr. Marshall. And I intend to advise my client. 

Mr. Jackson. Confine your remarks, Mr. Marshall, to your client. 

Mr. Marshall. You are confused. Lawyers aren't here as a matter 
of grace; they are here as a matter of right. 

Mr. Jackson. Whatever rights you have here are clearly set forth in 
the rules of procedure. 

Mr. Marshall. They are rights ; they are not courtesies and priv- 
ileges of this committee. 

Mr, Jackson. You are here to advise your client; not to carry on 
any debate with the committee. You know that perfectly well. 

Mr. Moulder. Let's proceed with the hearing. 

I wish to say, of course, we realize you are not cooperating with 
the committee. We are going to have every respect for your ap- 
pearance here. But, in all fairness to yourself and tlie committee, you 
should not refuse to look at the exhibit offered to you and to deny or 
affirm whether or not it is your signature. That is for the protection 
of your best interests to do so. 

Mrs. Rapport. You have not protected my interests by calling me 
here, by dragging me down here and interfering with my musical 
profession and with my life. You haven't cooperated with me. 

And I don't intend to cooperate with you, and I will stand on the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. First, you haven't seen the exhibit. I will insist that 
you accept the exhibit and look at it. 

Mrs. Rapport. All right, I will look at it. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3687 

Mr. Moulder. After having examined the exhibit, may I ask 
counsel to repeat the question. 

Mrs. Rapport. You needn't bother. I will not answer that ques- 
tion, and I will stand on the privileges granted to me by the first and 
fifth amendments of the United States Constitution. 

Mr. TAVENNEii. Now, that you have finished, let me ask you the 
question. 

Mrs. Rapport. You asked me the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that your signature appearing on the card? 

Mrs. Rapport. I will refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why ? 

Mrs. Rapport. On the grounds previously stated, and I do not have 
to go into any kind of explanations to you. 

Mr. Moulder. You say on the grounds previously stated. You 
Imve stated so many grounds, some of them on the constitutional basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to introduce in evidence the 
receipt card No. 58,571 and ask that it be marked "Rapport Exhibit 
No. 3." 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mrs. Rapport. The first amendment supplemented by the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have just stated, a moment ago, that you were 
a member of the musical profession. Have you been a member of the 
musical profession since 1934 or 1936 when you said you returned to 
California from New York? 

Rapport Exhibit No. 3 



)85 


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I have received 
Mfmbhrship Boot 



State. . ;■ fr,<*r*<l District, j 

County* %, . , . r:-. City . : f, ;' ,,...''. 
Sectlais . .%-s ^^ . . Uiait . . frf, . 

B© mm fo $lgB and return fo i\m 
membership dlrecfor. 



3688 COMLIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. What is the pertinency of that question; may I ask? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness be directed 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Tlie witness is directed to answer the question. 

Certainly it would have no tendency to incriminate you to answer 
the question as to whether or not you were a member of the musicians 
union. 

Mr. Marshall. The musicians union ? 

Mr. Moulder. That is the way I understood it. 

Counsel, is that the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I didn't ask about the musicians union. 

Mr. Moulder. I understood you to say that. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. No, sir. My question was whether or not she was a 
member of the musical profession from the time she returned here in 
1934 or 1936. 

Mrs. Rapport. I hesitate to answer that question because I know 
very well what will follow. You are trying to drag and interfere with 
the life of our union, and, therefore, I am simply not interested in 
answering that question. 

According to this morning's paper — and I would like to 

Mr. Tavenner. The witness volunteered the information that she 
■was a member of the musical profession. I have merely asked her 
wdiether she was a member of that profession in 1934 or 1936. If she 
ever had any reason for not answering it she has waived it, and I ask 
that she be directed to answer it. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. What year was that? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1934 or 1936 when you said you returned from the 
city of New York to California. 

Mrs. Rapport. No ; I don't believe I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you begin your professional musical 
career in California? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Approximately 1947 or 1948 or 1949 or thereabouts. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an affidavit of reg- 
istration, bearing date the 18th day of March 1936, and ask you to 
examine it. 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs, Rapport. My counsel advises me not to examine this document 
that was handed to him. 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to examine the document referred 
to by counsel which has been presented to you. 

Mrs. Rapport. Excuse me. I want to put my glasses on. I can't 
see. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness has examined the document. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, whether or 
not that is an affidavit of registration signed by you ? 

Mrs. Rapport, I don't have any assurance that this may not be a 
phony document, and, therefore, I will refuse to identify it or answer 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3689 

your question on the grounds of the first amendment supplemented by 
the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. If that is her reason for refusing to answer, Mr. 
Chairman, it certainly could not be a valid reason, and I request that 
the witness be directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. It certainly isn't responsive to the question when you 
identify it as a phony. Therefore, the witness is directed to answer 
the question. 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the document affidavit of regis- 
tration dated March 18, 1936 in evidence, and ask that it be marked 
"Kapport Exhibit No. 4." 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 7, p. 3664, and will 
not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the commit- 
tee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, the request of counsel is granted. 

Mr. Tavenner. I call attention to the fact that this affidavit of regis- 
tration shows on its face that it was canceled on June 9, 1938. 

I now hand the witness a second affidavit of registration bearing 
date of June 9, 1938, and I will ask the witness to examine it and see 
whether or not the signature appearing there is her signature, and 
whether it is her affidavit of registration. 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

ilrs. Rapport. My counsel advises me not to examine this docu- 
ment. 

JVIr. Moulder. The witness is directed to examine the document in 
order to respond to the question. 

The record will show that the witness is now examining the docu- 
ment with counsel. 

Now would you repeat the question, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr, Tavenner. My question is, that after the witness has examined 
it, whether or not the signature appearing there is her signature and 
whether it is her affidavit of registration. 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I have it, please. 

IVIr. Chairman. I desire to introduce the document in evidence, and 
ask that it be marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 5." 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 1, p. 3664, and will 
not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the commit- 
tee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Mr. Chairman, exhibit No. 5 shows that it is a Com- 
munist Party registration, the name of the person is Edith Rapport, 
her father's name is Max Rubin, and that it was canceled on September 
24, 1942. 

I now hand the witness a photostatic copy of a document which 
the staff, in the course of its investigation, has procured. The docu- 
ment is over the signature of Celeste Strack ancl is entitled "Commu- 
nist Party Appointment of Members of the State Central Committee 
Meeting at Sacramento in the Year 1940." 

Will you exhibit the document, please, to the witness ? 



3690 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

(Witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will the witness please examine the document and 
state whether or not she observes on it the signature of Miss Celeste 
Strack? 

Mrs. Kapport. How many questions do you have pending and what 
are they? 

Mr. Tavenner. I think you know very well; but if you desire to 
have it repeated, I will. 

Will you examine the document and state whether or not you recog- 
nize the signature of Miss Strack to that document ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Rapport. On the advice of my counsel, I refuse to answer that 
question on the grounds of the first amendment, supplemented by the 
fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the document again, please, and 
state whether or not your name appears as the second name in a group 
of three names ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Just a minute. I haven't examined the document. 

Mr. Jackson. I ask that the witness be directed, as a basis for suc- 
ceeding questions, to examine the document. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. 

But may I suggest the proper procedure would be to hand the 
witness a document marked "Exhibit So-and-so." Then ask her to 
examine it, without reference to any of the contents in the instrument 
which might give her some cause or basis for claiming the fifth amend- 
ment. If she refuses to examine the exhibit, she will be directed to 
examine it, and we will then proceed with the questioning. 

Then we might have some basis for contempt. 

But I think w^hen you couple the request for examination with the 
naming of certain people, there might he some cause for her to refuse 
to answer on those grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I thought counsel had shown her the document. 

Mr. Jackson. I press my request for direction of the witness to 
examine the document. 

Mr. Moulder. May I have the document ? 

(Document handed to the chairman.) 

Mr. Moulder. What is the last exhibit number ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The last one was 5. This would be 6. 

Mr. Moulder. We ask the witness to examine this document marked 
for identification purposes as "Rapport Exhibit No. 6." 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

Mr. Marshall. It has no marking on it. 

Mr. Moulder. Have the exhibit marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 0." 

(The document referred to was marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 6" 
for identification.) 

Mr. Moulder. Now that the document is marked "Rapport Exhibit 
No. 6," the witness is requested to examine that exhibit. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3691 

Mrs. Rapport. On the advice of my counsel, I refuse to examine 
this document, on the grounds of the first amendment supplemented 
by the fifth. 

Mr. Jackson. I ask the witness be directed to examine it. 

Mr. IMouLDER. The witness is directed to examine the document 
marked "Exhibit No. 6." 

The record will now reveal that the witness, in conference with 
counsel, is examining exhibit No. 6 which has been handed to her. 

Will you ask the next question concerning exhibit No. 6, Mr. 
Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Keep the document there. On further examination 
of the document, do you see your name appearing in the second of a 
group of three names, about the middle of the document? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now I would like to have the document, please. 

Mr. Moulder. It was marked as an exliibit and then offered to the 
witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. I now desire to offer in evidence this document pre- 
viously identified as "Rapport exhibit No. 6," to be retained in the files 
of the committee. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think I should read this document 
into the record. 

Communist Party appointment of members of the State central committee 
meeting at Sacramento in the year 1940. 

I, Celeste Strack, duly qualified as a delegate to the State convention at 
Sacramento in the year 1940, by virtue of my nomination to the office of Con- 
gress, 13th District, on the 27th day of August 1940, upon the Communist ticket, 
do hereby appoint the following three voters who shall be members of the State 
central committee to meet at Sacramento, September 20, 1940, to wit : George 
Rapport, 527 North Cummings, Los Angeles, Mrs. Edith Rapport, 527 North 
Cummings, Los Angeles, Louis Baron, 931 Vo South Mathews, Los Angeles. 

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 13th day of 
September 1940. 

Miss Celeste Stback. 

Did you attend, Mrs. Rapport, the State convention of the Com- 
munist Party in tlie year 1940 ? 

Mrs. Rapport. You know very well I am going to refuse to answer 
that question, and I do so on the ground of the first amendment sup- 
plemented by the fifth. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I now hand you a photostatic copy of a document 
which the staff procured in the course of its investigation, which pur- 
ports to be a proxy signed by you. It is marked for identification as 
"Rapport Exhibit No. 7." 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. After your examination I will ask you a question. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. On the advice of my counsel, I refuse to examine this 
document, on the grounds of the first amendment supplemented by the 
fifth. 



3692 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to examine the document 
marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 7." 

The record should show at this point that the witness and counsel 
are carefully examining the document marked "Rapport Exhibit 
No. 7." 

Mr. Marshall. Did you say carefully ? 

Mr. Moulder. We have no need for any comment on that, Mr. Mar- 
shall. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you examine the document carefully enough to 
see whether or not your name is signed to it? 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then will you look at it carefully enough so that 
you will be qualified to answer my question. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated, 
on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to examine exhibit No. 7. 

(The witness confers with her counsel, examining document.) 

Mrs. Rapport. Under your order, I have looked at it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the signature appearing there your signature? 

Mrs. Rapport. I refuse to answer that question on the ground of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence, ask that 
it be marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 7," and made a part of the printed 
record. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection. Rapport exhibit No. 7, is ad- 
mitted in evidence. 

Mr. Marshall. You mean without objection from us. We have 
objections. Would you like to hear them? 

^fr. Moulder. Without objection from any member of the commit- 
tee, Rapport exhibit No. 7 is admitted into evidence. 

Mr. Jackson. I ask that counsel for the witness be directed to con- 
fine his activities in this hearing room to advice to his client; not to 
the committee. 

Mr. Moulder. That is a rule of the committee, of course. The wit- 
ness has an opportunity to confer with counsel and be accompanied 
by counsel, without any right or privilege of making remarks or argu- 
ment to members of the committee. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to tell us earlier in your testimony 
that you began your professional career in music in 1947, or 1937. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. I am not quite clear about that, Mr. Tavenner, and 
I would like to have the record read to refresh my memory. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't think that will be necessary. 

Mrs. Rapport. What the questions were and what the answers were. 
I don't know whether you are repeating the same questions or trying 
to get me involved or what ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand perfectly what you mean. It is not 
necessary to look at the record. 

Mrs. Rapport. I don't understand what you mean, and you have 
asked me a question. And there is a difference. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3693 
Rappokt Exhibit No. 7 

COMMUNIST PARTY 



Proxy for Attendance at the State Central Committee Meeting 
at Sacramento, in the Year 1940 

I. ^J^....Asi±^.....£a.^:^^^t:^.. . duly qualified to 

sic as a member of the State Central Committee meeting at Sacramento in the year 1940 (September 
20, 1940), by virtue of (being- •-delegate nrthe St»t« Conveiuieit) (my appointment thereto by 

— .C..?.I?-..4>..£.£ i^Lt-tli^-Zi — ; this appointment having been duly filed in the office of the 

Secretary of State on the-. J.3_f-^. day of. ^.&.f> r^^kW— .t>..??;..:>r^_1940) (Strike out 

part inapplicable) do hereby designate i^_«l.J.J. <^ .yr..:S,.-S,.cL .; 

(post-office address) .7-2l 2 ^.O.r.J:h...^f^^J^C^_.lJ,£^.^A..n-.<j..^..{'^5 

as my proxy with full power to act for me in every respect as a duly qualified member of the State 
Central Committee meeting at Sacramento on the 20th day of September, 1940. 

In Witness Whekeof, / have hereunto set my hand this /.¥L day of 

September, 1940. 

(TYPE OR PRINT NAME BELOV SIGNATiniE) 

Signed and acknowledged before me this ..// day of September, 1940. 

Nottry PubU/ 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I understand perfectly. 

Mrs. Rapport. But I don't understand perfectly. 

]\fr. Tavenner. That isn't necessary because there is no question 
pending. 

Mr. Jackson. May I make an observation. 

If the fact that Communist Party membership has ever been 
established before the committee, it has been established here. It is 
quite obvious that there is going to be no comment, continued refusal 
to identify documents, signatures and everything else of the sort. 

Unless there is some particular reason to continue with the witness, 
I would suggest — we have 50 

Mr. Tavenner. I do have a particular reason. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Mr. Marshall. You are not finished? 

Mr. Tavenner. Now in 1948 were you engaged in the practice of 
your musical profession? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

]\Irs. Rapport. If I remember correctly, I gave you no exact dates, 
no specific dates. I said approximately. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Will you answer the question. Were you engaged 
in the practice of the musical profession in 1948 ? 




3694 COMMinsTIST activities in the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Eapport. I told you I don't remember exactly whether it was 
1948 or 1949 or 1947 and 1950. I said approximately. I say the same 
thing now; approximately. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking what you told me. Tell me now 
were you practicing your musical profession in 1948 ? 

Mrs. Kapport. You have asked me that question before. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. You should know 
whether or not you were engaged in the practice of your profession 
in 1948. That is a very simple question. 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. So far as I remember, I am not too certain about the 
exact year, but I may have practiced mj^ profession in 1948. 

Mr.'TAVENNER. Were you a member of the musicians branch of the 
Communist Party in 1948 ? 

Mrs. Rapport. Again you know that I am going to decline to an- 
swer that question on the grounds of the first amendment, supple- 
mented by the fifth. And this is beginning to sound like a broken 
record. 

Mr. Moulder. We want to give you the opportunity to respond to 
the question. 

Mrs. Rapport. Thank you very kindly for the opportunity, but I 
do not appreciate it. 

Mr. Jackson. That is no answer to the question. She said we 
know she is going to decline. We know it very well. But do you 
so decline? 

Mrs. Rapport. I do so decline, Mr. Jackson on the grounds of the 
first amendment supplemented by the fifth. If you care to, I will 
read it to you just to refresh your memory. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Tan^nner. Were you requested by the Communist Party to 
circulate a petition in 1948 to put the Independent Progressive Party 
on the ballot in the State of California ? 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a petition which, 
at the end of it, has an affidavit. 

I will have this petition marked for identification as "Rapport Ex- 
hibit No. 8." 

Mr. Moulder. Have it so marked. 

(The document referred to was marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 8" for 
identification.) 

(Document handed to counsel for the witness.) 

(The witness confers Avith her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. On the advice of my counsel, I will decline to ex- 
amine this document, on the first amendment supplemented bv the 
fifth. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee respectfully directs the witness to 
examine the exhibit handed to her, marked "Rapport Exhibit No. 8." 

Mrs. Rapport [after examining document]. I have looked at the 
document. 

Mr. Moulder. Have you examined the document? 

Mrs. Rapport. I have looked at it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you circulate that petition? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3695 

Mrs. Rapport. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated, the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenxer. I ofi'er the document in evidence, and ask that it be 
marked "Eapport Exhibit No. 8." 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 3, p. 3667, and will 
not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the committe's 
records. ) 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take an oath before a notary public that you 
did circulate this petition? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Rapport. The same question, and I will give you the same 
answer, on the grounds of the first amendment, supplemented by the 
fifth. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Rapport. I am going to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the first amendment, supplemented by the fifth. 

I would suggest that the committee investigate the unwarranted 
attack on a fellow artist by the name of Nat King Cole in the South. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mrs. Rapport. You are not interested in these things, obviously. 

Mr Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. DoYLE. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, ]Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder We will stand in recess until 1 : 30. 

(Whereupon, at !1 2: 15 p. m., the committee was recessed, to recon- 
vene at 1 : 30 p. m., the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION, MONDAY, APRIL 16, 1956 

(The committee was reconvened at 1 : 45 p. m., upon the expira- 
tion of the recess. Representatives Moulder, Doyle, Jackson, and 
Scherer being present.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will come to order. 

Will you call the next witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rubin Decker. Will you come forward, 
please? 

Mr, Moulder. Hold up your right hand and be sworn, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony which you are about to 
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Decker. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EUBIN DECKEE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
MOETIMER VOGEL 

Mr. Moulder. Be seated. 

Proceed with the examination of this witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, spelling both your 
first and last names, please? 

