HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
NEW ENGLAND AREA— PART 3
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMEMCAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE EEPRESENTATIYES
EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGKESS
SECOND SESSION
MARCH 14, 20, AND 21, 1958
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
INCLUDING INDEX
UNITED STATES
OOVEHNIMENT PRINTING OFFICE
2477. WASHINGTON : 1958
HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY
DEPOSITED BY THE
UNITED STATES GOFERNMfiNB
JliS^13l958
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New Yoil<
CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACICSON. California
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio
WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia ROBERT J. McINTOSH, Michigan
Richard Arens, Staff Director
CONTENTS
PART 1
Page
Synopsis 2081
Tuesday, March 18, 1958: Testimony of —
Armando Penha 2090
Afternoon session:
Armando Penha (resumed) 2111
Ralph C. Lofskv 2133
Samuel Appel 2139
Armando Penha (resumed) 2151
Samuel Appel (resumed) 2152
Otis Archer Hood 2156
Anne Burlak Timpson 2158
Joseph Sherman 2164
PART 2
Wednesday, March 19, 1958: Testimony of —
Irving Fishman 2174
Eleanor Suske 2174
Dorothv Friedman 2192
Muriel Gravelle Mc Avoy 2201
Afternoon session:
T.ouis C. Wyman 2204
Sidnev Ravden 2224
David Murray Fein (Fine) 2230
Manuel Cordeiro, Jr 2241
Olga Garczynski 2246
Harold Lester Lewengrub 2250
J ames Rex 2256
Evening session:
Daniel Boone Schirmer 2258
Armando Penha (resumed) 2268
PART 3
Thursday, March 20, 1958: Testimony of—
Carol Harris Foster 2284
Albert D' Orlando (executive testimony, ^ March 14, 1958, Wash-
ington, D. C.) 2311
Afternoon session:
Arnold Schwartz 2321
Paul S. Rosenkrants 2328
Robert Handman 2337
Elias Snitzer 2340
Homer B. Chase 2356
George Sheldrick 2362
Anthony DiBiase 2364
Douglas Neil Perry 2367
Armando Penha (resumed) 2371
Douglas Neil Perry (resumed) 2372
Jerrv (Jerome) Olrich 2377
Joseph K. Chase 2381
Friday, Marcli 21, 1958: Testimony of—
Armando Penha (resumed) 2388
Rov Rogerson 2403
Philip W. Lefavour 2405
Benning Maskicwicz 2412
John Russo 2416
John G. Hovan 2417
' Released by the committee and ordered to be printed.
in
Public Law 601, 79th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is PubHc Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter
753, 2d session, which provides:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Represenlatives of the United States
of A^nerica in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES
*******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in tlie United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary
remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the resultsof any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
*******
Rule XII
LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES
Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces-
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the jurisdic-
tion of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports
and data sul^mitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of
the Government.
V
\
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 85TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1957
*******
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con-
gress,
*******
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
*******
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
*******
26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House bv
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
NEW ENGLAND AREA— PART 3
thursday, march 20, 1958
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Boston, Mass.
public hearing
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m. in courtroom No. 3, United States
Courthouse and Post Office Building, Boston, Mass., Hon. Clyde
Doyle presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Clyde Doyle of Cali-
fornia and Bernard W. Kearney of New York.
Staff members present: Richard Arens, staff director; George C
Williams and Frank Bonora, investigators.
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order.
Let the record show that the chairman of the full committee, Fran-
cis E. Walter of Washington, D. C, has reconstituted the subcommit-
tee here for the purpose of these continued hearings, to consist of Mr.
Moulder of Missouri, who is absent today in Washington of necessity,
Bernard Kearney of New York, who is here and on my right, with
myself, Clyde Doyle of California, acting as chairman.^
Therefore, under our rules with the subcommittee of 3, 2 makes a
quorum and a quorum is present, and we will proceed.
Mr. Mcintosh of Michigan, also, was called back to Washington last
night, he and Mr. Moulder to be there necessarily today on some im-
portant matters on the floor of the House of Representatives, in which
they were personally concerned.
Are you ready, Mr. Arens ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
1 The order reconstituting the subcommittee is as follows :
March 20, 1958.
To : Mr. Richard Arens,
Staff Director, House Committee on Un-American Activities.
Pursuant to the provisions of law and the rules of this committee, I hereby appoint a
subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, consisting- of Representative
Morgan M. Moulder, as chairman, and Representatives Clyde Doyle and Bernard W.
Kearney, as associate members, to continue with the holding of hearings in Boston. Mass.,
in the place and stead of the subcommittee heretofore appointed, on subjects under investi-
gation by the committee and to take such testimony on this day or succeeding days as It
may deem necessary.
Please make this action a matter of committee record.
Given under uiy hand this 20th day of March 1958.
Pkancis E. Walter,
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities.
2283
2284 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mrs. Carol H. Foster, kindly come forward and assume the witness
chair. Kemain standing, please, Mrs. Foster, while the chairman
administers an oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. I know we will have the cooperation of the press in tak-
ing pictures before a witness is sworn but not after they are sworn,
during the testimony.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Foster. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, ma'am. If you will be seated, please.
TESTIMONY OF MES. CAROL HAEEIS FOSTEE (ACCOMPANIED BY
HEE HUSBAND, WILLIAM FOSTEE)
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mrs. Foster. I am Carol Harris Foster. I live at 96 Wellington
Street, Nashua, N. H. I am a housewife.
Mr. Arens. Kindly keep your voice up a little bit, please.
Mrs. Foster. I don't think I can talk that loud.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mrs. Foster, in the company
of your husband, William Foster ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I am.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, have you been a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I have.
Mr. Arens. Have your connections with the Communist Party at
any time ever been severed, either through resignation, expulsion, or
some kind of public revelation ?
Mrs. Foster. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arens. Now I expect in the course of the interrogation to get
into a number of items respecting your career in the Communist
Party, but for present purposes may I ask if you have ever had any
ideological sympathies with the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. No, I haven't.
Mr. Arens. Your identification and services with the Communist
Party are and have been exclusively and solely as an undercover agent
of the FBI and as a person who has been cooperating with the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities, is that correct ?
Mrs. Foster. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Have you been directly or indirectly in contact with
any other agency of any state, local, or national government in your
undercover work in the Communist Party ?
M]'S. Foster. No, I haven't.
Mr. Arens. Your work has been solely and exclusively as an under-
cover agent for the FBI and this committee, is that correct?
Mrs. Foster. That is true.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, I should like to have just a word on this
record of your own personal background, a Avord about your own life.
Mrs. Foster. Well, I was born in a town in Nashua, N. II., in the
year 1913, December 6. And I lived there most of my young life.
Mr. Arens. Would you excuse me a moment, please, Mrs. Foster ?
I wonder, Mr. Foster, if you could push those microphones a little
closer to her so the public address system would pick up her voice a
COMMUNIST AcnvrriES m the new enoland area 2285
little clearer and the committee would be better able to hear her testi-
mony.
Mrs. Foster. I was educated in that area in the public schools, in
private schools in ]\Iassachusetts and in New Hampshire.
Mr. Arens. In passing, may I ask if you and Mr. Foster have
children ?
Mrs. Foster. We have two sons, one 21 and one 16.
Mr. Arens. And where are the children now ?
Mrs. Foster. One is a junior at Cornell University and studying
electrical engineering, and the other one is a sophomore in the Nashua
high school.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, may I ask when was it that your children
learned for the first time that you are and have been for several years
an undercover agent in the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Night before last.
Mr. Arens. Tell us, if you please, if it isn't too personal — if it is,
we certainly don't want to probe — what transpired in the process of
your enlightenment of your children of your work ?
Mrs. Foster. I phoned my son out in Ithaca, N. Y., and he couldn't
believe it. He said, "Not my little mommy."
Mr. Arens. That is your son who goes to Cornell ?
Mrs. Foster. Cornell.
Mr. Arens. When did you join the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. I joined in June, spring of 1947.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us the circumstances which
caused you to join the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. I was living on Cape Cod in Cotuit at the time, dur-
ing the war in my husband's absence, and I wanted to get into some
community activity, so I became a den mother. I had 16 Cub Scouts,
and therefore I was asked to go to Hyannis and talk to mothers and
fathers about working with Cub Scouts. At that time I was intro-
duced to an FBI agent, and I just sort of jokingly asked him if he had
any job that I might have in a position as a woman working for the
FBI. He said no, women were not given the jobs in the FBI.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, may I ask you, if convenient, for a little
different arrangement on the microphones ? Frankly, I thinlv perhaps
I am about the only one here who is actually hearing your testimony.
The committee is another several feet away and having difficulty
hearing.
Mr. Kearney. The one in the middle. That might be helpful.
Mrs. Foster. It seems I can hear things in my ears.
Mr. Arens. If the person who is operating this sound public-
address system might be able to work with it a little perhaps it would
be a little easier for us to discern just what you are saying. Proceed.
Mrs. Foster. Do you want me to repeat ?
Mr. Arens. I believe if you go ahead on the theme that you
were pursuing when you approached the agent of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation.
Mrs. Foster. I asked him if there was a job in their organization for
me, because I wanted to do some sort of work during the war and I
like investigative work. They said no, they didn't hire women; but
they did have a job, a veiy hard job and a very interesting job, and
one that would be very helpful to my country if I would be inter-
ested and so
2286 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGL.\ND AREA
Mr. x\rexs. When, please?
Mrs. Foster. That was hi 1945, in the fall of 1945.
So I was asked to — no, I was told what it would be about, and it
was to be about collecting information and evidence on Communist
activities in this part of the country, and I was given a week to think
it over.
Mr. AiiExs. Did you discuss it with your husband ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arexs. He has been thorouglily kept abreast of your activities
as an undercover agent in the Communist Party, is that correct?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, he has.
Mr. Arens. I think it might be interesting for our record if you
tell us what Bill's job is.
Mrs. Foster. He is a sales director for the Nashua Corp. in Nashua,
N. H. And I would like to say right here that without him I never
could have done it. lie spent many sleepless nights, and he is a
wonderful guy, worrying about me.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, would you kincllj^ proceed. In 1945 you
liad that arrangement worked out. How long was it before you
actually did assume, by techniques which we don't need to explore
now, full status in tlie Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. It was from the fall of 1945 until the spring of 1947.
Mr. Arens. It was almost 2 years before you actually were admit-
ted into membersliip in the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. That is right.
Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you on the basis of your back-
ground and experience as an undercover agent in the Communist
Party how serious is the Communist Party now, this minute, in the
New England area ?
Mrs. Foster. I tliink it is more serious than it has ever been in
the entire history of the party.
Mr. Arens. How can that be, INIrs. Foster, when we see and hear
pronouncements to the effect that the number of Communists has
been reduced, and we hear statements, public statements, by certain
officials to tlie effect that the American people will never go for
communism? How can you, as an undercover agent in the Commu-
nist Party, with years of extensive experience, make the statement
that the Communist Party is today more a menace, more serious, than
ever before ?
Mrs. Foster. Those who are left in the Communist Party are what
I call dyed-in-the-woolei's. They are hard-core Communists, if I
may repeat what I have heard liere. They are very, very clever.
They know liow to manipulate themselves into all kinds of organiza-
tions, into trade unions, into schools, colleges, and almost any organi-
zation of any importance in this country.
Mr. Arens. They multiply their influence, do they not, by getting
at nerve centers in our country ?
Mrs. Foster. I don't know if tliey multiply tlie numbers.
Mr. Arens, I say their influence.
Mrs. Foster. Yes, their influence, that is true they do, and they are
very hard to detect by the average American because really on the
surface they are just like you and inc. T find, if I didn't know who
they were — they are A-ery brilliant people, well spoken, a lot of them,
well read, and it is verv difficult to know who they are.
COMMUNItST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2287
Mr. Arens. Is there any question in yonr mind but what the Com-
munist operation in the United States with its thousands of partici-
pants and its tens of thousands, if not liundreds of thousands of per-
sons under Communist discipline, is part and parcel of a conspiracy
controlled from Moscow ?
Mrs. Foster. There is no doubt whatsoever.
Mr. Arens. May we revert to the chronology of your activity in the
Communist conspiracy and ask you to tell us who recruited you into
the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Joy Clark.
Mr. Arens. And give us just a word about Joy Clark.
Mrs. Foster. Joy Clark was a colonizer, a young girl who was sent
to Nashua to work in textile mills there and to head the Connnunist
movement in the soutiiern part of New Hampshire. Do you want
me to
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify Joy Clark as a person
known by you to be a Communist ?
Mrs. Foster. I will have to go back a little bit. I have to go back
to Cape Cod.
After I gave my answer, "Yes," to this FBI agent, I was informed
that Joe Figueiredo in New^ Bedford, a Communist, was giving radio
broadcasts every Aveekend, and it was suggested that I listen to them
and that I mail him a letter telling that I was interested in the party,
wiiich I did. He wrote me a letter and asked me to come and see him.
I made many calls on him. When I got ready to leave Cape Cod
and come back to New Hampshire at the end of the war, he suggested
that I get in contact with Elba Chase Nelson who was chairman of
the Communist Party in New Hampshire, and I believe he must have
written her a letter. I went up to see her, and after that call she came
down and saw me and brought Joy Clark and introduced her and
said I would be working with her at Nashua and named her as a Com-
munist. I am sorry to take so long.
Mr. Arens. That is perfectly all right. What were Joy Clark's
duties in Nashua ?
Mrs. Foster. She was supposed to call meetings and recruit new-
Communists and to work within her union, to work on the bosses of
the union to try to carry the party line along in the union work. She
didn't have very much luck, but she tried.
Mr. Arens. Did she subsequently leave New Hampshire ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes. She did. She finally left. She wasn't there
too long.
Mr. Arens. I wonder if before we proceed further you would tell
us about your own experience in respect to Communist Party dis-
cipline over the individuals, in the lives of the individual comrades.
Mrs. Foster. My own experience ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mrs. Foster. AVell, I was expected to do what I was told to do, re-
gardless of whether it happened to be a church day or party planned
with my husband or something to do with the children. If there was
something they wanted done, it wouldn't have set well if I hadn't
done it. If a meeting was called, I was certainly expected to be there
regardless.
2288 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Arens. How, may I ask you, did you keep your activities within
the conspiracy — and I know you had to go all over the New England
area — from the children ?
Mrs. Foster. I do have very curious children so it was a little
harder perhaps than it would have been with some children who
didn't pay much attention. I made up a lot of stories, and my family
does a lot of hunting, fishing, golfing, all the prevailing sports you
can name in New Hampshire because we have one of the most wonder-
ful states in the whole country for tiiat, so it was very easy for me to
say that I was going fishing and that I was going hunting, or I used
the camera also as a front.
Mr. Arens. You are a camera fan ?
Mrs. Foster. I was. At that time I was an amateur, but I did do
newspaper work, and I have been doing newspaper work since the
beginning of the war.
And I am willing to have any and all pictures taken whenever you
allow them to be taken, but they may not be very good.
Mr. Arens. Thank you.
But you kept your husband advised at all times of all of your moves ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I did. He was my babysitter a great deal of the
time.
Mr. Arens. In view of the atheistic nature of the conspiracy, anti-
God concepts, were you able as a comrade and undercover agent to
keep your children in Sunday school ?
Mrs. Foster. Well, I wasn't able to send them — I would have been,
at the risk perhaps of being scolded or maybe worse than that, but I
felt that I had to send them to a Sunday school somewhere so I just
picked a Sunday school that was acceptable to them. I would rather
not name the church.
Mr. Arens. Did you hold office in the Communist Party in Nashua ?
Mrs. Foster. After a while Joy Clark left, then I had the duty of
secretary. I couldn't be a chairman of the group in Nashua because
I didn't belong to a union.
Mr. Arens. As secretary did you have access to the names of the
trusted comrades ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. Did you hold any other offices in the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. After awhile I was invited to participate in the state
executive meetings of the Communist Party in New Hampshire.
Mr. Arens. Was the New Hampshire State Committee part of a
larger entity of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, it was. It was within District 1 of New England.
Mr. Arens. District 1 encompassed New England?
Mrs. Foster. New England.
Mr. Arens. Where are the headquarters of District 1?
Mrs. Foster. Boston.
Mr. Arens. Based on your experience in the Communist Party,
could you tell us whether or not the Communist Party is a political
party.'
Mrs. Foster. No, it is not.
Mr. Arens. "Wliat is it?
Mrs. FosiTiR. It is a conspiracy.
Mr. Arens. May we revert to the chronology of your career ? T\^at
were your duties as secretary of the Communist Party of Nashua ?
I
COMMUNIST ACTTVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2289
Mrs. Foster. I was supposed to collect dues aud spread party prop-
aganda. I was supposed to call meetings, send out cards, tell them
when meetings would be, and sometimes I would have to contact a
speaker who was coming from Boston, from the Boston office; and I
contacted various sympathizers and fellow travelers who would be in-
terested in the written matter that we had.
Mr. Arens. In this capacity you, of course, had the opportunity to
learn the identity of other Communists in the vicinity, did you not ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Did the Nashua group include people other than from
the immediate corporate limits of the city ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, it did.
Mr. Arens. What general area was included in the Nashua group ?
Mrs. Foster. Eeally the central southern area of the state. Bo you
want me to give boundaries ?
Mr. Arens. Please.
Mrs. Foster. They went about as far west as Wilton, New Hamp-
shire, and Nashua, Hudson. That is about it,
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, would you kindly give us the name of each
person who to your certain knowledge was a Communist in the Nashua
vicinity, and give us a word about each one of them, a word of char-
acterization or description, please?
Mrs. Foster. The number one Communist family in Nashua, New
Hampshire was the Dobrowolski family.
Mr. Arens. And who in that family were comrades, to your knowl-
edge ?
Mrs. Foster. In that family the mother was Kate Dobrowolski.
She was in the beginning working in the mill and a very strong union
person. She attended meetings and paid her dues. Then Eddie
Dobrowolski was her son, and he had a store in the front of their home.
He was quite active in the early days. He attended meetings, and he
distributed Workers, Sunday Workers.
Louise Dobrovrolski was the daughter of the family, and she sort
of worked along with me after she returned home from wherever she
went to school, I guess. After Joy Clark left, she and I really did
things together in Nashua.
She was chairman of the Nashua branch when I was secretary, at
least for part of the time, and she worked on mimeographing letters
along with me, as Joy Clark had done before. And we spread them
about the area. The meetings were held in her house, and they were
held quite frequently in the early days. She later married Hugo
De Gregory.
Then we have John Nahorski.
Mr. Arens. Where is he now ?
Mrs. Foster. He is now in Poland. He went to Poland of his own
volition just before 1950. He was a very close friend of Dobrowolskis
and lived right near them.
And there were Mr. and INIrs, John Twardoski. Tliey were an old
couple, occasionally came to meetings and paid their dues. And I do
not have much else to say about them. They were very friendly with
Dobrowolskis also.
There were Mr. and Mrs. George O'Brien. He was on relief, un-
able to get work, and they were elderly. I collected dues from them
the same as the others. I went to see them a few times. And they
2290 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
came to just one or two meetings that I can recall. They were really
quite elderly. I don't even know if they are living now or not.
Then there was Joy Clark, of course, whom I mentioned. Do you
want me at this time to go into Joy Clark a little more since she is
going to be leaving soon.
Mr. Arens. Yes, if you please.
Mrs. Foster. She started recruiting me and another family in town
by holding meetings, indoctrination meetings on Marxism and the
w\ays of the Communist Party. At least two of those boys in that
family would be with me Avhen she was explaining the Communist
Party to us, and that is all that she did in the way of lessons or
schooling. But she introduced me to most of the people, the majority
of the people that I think that I mentioned who were Communists,
Joy introduced me to, including a lot of people in Boston and people
in the states that she knew at that time.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, I think that this might be an appropriate
time for me to aslc you about the cut-out, security system in the Com-
munist Party. One comrade within one unit of the Communist Party
would not necessarily know who other comrades were in other units,
isn't that correct '(
Mrs. Foster. That is true.
Mr. Arexs. You were an undercover agent for the FBI, were you
not?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I was.
Mr. Arens. Did you know Armando Penha, who was likewise an
undercover agent for the FBI ?
Mrs. Foster. No, I didn't.
Mr. Arens. You didn't know him at all ?
Mrs. Foster. No, I didn't. Of course, lie didn't start until after I
was about through.
Mr. Arens. I see.
jSIrs. Foster. Otherwise, I might have met him at meetings.
Mr. Arens. The Comnmnist Party has a very tight security system,
does it not ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, it does.
Mr. iVRENS. In which they do not let some comrades know^ who other
comrades are?
Mrs. Foster. That is true.
Mr. Arens. It is very difficult for Government agencies to get
folks and to penetrate
INIrs. Foster. Yes, it is.
Mr. Arens. tlie inner sanctums in order to see a complete pat-
tern, isn't that correct?
Mrs. Foster. That is true. The only way that I think that can be
taken care of is for the American people to be educated as to how
these people operate. No matter who is pulling the strings somebody
has to be out there as a puppet. And I think that wdien the mothers
and fathers and the people of this country are thoroughly aware of
exactly how this thing works, with party members working on the
outside, we won't have anything more to worry about.
Mr. Arens. You told "me, and I think it might be well to direct
your attention to it. You told me at one time if it weren't for the
"Connmniist Party dupes in the United States, people who do the job
I
COMMUNIST ACTIY1TIE.S IN THE NEW EiNGLAND AREA 2291
of the Communist Party with the Communists pulling the strings, we
wouldn't have anything to worry about. That was the essence of
what you told me.
Mrs. Foster. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Do yon care to elaborate on that at this time, the extent
to which the hard-core operatives multiply their elfectiveness by get-
ting dupes, and the like, to do their work ?
Mrs. Foster. Well, they are. Right now, of course, is a wonderful
time for the party to be working because of this recession with some
people out of work, and they can get people easier if they are either a
little neurotic or down-trodden or having hard times, and they really
like that. As a matter of fact, when I first entered the party, they
were rather disappointed that we didn't have another depression, and
we often discussed that. They said it was a little slow coming, but
it might be along pretty soon.
Mr. Arens. Now may we proceed with identification of persons
known by you there to be members of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. To finish up with Joy Clark. She left us about— oh,
about — 2 years after I had known her for 2 years and went to
New Bedford, and she told me she was going doAvn there to be
trained to become a countrywide worker in union methods and or-
ganization. And as far as I know, she went down there and did
some kind of newspaper work and reports or something for the Daily
Worker in that area. I am not certain.
Mr. Arens. She is presently out on the coast ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes. She and Joe Figueiredo, if they are still to-
gether, should be out in California somewhere.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed with the next one ?
Mrs. Foster. There is Mike Biturnis.
Mr. Arens. I think it is only fair, Mr. Chairman, for me to recite
that on the basis of information which we have, I\Iike Biturnis, who
was a one-time member of the Communist Party, has since 1954
cooperated with Government agencies and is no longer in the party.
Can you confirm that, Mrs. Foster ?
Mrs. Foster. I cannot.
Mr. Arens. You cannot confirm that ?
Mrs. Foster. I didn't know that, No.
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mrs. Foster. He was sort of a little bit over a middle-aged man,
and when Joy first came to Nashua she had a mimeograph machine
in one of his rooms in the center of the city of Nashua. I went there
with her, and I don't Imow that slic slept there, but she cooked her
meals there because I helped her. I also helped her mimeograph
some leaflets there. And that is all that I have to say about Mike
Biturnis. He may have come to a meeting, but I don't recall ever
seeing him at certainly not very many. Then, that of course was my
first year, 1947. Then we go to Benny, the Iceman, Maskiewicz.
Mr. Arens. His first name is Benny ?
Mrs. Foster. Benny.
Mr. Arens. He is under subpena.
Mrs. Foster. "The Iceman" goes in between.
Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him please.
Mrs. Foster. He is a very pleasant individual. He was a dyed-
in-the-wooler as far as Communists go. He is a very close friend of
2292 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
the Dobrowolski family. Pie drank a little heavily so he wasn't too
dependable for the party work, but he did help us out when he could.
Mr. Arens. Did he contribute to the party ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, he did. Ke contributed regularly to the party
financially and paid his dues when we could catch him.
Mr. Arens. Is he a citizen, or is he an alien ?
Mrs. Foster. I think he had been in this country at that time about
52 years, and I remember very clearly he was not. He did not have
any papers. I don't know very much about citizenship papers, but
he didn't have any.
Mr. Arens. Is there another name, please ?
Mrs. Foster. I might add that there were picnics held at his — he
raised hogs in the town of Hudson, and it is where Hugo De Gregory
lives now. He held picnics there. The party held picnics there to
which members of the Boston Communist Party and surrounding
areas occasionally came.
Two people who came that I remember one day were Dave and
Ed Rosenberg.
The next one is Jacob Eida. He was introduced to me by Elba
Chase Nelson. In fact, Elba would come down on the train, and I
would drive her around. "We would visit various people, and take
information to them and eitlier collect their dues or money from them
and sort of keep them in toucli with the party. Some of them would
be fellow travelers.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chainnan, I think it only fair for me to announce
that it is our information that Jacob Eida has become disassociated
from the Communist Party and has cooperated with Government
agencies.
Mrs. Foster. Yes, that is true. I know that. He was expelled
from the party. And would you like to know the reason why he
was expelled ?
He had some friends who came over from Poland, I think it was
Poland, but I could be wrong, but one of the countries dominated
by Russia, and he learned from them that things were not the way
they had been painted to him over here, that they are liaving a very
hard time and people really were down, being held under the iron
thumb and that these people had gotten out of the country, come oyer
here to live a good life. After they told him all the little details,
he just wouldn't have any more to do with the party here.
Mr. Arens. Is there another name ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes. A minister and his wife — a Unitarian minister
and his wife, Polly and Albert D'Orlando, lived in the town of Wil-
ton. He had a church in Wilton and also one in Bedford.
ISIr. Arens. Where is he located now, Mrs. Foster ?
Mrs. Foster. I wouldn't know where he is right now except that
I seem to remember that he went south somewhere toward Texas. _
INIr. Arens. He is now in New Orleans. He has a large church in
New Orleans there.
Mrs. Foster. Oh, he does ?
Mr. Arens. Is Ins name Albert D'Orlando?
Mrs, Foster. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify the Reverend Albert
D'Orlando as a person who to your certain knowledge was a member
of the Communist Party ?
COMMUNIST ACnVrriES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2293
Mrs. Foster. I do.
Mr. Arens. Did you collect dues from the Reverend Albert D'Or-
lando ?
Mrs. Foster. I did.
Mr. Aeens. YiliQn did you collect dues, over what period of time
did you collect dues from the Reverend Albert D'Orlando ?
Mrs. Foster. Before 1950, because I went with Hugo De Gregory
to re-register him in 1950 and he refused to be re-registered then.
Mr. Areis-s. In 1950 D'Orlando refused to be re-registered as a
Communist, is that correct ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes. He was very upset over Philbrick's testimony
and said that he had known him.
Mr. Arens. Did he announce to you that he was becoming dis-
associated from the Communist Party or did he give some expla-
nation
Mrs. Foster. No, he didn't.
Mr. Arens. as to why he would not re-register in your par-
ticular group of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. I am sorry. I can't recall what he said about it other
than tliat. But he did say that he preferred to go to meetings down
around the Boston area, than he did to ours, because he had a lot of
friends down there. And that is Avliere he read his papers. He
wouldn't buy the Daily Worker or the Sunday Worker from me. He
didn't take a subscription because his parishioners had access to his
house and could come any time they wanted to. They told me, both
of them, that they read their papers down there, not their papers, but
somebody's papers.
Mr. Arens. I should like to get the record clear on this. In 1950,
when he told you that he was attending meetings in the Boston area
and therefore
Mrs. Foster. Gatherings in the Boston area, I don't Imow that
they were formal meetings, just gatherings.
Mr. Arens. Did he indicate to you whether or not those meetings
that he was then attending in Boston were Communist meetings?
Mrs. Foster. He didn't announce that they were Communist meet-
ings. But my understanding was that they were.
Mr. Arens. Did you know his wife, Polly D'Orlando, to be a
Communist ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Did you collect Communist Party dues from her ?
Mrs. Foster. I collected for her from her husband.
Mr. Arens. Is there another name ?
Mrs. Foster. Hugo De Gregory is my next name. He first came to
Nashua ; I first met him when he was sent there by the Boston office
to give some classes in Marxism. Louise Dobrowolski and I had gone
down to the office here in Boston and asked for material whicli we
Avould like to have Phil Bineau teach us as he had offered to teach us.
And they very nicely gave us everything that we needed and said that
they would send it. We talked to Mrs. Timpson about this and Ann
Garfield and, I believe, Dave Rosenberg at that time. We made an
appointment from the Progressive Book Shop before we went up to
the office to be sure it was all right to go up there. Then after we
got home, I got a letter, or we got a letter, I don't rem.ember which of
24777— 58— pt. 3 2
2294 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
US it was, stating that Hugo De Gregory would be coming to teacli the
classes, and there were about 9, for sure, classes lield in tlie various
subjects.
Mr. Arens. Before we go to the next name, I would like to revert,
again to the Keverend Albert D'Orlando. Is there any possibility
that the payments made by D'Orlando to you were not Communist
Party dues ?
Mrs. Foster. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arexs. Did you collect them as dues ?
Mrs. Foster. I did. Only once or twice, however, because I went
with other people the other times.
Mr. Arens. Are you absolutely certain that the Reverend Albert
D'Orlando was a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I am.
Mr. Arens. As of what period of time? What was the latest date?
Mrs. Foster. I was taken and introduced to them by Elba Chase
Nelson, and she was the one who introduced me to them as Com-
munists.
Mr. Arens. What is the latest period of time at which you can to a
certainty swear that the Reverend Albert D'Orlando was a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Well, Hugo and I went to re-register him in 1950,
sometime in 1950, and it may have been a lapse of a few months over
the time that we should have gone, but I vrould say it was safe to say
a year and a half before that he had been registered.
Mr. Arens. And he said he would not re-register because of Phil-
brick's testimony, is that correct ?
Mrs, Foster. I would like to say that it is possible that Philbrick
hadn't testified at that time and he might have said that at some other
time when I went there. There is a possibility of that. But he
did say that to me, and I saw them right after it happened. And
they were very upset about jt. And they left there soon after that.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, I think that I should announce to you
that Reverend D'Orlando was subpenaed to appear before the com-
mittee in executive session. The announcement I am making now is
after consultation with the members of the committee, that in the
course of the interrogation iii executive session of the Reverend
D'Orlando in Washington we asked him in effect whether or not he
had ever been a member of the Communist Party. He invoked his
constitutional privileges up to and including 1945 or 1946. There-
after, we asked him about Communist Party activities and member-
ship and he asserted that at a period after about 1945 or 1946 he had
made payments or contriljutions to the Communist Party but denied
that he had paid money as dues. That is the reason why I am press-
ing you on this point. Are you certain tliat since 1945 or '46 you,
Avdiile an undercover agent of the FBI, can testify that the Reverend
D'Orlando did pay not just contributions or a money gift, but dues
to the Communist Party?
Mrs. Foster. I would like to say — could I say this: That reports
were sent in on this to the FBI here in Boston, and I am sure they
\vill be available to you on that. And may I answer that^
Mr, Arens. I would rather not get into that subject matter now.
I would like to see if you
COMMUNIST ACTrVITaES IN THE INTEW ENGLAND AREA 2295
Mrs. Foster. I am certain.
Mr. Arens. Are you certain ?
Mrs. Foster. I am not going to change that. That is what I sent
to the FBI here in Boston, and I had his card with me with everything
to fill out on it.
Mr. Arens. What card was it that you had ?
Mrs. Foster. I had cards that had the amount that they got, and
they usually received stamps for their dues.
Mr. Arens. These were Communist Party cards ?
Mrs. Foster. It wasn't the card that they carried. It was a card
that I had.
Mr. Arens. Communist Party record card?
Mrs. Foster. A reference card.
Mr. Arens. Where were the sessions held when j'ou collected Com-
munist Party dues from the Reverend D'Orlando ?
Mrs. Foster. It was in his own home at Wilton.
Mr. Arens. In his own home in Wilton. Do you recall approxi-
mately where his home was in town ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I do.
Mr. Arens. Could you tell us ? I have never been in that vicinity
at all,
Mrs. Foster. Actually it is Wilton Center. You go through Wil-
ton and go to Wilton Center, and when you come to the blinker, there
is only one, the house is immediately across the street on the right.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, do you have a recollection of the approxi-
mate amount of the Communist Party dues which you have collected
rdnce 1945 from the Reverend D'Orlando, your best recollection, your
best estimate or judgment ?
Mrs. Foster. I can't remember whether it was a dollar or $5. It's
been too long.
Mr. Arens. May we please proceed to the next name ?
Mrs. Foster. Oliver Williamson, who was chief of police of Mil-
ford, N.H.
Mr. Arens. And he was a member of the Comnninist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. lie was at one time.
Mr. Arens. I think it only fair, Mr. Chairman, for me to announce
that based upon confidential information we are satisfied that Oliver
Williamson has disassociated himself from the Communist Party and
has cooperated with Government agencies.
Mr, Ivearney. That is the f ormei* chief of police ?
Mr. Arens, Yes, sir.
Next name, if you please, ma'am.
Mrs. Foster. Charles C. Beebe, Hollis, N. H. He is a long-time
Communist and gentleman farmer.
Mr. Arens. Charles C, is that correct ?
Mrs. Foster. That is right. He was really our financial contribu-
tor in that area. He gave us money fairly regularly, sometimes in
small amounts, sometimes in a larger amount.
Mr. Arens. It is only fair, Mr. Chairman, for me to likewise an-
nounce publicly that it is our information from authentic sources that
Charles C. Beebe of Hollis, N, IL, has since 1953, become disassociated
from the Communist Party and has cooperated with Govei-mnent
agencies.
2296 OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AEEA
In addition to the actual Communist Party members of tlio Nashua
group, were there persons who were not Communists who contributed
lieavily to the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Foster. I wouldn't say that they contributed heavily, but they
contributed.
Mr. Akens. Strike the word heavily, but they contributed.
Mrs. Foster. Yes, there were, and they contributed olf and on in
varying amounts.
Mr. Arens. We do not want you on this j)ublic record to name such
persons, but did you find in your Communist Party activity that the
Communist Party used sympathizers as well as innocent persons to
carry out the nefarious program of the conspiracy?
Mrs. Foster. Not very important jobs, of course. In a small way,
they helped, mostly just financially.
Mr. Arens. Do 3^ou have any recollection at the moment of an inci-
dent involving professors at the University of New Hampshire who
were to be used by the conspiracy, if possible ?
Mrs. Foster. When the PCA was first established in southern New
Hampshire.
Mr. Arens. That is the Progressive Citizens of America ?
Mrs. Foster. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Was that controlled by the conspiracy in New
Hampshire ?
Mrs. Foster. There were people in it who belonged to the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Arens. It was the forerumier of the Progressive Partv, was
it not? _
Mrs. Foster. Yes, it was. It came before Henry Wallace's party.
Mr. Arens. Would you excuse my several interruptions there? If
you will kindly proceed.
Mrs. Foster. Yes. We held a meeting at which Muriel Gravelle
was present and she was working at the State House in Concord at
the time. And the person who called this meeting, who was not a
Communist, whom I do not wish to name here, asked her if slie would
be able to get a list from her office of the professors at the University
of New Hampshire, and she said she thought she could, that she
would try. I do not know whether she got them or not.
Mr. Arens. The purpose of the attempt at least was to try to influ-
ence the professors, was it not ?
Mrs. Foster. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Specifically they were to be a target.
Mrs. Foster. They were to be used in some way, and I imagine to
swell the ranks of the PCA.
Mr. Arens. Muriel Gravelle has been identified publicly under
oath by a live witness as a member of the Communist Party yester-
day, and yesterday she appeared in response to a subpena before this
committee.
You have told us that you also have been on the New Hampshire
State Committ(^.e of the Communist Party or served in some of these
sessions of that committee, is that correct?
Mrs. Foster, Yes.
Mr. Arens. Would you give us the names now of the persons who
to your certain knowledge comprised the State Coimnittee of the
Communist Party of New Hampshire ?
COMMUNIST ACTIYITIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2297
Mrs. Foster. Elba Chase Nelson was the state chairman, and she
has been sort of the ruler of the roost in the Communist Party in
New Hampshire for soine long, long time. Muriel Gravelle was
secretary, and Abraham Welanko was the treasurer.
Other people on the committee at one time or another were Bueno
Wirkkila, he lived in Washington near Mrs. Nelson ; Sidney Golden-
berg, Berlin, N. H. : Charles Chase, at that time at the University of
New Hampshire; Harold Plorne, Berlin, N. H., and now in Florida,
I think ; Alex Karnikas, Goffstown ; Marian Welanko, the wife of
Abraham Welanko, lived in South Weir; and then myself. Other
people who are not listed here came and went occasional!}^ to take the
place of some of these who were absent, but not as a regular thing.
Mr. Arens. Now in connection with your duties as an officer of the
State Committee of the Communist Party and an officer of the Nashua
group of tlie Communist Party, did you have occasion to meet other
people of the Communist Party throughout the State of New
Hampshire?
Mrs. FosTEE. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. Would you please name the cities or areas of New
Hampshire and the Communist Party micmbers in each area with
whom you to a certainty became acquainted as Communists?
Mr. Foster. Do you want just the names or do you want
Mr. Arens. You might give us, if you please, a word about each,
if you have a recollection that you think would be appropriate.
]\Irs. Foster. There was IMuriel Grace Gravelle. She was an execu-
tive secretary of the Progressive Party, and she was secretary of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Is this the Concord-Hillsboro area, or central part of
the state ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, it is. She also edited a paper that was gotten
out every so often that went to Progressive Party members. Later on
she worked with the New England Citizens Concerned for Peace in
Boston after she left Concord and before she married Cliff McAvoy.
That was sometime around
Mr. Arens. May I interrupt here please ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. This Cliff McAvoy that you just mentioned is the hus-
band of one of the witnesses here j^esterday. Do you know whether
that individual was one of the stahvarts of the American Labor Party
in the State of New York ?
Mrs. FosiTR. Did I know that? No, the only thing that I Imew
was at the time she married him he was running for councilman, and
she was going to help with his campaign, and that is all I know.
]Mr. Arens. Do you know on what ticket he was running ?
Mrs. Foster. No, I am sorry I don't. She also was a national coun-
cilwoman for the Progressive Party.
And she left New Hampshire and went to Boston and from Boston
to New York. Elba Chase Nelson was chairman of the New Hamp-
shire — I already mentioned her — chairman of the New Hampshire
Communist Party. She, of course, in that
Mr. DoTLE. :May I inquire at that point about Elba Chase Nelson ?
Did you know her before she married Mr. Nelson ?
Mrs. Foster. No, I didn't.
2298 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. iViiENs. Is tliat Mr. Nelson, if you know, is he the Nelson of
the Nelson Case ?
Mrs. Foster. No.
Mr. Arei^^s. Any connection with it as far as you know ?
Mrs. Foster. No. He wasn't a member of the party. But he lost
his job as the post office rural carrier because of his connections.
Mr, Arens. Was she active in labor union circles, do you know?
Mrs. Foster. Elba Chase Nelson was in the early days. She told
many stories about the good work that they did long ago. Of course,
being chairman of the State Connnunist Party in New Hampshire
meant that she was also a member of the inner circle in Boston and
attended those meetings, district meetings in Boston.
Homer Chase, a son of Elba Nelson, was chairman of the Georgia
Communist Party. I am sorry I don't know the number of years.
He was jailed down there for something that he claims that he didn't
do and cited for contempt of court, and I guess he was bailed and he
jumped bail and came back up here to New Hampshire, and he is still
here. I just learned that he ran for selectman in the town of Wash-
ington and went from door to door to see everybody there, but he
didn't make out very well and lost the election.
Oliver Chase is another son of Elba's. I don't know where he
worked, but I often saw him around there, and he did have a small
home next to liis mother's, up the road.
Charles Chase is another son. He was at the University of New
Hampshire when I first knew him. He was a very brilliant lad. He
was a teacher later on, I believe, in some scliool near Boston.
Rachel Chase is the wife of Homer, Barbara Chase was the wife of
Oliver, and Doroth}^ was the wife of Charles. Quite a few of them.
And then Bueno Wirkkila was a neighbor of the Nelsons.
Roland Gray taught school in Newington, New Hampshire, if I
recall that correctly for one year at least. And I think he attended
the University of New Hampshire prior to that time. He was used,
just before Wallace, during the Wallace campaign, to get members
for the Progressive Party to work on that campaign. And he roamed
around the state doing that.
Then I have Bob Whitney. All I can say about him is that he ap-
peared at a closed Communist meeting.
And, of course, Douglas Perry. He was around for sometime. He
came to many of our meetings. Once and awhile he dominated a
meeting. He was a U. E. organizer, and he moved about so I couldn't
tell you exactly when he was where, but he was over near the coast
for awhile, and then he went down to Ncav Bedford. And he may
still be in New Bedford.
Mr. Arens. Now may I invite your attention to the Manchester
area in New Hamsphire and ask you to give us the name and a word
of description about the activities or identification of each person
who to a certainty was known by you to be in the Communist con-
spiracy ?
Mrs. Foster. First of all was Victor DeNauw. Meetings were held
in his house in Manchester. I never went to a closed Communist
meeting at his house. There were other people invited. Elizabeth
Gurley Flynn was one of them.
Mr. Arens. May I say, Mr. Chairman, in fairness to Victor De-
Nauw, that it is the information of our committee from authoritative
CO'MMUlSniST ACT'IVITIES: IN THE NEW EnSTGLAND AREA 2299
sources that since 1954 Victor DeNauw has been disassociated from the
Communist Party and has cooperated fully with Government agen-
cies ?
