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HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY

GIFT OF THE

GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
NEW ENGLAND AREA— PART 2

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

MARCH 19, 1958

Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities

INDEX IN PART 3

UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
24777 WASHINGTON : 1958

HARVARD COLLEGE UBRARt

DEPOSITED BY THE
UNlUn STATES GOVERNM€JiX

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES

United States House of Representatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio

WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia ROBERT J. McINTOSH, Michigan

Richard Aee.vs, Staff Director
II

CONTENTS

PART 1

Page

Synopsis 2081

Tuesday, March 18, 1958: Testimony of—

Armando Penha 2090

Afternoon session:

Armando Penha (resumed) 2111

Ralph C. Lofsky 2133

Samuel Appel 2139

Armando Penha (resumed) 2151

Samuel Appel (resumed) 2152

Otis Archer Hood 2156

Anne Burlak Timpson 2158

Joseph Sherman 2164

PART 2

Wednesday, March 19, 1958: Testimony of —

Irving Fishman 2174

Eleanor Suske 2174

Dorothy Friedman 2192

Muriel Gravelle McAvoy 2201

Afternoon session:

Louis C. Wyman 2204

Sidney Ravden 2224

David Murray Fein (Fine) 2230

Manuel Cordeiro, Jr 2241

Olga Garczynski 2246

Harold Lester Lewengrub 2250

James Rex. 2256

p]vening session:

Daniel Boone Schirmer 2258

Armando Penha (resumed) 2268

PART 3

Thursday, March 20, 1958: Testimonv of—

Carol Harris Foster 2284

Albert D'Orlando (executive testimony ,* March 14, 1958, Wash-
ington, D. C.) •- 2311

Afternoon session:

Arnold Schwartz 2321

Paul S. Rosenkrants 2328

Robert Handman 2337

Elias Snitzer 2340

Homer B. Chase 2356

George Sheldrick 2362

Anthony DiBiase 2364

Douglas Neil Perry 2367

Armando Penha (resumed) 2371

Douglas Neil Perry (resumed) 2372

Jerrv (Jerome) Olrich 2377

Joseph K. Chase 2381

Friday, March 21, 1958: Testimony of —

Armando Penha (resumed) 2388

Roy Rogerson 2403

Philip W. Lefavour 2405

Benning Maskiewicz 2412

John Russo . 2416

John G. Hovan 2417

' Released by the committee and ordered to be printed.

Public Law 601, 79th Congress

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter
753, 2d session, which provides:

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Rule X

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES

17. Committee on Un-Americau Activities, to consist of nine Members.

Rule XI

POWERS AND DUTIES OP COMMITTEES

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.

(A) Un-American activities.

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary
remedial legislation.

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.

Rule XII

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES

Sec 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the law's
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces-
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the jurisdic-
tion of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports
and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of
the Government.

RULES ADOPTED BY THE 85TH CONGRESS

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1957
*******

Rule X

STANDING COMMITTEES

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con-
gress,

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.

Rule XI

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES

17. Committee on Un-American Activities.

(a) Un-American activities.

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.

26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government.

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
NEW ENGLAND AREA— PART 2

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 19, 1958

Unitp:i) States House of Representatives,

Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,

Boston^ Mass.

PUBLIC hearing

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 : 10 a. m. in Courtroom No. 3,
the United States Court House and Post Office Building, Boston,
Mass., Hon. Morgan M. Moulder (chairman of the subcommittee),
presiding.

Committee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moulder,
of Missouri; Clyde Doyle, of California; Bernard W. Kearney, of
New York, and Robert J. Mcintosh, of Michigan.

Staif members present: Richard Arens, staff director; George C.
Williams and Frank Bonora, investigators.

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.

I would like the record to show the receipt of a telegram from Ed-
win E. Willis of Louisiana, member of this committee, as follows:

Have to be present during the debate on habeas corpus bill on the floor this
afternoon or tomorrow. Therefore regret inability to be with you. Wish suc-
cessful hearings.

Regards.

Edwin E. Willis, Member of Congress.

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I want to call the attention of the
committee to a television statement made last night by one of the
witnesses here yesterday, namely, Otis Hood.

Now, it must be understood, first of all, that the individual was not
under oath at the time he made his statement, but his statement was
so full of falsehoods that I just wonder how naive he thinks the
American people are.

And one of the portions of his statement that struck me as remark-
able was the fact that through his many years as a member of the
Communist Party and as a candidate for Governor of the State of
Massachusetts, he has the audacity to tell his listeners that the Com-
munist conspiracy was not dedicated to the overthrow of our Govern-
ment by force or violence. As I say, the statement, of course, was
made while not under oath.

Mr. Moulder. Is that all, Mr. Kearney ?

Mr. Kearney. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MoLTLDER. You may proceed, Mr. Arens.

2173

2174 COMMUNIST ACTIVniES IN THE NEW ENGLAND ARElA

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, may I respectfully suggest that for the
purpose of accommodating those who, because of professional com-
mitments are obliged to be here at the hearings, the press, radio and
others, the Chair might want to make his announcement respecting the
evening session so that they can make the necessary arrangement for
their organizations.

Mr. Moulder. The committee has agreed to hold hearings during
the evenings, beginning at 7 : 30 p. m., probably lasting until ten or
ten-thirty.

Mr. Arens. The first witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be
Mr. Irving Fishman, accompanied by his associate in the United
States Customs Service, Miss Eleanor Suske.

Mr. Moulder. Do you want both witnesses sworn ?

Mr. Arens. Yes. They are together.

Mr. Moulder. Do you and each of you solemnly swear that the
testimony which you are about to give before this subcommittee of
the United States Congress will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God.

Mr. Fishman. I do.

Miss SusKE. I do.

TESTIMONY OF IRVING FISHMAN AND ELEANOR SUSKE

Mr. Arens. Will each of you kindly identify yourself by name, resi-
dence, and occupation ?

Mr, Fishman. My name is Irving Fishman, Deputy Collector of
Customs at the Port of New York.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, would you kindly give us a descrip-
tion of your responsibility as Deputy Collector of Customs in New
York?

Mr. Fishman. The United States Customs Service, in cooperation
with the Post Office Department, a number of years ago set up a pro-
cedure for the control of the importation of propaganda materials,
from the Soviet Bloc countries.

The Treasury Department assigned me to head that project on a
nationwide basis.

Mr. Arens. Miss Suske, would you kindly give us a word of identi-
fication of yourself, please ?

Miss SusKE. Yes. My name is Eleanor Suske. I reside in New
York City. I am an administrative assistant to Deputy Collector
Fishman in the office of the Collector of Customs at the Port of New
York.

Mr. Arens. Miss Suske, may I suggest that you feel free to supple-
ment and assist Mr. Fishman, particularly in the matter of statistics
as we proceed in the examination. Just volunteer any informatioji
which in your judgment and in Mr. Fishman's judgment is desirable
in response to the question.

Mr. Fishman, would you kindly initiate your presentation this
morning by alluding to the principal provisions of the various statutes
which deal with or relate to the subject matter of importation of po-
litical propaganda.

Mr. Fishman. Under the Tariff Act of 1930 subversive materials,
which advocate treason or insurrection against the United States, are
prohibited importation into the United States.

CJOMMUNIiST ACTIVITIE.S IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2175

And the sendino; of political proi)agaiKla materials to the United
States from a Soviet Bloc country by the mails or by means other
than the mails unsolicited and intended for dissemination in the
United States, may be a violation of the Foreign Agents Registration
Act. The Department of Justice has expressed the opinion that simi-
lar materials arriving in the United States from abroad by means
other than the mails may be seized as an importation contrary to law
under Section 545 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

It is important to note that the Justice Department has held that
persons not within the United States who use interstate or foreign com-
merce within the United States to disseminate foreign political propa-
ganda may be regarded as acting within the United States and there-
fore subject to the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

Mr. Arens. May I ask 3'ou the principal provisions of the Foreign
Agents Registration Act ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. So far as the project we are about to discuss this
morning is concerned, the principal provisions deal with the neces-
sity for properly identifying or labeling this material, and the exemp-
tion from the requirements of the labeling provisions of the Act,
which apply to several categories of individuals and lirms within the
United States, such as registered agents or embassy and consulate
employees, and also to some degree the provisions of the Act which
define Communist or political propaganda.

Mr. Arens. May I undertake to interpret, perhaps in a simpler form
the provisions of the Act and you correct me on the basis of your
intensive background and experience.

Is it true that under the Foreign Agents Registration Act there is no
numerical limitation on the quantity, the amount of political propa-
ganda that may be imported into the United States ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. By these exemptions ?

Mr. Akens. Yes.

Mr. FiSHMAN. No, sir, there is no limitation at all.

Mr. Arens. There is no quantitative limitation ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. There is no quantitative limitation.

Mr. Arens. Is it true that any of the propaganda imported into the
United States destined to a registered agent is absolutely free to pass?

Mr. FiSHMAN. It is absolutely free to pass. Of course, the agents,
since they are registered with the Department of Justice, are required
to comply with certain sections of the Foreign Agents Registration
Act.

Mr. Arens. Now, under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, one
who imports political propaganda is obliged to do two things :

One ; register with the Department of Justice as an agent of a foreign
principal and, two, to label the propaganda which he imports with a
stamp which indicates that it is political propaganda. Is that correct ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. How long have you been in the Customs Service ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. Some thirty years.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, is there any control exercised to any de-
gree over political propaganda which comes in first-class mail ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. None. First-class mail is exempt from examination
and we respect the privacy of the seal.

Mr. Arens. Is there any control whatsoever exercised over political
propaganda imported destined to people in diplomatic status ?

2176 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. FiSHMAN. No, no control.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, the principal control points of
the Customs Service in the United States where political propaganda
arriving in the United States is processed ?

]\fr. FisiiMAX. There are some forty-five points of entry into the
United States, but because of budgetary limitations, we find it neces-
sary to limit the nimiber of control units established around the
country.

We currently have directed all mail from Soviet Bloc countries, in-
cluding China, to three control points:

One in San Francisco, one in Chicago, and one in New York.

Mr. Arens. So that the record may be clear, may we confine our
observations and comments from here on, unless otherwise specifically
indicated, to Communist propaganda, coming from Red Bloc coun-
tries to these three control points.

Mr. FisHMAN. All right, sir.

Mr. Arens. Please give us an indication of the volume of Com-
munist political propaganda which is arriving in the United States
and which comes witliin the purview of the control processes of the
Customs Service.

Miss SusKE. I can supply the committee with that information.

On a countrywide basis and covering the three control units for
the year of 1957, approximately four and a half million packages
were received from the Soviet Bloc countries.

Mr. Arens. How many individual publications would be in each
package, on the average ?

Miss SusKE. On the average from four pieces in eacli package.

Mr. Arens. That would mean about seventeen million individual
magazines or individual publications, such as we see displayed here
on this table per year, is that correct?

Miss SusKE. Yes, that is correct.

Mr. Arens. Please, tell the committee is this importation of Com-
munist propaganda increasing or decreasing?

Miss SusKE. It is definitely increasing. I also brought along statis-
tics from the year 1956 which sliows a definite increase of approxi-
mately 30 percent in the last year.

Mr. Arens. And was there a comparable increase last year over
the preceding year ?

MissSusKE. Yes, exactly.

Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you, in the course of your ex-
perience in the Customs Service, have you ever seen one single piece
of Communist propaganda of these millions of pieces which arrive
every year, seventeen million in the last figure, that was labeled or
stamped, Communist political propaganda as required by the Foreign
Agents Registration Act ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. At the time of im])ortation we have j^et to see a piece
properly labeled.

We have observed in the Library of Congress, for example, and
the law contemplates that the registered agents file witli the Library
of Congress a co])y of every publication of this type which is im-
ported into the United States — I have seen the type of labeling re-
quired by law and it reads as follows:

A copy of this material has been filed with the Foreign Agents Registration
Section, Department of Justice, Washington, D. C, where the registration state-

coMMtnsnsT activities m the new England area 2177

ment of Imported Publications and Products, 4 West 16th Street, New Yorlv 11,
New York, as an agent of the foreign publisher or distributor of this publication
is available for inspection. The fact of registration does not indicate approval or
disapproval of this material by the Government of the United States of America.

I would like to add just one observation here, Mr. Arens, and that
is that the Treasury Department considers the Foreign Agents Regis-
tration Act as a disclosure type statute. I would like to make it clear
that it is not our policy, neither do we intend, to withhold this type of
material from the American public. We feel, however, that it is a
requirement of law that the American public in reading this material
have an opportunity to evaluate its source.

Mr. Arens. In other words, you have the same theory undergirding
the Foreign Agents Registration that undergirds the Food and Drug
Laws.

Mr, Fishman. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Namely, that a person can have poison in his medicine
cabinet if he wants to, but the law requires that the poison be marked
"Poison."

Mr. FiSHiNiAN. That is correct.

Mr. Arexs. There is no censorship whatsoever in the processing of
this material ?

Mr, Fisiiman. Any of this material that is solicited or requested by
anyone in the United States is released to that addressee immediately.

Mr. Arens. But in your thirty years' experience in the United
States Customs Service, you as chief of this operation have yet to see
one single magazine, one single bulletin, one single item in this flood
of Communist propaganda, which has been labeled as required by the
Foreign Agents Registration Act ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct. I have yet to see one.

Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you another question along this same
line.

Is this material circulated through the United States mails ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. Yes, it is.

Mr. Arens. And you know, of course, that the United States mails
are not self-sustaining.

Mr. Fisiiman. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. In other words, Mr. Fishman, is it true that this flood
of Communist propaganda which is being disseminated over the
United States without proper labeling is being transported, in part,
at least, at the expense of the United States taxpayer ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. As it would apply to any other mail that is being
distributed or delivered in the United States mails.

Mr. Moulder. That is, any other second- or third-class mail ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. I didn't get the question.

Mr. Moulder. First-class mail, of course, pays its own way.

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. Most of this class of mutter or 95
percent of it comes in the parcel post or ordinary mail, fourth class,
third class.

Mr. Moulder, Third or fourth class.

Mr. Doyle. That means seventeen million pieces distributed to the
American people gratis or subsidized by the American taxpavers?

Mr. FiSHMAN. To some degree that is true.

Mr. Doyi.e. To what degree?

2178 COMMUNIST ACTIVITTES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA

Mr. FisHMAX. I ;un not sm expert on post-office matters, but I
would assume that, if the ])ostal service loses money on delivery of
any other type of third- and fourth-class mail, it would lose an equal
amount on the delivery of this type of third- and fourth-class mail.

Mr. Doyle. That is, it would lose a percentage on seventeen million
pieces.

Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct.

Mr. Arexs. In addition to these seventeen million pieces which were
processed by the Customs Service last year, you have an indeterminate
amount of Communist propaganda items that went first class?

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right.

Mr. Arens. You have no wny of estimating how much ?

Mr. FiSHMAX. We have no Avay of knowing that. We have no
Avay of knowing, for example, how much of this material has been
sent into the ITnited States through friendly countries. That is on
the increase, too. We have had a number of complaints from Mem-
bers of Congress about the influx of such Conmiunist material through
Canada.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, you took a trip at the behest of this com-
mittee, as a special consultant to this committee, to Europe some
several months ago, to check on certain items of information respect-
ing Communist propaganda that is being pumped into the United
States from non-Communist countries, did you not?

INIr. Fishman. I did.

Mr. Arens. Would you give us on this record a word summary, a
l)icture summary, of the overall findings which you made on that
trip?

Mr. Feshman. Confining it to France, for example, we found that
in Paris anyone could buy any quantity of this material and send it
into the United States without any control at all. The bookshops
run by the Soviet Government in Paris had complete collections of
all of this material and to some extent even a finer selection than was
available through the Soviet Union.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, let us get on the next subject; namely,
the amount of this Communist propaganda processed by customs,
which is and has been destined to the greater Boston area?

Mr. Fishman. As I have previously stated, we do not have a special
unit assigned to the Port of Boston. Instead, most of the mail destined
for the New England area is intercepted in New York. At the re-
quest of the committee, however, we did make a check and determined
actually the volume of this material which was sent into this area,
including the last tAvo months. I think Miss Suske has that informa-
tion.

Mr. Arens. Give us the information. Miss Suske, if you please.

Miss StrsKE. There was an estimate of approximately 20,000 pack-
ages destined to the New England area.

Mr. Arens. Let me be sure I understand that and the record re-
flects accurately.

These 20,000 packages of Communist propaganda were in the course
of the last two months

Miss Suske. That is right.

Mr. Arens. ^Which were processed, to your certain knowledge

into the Boston area?

Miss Suske. Yes.

COMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES EN THE NEW ENXJLAND AREA 2179

Mr. Arens. Would it be approximately the same number of indi-
vidual items in each parcel ?

Miss SusKE. Yes. We have found that averaging four pieces to
a package would be correct.

Mr. Arens. That would be about 80,000 in the last two months ?

Miss SusKE. That is exactly correct.

Mr. Arens. This is material processed from Communist Bloc
countries-

Miss SusKE. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. ■ in bulk shipments, not first class mail?

Miss SusKE. No.

Mr. Arens. Not mail coming from Communist sources in non-Com-
munist countries, is that correct ?

Miss Suske. That is exactly correct, sir.

Mr. Kearney. Do you know to whom these packages are addressed,
individuals or book stores ?

Miss SusKE. Yes. For the most part, Congressman, they are ad-
dressed to individuals.

Mr. Kearney. Mostly addressed to individuals?

Miss SusKE. Yes.

Mr. Kearney. Have any of these individuals who received these
packages ever complained to the Customs people or the Post Office
people, to your knowledge ?

Miss Suske. Yes, they do, on occasion. I believe Mr. Fishman
has a few of those letters with him.

Mr. Fishman. We hear through the individual directly or through
the Post Office Department and very frequently from the Representa-
tive in Congress of the district about the shipment of this material.
In many cases, the addressee pleads with the Post Office Department
not to deliver the mail. Where we have such a specific request we
will intercept it. But for the most part we have no control and must
deliver. But there are many people who want no part of this type
of propaganda.

Mr. Arens. Are they addressed mostly to foreign-born?

Mr. Fishman. That is correct. The procedure and the practice is
apparently for the propaganda machine in tlie Soviet Union to ob-
tain either telephone directories or directories of organizations com-
posed of people of foreign extraction. The Polish American Con-
gress has some 250,000 members and obtaining the roster of the mem-
bership of that organization will provide a propaganda outfit Avith
quite a batch of addresses to send material to.

Mr. Arens. What percentage of this material is in foreign
language ?

Mr. Fishman. About 60 percent of it.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, kindly tell us something of the content
of the individual documents. In other words, what I am driving at
now — does the document in every instance by its content clearly
reveal that it is Communist, or is it more insidious, more sug-
gestive

Mr. Fishman. It has become much more insidious.

Mr. Arens. Is it more subtle ?

Mr. Fishman. Much more subtle in the past few years. It used to
be pretty flagrant at one time. But apparently, feeling that it was

2180 OOMMUNIST ACTIMTIES IX THE NEW EuSTGLAJ^D AREIA.

much wiser to sweeten up the type of propaganda that is being used,
the current material very cautiously approaches problems and situa-
tions before the American public and treats them from a Communist
viewpoint.

Mr. Arens. Could you give us a word, Mr. Fishman, by alluding to
each of several typical examples which I see you have on the table?
I see one which apparently is m Czechoslovakian.

Mr. FisHMAx. 1 have some examples here that we extracted from
the mails.

Mr. Arexs. Give us a brief reference to several of them, please.

Mr. FisHJiAX. This is a publication entitled "Post "War Rehabilita-
tion and Development of the National Economy of DPRK."

This book points out what the Soviet Union has done for Korea,
saying that Korea was liberated by the great Soviet Army on August
15, 1945 and that the—

great Soviet people gave disinterested assistance and support to the Korean
people to acliieve great success in fields of politics, economy and culture during
the five years of peaceful economic construction prior to the war.

It condemns "the United States imperialists" for occupying South
Korea with armed forces, thus creating a complicated situation in
Korea ; for suppressing democratic forces and scheming for national
split by calling together the reactionary forces while pursuing a preda-
tory policy of colonizing Soutli Korea ; for invading the northern
part of the Republic, and so on.

Mr. Arex^s. Is this material destined to schools and colleges, as well
as to individuals ?

Mr. FiSHMAX. That is right.

Mr. Arex'^s. Is it destined to libraries?

Mr. FisHMAX. It is sent to many libraries, practically all of the
libraries of educational institutions around the country.

Mr. Arexs. On the basis of your background and extensive experi-
ence is there anything obvious about this material which one who is
not versed in the Communist line and Communist techniques would
discern as Communist propaganda ?

Mr. FisHMAx". No. No claim is made as to the place of printing or
where the thing was published. You might pick it up and think it
was somthing published here in the United States. Some of it does, of
course, indicate its foreign origin, but does not explain where it comes
from.

Here is a popular booklet printed in German, which has a number
of articles, including one ridiculing tlie United States Armed Forces
in Germany, explaining that the Government braiuAvashes its citizens
by giving them books to read which have a ridiculously low spiritual
level.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, does it occur to you, as a person who
has spent many years in this field, how ludicrous it is that the Com-
munist operation in the United States would suspend publication of
one of their journals, the Daily "Worker, in New York City, on the
theory that they could not afford to produce this publication and
then send into the United States this flood of material which on
its face indicates that it is very expensive to produce ?

Mr. Fishman. It does seem very strage.

Mr. Arens. Do you suppose there might be a ruse there ?

C'OMMUTS'IIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2181

Mr. FisHMAN. I don't know what the plan was, but I have an idea
they had so much of this coming in that they did not need anything
published domestically.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, is there any advertising in those publica-
tions which would sustain the cost of their printing ?

Mr. Fishman. No. Strangely enough, unlike publications of a simi-
lar nature here in the United States, there is no advertising at all.

Mr. Arens. How would these publications, at least some of them,
compare with some of our popular magazines, let us say Life Mag-
azine, or Look Magazine, or the Saturday Evening Post, in quality
of paper, photogra})liic reproductions, and the like.

Mr. Fishman. Here is the Soviet Union, which is published in Kus-
sian, English, Chinese, Korean, Hindu, Urdu, Arabic, Vietnamese,
Serbo-Croat, Fi-euch, German, Spanish, Finnish and Japanese, wliicli
resembles pretty much our own Life Magazine, and I hope there is
where the resemblance ends. I would assume this costs to produce,
without advertising, ten or twenty times what Life Magazine costs
to produce.

Mr. Arens. It is our information that the Soviet Union is annually
spending over three billion dollars on foreign Communist propaganda.
Do you have any information upon which you can confirm that on the
basis of your experience ?

Mr. Fishman. We have heard similar information and I believe
a statement was made by the United States Information Agency
to that extent some time ago.

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to these mail sacks?

Do you recall some several days ago when you were undertaking
your spot check here that I asked if you would bring down, unopened,
a few typical examples of the mail bags of materials from Iron Curtain
countries destined to the Greater Boston area and open them for the
first time during this proceeding. Would you kindly, just at random,
select one of those mail sacks? And may I ask before you leave the
microphone, have you sampled any of these mail sacks ?

Mr. Fishman. No, we have not.

Mr. Arens. This is typical ?

Mr. Fishman. That is correct.

Mr. Arens. Kindly proceed to open one of those mail sacks and give
us the benefit of your observation on the material that is coming into
this area via New York City from the Iron Curtain countries.

Mr. Fishman. (Complying) Shall we dump this entire mail sack?

Mr. Arens. I think it will be quite all right. Mr. Fishman, I
asked you a little while ago if you on the basis of your thirty years'
experience have ever seen a single item of this Communist propa-
ganda from Iron Curtain countries flooding the ITnited States which
is labeled as such as required by law. You said you had not. Do
you know of anyone who has?

Mr. Fishman. No, not to my knowledge. No one in my service,
anyhow.

Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir.

Would you kindly tell us what is that material you have just
dumped out of the mail sack ?

Mr. Fishman. We seem to have chosen an appropriate mail sack.
The reason I say tliis, is that the House Un-American Activities Com-

2182 COMMUNrST activities in ITIE NEW ENGLAND AREIA

inittee in Wiishiii^toii a iiumbei- of months ago, almost a year or so
ago, did a heroic job in my opinion in connection with the "redefec-
tion program'' or "return to homeland program,'' by callino; to the
attention of tlie American public the fact that this redefection ma-
terial coming into the United States was part of a propaganda plan
rather than the business of singling out an individual in the country
and approaching him with a suggestion that he return to the countr}^
of his origin. This sack contains nothing but redefection material.

JSIr. Arens. AVhat do you mean by redefection material, Mr. Fish-
man ?

Mr. FisHMAN. This is a batch of material addressed to people who
have their origin in particular countries, explaining how wonderful it
is, and would be to come back to their homeland, making mention of
the fact that anything they may have done before they left would be
forgiven, talking about all the advantages of coming back and all of
the things the government is now doing for their people.

Here is one Hungarian newspaper, for example: the entire paper
contains articles which are destined to lure the immigrant back, even
showing him how wonderful life is at present in Hungary and point-
ing out how uncertain and sad life is abroad.

Mr. x\rexs. I believe I would be in violation of the postal regula-
tions if I called off names, but I observe here a number of these small
white envelopes from Berlin, apparently from East Berlin. Here is
one addressed to Rochdale, Massachusetts, another one to Norwood,
Massachusetts, another to Springfield, Massachusetts, another to Rox-
bury, Massachusetts, to individual recipients, apparently with foreign
names, that is, names of foreign derivation, I will put it that way for
want of a better word for the moment.

There are many for Boston, Massachusetts.

What are the contents of these letters ? Would we be violating a law
to open one of them ?

Mr. FisHMAN, No.

Mr. Arens. Do you want to open one of them ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. We can tell from the format of this envelope that
it is a "return to the homeland" request.

Mr. Arens. You mean it is a request by somebody or by some agency
under Communist control in East Berlin to the individual recipient of
a foreign language name urging him to pull up stakes here in the
United States and return ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right.

Mr. Arens. You just opened one of them. In what language is that ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is Lithuanian.

Mr. Arens. xYnd I take it that

Mr. FiSHMAN. It is the same type. I was looking for a sample of
this particular publication.

Mr. Arens. Do you read Lithuanian, by the way ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. Unfortunately not.

Mr. Arens. Have you on the basis of prior experience seen similar
publications coming from behind the Iron Curtain urging that this
I'edefection program be developed ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. That is right.

Mr. Kearney. Also, Mr. Fishman, the mail we have here seems to
be addressed by the same mimeograph machine or addressograph
machine.

COMMUNIST ACTlVITIEiS IN THiE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2183

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. All of these are published in the same
place, but in different languages.

Incidentally, you might be interested in knowing that quite apart
from the statistics which Ave have given you, the redefection program
alone sends into the United States some 1*25,000 individually addressed
envelopes per week.

Mr. Doyle. Per week ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. Just on this one program alone.

Mr. Arens. Are these 125,000 envelopes being sent in a week on the
redefection program of Comnuinists in addition to the other material
Ave are talking about ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. That is right. That is tlie exact figure.

This material is printed in the form of a newspaper in eight lan-
guages, Russian, Byelorussian, Georgian, Ukrainian, Estonian, Lat-
vian, Lithuanian, and Rumanian.

Mr. Doyle. When you say 125,000 a week individually addressed,
do you mean by pen and ink ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. No, in this same format. We have seen these,
and otliers of the same type in great volume around the country. Tlie
sender is always the same. There is no sender's name but just an
address, and made up the same way, the same fashion.

Mr. DoYT.E. How long has that been going on, this 125,000 a week?

Mr. FisHMAN. For at least two and a half years that we know of.

Mr. Doyle. Tavo and a hal f years ?

Mr. FisHMAN. It has been on the increase. It quieted down con-
siderably after the House Un-American Activities Committee gave it
some publicity. The results of the hearings Avere picked up by many
of the domestic foreign language ncAvspapers and spread around, and
many people became aware of the progi'am. Actually some of the
correspondence which we received from people in connection with this
redefection material is crudely written but the point is made very
clear.

Here is a letter Avhich states :

I (lid not order anything from Germany, so I do not know what kind of stuff
would be in the package. I guess the package contains some books or leaflets
sent by Russia from East Berlin where they have offices and where they bother
refugees calling them to go back. If this would be the case it is better to send
back the material and not to send it to me.

Mr. Doyle. What did you mean Avhen you said "it was picked up
by the foreign newspapers."

Mr. Ftshman. The results of the hearings in Wasliington of tlie
Un-American Activities Committee. It was made quite clear by the
hearing that this redefection program Avas part of an organized plan.

The aA'erage indiA'idual up until that time having receiA'ed one of
these felt that the propaganda machine or some intelligence outfit in
Germany or East German}^ or in Russia had finally located the indi-
vidual here in this country and was applying to him directly to come
back and that scared the life out of a lot of people.

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand the foreign language iieAvspapers in
our country cooperated, in effect, with this committee and the United
States Congress in divulging tliat information to the people of foreign
extraction in the TTnited States ^

24777— 58— pt. 2-

2184 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right. We saw comments concerning the
hearings in many foreign-language newspapers.

Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt by asking — you read a letter a mo-
ment ago.

Mr. FisHMAN. One of the addressees of this type of letter.

Mr. Moulder. I didn't hear it very clearly. Could you reread it?

Mr. FisHMAN. Yes. We had notified this person that we had taken
one of these items away from him. This person happens to be a mem-
ber of the clergy. And he said :

I did not order anything from Germany, so I do not know what kind of stuff
would be in the package. I guess the package contains some books or leaflets
sent by Russia from East Berlin where they have offices and where they bother
refugees calling them to go back. If this would be the case it is better to send
back the material and not to send it to me.

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your background and experience, please
express publicly what you believe is the purpose, the objective and
design of the Communist conspiracy in flooding this redefection ma-
terial into the United States.

Mr. FisiiMAN. I doubt very much whether it will cause a rush of
people back to the country of their origin. I suspect for one thing
it provides the Communist machine with a means of distribution of
their material here i]i the United States. It can keep the people con-
tinuously posted on what is supposed to be going on in the foreign
country and also what is supposed to be going on in the United States.
Many of the recipients of this material do not read English language
newspapers. They have to depend, for the most part, on what they
can obtain or glean from a foreign language newspaper, and receiv-
ing something of this type, and reading some of the articles, whether
they are true or not, many of the people who receive them may be-
lieve them, since we of the United States liave Jio ojiportunity to reach
them by our own newspapers and say whether this is or is not so.

National issues are taken up in many of these publications.

Mr. Arens. Is it a propaganda device of the conspiracy ?

Mr. FisHMAN. We think so, definitely. We do not consider that
this will convince many people that they should rush right back to
the Soviet Union.

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I observe this: It is not only
propaganda, it is part of the cold war, the malicious attack against
our system of Government and the customs of the people in the United
States. It is part of the cold war. That is what it is. It is more
than propaganda.

Mr. Moulder. The Chair recognizes Mr. Kearney.

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Fishman, isn't it true that a great portion of
these propaganda magazines come from Mexico City into the United
States?

Mr. Fisifman. It is a means of getting this material into the United
States. The fact that Ave have these control units is very well known.
And there is a continuous effort to by-pass our control by using
friendly countries who are completely unaware of this fact tliat their
mails are being used to ship this material into the United States.

