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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the Buffalo, N.Y., area. Hearings"

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HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA— PART 2 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE or REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



OCTOBER 3 AND 4, 1957 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 



INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
97795 V7ASHINGTON : 1957 



HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY 

DEPOSITED DY THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

EDWIN E, WILLIS, Louisiana ROBERT J. McINTOSH, MicMgan 

RiCHABD Abens, Director 

n 



CONTENTS 



PART 1 

Page 

Synopsis vii 

October 2, 1957: Testimony of— 

Charles V. Regan (resumed) * 1604 

Charles T. Asque 1631 

Edward A. Wolkenstein 1638 

Afternoon session: 

Winthrop H. Phelps 1645 

Sidney Herbert Ingerman 1650 

David Martin Brownstone 1666 

Gilbert Cohen 1676 

James Annaccone 1685 

Julian Chazin 1691 

Gerald Thorner 1693 

Everett Sheldon Jones 1699 

Alexander Salmin 1701 

PART 2 

October 3, 1957: 

William H. Nuchow 1705 

Joseph Green 1712 

Joseph A. Chatley : 1716 

Joseph Green (resumed) 1716 

Joseph A. Chatley (resumed) 1717 

Max Stein "_ 1730 

Sam Brook 1735 

Miroslaw Bogdon Zelman 1741 

Afternoon session: 

Joseph C. S:ioli 1745 

Helen Mintz 1753 

Loyd E. Kinsey 1754 

Helen Mintz (resumed) 1755 

Loyd E. Kinsey (resumed) 1757 

Helen Mintz (resumed) 1758 

Loyd E. Kinsey (resumed) 1763 

Israel Levine 1 767 

Vincent Parile 1771 

Floyd F. Fried 1772 

Irving R. Cohen 1774 

October 4, 1957: 

Arthur Bolton 1779 

Hattie Lumpkin 1784 

Beverly Levine (Mrs. Israel Levine) 1787 

Ruth I. Bolton (Mrs. Arthur Bolton) 1789 

Frances L. Clune 1792 

Sylvia To'iin 1795 

Milton Rogovin 1799 

Nancy Hull Salmin (Mrs. Alexander Salmin) 1802 

Betty Thorner (Mrs. Gerald Thorner) 1804 

Index i 

1 See also Investigation of Communist Propaganda in the United States— Pt. 8 (Buffalo, N. Y„ area) 
October 1, 1957. 

UI 



Public Law 601, T9th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee of Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommit- 
tee, is autliorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee ; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent re- 
ports and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch 
of the Government. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE S5TH CONGRESS 
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1957 

' ' •'' * * * * • * 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 

****** 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 
******* 

•• Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

******* 

26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee ; and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by 
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA— PART 2 



THURSDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1957 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee or the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Bujfalo.N.Y. 
public hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m., in room 600, United States Courthouse, 
Hon. Edwin E. Willis, chairman, presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of 
Louisiana, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Staff members present: Richard Arens, director, and George C. 
Williams and W. Jackson Jones, investigators. 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will come to order. 

Counsel will call his first witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. William Nuchow, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. NucHow. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM (H.) NTJCHOW, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, MARTIN R. BRADLEY, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please have a seat. Kindly identify yourself by name, 
residence, and occupation. 

Mr. Nuciiow. William Nuchow, age 29, Boston, Mass., union 
organizer. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Nuchow, in response to 
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. NucHOW. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. NucHOw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Bradley. Martin R. Bradley, Jr., 900 Ellicott Square, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, Mr. Nuchow ? 

Mr. NucHOw. United Furniture Workers Union, AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you maintained that employment ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOw. Approximately 6 months. 

1705 



1706 COMMUNIST AcnvrriES in the buffaix), n. y., area 

Mr. Arens. In what area are you employed ? 

Mr. NucHOw. In the New England area, mainly Boston, Mass. 

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity ? 

Mr. NucHOw. International representative. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere were you employed immediately prior to your 
present employment ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. INIr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you told this 
committee truthfully where you were employed prior to your present 
employment, you would be giving information which might be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHow. Mr. Chairman, on that question, by answering that 
question, that might bring to me some false accusation against me, 
and I refuse to answer that particular question. 

Mr. Arens. Would any action instituted against you of a criminal 
nature, criminal proceeding, involving any Communist activities, or 
alleged Communist activities by yourself, be a false action? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHow. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question. I 
take the fifth amendment on that. 

Mr. Arens. Which provision of the fifth amendment ? 

Counsel, may I suggest that you might want to confer with him 
and be sure that his answers are what he would normally intend. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Ntjchow. On the provisions, sir, that taking witness against 
myself which might impede my character, on those provisions I refuse 
to answer that particular question. 

Mr. Arens. I still think this record ought to be clear, Mr. Nuchow. 
Do you honestly feel that if you answered this last principal question 
truthfully, you would be giving information which could be used 
against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

I suggest you confer with your counsel at this time. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHow. By answering that question, it might lead to some 
false prosecution against me, and I still remain and take the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Let's get right to the point. Are you a Communist ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHow. Mr. Chairman, I am not now a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party any time 
in the course of the last year ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nuchow. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds the same as before, the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N, Y., AREA 1707 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party any time 
in the course of the last 6 months ? 

Mr. NucHOw. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. On the same grounds, I take it ? 

Mr. NucHOW. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party any time 
in the course of the last month? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
sir, 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party any time 
during the period after you received your subpena to appear before 
this Committee on Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party 3 days 
ago? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party yester- 
day? 

Mr. NucHOW. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you disassociate yourself from technical mem- 
bership in the Communist Party 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question, sir, for the same 
grounds, 

Mr, Arens. Excuse me until I complete my question, please. 

Mr. NucHOW. Sure. 

Mr. Arens. Did you dissassociate yourself from technical member- 
ship in the Communist Party in the course of the last several days, 
solely and exclusively so that you could take an oath before this com- 
mittee without fear of perjury and say that you are not now a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHow. Mr. Chairman, on that previous question, I would 
state that my withdrawal from the Communist Party has nothing 
to do with the hearing for today concerning myself. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you withdraw from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness has 
opened the door to this inquiry himself. He has said, "My with- 
drawal from the Communist Party has nothing to do with this pro- 
ceeding today." That was the essence of his answer. I, therefore, 
respectfully suggest the witness now be ordered and directed to tell 
this committee while he is under oath when he withdrew from the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Willis. You are so directed. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOw. Mr. Chairman, my nonmembership in the Com- 
munist Party is not related to the hearing for today. I refuse to 
answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest this rec- 
ord be abundantly clear. 

Mr. Witness, you have said in the last several minutes that your 
withdrawal from the Communist Party had nothing to do with this 



1708 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

proceeding here today. I then ask you when you withdrew from the 
Communist Party. I made it clear to you that you have initia,ted 
this area of inquiry by referring on your own volition to your with- 
drawal from the Communist Party. 

The pending question is : When did you withdraw from the Com- 
munist Party? You are under a mandate and instruction from the 
chairman of this subcommittee to answer that question. Will you 
answer that question ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you completely, irrevocably, finally disassociated 
yourself from the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. Mr. Chairman, my answer is "Yes," definitely yes. 

Mr. Arens. Are you under Communist Party discipline ? 

Mr. NucHOW. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOw. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have some clarifica- 
tion of that last question, please. 

Mr. Arens. Are you for the Communist Party or against it ? You 
withdrew from it, you said. Now we want to know whether or not 
you are for it or against it. 

Mr. NucHOW. I am in disagreement completely with the program 
and the policies of the Communist Party. That means I am against 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. When did you arrive at that complete disagreement 
with the program of the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the grounds I said before. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest this witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Willis. Yes. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. NucHOW. Mr, Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you presently have information respecting the cur- 
rent — and by current, I mean in the course of the last month or so — 
operations of any facet of the Communist Party in the United States ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. Mr. Chairman, will you please repeat the question? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Reporter, read the question, please. 

(Record read by reporter.) 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nuciiow. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born? 

Mr. Nuciiow. June 15, 1928, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education. 

Mr. Nuciiow. I completed high school and 1 year of college. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you go to college ? 

Mr. NucHow. Oswego State Teachers College, Oswego, N. Y. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1709 

Mr. Arens. When did you complete your year of college ? 

Mr. NucHOW. I think in June 1949. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. NucHOw. June 1949. 

Mr. Arens. What was your first principal employment after you 
completed your education in 1949? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NuciiOAV. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. How long did this first principal employment endure? 

Mr. NucHOw. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Arens. You have not declined ? I am uncertain that the record 
shows your declination to answer the question. How long did your 
employment endure? 

Mr. Nucnow. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be directed and ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer the question. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nucnow. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer this question on 
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Witness, I want this record to be clear on 
another matter. You have told us that you disassociated yourself 
from the Communist Party ; have you not ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]\Ir. SciiERER. I think that is clear. 

Mr. Nucnow. Mr. Chairman, I am not now a member of the Com- 
munist Party, and I refuse to testify about the past. 

Mr. Arens. I did not ask you that, sir. 

Mr. Nuciiow. Repeat the question, tlien. 

Mr. Arens. You told us that you left the Communist Party, or dis- 
associated yourself from the Communist Party. That is a matter of 
sworn testimony on this record in the course of the last several minutes. 

I want to ask you now: Were you ever a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

(AVitness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nucnow. Mr. Chairman, 1 refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your connection with the Com- 
munist Party from which you disassociated yourself, according to 
your own testimony ? 

Mr. Nucnow. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. What was your next principal emplo}^ment after 
this employment that you can't tell us about without giving infor- 
mation that could be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Nucnow. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have a subsequent employment ? 

Mr. Nucnow. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any employment in which you have been 
en^raged since you left school in 1949 until your present employment, 
which you can tell this committee about without giving iniormation 
which could be used in a criminal proceeding ? 



1710 COMMUNIST AcnvrriES in the buffalo, n. y., area 

Mr. NucHOw. Mr. Chairman, again I refuse to answer that ques- 
tion on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that that is a 
very fair question. A truthful answer to that question could not 
possibly cause this witness to be incriminated. 

I respectfully request, therefore, that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer if there is any employment in which he has 
engaged since 1949 concerning which he can tell us without giving 
information which might be used against him in a criminal pro- 
ceeding. 

Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer the question. 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. Mr. Chairman, on the period of time between 1949 
and the present employment, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Were you one of Jimmy Hoffa's boys up until about 
6 months ago ? 

Mr. NucHOw. I refuse to answer that question on the first and 
fif til amendments. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact, that up until just a few months ago, you were one of 
the Communist organizers in the employ of the teamsters union. 
If that is not so, deny it while you are under oath. 

Mr. NucHOw. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Jimmy Hoff a ? 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Ntjchgw. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you mean to say that if you tell us whether you 
know Jimmy Hoff a that might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. NucHOW. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Scherer. Maybe he is pleading it correctly. 

Mr. Arens. Who was your supervisor, or who was your boss — we 
will put it that way, in common parlance — in the job you had immedi- 
ately prior to the assumption of your present job as international 
organizer of the United Furniture Workers ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Was it Jimmy Hoff a ? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Now tell us the organizations to which you have be- 
longed of the nonsensitive variety in the course of the last few years. 
By nonsensitive, I mean non-Communist organizations. 

Mr. NucHOw. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. You did not let him finish, Mr. Arens. I did not 
hear the reasons he gave. 

Mr. NucHow. Mr. Chairman, I stated my reason. I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the same grounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1711 

Mr. ScHERER. Does that include the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. NucHow. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Does that include the self-incrimination provision of 
the fifth amendment ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You were active in the Young Progressives of America ; 
were you not ? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Weren't you treasurer of the National Association for 
the Advancement of Colored People at Oswego ? 

Mr. NucHOW. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you active in the Labor Youth League ? 

Mr. NucHow. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You told us a little while ago that you disassociated 
yourself from the Communist Party. I conclude from your testimony 
that that has been in the recent past. You told us, in effect, that you 
were now against the Communist Party. What can you do to help this 
committee in its efforts to combat the Communist operation in this 
country? Is there anything you can do to help us along that line, 
in furtherance of your own expressed desire to help fight the Com- 
munist menace ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. I have nothing to say concerning that to this com- 
mittee whatsoever. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been to the Federal Bureau of Investigation 
and told them anything that would, in your judgment, help combat 
the Communist Party, which you say you now are against ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. I have not, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you propose to do so ? 

Mr. NucHOW. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today as an involuntary witness 
under subpena ; are you not ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOW. Well, if that is the position of the record here, it is as 
clear for you as it is clear for me. 

Mr. Arens. I just want the record to be clear that you are not 
volunteering your statements here. 

Mr. Scherer. I think that is clear. Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been instructed, while you were a Com- 
munist, to infiltrate the legitimate non-Communist organizations? 

Mr. NucHOw. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Who is your present supervisor ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. NucHOw. Mr. Pizer, Morris Pizer. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist as of the time you assumed 
your present duties as international organizer of the United Furni- 
ture Workers of America ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 



1712 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Nucriow. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment as international organizer of the 
United Furniture Workers of America procured for you by any person 
known by you to be a Communist? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nucnow. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your disassociation from your last previous 
employment ? 

Mr. Nuciiow. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You were not fired for being a Communist; were you? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nuciiow. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Charles Eegan? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nuciiow. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment, first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Joseph Chatlev^ 

Mr. Nuciiow. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr, Rradley. May I confer for a moment? 

Mr. Arens. Surely. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Nuciiow. Mr. Chairman, just to have the record clear, I re- 
ceived a subpena to appear here this morning and all my answers have 
been voluntarily from me, but I am not compelled to answer all the 
questions, as you said before. I just want to have the record clear 
that I was subpenaed to be here. I was volunteering as much as I 
could volunteer to my questions. 

Mr. Arens. No further questions. 

ISfr. Willis. You are excused. 

]\Ir. Arens. The next witness, if the chairman please, will be Mr. 
Joseph Green. 

INIr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
trutli, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Green. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH GREEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
EDWARD S. SPECTOR 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 
]Mr. Green. IVIy name is Joseph Green, 27li/^ East Utica Street. 
Mr. Arens. I clon't believe I heard your occupation. 
Mr. Green. I^aborer. 
Mr. Arens. Where, please? 

Mr. Green. In the fabricating plant in Tonawanda, N, Y. 
Mr. Arens. The name of the plant, please? 
ISIr. Green. Buffalo Steel. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVrTIES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1713 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities? 

Mr. Green. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient for you to put your hand down? 
It is difficult for us to hear you. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Green. Yes. 

;Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. SrECTOR. Edward S. Spector, 333 Ellicott Square Building, 
Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at the present place 
where you work? 

(AVitness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Green. About 4I/2 years or a little better. 

Mr. Arens. And where were you employed prior to that time? 
(Witness conferred witli liis counsel.) 

Mr. GpvEen. Mr. Chairman, I take the fifth amendment on that 
question, and refuse to answer on the grounds that it might incrimi- 
nate me in some sliape or form. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you employed prior to your present 
employment at the job concerning which you cannot tell us without 
giving information which could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. On the same gromids, Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer 
that question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of a labor organization? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. I am. 

Mr. Arens. What organization ? 

Mr. Green. Local 2121 of the United Steelworkers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held any office? 

Mr. Green. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Haven't you been a steward? 

Mr. Green. Never have. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a shop steward? 

Mr. Green. Never have. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in Local 1198 ? 

Mr. Green. No ; I never have. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been active in the National Negro Labor 
Council ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

ISIr. Arens. Have you ever been a candidate for public office? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Can you help us, please ? Have you ever been a candi- 
date for public office? 

(AVitness conferred with his coimsel.) 

Mr. Green. I don't recall, Mr. Chairman. 

!Mr. Arens. Weren't you a candidate at one time for Congress — in 
1936? 



1714 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Green. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, be- 
cause it slips my recollection if it is true because that has been a pretty 
good while ago ; and on the same grounds of the fifth amendment I re- 
fuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Aeens. We would like to lay before you now a photostatic copy 
of the Communist Daily Worker of August 7, 1936, in which an article 
appears, Mayor Tries To Prevent C. P. Meeting in Portland. It is 
about a Buffalo session, a radio session, and this article states Joseph 
Green, Communist candidate for Congressman in the 42d Congres- 
sional District, will speak at a specified time. 

Kindly look at this article from the Communist Daily Worker and 
see if that refreshes your recollection with respect to your aspirations 
for public service. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Green. I refuse to answer the question, Mr. Chairman, on the 
same grounds. 

(Document marked " Green Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. ScHERER. He refused to answer the question that he was a can- 
didate for Congress on the grounds 

Mr. Arens. On the Communist ticket. 

Mr. ScHERER. I see. 

Mr. Arens. Weren't you on the State committee of the Communist 
Party in New York? 

Mr. Green. On the same grounds and for the same reasons, Mr. 
Chairman, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens, I would like to lay before you now information from 
the Daily Worker of August 31, 1942, in which this publication lists 
the 40 named to the Communist Party State Committee of New York, 
including Joseph Green, Erie County. Please look at that publica- 
tion and see if that might refresh your recollection with respect to 
your career in 1942. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Could you help us on that, please? 

Mr. Green. You asked me a question? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Is this true and correct, the account in the Com- 
munist Daily Worker with reference to yourself being a member? 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question. 

(Document marked "Green Exhibit No. 2," and retained in commit- 
tee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you been active — we are moving now along in 
your life, in your career, to 1950. Do you recall any activity by your- 
self in a Civil Rights Committee in February of 1950, or there- 
abouts ? 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer the question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to lay before you now a thermofax copy of 
an article from the Buffalo Evening News (February 18, 1950) with 
reference to a Red-tinged group which, according to the article, is 
protesting police bias. Among the group that is protesting the police 
bias here in the Buffalo area is listed Joseph Green, who is connected, 
apparently, with a Civil Rights Committee, and who is described 
here as having been for 18 years a member of the Communist Party. 



COMMUlSnST ACTIVITIES JN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 1715 

Kindly look at that article and see if that might refresh your recol- 
lection with respect to your past activities in 1950. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. Will you ask that question again, please ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Does that refresh your recollection with reference 
to those activities ? 

Mr. Green, I refuse to answer the question. I decline to answer 
the question. 

(Document marked "Green Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. We would like to display to you now still another 
document. It is a thermofax reproduction of a bulletin of the Na- 
tional Negro Labor Council, in which you are listed as a vice presi- 
dent of the Buffalo Council of the National Negro Labor Council. 

Look at that document, please, and see if that might refresh your 
recollection with reference to your connection with that organiza- 
tion. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Scherer. The National Negro Labor Council, I believe, has 
been cited — yes, it has — as a Communist-front organization. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

(Document marked "Green Exhibit No. 4," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Were you active in this community in the Progressive 
Party? 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, this minute, a Communist ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. I am not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. And when did this status come about ? 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party yester- 
day? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. On the same grounds, I decline to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Arens. You say you are not a member of the Communist Party 
today. Were you a member yesterday ? 

I want to make sure that the record is clear on this. 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you completely out of the Communist Party, com- 
pletely disassociated from it? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Do you propose to get back in the party tomorrow? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you propose to get back in the party just as soon as 
you walk out the door and can do so after this hearing is over ? 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Chairman. 

97795— 57— pt 2 2 



1716 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

;Mr. Arens. A^Hiy ? 

;Mr. Green. Fifth Amendment. 

;Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Charles Refjan ? 

]\Ir. Green. Again, I decline to answer the question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Loyd Kinsey? 

Mr. Green. For the same reason, I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Joseph Chatley ? 

Mr. Green. For the same reason, I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in the pres- 
ence of this witness, Mr. Chatley now be sworn. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear, sir, that the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Chatley. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH A. CHATLEY 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Chatley. My name is Joseph A. Chatley. I reside at 113 Mc- 
Kinley Parkway, Buffalo, and at the present time I have a part-time 
job as a gasoline station attendant. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chatley, I intend to interrogate you at length in 
a little while; but for the present purpose, have you ever been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What period of time were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Chatley. From 1949 on for a period of about 3i/^ years. 

Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party, did you have occasion to know as a Communist a per- 
son by the name of Joseph Green ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you see that person in the hearing room or in the 
courtroom here today ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly point him out to the committee. 

Mr. Chatley. This gentleman here, the previous witness. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH GREEN— Resumed 

Mr. Arens. You have just heard the testimony of Mr. Chatley in 
which he has identified you under oath as a person known by him to 
have been a Communist. We want to give you an opportunity to 
deny that identification if you care to do so, if you want to avail 
yourself of that opportunity. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Green. What is the question, Mr. Chairman? "What is the 
question ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you want to deny the identification of Mr. Chatley 
that he knew you as a Communist ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREIA 1717 

Mr. Green. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the stafl" interrogation of Joseph Green. 

We would like now to proceed to the interrogation of Joseph 
Chatley. 

]\Ir. Willis. The witness is excused. 

We will take a 5-minute recess at this point. 

^ Short recess.) 

(Mr. Willis and Mr. Scherer were present at the time of recess.) 

(Reconvening after the recess, the following members of the com- 
mittee were present : Mr. Willis and Mr. Scherer.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will come to order. 

Counsel will call the next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chatley, kindly resume the witness stand. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH A. CHATLEY— Resumed 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chatley, so that this record at this point may be 
clear, may I ask you if you would again give us your identification 
and a word respecting the period of your service in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Chatley. ]\fy actual period of service in the Communist Party 
as a member was approximately 3^/2 years. 

]\Ir. Arens. From when to when, please, sir ? 

Mr. Chatley. From 1949 to close to 1953. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chatley, so this record may be absolutely clear 
on this point, your service in the Communist Party was to serve your 
Government at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, was 
it not ? 

Mr. Chatley. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And during all that period of time, you were procuring 
information for that great agency of this Government respecting the 
operation of the Communist Party here ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr, Arens. You were not, in truth and in fact, in sympathy with 
the movement with which you were identified; is that correct? 

Mr. Chatley. No; I had provided information for the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation for a long period of time previous to my 
becoming a member of the party. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chatley, you have been in consultation with us 
informally in sessions in Washington, at which time we have elicited 
from you considerable information on a broader scale ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I should like, therefore, to confine your testimony today 
to a number of specifics which relate, and which are germane, just to 
the area of inquiry which we have in mind here. 

I should like you, therefore, if you would, please, to give us just 
the units of the Communist Party with which you were associated 
during this period of your service at the behest of the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation. 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. At the time that I became a member of the 
party, I was instructed to work with two groups. One was the labor 
group which involved a number of sections, and with the political 
group which, at that time, inasmuch as the Communist Party had 



1718 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFAI/), N. Y., AREA 

gone underground, they had moved in upon the American Labor Party 
and had taken it over. I was to work with the head officials in Erie 
County of the American Labor Party. 

Mr. Arens. And did you, in the course of your career in the Com- 
munist Party, work with any other group or groups ? 

Mr. Chatlet. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I sliould like to have you refer to those groups. 

Mr. Chatlet. One group was known as the University of Buffalo 
Group, or U. B. Group. 

Mr. Arens. Of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Chatley. That is right. Another was established a short time 
after I joined the party. It was a group of several front organizations, 
all promoting peace. 

Mr. Willis. Ostensibly, that is. 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Now another group ? 

Mr. Chatley. At various times, for a matter of probably 3 or 4 
days or a week, I would be sent in at odd times to work with the 
Labor Youth League and with various officers of the other organiza- 
tions, such as the IWO, the International Workers Order, and prac- 
tically anything in the line of a front group at that time which the 
organization was pushing. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any other principal groups with which you 
worked ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us just their names, please. 

Mr. Chatley. This group did not have a local organization here; 
but my name had been submitted by Mr. Emanuel Fried, regional offi- 
cer of the United Electrical AVorkers, to make a trip into the Soviet 
Union under the auspices of the American Committee To Survey 
Labor Conditions in Europe. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another group ? 

Apparently, Mr. Chatley, you were in the Communist Party shift- 
ing from one group to another, is that correct ? 

Mr. Chatley. M}^ instructions at the time I was accepted as a 
member were that I should not openly admit membership in the party, 
and that I should operate entirely under cover; that I should work 
where I was assigned, and that if I were questioned as to membership 
in the Communist Party, I must deny it. 

Mr. Willis. Instructions from the Communists? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Willis. So you were an undercover-undercover operator ? 

Mr. Chatley. These instructions were given me by John Noto and 
Al Lutsky. 

Mr. Arens. You were an FBI undercover operator, operating in the 
undercover operations of the Communist Party, is that correct! 

Mr. Chatley. It was a little confusing; that is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have a Communist Party card ? 

Mr. Chatley. No ; those were done away with several years before. 
It was explained to me by Mrs. Frances Clune that carrying such a 
card would only put me in the hands of the FBI. 

Mr. Arens. There has been a little confusion — or I would suggest 
deliberate attempts at confusion — in the course of these hearings, with 



COMMUlSnST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1719 

reference to membership, the technical term "membership," in the 
Communist Party, by a number of people, as I am sure you recognized, 
because of your attendance at these hearings the last few days. 

Does the Communist Party have membership records like the Rotary 
Club, the Kiwanis, or the Lions ? 

Mr. Chatley. Not since they went underground. There may be 
such records, but they are not readily available to the membership of 
the party. 

Mr. Arens. Is much distinction made between a Communist and a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Chatley. Not insofar as I can see. 

Mr. Arens. So when a Communist just says, "I was a member yes- 
terday," or at least would not tell us whether or not he was a member 
yesterday, but says very emphatically, "I am not a member today," 
does it mean much ? 

Mr. Chatley. Not in my opinion. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, conspirators do not publicize their 
identification with a conspiratorial apparatus; is that correct? 