Mrs. Foster. James O'Donnell, at the time I first knew him, had
lost his job with the Manchester mill because he had been using too
Red tactics in the union there. And I believe that he used to work
for Charles Beebe.
Mr. Arens. May I say, Mr. Chairman, that the same observation
pertains to James O'Donnell that pertains to Victor DeNauw, namely
that he likewise has since 1954 been disassociated from the Communist
Party and has cooperated with Government agencies ?
Mrs. Foster. Charles Theodore, I think he was Greek. All I thinlv
of is bananas when I think of him, but I am sure he had a grocery
chain, or grocery store, in Manchester, and he came to a few meetings
and then he left. I think he moved to School Street or somewhere
in Boston, and he may have opened another store down here. That is
all I know about him.
Elton Gustafson, he also was a friend of the Beebes. They often
mentioned him to me. He lived in Manchester and belonged to the
Manchester Communist Party group. He wasn't a very good Com-
munist, though, because many times he was asked to do a job and ap-
parently he fell down on the job and lie was scolded and ridiculed at
the meetings for that. In fact he was considered for expulsion, but
we tabled it and did not, as far as I know, put him out. That is all.
Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess for five minutes.
(A brief recess was taken.)
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order.
Let the record show that after a brief recess the committee recon-
venes with Congressman Kearney of New York and Doyle of Cali-
fornia, a quorum of the subcommittee is present.
Ready, Mr. Arens ?
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, would you kindly continue? Up to the
recess you were discussing names of persons who were known by you
to be members of the Communist Party in the Manchester area of New
Hampshire.
Mrs. Foster. Wliich one did I name last, please ?
Mr. Arens. The last person concerning whom you gave testimony
was Elton Gustafson.
Mrs. Foster. The next one is Alex Karnikas. He lived in Goffs-
town, just outside of Manchester with his parents, and, I believe, his
sister, Ann Karnikas. I can't tell you anything more about them,
other than they appeared at meetings in the Manchester area.
The next one is Abraham Welanko, who was treasurer of the Com--
munist Party and treasurer of the Progressive Party also. I don't
know when he came here, but he was a lawyer who lived in South
Weir with his wife and daughter and small son. He veiy seldom
ever missed a meeting. He was on the executive- board in the state
and as far as I know he didn't work very much, if any, but he did
help out when a lawyer was needed. He helped Louise Dobrowolski
get her divorce from her first husband, for instance.
Mr. Doyle. Did he charge fees ?
Mrs. Foster. He charged a fee. 1 tliink it was somewhere in the
vicinity of $100.
2300 OOJVIMTJlSriST activities in the new ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Doyle. Did lie charge fees when he cooperated with you Com-
munist leaders in matters that were referred to him for legal advice,
for instance, as far as you know ?
Mrs. Foster. I believe he charged them the same as he would any-
one else unless it was just verbal advice, and I imagine he just put
that out free.
He left his wife and his family and took his little boy, without any
warning, and went to California, leaving his car in Boston and let-
ting her laiow it was there. He usually sat very quietly at meetings
and listened to other people, and then after they had talked a bit he
would sort of put the cap on the bottle with a remark. In other
words, he more or less overrode anyone at any meeting I always
thought. I always had a feeling that he Avas just not an ordinary
Commmiist member.
Marian Welanko was his wife, and meetings were held probably
50 percent of the time at their home in South Weir.
John Zabrowski, I know as a Communist only. I do not know very
much about him except that he did come to a closed meeting at least
once.
Mr. Arens. Now would you kindly identify for this record the
name of each person who to your certain knowledge was a member of
the Communist Party in the Keene area or the southwest part of the
state ?
Mrs. Foster. I was told by Elba Chase Nelson on one of our trips
that Julie and Dave Taylor v\^ere Communists and that they lived in
Keene, also that Hulda, and I think the last name is either Hill or
Hills, but I am not certain, was a comrade over there. We many times
started to go to the Keene vicinity here, but never got there because
we had too much else to do.
Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to the Berlin area of New
Hampshire and ask you to give us a word about each person who to
your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist Party in
that area ?
Mrs. Foster. Harold Home was a national committeeman of the
Progressive Party, and he also came to state committee meetings. He
went into the Army somewhere in 1949 or 1950 and at that time he
had to resign as a national committeeman, but I have no recollection
of his resigning from the Communist Part3^ I believe he went to
Fort Dix for his tour of duty, and I tliink he was a lieutenant, and I
don't know what branch. When this state investigation started,
either just before it started, when they announced it, he and his fam-
ily left for Florida, and he was not able to appear before our state
investigative committee on Communist activities.
Another one is Sidney Goldenberg and his wife, Dorothy Golden-
berg, in the Berlin area. I think they were leaders of that area, and
there were other people who were in their group and 1 do not know
if they are Communists or not. I think they are.
Mr. Arens. Did you also become acquainted with members of the
Communist Party within the Boston area ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, I did. I do not know many of them as well as
New Hampshire people, but I did meet them and they were intro-
duced to me as Communists at the time.
Mr. Arens. Would you give us their names and as much infor-
mation as you can about each of them, please ?
COMMUNTST ACTIVmES m THE NEW EOSTGLAIvrD AREA 2301
Mrs. Foster. The first one is Manny Blum. I know he is called
Emanuel Blum, but we knew him as Manny Blum. I think he
Avas on the statT of the Storrow School here in Boston at that time.
He was, I believe, a labor organizer. I am not very good at the titles.
I just knew people and reported what I found out. Manny came to
Nashua and to our part of the state many, many times during my
stay in tjie party. I got to know him fairly well.
He brought us literature and directives whenever anything came up
that was .supposed to be started or done, and several times he con-
tacted me especially to do some work for the party which I did when-
i'ver I could.
Mr. Arens. Did you know his wife, Vera Blum ?
Mrs. Foster. I met her.
Mr. Arejts. Did you know her as a comrade ?
Mrs. Foster. I was introduced to her as a comrade.
Mr. Arens. Was she introduced to you by a comrade as a comrade ?
Mrs. Foster. As one.
Joy Clark introduced the majority of these people to me that I'm
going to give you because it was right after I joined in June 1947 that
we took a trip to Boston and we visited several of these people in their
homes. We went to their homes, and I believe that is where I met
Vera. And we also went to a meeting in Boston. This was held in
the Parker House, I believe, and I think she told me it was called the
Progressive Book Shelf Meeting, although I can't imagine why. I
remember Otis Hood was there, and he talked to us.
Other people I met with Joy were her sister Margot Clark, another
couple were Flo and Marty Williams.
Mr. Arens. And his wife was Flo ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes.
Mr. Arens. I guess this is Florence.
Mrs. Foster. I don't
Mr. Arens. All right.
Mrs. Foster. Frances and Otis Hood, Daniel Boone Schirmer,
Geoffrey White, Anne and Art Timpson, and Louis Hicks.
Ml'. Arens. May I make this suggestion? Those persons who are,
generally speaking, well-known comrades on whom there has been
made a public record or who have been publicly identified in this series
by Mr. Penha, I do not think it would be desirable for you to take
more tlian a moment's time on each of them.
JNIrs. Foster. I will go back to Daniel Boone Schirmer. Pie came
to some of our meetings in New Hampshii-e.
Mr. Arens. Yes. He has been identified and has appeared as a
witness, Mrs. Foster.
IMrs. Foster. He made a remark at a meeting that I wanted to bring
out, if I could.
Mr. x\rens. All right.
Mrs. Foster. We had a couple by the name of — well, the man's
name was Moe Cerasoli, and Virginia Cerasoli from Vermont, and I
believe that he was chaii-man of the Vermont Communist Party be-
cause the}' came down here to at least tAvo of our meetings. And
Moe asked Daniel Boone Schirmer whether or not the Communist
Party should run on the Progressive Party, and his answer Avas ab-
solutely. I can remember that very well because I memorized the
name.
2302 COMMUNIST ACTIVITTES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. IvEAKNEY. I imagine the real Daniel Boone is spinning in liis
grave at this particular time.
Mrs. FosniR. Louie Hicks, I met at a party with Joy Clark. He
told me liimself that he was a (^ommimist and that he was a graduate
of MIT. He was a Negro boy.
Fanny Hartman is another one. She was Joy Clark's adviser at
the time I knew Joy. And we called on her at her home. And she
even bought some of Joy's clothes occasionally.
Joseph Figueiredo, this isn't in the Boston area.
Mr. Arens. That is all riglit.
Mrs. Foster. He was the first Commuiiist, of course, that I ever
knew, and I visited him many times. I had lunclieon with him in
Boston one day. He came to Nashua one day along witli Manny
Blum to get information and have me take pictures of the Nashua
mills so he could write a pamphlet on them. Eulalia Figueiredo was
his wife.
Mr. Arexs. She is the one who was deported ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes. I met her several times.
I don't have Mary Figueirido down here, but she was mentioned to
me as a Communist by Joseph Figueiredo at the time. But I never
met her.
Morris Danzig, I know nothing about him except he was at a meet-
ing, a Communist meeting, tlie one that was held at the Parlver Plouse
I mentioiied before.
Edward and Ann Garfield, as I knew her she was usually in the
Boston office, and I knew them then as Communists through Jov
Clark.
Dave Rosenberg, I am sorry I don't know wdiat his position was,
when I first met him, but I always thouglit of him as being pretty
high up in tlie Boston circle, and he came to New Hampshire on sev-
eral occasions to our meetings.
Frank Collier was either in charge of, or an employee at, the
Progressive Book Shop in Boston, and he gave me a package one day
to mail to tlie Cerasolis in Vermont. That is to identify him.
Jim Marino came to a secret meeting, and there is probably more
information on him, but it would be probably in the FBI files be-
cause I sent it in in a report, and I don't remember what it is.
Fred Bradley is a man who called on me at my home, and I can't
recall what our conversation was except that I know it had to do
with the party, and on tw^o or three different occasions. That is all
1 can tell you about him.
Phil Bineau, he off'ert'd to teach us. He was staying for a little
while with the Dobrowolskis, and in the conversation with Louise and
myself he offered to teach us Marxism classes in Nashua, and that was
the time we went to Boston and got the information down there, and
they sent Hugo up instead. That is all I can tell you about him.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Foster, this committee is interested in developing
as much infovnnition as possible on the sources of Communist Party
finances. Can you give us any information that will shed light on
this subject?
Mrs. Foster. Money was collected in many ways. It was collected
through dues. It was collected through selling party literature. It
was collected at picnics with a raffle, people bringing things. It was
CO'MMTJlSrilST ACTIVITTES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2303
collected by taking a round of collections at a meeting-. In taking-
one collection, the chairman would say, "Well, now let's have all
paper money yon have in your pocket." So then a hat would be
passed around, and all the money would go in, and then it could come
back again for all the change that was left in the pocket.
Mr. Akens. How did he expect them to get home ?
Mrs. Foster. I don't know.
T know that at a Progressive Tjirty meeting that we lind, I think
for Wallace, the money was raised by asking evei-ybody in the au-
dience to wave a dollar bill or better in his hand. The man stood
up there to do that and waited until everybody got something up,
and I wanted to take a picture and got up there to take the picture
and the bulb didn't go oil.
Mr. Kearney. They still took capitalist money ?
]\Irs. Foster. There were also special drives and assessments. Every
time somebody got sick or every time somebody was arrested or s<^me-
body was in jail or all sorts of things money had to be raised for it
to help them out for the civil liberties and the foreign born
drives and, of course, for the famous 12. There were many of them.
So we held parties and so forth.
Mr. Akens. Over the course of years we have the evidence justly
established as to the control by the Communist Party in hundreds of
organizations across this Nation, Mrs. Foster, Communist fronts, and
now what we call Communist fronts-in-front of the fronts. To what
extent does the Coiinnunist conspiracy utilize these fronts and fronts-
in-front of the fronts for the purpose of si])honing money from the
American people ?
Mrs. Foster. I think you will have to split up that for me.
ISIr. Arens. Was money raised, iiot in the name of the Communist
l^arty, but in the name of various causes through front groups?
Mrs. Foster. It vras in some instances.
Mr. Arens. Could you tell us about the instances of which you have
knowledge?
Mrs. Foster. The Minute Womeii for Peace, for instance, would
be one. The Progressive Party, of course, in New Hampshiie was
Communist dominated and that money used by the Progressive Party,
actually was being used by Communists also. We didn't have very
many organizations in New Hampshire which were used as fronts
in the way that you mean.
Mr. Arens. You mentioned Communist Party dues, can you give
us any information as to the amount of the dues and tJie distribution
of the dues ?
Mrs. Foster. They ranged from 10^ up to almost any amount. If
somebody had a lot of money and wanted to pledg? a certain an.iount
for dues they didn't have to, but I Imow they did. 10(i dues would
be for somebody that was unemployed, 35^ would be for a woman
who was probably a housewife, 500 possibly for the husband who
Avas working in that family. And it would go on up. I think I paid
$1.25 myself, and I think the D'Orlandos' pnid $1.25, if I am not
mistaken. I know that Kate Dobrowolski ])aid .$1.25 foi- her diu^s,
and she was at times, I believe, employed.
The dues were sort of arranged according to the jobs or the wealth
perhaps that these people had. I am unable to remember all of
them.
2304 ooMMiiNrsT activtties est the n'ew exgland area
Mr. Arens. You mentioned earlier that Joy Clark was a colonizer.
Do you have any other information concerning efforts of the Commu-
nist Party to colonize within an industry in this area ?
Mrs. Foster. The only other mention of that was a luncheon that
I had with Joe Figueiredo in Boston at Jacob Wirth's one day, and
he explained it to me. I don't remember whether I asked him or
what, but he explained it. He told me that an ideal colonization
unit would be approximately 10 people to be placed, to go into an
area and work that area, and, of course, that number of people would
be able to build up the numbers and also to work better in union
organizations and meetings that they might go to and carry on the
work more efficiently.
Mr. Arens. During the time you were active in the Communist
Party what security measures were exercised by the party ?
Mrs. Foster. There were a lot of security measures. At meetings,
for instance, the cards that I sent out had nothing on them except
just the date and maybe my initials, and the people would know
where they were supposed to go. Sometimes the address was given,
but no information on those cards to start with.
Mr. Arens. How about records? Do thej presently keep records
as the Rotary Club or Kiwanis Club would, or do they have a little
different system ?
Mrs. Foster. I was told that no records of members were kept
when I first joined. Joy Clark told me that the information that I
had given her that she wrote down on a card was to be transferred
on onionskin paper — I suppose just copy paper — and placed in
comrades' homes. And I know that later on those were also sup-
posed to have been burned and destroyed, and the people in their
own areas were supposed to have memorized the names of all mem-
bers, sympathizers, and fellow travelers. I had to do it for the south-
ern part of New Hampshire and Muriel Gravelle did it for the
northern part.
Mr. Arens. How about the telephone? Was tliat an instrument
that was utilized by the party ?
Mrs. Foster. We were not supposed to use the telephone for party
business or to talk about it over the phone because we didn't have
many dial systems up there. Also Abe Welanko warned us not to
put return addresses on envelopes.
Mr. Arens. In the event of an arrest of a comrade or the event
a comrade was subpcnaed before an investigative committee what
techniques were to be followed ?
Mrs. Foster. They were to give out no information whatsoever, but
to contact one of several people that were designated in the state.
Through them tliey would receive instructions and help from an out-
side lawyer.
Mr. Arens. To what extent did they undertake to utilize sympa-
thizers and dupes?
Mrs. Foster. The only instance that I can th'mk of is that when
our records were moved from the liome of Elba Chase Nelson to
Muriel Gravelle's home, shortly after that it was decided for security
I'easons that they would be placed in the home of s^'mpatliizers un-
known to anyone in the party. That is all I know.
COMMUNIST ACTIVmES' IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2305
Mr. Arens. Can you give us the names now of people who were
known to you to be Communist Party members who were also leaders
in the Progressive Party ?
Mrs. Foster. Muriel Gravelle, Abraham Welanko.
Mr. Arens. Roland Gray ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes.
Mr. Arens. How about Charles Beebe ?
Mrs. Foster. He was a committee delegate for the Progressive
Party. He was chosen as a delegate.
Mr. Arens. Harold Home, does that name register with you?
Mrs. Foster. He was once the chairman of the Progressive Party.
Mr. Arens. "Was he likev.dse a Communist ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, he was.
Mr. Arens. These people that you have just talked about were all
known by you as a certainty to be members of tlie Communist Party,
is that correct ?
j\Irs. Foster. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party select as the head of the Pro-
gressive Party a Communist Party member ?
Mrs. Foster. No, they did not. Not after the commencing of it.
Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party undertake to utilize the
churches and similar good organizations in the furtherance of its
campaign and program?
Mrs. Foster. I was called by the Dobrowolski family one day and
told somebody wanted to see me, and I went down and met Manny
Blum out in the street. He told me that he had orders to give me
and asked me to arrange a forum in my church, through my minister,
and that would include a high-ranking member of the Progressive
Party and then other lay members on that same forum. I sort of
balked because I wasn't looking forward to asking my minister that.
He said it was an order and that he wanted the answer within so many
days. So I did go and ask him. The answer was No.
Mr. Arens. This committee is vitally interested in Communist
propaganda, Mrs. Foster, particularly in the form of booklets, leaflets,
and the like. Can you give us any information as to how Communist
propaganda is distributed in the New Hampshire area?
Mrs. Foster. Most of our meetings were attended by someone from
the Boston office. It would either be Anne Burlak Timpson or Manny
Blum or Daniel Boone Schirmer or many of the others, and they
would come armed with all the latest in pamphlets and information
and usually a short talk on what the issues were of the day and what
we could do about it. And if some money was to be raised we would
get the information at that time. Then that information written in
stuff that they brought along was to be sold or distributed, and we
very often bought them at that time.
Mr. Arens. I don't believe we pursued completely the query with
respect to Communist Party attempts to infiltrate non-Communist or
legitimate organizations. Do you have information concerning such
activities as the attempts to infiltrate non-Communist legitimate or-
ganizations as the PTA and other civic organizations in New
Hampshire ?
Mrs. Foster. The only time that I was asked to do anything like
that was at the home of Fanny Hartman in 1947. She asked me,
2306 CX)MMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
told me I was in a very good position to form a PTA in my area be-
cause there wasn't one, and it would be a very good place to exercise
some of the party things that we could do. I don't Imow what they
would have been because I was a neAV member at that time.
Mr. Arens. As far as the committee, Ave have been pursuing the
problems of the United States passports by niembers of the Com-
inunist conspiracy, joeople under Communist discipline. Do you have
any information respecting this type of activity by the Communists
in New Hampshire?
Mrs. FosTKi;. There was a peace conference held in Warsaw, and
passports had to be gotten to send delegates over there. Money was
raised for that purpose. And we had somebody in the State of New
Hampshire whom we helped to go, it was a woman, and she was
in the Progressive Party. I know for a fact that Joy Clark owed
$30 to Elba Chase Nelson at this particular time, and I know Mrs,
Nelson turned the entire $30 over to this woman for her part of the
passage.
Mr. Arens. The woman herself was not a party member, was she?
Mrs. Foster. No, she was not.
Mr. Arens. Did you in the course of your activity in the Commu-
nist Party liave occasion to go over to Cape Cod for any purposes?
Mrs. Foster. Yes. I was asked on at least three occasions to make
a special trip to Cape Cod and spend four, five, or six days there.
Mr. Arens. Where did you go and for what purpose, please?
Mrs. Foster. I went to Woods Hole and stayed for a week for the
purpose of- Do you want me to mention the names ?
Mr. Arens. I do not think you should at this time, Mrs. Foster,
mention the name of any person not known by you to be a Com-
munist. We have this subject matter that you are about to mention
under intensive investigation.
Mrs. Foster. It was for the purpose of learning what Communist
might be entertaining other ones or lecturing there at Woods Hole.
Also I was sent to Martha's Vineyard in the IMenemsha area to do
the same thing.
Mr. AnENs, Were the couirades, higli eclieloii of the party, being-
entertained and received in homes of certain people of great affluence
in Cape Cod ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, they would be.
Mr. Arens. I prefer you would not name them at this time.
Mrs. Foster. No.
]Mr. Arens. You have, of course, consulted with us at length on
many occasions, and we have elicited from you considerable infor-
mation which we do not want to go into now at this public session.
]Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that unless Mrs. Foster luis
something she should like to volunteer that we have not interrogated
her about, that would conclude the staff interrogation of her now
with our thanks.
Mrs. Foster. I would just like to say that I think the country is
very, very fortunate to have committees such as yours, using your
eyes and ears and this method of bringing this very serious question
before the American people. And as a mother my purpose for doing
this in the beginning was for the benefit of my own children, of course,
primarily, but also of all the mothers and fathers and their children
in the country.
COMMUlSrilST ACTIVIT'IES IN THE NEW EiNGLAND AREA 2307
Mr. Arens. Just one personal question that occurred to me. Do
you feel good now you have it all behind you — that you can get back
to normal living with your husband and children ?
Mrs. Foster. I am not very happy about giving out personal in-
formation on people. But this was something that was bigger than
me. And I ask God to forgive me, but I had to do it. So I did it.
Mr. Doyle. General Kearney, any questions ?
Mr. Kearney. Mrs. Foster, I don't have any questions. I want to
make a few observations and the first is this: That I think and be-
lieve, that you are a very, ver}^ courageous woman, and it is not
only the thanks of the committee, but the thanks of all Americans
Avho believe in their country that should go to you for your work on
belialf of our way of life. It is dangerous work. These people will
stop at nothing as we have found out in our years of service on this
committee. As a matter of fact, even the members of the committee
are not immune from attacks.
It is being constantly brought to the attention of the public when
we hold these meetings by the various w^itnesses that the Communist
Parly is a political party. Do you believe that it is a political party?
Mrs. Foster. I do not. How could it be a political party when at
Ihei]' meetings they have to pull down all the curtains in order to
discuss business?
Mr. Kearney. It was just going through my mind that I know that
as far as the two political ])arties of our country are concerned, I
never knew either one of tliem to say to the members of the respective
party in the City of Boston that they could not and would not know
who the members were, we will say, in New Bedford. And that is
typical of the Communist Party.
You spoke about dues. Were tliere any other assessments to the
members of the party beside dues ?
Mrs. Foster. Yes, there were, special assessments.
Mr. Kearney. What were those special assessments?
Mrs. Foster. It has been such a long time I probably can't put my
finger right on the s])ecific one exce])t that I do remember being asked
by IMrs. Timpson, I believe, to collect $50 for either probably for
the 12, the defense of the 12, but I can't remember just what it was
for. Within a very short length of time, I did that. I didn't have
very much trouble collecting the $50, and that was one of them.
Mr. Kearney. "^A'as there assessment laid against the members of
the Communist P;irty in the various cells in addition to their dues,
or ail as'^essnieut, we Avill say, on tlie amount of money tliat they
earned weekly from their particular jobs?
Mrs. Foster. Occasionally. T don't Icnow how often. I remonibei'
members being asked to conlribute a week's pay.
M 1". Kearney. You know \'ou mentioned, I believe, that no informa-
tion was to be given out by members of the party if they were
arrested.
Mrs. Foster. That is right.
Mr. Kearney. That also applies, too, if they were called before
this committee, is that not a fact ?
Mrs. Foster. That is right, 3^es.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, no information whatsoever, but
plead the amendments to the Constitution that they are trying to
overthrow ?
2308 COMMUNIST ACTIVrriES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA.
Mrs. Foster. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. I want to call your attention to what to me is a
very, very peculiar situation. We have had testimony 1 do not
know whether you have been in the hearing room all the time since
the sessions commenced or not.
jSIrs. Foster. No.
Mr. Kearney. But we have had testimony from various individuals,
some of whom we will say Professor David Fein, mitil he was
suspended, was one who was teaching the youth of our country ; Anne
Burlak Timpson, the Red Flame, Red, yes, flame, no. We also had
an individual by the name of Otis Hood, who stood for Governor of
this great commonwealth, but without avail. We also had Daniel
Schirmer or Daniel Boone Schirmer, a Harvard graduate, who j^es-
terday took the lifth amendment as I recollect 40 times, who refused
to account for his employment for 17 years after graduation from
Harvard University.
Mr. Doyle. 17 out of 24 years after graduation.
Mr. Kearney. 17 out of 24 j^ears after graduation.
Mr. Doyle. Maybe he was not working.
Mrs. Foster. May I say something ? It seems to me a good honest
xVmerican wouldn't be afraid to say anything.
Mr. Doyle. That is right.
^Ir. Kearney. Let me tell you something, if I may. You are going
to be called names by these people, but pay no attention to these fifth
amendment Americans. They are no good. They will call you an
informer, they will call you a two-timer, they will call you every
]iame in the book, and we know all those names. But let me tell you
now that you can walk out of this hearing room with your head held
very high. You are a credit and thank you.
Mrs. Foster. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, General Kearney.
For the purpose of brevity and on account of the lateness of the
hour, I will just concur in the very fine words by this distinguished
American veteran to my right, whom we affectionately call General
Kearney because he was a distinguished general in his own right in
the service of our country, and is now a distinguished Congressman
from the State of New York.
I wish to take this one minute just to read something that I made a
copy of this morning on the way here. It appears on the walls of the
Old South Church within 500 yeards of here :
This land was part of the land granted by the colony to Governor John Win-
throp. It was his garden. Benjamin Franklin was baptized in this meeting
house which was built in 1670. Here were held the town meetings that ushered
in the Revolution. Here Samuel Adams exhorted. Here the men of Boston
proved themselves independent, courageous, free men worthy to raise issues
which were to concern the liberty and the happiness of millions of people yet
unborn.
Coming from California as I do, I just wish to emphasize that you
people who live in Boston and in the Boston area, live in what is a great
inspiration to us men out West who seldom, if ever, get a chance to come
to this area, which is the very threshold of our American freedoms
and American liberties. It seems quite inconsistent to me that so many
hundreds of Communist conspirators should thrive in this area.
COMMUNIST AcnvrriES m the new England akea 2309
I wish to thank you on behalf of the committee, Mrs. Foster, for
your very great helpf uhiess.
Mrs. Foster. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. The committee meeting will stand adjourned until
1 : 80 today.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 59 a. m., Thursday, March 20, 1958, a recess
was taken until 1 : 30 p. m. of the same day.)
(Afternoon session, Thursday, March 20, 1958 : see p. 2321.)
24777— 58— pt. 3-
INVESTIGATION OF POSSIBLE COMMUNIST PARTY
AFFILIATION OF ALBERT D'ORLANDO
FRIDAY, MARCH 14, 1958
United States House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. C.
executive session ^
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 15 a. m., in Room 226,
Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. Francis E. Walter
(chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter, of
Pennsylvania (chairman), Morgan M. Moulder, of Missouri, Clyde
Doyle, of California, and Robert J. Mcintosh, of Michigan.
Stall" members present: Richard Arens, staff director; and George
C. Williams, investigator.
Mr, Arens. On the record.
The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give
will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help
you God.
Reverend D'Orlando, I do.
TESTIMONY OF EEV. ALBERT D'ORLANDO, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, HARRY I. RAND AND SIMMIE R. MONROE
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and occu-
pation.
Reverend D'Orlando. Reverend Albert D'Orlando, 7700 Nelson
Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. I am the minister of the First Uni-
tarian Church in New Orleans.
Mr. Rand. May I just interrupt for a moment and identify myself
for the record ?
Mr. Arens. We expect that to be done in just a minute, if you
please, sir.
Mr. Rand. Mr. Chairman, I tell you why I want to interrupt, be-
cause I liave not been able to advise my client due to the fact that we
do not know what the subject matter of the investigation is. If we
are going to reach that at some early point in the meeting I would
appreciate it.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to subpena which
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties?
Reverend D'Orlando. That is right.
^ Released by the committee and ordered to be printed.
2311
2312 CJOMMUNiST AcnvrriES m the is^ew England area
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Reverend D'Orlando. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you identify yourselves ?
Mr. Rand. I am Harry Rand ; my office is in the Wyatt Building,
Washington, D. C.
Mr. Monroe. Sinmiie R. Monroe, and my office is at 7161^ Berwyn
Street, New Orleans.
Mr. Arens. Reverend D'Orlando, how long have you been located
in the New Orleans area ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I have been in the New Orleans area since
September 1950.
Mr. Arens. Have you been associated with your present church dur-
ing all of that period ?
Reverend D'Orlando. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Where were you located immediately prior to the time
that you came to the New Orleans area ?
Mr. Rand. Mr. Chairman, again I do not wish to interrupt, but I
must say I think we are entitled to a definition of the question under
inquiry before interrogation proceeds so that I may be in a position,
should this witness turn to me, to know how to advise the witness as to
his rights. May we have such a definition at this time ?
The Chairman. I think as we progress you will see the relevancy of
this.
Mr. Arens. Sir, kindly answer the question as to where you were lo-
cated prior to the time you went to New Orleans.
Reverend D'Orlando. May I say that I have come a great distance
at a great inconvenience to myself and to my congregation. There are
duties in New Orleans which I have left behind in order to come here,
and I would like to know the nature of the inquiry to take place.
Mr. Arens. I should be glad, Mr. Chairman, if you would like, to
give an explanation at this time.
The Chairman. Go ahead.
Mr. Arens. Through the Committee on Un-American Activities, a
subcommittee is conducting a series of investigations and hearings for
the purpose of developing information which will be useful to this
committee in appraising a number of provisions of the legislation pres-
ently pending before the committee including legislation which under-
takes to cope with problems in regard to Communist propaganda, Com-
munist Party underground activities, whether or not the Communist
Party in itself as an entity ought to be outlawed and the like.
In the course of preliminary inquiries made by the staff, reported to
the chairman of this committee, information has been developed to the
effect that you, Albert D'Orlando, have information respecting the
functioning and operation of the Communist Party.
Therefore your presence has been required here for the purpose of
this interrogation.
Now would you kindly tell us where you lived, where you were lo-
cated prior to the time you went to the New Orleans area ?
Reverend D'Orlando. Prior to the time I went to New Orleans I
was in New Hampshire.
Mr. Arens. Where in New Hampshire ?
Reverend D'Orlando. Wilton, New Hampshire.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity were you there ?
COMIMUNIST ACTIVmES EST THE NEW EaSTGLAND AREA 2313
Reverend D'Orlando. I was minister of two small Unitarian
cliurches, one in Wilton Center and another in Milford, N. H.
Mr. Aeens. During what period of time were you located in each of
these two small areas ?
Reverend D'Orlando. This was in November of 1945 until I went
to New Orleans. I was minister of the two churches at the same time.
Mr. Arens. That would be, say from November 1945 until about
1950?
Reverend D'Orlando. Till September 1950, that is right.
Mr. Arens. May we proceed in a reverse chronological order;
kindly tell us where you were located and what were your charges
prior to the time you were located in 1945 in these two small areas in
New Hampshire.
Reverend D'Orlando. I went to New Plampshire very shortly after
my ordination, which took place on August 1st, 1945, in the Unitarian
Church at East Boston, Mass.
I had served this church for two years in the capacity of student
minister; that is, it was during the time I was studying at Tufts
School of Religion. I enrolled in Tufts School of Religion in
September of 1940.
Mr. Arens. Could you give us a word on your formal education,
since we are going in reverse fashion ?
Reverend D'Orlando. All my formal education took place at Tufts
University in Medford, Mass., from the period September 1940 to
June 1945.
Mr. Arens. Are you a native of Massachusetts ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I am.
Mr. Arens. Rev. D'Orlando, are you now or have you ever been a
member of the Communist Party ?
Reverend D'Orlando. May I discuss this with my counsel ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I wish to say that I am not now a member
of the Communist Party ; that I have not been a member of the Com-
munist Party since my ordination into the ministry in 1945 ; and that
for any period prior to that I would stand on my constitutional rights
and not answer the question further.
The Chairman. I think it is my duty to direct you to answer the
question. In view of the fact that you have answered fully as to your
membership since 1945 I see no reason why you should not answer
the question as to whether or not you were a member before that time.
Reverend D'Orlando. I wish to stand on my constitutional rights
not to answer prior to 1945.
Mr. Arens. Have you since 1945 paid dues to the Communist Party ?
Reverend D'Orlando. Not to my knowledge I have not paid dues
since 1945.
Mr. Arens. Have you since 1945 made any contributions of money
to the Communist Party ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I believe I have made some contributions
in the form of money to the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Please tell us under what circumstances and to whom
you made these contributions.
Reverend D'Orlando. May I discuss tliis with my counsel ?
2314 ooMMXHsnsT activities m thje new England area
Mr. Aeens. Yes, sir.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. May I say that money which I may have
given during this period was not monej' which I knowingly gave
directly to the Communist Party; it was money which I gave as-
suming I was supporting worthy causes or causes of one sort or
another which I deemed worthy of my support during this period?
Mr. Arens. Did you pay tliis to a person who was known by you
to be a Communist ?
Reverend D'Orlando. May I direct this to my counsel, please ?
Mr. Arens. Surely.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I only knew of this person's alleged mem-
bership in the party through public knowledge.
Mr. Arens. To whom did you pay the money ?
Reverend D'Orlando. To the chairman of the Communist Party
in New Hampshire, Mrs. Nelson.
Mr. Arens. "V\niat was her first name ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I believe her first name was Elba.
Mr. Arens. Was her middle name Chase ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I believe it was.
Mr. Arens. Did you know her to be a Communist ?
Reverend D'Orlando. May I discuss this with my counsel ?
The Chairman. He has already testified to tliat.
Mr. Rand. He testified he knew; it was public knowledge that she
was chairman of the party.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever attended any closed party meeting with
Elba Chase Nelson? " ' ^ '
Reverend D'Orlando. No.
Mr. Arens. How much money did you give Elba Chase Nelson
and over what period of time ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. It was over a very short period of time dur-
ing the time I was in New Hampshire. I do not recall the amount of
money, but it could not liave been much more than a pittance since
I did not have more than that.
Mr. Arens. On how many occasions did you pay money to Elba
Chase Nelson ?
Reverend D'Orlando. On very fcAv occasions. I do not know
the number.
Mr. Arens. Would it be as many as a dozen ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not believe so.
Mr. Arens. As many as a half-dozen ?
Reverend D'Orlando. It may have been witliin a half-dozen range.
I doubt it was more than that.
Mr. Arens. Wliere did you actually transmit the money to Elba
Chase Nelson?
Reverend D'Orlando. At my home.
Mr. Arens. Did she give you a receipt for the money ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. T do not recall that I oxer received a receipt
for the money.
Mr. Arens. Did yoii ever give any money to any other person who
was known by you to be a Communist or for Communist Party pur-
poses ?
COMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW EOSPGLAND AREA 2315
Eeverend D'Orlando. I do not recall that I did.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever give any money to a woman by the name
of Carol Foster?
(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I recall having given her some money for
literature at one time.
Mr, Arens. Wliat literature was it for which you gave her the
money ?
Reverend D'Orlando. As I recall it she had some pamphlets dealing
with the various affairs of the Communist Party at that time. I read
quite extensively and when she had come to my house with some of
this I pui'chased a few pamphlets. I do not recall now what they
were.
Mr. Arens. Did you purchase more than one copy of any pamphlet ?
Reverend D'Orlando. 1 do not recall that I did.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you purchase these pam-
phlets from Mrs. Foster?
Reverend D'Orlando. It was again during this period but I do not
recall the period of time.
Mr. Arens. About how many purchases would you judge that you
made?
Reverend D'Orlando. I would judge that I made very few. I do
not remember.
Mr. Arens. Would you judge there were as many as half a dozen
in the course of your period of service in New Hampshire ?
Reverend D'Orlando. This Carol Foster to whom you refer came
witli Mrs. Nelson when they came to visit with me. It was during this
period that I made these purchases.
The Chairman. Who was this woman? Was she also an official
in the Communist Party?
Reverend D'Orlando. I have no idea.
Mr. Arens. Do you recall joining with a number of peojDle in a
protest to Judge Medina urging the release from prison of a number
of Communist defendants back in June of 1949 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Rand. May we see that ?
Mr. Arens. Yes. It is a photostatic copy of the Communist Daily
Worker of June 7, 1949, and I ask you if that refreshes your recollec-
tion as to your participation in that particular protest to Judge
Medina ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Rand. The question was : Does he recall signing that ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Reverend D'Orlando. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Thank you. What position in the Communist Party
did you understand Elba Chase Nelson occupied ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I understood through public knowledge that
she was the chairman of the party of the State of New Plampshire.
JNIr. Arens. Do you know who the secretary of the party for the
State of New Hampshire was at the time you were in the New Hamp-
shire area?
Reverend D'Orlando. No, I do not.
Mr. Arens. Do you know who the chairman of the Communist
Party was at any time in Massachusetts ?
2316 CX)MMTJNrST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I would refuse to answer that inasmuch as
this goes back to before 1945 and I would stand on my privilege.
The Chairman. What constitutional amendment do you invoke?
Reverend D'Orlando. I invoke the first amendment and the fifth
amendment and all of the rights that are granted to me in the Con-
stitution. I understand there are others.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever resign from the Communist Party ?
( The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Reverend D'Orlando. I decline to answer for the same reasons.
Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you ever known a person by the
name of Hugo DeGregory ?
Reverend D'Orlaxdo. May I hear the question again, please?
Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you ever known a man named
Hugo DeGregory ?
(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. Let me say that this would depend very
much on what you mean by do I "know" or have I "known." I have
known of a JMr. DeGregory.
Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I have known of a Mr. DeGregory.
J^Ir. Arens. In what capacity have you known of him ?
Reverend D'Orlando. This man to whom you refer called on me
once at my home in New Hampshire when I was living there; but
I do not know him to be a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. What was the nature of his visit there ?
Reverend D'Orlando. This was some time ago. I do not recall.
Mr. Arens. Was it purely a social visit ?
_ Reverend D'Orlando. To the best of my knowledge it was a social
visit.
Mr. Arens. Was any activity involving the Communist Party the
subject of any part of your conversation with him ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not recall.
^ Mr. Arens. Have you, Reverend D'Orlando, since 1945 or at any
time in your life made available to any agency of the Government of
the United States any information of which you are possessed, respect-
ing activities of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Rand. You are assuming he is possessed of some information?
The Chairman. He has admitted he was a member,
Mr. Rand. No. He has not admitted that he was a member. He
said he was not a member after 1945.
The Chairman. Were you a member before 1945?
Reverend D'Orlando. I stand on my rights.
The Chairman. You invoke the Constitution; what amendment?
Reverend D'Orlando. I invoke all the amendments that protect
my rights.
The Chairman. You tell us you were not a Communist since 1945
but when asked about your membership before that you invoke the
Constitution ?
Reverend D'Orlando. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Have you revealed to any agencies of the Government
of the United States any information respecting the Communist Party
of which you may be possessed ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
CQMMUNUST ACTIVrTIEiS IN THE NEW EiNGLAXD AREA 2317
Keverend D'Oelando. I decline to ansAver the question.
Mr. Doyle. On Avhat grounds?
Keverend D'Orlando. Constitutional grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Which amendment?
Reverend D'Orlando. All amendments that pertain.
Mr. Arens. When you were in New Hampshire after you left the
seminary did you attend any Communist Party meetings?
Eeverend D'Orlando. In New Hampshire?
Mr. Arens. Any place.
Mr. Rand. That is after 1945 ?
Mr. Arens. Yes. I am using that date, the same date which you
are using.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. Not that I recall, sir.
Mr. Arens. Tell us now the names of all of the principal persons
known by you to be Communists in Massachusetts.
Reverend D'Orlando. I decline to answer for the same reasons.
Mr. Arens. In 1946, which I call to your attention is the first year
after the time when you say you were not a member of the Communist
Party, in 194G were you against the Communist Party?
Reverend D'Orlando. May I discuss this with my counsel ?
Mr. Arens. Certainly.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I would refuse to answer this question as it
involves an inquiry into my beliefs and I avail myself of my con-
stitutional rights.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Po-
litical Association as distinct, at least technically, from the Com-
munist Party ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I decline to answer this on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Political
Association at any time since 1945 ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Political
Association at any time since 1946 ?
Reverend D'Orlando. No. I have not been.
Mr. Arens. Have you been under Communist Party discipline at
any time since 1945 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not know what this means, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you taken orders, directives, instructions of any
kind from the Communist Party since 1945 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. The answer is No.
Mr. Arens. Were these money payments which you made to the
Communist Party, concerning which you have told us, periodic and
regular, or were they occasional ?
Mr. Rand. These are the ones in New Hampshire ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Reverend D'Orlando. To the best of my knowledge they were
occasional.
Mv. McIntosh. If I may ask a question, Mr. Arens; as I under-
stand, your testimony initially was that you made certain payments
2318 OOMMUNI'ST ACTIVniES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
to the Communist Party which you later explained were contributions
to causes or objectives.
What to your recollection are some of the causes or objectives or
purposes of these contributions to the Communist Party after 1945?
Mr. IvAND. I think, Congressman, the witness was referring to the
contributions to the chairman of the party in Xew Hampshire. That
is Avhat he meant.
Mr. McIntosii. Yes, and he said they were for projects. I am
asking if you can elaborate on some of them.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlaxdo. This was primarily for the purchase of
literature.
Mr. McIntosh. As I recall your testimony you distinguished be-
tween payments to one person for literature and payments to another
person for what you called worthy objectives or purposes or projects
of some sort.
What I meant was not the purchase of literature as such, but the
contributions to the person you mentioned as knowing to be a Com-
munist Party chairman.
Reverend D'Orlando. It was not my intention to distinguish be-
tween these two people.
Mr. McIntosh. I believe you quite clearly distinguished between
them.
Reverend D'Orlando. It was not my intention to do so.
Mr. McIntosh. When you testified earlier that you made contri-
butions, and that was your word, to the chairman of the Communist
Party known to you to be such, which you say were for contributions
to certain causes and projects, can you at this time tell us what any
of those causes or projects were which motivated you to make a finan-
cial contribution ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I would answer this question in this way :
that the money which I contributed at that time, it was my under-
standing was in the nature of a contribution to the candidacy of
Henry Wallace who was running for the presidency of the United
States.
