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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the New York City area. Hearings"

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INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
NEW YORK CITY AREA-Part 3 



HEARING 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
^^^r^^OUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-THIED CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



MAY 6, 1953 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT I'RINTING OFFICE 
33909 WASHINGTON : 1953 



rjJ^X 



/ 



Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

JUL 1 4 lb53 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 
BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER. Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Micliigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzio, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Locis J. Rdssell, Chief Investigator 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 



CONTENTS 



May 5, 1953 : 

Testimony of— Page 

Lionel Stander 134^ 

Jay Gorney 1370 

Robert Gladnick 1377 

Irving Cliarles Velson 1417 

Index 142a 

HI 



The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946] , chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

RtJLE X 

SEC. 121 STANDING COMMITTEES 
^: ***** * 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Commitee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) Tlie Commitee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attaclvs the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerlv of tlie House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whetlier or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpeuas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

▼ 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

• •*•••• 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, following standing committees : 

* * * • * • • . 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
******* 

Rtjle XI 

POWEBS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
***••«• 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
Is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
NEW YORK CITY AREA— PART 3 



WEDNESDAY, MAY 6, 1953 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

New York, N. Y. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, 
at 10: 10 a, m., in room 1105 of the United States Courthouse, Foley 
Square, New York, N. Y,, Hon. Harold H. Velde (chairman) pre- 
siding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde 
(chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, 
Morgan M. Moulder, Clyde Doyle (appearance noted in transcript), 
and James B, Frazier, Jr. (appearance noted in transcript). 

Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; Frank S. Tav- 
enner, Jr., counsel ; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research ; Leslie C. 
Scott, research analyst ; W. Jackson Jones, Earl L. Fuoss, and George 
C. Williams, investigators; Dolores Anderson and Thelma Scearce, 
staff representatives ; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Reporter, let the record show that present are Mr. Kearney, 
Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Moulder, and the chairman, Mr. Velde, 
a quorum of the full committee. 

Are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Is Mr. Lionel Stander in the hearing room ? 

Mr. Stander. Yes, sir ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Come forward, please. 

Mr. Velde. Raise your right hand and be sworn. 

In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do you 
solenmly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Stander. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LIONEL STANDER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

LEONARD B. BOUDIN 

Mr. Veude. Be seated. 

Mr. Stander. Before 3^ou ask me any questions, Mr. Velde, I would 
like it very much if you turned off the lights and discontinued the 
television cameras, as I am a professional performer and I only ap- 
pear on TV for entertainment or for philanthropic organizations, 

1343 



1344 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA . 

and I consider this a very serious matter that doesn't fall into either 
category 

Mr. Velde. Well, now 

Mr. Stander. And it is certainly not right that a witness should 
have to have the lights and the television cameras on him. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, do you feel the lights will affect your 
testimony ? 

Mr. Standee. Yes; I do, and I feel the cameras being on would 
affect my testimony. Furthermore, if this were a live television show 
in which my entire testimony would be seen by the American people 
just the way I make it, I dop't think I would have as strenuous ob- 
jections; but I still might object. 

Mr. Velde. You mean a man who has been before the cameras and 
before the lights such as you have would have difficulty in testifying? 

Mr. Standee. Yes; I do, because when I am before a camera I 
am before the camera as an actor and an entertainer, not as a witness, 

Mr. Velde. You are before the United States Government now, 
a committee of the Congress of the United States Government. 

Mr. Standee. Which is a very serious thing, sir. 

Mr. Velde. It is a very serious thing. 

Mr. Standee. And I am not here just as an actor or an entertainer. 

Mr. Velde. Let me tell you, Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. If I were here as an actor and entertainer, I wouldn't 
have any objection whatsoever, but 

Mr. Velde. Let me tell you, Mr. Stander, the Committee on Un- 
American Activities desires to give the public the information that 
comes before it in all shapes and forms, and the excuse that you have 
that you are a professional entertainer 

Mr. Standee. That isn't an excuse ; it is a fact. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Has no bearing whatsoever. 

Mr. Standee. I resent the fact that you say it is an excuse. I am a 
professional entertainer and it is quite different, as any actor will 
tell you, to come before the camera in a carefully rehearsed script 
and, on the other hand, to come before the camera as a witness before 
a congressional committee, which is a very serious thing, which isn't 
entertainment and which certainly isn't a benefit for a charitable 
institution. 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. And that is my position, and I feel very strongly 
about this, and I would appreciate it very much if you would turn 
the lights off and turn the cameras off. 

Mr. BouDiN. It's been done for other witnesses. 

Mr. Standee. Mr. Chairman, I feel that it would be prejudicial 
for you not to turn off the cameras and the lights for me because, as I 
understand, from reading in the press, it has been done for other 
witnesses. 

Mr. Velde. Certainly it has been done for other witnesses, but for 
other reasons, Mr. Stander, and the reasons were it would make them 
nervous and/or in some way interfere with the testimony they had 
to give. 

Mr. Standee. I am not exactly calm this morning. I haven't had 
any sleep. As you know, I am playing in another city, and I haven't 
had any sleep at all tonight. I've traveled here, and I don't want 
to bore you with the details of my personal complications, but I was 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1345 

unable to get a room in a hotel and I stayed up ; and I would be highly 
nervous 



Mr. Velde. Could you 

Mr. Standee. Particularly as an actor likes 

Mr. Velde. Can you say 

Mr. Standee. To give a good performance, and I can't give a good 
performance now that I haven't reheai*sed, and inasmuch as I haven't 
had an opportunity to go over this matter and had time to consult 
with counsel 

Mr. Velde. Well, Mr. Stander, let me ask you 

Mr. Stander. I have been in Washington, and I have been in Phila- 
delphia, and I was unable to secure counsel until I was in Washing- 
ton  

Mr. Velde. Yes ; but we expect you to testify to the truth, and that 
is just the question. I was going to ask you: If we do turn off the 
cameras, will you answer the questions that are put to you by counsel ? 

Mr. Standee. I absolutely intend to cooperate with this committee 
and answer any questions to the best of my ability. I took an oath, and 
I believe in my oaths. 

Mr. Velde. In that particular case, will the television and newsreel 
cameras please desist at the present time, and will the still photog- 
raphers take their pictures and kindly retire during the witness' testi- 
mony? 

Mr. Ta^tenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Standee. Lionel Stander. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel ? 

Mr. Standee. Yes, sir; I am. 

Mr. Tavennee. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. BouDiN. Leonard B. Boudin, 76 Beaver Street, New York. 

Mr. Tavennee. Mr. Chairman, I think I should make a statement 
to the committee of the purposes for the calling of this witness at 
this time. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavennee. The witness previously appeared before this com- 
mittee in 1940, and at that time denied having been a member of the 
Communist Party and stated that he never intended to be. 

(Representative Clyde Doyle entered the hearing room at this 
point.) 

In 1951 information came to the cqmmittee which resulted in the 
issuance of a subpena on March 29, 1951, for his appearance before 
the committee on April 20. Because of certain circumstances that 
was continued until April 24. 

The committee received a request from the then counsel for the 
witness that, because of an engagement that he had at the hospital, 
he would like a continuance, and that continuance was granted. 

However, on the 24th a witness by the name of Marc Lawrence testi- 
fied before the committee and in the course of his testimony alluded to 
this witness by name. 

On the following day a telegram was received from the witness in 
which he denied the statements made by Mr. Lawrence with reference 
to him and requested that the committee give him an immediate oppor- 
tunity to appear before the committee in regard to it. 

33909 — 53 — pt. 3 2 



1346 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Then there was considerable correspondence backward and forward 
between the witness and the committee, endeavoring to find the date 
at which he could appear. 

My files 

Mr. Standee. Pardon me. Might I interrupt just for 1 second 
in the interest of clarifying that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. My files 

Mr. Velde. You may make a statement after counsel finishes. 

Mr. Standee. Oh, I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. During this correspondence the witness requested 
that he be given an opportunity to appear immediately. That was 
particularly in his letter of May 10. 

Mr. Clardy. May 10 of what year? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1951. 

My last letter or the committee's last letter to the witness with re- 
gard to that was on June 30 of 1951, in which it was stated, in sub- 
stance, that an effort would be made to work it out with the chairman 
and a date fixed. 

Now, my files contain a reference under date of July 5, which was 
just a few days after the last letter to the witness, indicating that on 
July 19 further investigative matters would be heard by the com- 
mittee with regard to this witness ; and then, for a considerable period 
after that, the investigation continued with the results which will be 
made apparent during the course of the hearing. 

Mr. Velde. So that 

Mr. Tavenner. Now 



Mr. Velde (continuing). This matter has been before the commit- 
tee for approximately 3 years, then ; is that correct? 

Mr. Tavenner. Since this immediate matter — since April or May 
1951. 

Mr. Velde. For 2 years ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

It was not our purpose in calling the witness now to go into any 
matter which was involved in the hearing in his appearance before the 
committee in 1940. It is only as the result of investigative information 
and testimony received by the committee during the investigation 
which began in 1951 that we have called this witness. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, you had a correction or 

Mr. Stander. Yes; I would 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Or something to say in clarification. 

Mr. Stander. The delay asked for by my then attorney was for 
1 day. 

I have voluminous correspondence here which shows I tried to get 
an immediate hearing. I sent a letter to each and every member of 
the committee. I have one here, for example, dated May 14, 1951, 
from Congressman Kearney, who says : 

Dear Sir : In this morning's mail I received a copy of a letter you sent to the 
Committee on Un-American Activities and Hon. John S. Wood. 

I am talcing this matter up with the chairman and asking that he call you 
at the earliest possible moment. 

Mr. Kearney. Let me 

Mr. Stander. Havino; received that letter 



Mr. Elearney (continuing). Interrupt you there and- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1347 

Mr. Stander (continuing). I went in person to Washington and 
saw Congressman Kearney, who assured me 



Mr. Kearney (continuing), Mr. Stander- 

Mr. Stander (continuing). That I would have an immediate hear- 
ing because it was very important to me, because merely receiving the 
subpena with the press's announcement that I was subpenaed caused 
me to be blacklisted in radio, television, and motion pictures. So, J 
had an immediate economic motive for an immediate appearance. 

Congressman Kearney told me he had contacted the counsel and 
chairman of the committee and I would be heard within a day or two, 

I went back to New York and I received the telegram from Mr, 
Tavenner, or Mr. Wood, which said he assured me I would be heard 
immediately. 

At the same time I sued the witness, who perjured himself before 
this committee, Mr. Marc Lawrence, in the State Supreme Court of 
New York, who ruled that he enjoyed congressional immunity. How- 
ever, if he 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander, we are not interested in those ex- 
traneous matters. 

Mr. Stander. I don't think they are extraneous, when a man comes 
directly from the psychopathic ward under the care of two psychia- 
trists. Dr. Hannel and Dr. Orloff, and I wrote this letter and informed 
every one of the committeemen that this man, a psychopathic, was 
used as a witness against me and, under advice of counsel, fled to 
Europe and is still a refugee from this court case. 

Mr. Clardt. Well, Counsel, do I understand there was consider- 
able correspondence and some difficulty in hitting upon a mutually 
satisfactory date. 

Mr. Stander. The difficulty 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon me, Mr. Stander. 

Mr. Stander. I wanted an immediate hearing, and it is 2 years 
since I requested it 

Mr. Clardy. Mr, Stander 



Mr, Stander. And for 2 years I have been blacklisted 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander^ 

Mr. Stander. Because of the newspaper stories, 

Mr. Clardy. INfr. Stander, may I suggest I wasn't talking to you. 

Mr. Stander. Sorry. 

Mr. Clardy. Later I will ask you some questions. 

Mr. Stander. Thank you. I will be delighted to converse with 
you later, 

Mr. Clardy. Now, to get back to the matter, Counsel : I understand 
there was some correspondence and difficulty to hit upon a mutually 
satisfactory date. Is that what you are trying to tell us? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is in substance it. 

One of the letters, I recall, states what hearings were being con- 
ducted and a hearing date could not be fixed until the completion 

Mr. Stander. Pardon me, sir. I never objected to any date. The 
lawyer asked a delay of 1 day. 

]\Ir. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Stander. I wanted an immediate date. 

Mr. Velde. Just a minute, Mr. Stander. You will be given an op- 
opportunity to talk. 



1348 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. This is the last letter which I referred to — June 30 — 
acknowledging receipt of the witness' letter of June 28 : 

The committee has been in continuous session since June 18. 

Mr. Stander. What year was that, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. June 30, 1951. 

The committee members will not be here during the week of July 2. 

Numerous witnesses have been subpenaed for every day during the week of 
July 9 and well into the week of July 16. 

I recognize the justice of your desire and will do what I can to have an early 
date fixed, even if it interferes with the completion of the testimony on the 
subject of the pi'esent hearings. 

I will take the matter up with the chairman upon his return on July 9 — 

The chairman was then on the west coast, 
and will advise you within a few days thereafter as to what dates are available. 

Then I stated that within a few days after that further investigation 
had reflected certain things which required more investigation. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I asked that because, as you know, I only came 
on the committee since the first of the year and I wanted to get a 
little 

Mr. Stander. Mr. Chairman 



Mr. Clardy (continuing). Of the background. However, since the 
first of the year, has the investigation continued pretty well down 
until right about now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, the investigation has continued during our 
entire course of work in California. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. Does his correspondence indicate, Mr. Counsel, at all 
times he wanted an early hearing ? 

That seems to be 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; he- 



Mr. Moulder (continuing) . The point before the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. He did 

Mr. Stander. I think I can clarify this by reading a letter received 
from Congressman Kearney. 

Mr, Tavenner. Just a moment. 

Mr. Velde. Just a moment until counsel finishes. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. That is true. He did ask for a hearing up until 
the early part of July. 

Mr. Velde. What year? 

Mr. Stander. What year? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1951. 

Mr. Stander. That is 2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Since our hearings in California, during which 
certain witnesses have testified in regard to him, there has been no 
request for a hearing. 

Mr. Clardy. I was going to ask you : Has there been any request 
since I came on the committee ? 

There has been no request since Mr. Ashe ^ testified in California. 

Mr. Stander. May I read this letter into the record, INIr. Chairman ? 

]\Ir. Tavenner. I am sorry. There was a request made at a later 
date, which was in September 

' Harold J. Ashe. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1349 

Mr. Clardy. September. 

Mr. Tavenner. September 17, 1951. 

Mr. Clardy. September 17. 

Mr. Stander. Let me read this letter from Congressman Kearney, 
which is dated June 21, 1951, ahnost 2 years ago. It is addressed to me 
at my home. It says : 

Dear Sir : I am leaving the city for a week and upon my return expect to have 
the hearings resume. 

I shall bring your plea to the chairman and, frankly, I am of the opinion that 
you should be heard without delay. 

That was 2 years ago. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, there isn't any denial on that part, is there 

Mr. Clardy. Well, Mr. Stander 

Pardon me. 

Mr. Kearney (continuing). As far as I am personally concerned? 

Mr. Stander. I appreciated your courtesy. Congressman Kearney. 
The only point in my reading this letter is to show that I had de- 
manded an immediate appearance to refute this perjurer. I went to 
court to try to prove in a court of law he was a perjurer and, under 
advice of counsel, he fled from the country so he wouldn't be able to 
make a statement to the press 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Stander. And would be able, therefore, to make use of legal 
immunity 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander- 



llr. Stander. And not face up to the responsibility 

Mr. Velde. That is entirely uncalled for, Mr. Stander. I can see 
no reason to further argue about this question. You are here at the. 
present time. Let's have your testimony, and we will appreciate 

Mr. Stander. But I think it is very important 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Your not going into 

Mr. Stander. Very pertinent to the matter- 



Mr. Velde (continuing). These extraneous matters. 

Mr. Stander. And I think it is very desirous to the American people 
to know about everything that was happening here 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, will you 

Mr. Stander. That I asked for an appearance 2 years ago, and 2 
years later I'm called, and 

Mr. Clahdy. Do I understand, Mr. Stander, you are here to answer 
the $64 question when we ask it i 

Mr. Stander. I will answer every question truthfully, to the best 
of my ability, and I am perfectly aware of the fact I have made an/' 
oath, and I am not in the habit of violating my oath or my word, 
even when I don't swear under oath. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Stander, will you tell the committee, 
please, when and wliere were you born ? 

Mr. Stander. New York City, January 11, 1908. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. What is your occupation or profession ? 

Mr. Stander. Well, I'm basically an actor. I have been a newspa]>er 
reporter. I have been a director of various stage entertainments for 
the Red Cross, the Air Foi'ce, the Kiwanis, junior and senior chambers 
of commerce, Elks, Moose, and other organizations with animal names. 
I've been an entertainer, director. Tve produced two Broadway plays. 



1350 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW YORK AREA 






I've been a theatrical person for the last 26 years, with an occasional 
venture into the field of journalism. 

Mr. Ta\tsnner. Have you also done screenwriting or acting ? 

Mr. Standee. I have done screen acting. I have written a script or 
two for the screen. 

Mr. Tavennek, How long were you engaged as a screen actor, and 
where ? 

Mr. Standee. Well, my very first jobs were in the old silent days as 
a kid actor, and then I went out — I made pictures here for "Warner 
Bros, out in Brooklyn at the Divido Studios years ago. I worked 
with Marian Davies at the old Hearst Cosmopolitan, and went out 
under a Hollywood contract in January 1935. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. How long did you remain in Hollywood as a screen 
actor ? 

Mr. Standee. Until I was the first person who exposed the criminal 
records of Browne and Bioff, the lATSE racketeer-gangster officials 
who later went to jail, and, because I exposed them 1 week before Mr. 
Pegler exposed them in the paper, I was blacklisted by the Motion 
Picture Producers' Asssociation — the major studios. So, in other 
words, that was from the time, 1935, until the meeting in which I ex- 
posed these two racketeering gangsters who the Federal Government 
later put in the can. 

Mr. Tavennee. My question to you was : How long did you continue 
to 

Mr. Standee. Well 



Mr. Tavennee (continuing). Work as an actor? 

Mr. Standee. I don't remember the exact date, but I have worked 
as an actor continually since then. After the major studios black- 
listed me, I worked for independent producers 

Mr. Tavennee. Approximately 

Mr. Standee. Up until the time Mr. Marc Lawrence mentioned my 
name, or rather, up until the time Lariy Parks said he didn't know me 
as a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me 

Mr. Standee. And that appeared in the paper, and just to have my 
name appear in association with this committee — it seems like some- 
thing ; it shouldn't ; I agree — I know it isn't the committee's fault. It 
is like the Spanish Inquisition. 

Mr. Tavennee. Let me remind you —  — 

Mr. Standee, You may not be burned, but you can't help coming 
away a little singed. 

Mr. Tavennee. Let me remind you of my question : How long did 
you continue to engage in the profession of screen acting 

Mr. Standee. Screen acting. 

Mr. Tavennee (continuing). In California? 

Mr. Standee. In California, up until — outside of a period in which 
I enlisted in the Royal Canadian Air Force, United States Air Force, 
about 21/2 years, 3 years, it was from 1935 until 1948, or 1949. I'm not 
sure of the exact date. Then I made a few pictures, independent. New 
York. 

Mr. Tavennee. And during that period of time you served in the 
Armed Forces, either of this or some other country, did I understand ? 

Mr. Standee. Well, not some other country. I enlisted in the 
RCAF, but I was in a show and had to give notice, and in the mean- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1351 

time, in between, the United States went to war and President Eoose- 
velt issued an edict that nobody between the ages of 18 and 45 with any 
sort of pilot training cross the border. So I was unable to fulfill my 
enlistment in the Eoyal Canadian Air Force, and I enlisted sub- 
sequently, a few months later, for pilot training in the United States 
Air Force. 

Every one of the committee received my war record, and I don't like 
to talk about it. because it is there and I do not like to match my 
patriotism with anybody. 

Mr. Ta\'Enner. I am just trying to ascertain dates. Wliat is the 
approximate date you went into the Armed Forces — — 

Mr. Stander. I think I have my Army discharge here — — 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). And the date you 

Mr. Stander (continuing). And I'll refer to it. 

Mr. Ta\^nner (continuing). Were discharged ? 

Mr. Stander. Well, this is the first Army discharge. You are not 
interested in that. The first time I enlisted was in peacetime. The 
second time I enlisted in 

Mr. Velde. Well, I think we are interested in both. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking for the dates when he 

Mr. Stander, Are vou interested in both, sir? 



Well, the first time I enlisted in the Armed Forces was in — — 

Mr. Tavenner. Will the witness answer my question, please ? 

Mr. Stander. 1922. The last time in 1942. 

Mr, Tavenner. You were in the service 

Mr. Standee. I enlisted in the Royal Canadian Air Force in 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. From 1942 until what date were you in the armed 
services ? 

Mr. Stander. May 5, 1944, 

And, incidentally, while I'm looking at it here, I notice that the Chief 
of Staff, who was then Colonel Morgan, signed my character as excel- 
lent and then Glenn O, Bacus, who I worked directly under — he was 
then commanding general of the headquarters' staff — he later got some 
very good publicity in the papers because of his heroic exploits. He 
is the man who made 13 strikes with saber jets. I worked directly 
under him. Glenn Bacus and Colonel Morgan, and every other ofiicer 
of the headquarters staff, upon my discharge, gave me letters and auto- 
graphed pictures attesting to my excellent service record and character. 
In fact, the Chief of Staff initialed it himself. 

That is in answer to the chairman about my war record. 

Mr. Taat.nner. Is it correct to say 

Mr. Stander. Also, in regard to that, I see a citation from the Red 
Cross, the war bond drive, the Treasury Department, and here is a 
tribute to me from the Armed Forces Radio Service, November 12, 
1947: 

Dear Mr. Stander : May I extend my -appreciation for your splendid coopera- 
tion. 

Mr. Vei.de. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee (continuing to read). 

Cooperation such as yours inalvps it possible here for the staff to carry on the 
work which means so much to our troops overseas  

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, let me- 



Mr. Stander (continuing to read), 
and the many combat casualites here at home. 



1352 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, will you- 



Mr. Standee. I have a number of these. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Answer the question of counsel as simply 
as possible? 

Mr. Standler. I want to say 

Mr. Velde. You may elaborate later if there is some part of your 
career you are proud of. 

Mr. Standee. I am proud of everything I said publicly or privately, 
and 

Mr, Velde. You have made some self-serving statements, and the 
committee — — • 

Mr. Stander. I am not charged with anything, am I ? 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander 

Mr. Stander. Does this committee charge me with being a Commu- 
nist? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, will you let me tell you whether you are 
charged with being a Communist? 

Will you be quiet just for a minute while I will tell you what you 
are here for ? 

Mr. Stander. Yes ; I would like to hear. 

Mr. Velde. You are here to give us information, facts and informa- 
tion, which will enable us to do the work that was assigned to us by 
the House of Representatives, which is a duty imposed upon us to 
investigate re(ports regarding subversive activities in the United 
States. 

Mr. Stander. Well, I am more than willing to cooperate 

Mr. Velde. Now, just a minute. 

Mr. Stander. Because I have — I know of some subversive activities 
in the entertainment industry and, elsewhere in the country. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, the committee is interested 

Mr. Stander. If you are interested, I can tell you some right now. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Primarily in any subversive knowledge 
you have 

Mr. Stander. And I have knowledge of some subversive acticn. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). In the overthrow of the Government. 

Mr. Stander. I don't know about the overthrow of the Government. 

This committee has been investigating 15 years so far, and hasn't 
even found one act of violence. 

Mr. Velde. Now, the record will speak for itself. 

Mr. Stander. Well, I have been reading the record. 

Mr. Velde. That is entirely 

Mr. Stander. I know of some subversion, and I can help the com- 
mittee if it is really interested. 

Mr, Velde. Mr. Stander 

INIr. S'i'ANDER. I know of a grouji of fanatics wlio are desperately 
trying to undermine the (Constitution of the United States by depriv- 
ing artists and others of life, liberty, and pursuit of happines without 
due process of law. 

If you are interested in that, I would like to tell you about it. I 
can tell names, and I can cite instances, and I am one of the first 
victims of it; and if you are interested in that — and also a group of 
ex-Bundists, American Firsters, and anti-Semites, people who hate 
everybody, including Negroes, minority gi'oups. and most likely them- 
selves 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1353 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander, let me- 



Mr. Stander. And tliese people are engaged in the conspiracy, 
outside all the legal processes, to undermine our very fundamental 
American concepts upon which our entire system of jurisprudence 
exists 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. And who also- 



Mr. Velde. Let me tell you this: You are a witness before this 

committee 

Mr. Stander. Well, if you are interested- 



Mr. Velde (continuing) . A committee of the Congress of the United 

States 

Mr. Stander (continuing). I am willing to tell you- 



Mr. Velde (continuing). And you are in the same position as any 
other witness before this committee 

Mr. Stander (continuing). I am willing to tell you about these 
activities 

Mr. Velde (continuing) . Kegardless of your standing in the motion- 
picture world 

Mr. Standee (continuing). Which I think are subversive. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Or for any other reason. 

No witness can come before this committee and insult the com- 
mittee 

Mr. Standee. Is this an insult to the committee 

Mr. Velde (continuing). And continue to 

Mr. Stander (continuing). When I inform the committee I know 
of subversive activities which are contrary to the Constitution? 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander, unless you begin to answer these 
questions and act like a witness in a reasonable, dignified manner, 
under the rules of the committee, I will be forced to have you removed 
from this room. 

Mr. Stander. Well, I 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander, may I say- 



Mr. Stander. I am deeply shocked, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander, let me 

Mr. Standee. Let me explain myself. I don't mean to be contemp- 
tuous of this committee at all. 

Mr. Velde. Will you 

Mr. Stander. I want to cooperate with it. 

You said something — you said you- would like me to cooperate with 
you in your attempt to unearth subvei'sive activities. I know of such 
subversive activities. I began to tell you about them, and I am shocked 
by your cutting me off. You don't seem to be interested in the sort 
of subversive activities I know about. 

Mr. Velde. You Avill be asked questions relative to subversive activ- 
ities by counsel. 

Mr. Stander. All riglit. 

Mr. Velde. Just let him ask you. 

Mr. Stander. All right. Let him ask me, and I will be glad to 
answer. 

And I am not a dupe, or a dope, or a moe, or a schmoe, and every- 
thing I did — I was absolutely conscious of what I was doing, and I 
am not ashamed of everything I said in public or ])rivate; and I am 

33909—53 — pt. 3 3 



1354 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

very proud of my war record, my private record as a citizen and my 
public record as an entertainer. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Stander, we have heard a lot about that. Now, 
won't you be courteous enough to let our general counsel ask you the 
questions, and you cooperate and answer them 

Mr. Stander, I'm sorry 

Mr. D0YI.E (continuing). And not take- 



Mr. Stander. But there was an inference of the chairman that 
deeply irritated me 

Mr. Doyle. Well — — 

Mr. Stander. And that is I was out of order. I thought 

Mr. Doyle. You have made your record. 

Mr. Stander. I have tried 

Mr. Doyle. You have made your record, and it is very glorious 
and very fine. 

Mr. Stander. I am glad the committee 

Mr. Doyle. Now, won't you go ahead and cooperate- 



Mr. Stander (continuing). Thinks that is a very fine record. 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). And let somebody else do some talking? 

Mr. Stander. I would like that put in the record. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stander, is it correct to say, then, you were 
engaged as an actor in Hollywood between 1935 and 1948, with the 
exception of the period when you were in the Armed Services from 
1942 to 1944? 

Mr. Stander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were some of the major screen credits as an 
actor ? 

Mr. Stander. I made about a hundred screen plays, and luckily 
I have forgotten most of them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I am not asking you for all of them. 

Mr. Stander. Well, the major ones 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you just^ive us a few of the major ones ? 

Mr. Stander. Well, Deeds Goes to Town, Specter of the Eose, A 
Star is Born, The Milky Way, The Kid from Brooklyn — a number of 
other titles that are completely unimportant to me 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, after 

INIr. Stander. Over a hundred screen plays. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you recall whether you left Hollywood 
in 1948 or in 1949 ? 

Mr. Stander. I — it might have been 1948 or 1949. I'm not sure. 
I went to make a personal appearance tour of the night-club circuit, 
which was the only thing left to me after being blacklisted by the 
major studios 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Will you tell- 



Mr. Stander. By merely newspaper accusation, without anybody 
charging me with anything. 

In fact, the last time I apjoeared here the chairman very specifically 
said that this committee didn't charge me with anything, and I swore 
under oath — I would like, if you want, to introduce the record of my 
testimony here in August 27, 1940.^ 

Mr. Velde. Well, you are not 

Mr. Tavenner. I stated in the beirinninjr 



1 Lionel Stander testified before the Special Committee on Un-American Activities in 
executive session, on August 27, 1940. ' 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW YORK AREA 1355 

Mr. Velde (continuing) . Charged with anything. 

Mr, Standee. I am not charged 

Mr. Velde. You do understand, as I stated before, you are not 
charged with anything this time. 

Mr. Standee. I am not charged with anything ? 

Mr. Velde. You are not charged with anything, Mr. Stander. You 
are here 

Mr. Stander. I would like the record to show I am not charged with 
being a member of the Communist Party ; I am not charged with lying^ 
under oath, because I have made continuous oaths to various govern- 
mental agencies. 

You are not charging me with being a Communist ; right? 

Mr. Velde. We are 

Mr. Standee. I want 

Mr. Ci^RDY. Mr. Stander, will you subside ? 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Asking you questions relative to sub- 
versive— — 

Mr. Standee. I just want that clear. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander — — 

Mr. Standee. In other words, you are not charging me with being 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Velde. You are being asked questions, Mr. Stander, relative 
to 



Mr. Standee. But I don't- 
Mr-. Claudy. I^Ir. Stander 



Mr. Standee. Understand them. 

Mr. Claedy. Will you subside until the chairman finishes? 

Mr. Velde. You are brought here as a witness. 

Mr. Standee. I am a witness 

Mr. Velde. Please don't 

Mr. Standee. Not a defendant. 

I haven't been accused of anj'thing. I want that very straight, be- 
cause through newspaper headlines people get peculiar attitudes. 
Mere appearance here is tantamount — not just appearance; the mere 
fact, in my case, I was subpenaed, is tantamount — to being blacklisted 
because people say, "What is an actor doing in front of the Un-Ameri- 
can Activities Committee?" 

Mr. Claedy. Wliy did you want to appear before the committee so 
badly, then, if that is the case ? 

Mr. Standee. Because I was told by my agent if I appeared before 
the committee and the committee was a fair committee and allowed 
me to refute Lawrence's testimony that I would be able to get back in 
television and motion pictures. 

I had made 11 television shows in a row, and one of the biggest TV 
agencies and producers had told my agent that if I went — could get 
before the committee and could again swear under oath that I wasn't, 
I would have my own TV program, which meant over $150,000 a 
year to me. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Stander. So, I had a hundred-and-fifty-thousand-buck mo- 
tive— — 

Mr. Cl.\rdy. Mr. Stander, will you subside? 

Mr. Stander. For coming before the committee. 

Mr. Clardy. May I suggest something to you ? 



1356 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

If you have a genuine and earnest desire to clear up something 
"which should be cleared up, if you will just cooperate 

Now, don't say a word until I give you the opportunity. If you will 
just subside and answer the questions, fairlj^ and directly, and truth- 
fully, I am sure you will accomplish your purpose. 

Mr. Standee. Are you inferring —  — 

Mr. Clardy. Now, just a minute, Mr. Stander. 

Mr. Stander (continuing). Anything I said wasn't the truth? 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander, may I tell you something ? Unless you do 
that, whether you realize it or not, your performance is not going to 
h& regarded as funny, because this is serious business — if you will 
subside and answer the questions as they are put to you, frankly, hon- 
estly, and without attempting to be smart or funny, you will have 
accomplished your purpose ; otherwise, you are going to defeat it. 

Mr. Stander. I want to state right now I was not 

Mr. Clardy. Will you please subside ? 

Mr. Stander (continuing). Trying to be smart 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander — — 

Mr. Standee (continuing). Or funny. 

Mr. Clardy. Please be quiet, Mr. Stander, until I finish. 

Mr. Stander. Then can I make a statement ? 

Mr. Clardy. "Won't you be a gentleman and listen to the questions 
and answer them ? 

Unless you do, the very thing you want to refute is going to be left 
in the minds of the public indelibly. You are going to be stamped 
as something you may want to say you are not. 

Now, if you will just go along with this committee, you will have 
no trouble at all ; but if you don't, if you continue with what you are 
doing, or going to or have been doing, I am going to suggest to the 
chairman that you are putting on a show, that you are doing it for no 
other purpose than to make a show, and I am going to ask him to turn 
on the lights and cameras so that your performance may be recorded 
for posterity. 

Now, if you will subside and go along, I am not going to make that 
request. 

Mr. Stander. Mr. Chairman, may I state that, first, to clear up this 
misunderstanding, I have never been more deadly serious in my life. 

Mr. Clardy. All right, then 

Mr. Standee. If anything I said 

Mr. Clardy. That is the question. 

Mr. Standee (continuing) . Seemed humorous or funny, I assure you 
it was purely coincidental and doesn't mirror what I deeply feel, be- 
cause my entire career and the respect of my fellow artists and the 
American people is at stake, and I don't think that is very funny and 
I don't mean to be funny. 

Mr. Clardy. And I do not think so either. 

I am a new member of this committee, and I want to give you all 
possible opportunity to say what you have to say, but I want you to do 
it in the proper way. 

]\Ir. Standee. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Mr. Coiuisel 

Mr. Standee. Sir, I hope you understand my feeling. I am not try- 
ing to be funny or put on a show. If I did, I would have the lights on. 



COIVCMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1357 

Mr. Clardy. Well, you have been, sir, and may I tell you tliat, and 
it is not funny to me because this is intensely serious to me. 

Now, if you will go along with my suggestions, you will have no 
trouble. 

Mr. Standee. It is just as serious to me. My whole career is at stake. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stander, will you tell the committee, please, 
what your formal educational training has consisted of? 

Mr. Standee. Well, I went to public schools in New York City, 
Mount Vernon. I went to various prep schools; a few colleges. I 
didn't complete my college education. The last university I went to 
was the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yv'hen did you attend the University of North 
Carolina ? 

Mr. Standee. I think it it was 1927 or 1928. I think it was the 
class of 1930. I don't remember. I don't even remember. It was 
so long ago I can't remember. 

Mr. Tavennee. Now, ]\Ir. Stander, I want to. present to you some of 
the results of the investigation that the committee has made in Cali- 
fornia relating to activities of the Communist Party and which, if 
true, would indicate that j^ou have a special knowledge of things 
that the committee is incj[uiring about; and, as a basis for further 
questioning, I want to read you certain portions of the testimony, 
which you may consider until I have completed the reading of it, 
and then propound a question to you. 

Mr. Marc Lawrence, as mentioned before, was a witness before this 
committee on April 24, the day you were expected to be, in 1951. 
In the course of his testimony he admitted having been a member 
of the Communist Party for a comparatively short period of time, 
and he was asked to describe the circumstances under which he became 
a party member. This is part of his testimony : 

About 1938 I attended a number of cause parties [c-a-u-s-e — cause parties]. 
This was not because I was interested at the time, but that is what happened. 

There was a girl who played the piano very well, and she introduced me to 
these parties. I went to these parties with her, and then I met an actor named 
Lionel Stander, who said to me, "You want to get to know how to talk to these 
people. The thing for you to do is to go to classes." 

Then he testified he attended 12 meetings of the Communist Party 
as a member of a Communist Party cell, and being asked the specific 
question as to where these meetings were held, Mr. Lawrence in his 
reply stated : 

They were held in different homes in Hollywood. Some I remember; some I 
don't. 

I remember a guy named Lester Cole. Lester Cole was there and the guy 
who introduced me to the party, Lionel Stander — he was there. 

Now, at our hearings which began in Hollywood on September 17, 
1951, Mr. Harold J. Ashe, who was a member 

Mr. Boudin. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Is there some question ? 

Mv. Boudin. May I just see it ? 

Mr. Velde. That is a public record j'ou are reading from ? 

ISIr. Boudin. Yeah ; that is. 

Go right ahead. 

Mr. Tavennee. ISIr. Harold J. xVshe, who was at one time a member 
of the State committee of the Communist Party, and who was a Com- 



1358 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

munist Party organizer in Los Angeles County, testified before the 
committee and told of his own connections with the Communist Party 
as a functionary, and he advised the connnittee that it was at his 
instance that professional cells of the Communist Party were lirst 
established in Hollywood. 

He described the reasons for that — namely, the principal reason 
being that members of the professions would not be likely to become 
Communist Party members unless they had some special protection, 
some special secrecy; and, for that reason, these professional cells 
in the Communist Party were first established, in which the rank- 
and-file members of the Communist Party were just as unaware as 
outsiders of the membership of those cells. 

He testified that the first of those cells was given the name Z-100 ; 
and then they broke it down into two cells. The second one was called 
Z-150. 

Later those cells were further subdivided, and we find the lawyers 
all in one cell; we find the doctors all in one cell, and we find the 
screenwriters and various other persons in diflferent cells of the pro- 
fession cells of the party. 

Now, Mr. Ashe was asked this question : 

I wish you would give to the committee the names of the members of these 
professional units whose membership was to be kept secret. 

Mr. Ashe then proceeded to give information relating to various per- 
sons who were members of it, and in the course of that this is his 
testimony : 

Lucy Stander, who was the wife of J. Slander, also known as Lionel Stander 



Now, I do not propose 

Mr. Standee. At what time was that ? 

Mr. Ta\tnnek (continuing). To ask any question 

Mr. Standee. What date was that? 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not propose to ask any question regarding 

your wife 

Mr. Standee. I am not married. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Or your former wife. 

Mr. Standee. Which one? 

I am asking that seriously. 

Which one ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, the name mentioned here was Lucy. 

Mr. Keaenet. Do you remember that name ? 

Mr. Standee. Yeah ; I remember her, vaguely. 

Mr. Tav^nnee. Let me read that again : 

Lucy Stander, who was at that time the wife of J. Stander, also known as 
Lionel Stander. 

Mr. Standee. Wliat time was that? What year? 

Mr. Tavennee. I think it was along about 1936 . 

I'll try to verify that exact date for you. 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Tavennee (continuing). Presently I will examine and fuid 
out. 

Mr. ScHEEEE. It was evidently the time he was married to Lucy, 
wasn't it? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would think so. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1359 

Mr. Stander. The reason why I ask — because I wasn't married to 
Lucy in 1936. 

Mr. SciiERER. Well, that is the reason I said 

Mr. Stander. That is why I am asking about the date. 

Mr. Scheri<:r. It was evidently the time you were married to Lucy. 

You would know when you were married to Lucy, wouldn't you? 

Mr. Stander. Yes. We separated in 1935 — the early part of the 
year. 

That's why I'm asking the question. 

Mr. BouDiN. Could we have the page ? 

Mr. Stander. Could we have the page of that information ? 

jNIy counsel 

Mr. Tavenner. 1429.^ 

I will attempt to read it again : 

Lucy Stander, who was the wife of J. Stander, also known as Lionel Stander — 
he was a character actor, I believe, in Hollywood. He, however, was not in the 
unit for any great length of time. I recall distinctly that he was brought in and a 
very short time later was transferred out. I don't know the reason for the trans- 
fer. I think it was arranged directly between Stander and the county office of the 
party. However, his wife remained in one of these professional units. 

Question : You are definite in your statement, however, that Lionel Stander was 
a member of this group? 

Mr. Ashe. Lionel Stander was definitely a member of this group. He was 
transferred in and I handled the transfer. Of that I am positive. 

Mr. Clardy. Who is speaking when you are saying that ? 
Mr. Tavenner. This is Mr. Ashe, a former functionary of the Com- 
munist Party, His name is Harold J. Ashe — A-s-h-e. 
A further questioned was asked : 

Do you recall from what place he was transferred ? 
Mr. Ashe said : I believe New York City. 

Mr. Stander. May I interrupt ? 

Mr. BouDiN. In that time which refers to his wife's statement — 
1934 — he wasn't in Hollywood in 1934. 

Mr. Stander. It is page 1468. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you will just wait and let me make this state- 
ment, then you will have an opportunity to reply. 

Mrs. Ashe — Mrs. INIildred Ashe — formerly the wife of 

Mr. Kearney. Well, Mr. Chairman- 



Mr. Tavenner (continuing), formerly the wife- 
Mr. Stander. What is the question ? 

I am trying to get 

Mr. Kearney, Mr. Chairman. 
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kearney. 
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Counsel- 



Mr. Stander. I am trying to get an answer to this. I am trying 
to find out what the question is. 

Mr. Kearney. I want to say, frankly, I am getting a little bit con- 
fused here on the long dissertations of the testimony of these wit- 
nesses. I was wondering if you could break it down and ask the 
question so we will be familiar with what you are reading there. 

Mr. Moulder. Just question the witness on each count. 

Mr. Kearney. Yes. 



'Communist Infiltration of Hollywood Motion-Picture Industry, pt. 4, September 17, 
1951. 



1360 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Moulder. I think that is a very good idea. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I proposed to do that, but I wanted, first, to 
si low from these facts, if they were true, what his knowledge should 
be and then ask him about his knowledge and give him an opportunity 
to refute any parts of this testimony that he desires to refute. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean you want to paint the whole picture first 

Mr. Tavenner. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. And then go back over it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. How close to the end are you? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I am nearly at the end. I have one more 
witness besides the one I started with. 

Mrs. Ashe testified that she had helped to organize this professional 
cell, Z-100, and was, herself, a member of it. She was asked a question : 

Will you state to the committee the names of those who were members of 
the professional club whom you can now recall? 

Mrs. Ashe replied : 

Well, Lionel Stander, for a short time, was in the Z-100. His wife, Lucy, was 
recruited into Z-100. 

And she then proceeds to name other persons. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you going to cross-examine him on each witness, 
Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Further, Mrs. Ashe testified that she had made collections for the 
Communist Party prior to her knowing he was a member of the 
Communist Party and before Mr. Stander had become a member of 
Z-100. 

Then, there was another witness who appeared before the com- 
mittee 

Mr. Stander. Pardon me, Mr. Chairman- 



Mr. Tavenner (continuing). By the name • 

Mr. Stander (continuing). I can't remember all of those. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will give you 

Mr. Velde. Counsel will go back. 

Mr. Stander. I see. 

Mr. Velde. That is the idea. 

Mr. Clardy. That was the purpose of my question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Stander. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, there appeared the testimony of Mr. Martin 
Berkelev, who testified on September 19 

Mr. Clardy. 1951 ? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1951, in which Mr. Martin Berkeley described a 
meeting at the home of Mr. Tuttle, a director — Mr. Frank Tuttle — 
at which persons other than Communist Party members were present 
and at which V. J. Jerome spoke. 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Clardy. V. J. Jerome being an important Communist Party 
functionary? 

Mr. Tavenner. He was a high functionary in the Communist 
Party, the head of the cultural section of the party at that time. 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1361 

Mr, Tavenner, And then Mr. Berkeley proceeded to tell the pur- 
poses of V. J. Jerome in his appearance in Hollywood in connection 
with the Communist Party, and then this question was asked Mr. 
Berkeley : 

Well, as a result of his work, what occurred? 

That is in relation to the work of V. J. Jerome. 
Mr. Berkeley replied : 

As a result of the work that was done by .Terome, groups of actorsj were en- 
listed in the current squabble that was going on at the guild, inside the Screen 
Actors* Guild. 

Then this question : 

Now, before we come to a discussion of that, can you give us the names of 
persons known to you at the time, persons who later were known to you, to be 
members of the Communist Party, who had attended this first meeting at the 
home of Frank Tuttle, which was being addressed by V. J. Jerome? 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 
Mr. Tamsnner. And Mr. Berkeley, in naming the persons, had this 
to say : 

I also met for the first time liionel Stander, who later became chairman of the 
actors' fraction. With him was his wife — his then wife — Alice Twitchell. 

It is interesting to know some time later during the strike at the Hollywood 
Citizens' News, for which I gave a benefit at my home for the striking news- 
papermen, at which we raised approximately a thousand dollars, I believe, to 
help the Newspaper Guild— and I am very proud that we did — Stander was at 
this meeting and called me over into a corner and introduced me to Comrade 
Harry Bridges. 

Question : You refer to Stander as the chairman of the actors' fraction, if I 
understood you correctly. Then he describes what is meant by "fraction." 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 
Mr. Tavenner. He was then asked the question : 

Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting in the home of Lionel 
Stander? 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Berkeley replied : 

I did, sir. There was a meeting called at the home of Stander, at which V. .T. 
Jerome was present, that dealt with the matter of the struggle then going on in 
the Screen Actors' Guild. 

And, then, one more matter : Mr. Martin Berkeley testified before 
the committee in executive session on January 29, 1952, at which time 
he stated, with reference to Mr. Belfrage, who was a witness here 
yesterday : 

My first official party contact with Belfrage was at his home at a meeting nt- 
tended by Herbert Biberman, Gale Sondergaard, Lionel Stander, and his wife, 
Alice. 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing to read) : 

Nobody was there except party members. 

Mr. Boudin. "Would you repeat the last thing — I'm sorry — about 
Belfrage? 

Mr. TAAT2NNER. The entire statement? 
Mr. Boudin. No; the Belfrage item. 
Mr. Stander. About Belfrage. 

33909— 53— pt. 3 4 



1362 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. BouDiN. I am very sorry. I missed that last. 
Mr. Tavenner (reading) : 

My first official contact with Belfrage was at his home at a meeting attended 
by Herbert Biberman, Gale Sondergaard, Lionel Stander, and his wife, Alice. 
Nobody was there except party members. 

Mr. BouDiN. Is there a date? 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not know the date. 

Mr. Stander. I think I can answer. I'll try to 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Well, now, if you will just 

Mr. Stander (continuing). Give you an all-inclusive answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you will first answer my question, please. 

Now, Mr. Stander, this is testimony which the investigation has 
produced and which, if true, would mean that you were prominent in 
the work of the actors' fraction of the Communist Party, having been 
chairman at least of that fraction of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Stander. Is that your statement? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you a question. 

Mr. Stander. Oh, I can't follow it. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right, I will begin over. 

I said : From this testimony, if it is true, it would appear that 
you had been active among the actors in connection with Commu- 
nist Party matters and should have considerable knowledge regard- 
ing the activities of the Comnmnist Party. 

So, I want to ask you the question whether or not you were a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party at any time during the period when 
you were in California between 1935 and 1948? 

Mr. Stander. This is a continuing committee. I made a state- 
ment under oath in 1940. I would like you to read that into the 
record. 

You asked me a question that took about 20 minutes. This will take 
exactly 3 minutes. 

Would you mind reading this? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question ? 

Mr. Stander. I think 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question, please? 

Mr. Stander. I sw^ore under oath before this committee, in 1940, 
that I was not a member of the Communist Party. I also 

Mr. TA^^NNER. What do you say now ? 

Mr. Stander. I also swore in 1940 before the Los' Angeles grand 
jury, its district attorney, and I forced my way in there. I was a 
voluntary witness, and one of the witnesses used here and John Leech, 
who was later characterized by Judge Landis as a psychoi^athic liar, 
made similar statements to the statements made by Marc Lawrence and 
others. 

I swore under oath before the Los Angeles grand jury and the dis- 
trict attorney — and the district attorney's bureau saw fit to clear me 
and released a statement to the press absolving me of any participation 
whatsoever, and the grand jury also cleared me of the charges made 
before them. 

So, I have already been cleared by the district attorney, and tlie 
grand jury said I was a fine, patriotic, American citizen. 

I am reading from my 1940 testimony 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1363 

Mr. Standee (continuing). Which is the first time it ever has 
been released to the press 

Mr. Velde (continuing). You promised me you would answer the 
question. 

Mr. Stander (continuing). And the story on that appeared on the 
front pages of all the Los Angeles newspapers. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. I have sworn under oath in 1940 twice. I swore under 
oath in an affidavit for the Koyal Canadian Air Force and for the 
United States Air Force. 

I worked in a very sensitive spot, in the headquarters' staff, and, 
from my understanding, it is standard operating procedure to be 
cleared by the FBI. 

I cannot see it would serve the purposes of this committee to ask me 
about periods during 1934, 1935, and 1936 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. And, incidentally, while you are mentioning that, 
there's obvious contradictions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, will you- 



Mr. Standee. Miss Ashe said in 1934 she collected dues from me 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee (continuing). And some people. I wasn't in Holly- 
wood then. 

Her husband said it was in 1936. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. And my wife left me in 1935. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander, may I remind you that you have promised 
to answer the questions 

Mr. Standee. I have answered. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). And now will you- 



Mr. Standee. I have sworn under oath, and if there is any- 



Mr. Tavennee. I haven't asked vou what you have done in the past. 

Mr. Standee. If any of these charges be true, why haven't I been 
indicted ? 

Mr. Velde. Will you now answer the question 

Mr. Tavennee. Yes. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). As to your 

Mr. Standee. I swore under oath before various governmental 
agencies, and 

Mr. Tavennee. That is not my question. 

