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INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA— Part  3 


HEARINGS 


BEFORE  THE 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 


EIGHTY-THIRD  CONGRESS 

SECOND  SESSION 


APRIL  12,  14,  AND  23,  1954 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
INCLUDING  INDEX 


UNITED  STATES 
GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OBTICB 
*7718  WASHINGTON  :  1964 


Boston  Public  Library 
superintendent  of  Documents 

SEP  8- 1954 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 

United  States  House  op  Representati\t)s 

HAROLD  H.  VELDE,  Illinois,  Chairman 
BERNARD  W.  KEARNEY,  New  York  FRANCIS  E.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania 

DONALD  L.  JACKSON,  California  MORGAN  M.  MOULDER,  Missouri 

KIT  CLARDY,  Michigan  CLYDE  DOYLE,  California 

GORDON  H.  SCHERER,  Ohio  JAMES  B.  FRAZIER,  Jr.,  Tennessee 

Robert  L.  Kunzig,  Counsel 

Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  Counsel 

Thomas  W.  Beale,  Sr.,  Chief  Clerk 

Raphael  I.  NixON,  Director  of  Research 

Courtney  E.  Owens,  Acting  Chief  Investigator 

n 


CONTENTS 


Pag« 

April  12,  1954,  testimony  of  Merton  D.  Sumner 4623 

April  14,  1954,  testimony  of  Frances  Burke  (resumed) 4647 

April  23. 1954,  testimony  of : 

Elizabeth    Foder 4653 

Eda    C.    Fowler 4657 

Leo   I.    Breger 4663 

John    Dunkel 4668 

Irving    Ravetch 4673 

Index i 

m 


Public  Law  601,  79th  Congress 

The  legislation  under  which  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities  operates  is  Public  Law  601,  79th  Congress  [1946],  chapter 
753,  2cl  session,  which  provides : 

Be  it  enacted  by  the  Senate  and  Hoiise  of  Representatives  of  the  United  States 
■)f  America  in  Congress  assembled;  *  *  * 

PART  2— RULES  OF  THE  HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

Rltle  X 

SEC.    121.    STANDING   COMMITTEE 
rr  *****  m 

17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  members. 

Rule  XI 

POWEES    AND    DUTIES    OF    COMMITTEES 


(q)    (1)   Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(A)   Un-American  activities. 

(2)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommit- 
tee is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (i)  the  extent, 
character,  and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States, 
(ii)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propa- 
anda  that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and  at- 
tacks the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitution, 
and  (iii)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  in  any 
necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  in- 
vestigation, together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such  times 
and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting,  has 
recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  .such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance  of 
such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person 
designated  by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 

V 


RULES  ADOPTED  BY  THE  83D  CONGRESS 
House  Resolution  5,  January  3,  1953 

Rule  X 

STANDING   COMMITTEES 

(1)  There  shall  be  elected  by  the  House,  at  the  commencement  of  each  Con- 
gress, the  following  standing  committees : 

*  It:  *  *  *  *  * 

(q)  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  members. 
******* 

Rule  XI 

POWERS    AND   DUTIES    OF   COMMITTEES 
******* 

17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(a)  Un-American  activities. 

(b)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee, 
is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time,  investigations  of  (1)  the  extent,  char- 
acter, and  objects  of  un-American  i)ropaganda  activities  in  the  United  States, 
(2)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propa- 
ganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and 
attaclis  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitu- 
tion, and  (3)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress 
in  any  necessary  i-emedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  investi- 
gation, together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such  times 
and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting,  has 
recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person  desig- 
nated by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  CALIFOENIA— Part  3 


MONDAY,  APRIL    12,    1954 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

SUBCOMMITEE  OF  THE  COMMITTEE  ON  Un- AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES, 

Washington^  D.  C. 

EXECUTIVE  SESSION 

The  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
met,  pursuant  to  call,  at  2:30  p.  m.,  in  room  225,  Old  House  Office 
Building,  the  Honorable  Donald  L.  Jackson  (acting  chairman),  pre- 
siding. 

Committee  members  present:  Representatives  Donald  L.  Jackson 
( luting  chairman),  and  Clyde  Doyle. 

Staff  members  present :  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel ;  Courtney 
E.  Owens,  acting  chief  investigator ;  Thomas  W.  Beale,  Sr.,  chief  clerk ; 
Donald  T.  Appell,  investigator ;  and  Dolores  Anderson,  reporter. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Will  you  stand  and  be  sworn,  please? 

In  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee,  do 
you  solemnly  swear  to  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing 
but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  For  the  purpose  of  taking  this  testimony  of  the 
witness  this  afternoon,  the  Chair  has  appointed  a  subcommittee  con- 
sisting of  Messrs.  Scherer,  Doyle,  and  Jackson,  with  the  latter  as  acting 
chairman. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please? 

TESTIMONY  OF  MERTON  D.  SUMNER 

Mr.  Sumner.  Merton  D.  Sumner,  S-u-m-n-e-r. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  accompanied  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  desire  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Sumner? 

Mr.  Sumner.  At  Cedar  Springs,  Mich.,  on  October  17, 1910. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  reside  now  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  At  Barrington,  111.,  207  Dundee  Avenue. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  is  your  occupation? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  teach  new  personnel  for  the  Jewel  Tea  Co.,  con- 
ducting a  sales  training  school. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  your 
educational  training  has  been? 

4623 


4624       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Sumner.  Four  years  of  high  school,  and  one  year  of  college 
at  Greenville,  111.,  equivalent  to  about  2  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  lived  at  any  time  in  San  Diego,  Calif.? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  what  period  of  time  were  you  a  resident 
of  that  area  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  After  I  left  the  service.  That  would  be  the  beginning 
approximately  of  1940,  or  thereabouts,  I  believe. 

I  know  I  was  there  in  1941,  '42,  '43,  or  '44.  I  don't  remember  just 
exactly  when  I  came  and  when  I  left. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  it  would  be  roughly  about  those  dates  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  nature  of  your  employment  in  San 
Diego,  Calif.? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  had  several  jobs.  I  first  went  to  work  in  the  county 
hospital  as  an  orderly.  Then  I  took  a  civil-service  examination  for  the 
post  office  and  worked  there  for  several  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  About  when  did  your  employment  begin  in  the  post 
office? 

Mr.  Sumner.  In  the  post  office  ?     I  believe  about  1940,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  you  continued  how  long  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  think  I  was  there  nearly  4  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Does  that  mean  that  practically  all  the  time  you 
were  in  San  Diego  you  were  employed  in  the  Post  Office  Department? 

Mr.  Sumner.  After  I  became  a  civilian,  yes.  More  time  in  the  post 
office  than  anywhere  else. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  period  of  your  service  in  the  Armed 
Forces  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Oh — give  me  a  chance  to  get  a  date  together  here.  I 
think  it  started  about  1934.  I  believe  I  was  there  for  3  years  and  8 
months,  approximately. 

Mr.  Taatenner.  You  mean  at  San  Diego,  Calif.,  while  you  were 
serving  in  the  Marine  Corps  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Not  always  in  San  Diego,  no,  but  those  were  the  ap- 
proximate dates  of  my  service. 

Mr.  TA^^NNER.  And  then  you  received  an  honorable  discharge,  I 
assume  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Medical  discharge — otherwise  honorable. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  date  of  your  discharge,  approxi- 
mately ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  think  probably  around — somewhere  between  '37  and 
'39, 1  believe. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  you  became  a  resident  of  San  Diego,  Calif., 
upon  your  discharge  from  the  armed  services  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliere  did  you  go  upon  leaving  San  Diego  in  ap- 
proximately 1944  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  To  Grand  Rapids,  Mich.,  which  is  about  20  miles 
from  my  hometown  where  I  was  born.  I  didn't  go  directly  to  Grand 
Rapids,  but  in  the  vicinity  of  Grand  Rapids — first  I  was  out  on  a 
farm. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  studying  the  activities  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  the  area  of  San  Diego,  Calif.     Information  has  come 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4625 

to  our  attention  indicating  that  you  have  some  knowledge  of  the 
activities  of  that  organization  while  you  were  employed  by  the  post 
office.     Is  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  should  have.  I  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  circum- 
stances or  way  under  which  you  became  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes.  It  was  while  I  was  still  in  the  Marine  Corps, 
aboard  the  U.  S.  S.  Tuscaloosa  at  that  time.  Our  ship  was  in  drydock 
at  Vallejo,  getting  barnacles  scraped  off  and  various  repairs  made. 
One  afternoon  I  was  strolling  around  the  deck  and  there  was  a  group 
of  welders — spot  welders  and  riveters,  working  on  the  ship  and  talk- 
ing about  religion  in  a  manner  in  which  I  had  never  heard  before. 

Having  come  from  a  religious  famil}' — a  very  strict  religious  fam- 
ily— I  stopped  and  listened  to  the  tone  of  the  conversation,  which  was 
very  antireligious. 

Mr.  Jackson.  These  were  civilian  navy-yard  workers,  I  gather. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes,  sir.  Civilian  navy-yard  workers  aboard  the 
ship. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  approximate  date  of  this  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  it  was  about  a  year  before  I  received  my 
discharge. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  would  be  probably  in  1938  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  That  would  be  pretty  close. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well.     Proceed  and  tell  us  what  occurred. 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  listened  for  a  while  and  walked  by  and  then  came 
back  again  and  said  "This  conversation  is  interesting  me  in  a  way — 
may  I  ask  whether  you  belong  to  some  kind  of  group  or  organization 
that  meets  to  discuss  these  things?"  They  said,  "Yes,  we  do.  Why, 
did  you  find  our  conversation  interesting?"  And  I  said  "Yes,  I  did." 
They  started  talking  among  themselves  for  a  while.  They  asked  me 
a  few  questions — where  I  was  born — what  political  party  I  was 
affiliated  with — what  my  religious  background  was — and  so  I  told 
them.  They  then  wanted  to  know  when  I  would  get  my  next  liberty, 
so  I  said  it  would  possibly  be  that  coming  weekend.  Then  they  said, 
"If  you  do,  you  are  invited  over  to  such  and  such  an  address."  I 
don't  remember  the  address  now,  and  they  wrote  it  down  on  a  card 
and  handed  it  to  me.  I  asked  if  I  was  welcome  to  bring  a  friend  along 
with  me,  a  second-class  radioman,  who  was  my  friend,  and  he  said 
"Well,  yes.  At  this  meeting  I  see  no  reason  why  you  shouldn't  be 
allowed  to  do  that."  So  I  invited  this  friend  of  mine.  I  don't  recall 
his  name  now.  It  was  on  a  Saturday.  We  both  had  liberty — in  fact 
we  arranged  it  so  we  would  have  liberty  together  because  we  were 
curious  about  what  this  was  all  about. 

When  we  got  there,  we  knocked  at  the  door  and  someone  asked  us 
to  come  in.  I  showed  this  card.  The  man  at  the  door  said,  "Wliy  did 
j'ou  come  in  uniform  ?"  And  I  said,  "Why  ?  I  didn't  know  there  was 
anything  wron^  with  it."  This  was  in  peacetime  and  we  could  wear 
civvies.     He  said,  "Well,  come  in." 

We  went  in  and  sat  down.  There  were  approximately  30  people 
present — mostly  men  and  possibly  2  or  3  women.  They  were  all  of  the 
same  type — workmen — you  could  see  that  they  were.  Their  conversa- 
tions went  in  the  same  manner  and  they  w^ere  talking  about  unions. 

47718—54 — pt.  3 2 


4626        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IX  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

This  was  pretty  much  over  my  head  because  up  to  this  time  I  knew 
nothing  about  union  organization — what  their  aims  were  or  anything 
else. 

Before  the  meeting  was  through,  however,  we  both  became  awart* 
of  the  fact  that  this  was  a  meeting  of  the  Vallejo  Communist  Party. 
Towards  the  close  of  the  meeting  the  man  who  had  invited  us  to 
attend  in  the  first  place  came  over  and  sat  down  beside  us  and  asked  if 
we  were  interested  in  joining.  I  said  to  my  buddy,  "What  do  you 
say  we  do  to  find  out  what  it  is  all  about?"  He  said,  "I  am  game  if 
you  are."  So  they  passed  around  cards.  There  were  evidently  n 
half-dozen  people  they  had  contacted  like  ourselves.  All  but  one 
person  there  signed  the  card  and  paid  dues.  If  I  remember  right 
they  charged  us  a  dollar — and  told  us  when  the  next  meeting  would 
be.  They  said,  "In  the  meantime,  here  is  some  literature.  Take  it 
back  to  your  ship,  study  it  over,  but  be  careful  where  you  keep  it 
because  the  officers  may  not  understand  it  if  they  see  it." 

I  put  the  literature  inside  my  marine  jacket  and  went  aboard  ship. 
We  went  down  in  the  emergency  radio  room — read  the  literature 
through,  and  destroyed  it.  They  were  pamphlets  on  discrimination 
against  the  Jewish  people — against  Negro  people  in  the  United 
States — why  the  CIO  was  a  better  labor  organization  than  the  A.  F. 
of  L.  because  of  the  way  in  which  it  was  organized — and  something 
about  the  organization  being  more  militant.  I  think  there  was  a 
Communist  Manifesto  there  also,  in  short  form,  by  Karl  Marx.  We 
threw  the  stuff  out  of  the  porthole  after  we  finished  reading  it. 

I  didn't  make  any  contact  with  the  party  from  that  time  until  I  was 
out  of  the  service  and  back  in  San  Diego,  in  civilian  life. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  interrupt  you  there.  Do  you  recall  who  it 
was  led  this  meeting  you  attended  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  I  don't. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  remember  any  of  the  names  of  the  people? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  if  you  had  asked  me  shortly  after  the  meeting, 
I  could  have  named  them  as  Comrade  Joe,  Comrade  Dick,  Comrade 
Tom,  and  so  forth.     There  were  no  last  names  mentioned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  later  on  in  your  experience  meet  any  of  the 
individuals  who  were  present  at  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  I  have  never  seen  them  since  that  time,  to  my 
knowledge. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  hearing 
room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  this  group  have  any  name,  or  any  designation 
of  any  type  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  yes  it  did,  because  all  groups  have  names,  but 
I  do  not  know  what  the  name  of  this  particular  group  was.  I  expect 
it  was  called  a  union  unit  of  some  type. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  union?  I  mean  by  that,  was 
this  group  of  Communist  Party  members  who  Avere  in  a  particular 
union  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  am  pretty  sure  it  was  because  they  were  all  laboring 
people.  It  was  very  evident  there  were  no  professional  people  there, 
so  it  was  not  a  mixed  type  of  group.  Tliey  were  all  steamfitters,  weld- 
ers, and  shopmen  of  one  type  or  another.  It  is  possible  they  were  all 
working  aboard  various  ships,  but  of  that  I  have  no  real  knowledge. 


COMIMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4627 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well.  What  was  your  next  contact  with  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  next  contact  with  the  Communist  Party  was  in 
5an  Diego,  at  the  International  Book  Shop.  If  I  remember  correctly, 
:he  address  was  635  E  Street  in  San  Diego.  I  went  to  the  bookshop 
md  told  them  of  my  previous  contact  with  the  party,  and  that  I  had 
lad  no  contact  since,  and  asked  them  what  group  or  unit  I  would  affili- 
ite  with  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Taahenner.  When  did  that  occur? 

Mr.  Sumner.  It  occurred  while  I  was  working  at  the  county  hospi- 
tal. That  would  be  a  short  time  after  my  discharge  from  the  service. 
[t  must  have  been  around  '38 — 1938. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Apparently  it  was  about  in  the  same  year  in  which 
^ou  had  become  a  member,  or  was  it  in  the  following  year  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  it  was  the  following  year. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well.  What  occurred  after  the  interview  you 
bave  just  described  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  They  said  that  I  evidently  knew  very  little  about  the 
party  if  this  was  the  only  contact  I  had  had.  I  said  that  was  correct, 
and  I  only  knew  what  t  had  heard  on  the  outside.  So  they  said  I 
had  better  go  to  a  school  which  was  a  beginners  school  for  new  mem- 
bers and  lasted  a  week,  and  I  was  expcted  to  attend  each  meeting. 
A-t  the  close  of  this  week  I  would  be  given  an  opportunity  to  decide 
whether  or  not  I  wanted  to  join,  because  I  would  have  to  rejoin  if  I 
came  in  with  them.     They  would  want  me  to  come  in  as  a  new  member. 

So  I  signed  up  for  the  school.  The  school  consisted  of  sessions  on 
the  history  of  the  American  labor  movement — the  history  of  the 
United  States,  from  a  Marxist  viewpoint,  which  was  to  the  effect  that 
economic  conditions  determined  trends  of  history,  not  morals — not 
the  leadership  of  great  men  or  the  lack  of  leadership  of  great  men — 
but  everything  is  determined  by  economic  conditions,  and  the  man 
will  think  the  way  he  does  depending  upon  his  own  personal  economic 
condition. 

This  was  the  type  of  thing  we  were  taught,  and  then  we  had  sessions 
on  the  discrimination  that  existed  in  this  country  against  certain  mi- 
nority groups,  such  as  the  Negroes,  the  foreign  born,  and  it  even  went 
back  to  the  American  Indians.  Then  at  the  close  of  this  session  we 
were  given  a  questionnaire — a  written  questionnaire.  One  of  the 
questions  I  remember  because  I  evidently  answered  everything  cor- 
rectly except  this  one.  It  was,  "Do  you  feel  that  if  communism  came 
to  the  United  States  tomorrow,  that  it  would  benefit  everyone?"  I 
answered  "Yes."  The  leader — his  name  was  Dick,  but  I  can't  recall 
the  last  name — said  there  was  where  I  was  entirely  wrong.  I  said 
"Why,  what  do  you  mean  ?  If  it  is  all  the  fine  things  you  have  been 
saying,  it  seems  to  me  that  it  would  help  everyone — minority,  majority, 
and  everybody  else."  He  said,  "Well,  it  wouldn't  help  the  capitalistic 
owners  of  the  country  because  we  would  line  those  all  up  against  a 
wall  and  shoot  them  like  dogs."  I  swallowed  a  couple  of  times  and 
didn't  have  anything  else  to  say.  I  didn't  agree  with  him,  however, 
because  I  felt  at  that  time  that  if  communism  would  come  into  this 
country  that  next  week  that  it  would  benefit  everyone. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  some  identifying  information  regard- 
ing this  person  named  Dick,  or  whom  you  referred  to  as  Dick? 


4628       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  can  picture  him  in  my  mind.  His  wife's  name  was 
Jean.  He  had  a  very  dark  complexion — however,  he  was  a  blonde. 
He  looked  like  he  laid  out  hours  and  hours  on  the  beach.  This  was 
the  type  of  complexion  he  had — and  very  blonde  hair. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  a  functionary  in  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  To  my  knowledg  at  that  time  he  was  county  organizer, 
or  at  least  the  San  Diego  City  organizer  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  where  he  lived  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No  I  don't.  I  was  never  in  their  home.  I  met  him 
and  his  wife  at  the  bookshop  several  times.  They  later  were  divorced 
and  he  married — I  heard  that  he  married,  but  I  don't  know  for  sure, 
One  of  the  party  members  told  me  that  he  had  married  a  Mexican  gir] 
and  disappeared,  south  of  the  border  somewhere  and  left  his  wife  and 
two  or  three  children — small  children. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  this  school  held  that  you  referred  tol 

Mr.  Sumner.  It  was  held  in  the  Workers'  Alliance  room  which  was 
adjacent  to  the  bookshop  and  a  part  of  the  same  building. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  city  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  San  Diego,  Calif. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  attend  the  school? 

Mr.  Sumner.  As  I  recall  it — for  a  week. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  fix  a  date  for  the  school? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  think  I  could  if  I  dug  into  some  of  my  old  trunks 
down  in  the  basement  because  I  was  elected,  or  named  or  chosen  secre- 
tary for  this  particular  school,  to  keep  notes  on  the  proceedings,  anc 
I  believe  I  still  have  those  notes  somewhere. 

Mr.  TA^^NNER.  Would  you  produce  them  for  a  member  of  our  stafl 
for  our  inspection. 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  will  if  I  can  find  them.  They  were  in  a  notebook- 
well  typed  up  and  decorated  with  pictures. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  type  of  pictures  are  you  speaking  of  ?  Picture; 
of  individuals? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No.  The  pictures  were  of  propaganda  nature.  Noth 
ing  that  would  benefit  the  committee  except  to  find  out  the  result  th( 
school  would  have  on  new  people — how  it  would  influence  your  think 
ing — for  example,  they  would  bring  a  statement  that  Dr.  Alberi 
Einstein  said.  I  remember  that  he  said  at  one  time  that  he  felt  th( 
Soviet  Union  was  the  greatest  force  in  the  world  today — so  I  scurried 
around  and  got  a  picture  of  Albert  Einstein  to  illustrate  this  state- 
ment.    Those  are  the  type  of  pictures  I  am  referring  to. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  persons  attended  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  in  round  numbers  about  a  dozen,  and  I  hav( 
all  their  names  in  this  notebook,  if  I  can  find  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  recall  independently  of  the  notebook  th( 
names  of  any  of  those  who  attended  this  school. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  let  me  see.  Besides  Dick  and  his  wife  Jean, 
there  was  a  Comrade  Bessie. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  a  first  name  or  a  last  name? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  a  first  name,  sir.  A  Comrade  Bessie.  There 
was  also  a  Comrade  Dorothy,  who  was  cross-eyed.  Bessie  was  short 
and  heavy  set — about  48  or  so,  and  Dorothy  was  also  about  that  age, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  their  last  names? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No  I  don't.  Most  of  them  would  give  their  first 
names  as  I  did.     I  went  by  the  name  of  Don. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4629 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  learn  the  last  names  of  any  of  the  persons 
vho  attended? 

Mr.  Sumner.  At  that  time  I  probably  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  that  in  your  notebook? 

Mr.  Sumner.  It  is  possible.    I  don't  recall. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  who  any  of  the  instructors  were  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes.  Dick,  who  was  the  organizer  for  either  the 
;ounty  or  the  city,  and  Bessie.  I  don't  recall  any  of  the  sessions  being 
leld  by  anyone  else,  except  Dick  and  Bessie. 

Mr.  Ta\t.nner.  After  the  completion  of  your  training  at  this  school, 
what  further  connection  did  you  have  with  the  Communist  Party  at 
3an  Diego? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  was  assigned  to  a  unit  there  that  met  at  the  book- 
ihop.  Now  this  was  called — we  met  at  the  bookshop  once  a  week. 
The  unit  was  called  a  mixed  unit.    Why  they  called  it  a  mixed  unit 

am  not  certain.  For  example  I  could  have  been  assigned  to — well 
I  was  working  at  the  county  hospital  which  was  not  organized,  so 
[  guess  it  couldn't  have  been  a  union  group  to  which  I  was  assigned. 
So  I  think  the  reason  it  was  called  a  mixed  unit  was  that  most  of  them 
were  new  people,  except  there  may  have  been  some — well  they  couldn't 
call  them  supporters — but  supporters  from  other  groups  would  be 
in  attendance.  Members  were  left  in  this  unit  and  then  assigned  to 
other  units,  one  by  one. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  recall  the  approximate  date  when  you  were 
assigned  to  this  group? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes;  it  was  right  after  I  had  completed  the  week's 
schooling. 

Mr.  TA\Ti:NNER.  What  year  would  that  be? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  around  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  persons  were  in  the  group  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Twelve.    Oh,  you  mean  in  the  unit  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Around  seven  or  eight.  It  was  less  than  those  who 
were  in  the  school.  All  of  them  that  went  to  the  school  didn't  go  on 
with  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  in  that  group,  or  unit  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  All  right  now.  About  here  my  memory  is  becoming 
hazy.  I  don't  know  just  why,  but  I  can't  remember  how  long  I  was 
in  that  unit,  and  I  can't  remember  what  unit  I  went  to  after  that. 
I  believe  the  next  unit  I  went  into  was  approximately  3  or  4  months 
after  that — and  it  was  a  beach  unit.  It  was  called  the  beach  unit 
because  I  moved  to  Ocean  Beach,  which  was  San  Diego  suburban. 
It  was  composed  of  people  who  lived  in  the  beach  sections,  La  Jolla, 
National  City  Beach,  Point  Loma  Beach,  Mission  Beach,  and  Ocean 
Beach,  and  so  on. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  recall  the  date  when  you  changed  your 
residence  to  that  beach  area  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  can't  recall  the  date,  but  it  must  have  been  in  late 
1939  or  maybe  early  1940. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  persons  composed  the  beach  unit  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  imagine  about  30,  if  all  of  us  got  together.  If  we 
had  a  turnout  of  12  or  13  workers  we  thought  we  were  doing  well. 

Mr.  Ta\tnner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  of  that  unit? 

^  Mr.  Sumner.  Until  the  unit  was  dissolved  and  started  meeting  as  a 

city  unit.    That  would  be — I  can't  think  of  the  year,  but  it  would  have 


4630       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

to  be  about  the  time  that  Hitler  signed  the  nonaggression  pact  with 
the  Soviet  Union,  because  that  was  the  time  the  San  Diego  Communist 
Party  was  most  unpopuhir  and  the  leaders  felt  that  we  should  dissolve 
our  units  and  meet  as  a  city  group.    When  various  units  would  get  i 
together,  I  imagine  they  contacted  the  other  units  in  San  Diego.   When  i 
we  did  get  together  it  was  to  be  by  word  of  mouth,  rather  than  using  | 
a  telephone  or  the  mails  as  heretofore.    If  we  wanted  to  call  the  meet-  : 
ing  for  some  little  reason,  we  would  just  go  around  and  contact  the 
people. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  principal  objective  of  this  unit — the  ■. 
beach  unit  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Our  principal  objective  was — we  felt  or  at  least  I  felt  ) 
it  was  to  hold  study  groups.    We  studied  various  economic  conditions  i 
and  kept  track  of  conditions  and  what  was  going  on  in  the  war.    The  j 
city  organizer  would  come  around  and  he  would  pick  people  fromi 
our  unit  to  go  out  and  do  certain  things — such  as  distributing  leaflets 
and  pamphlets  that  the  party  would  put  out.     We  circulated  the 
People's  World,  which  was  published  in  San  Francisco  on  Saturdays. 
We  sold  them. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  By  this  time  were  you  familiar  enough  with  the 
setup  of  the  organization  of  the  Communist  Party  to  be  able  to  tell 
the  committee  who  the  high  functionaries  were  and  what  positions 
they  held  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  yes.  The  State  man — you  would  hear  the  names 
of  the  State  men  quite  often — such  as  Schneiderman,  Bill,  whose  offices 
were  in  San  Francisco.  Pettis  Perry,  the  Negro,  was  a  State  func- 
tionary, I  believe,  or  he  may  have  been  a  national  functionary  of  th& 
])arty.  He  was  a  heavy  set  Negro.  Anita  Whitney,  who  was  a  State 
functionary — I  believe  it  was  State.  Mother  Bloor.  These  names 
were  pretty  common  among  members  because  we  were  constantly 
reading  pamphlets  put  out  by  these  people. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  functionaries  on  the 
county  level  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  County  functionaries?  They  were  different  at  dif- 
ferent times.  It  seemed  about  every  8  or  9  months  there  would  be  a 
complete  reorganization — someone  would  come  in  and  someone  else- 
would  go  out.  After  Dick  left,  I  believe  the  man  who  replaced  him 
was  Matt — I  believe  his  first  name  was  Matthew.  I  don't  recall  the 
last  name. 

People  who  stayed  were,  however 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  that  name? 
Mr.  Sumner.  People  who  stayed  on,  whether  county  or  not,  were* 
the  Deckers.  I  don't  know  whether  it  was  spelled  D-e-c-k-e-r  or' 
D-e-k-k-e-r.  Frances,  and  what  was  her  husband's  name  now?  It' 
was  Frances  Decker  or  Dekker,  and  I  should  know  it  because  we  al- 
ways said  their  names  in  the  same  breath — would  it  have  been  Bill? 
Anyway  it  was  Decker,  and  her  name  was  Frances. 
Mr.  Doyle.  How  old  a  woman  was  she  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  She  was  young — anywhere  in  her  20's — a  blond. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  position  did  she  hold  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  don't  know  but  she  was  always  there  and  taking! 

an  active  part.     She  could  have  been  a  secretary  but  I  couldn't  say 

for  sure. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4631 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  are  there  any  names  you  can  now  recall  of 
persons  who  were  functionaries  on  the  county  level  ? 

Mr.  Sumner,  I  only  attended  one  meeting — one  county  meeting — 
it  was  for  the  purpose  of  electing  officers  and  that  was  just  before  I 
left  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  1944  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  xVbout  1944, 1  believe  so. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  a  city  committee,  or  executive  commit- 
tee of  the  Communist  Party  in  San  Diego  with  which  you  were 
familiar  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  I  was  always  familiar  with  the  organizer  of 
them.     There  was- 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  the  organizer  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Matt — Matthew.  There  was  a  Vidaver.  Right  now 
1  can't  say  for  sure  if  the  two  names  go  together  or  not,  but  it  sounds 
awfully  familiar. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  j'OU  give  us  the  names  of  any  other  members 
of  the  beach  group  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Beach  Club — yes. 

There  was  a  Jay  and  Alberta  Fonts. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  3'ou  give  any  other  identifying  information 
regarding  them,  such  as  their  occupations  and  their  activities  within 
the  party. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Jay's  activity  was  as  a  garbage  collector,  or  rather  his 
occupation  was. 

Then  there  were  the  Berman's.  The  last  name  was  Berman  and 
the  first  name  was — Mildred  and  Phil  Berman,  I  imagine.  It  may 
have  been  spelled  with  1  "n"  instead  of  2.  Phil,  I  think,  worked  at 
the  Consolidated  Vultee  Aircraft  Corp.  I  don't  believe  Mildred 
worked. 

Then  Al — or  xVlbert  Pitt,  and  his  wife's  name  was — no,  I  don't  re- 
call it. 

There  was  an  Alexander  somebody,  that  we  called  Alex.  He  lived 
m  Ocean  Beach. 

There  was  a  young  couple  from  the  Scripps  Institute,  and  it  was  in 
La  Jolla.  I  believe  it  is  a  part  of  California  Tech,  or  UCLA.  They 
were  studying  oceanography,  or  something  of  that  type  at  Scripps 
in  La  Jolla. 

Then  there  was  a  young  couple — I  think  the  last  name  was  Olsen — 
Dorothy  Olsen.     His  name  doesn't  come  back  to  me. 

There  was  another  young  couple — most  of  them  were  young  couples. 
He  came  in  from  the  United  States  Army  and  was  in  the  group  about 
a  month  or  two  and  was  gone  again,  and  I  can't  recall  his  name.  I 
should  be  able  to  because  he  was  a  so-called  artist  of  the  Home  Front 
News,  of  which  I  was  editor  in  chief.  It  was  a  propaganda  sheet 
which  we  broadcast  or  put  out  from  the  beach  neighborhood — we  ran 
it  off  on  the  mimeograph. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  sponsored  in  any  way  by  the  Beach  cell 
or  group  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes.     We  had  our  name  on  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  general  purpose  of  the  news  sheet 
or  publication  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  general  purpose  was  to — I  wish  I  had  some  copies 
of  that — I  don't  think  I  saved  any  of  those.     I  can  give  you  what  the 


4632        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

nature  of  the  articles  were  that  we  ran.  There  was  one  article  en- 
title4  "Why  Don't  We  Give  Our  Soldiers  the  Vote?"  Then  there 
was  one,  "Wliy  Doesn't  the  Government  Support  Tito  in  Yugoslavia?" 
He  at  that  time  was  in  the  favor  of  Russia.  Another  one  was  on  a 
local  issue,  "Let's  Get  Out  to  the  Polls  and  Elect  So-and-So  as  Mayor," 
and  I  can't  even  remember  the  name  now.  I  got  called  on  the  carpet 
for  that  one  because  they  informed  me  we  weren't  supposed  to  back 
anyone.  I  said,  "Why?  Isn't  he  a  good  man?"  And  they  said, 
"Yes,  but  the  majority  of  the  people  aren't  for  the  Communist  Party 
and  that  is  pretty  likely  to  lose  him  a  lot  of  votes  in  the  Beach  area 
with  the  Communist  name  on  the  bottom  of  the  sheet.  That  was  the 
type  of  thing  we  had  in  the  news  slieet.  Down  at  the  bottom  we  would 
always  say,  "For  information  concerning  the  party,  phone  so-and-so," 
which  was  the  bookshop  address  of  the  city  headquarters  of  the  party. 
Anyhow,  the  phone  was  in  the  book,  and  we  always  said  to  phone 
so-and-so,  or  write  to  so-and-so  for  additional  information. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  was  the  name  of  this  pamphlet  or  news 
sheet? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  Home  Front  News. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  of  the  Beach 
group  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Until  the  units  were  dissolved — not  actually  dis- 
solved, but  we  didn't  meet  anymore  as  groups. 

Mr.  TA^'ENNER.  I  believe  you  said  that  was  approximately  in  the 
period  of  the  signing  of  the  Hitler-Stalin  Pact? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  am  trying  to  rationalize  to  myself  that  that  was 
when  it  happened.  I  am  trying  to  get  clear  in  my  mind  why  the 
units  dissolved  as  such,  and  why  we  met  as  a  city  group.  I  can't 
think  of  any  good  reason  why  it  was  done,  unless  it  was  that  reason. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  your  ex- 
perience in  the  Communist  Party  was,  beginning  at  the  time  that 
the  separate  units  were  disbanded  in  San  Diego  and  you  began  meet- 
ing as  a  city  group.     That  is  correct,  isn't  it,  city  group  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  it  was  county  because — and  yet  I  am  con- 
fused with  the  Grand  Rapids  units.  I  am  putting  the  two  of  them 
together  now  in  my  mind.  I  keep  getting  this  Grand  Rapids  group 
mixed  up  with  San  Diego.  In  San  Diego  it  was  city — it  was  still 
city  in  San  Diego,     We  met  at  a  woman's  club — a  Negro  woman's  club. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well — did  this  club  or  group  know  that  the  meet- 
ings you  were  holding  were  Communist  Party  meetings  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Tell  the  committee  on  what  you  base  this  statement, 
please. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Let's  see — how  did  you — when  we  were  notified  we 
would  just  say  we  were  having  meetings  and  didn't  say  this  was  a 
Communist  group  meeting,  and  we  were  going  to  meet  at  such-and- 
such  a  time  and  would  be  there.  Wlien  we  got  there  we  called  each 
other  comrade  this-and-tliat. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  speaking  of  the  knowledge  that  it  was  a  Com- 
munist Party  meeting,  not  by  the  members  in  attendance,  but  I  am 
talking  now  about  this  woman's  club,  this  Negro  woman's  club  which 
was  allowing  you  to  meet  in  their  quarters. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Oh,  of  that  I  don't  have  any  knowledge.  I  wondered 
myself  sometimes  about  that. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4633 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  far  as  your  testimony,  you  couldn't  say  this 
relsvoman's  club  knew  of  the  purpose  of  the  meetings  held  by  you  in 
;heir  club  quarters,  or  that  it  was  a  Communist  Party  group  that  was 
neeting  there  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  To  my  knowledge  they  didn't  know  that — however,  I 
couldn't  say  for  sure  one  way  or  another. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  please  tell  us  your  experiences  from  time 
to  time  in  the  city  wide  group  meetings  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Usually  they  would  get  an  outside  speaker  who  would 
come  down  from  Frisco  and  Los  Angeles.  I  know  Pettis  Perry  was 
there  once — -a  Negro  man,  and  I  believe  he  was  from  Frisco. 

There  were  others  whose  names  I  don't  recall.  I  saw  them  once  or 
twice  perhaps — but  the  name  of  Pettis  Perry  sticks  with  me.  I  just 
saw  him  that  once,  and  of  course  it  was  all  after  Hitler  attacked  the 
Soviet  Union  and  then  we  completely  swung  over  into  the  war  effort. 
It  was  a  complete  switch.  You  had  to  be  able  to  turn  some  pretty 
quick  somersaults  overnight  from  time  to  time. 

We  were  told  to  cooperate  in  every  way  with  the  war  effort  and 
whatever  we  did,  and  whatever  we  did  to  not  do  it  in  a  way  as  though 
we  knew  it  all.  They  told  us  "You  are  going  to  even  find  some  people 
among  the  American  Red  Cross  and  various  safety  organizations 
around  the  towns  that  can  teach  you  a  lot,  and  to  become  affiliated  with 
these  groups."  We  were  to  join  a  safety  group  of  some  kind — take 
first  aid  coui"ses,  so  that  in  case  of  attack  we  can  be  right  out  there  in 
front.  We  were  to  be  on  record  to  be  outstanding  because  the  party 
might  get  to  the  place  where  it  is  looked  upon  pretty  favorably  in 
some  circles  and  the  harder  we  worked  for  the  war  effort,  the  more 
favorable  our  position  would  become. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AAHiat  was  the  source  of  those  directives? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Men  like  Pettis  Perry  that  would  come  in  from 
Frisco. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  the  meetings  addressed  by  Pettis  Perry  and 
other  persons  holding  similar  positions  closed  meetings  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  or  were  they  open  meetings  that  is,  open  to  non-Com- 
munist Party  members? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  they  were  closed.  To  my  knowledge  no  in- 
vitations were  given  out  except  to  party  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  did  you  receive  your  notice  to  attend  such 
meetings  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  At  that  time,  I  believe,  they  were  using  the  telephone 
again.     They  were  notifying  us  by  phone. 

Mr.  Taa-enner.  Who  were  the  leaders  of  the  county  group  at  that 
time  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Wlio  were  the  leaders? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  city  group,  I  believe  it  would  be,  wouldn't  it? 
The  city  group  in  San  Diego  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  ask  you  first  ?  How  many  persons  composed 
the  city  group  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  There  was  the  old  beach  unit,  which  was  made  up  of 
approximately  30  members.  There  was  a  professional  unit — I  don't 
Imow  what  their  membership  would  be.  That  would  be  made  up  of 
teachers  and  people  of  that  nature.    There  were  union  groups,  labor 

47718— 54— pt.  3 3 


4634        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

union  units — an  old  labor  union  unit.  I  don't  know  how  many  mem- 
bers they  had  because  I  never  attended  one.  And  then  there  were 
members  at  large,  or  something  of  that  sort.  I  don't  know  how  they 
met  or  how  they  held  themselves  together,  but  once  in  a  while  a 
member  at  large  would  attend  this  city  group.  The  membership  took 
an  active  part  in  discussions,  but  had  very  little  directives.  You 
couldn't  get  up  and  say  "let's  do  this  or  do  that."  You  would  act  on 
a  suggestion — perhaps  it  would  be  made  by  the  Chair,  and  the  Chair 
was  the  organizer^ — someone  like  Pettis  Perry,  who  addressed  the 
group,  and  the  Chair  would  say,  for  instance :  "You  have  heard  the 
presentation.  The  motions  are  in  order,  and  what  is  your  desire  to 
carry  out  this  program?" 

Mr.  Tavenner.  About  how  man}^  organizations  composed  this  city 
group  of  the  Communist  Party,  roughly  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  There  must  have  been  about  80  members  anyway  in 
San  Diego,  but  if  w^e  had  25  members — if  25  turned  out  for  the  city 
group,  it  would  be  good. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  occupy  any  position  with  the  city  group 
at  any  time,  such  as  secretary  or  treasurer,  or  any  other  position  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  no. 

Mr.  Taa^nner.  Do  you  know  who  the  chairman  was  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  chairman  would  have  been  the  city  organizer. 
This  Matt,  whom  I  think  had  a  last  name  of  Devalo — he  had  a  little 
moustache,  and  Morgan  Hull  was  the  organizer  at  that  time.    He  was- 
in  there  just  a  short  period  of  time  and  then  gone. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  who  succeeded  Morgan  Hull? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  I  think  Morgan  Hull,  as  I  recall,  was  the  organ- 
izer at  the  time  I  left  San  Diego,  but  who  succeeded  him  I  don't 
know,  because  I  attended  a  county  meeting  just  before  leaving  San 
Diego  and  I  am  pretty  sure  it  was  Morgan  Hull  who  chaired  that 
meeting.  I  think  he  was  a  county  organizer.  I  think  he  chaired  that 
meeting. 

Mr.  Ta\"enner.  Can  you  recall  at  this  time  any  of  the  names  of  the 
members  at  large  who  attended  these  meetings? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  members  at  large — uh — no  sir.  They  were  dif- 
ferent at  each  time — there  were  always  some  people  that  were  always 
there.  There  would  be  a  half-dozen  people  wdio  were  always  there. 
The  rest  of  them  you  would  see  once  and  not  see  them  again. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  the  names  of  any  of  the  members 
at  large  in  San  Diego  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  I  don't. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  referred  to  members  of  the  professional  group 
having  attended  the  city  wide  meetings? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  recall  the  names  of  any  of  the  members  of 
the  professional  gi'oup  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  I  can't  on  that  either.  I  don't — they  attended 
rarely — they  would  send  a  delegate,  who  as  I  recall  vras  n  differ  -it 
person  each  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  list  of  names  for  the  purpose  of  en- 

deavoinng  to  refresh  your  recollection  of  party  members  in  San  Diego. 

'  Will  you  examine  this  list  and  if  this  list  refreshes  your  recollection, 

tell  the  committee,  please,  the  names  of  any  appearing  thereon  who 

were  known  to  you  to  have  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party? 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4635 

If  there  is  any  individual  you  are  not  certain  about  do  not  mention 
his  name  or  make  reference  to  it  in  your  testimony. 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  don't  recall  any  of  these  names,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well.  Will  you  give  the  committee  the  names 
of  any  persons  known  to  you  to  have  been  members  of  the  Communist 
Party  who  attended  any  of  the  meetings  to  which  you  have  referred  ? 