Mr. Chatley. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. How then, Mr. Chatley, on the basis of your back- 
ground and experience, is an identification of a Communist possible? 
How do you determine who is a Communist ? 

Mr. Chatley. My identification, which might differ from others, 
came through instructions that were given to me : I must never dis- 
cuss the party plans or my instructions with anyone except the 
people I was authorized to discuss them with, and that those would 
be trusted party members with a long period of service. With 
no one else was I permitted to discuss the operations that I was 
engaged in. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, for one person who has been in the 
apparatus to make an identification of another person in the ap- 
paratus, he is limited by the fact that there is a cutout system? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And his identification can come exclusively by know- 
ing who worked in the apparatus; is not that correct? 

Sir. Chatley. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. There is no formal ceremony as there might be if 
3^ou joined the Masonic lodge or joined the church, is there? 

Mr. Chatley. No. I was required to agree that I would faitli- 
fully carry out every order that was given to me without question 
and to the best of my ability. 

Mr. Arens. With that little bit of background, Mr. Chatley, I 
should like to ask you, please, if you would help us by telling us the 
names of persons who, to your certain knowledge, were Commu- 
nists, were in the apparatus, were members of the Communist Party, 
behind which operates the facade of an internationally controlled 
conspiracy. You have conferred with us repeatedly in staff con- 
ferences; and we have, as you know, informally received from you 
considerable information. But we should like to have now, under 
oath, your positive identification of certain persons. 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a man by the name 
of James Annaccone ? 

Mr. Chatley. James Annaccone ; yes, I did. 



1720 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFAIX), N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Just a word of description of him, please. 

Mr. CiiATLEY. At the time that I became a member of the Com- 
munist Party, James Annaccone was the Erie County chairman 
of the American Labor Party. I was instructed to work with James 
and Marguerite Annaccone — — 

Mr. Willis. Is that his wife ? 

Mr. Chatley. That is his wife. And I was instructed that I could 
discuss party operations with them freely. 

Mr. Arens. And did you do so ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your experience and intimate knowl- 
edge of the techniques of the Communist Party, do you here and now, 
while you are under oath, identify James and Marguerite Annaccone 
as persons who, to you certain knowledge, were Communists? 

Mr. Chatley, Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name of 
Charles Asque? 

Mr.CnATLEY. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word of description of Charles T. Asque. 

Mr. Chatley. I was told that Mr. Asque was a longtime member 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. "Where did he work? 

Mr. Chatley. At that time he was some kind of union steward, 
or such, at Republic Steel Corp. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere? 

Mr. Chatley. In Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know in like manner as a Communist a per- 
son by the name of Richard Baum? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us where he worked. 

Mr. Chatley. I do not know the name of the place where he worked, 
but he did tell me one time that lie was some kind of draftsman, 
and stated that he liad refused flatly to do any drafting on work 
which might be used in the Korenn war. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us what lie did in the party? I do not 
mean a description of all kinds of activities, but just a connection or 
identification. 

Mr. Chatley. He was a rather elderly gentleman and hard of hear- 
ing. PTe wore a hearing aid. He was respected by all the Commu- 
nists. They admired him greatly. 

It was reported to me by Michael and Frances Clune that, because 
of his age, it could not be expected that he would be in the forefront 
of picket lines or such things of that type. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliat did he do? Just a word of identification. 

Mr. Chatley. He attended meetings as per instructions, when 
they wanted to build up a meeting and ffive it a sort of semblance of 
respectability. You could depend on Mr. Baum and his wife being 
present. Such as the peace groups, tlie ALP, and the like. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in like manner know as a Communist, Arthur 
Bolton ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes; Arthur Bolton was a very active Communist. 

Mr. Arens. Where was he employed ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1721 

Mr. Chatley. I believe at the time it was the J. H. Williams Corp. 
I am not certain about that. 

Mr. Arens. In the Buffalo area? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Aeens. Did you know in like manner as a Communist a man 
by the name of Ted Buczek ? 

Mr. Chatley. Ted Buczek. I was sent by the party 

Mr. Arens. Could you answer the question first ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

Mr. Chatley. I was sent by the party to Eochester, N. Y. At that 
time the UE was trying to organize and take away from another union 
a group known as the East Eochester Car Shops. The instructions 
that I had received were that I would be driven to Eochester, N. Y., 
and there put in contact with Mr. and Mrs. Buczek and that they 
would conduct me to this group of approximately 75 persons where I 
was to deliver a lecture. 

The important part of my lecture was to be to impress upon the 
people present the desirability of securing representation through one 
of the greatest of American democratic labor unions, the United Elec- 
trical Workers Independent. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that we have, in informal 
conferences, been over much of the detail. 

I only want to proceed here, if we may — because of the limitations 
of time — with the specifics on your identification of Mr. Buczek 
while under oath before this committee. 

Wliere was he employed ? 

Mr. Chatley. He was an organizer, at that time, for UE. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know in like manner as a Communist or as 
Communists, Michael and Frances Clune ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, indeed. They were the people who brought 
me into the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. They recruited you? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Arens. Just where did they work, or where were they con- 
nected? I don't need an elaboration of their activities for the 
moment. 

Mr. Chatley. At the time, Michael Clune was an international 
organizer on the international staff of the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Chatley. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know in like manner as a Communist Julius 
Cohen ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word as to where he was connected, 
either in employment or in Communist Party work. 

Mr. Chatley. At the time, I was introduced to him under the name 
of Julius Cohen, wliich I believe to be his right name. He was in- 
troduced to me in New York City and reported to be a high-ranking 
Communist from Brooklyn. I met him probably 6 months later in 
Buffalo under the name of Jules Parris. 

At that time he was an international representative of the Ameri- 
can Communications Association, which had been ousted from the 
CIO for Communist control. 



1722 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now, please ? 

Mr. Chatley. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in like manner know as a Communist a person 
by the name of Russell J. DePasquale ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. Russell DePasquale. 

Mr, Arens. Give us, if you please, just a word as to where he was 
employed or what his connection was, to your certain knowledge, 
witliin the Communist apparatus. 

]Mr. Chatley. Employed at Bethlehem Steel Corp. 

Mr, Arens. Where? 

Mr. Chatley. At Lackawanna, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in like manner know as a Communist a person 
by the name of Charles A. Doyle ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, in like manner, just a word 
of his connection either within the Communist Party or his employ- 
ment. 

Mr. Chatley. He was a long-time member of the Communist 
Party and organizer and representative of the Gas, Coke, and Chemi- 
cal Workers, CIO, at Niagara Falls, N, Y. 

Mr. Arens. Do you happen to know where he is now ? 

Mr. Chatley. That I do not know. I know he was reported as — 
well, I guess an undesirable. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in like manner know as a Communist a person 
by the name of Johnnie Ellis ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, just a word of his employ- 
ment or connection with the Communist Party. 

Mr. Chatley. Johnnie Ellis was a woman, 

Mr. Arens. Was what ? 

]Mr. Chatley. A woman. She was the daughter of Hattie Lump- 
kin. She was married to Henry Ellis. 

At the time I first knew Jolinnie Ellis, she had been the Erie 
County secretary of the Communist Party until such time as they had 
received orders to close their office locally and go underground. Then 
she had been transferred to the New York City area. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir. 

Did you in like manner know as a Communist a person by the name 
of Ruf us Frasier ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens, Give us, please, sir, just a word about Ruf us Frasier's 
employment or connection with the party. 

Mr. Chatley. Rufus Frasier was — or had been, according to my 
informants, Michael and Frances Clune — a Communist Party mem- 
ber for a number of years previous to my becoming a member of the 
party. He was completely trustworthy, according to them, and I 
could discuss party operations with him freely. 

He succeeded James Annaccone as Erie County chairman of the 
American Labor Party. At that time it was reported to me by Frances 
Clune that it was desirable, the newspapers having brought out the 
fact that the membership, apparently, of the American Labor Party 
locally seemed to be nothing but Communists, and because of Mr. 
Annaccone's labor-union connections, they wanted him to get into 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIE'S EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1723 

the background and continue on through the labor section and stay 
away from the American Labor Party, which he did. 

Mr. Arens. Do you in like manner identify, here and now while 
you are under oath, as a Communist a person by the name of Connie 
Fried ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And Emanuel Fried ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And Floyd Fried ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Connie Fried, Emanuel Fried, and Floyd Fried? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. Concetta is the full name. She was known by 
the name of Connie. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, just a word of descriptive iden- 
tification of these three persons. 

Mr. Chatley. Emanuel J. Fried was regional representative for 
the United Electrical Workers Independent. Before their being in- 
dependent, they had been affiliated with the CIO and were ousted from 
the CIO for being a Communist-controlled international union. 

My first attention to Mr. Fried, before I knew him or before I was 
a member of the Communist Party, had been on a visit to CIO offices 
in the Root Building. I had gone there to have a discussion with Mr. 
James Miller, who at that time was secretary of the CIO Industrial 
Union Council. He was not present in his office, and I was instructed 
by one of the girls in the office to look in some of the other offices 
down the hall. 

I saw a rather good-looking, red-headed, well-dressed gentle- 
man 

Mr. Arens. I hate to interrupt but, for present purposes, I feel 
that in view of the press of time and the number of witnesses we 
have here, if I could ask you to confine your comments respecting 
these people on this public record under oath to just an identification, 
it would be better. 

Mr. Chatley. At the time of becoming a member of the part}^, my 
instructions were to take my orders in the Labor Section from Eman- 
uel J. Fried. Any time that I had copy which needed to be printed 
or duplicated on duplicating machines, I should take that copy to the 
United Electrical Workers office, turn it over to ]Mr. Fried, and he 
would see that that was done. I have taken such copies, bearing 
designations of the Youth League, American Labor Party, and the 
various different peace groups, and also copy which was run off in 
that office and bearing the designation of the Communist Party of 
Erie County. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word, please, about Floyd Fried. 

Mr. Chatley. Floyd Fried was an employee of the Westinghouse 
Corp. in their Cheektowaga plant. 

It was reported to me at that time that he was some kind of minor 
officer, a steward or such, in this union. As to the accuracy of that, 
I do not know. I know I attended some of these policy meetings of 
the Communists who were pushing the peace group organization at 
the home of the Frieds. On one occasion, I helped to address enve- 
lopes which were used to mail out literature which had previously been 
duplicated by machine in the UE offices. 

Mr. Arens. This was Communist literature ? 



1724 OOMMTINIST ACnVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 

Mr. Chatley. It was peace group literature, but issued by order 
of the Communist Party. 

This list of names which we mailed the invitations to was secured 
by Concetta Fried, and consisted of members of a Parent-Teacher 
Association group, of which she was a member. 

Mr. Arens. Do you in like manner identify as a person known by 
you to a certainty to be a Communist, Joseph Green ? 

Mr. Chatley. Joseph Green, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is he the man who just preceded you on the witness 
stand ? 

Mr. Chatley. That is right. 

Mr. Arens, "Without a description of his complete activities, just 
tell us within what unit or entity in the Communist Party he oper- 
ated, to your knowledge. 

Mr. Chatley. Within the labor sections. I met him several times 
within those sections. 

Mr. Arens. Do you in like manner identify as a person known by 
you to be a Communist Diantha Hoag? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us a comparable word description of her. 

Mr. Chatley. Diantha Hoag was in one of the labor sections. She 
was an employee at the Westinghouse Electric Corp., and a minor 
union officer at that place. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

Mr. Chatley. I was instructed that, with both Joseph Green and 
Diantha Hoag, I might discuss openly the affairs of the Communist 
Party in which I had been instructed to participate, and that they 
were good party members and utterly trustworthy. 

Mr. Arens. Do you in like manner identify to your certain knowl- 
edge as a Communist, Preston Holder ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Please give us just a word about Mr. Preston Holder. 

Air. Chatley. At the time that I was ordered by the gentleman who 
also gave me my top instructions, Mr. John Noto, to engage in pro- 
motion of peace groups and organizations as ordered by the Commu- 
nist organization 

Mr. Arens. Was that his principal function, the peace groups? 

Mr. Chatley. No. 

Mr. Arens. What was his principal function, then, please, sir? 

Mr. Chatley. I would not know exactly what his principal func- 
tions were, except that I do know that he was under orders from the 
Communist Party. 

]\Ir. Arens. Did you work with him in Communist Party functions? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. I was instructed to meet with him in a church 
school at Perry and Elmwood. 

The instructions were as follows: That I was to go there, I was to 
be there at 8 o'clock, and that either 1 of 2 men or both would contact 
me there. It would be either Dr. AVilliam Parry or Dr. Preston 
Holder; and upon their identifying themselves to me, I should take 
instructions from them and carry out the orders to the best of my 
ability. 

Mr. Arens. Did Preston Holder show up, and did you take such 
orders from him, is that correct ? 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIE'S IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1725 

Mr. Chatlet. Yes. He explained that Dr. Parry was unable to 
attend. He had night classes that evening, but he would be at the 
next meeting. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, in a like manner, 
Joseph C. Infante? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Akens. Just a word as to what his connection was, not what 
he did. 

Mr. Chatley. He was an officer of the United Electrical Workers 
Independent in the offices at Delaware and Tupper, along with 
Emanuel J. Fried. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Chatley. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist a person 
by the name of Sidney Ingerman ? 

Mr. Chatley. Very well. 

Mr. Arens. And just a word as to his connection. 

Mr. Chatley. At the time that I was sent into the Labor Youth 
League — and I was sent in there many times just for a duration of 
3 or 4 days to help in drives that they were pushing — I was instructed 
that I could contact any of a number of people who were active in 
this group, and I was told which ones were the party members and 
which ones were to be trusted. With no other personnel in the Labor 
Youth League was I permitted to discuss party operations. There 
were Mortimer and Phyllis Scheer. The two people who at that time 
were directing the open activities of the Labor Youth League were 
Sidney and Doris Ingerman. 

Mr. Arens. Did you likewise know Doris Ingerman as a Com- 
munist ? 

INIr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And she worked with Sidney in the youth group; is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Chatley. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know, in like manner, as a Communist a person 
by the name of Hattie Lumpkin ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about Hattie Lumpkin, please, sir. 

Mr. Chatley. Hattie Lumpkin was a longtime member of the Com- 
munist Party, and I was told that her entire family were members 
of the party organization. 

At the time that I was instructed to work with the peace groups, 
I was to go to Hattie Lumpkin's home; and I was told that she 
knew me by sight and that she would receive me there and we would 
start the operations of setting up an organization to be known as 
the East Side Peace Group. I did that and operated with, and under 
the direction of, Hattie Lumpkin for a period of several weeks. 

Mr. Arens. Was Communist propaganda developed and dissemi- 
nated from Hattie Lumpkin's home ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did they have any equipment there, duplicating equip- 
ment? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. I was instructed to go there one night with 
Dr. Preston Holder, and we had a stencil which had been prepared 
in advance. I do not know who prepared the stencil. We were look- 



1726 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 

ing for a duplicating machine. There was such a machine, we were 
told, in the attic of Hattie Lumpkin's home. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist Albert 
Lutsky ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about Albert Lutsky, please, sir; just what 
his connection was. 

Mr. Chatley. At the time that I became a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, I was called to the home of Frances Clune, where I met 
with John Noto and Albert Lutsky. They had, previous to going 
underground, been known as the organizer — Noto was the organizer 
and director of activities for the western half of New York State, 
and I guess some other areas out of the State, for the Communist 
Party. Al Lutsky had succeeded John Noto as chairman of the Erie 
County Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in like manner, of course, know John Noto? 
I say "of course," because you testified against him in a Smith Act 
trial. 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. I will not ask you for further identification, because 
that is a matter of public record. 

Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist William Nuchow ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word as to his connection, and not a narration 
as to what he did, please. 

Mr. Chatley. William Nuchow was one of the very active and 
trusted members of the party at that time in the operation of the 
Labor Youth League locally, as was his wife. 

Mr. Arens. Where did he work ? 

Mr. Chatley. At that time, I did not know where he worked. It 
was, I believe, in some steel plant here in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist William Parry ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word as to his connection. 

Mr. Chatley. "VVlien I was sent to work with the University of 
Buffalo Group, my instructions were that there would be two people 
who would direct my activities. They would be Dr. William Parry 
and/or Dr. Preston Holder. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliere is Parry now ? 

Mr. Chatley. I do not know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist a person 
by the name of Norton Putter ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. And just a word as to Norton Putter's connection, 
please. 

Mr. Chatley. The Clunes identified Norton Putter to me as a long- 
time member of the Communist Party, and instructed me to work 
with Norton Putter in a campaign to increase the subscription list of 
the National Guardian, a paper which was published by the American 
Labor Party in New York State and the Progressive Party nationally. 

Mr. Arens. Did you work with Putter ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. I attended a meeting at Mr. Putter's home at 
No. 7 Coburg Street, near the Buffalo city line. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1727 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist Ann 
Eogovin ? 

Mr. Chatlet. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Is that Mrs. Milton Rogovin ? 

Mr. Chatley. Mrs. Milton Rogovin, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, just a word of her connection. 

Mr. Chatlet. Shortly after becoming a member of the party, I 
was told by Frances Clune that I might never meet the top officers 
of the party locally because they were kept under cover all the time. 

Later she did reveal to me that the man who received the orders here 
in Buffalo and gave them out to the various different groups and who 
directed and coordinated the activities and was actually the No. 1 
Communist in the area was Milton Rogovin. 

Mr. ScHERER. AVhat was the name ? 

Mr. Chatley. Rogovin. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist Alex- 
ander Salmin? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens Just a word, please, as to his connection. 

Mr. Chatley. Alexander Salmin, at that time, was active in, I be- 
lieve, one or more of the steel sections in this area, and was also very 
active in the Labor Youth League. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist a person 
by the name of Joe Salmon ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word as to his activity, not a narration as to 
what he did, but what his connection was. 

Mr. Chatley. He was assisting and helping in the promotion of 
these peace organizations. This was by order, locally. He was very 
scared, he was almost in tears. He had had a lot of trouble, locally, be- 
cause he had almost been kicked out by the board of education a num- 
ber of years previously. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist a per- 
son by the name of Mort Scheer? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. Mort Scheer was very active in the Labor 
Youth League, and I was also told that he was one of the principal 
persons in one or more of the steel sections. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, likewise, his wife 
Phyllis Scheer? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. She was very active in the Labor Youth 
League and the American Labor Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist a per- 
son by the name of Barbara Shore ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, Barbara Shore and her husband. Jack Shore. 
Shortly after I became a member of the Communist Party, the Shores 
departed from this area. I was told that a bunch of FBI stool pigeons 
had gotten Jack Shore fired from his job and he was going to be 
transferred to the Pittsburgh area. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in like manner, know as a Communist a per- 
son by the name of Joseph Scioli ? 

Mr. Chatley. Joe Scioli, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word of identification of him, please. 



1728 COMMUNIST AcnvrriES in the buffalo, n. y., area 

]\Ir. Chatley. Joe Scioli was the district representative for the 
]\Iine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union, which had been ousted from 
the CIO for being a Communist-controlled international union, 

Mr. Scioli was very active in this area. He was quite a man locally 
in labor circles, and at times was very put out. His answers always 
to question from other people as to his affiliations were that that was 
not the prime question of importance. The thing of most importance 
was what could be done for labor locally. 

I was told by the Clunes that Joe Scioli was a party member. 

Mr. Arens. Did you work with him and know him as a Communist 
in that respect ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. I was ordered one time to go and walk in a 
picket line at the American Brass Corp., and while there I should 
contact Mr. Scioli and do anything that he requested of me. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

Did you know as Communists John and Eose Touralchuk? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word as to the function they had, not a narra- 
tion of what they did but just what their connection was. 

Mr. Chatley. They were connected with the International "Work- 
ers Order. They also were connected with the American Labor Party 
and with various different peace groups; and at one time when the 
Dail}'^ Worker had been barred from the newstands in Buffalo, it 
was suggested to me that I get in and help to distribute the Daily 
Worker locally by hand, which I very definitely did not want to do. 
I begged off that t did not have the time. 

I was informed that I could not consider myself more busily en- 
gaged in any activities than Rose Touralchuk or Joe Scioli, and it 
was reported to me that they were both assisting in the delivery of 
the Daily Worker by hand. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, in like manner, Dr. 
Joyce Wike? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. Dr. Joyce Wike was an instructor at 
Buffalo University, the wife of Dr. Preston Holder. 

ISIr. Arens. Do you know where she is now ? 

Mr. Chatley. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Cliatley, among other items of concern to this 
committee is the problem of Communists using passports for inter- 
national travel as couriers, as propagandists, as agents in furtherance 
of the international conspiracy. 

During the course of your service in the Communist Party at the 
behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, did you have any 
occasion to acquire information respecting the perversion by the Com- 
munist conspiracy of passport credentials? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. In succinct, concise form, please summarize for us what 
your information is on that. 

Mr. Chatley. I received a telephone call one afternoon from Eman- 
uel J. Fried of the United Electrical Workers, telling me that my name 
had been proposed to join with a group of trade unionists in the 
United States who would tour Europe to survey labor conditions. He 
informed me that actually I would be taken on a guided tour of the 
Soviet Union. He was sending Michael Clune to my home to discuss 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1729 

it with me further. Mr. Clune would be there within a half or three- 
quarters of an hour. 

Mr. Arens. Fried and Clune were both Communists ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Immediately on finishing the telephone conversation with Mr. Fried, 
I contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation and reported the 
matter. They instructed me neither to accept nor decline the trip, 
but to say that I would see if it were possible for me to make that 
trip, the number of conditions I would have facing me which might 
make it impossible, but that I would like to make the trip. The FBI 
would contact me later and give me further instructions. 

Wlien I was contacted later, the FBI definitely was interested in 
having me make that trip. Their instructions were that if I were so 
minded, I could make that trip ; that it would be very helpful to their 
operations. They could not definitely demand of me that I make the 
trip, but they were only asking because they could not protect me aU 
the way as they had done previously. 

After a little thought on the subject, even though I felt I had not 
lost anything inside the Soviet Union and I would have not been there 
on a good basis, I accepted and was instructed by a man who came to 
Buffalo within a matter of several days. Mr. Charles Velson 

Mr. Arens. And he has been repeatedly identified as a Communist ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. Instructed me to go and make application for 
a passport. He explained to me the conditions under which I would 
have to make this application. We had a rather lengthy discussion 
there in my home. Before the time when the trip was to have been 
made, Mr. Velson was present in my home on several occasions. 

On one occasion we had arranged to meet for the first time on the 
subject of the trip to the Soviet Union at the East Side Peace Group 
meeting at St. Stephen's Evangelical and Eeform Church School, at 
Sycamore and Charles Street, with Mr. Deboben who had also been 
selected by Mr. Fried, to make this trip. We met Mr. Deboben there 
and, after the peace meeting was over, we adjourned to the Waldorf 
Restaurant on Broadway ; and there Mr. Deboben accepted and said 
that he would immediately apply for a passport. 

I applied for my passport and received my passport. Because of 
some circumstances which were more or less beyond my control, it 
required securing leave of absence from my job, which the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation did for me; but under the union agreement, 
it must be agreeable to the union also. Around about this time I had 
had difficulties with the union, but the situation resulted in my being 
exposed to the Communists, more or less, and the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation notified me that because of undesirable publicity, the 
trip would be called off. 

Mr. Arens. That is, your part of the trip ? 

Mr. Chatley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. The trip itself went on, did it not ? 

Mr. Chatley. No; it did not. The passports were all picked up 
within a matter of several days by representatives of the United States 
Department of State. 

Mr. Aeens. What was the purpose of the proposed trip ? 

Mr. Chatley. The purpose of the proposed trip was so that these 
labor people could secure information to bring back to the United 



1730 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

States for the purposes of giving lectures, talks, and such, to union 
people in this country in the hope of changing the attitude of trade 
unionists toward the Soviet Union. It was kind of impressed upon 
me by Mr. Velson that I was a thoroughly trusted member of the 
Communist Party and that I could do much good. On my return 
from the Soviet Union, I would be assisted in preparing films that I 
would take there and lectures that I would give, ni preparing these 
items, by some of the top Communist personnel in this country. 

Mr. Arens. These were propaganda films to be prepared? 

Mr. CiiATLEY. Yes. In other words, he was telling me in advance 
that I would not be permitted to lecture with my own words, but 
with someone else's. 

Mr. Aeens. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that we have been 
in consultation with Mr. Chatley many, many hours ; and he has given 
us considerable detail, as I believe is evident from his testimony this 
morning. He is a man of extreme caution, care, and detail in his testi- 
mony. I do not think there is any other area that is germane to the 
general subject matter which we are presently considering. 

I would, therefore, respectf uly suggest that for purposes of further 
interrogation, Mr. Chatley now be excused. 

Mr. Chatley. Might I make one small additional statement? 

I would like to say now that I believe, and believe firmly, that 
elected representatives of the people, such as Members of the House 
of Representatives of the United States, do have a mandate — whether 
it be voted to them by other Members of Congress or by anyone — 
when they are elected to that job they have the duty, a mandate from 
the American people, to do everything in their power to protect the 
security of this country. I still believe that, gentlemen. Thank you. 

Mr. Willis. Thank you very much. You have made a great contri- 
bution to that mandate assigned to us by Congress. 

Mr. Chatley. I think you are doing a very excellent job. 

Mr. Willis. We appreciate the service you have rendered to your 
country. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Mr. Max Stein. 