Mr. Decker. My full name is Rubin, R-u-b-i-n ; last name, Decker, 
D-e-c-k-e-r. 



3696 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by 
counsel. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. VoGEL. My name is Mortimer Vogel, V as in victory — o-g-e-1. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Decker? 

Mr. Decker. I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, August 12, 11)15. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside? 

Mr. Decker. Here in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 

Mr. Decker. I am a musician. 

Excuse me a moment. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us, please, sir, your educational 
background ? 

Mr. Decker. Yes ; I would be very happy to. 

Before graduating — high school in Cleveland — I won two solo 
awards as violist, both citywide and statewide. I was a member 
of a string quarter and orchestra that won a national award in 11)82. 
I was a scholarship student to the Interachen School of Music, which 
is a summer camp. Thereafter I attended Transylvania College in 
Lexington, Ky., also as a music scholarship student. And, if I 
may, it was here that I first received an education that I don't get 
in books. It is the education that had to do with denial of civil 
rights of 15 million people in the South. 

I wrote for the school paper, I wrote for the Civic. That is the 
city paper. I wrote music reviews, features. 

I graduated with a degree of bachelor of arts in English and 
journalism. I thereafter went to Indianapolis where I performed 
with the Indianapolis Symphony for 3 years. 

Mr, Tavenner. During what period of time was that? 

Mr. Decker. This was right after my graduation in 1938; 1938 
to 1941. 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr. Decker. Approximately ; yes. And some time in 1941, T went 
on a countrywide and Canadian tour as a member of the Ail-American 
Youth Symphony Orchestra conducted by Leopold Stokowski. 

I attended a year of studying at the Mnnhattan School of Music in 
New York. On my return to Los Angeles I performed with the 
Warner Janssen Symphony, wiiere, for a time, I played first viola. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return to California? 

Mr. Decker. I returned around 1941, about a year before I went 
into service, or shortly thereabouts. After my service in the Air Force 
I returned, went into one of the studios. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you returned to California in 1941. When 
were you in California prior to that time? 

Mr. Decker. It was quite intermittent : I came, then went back to 
finish college, and came back home and went back to go to the sym- 
phony, and I didn't stay too long in one place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just for short periods? 

Mr. Decker. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

Mr. Decker. After my return from service I started to perform in 
the studios here. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that ? 

Mr. Decker. I came out of service in 1945. 



COM]\CUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3697 

(Counsel confers with the witness.) 

Mr, Decker. Approximately. 

Shall I continue on education ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Decker. In 1948 I gave up my job at MGM Studio where I was 
under conti-act, and went to New Haven where I attended the School 
of Music at Yale University. It was here I got my bachelor of music 
degree, and master of music degree. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you go to New Haven? 

Mr. Decker, Around 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. What time in 1948 ? 

Mr. Decker. Well, it happened very quickly. At that point I was 
a little tired of studio work. I felt I needed more training. I felt I 
had more to learn before I could make myself the kind of musician I 
wanted to be. 

So, there was a quick exchange of telegrams between me and several 
music schools, and I attended Yale particularly because there was a 
composer there with whom I wanted to study. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the approximate date of your entrance at 
Yale ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. To the best of my recollection, it was the fall of 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that time you were here in California ? 

Mr. Decker. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were you doing in California at that particu- 
lar time? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. May I ask what you mean by "doing"? Nature of 
M^ork ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. What was your occupation ? How were you 
engaged ? 

Mr. Decker. Well, the musician's life being a very hazardous 
one 

Mr, Taatenner. As a musician. Is that what you mean? 

Mr. Decker. Unfortunately, I have done many other things, of 
necessity, besides being a musician, because we have to eat. I have 
done everything from dig ditches to work in carnivals to 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you also a member of the Communist Party 
at that time ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Was that one of the various things ? 

Mr. Decker. Are you serious in asking this question, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Ml Decker. Because I thought we were — I thought we were talk- 
ing about education, if I may say. 

Weren't we discussing education and training? This is what I 
thought. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; and you said you were engaged in various 
things at that time. So I am asking you whether you were a member 
of the Communist Party at that time. 

Mr. Decker. Well, if I may say, sir, I refuse to answer this question 
on the following grounds : One, I do not believe that this committee, 
under Public Law 601, which, as I understand it, was legislated into 



3698 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

existence to investigate areas of subversive propaganda and activi- 
ties — I feel that this committee by its very nature is operating in a 
sphere of ideas, opinions, associations, and that these ideas, opinions, 
and associations are guaranteed by the first amendment. 

And, if I may continue, I would like to quote here a very recent 
ruling by the Supreme Court in majority decision 

Ml". Moulder, The committee is familiar with the decisions of the 
Supreme Court. Counsel has asked you a question, and you can decline 
to answer and state your reasons therefore without going into a great 
deal of argumentative statements concerning the committee. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. You have a right to claim the privilege under the 
Constitution if you wish. 

Mr. Decker. Sir, with due respect to you, I was asked a question, 
and 1 am trying to answer it in the best way I know how. I claim that 
I could not answer under the grounds of, one, this rule which puts the 
committee in existence, and, for this reason I would like to be able to 
quote the Supreme Court in a decision last year, since it pertains to 
my first reason for declamation, if I may be allowed. 

jNIr. Moulder. Is it very long ? 

Mr. Decker. No ; it is very short. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. 

Mr. Decker. This is a decision of Quinn v. United States Go'vern- 
vient. in May 1955. This pertains to Public Law 601 : 

The power to investigate, broad as it may be, is also subject to recognized 
limitations. It cannot be used to inquire into private affairs unrelated to a valid 
legislative purpose. Nor does it extend to an area in which Congress is for- 
bidden to legislate. Similarly, the power to investigate must not be confused 
with any of the powers of law enforcement ; those powers are assigned under 
our Constitution to the executive and the judiciary. Still further limitations on 
the power to investigate are found in the specific individual guarantees of the 
Bill of Rights. 

It is quite short but very specific. 

Mr. Moulder. Are there any other reasons you wish to give? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Yes ; if I may be allowed to continue. 

I would like to decline on the basis of the first amendment, in which, 
as I gather generally, even though I have the amendments or the Bill 
of Rights here in front of me. Congress shall make no law abridging 
freedom of speech, press, or religion, or deny the citizen of right of 
people to peaceably assemble. 

I would like to say here, under the first amendment, that this also 
includes the artist who must be free to function in an atmosphere of 
freedom and nonconformity, free to function without fear or coercion. 

This is implicit in the first amendment. 

And also, in terms of association, I have the right to play where 
I want to, with whom I want to, wherever I want to. I have the 
right to interpret my music my way, and have no one tell me how 
to do it. 

Mr. Moulder. As chairman of tliis subcommittee, I feel it my duty 
to advise you the committee does not argue with you about those 
privileges and freedoms and rights. 

Tlie simple question was asked you as to whether or not j^ou were 
a member of the Communist Party during that period of time. And 



COMMXJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3699 

our Supreme Court lias held that the Communist Party is a conspiracy, 
that it is a subversive activity, and is a threat to our form of govern- 
ment in America. 

Therefore, what you are saying is very remote and has no connec- 
tion with the question propounded. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I believe I am still on my reasons. I mentioned one 
of the reasons I declined was on the basis 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, you are making a speech. We understand. 
We have read those decisions. 

Mr. Decker. Am I allowed to continue my reasons ? 

Mr. Scherer. The chairman may allow you to continue. I just 
wanted to call attention to that. 

Mr. Moulder. No ; I will not allow you to continue along that vein. 

Mr. Decker. Would you withdraw the question, sir ? 

Mr. Moulder. There is no argument. You are speaking to defend 
your attitude by making statements which we all believe in and which 
we all will defend. 

Mr. Jackson. The only reasons, if I may say, Mr. Chairman, which 
have any valid standing before the committee are the constitutional 
provisions which are available to a witness. It is not necessary to 
extend your remarks at any considerable length. Those provisions 
are available to you, and it is extraneous to go into any additional 
comment. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I can understand this, Mr. Jackson, and I will promise, 
or try to keep my remarks as close to the actual amendments and priv- 
ileges as I can. 

It is just I feel very strongly about this particular area of the 
colorature of the musical, which is why I brought it in even though I 
realize it may not have anything to do with the legal. I will try to 
keep it down. 

Mr. Scherer. You can play all you want, any place you want, play 
anything you want. AVe don't care. We are not interested. 

Mr. Decker. On the contrary, you are very interested because I am 
losing my job because you are here telling me what to play. 

Mr. Moulder. Why are you losing your job? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Because I work in a very sensitive industry at pres- 
ent, as I am sure you are well aware. 

The fact of having 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask you this question before you finish that 
one: 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Decker. Are you withdrawing the other question then? 

Mr. Moulder. No, we are not withdrawing that, but I want to ask 
you that question. 

Mr. Decider. I would rather finish one question before I go to the 
other. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask you to direct the witness to answer your ques- 
tion whether he is now a Communist. 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer whether or not you are 
now a member of the Communist Party. I think it is evident you are. 

77436 — 56— pt. 7 4 



3700 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Well, I will have to refuse to answer that question on 
the following constitutional grounds, and may I be allowed to con- 
tinue then. I will go into the next reason why I cannot answer this 
question. 

Mr. ScHEEER. Maybe it is because you aren't answering the ques- 
tion that you are going to lose your job. Is that the reason^ Because 
you are invoking the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Decker. May I be allowed to continue, Mr. Chairman, without 
interruption? 

Mr. Scherer. You said you were losing your job because you were 
appearing before this committee. 

Mr. Decker. Mr. Chairman, may I be allowed to answer? 

Mr. Moulder. You are* entitled to decline to ansAver or claim the 
privilege under the Constitution in refusing to answer. 

Mr. Decker. That is what I am trying to do, if this gentleman on 
my right will allow me. 

Mr. Moulder. It is a very brief procedure for you to say that you 
are. 

Mr. Doyle. I would suggest to the witness that, instead of reading 
the prepared speech you have on those 12 or 15 cards vviiich you hold 
in your hand, why don't 3'ou plead your constitutional privilege. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. We will respect that and you respect it, and thank God 
that is the Constitution of the United States. But we do not have time 
for you to make a speech before this committee. Give your reasons. 
We respect them and honor them, and that is your privilege. 

Mr. Decker. Thank you very much, Mr. Doyle. However, I am not 
making a speech really. These are a few notes I am using to refresh 
my memory. 

Mr. Doyle. The 12 or 15 cards which you have in your hand are 
more than just a few notes. It is a prepared antagonistic speech 
against the function of the committee. And that is not your consti- 
tutional reason. 

Mr. Decker. I am not even here being antagonistic, actually, even 
though I can't see wliy you are here meddling in our union. However, 
I am trying to be polite. I am trying to answer on the basis of the 
constitutional reasons. 

Mr. Doyle. We haven't mentioned your union. You are the one 
who brought that up now. You are the first one to bring it up this 
afternoon. We haven't mentioned it. That is what you are trying to 
do, to show that Ave are interfering with your union. And we are not, 
and Ave Avon't. 

Maybe it is the operation of the Communist cell within the union 
that is interfering Avith the union. I surmise that it is, from some 
of the testimony this morning. And from some of the testimony Ave 
will have tliis afternoon, I surmise that the thing that is interfering 
with the ordinary processes of your union, the way an American fed- 
eration of musicians should function, is tlie attempt of the Commu- 
nists within your union to control the policy of your union in favor 
of the Communist cell instead of organized labor as it ought to be 
conducted. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3701 

We are not interfering with your union. We are going to interfere 
with communism wherever it is. You might just as well know that. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. JNIouLDER. There is something that preys upon me heavily. You 
say you are about to lose your position of employment as a result of 
your appearance before this committee. Are you about to lose your 
position of employment because you are a Communist, which your 
employer did not know before you were subpenaed to appear before 
this committee? Is that the reason? 

Mr. Decker. There is a question that has been asked me, and I am 
trying to answer it. I am in the process of answering this original 
question. May I be allowed to continue on the original question, and 
if you would please restate it to me. 

Mr. Moulder. Just a moment, please. 

Will you suspend ? 

(The committee confers.) 

Mr. Moulder. All right, proceed. 

Now, sliall we, in order to clear tlie record, go back to the original 
question propounded to you by Mr. Tavenner. That is wliethei" or not 
you were a member of the Communist Party at the time he referred to 
in tlie testimony; is that it, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Decker, you testified that prior to your going 
to New Haven you were engaged in various occupations here in the 
city of Los Angeles, and I asked you whether or not one of them was 
work in the Communist Party. So far you have declined to answer. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Yes ; I have declined to answer, and I have been in the 
process of giving the grounds for my declination. 

I would like to further decline to answer that question, if I may 
continue, on the basis of the first amendment which states, in terms 
of associations, freedom of speech, freedom of the press. 1 believe one 
of the important associations — and I believe this is one of the reasons, 
again, why I am here — is the right of association 

Mr. Moulder. Very well, you decline to answer on the basis of 
the 

Mr. Decker. On the first amendment. 

Mr. Moulder. All right, that is understood. We all know what the 
first amendment stands for, and it speaks for itself. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. There are further reasons which I would like to be 
allowed to finish, if I may. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I want to indicate that I will object 
to any extraneous matter, and ask that it be stricken from the record. 
By that I mean anything not in the nature of a constitutional reason 
for declining to answer the question. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. That objection will be sustained unless there is op- 
position on the part of any other member of the committee. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Do you wish me to proceed on the reasons for my re- 
fusing to answer the question? 

Mr. Moulder. You have covered the first amendment. Let's pro- 
ceed from there without a discussion. We don't want to go into a 



3702 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

detailed explanation of what your interpretation or understanding 
of the first amendment is. It speaks for itself. And our courts will 
construe the meaning of the first amendment. You claimed the first 
amendment. Proceed from there. 

Mr. Decker. Well, I am claiming the first amendment in its very 
specific and implicit statements contained within it which pertain to 
freedom of speech, press, and association. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes ; it speaks for itself. 

Mr. Decker. And one of the associations is that of the association 
to work 

Mr. Jackson, I ask that this be stricken from the record. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to refrain from making a 
speech and comments concerning the first amendment. As I say, it 
speaks for itself as your reason and cause for declining to answer the 
the question. 

Mr. Decker. I, therefore, would further decline on the grounds ot 
the fourth amendment, which is the right of people to be secure in their 
homes, persons, papers, effects, and so forth, 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. 

Mr. Decker. In this relation, I feel by being here 

Mr, Jackson. I ask that any additional conversation on the point 
of the fourth amendment be stricken from the record. 

Mr. Decker. This has to do with privacy. My name has been 
splattered all over the front page. My pictures will be in the front 
pages. This is being denied privacy, sir. This is why I feel I can 
use this amendment, 

Mr, Jackson, You are entitled to use the amendment. No one is 
questioning your right to. 

Mr. Decker. Thank you. 

Mr. Jackson. We are simply saying that there is no necessity for 
making a speech after having claimed the provision. 

I ask the reporter be instructed to strike out all after the claim 
of the fourth amendment. 

Mr. Moulder. The record should speak for itself in that regard. 
However, conducting yourself as a witness as you are, it is our duty to 
advise and inform you for your own protection, that as a result of 
your conduct in refusing to answer, by giving argumentative inter- 
pretations which you may have in construing the Constitution, you 
might be guilty of contempt. 

Therefore, you are directed to answer the question without going 
into great detail and argument, haranguing about what you believe 
the amendment to the Constitution stands for. Your mere reference 
to them in declining to answer is sufficient. 

Mr. Decker. I am trying to answer them to the best of my ability, 
sir. I really am. I am one of these talkative guys. 

Mr. ScHERER. All except when it comes to telling us whether or not 
you are a Commvmist. Then you are not talkative. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. As I understand, you decline to answer, claiming 
the protection of the first amendment and the fourth amendment. 

Are there any other amendments to the Constitution which you 
intend to claim ? 

Mr. Decker. Yes ; there are. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3703 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker, I would further like to decline to answer this ques- 
tion on the basis of the sixth amendment, which, again, I would 
care to mention the fact of having the right to have an impartial 
jury, to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be 
confronted by witnesses against me. 

And, again, if I may, I would like to quote the recent Supreme 
Court decision 

Mr. Moulder. May I say to you that you are not being charged with 
anything before this committee. You are being called here as 
an American citizen to give this committee any information that you 
may have concerning communistic activities which the Supreme Court, 
the law of our land, has declared to be a subversive activity and a 
conspiracy to overthrow our Government, the kind of goverimient we 
]iow enjoy in this country. 

You are not charged with anything. We are not accusing you of 
violating the law or committing any crime. We are merely trying 
to get information concerning communistic and subversive activities. 
But you seem to be hesitant, or at least completely contrary, to the 
idea of giving any such information if you hav^ any. 

(The witness confers witli his counsel.) 

Mr. SciiERER. I submit he has had time enough to answer the ques- 
tion. I suggest we pass to the next question, 

Mr. Decker. Are you withdrawing the question, sir ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Decker. Otherwise, I am in the process of answering it, and 
I will do so. 

Mr. Moulder. You took the first amendment, fourth, and then you 
skipped to the sixth. You are not claiming the fifth? 

Mr. Decker. I don't believe 1 finished my declination. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. 

Mr. Decker, I have tlie privilege of doing so under your rules. 

Mr. Moulder. We don't want to deprive you of the right to claim 
the protection of the provisions of the Constitution or any amendment 
you wish to. Proceed. 

Mr, Decker. I realize, I don't want to take any more of your time 
than 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Sciierer. This is a studied plan to delay the work of this com- 
mittee. It is obvious since we started this morniiig. 

Mr. Moulder. You claim the first, fourth, and sixth amendments 
as I understand it. 

Mr. Decker. That is so. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. With the assistance of the law^^ers who are appearing ? 

Mr. VoGEL. May I say I think we have a right to advise our witness 
as we see fit. 

I think that remark is entirely uncalled for, Mr, Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. That is correct. The witness has a right to confer, 
to be represented by and to confer with counsel. 