Mr.  SuTviNER.  Yes,  this  Alexander  I  named  in  the  first  part  of  the 
testimony.  His  first  name  has  come  to  me.  It  is  Ben  Alexander.  I 
am  trying  to  think  of  any  other  names  —  no  —  I  can't  recall  any  other 
names  at  this  time  at  least  beyond  the  names  I  have  already  mentioned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  stated  that  you  were  a  member  of  a  group  of  the 
Communist  Party  just  prior  to  your  moving  to  the  beach  area  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  didn't  ask  you  the  names  of  those  associated  with 
you  at  that  time,  or  of  that  group.  Will  you  search  your  memory  on 
that? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Largely  that  was  the  same  group  who  attended  the 
preliminary  schooling  which  they  gave  us. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  you  have  stated  that  this  group  was  largely 
the  same  as  the  group  who  attended  the  school  with  you,  and  that  you 
believed  that  you  can  reproduce  their  names  accurately  from  your 
notes,  if  you  are  able  to  find  them  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  am  hoping  so.  I  know  I  put  them  down  in  the  bot- 
tom of  an  old  trunk. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  incidents 
occurred  during  the  time  you  met  with  the  city  wide  group  of  the 
Communist  Party  until  the  time  you  left  San  Diego  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  don't  quite  get  the  nature  of  the  question  there.  It 
isn't  clear  to  me  what  you  mean. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  want  to  know  what  particular  activities  the  Com- 
munist Party  engaged  in  during  the  period  of  time  you  are  now  testi- 
fying about ;  that  is,  from  the  time  you  began  attending  the  city  wide 
meetings  of  the  Connnunist  Party  until  the  time  you  left  San  Diego. 
Any  activities  Avhich  would  throw  some  light  on  the  character  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  distribution  of  literature  throughout  the  town, 
such  as  the  People's  World.  Also  an  active  part  in  any  campaign 
which  would  come  up.  The  party  would  determine  which  men,  or 
group  of  men  they  said  were  the  most  liberal.  You  can  put  quotation 
marks  around  the  word  "liberal"  if  you  like — at  least  that  was  the  word 
they  used  for  most  progressive-liberals. 

Also  the  passing  out  of  circulars.  Also  there  was  an  organization 
which  was  chaired  by  a  Communist  functionary — I  can't  recall  the 
name,  but  he  was  tall  and  blonde  and  young.  This  was  the  Americans 
for  Democratic  Action  organization,  at  least  that  is  the  name  in  my 
mind  right  now. 

Also  we  supported  the  campaign  of  Governor  Olsen  and  Leo  Gal- 
lagher. Those  two  names  I  can  remember,  but  I  can't  name  any  others. 
We  went  around  nailing  up  billboards  all  over  town  on  this. 

I  believe  it  was  during  this  time — no,  that  must  have  been  earlier — 
an  organization,  or  a  letter-writing  campaign  it  actually  was — to 
organize  as  many  people  as  possible  to  get  interested  in  a  letter-writ- 
ing campaign  to  Congress  to  free  Tom  Mooney  from  prison.  Mass 
meetings  were  held  at  the  Methodist  Church  in  San  Diego  for  this. 


4636        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Those  mass  meetings  were  not  held  under  the  name 
of  the  Communist  Party,  were  they  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No.  Not  under  the  name  of  the  Communist  Party, 
but  we  sponsored,  or  supported  and  worked  in  and  through  these  meet- 
ings, to  make  sure  there  was  plenty  of  literature  passed  out,  and  that 
type  of  thing. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  w^hom  did  you  pay  Communist  Party  dues  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  in  the  city  we  were  paying  to  Frances 
Decker. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  whether  there 
were  any  instances  that  you  know  of  in  which  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  were  disciplined  for  a  deviation  from  what  was  con- 
sidered to  be  Communist  Party  directives  or  the  Communist  Party 
line  ?    If  so,  will  you  tell  the  committee  about  them  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  first  instance  that  comes  to  my  mind  resulted 
from  a  discussion  that  the  party  was  having  on  the  Negro  situation. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Clyde  Doyle  left  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Sumner.  This  particular  party  member — I  don't  recall  his 
name — said  that  the  Negro  people  were — I  am  trying  to  think  now  just 
how  he  put  it — that  the  Negro  people  were  a  minorit}^  part  of  this  Na- 
tion, and  the  leader  jumped  up  immediately  and  said  "The  Negro 
people  are  a  nation  themselves."  The  member  got  up  again  and  said 
"Why  do  you  say  the  Negro  people  are  a  nation  in  themselves  ?  They 
have  no  government  and  no  organization."  The  leader  then  said,  "You 
don't  understand  the  meaning  of  the  word  'nation.'  A  nation  is  a 
group  of  people  who  have  a  common  interest — common  background — 
and  who  have  developed  over  a  period  of  years  why  they  have  because 
of  their  economic  conditions,  and  whether  they  are  organized  into  an 
official  government  or  not,  that  makes  them  an  official  nation."  The 
gentleman  from  the  floor  said  he  couldn't  understand  that  at  all — that 
it  didn't  make  sense  to  him — so  the  Chair  informed  him  he  was  out  of 
order  and  not  to  discuss  it  anymore  but  to  come  to  him  after  the 
meeting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlio  was  the  leader  of  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  it  was  this  Matt. 

Then  there  was  another  one  on  the  Jewish  situation.  I  believe  this 
was  away  back  in  the  bookshop.  I  never  could  put  these  two  together 
in  my  mind  because  they  seemed  to  me  to  be  quite  the  opposite  of  what 
was  said  in  the  case  of  the  Negro  people.  In  the  course  of  the  conversa- 
tion one  was  asked  "What  would  be  your  definition  of  a  Jew?"  He 
said  it  would  be  a  person  who  belongs  to  the  Jewish  race,  and  the 
leader,  who  was  this  Dick,  but  I  don't  recall  his  last  name,  said,  "That 
is  where  you  are  entirely  wrong.  The  Jewish  people  are  not  a  race — 
they  are  a  religion."  He  said,  "If  a  Catholic  would  renounce  his 
religion  tomorrow  and  accept  the  Jewish  orthodoxy,  he  would  be  a 
Jew,  or  if  a  Jew  would  renounce  his  Jewish  orthodoxy  and  accept 
Catholicism,  he  would  be  a  Catholic."  The  man  from  the  floor  said 
"That  doesn't  make  sense  to  me.  It  seems  to  me  they  are  a  race  of 
people  who  have  developed  over  a  period  of  time  and  have  the  Jewish 
blood."  The  leader  got  mad  and  said  "There  is  no  difference  in  the 
blood  of  a  Jew  or  of  the  blood  of  an  Irishman."  They  got  into  quite 
an  argument  and  it  ended  up  the  same  way.  "See  me  after  the 
meeting." 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4637 

In  my  mind  this  seemed  to  be  a  kind  of  an  opposite  approach  and 
I  conld  never  figure  out  the  difference. 

Tlie  only  time  I  was  ever  reprimanded  was  in  the  first  meeting 
when  I  answered  the  question  that  communism  would  be  good  for 
the  entire  country. 

Mr.  TA^^ENNER.  "Were  there  any  postal  employees  in  San  Diego  who 
were  members  of  the  Communist  Party  at  the  same  time  that  you  were  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  doubt  it  very  much.  If  there  had  been  I  would 
have  seen  them  at  one  meeting  or  the  other. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  testified  that  you  left  San  Diego  in  1944  and 
went  to  Grand  Rapids,  Mich.  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  type  of  work  were  you  engaged  in  in  Grand 
Rapids? 

Mr.  Sumner.  In  Grand  Rapids  the  first  thing  I  did  out  in  the  coun- 
fry — it  was  a  rural  community  about  30  miles  out  of  Grand  Rapids — 
was  to  lease  some  property  there  and  I  went  into  "muck  farming," 
or  what  we  called  "muck  farming"  there,  and  raised  onions  and 
cabbages. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Did  you  affiliate  with  any  party  there  at  Grand 
Rapids? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  how  that  was  done? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  took  the  address  in  the  phone  book.  They  had  given 
me  a  letter  in  San  Diego  of  transfer  to  Grand  Rapids. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  gave  you  the  letter  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  organizer  would  be  Morgan  Hull.  I  had  an  ini- 
tial on  it,  but  Frances  Decker  gave  the  letter  to  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  stated  in  the  letter? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  believe  it  was  a  sealed  letter,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  whom  was  it  addressed  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  To  the  Grand  Rapids  Communist  Party ;  that  is,  on 
the  outside  there  was  no  address  but  must  have  been  on  the  inside 
like  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  did  you  do  Avith  the  letter? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  burned  it. 

]Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  deliver  it  to  the  Communist  Party  head- 
quarters in  Grand  Rapids? 

Mr,  Sumner.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  did  you  make  your  contact  with  the  Commu- 
nist Party  in  Grand  Rapids  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  When  I  got  to  Grand  Rapids  I  didn't  know  whether 
I  wanted  to  get  into  it  or  not.  There  was  a  long  period  that  I  didn't 
contact  them.  It  ran  on  for  several  months  and  one  day,  out  of 
curiosity  as  much  as  anything  else,  I  looked  it  up  in  the  phone  book. 

Here  again  it  was  in  a  bookshop  in  Grand  Rapids,  on  Bond  Avenue. 
I  told  them  of  my  membersliip  in  San  Diego  and  they  said  "Wliere 
have  you  been  all  this  time?"  I  said  "I  have  been  trying  to  find  you, 
and  that  I  had  a  letter  of  transfer  and  wasn't  too  certain  that  I  wanted 
to  get  started  right  away  on  this  again." 

He  was  pretty  mad  and  said,  "Even  if  you  lost  or  mislaid  the  letter, 
you  could  have  found  us.  I  don't  see  why  you  took  all  this  time  get- 
ting here.     There  are  some  back  dues  to  pay,  and  if  you  are  going  to 


4638        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

belong  to  this  group  here  you  are  going  to  have  to  buckle  down  because 
we  don't  do  that  sort  of  thing  here."  He  proceeded  to  read  me  off 
pretty  seriously. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  his  name? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Muelder,  M-u-e-1-d-e-r,  I  think  it  was  spelled.  It  was 
his  last  name  and  I  can't  think  of  his  first  name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  unite  w4th  the  Communist  Party  in  Grand 
Kapids? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes.  I  paid  him  my  dues  when  I  was  in  there  and  he 
said  a  card  would  be  issued  to  me  later.  They  first  wanted  to  check  to 
see  if  I  had  done  anything  I  shouldn't  have  according  to  the  Com- 
munist doctrine.     They  made  some  type  of  investigation,  I  imagine. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How^  many  members  composd  the  Connnunist  Party 
group  in  Grand  Rapids? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Grand  Rapids — I  believe  30  or  35  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  principal  activity  in  which  that  group 
engaged  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Holding  meetings.  Passing  out  leaflets  at — I  am 
trying  to  think  of  the  name  of  that  place  out  in  suburban  Grand 
Rapids — it  was  a  big  plant  out  there.  Oh,  I  believe  it  was  General 
Motors.    Passing  out  leaflets  at  the  gate  when  they  would  come  out. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  the  leaflets  prepared  by  the  Communist  Party 
and  carrying  the  Connnunist  Party  line  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  As  I  recall  it,  they  had  the  name  of  the  Communist 
Party  on  the  leaflets  usually — yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  other  activity  was  this  group  engaged  in? 

Mr.  Sumner.  That  is  the  only  thing  I  can  think  of — the  only  thing 
I  ever  did,  or  the  only  thing  I  was  ever  asked  to  do.  Weekends  I  was 
to  distribute  the  Daily  Worker.  Oh,  I  remember  another  one.  To 
make  a  door-to-door  canvass  of  the  town  as  closely  as  possible,  which 
of  course  was  never  accomplished  because  there  weren't  enough  mem- 
bers to  go  around.  We  w^ere  assigned  areas  to  make  a  door-to-door 
canvass  to  get  the  Communist  Party  on  the  ballot  in  the  State  of  Mich- 
igan.    They  had  to  have  so  many  signatures  in  order  to  make  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  year  that  was  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Let's  see — the  last  election  was  in  1950,  right? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Sumner.  It  must  have  been — it  must  have  been  just  prior  to 
1946.     That  would  be  in  1945. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlio  were  the  leaders  of  the  group  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  have  been  thinking  in  terms  of  San  Diego  so  long 
it  is'  hard  to  switch  now  to  Grand  Rapids. 

Well — the  very  active  ones  w^ere  Kay  Tenet,  or  T-e-n-n-e-n-t — it 
may  have  been  spelled  either  way,  but  it  was  Kay,  although  Kay 
wasn't  her  real  name.  That  is  the  name  she  went  by  but  her  name 
wasn't  Kay.  I  don't  remember  what  it  was  now,  but  she  had  told  me 
later  what  it  was. 

Abe  S-a-b-o-l-i-n-s-k-i.  That  is  the  young  Abe,  not  his  father. 
His  father  was  not  a  member  because  he  was  foreign-born  and  they 
wouldn't  accept  him. 

(At  this  point  in  the  hearing  Mr.  Tavenner  asked  to  be  excused  for 
a  time  and  Donald  T.  Appell,  committee  investigator  assumed  the 
questioning  of  the  witness.) 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4639 

Mr.  Appell.  Is  young  Sabolinski  Abe  or  Tom  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Abe.  He  had  a  brother  killed  in  the  war.  I  don't 
remember  his  name  though. 

Mr.  Appell.  Did  Abe  Sabolinski  contribute  to  the  party  activities 
in  Grand  Rapids? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  Senior  Abe? 

Mr.  Appell.  Yes,  the  father. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Appell.  Both  financial  and  otherwise? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Appell.  Do  you  know  any  specific  financial  contribution  he 
made  to  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  No,  except  I  believe  I  have  heard  him  saying  so.  I 
didn't  see  him  hand  out  the  money  to  them.  He  told  me  he  had  given 
money  from  time  to  time  to  them. 

The  young  Abe  that  you  just  told  me  off  the  record  had  been  killed 
told  me  "I  am  going  out  on  a  campaign  to  get  some  money  and  I  know 
Dad  will  give  some,  but  gee  whiz,  I  don't  want  Dad  to  do  it  all." 

Mr.  Appell.  What  type  of  unit  of  the  party  were  you  assigned  to 
there?  The  neighborhood  group?  What  was  its  Communist  Party 
name  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Thfe  West  Side  Group  was  the  name  of  ours. 

Mr.  Appell.  Who  were  the  members  of  the  West  Side  Club,  as  best 
you  can  recall? 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  Sabolinskis  attended.  Kay  Tenet  attended. 
Theodore  Theodore,  whom  we  called  Ted.  That  was  his  first  and  last 
name.    His  wife  was  colored. 

Mr.  Appell.  Let  me  ask  you  if  you  knew  certain  individuals  from 
the  Grand  Rapids  area.  I  will  name  them  and  you  can  answer  either 
«Yes''  or  "No." 

Fred  Fields? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Fred  Fields;  yes. 

Mr.  AppEiiL.  Was  he  a  member  of  the  West  Side  Club  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Fred  Fields — let's  see,  what  was  he  now — he  held 
some  kind  of  an  office  for  a  time  in  Grand  Rapids,  but  I  don't  recall 
what  office  it  was. 

Mr.  Appell.  Ruth  Gilbert  ?    Her  maiden  name  was  Williams. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Ruth  Williams — I  remember  that  name. 

Mr.  Appell.  How  about  William  Glenn? 

Mr.  Sumner.  William  Glenn,  yes,  and  his  wife,  Virginia.  William 
and  Virginia  Glenn;  yes. 

Mr.  Appell.  Mike  Redick^ 

Mr.  Sumner.  Mike  Redick,  yes.  He  was  also,  besides  being  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party,  an  insurance  collector  for  the  Interna- 
tional Rural  Order  of  the  IWO. 

Mr.  Appell.  Did  you  hold  any  office  within  the  party  there  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Outside  of  the  local  unit,  you  mean  ? 

Mr.  Appell.  That  is  the  Communist  Party  itself. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes,  in  the  Connnunist  Party  itself  in  a  unit  capacity. 
I  was  twice  educational  director  of  the  unit. 

Mr.  Appell.  Wlio  was  chairman  of  the  unit  of  the  West  Side  Club  ? 


4640        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA  I 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  it  was  chaired  by  the  city  organizer.  He 
would  go  around  and  chair  tlie  units.  He  also  chaired  the  city  meet- 
ings that  were  held  at  the — no,  it  wasn't  a  city  meeting.  We  met  at 
Kay  Tenet's  house.     She  had  a  big  house  there. 

Mr.  Appell.  The  party  at  Grand  Rapids  was  always  a  large  organi- 
zation as  far  as  the  rest  of  Michigan  was  concerned,  outside  of  Flint? 

Mr.  Sumner.  It  was  the  largest  organization  in  western  Michigan, 
to  my  knowledge.  When  we  would  get  together  at  Kay  Tenet's  house, 
which  was  the  western  Michigan  section,  there  were  members  coming 
in  from  Muskegon,  Benton  Harbor,  St.  Joe's,  and  Cadillac.  We  had  2 
from  Muskegon,  maybe  2  from  St.  Joe,  and  maybe  1  from  Ludington. 

Mr.  Appell.  The  St.  Joe  group  had  a  larger  unit,  but  they  had  a 
good  concentration  at  Benton  Harbor.  The  people  who  would  come 
to  the  Tenet  house  were  delegates  from  the  St.  Joe  area? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  anyone  could  attend.  Someone  was  supposed 
to  represent  the  group,  but  anyone  from  these  towns  could  come. 
In  fact,  they  wanted  them  to  come.  There  were  about  six  who  came  in 
from  Muskegon  and  they  were  pretty  happy  about  them. 

Mr.  Appell.  Do  you  recall  the  identity  of  anyone  from  St.  Joe 
or  Benton  Harbor?  This  Kay  Tenet,  for  instance.  I  don't  know  if 
5  ou  went  into  that  previously,  but  if  not,  what  was  her  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  She  was  related  in  some  way  to  a  furniture  manu- 
facturer. I  don't  know  just  what  the  relationship  was.  She  was 
single,  and  I  don't  know  if  she  had  been  married  or  not  but  she  was 
single  at  the  time  I  knew  her.  She  must  have  been  in  her  fifties 
and  she  would  I'un  an  advertisement  or  maybe  2  or  3  advertisements 
in  a  national  magazine,  such  as  the  Better  Homes  and  Gardens,  and 
magazines  of  that  nature,  in  whicli  she  would  advertise  a  single 
chair — just  one  chair  that  this  relative  of  hers  would  manufacture, 
and  he  would  give  her  the  commission  evidently  on  all  the  chairs 
she  sold  as  a  result  of  the  advertisement.  I  guess  she  sold  quite  a 
few.  As  far  as  I  know  she  only  used  this  way  of  making  a  living 
and  she  evidently  did  very  well  at  it.  She  was  pretty  influential 
in  town.  She  knew  a  lot  of  influential  people.  I  don't  know  too 
much  of  her  background  but  she  knew  everybody.  She  knew  min- 
isters— she  knew  the  chairman  of  the  board  of  education — she  held 
dinner  parties  at  her  home  where  she  would  invite  different  people 
and  different  speakers.  She  was — well  frankly,  I  considered  her 
the  most  intelligent  member  of  the  Grand  Rapids  group  and  I  felt 
pretty  close  to  her.  My  wife  and  I  both  did.  We  were  friendly 
and  I  still  feel  that  way. 

Mr.  Appell.  As  of  the  time  you  left  there  was  she  still  close  to  the 
party  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes,  and  she  is  now,  as  far  as  I  know.  I  can't  figure 
just  why.  She  has  got  too  much  on  the  ball  to  waste  her  time  in 
there. 

Mr.  Appell.  When  did  you  break  with  the  Communist  Party  at 
Grand  Rapids? 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  didn't  break.  I  never  notified  them  that  I  was  leav- 
ing. Grand  Rapids  may  still  feel — and  Fran  Decker  too — they  may 
still  be  under  the  impression  that  I  still  am  a  party  member  somewhere. 

Mr.  Appell.  She  was  in  San  Diego? 

Mr.  Sumner.  That's  right.  Probably  Fran  still  thinks  so.  I 
imagine  everyone  with  whom  I  have  been  in  contact  within  the  party 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4641 

thinks  I  am  still  a  member,  but  the  officials  wouldn't  think  so  because 
if  they  have  checked  the  national  headquarters  they  would  find  my 
;idues  haven't  been  paid  for  the  last  6  years. 

Mr.  Appell.  You  ceased  all  party  activities? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes,  I  went  on  the  road  for  my  company  while  my 
family  still  lived  at  Grand  Rapids  and  I  have  had  no  connection 
with  the  party  since  then. 

Mr.  Appell.  When  was  that  roughly  ?     Sometime  in  1949  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Well,  let's  see.  I  have  been  with  the  company  for  5 
years  and  I  spent  a  year  of  that  at  Grand  Rapids,  so  I  went  on  the 
road  for  the  company  4  years  ago. 

Mr.  Appell.  So  it  was  really  1949  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes.  1948  or  so.  Or  1949  or  somewhere  in  there. 
Four  years  ago. 

Mr.  Appell.  I  would  like  to  give  you  an  opportunity  at  this  time, 
if  you  desire,  to  put  into  the  record  why  you  began  your  membership 
in  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Sumner.  I  think  it  goes  back  to  religion.  I  was  raised  in  a 
very  strict  religious  family.  I  mean  very  strict.  Smoking  was  a 
sin —  cardplaying  was  a  sin — wearing  a  necktie  was  a  sin — wearing 
jewelry  was  a  sin — and  of  course  dancing  and  all  this  type  of  activity 
were  sin — movies  and  basketball,  and  so  on.  And  yet  my  parents 
were  very  sincere  Christians.  I  am  not  saying  anything  against  the 
religion  as  such. 

Well,  anyhow,  up  until  the  time  I  was  graduated  from  high  school 
I  lived  under  this  type  of  association,  not  only  in  my  family  life  but 
with  people  who  believed  in  the  same  way.  We  had  one  minister — I 
hope  I  am  not  making  this  too  big  but  the  reason  I  would  like  to  say 
this  is  that  I  think  it  can  give  you  some  of  the  psychology  the  Com- 
munist Party  can  use  in  working  on  people's  minds  and  getting  them 
in.  They  have  some  pretty  damn  good  psychologists  in  there.  To 
get  back,  we  had  one  minister  who  said  in  Sunday  School  one  morn- 
ing— "You  are  going  to  hear,  when  you  get  out  in  the  world — you 
are  going  to  hear  of  modernism  in  religion.  For  example,  they  will 
tell  you  the  reason  the  walls  of  Jericho  fell  down  when  the  children 
marched  around  them" — if  you  will  pardon  me,  my  Dad  is  dead, 
and  talking  of  this  brings  it  all  back  to  me — "they  will  tell  you  the 
reason  this  happened  was  because  of  certain  vibrations,  etc.  In  other 
words,  they  will  tell  you  the  Bible  can  be  explained  b}'  rational  means." 

That  is  where — I  didn't  know  I  was  doing  it — but  that  was  where  I 
first  began  to  doubt  many  of  the  things  the  church  was  teaching  me, 
and  one  day  when  I  was  in  Grand  Rapids  I  was  walking  down  the 
street  and  saw  a  big  sign  upon  one  of  the  churches  in  town  there  that 
we  as  children  were  told  never  to  go  into.  The  sign  said  "Preston 
Bradley  will  speak  here  Thursday  night."  I  didn't  know  who  he  was, 
but  I  went  anyhow  and  it  turned  out  he  was  the  minister  of  the  First 
Unitarian  Church  in  Chicago.  He  talked  of  Thomas  Paine,  the  early 
American  radical.  Preston  Bradley  just  about  murdered  me  that 
night,  as  far  as  all  my  past  thinking  of  religion  was  concerned.  I 
came  out  of  there  terrifically  upset.  I  had  nothing  to  look  to  because  it 
seemed  all  my  past  foundations  were  torn  out  from  under  me — so  I 
entered  on  a  period  where  I  went  to  every  church  I  could  find.  Cath- 
olic, Jewish,  Protestant,  Christian  Science,  even  Spiritualism,  because 
I  was  seeking  for  something.    At  that  time  I  hadn't  found  it — I  mean 

47718— 54— pt.  3—4 


4642        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

when  I  was  on  board  the  ship  while  I  was  in  the  service — in  the 
Marine  Corps  on  board  the  Tuscaloosa.  I  came  across  these  men 
and  they  were  a  group  of  men  who  were  talking  about  religion,  and 
because  I  was  still  seeking  for  something  I  was  interested  and  stopped 
to  listen  to  them.  This  was  an  entirely  new  thing  to  me — the  things 
they  were  talking  about,  and  the  general  tone  of  their  conversation 
was  that  Jesus  Christ  was  no  supernatural  man — he  was  just  a  car- 
penter. And  yet,  according  to  my  past  training,  and  so  on,  these  men 
were  what  the  majority  of  people  would  consider  very  antireligious. 
I  considered  them  to  be  so,  too,  at  that  time,  and  still  do  in  about  50 
percent  of  what  they  had  to  say. 

So,  as  I  mentioned  earlier  in  my  testimony  here,  I  asked  them  if 
there  was  some  kind  of  group  that  met  and  discussed  these  things, 
and  that  I  was  interested.  This  turned  out  to  be  my  first  Communist 
Party  meeting,  and  they  gave  me  a  party  card.  I  had  taken  a  buddy 
of  mine  who  was  aboard  the  same  ship  with  me,  and  we  both  went 
to  this  meeting.  Wlien  we  got  there,  however,  they  weren't  discussing 
religion  at  all,  but  the  trade-union  movement. 

Mr.  Appell.  If  I  may  interrupt  here — the  meeting  in  the  church 
where  Preston  Bradley  spoke — was  that  at  Grand  Rapids  or  in  Chi- 
cago? 

Mr.  Sumner.  Grand  Eapids.  He  was  a  minister  of  the  First 
Unitarian  Church  in  Chicago,  but  he  was  speaking  in  Grand  Rapids. 
He  is  a  good  loyal  American,  and  I  didn't  mean  to  infer  he  was  not. 
I  am  a  native  of  Grand  Rapids. 

Mr.  Appell.  The  conversation  you  overheard  aboard  the  Tusca- 
loosa— when  was  that  ? 

Mr.  Sumner.  That  was  approximately  a  year  before  I  received  my 
medical  discharge  from  the  Marine  Corps.  It  must  have  been  around 
1938  or  1939. 

Mr.  Appell.  These  men  that  you  heard  talking — were  they  aboard 
the  Tuscaloosa% 

Mr.  Sumner.  Yes.  Our  ship  was  in  dry  dock  at  Vallejo,  actually 
at  San  Pedro — getting  work  done  on  it — some  spot- welding,  repairing 
the  bulkhead  and  so  on.  These  men  were  civilians  employed  by  the 
Navy  yard.  When  I  asked  them  about  a  meeting  they  said  if  I  would 
come  to  such  and  such  a  place  I  would  hear  more  about  it.  So  I  took 
this  friend  of  mine  with  me  and  we  didn't  know  until  we  got  there  that 
it  was  a  Communist  Party  meeting. 

Wliy  did  I  join?  I  guess  I  joined  because  of  ignorance,  for  one 
thing.  For  one  thing,  ignorance  of  the  full  scope  or  meaning  of  tlie 
Communist  movement.  For  another  thing,  I  was  looking  for  some- 
thing to  fill  the  big  hole  I  had  in  my  life. 

This  particular  meeting,  however,  was — like  I  said — all  on  trade- 
union  movement  things,  which  was  entirely  over  my  head  because  I 
knew  nothing  about  the  trade-union  movement  at  that  time.  They 
asked  if  we  wanted  to  join  the  group  and  things  like  where  were  we 
born,  and  so  on,  and  were  passing  out  the  cards.  My  buddy  and  I 
decided  to  join  for  the  fun  of  it  ancl  we  did.  They  gave  us  a  bunch  of 
literature  to  read  and  we  went  back  on  board  the  ship. 

I  read  the  literature  and  I  didn't  realize  it  at  that  particular  time 
but  the  literature  they  gave  us  to  read — to  take  back  on  board  the 
ship — was  literature  on  discrimination  against  the  Jewish  people — 
discrimination  against  the  Negro  people  and  articles  along  the  line  as 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4643 

to  what  we  must  have  in  this  country,  such  as  a  complete  brotherhood, 
and  so  on.  I  think  if  I  had  a  different  background — and  these  people 
knew  ^vhat  kind  of  pamphlets  to  give  me,  for  instance  because  they 
played  on  my  past  religious  experience  and  it  made  sense.  The  danger 
of  the  thing  is  that  once  they  get  you  started  and  you  become  inter- 
ested, you  are  taken  along  enough,  inch  by  inch  and  foot  by  foot  until 
linally  you  wake  up  to  the  fact  that  you  have  accepted  a  lot  of  things 
that  you  don't  really  accept.  For  example,  there  is  a  terrific  amount 
of  hero  worship  involved.  Every  time  Stalin  opened  his  mouth  and 
Browder  opened  his  mouth  and  said  this  or  that,  you  said,  "Yea, 
Stalin"  or  "Yea,  Browder"  and  it  was  the  gospel  truth,  and  you  ac- 
cepted it.  This  was  what  I  was  particularly  interested  in  getting 
away  from.  Now,  here  I  was  arriving  at  a  place — and  I  could  see  it — 
where  it  didn't  make  sense  to  believe  it  just  because  Stalin  opened 
his  mouth  and  said  something  and  you  had  to  swallow  it,  any  more 
than  that  it  was  a  sin  to  wear  a  necktie  or  a  ring.  So  there  was  this 
terrific  amount  of  hero  worship  involved.  Also  you  were  expected 
to  reverse  your  thinking  overnight  on  major  issues — such  as  when 
Hitler  and  Stalin  signed  the  nonaggression  pact,  then  we  were  sup- 
posed to  be  against  war.  Just  as  soon  as  Hitler  attacked  the  Soviet 
Union,  the  America  First  Committee  became  eager  for  war.  I  haven't 
the  kind  of  mind  to  do  that. 

Why  you  go  on  and  continue  to  be  a  member — that  is  something 
which  I  wish  somebody  would  tell  me.  Frankly,  I  don't  understand 
it  but  you  are  always  waiting  for  a  spot  when  something  is  going  to 
happen  so  that  you  can  break  with  the  group  so  that  it  won't  be  con- 
spicuous enough  for  the  group  to  notice  and  you  can  get  out.  I  was 
longing  for  this  opportunity.  When  my  opportunity  came  with  my 
company  to  leave  Grand  Rapids  I  decided  this  was  it.  I  decided  I 
was  never  going  to  contact  another  group  and  would  be  finished  with 
this  whole  business  and  that  is  going  to  be  that.  In  a  group  like  that 
your  mind  can  get  to  be  at  a  place  where  you  can  get  to  believe  just 
the  opposite  of  what  they  had  taught  you,  you  should  believe,  because 
regardless  of  the  theories  and  regardless  of  anything  else — when  so- 
and-so  says  something  you  had  better  do  it,  aiid  there  is  a  reason  to  do 
it  or  he  wouldn't  have  said  it.  So  their  theories,  to  my  way  of  think- 
ing, when  they  know  of  your  background  training  and  get  you  started 
and  interested  and  make  you  think  that  it  is  one  of  the  most  wonder- 
ful things  in  tlie  world — well  you  become  pretty  well  saturated  with 
it.  Then  when  the  time  comes  that  you  are  saturated  with  it,  almost 
anything  they  tell  you  to  do,  you  do  it  because  with  these  theories 
with  which  you  were  saturated.  Anyhow,  these  people  couldn't  tell 
you  both  things — that  you  should  have  one  big  brotherhood  and  yet 
that  you  should  do  this  and  that  against  it. 

Mr.  Appell.  What  things  about  the  Communist  Party  did  you,  as 
a  result  of  your  membership  in  the  Communist  Party,  find  to  be 
wrong,  and  which  brought  you  to  the  point  where  you  said  to  your- 
self "I  am  going  to  break  away  from  it  and  have  nothing  more  to  do 
with  it." 

Mr.  Sumner.  The  first  thing  wrong  about  it  is  their  authority — to 
follow  the  leadership  and  whatever  is  said  must  be  done.  You  must 
be  militant  and  follow  this  leadership  because  they  have  an  inside 
knowledge,  and  even  though  it  may  be  a  thing  you  think  you  shouldn't 


4644        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

do,  you  should  do  it.  Follow  the  leadership  regardless.  This  defeats 
one  of  their  so-called  basic  conceptions,  which  is  a  dictatorship  of  the 
proletariat.     There  is  a  contradiction  there. 

Another  thing  that  is  wrong  about  it  is  that  it  completely  destroys 
your  liberty.  You  don't  have  freedom  of  thought — you  don't  have 
freedom  of  religion — ^you  don't  have  freedom  of  expression,  because 
you  are  supposed  to  talk,  think,  and  live  the  party  line,  no  matter 
whether  it  agrees  exactly  with  what  you  are  thinking  or  not. 

Another  thing  that  is  wrong  with  it  is  that  it  accepts  the  leadership 
of  a  foreign  country,  rather  than  the  leadership  of  this  country  as 
final.  It  is  the  Soviet  Union  this  and  the  Soviet  Union  that.  Well, 
now,  I  believe  that  the  Soviet  Union  has  accomplished  something  that 
may  not  have  been  accomplished  under  the  Czars.  I  don't  go  for  the 
method  in  which  they  accomplished  it,  but  you  will  have  to  admit  the 
Soviet  Union  is  ahead  today  agriculturally,  mechanically,  educa- 
tionally, et  cetera,  by  its  present  setup. 

The  way  I  look  at  it,  you  can  go  right  back  to  our  Founding  Fathers 
here — the  conception  they  had,  and  the  reason  we  are  as  far  ahead  in 
this  country  as  we  are,  is  by  following  out  these  principles.  And  just 
like  I  think  there  are  a  lot  of  good  things  about  the  Soviet  Union,  I 
think  the  United  States  has  a  good  many  things  which  can  be  con- 
sidered to  be  entirely  wrong. 

Mr.  Appell.  Did  you  find  that  the  Communist  Party  basically — 
well,  how  they  regarded  the  individual,  whether  they  are  black,  white, 
Jewish,  or  what? 

Mr.  Sumner.  It  has  this  regard  for  the  individual — if  the  philos- 
ophy is  right  that  they  have,  you  can  say  it  is  regard  for  the  individual. 
The  philosophy  is  that  only  by  serving  the  state  can  the  individual 
eet  what  he  should  out  of  life — therefore  it  is  to  the  individual's  bene- 
fit or  advantage  if  he  serves  the  state. 

Mr.  Appell.  But  I  am  talking  about  not  the  theory,  but  the  practice. 

Mr,  Sumner.  In  practice  whatever  they  tell  you  to  do,  you  do  it  or 
else  you  are  in  disfavor.  You  fear  them.  However,  if  anyone  is 
threatened  physically  in  the  party  I  don't  know  of  it,  I  never  have 
been, 

Mr.  Appell.  We  have  seen  in  other  localities  the  party  advertises 
that  it  serves  the  best  interests  of  labor,  the  best  interests  of  the  Negro, 
and  other  things,  whereas  in  actual  practice,  they  only  serve  their  own 
end.  They  exploit  the  terrible  situations  that  the  Negro  finds  himself 
in,  only  to  make  capital  among  the  Negroes — not  to  help  the  Negro 
gain  what  he  justly  deserves. 

Mr.  Sumner,  That  would  be  a  pretty  hard  thing  to  put  your  finger 
on  and  to  say  you  know  it  is  true.  You  don't  see  it  come  out  in  unit 
and  citywide  meetings.  What  goes  on  behind  closed  doors,  I  don't 
know. 

Mr.  Appell.  But  with  respect  to  their  attitude? 

Mr.  Sumner.  But  you  do  suspect  those  things. 

Mr.  Appell,  Mr,  Sumner,  for  this  record  is  there  anything  further 
you  have  not  been  asked  about  that  you  would  care  to  tell  us  about? 

Mr,  Sumner.  No,  I  don't  think  this  is  the  type  of  answer  you  are 
aiming  for,  but  I  have  said  it  before  and  talked  it  over  with  my  wife 
and  other  people  that  I  wish  there  were  some  way  that  this  problem 
could  be — this  Communist  Party  in  the  United  States  could  be  ap- 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4645 


preached  on  a  positive  basis.  My  own  thinking  on  the  matter  is  this, 
that  having  the  type  of  government,  et  cetera,  that  we  do,  and  the 
setup  we  have  here — we  ought  to  have  within  our  own  framework 
something  that  is  pitching  for  our  own  country  the  same  way  the 
Communists  are  pitching  for  theirs.  As  I  look  back  on  my  high- 
school  class  in  civics,  we  were  just  taught  that  this  was  our  Govern- 
ment, et  cetera.  They  didn't  get  down  there  and  make  you  believe  it 
like  they  should  have.  I  know  that  isn't  the  kind  of  question  you  are 
asking,  but  I  have  no  information  at  all  that  individual  Communists, 
or  their  groups,  or  the  Communist  Party  as  a  whole  has  done  which 
you  would  call  of  a  subversive  nature — or  information  that  you  don't 

at    already  have.     It  was  surprising  to  me  when  these  things  happened 

le    like  the  stuff  about  the  Rosenbergs. 

le  Mr.  Appell.  Well,  I  know  of  nothing  else  at  this  time.  There  are 
probably  others  in  the  Grand  Rapids  area  of  whom  you  possess  knowl- 
edge and  about  whom  the  committee  could  ask  you,  but  the  names  that 
I  went  over  with  you  today  are  all  we  have  had  time  to  prepare  for. 

n  I  think  with  this  that  I  will  extend  to  you  the  thanks  of  the  com- 
mittee, and  express  its  appreciation  for  the  information  you  have  made 
available  to  it. 

Mr.  Sumner.  Thank  you.  I  wish  I  could  have  been  of  more  help. 
I  look  back  now  and  realize  that  I  could  have — if  I  had  known — I 
could  have  jotted  down  names,  and  so  on,  but  it  never  dawned  on  me 
that  I  would  be  in  a  position  where  it  would  be  of  any  interest. 

Mr.  Appell.  Well,  thank  you  again,  and  you  are  excused  at  this 
time. 

(Whereupon,  at  5:35  p.  m.,  the  executive  session  was  adjourned 
subject  to  the  call  of  the  chairman.) 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA— Part  3 


WEDNESDAY,   APRIL    14,    1954 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committ^ee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  C. 
executive  session  ^ 

The  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met, 
pursuant  to  call,  at  10 :  t>5  a.  m.,  Old  House  Office  Building,  room  225, 
Hon.  Donald  L.  Jackson,  acting  chairman,  presiding. 

Committee  members  present:  Representatives  Donald  L.  Jackson 
and  James  B.  Frazier,  Jr. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  L.  Kunzig,  counsel;  Thomas  W. 
Beale,  Sr.,  chief  clerk;  and  Dolores  Anderson,  reporter. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Let  the  record  show  that  a  subcommittee  has  been 
appointed  by  the  chairman,  for  the  purpose  of  taking  the  testimony 
this  morning,  consisting  of  Mr.  Frazier  and  Mr.  Jackson,  with  the 
latter  as  acting  chairman. 

Will  the  witness  rise  and  be  sworn,  please? 

In  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  do  you  solemnly  swear  to  tell 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Proceed,  Mr,  Kunzig. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Will  you  state  your  full  name  for  the  record,  please? 

TESTIMONY  OF  FRANCES  BURKE,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HER  COUNSEL, 
DAVID  REIN— Resumed 

Mrs.  Burke.  Frances  Burke. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Will  counsel  please  identifv  himself? 

Mr.  Rein.  David  Rein,  711  14th  Street,  Washington,  D,  C. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Is  that  "Mrs."  Burke? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Mrs.  Burke,  you  stated  as  your  name,  Frances  Burke. 
Is  that  your  full  name?  Do  you  have  any  middle  name  or  maiden 
name  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  My  first  name  is  Bertha.  I  never  use  it.  My  maiden 
name  was  Willard. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Htive  you  been  married  anytime  previously? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  What  was  your  name  at  that  time? 

(Witness  confers  with  counsel.) 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  have  been  married  several  times. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Could  you  give  us  that  in  the  order  in  which  it  took 
place? 

1  Released  by  the  committee. 


4648        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes.     Nields,  Dessert,  Decker,  Copeland,  and  Burke. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  is  your  present  address? 

Mrs.  BuKKE.  14  Pitt  Street,  apartment  4-B,  New  York  City. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Could  you  give  the  committee  a  brief  resume  of  your 
educational  background  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  went  to  school  in  Pasadena,  Calif.,  elementary  school, 
junior  high,  and  high  school.    And  I  graduated  from  high  school. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  "When  did  you  graduate  from  high  school  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  1932. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  is  your  present  age  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  38. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Now,  could  you  give  the  committee  a  brief  resume  of 
your  employment  background  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  was  employed  by  Fanchon  &  Marco,  the  dancing 
team.  I  worked  for  the  May  Co.  in  Los  Angeles,  and  I  worked  for 
the  Santa  Barbara  News  Press. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When  did  you  work  for  the  Santa  Barbara  News 
Press  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  1935. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  what  capacity  was  that  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  was  a  clerical  worker. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Is  that  all  you  have  done  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  worked  for  Sterns  Department  Store  in  New  York 
City,  the  National  City  Bank,  Security  First  National  Bank  in  Los 
Angeles.   Do  you  want  all  my  places  of  employment  ? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  The  main  ones,  shall  we  say. 

Mrs.  Burke.  The  First  National  Bank  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When  was  that  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  That  was  in  1940. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  are  you  employed  now  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  District  65  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Of  what  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  New  York  City,  district  65.    It  is  a  union. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Will  you  give  us  the  title  of  the  union  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  DPOWA,  the  Distributing,  Processing,  Office  Workers 
of  America. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  what  capacity  are  you  employed  there  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  am  a  bookkeeper. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Would  you  tell  us,  in  order,  the  places  you  resided,  the 
year,  and  the  year  you  left,  from  about  1938  on  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  1938  on? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Roughly,  from  that  time. 

(Witness  confers  with  counsel.) 

