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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the San Francisco area. Hearing"

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INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
SAN FRANCISCO AREA-Part 4 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE 0?^ UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



DECEMBER 4, 1953 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
41002 WASHINGTON : 1954 




Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

MAR 1 6 1954 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Oliio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kdnzig, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Louis J. Russell, Chief Investigator 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

II 



CONTENTS 



December 4, 1953, testimony of — Pag« 

Kathleen Griffin Hee 3350 

Mildred Bowen 3351 

Joseph Melia 3353 

Paul Schlipf 3355 

Ole Fagerhaugh 3367 

Carroll Barnes 3371 

Joy Williams 3372 

Douglas Whitney Ward 3374 

Aram Attarian 3377 

Robert Black 3380 

Doris Brin Walker Roberson 3384 

James Walker Benet II 3392 

William Donald Ames 3400 

Charles Alfred Duarte 3412 

Index 3417 

za 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and Honfte of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assemhled * *  

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

« Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COlIMITTEaiS 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

RtTLE XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to malvC from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, charac- 
ter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (ii) 
the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is in.stigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attaclis the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerli of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, wliether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any jjerson 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

******* 

Rtjle X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, the following standing committees : 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcomimittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of im-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diiTusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Acivities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such meetings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
SAN FKANCISCO AREA— PART 4 



FBIDAY, DECEMBER 4, 1953 

United States House of Rei>resentatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

San Francisco^ Calif. 

public hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committe on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to adjournment, at 9: 30 a. m., in the hearing room of the 
board of supervisors, city hall, Hon. Harold H. Velde (chairman) 
presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde 
(chairman) , Donald L. Jackson, Gordon H. Scherer, and Clyde Doyle. 

Staff Members present : Robert L. Kunzig and Frank S. Tavenner, 
Jr., counsel ; William A. Wheeler and W. Jackson Jones, investigators ; 
and Juliette P. Joray, acting clerk. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. The Chair yields to the 
gentleman from California, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, in accordance with rule 10 of the rules 
of procedure for the House Commitee on Un-American Activities, 
House of Representatives, a telegram was dispatched on yesterday to 
Representative Robert Condon, extending to him the opportunity to 
appear before the committee if he so desires. This is in accordance 
with the standard procedure of the committee in notifying any indi- 
vidual wiio is adversely named during an open hearing of the com- 
mittee as Communist, Fascist, or a member of a subversive organiza- 
tion, and offering the same forum in which the allegation was made 
for the purpose of affirming or denying any statement which might 
reflect upon an individual's character. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, do you have a witness? 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes, INIr. Chairman. Kathleen Griffin Hee. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mrs, Hee. I do. 

Mr. Velde. Let the record show that for the purposes of this 
hearing I have set up a subcommittee consisting of Mr. Donald Jack- 
son, Mr. Gordon Scherer, Mr. Clyde Doyk, and myself, as chairman, 
for the purpose of this hearing. 

3349 



3350 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

TESTIMONY OF KATHLEEN GRIFFIN HEE, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 

COUNSEL, MORGAN V. SPIECER 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you state your full name, please, for the record ? 

Mrs. Hee. Kathleen Griffin Hee. 

Mr. KuNziG. I note that you are accompanied by counsel. Would 
counsel kindly state his name and address for the record? 

Mr. Spiecer. Morgan V. Spiecer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Your address, sir ? 

Mr. Spiecer. San Francisco, office addrefes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hee, when and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Hee. I was born in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, 
in 1911. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you presently a citizen of the United States ? 

Mrs. Hee. Yes, I am. 

Mr. KuNziG. When and where were you naturalized? 

Mrs. Hee. I became American citizen through the nauralization of 
my father while I was still a minor. 

Mr. KuNziG. "^^^len was that, do you know? When your father 
became a citizen ? 

Mrs. Hee. My father was naturalized in 1940. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present address, please, Mrs. Hee ? 

Mrs. Hee. I live in Berkeley. 

Mr. KuNziG. "Wliat address? 

Mrs. Hee. 2464 Prince Street. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your present employment, if you are employed? 

Mrs. Hee. I am a waitress. 

Mr. 'KuNziG. Where ? 

Mrs. Hee. At the Clairmont Hotel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hee, yesterday you were named in sworn testi- 
mony before this committee as having been a member of the Political 
Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County. 
Would you please affirm or deny that statement? 

Mrs. Hee. I didn't hear the testimony of yesterday's session. 

Mr. KuNziG. Then I shall ask you in a different way; have you 
ever been a member of the Political Affairs Committee of the Com- 
munist Party of Alameda County ? 

]Mrs. Hee. I decline to answer that question under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. KuNziG. You decline to answer on the grounds that to do so 
might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mrs. Hee. That to do so would require that I would be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. In a criminal proceeding, as the fifth amendment goes. 

Mrs. Hee. I don't believe that the fifth amendment has been re- 
stricted to simply criminal procedures. I believe it has been consid- 
ered to apply to activities of this committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Charles Blodgett, who testified here 
yesterday ? 

Mrs. Hee. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, 
Mrs. Hee? 

Mrs. Hee. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3351 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hee. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should 
be further retained under subpena ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed. Call the next witness, please. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mildred Bowen. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Miss Bowen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MILDRED BOWEN, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, LAWRENCE SPEISER 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name, please, and spell it 
for the record? 

Miss BowEK. Mildred Bowen, B-o-w-e-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see that you are accompanied by counsel, so would 
counsel please state his name and office address once again for the 
record ? 

Mr. Speiser. I am Lawrence Speiser, staff counsel of the American 
Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, 503 Market Street, 
San Francisco. 

Mr. KuxziG. It is Miss or Mrs. ? 

Miss BowEN. Miss. 

Mr. KuNziG. Miss Bowen, would you please tell us when and where 
you were born ? 

Miss BowEN. Born in Chicago, 111., August 9, 1903. 

Mr. KuNziG. Your present address? 

Miss BowEN. 604 28th Street, Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you currently employed? 

Miss BowEX. No. I am not. As I believe one of the spokesmen 
for the committee expressed the hope that the witnesses before this 
committee would be, I find myself high and dry since Tuesday morn- 
ing ; unemployed since Tuesday morning. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where were you employed j^rior to 

Miss BowEX. I would prefer not answer that question. 

Mr. KuxziG. Are you not answering on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment ? 

Miss BowEX. Yes. 

Mr. KuxziG. You refuse to answer as to your employment because 
to so do might tend to incriminate you ? 

Miss BowEX. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. In line with the policy of the committee, you are di- 
rected to answer the question. 

41002— 54— pt. 4 2 



3352 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Miss BoAVEN. I refuse to answer the question on the same <]jronnd. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever attend a meeting of the Political Affairs 
Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County ? 

(At this point Miss Bowen conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Miss BowEN. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it infringes my rights under two amendments to the Constitution, 
first amendment and the fifth amendment. 

Mr, KuNziCx. Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Blodgett yesterday ? 

Miss BowEN. I was here during most of the afternoon. I was not 
here during all of the morning. I was out of the room on one occasion 
during the afternoon yesterday. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Charles Blodgett? 

Miss BowEN. Well, that question has to do with association. I 
refuse to answer a question of that sort under the protection afforded 
me by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been chairman of the Communist Party 
of Contra Costa County as w^as testified here yesterday ? 

Miss BowEN. That question, too, I feel I am not required to answer 
because the fifth amendment guarantees that no citizen shall be 
required to be a witness against himself. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you decline to answer the question ? 

Miss BowEN. I do. 

Mr. Jackson. For the reason previously stated ? 

Miss BowEN. And for the reason I stated in my answer. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Mr. KuNzio. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time. Miss Bowen ? 

(At this point Miss Bowen conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Miss BowEN. I refuse to answer that question under the pix)tection 
afforded me by the first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Bowen. That question, too, I refuse to answer on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. It is 
obvious the witness will not cooperate. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. None. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I notice in your answers you quoted a section of the 
fifth amendment where you claimed the constitutional privilege. You 
also referred to the first amendment. Wliat portion of the first amend- 
ment do you refer to ? 

Miss Bowen. Well, in answer I want to say that I don't pretend to 
be a lawyer, and I don't intend to engage in a legal sparring. I under- 
stood that under the first amendment I am guaranteed the right of free 
speech and association. 

Mr. Doyle. Very well. 

Mr. Jackson. The Supreme Court, I might say, has found that the 
right of free speech does not connote the opposite, the right of silence, 
and that is the finding of the highest court of the land. 

(At this point Miss Bowen conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3353 



Mr. Jackson. However, as long as the other essential amendment is 
there, I see no harm in taking the hrst. 

Miss BowEN. As I said before, I am not able to engage in a legal 
battle with attorneys. I did understand that this question, however, 
is still pending before the Supreme Court. 

Mr. Jackson. It is not my intention to enter into any legal sparring, 
but merely to point out that there has been such a hnding. 

Miss BowEN. I see. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should 
be further retained under subpena ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is dismissed. Call your next witness, 
please. 

Mr. KuNziG. Ole Fagerhaugh. 

Is Mr. Ole Fagerhaugh — 0-1-e F-a-g-e-r-h-a-u-g-h — present in the 
room as required to be under subpena ? 

Mr. Chairman, would the police kindly check in the halls and see 
if Mr. Fagerhaugh is in the hall ? 

In the meantime, j\Ir. Chairman, while they are checking, with your 
permission we will take another witness. 

Mr. Velde. Fine. 

Mr. KuNziG. Joseph Melia, M-e-1-i-a. 

Mr. Velde. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about 
to give before this subcommittee to tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Melia. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MELIA, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HENEY ELSON 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your name, sir? 

Mr. Mell^. Joseph Melia. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that M-e-1-i-a ? 

Mr. Melia. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will counsel please state his name and address for 
the record? 

Mr. Elson. My name is Henry Elson, E-1-s-o-n. Mr. Counsel, are 
you interested in my office address? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Elson. I am afraid I can't answer that question, sir. It seems 
that my former emplo^yer considered my representation of Mr. Melia 
at this committee hearing inconsistent with my employment, and as 
such, terminated the same. 

Mr. KuNziG, In what county are you a member of the bar? 

Mr. Elson. Alameda County. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would the witness please continue now ? I would like 
to ask : When and where were you born, Mr. Melia. 

Mr. Melia. I was born in 1916 in New York. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your present address, sir? 

Mr. Melia. Berkeley. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your address ? 

Mr. Melm. 1617 Parker Street. 

Mr. KuNziG, Are you currently employed, and if so, where? 



3354 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Melia. I would like to answer this question, Mr. Counsel, on the 
basis that it seems to me this question is not pertinent to the inquiiy. 
If your interest is in blackmailing or blacklistin|^, that is one thing ; if 
it is pertinent to the inquiry, that is something else. 

Mr. Velde. Let me disabuse your mind that we are blackmailing 
or blacklisting any witness who appears here. We are seeking infor- 
mation relative to subversive activities in this area, and that is all. 

There is no reason why you shouldn't give your present address. 

Mr. Melia. I understand that two witnesses have already lost their 
jobs. I heard the previous witness say that she has lost her job, and 
yet you say this is pertinent. 

Mr. Velde, It certainly is pertinent. 

Mr. Melia. If it is pertinent, I refuse to answer on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Velde. Your answer will be pertinent, too. 

Mr. KuNziG. If the witness, Mr. Chairman, is refusing to answer 
where he is employed on the grounds that to do so might tend to 
incriminate him, may I respectfully request that he be directed to 
answer ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes, certainly; you are directed to answer that 

question. 

(At this point Mr. Melia conferred with Mr. Elson.) 

Mr. Melia. I have already stated my answer on that same grounds. 

Mr. Velde. You mean the refusal to answer the question? 

Mr. Melia. That is right. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Melia. I want to make it clear, however, that since you said 
this was pertinent to the inquiry, that it is on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment, and I therefore refuse to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Melia, do you know Charles Blodgett? 

Mr. Melia. I refuse to answer that question the grounds that it 
might incriminate me, and on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Blodgett testified here yesterday that he knew you 
as a member of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist 
Party of Alameda County. Have you ever been a member of that 
committee ? 

Mr. Melia. My political beliefs, I believe, are my own. I think 
that the first amendment to the Constitution provides that a person 
may have free speech and free association. I therefore refuse to 
answer that question, both on the grounds of the first amendment 
and on the grounds of the fifth amendment, on the grounds of the 
ninth and tenth amendments. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Melia. My answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Mfxia. My answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Dickson Hill, the former undercover 
agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation 

Mr. Melia. My answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Just let me finish the question, do you mmd? Do 
you know Dickson Hill, who testified here that he had been a former 

FBI agent? 
Mr. Melia. My answer is the same. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3355 

Mr. KuNziG. Undercover agent for the FBI ? 

Mr. Jackson. For the reasons previously stated? 

Mr. Melia. For the reasons previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Melia, Mr. Hill identified you and said he knew 
you to be a member of the Communist Party. Did you know Mr. Hill ? 

Mr. Melia. I have already answered that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is directed, in the line with regular policy 
of the committee, to answer that question. There is no reason that 
we can see why that would tend to incriminate you in any way, your 
acquaintanceship with any person. 

(At this point Mr. Melia conferred with Mr. Elson.) 

Mr. Melia. My refusal to answer that question is based on the fifth 
amendment ; I will not be a witness against myself. 

Mr. KuNZiG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, the record ought to show at this 
point that in addition to what our chairman has said about the pur- 
pose of this investigation, the abundant evidence shows that the Com- 
munist Party is subversive in its activities and purposes. I wish to 
reiterate again, we are not interested in anyone that may differ in 
opinion, have different political beliefs, but because it is well estab- 
lished that the Communist Party is subversive in its intents and pur- 
poses, we are interested in uncovering any person or any group of 
persons that are subversive. 

Mr. Velde. The chair concurs with the gentleman from California. 
Is there any reason, Mr. Counsel, why this witness should be further 
retained under subpena ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No reason, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed. Call your next witness, 
please. 

Mr. KuNziG. Paul Schlipf, S-c-h-1-i-p-f. 

Mr. Velde. In tlie testimony you^are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Schlipf. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL SCHLIPF, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

GEORGE ANDERSEN 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you kindly state your full name, please? 
Mr. ScHLirr. My name is Paul Schlipf. 
Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell it, please, sir? 
Mr. ScHixiPF. S-c-h-1-i-p-f. 

Mr. KuNziG. I note you are accompanied by counsel. Would coun- 
sel please state his name and office address for the record? 



3356 coMivruisTisT activities in the san francisco area 

Mr. Andersen. My name is George Andersen, 240 Montgomery 
Street, San Francisco. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present address, Mr. Sclilipf ? 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I live in Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. The street address? 

Mr. ScHLiPF. 791 Pros]Dect, 

Mr. KuNziG. When and where were you born, sir ? 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I was born in 1905 in Indiana. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where in Indiana? 

Mr. ScpiLiPF. On a farm. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is the farm near, the town, please, or city? 

Mr. ScHLiPF. Well, it is between, almost equidistance between a 
couple of towns. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now would you please name those towns, Mr. Schlipf ? 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, Goodland is one of them. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that? 

Mr. Schlipf. Goodland? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Schlipf. Goodland. 

Mr. KuNziG. G-o-o-d-l-a-n-d? 

Mr. Schlipf. G-o-o-d-l-a-n-d, Goodland. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. That is the name of the town ? 

(At this point Mr, Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the name of the town ? 

Mr. Schlipf. Yes ; and another town, Remington, I believe is a little 
closer. It is the Corn Belt district. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present employment, Mr. Schlipf ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I am a factory worker. 

Mr. KuNziG. "^Vliere are you employed ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I am employed in Oakland in an automobile plant. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been secretary of the Alameda County 
labor union, CIO? 

Mr. Schlipf. Yes, yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. "Wlien was that, sir ? 

Mr. Andersen. Wait just a moment, please. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Velde. Yes ; give the witness an opportunity to consult with his 
counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Certainly, all the time in the world. 

Mr. Andersen. Would you repeat the question, please? 

Mr. Velde. Will the reporter repeat the question, please? 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows : ""N^-lien was that, 
sir?") 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I don't recall the exact dates. It was over a period of 
time before the war and then I was away in the Army for 4 years, and 
then I was again active in that capacity' after the war. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you ever at any time the legislative assistant, to 
tlie California CIO council? 

Mr. Schlipf. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What period of time was that? 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, that was — I again don't remember the exact 
dates ; approximately 4 or 5 years ago, I would say. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3357 



Mr. KuxziG. Duriiio; the time that you were legislative assistant for 
the CIO council here in California were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, this is one of these typical questions that this 
committee has asked all over the country, and I would like to have 
an opportunity to answer it in my way as fully as I am capable of. 
I am not an attorney, but I would like to decline — I shall decline to 
answer that question on a number of grounds. 

I have thouglit about this committee and its work for a long time, 
when Dies was chairman of the committee and ever since. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, this is not responsive. I respectfully 
request that the witness be asked to answer the question either yes 
or no. 

Mr. Schlipf. I am trying to answer this question, and I am a 
citizen, and I think I have a right to answer it and not answer it in 
a loaded way the way the counsel here wants me to. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness, it has long been a policy of this committee, 
and I think the policy is right, that if you will answer the question, 
then we will give you all the time which you require to explain that 
answer. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Velde. But first of all you should answer the question. 

Mr. Schlipf. I said I decline to answer the question, and I ask that 
you listen to my reasons. I have heard this committee or members of 
this committee or read in transcript where they have told M^itnesses 
they wish to have the witnesses explain their thoughts to them, that 
they are out seeking information around the word "subversive" and 
that sort of thing. 

By the way, these words that are bandied around, I am just a simple 
soul and perhaps don't understand the meaning too much. 

Mr. Velde. So are we all simple souls, too, I assure you of that. 

Mr. Schlipf. I would dare say that the word "subversive" would 
have probably 

Mr. Jackson. This has nothing to do, Mr. Chairman, with the 
answer to the question. The witness has declined to answer, and I 
respectfully request 

Mr. Schlipf. All right, I would like to state my reasons. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I can't talk very -well here when I am constantly 
heckled and interrupted. 

Mr. Velde. We have heard this time and time again, the same old 
line. 

Mr. Schlipf. Maybe you should listen again. 

Mr. Velde. You folks who come before this committee and refuse 
to answer questions relative to subversive activities 

Mr. Schlipf. I don't like to be 

Mr. Velde. Will you please answer the question ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I shall. 

Mr. Velde. And if you do answer the question, I assure you that 
you will be given plenty of time to explain your answer. 

Mr. Schlipf. I decline to answer 

(At this point Mr. Sclilipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 



3358 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I want to give you the answer as the rules of this 
committee, the law, requires. I want to do it as a citizen. I do not 
want to disrespect anyone here or any rules that are established, but 
I would like to give my reasons fully because I think they are im- 
portant ; they are important to me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, that is not an answer ; he is declining to 
answer. 

Mr. Velde. The question is very simple. 

Mr. ScHLiPF. Yes 

Mr. Velde. It can be answered very easily yes or no. 

Mr. SciiLiPF. This question is not simple. 

Mr. Velde. Now, if you will answer the question yes or no, then 
certainly we will give you adequate time to explain your answer. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I would like to answer this question, Mr. Chairman, 
in my own, answer it fully. I have given a lot of thought to it 
in answer, the way I feel about it in my own way. Am I permitted 
to do that? 