Mr. Kearney. Let me go one step further, then. Isn't it true that
Mexico City is one of the largest avenues in the world for the sending
of propaganda, Communistic propaganda, to the United States?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2185

Mr. FisHMAN. We know from our own experience that the U. S.
S. R. Embassy in Mexico is perhaps the most active point from which
propao;anda is sent into the South American countries and into the
United States.

Mr, Kearney. You might say it is one of the largest printing
presses in the world.

IVIr. FisHMAN. That is right.

Mr. Arens. In addition to material tliat is pumped into the United
States from Iron Curtain countries and from Communist operations
in non-Communist countries, could you give us a word about Com-
munist propaganda wdiich is sent to the United States in transit?

Mr. FisHMAN. The volume of intransit mail has never decreased,
to my knowledge. As the House Un-American Activities Committee
knows from the testimony which was given to it in New Orleans, we
found that some thousands of sacks of mail containing political propa-
ganda. Communist propaganda, daily moves through the Port of New
Orleans on its way from South America into other South American
countries and into the United States.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, are you acquainted with the provisions
of H. R. 1)937, w'hicli was introduced by the chairman of this com-
mittee in the Congress some several months ago?

Mr. Fishman. I am.

Mr. Arens. And those proA'isions pertaining to amendments to the
Foreign Agents Registration Act which undertake to deal with cer-
tain pliases of the problems you have been discussing?

Mr. Fishman. I am.

Mr. Arens. We would appreciate your observations and comments
publicly on those provisions of the Act.

Mr. Fishman. We are particularly concerned or interested in cer-
tain amendments to the Foreign Agents Registration Act and we feel
that these amendments will, to a great extent, alleviate this situation.
The most important or significant amendment to the law w^hich con-
cerns us is the requirement that this labeling be attached to the
publication at the time of importation. Such a requirement to me
is not a very unusual one, since, as 3^011 yourself pointed out some
time ago, the requirement that food and drug products be properly
identified or foreign products be identified with their origin is one
tliat attaches at the time of importation. It would seem only fair that
this same requirement attach here at the time of importation rather
than to permit the registered agent at some time subsequent to receiv-
ing this article to decide for himself whether it is propaganda or
whether he shall label it.

Mr. Arens. Just in passing, may I say, do you have any informa-
tion reflecting how easy or soft the Soviets are on any propaganda
that we undertake to get into their country ?

Mr. FisH:srAN. We heard Congressman Doyle speak about this ex-
change of publications, the publication "America" which we send over
ill exchange for the publication ''U. S. S. R." which comes here. This
American publication is continuously returned to us as nonsalable.
In other words, the Soviets claim no one wants to buy the ])ublication
over ill the Soviet Union. Actually, we have heard they just do not
put it on sale and that those they do put on sale are snatched up
immediately.

Mr. Arens. In other words, we have a little exchange agreement
that we let one magazine in officially and they are supposed to let

2186 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

one of ours in officially, but don't, and then send this flood in every
month ? Is that correct ?

Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct.

Mr. Moulder, The committee Avill stand in recess for a period of
five minutes.

(Brief recess.)

(Committee members present: Representatives Moulder, Doyle and
Kearney. )

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, the statl interi-ogation is concluded, but
I want to inquire whether any members of the committee have ques-
tions.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, do you have any questions to ask of the
witnesses?

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Fishman, you gave to me during the few minutes of
intermission two copies of this Moscow News. I gee one is dated Feb-
ruary 12, 1958, and the other is February 5, 1958. How did you come
by these?

Mr. Fishman. This is a daily publication printed in tlie English
language in the Soviet Union which arrives in the United States for
distribution here. It is curious, but at the time that first came out
the story was that this would be a publication devoted to factual in-
formation concerning the Soviet Union but it very rapidly became
another one of the propaganda publications.

I was looking at tlie issue of it, dated February 1. 1 didn't read
too far but in the editoi-ial tliere is this statement :

United States Secretary of State, J. F. Dulles, who attended this session —

which is referring to a meeting on the consolidation of countries —

disregarding the national interests of eastern countries who are members of this
military bloc, demanded that their territories should be made available for es-
tablishing American rocket bases.

This was the publication which was going to report things factually.

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I just want to refer to Page 4 of this
issue of February 12, 1958, and read two of the deliberately false and
malicious pieces of cold war propaganda that I find on page 4:

It is more than four years since the armistice agreement put an end to the
three-year war imposed on the Korean people by the United States rulers.

There you have it, the dirty despicable falsehood. The matter of
history shows that the Korean War was not imposed on Korea by the
United States. We went there to defend the freedom of the Korean
people and it is a matter of history.

One more statement :

The American command and the South Korean authorities are aggravating
the situation in Korea by constantly violating the armistice agreement — •

Another despicable lie and falsehood. And that is the kind of junk
that is coming into our country from this cold war propaganda.

May I ask two or three (questions.

You gave me thirteen of these sealed envelopes mailed from East
Berlin, and these letters are addressed to people in Jamaica Plains,
Northampton, Springfield, Cambridge, East Hampton, Forge Village,
Allston, Framingham, and five of them to the City of l^oston. So you

OOMMtTNTST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2187

Bostoiiians have some of this junk mail coming right to your next door
neighbors, apparently.

Mr. FisHMAN. That is right.

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand on none of this cold war j)ropaganda
from the Soviet Union is there any place of publication given ?

Mr. FisHMAx. In some instances, but it is obscured and difficult to
identify the particular country.

Mr. Doyle. Isn't it carried on the tiy leaf wliere such information
is usually carried?

Mr. FisHMAN. A publication of this type, Soviet Union, which is a
very well recognized Soviet publication, will have it very clearly
stated. Maybe I better take that back. I thought it was right on the
fly leaf, but it is not.

Mr. Doyle. Now, you referred to that as comparable to the Ameri-
can magazine, Life. Is this magazine that you have in color ? It is
extensively illustrated, I see, as you turn the pages.

Mr. FisH:*rAN. There are colored ^photographs right here in the
center page.

Mr. Doyle. What does that sell for in this country if it is for sale?

Mr. IRISHMAN. I don't know. It sells for six shillings in England,
and this being printed in the English language, it is marked for sale
in England. This does have here on the last page, Editorial Offices and
Printed by the Pravda Printing Plant in Moscow, in very small type
w\ay at the bottom of the last page.

Mr. Doyle. Did I understand your associate to say that the per-
centage of increase for the years 1956-1957, of this type of cold war
propaganda that you have exhibited here has been approximately 30
percent ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. Eacli yenv, each of those several
years. It lias gone up almost 30 percent.

Mr. Doyle. Is all of this Soviet cold war propaganda that comes
to any of tlie ports of entry in the United States, sent to the three
control units, New York, Chicago and San Francisco ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. We attempt to get it all sent to the three control
units. The Post Office Department makes an effort to get all of this
material addressed to the States east of the Mississippi to the New
York area, to the States west of the Mississippi to the San Francisco
area, and to the States of Illinois and Wisconsin to the Chicago port.

Of course, it is almost impossible to control it all, and some of it
does get by.

Mr. Doyle. As to the cold war propaganda which you exhibited
here, did you state that never to your knowledge has that type of
propaganda complied with the Foreign Agents Registration Act of
the United States. Well, isn't that an act supposedly agreed to by
Soviet Russia, too ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. Oh, no.

Mr. Doyle. They are not in that agreement?

Mr. FiSHMAN. The Foreign Agents Registration Act applies to all
foreign countries including those in the Soviet Bloc. Among other
things it requires that agents of foreign governments keep the United
States Government posted as to their activities here, letting the De-
partment of Justice know, for example, how much of this material is
imported, how much is sold and the money received through such
sales.

2188 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Doyle. Is that being complied witli to 30iir knowledge ?

Mr. FisiiMAN. It may be in regard to how much or what volume
of business they have done. But unfortunately until the House Un-
American Activities Committee took up this issue, the requirement
for labeling was not clearly defined, that is to say, as to when such
compliance was required. Currently, it is up to the registered agent
to decide which of the material he distributes is political propaganda
and at that point he labels it.

There is another confusion and that is whether at the time of dis-
tribution he intends it to be disseminated among two or more per-
sons. So there are several outs, and for that reason a good deal of
this is never labeled.

Mr. DoYT.E. May I inquire this: It is not clear to me what your
testimony Avas or reference was as to the amount of this cold war
propaganda coming into the United States, percentagewise or quan-
titywise, from satellite countries or Communist-controlled countries
other than the Soviet Union. Does any of it come from those
countries ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. Oh, sure.

Mr. Doyle. What percentage of it, if you can make an estimate?

Mr. FiSHMAN. The volume ebbs and flows, depending on domestic
and foreign issues. As these countries are annexed their publications
increase. For example, all of the Hungarian magazines and news-
papers were cut off completely immediately after the trouble there.
Now, of course, they resume publication, but on a propaganda level.
I would estimate that on an overall basis about 65 percent of all this
material comes directly from the Soviet Union, the rest of it is sup-
posedly from the satellite countries.

However, from the format of the material, the way it is printed,
etc., we have an idea a lot of it is printed in the Soviet Union in the
language of the country it is supposed to come from. We have sepa-
rated liere on the table this material according: to language. Some
of it IS from Germany, some from Czechoslovakia, some from Yugo-
slavia. There is Chinese. There is some from Hungary, Bulgaria,
and, of course, there is a good deal of World Youth material.

Mr. Doyle. In answer to a question from our staff director, one
of you estimated that there were approximately 10,000 pieces a month
for the two months that you checked, coming into the Boston area.

Mr. FiSHMAN. We included in that the New England area actually.

Mr. Doyle. The New England area. Do I understand, therefore,
that is an average number of pieces % That would means 120,000 pieces
a year.

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct.

Mr. Doyle. Into the New England area.

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right.

Mr. Doyle. Of this sort of junk, cold war material.

Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right.

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, that I want, and I am sure
the committee wants to join me in complimenting the foreign
language press on the efforts they made and the enlightenment which
they gave to the foreign born people as related by Mr. Fishman
about the propaganda program. They were very helpful in giving
the foreign born people that infcnuiiation.

I spoke with you before the committee met this morning about this
exchange of "America" for tlie Soviet magazine. You said that much

COMMtnsrilST ACTIVITIEiS in the new E[NGIAND AREiA 2189

of it is being returned from the Soviet Union as nonsalable. Then
I think I heard yon say that "that which is placed on sale is picked
up immediately," Have you any way of telling what percentage of
our booklets going over there from month to month by agreement
with Russia, in return for Russia's magazine coming to this country,
is returned as nonsalable?

Mr. FisiiMAN. That information, I am almost sure, could be made
available to the committee by the USTA. The story as we get it
though is that very little of it is actually placed on the newsstands
in the Soviet Union, but that which is placed on sale is snapped up
almost the day it is put on sale. Yet at the same time we hear that
a good deal of it does come back here as nonsalable.

Mr. Doyle. State, if you know what the fact is, whether or not in
our country we are refusing to allow the Soviet book to go on sale,
which we agreed would be offered for sale here in exchange for their
allowing our book to be sold in Russia, Are we mistreating it that
way?

Mr. FiSHMAN. I doubt that because I have seen it around the
country on newsstands.

Mr. DoYXrE. So have I.

Mr. FisHMAN. In small cities and towns, and most of the States
it is placed on sale.

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Kearney?

Mr. Kearney. I have no questions, Mr. Fishman. I only wish
to thank you again and to say that it is good to see you here. But
1 want to call to the attention of some of our naive Americans the
propaganda that does emanate from these foreign countries, particu-
larly with reference to the Russian magazines. The word "Christ-
mas" is practically outlawed, and the Holy Night before Christmas
is unheard of; but picking up, for instance, this publication from
East Germany, there is no hesitancy at all in speaking of December
24th as Holy Night and also going on to mention subjects of the scenes
that come from the Bible. You never see anything in the Soviet
magazines with reference to the Bible, I am quite sure.

]\Ir. Fishman. No.

Mr. Kearney. So in other words propaganda fits in the particular
area that these magazines come from.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Mcintosh ?

Mr. McIntosh. I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. I join with my colleague, Mr. Doyle, with respect to
his commendation of the foreign language newspapers.

I would recall, Mr. Arens, there are a large number of foreign
language newspapers in our country, especially in the New York area,
that are busily disseminating Communist propaganda. As I recall
the evidence was presented before this committee and the record so
shows.

Mr. Arens. Yes. I am sure the chairman will know that the an-
nual report of this committee makes reference to a number of foreign
language publications in the United States, the editors, publishers,
and writers of which have been identified by subpenaed live witnesses
under oath as members of the Communist conspiracy.

2190 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND ARELA.

Mr. DoTLE. Let us make it clear, Mr. Chairman, you and I do not
commend them,

Mr. Moulder. There is a distinction and we distinguish between
the two.

INIr. DoTLE. I certainly did not intend to.

Mr. Moulder. We certainly do not.

I wish to call attention to provisions of the bill which you referred
to in your testimony, H. R. 9937. One of the provisions provides
for the establishment in the Bureau of Customs of an office of
a controller of foreign propaganda and fixes responsibility for the
control of this foreign political propaganda. Does tliat meet with
your approval ?

Mr. FiSHMAN. We have not prepared a response to the general
provisions of the bill. Until the Treasury does prepare it I would
just as soon withhold my comments. Of course, it will be an ideal
thing to have someone right in Washington to be available to the
committees of Congress and the Senate in connection with this entire
program.

Mr. Moulder. Are there any other questions from the members of
the committee ?

Have you any questions, Mr. Arens ?

Mr. Arens. No. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Moulder. Tlie witnesses are excused. Thank you very much.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, if you please, the next witness who
was scheduled to be here is Mr. Herbert Zimmerman, and his coun-
sel has presented us with a doctor's certificate. Therefore, I respect-
fully suggest that the Chair make an order in the record that Mr.
Zimmerman be temporarily excused subject to call and he be con-
tinued under his subpena.

Mr. Moulder. As requested by counsel and without objection the re-
quest is approved and Mr. Zimmerman is temporarily excused, sub-
ject to call by the committee.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, we have two witnesses we should like
to hear before the noon recess, if you please, principally for the pur-
pose of accommodating their counsel, who is obliged to return to
New York City on some pressing matters.

The first witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mrs. Doro-
thy Friedman.

Would you kindly come forward.

Mr. BouDiN. May I request, Mr. Chairman, that no pictures be
taken in this room ?

Mrs. Friedman. No pictures, Mr. Chairman, please.

Mr. BouDiN. I request that no pictures be taken. May I have a rul-
ing before the pictures are taken ?

Mr. Moulder. There is a ruling tliat no pictures will be taken
during the course of testimony if the witness objects.

Mr. Boudin. The witness objects to having any pictures taken in
the room.

Mrs. Friedman. No j^ictures are to be taken at all.

Mr. Moulder. Will the witness be sworn, please ?

Stand up and be sworn.

Mr, Boudin, You may be sworn. The Chair lias ruled.

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about
to give before tlie Committee of the United States Congress will be

COMMUNUST ACTIVITiES IN TILE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2191

tlie truth, tlie whole triitli, and notliin^ but the truth, so help you
God?

Mrs. Friedman. I do.

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for a clarification.
1 see my friend, the attorney whom we have met on several occasions
in various cities, representino- one of the witnesses here.

Now, I would like to know Avhether or not in order to represent a
witness in the State of Massachusetts one has to be a member or at
least leo:ally allowed to practice law in the State of Massachusetts.
If they do not have to, inasmuch as this is not a court of law, that is
another question. But I would like to know just what the situation is.

Mr. Moulder. As I recall there is a provision clarifying that ques-
tion in the bill, which I mentioned a while ago. As I understand
it, Mr. Arens, of course under the rules the witness is entitled to coun-
sel. Whether or not he is admitted to practice before the Bar of the
State of Massachusetts does not control. Therefore he is entitled to
have counsel regardless.

Mr. BouDiN. Mr. Chairman, would you direct the photographers
not to take pictures, which are continuing to be taken even while this
is going on ?

Mr. Moulder. Yes. As requested by counsel and by the witnesses
we will ask the photographers and those taking pictures to refrain
from taking any pictures of this witness during the course of testi-
mony, as she appears before the committee.

Mr. BouDiN. May I ask one more thing, Mr. Chairman? I under-
stand that over the radio last night conversations between witnesses
and their counsel were recorded, apparently because of the delicate
recording device here.

Mr. JNIcIntosh. Mr. Boudin, if I may interrupt at this point, I
think we clarified that yesterday in anticipation of the question you
are raising today.

Mr. BouDiN. So there is no problem today of any of my conversa-
tions with my client being heard

Mr. McIntosh. Let me finish. We are subjected to this sort of dou-
ble check vei*y often. Yesterday one of the counsel spoke over the
microphone in advising his client. I specifically called his attention
to the fact and he admitted on the record that the option of making a
public broadcast over the microphones here of his advice to his
client was at his option and not at our suggestion, and I think if you
will talk to your witness in private you will have no problem.

We resent the technique that you are using, where yesterday counsel
deliberately for his own purposes, advised his client publicly by pick-
ing up the microphone and giving his advice to her over it, and then
you come in today and raise an inference that we are publicizing
your conferences with your client.

Mr. BouDiN. I understand.

Mr. McIntosh. We are not doing that.

Mr. BouDiN. I wasn't saying the connnittee Avas doing it deliber-
ately. The statement I am nuiking is apparently on the radio

Mr. Moulder. Counsel, the witness has the right to be represented
by counsel for the purpose of advising her and conferring with her
at any time, and under the rules of this committee counsel is not ac-
corded the right to address the committee or to argue with members

2192 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE JSTEW ENGLAND AREA

of the committee. Therefore, in accordance with that rule, proceed
with the interrogation of the witness.

TESTIMONY OF DOROTHY FRIEDMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

LEONARD B. BOUDIN

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself bj^ name, residence, and
occupation.

Mrs. Friedman. My name is Dorothy Friedman. I live in Prov-
idence, Khode Island. I am a housewife.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs. Friedman, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee
on Un-American Activities?

Mrs. Friedman. I am.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel?

Mrs. Friedman. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself on the record.

Mr. Boudin. Leonard B. Boudin, of Rabinowitz and Boudin, 25
Broad Street, New York City, New York.

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived at Providence, Rhode Island ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer on the ground of the commit-
tee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating it,
lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, my rights under the
first amendment and my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. So that the record may be clear, you read the state-
ment you just recited, is that correct?

Mrs. Friediman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. From a piece of paper before you ?

Mrs. Friedman. Yes.

Mr Arens. Is that a typewritten piece of paper?

Mrs. Friedman. It is.

Mr. Arens. And who prepared that for you, if you please ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. Prepared by myself and my counsel.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
now be ordered and directed to answer the question as to how long
she lived in Providence, Rhode Island.

Mr. Moulder. Well, certainly, the witness is directed to answer the
question.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer for the reasons already given.

Mr. INIouEDER, Do you mean to tell us you will not tell us how long
you have resided in Providence?

Mrs. Friedman. I have already given my answer, Mr. Chairman.

]\Ir. Doyle. I request the witness be instructed to answer the ques-
tion as to how long she has resided in Providence, Rhode Island.

Mr. Moulder. Certainly. We cannot understand how you would
refuse to answer that question and in good faith claim the protection
of the Constitution.

Mrs. Friedman. I stand on my previous position, Mr. Chairman.

COMMtJNrST ACTlVITIEiS. IN THE NEW ENGLAND ARElA 2193

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us a word, please, of your educational
background.

Mrs. Friedman. I stand on my previous position as given.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer the question.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.

Mrs. Friedman. I have already given my answer, sir.

Mr. Mouij)er. Does tlie record show she has not given an answer?
She has declined to ansAver — I assume for reasons previously stated
by you ?

Mrs. Friedman. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Arens. As I recall, you said your occupation was presently as a
housewife. Isn't that correct ?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I have given you my answer.

Mr. Arens. I don't believe you quite understand. You said on this
record, did you not, that you were a housewife 'i

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. I have already said so, sir.

Mr. Arens. How long has that status been enduring ?

Mrs. Friedman. 1 refuse to answei" on my previous constitutional
I'ights.

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of the last five years had any sub-
stantial occupation other than tlie <xx'upation of housewife?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I stand on my constitutional privilege, on the
Fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if y(m told this com-
mittee truthfully while you are under oath whether or not you have
had in the course of the last five years a principal occupation other than
the occupation of housewife, you would be supplying information
which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer for the reasons already stated.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer the question. The question is posed
for the purpose of testing the good faith of this witness in invoking
tlie constitutional privileges which she has invoked.

Mr. BouDiN. Would the chairman hear a comment by me?

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.

Mr. BouDiN. May I have a ruling from the chairman ?

Mr. Moulder. You may confer with your witness or your client, but
not address or argue with members of the committee.

Mr. Kearney. You know better than to make a speech liere. You
have been before this committee on numerous occasions.

Mr. BoiTDiN. I am addressing myself to you, Mr. Chairman, and
not to you, Mr. Moulder — Mr. Kearney. Pardon me. Mi-. Moulder.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly respond to the direction given by
the chairman.

Mrs. Friedman. I stand on my position as previously stated, sir.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a school teacher ?

Mrs. Friedman. I stand on my previous answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. I should like, if you please, to cause to be displayed to
you now a thermofax exhibit entitled "Teachers News," June 5, 1948.

2194 CX)MMUNrST ACTIVTTTES m the new EN<3LAND AREIA

This article lists candidates for election to the executive board of the
Teachers Union, including "Dorothea" C. Friedman, P. S. 100 B;
Delegate Assembly. Kindly look at that exhibit, if you please, and
tell us whether or not the information contained in that exhibit, in-
sofar as it relates to yourself, identifying j^ourself as a candidate is
correct.

(Document handed to witness.)

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer for reasons already given.

Mr. Moulder. May the record show that the witness has refused to
examine the document as requested by counsel.

Mr. BouDiN. If you like the witness will examine it.

Mr. Moulder. Examine the document.

Mr, BouDiN. ]May I request the photographers

Mrs. FriedmxVN. The photographers are getting me very nervous,
Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moulder. You have not looked at it. How can you respond 'i

Mr. BouDiN. I thought the pictures were not to be taken, accord-
ing to your own ruling.

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, may I again refer to Mr. Boudin?

He has been before this committee many times. He knows what
the rules of the committee are and he is simply seeking this opportu-
nity to make speeches. He knows what his job is here and what his
duties are.

Mrs. Friedman. Mr. Chairman, please, I am very nervous when the
pictures are taken. Please, I ask that no pictures be taken.

Mr. Kearney. If you would answer the question you would not be
so nervous.

Mr. Moulder. I wish to ask the witness now : You have examined
the document referred to by counsel, have you not?

Mrs. Friedman. I have, sir.

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer the question which I re-
call as whether or not you are the same person referred to in that
document.

Is that right, Mr. Arens ?

Mr. Arens. If you please, sir, that is correct.

Mrs. Friedman. I will decline, sir, for reasons previously given.

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the
document be appropriately marked and incorporated by reference in
the record.

Mr. Moulder. The document will be so marked.

(Document marked "Friedman Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell the committee whether or not you presently
hold a teacher's certificate.

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer on the ground of the com-
mittee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating
it, lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, my rights under the
first amendment and my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. So tlie issue may l)e concise and clear, without equivoca-
tion, may I explain to you the pertinency of that particular question?

COMMUTSTTST ACTIVITIES. IN THiE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2195

You, Ma'am, have been identified under oath by a live credible
witness in this proceeding as a person known to have been in the re-
cent past a member of the Connnunist Party.

This committee has under consideration a number of legislative
proposals and a numlx^r of bills, some of which would undertake to
cope with the problem of Communists in public institutions.

If you do presently hold a teacher's certificate that bit of informa-
tion added to other information of like character would enable this
committee to more adequately appraise the legislative proposals which
are before it, and suggest legislation to the House of Representatives
and the United States Congress to undertake to plug the loopholes
in existing law or to devise new legislation to protect this Nation
against the operations of an international conspiracy which is today
threatening to engulf the world.

With that explanation, would you kindly answer the question ?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer on the grounds of reasons al-
ready stated.

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not
she presently holds a teacher's certificate.

Mr. Moulder. Yes, the witness is directed to answer the question.

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I stand under my rights under the first and
fifth amendments.

Mr. Moulder. And may I add to that direction by saying that
we are not directing you to answer the question in a spirit of coercion
or threat, but in order to advise and inform you of the possible
dangers of being in contempt of the United States Congress.

You thoroughly understand that, don't you ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mr. Moulder. I say, you do understand that?

Mrs. Friedman. Mr. Chairman, I fully understand my rights under
the Constitution, and I want to call to your attention that you are
still permitting cameras to go after you have already said they would
not.

Mr. Arens. I should like to recite to you that yesterday before this
committee a man testified imder oath that while he was an undercover
agent in the Communist Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation, he knew you as a Communist, he knew you, indeed,
as a member of the Section Committee of the Communist operation in
Providence, Rhode Island. That is a very serious allegation to make
against a person. We w^ant now to give you an opportunity while
you are under oath to deny that assertion. Do you care to avail your-
self of that privilege ?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer on the grounds of my rights
under the first amendment and my constitutional privilege under
the fifth amendment, sir.

Mr. Arens. Was Armando Penha, a witness yesterday, t«lling the
truth, or was he in error when he identified you as a person who to
his certain knowleclge was one of the leading Communists in the
Providence, Rhode Island, area ?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer on the ground of the com-
mittee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating
it, lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, my rights under the

2196 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA

first amendment and my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever taken a trip to Guatemala ?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I stand by my previous answer.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend if you told this committee
truthfully whether or not you have ever taken a trip to Guaternala
you would be supplying information which might be used against
you in a criminal proceeding?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer on the grounds of the
committee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creat-
ing it

Mr. Kearney. Is it necessary to read that same speech every time
you answer?

Mrs. Friedman. lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose,

my rights under the first amendment and my constitutional privilege
under the fifth amendment.

Mr, Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer the last principal question and the
purpose of the question is to test the good faith of this witness in the
invocation of the constitutional privilege.

Mr. Moulder. Yes. As requested by counsel, the witness is ordered
and directed to answer the question, and again I wish to emphasize
the possible risk you may be taking in refusing to answer, the risk
that you are taking in being guilty of contempt of the United States
Congress.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer for reasons previously
given.

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of tlie last several years been
a peace partisan ?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. A proponent of peace?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer for reasons previously stated,

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us, if you please, some of the deeds that
you have performed for the uplift of the connuunity in the Providence,
Kliode Island, area in certain groups and organizations? And I
speak now not about the Connnunist groups or organizations.

Mrs. Friedman. I have already given ni}' answer, sir.

Mr. Arens. Then, may I explain to you, the pertinency of this
l)articular question ?

Over the course of the last many months this committee has held
numerous hearings in various areas of our Nation, in which we have
received an abundance of testimony to the effect that one of the pres-
ent tactics of the Connnunist conspiracy is to have hard-core cell
members of the conspiracy penetrate non-Communist groups to un-
dertake to build what they call a bridge, to undertake to reduplicate
the so-called united front tactic. It is our information that you as a
hard-core member of the Communist conspiracy have in the course
of the last several years, been in the process of penetrating non-Com-
inunist organizations for the puri)ose of undertaking to poison and
influence those organizations against the Nation under whose flag
you receive protection.

Now would you kindly answer the question.

COMMXnsriST activities in the ISTEW ENGLAND AREA 2197

Mrs. Fkiedmax. Sir, I decline to answer for the reasons already
given.

Mr. Moulder. And the witness is again directed to answer the
qnestion.

Mrs. Friedman. 1 decline to answer on the gronnds of the commit-
tee's lack of jnrisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating it,
the lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, my rights under the
first amendment, and my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Kearney. Are you a citizen of the United States ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel. )

Mr. Kearney. Are you a citizen of the United States ?

Mrs. Friedman. Mr. Chairman, the photographers are still taking-
pictures here.

Mr. I^arney. I don't see anyone taking pictures.

Mr. BouDiN. Oh, yes ; it is quite obvious. You are the only man
w^lio doesn't see it.

Mr. Kearney. Are you a citizen of the United States ?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer that question.

Mr. Kearney. You decline to answer the question as to whether
you are a citizen of the United States ?

Mr. Doyle. I move, Mr. Chairman, she be instructed to answer that
question.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question.

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer because that is not the
business of this committee.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, on the basis of the reason which was
just now propounded by the witness, I respectfully request that the
record reflect an order and direction of the chairman to the witness
to answer the question.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered and directed to answer the
question.

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the commit-
tee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating it,
lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, my rights under the
first amendment, and my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Doyle. In other words, Mr. Chairman, the committee is not
entitled, in the judgment of this witness and her counsel, to know
whether or not persons identified to us as active and hard-core Com-
munists are citizens of tJie United States. That is the issue. It is
]"idiculous.

Mr. Moulder. Are tliere any other questions, Mr. Arens?

Mr. Arens. Yes. We have a few more questions, if you please,
Mr. Chairman.

There is pending before the United States Congress, and more
specifically before this Committee on Un-American Activities, a
number of legislative provisions, pertaining to the security of the
United States. Among those are provisions which undertake to
i-edefine the term "organize," as used in the Smith Act. The purpose
of the amendment is to overcome the effect of certain decisions which
have construed the term "organize" to mean only the original forma-
tion of a group.

2198 COMMUNIST ACnVITTES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA

Now, for tlie purpose of developing information whicli miojht be
used by tliis committee in appraisal of that particular provision, do
you presently have information respecting establishment of a group,
organization, or society by a person or persons known by you to be a
Communist ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mi-s. Friedman. I decline to answer on the grounds of the com-
mittee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating it,
lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, and my rights under the
first amendment, and my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment,

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of an organization which is
dedicated to the destruction of the Constitution of the United States ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer. This is not the function
of this committee.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered and directed to answer the
question.

Mr. BouDiN. Excuse me a second, sir.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer on the grounds of the com-
mittee's lack of jurisdiction, the vagueness of the resolution creating it,
lack of pertinency to any legislative purpose, my rights under the first
amendment, and my constitutional privilege under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Arens. Are you now, this moment, this instant, a member of
the Communist conspiracy?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I would decline to answer for reasons previ-
ously given.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Kearney. If you were not a member of the Communist Party
at the present time would you so state?

Mrs. Friedman. This is not a committee that has jurisdiction to
make such an inquiry.

Mr. Kearney. Please don't tell us what this is. We happen to
know. Madam.

Mrs. Friedman. Well, the Supreme Court has said differently in the
Watkins case, sir.

Mr. Kearney. According to your speech there I guess you have
everything down.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any questions, Mr. Doyle?

Mr. RouDiN. Are you all through, sir, or do you want the photogi'a-
phers to take pictures while the hearing is going on?

Mr. Moulder. The photograpers will comply.

Mr. BouDiN. Why can't we have obedience of your order in this
respect ?

Mr. Doyle. I want to ask a few questions of the witness, please.

Were you in the courtroom yesterday, Mrs. Friedman ?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer the question.

Mr. D0YI.E. Let us see. This is a Federal courtroom and a Federal
building and yesterday was a public session, and all the seats were
occupied yesterday, the same as they are today, the ])ublic press was

OOMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2199

here. There was nothing secret about the hearings. They were all
open. And you decline to answer whether or not you were here.

Well, if you had been here, you would have heard Mr. Penha tes-
tify under oath that you were personally known to him as a hard-core
Communist, in Providence, Rhode Island.

Are you reading that statement now ?

Mrs. Friedman. No, sir.

Mr. Doyle. I would like to have you listen to my question, if you
please.