Mr. Velde. You are before the Un-American Activities Committee 
at the present time 

Mr. Standee. That's right. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). And will you answer 

Mr. Standee. And one of your witnesses 

Mr. Velde (continuing). The questions put by counsel? 

Mr. Standee. I am trying to answer, to the best of my ability. 

I was asked a 25-minute question and I can't even give a 2-minute 
answer. T don't think that is fair. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Standor, now, I suggested something to you a 
moment ago. You have been asked a straightforward question as to 
whether or not you were a Communist during a certain period. Now, 
answer that 

Mr. Standee. I swore under oath 



1364 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Clardy. Yes or no. 
Mr. Standee. I swore- 



Mr. Clardy. Or refuse to answer it on constitutional grounds. 
Mr. Standee. I swore under oath in 1940, and that was covered by 
this same committee. 

Mr. ScHERER. Why don't you swear under oath now whether you 

were? 

Mr. Standee. You want me to give you the reason ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

Mr. Standee. Because by using psychopaths — and I have the letter 
here giving the mental history of Marc Lawrence, who came from a 
mental sanitorium — he suffered a mental breakdown, and I gave you 
the names of the doctors — and you used that psychopath and used 
previously this man, Leech, who the district attorney and the grand 
jury of Los Angeles didn't believe, throughout his charges, and they 
cleared me — so, I don't want to be responsible for a whole stable of 
informers, stool pigeons, and psychopaths and ex-political heretics, 
who come in here beating their breast and say, "I am awfully sorry; 
I didn't know what I was doing. Please — I want absolution; get 
me back into pictures," and they will do anything — they will name 
anybody — they will go to any extent necessary to get back into pictures, 
and they will mention names and name anybody. 

Mr. Velde. Now, will you answer the question? 

Mr. Standee. Therefore, I decline to answer that question because 
it clearly is not relevant to the purpose of this committee, and it vio- 
lates my rights under the first and fifth amendments of the Constitu- 
tion of the United States. 

And, incidentally, don't give me the routine about hiding, because 
the only people, witnesses, who hide here are witnesses like 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. These people named here, who hide behind the cloak 
of legal responsibility ; and I know, because I tried to get somewhere 
in the courts of New York, and I find the only people who hide behind 
immunity are the witnesses, the stool pigeons, used here, and that 
you are using, arrogating 

Mr. Tavennee. Have you finished ? 

Mr. Standee. No ; just let me finish, and I will finish the statement. 

My estimation of this committee is that this committee arrogates 
judicial and punitive powers which it does not possess. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you a Communist today ? 

Mr. Stander. No ; I am not a Communist today. 

If you ask me was I a Communist yesterday — no ; I wasn't, and I 
swore under oath, and it's a matter of public record 

Mr. Clardy. Were you at any time— — 

Mr. Standee (continuing). And I have a passport and I have 

Ml. Clardy. Were you at anytime ever a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Standee. You know that is a trick question to trap me to answer 
the same question. 

I would be an absolute idiot 

Mr. Claedy. No ; I don't think you are. 

Mr. Standee (continuing). To answer that. 

Mr. Claedy. No. 



COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1365 

Mr. Stander. Then, if you don't, you must think I am a political 

moron. 

You are now— do you think I am a political moron, sir i 

Mr. Clardt. I am asking you : Were you ever at any time a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Stander. My record is absolutely clear. 

How many times do I have to swear under oath before governmental 



agencies 



Mr. Clardy, Just this once. 

Mr. Stander. And how many times do you have to use my name to 
get headlines 

Mr. Clardy. Just this once. 

Mr. Stander. And how many 

Mr. Clardy, Just this once. 

Mr. Stander. I have already sworn under oath I am not now a 
member of the Communist Party 

Mr. Clardy. And never have been ? 

Mr. Stander. And I swore in 1940 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, I 

Mr. Stander. And I swore in 1940 I was never a member of the 
Communist Party, and never will be ; and I would have to be pretty 
stupid if I swore that in 1940 and know the FBI automatically gets 
copies of every complaint that I joined the Communist Party later — 
I would have to be a complete idiot. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask what period of time 3'ou are referring to ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Between 1935 and 1948. 

Mr. BouDiN. Between what ? 

Mr. Stander. I beg your pardon, sir. I've been following you very 
carefully. You referred to 1934, 1935, 1936, and 1938. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, I didn't hear his question. 

Mr. Stander. The testimony of Ashe and Lawrence 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read my question ? 

Mr. Stander. You want to repeat that 25-minute question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; I only asked you a question which did not con- 
tain over 15 or 20 words. 

Mr. Stander. It seems to me this is a disgraceful experience for me 
to have to go through, when I answered and swore under oath in 
peacetime, and in wartime, when I was of draft age and enlisted in 
the RCAF, and then for the United States Air Force. This is a ter- 
ribly disgraceful experience to go through, to be brought here because 
of these insinuations and accusations, and something which you won't 
dare charge me with. 

You said, and Congressman Dies stated specifically, I was not 
charged with an^lhing, and this committee says I am not charged with 
anything 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, may I 

Mr. Stander. Yet, you are trying to trick me- 



Mv. Stander (continuing). Into depriving me of my constitutional 
rights. 

You know I swore under oatli. If there was any real evidence to 
refute my sworn testimony, I would be indicted ; I wouldn't be brought 
here before this committee. 

And it's 2 years since I requested an appearance — 2 years — during 
which this fanatic group of subversives have blacklisted artists and 



1366 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

are attempting to impose censorship on the free theater that we all be- 
lieve in and love ; and you people have made^ — are in a way — I don't 
say consciously — instrumental in aiding them 

Mr, Doyle. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Standee. Because once you tell 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Stander. Once you tell any 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Stander 

Mr. Velde. Just a minute, members of the committee. I would like 
to make a statement. 

The committee is about to go into recess for 10 minutes. 

Now, the committee or some subcommittee will stay here until you 
finally answer the questions put to you without giving a lot of ex- 
traneous material, or decline to answer them- 



Mr. Stander. I was asked a 25-minute question 

Mr. Velde (continuing). On constitutional grounds. 

Mr. Standee, And you won't even 

Mr. Velde. Now, Mr. Stander, just a minute. I am talking. 

Mr. Stander. I am — pardon me. I am sorry, sir, I didn't mean 
to interrupt you until you finished. 

Mr. Velde. I wish you would, Mr. Stander, seriously talk to your 
counsel and consider answering the questions because this committee 
has a lot of work to do, we have a lot of other witnesses, and we must 
hear your testimony that is relevant to the purposes of the committee ; 
and, so, as I said, we will have to stay here indefinitely until we do get 
your answers to these questions. 

Mr. Standee. In order to clarify that question of 25 minutes, will 
you please tell me how it's relevant to the purpose of the committee to 
discover whether or not I swore under oath truthfully in 1940 ? 

Mr. Velde. The question that was asked you by counsel 

Mr. Stander. What legislation- 



Mr. Velde (continuing). Was not a question 

Mr. Stander (continuing). Can be gone into 

Mr. Velde. Now, just a minute. 

Mr. Standee. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. The question asked you by counsel was not a 25-minute 
question by any means. He read some other statements that had been 
made before this committee. Then he based a very simple question on 
the facts that he had read, or the testimony that he had read, and the 
question could be answered very easily. 

Now, I wish you would consider, while we are taking this recess, 
answering the questions. 

Mr. Standee. I just have one simple half -minute statement. The 
reason why I got so excited was because 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in recess for 10 minutes, 

(Wliereupon, at 11 : 10 a, m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 11 :20 a.m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 11 : 25 a. m., the following committee 
members being present: Representatives Harold H. Velde (chair- 
man). Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Morgan M. Moulder, and 
Clyde Doyle.) 

Mr, Velde, The committee will be in order. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1307 

Mr. Standee. Will you turn out the lights? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Velde. Just a minute. 

Will the television cameras and newsreel cameras please desist? 

Will you please turn off the lights and desist from taking further 

film? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Reporter, I would like for you to read back the 
question to the witness which I asked — the last question^because the 
witness indicated some uncertainty as to what the question was. 

(The reporter read the question as follows :) 

From this testimony, if it is true, it would appear that you had been active 
among the actors in connection with Communist Party matters and should have 
considerable knowledge regarding the activities of the Communist Party in that 
connection. So, I want to ask you the question whether or not you were a 
member of the Communist Party at any time during the period when you were in 
California between 1935 and 1948? 

Mr. Stander. I thought my answer was clear, but I'll clarify it and 
make it simple in one statement. 

I decline to answer this under constitutional rights which were just 
recently reaffirmed by Judge Youngdahl in the Lattimore case. 

I have a freedom of belief. 

You, as Congressmen, uphold the Constitution and you know that 
Federal judges have said it is not only your right, but your duty, 
whenever a congressional committee trespaj-ses upon areas from which 
it's forbidden to — that it is the duty and right of the citizen to avail 
themselves of this privilege. 

Mr. Velde. You are declining 

Mr. Standp:r. And this is just 

Mr. Velde. You are declining to answer, Mr. Stander? 

]Mr. Stander. Also, under the fifth amendment 

Mr. Velde. Just a minute. You are declining to answer 

]Mr. Standee. Under the first amendment — — 

Mr. Velde. And you have cited legal grounds for your refusal to 
answer. 

Mr. BouDiN. He hasn't completed his answer. 

]N[r. Stander. I haven't completed my answer yet, sir. 

Mr. Boudin. Can he complete his answer? 

Mr. Stander. I decline under the first amendment, which entitles 
me to freedom of belief; under the fifth amendment —  — 

Mr. SciiERER. Fifth amendment? 

Mr. Stander. Whicli states that I shall not be forced to testifv 
against myself, and also in which there is no inference of guilt — it 
is designed to protect tlie innocent — and under tlie ninth amendment, 
which gives me other rights — for instance, the right to get up in the 
union ball, which I did, and introduce a right — introduce a resolu- 
tion condemning this congressional committee for its abuse of powers 
in attempting to impose censorship iipon the American theater. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Stander 

]\rr. Boudin. I don't think he has finished. 

]\Ir. Stander. And, finally, in my estimation, this entire question 
is not relative to the purposes of this committee, because I can't under- 
stand why a question dating back to 1948, 193G, or 1935 concerning 
statements made by a bunch of stool pigeons and informers can aid 
this committee in recommending any legislation to Congress, which 
I understand is the purpose of this committee. 



1368 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stander, in the course of the testimony which 
I read you from Mr. Berkeley, Mr. Martin Berkeley 

Mr. Standee. I can save the time of the connnittee — anything else 
you will ask me, without taking any more time, I will decline to an- 
swer on the aforementioned grounds and my constitutional privileges 
under the first, fifth, and ninth amendments 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. Mr Stander 

Mr. Standee. Along those 

(At this point Mr. Stander conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Stander. Along those lines. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stander, you have insisted you made a very 
earnest request to appear before this committee to answer and ex- 
plain — 

Mr. Stander. Wait a minute. To answer? 

Mr. Tavenner. Answer and explain matters relating to you. 

Mr. Stander. Answer what? 

Mr. Tavenner. Answer testimony. 

Mr. Stander. Answer charges? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; not charges. 

Mr. Stander. I attempted to do it in the courts, where I am pro- 
tected by the Anglo-Saxon procedures 

Mr. Tavenner. AVell, you were 

Mr. Stander. iVnd under our Constitution, where I can cross-ex- 
amine and where a witness has complete legal responsibility 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, I understand 

Mr. Stander. Therefore, I don't choose to pit my word against a 
psychopathic liar, who was characterized as such by Judge Lanclis, or 
a man out of a mental institution. Marc Lawrence, who is a refugee 
from that case. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Martin Berkeley? 

Mr. Stander. This is getting real — I told you any question along 
those lines by stool pigeons, informers, ps3'chopathic liars, or any- 
body — for instance, Mr. Berkeley, I read in the minutes that first he 
said he was not a member of the Communist Party; then, when he 
realized you had the goods on him, he came here and rattled off 150 
names. 

This is, in my idea, an incredible witness. 

Mr. Velde. Do you decline to answer that question ? 

Mr. Stander. And I decline to answer 

Mr. Tavenner. Was 

Mr. BouDiN. Let him finish. 

Mr. Stander. Under my constitutional rights, which I am proud 
of, and I resent the inference here that anyone Avho uses it, which our 
forefathers fought for, is guilty of anything. 

(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., entered the hearing room 
at this point.) 

]\Ir. Stander. You know this is an ancient right of the American 
people. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Counsel 

Mr. Standee. I come from a — my name is Stander. It was adopted 
in 19 io because, unfortunately, in feudal Spain my ancestors didn't 
have the protection of the United States Constitution and were relig- 
ious refugees, ■- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1369 

And you know that the Puritans used it— the people that established 
this country used this right ; and I have done a little research on this 
since you called me, and the first experience of it was 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question I asked you ? 

Mr. Stander. And I am not being sacrilegious — was when Jesus 
Christ was asked by Pontius Pilate, "These judges have a lot of 
witnesses against you," and He said nothing. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you a question 

Mr. Stander. Yes; and I answered the question, and I am a deeply 
religious man. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Wliich had nothing to do with re- 
ligion. 

Mr. Stannder. Yes; it does, because that question is designed to 
trap me. You know, as I stated the first time I swore under oath 

Mr. Tavenner. You haven't sworn under oath in answer to these 
questions. 

Mr. Stander. I swore under oath in 1950. I swore under oath 
before the Los Angeles grand jury, and I don't want to take up the 
time of the committee — you get me excited — and any questions along 
tliat line I will decline to answer on the gi'ounds of constitutional 
privileges. 

Mr. Clardy. If you don't want to take up the time of the committee, 
why do you insist on making speeches ? 

Mr. Stander. This is not a speech. If I can be asked a 25-minute 
question, I am entitled to answer 

Mr. Clardy. Your answer isn't 

Mr. Stander (continuing). These things which you 

Mr. Clardy. Along the lines of the question. 

Mr. Stander (continuing). By inference and accusation you accuse 
me 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I move- 



Mr. Standee (continuing) . By reference and accusation you accuse 

with 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). We go into executive session- 



Mr. Stander (continuing). Because you know this committee can't 
charge me with anything. You have no judicial power. Your pur- 
pose is investigative, and I can't see how any of these questions can 
aid the committee in its legal purpose, which is to recommend legis- 
lation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Martin Berkeley 

Mr. Velde. Just a minute, counsel. 

It is very apparent that the witness is excited and nervous, as he 
stated. 

Mr. Stander. Not as nervous as Marc Lawrence, who came out of a 
mental institution. 

Mr. Velde. You said you would cooperate with the committee and 
give it the benefit 

Mr. Stander. Yes, 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Of your knowledge. 

Mr. Stander. Against the blacklisting 

Mr. Velde. So, it is the order- 



Mr. Stander. I know of some- 
Mr. Velde. It is the order 

33909— 53— pt. 3 5 



1370 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Stander. Pardon me. I am sorry. 

Mr. Velde. It is the order of the Chair and this committee that 
you be continued under subpena and the investigation and hearing be 
continued in your case until a future date, at which time you will be 
notified by our counsel. 

Mr. Stander. May I make one statement now ? 

Mr. Clardy. No. 

INIr. Stander. This is precisely what was done in 1940, and I never 
got any action. 

Mr. Velde. You are dismissed 

Mr. Stander. All right. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Mr. Stander, for the present. 

The committee will be in order, please. 

The Chair would like to make a statement. 

One of the witnesses who appeared here day before yesterday, Mrs. 
Dorothy Funn, we understand, has been threatened with bodily harm. 
For anyone who is interested, Mrs. Funn has been subpenaed again by 
this committee and she is now under the jurisdiction of this com- 
mittee. Any further threats of bodily injury or any type of threat 
made to Mrs. Funn will be referred to the FBI for immediate in- 
vestigation. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Jay Gorney. 

Is Mr. Jay Gorney in the hearing room ? 

Mr. Gorney. Yes, sir, 

Mr, Chairman, may I ask that the lights be 

Mr. Velde. Will you be sworn first, please? 

Mr. Gorney. Certainly. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this com- 
mittee, do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Gorney. Yes, sir. 

Now, may I please ask, because it disturbs me — I am not an actor, 
nor am I used to being in front of the public — I am a songwriter — it 
disturbs me to talk — if you will be good enough to remove the lights. 

Mr. Velde. Yes; the television cameras and the newsreel cameras 
^vill be turned off and the lights also turned off. 
- Mr. Gorney. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

TESTIMONY OF JAY GORNEY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

BELLA ABZUG 

Mr, Tavenner. You are Mr. Jay Gorney ? 

Mr. Gorney. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell your name? 

Mr. Gorney, J-a-y G-o-r-n-e-y. 

Mr. Tavenner, Are you accompanied by counsel ? 

Mr. Gorney, Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner, "Will counsel please identify herself for the record ? 

Mrs, Abzug. Mrs. Bella Abzug, 205 West 34th Street, New York, 
N. Y. 

IMr. Taat:nner, Wlien and where w^ere you born, Mr, Gorney ? 

Mr. Gorney, I was born in Bialystek, Poland, which was under the 
Russian czar, in 1896. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1371 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. GoRNEY. In 1906. 

Mr. Tavenner. xYre you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr. GoRNEY. I am a citizen by my father's naturalization. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

(Representative Bernard W. Kearney reentered the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. GoRNEY. I am a songwriter and, as a songwriter, I have learned 
my profession both from a practical standpoint and a theatrical stand- 
point. In other words, as a songwriter, trying to write songs, it is 
necessary for me not only to express myself intellectually but emo- 
tionally, and perhaps I — I got my first education, I think, in Poland, 
in a pogrom, where my father decided — we were very little then — 
to find a land where we could be free — we could have freedom from 
fear and live a life as a father wants to bring his children and fam- 
ily up. 

We came to America in 1906, and we were so grateful and so thank- 
ful because when we settled in Detroit — my first schooling was the 
Detroit public schools. I got my first musical training in the syna- 
gogue, singing in the choir; and my training — my formal trainino; — 
was, I suppose, in the public schools and the Detroit schools. Sly 
teachers were wonderful. They were- 



Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, excuse me 

Mr. GoRNEY (continuing). Very tolerant. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't want to interrupt you. 

Mr. GoRNEY. I will 

jNIr. Tavenner. You are going a little far afield of my question. 

Mr. GoRNEY. I apologize, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t;nner. I want only, for the information of the committee, 
a general statement 

Mr. GoRNEY. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. About your educational training. Although I 
haven't asked for it, you gave it. 

Mr. GoRNEY. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. If there is any other formal training, will you give 
it, please ? 

Mr. GoRNEY. Yes. 

Forgive me. I am only trying 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. That is all right. Just get to the point here. 

]\Ir. GoRNEY. I went through the l)etroit public schools, and I re- 
member the proudest moment in my life was when my father applied 
for citizenship and he asked me to prepare him. Having studied 
history and the questions of citizenship, I told him about the divisions 
of government and I told liim about the President and Vice President, 
and also Avhat attracted me most was his fear that he would not be 
able to remember the Bill of Rights, the first amendment to the Con- 
stitution, and I — I — being somewhat musical — tried to help him with 
it, because it's difficult for a person born in another country to learn 
the words. 

And, so, I remember setting the first amendment of the Constitu- 
tion to a little childish tune, and I sort of sang it for him in trying 
to get him to memorize. 

If you will forgive me, I would like to shoAv you what I mean, be- 
cause it has a pertinence in my further education. 



1372 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

It went something like this [singing] : 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion— 



Mr. Tavenner. I thought you said you were not an actor. 

Mr. GoRNEY. Beg your pardon. I dichi't mean — I am not an actor^ 

believe me. I am trying to be 

]\Ir. Tavenxer. Well, it is rather muisual for a person to sing a 



song- 



Mr. Gorney. I understand. 

Mr. Tavexner (continuing). During the course- 



Mr. Gorney. Well, ]Mr. Tavenner, you have alloAved other singers 
in this committee from time to time. They have sung long songs — 
trained pigeons, I call them 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness 

Mr. Gorney. And they have done quite a little singing. 

May I continue ? 

Mr. ScuERER. Not with a song. 

Mr. Gorney. Well, I will try not to 

Mr. Kearney. Well, Mr. (chairman 

Mr. Gorney. I will try not to 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Gorney. Pardon. 

Mr. Kearney. As far as I am personally concerned, I would like to 

liear the gentleman give his recitation. We have listened to one char- 

.ncter here, and I think the gentleman shoukl be allowed to tell, in his 

own words, just Avhat liis educational advantages were, and how it 

came about. 

Mr. Gorney. Thank you. 

Mr. Kearney. I see nothing wrong 

Mr. Velde. Of course, Mr. Kearney- 



Mr. Tavenner. That is what I was trying to get him to say. 

Mr. Velde. Of course, we have a number of other witnesses we hope 
will give some information to the connnittee tliat we are seeking — and 
if we had plenty of time, I might like to listen to some musical comedy^ 
or something like that, too. 

Mr. Gorney. I am — this is not musical comedy. This is 

IMr. Velde. Well, we really shoidd get on with the business of this 
committee. 

Mr. Gorney. I would like very much to explain. 

Mr. Velde. If you can do it briefly — — 

Mr. Gorney. The Bill of Eights means a lot to me. 

Mr. Velde. If you can do it briefly^ 

Mr. Gorney. I will try, sir, if you will permit me. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). We would appreciate it very much. 

Mr. Gorney. I want to say the little song I tried to sing, Avliicli 
talked about the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and so on, 
had an impression on me at the time not too great because it was a 
childish memorization; but when I graduated from high school, I 
went to the University of Michigan, and I was very grateful to my 
country for allowing me to ])ai'ticipate in educational opportunity. 

Mr. Clardy. May I interru])t 

Mr. Gorney. I studied arts. 

Mr. Ci-ARDY (contimiing). To ask him Avhat year he was at my 
school ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1373 

What year was that ? 

Mr. GoRNFA'. I started in 1917, and graduated in 1919. 

Mr. Clardy. You started in 

Mr. GoRNEY. I beg your ]iardon. I started in 1913. I graduated in 
1919—1917 and 1919, as I will explain. 

Mr. Clardy. From the literary college there, as I take it? 

Mr. GoRNEY. From the literary college there, I graduated in 1917 ; 
and I was permitted to write, if you recall, Senator, or Congress- 
man — — 

Mr. Clardy. That's better. 

Mr. GoRNEY (continuing). Michigan operas at Michigan. I wrote 
five of them, and I got my great training — really practical training — 
about my business of writing music for music shows from the Univer- 
sity of Michigan. 

tjpon graduation in the arts — incidentally, I played my way 
through school. I had a band and my expense was covered that way. 
I learned a great deal, and upon graduation from the College of 
Science and Arts, where I also studied music, the question was what 
would I do to continue ; and since my studies in history — my gratitude 
to my country was quite intense at the time — I decided to study law. 

I entered the law school under Dean Bates, and I recall very dis- 
tinctly, though I wasn't very good in constitutional law, when the 
question on the examination paper came, "What is the first amend- 
ment to the Constitution?" I was very delighted that I remembered 
that little tune — "Congress shall make no law respecting an establish- 
ment of," and all about freedom of speech and all about the rights 
of the people. 

Mr. Clardy. You were probably the only member in the class who 
really remembered it. 

Mr. GoRNEY. I think so. 

It is a difficult thing. Nevertheless, that Constitution of the United 
States of ours is a very beautiful thing. The full implication didn't 
come to me at the time because it said the first amendment came first. 
Apparently our Founding Fathers intended that to be the most im- 
portant thing in the thing. 

Well, I graduated in law, and still interested in music, of course, 
and upon graduation I found I just didn't have the wherewithal — I 
didn't think I was good enough — ito be a lawyer, because music was my 
foreground, my important foreground, and, so, with a bundle of music 
I came to New York; and after some struggle as a songwriter — it's 
not easy to please the public — and some experience, I got a contract 
with the Shuberts and started writing various musical shows. Among 
tliem were Top Hold, The Greenwich Village Follies, Merry-Go- 
Rouud, Vanities, Sketchbook. I don't recall many more. 

Finally, in 1931. too, I wrote a show called Americana, and among 
them were various songs — love songs, comedy songs — the kind of 
tilings you write in musical shows — but in America, I mean Americana, 
I tliink I ])robably wrote the song that I am best known for, and that 
is Brother, Can You Spare a Dime? 

At that time T got a call to come to Hollywood to write songs for a 
picture called Stand Up and Cheer, at Fox Studios, and while there 
I am credited with having discovered a little personality, for whom 
I wrote a song called Baby Take a Bow — I brought her to pictures — 
a little personality named Shirley Temple. 



1374 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

And later I did other pictures — the music for other pictures — like 
Lottery Lover, Red Heads on Parade, in New York. I also did a 
picture called Moonlight and Pretzels. 

And back in Hollywood I did, oh, College Holiday — a lot of — 
some good; some inconsequential — and, finally, for Columbia I did a 
picture called Hey, Rookie, and Gay Senorita. 

But I must say, gentlemen, this sort of rounds out my education in 
a way, and I find myself here today recalling the first amendment to 
the Constitution. It doesn't feel very much like the major key — I feel 
like singing in the minor key — and, yet, there is hope in our country 
and, with the goodness of what is given us here through our Consti- 
tution, I feel very much encouraged when I hear of people like Gov- 
ernor — ex-Governor Lehman upholding the Constitution and the Bill 
of Rights; again when I hear of Chief — of Justice Youngdahl fight- 
ing for the Bill of Rights, ^particularly the first amendment, the free- 
dom to speak and 

Mr. Velde. Well, now, you are getting into 

Mr. GoRNEY. And I am very much encouraged, I say- 



Mr. Velde. A lecture. All the members of this committee- 
Mr, GoRNEY. Forgive me. I tried 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Uphold the Constitution. 

Mr. GoRNEY (continuing). To be brief, as I realize 

Mr. Velde. So, let's- 



Mr. Gorney. I am sure we are all trying for the same 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Proceed with the orderly • 

Mr. GoRNEY. Yes. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Taking of this testimony from this wit- 
ness, if you will, please. 

Mr. Gorney. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the practice of your profession take you to 
Hollywood ? 

Mr. Gorney. Yes, sir ; I said it did. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you there ? 

Mr. Gorney. I think I came to Hollywood about 1936, and returned 
to New York in 1947. I came back to do shows. 

I forget to mention I did two shows in New York since then. One 
was called Heaven on Earth, which was not a success; and another 
one which was called Thank You, Just Looking, which I wrote music 
for a review at Catholic University in Washington, which later be- 
came a New York review entitled Touch and Go, which played a season 
in New York and a little less than a year in London. 

I think that is about the round-out of my works. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has received testimony during the 
course of its investigation in Hollywood v.hich, if true, would mean 
that you have a knowledge of Communist Party activities within the 
entertainment field there. 

(At this point Mr. Gorney conferred with Mrs. Abzug.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I am referring to the testimony of Mr. Leo Towns- 
end, Mr. Martin Berkeley, and Mrs. Charles Daggett. 

Mr. Leo Townsend testified that he, himself, was a member of the 
Communist Party between 1944 and 1948, and he advised the com- 
mittee that Jay aiid Sandra Gorney were also members of that branch 
with him. 

Mr. Gorney was a songAvriter, according to his testimony. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1375 

Were you a member of a branch of the Communist Party in Holly- 
wood at any time between 1944 and 1948 ? 

Mr. GoRNET. I decline to ansAver that question, Mr. Tavenner, be- 
cause it is, in the first place, in the first amendment ; it is also — it also 
abridges the sixth amendment, in which the testimony of cooperative 
witnesses — whatever you want to call them — without a chance for 
cross examination, or having witnesses appear in my behalf — it seems 
to me testimony of that kind answers nothing; and if you will multi- 
ply three by nothing, it equals nothing, and I don't — I refuse to an- 
swer that question, sir, because under the fifth amendment I have the 
privilege of invoking it in refusing to be — to be a witness against 
myself. 

Mr. Taat:nner. Do you have any knowledge of Communist Party 
activities during the period you were in Hollywood ? 

Mr. GoRNEY. I think I'll stand on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Velde. Then, you do decline to answer 

Mr. GoRNEY. I decline 

Mr. Velde (continuing). The question? 

Mr. GoRNEY (continuing). To answer. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Gorney. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, in light of the witness' answer, I see 
no cause to be served by reading the testimony of the other witnesses. 

Mr. Velde. Yes ; I agree. 

I would like to ask one question. Are you presently a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gorney. I refuse to answer on the ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Veijje. Do you have any questions, Mr. Kearney ? 

JMr. Kearney. Well, just one: If you were not a member or had 
not been a member of the Communist Party, would you so state? 

Mr. Gorney. Would you state that again, please? 

Mr. Kearney. I said : If you had not been a member of the Com- 
munist Party, would you so state ? 

Mr. Gorney. I decline to answer that on the ground of the fifth, sir. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. One question. 

Mr. Gorney. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you in any way associated with the Communist 
movement while you were a student at the University of Michigan at 
Ann Arbor ? 

Mr. Gorney. It's so 

(At this point Mr. Gorney conferred with Mrs. Abzug.) 

Mr. Gorney. It's so long — so long ago, sir, that — in the study of my 
profession, writing for the Michigan operas, and soforth, being very 
young and very much of a — interested in what the studies were there — 
there was very little time, and I have to answer by refusing to answer 
on the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't the subject of whether you were or were not a 
member of the Communist movement of sufficient importance so that 
it would have been indelibly impressed on your memory? 



1376 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

I say that because the first half of your answer, or the first three- 
quarters of it, was an attempt to plead that you didn't remember. 

Now, don't you think that that is a subject of such great importance 
that you would remember ? 

Divorce that from the other 

Mr. GoRNEY. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). Half of your answer. 

Mr. GoRNEY. Yes. I gather the import of your question, but my 
interest was in the studies at the time — history, sociology, music, 
rhetoric, i was struggling with trying to become a person at that 
time. My interests were entirely in my — the question of getting an 
education. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, now, you know the Russians took over in 1917. 
Yon recall that, when the Communists took over in Russia? 

Mr. GoRNEY. That's historically a fact. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you at all acquainted with the Communist move- 
ment in the years immediately following that while you were still at 
the university? 

Mr. GoRNEY. I presume we've read about it in the papers. It 
wasn't very much of an impact. That was not a period of too much 
newspaper reading. 

What class were you in, Representative ? 

Mr. Clardy. Never mind. I graduated a little later. 

Mr. GoRNEY. I don't think so. I think we probably may have been 
classmates. I don't know. 

Mr. Clardy. You might tell me what operas you wrote. Tlien I will 
know. 

Mr. GoRNEY. You know. Congressman, it's like reading old letters — 
you hate them — the things you have written in your youth. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, they might have been good. 

Mr. GoRNEY. Well, I don't think so. They were very experimental. 

Mr. Clardy. All right, let it go. 

That is all. 

I will talk to you off the record. 

Mr. GoRNEY. Gladly, sir. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr, Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Frazier. 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. If there any reason why this witness should be con- 
tinued further under subpena ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is dismissed and the committee will 
stand in recess until 1 : 30. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 55 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 1 : 30 p. m. of the same day.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1377 

AFTERXOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 1 : 30 p. m. of the same day, the hearing was re- 
sumed, the following committee members being- present : Representa- 
tives I3ernard W. Kearne}^ (presiding), Kit Clardy, Gordon H. 
Scherer, Morgan M. jMoulder, Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, 

Ji^-) .... 

Mr. Kearxey. The committee will be in order. 

Counsel, have you a witness ? 

Mr. KuNziG, Mr. Eobert Gladnick. 

Will you stand to be sworn, sir ? 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Gladnick, do you swear the testimony you are 
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I do, sir. 

I\Ir. Kearney, Let the record show that the following committee 
members are present: Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Moulder. Mr. 
Doyle, Mr. Frazier, and Mr. Kearney, a quorum of the committee 

TESTIMONY OF EOBEET GLADNICK 

M. KuNziG. Mr. Gladnick, are you accompanied by counsel? 

]\Ir. Gladnick. No. 

JNIr. KuNziG. You know, of course, of your right before this com- 
mittee to be accompanied by counsel, if you so desire? 

Mr. Gladnick. I do. 

]\[r. KuNziG. And 3'ou are satisfied to testify without counsel ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I am. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give your full name and address, sir ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Robert Gladnick, 2532 Greenvale Road, Cleveland, 
Ohio. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Gladnick, would you give the committee a resume 
of your educational background, your birth, and your schooling? 

Mr. Gladnick. I was born in 1914 in Russia. 

Mr. KuNziG. "WHiere was that in Russia? 

]\Ir. Gladnick. The city of Vyazma, the Province of Smolensk. 

]Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell those two names, please, sir? 

Mr. Gladnick. It's as easy as Smith in England — V-y-a-z-m-a — and 
the province is Smolensk — S-m-o-l-e-n-s-k. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Gladnick, would you spell your name, please? 

Mr. Gladnick. G-1-a-d-n-i-c-k. 

Mr. Kearney. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would 3'ou speak as loudly as possible, of course, and 
perhaps pull your chair up a bit? 

Thank you. 

Now, would you state your educational background? 

You were stating that. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, I have a formal education up to the ninth 
grade. After that, my education has been picked up at random. 

Mr. KuNziG. Woidd you, then, give the committee, Mr. Gladnick, 
your employment experience; your background? 



33009— 53— pt. 3- 



1378 COMRIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Gladnick. About the age of 14, 15, I went on the road ; more 
or less rode around in boxcars, and hoboed; worked in oil fields, and 
harvest fields, lumber camps; then became a seaman — merchant sea- 
man. 

I spent 2 years in Spain, came back to this country in 1938 and 
became an organizer for the Textile Workers' Union, CIO, with 6 — 
51/^ years in the Canadian Army. 

When I returned, I went to work with a union — my present union. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your citizenship status, sir? 

Mr. Gladnick. I am a citizen of the United States of America. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present employment — 1 want to get that 
clear for the record — where you presently are working? 

Mr. Gladnick. I am an organizer for the International Ladies' 
Garment Workers Union in the Ohio and Kentucky area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Gladnick, how and under what circumstances did 
you first become interested in the Young Communist League? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, when I returned from Russia in 1928, a num- 
ber of young fellows in the southern Bronx were interested to know 
about my experiences in Russia, and I told them, on and off, what I 
saw there. However, I never became a Communist until I was riding 
around the roads, and I joined the party in Houston, Tex. 

Mr. KuNziG. When was that ? 

Mr. Gladnick. That was about February or March of 1931. 

Mr. KuNziG. What were you doing down there in Houston, Tex.? 

Mr. Gladnick. I was working as a roustabout around the oil fields. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you in any way get active in trying to get members 
for the Communists? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, I was — or helping to organize the unemployed 
councils there for the Communists. However, I didn't get to know 
too much about communism in Texas at that time. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the period of time as evidenced in the Daily 
Worker of August 22, 1933, where there is an article entitled "'Un- 
employed Leaders Beaten in Oklahoma City": 

Robert Gladnick and William Williamson, leaders of the unemployed here, 
were arrested and beaten by leather belts by local police for leading a srrike of 
RFC workers. 

This action has aroused local workers who are demanding the arrest and 
prosecution of those guilty of the assault. Williamson has stated he can identif'" 
the attackers. 

Will you tell us a bit about that ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, this didn't occur at the time we are talking 
about because I joined the unemployed in Houston, Tex., in 1931. Thi« 
was in 1933. 

As I recall, I was helping to organize tlie unemployed. :tnd the 
people down there are a little hot-blooded, and I couldn't give them 
a dialectical talk to make them (juiet, and they went out, and they 
went out and got out of hand a little bit; and, of course, I had to 
suffer the consequences. 

Mr. Kunzig. Now, when you were a leader of labor, as it says there, 
were you at that time working also for the Conuniuiist Party '. 

Mr. Gladnick. I was district organizer of the Young Comnumist 
League. 

Mr. Kunzig. And was the activity of the Communist Party, shall 
we say, twisted up with this, or one and the same with this strike 
situation? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1379 

Mr. Gladnick. It was, 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you associated with any other members of the 
CoiTununist Party down there at that time ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I was. 

Mr. KuNziG. And, if so, can you remember who they were? 

Mr. Gladnick. In 1931 or 1933 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Let's start with 1931 first ; then go to 1933. 

Mr. Gladnick. In 1931 I knew a ^Mrs. Abrams, whose party name 
is Ames. 

I knew an A. W. Berry. He is a Negro worker, whom I have very 
high respect for his bravery, although not for his political acumen. 

There was A. W. Berry. 

Then, after that, in 1932, I remember— 1932 and 1933— a Hy Gor- 
don and Alice Wilson, who was Mrs. Gordon. 

Then there was Williams, but Williams quit the Communist Party 
afterward. 

Then, there was a Knight. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that? 

Mr. Gladnick. K-n-i-g-h-t; but I don't remember his first name. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, all these people you knew as members of the 
Commmiist Party ; is tliat correct ? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know at that period a Gil Green — G-i-1- 
G-r-e-e-n — or a Betty Gannett — G-a-n-n-e-t-t ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I knew a Gil Green. When I came back to New 
York, I met Gil Green. He was head of the Young Communist League 
in 1931 — national head. I knew a Betty Cannes, who was his wife, 
or supposedly his wife. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know them as members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, Gil Green I knew only as national secretary 
of the Young Communist League and a member of the executive 
committee of the Communist Party or Communist International — of 
the Young Communist International. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Mr. Gladnick, would yon say that the officials or the 
high people in the Young Communist I^tnigue and the Communist 
Party were interested in you because of your birth in Kussia and 
having been in Russia? 

Mr. Gladnick. No; I don't think they were interested in that. In 
fact, they held it against me because at that time most of the Young 
Communists Avho were likely — who were potential — as far as the 
high leadership was concerned — as future members of the armed 
forces, and not being an American, it was more or less a detriment 
to their plans. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you elaborate a little bit on this statement 
that you are talking about now and the type of work that you did 
in New York 



Mr. Gladnick. Well, I 

Mr. KuNziG (Continuing). Mentioning perhaps the Brooklyn Navy 
Yard, if you would. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, you see, the 21 points of admission to the 
Communist International states specifically that the individual Com- 
munist Parties all over the world must carry on work within the 
armed forces of their respective capitalist — quote. — countries — in 



1380 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW YORK AREA 

brackets — countries. That is my own quote. And since the Young 
Communist League is a youth branch of the Communist Party, most 
of the activity within the armed forces were carried on primarily 
at that time, as far as I knew, to the best of my knowledge, through 
the Young Communist League ; and they would plant people into the 
armed services, such as the Citizens' Military Training Corps, Na- 
tional Guard, such civilian military establishments as the Brooklyn 
Navy Yard. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let's take the CMTC since you just mentioned it. Did 
you, yourself, go into the CMTC ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I did, in 1932. I, with a group of around 30 or 40 
Young Communists, were members of the Citizens' Military Training 
Corps. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let me ask you if you went in under your own name. 

Mr. Gladnick. No ; I didn't. 

Mr. KuNziG. Why not? 

Mr. Gladnick. Because I wasn't a native-born citizen. 

Mr. KuNziG. So, you mean you took another name to go into the 
CMTC 

JMr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). So that you could get into it? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would j^ou explain a little about what was done then 
in the CMTC from tlie standpoint of the Young Communists that 
went into it ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, the object of getting Young Communists into 
the CMTC was twofold : 

No. 1 : It gave the Young Communists the experience of arms. 

It also gave tlie Young Communists a chance to find out if they 
liked military life; and, if they did, they were then put into the other 
armed forces, such as the National Guard or the Eegular Army or 
Navy. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you remember any names of various people with 
whom you were associated at that time who went or were sent into the 
CMTC as Young Communists? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, the chap who was in charge of sending the 
Young Communists into the CMTC was a fellow by the name of — I 
know him as Charles — Charley Wilson. He was then the head of 
the Young Communist League group for penetrating the armed forces. 
In fact, he was supposed to become the Secretary of Defense if the 
United States ever became Communist. 

I see where somebody who has a different middle initial has become 
Secretary of National Defense. 

Well, Charley Wilson was tlie so-called Secretary of National De- 
fense as far as the Communists were concerned, and his name is 
Irving Velson. 

Mr. KuNziG. His name is 

Mr. Gladnick. His real name is Irving Velson. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let me get that spelling very clearly — the spelling of. 
the first name you mentioned. 

Mr. Gladnick. Wilson — W-i-1-s-o-n. 

JMr. Kunztg. W-i-1-s-o-n ? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Charles Wilson ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1381 

]VIr. Gladnick. Yes, and his real name, I found out later, is Irving 
Velson. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is V-e-1-s-o-n? 

i\Ir. Gladnick. V-e-1-s-o-n ; yes. 

Now, to continue on that, there was George Gorchoff. He was 
actiially in charge of the entire Young Communist legal unit. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let's get the spelling of Gorchoff. 

Mr. Gladnick. George, as George, and Gorchoff — I think it's G-o-r- 
s-c-h-o-f-f, but I'm not positive of that. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was Gorchoff 's position ? 

Mr. GL.VDNICK. He was actually head of the unit or nucleus within 
the CMTC in 1932 at Camp Dix. He was a member of the red 
course — red course meaning second-year man. He was a machine- 
gunner, and they were scattered throughout — primarily throughout 
the three companies coming from Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Man- 
hattan approximately, around thirty-or-some-odd Young Communists. 

There was a fellow by the name of Nat Wald, whose name I later 
used, whose YCL name was Nat Young. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wait a minute. Nat Wald is N-a-t, and the last 
name — W-a-l-d? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. His Young Communist League name 
was Nat Young. 

And I can't recall any other people there. 

Mr. Moulder. When you refer to red course, you don't mean Com- 
munist course? 

Mr. Gladnick. No; no. That was the machine — the basic course 
has no color. The basic course is machineguns; then there was a 
white course and a blue course 

Mr. Moulder. Blue course, and- 



Mr. Gladnick. And after that you got your commission. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you just mentioned you used the name of Nat 
Wakl, his documents, and so forth. Would you tell the committee 
just what that was for, and under what circumstances 3^ou used that 
name? 

Mr. Gladnick. In 1935, when I shipped out in the merchant ma- 
rine, I used Nat Wald's birth certificate in order to obtain a seaman's 
passport. 

You had to be a citizen in order to sail under American-flag ships. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, in other words, was this a fairly easy procedure 
for you to do something like this? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, it didn't take me — it didn't seem very hard. I 
sent away to the board of health a dollar or two, and they mailed me 
back the birth certificate, and then I went up to the Communist Party 
headquarters, and the editor of the Sunday Worker — I think his name 
was Raymond, or Al Richmond, or Al Raymond — at the present time 
it's — it's one or the other. Now, I'm not positive. As far as I know, 
he is — he later became editor of the People's World out on the west 
coast. He went out and made out for me seaman's papers. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, was this type of action normal for members of 
the Communist Party when they wanted to get into any group from 
which they might otherwise be barred? 

Mr. Gladnick. It seemed to be — I mean, they advised me, and 
they seemed to know all the procedure. 



1382 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, the use of false documents meant 
Qothinof to them? 

Mr. Gladnick. No, sir ; none at all, 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you give the committee a little further infor- 
mation along this line — on the situation of going down to the public 
library, and so forth, and picking names out? 

I believe we discussed that. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, it was common knowledge amongst the Com- 
munists at that time — when I say Communists, I mean those who were 
connected with the so-called Armed Forces group, as it was called, the 
anti department of the party, that the New York Public Library had 
a book of vital statistics, and if somebody needed a false passport 
or false birth certificate he simply went down and looked through 
the book for the year in which that particular person was born, and 
a likely person, and he just picked out a name. On the basis of that 
name, they would send away the information to the board of health 
and receive the birth certificate. 

Mr. KuNziG. A few moments ago you were talking about the period 
of time wlien you were in Texas. I believe you were also in Oklahoma ; 
is that right? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you describe the type of work you did in Okla- 
homa and the time and period you were there ? 

Mr. Gladnick. We, on behalf of the Conmiunist Party, were trying 
to organize the packinghouse workers into the Packinghouse Workers' 
Industrial Union, which was an affiliated trade union of the Trade 
Union Unity League. We tried to organize the oilfield workers into 
the Oil Field Industrial Workers' Union, an affiliate of the TUUL, 
which was also an affiliate of the Red International Labor Union, a 
Moscow-controlled union. 

We tried to organize the unemployed, and the unemployed at that 
time had plenty to — plenty grievances ; and although there were other 
organizations in the field trying to organize the unemployed, we tried 
to steal them away from them into the Communist unemployed 
councils. 

]Mr. Kunzig. Now, we passed over fairly quickly the fact that you 
had been in the merchant marine. l"\niile in the merchant marine, did 
you work for the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I did. 

Mr. Kunzig. If so, in what way, Mr. Gladnick ? 

Mr. Gladnik. I was a member of the waterfront faction of the 
Young Communist League, and our main 

Mr. Kunzig. When was this? 

Mr. Gladnick. This was 1935 and 1936. 

Mr. Kunzig. I see. 

Mr. (Jladnick. And our main job at that time was to break up the 
International Seamen's Union or take it over, which was an Ameri- 
can Federation of Labor union 

]Mr. Kunzig. Was that 

Mr. Gladnick (continuing). x\nd the Communists  

Mr. Kunzig (continuing). Done? 

Mr. Gladnick (continuing). Succeeded. 

Mr. Kunzig. They succeeded? 

Mr. Gladnick. The Communists succeeded in taking it over. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1383 

Mr. KuNziG. Completely destroyed and took over tlie union? 

Mr. Gladnick. Completely destroyed it. Completely destroyed the 
ISU — the International Seamen's Union. 

However, I left the country when they reformed at that time the 
National Maritime Union, and in its inception it was completely con- 
trolled by the Communists. However, I would like to add, to the 
best of my knowledge, Joe Curran has cleaned them out of the 
NMU now. 

Mr. KuNziG, For what purpose was the union at that time used by 
the Communists ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, the Communists had many reasons for getting 
in on the waterfront. First of all, it was a question of leading a 
segment of the American trade-union movement, but it was very 
important. It was a cencentration area, because the maritime in- 
dustry is the Achilles' heel of American industry, because you could 
throttle the American war potential, ^^.merican industrial potential, by 
calling a strike or sabotaging the waterfront. 

Mr. KuxziG. Mr. Gladnick, did vou at one time go to California? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes; I did, in 1934— and in 1933. 1934, and 1935. 

]Mr. Moulder. May I ask how they destroyed the union, Mr. 
Chairman? 

That wasn't discussed or thoroughly explained. 

Mr. Gladnick. Plow did they destroy the union ? 

Well, in 1936 — 1935 — the International Seamen's Union had come 
into existence in 1934. Well, the Communists — no matter how much 
the ofiicials of the union tried to get for the workers, the Communists 
always asked for more. So, of course, in labor relations and bargain- 
ing, you can't always get what you want. 

And I wnll say that in retrospect the officialdom of the International 
Seamen's Union at that time was rather — well, they weren't very well 
experienced. They had only had the union in existence for about a 
year. As far as actual organization, there was — it was a paper or- 
ganization before that, but in 1934 they grew, flesh and body, because 
the majority of American seamen joined it. 

However, in their attempts to negotiate with the employers — no 
matter what they would get from the emploj^ers, the Communists would 
incite the seamen to ask for more ; and, of course, conditions were pretty 
bad on tlie waterfront and everybody wanted more ; and by this con- 
stant lack of acceptance of any contract, anything that the leadership 
of the miion was able to get, they were able to call what they called 
rank-and-file strikes. 

So, in other words, after aw^hile industry was not — had no labor 
peace in it. No matter what the union officials settled the contract for, 
they could not guarantee the ships would sail because the wildcat 
strikes would tie up the ships and harbor. 

Mr. Kearney. Proceed, INIr. Counsel. 

]\fr. KuNziG. Could I, then, go to your work for the Communists in 
California? 

Would you describe that in some detail to the committee ? 

INIr. Gladnick. Well, when I arrived in California, I didn't know 
many of the Communists there and I went to a friend of mine whom — 
that is. Communists — party-controlled member — Joe Springer, who I 
knew in New York as Joe Saul. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you 



1384 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Clardy. Spell that. 

Pardon me. 

Mr. KunziCt. Plow do you spell Saul ? 

Mr. Gladnick. S-a-u-1. 

Mr. KuNziG. And how do you spell Springer ? 

Mr. Gladnick. S-p-r-i-n-g-e-r. 

Mr. Clardy. You knew him under the name of Saul in New York ? 

Mr. Gladnick. In New York. 

Mr. KuNziG. Which was his real name and which was an alias, if 
you know ? 

Mr. Gladnick. To the best of my knowledge, Springer is his real 
name and Saul is his Communist Party name. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. 

Would you continue, please. 

Mr. Kearney. Wait a minute. 

Pardon me. 

Wliereabouts did he live in New York ; do you know ? 

Mr. Gladnick. In New York — I could only give you the approxi- 
mate area — he lived near Leggett Avenue in the Bronx, either on Beak, 
Kelly, or Fox Street — in that general vicinity — — 

Mr. Clardy. Will you identify 

Mr. Gladnick. Along Leggett Avenue, on one of those streets. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, will you identify the period in which he knew 
him in New York under the name of Saul ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you please do that ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I knew him as Saul during the months of January, 
February, March, April, May, right up until about the month of 
October "1932. 