Mr. Willis. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Stein. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MAX STEIN 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Stein. Max Stein, 97 Longfellow Court, Tonawanda, N. Y., 
open-hearth worker, Bethlehem Steel Co., Lackawanna, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Stein, you are appearing in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I see you are not represented by counsel. 

Mr. Stein. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You know, of course, you have the privilege of counsel ? 

Mr. Stein. I do, sir. 



CORlMUlSriST ACjnVITIES m THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AEEA 1731 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Stein, in view of the fact you do not have counsel, 
I will advise you now that if I ask you a question, the answer to which 
in your honest judgment would give information which could be used 
against you in a crjminal proceeding, you have the privilege — not the 
duty, but the privilege — if you so choose, to decline to answer that 
question by making reference to the appropriate provision of the fifth 
amendment on self-incrimination. Do you understand ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Stein. New York City, November 23, 1919. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education, please. 

Mr. Stein. Well, I guess you would say about 1 year of high school 
is all. 

Mr. Arens. When did you move to the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. Stein. Sir? 

Mr. Arens. When did you come to the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. Stein. Somewhere around 6 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. And how long have you been employed at your present 
place of employment? 

Mr. Stein. It will be 5 years, I think, in January or February. I 
am not sure. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity are you employed there ? 

Mr. Stein. Well, second helper most of the time; third helper in 
the open hearth. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Stein. I will have to take the fifth on that. I had an answer 
prepared, but I don't think that it will make any difference now 
anyway. 

Mr. Arens. We don't want to in any sense impose upon you. 

Mr. Stein. That is the reason I think the fifth would help pretty 
well. I will just plead the fifth amendment on that. 

Mr. Arens. You feel that if you gave us a truthful answer to the 
'question, "Are you now a member of the Communist Party?" you 
would be giving information which might be used against you in a 
criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Stein. Yes, essentially, I suppose that could be part of it. I 
had — I deliberately did not take counsel, because I feel, not that I feel 
there is anything wrong with lawyers or anything like that, but I 
would like to give the answers as honestly as I feel I can. I had in- 
tended under certain conditions to give more information. But I 
see that, in either case, it would not make any difference. I would 
just as soon take the fifth in that case. 

Mr. Arens. May I suggest this to you 

Mr. Stein. Rather than say that I was or was not- 



Mr. Arens. I am at a slight disadvantage here in my interrogation 
of you, because I am a lawyer and I have been active in this type of 
work for many, many years, and I do not want to put you in a position 
where my conscience would tell me, "Well, he ought to have legal 
advice." 

Is there something you can tell us about the Communist Party 
or the Communist operation, if you have such information, without 
revealing facts that you think could be used against you in a criminal 

97795— 57— pt. 2 3 



1732 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN" THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

proceeding ? Frankly, I am a little embarrassed to press you at this 
time because you do not have counsel. 

Mr. Stein. I think I will have to take the fifth amendment on 
that question, too. I think I understand a sufficient amount of it to 
know that I think it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Could I just ask you this question: Have you disas- 
sociated yourself from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Stein. I would say morally ; yes. 

Mr. Scherer. What was the answer ? 

Mr. Willis. "Morally ; yes." 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us now when that disassociation came 
about ? 

Mr. Stein. Oh, I can't give any periods. 

Mr. Arens. AVell, what is a good rough estimate ? 

Mr. Stein. The last several years. 

Mr. Arens. Several years ago ? 

Mr. Stein. Over the last period of a few years. 

Mr. Arens. You mean the process of disassociation took several 
years ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. The last few years ; is that correct ? Two years ? 

Mr. Stein. Two years, 3 years, 4 years, I don't know. I have 
never felt — may I say I will admit to being a radical, I have been 
one all my life, I think, one way or another, and I have no compunc- 
tion about answering that. I have done some things that I might 
have understood and disagreed with later, and some things that I 
disagreed with and changed my mind about. 

As far as certain questions that you are asking now as far as the 
Communist Party is concerned, and when I fell out of favor with 
it, or the policies or anything of that sort, it has been a question of 
never having felt completely at home in all of it. 

I am saying here now, I guess, that I was a member of the party — 
or the same thing. But it has been a process that has taken several 
years, not just 2 years, maybe more and maybe less. 

Mr. Arens. I speculate, but I cannot speak for the subcommittee — 
I speculate, in view of your present candor with us, that this sub- 
committee would go all out in protecting you against any possible 
adverse action against yourself, Mr. Stein, as we have done on re- 
peated occasions with other witnesses who had information. 

Let me say this to you: In the history of this committee, not a 
single witness before this committee who has been in the Communist 
Party, who has taken an oath and told this committee without reser- 
vation everything he knows about the Communist Party, not a single 
witness has ever even been the object of an indictment. I speculate 
that as long as the present membership of this committee endures, not 
a single witness will ever be in that status. 

What I am saying is this : that if you are disposed to tell us every- 
thing you know, I do not mean about personal matters but about the 
conspiracy, about the Communist Party, about people who were in 
the Communist Party, about the operations of the Communist Party — 
if you are disposed to tell us that, I think I would strongly suggest 
there is not a ghost of a chance that you will ever be in any trouble 
from that testimony. 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIE'S EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1733 

Mr. Willis. Let me supplement that. Not only that, but I can go 
further. Under the sponsorship of this committee, Congress passed 
a law which gives us the power to initiate proceedings to get a court 
order to give you complete immunity. Not only as a matter of prac- 
tical operation would we be glad to have you talk to our investigators, 
but we would be happy to initiate proceedings to give you complete 
immunity. Do you want to think about this ? 

Mr. Stein. No. I listened to Mr. Arens — I guess that is your 
name — and actually I can say truthfully I have no fear. I mean, 
I feel that whatever the circumstances might be at present, that I 
might or might not be fully capable of coping with them as I go 
along, but I am satisfied that I have made my bed and I will sleep 
in it. Really, as far as my conscience is concerned — any people or 
persons or things like that, that I feel in my own conscience, were 
not, as the committee has termed so often, traitorous, or whatever 
it might be — I feel that it has never come to my mind that anything 
I have ever been involved in was that, and that if it might have been, 
I think I would have taken the appropriate action myself. 

Mr. Arens. Are you completely out of the Communist Party now, 
irrevocably ? 

Mr. Stein. As far as I am concerned, yes. I never resigned, or 
anything like that, just like I never actually joined. But I floated. 
That is all I can say about that. But I have no fear, no fear of 
anything that might tend to make things more difficult for me. I 
feel that I can cope with them. 

Mr. Arens. From what you said presently, I see no reason for you 
to have fear. The bed that you are speaking of, so far as this bed 
is concerned, will not be a bed of nails. 

May I ask you this : What was your period of membership in the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Stein. Well, I joined it about — I guess when I got out of the 
service. I more or less floated in. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that, about 1945 or 1946 ? 

Mr. Stein. About that. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you when you joined? 

Mr. Stein. I was in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And what unit did you join ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't know. I think it was the youth group of some 
kind or another. 

Mr. Arens. Was it the Labor Youth League ? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Youth for Democracy? 

Mr. Stein. No. 'V^Tiat the heck was it? It was a youth club, I 
think. 

Mr. Arens. A youth club of the party ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. I think that is what it was. 

Mr. Arens. Was it in connection with some school ? 

Mr. Stein. No. I never went to school. Never. 

Mr. Arens. Do you remember the name of the club ? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. It was not the John Reed Club, was it ? 

Mr. Stein. No. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you connected with that club ? 



1734 cx)MMiJN"isT AcnvrriES in the buffalo, n. y., area 

Mr. Stein. Gee, I don't know. I don't want to appear to be giving 
untruthful answers. 

Mr. Aeens. I honestly think thus far you have been very truthful 
with us. 

Mr. Stein. It was just the period that I got in there and started 
doing something or other, and kept working. 

Mr. Arens. Were you ideologically identified with the party? 

Mr. Stein. Excuse me ? 

Mr. Arens. Were you actually ideologically identified with the 
party ? 

Mr. Stein. As far as I, myself, am concerned, or by others ? 

Mr. Arens. Were you actually a Communist, actually in the party ? 

Mr. Stein. Well, I suppose as much as anybody could be at the 
time, I suppose I was a Communist. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you in this youth group in the party ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't remember. It was a period of a few years. 

Mr. Arens. At that time when you were in the youth group, were 
you also identified with any other entity of the party ? 

Mr. Stein. No ; just that. 

Mr. Arens. Then after the termination of your membership in this 
youth group, did you become allied or affiliated with some other group 
in the party ? 

Mr. Stein. I probably did. I must have. I imagine if I was in 
the youth group, I grew up, apparently, and must have joined some 
other groups of older people. Just what time that happened or when 
it was, I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been active in tlie party here in the Buffalo 
area since you moved to Buffalo, whenever it was, 6 years ago ? 

Mr. Stein. I will have to take the fifth amendment on that. 

JNIr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I am in the very embarrassing position 
of undertaking to elicit information here on the basis of cross-exami- 
nation techniques of a man who does not have counsel, even though 
he knows he has the right to counsel. We have a peculiar situation 
here, one that is rather difficult for me to pursue without having myself 
feel that perhaps I would be taking undue advantage of the witness. 

We want the information, and we feel that if you give us the infor- 
mation you have nothing to fear at all. At the same time, you do have 
constitutional rights which you may invoke. 

I would respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the better part 
of wisdom would be if we would continue this witness under subpena 
and excuse him at the present time, with the hope that, by staff con- 
sultation with him at some other time, we might be able to resolve 
this thing in such a manner that we could get the information and, at 
the same time, not have the witness feel, or have ourselves feel in- 
wardly, that we are doing something that we might feel is taking 
advantage of him. 

Mr. Scherer. I would suggest in the meantime that he might con- 
sult counsel. 

Mr. Willis. That course will be followed. The witness is excused 
for the time being, but you are still under subpena. 

Mr. Stein. May I speak with somebody ? I have certain personal 
problems that w^ould make it difficult. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Jones, of our staff, is a veteran investigator and 
also acting as a clerk in this proceeding. 



coMMU]snsT AcnvrriES est the buffalo, n. y., area 1735 

Jack, would you go in there and chat with him a little while ? 

The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. Sam 
Brook. 

Mr. Willis. Kindly raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Brook. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SAM BROOK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
CARL GREEN 

Mr. Akens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Brook. My name is Sam Brook. I live at 92 Crestwood Ave- 
nue, in Buffalo. I work at Bethlehem Steel Co. as a handy man in 
the blast-furnace department. 

Mr. Arens. I wonder if you could keep your voice up a little, Mr. 
Brook. It is difficult for the members of the committee to hear you. 
Would you repeat that ; they were unable to hear you. 

Mr. Brook. My name is Sam Brook. I live at 92 Crestwood Ave- 
nue, in Buffalo, and I work as a handy man for Bethlehem Steel Co. 

Mr. Arens. You. are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Brook. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Brook. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Green. Carl Green, 35 Court Street, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Brook, are you now, or have you ever been, a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I am not now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party any time 
in the course of the last year ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I would have to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party any time 
in the course of the last 6 months ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I have to decline to answer the question on the same 
grounds, but I will state that at the time I received the subpena I 
was not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party a week 
prior to the time that you received your subpena to appear before 
this committee? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I was not a member of the Communist Party for the 
period that you just inquired. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time in the course of the last couple of months ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 



1736 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Brook. Let me put it this way : I have to decline to answer that 
question invoking my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Brook, I wouki like to display to you a photostatic 
copy of an affidavit of non-Communist union officer filed with the 
National Labor Kelations Board of the United States : "I am not a 
member of the Communist Party or affiliated with such party." This 
is dated July 1956, and signed by Sam Brook of the United Steelwork- 
ers of America, Local 2601. 

First of all, were you ever in the United Steelworkers of America? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer, based on my rights under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now with the United Steelworkers of America ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I am a member. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of the United Steel- 
workers ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I have to decline to answer that question under my 
rights under the fifth. 

Mr. Arens. Are you an officer ? 

Mr. Scherer. Wait a minute. I ask that the chairman direct the 
witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer the question as to how long 
you have been with the United Steelworkers. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I have to continue to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you an officer of the United Steelworkers of 
America ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I am. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been an officer ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer the question under the fifth. 

Mr. Arens. What office do you hold in the United Steelworkers 
of America? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I believe it is inside guard. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to display to you now this affidavit signed 
by yourself, in which you stated under oath before the National Labor 
Relations Board on July 31, 1956, that you were not a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Kindly look at that affidavit and tell us whether or not you were 
telling the truth when you affixed your signature and swore that you 
were not a Communist in July of 1956. 

[Document handed to witness.] 
(Witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Brook. I will continue to decline to answer that question. 
(Document marked "Brook Exhibit No. 1" follows :) 



COMMUNIST ACmVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1737 



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1738 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 



INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE USE OF THIS FORM 



WHO MUST FILE. — ^This affidavit must be filed by each officer of a labor organization before that organ- 
ization may use the facilities of the National Labor Relations Board. An affidavit must be on file for 
each officer listed in your constitution and bylaws. 

WHERE TO FILE.— NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL LABOR ORGANIZATIONS must file this 
affidavit with the Affidavit Compliance Branch, National Labor Relations Board, Washington 25, D. C. 

LOCAL LABOR ORGANIZATIONS must file this affidavit with the Regional Office of the National 
Labor Relations Board with which they usually file cases. 

WHEN TO FILE. — ^This affidavit is good for only one year from the time it is signed and must be renewed 
each year. Each time a new officer assumes office, whether elected or appointed, he must file this 
affidavit. If an officer is reelected or reappointed, it is not necessary to file a new affidavit unless or 
until the affidavit on file with the National Labor Relations Board is one year old. 

HOW TO PREPARE THIS AFFIDAVrT: 

a. Read carefully items 1, 2, and 3 of this affidavit. 

b. Fill in the full name of your labor organization, including the local name and number. 

If your organization is affiliated with a national or international organization, give the full name 
of the national or international. 

(EXAMPLE) 

_ Plastic, Button and Novelty Workers Union, Local 506 _ 

(Full Dame and local number) 

International Ladies Garment Workers Union — AFL 

(F^'li name of nationai or ioternaUonal) 



C. The officer must sign his name in the presence of a notary or other person authorized by 
law to administer oaths. 

d. The officer must give his full home address ; be sure to give the street address, city and State. 



COMMUNIST ACnvmES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 1739 

Mr. Arens. Is that your signature ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Wait a minute. You decline to answer the question 
for what reason ? 

Mr. Brook. On the grounds of the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Is that your signature 

Mr. ScHERER. Wait a minute, Counsel. 

You are refusing to answer the question as to whether or not you 
told the truth when you signed that affidavit under oath? You are 
refusing to answer the question on the basis that to do so might tend 
to incriminate you? That indicates you are admitting you com- 
mitted perjury when you signed that affidavit. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. You say it would tend to incriminate you to tell us 
whether or not you told the truth when you signed that affidavit 
under oath. 

Mr. Brook. I am being asked a question, sir ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. Could you let me have that question, please ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Do I understand that you are refusing to answer the 
question on the gi'ound that it will incriminate you to say whether 
or not you told the truth when you signed that affidavit ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Do I understand you correctly ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer that question because I feel that 
an answer to that question may tend to incririiinate me or make me 
liable for unjust prosecution. 

Mr. Arens. If you were prosecuted for lying before the National 
Labor Relations Board when you signed this affidavit, would it be 
an unjust prosecution ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I have to decline again under the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You were cognizant, when you signed this affidavit 
in July of 1956, of the warning at the bottom of the form : 

Warning : The attention of persons filing this form with the Board is directed 
to U. S. Code, Title 18, Sec. 1001 (formerly Sec. 80), which provides that any 
person wilfully making or causing to be made any false or fraudulent statements 
or representations in any matter within the jurisdiction of the Board shall be 
fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. 

Were you cognizant of that possible penalty for a false affidavit? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. It goes right to 
the very good faith of this witness in his invocation of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer that question. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I am sorry. I have to continue to decline to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. Brook. February 3, 1917. 



1740 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Brook. New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education. 

Mr. Brook. I am a high-school graduate. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only education you have had ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Brook. I have to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. For the same reason I have given, on the grounds of 
using the fifth amendment, my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Which privilege under the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Brook. Self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. We would like to display to you now a photostatic 
copy of an independent nominating petition for the Communist Party, 
under date of June 12, 1942, in which one Sam Brook's signature 
appears as one who was nominating, among others, Israel Amter for 
Governor of New York State. 

Kindly look at this nominating petition and tell us whether or not 
this is an accurate reproduction of your signature. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

(Document marked "Brook Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Are you irrevocably disassociated from the Communist 
Party? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. Is that in reference to the present ? 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Brook. Is that in reference to the present ? 

Mr. Arens. Are you irrevocably, finally, completely, forever dis- 
associated from the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. Mr. Arens, the answer to that is "Yes." 

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer that question, invoking my privi- 
leges under the first amendment. 

Mr. Arens. You are not against the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline, again, under the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have present information, current information, 
respecting the operation of the Communist conspiratorial apparatus 
in this area ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer that question, invoking my rights 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. If you are not against the Communist Party, and you 
disassociated yourself from the Communist Party as you have told 
us, why did you disassociate yourself from the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. I decline to answer the question under the fifth. 



COROIUNTST ACnvrriES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1741 

Mr. Arens. Did you disassociate yourself from the Communist 
Party so that you could testify before this committee and say, "Of 
course, I am not now a member of the Communist Party" ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. That is obviously the pattern that has been adopted. 
This is the first time they have had wholesale resignations within a 
few weeks prior to the hearing. 

Mr. Willis. That is a new technique, obviously. 

Mr. Brook. I am not now a Communist, and as far as I know 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. Oh, I never said I was. I have to decline to answer that 
question under the fifth. 

Mr- Arens. I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff in- 
terrogation of this witness, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Willis. Did you say you are not now a member of the party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. Yes, Your Honor. 

Mr. Willis. Did you quit for good ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Brook. Sir, I must decline to answer that question imder my 
rights under the fii-st and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Willis. The good old fifth. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the subcom- 
mittee may want in this instance, as in other instances, to invite the 
attention of the De]3artment of Justice to these non-Communist affi- 
davits which have been signed rather promiscuously by persons on 
whom we have information that they were members of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Scherer. I do not think, Mr. Chairman, that there is any 
question but that we have no alternative. Here is a man who says that 
if he tells us today whether he told the truth when he signed that 
affidavit under oath, he would tend to incriminate himself, which in- 
dicates, as I said before, a commission of perjury at the time he signed 
the affidavit. I do not think we have any alternative except to refer 
all of his testimony to the Department of Justice and let it determine 
the point. 

Mr. Willis. That is a legal question, but the Department of Justice 
will certainly have this sent to them. 

Mr. Green. Are we excused? 

Mr. Willis. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness will be Mr. Zelman. 

Mr. Willis. Kindly raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Zelman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MIROSLAW BOGDON ZELMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, SAUL TOUSTER 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Zelman. My name is Miroslaw B. Zelman, 739 Tifft Street, 
Buffalo, N. Y.j and I am a steelworker. 



1742 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Zelman. Bethlehem Steel Co. in Lackawannca, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Zelman, in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities ? 

Mr. Zelman. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Zelman. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. TousTER. Saul Touster, 77 West Eagle Street, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Zelman, are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I am going to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Plow long have you been employed by Bethlehem Steel 
Co.? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. A little over 4i/^ years. 

Mr. Arens. In wiiat capacity or capacities? 

Mr. Zelman. I work in the open hearth at the plant. 

Mr. Arens. T^Hiere were you employed immediately prior to your 
employment at Bethlehem ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. To the best of my recollection, it was with Vanetta 
Velvet Corp., in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And when was that employment ? 

Mr. Zelman. I believe it ended in 1952. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a colonizer ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I feel that I have to plead the first and fifth amend- 
ments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly feel if you told this committee truth- 
fully whether or not you are a colonizer at Bethlehem Steel in this 
area, you would be supplying information which might be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I sincerely feel that I have to decline to answer the 
question under the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. Zelman. I was born in Hamtramck, Mich., on August 29, 1918. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education. 

Mr. Zelman. I have completed — I have graduated high school. 
That is the extent of my formal education. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment at Bethlehem Steel suggested 
to you, or counseled to you, by any person known by you to be a 
Communist ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. Again I respectfully decline to answer the question 
on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you, sir, as a fact, and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact, that you were sent in to Bethlehem Steel here in this 
community as a colonizing agent for the Communist Party. If that 
is not true, please deny it while you are under oath. 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., ARE'A 1743 

Mr. Zelman. Again, I feel that I have to invoke my rights under 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. What was your street address when you lived in New 
York City some few years ago, 5 or 6 years ago ? 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct the witness to 
answer the question as to what his street address was in New York. 

Mr. Willis. I will direct you to answer the question. 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I am afraid that I have to decline to answer because 
I sincerely feel that it will be in violation of my rights under the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever serve in the United States Army? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. When and where ? 

Mr. Zelman. Well, to the best of my recollection, from 1943 until 
1946, here in the United States, and I was also stationed in Hawaii. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist during that period ? 

Mr. Zelman. I respectfully decline to answer that question as I 
sincerely feel that it is an invasion of my rights under the first and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr, Arens. Did you retain your soldier's uniform after you were 
discharged from the United States Army ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. To the best of my recollection, when I was discharged 
from the Army, I went home in the uniform ; and, therefore, I must 
have had a uniform. 

Mr. Arens. Have you used that uniform in any public sessions or 
on any public occasions since you were discharged from the United 
States Army? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I feel I must decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. The fact is you desecrated the United States Army 
uniform, did you not, by using it in a Communist May Day parade 
in New York City in 1951 ? If that is not true, please deny it while 
you are under oath. 

Mr. Zelman. I feel I must decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been with the American Labor Party? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I feel I must decline to answer the question on the 
grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. The fact is you were elected to the 21st Congressional 
District State Committee of the American Labor Party in 1950, isn't 
that correct ? 

Mr. Zelman. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of a labor organization ? 

Mr. Zelman. I am sorry. I did not quite get that. 



1744 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of a labor organization ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. At present, I am a member of the United Steelworkers 
of America. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you occupied this status as a member 
of the United Steelworkers ? 

Mr. Zelman. Well, to my knowledge, from the day I started work- 
ing there. 

Mr. Arens. Four and a half years ago ; is that correct ? 

ISIr. Zel:man. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever held an office or post in the Steelworkers ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. jSTo, sir; I have not held any office in that local. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to show^ you a directive which has been 
identified here on this record under oath by a witness, a directive 
of the Communist Party to the comrades for concentration in the 
steel industry, in which it is stated among other things, "It is necessary 
for a Marxist Eevolutionary Party to be rooted in these industries." 

Have you ever seen that directive before, or the original of which 
that is a copy? 

( Document handed to witness. ) 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Zelman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the 
first and fifth amendments. 

(Document previously designated "Eegan Exhibit No. 1," see pt. 1 
of these hearings, p. 1627.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been interrogated in the course of your 
employment at Bethlehem Steel, or in the course of your member- 
ship in the Steelworkers Union, as to whether or not you are a Com- 
munist ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Mark you, I am not asking you what you said. I 
am asking you whether or not you have ever been interrogated as to 
whether or not you are a Communist, by either the Steelworkers or by 
the Bethlehem Steel people. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I plead the first and fifth amendments and refuse 
to answer this question. 

Mr. Arens. You recognize, do you not, that you are presently under 
oath? 

Mr. Zelman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you recognize that if you falsify your answer on 
a material matter to this committee, you can be prosecuted for perjury, 
do you not ? You recognize that fact ? 

Mr. Zelman. I have so been advised by counsel. 

Mr. iVRENS. Do you presently intend, when you are released from 
your oath before this committee, released from the possible pains and 
penalties of perjury, to step out and tell the Steelworkers and tell 
Bethlehem Steel, "Of course I am not a Communist. Of course I 
have never been a Communist. But I w\as not going to tell that witch- 
hunting. Fascist, red-baiting House Un-American Activities Com- 
mittee that I am not a Communist." Is that what your present 
intention is ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVmES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., ARE!A 1745 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Zelman. I feel that the question enters into or violates my 
rights under the first and fifth amendments, inquiring into my beliefs 
or ideas, and I therefore decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. May I respectfully suggest that if that is your intention, 
we will be very glad to afford you the facilities of this committee at 
any time to submit yourself to an oath where you would be subjected 
to the pains and penalties of perjury, where we would be more likely 
to be certain of the facts. 

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff 
interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

We will take a recess until 1 : 45 this afternoon. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 31 p. m., October 3, 1957, the hearing was 
recessed until 1 : 45 p. m,, the same day.) 

(The following members were present : Mr. Willis and Mr. Scherer.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— THURSDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1957, 1 : 45 P. M. 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. Counsel 
will call the next witness. 

(Present at the reconvening of the session were Kepresentatives 
Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Joseph Scioli, please come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing, but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. SciOLi. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH C. SCIOLI, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

NATHAN WITT 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Scioli. Joseph C. Scioli, 39 Olcott Place, international repre- 
sentative of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter 
Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Scioli, you are appearing today in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scioli. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Scioli. Yes 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Witt. Nathan Witt, Post Office Box 156, New York 23, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, Mr. Scioli ? Where are you 
actually employed ? 

Mr. Scioli. Here in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. With what companies does the International Union of 
Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers bargain in this greater Buffalo 
area? 



1746 coMMTJNisT AcnvrriES m the buffalo, n. y., area 

Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, may I make a legal objection to that ? 

]Mr. Willis. What is the question — where is he employed ? 

Mr. Arens. No, sir. He is a bargaining representative for the 
International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers. I have 
asked him with what plants he bargains. 