Mrs.  Burke.  Let's  see.  1938 ;  I  was  in  Los  Angeles,  San  Diego,  and 
San  Francisco. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  all  these  different  places  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  From  1938  on ;  yes.   And  Salinas. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  This  was  all  in  the  year  1938  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Oh,  no ;  you  said  1938  on — 1938  I  was  in  Los  Angeles. 
In  1939 1  was  in  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  did  you  live  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  My  address? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Yes ;  if  you  can  recall. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4649 

Mrs.  Burke.  Oh,  dear — I  am  sorry,  I  doirt  remember  the  address. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  All  right.    Where  ^Yere  you  in  1940  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  In  early  1940  I  was  still  in  Los  Angeles.  Late  in  1940 
1^11  was  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  late  1940  you  moved  to  San  Diego  ^ 

Mi"s.  Burke.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  recall  where  you  lived  in  San  Diego?  The 
address  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  No  ;  not  the  first  one. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  How  long  did  you  stay  in  San  Diego?     What  years? 

Mrs.  Burke.  1940— late  1940,  and  I  left  in  1945. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  So  you  lived  contiimously  in  San  Diego  in  late  1940 
until  1945? 

Mrs,  Burke.  Correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Now  can  you  tell  us,  to  the  best  of  your  memory,  the 
address  you  had  in  San  Diego  in  those  5  years  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  The  only  street  name  I  remember  is  Juniper  Street, 
and  I  don't  remember  the  number. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  li\e  there  the  entire  time? 

Mrs.  Burke.  No. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Most  of  the  time  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes;  I  woukl  say  so. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  don't  recall  the  street  name  or  any  number  at  all 
where  you  lived  in  the  period  of  5  years  in  San  Diego  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Well,  wait  a  minute.  Part  of  that  time  I  lived  on 
Georgia  Street. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Georgia  Street  in  San  Diego  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Were  you  married  at  that  time  in  San  Diego  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Wliich  one  of  those  you  have  mentioned  to  us  were  you 
married  to  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Mr.  Decker. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  That  means  you  were  Mrs.  Decker  then  from  1940  to 
1945? 

Mrs.  Burke.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  mentioned — that  was  Mrs.  Frances  Decker.  Is 
that  the  name  you  went  by  ? 

Mrs  Burke.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mrs.  Decker,  have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer  under  the  privilege  of  the  fifth 
amendment. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  BuRiiE.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  To  make  the  record  clear,  you  decline  always  on  the 
grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment? 

Mrs.  Burke.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  are  invoking  the  fifth  amendment  in  your  refusal 
to  answer  the  questions  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Isn't  it  a  fact  that  you  held  a  position  roughly  from 
1942  to  1945  of  executive  secretary  of  the  Communist  Party  in  San 
Diego? 


4650        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mi-s.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Weren't  you,  in  fact,  the  person  who  called  others  to 
meetings  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Jackson.  For  the  reason  previously  stated? 

Mrs  Burke.  Yes ;  for  the  reason  previously  stated. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  send  out  the  following  letter  to  a  group  of 
alleged  members  of  the  Communist  Party  during  that  period  of  time? 
[Reading :] 

Communist  Political  Association. 

Dear  Member:  We  are  trying  to  clear  up  our  records  in  regard  to  dues  pay- 
ments in  order  that  we  may  collect  them  quickly  and  pass  on  to  more  important 
business. 

Our  records  show  that  you  owe  dues  for  the  months  of  (May  and  June,  C.  P.), 
July,  August,  September.  You  still  have  the  privilege  of  the  $5  payment  for 
6  months'  dues.  However,  this  will  close  on  October  10.  If  you  wish  to  take 
advantage  of  the  saving,  we  urge  that  you  either  bring  your  payment  to  the  oflice 
or  the  bookstore  or  mail  it  to  us.  We  might  add  that  this  offer  only  holds  good 
if  you  have  made  no  dues  payment  since  June. 

We  would  appreciate  your  prompt  attention  to  this ;  we  would  like  very  mucli 
to  have  a  100-percent  dues-payment  record  through  the  end  of  the  year.  That 
way,  none  of  us  will  be  annoyed  with  notices  or  pleas  and  we  can  all  start  from 
scratch  on  January  1.  H 

Fraternally  yours, 

Frances  Decker,  Executive  Secretary. 

P.  S. :  OflSce  hours  are  from  11  a.  m.  to  6  p.  m.  daily.  The  address  is  832  Fifth 
Avenue,  room  5.  The  bookstore  is  located  at  63.5  E  Street,  and  the  name  is  the 
Community  Book  Center. 

Mrs.  Burke,  did  you  send  out  such  a  letter  to  a  group  of  alleged 
Communists  in  the  San  Diego  area? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer  for  the  above  aforestated  reason. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  ever  have  any  connection  with  the  address 
832  Fifth  Avenue,  room  5  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  attend  or  frequent  the  bookstore  located  at 
635  E  Street? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG,  What  iiiformation  can  you  give  the  committee  about 
the  Community  Book  Center  in  San  Diego? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  am  going  to  hand  you  a  list  of  names  which  is  marked 
"Decker  Exhibit  No.  1,"'  for  identification,  and  ask  you  if  you  know 
any  of  these  people  as  members  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Jackson.  For  the  reason  previously  stated,  j^ou  decline  to 
answer  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  Yes. 

(At  this  point  Representative  James  B.  Frazier,  Jr.,  entered  the 
hearing  room.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  ever  notify  members  of  a  meeting  to  be  held 
at  Harvey  Hall,  1041  Uth  Avenue,  San  Diego,  on  the  28th  of  Janu- 
ary, 1945  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer  for  the  reason  previously  stated. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  This  room,  in  which  you  held  the  meeting  for  the  i 
purpose  of  nominating  officers  for  the  executive  committee  of  the 
CPA — a  letter  signed  by  Frances  Decker,  executive  secretary  of  the 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4651 

'PA.  It  also  lists  it  as  a  ''must  meeting.'^  Did  you  send  out  such  a 
jtter  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  decline  to  answer  for  the  reasons  previously  stated. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mrs.  Burke,  we  feel  the  evidence  this  committee  is  in 
»ossession  of  shows  you  were  executive  secretary  of  the  Communist 
'arty  when  you  were  a  part  of  it.  You  have  already  said  you  are 
he  Frances  Decker  in  San  Diego  at  this  period  of  time.  We  feel  you 
lave  a  great  deal  of  evidence,  particularly  since  you  have  been  execu- 
ive  secretary,  that  would  assist  this  committee  in  its  work  in  investi- 
gating subversive  activities  throughout  the  country.  You  could  give 
IS  this  information  if  you  wished  to.  I  want  to  ask  you  once  again — 
ron't  you  please  cooperate  with  this  committee  and  give  us  the  in- 
ormation  that  lies  within  your  knowledge  regarding  the  activities 
tf  the  party  within  the  San  Diego  area  ?    Will  you  cooperate  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  I  am  sorry,  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  On  the  fifth  amendment?  The  grounds  you  gave 
)ef  ore  ? 

Mrs.  Burke.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  further  questions  are  probably 
iseless  under  the  circumstances. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Frazier,  do  you  have  any  questions? 

Mr.  Frazeer.  No  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Is  there  any  reason  why  the  witness  should  not  be 
xcused  ? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  No  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Very  well,  you  are  excused. 

( Wliereupon,  at  10 :  45  a.  m..  Wednesday,  April  14,  1954  the  execu- 
tive session  ended.) 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  INPHE 
STATE  OF  CALIFOENIA-Part  3 


FRIDAY,  APRIL  23,   1954 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  AcTivrriES, 

Los  Angeles^  Calif. 

EXECUTIVE    session^ 

The  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
net,  pursuant  to  call,  at  10  a.  m.,  in  room  1019,  Western  Pacific  Build- 
ng,  1030  North  Broadway,  Los  Angeles,  Calif.,  Hon.  Donald  L.  Jack- 
son (acting chairman),  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  Donald  L.  Jackson 
and  Clyde  Doyle. 

Staff  membei^  present :  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel ;  and  Wil- 
liam A.  Wlieeler,  investigator. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  conmiittee  will  be  in  order. 

Mrs.  Foder,  will  you  raise  your  right  hand? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  tlie  evidence  you  shall  give  to  this  sub- 
committee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mrs.  FoDER.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Be  seated,  please. 

Let  the  record  show  that  for  the  purpose  of  taking  testimony  today 
the  chairman  of  the  committee  has  appointed  a  subcommittee  con- 
sisting of  Messrs.  Scherer,  Doyle,  and  Jackson.  Mr.  Scherer  is  absent, 
but  a  quorum  of  the  subcommittee  is  present.  Mr.  Jackson  is  acting 
chairman. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ELIZABETH  FODER,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HER 
COUNSEL,  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please  ? 
Mrs.  FoDER.  Elizabeth  Foder,  F-o-d-e-r. 

Mr.  Margolis.  Maybe  you  want  this  for  the  record:  I  am  Ben 
Margolis,  representing  Mrs.  Foder. 
Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  were  you  born,  Mrs.  Foder? 
Mrs.  Foder.  I  was  born  in  Budapest,  Hungary. 


1  Released  by  the  committee. 

4653 


4654        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlien  did  you  come  to  this  country  ? 

Mrs.  FoDER.  About  1900. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Are  you  a  naturalized  American  citizen? 

Mrs.  Foder.  No.    I  have  citizenship  by  derivation. 

INIr.  Ta\t:nner.  Through  your  father? 

Mrs.  FoDER.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  was  he  naturalized?  i 

Mrs.  Foder.  Well,  I  can't  just  remember  right  now,  but  I  do  have 
his  certificate,  as  well  as  my  own.  I  received  a  certificate  showing 
citizenship  by  derivation, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  what  your  educational 
training  has  been? 

Mrs.  Foder.  High  school,  business  college,  and  a  year  of  college 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  did  you  attend  business  college? 

Mrs.  Foder.  In  Cleveland,  Ohio. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  complete  that  training? 

Mrs.  Foder.  The  business  college?    About  1918. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  state  that  you  had  other  educational  train- 
ing after  that  ? 

JNlrs.  Foder.  I  did.    I  completed  my  high  school  in  evening  courses 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AVill  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  how  you  liave 
been  employed  since  1940? 

Mrs.  Foder.  A])proximately  1940  to  1944 — I  am  not  sure  about  the 
ending  date — I  was  assistant  clerk  at  the  selective  service  board  of  the 
selective  service.  Lorain  County. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Lorain  County,  what  State? 

Mvs.  Foder.  Ohio. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Where  did  you  reside  in  Ohio? 

Mrs.  Foder.  In  Oberlin. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  live  in  Oberlin? 

Mrs.  Foder.  Approximately  15  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  vou  leave  Oberlin  ? 

INIrs.  Foder.  I  left  in  1940. " 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  come  to  California  from  Oberlin? 

INIrs.  Foder.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  if  you  will  proceed  to  tell  us  of  your  othei 
employment.    Did  you  have  other  employment  after  1940  in  Oberlin* 

Mrs,  Foder,  No,  sir — yes ;  I  did.    Excuse  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  it,  please? 

JNIrs.  Foder,  I  managed  a  consumers'  co-op  for  1  year. 

Mr.  Ta-\^nner.  Is  that  all 

Mrs,  Foder,  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Taatenner.  In  Oberlin? 

]\Irs.  Foder.  Right. 

Mr.  TA^^':NNER.  Where  do  you  now  reside? 

Mrs.  Foder.  2018  Oi-is. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  in  Los  Angeles? 

Mrs.  Foder,  That  is  Compton. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  lived  there  continually  since  1946  wher 
you  arrived  in  California? 

Mrs.  Foder,  No,  sir ;  I  came  to  Pomona. 

Mr.  Taa-enner.  How  long  did  you  live  in  Pomona? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  will  have  to  s:iy  ap})i'oximately  1952. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4655 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  employed  in  Pomona? 

Mrs,  FoDER.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  was  the  nature  of  your  employment? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  was  a  typist-clerk. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  type  of  work  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  was  with  the  Pomona  Health  Center  as  a  typist -clerk 

the  business  office. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  employed  there  from  ]94()  until  1952  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  No,  sir.     I  was  employed  there  September  1949  to 

ugust  1952. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  your  employment  there  prior  to  1949  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  had  a  part-time  job  durin<i  the  registration,  motor- 
ehicle  registration.  I  was  cashier  and,  oh,  sort  of  checking  the 
ashler's  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  the  nature  of  your  employment  at 

ompton  since  1952? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  am  in  the  division  of  vital  records.  I  check  for  accur- 
cy  and  clerical  errors,  death  records,  and  birth  records.  I  share  this 
7ork  with  a  person  who  is  my  senior.  I  am  in  a  subordinate  ca])acity. 
t  is  clerical  work. 

Mr.  Jackson.  May  I  ask,  is  that  employment  with  the  State  of 
yalifornia  ? 

Mrs.  Foder,  No,  county. 

Mr.  Jackson.  County  of  Los  Angeles? 

Mrs,  Foder,  Yes, 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  In  1948 

Mr.  Jackson.  Excuse  me.  Mr.  Counsel,  in  view  of  the  limited  facil- 
ties  for  consultation,  if  at  any  time  you  feel  you  want  to  go  outside  and 
onsult  with  your  client,  it  will  be  quite  all  right. 

Mr,  Margolis,  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  If  I  understand  your  testimony  correctly,  you  were 
mployed  by  the  State  of  California  in  the  health  department,  in  the 
vork  of  the  health  department. 

Mrs.  Foder.  That  is  the  county.  It  is  the  county.  I  thought  you 
laid  State. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  did.     Then 

Mrs,  Foder,  I  have  part-time  work — now,  the  motor  vehicles  is  a 
State — State  of  California  Motor  Vehicles.  That  was  simply  part- 
ime  work.  I  did  a  little  part-time  work  in  the  city  attorney's  office. 
3is  secretary  got  ill  and  I  substituted  there  about  3  weeks. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  at  Pomona  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  Yes.  But  that  wasn't  permanent  work ;  just  a  fill-in  on 
Uness. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  You  held  those  positions  between  1946  and  1949  ? 

Mrs.  Fodder.  Yes.  In  other  words,  up  to  1949  I  held  no  position. 
[  wasn't  interested  in  work,  particularly,  and  it  did  come  in  handy  to 
jarn  some  extra  money,  and  I  did.  These  things  came  along,  I  heard 
)f  them,  and  I  applied. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Have  you  knowingly  been  a  member  of  the  Com- 
nunist  Party  at  any  time  since  September  10, 1948  ? 

Mr,  Margolis.  May  I  ask  a  question  ?  Do  you  have  any  information 
:hat  she  has  been  ? 


4656        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  just  asked  the  question. 

Mrs.  FoDER.  I  am  ready  to  answer.  While  I  have  done  nothing 
wrong,  I  shall  not  answer  that  question.  I  am  invoking  the  fifth 
amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  knowingly  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  while  you  resided  in  Oberlin,  Ohio? 

Mrs.  FoDER.  That  will  have  to  be  the  same  answer. 

Mr.  Jackson.  For  the  same  reason  ? 

Mrs.  FoDER.  For  the  same  reason. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  am  not  prompting  the  witness,  but  I  wish  to  make 
it  clear  that  in  an  answer — it  will  be  adequate  to  say,  "The  same  answer 
for  the  same  reasons,"  but  I  want  to  be  sure  that  it  is  all  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  knowingly  a  member  of  any  organization 
in  Oberlin,  Ohio,  which  advocated  the  use  of  force  and  violence  as 
a  method  of  overthrowing  the  Government  of  the  United  States,  or 
of  any  State  ? 

Mrs.  FoDER.  To  my  knowledge,  I  have  never  belonged  to  any  group 
or  organization  that  advocated  the  violent  overthrow  of  the  Govern- 
ment, nor  had  I  ever  been  incited  or  in  any  way  involved  in  such  a 
thought,  as  a  thought,  even;  nor  have  I  ever  entertained  a  thought. 
The  whole  thought  is  repugnant  to  my  nature. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  My  question  w^as  not  what  your  personal  belief  maj 
be,  but  whether  or  not  you  were  a  member  of  an  organization  whict 
to  your  knowledge  advocated  the  use  of  force  and  violence. 

Mrs.  Foder.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  familiar,  while  living  in  Oberlin,  Ohio 
with  the  basic  principles  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  cannot  or  will  not  answer  questions  about  the  Com 
munist  Party  for  reasons  as  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  not  aware  that  one  of  the  basic  tenets  o" 
the  Communist  Party  is  to  advocate  the  use  of  force  and  violence  ii 
the  overthrow  of  the  Government  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  as  I  have  never  know 
ingly  advocated  such  a  thing,  or  belonged  to  such  a  group,  so  I  mus 
refuse  to  answer  it  on  the  same  grounds  as  before. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  While  you  were  living  in  Pomona  did  you  becomi 
aware  of  the  existence  of  a  branch  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  di( 
you  become  a  member  of  a  branch  of  the  Communist  Party,  in  wha 
is  known  as  the  Ontario-Pomona-Claremont  area  of  California,  know 
ing  that  such  an  organization  was  a  branch  of  the  Communist  Party 

Mrs.  Foder.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  on  the  same  grounds  as  the  othei 
questions  that  are  relating  to  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Are  you  now  knowingly  a  member  of  the  Commu 
nist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Foder.  Same  answer,  again. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  DoTLE.  No  question. 

Mr.  Jackson.  If  there  is  nothing  further,  the  witness  may  be  ex 
cused  from  further  attendance,  under  the  subpena.     Thank  you. 

(Whereupon  the  witness  was  excused.) 

Mr.  Wheeler.  Mrs.  Fowler. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Will  you  please  raise  your  right  hand  ? 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4657 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  shall  give  to  this  sub- 
onimittee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
ruth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Be  seated,  please. 

Mr.  Tavexner.  What  is  your  name,  please? 

TESTIMONY  OF  EDA  C.  FOWLER 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Eda  C.  Fowler,  F-o-w-l-e-r. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  noted  that  you  do  not  have  counsel  with  you. 
t  is  the  practice  of  the  committee  to  advise  every  witness  that  they 
lave  the  right  to  consult  counsel,  if  they  desire,  at  any  time  during 
he  questioning,  or  to  have  counsel  with  them. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  understand. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  desire  to  proceed  without  counsel  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  were  you  born,  Mrs.  Fowler. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  In  Chicago,  111. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  At  1835  Longwood  Avenue,  Los  Angeles  19. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Since  1919. 

Mr.  Ta\t.nner.  How  long  have  you  been  known  by  the  name  of  Eda 
Fowler  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  My  name  is  Eda  C.  Fowler.  Well,  I  married  Mr. 
Fowler  in  1950, 1  think  it  was — been  4  years  in  August. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Four  years  in  August. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  your  name  prior  to  your  marriage  to 
Vlr.  Fowler? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Eda  Johnston. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  Johnston? 

Mrs,  Fowler.  J-o-h-n-s-t-o-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  your  married  name  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler,  Yes. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  When  were  you  married  to  Mr.  Johnston  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  In  1941, 

Mr,  Tavenner.  By  what  name  were  you  known  prior  to  1941? 

Mrs,  Fowler,  Fogerlund,  F-o-g-e-r-l-u-n-d, 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Were  you  known  by  another  name  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  My  maiden  name  is  Corlin,  C-o-r-l-i-n, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  it  have  another  spelling  besides  the  one  you 
have  given  us  ? 

Mrs,  Fowler,  The  name  Corlin  ? 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Yes, 

Mrs,  Fowler,  I  believe  that  my  father  said  that  originally  the  Ger- 
man spelling  was  K-o-e-r-l-i-n, 

Mr,  Tavenner,  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  briefly  what 
your  educational  training  has  been  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler,  I  went  through  high  school  in  Chicago,  I  have 
studied  music  and  I  have  studied  shorthand,  and  full  commercial 
course  here  in  Los  Angeles.    I  can  type  and  take  dictation. 


4658        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  employment  since  1940 1 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  am  at  present  unemployed.  In  19-lG  I  took  a  posi- 
tion with  the  Los  Angeles  County.  I  was  referred  there  by  the  State 
unemployment  office. 

I,  previous  to  that,  was  unemployed  due  to  a  fall  I  had  taken  in  my 
home,  which  lamed  me. 

Prior  to  that  I  was  a  waitress  at  various  places,  for  a  year  here  and 
a  year  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  name  some  of  the  places  where  you  were 
engaged  as  a  waitress  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  worked  at  the  Elecla  on  43d  and  Crenshaw.  I 
worked  at  the  May  Co.  Wilshire.    I  worked  at  Ginger's  Coffee  Shop. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  that  located  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Ginger's  Coffee  Shop? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Near  the  corner  of  Washington  and  Rimpau. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  period  of  your  employment  there  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Well,  I  know  that  it  was  after  the  time  came  that  I 
was — it  was  sometime  in  1942, 1  believe. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  For  how  long  a  period  were  you  employed  there  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  don't  remember  exactly.  I  believe  there  were  twc 
periods.  I  worked  there  for  a  while,  I  believe,  and  then  didn't  work 
and  then  worked  there  again.  I  believe  that  that  was  the  period  thai 
in  between  I  worked  for  the  Western  Stove  Co.,  working  with  B-54's 
did  skinning  and  riveting  and  drilling,  things  of  that  kind,  making  air- 
planes. And  that  was  in — I  believe  I  began  there  in  August  of  1945 
and  continued  to  March  or  April  of  '43, 1  believe.  I  quit  because  of  ar 
aluminum  rash.  I  got  a  doctor's  certificate  to  that  effect,  that  I  was 
getting  it  in  my  eyes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Mrs.  Edith  Macia 
M-a-c-i-a? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  ii 
may  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  any  time  a  member  of  the  West  Adanif  i 
branch  or  club  of  the  Communist  Party  in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Yes ;  I  was. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Was  Mrs.  Macia  a  member  of  that  club,  also  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  tha 
it  may  incriminate  me. 

Tr.  Tavenner.  Well,  I  understood  you  to  say  that  you  were  a  mem 
ber  of  the  West  Adams  Club. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  was  at  one  time  a  member  of  the  West  Adams  brand 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  do  not  have  the  beneht  of  counsel,  but  it  is  dif 
ficult  for  me  to  understand  that  having  admitted  membership  in  thai 
club  of  the  Communist  Party,  as  to  how  it  could  possibly  incriminate 
you  to  advise  the  committee  regarding  the  membership  in  that  grou| 
of  Mrs.  Macia  or  to  admitting  having  known  her. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  do  not  know  how  it  might  incriminate  me,  but  I  re 
fuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  that  it  might  incriminate 
me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Plow  long  were  you  a  member  of  that  club  or  grour 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4659 

Mrs.  Fowler.  I  joined  the  Comniuiiist  Party  in  1938.  I  liad  gravi- 
;Ued  towards  it,  I  imagine,  as  I  look  back,  since  1930.  I  severed  my 
onnection  with  the  Communist  Party — I  don't  remember  the  exact 
ime ;  it  was,  I  am  sure,  at  least  4  years  that  I  was  a  member,  but  it  may 
lave  been  a  little  longer.  I  drifted  away  from  it.  I  don't  remember 
xactly  when  I  decided  that  I  was  just  too  busy  or  too  distinterested 
lid  too  much  in  disagreement  with  the  Connnunist  Party  to  further 
line  any  connection  with  it.  I  am  sure  that  it  was  after  1942.  It 
nay  have  been  in  '43.  It  may  even  have  been  as  late  as  '4-1.  But  I 
hink  that  that  is  about  the  limit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  cir- 
umstances  under  which  vou  became  a  member  of  the  Communist 
^irty? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Well,  I  had  been  seeking  and  searching  for  a  solution 
'or  what  seemed  to  me  at  that  time,  and  for  many  years,  a  solution 
o  the  decline  of  the  American  people,  of  that  day,  surely,  the  unem- 
)loyment  problem.  I  had  been  laughed  out  of  the  unemployment 
•ffice  on  the  ground  that  I  was  too  old  when  I  was  29  in  1930.  The 
i:entleman  says,  "What^  29^  You  are  too  old."  And  I  tried  to 
niderstand  why  there  should  be  that  much  unemployment. 

It  seemed  to  me  it  would  be  good  for  the  country  if  there  was  lots 
)f  employment;  certainly  better  for  me.  My  children  were — I  think 
ny  boy  was  a  year  old  and  my  husband  was  in  the  hospital,  and  my 
[laughter  was  only  about  three  and  a  half.  This  was  in  1930.  She 
:>vas  born  in  '28.  My  husband  was  in  the  hospital  with  phlebitis,  which 
aid  him  off  his  work  for  many  months. 

And  I  remember — I  think  I  tried  charity.  I  did  get  some  individual 
{^liarity  from  some  very  fine  neighbors  and  friends  of  people  that 
worked  with  my  husband.  And  I  tried  F.  D.  R.  in  1932.  I  thought 
that  would  solve  it.  I  tried  Upton  Sinclair  in  1934,  and  Utopians,  I 
think,  in  1935. 

And  during  that  period  from  19 — I  guess  this  was  1933,  when  Upton 
Sinclair  first  began  to  run,  talked  of  running  on  the  Democratic  ticket 
for  Governor  of  California,  and  he  went  wholeheartedly  into  the  theory 
that  unemployment  might  be  solved  by  that  procedure  of  trying  it  on 
the  "dog,''  as  he  said  at  that  time.  "You  don't  want  the  unemployed 
and  you  can't  find  anywhere  to  put  them,  let's  put  them  to  work  pro- 
ducing for  themselves  and  then  they  will  not  be  a  burden  on  you  and 
they  will  not  be  going  hungry." 

And  I  found  that  all  these  things  were  called  Communistic.  And  I 
many  times  lieard  Mr.  Sinclair  say  that  he  was  not  Communistic  and 
that  he  had  nothing  to  do  witli  connnunism  and  was  opposed  to  com- 
munism, and  that  the  Communists  were  opposed  to  him. 

And  from  what  reading  I  had  done  I  couldn't  understand  where 
they  were  opposed  to  him  and  he  opposed  to  them  and  why  they  said 
the  things  they  said  and  why  he  said  the  things  he  said.  I  had  never 
heard  one  talk,  so  I  didn't  know.    But  I  was  curious. 

And  during  all  that  time,  billboards,  churches,  everybody — I  can 
remember  one  sermon ;  I  went  to  church  and  the  minister's  topic,  the 
topic  of  her  sermon  was  Can  You  Be  a  Christian  and  Vote  for  Upton 
Sinclair?  And  his  answer  was  that  no,  you  couldn't,  and  that  struck 
me  as  strange,  because  I  had  read  the  Bible  and  it  seemed  to  me  there 
was  nothing  un-Christian  in  Upton  Sinclair's  way  of  trying  to  end 
unemployment. 


4660        COMMTJNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

So  finally  curiosity  got  the  best  of  me,  and  my  father  and  myself- 
I  told  my  father,  I  says,  "This  thing  is  getting  under  my  skin. 
would  like  to  know  what  the  Communists  say.  I  would  like  to  he< 
one."  So  I  sought  them  out.  I  didn't  know  then  they  were  in  tl 
telephone  book.  I  thought  you  had  to  go  sneaking  around  and  see 
you  could  find  one.  I  didn't  know  you  could  look  them  up  in  tl 
telephone  book. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  it  that  you  sought  them  out  and  becan 
a  member? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  It  was  in  August  of  1938, 1  believe. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliere  were  you  living  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  At  1835  Longwood  Avenue. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  what  group  of  the  Communist  Party  were  yc 
assigned  when  you  became  a  member? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Well,  first  it  was  just  a  little  study  group.  Thei 
was  just  a  group  of  people  that  were  not  any  more  than  I  was, 
member.  I  w^asn't  assigned  to  anything.  I  just  went  when  tliere  wj 
some  discussion  to  take  place,  tell  us  about  what  their  beliefs  wer 
and  finally,  after  several  weeks,  we  were  requested  to  join,  formall 
join  the  party;  and  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  State  or  County  employee  at  any  tin: 
during  the  period  of  your  membership  in  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  No. 

Mr.  Jackson.  May  I  interrupt  a  moment?  My  understanding  c 
the  testimony  to  this  time  is  to  the  effect  that  the  witness  acknowledge 
her  own  membership  in  the  Communist  Party,  but  refuses  to  give  an 
information  as  to  those  with  w^hom  she  is  associated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  only  asked  her  regarding  her  possible  a( 
quaintanceship  with  Mrs.  Macia.  I  asked  her  if  she  was  acquainte 
with  Mrs.  Macia  and  the  witness  refused  to  answer  the  question  o 
tlie  ground  that  to  do  so  might  tend  to  incriminate  her. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  the  absence  of  counsel  for  the  witness,  did  tt 
committee  counsel  inform  her  of 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  informed  the  witness  that  as  she  had  admitte 
membership  in  the  AVest  Adams  brancli  of  the  Communist  Party 
did  not  see  how  it  could  possibly  incriminate  her  to  admit  acquair 
tanceship  with  Mrs.  Macia.  I  did  not  advise  her  that  she  had  waive 
the  right  to  rely  upon  the  fifth  amendment  by  having  admitted  he 
membership.    I  did  not  explain  that  to  her. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  should  want  to  have  that  appear  in  the  record  a 
this  time;  and  I  think  the  failure  to  so  indicate  in  the  record  would  b 
an  error  on  our  part.  There  have  been  findings  in  court  that  i.' 
answering  questions,  certain  questions  relating  to  membership  in  th; 
Communist  Party  and  then  declining  to  furnish  the  details  as  to  tha 
membership  and  these  activities  in  effect  waive  the  immunity  pro 
vided  by  the  fifth  amendment  and  furnish  the  basis  for  possibl 
citation  for  contempt  of  Congress,  in  the  discretion  of  the  committee 

Do  you  understand  the  purport  of  what  I  have  said  ? 

Mrs.  Fowler.  No ;  I  do  not,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  is  to  say  that  one  cannot  admit  a  certain  portioi 
of  his  or  her  activities  and  then  decline  to  answer  questions  relating 
to  other  activities. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4661 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  the  record  should  show  that  you  have  returned 
J  the  hearing  room  after  just  being  absent  a  few  minutes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Let  us  read  into  the  record  at  this  time  the  time  of 
ly  departure  from  the  hearing  room  and  my  return. 

Mr.  Wheeler.  Congressman  Jackson  left  at  10 :  20  and  returned  at 
0:35. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Very  well.    Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  the  chairman  has  explained  to  you  is  that 
aving  admitted  membership  in  the  Communist  Party  you  cannot 
ecline  now  to  give  the  committee  all  the  information  you  have 
elating  to  your  activities  within  the  Communist  Party,  and  that 
f  other  people,  without  the  possibility  of  your  being  dealt  with  by 
''ongress  as  being  in  contempt  of  Congress. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  You  are  giving  me  this  as  legal  information? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  So  that  you  may  fully  understand. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  This  is  true  that — I  mean,  you  state  that  is  true,  that 

cannot  exercise  the  fifth  amendment  at  this  point? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  having  admitted  your  Communist  Party 
lembership. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Let  me  clarify  that.  You  may  exercise  the  fifth 
mendment  from  this  point  on,  but  the  legality  of  the  use  of  the  fifth 
mendment  is  in  serious  question.  I  would  not  want  the  record  to 
low  that  we  have  deprived  you  of  the  right  to  use  it,  but  I  do  feel 
lat  you  should  be  warned  that  the  use  of  it  may  be  found  to  be  an 
legal  use  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mrs.  FownLER.  It  may  be  found  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  may  be  found. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  has  been  the  decision  of  the  courts,  that  you 
/ould  be  no  longer  protected  by  the  fifth  amendment  if  you  once 
3gally  waived  it. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Can  you  give  me  the  legal  references  to  that? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  The  Rogers  case  is  one  of  the  cases  that  so 
eld,  Jane  Rogers  case. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Very  well.  I  think  the  point  has  been  established, 
Ir.  Counsel. 

The  committee  will  suspend. 

(Discussion  off  the  record.) 

Mr.  Jackson.  On  the  record. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  I  suggest  this,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  the  witness  is  here 
dthout  counsel,  and  I  would  assume  from  her  question  to  Mr.  Taven- 
er,  when  she  was  informed  that  she  possibly  had  waived  her  pro- 
Bction  of  the  fifth  amendment  by  volunteering  she  was  a  member  of 
le  Communist  Party,  I  suggest  we  postpone  any  further  hearing  in 
lis  matter  until  a  later  date,  so  that  if  you  want  to  have  counsel  in 
le  interim  and  come  back.  But  at  some  time  in  the  future  we  feel  it 
;^ould  be  advisable  that  you  consult  legal  counsel,  because  this  is  a 
ommittee  of  Congi'ess  and  we  don't  want  any  American  citizen  to  be 

ft  in  the  position  in  which  he  does  not  understand  his  constitutional 
ight. 

Mrs.  Fowler.  Would  the  public  defender  be  available  to  me  under 
lese  circumstances  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  don't  know.     Mr.  Chairman  ? 


4662        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  don't  know  whether  the  public  defender  wonkl  I 
available  or  not.  That  question  has  never,  since  I  have  been  a  m(>n 
ber  of  the  committee,  come  up. 

However,  the  feeling  of  the  subcommittee  is  that  you  have  embarke 
upon  a  course  of  answers  which  might  conceivably  place  you  in  jeoj 
ardy.  The  committee  is  of  the  opinion  that  to  proceed  in  that  ligh 
with  the  witness  without  benefit  of  counsel,  would  not  be  the  be; 
course  of  action  to  pursue. 

In  other  words,  this  is  being  done  by  the  committee  in  fairness  t 
you ;  and  unless  there  is  an  objection,  or  unless  the  witness  herself  d( 
sires  to  proceed,  the  Chair  would  direct  that  the  subpena  be  extende ; 
until  such  time  as  it  would  be  possible  to  call  the  witness  back,  accon 
panied  by  counsel. 

Mrs.  FowTLER.  Well,  I  do  not  wish  to  spend  money  for  counsel.  ] 
counsel  can  be  provided  for  me,  I  would  be  glad  to  accept  it.  I  ha\ 
no  money  to  spend  for  counsel  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Then  do  we  understand  that  even  if  this  meeting  w? 
postponed  to  a  later  date  you  wouldn't  want  to  be  left  in  the  positio 
where  you  had  to  employ  ]:)rivate  counsel,  but  if  there  was  some  publ: 
lawyer  or  some  public  defender  available,  you  might  want  to  consu' 
him?  We  don't  know  whether  the  public  defender's  office  furnish( 
counsel  to  witnesses  before  us. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  about  5  mir 
utes. 

(Short  recess  was  taken.) 

Mr.  Jackson.  On  the  record.    The  committee  will  reconvene. 

It  is  the  opinion  of  the  subcommittee  that  you  should  not  be  pei 
mitted  to  proceed  without  benefit  of  counsel.  And  it  is  suggeste 
that  3^ou  may  be  able  to  procure  such  counsel  at  the  Civil  Liberti( 
Union  here  in  the  city  of  Los  Angeles. 

The  subpena  will  be  extended.  You  will  be  notified  at  a  futui 
date  as  to  the  time  and  place  of  the  next  hearing.  And  I  stress  agai 
that  we  are  doing  this  in  your  interest  and  not  out  of  any  selfis 
interest  of  the  committee.  We  could,  under  the  rules  of  the  committe 
have  properly  proceeded  at  this  time  with  the  interrogation.  But  t 
do  so  might  seriously  prejudice  your  rights,  might  lead  into  a  couri^l 
of  action  which  might  conceivably  result  in  further  action  by  th! 
Congress  in  this  case. 

With  that,  the  witness  is  excused  and  the  subpena  will  be  extende 
until  a  future  date,  and  you  will  receive  notification.  I  am  sure  tha 
you  can  find  the  address  of  the  Civil  Liberties  Union  in  the  telephon 
book,  and  you  are  advised  to  obtain  the  services  of  counsel  at  the  earli 
est  convenient  moment. 

(Whereupon  the  witness  was  excused.) 

IVIr.  Wheeler.  Mr.  Breger. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Will  you  please  raise  your  right  hand  ? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  shall  give  to  this  sub 
committee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  tli 
truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Be  seated,  please. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4663 

TESTIMONY  OF  LEO  I.  BREGER.  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS  COUNSEL. 
DANIEL  G.  MARSHALL 

'  I  Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  is  your  name,  please  ? 
;•  Mr.  Marshall.  Excuse  me. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Off  the  record. 

Mr.  Marshall.  I  would  like  this  to  be  on  the  record,  Mr.  Jackson. 
;  would  like  the  record  to  show  that  Mr.  Breger  desires  to  have  present 
iiis  wife,  who  accompanied  him  here  this  morning,  and  just  before 
ve  got  on  the  record  now  we  asked  permission  to  have  Mrs.  Breger 
md  the  Chair  ruled  that  she  should  not  be  present  and,  accordingly, 
■xcluded  her  from  the  hearing.    Is  that  correct,  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes ;  with  the  further  addenda  that  the  policy  of  the 
■onimittee  has  been  that  executive  hearings  should  be  entirely  execu- 
ive  in  nature  and  confined  to  counsel  and  witness. 

Mr.  Doyle,  And  I  suggest,  Mr.  Chairinan,  too,  that  further,  we 
lave  our  policy  which  is  not  to  allow  any  situation  to  develop  before 
)ur  committee  which  may  involve  the  confidential  relationship  between 
msband  and  wife  before  our  committee. 

Mr.  Marshall.  May  I  have  that  statement  of  Mr.  Doyle's  read? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes,  the  reporter  Avill  read  it. 

(The  record  was  read.) 

ISIr.  Marshall.  Now,  before  the 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  JVIarshall,  I  don't  want  to  unduly  labor  this,  but 
he  rules  of  the  committee,  of  course,  are  that  counsel  shall  counsel 
vith  the  witness  and  advise  him  upon  his  constitutional  rights,  but 
,>hall  not  make  motions  or  argue  questions  with  the  committee. 

Mr.  Marshall.  Mr.  Jackson 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  leaned  over  backwards  on  the  opening  statement 
because  I  didn't  want  to  get  controversy  into  the  record,  but  at  this 
:)oint  I  must  ask  committee  counsel  to  proceed  M'ith  the  questioning  of 
he  witness. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please? 

Mr.  Breger.  Leo  I.  Breger,  B-r-e-g-e-r. 

^h\  Jackson.  At  this  point  I  should  also  like  to  inform  counsel 
[\vAt  the  consultation  facilities  in  the  room  are  very  limited  and  if  at 
my  time  he  desires  to  consult  outside  the  room,  I  hope  counsel  and 
the  witness  will  feel  free  to  do  so. 

Mr.  Marshall.  We  will  avail  ourselves  of  that  right  if  the 
pccasion  should  arise. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  accompanied  b}-  counsel,  Mr.  Breger? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  am. 

Ml'.  Tavenner.  Will  counsel  please  identify  himself  for  the  record? 

Mr.  Marshall.  Daniel  G.  Marshall,  1151  South  Broadway,  Los 
Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Breger? 

Mr,  Breger.  Mr.  Counsel,  Mr.  Jackson,  I  just  wonder  if  I  might 
ask  that  I  be  given  the  right  to  object  to  this  executive  session,  the 
character  of  it,  and  that  I  think  a  public  session  would  be  more  to  my 
interest  and  the  interest  of  the  committee's  activities;  and  that  my 
objection  to  the  executive  session  be  noted  in  the  record. 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  is  so  noted  in  the  record. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  and  when  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  October  29,  1910,  New  York  City. 


4664        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliere  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  3547  Federal  Avenue,  Los  Angeles  34. 

Mr.  TA\TE]srNER.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Los  Angeles? 

Mr.  Breger.  Since  1934. 

Mr.  Ta-s^nner.  Prior  to  that  time  did  you  reside  in  New  York 
City? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  your 
formal  educational  training  has  been  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  took  a  bachelor-of-science-degree  course  with  the 
New  York  University  and  West  Virginia  University. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Would  you  mind  giving  the  dates  of  the  completion 
of  your  work  at  those  two  institutions  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  believe  New  York  University  was  from  1928  to  1931; 
West  Virginia  University  I  attended  the  following  year,  1932,  but 
didn't  receive  my  degree  until  I  had  completed  some  Army  service 
many  years  later.  I  received  my  degree  from  West  Virginia,  given 
my  credits  from  the  Army  training  I  received.  They  accepted  that. 
I  think  I  got  my  degree  in  1947,  which  was  a  little  belated,  but  very 
welcome.  And  took  a  year  of  graduate  work,  Univercity  of  Southern 
California,  and  Social  Work  School,  and  received  a  certificate  of  social 
work  from  the  University  of  Southern  California  in  1948. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  in  the  armed  services  of  the 
United  States? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  think  precisely  a  little  more  than  10  months — under 
a  year,  less  than  a  year. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  And  what  was  that  date,  approximately  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  Yes.  It  was  from  about  April  1945  until  January  of 
1946, 

Mr.  Tavenner,  What  is  your  present  occupation,  trade,  or  employ- 
ment ? 

Mr,  Breger,  I  am  employed  as  a  social  case  worker  with  the  Los 
Angeles  County  Department  of  Charities, 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  the  nature 
of  your  employment  has  been  since  1934,  when  you  first  came  to 
California? 

Mr.  Breger,  May  I  consult  with  counsel  ? 

Mr,  Jackson.  Surely. 
.    (At  this  point  Mr.  Breger  conferred  with  Mr.  Marshall.) 

Mr.  Breger.  Beginning  in  1944,  wiien  I  first  came  here,  a  varied! 
history,  I  was  on  WPA.  I  worked  for  myself.  I  had  a  sort  of  junk 
business  for  several  years.  Unemployed  for  some  time.  And  I  believe 
I  got  my  first  civil-service  job  with  the  War  Department  in  1940  here 
at  Eighth  and  Figueroa.  They  were  beginning  to  increase  their 
personnel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Excuse  me.    I  didn't  get  the  date. 

Mr.  Breger.  I  believe  it  was  1940,  I  took  an  examination  as  a  clerk 
and  was  called  to  work  for  them,  I  believe  the  office  was  at  Eighth 
and  Figueroa.'  That  is  a  branch  of  the  Army  called  the  Corps  of 
Engineers.  And  I  worked  for  them  and  was  promoted  to  an  engi- 
neering aide  and — let's  see.  The  war  started  in  1941,  Yes,  I  worked 
for  them  a  little  over  a  year,  until  1942,  when  I  asked  for  my  release, 
because  the  Government  was  asking  for  people  who  worked  in  war 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4665 

actories  and  I  felt  we  were  more  or  less  overstaffed,  and  I  was  granted 
erniission— at  that  time  I  think  you  had  to  ask  permission  to  leave 
our  employment  because  the  jobs  were  frozen. 