Mr. Velde. We have a great number of witnesses who are sub- 
penaed to appear before this committee. How long will it take you? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. It will not take very long. This committee func- 
tions all year, and I am sure that you don't wish to cut off the rights 
of a citizen if he wishes to 

Mr. Velde. Certainly we don't want to cut off anyone's rights, but 
we would 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Velde. Any further disturbance will result in clearing the 
hearing room. 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer this ques- 
tion for a number of reasons. First, I believe that under the Bill 
of Rights, which is a great document, evolved over 800 years, that 
this committee does not have the right to go about the country and 
inquire into the associations and beliefs and the opinions of the elec- 
torate. I was in Germany during the war as a soldier, and I speak 
German, and I was able to speak to many citizens there, and I asked 
them repeatedly, why did they permit Hitlerism and fascism to get 
into power in Germany, and they told me it varied, that they could 
do nothing about it because everyone was afraid to speak. They said 
they always felt there was somebody looking over their shoulder; 
they could not talk to their neighbors or their associates about their 
political opinions, nor could they organize to defeat fascism. 

I had the specific experience of one man who was an electrical 
engineer who worked for me when I was more or less in charge of 
a project of rebuilding Rouen for the army of occupation, who was 
put in prison for 2 years because on his way home he told a neighbor 
that he thought Germany was going to lose the war, and a stool pigeon 
heard him and took him before one of the 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request this is not an 
answer ; this is a long tirade that we usually hear. 

Mr. Velde. There is no question about it in the Chair's mind or 
that of any member of the committee, I am sure. You are directed 
to answer the question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3359 

Mr. ScHLiPF, I will conclude, that I think it is my duty to resist 
such questions as Mr. Truman has said, to be resisted at all levels, 
and therefore I decline on the 1st amendment, where I think you have 
no right to inquire into the free association and thoughts of the 
American electorate, and on the 5th amendment where I refuse to be 
a witness against myself, and on the 9th amendment and the 10th 
amendment. 

Mr. KuNZiG. All right. Mr. Chairman, may I continue? 

Mr. Velde. Continue, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. My first question, Mr. Schlipf, was connected with 
the time when you were allegedly assistant for the CIO council in 
California. I now ask, were you at any time a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Schlipf. I refuse to answer it on the same basis, the 1st, the 
5th, the 9th and 10th amendments. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Schlipf, do you know Charles Blodgett who 
testified here yesterday ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I don't know that he testified. I wasn't here. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Do you know a Charles Blodgett ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I heard and read in the press that there was a paid 
stool pigeon here by the name of Blodgett who testified yesterday. 

Mr. Velde. That remark also will be stricken from the record. 

Mr. Jackson. Just a moment. May I ask a question ? 

Mr. Schlipf. Perhaps it is a bit emotional 

Mr. Jackson. Who paid the stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, I have had experience with stool pigeons over 
many years in the labor movement, and I always found out or assumed 
that they were — it wasn't an assumption — you found out they were 
paid in some way or other. 

Mr. Jackson. You have made a very serious charge which implicates 
the Congress of the United States and the House of Representatives 
in that you have said that the witness who appeared yesterday was 
paid. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Doyle. I think perhaps, Mr. Chairman — I will not complete my 
statement until this witness is through consulting his counsel. 

Mr. Jackson. I would like to pursue this matter, however, to its 
conclusion. 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, I assume from the way this committee has 
functioned in the past that there are no restrictions on paying these 
kind of people that come before them 

Mr. Velde. You certainly have made a very wrong assumption, 
Mr. Schlipf, and I want to assure you that fact is true. 

Mr. Schlipf. You mean to say this man is not paid for coming out 
here in any way ? 

Mr. Jackson. He is paid his transportation costs, he is not paid 

Mr. Velde. Just the same as you are paid, and you have a right to 
receive pay, 

Mr. Schlipf. I lost 2 days' wages over this thing after 444 weeks' 
layoff. 

41002 — 54 — pt. 4 3 



3360 COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Jackson. I might say the American people are in possession of 
much more information by defraying the travel expense of the other 
witnesses than they are from yours. 

The charge that the Congress of the United States has paid an in- 
former to give testimony before this committee is a reprehensible 
charge ; it has no foundation in fact. 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I think informers were paid in the Bridges case and 
in many cases. 

Mr. Jackson. I am not talking about in many cases. I am talking 
about the charge you liave just made against this committee and against 
the Congress of the United States that an informer was paid to give 
testimony. That is an unmitigated falsehood. It has absolutely no 
foundation and is characteristic of the attacks made upon this com- 
mittee by people who interests lie elsewhere than in the welfare of 
the United States of America. 

Mr. ScHLiPF. Can my attorney cross-examine this man as to whether 
he is paid or not ? 

Mr. Jackson. If your attorney wants to read the rules of procedure 
of the committee, he will find out that he cannot at this time cross- 
examine the witness. However, if you want to deny the allegations of 
the witness, you may have an opportunity in Federal court to have 
such cross-examination. 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party? And here is 
your o[)portunity to get cross-examination. 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I will answer that on the same basis that I answered 
the other questions. 

Mr. Jackson. You decline to answer for the reason it might tend 
to incriminate you ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. No, not that it would tend to incriminate me. I 
answer on the basis of the fifth amendment, that I do not wish to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Jackson. For fear of possible self-incrimination? 

Mr. Schlipf. I have the fifth amendment here. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, we are quite familiar with it ; we have heard it 
at some length. 

Mr. Schlipf. I don't see that 

Mr. KuNziG. The witness always conveniently forgets to read out 
the phrase "in criminal proceeding." That is in there, too. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.'i 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Witness, I should like to ask you with regard to 
the testimony given by Mr. Blodgett yesterday. He testified under 
oath, swore under oath, that you were a member of the Political 
Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County. 
Were you ever such a member? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I didn't hear this witness. I didn't hear him say it, 
and I would like to see the record. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, I will just ask you this way : Have you ever been 
a member of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party 
in Alameda County ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3361 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I think this is an invasion of my rights under the Bill 
of Rights, and I will answer on the same basis that I decline to answer 
under the 1st, 5th, 9th, and 10th amendments. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. What does the 10th amendment provide ? 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I have it before me. 

Mr. Jackson. No, you undoubtedly 

Mr. ScHLiPF. It says that the power is not delegated to the United 
States by the Constitution 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, I wondered whether you would, without 

Mr. ScHLiPF. I would like to finish it. 

Mr. Jackson. No ; that is all right. 

Mr. ScHLiPF. Prohibited by the States — reserved to the States 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; we are familiar with it. 

Mr. Velde. Let me ask you this question, Mr. Witness. If the Cali- 
fornia Senate committee on un-American activities were to ask you 
the question, Were you ever a member of the Political Affairs Commit- 
tee of the Communist Party 

Mr. ScHLirF. I am still a member of the people. 

Mr. Velde. Would you answer the question ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Velde. If you want the rights reserved to the State of Cali- 
fornia, certainly I think you should be entitled to appear before that 
committee and answer the question. 

Mr. Schlipf. This is an "iffy" question. What was it again? 

Mr. Velde. The question is. Have you ever been a member of the 
Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Schlipf. And you said if the State what? 

Mr. Velde. If the State senate committee on un-American activi- 
ties 

Mr. Schlipf. Or the Oakland 

Mr. Velde. Were to ask you that question, would you answer it? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, I think I had better wait until the committee 
asks me that. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, counsel for the witness is prompting 
the witness in his answers in direct contravention of the rules of 

Mr. Andersen. Counsel is not. I am advising him, and I under- 
stand that is the privilege that I have. 

Mr. Velde. Counsel has no right to put words into the mouth and 
mind of the witness. 

Mr. Andersen. My name is not Bergen, and Mr. Schlipf's name is 
not McCarthy. I don't put any words in his mouth. 

Mr. Velde. No; your name is Andersen. 

Mr. Andersen. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Regardless of what words you are putting in, they 
are coming out of him word for word as dictated by you. 

Mr. Andersen. How can you hear me consult with my client? 

Mr. Jackson. I can hear perfectly well because you have engaged in 
loud and audible conversation. 

Mr. Andersen. The other day my partner, Mr. Gladstein, wanted 
the mike cut off when he talked to his client. You assured him, Mr. 



3362 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Jackson, that anything he said was not being picked up on the micro- 
phone. 

Mr. Jackson. I am not listening to you through the mike. 

Mr. Andersen. That was a deliberate misstatement because on that 
same night over the radio I heard my partner, Gladstein, consulting 
and could hear his words, consulting with his client, the very thing 
you assured him wouldn't be done. 

Let us continue with the hearing. 

Mr. Jackson. This committee has no control over the radio facili- 
ties going out of this room. 

Mr. Andersen. They are your facilities. 

Mr. Jackson. The remarks I have heard have been remarks which 
have been directed by you in an audible tone, clearly understandable 
at this position. They have been words which have been repeated 
verbatim by the witness which I again state is in contravention and 
violation of the rules of the committee. 

Mr. Andersen. I hope it was good advice. 

Mr. Jackson. I hope it was, too. 

Mr. Velde. Counsel 

Mr. Andersen. Shall we continue? 

Mr. Velde. The rules of the committee on the rights of counsel 
are that he 

Mr. Andersen. I have read them. 

Mr. Velde (continuing). Has a right to represent his client, to 
advise with him, and of course the counsel also knows that he does 
not have the right to put words into the witness' mouth 

Mr. Andersen. Of course. 

Mr. Velde (continuing.) To tell the witness what to say in answer 
to the question. 

Mr. Andersen. You are so right. 

Mr. Velde. This question that is pending at the present time is 
this : If the California Senate committee on un-American activities — 
you have declined to answer our question on the grounds of the 10th 
amendment, and if the California committee were to ask you whether 
or not you are a member of the Political Affairs Committee of the 
Communist Party of Alameda County, would you answer that ques- 
tion, or would you refuse to answer the question ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Well, if and when any committee wants me to appear 
before them, I will answer their questions as I see fit, as I think I 
should as a citizen of the country. However, I would like to point 
out that I think these questions of associations, who you talk to, who 
your friends are, and that sort of thing are things that are reserved 
to the people and is the people's right. Perhaps to be on safe grounds 
I should say I will answer your question on the basis 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Does that answer your question ? 

Mr. Velde. Of course it doesn't. 

Mr. Schlipf. You have asked me an "iffy" question. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Suppose I answer that I will decide what to do when 
that time comes before that committee since I am not before that 
particular committee now. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3363 

Mr. Velde. The question was merely asked of you for the reason 
that "we want to get the 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Velde (continuing). The real truth about subversion, about 
the Communist Party, and other organizations, and if you would tell 
the California committee the truth about your joining the Communist 
Party, any activity on the Political Affairs Committee of the Com- 
munist Party, we wouldn't care at all. We would be very happy to 
have you appear before any other committee. 

Mr. Schlipf. I would like to make this observation : I think it is 
the word "subversion" that I don't understand. However, I believe 
that the Victorian age, in its time, would probably call the Republican 
Party subversive now. It is a relative term. I don't know what you 
are talking about. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let me ask one more question, if I may. 

Mr. Velde. All right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of any group seeking 
to overthrow the Government of the United States by force and 
violence ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. KuNziG. That ought to get away from party names, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Mr. Chairman, this committee and other McCarthy 
forces have put millions of people on the subversive list, and this is?- 
another one of those trick questions, and I am going to decline to 
answer it on the basis of my rights under the Bill of Bights, the 1st 
amendment, the 5th amendment, and the 9th and the 10th amendments. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I just state for the record, Mr. Chairman, of 
course there is nothing trick about any such question. It is asked, for 
example, of every employee, of the millions of employees of the Fed- 
eral Government and has been for many years under previous admin- 
istrations and under this one. 

I have no further questions. 

Mr. Schlipf. I was an employee of this Government for 4 years, 
fighting against fascism. 

Mr. KuNziG. When ? 

Mr. Schlipf. During the war. 

Mr. KuNZiG. What years ? 

Mr. Schlipf. 1941 — not quite 4 years, 3 years, 9 months. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right. Let me ask you this: When you were a 
soldier working and fighting for the Federal Government were you 
also at the same time a member of the Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I have already answered your question. 

Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer on the grounds it might incrimi- 
nate you ? 

Mr. Schlipf. No, on the grounds that I will not be a witness against 
myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. In a criminal proceeding. No further questions. 

Mr. Schlipf. I will not be a witness against myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. I think he has has made his position clear. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 



3364 coMJvruNiST activities in the san francisco area 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. I liave a very plain question not a trick one, I 
can assure you. It is a question any loyal American citizen could 
very well answer. Do you believe that an American citizen should 
pay his first allegiance to the Constitution of the United States, on 
which you depended for protection today, or rely on the constitution 
of the Soviet Union ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I resent the question. It is ridiculous. 

Mr. Velde. We don't care whether you resent it or not. 

Mr. Schlipf. I resent it very much. 

Mr. Velde. Answer the question. 

Mr. Schlipf. I am, of coui-se, loyal to the Constitution of the United 
States. 

Mr. Jx^cKSON. You are loyal to the Constitution of the United 
States ? 

Mr. Schlipf. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. You have never taken any step which you consider to 
be disloyal ? 

(At this point Mr, Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Jackson. That is a question. 

Mr. Schlipf. Is that a statement or a question ? 

Mr. Jackson. Have you ever taken any step which could be consid- 
ered disloyal to the United States? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Are you asking me an opinion ? 

Mr. Jackson. No, I am asking you if you have ever taken any step 
disloyal to the United States. Either you have or haven't. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. By my standards I certainly have not. But the stand- 
ards of this committee, I don't know what their standards are. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe a person can be a member of the Com- 
munist Party and still be a loyal American ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Is that my belief you are asking for ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes ; is it your contention that one can ? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I think you are trying to make this the issue, and it 
is not the issue here at all. If I could engage in a political debate 
with you, perhaps we could clarify each other's opinions on this ques- 
tion, but I don't think this is the time and place for political debate 
because I don't think that is what you are here for. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you then, in your opinion, a loyal citizen ? 

( At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen. ) 

Mr. Schlipf. Yes, definitely. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Schlipf. I have answered that question. 

Mr. KuNziG. You decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Schlipf. It is on the record, my answer. My answer is on the 
record. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have asked it again. 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. I have already answered that. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3365 

Mr. Velde. You mean you refused to answer ? 

Mr, ScHLiPF. I have given my reasons for my answer. 

Mr. Velde. All right. 

Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. I have made a note, Mr. Schlipf. You said this com- 
mittee did not have the right to go about the country. 

Mr. Schlipf. I stated that is my opinion. I said not the right to 
go about the country — to go about the country doing various things, 
causing people to lose their jobs. 

Mr. DoYLE. You have had quite a few minutes to give your reasons 
and make a statement. "Will you let me make a statement, please ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Doyle. I want to call your attention to the fact that this com- 
mittee not only has a right to go about the countiy and investigate, 
look into the subject of subversive activities, but it has the duty so 
to do, and it has the duty because your own Congress 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Doyle. Will you listen please, witness, just a minute'? 

Mr. Schlipf. I am listening, sir. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. Doyle. This committee not only has the right, but it has the 
legal duty to do just what we are doing under public law 601 passed 
in the TOtli Congress. 

I called attention yesterday to the fact that we are charged with 
that duty. Furthermore, I want to read just a few lines for your 
information: 

For the purpose of any such investigation the Committee on Un-American 
Activities or any subcommittee thereof is autliorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned : to hold such hearings to require the attend- 
ance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents ; 
and to take such testimony as it deems necessary. 

That is only part of the express authority under which we are acting 
and express duty which we have as members of this committee. 

I want the record, Mr. Chairman, to speak prett}' clearly on that 
so that those in this liearing room and any others will know that this 
committee is here not only under express statutory law, but we are 
in performance of an express statutory duty. 

You mentioned tlie CIO organization, and as long as that has been 
mentioned here in connection with you, I wish to have the record 
show whatever the fact is. I want the record to show, Mr. Chairman, 
that certainly I would feel that this committee is not by inference or 
by suggestion, either directly or indirectly — and I certainly don't, 
by inference or suggestion, have any belief that because any witness 
appears before this committee — either this or any other witness who 
happens to be a member of the CIO in California or nationally — 
that that labor organization is either directly or indirectly subversive 
or disloyal. 

j\Ir. Velde. Certainly, Mr. Doyle, the chair concurs in the opinion 
and statement of the gentleman from California. 



3366 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Doyle. I wish further to state that I am sure that the record 
shows that the CIO organization in good faith and diligently and 
vigorously has undertaken to eliminate from its official family every 
known subservise and every known Communist. That is as I under- 
stand the record to be. 

Mr. ScHERER. Will you yield just a minute, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you still an official of the CIO, in view of Mr. 
Doyle's statement? 

(At this point Mr. Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. No. 

Mr. ScuERER. I didn't get your answer. 

Mr. Schlipf. The answer was no. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you want to tell us how you left the CIO leader- 
ship? 

Mr. Schlipf. I refuse to go into the questions of my trade union 
organization here on the basis that I think this committee has no au- 
thority to go into them, and I decline to answer your question on the 
basis of the first amendment, the fifth amendment, the ninth, and the 
tenth amendments. 

Mr. SciiERER. I know what Mr. Doyle says is true. The CIO in 
my part of the country has gotten rid of — and they are to be com- 
mended — those individuals who associated 

Mr, Schlipf. I am a member of the CIO, but I will not go into 
the internal questions of my union here before this committee. I 
decline to answer questions along that line. 

Mr. Velde. Did you say you were a member of the CIO ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I say I am a member of the CIO. 

Mr. Velde. At tlie present time ? 

Mr. Schlipf. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. You are not a paid employee of the CIO, are you? 
Or let me change that. 

Mr. Schlipf. No, I explained before 

Mr. Doyle. Because I don't want to go into the internal affairs of 
the CIO, either. 

Mr. Schlipf. I work in a factory. I don't know what you mean 
then, Mr. Doyle, what you are trying to do. 

Mr. Doyle. Here is what I am trying to do : I am trying to have 
the record speak whatever the fact is. I believe the fact to be this, 
that when you participated in this testimony today you have not done 
it while in the employ of the CIO, isn't that correct ? 

Mr. ScHERER. He answered that he was no longer an official. 

Mr. DoYLE. I want to make the record clear, wliatever it is. You 
are not here in any legislative capacity for the CIO nor official of the 
CIO, are you ? 

Mr. Schlipf. I am here for only one reason, and that is because I 
was subpenaed. 

Mr. Doyle. I mean, you are not now an employee of the CIO? 

Mr. Schlipf. No, no ; I answered that question. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde, Let me say, I have no questions, but let me just make 
this observation, that your refusal here to testify before a committee 
of Congress, duly authorized to investigate subversive activities and 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3367 

propaganda, as Mr. Doyle pointed out, can only lead to the inference 
by this committee — and I am sure by the members of the Congress — 
that you must be engaged in subversive activities at the present time. 

Is there any reason why this witness should be further retained 
under subpena? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not the witness is dismissed, and call your next wit- 
ness. 

(At this point Mr, Schlipf conferred with Mr. Andersen.) 

Mr. Schlipf. Can I reply to that, Mr. Chairman ? Can I reply to 
that ? 

Mr. Velde. You are dismissed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Fagerhaugh now has arrived. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF OLE FAGERHAUGH, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

ROBERT E. TREUHAFT 

Mr. KuxziG. Would you state your full name, please, for the record ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. My name is Ole Fagerhaugh. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that, sir ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. First name, 0-1-e ; last name, F-a-g-e-r-h-a-u-g-h. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Fagerhaugh, I see you are accompanied by counsel. 
Would he please state his name and address for the record ? 