Mr. Willis. All right. 

Mr. Arens. That is, bargains in his work. 

Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Scioli 

Mr. Willis. Yon are not testifying. The witness is testifying. 

Mr. Witt. I have a legal objection. 

Mr. Willis. You have appeared before this committee before and 
know the rules. 

Mr. Witt. The rules permit me to make legal objections, Mr. Willis. 
I have a legal objection to this question. 

IMr. Willis. They do not. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Scioli, please answer the question : With what 
companies do you bargain here as the international representative of 
the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Witt. Assuming this committee is constitutional, that question 
is improper because it is not pertinent. 

Mr. ScHERER. Will you explain? 

Mr. AYiTT. Mr. Willis, since you are not permitting me to make 
legal objections, I will have to advise my client 

Mr. Willis. That is all right. We do not need your advice. 

Mr. Witt. I am not giving you advice. I am giving my client 
advice. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Scioli, the pertinency of that question stems from 
this fact, namely, that the Committee on Un-American Activities has 
before it at the present time a number of proposals for legislation, 
among which are proposals dealing with the problem of Communist 
penetration of industrial establishments, heavy industry establish- 
ments. 

You have on this particular record been identified under oath by 
competent w^itnesses as a person who has been a member of the Com- 
munist Party. It is, therefore, pertinent to the inquiry for this com- 
mittee to ascertain what access you have had, and do have, in the 
course of your work in this community so that if the committee, or 
if the Congress and the committee, so determines, they may desire to 
introduce certain legislation precluding people who have been iden- 
tified as Communists from access to vital industrial establishments. 

With that background and that explanation, I respectfully ask you 
again to tell this committee with what plants do you negotiate, do 
you bargain, do you have access. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Witt. I made my objection. I would like to have a ruling 
from the Chair. 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to answer that question. 
(The witness conferred w^ith his counsel.) 

Mr. Scioli. I am assigned to the Buffalo area and the companies 
that I service are the American Brass Co., the Niagara Falls Smelting 
& Eefining Corp., and the Samuel Greenfield Co., Inc. 



COMMUNIST AOnvrriES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1747 

Mr. Akens. All located in the greater Buffalo area? 

Mr. SciOLi. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Are there employees in each of those several plants for 
whom you bargain ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScioLi. The employees bargain, and I help them in my capacity. 

Mr. Arens. Does the International Union of Mine, Mill, and 
Smelter Workers, of which you are the international representative, 
hold contracts in each of these various plants ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. For how many individual workers do you bargain in 
this area? 

Mr. ScioLi. Approximately fifteen or sixteen hundred, 

Mr. Arens. Who is your immediate superior within the framework 
of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. Irving Dichter, the executive board member of our 
district. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever signed a non-Communist affidavit under 
the provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. No. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Witt. May I make my legal objections now, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Willis. No. You can make objections in court. This is a con- 
gressional hearing and study. You may advise your client. We do 
not need your advice nor your objections. 

Mr. WiTT'. I am not seeking to give the committee any advice. I am 
representing my client. 

Mr. Willis. You have been before us before. You are an oldtimer. 

Mr. Witt. I have been permitted to make legal objections before, 
Mr. Willis. The last time I appeared, as Mr. Arens will tell you, 
in the city of Denver, before Mr. Walter, he permitted me to make any 
legal objections on the record. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Scioli, will you kindly answer the question: Are 
you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Witt. May I have a ruling again from you, Mr. Chairman, as 
to whether I can make my legal objections ? Otherwise, you are going 
to be here twice as long as you need to because you compel me to make 
my legal objections 

Mr. Willis. We are not going to be here very long with you. 
Answer the question. 

Mr. Witt. You compel me, against what I understand is the pro- 
cedure of the committee, to have my client make the legal objections 
that I should be making. 

Mr. Willis. You know you can tell your client to make all the 
objections he wants, or to refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Witt, because of the apparent course of events here 
and prospective action which may be taken by this committee, I invite 



97795— 57— pt. 2- 



1748 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

your attention to the rules of this committee with which I am confi- 
dent you are thoroughly familiar, namely : 

The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing and while the 
witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal rights. 
Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the committee, 
but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client. 

Now, please, Mr. Scioli, answer the question : Are you now a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Witt. Mr. Arens, that rule has been interpreted by the com- 
mittee to 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that counsel now 
be admonished that his sole and exclusive prerogative here is to advise 
his client and if he does not contain himself and abide by the rules 
of this committee, he will be compelled to depart the hearing room. 

Mr. Willis. Will you read that part of the rule for the record ? 

Mr. Arens. I just did, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Willis. That was in the record ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Willis. All right. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Which provision of the fifth amendment are you allud- 
ing to, Mr. Scioli ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. The provision that gives me the privilege not to answer 
such questions. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you answered that 
question you would be giving information which might be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding? 

Mr. Scioli. Mr. Arens, I prefer to answer that in my own way. I 
have my counsel here. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest this record now 
reflect an order and direction to this witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to answer the question because it is a 
perfectly proper question. The only right you have to invoke the 
privilege of the fifth amendment is the honest fear on your part that 
you might be subjecting yourself to criminal prosecution, criminal 
proceedings. Therefore, it is a proper question, and you are ordered 
to answer it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. It is a test of your honesty and good faith. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScioLi. I refuse to answer, the exercise of the same privilege. 

Mr. Arens. Have you served on the Political Action Committee of 
the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers? 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I object to that question under the first amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer the question. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I have worked with the local Political Action Com- 
mittee. 



COMMimrST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1749 

Mr. Arens. Does the International Union of Mine, Mill, and 
Smelter Workers use the facilities of the National Labor Relations 
Board? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I object to this question on the grounds of pertinency. 

Mr. Arens. I shall be very happy to explain the pertinency to you. 

Over the course of many years, there has been developed considerable 
information about Communist penetration of labor organizations and, 
indeed, Communist penetration of the Government. 

As a matter of fact, the National Labor Relations Board itself, so 
the sworn testimony shoAvs, was penetrated by Communist agents. A 
onetime Assistant General Counsel of the National Labor Relations 
Board has been identified under oath as a hard-core member of the 
Communist conspiracy, and when he was brought before this com- 
mittee he invoked the privileges of the fifth amendment. 

A person who was a member of the National Labor Relations Board 
was, himself, one time identified as a member of the Communist con- 
spiracy. The National Labor Relations Board has, we believe, purged 
itself of Communists and other traitors of that variety. 

We are anxious to know what agencies, or what groups and organi- 
zations, are now unable to avail themselves of the facilities of the 
National Labor Relations Board because of a factual situation in 
which they cannot have their officers sign the Taft-Hartley affidavit 
under 9 (H) of the National Labor Relations Act, as amended by 
the Taft-Hartley Act. 

Furthermore, we are interested because we know that there are a 
number of Communist agents who have penetrated heavy industrial 
establishments through organizations which appear to be bona fide 
labor organizations, but which in truth and in fact are only arms of 
the international Communist conspiracy. 

We have pending before the committee a number of proposed 
amendments, a number of suggestions, by which there can be a tight- 
ening of the laws so as to preclude Communists, Communist agents. 
Communist potential saboteurs, spies, and the like, from access to 
the heavy industrial establishments of this Nation who would, if 
they do have that access, jeopardize the security of this Republic. 

It is on that basis that I ask you the question whether or not to 
your certain knowledge the International Union of Mine, Mill, and 
Smelter Workers, of which you are an international representative, 
does avail itself of the facilities of the National Labor Relations 
Board. 

Now, I respectfully ask you to answer the question. 

Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Arens has made two outrageous mis- 
statements of fact. The records of this committee will not support 
Mr. Arens' statement about a general counsel of the National Labor 
Relations Board, who is now a judge of the court of appeals in the 
District of Columbia. The records of this committee will not sup- 
port 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to desist from interfering with the 
proceedings of this committee. I will read you the next rule of this 
committee. 

Mr. Witt. I don't think this committee would want 



1750 COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Willis (reading) : 

Counsel for a witness shall conduct himself in a professional, ethical, and 
proper manner. His failure to do so shall, upon a finding to that effect by a 
majority of the committee or subcommittee before which the witness is appear- 
ing, subject such counsel to disciplinary action which may include warning, 
censure, removing from the hearing room of counsel, or a recommendation of 
contempt proceedings. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. So that the record may be absokitely clear with refer- 
ence to the observations I made on persons who have been with the 
National Labor Relations Board who have been identified as hard- 
core members of the Communist Party, one of those persons who was 
in the high echelon in the Board's operation was an Assistant General 
Counsel by the name of Nathan Witt. 

Another one was a person who was then a member of the National 
Labor Relations Board by the name of Edwin Smith. 

Mr. Witt. Edwin Smith was never Chairman of the National Labor 
Relations Board, Mr. Chairman. Furthermore, I am going to object 
to ]Mr. Arens' interference with this witness' right to counsel by at- 
tacking his counsel without any reason. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed. 

Mr. Witt. And without any 

Mr. Arens. Would you answer the question ? 

Mr. Witt. Counsel has nothing to do with the purposes of this 
investigation. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, in view of the observations made 
completely in violation of the rules by counsel for this witness, I think 
it would be pertinent to make another explanation. 

There is pending before the Committee on Un-American Activities 
legislation which would preclude identified Communist agents who 
are lawyers from appearing before congressional committees or ap- 
pearing in executive departments on behalf of clients, for the reason 
that this committee has found over the course of many years that 
Communist agents who happen to have licenses to practice law do 
not actually represent the interests of their clients pursuant to the 
laws and the Constitution, but they, in truth and in fact, represent 
the interests of the international Communist conspiracy. 

Now, Mr. Scioli, would you kindly answer the question which is 
pending? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. What is the question again? 

Mr. Arens. The question that is pending is : Does the International 
Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers avail itself of the facilities 
of the National Labor Relations Board? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScioLi. I made an objection and I would like to have a ruling 
from the Chair> 

Mr. Willis. Your objection is not regarded as pertinent a^" all. 
You are ordered to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have the officers of the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Work- 
ers Union signed non-Communist afiidavits, if you know? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1751 

Mr. ScioLi. Yes, they have. 

Mr. Arens. Have the officers of the locals within this area, to your 
knowledge, signed non-Communist affidavits? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScioLi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Maurice Travis ? 

(The witness conferred with his comisel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he is a Communist? 

Mr. SciOLi. Pardon? 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he is a Communist ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever run for public office in the Buffalo area? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I object to the question under the first amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. Would you repeat that question, please ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever run for public office in the greater Buffalo 
area? 

Mr. ScioLi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. On what ticket was that ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScioLi. American Labor Party. 

Mr. Arens. At the time that you were a candidate for public office 
on the ticket of the American Labor Party, were you also a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I claim my privilege under the fifth amendment of our 
Constitution to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Joseph Chatley? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLL I invoke the fifth amendment of the Constitution to that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Charles Kegan ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment under the 
Constitution to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Now, both of these men have taken an oath here and 
have testified that while they were members of the Communist Party 
they knew you as a Communist. Were they in error on that or were 
they telling the truth ? 

Mr. ScioLi. The same answer. I invoke the fifth amendment of 
the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. SciOLi. I was born in Buffalo, N. Y., in 1905. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, a word of your education. 

Mr. SciOLi. A couple of years in high school. 

Mr. Arens. Was that all? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. Your last question? 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your education? 



1752 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. ScioLi. I took a business training course in the Bryant and 
Stratton Business College. 
Mr. Arens. In the Buffalo area? 
Mr. SciOLi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a thumbnail sketch of the principal employ- 
ments which you have had since you completed your formal educa- 
tion. I do not mean menial tasks, such as a messenger boy or some- 
thing like that, but just the principal employments you have had since 
you completed your education. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I worked for a good number of years for the Connors 
Contracting Co., who was a firm that did contract work for the Great 
Lakes Transit Corp. I also worked as a guard for the American 
Brass Co. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been connected with the Interna- 
tional Union of INIine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SciOLi. I joined the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers Union I 
believe in 1942. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been continuously employed since? 
Mr. SciOLi. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And where have you served in your employment with 
the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ? 

Mr. Witt. There is a little ambiguity. Mr. Scioli was saying, I 
think, that he joined as a member in 1942, Mr. Arens. 
Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon. 

How long have you been an employee of the International Union 
of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ? 

Mr. Scioli. I was put on the staff by the International Union of 
Mine, INIill, and Smelter Workers, I believe, in February 1944. 
Mr. Arens. Have you been continuously employed ever since ? 
Mr. Scioli. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And where have you served, in what areas ? 
Mr. Scioli. Principally in this area. 

Mr. AitENS. Have you ever been interrogated by the membership 
of the International Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers 
with respect to the question as to whether or not you are a Communist ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scioli. I object to that question under the first amendment. 
Mr. ScHERER. I ask you to direct the witness to answer. 
Mr. Willis. You are directed to answer the question, 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scioli. I invoke the fifth amendment of our Constitution to 
that question. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 
ISIr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, Mr. Chairman, if you please, is Miss 
Mintz. 

Mr. Willis. Kindly raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
vou God ? 
MissMiNTz. I do. 



COJMMUNIST ACnVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1753 

TESTIMONY OF HELEN MINTZ, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
JULES H. GOEDON 

Mr. Abens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Miss MiNTZ, My name is Helen Mintz. I live at the Hotel Touraine 
and I am a lawyer. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Miss Mintz, in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Miss Mintz. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by comisel ? 

Miss Mintz. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Gordon. My name is Jules Gordon. I am an attorney in 
Buffalo. N.Y. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been licensed to practice law in 
this vicinity or this State ? 

Miss IVIiNTz. For some years. 

Mr. AlRens. When did you receive your license to practice law ? 

Miss MiNTz. Nineteen hundred and thirty-four. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been practicing law continuously in this area 
since 1934? 

Miss Mintz. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education, please. 

Miss Mintz. "Well, I have my B. A. degree from the University of 
Buffalo, and I have my law degree from New York University. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you been treasurer of the organization known as 
the Buffalo Chapter of the Win-the-Peace Committee ? 

Miss Mintz. I believe so. 

Mr. Arens. And when was that, that you served in that capacity ? 

Miss Mintz. I would not recall at this time. It must have been 
before we went into the war, before World War II. 

Mr. Arens. In the winter of 1946, were you treasurer of this chapter, 
the Win-the-Peace chapter ? 

Miss Mintz. I have no recollection as to any dates. 

Mr. Arens. May I display to you, if you please, a photostatic re- 
production of a newspaper account : 

The Buffalo Chapter of the Win-the-Peace Committee still is alive and kicking, 
despite the unfavorable publicity resulting from certain of its activities which 
were held to savor of the Communist line. 

Miss Helen Mintz, an attorney who is a clerk in the judgment room of City 
Court and as treasurer of the chapter, an active funds collector for the movement 
locally, says — 

and, so forth. This is under date of November 14, 1946. 

Kindly look at that article as reproduced in this photostat and see 
if that refreshes your recollection. Madam. 

Miss Mintz. Do you mind giving me the question again, Mr. Arens ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, Ma'am. Does that refresh your recollection with 
reference to the time of your official connection as an officer of tliis 
organization ? 

Miss MiNTz. As to the time, yes. 



1754 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

(Document marked "Mintz Exhibit No. 1," and retained in commit- 
tee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the National Lawyers Guild? 

Miss Mintz. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of the National 
Lawyers Guild ? 

Miss Mintz. I wouldn't recall just exactly how long. Some years. 

Mr. Arens, I beg your pardon ? 

Miss Mintz. Some years. I couldn't recall at this time when I 
first joined. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever held the post of chairman of a com- 
mittee, or officership in any capacity, in the National Lawyers Guild ? 

Miss Mintz. No, I have not. 

Mr. ScHERER. For the record, Mr. Counsel, the National Lawyers 
Guild has been cited as a Communist front ? 

Mr. Arens. The legal arm of the Communist Party or something 
like that. 

Miss Mintz, are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Mintz. I am not now and never have been. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in the presence of this witness, I re- 
spectfully suggest that another witness be sworn. 

Mr. Kinsey, would you kindly come forward ? 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear, sir, that the testimony you are about to give 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LOYD E. KINSEY 

Mr. Arens. Just have a seat, please, sir. lOndly identify yourself 
by name, residence, and occupation. 

Mr. KiNSEY. My name is Loyd Kinsey. I live in Angola, N. Y. I 
am an automobile salesman, mechanic and salesman. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kinsey, have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Kinsey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time were you a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kinsey. Approximately 1938 to 1947. _ 

Mr. Arens. I expect to interrogate you in greater detail a little 
later on, Mr. Kinsey, but could you tell us just at the moment the posts 
which you have held in the Communist Party of the Buffalo area ? 

Mr. Kinsey. I held three different positions. The first was the 
organizational secretary of the Erie County Communist Party. Sec- 
ondly, as chairman or organizer of the Erie County Communist Party, 
and third as the coordinator of the Steel Section of the Communist 
Party of western New York. 

Mr. ScHERER. I did not hear what was the first position he held. 
Did you say organizational secretary ? 

Mr. Kinsey. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient for you to keep your voice up a 
little bit, Mr. Kinsey ? 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIES EN" THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1755 

Mr. KixsEY. I can't get it up much more, I don't believe. 

Mr. Arens. Perliaps you can speak a little more slowly. 

Did you, during the course of your membership in the Communist 
Party, know a person as a Communist, to a certainty 

Mr. KiNSEY. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Arens. By the name of Helen Mintz ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Do you see in the courtroom today the person whom 
you knew as a Communist by the name of Helen Mintz ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify her. 

Mr. KiNSEY. The lady is sitting here. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Kinsey, we want you to be absolutely certain 
on this and if there is any doubt in your mind, remove it from your 
observations. 

Under what circumstances and what were the facts which have 
caused you today to take an oath before this committee and lay your 
liberty on the line and testify that you knew this lady seated here, 
Helen Mintz, as a Communist ? 

Mr. Kinsey. The fact, Mr. Director, that as the organizer of the 
Erie County Communist Party I attended Communist Party club 
meeting at the Hotel Touraine at Miss Mintz's apartment. 

Mr. Arens. Was that a meeting, or were those meetings, at which 
only Imown, vouched-for members of the Communist Party were in 
attendance ? 

Mr. Kinsey. Only known and vouched-for Communist Party 
members. 

Mr. Arens. Was Miss Helen Mintz, the lady seated two seats to 
your left there, who has just been testifying, was she in attendance 
at those sessions ? 

Mr. Kinsey. She was. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your background and your experience 
and knowledge of the techniques and operation of the Communist 
Party, do you have any doubt in your mind whatsoever today, while 
3^011 are under oath, that the lady seated two seats to your left was 
to a certainty a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kinsey. I have not, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF HELEN MINTZ— Resumed 

Mr. Arens. Miss Mintz, you have just heard the testimony of the 
gentleman, Mr. Kinsey, have you not ? 

Miss Mintz. Yes, I have, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. We want to give you an opportunity now, in the light 
of that testimony, to affirm or deny or qualify or make any statements 
which you should like to say. 

Miss Mintz. I have this to say, Mr. Arens. This witness is either 
lying or he is mistaken. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Arens, may I ask a question. Do you laiow this 
witness ? 

Miss Mintz. Now that I see him, he looks vaguely familiar. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he ever in your apartment in the hotel ? 

Miss Mintz. Not to my best recollection. 



1756 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. ScHERER, "Wliat hotel did you say you lived at ? 

Miss MiNTZ. I live at the Hotel Touraine. I have lived there for a 
good many years, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. How long have you lived there ? 

Miss MiNTz. Since August of 1941. 

Mr. ScHERER. And you have had an apartment there continuously 
since 1941 ? 

Miss MiNTz. Yes, sir, that is my home, 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you telling this committee that you do not recall 
ever having seen this witness in your apartment ? 

Miss MiNTz. That is to my best recollection, yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. You do not deny that he was there, do you ? 

Miss MiNTz. I have no recollection that he was ever there. It is 
on the basis of that recollection that I will have to deny it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you deny his testimony that you held in your 
apartment, while you were there, meetings that were confined solely 
to known vouched- for members of the Communist Party ? 

MissMiNTZ, Absolutely. 

Mr. ScHERER. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held, ma'am 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Go ahead and complete your conference. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Are there any sessions of which you have a recollection 
of being in attendance with Mr. Kinsey of any character ? 

Miss IVIiNTZ. I want to say this, Mr. Arens : This may answer your 
question. I have belonged to many organizations because I have al- 
ways been considered a joiner. I have attended all kinds of meetings. 
None of them, to my best recollection, ever were closed party meetings, 
as you say, of the Communist Party. 

They were never Communist meetings of any kind, to my knowledge. 
As to whether any Communist may have been present at any of those 
meetings, I had no knowledge at that time and certainly have no 
knowledge or recollection at this time. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held any of these meetings that you have just 
been describing in your home or in your apartment or your room, 
wlierever you liA^ed ? 

Miss MiNTZ. Meetings of some kind ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Miss MiNTz. When I moved into the hotel, I entertained consid- 
erably. 

Mr. Arens. I do not mean social gatherings. 

Miss MiNTz. A good many of the organizations that I belonged to, 
if I was a program chairman or on the board, if they very often wanted 
to have a meeting downtown, mine would be the convenient place. 
I was very happy for them to come over to my place rather than for 
me to go to someone else's home. 

Mr. Arens. Where do you live ? 

Miss MiNTz. I live at the Hotel Touraine. It is a very convenient 
downtown address. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have an apartment there ? 

Miss MiNTZ. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Aeens. How many rooms ? 



COMMUNIST ACTTIVmBS EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1757 

Miss IVIiNTz. I have just what you would call a sitting room and 
a bath. 

Mr, Arens. Do you have a recollection of any sessions of this char- 
acter which you have been describing at your suite of rooms at the 
Hotel Tourame, at which Mr. Kinsey was in attendance? 

Miss MiNTz. I have no recollection of any such kind of meetings. 

TESTIMONY OF LOYD E. KINSEY— Eesumed 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kinsey, so that this record may be abundantly clear, 
I should like to invite your attention again to the observations made 
here by Miss Mintz. 

You have heard her observation with respect to various sessions 
of a non- Communist variety. Does this observation by this lady 
in any way qualify your identification which you seem to be so posi- 
tive of a few moments ago ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. It does not change a thing. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Kinsey. It does not change anything. 

Mr. Arens. In the light of the testimony that has transpired here, 
do you now, while you are under oath, without equivocation, without 
qualification whatsoever, swear to Almighty God that this lady to 
your left here was, to a certainty, a member of the Communist Party 
and in attendance in closed sessions in which only known Communists 
were admitted ? 

Mr. Kinsey. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall, Mr. Kinsey, the number of sessions of 
this variety which you have been describing in which only known, 
identified, vouched-for Communists were admitted, in which this lady, 
Miss Mintz, was in attendance? 

Mr. Kinsey. I am positive of three. 

Mr. Arens. And can you tell us the approximate year or years in 
which these meetings were held ? 

Mr. Kinsey. 1945 and 1946. 

Mr. Arens. "V^^iat position did you have in the Communist Party 
in this vicinity at the time? 

Mr. Kinsey. In 1915 I would have been the organizational secre- 
tary. In 1946 the county chairman or organizer. 

Mr. Arens. And do you recall the specific places where these, I be- 
lieve you said, three sessions were held of closed party meetings at 
which this lady, Miss Mintz, was in attendance ? 

Mr. Kinsey. The Hotel Touraine, Bulfalo. 

Mr. Arens. Were all three of these sessions to which you have been 
alluding held in her apartment ? 

Mr. Kinsey. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the approximate floor on which her 
apartment is located or was located at the time ? 

Mr. IviNSEY. That I could not be sure of anymore. 

Mr. Arens. Were you obliged to take an elevator to reach the 
apartment ? 

Mr. Kinsey. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. How many other persons were in attendance in these 
sessions ? Was it a large gathering or a small gathering ? 

Mr. Kinsey. Some 6 or 8 people is all. 



1758 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Do yon recall the names of any persons who, to your 
certain knowledge, were in attendance at any of these sessions in this 
lady's apartment, these Communist sessions which you have been 
describing ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes ; for one there was a Mrs. Lyle Gordonier. 

Mr. ScHERER. What was that name? 

]\Ir. KiNSEY. IMrs. Lyle Gordonier. 

Mr. Arens. I take it in passing now, you identify her as a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. That is right. Milton Kogovin. 

Mr. Arens. And I take it you here and now identify him as a Com- 
nmnist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. He has been identified on this record before. 

Mr. KiNSEY. I can remember those two very clearly, and the others 
I would not be sure of at the moment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kinsey, I need not, I am sure, impress upon you 
the seriousness of the situation which prevails in this session right 
now. Are there any factual circumstances which come to your mind 
respecting these sessions in this lady's apartment, Communist sessions 
that you have testified about ? By factual situations, do you recall any 
particular discussions, any theme at the time ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. No; I can't for this reason: That has been 11 or 12 
years ago. Things that happened at that time would not be positive, 
as to the particular subjects discussed at those meetings. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall at what time of day the sessions were held ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. They were held in the evening, probably 8 o'clock or so, 

Mr. Arens. In these particular sessions, I take it you were in a posi- 
tion of leadership? Were you giving orders to the other comrades 
there on assignments or something of that kind ? 

Mr. Kinsey. Yes ; something of that nature. Or I would lead dis- 
cussion of the group or to convey certain messages from the Erie 
County party to the club. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any particular assignments you might 
have made about this particularly, any assignments you may have made 
to Miss Mint z? 

Mr. Kinsey. No ; I don't. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt a moment ? 