Mr. VoGEL. I think Mr. Scherer is entirely out of place making any 
comment regarding any of the attorneys present. I think everybody 
is entitled to be represented by counsel. 



3704 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

If Mr. Scherer doesn't know, we know it. 

Mr. Scherer. I repeat what I said. I think it is a studied plan 

Mr. Moulder. Let's proceed. 

What other provisions do you wish to claim? 

Proceed with your reasons for declining to answer, by briefly stat- 
ing the provisions of the Constitution without giving us a big opinion 
on it. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Finally, I refuse, I decline to answer this question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment which deals with capital punish- 
ment, or grand jury rather for capital offenses, and not being com- 
pelled to be a witness against oneself in criminal cases — which, by the 
may, I cannot see is the issue here at all — nor can the citizen be 
deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. 

Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt you there to ask you this: 

In the event you were granted immunity and protected from crimi- 
nal prosecution or incriminating yourself in any way whatsoever by 
answering the questions that are propounded to you; would you 
do so? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. It would seem to me, sir, that this is an "iffy" ques- 
tion which I would refuse to answer in the same way, as it follows 
logically I am refusing to answer the question that you asked me 
previously. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you now a member of the Communits Party ? 

Mr. Decker. I would have to decline to answer that question 

Mr. Jackson. You would not have to. Do you? 

Mr. Decker. I do decline to answer that question for the following 
reasons: on the grounds of the fifth amendment which guar- 
antees me due process, not to be deprived of life, liberty, or property, 
and, in this connection, I feel comes not just liberty but there is also 
financial and economic liberty, the liberty of being able to eat and 
not be blacklisted. 

Mr. Moulder. That is sufficient. 

Any further questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think, for the benefit of the record, 
I should call attention to the fact that the witness, in quoting the 
Quinn case, a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States, did 
not make it plain that that case did not involve at all any sphere of 
examination of a witness by this committee. 

What that case involved was the question of whether or not it was 
properly understood by the witness that he was being directed to 
answer. 

And I mention that for the record because it has been persistently 
claimed in certain sources that have been attacking this committee in 
exactly the same language used by this witness. 

Mr. Decker. Is there a question to be directed at me, sir, at this 
point? I sort of lost track. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I, right at this point, supplement 
what our distinguished legal counsel has said. 

I have the opinion of Thomas Quinn v. U. S. of America^ May 23, 
1955, before me. And the witness has read just a few sentences in 
paragraph 1, page 5. He did not read all of it, and I want to read 



COlVOrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3705 

that part of the same paragraph from which the witness only took 
a few sentences to serve his needs : 

There can be no doubt as to the power of Congress, by itself or through its 
committees, to investigate matters and conditions relating to contemplated legis- 
lation. This power, deeply rooted in American and English institutions, is indeed 
co-extensive with the power to legislate. Without the power to investigate — 
including, of course, the authority to compel testimony, either through its proc- 
esses or through judicial trial — Congress could be seriously handicapped in its 
efforts to exercise its constitutional function wisely and effectively. 

At that point, Mr. Chairman, too, I think it is timely to call atten- 
tion to the fact that there have been certain full-page advertisements 
by a certain committee, and in all the advertisements it was stated that 
this decision, Quinn v. U. S. of America^ was a unanimous decision. 

That statement is absolutely false, and I believe it was known to be 
false by these people who are circulating this bunkum about this 
committee. 

The fact is that there were two dissents from this decision. And 
yet in all of the testimony, in all of the circulars — and I have here a 
copy of a certain paper published April 12 — it says : 

This usurpation of power by the committee recently was denounced by the 
United States Supreme Court in a unanimous decision. 

It was not unanimous. It was, in my judgment, a deliberate, false, 
and untrue statement for the purpose of prejudicing patriotic Ameri- 
can citizens against a committee of the United States Congress. 

I have here a tele<^ram, dated March 20, 1956, from a Mr. Rev. A. 
Heist, chairman, Citizens Committee To Preserve x4.merican Freedoms, 
4274 Beverly Boulevard, Los Angeles, the committee publishing 
this false and untrue statement about the decision of the Supreme 
Court. And this telegram to me reads : 

In overruling the House Un-American Activities Committee citation of con- 
tempt against Quinn, the United States Supreme Court, in vmanimous decision, 
handed down by Chief Justice Warren — " 

And again I want to say that Reverend Heist and his committee are 
deliberately misrepresenting the decision of the United States Su- 
preme Court. I felt it important that all those within hearing of my 
voice should know what the truth is. We have the decision right 
here, the full decision. 

The advertisements and the propaganda against the committee 
which have been circulated by Reverend Heist and his alleged commit- 
tee to preserve American freedoms is a bunch of bunkum, and most of 
it is untrue and unfounded, especially with reference to this Supreme 
Court decision which was quoted by this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavennek. INIr. Decker, were you counseled by the Communist 
Party or any member of the Commimist Party to engage in a program 
of advancing the interests of the Independent Progressive Party in 
1948? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I will refuse to answer this question on the grounds 
previousl}' given, on the grounds of the first, fifth, fourth, ninth, and 
tenth amendments, which I never got to, by the way, only because I 
was interrupted so many times. 

Mr. Jackson. You got to it in time. 



3706 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF',, AREA 

Mr. Tavennei?. We will include it by reference. 

Mr. Decker. Fine. 

That still gives us, the people, powers that you gentlemen don't have. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Were you aware of the plan by the Communist 
Party to promote the interests of the Independent Progressive Party 
by circulating petitions to put it on the ballot in California in 1948 ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker, I thought I just answered this question, which I 
further, again, refuse to answer for the same reasons, on the basis of 
the first, fifth, ninth, tenth, and sixth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of a campaign by the Communist 
Party to secure the registration of its members as members of the 
Independent Progressive Party? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. Sir, this seems to be variations on the same theme. I 
ihought I just answered this question. And, again, I would refuse 
to answer the question for the reasons previously given. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an affidavit of 
registration of a person by the name of Rubin Decker, sworn to on the 
2od day of February 1948, stating that that person intends to affiliate 
in the ensuing primary election with the Independent Progressive 
Party of California. Will you examine it, please, and state whether 
or not that is your affidavit? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. The document is marked for identification only as 
"Decker Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Decker. I might ask, Mr. Counsel, had you intended to investi- 
gate the Democratic Party, too, since McCarthy said it liad 20 years 
of treason behind it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly we might know more about that if you 
would tell us what you know about the Independent Progressive 
Party. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I refuse to answer this question on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendments, and those previously given. 

Mr, Tavenner. I offer the document in evidence, and ask that it be 
marked "Decker Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

(This.exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 1, p. 3664, and will 
not be reproduced in the printed record ; it is on file in the committee's 
records. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign an affidavit of registration in the 
Independent Progressive Party under sworn statement of February 
28,1952? 

I hand you a photostatic copy of that document which is marked 
for identification only as "Decker Exhibit No. 2." 

(Tlie witness confers with his counsel, and examines document.) 

Mr. Decker. I would refuse to answer this question also on the 
basis of the first or fifth with the question, in return, as to why it is 
necessary to be investigating anybody's registration in any nature, 
manner, or form. 

By what riglit are you here to investigate an3^body's personal ■ 

Mr. Tavenner. I will try to make that clear to yoii. 

Mr. Decker. If you would. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3707 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has received testimony at various 
places in the State of California as to the part the Commmiist Party 
was playing in those areas in the formation of the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party. The committee has heard evidence as to how the 
Communist Party in certain places has endeavored to function 
through the Independent Progressive Party as one of the largest mass 
organizations of the Communist Party that has ever been formed 
in this country. 

You can be of material assistance to this committee if you would 
give any facts within your knowledge relating to the same type of 
activities in this respect. 

So I will call upon you to do it. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. May I supplement our counsel's fine statement for the 
benefit of the witness on that point because I am sure Mr. Decker was 
in the hearing room this morning. I am sure I saw him here when 
Mr. Waddilove was testifying. I am sure Mr. Decker heard Mr. 
Waddilove answer when I asked him whether or not the IPP was 
formed as a front of the Communist Party in California, in this way — 
and I am sure Mr, Decker heard him say, "In actuality, that is what 
it was." 

Now that is one reason we are asking you about your activities in 
connection with the formation of the IPP in California, because not 
only Waddilove, but you heard me state this morning we had former 
top IPP leaders and former top Communist leaders in California 
testify that the IPP did become a Communist-front party in Cali- 
fornia. That is why we are asking you as to your registration. We 
believe you know something about that. 

Mr. Moulder. The remarks made by the witness Avill be stricken 
from the record. 

(Accordingly, the remarks by the witness were stricken from the 
record.) 

Mr. Sciierer. I have one question. Was anything that Mr. Waddi- 
love said untrue ? 

Mr. Decker. I refuse to answer that question on tlie basis of the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Sciierer. Here you attack a previous witness as bitterly as you 
have, and then, when you are given the opj)ortunity to say whether any 
of his testimony is untrue, you hesitate and refuse to do so. 

Mr. Dpxker. I didn't attack him. I feel sorry for him. 

Mr. Sciierer. You didn't attack him ? 

Mr. Decker. I think everybody else in this room did, too. 

Mr. Sciierer. I am asking you now, Is anything that witness said 
this morning under oath untrue ? Let's hear your answer. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. If so, what ? 

Mr. Sciierer. And if so, what did he say that was untrue ? 

And if you say that he perjured himself in any way, I am going to 
have his testimony and your testimony referred to the Department 
of Justice and see who is perjuring himself. 

You now have your opportunity to deny or to say whether this 
witness tliat you attacked so bitterly, who was under oath the same as 
you, told the committe anything that was untrue. 



3708 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Decker. I would have to refuse to answer that question on 
the basis of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. I thought you would. 

Mr. Decker. And while I am doing so I would like you to know, 
Mr. Scherer, you are from my home State, aren't you ? I would also 
like to remind you tliat only last month the Supreme Court liad this 
to say about the practice of imputing a sinister meaning to anybody 
who exercises his constitutional privileges under the fifth 

Mr. Scherer. I am not imputing a sinister means. You have 
attacked this witness, and I am giving you your opportunity now 

Mr. Decker. I tolcl you I was sorry for him and did not attack him. 

Mr. Scherer (continuing). Of saying whether or not he said 
anything that was untrue. 

Mr. Decker. Again I would refuse to answer this question. 

Mr, Scherer. Now we know which witness to believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce in evidence document marked 
"Decker Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

(This exhibit is similar to Wacldilove exhibit No. 2, p. 3665, and will 
not be reproduced in the printed record ; it is on file in the committee's 
records.) 

Mr. Ta^tsnner. I hand the witness a third document marked for 
identification only as "Decker Exhibit No. 3," and ask him to tell the 
committee what it is. 

(The witness and his counsel examine document.) 

Mr. Decker. I would have to refuse to answer this question for the 
reasons previously given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it an Independent Progressive Party petition 
"which you circulated and at the bottom of which you signed an affidavit 
that you did circulate it, the date of the affidavit being January 2, 
1948? 

]\Ir. Decker. I would refuse to answer that question also on the basis 
of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence, the document marked 
"Decker Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 3, p. 3667, and will 
not be reproduced in the printed record ; it is on file in the committee's 
records. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of various businesses that you were in 
prior to 1048. Have you been in any business other than that of 
practicing your profession as a musician since 1948? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I wonder if you would mind restating the question. 
I don't know whether you meant before 1948 or after 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. I said since 1948. 

Mr. Decker. Since 1948. 

In 1951 I returned to Los Angeles with a master's degree in music, 
and I went to work cleaning windows and carrying lumber and dig- 
ging ditches. 

I think this you gentlemen should know, too. Perhaps while you 
are here in Los Angeles you can gather some infoj'mation that may 
help the musicians' unemployment problem which constitutes about 
80 percent of the membership. 



COIMMTJNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3709 

Mr. TA\T:N]srER. Did you also engage in teaching music? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I would have to refuse to answer that on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you refuse to answer? 

Mr. Decker. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you engage in teaching music? You had your 
master's degree and then you came home here and began handling 
lumber. You became a part-time teacher of music, when you came 
home in 1951? If so, can you possibly be incriminated from teach- 
ing music? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. DoTLE. What is there about teaching music that would incrimi- 
nate you if you told the truth ? 

Mr. Decker. If you will give me the reason why you want to know, 
or have any evidence to show I did something that I didn't do 

Mr. Doyle. We don't claim teaching music incriminates you. We 
are surprised that you are pleading the amendment. What are you 
ashamed of in teaching music? What is criminal about that? 

Mr. Decker. I have nothing to be ashamed of in anything that I 
have ever done at any time in my life, Mr. Doyle. I have had a pretty 
proud record, and I have worked hard for what I have learned. 

Mr. Jackson. Why don't you talk about your record ? Why don't 
you talk about your record in the Communist Party if you are proud 
of it? You have an opportunity. You have a forum here to do it. 
If you are so blasted proud of your record, why don't you talk about it? 

Mr. Decker. Let me tell you, Mr. Jackson, any time you want to get 
out of this committee and where I am not under oath here, or not here 
at your command, and on the outside, I will be very happy to discuss 
anything. 

i\Ir. Jackson. I wouldn't believe anything you said not under oath. 

JSIr. Moulder. Let us proceed. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Decker. I am refusing to answer that question on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. SciiERER. May I pose this question, Mr. Chairman: This 
witness has just said, on two different occasions in the last few minutes, 
that he has done nothing that is wrong during his whole career. 

How can he invoke the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Decker. It seems to me that I have a quote here also from a 
Supreme Court decision 

Mr. Doyle. To what decision do you refer? 

Mr. Decker. That the privilege, sir, is to protect the innocent who 
otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances. 

Being here is, let me tell you, an ambiguous circumstance. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you innocent of having been ensnared by ambigu- 
ous circumstances? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Jackson. I ask that the witness be excused, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. The question was asked you, whether or not you 
engaged in the teaching vocation or profession. Do you decline to 
answer it? 

Mr. Decker. Yes: I do. 



3710 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Moulder. I will ask you this question : 

Was your reason for declining to answer that question based upon 
the fact that you were teaching Communist policy or teaching in a 
Communist class or teaching Communist philosoj)hy ? 

Mr. Doyle. I understood he was teaching music. 

Mr. Decker. I will answer this one. 

Mr. Moulder. You can answer that and clear yourself of any in- 
ference as a result of your refusal to answer the other questions. 

Mr. Decker. I refuse to answer on the basis of the first or fifth 
amendment. However, I wish that we here could all take a look at that 
French horn on this article that you are talking about, Mr. Doyle, 
and showing all of us peering into the French horn looking for sub- 
versive notes and things. It is sort of silly to me, you know\ I play 
the viola. I am a very good one. 

Mr. Doyle. You can ridicule it if you want, but I think it is serious 
when a bunch of American musicians have in their membership a 
group of known Communists. And one of them was here this morn- 
ing and testified that he had been a Communist. He didn't claim that 
investigating communism among musicians would hurt music. And 
you are trying to ridicule it. It is not a joking matter, I want to 
assure you, to find American musicians hiding behind music to dis- 
tribute Communist bunkum. 

Mr. Decker. I don't think it is funny either. I think it is very seri- 
ous, too, Mr. Doyle. 

I would suggest maybe you ought to find out about this attack on 
Nat King Cole in the South recently if you are so interested in that. 

Mr. Doyle. You see, it happens to be that some of us are. 

Mr. Moulder. I would make a statement in that respect, that that 
is probably communistically inspired. 

Mr. Decker. Not at all. I am asking it as an equally good Ameri- 
can, as good as Mr. Jackson here. 

Mr. Jackson. .lust a minute on that note. 

That is going to be one of the themes running through the testimony 
of all of these witnesses. "Wliy don't you go to Mississippi to investi- 
gate an assault? Why don't you investigate this attack or that 
attack?" 

This committee is not established for the purposes of law enforce- 
ment in crimes of violence. Those matters are within the jurisdiction 
of police departments. State officials, and other agencies constituted. 

We have one specific charge laid upon this committee. It is a charge 
which, if you will take the trouble to read Public Law 601, you will 
understand better than you do now. 

So far as this plaint, and cry, "Why don't you go out and find some- 
body who knocked somebody else over the head" is concerned it is 
fallacious. 

Mr. Moulder. Let's proceed as rapidly as possible. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr, Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Questions, ^Ir. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. ScHERER. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. You are excused as a witness. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3711 

Mr. Decker. Thank j^ou very much. You have been very kind. 

Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Joe Pass. 

Mr. Moulder. Is this Mr. Joe Pass ? 

Mr. Pass. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Would you hold up your right hand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you, God ? 

Mr. Pass. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF JOE PASS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, FRANK S. 

PESTANA 

Mr. Moulder. Before proceeding, I wish to announce, as I did 
earlier this morning in the committee, that all members of the com- 
mittee wish to conduct our hearings as fairly as possible and with all 
fairness to the witness and everyone present at the hearings. But it 
will be necessary on the next occasion of an outbreak or demonstration 
to have the officers clear from the room those persons who are partici- 
pating in such demonstrations. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Pass. My name is Joe Pass. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name. 

Mr. Pass. P-a-s-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel. 

Would counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Pestana. Frank Pestana, P-e-s-t-a-n-a. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Pass ? 

Mr. Pass. Chicago, 111., 1915. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in the city of Los Angeles? 

Mr. Pass. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided there? 

Mr. Pass. Since 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you tell the committee briefly what your 
educational training has been. 

Mr. Pass. I attended grade school and high school in Chicago, 111. 
I attended Central YMCA Junior College and Herschel Junior Col- 
lege in Chicago approximately 1 year. I attended the University of 
Southern California for approximately II/2 years, and attended law 
school at the University of San Francisco for a year, and approxi- 
mately another year down here in Southwestern University. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What was the date that you attended the university 
here ? 

Mr. Pass. 1948 I attended the University of Southern California. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession ? 

