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Full text of "Investigation of improper activities in the labor or management field. Hearings before the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field"

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riGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



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HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SELECT COMMITTEE 

ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 

LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 

EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGKESS 

SECOND SESSION 

PURSUANT TO SENATE RESOLUTIONS 74 AND 221, 
85TH CONGRESS 



AUGUST 21, 26, 27, 28, AND 29, 1958 



PART 38 



Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the 
Labor or Management Field 










r§o* 1 



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SELECT COMMITTEE 
ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 

LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 

EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

PURSUANT TO SENATE RESOLUTIONS 74 AND 221, 
85TH CONGRESS 



AUGUST 21, 26, 27, 28, AND 29, 1958 



PART 38 



Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the 
Labor or Management Field 




UNITED STATES 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

WASHINGTON : 1958 







Boston Public Library- 
Superintendent of Documents 

DEPOSITORY 



SELECT COMMITTEE ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR OR 
MANAGEMENT FIELD 

JOHN T . McCLELLAN, Arkansas, Chairman 
IRVING M. IVES, New York, Vice Chairman 
JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota 

SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North Carolina BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona 

FRANK CHURCH, Idaho CARL T. CURTIS, Nebraska 

Robert F. Kennedy, Chief Counsel 
Rtjth Young Watt, Chief Clerk 



CONTENTS 



James R. Hoffa and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, 
Chauffeurs, Warehousemen, and Helpers of America 

Page 

Appendix --- 14533 

Testimony of — 

Baker, Robert Bernard 14143, 14190 

Bellino, Carmine S 14209 

Berra, Louis 14522, 14524 

Bledsoe, Mary Lou 14317 

Bommarito, Joseph 1 4296 

Bowers, B. B., Jr 14213 

Bright, Jack 14449 

Broeies, Harold L 14467, 14476 

Brougher, Ruth Ann 14230 

Buck, Oscar C 14458 

Burke, Tom 14192, 14210 

Callahan, George F., Jr 14326, 14330 

Camie, Lawrence J 14237, 14249 

Cortor, Harold Donald 14385 

Cristiani, Matador E__ 14462 

Dandridge, Barney 14379 

Dotten, Herbert 14439 

Douglas, Thomas L 14218 

Kickmever, Thomas 14247, 

14300, 14321, 14364, 14384, 14403, 14476, 14502, 14523 

Farrell, Lew 14267, 14349 

Ferrara, Joseph Paul 14359, 14364 

Ford, James 14272 

Foster, Brvan A 14365 

Gooding, Flovd E 14425 

Hartman, Howard 14392 

Harvill, George Andrew 14400, 14403 

Harvill, Wilbourne 14400, 14403 

Hendricks, Herman • 14381, 14384 

Hines, Robert L 14414 

Karsh, Harry 14477, 14481 

Korhn, Vernon F 14467, 14476, 14480 

Lagenbacher, Irwin 14287, 14448, 14506 

Lewis, Robert F 14492, 14506 

May, Walter R 14453 

Mitchell, Oldron A 14279, 14288 

Moran, Thomas L 14253 

Poole, John Frederick 14320, 14322 

Powell, Hvman J 14429, 14481 

Reichardt, Philip 14407 

Sheridan, Walter J 14330 

Shoulders, Louis, Jr 14400, 14403 

Sparks, Harold 14306 

Walla, Elmer E 14510 

WYinheimer, Edward F 14342 

in 



IV 



CONTENTS 



EXHIBITS 



GO. Shoreland Hotel bill dated June 25, 1957, billed to 
Central Conference of Teamsters in the amount of 
$2,018.48 

07. A series of 34 receipts in various amounts given to 

International Brotherhood of Teamsters Joint 

Council 43 and signed by Robert Baker 

G7A. A series of receipts in various amounts given to 
International Brotherhood of Teamsters Joint 
Council 43 and signed by Robert Baker 

08. Bal Harbour Hotel bills, Central States Conference of 

Teamsters expenditure vouchers and check No. 
4124 dated August 15, 1950, payable to Bal Harbour 
Hotel in the sum of $5,009.00, drawn by Central 
Conference of Teamsters and signed by James 
Hoff a and H. J. Gibbons 14209 

09. Letter dated December 14, 1955, addressed to Tom 

Burke, Bal Harbour Hotel, Miami Beach, Fla., and 

signed by H. J. Gibbons, enclosing check 14210 

G9A. Check No. 3100 dated December 14, 1955, payable to 
Tom Burke in the amount of $471 drawn by Central 
Conference of Teamsters and signed by James 
HoffaandH. J. Gibbons 14210 

70. Letter dated June 28, 1955, addressed to Harold J. 

Gibbons, Central States Driver's Council and 
signed Tom Burke, written on stationery of the 
Bal Harbour Hotel 14211 

71. Check No. 8009 dated October 19, 1954, payable to 

Thos. E. Burke in the amount of $11,815.94, drawn 

by Joint Council No. 43 14213 

72. A lease executed June 9, 1955, between Barbara-Ann, 

Inc., through Manager V. B. Bowers, Jr., and Land- 
lord Roslyn Churnin 14225 

73. Lease made September 17, 1955, between Tom Doug- 

las and Mrs. Ruth Brougher and Barney Baker 

for furnished house. Keystone Pointy Fla 1 4220 

74. Newspaper article in the St. Louis Globe-Democrat, 

January 27, 1949, carrying the story of the merger 
of CIO United Distribution Workers representing 
warehouse and store employees in the St. Louis 
area with Local 088 of the Teamsters 14242 

75. Cashiers check No. 109137 dated January 20, 1959, 

payable to Mercantile-Commerce Bank & Trust 

Co. in the amount of $30,300 14242 

70. Escrow agreement dated January 20, 1949, between 
local 088 and Mercantile-Commerce Bank & Trust 
Co. and Lawrence J. Camie 14247 

77. Four pictures of Yellow Cab No. 3 that was pulled 

out of the Mississippi River 14287 

78. Correspondence between Oldron A. Mitchell and 

Pete Saffo of Local 405, Taxi Cab Drivers local, 
St. Louis, stating charges brought against Oldron 
A. Mitchell by Joseph Bommarito and William 
Rudolph 14290 

79. File No. 3333 from Faith Hospital, 3300 North Kings- 

highwav Boulevard, St. Louis, of Joseph Bom- 
marito admitted December 5, 1953 14299 

80A. Check No. 2087, dated August 14, 1957, payable to 
F. M. Lacey in the amount of $1,000 drawn by 

Esco Exhibitors Service Co 14332 

"May be found in the files of the select committee. 