Mr. Willis. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF HELEN MINTZ— Resumed 

Mr. ScHERER. Miss Mintz, do you knoAv jMrs. Lyle Gordonier ? 

Miss MiNTZ. That name sounds vaguely familiar, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Just vaguel;^ familiar ? 

Miss Mintz. Vaguely familiar. That is a long time ago. If I knew 
her, it may have been from one of the numerous organizations I be- 
longed to. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you recall her ever having been in your apartment ? 

Miss Mintz. I couldn't say, sir ; no. I have no recollection as to that. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know Mr. Milton Eogovin ? 

Miss Mintz. Do I know Mr. Rogovin ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1759 

Miss MiNTz. Yes ; I know him. He is quite a well-known optome- 
trist in the city, I have taken glasses from him. In fact, my reading 
glasses. They have quite an extensive business there and they give 
you a very good price on glasses. You save a few dollars. I imagine 
that is the reason I went and most everybody else goes there. They 
give you very good service. 

Mr. ScHERER. Has he ever been in your apartment? 

Miss MiNTZ. Not to my knowledge, no, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you know that Milton Rogovin was a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Miss MiNTZ. I did not know that, sir, and I do not know that to this 
day. 

Mr. ScHERER. You did not know that he has been identified as a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss MiNTz. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. This is the first time that you learned that he was 
a member of the Communist Party, when it was mentioned by Mr. 
Arens here in the hearing room ? 

Miss MiNTZ. Excuse me. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTz. All I know is that he was identified as such, either 
this morning or yesterday, I don't recall. But I do not know him 
to be. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you belong to any organizations with Mr. 
Rogovin ? 

Miss MiNTZ. I have no recollection of that, sir. I could not answer 
that. It may be. A lot of people were members of a good many of 
the organizations that I belonged to and belong to today. 

Mr. ScHERER. As far as you know now, you have no recollection of 
ever having been a member of the organization of which Mr. Rogovin 
was also a member ? 

Miss MiNTz. I may have been. I would not say no. I know Mr. 
Rogovin is a member of the Buffalo Chamber Music Society. I see 
him at concerts, so I know he is there. He is a series holder. But 
anything that far back, I would not have any recollection to say one 
way or the other. 

Mr. ScHERER. You knew him the last time you bought glasses from 
him, did you not? 

Miss MiNTZ. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you belong to any organization with him at the 
present time ? 

Miss MiNTz. I don't think so, though I have seen his family attend 
an occasional meeting of the Buffalo Hiking Club a few years ago. 
That is the only thing I can recall offhand. I was a member of that 
organization for some time. 

Mr. ScHERER. But you have not met with Mr. 

Miss MiNTZ. I see him at concerts. That is all I can tell you about 
him. 

Mr. ScHERER. But you have not met with Mr. Rogovin in the last 
few years, have you ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. That is, as a member of some organzation. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 



1760 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Miss MiNTz. I don't recall that I met with him on any organiza- 
tional affairs within the last few years and I can't recall whether I 
ever did. 

Mr. ScHERER. 'Wlien was the last time that he was in your apart- 
ment? 

Miss MiNTZ. I don't recall that Mr. Rogovin ever was in my apart- 
ment. 

Mr. ScHERER. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Ma'am, when did you learn, if you have learned, 
that the National Lawyers Guild, of which you have been a member 
for some years, was cited as a Communist front ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. As the legal arm of the Communist Party, also. 

Miss MiNTZ. Mr. Arens, cited by whom? 

Mr. Arens. Did you have knowledge prior to the time of this 
hearing today that the National Lawyers Guild had been cited as a 
Communist front by any agency of the Government of the United 
States? 

(The wtness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTz. Mr. Arens, could you amplify that? I do not want 
to appear to be splitting hairs, but I don't know 

Mr. Arens. Ma'am, have you ever known, prior to the time you 
entered this session with us today, that the National Lawyers Guild, 
of which you have been a member for many years, has been cited as a 
Communist front by some agency of the Government of the United 
States? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTZ. Mr. Arens, as long as you are using the word ' cited 
I don't know what cited means. All I can say is that there are some 
people who consider it as such a front, but I do not know that it has 
been cited. I know it has been involved in litigation with the Attor- 
ney General's Office. , j. ,-, tt -i. j 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that the Attorney General of the United 
States has cited, has listed, the National Lawyers Guild as a Commu- 
nist front? T .. J T 

Miss MiNTZ. I have no knoAvledge that it has ever been listed. 1 
remember reading in the paper the remarks of the Attorney General 
to some bar association. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? • i , 

Miss MiNTz. That is all I know about it, that it has been considered 
so by the Attorney General's Office, but I don't know that it has been 
cited. That is all I can say. 

Mr. Arens. "Wlien did you obtain the information that the Attorney 
General of the United States has listed or cited or condemned the 
National Lawyers Guild as a Communist front? About when did 
you learn all that ? 

(Tlie witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTZ. To the best of my recollection, Mr. Arens, I saw some- 
thing in the paper to the effect that the Attorney General had made 
a speech before a meeting of the American Bar Association 

Mr. Arens. ^^^len? -r i • i i 

Miss I^IiNTZ. —as to when he was going to do. I think several 
years ago, to my best recollection. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREIA 1761 

Mr. Aeens. Did that arouse your curiosity as to the nature of the 
organization with which you were tlien allied ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Is there a question pending, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Miss MiNTz. Mr. Arens, the fact that the Attorney General has 
named the National Lawyers Guild to my mind does not prove any- 
thing. The Attorney General 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

Miss MiNTz. The Attorney General 

Mr. Arens. Just answer the question: Did that arouse your 
curiosity ? 

Miss MiNTz. No ; it did not. I would like to say why. The Attor- 
ney General has named a lot of organizations which I consider fine 
organizations. It has never been proved as such. I consider it a very 
fine organization. 

Mr. Arens. How many organizations 

Mr. Scherer. Just a minute. Let us see about the National Law- 
3'ers Guild. It has been cited three time as a Communist front. It 
was first cited as a Communist-front organization, the first time, back 
in 1944 by a Special Committee on Un-American Activities, House 
Report 1311, on CIO Political Action Committee. 

Then it was cited the second time as a Communist front, as the 
foremost legal bulwark of the Communist Party, its front organiza- 
tions, and controlled unions, and which, since its inception, has never 
failed to rally to the legal defense of the Communist Party and indi- 
vidual members thereof, including known espionage agents. That 
finding was made by the House Committee on Un-American Activities 
in its report on September 21, 1950. 

The third time was by the Senate Internal Security Committee on 
April 23, as late as 1956. The Senate Internal Security Committee 
says the National Lawyers Guild is : To defend the cases of Commu- 
nist lawbreakers, fronts have been devised making special appeals in 
behalf of civil liberties and reaching out far beyond the confines of the 
Communist Party itself. Among these organizations is the National 
Lawyers Guild. When the Communist Party itself is under fire, 
these offer a bulwark of protection. I think the record should disclose 
those facts. 

Mr. Arens. Now, how many organizations which have been cited as 
Communist fronts by an agency of the Government of the United 
States have you belonged to after the citation was announced ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Miss MiNTz. I would not know at this time. 

Mr. Arens. Have you belonged to some others besides the National 
Lawyers Guild ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Miss Mintz. You would have to name some specific organizations, 
Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. I could not tell you the ones you have belonged to. I 
am asking you if you have knowledge of some that you have belonged 
to, other than the National Lawyers Guild, after they were cited. 



1762 COMMUNIST ACnVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Miss MiNTZ. I have no recollection at the moment. I don't re- 
member. As I said before, I have belonged to many organizations 
and I belong to many organizations now. 

Mr. Arens. Didn't the situation or didn't the information that 
came to you that the Attorney General had made this speech you 
talked about condemning the National Lawyers Guild as a Commu- 
nist operation, or Communist-front organization, didn't that stimu- 
late your curiosity as to the nature of the organization you might 
be in so that you might want to look around and see if it isn't quite 
what it appears to be ? 

Miss MiNTz. I thought I already answered that question, Mr. Arens. 
You asked substantially the same question before. 

Mr. Arens. Then answer it again, ma'am, because I am not satis- 
fied with your answer. 

Miss MiNTZ. The mere fact that the Attorney General made that 
statement does not prove anything, to my mind, as a lawyer, no, Mr. 
Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Did it not even arouse your curiosity a little bit ? 

Miss MiNTZ. The Attorney General has attempted to condemn a 
good many organizations tliat I consider fine organizations. They 
have never proved that they were Communist dominated or Commu- 
nist fronts. They have certainly never proved it to my satisfaction. 

Mr. Scherer. Let me say 

Miss MiNTZ. That would not arouse my suspicion. 

Mr. Scherer. The citations of the two committees of Congress were 
made after extensive hearings, hearings which took a great deal more 
time than the present hearings in which we are engaged. 

Mr. Arens. Can you now name some of the organizations that have 
been cited as Communist front or as Communist fronts which are not 
Communist fronts ? 

You have given a sweeping statement here as to a number of 
them. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTZ. At this moment, I can't recall any, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Even though you felt in your own mind that the At- 
torney General may not have had sufficient proof upon which to make 
his assertion that the National Lawyers Guild was Communist con- 
trolled or dominated, didn't it arouse a little suspicion within your 
mind that you might want to look around and see and check and find 
out what he Imew about it ? 

(The witness conferred Avith her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTZ. Mr. Arens, any suspicions I may have had in my 
mind at that time, I fail to see that there is any pertinency to this 
investigation at all. 

Mr. Arens. Are you declining to answer the question ? 

Miss MiNTZ. I think I should. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
now be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. Yes. I will direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with lier counsel.) 

Miss Mintz. What was the question, Mr. Arens? I sort of lost 
the question. What was the question, Mr. Arens ? 



COMMUNIST ACTTIVmES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1763 

Mr. Arens. Let us start another round, if you please. Have you 
solicited information, to your knowledge, from the Embassy of the 
Soviet Union, solicited any bulletins ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss MiNTz. "Wliat information are you talking about, Mr. Arens? 

Mr. Arens. Any bulletins. Have you ever solicited any bulletins 
from the Soviet Embassy here in the United States ? 

Miss MiNTz. Are you referring to an information factual sheet 
that they used to put out? 

Mr. Arens. Well, that would be one ; yes, ma'am. Have you solicited 
any such ? 

Miss MiNTz. I got that in the mail for some years. They were 
sending it throughout the area. Then if my recollection serves me 
correctly, there came a time when they sent cards to the people who 
were on their mailing list, asking if they wanted to be continued. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you receive this? 

Miss MiNTz. I have no recollection as to the time at all, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness will be excused. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest now, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. 
Kinsey assume the principal witness chair and let us proceed with 
further interrogation of him. 

TESTIMONY OF LOYD E. KINSEY— Resumed 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kinsey, as this record has been interrupted here 
with colloquy and another witness, I think it would be clearer if you 
would kindly start over again at the moment by giving us your name, 
residence, and occupation. 

Mr. Kinsey. My name is Loyd Kinsey. I live at Angola, N. Y. I 
am employed as a salesman and mechanic in an automobile repair shop. 

Mr. Arens. Now tell us, if you please, sir, whether or not you have 
been a member of the Communist Party and, if so, over what period 
of time. 

Mr. Kinsey. I have, sir. I was a member of the Communist Party 
in the years of approximately 1938 to June 1947. 

Mr. Arens. Were you ideologically identified with the party ? 

Mr. Kinsey. I was. 

Mr. Arens. And where did you join the party ? 

Mr. Kinsey. In Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. And tell us, if you please, sir, the highlights of your 
career in the Communist Party, from the standpoint of the posts which 
you held. 

Mr. Kinsey. The important posts I held within the party were 
organizational secretary of the Erie County party and later the chair- 
man or organizer of the Erie County Communist Party and later than 
that, and finally, steel coordinator of the Steel Section of the Com- 
munist Party in western New York. 

When I speak of western New York, that means anything this side 
of New York City. 

Mr. Arens. What caused you to disassociate yourself from the 
Communist Party ? 

97795— 57— pt. 2 5 



1764 OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. KiNSEY. Well, I began to learn for myself that it was not the 
type of organization I thought I had joined organizationally. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent during the course of your career in the 
Communist Party did the Communist apparatus undertake to em- 
phasize heavy industry, particularly steel ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Well, that was a key point being worked for by the 
party, generally. When I speak generally, I don't only mean of New 
York State. It was a national question as to the concentration of the 
party in basic industry, using steel as No. 1 and, I believe, auto, No. 2, 
and on down the line. 

They had some 5 or 6 basic industries. 

Mr. Arens. Before I forget about it, since you broke from the Com- 
munist Party, you have never testified publicly in a Smith Act case, 
have you? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Nor have you testified before a congressional com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I have not, 

Mr. Arens. But you have testified, have you not, for your Gov- 
ernment, for the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the De- 
partment of Justice, in certain deportation cases ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I have. 

Mr. Arens. In which the Government has solicited your testimony 
and has vouched for your veracity ; is that correct ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I have. 

Mr. Arens. I don't want your testimony today to unnecessarily 
duplicate the theme which has been testified to by other witnesses 
here, but I should like to ask you if there are persons in the course 
of your activity in the Communist Party whom you knew to a cer- 
tainty to be Communists. 

Mr. KiNSEY. Well, there were quite a number of those. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to interrogate you with reference to a 
number of these people. I will call some names here, and you tell 
us, first of all, whether or not to a certainty you knew that person 
to be a Communist and, if so, just a word of identification. 

James Annaccone ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. James Annaccone, yes, was at that time, as I recall 
him, the organizer for the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine 
Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Charles Warren Brown ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Charles Warren Brown was a redcap at New York 
Central radio station in Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Michael Clune and his wife ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. When I knew Michael Clmie he was organizer for the 
CIO under Hugh Thompson. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Kinsey. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Kinsey. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Samuel Coleman ? 

Mr. Ejnsey. Samuel Coleman was the chairman of the Erie County 
Communist Party ahead of me, and I succeeded him. Later he became 



COMMinaST ACTIVrnEiS EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREIA 1765 

the organizational secretary for the western New York subdistrict of 
the New York Communist Party. 

Mr. Willis. What do you mean organizational secretary ? Organi- 
zational secretary of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Eussell J. DePasquale ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Kussell DePasquale worked in Bethlehem Steel, I 
believe in a bar mill, as I recall it. 

Mr. Arens. Incidentally, you knew these people whose names I 
have just been calling, did you know each and every one of them to 
a certainty to be a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Including Russell DePasquale ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. The names that I call off now, as you proceed, tell us 
whether to your certain knowledge you can identify them as Com- 
munists. Charles A. Doyle ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes, Charles Doyle, when I first knew him was or- 
ganizer for the Steelworkers and later became associated with the 
United Gas, Coke, and Chemical Workers, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. And you knew him as a Communist? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Correct. 

Mr. Arens. Emanuel Fried ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Emanuel Fried was an organizer for the United 
Electrical and Machine Workers. 

Mr. Arens. And you knew him as a Conununist ? 

Mr. Ejnsey. I did. 

Mr. Willis. "Wlien you say organizer, do you mean in the labor 
movement ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers was 
a CIO organization. 

Mr. Arens. Luther Graves, did you know him as a Communist? 

Mr. Ejnsey. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And a word of description ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Luther Graves worked at the American Brass Co. 

Mr. Arens. Joseph Green ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. He worked at one of the foundries within the 
city, and I can't recall which one it was. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Gertrude Hassler? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes ; one of the oldtimers. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know her as a Communist? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Diantha Hoag ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Archie Jackson ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Can you give us a word of description of Archie Jack- 
son? Wlien you say "Yes," you mean yes, you think you knew him 
as a Communist ? 

Mr. Kjnsey. Yes ; I knew him as a Communist. I can't remember 
where he was working. 



1766 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Edward Landy, did you know liim as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. He was organizer for United Electrical, Radio, 
and Machine Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Donald Lindquist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

]Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Right. 

Mr. Arens. And a word of description ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I can't remember where he was employed. 

Mr. Arens. Hattie Lumpkin, did you know her as a Communist? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Frank Mayer, did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. IviNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you know Frank Mayer, where did he 
work? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Willard Corp. 

Mr. Arens. Vincent Facile, did you know him as a Communist? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where did he work ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Westinghouse. 

Mr. Arens. Norton Putter, did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. And where did he work ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Well, for who he worked for, I don't know. He was 
a drug salesman at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Charles Regan, did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Charles Regan ? Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Milton Rogovin, did you know him ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And where did he work ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. He was an optometrist. He had his own office in the 
Root Building on Chippewa Street in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Norman Ross, did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Joseph Scioli, did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Robert Williams, did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Where did he work ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. I believe it was Bethlehem Steel. Either Bethlehem 
or Republic. I believe it was Bethlehem Steel. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any other person who, to a certainty, you 
knew to be a Communist ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. Certainly. There was a lot more than that. 

Mr. Arens. I would respectfully suggest that you keep in touch 
with us. We will keep in touch with you from the standpoint of any 
further identification of which you may be possessed to a certainty. 

Mr. Chairman, the other testimony of this witness, I conclude, on 
the basis of the interrogation held by the staff informally, would only 
be cumulative of what we have here. If you would like to get it into 
it, we can. 

Mr. Willis. The staff already has it ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., ARE'A 1767 

Mr. Aeens. Yes; I just don't want to encumber the record at this 
session with repetition. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that that 
would conclude the interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. KiNSEY. I would like to make one short statement, if I may. 
I want it clearly understood that I have not been coerced in any 
manner whatsoever to give this testimony. I did it of my own free 
will. 

I did appear here because of a subpena, but that is the normal pro- 
cedure. Certainly, I have not been coerced at all. 

Mr. Arens. I have never laid eyes on you, or you laid eyes on me, 
prior to an hour before we came into this session this afternoon. But 
you have been in session and have been interrogated staffwise by other 
members of the staff ; is that correct ? 

Mr. KiNSEY. That is correct. 

Mr. Willis, Let me say in view of the obvious importance of your 
testimony, our staff was very careful in talking to you and making up 
their own minds about the whole thing. 

Thank you so much. You are excused. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I move that this subcommittee rec- 
ommend to the full committee that the testimony of Helen Mintz and 
all other testimony referring to her be submitted to the Department 
of Jusice for consideration of possible perjury. 

Mr, Willis. That course will certainly be followed. I suggest a 
5-minute recess at this point. 

(Brief recess.) 

(The following members of the subcommittee were present at the 
taking of the recess : Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, 
and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will be in order. 

(Present at the convening of the session were Representatives Ed- 
win E. Willis and Gordon H. Scherer.) 

Mr. Willis. Call your next witness, please, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Israel Levine, please come forward. 

Mr. AVillis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Levine. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ISRAEL LEVINE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
HAROLD FAHRINGER, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr, Levine, My name is Israel Levine, I reside at 622 East Ferry 
Street, and I am a papercutter, 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, please ? 

Mr. Levine. At the Rosen Printing Co. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr, Levine, in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Levine. Yes, sir. 



1768 OOMMimiST ACTlVll^lES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Fahringer. My name is Harold Fahringer. I reside at 195 
Linwood Avenue. 

Mr. Arens. How lon^^ have you been employed at your present 
place of employment? 

Mr. Levine. Approximately 21/2 years. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you employed immediately prior to that 
time ? 

Mr. Levine. At several printing plants here in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time were you employed in these 
several printing plants ? 

Mr. Levine. Approximately in the 6-month period. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been employed at Bethlehem Steel? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. No, sir; I have never been employed at Bethlehem 
Steel. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever made application for employment at 
Bethlehem Steel ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the basis of the first amendment. 

Mr. Arens. The basis of what amendment? 

Mr. Levine. The first and fifth amendments, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Which provision of the fifth amendment are you in- 
voking, please, sir? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. The entire fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Levine. I said the entire fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. How much education have you had ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. The same answer on that one, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you had any college education? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. What was that question again, sir? 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. LE^^NE. The question again ? 

Mr. Arens. What education have you had ? 

Mr. Levine. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee while you are under oath the education you have had, you 
would be supplying information which might be used against you 
in a criminal proceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Sir, I feel that it might put me into an unjust prosecu- 
tion, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Would the prosecution be unjust? 

Mr. Levine. To my mind, yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Then I respectfully suggest that you answer the ques- 
tion and tell this committee now what your education is. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



coMMinsnsT AcrivrriEs in the buffalo, n. y., area 1769 

Mr. Levine. I very respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the basis of the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, I would like to display to you a photostatic 
copy of your application for employment as an employee at the Bethle- 
hem Steel Corp., signed "Israel Levine." 

Please look at this and see if you can't help this committee by veri- 
fying the authenticity of the reproduction of your signature there. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I refuse to acknowledge or recognize that document 
upon the rights I have under the first and fifth amendment of the Con- 
stitution. 

(Document marked "Israel Levine Exhibit No. 1," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact that this is your signature and this is a photostatic re- 
production of the original application which you made for employment 
in 1954, at the Bethlehem Steel Corp. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer on the basis of the previous answer. 

Mr. Fahringer. Mr. Director, may I have permission to request of 
the committee that any photographs or films to be used in television 
not be taken ? 

Mr. Arens. That request will be observed, sir, during the testimony 
of the witness. 

In this application for employment at Bethlehem Steel, you don't 
list any education beyond high school, is that correct? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I believe I have answered that question before, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Answer it again, then, please. 

Mr. Levine. On the basis of the previous statement under the first 
and fifth amendment, sir I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Levine. I decline to answer that question on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic copy of your scholas- 
tic attainments which we have received from City College. Kindly 
look at this and see if that refreshes your recollection and see if you 
can be good enough to verify the authenticity of that document. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Sir, again I refuse to recognize or identify that doc- 
ument. 

(Document marked "Israel Levine Exhibit No. 2," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you been chairman of the Academic Freedom 
Commission of Metropolitan New York Kegion, National Student 
Association ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Levine. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the basis — 
on the first amendment and its implications there. It goes into my 
opinions and beliefs which I take as my rights under the first amend- 
ment, sir. 



1770 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic reproduction of the 
Communist Daily Worker of December 23, 1947. 

This document lists one I. Levine, chairman of the Academic Free- 
dom Commission of the Metropolitan New York Region, National 
Student Association. 

Kindly look at that document and see if that refreshes your recol- 
lection with reference to your participation in that enterprise. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his coimsel.) 

Mr. Levine. Sir, I decline to answer that question. I believe that 
the line of questioning is outside the jurisdiction of this committee. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only ground on which you refuse to answer 
that question ? 

Mr. Levine. No, sir. I use the first and the fifth, sir. 

(Document marked "Israel Levine Exhibit No. 3," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, we have no further questions of this 
witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Levine. Thank you. 

Mr. Fahringer. For the record, am I to be assured that the pic- 
tures that were taken here before we requested that they not be taken, 
will not be shown on television ? 

Mr. Arens. The committee has no control over the pictures. 

Mr. Willis. You did not make any request. 

Mr. Fahringer. I requested while the pictures were being taken, sir. 

Mr. Willis. I did not know. Here is the rule. They will have to 
respect it. The rule is this : As long as a witness is not sworn, he is 
not under our jurisdiction. The press and papers can blast him all 
they please. We have only control after they testify. So whatever 
pictures were taken before, I have no jurisdiction. 

Mr. Fahringer. My only request 

Mr. Willis. Did you hear? 

Mr. Arens. Some time during the course of the proceedings, Mr. 
Chairman, the counsel protested that pictures were being taken and 
made the request 

Mr. Willis. Were you the one who talked to me ? 

Mr. Fahringer. Yes. I talked to you outside and I rose while the 
pictures were being taken. 

Mr. Scherer. I heard him, and the press stopped when he made the 
request. 

Mr. Fahringer. Thank you. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness will be Mr. Vincent Facile. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Pacile. I do. 



COMMUlSnST ACTIVITIEiS IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREIA 1771 

TESTIMONY OF VINCENT PACILE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
DWIGHT CAMPBELL, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Campbelx,. May I request, please, that no pictures be taken 
during his testimony ? 

Mr. Willis. That will be followed. 

Mr. Pacile. Vincent Facile, Westinghouse. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere? 

Mr. Pacile. Cheektowaga plant. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Pacile, in response to 
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pacile. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Pacile. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Campbell. Dwight Campbell, 1800 Kand Building, Buffalo, 
N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at Westinghouse, 
Mr. Pacile? 

Mr. Pacile. Over 11 years. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Pacile. As a wireman. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you employed prior to your employment 
presently at Westinghouse? 

Mr. Pacile. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. Where was your previous employment ? 

Mr. Pacile. Before I worked at Westinghouse ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pacile. Sloan Koofing. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Pacile. A roofing company. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Pacile. Sloan, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of a labor organization ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of a labor organization ? 

Mr. Pacile. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. "\'\niat labor organization ? 

Mr. Pacile. IUE-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever held an office, post of authority, in 
lUE-Ciq? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pacile. I was a steward there. 

Mr. Arens. Plave you ever been on the negotiating committee ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Campbell. I believe, sir, the witness may have some confusion 
as to time. I believe your questions were addressed to the lUE ? 



1772 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Aeens. Have you ever been on the negotiating committee of 
any labor organization? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pacile. I decline on the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an official or an officer in lUE ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pacile. I feel that I have to decline on the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that if you told us the truth on that ques- 
tion, you would be giving information that might be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Pacile. I feel, again, that I have to use the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Pacile. I decline on the basis of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Charles Eegan and Mr. Loyd Kinsey both took 
an oath before this committee in the course of this last day or so and 
swore that while they were members of the Communist Party they 
knew you as a Communist. 