Mr. Treuhafi. My name is Kobert E. Treuhaft, attorney at law, 
1440 Broadway, Oakland. I would like to 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Fagerhaugh 

Mr. Treuhaft. Mr. Kunzig, I would like to say one word. I 
understand that at the close of my testimony yesterday a ruling was 
made that my subpena was continued. Since t consider a subpena by 
this committee a form of intimidation 

Mr. Jackson. No, yours was not extended, Mr. Treuhaft. The ac- 
tion pertained to the witness who preceded you. 

Mr. Treuhait. Is it understood then that I am no longer under 
subpena before this committee ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes ; when you were dismissed from the committee, 
you were dismissed from any further^obligation of the subpena. 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Fagerhaugh, would you state your address, please? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I live at 2285 East lOth Street, Oakland. 

Mr. Kunzig. When and where were you born, sir? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. Well, I was born in May in the year of the San 
Francisco earthquake, but I assure you I was born in Norway, so I 
couldn't have had anything to do with that. I was born in Tromso, 
Norway, T-r-o-m-s-o. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you now a citizen of the United States? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I am. 

Mr. Kunzig. Wlien did you become a citizen? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I became a citizen by virtue of my father's be- 
coming a citizen wliile I was still a minor. 

Mr. Kunzig. When did he become a citizen? 

41002—541 — pt. 4 4 



3368 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Fagerhafoh. I tliink it was in 1912, if I am not mistaken. 
Mr. KuNziG. What is your present employment, sir? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I am a warehouseman. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where are you employed ? 

(Upon order of the Chairman, certain remarks of the witness were 
ordered stricken at this point.) 

Mr. Velde. Will you answer the question, please? Wliat is your 
employment ? 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

(Upon order of the chairman, certain remarks of the witness were 
ordered stricken at this point.) 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. Velde. Now will you answer the question, Mr. Witness, or give 
your legal basis for refusing to answer the question ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. Well, I am trying to give my reasons, including 
my legal reasons for refusing to answer this question, and I would like 
to proceed to do that if the committee will permit. 

Mr. Jackson. Your opinion of the committee is not a legal reason 
for refusing to answer the questions. As a matter of fact, the com- 
mittee is not at all concerned with your opinion of it. 

Mr. Scherer. I am going to object to counsel in this case again 
telling the witness what to say. 

Mr. Treuhaft. I am going to object to the committee making in- 
ferences that are unjustified. 

Mr. Velde. The counsel should know his rights to confer with his 
witness. This is not a court of law as counsel well knows. 

Mr. Treuhaft. I am aware of that. 

Mr. Velde. This is a committee of Congress trying to ascertain the 
true facts about subversion in this country, and I ask that the counsel 
for the witness please remember that fact and act in accordance with 
the rules of the committee. 

Will the witness answer the question ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. Will you repeat the question, please? 

Mr. Kunzig. I believe if I recall correctly that the question was, 
Where are you presently employed ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I am going to continue to stand on my right not 
to answer that question because, as I say, the committee is already fully 
aware of where I am employed, and I don't see any purpose 

Mr. Scherer. Frankly I don't know where you are employed ; I have 
no idea where you are employed, and the record should show where you 
are employed. It is not on the record, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Frankly, I don't know, either, and I don't know whether 
any member of the committee knows. 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I would rather the committee enter that fact into 
the record from their own records. I am not going to be a party to 
dragging my employer into this smear campaign. 

Mr. Jackson. Does the committee know where the witness is 

employed? . o t ^ i i 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes. sir. May I answer that m 1 minute « 1 should 

like first to request that the witness be directed to answer that question, 

and then I will ask another one about the address. 

Mr. Velde. Certainly, the witness is directed to answer the question. 

"Wliere are you employed ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3369 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I am going to decline to answer that question on 
the grounds of my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG, Let me put it this way, Mr. Fagerhaugh: Are you 
employed at the Illinois Glass Co., 601 36th Avenue, Oakland, so that 
the record will state correctly ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. Same answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. You feel that to answer "Yes" or "No" to that question 
would incriminate you? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I don't feel that that answer or any answer I 
might give here might incriminate me. I have committed no crime. 
I am guilty of no crime, and I have nothing to fear. Now, my rights 
under the Constitution state that I may decline to answer this ques- 
tion on the grounds that I am guaranteed the right not to act as a 
witness against myself, and for further reasons 

Mr. Velde. In a criminal proceeding; is that not true? And you 
say you have committed no crime whatsoever. Then do you still feel 
that you are entitled to the protection of the fifth amendment, when 
you have committed no crime? 

(At this point INIr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I want to make very clear my position on this 
because what is said here today may some day be used in a court of 
law, and so I want it clearly understood the reason — my reasons for 
claiming the right not to answer this question under the fifth amend- 
ment, and I would like to 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, the witness has refused to answer on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment and has said under oath he has 
not committed any crime. I should like therefore to ask him this 
question, whether you have ever been a 

Mr. Treuhaft. Just a moment, counsel. The answer has not been 
finished, and you have interfered and interrupted. 

Mr. Velde. Comisel knows his right to advise with his client ; it is 
limited to that. 

Mr. Treuhaft. I want to consult with my client. 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. Velde. Give the counsel an opportunity to talk with the wit- 
ness. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, may I continue with the questioning? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I would like toxiontinue 

Mr. KuNziG. There is no question before the witness. 

Mr. Velde. There is no question before the witness. 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I have not finished answering my reasons. 

Mr. Velde. You have been given permission and opportunity to 
confer Avith your counsel. No question is pending, 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I still didn't finish the question that was asked. 

Mr. KuNziG. For the record, to make it clear, the previous question 
the witness declined to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 
Now I ask this question, Mr. Fagerhaugh: Have you ever been a 
member of the Communist Party 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Political Affairs Committee of Alameda 
County ? 



3370 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I am not going to answer any further questions 
until I have been given an opportunity for the record to give a com- 
plete answer to the last question that was asked of me. 

Mr. Veij)e. Well, will you give a complete answer, or will you refuse 
to answer, as you have done before ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I want to give my reasons for declining to 
answer. 

Mr. Velde. You may give your reasons, your explanation, if you 
will answer the question, but certainly not if you refuse to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Fagenhaugh. I think it should be made very clear my reasons 
for refusing to answer this question because the committee seems to 
raise the question, well, what have I to fear to answer a question like 
where do I work. Well, for the sake of the record, I want my reasons, 
I want to give my reasons for declining to answer under the fifth 
amendment because this case may come into a court of law, and I want 
it clearly understood what my reasons are. Now, I would like — — 

Mr. Velde. You say you have committed no crime. Then how can 
you sit there and claim the privileges against self-incrimination? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. Because the fifth amendment was drawn up to 
protect the innocent as well as the guilty, as you well Iniow, and 
Chief Justice Rutledge has said, and if I may quote him 

Mr. Velde. The committee is well aware of the 

Mr. FagerhL:\ugh. I am not so certain the committee is well aware, 
and for the record I would like to give a brief quote. 

Mr. Jackson. In regular order, Mr. Chairman, let us have the ques- 
tions and get the declinations or the answers. 

Mr. Velde. If the witness continues to make voluntary statements 
not in answer to the question that counsel asks and the members of 
this committee ask, I assure you that you will be removed from the 
hearing room. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. The question now before the witness which he has 
been evading, Mr. Chairman, is : Have you ever been a member of the 
Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda 
County, a very simple question to answer. 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. Pardon me, what was the question ? 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, I just wonder how you can confer all that time 
without Imowing the question, but I will repeat it for about the fourth 
time, Mr. Witness. Have you ever been a member of the Political 
Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County, as 
was testified here yesterday by Mr. Blodgett ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time whatsoever? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I likewise decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNzTG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fagerhaugh. I further decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3371 

Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. I have no further questions 

(At this point Mr. Fagerhaugh conferred with Mr. Treuhaft.) 

Mr. Velde. Except I would like to make this observation as I did 
with the previous witness : Your refusal to give this committee infor- 
mation concerning subversive activities in which you might have been 
engaged or that you might have been engaged in in this area can only 
lead us to believe that you must presently be engaged in subversive 
activities. 

Is there any reason why this witness should be further retained 
under subpena ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed, and the committee will be iir 
recess for 10 minutes. 

( Wliereupon, at 10 : 47 a. m., the hearing was recessed to reconvene 
at 10 :57 a.m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 11 : 02 a. m.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Carroll Barnes. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Barnes. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF CARROLL BARNES, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

LAWRENCE SPEISER 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state, sir, your full name for the record 
and spell it, please ? 

Mr. Barnes. Carroll Barnes, C-a-r-r-o-1-1 B-a-r-n-e-s. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see that you are represented by counsel. Would 
counsel please state his name once again for the record ? 

Mr. Speiser. Lawrence Speiser. I am the staff counsel of the Amer- 
ican Civil Liberties Union of north California; my address is 503 
Market Street, San Francisco. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Barnes, would you kindly state your present 
address, sir ? 

Mr. Barnes. 1027 9th Street, Oakland. 

Mr. KuNzTG. You were born when and where, sir ? 

Mr. Barnes. I was born July 20, 1906, in what is now the State of 
Oklahoma. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you presently employed? 

Mr. Barnes. I am not. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yesterday in sworn testimony before this committee, 
Mr. Barnes, you were identified by Charles Blodgett as a member of 
the Alameda County committee of the Communist Party. Have you 
ever been a member of such committee ? 



3372 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

* 

Mr. Barnes. Mr. Counsel, I invoke the first amendment to the Con- 
stitution, the fifth amendment to the Constitution, and the ninth and 
tenth amendments of the Constitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. You decline to answer ? 

Mr. Barnes. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. KuNziG. You were also identified by Dickson Hill, a former 
undercover agent of the FBI as a member of the Communist Party. 
Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Barnes conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Mr. Barnes. I decline to answer the question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Barnes. My answer is the same. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever know a Charles Blodgett ? 

Mr. Barnes. The answer is as previously stated, I decline to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Dickson Hill ? 

Mr. Barnes. I decline to answer on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Kunzig. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr, Sclierer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Is there any reason why this witness should be further 
retained under subpena, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Kunzig. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed, and call your next witness, 
please. 

Mr. Kunzig. I call Mr. Paul Chown. 

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request that we have the committee 
investigators and the police institute an immediate search for Mr. 
Chown. He has been around here quite sometime. It is rather inter- 
esting that he is not present now. 

Mr. Velde. That request is certainly granted. Do you have another 
witness to call ? 

Mr. Kunzig. I would appreciate very much if you would see if 
Mr. Chown is around. He made plenty of speeches out front. 

Joy Williams, please. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Williams. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOY WILLIAMS, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, 

EDWARD NEWMAN 

Mr. Kunzig. Mrs. Williams, will you please state your full name 
for the record ? 
Mrs. Williams. My name is Joy Williams. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would counsel please identify himself for the record? 
Mr. Newman. My name is Edward Newman, N-e-w-m-a-n. 
Mr. Kunzig. And your oflSce address, sir ? 



COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3373 

Mr. Newman. My office address is at 967 B as in "Baker" Street in 
Hayward, 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Williams, when and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Williams. I was born in Oakland, Calif. 

Mr. KuNziG. And when ? 

Mrs. Williams. 1913. 

Mr. KuNziG. Whait is your present address, please ? 

Mrs. Williams. I live in Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. And at what address in Oakland ? 

Mrs. Williams. 5646 Marywood Drive. 

Mr. KuNziG. I wonder if you could perhaps move just a little closer 
to that microphone. It is very difficult to hear. 

Are you employed, Mrs. Williams? 

(At this point Mrs. Williams conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mrs. Williams. I would like to make my position clear before this 
committee. I think perhaps it would save the committee time, and 
I would sincerely like to be as little misunderstood as possible. The 
question is, am I employed ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mrs. Williams. As I have already stated, I was born in Oakland, 
Calif., and I have always been very proud of that citizenship with 
whicli I was born, and of the Constitution of the United States and the 
rights that it guarantees its citizens, including me, and I have felt all 
my life very strongly on the question of freedom of speech and the 
right of people to peacefully assemble, the freedom from 

Mr. Velde. May I interrupt and say this, that if you are proud of 
your citizensliip, wowld you be helpful to this committee and tell this 
committee whether or not you are employed at the present time ? 

Mrs. Williams. Yes, I am coming to that. It is part of theques- 
tion that I am answering, and I will be very brief, and I think in the 
long run it will save the committee time on this question. I am 
answering it. 

On the question of my beliefs and my sincere confidence which has 
been growing, in the necessity for defending this Constitution, and 
particularly the first and fifth amendments, I feel it is my duty as sl 
citizen to defend it. I look upon this questioning this way, and this 
is why I must decline to answer questions about my beliefs, and in 
the future, if you should ask me any, other people's beliefs and specu- 
late on these matters, and I claim 

Mr. Velde. The request as to the matter of your employment has 
nothing to do with your beliefs ^ 

Mrs. Williams. Of course this is a very difficult thing to think 
through completely, but I think the question of whether or not I am 
employed — I claim the fifth amendment on this. 

Mr. Velde. Let me ask you, are you a member of the Communist 
Party? 

(At this point Mrs. Williams conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mrs. Williams. There are two questions before me. I was just 
finisliing answering the one on employment. 

Mr. Velde. The other question has been retracted and stricken from 
the record. 

Mrs. Williams. It has ? 

Mr. Velde. By the order of the Chair. The question now pending 
is, Are you a member of the Communist Party at the present time? 



3374 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mrs. Williams. This is included in my previous remarks. I must 
answer such a question by appealing to the fifth amendment and my 
rights to not say anything which might be construed as incriminating 
me. 

Mr. Velde. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Williams. This is the same kind of question, and I must rely 
on my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Let me make this clear, you are under no compul- 
sion. You say you must rely on it. Do you so rely ? Do you decline 
to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment? 

(At this point Mrs. Williams conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mrs. Williams. Yes, I decline on the same grounds stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well ; thank you. 

Mr. Velde. Do you have further questions, Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Velde. Is there any reason why this witness should be retained 
under subpena? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is dismissed, and you may call your 
next witness. 

Mr. KuNziG. Doug Ward, W-a-r-d. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee, do you solemnly swear that you wiJl tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Ward. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DOUGLAS WHITNEY WAED, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, LAWRENCE SPEISER 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name, please, for the 
record ? 

Mr. Ward. My name is Douglas Whitney Ward. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let the record show that Mr. Speiser is again attor- 
ney. We recognize him as counsel previously for other witnesses 
here today. 

Mr. Ward, what is your present address, sir ? 

Mr. Ward. 827 16th Street, Sparks, Nev. 

Mr. KuNziG. When and where were you born, Mr. Ward? 

Mr. Ward. I was born in Fort Scott, Kans., on the 28th day of 
October in 1910. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Wliere are you presently employed, sir? 

(At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Mr. Ward. I wish to decline to answer that question, Mr. Counsel, 
on the grounds of the first and fifth amendment, and to state at the 
same time that I propose to refuse on the same grounds to answer any 
other questions concerning employment. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, the witness states that he wishes to 
decline. Does he so decline to answer ? 

Mr. Ward. I do, yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3375 

Mr. KuNziG. In order then to get the record straight, Mr. Chair- 
man, I wish to ask this question in tliis way : Are you presently em- 
ployed by the Southern Pacific Railroad in Sparks, Nov.? 

Mr. Ward. Same answer, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer that question upon the grounds 
that to answer where you are employed might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Ward. Yes, sir; that is correct. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Working for the Southern Pacific Railroad can be 
Incriminating? 

Mr. Ward. I will stand on my previous answer. 

Mr. KuNziG, Now, you were identified as a former Communist 
Party member during testimony j^esterday by Charles Blodgett. 
Have you ever been, Mr. Ward, a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ward. I decline to answer that question, also, Mr. Counsel, on 
the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ward. I am not. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1952 ? 

(At this point Mr. W^ard conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Mr. KuNziG. You can save a little time if you will give us the dates 
because you must know I am going through them all. 

Mr. Ward. At this time, Mr. Counsel, I wish to decline to answer 
that question on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments, and 
I do intend also to refuse on the same grounds to answer any other 
questions about political affiliations or associations. 

Mr. Jacksox. You say you wish to decline. Do you so decline? 

Mr. Ward. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let me get this straight. You say that you are not 
now a member of the Communist Party, but when asked whether you 
were a member of the Communist Party in 1952, you refused to answer ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Ward. Mr. Counsel, I am sorry that I don't remember exactly 
how the original question about that that you asked me was phrased, 
but if you will repeat the original question that I 

Mr. KuNziG. I think the record stands clear for itself. Were you 
a member of the Communist Party yesterday ? 

(At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Mr, Ward. Well, that, Mr. Counsel, I think is the same type of ques- 
tion that I declined to answer before, and consequently I must now 
decline to answer that question also pn the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that we are to understand that you are not now a 
member of the Communist Party, but as to whether you were a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party yesterday you refuse to answer on the 
grounds of the fiftli amendment, is that right? 

(At this point Mr. Ward conferred witli Mr. Speiser.) 

Mr. \V^\RD. I stand on my previous answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Just let me ask one further question. Do you know 
Charles Blodgett? 

Mr. Ward. I will decline to answer that question also, Mr. Counsel^ 
on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments and in so doing state 
my intention of similarly declining to answer any other questions 
about associations with persons. 

41002— 54— pt. 4 5 



3376 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. KmsrziG. Then let us get away from persons and ask you : Have 
you ever been a member of any group seeking to overthrow the Gov- 
ernment of the United States bj force and violence ? 

(At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) 

Mr. Ward. I will decline to answer that question also on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. One further question: Have you ever been political 
editor of the Peoples World, a newspaper here in this county? 

Mr. Ward. Well, that, I believe, Mr. Counsel, is a matter of asso- 
ciations, and since I have already stated my intention to do so, I will 
reiterate at this time that I decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. KuNZTG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. That might, in your opinion, be a matter of association, 
but it has to do with your employment also. I want the record to 
show at this point, at the suggestion of the gentleman from California, 
Mr. Doyle, that the committee has a duty imposed upon it to ascertain 
the extent of infiltration and subversion, particularly at the present 
time, of the Communist Party into various fields of employment. 
The reason that you are asked concerning your employment is to 
enable this committee to determine the extent of infiltration of sub- 
versive activities into the various industries, various fields of em- 
ployment. 

Do you have a question, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. DoTLE. I wish to say to the gentleman that I am assuming that 
you have withdrawn from the Communist Party in utmost good faith 
and because you are opposed to its teachings. On that assumption, 
therefore, I wish to urge you to now be at least as active against the 
teachings of the Communist Party as I assume you were when you 
were a member of it. I am inferring from your testimony that there 
was a time when you were a member of it. 

Mr. Ward. I don't believe that is a reasonable inference, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. DoTLE. • Well, I wanted to state frankly to you that to me it is 
a reasonable inference. If I am an unreasonable man in that par- 
ticular, then I will have to stand as unreasonable on that point, but 
I wanted you to be aware of the fact that I infer from the nature of 
your testimony that while you are not a Communist today, you may 
have been a week from today, but whatever the fact is, you know, 
and I therefore want to urge you, as I do quite frequently any man 
who ever was a Communist, to be at least as active against the teach- 
ings of the Communist Party, you having withdrawn from the party 
or not today being a member, again on the assumption that you were 
a Communist, as when you were a member of the party. 