Mr. McIntosh. Were you solicited by the chairman of the Com-
munist Party to contribute to Mr. Wallace's campaign?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. Yes. To the best of my knowledge it was
solicited and given voluntaril3^
Mr. McIntosii. Those gifts were of small amounts on several dif-
ferent occasions, it that right?
Re.verend D'Orlando. Very small amounts.
Mr. JNIcIntosh. I have no further questions.
Mr. Arens. Was there any other person to whom you made contri-
butions or payments who was to your understanding a member of the
Communist Party or represented the Communist Party?
R(werend D'Orlando. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arens. Have you since 1945 actively participated in any groups
<»)■ organizations wliirh are generally characterized as Communist
fronts?
Reverend D'Orlando. Not to m}'^ knowledge.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITEEiS EST THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2319
Mr. Arens. You know what "Communist front" is?
Reverend D'Orlando. I am not sure wliat you mean by this.
Mr. Arens. It is an organization which is not a Communist organ-
ization but is controlled by the Communist Party.
The Chairman. What about this article I AMiat is the date of that ?
Mr. Arens. June 7, 1949.
The Chairman. Was that an organized activity ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Eand. Mr. Chairman, I think that should be read into tlie
record. That was
The Chairman. I am speaking to Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Who solicited you to participate in this enterprise of
trying to get the Communists who were convicted in Judge Medina's
court released?
Mr. Rand. You mean the telegram that went out, not an ''enter-
prise."
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not remember.
Mr. Rand. May we have the telegram and names read into the
record ?
The Chairman. We will incorporate tlie wliole page in tlie records
of the committee.
Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you known a person by the name
of Charles C. Beebe ?
Reverend D'Orlando. No.
Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you known a person by tlie name
of Muriel Gravelle ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not recall the name,
Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you known a person by the name
of Homer Chase ?
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not know Homer Chase.
Mr. Arens. Abraham Welanko ?
Reverend O'Orlando. I do not recall the name.
Mr. Arens. Have you been contacted by any person known by you
to be a Communist since you have been in Xew Orleans'^
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. My only knowledge of anyone in New
Orleans who has in any way been in any associations is only through a
hearing which this committee conducted in New Orleans a year ago.
JNIr. Rand. Your own.
Reverend D'Ori^^ndo. Such a person would be Dr. William Sorum
who testified in the hearing that he had been a Communist.
Mr. Arens. What was the nature of your connection with him ?
Reverend D'Orlando. Dr. Sorum was a member of my churcli.
Mr. Arens. You have told us, Reverend D'Orlando, of your con-
tributions since 1945 for Communist Part}' purposes or for Communist
Party literature. Have you at any time since 1945 taken any overt
steps against the Communist Party ?
It is obvious that contributions would assist the party since 1945;
have you done anything against the party since 1945 ?
Reverend D'Orlando. What do you mean by this? Would you de-
fine tlie question ?
Mr. Arens. I can think of a numbei- of things. Have you given
information to the intelligence agencies of this Government against
the Communist Party since 1945 ?
2320 COMMUNIST ACTIVTTIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Reverend D'Orlando. This presumes that I would have knowledge
of the Communist Party, which I do not.
Mr. Arexs. Have you condemned the Communist Party since 1945 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Reverend D'Orlando. I do not recall, sir, of any occasion.
Mr. Arexs. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that would con-
clude tlie interrogation of this particular witness. I would suggest if
the chairman wishes that we might go into a closed session and that
the witness may be excused.
Mr. Rand. Before the committee does that may I ask two things,
Mr. Chairman?
The Chairman. All right.
]SIr. Rand. That this telegram together with all the signers of that
appear in the record ?
The Chairman. We will decide on that later.
(Off the record.)
Mr. Rand. May I also request in the event we do not come back
here, because I do not know whether we will or not, that Rev.
D'Orlando be allowed the privilege at his own expense if he so desires
to purchase a copy of this transcript ?
The Chairman. Oh, yes. We will see that he receives a copy.
You are excused.
(Whereupon, at 10:55 a. m., the witness and his two counsel left
the hearing room.)
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 05 a. m., Friday, March 14, 1958, the committee
recessed.)
INVESTIGATION OF C03IMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
NEW ENGLAND AREA— PART 3
THURSDAY, MARCH 20, 1958 (Continued)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(Committee members present: Representatives Doyle and
Kearney. )
Mr. DoYi.E. The committee will please come to order. And let the
record show that General Kearney of New York is present on my
right and I am Doyle of California, acting as subcommittee chair-
man.
May there be incorporated in the record the telegram from Francis
E. Walter, chairman, reconstituting the subcommittee of three, Mr.
JMoulder, Mr. Doyle and Mr. Kearney. Under our rules two out of
three is a quorum. Therefore a quorum is present and we will proceed.
(The telegram referred to follows :)
[Telegram]
Makch 20, 1958.
Mr. Richard Arens,
The Parker House, 60 School Street, Boston, Mass.:
I am today reconstituting subcommittee to be composed of Congressman Morgan
M. Moulder, as chairman, Congressmen Doyle and Kearney to continue the
hearings in Boston.
Francis E. Walter, Chairman.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Arnold Schwartz, kindly come forward and remain
standing while the chairman administers an oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. The pictures will be taken, please, before he takes the
oath.
Mr. Schwartz, would you please raise your right hand ?
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth so help you God ?
Mr. Schwartz. I do.
INIr. DoYi.E. Thank you. You will take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OF ARNOLD SCHWAKTZ, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
EDV7AED BAESHAK
Mr. Aeens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation.
Mr. Schwartz. Arnold Schwartz, New York City, and I am an
engineer.
Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, Mr. Schwartz ?
Mr. Schwartz. Sonotone Corporation. Sonotone Corporation,
New York State.
2321
2322 OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
whicli was served upon yon by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities ?
Mr. Schwartz. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Schwartz. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Mr. Barshak. Edv. ;ird J^>arsliak, 78 Ti'einont Street, Boston.
Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born, sir ?
Mr. Schwartz. New York City on July 16, 1926.
Mr. Arens. And give us if you please, a word about your education.
Mr. Schwartz. Well, I graduated City College in 1949. I attended
Harvard Law School for one year, 1950, and subsequently went back
to City College and finished an electrical engineering course at City
College.
Mr. Arens. When did you complete your formal education at City
College?
Mr. Schwartz. I am still attending at present.
Mr. Arens. Wliat degree did you receive in 1949, please sir?
Mr. Schwartz. A B.S.
Mr. Arens. Now, kindly tell us the principal employments which
you iiave had since you acquired your B. S. degree in 1949.
Mr. Schwartz. Well, I have been employed principally in the elec-
tronics industry.
Mr. Arens. Where was your first job ?
Mr. Schwartz, I worked for Philco Television in New York City.
Mr. Arens. Beginning when, please, sir ?
Mr. Schwartz. That was in 1949.
Mr. Arens. And for how long did this employment endure ?
Mr. Schwartz. That was about six months.
Mr. Arens. Then your next employment, please, sir ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
grounds of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Kearney. I did not get that answer.
Mr. Schwartz. Respectfully, I decline to answer the question on the
grounds of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Where was your next employment ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer the question on the ground
Mr. Arens. — — the geographical location of your next employment,
in wliat state or city ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
be ordei-ed and directed to answer the question as to the geographical
location of his next employment.
Mr. DoTLE. I believe it is clearly pertinent and you are instructed to
answer. It is a matter of identity.
Mr. Schwartz. T decline to answer tlie question on the grounds of
tlie fii'st and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. How long did your next employment endure?
I\rr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on tlie same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Wliat was the next succeeding employment after the
emplo}'ment concerning which you are reluctant to talk?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGL.\ND AREA 2323
Mr. ScjiwAKTz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Let us go bacl^wards, then, how long has your ])resent
employment endured ?
Mr. Schwartz. About a year. About one year.
Mr. Arens. At the Sonotone Corporation '(
Mr. Schwartz. That is right.
Mr. Arens. And what employment did you liave prior to your ]n-es-
ent employment ?
Mr. Schwartz. I worked for Bendix Aviation in New Jersey.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?
Mr. Schwartz. As an engineer.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time ?
Mr. Schwartz. That was about a period of four nionths.
Mr. Arens. And the employment which immediately preceded it?
Mr. Schwartz. That was radio engineering labs in New York City.
Mr. Arens. And over what period of time did that employment
endure ?
Mr. Schwartz. About eight months, roughly.
Mr. Arens. And then let us continue going backwards, if you please,
sir.
Mr. Schwartz. Yes.
Mr. Arens. What was your next employment in reverse order ?
Mr. Schwartz. McLaughlin Research Corporation.
Mr. Arens. What is the nature of the business ?
Mr. Schwartz. They are a technical writing company. I Avas em-
ployed as a technical writer with them.
Mr. Arens. How long were you employed there ?
Mr. Schwartz. About half a year.
Mr. Arens. Let us keep on going backward. What was your next
employment ?
Mr. Schwartz. Laurel Electronic Corporation. That is in New
York City.
Mr. Arens. How long did that employment endure 'I
Mr. Schwartz. About two years.
Mr. Arens. Then lielp me now and tell me where we are on the
calendar.
Mr, Schwartz. Well, I decline to answer that question.
Mr, Arens. I say, where are we on the calendar ?
Mr. Schw^artz. Oh. I see. I am sorry. That is about 1952.
Mr, Arens. All right. Is there any employment between 1049 and
1952 concerning which you can tell us without revealing information
Avhich in your judgment might be used against you in a criminal
proceeding?
(The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Schwartz. I respectfully decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens, Have you ever lived in Massachusetts ?
Mr. Schwartz. Yes, I have.
Mr, Arens, Wlien did you live in Massachusetts ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel,)
Mr, Schwartz, I lived in Boston about a year,
Mr, Aeens, Is there any other place in Massachusetts where you
have lived ?
2324 COMMUNIST ACT-mriES EST THE N'EW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer tliat question on the grounds
of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. DoTLE. I instruct you to answer tlie question, Witness. You
volunteered to ansAver the question that you lived in Massachusetts.
Therefore as a matter of identity it is pertinent and I instruct you
to answer it.
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. During what period of time did you live in Boston?
Mr. Schwartz. That was 1949 and 1950.
Mr. Arens. Where were you employed when you lived in Boston ?
Mr. Schwartz, I went to scliool during that period of time.
Mr. Arens. 'Wliere were you living ?
Mr. Schwartz. In Boston itself.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever live in a community in Massachusetts the
pronunciation of which I may not be too good at — it is Acushnet.
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question.
Mr.AiiENs. "Wliy?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest this
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, if you told this com-
mittee tnithfully while you are under oath whether or not you ever
lived in Acushnet. Massaclinsetts, you would be supplying information
which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
of the first and fifth.
Mr. Doyle. I instruct you to answer. Witness. It is pertinent on
the matter of identity. You, yourself, opened up the area as a
result of your volunteering that you had lived in Massachusetts. I
instruct you to answer it.
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer the question on the grounds
of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. For the purpose of identification kindly give us your
wife's name.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. Her name is Rosaline Schwartz.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been employed by a Cameo Curtain
Company ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been employed at any mills in the greater
Boston area ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been employed in any mills in the New
Bedford area ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. I should like if you please, sir, to display to you an
original copy of an application for employment dated February 3,
1951, signed in pencil by Arnold Schwartz, in which the applicant
lists certain information and, in the process of listing his education.
COMMUN"BST ACnVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2325
says that he has been to grammar school and to high scliool ; but the
other part of this section of the application, where inquiries are posed
respecting college education or any other higher education, is all
blank. We also see on this particular application the question: "Are
you a member of the Communist Part or affiliated in any way with
such party?" And there are two blanl:s afterwards. One says
"Yes" and the other says "No." And this application has "No"
marked. Then we also see this, "Are you a member of or do you
support any organization that believes in or teaches the overthrow
of the United States Government by force or by any illegal or uncon-
stitutional methods?" And we see "Yes" and "No" after that and
"No" is marked and the signature appears "Arnold Schwartz."
If you please, sir, kindly examine this document being exhibited to
you and see if you would not accommodate the Committee on Un-
American Activities by verifying the authenticity of that document
and telling this committee whether or not that document bears a
true and original signature by yourself.
(The document was handed to the witness.)
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Aeens. Do 3^ou honestly apprehend, sir, that if you told this
committee truthfully whether or not this is your signature on this
document which I have displayed to you, you would be supplying
information which might be used against you in a criminal
proceeding ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. jNIr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer.
Mr. Doyle. I order and direct you to answer that question, Vritness.
It is very pertinent under the rulings of tlie court.
I might say that the committee is obligated to instruct the witness
to ansv.'er if the committee anticipates ever going into court on a
contempt matter. We have to instruct the witness to answer before
we can j)roceed further.
I instruct you to answer that question.
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer on the grounds of tlie first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you, now while you
are under oath, to affirm or deny the fact that this is an application
which you did file with the Wamsutta Mills for employment for the
purpose of being a colonizer for the Communist conspiracy. If that
is not true, sir, please deny it while you are now under oath.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, Mr. Arens, here is another case where
that man who signed that is deliberately concealing the fact from a
mill that he holds a Bachelor of Science degree.
That is quite the pattern of the Communist colonizers in this
country.
24777— 58— pt. 3-
232() OOMWUNl'ST ACTlVrriES IX TTiE NEW EXCLAJSTD AREL\
Mr. xVrens. Mr. Chairman, I lespectfully suggest that the docu-
ment which I have displayed to the witness be appropriately marked
and incorporated by reference in this record.
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked.
(Document marked "Schwartz Exhibit No. 1" and retained in
committee files.)
Mr. Arens. Mr. Schwartz, kindly tell the Committee on Un-Ameri-
can Activities if you recollect what 3'our social security number is.
Mr. Doyle. He has it in his pocket no doubt.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. I respectfully decline to answer that quesiion on
the grounds of the first and fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Why didn't you tell the Wamsutta Mills when you
made application for employment about all this higher education you
had, at City College and Harvard, and the technical courses which
you had taken and j^our scholastic achievements^ Was there some-
thing 3^ou wanted to withhold from them ^
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Arexs. Did you gain employment at the Wamsutta Mills?
Mr. Schwartz. 1 decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. On these questions at the bottom part of this applica-
tion, are these responses truthful or are the}' not truthful ?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a gentleman by the name of Armando
Penha?
- Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha testified yesterda}' that for a great r.umber
of years, I believe about 8 years, he Avas undercover agent in the
Communist conspiracy for the purpose of procuring information to
protect this Nation against this conspiracy. While he was a member
of this conspiracy reporting informatio]i to the intelligence agencies
of this Government he knew you, Arnold Schwartz, as a colonizer, a
colonizer who had been employed at the Wamsutta Mills for the pur-
pose of penetrating that industrial establishment at the behest of the
Moscow-controlled conspiracy. That is a pretty serious charge to
make against a man, isn't it? Do you think that is a prett}' serious
charge to make against a man?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Barsil^k. Would you excuse us a moment, ]Mr. Arens?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
]Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the first and fifth amendments.
jNIr. Arens. Maybe you do not know Avhat you are declining here.
I just asked you if you think that is a prett}^ serious charge to level
against a man. He is in the underground apparatus of a foreign-
controlled conspiracy to overthrow the Nation, under whose flag he
obtained protection. Don't you think that is a kind of serious charge
to make against a man ? Would you want to express yourself on that,
or am T pi-obing into your thoughts?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITiIES IN THt NEW E;NGLAND AREA 2327
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. We want to afford you now, sir, while you are under
oath, subject to the possibility of pains and penalties of perjury to
which Mr. Penha was subjected, to deny that you have been and are
now a member of the underground conspiracy of the Connnunist
Party.
(The witness conferred v, itli his counsel.)
Mr. ScH"\\'ARTZ. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not the Wamsutta Mills had
Army contracts ?
Mr. ScnwARTz. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever served in the Armed Forces of this
country ?
]\lr. Schwartz. Yes, I have.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time ?
Mr. Schwartz. 19M to 1946.
Mr. Arens. Where did you serve, please, sir ?
Mr. Schwartz. Part of the time in this country and i)art of the
time in the Philippine Islands.
Mr. Arens. Did you obtain a commission ?
Mr. Schwartz. No, T was ii second class petty officer.
Mr. Arens. Did you receive an honorable discharge ?
Mr. Schwartz. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. During any time of your service in the Army were you
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I was not.
Mr. Arens. When were you discharged from the Ai'my ?
Mr. Schwartz. 1946. In June — July, rather, yes.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time during the year 1946 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. Could you repeat that question, please? I am
sorry. I just lost it.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time during 1946 ?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I was not.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time during 1947 ?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I was not.
Mr. Arens. 1948?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I was not.
Mr. Arens. 1949.
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the first and fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I am not.
Mr. Arens. Are you under Communist Party discipline?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I am not.
Mr. Arens. Are you in the Communist Party underground?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I am not.
Ml'. Arens. Have you been a member of the Conmnmist Party at
any time during 1958 ?
2328 ooMMnNi'ST activities m the new England area
Mr, Schwartz. No, I liave not.
Mr.ARENS. 1957?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I have not.
Mr.ARENS. 1956?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I have not.
Mr.ARExs. 1955?
Mr. Schwartz. No, I have not.
Mr.ARENS. 1954?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been expelled from the Communist
Party?
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the gromids
of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ?
( The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the first and fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you presently have information concerning people
who to your certain knowledge are, or have in the course of the last
three or four years been, in the Communist conspiracy in the New
England area ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Barshak. You say three or four years ? Did you say three or
four years, sir ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, Counsel.
Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. General Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. No questions.
Mr. Doyle. I have no questions.
The witness is excused.
Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will
be Mr. Paul Rosenkrants.
Kindly come forward, Mr. Rosenkrants, and remain standing while
the chairman administers an oath to you.
Mr. DoYT^E. Will the witness please raise his right hand.
Do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing, but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you. Take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OF PAUL S. ROSEISTKEANTS/ ACCOMPAWIED BY
COUIJSEL, TvICHAED S. MILSTEIN
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identfy yourself by name, residence,
and occupation ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Paul Rosenkrants, 27 Madison Avenue, Spring-
field, Massachusetts, student.
^ Voucher for witness fee signed Paul "S." Rosenkrants.
COMIvrUNIIST ACTIVITTES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2329
Mr. Arens. You are appearing here today, Mr. Rosenkrants, in
response to a siibpena which was served upon you by the House Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I am.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I am.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Mr. MiLSTEiN. Richard S. Milstein. I am associated in the firm of
Ely, King, Kingsbury and Corcoran, Springfield, Massachusetts.
Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born, Mr. Rosenkrants?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I was born in 1916 in Russia.
Mr. Arens. And when did you gain admission into the United
States for permanent residence?
Mr. Rosenkrants. In the year 1932.
Mr. Arens. You are a derivative citizen ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I am.
Mr. Ajrens. Give us, if you please, a word about your formal edu-
cation.
Mr. Rosenkrants. I am now a senior in Springfield College about
to be graduated this June.
Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, a word about the principal
employments you have held in this country since you reached adult-
hood.
Mr. Rosenkrants. I will try to work it backwards. That will be
easier for me to remember.
At the present time I am a full-time student. Prior to that I was
a salesman of baby equipment. Prior to that I worked in Westing-
house Corporation in Springfield. Prior to that I was in — I worked
in a rubber factory in Chelsea, IMassachusetts. Prior to that I was
a seaman and, as a seaman, I held many jobs and it would be rather
difficult for me to try and recall them all.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever serve on the S. S. McAllister Victory %
Mr. Rosenkrants. I believe I did.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. It was engine-room capacity. I don't remem-
ber what job. I held various jobs.
Mr. Arens. Did you have any other assignment while you were on
the S. S. McAllister Victory in 1946 ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I do not understand the question.
Mr. Arens. Well, did you have any other function that you per-
formed on board the ship, other than to help run the ship ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sorry. I still do not understand the question.
Mr. Arens. Did you conduct Communist Party indoctrination
courses aboard the S. S. McAllister Victory in 1946?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, since I am not a Communist and since I
have not been a Communist for some time, it makes me wonder of what
pertinence this question which has been sometimes — I would be glad
to discuss it with you. As a matter of fact, I do not feel that the ques-
tion of my prior activities is a m.ajor secret. They were quite public.
Wliat I am concerned as to just — I don't recall the period of McAllis-
ter Victory.
Mr. Arens. How long were you in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Oh, a number of years.
2330 OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA
Mr. Arens. Beginning when ?
Mr. RosENKRANTS. Oh, I would say 1936.
Mr. Arens. And ending when ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Well, the ending is a very difficult thing. As I
recall the ending, it evidently differs with other people's recollection
of the ending so I would just leave it at several years.
Mr. Arexs. Let's be a little more specific than that, if you please, sir.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did you disassociate yourself, or were you disassociated,
from the Communist Party at any time during the course of the last
five years ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you out of the party in 1950 ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, I had studied, not just as a lawyer but as an
individual who reads very carefully, the Watkins decision. I was very
impressed witli it. And I feel that the question which you are asking
me now is actually a question of association, as involved in the first
amendment. More than that, I would really prefer not to be pinned
down to the specific year because of the reason I already expressed.
There seems to be quite a discrepancy of wliat I recall and what some-
one else recalls.
Mr. Arens. We will do it my way, if you please, sir.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Where did you join the Communist Party ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. In New York City.
Mr. Arens. TVTiat cell or unit did you join ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. It would be hard for me to remember. It is
quite a while.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member-at-large or attached to a cell ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. No, I was attached to a cell in 1936, but however
I feel to discuss Avith you the organization — to discuss me, the fact I
was a Communist, I am willing. To discuss the fact that I was at-
tached to the group and that would be to discuss the fact which I feel
falls under the whole first amendment section.
Mr. Arens. If you had been in a narcotics ring, peddlers, selling
narcotics, to debauch the American people, would you feel the same
way?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Definitely not.
Mr. Arens. You fee} there is a distinction between a Communist
and his objectives and that of a narcotics man ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I do, sir. All the time I was in the Communist
Party I never committed an act violating Federal laws, nor do I
know of anyone else who did, so obviously I would feel differently
about that than I would about
Mr. Arens. Do you know that your Government, through your Con-
gress, has found the Communist Party of the United States to be part
and parcel of an international conspiracy controlled from Moscow?
A conspiracy, which from 1917 to 1924 alone, killed off of their own
countrymen 12,000,000 people by assassinations, executions, and
famines; that in the last 30 years, the average population of the slave
labor camps of the Soviet Union has been, the annual population, be-
tween 12 and 13 million people; that in Red China alone, an average
estimate, a conservative estimate of 20 million human beings have had
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IK THE NEW ENGLu\ND AREA 2331
their lives snuffed out in that process, the ascendancy of tliis con-
spiracy. Today this conspiracy controls 900 million people on this
globe, approximately a third of the people on this globe ; that today
this conspiracy has as its Number One target the United States of
America; that the Soviet Union and its satellites, with 25 million
agents strmig around this world in a deadly fifth column, are seeking
to destroy by every means possible the Nation under whose flag you
obtain protection; and that you, sir, were in an organization for a
number of years, by your own testimony here, which is part and parcel
of that international conspiracy and you are now in the presence of a
congressional committee seeking to procure information respecting the
function and operation of that conspiracy in the United States so that
this committee can return to Washington, D. C. and use that informa-
tion, in connection with other information we have acquired elsewliere
in the Nation, to appraise legislation designed to meet this awful God-
less threat ?
Now, sir, please tell this committee the first cell to which you were
attached in the Communist Party in the United States.
Mr. KosENKKANTS. Sir, I am very glad you made the statement you
made. I feel that I have very good reasons to be ashamed of my
membership in the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. It is not our purpose to bring you here to shame you,
sir. It is our purpose to bring you here to see if we can elicit from
you information respecting the operation of this conspiracy. You
and I have never seen each other or talked together before, have we ?
We want to talk about, if you please, sir, on your association and
membership in the Communist Party, the part of the information
which you can supply to this committee, and I implore you to do so.
Mr. EosENKRANTs. Sir, kindly let me finish what I started to say.
Mr. Arens. Proceed.
Mr. RosENKRANTs. The reason for me feeling the way that I do is
that I find it very difficult to understand the fact that over these many
years I had been involved in an organization which has such disre-
gard for individuals. I feel that the sacred rights of an individual
are the things which I was seeking, and which many other people were
seeking as young people, and which I seek now. In the Communist
Party that was lost. I feel that what has obviously taken place all
over the world wherever the Communists were in power is also very
much against the rights of those individuals.
But feeling as I do about that, I could not possibly, my conscience
would not let me, to go into any area which would subject indi-
viduals- — —
Mr. Arens. Do you think, sir, this FBI agent, Penha, who sacri-
ficed 8 3^ears of his life, who now is almost financially destitute, who
risked his own life, that this young lady here, this mother of these
2 children, who over the course of the last several years penetrated
this Godless conspiracy to get information for this Government, did
an unconscionable thing when they took an oath before God here in
this Federal Court Building and revealed to this committee and to
the American people via their testimony names of people who ai-e
now, or have in the recent past been, engaged in the operation ? Is
that your approach? Is that your analysis of the situation?
Mr, Rosenkrants, I would tell you that Mr. Penha and Mrs. Fos-
ter had to be guided b}^ their conscience. I hnvc to be guided by
2332 COMMUNTST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA
mine. And I feel that my conduct, guided by my conscience, is the
kind of a conduct that Chief Justice Warren in his wonderful de-
cision, the decision ^Yhich showed the kind of human being that he is,
the kind of understanding that he has of people and what makes
people, this is what he had in mind.
Mr. Arens. Don't you feel you ow^e a duty to your Government,
you having been in a conspiracy, whether you recognized it or not, to
come forward and give such information as you possess respecting
the operation of that conspiratorial network, the names of people who
are in there ? Don't j'ou trust your Government to use that in a man-
ner and in a form that would be fair and equitable and just, in a man-
ner that would help preserve and defend this Constitution that this
entity, of which you are a part, is dedicated to destroy ?
Mr. RosENKRANTS. Sir, I have great confidence in my Government.
Mr. Arens. Then, come forward, please, sir, and tell us the name of
the last entitj^ of the Communist Party to which you were attached.
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I liave such great confidence in my Government
that my conduct here will be well understood by the Government and
accepted.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectf ull}'' suggest this record show
an order and direction to the witness to respond to the question as
to the name and the identification of the last entity of the Communist
Party to which he was attached.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Witness, I order and direct you to answer the ques-
tion as directed to you hj our director. I believe it is pertinent and
proper for you to answer.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I respcctfully decline to answer this on the
grounds of the way I understand the first amendment to be operative
under the Watkins decision.
Mr. Arens. Let the record be clear. Are you or are you not invok-
ing — I think I understand, but I want the record to be clear — are you
or are you not invoking those provisions of the fifth amendment of the
Constitution which endow you with the privilege of not incriminating
yourself ?
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I am not invoking that.
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, so this record may be abundantly
clear may I say that the information we have and the testimony we
have procured from Mr. Penha is to the effect that, as late as 1955, this
particular witness was identified with the Metals Commission of the
Communist Party of New England, the New England District Metals
Commission ; and, as the chairman knows and as this committee
knows, the operations of that particular Commission in penetrating in-
dustrial establishments, in undertaking processes of recruitment, in
undertaking to solicit information respecting the hea"\^ industry of
this Nation that it might be crippled at the will of Moscow, is of vital
importance in the legislative function of this committee and of the
United States Congress.
Now, sir, with that explanation, I implore you to answer the ques-
tion.
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I respectfuUy decline to answer the question on
the grounds my conscience will not permit me.
COMMUNTST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2333
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, so the record may be abundantly
clear, I suij^^est just one more direction to this witness to answer the
question. You understand the question, Mr. Witness ?
Mr. RosENKRANTs. I believe I do. Do you wish to restate ? It might
be clear. I believe I understand.
Mr. Arens. I better make it absolutely clear.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Go ahead.
Mr. Arens. I don't want, a year or two years from now, to have some
questions arise on this question.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. I ask you the name of the last entity to which you,
sir, were attached and if you give me the name of the last entity, I
propose to ask you about the functions of that entity. It is my under-
standing that one of those entities was the New England District
Metals Commission. If that is the last entity, or one of the last en-
tities, I intend to pursue that thoroughly here today to get as much
information as possible so that this committee of Congressmen of the
United States may take that information back to Washington to use
it in an appraisal of proposed legislation.
Now, with that understanding, I implore you to answer this ques-
tion : Please, sir, tell us the name of the last entity within the Com-
munist Party to which you were attached.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, I understand the question and I regret it
very much — really I regret it very much — but I feel that to go into this
whole matter would be in violation of the first amendment of the
Constitution as I understand it, and therefore I decline to answer the
question.
Mr. Arens. And you are not involving the provisions of the fifth
amendment ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I am not.
Mr. Arens. Which endow you with the privilege of not incriminat-
ing yourself ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Having committed no criminal acts, I feel it
would be morally wrong for me at tliis point to invoke the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Arens. I understand.
Now, ]\rr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the record may be
abundantly clear so that the blind can see that the witness be ordered
and directed to answer that question.
Mr. DoYT.E. Mr. Witness, I order and direct you to answer the ques-
tion last asked you by our director. You said you understood his
question.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer that question.
Mr, Rosenkrants. I decline to answer the question on the grounds
of my conscience and my understanding of the first amendment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I see that there would be no fruitful
purpose served in m^e asking him other questions of a similar vein at
this time about other activities, of which we have a suggestion that
this man was in the recent past engaged in. So I, tlierefore, respect-
fully suggest that as of now that will conclude the staff interrogation
of this witness.
Mr, DoTLE. General Kearney, have you any questions ?
Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.
2334 OOMMUNTST ACTI^TTIES IN THE NEW ENGL.\ND AREIA
Mr. Doyle, I have one question, Witness, of you,
Mr. EosENKRANTS, Yes,
Mr. Doyle, You volunteered that, for a number of years, you were
a member of the Communist Party.
Mr, EosENKRANTS, Yes, sir. t
Mr. Doyle. You vokinteered that you are not now and have been
out of it, I think, according to you — since what year ?
Mr. EosENKRANTS. Several years.
Mr. Doyi.e. Several years ?
Mr. EosENKRANTS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Is that as much as five years ?
Mr. Eosenkrants. Sir, faced with the fact that my recollection as
to when I left the Communist Party is at sharp variance with other
testimony here, I prefer to just leave it at several years.
Mr, Doyle. I know. Witness, but you know as well as I do that the
word "several" is rather ambiguous and uncertain.
Mr. Eosenkrants. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I practiced law 30 years before I came to Congress.
Mr. Eosenkrants. I am not a lawyer.
Mr. Doyle. Before I came to Congress — and I would just like to
know what you mean by "several." Do you mean one or do you mean
more than one?
Mr. Eosenkrants. I mean more than one.
Mr. Doyle. Do jou mean three ?
Mr. Eosenkrants. Sir, I will have to decline to answer that ques-
tion.
Mr. D0Y1.E. Well, I will yield to General Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. Were you a member of the Communist Party in
1955?
Mr. Eosenkrants. I will decline to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Kearnev. Were you a member of the Party in 1956 ?
Mr. Eosenkrants. I will decline to answer that question.
Mr. Kearney. In 1957?
Mr. Eosenkrants. I will decline to answer that, sir.
Mr. Kearney. Now, 3'ou spolve about your conscience bothering you.
Is that your Communist conscience?
Mr. Eosenkrants. JsTo, sir. No, sir. Not bj^ any means.
Mr. Kearney. That is all.
Mr. Doyle. Witness, a minute ago you said vou had been out of
the party for several years. Now, in answer to (jreneral Kearney, you
claimed your privilege when he asked you if you were out of the party
in 1955, 1956, and 1957.
Mr. Eosenkrants. Sir, if I may — just a second.
Mr. Doyle. How do you account for that? What do you expect
me to believe your testimony to be?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Eosenkrants. Sir, on this whole matter I have been out — I
have not been a Communist for a number of years. Oh, I would say
in excess of five.
Mr. Doyle. All right.
Mr. Eosenkrants. My breaking of the organizational connection
with the Communist Party has been for several years, and I would
prefer to leave it at several years because of the difficulty for me that
OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN TPIE NEW EOMGL.\ND AREA 2335
this whole thin^ poses. I can state very — I see no purpose in follow-
ing this.
Mr. Doyle. Our director explained that we are an investigating
committee of the United States ( 'ongress, seeking facts and informa-
tion with reference to legislation.
Mr. EoSENKRANTS. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Now, since you straightened out that you meant sev-
eral to be more than five yeai's that you have been out of the party,
I will ask you why you got out of the party. Now, just a minute.
As long as you say your conscience hurts you and prevents you from
naming people that you were in the party wdth, I will state that, as
far as my question is concei'ned, I will not ask you to name the
people; but I think if you have such a quantity and quality of con-
science as you claim you have, that you will not hesitate to tell Con-
gress why you got out of the party.
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I w^ll be very happy.
Mr. Doyle. Is that a fair question ?
Mr. Rosejvkrants. I will be liappy, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Well, good. Now, go to it. Why did you get out?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, this would really have to start with why
did I join, because I got out, because after a long time — much longer
than I could be proud of, the length of time does not favorably re-
flect on my judgment — I found that the party was working against
the very things that I was looking for when I joined the party. I
joined tlie party as quite a young man and I joined the party in years
of depression. I joined the party, having been first subject to perse-
cution outside of the TTnited States in my own country, as a Jew;
then finding the same kind of situation in Florida, where I originally
went to school. Feeling the gi'ave injustice of it and feeling the great
size of the problem which faced me as an individual, and it seemed
to me as society as a whole, I was looking for a solution. And the
Communists came along and they had a solution that seemed to be
the perfect solution, and this, really a very nice worked-out solution,
misses one big point. And the big point is the individual human
being, his dignity, the respect for him, his needs, and the reality of
how people are.
Now, how is it that it took me so long to see that it is not so;
that is very difficult to say. And as I said before, it certainly does
not reflect well on my judgment, and I am ashamed of it.
Mr. Arens. Would your conscience preclude you from telling us
about your Communist Party activities in Panama?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, there was no Communist Party activities by
me in Panama.
Mr. Arens. Did you attend Connnunist Party sessions in Panama?
Mr. Rosenkrants. The Panamanian Communist Party ?
Mr. Arens. Any kind of Communist sessions in Panama.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, I was a seaman on an American ship which
spent — I was on that ship for, oh, probably in excess of a year and a
luilf, which was on a study down to Panama. I met with many sea-
men ashore, not just from the ship, and I probably met Conniuniists,
too. I attended no Paiuimanian Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Did you disseminate any Communist literature on the
ship you engaged
Mr. Rosenkrants. I certainly did.
2336 ooMiviuNrsT activities in the new exgland area
Mr. Arens. Beg pardon ?
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I Certainly did.
Mr. Arens. Can you tell us about the extent of dissemination
by you of Communist Party literature on the ships ?
Mr. IlosENKRANTS. I dou't Understand the question — the extent?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask the witness one more question, please? Our
director informed you what Mr. Penha testified to under oath.
Mr. RosENKRANTS. Yes.
Mr. DoYLE. The fact he knew you as a member of the National
Metals Commission of the Communist Party, the District Metals Com-
mittee. Did you hear him testify to that ?
Mr. RosENKEANTS. I did not hear Mr. Penha testify.
Mr. Doyle. You heard our director say Mr. Penha had so testified
yesterday under oath ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I did.
Mr. Doyle. Was Mr. Penha telling the truth or was it false ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds
Mr. Doyle. If you had been out of the party more than five years
and he testified recently he knew you in that capacity, he couldn't be
telling the truth, could he ? Either you or he are not telling the truth ?
"WHiy don't you clear that up for us, if you think your conscience makes
you tell the truth ? Why don't you tell it ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Rosenkrants. Sir, I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Kearney. What was that ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Kearney. Why ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. I feel that it is leading into a discussion of my
association with other people.
ISIr. Doyle. No. Now, let me make a proposition to you.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes, do.
Mr. Doyle. I will make a proposition with you in order that you
might satisfy your conscience, if that is what you are trying to satisfy.
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. I will make this proposition with you in asking you this
question. If you answer this question truthfully, the question I asked
you, whether or not Mr. Penha was telling the truth or lying about
you when he identified you as a member of that District Metals Com-
mission, I will promise you that I will not ask you any other question.
Is that fair?
All right, go to it. What does your conscience tell you to do ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. My conscience tells me that to get involved in a
battle with Mr. Penha on dates, I am afraid that I cannot do it.
Mr. Doyle. Then the only difference between you and Penha is one
of datevS ?
Mr. Rosenkrants. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, my 30 years of law practice would tell
me that at one time you might have been a member of the Metals Com-
mission, the way Penha testified, but you differ with him as to years, is
that it?
COMMUNIST ACnViriES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2337
Mr. EosENKRANTs. Possibly.
Mr, Doyle. Possibly.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Kearney. You haven't any doubt in your mind that Mr. Penha
was testifying to the truth here, have you ?
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I did not read Mr. Penha's testimony. I am sure
that Mr. Penha
]\[r. Kearney. I know all that. You are only telling the committee
what you want to tell.
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I am sure Mr. Penha told it the way he saw it.
Mr. Kearney. We have heard your type of witnesses before.
]Mr. RosENKRANTs. Yes, sir.
Mr. IvJEARNEY. You tell what you want to tell, and you hold back
what you want to hold back.
Now, will you swear under oath that what Mr. Penha stated yes-
terday or the day before about you in his testimony is false ?
Mr. RosENKRANTS. I will decline to do that, sir.
Mr. Kearney. I thought you would. That is all.
Mr. Doyle. There is a difference of years. That is the issue be-
tween these two gentlemen.
Thank you very much. Witness. You are excused, Mr. Rosen-
krants. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will
be Mr. Robert Handman.
Kindly come forward.
Mv. Doyle. I wish to say to General Kearney and the committee
that yesterday xlttorney Homans of Boston appeared.
Mr. HoMANS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Homans, I have been waiting to say this until I
saw you in the courtroom.
The committee wants to thank you as a member of the Boston Bar
and thank the Boston Bar for your appearance yesterday.
Mr. HoMANS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. On behalf of the Boston Bar for that witness who
claimed he couldn't hire a lawyer.
Mr. HoMANS. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. We want to "thank the Boston Bar through you, if you
will give them our appreciation.
Mr. HoMANS. I will convey your appreciation, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Handman.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Handman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT HANDMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MARY M. KAUTMAN
Mr. Arens. Please, sir, identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Handman. My name is Robert Handman. I live in New York
City. I am an accountant.
Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, please, sir?
2338 OOMMUNTST ACTIVrTIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREIA.
Mr. Hakdmax. I am employed at the Sheridan Company, New York
City.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Handman, in response
to a subpena vvliich was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Handman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel '?
Mr. Handman. Yes, I am.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Miss IVAUE3IAN. My name is ISIary M. Kaufman, of New York City.
Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ?
Mr. Handman. I was born in January, 1018, in New York City.
Mr. Arens. And a word about your education.
Mr. Handman. I completed a degree at City College in 1946 and I
attended Columbia University for one year.
Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient for you to keep your voice up
a little bit, Mr. Handman.
Mr. HA.NDMAN. Yes, I can speak louder.
Mr. Arens. Kindly do so, please.
Now, give us, if you please, the principal employments which you
have had since you completed your formal education and if you will
accommodate by giving the date again.
On what date did you complete your formal education, please, sir ?
Mr. Handman. I left Columbia University in June 1948.
Mr. Arens. 1948 ? Now, will you give us the principal employments
that you have had since that time ?
( The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the first and fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you invoking those provisions of the fifth amend-
ment which endow you with the privilege of not incriminating your-
self?
Mr. Handman. I am invoking that clause which prevents me from
bearing testimony against myself, bearing witness against myself.
Mr. Arens. What other name have you used besides the name of
Kobert Handman ?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds al-
ready stated.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever used the name of Fred ?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
already stated.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm the
fact that your code name in the Communist conspiracy has been Fi'od.
Please deny it while you are under oath if that is not true.
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
already stated.
Mr. Arens. What was your next principal employment after this
employment which you decline to tell us about ?
Mr. Handman. 1 have had my present employment for the past 3
years.
Mr. Arens. Well, is that the employment which immediately fol-
lowed the employment concerning which you decline to talk?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
COMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2339
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer any questions with regard to my
employment except for the question I just now answered, in regard to
my present employment.
Mr. Aeens. Let us be clear on this, if you please, sir. Since you
graduated or left Colmnbia University in 1948, has there been any
employment in which you have been engaged up until the time of your
present job with Sheridan Company, concerning which you can tell
this conunittee without revealing facts which, in your judgment, might
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer any questions regarding any
previous employment on the grounds of the first and fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Charles Benson
Childs?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer tliat question on the grounds al-
ready stated.
Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on tlie grounds
already stated.
jSIr. Arens. A year or so ago, we were interrogating Charles Benson
Childs. I believe at that time we were down in North Carolina. I
would like to read you a little of the testimony, if I may, please, sir.
I was interrogating the witness.
Q. Did be tell you with what division or uuit of the National Committee of
the Communist Party he was identitiedV
Mr. Childs. I do not recall that ; no, sir. The district organizer, we called Bob
at the party school.
Then we skip a little, and I say :
Q. Can you give us a further description of Handman and his activities or
baclf ground V
Mr. Childs. He was the district organizer for the State of Virginia.
Q. He came in from Virginia to this Communist Party leadership training
school ; is that correct V
Mr. Childs. That is my understanding.
Did you ever use the name of Bob as a code name?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Handman. jNIy name is Eobert Handman, but I refuse to
answer questions regarding code names.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever live in the State of Virginia ?
Mr. H.VNDMAN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds I
aheady stated.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever lived here in this state — by this state 1
nie;in Massachusetts, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Handman. No, I haven't lived in this state.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever worked in this state ?