Mr. Moulder. How did you know him under that name? 

Mr. Gladnick. He was the head — he was the unit organizer of the 
Young Communist League unit. 

Mr. Moulder. He went by that name and presented himself to you 
by that name ? 

Mr, Gladnick. Well, he was our head of that unit. His name was 
Joe Saul. 

Mr. Clardy. And he was engaged in what type of work at that time ? 

Mr. Gladnick. He was a cloakmaker. 

Mr. Clardy. Was he still in that work when you knew him in 
California? 

Mr. Gladnick. He was. 

Mr. Kearney. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you were discussing your activities, and you 
went to 

Mr. Sciierer. Pardon me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Before we get off the subject of Joe Springer and 
Joe Saul 

Mr. KuNZiG. I am coming back to that. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you coming back to it later? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Sciierer. Oh, all right. 

Mr. KuNziG. You said you had gone to the home of Joe Springer. 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you carry on from there, please? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1385 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, while I was there, I met some other California 
Communists^ who I didn't know, and we started talking about New 
York ; and it happened in passing that they asked me who did I know 
in New York, and I mentioned Shavey Wilson, which is Charley 
Wilson's name amongst those inner — in the inner circles. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, is Shavey spelled S-h-a-v-e-y ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I don't know how Shavey is spelled, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will j'ou tell us how the name Shavey Wilson or Vel- 
son got into the picture ? 

Mr. Gladnick. To the best of my knowledge, Young Communist 
League fellows kidded him about how long it took him to shave. 
It had something to do with that. 

Mr. KuNziG. So, Shavey Velson and Charles Wilson are one and 
the same person ? 

^Ir. Gladnick. Except that he was known not as Shavey Wilson, 
but he was known as Shavey. 

Mr. KuNziG. Shavey? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see, 

Mr. Gladnick. He was known by the innermost circles as Shavey. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. 

Did you know him as Shavey ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes ; I knew him by Shavey. 

So, when I mentioned Shavey — used that name, he immediately — • 
Lou Schneiderman immediately called me outside and said, "Look, 
don't get in touch with anybody locally because the industrial squad 
of Red Hines" — police officer in Los Angeles at that time — seemed to 
know more about the Communist Party than the section organizer, and 
he asked me to avoid any contacts whatsoever, and then he'll get in 
touch with me. 

Well, it seems he wrote to Velson to find out who I was, and Velson 
seemed to have given him the O. K., and then he immediately got me 
into an activity of trying to organize and propagandize in the United 
States Fleet, which was stationed at that time in Long Beach, Calif. — • 
San Pedro and Long Beach, as well as San Diego. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, I am sure the committee would be more 
than interested in hearing in detail just what you mean, Mr. Gladnick, 
about organizing for the Communist Party within the United States 
Fleet. So, would you please explain that? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, at that time Schneiderman told me there were 
certain contacts within the fleet. He turned over to me, and I can't 
recall his name but he was a second-class fireman, and I think he came 
from Ogden, Utah, aboard the U. S. S. New York^ who was a member 
of the Young Communist League; and it was my job to keep in touch 
with him, to guide him, pass literature to him, and then he told me 
that there was also an officer aboard the Pennsylvania^ and that was 
his contact. I never got to meet the man. 

Now, at that time, at that particular period, there was a general 
10-percent cut for all Federal employees in effect. It was our job 
to go aboard these various battleships to find out what the sentiment 
of the navymen was in regards to the pay cuts, and our job then was 
to issue a newspaper, which we did. 

We put out a newspaper called the Shipmates' Voice — the best that 
I could recall it. It may have been the Sailors' Voice, but I think it 



1386 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

was called the Shipmates' Voice. Schneiderman and I had it printed. 
We wrote most of the articles for it. 

We had it printed. We made sure that we didn't have it printed 
anywhere in any of the Communist printing places. We went to a 
Mexican place that put out newspapers for supermarkets, and the 
reason we picked this Mexican place was because we decided the 
owner was not too well versed in the English language. He put out 
this newspaper. After it was finished, we destroyed the type, and we 
turned this — turned over this newspaper to a legal — or open member 
of the Communist Party. 

In Los Angeles at that time the Young Communist League had a 
special mobilization on a Sunday, where all — primarily the young 
girls — they all showed up at a certain given spot. They were all 
handed tliis newspaper, and they went aboard the battleships and dis- 
tributed it in the lockers and passageways, and in that way, in one 
swoop, 5,000 copies of the Shipmates' Voice covered every ship in 
the fleet. 

On those ships where the Communists had contacts very few papers 
were given out. The intention was to create the impression that 
it is the other ship that has the Communists ; and on the ships where 
we had this contact — these contacts — we gave out very few — not to 
let them look innocent, but at the same time not to point suspicion — 
point suspiciously to them. 

Now, after we put out this newspaper the fleet moved to the east 
coast, and Schneiderman went to Cuba — anyway, he told me he went 
to Cuba — and put out a second edition of this paper called the Ship- 
mates' Voice, with the aid of the Young Communist League of Cuba, 
which was distributed with their aid — probably with their girls' aicl 
at Guantanamo Bay. 

I came to New York, and I contacted Velson and a Dodo, whose 
name is Malken — he also worked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard — George 
Gorchoff, and we put out a third edition of this paper, which was 
printed in the Finnish Federation Press on 50 East 13th Street. 

The reason I know where it was printed — we were there to make 
sure no spare copies were left around. 

Tliere was also a mobilization of the female members of the Young 
Communist League in New York, and they also went aboard the 
various ships and distributed in New York City. This was around 
Decoration Day of 1934. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Would it be correct to say that Shavey Velson, or 
Shavey, was in charge of the entire military apparatus for the Young 
Communist League ? 

Mr. Gladnick. For the Young Communist League, I would say to 
the best of my knowledge, he was in charge under Peters. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that J. Peters? 

Mr. Gladnick. J. Peters. 

Mr. KuxziG. Would you tell the committee what you know of J. 
Peters? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, after the fleet left in June of 1934, I, this 
young sailor, this second-class fireman, who took his furlough and was 
in civilian clothes, and another chap by the name of Gene Morse took 
a special course on work within the Armed Forces. We attended this 
course during the daytime at 50 East 13th Street in the Workers' 
School, and the course was taught to the three of us by Mendel, or 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1387 

Mindel— Profesor Mi ndel— Professor Markoff— anyway, they called 
him professor, and also J. Peters personally took over teaching us 
how to do cipher work and communications. 

Mr. Doyle. How to do what work ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Cipher work— how to write letters without anybody 
knowing what vou were writing. 

Mr. Doyle. How were you going to use that knowledge ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, that was in case one of us was sent to San 
Pedro or to Norfolk, or any Army base, and we wanted to send re- 
ports back. We were to send the reports back in cipher, rather than 
in the same language. ^ „ . „ 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, you, in the city of New York, at Com- 
munist Party headquarters in New York, were taught how to operate 
in cipher and code 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right, and Peters 

Mr. Doyle (continuing) . In order that you, a member of the Com- 
munist Party, working in the American Navy, could send secret code 
messages back to the National Communist Party in New York 

Mr. Gladnick. Well 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). Dealing with internal security matters 
of the United States Navy ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Primarily it was dealing with the work and activi- 
ties of the Young— or the Communist Party members within the 
Armed Forces 

Mr. Doyle. Well, why 

Mr. Gladnick. But primarily you are correct. 

Mr. Doyle. Why would you want to use secret code to report back 
to the American Communist Party in New York as to what activities 
were being propagandized by the Young Communist League? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, I don't think Peters Wanted the whole world 
to know what the Young Communist League was doing in the Anny 
or Navy. 

^Ir. Doyle. Well, what were they doing? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, they were trying to organize cells. 

Mr. Doyle. Secretly? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, all indications, as far as I was concerned — 
as far as I knew, it was secret. They were not open party units. In 
other words, they never held open meetings of any sort. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, the. American Communist Party was 
organizing secret units and using secret codes and cipher codes from 
the American battleships back to the Communist Party headquarters 
in Now York? 

Mr. Gladnick. No; they were not cipher code from the battleships. 

Let me give you an example. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, about what was going on in the battle^jhips? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

It was a vei'y elementary system. They would tell us to have certain 
copies of a western magazine, a love story. True Romance, and all 
we did on the letter was put down the date, and we would put in 
that, and then we would mark and number, which meant the page, 
and all you did was simply put a dot under the word you wanted, and 
they would buy the same copy of the magazine I would buy, and I 
would simply follow that procedure. 



1388 COMLIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

In that way, if we, you and I or anybody else ever raided our room, 
they woukl find a bunch of western magazines. True Romances, and 
no copies of the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Doyle. And at what address in New York were you taught 
that? 

INIr. Gladnick. Well, it was taught at that time at 50 East 13th 
Street by J. Peters himself. 

Mr. KuxziG. Then 

Mr. ScHERER. Just a minute. 

Mr. KuNziG. Pardon me, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Gladnick, I was going to ask you this later, but 
in view of your testimony so far I want to ask you one or two 
questions. 

In this month's Mercury there is an article entitled "Red Threat to 
American Industry." Now, in this article, there is a reprint of one 
of the directives of the Communist Party emanating from Moscow 
entitled "The ABC of Sabotage," and I am going to read to you from 
that directive which is reprinted in this article to which I have re- 
ferred and ask you whether or not your experience in the labor field 
of the Communist Party indicates that some of these directives were 
carried out. I think from your testimony so far it does so indicate, 
but I am going to ask you that question. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this 
point. ) 

Mr. ScHERER (continuing). Now, this directive reads, in part, as 
follows— and it is entitled "The ABC of Sabotage" : 

To All Political Instructors, Communist Auxiliary Organizations, Leaders of 
Communist Factions in Trade Unions, and All Sabotage Units: 
The orsanization of action committees in all armament and munitions factories, 
in commercial and naval shipyards, in railroad centers, in all harbors and on 
all ships trading from American ports : These action committees should be 
composed of the most militant and reliable elements. The duty of the action 
committees is to distribute antiwar literature, call antiwar meetings, carry on 
daily discussions among the workers, organize strikes and otherwise obstruct the 
manufacture and transport of war materials. 

* * * the organization of Red vigilante committees everywhere to check and 
report on armament orders and consignments of war materials. The vigilante 
committees should consist only of tested comrades. Their special duty is to 
gather exact information on the amounts and quality of war goods ordered, 
on the dates of their shipment — names of ships, railroad schedules, photographs 
of labels on packing cases and freight cars — and reliable data on the destination 
of such war transports. 

* * * intensified activity in the formation of Communist nuclei in naval ship- 
yards and aboard warships, in the National Guard, the CCC camps, the Coast 
Guard, and in all branches of the Army. The cliief task of these nuclei should 
be the demoralization and the undermining of discipline of soldiers and sailors. 

Does that sound familiar to you ? 

Mr. Gladnick. It sounds like the text I was studying from back 
in 1934. 

Mr. SciiERER. Now, while we are on this, I am going to read a little 
further, because I think it is important : 

Our chief means for the obstruction of the manufacture and transport of war 
materials is the strike. Every strike, although begun by advancing minor eco- 
nomic demands in behalf of the workers, is a high form of political combat. 
The only higher forms of political combat are armed demonstrations and armed 
insurrections. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1389 

This directive continues : 

(a) Mobilize all available forces. Strikes do not "break out." Strikes must 
t)e prepared by a militant minority. 

(h) Strive to provoke violent clashes between strikers and police. Police 
violence is the course of strikes helps to impart a political character to the 
struggle, thus lifting it to a higher plane of revolutionary warfare. 

Then it goes on : 

The fundamental principle of sabotage consists of finding the most vulnerable 
link in the process of production or transport — and to slash it at a time when 
it is needed most by the class enemy. The use of fire and explosives — the burn- 
ing or blasting of munitions factories and ships, the blasting of railroads, stra- 
tegic bridges— should be limited to centrally planned, large-scale actions. In- 
structors will be assigned to special groups to train them in the use of explosives. 

Several methods may be used to start fires in factories, storage depots, or 
ships' holds. The use of rags soaked in kerosene is the simplest and cheapest. 
They can easily be thrown through windows, air shafts, hatches, or through 
,the ventilators into ships' holds. * * * 

I am going to go on, Mr. Chairman, if I may 

Mr. Kearney. How much 



Mr. ScHERER (continuing). Because I think — — 

Mr. Kearney (continuing). Longer have you got there? 

Mr. Scherer. Well, I may come back to it, because I think it is 
important. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, I suggest we let counsel finish his questioning, 
and then we can — — 

Mr. Gladnick. Can I comment on what the Congressman read ? 

Mr. Kearney. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Please do. 

Mr. Gladnick. Actual schools of sabotage that I know of existing 
in the Communist Party were conducted in Spain by a Russian intelli- 
gence officer called Colonel Belayev. 

Mr. KuxziG. Will you spell that, please? 

Mr. Gladnick. B-e-1-a-y-e-v. 

His recruiter from American ranks was Bob Minor, who would, in 
his stead, go to Irving Regenstreif, or presently known as Johnny 
Gates — or John Gates — editor of the Daily Worker, who was then a 
political commissar. He would turn over key Americans to this man. 

Now, mind you, this was not a school, a regular part of the regular 
Spanish Army. It was not the International Brigades that fought 
openly and oii the battlefield. This was a special group whose entire 
])urpose was to learn commando-ranger tactics, work behind the lines. 

However, the majority of them never went behind Franco's lines in 
Spain. These people became automatically subject to discijiline of the 
Communist Party of the Soviet Union, not the American Communist 
Party, though they were Communists. 

And when you speak of that — that is the general directive. 

But the key people who are — who would be actually in charge of 
this work would be those men recruited bv Gates, turned over to Minor, 
who would in turn turn them over to Colonel Belayev of the Soviet 
Military Mission. 

Mr. Scherer. And find their way 

Mr. Gladnick. Then they would find their way back to the United 
States, and many of the gi\aduates of that school are here. 

Mr. Scherer. They are here? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes. 



1390 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Kearney. All right, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Glaclnick, when did you sever your connections 
witli the Communist Party? 

Mr. (tladnick. The first time I met a Russian in Spain. 

Mr. KuNziG. The first time you met a Russian in Spain ? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Would you describe that a bit further, please, sir? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, I was infantry officer of the International 
Brigade, full of life, sturdy, filthy, having been up to the front with 
some hectic battles, and I was promoted upstairs into the Russian 
military mission, and upon arrival there the Russians didn't even want 
to talk to me until I was scrubbed, bathed, manicured, and put into 
some of the most gorgeous clothes I ever wore in my life. Having 
been an old-time radical and brought up in the equalitarian ideals of 
radicalism, I just couldn't stomach the high standards of living of the 
Russians and I immediately changed my political views. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean the Russian officers 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, you see, the Russian officers constantly harping 
to me that they are 

Mr. Kearney. If the spectators find the testimony of this witness 
very amusing, may I suggest there are some movie houses near this 
courthouse ; you might be better interested there. 

Any further outbreaks and those who are causing them w^ill be re- 
moved from the room. The police will be asked to remove them from 
the room. 

Mr. Gladnick. You see, I went to Spain with the idea of fighting 
fascism, and I here want to tell the committee that the Spanish people 
were fighting fascism but they were also getting stabbed in the back 
by the Communists behind the front. 

But the Russians had the attitude that they are a certain elite; 
they are above everyone else, whereas American, young idealists would 
be out in the trenches, filthy, dirty and the Russians lived the life of 
Riley; and they said this is the way the Soviets — well, they won't 
call themselves bureaucrats, but this is the way the Soviet military 
man is supposed to carry himself. He's supposed to have a chauffeur ; 
he's supposed to have an orderly; he's supposed to have servants — 
and there are certain snobbish standards they must maintain, and 
they said, "You, with your American ideas of equalitarianism, must 
drop them. You've got to learn to live as a Soviet man." 

I couldn't stomach that. However, it was very pleasant while it 
lasted. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mr. Gladnick, the committee is most interested 
in those who may have fought — and as Americans who may have 
fought — in Spain whom you could identify as members of the Com- 
munist Party, known to you to be members of the Communist Party^ 
and I would like at this time to hand you a list, a partial list, of 
names of Americans who fought in Spain and ask you if you would 
see if you can recognize any of those people as members of the Com- 
munist Party, known to you to be such. 

]\[r. Kearney. And no other names will be mentioned. 

Mr. KuNziG. And I specifically request that no other names be 
mentioned, sir. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, there is David Amarigio. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you spell each name as you come to it ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1391 

Mr. Gladxick. David Aniurigio. I did not know him as a staff 
officer in Spain, but I knew him as one of the leaders of the Spanish 
Aid Committee in France. 

Mr. KuNZiG. And j^on knew him 

Mr. (tladnick. I also knew him as a Communist by the name of 
David Leeds — Dave Leeds. 

Mr. Clardy. Yon better spell that first name. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Yes. Will you spell the first name you mentioned, 
please? 

Mr. Gladnick. David Amarigio — A-m-a-r-i-g-i-o. 

In fact, the fact of the matter is he represented himself as repre- 
sentinfr the American Embassy in France. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I ask you, as to any of these names you know, 
if you know anything of the present whereabouts of these persons, 
would you kindly tell us ? 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. Gladnick. I don't know 

Mr. KuNziG. I realize this has been some time ago. 

Mr. Gladnick. I don't where this man is today. 

Archie Brown — I knew him as a Young Communist League mem- 
ber in Los Angeles, Calif. He was active in the longshore organiza- 
tion in San Pedro. 

Phil Bard was a cartoonist. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell the name, please ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Phil Bard was a cartoonist for the Young Worker. 
He was in — he was in Innocents Abroad. 

The reason I say this — he was the commissar in charge of the first 
unit that went to Spain. I don't know the man has ever been beyond 
New York, and the majority of the men in that group were seamen ; 
and he used to tell us how to behave in Le Havre and how to behave 
in Paris, and most of us have been all over the world before that. 

Phil Bard never went to the front. He developed — I don't know — 
political sickness, or some kind of sickness, and came home and be- 
came a big hero. He never saw action Spain. 

George Chakin I knew. He was a member of the Young Communist 
League. In Spain he served in the — I knew him not in the Interna- 
tional Brigade. He served in Compensino's Division, or the Division 
Compensino, the commander in chiefs whose name is Valerian© Gon- 
zales 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that? 

Mr. Gladnick. Gen. Valeriano Gonzales. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that, please? 

INIr. Gladnick. George Chakin — he — I think he was in charge of 
waterfronts, 

Mr. KuNZTG. Would you spell that, please? 

Mr. Gladnick. C-h-a-k-i-n. 

Mr. Kearney. Now, the other name — Gonzales, 

Mr, Gladnick, Valeriano Gonzales was known in Spain as Com- 
pesino. He was in command of this division, and George Chakin was 
his engineer in charge of water 

Mr. Kearney. Would you spell the name Gonzales? 

Mr, Gladnick, Gonzales — G-o-n-z-a-I-e-s 



1392 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Kearistey. Now, the first name. 

Mr. Gladnick. Gen. Valeriano Gonzales, but commonly known as 
Compe — C-o-m-p-e. 

Mr. Kearney. How would you spell tlie first name? 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell the first name, please? 

I won't try to pronounce it. 

Mr. Gladnick. Valeriano — V-a-1-e-r-i-a-n-o 

Mr. KuNziG. Thank you. 

Mr. Gladnick. Valeriano Gonzales, and George Chakin was his — 
he was in charge of the waterworks. He was wounded at Velletri in 
the month of July 1937. 

Robert Cohen — I knew a Robert Cohen from New York, who was 
also in the Servicio Informacion Militar, which is the secret service 
of the Spanish Army, but which was actually one of the few branches 
of the Spanish Army completely dominated by the Communists and 
the GPU. 

Now, I don't know if this is the Robert Cohen. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew a Robert Cohen? 

Mr. Gladnick. A Robert Cohen. 

You only want to know who ai-e the present Communists 

Mr, KuNziG. No ; those you knew 

Mr. Gladnick (continuing) . Or at that time were ? 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). At the time to be Communists. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, Dave Drummond was a Communist at that 
time, I understand he is out of the Communist Party now. 

Bill Ellis — he was a member of the Young Communist League be- 
fore he went to Spain, and afterward, and he was — he was in Spain. 

You see, many of these people I met there as Communists. I didn't 
know what their political affiliations were before coming to Spain, and 
after I came back I wasn't with the Communists. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Gladnick. So, I am only mentioning those. 

Bill Gandall was a Communist before he went to Spain. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that name ? 

Mr. Gladnick. G-a-n-d-a-1-1. 

Mr, KuNziG. Thank you. 

Mr. Gladnick. And I knew he was after — after returning — an or- 
ganizer for the Transport Workers' Union here in New York. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let's make it 

Mr. Gladnick. He was a former marine, too. 

Mr. KuNziG, Let's make it clear again we are only interested in those 
that you knew to be Communists at that time, 

Mr, Gladnick. Bill Gandall was an ambulance driver — ambulance 
chaser — in Spain, and he came back and he was a party member before 
he went. 

Now, Hunter — I knew a Hunter in Spain who was a Negro, and he 
was a commissar. He was a Communist Party member before going 
to Spain. I don't know whether he is still. 

Louis Kupperman — now, I knew a Kupperman who was head of the 
party fraction in the original Lincoln Battalion. I don't know his 
name was Louis Kupperman, but T knew a Kupperman. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a Conummist? 

Mr, Gladnick. Yes; he was head of the party fraction within the 
battalion. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1393 

Walter Kolowski, 

Mr. KuxziG. Would yo'ii spell that, please? 

Mr. Gi^DNicK. Walter Kolowski — K-o-l-o-w-s-k-i — but the Kolow- 
ski I knew was from Buffalo. This says Detroit. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, let's get this straight, then. You knew a Kolow- 
ski from Buffalo ? 

Mr. Gladnick. From Buffalo, who was a Communist. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who was a Communist? 

Mr. Gi.ADXiCK. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. And who was in Spain with you ? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's riglit. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right. 

Mr. Gladnick. Now, John Little was head of the New York district 
of the Young Conununist League. I met him in Spain when he was — 
came to have a chat with Lisa Koltzova 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell the last name, please? 

]\[r. Gladnick. Koltzova— K-o-l-t-z-o-v-a — at the Majestic Hotel in 
Barcelona. She was the representative of the Young Komsomod- 
skaya — that is the junior edition of Pravda in Eussia — and he came to 
talk to her about youth problems, and I met him in Spain ; but he was 
not a soldier in Spain. He was just a visiting fireman. 

Bill Lawrence was the base conunissar of the International Brigade 
for the Americans. He was a Communist, and he was a political 
commissar. He was never a soldier and never at the front. 

Now, there's some people here who are dead, but 

JNIr. Kunzig. Let's not name them. AVe'll go right on. 

Mr. Gladnick. Now, Steve Nelson — I knew him in Spain as a 
conunissar and, to the best of my knowledge, he's still a Communist to 
this day. 

Mr. Kearney. Is that the same Steve Nelson who was indicted in 
the State of Pennsylvania 

Mr. (iLADNTCK. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Kearney (continuing) some months ago 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. Kearney (continuing). And tried and convicted? 

Mr. (iLADNTCK. That's right. 

Louis Ornitz, on Bryant Avenue of the Bronx, was a Young Com- 
munist, but 1 take it for granted he was a Young Communist League 
member. 

Robert Raven 



Mr. Kunzig. Would you spell that last name? 

Mr. Gladnick. Bob Raven — was a member of the Young Com- 
munist League. He went with me to Spain. He was wounded in 
Spain, lost the sight of both liis eyes. He was a Young Communist 
League member when he went. He went to Spain to commit suicide 
and, after he got wounded, it sort of changed his entire outlook on 
life. He became a man on a pedestal — most unusual character I ever 
met. 

Tlie man told me he came to Spain for one reason— he wanted to 
die because he was an unrecognized CJreenwich Village artist. Today, 
1 understand, he's some sort of a money collector for the Communist 
movement. 



1394 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Yale Stuart I knew as Yale Skolnik. He was in Spain. The last 
I've heard of him he was an organizer for the Retail- Wholesale 
Workers' Union. He lost an arm in Spain. 

Mr. Clardy. Will 3^ou spell the names Stuart and Skolnik? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, his name — his party name was Yale Stuart. 
He was a lifeguard before going to Spain at Camp Unity up at 
Queensdale, N. Y., and he was a member of the Young Communist 
League when he went to Spain. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell 

Mr. Gladnik. After that, I met him. He was an organizer in the 
o-and-10 center — in the 5-and-lO-cent stores for the Wholesale and 
Retail Workers' Union. This was in 1939. 

Mr. Doyle. Was Camp Unity 

Mr. Clardy. How do you spell that name ? 

Mr. Gladnick. His name is Skolnik. Skolnik is his real name. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliich way do you spell it? 

Mr. Gladnick. S-k-o-l-n-i-k. 

Mr. Clardy. How do you spell Stuart ? 

Stuart is spelled two ways. 

Mr. Gladnick. It's spelled in the Scotch manner S-t-u-a-r- 

Royal House of Stuart. 

Mr. Doyle. Was Camp Unity a Communist-sponsored camp ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Camp Unity, as far as I knew, was owned by the 
Communist Party. Buses used to leave 50 East 13th Street, or 35 
East 12th Street. It is the same building, with a front and rear 
entrance. 

By the way, I w^ould like to make a point here. Under no circum- 
stances should you confuse Camp Unity with Unity House, which is 
a very fine place, owned by the International Ladies Garment Work- 
ers Union and is not in any way connected with the Communist Party. 

Capt. Samuel Stember. I certainly know Stember. He was polit- 
ical commissar of the original Lincoln Battalion, and when we went 
into action he was conspicuous by his absence. 

Lucia — Tony Santa Lucia. I knew him as Tony Sands. He was 
a waterfront Communist when he went to Spain. Today I don't know 
if he is a Communist. 

Mr. Clardy. That you had better spell. 

Mr. Gladnick. Oh, his name is Anthony Santa Lucia — L-u-c-i-a — 
and his party name on the waterfront was Tony Sands. He was a 
member of the longshoremen's fraction. He was a member of the 
waterfront Communist fraction when he went to Spain. Whether 
he is one today or not, I haven't got the slightest idea. 

Anna Taft — a nurse — I think she's the sister — I'm not positive. 
I'm not — I mean I'm just wondering 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, let's 

Mr. Gladnick, I think she is 



Mr. KuNziG (continuing) . Not testify to anything you are not posi- 
tive of. 

Mr. Gladnick. All right. If it is in that family, then it is. It's 
many years ago. 

That's the only people I could see on this list who I'm positive of 
being members of the Communist Party at the time they went to 
Spain. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW YORK AREA 1395 

Mr. KuNziG. And whom you knew as members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right — either in Spain, before or after. 

Mr. KcNziG. Now, I want to turn to something slightly different 
for a few moments. 

You mentioned the Brooklyn Navy Yard earlier. Would you tell 
the committee in detail everything you know about a cell existing at 
the Brooklyn Navy Yard? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, as far as I know, there was a cell existing in 
the Brooklyn Navy Yard, of which I know 3 members — 3 members 
of which are personally known to me. 

Most of the people who went into the na^^ yard went via the CMTC, 
National Guard, building themselves a proper background and repu- 
tation and, on the basis of that, passing the civil-service exam and 
entering the navy yard. 

Some of them took special courses at Baron D. Herb Mechanical 
Trade School in order to be qualifiad mechanics to get in. 

The function of the cell was mostly that — the cell I knew was young 
Communists — Avas to organize an apprentice group within the navy 
yard, oh, like Communists in the other industrial setups, who would 
try to organize trade-union unity league unions. 

This is back in 1931, 1932, and 1933, when Communists had their 
own unions. 

Those in the Brooklyn 'Navy Yard never attempted to organize any 
of these open Communist organizations. 

They organized first this apprentice group, which comprised — the 
only purpose was simple trade-union problems — and the purpose of 
that was to conceal their identity as Communists, so that later on when 
they finished their apprenticeship and became journeymen they would 
enter the regular metal trades' departments of the Brooklyn Navy 
Yard; and on the basis of their experience as leadership, and also 
being Young Communists, and getting outside advice, they soon grew 
in importance within the navy yard. 

Mr. Moulder. That was during the period of time, you say, from 
1931 

Mr. Gladnick. 1931, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1935. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who did you know to be connected with this? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, Velson, or Shavey, I named — Shavey Wilson — 
was one, and 

Mr. KuNziG. Irving Velson, or Shavey Wilson? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

And Dodo Malken. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, just a minute. 

Mr. Gladnick. And George Gorchoff. 

Mr. KuNZiG. How do you spell Dodo Malken ? 

]\Ir, Gladnick. In the Young Conmiunist League I knew him only 
by the name of Dodo. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now is that D-o-d-o? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. And is Malken M-a-1-k-e-n? 

Mr. Gladnick. INI-a-l-k-i-n, or M-a-1-k-e-n. I am not sure of the 
name. 

Mr. Kunzig. x\11 right ; that is two, and who was the third ? 

Mr. Gladnick. George Gorchoff. 



1396 COMJVrUNIST activities in the new YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. George Gorchoff? 

Mr. Gladnick. George Gorchoff. 

Mr. KuNZiG. And George Gorchoff you mentioned earlier in your 
testimony today? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

However, I am of the opniion that the unit was much larger than 
that. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Now, is there any further information that you have, 
or any further testimony that you can give, with regard to Velson? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, as I mentioned before, Shavey Velson was the 
head of the T'oung Communist League group tliat penetrated the 
Armed Forces. At a convention of tli'e Young Connnunist League 
that I attended, Bronx Park-East Allerton section, where the Com- 
munists' at that time had a cooperative house, Velson sat behind a 
curtain listening to the proceedings of the convention. At one part 
of the convention he called in all of the district organizers, and they 
discussed the question of penetration of the Armed Forces in the vari- 
ous districts — Minnesota, Chicago, California — penetration of the Na- 
tional Guard, CMTC, and other Armed Forces' establishments' in that 
area, and he seemed to be the boss of the entire show\ 

Mr. Kearney. The connnittee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 2: 27 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2:32 p. m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 2:40 p. m., the following connnittee 
members being present: Representatives' Bernard W. Kearney (pre- 
siding) , Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Morgan M. Moulder, Clyde 
Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr.). 

Mr. Kearney. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, a few questions : You identified a man by the 
name of Springer who also, as you explained it, had the name of Saul 
when you knew him in New York. Now, I want to ask some questions 
about that for reasons which, of course, you fully understand, but I 
want to get it on the record ; and I will preface it by asking you if this 
document I have is not a report and record of the 2Tth convention of 
the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union? 

Mr. Gladnick. It is. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, I don't intend to read the several pages into the 
record, but there are two places marked here— pages 163 to 1()8 and 
639 to 649. Suppose you tell us in your own words what that part of 
the record bears on and what it means. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, it's a known fact the American labor move- 
ment has pretty well taken care of the Commies within its own ranks. 
The International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union has a very proud 
record in this respect. However, in Los Angeles a small minority 
of Communists, working overtime, were able to control and confuse 
some of our members there and Joe Springer, whom we've mentioned 
here before, became the manager of the Los Angeles executive board. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, that was about what time ? 

Mr. Gi^\DNiCK. I don't know when he became manager, but he was 
up until 1950. 

Mr. Clardy. Go ahead. 

Mr. Gladnick. The international in 1947, at it convention in 194 (, 
sent out a committee of the general executive board to take up the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1397 

question of Communist infiltration and Communist domination and 
fellow traveling within the Los Angeles organization, and this report 
is based upon the report of those officers who went there in 1948, 
1949 — their report to the convention in 1950. 

Ours is a democratic organization, and the convention of all the 
members is the final body, and the final place of appeal. 

The convention unanimously voted — when I say "unanimously," I 
think there were three voted against — voted to rescind, suspend the 
officers of the Los Angeles organization and appoint — the convention 
ordered the general executive board to appoint people, representatives 
of the GEB, to take over the organization in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, was Joe Springer one of those among the sus- 
pended officials? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. And the jjages I have referred to in this document deal 
with the suspension and the actions that led up to that 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). And sort of a detailed history you have 
recited in brief? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, so there will be no mistake about it, I want to 
ask you again to be certain of your identification of Joe Springer as 
also Joe Saul. 

At an executive session of this committee a photograph was exhib- 
ited to you. Do you recall that? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You identified that, I believe, as being the man, Joe 
Springer, you knew ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Joe Saul — Joe Springer. 

Mr. Clardy. There was no doubt and is now no doubt in your mind 
that the man who appeared before this committee in Los Angeles, 
whose picture was exhibited to you, was the Joe Springer or the Joe 
Saul, whichever name we care to use ? 

Mr. Gladnick. There is no doubt the picture you showed me is the 
man. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I have in mind. 

That picture, by the way, was a newspaper picture taken at the time 
of the appearance of the gentleman on the stand at Los Angeles, as we 
told you. 

Now, that leads to something more before I ask the next question. 
At the Los Angeles hearing — and I think we explained this to you — 
Mr. Springer was identified as the gentleman who had organized and 
conducted a Communist school at Crestline, Calif., in December of 
last year, a school where not the neophytes but the liardened Com- 
munists were brought in to be taught the sabotage methods and other 
things you have discussed thus far today. 

Now, at that hearing at which it was disclosed there had been this 
Connnunist school conducted at a camp up in the mountains near Los 
Angeles, Mr. Springer was asked by Mr. Scherer whether he had ever 
used any name other than Springer. 

I am right about tliat, am I not, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And he denied it. 



1398 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW YORK AREA 

That is clearly and flatly in the record that he was never known by 
any other name than by Springer. 

So, again I want to ask you this: Is there at this time any doubt in 
your mind about the dual identity ? 

Mr. Gladnick. No ; it is the same man. 

Mr. Frazier. Show him the picture. 

Mr. ScHERER. I thinlv we can show him the picture. 

Mr. Clardt. Yes. 

Now, we have here again the picture, which has been exhibited to 
you once. 

Mr. ScHERER. This is, I think, a different picture. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, it is the same gentleman. 

Mr. Scherer. The same gentleman. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you identify what paper and what date ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. This is, Mr. Clardy, the Los Angeles Times 
of Thursday morning, March 26, and it carries a headline, "Secret 
Eed Revolution School Near L. A. Bared." 

Mr. Clardy. That is 1953 ? 

Mr. Scherer. 1953 — 2 months ago; and there is a picture of Joe 
Springer on the front page, and, for the purpose of the record, maybe 
we can ask the witness to again look at that picture on the newspaper 
to which I have just referred. 

I will ask you whether that is the man you knew both as Joseph 
Springer and as Joseph Saul. 

Mr. Gladnick. Joe Saul. 

Mr. Scherer. Joe. 

Mr. Gladnick. Not Joseph Saul, but 

Mr. Scherer. Joe Saul? 

Mr. Gladnick. Joe Saul. 

Mr. Scherer. Is that the man ? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's the same man. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we can offer that in evidence, can't we, Mr. 
Counsel, as part of the record? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. It will be received. 

(Tlie newspaper article from the March 26, 1953, issue of the Los 
Angeles Times was received in evidence as Gladnick Exhibit No. 1.) 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Mr. Gladnick, I think you have testified in the 
executive sessions that you visited with Mr. Springer or Mr. Saul at 
Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I did, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Wlien was that ? 

Mr. Gladnick. To the best of my recollection, the months of Janu- 
arv, Februarv, and March of 1934. 

Mr. Clardy. And at that time was the Joe Springer or Joe Saul 
you met the same gentleman whose picture has been 

Mr. Gladnick. Absolutely. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). Exhibited to you? 

Mr. Gladnick. The same man. 

Mr. Clardy. Is he engaged out there in the same activity that he 
was engaged in for a livelihood back here in New York ? 

Mr. Gladnick. In 1934 he was a cloakmaker in n shop. 

Mr. Clardy. He identified himself substantially as that in the 
record for us in California. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1399 

Again, I come back to the question : Ha\dng visited the man, is there 
the slightest possibility of an error by way of identification? 

Mr. Gladnick. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Mr. Chairman, I don't want to read this in the 
record, but I think there should be some extracts put into the record 
after the witness has had a chance to show what should be made part 
of the record here to carry out the story fully in the record. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Beale reminds me that the exhibit I offered should 
be marked as "Gladnick Exhibit No. 1," and then presumably yours is 
Gladnick exhibit No. 2. 

Mr. Clardy. May that be done ? 

Mr. KJEARNEY. That will be done. 

( The excerpts referred to of the record and report of the 27th annual 
convention of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union 
were received in evidence as Gladnick exhibit No. 2.) 

Excerpt From Pages 163 to 168 of the Report and Record of the 27th 
Convention of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union 

CHARGES against L. A. OFFICERS 

Los Ansreles has occupied the attention of the GBB at practically each of its 
sessions during the past several years. There were, of course, industrial mat- 
tex-s which required consideration such as the above referred to general strike in 
1948 in the sportswear industry and also the recurring efforts to organize the 
miscellaneous trades of that city. 

However, it was the internal situation in the cloak joint board and to some 
extent in the dress joint board that has developed as a subject of major and 
constant irritation inasmuch as it affected basic ILGWU policy. Charges 
against officers of the Los Angeles cloak and dress joint boards of "failure to 
adhere to ILGWU policies and principles" have been continually reaching the 
general office of the union from individual members and from groups of Los 
Angeles members. These charges have, on several occasions, been also drawn to 
the attention of the GEB by the director of the Pacific coast region of the 
ILGWU, Vice President Louis Levy. 

These charges contained complaints that the Los Angeles cloak and dress joint 
boards and their component locals have been utilizing their offices and the union's 
prestige in behalf of varied Communist causes and "united front" movements, 
and that these oflScers have caused anquish and embarrassment to loyal ILGWU 
members by their action at Los Angeles Central Labor Council meetings where, 
instead of representing the policies of the ILGWU, our delegates actually repre- 
sented and advocated the policies of the Communist Party. 

The situation with regard to these violations became even more acute when, in 
the course of organizational work, the union was prevented from obtaining 
certification from the NLRB because some of the accused officers who took an 
oath of allegiance to the ILGWU, had violated that oath by following the instruc- 
tions of the Communist Party not to sign the anti-Communist affidavits and had 
thereby deprived the members of union-shop status. 

Still other charges recited complaints that tliese officers have consistently given 
known Communists job preference in the shops and that shop chairmen who were 
not party followers have been systematically replaced by Communist sympa- 
thizers. A veritable reign of terror has all but silenced opposition from non- 
Communist members in the Los Angeles cloak and dress shops, it was reported. 

Action to correct this situation became imperative, and the GEB at its fourth 
quarterly meeting in Miami Beach in December 1948 appointed a committee of 
three vice presidents, Luigi Antonini, Isidore Nagler, and Joseph Breslaw, to 
proceed at an early date to Los Angeles, to investigate the matter in full, and 
to take whatever steps they might find necesssary to rectify it. 

GEB committee INVESTIGATES 

This special committee early in March 1949 went to Los Angeles, and after 
hearings which lasted .") days presented its findings, in the form of oflBcial deci- 
si(ms, to both the cloak and dress joint boards. 



1400 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

The special committee's decisions, liowever, wliile based on findings which 
proved the guilt of tliose Los Angeles officers who were charged with violations 
of ILGWU laws and rules, nevertheless were not of a final nature but rather 
of a probationary character. They amounted to suspended sentences issued 
in the hope that the transgressors would take these admonitions to heart and 
would mend their ways. 

Reproduced below are some of the pertinent excerpts of the findings of the 
GEB special committee on the situation in Los Angeles dated March 20, 1941) : 

Findings and decisions of the special committee of the ffcneral executive board 

The special committee consisting of First Vice President Luigi Antouini and 
Vice Presidents Isidore Nagler and Joseph Breslaw, designated by the general 
executive board to investigate a number of matters which have been brought to 
its attention regarding the union in the city of Los Angeles, such as charges filed 
by a number of members of the union against the officers of the cloak joint board 
and its component local unions ; to make inquiry and ascertain the facts in regard 
to a petition for the establishment and chartering of a separate local union of 
cloak operators within tlie cloak joint board ; and to investigate in general the 
administrative affairs of the cloak joint board and its component local unions, 
lias held hearings upon these matters for 5 days. 

"The special committee was vested with full power and authority by the 
general executive board to make such determinations and to take such appro- 
priate action as in its opinion is warranted, based upon the facts, circumstances, 
and conditions disclosed after proper hearing and investigation. 

"The special committee has made every effort to get all the facts in order 
to enable it to make a proper determination. 

"The hearings held by the special conuuittee, as both parties have stated before 
the special committee, were conducted in a fair and impartial manner and in 
accordance with the constitution of our international in the highest ethics of 
the progressive trade-union movement. 

"We regretfully state that the facts disclosed by the hearing warrant the taking 
of immediate corrective measures if the good name, traditions, and policies of 
our international are to be preserved. The hearings disclosed the fact that the 
cloak joint board and its component local unions have on different occasions 
adhered to and pursued policies and procedures inimicable to the best interest 
of our international union. In the opinion of the si»ecial committee, these policies 
and procedures were pursued only because of the pressure of an insignificant 
group of Communist leaders who have infiltrated the joint board and its com- 
ponent local unions. 

"Some of these action were as follows : 

"(a) Supporting directly or indirectly Communist-front organizations. 

"(6) Contributing funds to a number of such organizations. 

"(c) Sending representatives or delegates to the central labor council and 
the State federation of labor who are well-known Communists and/or followers 
of the Communist Party line. 

"(d) Introducing before the central labor council and the State federation of 
labor resolutions, and supporting before these bodies other resolutions, directly 
contrary to the policies and interest of our international union, thus creating 
the impression in the labor movement and the community generally that the 
cloak joint board and its component locals are Communist-dominated unions. 
These facts are borne out by the testimony at the hearing of Brothers Thomas 
Ranford, president of the Los Angeles Central Labor Council, and W. J. Bassett, 
secretary of the Los Angeles Central Labor Council. 

"(c) Supporting organizations which exist as dual organizations to legitimate 
organizations sponsored generally by the American Federation of Labor and our 
international union. 

"(/) Condoning the usage of the name of the cloak joint board by officers who 
lent their names to Communist-front or Communist Party organizations and 
literature. 

"The committee is at this moment not desirous of disposing of the charges 
before it, although the evidence adduced at the hearings might warrant a more 
drastic solution, but rather attempts to correct certain situations, the correc- 
tion of which, if carried out in accordance with the direction of this special 
committee, ma.v obviate the necessity of further action on the charges. 

"The committee hereby directs that the cloak joint board and its component 
locals be placed under the supervision of the international union and the general 
office for such a period of time as the general executive board may deem it 
advisable. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1401 

"In addition to general supervision, the supervisor is directed to act on the 
following' matters : 

(a) To lully investigate the present method of unemployment registration and 
iob assignments within the local unions comprising; the joint board, and to see to 
it that a policy of strict equality is maintained in the distribution of jobs. 

(&) To assure that the delegates sent to tlie central labor council and the State 
federation of labor are of such caliber as will truly represent the policies and 
principles of our international union. 

(c) To assure that the cloak joint board will not make contributions to any 
organization that is inimicable to the policies and principles of our international 
union. 

"The committee is of the hope that its decisions will lead the way toward the 
creation of a harmonious and loyal relationship between the cloak joint board and 
tlie international, to the end that the great membership of the Los Angeles cloak 
joint board will benefit by such relationship." 

A FEW CORRECTIVE STEPS 

The GEB committee, after having submitted its findings and decisions to the 
two Los Angeles joint boards and prior to its departure for New York, accepted 
the resignations of two of the cloak joint board business agents, Charles Glad- 
stone and Morris Isaacman, and declared vacant the office of a special organizer 
of cutters local 84 held by Jack Haas. The committee also removed from office 
Sara Dnrner as chairman of the dress joint board, Abe Kendzer, vice chairman, 
of local 9(;, and Claire Harford, organizer of the dress joint board, an active Com- 
munist. All these officers were charged, among other things, with refusing to 
sign the non-Communist atlidavits. 

The GEB committee further announced the appointment of Morris Bagno, for 
several years assistant director of the cloak out-of-town department in the East, 
as general supervisor of the Los Angeles cloak joint board. Supervisor Bagno, 
among other duties, was assigned to intitute a policy of strict equality in the 
distribution of jobs; to make sure delegates to central bodies from the joint 
board and its locals would represent the interests of the union and the accepted 
policies of the ILGWU, and that the cutters local 84 establish complete coopera- 
tion with the sportswear joint council. 

A similar series of measures was contained In the GEB committee's decision 
affecting the dress joint board. All officers were ordered to sign non-Communist 
affidavits, and the board and its locals were instructed hot to make any contri- 
butions to any organization that is inimical to the policies and principles of the 
ILGWU. Margaret Di Maggio, veteran organizer in the dress industry in the 
East and for many years in the service of local 80, was appointed general 
organizer for the dress joint board and international representative. 

DIRECTIVES STILL EVADED 

Nevertheless, the following 8 months have proved that the anticipation of the 
special GEB committee for a forthright acceptance of its decisions by the Los 
Angeles olficials have not materialized. While the situation in the dress joint 
board did improve considerably, the leadership of the cloak joint board has con- 
tinued to sabotage the policies of the inteVnational, obstructed the work of 
Supervisor Bagno and continued to embarrass the ILGWU by sending disloyal 
delegates to the Los Angeles central body in defiance of the GEB. The inter- 
national was compelled to issue frequent directives to these Los Angeles officers, 
wiiile the confusion in the ranks of our members kept growing and the stability 
of the organization was being jeopardized. This state of affairs was affecting 
the union's position in its dealings with the employers and hampered it from 
exercising a constructive influence on the industry. 

It is for these reasons that the GEB, after hearing reports from President 
Dnbinsky, from Vice President Louis Stulberg, who visited Los Angeles upon the 
president's instructions, and of Supervisor Morris Bagno, decided to defer local 
elections for officers and executive boards of the Los Angeles cloak and dress 
joint boards and their component local unions, and to call upon the convention 
to deal with this matter and to promulgate a firm policy. The decision by the 
GEB, adopted on Januai-j' 19, 1050, in the form of a resolution, reads as follows: 

GEB recounts case 

"Whereas charges of serious and grave misr-onduct in violation of the consti- 
tution of the ILGWU, were duly filed with the GEB l)y 27 meml)ers of the ILGWU, 
against the liOS Angeles cloak joint board, the Los Angeles dress joint board, 



1402 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

their componeut local unions, and all their oflSners and all the members of their 
executive boards ; and 

"Whereas the GEB appointed a siiecial committee to investigate such charges 
and other matters in connection with the administration of the joint boards and 
local unions, and the special committee held hearings in the city of Los Angeles, 
for 5 days in March 1949 ; and 

"Whereas the special committee recommended certain action on the basis of 
its interim and partial report to the GEB, in which it stated that both joint 
boards and their component local unions 'have on different occasions adhered to 
and pnrsued policies and procedures inimicable to the best Interests of our inter- 
national union. In the opinion of the special committee these i>olicies and pro- 
cedures were pursued only because of the pressure of an insignificant group of 
Communist leaders who have intiltrated the joint Iroard and its component local 
imions.' 

"However the special committee further stated that 'The committee is at this 
moment not desirous of disposing of the charges before it, although the evidence 
adduced at the hearings might warrant a more drastic solution, but rather at- 
tempts to correct certain situations, the correction of which, if carried out in 
accordance with the direction of the special committee, may obviate the necessity 
of further action on the charges' ; and 

"Whereas on June 9, 1949, the GEB inianimously approved and accepted the 
report of the special committee as an interim and partial report ; and 

Effects on union morale 

"Whereas events since the approval of such report and the directives of the 
special committee have demonstrated that the hopes of the special committee 
have not materialized ; and that the situations concerning which it reported have 
not been corrected, thereby undermining the stability of the Los Angeles organi- 
zation, and reflecting advei'sely upon the morale and prestige of the membership 
and the Los Angeles organization, as well as upon the entire membership of the 
ILGWU and its standing in the garment industry and in the labor movement 
in general ; and 

"Whereas \x\yon the petition of Los Angeles members of the ILGWU, the GEB 
has chartered two separate new local unions of operators and finishers in place 
of the fonner local 65, and such new local unions are about to elect their first 
oflicers and executive board members; and 

"Whereas the charges and subsequent events affect both the cloak joint board 
and the dress joint board in Los Angeles, and their component local union of cut- 
ters (84) and the local union of pressers (97) are alfiliated with both joint boards, 
and affect, and ar>> affected by, the actions of l»oth joint boaids ; and 

Convention final judge 

"Whereas any previous decisions, orders, and directives of the GEB, relative 
to this situation, and any which the GEB might now make, will be subject to the 
approval of the forthcoming convention of the ILGWU, the supreme governing 
body of the union ; and 

"Whereas the GEB is of the opinion that the report of the special committee 
of the GEB, and all decisions, orders, and dii-ectives of the GEB pertaining to 
the Ix)s Angeles situation, as well as the contentions of the present decided by 
the forthcoming convention, scheduled to commence on May 23, administrations 
of the cloak and dress joint boards should be considered in 1950; and 

"Whereas since the convention will have to establish policy and procedure to 
be followed pertaining to this situation, the GEB decides that no further cor- 
rective measures should be taken at this meeting, but the entire matter should 
be referred to the convention as a special order of liusiness so that the con- 
vention may lay down policy and procedure for the guidance of the membership 
and the administrations of our organizations in Los Angeles. 