I don't mean to discredit your testimony at all, sir. I just am 
inferring that there was a time when you were a Communist Party 
member, and I therefore want to urge you to be as active against the 
teachings of the Communist Party from now on as perhaps you were 
in favor of the teachings of the Communist Party if and when you 
were a member of that party. 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3377 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should 
be further retained under subpena ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is dismissed, and you may call your 
next witness. 

Mr. KuNziG. I wish to make an announcement to some of the wit- 
nesses who have suggested or given the impression that they are not 
going to accept witness fees. 

I wish, of course, to make it perfectly clear that under the laws and 
regulations they have every right to fees to which they are entitled, 
and they have only to step up here to the clerk and make the arrange- 
ments. That is there for every one of them. If they so decline or 
do not wish, that is their own action, of course. 

Mr. Velde. Thank you, counsel, for making that observation. 

Mr. KuNziG. Aram Attarian. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Attarian. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ARAM ATTARIAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

EDWARD NEWMAN 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Attarian, would you state your full name for the 
record, please ? 

(At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mr. KuNziG. And will you kindly spell it so we get it right? 

The witness is apparently conferring with counsel. 

Mr. Attarian. Ibegyourpardon, will you repeat that, please? 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your name, please, and spell it ? 

Mr. Attarian. Aram, A-r-a-m, Attarian, A-t-t-a-r-i-a-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would counsel state his name again for the record ? 

Mr. Newman. My name is Edward Newman, Hayward, Calif. 
Will the committee counsel identify himself for the record? 

Mr. KuNziG. I would be delighted to. I think the name is on the 
record. My name is Robert L. Kunzig, counsel for the House Com- 
mittee of Un-American Activities, member of the bar of Philadelphia 
County. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would the witness kindly give his address, please ? 

Mr. Attarian. 24622 Traynor Court, Hayward, Calif. 

ISIr. Kunzig. When and where were you born, Mr. Attarian ? 

Mr. Attarian. November 7, 1915, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you employed, sir ? 

(At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mr. Attarian, May I ask a point of information before the ques- 
tioning begins ? I would like 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Chairman, I have asked a very simple question : 
Is the witness employed, and if so, would he state where he is 
employed ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes, if the witness will answer the question you may 
explain your answer. 

Mr. Attarian. I beg your pardon. 



3378 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Velde. The question is very simple. If the witness will answer 
the question, then you might explain your answer, but until you do 
answer the question the committee cannot reasonably 

Mr. Attarian. Well, I want to discover whether I have the privi- 
lege of asking a point of order. In other words, before the first ques- 
tion is asked, before these questions are asked, I would like to 
know 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness, you have been subpenaed here, have you 
not? 

Mr. Attarian. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. You have been subpenaed as a witness who might pos- 
sibly have some information concerning subversive activities. Your 
capacity now is as a witness who can give information to this com- 
mittee, not to ask questions of the committee. 

Now, will you please answer the question that is proposed to you 
by counsel ? 

Mr, Attarian. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. I will ask you again : Are you presently employed, 
and if so, would you please state where ? 

Mr. Attarlvn. I refuse to answer this question on the grounds 
that my answer will tend to cause me to bear witness against myself 
under the provisions of the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. I will ask it this way, Mr. Chairman, so our record is 
straight : Are you employed by Perry's Studio, 9334 East 14th Street, 
Oakland, Calif.? 

Mr. Attarian. I stand on my previous answer, refusal to answer, 
decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr, KuNziG, That employment by this Perry's Studio would tend 
to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Attarian, I stand on my previous answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Attarian, yesterday Mr. Blodgett, in testifying 
under oath before this committee, said that he had been a member of 
the Encinal Club of the Communist Party, and as a matter of fact 
he had been chairman of this unit. Now, particularly, Mr, Attarian, 
since this is a neighborhood unit, a group unit of the Communist Party, 
and since it was testified that you were also a member, we would like to 
ask you if you won't help and cooperate with this committee, tell us 
whether you were a member of that group of the Communist Party, 
and then tell about that unit, what you know about it? 

Mr. Attarian. This questian appears to be a compounded question. 

Mr, Kunzig. I will ask it first simply : Were you a member of the 
Encinal Club of the Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr, Newman.) 

Mr. Attarian. I am going to answer this question, or decline to 
answer it, as I see fit 

Mr, KuNziG, Would you please do so, then ? 

Mr, Attarian, I assume that I have a certain amount of privilege 
in answering this question in my own way ; am I correct ? 

Mr, Jackson. After you answer it, you can explain your reasons for 
so answering it. 

Mr, Attarian. I decline to answer the question for two reasons: 
One, it is not my intention to cooperate with this committee. My 



COMMUNIST ACTR-ITIES IX THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3379 

reasons for not wanting to cooperate are twofold : One, a very strong 
personal feeling; secondly, my rights under the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution. My personal feeling 

Mr, KuxziG. Xow, he answered, I believe, that he will not answer ; 
he refused to answer on the gi'ounds of the fifth amendment, that his 
answer may in some way tend to incriminate him. 

Mr. Attarian. I didn't say that. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are refusing to answer on the gromids of the 
fifth amendment; is that correct? 

Mr. AiTARiAx. That is what I said. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. What portion of the fifth amendment are you relying 
on? 

(At this point ]Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mr. Attarian. The entire portion of it. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you also relying on that portion of it which, 
deals with possible self-incrimination in a criminal action? 

(At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mr. Attarian. I am relying on the entire fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well, you are standing on the whole amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, 
sir, at any time ? 

(At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) 

Mr. Attarian. I also decline to answer this question on the previous 
grounds stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Attarian. Same answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you know Charles Blodgett? 

Mr. Attarian. I decline to answer this question on the ground of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. No, I have no questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Is there any reason why this witness should be further 
continued under subpena ? 

Mr. Ktjnzig. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is dismissed. 

At this point I now appoint Mr. Doyle and Mr. Jackson as chair- 
man of a subcommittee for the purposes of the continuing hearings. 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Robert Black, 

(Representatives Harold H. Velde and Gordon H. Scherer left the 
hearing room at this time.) 

Mr. Jackson. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are 
about to give to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Black. I do. 



3380 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT BLACK, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HUGH B. MILLER 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Would you state your name, please, for the record? 

Mr. Black. My name is Robert Black. 

Mr. KuNziG. VVould counsel kindly state his name and office? 

Mr. Miller. Hu^h B. Miller, attorney at law, 1095 Market Street, 
San Francisco, Calif. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Black, would you give us your present address? 

Mr. Black. 1218 34th Avenue. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where is that ? 

Mr. Black. Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. When and where were you born, Mr. Black ? 

Mr. Black. I was born in Dundee, Scotland, January 12, 1915. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you presently a naturalized citizen? 

Mr. Black. I became a citizen through my father. 

Mr. KuNziG. When did your father become a citizen, if you can 
recollect ? 

Mr. Black. Around 1930, 1931. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you presently employed ? 

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) 

Mr. Black. Well, I am going to have to refuse to answer that 
question, and I have a number of reasons why. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let us make it clear, you don't have to refuse. 

Mr. Black. I do refuse to answer that question for the reasons I 
am going to state now : First, on the grounds that this committee is 
violating my rights and the rights of all Americans which are guaran- 
teed by the first amendment to the Constitution, that is, the right of 
association, the right to belong to organizations of one's own choosing, 
freedom to speak one's own mind, read books, magazines, newspapers, 
and so forth, the right to peaceful assembly to petition the Govern- 
ment for a redress of grievances. 

This committee is inquiring into a field where it has no right to 
legislate. 

Mr. Jackson. Excuse me. 

Mr. Black. That is an area of opinions, ideas, and the like. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you reading from a prepared statement, sir? 

Mr. Black. It is just a few notes I have. 

Mr. Jackson. A few notes. Would you furnish them to the com- 
mittee at the conclusion of your testimony, sir ? 

Mr. Black. Certainly. 

Mr. Jackson. And if it develops to be a prepared statement, the 
committee will take it under its advisement as to the inclusion into 
the record in accordance with the rules of the committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you refuse to answer this question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment? You are going to get to the fifth amend- 
ment eventually, so would you mention it if you desire to ? 

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) 

Mr. KuNziG. The question is. Where are you employed? 

Mr. Black. I am refusing, and I insist on being able to give all my 
reasons for doing so. (Voluntary statement made by the witness was 
ordered stricken from the record by the chairman.) Therefore I 
invoke the fiftli amendment and any other provisions of the Consti- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3381 

tution that will protect me and other American people from 
inquisitions. 

Mr, Jackson. Is that the end of your statement, sir ? 

Mr. Black. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. May I have a copy of your statement ? 

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) 

Mr. Jackson. Will the reporter please read back the statement 
made by the witness ? 

(Whereupon the reporter read the statement.) 

Mr. Jackson. That is sufficient. 

This is quite obviously a prepared statement, prepared in advance 
of the hearings and read in violation of the rules of the committee. 
Rule 9 of the committee states : 

Any witness desiring to make a prepared or written statement for the record 
of proceedings in executive or public session shall file a copy of such statement 
for the counsel of the committee within a reasonable period of time in advance 
of the hearing at which the statement is to be presented. All such statements 
so received which are relevant and germane to the subject of the investigation 
may, upon approval at the conclusion of the testimony of the witness, by a 
majority vote of the committee or subcommittee members present, be inserted 
in the official transcript of the proceedings. Footnote: Statements which take 
the form of personal attacks by the witness upon the motives of the committee, 
the personal character of any Members of the Congress or of the committee staff 
in statements clearly in the nature of accusation are not deemed to be relevant 
nor germane. 

In light of that and in light of the fact that this is quite obviously 
a prepared statement, it will be received and considered for inclusion 
in the record. In the interim it will be stricken from the record. 

Mr. Miller, May the record show what Congressmen and how 
many are present in the room at the present time ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, The full subcommittee of two appointed by the 
chairman before his departure is present, a subcommittee consisting of 
Congressman Doyle, Congressman Jackson, a duly constituted sub- 
committee of the House Committee on Un-American Activities under 
the rules of the House of Representatives. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel, 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Black, are you a printer for the Oakland Tribune ? 

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) 

Mr, Black. I think I have already answered that question, and if 
not, I want to make it clear that I am standing again on the same 
reason I gave, 

Mr, Jackson. I think at this point I should point out to counsel 
that in answer to the first question, which was dealt with by this 
statement, that the last part of it dealt with the inclusion of the fifth 
amendment. I call that to counsel's attention for the protection of the 
witness because in striking this, if it is not included by the committee 
action, it will have the effect of leaving no refusal on the first question 
answered. 

Mr. Miller. I take it in striking the answer then you strike the 
question, 

Mr. Jackson, I think perhaps you had better repeat the questions 
in order that the declinations may be entered in the record, 

Mr. KuNziG, I will repeat the question. The first question was, are 
you presently employed ? 

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) 



3382 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Black. I thought I had answered the question, but if not, I 
refuse to answer on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, the next question, and that is, are you employed 
as a printer for the Oakland Tribune? 

Mr. Black. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I ask, do you feel that employment by the Oak- 
land Tribune incriminates you ? It is difficult to see how employment 
by the Tribune would incriminate anyone. 

Mr. Black. I don't think that my feelings are pertinent to the in- 
quiry of this committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. But you refuse to answer as to whether you are em- 
ployed by the Oakland Tribune because to do so might tend to incrimi- 
nate you, is that right ? 

Mr. Black. I refuse to answer that question or any question re- 
garding my employment, people whom I associate with or anything 
else under the grounds of the fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. KuNZiG. I have here, INIr. Chairman, the testimony taken in ex- 
ecutive session before the House Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties, testimony of Bertha Grover, G-r-o-v-e-r, who under oath testified 
that she had worked as an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation. 

That was in the Communist Party, of course. 

When asked the following question, her answer was given in this 
fashion : 

Question. Will you identify for the committee people with whom you met as 
members of the Communist Party during your membership in the southwest 
Berkeley group? 

Answer. Robert Black, Gladys Black ; southwest Berkeley, Willie Laughery, 
Ozzo, 0-z-z-o, Marrow. ]M-ar-r-o-w, Ray Thompson, Ray Halpern, H-a-1-p-e-r-n, 
Calvin Batiste, B-a-t-i-s-te, Marie Calloway, C-a-1-l-o-w-a-y, Warner Calloway, 
Fred Williams, Herb and Bernice Kalmau, 

Then she goes on and says, 

No, Teresa, not Bernice. Andrew Mays, M-a-y-s, Freddie Walker, Frank Parsons, 
Katrina and Jack Mauley. They were in that club, but I can't remember the 
person 

Then as to the present witness, Robert Black, with regard to mem- 
bership in the Southwest Berkeley Club of the Communist Party. 

I ask you : Have you ever been a member of the Southwest Berke- 
ley Club of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Black. I have already stated I will not answer any questions 
regarding any associations 1 have had in the past or present, and I 
am invoking the first and fifth amendments again. 

Mr. Jackson. And decline to answer the question? 

Mr. Black. And certainly decline to answer the question. 

Mr. KuNziG. The witness, Bertha Grover, then was asked further 
questions, and she answered — 

I was transferred to the Whitney Club, the Anita Whitney Clnb. 

Question. Durins your membership in the Anita Whitney Club will you identify 
those persons with whom you met as members of the Communist Party? 

Answer. Robert Black, Gladys Black, Roger Capelle, C-a-p-e-1-l-e, Frances Ca- 
pelle. Carl Hanson, Bernice Kalman, K-a-1-m-a-n, Eugene Kalman, Herb Kalman, 
Ted Kalman, Jim McFadden, Edith Sharpe, Leila Thompson, Gertrude Warwick, 
W-a-r-w-i-c-k, Dick Younce, Y-o-u-n-c-e, Nat Vanish, Ann Yanish, Ruth McGovney 
May of the southwest Berkeley group, Eleanor Smith, Joe Eisler, E-i-s-1-e-r, 
Marge Eisler, Elizabeth Barlow, B-a-r-1-o-w, Edward Barlow, Gertrude Warwick, 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3383 

Hazel Peters, Dave Blodgett, Charlie Busk, B-u-s-k. Hazel Peters is the one 
who was out getting subscriptions for the National Guardian. 

I now ask you, based upon this sworn testimony by an undercover 
agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, have you ever been a 
member of the Anita Whitney Chib of the Communist Party ? The 
committee will, of course, recall that Charles Blodgett testified yes- 
terday 

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) 

Mr. KuNziG (continuing). That this witness was a member of the 
Anita Whitney Club. 

Mr. Black. I have already given the reasons to refuse to answer 
that question. I stand on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have two more questions. Have you ever been a 
member of the Communist Party, any group whatsoever, at any time? 

Mr. Black. I refuse to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr, KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Black. Same reasons ; same answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is excused. 

Mr. KuNziG. Bernice Kalman. 

Is Bernice Kalman in the room? If so, would she please come 
forward ? 

Miss Kalman. Before being sworn, I would like to tell you that 
my attorney is not here at present. He was unable to come this morn- 
ing, and he must have misunderstood the directions. He is not here, 
and I would like to be represented by counsel. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Under the circumstances I think this 
should beset over until eitlier this afternoon or tomorrow. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you be back this afternoon. Miss Kalman ? 

Miss Kalman. Yes ; I will. 

Mr. KuNziG. Postpone this for the moment because counsel is not 
present. Will your counsel be able to be present this afternoon ? 

Miss Kalman. I think he will. 
, Mr. Jackson. Will you make an effort to get in touch with him? 

Miss Kalman, I will try. 
) Mr. Jackson, Thank you. Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Marjorie Canright. 

Mr. Jackson. Will an officer check in the hallway to see if the wit- 
ness is here ? 

Mrs. KoBERsoN. The witness has asked me to inform the committee 
that her attorney, Mr. Brodsky, expected her to be called this 
afternoon. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you kindly identify yourself ? 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. I am Doris Brin Walker, attorney at law. 

Mr. Jackson. And her lawyer? 



3384 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mrs. RoBERSON. Her lawyer is Mr. Brodsky, and I believe that he 
was informed by Mr. Tavenner or this gentleman that Mrs. Canright 
would be called this afternoon. 

Mr, Jackson. I see. 

Mr. KuNziG. We will gladly put it off until this afternoon if counsel 
cannot be present. 

Mr. Jackson. Will you please be back at 2 o'clock this afternoon. 

Mr. KuNziG. Doris Walker Roberson. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about 
to give to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DORIS ERIN WALKER ROBERSON, ACCOMPANIED 
BY HER COUNSEL, GEORGE OLSHAUSEN 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your name, please ? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. The name under which I practice law is Doris Brin 
Walker. I was widowed in 1951 and remarried last year. As a result 
of that marriage my married name is now Roberson, D-o-r-i-s B-r-i-n 
W-a-1-k-e-r R-o-b-e-r-s-o-n. 

May I inquire your name again, please, counsel? I didn't get it 
the fii^st time. 

Mr. KuNziG. My name is Robert L. Kunzig, K-u-n-z-i-g, counsel 
for the committee, member of the bar of Philadelphia County, Pa. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. Thank you, Mr. Kunzig. 

Mr. Kunzig. All right. Now, Mrs. Roberson, would you please state 
your address ? 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. 1268 Clayton Street, San Francisco. 

Mr. Kunzig. And you are a member of the bar of San Francisco 
County ? 1 

Mrs. Roberson. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Kunzig. When were you born, Mrs. Roberson ? 

Mrs. Roberson, I was born in Dallas, Tex., on April 20, 1919. 

Mr. Kunzig. There was testimony under oath before this committee 
by Mr. Hill the other day that he knew you as a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mi's. Roberson. May I delay my answer until this photographer 
finishes ? I can't see, to tell you the truth, because of the flashbulbs. 

Mr. Kunzig, may I point out that I have been rather more fortunate 
than Mr. Treuhaf t. After asking four lawyers to represent me, 1 was 
fortunate enough to obtain extremely competent counsel, and I would 
like my counsel to be on the record. 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes, would counsel please identify himself ? 

Mr. Olshausen. George Olshausen, 0-1-s-h-a-u-s-e-n. 

Mr. Kunzig. And your office address ? 

Mr. Olshausen. I have no office. 

Mr. Kunzig. Of what county are you a member of the bar? 

Mr. Olshausen. San Francisco. 

Mr. Kunzig. Thank you, sir. 

Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, is the ques- 
tion, 

Mrs, Roberson, Which is the question, Mr. Kunzig? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3385 

Mr. KuNziG. I will ask you : Have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. You know, it is very interesting, Mr. Kunzig. I 
was present during Mr. Hill's testimony and listened with great 
interest. I wonder if you noticed that he identified my name or a 
portion of my name, Doris Walker Roberson, as some person he 
knew during the period he said he was in the Communist Party; 
that is, the period 1945-49. As I just got through informing the 
committee, my name did not become Roberson until 1952. 

Mr. Jackson. That is hardly responsive to the question. There is 
a question pending. 

Mrs. Roberson. I see no real reason why I should match my ver- 
acity against a witness who claims he knew me under a name that I 
didn't have for a period of some 3 to 7 years before I had it. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. All that is necessary is for you to state 
that the identification is false. 

Mrs. Roberson. I don't intend to match my veracity with a witness 
of the caliber of Dickson Hill, a man who not only testified he knew 
me under a name I didn't have, but who had to be led through practi- 
cally all of the testimony that he did give. 

Mr. Kunzig. Then I will just 

Mrs. Roberson. A practice frowned on by the courts, incidentally. 