We would like to give you an opportunity, now while you are under 
oath, to deny it. Do you care to avail yourself of that opportmiity ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Pacile. I decline on the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. That concludes the staff interrogation of this witness, 
Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Floyd Fried. 

Mr. Willis. Raise your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give shall be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Fried. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FLOYD F. FRIED, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
DWIGHT CAMPBELL, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Fried. Floyd Fried, 39 East Oakwood Place, Buffalo, N. Y. ; 
and I am a boring mill operator at the Cheektowaga plant of the 
Westinghouse Corp. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed there ? 

Mr. Fried. One week short of 10 years. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Fried. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Fried. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself, please. 

Mr. Campbell. Dwight Campbell, Jr., 1800 Rand Building, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make written application for employment at 
Westinghouse in 1947 ? 

Mr. Fried. Yes, I did. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIEiS IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1773 

Mr. Arens. May I display to you a photostatic copy of the appli- 
cation which we have procured from Westinghouse, on which your 
signature appears and see if you can help this committee by verifying 
the authenticity of that document. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Fried. I decline to identify this document on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendments. I do not think it is pertinent to this 
inquiry, also. 

(Document marked "Fried Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I would like to call your attention to something here. 
In this document, we see the following : "The Communist Party. Are 
you a member of the Communist Party?" We see here after that 
"No." 

Then I see here the signature of Floyd F. Fried, 10-7-47. Did you 
represent to the Westinghouse Corp. in 1947 by fixing your signature 
to a document that you were not then a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer, basing my declination on the first 
and fifth amendments, that part of the fifth amendment which says I 
do not have to testify against myself. 

Mr, Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you 
made your application for employment at Westinghouse in 1947 ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Joseph Chatley ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Charles Regan ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. These two men took an oath in the course of the last 
day or so and swore before this committee that they knew you as a 
Communist. Were they in error or were they telling the truth ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline on the basis of the first and fifth amendments, 
that part of the fifth amendment which says I do not have to testify 
in matters like that concerning myself. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Fried. That part of the fifth amendment which says that a per- 
son does not have to testify against himself. 

Mr. Arens. In what type of proceeding ? 

Mr. Fried. Mr. Chairman, I think that question is not pertinent to 
the inquiry. 

Mr. Arens. You know, of course, that the fifth amendment is prop- 
erly invoked if you honestly apprehend that the information could be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding. Do you understand that? 

Have you been a candidate for public office in the course of the last 
few years? More specifically, have you run for public office on the 
American Labor Party ticket here ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer on the basis of the first amendment 
and fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. What has been your educational background ? 



1774 COMMUNIST AcnvrriEs in the buffalo, n. y., area 

Mr. Fried. Well, I have almost 4 years credit in college, but I did 
not secure that all at one time. I got approximately 2% years of it 
later, after I was married, even, as part time going to Millard Fill- 
more School here in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Was your employment in Buffalo procured for you, 
or suggested to you, by any person known by you to be a Communist? 

Mr. Fried. I went to Westinghouse because Westinghouse had a 
third shift, and it was necessary for me at the time to go to the Uni- 
versity of Buffalo day school. That was the only reason I went there. 

Mr. Arexs. During the course of your employment at Westing- 
house, have you become a member of a labor organization ? 

Mr. Fried. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Arens. ^Vliat labor organization are you connected with ? 

Mr. Fried. The IUE, AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Were you also connected with UE at one time ? 

Mr. Fried. Yes. At one time UE was our certified bargaining 
agent. At that time I was a member of UE. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever held an office, committee chairmanship, 
or anything of that character in either organization ? 

Mr. Fried. You would hardly call it an office. I was a section 
steward and a line section steward, which is a little higher than sec- 
tion steward, in UE at one time, on third shift. Of course, there are 
very few workers on third shift. 

Mr. Arens. Were you required to sign a non-Communist affidavit? 

Mr. Fried. No ; non- Communist affidavits were not required at the 
time. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you were holding this post of steward ? 

Mr. Fried. I decline to answer on the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr, Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. ]\Ir. Irving Cohen, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Kindly raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Cohen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF IRVING R. COHEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

DAVID KOCHERY 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Cohen. My name is Irving Cohen. I live at 97 Briggs Avenue. 
I am a milling-machine operator. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
issued by the House Committee on Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. Cohen. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, please identify yourself. 

Mr. KocHERY. David Kochery, Buffalo, N. Y. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFAIiO, N. T., AREA 1775 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present 
establislunent ? 

Mr. Cohen. Since about tlie end of May of this year. 

Mr. Arens. And what do you do at this establishment ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. Sir, before I answer that question, may I inquire 
whether the committee has received a telegram concerning my appear- 
ance before this committee ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Mr. Chairman, a telegram was sent to the com- 
mittee in which this witness requests that he not be taken in public 
session because he has already been taken in executive session. 

As the chairman knows, the executive session was taken as a matter 
of protection to the witness. I, therefore, respectfully request that 
this request be overruled. I am sorry I had not brought it to the 
attention of the committee sooner. It just came in today. 

Mr. Willis. The request is overruled. The executive session was 
for your own protection. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. I should like to have that telegram entered into the 
record and I should like to have it stand as a basis for an objection 
to the jurisdiction of this committee. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you kindly tell us what you do at the 
American Optical Co. ? 

Mr. Cohen. I mentioned before that I am a milling-machine 
operator. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed there ? 

Mr. Cohen. Since May of this year. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do prior to May ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to answer on the same grounds relied upon 
in answers in executive session. 

Mr. Arens. Then repeat those answers right now, please. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. I should like to ask whether it is not sufficient that 
the reasons already appear on the record. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be directed now either to answer the question or to invoke his con- 
stitutional rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Willis. It is so ordered. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. As the record already shows in executive session, I 
respectfully decline to answer on the ground of the Watkins decision, 
the first amendment and the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliere were you born ? 

Mr. Cohen. I was born in Eussia. 

INIr. Arens. When ? 

Mr. Cohen. February 9, 1917. 

Mr. Arens. "^Vlien did you come to the United States for perma- 
nent residence ? 

Mr. Cohen. In 1921, at the age of approximately 4i/^, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a citizen of the United States ? 



1776 CORIMTJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 

Mr. Cohen. I am a citizen of the United States on my father's 
naturalization papers. 

Mr. Arens. By derivation ? 

Mr. Cohen. By derivation, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education — just a brief sketch 
of your education. 

Mr. Cohen. I entered college in 1934. I went to college on and off 
until 1940 without having received a degree. While serving in the 
Armed Forces — I believe in 1943 — I was granted a degree based on 
my service in the Armed Forces. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist while you were in the Armed 
Forces ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
same basis previously given. 

Mr. Arens. Are you the author of a poem called Twelve Men? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. I say to you frankly we do not know whether you did 
or not. We have a poem here from the Daily People's World by Irving 
Cohen. That is not an uncommon name. I am not asking the ques- 
tion except for purposes of identification. 

Mr. Cohen. Sir, I may have written a poem as far back as when I 
was in high school but I have no other recollection. Can the poem be 
read? 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Cohen. Could the poem be read ? 

Mr. Arens. I wondered if you offered poems, verses, articles, or 
anything in the Communist Daily People's World, on the west coast. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. To the best of my knowledge and recollection, sir, the 
answer is "No." 

Mr. Arens. "\^nien did you complete your college education ? 

Mr. Cohen. As I stated, I received my degree — I am unclear as to 
the exact year. I believe it was 1943. 

Mr. Arens. Solely for the purpose of identification, is your wife's 
name Martha or Marna ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to answer on the husband and wife privilege. 

Mr. Arens. Is your son's name Paul ? 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to answer on tlie first amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you made application 

Mr. ScHERER. Wait a minute. Was the question, "Is your son's 
name Paul," and he declined to answer ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I move you to direct the witness to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. I believe the question is pertinent on the basis of pro- 
viding identification unless he has other reasons. 

Mr. Arens. This man's name is Irving Cohen, which is not an un- 
common name. 

Mr. Cohen. Would you please restate the reason for the question ? 

Mr. Arens. We are a little uncertain — we know much of your back- 



coMMui«n:sT activitieis in the buffalo, n. y., area 1777 

ground, but we do not know certain things here which we are trying 
to develop. 

Is your son's name Paul ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. How could it incriminate you ? 

Mr. Cohen. My son's name is Paul. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make application for employment at the Mc- 
Kaig-Hatch, Inc., at Buffalo, in 1957 ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Cohen. Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the basis of the Watkins decision and the first and fifth amend- 
ments. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic reproduction of an 
application signed by Irving Cohen, who lists his son's name as Paul, 
for employment at the McKaig-Hatch, Inc., 125 Skillen Street, Buffalo, 
which Irving Cohen asserts that his education is just a high-school 
education. 

Kindly look at that document and see if you can't accommodate 
the Committee on Un-American Activities by verifying its authen- 
ticity. 

^A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his comisel.) 

Mr. Cohen. I decline to verify its authenticity on the same grounds, 
sir. 

(Document marked "Irving Cohen Exhibit No. 1," and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

This is the last of the witnesses under subpena to appear today. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused and the committee will stand 
in recess until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 03 p. m., Thursday, October 3, the hearing in 
the above-entitled matter was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m., Friday, 
October 4, 1957.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA— Part 2 



FRIDAY, OCTOBER 4, 1957 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Buffalo, N. Y. 
public hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m., in room 600, United States Courthouse, 
Buffalo, N. Y., Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman of the subcommittee) , 
presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of 
Louisiana, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Staff members present: Richard Arens, director; George C. Wil- 
liams and W. Jackson Jones, investigators. 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

Our guests will be seated. 

Counsel, will you please call your first witness ? 

Mr. Arens. Arthur Bolton, kindly come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bolton. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR BOLTON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

DAVID KOCHERY 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Bolton. Arthur Bolton. I live in Buffalo, and I am a social 
worker. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, Mr. Bolton ? 

Mr. Bolton. At the Jewish Center of Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient for you to keep your voice up, 
please, sir ? 

You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served 
upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activities? 

Mr. Bolton. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Bolton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Kochert. David Kochery, Buffalo, N. Y. 

1779 

97795— 57— pt. 2 6 



1780 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of your employment, Mr. Bolton ? 

Mr. Bolton. I am a social worker. 

Mr. Arens. What do you do as a social worker at the establishment 
at which you are employed ? 

Mr. Bolton. Well, my responsibility involves the direction of a 
group-work program, the goals of that program being the develop- 
ment of healthy leisure-time activities of the membership. Of course, 
we are also interested in the growth and development of the individ- 
uals who are involved in the program with regard to their adjustment 
to other members of the Jewish Center that they participate with. 

Mr. Arens. How many people do you work with in your normal 
duties ? 

Mr. Bolton. Do you mean how many members are there ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. How many people do you come in contact with 
in your work, in your social work that you are telling us about ? 

Mr. Bolton. Several hundred. 

Mr. Arens. What is the age group that you work with ? 

Mr. Bolton. Well, I work with ages 12 through to 17. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Are you ready? 

Mr. Bolton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bolton. Since that question is in the area of my personal be- 
liefs and associations, I do not feel I can answer, and I stand on the 
Watkins decision, the first amendment, and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Which part of the fifth amendment do you invoke ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I invoke the entire fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Regan and Mr. Chatley both took an oath in the 
course of the last day or so before this committee and swore they 
knew you as a Communist. We want to give you an opportunity 
to deny that allegation while you are under oath. 

Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. "Wliat is your local home address, please ? 

Mr. Bolton. 29 Irving Place. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Bolton. I was born in April 1928, in Hunts Point Hospital, 
the Bronx, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education, please. 

Mr. Bolton. I have a bachelor's degree from New York University 
in 1949, a major in radio broadcasting, minors in English and soci- 
ology, and a master's degree in social service from the University of 
Buffalo in 1952. 

Mr. Arens. When did you receive each of these various degrees? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I have indicated that already. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly accommodate me by repeating just 
the dates there? I didn't follow you closely. I am sorry. 

Mr. Bolton. My bachelor's degree is 1949, New York University. 
My master's degree from the University of Buffalo is June — well, this 
June was 3 years since I graduated, so that would make it 1953. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE BUFFAI/), N. Y., AREA 1781 

Mr. Ajrens. What was your first principal employment after the 
conclusion of your formal education t 

Mr. Bolton. I worked as a Fuller Brush man in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. And for how long ? 

Mr. BoLTON. I don't know. It was a period of maybe 4 or 5 months. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat was your next principal employment? 

Mr. Bolton. I worked at the Fedders-Quigan Corp. on Niagara 
Street, making air-conditioning units. 

Mr. Arens. And your next principal employment? 

Mr. Bolton. My next principal employment was at the Child Care 
Center, which is an institution, a residential treatment center for 
emotionally disturbed children, ages 6 to 13. 

Mr. Arens. When did you work there? 

Mr. Bolton. I worked there from the time that I completed my 
master's degree until last year. I worked there for a period of 2 years. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make an application for employment at the 
Ford Motor Co. at any time along this period ? 

Mr. Bolton. I was employed at the Ford Motor Co. for a period of 
1 week. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make an application to gain that employment ? 

Mr. Bolton. Well, yes. 

Mr. Arens Did you fill out an application form ? 

Mr. Bolton. I must have. 

Mr. Arens. May I display to you a photostatic copy of what we 
understand is your application form and ask you if you will be kind 
enough to verify the authenticity of your signature. 

^Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. This is mine. It appears to be mine. 

Mr. Arens. You will observe, Mr. Bolton, under the heading of 
education, the designation is that you have had a high-school educa- 
tion, and in the part of the form left for college education — 1, 2, 3, or 
4 years — there is no indication. 

Did you forget about your college education when you made out 
that form, or was that an oversight, or was that intentional ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I would like to explain that. 

Mr. Arens. We will be very happy to have you do so. 

Mr. Bolton. The job that I was applying for was — ^AVliat is that? 

Mr. KocHERT. Mr. Chairman, the witness objects to the taking of 
motion pictures during his testimony. 

Mr. Willis. That will be respected. 

Mr. Bolton. The job that I was applying for was a rather good- 
paying job — at least it was better than I was doing as a Fuller Brush 
man — on the assembly line of the Ford Motor Co. I did not put my 
college education on that application for two reasons : One, I didn't 
feel that it had any pertinence to the work that I would be doing and, 
secondly, knowing something about personnel — the field of personnel — 
I was aware of the fact that as a general rule, personnel people do 
not tend to hire college graduates for jobs of that nature, because, as 
a general rule, college graduates do not remain for any length of time 
on those jobs. 



1782 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

(Document marked "Arthur Bolton Exhibit No. 1," and retained 
in committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist when you filled out this form 
in March of 1950? 

Mr. Bolton. That, sir, again is a question in the area of personal 
beliefs and associations, and I will not answer it, and I stand upon 
the Watkins decision, the first amendment, and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Now could you help us on this housing project matter 
here ? Were you part of a group that was involved in a protest con- 
cerning the housing project here in the greater Buffalo area? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. Would you kindly repeat the question, sir ? 

Mr. Arens. AVere you part of a group involved in a protest per- 
taining to the housing operation, the housing projects, oi this area? 

Mr. KocHERY. May we have a moment, Mr. Arens ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BoLTON. This question is again in the area of beliefs and asso- 
ciations, and I refuse to answer, basing myself on the Watkins de- 
cision, the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. You remember back in 1953, do you not, when they had 
a housing project here, and when it was required as part of the appli- 
cation of residents or proposed residents of the housing project, that 
they sign a loyalty oath ? 

Do you remember that incident or that set of circumstances ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I recall hearing about that. 

Mr. Arens. What was your telephone number in 1953? Do you 
recall ? 

Mr. Bolton. I do not recall my telephone number. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be IMA 7039 ? 

Mr. Bolton. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. "\Yliere did you live in 1953 ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. At that time I lived in the Lakeview housing project. 
I was in attendance at the School of Social Work at that time. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the address ? 

Mr. Bolton. The exact number I can't recall. It was a Verdi Walk 
address. 

Mr. Arens. Was it 16 Verdi Walk ? 

Mr. Bolton. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, as a prerequisite to your admission to the hous- 
ing project, sign a loyalty oath? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. Wlien I applied for entrance in the housing project, 
there was no requirement that I sign a loyalty oath at the time of my 
application for public housing. 

Mr. Arens. Was a requirement subsequently inaugurated, or insti- 
tuted, a requirement for a loyalty oath ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. Some time after I had moved into the housing project, 
a rider on some kind of housing appropriation bill in Congress, called 
the Quinn amendment, was established, requiring people to sign loyalty 



COMMUNTST ACTIVITIEiS IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREIA. 1783 

oaths. Subsequently, that amendment was ruled unconstitutional by 
the Supreme Court. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, after that oath was inaugurated as a pre- 
requisite to obtaining residence in this housing project, join with 
others in a concerted drive to cause the housing loyalty oath to be 
suspended ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. BoLTOx. This, again, is a question in the area of beliefs and 
associations, and I will not answer based upon the Watkins decision, 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to display to you now a photostatic repro- 
duction of a bulletin issued by a group of people protesting the hous- 
ing loyalty oath, in which it concludes that any individual who reads 
this if he wants more information, if he wants to join in the fight, is 
supposed to call MA-7039, GK-0388, or MO-0920. 

Curiously enough, we checked in the telephone directory and found 
that that one number was your number, which is listed for Arthur 
Bolton, at that time 16 Verdi Walk. 

Kindly look at this document and see if that might refresh your 
memory with reference to your participation in that enterprise to 
cause the suspension of the loyalty oath. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I decline to recognize or authenticate this document. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm 
or deny the fact, that you were one of the leading lights in this 
area, and a Communist at the time, for the purpose of causing the 
loyalty oath to be nullified. 

If that isn't true, please deny it while you are under oath. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. Would you repeat that question ? 

Mr. Arens. Read the question, Mr. Reporter. 

(Question read.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. That appears to be a multiple-barreled question, and 
I decline to answer it again on the grounds of the Watkins decision, 
the first and fifth amendments. 

(Document marked "Arthur Bolton Exhibit No. 2" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Sir, have you been an adviser or consultant for leader 
or training courses at Camp Lakeland — leadership courses? 

Mr. Bolton. For whom ? 

Mr. Arens. For leaders of — well, I will read this article and see 
if you can help us on this. It is an article in the press of 1957 : 

Jewish high school youths from 15 New York State cities will meet next Friday 
at Camp Lakeland for a 3-day leadership training institute. 

In the course of the article, the following appears : 

Adult advisers for the institute will be Arthur Bolton, director of youth 
activities at the Jewish Center of Buffalo, and Morris Siegel — 

and others. 

Kindly look at that article and see if that refreshes your recol- 
lection with reference to your participation in that camp program. 

(Document handed to witness, who conferred with his counsel.) 



1784 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Bolton. Certainly that is me and the answer is "Yes." It 
was part of my job. 

(Document marked "Arthur Bolton Exliibit No. 3" and retained 
in committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist at the time you were partici- 
pating in tliis youth-training program, in which youths were brought 
in from 15 NeAV York State cities this year for leadership training? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. I have not admitted that I am a Communist, and I 
decline to answer that question on the grounds of the Watkins decision, 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Will you deny, while you are under oath, that you are 
now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. BoLTON. That question is in the area of beliefs and associations, 
and I will not answer, basing myself on the Watkins decision, the 
jBrst amendment, and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. How many youth did you help train in leadership that 
came from these 15 New York State cities this year to Camp Lakeland 
for this 3-day leadership training course ? 

Mr. Bolton. There were some 25 youth and some 5 adult staff mem- 
bers of various Jewish centers throughout the State, discussing the 
role of Jewish youth in America today, and this was part of my job, 
to organize this conference. 

Mr. Arens. This establishment at which you are presently employed 
is under the auspices of the Hebrew Church, is it? 

Mr. BoLTON. No, sir; it is not. It is not a religious institution. It 
is a community institution. 

Mr. Arens. Well, is it at least ostensibly operable to people of faith, 
faith in God? 

Mr. Bolton. The Jewish center is open to anyone regardless of 
their race, color, creed, personal beliefs. It is a community agency. 
It is not a religious institution. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Mr. Joseph M. Gawronski ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bolton. That name is familiar. He was a fellow student with 
me at the School of Social Work. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been engaged in concert with him in any 
activity in the course of the last year or so ? 

Mr. Bolton. Mr. Gawronski has been in veterans' hospital suffering 
with tuberculosis for a period of some years now. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that concludes 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr, Arens. The next witness, INIr. Chairman, will be Hattie Lump- 
kin — Miss or Mrs. Hattie Lumpkin. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. I do, 

TESTIMONY OF HATTIE LUMPKIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

JULES H. GORDON 

Mr, Arens. Kindly identif}^ yourself by name, residence,, and occu- 
pation. 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIEiS EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1785 

Mr. Gordon. My client has requested that no photographs be taken 
while she is testifying. 

Mr. Willis. That will be respected, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mrs. Lumpkin. My name is Hattie Lumpkin. I live in Buffalo, 
N. Y., and I am a housewife. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Yes, sir ; that is right. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Gordon. Jules Gordon, Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in this community, Mrs. 
Lumpkin ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Fifteen years. I hope you can hear me. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere did you live prior to the time you came here ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. In Orlando, Fla. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you live in Orlando, Fla. ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Well, I don't know exactly, but I lived there from 
1924 to 1941. 

Mr. Arens. Have you worked in the Buffalo area ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. No; I wouldn't say I worked. I didn't have a job. 
I had social security — I didn't ever have a job in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations have you belonged to since you 
came to Buffalo ? 

]\Irs. Lumpkin. Well, in the United States under the United States 
Constitution and its Bill of Rights, I think I will use the first and 
fifth amendments, and respectfully decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Well, on the grounds of being discriminated 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Under all of the provisions of the fifth amendment, 
I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been on the joint NAACP council committee ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Under the first and fifth amendments I again de- 
cline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Williams is going to display to you here a clipping 
with respect to a certain celebration which was held in this com- 
munity a couple of years ago. According to this clipping, Mrs. Hattie 
Lumpkin is a member of a joint NAACP council committee in this 
community, along with others, working on the celebration or program. 

Kindly look at that article and tell us if that might refresh your 
recollection with reference to your membership or participation in 
this organization. 

(Document handed to witness, who conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Could you help us on that, please ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Well, I think I remember this. 

(Document marked "Lumpkin Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 



1786 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Were you a Communist at the time you served on that 
j oint NAACP council committee ? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Under the first and fifth amendment, I decline to 
answer. 

Mr. Arens. What is your street address, please? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. 263 Watson Street. 

Mr. Arens. Give that again, please. I didn't hear you. 

IVIrs. Lumpkin. 263 Watson Street. 

Mr. Arens. 263? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been chairman of the Ellicott District of the 
Communist Party? 

]\Irs. Lumpkin. I decline under the first and fifth amendments to 
answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Three men have taken an oath before this committee 
in the course of the last 2 or 3 days, Mr. Chatley, Mr. Regan, and Mr. 
Kinsey, and they have all said while they were under oath that they 
knew you as a Communist. 

Were they mistaken about that, or were they telling the truth? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Under the United States Constitution and its Bill 
of Rights, I decline to answer that under the fifth and the first amend- 
ments. 

Mr. Arens. We would like to display to you another document. It 
is the Communist Daily Worker of New York, Tuesday, August 2, 
1949. It tells about Mrs. Hattie Lumpkin, chairman of the Com^ 
munist Party in the Ellicott District. Look at this article, if you 
please, as Mr. Williams displays it to you, and tell us whether or not 
that refreshes your recollection with reference to your status as of 
that date as chairman of the Ellicott District of the Communist 
Party. 

(Document handed to witness, who conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Under the first and fifth amendments, I decline 
to answer. 

(Document marked "Lumpkin Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a Communist, a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. LuMPKiNS. The same thing. Under the first and fifth amend- 
ments I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of the testimony we have had in the last 
few days, Mrs. Lumpkin, witnesses have told us about the Commu- 
nists in this area being under orders to go into non-Communist organ- 
izations and groups. Can you tell us to what groups you belong 
which are not Communist groups? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Lumpkin. Well, we do have on my street, 263 Watson Street, 
extending from 

Mr. Willis. I can't hear you. 

Mrs. Lumpkin. I do have on my street, Watson Street, extending 
from Peckham Street, a little group of women who meet together to 
raise funds to buy flowers to anyone that dies in that block. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other group that you belong to? 

Mrs. Lumpkin. None other than the church. 



COMMIIN"IST ACTIVITIEiS IN THE BUFFAIX), N. Y., AREA 1787 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that concludes 
the stajff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Aeens. The next witness, if you please, will be Mrs. Beverly 
Levine. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Levine. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF BEVERLY LEVINE (MRS. ISRAEL LEVINE), ACCOM- 
PANIED BY COUNSEL, HAROLB P. FAHRINGER, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mrs. Levine. I am Mrs. Beverly Levine. I reside at 622 East Ferry 
Street, Builalo, and I am a housewife. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs. Levine, in response 
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Mrs. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Fahringer. Harold P. Fahringer, Jr., 195 Linwood Avenue. 

The witness, with your permission, Mr. Chairman, requests that 
no pictures be taken during the interrogation. 

Mr. Willis. That will be respected. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in this community, Mrs. 
Levine ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. Sir, I have sat through the past 3 days of hearings 
in this room, and to my observation I have noticed that questions 
pertaining to residence, employment, and education have been con- 
nected together to then lead into questions of beliefs and associations. 
For this reason, on the first amendment and the fifth amendment, I 
decline to answer questions of this nature. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness 
now be ordered and directed on this record to answer the question as 
to how long she has lived in this community. 