atroduced 
on page 


Appears 
on page 


14144 


14533 


14145 


(*) 


14145 


(*) 



(*) 

1 4534 
14535 

14530 

14537 
(*) 

(*) 

(*) 
14538 

(*) 
(*) 

(*) 

(*) 
14539 



CONTEXTS 



EXHIBITS -Continued 



Introduced 
mi page 



80B. Chc.-k No. 2320 dated September L6, 1957, payable to 
F. M. Lacey in the amount of $1,000 drawn by 
Eseo Exhibitors Service Co 14332 

80C. Check No. 2520 dated October L6, 1957, payable bo 
F. M. Lacev in the amount of 81,000 drawn !>■, 
Esco Exhibitors Service Co 14332 

81A. Letter dated February 19, 1958, addressed to Middle 
Atlantic Transportation Co., Inc., attention Paul 
E. Kluding, sighed by (!. F. Callahan, Jr., president, 
Exhibitors' Service Co 1433G 

MB. Letter <l:0e!l February 6, 1,958, addressed to Middle 
Atlantic Transportation Co., attention Mr. Elud- 
ing, signed bv G. F. Callahan, Jr., president, 

Exhibitors' Service Co 14336 

82. Hotel bill from Hotel Kings- Way, St. Louis, dated 
January 1, 1954, to Joe Ferrara in the amount of 
$141.18 14363 

83 A. Side view picture of Allen Cab Co. 145 showing bullet 

holes 14369 

83B. Back view picture of Allen Cab Xo. 145 showing bullet 

holes 14369 

84. Receipts signed by L. Shoulders in the amounts of $25 

and $50 dated September 13 and 15, 1954, "Lost 
time, Granite City Strike, Shoulders, G. Reinhart, 
Guccione, Barnes, Giordano" 14402 

85. Picture of Lou Farrell together with his attorney 

holding up files and records of Mr. Farrell which were 
subpenaed 14406 

86. Document, transcript of meeting held Thursday, July 

10, 1952, at which Mr. Karsh appeared; questions 
rsked by carnival workers and answers given by 
Mr. Karsh 14419 

87. Letter dated Apiil 22, 1952, addressed to Hyman 

Powell, president, International Jewelry Workers 
Union, signed Joseph M. Jacobs, attorney, of Chi- 
cago 14432 

88. Letter dated May 20, 1952, addressed to Hyman 

Powell, Hotel Statler, Boston, signed "Joe" 14432 

89. Letter dated June 23, 1952, addressed to Joseph 

Morris, general president, International Jewelry 
Workers' Union, signed George Meany, secretary- 
treasurer, American Federation of Labor 14433 

90. Letter dated June 24, 1952, addressed to Joseph 

Jacobs, Esquire, and signed by Hyman J. Powell, 
International Jewelry Workers' Union 14434 

91. Extracts from minutes of a meeting of the executive 

council, American Federation of Labor, Ambassador 

Hotel, Atlantic City, N. J., August 11-15, 1952... 14435 

92. Letter dated July 25, 1952, addressed to George 

Meany, secretary-treasurer, Ameiican Federation 
of Labor, signed by Joseph Morris, general presi- 
dent, International Jewelry Workers' Union 14436 

93. Letter dated July 1 1 , 1952, addressed to Joseph Jacobs, 

Esq., signed by Hyman J. Powell 14437 

94. Letter dated August 14, 1952, addressed to Carnival, 

Amusement, and Novelty Device Workers, Local 

450, and signed by Joseph Morris 14438 

*May be found in the files of the select committee. 



Appeal 



1 1540 
14541 

1 1542 

14543 

(*) 
(*) 

(*) 

(*) 

(*) 



14544 

(*) 

(*) 
14545 

(*) 

(*) 
14546 

14547 



VI 



CONTENTS 



EXHIBITS— Continued 



Introduced 
on page 



Appears 
on page 



94A. Letter dated August 20, 1952, addressed to Harry 
Karsch, president, Carnival, Amusement, and 
Novelty Device Workers Local 450 and signed by 
Joseph Morris, general president, International 
Jewelry Workers Union 14438 14548 

95. Memoranda dated June 4, 1956, to commanding 

officer, labor squad, from members of labor squad, 
subject: Report on activities at the circus grounds; 
and report of incident, investigation of 14448 (*) 

96. Letter dated May 7, 1956, addressed to Nicholas 

Morrissey, general organizer, IBT, signed by H. J. 
Gibbons, secretarv-treasurer, Central Conference of 
Teamsters, and check stub for $5,000 14453 14549 

97. Minutes of branch membership meeting, Oak Room, 

Hotel Bradford, Boston, Mass., May 9, 1956 14458 (*) 

98. Records of the ledger account of the dues of Harold 

Brocies, Vernon F. Korhn, Thomas E. Adams, 
Carl J. Fowler, Robert A. Garner, George Hercha, 
Harry Karsh 14476 (*) 

99. Constitution, International Brotherhood of Teamsters, 

Chauffeurs, Warehousemen, and Helpers of America, 14476 (*) 

100A. Check No. 2751, dated August 31, 1955, payable to 
Harry Karsh in the amount of $2,000 drawn by 
Central States Conference of Teamsters, signed bv 
James R.Hoffa . 14488 14550 

100B. Check No. 2759, dated September 9, 1955, payable to 
Harry Karsh in the amount of $1,000, drawn by 
Central States Conference of Teamsters, signed by 
James R. Hoffa and H. J. Gibbons 14488 14551 

100C. Check No. 2771, dated September 16, 1955, payable to 
Harry Karsh in the amount of $1,000, drawn by 
Central States Conference of Teamsters, signed bv 
James R. Hoffa and H. J. Gibbons . 14488 14552 

100D. Check No. 2867 dated October 10, 1955, payable to 
Harry Karsh in the amount of $1,000 drawn by 
Central States Conference of Teamsters and signed 
by James R. Hoffa and H. J. Gibbons 14488 14553 

101. Research Bulletin, Joint Council of Teamsters No. 13 

dated January 15, 1958: St. Louis Teamsters 

negotiating summary for December 1957 14495 (*) 

102. Roster of local unions, International Brotherhood of 

Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Warehousemen and Helpers, 

October 1, 1957 14496 (*) 

103. Minutes of a meeting June 8, 1955, taken from files of 

Joint Council 13 14498 (*) 

104. Memorandum dated July 17, 1958, to Harold J. 

Gibbons from John F. English re: Local union No. 

447 membership based on per capita payments 14505 (*) 

Proceedings of — 

August 21, 1958 14143 

August 26, 1958 14237 

August 27, 1958 14325 

August 28, 1958 14413 

August 29, 1958 14491 

*May be found in the files of the select committee. 