Mr. Kunzig. I will ask you a very simple question once again which 
obviously you will probably not answer. Have you ever been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Roberson. jNIr. Kunzig, and members of the committee, in 
view of the announced purpose of this committee and in view of the 
kind of testimony that we have had here the last few days, particu- 
larly yesterday, I wouldn't tell this committee if I was a member of 
the Republican or Democratic Parties. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee is not asking you about your political 
affiliation. We are asking you whether or not you were ever a member 
of an international conspiracy which seeks the destruction of this 
country. It is quite a different thing, and I wish you would answer. 
Do you decline to answer the question now pending? 

Mrs. Roberson. Oh, yes, I do — Mr. Jackson, it is ? Yes, I definitely 
do, Mr. Jackson. 

;NIr, Jackson. And upon what grounds ? 

]Mrs. Roberson. Well, I have a number of grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Mrs. Roberson. Are you an attorney, Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No, I am not. 

Mrs. Roberson. Well, Mr. Kunzig, as an attorney, will recognize 
the importance of stating all of the legal grounds for a position. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, they are important. Let us get to them. 

Mrs. Roberson. I will ; I will state my legal grounds. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you, just for the sake of variety, state the 
fifth amendment first instead of last ? 

Mrs. Roberson. I think I will state them in the order in which I 
have prepared myself to state them. Of course, I knew that tliis 
question would be asked. 

Mr, Kunzig. Oh, you did? 

Mrs. Roberson. I prepared myself in somewhat the same manner 
that a lawyer prepares himself for a legal argument. 



3386 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Mr. Counsel, let the witness proceed to 
give lier answer. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. First of all, article I of the Constitution assigns 
to the Congress tlie legislative function of government. As you know, 
article II assigns the executive function to the executive branch of 
government; and article III assigns the judicial function to the 
judiciary. 

Under article I the Congress and committees like this one are lim- 
ited to legislative functions. This committee has already announced 
that its function is not legislative, when, in the statement that a 
spokesman for the committee made to the San Francisco Examiner 
on November 2, the committee stated that its purpose was to identify 
and in effect isolate or, I believe the phrase was, leave high and dry 
the hundred top Communists in this area. 

I gather from tliis that the purpose of the committee is to dictate 
to the people of the Bay area with whom to associate and whom to 
ostracize, and this is not 

Mr. Jackson, ilgain your assumptions are not legal reasons. 

Mrs, RoBERsoN. This is not a legislative function, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. One does not have to be an attorney to know that the 
reasons you are giving are not legal reasons. They are opinions of 
your own ; they are assumptions that you have made. 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. That isn't true, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Will you proceed. 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. I heard Mr. Kunzig ask Mr. Black, I believe it 
was — one of the earlier witnesses a moment or so ago — what his occu- 
pation was, and when Mr. Black refused to answer, invoking the fifth 
amendment as he had a legal right to do, Mr. Kunzig then asked him 
if it wasn't true that he was a printer employed by the Oakland 
Tribune. 

Now, if that isn't an attempt to isolate and to do harm and grave 
personal injury to people in this area, I never heard one in my life, 
and that is not a legislative function, and it is one of the legal grounds 
for my refusing to answer this question. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well, you are 

Mrs. RoBERSoN. I have other legal grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well ; if you will state your legal grounds for 
answering and not your assumptions 

Mrs. RoBERSoN. i intend to do so. The first ground was legal, and 
it was certainly not an assumption. 

It is clear to me in this regard, by the way, that your purpose in 
bringing me here is certainly not to further any proposed legislation 
that may or may not come from this committee ; I believe the record 
will show that this committee has proposed no legislation which has 
been adopted, but rather 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Mr. Chairman, just a minute. Let us get some facts 
before this committee. There is a law of 1950, the present law of this 
land, the Internal Security Act of 1950, which was based upon years 
of study in this committee. 

Mr. Jackson. The Smith Act, of which the Communists are so fond, 
came in large part out of the legislative recommendations of this com- 
mittee, so if your other assumptions are as ill-founded as your last 
statement, it would be very helpful if you would proceed to those 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3387 

things on "wliich there is no question, such as your constitutional 
j3rivileges. 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. I understood the Smith Act was passed in 1940, 
but 

Mr. KuNziG. That is correct. 

Mrs. EoBERsoN. I would like to raise another objection. 

Mr. Jackson. No, we are not interested in your objections. We 
are interested in obtaining from you the legal reasons 

Mrs. KoBERSON. I misstated myself, Mr. Jackson. I forgot my- 
self. The atmosphere is just enough like that of a court so that I 
used the word "objection" when I intended to state another legal 
reason, and I beg the committee's pardon. 

(At this point Mrs. Roberson conferred with Mr. Olshausen.) 

Mr. Jackson. Will you state one legal reason for your refusal to 
answer ? 

Mrs. Roberson. I will state one right now I had not noticed. My 
counsel just called to my attention that there is not a quorum of this 
committee present. 

Mr. Jackson. Let it be put in the record again, Mr. Velde, upon 
his departure from this room, and in accordance with the rules of 
the House of Representatives, designated a subcommittee of two, con- 
sisting of Mr. Doyle and myself, to conduct the hearings this morn- 
ing. It is a perfectly legal subcommittee and has been so held in 
many court actions. The subcommittee was designated as a sub- 
committee of two, I wish you would get to the gist of your objections, 
if it is not asking too much. 

Mrs. Roberson. May my exception to your ruling be noted for 
the record ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, your exception is noted. 

Mrs. Roberson. Thank you. 

Not only has this committee by its own statements and actions 
showed that it is not acting here in pursuit of any legislative pur- 
pose, but the committee is actually arrogating unto itself a func- 
tion which has not been granted to the Federal Government at all. 
Rather, it is acting in a field which is reserved to the people of the 
United States under the ninth and tenth amendments. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I don't believe we are here to have 
legal lectures from this lawyer. I respectfully request that she answer 
tlie question. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 
That is the question. 

Mr. Jackson. Let us strike from the record anj'^ reference to the 
witness' ability in tlie legal field. 

Mrs. Roberson. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. I think in the exercise of this precious thing called 
freedom of speech that we had better let the witness continue and ask 
her indulgence to the extent of finishing as quickly as possible. 

Mrs. Roberson. I certainly intend to do so. If I had fewer inter- 
ruptions, I would be through much quicker. 

As I was saying, this committee is attempting to investigate or take 
action in a field which is forbidden to it and to every branch of the 
Federal Government by the ninth and tenth amendments. There is 
no section of the Constitution which delegates to the Federal Govern- 



3388 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

ment the right to investigate or dictate the thought, speech, political 
opinion, or conscience of the people. 

Incidentally — and I think I may quote President Eisenhower, per- 
haps, without fear of guilt by association, although I read in the press 
that he was once in a meeting with Harry Dexter White — President 
Eisenhower was quoted on this point in the San Francisco Chronicle 
on November 24. He said that the code by which Americans live 
includes the right to "speak your mind and be protected in it." 

This is the right which is guaranteed by the first amendment, and 
it is not any function of government to interfere with that right. 

Moreover, the committee cannot justify its record by claiming that 
it is investigating crime. The Constitution assigns that function, the 
function of investigating crime, to the executive branch of the Gov- 
ernment, and although it is an incidental result of the actions of this 
committee that people get punished, the committee cannot justify its 
actions by claiming that it is punishing crime, since the Constitution 
assigns that function to the judicial branch of government. 

Moreover, persons accused of crime are guaranteed certain rights 
by the sixth amendment, which this committee denies me and other 
witnesses subpenaed before it. On this point let me say, so there may 
be no misunderstanding, I have committed no crimes. I have never 
been charged with committing a crime. I never plan to be. But 
innocent persons before now have been convicted, imprisoned, even 
executed, and therefore my protection does not lie alone in my in- 
nocence of any crime. 

A few hundred years ago physical torture was used to force a con- 
fession from one accused, regardless of his guilt or innocence, and it 
was to protect the innocent that the law came to forbid any form of 
compulsion to force a witness to testify against himself. This prin- 
ciple, embodied in the fifth amendment, is a part of the Bill of Rights, 
and it is because I am innocent of any crime that I rely, in addition to 
the other crouncls stated, upon the provision of the Constitution which 
is specifically designed to protect the innocent. In this connection I 
call the committee's attention to the opinion of the United States 
Supreme Court in Twirling v. Neio Jersey. You may want to take this 
citation down, Mr. Jackson, because in sitting here the last few days 
I have heard you state time and time again where the witness is rely- 
ing on the fifth amendment that you were left only with the assump- 
tion that they must be guilty of some crime or some subversive activity 
because they so relied on the fifth amendment. 

That is not the law, Mr. Jackson. The citation is 211 United States 
Reporter at page 78. The Supreme Court said in that case that this 
portion of the fifth amendment was regarded at the time our Nation 
was founded as it is now, and here I quote — 

as a privilege of great value, a protection for the innocent, though a shield for 
the guilty, and a safeguard against the heedless, unfounded, or tyrannical 
prosecutions. 

Incidentally, the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, that is the 
circuit which includes California, has held likewise in the case of 
United States v. Spector — I don't have the citation handy, but I 
would be glad to make it available to counsel or to you, Mr. Jackson. 

For all of the reasons stated I will not be a party to McCarthyism, 
what Mr. Truman has described as McCarthyism in referring to the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3389 

actions of this committee when he also stood upon the Constitution and 
refused to respond to a subpena from this committee. 

He said at that time that 

Mr. Jackson. May I say to the witness that the Chair has been 
very lenient in listening to a dissertation which the committee has 
heard in one form or another on a thousand occasions. The witness 
assured the Chair that she would be brief. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. Mr. Jackson, it was not my choice that you take 
this road show on the road. I am sorry you have had to listen to this 
explanation so many times, but it happens to be the law. 

Mr. Jackson. I am sorry I had to listen to it, too, but I have no 
choice. I am a captive audience of yours, and I can't do very much 
about it. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I did not invite you to San Francisco, nor did I 
invite you to serve me with a subpena. 

Mr. Jackson. No; but the duty imposed upon us by the Congress 
of the United States forces us to listen to it, and I can think of many 
more pleasant things to do. 

Mrs. RoBERSoN. I am sure this committee could decide to fold the 
show up. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you standing upon the fifth amendment of the 
Constitution ? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I am standing upon the legal argument which I 
just made, slightly interrupted. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you completed your argument? 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. If you will give me a moment to look in my notes, 
I will tell you. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. For the moment I have completed my argument, 
thank you, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. You are quite welcome; and your reasons have all 
been stated in your argument? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I believe they have been. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever use the name "Dobie" as a first name, I 
presume, nickname? 

Mrs. RoBERSoN. What is the relevance of that question and the 
purposes of this committee? 

Mr. KuNziG. Just answer the question. 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. I think I have a right to inquire as to the relevance. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will decide as to the relevance of it. 
Will the witness kindly answer the question ? 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. Well, if the question is not relevant, I don't see 
why I should answer it, and if it is relevant, in view of everything I 
have said, I certainly am not going to answer it. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask counsel, is this a matter of identification? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. The witness yesterday stated that he knew her 
under the name of "Dobie." 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever use the name "Dobie" as a nickname, any 
name or appellation attached to you ? 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. You are asking me this question, Mr. Kunzig, be- 
cause the witness Dickson Hill said that he had known me under that 
name; is that correct? 



3390 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Just answer the question, please. We are asking ; you 
answer. 

Mrs. RoBERSoN. Well, I must decline to answer the question. I 
can't see that the answer to this question will forward the purpose of 
this committee, if it is a lefjislative purpose, and if it isn't a legis- 
lative purpose, it is forbidden to this committee by article I of the 
Constitution. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you so decline? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I do so decline. 

Mr. Jackson. For the reasons previously stated? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. Oh, yes, yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well, so that will be clear on the record. Go 
ahead, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been an organizer for the Communist 
Party among the cannery workers? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. Mr. Kunzig, it was Mr. Jackson who wanted to 
go to lunch at 12 o'clock, and I am perfectly ready to go now. Aren't 
you just wasting .: 

Mr. Jackson. I will postpone it. Answer the question. 

Mrs. RoBERsoN. It is obviously a waste of time. I can't understand 
why you pursue this line of inquiry. I can repeat 

Mr. Kunzig. I think you understand very well. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I can repeat my legal argument if you wish me 
to do so. 

Mr. Kunzig. You are refusing to answer on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment because you might incriminate yourself, is that the 
answer ? 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I refuse to answer on all the grounds I stated; that 
includes articles I and II of the Constitution and amendments 1, 5, 
6, 9, and 10. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Kunzig. I would like to ask if you ever took an oath upon be- 
coming a member of the bar. 

Mrs. Robertson. I believe that I did. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you 
took that oath? 

Mrs. Roberson. Well, I am getting hungry if you are not, Mr. 
Kunzig. Really, although, as I say 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mrs. Roberson. I would like to make my argument again. It 
might be clearer that you are just wasting your time and mine and 
the committee's and everyone else's. 

Mr. Jackson. We can save it if you will simply decline to answer. 

Mrs. Roberson. Obviously I decline to answer. Why go through 
this farce? 

Mr. Jackson. For all the reasons previously stated ? 

Mrs. Roberson. For all the reasons previously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you a member of the bar at the time you acted 
as an organizer for the cannery workers for the Communist Party, 
if you did so act ? 

Mrs. Roberson. Tliat is one of these compound questions that Mr. 
Speiser of the American Civil Liberties Union has been objecting to. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3391 

Mr. KuNZiG. He is not representing you. Just answer for your- 
self. 

Mrs. RoBERSON. I think his point was very well taken. Do you mind 
breaking the question down? 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of the bar when you acted as 
organizer for the Communist Party in the cannery workers group? 

(At this point Mrs. Roberson conferred with Mr. Olshausen.) 

Mr. KuNziG. If you so acted ? 

Mrs. Roberson. What was that last aside, Mr. Kunzig? I didn't 
hear it. 

Mr. Kunzig. If you so acted, Mrs. Roberson. 

Mrs. Roberson. It is now in three parts. 

Mr. Kunzig. You were asked the question as to whether you were 
an organizer of the Communist Party in the cannery workers, and you 
saw fit to refuse to answer that one, you see. Now I am asking you 
whether you were a member of the party at the time that you acted 
as an organizer. 

Mrs. Roberson. Since I declined to answer, Mr. Kunzig, it must be 
apparent to you as a Philadelphia lawyer that you are assuming facts 
not in evidence. How can I answer such a question ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Counsel, I would like to ask one question. Are 
you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs, Roberson. Shall I go through my argument again ? 

Mr. Jackson. Spare us the speech. I would just like to have a 
declination or an answer. 

Mrs. Roberson. Mr. Jackson, as I told you at the beginning of this 
little 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, I remember that. I remember all you told the 
committee. Will you please answer the question? 

Mrs. Roberson. I would not state to this committee whether or not 
I was a member of the Republican or Democratic Parties in view of 
the kind of testimony which has been given this committee in the last 
few days. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you decline to answer the question? 

Mrs. Roberson. Particularly I wouldn't tell if I were a member of 
the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Jackson. Will you please answer the question pending? 

Mrs. Roberson. I decline to answer the question, as you knew that 
I would. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; I was quite confident you would. 

Mrs. Roberson. Why put the question ? 

Mr, Jackson. Is there any further reason why the witness should 
not be excused ? 

Mr. Kunzig, No ; there is nothing further. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is excused. 

The committe will stand in recess until 2 o'clock this afternoon. 

( Wliereupon, at 12 : 20 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 2: 05 p. m, of the same day, the hearing was re- 
sumed, the following committee members being present : Representa- 
tives Harold H. Velde (chairman), Donald L. Jackson, Gordon H. 
Scherer, and Clyde Doyle.) 



3392 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

Let the record show that I have set up a subcommittee consisting of 
Mr. Jackson, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Doyle, and myself as the chairman for 
the purposes of the continued hearings. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like first to state for the 
record, because it is important that the record at all times here be 
correct, the purpose of this committee and the law, Public Law 601 
of the 79tli Congress, passed by that Congress and signed by the then 
President of the United States, which gives this committee not only 
a power, but an absolute duty, and every Congressman appointed to 
this committee, to carry out that law. 

There has been a gi*eat deal of quoted law here this morning, and 
we want to be sure that the record stands corrected, not as quoted at 
the present moment. 

Public Law 601 gives the Committee on Un-American Activities 
the following duty : 

Authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, charac- 
ter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States; (2) 
the diffusion v^dthin the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Consti- 
tution ; and (3) all other questions in relation tliereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

This committee is in San Francisco, Calif., pursuant to that law 
and following the duty imposed by that law to investigate subversive 
activities in the United States of America. 

I now wish to call James Walker Benet. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before the sub- 
committee, do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Benet. I do. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point.) 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES WALKEE BENET II 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your name, please ? 

Mr. Benet. My name is James Walker Benet 11. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see that you are not accompanied by counsel, Mr. 
Benet. You know that you have, of course, the right before this 
committee to have counsel if you so desire. Is it your desire to testify 
without counsel ? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, it is. I would like to offer you this statement for 
inclusion into the record with my testimony at this point. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, of course the rules require that this 
statement by the witness be filed within a reasonable period of time 
in advance of the hearing, but I recommend under the circumstances 
that the statement be accepted to be filed and considered by the com- 
mittee in due accordance with our rules and regulations. 

Mr. Velde. It is so instructed. 

Mr. KuNziG. I shall pass the statement to the clerk. 

Now, would you state where you were born, sir, and when? 

Mr. Benet. I was born in Port Washington, Long Island, N. Y., 
January 7, 1914. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3393 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present address ? 
Mr. Benet. 2121 Vallejo Street, San Francisco. 
Mr. KuNziG. Where are you employed, sir ? 
Mr. Benet. At the San Francisco Chronicle. 
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever used the name of Jim Thompson? 
Mr. Benet. No, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever used any alias of any kind whatsoever ? 
Mr. Benet. Not that I can recall. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like to quote from sworn tes- 
timony before this committee by Martin Berkeley. 

Question. Were [Martin Berkeley] you assigned to any particular club at 
that time? 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Or a unit of the party? 

Answer. I was kept in that particular Patrick Henry Club of the Communist 
Party. 

Question. Do you recall the names of any of the other members of the group? 

Answer. I do, sir. The chairman of our group, which at the time I joined 
we had about 75 members, and within 6 weeks we had approximately 175 mem- 
"bers, and it then split up and took some more loft buildings, but the head of the 
group was Jim Thompson, who was either a brother or a cousin of Robert Thomp- 
son, one of the convicted top Communists. Also in the group was Isidor Schnei- 
der, editor and contributor to New Masses; William Browder, who was a 
brother of Earl Browder : a man named Lee Sabinson. who at that time was a 
screen writer, and who is now a very well known Broadway producer. I will 
say that most of the members of the group were workingmen, with just this 
handful of intellectuals who were artists in this particular group. 

This is now from the supplemental sworn statement : 

As head of the first group to which you [Martin Berkeley] were assigned you 
identified Jim Thompson. Is Jim Thompson the correct name of the indi- 
vidual? 

Answer. No. 

Question. What is his correct name? 

Answer. James Walker Benet. 

Question. AVill you further identify James Walker Benet? 

Answer. Jim Benet was the head of my first group in the Communist Party 
in New York known as the Patrick Henry Club. My understanding is that some- 
time in 1936 or 1937 — I do not recall the exact date — he went to Spain. He is 
the son of William Rose Benet, the poet. I joined the Communist Party in New 
York in the early fall of 1936 and left for Hollywood. Calif., during the middle 
of January 1937. I knew him through that period as a Communist and a leader 
of the group with which I was associated. 