Mr. Pass. My profession is that of a musician. I have been 
a professional musician off and on for 20 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you practicing your profession in this general 
area, the area of Los Angeles, in 1947 and 1948 ? 

Mr. Pass. To a limited extent. 



3712 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware during that period of time, 1947 
and 1948, of the existence of an organized group of the Communist 
Party composed entirely or principally of persons engaged in the 
musicians' profession? 

Mr. Pass. It is my considered opinion that you are really 
not after Communists or communism. You are after conformity, and 
I refuse to cooperate with this committee to any extent to further what 
I consider a conspiracy against the American people. 

The fact that fhis committee has been traipsing around the country 
for a number of years and blacklisting various groups and organiza- 
tions, trying to press conformity with their own narrow point of 
view — I am not going to 

Mr. Moulder. As presiding officer and chairman, I cannot permit 
you to go into a lengthy condemnation of this committee. The people 
of the United States elected the Members of the Congress, and the 
Congress has duly established this committee to conduct these hear- 
ings and investigate. 

Your statements are not at all in response to the question, and you 
are directed to respond to the question. 

Mr. Pass. I shall decline to answer that question on the following 
grounds, and I would like to have leave to answer this question fully 
in my own way. I will try not to be argumentative. 

Mr. Moulder. If you are going to answer the question, yes; you 
may. You can make any comment or discussion you wish. 

Mr. Pass. I would like to correct that I am going to decline to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. You may give your reasons for declining. 

Mr. Jackson. His constitutional reasons for declining. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. May I suggest that they should be confined to legal 
grounds and not to reasons or excuses. 

Mr. Pass. I am not going to resort to any excuses. I don't feel I 
have to resort to any excuses before this committee because my record 
as an American is, I think, a fine one. 

Mr. Moulder. The point is, do you want to use your personal feel- 
ings and opinions of the committee as a basis or reason for declining 
to answer ? Or do you want to use, as a basis, a legal reason ? 

Mr. Pass. It is very difficult to separate them. However, I will try 
to keep as close to legal reasons as possible. 

Now, to begin with, I feel that this committee is created 

Mr. Moulder. Wait a minute. 

We cannot tolerate that. What you feel about the committee has 
nothing whatsoever to do with your response to the question. Either 
decline to answer or answer the question. 

Mr. Pass. I am going to answer on the basis of the first amendment. 
And I will go further 

Mr. Moulder. Are you going to answer the question ? 

Mr. Pass. I am going to decline to answer in my own way on the 
basis of the first amendment 

Mr. Moulder. You don't have to do it in your own way. Just 
simply decline. 

Mr. Pass. I am going to decline to answer because I feel 

I beg your pardon. 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3713 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pass. I am going to give you my reasons to answer. These are 
my reasons, legal reasons, and I am going to have to insist on giving 
my reasons my own way. 

Mr. Jackson. We are going to have to insist that 

Mr. Pass. This committee 

Mr. Moulder. Do it in a legal way and conform with the laws of 
our land. 

Mr. Pass (continuing). Blacklisting people, and they result in the 
cancellation, for example, of the Symphony of the Air tour to Europe. 
And this invasion of the first amendment 

Mr. Moulder. Just a minute. 

What was the question ? 

Mr. Pass. This is an invasion of the first amendment 

Mr. Moulder. What was the question asked him? 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked the witness if during the period of 1947 
and 1948 he had knowledge of the existence of an organized group 
of the Communist Party composed principally of members of the 
musicians' profession. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you have such knowledge or not ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pass. I will further decline to answer this question on the 
following grounds : 

Mr. Moulder. We do not have enough time to listen to all of your 
grounds. If you are not going to 

Mr. Pass. If you don't have enough time you can call off the hear- 
ings right now. 

You came 2,000 miles to waste the taxpayers' money and you can 
listen to me for another 5 or 10 minutes. 

Mr. Moulder. We won't tolerate your stalling. 

Mr. Jackson. I am going to stress, if he makes a speech 

Mr. Pass. You are making a speech, too. 

Mr. Jackson. I am going to ask that it be stricken from the record. 

Mr. Pass. I resent that. You are making speeches, too. 

Mr. Jackson. The time I have taken all day compared to your last 
5 minutes is infinitesimal. 

Mr. Pass. You are not on the stand. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you decline? And is the basis for your declining 
to answer the first and fifth amendments ? 

Mr. Pass. I am giving my reasons. I will give them my own way. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you claim the first and fifth amendments? 

Mr. Pass. I will claim my own amendments in the order I choose. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you claim any provision of the Constitution for 
declining to answer? 

Mr. Pass. I will answer in my own way. 

Mr. Moulder. Let me ask you this question : 

Do you claim any provision of the Constitution ? 

Mr. Pass. I will not have you tell me how to claim my privileges. 

Mr. Moulder. I am asking you. Are you claiming any privileges of 
the Constitution ? 

Mr. Pass. I am going to claim the privilege of the Constitution, 
and not be threatened or prompted by the committee in telling me. 



3714 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. No one is telling you. We are asking you to please 
get to your constitutional reasons for declining to answer the questions. 

Mr. Pass. That is exactly what I am doing, Mr. Jackson. If you 
will stop talking, I will give them. 

Mr. Jacksox. If you will start talking I will stop. 

Mr. Pass. I will start. 

Mr. Jackson. Start now. 

Mr. Pass. On the first amendment 

Mr. Moulder. Do you use the first amendment ? 

Mr. Pass. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. Any other reasons ? 

Mr. Pass. I am going to tell you my reasons under the first amend- 
ment because the first amendment allows freedom of association, and 
freedom 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. The first amendment speaks for itself. We under- 
stand that. 

You decline to answer behind the protection, or for the reason of 
the protection of the first amendment. 

Mr. Pass. My answer is I am going to decline to answer on the basis 
of the ninth and tenth amendments, which provides that Congress 

Mr. Moulder. We know what the ninth and tenth amendments 
provide. We think the courts of our country loiow what they provide. 

Mr. Pass. If you know what it was, I wish you would stand on it 
and meet the the letter and spirit of the ninth and tenth amendments. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pass. I would like to get to my reasons under the first amend- 
ment because obviously this committee doesn't understand the perti- 
nent 

Mr. Jackson. I ask that all remarks of the witness, comments of 
the witness following his declaration of the first amendment be stricken 
from the record. 

Mr. Moulder. You claim the first, ninth and tenth amendments, as 
I understand, for declining to answer. 

Mr. Jackson. All of them are constitutional grounds. He has 
every right to take them. He has no right to make a speech haranguing 
the committee. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed to the next question, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, if he has relied solely on the first 
amendment 

Mr. Pass. You feel the committee has a right to make a speech. 

Mr. Tavenner. If he has relied solely on the first and tenth amend- 
ments 

Mr. Pass. I have not relied solely on tlicm. I am stating my 
grounds. I am trying to state my grounds in my own way. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will have to ask that the chairman direct the wit- 
ness to answer because he has not stated any legally sufficient grounds 
for refusing to answer. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

Mr. Pass. May I continue to make my grounds for declining to 
answer this question ? 

Mr. Scherer. If the Chair please, this witness is following a de- 
liberate plan, with the assistance of his counsel here 

Mr. Pass. Very able counsel. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3715 

Mr. Pestana. I object to the remarks about counsel. 

Mr. ScHERER. With assistance of counsel 

Mr. Pestana. The Congressman knows counsel has a right to ad- 
vise with his client. 

Mr. ScHERER. To deliberately defy 

Wait a minute. I'm talking. 

Mr. Pestana. I am appalled at the ignorance of the Congressman 
in trying to interfere with as basic a right as we have here involved. 

Mr. Jackson. It is quite apparent that counsel is prompting the 
witness in words as to what his exact answer is to be. 

Mr. ScHERER. I heard counsel. I can't help hearing him. 

You have deliberately told this witness what to say. 

Mr. Pass. What is wrong with that? Do you mean to say I can't 
get advice from my counsel ? 

Mr. Jackson. Advice ; not the parroted words of your counsel. Ad- 
vice as to your constitutional rights. 

Mr. Pass. I haven't used any words 

Mr. ScHERER. Counsel deliberately instructed the witness to defy 
the ruling of the Chair, and has put words in his mouth. 

Mr. Pestana. I deny that, Mr. Congressman. And I think your in- 
terference with the privilege of attorney and client is dastardly and 
disgraceful on our country. If you heard something you should have 
informed counsel to speak a little lower so that that right would be 
preserved. 

Mr. Moulder. I ask the officer in charge keep a very careful check 
on the people who are demonstrating. 

Mr. Scherer. I am not very proud of some of the members of the 
bar at times. 

Mr. Pestana. I am. That is very obvious. 

Mr. Moulder. We will have counsel removed from the hearing 
room if you proceed to argue with members of the committee. 

Mr, Pestana. I don't wish to argue. 

Mr. Moulder. I myself want to be very fair and very tolerant and 
very considerate, and have always been on this committee. I don't 
wish to tolerate stalling and haranguing on the part of the witness 
or on the part of his counsel. You have a riglit to confer with your 
client. You have a right to advise him as to his answers. There is 
no dispute about that. 

Let's proceed with the hearing. 

Mr. Pestana. May I respectfully suggest that nine-tenths of the 
time that has been consumed in this hearing has been taken up by the 
members of this committee, not including yourself, at least as to my 
client. 

Mr. Moulder. If you do not cease immediately you will have to be 
removed from the hearing room. 

Mr. Pestana. I wanted to make that clear. 

Mr. Moulder. We will proceed with the hearing of this witness 
without benefit of counsel. He will find counsel that will not conduct 
himself as you are. 

Mr. Doyle. May I just read from our rules so we will thoroughly 
understand what the area of counsel is. I read from rule 7 : 

The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing, and while the 
witness is testifying, shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal rights. 
Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the committee, 
but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client. 

77436— 56— pt. 7 5 



3716 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

And that does not include the putting of words into the mouth of the 
witness. 

Mr. Moulder. We do not know whether he is putting words in the 
mouth of the witness or not. I haven't ascertained that. I am not 
arguing with you about that. You have a right to confer with your 
client and consult with him on what you see as confidential between 
you. I am not accusing you of putting words in the mouth of the 
witness. 

But let us get along with this hearing. 

Mr. Pass. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Pestana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I should ask the witness whether he relies 
on the fifth amendment as one of his grounds for refusal to answer 
the question I asked him. He can answer that question "yes" or "no." 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pass. Pursuant to my previous thoughts, I would like to give 
my answer in my own way according to how I feel. Now I am going 
to continue to give my reasons for 

Mr. Tavenner. This is not a question of how the witness feels. 

Mr. Moulder. That is not responsive to the question. 

Mr. Pass. What was the question ? 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question, and 
we would advise you this, for your own protection 

Mr. Pass. I realize that. 

Mr. Moui,der. That you are endangering yourself of being in con- 
tempt whether you like the proceedings conducted by the committee 
or whether you approve the committee's actions or investigations or 
not. 

Therefore, for your own protection and benefit, it is our duty to 
advise you that there is a possible danger that by your refusal to 
answer the question in a sensible and fair way, you might be guilty 
of contempt. 

And you are further advised that by going into a lengthy harangue 
and argument with members of the committee concerning your opin- 
ion of this committee, reasons which are in no way connected with 
the question asked you, might make you guilty of contempt. 

Therefore, give a direct answer to the question or directly refuse 
to answer, as you please, by claiming the privileges of the Constitu- 
tion. 

Mr. Pass. I feel I have a right to decline to answer in my own way. 

Mr. Jackson. No, you have no right to decline to answer in your 
own way. 

Mr. Pass. To give any constitutional and legal gromids in my own 
way. 

Mr. Tavenner. Every opportmiity has been given to this witness to 
claim the privilege 

Mr. Pass. Would you please repeat the question? 

Mr. TA\TiNNER. If he desires to do so. He has not done so. I am not 
going to ask him any further questions. 

Mr. Pass. Would you please repeat the question? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. He has been given 
every reasonable opportunity a man could be given. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3717 

Mr. ScHERER. I move the witness be ordered to leave the witness 
stand. 

Mr. Pass. I wish to state my grounds. I am relying on the fifth 
amendment, and the reason 

Mr. Jacksox. I ask that the witness be excused. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Pass. There is no implication of guilt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer into evidence, and 
have marked as "Pass Exhibit No. 1," an affidavit of registration bear- 
ing date of the 27th day of February 1948, in the name of Joseph Pass, 
which expresses an intention to affiliate with the Independent Progres- 
sive Party of California. 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 1, p. 3664, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the 
committee's records. ) 

Mr. Mout.der. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. I also desire to offer in evidence a second affidavit 
of registration bearing date of April 20, 1948, of Joseph Pass, in 
which he states his intention to affiliate with the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party of California. I ask that it be marked "Pass Exhibit 
No. 2." 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 2, p. 3665, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the 
committee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. I also offer in evidence a photostatic copy of an 
election petition to put the Independent Progressive Party of Cali- 
fornia on the ballot, at tlie end of which there is an affidavit signed 
by a person named Joseph Pass, bearing date the 3d day of February 
1948. I ask that it be marked "Pass Exhibit No. 3." 

(This exhibit is simihu* to Waddilove exhibit No. 3, p. 3667, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the com- 
mittee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. I also offer in evidence two photostatic copies of 
membership cards in the East Hollywood Branch of the Independent 
Progressive Party, bearing date the 16th day of February 1954, and 
the 11th day of February 1953, respectively and ask that they be 
marked "Pass Exhibits Nos. 4 and 5," respectively, for identification 
purposes only and to be retained in the committee's files. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Now^ may I ask counsel to give a very brief statement of all the 
exhibits admitted in evidence as they relate to the witness who has 
just been excused. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Those exhibits show the participation of this wit- 
ness in the activities which the first witness this morning described as 
having been taken by members of the Communist Party at the in- 
stance of the Communist Party, namely, that of registration in the 
Independent Progressive Party, and the circulation of petitions. 

I want also to make reference to the January 13, 1953, issue of the 
Daily People's World and to a statement that Joe Pass was one of a 
delegation to the city of Washington in the Rosenberg case, which 
was a subject of investigation in Washington within the past year, and 



3718 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

in which this committee sought to determine the Communist Party 
affiliations of many persons active throughout the United States in 
that movement. 

Mr. Jackson, In light of what we have already experienced here 
today and what will certainly transpire again later on in the week, I 
would make the request of the chairman that the clerk of the com- 
mittee be instructed to communicate with the bar of the city of Los 
Angeles, and the bar of the State of California, inviting them to send 
observers to the hearings during the balance of the week- 
Mr. ]\IouLDER. Very well. May I ask is that agreeable with the other 
members of the committee ? 

Mr. ScHERER. I will second the motion, certainly. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, by unanimous request, the invi- 
tation, as moved by Congressman Jackson, is ordered to be extended 
by the clerk of the committee. 

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, a short recess was taken, Eepresentatives Moulder, 
Doyle, Jackson, and Scherer being present.) 

(At the expiration of the recess the committee was reconvened, 
Representatives Moulder and Doyle being present.) 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, will you call your next witness, please. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Samuel Berland, B-e-r-1-a-n-d. 

Mr. Moulder. You are Mr. Berland ? 

Mr. Berland. Yes, sir,. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony which you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Berland. I do. 

(Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. Moulder. It has been suggested by counsel that the witness be 
sworn in again, while a quorum is present. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Mr. Berland. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SAMUEL BERLAND, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

GEANT B. COOPER 

Mr. Tevenner. Will j^ou state your full name, please. 
Mr. Berland. Samuel J. Berland. 
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name? 
Mr. Berland. B-e-r-1-a-n-d. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by 
counsel. 

Will counsel please identify himself for the i-ecord. 

]VIr. Cooper. My name is Grant B. Coojjer, C-o-o-p-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and whore were you born, Mr. Berland? 

Mr. Berland. I was born on August 5, 1911, New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Ix)s Angeles? 

Mr. Berland. I do. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3719 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a resident of Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Berland. Since 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. And had you lived in this area at any time prior to 
1946? 

Mr. Berland. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for- 
mal educational training has been. 

Mr. Berland. High school graduate. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation ? 

Mr. Berland. I am a builder and developer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that another way of saying contractor ? What is 
the distinction between a contractor and a builder ? 

Mr. Beri^nd. I don't have a contractor's license. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by builder and developer? 

Mr. Berland. I^t me say I am associated in the building and land- 
development business. I may associate with people who have con- 
tractors' licenses. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in that business ? 

Mr. Berland. Since 1950. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your em- 
ployment has been in Los Angeles since 1946 when you first arrived 
here? 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer because it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what business were you engaged before 1950 ? 

Mr. Berland. I must decline to answer that again for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was your business prior to 1950 that of a developer 
and builder of real estate ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Berland. Just a minute. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. I decline to answer for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed in 1948 ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you live in 1948? 

Mr. Berland. Same answer. I decline, I respectfully decline to 
answer because that answer may tend to incriminate me. ' 

Mr. Ta\^nner. In 1948 were 3'ou an international representative of 
the United Public Workers of America, CIO ? 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer that question, gen- 
tlemen, because of the same grounds. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. How could it be incriminating to tell this committee 
whether or not you were an international representative of the United 
Public Workers of America at that time ? 

Mr. Berland. Same answer. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer because it may tend 
to incriminate me. 



3720 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Moulder. The reason for directing you to answer is not to 
threaten you, but purely to remind you of the dangers that may be 
involved in connection with contempt proceedings as a result of your 
refusal to answer. 

Mr. Berland. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you reside at 12050 Clover Avenue, Los An- 
geles, in February of 1948 ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Berland. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I move you instruct the witness to 
answer. Certainly the fact where he lived in that year could not 
possibly incriminate him. 

Mr. Moulder, On the request of Mr. Doyle, and without objection 
on the part of any other members of the committee, the witness is so 
directed to answer the question. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, gentlemen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of the existence of an organized 
group of the Communist Party in 1918 known as the Hey wood, H-e-y- 
w-o-o-d. Section, Southern Division, of the Los Angeles County Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were vou a member of the Communist Party in 
1948? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. 