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



THURSDAY, AUGUST 21, 1958 

United States Senate, 
Select Committee on Improper Activities 

in the Labor or Management Field, 

Washington, D. G . 

The select comittee met at 10:30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Reso- 
lution 221, agreed to January 29, 1958, in the caucus room, Senate 
Office Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select 
committee) presiding. 

Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Senator 
Irving M. Ives, Republican, New York; Senator John F. Kennedy, 
Democrat, Massachusetts; Senator Frank Church, Democrat, Idaho; 
Senator Karl E. Mundt, Republican, South Dakota; Senator Carl 
T. Curtis, Republican, Nebraska. 

Also present : Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Adler- 
man, assistant chief counsel; Paul J. Tierney, assistant counsel; 
John J. McGovern, assistant counsel; Carmine S. Bellino, account- 
ant; Pierre E. Salinger, investigator; Leo C. Nulty, investigator; 
James P. Kelly, investigator; Walter J. Sheridan, investigator; 
James Mundie, investigator; John Flanagan, investigator, GAO; 
Alfred Vitarelli, investigator, GAO ; Ruth Young Watt, chief clerk. 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

(Members of the committee present at the convening of the session 
were Senators McClellan, Ives, and Goldwater.) 

The Chairman. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Raker. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT BERNARD BAKER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, GEORGE FITZGERALD 

The ( 1 haikm an. All right, Mr. Kennedy, will you proceed ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Baker, we were talking yesterday about your 
being registered at the Shoreland Hotel. I would like to ask you 
some questions about the bill there. 

The Chairman. The Chair presents to you a photostatic copy of 
a bill of the Shoreland Hotel, dated June 25, 1957, and asks you to 
examine it and state if you can identify it. 
(A document was handed to the witness.) 

The Chairman. Do you identify the photostatic copy ? 

Mr. Baker. I do, Senator. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 66. 

14143 



14144 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(Document referred to was market "Exhibit No. 66," for refer- 
ence, and will be found in the appendix on p. 14533.) 
Mr. Baker. What date was that, Senator ? 
The Chairman. June 25, 1957. 

Mr. Kennedy. It has here "November 6, 1956, cash advanced, 
$1,200." 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing with $1,200 ? 
Mr. Baker. I was organizing in the Chicago area at that time, 
and assigned to some companies and in the line of organizational 
work I had visitations with many of the workers and bought dinners 
and gave out money here and there where it was needed, where they 
asked for support, and along that line I used that money at that 
time. 
Mr. Kennedy. Where are your supporting vouchers for $1,200 ? 
Mr. Baker. Excuse me ; I wanted to complete the answer. I be- 
lieve that some might have been a carryover, too, sir, on that $1,200. 
Mr. Kennedy. Where are your supports for that cash advance of 
$1,200 of union funds ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I make my report to my conference of just what 
I do, and how I spend the money, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you spend this money, or where are the 

vouchers showing specifically how you spent $1,200 of union funds? 

Mr. Baker. Well, many people that I organize, I don't go into 

restaurants and coffee places and ask for a voucher, sir, and I don't 

ask a man if he asks me for $10 or $20 to meet the rent ■ 

Mr. Kennedy. You were getting your regular salary and expenses 
in addition to that. Over this period, starting November 6, 1956, 
through April 4, 1957, at the Shoreland Hotel, in addition to your 
hotel bill, your regular charges, and your telephone bill which we 
discussed yesterday, and your regular expenses, you had cash ad- 
vances of $1,850. What I am trying to find out is whether you have 
any vouchers or any support for those payments whatsoever? 

Mr. Baker. I might have sent some vouchers in, and I don't recol- 
lect. I might have sent to the conference some vouchers, and I don't 
recollect. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any now, or can you produce any? 
We have gone through the records and there are no vouchers what- 
soever for this. 

Mr. Baker. I haven't any, and I don't believe I have any. I don't 
believe I had any. I might have some, and I don't know. I don't 
send every one of them in. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't the hotel management complain about the 
fact that this bill was so high ? 
Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you start to choke the hotel manager, and 
did you get into a fight with him ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recollect any big choking department. 
Mr. Kennedy. Did you get into a fight with him? 
Mr. Baker. A fight? 
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. We might have argued over different things, but I 
never fought with him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you grab him by the neck? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14145 

(A! this point. Senator Kennedy entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Baker. I don't recoiled grabbing him by the neck. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is I!».'i7, and do you deny that you grabbed 
him by the Deck because he had been complaining aboul your hill? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recoiled grabbing him by the neck. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you grab him at all? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recollect grabbing him at all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, this is less than a year and a half ago, and 
didn't you grab him by the neck and choke him because you thought 
he complained about your bill '. 

Mr. Baker. I do not recollect, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you deny that you did it? 

Mr. Baker. I do not recollect, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, another thing of interest about this 
payment, it says, ''Payment has been O. K.'d by J. II." And who 
is J. II? 

Mr. Baker. You would have to ask the person who put that down. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anybody by the name of J. H. in the 
Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Baker. I do, and you do, too, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is it then? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I don't know, it could be different names, and 
it could be John Hanna, and it could be any name. I know Jim 
Hoffa, if you want to know. That is J. H. I am sorry, Mr. Kennedy, 
1 am not in the initial department. 

Mr. Kennedy. You know it is James Hoffa of the Central Con- 
ference of Teamsters, don't you? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why don't you answer that? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know what you are trying to lead to. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you look at these documents, please? 

The Chairman. I hand you here a series of the receipts that you 
have given to the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Joint 
Council 43, I believe most of them are joint council 43, and one may 
be to the local. I believe there are 34 in this package that I hand 
to you, and I ask you to examine them and state if you identify them. 

(Documents were handed to the witness.) 

(At this point Senator Curtis entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Baker. I recognize them, Mr. Senator, sir. 

The Chairman : I hand you another group of six, I believe. That 
first group may be made exhibit No. 67. 

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 67," for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee. ) 

The Chairman. I show you another group of these documents. 

(Another group of documents were shown the witness.) 

Mr. Baker : I recognize that, Senator, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, they may be made exhibit No. 67-A. 

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 67-A," for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. In the first group I handed you, they range in 
date, I believe, from the 1st of January, or January 8, 1954, through 
August 26, 1954 

Mr. Kennedy : Before I ask you about these, I want to go back a 
second to the Shoreland Hotel. You said you couldn't remember about 



14146 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

choking the owner. I have his name here, and I wonder if that might 
refresh your recollection. It is Mr. Bellows. Does that refresh your 
recollection ? 