I  went  to  work  in  a  small  machine  shop  to  learn  to  become  a  ma- 
hinist,  and  in  1942-44  I  worked  for  different  aircraft — Timm  Air- 
raft,  working  on  small  parts  of  aircraft.  And  in  1945  I  volunteered 
or  the  Army,  and  the  draft  board  tried  to  dissuade  me,  and  finally 
ccepted  my  offer  and  I  was  in  the  Army  from  March  or  April  of 
945  until  January  of  1946.  Went  to  work  for  the  department  of 
harities  March  of  1946,  and  have  been  there  since. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  received  an  honorable  discharge  from  the  Army  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  did,  and,  in  addition,  some  excellent  training  which 

utilized  to  complete  my  formal  education,  good  enough  to  help  me 
Dmplete  my  formal  education. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Has  your  w^ork  since  1946  with  the  government — is 
c,  State  or  county  ? 

Mr.  Breger,  County  employees.  Los  Angeles  County  is  our  em- 
loyer.  Since  1946  I  have  worked  continually  for  the  same  agency, 
ir  the  same  kind  of  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Breger,  the  committee  has  received  testimony 
rom  Harold  G.  Ashe  that  approximately  in  the  year  1935  there  was 
3rmed  in  the  city  of  Los  Angeles  a  professional  group  of  the  Com- 
mnist  Party,  and  that  from  that  time  on  the  Communist  Party  or- 
anization  consisted  of  what  was  known  as  a  downtown  group  of  the 
iommunist  Party  in  Los  Angeles,  and  certain  professional  cells. 

Were  you  a  member  of  either  of  those  groups  of  the  Communist 
'arty?  That  is,  were  you  knowingly  a  member  of  the  Communist 
'arty  in  one  or  the  other  of  those  groups  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  May  I  consult  with  counsel? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes;  please  do. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Breger  conferred  with  Mr.  Marshall.) 

Mr.  Breger.  Mr.  Jackson,  Mr.  Doyle,  I  believe  Mr.  Tavenner  asked 
le  a  question,  and  I  decline  to  answer  this  question  for  the  foUow- 
\g  reason :  That  this  question,  I  feel,  is  an  invasion  of  my  rights 
s  a  decent,  self-respecting  American  citizen,  and  I  would  degrade 
lyself  and  my  family  if  I  permitted  this  committee  or  any  other 
ammittee  to  pry  into  my  ideas  and  associations.  The  first  and  fifth 
mendments  of  our  Bill  of  Rights  afford  the  protection  against  such 
n  invasion  of  my  basic  constitutional  rights,  and  I  decline  to  answer 
y  reason  of  my  rights  under  these  amendments. 

Moreover,  my  invocation  of  the  fifth  amendment  does  not  allow  you 
r  anyone  else  to  infer  any  guilt  or  criminal  proclivities  on  my  part. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Breger,  I  have  before  me  a  photostatic  copy  of 
n  affidavit  of  change  of  registration  under  date  purportedly  signed 
y  you,  under  date  of  January  28,  1936. 

I  hand  it  to  you  and  ask  you  if  you  will  identify  that  as  constituting 

copy  of  the  original  which  you  executed. 

Mr.  Breger.  Mr.  Jackson,  Mr.  Tavenner.  I  decline  to  answer  this 
uestion  on  the  same  grounds  that  I  stated  in  answer  to  the  previous 
uestion. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  the  document  in  evidence  and  ask 
lat  it  be  marked  "Breger  Exhibit  No.  1." 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  may  be  received. 


4666       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

(Affidavit  of  change  of  registration,  January  28,  1936,  was  marki 
''Breger  Exhibit  No.  1.")  ^ 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  noted  from  the  face  of  the  document,  under 
9,  the  following : 

I  intend  to  affiliate  at  the  ensuing  primary  election  with  the  Republican  Par 
underneath  which  appears, 
Change  to  Communist,  May  21,  193  — 

and  the  last  figure  of  the  year  is  not  discernible. 

Did  you  change  registration  to  that  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Marshall.  May  I  see  that  document  again  ? 

Mr.  Jacksoist.  You  may. 

Mr.  Marshall.  May  we  have  that  question  read  ? 

(The  question  was  read.) 

Mr.  Breger.  This  question,  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  decline  to  answer  on  t 
same  grounds  that  I  have  given  previously  to  the  first  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  just  observe  this :  As  I  look  at  t 
same  photostat  of  the  record  which  the  witness  and  his  counsel  ha 
observed,  as  long  as  the  date  which  our  committee  counsel  has  call 
attention  to,  the  last  figure  of  it  is  not  discernible,  I  think  this  phot; 
Stat  exhibit  just  offered  clearly  shows  that  it  is  subscribed  and  sworn 
before  Adelaid  M.  Mellon,  deputy  registrar  of  voters,  on  January  c 
1936.  That  would  apparently  fix  the  date  upon  which  the  signatu 
was  affixed  to  that  registration. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Immediately  below  the  notation 

Change  to  Communist,  May  21,  193  — 

with  a  figure  not  discernible,  appears  the  following  words : 
Canceled  by  transfer  to  1503,  6-3-38, 

indicating  June  3,  1938. 

Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  to  what  voting  precinct 

May  I  change  the  question,  please  ? 

Immediatel}^  under  the  notation  "Change  to  Communist,  5-2 
193  — ,"  which  the  last  figure  not  discernible,  it  appears  that  tl 
registration  was  canceled  by  transfer  to  Precinct  1503  on  June  3,  19^ 

Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  whether  or  not  you  register 
at  any  later  date  than  June  3,  1938,  as  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  decline  to  answer  this  question  for  the  reasons  givi 
previously,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Breger,  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  } 
oath  and  affidavit  purportedly  signed  by  you  and  sworn  to  on  t] 
26th  day  of  July  1948,  before  Earl  Lippold,  county  clerk,  or,  rathe 
before  Marian  Doran,  deputy  county  clerk. 

Now,  I  will  ask  you  to  examine  the  document  and  state  whether  ^ 
not  you  executed  the  original  thereof. 

Mr.  Breger.  To  that  question,  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  decline  to  answ' 
on  the  same  basis  as  I  have  declined  previously. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  this  in  evidence,  the  photostat 
copy  of  the  oath  and  affidavit,  and  ask  that  it  be  marked  "Breger  E: 
hibit  No.  2." 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  will  be  admitted. 


1  Retained  in  committee  files. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4667 

(Copy  of  oath  and  aiFidavit,  July  26,  1948,  was  marked  "Breger 
Exhibit  No.  2.")2 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Breger,  it  is  noted,  upon  examination  of  the 
locument,  Breger  exhibit  No.  2,  that  section  D  provides  as  follows : 

Membership  in  organizations :  I  do  further  swear  or  affirm  that  I  have  never 
)een  a  member  of,  or  directly  or  indirectly  supported  or  followed  any  of  the  here- 
nafter  listed  organizations  except  those  that  I  indicate  by  an  X  mark. 

Ajid  there  appear  several  pages  of  names  of  organizations,  among 
:hem  being  American  Commmiist  Party.  There  appears  no  check 
nark  indicating  an  answer  to  that  question. 

Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  why  it  was  that  you  did  not 
mswer  that  question  in  your  oath  and  affidavit? 

Mr.  Breger.  Excuse  me  just  a  moment. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Berger  conferred  with  Mr.  Marshall.) 

Mr.  Breger.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  for 
he  reasons  given  to  the  answer  of  my  first  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Berger,  have  you  at  any  time  since  September 
10,  1948,  knowingly  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  basis  of  the 
mswer  given  previously. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  not  true  that  you  failed  to  answer  the  ques- 
tion D  in  the  oath  and  affidavit  because  of  the  fact  that  you  were  at 
hat  time  or  had  been  a  member  of  the  Conmiunist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  Same  question,  same  answer,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  any  time  since  September  10,  1948, 
linowingly  a  member  of  any  organization  with  knowledge  that  it  advo- 
ated  the  forceful  and  violent  overthrow  of  the  Government  of  the 
United  States,  or  any  State? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  basis  of  the  fifth-amendment 
protection,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Breger.  Just  a  minute.  I  want  to  amend  my  last  answer. 
In  addition  to  the  fifth  amendment,  the  other  grounds  which  I  have 
stated  previously  in  the  answer  to  the  first  question,  all  my  grounds, 
and  that  answer  I  want  to  hold  true  for  this  particular  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  That  is  essentially  the  same  question,  and  I  reply  with 
the  same  answer,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Breger,  are  you  aware  of  the  employment  by 
the  county  of  Los  xYngeles  of  any  person  or  persons  known  to  be 
members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Breger.  I  must  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  basis 
of  the  answer  given  previously. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Doyle  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  witness  is  excused  from  further  attendance 

Mr.  Marshall.  There  are  reporters  present 

Mr.  Jackson.  Just  a  moment.     Off  the  record. 

(Discussion  off  the  record.) 


^  Retained  in  committee  files. 


4668        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFOKXIA 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr,  Marshall,  you  started  to  say  there  were  reporters 
present.  You  don't  mean  reporters  present  in  this  executive  hearing, 
they  are  outside  this  individual  room. 

Mr.  Marshall.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  are  under  no  restriction. 

(Whereupon  the  witness  was  excused.) 

Mr.  Wheeler.  Mr.  Dunkel. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Will  you  please  raise  your  right  hand  ? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  shall  give  to  this  sub- 
committee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Be  seated,  please. 

TESTIMONY  OF  JOHN  DUNKEL 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  is  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  John  Dunkel,  D-u-n-k-e-1. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  noted  that  you  are  not  accompanied  by  counsel,' 

Mr.  Dunkel.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  wants  you  to  understand  that  you 
are  perfectly  free  to  consult  counsel  at  any  time  during  your  interro- 
gation and  to  have  counsel  with  you  if  you  so  desire. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Well,  I  don't  really  believe  there  is  any  necessity  for  it. 

Mr.  Ta\^nner.  Do  you  appear  here  pursuant  to  a  subpena  served 
upon  you,  or  are  you  appearing  voluntarily  ? 

Mr.  Dunk:el.  I  am  appearing  voluntarily. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  you  have  written  a  letter  to  the  committee 
stating  certain  facts  within  your  knowledge  and  requesting  that  the 
committee  hear  you. 

Mr.  Dunkel,  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  May  I  ask  this,  in  view  of  that,  Mr.  Counsel : 

Have  you  in  any  way,  directly  or  any  other  way,  been  offered  any 
reward  or  pay  or  inducement  for  appearing  here  voluntarily  this 
morning? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  No,  not  at  all, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  your  born,  Mr.  Dunkel? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Springfield,  Ohio,  February  21,  1915. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  the  committee,  please,  a  brief  state- 
ment of  your  formal  educational  training  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  am  a  high-school  graduate.  I  attended  Wittenberg 
College  in  Springfield,  Ohio,  for  1  year.  And  that  is  all  the  formal 
educational  training  I  have  had. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  ^our  profession,  trade,  or  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  am  a  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  general  field? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Well,  I  have  been  mostly  in  radio,  radio  writer  and 
editor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  now  reside? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  1933  Holly  Drive,  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  California  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Well,  I  first  came  here  in  1933,  and  I  have  actually 
made  it  my  home  since  that  time,  although  I  have  been  away  for 
several  months  at  a  time. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4669 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  the  committee,  please,  just  a  brief 
statement  of  your  employment  since  you  have  been  in  California? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  At  first  I — mj^  first  job  in  California  was  as  play 
feader  at  the  Pasadena  Community  Playhouse.  And  then  I  did  free- 
lance radio  writing  until  about  1040,  when  I  was  employed  by  the 
Columbia  Broadcasting  System.     And  I  worked  for  them  until  1945. 

Then  I  left  to  free  lance  for  a  year  or  so  and  went  back  to  Columbia 
Broadcasting  System  in  1946,  and  was  with  them  until  1949.  Since 
that  time  I  have  been  again  doing  some  free-lance  work,  and  also 
attempting  to  write  a  book. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  some  of 
your  principal  radio- writing  credits  have  been? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  Well,  I  Was  There — that  was  in  my  earlier  association 
with  Columbia,  The  Whistler,  and  later  Escape,  and  I  was  editor 
of  Suspense.  There  were  others,  of  course,  but  those  are  the  principal 
ones. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  may  be  just  as  well  that  I  ask  you  to  tell  the  com- 
mittee in  your  own  words  what  you  desire  to  state  about  your  knowl- 
edge of  the  Communist  Party  activities,  principally  in  the  field  of 
radio  writing. 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  Well,  my  actual  knowledge  is  set  forth  pretty  much 
in  the  letter  which  I  wrote.  I  was  approached  in  April  of  1944  to  join 
the  Communist  Party,  and  although  I  was  certainly  not  a  convinced 
Communist,  I  was  curious  mainly,  and  I  finally  agreed  to  join  by  sign- 
ing a  pledge  card;  and  I  attended  two  meetings  of  the  Hollvwood 
Radio  Club. 

Mr.  Taa-enner.  Let  me  interrupt  you  there.  It  may  be  well  at  this 
point  to  tell  the  committee  a  little  more  in  detail  the  circumstances 
under  which  you  joined  the  party. 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  Well,  I  was  contacted  by  Sam  Moore,  whom  I  knew, 
of  course,  because  I  was  a  member  of  the  Radio  Writers'  Guild  council. 

Mr.  Ta\t;nner.  What  position  did  Sam  Moore  hold  at  that  time  in 
the  Radio  Writers'  Council? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Well,  he  has  held  a  lot,  and  I  believe  at  that  time  that 
lie  was  western  vice  president,  but  I  cannot  be  absolutely  certain.  At 
any  rate,  he  was  a  member  of  the  council. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  the  leader  in  the  entire  field  of  radio,  was  he 
not? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  That  is  right,  yes. 

]Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  And  he  contacted  me.  Well,  actually,  it  was  through 
Dwight  Hauser,  who  also  worked  at  CBS.  and  Dwight  said  that  Sam 
wanted  to  talk  to  me.  And  1  understood  at  that  point  that  Dwight 
was  a  member  of  the  party.  So  I  had  a  luncheon  date  with  Sam  Moore 
and  he  talked  with  me  about  it  and  asked  me  to  join,  put  it  as  a  great 
honor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  I  should  interrupt  you  at  this  moment  to  let 
the  record  show  that  Mr.  Dwight  Hauser  has  testified  before  the  com- 
mittee, has  fully  cooperated  with  it,  and,  according  to  his  testimony, 
withdrew  from  the  party  quite  some  years  ago. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  think  that  is  true ;  yes. 


4670       COMMUlSriST  activities  in  the  state  of  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  that  Mr.  Sam  Moore  was  subpenaed  as  a  wit- 
ness before  the  committee  and  refused  to  answer  material  questions 
on  the  grounds  that  to  do  so  might  tend  to  incriminate  him. 

All  right,  sir. 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  I  had  quite  a  lot  of  respect  for  Sam  Moore  at  this 
time,  because  he  had  been  a  leader  in  the  guild  and  had  accomplished 
a  great  deal  for  the  guild,  and  so  I  was  inclined  to  listen  to  what  he 
had  to  say.  And  although  I  was  not,  as  I  say,  convinced  by  any  means, 
and  I  asked  him  if  I — I  would  like  to  come  to  one  meeting  as  an  ob- 
server and  see  if  it  was  anything  that  I  would  be  interested  in,  and  he 
said  that  wasn't  possible  and  that  signing  the  pledge  card  would  be  a 
requirement.   And,  as  I  say,  I  was  curious. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  you  also,  as  I  understand,  felt  flattered  by  a 
man  in  the  position  of  Sam  Moore  having  this  personal  conference 
with  you  when  you  were  just  a  young  writer  at  the  time. 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Wliat  was  his  position  in  the  guild  at  that  time  that 
flattered  you  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  As  I  say,  I  can't  remember  exactly  whether  he  was 
the  vice  president  of  the  western  region  or  simply  a  member  of  the 
council.  But,  at  any  rate,  he  was  the  acknowledged  leader  of  the  guild 
on  the  west  coast. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Also,  he  had  a  rather  good  position  as  a  radio  writer. 
He  was  very  well  known,  a  very  well  known  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right,  if  you  will  proceed,  please. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Well,  as  I  say,  I  signed  the  card  and  went  to  the  first 
meeting,  and  I  didn't  like  what  I  saw  and  I  was  not  favorably! 
impressed. 

My  mind  is  very  hazy  on  the  time  element.    I  am  not  sure  whether 
they  were  held  every  week  or  every  other  week,  but,  at  any  rate,  li 
am  sure  I  missed  the  next  meeting.    I  didn't  go  to  it.    And  I  was  ap- 
proached by  two  of  the  people  and  asked  to  come  back.    They  obviously 
realized  that  I  was  not  very  enthusiastic,  at  any  rate. 

And  so  I  agreed  to  go  back  to  one  more  meeting.  And  I  had  exactly 
the  same  impression  at  the  second  meeting.  And  the  following  Satur- 
day I  went  to  an  executive  committee  meeting,  which  I  had  heard 
was  in  progress,  and  I  there  told  them  that  I  could  not  be  a  member 
and  that  I  wanted  my  name  taken  off  of  their  membership  list. 

Now,  as  I  understand  it,  they  didn't  take  it  off  for  some  time;  and 
I  was  later  dropped  for  nonpayment  of  dues.  But,  actually,  I  had 
never  paid  any  dues,  and  had  never  been  actively  involved,  except  to 
attend  those  two  meetings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  were  the  two  persons  that  approached  you 
about  attending  the  second  meeting? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Henry  Blankfort  and  Pauline  Lauber. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  it  that  you  saw  in  the  two  meetings  that 
you  attended  which  resulted  in  your  change  in  attitude  about  becom- 
ing or  remaining  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Mostly  in  the  general  attitude  and  the  way  things 
were  handled.  Now,  I  might  call  your  attention  to  the  fact  that  this 
was  April  1944,  and  it  was  at  the  height  of  the  peace  offensive,  the 
Browder — I  don't  know  what  it  would  be  called,  maybe  a  love  feast — 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4671 

.erytliing  was  wonderful  with  America,  and  they  stressed  future 
)operation,  and  so  forth. 

And,  as  a  mater  of  fact,  the  only  vote  I  ever  cast  in  the  party  was 
)  dissolve  the  party  and  form  the  Communist  Political  Association, 
believe  it  was  called.  So  it  was  right  at  that  point.  Nothing 
lat  was  said  in  either  of  those  two  meetings  seemed  to  me  to  be 
angerous  or  subversive  at  all,  because  they  were  saying  exactly  the 
lings  that  lots  of  other  people  were  saying.  There  was  no  talk  of 
^volution,  or  if  it  was  anything  like  that  that  was  mentioned,  it  was 
lat  there  was  an  end  to  that  sort  of  thing,  that  from  now  on  every- 
ling  would  be  cooperation. 

Therefore,  it  wasn't  exactly  what  was  said,  but  the  way  the  whole 
iing  was  handled.  It  was  handled  dictatorially,  and,  well,  we  were 
ind  of  preached  to  as  if  we  couldn't  think  for  ourselves.  And  there 
as  no  argument  allowed,  and  very  little  discussion.  And  this  was  not 
ly  idea  of  the  way  a  political  discussion  should  be  handled,  and  it 
)nfirmed  in  my  mind  criticisms  which  I  had  heard  but  didn't  quite 
elieve  or  wasn't  sure  about. 

Now  they  were  confirmed  in  my  mind  and  I  felt  that  the  critics 

f  the  Communist  Party  were  probably  right.     And,  therefore,  the 

ariosity  that  had  prompted  my  looking  in  it  was  pretty  well  satisfied. 

]\Ir.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  you  appear  to  have  entered  the 

^ommunist  Party  with  certain  mental  reservations  in  your  mind 

Mr.  DuNicEL.  Very  definitely. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  finally  resolved  those  reservations  against  the 
Communist  Party. 
Mr.  DuNKEL.  Very  quickly,  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  were  the  leaders  in  the  Conununist  move- 
lent  in  this  group  ? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  In  this  group  the  leader — I  don't  know  what  he  was 
ailed — was  Henry  Blankfort,  and  Sam  Moore  seemed  to  be  his 
s^istant.  Pauline  Lauber  was  secretary,  I  believe. 
There  was  a  woman  or  girl,  whose  name  I  never  learned,  who  was 
rea surer.  And  a  man  by  the  name  of  Robin  Short  seemed  also  to 
>e  a  member  of  the  executive  committee.  That  is  all  I  can  remember. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  tell  the  committee  or  give  the  committee 
he  names  of  any  other  persons  who  attended  either  of  the  meetings 
hat  you  attended? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  I  didn't  know  many  of  them.  I  was  rather  new 
n  radio,  outside  of  my  CBS  group.     I  didn't  know  many  of  them, 

•x(e})t  Hy  Alexander, 

?dr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  present? 

Mv.  DuNKEL,  He  was  present — and  Georgia  Backus.     They  were 
jotb  members  of  the  Radio  Writers'  Guild  council.     So  I  knew  them. 
I  knew,  of  course,  my  friend  Irving  Ravetch. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  Irving  Ravetch  remained 
n  the  Communist  Party,  or  left  the  Communist  Party  about  the 
ime  you  did  ? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  I  know  that  he  did  leave  it  at  the  same  time,  be- 
cause we  more  or  less  shared  the  experience,  talked  it  over,  and  very 
iefinitely  decided  the  same  things  about  it.  And  he  is  still  my  friend, 
md  I  know  how  he  feels  about  everything.  And  he  has  had  no 
further  activity  at  all. 


4672        CO]\iMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  we  understand  correctly  that  you  have  had  i 
association  or  affiliation  with  the  Communist  Party  or  its  activitie 
to  your  knowledge,  since  that  time  ? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  the  names  of  any  other  persons  wl: 
were  present  at  these  meetings  ? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  No,  I  don't.  I  met  Abe  Burrows  in  the  hall  of  Sai 
Moore's  house  wdien  I  arrived  for  the  first  meeting,  I  believe  it  wa 
and  he  was  a  member  of  the  Radio  Writers'  Guild  council  at  that  tim 
and,  of  course,  I  knew  him.  But  I  cannot  say  that  he  stayed  for  th; , 
meeting,  nor  can  I  say  positively  that  he  was  a  member  of  the  groui 
because  I  don't  remember  that  he  did — I  don't  remember  seeing  hii, 
again. 

I  have  seen  newspaper  reports,  the  names  of  people  whom  I  kne 
later  in  radio  as  having  been  members  of  that  group,  but  I  didn 
know  them  and  I  cannot  positively  say  that  I  saw  tliem  there.  i 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  don't,  either. 

I  wish  to  thank  you  for  volunteering  to  help  your  Congress,  tj 
United  States  Congi-ess,  in  trying  to  meet  this  problem,  officially,  c 
subversive  activities  in  our  country  in  the  Communist  Party  or  an 
other  group  or  individual. 

Do  you  have  any  suggestions  to  make  to  the  committee? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  No.  I  have  thought  about  it,  and  it  is  a  difficult  prol 
lem,  I  realize.  And  I  just  don't  feel  that  I  know  enough  about  tl 
inner  activities  to  really  offer  any  constructive  suggestions. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  find  any  difficulty  in  contacting  the  committ( 
to  make  your  appearance? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  No,  I  didn't. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  found  our  staff  cooperative  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  Very  cooperative. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  handled  it  yourself  directly?  You  didn't  ask  ar 
intermediary  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  went  to  Dwight  Hauser,  when  I  saw  that  he  ha 
testified,  and  asked  him  how  to  get  in  touch  with  you. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Can  you  think  of  any  ways  or  means  that  the  committ« 
might  take  to  have  other  men  and  women  in  your  profession,  or  relate 
thereto,  to  have  a  result  such  as  yours,  for  a  voluntary  appearance,  i 
help  Congress  understand  this  problem  and  better  handle  it?  Is  thei 
any  way  we  can  get  to  more  people  in  your  profession  ? 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  don't  really  know  any  concrete  steps  that  you  ca 
take,  but  I  do  believe  that  the  kind  of  treatment  I  have  received,  an 
Dwight  Hauser  told  me  that  he  received,  is  certainly  helpful  in  thi 
regard. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Then  we  invite  you  to  spread  that  word. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  All  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  We  invite  you,  also,  to — of  course,  it  doesn't  apply  s 
much  to  you,  sir,  because  you  were  only  in  a  short  time,  but  I  fi'(; 
quently  say  to  a  person  who  has  been  in,  put  a  lot  of  vim,  vigor,  an 
vitality  into  speaking  and  acting  and  working  against  the  Communis 
conspiracy. 

Mr.  Dunkel.  I  try  to  do  that  whenever  I  can,  whenever  I  see  ajj 
opportunity.  But,  Jis  I  say,  I  don't  have  a  lot  of  annnunitioii.  J 
didn't  stay  in  long  enough  to  really  know  the  intricate  working; 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4673 

'  saw  as  much  as  I  needed  to  see  for  my  own  particular  point  of  view. 
5ut  I  couldn't 

Mr.  Doyle.  Possibly  there  will  come  a  time  when  you  can  appropri- 
tely  make  a  script  of  some  sort  or  story  of  some  sort. 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  I  really  hope  that  that  is  true :  and  I  have  thought  a 
5t  about  it.  and  I  hope  I  can  do  something. 

JNIr.  DoYT.E.  Did  our  counsel  ask  if  Sam  Moore  ever  urged  you  to 
et  back  in? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  At  the  executive  committee  meeting  where  I  resigned, 
0  to  speak,  he  was  present  and  he  did  talk  to  me  quite  a  lot,  but  he 
ever  again  approached  me,  partly  because  I  made  my  attitude  quite 
'lear,  and  also  in  the  following  year  or  so  I  found  an  opportunity  to 
p]K)se  him  on  the  Radio  Writers"  Guild  council  a  couple  of  times,  on 
^sues  which  I  felt  were  more  involved  with  the  Communist  line  than 

itli  the  w^elfare  of  the  guild.  And,  therefore,  he  knew  my  attitude 
retty  clearly  and  he  has  never  been  very  friendly  with  me  since. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  weren't  invited  to  that  executive  session?  You 
ent  yourself? 

Mr.  DuNKEL.  I  went  mj^self. 

My.  Doyle.  Thank  you  very  much. 

(Whereupon  the  witness  was  excused.) 

Mr.  Wheeler.  Mr.  Ravetch. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Ravetch.  will  you  raise  your  right  hand? 

I  )o  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  shall  give  to  this  sub- 
aiiimittee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 

uth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  do. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Be  seated,  please. 

TESTIMONY  OP  IRVING  RAVETCH 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AVliat  is  your  name,  please,  sir? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Irving  Ravetch. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  I  note  that  you  do  not  have  counsel  accompanying 
ou.  It  is  the  proper  practice  of  the  committee — I  always  explain  to 
witnesses  that  they  have  the  right  to  confer  with  counsel  at  any  time 
.uring  the  period  of  their  examination  and  to  have  counsel  with  them 
oth  in  open  and  executive  meetings,  if  they  so  desire. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  desire  to  proceed  w^ithout  having  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Yes,  I  do,  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Ra\t5tch.  Newark,  N.  J.,  November  14,  1920. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  now  reside? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  live  at  4131^  Veteran  Avenue  in  Los  Angeles  24. 

Mr.  Ta\t3nner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Los  Angeles? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Well,  I  was  a  student  here.  I  came  from  Long  Beach, 
'alif.,  in  1939,  and  went  to  UCLA.    So  I  guess 

]\Ir.  Tavenner.  Let  me  approach  the  matter  another  way.  Will 
ou  tell  the  committee,  first,  what  educational  training  you  have  had, 
nd  then  follow  it  by  a  statement  of  what  your  employment  or  occupa- 
ion  has  been  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Well,  I  am  a  graduate  of  the  University  of  California, 
t  Los  Angeles,  graduating  in  1941.    I  served  in  the  Army  briefly. 


4674        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

And  then  I  went  to  work  as  a  free-lance  writer,  or,  rather,  as  a  sta) 
writer  at  CBS  in  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  that  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  In  1943.  After  a  year  there  I  went  to  work  a 
M.  G.  M.  in  Culver  City,  1944, 1945,  and  1946.  Since  1946  I  have  bee 
a  free-lance  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  field  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Motion  pictures,  largely;  selling  original  stories  t 
various  studios,  taking  assignments  from  time  to  time  with  a  studi( 
But  under  contract  nowhere  since  then. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  worked  particularly  in  the  field  of  radio 

Mr.  Ravetch.  For  1  year  back  in  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  some  o 
your  principal  screen  and  radio  credits  have  been  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  My  radio  credits  don't  bear  analysis,  because  as 
staff  writer  I  was  writing  continuity  for  western  singers  or  sta 
singers  on  the  station. 

In  pictures  I  have  mainly  written  westerns.  I  have  four  wester 
credits,  actually. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  are  they  ? 

Mr.  Ra\t:tch.  The  Outriders,  M.  G.  M.  Vengeance  Valley,  M.  G.  ]\ 
The  original  story  of  Lone  Hand,  Universal-International.  Tb 
original  story  of  Run  For  Cover,  Pine-Thomas.  The  original  stoT 
of  Paid  in  Full,  for  Harry  Joe  Bown.    And  that's  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  appear  here  pursuant  to  a  subpena,  or  ai 
3'ou  appearing  here  voluntarily  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  am  a  voluntary  witness. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  received  a  communication  f roi  | 
3^ou  giving  it  certain  facts  regarding  your  experiences  in  connectio  i 
with  the  Communist  Party,  and,  as  I  understand  it,  you  have  indicate 
a  desire  and  a  willingness  to  appear  under  oath  before  the  committe  ; 

Mr.  Ra\t;tch.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  give  it  such  facts  as  you  have,  is  that  correct 

Mr.  Ravetch.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well,  sir,  if  you  will  proceed  to  tell  the  coir 
mittee  whether  or  not  you  at  any  time  became  affiliated  with  tb 
Communist  Party;  if  so,  what  were  the  circumstances  under  whic 
you  became  a  Communist  Party  member,  what  your  experiences  wei 
while  in  the  Communist  Party,  and  if  you  withdrew  from  the  Con 
munist  Party,  what  the  circumstances  of  your  withdrawal  were, 
believe  that  you  can  go  ahead  and  cover  that  without  my  asking  yo 
questions. 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Right.     In  April  of  1944  for  an  extremely  bri© 

Seriod,  literally  for  2  weeks,  I  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Partj 
[y  motives  for  joining,  in  trying  to  reconstruct  them  now,  were  ur 
reasoned,  and  actually,  I  suppose,  partook  of  a  reckless  type  of  curi 
osity  to  see  what  was  going  on.    I  was  a  lot  younger  than  I  am  now. 

The  party's  social  program  and  its  ardent  desire  to  win  the  wai 
to  finish  off  the  war  with  Hitler,  were  rather  attractive  elements,  an« 
I  can  only  tell  you  that  I  was  duped  by  thoni,  as  many  other  men  o 
good  will  have  been,  because  of  these  particular  programs. 

Sitting  in  two  Communist  meetings  in  1944  very  quickly  convince* 
me  that  I  had  made  a  mistake,  and  I  got  out  instantly. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4675 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  it  that  convinced  you  that  you  had  made  a 
nistake  ? 

Mr.  Ra VETCH.  The  reconstruction  is  very  difficult.  I  realized  it  was 
roolish  to  be  a  Communist  Party  member.  I  realized  I  had  made  an 
jrror,  a  foolish  error,  at  the  time.  I  had,  I  quickly  discovered,  very 
ittle  in  common  with  the  people  I  saw  around  me  in  the  two  meetings ; 
;hat  there  was  an  air  of  fanaticism,  a  kind  of  zealous  fate  which 
Tightened  me  and  made  me  want  to  leave  quickly.  I  simply  came  to 
;he  conclusion  that  I  was  not  a  joiner,  certainly  not  a  joiner  here,  that 
[  didn't  belong  here. 

I  perhaps  can  cite  an  example  which  might  prove  of  interest:  I 
vvas  told  the  first  time  I  sat  in  the  meeting  that  Communists  had  a  very 
l^pecial  key,  a  key  to  knowledge  and  a  way  of  life,  that  dialectical 
Marxism  taught  a  man  all  he  had  to  know  to  get  along  in  the  world. 

The  speaker  stated  that  Communists  are  said  to  follow  a  party  line 
md  people  who  level  this  charge  themselves  cite  as  an  example  the 
fact  that  two  Communists  at  opposite  ends  of  the  pole  in  the  world 
i:an  get  up  and  speak  on  the  same  topic  and  say  almost  literally  the 
-ame ;  if  you  have  the  key  you  can  give  the  right  answers. 

This  was  phony  and  I  knew  immediately  that  I  had  made  a  mistake. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  W^io  made  the  address  to  you  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Henry  Blankfort,  who  was  apparently  the  chairman 
)f  this  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  facts  as  to  how  you 
,rot  into  the  party  ?  Did  you  solicit  membership,  or  were  you  solicited 
o  become  a  member  ? 

\  Mr.  Ravetch.  Actually,  I  was  solicited  by  Henry,  the  same  Henry 
Blankfort,  over  a  period  of  a  few  weeks,  or  even  a  few  months.  Dwight 
Hauser,  who  worked  at  CBS  at  the  same  time,  and  who  didn't  even 
remember  me,  quite  logically 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mean  when  he  testified  before  the  committee? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  That  is  right.  He  quite  forgot  me,  I  am  certain,  be- 
•aiise  I  was  there  so  briefly;  and  we  worked  together  at  CBS,  and  I 
lecall  his  discussing  the  advantages  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  the  record  should  show  at  this  place  that 
Mr.  Dwight  Hauser  cooperated  fully  with  this  committee  and  testi- 
fied before  it  and  demonstrated  that  he  had  left  the  Communist  Party 
in  good  faith  and  was  no  longer  connected  with  it. 

Now,  what  were  the  actual  circumstances  surrounding  your  leaving 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  simply  never  appeared  again.  I  was  not  solicited 
to  return.  Nobody,  apparently,  even  noticed  that  I  dropped  out.  I 
went  twice  in  April  1944,  probably  on  succeeding  weeks,  on  two  suc- 
•eeding  weeks.  I  never  went  again.  I  paid  them  not  a  cent  in  dues. 
[  ]  )articipated  in  none  of  their  discussions  or  any  of  their  activities. 

I  quite  frankly  must  tell  you  that  I  never,  apart  from  the  literal  fact 
'f  being  present — I  don't  consider  myself,  through  conviction  or  any- 
thing else,  a  member  of  the  party  or  that  I  ever  was. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  Did  you  sign  an  application  card  to  be  a  member,  Mr. 
Ravetch?  Did  Mr.  Blankfort  present  a  card  to  you  to  sign,  a  pledge 
■ard  or  application  card  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  was,  it  seems  to  me,  so  irresponsible  about  this  move 
that  I  don't  remember  actually  signing  anything  at  any  time. 


4676        COMIMUXIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  me  who  were  the  leaders  of  this  group, 
so  far  as  you  could  ascertain  from  the  two  meetings  which  you  at- 
tended ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Henry  Blankfort  was  apparently  one  leader.  Sam 
Moore  was  apparently  another.  They  appeared  to  share  the  respon- 
sibility for  discussions  and  the  routine  of  the  meetings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  whether  these  two  meetings  that  you 
attended  were  closed  Communist  Party  meetings,  in  the  sense  that 
they  were  not  open  to  attendance  by  nonmembers  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  seem  to  recall  people  coming  in  and  going  out  in 
the  course — the  atmosphere  was  a  very  relaxed  one,  and  certainly  gave 
the  impression  of  being  nothing  in  the  world  like  a  subversive  or 
undercover  meeting.  So  I  would  be  inclined  to  say,  perhaps,  it  was 
an  open  meeting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  see  dues  collected  at  that  meeting,  or  either 
of  them  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  remember  a  short  discussion  about  dues,  about  the 
necessity  for  supporting  the  party  financially,  but  I  don't  actually 
think  I  saw  anybody  collect  money. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Communist  Party  business,  however,  was  discussed 
at  the  meeting  that  you  attended  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Yes.  There  was  a  discussion  of  the  book  review  of, 
1  guess  it  was  Earl  Browder's  pamphlet  of  the  Conference  at  Teheran. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  who  were  present  at 
these  two  meetings,  as  far  as  you  can  recall  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  My  information  is  extremely  meager  on  this  point. 
The  people  I  knew  were  people  with  whom  I  had  other  contact  in 
radio.  Apart  from  the  two  gentlemen  who  appeared  to  be  the  co- 
chairmen  and  Mr.  Hauser,  there  were  Robin  Short  and  Caren  Kinzel. 
That's  about  five.  Abe  Burrows  was  present,  or  appeared  to  walk  in 
and  out  at  one  point. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  one  or  both  meetings?  Do  you  recall  which 
one  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  The  first. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  he  take  any  part  in  the  meeting  itself  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  He  stood  in  the  back  of  the  room,  which  is  why  I  amj 
of  the  impression  that  he  came  in,  lingered  briefly  and  went  out  again. 
I  would  say  he  did  not  take  any  part. 

My  friend  John  Dunkel,  who  went  in  the  party  with  me  and  out 
of  the  party  with  me  in  the  same  period,  was  also  at  one  of  them — 
not  the  second. 

Mr.  Tavenni:r.  Was  an  effort  made  at  any  time  to  get  you  back  into  , 
the  party,  or  in  attendance  at  meetings? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Never  again.  I  dropped  out  and  never  actually  saw 
any  of  these  people  again  since  1944  to  this  day  to  my  knowledge.  I 
don't  believe  I  have  seen  any  of  them  since  1944.  1 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  were  the  meetings  held  ?  I 

Mr.  Ravetch.  The  first  was  held  at  the  home  of  Sam  Moore.  The 
second  was  held  somewhere  on  the  Sunset  Strip ;  whose  house  I  don't 
remember ;  where  the  house  was  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  did  you  receive  notice  as  to  when,  where  and 
when,  the  meetings  were  to  be  held? 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4677 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Well,  at  the  time  of  my  solicitation  I  was  invited 
o  appear  at  the  first,  and  advance  information  was  given  at  the  first 
is  to  the  second. 

Mr.  Ta\'enner.  Do  I  understand  that  you  have  had  no  connection  or 
ifRliation  with  the  Communist  Party  since  the  time  you  withdrew  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  Not  at  all. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nnee.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Doyle.  At  tlie  time  you  met  Mr.  Moore  in  connection  with  that 
Jommunist  meeting,  he  was  quite  a  leader,  wasn't  he,  in  the  writers' 
ield? 

Mv.  Ravetch.  As  I  remember,  Mr.  Doyle,  he  was  extremely  active 
n  the  Radio  Writers'  Guild.  But  at  that  time  I  myself  was  not  at  all 
ictive  in  the  guild,  so  that  I  didn't  know  him  until  this  first  meeting. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  you  were  in  the  party  just  for  a  couple  of  weeks, 
.nd  that  was  during  the  period  that  Earl  Browder  was  still  head  of 
he  American  Communist  Party  in  April  1944  ? 

Mr.  Ra\t:tch.  Evidently  he  was. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  any  suggestions  to  make  to  Congress  through 
liis  committee  as  to  what  we  should  do  differently,  if  anything,  on 
uiy  level  ?  In  other  words,  how  can  we  obtain  more  cooperation  from 
nore  of  your  brilliant  men  in  the  writing  field  in  helping  us  to  un- 
'over  real  subversives? 

Do  you  have  any  suggestions  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  That's  a  large  question,  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  D0Y1.E.  Will  you  give  it  some  definite  thought? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  surely  will,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  have  any  difficulty  in  contacting  our  staff  in 
jrder  to  meet  with  us  today  ? 

Mr.  Ravetch.  No.  I  met  you  through  Mr.  Wheeler,  of  course.  I 
would  like  to  go  on  record  as  saying  I  made  a  voluntary  trip  to  the 
FBI  in — at  the  time  of  the  outbreak  of  the  Korean  war,  and  it  finally 
seemed  to  me  that  the  lines  were  pretty  well  drawn,  and  taking  what- 
ever information  PTiad. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Thank  you  very  much  for  that,  and  thanks  for  coming 
this  morning. 

Let  me  suggest  to  you  this,  as  I  have  to  another  1  or  2  this  morning 
in  the  writers'  field  that  have  been  with  us :  You  are,  as  an  expert  in 
your  profession,  in  a  field  that  is  so  possible  for  you  to  put  a  lot  of 
vim,  vigor,  and  vitality  into  some  writing  some  day  which  will  help 
immeasurably  the  American  people  understand  more  than  we  do  know, 
even,  the  need  of  being  vigilant,  and  also  possibly  how  to  better  meet 
the  problem. 

Let  me  suggest  that  you  think  along  that  line  and  see  if  in  your 
rich  experiences  there  won't  come  a  time  when  you  can  attack  that  in 
some  way  and  really  make  a  great  contribution  in  your  own  profes- 
sion, through  your  own  professional  writing,  to  meet  this  world 
conspiracy. 

Mr.  Ravetch.  I  shall  give  it  every  thought,  I  assure  you. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Thank  you  again  for  coming. 

That  is  all. 

(Whereupon  the  witness  was  excused  and  the  hearing  was  ad- 
journed subject  to  the  call  of  the  Chair.) 