Mr. Ta-v'enner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
since 1950, the time when you say you began work in the builder and 
developer business in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, gentlemen. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1948 were you aware of an effort being made by 
the Communist Party to do organizational work within the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party in California ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a fact, is it not, that you were a member of the 
State Central Committee of the Independent Progressive Party at 
one time? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, sir. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. In the coui;se of the committee's investigation we 
obtained a photostatic copy of a letter bearing date 28th day of July, 
1948, addressed to the Secretary of State of the State of California, 
showing that you had been appointed a delegate from Los Angeles 
County, the 61st Assembly District, to a State convention of the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party in California. Will 3'ou examine it and 
state whether or not you were such a delegate from the Cist Assembly 
District. 

(Document handed to witness and his counsel.) 

Mr. Berland (after examining document). I respectfully decline 
to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce this letter in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Berland Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3721 
Berland Exhibit No. 1 



Hugh Bryson 

James Dougherty 

L. H. McMillen 

A. B. Gooltby 

Miss Elioof Kahn 
Stat* D<'*ct(X 

• iiMONAi emct 

Marpef W. Poulson 
Mrs. Ruth Slade 

C«mp«ign Man«g«« 



organizing committee 



INDEPENDENT 
PROGRESSIVE 

PARTY of California 



426 SO. SMINC STtUT • LOS ANOIICS 
MAdlton 6-4«S3 

HEW ADDRESS ; 

2960 West Eighth Street 
Los Angeles 5, Calif. 
DRexel 5211 



July 28, 19^ 



Secretary of State Jordan 
State Capital 
Eecramento, California 

Dear Sir: 

Enclosed are the credentials for "appotntive" delegates 
frow Los Angeles County. They cover the following Senatorial 
anr> Assembly Districts: 



38th Senatorial District 
iiOth A.D. 
Ust A.D. 
42nd A.D. 
43rd A.D. 
44th A.D. 
47th A.D. 
48th A.D. 
49th A.D. 
53rd A.D. 
54th A.D. 
55th A.D. 
57th A.D. 
58th A.D. 
59th A.D. 
61st A.D. 
62nd A.D. 
64th A.D. 
66th A.D. 
68th A.D. 
7lBt A.D. 



Uerrln H. Witt 
Robert Henry Hynds 
Matthew I. Metlson 
Urs. Vera UacUurray 
Urs. Nancy Reeves 
Mrs. Ruth Slade 
Jerry Gaiter 
Gilbert Laurence 
Urs. Irne U. Shade 
Janes R. Batchelor 
Paul E. Hartz 
Edaond Rosen 
Uaurlce H. Howard 
Joe Steinberg 
Lincoln Uager 
Samuel J . Ijerland 
Charlotte A. Bass (lirs.) 
H\ieh E. Macbeth, Jr. 
Edarard L. Barnes 
Phyllis Uafer (Itrs.) 
Benjaain SilTeraan 



In all other districts in Los Angeles County, there ere 
"nominee* delegates, with the exception of the 12th and 17th 
Congressional Districts. 

Appointaents of members to the State Central Comr.ittee 
by each of the "appointive" delegates to the convention, are 
in the mall to you, under separate cover, bein^ ^ent by the 
"appointive" delegates individually. 



Yours very truly. 



Ruth Slade 
Secretary 



RS:dp 
Encs. 



3722 COMMTJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an appointment, 
directed to the secretary of state of the State of California, indicating 
that you had been appointed a delegate to fill a vacancy in the 61st 
assembly district by the Independent Progressive Central Committee 
to the party's State convention. Will you examine it, please, and state 
whether or not you did hold the position indicated there. 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer for the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the document in evidence, and ask that it be 
marked "Berland Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Moulder. Is your reason for declining to answer the question 
based upon the fifth amendment, in that your answer might tend to 
incriminate you? 

Mr. Berland. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, the exhibit offered by counsel is 
admitted in evidence. 

Berland Exhibit No. 2 
Tp the Secretary of State of the State of California: 



This is to certify that the Los Angeles County 

Indeperident Progressive Central Cotnmittee at a regular meeting held on 

the ^3th_ day of J uly 19i+8, by action of a majority of the 

menberE of said committer" appointed SAt.tUEL J. BFRLJ^JID 

P.O, ^dclieus 12050 Cl over Avenue, Los A n£el e£, Califor nia 

delegate to the Indeperdent Progressive stato CoiU'intion to be held in 
the City of Sacramento, "Aatt; of Califomin, on i}.s Yt-tj day of AU)>',u3t, 
1948, In accordance with Sections 2796, etc. of the California El'jctions 

Code to fill the vacancy vhich exists in tiic 61 st Assembly 

District, where tl;ere is no ''hold-over delegate'' nor "nominee delegate" 
of the party. 



^^c^ 



Chairman 





ecretory 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3723 

Mr. Tavenner. "Were you aware in 1948 of the plan of the Com- 
munist Party to secure registration of its members in the Independent 
Progressive Party in California? 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Did you so register on the 27th day of February 
1048, as indicated by this photostatic copy of an affidavit of registra- 
tion, which I hand you. It is marked for identification as "Berland 
Exhibit No. 3." 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the document in evidence, and ask that it be 
marked "Berland Exhibit No. 3." 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exliibit No. 1, p. 3664, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the com- 
mittee's records.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you not active in the area of Los Angeles in 
1948 and up through 1950 at least in the work of the Independent 
Progressive Party? 

Mr. Berland. I decline to answer for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me various issues of the Daily Peo- 
ple's World. Here is one of January 30, 1950, showing that Samuel 
J. Berland, international representative of the CIO, United Public 
Workers, was to make a general report at a meeting to be held on 
February 7, 1950. 

Were you solicited by the Communist Party to engage in that type 
of activity ? 

Mr. Berkvnd. I am sorry, sir; I didn't understand the question. I 
remember you started to read sometliing, and then 

Mr. Tavenner. I say I have before me an issue of the Daily People's 
World showing that you were to participate by making a general 
report on the Independent Progressive Party's campaign in the 16th 
Congressional District. 

Were you solicited to do that work by the Connnunist Party ? 

Mr. Moulder. IMay I suggest that he first be asked whether or not 
lie did that work, and then ask whether or not he was solicited by the 
Communist Party to do it. 

Mr. Berland. One answer at a time. 

I will decline to answer the first for the same reason. And I will 
decline to answer the second question for the same reason. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner, Then your answer is the same. 



7743fi— 50— ])t. 7 6 



3724 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

In other words, Mr. Berland, you refuse to tell this committee what 
your position in the Independent Progressive Party was, or any 
connection that the Communist Party may have had with your work 
in that group. Do I understand that? 

Mr. Berland. I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will withdraw the question rather than repeat it. 

I have before me a photostatic copy of the July 21, 1950, issue of 
the Daily People's World which shows that Sam Berland, United 
Public Workers International representative, was one of those seek- 
ing the signing of the Stockholm Peace Appeal petitions in the area 
of Los Angeles. Do you recall engaging in work of that character? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, gentlemen; declination for the 
same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to an issue of the Daily People's World 
under date of March 29, 1949, it is stated that Sam Berland will chair 
a meeting being sponsored by the Independent Progressive Party's 
Ven-Mar Club. Do you recall whether or not you did act as chairman 
of such meeting ? 

Mr. Berland. I decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Sylvia Lardner? 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer that question for 
the same reason. 

Mr. Taatsnner. Is Sylvia Lardner now one of the partners with 
you in the builder and developer business which you have described ? 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Carter Darnell ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Is Carter Darnell a partner of yours in the builder 
and developer business in the city of Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer, sir. 

Mr, Ta\'enner. Not in the city of Los Angeles, but at Garden Grove. 

Mr. Berland. Still the same answer. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. What is the name of the partnership under which 
you and others are operating at the present time in that business ? 

Mr. Berland. Will you repeat that question, sir ? 

Mr. Tam<:nner. Wliat is the name of the partnership in which you 
are engaged in the builder and developer business ? 

Mr. Moulder. The business name under which he operates ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right. 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. In the practice of your business as a builder and 
developer is it customary for you to procure from the Veterans' Ad- 
ministration certificates of reasonable value of properties which you 
are offering for sale as a basis for the borrowing of money ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire if there is a reason for 
this line of questioning related to the subject of the inquiry? 

(Whereupon, the committee and committee counsel confer.) 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3725 

Mr. Berland. Gentlemen, upon advice of counsel, I wish to say that 
I believe that this question is not pertinent, and beyond the scope of 
the committee. 

Mr. Moulder. We agree to that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether the person I inquired about — 
Sylvia Lardner — is now the wife of Carter Darnell ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Berland. I respectfully decline to answer that question for 
the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

I have asked you that question as to certain specific dates, but I am 
asking you now whether at any time you have been a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Berl.\nd. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. TA'srENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

Mr. Berland. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, do you have any questions to ask this 
witness ? 

Mr. DoTLE. I wish to make this statement. I have often stated it. 

I can understand how many patriotic Americans would join the 
Communist Party in our country prior to May 1945, which was the 
year, I believe, that Earl Browder was expelled from leadership in the 
American Communist Party. But, for the life of me, I have never yet 
been able to understand how successful American businessmen could 
fail to have had their eyes opened within a year or two after May 
1945, as to the real objectives of the Soviet conspiracy. 

Mr. Berland. The record will show I never admitted any member- 
ship. 

Mr. DoTT^. I am not inferring that you did admit anything. I am 
just saying that, as one American citizen to you, sir, because I do know 
that your business operations are very successful dollarwise and you 
are in a position to do great service to your country which has blessed 
your financial welfare. I hope you will distribute some of that bless- 
ing in vigorous, patriotic endeavor to other people. 

Mr. Berland. That I will do. That I will surely do. Am I 
excused, sir? 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions? 

Do you have any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. I yield to Mr. Scherer. 

JSfr. Scherer. I just want to make this observation : 

Here we have a witness who has invoked the fifth amendment to 
almost every pertinent question asked. Yet he has done so without 
rancor and without malice, and he has done so respectfully in a digni- 
fied manner. 

And, also, counsel, I think, has acted in a professional and dignified 
manner in this instance. And it clearly demonstrates how quickly 
you can dispose of a witness when he follows the law. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you have any further comment to make? 

Mr. Berland. No. 



3726 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. I slioiild like to associate myself with the gentleman 
from Ohio with respect to the manner of representation of the pres- 
ent witness. 

Mr. CoopEK. Thank you, gentlemen. 

Mr. Moulder. However, we do not agree with the lack of informa- 
tion. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; I could almost have a friendly feeling toward 
the witness. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sylvia Lardner. 

Mr. Moulder. "Will you be sworn as a witness? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony which you are about to give 
before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you, God ? 

Mrs. Darnell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SYLVIA LARDNER DARNELL (MRS. CARTER DAR- 
NEL), ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, GRANT B. COOPER 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your name, please ? 

Mrs. Darnell. Sylvia Darnell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you subpenaed under the name of Sylvia 
Lardner ? 

Mrs. Darnell. Yes. I have just recently been married — in Sep- 
tember of 1955. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you born in Los Angeles ? 

Mrs. Darnell. No. I was born in New York City, March 3, 1913. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you move to California ? 

Mrs. Darnell. In June of 1934. 

Mr. Tavenner. "VA^iat is your present profession or occupation? 

Mrs. Darnell. I am an associate in the Plale Co. I am sorry 

Mr. Moulder. What was the position? 

Mr. Cooper. She said she was an associate in the Hale Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. I did not understand the name. 

Is that the same company with which Mr. Carter Darnell is an 
associate ? 

Mrs. Darnell. May I ask my counsel a question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Surely. 

Just a moment. I withdraw that question because I understand 
the two of you are now married. 

Mrs. Darnell. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it the same company in which Mr. Samuel Ber- 
land, who was just on the stand, is an associate ? 

(The witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Darnell. I would like to have the opportunity to decline to 
answer that question on the grounds of possible incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you refuse to answer on that ground? 

Mrs. DarnelIv. I do, sir. 

Mr. Cooper. Mr. (Chairman, may tlie record show that hereafter 
when the witness declines, she will decline on the same ground in the 
interest of time? 

Mr. Moi^LDER. Yes. Where the witness declines to answer and 
states for tlie same reasons, it will be understood tliat she has declined 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3727 

to answer the question claiming the provisions and protection of the 
fifth amendment, in tliat her ansAver might tend to incriminate her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were 3'ou a member of the Commmiist Party at 
any time between 1945 and 1948? 

Mrs. Darnell. I will decline to answer for the same reason stated, 
if that is an accurate statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time since 1950 ? 

Mrs. Darnell. I have not. 

Mr. Taa-enner. When did you enter into the business in which you 
are now associated? 

Mrs. Darnell. 1953. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time since 1953 ^ 

Mrs. Darnell. 1 have not, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you are not a member of the Communist Party 
now ? 

Mrs. Darnell. Emphatically not. 

Mr. Tamlnner. Were vou a member of the Communist Party in 
1952? 

Mrs. Darnell. I would like to decline to answer that question for 
the same reasons. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you so decline ? 

Mrs. Darnell. I do. I am sorry I am making a mess of this, gentle- 
men, but I reallj' can't keep it too straight. 

Mr. Tavenner. "AVliat was the nature of your employment in 1952? 

Mrs. Darnell. I was employed in — Would you please repeat that 
year? I am sorry. 

Mr. Cooper. 1952. 

Mrs. Darnell. 1952. I will decline to answer that question for 
the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner, I have no further questions. 

Mt. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. DoYT.E. I just have one question, Mrs. Darnell. 

I couldn't help but notice, when our counsel asked you if you were 
now a member of the Communist Party, your answer was "emphati- 
cally not." Do you remember that phrase ? 

Mrs. Darnell. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Now when 3'ou said "emphatically not," did you have 
something in mind ? Why did you use the words, "emphatically not" ? 

Mrs. Darnell. I meant just that, I expect, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, !Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. INIouLDER. Any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 
• Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. INIouLDER. Very well, the witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Carter Darnell. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Darnell. I do. 



3728 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

TESTIMONY OF CARTER DARNELL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

GRANT B. COOPER 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ? 

Mr. Darnell. Carter Darnell. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by the 
same counsel who appeared with the two preceding witnesses. 

'Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Darnell ? 

Mr. Darnell. I was born in Piano, P-1-a-n-o, 111., 1920. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Darnell. I reside in Newport Beach. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided in California ? 

Mr. Darnell. Since approximately 1927. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVhat is your occupation ? 

Mr. Darnell. I am a contractor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your edu- 
cational training has been ? 

Mr. Darnell. I am substantially a college graduate without a 
degree. I hesitate to say what my education has been because it puts 
me in a rather f)eculiar position in this room. I was educated as a 
musician. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is certainly nothing to be ashamed of in 
stating that. 

Since you have said that you are, I want to ask if you know any- 
thing about Communist Party activities among any group of 
musicians. 

Mr. Darnell. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Cooper. Mr. Chairman, may we have the same understanding, 
that if he should decline again it will be on the same ground ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. At any time the witness claims the privilege 
of declining to answer and states for the same reason it will be under- 
stood that it will be for the reason just given by the witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter into your profession of 
contractor ? 

Mr. Darnell. I entered the contracting business in approximately 
1948, Mr. Tavenner, and I can't remember the exact date. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said you were educated as a musician. Were 
you a professional musician at any time prior to 1948? 

Mr. Darnell. Unfortunately, no, sir. I guess I just didn't have 
what it takes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you complete your education ? In what 
year ? 

Mr. Darnell. It is difficult to say. The reason I spent so many, 
years going to night school, I can't remember when I stopped. I went 
to UCLA extension at nights for a great many years. I can't give 
you the exact date I stopped going. 

Mr. Tavenner. What employment did you have prior to 1948? 

Mr. Darnell. I was employed by an oil company and a railroad 
company except during the time I was in the Army. 

ISIr. Tavenner. AVas that in construction work? 

Mr. Darnell. No, sir. That was administrative work. 

Mr. Moulder. In the Army? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3729 

Mr. Darnell, Prior to the time I went in the Army I was employed 
by an oil company and a railroad company. 

Mr. Moulder. I believe the record should show what service you 
had in the armed services. Will you give us the information about 
that? 

Mr, Darnell. I was overseas in France, Belgium, and Germany 
for almost 2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment since 1948? 

Mr. Darnell. It has been substantially all in the construction 
industry. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom have you been employed since 1948? 

Mr. Darnell. May I confer with my counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Darnell. I decline to answer for the same reason. 

Shall I speak up a little bit? I am afraid I get a hum in this 
microphone if I talk too loud. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let's run that risk. 

Mr. Darnell. I decline to answer for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you begin your present employment, 
that of a contractor? 

Mr. Darnell. I don't quite understand the question. I have been 
in and around the construction business since approximately 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you associated at this time with Mr. Samuel 
Berland in the construction or building and development business? 

Mr. Darnell. I respectfully decline for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. The Chair directs you to answer that question. I 
can't conceive of any reason how you could claim that being associated 
with the gentleman or any other person named in that particular 
business could possibly incriminate you. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Darnell. I decline on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been the general nature of your con- 
tracting business in the past 3 years? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Darnell. I respectfully refuse to answer the question because, 
upon advice of counsel, I believe it is beyond the scope of the investi- 
gation, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at an}^ time since January 1, 1953 ? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

Mr. Darnell. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were j^ou a member of the Communist Party on 
January 1, 1956? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
the time process or subpena was served on you for your appearance 
before this committee? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Darnell. No, sir. 

Mr. Ta^ enner. When was process served on you ? Can you recall 
the approximate date ? 



3730 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr, Darneix,. I believe it was on the 6th, around the 6th of March, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on the 
1st day of March ? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline for the same reason, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. But on the 6th you were not ? 

Mr. Darnell. Is that a question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am repeating what I understood your testimony 
to be. 