Mr. Baker : I had an argument with him. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan, Ives, Kennedy, Goldwater, and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy : And that you started to choke him near the cashier's 
cage ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Baker : I don't recollect that, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy: Wasn't it a fact that you were kicked out of the 
hotel, and his wife said at that time she wouldn't have you in the hotel 
because you were a killer ? • 

Mr. Baker : I was never kicked out of that hotel, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy: You didn't stay in the hotel after you started to 
choke the owner, the manager of the hotel, did you ? 

Mr. Baker : I had an argument. I don't recollect choking that man. 

Mr. Kennedy : Did you grab him ? 

Mr. Baker: I don't remember that at all. I had an argument 
with him. 

Mr. Kennedy : You don't deny that you grabbed him and somebody 
separated you % 

Mr. Baker : I do not recollect that at all. 

Mr. Kennedy : You do not deny it ? 

Mr. Baker 
that. I know we had an argument. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to her report, you grabbed the husband 
by the throat and started to choke him near the cashier's cage. 
Somebody came along and pulled you apart, or otherwise there would 
have been very severe damage to the husband. She stated to you 
at that time that you were a killer and you were not allowed to stay 
in the hotel. 

Is that correct ? That is the information we have. 

Mr. Baker. I do not recollect anything along them lines. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you don't deny it. I want to ask you about 
this: What are these vouchers that you submitted, miscellaneous in- 
cidental expenses, Pontiac, $100; miscellaneous incidental expenses, 
Pontiac, $100, January 8, January 14, January 16, another $100; 
February 5, $100 ? It continues during the year, almost every week, 
for $100. What were you doing with this money ? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, I was organizing. Taxicab strikes up 
there — we had a strike with a company; we had all the people out 
in the street. We organized a new industry up there at that time. 
It was the trash industry, scrap metal. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where are the vouchers 

Mr. Baker. And I took all that money that you see there, that 
$100 a week, or whatever it may be — I didn't watch every figure — 
and used that for the members to be in that local union to see 
that they had a few dollars in their pocket, a few dollars to take 
home, to put on the table for the wife and kids, the ones that might 
be striking, and others that I took out and dined, to talk to them 
and give them the benefits of what the union can do for them, and 
what we have done for them in the past in that particular indus- 
try, and showed the advantages of union organization, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD 14147 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that what you were doing with the money down 
with Miss Brougher in Miami I 

Mr. Baker. That is another question I will answer when we come 
to it, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. I am coming to it. To keep a little food on the 
table for her; is that right % 

Mr. Baker. Partly so. 

Mr. Kennedy. Union funds were used for that purpose? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the money that you used for 
that purpose ? She said between $20,000 and $25,000. 

Mr. Baker. I know. It was nothing like that, You have, Mr. 
Kennedy — you have bills there of what she says, the hotel, the house 
rental. You add them up and that is it, plus the fact that $500 or 
$2,500 might have been given to the attorney for — what does he 
call it? An appeal on her case. And to help her out I went and 
got the money and sent to her and gave to her. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the money ? 

Mr. Baker. And supported her. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the money you gave to her to 
support her? 

Mr. Baker. I borrowed money and held it in my pocket and doled 
it out as I needed it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you borrow 7 the money from? 

Mr. Baker. I borrowed around $4,000, I believe, Mr. Kennedy, to 
the best of my recollection it was 4, from Mr. Mert Wortheimer, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is the fellow we discussed yesterday ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Wortheimer? Who is he? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Mert Wortheimer was one of my bosses down in 
the Colonial Inn, in Hollywood, Fla. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is the partner of Mr. Lansky ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if he is a partner of Mr. Lansky, sir. 
but I do know he was one of the bosses down there. W^. 

Mr. Kennedy. You borrowed how much money from him ? 

Mr. Baker. The best I can recollect near $4,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. When? 

Mr. Baker. In a period of time when Miss Brougher was in trouble. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you borrow 7 it from him ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember the day or the year, Mr. Kennedy. 
I am trying to be exact, the best I know how 7 , and give you a truthful 
answer. I am not going to perjure myself, sir. I don't know 7 ex- 
actly what day it was. 

Mr. Kennedy. You wouldn't perjure yourself if you tell the truth. 

Mr. Baker. I am telling the truth. If you try to make me answer, 
Mr. Kennedy, and I can't truthfully answ r er, I don't remember the 
date 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you borrow the money in 1954 or 1955 ? 

Mr. Baker. When was Miss Brougher first in trouble, sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you first meet Miss Brougher ? 

Let's start there. 

Mr. Baker. Well, I met her — I don't remember the exact year. I 
met her down in Hollywood, Fla. 



14148 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. When? 

Mr. Baker. I can't recollect now exactly when. 

Mr. Kennedy. During the 1940's? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. When she was in trouble, after she had been con- 
victed of manslaughter ? 

Mr. Baker. After she was convicted, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You became friendly with her after she became 
convicted of manslaughter ? 

Mr. Baker. I met her. Was introduced to her after that. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was 1955. 

Mr. Baker. Is that the year ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes; she was convicted in November 1954. 

Mr. Baker. Well, if you have that date, that is what it is. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you started supporting her after that ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, it does not happen that fast, sir. It did not 
happen that fast. There was a lot of — a meeting, an introduction. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who introduced you ? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Tom Burke. 

Mr. Kennedy. Of the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. O.K. What happened ? 

Mr. Baker. I met her, and I came down there for other purposes 
than to meet Miss B rougher. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you come down there for ? 

Mr. Baker. A survey on front doors of hotels that lease cars and also 
the taxi industry in the greater Miami area, which isn't organized, and 
I was to get sort of a survey to find out the worth of a taxi union 
charter being put there, 

Mr. Kennedy. Who sent you down there ? 

Mr. Baker. I asked Mr. Gibbons at that time, and I believe — this 
is to the best of my recollection, now. I don't know whether it was lie 
or someone else in the central office. But I got it through the central 
office, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it Mr. Hoffa that sent you down there to Miami ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe this was Mr. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. I believe it was Mr. — I can't. I got the memo to go 
down there on the job, and I got it through the central office, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. "Who sent you down there? You had some dis- 
cussions with somebody before you went down. Did you talk to Mr. 
Hoffa about it? 

Mr. Baker. Not necessarily, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was giving you your orders in 1955 ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I had taken mine from Mr. Gibbons or Mr. Hoffa, 
I believe, when I was in the central conference then. But I believe — 
to the best of my recollection, Mr. Kennedy, I can't tell you exactly 
how it was done. There is sometimes a notation left on your desk. 