INDEX  TO  PART  3 


INDIVIDUALS 

Paga 

lexander,    Beu 4635 

Jexander,  Hy 4671 

.she,   Harold    G 4665 

;ackus,   Georgia 4671 

terman,  Mildred  (Mrs.  Phil  Berman) 4631 

lerruan,  Phil 4631 

51ankfort,  Henry 4670,  4671,  4675,  4676 

Jloor,  Ella  Reeve 4630 

Jradley,    Preston 4641,  4642 

5reger,  Leo  I 4663-i668  (testimony) 

5rowder,   Earl 4643,  4670,  4676, 4677 

>rown,  Harry  Joe 4674 

5urke,  Frances    {see  also  Decker,  Frances;  formerly  Nields;   Dessert; 

Decker;  Copeland) 4647-4651  (testimony) 

5urro\vs,   Abe 4672,  4676 

opeland,  Frances  {see  also  Burke,  Frances;  Decker,  Frances) 4648 

orliu,  Eda   {see  also  Fowler,  Eda  C.) 4657 

)ecker,  Frances   {see  also  Burke,  Frances) 4630,4636,4637,4640,4648 

)essert,  Frances  {see  also  Burke,  Frances;  Decker,  Frances) 4648 

)evalo,    Matt 4634 

)oran,  Marian 4666 

)unkel,  John 4668-4678  (testimony),  4676 

Cinstein,  Albert 4628 

shields,   Fred 4639 

'^der,  Elizabeth 4653-4657  (testimony) 

^'ogerlund,  Eda  {see  also  Fowler,  Eda  C.) 4657 

^uts,  Alberta  (Mrs.  Jay  Fonts) 4631 

-'outs.  Jay 4631 

^'owler,  Eda  C.   {see  also  Johnston,  Eda;  Fogerlund,  Eda;  Corlin,  Eda) 

4657^662  (testimony) 

jallagher,  Leo 4(535 

Jilbert,  Ruth 4639 

ilenn,  Virginia  (Mrs.  William  Glenn) 4639 

jlenn,    William 4639 

Sauser,   Dwight 4669,  4672, 4675,  4676 

lull,  Morgan 4634, 4637 

fohnston,  Eda,  {see  also  Fowler,  Eda  C.) 4657 

Sinzel,    Caren 4676 

auber,   Pauline 4670,  4671 

Lippold,    Earl 4666 

Macia,   Edith 4658, 4660 

Margolis,    Ben 4653-4657 

Marshall,  Daniel   G 4663-4668 

Mellon,  Adelaid  M 4666 

Mooney,    Tom 4635 

VIoore,  Sam 4669-4672,  4673,  4676,  4677 

\luelder 4638 

Vields,  Fi-ances  {see  also  Burke,  Frances;  Decker,  Frances) 4(>48 

Olseu,    Dorothy 4631 

Pitt,   Albert 4631 

Perry,  Pettis 4630,  4633,  4634 

Ravetch,  Irving 4671,4673-4677  (testimony) 

Redick,    Mike 4639 

Rein,   David 4647^651 


ii  INDEX 

Pai 

Saboliuski,  Abe 4638,  46c 

Schneiderman,  Bill : 46i 

Short,  Ilobin 4671,  401 

Sinclair,    Upton 46;" 

Sumner,  Merton  D 4623-4645  (testimonj 

Tenet,  Kay  (or  Tennent) 4638,4639,46- 

Theodore,   Theodore 46:: 

Vidaver,  Matthew    (Matt) 4(5; 

Whitney,   Anita 46): 

Williams,    Ruth 46r 

ORGANIZATIONS 

A.  F.  of  L - 461 

CIO 46: 

America  First  Committee 46-J 

American  Red  Cross 46; 

Americans  for  Democratic  Action 46." 

California  Institute  of  Technology 46c 

Columbia  Broadcasting  System 4669,  4671,  4674,  461 

Communist  Party,  Grand  Rapids 4637,  4638,  46. 

Communist  Party,  Grand  Rapids,  West  Side  Group 46? 

Communist  Party,  Hollywood  Radio  Club 46( 

Communist  Party,  Los  Angeles,  Calif.,  West  Adams  Branch 4658,  46( 

Communist  Party,  San  Diego,  Calif 4624,  4631,  46: 

Communist  Party,  San  Diego  Beach  Club 4631,  46; 

Communist  Party,  Vallejo,  Calif 461 

Communist  Political  Association 4650,  461 

Community  Book  Center,  San  Diego 46" 

Consolidated  Vultee  Aircraft  Corp 46; 

Distributing,  I'rocessing,  Office  Workers  of  America 46- 

Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation 461 

General   Motors 46' 

International  Book  Shop,  San  Diego 4til 

International  Rural  Order  of  the  IWO 46; 

International  Workers'  Order 4(k 

Los  Angeles  County  Department  of  Charities 4(;( 

Marine  Corps 4624,  4625,  4<1- 

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer 46: 

New  York  University 4(>( 

Pasadena  Community  Playhouse -t(>< 

Pine-Thomas , 46'i 

Pomona  Health  Center 46t 

Post  Office  Department 461 

Radio  Writers'  Guild 4671-4673,  46'. 

Santa  Barbara  News  Press 4t>. 

Screen  Writers'  Guild 4(;i 

Scripps  Institution  of  Oceanography 4ti; 

Social  Work  School 46( 

Timm  Aircraft 46t 

U.  S.  S.  Tuscaloosa 4625,  46-1 

Universal-Internati(>nal 4tiT 

University  of  California  at  Los  Angeles 4631,  467 

University  of  Southern  California 4iH; 

Utopians , 4im 

West  Virginia  University 466 

Western  Stove  Co . 4ti5 

Wittenberg  College,  Springfield,  Ohio 466 

Workers'  Alliance 462 

Works  Progress  Administration 466 

PUBLICATIONS 

Better  Homes  and  Gardens 464 

Daily  People's  World 4630,  463 

Daily  Worker 463: 

Home  Front  News 4631,  463: 

o 


u^vy 


^ 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA— Part  4 


HEARING 


BEFORE  THE 


]OMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIYES 


EIGHTY-THIRD  CONGRESS 

SECOND  SESSION 


APRIL  19,  1954 
(MORNING  SESSION) 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 


INCLUDING  INDEX 


UNITED  STATES 
GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 
47718  WASHINGTON  :   1954 


Boston  Public  Library 
Superintendent  of  Documents 

SEP  8- 1954 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN,ACTIVITIES 

United  States  House  of  Representatives 

HAROLD  H.  VELDE,  Illinois,  Chairman 
BERNARD  W.  KEARNEY,  New  York  FRANCIS  E.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania 

DONALD  L.  JACKSON,  California  MORGAN  M.  MOULDER,  Missouri 

KIT  CLARDY,  Michigan  CLYDE  DOYLE,  California 

GORDON  H.  SCHERER,  Ohio  JAMES  B.  FRAZIER,  JE.,  Tennessee 

Robert  L.  Kunzig,  Counsel 

Fbank  S.  Tavennek,  Jr.,  Counsel 

Thomas  W.  Beale,  Sr.,  Chief  Clerk 

Raphael  I.  Nixon,  Director  of  Research 

Courtney  E.  Owens,  Acting  Chief  Investigator 

n 


CONTENTS 


pril  19, 1954,  testimony  of—  P««» 

Daniel  Pomeroy  Taylor 4680 

Ddex i 

(Testimony  of  Sterling  Campbell  Alexander  and  Philip  Berman,  also 
heard  on  this  date,  is  printed  in  part  5  of  this  series.) 

m 


Public  Law  601,  79th  Congress 

The  legislation  under  which  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities  operates  is  Public  Law  601,  79th  Congress  [1946],  chapter 
753,  2d  session,  which  provides : 

Be  it  enacted  h^  the  Senate  and  House  of  Representatives  of  the  United  States 
of  America  in  Congress  assembled,  *  *  * 

PART  2— RULES  OF  THE  HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule  X 

SEC.    121.    STANDING    COMMITTEE 
4i  *****  * 

17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  members. 

RXJLE  XI 

POWERS    AND    DUTIES    OF    COMMITTEES 

^  ^  !|S  Sp  ^  flS  V 

(q)    ( 1 )   Commi ttee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(A)   Un-American  activities. 

(2)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommit- 
tee, is  authorized  to  malie  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (i)  the  extent, 
character,  and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States, 
(ii)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  Un-American  propa- 
ganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and  at- 
tacks the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitution, 
and  (iii)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  in  any 
necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  in- 
vestigation, together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such 
times  and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting, 
has  recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person 
designated  by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 


RULES  ADOPTED  BY  THE  83D  CONGRESS 
House  Resolution  5,  January  3,  1953 

*  *  4:  *  *  *  « 

Rule  X 

STANDING   COMMITTEES 

(1)  There  shall  be  elected  by  the  House,  at  the  commencement  of  each  Coi 
gress,  the  following  standing  committees  : 

8|»  ^  ^  >)C  ^  ^  !|C 

(q)   Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  members. 

*  *  ij:  4:  »  »  « 

Rule  XI 

POWER   AND   DUTIES   OF   COMMITTEES 
4:  «  H:  $  H:  *  4: 

17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(a)  Un-American  activities. 

(b)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee 
is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time,  investigations  of  (1)  the  extent,  cha 
acter,  and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  State 
(2)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  props 
ganda  that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  an 
attacks  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constiti 
tion,  and  (3)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congreji 
In  any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  tt: 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  invest 
gallon,  together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-America 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such  timt- 
and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting,  hai 
recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendant 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  an 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  unde 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  an 
member  designated  by  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person  desii 
nated  by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  CALIFOENIA— Part  4 


MONDAY,  APRIL   19,   1954 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

San  Diego^  Calif. 
public  hearing 

The  Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 
met,  pursuant  to  notice,  at  9 :  05  a.  m.,  in  the  Chamber  of  Commerce 
Building,  Hon.  Donald  L.  Jackson  (acting  chairman)  presiding. 

Committee  members  present:  Representatives  Donald  L.  Jackson 
and  Clyde  Doyle. 

Staff  members  present:  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel;  William 
A.  Wheeler,  staff  investigator ;  and  Mrs.  Billie  Wheeler,  acting  for  the 
clerk. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Under  the  authority  conferred  upon  the  chairman  of 
the  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  and  pursuant  to  the 
rules  of  the  House  of  Representatives  and  of  the  committee,  the 
Honorable  Harold  H.  Velde  has  appointed  a  subcommittee  of  two 
members  to  take  the  testimony  of  witnesses  in  the  current  hearings 
which  will  continue  through  Thursday  noon. 

Out  of  hearings  heretofore  conducted  in  other  sections  of  the  coun- 
try there  has  developed  information  which  indicates  that  a  significant 
effort  was  made  by  the  Communist  Party  to  organize  its  activities  in 
this  general  area.  San  Diego  is  not  only  important  from  the  stand- 
point of  a  concentrated  defense  production  but  also  as  an  important 
link  in  international  communications.  Any  successful  effort  on  the 
part  of  the  Communist  Party  to  infiltrate  its  agents  into  these  impor- 
tant activities  would  present  an  apparent  danger  to  the  security  of  our 
country. 

Under  the  rules  of  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activi- 
ties, television  is  permitted  as  a  public  service  and  in  order  that  as 
many  citizens  as  possible  may  be  kept  full}^  advised  of  the  important 
worlv  being  done  by  the  committee.  All  public  media  of  information 
will  get  the  fullest  possible  opportunity  to  transmit  to  the  American 
people  the  testimony  developed  in  these  hearings  and  relating  to  the 
subject  of  the  investigation.  It  is  anticipated  that  some  witnesses 
may  object  to  the  presence  here  in  the  room  of  television  and  radio 
facilities.  Under  the  rules  of  the  committee  such  witnesses  may  not 
be  photographed  during  the  course  of  their  testimony.  However,  the 
Chair  wishes  to  make  it  clear  that  any  interruption  of  public-service 
broadcasts  will  come  as  a  result  of  the  demand  by  witnesses  and  will 

4679 


4680        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

not  constitute  an  interference  by  the  committee  of  legitimate  means 
of  public  information. 

The  chairman  wishes  to  caution  the  audience  in  the  hearing  room 
against  any  demonstration  of  approval  or  disapproval  respecting  the 
testimony  of  witnesses.  The  committee  is  here  upon  the  business  oi 
the  Congress  and  decorum  and  dignity  will  be  maintained  during  the 
course  of  the  hearings.  Any  demonstration  will  result  in  clearing  oi 
the  room.  The  Chair  hopes  that  this  step  will  not  be  necessary,  but 
wishes  to  make  it  clear  that  there  will  be  no  hesitancy  in  so  domg  in 
the  event  of  audible  expressions  of  approval  or  disapproval. 

The  committee  appreciates  the  courtesy  extended  by  the  San  Diegc 
Chamber  of  Commerce  in  making  this  hearing  room  available. 

Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to  proceed  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Who  is  your  first  witness  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  My  first  witness  is  Mr.  Daniel  Pomeroy  Taylor. 
Mr.  Taylor,  will  you  come  forward,  please  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Taylor,  will  you  raise  your  right  hand,  pleased 

In  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee,  dc 
you  solemnly  swear  that  you  will  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth  and 
nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  do. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Be  seated,  please. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  us  your  name,  please  ? 

TESTIMONY  OF  DANIEL  POMEROY  TAYLOR 

Mr.  Taylor.  Daniel  Pomeroy  Taylor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  the  practice  of  the  committee  to  explain  t( 
every  witness  that  he  has  the  privilege  of  having  counsel  with  him 
It  is  noted  that  you  do  not  have  counsel  with  you,  so  I  want  to  make  i- 
plain  that  you  have  that  right  at  any  time  during  the  hearing  that  yoi 
may  desire. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  waive  counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Taylor  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  Oak  Park,  111. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  date  of  your  birth  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  November  20,  1913. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  For  the  past  121/2  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Prior  to  that  time  where  did  you  live  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  briefly,  what 
your  education  and  training  has  been  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  graduated  from  San  Diego  High  School  in  1931. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  the  nature  of  your  employment 
since  1935  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  on  the  Federal  writers'  project  for  3  years  and 
then  in  the  city  school  system. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  give  us  the  date,  the  approximate  years  in 
which  you  were  working  with  the  Federal  writers'  project? 


COMMUlSriST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4681 

Mr.  Taylor.  1936  to  1939,  inclusive. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  then  what  was  your  employment  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Following  that  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  worked  as  public-relations  counsel  for  the  evening 
adult  education  department  of  the  San  Diego  school  system. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  for  how  long  a  period  of  time  were  you  so 
employed  ? 

IVIr.  Taylor.  Six  or  seven  months. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  your  next  employment  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  went  to  Los  Angeles  in  May,  1941,  and  was  employed 
by  Vimcar  Steel  Co. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Taylor,  are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Taylor,  No;  I  am  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  approximate 
date  that  you  became  a  member  and  the  approximate  time  that  you 
withdrew  from  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  joined  the  Communist  Party  in  August  1935  and  left 
in  November  1941. 

Mr.  Taa-enner.  According  to  your  record  of  employment,  most  of 
that  period  of  time  you  were  in  the  San  Diego  area,  were  you  not? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Ta\^nner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  circum- 
stances under  which  you  became  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  is  a  rather  long  story.  Do  you  mind  if  it  takes  a 
few  minutes? 

Mr.  Ta\tsnner.  Well,  just  take  enough  time  that  in  your  judgment 
would  give  the  committee  a  pretty  accurate  idea  of  what  led  you  into 
the  Communist  Party  and  what  motivated  you  in  going  into  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  TayTvOR.  To  begin  with,  my  cousin  is  Anna  Louise  Strong  who 
was  editor  of  the  English  edition  of  the  Moscow  News,  in  Moscow, 
Russia,  and  she  is  also  the  author  of  many  books  about  Russia,  and  in 
my  teens  I  naturally  read  those  books,  and  although  my  family  did 
not  think  well  of  her,  I  was  somewhat  influenced  by  her  books  and 
tier  writings.  I  also  aspired  to  write,  and  I  worked  for  my  school 
papers  at  Memorial  Junior  High  School,  where  I  was  the  editor  of 
the  paper,  and  I  was  a  reporter  for  the  school  paper  in  the  San  Diego 
High  School. 

Then  in  February  1935,  an  article  which  I  wrote  was  published 
m  the  New  Republic,  a  magazine  which  I  had  been  a  reader  of  for 
many  years,  and  a  Communist  acquaintance  that  used  to  spend  a  great 
ieal  of  time  at  the  San  Diego  Public  Library,  where  I  met  him,  when 
le  discovered  that  I  had  had  an  article  published  in  a  national  maga- 
dne,  he  notified  the  Communist  Party  leadership  in  San  Diego  and 
:old  them  he  thought  I  was  worth  concentrating  upon  in  the  hopes  of 
recruiting  me. 

About  2  weeks  after  the  article  was  published  in  the  magazine  a 
jarload  of  Communists  visited  my  home,  all  smiles,  and  endeavored 

47718—54 — pt.  4 2 


4682        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

to  win  my  friendship.  They  congratulated  me  on  my  article  and  they 
invited  me  to  a  house  social  that  evening,  and  at  that  house  social  I 
met  Stanley  Hancock  who  was  the  head  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
San  Diego,  and  he  also 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Let  me  interrupt  you  at  that  point.  Mr.  Chair- 
man, reference  was  made  to  Stanley  Hancock.  I  should  refresh 
your  recollection  that  his  testimony  was  taken  in  Washington  within 
the  past  30  days.  He  told  the  committee  his  connection  with  the 
Communist  Party  and  when  he  withdrew  from  the  Communist  Party, 
and  he  has  cooperated  fully  with  the  committee.^ 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes;  the  subcommittee  heard  the  testimony  of  Mr. 
Hancock  and  it  should  show  in  the  record  that  his  testimony  was  very 
complete  and  that  it  added  a  great  deal  to  the  sum  total  of  knowledge 
possessed  by  the  committee  on  the  activities  of  the  Communist  Party 
in  the  San  Diego  area. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Ta\'enner.  If  you  will  continue,  please. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Hancock  asked  me  was  I  regularly  employed  and  I 
said  right  then  I  was  not  employed.  That  is,  that  I  was  spending  my 
time  writing  and  sending  articles  and  stories  to  the  national  maga- 
zines, and  he  said  that  he  believed  that  he  could  find  me  a  job  writing, 
working  for  the  San  Diego  city  schools,  and  I  was  somewhat  surprised, 
as  he  was  introduced  to  me  as  a  Communist,  although  when  the  people 
visited  my  home  that  day  I  didn't  know  they  were  Communists;  I 
thought  they  were  just  readers  of  the  magazine. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  later  find  them  to  be  Communists? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  within  a  few  weeks.  I  didn't  know  it  that  night. 
I  thought  Stanley  Hancock  was  the  only  Communist  at  that  house 
social. 

But  within  a  few  days  Stanley  Hancock  obtained  a  job  for  me 
writing  for  the  San  Diego  city  schools'  curriculum  project.  It  was 
some  kind  of  a  make-work  project  during  the  depression  to  write 
books  for  the  schoolchildren  of  San  Diego,  and  that  summer  of  1935 
I  wrote  a  book  for  the  San  Diego  city  schools  entitled  "Ebbtide 
Friends." 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  was  that? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Ebbtide  Friends,  which  was  used  in  the  San  Diego 
schools  for  the  fifth-grade  children. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  interrupt  you  at  this  moment.  Do  you 
know  how  it  was  that  Hancock  had  influence  enough  to  obtain  this 
position  for  you  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Communist  Party  had  a  great  deal  of  influence 
in  the  State  relief  administration  and  it  was  through  those  channels 
that  he  was  able  to  obtain  jobs  for  people  whom  he  wished  to  enmesh 
in  his  organization. 

Mr.  Ta\tenner.  All  right.  If  you  will  proceed  now  with  what 
occurred. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Counsel,  I  would  like  to  interpose  a  question. 

Do  you  know  who  Mr.  Hancock  contacted  relative  to  your  employ- 
ment on  this  writing  project? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No  ;  I  have  no  idea  as  to  that. 


*  See  pt.  2  of  this  title,  pp.  4S64-4692. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4683 

Within  a  few  weeks  after  I  began  working  for  this  city  schools' 
?iirriciihim  job,  Stanley  Hancock  asked  me  to  join  the  Communist 
Party,  and  I  told  him  I  didn't  care  to,  and  I  wasn't  interested  in 
oining,  and  he  said,  "Well,  we  will  talk  it  over  at  some  later  date," 
3ut  at  least  twice  a  week  I  was  pressured  with  a  membership  card 
md  asked  to  join — they  had  me  organize  a  gi'oup  called  the  Unem- 
ployed Council,  of  which  I  was  the  president,  and  I  felt  that  maybe 
f  i  did  some  activity  such  as  that  for  them  that  they  wouldn't  keep 
iisisting  that  I  join  the  Communist  Party. 

Finally  extreme  pressure  was  put  on,  several  months  passed,  and 

was  practically  told  if  I  didn't  join  the  Communist  Party  that  they 
Aould  consider  me  hostile,  and  that  a  hostile  person  would  certainly 
xiy  a  penalty  of  some  kind.  It  was  more  or  less  of  a  threat,  higli- 
)iessure  tactics.  ^   _  ^ 

I  didn't  join  immediately  when  he  said  that,  but  I  joined  about  that 
iine,  and  that  was  about  1935.  I  joined  soon  after  the  heat  was 
nd  on,  you  might  say. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  names  of  the  group 
^vbo  called  upon  you  and  whom  you  later  found  to  be  members  of  the 

onnnunist  Party,  at  the  time  you  published  your  successful  article 
n  the  New  Republic?  I  want  you  to  give  names  only  of  those  you 
ater  found  to  be  members  of  the  Communist  Party  from  your  own 
mowledge. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  wish  to  state  at  that  point  I  am  glad 
:hat  counsel  has  called  the  attention  of  the  witness  to  the  fact  that  we 
Dnly  want  any  witness,  either  this  or  any  other  witness,  to  give  in 
Dublic  the  names  of  people  whom  he  positively  can  identify  as  Com- 
nunists.  We  don't  want  hearsay  or  rumor  or  anything  less  than 
jositive  identification.  I  am  sure  that  my  distinguished  chairman 
igrees  with  that. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  These  Communists  who  visited  me  and  first  brought 
ne  into  contact  with  the  Communist  Party  were  Bessie  A.  Keckler 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  last  name,  please  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  K-e-c-k-1-e-r.     James  Toback. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  it  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  T-o-b-a-c-k.  I  can't  remember  who  the  other  2  or  3 
vere. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  if  I  understand  your  testimony  correctly,  you 
►ecame  an  organizer  of  the  Unemployed  Council  in  San  Diego  and 
)ecame  its  first  president  prior  to  your  joining  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  positions  did  you  later  hold  in  the  Communist 
^arty? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  the  continuous  educational  director  of  the  Com- 
aunist  Party  for  4  years.  I  was  continuous  chairman  of  the  Com- 
Qunist  Party  here  for  a  little  over  a  year,  and  continuous  organizer 
•f  tlie  Communist  Party  in  San  Diego  for  approximately  1  year. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  group  or 
ell  of  the  Communist  Party  to  which  you  were  first  assigned  upon 
»ecoming  a  member  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  August  of  1935  I  was  assigned  to  a  small  neighbor- 
Lood  unit  of  the  Communist  Party,  possibly  7  or  8  members. 


1 


il 


4684       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  it  have  a  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylob.  It  probably  had  a  number,  but  I  don't  remember. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  in  that  group  ? 

Mr.  Tatlor.  It  might  have  had  a  name.  It  met  in  Logan  Heights 
and  it  might  have  been  called  the  Logan  Heights  unit.  I  believe  i\ 
was  so  called  sometimes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  of  that  par 
ticular  unit  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Until  the  spring  of  1936. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  that  period  of  time  from  August  1935  unti 
the  spring  of  1936,  what  was  your  chief  activity  in  the  Communis 
Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  assigned  to  work  as  assistant  editor  of  the  Trad( 
Union  News,  a  weekly  labor  paper  put  out  by  Stanley  Hancock,  an( 
was  assigned  to  continue  my  official  capacity  in  the  Unemployed  Coun| 
cil,  and  for  a  while  I  was  assigned  to  youth  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  take  those  matters  up  in  the  order — excu& 
me.    Possibly  you  were  going  to  mention  something  else. 

Mr.  Taylor.  No  ;  I  cannot  think  of  anything  else. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Let  me  ask  you  about  your  work  in  the  Unemployec 
Council.  Were  there  other  members  of  the  Communist  Party  locate( 
within  that  organization  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  there  were  quite  a  few. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  would  you  judge  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Possibly  25  or  30  altogether  in  the  county.  Maybe  4C 
I  really  don't  know  how  many  in  the  entire  county  because  there  wer 
locals  of  this  Unemployed  Council  throughout  the  county. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  the  Communist  Party  particularly  intereste' 
in  the  work  of  the  Unemployed  Council  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  it  was  a  main  front  activity  during  the  depressior 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  wish  you  would  tell  the  committee,  please,  ho^ 
the  Communist  Party  functioned  in  connection  with  the  work  of  it 
members  in  the  Unemployed  Council.  By  that  I  mean  tell  the  com 
mittee  what  the  Communist  Party  sought  to  accomplish  and  how  i 
proceeded  to  act  within  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Communist  Party  controlled  the  Unemployei 
Councils  by  having  their  Communist  Party  members  in  positions  o 
leadership  in  nearly  all  the  cases,  and  these  members,  these  Communist 
were  required  to  appear  before  the  leadership  of  the  Communist  Part; 
once  a  week  or  once  every  other  week,  and  sometimes  they  were  give: 
orders  as  to  the  activities  that  Unemployed  Councils  were  to  engage  ir 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  general  nature  c 
those  directives  or  instructions,  generally. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  those  were  days  of  strife.  The  Unemploye<|ii 
Councils  held  mass  demonstrations,  mass  protests,  picket  lines;  the; 
would  picket  relief  headquarters ;  they  would  picket  the  city  hall  ant 
board  of  supervisors'  meetings,  or  would  crowd  them  with  member 
so  that  every  seat  was  taken  in  order  to  endeavor  to  get  those  bodie 
to  go  along  with  policies  which  the  Communist  Party  was  endorsing 
Also  the  Unemployed  Council  had  people  stationed  at  all  the  relie 
headquarters  so  if  a  person,  say,  who  was  not  a  resident  of  San  Dieg| 
failed  to  get  a  food  order  or  grocery  order,  as  it  was  called,  the  Un 
employed  Council  people  would  take  the  person  back  upstairs  an< 
intimidate  the  social  service  workers  into  writing  out  grocery  orders 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4685 

This  high-pressure  type  of  thing  made  friends  for  the  Unemployed 
Councils  and  those  members  who  told  the  recipient  that  they  were 
Communists,  which  they  often  did,  and  they  would  say,  "I  am  a  Com- 
Qunist,  and  see  what  Communist  tactics  can  do  for  you,"  and  the 
ocial-service  workers  were  usually  scared  to  death. 

Mr.  Jackson.  This  organized  intimidation  constituted  authority 
rhich  in  fact  was  directed  and  dictated  by  the  Communist  Party  ? 
]VIr.  Taylor.  It  was. 

]\Ir.  Ta\tenner.  You  stated  that  the  Communist  Party  members  took 
'eo])le  upstairs  who  had  been  denied  grocery  orders.  I  don't  under- 
taiid  just  what  you  mean  by  taking  them  upstairs.  Did  you  have  an 
ilice  or  a  place  of  business  in  the  same  building? 
Mr.  Taylor.  No.  I  should  have  said  that  the  county  welfare  office 
t  that  time  was  in  the  Spreckels  Building  on  the  second  and  third 
oors.  When  I  said  the  Communists  took  them  upstairs,  they  waited 
n  the  ground  floor  and  questioned  everybody  who  came  down  from 
le  relief  office,  and  if  a  person  was  not  a  resident,  they  could  not 
btain  a  grocery  order,  if  they  were  transient.  In  many  cases  there 
as  always  a  delay  because  the  social-service  workers  wanted  to  in- 
estigate  the  person  to  see  if  they  lived  at  the  address  which  they 
ved  at,  and  this  constituted  a  delay  for  2  or  3  days  before  the  person 
iceived  the  grocery  order.  The  Communist  would  take  the  unem- 
loyed  person  upstairs  to  the  relief  workers  and  demand  a  grocery 
rder,  and  generally  those  tactics  would  get  it. 

]\rr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  of  any  instances  in  which  the  Com- 
unist  Party  took  just  the  reverse  attitude  and  interested  themselves 
I  denying  relief  to  any  particular  class  of  individuals  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  In  cases  of  people  who  turned  against  the  Communist 
arty,  members,  I  should  say,  who  differed  with  the  Communist  Party, 
le  Communist  Party  would  retaliate  by  endeavoring  to  have  these 
jople  thrown  off  of  their  job,  fired,  or  thrown  off  the  relief  rolls,  if 
ley  were  on  the  relief  rolls.  When  such  methods  of  intimidation  were 
lown  to  the  other  members,  that  kept  such  members  from  dropping 
it  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  mean  the  Communist  Party  leadership  would 
'?liberately  deprive  San  Diego  citizens  of  necessary  food  because 
ley  opposed  the  Communist  Party  in  San  Diego? 
Mr.  Taylor.  I  knew  of  people  who  had  lived  for  many  years  in 
iin  Diego  who  were  forced  to  leave  town  and  take  up  residence  some- 
hore  else  simply  because  the  Communist  Party  was  making  it  so 
'ffirult  for  them  to  make  a  livelihood. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Then  it  could  be  stated  that  the  Communist  Party 
:  torest  in  a  welfare  case  was  political  rather  than  economic,  is  that  a 
:  ir  statement  of  fact ;  they  were  not  interested  in  the  economics  of  the 
latter  at  all,  but  very  much  interested  in  the  politics  of  the  indi- 
vhial  concerned. 

Mr.  Taylor.  They  were  solely  interested  in  themselves,  the  Com- 
aunists  were,  solely  interested  in  their  own  organization. 
INIr.  Doyle.  In  other  words,  Mr.  Chairman,  they  were  willing  to  let 
]  tip  children  and  babies  go  hungry  merely  because  their  parents  op- 
]iRed  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Taylor.  If  that  person  had  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
lirty.     As  a  rule  they  wouldn^t  take  this  action  against  an  average 


4686        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

person  who  happened  to  be  against  the  Communists,  but  upon  then 
own  dissidents. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  understand  that,  but  in  other  words,  if  a  former  mem- 
ber withdrew  from  the  party  or  refused  to  cooperate,  then  they  weni 
to  the  extent  of  intimidating  social  welfare  and  social  workers  to  th( 
point  that  they  would  deny  these  former  Communist  Party  members 
food,  even  though  there  might  be  small  children  and  babies  in  thos< 
families  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  As  a  matter  of  punishment  and  retribution? 

Mr.  Taylor.  And  in  order  to  prevent  other  people  from  dropping 
out  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Proceed,  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  been  accustomed  to  hear  dissi 
dents  within  the  Communist  Party  spoken  of  as  Trotskyites.  Is  tha 
in  a  general  way  what  you  are  speaking  of  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  but  in  those  early  depression  days  there  was  U' 
actual  Trotskyite  organization  as  such.  There  were  a  few,  mayb 
one  or  two  Trotskyites  in  those  days,  but  they  didn't  have  really  ai 
organization. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliy  was  it  the  Communist  Party  was  intereste" 
in  the  work  of  the  Unemployed  Council  in  the  manner  in  which  yo 
have  described ;  what  did  they  seek  to  accomplish  by  that  activity  ? 

Mr.  Taylor,  Well,  their  purposes  were  twofold.  They  wanted  t 
build  an  organization  of  unemployed  people,  WPA  people  and  reliei 
ites  that  could  carry  out  the  policies  of  the  Communist  Party,  an( 
secondly,  they  used  this  organization  as  a  field  for  recruiting  into  th 
Communist  Party,  and  as  a  method  of  spreading  Communist  infoi 
mation  among  a  larger  group  of  people  than  if  there  were  no  sue 
Unemployed  Council. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  how  the  decisio 
was  reached  to  take  a  given  line  of  conduct  in  the  Unemploye, 
Council  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  decision  was  invariably  reached  by  the  Communi 
Party  leadership.  The  Unemployed  Council  leaders  took  no  action  ( 
any  importance  on  their  own.  They  took  all  of  their  orders,  and  a( 
vice  from  the  Communist  Party  leadership  of  San  Diego,  and,  ( 
course,  that  was  true  in  other  cities. 

Mr.  TwENNER.  How  long  did  you  remain  in  the  work  of  the  JJi  J 
employed  Council  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Until  approximately  February  1936.  , 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Well,  did  you  during  that  period  of  time  becon  ^ 
active  in  any  other  enterprise  of  the  Unemployed  Council ;  did  it,  f^ 
instance,  publish  any  circulars  or  paper  of  its  own  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Oh,  yes.     I  was  editor  of  a  biweekly  newspaper  e  i 
titled  the  "Unemployed  News"  in  1935. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  You  told  us  also  that  you  were  assisting  Mr,  Ha: 
cock  as  associate  editor  of  the  Trade  Union  News.  Was  that  durir 
this  same  period  ? 

Mr,  Taylor.  That  was  the  same  period,  1935, 
Mr,  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  the  natu 
of  this  publication  known  as  the  Trade  Union  News  was  ? 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4687 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Trade  Union  News  was  an  8-  or  10-page  paper 
which  was  mailed  to  several  thousand  A.  F.  of  L.  members  in  San 
Diego  City,  and  the  material  in  the  paper  was  given  by  Communist 
Party  members  who  were  active  in  the  A.  F.  of  L.  There  was  a 
Communist  in  nearly  every  union  in  San  Diego,  and  these  people  at- 
tended meetings  and  gave  to  the  Communist  Party  the  results  of  those 
meetings,  the  action  taken,  and  also  meetings  of  the  San  Diego  County 
Federated  Trades  and  Labor  Council,  it  was  this  information  which 
Stanley  Hancock  and  I  wrote  down  and  put  in  the  weekly  newspaper, 
the  Trade  Union  News,  and  mailed  it  to  several  thousand  A.  F.  of  L. 
members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  was  the  publication  financed  ? 

]\Ir.  Taylor.  It  was  financed  by  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  this  period  of  time,  what  percentage  of 
your  time  was  devoted  to  the  work  of  the  Communist  Party  through 
active  participation  in  the  party  and  through  active  participation  as 
a  member  of  a  front  organization  of  the  party,  namely,  the  Unem- 
ployed Council? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  should  say  it  entailed  3  or  4  hours  every  day,  an 
average  of  30  or  40  hours  a  week. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend  meetings  of  the  Communist  Party 
frequently  at  night? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Every  member  is  required  to  attend  a  weekly  meeting 
of  the  Communist  Party  and  he  is  also  required  to  attend  his  union 
or  front  meeting  once  a  week  or  oftener,  and  is  expected  to  take  a 

gart  in  the  leadership  meetings  of  his  front  organization  or  union, 
[e  is  expected  to  push  himself  into  leadership. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  us  at  this  time,  please,  what  organ- 
izational setup  of  the  Communist  Party  was  here  in  San  Diego  during 
tlie  early  period  of  your  membership? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  organizational  setup  of  the  Communist  Party  at 
San  Diego? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Its  leadership,  well,  first,  it  was  composed  of  15  or  16 
units  which  had  approximately  a  dozen  or  more  members.  Then  there 
was  a  county  executive  committee  which  represented  the  leadership 
of  the  San  Diego  Communist  Party  and  once  every  2  months  a  meeting 
was  held  of  the  common  committee,  an  organization  of  approximately 
40  or  50  Communists  in  San  Diego  who  represented  the  leadership  of 
the  Communist  Party  units. 

I\Ir.  Tavenner.  Now,  the  first  unit  that  you  became  a  member  of 
was  a  group  of  7  or  8,  I  understood  you  to  say,  and  you  think  it  was 
called  the  Logan  Heights  gi^oup  or  unit  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

jNIr.  Ta-s^nner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  who  was  the 
leader  of  that  group  when  you  first  became  a  member  of  it? 

Mr.  Taylor.  James  Toback. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  James  Toback? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  names  of  other  members  of  that 
group,  and  in  giving  us  that  information  I  would  like  for  you  to 
identify  them  as  well  as  you  can  by  their  occupation,  if  you  know 
what  that  was,  and  tell  the  committee  anything  you  can  recall  about 
their  activities  within  the  group. 


4688       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Taylor.  James  Toback  was  the  unit  organizer  of  the  first  unit 
of  the  Communist  Party  which  I  was  in.  He  was  unemployed  at 
that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  part  did  Toback  play,  if  any,  in  recruiting 
you  into  the  party  ?    I  am  not  certain  that  I  have  asked  you  that. 

Mr.  Taylor.  James  Toback  was  one  of  those  who  recruited  me,  a 
cosigner  for  me.  Every  recruit  is  supposed  to  have  two  people  vouch 
for  him  or  cosign  for  him. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  Toback  was  one? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlio  was  the  other? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Leo  Gregovich. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  last  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  G-r-e-g-o-v-i-c-h. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right.    If  you  will  proceed. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Leo  Gregovich  was  a  cook;  I  don't  remember  where 
he  worked.  He  was  an  officer  in  the  Cooks  &  Waitresses'  Union  in  San 
Diego,  and  he  was  a  member  of  the  county  leadership  of  San  Diego. 
Those  are  the  only  two  I  can  think  of  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  transferred  later  to  a  different  group  oi 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  In  the  spring  of  1936 1  went  into  a  different  unit 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  purpose  or  the  reason  for  transfer- 
ring you  to  another  group. 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  second  group  which  I  was  sent  into  was  more 
representative  of  the  people  whom  I  was  working  with  in  from 
organizations. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  this  group  have  a  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  possibly  had  a  number,  but  I  do  not  remember  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Approximately  how  many  persons  comprised  this 
second  group  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  would  say  13  or  14. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  the  leader  of  the  group  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  They  often  changed  their  unit  organizers,  sometimes 
every  few  months,  and  I  can't  remember  any  particular  one  wh( 
seemed  to  be  the  outstanding  organizer.  j 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  us  the  names  of  those  who  wer( 
members  of  this  group,  as  far  as  you  can  recall,  and  again  give  us 
only  the  names  of  those  that  you  are  positive  in  your  own  mind  wen 
members  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  any  other  identifying  inf orma 
tion  that  you  can  give  us. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  there  was  Mr.  and  Mrs.  Bert  Jones  and  Mr.  anc 
Mrs.  Newsome,  N-e-w-s-o-m-e. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  Mr.  Newsome's  first  name? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Cosby,  C-o-s-b-y. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  do  you  recall  his  wife's  first  name? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Geneva.  Then  there  was  Mr.  and  Mrs.  Carroll 
Hunnewell. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  that  last  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylor,  H-u-n-n-e-w-e-1-1.  James  Toback  was  also  a  member. 
I  think  that  is  all  I  can  remember. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  stated  that  Mr.  Bert  Jones  and  his  wife  were 
members.    Do  you  recall  the  wife's  name? 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4689 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  don't  recall  right  now.  I  don't  quite  recall  her  name. 
Oil,  Martha  Jones. 

Mr.  Ta^^nner.  Now,  will  you  tell  the  committee  as  nearly  as  you 
what  the  activities  of  this  group  were? 

Mr.  Taylor.  This  group  was  interested  in  unemployed  activity 
mainly,  and  to  some  extent  in  boring  into  the  American  Federation 
of  Labor.     It  had  a  twofold  job. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How^  long  were  you  a  member  of  this  group  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Throughout  the  year  1937.    1936,  rather. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  particrpate  during  the  period  you  were  a 
member  of  this  group  in  any  effort  to  bore  within  labor,  as  you 
mentioned  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  James  Toback  and  I  were  assigned  to  work  in  the 
retail  clerks  union,  A.  F.  of  L. 

Mr.  Ta\\enner.  Well,  were  you  a  clerk? 

Mr.  Tayi.or.  No,  nor  was  Toback. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  could  you  become  a  member  of  the  clerks' 
inion  if  you  were  not  employed  as  a  clerk? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Communist  Party  found  a  sympathetic  merchant 
vv^ho  agreed  to  tell  the  union  if  they  phoned  him  that  I  was  a  clerk  for 
lim. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  were  not  a  clerk  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlio  was  that  merchant  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  can't  remember  his  name  right  now. 

Mr.  Ta\t<:nner.  What  was  the  nature  of  his  business  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  he  had  an  upholstering  and  furniture  store  at 
52d  and  University  in  San  Diego.    The  20th  Century  Upholsterer, 

believe. 

Mr.  Ta^^nner.  Did  you  at  any  time  talk  to  him  about  this  plan, 
id  he  ever  mention  to  you,  that  is,  the  proprietor  of  this  mercantile 
)usiness,  that  you  were  supposed  to  be  employed  as  a  clerk  in  his 
tore  to  be  entitled  to  membership  while  actually  you  were  not  so 
mployed  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  saw  him  a  few  months  later  and  he  told  me  he  had 
leen  getting  quite  a  number  of  phone  calls  and  people  dropping  in 
rom  the  AFL  to  check  me,  whether  I  was  a  clerk  there,  and  he  said 
t  was  kind  of  interesting.  He  always  told  them  I  was  out  on  sales- 
fianship  business. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  it  was  by  this  method  that  the  Communist 
*arty  got  you  into  the  clerks  union  ^ 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  other  persons  gotten  into  the  clerks  union  by  a 
imilar  method  who  were  not  actuallv  employed  as  clerks? 

Mr.  Taylor.  At  least  10  or  11  others. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  tlie  committee,  please,  the  names  of 
le  Communist  Party  members  who  were  not  clerks  but  who  were 
iccessful  in  infiltrating  the  union  although  not  employed  in  a  manner 
lat  would  entitle  them  to  become  members? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  can  only  think  of  2,  Mrs.  Esco  Richardson  and  Paul 

lexander. 