Mr. Benet, do you wish to confirm or deny that testimony ? 

Mr. Benet. This is supposed to have taken place in what year ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you read the teslimony back ? 

Mr. Benet. I just wanted to make certain of the year you men- 
tioned. 

Mr. KuNZiG. He talks about 1937, 1936. I will get the further year 
for you in a moment. If you will indulge us just a moment, Mr. 
Chairman, we will get the exact date he wants. 

The year 1936 or 1937 was given in this testimony in connection with 
jour going to Spain. 

Mr. Benet. I see. The question is whether I wished to affirm or 
deny this testimony ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Benet. Is that it? Well, there are a great many statements 
involved there. I will say this, that I think that the questioning and 



3394 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

the testimony of this witness is an attempt to link me to things in con- 
nection with which a prosecution might possibly be brought against 
me. I will not answer the question further, and I will depend on my 
rights under the fifth amendment not to testify against myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Benet, did you fill out a form asking for a pass- 
port in which you indicated that the purpose of your trip was travel 
to England, Holland, and Germany, intending to return to the United 
States within 1 year ? 

Mr. Benet. I certainly applied for a passport in 1937. I have no 
recollection of what purposes were stated on it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the first passport you applied for at any time? 

Mr. Benet. Yes ; I believe it was. 

Mr. KuNziG. On that passport did you go abroad and then go 
through France, down to Spain, and fight in Spain ? 

Mr. Benet. I certainly did go to Spain. I didn't need the passport 
to enter Spain, however. 

Mr. Kunzig. When you left the United States of America and you 
made your application for passport, you stated : 

I intend to return within 1 year, and I intend to visit the following countries 
for the purpose of travel : England, Holland, and Germany. 

Did you at that time intend to go to Spain ? 

Mr. Benet. You are asking me about something a long time ago. 
As I say, I have no recollection of what was stated on the application, 
and as I said, I did go to Spain. I am not going to attempt to recall 
my state of mind. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Benet. I will refuse to answer that question, too, on the same 
ground, that the fifth amendment protects me from being compelled 
to testify against myself. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Benet. No. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you a member of the Communist Party yester- 
day? 

Mr. Benet. I think that the question is somewhat absurd. 

Mr. Kunzig. I don't think it is in the slightest. It is very simple. 
Were you a member of the Communist Party yesterday ? You said 
already under oath that you are not now a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, I recall my answer, sir. Again I think the ques- 
tion is absurd. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you kindly answer it? 

Mr. Benet. I didn't have time to do anything yesterday. I was 
here listening to this committee's hearings under subpena, but I will 
answer the question, absurd as it is : No, I was not yesterday. 

Mr. Kunzig. All right. Were you a member of the Communist 
Party 1 month ago? 

Mr. Benet. Since you evidently intend to go back and attempt 
to pin down dates, I will say that to further questions like this one 
I will decline to answer on the grounds I have stated. 

Mr. Kunzig. So as to 1 month ago you refuse to answer on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Benet. That is correct. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3395 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade 
when you were in Spain ? 

Mr. Benet, I was for a part of the time I was there; yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know Martin Berkeley, the man whose tes- 
timony counsel just read to you? 

Mr. Benet. I don't recall his name after a period of what he states 
to have been 16 or 17 years. I may have met such a person that long 
ago, but I don't remember his name at this moment. 

Mr. Scherer. Is any part of the testimony of Martin Berkeley 
which counsel read to you true, witness ? 

Mr. Benet. I don't know. He named a lot of people about whom 
he said certain things. I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Scherer. Well, is any part of the testimony of Martin Berkeley 
with reference to you true? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, sir; he accurately named my father. 

Mr. Scherer. Is that all? 

Mr. Benet. He inaccurately stated that I am related to Bob Thomp- 
son, who was convicted under the Smith Act. That is not true. 

Mr. Scherer. Well, now 

Mr. Benet. At least I assume it is not. As far as I know, there 
is no relation. He may go back to Massachusetts a hundred years 
ago, too. 

Mr. Scherer. Having had your recollection refreshed by the testi- 
mony read by counsel, did you ever use the alias of Jim Thompson? 

Mr. Benet. Not to the best of my recollection. 

Mr. Scherer. Do I understand you to say now that you can't remem- 
ber whether you knew this man, Berkeley, or not? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, sir ; that is what I said. That is true. 

Mr. Scherer. AVas there anything in the testimony of Martin Berke- 
ley as read to you that you know to be false, particularly with reference 
to yourself? 

Mr. Benet. Well, I think that is rather tricky. Along that line 
of questioning you could compel me — or you could lead me to answer 
a question which I have already declined to answer under my con- 
stitutional rights, and I think I won't answer any more questions about 
that testimony so far as I can see at the moment. 

Mr. Scherer. All right. You have a perfect right to decline to 
answer it if you properly and in good faith invoke the fifth amend- 
ment of the Constitution. Could I have that testimony just a minute 
that you read from ? 

Did you ever live in the city of New York? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. And would you tell us during what years you lived 
in the city of New York ? 

Mr. Benet. I lived there from late in 1935 until late in 1946 with 
a period out while I was in Spain. 

Mr. Scherer. Now, I don't believe counsel asked you specifically: 
during the time that you lived in the city of New Y'ork were you a 
member of the Patrick Henry Club ? 

Mr. Benet. Well, that again is a question on this testimony, I think, 
sir, and I will decline to answer it on the same grounds. 



3396 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. On the grounds of the fifth amendment. What type 
of work were you engaged in during the time you lived in New York? 

Mr. Benet. Journalism. 

Mr. ScHERER. I believe that is all the questions I have at this mo- 
ment, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Benet, under this Public Law 601 which our counsel 
read part of at the beginning of this afternoon's hearing, to which law 
I have called attention in the last 3 or 4 days on several occasions, I 
want to direct your attention to 1 section thereof and secure coopera- 
tion. 

I never met you ; I have never read anything about you, so I am 
deliberately asking you this question in the utmost good faith ; I am 
not trying to trap you nor entice you into making any statement. But 
part of the law under which we operate tells us to go into questions 
with relation to possible remedial legislation dealing with the subject 
of subversive conduct and un-American activities and to make our 
recommendation to the United States Congress, and we have done that, 
as was called attention to this morning, and there are several laws now 
on the statute book wholly or in part the result of the activities of this 
committee, as a result of investigations such as the one we are now in 
the process of having. 

But you are a schooled gentleman, and I want to ask you if you have 
any suggestion or idea which your Congress should consider in the 
subject of legislation dealing even more thoroughly or differently with 
the subject of subversive conduct in the United States than we pres- 
ently have on the statute books. 

Have you any such suggestion ? Have you considered the matter ? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. Doyle. If you have, I want to get the benefit, whatever it may 
be. I have no idea what it may be. 

Mr. Benet. I don't wish to be flippant with you, Mr. Doyle. I 
don't mean to give you a smart or cheap answer. 

Mr. Doyle. I haven't been with you, and I don't expect you to be 
with me. 

Mr. Benet, But I must seriously say that, as I indicated in the state- 
ment that I handed to counsel 

Mr. D0Y1.E, I haven't seen that, of course. 

Mr. Benet. No. Mr. Scherer has it. Would you like to see it before 
I continue ? Mr. Scherer has it. 

Mr. Doyle. No; whatever statement vou made wouldn't make me 
withdraw my question because I am asking your cooperation in good 
faith. 

Mr. Benet. That is so. In that statement I say that I wish to pro- 
tect myself in the American way against un-American activities, and 
by "un-American activities" I mean, of course, the activities of this 
committee, sir. I think that the committee is injuring every citizen, 
is an offense against the Constitution, and is, as President Truman 
called it recently — former President Truman — a cancer. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, now, may I just ask you this — I didn't ask you 
this question in good faith in order to f^ive you the time or opportunity 
to make a speech criticizing the committee. I am asking you in good 
faith, liave you any suggestion in the field of legislation? 

Mr. Benet. I think the answer flows from what I said. 



COMMUNIST ACTR'ITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3397 

Mr. Doyle. I don't expect you to take advantage of my good faith 
question in making a critical speech against the committee. I don't 
think that is cricket. 

Mr. Benet. Well, I haven't any wish to be offensive. But I think 
it is clear from what I said that any suggestion that I might make to 
you about legislation would be legislation to curtail the activities of 
this committee, wliich I think would be a legislation against subversion 
of the Constitution. 

Mr. DoTLE. Well, now, do I understand then that you don't think 
your United States Congress ought to investigate subversive conspira- 
cies wherever they exist in the United States ? 

Mr. Benet. I certainly don't think that they should do what this 
committee is doing, and that is to bring people before it in a glare of 
publicity of people against whom informers have made accusations 
and in effect to hold a public trial of them without the safeguards 
which the Constitution gives to the people properly on trial before a 
court. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, of course — and I won't debate the issue with you 
here or discuss it with you at great length. We don't have time to do 
that. But of course this is no court and couldn't be a court in the 
nature of the thing. We are a factfinding body, and every witness 
appearing before us always has the right to counsel, and the thing we 
are trying to find out, as the record clearly speaks, Mr. Benet, in my 
book — as the record clearly speaks uncontrovertedly — that the Com- 
munist Party in America ever since the Duclos letter, which came to 
this country, I think, in April 1945, has been advocating — maybe not 
all the members of the Communist Party in America, but the leader- 
ship in this country since, at least, April of 1945 — the use of force and 
violence. 

Now, that is the reason I am interested in working on this committee, 
not because we may have difference of thought or controversial sub- 
jects, and I am going to close my question because you apparently 
haven't given the subject matter from that angle the thought that I 
hoped you might have on the question of subversives, because I know 
of no way to uncover subversives except to uncover them. They don't 
hesitate to subvert our Government by keeping underground. 

I was in Spain a month ago wliere you were, by the way, and I was 
in Portugal where you were probably, and I was in France and 
Germany and Austria and Norway and Italy, and I found the same 
underground conspiracy over there. that is going on in my country. 
It is part of the same conspiracy, sir, but I thank you at any rate for 
your observations. 

Mr. Velde. While you were in Spain were j^ou connected with the 
Abraham Lincoln Brigade? 

Mr. Benet. Yes, sir; I have already said I was. 

Mr. Doyle. May I make one further statement, Mr. Chairman, if 
you are through ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes, proceed. 

Mr. Doyle. I note that you frankly stated and immediately stated 
that you were not today a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Benet. That is right. 

Mr. DoYi.E. I don't know how long you have been out of it. I am 
not criticizing you for the position you have taken, assuming that you 



3398 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

are sincere — which I will assume, sir — but by inference at least the 
form of the question and the answer leads me to feel — and I am trying 
to be reasonable about it, believe me — that there was a time in the last 
10 years when you were a member of the Communist Party, 

Now, if that is true, won't you please accept our urgent invitation, 
as your Congressmen, because we are United States Congressmen, and 
this is no picnic, this kind of a job we have to do, I assure you, but it 
is a job and a dutiful job to do — but won't you please be at least as 
active, as I said to a gentleman this morning, against the functioning 
of the Communist Party in America, which I call a Communist con- 
spiracy, with knowledge and forethought — won't you at least be as 
active against the Communist conspiracy in this country as I assume 
you were when and if you were a member of the Communist Party in 
America. 

I urge you to do that because you are in a strategic position, sir, as 
a journalist and a writer, to apply your brains and your God-given 
liberty and freedom to help destroy the thing and to put in its place 
the idealism which should be substituted for it. I don't want to take 
advantage of you; I don't intend to take advantage of you, but I 
recognize you as a brainy American who should be giving much to 
the country. 

Mr. Benet. If I may be permitted to answer something that was not 
quite a question, Mr. Doyle, I hope I will always be ready to uphold 
and defend the American principles and American rights to freedom. 
I can give you my word I always will do so. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, you can't stay in the Communist Party and do 
that, in my book. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Benet. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Velde. Did you hold any rank as a member of the Abraham 
Lincoln Brig£*de, Mr. Benet? 

Mr. Benet. Well, I was a sergeant, and I was a corporal at different 
times. 

Mr. Velde. How long were you in the brigade ? 

Mr. Benet. Well, we are getting into a little difficulty of nomen- 
clature. There was an Abraham Lincoln Battalion in the Interna- 
tional Brigades. 

I was only in that battalion briefly, but I was in the International 
Brigades for a year and a half. 

Mr. Velde. All that time you were in Spain, I take it ? 

Mr. Benet. That is so. 

Mr. Velde. Did you know Steve Nelson ? 

Mr. Benet. I don't believe I ever met him. 

Mr. Velde. You, of course, have heard of him ? 

Mr. Benet. I have heard of him, and he was convicted recently in 
Pennsylvania, I believe. 

Mr. Velde. He was likewise a member of the Abraham Lincoln 
Brigade. I suppose you know 

Mr. Benet. Well, I suppose that is true. I don't think I ever met 
him, but it has been so stated many times in the press. 

_ Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, I think it proper at this point to read the 
citation of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade into the record. 

Mr. KuNziG. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade or Battalion, Mr. 
Chairman, was cited as Communist by Attorney General Tom Clark 



€OMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3399 

in a letter to the Loyalty Review Board on April 27, 1949 ; Special 
Committee on Un-American Activities in 19M, March 29; it was 
cited as a Communist front by the California Committee on Un- 
American Activities in 1948 ; and by the Massachusetts House Com- 
mittee of Un-American Activities in 1938. 

Mr. Benet. Mr. Chairman, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, of 
course, ceased to exist after the end of the Spanish War. I don't see 
how it could have been cited. 

Mr. KuNziG. These are official records of Attorney General Tom 
Clark. 

Mr. Velde. These are records of the Attorney General. 

Mr. Benet. Can you explain them to me ? 

Mr. Scherer. It was cited for being a Communist-dominated or- 
ganization during the time of its existence. No organization is cited 
unless 



Mr. Benet. About 10 years afterward. 

Mr. Scherer. The first citation was in 1938, I understand. 

Did you ever receive any compensation from the Abraham Lincoln 
Brigade or Battalion ? 

Mr. Benet. Well, the international brigades were, of course, part 
of the Spanish Republic's Army, and every soldier in the Spanish 
Republic Army was paid. 

Mr. Scherer. They paid your transportation home, too? 

Mr. Benet. Well, that is a long time ago. As I remember it, I 
paid a good deal of it myself. I couldn't answer you accurately on 
that. 

Mr. Scherer. I happen to have an affidavit of yours made in France 
in which you say that they paid your transportation expenses home. 

Mr. Benet. Well, if that is a proper affidavit, it is no doubt correct. 

Mr. Scherer. May I ask just 1 or 2 more questions ? Did you know 
Lee Sabinson ? 

Mr. Benet. I don't recall that name. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know Isidor Schneider, the editor and con- 
tributor to the New Masses, during the time you were in the 

Mr. Benet. Yes ; I think I did meet him on several occasions. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know William Browder, Earl Browder's 
brother ? 

Mr. Benet. I may have met him a long time ago; I really can't 
recall. 

Mr. Scherer. Now, isn't it a fact -that they were all members with 
you in the Communist Party in New York, in fact, in the same section 
or cell or club ? 

Mr. Benet. I think again that is rather tricky when I tell you that 
I am not able to recall knowing a man and then you ask me if, in fact, 
I didn't belong in an organization with him. 

Mr. Scherer. You have a right, of course, to decline. 

Mr. Benet. Well, you acknowledge, of course, that it is rather 
tricky. 

Mr. ScHFJiER. No, I don't acknowledge that it is rather tricky. I 
think the evidence is clear that it is a matter of fact that you were. 
1 am just going to ask you if that isn't the fact. You have a right 

Mr. Benet. Again you are talking about the evidence of that wit- 
ness whose name, in fact, I don't recall, and I will give you the same 



3400 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

answer that I will decline to discuss that testimony any further under 
my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Is there any reason why the witness should be retained 
under subpena? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is dismissed. 

At this time I should like to read into the record a letter which I 
have just received dated December 4, 1953, addressed to me as chair- 
man of the Committee on Un-American Activities : 

Dear Mr. Veide : We are writing to you as the spokesman for the Young 
Democrats of San Francisco, Inc., which organization was incorporated under 
the laws of the State of California some 20 years ago and is now and has l)een 
continuously during said lime an integral and active arm of the Democratic 
Party and a staunch supporter of its leadership. 

Our organization has continuously and successfully fought the infiltration of 
Communists and party-liners into its ranlis on a national and statewide level, 
even at a time when the cause which you are now espousing was far less popular 
than it is today. 

We feel that your committee here in San Francisco is performing a most 
worthwhile service to all Americans and we wish to commend its temperance, 
fairness, and sense of fair play. 

You and your committee have our full support. 
Sincerely yours, 

Edward Le^^in, 
President, Young Democrats of San Francisco, Inc. 
ErjsA Manfredi Kennedy, 
Secretary of Yonng Democrats of San Francisco, Inc., and former nation- 
al committee woman of Young Democrats of California, Inc. 

.John N. Riggs, 
Past State President of Young Democrats of California, Inc. 

I am sure all of the committee members appreciate this very fine 
letter. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Donald Ames. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
ai^d nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Ames. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM DONALD AMES 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name, please, Mr. Ames? 

Mr. Ames. William Donald Ames. 

Mr. KuNziG. I note, Mr. Ames, that you are not accompanied by 
counsel. You iniderstand, of course, your rights before this commit- 
tee to have counsel sit at your side and advise you during testimony. 
Do you desire to have counsel ? 

Mr. Ames. I do not. 

]Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your present address, sir ? 

Mr. Ames. Gig Harbor, Wash. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that? 

Mr. Ames. G-i-g H-a-r-b-o-r. 

Mr. KuxziG. When and where were you born? 

Mr. Ames. Burley, Idaho. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, 
Mr. Ames? 

Mr. Ames. I have. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3401 

Mr. Kdnzig. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ames. I am not. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you relate to the committee, please, Mr. Ames, 
the circumstances under which you joined the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. It was in the summer of 1946, during the CIO conven- 
tion of the telephone workers, that a friend of my wife's came to her 
that she felt that some of the officials were Communists. My wife 
had previously worked for the Federal Bureau of Investigation down 
in San Diego prior to the war. So after that this woman, who was a 
telephone operator, I believe, she asked my wife what to do. So my 
wife suggested that she go to the FBI with what she felt, and this 
woman wanted my wife to go with her, and in doing so, through the 
course of conversation, why, the Bureau up here in Oakland found out 
that my wife had worked for the Bureau in San Diego prior to the 
war, and after the reports being made by tliis woman to the Bureau the 
Bureau contacted my wife and me and asked if we would go back into 
the party and work as undercover agents for them, which we did in 
the fall of 1946, I believe it was September or October, and we re- 
mained in the party until September 1950, when we were dropped 
from the party rolls for inactivity, and, both of us being in Federal 
civil service, they felt that we were not a part of the hardened core 
of the party. 

Mr. Velde. What did you say, Mr. Ames, about the civil service? 

Mr. Ames. We were both employed in civil service, Naval Air Sta- 
tion, Alameda, and that they felt we weren't a part of the hard core 
of the party, which they were weeding out, and, being in civil service, 
that we weren't as active as they thought we should be. 

Mr. Velde. You don't mean that they were weeding out the hard 
core of the party ; they were weeding out the weaker members. 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. Velde. The less diligent members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Ames, we are to understand, then, that you were 
in the Communist Party from 1946 until 1950, working under cover 
for the Federal Bureau of Investigation; is that correct? 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. iVnd your wife was doing the same? 

Mr. Ames. We were both doing the same work. 