Mr. Kennedy. "Go to Miami" ? 

Mr. Baker. That is right, and it mentions what for, what purpose. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did it have any name on it ? 

Mr. Baker. I imagine it did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whose name was on it ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14149 

.Mi-. Baser. I eannol recollect. It is easy for me to tell you ii bras 
been authorized. It doesn'1 make m bit of difference. There is noth- 
ing wrong with it. But I don't remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. You w&ni down there to Florida and worked on tin- 
taxicabs? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tom Burke introduced you to Miss Brougher? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then you started supporting Miss Brougher? 

Mr. Baker. Well, 1 met Miss Brougher and we got talking, and I 
found out through her about her troubles. 

Mr. Kennedy. That she had been convicted of manslaughter? 

Mr. Baker. All of that. And that she was not guilty. There was 
a lot of circumstances involved, so forth and so on. 

I told her, I said, "I will try to do whatever I can do to help you. 
I haven't got too much money, but it might be I could." 

It went on that way. She needed $500, so forth and so on, she was 
sick and she could not stay at a certain motel, she needed a different 
environment. I got to liking the woman and I went for the money. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you borrowed $4,000 at that time? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I don't know if it was at that period of time, 
sir, or if it was later. 

Senator Ives. May I interrupt there a moment? 

The Chairman. Senator Ives. 

Senator Ives. I would like to ask the witness if he in any way 
doubts the word of Miss Brougher. 

Mr. Baker. Her statements that she made ? 

Senator Ives. Yes. Do you have any occasion to doubt her? 

Mr. Baker. Certainly. 

Senator Ives. Is there anybody you don't doubt? 

Mr. Baker. I don't doubt a lot of people that I don't doubt, sir. 
But I am just saying I do doubt. You asked the question. I do doubt 
her word. 

Senator Ives. Did you doubt her word as to when you became 
acquainted with her? 

Mr. Baker. Women do funny things to people. 

Senator Ives. Well, I wouldn't get into that. 

Mr. Baker. And she did funny things with me, making me think 
along her line. 

The Chairman. All right. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you borrow the money during the period you 
were down there and she was in difficulty ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was during 1955 ? 

Mr. Baker. I imagine so. She was out on appeal for a year. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had to get the money to support her and pay 
these bills. Did you go to Wortheimer and get the money from him 
then ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, I met Mr. Wortheimer and got the money from 
him, Mr. Kennedy. 



14150 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. During this period of time, you were paving her 
bills? 

Mr. Baker. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who else did you get the money from \ 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember, but I borrowed money from a few 
people. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who else did you get money from ? 

(At this point, Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Baker. I can't recollect. Have you got something there to re- 
fresh my memory, Mr. Kennedy ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, I am asking you. This is 1955. I want to find 
out from you who you got the money from. 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember. I don't remember, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Plow did you support her, then, with these bills ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, there wasn't no $11,000 that they mentioned. It 
was money. But it wasn't any $11,000. I borrowed money. I bor- 
rowed some from a bank, I think. I believe I also took some money 
from a bank up in the St. Louis area. 

The Chairman. You say you took some money ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. Borrowed. Loaned, Senator. I borrowed.. You 
know. Make application for a loan. 

Mr. Kennedy. You would know what bank ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. Manchester Bank. I believe that was it at that 
time. I am not sure. 

Senator Mundt. Did you have a cosigner to the note ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. I think I was good for it. 

Senator Mundt. Well, you ought to know. You w T ere good for how 
much ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. I don't remember the exact amount. 

Senator Mundt. You surely remember whether you had anybody 
cosign the note or not. 

Mr. Baker. No. I don't, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. You do not ? 

Mr. Baker. I really don't. 

Senator Mundt. You don't know ? 

Mr. Baker. I said to the best of my knowledge I don't know. I 
mean I don't really remember, sir. 

I can't recall it, Senator. 

Senator Gold water. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Goldwater. 

Senator Goldwater. Before you leave this subject, Mr. Counsel, I 
have a question. 

Mr. Baker, you took an interest in this lady because you wanted to 
help her; is that correct? 

Mr. Baker. Help her and like her. 

Senator Goldwater. Help her and like her ? 

Mr. Baker. I liked her. 

Senator Goldwater. During the course of your liking her, you gave 
her $2,500 for her attorney ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe also that is correct, sir. I believe so. To the 
best of my recollection, I don't remember, but I believe so. It could be. 

Senator Goldwater. Have the Teamsters ever been active in the 
elections in Florida ? 

Mr. Baker. Not that I know of, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14151 

Senator Goldwater. Have they ever been active in the election of 
judges 8 

Mr. Baker. Not that 1 know of. 

Senator Goldwater. Did you ever have it in your mind that you 
might be able to fix (his case for her \ 

Mr. Baker. J never had in mind I could fix a case for her. 

Senator Goldwater. Yon did not think — 

Mr. Baker. No; just the attorney telling me that he could probably 
do her some good. 

Senator Goldwater. The attorney thought he could iix it with 
money \ 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if he said "fix it," but that he could get an 
appeal; it takes money to get an appeal. You have to make a trip to 
Tallahasse, the capital, see people there, to get this appeal, and he be- 
lieved that if the right was done he could get her out. 

Senator Goldwater. How much money would it take to do right? 

Mr. Baker. Well, he kept asking for trip money, $500 a trip to 
Tallahassee. 1 Ie made a few of them. I don't know about how many 
he made. 

Senator Goldwater. You don't know how many he made ? 

Mr. Baker. Maybe one. Two or three, I believe. 

Senator Goldwater. How much more than $2,500 did you give him ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I mean, Miss Brougher, she had some money, too, 
and she often told me that if she didn't have it, she can always get it, 
and help out with her own case as well. She had some friends. 

Senator Goldwater. If you wanted to fix a case like that in Florida, 
who would you go to? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I don't know a thing about the fixing of cases, 
and I wouldn't know nothing about whom to go to. But, Senator, in 
all due respect to the judicial bodies, I never had or never did ever 
know how to approach anything like that, or if there would be accept- 
ance to anything along them lines. I never tried and I never will. 

Senator Goldwater. Did the attorney think that he could get it 
done ? 

Mr. Baker. He said that on its merits, that this girl is innocent, 
that this girl actually was innocent of the crime. 

Senator Goldwater. So you had no idea at any time that either 
your influence or your money might have an effect on this case? 

Mr. Baker. Money? Given to the lawyer. Influence I don't know 
about, Senator, but the money could help. I was impressed that it 
could help in writing briefs and what not to prepare the case, along 
those lines of conversation, Senator. 