47718— 54— pt.  4 3 


4690        COMMUlSriST  activities  in  the  state  of  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Paul  Alexander? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  Pavil  Alexander  used  any 
other  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  his  initials  are  S.  C.  Alexander. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  that  is  Sterling  C.  or  Sterling ' 
Campbell  Alexander  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  believe  he  told  me  that  at  one  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  he  was  commonly  known  in  this  vicinity  as 
Paul  Alexander? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long-  had  you  known  Paul  Alexander  before 
lie  became  a  member  of  the  clerks  union? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  had  known  Paul  Alexander  since  March  1935. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Had  you  known  him  as  a  Coinmimist  Part}-  member 
during  that  period  of  time  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  told  us  that  Paul  Alexander  and  Mrs. 
Esco  Richardson — do  you  remember  what  her  first  name  was? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Jen,  Jen  Eichardson. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  possibly  9  or  10  others 

Mr.  Taylor.  Eiglit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Eight,  did  you  say  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  About  eight  others. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  About  eight  others  became  members  of  the  clerks 
union.  Who  gave  you  directions  to  become  a  member  of  the  clerks 
union  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  directives  came  from  the  county  executive  com- 
mittee of  the  Communist  Party  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  may  be  well  for  you  to  give  us  at  this  time,  il 
you  can  recall,  the  names  of  the  members  of  the  executive  county  com- 
mittee. 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  county  organizer  of  the  Communist  Party  was 
Stanley  Hancock;  the  county  chairman,  Paul  Alexander;  the  count} 
trade  union  director  was  Leo  Gregovich;  the  county  unemploymeni 
director  was  Mrs.  Keckler;  the  county  control  officer  was  James 
Toback.     I  believe  that  is  all  I  can  recall. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  this  executive  committee  gave  you  directions 
to  become  a  member  of  the  clerks  union  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  did  the  executive  committee  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  seek  to  accomplish  within  the  clerks  union  ?  I 

Mr.  Taylor.  They  sought  to  control  it.  At  that  time  they  were  try- 
ing to  capture  the  American  Federation  of  Labor;  they  were  tryins 
to  capture  the  San  Diego  Federated  Trades  and  Labor  Council,  wliicl 
was  the  leading  body  of  the  A.  F.  of  L.  in  San  Diego.  In  every  unioi 
where  the  Communist  Party  sent  members,  they  endeavored  to  gel 
Communist  Party  leaders  as  heads  of  that  body,  the  Federated  Trades 
and  Labor  Council,  in  order  to  get  leadership  of  that  body  and  control, 
which  they  almost  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  in  order  to  do  that,  they  desired  to  infiltratf 
the  unions  from  the  lowest  level  and  build  from  the  ground  up,  is  tlml 
what,  in  substance,  you  are  saying? 

Mr.  Tayi.or.  That  is  correct. 


CO:vnvIUNIST  activities  in  the  state  of  CALIFORNIA       4691 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  what  your  group  of  the 
Communist  Party  did  after  obtaining  membership  in  the  clerks  union; 
how  did  you  impose  the  Communist  Party  will  or  decisions  upon  the 
group  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Every  week  the  Communist  members  of  a  trade  union 
met  in  what  they  called  a  fraction  meeting  in  which  they  discussed  the 
aims  and  policies,  plans,  strategy,  tactics,  w^hich  the  Communists  were 
going  to  carry  out  at  the  next  union  meeting,  or  the  next  meeting  of 
its  board  of  officers,  so  they  could  work  as  a  unit,  working  in  unison, 
and  put  their  policies  through. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Of  course,  the  Comnumist  Party  membership  of 
this  group  was  unknown  to  the  rank  and  file  membership  of  the  union  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

yh\  Jacksox.  Mr.  Counsel,  at  that  point,  was  that  also  true  of  the 
Trade  Union  Xews,  which  I  recall  from  your  previous  testimony,  was 
financed  by  the  Communist  Party;  did  those  who  subscribed  or  re- 
ceived the  Trade  Union  News  have  any  knowledge  that  the  Communist 
Party  was  in  fact  dictating  editorial  policy  and  also  contributing 
largely  to  its  support  ? 

Mr.  Taylor,  Oh,  yes.  The  American  Federation  of  Labor  in  San 
Diego  had  their  own  newspaper  called  the  Labor  Leader,  and  it  exposed 
constantly  this  Communist  paper  and  told  its  members  that  it  was  put 
out  by  the  Connuunist  Party. 

Mr.  Jackson.  So  those  who  received  the  Trade  Union  News  were 
pretty  well  aware  of  the  fact  that  it  was  Communist  dominated? 
Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  May  I  ask  a  question  on  that  point,  Mr.  Chairman  ? 
Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Doyle.  From  what  source  did  you  build  up  a  circulation  of  8 
to  10  thousand  copies,  as  you  said  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Two  thousand. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Oh,  2,000.  May  I  go  back  and  ask  these  2  or  3  ques- 
tions about  these  8  or  10  fraudulent  clerks  ?  As  I  understand,  there 
were  8  or  10  of  these,  you  included,  that  were  on  the  employed  list  of 
this  merchant  out  on  o2d.     Were  they  all  on  that  list  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  I  don't  think  so.     I  think  I  was  the  only  one. 
Mr.  Doyle.  Were  you  on  his  payroll,  actually  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  I  don't  think  so. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  ever  receive  any  checks  from  him  for  any 
purpose  ''i 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  ever  go  in  there  and  turn  in  any  orders  to  him 
as  a  result  of  your  solicitation  of  orders  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  I  only  saw  him  once  or  twice,  I  think,  in  all  of 
my  employment  with  him. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  long  did  you  perpetrate  that  sort  of  a  fraud  with 
this  fraudulent  employer  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  For  several  months,  and  then  in  the  middle  of  1936 
I  became  manager  of  the — or  part  manager  and  part-time  clerk  at  the 
International  Book  Store  at  635  E  Street,  San  Diego,  and  thereby 
terminated  my  dubious  employment  with  the  upholsterer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  you  in  a  position  to  say  whether  you  were  the  only 
one  in  that  fraudulent  employment  relationship  in  upholstering,  or 
were  there  more  than  you  as  a  Comnumist  in  there,  in  that  relationship  ? 


4692       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  TATX.OR.  I  don't  believe  I  ever  inquired  of  the  other  Commu- 
nist as  to  where  they  were  supposed  to  be  employed. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  ever  identify  that  particular  upholsterer  who 
perpetrated  that  fraud  with  you  as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No.  I  never  knew  him  as  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party.  He  was  just  considered  a  sympathizer.  I  never  heard  that 
he  was  a  member. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  you  have  described  to  the  committee  just  how 
the  Communist  Party  functioned  in  order  to  wield  an  influence  within 
that  local.  Was  your  group  successful  in  securing  the  election  of  any 
particular  individuals  as  officers  of  that  union  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  We  succeeded  in  electing  one  Communist  to  the  posi- 
tion of  secretary  of  this  union. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  name  of  that  Communist  5 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  am  not  certain  at  this  time.  That  was  many  years 
ago.  Eighteen  years  ago.  I  don't  remember  who.  And  myself,  ] 
was  elected  as  a  delegate  to  the  San  Diego  County  Federated  Trader 
and  Labor  Council.  I  don't  know  at  this  time  whether  Communists 
were  elected  to  leadership. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  approximate  membership  of  the  loca 
which  you  had  joined? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  was  a  small  local  to  begin  with.  I  don't  know,  o: 
course,  the  total  membership.  There  were  probably  25  or  30  peoph 
in  attendance  early  in  1936,  and  the  local  grew  until  finally  it  was  hav 
ing  membership  meetings  of  2  or  3  hundred  people.  But  I  don't  knovl 
what  the  actual  dues-paying  membership  was.  | 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  would  seem  obvious  that  you  had  a  little  diffi 
culty  in  controlling  a  meeting  if  there  were  only  20,  25  to  30  member 
present  when  you  had  as  many  as  8  to  11  Communist  Party  member 
there. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Actually,  we  didn't  have  too  much  difficulty  becaus- 
the  average  non-Communist  will  not  get  up  and  speak  and  he  is  no 
working  with  a  clique  or  group,  so  a  group  of  8  or  9  people  in  a  crowc 
of  300  can  completely  control  it  by  getting  up  and  endorsing  and  sup 
porting  each  other  and  speaking  for  an  issue  and  the  membershi] 
thinks  this  must  be  popular  if  8  or  9  people  are  so  intense  about  it 

Mr.  Ta^^nner.  Isn't  it  true,  however,  if  the  membership  of  tha 
union  had  been  aware  of  the  danger  of  Communist  infiltration  b 
appearance  at  those  meetings,  they  could  have  voted  the  Communist 
out  of  any  position  of  influence  entirely  and  whipped  the  Communist 
in  that  group? 

Mr.  Tayi.or.  Yes,  that  is  correct.  The  membership  did  not  kno^" 
Avho  were  Communists  in  their  local,  didn't  know  that  there  were  am 
at  all. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  name  of  the  local  ? 

Mr.  TAYT.0R.  It  was  the  Ketail  Clerks'  International  Protective  As 
sociation.     I  don't  remember  the  number  of  the  local. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  any  other  matter  in  which  the  Com 
munist  Party  wielded  an  influence  within  that  local  while  you  wer 
a  member  of  it? 


Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.     The  Communist  Party  decided  toward  the  latte:  ^ 
half  of  193(5  that  they  should  swing  the  clerks  union  into  the  CIO 


to 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4693 

which  had  just  taken  shape  nationally.  Also  at  this  time,  approxi- 
mately either  late  1936  or  early  1937,  rather,  of  which  I  am  speaking, 
the  Communist  Party  had  nearly  seized  control  of  the  Federated 
JTrades  and  Labor  Council  by  packing  it  with  their  members  and  sym- 
Ipathizers,  and  early  in  1937  the  national  organization  of  the  A.  F.  of  L. 
swooped  down  just  in  time  and  lifted  the  charter  of  the  Federated 
Trades  and  Labor  Council  to  prevent  the  Communists  from  seizing 
complete  control  of  the  labor  movement  in  San  Diego,  and  this  quick 
decisive  action. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.  Let's  leave  the  thread  of  your 
story  a  minute  and  follow  what  you  have  just  said.  You  had  been 
elected  through  the  efforts  of  the  Communist  Party  to  the  position  of 
delegate  to  this  trade  council  as  a  result  of  the  work  of  the  Communists 
in  this  group,  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  elected  by  the  Retail  Clerks  Union. 

Mr.  TA^^NNER.  Yes.  And  by  that  method  the  Communist  Party 
njot  a  representative  on  the  trade  council? 

Mr.  Tatt.or.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  other  Communists,  that  is,  persons 
Snown  to  you  through  your  own  knowledge  to  be  Conununists,  were 
similarly  successful  in  getting  on  the  trade  council? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  would  say  20  or  25. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Twenty  or  twenty-five  out  of  a  total  membership 
)f  how  many? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  that  doesn't  include  sympathizers.  Those  25 
Dommunists  had  a  great  many  other  delegates  who  worked  with  them 
land  in  glove  who,  however,  were  not  Communists.  I  would  say 
;here  were  nearly  150  delegates  at  this  time  to  the  Federated  Trades 
md  Labor  Council  and  the  Communist  Party  controlled  nearly  half 
)f  them. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  at  this  point  in  your 
estimony,  if  you  can  recall,  who  the  Communist  Party  members  were 
)f  the  trade  council,  persons  who  like  yourself  had  been  successful 
n  being  elected  to  that  group  as  delegates  from  their  respective 
mions? 

Mr.  Tayl<3r.  I  can  only  think  of  a  few  names  because  I  was  not 
vorking  with  these  other  Communists  as  a  Communist,  so  I  didn't 
enow  them  all  personally,  but  the  head  of  the  Federated  Trades  and 
-/abor  Council  was  a  Communist,  his  name  was  A.  C.  Rogers.  He 
vas  the  organizational  secretary. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  that  is  senior  or  junior? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  it  must  be  senior. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  3^0  u  give  the  committee  some  indication  of  his 
ige  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Tayi^or.  I  would  say  he  was  a  man  of  38. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  was  he  employed?     If  you  know. 

Mr.  Taylor.  A.  C.  Rogers,  I  believe,  belonged  to  the  office  workers 
mion. 

.  Mr.  Tavenner.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  was 
uccessful  in  getting  on  the  labor  council  by  the  same  methods  that, 
'ou  were  successful  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Of  course,  I  can't  say  as  to  that.  A.  C.  Rogers  was  a 
aan  of  unusual  ability,  that  is,  he  was  personally  a  very  capable 


4694        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

man,  and  he  was  very  sincere  about  union  work.  He  was  a  unionist 
at  heart  and  he  had  been  misguided  into  thinking  that  the  Communist 
Party  was  for  labor.  He  reached  his  position  due  to  sheer  ability,  in 
my  opinion,  although  he  was  duped  and  later  found  out  he  was  duped 
and  broke  with  the  Communist  Party  and  is  no  longer  a  Communist. 
Mr.  Tavenxer.  Will  you  give  the  committee  the  names  of  others 
whom  you  know  of  your  personal  knowledge  were  members  of  the 
party  and  were  meml)ers  of  the  labor  council  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  And  further,  if  the  witness  will  also  state,  if  he  knows, 
whether  or  not  they  terminated  their  association  with  the  Communist 
Party  at  any  time  subsequent  to  that. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  can  think  of  one  other.     A   man   named  Carroll 
Hunnewell,  two  r's  in  Carroll.     He  was  a  delegate  from  the  tailors 
union,  I  believe,  cleaning  establishment  union,  perhaps,  would  be  more 
correct.     And  offhand  I  can't  think  of  any  others  right  at  this  time. 
There  was  a  Lydick,  John  Lydick,  who  joined  the  Communist  Party 
for  a  while.     He  was  a  delegate  for  the  various  trade  and  labor  coun- 
cils, and  he  became  the  organizational  secretar}^  of  this  trade  council 
after  A.  C.  Rogers  left. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Excuse  me.     What  was  his  name  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  John  Lydick. 
Mr.  Tavt.nner.  Will  you  spell  the  name? 

Mr.  Taylor.  L-y-d-i-c-k.  He  was  an  officer  of  the  plasterers 
union.  He  also  broke  with  the  Communist  Party  shortly  after,  I 
would  say  very  soon  after,  some  time  in  the  middle  of  1937. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  any  others? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Offhand  I  can't  think  of  any  others.  That  happened 
17  years  ago,  and  the  only  ones  that  I  worked  with  were  the  Com- 
munists in  the  clerks  union,  those  are  the  only  ones  that  I  was  asso- 
ciated with. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name 
of  Saul  Barnhart  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  of  your  own  personal  knowledge 
whether  he  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  never  saw  Saul  Barnhart  at  a  Connnunist  Party 
meeting,  but  he  was  generally  in  the  Communist  Party  headquartei"s, 
which  at  that  time  was  at  852  Eighth  Avenue,  San  Diego,  just  across 
from  the  public  library. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  Saul  Barnhart  was  identified  as  a 
delegate  from  the  tailors  union  who  was  a  member  of  this  group  by 
the  witness  Stanley  Hancock. 

Now  I  interrupted — in  order  to  get  before  the  committee  the  method 
of  procedure  in  the  labor  council,  I  interrupted  your  story  as  to  what 
was  occurring  within  your  local,  when  the  Communist  Party  decided 
to  take  it  out  of  the  A.  F.  of  L.  and  into  the  CIO. 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  proceed  witli  that,  please  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  When  the  A.  F.  of  L.  purged  itself  from  the  Com- 
munists in  1037  and  completely  destroyed  the  Communist  influence 
in  the  Federated  Trades  and  I^abor  Council,  the  Communists  in  the 
retail  clerks  union,  most  of  them,  began  to  get  desperate  and  felt 
that  they  would  be  expelled  from  tliat  union  and  their  charter  lifted. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4695.. 

so  the}'  determined  to  try  to  pull  this  organization  into  the  ClO,  to* 
desert  the  A.  F.  of  L.  The  result  was  that  the  Communists  put  the 
j)ressure  on  the  leadership  of  the  clerks  union,  most  of  whom  were  not 
Conmiunists,  and  convinced  them  of  the  necessity  of  calling  an  elec- 
tion of  the  entire  membershi):*  to  vote  whether  to  join  the  CIO.  At 
this  period — I  should  mention  this  was  the  period  of  the  famous  sit- 
down  strikes — if  you  remember  back  16  or  17  yesLYS  ago  there  was 
a  national  wave  of  sitdown  strikes  in  department  stores,  clerk  sit- 
down  strikes.  It  just  lasted  a  few  months  but  it  was  sort  of  a  mass 
hysteria  that  swept  the  country  as  a  mass  enthusiasm  of  clerks  hoping 
to  get  wage  increases  by  sitdown  strikes.  I  believe  these  sitdown 
sfi-ikes  followed  similar  sitdown  strikes  in  automotive  industries  and 
otliers.  So  there  had  been  a  large  influx  of  clerks  into  the  retail  clerks 
union  in  1937.  As  I  say,  the  membership  meetings  were  in  the  hun- 
dreds of  this  one  local.  One  of  the  Communists,  whose  name  I  do 
not  recall,  he  was  recording  secretary  of  the  local,  he  was  ordered  by 
tlie  union  officials  to  send  out  postcards  to  every  member  of  the  retail 
clerks  union  to  advise  them  an  in:iportant  meeting  was  coining  up 
at  such-and-such  a  day  and  place  to  decide  whether  to  remain  in 
tlie  A.  F.  of  L.  or  to  go  into  the  CIO  clerks,  and  this  Communist, 
wliether  b}^  accident  or  purposely,  I  never  knew,  he  neglected  to  mail 
out  the  cards  of  membership,  possibly  feeling  that  the  membership 
A\ ould  not  vote  for  it.  The  result  was  that  we  had  a  large  hall  and 
only  20  or  25  people,  clerks,  showed  up  who  were  close  enough  to 
the  organization  to  know  about  it.  The  membership  wasn't  there,  and 
liit  was  at  this- 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  the  Communist  Party  members  there  ? 
Mr.  Tatlor.  Oh,  yes;  the  Communist  Party  members  were  there. 
Mr.  TA\T.NisrER.  A  hundred  percent  ? 

Mr.  Taitlok.  One  hundred  percent,  and  of  course,  they  outvoted 
the  non-Communists  who  wanted  to  stay  in  the  A.  F.  of  L.  And  at 
this  meeting  a  vote  was  taken  over  my  protest,  I  didn't  agree  with  it 
at  all.  I  was  the  only- 
Mr.  Tam^xner.  So  you  were  the  only  Communist  that  did  ? 
Mr.  Tayi.or.  I  was  the  only  Communist  who  got  up  and  said  we 
should  not  hold  a  vote  without  the  entire  membership  there  since  a 
mistake  had  been  made  and  the  cards  were  not  sent  out,  and  I  was 
under  a  cloud  with  the  Communists  for  a  month  or  two  as  a  result 
of  my  bucking  the  policy  of  this  Communist  faction,  but  as  a  result 
of  that  meeting,  the  clerks  union  in  the  A.  F.  of  L.  was  completely 
destroyed.  The  membership,  the  hundreds,  it  may  have  been  thou 
sands  of  membei-s,  when  they  read  the  newspapers  the  next  day  that 
the  Retail  Clerks  Union  switched  to  CIO,  they  said  to  themselves, 
'Why  weren't  we  notified,  who  is  running  this  organization,  a  clique," 
and  naturally  since  this  was  done  undemocratically,  the  entire  member 
ship  melted  awa3%  like  ice  on  a  hot  day,  and  some  of  them  even  mailed 
in  their  cards  and  said,  "I  wouldn't  have  anything  more  to  do  with 
such  an  undemocratic  organization,"  and  it  hurt  the  prestige  of  the 
A.  F.  of  L.,  such  skulduggery,  and  it  also  ruined  a  good  union,  and 
bhe  charter,  of  course,  when  this  happened,  the  A.  F.  of  L.  immediately 
Dicked  up  the  charter  and  the  books  and  everything,  because  the  union 
lad  left  the  A.  F.  of  L.,  and  that  was  the  end  of  the  Communist 
Bxperiment  in  the  destruction  of  a  good  trade  union 


4696       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Jackson.  Were  you  disciplined  in  any  way  for  your  action  in 
opposing  the  vote  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  because  it  was  obvious  in  a  few  days  that  tlie 
Communist  faction  had  made  a  mistake,  so  the  other  members  of  the 
faction  were  disciplined  in  a  way  and  some  of  them  left  town.  Wlien 
it  was  discovered  that  they  had  made  a  mistake,  they  failed  to  swing 
the  organization  bodily  into  the  CIO,  that  was  the  Communist  desire, 
and  since  they  had  failed  to  do  that,  they  lost  their  prestige  and  I 
gained  a  small  amount  of  prestige  with  the  Communist  leadership  for 
having  followed  the  correct  policy,  although  I  was  not  successful  in 
what  I  attempted. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  view  of  the  witness'  statement  that 
he  gained  a  little  prestige  from  having  taken  the  only  correct  policy, 
however,  the  action  you  took  was  not  the  policy  of  the  Communist 
Party  before  you  took  it,  was  it  ?  In  other  w  ords,  the  actions  you  took 
were  contrary  to  the  Communist  Party,  actually  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Communist  Party  gave  orders  to  the  Communist 
faction  in  the  Retail  Clerks  Union  to  swing  the  A.  F.  of  L'.  union 
into  the  CIO,  but  they  didn't  intend  for  it  to  be  done  in  such  a  clumsy 
fashion  that  it  really  destroyed  the  organization.  They  wished  to 
control  it,  but  they  didn't  at  that  time  wish  to  completely  destroy  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  only  opposition  on  your  part  to  the  Communist 
Party  was  the  holding  of  the  meeting  without  notice ;  isn't  that  correct? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct.  And  the  Communist  who  neglected 
to  mail  out  those  cards  was  practically  banished,  because  he  left  town 
shortly  afterward.  He  was  being  criticized  too  severely  by  the  Com- 
munist leadership. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  actually  employed  as  a  clerk? 

Mr.  Taylor.  He  was  probably  the  only  Communist  who  was  a  clerk. 
He  worked  as  a  shoe  clerk.    I  really  don't  remember  his  name. 

Mr.  Tavener.  Well,  after  that  fatal  mistake,  or  fatal  action,  which- 
ever it  may  have  been,  on  his  part,  in  not  mailing  the  notices  to  the 
membership,  what  did  he  do  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  What  did  he  do  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  He  tried  to  explain  to  the  union  leadership  that  he 
had  given  the  cards  to  somebody  to  mail,  and  they  had  neglected  to, 
but  he  never  did  bring  forth  any  such  person,  and  nobody  believed 
his  story.  They  sensed  that  he  had  simply  overlooked  mailing  the 
notices  on  purpose. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  he  make  any  explanation  to  the  Communist 
Party  members  in  any  Communist  Party  group  meeting  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  didn't  attend  any  investigation  that  the  Communist 
Party  held  over  this.  They  undoubtedly  did.  The  Communist  lead- 
ership in  San  Diego  undoubtedly  had  an  investigation  in  San  Diego 
as  to  how  it  happened  that  this  Communist  group  completely  de- 
stroyed a  union.  I  wasn't  at  such  a  meeting  and  I  do  not  know  what 
transpired. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  this  individual  make  any  statement  to  you  as 
to  his  purpose  in  leaving  San  Diego  or  the  reason  for  his  leaving? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  He  said  he  didn't  care  for  the  climate  in  San 
Diego  any  more;  that  he  thought  he  would  go  to  a  different  altitude, 
Salt  Lake  City. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4697 

Mr.  Tavenner,  So  he  left  not  only  tlie  Communist  Party  here,  but 
he  left  his  job? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  went  into  other  fields  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Jackson.  And  left  a  very  fine  climate. 

Mr.  Taylor.  And  a  good  climate. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  did  that  end  your  activity  within  a  labor 
union  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  That  ended  my  activity  in  the  American  Fed- 
eration of  Labor,  and  all  of  the  other  Communists  who  had  en- 
deavored to  capture  the  American  Federation  of  Labor  in  1937,  and 
the  Communists  never  did  regain  their  influence  in  the  American  Fed- 
eration of  Labor  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  So  that  was  the  climax  of  the  unsuccessful  efforts 
of  the  Communist  Party  to  control  labor  unions  in  this  area  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  TA^^:NNER.  That  is,  as  far  as  your  knowledge  is  concerned. 

Mr.  Taylor.  As  far  as  my  knowledge  is  concerned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  tell  the  committee  about  when  your  ac- 
tivities within  the  clerks  union  were  thus  terminated  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  don't  remember  the  date  of  this  period.  It  was  early 
in  1937  when  the  charter  was  lifted  of  the  Federated  Trades  and 
Labor  Council,  and  then  the  Retail  Clerks  Union  was  smashed  by  the 
Communists.    I  don't  know  the  month. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  this  period  of  time  when  you  were  active 
in  this  union,  did  you  engage  in  other  Communist  Party  activities? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  In  early  1937  the  State  Federation  of  Labor 
held  a  convention  in  San  Diego  at  the  Eagles'  Hall,  and  the  Com- 
munists attempted  on  a  statewide  scale  to  capture  that.  And  they 
managed  to  get  as  many  Communists  as  possible  sent  from  unions 
throughout  California,  to  send  them  as  delegates  to  this  convention 
of  the  American  Federation  of  Labor  in  1937,  hoping  to  capture  it. 
The  leadership  at  that  time  was  under  an  anti-Communist  group.  I 
was  not  a  delegate,  but  I  was  an  observer  and  reporter  with  Stanley 
Hancock.  We  attended  all  meetings  of  this  AFL  convention,  took 
notes  and  watched  the  progress  of  the  Communist  Party  trying  to  cap- 
ture it.  But  they  completely  failed  to  have  enough  Communist  dele- 
gates, and  this,  of  course,  was  early  in  1937,  earlier  than  the  inci- 
dents which  I  have  just  previously  mentioned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  of  which  demonstrates  the  importance  of  a  local 
labor  organization  being  alert  and  resisting  the  inroads  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  on  the  lowest  levels  of  their  unions. 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Counsel,  if  I  may  comment  at  that  point,  I 
should  state  that  we  have  hundreds  of  pages  of  sworn  testimony  which 
indicates  beyond  any  peradventure  of  a  doubt  that  apathy  on  the  part 
of  the  bulk  of  a  membership  of  any  given  organization  has  contributed 
greatly  to  Communist  efforts.  In  some  instances  labor  unions,  youth 
groups,  schools,  and  churches  have  been  infiltrated  and  taken  over  by 
this  small  minority  to  which  this  witness  has  referred. 

Sometimes  we  feel,  on  the  committee,  too  much  stress  is  laid  upon 
the  point  of  numbers.    It  is  quite  obvious  from  the  testimony  of  this 

47718 — 54— pt.  4 1 


4698       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

witness  that  it  required  a  very  small  number  of  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  to  exercise  its  will  vipon  the  majority  of  the  members 
of  the  group,  and  in  effect,  completely  control  and  disrupt  the  activi- 
ties of  the  organization. 

That,  I  say  again,  is  well  established  in  testimony.  There  are  hun- 
dreds and  probably  thousands  of  pages  of  testimony  which  indicate 
that  that  apathy,  that  neglect  of  responsibility  of  the  membership  in 
organizations  has  led  directly  to  Communist  control  of  the  group. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  other  Communist  activities  were  you  engaged 
in  during  this  period  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  expected  to  help  in  youth  work  in  the  organiza- 
tion called  the  Young  Communist  League,  and  with  the  destruction  of 
the  clerks  union  by  the  Communists,  I  was  sent  into  a  new  organization 
called  the  "Workers'  Alliance,  which  was  created  out  of  the  old  Unem- 
ployed Councils. 

The  Workers'  Alliance  was  a  national  Communist-front  organi- 
zation. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Before  you  tell  us  about  your  experience  in  that 
organization,  let  me  ask  you  if  you  did  any  writing  or  editorial  work 
during  the  period  that  you  were  also  engaged  in  union  activities? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  I  was  a  reporter  for  the  People's  World  and 
shortly  after,  late  in  1937  or  1938, 1  was  made  a  reporter  for  the  Daily 
Worker  in  New  York. 

Mr.  TA^^NNER.  I  hand  you  an  identification  card  saying,  "This  is 
to  certify  that  Dan  Forrest  Taylor  is  a  special  correspondent  of  the 
Daily  Worker,"  signed,  "C.  A.  Hathaway,  editor  of  the  Daily  Worker." 
That  is  your  identification  card  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  it  is. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  nature  of  your  work  as  a  representa- 
tive of  the  Daily  Worker  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  supposed  to  send  them  an  average  of  one  article 
a  day  about  the  events,  usually  Communist-inspired  events,  whicli 
were  transpiring  in  San  Diego.  They  also  wanted  me  to  write  full- 
page  fiction  and  articles  for  their  magazine  section,  which  I  did  do  on 
occasion. 

The  Daily  Worker  and  the  People's  World  of  San  Francisco  pub- 
lished 1  or  2  articles  in  each  issue  by  me. 

Mr.  TA^^NNER.  What  was  the  function  of  the  People's  World  in  this 
area? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  People's  World  was  not  labeled  a  Communist 
paper.  It  had  grown  out  of  an  official  Communist  paper  called  the 
Western  Worker,  which  was  also  published  in  San  Francisco  and 
which  carried  on  its  masthead,  "Official  Organ  of  the  Communist 
Party  in  California." 

The  People's  World  endeavored  to  rid  itself  of  the  Communist  label 
and  become  a  broader  paper  and  to  get  subscribers  who  were  not 
Communists. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  this  paper  may  have  attempted  to 
get  rid  of  its  label,  but  according  to  the  testimony  in  San  Francisco 
last  December  it  was  shown  by  members  of  tlieir  staff  that  virtually 
the  entire  staff  membership  were  members  of  the  Communist  Party, 
that  they  accepted  Communist  Party  directives  as  to  the  editorial 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4699 

content  of  the  paper,  and  this  committee,  as  you  know,  is  now  engaged 
in  the  work  of  an  investigation  of  that  periodical. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes.  The  witness  David  Blodgett,  who  was  a  re- 
porter for  the  Daily  People's  World,  testified  fully  as  to  the  ex- 
tent of  Communist  direction  of  the  Daily  People's  World,  and  stated 
that  it  was  an  organ  of  Communist  opinion  and  was  used  in  large 
part  to  bring  to  the  attention  of  Communist  Party  members  the 
current  and  official  line  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Witness,  I  understood  you  to  say  that  this 
group  endeavored  to  get  rid  of  the  party  label.  Do  you  know  why  it 
desired  to  get  rid  of  the  party  label  although  still  being  operated 
and  managed  through  directives  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  For  the  reason  that  when  it  was  labeled  the 
Western  Worker  on  the  second  page  over  the  editorial  page  had  the 
wording,  "Official  Organ  of  the  Communist  Party,"  they  had  no  suc- 
cess at  all  in  making  this  paper  popular;  they  couldn't  gain  sub- 
scribers outside  of  their  own  Communist  Party  members,  and  when 
they  would  distribute  this  paper  to  union  meetings,  the  average  A.  F. 
of  L.  member  would  take  the  papers  and  tear  them  up. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Isn't  the  reason  for  that  the  fact  that  the  Coni- 
munist  Party  could  not  sell  its  line  directly  to  the  people  of  this 
country,  that  they  must  resort  to  deceit  and  circumvention  in  order 
to  accomplish  its  purpose  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  therefore  knowledge  of  their  activities  and 
the  nature  of  them  is  essential  for  people  to  appraise  their  efforts  and 
their  work  and  to  evaluate  it  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  any  further  experiences 
you  had  as  a  representative  of  that  paper?  Tell  the  committee, 
please,  how  your  connection  with  the  People's  World  was  obtained. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  that  was  simply  an  assignment  which  Stanley 
Hancock  and  the  countv  executive  committee  asked  of  me  while  I  was 
writing  for  the  Trade  t^nion  News  much  of  the  same  material,  usually 
just  a  carbon  copy  I  mailed,  was  supposed  to  mail  to  the  People's 
World  and  the  Daily  Worker. 

Mr,  Tavenner.  Did  you  receive  any  compensation  for  articles  that 
you  sent  to  the  People's  World  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No.  If  a  Communist  receives  a  party  assignment  he 
is  not  supposed  to  be  compensated.     That  is  just  another  of  his  tasks. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  was  not  the  case  of  a  paid  party  functionary? 

Mr.  Taylor.  There  was  only  one  paid  party  functionary  at  tliat 
time  and  that  was  Stanley  Hancock,  and  I  don't  believe  that  he  was 
on  the  payroll  directly.     He  received  an  expense  account. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  point  is  that  not  all  of  the  assignments  in  the 
Communist  Party  are  a  labor  of  love.     Some  are  paid. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Oh,  definitely.  But  I  can  only  speak  of  San  Diego. 
Oh,  definitely,  they  have  a  great  number  of  people  on  their  payroll. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Is  this  a  good  time  to  take  a  break,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  This  is  a  convenient  place,  yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Before  we  take  a  break,  there  is  always  brought  up 
in  the  course  of  these  hearings  the  matter  of  the  jurisdiction  of  the 
committee. 


4700       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

I  am  willing  to  prophesy  that  in  a  number  of  cases  during  this 
hearing  the  authority  of  the  jurisdiction  of  the  committee  will  be 
questioned.  I  would  like  to  have  Mr,  Doyle  read  into  the  record  for 
me  the  authority  and  the  jurisdiction  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  it  well  that  the  group  here  in 
this  room  or  any  person  hearing  the  proceedings  be  reminded  that 
this  subcommittee  is  here  under  Public  Law  601,  enacted  by  the  79th 
Congress  in  1 946 .     I  read  the  text  thereof : 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee, 
is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (1)  the  extent, 
character,  and  objects  of  Un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United 
States,  (2)  the  diiTusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  Un- 
American  propaganda  that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic 
origin  and  attacks  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by 
our  Constitution,  and  (3)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would 
aid  Congress  in  any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or 
to  the  clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  such 
investigation,  together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such 
times  and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting, 
has  recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attend- 
ance of  such  witnesses,  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  docu- 
ments ;  and  to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary,  subpenas  may  be 
issued  under  the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcom- 
mittee, or  by  any  member  designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served 
by  any  person  designated  by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  consists  of  nine  members. 

Now,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  haven't  spoken  to  you  of  this,  but  as  I  entered 
the  hall  here  this  morning  an  hour  ago,  there  was  handed  to  me  on 
lettersize  paper  without  any  official  heading  thereon,  a  mimeographed 
sheet  entitled,  "The  Time  Has  Come."  Of  course,  that  is  the  freedom 
of  an  American  citizen  to  hand  out  literature.  Thank  God  it  is, 
and  I  know  we  will  always  fight  for  that  freedom  of  the  press  and 
freedom  of  public  expression,  but  as  you  know,  I  am  a  registered 
Democrat. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  heard  of  that. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  You  have  heard  it  said  and  I  am  very  proud  of  it. 
But  at  the  bottom  of  this  sheet  the  only  indication  of  who  is  respon- 
sible for  it  is  this:  "Thirtieth  District  Young  Democrats." 

Now,  while  I  live  in  Los  Angeles  County,  I  am  not  familiar  with 
whether  there  is  such  an  organization  as  30th  District  Young  Demo- 
crats or  not,  but  I  think,  Mr.  Chairman,  the  public  is  entitled  to  know 
whether  or  not  there  is  such  an  official  group  of  Young  Democrats 
in  San  Diego  County,  and  if  there  is  who  the  officers  thereof  are,  and 
I  would  like  to  say  that  I,  as  a  Democrat,  would  appreciate  very  much 
if  there  is  such  an  organized  group  of  San  Diego  County,  that  they 
will  identify  themselves  to  me  during  these  hearings  so  we  may  know 
whether  this  is  just  a  phony  designation  by  whoever  wrote  up  this 
sheet,  or  whether  or  not  a  really  constituted  group  of  young  American 
citizens  is  sponsoring  this.  Again  I  say  if  they  are  it  is  their  perfect 
right,  but  I  do  think  that  a  sheet  like  this,  the  public  is  entitled  to 
know  who  the  officers  thereof  are  and  whether  there  is  in  fact  such 
an  organization. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4701 

The  reason  I  make  that  statement  is  that  I  as  a  Democrat  would 
appreciate  knowing  whether  or  not  the  Democratic  organization  is 
really  sponsoring  that  announcement. 

If  there  is,  during  the  hearings  I  would  like  to  have  that  organiza- 
tion identified  to  me  just  as  a  neighbor  Democrat  of  southern 
California. 

Thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Doyle. 

That  is  not  to  be  interpreted  as  any  partisan  byplay  on  the  part 
of  the  committee,  because  this  committee  prides  itself  on  the  fact  that 
our  approach  to  this  work  must  necessarily  be  bipartisan  and  non- 
partisan. Those  that  would  like  to  divide  us  would  like  nothing 
better  than  to  insert  a  wedge  between  the  members  of  the  committee. 
I  make  this  statement  as  chairman  of  this  subcommittee,  and  as  one 
who  has  approached  his  labors  on  this  committee,  as  have  all  the 
members  of  the  committee,  in  the  spirit  of  Public  Law  601,  and  with 
the  determination  not  to  be  swerved  from  the  duty  which  has  been  laid 
on  us  by  the  Congress  of  the  United  States. 

At  this  time  the  committee  will  stand  in  recess. 

(Whereupon  a  short  recess  was  taken.) 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  committee  will  be  in  order.  Will  the  witness 
take  the  chair,  please  ? 

Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Taylor,  it  has  been  called  to  my  attention  that 
the  identification  card  issued  to  you  by  the  Daily  Worker  carried 
your  name  as  Dan  Forrest  Taylor,  where  your  middle  name,  accord- 
ing to  your  testimony,  is  some  other  name.  Will  you  explain  that  to 
us? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  that  is  correct.  I  began  writing  in  1933  under 
the  name  of  Dan  Forrest  Taylor  because  by  father,  who  was  a  teacher 
of  mathematics  at  San  Diego  High  School  for  25  years  had  the  same 
name  as  mine,  and  I  didn't  wish  my  writings  to  be  confused  with  him. 
My  father  had  written  6  mathematics  text  books  which  were  in  use  all 
over  the  United  States  in  public  schools,  so  for  that  reason  I  dropped 
the  middle  name  Pomeroy  and  used  Forrest  as  my  pen  name,  Dan 
Forrest  Taylor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  the  period  of  time  that  you  were  working 
as  associate  editor  of  the  Trade  Union  News,  did  you  also  do  editorial 
work  for  a  paper  known  as  Common  Sense  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Not  at  that  time.  In  late  1937  or  possibly  1938  the 
Communist  Party  made  me  the  editor  of  a  biweekly,  8-page  paper  in 
San  Diego  entitled  "Common  Sense,"  which  expired  after  a  few 
months,  6  or  7  months. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  it  staffed  and  financed  by  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  it  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  your  position  with  it? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  the  editor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  it  have  a  business  manager  or  other  executive  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  it  didn't  have.  It  had  a  staff  of  3  or  4  people  who 
helped  publish  it,  and  they  usually  rotated,  changed  the  staff,  different 
people  sometimes  every  issue. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  who  were  asso- 
ciated with  that  publication,  as  far  as  you  can  recall  ? 


']i 


4702        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EN"  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Taylor.  There  was  only  one  I  can  recall,  and  that  was  the 
organizer  of  the  East  San  Diego  unit  of  the  Communist  Party,  s 
woman  named  Keckler. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  a  person  by  the  name  of  Orville  James 
having  been  connected  with  that  publication? 

Mr.  Taylor,  No,  Orville  James  was  not  connected  with  the  papei  fi 
Common  Sense  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Orville  James  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  he  was  an  excellent  artist,  did  the  drawings  foi 
the  CIO  Aircraft  News  in  1937-39. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  he  was  not  connected  in  any  way  with  Commor 
Sense? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  was  a  member  ol 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  he  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  any  further  identifying  informa- 
tion as  to  the  group  that  he  was  a  member  of  or  his  activities  withir 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  don't  know  too  much  about  him.  He  worked  ai 
Solar  Aircraft  and  was  an  artist  for  the  Aircraft  News  in  those  earlj 
days.  I  have  no  idea  what  he  is  doing  now.  I  think  he  left  Sai 
Diego  about  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  you  told  the  committee  upon  the  com 
pletion  of  your  sojourn  in  the  labor  field  that  you — — 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  just  at  that  point  interrupt  th( 
witness  ?  Of  course,  I  don't  know  Orville  James,  but  I  am  wondering 
Mr.  Chairman,  if  that  is  sufficient  identification  of  him  as  a  membe: 
of  the  Communist  Party.  For  me  it  is  not,  if  that  is  all  you  are  goinj 
to  get  about  Orville  James.  I  would  feel  that  the  witness  ought  t( 
identify  him  more  than  he  has,  how  he  knows  he  is  a  member  of  tht 
Communist  Party,  or  was. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  think  he  should,  if  the  witness  can,  give  some  infor 
mation  relative  to  Orville  James,  whether  or  not  you  knew  him  as  i 
member  of  the  Communist  Party,  or  whether  or  not  you  attendee 
closed  sessions  of  the  Communist  Party  with  him,  whether  he  himsel 
identified  himself  to  you  as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  or  jusi 
from  what  source  does  your  information  come. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  I  saw  him  at  closed  meetings  of  the  Communipi 
Party,  and  he  on  occasions  mentioned  to  me  that  he  was  a  member 
I  knew  him  as  a  member. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Very  well.    That  is  sufficient. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  indicated  that  after  the  completion  of  youi 
work  within  the  field  of  labor  that  you  became  a  member  of  the 
Workers'  Alliance.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  what  led  up  to  that 
assignment  to  you  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  was  working  for  the  Federal  Writers'  Project 
at  that  time  and  since  my  activities  had  made  me  known  as  a  Com^ 
munist  in  San  Diego,  I  was  no  longer  effective  in  any  union  field.' 
so  I  was  assigned  to  work  in  the  Workers'  Alliance  and  to  edit  their  I 
newspaper,  which  I  did  for  3  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  newspaper  called  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Organizer. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4703 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  have  any  other  experience  connected  with 
he  Workers'  Alliance  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  1939  I  was  made  organizer  of  the  professional  local 
if  the  Workers'  Alliance  which  was  attempting  to  bring  in  white- 
ollar  workers,  artists,  singers,  and  all  the  cultural  field  in  which  the 
Vorks  Progress  Administration  at  that  time  had  many  professional 
)eople  employed  and  it  was  felt  a  local  strictly  for  them  would  be 
lore  to  their  liking. 

Mr.  Ta\^nner.  To  what  extent  was  the  Communist  Party  interested 
II  the  work  of  the  Workers'  Alliance  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  Communist  Party  controlled  and  directed  every 
iiove  of  the  Workers'  Alliance  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  TA\rENNER.  It  did  what?    I  didn't  understand. 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  directed  and  controlled  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  how  it  obtained  that 
nich  influence  within  the  Workers'  Alliance? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  actually  the  Communist  Party  was  the  founder, 
aganizer  of  the  Workers"  Alliance.  It  originally  was  the  Unemployed 
youncil,  and  it  was  simply  a  matter  of  changing  its  name.  The  Work- 
rs'  Alliance  in  open  meeting  affiliated  itself  with  a  national  body 
ailed  the  Workers'  Alliance,  \Yhich  was  a  Communist  front  also  and 
he  majority  of  the  leaders  of  the  Workers'  Alliance  in  San  Diego  were 
Communist  Part}^  members. 