Mrs. Friedman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. If you will pay attention to the question instead of
paying attention to the notes you read eveiy time, I would appre-
ciate it.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mr. Doyle. Now, counsel, will you let me ask the question ?

Mr. BouDiN. Do you mind my advising my client for a moment ?

Mr. Kearney. Why don't you wait until the question is asked ?

Mr. Doyle. I will stop asking the question if you want to interrupt
and advise your client.

Mr. BouDiN. Let me advise my client.

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead and advise your client and then let me have
a minute of her time.

Mr. BouDiN. Very well, I will.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mr. BouDiN. All right, sir.

Mr. Doyle. Did you hear Mr. Penha, the former FBI agent, yes-
terday, testify under oath here in the room that you were a hard-core
Communist and known to him personally as such?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I don't think this adds to anything that has
already been'said.

Mr. Doyle. Will you answer my question, please ?

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer the question on the grounds
previously stated, sir.

Mr. Doyle. He testified under oath not only were you personally-
known to him to be a hard-core Communist of Providence, Rhode
Island, but you were a member of the Section Committee of the Com-
munist Partj there and that your specialty as a hard-core Commu-
nist of Providence, Rhode Island, was known to him to be to infiltrate
church groups and other groups in the community and to try to sell
them on the Communist line, unaware that you were a Communist.
When he testified to that, was he telling the truth or not ?

Mrs. Friedman. Sir, I decline to answer for reasons previously
given.

Mr. Doyle. Our director has asked you whether or not you held a
teacher's certificate. I want to ask you more specifically whether
or not you hold a teacher's certificate in the public schools in Rhode
Island.

Mrs. Friedman. I decline to answer this question, sir.

Mr. Doyle. I will ask you whether or not ,you hold a teacher's
certificate in the public schools of the State of Massachusetts.

Mrs. Friedman. The same answer, sir.

Mr. Doyle. I ask you whetlier or not you hold a public school
teacher's certificate in any State of the United States ?

24777— 58— pt. 2 3

2200 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES m THE N1EW EN<3LAND AREiA

Mrs. Friedman. I have nothing to say, sir. I have already given
you mj' answer.

Mr. Doyle. In other words, your answer is the same as you read
from that memorandum, each time, is that correct?

Mrs. Friedman. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Kearney ?

Mr. Kearney. I don't intend to ask tlie witness any questions, Mr.
Chairman. But I will say this :

That of all tlie contemptuous, arrogant witnesses I have ever seen
in my years on this committee, you win the cake.

Mr. BouDiN. That is a highly improper statement for a member
of the committee to make and he knows it.

Mr. Kearney. Don't make any statement to me. I don't like you
personally.

Mr. BouDiN. I am talking to the Chairman. I want Mr. Kearney
told he has to keep his position and not outshout my client.

Mr. Kearney. And I can outshout you.

Mr. BouDiN. I am not sliouting, and you are the one that shouts,
and I want the record to sliow I am not shouting. It is tj'pical of
the behavior on the part of Mr. Kearney.

Mr. IvEARNEY. Just a minute. I am not finished.

Mr. BouDiN. Please finish.

Mr. Kearney. I want to tell this witness that if there is any method
legally by which she can be cited for contempt of the Congress of
the United States I intend to do all in my power to see that it is done.

Mr. BoTJDiN. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Kearney made the statement
about other witnesses and has never carried it out. It is a highly
improper statement to make, as he knows.

Mr. Kearney. The type of witnesses you represents — —

Mr. BoTJDiN. I am not discussing that. You leave my clients alone
and stick to your business.

Mr. Kearney. You stick to yours.

Mr. BouDiN. I am. That is wliy I am here.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any questions, Mr. Mcintosh?

Mr. McIntosh. I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Cliairman, is Mrs.
Muriel Gravelle McAvoy.

Kindly come forward, Mrs. McAvoy, and remain standing while
the chairman administers the oath to you.

Mr. Boudin. Mr. Chairman, may I make the same request with
respect to pictures ?

Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand?

Mr. BouDiN. Mr. Chairman, I ask again that the witness not have
her picture taken.

May we have a ruling ?

Mr. Moulder. The witness will be sworn.

Mr. Boudin. The witness will not be sworn while the pictures are
being taken.

Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn ?

Mr. BouDiN. Just a moment. The witness wishes that pictures not
be taken while she is sworn. This is a quasi-judicial proceeding and
she has that right.

COMMTHSTIST activities in the new ENGLAND AREA 2201

Please direct the photographers not to take pictures.

Mr. Moulder. The photographers are directed not to take
pictures

Mr. BouDiN. Please put the camera down.

Mr. Moulder. while the witness is sworn.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
before this committee of the United States Congress will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mrs. McAvoY. I do.

Mr. Moulder. I have asked the photographers time after time to
desist and refrain from taking photographs of the witnesses while
the witnesses testify. I ho])e you will cooperate and comply with
that ruling and that request.

Proceed, Mr. Arens.

TESTIMONY OF MURIEL GRAVELLE McAVOY, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, LEONARD B. BOUDIN

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.

Mrs. McAvoY. Do I speak into this? Am I supposed to speak in
this?

Mr. Arens. If you can and wish, yes.

Mrs. McAvOY. My name is Muriel Gravelle McAvoy

Mr. Moulder. I believe if you pull that a little closer to you it
might be clearer.

Mrs. McAvoY. My name is Muriel Gravelle McAvoy. I live at 355
West 85th Street, New York City, housewife.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs. McAvoy, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?

Mrs. McAvoy. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mrs. McAvoy. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

Mr. BouDiN. Leonard B. Boudin, New York City.

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived at your present address?

Mrs. McAvoy. I decline to answer on the ground of the committee's
lack of authority and jurisdiction, the vagueness of its enabling reso-
lution and purpose, if any, the lack of pertinency of the question to
any legitimate legislative purpose, and my rights under the first
amendment.

Mr. Arens. You are reading from a prepared statement, is that
correct ?

Mrs. McAvoY. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Who prepared that statement, please ?

Mrs. McAvoy. My counsel and I.

Mr. Kearney. Is this a copy of the statement the previous witness
read?

Mrs. McAvoY. No.

Mr. Kearney. Some change in the wording?

Mr. Doyle. A little bit.

Mrs. McAvoy. I doivt remember what she said.

Mr. Arens. Have you lived in the State of New Hampshire?

2202 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mrs. McAvoY. I rest upon the answer I have already given, sir.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now
be ordered and directed to answer the question whether or not she
has lived in the State of NeAv Hampshire.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so ordered and directed to answer
the question propounded by counsel.

Mrs. McAvoy. I decline to answer for reasons I already stated,
sir.

Mr. Arens. What occupation have you had in the course of the
last 5 years other than your occupation as a housewife?

Mrs, McAvoY. I stand on the statement I have already given.

Mr. Arens. Have you been a peace partisan, a proponent of peace
in the last few years ?

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for tlie reasons I have already
given.

Mr. Arens. You were one of the principal sponsors of the New
England Conference for Peace, were you not ?

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for the reasons I already stated.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you were one of the sponsors of the National Women's
Appeal for the Rights of Foreign Born Americans.

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer on the grounds of lack of author-
ity and jurisdiction, the vagueness of its enabling resolution and pur-
pose, if any, the lack of pertinency of the question to any legitimate
purpose, and my rights under the first amendment.

Mr. Arens. I should like, if you please, to lay before you a photo-
static reproduction of a document entitled, "New England Con-
ference for Peace." It is a leaflet Avitli referc nee to a conference held
here in Boston at the Hotel Bradford and on this leaflet we observe
in two places, "Miss Muriel Gravelle, Executive Secretary, and Miss
Muriel Grace Gravelle, Concord, New Hampshire.

Kindly examine the document and see if you could not assist the
House Committee on Un-American Activities by stating whether or
not you are the person alluded to in the document which I have just
displayed to you.

(Document handed to the witness.)

Mrs. MoAvoY. I decline to answer on the first

Mr. Kearney. Just a minute, Mr. Chairman. The witness has not
had an opportunity to examine that document. The attorney is doing
the examining of the document and the witness is declining to answer.
Look at the document, will you please ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for the reason previously stated.

(Document marked "McAvoy Exhibition No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)

Mr, Kearney. I thought that would be your statement.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell the committee your maiden name.

Mrs. McAvoY, I already did — Muriel (jravelle.

Mr. Arens. Thank you. Were you Executive Director of the
Progressive Party of New Hampshire ?

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for the reasons I already stated.

Mr. Arens. I should like to display to you, if you please, a photo-
static copy of a letter directed to the Secretary of State, State House,
Concord, New Hampshire, signed by Muriel G. Gravelle, Executive

COMMTNI&T ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2203

Director, Progressive l*arty of New Hampshire, dated September
21, 1948, with an enclosure, which was sent to the Secretary of State
of the State of New Hampshire.

Kindly examine those documents and see if you will be good enough
to verify the authenticit}' of your signature and thereby the validity
of the document itself.

(Document handed to the witness.)

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for the reasons already stated.

(Document marked "McAvoy Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com-
mittee files.)

Mr. Arens. May I suggest the possibility you could accommodate
the Committee on Un-American Activities in its pursuit of facts if
you would now care to sign your name to a piece of paper and submit
it to the committee. Would you care to do that for the purpose of
comparison of signatures ?

Mrs. McAvoY. 1 decline for reasons I have already stated. You
have no authority to ask me.

Mr. Arens. Are you now this minute a member of the Communist
conspiracy ?

Mrs. McAvOY. I decline to answer for the reasons I already stated.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you have likewise in the recent past been secretary of the
Emergency Civil Liberties Committee, which was created by the
Communist conspiracy for the chief purpose of undertaking to dis-
credit the House Committee on Un-American Activities, the Federal
Bureau of Investigation and its Director, J. Edgar Hoover.

If that is not true, would you please deny it while you are under
oath.

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for the reasons I have already
given.

Mr. Arens. That is your current employment, is it not, secretary
of the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee, created by the Com-
munist conspiracy for the purposes of undertaking to create grass-
root sentiments against the Committee on Un-American Activities
and the Federal Bureau, of Investigation and its Director, J. Edgar
Hoover.

If that is not true, kindly deny it wliile you are presently under
oath.

Mrs. McAvoY. I decline to answer for the reasons I have already
given.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con-
clude the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Moueder. Mr. Doyle.

Mr. Doyle. Of course, as the chairman knows, tlie well-known pur-
pose of such committees as this young lady is executive secretary of
as named by our director, and other Communist fronts, is to collect
money to raise their living and other costs from tlie imsuspecting
public.

I have no other questions.

Mr. Moulder. General Kearney.

Mr. Kearney. No, I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Mcintosh.

Mr. McIntosii. I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

2204 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 30.

(Whereupon, at 12 : 02 p. m. the connnittee recessed to reconvene
at 1 : 30 p. m. the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 19, 1958

(Committee members present: Repi-esentatives Kearney and Mc-
intosh.)

Mr. lO.ARNEY (presiding). The committee will be in order.

For the purpose of tlie record, let me advise that Congressman
Moulder, the chairman, and Congressman Doyle will be in any min-
ute (appearance as noted), but I would suggest that inasmuch as
there is a quorum present, Mr. Counsel, we proceed with tlie Attorney
General from New Hampshire, I believe.

Mr. Arens. If you please, ]\Ir. Chairman, the next witness we
should like to hear is the Honorable Louis C. Wyman, Attorney
General of the State of New Hampshire.

Mr. Kearney. General Wyman, do you swear that the testimony
you are about to give will be the truth, tlie whole trutli, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Wyman. I do.

Mr. Kearney. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF LOUIS C. WYMAN

Mr. Arens. General Wyman, will you kindly, for the purpose of
the record, identify yourself by name, residence, and, if you please,
your affiliation with organizations which are dedicated to figliting the
Communist conspiracy in the United States?

Mr. Wyman. Mr. Chairman, my name is Louis C. Wyman, Attorney
General of the State of New Hampshire. I have held that position
since 1953.

I am a former president of the National Association of Attorneys
General, a member of the Internal Security Committee of that national
association, a member of the Citizens' Advisory Committee to the Com-
mission on Government Security, the Loyd Wright committee, a
member of the American Bar Association's Special Committee on Com-
munist Tactics, Strategy, and Objectives, and I have been since 1953 a
delegated committee of one for the General Court of New Hampshire,
inquiring for them in a factfinding investigation seeking to determine
whether there is any subversion or subversive organizations in our
State.

Mr. Arens. General, in the course of the recent past have you had
occasion to argue in the Supreme Court of tlie United States certain
of the cases involving issues pertaining to the Communist conspiracy?

Mr. Wyman. I have, Mr. Arens. I argued the Steve Nelson case
before the United States Supreme Court for the States, in the original
hearing for 27 States, and at the time of the petition for rehearing
for 41 out of the 48 States.

I also was a party and argued tlie case of Sioeezy v. The State of
New HampHMre^ which was handed down last June 17.

Mr. Arens. General, as you know, because of your particular back-
ground and experience and because of your activity within these vari-
ous organizations dedicated to the resistance of the Communist con-

CX)MMTJ]SriST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2205

spiracy in the United States, our committee sent to you a copy of
H. R. 9937, known as the Onniibus Security Bill, which is pending
before our committee, for the purpose of soliciting from you your
studied judgment on each of several of its proposed provisions.

I should like, if I may, to interrogate you with reference to those
particular provisions of the bill which are in areas in which you, on the
basis of your background and experience, have a particular or peculiar
knowledge.

Is that agreeable with you, sir ?

Mr. Wyman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. I would, if you please, sir, invite your attention, first
of all, to the issue which tlie bill undertakes to cope with, this bill,
along with other bills pending in the Congress, namely, the situation
on the activities of State anti -Communist organizations and of anti-
Communist sedition acts within the State.

Would you please, in your own way, present the issue and make
such observations with reference to this issue, pointing, if you please,
sir, to the bill or other bills that undertake to cope with this problem ?

(At this point Representatives Moulder and Doyle entered the
hearing room.)

Mr. Wyman. Well, in the first place, I do not have the bill before
me. But I am familiar, in general, with its pi'ovisions.

Tlie bill contains in omnibus form a great many suggestions for
improving the internal security of the country both with respect to
passports, immigration, and other matters with which I have not been
immediately concerned.

However, it does deal with several of the decisions of the United
States Supreme Court in recent months, which have caused so much
unnecessary confusion in tJie fiekl of internal security, and I perhaps
might be able to make some contribution to the committee in that
regard.

I would like to say, first, that the National Association of Attorneys
General has endorsed by resolution, supported by more than three-
quarters of its membership, the bill which is presently pending in the
Senate numbered S. 654, which is incorporated, in part, in this mea-
sure by Congressman Walter, seeking to undo the Steve Nelson de-
cision.

In that regard, I also call the committee's attention to the fact that
the American Bar Association's Special Committee has also endorsed
this measure.

Mr. Arens. General, may I interrupt you to ask you, if you would,
for the purpose of this record and for the enlightenment of those who
may not be familiar with the Nelson case, to give on this record the
essence of the Nelson case and the issues presented there.

Mr. Wyman. Yes, sir. In the case of Pennsylvania v. Steve Nehon^
it was held that Congress impliedly intended to supersede all state
anti-sedition laws when it enacted the Smith Act in 1940. I don't
believe that the record supports any such conclusion. Yet at this
point perhaps it is better for me to make it veiy clear that nothing I
say here should be construed as being disrespectful of the institution
of the United States Supreme Court, nor critical of any of the indi-
vidual justices, nor of their integrity or sincerity. I think it is a
lawyer's duty to speak out against decisions of any court which he

2206 OOMMUNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

thinks are contraiy to the best interests of the country, and I am
convinced that this decision is in derogation to state's rights and has
without doubt placed the states at the greatest disadvantage under the
tenth amendment, that it is almost conceivable to find in this time,
simply because, if I can explain it in common language, this decision
has said, in effect, if the Federal Government wishes to take away from
the states the right to protect themselves against those within state
borders who conspire to overthrow or seek to overthrow the Govern-
ment of the State or the Nation, that it can do so by legislative fiat. I
don't believe that is so. I think the Constitution when it said that the
powers not granted to the Federal Government are reserved to the
states and to the people thereof, and the tenth amendment very clearly
reserved and protected to the states just this kind of basic power. It
is unfortunate that the construction should have been made.

Now, as far as the facts of the Steve Nelson case are concerned,
they are very simple. Steve Nelson was prosecuted by the Depart-
m.ent of Justice and convicted of violation of the Smith Act and again
prosecuted and convicted in the state court for violating the state
sedition law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

He appealed, and the question before the United States Supreme
Court involved the relationship between the Smith Act and the sedi-
tion law of Penns3dvania.

The court held in spite of the fact that the Department of Justice
had filed a brief and argued in the case that tlie cooperative conduct
of investigations and prosecutions under state sedition statutes and
the Federal Smith Act were not in conflict and the Department of
Justice wanted to have the state sedition laws continued — the
court held that there was a risk of conflict that was too great to avoid;
that the paramount interest in cases of this kind was in the Federal
Government ; and that the Congress had occupied the field, and that all
in spite of the fact that Congressman Howard Smith when on the
floor of the House and asked a question about this legislation at the
time it was before the Congress, he was asked what effect it had on
state laws and he said, "This has nothing to do with state laws."

Mr. Arens. General, may we solicit from you now your studied
judgment as to the wisdom of a policy, aside from the question of
the Nelson case, the wisdom of a policy of states participating in
this field of combatting subversion by state legislation and state
committees? What is your judgment as to the wisdom of that?

Mr. Wyman. It is difficult to see how there can be any attempt to
overthrow the Government of the United States of America, or a
conspiracy to do that at some future time in this country, unless it
takes place within the confines of a state and subject to the sovereign
independent jurisdiction of that state; unless it is in a Federal en-
clave or in an area of peculiarly separate Federal jurisdiction, of
which there are very few in this counti-y, it is going to be in a state.

To say that you can overthrow the Federal Government and not
involve the security and safety of the states to me is a play upon
words, it is contrary to common sense. With all subversive activity
in this country girded within a state, perhaps with the exclusion of
the District of Columbia, then I think if there are Communists in
■I state actively working and cons])iring to overthrow the Government
of the United States by force and violence, you have the most imme-

COMAIUNIIST ACmVTTlES EN THE NEW EN^GLAND AREA 2207

diate concern of each state legislature and executive authority in that
particular activity.

The Communists know, and when I say Communists, of course all
of this legislation is directed towards subversion, and it may or may
not be just Communists; there might be Fascists around, there might
be the essence of the start of the same sort of thing in America that we
found in history recorded in Germany. You can't tell. Wherever
there is subversion I thinlc that cooperation between the Federal Gov-
ernment and state authorities is indispensable. Nothing is better
known to the subversives than that a program of effective cooperation
between state investigating agencies and the Federal agencies will
result in a full disclosure of subversive activities. That is because, in
part, the state investigative agencies, as well as your committee, have
the subpena power. The FBI does not have the subpena power. The
state agencies may or may not operate under a state immunity act.
Since the Ullmann case it is possible now to grant Federal immunity
which is complete, both as regards state prosecution and prosecution
by the Federal Government.

I, therefore, think tliat the partnership between the states and the
Federal committees, all working in liaison together and in cooperation
with the FBI, is a very important thing and should be preserved and
not struck down.

Mr. Kearney. General, would yovi yield at that point ?

Mr. Wtman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kearney. If I am correct in this expression, on the part of
the Supreme Court of the United States, and I along with you do not
wish to speak in any way derogatory towards the court, but we still
have our opinions. If their decision stands, in other words, in order
to perfect a crime in violation of the Smith Act it would have to be
brought about, we will say, for instance, in areas like the District of
Columbia — which is not a state. In other words, it couldn't be
brought about in any state of the union.

Mr. Wyman. No, sir. That isn't, I don't believe, so. And I would
like to say why.

Mr. I^ARNEY. Well, straighten me out on that.

Mr. Wyman. It is the Federal prosecution. It is up to the Federal
authorities to move and prosecute wherever the violation of Federal
law takes place. One of the things I believe the states object to is that
suppose the Federals do not see fit to prosecute, suppose they don't see
fit to investigate. Should the state necessarily be helpless in that
situation ?

It doesn't have to be just in the District of ^Columbia. The sub-
version can take place anywhere and the Federal authorities can
prosecute.

Mr. Kearney. In other words, then, the Attorneys General of the
several states could step in in case of the Federal

Mr. Wyman. No, sir, not as the law stands now.

Mr. Kearney. No, not as it stands now but as it should stand now,
let's put it that way.

Mr. Wyman. That is right.

Mr. Kearney. In other words, either the Federal District Attorney
or the state's District Attorney should have the right to prosecute
under the Smith Act.

2208 OOMMUNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Wyman. I think, Mr. Kearney, that is right, except I think it
has been made quite a fetish that there is going to be a race to the
courthouse door to see who coukl prosecute quicker and get all the
headlines. I don't think that is so. I don't think any enlightened
Federal or state officials are going to run to the courthouse door in
order to take a stand for the sake of publicity.

Mr. IvEARNEY. Thank you.

Mr. Arens. General, so that the record will be clear on this, the
Smith Act of 1940, does it presume in and of itself to empower the
state to prosecute for sedition ?

Mr. Wyman. I believe it did in its original provisions.

Mr. Arens. Does it as it is presently written ?

Mr. Wyman. No. It has been construed not to so empower the
states.

Mr. Arens. One provision of H. R. 9937, in effect, permits enforce-
ment in a state court of a state statute with regard to subversion.

Mr. Wyman. Yes, to prosecute for a violation of their own statutes,
Mr. Arens, not for violation of the Smith Act. That is exclusively
Federal.

Some states, I might point out, do not have any anti-sedition state
laws. But I believe 42 out of 48 have them in one form or another.

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your background and experience, in
your judgment, w^ould it be a salutary provision if they all were so
amended, pursuant to the provision of H. R. 9937 on this issue?

Mr. Wyman. It would be very salutary, and at this point I think
that it should be said and recognized that this committee is certainly
due a great deal of credit for having worked in this direction repeat-
edly for quite some period of time.

I think that S. 654, being one separate measure, should be treated
individually and not in an omnibus bill. I think this for the reason
that you find varying elements of opposition when you get varying
subjects included in an omnibus bill.

Mr. Arens. General, may we invite your attention to another area
in which we have solicited your studied judgment, namely, the bill
and other legislation pending in the House Committee on Un-Ameri-
can Activities which undertakes to cope with the problem of Com-
munist lawyers, namely, tliose wlio are in the Connnunist conspiracy,
part and parcel of an organization or conspiracy, designed to over-
throw the Government of the United States by force and violence
and to destroy the Constitution, who themselves are the beneficiaries
of a license which they procured after having taken an oath to defend
the Constitution.

Do you care to comment upon that issue and to make suggestions
to the committee on this public record with reference to that issue?

Mr. Wyman. Yes. Of course, it is important, I think, to distin-
guish something immediately in response to such a question, which
is that lawyers always are under the duty, and the Bar itself has the
obligation, to represent and defend all persons charged with crime
or other difficulties in this country, whether they are Communists or
affiliated with any other kind of "ism." But the lawyer himself who
refuses to tell his Bar Association or his Supreme Court whether he
is or ever was a member of the Communist Party, in my opinion, stands
forfeit of his fiduciary obligation to his court.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES' IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2209

We are officers of the court; and if a lawj^er can be of good moral
character and still be a Communist, I might just as well take my hat
and go home because that is contrary to all my learning about com-
munism and membersliip in the Bar and support of the American
Constitution which is the duty and oath of every lawyer.

Mr. Arens. Can you tell this committee in a word just what the
American Bar Association committee has done to undertake to cope
witli this ])roblem — the committee of which you are a member ?

Mr. Wyman. The committee has had under study for some period of
time the Sheiner case in Florida, with which I am sure you, Mr.
Chairman, and all of the members of this connnittee are quite fa-
miliar. We have had a number of cases involving similar activities
of various Bar Associations and have repeatedly reported to the House
of Delegates of the American Bar Association the recommendation
of the committee that State Bar i\.ssociations take steps to suspend or
disbar attorneys who are members of the Communist Party or who
take and plead their privilege against self-incrimination in an inquiry
in respect of that membership. The reason for that is almost self-
explanatory.

We had a case in New Hampshire of one Abraham Welanko, who
was served with a subpena to come in and testify concerning whether
he was at the time of his application and acceptance in the New Hamp-
shire Bar a member of the Conmumist Party. He did not even come
in and answer the subpena, and he was suspended indefinitely by the
high court there.

I think that the duty of every citizen, almost without regard to
whetlier they are a lawyer or not, is that his life must be an open book
in matters of loyalty and security, subject always to his right to take
the fifth amendment, but not the first amendment, if it is a pertinent,
courteously asked question. But when you get onto lawyers, then
there is a duty that goes quite a bit beyond that, because lawyers are
trained and sworn specifically not only to support the Constitution
but to be representatives of the judicial system which the Communists
certainly are out to destroy.

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand, then, that you place the duty of the
member of the Bar as an officer of the court higher than his duty
as an American citizen if he were not a lawyer?

Mr. Wyman. I do. He holds a license from that court to go out
and make money by representing people before courts. He certainly
has a higher duty, certainly.

Mr. Doyle. I think the distinguished Attorney General surely
knows that every member of this committee sitting here today is a
member of the Bar in their respective states.

Mr. Wyman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. And I think the Bar of the Supreme Court of the
United States, too.

But the Communist Party is not an outlawed group or entity in the
United States of America, is it ?

Mr. Wyiman. Unfortunately the United States Supreme Court sent
the Subversive Activities Control Boai'd hearing back to the Sub-
versive Activities Control Board without ruling on the constitution-
ality of the Internal Security Act; yes, sir,

Mr. Doyle. Yes. We are familiar with that. If it isn't outlawed
yet — and I ask the question in this form to get your helpful answer,

2210 ooMMinsriiST activities in the new enoland ariea

your opinion on tlie record— if it is not an outlawed entity yet, why is
it the duty of a member of the Bar to divulge the facts that you relate
to the court ?

Mr. Wyman. Because whether or not it has been outlawed in the
sense of being required to register as the agent of an enemy power,
which is the contemplation of the order of the Subversive Activities
Control Board and the provisions of the Internal Security Act, one
cannot read the record, JSIr. Doyle, of the public activities of the
Communist Party in the world in relation to the United States of
America over the last 12 years without knowing that it is the mortal
enemy of the United States; and any attorney who takes the fifth
amendment, if he takes it in trutli and doesn't commit perjury at the
time, is by that answer stating that there is, if he answers truth-
fully, the possibility of a link which might lead to his prosecution
for violation of the security laws of the country. In my opinion,
such conduct is incompatible witli the duties of attornej^s, both to
their court and to the public, and incompatible with the public re-
spect for the office of a lawyer which is indispensable if we are to still
consider that lawyers are of some use.

Mr. Doyle. May I inquire a bit further, then? I know you are
familiar with our Public Law 601 under which this committee func-
tions. Part of the assignment by the United States House of Repre-
sentatives to this committee is to go into questions of legislation,
remedial, new, or otherwise. I observed your differentiation between
jurisdiction of states and the Federal Government in the field. "^Vhat
is your opinion as to whether or not the Communist Party should be
outlawed by an act of Congress as an illegal group ?

Mr. Wyman. I don't think, sir, that it is constitutional.

Mr. Doyle. Would it be constitutional for the states to do it?

Mr. Wyman. I don't think so without notice and hearing and with-
out an opportunity to the party to be heard, which I understand has
already taken place before the Subversive Activities Control Board.

Mr. Doyle. Then is it your opinion that the hearings that have
been already held before the Subversive Activities Control Board
are necessarily preliminary to a finding by the Supreme Court that
it is outlawed ?

Mr, Wyman. Oh, absolutely, sir. Otherwise you have a bill of
attainder which is prohibited by the Constitution.

Mr. Arens. The Internal Security Act of 1950 itself, General and
Mr. Doyle, provides, does it not, that the Subversive Activities Con-
trol Board shall receive the evidence from the Attorney General of
the United States as to whether or not the Communist Party is a
Communist action organization within the purview of that Act and
that there then shall be judicial review of that finding.

Mr. Wyman. I understand that that has happened for some period
of years. The chairman of our American Bar Association Special
Committee in this field is Peter Campbell Brown of New York, and
he was the chairman of the Subversive Activities Control Board for
the first two years of hearings on Ihis question, which were originally,
as you know, sent back because of the so-called tainted testimony.

Mr. Doyle. I was going to ask if you haven't, INIr. Arens, or if you
are not going to do it, I am going to ask this distinguished lawyer if
he has any specific recommendations in the field of legislation which

COMMTHSrUST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2211

have not been discussed to recommend to this committee in accord-
ance with our objective under Public Law 601.

Mr. Arens. He may have, Mr. Doyle. Our proposed procedure was
to interrogate him at length on each of four ditferent items wnthin
the Omnibus Bill, because in each of the areas covered by one of
these items he has had a peculiar backgroimd and extensive experi-
ence, both as Attorney General and as a member of the Bar Asso-
ciation committee which has been mandated to cope with certain
problems.

Mr. Doyle. Then I will hold my question in abeyance until you
have finished yours.

Mr. Wyman. I would like to say, sir, if I may, that when my time
is expired toward the end of my testimony, 1 have a statement, a
vei-y brief one, that 1 would like to make which concludes with three
specific reconnnendations.

Mr. Doyle. Very good.

Mr. Arens. General, on the basis of your background and experi-
ence, in charge of work of investigating subversion in the State of
Xew^ Hampshire, may I solicit from you your appraisal and observa-
tions respecting the legislative proposal pending before the commit-
tee to make it a misdemeanor for a person to misbehave before a
congressional committee in the same manner that it is a misdemeanor
for a person to misbehave before a court ?

Mr. Wyman. Well, I would assume, had I not had occasion to
study it, that that was already the law or should be the law.

Mr. Arens. May I advise you, if you are not conversant w4th the
law, that a congressional committee, notwithstanding the Communist
propaganda that is disseminated against it, particularly this com-
mittee, has no contempt power whatsoever; that about a year ago I
sat within three feet of a witness, a Communist I was interrogating,
who in response to every question I asked him villified me. I just
sat there, completely humiliated. He wanted me to break a chair
over his head and make a martyr out of him. He knew we did not
have contempt power. The only power this committee, or any con-
gressional committee, has is to recommend prosecution for perjury
by the proper United States Attorney, or in case the witness refuses
to answer a question which, under the law, he is obliged to answer, to
recommend to the proper House of Congress that he be prosecuted
under the contempt statute for such refusal. That is the law, sir.

I should like to solicit from you, if you please, your observations
and appraisals respecting a provision which would make it a misde-
meanor, subject to a jury trial, for a person to misbehave before a
congressional committee within the meaning or context of that term
as used in the courts.

Mr. Wyman. I assume when you say misdemeanor you do not con-
template the necessities of the grand jury indictment. It could be
brought on the complaint of the United States District Attorney.

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wyman. In New Hampshire we have a statute which may or
may not be of use to the Federal scene, wiierein if a witness is con-
temptuous or refuses to answer, the proceeding is by law required to
be transferred to the Superior Court and there continued in the
presence of the Superior Court, and there subject to the court's power

2212 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

to impose contempt. Probably because of the burden on the Federal
District Courts of any such procedure as applied to the Federal level,
that would not be practicable. But I would certainly think that there
is an obligation on the committee to be courteous and there is an obli-
gation on the witness to be courteous and to be restrained and that
it should be a misdemeanor to commit a contempt of a congressional
committee in the exercise of its official duties. I don't think there
can be any doubt about it. The only question would be perhaps
Avhether you are going to luidertake to define the contempt.