Mr. Darnell. I affirm that testimony, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What day was it, between the 1st day of March and 
the 6th day of March, that you ceased to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cooper. Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Cooper. May I make a suggestion to Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Ta^^nner. I am always open to suggestion. 

Mr. Cooper. Would you ask him if he has been a member of the 
Communist Party in the last 3 years? 

Mr. Tavenner. I did. 

Mr. Cooper. Will you ask him that question again ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked him if he had been a member of the Com- 
munist Party at any time since January 1, 1953. If the witness de- 
sires to change his testimony and explain it I would be vei*y happy for 
him to do so. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Darnell. The answer is "No," sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't understand. 

Mr. Cooper. The answer is "No,'* Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Ta-s^nner. When I asked you that question a few moments ago 
you refused to answer. 

Mr. Cooper. Might I suggest, Mr. Tavenner, that that w^as because 
of a misunderstanding, lie discussed it with me and cleared up his 
misunderstanding. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to know if that is his explanation. 

Ml'. Darnell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask 3'ou this question : 

Regardless of whether you are or not, or ever ha"\'e been a member 
of the Communist Party, what is your opinion and belief for or against 
the philosophy and the objectives of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Darneij:.. Would you repeat that question, please? 

Mr. Moulder. Would the reporter read the question back, please? 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Darnell. I believe in the Government of the United States and 
all that it stands for, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. That is a very good answer. 

Mr. Taatenner. In 1948 were von a ineniber of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in any plan of the Communist 
Party to assist the Independent Progressive Party in California, either 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3731 

by your rejijistration in that party or otherwise aiding and assisting 
the work of that party ? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline on the same gronnds, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you register on the '27th day of February 1948 
as a member of the Independent Progressive Party of California, as 
indicated by a photostatic copy of an affidavit of registration which 
I hand you, marked "Darnell Exhibit No. 1" for identification? 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Darnell (after examining document). I respectfully decline 
on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence, 
and ask that it be marked, "Darnell Exhibit No. 1." 

(This exhibit is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 1, p. 3664, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the com- 
mittee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, it is so ordered. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. "Were you a member of the Communist Partv in 
1949? 

Mr. Darnell. I respectfully decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
1950? 

Mr. Darnell. I respectfully decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Partv in 
1951? 

Mr. Darnell. The same grounds. 

Mr. Moulder. Were you at any time a member of the Communist 
Party prior to the, year 1953 ? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mny I ask one specific question. 

Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1952 ? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. AYliat was your employment in 1952? 

Mr. Darnell. I decline on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. DoTLE. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, the committee is in receipt of two 
telegrams which bear upon one of the pi-incipal charges leveled against 
the committee and the conduct of these hearings, in that it has been 
alleged by the Citizens Committee to Preserve American Freedoms 
jind the organization representing the subpenaed musicians that this 
was an effort on the part of the committee to enter into a local labor 
dispute. 

It has been requested by Mr. Cecil F. Read, vice president of Local 
47, American Federation of Musicians, and by Mr. John Te Groen of 
the American Federation of Musicians, that these telegrams be read 
into the record. And, if it is your wish, I will do that at this time. 

Mr. Moulder. Without objection, the telegrams will be read into 
the record at this point. 



3732 COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. The telegram from Mr. Eead is as follows : 

I have been assured that there is no connection between the present internal 
struggle of Local 47, A. F. of M., and the investigations being carried on by the 
House Un-American Activities Committee in Los Angeles. However, I would 
like to make the following statement so that the record may be complete and 
clear. 

I am completely and unalterably opposed to the Communist Party and all that 
it stands for. From the beginning of my activities in local 47 and the American 
Federation of Musicians I have excluded from my workers and supporters any- 
one about who there was the slightest basis for the accusation of Communist or 
Communist sympathizers. It is unfortunate that the hearings of the House 
Un-American Activities Committee in Los Angeles follows so closely the hearings 
and trials that the A. F. of M. has been conducting in local 47. The bylaws of 
the A. F. of M. provide as follows, quote. Registration in the Communist, Nazi, 
or Fascist Party or membership in Communist-front organizations shall be 
deemed sufficient cause for the expulsion of any member, unquote. Any attempt 
by anyone to tie in any Communist or sympathizers with me or with the over- 
whelming majority of professional musicians of local 47 whom I represent is 
completely unjustified. 

Cecil F. Read, 
Vice President, Local Jfl, A. F. of M. 

The telegram from Mr. John Te. Groen is as follows : 

A factional fight between a group headed by Cecil Read, vice president of 
local 47, and a group headed by myself and the other officers of the local has 
been in progress for the past several months. This fight originated over certain 
policies of the American Federation of Musicians and is an international affair. 
It culminated in an attempt by the Read group to seize control of the local and 
in the trial of Read and 12 of his followers on charges of dual unionism and 
violating certain orders of the American Federation of Musicians. In view 
of the fact that the present controversy is being handled as an international 
matter within the framework of the federation, I cannot see how your investi- 
gation has anything to do with it. Certainly your investigation was not called 
at our request, and I have no reason to believe that the federation requested it. 
I respectfully suggest that the content of this telegram be entered into the 
Congressional Record. 

John Te. Geoen, 
President, Local 1ft, A. F. of M. 

Mr. Moulder. I compliment the gentleman for putting those tele- 
grams in the record at this point. 

Mr. Doyle. I have a letter dated April 2, 1956, from J. Edgar 
Hoover, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Depart- 
ment of Justice, which I would like to read into the record at this time. 
I might state that this is in answer to my letter of inquiry to Mr. 
Hoover. 

He says : 

Hon. Clyde Doyle, 

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. 
My Dhae Congressman : Your letter of March 29, 1956, has been received, 
and I do appreciate your interest in my recent testimony before the House 
Appropriations Subcommittee. Unfortunately, I do not have copies available 
for distribution, but you may like to make inquiry with the office of the committee 
for the text. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Doyle (reading) : 

The American people owe a great debt of gratitude to the work over the years 
of congressional investigating committees. These committees, day after day, 
secure information vitally needed in the consideration of new legislation. They 
are indeed indispensable parts of the American legislative process. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3733 

Congressional investigating committees, moreover, time after time have brought 
to the attention of the Nation conditions of fraud, dishonesty, and subversion. 
This function of awalvening public opinion is of the greatest importance in our 
democratic life — a service not within the province of regularly constituted in- 
vestigative agencies. Congressional investigating committees, by the nature of 
the broad powers vested in them, are enabled to search out the facts and make 
them available to the citizenry. 

We in the FBI have the highest appreciation for the contributions rendered 
by congressional investigating committees dealing with un-American activities. 
Each in its own way is serving the American people. The FBI is strictly a fact- 
gathering agency. It does not express opinions or make recommendations on the 
information it secures. That is the function of other officials of the Government. 
As the investigative arm of the Department of Justice, the FBI is charged with 
the duty of investigating violations of the laws of the United States, collecting 
evidence in cases in which the United States is or may be a party in interest, 
and performing other duties imposed by law. Its function is not exposure or 
securing information for legislative purposes. That is the function of the con- 
gressional investigating committees. 

I feel that both the FBI and congressional investigating committees, in the 
field of internal secui'ity, have important roles to play. We are working for the 
same goal — protecting our great Nation from enemies who seek to destroy us. 
Our work is not contradictory but mutually helpful. That is as it should be. 

It was a pleasure to set forth my opinions on this topic, and you may feel 
free to insert this letter in the Congressional Record. 
Sincerely yours, 

J. Edgab Hoover. 

Mr. Chairman, manifestlj', the reason I corresponded with this 
famous director, whose opinion, I think, is generally accepted by all 
patriotic American citizens, is that I occasionally received inquiries as 
to why there are congressional investigative committees. Why don't 
we let the FBI do all the work? 

This is Mr. Hoover's reply to that inquiry. 

Mr. Moulder. Thank you for securing the letter Mr. Doyle. It is 
a contribution to have it read into the record. 

Are you ready to proceed with the next witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Milton Kestenbaum, come forward, please. 

Mr. Moulder. Would you hold up your right hand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to 
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you, God ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MILTON KESTENBAUM, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, ARTHUK A. BROOKS, JR. 

Mr. Tavenner, What is your name, please, sir ? 
Mr. Kestenbaum. Milton Kestenbaum. 
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ? 
Mr. Kestenbaum. K-e-s-t-e-n-b-a-u-m. 
_ Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden- 
tify himself for the record. 

Mr. Brooks. Yes ; Arthur A. Brooks, Jr. 

Mr. Tavenner. Los Angeles? 

Mr. Brooks. Beverly Hills. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kestenbaum, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. I^stenbaum. New York City, 1914. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ? 



3734 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived here ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Since approximately 1946 or 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I am a blacklisted musician. 

Mr. Tavenner. By any chance, are you also a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I don't think you have the right to pry into my 
private beliefs. 

Your purposes here 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to respond to the question, or, 
by giving, if he wishes, the legal reasons for declining to answer. I 
urge the witness to do that. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. The first amendment guarantees me the right to 
my political beliefs, my beliefs to associate, my beliefs to worship as 
I please. That is an immoral question, and Mr. Tavenner knows 
it so. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion. 

I might state that the committee does not accept his answer. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer, and may I ex- 
plain, it is for your own protection that you are directed to answer. 
And it is called to your attention that by your refusal to answer with- 
out good cause and good faith, claiming to protection of the Constitu- 
tion as a reason for not answering, you might place yourself in danger 
of being subject to prosecution for contempt. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I answer under the rights guaranteed to me by 
the Bill of Rights, the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer, claiming that protection 
and for the reason that you claim the 

Mr. Kestenbaum. The rights guaranteed to me. 

Mr. Jackson. Specifically the first and fifth amendments? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. And the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of the existence of an organized 
group of the Communist Party in Los Angeles composed principally 
of members of the musicians' profession ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. We heard testimony this morning that the chief 
objective of the organized group of the Communist Party, to which I 
have referred, in 1947 and 1948 was to support the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party of California. Do you have any knowledge of the Com- 
munist Party decision to act in that field ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. When you have the right to go into the voting 
booth with me, then I will discuss my political opinions. 

Mr. Moulder. That was not the question. The answer is purely 
argmnentative, and I urge the witness either to answer the question or 
decline to answer under the provisions of the Constitution. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Mr. Tavenner knows he has no right to ask 
me that question. 

Mr. Moulder. The witnness is directed to answer. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer on the grounds stated, the 
first and fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3735 

Mr. Tavexner. Did you, pursuant to Coimnunist Party directive^ 
register as a member of the Independent Progressive Party of Cali- 
fornia on the 23d day of February 1948 ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Is it subversive to register with a political party, 
Mr. Tavenner^ 

Mr. Moulder. Did you so register ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I didn't say so. I am just asking him a ques- 
tion, if that is an act of subversion. 

Mr. jSIoulder. Then you probably will decide that question by de- 
clining to answer for the reason of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I asked Mr. Tavenner a question: If it is sub- 
versive to register with a political party. 

Mr. ScHERER. You have no right to ask counsel questions. 

If you don't want to answer questions invoke your privilege. You 
are here to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. May I undertake briefly to answer the witness' question. 

It certainly is not subversive or un-American to register with any 
legal political party in California. 

But we have plenty of evidence given under oath, by the witness 
this morning and many times in other hearings in California by 
admitted Communist Party leaders, and admitted Independent Pro- 
gressive Party leaders in California, that the Communist Party in 
California was the initiator and prime mover in the formation of the 
IPP in California in 1947 and 1948. 

This question is for the purpose of trying to learn the extent to 
which the Communist Party organized the IPP as a Communist front 
in California. 

For instance, Mr. Waddilove, a member of your profession, stated 
this morning that the formation of a Communist front was actually 
what the IPP was. 

That is why Mr. Tavenner asked you that question. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I see. 

The subversive list is so big that I can't keep up with all the sub- 
versive organizations. Is the IPP considered subversive ? 

Mr. Doyle. We are investigating to discover the extent to which 
it was made subversive by the 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Is it now considered a subversive organization ? 

Mr. Doyle. By the infiltration and control of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Is it now considered a subversive organization? 

Mr. Jackson. According to the testimony of many witnesses, yes. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. According to testimony. 

Mr. Jackson. According to the sworn testimon}- of those who chose 
to give information in tlieir possession to the committee, that is the 
fact. 

Mr. SciiERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Please repeat the last question. 

Mr. Tavenner. The question was whether or not, at the instance of 
the Communist Party, you registered as a member of the Independent 
Progressive Party of California on the 23d day of February 1948. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

]\Ir. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 



3736 COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an affidavit of 

registration bearing the name of Milton Kestenbaum, and ask you 

whether or not the name appearing thereon is your signature ? The 

document is marked "Kestenbaum Exhibit No. 1" for identification. 

(Document handed to tlie witness and his counsel.) 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
the first and fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence, and 
ask it be marked "Kestenbaum Exhibit No. 1." 

(This exhibit is similar to "Waddilove Exhibit No. 1," p. 3664, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the 
committee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. It is so ordered. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, at the instance of the Communist Party, 
participate in a plan to circulate petitions for the purpose of getting 
the Independent Progressive Party on the ballot in 1948 ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a petition at the 
end of which appears an affidavit over the name of Milton Kestenbaum. 
I ask you to examine the petition and state whether or not the name ap- 
pearing in the affidavit is yours or was signed by you. The document 
is marked "Kestenbaum Exhibit No. 2" for identification. 

(Document handed to the witness and his counsel.) 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
the first amendment supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the document in evidence, and ask that it be 
marked "Kestenbaum Exhibit No. 2." 

(This exhibit is similar to "Waddilove Exhibit No. 3," p. 3667, and 
will not be reproduced in the printed record. It is on file in the com- 
mittee's records.) 

Mr. Moulder. It is ordered that the exhibit be so marked and ad- 
mitted in evidence as requested by counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on the 
date of the affidavit which you have in your hand ? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you photostatic copies of application cards 
for membership in the Wilshire Club of the Independent Progressive 
Party bearing the dates February 15, 1953, and March 21, 1954, re- 
spectively, and ask you whether they were your membership cards for 
those years ? I will mark them "Kestenbaum Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4," 
respectively, for identification, and to be retained in the committee's 
files. 

(Documents handed to the witness and his counsel.) 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. May I at this point make a comment. 

A moment ago you inquired whether or not it was subversive or 
un-American to belong to a political party. 

Of course, we all concur that it is not. It is a fundamental part of 
our democratic process in this country to be actively a member of 
legitimate political parties. 

Then you inquired as to whether or not the IPP was cited as sub- 
versive. 



COMJVITJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3737 

I am just curious to know why you refuse to answer that question 
if the IPP is not, in your own mind, considered to be un-American 
and subversive. 

Mr. Kestenbaum. Well, if I may, I will answer it this way : That 
the founders of our Constitution recogTiized, because of the nature of 
our Government, that perhaps at some future time certain opinions 
would be considered unpopular, minority opinions. And just because 
a person doesn't conform to the majority opinion that doesn't neces- 
sarily mean that he is subversive. 

Perhaps 30 years a^o a person before such a committee wouldn't 
admit to being a member of a trade union, because if he admitted being 
a member of a trade union he would be blacklisted like I am today. 

And for this reason I inquired. 

I want to know what is the purpose of these questions. And that 
is why I answer on my rights guaranteed me under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party at this 
time? 

Mr. Kestenbaum. I refuse to answer that under the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Sidnej^ Greene. 

Mr. Moulder. You are Mr. Sidney Greene ? 

Mr. Greene. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Hold up your right hand and be sworn. Do you 
solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the com- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Greene. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SIDNEY GEEENE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

MOKTIMER VOGEL 

Mr. Tam^nner. "\^niat is your name, please, sir? 
Mr. Greene. Sidney Greene, G-r-e-e-n-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden- 
tify himself for the record ? 
Mr. Vogel. Mortimer Vogel. 
Mr. Tavenner. Of what bar ? 
Mr. Vogel. Los Angeles, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Greene ? 
Mr. Greene. I was born in New York City on May 17, 1913. 
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a resident of Los Angeles ? 
Mr. Greene. I am. 

Mr. Tamiinner. How long have you resided in Los Angeles ? 
Mr. Greene. On and off since 1940. 
Mr. Ta\t^nner. What is your occupation or profession ? 
Mr. Greene. Musician. 



3738 COMMXINIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Greene. I was educated in the public schools of New York. I 
attended City College of New York. At the age of 8 I started the 
study of the violin and music. At the age of 11 1 won a city wide com- 
petition at Carnegie Hall. At the age of 14 I won a scholarship tO' 
a graduate school of music, one of the youngest ever to do so. In 1931, 
on a scholarship, I was sent to Europe, where I studied in France. I 
graduated Juilliard in 1932. And in 1936 I went to work for the 
St. Louis Symphony. In the summer of 1937 I worked with the New 
York Philharmonic. I joined the Los Angeles Philharmonic in 1941. 

I enlisted in the Navy in 1942, and I served for 3i4 years. Upon 
discharge, from the time I was discharged I have been working in the 
studios, from 1946 approximately. 

I have attended the University of Southern California and have been 
attending the University of California at Los Angeles. 

As a coincidence, one of the courses I have been taking is a course 
in American history, and it was prophetic that in this course we 
studied other periods of suppression. And I refer to the Salem witch 
hunts of 1692 and the periocl around the Alien Sedition Acts of 1798. 

Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt to inquire who was your instructor 
or professor in that course? 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the 
first and fifth amendments. 

I don't see that is pertinent, to involve the name of the instructor 
of a university into tliese hearings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you had any other courses of instruction 
since 1946 ? 

Mr. Greene. Excuse me a moment, sir. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Tavenner, could you be more specific? That 
question is a little too general. 

Mr. Tavenner. I can't make it more direct than that. I just asked 
you if you have liad any other courses of instruction. 

Mr. Greene. As far as music is concerned, Mr. Tavenner, students 
of music never stop studying. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were speaking of studying history. I was not 
speaking of music at that time. I am speaking of studies. 

Mr. Greene. Well, study 

Mr. TA\a<:NNER. Have you studied Marxist theory with any group ? 