Senator Goldwater. You were going to write the briefs? 

Mr. Baker. No. The lawyer. The attorney. 

Senator Goldwater. Youdon't understand a "fix" ? 

Mr. Baker. You read the paper about fixes here and fixes there. 
I mean, Senator, in all due respect, I read papers. I am not that dumb, 
where I don't know what they mean about fixes and things like that. 
The baseball scandal back a year ago— the fix. You read papers. 
Y r ou know what it means. 

Senator Goldwater. But you don't know anything other than what 
you read in the papers about a fix? 

Mr. Baker. That is right, because I am not a fixer, Senator. 



14152 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Goldwater. How about your money? Money can be a fix? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I will tell you how I laid this money down to 
this attorney in an honest manner, in which he was going to do a job 
for this lady who he believed was innocent, and it would take money 
to do it. 

Senator Curtis. How long did you know that attorney ? 

Mr. Baker. I met the attorney through Miss Brougher. 

Senator Curtis. What was his name, Everett ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe that is the name, Everett. 

Senator Curtis. Had the first trial or the trial already transpired 
when you came into the picture ? 

Mr.' Baker. There was no trial when I met her. It was all over with, 
the trial. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever learn who secured Attorney Everett 
for her? 

Mr. Baker. No ; I imagine she might have herself, and I don't know. 
All I know is that they knew one another. 

Senator Curtis. Have you seen him lately ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Where is he ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know, Senator, outside of what I have heard 
in testimony, but I personally don't know. 

Senator Curtis. You have heard the testimony that he was later 
convicted ? 

Mr. Baker. Or jailed or something. 

Senator Curtis. For some misconduct with his own clients ? 

Mr. Baker. That is right, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. Was he the attorney who tried the case, did you 
learn that ? 

Mr. Baker. I never was in the courtroom, and I don't know. 

Senator Curtis. From your discussions ? 

Mr. Baker. I really don't know, Senator, and I don't recollect any- 
thing along those lines. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. His name was George Everett, was it not ? 

Mr. Baker. George Everett, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you state to anyone that you were going to kill 
George Everett because he was unsuccessful in trying to get the appeal 
for Miss Brougher? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, I never made that remark. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never made any remark similar to the fact that 
you were going to kill him ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never did ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have some information to the contrary, and there 
will be testimony about it. 

Mr. Baker. That is all right. Absolutely, I never did that, and I 
never said that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Or did you say anything like that, in substance ? 

Mr. Baker. What \ 

Mr. Kennedy. About killing Mr. Everett. 

Mr. Baker. In substance, what do you mean ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14153 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you say anything similar to the fact that you 
were, going to kill Mr. Everett for being unsuccessful in his appeal '. 

Mr. Baker. 1 don't recollect saying any thing like that. 

.Mr. Kennedy. Well, now you don't recollect, but do you think 
I hat you might have '. 

Mr. Baker. In substance, you say. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well something like "I am going to kill him," or 
''break his back,'' or "break his neck"? 

Mi-. Baker. I might of said something like that, and I can't recall, 
and 1 might have said he deserves a punch in the nose or something, 
and I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. This goes a little further, "1 will put him in con- 
crete blocks," or "I will break his back or kill him," or something 
like that? 

Mr. Baker. That is not my expressions, and that is not the way I 
talk. 

Mr. Kennedy. What expression did you use when you w T anted to 
kill someone? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy 

Mr. Kennedy. What ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't use any expressions, Mr. Kennedy, and I don't 
do the things that you are trying to put me in mark that I do, 
and you are trying to accuse me of things that are not right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Tom Douglas? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall the name, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you state to Tom Douglas in Miami that you 
were going to kill George Everett ? Did you tell him that you were 
going to kill him for being unsuccessful in the appeal? 

Mr. Baker. I don't even remember Tom Douglas' name, sir. I 
might remember him if I saw him, but I don't remember the name. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you deny that you made such a statement? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall ever saying that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you say you don't recall and before you said 
you denied it. 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, you have had some witnesses here, Mr. 
Kennedy, that have lied in this courtroom. 

Mr. Kennedys Yes; we have. 

Mr. Baker. You have, where I am concerned and talked on me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just answer the question. 

Mr. Baker. It is not true. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just answer the question, did you state to Tom 
Douglas or anyone else that you were going to kill George Everett 
for his being unsuccessful in the appeal ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall, Mr. Kennedy, ever saying anything like 
that, and I just don't recall. 

Mr. Kennedy'. You denied it at the beginning and now }^ou say you 
can't remember. 

Mr. Baker. I do not recall. 

Mr. Kennedy. First you can't remember choking or trying to choke 
to death the man in the hotel in 1057 and now you can't remember 
whether you said you were going to kill this man. 

Mr. Baker. I do not recall, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get any of the money, or do you know Mike 
Capo! a in Miami? 

21243— 59— pt. 38 2 



14154 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you arrange for him to put up any of the money 
for Miss B rougher? 

Mr. Baker. 1 did not arrange for him to put up any money for 
Miss Brougher. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he put up any money for Miss Brougher? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't know anything about that ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long have you known "Trigger Mike" Capola? 

Mr. Baker. Mike Capola, and I don't know about the "Trigger." 
It is Mike Capola, Mr. Mike Capola. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who has been identified as one of the most notorious 
gangsters in the United States. 

Mr. Baker. Well, Mr. Kennedy, that is paper talk. 

Mr. Kennedy. One of Albert Anastasia's best friends. 

Mr. Baker. All right, fine. I want to answer your question. I 
knew Mr. Mike Capola back when I was working at the inn, in 1945 
or 1946, I believe, to the best of my recollection, and he was a patron 
there, and also, I believe, and I am not sure, where I met him, in a 
restaurant in New York, when I was living in New York. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you used to talk to him on the telephone, 
what would you talk to him about ? 

Mr. Baker. I told him about — the only time I called him was in 
reference to trying to help Ruth Brougher financially, as she needed 
some money to put up for an attorney. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did suggest that to him, then ? 

Mr. Baker. I didn't mention any money, sir, and I said, "Can you 
do something for Ruth Brougher," and he said, "What is the matter?" 
I said, "She needs some money, and could you help her," and he said, 
"I haven't any money myself," and I said, "Why don't you let me 
send Ruth over to your house and talk to her?" And he said, "Send 
her over and I will talk to her," and so she went over to his house and 
that is all I know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you did make the arrangements ? 

Mr. Baker. You said for money, Mr. Kennedy. You said arrange- 
ments for moneys. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is what you said. 

Mr. Baker. And she more or less, you see, I take it for granted that 
she received it, and I don't know if she received any money. 