The GEB further decides 

"1. Delegates and alternate delegates to the 27th convention of the ILGWU 
shall l)e elected in accordance with the provisions of the ILGWU constitution. 

"2. Elections of ofl3cers and executive board menil:ers of the Los Angeles cloak 
and dress joint hoards and their component local unions shall be deferred until 
such elections can be held pursuant to the decision of the Cfuivention, so that the 
administrations then elected shall be in accordance with the mandate and policies 
and decisions determined by the convention; and any steps already taken by 
the dress and cloak joint boai'ds and their component local unions preparatory 
to holding such elections now shall be held in abeyance. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1403 

"3. The term of office of each present officer, and the tenure of position of each 
executive board lucniber, of the Los Angeles cloak joint board and Los Angeles 
dress joint board, and each of their component local unions, shall coiitinue until 
their successors have been deternnned under whatever decision is rendered by 
the 27th convention of the ILGWU. 

"4. General supervisor Morris Bagno and General Organizer Margaret Di 
Maggio shall continue to function under the previous directives of the GEB 
until otherwise directed by the GEB or the convention. 

"5. The president of the ILGWU is hereby authorized, empowered, and di- 
rected to bring this decision to the attention of the joint boards and local unions 
affected, and to take whatever steps may be necessary to effectuate this." 

TTP TO CONVENTION NOW 

As this situation has developed during the past few years and up until today, 
the Los Angeles cloak joint board and its component locals are the only sector 
within our international union where we are faced with irritating and unstable 
internal conditions. Tlie GEB has displayed lon-j; and unrewarding patience in 
the Los Angeles situation; tliroughout this period it did not wisli to resort to a 
procedure of deposing the guilty officers or to reorganize the union in question or 
to adopt other stringent steps although the situation warranted it and although 
many demands from members to that effect had poured into the general office. 

We abstained from drastic measures in the hope that this situation, grave 
though it is, would eventually resolve itself. The situation has not and, quite 
apparently, will not resolve of itself. Corrective measures have become essen- 
tial. We are calling this situation, therefore, to the attention of this convention 
with the recommendation that the convention adopt corrective steps that would 
joake our Los Angeles organization an integral part of the ILGWU, to serve 
the interests of the members and the union and not a political group. 



Excerpt From Pages 639 to 640 of the Report and Record of the 27th CJonven- 
TioN OF the International Ladies' Garment Workers Union 

President Dubinsky. I will ask the committee on officers report to submit 
that part of the report which deals with the Los Angeles situation which has 
been referred by the general executive hoard to this convention. 

The chairman of the committee will proceed with his report. 

LOS ANGELES SITUATION 

Delegate Shane. The report of the general executive board devotes con.sider- 
able space to the international situation in the cloak joint board and in the dress 
joint board of Los Angeles. The delegates will find that 6 pages of the report 
beginning with page 163 and concluding with page 168, are devoted to the Los 
Angeles internal strnggle. In ci»nnection therewith, our committee is called 
upon to deal with resolution No. 35, introduced by local 97, expressing thanks 
to the general executive board for taking the action it did in connection with 
Los Angeles. 

Your committee carefully examined the report of the general executive board. 
We also examined the minutes of the hearings before the special committee con- 
sisting of First Vice President Luigi Antonini and Vice Presidents Isidore Nagler 
and Joseph Breslaw, designated by the general executive board to investigate 
the situation in Los Angeles. At our request the delegates of the cloak and 
dress joint boards and of locals 55 and .58 (formerly 65). 84, 96. and 97, api)eared 
before us and presented their views. We also received a written statement 
from the representative of the cloak joint lioard in support of its position and 
a written statement from local 84 denying the charges its membership has either 
subscribed to the policies of the C'omnumist Party or that it has failed to 
cooperate 100 percent with the policies of the international. We also received 
the views of Vice President Louis Levy, Abe Levy, and Morris Bagno, who was 
designated general supervisor for the cloak joint board, and Margaret di Maggio, 
who was designated international representative and general organizer for the 
dress joint board. 

The attention of the delegates is drawn to the fact that the irritating internal 
situation in Los Angeles has existed for several years. We do not know of any 
specific local internal situation which has occupied so much attention and has 
taken so much time and energy of the general executive board as this Los Angeles 



1404 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

situation. The very fact that the board found it necessary to send a special 
committee of three vice presidents to investijiate the situation on the spot and 
to take testimony of the various factions involved and the very fact that there- 
after, in accordance with the reconuuendations of that special committee the 
board found it necessary to designate a supervisor for the cloak joint board 
and a special representative as general organizer for the dress joint board, indi- 
cates how aggravated the internal situation in Los Angeles is. In the opinion 
of your committee, the findings and decision of the special committee of tlie 
general executive board was fully warranted and we concur with the action 
taken by the GEB on that report. It is to be noted that the special committee 
of the GEB was far from convinced that the recommendations made by it would 
be sufficient to solve the Los Angeles problem. It expressed a hope that "its 
decision will lead the way toward the creation of a harmonious and loyal rela- 
tionship among all concerned." Your committee regrets to say that the hopes 
of the special committee of the GEB did not materialize. 

One of the questions which concerned your committee was to what extent 
have the directives given by the international to the Los Angeles representatives 
been carried out in good faith. 

The position of the manager of the cloak joint board at our hearings, in sub- 
stance, was that it has complied with the recommendations and decisions of 
the general executive board. He did not deny that prior thereto, contributions 
were made by the cloak joint board to causes and organizations opposed to 
the International Ladies' Garment Workers Union; that the representatives of 
the joint board at the Central Labor Council and State Federation [Labor] of 
California had and supported the views contrary to the official position of the 
International. He also admitted that for a period of almost 2 years the cloak 
joint board could not make use of the machinery of the National Labor Relations 
Board because two of its business agents refused to sign the non-Communist 
affidavits required under the law. However, he claimed that they remained on 
the payroll because Vice President Levy advised him that no elections should 
take place until specific orders to that effect would be given by the GEB. Vice 
President Levy gave us an entirely different version of tliis incident. 

Wholly aside from the issue of whether or not the joint boards and their 
component locals have conducted themselves in a spirit becoming organizations 
of our international, and of whether or not they complied in good faith with 
the decisions made by the general executive board based upon the recommenda- 
tions of its special committee, we deplore the fact that the membership of the 
joint boards were driven into factions, a faction in support of the policies of 
the ILGWU and a faction in opposition to the representatives of the ILGWU. 
This split is carried over into the shops and into the street with the result that 
the union is split and the influence of the union and of the international is con- 
tinuously being undermined. If this situation is permitted to continue much 
longer, the division in the ranks will become wider and deeper, will affect the 
interest not only of the members of the cloak industry but of the international 
in the entire Los Angeles area. 

In the opinion of your committee the very fact that the Coat and Suit Manu- 
facturers' Association in Los Angeles, which has been in existence for 35 years, 
has chosen this particular moment to take steps for dissolution in an effort to 
evade its responsibilities under the collective labor agreement, could be traced 
directly to the split in the cloak joint board. 

We do not mean to imply that this is the only cause which prompted the 
association to take this step. Undoubtedly, there are industrial problems with 
which it is confi-onted which will require a solution in which the union will 
have to participate. The association, however, sought to take advantage of the 
internal union situation. It is only the determined stand taken by President 
Dubinsky wdiich has compelled the association to at least temporarily continue 
with their labor relations as provided in the collective agreement. We dealt 
with that situation elsewhere in that report. We refer to it again at this time 
only to emphasize the consequences that may follow from the policy of the 
present leadership of the cloak joint board and its effect on the wages and 
earnings of the workers in this industry. This situation cannot and must not 
be tolerated. 

Your committee is convinced that the guiding spirits of the present admin- 
istrations of the locals and of the joint boards have been under the influence, 
if not the actual domination, of members of the Communist Party, which is 
inimical to the spirit and practices of our international. We are further con- 
vinced that by removing from office those who declined to sign the non-Connniniist 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1405 

affidavit, the dominant influences in these atlministrations have not been com- 
pletely eradicated. We are also convinced that the recommendations of the 
special committee of the GEB were not lived np to in good faith. The alleged 
attempts at compliance were merely superficial, at best technical; they were 
not genuine; they wei-e lacking a real desire to comply with the spirit which 
prompted these recommendations. The promises and protestations of loyalty 
have been made with mental reservations. 

We are of the opinion that the charge of communism insofar as the member- 
ship of the cloak and of the dress joint boards is concerned has been grossly 
exaggerated. We are convinced that the greatest majority of our members and 
even of the administrations of the locals coming under these joint boards are 
neither Communists, fellow travelers, nor even members following the line of 
the Communist Party. We are, however, convinced that the Communist fol- 
lowers in the locals and in the joint boards have so dominated these administra- 
tions that by various means they succeeded in having a majority in these 
administrations follow their wills and policies imposed by them. The natural 
inclination of people to find themselves with the majority prompted some of the 
minority, including local 84, to follow the guiding influence cf this controlled 
majority. This may explain the actions of the representatives of local 84 in 
their own local as well as in the joint board. 

As long as these influences will remain in power, there will be no internal 
peace in the Los Angeles joint boards. If these factors are permitted to con- 
tinue, the strength and influence of the joint boards in Los Angeles will deteriorate 
industrially, the membership will suffer the consequences, and the prestige of 
the international will be greatly undermined. Tho>e who have been under the 
influence of the Communist followers will seek to widen their influence and 
secure more adherence to their faction at the expense of and to the detriment of 
the international. The recommendations of the special committee of the GEB 
did not prove to be sufficient to permeate the joint boards with the spirit of 
loyalty to the international which is prevalent in the other locals. The Los 
Angeles unions are still divided. The supervisor designated by the GEB for the 
cloak joint board is pointed at as if he were an outsider, a policeman with a 
club over their heads. His presence in Los Angeles is used by the anti- 
international forces for agitation to antagonize the union members against the 
international. The joint boards, especially that of the cloak, conduct themselves 
as if there were two policies in our international. Only one policy can and must 
prevail and that is the public policy enunciated by the international. 

Your committee is not unmindful that since the I'eport of the special committee 
of the GEB has been made, there were considerable changes in the attitude of 
all of the locals and the joint boards to the international, especially in locals 84, 
96, and in the dress joint board. We are also not unmindful that some of the 
locals, especially locals 97 and even 84, have at all times had a very wholesome 
respect for all directives and orders issued by the general office of our interna- 
tional. However, since all of them have been a part of the joint boards which 
warrant the measures hereinafter recommended by us, we believe that these 
measures should apply to any and all locals comprising the joint boards in the 
cloak and dress industries, as well as the joint boards themselves. 

We therefore recommend : 

1. In view of the fact that the term of the present administrations in the 
cloak and dress joint boards and their component locals had already expired, 
and that the present executive boards and officers are merely holdovers, and that 
no elections, pursuant to previous directives, have as yet been held in the newly 
established locals 5.5 and 58 (formerly local 05), the incoming GEB is hereby 
authorized, empowered, and directed to declare the terms of office of all the 
administrations of the joint hoards and all their component locals as ended. 
The exact date or dates on which these terms shall be ended is left to the sole 
discretion of the incoming GEB. The term "administrations" shall include not 
only the paid and nonpaid officers but also the executive boards and any and all 
delegates and committees designated or appointed by the respective executive 
boards. 

2. Pending the setting of a date for elections as referred to hereafter, the in- 
coming GEB is hereby authorized, empowered, and directed to designate pro- 
visional administrations for any and all of said locals and joint boards as it 
may deem advisable. 

3. The incoming general executive board is authorized, empowered, and directed 
to set a date or dates for elections of administrations in the respective locals 
and the joint boards as soon as possible. The exact date or dates is left to the 



1406 CO]VIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

sole discretion of the GEB. However, in those locals or joint boards for which 
provisional administrations have been designated by the GEB, no elections 
shall be held until an opportunity is extended to the provisional administra- 
tions to get thoroughly acquainted with the situation and report to the GEB its 
recommendations. 

4. Any and all members of the administrations of both the cloak and dress 
joint boards and of all their component locals, as well as all those members who 
have aided and abetted in instigating the union members against the official 
policies of the international, shall be ineligible to hold office or be candidates 
for office for the ensuing term. 

The incoming GEB is hereby authorized, empowered, and directed to pass 
upon the eligibility of any member to be a candidate or hold office during the 
ensuing term in any of the administrations of the joint boards and their com- 
ponent locals. The decision of the GEB or of any representative designated by 
it for the purpose of passing upon the eligibility of candidates for any office, 
shall be final. 

5. The powers granted herein by this convention to the incoming GEB may 
be delegated by it to a special committee or to any representative or representa- 
tives it may designate under such supervision and direction as it may deem 
advisable. 

6. The incoming GEB is hereby authorized, empowered, and directed, with 
its sole discretion, to suspend either or both joint boards and any or all of their 
component locals, to revoke the charters of either or both joint boards and of 
any or of all of their component locals, and to reorganize either or both joint 
boards and any or all of their component locals. 

The incoming GEB is also authorized, empowered, and directed to implement 
the power given to it by this convention in any manner that it may deem fit for 
the purpose of effectuating the main objective of this decision. 

7. The powers granted by this convention to the incoming GEB to deal with 
the present internal situation in both the cloak and dress joint boards and their 
component locals in Los Angeles, shall not be deemed to be restricted by any of 
the provisions in the constitution of our international. 

The welfare of the membership of Los Angeles and the interest of our inter- 
national warrants that these broad powers shall be granted to the incoming 
GEB. We sincerely hope that there will be no need for the board to exercise 
all these powers. 

Delegate Shane. Mr. President, I move the adoption of this part of the report. 
[Applause.] 

President Dubinsky. You heard the report and the recommendation of the 
committee. 

Delegate Joseph Springer. In the report as submitted by the committee on 
officers report, various statements have been made in regard to the Los Angeles 
situation. I would like to say a few words on particularly this matter because 
certain things have been brought out here, as far as the testimony is concerned, 
in the matter of noncomplying with the decision of the general executive board 
that was out a year ago in the city of Los Angeles, and also in the matter where 
it deals with the two business agents that did not sign the non-Communist Taft- 
Hartley affidavits, and what were the reasons for holding them in office. 

On the question of why they were held in office during that period of time, as 
the committee states, we presented our statement to the committee. However, 
the committee further states that Vice President Levy's statements were to the 
contrary. We called it to the attention of the committee. However, I wish to 
call it to the attention of this convention that sometime early in February 1948, 
we had a general strike in Los Angeles. However, not only did the cloak joint 
board retain them on the orders of Vice President Levy, but Levy himself, at that 
particular time, took 1 of those 2 business agents, namely Glasgow, and put him 
in a leading position in the strike. If the joint board did anything wrong in 
the matter of retainint; those 2 I)usiness ng'Mits for IH months or thereabout, how 
is it then the conunittee states that the joint board did iu»t live up to the decision 
of the general executive board when one of the membeis of the general executive 
board told us not to dispense with their services and he himself put him into 
office? 

Now, then, another problem that the committee deals with is the problem of 
the Cloak Manufacturers Association, and I believe thnt it is nothing new to the 
members of this convention because in the officers report appears a letter, or 
rather a transcript of a letter, which was sent to the president of the Los Angeles 
association, to a gentleman by the name of Mr. Silbert. Now I want to state 



COMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1407 

this, that not only is the question of the dissension in Los Angeles not caused 
because we cannot agree on settlement of prices or economic conditicms, but it 
is something else, and I will talk on this particular problem in a minute. But 
the association is claiming that our Los Angeles people are way out of line in 
the question of earnings, of wages, and we know in Los Angeles they are incor- 
rect. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is a Federal fact-finding agency and let 
me quote you — in the last computations that I was able to obtain as of January 
1950, we find, for example, that operators are getting $3.29 an hour. This is 
what the association is claiming, and this is what we disagree with. Therefore, 
let us not state, as the committee states it, because there are some differences in 
the city of Los Angeles, that that is the reason why the association is taking 
advantage of our organization at the present time. 

Now, then, on the question of differences of opinion, let us examine and let 
us see what has caused it particularly after the committee consisting of Vice 
Presidents Antonini, Breslaw, and Nagler were out there. Did the joint board 
try to cooperate as laid down by thise three vice presidents? We certainly did. 
The joint board as such tried to comply within the framework of the decision of 
the three vice presidents. However, when Supervisor Bagno came out there, 
a group was organized under Brother Bagno's supervision. This is not living 
up to the spirit of the three vice presidents of the general executive board who 
came out to Los Angeles. This tended to divide the membership and, therefore, 
let us read the letter the way it should be read and let tis not read it one sided. 

Delegate Abe F. Levy (local 496). I am aihliated with the joint council. I 
think it is fitting that the loyal unions in Los Angeles arise at this time to say 
a few words. You, delegates, who are sitting here are probably hearing about 
the Los Angeles situation for the first time. We have been living with it for 
5 years or 6. We have been living in the Berlin of our international. The city 
has been half loyal and half disloyal. I do not know whether you people realize 
what it means to live in a city where the members of your own union are con- 
stantly sticking the knife of betrayal in your back. I wish I had the permission 
of the convention to give you a few examples of what the Communists did not 
only to the cloakmakers and to the dressmakers, but what they did to the loyal 
sportswear workers in the city of Los Angeles as well. 

What does it mean to be a member of the international in this Berlin? It 
means that you are a member of a union which is branded in the public press, in 
the halls of organized labor and throughout the community as a Communist- 
front union. It means picking up the newspapex's and seeing full-page advertise- 
ments inserted by nonunion and antiunion manufacturers, stating in bold print 
that the ILGWU is a Communist union because its officers have refused to sign 
the non-Communist affidavit required by law. It means that Communist-front 
organizations put out publications and leaflets on which appear the names of the 
Los Angeles cloak and dress boards and those of the responsible officers of those 
unions. 

It means that financial support is contributed in substantial sums to Com- 
munist-front organizations by your own union. It means going to the State 
convention of the American Federation of Labor and having a delegate from 
local 65 refused his seat at that convention because he is found by the com- 
mittee on credentials to be a member of the Communist Party. 

We have to sit there and take that upon our siioulders. In the political field 
it means that while you work for the candidates and for the policies that are 
endorsed by the recognized labor movement, that these betrayers of labor hold 
their own candidates and make their own holidays and the International Ladies' 
Garment Workers' Union is charged with that responsibility. 

I say to you, a lot of you know and a lot of you don't know, that tbe Commu- 
nist policy today is as it was in 1926 to 1929: If you cannot control the interna- 
tional, destroy it. In 1947 they sneaked up to our election to the sportswear 
joint council and brazenly conducted a campaign to dislodge the loyal elements 
and gain complete control over the entire union in Los Angeles. 

It is to the credit of the sportswear workers tliat they had the good sen.se 
and loyalty to throw this challenge back into the teeth of the Communists and 
the fact that the joint council is today a beachhead of loyalty to the interna- 
tional because they failed in their attempt to capture complete control of the 
union. 

I say to you, and I am not the only one, I hope, who will say this to you, be- 
cause there are other delegates, not from Los Angeles, who were in Los Angeles 
during the strike of 1948, and they will agree with me when I say that when 
we called a general strike for the purpose of organizing the balance of the dress 



1408 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

and sportswear market, that the Communists sabotaged that strike. I say to you 
that when Brother Baguo came to Los Angeles, after he was appointed by the 
general executive board to go out there and see what he could do to bring peace 
and harmony, he made an organization drive, and the Communists attempted 
to appoint over his head three organizers, and when those organizers were put 
aside by the general executive board and by Brother Bagno, the Communists 
raised a howl that he has sabotaged the organization of the joint cloak board. 

Oh, yes, the People's World which is a west coast equivalent to the Daily 
Worker, prints statements to the effect that the international is permitting the 
open shop to spread, that the cloakmakers are suffering because of the spread 
of the open shop, while their comrades in the union sit on their hands and sabo- 
tage ; they would destroy the union if they cannot conrol it. 

I want to cite an instance to you which more than anything else crystalizes 
what it means to be a loyal member of the international. You heard how tlie 
officers of the joint board refused to execute the non-Communist affidavits. You 
heard that they remained in office for 2 years after that. What you did not 
hear was this : Local 84, the cutter's union, is not only a cloak or a dress but 
a sportswear local. Local 84 is part and parcel of the sportswear contract. 

In 1948, when we executed a new contract in the sportswear industry, we went 
to the National Labor Kelations Board and we said, "Gentlemen, conduct the | 
union-shop election for us. We want to keep our contract, we want to keep our ' 
security." 

The National Labor Relations Board said to us, "We are sorry ; local 206 
has disqualified ; the joint council has qualified, but local 84 is not qualified, 
because it is part of a union which has not signed the affidavits ; therefore, since 
this is one whole unit for the purpose of collective bargaining, we cannot grant 
you an election." 

What happened was that this year the open shoppers filed a complaint 
against the sportswear union before the National Labor Relations Board, charging 
we had violated the act by failing to conduct a union-shop election. Our contract 
is in jeopardy. The NLRB has threatened to invalidate it, to remove us as a col- 
lective-bargaining agency, and we may have to go through a general strike to 
preserve our working conditions — all because the disloyal business agents and 
their associates refused to sign the non-Communist affidavits. 

What happened after they refused to sign those non-Communist affidavits? 
Springer stood up here and beat his breast saying they are not responsible ; they 
had orders from Vice President Levy and President Dubinsky not to replace 
these people and not hold an election. What he failed to tell you was, it was 
his duty as a manager of a joint board to remove those two business agents, 
regardless of what occurred. [Applause.] 

Appointment was offered to them. No ; they wouldn't take appointment ; they 
were looking for political issues with which to fight the international. I had 
quite a bit more to say, but I think what I said convinces you of what it means 
to be loyal to the international in Los Angeles. I appeal to the delegates of 
this convention to adopt the report of the committee, to free Los Angeles, to 
bring all of the members within the fold of our great and glorious international 
union once again. 

President Dubinsky. First Vice President Antonlni, who was a member of 
the committee, wants to say a few words. [Applause.] 

First Vice President Antonini. In listening to Brother Springer I had to 
smile, because I was the chairman of the special committee of the general ex- 
ecutive board sent to Los Angeles to remedy that situation. There is an old 
saying in Italian which, translated, means, "If the dragon is softhearted, gan- 
grene may set in in the wound." 

We had a strong committee, and after we had talked to the people in Los An- 
geles we said, "It is up to you to remedy the situation." We hoped that at 
the jubilee convention of our international the Los Angeles union would come 
to us as part and parcel of our great international. We regret that this has 
not come to pass. 

In reading the last recommendation of the report, it says, "We sincerely 
hope that there will be no need for the board to exercise all those powers." It 
ended with exactly the same words of your special committee report in Los An- 
geles. I think that this is a time for real surgery. The conuuittee gave the 
proper decision. If we are concerned about other unions trying to erase the 
blot of Stalinists, well, let's start to clean our own house. [Applause.] 

Brother President, I rise to support 100 percent the recommendation of the 
committee on officers' report. [Applause.] 






COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1409 

President Duiiixskt. Delegate Jackson, of local GO, promised me he would 
speak only 1 or 2 minutes. 

Delegate Allan Jackson (local 60). Brother President, fellow delegates, I 
do know the international is a united organization, and we must not allow the 
seeds of dissension to divide us. [Applause.] We know at once our adversary, 
the Communists. We do not want them in our schools, and we surely do not 
want them in our international union, the ladies' garment workers. [Ap- 
plause.] 

I think we all recommended that our delegates adopt the report as read from 
the platform. [Applause.] 

President Dltbinsky. I told you this morning that I received a telegram, 
and I would refer to it when this matter would be discussed. It was sent from 
Los Angeles, and it reads as follows : 

"Greetings on the .50th birthday of our union. We, the undersigned members 
of local 96, wish to express our hope that this convention will see fit to apply 
to the case of Los Angeles Dress .Toint Board those traditions of free and 
democratic trade unionism which established this great organization at its very 
beginning. 

"Fraternally, 

"Ida Jackson. 
"Jenny Rackliff. 
"Mart Levine. 
"Rae Becker. 
"Sarah Dorner." 

The reason I wanted to read this telegram was because Sarah Dorner's name 
was on the telegram. When I was in Los Angeles immediately after the adjourn- 
ment of the American Federation of Labor Convention in 1947, I had a com^ 
mittee in my room consisting of representatives of the cloak joint board and 
of the dress joint board. I informed these delegations .separately that the 
general executive board of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union, 
democratically elected by its members and entrusted with the destinies and 
the welfare of the menibership. decided that it is in the interest of the members 
and of the union to comply with the law and sign the non-Communist affidavits. 

And I know I told them that the Communist Party decided otherwise, and I 
asked them, "Will you comply with the decisions of your union or will you 
comply with the decisions of the Communist Party?" and the answer was that 
tliey needed time to consider it. 

And this woman has the nerve and the audacity to speak of free and demo- 
cratic tiade unionism. Free democratic trade unionism means that we make the 
decisions ; we. the members ; we, the officers ; we, the union ; and we decide the 
policies according to our conscience, according to our interests, and according 
to our laws ; and that any member who acts in the union according to the orders 
and decisions of the Communist Party cannot be called a free trade unionist. 
[Applause.] 

Delegate Springer, please don't consider us a bunch of darned fools. When 
you say that two business agents stayed in the office for a year and we have 
jeopardized the agreement of the sportswear industry because Levy did not hold 
the elections, it is correct. Of course. Levy told you not to hold the election. 
I told T><evy not to permit elections because we didn't want to exchange one 
Communist for another Communist. [Applause.] 

And are you trying to create the impression here that because we had a 
strike and these oflicers were put on committees during the strike, that this in 
any way justified your double talk, your double-dealing, your double-loyalty? 

Of course, when we have a strike and you give us Conununists as officers, and 
we want the organization to be represented, we, unfortunately, have got to put 
them on the committees, and Levy wanted to get the support of the cloakmakers 
joint board, but this i.s the kind of matei'ial that you had available for ns. What 
we are trying to do is make sure tiiat when we have a strike in the future we 
will have loyal manpower and we won't have to count on Communists. 
[Applause.] 

You know that I am presiding here. You know that I know the game of 
communism aiul Communist tactics. You are trying to tell this convention that 
you h:n-e complied with the GEF. directives. Whom did you elect, after the 
committee had left Los Angeles, to represent the locals in the central body? 
Didn't you send Communists although the directives were specific that you 
sliould first consult the supervisor? And didn't you embarrass the international 



1410 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

union when the central body of Los Angeles would not seat them because they 
were known Communists, and these locals are not represented in the central 
body even today because they have not complied and they did not want to elect 
loyal international representatives to represent them in that body? [Applause.] 

You have complied when you have levied assessments for organization work 
without consulting with the supervisor, and he supported you because he is a good 
unionman. And then you have appointed three organizers that he told you not 
to appoint, and you have defied him. And then I had to send you a telegram 
that if you don't comply, you will be kicked out and only then did you comply. 
[Applause.] 

Do you comply in the same spirit when the Communists give you the orders? 
Have you got a different method for compliance when the Communists advise 
you? 

You may have chosen, you and your comrades, whether you are a member of 
the Communist Party or not, to serve two gods, to serve the Communist Party 
and to serve our union. No, you can serve only one god. Either you serve the 
Communist Party or you serve our union. [Applause.] 

Delegates, we will now proceed with the voting on the recommendation of the 
committee. 

Sister Fannie Borax. I believe our election and the delegates I have brought 
to this convention have proved that our stand and our ideology is that of the 
international union, and just because Spx-inger is at the convention does not mean 
that he expi'esses the opinion of the members of local 96. Local 96, with a great 
majority, has elected two delegates who are present at this convention. I must 
protest Brother Levy's remarks about the leadership of the joint board. The 
dress joint board has complied with the decisions of the committee and is follow- 
ing the line of the international. 

I hope that this clarified the issue as far as the dress joint board and the 
delegates of local 96 are concerned. Thank you. 

President Dubinsky. The report of the conmiittee does make this qualification 
about the dress joint board and also a qualification about local 84 and about 
local 97, the pressors' union. 

All those who favor the adoption of tlie committee's recommendation will please 
signify by a show of hands. All opposed to the committee's recommendation 
will please signify by a show of hands. The entire convention with the exception 
of three votes has approved the recommendation of the committee. 

I declare the recommendations adopted. I declare it as a mandate of this 
convention. The general executive board will carry it out, and I do hope that 
the membership of Los Angeles will cooperate fully with the general executive 
board. [Applause.] 

Vice President Levy, make it short, we are a half -hour overtime. 

Vice President Levy. Although I had decided not to participate in the discus- 
sion as far as Los Angeles is concerned, I ask now for a minute of indulgence on 
the part of the convention on a point of personal privilege just to say 2 or 3 words. 

I want to say, delegates, that I thank you for the support, and I want to say to 
the president that finally, after years of talk, after years of misery and suffer- 
ing, our convention has taken the stand that it should have taken a long time 
ago. And to me it is a happy event. It is the happiest day of my life because 
you have no idea what we had to go through all these years, myself, and all the 
other officers, all the other loyal members of our international in the sportswear 
union and the cloakmakers iniion. 

Thank heavens for the final decision you have made, and let's hope at the 
next convention we will never have the same situation as we had to face at this. 
[Applause.] 

Mr. ScHERER. May I ask: Do you know the names of any other 
persons, iMr. Ghidnick, wlio knew Joe Springer by the name of Joe 
Saul ? 

Mr. Gladxick. Well, I think Sid Hoff, the cartoonist, was a mem- 
ber of our unit. He would know. 

There was Steve Schweitzer, a member of that unit. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know where Steve Schweitzer is today? 

Mr. Gladnick. To the best of my knowledge, the last I ever seen 
of him, he owned a coffee place on 59th Street between 3d and 2d 
Avenues. 



COMl^IUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1411 

Mr. ScHERER. What was the first name of the first person you said 
knew Springer by the name of Saul ? 

:Mr. Gladxick. Sid Hoff, the cartoonist. 

Mr. Kearxey. Is that address in New York City ? 

Mr. Gladnick. His cartoons 

Mr. Kearney. No— the address you gave. 

Mr. Gladnick. Leggett Avenue? Yes; that is New York City- 
Bronx, N. Y. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you ... 

Mr. Glvdnick. Sid Hoff — I don't know his address, but he is a very 
well-known cartoonist. . 

Mr. Scherer. Now, could you give us the names of any other indi- 
viduals that knew Springer by the name of Saul? 

Mr. Gladnick. There was Steve Schweitzer. 

There was Naomi Workman. 

Mr. Scherer. Where is Naomi Workman, if you know? 

Mr. Gladnick. To the best of my knowledge, she lived in the Bronx. 
She used to be a telephone operator in the district New York office of 
the Communist Party in 1939. 

There is— this is many years ago. It's so hard to just pick people. 

Steve Schweitzer, Naomi Workman, and Sid Hoff— let's see; I'm 
trying to think 

Mr. Scherer. Well, could you at a later date 

Mr. Gladnick. If I think of any I knew, I will gladly send you the 

names.  , 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know other individuals who knew Springer 

as Saul? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes; I do, but I just can't recall their names. 

]Mr. Scherer. All right. 

What name did Springer use when he was in New York? 

Mr. Gladnick. Joe Saul, in the Young Communist League. 

Now, he might have worked in a shop under the name of Springer. 
He might have received his mail under the name of Springer, but as 
far as those within tlie Communist Party — they knew him only under 
the name of Joe Saul. 

Now, there may be people who knew him as Springer in New York. 
I don't know. 

]\Ir. Scherer. You will give to the committee or its staff at a later 
date the names of 

IVIr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. Scherer (continuing). Other individuals who knew Springer 
by the name of Saul 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right. 

Mr. Scherer (continuing). And know that he used that name here 
in New York ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes. 

That was his party — Young Communist League name, as an organ- 
izer of that unit on Leggett Avenue. 

JNIr. Scherer. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

IVIr. Kearney. Mv. IMoukler. 

^Ir. Moulder, No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Is counsel through with his questions? 



1412 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNZiG. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. He is through, and I want to call attention of the 
committee there will be a recess or adjournment for the day at 3 : 30. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I have a few questions I think are important. 
Why did the Young Communist League members — you have named, 
I think, five of them who went to the Brooklyn Navy Yard, taking 
apprentice training, and so forth — deliberately take training as 
mechanics and otherwise in order to infiltrate in the Brooklyn Navy 
Yard? What connection did that have with the program of the 
Young Communist League? 

Mr. Gi.ADNiCK. Well, as I mentioned in the very beginning, the 21 
points of admission of any national Communist Party into the Com- 
munist International — that was 1 of the points — 1 of the 21 points 
was they would carry on work within the armed — would carry on 
work for — to subvert and destroy the armed forces of their particular 
nation. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean that then it was a fixed policy by the Young 
Communist League in America at that time that they would destroy 
the Armed Forces of the United States ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Anyone who gets a copy of the 21 points of admis- 
sion to the Communist International can read it. It is there in black 
and white. 

Mr. Doyle. And your answer, then, is "Yes" to my question ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Absolutely so. 

Mr. Doyle. I. understood you to say something about this Mr. 
Wilson or Velson, it being understood he would become the Secretary 
of Defense — I think you used the language "if the Communists take 
over." 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, within the hearts and ranks of the Communist 
Party there is always the hope that one of these days there's going to 
be Soviet America ; and, of course, I was under that delusion, too, until 
I met the Russians. 

However, to the Russians, the American Communists were nothing 
but contemptible traitors that could be used, and are being used, very 
effectively. 

But in the hearts, I think, of every Young Communist at that time 
there was — they were looking toward the day — or toAvard the day of 
the revolution when this country will be run as a Soviet republic. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean, then, that, to your personal knowledge, it 
was talked of as a possibility — that, within the lifetime of Young 
Communists then in being, there would be a revolution in which the 
Communists would take over the control of the Government of the 
United States? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, 1930, 1931, and 1932, in Communist jargon, 
was called a period of wars and revolutions, and it was almost as 
though the coming of the Communist Messiah was just around the 
corner — pointing to the struggles in Germany, to the struggles in 
Europe and other countries — and it was a question of gradually the 
capitalist chain would be smashed and, of course, the last bastion of 
world capitalism, our own United States, will fall crumbling into 
the hands of the Communists. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, do you feel, as far as you now know^ there is any 
such feeling against the system of government and the American way 
of life by the Connnunist Party in America ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1413 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, I don't thiiilv they've changed their general 
program. They may have changed their immediate tactics, because 
the Communist Party of the United States, as I found out in Spain, 
working for the Russians, is nothing but an adjunct of Soviet Military 
Intelligence; and, of course, that's the line that they feed them — that 
you boys will become the Soviet leaders when we take over. 

Mr. Doyle. Does that mean, then, members of the American Com- 
munist Party owe their allegiance to the Soviet, to Soviet Russia, in 
preference to the United States of America, generally speaking? 

Mr. Gladnick. I will say this : The hard core of old-time Commu- 
nists — and I will say Mr. Velson is one of them — know definitely they 
are serving in the Soviet Red Army. There might be some that are 
still not completely drawn in, that actually might think they are 
radicals trying to create social revolution. 

However, after 1939 I doubt if anybody could be a fellow traveler 
and not know he was playing the Soviet tune. 

Of course, in 1939 the Communist movement — up until then, it was 
the strong so-called anti-Nazi movement. In 1939 Molotov went to 
Berlin and said nazism was a question of taste, and any man who could 
swallow that statement — that nazism or fascism was a question of 
taste — I think he'll do anything that Moscow wants him to do. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, then, I wish to direct the witness' atten- 
tion to two short provisions of Public Law 831, because it is our own 
legislative history by the United States Congress, by which members 
of this committee — no; I think we have two new members on the 
committee, but the rest of us were all Members of this Congress which 
enacted the Internal Security Act, and that act by the United States 
Congress declared in part : 

As a result of evidence adduced before various committees of the Senate and 
House of Representatives, tlie Congress finds hereby that there exists a world 
Communist movement which, in its origin, its development and present prac- 
tices, is a worldwide revolutionary movement, whose purpose is, by treachery, 
by deceit, by infiltration into other groups, government and otherwise, espionage, 
sabotage, terrorism, and any other means deemed necessary to establisli a Com- 
munist totalitarian dictatorship in the countries throughout the world through 
the medium of a worldwide Communist organization. 

Tiie direction and control of the world Communist movement is vested in and 
exercised by the Conuuunist dictatorship of a foreign country. 

Now, from your experience, was that declaration by the United 
States Congress, under Public Law 831, in the year 1950, true and 
correct ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Absolutely, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Your answer is what? 

Mr. Gladnick. Absolutely correct. 

Mr. Doyle. One further question, Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Gladnick. It's not an international conspiracy. It's a national 
conspiracy, run by the Russian National Communist Party. In other 
words, the word "international" leaves the word — impression that the 
American Communists might have some say in this setup. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, will you ])lease differentiate on that point for us? 

Mr. Gladnick. AVell, I will say this: That the American Commu- 
nist Party doesn't even have the privilege of sneezing when orders 
come from Moscow. Thej' just carry those orders out. If they have 
to sa}^ black is white, they say black is white. 



1414 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

In other words, it's a national conspiracy, a foreie^ conspiracy, 
against the United States, and these fellows are just Russian agents. 
They're not part of any international setup, except in the set point 
of view that they are the American agents of a Eussian setup, 

Mr. Moulder. They have no voice in international party affairs 
whatsoever ? 

Mr. Gladnick. None whatsoever, 

Robert Minor used to sit like an office boy outside of the Russian 
intelligence office, and the officer used to pencil — circle his name and 
say, "Keep that Yankee waiting there. It makes them better comrades 
when they don't run into us so easily." 

Mr, Doyle. Wliat year was that ? 

Mr. Gladnick. 1937. 

Mr. Doyle. Then, may I put this question this way: Wlien the 
American soldiers in Korea a few months ago told me in Korea, where 
I was for Congress, that the aggressive military movement in Korea 
was but part and parcel of the aggressive Soviet Communist attack 
on all free peoples of the world, were they telling me the truth, in your 
judgment? 

Mr. Gladnick. I'm glad to hear that the American GI's have such 
well-developed political concepts of world affairs. 

Mr. Doyle. Your answer, then, is "Yes" ? 

Mr. Gladnick. I think our GI's know more than a lot of our other 
people in this country. 

Mr. Doyle. Under our assignment, under Public Law 601, part of 
our assignment is to report back to the United States Congress ways 
and means in which that Congress should consider legislation dealing 
with subversive activities. 

Now, may I say that term "subversive" in that connection not only 
applies to the Communist Party, but to any subversive person or group 
or persons 

Mr, Gladnick. Well, sir — — 

Mr. Doyle. But in line of the fact this subcommittee is here 

Mr, Gladnick, Pardon me, sir. 

Mr, Doyle (continuing). Gathering information 

Mr. Gladnick, May I ask you a point of information ? 

Mr. DoYiJ2. Yes. 

Mr, Gladnick, You see, tlie Commimists try to identify themselves 
in this country with all people who have independent ideas. 

Now, I frankly consider myself a man of independence and not what 
you would call accepted ideas. 

This country was founded on radicalism. This country was founded 
on the fact that every man could think as he darn well pleases when he 
wants to. 

Mr. Doyle. That's right. 

Mr. Gladnick. Now, the Communist is not an independent thinker. 
He is not a radical. He will be a monarchist if the Communist line is 
monarchism. He will be a fellow Fascist when the line is fascism. He 
is not an independent or radical thinker, and I want that in the record, 
and I 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, he has no freedom of independent 
thinking? 

Mr. Gladnick. None whatsoever. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Doyle. But may I conclude my question, then? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1415 

I am glad you interrupted me. 

Have 3^ou any suggestion to make to tliis subcommittee or this com- 
mittee of the United States Congrass in the field of legislation? 

Have you any recommendation to make to us dealing with subversive 
activities in our country ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well 

Mr. Doyle. If you haven't gone into that field yet, may I invite you 
to think of it and give us at a later date 

Mr. Gladnick. I will be very glad 

Mr. Doyle. The benefits of your recommendations. 

Mr. Gladnick. I will be very glad to do that at a later date. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. 

Mr. KJEARNEY. Mr. Frazier. 

Mr. Frazier. Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank the witness for 
his very illuminating testimony here this afternoon. It has given 
the committee a great deal of insight into the activities of the Com- 
munists in this vicinity and others throughout the United States. 

Mr. Kearney. There is only one question, Mr. Gladnick. 

Mr. Gladnick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. You spoke during your very fine testimony here 
today — and what I would call the fantastic picture that you have 
painted — about a proposed infiltration of the National Guard. 

Now, I think I can sum that up 

Mr. GixiVDNiCK. It is not proposed, sir. It is an actual infiltration 
in the Nation Guard. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, an actual infiltration — and it was in the 
thirties, was it? 

Mr. Gladnick. That's right, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. And the sum and substance of that infiltration, as 
far as the word "infiltration" is concerned, is that it was a colossal 
failure, was it not? 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, I don't know if it was or if it was not. I do 
know this : These chaps who went into the Brooklyn Navy Yard rose 
rather high. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, wait a minute. There wasn't any National 
Guard in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. 

Mr. Gladnick. Well, they were National Guard men outside of the 
navy yard. 

Mr. Kearney. You mean National Guard men who worked 

Mr. Gladnick. National Guard men who worked 

Mr. Kearney (continuing). In the Brooklyn Navy Yard? 

Mr. Gladnick (continuing). Who worked in it. 

You see, you can never say there was a thorough failure. You 
remember after the World War when we had this we- want-to-go- 
home business, where our greatest Army this country had ever assem- 
bled disintegrated before our eyes with just a handful of Communists. 

I would say — not say there was a thorough failure. I think Velson 
did a master job for his masters. 

Mr. Kearney. In other words, it also leads me to another thought: 
You hear individuals speak that the number of Conununists in tlie 
country are relatively small. That doesn't enter into the picture at 
all, does it? 



1416 COIMI^IUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Gladnick. Not at all, sir. If you take a small group of Com- 
munists and give them a key situation in the United States, the Philip- 
pines, or any European country, they can do a great deal. 

Mr. Kearney. And just a few of them can come in and take over 
control of a labor union? 

Mr. Gladnick. No ; you see— I will disagree with you on this— m 
the labor movement, the working stiff is a peculiar guy. He can't 
follow the zigzags of the Communist Party. He might swallow their 
line to a point, but when the party does a flip-flop the American 
workingman can't turn around. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, isn't it true that even today, with the thorough 
housecleaning that the A. F. of L. and CIO have done in their Com- 
munist-controlled unions, there are some labor unions in the country 
today that are controlled? 

Mr. Gladnick. It's true, but I think a little more publicity on this 
fact — I doubt if those people who work in the factories, who are domi- 
nated by the Communists — if they knew the facts 

Mr. Kearney. In other words, you can't fool the average working- 
man ? 

Mr. Gladnick. Not the workingman. You might fool some of these 
pseudointellectuals, where a good majority of them were in the Com- 
munist Party— and I know now I will be attacked for attacking the 
intellectuals ; but they're supposed to have brains enough to withstand 
such attacks. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, I will say this to you : Thanks to the commit- 
tee, you have plenty of company. So, don't let it worry you. 

Any other questions ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. Well, I want to excuse the witness, with the great 
thanks of the committee for the fine manner in which you have testi- 
fied here today. 

Is there a further witness ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Irving Velson. 

Mr. Velson. I can't see with all these things in my eyes. Will you 
turn them off, please? 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Velson, I believe, is present to be sworn. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Velson, do you swear that the testimony you 
are about to give before this committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Velson. I do. 

Will you shut the lights off, please ? 

Mr. KuNZiG. I believe the witness is requesting that the lights 

Would you direct your request to the chairman, please? 

Mr. Velson. Get the lights off, please. 

Mr. Kearney. Will the lights disturb you in your testimony? 

Mr. Velson. They do. 

]SIr. Kearney. Well 

Mr. Velson. Turn them off. 

What do you say — get them off. 

Mr. Kearney. Now, if there are any directions to the cameramen, 
so that the witness and the Chair will start off even, I will issue the 
instructions and not you. 

Mr. KuNziG. I believe the witness is accompanied by counsel. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW YORK AREA 1417 

Would counsel please identify his name and office address for the 

record ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Samuel P. Shapiro, 76 Beaver Street, New York. 

TESTIMONY OF IRVING CHARLES VELSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, SAMUEL P. SHAPIRO 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give your full name for the record, please ? 

Mr. Velson. Irving Charles Velson. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present address ? 

Mr. Velson. 1798 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. KuNziG. 1798, did you say 

Mr. Velson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y. ? 

Mr. Velson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Chairman, would you please ask these gentlemen to pay at- 
tention to your orders? 

Mr. Kearney. All right. If the press is finished, we will proceed 
without any further picture taking. 

Mr. Velson. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Velson, would you give the committee, please, a 
summary of your educational background? 

Mr. Velson. Well, I went to Public School 156 in Brooklyn. I 
went to Thomas Jefferson High School. I went to Brooklyn Poly- 
technic Institute. 

About all I can think of. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wlien did you finally complete your educational train- 



ing? 



Mr. Velson. In- 



Mr. KuNziG. The date. 

Mr. Velson. Well, I don't remember exactly. I tliink it was in 
1929 — maybe 19;W. Pm not sure at the moment. 

Mr. KuxziG. What is your 

Mr. Velson. ^Vlien I was about 17. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present age, sir? 

Mr. Velson. I am 39. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, could you give the committee a resume of your 
employment background ? 

Mr. Velson. Since when? 

Mr. KuNZiG. Well, since the time you were first employed. 

Mr. Velson. I don't remember all the jobs I had. 

Mr. Chairman 

Mr. KEARNEY. Well, I have 

Mr. Velson. What is this ? 



Mr. Kearney. AVell, I have asked 

Mr. Velson. Wliat is this? 

^Ir. Kearney. I have asked the cameramen not to take any more 
pictures over the witness' objection, and that stands as an order of 
the Chair. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let's start with your employment from the time you 
finished your educational training. 

Mr. Velson. My first job was at the — as an electrician's helper. I 
think I got 20 cents an hour. 

Mr. KuNziG. Roughly, when was that? 



1418 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Velson. Around 1929 or 1930. I don't remember that detail, 
but either one of those 2 years. I think the contractor's name was 
Fishbein. 

Mr. KuNziG. And what was your next employment ? 

Mr. Velson. I worked in the textile — textile mill. I worked 12 
hours a night, 30 cents an hour, and had to sign a yellow-dog contract 
to hold the job. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, let's just talk about the type of work you did 
now. 

Did you work for a union at that time ? 

Mr. Velson. That was part of the job. The yellow-dog contract 
had to be signed ; otherwise you couldn't get the job for 30 cents an 
hour and 12 hours a night. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you work for a union at that time? 

Mr. Velson. It was a scab shop — an open shop. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you work for a union at that time ? 

Mr. Velson. I worked for Julius Kaiser Textile Co. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Well, then, give us the next employment, please. 

Mr. Velson. I don't — I don't know. I worked for — I don't know; 
I can't remember every single job I had in between. 

Mr. Kdnzig. Give us those you can remember, please. 

Mr. Velson. I think I worked for Harold Nathan Press. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where was that? 

Mr. Velson. New York City ; somewhere on the west side ; I don't 
remember. 

Mr. KuNziG. What type of work did you do there? 

Mr. Velson. I was a boy in the printshop. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right; what was the next that you can remember? 

Mr. Velson. Well, then I had some odd jobs on the docks, I guess, 
picking up nuts and bolts. 

Mr. KuNziG. When did you work on the docks? 

Mr. Velson. After the Harold Nathan job. 

Mr. KuNziG. Roughly the date, please. 

Mr. Velson. Maybe 1930 to 1931; somewheres around there. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right ; let's keep on from there. That is a long time 
ago. What other jobs have yon liad from then until 1953? 

Mr. Velson. I worked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wlien did you work in the Brooklyn Navv Yard? 

Mr. Velson. 1931 to 1939. 

Mr. KuNziG. From 1931 to 1939? 

Mr. Velson. Right. 

Mr. KuNziG. What type of work did you do in the Brooklyn Navy 
Yard? 

Mr. Velson. I was a shipfitter. 

Mr. KuNziG. Shipfitter. 

Was that for the entire time, or did you have any other type of 
work ? 

Mr. Velson. Well, I think I was a loftsman. I'm not sure if my 
classification was ever changed or not. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right; after 1939 where have you worked? 

Mr. Velson. Oh, I worked on several boiler jobs — construction jobs. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliere? 

Mr. Velson. I can't remember; around here. 