Mr. Willis. You are ordered to answer that question. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. I decline to answer on the first and fifth amendments 
of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you born ? 

Mrs. Levine. I was born in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you live in New York City ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. I lived in New York City for most of my adult life. 

Mr. Arens. When did you leave New York City to take up residence 
elsewhere ? 

Mrs. Levine. Three years ago. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you move from New York City ? 

Mrs. Levine. We moved to Buffalo. 



1788 cx)MMU]srisT activities in the buffalo, n. y., area 

Mr. Arens. Have you lived in Buffalo continuously ever since? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you educated ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. Sir, I have already declined to go into educational 
background. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
now be ordered and directed to answer the question as to where she 
was educated. 

Mrs. Levine. I decline to answer based on the first and fifth amend- 
ments of the Constitution. 

Mr. Willis. I direct you to answer the question. 

Mrs. Levine. I have just answered, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Since you moved to Buffalo, have you been active in 
the YAVCA programs here ? 

Mrs. Levine. I decline to answer that question since it goes in to my 
associations and under the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. We would like to display to you a photostatic copy of a 
newspaper clipping about a Yule bazaar held here in this community 
for the 1957 program of the YWCA. Among others who are chairmen 
of groups or in official officer status, I see Mrs. Arthur Bolton and Mrs. 
Israel Levine, treasurer. 

Kindly look at that document and tell us whether or not that re- 
freshes your recollection with reference to your participation in this 
function under the auspices of this great organization, the YWCA. 

(Document handed to the witness, who conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. Since I have already declined to answer on the basis 
of my own principle and conviction about associations, I decline to 
recognize or identify this document. 

Mr. Arens. Upon what basis, ma'am ? 

Mrs. Levine. On the basis of the first and fifth amendments in the 
Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. ScHERER. Pardon just a minute. You can hardly invoke the 
fifth amendment in refusing to answer a question about a Y^VCA 
activity. Isn't that stretching it a little far ? 

Mr. Arens. Unless, Mr. Scherer, the activity in the YWCA was an 
activity directed by the Communist conspiracy. 

Let us get this record clear at this point. Do you honestly apprehend 
if you told this committee while you were under oath whether or not 
you participated in a leadership capacity in the Y^VCA in this com- 
munity you would be giving information which might be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding ? 

We insist upon an answer to that question on this record. 

(The witness conferred with her counsal.) 

Mrs. Levine. Sir, I think the record of the Y stands in the com- 
munity for itself, and it is just my personal principle and convictions 
on these things which have led me to decline to answer these questions. 
After having seen the committee operate, it is reasonable that I might 
be subject to an unjustified prosecution if I were to answer. So I 
decline to answer on the whole of the fif tli amendment. 

(Document marked "Beverly Levine Exhibit No. 1," and retained in 
committee files.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1789 

Mr. Arens. If you were prosecuted under those provisions of the 
Smith Act which make it a crime to be or remain a member of an 
organization dedicated to the overthrow of the Government of the 
United States by force and violence, would that be an unjust prosecu- 
tion ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Levine. Sir, I feel I may be subject to a prosecution, but I 
cannot tell at this time whether it would be justified or unjustified. 

Mr. Arens. Are you this minute a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Levine. I decline to answer, sir, on the previous principal 
grounds that I have given, of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the stafi^ interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness will be Mrs. Ruth Bolton. 

Mr. Willis. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to 

give before this committee will be truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
ut the truth, so help you God ? 
Mrs. Bolton. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF RUTH (I.) BOLTON (MRS. ARTHUR BOLTON), 
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, DAVID KOCHERY 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mrs. Bolton. My name is Ruth Bolton. I live at 29 Irving Place, 
and I am a housewife. 

Mrs. Arens. Mrs. Bolton, do you know the person who just preceded 
you to the witness stand, Mrs. Israel Levine ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Arens. What has been the nature of your acquaintanceship 
with her? 

Mrs. Bolton. I have known her in the YWCA. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mrs. Bolton. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Bolton. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. KocHERY. David Kochery, Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Bolton, are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. On the basis of my personal beliefs and associations 
I would decline to answer that, on the Watkins decision, the first and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us about this connection that you and Mrs. Levine 
have in the YWCA. You said a moment ago that you were connected 
with her in the YWCA. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. Would you please make the question more specific? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Wliat is the nature of your work with Mrs. 
Levine in the YWCA? 



1790 CX)MMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Yon told lis a few moments ago that you knew her, as I recollect 
the record, in YWCA circles, or something to that effect. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. I said that I met Mrs. Levine at the YWCA. I do 
not work with her. I work at the YWCA as a volunteer. 

Mr. Arens. Did you work with Mrs. Levine in the Yule bazaar 
in 1956? 

Mrs. Bolton. It is very possible. I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Were you the publicity chairman for the Yule bazaar 
for the YWCA? 

Mrs. Bolton. That also I don't remember. It is possible. 

Mr. Arens. We would like to display to you the copy of the Buffalo 
Courier-Express of Tuesday, November 27, 1956, in which the article 
describes you as publicity chairman and Mrs. Israel Levine as treas- 
urer of this function of the YWCA. 

See if that refreshes your recollection, if you please. 

(The document was handed to the witness, who conferred with her 
counsel. ) 

Mrs. Bolton. I do recognize that as an article from the Courier, 
and my name is mentioned there. 

(Document marked "Ruth Bolton Exhibit No. 1" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Is it an accurate description or characterization? 

Mrs. Bolton. That I was publicity chairman ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mrs. Bolton. I imagine it is ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Were you also program chairman in March of this 
year? 

Mrs. Bolton. March of 1957? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to display to you a clipping from the local 
press about a function of the YWCA. Apparently it was a debate. 

Mrs. Bolton. When did the debate take place? 

Mr. Arens. It was in March of 1957. I am going to show you this 
in just a moment. The concluding paragraph reads as follows : 

"The judging was done by" certain people, all associated with the 
YWCA. "Mrs. Arthur Bolton was program chairman." 

Kindly look at that and see if that refreshes your recollection. 

(Document handed to the witness, who conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. Was Mrs. Israel Levine on this same program with 
herintheYAVCA? 

Mr. Arens. She was on the preceding program that we alluded to. 
It was in 1956. I don't see Mrs. Levine's name on this particular 
program. She may have been. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Could you help us on this, please? 

Mrs. Bolton. Would you ask the question again, please? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Does this article which you now hold in your 
hand refresh your recollection as to your program chairmanship in 
that particular function of the YWCA? 

Mrs. Bolton. On that particular evening, I recall that I was pro- 
gram chairman for the one evening. 



COIVOIIINIST ACTIVmES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1791 

(Document marked "Ruth Bolton Exhibit No. 2" and retained in 
committee files.) 

Mr. Arens. We have had testimony on this record in the course of 
the last few days that a new strategy or tactic of the Communist 
Party in this community, at least, is to send comrades into non- 
Communist civic organizations — what we call legitimate organiza- 
tions — for the purpose of performing the party's will. Was your ad- 
mission into the circles of the YIVCA instigated, suggested, or directed 
to you by any person known by you to be a Communist ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. My volunteer service with the YWCA was not sug- 
gested to me by anyone. 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me ask a question. 

You are the wife of Arthur Bolton, who just testified here this 
morning, and who was director of the Jewish Community Center ? 

Mrs. Bolton. I am his wife, but he is not director of the Jewish 
Center. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wliat position does he occupy ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. I am speaking of his position with the Jewish Com- 
munity Center. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. My husband already testified to that. I believe he is 
the director of teen-age and youth activities. 

Mr. ScHERER. I said director of the Jewish Center. He is director 
of teen-age activities. He is a director, though, at the Jewish Youth 
Center. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. He is one of many directors of activities, yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did he suggest to you that you should go into the 
TWCAwork? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. I would refuse to answer that on the grounds of a 
husband- and- wife privilege. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that ques- 
tion. It is not a confidential communication. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. I will withdraw it. 

Mrs. Bolton. Does this direction 

Mr. Willis. That is all. 

Mr. Arens. We have one further question, Mr. Chairman, just so the 
record is clear. 

Are you now, this minute, a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. That question goes into my personal beliefs and asso- 
ciations, and I decline to answer that on the grounds of the Watkins 
decision, the first amendment, and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Regan took an oath before this committee a day or 
so ago, and while he was under oath — if he lied to this committee he 
will De prosecuted for perjury — he said that while he was in the Com- 
munist Party, in the top echelons of the Communist Party in this 
community, he knew you for a certainty to be a Communist. 

Did he perjure himself or did he tell the truth, when he identified 
you as a Communist ? 



1792 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. I did not hear Mr. Regan's testimony, and I also 
decline to answer that on the grounds of the Watkins decision, the 
first amendment, and the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. You are not suggesting to this committee today that 
had you heard his testimony you might have taken issue with him; 
are you ? 

( The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Bolton. I am merely saying that I did not hear his testimony. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness, 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Scherer has some questions. 

Mr. Scherer. In what other volunteer activities were you engaged, 
Mrs. Bolton, other than with the YIVCA ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. Do you mean social and charitable activity ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Mrs. Bolton. Pardon? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. The only other one I can recall is the Parent-Teacher 
Association. 

Mr. Scherer. To what other organzations do you belong ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Bolton. I do not recall any other organization. 

Mr. Scherer. Are you an officer in the PTA ? 

Mrs. Bolton. No. 

Mr. Scherer. Have you been ? 

Mrs. Bolton. No. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mrs. Frances Clune. Please come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are to give before this committee will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mrs. Clune. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FRANCES (L.) CLUNE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

JULES H. GORDON 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 
Mrs. Clune. I am Frances Clune, 

Mr. Arens. Could you raise your voice so we can hear you ? 
Mrs. Clune. I am Mrs. Frances Clune. I live in Buffalo. 
Mr. Arens. And your address, please? 
Mrs, Clune. Stratford Road. 
Mr. Arens. What is the street address, please ? 
Mrs. Clune. 156. 
Mr. Arens. Stratford Road ? 
Mrs. Clune. Stratford Road. 
Mr. Arens. And your occupation, please? 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIBS IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1793 

Mrs. Clune. I work in a department store. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere ? 

Mrs. Clune. On Main Street. 

Mr. Arens. "WTiat is the name of the department store, if you please ? 

Mrs. Clune. J. N. Adam & Co. 

Mr. Arens. Here in Buffalo ? 

Mrs. Clune. Here in Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs. Clune, in response to 
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Mrs. Clune. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Clune. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Gordon. Jules Gordon, Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in this community, Mrs. 
Clune? 

Mrs. Clune. Since 1940. 

Mr. Arens. And from whence did you come to this community? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Clune. From New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And how long did you live in New York City ? 

Mrs. Clune. I am not just exactly sure. Three to four years, I 
believe. 

Mr. Arens. And where did you live prior to the time that you lived 
in New York City? 

Mrs. Clune. In my hometown. 

Mr. Arens. And where is that ? 

Mrs. Clune. Hampton, N. H. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word, please, of your education, 

Mrs. Clune. I am a grammar-school and high-school graduate. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word of the principal employments which 
you have had since you reached adulthood ? 

Mrs. Clune. If I can remember them. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mrs. Clune. If I can remember all of them, 

Mr. Arens. May I just suggest 1 or 2 to you and see if you have a 
recollection ? 

Mrs. Clune. Woolworth's. 

Mr. Arens. Were you employed at Dartmouth College library ? 

Mrs. Clune. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. When was that? 

Mrs. Clune. Well, this was previous to my going to New York 
City. 

Mr. Arens. What was the year ? Do you recall ? Was it the middle 
1930's? 

Mrs. Clune. I would say "Yes," I don't remember exact dates 
now. 

Mr. Arens, How long were you employed at the Dartmouth College 
library ? 

Mrs, Clune. Six and a half, I believe, to seven years, 

Mr. Arens. And in what capacity ? 

Mrs. Clune, I don't know just what you would call it. 



1794 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. WhaJt did you do in the libraiy ? 

Mrs. Clune. I marked the numbers on the books, the stenciling of 
the numbers on the books. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any difficulty at the Dartmouth College 
with the administration officials, the officials of the administration of 
the university or the college ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Clune. As far as I can recall in all the period I was with the 
libraiy I had no difficulty, and I did receive — I don't believe I have 
it any longer in my possession — a letter of recommendation. 

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in the organization of any groups 
at the university or at Dartmouth College ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. I should put the question this way : Did you participate 
in any attempts of organization of any groups at Dartmouth ? 

Mrs. Clune. I decline to answer this question under the first and 
fifth amendments of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly feel that if you told this committee 
whether or not you participated in organizing any groups at Dart- 
mouth, you might be supplying information that might be used against 
you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mrs. Clune. I decline to answer, sir, for the reasons stated. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that while you were at Dartmouth College, you were partici- 
pating in an attempted organization, whether successful or not we 
do not know, of a Communist Party unit at Dartmouth College. 

If that isn't so, please deny it while you are under oath. 

Mrs. Clune. I refuse to answer this question, sir, on the basis of the 
first and fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Now can you tell us, since you moved to the Buffalo 
area, any groups or organizations to which you have belonged ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Clune. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you belonged to any groups in the Buffalo area of 
what we will now call the non-Communist, legitimate organizations ? 

Mrs. Clune. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr, ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Willis. Yes. I direct you to answer that question. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Clune. Would you repeat the question again, please, sir? 

Mr. Arens. Please tell us the names of any non-Communist, legi- 
timate organizations with which you have been allied or of which you 
have been a member since you have moved to the Buffalo area. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Clune. Sir, to the best of my recollection I have not belonged 
to any such groups. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you. 

Now tell us any other groups that you belong to. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AEEIA 1795 

Mrs. Clune, I decline to answer this question, sir, on the l)asis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of the last 3 days, 3 men have taken 
each an oath before this committee, and subjected themselves to pos- 
sible pains and penalties of perjury. Each of those men, while he 
was under oath, said that while he was a member of the Communist 
apparatus, the Communist Party in the greater Buffalo area, he 
knew you to be an active member of the Communist Party, in fact, 
a leader of the Communist operation here in Buffalo. Were they 
correct in their testimony ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Cltjne. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the basis 
of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Raise your voice, please. 

INIrs. Clune. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. There is sworn testimony on this record likewise that 
your home here in Buffalo — and I am now going to characterize the 
testimony rather than repeat it — that your home here has been a kind 
of assembly center for Communist Party literature, much of which 
has been sent in from New York City, and disseminated from your 
home. Is that testimony true or is that testimony false ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Clune. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Are vou now, this minute, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Clune. I decline to answer this question, sir, on the basis 
of the first and fifth amendments of the Constitution of the United 
States. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that concludes 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, Mr. Chairman, will be Mrs. Sylvia 
Tobin. Kindly come forward and be sworn, Mrs. Tobin. 

Mr. Willis. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mrs. ToBiN. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SYLVIA TOBIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

SAUL TOUSTER 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mrs. Tobin. Sylvia Tobin, 633 Niagara Falls Boulevard. I am pri- 
marily a housewife. I do part-time work as a social worker. 

Mr. Arens. Would you raise your voice, please ? 

Mrs. Tobin. I am sorry. I do part-time work as a social worker. 
I am primarily a housewife. 

Mr. Arens. Did you give us your address ? 

Mrs. Tobin. Yes; I did. 



07795— 57— pt. 2- 



1796 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Akens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by tlie House Committee on Un-Ameri- 
can Activities? 

Mrs. ToBiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mrs. ToBiK. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. TousTER. Saul Touster, Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Where do you do this part-time social work, please, 
IkErs. Tobin? 

Mrs, ToBiN. At the Jewish Community Service Center Society. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed there ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. About 8 months. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the same organization at which Mr. Bolton 
works ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. This is another organization ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. That is right; this is a family service organization. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you w^orked there ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I repeat that. About 8 months. 

Mr. Arens. What do you do there ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I counsel people who have difficulties in family adjust- 
ments. 

Mr. Arens. Are you paid for that work ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. Are you active also in any other organizations here? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Let us put it this way: Are you active in any other 
legitimate organizations, non-Communist organizations? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. Without characterizing the organizations, I am a mem- 
ber of the NAACP. I have a paper membership in the PTA. We 
hold a family membership in the Jewish center, and the other or- 
ganizations are related to our religious affiliations. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. Oh, yes. I have a paper membership in the Camp 
Lakeland Association. 

Mr. Arens. I didn't hear you. ' ! 

Mrs. ToBiN. A paper membership. I pay $2.50 a year to be a mem- 
ber of the Camp Lakeland Association. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the association where this young chap, Bolton, 
taught? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I don't know if he ever taught in that. 

Mr. Arens. In which he was an adviser ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. It is the camp for young children in this area. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the one where he was the adviser a few months 
ago? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I don't know if he was associated with it. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know him? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I met him in the hall for the first time. 

Mr. Arens. Do you also belong to the Young Women's Hebrew 
Association ? 



C0MMTIN19T ACnVITIEiS EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1797 

Mrs. ToBiN. No, sir ; we don't have one here. 

( The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mr. Arexs. What has been the nature of your connection with the 
NAACP? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I have been a member for some years. I have been a 
member of the board of the NAACP. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of the board of that 
organization ? 

Mrs. ToBiiSr. I think approximately about 5 years. 

( The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in this community ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. Since my marriage, 15 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you live prior to that time ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. New York City. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you live in New York City ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. All my life. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a word about your education. 

Mrs. ToBiN. I graduated from Hunter College and I did graduate 
work in social work at the New York School, in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Tobin, a day or so ago a man took an oath before 
this committee and told about his career in the Communist Party, 
and he said that while he was a member of the Communist Party, 
he knew you, to a certainty, to be a Communist, a member of the 
Communist Party. We want to give you now an opportunity to deny 
that allegation, if you care to avail yourself of that opportunity. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I am not now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time in the course of the last year ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time in the course of the last 5 years ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time in the course of the last 2 years ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time in the course of the last 18 months ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Tobin. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments, 

Mrs. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time in the course of the last 14 months ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time in the course of the last 13 months ? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments. 



1798 CX)MMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Aeens. Have you resigned from the Communist Party? 

Mrs. ToBiN. I have not testified that I have been a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Will you deny that you liave been a member of the 
Communist Party as testified to under oath by Mr. Regan? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I decline to to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Are you completely, irrevocably, finally, out of the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I haven't testified that I have been a member of the 
Communist Party. I have testified that I am not now a member of 
the Communist Party, and I am not subject to any Communist 
affiliation. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

Are you completely, irrevocal)ly, disassociated from the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I am not now a member of the Communist Party, and 
I am unalterably opposed to its principles. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you entertained this unalterable oppo- 
sition to the tenets or the principles of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

jNIr. Willis. I think that covers the area that she was questioned 
about previously. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. During the time that I previously testified I am not 
a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Scherer. I think the witness has made her position clear. 

Mr. Arens. Why are you now opposed to the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I am opposed, but I think this question enters into 
the areas of my beliefs, and I don't want to discuss them mider my 
rights under the first and fifth amendments. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I am sorry. I think that is only the first amendment 
that is in issue here. 

Mr. Arens. Do you present!}^ have information respecting the 
operation of the Communist conspiracy in this community as current 
as a year and a half ago ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. ToBiN. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. May I inquire if the attorney is here for INIrs. Betty 
Thorner ? 

The attorney asked us yesterday if we would scliedule lier annear- 
ance after 11 : 30, but my thought is if he and she are present here, as 
of now, we could proceed with her. Apparently they b.ave not ar- 
riA'ed yet. Then may we hear, please, Mr. Chairman, Milton Rogovin. 



COMMUNIST ACTTVITTES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1799 

Mr. "Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give before this committee will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. EoGO^^;N. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF MILTON ROGOVIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

SAUL TOUSTEK 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. RoGOviN. Milton Eogovin, 90 Chatham, and I am 

Mr. Arens. I have difficulty hearing you. 

Mr. Eogo\t:n. My name is Milton Rogovin, 90 Chatham. I am an 
optometrist. 

Mr. Arexs. You are appearing today, Mr. Rogovin, in response to 
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. Rogovin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Rogovin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. TousTER. Saul Touster, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Rogovin. New York City. 

Mr. TousTER. May we request no pictures ? 

Mr. Willis. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. Rogovin. New York City, December 30, 1909. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere were you educated? 

Mr. RoGO^^N. New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education. 

Mr. Rogovin. I attended a scliool of optometry in New York and 
graduated in 1931. 

Mr. Arens. How long liave you been in the Buffalo community? 

Mr. RoGO^^[N. Since 1938. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been engaged as an optometrist ever since? 

Mr. Rogovin. Outside of my being away in the Army, yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. When did you serve in the Army ? 

Mr. Rogovin. From 1942 to 1945, approximately. 

Mr. iVRENS. Did you receive an honorable discharge? 

Mr. Rogovin. I did, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you serve? 

Mr. Rogovin. Sixteen months overseas and the rest of the time in 
various training camps. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have a commission? 

Mr. RoGO^^N. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Since you have arrived in the Buffalo community, have 
you taken any trips abroad, other than the trip in the service of your 
country, in the service of the Army ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. By abroad. Witness, so there will be no misunderstand- 
ing, I mean have you been outside the United States. 

97795 — 57— pt. 2 8 



1800 cojMMUNiST AcnvrriES est the buffalo, n. y., area 

Mr. TousTER. Counsel, we are very close to Canada here, and it is 
frequent that residents 

Mr. Arens. We will exclude Canada. 

Have you been to Mexico ? We will be specific. Have you been to 
Mexico since you have arrived in the greater Buffalo area? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. EoGOviN. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. ^^Hiy? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. EoGoviN. I sincerely believe that I must invoke the first and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Do you remember the time of the attempted assassina- 
tion of former President Truman some few years ago in Washington? 
Do you remember that ? 

Mr. KoGOViN. I don't recall, sir. 

Mr. Arens. When Puerto Ricans, Puerto Rican nationalists, at- 
tempted to assassinate President Truman. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOviN. Yes. Now I recall it. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you at the time ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGO^TiN. I don't recall right away, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you out of the country at the time? 

Mr. RoGOviN. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in Mexico at or about that time ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Rogom:n. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in conference with representatives 
of the Puerto Rican Communist organization in Mexico ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOviN. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations have you belonged to since you 
came to the Buffalo area ? We will start with organizations, excluding 
any organization that is a Communist organization. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. To what legitimate organizations have you belonged? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGO%T[N. From the testimony that has been given, I sincerely 
feel that I must invoke the first and the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. What money do you handle in this community other 
than just your own personal money ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOviN. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that you are a principal conduit for the funds of the Com- 
munist operation in this community. If that isn't so, please deny it 
while you are under oath. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOviN. I will decline on the basis of the first and the fifth 
amendments. 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., ARE'A 1801 

Mr. Arens. Are you, this minute, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. KoGoviN. I will decline on the basis of the first and the fifth 
amendments. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of the last 2 or 3 days, Mr. Kogovin, a Mr. 
Regan, a Mr. Chatley, and a Mr. Kinsey, all took oaths and said 
that they knew you as a Communist. One of them said that you were 
at one time literature director of the Communist Party in this vicinity. 
Others told of other activities by yourself as a leading Communist 
of this community. It is a pretty serious charge to level against a 
man, that he is a member of an organization that has been repeatedly, 
by Government agencies, including the courts, found to be a part 
of an international apparatus of a foreign power on American soil, 
operating to destroy this country. We would like to give you, there- 
fore, an opportunity, as any red-blooded American ought to have, to 
deny, while he is under oath, that he is part of that apparatus. We 
would like to give you that opportunity now. 

Do you care to avail yourself of the opportunity to stand up here 
and deny while you are under oath that you are a member of the 
Communist apparatus in this community ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGoviisr. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and the 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. One moment, please. 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, do you know Helen Mintz ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGO\^N. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. She is a customer of yours; is she not? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOviN. On the basis of the previous testimony given, I will 
decline to answer under the first and the fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. She testified here yesterday under oath that she was a 
customer of yours for a long period of time. Was she telling the truth 
when she told us that she was a customer ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGO^^N. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you know her as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. RoGoviN. I will decline to answer this question on the basis of 
the first and the fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. Have you ever been in her apartment in the Touraine 
Hotel? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOviN-. I will decline to answer on the basis of the first and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, do you know Loyd Kinsey ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGoviisr. I will decline to answer this question on the first and 
the fifth amendments. 



1802 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFAIrO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. Were these witnesses Mr. Arens mentioned, who have 
identified you as a leader of the Communist Party in this area, telling 
the truth ^ 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. RoGOViN. I will decline to answer on the first and the fifth 
amendments. 

Mr, ScHERER. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Nancy Hull Salmin. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your ri<zht hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give before this committee will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mrs. Salmin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OP NANCY HULL SALMIN (MRS. ALEXANDER SALMIN), 
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, ROBERT B. FLEMING 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mrs. Salmin. My name is Nancy Salmin. I live in the city of 
Buffalo, and I am a housewife. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs, Salmin, in response to 
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Mrs. Salmin. That is right, 

Mr. Arens. Your address is 93 LaFayette Avenue; is that correct? 

Mrs. Salmin. No ; it is 22 Cottage. 

Mr. Arens, 22 Cottage? 

Mrs, Salmin, That is right. 

Mr, Arens. Buffalo? 

Mrs. Salmin. Right, 

Mr. Arens, You are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Salmin. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Fleming. Robert B. Fleming, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in the Buffalo community? 

Mrs. Salmin, Thirteen years, 

Mr. Arens. From whence did you come ? 

Mrs. Salmin. Pennsylvania. 