Mr. Kennedy. You called him and made the appointment and said 
she was in difficulty with money, and made the arrangements for her 
to go over there ? 

Mr. Baker. For the visitation ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I hate that name, but a visit. 

Mr. Baker. All right, visit. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the jewelry that you had down there? 
Did you have a lot of jewelry ? 

Mr. Baker. I didn't have, I don't know about a lot of jewelry. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you selling stolen jewelry, or what ? 

Mr. Baker. Miss Brougher had jewelry in a pawn shop. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about other jewelry? Did you handle any 
other jewelry ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't handle jewelry. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EN THE LABOR FIELD 14155 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you sell any other jewelry 1 

Mr. Baker. I don'1 'sell no jewelry, and I am not a jewelry salesman, 
Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never did? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know, I might havehada ringofmyown. 

Mr. Kennedy. 1 am not talking about that, I am talking about in 
L955, were you, Tom Burke, and Miss Brougher dealing in jewelry, 
stolen jewelry, or other kind oi jewelry? 

Mr. Baker. I never dealt with Miss Brougher or Mr. Tom Burke, 
whose name was mentioned, in the selling of jewelry. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. All right, now yourself, did you ever handle the 
sale of jewelry? 

Mr. Baker. I handled jewelry that belonged to Miss Brougher. 

Mr. Kennedy. .Just those four pieces? 

Mr. Baker. Four pieces. 

Mr. Kennedy. Those are the only four pieces that you handled '. 

Mr. Baker. Now, you are telling me four pieces and it could be 
more than four pieces, and I don't know. I want to be up and above 
board, and I want to answer these questions, and I don't want to be 
steered into something here. If you have the facts, tell me and I will 
answer them truthfully, and I am not going to hide anything, and I 
am not here to disguise anything, and if I can remember I will tell 
you. 

Mr. Kennedy. The reason, Mr. Baker, that I said 4 pieces is that 
you said 4 pieces yesterday, and that is the only reason I used that fig- 
ure. You said you handled four pieces for her. 

Mr. Baker. Well, we had better correct it, and maybe it could be a 
little more, and I don't know. I don't know what you mean by pieces, 
and if you take a chain off a lavaliere, it becomes two pieces, and I 
don't know, and I don't want to get hurt here, I want to give you the 
right answer. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you transport any jewelry from Miami up to 
New York for instance? 

Mr. Baker. Not to New York. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you transport jewelry to ? 

Mr. Baker. I didn't transport it. 1 took the jewelry that I took out 
of the pawnshop. * 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you take out of the pawnshop ? 

Mr. Baker. The jewelry that Miss Brougher and her husband or 
ex-husband, I found out later 

Mr. Kennedy. How many pieces were there ? 

Mr. Baker. The jewelry that they had pawned. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many pieces? 

Mr. Baker. Excuse me, can I talk to my attorney ? 

The ( Jhairman. Perhaps he can tell you. 

(Witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. As far as I can recall it was four pieces. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, did you handle any other jewelry other than 
those four pieces? 

Mr. Baker. As far as I can recall, it is all it was, four pieces, as far 
as I can recall. 



14156 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you handle any other jewelry other than the 
jewelry of Miss B rougher that you got out of the pawnshop ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall handling any other jewelry ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you transport or take any box of jewelry up to 
New York, for instance? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, I don't recall doing anything like that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't recall, and isn't this something that you 
would remember as a Teamster official dealing in jewelry ? Isn't this 
outside of your ordinary duties and responsibilities? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, I ain't as bad as it sounds, the way you 
are laying it down. 

Mr. Kennedy. I just want to find out. 

Mr. Baker. I respect you very much in the way you ask me these 
questions and I want to answer them, and I feel at home answering 
the questions here and I am not excited and it is nice and easy and I 
want to keep myself feeling that I can answer and not get excited and 
make mistakes. 

The Chairman. Just don't get excited, and answer the questions. 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you make any trips up to New York from Miami 
in 1955 ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe I did. 

Ma*. Kennedy. When you went up from Miami to New York at that 
time, did you carry jewelry with you ? 

Mr. Baker. It might have been, it could have been the same things 
that I took out of the pawnshop, it could have been. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could there have been any additional jewelry other 
than the jewelry that you took out of the pawnshop ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall any other. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, can you say or give me an unequivocal answer 
regarding the handling of jewelry? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall any. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just couldn't recall whether you were handling 
jewelry down there ; dealing in or selling jewelry ? 

Mr. Baker. I wasn't selling any jewelry, I don't believe. Of 
course, outside of Miss Brougher, and probably I would want to get 
rid of something for money that she might have needed for her case, 
and along that line, it could have happened, and I don't know. I 
might have tried to help her in that instance when she needed money 
with a piece of jewelry and that I don't recall, but it could have 
happened. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan, Ives, Kennedy, Mundt, Goldwater, and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. You testified to it yesterday. Today you say you 
don't recall. You testified yesterday that you tried to help her and 
dispose of her jewelry. 

Mr. Baker. I didn't say exactly that, Senator. 

The Chairman. What did you say, exactly ? 

Mr. Baker. The jewelry that I took out of the pawnshop, the two 
rings I disposed of, and the other pieces I gave to her daughter to hold 
for her, for when she came out of jail. 

The Chairman. You said you did not remember just a moment ago, 
what you did. But that is what you testified yesterday. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 141o7 

Mr. Baker. You arc a gentleman, Senator. At leas! you bring it 
to me so 1 can understand it; I am very happy that you corrected it. 
Believe me. 

The Chairman". Yes,sir. I will help you. 

Mr. Baker, Thank you. 

The CHAIRMAN. Now, aside from (hose four pieces of jewelry that 

you got out of the pawnshop belonging to Miss Brougner, did you 
handle any jewelry for yourself or anyone else, in trying to sell it or 
dispose of it? 

( At this point, the witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I absolutely don't recall anything along them 
lines. I can't recall it. 

The Chairman. You just can't? 

Mr. Baker. Honestly. 

The Chairman. Did you transport any? Did you take any with 
you from Miami to New York, or New Jersey, or anywhere in that 
area ? 

Mr. Baker. I just can't recall, Senator. 

The Chairman. You just can't recall ? 

Mr. Baker. I just can't. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Tom Burke? Was he dealing in 
jewelry down there? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know about Tom Burke. You will have to 
ask Tom Burke. 

Mr. Kennedy. I want to know what you know about Tom Burke? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know about him with any jewelry, sir. To the 
best of my recollection, I do not know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get $1,500 for doping a racehorse? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know nothing about racehorses or doping race- 
horses, and I never received any $1,500. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to Mollie Baker, she testified that you 
got $1,500 for doping a racehorse. Is that correct ? 