Mr. KuNziG. In New York, you mean ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1419 

Mr. Velson. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you in the armed services ? 
Mr. Velson. I was in the Navy from 1944 to 1946.; 
Mr. KuNziG. In what capacity? 
Mr. Velson. Shipfitter, second class. 

Mr. KuxziG. All right; after 1946, what type of work have you 
been doing? 

Mr. Velsox. I worked in the shipyards. 
Mr. KuNziG. Around New York? 
Mr. Velson. Around New York. 

I was business agent of — I was president of local 13 of the Ship- 
builders' Union, CIO, for about seven times ; but I worked at the same 
time. 

Mr. KuNziG. During what period of time was that? 
Mr. Velson. Oh, I was president on and off from 1941 until about 
1946, I think — or 1947, I think. I am not sure exactly of the exact 
dates. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were vou ever connected with the United Auto 
Workers, CIO, Local 259 ? 

Mr. Velson. I haven't got to that yet. 

Mr. Kunzig. All right ; take it in turn — keep to what was next after 
the one you just named. 

Mr. Velson. I worked in a couple of auto plants. 
Mr. Kunzig. Where were they? 

Mr. Velson. Oh, in New York, around the city ; then business agent 
of Local 259, United Automobile Workers. 
Mr. Kunzig. CIO? 
Mr. Velson. That's right. 
Mr. Kunzig. Wlien was that? 

(At this point Mr. Velson conferred with Mr. Shapiro.) 
Mr. Velson. I don't remember exactly when I commenced that job. 
Mr. Kunzig. What is your present job? 
Mr. Velson. I'm an ironworker. 
Mr. Kunzig. Connected where? 

Mr. Velson. Working in odd iron shops, wherever I can find work. 
Mr. Kunzig. No particular permanent employment at the moment? 
Mr. Velson. I've been fired lots of jobs. 

Mr. Kunzig. Where are you working at the moment, if you are 
working? 

Mr. Velson. I am working for Steel Fabricators in Long Island 
City. 

JVIr. Kunzig. Steel Fabricators in Long Island City. Do you have 
an address for that? 

Mr. Velson. I think it is 1202 Broadway. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you connected with any union activities at the 
present time? 

INIr. Velson. Member of carpenters' union. 
Mr. Kunzig. Are you an officer or official at the present time? 
Mr. Velson. No; just a member. 
Mr. Kunzig. Of any union at the present time? 
Mr. Velson. No. 

Mr. Kunzig. Now, your name, I believe, is Irving Velson ; is that 
correct ? 
Mr. Velson. Irvincj Charles Velson. 



1420 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Irving? 

Mr. Velson. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever gone under the name of Charles Wilson ? 

Mr. Velson. I decline to answer that question under article 5 of the 
Constitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean under the fifth amendment of the Consti- 
tution ? 

Mr. Velson. Fifth amendment. 

I stand corrected. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been known as Shavey — S-h-a-v-e-y ? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mr. Velson, were you present in the courtroom 
during the testimony of the last witness? 

Mr. Velson. Part of the time. 

Mr. Kunzig. Part of the time. 

Mr. Velson. Although I didn't hear most of what he said. I'm ex- 
tremely hard of hearing, and I was sitting way in the back. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever have anything to do with furnishing 
Communist newspapers to ships in connection with the printing of 
papers in the Finnish Federation Press at 50 East 13th Street, as was 
testified to by the last witness? 

Mr. Velson. I decline to answer that question. 

Who was the last witness? 

Mr. Kunzig. The last witness' name was Gladnick, in case you didn't 
hear — G-1-a-d-n-i-c-k. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know Mr. Gladnick ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you know Mr. Gladnick? 

Mr. Velson. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. Did he give the reason why he declines to answer? 

Mr. Kunzig. Will the reason always be the previous one given — 
that you refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Velson. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Is that understood? 

Mr. Shapiro. Yes ; the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. If he didn't know him, how can he decline? 

You asked who the last witness was. 

Mr. Kunzig. He meant — — 

Mr. Kearney. No ; he asked who the last witness was, and the next 
question was 

Mr. Velson. I was curious to know his name and occupation. 

Mr. Kearney. "Do you know him?" and he said, "I decline to 
answer." 

Mr. Kunzig, All right; let the record show — I think it is agreed 
now 

Mr. Shapiro. It will be the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Kunzig. The fifth amendment will be the reason for not 
answering? 

Mr. Shapiro. That's correct. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you in charge of the entire military apparatus* 
for the Young Communist League? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. Kunzig. What was your work with the Young Communist 
League ? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW YORK AREA 1421 

Mr. Kearney. Were you a member of the Young Communist 
League ? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you still a member of the Young Communist 
League ? 

Mr. Velson. Same answer, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you introduce the last witness to J. Peters in 
New York City here? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. You said you worked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. 
Were you ever a member of the National Guard ? 

Mr. Velson. I was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the New York National Guard ? 

Mr. Velson. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was that while you were connected with the Brooklyn 
Navy Yard? 

Mr. Velson. I really don't recall. I don't know offhand. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you attend a Young Communist League conven- 
tion, as testified by the last witness, sit behind a curtain, hear the en- 
tire proceedings and then call a special meeting of district organizers 
and discuss activity of infiltration within the National Guard and the 
United States Arniy by Young Communists ? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. Kearney. Is there anything funny about these questions, 
witness ? 

Mr. Velson. Sounds kind of fantastic. 

Mr. Clardy. It sure is. 

Mr. I^arney. Well, your answers are very fantastic, also. 

Any questions that might be asked you by counsel concerning 
an}' 

^Ir. Velson. I'm sorry, sir. I don't hear a word you say. 

]VIr. Kearney. I say : Any questions that might be asked you con- 
cerning any alleged Communist activities of yours you would decline 
to answer? 

Mr. Velson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNZiG. I have 1 or 2 more, sir. 

Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been .a member of the Communist 
Party? 

]Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

INIr. KuNziG. The last witness testified today and we heard a lot 
today about hard core — a small group of the top Commimists in 
America today; the hard core. Are you a member of the hard core 
of the Communist Party today in the United States, as was testified 
by the last witness? 

Mr. Velson. The answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I have just one more thing, sir, which, with 
the committee's indulgence, I should like to read for the record. 

The investigation of this committee has shown that in or about 
April of 1951, 18 American trade unionists traveled to Europe under 
passports issued, in most instances, for travel to France for business 
and pleasure. These individuals, after arriving in France, immedi- 



1422 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

ately started for the Soviet Union, where they participated in May 
Day celebrations held in that country. Upon return to the United 
States, the State Department, I believe, picked up the passports of 
some of these individuals. m 

Mr. ScpiERER. Good time to pick them up. ^ 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, in late June and early July, 10 more trade union- 
ists departed from the United States under American passports, claim- 
ing that they were going abroad to various countries in Western 
Europe as tourists, then went to the Soviet Union. 

Esther — E-s-t-h-e-r — Goldberg — G-o-l-d-b-e-r-g — and Clara Shavel- 
son — S-h-a-v-e-1-s-o-n — made arangements for the travel, and investi- 
gation shows funds for passage were handled by an organization 
known as the American Committee to Survey Trade Union Conditions 
in Europe. 

The American Committee to Survey Trade Union Conditions in 
Europe is located at 799 Broadway in New York. 

Are you, Mr. Velson, the secretary and apparently the only officer 
of that organization? 

Mr. Vei.son. The answer is the same ; but there's a document — the 
hearings of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 
82d Congress, 1st session — I'm sure you have it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is the answer you are not going to answer the ques- 
tion? Is that it? 

Mr. Velson. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions. The witness obviousl"'' 
will answer nothins:. 

Mr. Kearney. Any questions by the members of the committee ? 

Mr. Velson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Kearney. Just a minute. 

Mr. Velson. Excuse me. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, have you ever at any time engaged in 

Mr. Velson. My name, sir, is Mr. Velson — not witness. 

Mr. Clardy, Now, don't instruct me how to ask my questions, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. Let's not get into an argument with the witness. 

The committee member is perfectly within his rights by calling 
you witness. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever engaged in any subversive activities 
against this Nation ? 

Mr. Velson. My answer to that question is the same as all previous 
questions which have been asked me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you an agent of the Russian Government, either 
directly or indirectly? 

Mr. Velson. My answer is the same. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Frazier. 

Mr. Frazter. No questions. 

Mr. Kb \rney. The witness is excused, and the committee will recess 
until 10 tomorrow morning. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 20 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 10 a. m., Thursday, May 7, 1953. ) 



INDEX 



Individuals 

Fast 

Abrams, Mrs 1379 

Alizu^j, Bella 1370-1376 

Aniarigio, David 1390, 1391 

Ames (Communist Party name for Mrs. Abrams) 1379 

Antonini, Lui.ia 1399, 1400, 1403, 1407, 1408 

Ashe, Harold J 1348, 1357-1359, 1365 

Ashe, Mrs. Mildred 1359, 1360, 1363 

Bacus, Glenn O 1351 

Basrno, Morris 1401, 1403, 1407, 1408 

Bard, Phil 1391 

Bassett, W. J 1400 

Bates, Dean 1373 

Becker, Kae 1409 

Belayev, Colonel 1389 

Belfrage, Cedric 1361, 1362 

Berkeley, Martin 1360, 1361, 1369, 1374 

Berry, A. W 1379 

Biherman, Herbert 1361, 1362 

Bioff 1350 

Borax, Fannie 1410 

Boiidin, Leonard B 1343-1370 

Breslaw, Joseph 1399, 1400, 1403, 1407 

Bridfies, Harry 1361 

Browne 1350 

Chakin, George 1391, 1392 

Compe 1392 

Compensino ^ 1391 

Cohen, Robert 1392 

Curran, Joe 1383 

Daggett, Mrs. Charles 1374 

Di Maggio, Margaret 1401, 1403 

Dorner, Sarah 1401, 1409 

Drummond, Dave 1392 

Dnhinsky. David 1401, 1403, 1404, 1406, 1408-1410 

Ellis, Bill 1392 

Funn, Dorothy ^ 1370 

Gandall, Bill 1392 

Cannes, Betty 1379 

Gannett, Betty 1379 

Gates, John (Johnny) (see aZso Irving Regenstreif) 1389 

Gladnick, Robert 1377-1416 (testimony), 1420 

Gladstone, Charles 1401 

Glasgow 1406 

Goldberg, Esther 1422 

Gonzales, Valeriano 1391, 1392 

Gorchoff. George 1381, 1386, 1395, 1306 

Gordon, Hy 1379 

Gordon, Mrs. Alice 1379 

Gorney, Jay 1370-1376 (testimony) 

Gorney, Sandra 1374 

Green, Gil 1379 

Haas, Jack 1401 

1423 



1424 INDEX 

Pag* 

Haimel, Dr 1347 

Harford, Claire 1401 

Hines, Red 1385 

Hotr, Sid 1410, 1411 

Hunter 13'J2 

Isaacmau, Morris — 1401 

Jaolvson, Allan 1409 

Jackson, Ida 1409 

Jerome, V. J 1360, 1361 

Kendzer, Abe 1401 

Kolowski, Walter 1393 

Koltzova, Lisa 13-3 

Kupi)eruian, Louis 1392 

Laudis, Judge 1362, 1368 

Lattimore, Owen 1307 

Lawrence, Bill 1393 

Lawrence, Marc 1345, 1347, 1350, 1355, 1357, 1362, 1364, 1365, 1368, 1369 

Leedi, Jolin 1362, 1364 

Leeds, David 1391 

Lehman, ex-Governor , 1374 

Levine, Mary 1409 

Levy, Abe F 1403, 1407 

Levy, Louis 13S9, 1403, 1404, 1406, 140S-1410 

Little, John — 1393 

Malken, Dodo 13S6, 1395 

Markoff, I'rofessor__ 1387 

Mendel 1386 

Mindel, Professor 1387 

]Minor. Bob 1389 

Moman, Colonel ; — 1351 

Morse, Gene 1386 

Nagler, Isidore 1399, 1400, 1403. 1407 

Nelson, Steve 1393 

Orloff, Dr 1347 

Ornitz, Louis 1393 

Parks, Larry 1350 

Pegler, Mr 1350 

Peters. J 1386-1388, 1421 

Kackliff, Jenny 1409 

Ranford, Thomas 1400 

Raymond, Al 1381 

Raven, Robert 1393 

Regenstreif, Irving (sec also John Gates) 1389 

Richmond. Al 1.381 

Roosevelt, President 1351 

Sands, Tony 1394 

Santa Lucia, Anthony (Tony) 1394 

Saul, Joe (see also Joe Springer) 1383, 1384, 1396-1398, 1410, 1411 

Schneiderman, Lou 1385, 1386 

Schweitzer, Steve 1410, 1411 

Shane 1403, 1406 

Shapiro, Samuel P 1417-1422 

Shavelson, Clara 1422 

Shavey. ( See Charles Wilson ; Irving Charles Velson. ) 

Silbert, Mr 1406 

Skolnik, Yale 1394 

Soiidergaard, Gale 1,361, 1362 

Springer, Joe (see also Joe Saul) 1383, 1384, 1396-1398, 1406, 1408-1411 

Stander, Alice (see also Alice Twitchell) 1361, 1362 

Stander, J. (alias for Lionel Stander) 13.58,1359 

Stander, Lionel 1343-1370 (testimony) 

Stander, Lucy (formerly Mrs. Lionel Stander) 13.58-1.360 

Stember, Samuel 1394 

Stuart, Yale 1394 

Stulberg, Louis 1401 



INDEX 1425 

Page 

Taft, Anna 1394 

Temple, Shirley l^^** 

Townsend, Leo 1374 

Tuttle, Frank 1360, 1361 

Twitchell, Alice (formerly Mrs. Lionel Stander) 1361 

Velson, Irving Charles (Charley; Shavey) (see also Charles Wilson) 1385, 

1386, 1395, 1396, 1412, 1413, 1416, 1417-1422 (testimony) 

Wald, Nat 13S1 

Williamson, William 1378 

Wilson, Alice 13''^9 

Wilson, Charles (Charley; Shavey; see also Irving Charles Velson) 1380, 

1385, 1395, 1412, 1420 

Wood, Hon. John S 1346,1347 

Workman, Naomi 1411 

Young, Nat (Young Communist League for Nat Wald) 1381 

Toungdahl, Judge 1367, 1374 

Organizations 

American Committee To Survey Trade Union Conditions in Europe 1422 

American Federation of Labor 1382, 1400, 1407, 1409, 1416 

Baron D. Herb Mechanical Trade School 1395 

Brooklyn Navy Yard 1379, 1386, 1395, 1412, 1415, 1418, 1421 

Brooklyn Polytechnic Institute 1417 

Bureau of Labor Statistics 1407 

California State Labor Federation 1404 

Camp Unity 1394 

Citizens' Military Training Corps 1395, 1396, 1380, 1381 

Civilian Conservation Corps 1388 

Coat and Suit Manufacturers' Association, Los Angeles 1404, 1406 

Congress of Industrial Organizations 1416, 1419 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 1363, 1365, 1370 

GPU 1392 

International Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees 1350 

International Brigade ^ 1389, 1390, 1393 

International Ladies Garment Workers Union 1378, 1394, 1396, 1399-1410 

International Seamen's Union 1382,1383 

Lincoln Battalion 1392, 1394 

Los Angeles Central Labor Council 1399, 1400, 1404 

Los Angeles Dress Joint Board 1409 

Motion Picture Producers' Association 1350 

National Guard 1380, 1388, 1395, 1396. 1415. 1421 

National Labor Relations Board 1399, 1404, 1408 

National INIaritime Union 13S3 

Newspaper Guild 1361 

New York Public Library 1382 

Oil Field Industrial Workers' Union ^ 1382 

Packinghouse Workers' Industrial Union 1382 

Reconstruction Finance Corp 1378 

Red International Labor Union 1382 

Royal Canadian Air Force 1350,1351,1363,1365 

Screen Actors' Guild 1361 

Servicio Informacion Militar 1392 

Shipbuilders' Union, Local 13 1419 

Spanish Aid Committee 1391 

Steel Fabricators. Long Island City 1419 

Supreme Court (State), New York 1347 

Textile Workers' Union, CIO 1378 

Trade Union Unity League 1382 

Transport Workers' Union 1392 

United Auto Workers, CIO, Local 259 1419 

United States Air Force 1350,1351,1363,1.365 

United States Army 1387, 1.388, 1.396 

United States Coast Guard 1388 



1426 INDEX 

United States Navy 1387, 1419 

Unity House 1394 

University of Michigan 1372, 1375 

University of Nortli Carolina 1357 

Wholesale and Retail Workers Union 1394 

Workers' School 1386- 

Public ATioMS 

American Mercury 1388- 

Daily Worker 1378, 1388, 1403 

Finnish Federation Press 1386, 1420 

International Ladies' Garment Workers Union, Report and Record of the 

27th Convention 1399-1410' 

Los Angeles Citizens-News 1361 

Los Angeles Times 1398 

People's World 1381, 1408 

Sailors' Voice 1385, 138& 

Shipmates' Voice 1385 

Worker 1381 

Young Worker 1391 

o 




05018 316 7 



^- 



^ /^;?J? '/-/r^^ 




INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
NEW YORK CITY AREA-Part 4 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
to^c^.. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



MAY 7, 1953 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 

INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
33909 WASHINGTON : 1953 



^' 



Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

JUL14IS53 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Kepri4sentatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W. KEARNEY, Now Yorlt FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michiu;an CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, JE., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzig, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

LOUIS J. Russell, Chief Investigator 

THOMAS W. Beale. Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 



CONTENTS 



May 7, 1953 : 

Testimony of — Pan 

Lee S. Sabinson 1428. 

Zacliary Scliwartz 1442 

Robert Rossen ]4n4 

Index 1501 

m 



The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled. * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee ou Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

RuxE XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
• ***«*• 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to malie from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Suhpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



KULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

******* 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, following standing committees : 

• ••***• 

(q) Committees on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

* * * • * • • 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OP COMMITTEES 
***** • * 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcom- 
mittee, is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United 
States, (2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-Ameri- 
can propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin 
and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed i»y our Con- 
stitution, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
NEW YOEK CITY AREA— PART 4 



THURSDAY, MAY 7, 1953 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

New York, N. T. 

public hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 10: 10 a. m., in room 1105 of the United 
States courthouse, Foley Square, New York, N. Y., Hon. Kit Clardy 
presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde 
(chairman, appearance noted in transcript), Bernard W. Kearney 
(appearance noted in transcript). Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, 
Morgan M. Moulder (appearance noted in transcript), Clyde Doyle, 
and James B. Frazier, Jr. (appearance noted in transcript). 

Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Frank S. Tav- 
enner, Jr., counsel ; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research ; Leslie C. 
Scott, research analyst; W. Jackson Jones, Earl L. Fuoss, and George 
C. Williams, investigators; Dolores Anderson and Thelma Scearce, 
staff representatives ; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk. 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in order. Are you ready, Mr. 
Counsel ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Call your first Avitness. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Lee Sabinson. 

Mr. Sabinson. May I not have the television cameras on? 

Mr. Clardy. We will turn them off. . 

Mr. Sabinson. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you hold up your right hand? Do you solemnly 
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Be seated. [Addressing news photographers:] 

Take your pictures before he starts testifying, gentlemen. 

As soon as they have done that we will start the testimony. 

Let the record show the appointment of a subcommittee consisting 
of Mr. Scherer, Mr. Doyle, and myself. 

Are you ready, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 

1427 



1428 COJVDMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Witness, first I should ask whether the cameras 
should not be turned off. Does the light bother you at all, or will it 
bother you in your testimony ? 

Mr. Sabinson. A little. I have an occupational ailment — weak 
eyes. 

Mr. Clardy. You do. Mine are bothering me a little today. So, 
we will cooperate. 

Will you gentlemen turn off the lights, please. 

TESTIMONY OF LEE S. SABINSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

OSMUND K. FRANKEL 

Mr. KuNziG. Let the record show the witness is accompanied by the 
distinguished counsel, Mr. Osmund K. Frankel. 

Would you give your office address for the record, Mr. Frankel? 

Mr. Frankel. 120 Broadway, New York City. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Sabinson, would you give your name for the rec- 
ord, please? 

Mr. Sabinson. Lee S. Sabinson. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your 

Mr. Clardy. How do you spell that? 

Mr. Sabinson. S-a-b-i-n-s-o-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your address, please, sir? 

Mr. Sabinson. 743 Fifth Avenue. 

Mr. Kunztg. Would you give the committee a resume of your edu- 
cational background, sir? 

Mr. Sabinson. New York City public schools; New York City high 
schools; College of the City of New York. 

Mr. Clardy. You are a native New Yorker? 

Mr. Sabinson. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. When did you graduate from college? 

Mr. Sabinson. I didn't graduate from college. I didn't take my 
degree. I left 

Mr. KuNziG. What year did you leave, then ? 

Mr. Sabinson. 1930. 

Mr. KuNziG. And, now, would you give the committee a resume of 
your occupational background, including any theatrical work 
in which you may have been engaged? 

Mr. Sabinson. I was an errand boy during high school, I worked 
in a printshop. I made parchment out of paper in order to make 
lamp shades. I was a truckman's helper. I followed the harvest. 
T became an editor of a publishing house, went to work for picture 
companies in the editorial department, and then came into the theater 
professionally. 

Among the plays I produced — Finian's Rainbow, Home of the 
Brnve, Trio, Counter- Attack, Biggest Thief in Town. 

Mr. Clardy. You are a producer ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I am a producer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Sabinson, Martin Berkeley, in his testimony of 
September 19, 1951, identified you during the time that he knew you 
as a member of the Communist Party, and a Miss Ettinger ^ — E-t-t-i-n- 



» Eve Ettinger. 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1429 

g-e-r — in her testimony of September 10, 1951, identified you, stating 
that slie had known you as a member of the Communist Party. 

With that preface, may I ask you : Have you ever been at any time 
a member of the Communist Party of the United States of America? 

(At this point Mr. Sabinson conferred wth Mr. Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabinson. I am not now a member of the Communist Party, 
but I claim my j)rivilege under the lifth amendment of the Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. As to whether you have ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Sabinson. That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. And as to that question — as to whether you have ever 
been — you do not answer ? 

Mr. Sabinson. Eight. 

For the record, could you say at wdiat period these peojDle 
claimed 

Mr. KuNziG. It would be in the period of 1936, in that period of 
time, to 1943 — roughly in that period of time. 

Mr. Sabinson. I haven't seen Martin Berkeley since 1937. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, I didn't say Mr. Berkeley testified to that. We 
would go into it more deeply if you were going to answer the question, 
but obviously you are not going to answer the question — and that, I 
believe, covers that situation. 

Now, I am going to go into a few of the various Communist fronts 
here to which you may have lent your name and ask you if you had 
been connected in any way with these various organizations. 

Profijressive Citizens of America lists here the names of individuals 
who supported the National Citizens' Political Action Committee of 
the Independent Citizens Committee of the Arts, Sciences, and Pro- 
fessions. You are listed here, in a group of names, as Lee Sabinson, 
69-10 Yellowstone Boulevard, Forest Hills, Long Island. 

The Progressive Citizens of America has been cited by the Cali- 
fornia Committee on Un-American Activities in 1947, and again in 
1948. 

Are you the Lee Sabinson whose name is listed here ? 

Mr. Sabinson. As of what year was that listing made ? 

Mr. Clardy. Will you exhibit that to him. Counsel ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I will certainly be glad to turn it over to you. 

This is Sabinson exhibit No. 1 for identification. 

Mr. Clardy. Let it be so marked. 

(The photostatic copy of the document referred to, concerning the 
Progressive Citizens of America, was marked "Sabinson Exhibit 
No. 1" for identification.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mr. Sabinson 

Mr. Sabinson. This is a listing that applied in 1947. 

When was this organization listed as subversive? 

Mr. Kunzig. I just gave the date. 

Mr. Sabinson. I want to refresh my memory. 

Mr. Kunzig. 1947, and again in 1948. 

Of course, it was listed as such because of its activities prior to that 
time. 

^Ir. Sabinson. Yes. 

Well, prior to that time I was a member. 



33909— 53— pt. 4- 



1430 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Prior to the time it was listed. 

Mr. Sabinson. Prior to the time it was listed I was a member. 

Mr. KuNziG. And during that time it conducted activities for which 
it was listed. 

I now offer this in evidence, Mr. Chairman, as Sabinson Exhibit 
No. 1. 

Mr. Clardt. It will be received. 

(The photostatic copy of the document previously marked "Sabin- 
son Exhibit No. 1" for identification was received in evidence as 
"Sabinson Exhibit No. 1.") 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I have here, marked 

Mr. ScHEiiER. Pardon me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. ScHEREK. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel, before you finish with 
this. 

Mr. KuNziG. Certainly. 

Mr. ScHERER. "V^Hien did you withdraw from this organization, Mr. 
Sabinson ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I have no recollection of ever having become an active 
member through membership card ; nor do I have any recollection of 
having withdrawn. 

As that letter states, these are people who made contributions prior 
to 1947, and I did make contributions prior to 1947. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes ; it says here it is listing people, to quote it, "who 
should be approached for substantial contributions." 

Mr. Sabinson. Well, I had a hit play in 1947 called Finian's 
Kainbow. 

Mr. Clardy. So they tapped you ? 

Mr. Sabinson. Therefore, it is deemed possible I am available for 
sizable contributions. 

Mr. Schi:rer. Did you contribute up to 1947? 

Mr. Sabinson. I have no recollection of having contributed. 

Mr. Scherer. You wouldn't say you didn't contribute up to 1947? 

Mr. Sabinson. I wouldn't say that I didn't and I wouldn't say I did. 

Mr. Scherer. Then, you 

Mr. Sabinson. I have no recollection. 

Actually, in 1947, I moved from the address listed — 69-10. 

Mr. Clardy. I see. This was correct up until that time? 

Mr. Sabinson. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. And you did make a substantial contribution in the 
year mentioned? 

Mr. Sabinson. I don't think it was substantial ; I think possibly $10, 
if that's called substantial. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have here a document marked as "Sabinson Exhibit 
No. 2" for identification, which is an open letter to President Truman 
protesting the treatment of the Huks in the Philippines and defending 
the Huks, which has been pretty well known as a Communist group. 

There is a signature on this letter to President Truman of Lee 
Sabinson. 

May I give this to you and ask you to look at it and ask if you were 
the Lee Sabinson who signed that letter to the President? 

(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 



COjVCMUNIST activities est the new YORK AREA 1431 

Mr. Clardy. While he is looking at it, Mr. Reporter, have you noted 
the entry of Congressman Moulder and Congressman Frazier ? 

The REroRTER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CL.VRDY. They are added to the subcommittee at this moment. 

Mr. Sabinson. 1 have absolutely no recollection of that document, 
which is purported to have been signed in 1946. 

Mr. KuNziG. You don't know whether you signed it or not? 

Mr. Sabinson. No ; I have no recollection. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you lend your name freely to various things of 
this nature ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that your custom, without question to what the 
situation may have involved? 

(At this point Mr. Sabinson conferred with Mr. Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabinson. Whenever I found a cause that I deemed worthwhile, 
wherever it was in recognition of a struggle for decency and wherever 
such a problem was presented, I lent my name. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you considered the Huks in a struggle for 
decency ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I said I had no recollection 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. 

Mr. Sabinson (continuing). Of this particular thing; but I did 
lend my name frequently for various things, for which I have many 
awards, in my fight for tolerance and democracy. 

Mr. KuNziG. In the Washington Post of May 24, 1950, there is an 
advertisement protesting the decision of the Supreme Court in the 
case now known as the Hollywood Ten, which was a case involving 
a man appearing before this committee and refusing to testify. 

I hand you this exhibit, marked "Sabinson Exhibit No. 3" for iden- 
tification, and ask you whether your signature or your name, Lee 
Sabinson, producer, is on that. 

(At this point Mr. Sabinson conferred with Mr. Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabinson. I'm perfectly willing to answer this question. How- 
ever, since this is a committee delving into subversive activities, an 
open advertisement objecting to a Supreme Court decision is not, and 
I don't think 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, that is enough of that. That is not a response 
to any question. 

Mr. KuNZiG. I have here a photostatic copy of "Sabinson Exhibit 
No. 4," marked such for identification, which is from the Daily Worker, 
New York, Frida.v, March 14, 1947. It lists a Lee Sabinson, producer 
of Finian's Rainbow, as a main speaker under the auspices of the 
National Negro Congress. 

Are 3'ou the Lee Sabinson mentioned ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I was a speaker at the National Negro Congress. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear that. You were 

Mr. Sabinson. I was a speaker at the National Negro Congress. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, aside from having testimony adduced before 
these various hearings in New York, Mr. Chairman, from ]\Irs. Funn,^ 
the first day, as to activities of the National Negro Congress, it has 
been cited as subversive and Communist by Attorney General Tom 
Clark in 1947 and again in 1948. 



^ Dorothy K. Fumi. 



1432 CORflVrUNIST activities in the new YORK AREA 

Phillip Randolph, president of the congress since its inception in 
1936, refused to run again in April 1940, on the ground that it was 
"deliberately packed with Communists and Congress of Industrial 
Organizations members who were either Communists or sympathizers 
with Communists." 

It was also listed by the Special Committee on Un-American Ac- 
tivities in 1939 ; again in 1940, 1942, and 1944. 

It was listed as a Communist-dominated mass organization in the 
California Committee on Un-American Activities report in 1947. 

William Z. Foster, chairman of the Communist Party, U. S. A., 
stated that the role of his party was "one of central importance in the 
organization of the great united front National Negro Congress in 
Chicago, February 1936," as quoted in the Massachusetts House Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities report in 1938, 

Mr. Sabinson. May I 

Mr. Clardy. No ; there is no question pending. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have here a document marked "Sabinson Exhibit 
No. 5" for identification, which lists Lee Sabinson, producer of Finian's 
Kainbow, at a group meeting of the United Negro and Allied Veterans 
of America. 

Are you the Lee Sabinson mentioned there? 

I pass you exhibit No. 5 for identification. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, while he is doing that, we better have these 
others marked, because you did not have them marked, and I think 
I will pass them back and get them marked before we use them. 

Mr. KuNziG. They have all been marked, and I will put them all in 
evidence. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you mark with pencil the number you have on 
there ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Sabinson. I appeared there, along with Sugar Ray Robinson, 
to receive an award in the fight for democracy and tolerance. 

Mr. KuNziG. The United Negro and Allied Veterans of America 
was cited as subversive and among the affiliates and committees of the 
Communist Party by Attorney General Tom Clark in 1947. 

I have a photostatic copy of a page of the Daily Worker of Monday, 
February 16 

Mr. Frankel. TVHiat year ? 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Marked "Sabinson Exhibit No. 6" for 
identification. It states in a headline: "Eighty City Leaders Ask 
Council Seat Gerson; Issue Up Today." It lists Lee Sabinson, pro- 
ducer, as one of those who wanted to seat Simon W. Gerson to the city 
council seat made vacant by the death of Councilman Peter V. Cac- 
chione, Brooklyn Communist. 

Are you the Lee Sabinson listed in that article? 

Mr. Frankel. You didn't give the date, or the year. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you put the year in ? I'm sorry. 

Mr. Frankel. 1948. 

Mr. Sabinson. I most likely was the Lee Sabinson. Since the peo- 
ple elected Cacchione, I thought his successor most likely should be a 
Communist, since the people of New York City elected the man. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, may I ask you this: You said you "most 
likely" 



COMMUNIST ACTrV'ITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1433 

Mr. Sabinson. Yes; I- 



Mr. Clardy. Did you mean that to be an affirmation that you were 
the person so identihed ? 

Mr. Sabinsox. I have no recollection of this, but most likely this is 
true because I would today do the same thing. 

Mr. Clardy. In other words, you are in no position to say you 
were not? 

Mr. Sabinson. I am in no position to say I was not. 

Mr. ScHERER. You said today you would urge it ? 

Mr. Sabinsox. If the people elected a Communist, and that Com- 
munist died, then I think he should be replaced by a Communist. 

Mr. Clardy. Today ? 

Mr. Sabinson. Yes, if the people elected the man. 

That is the will of the American people, in this instance. 

Mr. KuNziG. So, if the will of the American people were to elect 
Communists and have a completely Communist government of the 
United States of America, that would be entirely satisfactory to you? 

Mr. Sabinson. Whatever the will of the American people is per- 
fectly satisfactory to me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Including a Communist government in New York, 
Washington, or anywhere? 

Mr. Sabixson. Whatever the will of the American people is per- 
fectly satisfactory with me, because the people are sovereign. 

Mr. KuxziG. I think you have made your position completely clear. 

Now, I have here a document, marked "Sabinson Exhibit No. 7" for 
identification, two pages from the Daily Worker of Wednesday, June 
8, 1949, in which there is an article headed ".Tailings Spur Rights 
Parley" and it concerns a meeting of the Civil Rights Congress of New 
York, and it lists your name or lists the name of Lee Sabinson, Broad- 
way producer, as one of those present at this group. 

I pass you exhibit 7 for identification and ask you if you were the 
Lee Sabinson and if you were part of that meeting. 

Mr. Sabinson. I never attended such a meeting. 

Mr. KuNziG. Your name was used improperly by the Daily 
Worker ? 

Mr. Sabinson. In this particular instance, yes. 

Mr. Clardy. May I see that ? 

JNIr. KuNziG. In spite of the fact j^ou have already stated you lent 
your name frequently, and can't remember all the times you have, you 
are definite at this particular time you didn't lend your name? 

Mr. Sabinson. That's right. 

(At this point Mr. Sabinson conferred with Mr. Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabinson. That's right. 

The question has to do with being present at the meeting. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are definite you were not present at the meeting? 

Mr. Sabinson. Definitely not ; I wasn't present. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right, I will ask you : Did you allow the Daily 
Worker to use your name as part of the group ? 

Mv. Sabinsox. I wasn't consulted, nor was I consulted when the 
Daily Worker attacked me for closing a play. 

Mr. Clardy. At any rate, you did not attend this particular meet- 
ing ? 

Mr. Sabinson. No ; I did not. 



1434 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. I have here a document marked "Sabinson Exhibit 
No. 8" for identification — call to the American Continental Congress 
for Peace, held in JNIexico City, September 5-September 10, 1949. 
Among those listed as United States sponsors is a Lee Sabinson. 

The address here is American Continental Congress for Peace, 
Suite 70, 49 West 44th Street, New York 18, N. Y. 

Are you the Lee Sabinson mentioned here, and did you lend your 
name to the American Continental Congress for Peace? 

Mr. Sabinson. I lent my name to every congress for peace, just as 
President Eisenhower became President on a peace platform. 

Mr. Clardy. You lent your name in this particular instance? 

Mr. Sabinson. Yes; I did. 

JMr. KuNzTG. Well, I doubt if President Eisenhower lent his name 
to ihe American Continental Congress for Peace, which has been cited 
as another phase in the Communist peace campaign by the Congres- 
sional Committee on Un-American Activities in 1951, in Washington, 
D. C. 

Mr. Sabinson. I do lend my name to every effort in favor of peace. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, there is no question. 

Mr. KuNziG. So, if any organization lists anything for peace, no 
matter what the background is, you will be free and glad to lend your 
name? 

Mr. Sabinson. For peace ; yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. For peace. 

Now, I have here a letterhead of the National Council of the Arts, 
Sciences, and Professions, marked "Sabinson Exhibit No. 9" for iden- 
tification, and this is a letter signed by a Henry Pratt Fairchild, and 
in the back of it Lee Sabinson of New York, N. Y., is listed. It is an 
item protesting certain handlings of atomic energy, and so forth. 

I hand this over to you and ask you if you were the Lee Sabinson 
•who lent his name to the National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and 
Professions. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, that is the outfit we had considerable discus- 
sion about on the first day of the hearings here when the Witness 
Shaw ^ was on the stand ? 

IMr. KuNziG. There has been great testimony about that — lengthy 
testimony. 

Mr. Sabinson. I have no recollection of having signed this. This, 
in fact, is the first time I have seen this. 

]Mr. Clardy. Perhaps Ave should ask vou : Had you ever heard of 
the outfit? 

Mr. Sabinson. National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Profes- 
sions ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. 

Mr. Sabinson. I was a member. 

Mr. Clardy. But you do not have any recollection of this partic- 
ular thing covered by 

Mr. Sabinson. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). This particular exhibit? 

Mr. KuNziG. When were you a member, sir? 

JMr. Sabinson. Prior to the date of that letter. 

J\Ir. KuNziG. When were you a member? 



^ Artie Shaw. 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1435 

Mr. Sabinson. When we were fighting for the election of President 
Roosevelt. 

Mr. KuNziG. When were you a member ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes ; answer as to the date. 

Mr. Sabinson. I should say prior to 1949. 

Mr. KuNziG. The National Council oi the Arts, Sciences, and Pro- 
fessions has been cited as a Communist front by the Congressional 
Committee on Un-American Activities in March of 1949, and again in 
1950. 

JNIr. Claedy. May I ask, Witness, when you said, "Prior to 1949" — 
you mean you became a member prior to that ? 

i>Ir. Sabinson. And maintained membership prior to, but not after. 

Mr. Clakdy. I see. You ceased to be a member some time m 1949 ? 

Mr. Sabinson. Prior to 1949. 

Mr. Clardy. Oh, prior to that? 

Mr. Sabinson. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. Could you give us the year ? Was it 1948? 

Mr. Sabinson. I'm not sure about it, but I know it was prior to 
1949. I can't because I didn't pay dues. This is my big problem. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, at any rate, you ceased being a member 

Mr. Sabinson. Yes, 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). At some time prior to the year 1949? 

Mr. Sabinson. Eight. 

Mr. Sciii:rkr. And you ceased to be a member by reason of the fact 
you discontinued paying dues ? 

Mr. Sabinson. And attending meetings. 

Mr. ScHERER. And attending meetings. 

Did you notify tlie council ? 

Mr. Sabinson. No; I notified nobody. 

Mr. ScHERER. You didn't notify the council? 

Mr. Sabinson. I felt a free agent, and not bound by any blood 
bounds. 

jMr. Clardy. Do you know whether or not your name may have ap- 
peared on the publications or letterheads ot that outfit after 1949? 

Mr. Sabinson. Well, if you look at the letterhead, I am not listed 
as a momb(>r of tlie board of directors and 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't limit it to that. I said in any way. 

Mr. Sabinson. I see now a letter, 1950, in which my name was sup- 
posed to appear. I know nothing about it. 

Mr. Clardy. You simply haven't notified them of any withdrawal; 
so, they went ahead and publislied your name? 

Mr. Sabinson. Tliat's right. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Right along those lines, Mr. Chairman, I have a paper 
here, a documont, marked ''Sabinson Exliibit No. 10'' for identifica- 
tion, wliich is a letter from the National Council of the Arts, Sciences, 
and Professions, urging the immediate abolishment of this very com- 
mittee. One of the names signing it in January 1949 is Lee Sabiuson. 

I hand you that document and ask 3^ou if you were the Lee Sabin- 
son that lent his name to that letter, sir. 

Mr. Sabinson. I have no recollection of this. 

Mr. SciiERER. You wouldn't say that you didn't, would 5'ou? 

Mr. Sabinson. No, because if this letter were given to me today I 
would sign it. 



1436 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. Yon would sign it? 

Mr. Sabinson. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I have here- 



Mr. ScHERER. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you ever a member of tlie board of directors 
of the National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions? 

Mr. Sabinson. I have been included as a board of director on 
many — I never attended meetings, 

Mr. ScHERER. That wasn't the qiTestion. 

Mr. Sabinson. I think I was a member of the board of directors at 
one time. 

Mr. ScHERER. You wouldn't sav you weren't a member? 

Mr, Sabinson. T wouldn't say I wasn't a member. I think I was. 

Mr. ScHERER. You just think you were? 

Mr. Sabinson, Yes ; that's riglit. 

Mr. ScHERER. You can't remember? 

Mr, Sabinson, I can't remember, 

]\Ir. KuNziG. T have two documents here, marked "Snbinson Ex- 
hibits Nos. 11 and 12" for identification, the heading of which is "Com- 
mittee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy." One is dated January 9, 
1947: the next is May 28, 1948. Listed as sponsors on each of these 
exh'b'ts is a Lee Sabinson. 

May I ask that you look at those exhibits and see if you were the Lee 
Sabinson ? 

( At this point Mr. Sabinson conferred with Mr, Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabinson. T have no recollection of these. 

Mr. Clardy. What do you mean by that — of the particular docu- 
ments? 

Mr. Sabinson. Of the particular documents and sponsoring the 
oraanization at all, or ever having attended a meeting of the organi- 
zation. 

Mr. Clardy, Or having let your name to it in any way whatever? 

Mr. Sabinson. I have no recollection of that. 

Mr. Clardy. You again are not in a position to say you did not, 
because of your past policv? 

Mr. Sabinson. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. You may have ? 

Mr. Sabinson. I mav have, but I have no recollection of it. 

Mr. KuNziG. The Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy 
has been cit^d as Communist by A<'torney Cenernl Tom Clark i" 1949 
find the California Committee on Un-American Activities in 1948 had 
this to say : 

The Communist Party line shifted after V-J Day and Communist fronts started 
pressure on the administration in reference to its foreign policy in Cliina in order 
to clear the way for Soviet expnn«ion. A new front in this field is the Com- 
mittee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNZTG. I shouhl like, at this time. Mr. Chairman, to offer in 
evidence Sabinson exhibit Nos. 2 through 12. 

Mr. Clardy. Tliey will be received, 

(The photostatic copy of an open letter to President Truman, 
relpp<5ed bv the Committop for a DonTocrati^^ Fnr Eastern Policy on 
October 7, 1946, was received in evidence as Sabinson exhibit No. 2.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1437 

(The photostatic copy of an advertisement entitled "The Right To 
Speak or the Right To Remain Silent," appearing in the May 24, 1950, 
issue of the Washington Post, was received in evidence as Sabinson 
exhibit No. 3.) 

(The photostatic excerpt from the March 14, 1947, issue of the 
Daily Worker was received in evidence as Sabinson exhibit No. 4.) 

(The photostatic copy of an excerpt from the May 24, 1947, issue 
of the Daily Worker was received in evidence as Sabinson exhibit 
No. 5.) 

(The photostatic copy of a page from the February 16, 1948, issue 
of the Daily Worker was received in evidence as Sabinson exliibit 
No. 6.) 

(The photostatic copy of 2 pages from the June 8, 1949, issue of 
the Daily Worker was received in evidence as Sabinson exhibit No. 7.) 

(The photostatic copy of the Call to the American Continental 
Congress for Peace, held September 5-10, 1949, was received in evi- 
dence as Sabinson exhibit No. 8.) 

(The photostatic copy of a letter dated July 28, 1950, from the 
National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions, signed by 
Henry Pratt Fairchild, was received in evidence as Sabinson exhibit 
No. 9.) 

(The photostatic copy of a letter dated January 1949, from the 
National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions was received 
in evidence as Sabinson exhibit No. 10. ) 

(The photostatic copy of a letter dated January 9, 1947, from the 
Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy, signed by Emily 
Sanchez, was received in evidence as Sabinson exhibit No, 11.) 

(The photostatic copy of a letter dated May 28, 1948, from the 
Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy was received in evi- 
dence as Sabinson exhibit No. 12.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I should like, finally, to ask once more of this 
witness, who obviously does not remember very well to Avhat type of 
groups he lent his name through these past years, and freely lent 
his name, whether he at any time has been a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. Sabinson. I will repeat: I stand on the privilege granted me 
under the fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you decline to answer? 

Mr. Sabinson. And decline to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Claud Y. Any questions, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. ScHEKER. Is my recollection correct, Mr. Sabinson, that you 
said you were not a member of the party today ? 

]\Ir. Sabinson. That is correct. 

Mr. SciiERER. Were you a member of the party yesterday? 

Mr. Sabinson. No; I was not. 

Mr. SciiERER. Were you a member of the party last year? 

(At this point Mr. Sabinson conferred with JStr. Frankel.) 

Mr. SviiiNSON. jMy attorney tells me I can go that far. I was not. 

Mr. SciiERER. AH right; were you a member of the party in 1951? 
(At this point Mr. Sal)inson conferred with Mr. Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabixsox. My attorney says I must stand on my constitutional 
privilege. 

33900— 53— pt. 4 3 



1438 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. SciiERER. That is all. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. No questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Doyle. 
 Mr. Doyle. Yes; I do, Mr. Chairman. 

May I say, Mr. Sabinson, while you liaven't said it, and while you 
don't need to do so, nevertheless, I think I recognize in your prelimi- 
nary statement the way you had to work yourself up in our American 
system. I want to compliment you in doing what you liave done to 
reach the pinnacle in your profession. 

Mr. Sabinson. Thank you. Now, if I can only maintain it. 

Mr. Doyi.e. Well, certainly this committee doesn't wish you less 
than the maintenance of your pinnacle in your arts and sciences ; but 
I am wondering, because you are not now a member of the Communist 
Party, regardless of whether you ever were, or when you withdrew, 
if you were at one time a member, in view of your letter that you 
signed to the 81st Congress advocating the abolishment of this com- 
mittee, if you were aware of a couple of things, in view of the fact 
you lent your name to so many letters and so many organizations^ 
without apparently having time or taking time to carefully inspect 
each one, I wonder if it couldn't well be tluit you were not also well 
enough informed Avhen you did sign this letter to the 81st Congress 
about why this committee was constituted. 

Now, I am making that preliminary statement because I am not 
going to try to ask you whether or not you are now^ a Communist or 
whether or not you ever were. I won't put you in that position again. 
You stood on your constitutional rights. 

We also recognize that as a constitutional right, and I wish to assure 
you that in my few questions that I will ask you I will not try to put 
you in a position to deliberately or otherwise have you violate your 
conscientious constitutional scruples, which we always admire and 
respect when they are given in good faith. 

( Kepi-esentative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). I am wondering if there isn't an area, as 
long as you are a non-Communist now, of helpfulness you can give this 
committee. 

That is one reason we are here, imder an express direction of your 
Congress, under Pulilic Law OOl, which was passed in 11)45, which 
charged us with investigating the extent and the character and the 
objects of subversive activities in this country, wliether originating 
in the United States or originating in foreign countries, and then it 
challenged us and assigned us to also investigate or report back to 
Congress any question with reference to subversive activities that 
wx)uld aid the United States Congress in any legislation. 

Were you familiar at all with this statute when you signed that 
letter — that this was a statutory charge to this committee, and has 
been since 19-15? 

Mr. Sabinson. I believe I was. 

Mr. DoYT.E. Well, may I ask you, then, this being an express 
direction of your United States Congress: Do I understand, then, 
that one reason you signed this letter advocating the abolishment 
of the committee in Id-id was because you felt that it wasn't wise or 



COJVUMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1439 

necessary to have such a committee investigating subversive activ- 
ities in the United States ? 

JNlr. Sabinson. Do you want my answer to that? 

Mr. DoYx,E. Yes. 

Mr. Sabinson. All right. I think this committee investigating 
subversive activities has succeeded in the economic strangulation oi 
so man}' men of good will. 

Mr. Clardy. Wait a minute, Witness. That wasn't the question. 

Mr. Sabinson. No; just a moment — 1 

Mr. Clu'vRdy. Will you please desist. 

Mr. Reporter, will you read the concluding part of that ques- 
tion? 

I want you to answer it directly or not at all._ Listen to it carefully. 
He asked you a specific question about a specific reason. 

Mr. Fkankel. No; no. 

Mr. CL.VRDY. Counsel will not be heard, as you know. 

Will you 

Mr. Frankel, Could you rej^eat the question, please ? 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). Kead the question, Mr. Reporter. 

(The reporter read the question as follows :) 

Do I imdeistand, then, that one reason yon signed this letter advocating the 
abolishment of the committee in 1949 was beoanse you felt that it wasn't wise or 
necessaiy to have such a committee investigating subversive activities in the 
United States? 

(At this point Mr. Salsinscm conferred with Mr. Frankel.) 

Mr. Sabinson. I believe there should be such a committee. 

Mr. D0YI.E. Well, now, were you also aware of the Internal Secur^ 
ity Act of 1050, under which statute, an act of your Congress, the 
Congress declared, as a result of evidence before a congressional com- 
mittee, there did exist a world Communist movement whicli, in its 
development and its practice, was a worldwide revolutionary move- 
ment? 

I will not read further from the text, but I am wondering if you 
also were familiar with that statute by your Congress. 

Mr. Sabinson. I am. 

Mr. Clardy, You are reading directly from the — — 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). Statute itself, are you not, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr, Doyle, Yes. 

Now, I lay that ground for just 2 or 3 questions, Mr. Chairman, 
because, in view of the fact tliat this gentleman has declared he is 
not a Connniniist, I take it for granted that if you feel there is a 
Communist conspiracy against the American form of government 
you will cooperate with this committee and help us in the area of 
subversive activities, if you are familiar with any of them. 

Mr, Sabinson, If I am familiar with any subversive activities, I 
will cooperate. 