Mr. Handman. No.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Armando Penha ?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds al-
ready stated.
l\tr. Arens. Mr. Penha testified yesterday or the day before yes-
terday- — within the course of the last two days, anyway — that while
1io was an undercover agent in the Communist Party, he knew you,
2340 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW ENGLAND AEKA
Kobert Handman, as a Communist ; that you were in the underground,
an ardent Communist; that you were national coordinator of the
Textile Commission operating out of New York City.
We want to give you an opportunity now, please, sir, to deny that
very serious allegation respecting yourself. Do you care to avail
yourself of that opportunity ?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
already stated.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
already stated.
Mr. Kearney. If you were not a member of the Communist Party
at the present time, would you so state ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Handman. I decline to answer that question for the same
reasons.
Mr. Kearney. Were you in the military service ?
Mr. Handman. Yes, I was.
Mr. Kearney. What period of time ?
Mr. Handman. I enlisted on January 7, 1942, in the United States
Army. I was mustered out on April 6, 1946.
Mr. Kearney. An honorable discharge ?
Mr. Handman. I received an honorable discharge.
]Mr. Kearney. That is all.
Mr. Doyle. Have you any other questions, Greneral Kearney ?
Mr. Kjiarney. I have no further questions.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if we might have a two- or
three-minute break to relax for a minute ?
Mr. Doyle. We will have a five-minute break.
Miss Kaufman. Is this witness excused ?
Mr. DoiTLE. Yes, the witness is excused.
(Brief recess.)
(Committee members present: Representatives Doyle and
Kearney.)
Mr. Doyle. The committee will reconvene and come to order after
a five-minute recess. Let the record show that General Kearney, of
New York, and Clyde Doyle, of California, are both present. There-
fore, a legal subcommittee is present. Proceed, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Elias Snitzer, kindly come forward.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Snitzer, -will you please raise your right hand and
be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Snitzer. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you. Will you take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OF ELIAS SNITZER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
GEEALD A. BERLIN
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Snitzer. My name is Elias Snitzer. I live at 30 Burtt Street,
in Lowell, Massachusetts, and I am a physicist and teacher.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today
OOMMUNTST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2341
jNIr. Snitzer. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Arens. Excuse me. Let me get the record
Mr. Snitzer. I should like
Mr. Arens. The formal record made, please, sir, and then we will
hear you.
Mr. Snitzer. All right.
Mr. x\rens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Activ-
ities?
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Arens. And 3^011 are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Snitzer. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Counsel kindly identify himself.
Mr. Berlin. Gerald A. Berlin, 30 State Street, Boston.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, you started to say something ?
Mr. Snitzer. Yes. I understood from my attorney that, yesterday,
the authorizing resolution constituting this subcommittee was read.
I understand there was an authorizing resolution which was passed
on January 15 and, for the sake of the record, I would appreciate that
being read today for me and my attorney.
Mr. Arens. Would it make any difference in the questions or answers
that you give us, whether or not we read it again ? It is rather volum-
inous and takes up time.
jSIr. Snitzer. Well, what I would like to enter here is the question
of pertinency. I have some real doubts about whether my being sub-
penaed here is in any way pertinent to the purpose of the investigation,
so I would like for the record a clear statement of the purpose of this
investigation, if you please.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Arens can ably and briefly tell you again the per-
tinency, and we want to make it adequate so that you understand the
pertinency of it. You have been in the courtroom all day, haven't
you i
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, I have.
Mr. Doyle. You heard the explanation of the pertinency of this
investigation all day, and you heard several of them. Why do you
want it repeated for your special benefit when you heard the others
get the same explanation that you would get now? However, Mr.
Arens, go ahead.
Mr. Snitzer. I should like to have it repeated for my special bene-
fit.
Mr. Arens. Let me sum
Mr. Doyle. Well, all right.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Snitzer. It will only take a matter of minutes.
Mr. Kearney. Just one momerit. Were you in the courtroom yes-
terday ?
Mr. Snitzer. Part of the time, yes.
Mr. Kearney. Did you ask counsel yesterday for a copy of this
resolution ?
Mr. Snitzer. No, I did not.
Mr. Kearney. Did you ask for a copy of it today ?
]\Ir. Snitzer. Did I ask for a copy of the resolution today ?
I\f r. Kearney. Yes.
24777 — «V8 — pt. 3 .5
2342 ooMMuisrisT acttvtties m the ni:w England area
Mr. Snitzer. No, I did not.
Mr. I^ARNET. Prior to now?
Mr. Snitzer. No, I did not.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, your actions would be more or less
dilatory tactics, would they not ?
Mr. Snitzer. No, they would not, certainly not. If you permit me
to explain
Mr. Ivearney. Would you be satisfied if a copy of the resolution be
handed to you ?
Mr. Snitzer. I would like the resolution to be read for the sake
of the record.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, we present you with a copy of the resolution
which is two pages typed. And we will hesitate a few minutes while
you read it.
Mr. Kearney. You don't have to read it.
Mr. Snitzer. Mr. Berlin, would you consider that to be satisfactory ?
Mr. Berlin. Yes, and I would like to have it marked for
identification.
Mr. Snitzer. Thank you, Mr. Berlin.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, the resolution is in the record, and I
don't believe legally it is necessary to reread that resolution simply
because this witness desires it. He has a copy of it now, and I move
that we proceed.
Mr. Snitzer. My attorney informed me it would be satisfactory if
the resolution not be read.
Mr. Doyle. Even under the Watkins decision, we don't have to read
it for his special benefit. He heard it yesterday.
Mr. Snitzer. I did not hear it yesterday.
Mr. Doyle. You heard it explained by our counsel yesterday. You
were in the courtroom part of the time, you said so, and you heard it
today four or five times.
Mr. Snitzer. That is right. I did not hear any of the witnesses
when they first came to the stand yesterday.
Mr. Doyle. All right. Your counsel
Mr. Snitzer. If my counsel advises me it is adequate and simply to
have it marked for the record and simply put in the record, I will not
request the authorizing resolution be read. In fact, that satisfies me
now.
Mr. Arens. The fact you have seen this lengthy resolution, will
that change your testimony in any way and make you tell us material
that you would not tell us otherwise ?
Mr. Snitzer. You will have to wait and ask the question and find
out.
Mr. Arens. Are you now, and have you ever been, a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. I would like to explain the reason why I am going to
answer that question, and now I definitely intend to answer. It is my
own feeling that my thoughts and associations are entirely a matter
of my own concern. They are a private matter guaranteed by the
first amendment, the guarantee which was recently upheld in the
Watkins case. However, it is a contradictory consideration, and that
consideration arises from my present employment. I am teaching at
the Lowell Technological Institute, a small school which, in my
opinion, has a great future. However, because of this investigation
COMMUNIST ACnVnTES EST THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2343
and because it is a State school, I can easily be harmed by this in-
vestigation. For that reason I am relaxing my principles, the prin-
ciples mainly that no one has any right to inquire into my beliefs or
associations — I relax them to the extent of discussing anything which
has happened since I have been here at Lowell Technological Insti-
tute. I am
Mr. Arens. Would you relax them back past 1956 for us ?
Mr. Snitzer. No, I will not.
Mr. Arens. You won't relax your principles back past 1956 ?
Mr. Snitzer. That is correct. It is not relaxing back to 1956 ; it is
relaxing them in such a way as to make it possible for the Lowell
Technological Institute to come out of this investigation without any
doubt concerning any member of its faculty. As I am fully aware of
the fact
Mr. Arens. You understand we are not investigating Lowell Tech-
nological Institute. We have
Mr. Snitzer. I am of the — I think this investigation wiU hurt
Lowell Tech
Mr. Arens. When we investigate a Communist in labor, they say
we are trying to bust unions; when we investigate Communists in
some other nonsensitive organization, they say you are trying to bust
the organization. When we find a Commie in a school they say you
are after the school. Sir, our intent
Mr. Snitzer. I don't say you are after the school.
Mr. Arens. Our intent and purpose is not to investigate Lowell
Institute.
Mr. Snitzer. I understand that,
Mr. Arens. Or any educational institution, and we don't want any
one brainwashed on that theory to think otherwise. Our sole and
exclusive prerogative and function is to acquire information respect-
ing Communist activities. And we intend to do so wherever they are,
under whatever circumstances, and under whatever guise.
Now, sir, kindly tell us
Mr. Snitzer. Mr. Chairman, may
Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. I am not now a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Snitzer. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it is
invasion of my right of privacy and of association and thought.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be
ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not he
has ever been a member of the Communist Party ; and so there will be
no possible misconstruction of the question, may I explain to him, to
the point of ad nauseam on this record, that this Committee on Un-
American Activities is in the process of acquiring information on
which it may legislate or recommend legislation to the United States
Congress for the purpose of protecting this country, its institutions,
its colleges, its right to pursuit of truth in educational institutions,
and the like. It is our information, sir, that you have, in the recent
past, been a member of the Communist conspiracy ; that you, sir, now
have information respecting persons who have been in the recent past
in the Communist conspiracy, penetrating educational institutions,
penetrating all walks of life, undertaking to brainwash the yoimg
2344 ooMMUNrsT AcnvmES in the new England area
people coming up, turning the processes of education of this great
Republic into the Godless, atheist, conspiratorial operations from
Moscow.
Now, sir, if you will give us that information, which we under-
stand you possess, we will take that back to Washington. We will
appraise that in connection with other information which we have
in deliberating upon numerous provisions of laws or proposed laws
pending before this committee, so that if the Congress of the United
States, weighing that information, in its judgment feels the informa-
tion warrants it, it m-ay pass this legislation to protect this country
against Communists, against Communist dupes, and against the opera-
tion of this Godless conspiracy which threatens the world.
Now, sir, please answer the question. Are you now, or have you
ever been, a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. I just answered that I am not now a member of the
Communist Party, nor have I been a member of the Communist Party
for the full time that I have been teaching at Lowell Technological In-
stitute. I refuse to answer concerning previous associations, and my
refusal to answer is specifically because I feel this committee is, by far,
the greatest danger to our American democratic freedom, our civil
liberties.
Mr. Kearney. That is the perfect Commie line.
Mr. Snitzer. I would like to add further
Mr. Kearney. That is word for word, every hearing I have been
connected with, and throughout this country.
Mr. Snitzer. I have never engaged in any kind of subversive activ-
ity, any kind of illegal act in my life. I have no hesitation to discuss
all of these matters with the press. In fact, I have already. Any ques-
tions you put to me, I would be perfectly willing to talk with the press
immediately afterwards.
Mr. Kearney. While not under oath.
Mr. Snitzer. But I will not be compelled before a congressional
committee to state my views or associations. This is a violation of the
protection under the first amendment; and, furthermore, the only way
m which I, as an individual, can protect the first amendment is to
exercise it, and I propose to exercise it today.
Mr. Kearney. If you would stop making a speech for a few minutes,
counsel could get in a few words and we might get some place.
Mr. Arens. You realize when you talk to the press you are not under
oath.
Mr. Snitzer. That is right. I rely on integrity.
Mr. Arens. You realize when you talk to the press you are not sub-
ject to the pains and penalties of perjury, do you not ?
Mr. Snitzer. I realize that and, as I say, I rely on my integrity
which no one past and present
Mr. Arens. We are going to test your integrity in just a minute.
We are not discussing that now. How long have you been at Lowell
Institute ?
Mr. Snitzer. I have been at Lowell Institute since September of '56.
Mr. Arens. Did you, in the process of applying for your job there
at Lowell Institute, exercise your integrity by telling the officials
there of your past association, identification, affiliation in the Com-
munist conspiracy?
OOMMUNTIST ACTTVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2345
Mr. Snitzer. When I had my original interview with the officials,
the administration of Lowell Technological Institute made clear essen-
tially three things. This was an interview which I deliberately called
for, even though the job was offered to me in a telephone conversa-
tion prior to the interview. Those three things were the following:
First, I had a past of left-wing activity.
Mr. Arens. Did you say just left-wing activity or did you tell them
Communist Party activity?
Mr. Snitzer. I did not specifically tell them Communist Party ac-
tivity. However, if you wait just a moment
Mr. Arens. What was your integrity at that time ?
Mr. Snitzer. —you will see as I answer this.
Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, sir.
Mr. Snitzer. Essentially three things, as I said before: That I had
a past of left-wing activity but I felt, as far as I was concerned, this
was a closed book. Secondly, if I were ever investigated b}^ an investi-
gating committee, that there was a very good chance that I would use
the fifth amendment. According to standards that exist today, this
would probably have labeled me a Fifth Amendment Communist.
However, today I have no intention of using the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you make-
Mr. Snitzer. And third — I am not finished yet — third, please
Mr. Arens. Excuse me. Go right ahead.
Mr. Snitzer. Third, I have no intention of getting in any kind of
activity that would, in unj way, reflect on the Institute.
It was under these provisions that I was hired.
Mr. Arens. Did you make any distinction in your presentation to
this board, stimulated by your concepts of integrity, between left-wing
activity and membership in the Communist conspiracy ?
Mr. Snitzer. I did not believe it was necessary. I thought that in
my discussion with my officials there, it was abundantly clear whatever
political associations I may have had in the past. I made also clear
to them that I was not now a member of the Connnunist Party, as I
said before, nor was I engaged in any activity which, in any way,
would reflect on the Institute.
Mr. Arens. Were you
Mr. Snitzer. I don't think there was any question in the mind of
the person with whom I talked concerning possible previous associ-
ations.
Mr. Arens. Let's forget about the previous associations. Don't
construe our inquiry here on associations. Did you tell them whether
or not you had been, in the recent past
Mr. Snitzer. I already made clear what I told them.
Mr, Arens. — a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. I already made clear what I told them, essentially
those three things.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir
Mr. Snitzer. When you speak of something like membership in the
Communist Party, the specific question as to was I previously a mem-
ber of the Communist Party, as I recall, was not raised. I felt, how-
ever, it was necessary to make perfectly clear to the person with whom
I spoke that I did liave a political past, that there was a very good
chance that I might stand on the fifth amendment if ever investigated.
2346 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Now, I ask you if someone were to speak to you and put those
propositions to you, would there be any questions in your mind con-
cerning a person's political past ?
Mr. Arens. I would immediately ask them, "What do you mean by
'political past,' Democrat, Eepublican, or a member of the conspiracy,
sir?"
Mr. Snitzer. The question was not asked me.
Mr. Arens. The question was not asked you ?
Mr. Snitzer. As far as political past, there was something else in
the interview, a letter. That letter stated that I was involved in politi-
cal activity in the past at the University of Chicago, which related
generally to the area of left-wing political activity. I have forgotten
the exact phraseology of the letter. The person with whom I spoke
made reference to the letter.
Secondly, that person who wrote the letter of recommendation esti-
mated I would probably not be able to get Government security
clearance.
Mr. Arens. Tell me
Mr. Snitzer. I made clear, furthermore, to the person with whom
I spoke that I had no intention of applying for clearance.
Mr. Arens. Tell us, what did you mean by a political activity in
your past, what type of activity ?
Mr. Snitzer. As I have already indicated, it was left-wing political
activity.
Mr. Arens. What kind?
Mr. Snitzer. Open activity on the campus at the University of
Chicago. Beyond that I have no intention of stating to you.
Mr. Arens. What did you mean now ? What impression did you
mean to convey to the listener at the school when you were applying
for a job, when you said you had a past of left-wing political activityl
Did you mean you were in the Democratic Party, the Eepublican
Party, or just what did you mean, when you said you had an activity
in the past, a political activity ?
Mr. Snitzer. I think that question is just simply an attempt to
get me to say that
Mr. Arens. An attempt to get you to tell the truth. Were you a
Communist ?
Mr. Snitzer. I told you the truth. I made clear I have no inten-
tion of telling you whether I was a Communist or not. I don't be-
lieve it is the business of this committee to inquire into the associa-
tions or the beliefs of anyone, and I intend to exercise that right and
enforce this committee to respect it.
Mr. Arens. You told us what your intentions were with reference
to this committee. You opened the door as to your intentions. Tell
us whether or not your intentions were to convey the impression of
whether or not you had been a member of the Communist Party but
you were engaged in certain political activities ?
Mr. Snitzer. That statement I believe to be untrue.
Now, I don't think there is any question ; as I said before, any intel-
ligent listener, and certainly a person responsible in administration
would have no question concerning what was meant by the statements
which I just conveyed to you.
Mr. Arens. We are a little bit on the dull side this afternoon. Tell
us, did you mean to convey that you were
COMMUNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2347
Mr. Snitzer. I will not
Mr. Arens. —a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. I will not be tricked into stating what I told this
committee already. I don't believe it has any right to inquire into
it. I will make any statement to the press. I invite you to recess
these hearings and have a press conference, and I will make a state-
ment to the press what I had been undertaking in the past. I don't
think it is the right of this committee to inquire into a person's be-
liefs or associations.
Mr. Arens. Let's forget about political beliefs and associations.
Let's keep you under oath so what you do say will be under the pains
and penalties of perjury.
Mr. Snitzer. My integrity has never been questioned.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, how were you engaged immediately prior to
the time that you went to Lowell Institute ?
Mr. Snitzer. At the Brown Instrument Division of Minneapolis-
Honeywell.
Mr. Arens. How long were you employed there ?
Mr. Snitzer. T'rom February of '54 until just prior to coming to
Lowell Tech.
Mr. Arens. What precipitated the disassociation of yourself from
that organization ?
Mr. Snitzer. What precipitated the disassociation ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. What caused it ? Why did you leave ?
Mr. Snitzer. I was unhappy with my job. I wanted to go into
teaching.
Mr. Arens. Did they have defense contracts at this particular estab-
lishment?
Mr. Snitzer. ^Vliat kind of defense contracts are you talking about?
Mr. Arens. Any kind of defense contracts ; you would know.
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, they did. I was a contract engineer under a con-
tract awarded from Fort Monmouth, the Signal Corps. However, it
was an unclassified contract. At the time I gained employment in
Minneapolis-Honeywell, I specifically asked whether they had any
clearance requirements. I was told no, so I was hired.
Mr. Arens. When were you employed at this Honeywell place, this
Minneapolis establishment?
Mr. Snitzer. In Philadelphia.
Mr. Arens. I say, when ?
Mr. Snitzer. As I said before, February '54 until just prior to com-
ing to Lowell Tech.
Mr. Arens. During the time you were working there at that estab-
lishment having defense contracts, at any time were you a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. As I said before, I have no intention about answering
any political beliefs or associations prior to coming to Lowell Tech.
I would answer concerning them in the present period. I will even
answer concerning questions raised concerning the Communist Party
at the present time. As far as what happened prior to my coming here,
and I do this because I specifically feel that it is necessary to make a
point of the fact, this committee has no right to inquire into beliefs and
associations.
2348 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Arexs. Are there any persons who, to your certain knowledge,
are or have been in the course of the period since 1954 employed at the
Minneapolis-Honeywell plant who are Communists '^
Mr. Snitzee. I think I made it perfectly clear. I have no intention
of answering concerning any questions in the past, and I repeat that
statement.
Mr. Akens. Noav, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness
be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. Yes. Witness, I direct that you answer the question.
I believe it is clearly pertinent and proper.
Mr. Snitzer. I would like to question that direction. I don't feel
it is pertinent and proper. I would like Mr. Arens or yourself to indi-
cate the pertinency.
Mr. Arens. I will go through it again and a thousand times if it
might serve our purposes, that is, to explain to you, Witness, if you do
have information respecting Communists who are employed at the
Minneapolis-Honeywell plant or any other plant, in the course of the
past few years, who are Communists in plants where there are de-
fense contracts, it is the concern of this committee, so that this com-
mittee may initiate legislation, or initiate an inquiry looking toward
legislation, to protect defense establishments from the penetration of
Communists. Some of that legislation has already been suggested.
You might be interested to know that, at the present time, the tie-
lines and lease-lines out of the Pentagon, processing messages of de-
fense interest to this Nation, are serviced, these tie-lines are serviced by
members of an organization controlled by the Communist conspiracy.
You might be interested to know, sir, that that organization, the
American Communications Association, is now certified as a bargain-
ing agent by the National Labor Relations Board. And if the employ-
ers do not bargain with that Communist-controlled organization, they
are guilty of an unfair labor practice.
You might be interested to know, sir, at the present time while I am
talking to you, vital mines of this Nation in the West are serviced by
some 80,000 people in the International Mine, Mill and Smelter's
Union, which is controlled lock, stock, and barrel by the Communist
conspiracy, and if the owners of those mines do not bargain with the
conspiracy, they under the present law are guilty of an unfair labor
practice.
You might be interested to know, sir, that before this committee,
representatives of the Pentagon and of the military and of the defense
establishment of this Nation have appeared and pled for legislation
whereby there can be foreclosed from admission to the defense estab-
lishments known hard-core Communist conspirators.
And you sit here, under the protection of the flag of America, pos-
sessed of information — at least apparently possessed of information —
respecting persons who to your certain knowledge are Communists
employed in the establishment engaged with defense contracts, for
defense of this great Republic; and you will not tell us about it be-
cause you don't think it is pertinent to the inquiry of this committee of
the United States Congress.
If that is the law, sir, and if that is right, God help this Republic.
I plead with you : Tell us, do you now know the names of persons who,
in the course of the last three or four years, to your certain knowledge
commun^iiSt act'IYIttes est the new englajstd area 2349
Avere Communists, employed in the Minneapolis-Honeywell Company
where defense contracts were being consummated ?
Mr. Snitzer. Mr. Berlin, what would you advise on this question ?
Mr. Berlin, Well, in all fairness, I don't think that the director has
set forth with undisputable clarity, to use the words of the Watkins
decision, what the subject matter of this inquiry is, in so far as your
employment in the Minneapolis-Honeywell, Brown Instrument Di-
vision, in 1954 is concerned. And so I think you could object to the
hearings on grounds of pertinency, and should.
Mr. Snitzer. On the advice of counsel, I object to this question on
the grounds of pertinency and refuse to answer this question.
Mr. Arens. If I haven't made this record clear, it is beyond my com-
petence to do so. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest now this
record reflect an order and direction to this witness to answer the
last outstanding principal question.
Mr, Doyle. Witness, I want you to tell me if you do not hear clearly,
or if you do not understand my order and direction. Will you do that 'i
I am now directing and ordering you to answer Mr. Arens' question.
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, I understand that. And again I refuse to answer
on the grounds that I tliink it is not a pertinent question.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Snitzer. Just a moment, please,
Mr, Arens, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Snitzer. I would like to consult with my lawyer.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff inter-
rogation of this witness.
Mr. Kearney. Were you in the service ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Snitzer. I am sorry. I didn't hear that question.
Mr. Kearney. I asked you if you were in the service.
Mr. Snitzer. Am I now in the service
Mr. Kearney. No, no. I asked you if you were in the Army.
Mr. Snitzer. Yes. I was in the service.
Mr. Kearney. Pardon ?
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, I was. I enlisted in the Navy. Would you
like a quick rundown of my service associations ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes, or no might be satisfactory.
Mr, Snitzer, Yes, All right,
Mr, Kearney, What years were you in the service ?
Mr, Snitzer, I was on active duty from July of '43 until August
of '46, and I was placed in the reserves because I was an officer at the
time I left the service ; and then at the time I left active cluty, I got
an honorable release from active duty. However, in the status of
reserves, I was released from the reserve status under conditions other
than honorable, the reasons which were given at the time was that I
was associated with left-wing activity at the University of Chicago,
all of which activity, I would like to add, was open activity on the
campus, a matter of public record.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, the record still stands that you were
released under conditions other than honorable ?
Mr. Snitzer. That is correct,
Mr, ICearney. Did you attend college after you left the service?
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, I did.
2350 ooMMiJisrisT ACTivrriES in the kew England area
Mr. Kearney. Were you in school under the G. I. Bill ?
Mr. Snitzer. That is right, I was.
Mr. IvEARNEY. You what ?
Mr. Snitzer. Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Kearney, Even though you had left the service under condi-
tions other than honorable ?
Mr. Snitzer. Just a moment, please. At the time I left the serv-
ice under conditions other than honorable, this was in 1954. I grad-
uated with a PhD degree in physics in 1953.
Mr. Kearney. At the time that you were in the service, were you
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. When you say "service" do you mean by that active
duty? I would like to make clear that I am prepared to answer
concerning any time I was in the service on active duty. However,
when I was placed in the reserve status, I had no contacts at all with
the service.
Mr. Kearney. While you were in the Army on active duty
Mr. Snitzer. Navy.
Mr. Kj:arney. — were you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. No, I was not.
Mr. Ivearney. When you were in the reserves, were you a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Snitzer. Again I refuse to answer on the grounds I feel this
committee has no right to inquire into that matter.
Mr. Kearney. That is all.
Mr. Doyle. In asking you these few questions which I will ask you,
I wish to state frankly that I will not intentionally ask you about any
of your associations, that is, I will not ask you for any names. I in-
tend to base my few questions to you purely on your own activities.
Is that clear ?
Mr. Snitzer. Yes. Well, as I said before, I am quite prepared to
discuss any matter that has hapj)ened since I have been here at Lowell
Technological Institute.
Mr. Doyle. Of course this committee, in mj judgment, is fully en-
titled, under the law and under the Watkins decision, which you and
your counsel are well informed about, I hope, to go into your ac-
tivities. We are legally entitled to go into your activities, as a proper
field of investigation for the purpose of considering remedying or
changing or filing or recommending legislation in the field of sub-
versive activity.
Now, I will be brief, and I hope you will be brief. I will not try
to make a speech, and you have had your chance and have taken ad-
vantage of it.
Now, I made notes as you testified. I practiced law 30 years before
I first came to Congress, so I am used to making notes. You said that
you did not specify to the school authorities the Communist Party.
You did specify that you had been engaged in left-wing activities,
as I understood you to say.
Is there a difference in your mind between left-wing activities and
the Communist Party, or can I ask you this question
Mr. Snitzer. Very definite!}" there is a difference.
Mr. Doyle. Wliy didn't you specify the Communist Party as one
of your activities ?
COMMUISmST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW EOSTGLAND AREA 2351
Mr. Snitzer, For one reason, that I wasn't specifically requested;
and, secondly, I indicated very early in the interview that I had these
left-wing associations and, furthermore, I would probably use the
fifth amendment if ever called before an investigating committee.
However, I don't use the fifth amendment, because I feel since that
time the fifth amendment has, to some extent, become a clear indica-
tion of guilt. I have done nothing wrong at any time and, therefore,
I feel no need to exercise the rights under the fifth amendment.
Let me make this clear, that in an interview, especially in an aca-
demic community, there is a certain amount of finesse that is pre-
sumed on both sides. "VAHiat you attempt to do is make clear your posi-
tion to the person who is interviewing you, and it is not necessary
to have the specific answers and questions on each point.
Mr. DoTLE. Yes.
Mr. Snitzer. But what is necessary, is to make clear the character
of the person who is being interviewed and that I felt I did.
Mr. Doyle. I am a little bit familiar with education procedures be-
cause I was a member of the California State Board of Education for
some time. So what you are talking about is not entirely Greek to
me. I know more than possibly you make allowance for me to know
on those matters.
I noticed you said that the person who wrote the letter of recom-
mendation estimated that you would not be able to get a Government
security clearance and that you specifically asked the school authority
whether or not they had security clearance requirements.
Mr. Snitzer. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. Why did you ask the school board that in your applica-
tion for a job?
Mr. Snitzer. Because I feel that in these days of hysteria there is
a definite equivalence made between a person being associated with
either left-wing activities or any type of left-wing activities and the
implication of being a spy or saboteur. Now, I have never been either.
I would never, under any conditions, turn over secrets to anybody.
Furthermore, I would turn over anyone who ever did such a thing to
proper authorities.
Mr. Doyle. Of course
Mr. Snitzer. But I am not going to get myself into a position
where I would be vulnerable and subject to any kind of attack on
that base. So I specifically decline concerning this point.
I would like to add, any job I have ever been interviewed for,
whether in industry or school, I always inquired concerning that same
point.
Mr. Doyle. All right. I listened to you make another appropriate
speech. Now, let me ask a question : Did you separate yourself volun-
tarily from the military service and active service or were you
separated for less-than-honorable discharge?
Mr. Snitzer. Well, that question is not entirely clear, because from
1951 to 1954 I had an active exchange of letters with the Navy. The
Navy kept sending me letters with a bill of particulars. As I said, this
bill of particulars included all open activity that I engaged in at the
University of Chicago campus. However, the set of points elicited
were points contained in the confidential communication to me, so I
2352 OOMIMUNTST ACTIVrTIES EST THE NEW ENGliAND AREA
don't feel at liberty to disclose it here, except to say these were open
activities that I engaged in at the University of Chicago._
Mr. Doyle. Was there a court-martial in connection with it?
Mr. Snitzer. To my knowledge, my recollection of it, there was
not.
Mr. DoTLE. You would have a clear recollection, wouldn't you, as to
whether or not
Mr. Snitzer. No. I will tell you what happened. No, there was
not a court-martial.
Mr. DoYLE. There was a hearing of some sort ?
Mr. Snitzer. No, not to my knowledge. There wasn't. At least I
was not present at the hearing. This is what I did in my communica-
tion with the Navy. Every time I received a communication from
them, I sent back a respectful and courteous letter requesting that I be
allowed to resign from the service, and they sent back a letter saying
they would like to arrange a Board of Officers for me, and I kept
sending back saying that I would like to resign. This exchange of let-
ters between myself and the Navy continued, as I said, from 1951 to
1954, until I finally got the discharge, and the discharge was as I
indicated.
Mr. Doyle. I am on the Armed Services Committee of Congress
also, and I know that very frequently they ask a man if he would like
to resign instead of standing court-martial. That is quite a habit of
the Armed Forces. I don't know if that occurred in your case, but at
any rate you stated
;jilr. Snitzer. No, that was not the case. I recall now that you men-
tioned the point, that I was told specifically that I could not be court-
martialed because I was not in a sufficiently active status in the re-
serves.
Mr. Doyle. Oh, yes. That is the technical point. I thought there
was some technicality there, which is explanatory. At any rate, you
could not get security clearance from the Government and you notified
the school department to that effect and you never have received se-
curity clearance from the Government, have you ?
Mr. Snitzer. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. That is correct. So that when you were contract engi-
neer for this large corporation dealing with national defense contracts,
and you were the contract engineer thereof, according to your own
testimony, you were in a status with the military department where
you did not have security clearance. That is correct, isn't it?
Mr. Snitzer. That is correct. The reason for that was the work I
was doing was not considered to be secret work.
Mr. Doyle. Oh, I see.
Mr. Snitzer. There was no classification attached to the project. I
would like to add that the Minneapolis-Honeywell is very scrupulous
in obeying the security requirements in any contract which requires
such requirement.
Mr. Doyle. The Government doesn't usually withhold security
clearance from American citizens in the military department unless
they do it for cause, in their judgment.
Mr. Snitzer. Well, that is why I haven't had any — ^because I haven't
applied for clearance.
Mr. Doyle. All right. Now, one more question.
General Kearney, do you want to ask a question?
ooMMxnsriST activittes m the new eostgland area 2353
Mr. Kearney. When were you commissioned in the Navy ?
Mr. Snitzer. To the best of my recollection about 19 — it was the
latter part of the summer of 1945.
Mr. Kearney. Was an investigation made of yourself at the time
prior to your commission ?
Mr. SNrrzER. Oh, 1 doubt it very much. I was entirely apolitical
at the time.
Mr. Kearney. You what?
Mr. Snitzer. I was entirely apolitical at the time. I was naive about
politics of all forms,
Mr. IvEARNEY. You are not so naive now.
Mr. Snitzer. I try to think not.
Mr. Kearney. We think so, too.
When were you separated from your commission ?
Mr. Snitzer, That was the first of August 1946.
Mr. Kearney. Isn't it true that today if war should break out be-
tween this country and any other country — let me put it that way —
you, under your terms of separation from the Navy as a commissioned
officer, would be prohibited from ever accepting a commission from the
United States Government again?
Mr. Snitzer. I don't know whether that is the case or not. I would
guess so.
Mr. Kearney, You would guess so ?
Mr. Snitzer. You are probably more conversant on those matters
than I.
Mr, Kearney. I would guess so along with you. That is all.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask one more question, please? Of course, I
think General Kearney knows what he is talking about, because he is
a retired Army General in his own right, and a most distinguished
one.
May I ask this question, and I state that I am assuming for the
purpose of this question, because of your testimony, that there was a
time when you were a member of the Communist Party. In answer
to his questions, you pleaded your constitutional privilege. But to me
you made it abundantly clear that one reason you will not aid or as-
sist this committee in getting any facts about a period in your life
when you were a member of the Communist Party — and again that is
my assumption from your own testimony and your own lips — ^that the
chief reason that you are not willing to help your United States Con-
gress is because you do want to say nothing in public while you are
under oath that would hurt Lowell School District. Isn't that the
burden ?
Mr. Snitzer. I don't quite get what you are getting at.
Mr. Doyle. I am getting at this, Mr. Snitzer. You are an elemen-
tary school teacher.
Mr. Snitzer. No, that is not true.
Mr. Doyle. What grade ?
Mr. Snitzer. I teach on the undergraduate and graduate level at the
Lowell Technological Institute.
Mr. Doyle. Well, you are in even a more sensitive position than
I thought you were so far as American youth is concerned. It is pretty
dangerous in my book to have any man who is guided by the Com-
munist philosophy in a public school room teaching.
2354 OOMMtTNTST ACTIVTTI'E'S EN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Snitzer. I am not guided by the Communist philosophy. In
fact, I have distinct disagreements with the Communist philosophy.
I do not consider myself even to be ideologically with the Communists
today. I have definite disagreements.
Mr. D0Y1.E. Thank goodness for that.
Mr. Snitzer. I am very definitely not a Communist.
Mr. Doyle. Why did you get out or why did you separate from the
Communist ideology ?
Mr. Snitzer. The question presumes that I was in, and that has not
been established yet. However, I will give my reasons for disagreeing
with the Communist Party if you like.
Mr, DoYT.E. I would like you to. But don't give us too long a
speech.
Mr. Snitzer. I would say it is essentially three things, I think.
First, the attitude toward the SoAaet Union. I think there has not
been sufficiently a critical attitude towards the obvious shortcomings
that exist in the Soviet Union. This is made clear by the Khrushchev
report of the Twentieth Congress of the Soviet Union. There is no
question but that the Soviet Union had a considerable miscarriage of
justice concerning a number of the leaders and a number of people
in the Soviet Union, and I think the Communist Party in the United
States simply has not been critical enough, has not been objective
enough in evaluating the Soviet Union.
The second point is that I believe that the method of organization
of the Communist Party, mainly that based on democratic centralism,
is not correct or appropriate to an American party. It does contain
within it the essential parts of civil libertarian approach, which I
believe personally to be the cornerstone of any democratic move-
ment in the United States. Based on democratic centralism, it does
not preserve or build on the fundamental basis of American democracy.
Finally, I think the general methods of operation of the Commu-
nist Party have not been sufficiently open in its activities, something
which I have always had disagreement with. And, as I said before,
any activities that I engaged in in the past have been based on this
kind of commitment. Where I felt something was important enough
to take a side on, it was important enough also to openly challenge
and defend, and I do the same thing here.
I would like to add that I think that the approach that men like
Howard Fast and John Gates used is essentially a correct one and
as Howard Fast said, he thought the best thing the Communist Party
could do, following the revelations of the Khrushchev report, was
to dissolve itself. I would say, personally, the best thing this com-
mittee can do to preserve American freedoms is to go to Congress and
dissolve itself, also.
Mr. Doyle. That is the Commie line.
Mr. Arens. It is the same line John Gates followed in executive
session two weeks ago.
Mr. Snitzer. That may well be the case. It is my firm conviction,
and I made it openly.
Mr. Arens. You know you have been identified by a live witness
under oath as a member of tlie Communist Party, have 3'ou not ?
Mr. Snitzer. I have been informed concerning some congressional
testimony.
CO'MMUNIIST ACrriVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2355
Mr. Abens. Could you be truthful enough to tell us whether or
not you know you have been identified as a member of the Communist
Party, under oath ?
Mr. Snitzer. This is not a question of truth. I made that clear
before, Mr. Arens, that I am not going to be tricked into taking a
stand before this committee
Mr. Arens. We are not trying to trick you.
Mr. Snitzer. — speaking about my past, because you have no right
to inquire. You have no right to question into any question concern-
ing where I stand, concerning past political activities or associations.
And I will freely discuss with the press and this committee has no
right to inquire. The only way I can make this committee respect
that right of privacy and association and thought, the only way I can
make the committee respect it, is to exercise my rights under the Con-
stitution.
Mr. Arens. Thank you.
Mr. Snitzer. That is what I propose to do.
Mr. Arens. You know you have been identified under oath by a
live witness before this committee as a person known by him to be
a Communist ? Do you know that ?
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Arens
Mr. Snitzer. Mr. Berlin, is there any way in which I can make clear
that I have no intention of discussing my political associations before
this committee, because I don't believe this committee has any right
to ask
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Kearney, have you any questions, or not ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes. I have a question.
The only question — it isn't a question, it is just an observation. The
only thing I can say to the witness, the witness has kept repeating here
about a conference with the press. Let me
Mr. Snitzer. I have just been informed by my attorney
Mr. Kearney. Just a minute.
Now, you break in, not on my time, but on your own time.
Mr. Snitzer. I am very sorry.
Mr. Kearney. I want to inform the witness if there is a conference
with the press and statements are made when the witness is not under
oath, that the witness will be resubpenaed before the committee to
testify as to those statements.
Mr. Doyle. Now, may I state. Witness, in dismissing you, I noticed,
of course, your positive statement that you agree with the philosophy
of John Gates.
Mr. Snitzer. I said that one aspect of what John Gates said. I
don't know enough about John Gates' attitude to say in complete
agreement.
Mr. D0Y1.E. I understand. You follow his line and the main differ-
ence between him
Mr. Snitzer. That is not the truth. That simply is not true. On
that one question I agree with Jolm Gates that the Communist Party
should have dissolved itself. That is the best thing it could have
done.
2356 COMMUNIST AcnvrriES in the new England area
Mr. Doyle. Aiid his program is to form, if he can, a Com-miinist
Party that is limited to the continental United States, and that is what
you agree with?
Mr. SxiTZER. No ; I do not agree with that, categorically not.
Mr. Doyle. I have one more statement, and then you are dismissed.
I wish to say this, sir : We would not have taken your time, nor ours,
nor the expense involved to any of us, including yourself or your attor-
ney, if we had not had ample sworn testimony before us showing your
activity in the Coimnunist Party.
Now, is that clear? So when you plead your amendment, that is
your constitutional privilege but you do not fool us as to what the
actual facts are.
Mr. Snitzer. You claim that I am a Communist Party member now ?
Mr. Doyle. We have your Communist Party activity in sworn testi-
mony — and plenty of it.
Mr. Snttzee. Do you question that I am not a Communist Party
member now ?
Mr. Doyle. So you had your time to make a speech, and that is all
right. You made it. We have been good sports in allowing you plenty
of time.
You are dismissed.
IVIr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, the next witness, if you please, is Homer
Bates Chase.
Mr. Snitzer. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have marked for
identification
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chase, will you kindly come forward. Remain
standing while the chairman administers the oath to you.
Mr. Berlin. May we have this marked for identification, the state-
ment submitted to your counsel ?
Mr. Arens. Please come forward, INIr. Chase.
Mr. Doyle. We will accept it for identification, but not for print-
ing in the record. You know the rules of the committee.
Mr. Berlin. I appreciate that. I am just asking for this to be
marked for identification.
Mr. Doyle. Yes, of course.
(Document marked "Snitzer Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Arens. Come forward, Mr. Chase, and remain standing while
the chairman administers the oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. Witness, do you solemnly swear you will tell the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Chase. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you. Take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OP HOMER B. CHASE
Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Chase. The name is Homer B. Chase. I live in Washington,
New Hampshire ; and I chop logs for a living, chop lumber.
Mr. Arens. How long have you lived in Washington, New Hamp-
shire ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2357
Mr. Chase. Well, I lived — I was born there and I left home some-
thing around sixteen or seventeen years old. In all about — this is
quite a chore — about 20-25 years.
Mr. Akens. You are appearing today, Mr. Chase, in response to a
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Chase. Well, yes ; I came all day, although — that was the major
reason. My expenses weren't handed to me. I would like to suggest
to the committee that with all this unemployment going on, that we
get our money before we come down here.
Mr. Doyle. The United States Government's credit is good, and in
view of your facetious remarks, I will say, as soon as you are through
testifying you will be paid your fee.
^Ir. Chase. Yes, but there is a question of getting the money. It
is not facetious at all. To an unemployed logger the question of a
trip to Boston is far from being facetious, sir.
Mr. Akens. Mr. Chase, what other activity have you been engaged
in, principal activity, in the last four or five years, besides sawing
wood?
Mr. Chase. Well, I have — four or five years ?
Mr. ilKENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Chase. Besides chopping lumber I worked half a day on the
town road this year. I drive a team a little when I had my own
horses, during the last four or five years.
Mr. Arens. How about the last ten years, what has been your prin-
cipal activity ?
Mr. Chase. My principal activities in the last ten years?
Mr. Aeens. Yes.
Mr. Chase. Well, I'd rather not discuss that period to any degree,
going back that far, ten years.
Mr. Arens. Why not?
^Ir. Chase. Well, I was living in a section of the South at that
time. I am afraid that this committee miglit start asking names,
and, as you know, that might involve names of Negroes and Whites,
and they are not protected down there. Their very lives would be
in danger. I have always been on the side of civil rights, and to
identify people living in certain sections of the South would be, as
I say, contrary, I think, to the — that would be a real case.
Mr. Arens. Were you in the South, Mr. Chase ?
Mr. Chase. Oh, certainly.