Mr, Akens. May I make this suggestion to you without in any
sense undertaking to participate in your testimony?

Under Title 18, the Criminal Code, the law provides that it shall
be a misdemeanor — it is a misdemeanor — to misbehave within the
presence of a Federal Court.

"To misbehave" now, that term "misbehave" has been miscon-
strued by the courts repeatedly so it now has become what we lawyers
call a term of art. The proposal in the bill is to use the identical
phraseology, make it applicable to a proceeding before a congres-
sional committee.

Mr. Wyman. I think tliere is no question about the need for such
legislation. If a committee has to abide by the rules, so do the wit-
nesses. There can't be any argument with that. I don't think it
reaches the problem that is involved in what to do when a witness
says he is not going to answer, does not rely on the fifth amendment,
and either claims the first amendment or assigns the Watkins or
Sweezy decision as a reason for refusal to answer. Under the pres-
ent Federal system, as I understand it, such a witness must either be
tried before the bar of the House, which is cumbersome and can re-
sult in commitment only for the duration of the session, or prosecuted
for a misdemeanor in the usual course with a sentence of commitment
for 1 year only. In regard to the year, the Supreme Court has
apparently held that separate refusals to answer on the same ground
are not separate contempts so that the aggregate sentence that may
be imposed is 1 year. This means that witnesses know that they
can refuse to answer not relying on the fifth amendment and that
the most they face in tlie way of a penalty is confinement for 1 year,
which, in my o]iinion, is not a sufficient deterrent nor is it sufficient
assurance that Congress will obtain the information that it is entitled
to obtain in order to legislate intelligently. Witnesses are not com-
mitted for contempt unless tlie judicial process finds that their re-
fusal to respond was unlawful.

We have met this ]:)roblem in New Hampshire through our proce-
dure for reference to the court of the questioning itself so that in our
State when a witness refuses to answer and is found in contempt, it
is contempt of court with resulting confinement until he answers.
The practical effect of tliis is neither an unusual nor cruel punish-
ment nor an unreasonable compulsion, but on the contrary an assur-
ance that a witness unlawfully refusing to answer, once the long
judicial path of appeal has been completed, will eventually have to
answer the question. To this extent firmness in this field seems to me
to be sorely needed.

That is something that perhaps you might consider in respect to
the legislation.

coovrMTnsmsT activittes m the new England area 2213

Mr. Arens. We are very liappy to have your comments and recom-
mendations on that, General.

May I invite your attention to another area in which I am certain
you will have comments that will be helpful, to the committee anyway,
namely, tlie Yates case, the etfect of w^iich it has been undertaken to
overcome in certain of the legislation pending before the committee,
namely, a redefinition or reconstruction of what is meant within the
meaning of the Smith Act of the term or word "organize."

Would you kindly just proceed at your own pace to comment upon
that situation ?

Mr. Wyman. As you know, the Yates decision involving the Com-
munists in California has resulted in the rejection of a great number
of convictions and in the dismissal of a great number of prosecutions,
on the theory that "organize" as it appeared in the Smith Act meant
create the party in tlie first instance and not go out and work for it on
the district level or seek to help in the work of a party already or-
ganized and in existence if you wish, since 1917-1918.

They did not need, in my opinion, again, to go that far in inter-
preting the meaning of the Smith Act. Nevertheless, they have, and
it is the law of the land. Therefore, until Congress says otherwise —
and this is another one of those situations where Congress can say
otherwise, if it wants to — it can define the term "organize" to include
activity for the party at any stage or any level, broadening of the
party's base, recrviitment, or expansion of existing subdivisions of
the party, and if that is done I think that will obviate that par-
ticular objection.

But worse, much worse, and of much more consequence in the Yates
decision, is the interpretation by the high court that the provisions
of the Smith Act which in plain language proscribes advocating,
teaching, aiding or abetting the overthrow of the Government of any
state or of the United States by force and violence or other unlawful
means, shall only extend to such advocacy as incites presently to the
commission of an overt act, or calls for present action, so that the
law as it now stands under the Smith Act, which I assumed always
was pretty clearly written, permits a teacher to go upon an educa-
tional campus in this country and say it is a wonderful thing, some
day come the revolution, it is a better system, and it may have to be
accomplished by force and violence, don't do anything about it now,
just wait.

And I think seeds like that ]:)lanted in the minds of youngsters who
have a tendency to be radical in the first instance— it is a very natural
attribute of adolescence — can become grapes of wrath and can become
a very difficult situation later on, wlien they try to make the transition
back to preserving and protecting the system, which we have found,
after all, that it is pretty nearly the best system that man has devised
to live under. None of this is an invasion of academic freedom nor
compidsive process which destroys original creative thought nor which
discourages the basic right to dissent. The investigative process itself
seeks to determine whether there has been mere dissent or actual sub-
version. Such investigation in some situations is complicated in the
extreme and requires careful, searching, cross-examination. Nothing
in the mere asking of questions under compulsory process, courteously
framed and relevant to a constitutional concern of state or Nation,

2214 OOMMUNIiST ACTIVn^IES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREiA.

tells a man what to say or what not to say or scares the light of original
thought out of him.

Mr. Arens. General, on the basis of your experience, would you
express yourself on this record as to why some of the witnesses we had
here in this hearing, as well as others we had in other parts of the
country, identified as Communists come before us and in righteous
indignation protest that they are not a member of an organization
dedicated to the overthrow of the Government of the United States
by force and violence, and when we ask them if they are a member of
the Communist Party, they invoke the constitutional privileges?

Mr. Wyman. I think of course you get right into one of the most
basic things, which is whether the Communist Party as such in the
present stage of affairs is a mere political organization, like the
Republican Party or the Democratic Party, entitled to the first amend-
ment protection, all of those things, or whether it is a conspiratorial
arm of a foreign power, as many responsible agencies and people
have said it is. So far there has been no judicial pronouncement
under the Constitution that it is the latter. And there has been much
talk in the Konigsberg case and in other cases, in the language of
the Supreme Court, about political associations and political activities
and hinting that the first amendment may properly apply to Com-
munist associations and membership.

It is one of those things which presents a terrific problem because
unless the Communist Party is a conspiratorial arm of the foreign
power, which I have been taught it is, then yon have all of the avail-
ability of the constitutional protections; and it is unfortunate, I be-
lieve, that any decision of the Supreme Court should hint, even hint,
that membership in the Communist Party is a mere political activity
privileged under the first amendment. It is not and it is in the in-
terest of the country and of security that the official pronounce-
ment that it is not should come just as soon as the mechanics of juris-
prudence can get that pronouncement to the Supreme Court.

Mr. Arens. I Avonder if I might impose upon your time to get
your judgment on still one more provision. General, which we have
not discussed informally, but I believe you probably could help us on.

One of the provisions pending before the committee precludes
abatement of proceedings before the Subversive Activities Control
Board by reason of the dissolution, reorganization, or change of name
of a respondent organization. We have had this experience, that an
organization, a Communist front organization, has been the object of
either investigation hearings or proceedings before the Subversive
Activities Control Board; then when action or a decision of some kind
becomes imminent, that organization changes its name, reforms its
board of directors and the like, but goes on with the same function.

We have here a provision which tries to stop that situation, that
the Subversive Activites Control Board could proceed to a final adju-
dication notwithstanding tlie change of name or structure or reor-
ganization or dissolution of the particular organization.

Could you give us, if I am not pressing you too hard here — could
you give us your judgment on the desirability of the attack of that
kind?

Mr. Wyjian. Well, I don't see how there can be any question about
it. We have a doctrine in civil law in this country which provides

COMMIHSmST activities' in the new EINGLAND AREA 2215

that the corporate veil can be pierced on occasion. Just by insulating
yourself in a corporate form you cannot avoid certain personal things
done as an organization. If the organization persists in retention
of the same officers, with the same purposes, the same objectives,
the same membership, the mere fact it has changed its name or has
gone through the formal steps of dissolution does not and cannot
affect the responsibility of the Subversive Activities Control Board
which is to find out whether or not, after notice and hearing, that or-
ganization has for one of its purposes a subversive purpose as defined
in the Internal Security Act.

Mr. Arens. But notwithstanding what you have said, General, it
is a fact, is it not, that the International Workers Order, which was
controlled by the Communist Party and which was the object of a
petition by the Attorney General, found itself scot free because a
finding was announced by the Subversive Activities Control Board
that the International Workers Order as an entity was dissolved by
an action in the State of New York ? And all of us in this work know
the International Workers Order functions are going on full blast
throughout the Nation.

Mr. Wyman. I think that is right, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. General, I believe you said a little earlier that you had
some comments and suggestions that you wanted to make in addition
to the comments which we were soliciting from you on these various
provisions.

Mr. Wyman. I have just a few. I understand that is in accord
with committee procedure ?

Mr. Arens. If you please.

Mr. Wyman. It is not very much.

I have been troubled by, and I think it is most unfortunate, the
reports which have appeared in the press lately that two professors
at Lowell Tech were apparently suspended from their teaching posi-
tions by the Institute merely because they had been summoned to
testify here. I had the thought that if this is not the fact it ought
to be quickly cleared up, because the suspension, based on merely
a summons is unwarranted; and I know the committee would not
want it and it is the sort of thing the United States Supreme Court
in the Slochower case held can only take place after notice and
hearing.

And I thought the unilateral action on the part of Lowell Tech
ought to be presented to the people lest the proceedings be cast in an
unfortunate light. They didn't lose their jobs, I have learned since,
because they were subpenaed. That isn't the case at all. I have been
ad^nsed by appropriate authorities that the action taken followed
an extensive interrogation in which one of the witnesses just flatly
refused to say anything further and the other took the fifth amend-
ment. Of course that is an entirely different position and picture
than has been presented, and I am glad at least I was able to learn that.

It seems to me that one of the most difficult things to keep in mind in
all of this work is the objective of security investigations generally.
As I see it, there are two objectives. One is to find out whether there
are subversives around and to keep abreast of it in this country so that
things that happen in other countries won't happen here or can't.

24777— 58— pt. 2 4

2216 OOMMTJNIiST ACTIVrriES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AR'EIA

And secondly, to keep the Congress and Legislatures and the American
people informed of what is going on in this field.

The reaction to public identification of present or prior records of
membership in the Communist Party in this country continues to
remain sharply divided. That raises the question of whether or not
there should be a due regard for the position of a witness as willing or
not willing to testify and disclose all the facts, and whether or not
there is any difference in function or method between what the Fed-
eral committees do and what the State committees do.

In our investigation in New Hampshire, I have published only the
names of witnesses whose refusals to answer necessitated court prose-
cutions and a few others whose affinity for communism or Communist
front organizations was nationally notorious. The names of a great
majority of the witnesses summoned and questioned in our state have
never been made public, not eA^en in the committee's report to the
General Court.

In addition, Ave have operated there under rules of procedure which
contemplate proceeding in executive session, unless the Avitnesses
themselves ask for a public hearing. And in this regard, on the fifth
amendment even the Supreme Court has held there is no right to take
the fifth amendment in private.

How much such procedures may be of application or use to a Fed-
eral committee operating on the national level, such as this one, is hard
to say. To those who believe that all these hearings should be held
in private, you have only to observe that if you hold them in executive
session how are people to see the sordid spectacle of Americans in this
time taking the fifth amendment in a security investigation, when the
enmity of all real Communists for the United States is proven on the
public record beyond a reasonable doubt. l\'lien you hold it in priA^ate
and then print a later report of Avhat happened months afterAvards,
the material not only encourages an already disturbing apathy on the
part of the American public in the regards of the important work of
this committee and otlier committees in the same field, but it encour-
ages an attitude of Avishful thinking on the part of a lot of people,
which you see more every day, Avhere too many bury themselves in the
dream of the Utopia of the possibilities of peaceful coexistence.

Mr. Arens. General, you Avould be interested to know Ave use both
tactics. We have both the executive session and the public session,
and Ave are criticized for both. We are criticized if we have an
executive session because they say it is a star chamber proceeding.
We are criticized if Ave have a public session, because they say we are
seeking headlines and seeking to expose people for the sake of exposure.

This committee meets regularly and decides on a course of action
and lets the chips fall where they may. We try to proceed in justice
and the American tradition. We knoAv Ave are going to be criticized
by Communists and those under Communist discipline and those who
are disillusioned. The committee proceeds in a just fashion.

Mr. Wyman. I Avish the public could know more about how hard
the committee tries, Mr. Arens, not only this one but all of them.
They are not going to unless within reasonable limits the hearings
are held in the open and the procedures fair and above board for
everyone to see.

There is no doubt but what the security investigations in America
must continue. They have to for the security and safety of all of us.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IK TH;E NEW ENGLAND AREA 2217

Not that the world is going to fall tomorrow if they are discontinued,
but the process in that event would be accelerated, and I know how
well you know it. It seems to me that it should be remembered, too,
that even the institutions of higher learning that so often permit
their adolescent student body to be encouraged to consider such in-
vestigations as witch hunting tresi)asses on the domain of academic
freedoms, ought to remember and forevei' teach these students that
tliere were no witches but there are subversives and tliat the work
is important and must continue.

The decisions of the Supreme Court, which have confused the
situation, have made your work and the work of the States more
difficult, infinitely more difficult. In my opinion, it is impossible
to read those decisions without concluding that they are so written
that those who prepared them must have known the effect of the
decisions once promulgated. That means that all our committees,
and I am one in my small State, face a common problem on the need
for public confidence in what we do.

It seems to me that it is of the utmost importance and that we have
(o face it and recognize it, that national security finds the Supreme
Court in its subsequent decisions, the ones that are going to come
along, return closer on its own motion to a reasonable balance be-
tween private rights and national security.

The Court, it seems to me, further, is never going to do this until
it is satisfied that the investigating agencies, both state and Federal,
neither overstep their charters nor overreach the private rights which
have made America famous.

Therefore, all too few people realize the importance of the work you
are doing here ; all too few recognize, as you said, Mr. Arens, that this
committee operates under careful rules of procedure and in the most
circumspect manner. All too few know what the members of this com-
mittee have had to face in executive session, about which you just
referred, and all too many have read the calumny and epithet of the
Un-American Activities Committee and certain other state commit-
tees, which has been very cleverly presented on the editorial pages of
the left wing press.

In this situation I have, finally, just three specific things that
I would like to recommend. I say these things very respectfully.

First : That this committee recommend and press for and not go to
sJeep on the enactment of S. 654.

Mr. Arens. That is the Nelson case

Mr. Wyman. That is the Nelson case legislation, which will give
back to the states their rights to have their sedition laws in their own
self defense. The court by judicial review can always cure abuses in
method or abuses of private rights under those laws. But we are en-
titled to have those laws, and I think if it depends on the intention
of Congress, the Congress should say we are entitled to have them.
They did not intend to take us out of that field. The Department of
Justice favors this.

Secondly, this committee and the Internal Security Subcommittee of
the Senate sponsor by amendment to your resolution, your charter, lan-
guage which will meet the test of Watkms v. The United States in the
charter itself by setting forth in considerable detail the committee's
function, its duties, and its objectives, and take out and away from the

2218 OOMMUNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND ABE'A

court the possibility of judicial review saying that un-American
activities is vulnerable as too nebulous.

I know Mr. Arens has been reciting to witnesses the need and perti-
nency of the question as a matter of administrative procedure. Still
there is all that language in the Watkins opinion about un-American
activities and how this committee conceives of its function in the
grand view of its name, an unnecessary and uncalled-for remark, and
it certainly is something which can be cleared up if you rewrite the
resolution, directing that you are inquiring, amongst other things,
into all present and previous Communist Party membership and affili-
ation or association or activity, and so forth. I think if that is
done, that is a step toward meeting the obligation which the Supreme
Court itself has imposed upon the committee.

Mr. Arens. General, are you familiar with the Barenblatt case ?

Mr. Wyman. I am, sir.

Mr. Arens. Don't you think that helps us ?

Mr. Wyman. Very much, except it is now coming back to the Su-
preme Court. After the Sweezy decision and the Watkins decision,
several of the cases in the state and circuit courts of appeal were
sent back on the ground that the judgment was vacated, and they were
supposed to reconsider them in the light of Sweezy and Watkins ; and
I am happy to say so far as I am concerned in Ohio and in the Ninth
Circuit and New Hampshire, all these courts have reconsidered them
and reaffirmed their former holdings.

Finally, Mr. Doyle, just one more thing. I believe this is important,
too, that in all matters of policy and method, as far as possible, if a
hearing is to take place it be with reasonable restraints which pro-
duce the facts with the least possible costs to private lives.

I would certainly respectfully reconmiend that the names of wit-
nesses subpenaed not be given out in advance of the time that the
hearing takes place unless the witnesses themselves give them out. I
don't know what the practice on that is.

Mr. Arens. You will be interested to know, General — and I think
it might be appropriate to make an observation w^ith reference to this
particular hearing — our committee's policy is to give out no name
of any witness who is to appear who might in any sense be controver-
sial. The only exception we have made as a committee is with refer-
ence to yourself. Someone asked if the Attorney General of New
Hampshire was to testify with regard to legislation, and we said yes.
We had a very unfortunate situation develop in which a man's life
was, or at least was almost, in jeopardy in this area because of an
unfortunate leak which occurred with reference to a witness.

Mr. "\yYMAN. I am glad to hear that, sir. I assumed that was the
case but I didn't know. We tried to do that in New Hampshire.

And finally, I would just say, Mr. Chairman, if these things are
done, if this legislation is passed, I think the Supreme Court itself
without the need for limiting its appellate jurisdiction or otherwise,
will itself, when the next questions are raised by hostile witnesses,
come back so that there will be the balance that many people feel has
swung too far toward individual rights at the expense of a security
program that is reasonable, intelligent, and necessary.

And I don't think there is any other contribution, if you can call
it that, that I can make. I tried to answer the questions.

coMMinsriiST acttvit'ieiS m the new esngland area 2219

A study of any of these cases -would take really an hour or t^vo to
analyze, dissect, and put together ; but most of what the court has de-
cided can be obviated if Congress wants to do it.

Mr. D0Y1.E. I wish to say to the distinguished Attorney General
that I certainly appreciate your very manifest preparations that you
have made to be helpful to us constructively. And I want to ask you
three or four questions.

Perhaps you made observations on this point before Chairman
Moulder and I came to the connnittee this afternoon. If you did, why
I'll just mention it and pass it over.

It is frequently commented in some of tlie press and some other
sources that this committee should be Jibolished because there is no
need of it, that the FBI does the work. As a matter of fact, the
Emergency Civil Liberties Committee which we believe is a Com-
munist front, is in the process of a campaign for that purpose now.

What is your opinion on that, Mr. Attorney Generals Have you
given it any thought? Is there any ditference in the work that this
committee does and the work the FBI does? Why should not this
committee be abolished, the Internal Security Subcommittee of the
Senate be abolished, and let the FBI do the work?

Mr. Wyman. There is all the difference in the world, Mr. Doyle.
In the first place, the FBI has all too few agents to cover robbery,
rape, and all the interstate crimes, as well as subversion and security.
They don't have the subpena power, they are not a law enforcing
agency but rather are the investigative arm of the Department of
Justice, and their reports cannot be made public. They operate under
the strictest security precautions.

One of the things the Nation faces constantly in this field is apathy
and indifference, or the notion that it is all a tempest in a teapot and
it is not necessary and it is a rehash of the same old stuff.

It is the function of this committee and the Internal Security Sub-
committee and a very important function to show the American public
how important and how vital is the security program because there
are some subversives still around. It doesn't seem possible in Amer-
ica but there are some people around who would like to destroy this
country. I can't understand why, but if there are, then it is the duty
of this committee to tell the American people and to report to Con-
gress so that Congress can legislate and legislate intelligently.

Mr. Doyle. Then I take it that you feel that part of the function-
ing of this committee is educational in its procedure?

Mr. Wtman. It is vitally educational. This committee's reports,
if they have been read by anyone, can't help but contribute a great
deal to the understanding of the nature, meaning, and scope of the
Communist apparatus.

Mr. Doyle. Over and above the three recommendations that you
made, Points 1, 2, and 3, just a minute ago, have you any recommenda-
tion to make to this committee on procedures? You made the one
basic one, I think, and I take it in connection with our charter, in view
of the decision in the Watkins case by the United States Supreme
Court. I recognize that was a specific recommendation, but you have
seen us at work here in the last day or two. Have you any suggestion
to make? I have not discussed this with you, I know. But I am
taking the chance on whatever your answer might be. But we want
your answer — I do, whatever it may be.

2220 ooMMinsriiST activities in the new England area

Mr. Wt]vian. Well, as I say, in a small state with a small investiga-
tion we have operated under rules of procedure that contemplate execu-
tive session. I at first have wondered, and have wondered for quite
some period of time, why this committee couldn't operate in that
manner, recognizing that a ^reat deal of glamour and so forth may
be washed off if you proceed in executive session, and recognizing that
there are people who are so opposed that they will cry "star chamber"
any time you meet in private ; but then I decided that you shouldn't
proceed always in executive session because of the necessity and need
for keeping the American public advised of the fact that there are
people around of the type, not characterizing any individual per-
son, but of the type that spits in your eye, if you want to put it that
way, on the subversive question or on the question of subversive asso-
ciations.

As far as the rest of it is concerned, all I can say is that I think the
methods and the procedures certainly should try in those cases where
a person lias once been even a member of the Communist Party many
years ago and has since World War II, for example, had no affiliation
or connection at all, has tried to reform, has tried to get away from
it, I tliink that sometimes it is better to let sleeping dogs lie and not
to publicize his name.

Whether or not that is the procedure of the committee now, I do
not know. If Congress directs you to report the names, of course,
you have no choice.

Mr. Doyle. For the gentleman's information I will say that I hold
in my hand a printed booklet of our rules consisting of eight and a half
pages that have been in effect for several years, and on the question of
executive hearings let me read the brief paragraph :

Rule IV, Subdivision A. If a majority of the Committee or Subcommittee, duly
appointed as provided by the rules of the House of Representatives, believes that
the interrogation of a w^itness in a public hearing might endanger national security
or unjustly injure his reputation, or the reputation of other individuals, the Com-
mittee shall interrogate such witness in an Executive Session for the purpose of
determining the necessity or advisability of conducting such interrogation there-
after in a public hearing.

Attendance at Executive Sessions shall be limited to Members of the Com-
mittee, its staff, and other persons whose presence is requested or consented to
l)y the Committee.

All testimony taken in Executive Sessions shall be liept secret and shall not be
released or used in public sessions without the approval of a majority of the
Committee.

And in addition to that I say frequently we hold executive sessions
and discuss this very question.

Now, in view of your observation about us amending our cliarter,
I wish to say to the gentleman that has been a matter of deep con-
cern to me since the Watkins decision. I don't disagree with the
Supreme Court decision on that term "un-American," as one member
of the committeCj and the committee well knows it. I think we ought
to meet that decision of the Supreme Court and correct our charter
on that one point. It is a matter of record in Congress that I have
said so.

But that doesn't mean our whole charter is ambiguous. It isn't
by a long shot. I think there is that one term there that needs
strengthening and clarification.

coMMtnsriST AcnViriES in the neAv engiand area 2221

I notice you frequently use the term here "subversive." You re-
peatedly use the term "subversive." What do you have in mind by
the term "subversive" ?

Mr. Wyman. Our New Hampshire law is patterned on the Ober Act
of Maryland. It was practically copied from the original Ober Act
which is a very comprehensive act known as the Subversive Activities
Act of 1951. In that act there are defined the terms "subversive per-
son" and "subversive organization" with considerable care and con-
siderable clarity so that we have used the word "subversive" thus
separating from any question of identifying it either with the Com-
munist Party or any Fascist organization or otherwise.

Mr. Doyle. May I ask you this practical question. I haven't
discussed this with you. But in view of the fact that we are search-
ing for your suggestions and advice in the field of legislation, both
on the bills that have been mentioned or any other legislation, would
you suggest that we use the term "subversive" in our charter?

Mr. Wyman. I would certainly suggest that you should use in your
charter such languaoe as makes it clear beyond a reasonable doubt
that your directive from Congress is to find out who is or ever was
or has been associated with or has sympathized with or been a member
of an organization infiltrated by Communists, and so forth, or any
person who is a member of a subversive organization, and define the
organization; and the answer is Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. And in your judgment would the term "subversive"
be comprehensive enough to indicate that ?

Mr. Wyman. No, not standing alone.

Mr. DoYi^. I have one more question. I am interested in the
question of the attorneys of the Bar. This question of whether or
not attorneys identified as Connnunists be prohibited from appearing
before this committee was therefore of great concern to me as a mem-
ber of the Bar. If you eliminate the member of the Bar who has
been identified as a Communist from representing a client before this
committee or any other congressional committee, are you not depriv-
ing some member of the American public from having a lawyer of
his own choice ?

Mr. Wyman. I have never heard anything about depriving any
person from counsel before this committee. Is it suggested that be-
cause a man is or was a Comnumist and happens to be a lawyer that
he himself, in so many words, is to be prohibited from practicing before
the Un-American Activities Committee or from representation before
this committee?

Mr. Doyle. Oh, yes; that has been frequently raised as a question.
That is why I am raising it with you, not only before this committee
but any congressional committee.

Mr. Wyman. I would say that, probably until and unless the Sub-
versive Activities registration provisions have been upheld, that would
be struck down by the high court as a violation of equal protection of
laws, and also possibly of the due process clause. I think that the place
to reach your attorney who is a Conmiunist is not through committee
restrictions but through the State Bar Associations or the Federal
Bar. You don't reach them by providing collateral restrictions on
their activities. You try to encourage the Bar in their own interests

2222 OOMlVIUNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND ABE'A

of cleaning house and preserving public confidence to take their steps
through their grievance committees on professional conduct.

Mr. Doyle. I wish to thank the Attorney General.

Mr. Moulder. ]Mr. Kearney ?

Mr. Kearney. General, I appreciate your visit here with us today
and I have listened with a great deal of respect to the suggestions
you have offered.

I would like to ask you what your thought is with reference to the
several States having a subversive commission or committee set up
within the confines of its own state, shall we say, in order to take
some of the load off the Federal investigation committees, to do the
same work. Not to anticipate your answer, but let me give you the
reason for that question. It is rather improbable, highly improbable,
for us to cover the field.

Mr. Wyman. That is right.

Mr. Kearney. We are in a situation today that unbeknown to us
several measures are coming on the floor of the House that are going
to be rollcall votes. These hearings in Boston to me are terrifically
important, and I feel I should stay here rather than go back to the
House and vote. But if we did have in all of the states of the Union
a similar committee, call it by what name the legislatures of the
various states care to call it, I think it would be a tremendous aid in
spreading to the people of the country the dangers that exist within
this country today, and I am frank to say that I think the dangers
are great.

Mr. Wyman. I can only say in answer to that, Mr. Kearny, that I,
as president of the National Association of Attorneys General recom-
mended that specifically for each state. I believe that they should
have it. I believe it should be in a standby position, which it has
been made in permanent legislation in New Hampshire. We have
amended our subversive activities law and provide that if at any
time the Attorney General acting as a committee of one for legisla-
tion in the process of factfinding wishes to investigate and report
to the legislature he can do so. It is permanent legislation. The
standby provisions have exceeding value. The only possible trouble
is who gets the job. If politically motivated people get the job, if they
use it for political purposes as distinct from security purposes, then
possibly there won't be cooperation between the Federal committees
or such cooperation as the law permits with the FBI. Then you
have a problem.

Mr. Kearney. I bring back again the thought expressed a few
minutes ago by our counsel. It has always been the policy of this
committee to cooperate with local agencies in the various states that
we hold our committee hearings in, and in this particuar case that the
director referred to, actually the man's life could be in danger. He is
a highly important witness and it seems to me that when there is that
spirit of cooperation between the committee of the House and the state
committee, that at least there should be that close cooperation that
no news be leaked out in order to gain specific headlines.

Mr. Wyman. There is no question about it, sir, and congressional
legislation, if you wish to, can recognize the dual relationship and re-
sponsibility of the states and encourage state legislatures, who are
the only ones who can create such committees, to create such commit-

coMMinsnsT activities m the new eingland area 2223

tees with appropriate standards, both for staflSng and for their mem-
bership.

Mr. Kearney. General, I want to express my personal thanks for
your appearance here today.

Mr. M0U1.DER. Mr. Mcintosh ?

Mr. McIntosh. I concur in the comments that were made. We
very much appreciate your assistance and recommendations.

There was one point, although it is not pending in our committee
directly, it is the problem which we as Congressmen may be facing
in the near future, and that is the other approach, if I might say that,
to some of the difficulties of recent Supreme Court decisions, which
has evolved in the suggestion now pending in the Senate in bill form
of withdrawing appellate jurisdiction in certain areas. I am sure
that we in our committee have very mixed reactions to that approach.
Myself, I do not buy that as a logical way to meet some of the prob-
lems.

But I wondered if you at this time were familiar enough with
that particular proposal to express an opinion, or have any of the
associations in which you are active taken a position on that ?

Mr. Wyman. The organizations have not, at least not to my knowl-
edge.

Individually, I personally feel that legislation is unwise, I believe
first, that it fails to create a substitute appellate tribunal which would
have the effect of having the 48 State Supreme Courts and the Circuit
Courts of Appeal all interpreting the Constitution, possibly in dif-
ferent ways, and, secondly, I think that it actually involves an attempt
by legislation to meet a series of decisions that for today and for the
time many people sharply disagree with, which might at another day
and another time find in the public power question, or some similar
thing, a similar group trying to take away from the judiciary the
right of exercise of appellate jurisdiction to determine those questions.
So I think the answer has to be, and I tried to say it here today, in
persuading Mr. Justice Warren and the other Justices of the high
court in their decisions to recognize the need for and to affirm reason-
able, restrained, careful, fair procedures in security matters and the
private rights, which I am sure are the policy of this committee and
we try to make it policy in our state committee.

Mr. McIntosh. Thank you.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Wyman, this committee certainly is highly hon-
ored by your presence before us and giving us the benefit of the advice
and recommendations which you have submitted to the committee.

Further, I wish to state our deep appreciation for your taking
time from your busy schedule in the work you have in connection
with the high office which you hold to give the study which you have
given and the work which you have performed in connection with
the problems of this committee.

And, too, the recommendations which you have made liave im-
pressed me vei-y deeply, and I know the same impression was made
upon the other members of the committee.

And in closing I wish to say we are profoundly impressed by your
work, which you performed as Attorney General of the State of
New Hampshire. We are deeply grateful for the complimentary
statements which you made concerning our work.

Mr. Wyman. Thank you.

2224 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Moulder. As long as we have public officials such as yourself
holding the high office you have in our great Nation, we will have no
fear of preserving our American way of life, and I know that greater
duties probably await you in the future, for a man of your capabili-
ties and what you have done for your country. Thank you very
much, sir.

Mr. Wyman. Thank you, sir. I hope you know it has been a two-
way street. We appreciate the continued cooperation of the staff of
this committee at all times and over the years.

Mr. Moulder. Thank you very much.

Mr. Wyman. Thank you.

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for five minutes.

(Brief recess.)

(Committee members present: Kepresentatives Moulder, Do^de,
and Mcintosh.)

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.

Call your next witness, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arexs. If you please, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Sidney Ravden.

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman
administers an oatli to you.

Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn,
please ?