Mr. KuNziG. When you joined the party, Mr. Ames, to what group 
were you first assigned ? 

Mr. Ames. We were assigned to the Elmhurst Club, one of the clubs 
of the east Oakland group. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you recollect any of the other members of that 
group who sat with you as members of this Communist club? 

Mr. Ames. Well, at the time that we joined I believe Kathleen Dick- 
erson was chairman at that time. 

Mr. Velde. Will you spell that name, please? 

Mr. Ames. Kathleen, K-a-t-h-1-e-e-n, Dickerson, D-i-c-k-e-r-s-o-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you recollect her work or employment, if any, or 
her residence at that time ? 

Mr. Ames. At that time she was a housewife ; and then there was 
Bill and Rosalie Crockett. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know their employment or address? 



3402 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Ames. Bill Crockett, he is a gardener, landscape, and they lived 
on Mountain Boulevard. I don't recall the address. Mr. Counsel, 
may I refer to some notes ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes; you may. May I ask you, Mr. Ames, is this the 
first time that you have testified before any congressional hearings 
with regard to your activities for the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion? 

Mr. Ames. It is. 

Mr. KuNziG- Are there any other people whom you recollect from 
this first group to which you were assigned in the Communist Partv^ 

Mr. Ames. Another one is Molly Thorner. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know her occupation or address ? 

Mr. Ames. Oh, she was a housewife. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Was she a member of this group? 

Mr. Ames. She was a member of the Elmhurst Club. 

Mr. KuNZTG- In order to have it specifically clear, we are only in- 
terested in names of people whom you knew to be members of the 
Communist Party. These people whom you have mentioned you knew 
to be members of the party, is that right? 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any others, sir? 

Mr. Ames. I Avas membership director at one time. 

Mr. KuNziG. You were membership director? 

Mr. Ames. Of the club, and I issued cards to them. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please? 

Mr. Ames. Later on a fellow by the name of Williams, an auto me- 
chanic transferred from 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Would you spell that, please? Wliat was that name? 

Mr. Ames. Bill Williams. He transferred from the Berkeley Club 
to the Elmhurst Club. 

Mr. Ames. And then Rosalind Lindsmith, who was a city health 
nurse, transferred into the Elmhurst Club. 

Mr. Velde. Will you spell that name, please, Mr. Ames? 

Mr. Ames. L-i-n-d-s-m-i-t-h. And Marge and Jake Price. He 
was — I don't exactly know what his work was — general labor; and 
Mr. Keller, Marge Price's father. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. How do you spell "Keller"? 

Mr. Ames. K-e-1-l-e-r. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know his occupation at all? 

Mr. Ames. No, I don't. 

Mr. KuNziG. He was the father, though, of this Marge Price whom 
you have just mentioned? 

Mr. Ames. That is right; and later on, Louise and James 
Gilliam 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell "Gilliam"? 

Mr. Ames. G-i-1-l-i-a-m — was recruited into the club. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know the occupation or address or any further 
identification ? 

Mr. Ames. James Gilliam, he Avas a mine smelter worker of east 
Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you report all these various names and informa- 
tion which you garnered to the Federal Bureau during your 

Mr. Ames. It is all on record with the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3403 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please? 

Mr. Ames. Other people who I knew to be members of the Com- 
munist Party, James McFadclen, a plumber, who was a membership 
director of the east Oakland section, Elizabeth Barlow, who was the 
educational director at one time. 

Mr. Velde. Will you spell that name, please, Mr. Ames? 

Mr. Ames. B-a-r-1-o-w. And Willie Laughery, who was manager 
of the Berkeley book store of the Communist organ, where all the lit- 
erature was received throughout the east Oakland area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Ames, could you spell that "Laughery" for us, 
please ? 

Mr. Ames. L-a-u-g-h-e-r-y. And Joe Melia, who was IPP cam- 
paign director. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the same Mr. Melia who testified here before 
this committee? 

Mr. Ames. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. You recognize him as the same person? 

Mr. Ames. That is right, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ames. That is right, because I attended functionary meetings 
which were closed to only party members, and he was in attendance, 
because at functionary meetings, most of them, you had to have a pass 
or a slip designating you to attend that particular meeting. Nobody 
except Communist members were allowed to enter it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any other members of this club whom you 
knew to be members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. I attended quite a number of functionary meetings 
and educational meetings when I was in many various jobs in the 
clubs, literature director, educational director, and later on, funds 
director, and at various meetings that were closed to only Com- 
munist members, who were one time Herschel Alexander, who was the 
director of the Civil Eights Congress in Oakland, was in attendance 
at a closed meeting in Oakland about, oh, I believe in 1947 in what 
used to be the old key system union hall. Bimbo Brown was a ware- 
houseman, I believe. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that, please? 

Mr. Ames. B-i-m-b-o B-r-o-w-n was in attendance at several closed 
meetings of the functionaries at the same place and was working — at 
that time I was educational director and had been assigned for the 
Peoples World drive for increased circulation, new subscriptions, and 
that was a meeting held on 12th Street in Oakland. The principal 
reason of the meeting was to try and increase the circulation of 
Peoples World. Leo Baroway 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that, please? 

Mr. Ames. L-e-o B-a-r-o-w-a-y — was chairman of the meeting, and 
at that time I believe he was one of the associate editors of the Peoples 
World. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ames. I knew him only by association and in attendance of a 
closed meeting at which only Communist members were admitted. 

Mr. KuNziG. You and he sat together in a Communist Party meet- 
ing at which only Communist Party members could come in? 



3404 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let me ask you — we will come back to that in a min- 
ute — what capacities did you serve in during your membership ? 

Mr. Ames. During my membership in the Communist Party I 
served as educational director, which duties was to attend the various 
educational meetings of all of the educational directors of the clubs 
in the east bay and was directed by the State educational director on 
what grounds or fields to cover in the educational program within the 
clubs and to procure the literature that could be used in following 
up the Marxist and Leninist teachings which was to have an edu- 
cational period at each club meeting. I was also more or less mem- 
bership and funds director. 

At one time I had a position in the party that was the only job 
that was — that is, the membership director, who collected the dues of 
the members of the club and kept the records of the funds which was 
received in the club and in turn turned it over to the county fund 
director. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I think this might be a good point 
for a brief recess. 

Mr. Velde. At this point the committee will be in recess for 10 
minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 3 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 
3:10 p.m.) 

(The hearing reconvened at 3 : 17 p. m.) 
Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 
Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present age, Mr. Ames? 
Mr. Ames. Thirty-nine. 
Mr. KuNziG. And your present occupation ? 

Mr. Ames. Aircraft metalsmith in McChord Field in Washington; 
that is near Tacoma. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been in the military service, Mr. Ames ? 
Mr. Ames. Yes; I was in the United States Navy from 1934 until 
January 1941, whereupon, a short time after leaving the service I went 
to work in civil service, first for the Army Air Forces, and then trans- 
ferring to the Navy at the airbase in Alameda, where I worked until 
after the war, and I believe it was in October of 1945 when I resigned. 
I bought a service station, operated the service station for approxi- 
mately 214 years. After selling the service station I went back into 
civil service at the naval air station in Alameda and worked until 
September or August of 1951 and transferred to McChord Air Force 
Base near Tacoma, Wash., where I am currently employed now. 

Mr. KuNZiG. JNIr. Ames, before the break you were testifying con- 
cerning the positions in which you served as a member of the Com- 
munist Party, the capacities that you had. Would you continue those 
various positions, please? 

Mr. Ames. I believe at the time of the break I was an educational 
director, which was my job to procure the literature and the various 
writings that were designated by the State and county educational 
board to be used within the chibs for the purpose of teaching the 
Marxist and Lenin lines and also to hold what they called Marxist 
reading classes. 

I believe it was 1948 that the various clubs were broken up into 
what they called squads of 3 to 5 members each, and we were instructed 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3405 

to hold a reading class on the Marxist and Leninist teachings of 1 
night a week, which was in some groups pretty well followed. 

My w^ife, Peggy, was the squad leader of one of the groups from 
the Elmhurst Club in Oakland, East Oakland, and we held these 
Marxist readings once a week at various points, homes of the members 
of the Communist Party, members' homes. We would have these 
reading classes at first one member's home, and then the next week 
we would have these reading classes at another member's home, so 
that it was our instructions that we were not to hold any of them 
consistently in any one party member's home for security reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. What were the concentration points of the activities 
of the party, so far as it lies within your knowledge during the time 
that you were a member ? 

Mr. Ames. The concentration points that we were assigned were the 
General Motor Chevrolet plant in East Oakland, and the — I forget 
now the name of the steel company in East Oakland. That was an- 
other one of the concentration points, to integrate as many of the 
steelworkers, the mine and smelter union, as possible into membership 
of the party, and also there were two canneries out in East Oakland 
which were part of our concentration points for the Elmhurst Club. 

Mr. KuNziG. You were trying to recruit members from the cannery 
workers ? 

Mr. AaiES. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any other unions or groups which were con- 
centrating points from which you were trying to get members? 

Mr. Ames. No, but it was within the structure of the party to work 
on any group that it was possible to integrate and get them to join 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. But what you have mentioned are the groups that you, 
personally, worked with? 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you stated that you were in the party from 1946 
to 1950. Did you stay in any way within the fringe of the party beyond 
that time? 

Mr. Ames. Yes. In 1950, after we dropped from the party rolls, 
why my wife and I — Peggy — worked with several of the groups of 
East Oakland from Elmhurst Club that were concentrating on neigh- 
borhood problems that they tried to bring to integrate into — one of 
them was the housing project down on East 14th Street. I have for- 
gotten the name of the housing project. It was near 73d Avenue, and 
they were constantly going to the housing authorities and demanding 
that there was a discrimination in this housing project because at that 
time I don't believe there were any Negro people living in this housing 
project, and they were attempting to force the housing project to move 
other people out and allow a certain number of Negro families in this 
project. 

]\Ir. KuNziG. During the time that you were active in the party did 
you have any experience with the Independent Progressive Party? 

Mr. Ames. Yes, I acted as a register in the city of Oakland within 
the district in which I lived for the Independent Progi'essive Party. 
1 went out and sought donations. I helped organize various concen- 
tration areas that were assigned to the Elmhurst Club that we were to 
cover for registration, and to get as many people as we contacted as 



3406 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

possible to change their voting registrations to the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party. 

Mr, KuNziG. Were you doing this as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ames. I was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Why was that ? 

Mr. Ames. Well, the Communist Party jumped in on the third 
party's back and was using it as a front to seek as many political 
offices as possible in the various — around by the Government as pos- 
sible and was using the Independent Progressive Party for that pur- 
pose. They were using it as their immediate front to infiltrate into 
the Government of the United States. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Ames, you had mentioned previously the names 
of some of the people whom you knew to be members of the Com- 
munist Party during the time you were a member working for the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation. Would you now please continue 
that group of names and give us as many of the names of the people 
whom you can identify whom you knew to be members of the Com- 
munist Party? We are just interested in those whom you knew to be 
members of the party. 

Mr. Ames. I will go from where I left off before the recess. Miss 
Euth^ Black, Robert Black, husband and wife. I knew them to be 
members of the Communist Party from previous closed meetings of 
the Communist Party. There was one session that was held at Nor- 
way Hall which was a section of the educational forum. Wesley 
Bodkin ; I attended a closed meeting of the Communist Party at afore- 
mentioned hall on East 12th Street during the IPP campaign in 1947, 
where he gave a speech of how important it was to the warehousmen 
that we worked and concentrated on the petition to get the IPP party 
accepted as a political part;/ prior to the elections in 1948. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was this man's name again? 

Mr. Ames. Wesley Bodkin, B-o-d-k-i-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know his activity or work or employment? 

Mr. Ames. He was a warehouseman. 

Mr. KuNziG. Any other names? 

Mr. Ames. And Bill Clifford. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliat was his occupation, if you know ? 

Mr. Ames. I believe, as I remember, I believe he was in the building 
trades, a plasterer or a bricklayer. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ames. I did. He was in attendance at that same meeting that 
I mentioned as Wesley Bodkin, and also in attendance at that meeting 
there was George Edwards, who was, I believe, at that time one of 
the functionaries of the West Oakland Club, and Ray Thompson, 
who was one of the security functionaries. 

Mr. KuNziG. For the party ? 

Mr. Ames. For the party. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Do you know his occupation in any way? 

Mr. Ames. No ; I don't ; and also in attendance at that meeting was 
Wayne Hultgren and his wife, Ruth Hultgren. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that H-u-1-t-g-r-e-n ? 



1 Investigation has determined the correct name as being Gladys Black. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3407 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Mr. Hultgreivs occupation or hers, 
if any ? 

Mr. Ames. I believe he is a carpenter, and as far as I know, Ruth 
is a housewife. 

Mr. KuNziG. Any others ? 

Mr. Ames. Then there was Bernice Kahnan and Ted Kahnan. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is K-a-1-m-a-n ^ 

Mr. Ames. Correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know their occupations ? 

Mr. Ames. No, I don't. At one time Bernice Kalman was, I be- 
lieve, a secretary or something in the office of the People's World in 
Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew all these people during the period to time 
you were a member from 1946 to 1950? 

Mr. Ames. That is right. In addition there was Lloyd and Fanny 
Lehman. 

Mr. KuN"ziG. L-e-h-m-a-n? 

Mr. Ames. Yes, sir ; who were also present at closed meetings. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know^ any addresses or occupations for them ? 

Mr. Ames. Lloyd Lehman, I believe, is a carpenter. As far as I 
know, the only work that his wife, Fanny, did was functionary work 
in the party. I believe at one time she was educational director for 
one of the clubs, I believe the Encinal Club, in Alameda. 

Mr. KuNziG. Any other names, sir? 

Mr. Ames. Later on, after this meeting that I have mentioned, I 
knew Buddy Green — I believe his first name was Walter. He was, 
I believe, in 1949, People's World county director, 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Ames. I did. He sat in a closed meeting of the Communist 
Party and was director for the People's World, and gave a talk on 
the importance of getting the subscriptions of the People's World 
increased so that the w^orking people in the east bay area would know 
the various things that took place, which the party used as a labor 
movement and used the People's World as its main organ of publi- 
cation throughout the bay area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any other people whom you knew to be 
members of the party? 

Mr. Ames. Yes; there was Bob Neville. 

Mr. KuNziG. N-e-v-i-1-l-e? 

Mr. Ames. Correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know his occupation or address, sir ? 

Mr. Ames. I believe he was a warehouseman. I do not know his 
address. 

Mr. KuNziG. Continue. 

Mr. Ames. There was Luther Morris. 

Mr. KuNziG. How did you know Luther Morris ? 

Mr. Ames. He was a member of the Elmhurst Club at one time, 
and I believe he transferred to one of the union clubs. I believe it 
was one of the electrical workers' clubs. He ran on the IPP ticket in 
the elections of 1948 for the office of — I believe it was State representa- 
tive of the Sixth Congressional District. 



3408 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the party even 
though he was running on the Independent Progressive Party ticket ? 

Mr. Ames. I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew he was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Continue. 

Mr. Ames. I believe at one time, if I remember correctly, I believe 
I delivered his membership card to him. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any others? 

Mr. Ames. Loretta Starvis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you spell that? 

Mr. Ames. S-t-a-r-v-i-s, who was one of the State functionaries, 
attended a meeting held in the honor of AVilliam Schneiderman, who 
was the State party director, which was held in the Norway Hall on 
Piedmont Street in Piedmont. She gave an educational talk on 
Marxism and Leninism. There was Bill Lowe. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Ames. L-o-w-e, whom I met at a functionaries' meeting held at 
Nat and Ann Yanish's home on Waterhouse Road in Oakland, I be- 
lieve in the summer of 1947, and at that time I believe he was one of 
the directors or one of the functionaries of the Young Communist 
League. 

Mr. KuNziG. This is Lowe you are speaking of ? 

Mr. Ames. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew both the Yanishes and Lowe to be members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. I did. Edith Sharpe. 

Mv. KuNZiG. Spell it, please. 

Mr. Ames. S-h-a-r-p-e. She was a member of, I believe, the Anita 
Wliitney Club, and she also had attended various closed meetings of 
the Communist Party. I believe she at one time was an educational 
director, same as myself, for the Anita Whitney Club. There was 
Leila Thompson. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know her occupation or address? 

Mr. Ames. I don't know her address, but I believe, if my memory 
serves me correct, she ran for one of the elections, I believe it was in 
1948, for the school board in Berkeley. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any other people whom you knew to be 
members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. There were Clarence and Florence Tobey. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were they husband and wife? 

Mr. Ames. Husband and wife. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know his occupation? 

Mr. Ames. No, I didn't. 

Mr. KuNziG. But you knew both of them to be members of the 
party ? 

Mr. Ames. I did. I attended meetings on the expulsion of Flor- 
ence and Clarence Tobey, one of which was held at the co-op hall on 
McArthur Boulevard in Oakland, at approximately 35th Street, I 
believe it was the fall, the late fall or early spring — it was either late 
fall of 1946 or the early spring of 1947 — and I also attended another 
meeting held on the expulsion of Florence and Clarence Tobey where 
nobody except Communist Party members were allowed. 



COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3409 

Mr. KuNZiG. Are there any other members you knew ? 

Mr. Ames. In attendance of these two meetings on the expulsion of 
Chirence and Florence Tobey there was Gertrude Warwick, Billie 
and Saul Wachter, previously named, Lloyd Lehman. I believe 
Lloyd Lelmian conducted the meetings of the expulsion. James Mc- 
Fadden, previously named, and other party members who I knew; 
James and Ida "Wood at whose home there was a functionaries' meet- 
ing held in the fall of 1049, and there were in attendance at that 
meeting a Lee Coe 

Mr, KuNziG. L-e-e C-o-e ? 

Mr. Ames. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Do you know liis occupation? 

Mr. Ames. No, I don't. Dave Blodgett. 

]Mr. Kfnzig. That is the Mr. Blodgett who testified here yesterday ? 

Mr. Ames. Yes, sir. Carl Hanson. 

]Mr. KuxziG. Do you know his occupation or address, any other 
identification ? 

Mr. Ames. No, I have forgotten what his occupation was. There 
was Frances Capelle, previously named, at functionaries' meetings 
at the Woods home was also Kuth ^ and Bob Black ; previously named. 
Buddy Green. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any names that you know definitely, people 
whom you knew to be members of the Communist Party, whom you 
have not yet named this afternoon? 

Mr. Ames. No ; I believe that is all. 

Mr. KuNziG. You testified you left the party in 1950, remained on 
Ihe fringe until about 1951. Were you reporting to the FBI until 
1951? 

Mr. Ames. We were. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did your wife ever testify at any time? 

Mr. Ames. Yes, my wife testified at the trials of the California 
commies in Los Angeles. I believe it was xVpril of 1952. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Are there any further questions, Mr. Chairman and 
members of the committee ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer, do you have a question ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, I have a couple. You said, and I made note of it — 
it may not be an exact quote, but it is pretty close — "we were instructed 
to not hold meetings in any one home for security reasons." 

Mr, Ames. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. Why would the Communists attending those meetings 
be afraid of being discovered ? What would they be afraid of ? Wliat 
were they doing that was wrong in their judgment ? 

Mr. Ames. That was at the time that the Communist Party was 
declared a subversive activity. That was when they broke up the 
clubs; they held one club meeting a month. Previous to that they' 
had held them on the average of about twice a month and in large 
groups. The squad leaders, as they were assigned, they would hold 
the more or less small meetings and have the Marxist readings, classes, 
and then the squad leaders would meet once a month with the chairmen 
and the other functionaries of the club. 