Mr, Arens, Where in Pennsylvania ? 

Mrs, Salmin, Du Bois, Pa. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you live there? 

Mrs. Salmin, About 5 years, I guess. 

Mr, Arens, Give us, if you please, just a word of your education. 

Mrs. Salmin. I am a high school graduate. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you live prior to the time you were in 
Pennsylvania ? 

Mrs. Salmin. I was born in Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Arens. Are you active, or have you in the recent past been 
active, in the YWCA in this community ? 

Mr. Fleming. Would you excuse me a moment? She turned to 
me 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1803 

]Mr. Arens. Surely, Counsel. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Salmin. All right. I was born in Pennsylvania and lived 
there until I was 3 years old, and lived for 4 years in the British 
West Indies before I returned to Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Arens. Could you keep your voice up a little bit, please? 

Have you been active in the YWCA in this community in the 
course of the last several years ? 

Mrs. Salmin. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity have you been active ? 

Mrs. Salmin. I have been a member of the YWCA. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been one of the committee chairmen or 
leaders of any of the groups here within the YW^CA? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Salmin. I was a member of the council of the Industrial 
Club and was elected vice president, but had to resign because I couldn't 
come on the night that the club met. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any other groups that you have joined or 
belong to in the greater Buffalo area ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Salmin. I was a member of the parent group of the Commu- 
nity Cooperative Nursery School when my daughter attended that 
school. 

Mr. Arens. For the purpose of identification, you are the wife of 
Alexander Salmin? 

Mrs. Salmin. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any other groups or organizations of any 
kind that you belong to here in the greater Buffalo area ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Salmin. I decline any further question on the grounds of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens, In this Industrial Club of the YWCA, you say you were 
elected vice president. Do you know Mrs. Arthur Bolton, who was 
elected president? 

Mrs. Salmin. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of the last 2 or 3 days, 2 men have taken 
an oath before this committee, Mr. Charles Eegan and Mr. Joseph 
Chatley. Do joii know those two men ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Salmin. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and 
fifth amendments. 

INIr. Arens. Both of those men, while they were under oath, testi- 
fied that while they were members of the Communist Party, they knew 
you as a Communist. We want to give you an opportunity now to 
deny that, while you are under oath. Do you care to avail yourself 
of that opportunity? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Salmin. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and 
fifth amendments. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, this minute, a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Salmin. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and 
fifth amendments. 



1804 C50MMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude the staff 
interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. Tlie witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness is Mrs. Betty Thorner. 

Mr. Willis. The committee will take a brief recess of a few minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

Mr. Arens. IVfrs. Gerald Thorner, please come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF BETTY THORNEE (MRS. GERALD THORNER), AC- 
COMPANIED BY COUNSEL, ROBERT B. FLEMING 

Mr. Arens. Kindly idenify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mrs. Thorner. Betty Thorner, 165 Norman Street, housewife. 

Mr. Arens. You are Mrs. Gerald Thorner ? 

Mrs. Thorner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. The wife of Gerald Thorner ? 

Mrs. Thorner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-Amer- 
ican Activities ? 

Mrs. Thorner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Thorner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Fleming. Robert Fleming, Buffalo. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in the Buffalo community? 

Mrs. Thorner. About 5 years. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you live prior to the time you moved to 
the Buffalo area ? 

Mrs. Thorner. In Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you live in Brooldyn ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I would say about a year. 

Mr. Arens. And where did you live prior to the time that you 
lived in Brooklyn? 

Mrs. Thorner. Forest Hills. 

Mr. Arens. New York? 

Mrs. Thorner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you live in the greater New York area? 

Mrs. Thorner. IMost of my life ; all my life. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please, of your education. 

Mrs. Thorner. I have a bachelor of arts from Queens College 
and I have attended graduate courses at Johns Hopkins University, 
and I have attended classes at Bank Street College for teachers, 
and I have a teacher's certificate. 

Mr. Arens. Have you taught? 

Mrs. Thorner. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where have you taught ? 



COMMUNIST ACnVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1805 

Mrs. Thorner. In a day-care center in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Have you engaged in any gainful occupation in the 
Buffalo area ? 

Mrs. Thorner. Just for 2 or 3 months I worked as a waitress to 
supplement our income. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to the YWCA ? 

Mrs. Thorner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been an officer or committee chairman or 
anything of that kind in the YVVCA here ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I have been chairman of a membership committee 
of a group ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. '\'Vliat group was that? 

Mrs. Thorner. It is a wife's group. It is a group of women who are 
married, and it is for social activities. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the industrial group ? 

Mrs. Thorner. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What name does the group have ? 

Mrs. Thorner. YW Wives, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are or were the membership chairman? 

Mrs. Thorner. I was. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you membership chairman? 

Mrs. Thorner. One year, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other group of comparable description 
that you belong to, or have belonged to, since you moved to the Buffalo 
area? 

Mrs. Thorner. Comparable description, sir ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes ; like the YWCA. Any civic group. 

Mrs. Thorner. I am a member of the PTA, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And how long have you been a member of the PTA? 

Mrs. Thorner. My son just started school; for about 1 month. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other group of like description that you 
belong to, or have belonged to, since you moved to Buffalo ? 

Mrs. Thorner. Not that I know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Thorner, are you a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Thorner. I must decline to answer that, sir, under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party in 
the course of the last year ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I must decline to answer, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time within the course of the last 6 months ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I must continue to decline to answer, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time since you received your subpena to appear before this 
committee ? 

Mrs. Thorner. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time in the course of the last 3 months ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I must decline to answer, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you resigned from the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I must decline to answer, sir. 



1806 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 

Mr. Arens. Are you completely, irrevocably, finally, disassociated 
from the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Thorner. I have no intention, sir, of joining the Communist 
Party at any time in the future. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently under Communist Party discipline ? 

Mrs. Thorner. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

This will conclude our hearings in the Buffalo area. 

In concluding these hearings, I would like to make a few obser- 
vations. 

First of all, may I say that we did not intend to undertake to reveal 
here the complete extent of the Communist operations in this com- 
munity of which we have knowledge. To do so would take weeks 
instead of a few days of hearings and would have required many 
months of preliminary staff work. This Avould of necessity mean that 
by concentrating our staff here we could not keep abreast of the pattern 
of Communist activity in other areas of the Nation. 

For instance, next Monday morning, we have further hearings in 
Washington. We, therefore, have made public in these hearings only 
a fair sampling of Communist activity in the greater Buffalo com- 
munity, but in this sampling process we have, I believe, accomplished 
several constructive results as revealed by the 50 or so witnesses whom 
we have interrogated out of the hundreds concerning whom we have 
information of Communist activity here. 

What then has been accomplished by these hearings ? 

There has been new and convincing evidence developed regarding 
the loopholes in the Foreign Agents Registration Act and other legis- 
lation designed to identify the flood of Communist propaganda which 
is daily reaching our shores. 

We have received evidence of violation or finding a way to evade 
the Communist affidavit requirements by officers of unions under the 
Taft-Hartley law. We have found evidence here, as elsewhere, of the 
use of social-security cards and false names, as well as the fraudulent 
use of passports. There has been confirmed a pattern of Communist 
technique for penetration of heavy industrial establishments of which 
this Buffalo area has many that are vital to our defense and economic 
well-being. 

There has been revealed the Communist underground strategy and 
tactics of the conspiracy in penetrating the normal, legitimate organi- 
zations of our American society. 

True, many of the witnesses have been completely uncooperative 
with the committee but, nevertheless, they have, in a negative way, 
helped complete the factual picture which we have been trying to 
develop here as elsewhere throughout the Nation. 

We will take back to Washington for consideration by the Congress 
this factual material to be used in our efforts to keep our security laws 
abreast of the ever-changing devices of the Communist operation in 
this country. 

Here let me say that most of the security legislation which has been 
enacted by the Congress over the last several years has been initiated 
by this committee, and we have pending numerous proposals for 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE BUFFALO, N. Y., AREA 1807 

amendments which we are presently in the process of refining for 
submission to the Congress. 

There is a collateral result of our hearings which I believe is salu- 
tary and important. That is, to remind all of us of the ever-present, 
serious threat of communism, not as a mere ideology but as a menac- 
ing, dynamic force of intrigue, subversion, and conspiracy which 
challenges all patriotic Americans to be constantly alert. 

Now before concluding I should like to express appreciation to 
the many who have cooperated with us and with our staff. I wish 
to thank in particular the Federal judge, Hon. Harold P. Burke, 
whose courtroom we have been using, the United States marshal and 
his deputies, the local police authorities, particularly Lt. Winthrop PI. 
Phelps, of the antisubversive squad. I should like also to commend 
the members of the local bar association for the dignified manner in 
which they have represented witnesses who have appeared here these 
past few days. 

Finally, I should like to express our thanks to the members of the 
press who have very fairly portrayed to the public at large the pro- 
ceedings during these hearings. 

Would you care to express some thoughts, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. I have just one or two observations; namely, if it is 
any consolation to the people of the Buffalo area, it is apparent from 
the testimony that by far the great majority of Communists in this 
area are not natives of the city of Buffalo. One of the things that 
impressed me from witness after witness who took that stand was the 
fact that practically all of them came out of the city of New York, 
particularly those who came here to colonize the industries of Buffalo. 
Those are the individuals who had college educations. Some of them 
had more than one degree. They came into industry here in Buffalo 
and represented to industry that they had only either a grammar or 
high school education, which enabled them, of course, to obtain menial 
positions in industry where they would be in contact with the mass 
of employees in this area. Of course that was done for the purpose 
of enabling them better to disseminate Communist propaganda and 
gain membership for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Chairman, you mentioned the fine service rendered by the mem- 
bers of the bar. I would like to enlarge upon that just for a minute, 
as I did midpoint in these hearings, and as I did just a few minutes 
ago on television. I think the committee and the staff were particu- 
larly impressed by the fine and capable manner in which the members 
of the Buffalo Bar represented the witnesses who were called before 
this committee. The bar association itself is to be congratulated be- 
cause it urged and cooperated in getting lawyers for some witnesses 
who contended or claimed that they were unable to obtain lawj^ers. 
The lawyers followed the rules of this committee scrupulously and, 
as I said before, also the canons of ethics of the American Bar Asso- 
ciation. As a result, the hearings moved on more speedily and 
effectively than in any city I have been in since I have been a member 
of this committee. 

Above all, there should be no adverse criticism of any kind attached 
to a member of the bar because of his representation of witnesses who 



1808 COMMUNIST ACTIVrriES IN THE BUFFALO, N. T., AREA 

are called before this committee. In fact, the committee feels much 
better when a witness is represented by capable comisel. 

That is all I have to say, JSIr. Cliairman. 

Mr. Willis. Thank you. 

This concludes our hearings in Buffalo. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 01 p. m., Friday, October 4, 1957, the subcom- 
mittee was recessed subject to call.) 



INDEX 



Individuals 

Page 

Amter, Israel 1740 

Andenbei-g, Andrew 1620 

Annaccoue, James 1612, 1685-1G91 (testimony), 1719, 1720, 1722, 1764 

Annaccone, Marguerite (Mrs. James Annaccone) 1612, 1720 

Asque, Chiarles T 1610, 1631-1638 (testimony), 1720 

Baiim (Gertrude) (Mrs. Richard Baum) 1720 

Baum, Richard 1612, 1720 

Bennett, Bill (Wilbur) 1620 

Berecz, Andy 1609 

Birnbauni, Martin 1610 

Bolton, Arthur 1612, 1720, 1779-1784 (testimony), 1791 

Bolton, Ruth I. (Mrs. Arthur Bolton; nee Geitvenauer) 1612, 

1788, 1789-1792 (testimony), 1803 

Bortoluzzi, Dominic 1612 

Bortoluzzi, Mrs. Dominic 1612 

Brader, Lee 1696 

Bradley, Martin R., Jr 1631, 1638, 1691, 1705 

Brook, Sam 1735-1741 (testimony) 

Brown, Charles 1610 

Brown, Charles Warren 1764 

Brownstone, David Martin (alias Frederick Jonathan Werner) 1666- 

1676 (testimony) 

Buczek, Ted 1721 

Buczek, Mrs. Ted 1721 

Burke, Harold P 1807 

Butcher, Robert 1609 

Callahan, Grant 1608, 1619 

Campbell, Dwight, Jr 1771, 1772 

Chatley, Joseph A 1637, 

1638, 1712, 1716-1730 (testimony), 1751, 1773, 1780, 1786, 1801, 1803 

Chazin, Julian 1691-1693 (testimony) 

Clune, Frances L. (Mrs. Michael Clune) 1618, 

1629, 1718, 1720-1722, 1726-1728, 1764, 1792-1795 (testimony) 

Clune, Michael 1618, 1629, 1720-1722, 1726, 1728, 1729, 1764 

Cohen, Gilbert 1676-1685 (testimony) 

Cohen, Irving R 1612, 1774-1777 (testimony) 

Cohen, Julius (alias Jules Parris) 1721 

Cohen, Marna (Mrs. Irving Cohen) 1776 

Cohen, Paul 1776, 1777 

Cohen, Shirley (Mrs. Gilbert Cohen) 1681 

Coleman, Samuel 1611, 1764 

Collins, John 1619 

Czyrny, Joseph 1613 

Deboben (Charles) 1729 

DePasquale, Frank 1700 

DePasquale, Russell J 1613, 1621, 1626, 1722, 1765 

Dichter, Irving 1747 

Dow (or Dowd), Richard 1618 

Doyle, Charles A 1613, 1722, 1765 

Easling, Howard 1613 

Ellis, Henry 1609, 1619, 1722 

Ellis, Johnnie (Mrs. Henry Ellis; nee Lumpkin) 1607, 1619, 1629, 1722 

Fahringer, Harold, Jr 1767, 1787 



ii INDEX 

Page 

Fleming, Robert B 1693, 1701, 1802, 1804 

Foreman, Clark 1622 

Foster. William Z 1622, 1664, 1665 

Franklin, Benjamin 1614, 1624, 1625 

Frasier, Rufus 1609, 1722 

Fried, Concetta (Connie) 1723, 1724 

Fried, Emanuel J 1613, 1614, 1718, 1723, 1725, 1728, 1729, 1765 

Fiied. Floyd F 1613, 1723, 1772-1774 (testimony) 

Friedman, I 1640 

Gaudall. William (P.) 1609 

Gawronski, Joseph M 1784 

Gitlow, Benjamin 1623 

Gordon, Jules H 1753, 1784, 1792 

Gordouier, Mrs. Lyle 1758 

Graves. Luther 1614, 1765 

Green, Carl 1685, 1699, 1735 

Green, Joseph 1609, 1611, 1614, 1712-1717 (testimony), 1724, 1765 

Green, Mattie (Mrs. Joseph Green) 1614 

Halliday, Herbert 1696 

Hanson, Gunnar 1614 

Hassler, Gertrude 1614, 1765 

Hassler, Peggy 1614 

Hoag, Diantha 1609, 1611, 1724, 1765 

Hoffa, James (Jimmy) 1710 

Holder, Preston 172^1726, 1728 

Hubbard, Ralph 1614 

Infante. Joseph C 1614, 1725 

Ingerman. Doris (Mrs. Sidney Ingerman) 1614,1725 

Ingerman, Sidney Herbert-- 1610, 1611, 1614, 1615, 1650-1666 (testimony), 1725 

Jackson, Archie 1615, 1765 

Jackson, Sewell 1610 

James, Maia 1615 

Jones, Everett Sheldon 1699-1701 (testimony) 

Kaplan, Milton 1609, 1611 

Katz, Svea. (See Sommers, Svea.) 

Kinsey, Loyd E 1612, 1716, 1754-1755 (testimony) 1756, 

1757-1758 (testimony), 1763-1767 (testimony), 1772, 1786, 1801 

Kochery, David : 1774, 1779, 1789 

Kosanovich, Nick 1620 

Kustich 1605 

Kustich, Mary 1605 

Lamont, Corliss 1624 

Landy, Edward 1615, 1766 

Largy, Anna (Mrs. Paul Largy) 1615 

Largy, Paul 1615 

Lester, Donald 1612 

Lester, Mrs. Donald 1G12 

Levine, Beverly (Mrs. Israel Levine) 1787-1789 (testimony), 1790 

Levine, Israel 1767-1770 (testimony) 

Lewis, Fulton, Jr 1623, 1624 

Lindquist, Donald 1615, 1766 

Lumpkin, Elmore, Jr 1615 

Lumpkin, Elmore, Sr 1608, 1611, 1615 

Lumpkin, Frances (Mrs. Samuel Lumpkin) 1615, 1616 

Lumpkin, Hattie (Mrs. Elmore Lumpkin, Sr.) 1607, 

1608, 1630, 1722, 1725, 1726, 1766, 1784-1787 (testimony) 
Lumpkin, Johnnie. (See Ellis, Johnnie.) 

Lumpkin, Samuel 1607, 1609, 1616, 1628 

Lutsky, Albert 1616, 1718, 1726 

Maltois. Walter 1619 

Maunilsky, Dimitri Z 1665 

Marqusee, John 1667 

Martin, Grady 1608 

Ma.ver, Frank 1616, 1766 

:MrClpllan, Richard 1618 

Miller, Arnold 1609 



INDEX iii 

Page 

Miller, James l'J'23 

Mintz, Helen 1753-1763 (testimony) , 1767, 1801 

Moore, Oscar IGIO, 1611 

Murphy, Mary 1616 

Nelson, Magnus 1619 

Nelson, S 1"00 

Nelson, Steve 1700 

Norman, Bill 1628 

Nosich, Robert 1616 

Noto, John 1604, 1621, 1622, 1625, 1628, 1718, 1724, 1726 

Nuch'ow, William H 1616, 1705-1712 (testimony), 1726 

Nuchow, Mrs. William H 1616, 1726 

O'Connor, Harvey 1623 

Owen, Homer Leroy 1667 

Paciie, Vincent 1609, 1766, 1771-1772 (testimony) 

Parrino, Peter L 1650 

Parris, Jules. (See Cohen, Julius.) 

Parry, William 1724-1726 

Patti, Joseph 1608 

Phelps, Winthrop H 1645-1650 (testimony), 1807 

Pizer, Morris 1711 

Putter, Norton 1619, 1726, 1766 

Rabinowitz, Victor 1666, 1676 

Regan, Charles V 1604-1630 (testimony), 

1637, 1703, 1712, 1716, 1751, 1766, 1772, 1773, 1780, 1786, 1791, 1792, 

1798, 1801, 1803. 

Regan, Mrs. Charles V 1606 

Reuther, Walter 1625 

Reynolds, Homer 1696 

Richardson, Emmanuel Ross 1667 

Rogovin, Ann (Mrs. Milton Rogovin) 1616, 1727 

Rogovin, Milton 1616, 1727, 1758-1760, 1766, 1799-1802 (testimony) 

Rosenberg, Ethel 1624 

Rosenberg, Julius 1624 

Rosoff, Betty 1613, 1628 

Rosoff, Hymau 1609 

Ross, Norman 1616, 1766 

Ross, R 1640 

Salmin, Alexander 1617,1701-1703 (testimony), 1727, 1803 

Salmin, Nancy (Mrs. Alexander Salmin; nee Hull)- 1617,1802-1804 (testimony) 

Salmon, Joe 1727 

Scheer, Mortimer 1617, 1725, 1727 

Scheer, Phyllis (Mrs. Mortimer Scheer) 1617, 1725. 1727 

Schendel, T 1681 

Schendel, Mrs. T 1681 

Schwartz, Charles 1620 

Scioli, Joseph C 1617, 1727, 1728, 1745-1752 (testimony), 1766 

Shore, Barbara (Mrs. Jack Shore) 1727 

Shore, Jack 1618, 1727 

Shulman, Ben 1619 

Siegel, Morris 1783 

Simon, Hal 1617, 1622, 1625 

Smith, Edwin 1750 

Smith, Theodosia 1619 

Sommers, John 1617 

Sommers, Svea (Mrs. John Sommers, nee Katz) 1612,1617 

Spector, Edward S 1712 

Stein, Max 1730-1735 (testimony) 

Sternbach. William Norman 1617 

Sultz, Bernie (Mrs. Charles Van Tyne) 1619 

Thomas, Gerald 1681 

Thompson, Hugh 1764 

Thompson, Robert 1622 

Thorner, Betty (Mrs. Gerald Thorner) 1696,1798,1804-1806 (testimony) 



iv INDEX 

Page 

Thorner, Gerald (Marshall) 169S-1698 (testimony), 1804 

Tobin, Robert 1617 

Tobin, Svlvia (Mrs. Robert Tobin) 1617, 1795-1798 (testimony) 

Touralchuk, John 1605, 1728 

Touralehuk, Rose (Mrs. John Touralchuk) 160.5, 1728 

Touster, Saul 1741, 1795, 1799 

Travis, Maurice 1751 

Trumbo. Dalton 162.3 

Turoff, Sidney 1676 

Yrai Tyne, Charles 1619 

Velson, (Irving) Charles 1729, 1730 

Wasserman, R 1640 

Watkins, John 1624 

Wells, Joseph 1608 

Werner. Frederick Jonathan. (See Brovpnstone, David Martin) 

Wike, Joyce (Mrs. Preston Holder) 1728 

Williams, Robert 1618, 1766 

Wilson, Hush H 1624 

Wilson, Robert 1608 

Witt, Nathan 1745, 1750 

Wolkenstein, Edveard A 1638-1645 (testimony) 

Wolkenstein, Gloria (Mrs. Edvpard A. Wolkenstein) 1640 

Zane, Clarence 1618 

Zelman, Miroslaw Bogdon 1741-1745 (testimony) 

Organizations 

American Committee To Survey Labor Conditions in Europe 1718 

American Communications Association 1721 

American Labor Party 1637, 1726 

New York State : Erie County 1612, 1618, 1718, 1720, 1722, 1727, 1728, 1751 

New York State Committee 1743 

American Radiator Co 1609, 1617, 1701, 1702 

Automobile, Aircraft, and Agricultural Implement Workers of America, 

CIO 1625 

Bethlehem Steel Corp. (Lackawanna, N. Y.) 1610, 1613, 1626, 1638-1640, 1668, 

1669, 1672, 1675, 1680, 1681, 1692-1696, 1699, 1730, 1735, 1742, 1766, 1769 

BufCalo Steel Co 1610, 1651, 1712 

Camp Lakeland 1783, 1784, 1796 

CIO 1721 

Industrial Union Council 1723 

Communist Party : 

New York State 1613, 1617, 1765 

Erie County 1611, 1615, 1616, 1722, 1726, 1754, 1764 

Buffalo : 

Cell within Republic Steel Corp 1627 

East Side Club 1613, 1618 

Ellicott district 1786 

Industrial Section 1608, 1611 

Bond Club 1609 

Fur and Leather Club 1610 

General Motors Club 1608, 1610 

Steel Club 1610, 1654, 1662, 1664 

Westinghouse Club 1609 

John Reed Club. ( See University of Buffalo, John Reed 
Club.) 

North Park Section 1616, 1618, 1619 

Riverside Club 1604, 1605, 1607, 1608, 1616 

University of Buffalo Group (U. B. Group) 1718, 1726 

Youth Section 1610, 1612, 1616-1619 

Lackawanna 1620 

Steel Section 1621 

State Committee 1714 

State Convention, July 1946, Buffalo 1621 

Steel Section 1655, 1656, 1658, 1659. 1662, 17.54 

Trade Union Commission 1617, 1622, 1625 



INDEX V 

Communist Political Association : Page 

Downtown Club 1606, 1618 

Fifth Ward Club 1607 

Dante Tenants Council 1703 

Dartmouth College 1793, 1794 

Donner-Hanna Coke Corp 1651 

East Side Peace Group 1725, 1729 

Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers, International Union of 1771 

Local 315 1688, 1689, 1691 

Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, United 1609, 

1612-1615, 1619, 1718, 1721, 1725 

Local 326 1687 

Emergency Civil Liberties Committee 1622-1624, 1649 

Fedders Manufacturing Co 1619 

Furniture Workers of America, United 1705, 1710 

Gas, Coke, and Chemical Workers of America, United, CIO 1722 

General Motors Corp., Buffalo 1625 

Chevrolet Motor Division 1607, 1608, 1618, 1625 

Hanna Coke Corp. {See Donner-Hanna Coke Corp.) 

Hanna Furnace Corp 1610 

// This Be Treason 1663 

International Workers Order 1605, 1718, 1728 

Labor Youth League 1718, 1725-1727 

Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers, International Union of 1614, 

1617, 1728, 1745, 1747, 1750, 1752 

Political Action Committee 1748 

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 1785, 1797 

National Guardian 1726 

National Lawyers Guild 1754, 1761 

National Negro Labor Council, Buffalo 1715 

National Student Association, Metropolitan New York Region, Academic 

Freedom Commission 1770 

New York University 1642, 1643 

Progressive Party 1726 

Queens College 1678-1680 

Republic Steel Corp 1610, 1631, 1634, 1635 

Steelworkers of America, United : 

Local 1198 1713 

Local 1199 1702 

Local 1743 1636 

Local 2121 1713 

Local 2601 1736, 1737 

Tube Manifold Corp 1650, 1651, 1659 

United States Government, National Labor Relations Board 1749, 1750 

University of Buffalo, John Reed Club 1654, 1663 

Westinghonse Electric Corp 1609, 1610, 1628, 1685, 1723, 1724, 1771-1773 

Wickwire Steel Co 1616 

Win-the-Peace Commitee, Buffalo Chapter 1753 

YWCA, Buffalo 1788-1791, 1803, 1805 

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