Do you solenmly swear that the testimony you are about to give
before this committee of the United States Congress will be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Ravden. I do.

TESTIMONY OF SIDNEY RAVDEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
GABEIEL KANTROVITZ

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.

Mr. Raatjen. My name is Sidney Ravden, 36 Crawford Street.
Roxbury, Massachusetts, and I am a lielper.

Mr. Arens. I didn't get the last.

Mr. Ravden. I am a helper. H-e-1-p-e-r.

Mr. Arens. In wliat occupation, please?

Mr. Ram)en. Structural line.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr, Ravden, in response to
a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?

Mr. RA^T>EN. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mr. Ravden. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

Mr. Kantrovttz. Gabriel Kantrovitz, 294 Washington Street,
Boston.

Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in Roxbury, Massachusetts,
Mr. Ravden?

Mr. Ravden. Approximately forty some odd years.

Mr. Arens. Do you Iniow a man by the name of James Glatis?

Mr. Ravden. On the advice of my counsel I respectfully decline to
answer the question on the following grounds, one

Mr. Arens. You are reading now from a prepared statement?

COMMtnsrilST ACTIYITIEiS IK THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2225

Mr. Ravden. I am reading from a prepared statement, yes, sir.

One, because it is directed towards a compulsory disclosure of my
political beliefs and associations mider the first amendment of the
Constitution, because the resolution creating this committee is un-
constitutionally vague, because this inquiry is outside the committee's
jurisdiction, as jurisdiction is defined in the resolution creating it;
the question is not pertinent to any subject within the committee's
jurisdiction. Under the terms of the Watkins decision an investiga-
tion into my political activities can be proper only when there is a
specific resolution of Congress directing such an investigation if indeed
it can be proper under any circumstances. The investigation involves
exposure for exposure's sake because tliis investigation is injurious
to American democracy and impinges on the free intercourse of ideas
and associations of all citizens.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Ravden, I should like to display to you a number
of photostatic copies of checks which have come into the custody,
by proper means, of this committee.

First is a check payable to the Daily Worker, The check is dated
January 21, 1955, and the signature on the check, the maker of the
check, IS Sidney Ravden, R-a-v-d-e-n, 3C Crawford Street, Roxbury,
Massachusetts.

Kindly look at that check, as I display it to you, and see if you
would not accommodate the Committee on Un-American Activities
by verifying the authenticity of that signature.

(Document handed to witness.)

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer that question, sir.

Mr. Arens. Is that your signature on that check, sir?

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer that question, sir.

Mr. Arens. I display to you now, Mr. Ravden, a series of photo-
static copies of checks aggregating over $1,000 payable to the Pub-
lishers New Press, Incorporated, all drawn by Sidney Ravden. The
endorsements on the check indicate that the Publishers New Press is
the publisher of the Daily Worker and of The Worker. The endorse-
ments so indicate.

Kindly accommodate us, if you please, sir, by examining each of
these several checks, with the end in view of verifying the authenticity
of the signatures.

(At this point Mr. Kearney entered the hearing room.)

(Documents handed to witness.)

Mr. Moulder. Do you want to have them marked now as exhibits ?

Mr. Arens. After he has completed his examination, Mr. Chair-
man, it is my intention to have them en banc marked as one exhibit.

Mr. Moulder. Very well.

Mr. Arens. Those cliecks you will observe, Mr. Ravden, cover a
period of approximately two, two and a half years.

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer the question, sir.

Mr. Arens. Why?

Mr. Ravden. On the grounds that I have just stated, because it is
compulsory disclosure of my political l)eliefs and associations on the
first amendment to the Constitution, because the resolution creat-
ing this committee is unconstitutionally vague, because this inquiry
is outside the committee's jurisdiction as that jurisdiction is defined
in the resolution creating it, that the question is not pertinent to any
subject within the committee's jurisdiction under the terms of the

2226 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Watkins decision, and investigation into my political activities can
be proper only when there is a specific resolution of Congress creating
such an investigation, if indeed, it can be proper under any circum-
stances; the investigation involves exposure for exposure's sake be-
cause this investigation is injurious to American democracy and im-
pinges on the free intercourse of ideas and associations of all citizens.

Mr. Arens. x\re you, Mr. Eavden, invoking those provisions of the
fifth amendment which endow you w^ith the privilege of not giving
testimony which could incriminate you?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I am talking about the first amendment here.

Mr. Arens. Kindly answer the question. Are you invoking those
provisions of tlie fifth amendment which endow you with the priv-
ilege of not incriminating yourself ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Arens (continuing). If not, it is my intention to ask the chair-
man to direct you to answer the question.

Mr. Ravden. I have just invoked these here specific answers to the
first amendment, sir.

Mr. Arens. Let it be clear, then, in the record, so that there may be
no ambiguity whatsoever in the record .

Mr. Ravden. On the first amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you answered
the question as to whether or not the documents which I have dis-
played to you bear a true and correct signature of yourself, you would
be supplying information which might be used against 3'Ou in a
criminal proceeding ?

Now, please, answer that precise question so there can be no am-
biguity in this record.

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I haven't reached that point yet, sir. I have been
talking about the first amendment.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest now that the
witness be ordered and directed to answer the last outstanding prin-
cipal question.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so directed. You are ordered and di-
rected to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I believe that Congressman Doyle in talking to the
Attorney General that just was here admitted that the Watkins de-
cision has been getting them into trouble and I am specifically talking
about the Watkins decision at this particular time.

Mr. Arens. Would you tell us whether or not you are invoking
those provisions of the fifth amendment which endow you Avith the
privilege of not giving testimony w^hich would incriminate you?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I believe I can rely on the first amendment. I also
invoke the fifth amendment, which gives me protection against any
tendency to incriminate myself.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, if you told this com-
mittee while you were under oath whether or not these are your
signatures on these various documents you would be supplying in-

COMMUlSniST ACTIVrTTEiS EST THiE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2227

formation which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I invoke, sir, the privilege under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the
witness be ordered and directed to answer that question. The question
is posed with the sole and exclusive reason of testing this witness'
good faith in invoking the fifth amendment. And I also call any-
one's attention, who reads this record, to the fact that the witness
has at least for 5 minutes, of course, been attempting to avoid the
taking of the fifth amendment.

Mr. Moulder. That is correct.

The witness is ordered and directed to answer the question. In
fact, your response was not a response to the question.

Mr. IRavden. Despite my innocence, an honest answer may have a
tendency to incriminate me.

Mr. Arens. Are you innocent of affixing your signature to the vari-
ous documents which I have just displayed to you?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. The same privileges.

Mr. Moulder. You claim the same privileges ?

Mr. Ravden. Yes, sir.

Mr. Moulder. Under the fifth amendment ?

Mr. Ravden. Yes, sir ; under the first and fifth amendments.

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, based upon careful inves-
tigation by the investigative staff of this committee, that these are
your signatures on these documents, these checks, which I have just
displayed to you, and I ask you now while you are under oath to
kindly affirm or deny that assertion.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer this question on the
basis of the first and the fifth amendments.

Mr, Arens. Would you accommodate the Committee on Un-Ameri-
can Activities by submitting now a copy of your signature, so that the
Committee on Un-American Activities may make a comparison of
your present signature with the signature which apj)ears on these
various checks ?

(The witness confen-ed with his coimsel.)

Mr. Ravden. This is not a court of law, and I respectfully decline
on the basis of the first and fifth amendments.

Mr. Doyle. May I inquire, Mr. Arens, are those copies of bank
checks from a Boston bank ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

Mr. DoTLE. And charged to his account ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. And paid by the paying bank over his signature ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

INIr. Doyle. All right.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that these checks
in toto be marked as a Ravden exhibit and incorporated by reference
in this record.

Mr. Moulder. All of the documents referred to by counsel will be
so marked in toto.

(Documents marked "Ravden Exhibit No. 1," and retained in
committee files.)

2228 COMMUNIST ACTIVmES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Moulder. May I inquire in connection with those exhibits what
is the total amount involved ?

Mr. Arens. It is over $1,000. I don't have the item right before
me at the moment, Mr. Chairman.

May I proceed, Mr. Chairman ?

Mr. Moulder. Proceed.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell the Committee on Un-American Activities
and the people hearing your testimony here, if you please, sir, what
you have done in the course of the last few years to promote freedom
of the press, a very laudable objective. What have you done now
toward promoting freedom of the press in this vicinity ?

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer that question, sir, on
the basis of the first and the fifth amendments.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities in this public session what you,
Sidney Ravden, have done to promote freedom of the press you would
be supplying information which miglit be used against you in a
criminal proceeding?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. Judge Cardozo said that the fifth amendment is a
barrier between the Government and the individual. In that
respect

Mr. Kearney. Are you reading now ?

Mr. Ravden. Beg your pardon ?

Mr. Kearney. Are you now reading a statement ?

Mr. Ravden. No. I am just repeating what my counsel told me.
And I am thus protecting the freedom of the press.

Mr. Kearney. Do you think you are protecting the freedom of the
press now?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. And I also am by invoking the fifth amendment.

Mr. Kearney. By invoking the fifth amendment now you are pro-
tecting the freedom of the press ?

Mr. Ravden. That is right.

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, tell us what else you have done in the course
of the last 5 years to protect the freedom of the press. You have
opened the door to this area of inquiry, let the record show, and I
now insist on you telling this committee what else you have done to
protect the freedom of the press in the course of the last 5 years.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I say for the reasons I have previously stated I re-
spectively decline to answer the question on the ground of the first
and the fifth amendments.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that under the
law this witness has now waived the right of precluding inquiry with
respect to his activities promoting freedom of the press by opening the
door himself, and I therefore respectfully suggest that the chairman
now order and direct the witness to answer the question as to what
he has done in the course of the last 5 years in this general vicinity
to promote in his manner, in his way, the freedom oi the press-
Mr. Moulder. The Chair does order and direct the witness to
answer the question.

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
basis of the first and fifth amendments.

coMMtnsriiST AcnviriEiS in the new England area 2229

Mr. Aeens. For the purpose of refreshing your recollection, Mr.
Witness, I should like to lay before you a photostatic reproduction
of a document dated November 5, 1953, from the Boston Conservatory
Auditorium, in which an agreement is entered into, according to the
document, between the Boston Conservatory of Music and the Free-
dom of the Press Committee, Mr. S. Ravden, manager, 36 Crawford
Street, Roxbury, Mass., and signed Sidney Ravden, secretary, for
the purpose of an assembly which was to take place there. According
to this contract of agreement, a consideration of $100 passed for the
purpose of renting the Boston Conservatory Auditorium on January
30, 1954.

Kindly look at this document and see if that refreshes your recol-
lection with reference to the facts and circumstances which I have
just recited.

( Document handed to the witness. )

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
basis of the first and fifth amendments.

Mr. Arens. Is the Freedom of the Press Committee an organiza-
tion controlled by the Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer this question on the
basis of the first and fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Armando Penha ?

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer this question on the
basis of the first and fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Armando Penha has advised us that while he was an
undercover agent in the Communist conspiracy undertaking to de-
velop information for the protection of this Nation, he knew you, Sid-
ney Ravden, as a Communist, active in propaganda activities of the
Communist conspiracy. You now, sir, have the opportunity, while
you are under oath, to deny that serious allegation respecting yourself.

Do you care to avail yourself of that privilege ?

Mr. Ravden. I respectfully decline to answer this question, sir, on
the basis of the first and the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the photo-
static copy of the last document which I just displayed to the witness
be appropriately marked and incorporated by reference in this record.

Mr. Moulder. The document will be so marked as Exhibit No. 2.

(Document marked "Ravden Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com-
mittee files.)

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
tlie staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Moulder. Do you have any questions, Mr. Doyle ?

Mr. Doyle. No, sir, I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any questions, Mr. Kearney ?

Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. Do you have any questions, Mr. Mcintosh ?

Mr. McIntosh. No, I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be
David Murray Fein.

Kindly come forward.

Remain standing while the chairman administers an oath to you.

2230 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Moulder. Hold up your right hand, please.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before
this Committee of the United States Congress will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Fein. I do, sir.

TESTIMONY OF DAVID MURRAY FEIN ' (FINE), ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, HOWARD S. WHITESIDE

Mr. Fein. Mr. Chairman, before we start I wish to object to all these
pictures taking. Now, this is disobeying your own rule.

Mr. Moulder. The photographers at the request of the witness will
refrain from taking any photographs during the course of the hear-
ing while the witness is testifying, and I also ask that the lights be
turned off.

Mr. Fein. There are two further questions that I would like to have
clarified before we start, gentlemen, and that is that I would like to
know now under what congressional or committee authorization this
subcommittee is operating, and, secondly, I would like to obtain a clear
delineation now of the scope of this investigation.

Mr. Arens. I should be very glad to attempt to accommodate you,
sir. First you have to submit yourself to an oath. Have you done
that, sir?

Mr. Fein. Yes, indeed.

Mr. Arens. Kindly first identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.

Mr. Fein. O. K., sir. My name is David Murray Fein. I live in
Henniker, New Hampshire.

Mr. Arens. And for the purpose of identification, have you gone
by any other name ?

Mr. Fein. Not as I recall.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever gone under the name of Moses Fine or
Moses Fein ?

( The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Fein. The point in that connection is the fact that my parents
gave the wrong name at my birth and the fact in the census of 1910,
if you wish to find

Mr. Arens. It was solely and exclusively for the purpose of identi-
fication, sir, that I asked if you had gone by any other name.

Mr. Fein. No. I was always known

Mr. Arens. Specifically if you have gone under the name of Moses
Fine or Fein ?

Mr. Fein. No.

Mr. Arens. All right, sir.

You are appearing today in response to a subpena which was served
upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activities ?

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, would you kindly identify yourself?

Mr. Whiteside. My name is Howard S. Whiteside, with offices at
30 State Street, Boston.

^ Voucher for witness fee signed David M. "Fein."

C'OMMinsnST ACnVITTES m the new EiNGLAND ARE>A 2231

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, in response to your interrogation or question,
which you pose, Public Law 601 of the 79th Congress

Mr. Fein. Just a minute, please.

Mr. Akens. establishes the Committee on Un-American Activ-
ities and its jurisdiction. Among other provisions of Public Law 601
the Committee on Un-American Activities is to exercise a continuous
watchfulness over the execution by the administrative agencies con-
cerned of any laws the subject matter of which is within the jurisdic-
tion of this committee.

Within the jurisdiction of this committee is the Internal Security
Act of 1950, which has numerous provisions relating to Communists,
Communist activities, and Communist propaganda.

Another law which is within the jurisdiction of this committee is
the Communist Control Act of 1954 which has nmnerous provisions
relating to the operation and control of the Communist Party.

Still another act is the Foreign Agents Kegistration Act.

Still other acts are numerous criminal statutes.

And there is now pending before the Committee on Un-American
Activities H. R. 9937.

For the purpose of enabling this Committee on Un-American Activ-
ities to better exercise judgment upon the administration of the pres-
ent laws, to determine v/hether or not the present laws need amending,
strengthening, or changing, to determine whether or not new legisla-
tion or remedial legislation is needed, the Committee on Un-American
Activities is holding public hearings.

It is our understanding that you, sir, do have some information
which might be helpful to this committee in the general fund of infor-
mation it is accumulating for the purpose I have just stated. Kindly
tell this committee where and when you were born.

Mr. Fein. Just one moment, sir.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. Well, there are two questions, further, that I would like
to ask, which you have not at all answered or given to me. And that
is what is the purpose of this investigation ? And you have not as yet
given me the authorization for this subcommittee.

Mr. Arens. Yes ; I shall give you the authorization.

Mr. Fein. All right, sir.

Mr. Arens. I think I have given you the purpose, sir.

Under date of January 15, 1958, the Committee on Un-American
Activities met in executive session in Washington, D. C, and author-
ized these hearings by a specific resolution.

At the time a motion was made by Mr, Scherer, of Ohio, a member
of this committee, seconded by Mr. Willis, of Louisiana, a member of
this committee, and it was unanimously carried, after a quorum being
present, authorizing the holding of this particular series of hearings
for this purpose :

1, The extent, character, and objects of Communist infiltration and Communist
Party propaganda activities in the textile and other basic industries,

Mr. Fein. Not so fast, then.

Mr. Arens. I will give you a copy of it in just a moment.

Mr. Fein. I would like to make notes.

24777— 58— pt. 2-

2232 OOMMUNUST ACTIVITIES EN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Arens (continuing) :

both within and without the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the legislative

purposes being :

(c) To obtain additional information for use by the committee in its con-
sideration of Sec. 16 of H. R. 9352 relating to the proposed amendment of Sec-
tion 4 of the Communist Control Act of 1954, prescribing a penalty for knowingly
and wilfully becoming or remaining a member of the Communist Party with
knowledge of the purposes or objectives thereof ; and

(&) To obtain additional information, adding to the committee's overall
knowledge on the subject so that Congress may be kept informed and thus pre-
pared to enact remedial legislation in the National Defense, and for internal
security, when and if the exigencies of the situation require it.

2. Execution by administrative agencies concerned of laws requiring the list-
ing of printing presses and machines capable of being used to produce or publish
printed matter in the possession, custody, ownership, or control of the Com-
munist Party or Communist fronts, the legislative purpose being to assist Con-
gress in appraising the administration of Title 50, U. S. C, Section 786 (6),
and in developing such amendments to the Internal Security Act of 1950 as it
may deem necessary.

3. Communist techniques and strategy in the raising of funds for the benefit
of the Communist Party, the legislative purpose being to determine whether a
recommendation should be made tightening the laws relating to tax exemption
which labor unions enjoy, and for the additional reasons set forth in items 1 (a)
and (b) of this resolution.

4. Entry and dissemination in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of foreign
Communist Party propaganda, the legislative purpose being to determine the
necessity for, and advisability of, amendments to the Foreign Agents Registra-
tion Act designed more effectively to counteract the Communist schemes and
devices now used in avoiding the prohibitions of the Act.

5. The extent, character and objects of Communist Party underground ac-
tivities within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the legislative purposes
being set forth in items 1(a) and (b) of this resolution.

6. Execution by administrative agencies concerned, of laws relating to de-
portation of aliens who are members of the Communist Party, the legislative
purpose being to assist Congress in appraising the administration of Section
241 (a) (6) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 66 Stat. 204-206, and in
developing such amendments to that Act as may be deemed necessary.

7. Any other matter within the jurisdiction of the committee which it, or any
subcommittee thereof, appointed to conduct this hearing, may designate.

Now, sir, kindly answer the principal outstanding question.

Mr. Fein. ^^Hiich is? Would you mind repeating that question,
sir? I am sorry. I lost the thread of the question. Would you
ask it, I mean, again ?

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed ?

Mr. Fein. Oh. I am employed by Lowell Technological Institute.
I am an instructor there in physics and mathematics.

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed?

Mr. Fein. Two years, approximately, sir.

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ?

Mr. Fein. New York City, sir.

Mr. Arens. When?

Mr. Fein. 1909.

Mr. Arens. Please give us, if you will be good enough to do so, a
word about your education.

Mr. Fein. Well, I am a graduate of Columbia University, with a
Master's Degree.

Mr. Arens. And when, please, sir?

Mr. Fein. A Baccalaureate Degree.

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon.

Mr. Fein. A Baccalaureate Decfree.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THiE NEW EINGLAND AREA 2233

Mr, Aeens. Wlien, please, sir?

Mr. Fein. Well, 1937 for the Baccalaureate Degree; 1947 for a
Baccalaureate Degree in Electrical Engineering; and a Master's
Degree in 1952, I think.

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education?

Mr. Fein. Well, it hasn't completed my formal education yet.

Mr. Arens. Are you still pursuing a course of study?

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And what course of study are you pursuing, and where,
sir?

Mr. Fein. At B. U., Boston University.

Mr. Arens. And what course are you pursuing there?

Mr. Fein. Physics. I am trying to obtain a doctorate in Physics.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us, if you will be good enough to do so, the
principal employments you have had since adulthood. I don't mean
part-time incidental employment, just the principal employments.

Mr. Fein. I have been teaching for the past five years, all told, and
prior to that I have been in the optical field as an optometrist, which
is about the major part of my life.

Mr. Arens. Then, if you please, sir, let's start with the optometry
field. Where were you engaged in the optometry field?

Mr. Fein. In New York City.

Mr. Arens. And for a private business firm ?

Mr. Fein. I was engaged, yes, partly that and partly my own.

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time ?

Mr. Fein. That is going back some time.

Mr. Arens. Your best recollection. We will not hold you to the
dates, too closely.

Mr. Fein. You mean this period?

Mr. Arens. Your best recollection as to the approximate time in
which you were engaged in the optometry field.

Mr. Fein. About fifteen years, I guess. Maybe take out — ap-
proximately fifteen years, say.

Mr. Arens. You were then living in New York City ?

Mr. Fein. Yes.

Mr. Arens. "What was your address in New York City, please, sir ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I come to the point now where I don't think we ought
to pursue this line of questioning any further. I think that has gone
now beyond the time during which I wish to talk about.

Mr. Arens. You might explain a little bit there for us, please, sir,
so we understand one another.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. For the past 5 years I have been living

Mr. Arens. No.

Mr. Fein. I know that.

Mr. Arens. Kindly respond to the question sir. Wliere did you
live in New York City when you were engaged in optometry?

Mr. Fein. I am going to answer that question in this particular
waj. I am going to say now that for the past 5 years I have been
living in New Hampshire, that I am prepared now to discuss my life
in New England for and during these past 5 years, and I think an-

2234 OOMMUNTiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

swering questions beyond that period is not relevant to this particular
investigation.

Mr. Arens. Would j^ou like to have me explain the relevancy

Mr, Feix. Yes.

Mr. Arexs. And the pertinency ?

Mr. Fein. Yes,

Mr. Arens. We have information, sir, which I think I can best
portray to you by exhibiting this document, indicating that you, while
living at 1306 Chisholm Street in the Bronx, signed a Communist
Party nominating petition. Do you have a recollection of that?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I am not going into that period.

Mr. Arens. I should, if you please, sir, like to display to you a
photostatic copy of a nominating petition — Independent Nominating
Petition — Communist Party, to which the signature of one David
Fein, 1306 Chisholm Street, Borough of Bronx, New York, is affixed,
for the purpose of nominating Isidore Begun on the Communist Party
ticket for Representative in Congress from the Twenty-Third Con-
gressional District of New York State.

Kindly look at this document and please, sir, tell us whether or not
you can verify tlie authenticity of the signature there, David Fein —
the fourth line down.

(Document handed to the witness.)

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I might point out that the date on this document is Sep-
tember 1940 and I said I will not go back any further than five years.

Mr. Arens. Kindly look at something else in the document. Kindly
point to the fourth line where the name David Fein appears and tell
us whether or not that is your signature.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I am not going into it, sir.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness either
answer the question or be obliged to invoke those provisions of the
fifth amendment which endow him with the privilege of not giving
testimony which could be used against him in a criminal proceeding.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered and directed to answer the
question as to whether or not the photostatic copy of the signature
a])pearing upon the document is a true and correct copy of your
signature.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I shall invoke the fifth. I shall invoke the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Arens. You invoke those parts of the fifth amendment which
endow you with the privilege of not incriminating yourself?

Mr. Fein. That is right. "

Mr. Arens. I display to you, if you please, sir, a photostatic copy
of another nominating petition of the Communist Party, in which
the signature of David Fein appears at a little later date, in which
one Mary Himoff, according to the document, is a candidate for the
State Senate of New York on the Communist Party ticket, and we
observe the name here the signature of one, David Fein.

Kindly look at this document and accommodate us, if you please,
sir, by telling us whether or not that signature, David Fein, is a true
and correct reproduction of your signature.

C?OMMTJ]SrilST ACTIVITIEiS m THE NEW EQSTGLAND AREA 2235

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. Again I might point out that the date here is 1940. It
is beyond the time during wliich I wish to talk about anything about
myself. It is not pertinent to the present investigation and oesides
that I invoke the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that each of the
last two documents be appropriately marked and incorporated by
reference in this record.

Mr. Moulder. The documents referred to by counsel will be so
marked.

(Documents marked "Fein Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2," respectively, and
retained in committee files.)

Mr. Arens. Did you in 1940 live at 1306 Chisholm Street?

Mr. Fein. This is not pertinent to the investigation, and I don't
see why I need to answer that.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only reason you are giving in response to
my question ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Fein. I decline on the same grounds as previously.

Mr. Arens. Now, I should like to display to you, if you please, sir,
a third document, a photostatic copy of a Communist Party nominat-
ing petition some two years later, 1942, in which the signature of David
Fein appears, nominating, among others, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn for
Congress, Israel Amter for Governor, Benjamin J. Davis, Jr., for At-
torney General, etc. The address of David Fein at this time is given
as 593 Amsterdam Avenue, Manhattan, New York.

Kindly look at that document and accommodate us, if you please,
sir, by telling us whether or not that is a true and correct copy of
your signature.

(Document handed to the witness.)

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline on the same grounds. It is in the year 1942.

(Document marked "Fein Exhibit No. 3" and retained in committee
files.)

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time
you signed these documents ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. Break up that question into two parts.

Mr. Arens. Very glad to do so.

Mr. Fein. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. The answer is no.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Fein. The answer is I decline.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party five years
ago?

Mr. Fein. No.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party six years
ago?

2236 CX)MMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW EN<3LAND AREA

Mr. Fein. I decline to answer.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party five and a
half years ago ?

Mr. Fein. I decline to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party January
of 1953?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party February
1953?

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Arens. After which date can you assert, while you are Under
oath, that you were not a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline to answer that question.

Mr. Arens. Then we will do it the hard way.

Were you a member of the Communist Party in March 1953 ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Fein. I have been living in New Hampshire since about approxi-
mately September of 1953, and I am prepared to talk about myself
since that time but not prior to that time.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in August
1953?

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline to answer.

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time since August 1953 been under
Communist Party discipline though not a technical member of the
apparatus ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been expelled from the Communist
Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Arens. Have you contributed any money to the Communist
Party since August 1953 ?

Mr. Fein. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ?

Mr. Fein. That is an opinion that I do not wish to discuss.

Mr. Arens. Have you taken any steps, affirmative steps, in under-
taking to combat the Communist Party since 1953 ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. That is a matter of private business into which

Mr. Arens. I will rephrase the question so that there will be no
question about it.

Have you taken any overt acts against the Communist Party since
August of 1953?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. This is still part of my private affair and still not within
the scope of this hearing today.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest now the witness
be ordered and directed to answer that question. The record is abun-

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2237

dantly clear. I have not been asking for any exercise of opinion,
appraisal, or judgment; I have asked him only with respect to overt
acts since August of 1953.

Mr. Moulder. The committee orders and directs the witness to
answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I don't recollect whether I have or not.

Mr. IvEARNEY. What was that answer ?

Mr. Arens. He doesn't recollect.

Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time during
your undergraduate work?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever served in the Armed Forces of the
United States?

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time ?

Mr. Fein. Approximately 2 years.

Mr. Arens. When ?

Mr. Fein. January 1944 to December 1945.

Mr. Arens. During the period of time that you were in the Armed
Forces of the United States, were you a member of the Communist
Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Arens. Why?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. On the grounds of the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you presently, sir, have information respecting
persons who in the course of the last 5 or 6 years, to your certain
knowledge, have been members of the Communist Party in the New
England area ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I decline.

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question here?

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Kearney is recognized.

Mr. Kearney. After your service in the Armed Forces of the
United States, did you go to school under the GI Bill of Rights ?

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kearney. The reason I iisk you that question is because of your
declination to answer as to whether or not you were a member of the
Communist Party while you were in the Armed Forces. I offered
several amendments to prevent members of the Communist Party from
obtaining an education under that bill, and I will say that I am proud
to have been one of the authors of it. If I had my way no members of
the Communist Party would have been educated under that bill.

Mr. Doyle. I think it is fair to let the witness know that the gentle-
man who just asked you that question is the Past National Commander
of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States of America,
Mr. Kearney.

Mr. Arens. Will you now furnish in public testimony before the
Committee on Un-American Activities so that this committee may
recommend legislation to protect this country, under whose flag you

2238 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

have protection, such information as you may possess respecting Com-
munists, Communist Party activities, to your certain knowledge in
the course of the last five or six years?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I know nothing about Communist activities witliin the
last five years, and prior to that I have declined to answer.

Mr. Arens. Have you taught any place other than at the school
where you are presently engaged, the Lowell Technological Institute ?

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Where did you teach ?

Mr. Fein. New England College.

Mr. Aeens. And when did you teach there ?

Mr. Fein. From about 1953 to 1956, thereabouts, sir.

Mr. Arens. Have you taught at any other college ?

Mr. Fein. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. What courses did you teach? Could you please tell
us that, sir ?

Mr. Fein. Physics, mathematics, a course in electrical engineering.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the International
Workers Order ?

Mr. Fein. I decline on the grounds of the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether the International Workers Order
is still functioning ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I don't know whether it is still functioning or not.

Mr. Arens. Did you ever have any information regarding the lead-
ership of the International Workers Order ?

Mr. Fein. I do not.

Mr. Arens. Were you at any time a member of the International
Workers Order?

Mr. Fein. No.

Mr. Arens. If the Committee on Un-American Activities should
initiate proceedings whereby you would be granted immunity from
criminal prosecution based upon any testimony you would give to this
committee respecting communism or Communists, and if those pro-
ceedings should become consummated so you would be granted the
immunity, would you then fully and freely disclose to this committee
of the United States Congress such information which you possess
or might possess respecting communism and Communists ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. That, sir, is a question I can't tell. It would have to
depend on the circumstances surrounding the given situation. As
you understand a physicist is that way.

Mr. Arens. JNIr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con-
clude the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, have you any questions?

Mr. Doyle. Since August 1953 have you attended any meetings
or groups, large or small in number

Mr. Fein. I have not, sir.

Mr. Doyle. I haven't finished my question yet. Professor in

which you knew there were other members of the Communist Party
present?

Mr. Fein. Would you mind repeating that? I am a bit confused.

COMMUlSniST ACTTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2239

Mr. Doyle. Since August 1953, have you attended group meet-
ings, either large or small numerically, in which you knew there were
personally present Communists, known to you to be Communists at
the time ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. No, sir.

Mr. Doyle. That is all.

Mr. Moulder. General Kearney, have you any questions ?

Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Mcintosh ?

Mr. McIntosh. I have no questions.

JSIr. Moulder. I have only one question to ask you.

Mr. Fein. Yes, sir.

Mr. Moulder. That is whether or not you favor and support the
pliilosophy and objectives of the Communist Party.

Mr. Fein. That, sir, is a speculative question. You are asking
me an opinion. I don't choose to go into any discussion of these
opinions.

Mr. Moulder. Do you favor or oppose the objectives of the Soviet
T^iiion in its undertaking, its future objective of dominating and con-
trolling the people of the world by slavery of communism?

Mr. Fein. I do not.

Mr. Moulder. You do not favor that ?

Mr. Fein. That is right. I do not favor that.

Mr. McIntosh. TVHiat is so obvious about that ?

Mr. Fein. Well, I still think I am an American. I still owe
allegiance to this country.

Mr. McIntosh. Do you really think we should recognize that as
an obvious answer on your part?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. Well, I don't think I would like to pursue that any
further. I will leave that up to the committee.

Mr. Moulder. Maybe I didn't make mj^ question so clear.

Would you prefer the form of government that we live under to
that of the form of government of the Soviet Union ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. That, sir, is a matter of private opinion into which I
don't have to go into.

Mr. Moulder. Then you are declining to answer for what reason ?