* Investigation has determined the correct name as being Gladys Black. 



3410 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Doyle. May I interrupt to ask you this question then : About 
when was this that they were declared to be subversive^ I mean the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. 1 believe that was in 1948. 

Mr. DoTi^. What declaration was that to which you refer that they 
were subversive ? 

Mr. Ames. That was published, I believe — at that time I believe it 
was Attorney McGrath, in August. 

Mr. Doyle. Then as I understand, your testimony is that after 
this declaration by United States Government Department of Justice, 
if that is it, at that particular time, that the Communist Party in the 
United States was subversive, in its judgment, these people whom 
you have named, with some others that you haven't named, began 
holding secret meetings in order that their manipulations might not 
be discovered ? 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. So am 1 to understand then, as far as you know, every 
person who attended these meetings did so secretly and covertly and 
with knowledge before they arrived there that they should hold them 
in a secret manner ? ^ 

Mr. Ames. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. For fear of being discovered to be in violation of law 
of the United States? 

Mr. Ames. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Didn't you ever have a feeling that they were wise, 
some of them, to the fact that you were an undercover man, you and 
your wife were, of the FBI ? 

Mr. Ames. No. 

Mr. Doyle. They weren't that wise. They never discovered you as 
far as you know ? 

Mr. Ames. No. 

Mr. Doyle. You stated that they felt that you and your wife were 
not part of a hard core. I remember our committee chairman raised 
that point in a different way. What do you mean by the "hard core" ? 
Why weren't you considered as members of the hard core ? You had 
been membership chairman, issued cards in the party. How much 
harder could you get? Wliat is the difference between a hard core 
and whatever other core there is in the party ? 

Mr. Ames. They felt that we were shielding behind our civil-service 
jobs. 

Mr. Doyle. You mentioned the Berkeley book store being a distri- 
bution point for the Communist Party literature of the east bay 
area. In other words, do I understand from that that they carried a 
pretty good supply of Communist literature and books and pamphlets, 
made efforts to sell them and distribute them ? 

Mr. Ames. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. You got your supply of such subversive literature from 
that store ? 

Mr. Ames. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Was that store run by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ames. It was. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you sure of that ? 

Mr. Ames. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3411 

Mr. Doyle. How far from the University of California was that 
Berkeley book store location, the Communist book store ? 

Mr. Ames. I don't rightly know. 

Mr. Doyle. Approximately? 

Mr. Ames. I know it is onVan Croft Way. I have forgotten what 
the exact address is. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I Understand the manipulations of the Communist 
Party in the east bay area was that they had that as the literature 
distribution point and center? 

Mr. Ames. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. To which you functionaries in the Communist Party 
went for your supplies ? 

Mr. Ames. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. Another question : I am interested in the IPP party as 
you described it. You said it was the first front of the Communist 
JParty. 

Mr. Ames. I said the Communist Party was using it as their front. 

Mr. Doyle. As their front. Well, in your judgment as a Commu- 
nist Party functionary at that time during those years in 1948 election 
and in Alameda County, at least, was the Communist Party in control 
of the IPP party at all, either in whole or in part? 

Mr. Ames. That I couldn't say. 

Mr. Doyle. Your knowledge didn't go that far? 

Mr. Ames. No. 

Mr. Doyle. But you know they did put up Communists for election 
to certain public offices; one, for instance, to Congress in the Sixth 
Congressional District, an avowed Communist, camouflaged as an 
IPP candidate, is that correct? 

Mr. Ames. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. I think I know that they did that in other congressional 
districts in California, too. I think I have an idea that they are still 
doing it. 

One more question, Mr. Chairman. 

I have never met you in my life nor read anything about you, but I 
want to ask you briefly the same question I asked tlie other witness 
just before you. I have no idea what your answer may be. He 
claimed his constitutional privilege, and of course whenever a man 
claims it in conscience and good faith, we can't criticize him for it, 
but you haven't claimed your constitutional privilege. Now, may 
I ask you under this law under wMch we are directed to operate as 
Members of the Congress, part of our obligation is to inquire into 
facts which may help us to recommend any necessary remedial legis- 
lation as regards subversive conduct in the United States, whether it 
comes from a foreign country or our own land. 

Have you any suggestion to this committee of any field of legisla- 
tion in addition to what is now existing already ? 

Mr. Ames. No, I don't. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, let me ask you this question, if you have an opin- 
ion, and because you ask the question I don't want you to give an 
answer if you have never thought it through to where you feel com- 
fortable in answering it : What is your thought about undertaking to 
outlaw the Communist Party as a conspiratorial aggregation ? 

(No response from the witness.) 



3412 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. Doyle. Well, now, as I stated, if you really haven't thought it 
through, I don't want to urge you to answer it because it is a ditiicult 
question. You know, for instance, that J. Edgar Hoover says "No." 
If you don't know that, I want you to know that that is his public 
statement. Have you any suggestion on it, or would you rather not 
answer it ? 

Mr. Ames. I would rather not answer it. 

]Mr. Doyle. Very well. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I want to make sure the record is 
clear that this witness was a Communist by direction of the Govern- 
ment and worked for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I want to 
be sure that is clear. 

Mr. Velde. Certainly. I would just like to ask one question, if you 
have any opinion or if you can estimate the number of active Com- 
munist Party members in the east bay area in the year 1951. 

Mr. Ames. The nearest association I had with them from the fringe, 
I would estimate to my knowledge about 150. 

Mr. Velue. Mr. Ames, the committee certainly thanks you for the 
patriotic work which you have done, both as an undercover agent for 
the FBI and for coming here to be a witness before this committee and 
giving us the valuable information which you have, which certainly 
should help us in considering and passing remedial legislation to 
handle the problem of the Soviet conspiracy. With the thanks of the 
committee 

]Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, we should like to keep this witness 
under subpena for the present. 

Mr. Velde. The witness will be kept under subpena at the present 
time until fuither notified. You are dismissed at this time with the 
committee's thanks. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Charles Duarte. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub- 
committee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Duarte. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES ALERED DUARTE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, RICHARD GLADSTEIN 

Mr. KuNZTG. Would you please state your full name for the record? 

Mr. Duarte. Charles Alfred Duarte. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell it for the stenographer? 

Mr. Duarte. D-u-a-r-t-e. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would counsel please state his name and office address 
for the record? 

Mr. Gladstein. My name is Richard Gladstein, 240 Montgomery, 
San Francisco. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Duarte, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. DuARi-E. Oakland, Calif., August 2G, 1912. 

Mr. KuNzTG. Your present address is what? 

Mr. Duarte. 1005 102d Avenue, Oakland. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliere are you employed, sir ? 

Mr. Duarte. The committee knows where I am employed, Mr. 
Counsel. The committee subpena ed me as "You are hereby com- 
manded to" 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3413 
Mr. KuNziG. Your answer- 



Mr. DuARTE. Charles Diiarte, president, Local 6, ILWU. 

Mr. KuNZTG. Then your answer is that you are president of Local 
6, ILWU, is that correct? 

Mr. DuARTE. And was subpenaed as such, and the committee knows 
it. 

Mr. KuNziG. We want to get it on the record. 

Mr. DuARTE. The committee was correct, and I was subpenaed. 

Mr. KuNZTG. All rifjht. Mr. Duarte, there was testimony before 
this committee by Mr. Kosser a few days ago as follows— — 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Kosser said : 

There is a person that I worked with in the warehouseman's union by the 
name of Duarte who came down to L. A. 
Question. Will you spell the name, please? 

Mr. SciiERER. Just a minute. Mr. Counsel, the witness can't hear 
what you are saying. He is listening to his counsel. 

Mr. Velde. Does the witness want to advise with his counsel? 
(At this point ^Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 
Mr. Duarte. I am sorry. 
Mr. KuNziG (continuing to read :) 

QrrEsnoN. Will you spell the name, please? 

Answer. I think it is D-u-a-r-t-e. I worked with him ; I know him as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. I have been in meetings with him. 

Question. Do you know his first name? 

Answer. I have forgotten his first name. 

Question. Can you identify him more specifically? 

Answer. Well, he was an organizer when I met him for the International 
Warehousemen's Union, and he later became one of the top leaders of the ware- 
housemen's union. I don't know what he is doing now. 

Question. Do you know what nickname he was known by? 

Answer. I think it is "Chili" ; I don't know, I have forgotten. 

Question. What was the date upon which you became acquainted with him 
and knew him to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Answer. It was in 194.3; 194.3 and then in 1944. 

Question. Do you know where he resided? 

Answer. I don't know whether he resided in Frisco or Oakland. 

Question. Can you give any further identifying information regarding him? 

Answer. Well, I was introduced to him by one of the wheelhorses of the 
Communist Party in the warehousemen's union named Dawson ; I can't think of 
his first name, but he was one of the beginners of the Communist fraction of the 
warehousemen's union, and he is the one who introduced me to him. 

Let me ask, Mr. Duarte, are yo\} known in addition to Charles 
Duarte by the name of Chili ? 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 

Mr. Duarte. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you the Charles "Chili" Duarte mentioned in the 
testimony by Mr. Rosser? 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.-) 

Mr. Duarte. Mr. Chairman, there are a lot of people named Rosser. 
Are you referring to the Rosser who has a police record in Los 
Angeles ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I am referring, Mr. Duarte, to the Rosser who testi- 
fied here 

Mr. Duarte. I am trying to identify — you asked me, Mr. Counsel. 
I am asking you if this is the Mr. Rosser who has a long police record 
in Los Angeles. Is this the Rosser you referred to ? 



3414 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. I am referring to the Mr. Rosser who testified here 
a few days ago. I believe you know the testimony. 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I think again we should caution 
counsel. A number of counsel have been doing it repeatedly, putting 
into the witness' mouth the answer that he should give. The job of 
the counsel in this case is to advise the witness as to his legal rights 
and not to testify for him. 

Mr. Velde. The suggestion is certainly well taken. 

Mr. ScHERER. And it would be well for the bar association of this 
county to check into the conduct of some of the counsel who have ap- 
peared before this committee during the last 4 days. 

Mr. Duarte. Mr. Chairman, I would like to answer, if I might. 
Mr. Congressman — I don't know your name. 

Mr. Scherer. Scherer from Ohio. 

Mr. Duarte. Thank you. 

Mr. Velde. I would suggest to the committee counsel that the ques- 
tion be withdrawn, and I would like to ask this question : Is the tes- 
timony which has just been read inaccurate in any respect? 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 

Mr. Duarte. Well, this could have to be broken down, Mr. Chair- 
man. I want to go back to what the Congressman said. I thought 
I was entitled to counsel here. I want to know 



Mr. Velde. Let us break it down this way : Have you ever been a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 

Mr. Duarte. Mr. Chairman, since you are not allowing me to 
answer questions, I resjDectfully — let me preface it. I want to state 
that as an American that I recognize that this committee is a duly 
authorized committee of the House of Representatives and has cer- 
tain powers and duties, and I respect those powers and duties, but 
this committee should recognize that as an American I have certain 
rights and privileges. 

Mr. Velde. The committee certainly does recognize that. 

Mr. Duarte. Based on those rights and privileges I respectfully 
decline to answer that question. I want to tell you my reasons why, 
based on the fifth amendment. After seeing what can be done to 
a man — and I pick one specifically, Robert Condon, a Congressman — 
1 am not going to run the risk 

Mr. Velde. That is not a subject matter before you. There is no 
question pending about him. The question was about you and your 
past conduct. You have refused to answer that question on the 
basis of the fifth amendment. 

Now, may I ask you, are you jDresently a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Duarte. Same answer, same grounds, but I want to make clear, 
Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Velde. Is there any reason why this witness should further 
be retained ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir, no further questions. 

Mr. Duarte. Just a minute. 

Mr. Velde. Any questions, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN FRANCISCO AREA 3415 

Mr. DuARTE. I thought that the Congressman made the statement 
that if you answered the question, took the fifth amendment in good 
faith, you would get some courtesy here. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed, and I would hesitate to have 
you removed, Mr. Witness. 

(At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further witnesses today, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Gladstein. Mr. Chairman, when you say "dismissed," do you 
mean he is excused ? 

IMr. Yelde. Excused. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further witnesses. 

Mr. Duarte. Wliat do I do with the second subpena ? I have been 
subpenaed twice, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. No further witnesses, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. The witness has been excused. 

Mr. Duarte. I just asked, Mr. Chairman, because I was subpenaed 
twice. I thought I was going to come back on the next one. I have 
two subpenas. 

Mr. ScHERER. I move we adjourn. 

Mr. Velde. At this time the committee will stand in adjournment 
until 9 : 30 tomorrow morning. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 10 p. m., the hearing was recessed, until 9 : 30 
a. m., Saturday, December 5, 1953.) 



INDEX 



Individuals 

Faea 

Alexander, Herschel 3403 

Ames, Peggy 3405 

Ames, William Donald 3400-3412 (testimony) 

Ames, Mrs. William Donald 3401 

Andersen, George 8355-3367 

Attarian, Aram 8377-3379 (testimony) 

Barnes, Carroll 3371-3372 (testimony) 

Barlow, Edward 3382 

Barlow, Elizabeth 3382, 3403 

Baroway, Leo — 3403 

Batiste, Calvin 3382 

Benet, James Walker II 3892-3400 (testimony^ 

Benet, William Rose_^ 3893 

Berkeley, Martin 3393 

Black, Gladys 3382, 3406, 3409 

Black, Robert (Bob) 8379, 3380-3384 (testimony), 3386, 8406, 3409 

Blodgett, Charles David 3350, 

3352, 3354, 3359, 3360, 3370-3872, 3875, 3378, 3379, 3883, 3409 

Bodkin, Wesley 3400 

Bowen, Mildred . 3351-3353 (testimony) 

Bridges, Harry 3300 

Brodsky, Mr 3383, 3884 

Browder, Earl 3393, 3899 

Browder, William 3393, 8399 

Brown, Bimbo , 3403 

Busk, Charlie ^ 3383 

Calloway, Marie 3882 

Calloway, Warner . 3882 

Canright, Marjorie__ 3388, 3384 

Capelle, Frances 3382 

Capelle, Roger 8382 

Chown, Paul 3372 

Clark, Tom . 8398, 3399 

Clifford, Bill 3406 

Coe, Lee 3409 

Condon. Robert 3414 

Crockett, Bill . 3401, 3402 

Crockett, Rosalie ^ 8401 

Dawson 8413 

Dickerson. Kathleen 3401 

Duarte, Charles Alfred . 3412-3415 (testimony) 

Edwards, George 8406 

Eisenhower, President 8388 

Eisler, Joe 33S2 

Eisler, Marge 3382 

Elson, Henry 3353-3355 

Fagerhaugh, Ole 3353, 3367-3371 (testimony) 

Gilliam, James 8402 

Gilliam, Louise 3402 

Gladstein, Richard 3861, 3412-3415 

Green, Walter (Buddv) 3407, 3409 

Grover, Bertha 3382 

Halpern, Ray 3382 

Hanson. Carl 3382, 3409 

3417 



3418 INDEX 

Page 

Hee, Katlileen Griffin 3349, 3350-3351 (testimonv) 

Hill, Dickson 3354, 3355, 3372, 3385. 3389 

Hoover, J. Edsar 3412 

Hultsren, Ruth 3400. 3407 

Hultffren, Wayne 340G, 3407 

Kalman, Bernice 3382, 3383. 3407 

Kalman, Eugene - 3382 

Kalman. Herb 33S2 

Kalman, Ted 3382, .3407 

Kalman, Teresa 3382 

Keller. Mr 3402 

Kennedy, Elisa Manfredi 34(X) 

Lauirliery. Willie 3382, 3403 

Lehman, Fanny 3407 

Lehman, Lloyd 3407, 3409 

Levin. Edward :'400 

Lindsmith, Rosalind 3-102 

Lowe. Bill 3408 

Manley, Katrina 3382 

Manley, Jack 3382 

Marrow, Ozzo 3382 

May, Ruth McGovney 3382 

Mays. Andrew 3382 

McFadden, James 3403, 3409 

McFadden, Jim 3382 

McGrath, Attorney 3410 

Melia, Joseph (Joe) 3353-3355 (testimony). .3403 

Miller, Hugh B 3380-3384 

Morris, Luther 3407 

Nelson, Steve .3398 

Neville, Bob .3407 

Newman, Edward 3372-3374, 3.377-3379 

Olshausen, Geor e .3384-3.392 

Parsons, Frank 3382 

Peters, Hazel .3383 

Price, Jake 3402 

Price, Marge 3402 

Riggs, John N 3400 

Roberson, Doris Brin Walker {see also Doris Brin Walker) 3384- 

3392 (testimony) 

Rosser, Lou 3413. 3414 

Sabinson, Lee 3393, .3399 

Schlipf. Paul 3355-3367 (testimony) 

Schneider, Isidor 3393. 3399 

Schneiderman, William .3408 

Sharpe, Edith 3382, 3408 

Smith, Eleanor 3382 

Spector 3388 

Speiser, Lawrence .3351-33.53, 3371-3372, 3374-3377 

Spiecer, Morgan V 33.50-.3.3.51 

Starvis, Loretta 3408 

Thompson, Jim 3393 

Thompson, Leila 3.382. 3408 

Thompson. Ray 3382. 3406 

Thompson, Robert 3393 

Thorner, Molly .3402 

Tobey, Clarence 3408. .3409 

Tobey. Florence 3408, 3409 

Treuhaft, Robert E .3367-3371, 3.384 

Truman, Mr .3.388 

Twining , .3.388 

Wachter, Billie 3409 

Wachter, Saul 3409 

Walker, Doris Brin (see also Doris Brin Walker Roberson) 3383, .3.384 

Walker. Freddie 3382 

Ward, Douglas WJiitney 3374-3377 (testimony) 



INDEX 3419 

Page 

AVarwick. Gertrude 33S2, 3409 

Wliite, Harry Dexter 3388 

Whitney, Anita 3382, 3383, 3408 

Williams, Bill 3402 

Williams, Fred 3382 

AVilliams, Joy 3372-3374 (testimony) 

Wood, Ida 3409 

Wood, James 3409 

Yanisli, Ann 3382, 3408 

Yanish, Nat 3382, 3408 

Younce, Dick 3382 

Organizations 

Abraham Lincoln Battalion 3398 

Abraham Lincoln Brigade ^- 3398, 3399 

American Civil Liberties Union 3390 

American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California 3351, 3371 

Army Air Forces 3404 

California CIO Council 3356 

Civil Rights Congress 3403 

Congress of Industrial Organizations 3356, 3357, 3359, 3365, 3306, 3401 

Department of Justice 3410 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 3354, 

3355, 3372. 3382, 3383, 3401, 3402, 3406. 3409, 3410, 3412 

Independent Progressive Party 3403, 3405-3408, 3411 

International Brigades 3398 

International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union, Local 6 3413 

Norway Hall, Oakland 3406, 3408 

Political Affairs Committee of the Commvuiist Party 3361, 3363 

Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda County 3350, 

3352, 3354, 3360, 3362, 3370 

Supreme Court 3352, 3353, 3388 

University of California at Berkeley 3411 

Young Communist League ^ 3408 

Young Democrats of California, Inc 3400 

Young Democrats of San Francisco, Inc 3400 

Publications 

National Guardian 3383 

'New Masses 3393, 3399 

Oakland Tribune 3381, 3382 

Peoples World 3376, 3403, 3407 

San Francisco Chronicle 3388 

San Francisco Examiner 3386 

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