Mr. Arens. About what period of time were you in the South?
Mr. Chase. Oh, I have no objection to answering that.
Mr. Arens. Then do it, please.
• Mr. Chase. As far as we won't get into it — I went South. They
sent me into the iVirborne Engineers.
Mr. Arens. You were in the Army, were you, when you went to
the South ?
Mr. Chase. When I went to the South, yes. I was in the Army
Engineers.
Mr. Arens. Was that the first Army experience you ever had,
Mr. Chase?
Mr. Chase. Oh, no.
24777— 58— pt. 3-
2358 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Arexs. What other Army experience have you had prior to
the time the United States Army sent you down there ?
Mr. Chase. I am proud to state I was a member of the International
Brigade in Spain.
Mr. Arens. Which side did you fight on in Spain ?
Mr. Chase. I fought with the legally elected Government of Spain,
the democratic side.
Mr. Arens. Is that the only way you care to describe the group
you fought with in Spain ?
Mr. Chase. Oh, no. If the committee has the time and the patience
I will.
Mr. Arens. We will take the time for a minute or so to have you
explain.
Mr. Chase. I fought with heroes, with people who understood the
dangers of fascism long before the leadership of this Government of
France did, or England. I fought with people who tried to prevent
World War II, who saw the danger of Hitler and Mussolini. And
they took action. They took action. They just didn't talk democ-
racy. You know it is easy to say "democracy."
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chase
Mr. Chase. But to lay your life down on the line like those fellows
did is something else again.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, Mr. Chase.
Mr. Chase. Thank you?— Thank them.
Mr. Arens. Wliat were the names of some of these leaders that you
fought with over in Spain ?
Mr. Chase. Leaders ?
Mr. Arens. Was Steve Nelson one of these heroes you fought with
in Spain in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade ?
Mr. Chase. Now, we are getting into an area
Mr. Arens. No. We want the name of one of these heroes who was
fighting fascism in Spain. You told us that you were fighting with
some great heroes, and I just wanted to know if you can tell us whether
or not Steve Nelson was one of those heroes who was fighting the
Fascists over there in Spain? You just come on and tell us.
Mr. Chase. I would not care to discuss other folks who went to
Spain. If this committee — let me just say this If this committee
was interested or could explain the purpose of such a question
Mr. Arens. You started it, Mr. Chase.
Mr. Chase. So that I could see it has any — to my understanding,
and w^e all have to obey the law as we see it.
Mr. Arens. Why, oi course.
Mr. Chase. Well, if you could tell me what this has to do with this
work of this committee, then I would gladly tell you the name of one
of these.
Mr. Arens. I will tell you in your own words. You know you were
talking about fighting Fascists.
Mr. Chase. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Figliting Hitler and fighting Mussolini. There is an-
other force loose in the world today, Mr. Chase. It is a conspiracy, a
Godless, atheist conspiracy, out to destroy all Christian civilization,
out to destroy all mankind, out to destroy every person who is not part
and parcel of this atheistic, Godless conspiracy.
CX>MMUNEST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2359
The head of it now is a man by the name of Khrushchev. He would
make Hitler and he would make Mussolini look like innocent Sunday
school boys, Mr. Chase.
Now, we would like to to have you tell us who were some of these
heroes you were fighting with in Spain, if that is what you were telling
about. Just name a few of them, and answer first of all the question,
if Steve Nelson was one of those heroes who was fighting the Fascists
in Spain with you,
Mr. Chase. I would like to comment on the preface. The preface
was longer than the question, if I may say so.
First, on this conspiracy. Communist conspiracy we have heard
about all day long here — it has been a long day. I am not used to
sitting around like this,
Mr, Arens, You are a man of action, are you not ?
Mr, Chase, That is right — when I can get work, I hope when you
go back to Washington you will see that the lumber industry picks
up, because that is something within your power,
Mr, Arens, Accordmg to your own words here, you have been
pretty busy, and we are going into that,
Mr, Chase, On this conspiracy business, we have a paper up in
New Hampshire, the Massachusetts Union, and they claim it is a
conspiracy when Eisenhower discusses the Summit Meeting, That
is a Communist conspiracy to Mr, Globe, And we have Herman
Talmadge in Georgia, He says it is a Communist conspiracy against
the South and traditions of the South when the Supreme Court
Mr. Arens, Did you
Mr, Chase, I didn't interrupt you, sir. Could I have the same
courtesy ?
Mr, Arens. You go right ahead. I beg your pardon.
Mr, Chase, Then we have the talk about Communist conspiracy
when some scientists got an original idea. They were Communist
conspirators, and we drove out, to my way of thinking, some of the
best scientists in America, and we hurt this country's scientific effort.
So I don't accept the preface of your question.
Mr. Arens. Do you think Fuchs might have been one of tliese
scientists who was discriminated against in this process, Mr. Chase ?
Mr. Chase, Well, I don't know Fuchs. I don't know all the details
of the Fuchs case, but I do know that this phrase "Communist con-
spiracy" is being overworked,
I am sure if we investigated Channel 5 and how the Boston Herald
got hold of it, it would be a Communist conspiracy. Yes, I really
believe it would be identified by a great many people.
Mr. Arens, You told us, Air. Chase, what is not or w^hat is the
Communist conspiracy in some people's minds. Let us shift over a
little bit, now, in our discussion and see if you can tell us something
about the Communist Party, as distinct from the Communist con-
spiracy, if a distinction is proper. What do you know about the Com-
munist Party ? See if you can help us on that now.
Mr. Chase. Well,
Mr. Arens. Do you know something about it ?
Mr. Chase. I will tell you this way : that I believe in Socialism, I
believe that capitalism is in its dying stage in this country.
2360 cx)MMinsrrsT ACTiYirrES in the new England area
Mr. Akens. We don't want you to be disclosing your beliefs un-
necessarily here, unless you want to open the door, Mr. Chase, to
tell us more of your beliefs.
Mr. Chase. You brought me 100 miles down here. There is snow
three feet deep up in New Hampshire, and you want my advice and
I just have my opinions.
Mr. Arens. You go right ahead.
Mr. Chase. I am going to help you all I can.
Mr. Doyle. You have had a good laugh. Now let us hear the
testimony.
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chase
Mr. Chase. Yes, sir? I was saying-
Mr. Arens. Here, let us get back on the subject.
Mr. Chase. Mr. Chairman, I didn't get a chance to answer that
question. He asked me about the Communist Party and I didn't
answer.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party,
Mr. Chase?
Mr. Chase. That wasn't the original question. The original ques-
tion is the one I can answer.
Mr. Arens. Let's substitute this question for the original ques-
tion, Mr. Chase. It is my job here to do the questioning.
When you went down South, were you in the Communist operation
down there ?
Mr. Chase. Well, you see, I think that this business of actual po-
litical membership in a legal party, and I believe the Communist
Party is a legal party.
Mr. Kearney. You believe what ?
Mr. Chase. The Communist Party is a legal party. It can go on
the ballot in Massachusetts. There is no law to stop it and, frankly,
if the party to which you belong, Mr. Kearney, or you, Mr. Doyle,
and the Communist Part}'', were on the ballot in New Hampshire, as
of now, I would not cast my ballot for the Kepublican Party or the
Democratic Party, in view of their dismal record. I would vote for
the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Yes. Now, tell us whether or not
Mr. Chase. I think their programs correspond to the needs of my
family and the people better than the parties of Mr, Doyle and Mr.
Kearney, although let's hope they improve.
Mr. Kearney. At least we get a true word out of you.
Mr. Arens. When you were down in the Southland, were you a
Communist down there on a Communist mission ?
Mr. Chase. Well, as I have already explained due to the situation
in the South, the lack of law and order there, the violence of things,
Federal troops that we witnessed in Arkansas, Talmadge's threats
against the laws of this country, and threats of sedition, I don't feel
that I could answer questions about political activity in the South
Avithout endangering other people's lives.
Mr. Arens. Let us not endanger anyone. You are not in the South
now, are you ? You are safe up here in the North.
]Mr. Chase. I am not so concerned about my life. I live a good
(lenl and I have lived a rich life and I think I have
Mr. Arens. I promise you, Mr. Chase, I am not going to ask you
about the names
OOMMTINIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2361
Mr. Chase. It is an entirely different situation in Georgia. You
will agree.
Mr. Arens. I am not going to ask you a name of a single person
south of the Mason-Dixon line. I am just going to ask you about your-
self, and you are up here safe in the North.
Tell us when you were down South, now that you are back up North,
tell us : Were you down there on a mission of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Chase. Well, I don't see how, with all due respect to your legal
knowledge, for what that can get into a
Mr. Arens. I do not want to get anyone in trouble, Mr. Chase.
Mr. Chase. It isn't as if this is the last hearing of the committee,
whether you adopt the suggestion of the previous witness or not^ I
have no way of knowing.
Mr. Arens. You would endorse that suggestion, would you, Mr.
Chase?
Mr. Chase. Well— what is that?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chase, I want to display to you now a photostatic
reproduction of a publication. It is a publication that has apparently
been telling on people. In the lingo of certain organizations, this
might be called a stool pigeon, because this publication is the Com-
munist Daily Worker of Tuesday, May 16, 1950. I see in this Com-
munist Daily Worker of New York, Tuesday, May 16, 1950, one
Homer B, Chase, identified here as State Chairman of the Communist
Party.
Was this publication, the Communist Daily Worker of May 16,
1950, in error, when it identified you as a member of the Communist
Party from Atlanta?
Mr. Chase. Well, I don't say that it was either wrong or right. I
already tried to indicate that I do not care to discuss that aspect of
my work, and I think I have tried to make clear the reasons given.
(Document marked "Homer B. Chase Exhibit No. 1" and retained
in committee files.)
Mr. Arens. I think we do understand, Mr. Chase.
Do you know a person by the name of Mrs. Carol Foster?
Mr. Chase. Well, know her ? I think I have seen her. I will qual-
ify that. But I think I have seen her before today.
Mr. Arens. "Where did you see her, do you recall ?
Mr. Chase. I believe I first saw her — now, this is several years ago,
when I was haying down in Winton. _
Mr. Arens. What?
Mr. Chase. Haying — "making hay while the sun shines."
Mr. Kearney. You are not any relation to the previous witness,
are you?
Mr. Chase. Well, I don't see what that question, sir — I don't un-
derstand the reason for it.
Mr. Kearney. I was going to say the reason for it is that it seems
you are scratched by the same needle, both of you.
Mr. Chase. Well, all I said. Congressman Kearney, was that — and
he asked me the question — he asked me a simple question and I gave
him a simple answer. I thought I saw the woman before.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chase, answer this direct question, without equivo-
cation, if you please, sir :
Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
2362 OOMMTINrST activities IX THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Chase. Well, I am going to follow the lead of Congress, as I
read in this morning's Globe. It says that Congress is taking the fifth
amendment, Koscoe Drnmmond's column on the editorial page, and
I am going to follow you gentlemen's lead. I am going to refuse to
answer that on the basis of the Bill of Rights.
Mr. Aeens. Mr. Chairman, we have no further questions of this
witness.
Mr. Doyle. I think the gentleman's declaration that if he had a
chance to vote for the Communist Party in his own state he would do
it, is sufficient answer.
Are there any questions. General ?
Mr. Kearney. No. It has been very amusing.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much for coming 100 miles. We en-
joyed your entertainment.
Mr. Chase. Yes, sir. There is one more question I have: Where
do I get this money ?
Mr. Kearney. Do you want it in confederate money ?
Mr. Chase. No, that is the last thing I will take it in. I will take
the thing before inflation lowers the value of it too much.
Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be
Mr. George Sheldrick.
Kindly come forward, Mr. Sheldrick.
Mr. Doyle. I would appreciate it if you folks who are leaving
the room, would hasten.
Will the witness please be sworn ?
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Sheldrick. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Please take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OF GEOEGE SHELDRICK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
MARY M. KAUFMAN
Mr. Arens. Mr. Marshal, could we supply some water here for the
witness, please ?
Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation.
Mr. Sheldrick. My name is George Sheldrick, I live m Paterson,
New Jersey. My occupation is a lithographer.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities ?
Mr. Sheldrick. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Sheldrick. I am.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Miss Kaufman. Mary M. Kaufman of New York City.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sheldrick, for the purpose of identification, have
you ever used or gone under any name otlier than the name of
George Sheldrick?
Mr. Sheldrick. I decline to answer that question under the rights
accorded me under the first amendment and the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You have used the name "Jack" in the Communist con-
spiracy, over some period of time, have you not ?
COMlVrUlSniST ACnVIT'IES est the new ENGLAND AREA 2363
Mr. Sheldrick. I decline to answer for the previous reasons given.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Jack Davis.
Mr. Sheldrick. I decline to answer that under the previous reason.
Mr. Arens. Under date of April 8, 1954, Jack Davis testified before
this committee that he, Davis, knew you, Sheldrick, as a member of
the Communist Party and as a Communist Party organizer in the
then Albany District. Was he in error in his testimony ?
Mr. Sheldrick. I again decline to answer the question on the basis
of the previous answer.
Mr. Arens. Now, I should like to display to you a copy of the Com-
munist Daily Worker of New York, Friday, June 11, 1948. This is
the Communist Daily Worker. The article reads :
Syracuse CP Gets Radio Time to Blast Sluks
Syracuse, June 10. Free radio time has been granted to the County Committee
of Onondaga Communists over WSYR on Sunday, June 13 from 1 : 16 to 1 : 30
p. m. (DST) to answer slurs made against Communist Leader William Z. Foster.
George Sheldrick, Chairman of the Onondaga County CP will answer falsifica-
tions —
and so forth.
Kindly look at that article, please, sir, as I display it to you and
tell this committee whether or not the facts recited in this article, to
the best of your knowledge and information, are correct.
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Sheldrick. Again, under the first and fifth amendments, I de-
cline to answer that question.
Miss Kaufman. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that the witness not be
photographed while he is giving testimony ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes, of course. The committee fully agrees, as you
know, with the freedom of the press, and we will always help to protect
it. But where a witness does ask he not be photographed during the
time of his testimony we ask your full cooperation, not to do it, please.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this particu-
lar exhibit which I have just displayed to the witness be appropriately
marked and incorporated by reference in the record according to its
introduction.
Mr. Doyle. It shall be so marked and so incorporated.
(Document marked "Sheldrick Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sheldrick, do you know a person by the name of
Armando Penha ?
Mr. Sheldrick. I am going again to decline to answer that question,
on the basis of the previous reasons given.
Mr. Arens. In the last day or so, Mr. Penha testified that while he
was an undercover agent in the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
specifically in 1955, he knew you, George Sheldrick, as a member of the
National Textile Commission of the Communist conspiracy in this
country.
Was Mr. Penha telling the truth or was he in error ?
Mr. Sheldrick. I can speak for myself only. I am saying again
that I decline to answer that on the basis of the first and fifth amend-
ments.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
2364 oojMMuisnsT AcnvrriES m the new England area
Mr. Sheldrick. I decline to answer that question also on the first
and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the National Textile Com-
mission of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Sheldrick. I decline to answer that question for the previous
reasons given.
Mr. Arexs. What is your postal address, Mr. Sheldrick ?
Mr. Sheldrick. Didn't I give that in my
Mr. Arens. Please accommodate us by repeating it, if you did.
Mr. Sheldrick. Oh, that was true — it is not on the subpena. 201
Governor Street, in Paterson, N. J.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will con-
clude the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. General Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. I have no questions.
The witness is dismissed, and thank you.
The committee will stand in recess for five minutes.
^ Brief recess.)
(Committee members present: Representatives Doyle and Kear-
ney.)
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please reconvene.
Let the record show that General Kearney, of New York, and
Doyle, of California, are both present. Therefore a legal quorum of
the subcommittee of three is present.
Are you ready, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Call your next witness.
Mr. Arens. Anthony DiBiase, please come forward.
Mr. Doyle. Hurry, gentlemfen, with your pictures so the witness
can be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I do.
Mr. DoYLE. Have the witness chair, please.
TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY DiBIASE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JOSEPH J. DALLIEO
Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. DiBiASE. I am Anthony DiBiase, I am a student at the Uni-
versity of Rhode Island. I live at 8 Ardmore Street, Nausauket,
Rhode Island.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities?
Mr. DiBiASE. I am.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I am.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Mr. Dalltro. Joseph J. Dalliro, with office at 25 Fenimore oquare,
Boston.
COMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2365
I would like, Mr. Chairman, to state for the record that my represen-
tation of this witness is by assignment of the Boston Bar Association.
Mr. Doyle. We appreciate your being here, and we compliment you
on coming at the request of the Boston Bar Association. Will you
please convey our appreciation to the Boston Bar Association?
Mr. Dalliro. I certainly will.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been a student in the school there ?
Mr. DiBiASE. Since last September.
Mr. Arens. And how old are you ?
Mr.DiBiASE. 21.
Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the
Communist Partj?^ ?
jNIr. DiBiASE. I will invoke my privileges granted me under the first
and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Are you presently a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. DiBiASE. No ; I am not.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at
any time in the course of the last five years ?
Mr. DiBiase. I will invoke my privileges on that.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at
any time in the course of the last year ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I will also invoke my privileges, granted me under the
first and fifth amendments on that question also.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party since
you received your subpena to appear before this committee ?
Mr. DiBiASE. No, I liave not been.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at any
time in the course of the last six months ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I have not been a member of the Communist Party
during that time.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at any
time during the course of the last eight months ?
Mr. DiBiASE. It is going to be a matter of variability, and I will
refuse to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you definitely, finally, and irrevocably disassociated
from the Communist Party ?
Mr. DiBiASE. Would you please repeat that question ?
Mr. Arens. Are you definitely, finally, and irrevocably disassociated
from the Conmiunist Party ?
Mr. DiBiASE. Yes, I am.
Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I will invoke my privileges as granted to me under the
first amendment, which guarantees my right to free association, and
also the fifth amendment which guarantees me the right against self-
incrimination.
Mr. Arens. Are you "on ice" ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I don't know what you mean by that.
Mr. Arens. Are you "a sleeper" ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I still do not realize the full implication of what you
say.
Mr. Arens. Are you under Communist Party discipline though not
a technical member of the Communist Party ?
2366 OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. DiBiASE. Would you say that again ? I am entirely unexperi-
enced in these matters and I would like to get things straight before,
you know
Mr. Arens. In the Communist Party, do you know what they mean
in Communist Party lingo by the term ''on ice" ?
(The witness confers with his counsel) .
Mr. DiBiASE. Well, I can yes. But how do you mean it? I
know well, what it can infer, but I mean I would like it spelled
out for me.
Mr. Arens. How do you know that ?
Mr. DiBiASE. I think if you ask anyone, I think if you ask anyone
in this courtroom
Mr. Arens. Have you at any time learned in Communist Party ac-
tivities the meaning of the term "on ice" or "a sleeper" ?
Mr. DiBiASE. No.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Armando Penha ?
Mr. DiBiASE. Wait a minute.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Armando Penha ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. DiBiASE. I will invoke my privileges.
Mr. Arens. Armando Penha testified before this committee that
while he was an undercover agent serving his Government in the Com-
munist Party, he knew you as a Communist ; he knew you as a colonizer.
He knew you as a section committee member of the Communist Party
in Providence, Rhode Island.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. DiBiASE. I will invoke my privileges on that question.
Mr. Arens. What is your father's name ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. DiBiASE. His name is Antonio DiBiase.
Mr. Arens. Where is he employed ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. DiBiASE. I will invoke the first and fifth amendments on that
question, because I don't see where it is relevant to this investigation.
Mr. Arens. I will be glad to explain the relevancy to you, sir. It is
for the purpose of identification.
Mr. DiBiASE. This is just exposing my father's job, which may be
placed in jeopardy by announcing this.
Mr. Arens. It is solely and exclusively for the purpose of identifi-
cation.
We have no further questions of this witness at this time Mr. Chair-
man.
Mr. Doyle. Have you any questions, General ?
Mr. Kearney. No.
Mr. Doyle. May I just make this one remark, young man, to you :
Are you of voting age, yet ?
Mr. DiBase. I am of voting age. I turned last May 21, and I
shall vote in the next election.
Mr. Doyle. Why don't you get yourself and keep yourself in
shape as a young American citizen, where you don't have to plead
your constitutional privilege on the grounds that it might incriminate
you ? Why don't you clean up whatever it is, in recent back history,
so that you can be crystal clear and don't have to exercise your con-
COMMUNIIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2367
stitutional privilege, on the grounds that it might form a chain to
incriminate you ? Why don't you do that ?
This country has honored you by giving you birth. Why in the
dickens do you get into an atmosphere of personal conduct, whatever
it may be, where you have to refuse to help your own Congress, be-
cause it is your Congress, where you have to refuse to help your Con-
gress to work out whatever is just and fair in the field of legislation
involving the cold war we are in with Soviet communism ?
I suggest if you do it, you will feel a whole lot better inside.
Some of us have boys who gave their lives that you might have
a chance to be foursquare an American citizen ? Why don't you do it?
I don't mean to insult you. I don't mean to criticize you; I just
mean, as one American man to another, my suggestion is that you will
feel a whole lot better inside.
Thank you very much. You are excused.
Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be
Mr. Douglas Perry.
Kindly come forward.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Perry, will you please raise your right hand and be
sworn ?
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Perry. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Take the witness stand.
TESTIMONY OF DOUGLAS NEIL PERRY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ALLAN R. ROSENBERG
Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation.
Mr. Perry. Douglas Perry, 289 Bolton Street, New Bedford,
Mass. I am a trade union organizer for the United Electrical,
Radio, and Machine Workers of America, U. E.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities ?
Mr. Perry. Yes.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Perry. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself.
Mr. EosENBERG. Allan E. Eosenberg, 209 Washington Street,
Boston.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Perry, kindly tell us any other name you have
gone under, other than the name Douglas Perry.
Mr. Perry. My legal name is Douglas N. Perry, and I have gone
under no other name to the best of my knowledge, other than nick-
names that I may have been called.
Mr. Arens. Were you born under the name of Douglas Perry ?
Mr. Perry. I wasn't named until after I was born, Mr. Counsel.
But my legal name, as I stated and is on my birth certificate, is Douglas
Neil Perry.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been engaged as a field organizer
forUE?
Mr. Perry. Approximately 10 years.
2368 coMMinsrasT activities in the new England area
Mr. Arens. What was your job immediately prior to your present
job?
Mr. Perry. I was a business agent of a local union of this same
organization.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been engaged in the New England
area ?
Mr. Perry. In my capacity as a trade union organizer ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Perry. For the same period.
Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education, please, sir.
Mr. Perry. I went to grade school in Kockland, Maine; went to
college at Oberlin College in Ohio, where I received a bachelor of arts
degree in economics.
Mr. Arens. In what plants do you organize ?
Mr. Perry. I don't understand the question. Do you mean what
plants do I represent — that I have anything to do with ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir,
Mr. Perry, I represent the plants in this union in the southeastern
Massachusetts and Rhode Island area.
Mr. Arens. What plants there ?
Mr. Perry. Do you want me to name them, sir ?
Mr. Arens. Yes. "Wliat industrial establishments ?
]Mr, Perry. The Morse Twist Drill and JMachine Company.
Mr. Arens. Would you tell us, does that organization have any
defense contracts ?
Mr. Perry. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Arens, How many employees are there ?
Mr, Perry. There have been quite a number of layoffs, sir. I would
say there are less than a thousand at this time.
Mr. Arens. Another company ?
Mr. Perry, Eastern Electric, Incorporated.
Mr, Arens. Do they have any defense contracts ?
Mr, Perry. Not that I know of, sir.
Mr. Arens, Another company ?
Mr. Perry. Ace Cabinet Corporation.
Mr. Arens, Is that all ?
Mr. Perry. No, there are others.
My. Arens, Ki ndly give us the others, if you please, sir,
Mr, Perry, Paragon Gear Works, New Process Twist Drill,
Standard Nut and Bolt Company, Royal Brand Cutlery Company,
Mr. Arens. And how many employees in toto would you say are
represented ?
Mr,PERRY. I would say around 1,500, It would vary, of course,
with business conditions.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. AVhy?
Mr. Perry, On the grounds of the first amendment and fifth amend-
ment, that I don't think it is pertinent to this inquiry, that I think the
congressional resolve setting up this committee is unconstitutionally
vague. I think that this committee is engaged in exposure for ex-
posure's sake and for other reasons.
Mr, Arens, Have you ever discussed with the members of UE
whether or not you are a Communist ?
COMMUNIIST ACTlVrriES EST THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2369
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Is UE Communist controlled ?
Mr. Perry. No, it is not, sir. In my opinion it is not.
Mr. Arens. Are there persons in official capacity in UE, officers,
international representatives, and the like, who to your certain knowl-
edge are Communists ?
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arexs. I should like to display to you now a little bulletin,
UE News Bulletin :
Another Smear Operation
The infamous House Un-American Committee has subpeuaed a large group
of people, several of whom are UE people, including myself, to appear before
another one of their witch-hunt "investigations" this weelv in Boston.
This will undoubtedly be a repeat publicity performance and a rehash of all
the outdated lies and smear attempts of the old McCarthyism days. It seems like
more than a coincidence that these hearings are called in the midst of an lUE-
CIO election raid against UB.
Then it goes on for the balance of the page, winding up :
I intend, as always, to defend this Union as the most democratic union in
America. Our Union is not, and cannot, be "Communist controlled." Only the
members themselves run and control this Union. Any accusation to the con-
trary by this Committee or by anyone else is a lie !
signed Douglas Perry, UE Field Organizer, dated March 18, 1958.
Did you prepare that leaflet, please, sir?
(A document was handed to the witness.)
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Perry. Yes, I prepared this leaflet.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this leaflet
be appropriately marked and incorporated by reference into the
record.
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and incorporated.
(Document marked "Perry Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Arens. If a labor organization is controlled by the Communist
Party, Mr. Perry, it could not be a democratic union within the pur-
view of the normally accepted meaning of that word, could it ?
Mr. Perry. Well, I think if a union were a Communist-controlled
union, it w^ouldn't be recognized by the National Labor Relations
Board. It would not be able to function as such or to negotiate con-
tracts in certified plants or have elections or to operate in other ways
that a union is entitled to operate otherwise
Mr. Arens. Now please answer
Mr. Perry. — and the officers of this union, to tlie best of my under-
standing, have signed non-Communist affidavits, and I have no reason
to question them, and for that reason I believe that this union is not
Communist dominated.
Mr. Arens. Have you signed a non-Communist affidavit ?
Mr. Perry. No, sir. The staff members of unions are not required
to do so.
Mr. Arens. You talked about the officers signing a non-Communist
affidavit, apparently trying to leave the clear implication that they are
not Communists. Are there any officers of UE who to your certain
knowledge are now Communists ?
Mr. Perry. No, sir.
2370 COMMUNIST ACTIVTTIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Akens. Are you a Communist?
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer on the same grounds as previously
stated.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Ma ties ?
Mr. Perry. Is that a man, sir ?
Mr. Arens. James J. Matles ?
Mr. Perry. James J. Matles. Yes, sir. He is the director of organi-
zation of this union.
Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not he is, or has been, a
Communist ?
Mr. Perry. I have no knowledge to that effect.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Armando Penha?
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer on the grounds of the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. Arens. Armando Penha testified here before this committee that
the overwhelming majority of the people, the workers in UE, the rank
and file workers, I believe he said over 90 percent — it was a very sub-
stantial majority — are very definitely non-Communist, or anti-Com-
munist, but there are Communists in UE, including yourself. And he
took an oath and said he knew you as a Communist. "V^Hiy don't you
now while you are under oath and subject to the pains and penalties
of perjury stand up there and say, "Of course, I am not a Communist" ?
Mr. Perry. Are you suggesting that, sir ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, I am, sir.
Mr. Perry. I respectiully decline your suggestion. This gentle-
man, Mr. Penha, has stated a number of things that I don't feel are
true.
Mr, Arens. Was he truthful when he said he knew you as a Com-
munist, was he truthful ?
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. He said he knew that you furnished funds for the ex-
penses of Communist Party activities in this area taken from the
pockets of these workers in UE.
Mr. Perry. And he committed perjury, and he lied when he said
that, if that is what he said. At no time did I charge to this union
any money, to my knowledge, that ever went to the Communist Party.
And I want to make that clear.
Mr. Arens. Do you want to go further and deny that you are a
Communist or have been a Communist?
Mr. Perry. That is an entirely unrelated question.
Mr. Arens. Have you distributed
Mr. Perry. Do you want to talk about the dues of this union, how
they are accounted for to our members, how the money is received,
how it is spent ?
Mr. Arens. Are you paid a salary?
Mr. Perry. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Then answer this question: Is there a person on the
payroll of UE who is a Communist, who, to your certain knowledge,
is takinsf money from the workers ?
Mr. Perry. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Don't you get a salary from the UE ?
Mr. Perry. Of course I do.
Mr. Arens. Doesn't that salary come from the pockets of the
workers ?
OOMMTOOST ACTIVITTES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2371
Mr. Perry. It comes from the same source as anybody else's salary
in this union.
Mr. Arens. Aren't you a Communist ?
Mr. Perry, Mr. Arens, you are not going to trick me into any such
questions. You know my answer to that. You asked me two or three
times already, and you have had your answer. And you get it again
if you ask it again.
Mr. Arens. Excuse me. Mr. Penha said that you were also active
in the underground operation in and around New Bedford, and you
were in contact with the underground in the New Bedford area.
Was he in error about that ?
Mr. Perry. I don't know exactly what he means by that. But I
will decline to answer it in any event.
Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer it.
Mr. Arens. Why ?
Mr. Perry. The first and fifth.
Mr. Doyle. Could I have that statement repeated, please?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Reporter, would you kindly read that statement ?
(The record was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Arens, Have you ever announced to your members whether
or not you are a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Perry. What I discuss with the membership of my union I
think is none of the business of this committee, and is my concern and
the concern of our members, and I don't think it is pertinent, either.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest, in view of the
reasons given by this particular witness for refusing to answer the
question, that he now be ordered and directed to answer the question,
as to whether or not he has discussed with the membership of UE
the question of whether or not he is a member of the Communist
conspiracy.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. I will wait until they get through with the conference
between the witness and attorney.
Yes, Witness, I believe it is pertinent and instruct you to answer
this question.
Mr. Perry. My answer is the same, sir, under all the reasons I
previously gave.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, kindly come forward and stand right here,
would you, please ?
Mr. Penha. Right here, sir ?
Mr, Arens. Stand right over here, please. You are under oath,
are you not ?
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.
TESTIMONY OF ARMANDO PENHA— Resumed
Mr. Arens. While you are under oath, before God and this com-
mittee, tell us : Do you see in the hearing room now a person who was
known by you to be a member of the Communist conspiracy, and on
the Section Committee of New Bedford of the Communist Party?
Mr. Penha. I believe I see more than one, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you see one sitting at the witness table?
Mr. Penha. I certainly do, sir.
2372 ooMArtiNriST AcnvrriES m the new England area
Mr. Arens. Who is he, and point him out to this committee.
Mr. Penh A. (Complying) Douglas Perry.
TESTIMONY OF DOUGLAS NEIL PEERY— Resumed
Mr. Aeens. Mr. Perry, please look this man in the face, so there
will be no faceless informer proposition when you return to your
membership for your speech that is not under oath, and tell this
committee, was this man here, this former agent of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation, in this conspiracy, lying, or was he telling the truth
just now ?
Mr. Perry. Are you asking me a question or telling me something ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this witness
now be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. I think you understood his question, didn't you?
Mr. Perry. I am sorry. Seriously, I didn't know if he was lectur-
ing me or asking me a question. 1 am sorry. If he would kindly
repeat it, I will attempt to answer it. Could you ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Reporter, would you kindly read the question back
to the witness ?
(The record was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Perry. Before I answer that question now, I would like to ask
the committee's permission to cross-examine this witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I resj)ectfully suggest the witness now
be ordered and directed and admonished to answer the question pre-
viously asked.
Mr. Perry. I beg your pardon.
Mr. Doyle. It is manifestly a pertinent question. I direct you to
answer.
Mr. Perry. Do I have the right to cross-examine this witness or
don't I?
Mr. Doyle. We will determine that later. You answer the question.
Mr. Perry. I decline to answer it on the grounds as previously
stated,
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, we have no further questions of this
witness at this time.
Mr. Doyle, General Kearney?
Mr. Perry. Do I have the right to cross-examine this witness, or do
I not? I am requesting that right. I have a lot of questions to ask
this man. I think he told a few lies under oath.
I pointed out one of them, and I am prepared to point out some
of the others, if I am given the opportunity. I would like to go back
to my local union and report on this situation, and I think my mem-
bers will back me up, because they know Mr. Armando Penlia from
their own experience.
Mr. Kearney. If you want to make a speech, go out in the hall.
Mr, Doyle. You are making a fine grandstand play in view of tliis.
Of course, if you notified our counsel, or if your lawyer had notified
us, that you wanted an opportunity to cross-examine, we might have
arranged it. Do you see ?
Mr. Perry. I might have, if I know you were going to pull this
grandstand play by confronting liim.
Mr. Doyle, You apparently knew it, because your filthy bulletin
liere showed you expected surprise witnesses. You gave your mem-
CJQMMUNIST ACTIVrTIES m THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2373
bers notice that we would pull some surprise witnesses, right here, in
your own paper, right here in your own language.
Mr. Perry. So 1 think I am entitled to expect a right to cross-ex-
amine this so-called surprise witness, star witness, cowitnesses, and co-
stars.
Mr. Doyle. Have you an^ questions, General Kearney?
Mr. I{j:arney. I suggest if the witness wants to make a speech he
go out in the hall.
Mr. Perry. I suggest that I have sat here and heard these Con-
gressmen and counselors make speeches, and whenever a witness had
an answer that lasted more than fifteen or thirty seconds, it seemed
that it was speechmaking.
I think this committee does not afford its witnesses an adequate op-
portunity to state their position and answer their questions, and I
don't think you intend to, and I don't think you are here for that
purpose.
Mr. Arens. You don't like this committee, do you?
Mr. Perry. I certainly don't, and I am not afraid to tell you why.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Perry?
Mr. Perry. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. May I just say a word or two to you ? I can't help but
as an incumbent Congressman, who is always endorsed by organized
labor in California — and I am proud of it — except the Communist
controlled unions, if there are such, or the Communist members in
such, I cannot help but resist and resent your malicious false state-
ments, in this sheet, that you have entitled "Another Smear Opera-
tion." _
I think my record in Congress for these twelve years, as far as voting
is concerned, establishes that I have not, and never have had, any in-
tention of victimizing organized labor or any member in it. How-
ever, I have had the intention, and still have the intention, of trying
to help organized labor.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Will you listen to me just a minute, or
do you want to consult with your lawyer ? I will wait until you get
through.
Mr. Perry. I am sorry, sir. I was listening.
Mr. Doyle. I do intend to continue to try to help organized labor
to clean up the filthy part of the unions, which in part is controlled or
infiltrated by identified Communists.
No;w, you have made charges in here that are absolutely false, as
far as this committee is concerned, when it comes to your alleging
in this bulletin to your members that we intend to victimize any per-
son or any union, UE included. But we would not have called you
here, manifestly, to put you to the expense and trouble of hiring dis-
tinguished counsel, and so forth, nor would we have come here and
called you if we did not think we had reliable, sworn testimony, iden-
tifying you as a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Perry. Apparently, sir, if I may say, you must believe Mr.
Penha and not me.
Mr. Doyle. We do believe him.
Mr. Perry. So I don't think I stand much of a chance in front of
this cormnittee. The cards are pretty well stacked.
24777— 58— pt. 3 7
2374 OOMMUNTIIST ACmVITIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Kearney. You did not answer. You declined to answer.
Mr. Doyle. Wait a minute. Mr. Perry, we did believe liim or else
we would not have called you.
Mr. Perry. That is right.
Mr. Doyle. There is no question about that.
Mr. Perry. That is right.
Mr. Doyle. That is one reason we called you.
Mr. Perry. It certainly is
Mr. Doyle. Be frank and answer my question : Of course, you have
the chance also, very simply, to deny or affirm whether or not
Mr. Perry. But not the right to cross-examine your witness ; is that
right?
Mr. Doyle. Well, it is not a matter of cross-examination. It is a
matter of "Yes" or "No," whether or not you are a member of the
party.
Mr. Perry. Very simple.
Mr. Doyle. Very simple, for you to tell the truth, whatever the
truth is.
And one thing more, and you know as well as I do, without me re-
minding you of it, because you have been in organized labor a long
time, and you are a very well-informed gentleman — I happen to know
that
Mr. Perry. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Doyle. In the field of organized labor. But you know as
well as I do that the pattern throughout the United States in organ-
ized labor is this: that the Communist Party tries to infiltrate the
control of organized labor, CIO-AFL, UE Machinists. The record
shows. The known record shows it does. That is their policy.
Mr. Perry. Well
Mr. Doyle. It is to try to use American organized labor for their
own filthy motives and principles.
Now this committee in this hearing is engaged, when we called you
and others, to fuid whether or not UE, your local, or your State or-
ganization, was in any way infiltrated by Communists.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Because the record shows that whenever
a union is infiltrated enough by Communists, they project and per-
petuate the Communist Party principles instead of American organ-
ized labor principles, because they are not consistent with each other.
Now that is one reason we called you and we believe it is pertinent
because we are engaged in the study of possible legislation that will
make it as difficult as possible for Communists to infiltrate and take
control of American organized labor.
I have one more statement. You know, of course, when it is proven
that a union is dominated by Communists it can't function before
the National Labor Relations Board.
Mr. Perry. You are not saying that has been proven in the case
of UE, are you, sir?
INIr. Doyle. I am not saying it is. I am not charging it. I want
to be more fair than you are in this bulletin. You did not know what
you were talking about in this sheet.
Mr. Perry. Your opinion, sir.
Mr. Doyle. In many ways. That is my opinion.
Mr. Perry. You are entitled to it, sir.
OOMMUNIST ACTIVITTE'S IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2375
Mr. Doyle. It makes a good appeal to your members, but it is not
the truth.
I also know, and so do you, I believe, that there have been in the
United States local unions and other unions which have been domi-
nated and were dominated by communism at the time, and their officers
swore false affidavits or they got out of the officership in order that
they wouldn't have to swear any false affidavits before the National
Labor Relations Board.
Mr. Perry. I don't think that is the case in my union, sir ; not to
my knowledge, or with any locals I have anything to do with, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I am not saying it is. I am saying if you have 1,000
members in your union at present
Mr. Perry. And they are proud to be members; I assure you.
Mr. Doyle. What?
Mr. Perry. They are proud of the fact that they are members of
this union.
Mr. Doyle. There is no doubt your union does a lot of good.
Mr. PEiiRY. Because they run this union themselves.
Mr. Doyle. All right. And no doubt your union has done a lot of
good for the rank and file.
Mr. Perry. Certainly — they certainly have. It has tripled the
wages.
Mr. Doyle. But you can't tell me, Mr. Organizer, you cannot tell
me you have 1,000 members in your union and you don't know a single
one of them to be a Communist.
Mr. Perry. I don't think I said that.
Mr. Doyle. The counsel asked whether or not you knew of any
Communists in your union.
Mr. Perry. We have such a democratic union.
Mr. Doyle. I understand.
Mr. Perry. We don't worry about Fascists, Communists, Republi-
cans, Democrats, or what-have-you.
These members themselves, by majority decision and full under-
standing and information, make their own decisions, and know what
to do in their own interests, sir, and
Mr. Doyle. And of course, if you take the position your union
members can be Communists, as far as you are concerned, then I
understand more of your answers.
Mr. Perry. Sir, the people who become members of our union are
hired by the employers. Once they are hired by the employers they
are eligible for membership in our union. We don't screen them ; we
don't put them through loyalty tests.
Mr. KEARiSTEY. That is right.
Mr. Perry. If they wish to join our union and comport themselves
in their own interest and the rest of the union they are welcome, and
requested to do so.
Mr. Kearivtey. May I ask a question ?
Is James Mathis
Mr. Perry. Matles, sir.
Mr. Kearistey. — one of your officials ?
Mr. Perry. Yes, sir ; he is the director of organization of the United
Electrical Union.
Mr. Kearney. Is Matles under indictment in the Federal Court in
Brooklyn ?
2376 OOMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
(The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Perry. My attorney informs me "No." I don't have any per-
sonal knowledge of it.
Mr. Kearney. Was it dismissed?
Mr. Perry. Pardon ? My attorney informs me that he is not under
indictment in the Federal Court. Do you want to discuss it with
ni}'^ attorney ? I think he is more qualified to do so.
Mr. Kearney. That is what I just asked him. Is it dismissed?
Mr. Rosenberg. My. Kearney, Mr. Matles was indicted by Grand
Jury in the District of Columbia in Washington, D. C. several years
ago and was acquitted. The indictment was for violation of the con-
tempt section which is applicable to this committee.
Mr. Kearney. That is not the indictment I referred to.
Mr. Rosenberg. There is no other indictment.
Mr. Kearney. Maybe you are mistaken. The indictment I refer to
was an indictment, as I understand it, charging James Matles, and it
is for revocation of his citizenshij).
Mr. Rosenberg. That is no indictment, sir. I understand there is a
civil proceeding against him.
Mr. Kearney. But there is a civil proceeding ? There is a proceed-
ing against him ?
Mr. Rosenberg. There is a proceeding against him, which is some —
I don't know at what stage it is at present.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know Matles' correct name ?
Mr. Rosenberg. As far as I know it is James J. Matles.
Mr. KJEARNEY. Well, I think you'd better investigate that, because
it isn't.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Perry.
Mr. Perry. I hope you come to New Bedford and visit at our union
office. We invite you, at our union meetings, and perhaps you would
be interested to know how our union operates. They are democratic
in the American fashion, sir, and I am proud of it.