Mr. Fein. I beg pardon? I didn't get the question.

]\Ir. Moulder, You say 3'ou decline to answer ?

Mr. Fein. Well, it is a speculative question, sir.

]Mr. Moulder. It is a verj' simple question. Would you prefer the
Soviet Union form of government to be substituted in lieu of the
form of government that we now enjoy in our country?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. No.

Mr. Moulder. Thank you.

Proceed, Mr. Doyle.

Mr. Doyle, May I ask one more question ?

You impress me as a person who had a wonderful educational ad-
vantage and benefit.

Mr. Fein. Thank you, sir.

2240 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. D0Y1.E. "V\niy don't 3^011 help us by ^oing back prior to August
1953 and helping us to learn what j^ou can tell us about how the Com-
munist Party operates in infiltrating and trying to get control of
groups or operating in educational circles ? I know what the law is.
I am not expected, as a matter of law, to draw any legal inference by
reason of your answer that you made restricting yourself to August
1953. But at the same time I know you expect me as one man to
another to comprehend that prior to August 1953 there was a period
of years when you did have, did gain information which would help
us in our responsibilities.

Why don't you help us as much as you can instead of pulling that
curtain down at that point ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. Sir, if I knew of anyone who had done wrong, who had
tried to perform any act inimicable to these United States, I would
have been the first man to inform, I think, on that.

Mr. Doyle. I am not insinuating or mf erring that you did or
anyone did in your presence. I do recognize that for a term of years
you have been in possibly a very sensitive vocation. You are getting
more into a sensitive area, I take it.

I am on the Armed Services Committee so I know a little bit about
that subject.

But I am aware as man to man that there was a period prior to
August 1953 in which you had some contacts with some people about
whom you don't want to speak and give any information to your own
Congress. I assume for the purposes of this question that I am not
entirely in error from what record we have about you that it was in
connection with some people you knew about as Communists.

Now, what did they do in their activity prior to August 1953? I
am not insinuating that you were trying to bring on a forceful revolu-
tion, nor am I assuming that those that you knew in the Communist
Party were also trying to brmg on a forceful revolution. But how
did they infiltrate, how did they organize, how did they function?

Even in the Armed Forces You might have known some men

who were in uniform, you see.

Is that a fair statement to you ? Wliy don't you help us ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Fein. I am sorry, sir, but I have declined previously to answer
any questions in that area and I must respectfully submit

Mr, Doyle. I hope you will come to the time when the interests of
your own Nation become more important than your own personal
privilege.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, before calling the next witness, may I
make an announcement?

Yesterday a Mr. Charles Newell was identified by Mr. Penha as a
person laiown by him to be a Communist. For the purpose of
further clarification I want to make the record clear that the Charles
Newell who was identified as a Communist is a person who has been
a UE organizer and is presently on the West Coast. It is our in-
formation that there is another Charles Newell presently living in
this comnmnity, N-e-w-e-1-1, of the same name, who is not to be con-
fused with the Charles Newell who was identified yesterday as a
Communist.

COIVIMTJNIIST ACnVITIEtS IN THE NEW ENGLAIiD AREA 2241

Now, Mr. Chairman, if you please, with the pleasure of the com-
mittee, I should like to call the next witness, Mr. Manuel Cordeiro.

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman
administers the oath to you.

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which
you are about to give before this committee of the United States
Congress will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?

Mr. Cordeiro. I do.

TESTIMONY OP MANUEL CORDEIRO, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, GABRIEL KANTROVITZ

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Cordeiro. Manuel Cordeiro, Jr., 234 Vermont Avenue, West
Roxbury. I am a clerk-typist.

Mr. Arens. Where, please, sir ?

Mr. Cordeiro. D. C. Andrews and Company, here in Boston.

Mr. Arens. Give us a word of the nature of the occupation as a
clerk-typist. What does the company do ?

Mr. Cordeiro. My company is an export firm.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties?

Mr. Cordeiro. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

Mr. Kantrovitz. Gabriel Kantrovitz, 294 Washington Street, Bos-
ton.

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ?

Mr. Cordeiro. I have been at D. C. Andrews for about 7 months now.

Mr._ Moulder. Would you speak into the microphone, directly into
the microphone ? We will be able to hear you better.

Mr. Arens. And what was your employment immediately preced-
ing your present employment ?

Mr. Cordeiro. I worked at the Colonial Tanning Company for
about 3 years.

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?

Mr. Cordeiro. As a clerk-typist in their export department.

Mr. Abens. Do you know a man by the name of Douglas Perry ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Armando Penha ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
following grounds :

I respectfully decline to answer that question by availing myself of
my constitutional privilege as set forth in the first amendment guar-
anteeing me freedom of associations ; my right to do so has been clearly
set forth by the Supreme Court in the Watkins decision; in its de-
nouncement of these intrusions into the lives and affairs of private
citizens, the Supreme Court has definitely ruled that this committee

2242 COMMUNIST activities in the new ENGLAND AREA

has no general authority to expose the private affairs of individuals
for the mere purpose of exposure.

Mr. Akens. You said you know Douglas Perry. How do you know
him?

Mr. CoRDEiRO. Mr. Perry is married to my cousin.

Mr. Arens. Do you know him in any other capacity ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. CoRDEiRO. I knew Mr. Perry as a union organizer.

Mr. Arens. Tell us of any other way in which you have known him.
I asked how you have known him. Please, sir, tell us the full truth.
You took an oath to tell the truth. Tell us the whole truth, how you
have known him.

Mr. CoRDEiRO. I first met Mr. Perry as a union organizer, and in my
associations with him, they were as a union organizer. Then he mar-
ried my cousin so he became family.

Mr. Arens. You took an oath to tell the whole truth. Have you
told us the whole truth as to how you have laiown Douglas Perry?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. Would you kindly restate that question again,
please?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. The status of the record is this : I asked you
if you knew Douglas Perry. You responded you did know him. I
asked you in what capacity you have known him. I would like you to
tell the whole truth as to how you have known him, the various
capacities in which you have known him. Please respond to the ques-
tion. You told us one capacity was as a union organizer. Now,
complete your answer, if you please, sir.

Mr. Cordeiro. Yes. Well, as to the balance of the question I will
have to invoke the first amendment and also the fifth.

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Cordeiro. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Cordeiro. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
grounds previously stated, and also on the fifth amendment protecting
myself against self-incrimination.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party 1 year
ago?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I would prefer to invoke my privileges on that ques-
tion.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party 6 months
ago?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I am not a member of the Communist Party now.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party 6 months
ago?

Mr. Cordeiro. Now

Mr. Arens. If you please, sir, may we stay on the point ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Yes.

Mr. Arens. AYere you a member of the Communist Party 6 months
ago?

COMMUNllST ACTIVITIFaS m THJE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2243

Mr. CoRDEiRO. I would like to answer that now. I am not presently
a member of the Communist Party and in regard to time I would
invoke my privileges.

Mr. Abens. Have you been a member, and I emphasize the word
"member" of the Communist Party any time since the date on which
you were served with your subpena to appear before the Committee
on Un-American Activities ?

Mr. CoRDEiRO. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
any time in the course of the last montli ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. CoRDEiRO. The answer to that is No.

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Conununist Party any
time in the course of the last 2 months ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Again, I respectfully give the same answer I did
before. I avail myself of my constitutional privileges and I do not
wish to go into this monthly -yearly affair.

Mr. Arens. Are you presently under Communist Party discipline ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Absolutely not.

Mr. Arens. Have you been under Communist Party discipline any
time in the last 3 months ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Absolutely not.

Mr. Arens. Have you been under Communist Party discipline any
time in the course of tlie last j^ear?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con-
clude the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle ?

Mr. Doyle. Witness, were you a member of the same union, labor
local, of which Mr. Perry, who married your counsin, was organizer ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Well, we were in the process of attempting to or-
ganize, and we had no local. You understand that. We wouldn't
have the local unless the motion was carried.

Mr. Doyle. But you went with him frequently, did you not, to
different meetings, UE meetings, and he married your cousin. You
went in the automobile.

Mr. Cordeiro. I was active in the organizing or the attempting to
organize long before Mr. Perry became a member of my family.

Mr. Doyle. Oh, I see.

Mr. Penha yesterday testified that Mr. Douglas Perry was taking
the automobile and going to Communist Party meetings in different
parts of the area, and then he would charge the gas and oil expense to
go to Communist Party meetings against UE treasury. Did you ever
go to any of those meetings where Mr. Perry, well known to you,
charged the gas and oil to the union instead of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I know ]Mr. Perry is an honest individual and that
is as far as I can state for him.

Mr. Doyle. You say you knew him to be an honest individual ?

Mr. Cordeiro. I know him to be an honest individual.

Mr. Doyle. Of course, if he did what Mr. Penha said, he wasn't
very honest, was he? He was a deliberate cheat of organized union

2244 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

funds. That is what Communists are in a habit of doing with or-
ganized union labor. They get their filthy hands on union money
and appropriate it for Communist Party purposes.

Mr. CoKDEiRO. Mr.

Mr. Doyle. You do not know anything about that ?

Mr. CoRDEiEO. Mr. Doyle, I have no information into Mr. Perry's
life.

Mr. Doyle. That is probably true.

I want to say to you, young man, you are a fairly young man, I
assume from your testimony you are not in the Communist Party
now because j^ou used the word "presently" I noticed. That means
very recently you are not a member of the Communist Party.

Mr. CoRDEiRO. That is true.

Mr. Doyle. Well, you were in it one time, I am going to assume.
Why don't you make up to your country and do something posi-
tive in the best interests of your country, something to make up for
the time you were in that filthy outfit ? Why don't you do something
to strengthen the form of your own American Government, to make
up for the weakness you contributed to it during the time you were
in the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. CoRDEmo. Mr. Doyle.

Mr. DoYLE. Yes. I hoped that would provoke some answer. What
is your answer ?

Mr. CoRDEiKO. As far as serving my country and attempting to
serve it in the best of my capacity, I served in the Marine Corps.

Mr. Doyle. Congratulations.

Mr. CoRDEiRO. Thank you. From December 1951 to December —
no, let me get these dates right now. December 1951 to December
1953.

Mr. Arens. Tell the committee, please, sir, if during that period
of time when you were in the Marine Corps you were likewise a
member of the Communist Party.

Mr. Cordeiro. Would you repeat that question, please ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. Kindly tell the Congressmen whether or not
during any of that period of your service in the Marine Corps you
were likewise a member of the Communist Party.

Mr. Cordeiro, No, sir. Now, during my term in the Marine Corps
I served it to the best of my ability.

Mr. Doyle. Good.

Mr. Cordeiro. And rose to the rank of sergeant.

Mr. Doyle. Good.

Mr. Cordeiro. And was honorably released in December 1953.

Mr. DoY-LE. Good.

Mr. Cordeiro. I received a letter of commendation from my com-
manding officer, which for your information I would like to read into
the record.

Mr. Arens. Do you presently have information respecting persons

known by you to be Communists in the last 2 or 3 years in this

vicinity ?

Mr. Cordeiro. May I conclude my answer to Congressman Doyle ?

Mr. Arens. Certainly.

Mr. Cordeiro. This is a letter I received from my commanding
officer.

CX)MMU]SraST ACTIVrTTEiS IN THE ISTEW EiNGLAND AREA 2245

Mr. Doyle. Wliat date is it, please ?
Mr. CoRDEiRO. December 3, 1953.
Mr. Doyle. That is 5 years ago.
Mr. CoRDEiRO (reading) :

My dear Mr. Cordeiro : I am writing at this time to express my appreciation
of your services while attached to this squadron. Throughout your tour of
duty at Cherry Point you performed your duties in an efficient manner and
your willingness and cooperation were outstanding.

I want to personally thank you and to offer my thanks for a most excellent
job well done.

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time since you received that letter
disgraced the Marine Corps and the United States by joining an
organization, or being a part of an organization, dedicated to the
overthrow of the Government of the United States by force and
violence ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I would never do anything to disgrace the Marine
Corps.

Mr. Arens. More specifically, have you at any time since you
received that letter been a member of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. In respect to the balance of the question I have to
invoke the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. If you gave a truthful answer to that question do you
honestly apprehend you might be supplying information that could
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?

Mr. Cordeiro. Well, despite my innocence, sir, I honestly believe
that unless I avail myself of my privilege under the fifth amendment
I could possibly.

Mr. Arens. Let us clear up this word "innocence" here. Have you
been innocent of membership, affiliation, participation, activity in the
Communist conspiracy any time since you received that letter from
your commanding officer in the Marine Corps ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I respectfully decline to answer that question, invok-
ing the fifth amendment.

Mr. Kearney. Did your commanding officer know at the time he
wrote that letter to you that you had been a member of the Com-
munist Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. This letter from my commanding officer is to eval-
uate my service in the Marine Corps.

Mr. Kearney. What date is the letter?

Mr. Doyle. December 1953.

Mr. Cordeiro. Yes. December 3, 1953.

Mr. Kearney. When you were a member of the United States
Marine Corps, were you also a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. Cordeiro. No, sir.

Mr. Kearney. When were you a member of the Communist Party,
before or after yon joined the Marine Corps?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Cordeiro. I will have to respectfully decline to answer your
question.

Mr. Kearney. I thought so.

2246 OOAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Doyle. May I just ask you a question? You may not think
this is pertinent. Maybe it isn't.

I would suggest that you write your commanding officer who wrote
you that beautiful letter of commendation and tell him that you
have been asked a question whether or not you were a member of the
Communist Party at any time after you were honorably discharged
from the Marines and you tell that commanding officer what the truth
is. See V, hat he says to you. Do you get my point, young man ?

JSIr. CoRDEiRO. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. You write your commanding officer and tell him
whether or not you w^ere a member of the Connnunist Party after
he sent you tliis letter and see what he says to you. You tell the
truth to him.

Mr. Kearney. Is that an order ?

Mr. Doyle. He wouldn't be very proud of the training he gave you
in the United States Marines to have you so conduct yourself after
you got out of the Marines that you had to come in here and plead
your constitutional privilege for fear that it might incriminate you.
That isn't the kind of conduct the United States Marines trained
their boys to believe in.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any questions, Mr. Mcintosh ?

Mr. McIntosh. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any questions, General Kearney ?

Mr. Kearney. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be
Miss Olga Garczynski.

Would you kindly come forward and remain standing while the
chairman administers the oath to you?

Mr. Moulder. Would you hold up your right hand and be sworn ?

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before
this committee of the United States Congress will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

TESTIMONY OF OLGA GAECZYNSKI ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
LAWEENCE D. SHUBOW

Mr. Akens. Kindly identify yourself, by name, residence, and
occupation.

Miss Garczynski. My name is Olga Garczynski. I live at 89
Beetle Street, New Bedford, Massachusetts. My occupation is a punch
jDress operator at the Koyal Brand Cutlery Company in New Bedford

Mr. Arens. Is it Miss or Mrs. ?

Miss Garczynski. Miss.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Miss Garczynski, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?

Miss Garczynski. That is right.

Mr. Arens. And you have counsel ?

Miss Garczynski. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself?

Mr. Shubow. Lawrence D. Shubow, Boston.

COMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2247

Mr. Arens. Miss G-a-r-c-z-y-n-s-k-i.

Miss Garcztnski. It is pronounced G-a-r-s-i-n-s-k-i. Garsinski.

Mr. Arens. We would like to have you help us on a proposition
here.

I have before me a copy of New World Eeview. This New World
Review, so we have been advised, has been disseminated quite widely
over the United States. It contains an article in here by a person
known as Eulalia Figueiredo, who we understand was deported from
the United States. Do you know that person ?

Miss Garczynski. Yes, I know her. I know her as a friend and not
as a Communist.

Mr. Shubow. You mean you knew her.

Miss Garczynski. I knew her as a friend and not as a Communist.

Mr. Arens. Have you had any correspondence with her since she
was deported ?

Miss Garczynski. Yes. I have written to her through Mr. Ar-
mando Penha. Mr. Penlia had asked me to write to her. He had also
asked me to ask her to send books and different whatever things there
were and I handed it to Mr. Penha himself.

Mr. Arens. What did you procure from this person whose name
I also have difficulty pronouncing, Eulalia Figueiredo, who was de-
ported to Poland ? What have you procured from her in Poland ?

Miss Garczynski. Nothing.

What did he say ?

Mr. SiiUBOw. I think the word "procure" means did you receive
anythino- personally from her. Did you get any mail back?

Miss Garczynski. Did I get any mail back ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, ma'am.

Mr. Shubow. Did you receive any literature back?

Miss Garczynski. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Did you receive any from her

Miss Garczynski. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Any personally.

Miss Garczy^nski. Yes ; through Armando Penha. I will say that
again, because this is just exactly what he told me to do, and I am
swearing under oath and telling the truth.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us what you received from him.

Mr. Shubow. Answer the question.

Miss Garczynski. I don't remember the book.

Mr. Arens. How many books ?

Miss Garczynski. I only received one book and one paper.

Mr. Arens. When ?

Miss Garczynski. I don't remember the year.

Mr. Shubow. Approximately. Was it in the course of the last
couple of years ? Perhaps I could help you.

Miss Garczynski. I don't know whether it was 1953 or 1954, I
don't remember.

Mr. Arens. Did you receive any material from her for publication
in the United States ?

Miss Garczynski. Not that I remember ; no. I don't know of any.

Mr. Arens. Did you receive an article from her entitled "In a
Polish Cotton Mill"?

2477T— 58— pt.

2248 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AR'E'A

Miss Garczynski. That is the one book that came right to the home,
mailed right to the house.

Mr. Arens. What did 3-011 do with it ?

Miss Garczynski. I gave it to Mr. Penha.

Mr. Arens. Did you transmit this article or a copy of this article
to the New World Keview for publication ?

Miss Garczynski. No, sir, I didn't.

Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the
Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. Excuse me. Would you please repeat that?

Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the
Communist Party ?

Miss Garczynski. I am not now a Communist; no. I have never
been — I am not now a Communist.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski (continuing). I am not now a member of the
Communist Party.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. I was brought into the Communist Party by Mr.
Penha.

Mr. Arens. When?

Miss Garczynski. In February 1953 and he was courting me at the
time.

Mr. Arens. And how long did you remain in the Communist Party ?

Miss Garczynski. Until 1956.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership in the Com-
munist Party to w-hat cells or fractions or units of the Communist
Party were you attached ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. Whatever Mr. Penha told me to go to, I went.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member- at-large or were you a member of
some cell of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred w-ith her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. I don't Imow.

Mr. Arens. Did you resign from the Communist Party ?

Miss Garczynski. Not that I know. I don't belong to the Com-
munist Party.

Mr. Arens. I perhaps misunderstood you. I thought you said

Miss Garczynski. I said I was a member of the Communist Party
in 1953, but I never belonged to any Communist Party. I never
believed in communism.

Mr. Arens. Did you join the Communist Party at the behest of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

Miss Garczynski. After the Federal Bureau of Investigation

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski, Mr. Penha invited me to go to meetings.

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. Penha recruit you into the party ?

Miss Garczynski. He dragged me into this mess. I will tell you
that. If it wasn't by him I would never be in this mess.

Mr. Arens. Did you resign from the Communist Party ?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIElS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2249

Miss Garczynski. I just — he didn't come up to tlie house any more
after 1953 — after the beginning of 1957 he stopped coming. So that
was the end of whatever dirty work that he wanted me to do.

Mr. Arens. Did you pay dues to the Communist Party ?

Miss Garczynski. I didn't pay dues.

Mr. Arens. Did j^ou participate in activities of the Communist
l^arty?

Miss Garczynski. They participate ?

Mr. Arens. Did you engage in activities of the Communist Party ?
Did you do Communist Party work ?

Miss Garczynski. No.

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. I am just so nervous.

Mr, Shubow. Sir, I think we have forgotten a question, not for-
gotten but lost track of it.

Mr. Arens. The question was, I asked her if she paid dues, had
been a member, and any activities she engaged in in the Communist
Party.

Miss Garczynski. This last question, may I say what was it again ?

Mr. Arens. Wliat did you do as a Communist ?

Miss Garczynski. Whatever Mr. Penha told me to do.

Mr. Arens. What did he tell you to do ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. He had brought books to my house and that one
book you had shown me, that New World Review, he had brought that
and some other books and he also had bought them from me and
had also taken money from me.

Mr. Arens. Did you, yourself, do anything as a Communist ?

(The witness conferred with her counsel.)

Miss Garczynski. I went to the meetings that he told me to go.

Mr. Arens. And where were those, please ?

^The witness conferred with her counsel.)

(No response.)

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest this witness now
be temporarily excused from the witness stand but be continued under
subpena, subject to call.

Mr. Doyle. Does the witness understand ?

Miss Garczynski. Wliy is that for ? Being subpenaed again ?

Mr. Doyle. You are not being subpenaed again but your subpena
is being continued over.

Miss Garczynski. Until tomorrow? Until when? What is it?
Today, tomorrow or

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute, Witness.

Mr. Arens. I will say continue her under subpena, if you please,
Mr. Chairman, for the duration of our stay here in Boston, for the
purpose of enabling the investigators of the staif to check out certain
information and perhaps if it meets with the pleasure of the com-
mittee, having a staff interview with this witness. It is obvious to me
she either does not understand the questions or the type of informa-
tion which we are seeking to elicit from her, she just does not possess.
We do not want to waste the time either of the committee or the
witness.

2250 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Miss Garczynski. Excuse me, Mr. Director, is it because you want
to ask our man Penha and ask him whether I am lying over here or
what ? Ask him how long he courted me. Ask him how long he used
me — I don't know what you would call it. When I came home from
California in 1951 I was a free citizen and a good citizen and I am
still now until he came into my life. And I am telling the God's
honest truth and I will swear on a thousand Bibles.

Mr. DoTLE. We will continue your subpena throughout these hear-
ings, Madam. Our staff may want to question you in order to make
clearer than apparently it is now to you. And so that will be the
direction.

Miss Garczynski. Until what time? Tomorrow, do I come in
liere?

Mr. Doyle. We will not fix a time for you tomorrow. We will be
here anyway the rest of this week.

Mr. Moulder. Did I understand the witness is subject to recall?

The subpena served upon you will remain in full force and effect
and you will be subject to recall by the committee at any time.

The witness is excused temporarily.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the next
witness be Mr. Harold L. Lewengrub.

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman
administers the oath to you.

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you
are about to give before this committee of the United States Congress
will be the truth, the whole ti'utli, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD LESTER LEWENGRUB, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, WILLIAM P. HOMANS, JR.

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Lewengrub. My name is Harold Lester Lewengrub. And I
live at 68 Lawrence Avenue, Roxbury, and I am a clothing worker.

Mr. Arens. Where ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, would you tell me how this question is perti-
nent to the subject matter ?

Mr. Arens. Yes. In brief, for the purpose of identification please
tell the committee where you are employed.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Tremont Clothing Company.

Mi\ Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

Mr. HoMANS. My name is William P. Homans, Jr. I have offices
at 1 Court Street, in Boston, Massachusetts.

COMMUlSrilST ACnVITIES EST THE NEW EOSTGLADST) AREA 2251

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present
place of employment ?

Mr. Leavengrub. I have been in the clothing industry since 1928.

Mr. Arens. How about employed at your present place of employ-
ment ?

Mr. Moulder. We can't hear the answers given by the witness, Mr.
Arens.

Mr. Lewengrtjb. Since I believe 1947.

Mr. Arens. Has that been your sole occupation since 1947, your sole
gainful occupation ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Eileen Breen ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, I would like to object to this question on the
grounds that the resolution under which this committee functions is
too vague and broad under the holdings of the Watkins v. United
/States decision.

Mr. Moulder. The witness cannot object to the question. Are you
declining to answer the question for some reason? If so, you can
decline to answer and state your reasons why you decline.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. TjEwengrub. Sir, would you tell me why or how this question is
pertinent ?

Mr. Moulder. Advise the witness, if you will, Mr. Arens.

Mr. Arens. The Committee on Un-American Activities is undertak-
ing to develop factual information to enable this committee to recom-
mend legislation to protect this Nation under whose flag you have pro-
tection against the operation of this Godless, atheist Communist con-
spiracy that is threatening to destroy tlie world. As a part of that
accumulation of factual material we want to get as much material as
we can on espionage and on sabotage and on underground operations
of this conspiratorial operation.

We have been advised and we want to interrogate you about that

at one time you were a driver, a courier for this operation and that in
the process of your functions as a courier for this operation you used
an automobile that was the property of one Eileen Breen and now we
would like to ask you about it, so if we could get information from you
we can take that information back to Washington, stack it up with
other information that we have been accumulating over this Nation,
for the purposes of considering, perhaps recommending legislation to
strengthen the laws of this Nation against the underground operations
of this conspiratorial Communist operation.

Kindly tell us now, sir, if you know a person by the name of Eileen
Breen.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Would you kindly state the question again?

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or have you ever known, a person by the
name of Eileen Breen ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, I would like to at this time avail myself of the
first amendment in regards to association, freedom of association.

Mr. Arens. Do you have another reason ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Reason for what?

2252 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Arens. For declining to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Le-wengrub. Sir, may I have a ruling on this objection?

Mr, Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not
he knows or has Iniown Eileen Breen.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is ordered and directed to answer the
question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr, Arens. Mr. Chairman, I do not think the committee should be
obliged to wait forever for an answer. We have explained to the
witness the pertinency of the question. He has refused to answer
the question. He has invoked the first amendment. He has been
directed to answer the question. He still declines to answer it. I
propose to ask him another question and let the consequences come
as they may.

Kindly tell this committee if you had any other gainful employment
in the last ten years, other than the employment in the clothing
industry,

Mr. HoMANS. May the record show the witness was not given an
opportunity to consider the last question?

Mr. Arens. Counsel, you have been advised, sir, that under the rules
of this committee your sole and exclusive prerogative is to advise your
client.

Mr. HoMANS. I am directed to protect my clients rights, also.

Mr. Arens. Kindly answer the question.

Mr. Lewengrttb. State the question again.

Mr. Arens. The question is: Have you had any gainful employ-
ment or occupation, sir, in the course of the last five years, other than
your employment in the clothing industry ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrttb. No.

Mr. Arens. Have you received payment for services of any kind
performed by yourself

Mr. Lewengrttb. No.

Mr. Arens. in the last five years, other than your services in

the clothing industry?

Mr. Lewengrttb. No, sir.

(At this point Mr. Kearney left the hearing room.)

Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Sidney Lip-
shires ?

Mr. Lewengrttb. Sir, I decline to answer on the grounds of the
first amendment.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer the question ; and to make the record
abundantly clear I will explain to you now it is our information,
among other things, that you have been a driver in the underground
for one Sidney Lipshires who was the successor of Mike Russo as the
head of a certain part of the apparatus of the Communist conspiracy
in this area.

Now, sir, kindly answer the question. Do you know, or have you
known, Sidney Lipshires ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

COMMIHSTEST ACTTVlTIEiS IN THE ISTEW EiNGLAND AREA 2253

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, I take my privilege under the fifth amend-
ment.

Mr. Arens. Under the fifth amendment ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you own an automobile ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of the last 5 years used your
automobile for courier purposes in the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. I didn't get that question. Will you x^lease restate
it?

Mr. Arens. Have you used your automobile for courier purposes
in the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, I will have to utilize my privilege under the
fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. The fifth amendment ; is that correct ?

Mr. Lewengrub. [Nods affirmatively.]

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, I wish to use my

Mr. Moulder. Speak louder, so we can hear what you are sajang,
please.

Mr. Lewengrub. I want to utilize the first amendment on the ques-
tion of association, and also the fifth amendment.

]Mr. Moulder. I didn't understand what your response was.

Mr. Lewengrub. That I take my privilege under the first amend-
ment in regards to association plus my privilege under the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. Were you in the military service from 1943 to 1945 ?

Mr. Le\vengrub. Yes.

Mr. Arens. During that period of time were you a member of the
Communist conspiracy ?

Mr. Lewengrub. I refuse to answer that question on tlie grounds of
the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Did you have a commision in the Army ?

Mr. Lewengrub. I was promoted if that is what — no — I had no — I
wasn't an officer.

JNIr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Armando Penha ?

Mr. Lewengrub. I want to adopt my privilege under the first
amendment.

Mr. Arens. Under what?

Mr. Lewengrub. First amendment.

(At this point Mr. Kearney returned to the hearing room.)

Mr. Arens. You are not invoking the fifth amendment ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Lewengrub. Just the first amendment.

Mr. Arens. I merely want tlie record to be clear.

I now respectfully request, Mr. Chairman, that the witness be ordered
and directed to answer the question as to whether or not he knows
Armando Penha, the man who testified yesterday.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is so ordered and directed to answer the
question.

Mr. Lewengrub. Then I will have to take my privilege under the
fifth amendment.

2254 C50MRIUN1ST ACnVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND ABE'A

Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha yesterday testified under oatli, laid his lib-
erty on the line, because if he lied to this committee, he will be prose-
cuted along with anyone else — he said that he was an undercover agent
for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This man has told us in
session after session about your activities in the Communist conspira-
torial underground apparatus.

I should like to ask you now : Are you now, or have you been in the
course of the recent past, an instrumentality of the underground appa-
ratus in this vicinity of the Communist conspiracy ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir ; I don't know what you mean by underground
apparatus.

Mr. Arens. Let us probe that a little and see. Maybe we can help
your recollection. It is the information of this committee, which has
been amply, abundantly verified, by perhaps thousands and tens of
thousands of words during the course of the last several months, that
there has been an underground apparatus of the Communist Party
here in the New England area. One Mike Russo was at one time
one of the leaders of it. Sidney Lipshires was one time one of the lead-
ers of it. It was part of the Communist Party that was not on the
surface. At the present time about 90 percent below the ground,
withdrawn, secreted. It is the information of this committee that you
were part of that apparatus. Kindly deny it while you are under oath
if you care to do so.

Mr. Lewengrub. Sir, I wish to avail myself of the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Do you have a better explanation now or understanding
of what we mean by the term "underground" ?

Mr. Lew^engrub. Well, I believe so.

Mr. Arens. You have had that understanding right along; have
you not ?

Mr. Lewengrub. It is a question of opinion.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Doyle, do you have a question ?

Mr. Doyle. Witness, you have been here in the courtroom all after-
noon, have you not, with your counsel ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. You have been there in the front row, there on the left.
I am sure I saw you there. So you heard our director, Mr. Arens, who
just questioned you, when he explained to the 4 or 5 witnesses who
preceded you what this hearing was about. You heard him explain
that to each of those 4 or 5 witnesses, did you not ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. So that when you asked him to explain the pertinency
of this investigation and these questions, you had already heard him
explain to 4 or 5 other witnesses what the investigation was about had
you not ?

Mr. Lewengrub. I had heard it.

Mr, Doyle. Sure. The reason I asked you this question is in that
prepared statement which you read you referred to the Watkins de-
cision. Had you ever read the Watkins decision ?

Mr. Lewengrub. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. You have? I thought so. That is why I asked you
this question because I was quite sure that you had read it and your

COMMUNIST ACmVmEiS m THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2255

question about pertinency is mentioned in that decision, as you know.
And I wanted to have the record speak clearly so that if it goes to court
it will show in the court record that you had heard this question of
pertinency described in detail to four or five other witnesses just be-
fore you took the witness chair between 2 : 30 and 5 : 00 when you were
called, so there is no need of Mr. Arens again taking time to explain
to you because you heard it explained four to six times.