Mr.  TA\rENNER.  Can  you  tell  the  the  committee  at  this  time  any 
•articular  projects  or  any  particular  objectives  that  the  Communist 
^uty  was  able  to  bring  about  within  the  Workers'  Alliance? 

]Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  the  Workers'  Alliance,  which  was  an  organiza- 
ion  of  over  a  thousand  members,  I  don't  remember  the  number,  prob- 
bly  between  one  and  two  thousand,  engaged  in  various  political  activi- 
ies.  Its  work  was  similar  to  that  of  the  Unemployed  Council's,  ex- 
ept  that  the  Workers'  Alliance  did  not  admit  to  being  Communist. 
Che  Communist  leaders  in  it  were  advised  generally  to  deny  that  they 
s^ere  Communists  to  the  public,  and  they  did  not  want,  similar  to  their 
lewspaper,  they  wanted  to  give  it  a  non-Communist  appearance,  and 
hat  was  the  attempt  that  was  made  by  the  W^orkers'  Alliance.  Their 
ctivities,  as  I  say,  were  approximately  the  same  as  the  Unemployed 
council's.  They  endeavored  to  get  people  in  the  relief  and  WPA  that 
v-ere  friendly  to  the  Workers'  Alliance.  If  there  were  hostile  people 
here,  why,  the  Workers'  Alliance  put  on  a  campaign  to  have  them 
emoved  or  sent  elsewhere.  It  was  a  matter  of  building  up  the  pres- 
ige  of  the  Workers'  Alliance  with  the  local  authorities  of  the  Works 
Progress  Administration  and  county  welfare  and  relief. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  active  in  the  Workers" 
alliance  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Until  early  in  1940. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  who  as  members 
if  the  Communist  Party  were  active  in  the  Avork  of  the  Workers' 
Llliance  in  addition  to  yourself  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  organizer  of  the  Workers'  Alliance  was  a  man 
lamed  C.  V.  Walilenmaier.  He  was  also  a  member  of  the  county  exec- 
itive  committee  of  the  Communist  Party  and  was  the  Communist 
drector  for  that  line  of  work  for  that  field.  The  others  I  mentioned, 
ones  and  Newsome,  they  were  the  principal  guiding  lights  of  the 
Vorkers'  Alliance.     They  were  the  hardest  workers  in  that  organiza- 


4704       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

tion,  and  then,  of  course,  there  were  other  Communists  that  came  and 
went  over  the  years,  some  for  a  few  months,  and  others  for  a  year,  but 
I  don't  recall  many  of  their  names. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  have  told  us  of  this  second  group  of  the 
Communist  Party  to  which  you  were  assigned,  and  I  think  that  was 
from  a  period  in  1936  on  up  to  the  end  of  your  Communist  Partj 
activities  in  San  Diego.     Was  there  a  third  group  during  that  period  \ 

Mr.  Taylor.  There  was  a  third  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Before  we  come  to  the  third  group,  will  you  tel] 
the  committee,  please,  who  composed  this  second  group?  I  am  told 
you  have  already  given  us  that  testimony.  Then  let  us  proceed  with 
the  third  group. 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  third  group,  that  is  the  third  unit  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  which  I  was  sent  into  in  1937,  was  composed  of  mud 
the  same  people  as  the  second  group  with  the  addition  of  Esco  Richard 
son,  Jen  Richardson,  and  C.  V.  Wahlenmaier.  That  is  all  I  can  think 
of  at  the  moment.     It  was  a  group  of  14  to  20  people.     It  varied. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  oJ 
La  Verne  Lym,  L-y-m  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  he  was  also  a  member  of  that  unit  for  a  year  oi 
two. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  he  was  also  on  the  executive 
committee  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes;  he  was  made  a  member  of  the  county  executive 
committee  of  the  Communist  Party  in  1938,  I  believe,  when  he  wa 
appointed  People's  World  director  for  San  Diego  County.  He  was  ii 
charge  of  circulation  of  the  People's  World  in  the  city. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  write  for  that  paper  during  the  period  o: 
time  he  was  circulation  manager,  did  you  say  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  did  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  his  wife  as  a  member  of  the  Commu 
nist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  his  wife's  name  was  Frances,  and  she  was  also  { 
member  of  my  unit,  Communist  unit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  this  period  of  time  from  1936  to  1940,  whei 
3^ou  were  a  member  of  the  second  and  third  group  which  you  havi 
described,  did  you  hold  any  office  in  either  of  those  local  groups  o: 
the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes;  I  was  invariably  the  educational  director  of  m] 
unit  in  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  were  your  duties  as  educational  director? 

Mr.  Taylor.  My  duties  were  to  give  or  lead  a  1-hour  discussion  ii 
each  week  at  our  unit  meeting  on  some  interests  of  particular  impor 
tance  at  that  particular  week,  some  issue  that  the  Communist  Part^ 
was  interested  in,  or  sometimes  the  education  discussions  were  on  mor( 
theoretical  mattei^s,  but  my  job  was  to  give  assignments  to  member 
of  my  Communist  unit  to  make  short  reports  so  as  to  involve  them  ir 
tlie  discussion,  and  also  to  see  that  the  members  of  my  Communist  uni 
kept  up  with  their  reading.  The  Communists  are  supposed  to  spenc 
a  few  hours  every  week  reading  Communist  pamphlets,  books,  anc 
newspapers,  and  it  is  the  duty  of  the  educational  director  of  the  unii 
to  see  that  they  are  keeping  up  with  their  reading,  and  particularly 


)ffi 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4705 

that  they  are  not  spending  any  time  reading  anti-Communist  litera- 
ti ue  or  seeing  that  they  don't  even  read  the  regular  press. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  that  there  was  an  effort  made  by  the 
Communist  Party  to  prevent  its  membership  from  reading  literature 
or  periodicals  against  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Oh,  yes ;  this  was  the  policy  of  the  Communist  Party. 
A  member  who  was  caught  reading  an  anti-Communist  book  would 
find  himself  in  very  serious  difficulties. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  you  mean  by  serious  difficulties? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  he  could  be  brought  up  on  charges,  charges  of 
expulsion,  charges  of  what  they  call  cleviationism.  He  would  find 
himself  suspect.  They  would  say,  "If  you  have  any  time  to  read,  read 
the  Communist  publications,  don't  read  those  that  are  hostile."  And 
they  had  so  many  publications  put  out,  they  put  out  so  many  scores  of 
pamphlets  each  year  and  dozens  of  books  and  scores  of  magazines,  that 
it  is  almost  impossible  for  the  average  Communist  to  even  keep  up 
with  the  flood  of  material  that  the  Communists  put  out  in  this  country. 
So  if  they  have  any  time  to  read,  the  educational  director  is  sup- 
posed to  see,  and  his  county  organizer,  unit  organizer,  is  supposed  to 
see  that  they  read  Communist  material  only. 
Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Doyle.  May  I  ask  this  question:  Did  I  understand  the  Com- 
'  munist  Party  tried  to  keep  the  Communist  Party  members  from  even 
reading  the  daily  press  ?    I  think  I  heard  you  say  that. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  If  it  was  discovered  the}'  were  reading  the  local 
I  press  rather  than — if  they  were  reading  it  and  ignoring  the  People's 
World,  this  was  a  serious  thing,  so  considered  by  the  Communist 
leadership.  It  was  perfectly  all  right  to  read  the  daily  press  in  San 
Diego  or  any  other  daily  metropolitan  daily  press  if  they  read  the 
People's  World  as  w^ell. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  was  your  experience  as  educational  director,  did 
you  find  many  of  them  that  were  neglecting  the  Communist  paper  in 
favor  of  the  daily  press  or  vice  versa  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  found  that  the  membership,  I  would  say  100  per- 
cent, subscribed  or  bought  the  People's  World.    This  was  expected  of 
them,  and  most  of  them,  95  percent  of  them,  refused  to  read  the  metro- 
politan press,  of  this  city. 
Mr.  Jackson.  That  all  has  a  slight  odor  of  book  burning. 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  About  which  the  Daily  Worker  and  the  People's 
World  make  such  a  clamor  when  it  concerns  any  other  particular 
philosophy. 

Proceed,  counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  the  period  that  you  were  the  educational 
director,  did  you  receive  any  instructions  from  any  particular  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  on  a  higher  level  ? 

_Mr.  Taylor.  While  I  was  a  member  of  the  county  executive  com- 
mittee, while  I  was  county  educational  director,  did  I  receive  orders 
from  higher  levels? 
Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  I  received  directives  from  the  State  Communist 
Party  headquarters  in  San  Francisco  at  121  Eighth  Street  as  to 
methods  of  conducting,  methods  of  holding  educationals,  and  as  to 


[: 


4706       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

classes  that  we  held  in  San  Diego.  One  duty  of  the  county  educa- 
tional director  was  to  hold  public  classes  in  communism  and  alliec 
subjects,  also  to  hold  private  party  schools,  and  I  was  also  in  charge 
of  mass  meetings,  rallies,  in  organizing  them,  meetings  that  wen 
held  by  the  Communist  Party  or  by  front  organizations  that  we  com- 
pletely controlled. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  other  positions  did  you  hold  in  the  Commu 
nist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  manager  of  International  Book  Shop  in  Sar 
Diego  for  nearly  4  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  that  bookshop  located  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  At  635  E  Street. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  about  the  history  of  it 
its  establishment  and  its  objectives  and  what  part  the  Communisi 
Party  jjlayed  in  its  operations. 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  had  been  set  up,  probably  in  1933  or  1934,  possibly 
1934.  It  had  been  set  up  by  the  Communist  Party  under  a  State  licens( 
obtained  in  the  name  of  the  Workers'  Club,  of  San  Diego,  offices  a 
852  Eighth  Street.  The  bookshop  was  located  on  the  second  flooi 
at  852  Eighth  Street,  and  the  Communist  leadership  decided  that  r 
would  be  better  to  have  this  bookshop  on  the  main  floor  on  the  stree" 
where  it  would  attract  a  larger  group  of  people  because  generally  r 
was  only  Communists  that  walked  upstairs  at  852  Eighth  Street 
The  others  would  be  afraid  of  getting  kicked  downstairs. 

So  in  1935,  toward  the  last  of  the  year,  the  premises  at  653  E  Street 
at  San  Diego,  were  rented  by  the  Workers'  Club.  The  Workers'  Clul 
was  an  underground  licensed,  legally  licensed,  organization  in  Cali 
fornia,  licensed  under  the  laws  of  California. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  you  mean  by  referring  to  it  as  an  under 
ground  club  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  in  the  early,  very  early  1930's  the  Communis 
Party  wanted  to  open  up  headquarters  in  San  Diego  but  they  didn' 
dare  do  so  under  the  name  of  the  Communist  Party,  so  they  incorpo 
rated  themselves  into  an  organization  called  the  Workers'  Club,  whicl 
was  simply  another  name  for  the  Commmiist  Party.  They  were  th« 
organization  that  rented  their  various  Commmiist  Party  headquarters 
It  was  a  legal  organization  so  it  couldn't  be  outlawed. 

The  bookshop  in  San  Diego  had  a  regular  yearly  license  which  ii 
paid  the  State,  I  think  it  was  $25  a  year,  which  was  the  bookstore 
license  in  those  days,  and  the  Workers'  Club  paid  that  license  eacl 
year,  but  the  bookstore  itself  attempted  to  have  a  broader  selection  o: 
books  than  just  Communist,  after  it  moved  to  its  new  location,  anc 
generally  the  books  in  the  window  were  not  of  a  Comnuniist  nature 
in  order  to  attract  non-Communists. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  about  the  books  on  the  shelves  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  About  90  percent  of  the  books  on  the  shelves  wer< 
Communist  and  the  rest  were  innocuous;  we  had  nothing  anti-Com- 
munist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  the  bookshop  used  in  any  way  in  the  plan  oJ 
recruiting  members  into  the  Connnunibt  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  it  was  a  field  for  reci'uiting.  Wherever  the 
Communist  Party  issued  leaflets  in  Snn  Diego,  and  they  distributed 
tens  of  thousands  of  leaflets  over  San  Diego  each  year,  the  address  or 
the  leaflets  was  always  653  E  Street,  International  P>ook  Shop,  so  some 


'■[\i 


COMMUXIST  ACTRITIES  IX  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4707 

J  leople  who  were  curious  or  interested  would  come  in  and  buy  material 
„r  talk  with  me  and  the  other  people.     I  wasn't  the  clerk  there  vei'y 
luch.     There  were  other  clerks  but  I  managed  the  store  in  the  evening, 
[lat  is,  the  business  end  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavexnek.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  wl\at  other  positions  you 
leld  in  the  Comnnniist  Party  in  San  Diego?  Wern't  you  at  one  time 
he  chairman  of  the  San  Diego  unit  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right.  After  Paul  Alexander  left  as  county 
hairman  of  the  Communist  Party,  a  position  which  he  held  for  sev- 
ral  years,  I  in  1939  and  early  1940  was  made  chairman  of  the  county 
rganization  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  then  following  that,  in 
(tiid-1940  I  was  made  county  organizer  after  Esco  Richardson  left, 
^Csco  Eicluirdson  was  the  leader  of  tlie  party  after  Stanley  Hancock 
eft  in  19;]T. 

Mr.  Tavexxek.  Now.  as  liead  of  the  Communist  Party  in  San  Diego, 
LOW  did  you  receive  your  directives  from  the  Connnunist  Party  as  to 
he  course  that  you  sliould  folh^w^ 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  directive,  the  leadership  of  the  Communist  Party 
vas,  of  course,  undertaken  by  tlie  county  executive  committee,  a  body 
f  ()  to  8  people,  the  most  active,  well-read,  well-versed  Communists 
n  the  county,  but  at  that  time  in  1940  and  also  in  late  1939,  the  State 
f  California  sent  an  underground  organizer  to  San  Diego  to  more  or 
ess  guide  it,  to  be  the  actual  boss  of  the  Communist  Party.  He  was 
lot  k'uown  publicly.  He  was  a  very  secret  individual;  he  was  com- 
)letely  unknown  to  the  autliorities,  the  police,  but  he  gave  the  prin- 
ipal  orders  and  directives  to  the  Communist  Party. 
Mr.  Tavexxer.  Who  was  that  individual  ? 

Mr.  Tayi.or.  That  man's  name  was  Leech,  Bert  Leech.     He  was 

ent  to  San  Diego  on  the  payroll  of  the  Communist  Party  at  San  Fran- 

isco,  and  he  was  the  actual  boss  of  the  Ccmimunist  Party  in  1940, 

although  I  Avas  known  as  the  leader  of  the  party,  and  he  gave,  of  course, 

nany  orders  to  me. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Did  he  use  any  form  of  emploj'ment  or  have  occa- 
lion  to  conceal  his  true  identity? 
Mr.  Taylor.  I  don't  remember  whether  he  worked,  or  if  he  worked, 
am  not  familiar  with  that. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Mr.  Counsel,  not  to  anticipate  3'our  questions,  but  as 
oimt}'  organizer.  Mi-.  Ta3dor,  you  must  have  been  in  a  position  to 
mow  the  number  of  branches  which  were  then  operating  in  the 
ounty.     Can  you  give  us  an  estimate  as  to  that  mnnber  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  varied  between  12  and  18  units  or  branches  of  the 
IJonnnunist  Paity  in  San  Diego  County.  I  believe  it  was  12  in  1940. 
The  membership  was  falling  every  year  from  1935  to  1940.  The 
nembership  was  constantly  declining  in  the  Communist  Party  and  a 
unnber  of  branches  were  declining. 
Mr.  Jacksox.  What  was  the  reason  for  that  decline? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  the  fact  that  the  people  were  better  off  economi- 
cally, the  country  was  pulling  out  of  the  de])ression,  and  Communists, 
is  a  rule,  do  not  remain  very  long  in  the  party  because  they  soon  realize 
hat  it  is  an  un-American  organization  ancl  that  it  is  two  faced  com- 
pletely; that  it  will  say  nice  things  on  the  surface,  that  is,  make 
promises  to  people  for  many  fine  goals  and  then  the  members  discover 
hat  the  Communist  Partv  is  not  sincere  and  does  not  actuallv  believe 


4708        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 


tro 


in  the  program  that  it  spreads  among  the  people  in  order  to  fool  tht 
people. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Could  you  give  us  any  estimate  as  to  the  numbei 
of  members  or  the  total  membership  as  of  the  period  in  question  wher 
you  say  there  were  12  to  18  branches  in  operation;  what  would  tha 
have  constituted  in  point  of  numbers? 

Mr,  Taylor.  I  ]iever  saw  the  membership  books  of  the  Communis" 
Party.  In  fact,  the  members  of  the  county  membership  director  wer< 
never  even  supposed  to  show  them  to  the  county  executive  committee 
They  never  let  their  left  hand  know  what  their  right  hand  was  doing 
They  kept  that  membership  as  secret  as  possible.  I  was  told  whei 
I  joined  in  1935  there  were  300  or  400  members.  The  membershij 
director  said  to  me  at  one  time  when  I  inquired  as  to  how  many  there 
were,  she  said  300  or  400  members. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Who  was  the  membership  director? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Mrs.  Keckler  at  that  time,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Proceed,  Counsel. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  don't  understand  your  observatior 
wherein  you  say  that  Communist  Party  members  don't  stay  in  vei'j 
long.  You  stayed  in  about  6  years  before  you  got  your  eyes  open 
That  is  a  long  time  in  my  book.     Why  did  you  stay  in  so  long? 

Mr.  Taylor,  I  became  known  within  a  year  or  two,  say  the  firsi 
year  and  a  half,  I  became  known  to  the  San  Diego  press  as  a  Com 
munist,  my  name  began  appearing  in  the  newspapers  quite  often,  anc 
I  had  gotten  myself  out  on  a  limb.  I  wasn't  able  to  obtain  employ 
ment  in  San  Diego  without — I  mean,  no  one  wanted  to  employ  a  knowi 
Communist,  so  it  was  a  matter  of  simply  drifting,  you  might  say 
that  is,  I  remained  a  member,  although  each  year  I  began  to  realize 
more  and  more  that  it  was  a  very  diabolical  organization. 

Mr.  Doyle.  When  did  you  first  begin  to  realize  it  was  a  very  dia 
bolical  organization  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  began  dawning  on  me  in  1938. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  other  words,  you  were  3  years  old  then  in  the  Com 
munist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  at  any  time  become  a  member  of  the  State 
central  committee  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Our  investigation  shows  that  that  occurred  in  1940; 
is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  how  membership  in  the|l 
State  central  committee  was  obtained  by  you  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Tlie  Conununist  Party  did  not  have  elections  for  their 
leaders.  The  members  of  the  executive  committee  of  the  Communist 
Party  of  San  Diego  were  always  co-oped.  This  means  that  the  top|a 
leadership  selects  likely  active  Comnninists  to  leadership  without  any 
vote  of  the  memfeership  or  without  any  vote  of  the  Communist  group. 
The  members  of  the  State  central  committee  of  the  Communist  Party 
are  selected  in  the  same  way.  The  San  Diego  Communist  member- 
ship was  never  asked  to  choose  its  State  lenders.  The  State  leader- 
ship selected  them  and  I  was  selected  in  1040  by  the  State  leadership  i 
in  San  Francisco  to  be  on  that  committee,  the  State  central  committee 


ii 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4709 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  what  your  func- 
ions  were  as  a  member  of  that  committee  ? 
f    Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  supposed  to  attend  meetings  of  the  State  cen- 
ral  committee  at  least  once  every  other  month  and  to  carry  directives 
rom  the  State  leadership  to  the  county  leadership  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right;  if  you  will  proceed,  if  there  is  anything 
Ise  about  your  work  on  the  State  central  committee. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  of  course,  we  generally  have  to  make  a  report 
0  the  meetings  of  the  State  central  committee  of  Communist  Party 
s  to  activities  in  San  Diego,  and  I  was  often  questioned  as  to  suc- 
esses  or  failures  of  the  party  in  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  in  addition  to  the  regular  work  of  the  State 

n  entral  committee,  was  it  necessary  to  have  certain  legally  named 

lersons  recorded  at  Sacramento  under  the  laws  of  the  State  of  Cali- 

ornia  as  members  who  may  be  in  fact  different  from  the  actual  meiii- 

ers  of  the  State  central  committee  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  that  is  correct.  Any  legal  political  organiza- 
ion  must  file  with  the  registrar  a  list  of  their  members  of  the  State 
ommittee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you.  know  whether  in  filing  those  lists  the  Com- 
lunist  Party  always  reported  for  recording  purposes  the  true  names 
f  the  members  of  the  State  central  committee  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  The  names  that  were  filed  in  Sacramento  with  the 
tate  registrar,  is  that  it  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.     State  secretary,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Taylor.  State  secretary.  These  were  not  necessarily  the  names 
f  the  Communist  State  leadership.  This  was  more  of  a  dummy  com- 
littee.  They  did  not  want  the  true  State  leaders  known,  so  actual- 
7  there  were  two  State  committees  of  the  Communist  Party  in  Cali- 
ornia.  One  was  actually  a  fraudulent  committee,  dummy  commit- 
ees,  whose  names  were  sent  to  Sacramento,  and  then  there  was  the 
rue  committee  which  held  the  reins  of  leadership  which  met  in  San 
rancisco. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  were  a  member  of  the  true  committee  in 
940,  were  you  not? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  a  member  of  both  committees. 

Mr.  Ta%'enner.  AVhy  was  it  that  your  name  was  used  on  this  f  raudu- 
nt  group  that  you  speak  of,  or  the  dummy  committee  which  was 
iven  to  the  Secretary  of  State  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  was  necessary  to  have  Communist  registered  voters 
n  that  State  committee  which  were  registered  at  Sacramento  and 
here  were  only  a  few  Communists  in  San  Diego,  only  a  half  dozen, 

believe,  who  registered  Communist  at  the  courthouse,  so  naturally 
liose  names  had  to  be  used  with  the  State  registrar  in  Sacramento. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  So  in  your  case,  for  instance,  it  was  publicly  known 
lat  you  were  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  therefore  your 
ame  would  be  on  both  groups,  both  the  one  that  was  registered  with 
le  Secretary  of  State  as  well  as  the  active  membership  of  the  com- 
littee? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  the  Communist  Party  ordered  me  in  late  1937 
r  early  1938  to  register  Communist  at  the  courthouse  in  San  Diego,, 
or  the  reasons  that  they  needed,  there  had  to  be,  they  said,  a  certain 
umber  of  registered  Communists  in  order  for  the  Communist  Party 
0  stay  on  the  ballot,  and  they  made  sure  in  every  county  that  there 


4710        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

were  half  a  dozen  or  more  people  registered  as  Communists.  Other- 
wise, if  there  were  no  one  registered  as  Communist,  the  Communisl 
Party  would  be  thrown  off  the  ballot. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  the  lisl 
of  Communist  Party  members  of  the  State  central  committee  oj 
September  19,  1940,  which,  Mr.  Chairman,  the  committee  obtainec 
through  a  subpena  duces  tecum,  and  I  will  ask  you  to  examine  the  lisl 
and  state  whetlier  or  not  your  name  appears  as  one  of  the  members 
Will  you  look  at  the  back  page? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  identify  any  persons  from  San  Diegc 
who  were  members  of  the  State  central  committee  for  that  yeai 
whose  names  do  not  appear  on  the  official  list  registered  with  the  Sec- 
retary of  State  ?    I  can  simply  file  the  matter — — 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  believe  I  understand  your  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  want  to  find  out  if  there  were  any  persons  wh( 
were  members  of  the  actual  committee  whose  names  were  not  reportec 
publicly  to  the  Secretary  of  State  as  required  by  law  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Throughout  the  State  of  California  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes ;  if  you  know  of  any  members  of  that  committeei 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  see  one  name  missing  here.  The  head  of  the  Stat( 
Communist  organization  in  California  and  the  leader  of  the  Stati 
central  committee's  name  isn't  on  the  members  registered  with  the  Sec 
retary  of  State.  His  name  was  William  Schneiderman.  His  nami 
isn't  there.  No,  it  is  here.  My  mistake.  William  SchneidermaD 
Then  there  was  a  Betty  Gannett.  Betty  Gannett's  name  is  not  here 
She  was  the  second  most  important  Communist  leader  in  California 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Mr.  Chairman,  we  have  gone  through  the  alpha 
betical  list,  and  just  as  an  aid  and  to  save  time,  we  have  listed  thos 
in  that  document  whose  addresses  are  given  as  San  Diego,  Calif 
and  I  w'ill  read  them  for  the  benefit  of  the  witness. 

Clair  Aderer,  Mellisse  Gragg,  La  Verne  Lym,  Esco  Richardsoi 
Dan  Taylor :  All  with  the  address  of  San  Diego. 

Now,  were  all  of  those  persons  members  of  the  actual  functionin; 
committee  or  were  some  of  them  the  names  just  used  for  the  fraudulen 
purposes  you  mentioned  earlier  in  your  testimony  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  The  only  two  of  those  names  you  read,  the  onl; 
two  that  were  on  the  actual  State  central  committee  were  Esco  Rich 
ardson  and  myself,  and  this  other  name  which  you  mentioned,  Mel 
lisse  Gragg,  was  not  a  member  of  the  Connnunist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Not  a  member  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Not  a  member.    Could  I  interpolate  a  statement  here 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  would  like  to  say  that  proves  to  me,  although  '. 
didn't  know  this,  that  proves  to  me  that  the  trick  the  Communist: 
played  in  Los  Angeles  about  the  same  time  was  putting  the  nami 
of  Lucille  Ball  on  this  Communist  committee,  and  I  believe  LucilL 
Ball  was  never  a  Communist,  but  her  name  appeared  on  this,  isn' 
that  right? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  is  true, 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  knew  Mellisse  Gragg  personally.  She  was  a  ven 
nice  little  old  lady  about  70  years  old  at  that  time  and  she  was  no 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  her  name  appears  here,  whicl 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4711 

s  proof  to  me  that  Lucille  Ball's  name  was  put  there,  although  she 
rt'as  probably  not  a  Communist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  La  Verne  Lym,  that  name  appears  there.  Was 
hat  person  known  to  you  as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  he  was  the  People's  World  director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Clair  Aderer? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  person  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
:o  your  knowledge  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  she  was  a  rank-and-file  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  there  any  members  of  the  actual  functioning 
committee  whose  names  do  not  appear  in  the  list  for  1940  that  were 
filed  with  the  secretary  of  state  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  San  Diego  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  the  document  in  evidence  and 
isk  that  it  be  marked  "Taylor  exhibit  No.  1,"  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  will  be  admitted. 

(The  document  above  referred  to  was  marked  "Taylor  Exhibit 
No.  1"  for  identification  and  received  in  evidence.)^ 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  we  have  also  produced  under  sub- 
poua  duces  tecum,  similar  records  for  the  years  1934,  1936,  and  1942, 
which  I  would  like  to  have  introduced  into  evidence  and  ask  they  be 
marked  "Taylor  exhibits  Nos.  2,  3,  and  4." 

Mr.  Jackson.  They  will  be  admitted. 

(The  documents  above  referred  to  were  marked  "Taylor  Exhibits 
Nos.  2,  3,  and  4"  for  identification  and  received  in  evidence.)^ 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  for  the  sake  of  saving  time,  rather 
than  to  have  the  witness  search  out  these  names  alphabetically  in 
the  list,  the  staff  has  prepared  a  list  from  these  records  of  persons 
with  addresses  at  San  Diego  who  were  reported  to  the  secretary  of 
tate  for  the  years  1934,  1936,  and  1942.  I  believe  they  should  be 
read  into  the  record. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  For  the  sake  of  clarity. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Reported  to  the  secretary  of  state  as  the  State  commit- 
tee of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  matter  of  record  in  the  State  at  Sacramento. 

As  I  read  these  names,  Mr.  Taylor,  I  wish  you  would  state  whether 
or  not  they  are  known  to  you  personally,  from  your  own  personal 
knowledge,  to  have  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 

There  may  be  others  here,  as  in  the  instance  of  the  person  you 
mentioned  a  few  months  ago,  Miss  or  Mrs.  Gragg,  who  may  not  have 
been  members  of  the  party. 

Robert  S.  Anguis.     This  is  for  the  year  1934. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  did  not  know  the  man. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  not  a  member  of  tlie  Communist  Party 
|inl934? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  at  any  later  time  acquire  any  knowledge, 
personal  knowledge,  regarding  Robert  S.  Anguis  ? 


*  Retained  in  committee  files. 


4712        COIMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Taylor.  How  do  you  spell  that  name  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  A-n-g-u-i-s. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  never  heard  the  name  until  this  minute. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Forest  Beyrer. 

Mr.  Tayix^r.  I  knew  Forest  Beyrer  as  a  Communist.  He  quit  t  > 
Communist  Party  shortly  after  I  entered  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  William  H.  Bradley,  4127  Marlborough,  San  Die-  • 
Calif. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  can't  place  any  such  person. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  William  O.  Grady,  3646  45th  Street,  San  Diego 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.    Is  that  Brady  or  Grady? 

Mr.  Ta\t:nner.  Grady,  G-r-a-d-y. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  there  was  a  carpenter  named  Bill  Grady  in  the 
Communist  Party  in  1934  and  part  of  1935.  He  dropped  out  about 
the  time  I  entered. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Xathaniel  Griffin,  4056  8th  Avenue. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Nathaniel  Griffin  dropped  out  of  the  Communist  Parry 
before  I  entered.    At  least  that  is  what  he  told  me,  and  I  believe  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Stanley  B.  Hancock  has  already  been  identified  by 
you.     Claude  L.  Jones,  J-o-n-e-s,  Route  1,  Box  83. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Claude  Jones  was  also  a  carpenter  and  he  told  me  that 
he  dropped  out  of  tlie  Communist  Party  just  before  I  entered  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  identified  Bessie  A.  Keckler. 

Mr.  Tayi.or.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Roy  W.  Noel,  N-o-e-1,  no  address  other  than  San 
Diego. 


a 


la 


in 


M 


Mr.  TAYI.0R.  I  knew  Rov  Noel,  but  never  in  the  Communist  Party. 
He  might  have  dropped  out  before  I  joined  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Everett  O.  Still,  S-t-i-1-1,  2637  K  Street,  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  knew  Everett  Still  personally  as  a  member  when^' 
I  was  in  the  Communist  Party.     He  dropped  out  in  late  1935.. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Dorothy  Thayer,  T-h-a-y-e-r,  3541  Marlborough, 
San  Diego. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  never  have  heard  of  the  name  until  now. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Robert  Thayer,  same  address. 

Mr.  Taylor,  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  that  completes  the  names  on  the  1934  list, 

1936 :  Edna  Mae  Eby,  E-b-y,  233  Lincoln  Avenue. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  El  Cahone. 

Mr.  Tayloi'l.  Yes,  I  knew  that  person  in  the  Communist  Party. 
That  person  dropped  out  early  in  1938. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Stanley  Hancock  appears  again.    Bessie  A.  Keckler 
appears  again. 

Lacey  Kyle,  K-y-l-e,  Route  1,  National  City,  Calif. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  knew  Lacey  Kyle  as  a  customer  of  the  International 
Book  Sliop,  but  I  never  saw  Lacey  Kyle  at  a  Communist  meeting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Therefore  you  cannot  tell  the  committee  that  he 
was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  to  your  knowledge. 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

;Mr.  Tavenner.  Esco  L.  Richardson,  414  West  16th  Street,  National  f«r 
^ity. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  he  was  a  member  of  my  Counnuuist  unit  for  quite 
some  time. 


M 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4713 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Henry  E.  Sliriim,  S-h-r-u-m. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  knew  Henry  Shrnm  as  a  sympathizer  of  the  Com- 
lunist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  make  this  suggestion :  Unless  you  are  cer- 
ain  in  your  own  mind,  unless  you  can  positively  identify  the  witness 
s  a  person  known  to  you  to  have  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
*arty,  I  believe  that  you  should  not  make  statements  that  might  be 
iterpreted  one  way  or  another,  if  you  understand  what  I  mean. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.    May  the  Chair  interpose  a  question. 

It  is  true,  is  it  not,  that  the  names  that  are  now  being  read  were 
ertified  to  the  secretary  of  state  of  the  State  of  California  in  accord- 
nce  with  the  Electoral  Code  as  members  of  the  Communist  Party 
nd  so  appeared  in  public  records  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner,  That  is  correct;  and  I  overlooked  that  fact. 

Mr.  Taylor.  They  must  have  been  registered  Communists  at  the 
ourthouse  or  they  couldn't  be  on  the  list. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  Everett  O.  Still,  the  same  name  that  was 
lentioned  in  1934. 

Herbert  Stredwick,  S-t-r-e-d-w-i-c-k,  route  2,  box  483,  San  Diego. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  didn't  know  liim  as  a  Communist  Party  member. 

Mr.  Taa^nner.  I  have  read  to  you  the  list  for  1940.  In  1942  there 
ppears  only  one  name,  Matthew  S.  Vidaver,  V-i-d-a-v-e-r,  3026  45th 
treet,  San  Diego.  You  were  not  here  in  the  Communist  Party  at 
tiat  time,  but  have  you  ever  known  him  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
mnist  Party  ?     At  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No  ;  I  never  heard  of  him. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  think  during  this  interlude  that  the  Lucille  Ball 
latter  should  be  more  clearly  put  in  the  record.  I  believe  Miss  Ball 
ad  knowledge  of  registration  in  the  Communist  Party,  but  denied 
ny  activity  or  of  having  attended  any  party  functions  during  the 
eriod  of  time  she  was  registered.  We  should  get  that  matter  very 
efinitely  in  the  record. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Might  I  say  that  because  a  person  registers  at  the 
ourthouse  as  a  Democrat  or  Republican,  it  doesn't  mean  they  beloni^ 
r  are  dues-paying  members  of  either  organization. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  is  very  true.     However,  the  fact  of  the  regis- 

ation  is  a  matter  of  public  record  and  was  so  acknowledged  to  be. 
Fo  connotation  should  be  drawn  as  to  whether  or  not  she  took  part 
1  any  activity  whatever. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  this  question,  in  view  of  that 
bservation.  You  referred  to  the  major  political  parties.  What  is 
our  experience,  if  any,  as  to  whether  or  not  people  who  registered 
Is  Communists  in  California  during  your  membership  therein,  were 
ctive  members  of  the  Communist  Party?  In  other  words,  would 
eople  register  or  did  they  register  as  Communists  unless  in  fact 
ley  were  as  a  rule  Communists? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Sometimes  they  would  register  Communist  but  not 
e  active  in  any  way  in  the  Communist  Party ;  in  no  way  at  all,  as  in 
le  case  of  Mellisse  Gragg.  She  was  never  active  in  the  Communist 
•arty,  although  she  was  registered  Communist,  and  her  name  appears . 
n  the  State  central  committee  registered  at  Sacramento. 

]\Ir.  Jackson.  Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 


4714       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Taatenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  whether  o 
not  there  was  a  group  or  cell  of  the  Communist  Party  within  Scripp 
Institution  of  Oceanography? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  believe  it  was  in  1940  when  Esco  Richardson  aske- 
me  to  do  a  chore  for  him.  He  asked  me  if  I  would  go  out  and  delive 
an  educational  lecture  to  a  Communist  Party  group  at  Scripps  Insti 
tution  of  Oceanography  and  I  told  him  I  would.  I  hadn't  known  o 
the  existence  of  any  such  group  there,  but  I  went  out  to  the  meetin 
and  delivered  a  lecture  for  about  45  minutes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.   How  many  persons  attended  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Taylor.  There  were  probably  10  or  11  in  all.  I  am  not  to 
certain. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  the  meeting  held  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  was  held  in  one  of  the  cottages  on  the  grounds  o 
the  Scripps  Institution  of  Oceanography. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  see  anyone  at  the  meeting  you  had  evei 
met  before  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Only  one.     That  was  Paul  Alexander. 

Mr.  Tavenner.   Paul  Alexander  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.    Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  do  you  know  the  reason  for  Paul  Alexander 
being  at  the  meeting  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  he  was  assigned — I  learned  from  him  that  h 
had  been  assigned  to  lead  and  guide  and  direct  this  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  a  highly  secret  matter  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.    Yes;  it  was.     In  fact,  Paul  Alexander  felt  that 
shouldn't  even  have  been  let  in  on  the  secret. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  do  you  know  that  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  from  what  he  said.  He  said  that  he  expecte 
Richardson  and  he  thought  Richardson  should  have  been  a  little  moi 
secretive,  and  he  didn't  want  more  people  to  know  about  this. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  At  this  particular  time  did  you  hold  any  positio 
in  the  Communist  Party  yourself? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  county  educational  director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  you  as  county  educational  director  did  nc 
know  of  the  existence  of  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  position  in  the  Communist  Party  did  Rici' 
ardson  hold  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Taylor.  He  was  the  county  organizer  and  Paul  Alexander  wa 
the  chairman,  the  county  chairman.  This  might  have  been  in  lat 
1 939.    I  am  not  too  positive  as  to  the  date. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  given  the  names  of  any  of  the  person 
present  at  that  meeting  while  you  were  there  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No;  I  don't  believe  any  names  were  mentioned  at  all 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  introduced  to  any  of  the  members? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Possibly,  yes ;  first  names.  Bill,  Bob,  or  Paul,  like  thai 
I  don't  even  remember  any  of  the  first  names. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  it  appear  to  be  a  group  of  students  or  wa 
it  a  group  of  persons  older  than  students,  who  would  normally  have 
some  connection  with  the  school  in  an  official  way? 

Mr.  Taylor.  They  seemed  to  be  representative  of  an  official  capac 
ity.  They  were  older  than  students.  They  were  generally  in  thei] 
middle  twenties.    I  understood,  I  was  told  they  were  associate  instruc 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4715 

tors  or  part  of  the  personnel.  They  were  part  of  the  personnel  of 
Scripps  Institute  living  on  the  grounds.  I  don't  know  what  they  would 
be  called. 

Mr.  DoYi^E.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  at  this  point,  I  want  to  sug- 
gest to  the  witness  that  he  be  very,  very  sure  now  in  his  testimony 
of  who  he  refers  to  and  what  he  knows  for  himself,  and  what  he 
knows  by  hearsay  involving  this  institution.  I  would  like  to  question 
him  on  just  one  or  two  points. 

I  think  you  said  just  a  minute  ago  that  they  were  representatives 
of  the  institution.  Now,  that  might  lead,  Mr.  Witness,  to  a  pretty 
strong  inference  that  they  were  there  in  an  official  capacity.  You 
don't  mean  that ;  do  you  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No.  It  might  have  been  a  poor  choice  of  words.  They 
all  said,  they  all  told  me  where  they  lived.  They  lived  on  the  grounds 
of  the  Scripps  Institute,  and  that  they  worked  there. 

Mr.  Doyle.  They  all  told  you  that  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes.  Not  the  women,  some  of  the  wives  didn't  work 
there. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  it  was  in  a  private  cottage;  as  far  as  you  know 
it  was  in  a  residence ;  wasn't  it  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Was  it  at  night? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  Paul  Alexander  told  you  it  was  a  group  from 
Scripps? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes;  a  group  of  resident  people;  I  don't  remember 
the  terms  used.    I  don't  remember  just  what  capacity  they  had. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  don't  remember  just  what  he  told  you? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No  ;  I  am  trying  to  recollect,  but  I  am  afraid  I  can't. 

Mr.  Doyle,  Mr.  Chairman,  the  reason  I  took  occasion  to  ask  these 
questions,  it  manifestly  involves  a  public  institution  more  or  less, 
and  I  wanted  to  be  sure  the  witness  was  aware  of  the  fact  that  people 
would  rely  on  the  language  you  use,  Mr.  Witness,  in  connection  with 
this  incident  at  Scripps  that  you  were  there  and  the  occasion. 

That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Proceed,  counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  did  you  say  were  in  attendance? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well  around  10, 1  should  say,  10  or  maybe  11. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  it  being  a  mixed  group  of  men  and 
women. 

Mr.  Taylor.  It  was  about  14  years  ago. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  don't  remember  how  many  women  were  there,  maybe 
2  or  3,  possibly  2  or  3. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  any  of  the  group  were  hus- 
bands and  wives  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  think  they  all  were.  The  women  were  married  to 
the  men  there.     I  mean  the  individuals  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  invited  back  on  any  further  occasion  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No  ;  I  was  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  Mr.  Paul  Alexander  had  the  assignment  of 
developing  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 


4716        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  don't  know  whether  we  should  go 
into  another  matter  now  or  whether  Ave  are  close  enough  to  an  adjourn- 
ing period  and  you  wnsh  to  adjourn. 

Mr.  Jackson.  At  this  time  the  subcommittee  will  stand  in  recess 
until  1 :  30  and  the  room  will  please  be  cleared. 

(Whereupon  at  12 :  05  p.  m.,  a  recess  was  taken  until  1 :  30  p.  m.  of 
the  same  clay,  Monday,  April  19, 1954.) 

AFTERNOON  SESSION 

(The  subcommittee  reconvened,  pursuant  to  recess,  at  1:30  p.  m., 
Congressmen  Donald  L.  Jackson  and  Clyde  Doyle  being  present. ) 
Mr.  Jackson.  The  committee  will  be  in  order. 
Do  you  wish  to  recall  Mr.  Taylor  ? 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Taylor. 

TESTIMONY  OF  DANIEL  POMEROY  TAYLOR— Resumed 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Taylor,  you  told  us  this  morning  that  one  of 
your  assignments  in  the  Communist  Party  was  to  engage  in  the  work 
of  the  Young  Communist  League. 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  about  that  assignment, 
tliat  is,  what  the  nature  of  it  was  and  what  your  activities  were. 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  1935  there  were  two  units  of  a  Young  Communist 
League  and  I  was  assigned  to  one  of  them.  The  leaders  were  Mrs. 
Hancock,  that  is  Mrs.  Winnie  Hancock,  the  wife  of  Stanley  Hancock, 
and  Ray  Berquist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  the  last  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  B-e-r-q-u-i-s-t,  and  Bob  Feller,  F-e-1-l-e-r,  and  they 
were  supposed  to  concentrate  on  San  Diego  State  College  in  an  attempt 
to  organize  a  branch  of  the  American  Student  Union  and  from  there 
to  recruit  college  students  into  the  Young  Communist  League. 