Mr. D0Y1.E. Well, I still repeat that I never heard of a union of a
thousand members in which there were not several handfuls of Com-
munists, and I never heard of an industrial organizer, until today, of
a local union of 1,000 members who did not know a single Communist
in the union.
Now, you have the perfect roost so far as communism is concerned,
to ferret it out.
Mr. Perry. Apparently you see Communists under every bed, sir,
and local unions.
Mr. Doyle. I don't
Mr. Arens. You look in the mirror tonight and then get up to-
morrow morning and tell your members while you are under oath
whether or not the man you saw in the mirror was a member of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Perry. I will tell my members plenty of this committee, sir,
and about the lies of this person by the name of Penha, and I will tell
my members that this committee refused to permit me to cross-examine
him.
Mr. Arens. Will you tell your members whether or not Penha was
lying when he swore here fifteen minutes ago that he knew you as a
member of the Communist conspiracy? Will you tell them that
was a lie?
COMMUNllST ACTIVrnES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2377
Mr. Perky. I will tell m^' members exactly what I choose to tell
them, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you want to make that announcement now while
you are under oath, so that the world can know what your position
is — while you are under oath, and subject to the pains and penalties
of perjury?
Mr. Perry. What goes on in my union is not the concern of the rest
of the world, sir.
Mr. Arexs. No, I am not talking about what goes on in your union.
I am talking about whether you are now a member of the Commmiist
conspiracy, as identified here by a live witness, under oath
jMr. Perry. That is the fourth time you asked me.
Mr. Arens. — before this coimnittee.
Mr. Perky. I think that is the fourth time I answered your ques-
tion, and I think the answer is clear.
Mr. Arens. I want to make it clear for the record.
!Mr. Perry. I think the answer is clear and I don't think there is
any necessity to answer again.
Mr. Arens. I want to make sure that it is abundantly clear.
Mr. Doyle. The witness is excused.
. Mr. Arens. The next witness, please, Mr. Chairman, will be Jerry
Olnch.
Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad-
ministers the oath to you, Mr. Olrich.
Mr, Doyle. Witness, please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Olrich. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Take the witness chair, please.
TESTIMONY OF JERRY OLRICH/ ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
WILLIAM P. HOMANS, JR.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. HoMANs. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, I have a deaf ear on my
right side and I will move to the other side of the witness.
Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. Olrich. My name is Jerry Olrich. I live at 8 Dennison Street,
Jamaica Plain, and I am a tool and die maker.
Mr. Arens. Wliere are you employed, please, sir ?
Mr. Olrich. Mr. Chairman, I seriously would like to decline to
answer that question for the following reasons :
As you know, business is quite poor, small businessmen — my em-
ployer is a small businessman who employs about fifteen men. He is
having tough times, and without consulting him on whether he will
remain, the company or not, I feel it is fair play not to create any
notoriety for his company. He may lose his business, and I don't
think it is really absolutely essential that this committee know the
name of that company. It is a job shop. They just do odd jobs. It
has nothing to do with national defense or anything like that, and I
1 Voucher for witness fee signed "Jerome Olrich."
2378 COMMUNIST ACTrVmES ESf THE NEW ENGIAND AREIA.
don't want to have to use the constitutional privilege because it is
certainly not incriminating, but it is only in the sense of fair play,
in keeping my employer's name out of the newspapers. If you please,
I would like to be permitted not to answer that question.
Mr. Doyle. Be as helpful as you can, Mr. Arens. We always do.
Mr. Arens. ^^^lere do 3- ou live ?
Mr. Olrich. I live at 8 Dennison Street, Jamaica Plain, Ward 11.
Mr. Arens, Have you ever lived at Roxbury ?
Mr. Olrich. I have never lived at Eoxbury. I live in Jamaica
Plain, Ward 11.
Mr. Arens. Wliere is Jamaica Plain ?
Mr. Olrich. Jamaica Plain is the area of the city composed of
Wards 10 and 11 of the city of Boston.
Mr. Arens. Where were you born ?
Mr. Olrich. I was born in New York City.
Mr. Arens. And a word about your education.
Mr. Olrich. I was educated in the New York public schools. I
went to New York University, received a bachelor's degree, did one
year's undergraduate work there and two years of graduate work at
Harvard University Graduate School.
Mr. Arens. Do you have a master's degree ?
Mr. Olrich. No, I do not. I was studying for my Ph.D when my
father died and I couldn't afford to continue and I had to go out and
find a job to help support my mother.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present
place of employment ?
Mr. Olrich. Two years, sir.
Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to your
present employment ?
Mr. Olrich. For the same reasons I gave before I don't think it is
any point — they are all small people
Mr. Arens. Are you a small colonizer in these places ?
Mr. Olrich. If you think that earning a living working in a shop
is a colonizer
Mr. Arens. I don't think that and did not suggest that.
Mr. Olrich. If you know anything about tool and die makers, you
know tool and die makers move around. That is the way you learn
the trade and gain experience.
Mr. Arens. Have you moved around quite a bit in New England?
Mr. Olrich. No; in the city of Boston I probably had seven or
eight jobs in the past twenty or twenty-five years.
Mr. Arens. Have you been a colonizer for the Communist Party?
Mr. Olrich. Colonizer — what do you mean by colonizing in the
Communist Party ? When I got out of school I went to work, I had
to work for $35 a week. If you remember, it was during the de-
pression, and as a matter of fact, I may as well relate this, because one
of the fellows in the shop told me about it.
In the 1930's, MIT graduates coming to these shops were begging for
jobs for 40 cents an hour. I can't see anything subversive, suspicious
about a man working for a living, and if he changes his job I certainly
don't see any
Mr. Arens. I can't either. I agree with you one hundred percent,
absolutely.
COMMUNIIST ACTIVrTIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2379
Mr. Olrich. I am not a colonizer for any organization. I work in
a shop because the conditions are good and I like it, so I work there.
If the wages are good I stay there.
Mr. Arens. Let us get back on the subject, please, sir. Are you
now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Olrich. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the
first amendment and the fifth amendment and my rights under the
Constitution.
I want to add that I picked up an old civics book last night, which
I have right here, and, in fact, I forgot what the fifth amendment says.
It says nothing about incriminating one's self. It says no one will
be forced to bear witness against himself. It also has a very interest-
ing
Mr. Arens. I can shout you down, sir. I have been up against
others just like you.
Mr. Olrich. If you want to dismiss me from the stand — any time.
Mr. Arens. Not at all.
Mr. Olrich. You know I lost a whole day's pay, Mack, and I can't
afford it.
Mr. Arens. Yes. Have you ever been, or are you now, a member of
the Communist conspiracy ?
]Mr. Olrich. I refuse to answer that question on tlie grounds of the
first amendment, my right of free association, and on the grounds of
the fifth amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees my right
to refuse to answer questions before a star chamber proceeding such
as this.
If you read history, the history of the fifth am.endment and studied
it you would know it is explicitly put into our Constitution to protect
people against people like King George, star chamber proceedings,
torture proceedings, and there is a form of intimidation to call a man
up and ask him where he works and intimidate him.
I've got a wife and kids to support and my political opinions are
nobody's business but my own, and I want to say this, in all sincerity,
that if the Congressmen on this committee, Mr. Keerney and Mr. Doyle,
want to discuss — Congressman Keerney and Congressman Doyle —
Mr. Kearney. The name is "Kearney."
Mr. Olrich. "Kearney." I'm sorry sir.
I have always been open and above board with people with whom I
worked. I discuss my politics with them where I stand. Perhaps
that is why I am being called here. Nevertheless, I want you to know
I cordially invite you while you are staying in Boston to come down
to my house for supper and sit down, and we will talk about my po-
litical opinions. But before a star chamber proceeding like this, with
a man like Mr. Arens, who has a lot more experience than I will ever
have, when he is trying to entrap me into answering the question in
order to bring some sort of proceedings against me — even if I ever win
a case, suppose I give an answer, how can I afford as a working man
to go to court to hire a lawyer? I can't afford one now.
Mr. Kearney. If we accept your invitation to go to supper, will
you tell us whether you have been a member of the Communist Party
or not ?
Mr. Olrich. I won't give you a yes or no answer to that question.
You come to supper
2380 COMMUNIST ACT1\TT1ES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. IvEARNET. Then I ^von't come.
Mr. Olrich. — and I want to tell you this, Congressman Keer-
ney
Mr. Kearney. "Kearney."
Mr. Olrich. I am inviting you even though you are a Republican.
I will have a lot to explain to m}' friends about that, the guys I
work with.
Mr. Kearney. I wouldn't be seen associating with you if I were
they.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, please tell this committee whether or not you
know a person by the name of Armando Penha.
Mr. Olrich. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously given.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha for eight years was an undercover agent for
the FBI, the greatest investigative agency in the world, serving in
the Communist conspiracy, to get information to help protect this
Republic. He swore a day or so ago that while he was in that Commu-
nist conspiracy he knew you, Mr. Olrich, as a member of the Com-
munist Party and a member of the Boston Section Committee of the
Communist Party here.
Was Armando Penha telling the truth or was he in error?
Mr. Olrich. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated, and I think I have made mj^self pretty clear about
my attitude toward this committee and I am certainly not §oing to
answer questions pertaining to political opinions or associations re-
gardless of what they are.
I sincerely invite the Congressman to come down and visit me.
Mr. Kearney, We decline the invitation because you will not tell
us the truth.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. Have you any questions General Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.
Mr. D0YI.E. I think. Witness, you will have to recognize we were
pretty good sports because we did not bring out the name of your
employer. That is what you asked.
Mr. Olrich. Frankly, I think that in all of us, and let me say this
about congressmen particularly, I think there is fair play in all of us;
and my employer, for example, said to me — I might as well let you
know this. I don't think it is letting anything out.
He said : "Is this America, this calling of a guy to go before a com-
mittee on political things?"
I said : "I don't think it represents America. I think the American
people will reject it as McCarthyism, and I think they will get less and
less headway."
Mr. Arens. If you boys ever take over
^Ir. Olrich. I am talking to Congressman Doyle, sir. I am talk-
ing to Congressman Doyle, please, pal. I am trying to be as re-
spectful as possible about this thing. After all, you know I am a
United States
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
Mr. Olrich. You get what I mean. And I think you are being
very fair about not mentioning the name of my employer and I think
he appreciates it too.
COMTkrmOST activities est the new EN"GLA]SrD AREA 2381
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the next witness
be Mr. Joe Chase.
Mr. Joe Chase, will you kindly come forward and remain standing
while the chairman administers the oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chase, will you please raise your hand ?
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth so help you God ?
Mr. Chase. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Please take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH K. CHASE ^
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Chase. My name is Joseph Chase. I live at 33 Mason Terrace,
Brookline, and I am a railroad worker.
Mr. Arens. Where are you employed Mr. Chase ?
Mr. Chase. Well, I looked over this little blue book you gave me
here. I see, if I can find it, and it didn't say that you were going to
legislate for any one particular company. So in view of that I would
like to be excused from mentioning the name of my employer. It hap-
pens that the president of my company is having quite a lot of trouble
as things stand without me adding to them in any way at this time.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
now be ordered and directed to answer the question as to where he is
employed.
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer the question. It is pertinent as
a matter of identification.
Mr. Chase, Well, there is a precedent here which you established
only a little while ago sir.
Mr. Doyle. I Imow. Your brother was here, too, wasn't he ?
Mr. Chase. No. I am not referring to my brother. I am referring
to the previous witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest again the witness
be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Mr. Doyle. Don't engage in the same sort of byplay, please.
Mr. Chase. This isn't byplay. Your authorization don't call for
you to legislate for any one particular company.
Mr. Doyle. We will not take the time. That is the rule of the
committee, and the rules of the
Mr. Chase. I can't find it here.
Mr. Doyle. And the rules do not have to specify the name of every
company in tlie United States we want to question about. We are
questioning you and not your company. We are questioning your
conduct and not your company's.
Mr. Chase. You are here to gather facts. Am I correct on that?
]Mr. Doyle. That is right.
Mr. Chase. The Government already has the facts. It is on my
W-2 form, and the Internal Revenue knows where I work, and one
Government agency at a time I think is enough.
I think you have every facility for finding that out if you want to
find it out.
' Voucher for witness fee signed J. K. Chase.
2382 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Kearney. I would like to ask the witness a question, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, General Kearney.
Mr. IvEARNEY. Are you a member of Lodge 631, the Brotherhood
of Eailroad Trainmen 'i
Mr. Chase. Sir, if you are investigating unions
Mr. Kearney. Just answer yes or no.
Mr. Chase. I am not going to answer yes or no. I don't want to be
bulldozed by some congressman that is trymg to keep a committee
going. I know you've got a big staff. I know there is a lot of un-
employment. But I didn't come here to help you out on that score.
Mr. Doyle. You are not as smart as you think you are in making
that crack. It is a very uncomfortable thing for us to be here and
have to call people like you.
Mr. Chase, It is not very comfortable for me. I worked all night
last night and I have been sitting here for three days.
Mr. Doyle. We know it.
Mr. Kearney. Will you answer the question ?
Mr. Chase. Congress has a congressional committee that is investi-
gating unions and it is headed up by a gentleman by the name of
Senator McClellan, I believe, and if you want to go into unions, it
doesn't say anything about it here.
Mr. Kearney. Are you under suspension from your local union at
the present time ?
Mr. Chase. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, so that the record may be clear, I should
like to now make it abundantly clear for purposes which may arise
after this committee leaves Boston. One of the reasons why I am
seeking to elicit from this witness a confirmation of his employment is
that we understand that he is, or has been in the recent past, employed
on a vital industry, namely, a railroad, the New York, New Haven
& Hartford Railroad. We would like that confirmation from this
witness so that if he does give us the confirmation, we, having testi-
mony that he has been identified as a member of the Communist con-
spiracy, would like to take that information back to Washington
to be appraised in connection with other information to perhaps pre-
clude from vital communications, transportation, or other defense
facilities, persons who are members of the conspiratorial operations
directed from Moscow.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest
Mr. Chase. Hold on.
Mr. Arens. — that the witness be ordered and directed to answer
that question.
Mr. Chase. Could you shorten that up a little bit?
You mean you would like to get my job. Is that what j'ou mean,
Mr. Arens ? You'd like to get my job ? Is that what you are looking
for?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest
Mr. Chase. Are you looking for my job ?
Mr. Arens. — that the witness be ordered and directed to answer
the question.
Mr. Chase. May I ask the chairman? Mr. Doyle, are you looking
for my job, Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. No, we are not looking for your job.
COMMUIOST: activities in the new ENGLAND AREA 2383
Mr. Chase. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. I am glad to learn that because
I could see every evidence from the question of Mr. Director here
that that is what he is getting after.
Mr. Doyle. But we are interested in finding the extent to which
the identified Communists
Mr. Chase. You said yesterday in addressing one witness that you
already know the answers when you ask the questions.
Now this gentleman here said
Mr. Doyle. No. I didn't say that.
Mr. Chase. — tliis gentleman here has named my employer and
given it as much publicity as he desires. And of course a little
publicity attaches to the committee at the same time, I suppose, and
therefore it is a worthy objective.
Yes, sir, I do work for the New York, New Haven & Hartford
Railroad and have been so employed for 15 years.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity please, sir ?
Mr. Chase. Well, what is the importance of that sir?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now
be ordered and directed at his peril to answer that question.
Mr. Doyle. It is pertinent. Witness.
Mr. Chase. I don't see where it is pertinent, Mr. Doyle.
Now, if you want to write a book on how to switch boxcars, I will
give you every personal assistance that I can.
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer. Witness.
Mr. Chase. I don't see where it is pertinent what I do. I told
you what my occupation was. It is a railroad worker and has been
for 15 years.
Mr. Arens. Does the record reflect an order and direction to the
witness to answer the question ?
Mr. Doyle. I have directed him, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. I am going to proceed now to another question, Mr.
Witness. You understand.
Mr. Chase. I didn't hear that order, sir, I am without counsel
here to check on that stuff.
Mr. Doyle. I will repeat it Witness. I believe it is pertinent and
order and direct you to answer that question.
Ml". Chase. Well, I am a yard conductor.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ?
Mr. Chase. Ever since I got out of the Army in 1946, around the
beginning of 1946.
Mr. Arens. A day or so ago Armando Penha, INIr. Chase, under
oath, and before this committee, testified in effect that he had been an
undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the Com-
munist Party, and that in that capacity he knew you and identified
you to a certainty while he was under oath as a person known by him to
be a Communist and a member of the District Committee of the
Communist Party in the Boston area.
Mr. Chase. Mr. Doyle
Mr. Arens. Now, we would like to have you
Mr. Chase. I would like to ask the chairman a question.
Mr. Arens. — avail yourself of the opportunity to affirm or deny
that testimony.
Mr. Chase. May I ask the chairman a question ?
2384 COMMUNIST ACTIVrTIES IN THE JS'EW EInIGIAND AREA
Mr. Arens, Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, Witness, ask it.
Mr. Chase. Mr. Chairman, will the stenographer read the transcript
of Mr. Penha's testimony please?
Mr. Doyle. ^Ye do not have the transcript.
Mr. Chase. You told me you know. Mr. Chairman, all I know is
what I read in the papers.
Mr. Arens. I suggest the witness now be ordered and directed
Mr. Chase. Why can't you read me the record ? I wasn't here, sir.
A^Tiat kind of a hearing are you running here ?
Mr. Arens. This is an insult to the committee. I request, Mr.
Chairman, that the witness be ordered and directed to answer the
question at his peril.
Mr. Chase. Excuse me. Excuse me. Wait a minute. I want to
talk with the chairman.
Mr. Arens. INIr. Chairman, excuse the witness and see what happens.
Mr. Doyle. Witness
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, please direct this witness to answer the
question.
Mr. Doyle. Witness
Mr. Chase. I want to talk to the chairman. You be a quiet a
minute. You go into your act every time a man opens his mouth.
Mr. Doyle. Witness, now listen
Mr. Chase. I want to ask the chairman why you can't read the
transcript. I have been authorized to have
Mr. Doyle. You have asked me that question. If you will give me
a minute I will answer it.
Mr. Chase. Yes, sir. Go ahead.
Mr. Doyle. Then keep quiet.
In answering that question you have a right to assmne, I would say,
that our director has asked you a question based on the testimony
that actually was given.
Mr. Chase. But not as reported in the newspapers sir.
Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. It is not a newspaper story. Your
answer is entitled to be based on the question the way it is asked.
Mr. Chase. Well, I can. I recognize that. I recognize that. I
know enough about the rules and all that. But I still want a ruling
on my request, and I want the record to show that I requested that the
transcript be read. I have attended 100 railroad investigations, and
every time we ask to have the transcript read they cheerfully and
lionestly read it.
]\Ir. Doyle. I notified you that the transcript is not yet written up.
Mr. Chase. Then am I at liberty to discuss some portions of this
gentlemen's question ?
Mr. Doyle. You are at liberty to assume
Mr. Chase. I will have to go by the newspapers. That is all I
can go by.
Mr. Doyle. You are not
Mr. Chase. The newspapers didn't say-
Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. You are not entitled to go by the news-
papers. I told you as a matter of law and right you are entitled to go
by the question he asked j'ou and to assume that that is the question
you are to answer, and that that is what Witness Penha stated.
COMMUNTSiT ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2385
Mr. Chase. Well, he is wrong, and I am calling it to your atten-
tion he is wrong. Do you want me to tell you where he is wrong on
the record ?
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer the question asked by Mr. Arens.
Mr. Chase. Why don't w^e look at the record ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the interro-
gation of this w^itness now be concluded and that if the witness con-
tinues in his obstreperous offensive conduct toward this committee
he be forcibly removed from the hearing room.
Mr. Chase. Well, Mr. Doyle ■
Mr. Doyle. Witness, you are directed to answer the question. Now
will you answer it? Will you answer the question? I have directed
you to answer.
Mr. Chase. Well, sir, I will avail myself of every privilege I have
under the Constitution, that you have informed me you are all law-
yers, and I suppose Mr. Arens is some kind of a lawyer, and I will
avail myself under the privileges that are accorded to me under the
first and fifth amendments to refuse to answer that question, but
I would like to say this : That there is a lot of misinformation in that
question, that it does not correspond with the record.
Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. You refused to answer.
Mr. Chase. No. I haven't refused to answer if he would give me
the transcript.
Mr. Doyle. He doesn't have it.
Mr. Chase. Wlien the transcript is ready.
Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. I told you we didn't have the transcript
or w^e would give it to you.
Mr. Chase. Where is it ?
Mr. Arens. May we just conclude by asking you one simple ques-
tion : Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of tlie Commu-
nist Party ?
Mr. Chase. I decline to answer that question based on the first
and fifth amendments to the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Chase. You just asked me that question, sir.
Mr. Arens. No, I believe there is a distinction.
Mr. Chase. Would you indicate it to me? I don't see it.
Mr. Arens. First question was: Are you now, or have you ever
been, a member of the Communist Party, which would encompass both
past and present membership. You invoked your constitutional
privileges as you have a right to do. I then asked you if you are now
a present member of the Communist Party. Would you kindly
answer that question ?
Mr. Chase. Well, I will invoke the same privilege on that question.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chase. Now,
Mr. Kearney. Just a minute.
Mr. Chase. I am sorry I interrupted you, sir, but I wanted to ask
the chairman something.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Kearney.
Mr. Chase. Go ahead Mr. Kearney.
2386 COMMUNIST ACTrvrriE'S in the new England area
Mr. Doyle. Ask your questions, IMr. Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. Counsel has requested that the witness be escorted
from the hearing room by the United States Marshal. I would fur-
ther suggest that, in my humble opinion, the witness has been drinking
prior to his appearance here and that his subpena be continued with
the thought that he might be brought to Washington for further
testimony.
Mr. Chase. Well, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Well?
Mr. Chase. I have two requests to make from you. May I make
them now, sir?
Mr. Doyle. Make it brief.
Mr. Chase. All right. No, 1, that it says in the book here that if
you people are agreeable I will be supplied with a transcript of the
testimony.
Mr. Doyle. All right. You are entitled to it. But we don't have
it prepared yet.
Mr. Chase. Thank you. One more request : That a doctor be im-
mediately called to this room and that I be examined to see whether I
am intoxicated to any degree, and I will expect Mr. Kearney to cor-
rect his statement if that is not true. Here 1 am waiting for a
physician.
Mr. Kearney. It is not a question of any degree. We are not inter-
ested in the degree.
Mr. Chase. Here I am, ready for examination.
Mr. Kearney. I suggest that the request of counsel be carried out.
Mr. Chase. That is a very tough thing to throw at a railroad man.
You know yourself railroad men don't drink.
Mr. Kearney. That is the best one yet.
Mr. Doyle. Witness, we will continue your subpena to a further
date. Your subpena will continue in effect to a future date, and we
will notify you of the date and place later.
You are excused.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the com-
mittee stand in recess until tomorrow morning because it is now
after the hour of five o'clock. We have other witnesses and I
respectfully suggest the Chair order all witnesses under subpena for
appearances today who have not been heard to reappear tomorrow
morning.
Mr. Doyle. All witnesses under subpena are to return at 9 : 30 to-
morrow morning.
The committee will stand in recess until 9 : 30 tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 10 p. m., Thursday, March 20, 1958, the subcom-
mittee recessed to recon^'ene at 9: 30 a. m,, Friday, March 21, 1958.)
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
NEW ENGLAND AREA— PART 3
FRIDAY, MARCH 21, 1958
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Boston^ Mass.
PUBLIC HEARING
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
at 9 : 40 a. m., in courtroom No. 3, the United States Court House and
Post Office Buikiing-, Boston, Massachusetts, Honorable Clyde Doyle,
(acting chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Committee members present : Eepresentatives Clyde Doyle, of Cali-
fornia, and Bernard W. Kearney, of New York.
Staif members present: Richard Arens, staff director; George C.
Williams and Frank Bonora, investigators.
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order.
Let the record show that General Kearney of New York and Doyle
of California are both present, being a quorum of the subcommittee
of three.
We will proceed, Mr. Arens, with the first witness.
Mr. Arens. John Russo, kindly come forward.
Mr, Doyle. Before I swear the witness, I want to say this :
The committee appreciates the very good cooperation we have had
from the listeners in the courtroom these- three days. This is the last
day we will be here. We know that every person in the courtroom
realizes that they are guests of the committee, and Ave will anticipate
and expect from everyone the same helpful cooperation that we have
had these three days ; so tliat there will be no outbursts and no inter-
ruption of any kind.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Marshal, would you kindly page John Russo ?
The Marshal. John Russo. John Russo.
No answer.
Mr. Kearney. Call the next one.
Mr. Arens. There is a possibility, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Russo
could be confused on the time. As you know, we are starting early
today.
Is Mr. Roy Rogerson here ?
Mr. Rosenberg. Mr. Rogerson is expected here, sir. I represent
him.
Mr. Arens. He may be in the same status. He may be confused.
We are starting early.
2387
2388 COMMUNIST ACTlVITIEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Rosenberg. He is coming from New Bedford.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Marshal, call Benning Maskiewicz.
The MARSHAL. ISIr. Maskiewicz, are you here? Benning Maskie-
wicz ?
No answer.
Mr. Arens. Armando Penha.
Mr. DoTLE. I did not suppose this kind of wet weather would niake
New Englanders late or tardy when the gentleman from California is
here on time, and a half hour earlier.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha lias already been sworn.
TESTIMONY OF AEMANDO PENHA— Resumed
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, our purpose in recalling you this morning
is to complete your testimony. As you know, over the course of the
last two or three days we had so many witnesses that in our principal
testimony we were able to cover only part of the area that we wanted
to interrogate you about.
I should like to invite your attention now, if you please, to the gen-
eral subject of the Communist Party undergi'ound operation, and per-
mit you, if you please, sir, to proceed at your own pace, to give us the
details on that, in summary form, and also give us the names and a •
word of characterization of each person who to your certain knowl-
edge, has in the recent past been engaged in the Commmiist Party
underground.
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir.
Sir, I ho]3e you will bear with me today. I feel much more ex-
hausted as the days go by. So I will be a little slower, but at the same
time I will get the point across.
Mr. Arens. Perhaps it would be well if we would start, Mr. Penha,
with the leadership of the underground in this area.
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir. I would like to start with first Michael Russo.
Michael Russo was district organizer, and was ordered to go com-
pletely undergromid.
Mr. Arens. About when was that ?
Mr. Penha. That was approximately 1952. I would like to state
for the record that while Michael Russo was underground, one of his
major tasks was to guide the semi-underground and so-called mouth-
pieces of the party that were out in the open. He was the one that was
given directives at all times.
I would also like to state that while he was in the underground he
changed his identity. I met him on several occasions. He used to
use different places to meet and to sleep : Providence, Rhode Island,
Attlebury, Greater Boston area, Martha's Vinej^ard, et cetera.
He, as I recall, had dyed his hair, grew a mustache, used glasses,
wore a hat, which is something he never did, among other matters that
he undertook to protect any possibility of disclosure of himself.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, may I just ask you from the standpoint of
elementary presentation, what is meant by "going underground"?
What does that phrase carry with it from the standpoint of actual
operations?
Mr. Penha. From the standpoint of actual operations, sir, it means
that the party needs certain elements and outstanding members to be
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN I'HE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2389
out of circulation, so that they will not face possible arrest, as one of
the cases. The other, that they are in a position to maneuver without
being known as well.
Mr. Arens. Now, who else to your certain knowledge in the recent
past has been in the Communist Party in this area, in positions of
leadership, first of all ?
Mr. Penha. Daniel Boone Schirmer, David Rosenberg, and Sidney
Lipshires. I may add at this time, that the comrades were full-
time paid functionaries while they were underground.
Mr. ilEENS. What is the purpose of an underground operation by
the Communist Party.
Mr. Peniia. The purpose of such activities is for those leaders to
coordinate, direct and supervise the activities of colonization, infiltra-
tion, mass agitation, and other activities.
Mr. Arens. IMay I ask a naive question, to make the record a little
clearer ? Why do they go underground ? Why don't they do all this
above ground ?
Mr. Penha. Sir, with your kind permission I had this in mind
since last night. I have been thrashing it around for some time. I
would like if I may, not only to answer your question on that but to
continue to use this term. In answer to your qustion, they went
underground because the Communist Party is not a political party.
It is a conspiracy. Secondly, I would like to ask you if I may, to
refer to the Communist Party as a Communist conspiracy. I don't
think it is worthy of the name "party."
Mr. Arens. Kindly proceed at your own pace on a description of
the underground operations in the New England area by the Com-
munist conspiracy, and give us something of the techniques.
Mr. Peniia. I was wondering, sir, whether it would be an oppor-
tune time, although I have stated in the past, I believe, the names of
some of these individuals.
Mr. Arens. Yes ; that is what I should like to have you do, if you
please.
Mr. Peniia. Thank you, sir. The following persons I am going
to mention were known to me during the entire eight years, as secret
members of the Communist conspiracy.
Mr. Arens. They were in the underground, is that correct ?
Mr. Peniia. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Arens. Proceed now, if joii please, at your own pace.
Mr. Penha. In one form or another they aided or abetted — they
just followed the instructions of the top leadership, which I referred
to before.
Incidentally, before I get into these names, Michael Russo, for ex-
ample, had code names while he was underground ; Sidney Lipshires,
also, which only a few of us knew.
Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, sir.
Mr. Penha. Nathaniel Shelman. He was a colonizer for the pur-
poses of colonizing the Aerovox Corporation, New Bedford, Mass.,
working from within, as instructed by the district. Andie Shelman,
his wife, also a colonizer. She was very effective in establishing so-
called Communist fronts along with other activities. She was very
active in the New England Citizens Concerned for Peace, the New
Bedford Peace Committee, the Progressive Party and other activities.
24777— 58— pt. 3 8
2390 OOMMUNrST ACTIVITIEiS in the new ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Arens. Now, when you were talking about individuals in the
underground, you do not mean necessarily that they obliterated their
above-ground activities, do you ?
Mr. Penha. Absolutely not, sir. That is why I referred to them
as secret members.
Mr. Arens. In other words, a person whom you may be discuss-
ing, would have an open Communist Party activity, be perhaps an
organizer or do any one of a number of things, propaganda and the
like, above ground, but at the same time be operating in another phase
of his life underground ; is that correct ?
Mr. Penha. That is absolutely correct, sir. And further, his in-
structions were known to him or to her as coming directly or indirectly
from the underground officials.
Arnold Schwartz, colonizer at the Wamsutta Mills.
Rosaline Schwartz, also another colonizer, his wife, who also par-
ticipated in many of the fronts.
Geoffrey White. I think it is important to bear with me a second
to get straight just on this particular person, because he is typical of
many of the comrades that are colonizers. I think it was illustrated
here in the person of Arnold Schwartz, but I would rather just talk
about Geoffery White at the present. That is a person, as intelligent
as he is, a Harvard graduate, a person who became imbedded in com-
munism, a hard-core Communist, who would stop at nothing to follow
the party line and accept party discipline, went into industry, an
industrial plant in Rhode Island, to work; subsequently he went to
the South, again as a colonizer.
I may also add that Geoffrey White while in the role of a colo-
nizer — and I think this is the important thing — he was able to reach
the minds of the workers by being the editor of the paper in the plant.
He also was able to recruit at least two party members, to my
knowledge; one Anthony DiBiase; the other, Jerry DiBiase.
The next person, Manuel Rego. Manuel Rego from Fairhaven,
Mass., a long-standing Communist member, who was several years
ago put on ice. By that I mean that he was put on ice because of the
fact that no other member in the party except those very close to the
leadership were to know that he was not to be tied into the Com-
munist conspiracy any longer.
The purpose of that was we were to use his home for secret meet-
ings, which we did many times.
Frank Mello, Massachusetts. Again, the use of his home on an
identical basis as the previously mentioned Communist.
Mr. Arens, Mr. Penha, may I suggest if you have already in your
testimony identified a person who is in the underground, it would not
be necessary to characterize him, but just mention his name again and
proceed to the next name.
Mr. Peniia. Thank you, sir. Alex Leith, the so-called "brain"
within the UE for the Communist Party, in charge of agitation and
propaganda, an expert. He was sent out to the Square D strike
for the party, not to settle the strike, but to create more agitation.
He also took part in other areas in New England on the same basis.
Walter Barry, from New York City, national coordinator of the
National Textile Commission, a hard-core Communist.
Douglas Perry — I believe I could speak on this conspirator for
hours if we had the time.
COMMIHSriST activities est the new ENGLAND AREA 2391
Robert Goodwin, very fortunately for our country that while he
performed his duties as a colonizer within the GE plant in Lynn, he
was exposed and, subsequently, he was either forced to resign or he
was fired. However, he did take a very active part in the Metals
Commission activities in the party after that.
Robert Handman, national coordinator or chairman of the National
Texile Commission, New York City, a former colonizer himself in
the South, a hard-core disciplined Communist.
JMaud Russell from New York City, a specialist in Far East publica-
tions, going through the country at many times in many areas, just
to raise the question of peace, peace for China, not for the United
States.
Arthur Macedo, New Bedford, Mass. His home was also used for
the purposes of a mail drop, that is, secret party documents that were
sent to me, which I believe you gentlemen have one of the envelopes
of, at his home, in order that I would be able to get it without the
authorities knowing anything about it.
Kitty Heck, a member of the District Committee, imported from
another state to work in this area, to maintain discipline and to act
as a courier.
There were many techniques used in the underground apparatus.
I believe it would take too long of our time, unfortunately, so I will
just attempt to touch the highlights of some of them.
Mr. Arens. Was Harold Lewengrub in the underground?
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir; I had his name on another list here which
I was going to raise. He was a driver and courier for the party.
Mr. Arexs. Now, I should like, if we have concluded with a general
outline on the underground, to invite your attention to an area in
which you have not previously testified, namely, the front groups in
the New England area, which were controlled by the Communist
Party. Would you please indicate each of several of these front
groups and tell us the names of the comrades who were at the throttle
in those groups.
Mr. Penua. Yes, sir. First of all I would like to say in respect
to front organizations, they more or less constitute one of the most
popular and effective tactics of the party, to reach people in the
broad scale. At the same time it is a means of bringing the party
line to the public in such a form that they are not aware of it.
I believe an important phase that I should at this time state before
1 go on to the names is that members who are in such front organiza-
tions—and that is, members of the Communist conspiracy — gain ex-
])erience in leadership and show whether or not they can take party
discipline, so that they may be prepared for the future. It is a good
proving ground in so far as the party is concerned.
Mr, Arens. So this record may reflect an elementary definition of a
front group, what do you mean by a Communist front group?
Mr. Penha. By a Communist front group, sir, I mean a group
that either is developed by the Communist Party, that is, originated
by it, or one that the party gets into and eventually takes control
of.
Mr. Arens. May I inquire as to the purpose of the Communist
Partj^ in either creating front groups or in undertaking to take over
an existing organization and make it subject to the will of the party ?
What is the objective of the party in doing that ?
2392 OOMMUNTST ACTTVTTTEiS IN THE NEW EISTGLAND AREA
Mr. Penha. They have several objectives, sir. One which I think
is very elementary in the party but at the same time very pertinent,
is that they utilize these front organizations for the purposes of at-
tempting to see that the party continues to be legalized; in other
words, to fight committees, such as this one here, in all forms and
shapes, to fight particularly innnigration laws that are pending or
that have been pending in the past.
Mr. Arexs, Does the party use front groups for the purpose of
disseminating the Communist Party line ?
Mr. Penha. That is right, sir.
Mr. Arens. Does the party use front groups for the purpose of
undertaking to engender at the crossroads a sentiment for the purpose
of creating pressure on the Congress on specific issues ?
Mr. Penha. That, sir, I will make in reference to those various
sections of the immigration laws. That is what I actually had refer-
ence to, sir. From my experience, they did it and they did a wonder-
ful job at it.
Mr. Arens. Does the party use front groups for the purpose of
funneling funds from dupes and others of that variety into the party
coffers, or for party purposes ?
Mr. Penha. My experience has been, sir, that it has secured many
times money collected by so-called party fronts. First, in my expe-
rience, a great proportion of it was put into the party and then the
rest placed in the fronts.
Mr. Arens. 'Wliat kind of a facade does the front group operate
behind ? Wliat kind of names do they pick out for the organizations,
in order to trap the unwary ?
Mr. Penha. I shall list a few that I recall. I respectfully ask you
to bear with me as in the eight years I cannot recall too many of them,
but I do have some here that I made notes of.
The New England Citizens Concerned for Peace.
Mr. Arens. The New England Citizens Concerned for Peace. That
is a very laudable-sounding name.
Mr. Penha. Who isn't for peace? That is what the Communists
say.
jNIr. Arens. Now, tell us about that organization, and who ran it
and for what purposes.
Mr. Penha. The purposes of that committee were for just one
thing and one thing only — put pressure on Congress against TJMT.
Mr. Arens. UMT — Universal Military Training?
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir. The Korean War they felt was not
to the advantage of the comrades in China and at the same time it
offered them the opportunity to undermine and harass our public
oificials in tlie Government at large.
Mr. Arens. Was the New England Citizens Concerned for Peace
controlled by the Communist conspiracy ?
Mr. Penha. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind about it, sir.
Mr. Arens. Who were these people in the conspiracy who con-
trolled the organization ?
Mr. Penha. Sir, before I answer that question, I would like to say
this:
In many organizations, as you are vrell aware, throughout the coun-
try, party tactics are not to have the figurehead as a Communist.
COMJMXmiST ACTIVITIES lA^ THE NEW EJS[ GLAND AREA 2393
It would defeat its purpose. But rather, to have Communists m key
positions to do the job well.
In the New England Citizens Concerned for Peace, Florence Tam-
sky, from the Boston area, was very effective.
Mr. Kearney. Is she a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Penha. I beg your pardon, sir ?
Mr. Kearney. Is she a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Penha. At all times that I knew her she was a member of the
party, yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney. I wish when you mention these persons, you would
state whether or not they were members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Penha. Sir, I shall only mention
Mr. Arens. Let us have a blanket understanding that you will not
identify here on this record today any person who was not, to your
certain knowledge known to be a hard-core member of the Communist
conspiracy.
Mr. Penha. May I say that was just what I was going to answer
the Congressman.
Mary Figueirido, from New Bedford.
Frances Hood, that is Otis Hood's wife.
Jean Bellefeuille. I would like to take a moment just to more or
less show the tactics of the party.
Mr. Arens. Would you hesitate a moment until we see if we have
a right spelling. Is that J-e-a-n B-e-1-l-e-f-e-u-i-l-l-e?
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir. He is from Whitman, Mass. I would like
to point out in the person of Jean how the party operates within a
front.
The party in advance, when they held its conference here in Boston,
arranged different types of panels, that is, labor panels and others of
the like. I attended the labor panel. The chairman of that panel
was Jean.
Needless to say he conducted the party line as chairman of that
panel. That is what I mean by exercising their control in such or-
ganizations and in key positions.
Mr. Arens. May I suggest we turn to another front organization ?
Mr. Penha. The New Bedford Peace Committee.
Mr. Arens. That again has a very fine-sounding name. Everybody
is for peace. Tell us about that organization and about persons who,
to your certain knowledge were in control of that organization.
Mr. Penha. I may add first that I was in complete charge of the
New Bedford Peace Committee. However, I did not participate in
it. I had other activities. My job was to see that the New Bedford
Peace Committee did promote war, not peace.
Rozlyn Fishman, one of the key members of this committee — pres-
ently she is in Connecticut.
Edward Texeira, who, incidentally, represented the New England
Citizens Concerned for Peace in New Bedford. I would like to take
one moment here, sir, I think it is very important for all of us. We
have been speaking aoout nationality groups and minorities. I think
we should give the greatest gratitude and compliments to the Negro
Elks Order in Boston. Edward Texeira was mstructed to infiltrate
that organization. He did, and these distinguished members of this
order somehow, somewhere, were aware of it after a time, that he did
2394 COMMUNIST AcnvrriES m the new England area
some damage, and they subsequently expelled him, which shows that
99 percent at least of the Negro people are against communism.
Rosaline Schwartz was in that same committee.
Mr. Arens. She was in the New Bedford Peace Committee?
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Arens. Is there another front organization which has been
operating in the New England area which to your certain knowledge
has been and is controlled by the Communist conspiracy?
Mr. Penha. The New Bedford Committee to Fight Unemployment.
Mr. Arens. There again we find a very laudable name — to fight un-
employment. Tell us about that organization and the leadership of
the organization.
Mr. Penha. Well, first of all, this organization was set up at a meet-
ing which took place with Sidney Lipshires, the district organizer,
myself, and then subsequent meetings which we invited Douglas Perry
to attend. Ironically, it started off as such a committee for unemploy-
ment, but where the party saw it was not getting too effective, we
switched it over to the New Bedford Surplus Commitee, so you can see
the tactics of the party.
Mr. Doyle. Did you change the name of the committee ?
Mr. Penha. It was sort of a subcommittee.
Mr. Arens. Who ran the committee ?
Mr. Penha. It was in the responsibility of Douglas Perry, Roy
Rogerson, and Olga Garczynski.
Mr. Arens. All of whom have been known by you to a certainty
as members of the conspiracy, is that correct?
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Arens. Is there another committee or organization which has
been controlled by the Communist Party in this area which to your
certain knowledge is a Communist front t
Mr. Penha. The Massachusetts Committee for the Bill of Rights.
Mr. Arens. Here again we see, do we not, Mr. Penha, a very laud-
able, lofty title ? ...
Mr. Penha. Sir, this committee was established for only one pur-
pose, and that was to put all the pressure within its command, of the
Communist conspiracy, to do away with the State Sedition Law, which
I believe was passed in 1919 in Massachusetts, the 1951 law which out-
lawed the party in Massachusetts, the Smith Act, the McCarran Act,
and Immigration Acts — numerous acts, everything, in other words,
that was anti-Communist, in order to preserve the legal status of the
party.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us the names of those persons
who controlled the organization, who to your certain knowledge are
members of the conspiracy ?