( The witness confers with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Greene. I decline to answer that question on the basis of the 
first amendment, and I would like to state my reasons for doing so. 

Mr. Moulder. The amendment speaks for itself. 

Mr. Greene. I would also like to include the fifth amendment in 
declining to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the information available to the 
committee, you are in a position to liave some knowledge of an organ- 
ized group of the Communist Party betvroen 1946 and 1948 composed 
almost exclusively of members of the musicians' profession. 

Do you have any knowledge of such activities ? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3739 

Mr. Greene. I decline to answer that question, sir, or any other 
questions simihir to it for the following reasons : the reasons I am going 
to state are in relation to the Constitution as it affects 

Mr. Moulder. May I say, as for myself personally, I would rule 
that when a witness claims the protection of the first and fifth amend- 
ments or any reason of the Constitution, he could be given an oppor- 
tunity briefly to state his reason in connection therewith. But most of 
the witnesses will prolong it by giving lengthy lectures about their 
reasons insofar as it enables the witness to condemn the committee. 

However, the majority of the committee do not look at it as I do 
in that respect. Therefore, I would have to urge the witness merely 
to state his reasons for not answering. 

Mr. Greene. I must respectfully submit that I intend to be brief, 
with your cooperation and the committee's cooperation in not inter- 
rupting. 

Mr. Moulder. Until an objection is made I will so permit. I will 
state it that way. 

Mr. Greene. Thank you. 

I decline to answer that question or any other questions similar to 
it for the following reasons : 

It has been stated that the purpose of this committee is to investigate 
subversive propaganda, to help in the formulation of information 
to be used in drawing up legislation. 

Now this committee and its predecessors have been functioning 
since 1938, and in all this time this committee has proposed no legis- 
lation to justify its avowed 

Mr. Sciierer. "Wait a minute. 

Mr. Moulder. That is not true. 

Mr. Jackson. May a statement be made for the record at this 
time ^ 

Mr. Moulder. The chair recognizes Congressman Jackson of Cali- 
fornia. 

Mr. Jackson. This committee has during the course of the past 
few years suggested remedial legislation in over 40 instances. Of that 
number, all except 2 or 3 of the recommendations have been accepted 
by the House of Kepresentatives and incorporated into existing law or 
into regulations of a Government agency. 

Let's have the record absolutely straight. 

So far as the remedial legislation aspect of the work of this com- 
mittee is concerned, the committee has a number of recommendations 
now pending before the House of Representatives which will un- 
doubtedly, in many instances, be incorporated into law. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. INfr. Chairman, I am going to object to this man read- 
ing a speech. We have not allowed any other witness to read a speech. 
His very first statement is false information. 

I am going to object to this witness being treated any differently 
than any other witness. 

Mr. Jackson. I support the gentleman. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well ; the objection is sustained. 

As I understand, your refusal in declining to answer is based upon 
the first amendment. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am 
not reading from a speech. I am not a practiced public speaker, and, 

77436 — 56— pt. 7—^7 



3740 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

because of the nature of this hearing;, I have had to put my thoughts 
down so that I would be certain to remember all that I have thought 
of within these last 4 or 5 weeks, 

Mr. Moulder. We don't intend to argue with you about that. 

As I understand, you decline to answer, giving as a reason for 
refusing to answer, the first amendment of the Constitution ? Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Greene. That is correct, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Let's proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman, my name has been used in the publicity 
concerning this committee, and I think it only fair that the public 
and the members of my community be permitted to hear what I have 
to say as regards this publicity that was given me, unsolicited pub- 
licity. 

Mr. Doyle. May I say to the witness, your very first statement was 
absolutely false. Why should we let you sit there in the witness chair 
and make false statements about Congress ? 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Doyle, these are my convictions. 

Mr. DoTLE. That is a matter of fact that you were talking about. 

Mr. Greene. I may be mistaken. I may be mistaken, Mr. Doyle. 
If so, I have been corrected by Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. As long as we are on corrections, let's make the 
second correction. 

Any publicity which attended mention of your name in any pub- 
lication must have come from you. It was not released by the 
committee. 

Mr. Greene. It was stated on the day that the news item appeared 
in the press that the names of the subpenaed musicians would not be 
published until the day of the hearing. 

On the very next day 22 names appeared in the newspapers. 

Mr. Jackson. I want to ask specifically whether any release has 
been made by the committee. 

It is a matter I intend to inquire into further. It has been the 
policy of this committee — as far as I know, the policy has been 
followed — not releasing any names to the press. You can check 
3'^ourself with the members of the press as to that policy. However, 
it will be inquired into further to determine the facts of the case. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Jackson, I can only judge by what has happened. 

Mr. Moulder. Now you are being given an opportunity to appear 
before the committee to redeem yourself by refuting what you claim 
to be the inference that you might be a member of the Communist 
Party or engaged in subversive activities. You can do so very clearly 
and effectively by answering questions which will be propounded to 
you by counsel. 

Let's proceed with the examination of the witness. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. As the record now stands, he has relied on the 
first amendment only. 

Mr. Moulder. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think he should be directed to answer. 

Mr. Greene. If I may be permitted to answer the question that was 
originally directed to me, Mr. Chairman, I would like to continue 
my reasons for declining to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. You can readily understand what I mean by this. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3741 

You could probably speak on those reasons until midnight tonight. 

Mr. Greene. That is not my intention, Mr. Chairman. If I am not 
interrupted I venture to say this will take me perhaps three-quarters 
of a minute. 

Mr. JMouLDER. You understood my attitude by the statement I made 
earlier about giving lengthy speeches, and objection has been made 
by the committee members, and, therefore, I will have to sustain the 
objection and ask that you state any other reasons you may have other 
than the first amendment for declining to answer. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. It is my conclusion, Mr. Chairman, that, in view of 
the past history of this committee 

Mr. Moulder. That is the very thing which we will not tolerate. 
I am very patient and understanding with everyone and will be re- 
spectful to every witness who appears before the committee. But I 
do not wish to sit here and be harangued, criticized, and insulted by 
witnesses who are subpenaed by the committee. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman, if you are under the impression I seek 
to harangue the committee you are mistaken. 

I just want to state my answers that I have had to prepare in an- 
ticipation of certain questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Cliairman, I would suggest, in the interest of 
speed, that the witness be given a minute to complete his answer. 

Mr. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Moulder. That was my original intention. 

Mr. Jackson. I will agree in the interest of speeding up the process. 

Mr. Doyle. I will withdraw my objection in favor of 1 minute. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well, proceed. 

Mr. Greene. The conclusion that I have drawn, gentlemen, is that 
the purpose of this committee is not to seek information actually, but 
it is to act as an instrument of repression, create an atmosphere of fear 
through the means of economic blacklist, in order to achieve conform- 
ity, to do away with difference of opinion, criticism, and free exchange 
of ideas. 

Now culture cannot flourish in such an atmosphere. I have devoted 
my entire life to the pursuit of culture, and I would have no part in 
any effort to destroy it. 

This committee, by its efforts, has created an atmosphere of fear 
which in time, if it is permitted to continue, will result in an arid 
cultural wasteland of our Nation. 

Outstanding people in our community, such as Mrs. Chandler and 
a good number of the subpenaed witnesses, have made a substantial 
contribution to the effort as regards cultural exchange. Now these 
efforts are being undermined by the very nature of this committee's 
work. 

I further refuse to answer this question, gentlemen, on the basis of 
the fifth amendment to the Constitution, and I specifically refer to that 
part of the amendment which states that no one may be compelled to 
be a" witness against himself. 

Such a question is an infringement of my rights under that 
amendment. 

I might remind this committee that there are many respected indi- 
viduals who agree with this concept of the fifth amendment, and I refer 
to the majority decision that was just recently handed down 



3742 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. I suggest that the minute is well exceeded, and that 
the committee has certainly done its part to permit the witness to ex- 
press himself. 

I shall object to any further discussion of the matter. 

Mr, Moulder. You may cite the case you are referring to. 

Mr. Greene. Thank you. 

Mr. Moulder. What was the case ? 

Mr. Greene. The case was the Slochower decision where a Mr. 
Slochower 

Mr. Moulder. Just cite the case. 

Mr. Greene. Slochower case. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Greene, did you, at the suggestion of the Com- 
munist Party, take part in any planned registration in the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party in 1946 or 1948 ? 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Tavenner, I refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds I have already cited. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, at the instance of the Communist Party, 
take part in any plan to circulate petitions? 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
first amendment supplemented by the fifth amendment. 

Is it understood, gentlemen, that any 

Mr. Moulder. To expedite the proceedings, if you state for the 
same reason it will be for the reasons previously claimed. 

Mr. Greene. This is understood by the committee ? 

Mr. VoGEL. Both the first and fifth. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a member of the West Valley 
Section of the Independent Progressive Party ? 

Mr. Greene. I refuse on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of tlie Communist Party now? 

Mr. Greene. I refuse on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence, for identification only 
and to be retained in the committee's files, the following documents : 
Affidavit of registration of Sidney Greene, to affiliate with the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party, bearing date the 9th day of August 1948, 
which I request be marked "Greene Exhibit No. 1"; and affidavit of 
registration of Sidney Greene, to affiliate with the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party of California, bearing date the 10th day of April 1950. 
which I ask be marked "Greene Exhibit No. 2" ; affidavit of registra- 
tion of Sidney Greene, to affiliate with the Independent Progressive 
Party, bearing date the 21st day of January 1951, which I ask be 
marked "Greene Exhibit No. 3" ; and affidavit of registration of Sidney 
Greene to affiliate with the Independent Progressive Party of Cali- 
fornia, bearing date the 5th day of February 1952, which I ask be 
marked "Greene Exhibit No. 4"; a petition of the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party circulated for signers, at the bottom of which is an 
affidavit bearing tlie date the 1st day of February 1948, in the name 
of Sidney Greene, showing that he was the circulator of the petition, 
which I ask be marked "Greene Exhibit No. 5"; and also petition No. 
8042 of the Independent Progressive l*arty of California, signed on 
line 15 by Sidney Greene, bearing the date the 24th day of October 
1947, which I ask be marked "Greene Exhibit No. 6" ; and also a photo- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3743 

static copy of a membership card in the West A'^alley Chib of the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party, which I ask be marked ''Greene Exhibit 
No. 7." 

(Greene Exhibits Nos. 1-4, affidavits of registration, are similar to 
"Waddilove Exliibit No. 1,'' p. 3664. Green Exhibit No. 5, petition 
and affidavit, is similar to "Waddilove Exhibit No. 3," p. 3667.) 

Mr. Moulder. I would like to ask the witness this question : You have 
heard counsel refer to all of the exhibits mentioned, Nos. 1 to 7, in- 
clusive. Do you wish to have the opportunity to examine any of 
the documents and exhibits mentioned and to explain or deny any 
of the contents contained in any of the documents ? 

Mr. Greene. May I please consult with counsel ? 

Excuse me. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. If Mr. Tavenner wishes to present me with these 
exhibits I will then answer to his questions. 

I would like 

Mr. Tavenner. I would be very glad to present them to you and ask 
you whether or not the signatures of your name are your signatures. 

Mr. Greene. I would like to ask Mr. Tavenner before answering the 
question whether he is trying to impugn my patriotism for circulating 
a petition, for being a member of a recognized political party. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the instance of the Communist Party, yes, I 
am making that assertion, in light of the testimony that the committee 
lias had here today, identifj'ing you as a member of a group in the 
Communist Party which was directed to do the very things which these 
documents show were done by you. 

Will you examine them and state whether or not you circulated the 
petition which bears vour affidavit at the end of it? It is "Exhibit 
No. 5." 

Mr. ]\foTTi,DER. At this point may I make a statement in connection 
with your last question, responded to by Mr, Tavenner. 

There isn't a member of this committee, or Mr. Tavenner or any 
member of the staff or anyone connected with us who denies the right 
of petition or to be affiliated with a legitimate political party. 

The question was somewhat vague. 

You take the position that it was a legitimate party. You are now 
being given the opportunity to clear yourself, to refute any infer- 
ence which you referred to, by testifying in connection with these 
facts as to whether or not the Communist Party did dominate, or 
Avhether or not you had any knowledge of the Communist Party dom- 
ination and influence, or whether or not you acted as an agent in so 
circulating the petition. You can give that explanation and clear your- 
self of any wrongful inference, and also clear any question concerning 
your patriotism or loyalty. 

(The documents were handed to the witness.) 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Tavenner, and you, Mr. Chairman, are assuming 
many things I have not stated. I refuse 

Mr. Moulder. The question probably should be rephrased to ask, 
Did you have any knowledge or information at the time this petition 
was circulated of any Communist Party subversive activities being 
connected with the petition ? 



3744 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer that question and Mr. Tavenner's 
question on the basis of the first amendment supplemented by the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the other documents handed to 
you, and state whether or not, in the instances where your name 
appears, if they are your signatures? Examine each one beginning 
with "Ehibit No. 1." 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Tavenner, do you want an individual answer to 
each one ? Or one answer to all ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You asked to see the documents and wanted to 
examine them. 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer your question on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendments, to any and each of these documents. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you did not want them presented to you at 
all. Did you? 

Mr. Greene. I wanted, yes, I did, to see the documents. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine each one of them, please and state 
whether or not you signed your name to those documents? 

Mr. Greene. My answer is the same, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr, Tavenner. As to each document? 

Mr. Greene. As to each document. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes ; I have one. 

Were you in the hearing room this morning when Mr. Waddilove 
testified ? 

Mr. Greene. I was, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you hear him, in answer to my question 

• (The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask my question, counsel, and let the witness 
hear my question, if you will. 

You heard me ask him whether or not the Communist Party took 
the initiative to organize these petitions and circulate them in order 
to create, if they could, the IPP as a Communist front. 

Did you hear me ask that question and subsequent questions? 

Mr. Greene. I did, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. You heard Mr. Waddilove's answer that the IPP actu- 
ally was a Communist front. Did you hear him answer that way? 
Was he telling the truth or was he telling a falsehood ? 

Mr. Greene. I will not dignify this individual, Mr. Doyle, by 
making any comment on his testimony, and I refuse to answer that 
question on the same grounds I have already stated. 

Mr. Doyle. We are often confronted with criticism that we don't 
give people an apportmiity in a hearing to defend themselves or to 
answer statements about the Communist Party, and I assume from 
your statements to us that you miglit like to answer tliis quetsion. I 
want you to understand that I am one of the Congressmen from Cali- 
fornia who believes absolutely in the right of petition and to the 
effect that we should not question the political allegiance of a duly, 
legally constituted political party in California. 

But our questions to you, sir, in this field go to the point that not 
only did Waddilove testify, but we have many, many others who tes- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3745 

tifiecl heretofore that the IPP was in fact known to the circulators — 
such as you — of these petitions as a Communist front. 

Now if we knew that these petitions were not being circulated by you 
to qualify the IPP as a legally constituted party in California, 
but, in fact, as a Communist front, then I question your patriotism at 
that time. I want to say, too, that you talked about culture a minute 
ago. In my book we don't need the Soviet culture in this country. We 
just need our own American culture. 

WHien it comes to patriotism and loj^alty to the Stars and Stripes we 
need that in preference to the culture that I think you were talking 
about. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. VoGEL. There is a question pending, I believe. Isn't there 
a question ? 

^Ir. DoTLE. No. He and I were just having a little conversation. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Doyle, under different, noncompulsive circum- 
stances, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you. I don't 
think this is the proper atmosphere or proper place. 

Mr. VoGEL. Do I understand the other cjuestion was withdrawn, 
the question propounded by Mr. Doyle ? 

If there isn't any, for the sake of the record, let it show. 

Mr. Moulder. Is there a question pending from you, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. I will withdraw it. He and I understand each other. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. 

Mr. ScuERER. Mr. Greene, how are you presently employed ? 

Mr. Greene. As of today, Mr. Scherer, I have been employed at 
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as a violinist. 

Mr. Scherer. How long have you been employed by Metro-Gold- 
wyn-Mayer ? 

Mr. Greene. Five years, Mr, Scherer. I might state that I don't 
expect to be tomorrow. 

Mr. Scherer. Up to this point you have been employed steadily for 
5 years? 

Mr. Greene. That is so. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. I believe before that you played with the St. Louis 
Symphony Orchestra, the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, the Los 
Angeles Philharmonic; did you not? 

Mr. Greene. Yes, 

Mr. Scherer. You have been steadily employed for quite some time ? 

Mr. Greene. Yes, which I think is a reflection on my ability, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. You said you were blacklisted. 

Mr. Greene. Not as of today, sir. I hope it doesn't take place. I 
would like very much to remain a musician and practice my profession. 

Mr. Doyle. I would like to see you remain. 

In the first part of your testimony you said under oath that you 
had been blacklisted. I made a note of that. 

Mr. Greene. I don't think the transcript would corroborate that. 

Mr. Doyle. It will show you stated, "I am a blacklisted musician." 
I wrote it down. 



3746 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. I wrote the same thing down. I want to know when 
you were blacklisted. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Scherer, from the past experience that people have 
had and witnesses have had with this committee, it has unfortunately 
been true that they 

Mr. Scherer. Now 

Mr. Greene. I will answer you, Mr. Scherer — that they have been 
blacklisted when they refused to cooperate with this committee. I 
am hoping that this practice is going to change. 

Mr. Scherer. Who does the blacklisting? "Wlio blacklists you? 

Mr. Greene. Well, the employer 

Mr. Scherer. Let us get it straight first. 

You have not been blacklisted as you said you were in your opening 
testimony ? 

Mr. Greene. I didn't say that, Mr. Scherer. You are confusing this 
with the testimony of the previous witness. 

Mr. MourjJER. Very well, let us go back to the beginning of the 
testimony of the witness. 

Mr. Scherer. He said it. 

Mr. Doyle. Let's have the reporter read it. 

Mr. Greene. I think Mr. Scherer is confusing the testimony of the 
previous witness, 

A Voice. It was a previous witness. I heard it. 