Mr,  Tavenner,  Was  that  work  undertaken  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  They  were  not  very  effective  at  San  Diego  State  Col- 
lege and  I  don't  believe  they  ever  had  much  success  in  those  depression 
years  at  San  Diego  State  College,  none  that  I  can  recall. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  there  any  further  information  regarding  the 
activities  of  the  Young  Communist  League  that  you  can  now  give  the 
committee  ? 

Mr,  Taylor.  The  Young  Communist  League  in  San  Diego  was  a 
very  small  organization.  I  doubt  if  they  had  more  than  14  or  15  mem- 
bers, and  they  were  losing  members  quite  fast.  It  was  quite  an  un- 
stable organization  and  there  were  periods  in  which  it  would  fold  up 
completely.  I  know  it  was  not  very — there  were  many  months  in 
1936  when  it  completely  fell  apart,  then  they  attempted  to  organize 
it  again  in  1937,  but  it  did  not  make  much  headway. 

Mr,  Tavenner,  During  the  course  of  the  testimony  you  have  given 
us  the  names  of  quite  a  number  of  persons  who  have  been  identified 
with  the  Communist  Party  in  this  area,  either  as  officials  of  the 
Communist  Party  or  representatives  on  the  State  central  committee 
and  rank  and  file  members  of  your  particular  groups  of  the  Communist 
Party,  However,  you  told  us  there  were  anywhere  from  12  to  18 
different  groups  of  the  Communist  Party  here. 


)f 


?a 


Hi 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  EST  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4717 

"\^Tiat  opportunity  did  you  have  to  meet  members  of  these  other 
groups,  that  is,  groups  that  you  were  not  a  member  of  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  expected  to  visit  several  of  the  other  groups  at 
east  once  or  twice  a  year  to  observe  how  they  were  functioning  and 
lelp  them  in  their  educational  work.  Of  course  I  didn't — there  must 
lave  been  some  that  I  didn't  go  to.     The  industrial  section  of  the 

ommunist  Party  at  San  Diego  which  I  was  out  of  touch  with  in  1938, 

was  never  invited  there  to  speak  because  many  of  the  Communists 
vho  were  employed  in  industry  wanted  to  have  as  few  visitors  as  pos- 
ible  outside  their  group.  They  were  always  afraid  of  detection  so 
here  were  probably  5  or  6 — I  believe  5  or  6  units  of  the  Communist 
Party  that  I  would  visit  once  or  twice  a  year. 

There  was  an  East  San  Diego  Communist  Party,  a  National  City 
mit  of  the  Communist  Party,  a  Logan  Heights  Communist  Party. 
They  had  one  in  Encinitas  and  one  in  Pacific  Beach.  And,  of  course, 
he  one  in  downtown  San  Diego  was  the  unit  which  I  belonged  to. 

Mr.  Tavenxer.  Will  you  give  the  committee  the  names  of  any  other 
)ersons  who  can  be  recalled  by  you,  that  is,  persons  known  to  jou 
o  have  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party  and  not  already  identi- 
led  by  you. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  mentioned  the  most  that  I  can  think  of  offhand. 

Mr.  Jacksox.  Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Can  j'ou  recall  any  others  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  recall  only  one  at  this  time,  one  James  ]McDer- 
Qott,  of  La  Mesa.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  for 
everal  3'ears  and  one  of  the  leaders  of  the  La  Mesa  unit  of  the  Com- 
Qunist  Party.     He  broke  with  the  Communist  Party  about  late  1928. 

Mr.  Ta\t:xxer.  Are  you  acquainted  with  a  person  bv  the  name  of 
:arlCallendar? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  TA^^:xxER.  What  were  the  circumstances  under  which  you 
lecame  acquainted  with  him  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Carl  Callendar  was  a  customer  on  a  few  occasions  at 
he  International  Book  Shoj).     He  would  probably  drop  in  once 

month,  he  would  talk  and  purchase  a  few  pamphlets,  and  he  was 
ecruited  into  the  Communist  Party  early  sometime  in  1936,  as  I 
emember,  late  1936  or  early  1937,  but  as  I  remember  he  did  not 
emain  ven'  long  at  that  time  and  dropped  out  because  of  reasons 
i  bad  health. 

Mr.  Ta\-exxer.  Were  vou  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name 
fDelgado? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  I  was. 

Mr.  Ta\t:xxer.  "Wliat  was  his  first  name  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Mike  Delgado,  he  was  the  unit  organizer  of  the 
National  City  unit  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  TA^'EXXER.  You  have  mentioned  in  the  course  of  your  testi- 
lony  several  times  a  Communist  Party  member  by  the  name  of  Paul 
Jexander. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Ta\texxer.  In  what  business  was  Mr.  Alexander  engaged,  do 
ou  know  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No.     His  health  wasn't,  I  believe,  good  enough  for  him 

work  too  steadily.     No,  I  don't  know  what  occupation  he  had. 


4718       COMMUNIST  activities  in  the  state  of  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  how  money 
was  raised  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  on  the  expenses  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  this  area.  Do  you  have  any  personal  knowledge  of 
that? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  the  Communist  Party  had  a  number  of  financial 
contributors  of  business  people  who  may  have  been  close  to  the  So- 
cialist Party  back  in  earlier  days,  anywhere  from  1910  through  the 
1920's.  When  the  Socialist  Party  dropped  out  of  activity  in  San 
Diego,  the  Communist  Party  went  to  work  trying  to  raise  money  from 
these  people  who  had  formerly  been  sympathetic  to  the  Socialist 
Party.  There  was  a  vacuum  there  in  the  absence  of  the  Socialist 
Party  and  the  pressure  of  the  Communists  on  these  people,  some  oi 
them  having  successful  businesses,  and  they  would  attempt  to  ast 
them  for  monthly  donations. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  substantial  contributions  made  from  those 
sources  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Of  course  I  have  no  knowledge  of  how  much  wa? 
raised  because  I  was  not  too  closely  connected  with  the  financial  ends 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  was  not  one  of  your  duties  to  solicit  for  sucl 
contributions  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  for  a  few  months  I  was  given  a  list  of  small 
business  people  to  go  around  once  a  month  and  ask  them  for  $10  each 
but  that  was  just  for  a  short  period. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  persons  did  you  have  on  that  list  wh< 
were  contributing  as  much  as  $10  a  month? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  the  Communist  Party  in,  I  would  say,  194C 
gave  me  a  list  of  7  or  8  small  stores  on  Fifth  Street  between  Marke 
and  E,  and  these  people,  the  owners  of  these  stores  were  generall; 
refugees  from  Russia,  people  who  I  think  most  of  them  had  left  Russi; 
as  young  men,  boys  in  their  teens,  and  wherever  the  Communist  Part; 
discovered  that  a  businessman  in  San  Diego  had  a  Russian  back 
ground  and  was  born  in  Russia,  they  would  go  to  him  and  talk  to  hir 
and  say  they  would  like  a  monthly  contribution  to  the  Communis 
Party,  and  even  though  the  man  might  not  have  been  sympathetic  a 
all,  he  felt  that  perhaps  he  had  better  contribute  five  or  ten  dollar 
rather  than  suffer  any  possible  consequences.  It  was  more  or  less 
case  of  intimidation. 

Mr.  Ta"\^nner.  I  wonder,  Mr.  Chairman,  if  we  had  better  proceed 
in  executive  session  for  the  further  consideration  of  that  matter. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes,  I  think  so. 

Mr.  Taylor.  This,  as  I  say,  happened  in  1940  and  it  was  just  for 
few  months;  I  hadn't  laid  any  groundwork,  I  didn't  know  the  me; 
personally,  but  I  was  given  a  card  which  said,  which  entitled  mysel 
to  collect  funds  for  the  Communist  Party  and  it  seemed  that  man^ 
of  these  people  told  me  that  they  certainly  didn't  agree  with  what  wa 
going  on  in  Russia,  but  they  would  usually  say,  "Well,  I  made  a  pledg 
that  I  would  help,  so  here  is  $10."  They  weren't  a  bit  happy  about  ii 
I  wasn't  either,  to  tell  you  the  truth,  but  it  was  an  assignment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  of  any  other  assignments  that  wer 
given  by  the  Communist  Party  which  related  to  the  raising  of  fundi 
substantial  funds,  for  the  use  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  not  too  much.  I  know  there  was  a  circle  o 
sympathizers,  nonparty  sympathizers,  whom  I  knew — whom  I  hearc 
rather,  from  other  Communist  leaders. 


I'C 


msi 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4719 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  expect  your  testimony  there  is  probably 

] ';i tsay  when  you  say,  "I  heard." 
Mv.  Taylor.  Yes.     I  heard  it  in  meetings  of  the  Communist  execu- 

ue  committee. 

Mv.  Tavenner.  But  did  you  have  any  personal  knowledge  by  way 
•  conversation  with  Mr.  Paul  Alexander  of  any  assignment  that  he 
id  with  regard  to  the  procurement  of  funds  for  use  by  the  Com- 
unist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  recall  one  case  of  an  elderly  gentleman  who 
is  not  a  Communist,  but  had  been  a  Socialist  sympathizer  at  least 
ck  before  World  War  I,  and  this  man,  Henry  Weihe,  W-e-i-h-e,  had 
>ught  $10,000  worth  of  Soviet  gold  bonds  right  after  the  Russian 
volution,  I  don't  know  how  long  after,  probably  in  1920  or  1921, 
d  Paul  Alexander  told  me  that  he  had  been  assigned  by  the  Com- 
unist  Party  to  try  to  convince  Mr.  Weihe  to  donate,  to  make  a  dona- 
)n  of  that  $10,000  back  to  the  Communist  Party  rather  than  give  it 
any  of  his  heirs. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  an  elderly  person;  that  is,  Mr.  Weihe? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  I  think  he  was  over  65  at  that  time,  as  I  remember. 
ight  around  65  in  1939,  when  I  first  heard  of  this. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  were  the  circumstances  under  which  Mr.  Alex- 

^  der  told  you  of  this  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  simply  noticed  that  the  two  men,  Alexander 
id  Weihe,  seemed  to  be  inseparable  companions.  They  came  to  the 
ternational  Book  Store  together  and  they  went  to  social  functions, 
cial  parties,  and  house  parties  and  open  Communist  meetings  to- 
ther  and  I  asked  Paul  Alexander  how  it  happened  that  he  was 
sorting  Weihe  about  so  much. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  where  that  conversation  took  place? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  in  the  book  store  at  635  Eighth  Street. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  I  understand  you  to  say  that  that  was  during 

Jie  year  1939? 
Mr.  Taylor.  I  believe  it  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  the  two  traveled  in 
ar  together;  that  is,  Mr.  AVeihe  and  Mr.  Alexander? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes ;  I  generally  saw  them  in  Alexander's  car,  and  he 
,d  a  Ford  coupe,  I  believe.     Mr.  Weihe  didn't  have  a  car. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  whether  in  your  conversation  with 
Alexander  about  this  matter  that  the  attitude  of  the  Eussian 
)vernment  about  paying  the  bonds  was  discussed  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  Yes;  Alexander  said  that  the  Soviet  Union  would 
ther  that  this  money,  this  $10,000,  went  into  the  coffers  of  the  Com- 
inist  Party,  rather  than  have  it  paid  to  any  of  Henry  Weihe's  heirs. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  have  any  conversation  with  Mr.  Alexander 
any  later  date  as  to  whether  or  not  he  had  been  successful  in  getting 
is  $10,000  from  Mr.  Weihe  for  Communist  Party  purposes? 
Mr.  Taylor.  No;  I  never  discussed  it  with  him  again.     In  fact,  I 
't  the  Communist  Party  in  San  Diego  in  May  1941,  and  I  never  saw 

?r  m.  since  until  this  morning  in  this  hall. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  you  told  us  in  the  early  part  of  your  testi- 
my  that  you  went  to  Los  Angeles  in  1940. 
Mr.  Taylor.  1941. 


if 


4720       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  1941.     Did  you  retain  your  Communist  Party  mem  | 
bership  after  going  to  Los  Angeles  ?  J 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes,  I  did.  »« 

Mr.  Tavenner.  For  how  long  a  period  of  time  ?  '« 

Mr.  Taylor.  Approximately  7  months.  c 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attain  any  position  in  the  Communist  Part^  lo 
in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  When  I  went  to  Los  Angeles,  I  dropped  in  one  evening 
to  the  workers'  school,  which  was  then  located  at  Second  and  Sprinj 
Streets,  I  believe,  in  Los  Angeles,  and  I  was  asked  by  the  head  of  th 
workers'  school  if  I  would  accept  the  job  as  an  associate  instructor 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  did  you  accept  it  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  said  I  was  busy,  and  the  head  of  the  workers'  schoo 
must  have  checked  and  found  that  I  wasn't  very  busy,  and  I  wa 
ordered  to  teach  a  class. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  how  long  did  you  engage  in  that  work  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  For  4  or  5  months. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  circum 
stances  under  which  you  left  the  Communist  Party  ?     And  by  that 
mean  why  you  left  and  how  you  managed  to  get  out  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Taylor.  In  November  1941,  the  head  of  the  workers'  school  i; 
Los  Angeles  came  out  to  a  meeting  of  the  industrial  section  leadershij 
of  which  I  was  then  a  member.  As  I  mentioned,  I  obtained  a  job  a 
Vimcar  Steel  and  was  put  into  an  industrial  section  of  the  Communis 
Party  and  was  selected  as  one  of  the  industrial  section  leaders. 

The  head  of  the  workers'  school  came  to  the  meeting  of  this  indus 
trial  section  of  approximately  15  or  16  Communists,  they  were  th 
leadership  of  several  Communist  industrial  units,  and  to  everyone 
surprise  she  asked  for  my  expulsion  from  the  Communist  Party  o 
the  grounds  that  it  was  her  opinion  I  was  no  longer  a  Communis 
that  I  didn't  agree  with  the  Communist  Party,  and  she  considere 
that  I  shouldn't  be  in  the  Communist  Party.  It  boiled  down  to  th 
fact  they  had  grown  suspicious  of  me.  To  ^ive  a  brief  explanatio 
of  what  caused  that,  it  was  discovered  early  m  that  same  year  whi] 
I  was  in  San  Diego,  it  was  discovered  that  the  FBI  was  obtainin 
information  from  the  county  Communist  leadership  and  everybod 
was  suspecting  everybody  else,  so  I  fell  under  the  most  suspicion,  an 
that  was  one  of  the  reasons  why  I  was  asked  in  April  1941  by  the  Con 
munist  Party  leadership — they  said  that  I  had  been  transferred  t 
San  Francisco,  that  I  was  to  work  in  San  Francisco,  and  I  said  I  woul 
rather,  if  I  had  to  leave,  I  would  rather  go  to  Los  Angeles,  and  so 
left  and  went  to  Los  Angeles,  and  Communists,  of  course,  are  nc 
supposed  to  dispute  orders,  they  are  supposed  to  go  where  they  sen'||i'l 
you 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mean  you  were  required  to  give  up  your  posi 
tion  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  your  employment  here? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  go  and  do  the  work  of  the  party  in  some  ot 
place? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  was  on  the  Communist  Party  payroll. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  At  that  time? 


to 


COMMUNIST  ACTI^^ITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4721 

Mr.  Taylor.  At  that  time,  in  late  1940  and  early  1941.  But  instead 
f  going  to  San  Francisco  I  went  to  Los  Angeles  and  obtained  employ- 
lent  at  Vimcar  Steel,  hoping  that  I  could  drop  out  of  the  Communist 
*arty,  but  there  were  Communists  in  the  plant,  and  I  was  again  sur- 
ounded  by  Communists.  It  was  then  that  they  asked  me  to  come 
own  to  the  workers'  school,  and  there  I  was  asked  to  teach  a  class. 

I  apparently  wasn't  ready  to  make  a  sharp  break  at  that  time,  and 

didn't  make  a  complete  break  until  November  of  1941,  when  the 
ommunist  Party  brought  charges  of  expulsion  against  me. 

At  this  particular  meeting  the  head  of  the  workers'  school  was  un- 
iccessful,  because  the  majority  of  the  Communists  at  this  meeting 
lid  they  didn't  think  any  evidence  had  been  brought  against  me,  that 
ley  didn't  think  I  should  be  expelled,  so  the  following  week  the  same 
ead  of  the  workers'  school  came  back  and  asked  that  I  be  relieved 
f  the  membership  in  the  State  central  committee  and  be  relieved  of 
11  Communist  leadership  for  a  period  of  1  year,  at  which  time  I  broke 
)mpletely,  that  is,  I  moved  my  place  of  residence  and  I  changed  my 
jcupation,  and  from  then  on  avoided  contact  with  the  Communist 
arty  and  broke  completely. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  charges  for  which  you  were  dropped  related 

the  suspicion  that  you  had  given  information  to  the  Federal  Bureau 
f  Investigation? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner,  Did  I  understand  that  correctly? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  believe  that  had  something  to  do  with  it.     I  wish 
lose  charges  had  been  correct.     At  that  time  I  was  not  in  contact 
ith  any  Government  agency.     But  I  should  have  been. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  been  to  a  Government  agency  since  that 
me,  have  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  was  threatened  in  1942  by  a  man  who  is  the  head  of 
e  San  Pedro  Communist  Party,  I  was  threatened,  he  said,  "You 
ive  been  doing  a  lot  of  talking  on  this  job  against  communism 
nongst  liberals  and  amongst  the  men  here,  and  I  just  want  to  warn 
m,"  he  said,  "that  if  you  go  to  the  FBI,  we  are  going  to  make  it 
ugh  for  you,"  so  with  such  a  challenge,  I  went  to  the  FBI. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlio  was  that  individual  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  haven't  thought  of  his  name  for  years.  Joseph 
)lomon. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  any  further  identifying  information 
lating  to  him  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  he  was  raised  in  San  Diego,  although  he  was 
ring  in  San  Pedro  at  the  time.  He  went  through  San  Diego  High 
jhool  and  graduated  and  he  worked  in  San  Diego  until  approxi- 
ately  1939,  early  1939,  when  he  went  to  Los  Angeles  and  took  up 
sidence. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  what  work  was  he  engaged  at  that  time  ? 
Mr.  Taylor.  He  was  working  as  a  welder  in  the  shipyards,  Todd 
lipyards.     Not  a  welder;  a  burner,  a  burner  in  Todd  Shipyards. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  been  affiliated  or  connected  in  any  way 
ith  Communist  Party  activity  since  the  date  of  your  breaking  with 
e  Communist  Party  ? 
-  Mr.  Taylor.  No,  I  have  not. 


4722        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Has  any  effort  been  made  to  get  you  to  return  to  tl 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  there  has  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  I  have  no  further  question 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think,  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  counsel  a  questio 
please  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  DorLE.  What  is  the  fact  whether  or  not  this  witness  has  nam( 
any  individual,  more  than  one  or  one,  as  a  Communist  and  identifi( 
them  as  such  for  the  first  time  those  persons  have  been  named  in  pu 
lie?  Are  there  such  persons  who  have  been  named  today  for  tl 
first  time  in  public  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  all  of  the  individuals  mentioned  by  hii 
with  the  exception  of  certain  leaders,  like  Schneiderman  and  a  fe 
others  have  been  named  for  the  first  time  in  public  session. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  then  I  think  it  very  appropriate,  do] 
you,  that  I  call  attention  to  the  p;roup  that  are  here  with  us  in  tl 
meeting  to  the  fact  that  under  rule  10  of  our  established  set  of  ru] 
guiding  this  committee,  which  was  adopted  July,l,  1953,  that  the  [c 
persons  named  today  for  the  first  time  before  this  committee  in  pub 
under  rule  10,  and  sa  it  is  short  I  will  read  it. 


Rights  of  persons  affected  by  hearing : 

Where  practicable,  any  person  named  in  a  public  hearing  before  the  cc 
mittee  or  any  subcommittee  as  subversive,  Fascist,  Communist,  or  affiliated  w 
one  or  more  subversive-front  organization,  who  have  not  been  previously  nam 
shall  within  a  reasonable  time  thereafter,  be  notified  by  registered  letter,  to  • 
address  last  known  to  the  committee,  of  such  fact,  including : 

(1)  A  statement  that  he  has  been  so  named ; 

(2)  The  date  and  place  of  said  hearing; 

(3)  The  name  of  the  person  who  so  testified ; 

(4)  The  name  of  the  subversive  Fascist,  Communist,  or  front  organizat 
with  whom  he  has  been  identified  ; 

(.5)   A  copy  of  the  printed  rules  of  procedure  of  the  committee. 

B.  Any  person,  so  notified,  who  believes  that  his  character  or  reputation  '. 
been  adversely  affected  or  to  whom  has  been  imputed  subversive  activity,  n 
within  15  days  after  receipt  of  said  notice: 

(1)  Comnjunicate  with  the  counsel  of  the  committee,  and/or 

(2)  Request  to  appear  at  his  own  expense  in  person  before  the  committee 
any  subcommittee  thereof  in  public  session  and  give  testimony,  in  denial 
afiirmation,  relevant  and  germane  1o  the  subject  of  the  investigation. 

C.  Any  such  person  testifying  under  the  provisions  of  B  (2)  above  shall 
accorded  the  same  privileges  as  any  other  witness  appearing  before  the  ci 
mittee,  and  may  be  questioned  concerning  any  matter  relevant  and  germam 
the  subject  of  the  investigation. 

I  thought,  Mr.  Chairman,  it  appropriate  at  this  point  to  read  t 
into  the  record  so  that  those  who  hear  it  in  this  hearing  will  be  p 
sibly  advised  that  this  com^mittee  has  established  this  procedi 
whereby  it  is  no  longer  true  that  a  person  named  before  this  comn 
tee  never  hears  about  it  except  by  accident. 

If  we  have  the  address  of  that  person  that  person  does  receive 
registered  mail  a  notice,  as  you  will  observe  in  rule  10. 

I  might  state,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  it  is  a  fact  that  this  comn 
tee  for  the  first  time  in  the  history  of  any  congressional  committee 
the  history  of  our  great  Congress  has  adopted  such  procedure 
the  protection  of  people  who  are  entitled  to  clear  their  record  if  tl 
so  desire. 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA      4723 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Doyle. 

The  administrative  clerk  of  the  committee  will,  upon  receipt  of  the 
;ranscript  of  this  hearing,  so  notify  all  individuals  who  have  been 
lamed  for  the  first  time. 

We  have  been  advised  that  Senator  Fred  Kraft,  a  member  of  the 
California]  State  committee  on  un-American  activities,  who  has 
lone  an  excellent  job  in  the  State  of  California,  is  in  the  hearing  room. 

We  are  very  happy  to  have  you,  Senator,  and  hope  you  will  stay 
IS  long  as  you  wish. 

Do  you  have  any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  two  questions. 

You  said,  Mr.  Witness,  "I  was  ordered  to  teach  a  class."  I  wrote 
t  down.    I  think  that  was  in  November  of  1941. 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  that  was  in  May  1941, 

Mr.  Doyle.  Were  you  not  on  the  payroll  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  No. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Who  ordered  you  to  teach  a  class,  and  why  would  you 
alve  orders  from  Communist  Party  leaders  if  you  were  not  being  paid 
o  teach,  why  did  you  teach  merely  because  somebody  told  you  to? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  many  of  their  teachers  were  unpaid  teachers. 
;t  was  just  one  evening — well,  two  evenings  a  week,  and  many  of 
heir  teachers  were  unpaid. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  apparently  you  were  under  the  discipline  of  the 
Communist  Party  or  you  wouldn't  have  taken  their  orders. 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  DoYT.E.  Three  times  you  emphasized  that  you  were  expected  to 
lelp  and  ordered  to  help  in  youth  work.  Now,  that,  of  course,  deals 
vith  our  young  people,  our  teenagers  and  young  Americans,  without 

doubt  the  most  important  segment  in  our  country,  the  young  people. 

What  did  you  actually  do  in  youth  work;  you  said  it  didn't  amount 
o  much,  but  what  did  you  do  individually  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  My  activity  in  youth  work  was  organizing  a  young 
Iramatic  group  of  actors.  We  put  on  one-act  plays,  many  of  which  I 
^'rote.  These  plays  were  presented  at  house  socials  and  Sunday  pie- 
ties. Nearly  every  Sunday  the}^  have  a  large  picnic,  with  200  people, 
)ossibly,  in  attendance,  and  my  sole  activity  in  j'Outh  work  in  1936  was 
rganizing  this  group  of  young  actors  who  were  called  the  Labor 
theater. 

Mr.  DoYLE.  May  I  make  this  observation.     You  tell  me  if  I  am  in 

rror.     As  I  understand  it,  the  Communist  Party  historically  em- 

tlthasizes  and  places  great  emphasis  upon  the  youth  work,  trying  to  get 

pi  he  American  youth  into  the  party  affiliation  as  soon  as  practicable; 

jipn't  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  that  there  is  considerable  money  spent  on  the  na- 
ional  level  and  State  level  and  on  down  to  the  local  level  of  Com- 
lunist  Party  activities  to  try  to  capture  the  minds  and  the  lives  of  the 
oung  American  folks,  is  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Taylor,  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  One  more  question,  Mr.  Chairman. 

On  this  San  Diego  State  College,  you  said  that  there  were  only  14 
r  15  members  there,  not  very  effective,  in  those  depression  years.    If 


4724        COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

you  have  an  opinion  as  to  wliy  that  effort  to  <i:et  San  Die<jo  State 
College  students  into  the  party  activities;  why  Avasn't  it  effective? 
You  tried  to  do  it. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Apparently  I  didn't  make  myself  too  clear.  I  meant 
that  there  were  about  14  members  of  the  Young  Communist  League, 
but  these  14  were  not  at  State  College.  The  Communist  Party  re- 
quested, ordered  them  to  concentrate  on  trying  to  get  a  foothold  in 
San  Diego  State  College,  and  I  can  only  think  of  2  students  at  San 
Diego  State  College  in  1936  that  were  Communists,  one  was  named 
Tony  Kerrigan,  and  the  other  fellow,  his  name  eludes  me. 

Mr.  D0Y1.E.  Well,  I  wanted  that  clarified  in  my  own  mind. 

Mr.  Taylor.  With  such  a  small  base  they  were  unable  to  do  much  oul 
there. 

Mr.  DoYT.E.  But  you  were  in  charge  of  the  youth  work  at  that  time' 

Mr.  Taylor.  No,  I  wasn't  in  charge  of  the  youth  work. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Who  was  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  mentioned  the  leadership  of  the  Young  Com 
munist  League  was  Winnie  Hancock,  Bob  Feller,  and  Ray  Berquistjii 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  that  is  all. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  there  is  another  question  I  believe  '.\j'. 
should  ask  the  witness. 

Mr.  Jackson.  May  I  ask  two  questions  here. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  During  the  course  of  your  associations  with  the  Com 
munist  Party  and  front  organizations  in  the  general  area  of  SajPa 
Diego,  did  you  have  occasion  to  meet  or  to  engage  in  any  activity  wit!  d 
an  individual  by  the  name  of  Schwartz,  S-c-h-w-a-r-t-z  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  What  was  his  first  name? 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  am  sorry,  I  don't  know  the  first  name. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  never  knew  a  Communist  by  the  name  of  Schwart; 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  ever  know  anyone  who  entered  into  any  con 
pact  or  any  agreement  with  the  Communist  Party  bj'  the  name  c 
Schwartz  ? 

Mr.  Taylor.  Entered  into  an  agreement  with  the  Communis 
Party? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Well,  I  did  know  a  man  named  Schwartz  who  was  |iiit 
sympathizer,  but  the  name  is  an  exceedingly  common  name. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  have  any  personal  relationship  with  th 
individual,  the  one  you  knew  as  a  sympathizer? 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  never  collected  any  money  from  him.  I  didn't  ha"\ 
too  much  connection  with  him. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  in  possession  of  the  name 
There  has  been  a  name  mentioned  here  several  times  today  of  a  pr* 
vious  organizer  here  in  the  district  whom  we  subpenaed  and  hearfigli 
in  Washington.     My  recollection  is  that  the  name  was  Bert. 

Mr.  Taylor.  Mr.  Chairman,  could  I  make  a  statement? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes,  please  do. 

Mr.  Taylor.  I  would  like  to  point  out  for  your  edification  and  ui 
derstanding  of  people  in  general,  that  the  methods,  like  you  mentione 
the  methods  in  which  the  Communists  recruited  people,  I  would  sa 
more  than  9  out  of  10  people  who  were  recruited  to  communism  we] 
high  pressured  into  it.     They  were  surrounded  by  Communists,  tlfoiis 


iiiei 
Fitli 
iifoi 


COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA       4725 

Coimnunists  did  favors  for  them,  got  them  jobs,  such  as  they  did  me, 
hey  got  me  a  job  that  I  enjoyed,  and  surrounded  me,  and  when  we 
i^ere  out  to  their  house  socials,  and  that  was  after  doing  favors  for 
eople  and  getting  them  obligated,  then  the  Communists  put  the 
ressure  on  to  recruit  them. 

So  I  think  that  should  be  kept  in  mind  that  9  out  of  10  or  possibly 

liore  Communists  were  sold  a  bum  bill  of  goods.     They  were  told  a 

bt  of,  given  a  lot  of  rosy  promises,  that  is  what  the  Communist  Party 

Dood  for,  they  claimed  they  stood  for  everything  fine,  you  know,  their 

rogram  was  quite  a  chocolate-coated  document,  and  looked  good  on 

!  le  surface  to  a  lot  of  liberal  peoj^le,  and  so  people  who  joined  the  Com- 

fiunist  Party  not  only  were  pressured  into  joining,  but  many  of  them 

ad  decent  motives,  or  I  would  say  nearly  all  of  them  had  decent 

(iiotives,  and  they  had  no  inkling  that  they  were  doing  anything 

raitorous  or  doing  anything  of  harm  to  the  United  States.     This  in 

lie  depression  and  during  the  war  years  never  entered  the  mind  of 

I  recruit  to  communism,  that  he  was  being  disloyal,  because  the  Com- 

'fumists  said  it  was  not  a  disloyal  act. 

The  Communists  claimed  Russia  to  be  a  great  good  friend  of  the 
Tnited  States  until  the  last  8  years,  and  the  Communists  claimed  that 
ley  had  a  program  and  they  had  a  social  and  economic  understanding 
lat  could  benefit  the  entire  American  people,  so  a  lot  of  gullible 
eople  like  myself  were  influenced  and  high-pressured,  and  that  is  the 

ory  of  99  percent  of  the  American  people  that  joined  the  Communist 
'arty  and  that  is  why  I  don't  think  there  should  be  any — I  agree 

ith  you,  I  don't  think  you  believe  either  there  should  be  any  hj^steria 
V  any  reprisals  against  those  individuals  who  made  a  mistake  or  who 

ere  high-pressured  into  joining  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  committee,  I  might  say,  and  I  am  sure  that  Mr. 
)oyle  agrees  with  me,  finds  itself  under  the  necessity  of  calling  people 

hose  membership  extends  back  across  the  years;  in  some  instances 
le  conmiittee  must  pursue  that  course  in  the  light  of  the  fact  that  the 
mith  Act  defendants  of  today  were  people  who  were  branch  members 
1  many  cases  many  years  ago. 

We  have  no  way  of  telling  the  present  status  of  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  until  under  oath  he  is  asked  to  furnish  the  com- 
littee  with  whatever  information  he  may  have  in  his  possession. 

Relative  to  your  own  case  and  the  testimony  you  have  given  here 
)day,  we  want  to  extend  the  thanks  of  the  committee  and  of  the  Con- 
ress  of  the  United  States  for  your  helpfulness  and  your  cooperation 
1  adding  to  the  sum  total  of  knowledge  which  the  American  people 
ow  possess  relative  to  the  operations  of  the  Communist  Party. 

The  fact  that  the  American  peojile  are  today  probably  better  in- 
jfcrmed  with  reference  to  the  activities  of  what  has  been  found  in  the 
ighest  court  of  the  land  to  represent  an  international  conspiracy  is 
ue  in  large  part  to  the  fact  that  people  like  yourself  who  have  broken 
ith  the  party  have  expressed  the  willingness  to  come  forward  with 
if  ormation  which  is  in  their  possession. 

Is  there  anything  further,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner,  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Chairman,  perhaps  in  view  of  the  witness'  observa- 
ons,  I  am  sure  it  would  be  enlightening  to  all  of  us  for  me  to  read 


4726       COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE  STATE  OF  CALIFORNIA 

the  statement  by  the  Vice  President  of  the  United  States,  which 
appeared  in  the  Los  Angeles  Examiner  on  Sunday,  April  18,  1954, 
right  along  that  line.    I  will  only  read  a  portion. 

On  page  6,  section  1,  part  A,  Vice  President  Nixon,  who  by  the  way, 
was  on  this  committee  as  you  know  for  years,  said : 

The  big  question  posed  by  the  Oppenheimer  case  is  whether  the  Government 
should  take  the  position  that  past  associations,  even  if  foresworn,  should  ever 
preclude  Government  employment.  "I  do  not  believe  it  should,"  Nixon  said, 
adding,  "I  believe  each  case  should  be  considered  on  its  merits  particularly  when 
dealing  with  an  ideology  which  during  the  1930's  had  such  an  appeal  among  the 
intelligensia  and  various  other  groups." 

I  thought  in  view  of  the  witness'  observation  and  yours,  Mr.  Chair- 
man, that  observation  this  last  week  from  our  distinguished  Vice 
President  would  be  appropriate. 

I  wish  to  urge  the  very  point  you,  Mr.  Chairman,  have  urged,  but 
I  do  wish  to  again  urge  that  this  committee,  in  order  to  do  its  official 
job  for  the  United  States  Congress  under  Public  Law  601,  must  go 
back  as  far  as  is  reasonable  to  find  out  the  extent  and  the  nature  and 
the  methods  and  the  technique  which  was  employed  by  the  Communist 
Party  back  in  1936, 1937, 1938,  1939,  and  1940,  because  our  evidence,  I 
am  sure  you  will  agree,  Mr.  Chairman,  the  undisputed  evidence  under 
oath  before  our  committees,  the  very  methods  which  you,  Mr.  Taylor, 
said  were  used  when  you  were  the  head  of  the  party  in  this  country, 
are  still  used  by  the  American  Communist  Party  in  the  United  States 
of  America,  subversively. 

They  are  still  in  a  conspiracy  to  subvert  labor  unions  and  church 
groups  and  YMCA's  and  any  group  in  which  they  can  conspiratorially 
infiltrate  as  a  bunch  of  sneaks  and  undercover  dangerous  American 
citizens. 

I  just  want  to  take  this  position  at  this  hearing,  Mr.  Chairman.  As 
far  as  I  am  concerned,  any  American  citizen  who  stayed  in  the  party 
and  is  actively  working  in  it  since  April  1945,  at  least,  the  date  of  the 
Duclos  letter,  is  the  citizen  that  needs  to  be  scanned  and  scanned 
mighty  close.  But  that  is  not  eliminating  the  need  of  scanning  him 
before  that  date.  But  April  1945,  the  date  the  Duclos  letter  came  to 
this  country  it  was  declared  that  the  two  systems  of  economics,  the 
American  system  and  the  Soviet  system  could  not  get  alon^  side  by 
side  in  the  same  world.  Since  that  date  any  American  citizen  who 
stayed  in  the  Communist  Party  has  done  so  with  his  eyes  open.  The 
Soviet  system  is  determined  to  overcome  and  conquer  the  American 
system  of  free  enterprise,  so  we  are  in  that  challenge  and  that  is  why 
this  committee  is  here  under  direction  of  Congress  to  stay  on  the  job 
to  uncover  the  subversive,  traitorous,  sabotage  and  treason  that  is 
going  on. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Counsel,  do  you  have  any  further  questions  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Taylor,  with  thanks  from  the  committee,  you  are 
excused  from  further  attendance  under  your  subpena. 

( Wliereupon,  at  2 :  25  p.  m.,  the  witness  was  excused  and  the  hearing 
continued  with  the  testimony  of  Sterling  Campbell  Alexander  and 
Philip  Berman,  which  is  printed  in  part  5  of  this  series.) 


INDEX  TO  PART  4 


INDIVIDUALS 

Pa^e 

lerer,  Clair 4710,  4711 

exander,  Paul  {see  also  Alexander,  Sterling  Campbell) 4689, 

4690,  4707,  4714,  4715,  4717,  4719 

3xander,  Sterling  Campbell  (see  also  Alexander,  Paul) 4690 

guis,  Robert  S . . 4711,  4712 

11,  Lucille 4710,  4711,  4713 

rnhart,  Sol 4694 

rquist,  Ray — . 4716,  4724 

yrer.   Forest 4712 

)dgett,  David . 4699 

adley,  William  H 4712 

hone,    El 4712 

llendar.    Earl 4717 

Igado,    Mike . 4717 

clos 4726 

y,  Edna  Mae -, 4712 

Her,  Bob 4716,  4724 

nnett,  Betty . 4710 

ady,  William  O.  (Bill) 4712 

agg,  Mellisse 4710,  4711,  4713 

egovich,  Lee 4688,  4690 

iffiu,  Nathaniel ^_     4712 

ncock,  Stanley  B_4682^684,  4686,  4687,  4690,  4694,  4697,  4699,  4707,  4712,  4716 

ncoek,  Winnie  (Mrs.  Stanley  Hancock) 4716,  4724 

thaway,  C.  A .__     4698 

nuewell,  Carroll 4688,  4694 

mnewell,  Mrs.  Carroll 4688 

nes,    Orville 4702 

les,  Bert . 4688,  4703 

les,  Claude  L 4712 

les,  Martha  (Mrs.  Bert  Jones) 4688,  4689 

ckler,  Bessie  A 4683,  4690,  4708,  4712 

rrigan,   Tony 4724 

le,  Lacey , , 4712 

?ch,  Bert 4707 

flick,  John 4694 

m,  Frances  (Mrs.  La  Verne  Lym) , 4704 

m,  La  Verne 4704,  4710 

Dermott,   James 4717 

svsom,  Cosby . 4688,  4703 

wsom,  Geneva  (Mrs.  Cosby  Newsom) 4688 

on.  Vice  President 4726 

Bl,  Roy  W , 4712 

penheimer 4726 

!hardson,    Esco 4704,  4707,  4710,  4712,  4714 

hardson,   Mrs.   Esco 46S9 

Jhardson,   Jen i , ^ 4704 

?ers,  A.  C ,31  4693,  4694 

ineiderman,  William 4710,  4722 

iwartz,  Mr ^~__~ '  4704 

'um,  Henry  E 7 3     4713 

Eel,  Vimcar 4720.  4721 

fill,  Everett  O , ~ 4712,  4713 


ii  INDEX 

Pag( 

Stredwick,  Herbert 471J 

Strong,  Anna  Lonise 468: 

Taylor,  Dan  Forrest  (see  also  Taylor,  Daniel  Pomeroy) 4(398,  470: 

Taylor,  Daniel  Pomeroy  (see  also  Taylor,  Dan  Forrest) 4680-4726  (testimony; 

Thayer,  Dorothy 471; 

Thayer,  Robert . 471! 

Toback,  James 4683,  4687-469( 

Vidaver,  Matthew  S 4711 

Weihe,    Henry . 471! 

Wahlenmaier,  C.  V __^ 4703,  470- 

ORGANIZATIONS 

American  Federation  of  Labor 4687 

4689,  4690,  4691,  4693-4697,  469! 

American   Student  Union 471i 

California  State  Federation  of  Labor 469 

Communist  Party,  California  State  Central  Committee 4708,  470! 

Communist  Party,  East  San  Diego  Unit 4702,  471' 

Communist   Party,    Encinitas,   California 471' 

CommunLst  Partv,  Pacific  Beach,  California 471 

Communist  Party,  San  Diego 4682,  4683,  4685,  4707,  4708,  471 

Communist  Party,   San  Diego  County 470 

Communist  Party,  San  Diego,  Logan  Heights  Unit 4684,  4687,  471 

Communist  Party,  San  Diego,  National  City  Unit 471' 

Congress  of  Industrial  Organizations 4692,  4694-469 

Cooks  &  Waitresses'  Union,  San  Diego 468 

Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation 4720,  472 

Federal  Writers'  Project 4680,  470 

Federated  Trades  and  Labor  Council,  San  Diego  County 4681 

4690,  4692^694,  469 

International  Book  Store,  San  Diego 4691,  4706,  4712,  4717,  471 

Retail  Clerks'  International  Protective  Association 469 

Retail  Clerks  Union 4693,  4695-469 

San  Diego  Public  Library 468 

San  Diego  State  College 4716,  4723,  472 

Scripps  Institution  of  Oceanography 4714,  471 

Socialist   Party 471 

Todd  Shipyards 472 

Twentieth  Century  Upholsterer,  San  Diego 468 

Unemployed  Council 4683-4687,  4698.  470 

Workers'  Alliance 4698,  4702,  470 

Workers'  Club,  San  Diego 470 

Works  Progress  Administration 4686,  470 

Young  Communist  League 4698,  4716,  472 

Young  Democrats,  San  Diego  County 470 

Young  Democrats,  Thirtieth  District,  San  Diego 470 

Young  ]VIen'.s  Christian  Association 472' 

PUBLICATIONS 

CIO  Aircraft  News ^     470: 

Common  Sense 4701,  470! 

Daily  People's  World 4698,  4699,  4701,  470? 

Daily    Worker 4698,   4699,    4701,   470i 

Labor  Leader 469: 

Los  Angeles  Examiner 472( 

Moscow  News,  Moscow,  Russia 468] 

New  Republic 4681,  46S 

The    Organizer 470! 

Trade  Union  News 4684,  4686,  4687.  4691,  4699,  470: 

Unemployed  News 468( 

Western  Worker 4698,  469f| 

O 


3  9999  05445  3Ui:u 


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