And at this point may I tell you that in 86th Street in New York 
City on Friday night there was a Bundist meeting, at which Sen- 
ator McCarthy was "heiled," and again at this Friday there is going 
to be such a meeting. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, that is not germane. 

Mr. Sabinson. I am sorry. 



1440 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Clardy. There will be no laughter in this hearing room during 
the time I am chairman or you will all be expelled from the room — 
and I mean all. 

Now, if that is repeated once more, I shall ask the officers to open 
the door and put everybody out of the hearing room. 

Now, if you don't understand plain English, 1 will repeat it if it 
becomes necessary. 

Now, will you proceed ? 

Mr. Doyle. May I say, Mr. Sabinson, I am dead sure this commit- 
tee is interested in all forms of subversive activities against our form 
of government, wherever it exists, or by whatever person or by what- 
ever group, not only the Communist Party in America; but you made 
an observation with reference to an advertisement which I think I 
Avant to call to your attention and, if 1 am not in error, straighten out 
your thinking, if I can. 

You referred to the advertisement on May 24, 1950, in the AVashing- 
ton Post, and I wrote down as quickly as 1 could your exact language. 
You said, "However, that was a public advertisement and could not be 
subversive." 

I think that was about the way you worded it. 

Now^, as I understand the ordinary wording and meaning of the 
term subversive, it doesn't have to be secret. The purpose of a person 
can be even displayed in public. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

I just wanted to mention that, because I felt that perhaps you felt 
it was in a public ad and 

Mr. Sabinson. I think I would like to refer to Fowler's Dictionary 
of Eugbsh on the meaning of subversiveism. It is 

Mr. Clardy. That is not involved in the question at all. 

Mr. Sabinson. It is a semantic question. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, it is not called for in the answer you are about 
to give. 

Mr. Sabinson. I am not about to give an answer. I just want to 
know what the word subversive means, actually. 

JNIr. Clardy. If you do not know at this juncture 

Mr. Sabinson. I have always thought it meant 

Mr. Clardy. If you do not know at this juncture, it would be ubs- 
less to try to educate you in the few moments still available. 

Mr. Sabinson. But not pointless. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have a further question, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Sabinson. Pardon me, Mr. Doyle. May I ask a question. 

Mr. Clardy. No ; you may not. 

INIr. Doyle. I think I want to ask the witness this question concern- 
ing his answer on peace. 

(Representative Gordon H. Scherer left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). In auswer to our counsel, when he ask- 
ed, "No matter what the background of the organization is, you would 
lend your name to it for peace, would you?", you said, "Yes." 

I understood you to say tluit. 

Mr. Sabinson. You understood correctly, sir. 



COJMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1441 

Mr. Doyle. Well, do I understand by that, then, that even thouo;h 
it might develop, as it has developed, that the American Communist 
Party has, without question, promulgated programs allegedly for 
peace but which have been part of their conspiracy to support the 
Soviet Communist line in this country, nevertheless, you have and 
would continue to support such programs merely because they had 
the word "peace" on them or claimed to be campaigns for peace? 

Mr. Sabinson. At the moment we have a team of negotiators in 
Panmunjom. They are negotiating for peace, and I am for that team 
of negotiators. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, all of us are, aren't we? 

Mr. Sabinson. This is the important move for peace at this par- 
ticular moment. 

Mr. Doyle. Correct, and some of us have lost our children in uni- 
form in the interest of peace. 

Mr. Sabinson. Surely. 

Mr. Doyle. They have given more than you and I have given. 
They've given much more. 

- But that isn't quite my question. You see, when I was in Korea and 
the Far East a few months ago for the United States Congress, I asked 
over 300 men in uniform whether or not there was any connection be- 
tween the military aggression in Korea and the subversive conspiracy 
in the United States, in their judgment, and the answer, unanimously, 
was, "It's one and the same campaign" — one and the same campaign; 
the military aggression in Korea and the Communist conspiracy in 
this country — one and the same. 

Now, I didn't want to take advantage of you at all as a witness in. 
the chair, but I do feel, you not being a Communist now, according 
to your testimony under oath, are in a position to counteract and 
undo, I think, some of the manifest harm that has been done during 
previous days by the use of your distinguished name in the interest of 
peace movements which were not, in fact, peace movements but were 
part of the Conununist conspiracy; and I just want to urge you, as 
one American to another, to see if there isn't some pretty vigorous 
way that you can help overcome the use or the misuse of your dis- 
tinguished name in your own art and profession, in the interest of 
things that are not tainted with subversive activities, even though you 
may not have known it at the time. 

Mr. Moulder. Would the gentleman yield for just one question? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes ; I vield. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. sabinson, you said you are not now a member 
of the Communist Party. Would you state and give the reasons or 
explanation to the committee why you are not now a member and you 
were at one time a member, that is, as to why you disassociated or are 
no longer affiliated with the Communist Party? 

Mr. Sabinson. In order to maintain my privilege under the Con- 
stitution, under the fifth amendment of the Constitution, I cannot 
answer that question. 

J\rr. IMouLDEi;. That is all. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all. 

Thank you very much. 

Mr. Sabinson. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Frazier. 



1442 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr, Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have anything further 'i 

Mr. KuNziG, No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Is there any reason why this witness should not be 
excused and released from the subpena ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mv. Clardy. Call your next witness. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Zachary Schwartz. 

Mr. Clardy. The photographers will take their pictures before the 
witness starts testifying. 

(Representative Gordon H. Scherer returned to the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you stand and be sworn, Mr. Schwartz, please? 

Mr. Clardy. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I do. 

I wonder if we could turn those lights off, please. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes; but, first, let these gentlemen get their photo- 
graphs. 

Witness, as I understand, it is your request that the television lights 
be turned off? 

Mr. Schwartz. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you turn them off, gentlemen, please? 

TESTIMONY OF ZACHARY SCHWARTZ 

Mr. KuNziG. Let the record show that Mr. Zachary Schwartz is rep- 
resented, although not physically here today, personally, by Mr. Morris 
Ernst, distingTiished New York counsel. 

Mr. Ernst is unable to be here personally today, but in agreement 
with counsel, has, I understand, Mr. Schwartz, said you should go on 
alone 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Without his being- here. 

Mr. Schwartz. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Schwartz, would you state your full name and 
address for the record? 

Mr. Schwartz. Zachary Schwartz. My present address is 81 Pil- 
grim Avenue, Tnckahoe, N. Y. 

Mr. KuNziG. How old are you, Mr. Schwartz? 

Mr. Schwartz. I'm 40. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you give the committee a resume of your 
educational background ? 

Mr. Schwartz. The usual public school and high school. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where ? 

Mr. Schwartz. In Los Angeles, Calif. 

Mr. KuNZTG. When did you graduate from high school? 

Mr. Schwartz. I think it was 19i^>0-81. 

And then about 4 years of art school. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. 

Would you, then, give the committee a resume of j^our employment 
background, as much as you can remember, from the time you got out 
of art school ? 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1443 

Mr. ScHAVARTZ. AYell, I worked for a short while for Warner Bros. 
Cartoon Studio, and then from there I went to the Walt Disney Studios, 
and then 1 was there for about o years, or so. 

Then I worked for the Columbia Animated Studio in different 
screen jobs. 

Mr. Clakdy. Keep your voice a little higher. It is difficult to hear. 
. Mr. Schwartz. I worked for the Columbia Animated Studio, known 
as Screen Gem Studio, and after that I was part owner of a studio, 
Animated Cartoon Studio, that has since then been fairly famous as 
UPA, United Productions of America. 

After that — that was all in Hollywood — then, after that, I was a 
partner in a sin^ilar film-production company in New York known as 
Tempo Productions. 

Since then I have free-lanced as an artist and designer of television 
advertising, and I have worked for the Blow Co., advertising agency, 
and at present I am working for the Sherman & Marquette Advertising 
Agency in New York. 

Mr. KuxziG. What type of work do you do, sir? 

]Mr. Schwartz. I design television advertising — television commer- 
cials. 

]Mr. KuNziG. Now, I should like to ask you, Mr. Schwartz, and I do 
ask, whether at any time you have been a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; I was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell the committee when you became a 
member and the factors which caused you to become a member? 

Mr. Schwartz. I became a member of the Communist Party as near 
as I can recall, around 1940. 

The factors that I feel were most important in my becoming a 
member of this organization go far back in my life. 

I am a Jew and 1 was brought up in a community in Los Angeles 
which at that time was rather anti-Semitic in its attitudes. Certainly 
the section of the city I lived in many years 

Mr. Doyle. What part is that ? 

I am from Los Angeles. 



'to^ 



Mr. Schwartz. Well, that was out around Los Angeles High 
School. You remember there was an area there that was built up many 
years ago. 

This was when I was a child. My parents were rather well off, 
and they liked to move around a good deal. We never owned our own 
home and, so, we lived in new areas, where most often we were the only 
Jewish family in the section, and I 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Schwartz, excuse me. May I ask — I know it is 
difficult — that you keep your voice up and as loud as you can. It is so 
hard to hear in this room. 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; I will. 

jNIr. KuNziG. Thank you. 

Mr. Schwartz. So, each day I had to cope with the anti-Semitic 
attitudes of the kids who should have been my playmates; and, as we 
all know, for a child that's very destructive because, while adults can 
live with this kind of thing more easily, children must belong. They 
must feel themselves important and a necessary part of the community. 
It is a terribly destructive thing for a child to have thrown in his 
face, day after day, that he is a "kike" and a "sheenie." 



1444 COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Now, you gentlemen, I am sure, have never had to put up with 
anything like that. You are very fortunate, but it does exist. 

Mr. Clardy. It doesn't exist in the community where I live — and 
there are several of your faith who are my neighbors, and we have 
had no difficulty whatever, may I assure you. 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, that is wonderful. 

I don't think it exists to the extent today that it did exist at that time. 

Mr. Clardy. I think you are right. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we have got to admit it exists. 

Mr. Clardy. Some places. 

Mr. Schwartz. Oh, yes; it does. 

But I feel this original source of difficulty, in my own character 
development, my own personal problem with anti-Semitism, when I 
grew up was still there. The difficulty was still there and, to me, the 
Communist Party seemed to be the only organization putting up a — 
a fight against intolerance. 

Now, I know now that this was incorrect, but at that time that was 
my feeling about it. 

Mr. Clardy. You didn't detect the sham at that time ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No ; I did not. 

Shortly after getting in, however, I found something else that dis- 
turbed me greatly. 

Mr. Doyle. How old were you when you went in ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, that w^as 1940. So, it was — have to do some 
quick mathematics — I must have been about 

Mr. Scherer. Thirteen years off your age. 

Mr. Schwartz. That's right ; so, that was 27. 

And shortly after getting in I became aware of something that I 
had not realized before getting into the party, and that was the basic- 
ally antidemocratic quality of the party itself — in otlier words, a kind 
of intolerance that was another kind of intolerance that I had to face, 
and it disturbed me greatly. 

I can't say with certainty that I — that I got into the party as — at a 
definite period, or that I got out at a definite period. It was a kind 
of drifting in and out of this organization. 

When I realized what it stood for and I became so disgusted with 
the demand on the part of the Communist Party that all members 
accept and agree to whatever was handed down from above, without 
any real observation or consideration, using their own intellects, to 
discover whether the concepts were good or bad, I felt that this was 
an evil thing; and, ,yet, I was not strong enough to withdraw because 
the other forces were still at work in me. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Schwartz (continuing). I have, for the last couple of years — 
I have been in psychoanalysis in an effort to straighten myself out, 
and a lot of these things have come out in the course of this treat- 
ment — other psychological forces as well — family relationships and 
things of that kind, that I think are at the base of the need that so 
many people have to join such an organization. 

Mr. Clardy. May I tell you, sir, that we have had a number of 
people of your intellectual capacity before us, and their explanation 
dovetails very neatly. It sound as though you had almost been in 
contact with these individuals 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1445 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. Clardy { continuing). Many of whom I know you do not know 
at all. The same experience — the same drifting in; the same drifting 
out — they have explained just about as you have. 

Mr. SciiERER. For the same reasons. 

Mr. Cll:VRDy. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. And the same discovery — there is no independence of 
action, of liberty to think. If you are a member of the Communist 
Party, you have to take dictation from above. 

Mr. Schwartz. That is right; and that brought me face to face 
with a major conflict for me, because I am an artist. 

Mr. SciiERER. Could I interrupt 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER (continuing). At this point? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. In addition to this dictation from above, which we 
have been talking about, you have also found, like manj'^ of the other 
witnesses of your faith, who have been before us, that actually the 
Communist Party today is as anti-Semitic 

Mr. Schwartz. Definitely. 

Mr. Scherer (continuing). Almost as anti-Semitic as Hitler ever 
was? 

Mr. Schwartz. Oh, yes; definitely. 

Mr. Scherer. You have come to that conclusion ? 

Mr. Schwartz. There was — oh, there was something I had to — I 
had to see and fight against, and finally it was very important to me 
in getting out of the party — and that was : There was a latent anti- 
Semitism, even at that time, in the attitude of communism toward — 
toward — toward the Jewish movement in Israel^-that there was very 
strong 

Mr. Scherer. That has become apparent recently because the Rus- 
sians are backing the Arabs. 

Mr. Schwartz. Oh, much more apparent than it ever was. 

Mr. Scherer. INIiich more apparent? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. They are taking an anti-Semitic attitude in order to 
curry favor, ])erhaps with the Arabs 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer (continuing). For the^Arabian oil? 

Mr. Schwartz. I don't think there's any question about it. 

Mr. Scherer. You think that is right? 

Mr. Schwartz. I don't think tliere is any question about the use of 
anti-Semitism by Soviet policymakers as a tool — — 

Mr. Clarpy. You heard 

Mr. Schwartz (continuing). For their own policies. 

Mr. Clardy. You lieai-d the abortive effort a few minutes ago to 
drag the German bund into this hearing. Would you not agree today 
that they have been topped by the anti-Semitism of communism? 

Mr. Schwartz. It's a little liard to top the Nazis. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I agree with j'ou. 

Mr. Schwartz. There is a 

Mr. Clardy. I ajrree. 



•te' 



S3909— 53— pt. 4 4 



1446 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Schwartz, It may come to that, but whether that is up to the 
present time, I can't say. 

Mr. ScHERER. They are both equally bad in an American's eyes, 
aren't they ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes ; I think 

Mr. ScHERER. I mean both 

Mr. Schwartz. I think the objective is equally bad. 

Mr. Clardy. They should be condemned by all right-thinking Amer- 
icans, shouldn't they ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Definitely ; definitely, because I think the objective 
is an immoral one. 

Mr. Ci^ardy. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Just along those lines, one question that appeals to 
me from my own past experience : If you were one of the millions of 
people who had been in a Nazi concentration camp or one of the 
millions today in a Russian concentration camp, would there be much 
difference as to which one you were in ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. KuNziG. You don't think so ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Obviously not. 

Mr. Clardy. Or a Korean prisoner of war who has not yet been 
returned ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No ; obviously the difference in degi'ee between each 
imprisonment is something one cannot measure. 

Mr. Kdnzig. Mr. Schwartz, as an artist, outstanding in the field in 
which you are working, I should like to ask you this question : Could 
you give the committee some estimate of your oAvn viewpoint of Com- 
munist influence, first, on painting and, second, what influence com- 
munism has on motion pictures ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I think that in — in terms of painting. Communist 
policy or dogma has had relatively little importance in this country, 
primarily, I think, because painting is not a terribly important 
medium in our day, such as it was in earlier days. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean it doesn't seem to be ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No; it doesn't seem to be. That is, there are very 
few people who are very much interested in painting as an art. I 
mean an average layman 

Mr. Clardy. I liave a brother who is an artist. So, I am bound to 
defend. 

Mr. Schwartz. Paintei*s are interested, but it is a pretty close com- 
munity. 

However, one can see the effects of Communist domination and Com- 
munist insistence of thinking along a certain groove or line in looking 
at a Russian painting, which I don't think any painter of any stand- 
ard would deny is miserable, and has been for as long as I can remem- 
ber, 

Mr. Clardy. I haven't been exposed to any of that yet. 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, there isn't an awful lot of it you can see. 
There are some books published in which there are plates showing cul- 
ture and painting, and it's very dull stuff'; but, to my way of thinking, 
this is relatively unimportant because its area of influence is very 
small. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1447 

I think that in motion pictures which, in my opinion, is the modern 
mass art — the medium through which the greatest number of peo- 
ple can be reached — and while I have not seen in American pictures 
any Communist inffuence — that is, the Communist line shown in mo- 
tion pictures in American theaters — still following the — following the 
logical direction that one must, taken over a long enough period of 
time, or established strongly as a governmental precept, these Com- 
munist policies, I feel, can — this philosophy can only bring sterility; 
and I think we can see that in Communist Kussia, because the early 
motion pictures together, with closeups and long shots, and things of 
capable and analytical men and there are books, translated books, of 
writing by people like Podufkin and Eisenstein, and particularly 
Podufkin, who was one of the earliest writers on the subject, who had 
'learned from D, W. Griffith and pays this compliment to an American 
director, an early director, who really evolved the methods of putting 
motion pictures together, with closeup and long shots, and things of 
that kind. 

So, though they may claim to have invented baseball, they would 
have trouble substantiating that kind of claim in motion pictures be- 
cause their own writers have indicated in early publications this was 
not true. 

But over the years, after the period in which these very talented and 
creative men, with a certain degree of freedom in their work, were 
able to produce great films, films that were recognized as great all 
over the world, they're set in a period of — well, the only thing you 
call it is sterility ; and today American — Russian motion pictures are 
far behind American, Prench, English motion pictures in tenns of 
what they have to say and how they say it. 

Mr. Clardy. That is because of the compulsion to conform? 

Mr. Schwartz. That is it. 

JVIr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Schwartz. In our own country and in our own culture we 
mustn't underestimate, in my opinion, the importance of the indi- 
viduality of each person ; the creativeness that exists in each individual. 
That is "the source of whatever greatness we have — whether it be in- 
dustry, science, art; it doesn't matter. Each individual has some- 
thing" in my opinion, to contribute, and when these contributions are 
forced into a given rut it — it must result in a killing of that creative 
ability, or certainly the loss of it for everyone else. 

JSlr. Clardy. Which kills all progress, of course? 

Mr. Schwartz. It kills all progress. It must result in that. 

Mr. Clardy. The secret of the American system is largely to be 
found in the antithesis of what you are saying? 

Mr. Schwartz. That's right. It's to be found in the ap^ireciation 
of the individual and his possible contribution to the welfare of the 
whole. 

Mr. KuNZTG. Mr. Schwartz, what years were you in the party '? 

Mr. Schwartz. I was in the ]:)arty approximately — between 11)40 — 
let's see — I have some notes on that here. 

Mr. KuNziG. Refresh your recollection. That is perfectly all right, 

Mr. Schwartz. 1940 to 1943 — approximately. 

(Rq")resentative Morgan M. Moulder reentered the hearing room at 
this point.) 



1448 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNziG, Now, I want to ask you where the meetings were held 
that you attended ? 

Mr. Schwartz. The meetings that I recall were held at the home 
of an Edward Nolan. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that? 

Mr. Schwartz. N-o-l-a-n, I believe, and 

Mr. KuNziG. In what city ? 

Mr. Schwartz. In Los Angeles. 

Mr. KuNziG. And 

Mr. Schwartz. And they were small groups of people. Most of 
the people I don't even recall because over this period I don't imagine 
that, at the outside, I attended more than 12 meetings. I would go 
and become irritated by the indoctrination and demands of the party^ 
and then I would leave ; and then they would put the heat on me. I'd 
come back again, pay dues, when demanded. It never amounted to 
much. 

But it was an ineffectual group. I don't think there was any more — 
anything more there than a lot of talk. As far as any sabotage, or 
anything of that kind, there was never a smell of anything like that. 

Mr. KuNziG. At least you didn't know of anything of that nature? 

Mr. Schwartz. Nothing of that kind I was ever aware of. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Edward Biberman 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. B-i-b-e-r-m-a-n? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; I believe that is how he spells it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, I concluded he was because one of the last 
meetings I attended — not a meeting — it was a lecture on art, given 
by Biberman, and a long period of time liad elapsed between the 
previous meeting — oh, I would say 2 years, anyway, between the 
previous meeting and this art lecture; but he was the lecturer, and 
the subject of the lecture, as closely as I can remember, was Marxism 
and art. 

Mr. KuNziG. Marxism and art? 

Mr. Schwartz. And art; yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, was this meeting you are talking about, where 
this lecture on art was given, the last meeting you attended? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes ; it was. I was completely disgusted with the 
whole thing at that point. I had a 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain 

Mr. Schwartz (continuing). Feeling of disgust. 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Why the lecture disgusted you, and 
what you did at the lecture? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, the lecture disgusted me because it brought 
me face to face with a thing I had — something I had known for a 
long time, but never quite come to loggerheads with before, and that 
was the demand that I accept ideas that I felt were utterly ridiculous, 
and that I paint that way or draw that way or think that way as an 
artist was impossible; and I got into a discussion with the lecturer 
around the whole idea of what he called the utilitarian aspects of 
art, and my argument with him was that art in any form — whether 
it be painting, writing, music — anything creative — anything of a ere- 



COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1449 

ative effort is a tiling of the spirit and you can't control it or liandle 
it the way you would a fryino- pan and the manufacture of a piece 
of utilitarian material of that kind. 

So, we had quite a discussion about that, and I got rather hot under 
the collar and I left ; and I have never been in any meeting, any Com- 
munist meeting, or anything of that kind, since. 

Mr. KuNziG. Since that time? 

Mr. Schwartz, That's right. 

Mr. KuNziG. And what year was that? 

Mr. ScHAVARTz. That was, I believe, 1945. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, this Ed Biberman, whom we just mentioned — 
did you know him to be the man who did the murals on the post office 
in. Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No; I did not. I had never even seen those murals. 
I knew him to be a teacher of art in Los Angeles, and our relation- 
ship was — well, there was no relationship actually until the day he 
come over to ask me if I would attend this lecture. 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean in San Francisco, don't you — the murals 
at the post office in San Francisco ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I believe the investigation showed Los Angeles. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, there are some in both places, and there is quite 
a to-do about the one in San Francisco. 

I didn't know whether you were referring to that one or not. 

Mr. Fuoss. The investigator in Los Angeles said it was in Los 
Angeles. 

]VIr. Clardy. Well, it is unimportant. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Bernyce Fleury as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. F-1-e-u-r-y? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; her maiden name was Bernyce Polifka. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was that name? 

Mr. Schwartz. Polifka. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, would you spell it, please? 

Mr. Schwartz. P-o-l-i-f-k-a, I believe. 

IMr. KuNziG. Did she attend the meetings you attended? 

Mr. Schwartz. Some of them ; yes. 

ISfr. KuNziG. Now, you will recall ..the Hollywood Writers' Mo- 
bilization. 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. The committee of the Writers Congress coming forth 
from that Hollywood Writers' Mobilization lists Zachary Schwartz 
as a member of the general committee and Zachary Schwartz as head 
of the animated cartoon section, clerk of that section. 

Are you that Zachary Schwartz? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; I am. 

Mr. KuxziG. You were part of that group ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes ; I was. 

I was — I think I can say this without being unduly egotistical — 
I was a leading member of my craft in the animated cartoon business, 
and it was natural I accept the chairmansliip of this seminar that was 
held on the subject. 



1450 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. KuNZiG. Now, this Hollywood Writers' Mobilization, for the 
record, was cited as subversive and Communist by Attorney General 
Tom Clark in 1947, again in 1948, and it was cited as a Communist- 
front organization whose ti'ue purpose was the creation of a clearing- 
house for Communist propaganda by the California Committee on 
Un-American Activities as early as 1945. 

I would like to ask one more question concerning a statement pre- 
viously made by this witness. 

When you came to New York in 1946, Mr. Schwartz, was an effort 
made to involve you again in the Communist Party here? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes ; there w\as one effort. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain how that was done ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, it was sort of cloak-and-daggerish. 

(Kepresentative James B. Frazier, Jr., left the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. Schwartz. I received a telephone call, and the party calling 
me did not give a name but said my name had been passed on to them 
from California, and from the club. Well, I guessed what they were 
talking about, because I didn't belong to any clubs out there, and I 
told them on the phone, whoever it was, that I was not interested and 
not to bother me with the thing — and that was that. 1 had nothing 
to do with them. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. KuNziG. As an example and a fine illustration of how names 
stay on things unless specifically taken off, the Hollywood Quarterly 
of April 1947, No. 3, volume 2, 1947, you will note, lists a Zachary 
Schwartz as a member of the advisory committee. 

Are you that Zachary Schwartz? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, I am Zachary Schwartz, but I was in New 
York at the time ; and certainly I didn't even know my name was on 
that publication. 

It must have been held over from a time that I was a chairman of 
that seminar. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you didn't give your name in 1947? 

Mr. Schwartz. No: definitely not. 

Mr. KuNziG. This Hollywood Quarterly is a publication cited as a 
Communist project S):)onsored jointly by the Communist front, the 
Hollywood Writers' Mobilization, and the University of California at 
Los Angeles. The first issue appeared in October 1945. 

It was so cited by the California Committee on Un-iVmerican Activ- 
ities in their 1948 report. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you acquainted with any other Zachary Schwartz? 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. DoYi.E. In your line or profession ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. Doyle. In your experience ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 
 Mr. Doyle. In Hollywood or Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Doyle, do you have some ? 

Mr. Doyle. I do have. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1451 

I think it is very important that we ask this witness two or three 
questions. 

Mr, Clardy. Will it take very long? 

As you know, we have got to adjourn at 11 : 30 because the chairman 
is being honored by a luncheon of the American Jewish League 
Against Communism, Chairman Velde, so there will be no confusion — 
and we are all invited to attend. 

And I had better ask counsel a question about this. 

You have another witness ready to take the stand, as I understand? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir. Mr. Tavenner has another witness ready to 
take the stand — I believe quite an important witness. 

Mr. Doyle. This afternoon 'i 

Mr. KuNziG. He will be ready immediately. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I am trying to discover whether Mr. Doyle may 
finish before 11 : 30 so we may make this hmcheon honoring Chairman 
Velde, or whether we should desist and come back after lunch and 
start with this other witness. 

What is your preference ? 

Mr. Doyle. If the chairman will let me begin, I will help you get 
out of liere by 11 : 30. 

Mr. Clardy. You think you can ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. All right; we will do it whichever way we can do it 
best. 

Mr. Doyle. Under Public Law 601 this committee is assigned, Mr. 
Schwartz, as you know, to report back to Congress any recommenda- 
tions we may have based on our nation-wide hearings and investigation 
in subversive activities, in the field of legislation. 

Have you any suggestions to this committee ? 

Have you given it thought? 

Making such a study and making such reports back to Congress is 
the paramount justification of this committee, I think. 

Mr. Schwartz (continuing). No; offhand, I don't. 

Mr. Doyle. All right, if you haven't thought of that, will you give 
it some thought, please 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). And transmit your recommendations to 
us 

Mr, Schwartz. Certainly, 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). Because we really want them? 

Mr. Schwartz. Certainly. 

IMr. Doyle. Now. l)ecause you have identified yourself as a Jew — 
if you hadn't, I wouldn't have done it, certainly, in this question; but 
because you have and, therefore, have put yourself in the so-called 
minority groups — although, to me, of course, there is no minority 
group in America; it is all one — but, you having done so, for the pur- 
poses of your explanation, what is your thought ; have you any helpful 
thinking to this committee as to why allegedly and maybe practically 
there are so many members of minority groups who go into commu- 
nism ? Why do they do it ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, I think 

Mr. Doyle. Now, in asking you this question, sir, I believe it is 
basic in our study ; but I am not picking on any minority or particular 
group. 



1452 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Schwartz. I understand that. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't mean inferentially so, but it just seems so. Why 
do they do it ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, I think they are affected by a sense of — of 
not belonging as an important and desired part of the community. 

I think that is terribly important. 

There are all kinds of forces at work in all of us — conscious and 
unconscious forces. 

Mr. Doyle. What makes 

Mr. Schwartz. A lot 

Mr. DtiYLE. What makes them have that sense of not belona-ino;? 

Mr. Schwartz. I think 

Mr. Doyle. Are they born with it? 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. Doyle. What is it? 

Mr. Schwartz. I think it is a thing that exists in our country to- 
day, Vvliich is a kind of inheritance that we are all hoping to eliminate 
with time — that all of us do not accept upon equal terms other groups, 
social or religious ; and, of course, until this does come about there will 
always be the possibility of appealing to people who feel that they 
are shut out, that they are not wanted, that they are not important 
and necessary members of the comnnmity, and then they look for an 
area in which they can be important, which they can hope to change 
things, so they are closer to their own heart's desire; but, of course, 
they leave — they become, then, an easy kind of mark for any success- 
ful group, any grouj) that can successfully convince them. 

Mr. Clardy. Any demagogic appeal, in other words. 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes — that can convince them that lendino; their aid 
and support to this group or individual can gain this end. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me ask you this question — and I have 2 minutes 
left. 

Mr. Schwartz. I will make it quick. 

Mr. Doyle. What, then, as a counter program, if any. in your judg- 
ment, is there or shoidd there be to try to counter the false premise? 

Mr. Schwartz. I think that we must counter it in the organizations, 
in the established, honored organizations and institutions, of our coun- 
try — the churches, the clubs, the cultural clubs — those organizations 
that have as their objective a constructive end. 

In those organizations children can be talked to, can be taught to 
accept each other upon their own face values, as individuals, worth- 
while individuals. 

Mr. Clardy. We must have tolerance taught in an effective way? 

Mr. Schwartz. That's right, and it isn't intolerance, you know. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words 

Mr. Schwartz. It is utter and complete acceptance of one human 
being by another. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, there must be a positive premise? 

Mr. Schwartz. That's right, and 

Mr. Doyle. Rather than 

Mr. Schwartz (continuing). An affirmation. 

Mr. DoYi^E. Rather than just a tolerant or negative basis? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1453 

Mr. Doyle. Now, one other question : Have your rights been in- 
fringed upon before this committee today '^ 

Mr. Schwartz. No ; I don't think so. 

Mr. Doyle. Don't you resent being subpenaed and coming here be- 
fore this committee? 

Mr. Schwartz. No; I think I may have done some good. 

Mr. Doyle. I have never met you in my life that I know of. 

Mr. Schwartz. No. 

Mr. Doyle. So I am taking a chance as to what your answers are. 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Why dichi't you plead your constitutional privileges 
and rights ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Well, I had repudiated everything that the Com- 
munist Pai'ty stood for long ago. 

JNIr. Clardy. You had purged your soul of all of those sort of things, 
hadn't 3'ou ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes; I had. 

Mr. Doyle. I know, but you put yourself in the minds of some 
people, even some who are here in this room today — I see a few of them 
still here again today — who will call you a stoolpigeon and an in- 
former. 

Mr, Schwartz. Well, that's their problem and not mine. 

Mr. Doyle. That's their problem? 

Mr. Schwartz. Yes ; I believe that to be true. 

I maintain ni}' right to my own opinion, arrived at freely; and if I 
have arrived at it in opposition to those of other people, possibly 
people with whom I may have had a community of agreement at some 
time, that is my right. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, let me compliment you, sir, and I want to say this : 
There are still some people in this room that I see, and I wish they 
would have a reconsideration of their position taken before this com- 
mittee and come on arid help us as this gentleman has. 

I give you that invitation — some of you who are still here in this 
room today. 

Thank you very much. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Witness, may I, on behalf of the entire committee, 
express our deej) appreciation and thauks for the contribution that we 
think you have so elfectively made to the work of this committee and, 
as we have told other witnesses who have exposed to us the inner work- 
ings of the Conmumist conspiracy against this Nation — indeed, against 
all free peoples everywhere^ — may I say this to you, and through you to 
your employers, whoever they may be : That this committee believes 
that in the rendition of this service to this committee, to this Congress, 
you have been doing something for your country that should be recog- 
nized; and the connnittee, as it has in other instances, hopes and prays 
that there will be no economic sanctions of any kind visited upon you, 
because they will be ill-deserved if they are. 

May I say, further, that I think you have given a most articulate 
expression of the reasons Avhy some people drift in and drift out it 
has been my privilege to hear. 

I thank you very, very much. 

INIr. Schwartz. Thank you. 

33909—53 — pt. 4 5 



1454 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Clardy. Now, the committee will stand in recess until 2 : 30 tliis 
afternoon. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 33 a. m., tlie hearings was recessed to reconvene 
at 2 : 30 p. m., of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 2 : 35 p. m., of the same day, the hearing was 
resumed, the followincr committee members being present : Repre- 
sentatives Harold H. Velde (chairman, appearance noted in tran- 
script), Bernard W. Kearney (appearance noted in transcript). Kit 
Clardy (presiding), Gordon H. Scherer, Morgan M. Moulder (ap- 
pearance noted in transcript), Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr. 
(appearance noted in transcrij)t).) 

Mr. Clardy (presiding). Tlie committee will be in order. 

Are you ready to ]:)roceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Clardy. Call your first witness. 

Mr, Tavenner. Mr. Robert Rossen. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. RossEN. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Be seated. 

Mr. RossEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. We will get the still camera ordeal over with first. 

That is a familiar story to you, almost as much as it is to us. 

TESTIMONY OF EOBEET KOSSEN 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what is your name? 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon me, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Reporter, let the record show a subcommittee consisting of 
Congressman Scherer, Congressman Doyle, and myself has been set up 
for this afternoon's session. Other members may arrive, at which 
time I ask you to record their joining the subcommittee. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 

Mr. RossEN. Robert Rossen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your name, please ? 

Mr. Rossen. R-o-s-s-e-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rossen, are you accompanied by counsel? 

Mr. Rossen. No; I'm not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are familiar with the practice of the conunit- 
tee, are you not, that every witness is encouraged and permitted to 
have counsel with him, if he desires? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. And also has the privilege of consulting counsel at 
any time he may so desire ? 

Mr. Rossen. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rossen 

Mr. Clardy. I think we should ask: It is at your own election y<ui 
are a})])earing unescorted, so to speak? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; I am. 



COIVIJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1455 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rossen, you appeared before the Committee on 
Un-American Activities on June 25, 1951, under a subpena, did you 
not ? 

Mr. Rossen. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. At that time you were very frank and dignified in 
the replies to the questions that were propounded to you, but you 
very hrndy relied upon the immunity given by the fifth amend- 
ment 

Mr. Rossen. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). To the Constitution, and you refused 
to answer many questions that were asked, although you did at the 
time deny that you were then a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. What was the date of that hearing. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. June 25, 1951. 

1 think I should point out at the close of the witness' testimony at 
that time a member of the committee had this to say : 

Mr. Ilosson. I ;nn very sorry that yoii have seen tit not to cooperate fnlly with 
the comuiittee. I aclinowledge the legality of your definition of cooperation, up 
to the point where your constitutional ri.uhts are involved ; but I feel, personally, 
that we are engaged in a mortal struji'le. in which one philosophy or the other 
is goini; to be victorious. 

I also feel that you have in your ixjssession infonnation which would be of 
inestimable value not only to this committee, but to the entire country and every 
citizen of this country. 

I hope that you will, as the weeks go by — I hoi)e it very sincerely — see your 
way clear to come in before this committee, not in the role of an informer, but 
in the role of a loyal American citizen, and in line with the statement that you, 
yourself, made before this committee, because I believe that your testimony 
today is inconsistent with your profession of loyalty. 

I hope that it will come to pass that the committee can have you back at a 
futui'e date when you will ixo all-out in an effort to do your part toward whipping 
this thing we are up against. 

And during the course of the testimony, when you were extended by 
counsel an invitation to come back, if you changed your mind, with 
regard to the fifth amendment, you replied that if you changed your 
mind you would get in touch with the committee. 

Mr. Rossen. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you change your mind ^ 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you get in touch with the committee? 

^^r. Rossen. Yes; I did. 

(Re])resentatives Moi'gan M. ^Moulder and James B. Frazier, Jr., 
entered the hearing room at this point.) 

Mv. Tavenner. So, your appearance here today is the result of j^our 
voluntary decision to reappear before the conunittee and answer such 
questions as may be asked? 

]\rr. Rossen. That's quite correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee nuiy like to know why you have 
changed your mind about that. 

Mr. Rossen. Well, arriving at a decision like this takes a long time. 
I'd like to sort of compare it to arriving at a decision to leaving the 
Connnunist Party. That takes a long time. It never has anything to 
do with any actual date. It usually is a long process of time. To 
arrive at the decision which makes me come here today took me several 
years. 



1456 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

As you've pointed ont, I was here in — before the committee in 1951. 
The decision that I arrived at in 1951 was an individual decision, I 
wasn't a member of the Communist Party at the time, as I stated. I 
felt that the position I had taken at the time was a position of what 
1 considered to be individual morality. It was a matter between me 
and my own conscience. I wasn't influenced by anyone, nor is this 
decision that I take here today influenced by anyone. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice a little ? 

]Mr. RossEN. I'm sorry. I'm not an actor. 

I did a lot of thinking. I don't think, after 2 years of thinking, 
that any one individual can even indulge himself in the luxury of 
individual morality or pit it against what I feel today very strongly 
is the security and safety of this Nation. 

This is a government, a democracy, of laws and not of men; and 
the law says that this Congress or this committee of this Congress has 
a right to inquire into matters affecting the security of this United 
States of America. 

It's my duty and my right to appear here today, after much think- 
ing, and give you whatever information I have. It is not my right to 
judge as to whether or not that information has any value. This is in 
your hands. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, I will proceed to ask some of the questions 
which were asked before, but not necessarily in the same way. 

Mr. RossEN. All right, sir. 

May I refer to some notes 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. You may. 

Mr. RossEN. If I may i 

Mr. Clardy. You may. Witness. 

Mr. RossEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. If it will help you in your recollection, you may do so. 

Mr. RossEN. It is a long recollection. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes ; I imagine so. 

Mr. Tavenner. As some of the present members of the committee 
were not members of the committee at the time you appeared before 
it, there are some things I would like for you to restate. 

When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Rossen. I was born in New York City on March 16, 1908. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

INIr. Rossen. Well, I have — I'm a producer, a director, and a writer 
of motion pictures. 

Mr. Tam:nner. Have you also been a playwright? 

Mr. Rossen. A great many years ago — not a successful one, but I 
wrote for the theater. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, some back- 
ground of your experience in those fields — that is, as a playwright, as 
a screenwriter, as a director, and as a producer ? 

Mr. Rossen. Well, I started Avorking in the New York theater 
about — IVl say about — 19-30. I wrote one play which was produced. 
I directed several, and went through the various jobs that one goes 
through in terms of the theater in order to achieve some kind of 
recognition ; but the main bulk of my work is in Hollywood, actually. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1457 

I went to Hollywood in 1936 as a screenwriter. I was under con- 
tract to Warner Bros, and stayed there for about seven and a half 
years. 

I then — what is known to the industry as — freelanced and worked 
for various organizations like Hal Wallis Productions, Enterprise, 
United Artists, and Columbia Pictures. 

About 1936 I started to direct, and in — no; 1946 — I'm sorry — I 
started to direct — and in 1947 I became — I organized my own com- 
pany and released through Columbia Pictures, which I was doing up 
to the time of that fatal day of June 25, 1951. 

And that about in terms of — that about sums up my life in Holly- 
wood — the work I've done in Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you tell the committee, please, what some 
of the principal productions have been for which you have received 
credit as a screenwriter? 

Mr. IvossEN. At Warner Bros. I wrote such films as Marked Woman, 
They Won't Forget, The Sea Wolf, Edge of Darkness, The Roaring 
Twenties. 

When I left Warner's — I'm sort of highlighting this — when I left 
Warner's, I wrote A Walk in the Sun, Strange Love of Martha 
Ivers — I directed one — two — Johnny O'Clock, Body and Soul, All 
the King's Men, and The Brave Bulls. I produced All the King's 
Men, The Brave Bulls, and a picture called Undercover Man. 

That would sort of highlight my career. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has consisted of? 

Mr, RossEN. I went to public schools in New York, high school, and 
I spent two and a half years at New York University, 

Ml-. Ta\enner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com- 
nnuiist I*arty? 

Mr. licssEN. Yes ; I was. 

Ml'. Tavenner. Over what period of time were you a member of 
the party ? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, without trying to pinpoint the exact dates, I 
u'ould say from about 1937 to 1947, 

Mr. TaVi:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, what the cir- 
cumstances were under which you united with the Communist Party 
or, in other words, why you became a member of the Commmiist 
Party? 

Mr. RossEN. I'll try. 

I've done a lot of thinking about this, and it seems to me, in addition 
to the usual reasons which have been presented before this committee, 
instead of going back to the thirties, I sort of went back to the twenties, 
and I kept thinking of the intellectual atmosphere in which we lived 
at that time as young men — the fact that there was a period of great 
cynicism, disillusionment; it was a period in which I think most young 
nien who were interested in ideas accepted the premise that the 
system of government or this Govenunent that we had grown up 
under had failed — there was no — there weren't any more horizons; 
there weren't any more promises; we had pretty much reached the 
apex of a pretty materialistic society. 

Then the tliirties, of course, and the de])ression proved — at least 
to an}' man with ideas — that this was true ; the system had, in a sense, 



1458 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

broken down for us in terms of our own personal experience, and we 
felt that Ave were looking — 1 felt that 1 was looking — for new horizons, 
a new kind of society, something I could believe in and become a part 
of, something in — well, in a sense I felt I wanted to attach myself to 
history; I Manted to be a part of that historical movement, and it 
seemed to me at the time the Connnunist Party ottered, as far as I 
was concerned, the oidy way which that could be effective. 

You had the rise of fascism in the thirties. You had struggle 
against the depression. You had the most vital movement in terms 
of writers, artists, et cetera, that existed. You felt that something 
new had to grow up, had to grow out of all of this, and you felt that 
the Communist Party was the medium through which this could be 
effected. 

This was, in a sense — it offered every possible kind of thing to you 
at that time which could fulhll your sense of idealism, and it was 
a kind of dedication. People in the Commmiist Party felt they were 
doing this not for any ])articular and inmiediate gain, but out of a real 
sense of self-sacrifice; and it was a catchall in the sense for idealism, 
and you went into it completely. 

Mr. SciiEREU. Was it because of this cynicism and the thing that 
you were looking for couldn't be found in any of the religions? 

Mr. E,ossEN. Well, we didn't have a very religious movement in this 
country in the twenties and thirties, did we ? 

One didn't really go toward religion in those days. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is the reason I asked the question. 

Mr. Doyle. They don't very often go toward it now^, do they ? 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't that one of the reasons why we are afflicted as we 
are today, because there is not that drive that should come from the 
inner man to lead us into religion? 

Mr. RossEX. Well, I don't know. I tliink you can find it in many 
different ways, and certainly anything that tends toward the realiza- 
tion of the inner man, on any level — wlietliei- it be the kind of —  
any level — is a good thing; but certainly in the days that I can remem- 
ber I think most of the intellectual life of the country was, in a sense, 
antireligious, or atheist. 

iSIr. ScHERER. That is the reason I said the cynicism of which you 
spoke. 

Mr. RossEN. Well, values had broken down. This is a real fact. 
There weren't any values, and the Communist Party seemed to be at- 
a place that had the values. Its ])Pople were the most dedicated. It 
worked the hardest, and it was interested in cultural movements. It 
ivas interested in anything you w^ere interested in. Therefore, you 
felt this was the only place you could possibly go. 

I would say on that level tliat was the reason — in other words, the 
same reason that you joined the party, as I believed, ultimately is 
the same reason you o:et out of it. 

Mr. Doyle. I didn't hear that. 

Mr. Clardy. You discovered the deception? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, the apparatus is not the apparatus for what you 
believe in. 

In other words, Mr. Doyle, what I said was — I said the same rea- 
sons why you go into the party are the same reasons wdiich make you 
go out, which is ultimately the discovery that the idealism that you 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTR'ITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1459 

were looking for, the figliting for the ideas that you want, are just not 
in tlie Communist Party. 

Mr. TA^^x]s^ER. You find 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, you don't- 



Mr. l^w'EXKEK (continuing). Other sinister motives and purposes 
that you had not discovered to begin with ? 

Mr. RossEX. Well, you discover none of the things that you believe 
in, in a sense, were being fought for in terms of that ideal itself. They 
were mere-l}' being instruments for an end in itself. 

Mr. Clardy. Just using them in a cynical fashion to bring con- 
^'erts into the party ? 

Mr. RosSEN. I would think so ; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't want to interrupt the magnificent trend of this 
thinking, but you say the ideals that brought you into the party were 
being used for an end. 

Mr. liossEN. The end being the organization of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, that is what I am getting at. 

Mr. IlossEN. Of course, the recruiting of people — well, for a great 
many reasons. 

Mr. Doyle. And does that mean, then, if I am not anticipating, 
that you found that the idealism which drove you into the Communist 
Party, or attracted you into the Communist Party, did not embrace 
the ideals, in fact, of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KossEX. That's correct, sir. 

Mr. DoYLE. In other words, they were not practicing what they 
were j^reaching? 

Mr. llossEX. It took a long time to find it out. 

Mr. Clardy. You discovered they weie very materialistic and very 
antireligious, and did not have the liberal concept or content that you 
thought it had? 

Mr. liossEX. Well, I would say no ; I would have to rule one of those 
things' out 

Mr. Clardy. Which is that? 

Mr, RossEX (continuing). Which is the question of antireligion. 
I mciui, when you went into the party, the party always stood very 
openly for a — against religion. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, you mean on that score, then? 

Mr. RossEN. I mean 



Mr. Clardy. So, the converts 

Mr. RossEX. I would have to rule that out, in my own- 



Mr. Clardy. You don't mean to rule it out — you mean most of those 
who went in to start with were not inclined to be very religious — — 

Mr. RossEX. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). And, therefore, thought nothing of that 
point ? 

Mr. RossEX. That's correct, because religion 

Mr. Clardy. You discovered, as you Avent along, however, that was 
one vital essential, though, didn't you ^ 

Mr. RossEX. Well, certainly. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you have any experience in your work, which 
I understood at the beginning to be that of a playwright, which had 



14G0 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

any bearings upon your entering into the party, in addition to the 
things you have just described to us? 

Mr. RossEN. I don't — I really don't quite follow you, Mr. Tavenner. 
Experience in what sense? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I had in mind your own experience in the 
theater whether or not elforts came to your attention of a disagree- 
ment with your work by Communist Party members which left any 
impression upon you and might have influenced you to some ex- 
tent 

Mr. RossEN. No ; not that I- 



Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Through criticism of your work. 

Mr. Rossen. No ; not that I can remember. 

I had — I — I had no party contacts in New York City at all that 
I can remember ; and, as a matter of fact, I was pretty far away from 
it at that time. 

My only recollection is what I read in the press, but that didn't 
have any relation to me personally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, as I understand, you became susceptible to 
the Communist Party prior to 1937. When did you actually become 
a member of the party ? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, if I can recall, I think it was sometime in the 
early part of 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that after you had gone to California ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; it was about — somewhere within a year from the 
date I went to California; somewhere within that year. I came to 
California in the middle of 1936, and in — if recollection serves me, 
I joined the party, I would say, about the spring or summer of '37. 
I'm not quite sure, but it's somewhere within that area. 

Well, in Hollywood, particularly — again, you have to look at the 
background of what was going on at that time. You had a great 
trade-union fight that was going on in relation to the Screen Writers' 
Guild in 1936. 

There was — there had been set up by the producers at that time 
an organization called the Screen Playwrights. The Screen Writers' 
Guild at that time felt this was a competent union and that a fight 
should be made. 

The most active people in that fight — it was highly organized and 
most effective — were people that subsequently I found out to be mem- 
bers of the Communist Party — as a matter of fact, I — I really think, 
in retrospect, the most capable; and, naturally, I was drawn toward 
these people, both from the point of view of their dedication to what 
they were doing and from the point of view of their prestige and 
their standing as screenwriters; and when I was approached some- 
where in the spring of 1937 to join the party, I must say that I was 
not bashful at all. I was vevy eager to join the Communist Party 
in 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go through any course of preparation or 
training before actually being asked to become a member of the party ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; there were Marxist study groups — two steps be- 
fore you got into the party : There was a Marxist study group, and 
then after you went through that, which must have lasted — not very 
long — I imagine about 2 or 3 months — you then went to a new mem- 
bers' class, and you then became a member of the party. Those were 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1461 

the — I think that period must have taken about — oh, no more than 
about 4 or 5 months altogether. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Who was it that solicited your membership in the 
party ? 

]\Ir. RossEN. A man called Michael Uris. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. AVhat was his position in Hollywood, or his pro- 
fession ? 

Mr. RossEN. He was a screenwriter. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you spell his name, please ? 

Mr. Rossen. U-r-i-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. Michael Uris? 

Mr. RossEN". That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. Is this a good juncture for our brief recess? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Chairman Velde has arrived. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. We will recess for 5 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 3 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 
3 : 05 p. m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 3: 10 p. m., the following committee 
members being present. Representatives Harold H. Velde (chair- 
man), Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Morgan M. Moulder, Clyde 
Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr.) 