Mr. Moulder. We will suspend the proceedings, and the reporter 
will read the beginning of the testimony of this witness. 

("Wliereupon, the reporter read from his notes as follows:) 

'"Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occui)ation or profession ? 

"Mr. Greene. Musician." 

Mr. Doyle. Then I am in error, and wish to acknowledge it. I see 
here my note is under Milton Kestenbaum instead of under Greene. 

I extend apologies. 

Mr. Scherer. You said musicians had been blacklisted just now. 

Mr. Greene. Many witnesses have been ; musicians, actors. 

Mr. Scherer. Who blacklists them ? 

Mr. Greene. The emploj^er through the pressure that this commit- 
tee exerts upon them. 

Mr. Scherer. Can you give us the names of any who have been 
blacklisted? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

I refrain from naming names, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask you to direct the witness to answer. 

Here is a charge that employers have blacklisted witnesses. 

Mr. Greene. There are ti'anscri])ts of the records of the hearings of 
this committee of many j^eople wlio have been compelled to appear 
befoi-e it who are no longer practicing their profession as a direct 
consequence of being subpenaed before this committee, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Is it a direct consequence of their being subpenaed 
before this committee or is it because their Communist Party member- 
ship was disclosed? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3747 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Scherer, because 
it would incriminate me, and I refuse on the basis of the first and fifth 
amencbnents. 

INIr. Moulder. Were you born and reared in this country as a 
natural-born American citizen? 

Mr. Greexe. I was. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you married ? 

Mr. Greene. I am, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. How long did you serve in the Armed Forces? 

Mr. Greene. 31/^ years. 

Mr. Moulder. In the event of a conflict or war between Russia and 
this country Mould you again willingly, sincerely, conscientiously serve 
in the Armed Forces of this country ? 

Mr. Greene. I would defend my country against any aggressor. 

Mr. Moulder. In the event of a Avar you would fight for your 
country ? 

Mr. Greene. I would, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Right or wrong ? 

(The Avitness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman, you asked me in the event of war 
against this country. I stated that I would fight against any aggressor 
against this Nation. 

Mr. Scherer. Suppose, in your opinion, this country was the aggres- 
sor? Would you fight for this country? 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

My. Scherer. I noticed you qualified your statement by saying that 
in any event you would fight if this country were not the aggressor. 

Mr. Greene. My own feelings, jVIr. Scherer, are that these Congress- 
men, myself, we all good Americans are going to fight for peace. 
They are not concerning themselves with war. 

Mr. Moulder, ^fay I proceed witli my questions. 

As stated by Mr, Scherer, the question that comes about is that 
you might, in the event of war between Russia and the United States, 
arrive at an opinion that we were the aggressor and not Russia ; and 
it might be my opinion that we were defending our country from 
aggression. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman, this question is very hypothetical. 

Mr. MouiJ^ER. You are bitterlj^ complaining about the possibility 
that you might lose 3'our 

Mr. Greene. I don't think hypothetical questions have a place in 
these hearings. 

Mr. Moulder. You are complaining about the possibility that you 
might lose your position of employment. I think it is a shame and 
a pitiful situation that because a man of j^our talent, your background 
and your ability as a great artist and a musician — and you and musi- 
cians such as you have made great contributions to our country in that 
connection — that merely because you come here and appear before 
this committee you lose your employment. That is a deplorable situ- 
ation which I oppose, and all of us on this committee discourage and 
oppose. 

Please. We will have no more demonstrations. 



3748 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Now you have an opportunity to clear and redeem yourself, and 
you have been reluctant so far to take advantage of this opportunity. 
That I regret very much. 

Mr. Greene. I question, Mr. Chairman, the need or the basis for 
stating that I have to redeem myself. I don't agree. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you a member of the Communist Party during 
the time you were in the Army ? 

Mr. Greene. I have answered that question. 

Mr. Moui.der. No ; you didn't answer that question. 

Mr, Greene. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you now a member of the Communist Party or a 
member of any subversive activity ? 

Mr. Greene. I refuse for the same reason, sir. And before 

Mr. Doyle. May I just make this one observation : We as American 
Congressmen are in this position : 

Our United States Congress has declared, on several occasions, that 
the Communist Party in the United States is part and parcel of an 
international conspiracy. That is clear, isn't it ? You know that, don't 
you, Mr. Greene? I am sure you know that. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. Not only that but our highest courts have declared, 
time and again, tliat the Communist Party in America is a part and 
parcel of the international Communist conspiracy to eventually take 
over economic and social control of the world. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Doyle, the highest courts have also judged that 
the practice of imputing a sinister meaning to the exercise of a per- 
son's constitutional right under the fifth amendment — they have con- 
demned this practice. 

Mr. Doyle. All right, we agree with the Court's decision. We fol- 
low it. 

But my point is this : 

When you talk about patriotism we are in this position : Congress 
has declared the Communist Party to be an illegal conspiracy against 
the American form of government. Our courts have so declared. 
And yet the American citizens claim that we as American Congress- 
men are doing an injustice when we, at the direction of the United 
States Congress, hold these hearings to try and uncover the Com- 
munist conspiracy which our Congress and which our courts have 
found to exist, in order that we might better legislate to protect our 
Nation and our children against the Soviet-Communist conspiracy. 

That is what you are doing when you try to confuse this committee. 
We are bound by a patriotic duty and an official duty to the American 
citizen to follow the instruction of the United States Congress. 

You and I also know that the Communist Party in California today 
instructs its members to plead the amendments; right or wrong, to 
plead them. I know that is the instruction. I am not imputing any- 
thing to you. I am just saying that we also know a few things, 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Clark also stated, Mr. Doyle, a witness 

Mr. Doyle. We have tlie full text of that decision. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Clark 

You have had your opportunity, Mr. Doyle, to tell me what you 
think. I think it only fair to permit me to answer you. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3749 

Mr. Moulder. I think you are right. 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead. I have argued with you. 

Mr. Greene. I am reading from the Herald-Examiner 

Mr. Doyle. What date ? What decision ? 

Mr. Greene. The Slochower decision, Mr. Doyle. April 10, 1946. 

Mr. Doyle. That is the New York school case, April 9, 1956. 

Mr. Greene. That is right, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. We are familiar with that decision. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Clark stated : 

The privilege against self-incrimination would be reduced to a hollow mockery 
if its exercise could be taken as equivalent either to a confession of guilt or a 
conclusive presumption of perjury. A witness may have a reasonable fear of 
prosecution and yet be innocent of any wrongdoing. The privilege serves to 
protect the innocent who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circum- 
stances. 

Mr. Doyle. We agree with that. That is the law. But the rank 
and file of the Communist Party in California do not agree with that. 
They choose to disobey the pronouncements of the Supreme Court 
•except when they choose to. 

Mr. Greene. I think the decision speaks for itself. 

Mr. Doyle. Sure it does. We agree with that. 

Mr. Scherer, I can't say that I agree with Mr. Justice Clark. I 
will put myself of record. 

Mr. Moulder. Let us have order in the hearing room, please. 

I only have one more question to ask you. If you were granted im- 
munity by this committee, would you then answer the questions that 
have been propounded to you? 

Mr. Greene. That, too, is a liypothetical question. 

Mr. Moulder. You will wait until you come to that bridge before 
you cross it ; is that your answer ? 

Mr. Greene. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on the 
basis of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Moulder, The witness is excused. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Paul Powell. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony which you are 
about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God ? 

Mr. Powell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL POWELL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
ARTHUR A. BROOKS, JR. 

Mr. Tavenner. "WHiat is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Powell. My name is Paul Powell, P-o-w-e-1-1. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden- 
tify himself for the record. 

Mr. Brooks. Arthur A. Brooks, Jr., Beverly Hills. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Powell, you have been identified as a member 
of a group of the Communist Party composed of musicians. The com- 
mittee has learned from testimony that this group of the Communist 
Party was advised to take an active part in the work of the Independ- 
ent Progressive Party in California. 

Let me ask you first whether you were a member of such a group 
of the Communist Party? 



3750 COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Powell. Sir, I refuse, I decline to discuss my union with this 
committee, primarily. And I oo along with the thinking of Presi- 
dent Philip Murray, of the CIO, who made a very clear statement 
about your status when he said that you are the friend of the enemies 
of labor. 

Mr. Moulder. You can't accuse me of that. I have voted for every 
labor bill that came into Congress. 

Furthermore, counsel did not ask you a question about unions or the 
particular union of which you are a member. 

Therefore, I wish you would be responsive to his c^uestion and 
answer it or decline to answer for such reason as you may care to 
give. 

Mr. Powell. Well, sir, I decline to answer, but I thought I should 
give some reason for my declination. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a rule of the committee that you may state any 
legal grounds, but not argumentative grounds. 

Mr. Powell. I refuse to discuss my union with this union-bust- 
ing 

Mr. Moulder. No one is inquiring about your union. 

Mr. Powell. The question was asked me about my union. 

Mr. Moulder. No; it was not. 

Mr. Brooks. I believe he misunderstood the question. 

Will counsel restate the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was whether or not tlie identification of 
you as a member of the Conmiunist Party group composed of musi- 
cians was true. 

Mr. Powell. I decline to answer that question on the basis of the 
first supplemented by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. AlouLDER. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive directions from the Communist 
Party to participate in a plan to assist the Independent Progressive 
Party of California in various ways? 

Mr. Powell. The same answer to the same question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

Mr. Powell. I decline to answer that question on the following 
grounds — and I want to call 3'Our attention to one thing, sir 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. It will be quite adequate for you to state on the 
grounds previously assigned. 

Mr. Powell. You will find my grounds are both legal and proper. 

I want to remind you there is more than one way of throwing the 
receiver. In other words, I can tell you the legal and proper gi'ounds 
in my own waj^ I want the privilege. May I have it ? 

Mr. jNIoulder. If it is not a long discourse. 

Mr. Powell. No ; I think it is to the point. 

I decline to answer your question on the following grounds, that 
3^our question in itself is an invasion of my right to speak out without 
fear of reprisal against such tilings as the 80-percent unemployment in 
my union and the unconscionable exploitation of the musicians while 
billions upon billions of dollars are being made by the juke box 
industry. 

Further 

Mr. Tavenner. Tliis is not at all responsive. 



COMMUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3751 

Mr. Moulder. It is totally unrelated to the question. I beg you to 
be more cooperative in responding to the question by answering it or 
declining to answer for constitutional or legal reasons. 

Mr. Powell. I believe I said that my right, there was an inva- 
sion of my right to speak out. I am talking about a basic concept 
which you are very well familiar with, 

Mr. Moulder. This is not a forum to speak out your concepts. 

You are directed to answer the question. You are being given an 
opportunity to answer the question. The Chair directs you to an- 
swer it, and also warns you that in your refusal to do so, and by con- 
stantly avoiding answering the question by going into a discourse about 
some other subjects foreign and unrelated to the question, that you 
might be endangering yourself and making yourself liable for con- 
( empt proceedings. 

Therefore, I urge 3'ou again to respond to the question by answering 
it or declining to answer it for legal reasons. You are represented by 
counsel who can advise you on that point. 

Mr. Powell. Sir, may I ask you this question : 

"\Vlien I talk about the right to speak, to assemble, and associate I 
think I am on proper and legal grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. You pleaded your amendment. That is all you have to 
do, just plead the amendment. That gives you the constitutional pro- 
tection, Mr. Powell. 

Mr. Powell. Repeat the question, sir. 

Mr. Tavexner. Are you a member of the Conununist Party now? 

Mr. Powell. I decline to answer that question on the following 
grounds, that the question is an invasion of my right to associate Avith 
tliose who are trying to raise the standards of musicians, with those 
who have worked to bring a Negro and white local together in a true 
expression of democracy and an example to the world at large that 
not all Americans are like Senator Eastland. 

I decline to answer your question on the basis of the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Doyle. That is sufficient. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I desire to offer in evidence, Mr. Chairman, a photo- 
static copy of an affidavit of registration of Paul Powell, bearing date 
of March 10, 1948, hi which it is stated that he intends to affiliate witli 
the Independent Progressive Party of California, and ask that it be 
marked "Powell Exhibit Xo. l." 

I also offer in evidence an election petition for the Independent 
[Progressive Party of California, with 50 names thereon, at the end 
of which is appended an affidavit over the name of Paul Powell, bear- 
ing date the (th of February 1948, in which it is stated that he so- 
licited the sianatures on this petition, and I ask that it be marked 
"Powell Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Moulder. "Without objection, it is so ordered. 

(Powell exhibit No. 1 is similar to AVaddilove exhibit No. 1, p. 3664, 
and Powell exhibit No. 2 is similar to Waddilove exhibit No. 3, p. 3667. 
These exhibits will not be reproduced in the printed record. They are 
on file in the committee's records.) 

Mr. Tavexxer. I now desire the two documents, exhibits 1 and 2, 
he handed to the witness for his examination. 

(The documents were handed to the witness and his counsel.) 



3752 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine them, please ? My question now 
is whether or not the name Paul Powell on each of the exhibits was 
signed by you. 

Mr. Powell. Sir, I believe there is an inalienable right involved 
here, the right to petition any Government body. And you must agree 
tliat this is a basic concept. I believe every American should have 
the right to petition. 

Mr. Moulder. That is exactly right. Therefore, are you going 
to deny 

Mr. Powell. Therefore, I decline to answer this question of yours 
on the basis of the first ancl fifth amendments, because I feel that your 
question is an invasion of that right. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Powell, we have plenty of sworn testimony that 
tliese petitions, such as the one with your name on it, were circulated 
at the instance of a Communist Party cell in Los Angeles. Not ad- 
mitting you circulated the petition, although your name is on it, may 
I ask, did you hear anyone tell any of the people who signed it that 
tlie Communist Party cell was circulating it in order to create the 
]PP a legal party? 

Mr. Powell. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the first 
and supplemented by the fifth. 

Mr. Doyle. Did j^ou tell any of the people who signed it with you 
that this petition was being circulated at the instance of a Com- 
munist Party cell in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Powell. The same answer, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

I just wish to make this observation : 

I am satisfied that, even though 11,000 people in Los Angeles signed 
these petitions — the total number — that only a very, very small frac- 
tion of those 11,000 people had a ghost of an idea — they had no idea 
that this petition was to create another Community Party front. 

Mr. Powell. Congressman, may I say something ? 

Mr. Doyle. That they were being circulated by Communist Party 
members. 

Mr. Powell. Congressman Doyle, I have explicit faith in the good 
sense of the American people to choose or reject any philosophy, any 
creed, to their best advantage. 

Mr. Doyle. So do I if they have the truth and the facts, but not 
any other way ; not when the truth and facts are concealed from them. 
They are in no position to act intelligently unless they know what 
the truth is. 

When you circulated this petition, you did not give them the facts. 
That is what I criticize you for. 

Mr. Moulder. Any further questions? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Moulder. xVny questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. Just this: 

Witness, you declined to answer Mr. Tavenner's question, as to mem- 
bership in the Communist Party, by pleading the first amendment, 
saying that under the first amendment you had the right to associate 
with whomsoever you pleased. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 3753 

Mr. Powell. I thought I pleaded the first and fifth, sir. 

Mr. SciiERER. You also pleaded the fifth, I understand. You did 
that. 

But you did plead the first amendment, saying, as one of your 
grounds for refusal, that you had the right to associate with whomso- 
ever you pleased. 

Do you conceive that the first amendment of the Constitution gives 
you the right to associate yourself and be a party to an organization 
that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States 
by force and violence, if necessary ? 

Mr. Powell. Are you finished, sir ? 

Mr. SciiERER. Yes. 

Mr. Powell. I would like to tell you this, that this committee has 
created and subscribed to a magnification and exaggeration of the 
threat to the security of our country to such an extent beyond all rea- 
sonable proportion where the people have become fearful to express 
themselves. I think this is a very dangerous thing when people start 
looking over their shoulders and guarding every word they say. 

You have created something which, in effect, is undermining the 
very thing you say you are upholding. 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me go back. 

The Congress — not this committee but the Congress as a whole, the 
Supreme Court and the circuit court of appeals and a number of dis- 
trict courts — have said that the Communist Party in this country, as 
Mr. Doyle said before, is not a political party as we know political 
parties, but it is part and parcel of an international Communist con- 
spiracy dedicated to the overthrow of all non-Communist countries 
by force and violence, if necessary. 

You refused to answer Mr. Tavenner's question as to your member- 
ship in the Communist Party because you said that the first amendment 
gives you the right to associate with whomsoever you please. 

Now my question was — and you have not answered it — whether you 
believe that the first amendment gives you the right to membership in 
the Communist Party, an organization which is dedicated to the over- 
throw of this Government and all the governments of all non-Com- 
munist countries, by force and violence if necessary. And you con- 
ceive the first amendment gives you that right of association? 

Mr. Powell. I am here under compulsion. 

Mr. ScHERER. I understand that. 

Mr. Powell. I decline to answer that question on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. When you plead the first amendment in refusing to 
answer Mr. Tavenner's question, you, in effect, say that you interpret 
the first amendment of the Constitution as giving you the right to 
associate with the Communist conspiracy. 

Now the first amendment obviously does not give you that right. 

Mr. Moulder. Any further questions ? 

Mr. ScHERER. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that you announce 
that all other witnesses subpenaed for today return here by noon to- 
morrow, the afternoon session tomorrow. 



3754 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Moulder. All persons in the hearing room heard the announce- 
ment by counsel. 

The Chair repeats tliat announcement, that all witnesses who were 
subpenaed for attendance here today before the committee are re- 
quested to appear here in the hearing room for appearance before the 
committee tomorrow afternoon at 1 : 30 p. m. 

The committee will stand in recess until 9 : 30 a. m. in the morning. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 25 p. m., Monday, April 16, 1956, the committee 
was recessed, to be reconvened at 9 : 30 a. m., Tuesday, April 17, 1956, 
Representatives Moulder, Doyle, and Scherer being present at the 
taking of the recess.) 

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