Mr. Penha. Nathaniel Mills, Florence Luscomb, Mary Carlson,
Herbert Zimmerman — these are Just a few of them.
Mr. Arens. Is there another organization operating in the New
England area which to your certain knowledge is controlled by the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Penha. Another past committee is the Boston Committee to
Secure Clemency for the Rosenbergs.
Mr. Arens. The Rosenbergs were Julius and Ethel Rosenberg who
were executed for treasonable acts; is that correct?
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2395
Mr. Akens. Kindly tell us the members known by you to be Com-
munists, who were in control of that organization?
Mr. Penha, I would say by and large, practically all of the peo-
ple whom I have mentioned in the Boston area, and the other com-
mittees were active in this one.
Herman Tamsky was one of the head ones, but the others by and
large were very active in it. However, I would like just to raise one
point here :
In New Bedford we were very active for the Rosenberg affair. The
party took advantage of the fact that the Pope made an appeal of
some kind for clemency. As a result I worked closely with several
people, that is, non-Communists, non-Communist Party people, many
of them dupes, but one in particular, I do not wish to mention her
name, because I will only mention Communist conspirators ; however,
this person was so fully convinced upon my various meetings with her
to the extent that she sent a telegram to President Eisenhower offer-
ing her life in exchange for the Rosenbergs.
Mr. Arens. Is there another organization which has been con-
trolled by the Communist Party in the New England area, to your
certain knowledge, and if so please give us the names of the comrades
in charge of the operation ?
Mr. Penha. Progressive Party of Massachusetts. Walter O'Brien,
who was the chairman of the Progressive Party in the State of Mas-
sachusetts.
Sam Appel, who was in charge for the Fall River area. Rosaline
Schwartz, for the New Bedford area.
Mr. Arens. Is there another front organization ?
Mr. Penha. Freedom of the Press Committee.
Mr. Arens. That is a very laudable title, is it not, to have freedom
of the press ?
Mr. Penha. You know, sir, that is one thing that has always
baffled me. Even though I became a top leader in the Communist
Party, I couldn't understand where the word "Freedom" came in in
that Press situation.
Mr. Kearney. Let me ask you this question with reference to this
committee for freedom of the press :
Were any of these individuals who were on this committee members
of the press themselves ?
Mr. Penha. Sir, to my knowledge, the meetings that I attended of
the Freedom of the Press Committee, I never met one that was not
a Communist conspirator.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, the average hard-working member
of the press had nothing to do with this committee at all, did he?
Mr. Penha. He would have no way of getting into the place. He
would not know where the place of meeting was, to start with. He
would not know just who to see and if he was fortunate to get
through those two stages, he would never be fortunate enough to sit
down and have the privilege, as they have here.
Mr. Arens. Is there another organization which, to your cer-
tain knowledge, lias been controlled by the Communist conspiracy?
Mr. Penha. The Labor Youth League.
Mr. Arens. That is the successor organization to the American
Youtli for Democracy ; is it not ?
2396 ooMMTJisriiST AcrivmEiS m the new England area
Mr. Penha. The American Youtli for Democracy ; that is right, sir.
The Labor Youth League is nothing more than young Communists.
AVlien they have been properly indoctrinated, when the party has
felt that they are ready to accept assignments and discipline, then
they are promoted into the Communist conspiracy.
John Kusso has been the head of it ; and Ann White, of Providence,
Rhode Island, is responsible for that area.
Joan Lipshires was for a time in charge throughout the New
England area for it, too.
Mr. Arens. Is there another organization known by you to be con-
trolled by the Communist conspiracy in the New England area ?
Mr. Penha. There is very unfortunately the Clube Alianca Liberal
Portuguesa.
I say very unfortunately, because, as I stated the first day, less than
one percent of the people of Portuguese extraction in the New Bedford
area — and I am sure this is true elsewhere — are anti- Communist.
Mr. Arens. Perhaps you could help us on our record by spelling the
title of that organization.
Mr. Penha, C-1-u-b-e A-1-i-a-n-c-a Liberal would be the same as
English, and actually Portuguesa, which you can say Portuguese,
which is — it is the same.
Mr. Arens. You said a moment ago, if my recollection serves me
correctly, that a very high percentage of them were not anti-Com-
munist. You mean they loere anti-Communist, do you not?
Mr. Penha. If I said tliat, I did that with —
Mr. Arens. A slip of the tongue?
Mr. Penha. I thought I did say "anti-Red," I think. If you read
that back I am quite sure I did.
Mr. Arens. I want to be quite sure the record is straight on that.
Mr. Penha. There is no doubt in my mind on that, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now kindly give us the names of the principal leaders
of this organization who to your certain knowledge are Communists ?
Mr. Penha. The leader in this club is John Cordeiro who happens
to be the father-in-law of Douglas Perry. He has held official posi-
tions on the club. There are other persons in the club who were in
the past Communist members, but as I stated before, I would only
mention those as being in tlie party during my time, even though they
have admitted to me and to district officials, that they were party
members. I will not reveal them unless ordered to.
Mr. Arens. How many members are there in the club ?
Mr. Penha. I would say between 65 to 80.
Mr. Arens. And how many of those members are Communists ?
Mr. Penha. One.
Mr. Arens. And does the Communist Party control the policy of
the club, notwithstanding the overwhelming majority who are not
Communists ?
Mr. Penha. Absolutely, sir. That club has had during the past
3'ears persons like Elizabeth Gurley Flynn speaking there, Nat Mills,
Joseph Figueiredo, Anne Burlak Timpson, Eulalia Figueiredo, and,
of course, myself, at that time.
Oh, I would like to make a correction here, sir. That club has an
auxiliary, a woman's auxiliary. Mary Figueirido was a member of
that auxiliary, and she held also official positions.
COMMUNIiST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2397
Mr. Ai'vENS. Are there any other organizations operating in the New
England area which to your certain knowledge are controlled by the
Communist conspiracy ?
Mr. Penha. Sir, I am sure there are more. My memory at the
present
Mr. Arens. May I suggest for consideration by yourself the organ-
ization, Save Our Sons Committee.
What was the purpose of that organization, and was it controlled
by the conspiracy ?
" Mr. Penha. It was absolutely controlled, sir. The purpose of that
was again another technique that the party devised in order to put
across" its propaganda and its party line wliicli otherwise would not
be possible.
Mr. Arens. Who headed the committee ? It was headquartered in
Chicago, was it not ?
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir. I am trying to think of the name.
Mr. Aeens. Then there was a unit here; is that correct?
Mr. Penha, Yes; the unit here is what I am trying to think of.
Mr. Arens. Could you tell us about another organization, the Amer-
ican Committee for Protection of Foreign Born ?
Mv. Penha. I don't know how I missed that one. The American
ComiMittee for Protection of Foreign Born.
Wliat can I say about this committee — it is the number one, the right
arm of the Communist Party in developing its tactic of mass agita-
tion, propaganda, and defending the legal status of the party.
Mr. Arens. Did you know that we in our committee, in the course
of the last year, have uncovered 200 organizations which the American
Committee' for Protection of Foreign Born has itself created ? We call
these, fronts in front of the front. Two hundred organizations in
fifteen key states, created by the Communist conspiracy with all kinds
of high-sounding names, all for the avowed purpose or for the secret
purpose, at least, of bringing pressure on the Congress of the United
States to emasculate the Immigration and Nationality Act, popularly
known as the Walter-lNIcCarran Act.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Arens, I think my recollection is correct, in connec-
tion with that committee for tlie protection of the foreign born.
We have heard sworn testimony, uncontradicted, that that commit-
tee in certain states has as its executive, f ulltime, salary-paid officials,
members of the Communist Party, who have been convicted in our
highest court in violation of the Smith Act.
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir; and the head of that committee is Abner
Green, international Cominf orm agent.
Mr. Penha. I may add in this area, Olive Sutton has been respon-
sible for the activities of that committee. She is the wife of Alex
Leith.
I would like to raise an interesting point here on the American
Committee for Protectioii of Foreign Born.
During the time of Eulalia's arrest, we had, as I recall, about three
committees working, one the American Committee for Protection of
Foreign Born, the other one, as you are well aware, the National
Women's Appeal For the Eights of Foreign Born Americans, which
is another branch of the same group, and Ihe other one the Commit-
tee — I don't recall the exact words of it, but something like New
2398 OOMMUNTST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Bedford committee to help Eulalia Figueiredo, something like that,
which again was instructed by the party, as a branch of the American
Committee for Protection of Foreign Born.
Mr. Aeens. In addition to the front groups — and I know a
number of others that you have told us about, and we will not take
time to explore them on this public record — have the comrades been
under instruction to penetrate and undertake to influence legitimate
organizations within the New England area ?
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arexs. Can you give us two or three illustrations of that ?
Mr. Penha. Well, I think a few minutes ago I jumped the gun on
one, and that was the Negro Elks Order here in Boston. That was a
legitimate organization, which a party colonizer was to infiltrate.
Fortunately for the Chapter, they didn't succeed as well.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, I should like to ask you for just a word,
from the standpoint of clarifying the record, on the use of member-
ship cards by the conspiracy. Mr. Williams will lay before you a copy
of a document which you have submitted to us previously, and ask
you to kindly identify that document.
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Give us a word of characterization of that document,
please, an explanation of it.
Mr. Penha. This, sir, much to the surprise of the rank and file
Communist, was one of the systems that the top leadership in New
England used for the purpose of registration.
On this card there would be certain information that would be
pertinent to the party. Unaware to the member he would give it
without knowing that the organizer was going to put it on here be-
cause no record was supposed to be kept.
Mr. Arens. In other words the party itself has its own information
system ; is that correct ?
Mr. Penha. It has a very airtight one, too, I may say.
Mr. Dotle. Is there any address on that card where it is to be filed
or registered ?
Mr. Penha. Absolutely not, sir.
I should, if you would like, to just raise some points that are on
the card, along each line :
Section for code name ; age ; sex ; Negro ; occupation ; Union ; Mass
organizations — what they mean by this is the front organizations and
legitimate organizations that they can possibly infiltrate. In-club
that means whether a party member belongs to an industrial club
or community club. Then it has SW, DW. That means whether or
not lie takes the Sunday Worker or the Daily Worker, whether di-
rectly or indirectly,
Mr. Doyle. In other words, that which jou have read is printed
right on the card ?
Mr. Penha. That is right on the card. That is made by the district.
Incidentally, sir, I would like also to point out that on the back
of the card you will see Number 19 in red. This was known as Regis-
tration Code Number 19 in the district. Please don't ask me how
I have it in my hands, and they were not able to find out what hap-
pened to it, for security reasons of techniques.
C0MMU1!^I18T ACTlVITIEiS IN THE NEW ENC'LAND AREA 2399
Mr. Aeens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the docu-
ment which has just been identified by the witness be appropriately
marked and incorporated by reference in this record.
Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked and incorporated in the record.
(Document marked "Penha Exhibit No. 6" and retained in com-
mittee files. )
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, I understand that there are names of a
dozen or so people who to your certain knowledge have been in the
apparatus in each of several general categories, and I should like you
to kindly proceed with your identification and characterization of each
of those several persons, so that you may complete your testimony.
Mr. Penha. Tillie Texeira. She is the wife of Edward Texeira.
She was veiy active in the Boston area with the meat packers union.
That is where she exerted her influence and control under party
directives.
Peggy Schirmer, Daniel Boone Schirmer's wife.
Alice Mills, wife of Nathanial Mills from Lynn.
Louis Johnson from Colorado, who came to this area and partici-
pated in party defense activity. I believe at the present he is back
in Colorado.
Pearl Russo, wife of Mike Eusso.
Bonita Eusso, very active in the Labor Youth League and subse-
quently married its leader, John Russo.
David Lubell. I believe it would be beneficial if I gave the other
brother, because the information in the identification area coincides
completely with both of them, in order to save time.
Jonathan Lubell. I first met with them some time in the early part
of 1952, I believe it was January or February, at a secret meeting
which was held in Dorchester, with these two brothers, who inci-
dentally are twins.
Mike Russo and myself met with them. On the agenda was the
matter of agitation and propaganda and influence of college students
in this area. I would like to raise this point.
Both of these twins were Harvard students at the time, and or-
ganizers for the party at the same time. They had influence, as I
recall, they reported, in the following colleges or universities, that is,
within the student bodies — I am not referring to the faculties.
Mr. Arens. Did you know over in Lawrence, Massachusetts, Tony
Passaretti ?
Mr. Penha. I did, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a comrade?
Mr. Penha. I certainly did.
Mr. Arens. Tell us a word about him, please, sir.
Mr. Penh^. Tony is a section organizer for Lawrence area.
Mr. Arens. Is he active?
Mr. Arens. He has been active, but in the last few years has some-
what slowed down the pace. He has a lot of pressure put on him
by the party to step it up.
Mr. Kearney. You say he lives in Lawrence?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Penha. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kearney. At the present time?
2400 CX)MMIINTST ACTTVTTTE-S IN THE NEW ENGLAND ARE'A
Mr. Penha. I would not say exactly at the present time because they
could have changed in the last 24 hours or so.
Mr. Kearney, You have named other individuals, have you not,
who are members of the party, living in the city of Lawrence?
Mr, Penha, I have here to identify, sir — I don't recall any other.
Wliat you have in mind, sir, is when I identified the New England
District Committee I placed Tony Passaretti in there as being a mem-
ber of the New England District Committee, from Lawrence. I think
that is where your recollection stems from.
Incidentally, on these twin brothers there was an amount of $150
turned over as dues collected, to Mike Russo at that meeting. Fifteen
students from Harvard had paid their dues and six from MIT.
Mr. Arens. What year was that? Could you help us in that, please
sir?
Mr. Penha. That was in the very early part of 1952. I would like
to say if I may at this time, I do know that they are practicing law to-
day, I believe, in the New York area. I think that it is the duty of the
New York Bar Association to call both of these conspirators before
the bar and direct them to answer the question whether or not they
have been conspirators, because I think it is a disgrace to the legal
profession to have such persons in it.
Martha Stone, National Committee member.
Emil Asher. At the time, he was in New Jersey, he attended
with George Sheldrick one of the National Textile Commission meet-
ings. Incidentally he is the husband of Martha Stone.
Phil Bineau, UE organizer.
Eileen Breen, Scituate, Mass. Her home has been used for secret
meetings. She has been very active in the various Communist fronts
that I have mentioned. She is also the mother of Joan Lipshires.
Barbara Rosenkrants, the wife of Paul Rosenkrants. She was at
one time section organizer for Springfield area.
Carl Carlson, Scituate, Mass. I believe I established his wife as be-
ing in the party, a few minutes ago, Mary Carlson,
I would like to take one minute on another teclmique of the party.
The Carlson's had a home which they were renovating. They
wanted a new heating system. It came to the attention of
Sidney Lipshires, At that lime I Avas employed at Simon's Supply
Company. Sidney Lipshires came to me and said, "What is the possi-
bility of buying all the implements that are necessary for a heating
system from beginning to end, the whole works at wholesale price for
Comrade Carlson ? He will come down and pick it up.
"And, as a result of that, the difference between the retail price, he
will give it to the party."
I said I woulcl go along with it provided — One, I could obtain
permission from my employers without revealing anything what-
soever to do with the Commimist conspiracy ; that I was doing tliis as
a personal friend or relative.
Secondly, if New Bedford would be credited with that quota, be-
cause we all had quotas to meet.
They did agree on that and subsequently that was done and we got
the difference between the cost of the retail and wholesale.
Here is anotlier device and technique that the part}^ uses in getting
money, too.
COMMUNI&T ACriVlTlEvS IN THE NEAV ENGLAND AREA 2401
Edmund Izzo, originally from Lawrence, but then in the Boston
area for some time.
Dr. Abe Cohen, from Quinc3\ The gentleman— and I don't Iniow
why I say "gentleman," was in charge of the first subleadership group
in 1951, in the district — I believe October of '51.
Bess Jones, Boston area.
Sir, there are many other names but I think we just can't keep up
on names.
IVIr. Arens. You have, of course, been in session with us extensively,
both in executive session and in the numerous consultations. I wanted
the public record here to reflect those additional names of persons who
to your certain knowledge have been in each of several categories in
the conspiracy in the last few years.
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir ; I appreciate it, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest, in view of
the fact we have two or three other witnesses we want to hear this
morning before the recess, that we conclude the staff interrogation of
this witness.
I respectfully suggest for obvious reasons, that this witness be
maintained under a continuing subpena for an indefinite period of
time, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. That will be the order and direction.
Mr. Penha. Sir, may I just make two observations, if I may, Mr.
Chairman ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Mr. Penha. Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate it. Thank -you very
much.
First of all, I would appreciate deeply if this committee in some way
or another could instruct, request or direct the United States Marshal
to subpena the mimeograph machine in my home. It would further
decrease that much more propaganda that the party would put out.
Otherwise I am powerless. I will have to turn it over to them if they
demand it.
Another thing that I would like to raise is that during the course
of these hearings, in my himible opinion, although I know you gentle-
men are doing a tremendous job, one that is subject to harassment and
a lot of sacrifice, I think this committee deserves not only my con-
gratulations but the country's. I do not know of any committee or any
subcommittee in the entire Congress that can match it. I am verv
proud of each and every one of you that I have been associated with
since January and subsequently, since I came here.
I also would like to at this time speak in reference to the Federal
Bureau of Investigation.
They are what you might call my employers. They, I believe, merit
the highest praise that any possible human being can give. Other than
this committee, I do not know of any organization that can match or
in any way compete in this fight against communism. Many Ameri-
cans can go to bed at night, sleeping in peace, because its agents have
fulfilled their jobs very well. They have treated me very, very well.
I have learned much from them. I have respected them. I think in
the person of J. Edgar Hoover and all of his agents — and I would not
like to mention any of them for fear of leaving any one out, that they
are very deserving, every single one of them.
2402 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES m THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Lastly, and I do not know if I am out of order — if I am, please
correct me — but through my experiences in the party I feel that in
some of the laws there are some loopholes. I am sure you gentlemen
are aware of that, but the suggestions I have here are based on party
experience.
I would like to propose that either I would turn them over or I would
read them, one way or the other.
Mr. Arens. You, of course, have discussed each one of these with us
in consultations, Mr. Penha ?
Mr. Penha. Yes.
Mr. Arens. I suggest for purposes of the public record you might
quickly allude to each of several of them. We have been most grateful
to you for your suggestions, observations, and comments on that score
in private consultations. Would you just proceed for a few minutes,
and touch on them for the public record ?
Mr. Penha. Yes, I will. Then that will conclude my talk.
Mr. Arens. Thank you.
Mr. Penha. It should be considered an offense for anyone who
should sign the loyalty oath, or subsequently has resigned from the
Communist Party, that is, on that day or the day before, and subse-
quently is readmitted into the party the following day after he signs —
a practice in the party. That should be deemed an offense.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, I wonder if you, in view of the time element,
could summarize in just a second or two the general nature of your
suggestions, all of which we have in our files and will give careful con-
sideration to.
Mr. Penha. All right sir. One is in reference not only to false
names, but relative to educational and occupational background in
applications, such as in the case as we saw yesterday on Schwartz. I
think there is a loophole there, because colonizers utilize that.
I think our immigration officials should be in foreign countries at
the point of origin, where under our quota system an immigrant wants
to come into this countrry, that officer should know something about
his background. That is another method of the party getting people
in here.
Mr. Arens. You have seen, and we have discussed with you the prin-
cipal provisions of H. R. 9937, have we not, Mr. Penha ?
Mr. Penha. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Wliat are your observations on that bill, on the basis
of your background and experience ?
Mr. Penha. 1 think it is excellent. All I can say, sir, is that I wish
that every American would write in to his Congressman demanding,
not requesting, but demanding that every single section be inserted,
and that it become law. It is one of the key elements that we need in
order to airtight the Communist conspiracy network.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Penha, I regret to be obliged to conclude with you
here, but as you know, we are pressed for time. On behalf
of the staff we do want to publicly as we have privately, express our
deep appreciation to you, our admiration, for the work which you have
done, not alone in connection with this committee, but basically, to
serve your Nation.
That will conclude the staff interrogation, if you please, Mr. Chair-
man.
COMMUlSriST activities: IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2403
Mr. Doyle. Thank you again, Mr. Peiiha. And your recommenda-
tions on legislation are especially appropriate because of your experi-
ence, and of course, under the law, and our charter, we are duty bound
to make a study and an investigation of every possible improvement in
Federal legislation in the field of subversive activities.
So we know you will continue to give the benefit of your knowledge
in this field to our staff and our committee.
Thank you and best wishes to your family as well as to you.
Mr. Penha. Thank you very kindly, Congressman. You have been
a tremendous help.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Arens, while I continue the subpena of this wit-
ness in effect to an indefinite period, I meant to announce yesterday,
that we are also continuing for an indefinite period the subpena of Mrs.
Foster, who testified yesterday as a former FBI agent, and so that will
be the order; that that subpena also be continued in full force and
effect for an indefinite period.
Do you have your next witness ?
Mr. Arens. If you please, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Roj^ Rogerson.
Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad-
ministers an oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. Islv. liogerson, if you please, raise your right hand and
be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Rogerson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF SOY ROGEESON, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ALLAN R. ROSENBERG
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Rogerson. My name is Roy Rogerson. My address is 41 Syca-
more Street, New Bedford, Massachusetts.
Mr. Arens. Your occupation? I don't believe we got that, please,
sir.
Mr. Rogerson. I work in the Morse Twist Drill and my occupation
is a pickler.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Rogerson, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Rogerson. That is right.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Rogerson. I am.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Mr. Rosenberg. Allan R. Rosenberg, 209 Washington Street,
Boston.
Mr. Arens. IMr. Rogerpon, are you an officer in UE Local 277?
Mr. Rogerson. I am not.
]\Ir. Arens. Have you ever been an officer in UE Local 277?
Mr. Rogerson. Not that I recall.
Mr. Arens. Have you been active in UE Local 277 ?
Mr. Rogerson. As of late ? Wliat do you mean by "active" ?
Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the local ?
2404 ooMMUNiST AcnvrriES m the new England area
Mr. EoGERSON. I am a member of Local 277.
Mr. Aeens. How long have you been in Local 277 ?
Mr. RoGERSON. Since its inception. I believe it is in 1941. I am not
sure of the date.
Mr. Arens. Have you held any post or office in UE?
Mr. RoGERSON. I believe I was an executive board member a num-
ber of years ago.
Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. RoGERsON. I take my privileges of the first amendment — first
and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Rogekson. I take my privileges on the first and fifth amend-
ments.
Mr. Arens. The gentleman who preceded you to the witness stand,
Armando Penha, testified under oatli that he knew you as a member
of the Coninmnist Party and cited a number of your activities in the
Communist Party. We should like to give you an opportunity now
to deny those allegations about yourself while 3'ou are under oath.
Do you care to avail yourself of tliat opportunity ?
Mr. Rogerson. I take my privileges on the first and fifth amend-
ments.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever run for public office ?
Mr. RoGERSON. First and fifth amendments. I decline to answer.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a leader in the Progressive Party in
this vicinity?
Mr. RoGERSON. I decline to answer ; same grounds.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con-
clude the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. General Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. I have one question. Witness.
Did you ever attend any meeting of UE members at the time you
were a member of UE which meeting was made up of members of UE
known to you to be Communists, in order to caucus as to what you
would do at the UE election? In other words, did you ever par-
ticipate in a caucus of UE members, who were known to you to be
Communists ?
Mr. Rogerson. The members of Local 277 which I belong to, run
their union. The final decisions are theirs.
Mr. Doyle. But did you attend a caucus of members of the UE
known to you to be Communists?
Mr. Rogerson. That question is too vague to answer.
Mr. Doyle. It is not very vague.
Mr. Rogerson. Because I am a member of Local 277, 1 meet with
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Mr. Rogerson. I am a member of Local 277, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Yes. Did you meet in a caucus of members of Local
277 known to you to be Communists in order to discuss and determine
what the union should do? Now, that is not vague or ambiguous.
Even your lawyer will tell you that,
(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Rogerson. It is too vague and I refuse to answer it, and I will
take my privileges and also T will use the Watkins amendment
COMMUNUST ACTrVTTIES IN THE XEW EXGLAND AREA 2405
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. RoGERSON (continuing) . — decision. I am sorry.
Mr. Doyle. That is all for the witness.
Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman will be
Philip Westley Lef avour.
Please come forward.
Mr. Doyle. Will you please raise your right hand and be sworn '?
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Lefavour. I do.
TESTIMONY OF PHILIP W. LEFAVOUR/ ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ALLAN R. ROSENBERG
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation.
Mr. Lefavoue. Philip Lefavour, 37 South Terrace Street, Beverly,
Massachusetts. Occupation, a machinist.
Mr. Arens. AVliere are you employed ?
Mr. Lefavour. United Shoe IMachinery Corporation.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities ?
JSIr. Lefavour. I am,
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Lefavour. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Mr. Rosenberg. Allan R. Rosenberg, 209 Washington Street,
Boston.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Lefavour, are you now or have you ever been a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Lefavour. Mr. Director, I think that is an invasion of my
rights of association, guaranteed under the first amendment of the
Constitution, against any inquiry by yourself.
Mr. Arens. Is that the only reason that you
Mr. Lefavour. The relevancy of my associations to the subject mat-
ter that you are pursuing is decided in the Watkins case.
Mr. Arens. Is tliat the only reason you give 'i
Mr. Lefavour. First amendment and the Watkins case.
Mr. Arens. I should like to explain to you the pertinency of the
question.
The Communist Control Act of 1954 precludes certification by the
National Labor Relations Board of any organization which is found
by the Subversive Activities Control Board to be Communist-con-
trolled.
It is our information, sir, that you are and have been a member of
the Communist Party ; that you have been active in UE. If so, it is
pertinent to the inquiry of this committee to ascertain the facts, so that
this committee can go back to Washington, D. C, and appraise the op-
eration of the Communist Control Act of 1954, which is just now be-
ginning to get into operation administratively.
^ Voucher for witness fee signed "Philip W. Lefavour."
liiTTT^SS — pt. 3 9
2406 OOMMUNTST ACnVITIES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Now, sir, kindly answer the question.
Are you now or liave vou ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
]\Ir. Lefavour. I decline to answer that question for the reasons
stated.
Mr. Arejsts. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest
Mr. Lefavour. Plus — Just a moment, if you want to pursue it fur-
ther — plus the guarantees that I have under the fifth amendment
against giving you any information that may tend to expose me, de-
grade me, or any such things as are noted in the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Let us get that clear on this record. We are not trying
to expose you or degrade you. We are trying to get facts.
Do you honestly apprehend, sir, if you told this committee truth-
fully whether or not you are now or ever have been a member of the
Communist Party you would be supplying information which might
be used against you in a criminal proceeding ?
Mr. Lefavour. I am not apprehensive of furnishing any informa-
tion that would necessarily find me guilty of any crime because I have
committed no crime, but I am apprehensive of the use of some wit-
nesses that this committee can whip up that I cannot possibly meet,
causing me to go through expensive and bothersome litigation, wliich
I think satisfies the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Mr. DoYX,E. I direct you. Witness, to answer the question. It clearly
is pertinent and proper, even under the Watkins case.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Lefavour. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully decline on all grounds
that I have previously stated to the Director.
Mr. Arens. Give us your educational background, please, sir.
Mr. Lefavour. Primary schools, Somerset, Pawtucket, Rhode
Island ; Marlboro, Mass. ; Salem and Beverly, Mass. A year and a half
of high school in Beverly, trade school in Beverly, which is a voca-
tional school to train machinists, and Suffolk Law School.
Mr. Arens. You have an LL. B. degree in law, do you not?
Mr. Lefavour. I have.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, I should like to display to you a document.
It is entitled "Affidavit of Noncommunist Union Officer," signed
Philip W. Lefavour, filed pursuant to the National Labor Relations
Act.
"I am a responsible officer of the union named below. I am not a
member of the Communist Party or affiliated with such party. I do
not believe in, and I am not a member of nor do I support any organi-
zation that believes in or teaches, the overthrow of the United States
Government by force or by any illegal or unconstitutional methods.
United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America, UE Local
271, Philip W. Lefavour."
This is signed and sworn to before a Notary Public, February 9,
1951. Kindly look at that document, if you please, sir, and see if you
could not accommodate the Committee on Un-American Activities by
verifying the authenticity of your signature.
(Document handed to the witness.)
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
C0M]>.ajjsriST activitiies in the new England area 2407
Mr. Lefavour, Mr. Director, I will decline any comment, under the
Watkins — under the first and under the fifth, any comment whatso-
ever on that affidavit.
Mr. Arens. Did you tell the truth when you affixed your sig-
nature under oath to this affidavit ?
Mr. Lefavour. I decline for the same reasons.
Mr. Arens. Would you accommodate the Committee on Un-Ameri-
can Activities by giving us now, a copy of your signature, so there may
be a comparison with the exhibit which I have just displayed to you.
Mr. Lefavour. I don't believe that I am obliged to furnish even my
signature.
Mr. Arens. Were you under date of February 9, 1951, the day on
which you signed this document, a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Lefavour. I decline for all the reasons which I have previously
enumerated to discuss that affidavit in any of its respects.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the docu-
ment which I have just displayed to the witness be appropriately
marked and incorporated by reference in this record.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask : Is that affidavit sworn to ?
Mr. Arens. Oh, yes it is, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Before a Notary Public or someone equally qualified ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, Mr. Chairman,
Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked.
(Document marked "Lefavour Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Arens. Have you ever made a passport application ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Lefavour. Yes, I have, sir.
Mr. Arens. And when did you make a passport application ?
Mr. Lefavour. The closest I can give you would be the month. I
think it was in April.
Mr. Arens. What year, please, sir ?
Mr. Lefavour. 1951.
Mr. Arens. I should like to display to you now, if you please, sir,
a photostatic copy of your passport application, and see if you would
not be kind enough to accommodate the committee on Un-American
Activities by verifying the authenticity of your signature ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Lefavour. I will acknowledge that.
Mr. Doyle. You acknowledge that ? May we understand that you
say you would acknowledge that signature as yours ?
Mr. Lefavour. Yes, I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Mr. Arens. Where did you seek to go when you made this passport
application ?
Mr. Lefavour. When I made the passport application, I made it on
the knowledge that I had a trip that should have included six coun-
tries. That was the information tliat I got. The names of the six
countries were not given by me because they were not yet determined.
JNIr. Arens. What were those six countries you were going to go to ?
Mr. Lefavour. The only country I knew about at the time was that
we would go to France.
Mr. Arens. No, no. "\^niat were the six countries ?
Mr. Lefavour. That eventually were decided on ?
2408 OOMMXTNTST ACTIVrrTES IN THE NEW ENGL.\ND ARE'A
Mr. AnENS, Yes.
Mr. Lefavour. I believe they included France — I mean, that was
a tentative schedule— it wasn't fulfilled. France, Czechoslovakia,
Eussia, Poland, Italy, and England.
Mr. Arens. And for some reason or other, only France appears
on this passport application. Can you give us a word of explanation
on that ?
Mr. Lefavour. I have given it to you once and I will give it to you
again. I think if you listen carefully you will get the gist of it.
At the time I made application for the passport, the only knowl-
edge I had was that this trip was going to be arranged to include six
countries, although those countries had not been scheduled. I was to
go to France and from France they were to make arrangements with
some other country to take us. When we got there they were going^
to try to make arrangements with another country of our own selec-
tion to take us.
Mr. Arens. Did you know or learn, prior to the time of your de-
parture from the United States, that you were going to go into coun-
tries other than into France ?
Mr. Lefavour. Did I learn from the United States ?
Mr. Arens. No, sir. Did you learn? Did you acquire knowledge
prior to the time that you left the United States that you were, on
your trip, to go into countries other than France ?
Mr. Lefavour. I knew that I was going into countries other than
France, but I didn't know which countries.
Mr. Arens. Did you notify the State Department that you had to
revise your plans a little bit, that you decided not just to go to France?
Mr. Lefavour. That is not what I told the clerk when I filled out
the application. She wanted to laiow how I was going.
Mr. Arens. No. Let us stay right on the point here.
Mr. Lefavour. I am getting to your point, if you would like me to
clear it up.
Mr. Arens. Let us start over again. On your application that you
filed on April 16, 1951, with the State Department, you told them you
were going to take a little visit to France, didn't you ?
Mr. Lefavour. I did not.
Mr. Arens. It is on your application.
Mr. Lefavour. That was the only destination I knew for sure I was
going to go to. That was where I was going to land and start from.
Mr. Arens. That was the country to be visited, and you wrote down
"France" ; is that correct ?
Mr. Lefavour. That is right.
Mr. Arens. All right, sir. The next question is: "VVlien did you
learn you were going to visit some countries other than France?
Mr. Lefavout?. The specific countries I learned over in Paris, the
day after I arrived there.
Mr. Arens. When did you learn that you were going to visit some
country other than France?
Mr. Lefavour. Without knowing the identity of the country ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. Lefavour. I knew that at the time I had my passport.
Mr. Arens. Did you know it as of the time you filled out this ap-
plication ?
C'OMMUIsri)ST ACTIVrriES IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2409
Mr. Lefavour. Yes ; and I so instructed the clerk. She said : "What
countries?", and I said "I don't know."
(Document marked "Lefavour Exhibit No. 2," and retamed m Com-
mitt&G iiIgs I
Mr. Arens. Kindly tell this committee under whose auspices you
took this trip.
Mr. Lefavour. Do you mind if I refer to this note here?
Mr. Arens. Go right ahead.
Mr. Lefavour. The Committee to Survey Labor Conditions in
Europe.
Mr. Arens. Who asked you to go ?
Mr. Lefavour. I can tell you who he was, and he had some con-
nection with the committee. He was a local representative, but I don't
know just what his capacity was— a fellow by the name of McCarty.
Mr. Arens. Do you remember his first name ?
Mr. Lefavour. Kobert McCarty.
Mr. Arens. Did this [American] Committee to Survey Trade Union
Conditions in Europe pay your expenses?
Mr. Lefavour. I believe the committee paid for the round trip
ticket from New York to Paris. That was my understanding.
Mr. Arens. And by what route did you go ?
Mr. Lefavour. I went over by BOAC.
Mr. Arens. Who accompanied you on the trip ?
Mr. Lefavour. Nobody.
Mr. Arens. Who joined you when you arrived in Paris ?
Mr. Lefavour. The balance of a delegation who had gone over
either one or two days before me.
Mr. Arens. Did you recognize people in the delegation whom you
had known prior to the time of your arrival in Paris ?
Mr. Lefavour. The entire delegation were strangers to me. I had
never seen any of them.
Mr. Arens. Could you tell us the names of some of the people in
the delegation whom you met while you were in Paris?
Mr. Lefavour. I think I can remember some of them.
Mr. Arens. Was Irving Velson one of them ?
Mr. Lefavour. Irving Velson? I don't recall any such name on
that delegation.
Mr. Arens. All right, sir. When did you take this trip, the first
part of the trip, when you went by BOAC ?
Mr. Lefavour. It started the 23rd of April.
Mr. Arens. Tell us what arrangements were made after you got
to Paris for you to go on the next lap of your trip.
Mr. Lefavour. When I got to Paris the delegation sat down one
afternoon and laid out the tentative trip. This was agreeable with
the majority of them but not to myself, and that is where they decided
they would like to go to Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia, Italy, France
and England. That followed, I think the purpose that was announced
to me, that before I left, that we should go to three Marshall Plan
countries and three non-Marshall Plan countries for the sake of mak-
ing a comparison of the situation of the working people of these
countries.
Mr. Arens. Did you go with the delegation beyond Paris to
Czechoslovakia ?
2410 OOMMXTNIST ACTIVlTIEiS EST THE NEW EN^GLAND ARE'A
Mr. Lefavour. I went to Czechoslovakia and I went to Russia,
and there I left the delegation and I came back by myself.
Mr. Arexs. Who paid your expenses from Paris to Czechoslovakia ?
Mr. Lefavour. I am only guessing at this, but I understand that
when we were in France, the French union footed the bill. When we
were in Czechoslovakia, the Czechoslovakian union footed the bill, and
likewise in the subsequent countries. The unions in the respective
countries paid the expenses.
Mr. Arens. Did you notify the American Embassy in Paris that
you were going to travel from France, behind the Iron Curtain, into
Czechoslovakia ?
Mr. Lefavour. I don't believe that it is necessary, to answer your
question.
Mr. Arens. I didn't understand.
Mr. Lefavour. To answer your question, we didn't do it. At least, I
didn't do it, because the restricted places of travel were enumerated on
the passport, and I think the only restrictions I can remember of was —
might have been — was it Bulgaria at the time ?
Mr. Arens. How many people were in the delegation in Paris, ap-
proximately ?
Mr. Lefavour. I believe I can give you the exact number. I think it
was eighteen, including myself.
Mr. Arens. Wlio paid your expenses when you arrived in Moscow ?
Mr. Lefavour. The AES. It is the Soviet trade unions.
Mr. Arens. Did the Soviet trade union people give you money,
rubles ?
Mr. Lefavour. No, they didn't.
Mr. Arens. Where did they put you up ?
Mr. Lefavour. I can get this confused with the hotel in Czechoslo-
vakia, the two hotels — one was the Imperial and one was the National.
I don't remember just which was which.
Mr. Arens. Did ^'^ou join in a statement or statements issued by this
trade union delegation while you were in Moscow ?
Mr. Lefavour. Did I join in a statement?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lefavour. Of what nature — what are you talking about?
Mr. Arens. Any statement, sir, a statement by the delegation.
Mr. Lefavour. Do you mean like to the Russian Radio or Russian
press ?
Mr. Arens. To the world, from Moscow.
Mr. Lefavour. No.
Mr. Arens. Was a statement issued from Moscow by the delegation ?
Mr. Lefavour. That I don't know. I left — well, I left there before
they were half way through wdth their trip. I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Did you survey the trade union conditions in Soviet
Russia ?
Mr. Lefavour. You've read this book, haven't you ?
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ?
Mr. Lefavour. Yes. But so that you will understand my answer
I am going to recall to you in this book, to the extent of my survey it
was on the theory
Mr. Arens. Was on what ?
Mr. Lefavour. On the theory of their setup. I didn't have enough
time to go around there to the factories and make an extensive visit.
coAuxnnsTiST activities in the new engk\nd area 2411
Mr. Arens. You went all the way to Moscow to visit the factories
and then after you got there you didn't have time to visit them; is
that correct ?
Mr. Lefavotjr. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, while you were in Moscow were you a member
of the Communist Party during this period ?
Mr. Lefavour. Mr. Director, this will be the third or fourth time
that I have given you a direct answer on this type of question. It was
the first question you asked me : "Am I now or have I ever been ?" and
I am going to decline now on the same grounds I declined the first
time.
Mr. Arens. Did you while you were in Moscow have time to ask
them over there to show you the slave labor camps ?
Mr. Lefavour. That question was asked, but of course even in your
book I don't believe there would be any slave labor camps within
the city limits of Moscow. And since I didn't have time to leave there,
I didn't establish by myself, or at least settled for the answer they
gave us. Of course, they denied the existence of any slave labor camps.
Mr. Arens. They said there were no slave labor camps ?
Mr. Lefavour. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. It is all American propaganda ?
Mr. Lefavour. That was their version, yes.
Mr. Arens. Did you believe them ?
Mr. Lefavour. They gave an explanation. I said, "You must do
something, you know, with the people that you can't keep in line."
They said, "We have correctional institutions the same as you have
jails in the United States." Now, let me give you
Mr. Arens. Did you ask them about the 20,000,000 people they
have shot down, just mowed down like they were wheat in Kansas, in
the course of the ascendancy of this awful thing called communism
in Soviet Russia ? Did you ask them about that ?
Mr. Lefavour. I didn't ask them about that.
Mr. Arens. That was not within the purview of your inquiry ?
Mr. Lefavour. Was that the figure— 20,000,000 ?
Mr. Arens. Approximately sir.
lyir. Lefavour. But it has gone up a lot since, I unagine ?
Mr. Arens. Who in this delegation, to your certain knowledge,
were members of the Communist conspiracy, who went on this trip ?
Mr. Lefavour. To my certain knowledge, being in a delegation of
entire strangers to me, if I told you any name at all I think I would
be violating the principles of fair play of this committee. I have no
knowledge of any of them.
Mr. Arens. I suggest you may want to read the hearings of this
committee on that. About half of them have been identified, under
oath, by live witnesses, as members of the Communist conspiracy.
Now, sir ; did you return by yourself from Moscow ?
Mr. Lefavour. I did.
Mr. Arens. And after you returned to the United States, did you
join with the others in any kind of a statement respecting the condi-
tions of the trade unions in Soviet Russia and in the Iron Curtain
countries ?
Mr. Lefavour. No. The only statement I made was, I made my
own report, and I believe that report, as far as I know, was never
2412 OOMMUXiST ACTR^ITIES EX THE XEW EXGK.\ND AREA
collaborated in by the rest. Whether they joined in this one or not,
I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Did you subsequently report to the State Department
that, although when you left the United States you told them that you
were just going to visit as a tourist in France, you happened to wind
up in Moscow ?
Mr. Lefavoub. I think that formality was taken care of when I
landed at Idlewild Airport.
Mr. Arens. ^Yhat happened to your passport when you landed at
Idlewild Airport ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Lefavour. When I landed at Idlewild Airport, I don't know
the name of the officer, but he checked where I had been.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. General Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. I have just two brief questions.
Mr. Lefavour. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. How long were you in Moscow or in Russia ?
Mr. Lefavour. Six days, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Did you fly back to the United States ?
Mr. Lefavour. I flew — not directly. Do you mind a little explana-
tion of why I left ?
Mr. Doyle. I wondered if you came by plane or by boat?
Mr. Lefavour. Oh, plane.
Mr. Doyle. All the way ?
Mr. Lefavour. All the way, yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. The witness is excused. Thank you.
Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be
Mr. Benning Maskiewicz.
Mr. Lefavour. Mr. Chairman, would you care for a copy of the
report I made ?
Mr. Doyle. N"o ; we have several copies of it.
Mr. Arens. Benning Maskiewicz, please come forward. Kindly
stand while the chairman administers an oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. Will you please raise your right hand ?
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF BENNING ^ MASKIEWICZ
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. Maskiewicz. I am Benning Maskiewicz
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I am not certain, and my recollection
does not serve me accurately, whether I requested the chair to order
the documents which we had been using with the preceding witnesses
to be appropriately marked and incorporated by reference in the
record. If I have not asked that and the Chair has not ordered, I
* Voucher for witness fee signed "Benny" Maskiewicz.
coMivnjisriST activittes est the new England area 2413
would suggest that they be entered according to their introduction.
Mr. Doyle. They will be so marked and incorporated.
(The documents referred to were filed for the record.)
Mr. Aeens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation.
Mr. Maskte\vicz. I am Benning Maskiewicz. I live at 332 West
45th Street, New York City.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Maskiewicz, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Right.
Mr. Akens. You do not have counsel?
Mr. Maskiewicz. No.
Mr. Arens. You know under the rules of this committee, you have
the privilege of counsel.
Mr. Maskiewicz. That is right.
Mr. Arens. What other names have you used besides "Maskiewicz" ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Benning Maskiewicz.
Mr. Arens. How do you spell it, please?
Mr. Maskieavicz. M-a-s-k-i-e-w-i-c-z.
Mr. Arens. Is that B-e-n-n-i-n-g?
Mr. Maskiewicz. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Maskiewicz, where are j^ou employed?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I work in a restaurant.
Mr. Arens. Where?
Mr. Maskiewicz. 22d Street and 4th Avenue, in New York.
Mr. Arens. And where were you born?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I was born in White Russia, as is tliis country
today, at the time it was Tzar Nicholas
Mr. Arens. When did you come to the United States?
Mr. Maskiewicz. 1895.
Mr. Arens. Excuse me — when did jou come to the United States?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I came same time the Titanic sunk. It was 1912.
Mr. Arens. Are you a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Maskiewicz. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever applied
Mr. Doyle. What is your answer?
Mr. Maskiewicz, No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever applied for naturalization?
Mr. Maskiewicz. No, not yet.
Mr. Kearney. Not yet? How long does it take you to apply?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I have been here only 46 years, gentlemans.
Mr. Kearney. You have been pretty busy.
Mr. Maskiewicz. 46 years.
Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. jNIaskiewicz. What do you want me to say, gentlemens?
Mr. Arens. Just tell us the truth.
Mr. Maskiewicz. I won't answer, gentlemans, I am going to answer
all questions for myself, but I not going to answer no questions about
any individual or individual group.
Now, I use my constitutional right of the first amendment.
Mr. Arens. Have you another one you want to use ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Yes, and the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. The fifth amendment ?
2414 OOMJVrUNTST activities IX THE NEW ENGLl^ND AREA
Mr. Maskiewicz. That is right.
Mr. Arens, Did you used to live in New Hampshire, Mr. Maskie-
wicz?
Mr. Maskiewicz. That is rip;ht.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you live in New Hamp-
shire ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I live in New Hampshire forty years.
Mr. Arens. Where did you live in New Hampshire ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Oh, well, my address was Nashua and Hudson.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a lady by the name of Carol Foster, Mrs.
Carol Foster ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Well, I even decline to answer.
Mr. Arens. I don't think she would care if you told us you know
her.
Mr. Maskiewicz. I don't care if she knows it too. Why I care?
Mr. Arens. She took an oath here yesterday and said while she was
an undercover agent in the Communist Party at the behest of the Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation she knew you as a Communist. Was
she telling the truth or was she in error ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Why I know if she tell the truth or she lie ? It
is not my business.
Mr. Arens. Did she lie ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. No. I don't say. I only say I use my right, con-
stitutional right of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you run an ice house in New Hampshire?
Mr. Maskiewicz. That is right ; yes.
Mr. Arens. Did you have the name around the community of
"Benny the Iceman"?
Mr. Maskiewicz. That is right. They used to call me Benny the
Iceman — everybody.
Mr. Arens. Did they used to call you that in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. My business was private business in Hudson, New
Hampshire.
Mr. Arens. We don't want to know about your private business ; we
just want to know about your business in the Communist Party.
Mr. ]\Iaskiewicz. That was the name of my business — Benny the
Ice — Ben's Ice, That was the sign of my trucks. That is why they
call me "Benny, the Iceman." That is the way then it originates.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. DoTLE. General Kearney, have you any questions ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes, I have. I have not a question, but I have an
observation to make of this witness, the same as I had of the other
witness ; that I am astonished, astounded at this character, who comes
in and claims the protection of the United States Constitution. He
has lived here for some forty years.
Mr. Maskiewicz. 46.
Mr. Kearney. He is not a citizen of the United States, and I would
recommend that his case be turned over to the immigration authorities
for immediate action.
Mr. DoYT.E. I am sure we will all join you in that wlien we get back
to Washinsfton.
COMJVrUlSn'ST ACTIVITIEiS m THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2415
Why haven't you applied for your American citizenship in over
forty years ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Gentlemens, this is the truth. This answer a
truth answer which I will give you.
Mr. Doyle. All right ; tell the truth, then.
Mr. Maskiewicz. All right. I work. I was busy with my work all
the time, and raising my family, and that is all. I don't run for no
office. I don't participate in any political outlooks; so I just work,
Mr. Doyle. You knew you could apply for citizenship by applica-
tion, didn't you ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Any law in the Constitution of the United States
you are forced to be a citizen or you got a right to live as American ?
Mr. Doyle. How long have you lived in Boston ?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I never lived in Boston.
Mr. Doyle. How far is the courthouse from your home in New
York City?
Mr. Maskiewicz. Across the street, maybe.
Mr. Doyle. You were so busy raising a family and working that you
couldn't walk across the street, is that right?
Mr. Maskiewicz. It costs $25-$30 or more.
Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party take any of your time?
Mr. Maskiewicz. I worked in private industry. I wish to be
Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party consume so much of your
time as to preclude you from walking across the street to the court-
house ?
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I see no reason taking the time
Mr. Maskiewicz. Fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. — taking the time of this committee with this wit-
ness here.
Mr. Doyle. Witness, let me make this clear. You understand, do
you, that we are going to recommend that you be deported — that is
clear to you, isn't it.
Mr. Maskie-wt:cz. Gentlemans, it is up to you.
Mr. Doyle. You had no business coming to our country and living
here for 46 years and making a living off us without becoming an
American citizen.
Mr. Maskiewicz. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Doyle. And being a Communist in the meantime. You ought
to be ashamed of yourself.
Mr. Maskiewicz. Mr. Chairman — so Polaski have no business to
come to this country, But they not welcome here not they — Czecho-
slovakia and Polaski.
Mr. Kearney. I have heard enough.
Mr. Doyle. You are excused.
Mr. Arens. The next witness is Mr. John Russo. Kindly come for-
ward while the chairman administers the oath to you.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Russo. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Take the witness chair, please.
2416 ooMJvrujsrrsT AcrrvTriES rx the new engk\nd area
TESTIMONY OF JOHN EUSSO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, GABRIEL
KANTROVITZ
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Eusso. I am John Russo. I live at 5 Wellington Court, and I
am a lithographer by occupation.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing here today, Mr. Russo, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Russo. I am.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Russo. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself.
Mr. Kantrovitz. Gabriel Kantrovitz, 294 Washington Street,
Boston.
Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education, please, sir.
Mr. Russo. I went to grade school and 3 years of high school in
Providence, R. I.
Mr. Arens. I didn't get your present occupation. There was a
litle confusion here.
Mr. Russo. Lithographer.
Mr. Arens. ^Yhere are you employed ?
Mr. Russo. At the Colitho Company, in Boston.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed there ?
Mr. Russo. Approximately 2 years.
Mr. xiitENS. Where were you employed immediately prior to your
present employment ?
Mr. Russo. At the Boston Solvic Air Division Company, in Boston.
Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Russo. Gentlemen, I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the following grounds —
Mr. Arens. You are reading now from a prepared statement ?
Mr. Russo. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Wlio prepared the statement ?
Mr. Russo. Let me read the statement first.
Mr. Arens. Tell us first who prepared the statement.
Mr. Russo. I prepared the statement with the help of my counsel.
Mr. Arens. Thank you. Proceed to read the statement.
Mr. Russo. The first reason, because the resolution creating this
committee is unconstitutional and vague, secondly, the question is not
pertinent to any subject within the committee's jurisdiction as spelled
out in the Watkins decision. Third, this is an investigation which is
exposure for exposure's sake. Fourth, because it abridges my right
under the first amendment, that it abridges my right to free and politi-
cal associations, and so forth.
Fifth, an answer to the question would be, and have a reasonable
tendency to incriminate me, despite my innocence.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Russo. Gentlemen, for the reasons mentioned previously I de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a person by the name of Armando Penha ?
COMlMUlSniST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW EXGLAXD AREA 2417
Mr. Kusso. Gentlemen, for the reasons previously mentioned I de-
cline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Armando Penlia testified here in the course of the last
day or two that while he was an undercover agent in the Communist
Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, he knew
you as district youth leader of Communist Party activities and as a
member of the Communist Party in this area.
Was Armando Penha telling tlie truth or was he in error ?
Mr. Russo. I decline to answer this question, gentlemen, for the
reasons mentioned previously.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. DoTLE. The witness is excused. Thank you.
Mr. Arens. Mr. John Hovan, kindly come forward.
Please remain standing while the chairman administers the oath to
you.
Mr. DoYLE. Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. HovAN. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Please take the witness chair.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN G. HOVAN,^ ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
WILLIAM P. HOMANS, JR.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc-
cupation.
Mr. HovAN. My name is Jolin Hovan. I live in Providence, R. I.
I am a chemical worker.
Mr. Arens. Where, please ?
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request that I don't have
to discuss that.
Mr. Arens. You are employed at the Geigy Chemical Corp., are
you not, sir ?
Mr. Hovan. May I consult counsel ?
(The witness conferred w^ith his counsel.)
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, I do work at the Geigy Chemical Corp.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American
Activities ?
Mr. HovAN. I am, sir.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel?
Mr. HovAN. I am, sir.
Mr, Arens. Counsel, kindly identif;\^ yourself.
Mr. HoMANs. My name is William P. Homans, Jr. I have offices
at 1 Court Street, in Boston, Massachusetts.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been employed in the textile industry ?
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, may I before answering that question
make a few remarks ?
This question of where one works — the way the questions are put —
I was subpenaed to appear 3-esterday, so I attended yesterday's hear-
ing. The question makes it appear that where one works is something
sinister, or
^ Voucher for witness fee signed "Jolin G. Hovan."
2418 OOMMUNTST ACTIVITIES ES^ THE NEW ENGLAND AREA
Mr. Arens. You know that isn't so. We are asking you where you
work-
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, may I proceed with
Mr. Arexs. — because you have been identified as a colonizer for the
Communist Party. That is the sole and exclusive reason why you have
been subpenaed before this committee.
Mr. Doyle. I would like to make a statement to the witness, please.
Mr. HovAN. May I proceed, please
Mr. DoTLE. It makes it appear that that industry may have one or
two or one or two dozen Communists in it. That is what we are inter-
ested in. That is the extent to which identified Communists are in-
filtrating industry in this country, including labor unions. Maybe that
is your case — I don't know.
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, I have worked for a living all my life,
since the age of 15.
Mr. Doyle. Good.
Mr. HovAN. The only reason I have ever had to work anywhere is
because I wanted to live decently.
Mr. DoYLE. Good.
Mr. HovAN. And the only way I can do it is, honestly, by working
for a living.
Mr. Arens. Then be honest with this committee and tell whether or
not you have ever been a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that on my constitu-
tional privilege under the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. HovAN. I decline, on the previously stated grounds.
Mr. Arens. Did you fight in Spain in the Abraham Lincoln
Brigade ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, could I have explained to me what that
has to do with the present
Mr. Arens. That would help identify you as a member of the Com-
munist conspiracy, and part of the international Communist Party,
because the Abraham Lincoln Brigade was controlled lock, stock, and
barrel by the Communist conspiracy, and fought in Spain at the behest
of the Communist operation.
Now, j)lease, sir, tell us whether or not you participated in the
Spanish Civil War with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. HovAN. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that as not being
pertinent to the inquiry.
Mr. Arens. Now, sir, please tell us where you were born.
Mr. HovAN. I was born at Callahan, Florida.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude
the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. I have one question. Witness.
I understood you to say just a minute ago that you had to work for
a living ever since you were fifteen ; is that correct ?
Mr. PIovAN. That is correct.
COMlVrUNTIlST ACTIVITTEiS IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA 2419
Mr. Doyle. Were you working on a salary while you were over in
Spain fighting for two or three years ? Were you paid a salary over
there to support your family ?
Mr. HovAN. May I consult counsel, please ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. HovAN. I decline to answer questions on that subject, since I
had declined to discuss the question.
Mr. Doyle. I thought probably that would not be in the line of sup-
porting your family, fighting over in Spain. That is why I asked
you that question.
Mr. HovAN. I w^as single at the time, sir.
Mr. Doyle. You are excused.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in view of the intention of the com-
mittee to recess shortly, because of its very heavy schedule, we do not
propose to call any other witnesses.
Now there are certain persons who are presently under subpena,
and I respectfully suggest that they be told that in view of the fact
that they are under subpena, they are entitled to witness fees and the
like.
Mr. Bonora of our staff will be over here to my right in a few
moments and be glad to accommodate those persons who will come
forward with their subpenaes, who have not been heard.
Mr. Kearney. Do you want to continue them under subpena?
Mr. Arens. I do not think it is necessary now, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. May I say clearly to those who have been subpenaed
and are in the courtroom and have not been called, we regret that
you have not, but on account of the weather, both here and at Wash-
ington and the necessity for two of our committee members to return
to Washington in order to be in Congress yesterday, we have been
delayed in our work.
We appreciate your patience in being here, and as you leave the
courtroom, please sign your vouchers so you can be paid your legal
fees.
Before I make a few brief remarks, I am going to call on the very
disinguished American, General Pat Kearney.
May I ask please, the cooperation of every person in the room,
that you not leave the room until we dismiss the committee.
We will be out of here in just a few minutes, but I do hope and
expect you will favor us with your presence until we dismiss this
meeting.
Mr. Ivearney. I am not going to make any statement, Mr. Chair-
man concerning the hearings, for the reason I understand we are
going to do that to the press afterwards, but I do want to say this:
that I appreciate the courtesy extended to the committee by the United
States Marshal and his deputies, the Federal Judges for the District
Court of the United States, the courtesy of the press, and all others
connected with this hearing.
It is a revelation not only to come to Boston to present the wit-
nesses in the light we have, and to show just exactly what is going
on in this Communist conspiracy, but it is also a pleasure to thank
those who have treated us so courteously while we were in the City of
Boston this week.
2420 OOMMTINTST ACTrVTriES IX THE ISTEW EIS'GLAND AREA
Mr. Doyle. I have made just a few notes here which I will refer
to in my brief statement on behalf of the conmiittee.
First, I wish to call your attention to the fact which has not yet
been emphasized in these hearings, that this subcommittee here in
Boston these four days is a subcommittee of a committee of nine.
This House Un-American Activities Committee is not a special com-
mittee. It is a standing committee of the House of Representa-
tives. It has been a standing, regularly qualified conunittee approved
unanimously by the House of Representatives on many occasions ever
since 1946. I will not take time to read the charter. It was adopted
in 1946 and under that charter we are here, duly qualified, and follow-
ing our legal requirements.
I wish further to say : that this committee knew in advance that on
account of lack of time here in Boston these hearings would be
necessarily brief. We could not possibly cover the extent of the
Communist operations in this New England area. But we believe we
had knowledge, and vre now have more knowledge from all reliable
sources, of considerable extensive Communist Party subversive ac-
tivities in the New England area, amounting to several hundred
identified members in the Communist Party in the New England
area. If we had time, therefore, we could call up to around 300
identified Communists in this area. To do so would have taken weeks
of hearings, instead of just a few days. Furthermore, it would re-
quire assigiunent of our staff to this area, whereas they have obliga-
tions in other areas also.
In the few days that we have been here, we believe we have had a
fair sampling of several phases of Communist subversive operations
in this area.
Wliat then has been accomplished, in our judgment, as a result of
these hearings ? These are some of the accomplishments :
In the first place, we have seen repetition here in the New
England area, of a pattern of Communist activities and technic[ues
which verifies and confirms the very same pattern of secret and habitu-
ally deceitful and subversive activities and tactics throughout our
Nation.
We also have brought forth reliable evidence proving that there is
in this highly sensitive and important industrial area a Communist
Party activity which should be paid more attention by the public
officials, both municipal and statewide, in cooperation with the Fed-
eral officials.
More specifically, there has been developed here new and convincing
evidence regarding the existing loopholes in the Foreign Agents Regis-
tration Act, and other existing legislation, designed to identify and
stem the flood of Communist propaganda that is daily reaching the
shores of our Nation from Soviet Russia, and from other people,
specifically doing it in cooperation with the Soviet Communist con-
trol of the Soviet Republic in this cold war.
And we wish to emphasize that this Communist subversive activity
right here in the New England area and throughout our Nation is
part of the cold war — it is not just merely propaganda — it is part of
the cold war. There are no bullets being fired, but it is war neverthe-
less.
COMIMUISri&T ACTIVrTTES EST THE NEW EOSPGLAND AREA 2421
There has also been revealed further reliable factual Communist
underground strategy and tactics penetrating entirely legitimate and
loyal organizations, church groups, labor groups, youth groups,
schools, lodges, and public offices.
There has also been revealed further definite information respect-
ing efforts of the Communist conspiracy to penetrate certain vital in-
dustries by way of colonization by Communists, many of whom hold
high decrees in education, bachelor of science and engineers; and
yet, fulfilling their Communist Party dedication, they take menial
jobs, at far less salaries in sensitive industries in order to carry out
Communist Party directives, than they could earn at the profession for
which they are especially equipped and trained.
We will take back to Washington for consideration by the Con-
gress all the factual material here gained in connection with our
study and consideration for the enactment of legislation.
There is, however, a collateral result, which is very valuable and
continuing, as a result of these hearings, which I believe will have
a salutary and important effect on this entire geographical area. This
should be a daily reminder for you folks who have the pleasure, privi-
lege, and inspiration of living in this area, of the continuous Com-
munist Party subversive threat, both day and night, not merely as a
philosophical concept, but as a menacing dynamic force of intrigue and
subversion, operating as part of the Soviet cold war against the Ameri-
can way of life, which was, in fact, born right here within a mile of
this building.
We wish to thank, therefore, these two American citizens who gave
up commensurate income and went to work for the FBI at a mere
pittance in order to serve their country. We thank them for their
helpfulness to us.
Then, too, we wish to thank Federal Judge Francis Ford, the dis-
tinguished Federal Judge who occupies this courtroom and courteously
turned it over to us. We thank United States Marshal Kalph Gray
and all his most capable and thoughtful and helpful deputies. We
thank, of coui-se. Captain Daniel I. Murphy, Director of the Subvei-sive
Activities Section of the Department of Public Safety of this great
commonwealth, and his very able staff, for helping our staff with these
hearing's.
And then, too, I want to thank the listeners in the courtroom for
their courteous attention.
And finally, I would like to express our unanimous and sincere
thanks to all members of the press, radio, and television profession
and fraternity. We noticed the thoroughness, accuracy and the very
constructive way in which you have reported and shown these
hearings.
We want to thank, too, the large number of people who have written
to us or who have sent us orally their expressions of appreciation for
what the United States Congress is trying to do in this difficult field.
Have you anything else, Mr. Arens ?
Mr. Ajiens. No ; thank you, Mr. Chairman.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 58 a. m., Friday, March 21, 1958, the subcom-
mittee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.)
24777—58 10
INDEX
Individuals
Page
Abber, Edith 2110, 2114, 2115
Amado, Dan 2103, 2274
Amter, Israel 2235
Appel, Samuel 2106,
2139-2156 (testimony), 2395
Asher, Emil 2400
Audette, Ernie 2105, 2106
Bandarra, John 2276
Barrv, Walter 2272, 2281, 2390
Barshak, Edward (J.) 2321
Bart, Philip 2272
Beebe, Charles C 2295, 2299, 2305, 2319
Begun, Isidore 2234
Bellefeuille, Jean 2393
Berland, Oscar 2129
Berlin, Gerald A 2139, 2340
Bineau, Phil 2293, 2302, 2400
Biturnis, Mike 2291
Blum, Emanuel (Manny) 2117, 2301, 2305
Blum, Vera (Mrs. Emanuel Blum) 2301
Bond, Nathaniel ("Joe") 2129
Botelho, Roland 2278, 2279, 2280
Boudin, Leonard B 2190,2191,2192,2201
Bradley, Fred 2302
Braz, James . 2275
Breen, Eileen 2251, 2252, 2400
Brown, Peter Campbell 2210
Budenz, Louis 2279, 2280
Burlak, Anne. ( See Timpson, Anne. )
Carlson, Carl 2400
Carlson, Mary (W.) (Mrs. Carl Carlson) 2394,2400
Carreau, Alphedge 2280
Cerasoli, Moe 2301, 2302
Cerasoli, Virginia (Mrs. Moe CerasoU) 2301,2302
Chase, Barbara (Mrs. Oliver Chase) 2298
Chase, Charles 2297, 2298
Chase, Dorothy (Mrs. Charles Chase) 2298
Chase, Elba. ( See Nelson, Elba Chase. )
Chase, Homer B 2298,2319,2356-2362 (testimony)
Chase, Joseph K 2112, 2381-2386 (testimony)
Chase, Oliver 2298
Chase, Rachel (Mrs. Homer Chase) 2298
Childs, Charles Benson 2339
Clark, Joy. (^Sfee Figueiredo, Joy.)
Clark, Margot 2301
Cohen, Abe 2401
Coito, Manuel 2104, 2274
Collier, Frank 2302
Cordeiro, John 2276, 2396
Cordeiro, Manuel, Jr 2241-2246 (testimony)
Cropper, Tillie 2269, 2276, 2280
Crowley. Francis X. T 2263
Cvetie, Matthew 2091
i
Page
Dalliro, Joseph J 2364
Danzig, Morris 2302
Davis, Benjamin J., Jr 2235
Davis, Jack 2363
De Gregory, Hugo 2113, 2289, 2292, 2293, 2294,~2302, 2316
DeNauw, Victor 2298, 2299
D'baze, Maud 2082, 2104, 2121, 2122, 2156, 2157, 2161, 2280
DiBiase, Anthony 2364-2367 ( testimony ), 2390
DiBiase, Antonio 2366
DiBiase, Jerry 2108, 2390
Dimitroff, Louis. {See Kushafif, Louis Dimitroff.)
Dobrowolski, Eddie 2289, 2292, 2302, 2305
Dobrowolski, Kate 2289, 2292, 2302, 2303, 2305
Dobrowolski, Louise (Mrs. Hugo De Gregory) __ 2289, 2292, 2293, 2299, 2302, 2305
DOrlando, Albert 2083,2292,2293,2294,2295,2303,2311-2320 (testimony)
D'Orlando, Polly (Mrs. Albert D'Orlando) 2083,2292,2293,2303
Drummond, Roscoe 2362
Eida, Jacob 2292
Evans, Ruth VanCamp (Mrs. William Evans) 2131
Evans, William ("Bill") 2128,2131
Fast, Howard 2354
Fein, David Murray 2084,2230-2240 (testimony), 2308
Feldman, Eugene 2132
Figueiredo, Eulalia 2102, 2124, 2247, 2273, 2302, 2396, 2397, 2398
Figueiredo, Joseph 2100, 2101, 2102, 2118, 2273, 2274, 2291, 2302, 2304, 2396
Figueiredo, Joy Clark (Mrs. Joseph Figueiredo) 2102, 2273, 2287. 2288, 2289,
2290, 2291, 2301, 2302, 2304, 2306
Figueirido, Mary 2102, 2122, 2123, 2138, 2273, 2302, 2393, 2396
Fine, David Murray. {See Fein, David Murray)
Fi-shman, Harry 2274
Fishman, Irving 2083,2174-2190 (testimony)
Fishman, Rozlyn (Mrs. Harry Fishman) 2274,2393
Flynn, Elizabeth Gurley 2235, 2272, 2298, 2396
Ford, Francis 2421
Foster, Carol Harris (Mrs. William Foster) 2083, 2284-2309 (testimony),
2315, 2331, 2361, 2403, 2414
Foster, William 2284, 2286
Foster, William Z 2094, 2095, 2096, 2124, 2154, 2162, 2163, 2363
Frates, Charles 2276
Friedman, Dorothy 2108, 2190, 2192-2200 (testimony)
Fuchs, Klaus 23.59
Furlong, Walter, Msgr 2099
Garczynski, Andrew 2269, 2276
Garczynski, Olga 2104, 2246-2250 (testimony)
2266, 2267, 2268, 2269, 2270, 2271, 2276, 2277, 2280, 2394
Garfield, Ann (Mrs. Edwin Garfield) 2109, 2110, 2115, 2293, 2302
Garfield, Edwin (Eddie) 2112, 2115, 2281, 2302
Gates, John 2096, 2354, 2355
Glatis, James 2224
Goldenberg, Dorothy (Mrs. Sidney Goldenberg) 2300
Goldenberg, Sidney 2297, 2300
Goodwin, Robert 2112, 2115, 2281, 2391
Gordon, Max 2272
Gravelle, Muriel. {See McAvoy, Muriel.)
Gray, Ralph 2421
Gray, Roland 2298, 2305
Green, Abner 2397
Gustafson, Elton 2299
Handman, Robert ("Fred") 2127, 2272, 2337-2340 (testimony), 2391
Harrison, William (Edward) 2112
Harrison, John 2280
Hartman, Fanny 2302, 2305
Heck, Kitty 2111, 2115, 2255, 2391
Hicks, Louis 2301, 2302
Hicks, Margaret 2109, 2112, 2115
Hilario, Guilherme 2280
Hill, Hulda 2300
INDEX iii
Page
Himofl, Mary 2234
Hirst, Edmund 2277
Hoffman, Abe 2281
Homans, William P., Jr 2158, 2250, 2256, 2377, 2417
Hood, Frances (Mrs. Otis Hood) 2301,2393
Hood, Otis Archer 2082,
2113, 2114, 2122, 2156-2158 (testimony), 2173, 2301, 2308, 2393
Hoover, J. Edgar 2162, 2163, 2203, 2401
Home, Harold 2297, 2300, 2305
Hovan, John G 2109,2417-2419 (testimony)
Howard, Milton 2113, 2272
Humenuk, John 2277
Izzo, Edmund 2401
Johnson, Louis 2399
Jones, Bess 2401
Kantrovitz, Gabriel 2164, 2224, 2241, 2416
Karnikas, Alex 2297, 2299
Karnikas, Ann 2299
Kaufman, Mary M 2337, 2362
Khrushchev (Nikita) 2094, 2096, 2354, 2359
Kolodoff, Dave 2108
Korstad, Frances (Mrs. Karl Korstad) 2132
Korstad, Karl 2131, 2132
Kushaff, Louis Dimitroff 2122, 2123, 2280
Lefavour, Philip W 2405-2412 (testimony)
Leith, Alex 2125, 2281, 2390, 2397
Leith, Olive Sutton (Mrs. Alex Leith) 2397
Lenin (Nikolai) 2162, 2163
Lewengrub, Harold Lester 2250-2255 (testimony), 2391
Licht, Fanny 2273
Lipshires, Joan (Mrs. Sidney Lipshires) 2271,2396,2400
Lipshires, Sidney 2111, 2115, 2116, 2118, 2123,
2124, 2125, 2126, 2128, 2252, 2254, 2271, 2275, 2389, 2394, 2400
Lofskv, Ralph C 2108,2133-2139 (testimony)
Lubeli, David 2083, 2399
Lubell, Jonathan 2083, 2399
Luscomb, Florence 2394
Macedo, Arthur 2275, 2391
Macedo, Mary (Mrs. Arthur Macedo) 2275
Mamber, Philip 2280
Marino, James 2302
Martin, Frank 2109
Marx (Karl) 2163
Marzani, Carl 2124
Maskiewicz, Benning (Benny) 2084, 2291, 2292, 2388, 2412-2415 (testimony)
Matles, James J 2370, 2375, 2376
Matthews, Ella Levine (Mrs. William Matthews) 2129
Matthews, William 2129
McAvoy, Clifford (T.) 2297
McAvoy, Muriel Grace (Mrs. Clifford T. McAvoy; nee Gravelle) 2201-2203
(testimony), 2296, 2297, 2304, 2305, 2319
McCarty, Robert ' 2409
Medina, Harold R 2315,2319
Mello, Frank 2274, 2390
Mills, Alice (Mrs. Nathaniel Mills) 2399
Mills, Nathaniel 2112, 2394, 2396, 2399
Milstein, Richard S 2328
Monroe, Simmie R 2311
Murphy, Daniel I 2421
Nahorski, John 2289
Nelson. Elba Chase 2083, 2112,
2113, 2287, 2292, 2294, 2297, 2298, 2304, 2305, 2306, 2314, 2315
Nelson, Steve 2204, 2205, 2206, 2217, 2358
Newell, Charles 2124, 2125, 2240
O'Brien, George 2289
O'Brien, Mrs. George 2289
iy INDEX
O'Brien, Walter 2395
O'Donnell, James 2299
Olrich, Jerry (Jerome) 2110,2377-2380 (testimony)
Pacbeco, John 2277
Pacheco, Manuel 2277
Passaretti, Tony 2111, 2112, 2399, 2400
Penha, Armando ("Tom") 2081-2084,
2090-2133 (testimony), 2134, 2135, 2140, 2141, 2147, 2148, 2149,
2151-2152 (testimony), 2153, 2155, 2157, 2195, 2199, 2229, 2240,
2241, 2243, 2247, 2248, 2249, 2250, 2253, 2254, 2255, 2257, 2261,
2265, 2267, 2268-2281 (testimony), 2290, 2326, 2331, 2332, 2336,
2337, 2339, 2363, 2366, 2370, 2371-2372 (testimony), 2373, 2376,
2380, 2383, 2384, 2388-2403 (testimony), 2404, 2416, 2417.
Perry, Douglas Neil 2084, 2104, 2124, 2125, 2241, 2242, 2243, 2244, 2270, 2276,
2278, 2280, 2281, 2298, 2367-2377 (testimony), 2390, 2394, 2396
Perry, Pettis 2117
Philbrick, Herbert 2091, 2263, 2293, 2294
Rand, Harry I 2311
Ravden, Sidney 2224r-2229 (testimony)
Rego, Manuel 2276, 2390
Rex, James 2105, 2255, 2256-2258 (testimony)
Robbins, Herbert E 2263
Robertson, Mary (Mrs. William Robertson) 2130
Robertson, William 2129, 2130
Rogerson, Palmeda Crosley (Mrs. Roy Rogerson) 2271, 2277, 2278
Rogerson, Roy ___ 2104, 2270, 2271, 2277, 2278, 2387, 2394, 2403-2405 (testimony)
Ro-senberg, Allan R 2.367, 2403, 2405
Rosenberg, David (Dave) 2292,2293,2302,2389
Rosenberg, Ed 2292
Rosenberg, Ethel 2124, 2394, 2395
Rosenberg, Julius 2124, 2394, 2395
Rosenkrants, Barbara (Mrs. Paul Rosenkrants) 2400
Rosenkrants, Paul S 2113,2115,2281,2328-2.337 ( testimony ), 2400
Russell, Maud 2272, 2391
Russo, Bonita (Mrs. John Russo) 2399
Russo, ,Tohn 211,5,2271,2387,2396,2399,2416-2417 (testimony)
Russo, Michael— 2083, 2111. 2115, 2252, 2254,2272, 2278, 2279, 2388, 2389, 2399, 2400
Russo, Pearl (Mrs. Michael Russo )_ 2399
Sawchyn, Alex 2106
Scales, Junius 2272
Schirmer, Daniel Boone 2111, 2115,
2255, 2258-2268 ( testimony ), 2301, 2305, 2308, 2389, 2399
Schirmer, Peggy (Mrs. Daniel Boone Schirmer) 2399
Schwartz, Arnold 2104, 2274, 2321-2328 (testimony) , 2390, 2402
Schwartz, Rosaline (Mrs. Arnold Schwartz) 2104,2105.
2274, 2324, 2390, 2394, 2395
Sheldrick, George ("Jack") 2127,2362-2364 (testimony). 2400
Shelman, Andie (Mrs. Nathaniel Shelman) 2103,2274,2389
Shelman, Nathaniel 2103, 2273, 2389
Sherman, Joseph 2084, 2164-2171 (testimony)
Shubow, Lawrence D 2246
Smith, Ethel 2280
Smith, Howard (W.) 2206
Snitzer, Elias 2084, 2340-2356 (testimony)
Sorum, William 2319
Spurny, Marge 2129
Stalin (Josef) 2094, 2117
Stanton, Seabury 2279
Starobin, Joseph 2272
Stone, Martha (Mrs. Emil Asher) 2400
Su.'^ke, Eleanor 2083,2174-2190 (testimony)
Szocik, Joseph 2277
Sutton, Olive. {See Leith, Olive Sutton.)
Talmadge, Herman 2359, 2360
Tamsky, Florence (Mrs. Herman Tamsky) 2393
Tamsky, Herman 2395
Taylor, Dave 2300
INDEX V
Page
Taylor, Julie 2300
Texeira, Edward (T.) 2280, 2393, 2399
Texeira, Tillie (Mrs. Edward Texeira) 2399
Theodore, Charles 2299
TimpsoD, Anne Burlak 2082, 2110, 2114, 2115, 2122.
2158-64 (testimony) , 2272, 2293, 2301, 2305, 2307, 2308, 2396
Timpson, Arthur 2301
Tito (Josip Broz) 2096
Togliatti (Palmiro) 2275
Tremblay, Albert 2280
Twardoski, John 2289
Twardoski, Mrs. John 2289
VanCamp, Betty (Mrs. George VanCamp) 2131
VanCamp, George 2131
VanCamp, Jerome 2130
Van Camp, Ruth. {See Evans, Ruth Van Camp. )
Velson, Irving 2409
Vieira, John 2278
Wallace, Henry 2296, 2298, 2303, 2318
Welanko, Abraham 2209, 2297, 2299, 2300, 2304, 2305, 2319
VTelanko, Marian (Mrs. Abraham Welanko) 2297, 2300
White, Ann (Mrs. Geoffrey White) 2109, 2396
White, Geoffrey 2107, 2109, 2111, 2129, 2301, 2390
Whiteside, Howard S 2230, 2258
Whitney, Bob 2298
Wilkerson, Doxey 2272
Williams, Florence (Mrs. Marty Williams) 2301
Williams, Marty 2301
Williams, Rebecca (Mrs. Warren Williams) 2130,2131
Williams, Warren 2130
Williamson, Oliver 2295
Wirkilla, Bueno 2297, 2298
Wyman, Louis C 2084,2204^-2224 (testimony)
Zabrowski, John 2300
Zimmerman, Herbert 2190, 2394
Organizations
AES 2410
Ace Cabinet Corp 2368
Abraham Lincoln Brigade 2358
Aerovox Corp. (New Bedford, Mass.) 2389
Alliance Liberal Portuguese Club (ALP) 2100,2102,2276,2396
American Bar Association, Special Committee To Study Communist Tac-
tics, Strategy, and Objectives 2205,2209,2210
American Committee To Survey Labor Conditions in Europe 2409
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 2083,2397,2398
American Communications Association 2348
Benevolent Protective Order of Elks (Boston) 2393,2398
Berkshire-Hathaway Mills 2278-2280
Boston Committee To Secure Clemency for the Rosenbergs 2394
Boston Conservatory of Music 2229
Boston University 2233
Brown & Sharpe Manufacturing Co. (Providence) 2109
City College of the City of New York 2322, 2326, 2338
Clube Alianca Liberal Portuguesa. (See Alliance Liberal Portuguese
Club (ALP).)
Columbia University 2232, 2338
Committee for the Defense of Eulalia Figueiredo (New Bedford) 2397, 2398
Communist International. (See International, III.)
Communist Party, Italy 2275
Communist Party, U. S. A 2096
District 1 (New England) 2081,2083,2097,2119,2288
District Committee 2081, 2091, 2111-2115, 2383, 2391, 2400
National Committee 2082, 2110, 2112, 2118, 2119, 2125, 2127, 2272, 2400
National Metals Commission 2272, 2281
Vi INDEX
Communist Party, U. S. A. — Continued Pae«
National Textile Commission 2081,
2082, 2091, 2125, 2126, 2127, 2128, 2340, 2363, 2364, 2390, 2391, 2400
National Trade Commission 2126
New England District Metals Commission 2081,
2112, 2124, 2278, 2281, 2332, 2333, 2336, 2391
New England District Secretariat 2115,2116,2262,2264
States :
Georgia 2298
Massachusetts :
Boston 2300-2302
Section Committee 2109, 2110, 2380
Shoe Workers Group 2142
Bristol County 2081, 2091
Fall River :
Jewish Section 2148
Section Committee 2105, 2106, 2148
Lawrence 2112, 2399
New Bedford 2091, 2092, 2100, 2273-2280
Section Committee. 2097, 2101-2105, 2273, 2274, 2277, 2278, 2371
Section Metals Commission 2278
Regional Section Organizers Committee 2081, 2091
Springfield 2400
State Board 2115
New Hampshire 2083, 2287, 2297, 2299, 2315, 2361
Berlin 2300
Concord-Hillsboro area 2297, 2298
Keene 2300
Manchester 2298, 2299, 2300
Nashua 2083, 2288, 2289-2295
State Committee 2083, 2288, 2296, 2297, 2300
New York :
Onondaga County 2363
North Carolina :
Durham 2128-2130
High Point Industrial Commission 2131, 2132
Winston-Salem 2130-2132
Section Committee 2131
Rhode Island :
Providence :
Section Committee 2106-2109, 2134, 2195, 2366
Vermont 2301
Eastern Electric, Inc 2368
Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers, United :
New England 2084, 2125, 2390
Local 271 2406
Local 277 2082, 2104, 2124, 2276, 2277, 2367, 2370, 2375, 2403, 2404
Elks Order (Boston). {See Benevolent Protective Order of Elks.)
Emergency Civil Liberties Committee 2203, 2219
Erwin Mills (Durham, N. C.) 2129, 2130
Fiske Mills 2102
Freedom of the Press Committee. (See National Committee for Freedom
of the Press.)
General Electric Co. (Lynn, Mass.) 2391
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., Inc (New Bedford, Mass.) 2103
Harvard University 2083, 2259, 2263, 2322, 2326, 2378, 2399, 240O
Imported Publications & Products 2177
International, III 2096
International Workers Order 2148, 2215
Labor Youth League :
New Bedford 2275
New England 2083, 2115, 2269, 2395, 2396 2399
Rhode Island 2108. 2109
Lowell Technological Institute 2084, 2232, 2342, 2343, 2344, 2345, 2347, 2350
Massachusetts Commission on Communism 2124
Massachusetts Committee for the Bill of Rights 2112, 2394
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 2400
INDEX Vii
Page
Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers, International Union of 2348
Minneapolis-Honeywell Regulator Co., Brown Instrument Division 2347,
2348, 2349, 2352
Minute Women for Peace 2303
Morse Twist Drill & Machine Co 2104, 2368, 2403
National Association of Attorneys General 2205
National Committee for Freedom of the Press 2229, 2395
National Silver Co 2104,2277
National Women's Appeal for the Rights of Foreign Born Americans 2397
New Bedford Committee To Fight Unemployment 2083, 2394
New Bedford Peace Committee 2083, 2389, 2393, 2394
New Bedford Surplus Committee 2394
New England Citizens Concerned for Peace 2083, 2297, 2389, 2392, 2393
New England College 2238
New England Conference for Peace 2202
New Process Twist Drill Co 2368
New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad 2382, 2383
New York University 2378
Polish American Congress 2179
Portuguese Republican Club, New Bedford 2101
Pravda Printing Plant (Moscow) 2187
Progressive Book Shop (Boston) 2302
Progressive Citizens of America (New Hampshire) 2296
Progressive Party :
Massachusetts 2083, 2278, 2389, 2395
Fall River 2106, 2147
New Hampshire 2083, 2202, 2203, 2297, 2299, 2303, 2305
Publishers New Press, Inc 2225
Railroad Trainmen, Brotherhood of. Local 631 2382
Royal Brand Cutlery Co 2368
S. S. McAllister Victory 2329
Save Our Sons Committee 2083, 2397
Shoe Workers of America, United (CIO) 2140, 2143, 2150
Springfield College 2329
Standard Nut & Bolt Co 2368
Suffolk Law School 2406
Textile Workers Union of America (CIO) 2102
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Embassy, Mexico 2185
Unitarian Church, First (New Orleans) 2311
United States Government :
Federal Bureau of Investigation 2219
Justice Department 2175, 2206, 2217
Subversive Activities Control Board 2210, 2214, 2215
Supreme Court 2206, 2209, 2212-2218, 2220, 2223
Treasury Department, Customs, Bureau of 2174, 2176
University of Chicago 2346, 2349, 2351, 2352
University of New Hampshire 2296, 2297, 2298
Wamsutta MiUs (New Bedford) 2104, 2278, 2325, 2326, 2390
Publications
America Illustrated 2185, 2188
Daily Worker 2225, 2272
March of Labor 2272
Masses and Mainstream 2272
Moscow News 2186
Post War Rehabilitation and Development of the National Economy of
DPRK (Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea) 2180
Soviet Union (magazine) 2181,2187
Toward Soviet America (book) 2094
U. S. S. R 2185
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