Mr. Velde. The conunittee will be in order. 

Let the record show at this point present are Mr. Clardy, Mr. 
Scherer, Mr, Moulder, Mr. Doyle, Mr. Frazier, and the chairman, Mr. 
Velde. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that the first step you took in getting 
into the p.irty in Hollywood was to attend Marxist classes? 

Mr. RossEN. That's correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the instructor of the class? 

iNlr. RossEN. Dr. Leo Bigelman. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Dr. Leo Bigelman. 

Would you spell the last name? 

Mr. RossEX. B-i-g-e-1-m-a-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, testimony has been introduced 
through a number of witnesses identifying Dr. Bigelman as a mem- 
ber of the party. 

Did you later learn he was a member of the party? 

Mr. iRossEN. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. He appeared as a witness, but refused to testify. 

Mr. Velde. Claiming the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Ta\t=;nner. Claiming the fifth amendment. 

The evidence was introduced that he was a member of a profes- 
sional cell of the Communist Party composed solely of members of 
the medical profession. 

After you completed your work in the study group and then in the 
training, early training, class for members of the Communist Party, 
were you assigned to any special group of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. At that time groups were, as I remember them, 
sort of divided up into geographic units. In other words, you went 
to the unit or branch near which you lived — made it easy for yon to 

33909— 53— pt. 4 6 



1462 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

get to — and I don't know the name or designation of the first branch, 
but I can remember the general area and some of the people. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of that par- 
ticular branch or cell of the party ? 

Mr. RossEN. About — somewhere around a year. I would say about 
a year, until I moved out of that area and went to another area. 

Mr, Tavenner. Well, what, in general, was the type of membership 
that made up that group? 

Mv. RossEN. People who worked in motion pictures — that is — and 
their wives — that is, creative people, people who, in that particular 
branch, as I remember — and I don't remember too many of the 
people — but mostly writers, and I think one director was in it; but 
the cells or branches, whatever you call them, would pretty much fall 
into, aside from its geographic structure — would pretty much fall 
into a craft structure. In other words, writers would generally go 
together with writers, and directors, et cetera. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, during the period you were a member of these 
two groups, were you visited by functionaries of the party who lec- 
tured or otherwise instructed the membership? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. 

Not in the first group ; not in the Marxist study group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Rossen. I can't remember that, but when I went into a new 
members' class, I can remember functionaries — well, I — I'm not sure 
about one of them, but Madelaine Ruthven, who was an organizer of 
the Communist Party in Hollywood — I think a paid functionary 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). The last name, please? 

Mr. Rossen. R-u-t-h-v-e-n. 

And I can remember Lawson came around, 

Mr. Tavenner. Who? 

Mr. RossEN. John Howard Lawson, 

Mr. TA^^NNER. John Howard Lawson. 

Mr. Rossen. And I think Lou Harris visited that group — H-a-r-r-i-s. 

I think the only one of those people who I mentioned were actually 
paid functionaries was Madelaine Ruthven or — I don't know whether 
she was paid or not — whether or not they paid her, 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Well, during the period of your membership, were 
you required to pay dues ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes; there was — as a matter of fact, that was one of 
the functions of a new members' class. You not only got instruction 
in terms of the organizational structure of the party, but also the 
question of dues. 

It was divided into dues and assessments — that is, I think the basic 
dues were a dollar a month, but in terms of Hollywood you were 
assessed a percentage of your salary, and if I remember correctly it 
was about 5 percent, less whatever you paid your agent. 

Mr. Clardy. Less what? 

Mr. Rossen. Whatever you paid your agent, 

Mr. Clardy. Oh. 

Mr. Rossen. In other words, that would come out of the net salary 
that you made. 



t 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1463 

Mr. Tavenner. It would be a percentage of your net salary ? 

Mr. RossEisr. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavt:nner. And did that apply to the writers generally 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing) . Who were members of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. RossEN. That applied to the Hollywood — in my own expe- 
rience, that applied to tlie Holl3'wood section of the Communist Party. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wliat percentage did you say that was? 

Mr. RossEN. Five. 

Mr. ScHERER. Five percent? 

Mr. RossEX. Five percent. 

Mr. SciiERER. Of your salary ? 

Mr. RossEx. Tliat's right. 

Mv. Moulder. Five percent each month ? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Ci^RDY. That would amount to very large sums of money over 
a given period, if there were very many in it ; wouldn't it? 

]\Ir. RossEN. Yes ; it would. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rossen 

Mr. Clardy. Does he have some knowledge of that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. He does, as I understand. 

Mr. Clardy. I wonder if lie had on a general scale. 

IMr. Tavenner. I will ask him. 

How much did you contribute by way of assessments to the Com- 
munist Party, as well as you can recall? 

Mr. Rossen. I've tried to sort of compute it. I just can't be accu- 
rate, but I would say, over a period of 10 years, in terms of direct con- 
tributions to the Communist Party, Peoples' World drives, contri- 
butions to the New JSIasses — I'd say about $20,000. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period- 

Mr. Frazier. During a period of 10 years ? 

;Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

That would not include amounts of money I had given to organiza- 
tions outside. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would not include your contributions to Com- 
munist-front organizations ? 

Mr. Rossen. Well, I didn't know they — you know, T — I mean, it 
would not include contributions to Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Com- 
mittee or political campaigns, and so forth. 

I would say that would pretty well sum up — come i)retty close to 
what I contributed almost directly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Directly to the party? 

Mr. Rossen, That's right. 

Mr. ScuERER. Have you any idea what your total contribution, then, 
would be to the Communist cause or Connnunist-front organizations? 

Mr. Rossen. That would be awfully hard to tell, in going back. 

JNIr. Sche;rer. I know it would be hard, but have you got some idea? 

I would be interested in knowing that. 

]\rr. Rossen. Well, I — I say — I could say pretty safely I think you 
could double it easily. 

Mr. SciiERER, Double it ? 

ISIr. Rossen. I think vou could double that sum, 20 and get an- 
other 20. 



1464 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

INIr. Tavenner. Now, how, in your judgment, did your contributions 
compare with that made by other principal screenwriters who were 
members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. RossEN. I don't think there were very many people in the 
Communist Party, in my own knowledge, who gave that amount be- 
cause they — you know, there weren't very many people who made that 
kind of money, that they could give it. I wouldn't say — my own recol- 
lection — there were more than maybe 10 throughout Hollywood who 
could give that kind of money. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, yo\i are talking about in your own professional 
class ? 

Mr. EossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Not in the actor group ? 

Mr. RossEN. No ; no. I wouldn't know very much about them at all. 

Mr. SciiERER. But it would be 5 percent ? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. SciiEREK. Tliat w;i8 a general practiced 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. ScHERER. It would be 5 percent of their net income ? 

Mr. RossEN. The reason I can't go into what the rest of it is — that 
would then come down — I don't think very many of them weie in for 
10 years. So, you naturally would have to come down with that total. 

Mr. SciiERER. We would have to consider it on a percentage basis. 

Mr. RossEN. But that was — sometimes it varied. We would have 
discussions about it. It would go to 4 sometimes; sometimes go up to 
6, and then 4 when people felt they were paying too much. But it 
would always be witliin that area. I never remember it varying be- 
tween 4 and 5. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Max Silver, who was executive secretary of the 
Communist Party for Los Angeles County, has testified that the large 
contributions or assessments that were made in this area did not pass 
thi'ough the county organization. Do you have any knowledge of how 
the funds were handled ? 

Mr. Rossen. I have no direct knowledge, Mr. Tavenner. I can only 
recall conversations on the subject, and it's my impression there al- 
ways was — my recollection, rather — that there always was a kind of — 
the county and section were at odds as to whether or not the county 
was getting its proper share of the money. The recollection tliat I 
have is that the bulk of the money collected in Hollywood went pretty 
directly to the national committee in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know for what purpose the national com- 
mittee used the funds raised in Hollywood? 

Mr. RossEN. I can only surmise that. I could have no direct knowl- 
edge of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you have any basis? 

Mr. Rossen. I can only say, surmise, it would be in terms of party 
press ; it would be in terms of paid organizers. 

I think that generally that an awful lot of money went into pub- 
lication and party press, et cetera, but I would have no direct knowl- 
edge of knowing exactly what they did with the money, nor how it 
got there. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Do you recall any special appeals from the national 
headquarters to the Communist members in Hollywood for the pur- 
pose of financing projects of the Communist Party? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1465 

Mr. RossEN. Gee, there were so many special appeals it's hard for me 
to recall, but the things that always keep — that keep — that are most 
vivid in my memory always seem to be connected with the party 
press — the fact that the New Masses or the Daily Worker or the 
Peoples' World could not meet its printing bill or was about to go 
under, and an appeal would come to you, saying, "Will you con- 
tribute that amount of money so we can keep the party press going?" 

Mr. Clardy. It was always just on the verge of folding unless some- 
body contributed ? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. ScHERER. At least that is what the representation was that 
was made ? 

Mr. RossEN, Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I had in mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you have told us of having been transferred 
from one group to another group in the Communist Party. That w' ould 
bring you up to about what date, do you think, the time that you 
were 

]Mr. RossEX. Some time around 1939, I would say. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1939. 

Mr. RossEN. I am trying to recall in terms of places I lived in, and 
I remember I had — I moved from Hollywood to Beverly Hills in 
about 1939, which would mean I would have gone into another group 
at that time. So, somewhere around 1939, I would say, is a pretty 
correct estimate of the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, in 1939 there occurred an event which seemed 
to have had considerable effect ui^on members of tlie Communist 
Party. 

You have stated that one of your reasons for going into the Com- 
munist Party was the rise of fascism in Europe. 

Now, on August 23, 1939, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany 
enterecl into a pact which had very wide ramifications and a great 
impact upon people throughout the world. 

Mr. RossEN. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you were opposed to fascism in Europe, as the 
Communists professed to be, was there an}^ difficulty within your 
party group upon learning that — that there had been this pact be- 
tween Soviet Russia and Hitlerite Germany? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, there was great consternation, as I can remember, 
throughout Hollywood, which was the direct contact I had. As a 
matter of fact, I think a great many people must have dropped out 
at tluit time. 

The effort to explain it, in a way, was very strenuous, and people 
who were either on the functionary level, who were Communists for a 
great many years, spent a lot of time explaining it. 

It was always necessary at that time to get a rationale. In other 
words, practically my whole life in the party, as I reflect upon it, is 
a series of rationales. 

One of the rationales that was given to me — that doesn't imply that 
you didn't look for it yourself, but one of the rationales was: You 
weren't a good Marxist. Therefore, you didn't understand it; and 
if you had been a good Marxist and had really understood Marxism, 
Iveninism, et cetera, you would have understood the necessity for the 
pact. 



1466 C01VI3VIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

My own particular case — I needed more rationale than tliat, and I 
must say I Avanted a rationale. I wanted a reason. I wanted a reason 
because one doesn't throw over very easy what one has gone into and 
believed in. 

I got the rationale at that time that the important part of the Nazi- 
Soviet pact, to me, personally, was the fact, that, in my opinion, it 
saved over a million Jews from being destroyed by Hitler. 

As you remember, when the Nazis marched into Poland, the Red 
Army marched to a particular area. My own background was such — • 
my people came from that area — that I knew how many Jews there 
were there. I was very interested. I knew that these Jews would 
be destroyed, as subsequently proven, and my feeling was that this was 
an act of saving that number of Jews from possible destruction. 

Subsequenth^ I've done some research, in trying to find out whether 
or not I was alone in that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, just a moment, to be certain we are clear 
about that. There was no question in your mind as to what would 
hai^pen to the Jews who were in the wake of the Nazi army ? 

Mr. RossEN. None whatever. 

Mr. Tavennek. You attempted to rationalize the situation by at- 
tempting to conclude that those Jews who were in the area which was 
occupied by the Russian Army would not receive the same treat- 
ment 

Mr. RossEN. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). As those in the German Army path? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. That is exactly the way I felt at that 
time. 

INIr. Tavenner. Well 

Mr. RossEN. Shall I continue? 

Mv. Sciierer. Well, you 

Mr. Taat.nner. Excuse me. 

Mr. Scherer. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am interested to know to what extent the Com- 
munist Party endeavored to utilize that view in holding persons in the 
Communist Party who were of the Jewish race. 

Mr. Rossen. Well, in Hollywood at that time I don't think it was 
used to any great extent. That is, in terms of Hollywood — but 1 don't 
think the Jewish question was ever very seriously discussed at that 
time. 

Now, I go back now to 1989. T did discuss this with, oh, four or five 
people at the time and we all reached that conclusion. 

Subsequently I wanted to find out whether or not I had reached this 
independently or whether or not the party, as such, had used this as a 
means of holding people ; and some research I have here, for whatever 
it is worth, bears that theory out ; and if you want to bear with me 

Mr. Scherer. That is wliat I want. 

Mr. Rossen (contimiing). I can read some of it. 

Mr. Scherer. That is what I would like. 

Mr. Rossen. This is from the Worker of September 18, 1939. 

Mr. Doyle. What Worker is that? 

Mr. Rossen. Daily W^orker. 

Mr. Doyle, The Communist Party 

TNIr. Rossen, That is the Communist press; yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1467 

It is an editorial entitled "For National Freedom and World Peace." 

Mr. Tavennf.r. Let me interrupt you there a moment. Do you 
recall how soon the German Army and the liussian Army began their 
marches into Poland after the completion of the pact between Russia 
and Germany ? 

Mr. liossEN. I don't recall the exact date, but I don't think it took 
more than a week. As I can recall, the Nazi-Soviet pact was signed 
the last week in August — somewhere around August 23 — and I think 
the Germans invaded Poland around September 1. So, the Reel Army 
move must have come either the same day or a day later, and all of 
these events happened with great rapidity. I mean just before you 
even had a chance to think, there they were. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, then 

Mr. RossEN. I would say that would be the date pretty much. 

Now, obviously there must have been a lot of discussion throughout 
the party on this, and this is not — I'll quote here — this editorial is 
headed "For National Freedom and World Peace" : 

As Hitler's hordes advanced further intd I'olaiid. the atrocities against the 
Jewish people and other minorities exceeded some of fascism's goriest deeds. 

In this situation, the Soviet Government sent in the Red Army, an army of 
liberation, to protect the Ukrainian and White Russian minorities, after the 
semi-t'ascist Polish Government had ceased to exist and had left them to the 
ravages of war and Fascist enslavement. 

More than a million Jews living in western Ukraine and western Byelo-Russia 
are now beyond the pale of Fascist anti-Semitism. 

There is another article — I think that is the same day — and I will 
just quote part of it — an article by Harry Gannes: 

Especially the Jewish peoples in the areas liberated by the Red Army will 
have cause for thanking. No longer will they be persecuted once the Red Army 
has set them free. 

And here in New York several days later the Daily Worker article 
entitled "Freiheit Switchboard Mirrors Jewish Joy Here" : 

To the Jewish people in New York City with Landsleit (relatives) in Western 
Ukrainian and Western White Russia : 

The Red Army is indeed an army of liberation, bringing freedom to those near 
and dear. 

The switchboard of the Jewish Morning Freiheit has been flooded with calls 
these past few days from anxious relatives interested in learning the latest 
moves of the Red Army of freedom. 

So, obviously the party press considered it important enough to 
hold in line those people — the Jews — and who would find it very diffi- 
cult to accept the Nazi-Soviet pact, as I did, and I reached for this 
rationalization and I accepted it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did anything occur subsequently to that which cast 
doubt upon your mind that it was an army of liberation^ 

Mr. RossEx. Well, aside from the immediate events of the past 6 
months, I think — it must be — ^by this time I had a feeling — I had a 
feeling a long time ago, while I was in the party, that the Jewish 
question, or tlie party's rehitionship to the Jewish question, was, to 
])ut it mildly, not a very sincere one — that it was being used, I think, 
I)rimarily for ]n'etty optimistic reasons. The party was not very 
nnich interested in the question of Jews at any time. It became inter- 
ested in the question of Zionism, the establishment of the Israeli State, 
during the war because it was to the best interests of the Soviet Union 
to win that war. It was also to our best interests — I mean, historically 



1468" COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

speaking, of course, it was — and our allies at that point; but the use 
ot that, and the switch, the espousal of Zionism, in the forties, was 
■obviously a move which was dictated by necessity. 

The switch on Zionism again was a move that was dictated by neces- 
sity. The Soviet Union switch on, for instance — I'm going to ramble 
a little, if I may, on this — I'm trying to piece it together — the whole 
approach, Communist approach, to the Jewish question was that 
■only in a socialist society could the Jews find a place for themselves. 
They said, for instance, that the answer to the whole Jewish problem 
was berebuchen, which was an establishment they had set up some- 
where along there. They pointed out, for instance, only in the Soviet 
Union a national tongue, which in terms of Yiddish — national cul- 
ture—be perpetuated alongside of Russian-Soviet culture. 

During the war, to hold the Jewisli people, to bring them over to 
the side of the Soviet Union, they sent over — I think it was some time 
in 1942 or 1943 — I don't quite remember the dates — a man called 
Michoels, who was the leading actor 

Mr. Tavennp:r. Will you spell the name, please ? 

Mr. RossEN. If I can, I will — M-i-c-h-o-e-l-s — and I think another 
man called Itzy Pfeffer, who was a Yiddish poet 

Mr. Clardy. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. RossEN. P-f-e-f-f-e-r. 

And all of the Jewish people in the party were genuinely excited 
by the fact the Soviet Union was taking this tremendous interest in 
the Yiddish problem, even to the point of cultural exchange. 

We Avere proud of the fact — for instance, Michoels was the leading 
Shakespearean actor in the Soviet Union, and acted Shakespeare in 
Yiddish, and we talked to the men that came to Hollywood. 

Now, it is very interesting that when the switch came, when it was 
no longer of Soviet interest to become interested or to project the Yid- 
dish problem, they even switched on Michoels. 

I remember reading some time ago that in the Czechoslovakian 
trials of the 9 men who were hung — and hung, in my opinion, for being 
Jews, and nothing else=-I don't think they were traitors to the Soviet 
Union as such. I don't know. I wouldn't be able to judge that, but 
it is very interesting that the word "Jew" and the word "traitor" was 
equated openly by the Soviet Union — and I say the Soviet Union 
despite the fact that the trials took place in Czechoslovakia. It makes 
no difference. 

And the Soviet Union was very well aware, knowing Communists 
as I have — no action is taken without the awareness of the consequence 
of that action. The Soviet Union knew that by raising the word 
"Jew" and raising the word "traitor" it was specifically inciting the 
people of these various countries, which had been hotbeds of anti- 
Semitism for hundreds of years, to anti-Semitism ; and I think the act 
Avas done deliberately, and all of the good intentions, tlie avowed, 
professed interests of the Soviet Union in Jews as a minority waa 
thrown overboard completely. 

And the consequence of that act — I don't know, in terms of Jews, 
if it will ever be overcome because, you know, I don't know whether 
or not, despite the recent recantations of the Soviet Union — Malenkov 
saying "It wasn't me ; it was two other fellows that did it" — I don't 
know whether you can take that out of the minds of these people 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1469' 

who live in these countries; and I think that, in my opinion, tlie — 
that is one of the most senile, immoral, and corrupt acts that has oc- 
curred in my lifetime — something I feel very deeply about, very 
strongly about — and I think if there was any illusion, any more, in 
terms of the feeling of the Soviet Union toward minorities — I think 
this act must expose to anybody that this is all an illusion and it has 
no basis in fact. 

And even the fact of — the trick of saying it says specifically by 
law in the Soviet constitution, wherever it is, that anti-Semitism is 
forbidden is, to me — well, it's just nothing. It has no basis at all. 
It's immoral. 

Mr. Tavenxer, Now, I do not believe you followed through, as 
you started to, in describing what you had learned in describing two 
individuals you had mentioned who Avere sent to this country • 

Mr, RossEN, I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). If I understood it correctly. 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Well, I got kind of — well, intense about it, I suppose. I don't 
know whatever happened to Itzy Pfeffer, but in the conspiracy 
charge against Slonsky, Simon, et cetera, Michoels, who is now 
dead — was mentioned as one of the conspirators, one of the traitors, 
who conspired in 1944 for this horrible thing of helping the State 
of Israel — so that this man, who was sent from the Soviet Union 
to the United States, as a great artist — and he was — this man, when 
they didn't need him any more, and even though he was dead — and 
they were using his corpse, in a sense, to discredit the whole Jewish 
movement — this man was named as a conspirator. Now, he wasn't 
hanged. He died before that. I'm sure that the subsequent events 
have proven he probably would have been hanged at that time. 

I came across some other things that I have here. I don't know — 
they probably will belabor the point at tliis time; but I think it's — as 
clearly as I can make it, I think that is my point in relation to that 
particular aspect. 

Mr. ScHERER, Could I ask 

Mr. Velde. I 



Mr. ScHERER. Go ahead. Did you 

Mr. Velde. Yes. I want to ask a question at this point, since we 
are on the point of anti-Semitism in the Soviet government. 

There are those, of course, among the Jewish faith who argue that 
the Soviet Government and the American Communist Party are not 
anti-Semitic. 

I think there are those who conscientiously believe that the Soviet 
Government and the American Communist Party or any other party 
behind the Iron Curtain, or any other Coinnumist Party in the Iron 
the American Connnunist Piu'ty are not anti-Semitic. 

You probably know some of the arguments that tliese conscientious 
people — I am not talking about the ordinary member of the Com- 
munist Party who is disciplined by the Connnunist Party, but these 
conscientious people — who believe that the Soviet (xovernment and 
the American Communist Party are not anti-Semitic. 

What do they base their belief on ? 

Mr. RossEN. I honestly wouldn't know in terms of the American 
Connnunist Party, because this would be a recent development. I, 
personally, don't know. 



1470 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

I can understand a man on the American scene saying that the 
American Comnninist Party is not anti-Semitic — and I don't know 
whether it is. Frankly, I wouldn't know. I would doubt very much 
that it is; but to the extent that it supports Soviet policy in this — 
to the extent that it supports those trials — to the extent that it does 
not denounce the equation of the word "Jew^" to traitor that has been 
made — to that extent, whether by conscious intent, or w-hatever it 
is — to that extent, it nnist be anti-Semitic. 

Mr. Vei-de. I think you are making a very excellent statement in 
that regard; and, of course, I think you realize, as we do, too, any 
form of totalitarianism is opposed to racial and religious minorities, 
and it would be rather absurd to think that totalitarian Kussia is any 
different from any other totalitarian form of government in thai 
regard. 

The commitee will be in recess for about 7 minutes, until 10 minutes 
until four. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 43 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 3: 50 p. m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 3:55 p. m., the following connnittee 
members being present: Representatives Kit Clardy (presiding), 
Gordon H. Scherer, Morgan M. Moulder, and Clyde Doyle.) 

Mr. Clardt. The committee will be in order. 

Are you ready? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rossen, you stated at the time you were first in Hollywood that 
there were various problems which had arisen in the Screen Writers' 
Guild. 

Now, I am not going to ask you to discuss those matters because the 
committee has heard a great deal of evidence in regard to them, but 
I do want to ask you the general question of whether or not the Com- 
munist Party was making an effort to control or influence the policy 
of that group. 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; it was, in the sense that known Communists al- 
ways worked to influence whatever trade union they belonged to. 

This — again, I want to make this point clear : A great many issues 
of the Communist Party — a great many issues the Communist Party 
fought for w^ere basically very good issues. The fact that — the fact 
that it enhanced the power of the Communist Party is another matter. 

But we met in Hollywood. We had Communist Party members on 
the executive board. We discussed the policies outside of the executive 
board, and in general tried to influence them. 

I think at that time w^e got a lot of good things done — the Screen 
Writers' Guild. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you said a very interesting thing. You in- 
dicated that it was only by the sponsoring of good causes that the 
Communist Party could increase its power. 

Mr. Rossen. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, to what extent was the increasing of power 
an essential in the Communist Party? Just what do you mean by 
that? 

Mr. Rossen. Well, we can't think of power in its naked sense in 
Hollywood, you know — power in terms of its effect upon Hollywood. 

W^hat would power really mean ? 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1471 

Power would mean getting new recruits. Power would mean 
attracting people because of the prestige of other people. Power 
would mean by getting important people to come into the Comnmnist 
Party, or even nonimportant people. It would mean increasing the 
financial structure, and in this sense the Communist Party could 
function effectively in Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. You made mention of the fact that there were 
various persons on the executive board of the Screen Writers' Guild 
who were members of the Communist Party. 

I have before me a partial list of members of the executive board. 
Would you mind glancing at this list and give us the names of those 
\\ho were members of the executive board who were known to you to 
be members of the Conmiunist Party, jjrobably from the years 1937 
to 11J39 ? 

Mr. EossEN. On the first list here I see Ring Lardner. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Ring Lardner? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Ring Lardner, Jr. ? 

Mr. Rossex. That's right. 

Maurice Rapf. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How do you spell the last name? 

Mr. Rossex. R-a-p-f. 

Mr. Tavexner. Now, if you will, pronounce those names as dis- 
tinctly as you can, i:)lease. 

Mr. Rossex. Bucld Wilson Schulberg. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And will you spell the last name each time ? 

Mr. Rossex'. S-c-h-u-1-b-e-r-g. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Would you mark a check mark on the names of 
those that you have identified ? 

Mr. Clardy. Keep your voice as high as you can. I see the press is 
busily copying these down. They want to* be accurate, I am sure. 

Mr. Rossex. Budd W^ilson Schulberg, and the assistant secretary of 
the guild, Ann Roth. 

Mr. Clardy. Ann who? 

Mr. Rossex. Rotli— R-o-t-h. 

Now, tliat list, as I see here, is from 19?.0 to 1940. 

This list is 1940 to 1941. I can identify on this list Sidney Buchman. 

Mr. Clardy. Sidney Buchman? 

Mr. Rossex. Buchman — B-u-c-h-iri-a-n. 

Lester Cole. 

Mr. Cl.\rdy. C-o-l-e? 

Mr. Rossex. C-o-l-e. 

I am sorry. I will si)ell them out. 

Mr, Clardy. If you will. 

Mr. Rossex. Yes. 

Ciertrude Purcell — P-u-r-c-e-1-1. 

Mr. Clardy. The first name is Gertrude? 

Mr. Rossex. (Jertrude. 

Dalton Trumbo. 

Ml-. Clardy. Please spell that last name. 

Mr. Rossex. T-r-u-ip.-b-o. 

And I have a list here 1942 to 1943. John Howard Lawson— 
L-a-w-s-o-n. 



1472 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE NEW YORK AREA 

I want you to bear in mind tliat I will only identify people as bein<^ 
members of the Communist Party in terms of my direct knowledge 
of it. 

Mr. Cl.\rdt. Well, that is all we want. 

Mr. RossEN. Not in terms of supposition or g-ossip. 

So, I am going to skip a name here. 

Mr. Doyle. We don't want it on any other basis. 

Mr. RossEX. Marguerite Roberts — R-o-b-e-r-t-s. 

That pretty much concludes the list I have in front of me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any particular project of the Screen 
Writers' Guild with which you became identified ? 

Mr. RossEN. Screen Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. RossEN. Well. I was involved in a great 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a direct question about it. 

Mr. RossEN. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Screen Writers' Guild sponsor the Holly- 
wood Writers' Mobilization? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes: it did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, briefly, about that, 
please ? 

Mr. RossEN. Hollywood Writers' Mobilization was formed, I think, 
on — Pearl Harbor was December 7, and we had an executive board 
meeting on December 8, 1941, at which point we were all concerned 
with what writei's conld do in Hollywood in terms of the Avar effort, 
and had a full discussion at the board meeting. We decided to con- 
tact the Writers' War Board which had been set up here in New 
York. 

About 3 months — no — 3 weeks later, I think, we decided that we 
would set up what was known originally as a writers' mobilization — 
in the literal translation of the word, a mobilization of writers. Out 
of that organization, and a genuine desire to participate in the war 
effort, all the other guilds — the creative guilds — in HollyAvood ex- 
pressed a desire to join that guild — to join the mobilization, and I 
think subsequently it had in it, I'd say, about five various guilds and 
some of the craft unions came into it. I can't remember them offliand, 
unless I see the agenda. 

The main financial burden of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization 
was carried by the Screen Writers' Guild. I think the membershi]> 
as a whole — and this was not a Communist project as such — voted 
to put aside a sum of $10,000 a year for the work of the Hollywood 
Writers' Mobilization and, in general, the Hollywood Writers' Mo- 
bilization was concerned with getting writers to service the various 
Government agencies, sending them to write films for Army train- 
ing — Army training films — sending entertainment around to the war 
plants 

I think there was an outfit called the Lunch Time Follies, and I am 
not sure whether it originated on the east or west coast. 

We were also concerned with raising the cultural understanding of 
the various countries with each other. We tried to effect an exchange 
of craft discussion between England, writers in England, and writers 
in the Soviet Union, and I think some correspondence and some ma- 
terial went back and forth ; but they were basically — ^my recollection — 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1473 

all things that concerned themselves with the discussion of craft 
and techniques, and how to utilize them, in terms of the war effort. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, Mr, Richard Collins has testified before the 
committee and has described how it was the purpose of the Communist 
Party to prostitute this organization at the close of the war. Were 
you familiar in any way with its operations in 1945 or lOlG? 

Mr. IlossEN. No ; not very much. I was chairman of the Hollywood 
Writers' Mobilization from 1911 to, I think, sometime in 1944. 

I went to New York and stayed in New York from 1944 to 1945. 
When I came back, I was more or less a nominal member of the board 
and was not very vitally active, so that what went on in the Holly- 
wood y\^riters' Mobilization after the close of the war I would have 
very little direct knowledge of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there anything of an unusual nature about the 
manner in which you were selected as chairman of the Hollywood 
Writers' Mobilization ? 

Mr. RossEN. No ; no. I think that was rather spontaneous 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there 

Mr. RossEN (continuing). As I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Anything of an unusual character 
about the manner in which you left as its chairman ? 

Mr. Rossen. Well, Mv. Tavenner, in order to go into that, I would 
have to — I'm kind of nonplussed here. I don't want to mention — 
well, I'll just preface the names involved with whether or not they 
were members of the Communist Party, because I don't want to raise 
any questions of individuals here in any sense and have them in any 
sense bear the^ 

Mr. Tavennp:r. Not at all. There should be no connotation at all 
placed upon reference to any name that you may have to refer to, if 
you do — and, in fact, I prefer you not refer 

Mr. Rossen. Well, suppose 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). To any names. 

Mr. Rossen. Well, su})pose I just tell the story generally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just tell the story generally. I think that would 
suffice. 

Mr. Rossen. I — during the war, the Communist Party, under 
Browder's leadership policy of popular fi-ont, an attempt to draw all 
people into the war effort — and the ^Connnunist Party particularly 
decided that this was a particularly good time to attract more people 
to — well, again to strengthen the party — and it was 

Mr. Tavenner. In order that the party itself may have more power. 

Mr. Rossen. Always. 

Mr. Tavenner. Always. 

Mr. Rossen. That's every 

Mr. 'I'avenner. Yes. 

Mr. Rossen. I mean, that was a natural How of things. 

It was decided at that time it was important that a man who was 
not a member of the Connmmist Party be chairman of the organiza- 
tion as j)art of the — part of the move to broaden the popular front, 
and 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, part of the move of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rossen (continuing). Communist Party. 

Mr. Ti^vENNKR. Yes. 



1474 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. RossEisr. This was decided not within the mobilization. 

I want to make very clear here the decisions of the mobilization, in 
my opinion, in my recollection, in my time, were, I think, a very 
dedicated — very dedicated decisions in terms of the war. 

So, the decisions I am referring to are decisions made outside of the 
mobilization within the Communist Party and affecting the mobiliza- 
tion, and the decision at that time was made that I step down and 
that this man bs placed as chairman, which I agreed to. 

The various guilds didn't want this at the time, but I handed in my 
resignation and then some of the guild members felt I ought to be 
given some kind of a testimonial or award for the work I had done 
in the 3 years, and again the decision was made that this would reflect 
upon the non-Communist, would give him too heavy a burden to carry, 
and in order to attract him and his work, and to influence him, more 
directly, that I step out as quietly and out of the back door, and 
leave the organization, as I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was done at the direction and instance of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. RossEN. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the leader in that movement within the 
Communist Party who dictated that policy ? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, I — I suppose 

Mr. Tavenner. Or can it be put that bluntly ? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes ; it can. 

I was just thinking of the word "dictator." I suppose you can use 
the word "persuader." John Howard Lawson. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a list of the Hollywood Writers' 
Mobilization steering committee during the year 1944-4:5. 

Mr. Rossen. 1944-45. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was published 1944-45, but I'm not certain it was 
actually for that year. 

Let me hand it to you and ask you, as I did before, whether or not 
you can identify any members of the steering committee as members 
of the Communist Party; and, if so, give their names, please, and 
check them on the list, and spell the names. 

Mr. RossEN. Pauline Lauber Finn — F-i-n-n. She was executive 
secretary. 

Mr. Clardy. Pauline 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And the middle name? 

Mr. RossEN. Lauber — L-a-u-b-e-r — Finn — F-i-n-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not she was a functionary 
in the Communist Party? 

Mr. RossEN. Not to my knowledge, she wasn't. 

Bill Blowitz. 

I'm bearing in mind that some of these names have been mentioned 
before by me, and I am not mentioning them again. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't get that name. 

Mr. RossEN. Some of these names that I am going over have been 
mentioned before in terms of the Screen Writers' Guild. 

Do you want me to repeat them ? 

Mr. Tamsnner. Yes ; I think you should | 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. , 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1475 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). In light of the activities which you 
have just described. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you repeat that last name, and spell it? 

Mr. RossEX. The last one was Bill Blowitz — B-1-o-w-i-t-z. 

Sidney Buchman — B-u-c-h-m-a-n. 

Richard Collins — C-o-l-l-i-n-s. 

John Howard Lawson — L-a-w-s-o-n. 

Melvin Levy — L-e-v-y. 

Joseph Mischel — M-i-s-c-h-e-1. 

Sam Moore — M-o-o-r-e. 

Meta Reis — R-e-i-s. 

Vic Shapiro — S-h-a-p-i-r-o. 

Louis Solomon — S-o-l-o-m-o-n. 

Mr. Clardy. Suppose you tell us again what that list represents. 

Mr. RossEN", This is a list of the steering committee of tlie Hollywood 
Writers' Mobilization, 1944 — the date here is 1944-45. I wouldn't be 
sure of the date. I don't know whether that is the exact date or not. 

Mr. Clardy. And the names you have read are the Communist 
members ? 

Mr. RossEN. Members of the Communist Partj^, who were on the 
steering conmiittee of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization at that 
time, or thereabouts. I can't vouch for the dates. 

Mr. Doyle. And about what percentage of the members of that 
steering committee, according to your record and word now, were 
members of the Communist Party, assuming that list is the total list 
of the steering committee, numerically ? 

Mr. RossEN. I'd say about a third — it seems — rough guess. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. Enough anyway to pretty well control actions if they 
stuck together against a divided majority ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes, except that in cases of the Hollywood Writers' 
Mobilization I can't think of any direct political action that was taken 
through the mobilization. In other words, the decisions that were 
made for its immediate purpose certainly had no relation to politics. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, aside from the question of politics, there was 
a project of tliat organization known as the Writers' Congress, which 
was held in October 1943, was it not ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was during the time you were chairman 
of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization ? 

Mr. Rossen. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization? 

Mr. Rossen. That's correct. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask there, Mr. Tavenner: It was Communist 
Party politics and caucus, wasn't it, in a sense, when they pulled you 
out as the distinguished chairman of the mobilization group ? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. That was political ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes, if you want to make that interpretation. 

Mr. Doyle. And that vitally affected the Hollywood Writers' 
Mobilization ? 

Mr. Rossen. No ; I think the men who followed were very good. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, grant that, but it was done by a Communist Party 
caucus 



1476 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Doyle. Whicli shaped the destiny of the Hollywood Writers' 
Mobilization from that point on ? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, weren't regular caucuses held by the Communist 
Party, as members, upon which courses of action would be determined 
upon and put forward and pushed through at the meetings, regard- 
less of whether it was or could now be stamped as party politics or 
not ? At least they did attempt to put f orw^ard a program and push 
it, didn't they ? 

JNTr. RossEN. Yes ; I think you could safely say "yes" to that. 

The reason it seems a little — you must understand, the mobilization 
was not a formal organization. 

Mr. Clardy. I understand. 

Mr. RossEN. You see, there was no membership in the writers' or- 
ganization as such, as you belong to the Screen Writers' Guild. You 
merely indicated that you were available — rank and file — to w^ork for 
the mobilization so that the question of a vote, for instance, could come 
up only in the steering committee. 

Mr. Moulder. When you were selected as chairman, were you known 
as a Communist, as a member of the Communist Party, by the non- 
Communist members of the steering committee ? 

Mr. Rossen. Well, I wasn't known in terms of my own admission, 
but I would say that a great many people surmised it. 

Mr. Clardy. You weren't advertising it, though? 

Mr. RossEN. No ; no. None of us were. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, with regard to this project about which we 
spoke, the Writers' Congress which was held in October 1943, did Com- 
munist Party members of the mobilization caucus pass upon any of 
the phases of that project? 

Mr. Rossen. Oh, yes ; yes. 

ISIr. Tavenner. Tell the committee briefly about that. 

Mr. RossEN. Well, the Writers' Congress was a project that was 
begun sometime — I think it was 1942. Its purpose was to get togetlier 
as many of the writing talents and creative and critical people around 
from all w\alks of — from all parts of the country, and even from other 
countries, to discuss techniques, contents of film, literature, et^cetera — 
all aimed at the role that the writer should plaj' in the war. 

Quite naturally the Communist Party was the most active in or- 
ganizing this Writers' Congress, which I, personally, felt was very 
successful and had some very good things in it. The Communist 
Party members Avere the most active. They worked hardest. They 
were dedicated toward making this a success, and we met quite regu- 
larly in terms of fraction meetings and discussed the whole program 
of the Writers' Congress, at first in a general sense and later on in a 
kind of detailed sense, in terms of what was to go int-o the various 
panels, in terms of the editing of the presentation of the thing. 

It was worked out very carefully and quite brilliantly, and the 
record will show we did have people from all over the world who 
came there, spoke, and that was done in cooperation with the Uni- 
versity of California at Los Angeles, and — but I would say it was 
primarily organized and executed by members of the Communist 
Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1477 

Mr. Ta\tnxer. And did the members of the Communist Party 
in caucus select those who were to be chairmen of the various panels? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; I think the answer to that is yes and no. Yes, 
in the sense that the Communist Party members would put themselves 
forth or forward to become chairmen. First of all, they were will- 
ing to do that kind of work and, secondly, I was chairman of the 
Hollywood Writers' Mobilization. I was a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. I knew whether or not some of these men were or were 
not members of the Communist Party. I knew whether or not they 
were good workers and responsible people; and so, when this was 
brought to me, in terms of the chairman, of saying, ''Pick this com- 
mittee," in whatever decisions I — I had — well, naturally, I would 
pick the chairman who was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenxer. I hand you a list of the committees of the Writers' 
Congress, and I will ask you to name the chairmen of the various 
committees or panels who were members, and known to you to be 
members, of the Communist Party. 

Mr. RossEx. Now, you want me to repeat again ? 

Mr. Tavexner. Yes ; I would like for you to repeat again a name, 
even if mentioned prior to this. 

Mr. Rossen. You are now talking in terms of chairmen? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes; speak now of the chairmen, those who were 
chairmen, of the various panels, giving the name of the panel and 
the name of the chairman, if he is a member of the Communist Party, 
to your knowledge. 

Mr. Rossex. All right. 

We come to the first panel — a panel on minority groups — Ring 
Lardner, Jr., a member of the Communist Party. 

The second one was problems of the peace. The chairman was 
Melvin Levy. He was a member of the party. 

Nature of the enemy — John Wexley, member of the party. 

Mr. Clardy. Would you spell that? 

Mr. RossEx\ W-e-x-1-e-y. 

Mr. Ta\t:x'n^er. Will you again check those you name, please? 

Mr. Rossex. I am doing that. 

Propaganda analysis — not to my knowledge. 

American scene. I was chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Say that again. 

Mr. Rossex. American scene — s-c-e-n-e. I was the chairman of 
that. 

Mr. Clardy. What did you say about the one preceding that? 

Mr. RossEX". I have no knowledge about whether or not the chair- 



man 

Mr. Clardy. I see. 

Mr. Rossex (continuing). Was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. I thought that is what you meant, but it was a little 
vague. 

Mr. RossEx^ Pan-American affairs — Louis Solomon, a member of 
the party. 

Feature film — Richard Collins was a member of the party. 

Training films — Bernard Vorhaus. 

Mr. Clardy. You better spell it. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Sj)ell it, please. 



1478 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. RossEN. V-0-r-h-a-ii-s. 

Mr. Clardy. What is that first letter? V? 

Mr. RossEN. V. 

Mr. Clardy. V as in victory? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Joseph Mischel — M-i-s-c-h-e-1, 

Mr. Clardy. That is which one ? 

Mr. RossEN. Writers in exile. 

Humor and the war — Stanley Roberts. 

Those are the chairmen of the various panels. 

Mr. Clardy. How many did they miss out on? 

Mr. Tavenner. If you will let me ask a question first 

Mr. Clardy. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe thaL" will be more applicable. 

Who was the chairman of the panel on documentary films? 

Mr. RossEN. J oris Ivens. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him to be a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, of your own knowledge? 

Mr. RossEN. Not of my own knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, he has been identified by testimony 
of other 

Mr. Clardy. Is that I-v-e-n-s ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; the first name is J-o-r-i-s. 

Who was chairman of the panel entitled "Songwriting in War" ? 

Mr. RossEN. Earl Robinson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Rossen. Not of my own direct knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. He has been identified by testimony before the 
committee, Mr. Chairman. 

Who was chairman of the panel on arrangements? 

Mr. RossEN. Committee on arrangements. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think he was also treasurer of the conference. 

Mr. Rossen. Francis Faragoh. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. RossEN. I can't make an identification of Francis Faragoh as a 
member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time 

Mr. Clardy. What was that name again ? 

Mv. RossEN. Francis Faragoh. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please? 

Mr. RossEN. F-a-r-a-g-o-h. 

Mr. Tavenner. Francis is F-r-a-n-c-i-s, isn't it? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes; it is F-r-a-n-c-i-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify him as having attended fractions 
of the Communist Party 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; he's 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Or meetings? 

Mr. R )SSEN. He attended fractions of the Communist Party meet- 
ing, but in all of the discussions I ever heard — it's always the impres- 
sion of myself and other people that he was not a member of the 
Communist Party. As a matter of fact, we wondered why he wasn't, 
but lie was not, to the best of my knowledge. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1479 

Mr. Tavenner. But he attended the meetings ? 

Mr. RossEN. Various fraction meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he take part in a business or discussion of the 
meetings ? 

Mr. liossEN. Yes ; on specific issues, yes. 

Mr. Clardy. His name was brought into the 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Faragoh has been identified by several wit- 
nesses as a member. 

Mr. Clardy. Most recently. 

Mr. Tavenner. He took advantage of the fifth amendment when 
called upon to testify. 

Mr. Clardy. Most recently at the Los Angeles hearing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And, now, let me check on that. Let's see how many 
of those were not controlled by Communists, either identified by you 
or the committee. 

Mr. RossEN. Well, I don't know the names you have read off. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, how many were controlled by Communists by 
your count there ? 

Mr. RossEN. Nine here. 

Mr. Tavenner. And  

Mr. Clardy. And we have named three. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). I have named Ivens, Robinson, and 
Faragoh. 

That would make 12. 

Mr. Doyle. Twelve out of how many committees ? 

Mr. Rossen. Twelve out of twenty-one. 

Mr. Clardy. Twelve out of twenty-one. 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And some of the others you know nothing about? 

Mr. Rossen. No ; not to my own knowledge. 

Mr. Tavi^nner. There appears on this record the names of those 
who were members of the advisory committee and a general com- 
mittee, as well as those who took part in the panels. Will you exam- 
ine those hurriedly, please, and see if you can identify the names of 
other persons known to you to have been members of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Rossen. Names that I have not 

Mr. Tavenner. That you have not^ mentioned. That is, that you 
have not mentioned in connection with the Writers' Congress. 

Mr. Rossen. You want me to also 

You are talking now purely about the advisory committee? 

Mr. Tavenner. No; all of the other committees 

Mr. Rossen. Including the panels? 

Mr. Tavenner (contiiuiing). Including the panels, themselves. 

Mr. Rossen. Well, there is Edward Dmytryk— D-m-y-t-r-y-k. 

Mr. Clardy. What was the first name ? 

Mr. Rossen. Edward. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dmytryk was one of the early witnesses who 
testified before this committee in connection with our hearings in 
Hollywood niul was one of the 10 who was convicted of contempt 
as a result of his refusal to testify in 1917. 

Do you recall Avhat he said in his testimony about the effect or the 
part that this conference played in his joining the Communist Party? 



1480 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. RossEN. No ; not specifically — rather vaguely. I know lie made 
some reference to it, but I just 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you 

Mr. RossEN. He made some reference in terms of the fact that was 
one of the things — his admiration for the way it was organized, 
for what was being said — one of the things that brought him into the 
party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes 

Mr. RossEN. I don't remember 

Mr. Tavenner. That is, in substance, what his testimony was, 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Then, we go to Frank Tuttle — T-u-t-t-1-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was a director, was he not ? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And he came voluntarily from Europe to testify 
before the committee when his name appeared in connection with 
these matters. 

Mr. Clardy. That was in 1951? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. RossEN. Then 

Mr. Doyle. You mean he came clear from Europe to help the com- 
mittee in its investigation ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; he was one of the early men to testify. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, didn't he plead the amendments of the Constitu- 
tion then, anyway ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; he made a very strong argument as to why he 
was not pleading the fifth amendment. 

Mr. RossEN. Dan James — J-a-m-e-s. 

Ben Barzman — B-a-r-z-m-a-n. 

Paul Trivers — T-r-i-v-e-r-s. 

Guy Enclore — E-n-d-o-r-e. 

Waldo Salt— S-a-l-t. 

Leo Townsend — To-w-n-s-e-n-d. 

I am not repeating any of the names I previously mentioned. 

Ian Hunter — H-u-n-t-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name Salt? 

Mr. RossEN. S-a-l-t. 

Mr. Clardy. I wondered if that was correct or it was the name we 
heard yesterday with a "z" in it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't think so. 

Mr. Clardy. Not the same one. 

Mr. RossEN. Plenry Blankfort, Jr. — B-1-a-n-k-f-o-r-t. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What do you mean — Henry 

Mr. RossEN. Well, there was another Blankfort. I just want to be 
sure. I see this is Henry Blankfort. 

Mr. Tavenner. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Rossen. Georgia Backus — B-a-c-k-u-s. 

Lou Harris — H-a-r-r-i-s. 

Mr. Clardy. By the way, are these all the names by which they 
were publicly known ? 

(Mr. Rossen responded by nodding his head.) 

Mr. Clardy. Your answer is "Yes" ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1481 

Fred Rinaldo — R-i-n-a-1-d-o. 

Hy Kraft— K-r-a-f-t. 

Mr. Clakdy. Hy? 

Mr. RossEN. Hy — Hy. 

INIr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not that is an abbrevia- 
tion of his first name ? 

Mr. RossEN. I don't know. I've always known him as Hy. 

Adrian Scott — S-c-o-t-t. 

Harold Buchman — B-u-c-h-m-a-n. 

I think that about does it, as far as my own direct knowledge is 
concerned. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you this: Did you become ac- 
quainted with Earl Browder ? 

Mr. RossEN. I met Earl Browder several times, but I met him — I 
don't think more than several times — by "several" I mean 2 or 3 — 
but I met him in Hollywood in — somewhere in the early part of the 
forties. It might be 1942 or 1943. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. I have previously referred to a person by the name 
of Max Silver as a high functionary in the Communist Party in Los 
Angeles County. Were you acquainted with him ? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of the testimony of Mr. Max 
Silver on January 22, 1952, Mr. Silver testified as follows, regarding 
the advice that Mr. Browder had given regarding the operation of 
the Communist Party in Hollywood : 

Browder used to toll Hollywood, "Wo are loss intorosted in a film that lias 
Communist content, where a few hundred people will come and sof* it. We are 
more interested in an ordinary John and Alary picture, in which there is only a 
drop of progressive thought in it." 

So, therefore the approach must not be that the party wanted to take Holly- 
wood by the throat and change the content. The party understood that Holly- 
wood is a cultural center and has very prominent people there, people who write, 
who go to Washington, who go to New York — if you inliuence their thinking, 
their product will be somewhat different. We are going to have a dilferent 
product. 

And then Mr. Silver continued and said : 

Of course, along with that comes the party organization, with all its maneuvers 
of placing itself in a position where it can make decisions for the organization. 

Now, do you recall having been present at any time when Earl 
Browder discussed the objectives of the Communist Party, from the 
Communist Party standpoint, in Hollywood? 