Now, one more question : You heard what Mr. Arens, our director,
said that Mr. Penha swore under oath about you using an automobile
as a courier or to transport people for the Communist Party in this
area. Was Mr. Penha telling the truth or was he telling a lie ?

Now, answer that question. Your counsel is right by your side. He
can advise you as to your constitutional rights. Here is a free and
open opportunity with legal advice right by you to come right clean
and clear in your own community and tell for the record under oath
whether or not Mr. Penha was lymg or telling the truth. Which was
he doing ?

Mr. Lewengrub. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
of the first amendment.

Mr. DoTLE. Of course that does not deal with associations, does it?

We are asking you to tell whether or not he was lying or telling the
truth.

Mr. Lewengrub. That would indicate whether I know him or not.

Mr. Doyle. What?

Mr. Lewengrub. That would indicate Avhether I know him or not.

Mr. Doyle. You do not suppose we are entirely uninformed, do you ?
We would not be asking you some of these questions if we did not
know some of the answers ahead of time. Yon cannot entirely fool us.

That is all, Mr. Witness.

Mr. Moulder. Are there any other questions? General Kearney,
have you any questions ?

Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

I want to inquire of counsel the names of witnesses, and I suggest
he announce in the hearing room at this time, the names of the wit-
nesses he wishes to appear at 7 : 30 p. m. this evening.

Mr. Arens. May I first ask, Mr. Chairman, if Miss or Mrs. Kitty
Heck is in the hearing room ?

A subpena was issued for her. We have not heard from the United
States Marshal, in that particular instance, whether a subpena has
been served, so we are at a loss whether or not she is here.

Mr. Chairman, it is our plan to call three witnesses this evening —
Daniel Boone Schirmer and James Rex. Thereafter it is our inten-
tion that Armando Penha resume the stand this evening and we hope
that if it meets with the approval of the committee, to conclude with
him this evening.

Mr. Moulder. Are the persons named in the hearing room?

Mr. Rex. Mr. Chairman, I am James Rex. I live in Fall River.
If I stay over for this meeting tonight I won't be able to get back to
Fall River and I am without the funds to stay overnight in Boston.

Would I be taken care of with funds, with hotel bills?

Mr. Moulder. You may come around and testify if you will take
the witness stand at this time.

2256 OOMMXTNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Rex. Yes, any time.

Mr. jNIoulder. Just come aromid and be sworn. Hold up your
right hand.

Mr. Rex. May I consult a moment with an attorney ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Rex. I wish to affirm.

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly affirm that the testimony you are
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth?

Mr. Rex. I do.

TESTIMONY OF JAMES EEX, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
WILLIAM P. HOMANS, JE.

Mr. Aeens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.

Mr. Rex. May I consult my attorney ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr, Rex. My name is James Rex. I live at 476 Cambridge Street,
Fall River, Mass. I am retired and do part-time sales work.

Mr. Arens. You are aj^pearing today in response to a siibpena which
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities?

Mr. Rex. Yes.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mr. Rex. Yes, I am.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you please identify yourself on this
record ?

Mr. HoMANS. William P. Homans, Jr. I am of Boston.

At this point I would like to say that this client was referred to me
by the Boston Bar Association which has been attempting to find
counsel for him all day and, as I understand it, yesterday. I have not
had an opportunity to consult with my client, and I am representing
him at the request of the Boston Bar Association without charge.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Rex, are you now a member of the Communist
Party?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Rex. I refuse to answer the question, sir, on the grounds that it
might tend to incriminate or degrade me — the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. What is a mail drop ? Can you help us on that ?

Mr. Rex. What is a mail drop ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir ; do you know ?

Mr. Rex. Never heard of it.

Mr. Arens. Your home has been used as a mail drop for the Com-
munist Party, has it not ?

Mr. Rex. I don't know what a mail drop is. Would you define a
mail drop ?

Mr. Arens. Has your home been used as a place where Communist
Party directives have been processed from one area of the United
States to another?

Mr. Rex. I decline to answer the question on the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. To what organizations do you belong — of a non-
Communist, nonsensitive, innocent variety ?

Mr. Rex. None.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2257

Mr. Kearney. What organizations do you belong to of a sensitive
nature ?

Mr. Rex. None that I know of .

Mr. Kearney. Are you a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Rex. I have already refused to answer that question, sir, on
the grounds of the fifth amendment.

Mr, Arens. Did you serve in the United States military ?

Mr. Rex. I have.

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time, sir ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Rex. Yes, sir. I have been a member of the armed services,
a volunteer member of the armed services, the United States Navy
in the First World War. I was honorably discharged as a first-class
machinists mate torpedo man on July 1, 1920.

Mr. Arens. During any of that period of time were you a member
of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Rex. At that time there was no Communist Party in the United
States that I ever heard of.

Mr. Arens. Is that the only military service which you have had ?

Mr. Rex. That is the only military service that I have ever had.

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Armando Penha ?

Mr. Rex. Do you mean the man that was castigated here as the
man who was two-timing his wife from this chair here a few minutes
ago ? Is that the man you are referring to ?

Mr. Arens. Kindly answer the question, sir. Do you know a man
by the name of Armando Penha ?

Mr. Rex. Which Penha are you referring to? Which address?
"Wliere does he live ? Where does he live ?

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead and talk.

Mr. Rex. I am not talking at all. I am asking you where does he
live.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer the question whether or not he knows
a person by the name of Armando Penha.

Mr. MoTJLDER. The witness is ordered and directed to answer the
question. Do you know anyone by that name regardless of where
he lived ?

Mr. Rex. I would like to know where he lived. There might be
several Armando Penhas.

Mr. Arens. Do you know of any ?

Mr. Rex. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth
amendment.

Mr. Arens. Armando Penha testified he knew you as a Communist.
Was he telling the truth or was he in error in that testimony ?

Mr. Rex. It is my opinion that a man that two-times his wife would
be distrustful on anything.

Mr. Arens. Then would you kindly stand up like a red-blooded
American and deny the identification of yourself as a member of the
Communist conspiracy while you are under oath ?

Mr. Rex. I will not do that.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that that con-
cludes the staff interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Rex. Thank you, sir.

2258 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Chairman, in the blue book here it says something about re-
muneration for expenses for coming up here. How do I take care of
that?

Mr. Moulder. You sign a vouclier and you will receive a witness
fee by signing the voucher.

Who are the other witnesses to appear this evening ?

Mr. Arens. Just two others. Daniel Boone Schirmer, if you please,
Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Penha will appear this evening.

Mr. Moulder. Are both of the parties named here ?

Mr. Whiteside. Mr. Schirmer is here.

Mr. Schirmer. I am here, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Moulder. The committee will recess until 7 : 30 p. m.

(Wliereupon, at 5 : 35 p. m., Wednesday, March 19, 1958, the sub-
committee recessed to reconvene at 7 : 30 p. m. the same day.)

EVENING SESSION, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 19, 1958

(Committee members present: Representatives Moulder, Doyle,
Kearney, and Mcintosh.)

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.

Call the first witness.

Mr. Arens. Daniel B. Schirmer, kindly come forward.

And may I ask, Mr. Chairman, is there some way these lights can
be turned up a little bit, Mr. Marshal.

Mr. Whiteside. We didn't mean those lights, Mr. Counsel.

Mr. Schirmer. I would rather not have television, sir.

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you
are about to give before this committee of the United States Congress
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?

Mr. Schirmer. I do.

Mr. Moulder. Be seated.

TESTIMONY OF DANIEL B. SCHIRMER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
HOWARD S. WHITESIDE

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.

Mr. Schirmer. My name is Daniel B. Schirmer. I live at 35 Fay-
ston Street, Roxbury, and my occupation is salesman.

Mr. Arens. For what organizations, please, sir ?

Mr. Schirmer. I am self-employed.

Mr. Arens. In what type of work?

Mr. Schirmer. Sales.

Mr. Arens. What do you sell ?

Mr, Schirmer. A common household item.

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Schirmer, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?

Mr. Schirmer. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?

Mr. Schirmer. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.

COMMUN'IIST ACTIVmEiS EN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2259

Mr. Whiteside. My name is Howard S. Whiteside, with offices at
30 State Street, Boston.

Mr. Arens, Mr, Schirmer, for the purposes of identification, kindly
tell us, have you ever used any name other than the name Daniel B.
Schirmer ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. Mr. Director, I refuse to answer that on the grounds
( hat I will not be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you told this
committee truthfully whether or not you had ever used any name
or gone under any name other than the name Daniel B. Schirmer you
would be supplying information which might be used against you in
a criminal proceeding?

Mr. Schirmer. My conscience is completely clear of any wrong-
doing, but to answer might provide a link in a chain of evidence that
might be used against me in some proceeding.

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us now, please sir, a word about your early
life, where and when were you born?

Mr. Schirmer. I was born in Greenwich, Connecticut, on February
22, 1915.

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education, please sir.

Mr. Schirmer. I graduated from Harvard College in 1937 with a
BA.

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly trace for us the principal employments
you have had since completing your formal education?

Mr. Schirmer. I refuse to answer on the grounds I will not be a
witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Wliat was your first principal employment after you
concluded your formal education at Harvard in 1937 ?

Mr. Schirmer. Again I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. How long did that first principal employment endure?

Mr. Schirmer. I decline to answer. I will not be a witness against
myself.

Mr. Arens. Please tell us about the second principal employment
you had since you completed your education at Harvard University.

Mr. Schirmer. I will not be a witness against myself, Mr. Director.

Mr. Arens. Do you mean by that to convey the position that if
you would answer the question truthfully while you are under oath
you would be supplying information which might be used against you
in a criminal proceeding?

Mr. Schirmer. Again I must say that my conscience is completely
clear, that this might provide a link in the chain of evidence that
could be used in an unjust proceeding against me.

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present place
of employment ?

Mr. Schirmer, About two — rather, I have been working as a sales-
man, let's put it that way, self-employment for about two years.

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of the article w^hich you sell?

Mr. Schirmer. As I said, Mr. Director, it is a common household
item, and it has absolutely and completely no relationship to the
Communist Party or to communism; therefore I believe its precise
nature is irrelevant to the proceedings.

2260 coMMTnsnsT activities in the new England area

Mr. Arens. Is it an article that you sell from house to house or do
you sell to brokers or merchants ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. My commercial relations, sir, have absolutely noth-
ing to do with communism or the Communist Party. Therefore, I
refuse to answer on the gromids that this question is not pertinent.

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to your
present employment?

Mr. Schirmer. Before I became self-employed, sir, as a salesman ; I
must again refuse to answer on the grounds of not wishing to become
a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. How long did the employment endure which immedi-
ately preceded your present employment ?

Mr. Schirmer. Again I must decline on the same grounds.

Mr. Arens. Have you been engaged in any employment since you
graduated from Harvard University with a BA degree in 1937
until you assumed your present employment, concerning which you
can tell the Committee on Un-American Activities without revealing
information which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. I served in the American Armed Forces from 1944
to 1946.

Mr. Arens. Did you have a commission in the Army ?

Mr. Schirmer. No, Mr. Director. I ended up as a T-4, I believe,
starting, of course, as a private.

Mr. Arens. And as a prerequisite to attaining your status as a mem-
ber of the Armed Forces of the United States did you take an oath ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr, Schirmer. I believe so, as I recall, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did that oath encompass a commitment to support and
defend the Constitution of the United States ?

Mr. Schirmer. As I recall, and I was proud and glad to take it.

Mr. Arens. Did you have any mental reservations at the time you
took that oath ?

Mr. Schirmer. None whatsoever.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of an organization devoted to the
destruction of the Constitution of the United States as of the time you
took that oath ?

Mr, Schirmer. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party as of the
time you took that oath ?

Mr. Schirmer. I must decline to answer on the grounds that I don't
wish to be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Where did you serve in the military ?

Mr. Schirmer. I was of course — I had my basic training in Ala-
bama for 13 weeks, and then I was sent to the INIediterranean theater,
to the Italian Peninsula.

Mr. Arens. During the course of your service in the Communist
Party did you report to or receive instructions from any person known
to you to be a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Schirmer. Will you please repeat the question ?

Mr. Arens. Perhaps the question may have been cumbersomely
worded.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2261

During the course of your service in the United States Army did
you report to or receive information from any person who was known
to you to be a member of the Communist Party ?

(The witness conferred with his counseL)

Mr. ScHiRMER. I must decline, sir, to answer that question on the
grounds of the fif tli amendment.

Mr. Arens. During the course of j^our service in the United States
Army did you receive or transmit any confidential or security infor-
mation to a person who was not authorized by law to receive the same ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. No, sir.

Mr. Arens. Did you receive any instructions as to your conduct by
any person known by you to have been a Communist ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. No, sir.

Mr. Arens What was your employment immediately after your
discharge from the military ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I must decline to answer that question, Mr. Direc-
tor.

Mr. Arens. With the exception of your service in the United States
Army from November 1944 to July of 1946, and your present employ-
ment, have you been engaged in any principal occupation concerning
which you can tell the Committee on Un-American Activities without
revealing information which might be used against you in a criminal
proceeding ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ScHiRMER. Well, I have told you my present work and my 2
years' experience in the Army and outside of that, Mr. Director, I
must claim the privilege.

Mr. Arens. Let the record be clear. The blind is down, the iron
curtain is down from the standpoint of us procuring information on
all principal employments with the exception of your present employ-
ment and your service in the United States Army, is that correct?

Mr. SciiiRMER. I don't know about any iron curtain. I loiow about
our Constitution and the right under the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Are you presently a member of the Communist Party ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I must decline to answer that.

Mr. Arens. Do you know an individual by the name of Armando
Penha?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I would not publicly boast of acquaintanceship with
two-timing informers and I must respectfully decline to answer that
on the fifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. Look to my right, to see the gentleman who is standing
there, and tell me whether or not you are acquainted with him.

Mr. Schirmer. The same answer.

Mr. Kearney. Did you look at him ?

Mr. Schirmer. I looked at him now, sir ; I didn't beforehand.

Mr. Kearney. That is right.

Mr. Arens. This man yesterday took an oath before this committee
and testified for many years he was an undercover agent of this Gov-
ernment in the Communist conspiracy, a great sacrifice to liimself,
for the purpose of procuring information about persons, principally
United States citizens, who are under the protection of the flag of
this Government, who are engaged in this conspiratorial operation

2262 COMMUNIST ACTIVrTIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND ARE'A

against this Government. In the course of his testimony while he
was under oath he said that while he was serving in this conspiracy
at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation lie knew you as
a member of the District Committee Secretariat of the Communist
Party. Was he telling the truth or was he in error ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I would not want to enter into controversies with
informers, and I must respectfully decline to answer that on the
grounds that I will not be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Do you care to avail yourself of the opportunity to
deny being part and parcel of the Communist conspiracy in this
Nation?

Mr. ScHiRisiER. I know nothing of any conspiracy.

Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about the first part of the ques-
tion, the Communist Party ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. That is a matter upon which I must claim the
privilege.

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, didn't the gentleman open
that up when he said he didn't know anything about conspiracy?
Shouldn't he be instructed to answer that question ?

Mr. Moulder. I think he should, if you wish the witness to be
instructed.

He is ordered and directed to answer the question. At the request
of the committee the witness is ordered and directed to answer the
question.

Mr. ScHiRMER. Would the question be restated, please?

Mr. Arens. Mr. Keporter, read the question please.

(Record read by the reporter as requested.)

Mr. ScHiRMER. I again refuse to answer on the grounds that I will
not be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. It is the information of this committee that you went
underground in 1952. Would you kindly explain to the committee
what is meant by going underground?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ScHiRMER. Well, sir; I must claim the fifth on that question.

Mr. Arens. Is there any period of your life in the course of the last
five years when you were for a prolonged period separated from your
personal family ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I must again claim the fifth on that, Mr. Director.

Mr. Arens. The fact is, is it not, that one period some few years
ago when you went into the underground you were separated from
your wife and family for a considerable period of time when you
were undertaking to lose your identity? If that is not true please
deny it while you are under oath.

Mr. ScHiRMER. I decline to answer that on the grounds that I will
not be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, if you gave a truthful
answer to that question now you would be supplying information
which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?

Mr. SoHiRMER. Again I nmst say, Mr. Director, that my conscience
is completely clear of any wrongdoing, but that to answer that question
might provide a link in the chain of evidence which could be used in
an unjust proceeding against me.

Mr. Arens. If you were prosecuted under the Smith Act as a mem-
ber of an organization dedicated to the overthrow of the Government

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2263

of the United States by force and violence, vainld that be an nnjnst
])i'osecution?

Mr. SciiiRMER. I believe that that was an unjust prosecution and as
I recall the Government dropped the case for lack of evidence.

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of an oro-anization dedicated to the
overthrow of the Government by force and violence ?

Mr, ScHiRMER. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of an organization controlled by a
foreign power?

Mr. SoiiiRMER. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, the name of every person
known by you to be a member of tlie Gonnnunist conspiracy with whom
you have conferred prior to your appearance before this committee
and after you received your subpena.

(The witness conferred with his counsel. )

Mr. Sciiirmer. I decline on that, Mr. Director.

Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you ever known a person by the
name of Crowley — Francis X. T. Crowley ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. I am sorry, sir. I cannot recollect any such person
at this point.

Mr. Arens. May I perhaps refresh your recollection ?

Under date of June 28, 1954, a person by the name of Francis X. T.
Crowley testified before the C'onnnittee on Un-American Activities
and in the course of his testimony he stated that while he was a member
of the Conmiunist Party — I am paraphrasing it — while he was a mem-
ber of the Communist Party he knew Daniel Boone Schirmer to be a
member of the Communist Party.

Does that refresh your recollection ?

jNIr. SciiiRinER. No, sir ; 1 do not recollect anyone by that name.

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or have you ever known, a person by the
name of Herbert E. Robbins ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. I must decline to answer that, sir. I don't wish to
be a witness against myself.

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time during your attendance at Harvard University ?

Mr. Schirmer. I must decline to answer that again on the same
grounds.

Mr. Arens. Do you know, or have you ever known, a person by the
name of Herbert A. Philbrick ?

Mr. Schirmer. Again I don't like to boast of any acquaintance with
informers, and I refuse to answer that respectfully on the grounds of
( he tifth amendment.

Mr. Arens. There is not much possibility that you are an informer,
is there, that you are in the ])arty at the behest of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation and some day might tell us some things?

Mr. Schirmer. There is no chance of that.

Mr. Arens. Have you ever lived in Vermont ?

Mr. Schirmer. I must refuse to answer that, sir.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not
he has ever lived in Vermont.

2-4TT7— o.«— pt. 2 7

2264 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. ScHiRMER. I must answer that, tliat I refuse. I must refuse to
answer that, Mr. Chairman, on the f^rounds that I don't wish to be a
witness against myself — the fifth amendment.

Mr. Akens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully point out the ludicrous
situation, that there is undoubtedly an infinite number of situations
in which a person could be a resident of the State of Vermont without
in any sense, by just being a resident of Vermont, be obliged to give
testimony against himself.

Mr. Moulder. I have never been in Vermont, but I could never
understand how it could incriminate you to testify whether or not
you ever lived in Vermont.

Mr. ScHiRMER. It is a beautiful state, sir.

Mr. Moulder. Therefore, tlie committee directs the Avitness to answer
the question.

(The witness conferred wdth his counsel.)

Mr. SciiiR:NrER. Mr. Director, I must stand by my answer and say
that that might provide a link in the chain of evidence against me.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfidly suggest that will con-
clude the interrogation of this witness.

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman,

Mr. Moulder. General Kearney is recognized.

Mr. Kearney. I hope the gentleman isn't a drinking man.

Mr. Schirmer. jSTo, sir, I can answer that without any fear.

Mr. Kearney. I was going to say that I thought that thirty-four
"fifths" taken in less than half an hour is quite a lot.

Mr. Mout.der. Have you any questions, Mr. Doyle ?

Mr. Doyle. I couldn't quite hear, Mr. Schirmer, how many years
you had been self-employed. Was it two ?

Mr. Schirmer. Tw^o.

Mr. D0Y1.E. Then you were in the Army 2 years ?

Mr. Schirmer. That is right.

Mr. Doyle. That is 4 years. You graduated from Harvard College
with a degree in 1937. That means you have been out of college 21
years. You are able and willing to account for 4 years, without your
claiming it might incriminate you. So there are 17 years out of 21
since you graduated from Harvard in which you feel that if you
answered the questions honestly and full}' it might incriminate you.

Well, it is an unusual record, sure — yet not for one in the Commu-
nist Party.

May I ask you this: Are you now a full-time paid employee or
representative of the Communist Party in this area ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. No.

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever been ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. I must claim the fifth amendment on that.

Mr. Doyle. Is that one of the periods of time when you w^ere a
full-paid secretary of the Communist Party in this area, and there-
fore you claim the privilege. Was that why you declined to answer
it fully on that question ?

Mr. Schirmer. I must claim the privilege on that again, Mr.
Doyle.

Mr. Doyle. It is a fact, is it not, that you have been and maybe are
now 1 of file '^ members of the Communist Party Secretariat in this

COMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW E;NGK\ND AREA 22()5

area and drew full-time salary as such for a period of time, isn't that
true ?

Mr. SciiiRMER. I must decline to answer. I don't want to be a
witness against myself, Mr. Doyle.

yiv. Doyle. I think I recall tliat under oath a witness so testified
yesterday about you.

Now, let me see if I understand it. You mean for 17 years out of
your 21 years since graduation you are unwilling to tell this com-
mittee of Congress what your employment was to earn your liveli-
hood, is that correct, for fear it might involve you in a criminal
prosecution if you told the truth? Isn't that the status of your testi-
mony ?

Mr. ScHiKMER. That is the status of the testimony, yes.

Mr. Doyle. Now, may 1 ask this : Is it your idea that any citizen
who gives up commensurate employment adequate to support his
family and gives that up in order to take a lesser salary from the
FBI to help the FBI discover means and operations by which the
Communist Party in this country operates — is that the kind of a
person you would call an informer?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I have my own opinion about informers, Mr. Doyle,
and I don't think they are relevant to tlie purpose of the committee,
sir.

Mr. Doyle. Would you be good enough to tell me v^^hom you call
an informer? You said tonight you have described two people as
informers. What do you mean by an informer ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I think it would be best not to get into a discussion
of opinions, Mr. Doyle,

Mr. Doyle. You volunteered that these people were informers.
Now I think you are under somewhat of a legal obligation to answer
my question. What do you mean by an informer?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Doyle (continuing) . You volunteered it and I think you opened
the door.

Mr. Schir:mer. An informer is somebody who turns evidence in.

Mr. Doyle. If he turned in actual facts and the truth, is he still an
informer, if he helps enforce tlie laws of the United States? Is that
what you call an informer, if he tells the truth and relates facts
honestly to law enforcement officers of the United States? Is he still
an informer ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ScHiR]\rER. I don't know of any informer before these commit-
tees who has done that.

]\Ir. Doyle. You don't.

Now, I will ask you to state whether or not Mr. Penha was telling
the truth yesterday when under oath he identified you as a Communist.
He was under oath when he identified you as a Communist. Now you
just stated that yon don't know of any informer who told the truth.
I will give you an opportunity to tell whether or not he was telling
the truth or was he telling a falsehood, in your judgment. Your
counsel is here now. Here is a public forum whereby you can say
what you want about him. You have called him an informer already.

Mr. ScHiRMER. I stand on my statement that he is an informer;
and as far as my membership in the Communist Party, I will not

225(5 OOMMUlSrilST activities in the new EXGLAND AR'E'A

answer that on the groun.ds I don't svisli to be a witness against
myself.

Mr. Doyle. Yes. Yon said you didn't knoAv of an informer who
had told the truth. Now he is nnder oath and subject to prosecution
for perjury. So are you, if perjury is proven on your behalf.

Now, I will ask you again : Here is an open and shut opportunity
for you to either affirm or deny that he was telhng the truth when he
identified you as a Communist. Why don't you take advantage of it ?

Mr. SciiiinrKK. I don't wisli to provide a link in a cliain of evidence'
that might be used against me.

Mr. Doyle. It is probably because the gentlenuui who identified
you as a Comnue you know full well was telling the truth. That is
tlie way I appraised his testimony.

Mr. MouLDSK. Is that all, Mr. Dovle ?

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all.

But it is a shame that a person who graduates from Harvard is
not willing to account for his employment for seventeen years out of
twenty-one.

Mr. MouLDEi;. General Kearney, have you any questions^

Mr. Kearney. No. Taking the fifth thirty-seven times is a lot of
times.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Mcintosh.

Mr. McIxTOSH. No.

Mr. MoL'LDER. I wish to ask you tliis question. I believe you were
asked a question as to whether or not you are now a member of the
Communist Party. Was that question asked you?

Mr. ScHiRMER. It was.

Mr. Moulder. You declined to answer that question ?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I did.

Mr. Moulder. Since you have been subpenaed as a wntness to ap-
pear before this connnittee, have you conferred with any group of
otlier persons known to you to be members of the Communist Party
as to how you should conduct yourself — whether or not you would
answer questions propounded to you by tlie counsel of this com-
mittee ?

Mr. SciiiRMER. That enters into the realm of political association
and I want to claim not only the fifth amendment but the first in my
repl}' to that question, or my lack of reply, my refusal to answer that
question.

Mr. Moltlder. I am not sure, I am not positive ; however, the infor-
mation has come to me that members of the Commmiist Party who
were subpenaed, that is, those who were referred to as hard-core
members of the Communist Party, subpenaed to appear before this
committee, had a meeting and a conference where it was discussed
how they would conduct tliemselves and the tactics they would use
when appearing before this committe.

(^an you give us any information concerning such a meeting?

Mr. Sciiirmer. I must refuse on the grounds of the first amend-
ment, freedom of political association, and the fifth, the desire to
avoid becoming a witness against myself.

Mr. Moulder. And do you know wdiether or not at that meeting
an Olga Garczynski was present — attended the meeting where the
plot and plan were made and agreed upon that she w'ould when
a])]^earing as a witness before the committee make statements to

COMMUNIST ACTrVTTIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2267

the effect that she was a member of the Communist Party and also
make derogatory statements concerning Armando Penha — so as to
discredit him as a witness ?

Do you have any information or knowledge on that question?

Mr. ScHiRMER. I know of no such meeting,

Mr. Moulder. You referred to him a while ago as a two-timer in-
former. Do you recall that statement? "Wliat is the basis of your
using of the words "two-timer" ?

Mr. ScuiRMER. Well, it comes as a result of hearing the testimony
of the young lady who testified this afternoon to the effect that he
courted her, as I remember, and on the basis of his courtship he
brought her into the Communist Party. At the same tune he was
married, I believe, and the father of children.

Mr. Moulder. Have you ever seen this young lady you are now
referring to whose name is Olga Garczynski? Have you ever seen
her before ?

(The witness conferred witli his counsel.)

Mr. ScHiRMER. I must decline. I must refuse to answer that ques-
tion, sir, on the grounds of the fifth amendment.

Mr. Moulder. Do you then believe her testimony ?

Mr. Schirmer. I have no reason either to believe or disbelieve it.

Mr. Moulder. Would she be classified as an informer in the theory
that you use in classifying an informer?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. Schirmer. It wouldn't seem so to me, sir.

Mr. Moulder. Well, I again ask you the question

Mr. Schirmer. She sounded like a

Mr. Moulder. You declined to answer questions as to whether or
not you had ever seen her before or whether or not you had been
acquainted with her. I want to repeat the question as to whether
you were present at a meeting, if there was such a meeting, held by
the witnesses subpenaed by this committee, who were known to be
members of the Communist Party and active members of the Com-
munist Party, whether or not they held a meeting and she was present
and a plot and plan were there made to make certain derogatory ac-
cusations against Armando Penha in order to discredit and embarrass
him when appearing and cooperating with this committee and giving
the testimony that he gave. Do you have any knowledge or infor-
mation concerning such a meeting ?

Mr. Schirmer. No, I do not.

Mr. Moulder. General Kearney ?

Mr. Kearney. I was going to make the observation, Mr. Schirmer,
that the only difference between the witness you are just speaking
about and yourself and the lady who testified this afternoon, to-
gether with the rest of the witnesses, in its entirety is Mr. Penha
took the stand and answered all questions, freely and truthfully, and
you and the rest of the witnesses took the stand and claimed the fifth
amendment on every occasion that you could. Now, I do not question
but that is your legal right, but we still can read between the lines and
as far as believing or disbelieving the witness, I believe the testimony
of Mr. Penha.

Mr. Doyle. Of course. General Kearney and Mr. Chairman, the
very sort of meeting you have information on was held, the coaching

24777— 58— pt. 2 8

2268 OOlVUMTJNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

of witnesses by other Communists, is part of their pattern all over
the Nation.

Mr. Kearney. That is common practice.

Mr. Doyle. Boston is no exception. Not in my book is it an ex-
ception at all. And they deliberately blackmail, try to ruin the repu-
tation of people who expose them, and Boston is no exception.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any more questions ?

Mr. Kearney. That is all.

Mr. McIntosh. I have no questions.

Mr. Doyle. It is just stereotyped malicious persecution on the part
of the Communists of anyone who dares to differ with them and
expose them. Boston is no exception.

Mr. Moulder. Have you any other questions, Counsel?

Mr. Arens. No, sir.

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.

Mr. ScHiRMER. May I have a copy of the committee's resolution
authorizing this hearing, Mr. Director, please?

Mr. Arens. Yes. That will be made available to you ; Mr. Bonora
will make that available to you, please.

The next witness, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. Armando Penha.

Will you kindly resume the stand.

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Penha.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly resume the witness chair, please?

TESTIMONY OF ARMANDO PENHA— Eesumed

Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, you have previously been sworn on this
record, is that correct ?

Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Arens. Before proceeding with matters which we initially
contemplated interrogating you about, I should like, if you please,
Mr. Penha, to smnmarize the testimony which was given this after-
noon in your absence. One Olga Garczynski was being interrogated
by myself, after having been sworn by the chairman. She appeared
pursuant to a subpena which was issued upon her by this committee.
In the course of her testimony, and I do not have the transcript now,
but I am only relying upon my memory, she stated in effect that you
had recruited her into the Communist Party, had courted her while
she was in the Communist Party. I would not undertake to quote
her further, except to say that her demeanor with respect to you was
one of complete derogation, with an insinuation of an attack upon
your clmracter and your relationship with her. I should like now
if you, in your own way, would say anything you care to say with
respect to the testimony which I have midertaken in a rather crude
way to summarize here.

Mr. Penha. Certainly, sir.

I understand that I am not in command of the situation so far as
her testimony goes. However, I did see a certain portion of it on
TV. Further, I would like to state emphatically this is one of the
devices that the party uses and has used in the past. This is the
matter of what I call legal and illegal methods. Deceit is nothing
for them. As I recall

COMMUNIST ACnVrriES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2269

Mr. Arens. Excuse me just a minute, Mr. Penha. I wonder if you
could push the microphone back just a bit. I am afraid we are having
echoes from the sound that comes from the recorder.

Mr. Penha. As I recall looking at the TV this evening she stated, or
at least the reporter quoted her as saying, that she would swear on a
stack of Bibles. Certainly she would and every hard-core Com-
munist they will only use the Bible for their own means, not as

a good Christian would.

Mr. Moulder. Can we turn the machine down. Is the man here
who works this machine? Maybe we could accomplish the same ob-
jective, Mr. Chairman, if this microphone could be pushed back a
little bit.

Mr. Penha. Do you find that better, sir?

Mr. Arens. Thank you.