Mr. RnssEN. Yes; I — I recall that at one meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall who attended tliat meeting? 

Mr. RossEN. To the best of my recollection, there was Browder; 
I tliink Silver was there — I'm not quite sure; I know another func- 
tionary in Los Angeles was there, besides Browder — John Howard 
Lawson, myself, and Sidney Buchman. 

We met somewhere in Los Angeles — I don't remember the place — 
and we discussed — rather, Browder discussed — we didn't; we just 
listened. 

In substance, what Browder — what Silver claims Browder said, 
M'ith some minor corrections — I don't quite think that is accurate, all 
the way down. I can remember Browder saying that the important 
thing that — it was a very bad thing to heavily weigh pictures with 



1482 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

propafjanda, which is an instance — wliat Silver reports him as saying. 
Well, as a matter of fact, this wonld be imj^ossible in Hollywood, any- 
M ay— that it was more important to nse the formnla kind of motion 
pictnres which the average andience wonld understand. He particu- 
larly referred to cowboy formula at that time. 

Impersonally, thought it was all very fininy, and even — even at that 
time — because I thought at that time it indicated something that 
Browder probably never thought he had, but I thought he had, by 
that statement, because I thought he was talking about the audience 
being pretty literate. There wasn't very much respect for the audi- 
ence — the fact that you were asked to do things in the most eleuiental 
and primitive terms. However, he did speak about the fact it was 
necessary for writers — tying up this particular thesis — it was neces- 
sary for writers to write successful films so that their ]>restige could 
be increased and, therefore, their value to the ]^arty be increased. 

In terms of the content, which was the last part of that statement — 
the indication, therefore, they would increase it in content — that is, 
the content being increased — T think that was moi^e a hope on Brow- 
der's part of a long-range project than it was a reality, because I don't 
think he expected it, and I don't actually remember him saying that 
part of it. 

Mr. Clardy. Did he, however, convey the impression that he thought 
there should be at least a drop or two of Communist poison in each of 
the products ? 

Mr. RossEN. I don't remember him saying that. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, how did he phrase it? 

Mr. RossEN. I think, as my recollection — I think he talked pri- 
marily of the prestige of the writer — the fact it was very important 
for a Conmiunist to be the best in his field, to increase his prestige to 
such a degree that he would be respected as a craftsman in his own 
industry; and we very seriously discussed that. 

Mr. Clardy. Wasn't that so he might be placed in a better position 
to further the Communist ends? 

Mr. RossEJf. Certainly. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, you said a moment ago he said it shouldn't be 
loaded down with Communist propaganda. You at least agreed with 
that part of the statement, as I understood it. 

Mr. RossEN^. Yes. 

Well, there's always the question — there's always the question of 
what was known in terms — in party terms — as sectarianism — in other 
words, where you presented the argument so one-sidedly in its most 
black and white terms that nobody Avould quite accept, but in terms of 
actual propaganda in film I cannot remember him saying that; and, 
too, I don't think it would have been possible. 

Mr. Clardy. Xo ; no. You misunderstood me. 

Mr. RossEX. Well 

Mr. Clardy. Was it not his intention to get across to you the idea 
that you should not make it so blatant but that you should be more 
subtle and careful and not defeat your own end? 

Mr. RossEx. I'm really trying to answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. 

Mr. RossEN. I am just trying 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1483 

Mr. Clardy. I want your recollection as to what he was trying to 
get across. 

Mr. RossEX. I just cannot recall any of the facts of the discussion 
in terms of tlie — in terms of the content of the film. 

Mr. Clardy. I see. 

Mr. RossEN. I can recall vei-y specifically the necessity — the obliga- 
tion and the necessity — of a Communist Party member to become the 
besi in his field, if he could; to study, to engage in craft discussions; 
for one Communist to help another, in terms of craft discussions, in 
terms of making them into better screen writers, so that, naturally, 
the prestige of the party — of these particular members — would have 
to be enlianced, and more people, as they began to know these were 
members of the party, would come into the party. 

Mr. SCHERER. Not 

Mr. Claroy. I see. A recruiting method, as much as anything else. 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; and also — also in terms of the method of using 
your name — the prestige you carried in terms of whatever specific 
movement was being carried on. 

iMr. Clardy. You would be the sugar that would attract the flies, 
in other words? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. SciiERER. Well, the eventual objection of the Communist Party 
perhaps was, as you started to indicate, a long-range objective, and 
these were necessary preliminary steps, were they not ? 

Mr. RossEN. Oh, yes. I mean it's 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean 

Mr. RossEN. You couldn't 



INIr. kSciierer (continuing). You couldn't hope to influence the film 
at that early date, could you ? 

Mr. Rossen. No ; I don't think so. 

Mr. Clardv. They wanted to build you up. 
' Mr. Scherer. The eventual objective was perhaps to influence the 
films? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes ; it would have to be. 

IVlr. Scherer. A long-range objective? 

Mr. Rossen. Certainly. It is a partisan point of view. It is a 
point of view of impressing upon people your own point of view, and 
you use whatever means you can and are available to you at a given 
moment, and that you can do. 

Mv. Scherer. Well, if more people in this movie industry as a whole 
became members of the party, then at that time it would be much 
easier or at a later date it would be much easier to foster the objectives 
in {he })arty? 

Mr. Rossen. I think that was the hope. 

IVfr. ScTiERER. Tliat was the hope? 

Mr. Rossen. I don't think it would have happened that way. 

Mr. Scherer. You don't think it would? 

Mv. Rossen. Not with the structure of the industry as I knew it. 
I think you would have to go nnich further, you know, but in a sense, 
when you talk about propaganda, you have to understand — you don't 
have to be told in terms of putting things into a picture. 

Nobody can come to you — maybe they did — I don't recall anybody 
coming and saying, "Put this in a picture," or "Express this idea," 
et cetera. 



1484 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

However, if you are a Marxist, you think like a Marxist. 
Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that the pictures you do are not 
good pictures 

Mr. SCHEREK. No. 

Mr. EossEN (continuing). Or good causes, but you will take the 
approach which the Communist Party and yourself hope is a good 
Marxist position. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, that is the long-range objective? 

Mr. RossEN. Oh, yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. If you have enough screen writers who are thoroughly 
indoctrinated and thoroughly sold on the Marxist or Communist 
theory, or Communist Party line, that eventually would be an inevi- 
table result, wouldn't it? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes ; within the limits they had to work in. 

Mr. Clardy. The general idea being tlie greater your reputation, 
the greater your influence would be, and the greater results would flow 
from whatever you might do to aid the party cause ? 

Mr. RossEN. That's quite correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't that the reason why they bring teachers and 
ministers, as well as people in the movie industry 

Mr. RossEN. Now, I 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). Into their circles? 

Mr. RossEN. I really wouldn't know. You know I have no knowl- 
edge on that subject. 

Mr. Clardy. That at least is one of the reasons they bring people 
who travel in your circle in it ? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes ; from my own direct knowledge I know that. 

Mr. ScHERER. This is a little far afield from what we have been 
discussing, but you touched on it at the beginning of your testimony : 
I was interested to knoAv whether you have made a study of the recent 
friendly overtures upon the part of the Russian or Soviet Govern- 
ment toward the Arab States and their rather unfriendly acts toward 
Israel. 

Mr. RossEN. Well, I thought I had — I supposed I rambled a little, 
but I think that is part of the general picture I was trying to project. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, then 

Mr. RossEN. In other words, the support of Israel during the 
period — during the period in which it was to the interests of the 
Soviet Government, it was in favor of Israel ; but when it no longer 
became — when Israel went over into the western democracies, then 
the Soviet Union's policy was to support the Arabs. 

Mr. ScHERER. Has anything in your reading or study indicated 
that the Russians are supporting the Arabs in opposition to Israel 
today because of Arabian oil? 

Mr. RossEN. No; I honestly haven't come across anything specific 
that I can talk about on the subject. It's a general — in terms of their 
vote in the U. N., et cetera, in terms of supporting certain measures — 
but in terms of my own specific knowledge, I wouldn't have that. 

Mr. ScHERER. That would be again the Russians taldng a stand 
not on principle 

Mr. RossEN. On expedience. 

Mr. ScHERER (continuing). But on their own self-interests? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1485 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you one more question about the matter 
of the Browder conference. 

Mr. RossEN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenxer. You stated, in your judgment, it was the hope of 
Browder that by indoctrination, the proper type of indoctrination, of 
screen writers that they might influence the product. If that was 
his hope, woukl you not say, then, that was one of the objects as far 
as Browder and the Communist Party were concerned in spending so 
much time and effort in organizing the Communist Party within the 
industry'^ 

Mr. EossEX, Oh, I think it was one of the uhimate objectives. I 
just think, you know — — 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. 

Mr. RossEX (continuing). The industry is so set up that it made it 
tJiat much more diiiicuk ; that is alh 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, you spoke of another objective of a more 
practical nature — of at least a more immediate nature — that of the 
prestige that the Communist Party would gain and the power that it 
v>'ould necessarily gain by its members being efficient and having 
attained names of prominence. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, at this point we will call a 5-minute recess. 

(Whereupon, at 4: 45 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 4: 50 p.m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 4 : 55 p. m., the following committee 
members being present : Representatives Harold H. Velde (chairman), 
Kit Clardy, ]\Iorgan M. Moulder, and Clyde Doyle.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavexxer. ]Mr. Rossen, you were just at the point of describing 
the practical importance of members of the Communist Party within 
the screen-writing group to gain such prestige as you could for the 
benefit of the party. 

(Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. TA^^xxER (continuing). Now, was there any device used or 
resorted to by the Communist Party which would increase the prestige 
of writers generally in line with the matter you have been talking 
about ( 

Mr. RossEX. It was done on two levels. The first level was the 
schools whicli were open to noii])arty people; but within the ]>arty 
itself we had in Hollywood what was known as the writers' clinic. 

Mr. Tavexxer. The writers' clinic. 

Mr. Rossex. There was 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, was that a group of Communist Party 
writers ? 

Mr. RossEN. Only Communist Party writers 

Mr. Tavexxer. Only Communist Party writers. 

Mr. RossEX (continuing). In our Communist Part}- group, which 
was called together — 1 don't remember the dates of it. It was called 
together for the purpose of helping other Communists become better 
screenwriters; for the purpose of the older and more experienced 
screenwriters, who would naturally take the leadeisliip in this — scripts 
were brought there, analyzed, and mostly in relation to craft prob- 



1486 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

lems, and it was felt by discussion between — of this various frroup of 
people in the party that the Communist Party members would become 
helped to become better screenwriters, and thus in theii' own work 
would get more prestige and would follow out on the theory that the 
Communist Party had the most attractive, the most able, the most 
intelligent, the most resourceful people, and would therefore draw to 
the Communist Party more people than they ordinarily would j and 
tied up with the fact of prestige is also a financial question which — 
as people get more prestige and become better known they also earn 
more money, and as they earn more money, pay more dues. But I 
think that, in substance, was the nature of the writers' clinic. 

Mr. Tavenner. It assured inexperienced writers within the Com- 
munist Party of being able to compete with non-Connnunist Avriters'? 

Mr. liossEX. Yes, sir; yes, indeed. That's right. It equipped them 
in terms of the competition of the industry. 

Mr. Tavenner. It also would have atforded the opportunity of the 
leaders, who may have been more thoroughly indoctrinated in Marx- 
ism, to exercise their iiitluence upon the younger members^ 

Mr. RossEN. Oh, unquestionably, unquestionably. No Communist 
Party meeting could ever be held on an isolated — in an isolated sense.. 
The point is : When you went to a Communist Party meeting and you 
discussed technique, inevitably — inevitably — the political question, in 
terms of your Marxist understanding, would have to come into play. 
So discussion — remember, there is such a thing as Marxist 
criticism • 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Rossen (continuing). And the discussion is always based on 
a Marxist point of view. It doesn't follow that particular script is 
going to be made into a picture, but it does follow the younger writers 
would naturally be very impressed and would follow the lead of the 
older and more successful and more experienced writers ; and we gave 
a lot of time to it — a great deal of time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Now, let me ask you this : You have advised 
the committee that you spent in money or that you paid into the 
Communist Party for Communist Party purposes as mucli as it^4(),000 
during the 10 years that you were a member of the Communist Party. 
From this description you have given us you must have done a great 
deal of work. Will you give the committee some idea what your 
Conununist Party membership required of you? 

Mr. ItossEN. Well, it doesn't only add u]) to work; it adds up to — 
I mean money — it adds up to work, and the amount of time you give. 
For instance, when I was chairman of the mobilization,^ I might at- 
tend four meetings on just mobilization work a week, in addition to my 
party meetings. I would also attend fraction meetings; luncheons. 

I was very deeply involved, and I would say a good deal of my time 
was spent between the studio and my life in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Weren't you paid any salary by the Communist Party 
at this time ? 

Mr. Scherer. Salary? 

Mr. E.OSSEN. Not unless I paid it myself ; no. I'm afraid I wasn't. 

Of course, I — you know, I believed in what I was doing, and believed 



^ Hollywood Writers' Mobilization. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1487 

very hard, and I felt this belief should be carried out, both in terms 
of the amoiuit of money I spent and the amount of time I gave. 

(Kepresentative James h. Frazier, Jr., entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. KossEN (continuino-). I imagine that's the way I felt about it 
at that time, and felt very hard. 

Mr. Tavennj:r. Well, now, as a result of your experience, did you 
change your views with regard to the Communist Party being the 
medium through which you could accomplish or should attempt to 
accomplish the ideals wdiich you have described^ 

Mr. KossEN. I actually changed my views a great many years ago. 
Getting out of the party, as I tried to state earlier, is no process of 
suddenly making a decision and saying, "On January 5, so-and-so 
and so-and-so; I am going to get out of the party." You don't. The 
first — first of all, there is a reluctance to give up what you have put so 
much effort and belief in ; but, as you begin to see certain things de- 
velop in front of your eyes, in terms of your experience, you begin, 
in a sense, to move away from it; you begin to withdraw from cer- 
tain activities; you begin, in a sense, to stop paying dues. 

Now, for instance in the terms of tlie prestige of writers — well, 
there's nothing wrong, is there, aside — if you isolate it for a minute — 
from the point of view of the Connnunist Party — notjiing wrong in 
one man helping another man to become a better screenwriter? 

As a matter of fact, I would like to see that kind of thing done on 
a broad scale. I think it would be very excellent. I think the Screen 
Writers' Guild might do it. 

However, let's take the history of a great many people in terms of 
prestige. Now, a man becomes a better screenwriter. His prestige 
enhances the party. He becomes important to the party. 

Now, at that point the party is no longer really and truly interested 
in this man as a writer or as a creative artist. They're interested in 
his functions or in his functioning as a member of the Communist 
Party. They're interested in how many meeting he goes to; to how 
many organizations does be belong. 

And then when he cries out and says, "I want to be a writer ; I want 
to continue with my work" — at this point they have very — he finds 
very short, swift — and I have seen many writers in my time destroyed 
by the very thing — sort of — I don't know — sort of like eating your- 
self, because they no longer had time for writing. 

'J'he Connnunist Party made great demands on their time, and when 
a man said, ''Basically I am — you know, I came in because I am a 
writer; I Avant to be a better writer; I want to be a better Marxist 
writer," or call it whatever you will — Avhere at this ))oint the Com- 
munist Party position says, "Oh, no; now you are a Connnunist; you 
will accept Connnunist Party discipline; you will go to meetings; you 
will go to functions." 

In other Mords, you now are made into what I consider, a cliche 
word, by this time, a party hack, and now the party is no longer in- 
terested in your creative development. 

The ]\Ialtz ^ controversy, which has been talked about at great length 
at hearings of this connuittee since IDHf , basically stems out of that in- 
ability on the i)art of ^Nlaltz to find time for himself, to find the in- 
terest in him as a creative writer. 



' Albert Maltz. 



1488 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

The excessive demands made upon Maltz and upon his time — I sat 
in a meeting, 1943, somewhere in or about, which is way before the 
Maltz controversy, at which this thing was hammered out and at 
which Mahz was told his first function was to be a Communist; and 
I believe, without — this is surmise on my part, but I believe that 
Maltz letter of protest at the kind of writing that was being done by 
Communists — you remember the whole Maltz controversy actually 
grew out of this basic feeling that he was being used and that the 
party no longer really cared in terms of his creative ability for 
growth, and I think this was a common thing, in my experience in 
the party, and naturally you began to see all of these things in differ- 
ent lights ; you began to get the feeling that, in a sense, where you al- 
ways felt you were using people, you know, trying to convert them, 
and so forth. You began to suddenly see you were being used ; that 
the party respect for you, the party veneration of the masses, which 
is a wonderful word — its so-called feeling for the masses, for people — 
somehow or other never really expressed itself in terms of its feeling 
for the individual. There was quite a separation between the word 
"masses" and the word "person" and that — it didn't equate itself at 
all. 

I always felt, for instance, that — I felt for a long time — not always 
would not be true — I felt, for instance, the Communist Party of the 
United States did not really belong to the American scene. 

Now, I didn't base that on anything 1 knew. I didn't base that 
on whether I knew they were operating in terms of the Cominform, 
and what have you. 1 based it on the kind of writing you read in the 
party press during those days. The words that were used; the ex- 
pressions — all of it was foreign to the American — to the understanding 
of the American people. It was almost like Russian being translated 
actually. I also felt that — as I went on in the party, I felt that the 
American people obviously, even expressing it in a purely political 
sense, didn't want the Communist Party. 

The Communist Party was on the ballot in many States. People ran 
for office in the Communist Party. People had a chance to vote — 
democratic process. They didn't vote very many in. 

Obviously the average man, the man who walks in to ballot, didn't 
want — didn't really want — it and you began to feel there was this 
tremendous separation between — this was not a movement that origi- 
nated out of the American people and that the American people 
wanted. 

Then, of course, when you get to the great Duclos situation 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let me interrupt you there a moment. I am 
very much interested in your statement that a person would be built 
up so that the Communist Party could have the benefit of his prestige, 
but after the period had been reached when the prestige had been 
accomplished or acquired he was then, instead of being helped indi- 
vidually, to be converted, as I understand your testimony, as an in- 
strument purely for the benefit of the party. 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; I accept 

Mr. TAAT5NNER. I dou't kuow whether I have stated that correctly. 

Mr. RossEN. Yes, except for the — in terms of the work; actually, in 
terms of the action — in other words, the demands made upon the man 
was such that he was given a sense of guilt if he couldn't fulfill 



COIVIMUNIST ACTR'ITIES JX THE NEW YORK AREA 1489 

them — lie was being a bad party member — the fact of his own creative 
growth, his own personal relationships, were completely ignored. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question right there : Do I understand 
your ultimate conclusion, then, at that point is that the individual — 
his spirit, mind, and body, his personality, his character, everything 
about him, mentally, morally, and spiritually, is absorbed for the 
purposes of the Communist Party rather than for his further indi- 
vidual progress or achievement in whatever his line may be? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, it's absorbed or he goes into a process of re- 
bellion, which may take a period of years to ultimately express, and 
maybe he doesn't express it even today, because that's a very long 
period — call it a period of disassociating yourself from that kind 
of thing; but unquestionably it's absorbed. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank j^ou. 

Excuse me. 

Mr. Taat.nxer. Yes. 

Well, I think you have made that point clear. 

Now, if you will proceed — you were speaking of the Duclos letter. 

Mr. Rossen. Well, now. if anybody wanted any manifestation of 
the bankruptcy. Communist Party thinking, especially in terms of the 
United States and its real dependence on what they got directly or 
what they read in the press — I have no direct way of knowing, but 
you had the Duclos letter. If you remember, we had a policy in the 
United States based on the thesis that capitalism and communism 
could coexist. It led to the formation of what was known as the 
Communist Political Association which was no longer to be a closed 
thing. 

Now, suddenly a letter appeared in France by Duclos. The very 
people that we had been led to believe for j^ears were the paragons of 
wisdom, the people in whom all Marxism reposed and could answer 
all the questions now had been wrong for their whole existence in the 
party. 

Take, for instance, the example of Earl Browder, who 1 week pre- 
vious to that — my God, I mean, the veneration of this man was 
tremendous. 

Mr. DoYLE. That was in April of 1945? 

Mr. RossEN. Somewhere in there. I don't remember the exact 
date. 

Suddenly, all of his work, everythmg, was completely destroyed. 

Now, it certainly could not have been based on the thiiiking of the 
American Communist Part}^ as such. I mean one would have to be a 
fool to think so. 

So that actually the — it was another example of not only the — it 
was another example of the cynicism, the deep cynicism, of the Com- 
munist Party as I knew it; and with that Duclos letter — I mean, it's 
hard to say these are all cumulative steps, I suppose, but with the 
Duclos letter I pretty nnicli made up my mind. In other words, I was 
ready at that point to start away, to move away, from the party, 
definitely. 

I had tried to do it by moving away from Hollywood in 1044. I 
had done nothing for a year. I was very disturbed by a great many 
things that were going on in the party, and my own work. I moved 
awa}^ from Hollywood and came here. 



1490 COMMUNIST ACTR^TIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. AVere those things that went on in the party of a 
dictatorial nature? 

Mr. RossEN. Not in rehition to myself at the time, I don't think 
so. Nobody ever tried to tell me Avhat to write, or what to do. What- 
ever the reason is another story, but nobody ever came to me and said, 
"This is what you write," or "This is what you do." 

I thinlc it was much more in relation to my part}' work, and a — 
in an attempt almost — the point I made before — attempt to almost 
make me into a functionary, in a sense, you know 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. RossEN. Caused me to leave Hollywood, and I stayed here in 
New York for a year. 

I came back, 1 think, right after the Duclos letter — oh, within a 
month or so — and 1 began to start to move — I think I stopped paying 
dues somewhere around 1946, because I — not only do I remember it, 
but I remember the testimony of Collins,^ who claimed there was a big 
discussion as to whether or not they ought to throw me out or collect 
the dues, or whatever it was; and I honestly think that by 1947 I was 
out of the party. 

Now, I cannot really pinpoint dates to that extent, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

]\Ir. RossEN. It is a very difficult thing to do. 

I believe if I hadn't been subpenaed in 1947 I would have gone 
even further away from the party. The sub})ena brought me baclc in 
the end of 1947 to an activity specifically related to that committee and 
to the fight of the Hollywood Ten which, you may know, was originally 
the Hollywood Nineteen. I was one of the 19 who were subpenaed in 
1947. 

'Wliatever meetings I might have attended after that I'm pretty 
sure were in direct relation to this specific problem, but I know by 
the end of 1947, somewhere in, around there, I was out — and I was 
out very, very completely. 

And this doesn't mean, you know, I still don't contribute money 
to certain things I believe in. 

For instance, I contributed, I think, to the Wallace campaign. 
AVell, I thought it was a pretty good idea to have a third party in 
tliis country, and one doesn't go — at least, I don't, or I can't — I can't 
change — to go from being a member of the extreme left to being 
a member of the extreme right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, this conmiittee is in no way interested 
in tlie question 

A[r. Rossen. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Of- 



Mr. Rossen. I was just expressing an opinion 

]Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Of ])olitical opinions and beliefs. 

Mr. Rossen (continuing). And I m sorry I brought that up. 
But it seems to me, in trying to think through it — you know, 
what I can offer— it seems to me that— I still feel that many of the 
reasons that I had were right. I feel very strongly that the Com- 
munist Party can never be the instrument "to get or effect those rea- 
sons, or make them work. 

I don't think that the slogan "Communism Is Twentieth Century 
Democracy" was true at that time, Avhen it was first projected, and | 

1 Richard Collins. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1491 

it's certainly by this time — should be — pretty thoroughly discredited. 
I don't see how anyone can still believe it, but 1 believed very firmly 
in a promise of democracy. 

What this country really can become is still somethin<^ to be be- 
lieved in very firmly, very strongly, with great conviction, and those 
who are opposed to that democracy must be — well, I'm trying to 
fish for words — they're pretty hard on this subject — well, in other 
words, Avhat I am trying to say is that I think we ought to have a 
feeling today — I wouldn't like to see young people today believe what 
I believed in. I wouldn't like to have them feel there is no growth 
left in this country; there are no horizons; we have reached our apex, 
and that it's a dead society. It's not a dead society. It's a young 
society; it's a growing society; it's a healthy society. It needs a lot 
of corrections, of course, and all societies do; but it needs the cor- 
rections and can get the corrections and realize its hope only in 
terms of the system of government that's been devised. 

That's my feeling. 

Mr. Tavenner. To express it another way, you would feel at this 
time that your views, whether liberal or not, could be accomplished 
^md worked for by 3^ou outside of the Communist Party? 

Mr, KossEN. Very definitely. 

Mr. Clardy. But not inside? 

Mr. RossEN. No; I don't believe the Communist Party has any 
part — any role — to play. 

Mr. Clardy. Except destructive? 

Mr. RossEN. And I am looking for constructive. 

Mr. Tavexner. An interesting thing has occurred in your case. 
You ai)peared before this committee and resorted to the use of the 
fifth amendment as a reason for not giving the committee the infor- 
mation at that time which you possessed. Do you have any feeling 
now that having done so you are subjecting yourself to criminal 
prosecution ? 

Mr. Rossen. Now? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Rossen. At this time? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Rossen. No ; I haven't got that feeling at all. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Counsel, can it be put a little more directlv than 
that? 

As a matter of fact, you raised the fifth amendment, which obvi- 
ously was intended to convey to you the impression that you thought 
that if you didn't raise it you might be incriminating yourself. Now, 
you have come forth and made a clear statement of the things you 
could have testified to at that time 

Mr. Rossen. Correct. 

Mr. CrAKDY (continuing). And the committee at least sees — and I 
am sure you nuist see — that there is nothing in your story that could 
tiien or now in any way possibly incriminate you. 

Do you not agree that is a fact ? 

Mr. Rossen. No: I don't think so. I don't think you can be in- 
criminated if you tell the truth. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I had in mind, and had 3'ou at that 
time 



1492 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. RossEN. Well, I have to talk- 



Mr. Clardy (continuing). Been as far away from that persuasion 
that got you over into left field as you are now, and if you had not 
raised the fifth amendment, you would not have been in jeopardy at 
all, would you? 

Mr. RossEN. No ; not in terms of my own personal self. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. 

Mr, RossEN. I can only say that in terms of my own self personally. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I am talking about. 

So, those who raise the screen of the fifth amendment are really 
erecting a bogeyman that has nothing behind it whatsoever 

Mr. RossEN. I think so. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). So far as you can see it; is that true? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right, 

Mr. Velde. I would like to say for the record at this point in my 
knowledge of the committee's activities there has never been any wit- 
ness brought before the committee who has ever been incriminated 
in any way if he answered the questions put to him and answered them 
truthfully. 

Mr, Clardy. There's never been a prosecution of such a witness at 
any time, 

Mr, Velde, Even resulting from the committee hearings, 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I mean. 

Mr, Tavenner. I have not asked you the many questions I asked 
you when you appeared before regarding your participation in Com- 
munist-front activities and, because of the lateness of the hour, I am 
not going to do it now, except in this very general way : You have 
spoken of the great effort that was made in increasing the prestige 
of writers so that they would be in a position to do the bidding of 
the party. Did participation in Communist-front or mass organiza- 
tions constitute a part of the bidding of the party? 

Mr, RossEN. Oh, yes ; unquestionably. The use of names on various 
boards — the degree of their prestige was the degree to which you could 
attract more people to it. 

Mr. Ta\tenner, Yes, 

Now, just state briefly to the committee, if you will, what the im- 
portance of the Communist-front organization is in the Communist 
scheme of things, 

Mr, RossEN, Well, the basic importance — I'll try to state it as briefly 
as I can — that it projects the Communist Part}- — whatever the possi- 
ble line at that time — that organization is a means and a conveyance 
of projecting it outside of the Communist Party membership itself. 
It attracts large people, and to the degree that the people who serve 
on these organizations are people of prestige — to that degree does 
it attract people who believe in it. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that the ultimate purpose of the Communist 
Party organization is to increase its power 

Mr. Rossen. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Ta\t^nner (continuing). By recruiting and by extension of 
the Communist Party principles? 

Mr. Rossen. By influencing it. By influencing. 

Mr. MouLDrR. As an example of that, doesn't Paul Robeson serve 
as an example of the point you tried to make? Do you think he has 
been exploited in tluit manner • 



COMMUNIST ACTR'ITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1493 



Mr. RossEN-. Well- 



Mr. Moulder (continuing). To attract tlie colored people ? 

Mr. RossEN. I can't speak for Robeson, but naturally Robeson's 
prestige was a very great prestige, or was at a certain time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you have given us the names of persons who 
were involved in particular functions, which are of importance to the 
committee. I would like now to ask j^ou about a number of other 
people. 

Were you acqiiainted with Henry Meyers — M-e-y-e-r-s ? 

Mr. RossEN. 1 es ; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Rossen. Yes ; he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, in each of these instances, I want you to 
identify a person as a member of the Communist Party only if you 
possess personal knoAvledge. 

Mr. RosSEN. Yes; that's — I'm using that. 

]\Ir. Moulder. Could you locate where his residence is ? 

Mr. RossEN. I happen to know that he 

Mr. Tavenner. And give a further identifying information where 
you can. 

Mr. Rossen. Well, I have known Henry Meyers for a long time. I 
have been in branches with him. 

Mr. Clardy. Been in what? 

Mr. RossEN. Branches of the Communist l*arty. 

Mr. Clardy. Oh. 

Mr. Tavenner, Was he a writer or an actor? 

Mr. RossEN. He was a writer — writer and lyricist 

Mr. Moulder. And resided where? 

Mr. RossEN. California. I don't know his address. 

Mr. Tavenner. Maurice Clark? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; he was a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. Harold Manoff — M-a-n-o-f-f ? 

Mr. RossEN. Harold Manoff? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. RossEN. I wouldn't know anything about him. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not know ? 

Mr. Moulder. Do we have a record of those people he is identifying 
so he won't be confused with other people of similar names? 

Mr. Tavenner. We have the information 

Mr. Moulder. I mean, can he 

Mr. TAMiNNER (continuing). In many instances. I am not certain 
it is definite in all instances. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, these are all persons living in California, or 
in the California area? 

Mr. Tavenner. At least were. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I mean. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't know about now. 

Mr. Clardy. They were living there at that time when he could 
have known them: is that right? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Alvah Bessie? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; I knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party. 



1494 COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a writer? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Hugo Butler? 

Mr. RossEN. He was a writer. He was a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. Glenda Sullivan? 

Mr RossEN. She was a member. I don't know what her occupa- 
tion was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Hal Smith? 

Mr. RossEN. 1 can't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Paul Jarrico. 

Mr. RossEN. He was a member; a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with John Bright 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. B-r-i-g-h-t? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; he was a member; writer; subsequently left the 
party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lester Fuller? 

Mr. RossEN. He was a member — long time ago. I knew him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a writer? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Morton 

ISIr. RossEN. No — wait a minute — I think he was a director, if I am 
not mistaken. 

Mr. Tavenner. Morton Grant? 

Mr. RossEN. Writer; member of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lilith James — L-i-1-i-t-h. 

Mr. RossEN. She is a member of the party; wife of Dan James. I 
think slie is a writer, too ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have already identified Dan James 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). In connection with one of the organi- 
zations. 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Charles Leonard? 

Mr. RossEN. I can't recall. No; I just couldn't make a direct iden- 
tification. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isobel Lennart? 

Mr. Rossen. She was a member ; a writer. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, so there will be no question about it, you are 
reading only names of persons who have been identified at sometime 
in the past 

Mr. Tavenner. That is understood. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). And seeking further identification from 
this witness; is that right? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. sir. 

William Pomerance? 

Mr. RossEN. He was a member. He was — he wasn't a writer. His — 
he was an executive secretary of the Screen Writers' Guild at one 
time, and I think at one time also had the same kind of job at the 
Screen Cartoonists' Guild. 

Mr. Moulder. You were acquainted with all those people that Mr. 
Tavenner named in the State of California? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE NEW YORK AREA 1495 

Mr, RossEN. Yes ; yes. It would only be during the time I was there, 
and during the time 1 was — I'll make that very clear — this will only 
relate to the time I was a member of the Communist Party. I know 
nothing of their activities, of their present connections, subsequent 
to 1947. 

Mr. Moulder. You are referring to that period of time 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Moulder (continuing). When you were in the State of 
California ? 

Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know anytliing regarding the circum- 
stances of the employment of Pomerance ^ by the National Labor Rela- 
tions Board? 

Mr. RossEN. No; I know nothing at all about that. I could only 
talk in terms of his employment at the Screen Writers' Guild. I 
don't think I knew Pomerance at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been placed to any inconvenience or any 
special criticism as a result of your testimony before this connnittee 
in June of 1951, at which time you expressed in very definite terms 
your o})position, your then opposition, to the Communist Party? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; but there's been a great deal of criticism of my 
position in 1951 both directly and indirectly, despite the fact that 
I did not give this committee any names or any information. The 
fact that I expressed my opposition to communism at that time was 
enough to expose me to many different kinds of criticism in my several 
years since I have appeared before this committee. 

There's a very interesting commentary that just — purely on the 
issue, I would say, civil rights — the Communist Party was not very 
willing to espouse that cause purely in terms of disagreeing with them 
on a political level. In other words, civil rights did not work at all 
in terms of Communist policy if you disagreed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. RossEN. It only worked if you agreed. 

And I've been subject to certain criticism, but that — I want to make 
this clear — that has not influenced my decision to come here today. 
If I had been influenced by that, it would be purely of a matter, 
you know, sort of a kind of revenge motive — I should have come 
back here 30 days after I left, but I didn't. I just want to get that 
point very clear. 

Mr. Taati^nner. Yes. 

Prior to your coming to this committee, did you go to any Gov- 
ernment agency? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you told the Government agency — — 

Mr. RossEN. I told the Government agency 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). All the facts within 

Mr. RossEN (continuing). Of facts 1 had 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Your knowU^dge? 

Mr. RossEN (continuing). In my knowledge; that is correct. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. W^ell, I am glad you made your decision to come 
back. 

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

ISlr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

* Abraham Pomerance. 



1496 COJVEVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

Mr, Clardy, No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Just this, Mr. Chairman : I have been impressed, of 
course, by the testimony of many witnesses tliat I have heard in the 
last few months — I am a freshman member of tliis committee — but 
I don't believe any testimony has impressed me as much as that of 
the witness here this afternoon. 

Now, you said at the opening of your statement, with much sin- 
cerity, that it was the mental conflicts as a young man in the late 
twenties and the frustrations and the cynicism of that time that led 
you into the party. 

I am just wondering today, after all of the experience that you 
have had, whether or not you don't feel that one or more of the great 
religious movements that exist in this country today would solve for 
a young man, young person, at this time the conflicts that you had 
at that time. 

Mr. RossEN. Well, that is a very difficult question for me to answer 
because I think I — I couldn't answer th-it in terms of other people, 
and their own feeling about religion, you know 

Mr. Scherer. Well 

Mr. RossEN. And it seems to me I would be going into a realm, 
honestly, which I have no right to go into, and I — you know, I would 
like to answer the question, if I could, but I just can't. I honestly 
can't. 

Mr. Scherer. I appreciate your frank reply. 

Mr. RossEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. I have no questions, but I do want to commend Mr. 
Rossen for coming before the committee. I know it has required 
courage on your part, and I, as a member of the committee, am cer- 
tainly grateful you have aj^peared before the committee and have 
so testified as you have ; and by your testimony and cooperation in the 
work of this committee, you are proving your character, sincerity, and 
loyalty as an American citizen. 

Mr. RossEN. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I want to ask this witness the same question I ask 
almost always of witnesses who come to try to help us, and that, Mr. 
Rossen, is this question, based on Public Law 601, passed in 194:5 by 
the United States Congress, which is to this effect: Whether or not 
you have any recommendation or suggestion to make to this com- 
mittee in the field or area of remedial legislation? 

We are challenged under one section of Public Law 601 to give 
Congress a factual report on our investigations and then to also re- 
port to Congress on ''all other questions in relation thereto that would 
aid Congress in any necessary remedial legislation." 

(Representative INIorgan M. ^Moulder left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Doyle (continuing) . Have 3^ou had time to think on this area of 
the work of this committee and of your Congress and of subversive 
activities to the point where you are able to give us any suggestions at 
this time ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1497 

Mr. RossEN. I have thought about it, but I honestly don't have any 
suggestions for legislation that I could give you, because I just can't 
crystallize it in my own mind. 

I am sure many of you are also confused by this issue, and I am not 
a lawmaker. 

I do feel very strongly — I know the only thing I feel, no matter 
what it is, it has to be done in terms of making this democracy work 
effectively. This is your job. This is the job of making this country 
the kind of country in terms of all kinds of opportunities and non- 
discrimination, et cetera, that can leave no field for communism to 
flourish. 

Mr. DoTLE. Well, apparently the framers of Public Law 601 had in 
mind that Congress, after investigations by this committee, should 
think in terms of some advancement or some progress, because they 
expressly set that out in this section of the law — that we should recom- 
mend to Congress as to any necessary remedial legislation. 

I think, Mr. Chairman, this distinguished witness coming back to us, 
voluntarily, after claiming the constitutional protection on June 25, 
1951, is a good illustration of the fact I believe we ought to even more 
vigorously than ever emphasize the fact that this committee does 
stand very cordially ready and willing to make its staff and its 
committee members even available to American citizens who want to 
come voluntarily and help us in the interests of our national security 
and safety. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle, the Chair concurs with your statement. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. Well, I know the Chair concurs, and I know that every 
member of this committee concurs; but somehow I have come to feel 
that perhaps we haven't yet done it enough, Mr. Chairman. I am con- 
vinced of that fact, and you will probably find me emphasizing that 
every time you ask me, under proper circumstances, if I have a question. 

I do want to emphasize, Mr. Rossen, that I, as a member of the 
committee, appreciate your coming. 

There was one point at which you used certain language. I know it 
will only take a minute, but I wish you would help clear up for me as 
to what you meant. I tried to hurriedly write it down, and this is 
purported to be substantially your quote : 

I don't longer think that any citizen has the individual right to claim on his own 
ground of individual morality and put that ground up against the security and 
safety of our Nation. 

Do you remember saying something substantially thus ? 

Mr. RossEN. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. DoYLE. Well, I am glad I caught the substance of it, then, in a 
hurry. What did you mean by that? 

Mr. RossEN. Well, truthfully, the reason I claimed the fifth amend- 
ment in 1951 was because I didn't want to give any names, and that is 
what I conceived to be a moral position to it. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, in June of 1951 you claimed it as an 
individual moral position 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). You were taking when you claimed the 
constitutional provision 

Mr. RossEN. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle (continuing). Under the fifth amendment? 



1498 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 



Mr. RossEN. That's right. 

Mr. Doyle. "Well, then what compelled you to abandon that 
individual 



Mr. RossEN. Well, I- 



Mr. Doyle (continuing). Moral position? 

Mr. RossEN. I think that is contained in what I said. I think, as I 
kept thinking through my own position and as I kept seeing the 
tensions in the world increase, and our own country in the midst of 
crisis after crisis — I felt that I, as an individual, did not have the right 
to withhold my own — whatever information I had from any regularly 
constituted agency of the Government. 

jNIr. Doyle. Or may I put it this way, in conclusion — if I am 
putting it too strong now 

Mr. RossEN. No ; that is all right. 

Mr. Doyle. Or if I am putting it stronger than you would put it, 
you tell me — in other words, you came to the conclusion, based upon 
your intimate personal knowledge, gained over a term of years in the 
Communist Party, that you no longer could claim your individual 
moral grounds and legal grounds of the fifth amendment of the 
United States Constitution when claiming that ground prevented you 
from giving to your own Nation the protection and security which 
you came to feel it was entitled to as a result of your personal 
knowledge ? 

Mr. RossEN. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, you put yourself, then, in a position, as 
a result of your patriotism or patriotic attitude toward your Nation, 
which you came to subsequent to January 25, 1951, where you were 
willing to be labeled a stool pigeon and an informer, but you felt that 
was perhaps the privilege rather than a disgrace ? 

Mr. RossEN. I don't feel that I'm being a stool pigeon or an in- 
former. I refuse — I just won't accept that characterization. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, Mr. Doyle means-^ — 

Mr. RossEN. No ; no. I am not- 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). You will be- 



Mr. RossEN (continuing). Disagreeing with Mr. Doyle, but I think 
that is a rather romantic — that is like children playing at cops and 
robbers. They are just kidding themselves, and I don't care what the 
characterizations in terms of — people can take whatever position they 
want. I know what I feel like within myself. Characterization or 
no characterization, I don't feel that way. 

Mr, Doyle. May I make this one observation — I made it in the 
case of Artie Shaw, a musician, and a couple of others of you men 
who have reached your pinnacle in your own art and profession: I 
hope I may live to see the time when you, as a distinguished American 
director and producer, will find it not only a personal satisfaction but 
commercially profitable to put into the pictures or on the legitimate 
stage something of vigor and vitality for the American people to go 
and see, which will be an inspiration to them and will give to Amer- 
ican people the dynamics, be a cause of giving to us the dynanjics, of 
making our democracy work, to that point where our American youth 
will have no reason to look elsewhere than right within the framework 
of our American Government for the answer. 

Mr. RossEN. I shall certainly try. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 1499 

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Frazier. 

Mr. Frazier. Mr. Chairman, I just wish to join with the other mem- 
l3ers of the committee in expressing my appreciation for the vast 
amount of information that this witness has given us in his testimony. 

No questions. 

Mr. EossEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Velde. And in the interest of saving time, Mr. Rossen, let me 
say I join with my colleagues in expressing appreciation to you for 
the vast fund of information you have given to us. 

Now, the Chair would like to make a statement. 

You are dismissed, with the committee's thanks, Mr. Rossen. 

I want to explain to the general public that the committee has come 
to New York for the purposes of fulfilling its obligations which were 
imposed upon it by the House of Representatives — that being to 
investigate subversive propaganda and activities, ascertain facts rela- 
tive to subversive influences operating in this country and to report 
to Congress for the purposes of remedial legislation. 

The committee came to New York also in the interests of economy. 
We felt that it was more econmical for the committee and its staff to 
come to New York than it would be to have the number of witnesses 
■which we heard subpenaed to Washington, D. C. That was one of the 
motivating reasons for our coming to New York City. 

During the course of these hearings we have heard 19 witnesses, 7 
of whom were cooperative and who gave a great deal of information 
which will help us immensely in performing the functions imposed 
upon us by Congress. 

I would like to especially thank Mr. Robert Rossen, our last witness, 
Mrs. Dorothy Funn, and Mr. Robert Gladnick for the tremendous 
amount of information that they very willingly and truthfully gave 
to the committee. 

I would like to take this opportunity, too, to thank Mr. Morgan, the 
superintendent of this building, and Mr. Carnell, clerk of the court, 
and their staffs. 

The Office of the Attorney General of the United States has been 
most helpful and the United States Marshal's office and the New York 
City police and others have been most efficient in maintaining proper 
decorum throughout these most important hearings. 

The good people of the city of New York — and most patriotic peo- 
ple, I might add — have been most generous and courteous to the com- 
mittee, the members of its staff, throughout these hearings. 

These hearings are being concluded today because ]\f embers of the 
Congress on the connnittee have other duties to fulfill besides chasing 
Reds, so to speak, and I am sure that the Members here know that their 
offices are probably filled with letters, unanswered letters, at the pres- 
ent time, and, so, the committee members must get back to attend to 
other business which is in the interests of the people of the United 
States. 

I would like to reiterate the statement that has often been made by 
previous chairmen of this committee and by myself : That any person 
who was mentioned in the course of these hearings is invited to come 
to our counsel or any member of the committee if he feels that he has 
been smeared or in any other way his reputation has been damaged. 



1500 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 

We are anxious that people also who have information relative to 
subversive activities come before our committee and give us the benefit 
of their knowledge so that we might more effectively do the work that 
was imposed upon us by Congress and by the American people. 

I should also like to thank not only the press, but the radio, televi- 
sion, and newsreel for the most eflicient and very courteous treatment 
that they have given members of the committee and for their faithful 
reporting of the hearing as it progressed. 

With that, the commitee is adjourned until further call of the 
Chair. 

(Whereupon, at 5: 50 p. m., the hearing was adjourned, subject to 
call of the chairman.) 



INDEX 



Individuals Page 

Backus, Georgia 1480 

Barzman, Ben 1480 

1428, 1429 
1448, 1449 

1461 

___ 1480 
1474, 1475 



Berkeley, Martin 

Biberman, p]dward 

Bigelman, Leo 

Blankfort, Henry, Jr 

Blowitz, Bill 

Bright, John 1494 

Browder, Earl 1481, 1482, 1485, 1489 

Buchman, Sidney 1471, 1475, 1481 

Butler, Hugo 1494 

CJacchiohe, Peter V 1432 

Clark, Maurice 1493 

€ole, Lester 1471 

€ollins, Richard 1473, 1475, 1477, 1490 

Dmytryk, Edward 1479 

Endore, Guy 1480 

Ernst, Morris 1442 

Ettinger, Eve 1428 

Fairchild, Henry Pratt 1434,1437 

Faragoh, Francis 1478, 1479 

Finn, Pauline Lauber 1474 

Fleury, Bernyce 1449 

Foster, William Z 1432 

Frankel, Osmund K 1428-1442 

Fuller, Lester 1494 

Funn, Dorothy K 1431,1499 

Gannes, Harry 1467 

Gerson, Simon W 1432 

Gladnick, Robert 1499 

Grant, Morton 1494 

Harris, Lou 1462, 1480 

Hunter, Ian 1480 

Ivens, Joris 1478, 1479 

James, Dan 1480, 1494 

James, Lilith 1494 

Jarrico, Paul I 1494 

Kraft, Hy 1481 

Lardner, Ring, Jr 1471,1477 

Lawson, John Howard 1462, 1471, 1474, 1475, 1481 

Lennart, Isobel 1494 

Leonard, Charles 1494 

Levy, Melvin 1475, 1477 

Maltz, Albert 1487, 1488 

Manoff, Harold 14^3 

Meyers, Henry 1493 

Michoels 1468, 1469 

Misohel, Joseph 1475, 1478 

Moore, Sam 1475 

Nolan, Edward 1448 

Pfeflfer, Itzy 1468, 1469 

Polifka, Bernyce 1449 

Pomerance, Abraham 1495 

Purcell, Gertrude 1471 

Randolph, Phillip 1432 

1501 



1502 INDEX 

Rapf, Maurice 14711 

Reis, Meta 1475 

Rinaldo, Fred 1481 

Robinson, Earl 1478, 1479- 

Robinson, Sugar Ray 1432 

Roberts, Marguerite 1472 

Roberts, Stanley 1478 

Robeson, Paul 1492, 1493 

Rossen, Robert 1454-1499 (testimony) 

Roth, Ann 1471 

Ruthven, Madelaine 1462 

Sabinson, Lee 1427,1428-1442 (testimony) 

Sanchez, Emily 1437 

Salt, Waldo 1480- 

Schull)erg, Budd Wilson 1471 

Schwartz, Zachary 1442-1453 (testimony)' 

Scott, Adrian 1481 

Shapiro, Vic 1475- 

Shaw, Artie 1434 

Silver, Max 1464, 14S1. 1482 

Simon 1469- 

Slonsky 1469- 

Smith, Hal 1494 

Solomon, Louis 1475, 1477 

Sullivan, Glenda 1494 

Townsend, Leo 1480 

Trivers, Paul 1480- 

Trurabo, Dalton 1471 

Tuttlo, Frank 1480- 

Uris, Michael 1461 

Vorhaus, Bernard--! -. __: 1477 

Wexley, John — — 1477 

OrQANIZATIONvS 

American Continental Congress for Peace 1434, 143T 

American Jewish League Against Communism 1451 

Civil Ri-hts Congress 1433'- 

College of the City of New York ___'_' 1428 

Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy______^ ; ^ 14.36, 1437 

Connrress of Industrial Organizations 1432 

Hollywood Writers' Mobilization 1449, 1450, 1472-1477, I486: 

Independent Citizens Committee of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions 1429" 

Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 1463 

National Citizens Political Action Committee of the Independent Citizens 

Committee of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions- 1429' 

National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions- 1434-1437 

National Negro Congress - 1431, 14,32" 

New York University -- — 14.57 

Progressive Citizens of America 1429 

Screen Cartoonists' Guild .-. - 1494 

Screen Playwrights .-. : ^^— ;_ 1460 

Screen Writers Guild. 1460, 1470, 1472, 1474, 1476, 1487, 1494, 1495 

United Negro and Allied Veterans of America 1432" 

Writers Congress-— ____■_-_-_-_-__-_--__ ^^____--^_.._: 1475-1477,1479 

Writers' War Board— ——-__ ;_ :_-— — ^ 1472: 

Publications 

Dally Worker 1431-1433, 1437, 1465-146T 

Hollywood Quarterly 1450- 

.Tewish Morning Freiheit 146T 

New Masses 146.3, 1465 

Peoples' World 146.3, 1465 

Washington Post 1431, 1437, 1440 

Worker 1466 

o 




336 5