Mr. Penha. I could go on with various illustrations of my experi-
ence in the Communist conspiracy of methods used by no other type
of organization. Time does not peraiit me. However, if at any
time I am requested or instructed to I would gladly go into them.

Insofar as the charges made that I recruited Olga Garczynski into
the Communist Party, they are just as false as others. Olga Gar-
czynski went to California at the time she was a member of the Labor
Youth League.

Mr. Arens. Do you recall approximately what year this was, Mr.
Penha?

Mr. Penha. Approximately 1950 or 1951. Her father, Andrew
Garczynski, her sister Tillie Cropper, were both members of the Com-
munist Party to my knowledge. Not only were they members of the
Communist Party but Andrew brought both daughters into the Labor
Youth League.

Mr. Arens. The Labor Youth League is one of the youth organi-
zations of the conspiracy, is it not?

Mr, Penha. That is definitely so, sir.

Upon her return I was informed by the district leadership that
she had been active in the Labor Youth League. I was not aware of
it because I had been in the party a short time. Her father had always
informed me of the same. It was my task as instructed by the dis-
trict leadership to elevate her into the Communist Party. That I did,
and I had to do.

Mr. Arens. Did you report to the FBI each and every step you
took in this process ?

Mr. Penha. I absolutely did, sir.

Mr. Arens. Without dwelling on this Garczjmski matter, because
we have other important questions, may I ask whether or not you, in
your relationship with Olga Garczynski, conducted yourself m. such
a manner as to lead her to believe that you were — to use her phrase, or
her word — courting her ?

Mr. Penha. Sir, to touch on that point, I would like first of all to
bring feo the attention the activities of the past week. Last week she
got in touch with me and requested that I see her immediately because
of the fact she had received a subpena from this committee. I saw
her. A day later I received in the mail an envelope addressed to my
daughter, who is only 2 years of age — the name is Susan Penha —

2270 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

with a birthday card, which is a gimmick of the party, which we have
used numerous times in order to get messages across, and her birthday
is in November. Inside of this card there was a note addressed to
my wife.

Had I known this would come up I would have brought it. If it
seems pertinent to this committee I will certainly drive down to New
Bedford and get it. That note stated that she was very nervous, she
was contemplating on a lawyer and that she requested C, which was
the initial for my wife, to tell A, which was the initial for me, not
to forget to be at the proper time or place, or I don't recall just ex-
actly the phraseology of it. Subsequently, on Saturday I met with
her as it had been prearranged. I also met with Roy Rogerson whom I
have already identified. We were to have met with Douglas Perry.
He was not at the designated area but later in the evening he met with
me and we went through various processes insofar as appearance here
goes. At that time I would also like to inform this committee that
Olga stated that being nervous as she was she went to an attorney in
New Bedford. I only recall his first name that she gave me, by the
name of George. As a good citizen I would request that he would
<;ome here before this committee and state exactly what took place.
According to Olga, she stated that he told her, number one, to tell the
truth ; number two, in reference to the fact that she could not afford,
and I make emphasis on this part, she could not afford to retain the
services of an attorney, much as she would like to have had an attor-
ney present with her at this time, and it is strange that today she
finds herself here with an attorney. Undoubtedly with the news of
yesterday the party took full speed and action to see that money was
no problem.

Mr. Arens. Sir, do you care to categorically affirm or deny, while
you are under oath, the assertion by Olga Garczynski that during
the process of your association with her, while you were an undercover
agent in the Communist Party for the FBI, you courted her?

Mr. Penha. Sir, I did not court her or any other female Commu-
nist sympathizer or dupe, none whatsoever.

I stand, and if I may raise my voice at this time, it is in anger, be-
cause I know the techniques of the underground of the party. I was
part of it, and I know they are capable of doing these things.

Mr. Moulder. I wish to make this statement: If the accusation she
made were true, it is my opinion she would not have publicly have ad-
mitted it for any purpose. It is my opinion that she is acting under
the direction of, and in accordance with, the Communist Party plot
and plan to embarrass and discredit you. She even went so far as
to admit she was a member of the Communist Party in her attempt
to impress the members of this committee with some weight or degree
of veracity in connection with her statements.

I have interrogated a witness preceding you concerning a meeting
which they had where they discussed tactics and the method and pro-
cedure and how they would conduct themselves while ap]:)earing be-
fore this committee. It certainly is not unreasonable to assume that
she is the one selected to serve in this plot and plan which I referred
to for the purpose of discrediting and embarrassing you.

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, may I invite your attention to the persons

Mr. Penha. May I say, sir, I would like just to make an addition
in the person of Olga Garczynski.

C'OMMUNIIST ACTIVITlEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2271

Mr. Arens. Proceed at your own pace to do so.

Mr. Penha. Thank you very kindly, sir.

Among many other photographs, unfortunately I only have a few
here because of the fact that I had, as it was my duty, to turn them
over to the intelligence agencies — this is the only copy that I have of
any photographs. However, the intelligence agencies have others.
In this photograph or series of them I would like to show this par-
ticular one. It apparently seems to be in the eyes of the general public
a picnic, which is a tactic and device of the party. This was a secret
meeting that was held in the Cape, at which time was present, and
the picture verifies the presence of these persons, as being Sidney Lip-
shires, district organizer; Joan Lipshires, and a district leader at
the time; Roy Rogerson; his wife, Palmeda Rogerson; John Russo, in
charge of the Labor Youth League for New England ; Olga Garczyn-
ski; my wife, my children, and myself.

The purpose of this is just like in many other instances, the party
uses different tactics in order to have secret meetings to appear as if
there is nothing wrong with it. For example, this other picture here
shows me with Sidney Lipshires. We are at a beach. It seems like
two average persons are taking a sun bath. But if you will look closely
at the expression of both of us you can see it is apparent that the aver-
age person would not be taking a sun bath and looking that way.

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Arens. I think perhaps from the standpoint of making the
record clear here, Mr. Penha, it was not our objective to call you back
to the stand with any suggestion that there is any doubt whatsoever
on behalf of this staff of your integrity, your morality, your honesty
or your character in any respect. I have been engaged professionally
in this business with this committee and the Internal Security Sub-
committee for about twelve years. I have been in contact with literally
hundreds of undercover agents, persons who have been in similar status
to that of yourself. Never in my experience professionally have I been
in contact or association with anyone who had a higher character,
integrity, veracity, than yourself; and on this record I want it to be
made absolutely clear that the sole and exclusive reason why we called
you back here on this particular issue before proceeding with the in-
terrogation on the general pattern was so that you could add one more
portrayal of the treachery of this conspiracy which is threatening
us all.

Mr. Penha. Thank you very kindly, sir.

Mr. Arens. May we proceed, if you please, with a discussion of
persons known by you on the national level of the Communist Party
m New York.

As you know, Mr. Penha, we have gone over this in consultation
with you many times before and we would like to have you now for
the purpose of a public record proceed with your identification of each
of the several persons who to your certain knowledge are on the na-
tional level of the Communist Party in New York City. Then we will
proceed with other areas.

Mr. Penha. May I ask one thing, sir ?

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.

Mr. Penha. Is that in addition to the members of the National Com-
mittee who reside in this area ?

2272 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

Mr. Arens. That is correct, yes, sir.

Mr. Penha. I shall start first with this area.

Mike, Russo, a member of the National Committee.

Anne Burlak, previously active and a member of the National
Committee.

Eobert Handman, whom I have referred to, I believe yesterday, as
coordinator of the National Textile Commission.

Walter Barry, formerly very active in the March of Labor, a left
magazine, so-called, but a magazine issued by the party so that it
would carry a broader phase and reach greater influence and people
than the Daily Worker could have.

More and above that is the fact that he is the head of the National
Metals Commission.

Max Gordon of the Daily Worker in charge of circulation.

Joseph Starobin, a writer of the Daily Worker who, incidentally,
made a trip to various countries in the Far East, including China and
the Soviet Union and expounded tremendously throughout the country
for the purposes of both propaganda and finances, including the
Boston area.

Mr. Arens. We have had him as a witness in executive session.

Mr. Penha. Yes, sir.

Milton Howard, at one time identified as a writer of the Daily
Worker, but better known as one of the key figures of the Masses and
Mainstream, a Conmiunist Party publication.

Maud Russell, an individual from New York City. She is a writer
for Far Eastern publications. Her influence extends from border to
border. She has mastered the Far Eastern situation. Primarily her
objective is recognition of China, speaking always in terms of peace
and trade with the East and West.

Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, who, I am sure, is well known to you and
who was in Boston a few years ago, a National Committee member.

Phil Bart, associated with the Daily Worker and also a former
member of the National Committee.

Junius Scales, former district organizer for North Carolina and
surrounding areas, that is, various other states which were under his
jurisdiction, I believe, particularly Virginia.

I would like to add at this time, and it has come to my attention,
that Junius Scales resigned publicly from the Communist Party. Here
again is another method of deceit that the party uses. I know Junius
Scales extremel}^ well. He has slept in my home. We have had con-
ferences many times. I know that he is a devoted Marxist and this
is just one of another techniques of the party.

Mr. Arens. On that point, how about Joseph Starobin? He al-
legedly has resigned.

Mr. Penha. Yes.

Mr. Arens. Do you feel the same way about him ?

Mr. Penha. I absolutely do, sir.

Mr. Arens. How about Doxe}^ Wilkerson? He allegedly resigned.
Do you feel the same way about him ?

Mr. Penha. That was the next person I was going to come to.
Doxey Wilkerson, a Communist teacher and writer, theoretician,
teacher in one of the foremost Communist schools in New York City.
The Jefferson School

Mr. Arens. The Jefferson School of Social Science?

C?OMMUISniST ACTlVITIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2273

Mr. Penha. Of Social Science. This individual I personally met
in Providence, Rhode Island. He is unscrupulous, is shrewd, a very
able Communist and again is one that would accept w4ioleheartedly
the party discipline to resign in order to better infiltrate the Negro
organizations. Fortunately, the Negro people will not go for tliat,
that is, the majority of them. The next person I have is Fanny
Licht. She was residing incognito with an alias in New York City.
Her position in the party was southern regional organizer. That is,
she was a top organizer over and above all organizers in the South.

Mr. Arens. And now, sir, may I ask you if you would kindly give
us the name and a word of description about each person known by
you to be a member of the Communist Party in the New Bedford
area. May I just suggest this — that even though in some instances
you may already have identified some of those persons because of their
leadership status, you might repeat the identification now so that our
record reflects the identification of these people all in one section of
the hearings. Also if you can do so, give us a word of the last known
address or general area in which that person to your knowledge
resides.

Mr. Penha. Yes, sir. However, I would first like to make the fol-
lowing statement, which is a very brief one, but I think a rather per-
tinent one.

Throughout my eight years in the party, I have known many com-
rades. The ones I have identified at this time and that I will continue
during the process of this hearing, are not, by and large, the number
of comrades I knew in its entirety, whether it be in Massachusetts,
New England, or throughout the country.

You understand that I am working from memory and that it is
utterly impossible for me to give you a 100 percent number as far as
numbers go of the members that I knew.

Mr. Arens. We appreciate that.

Would you kindly proceed now, so the record may be clear at
this point, to give to the committee the name and a word about each
person, including tlie last known address, in the New Bedford area
who, to your certain knowledge, was a member of the Communist
Party in that area ?

Mr. Penha. I shall start with Joseph Figueiredo. I knew him to
be the district organizer at the time I came into the party.
\ Mr. Arens. You have, of course, talked about him before. I
don't think it will be necessary to elaborate the facts on him.

Mr. Penha. The only thing I would like to raise, which I do think
we did mention yesterday, the last whereabouts, to my knowledge, is
that he is in San Francisco. Eulalia Figueiredo, his former wife, in
Poland, deported by the United States Government, who at the time
I knew her, was a Section Committee member.

Joy Clark Figueiredo. At the time I knew her she was Joy Clark.
Subsequently she married Joseph Figueiredo. Her whereabouts, San
Francisco, California.

Mary Figueirido, Section Committee member, New Bedford, Mass.

Sir, when I say New Bedford, Mass., that would be the last where-
abouts on that individual,

Mr. Arens. Yes, we understand.

Mr. Penha. Nat Shelman, Peabody, Massachusetts, Section Com-
mittee member in New Bedford.

2274 cx)MMU]sriiST activities in the new England area

Mr. Arens. In other words, lie moved from New Bedford to Pea-
body, Massachusetts ?

Mr. Penha. Sir, here again is another technique of the party. He
moved, yes, physically, but he was thrown out, although a colonizer.
The party does not spare any given person. He and his wife were
forced out of New Bedford. If you would like to have me elaborate
on that, I would.

Mr. Arens. Just a word, please, sir.

Mr. Penha. Yesterday in speaking about white chauvinism, he
became one of the targets of it. In addition to that he did not agree
with Joseph Figueiredo that the section organizer, who was also the
chairman of the Section Committee, should be the full and complete
dictator of the apparatus. The other leaders of the Section Committee
should have a voice. Joseph Figueiredo did not agree from time to
time. He warned them to the extent that he was compelled to leave
the New Bedford area.

Mr. Moulder. Could we have the one large set of lights turned off ?
I believe it would be better. Of course the other one remaining on
might help.

Mr. Penha. The next person, Andie Shelman, Section Committee
member, Peabody, Massachusetts, wife of Nathaniel Shelman.

The next person, Dan Amado. At the time I knew him when I
first came into the party he was a Section Committee member.

Incidentally, I would like to raise at this point another of the tech-
niques of the party.

When Joseph Figueiredo came to my home for the very first time
Dan Amado came with him. Dan Amado did not say more than
six words to me. He sat down comfortably, supposedly sleeping, but
watching every facial expression of mine to insure the section or-
ganizer that I was not a phony. This I was even told by him at a
later date when I became section organizer.

Subsequently he was expelled for security measures; as I pointed
out yesterday, the party strengthens itself with weaklings and at on©
given period it was felt he was a weakling.

Manuel Coito, a subsequent member of the Section Committee of New
Bedford in New Bedford, again a person that was expelled for
security reasons.

Arnold Schwartz, colonizer, Section Committee member, New York

City.

Rosaline Schwartz, colonizer, Section Committee member. New York

City.

Harry Fishman, UE Organizer, at present I believe in Bridgeport,
Connecticut.

Eozlyn Fishman, his wife, in charge of peace organizations and
other front organizations for the New Bedford area. At present in
Connecticut.

Frank Mello from Fairhaven, Massachusetts. On ice, a popular
Communist terminology.

Mr. Arens. Is he a sleeper now ?

Mr. Penha. The same phraseology that you have used here now is
equivalent and parallel to the one I have used.

This person was put on ice or set up as a sleeper for the purposes
of using his home as a secret meeting area where top people would
meet.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2275

Mr. Aeens. Where is he now ? Is he here in Massachusetts ?

Mr. Penha. He is in Fairhaven, Massachusetts, but it is probable
that he may be in Florida. He occasionally goes down there during
these winter months.

Mary Macedo, New Bedford, Massachusetts, rank and file.

Arthur Macedo. That is the husband. He was also placed on
the basis of a sleeper or on ice, for the purposes of using his home
as a mail front so that secret documents of the party could reach
me from the district.

Mr. Arens Mr. Penha, could you hesitate a moment? I hold in
my hand an envelope addressed Arthur Macedo, 62 Sidney Street,
New Bedford, Mass. Mr. Williams is now going to display that to
you. Was Macedo's home there used as a mail drop?

(Document handed to the witness.)

Mr. Penha. That is absolutely correct, sir.

Mr, Arens. Has he been cut out of the Communist Party for
specific underground assignments ?

Mr. Penha. He was cut out of the party prior to action taken
for the use of his home. The party does not do that today and use
the home tomorrow. That is done in advance. They prepare them-
selves well in advance on these matters. I may add, that the contents
that were in this envelope, which was sent by special delivery, as
you can see, were important documents submitted to me by Sidney
Lipshires, who in turn had arrived from New York City.

Mr. Arens. What is the date? What is the postmark on that
envelope ?

Mr. Penha. The postmark on here, sir, is Boston, June 21, 1955,
Tremont Street Station.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the docu-
ment which he now holds in his hands be appropriately marked
and incorporated by reference in this record.

Mr. Moulder. The document referred to will be so marked.

(Document marked "Penha Exhibit No. 5" and retained in com-
mittee files) .

Mr, Arens. Would you kindly proceed with the next name?

Mr. Penha. The next person, James Braz. James Braz is a charter
member of the Communist Party in the New Bedford area, a leader
at one time of the Labor Youth League.

I would also like to inform this committee at this time, if I may,
that James Braz, while a member of the Armed Forces in Italy in
the military police then, that is, the combat military police, their
job was to enter those areas in Italy which were occupied by the allies.
His function, not with the sanction of the United States Army, but
with the sanction and instructions of the Communist Party, was to
approach the leading Communists in each village and town in order
to give that person the leadership and control of that town.

Furthermore, Jimmy Braz, to my knowledge, is the only Com-
munist that I know who belongs to two Communist Parties, that is,
a member of the Communist Party in this country and a member
of the Communist Party in Italy, His membership card is signed
by Togliatti himself, who recognizes great services.

Mr. Arens. Wliere is he now ?

Mr. Penha. New Bedford, Mass., sir.

2276 OOMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

The next person is John Bandarra ; John Bandarra, a former pres-
ident of UE local in New Bedford, Massachusetts. He is not at the
present time a member of the party through fear, not the fact that he
has lost his sympathy. I would like to point out one thing in comiec-
tion with John Bandarra and a few other people in the UE area of
New Bedford, in the person of Douglas Perry, a zealous and hard-
core member of the party who would accept discipline like no other
Communist would. He had, I believe, three plants in the New Bedford
area under UE contract with approximately 1,000 members, and may
I add one percent were Communists or Communist sympathizers,
ninety-nine percent let themselves become dupes.

John Cordeiro. Incidentally, John Cordeiro is the father-in-law
of Douglas Perry. John Cordeiro has in his possession — or has had, I
imagine, since these hearings started, and he made some effort to see
that this item would not be in his home — but up to and prior to that
time, he had the mimeograph machine for the New Bedford area,
which was to be used in case of a crisis where the district leadership
would be arrested and we, in turn, would have to avail ourselves of
our own methods of putting out propaganda.

I would also like to point out that John Cordeiro has been an
officer of the previously mentioned club, the Alianca Liberal Portu-
gesa Clube, the secretary. He has exerted great influence in this club.
I would also like to inform the committee at this time that for a
period of several years he conducted a fifteen-minute radio program
on Sunday in the Portuguese language. The interesting part of this
was that on significant dates, such as Mothers Day, he would make a
speech relative to the fact that "your sons are dying in Korea. This
is the time to see your Congressmen and get them back." I am not
saying this verbatim but this is the line he used. He used during
Christmas "Peace" and right along the line for various other holidays.

Manuel Rego, Fairhaven, Massachusetts, on ice, or as you respect-
fully stated, a sleeper, which is the correct term,

Mr. Arens. Where is he now ?

Mr. Penha. In Fairhaven, Massachusetts. His home has been
used for top secret meetings from time to time. These meetings were
only known to myself and the participants in that meeting. Not even
Manuel Rego was aware of it until one or two hours prior to the
meeting.

Charles Frates, New Bedford. This man was very active in propa-
ganda. However, in mentioning propaganda, this was another device
and technique of the party. He used to receive different pamphlets
such as the New World Review, the Daily and Sunday Worker, the
March of Labor, and others; and he would place them in our auto-
mobiles, in shop areas and the like, in churches and what have you,
so that he felt if at least one person that evening, when he went out,
would absorb and believe some of it he would have accomplished
sometliing.

Andrew Garczynski. This is the father of Olga Garczynski. He
is the one that brought into the labor youth movement both Olga
and Tillie and he himself is a party member.

Incidentally, some time ago, this goes a few years back, according
to what he told me, he was arrested in New Bedford, Massachusetts,
for distributing party literature. He did not stay too long. How-
ever, if the committee is interested, they could check that further.

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2277

The next person is Olga Garczynski, Section Committee member,
New Bedford, a true hard-core member. I would also add that Olga
Garczynski was a secret party member in the National Silverplate,
they call it, I believe. Company in New Bedford. Her purpose was to
influence the masses within, in other words, to work as sort of an un-
paid organizer for the UE, which was attempting to organize the
plant.

(At this point Mr. Kearney left the hearing room.)

Mr. Penha (continuing) . Manuel Pacheco. He was a rank and file,
living in South Dartmouth, Massachusetts. He attempted and suc-
ceeded at one time in getting some papers falsified in order to pro-
tect a son-in-law who had come into the country illegally and who was
working in the waterfronts of New Bedford. Subsequently at a later
date his son-in-law went into Canada and, as I recall, did come into the
country then.

Another thing I would like to add with Manuel Pacheco is that he
was very active in promoting, distributing of Marxist books and
literature throughout the soutihem area of New Bedford, Massachu-
setts.

More, I would say on him would be that he applied a short time ago
for renewal of seaman's papers and I asked him whether or not he
intended to get back into the Merchant Marine or if he had ever been
in the Merchant Marine. He stated that if it was at all necessary to
get into the Merchant Marine he wanted those papers. Therefore he
applied again for those papers. Fortunately the Coast Guard did
not give it to him.

Joseph Szocik, a rank and file member who was very active both
in collecting dues for the party, sustainers, distributing literature,
being of influence among the Polish minority group of New Bedford.

John Humenuk — John has since then been expelled for reasons of
security.

Mr. Arens. Is he still under Communist Party discipline ?

Mr. Penha. At this very moment I cannot say. As of a short
time ago, yes. He is a person that has contributed extensively for
the Communist conspiracy in the past. He is from New Bedford,
Massachusetts.

John Pacheco, New Bedford, Massachusetts, a contractor, small
contractor, very active in Communist fronts. Also one of our good
sustainers.

Edmund Hirst, from New Bedford ; his main task, being an elderly
man, was to expound the Communist propaganda. He received litera-
ture in bulk form from Canada. The purpose of that was to place
it in various bus stations, restaurants, cars, and the like. He also
used a rather unique technique. He would send it by mail, using
various people, including Olga Garczynski, to write the name of the
individual so that it would not follow the same pattern of the same
person writing the envelope of some of the addresses to Congressmen,
to city councilors, to people in high positions, locally and statewide,
without her return address.

Palmeda Crosley Rogerson. She is the wife of Roy Rogerson.
She has been in and out of the party. She has been more active in
political office, that is, running for political office with the able sup-
port of the UE and united front action in New Bedford. I believe

2278 COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA

she missed from being elected as a councilor- at-large by a mere hand-
ful of votes. She was also very active in the Progressive Party.

Mr. Arens. She didn't run on the Communist Party ticket as such,
did she?

Mr. Penha. Absolutely not, sir.

Mr. Arens. She ran on the ticket of one of the great political par-
ties, but failed to disclose her connection with the Communist Party,
is that correct ?

Mr, Penha. Sir, my recollection does not permit me to say whether
she ran as an Independent or Democrat.

Mr. Arens. I have just been advised that the elections in New Bed-
ford are non-partisan — that they do not have political parties in
the city government.

Mr. Penha. That is why I say I don't recall exactly.

Mr. Arens. Kindly proceed if you please, sir.

Mr. Penha. Roy Rogerson, the husband of Palmeda Rogerson.

Mr. Arens. You have previously mentioned him.

Mr. Penha. Yes ; New Bedford, Massachusetts.

Mr. Arens. Did you want to allude to Douglas Perry ?

Mr. Penha. I did, yes. I am sorry. Douglas Perry, New Bedford,
Massachusetts, a UE organizer and Section Committee member, mem-
ber of the District Metals Commission and chairman of the Section
Metals Commission.

May I say at this time that this man, a very intelligent man, both
as a Christian and a Communist, is a person that is very zealous and
accepts party discipline like no other person I know in labor circles.
I would like to add I was informed this evening that my local town
paper, the New Bedford Times, stated something to the effect, and
I don't quote verbatim, but he was interviewed and he said "Lies, lies,
lies." That is again typical of the party techniques.

Mr. Arens. He was not under oath when he said "Lies, lies, lies," to
the newspaper reporter, was he ?

Mr. Penha. Absolutely not.

Mr. Arens. We have him under subpena and we will see what he
says in a day or two here.

Mr. Penha. I am glad that he is under subpena ; and at this time,
if I may, I would like to address the public in New Bedford that are
close, very closely related, to the UE and that is they have a vast
opportunity of removing him, Roy Rogerson, and a few other people
if they wish. Ninety-nine percent of the people are not under Com-
munist domination willingly. Unwillingly they are. They have a
tremendous weapon. I hope they take advantage of it as great
Americans.

Mr. Arens. Your next name, if you please, sir.

Mr. Penha. John Vieira, Acushnet, Massachusetts, an employee of
Wamsutta Mills. While a member of the party he did a terrific job
for the party under the leadership of Mike Russo. The reward that he
obtained was about a year and a half later — expulsion from the party
for security reasons.

The next person, Roland Botelho, New Bedford, Massachusetts.
This person, at present unemployed, was formerly employed at the
Berkshire-Hathaway Mills in New Bedford. Incidentally, for the

COMMUlSnST ACTTV'ITIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2279

information of the committee, at that time he was a shop steward,
signing the Taft-Hartley law while a Communist.

I would like to raise one very pertinent point here about
Koland. I may say two, if I may.

One, I was instructed by Mike Russo at a secret meeting which was
held in my home to obtain complete information relative to the Hath-
away mill for the purposes of making an analysis insofar as textile
goes in the South. This is the names, the addresses, the occupations,
departments, types of work, and so forth, of that plant. This was a
big task. Mike instructed me that nothing is too big in the party
to do. I approached Roland Botelho. Within 10 days he obtained a
copy which came from the office of the president, Mr. Seabury Stanton.

I would also like to point out, when Mr. Budenz came to New
Bedford to speak at the New Bedford High School a short time ago,
this same Botelho came to me and said that he had a very good idea,
that he had spoken with other comrades. They thought it was
excellent.

Roland Botelho was a person who was well equipped, had a knack
of knowing how to work with different types of arms, even making
them. He wanted to make a small bomb.

Mr. Arens. When you say Budenz, you mean Louis Budenz, for-
mer editor of the Communist Daily Worker, who broke from the
party a long time ago and has been serving the Government by giving
information and the like ?

Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.

I will tell you, sir, at that time that was one of the few times that
my hair had sort of risen up, the few I got on my head. I knew
Budenz. That is, I knew of him. I knew he was doing a terrific
job. And I wanted that stopped. I had to meet with the district
and convince them that this was not the thmg to do.

Mr. Arens. What were they going to do with the bomb he was
going to create ?

Mr. Penha. They were going to place the bomb near the platform
Avhere he was going to speak. This, incidentally, was timed. This
did not take place because of the manner in which I was able to con-
vince the district, and believe you me, sir, it took a lot out of me to
do it. I think someone else aided me in this, namely, God.

Mr. Doyle. Did you report that to the FBI at the time ?

Mr. Penha. Sir, everything I have stated here has been reported
in detail in writing to the FBI.

Mr. Doyle. Thank you.

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for approxi-
mately 5 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

(Committee members present : Representatives Moulder, Doyle, and
Mcintosh.)

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order.

After conferring with my colleagues on the committee, the com-
mittee will continue the hearing until ten o'clock, p. m., and then we
will recess mitil ten o'clock in the morning.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, I am not sure that the record is quite clear
on these specific details which you gave just before the recess. You
;alluded just before the recess to the creation of a bomb which was

2280 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE' NEW ENGLAND AREIA

to be used by the Communist Party to blow up or kill Louis Budenz.
Can you give us the details in summary form on that now ?

Mr. Penha. Yes, sir. Wlien I was first approached by Roland
Botelho, we had, I believe, three or four meetings on this matter.
First, he illustrated how he was going to work it out, how he had it
planned. He presented to me a sketch of the auditorium of the school,
the exits, and just how he could get in beforehand and place it and
be able to get out without being noticed. The purpose of it was that
it was felt in the party that Budenz was doing a terrific job for the
United States Government and its people and it was felt that if such
an accident would occur it would eliminate another great American,
thus putting the party in the position of being that much stronger
with one less person to confront with and worry about.

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed with the next name?

Mr. Penha. Would you kindly tell me the last one I had?

Mr. Arens. The last person you were talking about was Roland
Botelho.

Mr. Penha. The next pei^son, Louis Dimitroff. His legal name,
although always popularly known as Louis Dimitroff, is Louis Dimit-
roff Kushaff. He was one of the parties in the estate of Maud D'haze.
His home was also used as a front for bulk material from the Com-
munist Party. He is from New Bedford, Massachusetts.

Tillie Cropper, New Bedford. She is a sister of Olga Garczynski.

John Harrison. His whereabouts at the present is in Connecticut.
He is a son of Maud D'haze. He did in some way create a block, so
to speak, in the will, by demanding that part of the moneys and
estate be given to him, which was done.

Albert Tremblay, New Bedford. Albert Tremblay was used as a
mail front for party literature and publications. He also distributed
them to party people who did not want them to be sent directly to
their homes. He was also responsible for collecting of dues.

Ethel Smith, South Dartmouth, Massachusetts. She was quite ac-
tive in legitimate organizations in carrying out the party line.

Edward Teixeira. He was last known to me to be in the Boston
area.

I may add that Teixeira was recruited into the party by Douglas
Perry.

Again I wish to make emphasis on the fact that a colonizer as such
is equipped with many virtues and with many capabilities. This is
indicative of one of them.

Alphedge Carreau, New Bedford, textile worker, who had an ex-
treme influence among the workers and officers of the plant he was
working at in New Bedford.

Guilnerme Hilario was active in a Communist front organization.

Incidentally, for the information of the committee, he recently made
a visit to the Azores, Portuguese colony, and as I understand it, they
have to fill out certain forms in so far as Communist activities go.

Phil Mamber. His last whereabouts, to my knowledge, is in the
Boston area. He was of tremendous influence in New Bedford at
their Berkshire-Hathaway Mills.

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to the District Metals
Commission of the Communist Party. We have already talked about
the members of the Communist Party known by you in Fall River,

communttst AcnvrriEiS in the new en<3LAnd area 2281

Massachusetts. So I invite your attention now to the subject of the
District Metals Commission of the Communist Party. First of all,
tell us what is or was the District Metals Commission of the Com-
munist Party?

Mr, Penha. The District Metals Commission is an organization
set up by the party for the party, a tool of the party to carry out the
party discipline, the party policy within the vital industries in New
England in various forms, particularly, I may add, in the legislative
field.

Mr. Arens. Wlio is chairman of the National Metals Commission
of the Communist Party ?

Mr. Penha. The chairman of the National Metals Commission is
Walter Bariy.

Mr. Arens. Is he located in New York ?

Mr. Penha. New York area, yes, sir.

Mr. Arens. Now give us the names, please, of the persons known
by you to a certainty to be members of the Communist New England
District Metals Commission ?

Mr. Penha. Eddie Garfield, Douglas Perry, Kobert Goodwin, Paul
Rosenkrants, Alex Leith, and Abe Hoffman. I attended several of
their meetings, but I was not a direct member as such.

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, it is approaching the hour which the
Chair announced its intention to recess.

I suggest to the Chair we have arrived at a point in the general
pattern of interrogation where it might we well to suspend for the
evening.

Mr. Moulder. Very well. The committee will recess until ten
o'clock tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 9 : 50 p. m., Wednesday, March 19, 1958, the sub-
committee recessed to reconvene at 10 a. m., Thursday, March 20,
1958.)

^?.cro.

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