Did you tell her that? 

Mr. Baker. Mollie Baker is a very vicious person. She tells lies. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell her that? 

Mr. Baker. Sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell her that? 

Mr. Baker. Did I tell her that? 

Mr. Kennedy. That you got $1,500 for doping a racehorse? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes? 

Mr. Baker. I did not tell her that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You remember that ? You are positive about that ? 

Mr. Baker. Why should I talk about horses? I don't know 
nothing about horses. 

The Chairman. I say, you are positive about that ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator 

The Chairman. Well, answer "yes" or "no." 

Mr. Baker. Let me speak to my lawyer, please. 

The Chairman. Yes. 



14158 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Now, are yon positive? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, may I put it in my own words ? 

The Chairman. Well, I know two words that will answer it, yes 
and no. 

Mr. Baker. Well, I never doped a horserace, or never doped a horse 
whatever. And as far as telling Mollie Baker anything along- that 
line, it is incredible that she should even say that. 

The Chairman. Did you tell her ? 

Mr. Baker. There are so many lies that the woman says. 

The Chairman. Did you tell her ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, there are a lot of things she told me, and 
I don't know — — 

The Chairman. I don't want to know what she told vou. Did you 
tell her? 

Mr. Baker. Tell her about doping a horserace ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Why didn't you say so ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I mean, it irks me when I hear someone telling 
a lie about that. 

The Chairman. I want you to keep calm, not hurried. Keep calm. 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir, Senator. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just going back for a moment to Ruth Brougher, 
did you arrange for her to get these two homes, the "Had Pier Way," 
and the other one, "Lost Acres?" 

Mr. Baker. Miss Brougher, I believe, arranged herself to get the 
places. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you gave her the 

Mr. Baker. I helped to take care of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. You financed it ? 

Mr. Baker. I would help. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you stay at these places, yourself ? 

Mr. Baker. In the entire time that she was there, I think her 
daughter was there, too, and the children, and I would stay in a room 
in that particular apartment or house. 

Mr. Kennedy. So this was 

Mr. Baker. But it wasn't any length of time, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. This would be the Had Her Way and Lost Acres ? 

Mr. Baker. No, there was only two places. 

Mr. Kennedy. Two places, Lost Acres and Had Her Way and then 
there was the Bal Harbor Hotel ? 

Mr. Baker. I think Lost Acres and Had Her Way 

Mr. Kennedy. Those are two places, two separate homes. 

Mr. Baker. No, I didn't — where is the Had Her Way at ? Do you 
know? Do you have that address, Mr. Kennedy? I will tell you 
whether or not I did have anything to do with it. One was in North 
Miami, and the other one was the Bal Harbor. That is the only two 
I know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Its manager was Mr. Bowers, located at 9400 South- 
west 67th Court, a house and one and a quarter acres of land, swim- 
ming pool, $225 a month. 

Mr. Baker. I only know of one house rental, and the penthouse at 
the Bal Harbor. Them two places I know of. I don't know of the 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14159 

other place, and I wouldn't remember which was the name of either 
house. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did von tel] anybody that you were going to — did 
you tell anyone down in Miami that you would send them an automo- 
bile because they were nice to Ruth Brougher? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. I don't recollect sending anybody an automobile, I 
mean saying that I would. 

M r. Kennedy. You don't remember that ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't, sir. 

(At this point, Senator Mundt withdrew from the hearing room.) 

Mr. Kennedy. There was a fur robbery up in Detroit which Mrs. 
Mollie Baker testified about, and she stated that you told her that Gus 
Zapas had the furs hidden. Did you tell her about that ? 

Mr. Baker. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that Gus Zapas had the furs hidden 
from the robbery, the warehouse? 

Mr. Baker. It is incorrect that Gus Zapas had anything to do with 
any robbery. 

Mr. Kennedy. Excuse me? 

Mr. Baker. It is incorrect that I said Gus Zapas had anything to 
do with any robbery. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he hide the furs of the Detroit robbery that you 
told about? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know that Mr. Zapas had anything to do with 
furs, hiding them, or any other attachment with furs. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you help carry Karsh in the organization of the 
carnivals? 

Mr. Baker. He was working for the carnival organization, and I 
worked on one or two incidents in helping the organization on carni- 
vals. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell anyone in Florida, did you tell them 
in the course of your helping Karsh that on one occasion you had 
knocked down some of the bleachers and killed some of the people? 

Mr. Baker. I never did that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever knock down any bleachers and kill 
anybody at a carnival? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never told anybody that ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever tell Tom Douglas that down in Miami, 
Fla.? 

Mr. Baker. Who is Tom Douglas? I don't even know that name. 
That name isn't familiar to me at all. I can't know it. If I had 
known him, I would have known his name. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever knock down any bleachers in any 
carnival \ 

Mr. Baker. I never knocked down any bleachers in any carnival 
or anywhere. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you pay for Ruth Brougher when she went up 
to New York City? 

Mr. Baker. I believe I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the source of that money? 



14160 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LAEOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. Incidental money. That was just traveling money. 
That wasn't anything like you mentioned. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was union funds, was it? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. These kinds of incidental moneys, incidental ex- 
penses of $100 ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. You can't show that, Mr. Kennedy, because 
that never happened. Oh, these? I am sorry. Excuse me. 

I mean pertaining to Ruth Brougher and the trip to New York. 

Mr. Kennedy. I can't find any vouchers for any of the money you 
spent, $1,200, for instance, advanced at the hotel or any of these. 
There is $1,850 at the Shoreland Hotel. There are no vouchers what- 
soever, Mr. Baker. 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, do I have to go around seeking all the 
people now to get O. K.'s of vouchers, that I gave them the money? 

I can possibly get around there and do it. 

Mr. Kennedy. That, of itself, is questionable. But when you sup- 
port this woman down in Miami, and she says that you spent between 
$20,000 and $25,000, and you don't have any source of the income 
Avhatsoever, you say you spent $7,500 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if I spent that, I might have. I might 
have, Mr. Kennedy. But — I am sorry. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were getting $125 or $150 a week from the 
Teamsters Union. There is no source for this money whatsoever. It 
makes your actions more than questionable. 

Mr. Baker. Well, it isn't questionable when I answered your ques- 
tion, and you asked where I got the money and I told you. 

Mr. Kennedy. Ruth Brougher stated that you were getting pack- 
ages from employers. 

Mr. Baker. Oh, my God. I am sorry, sir. Excuse me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And she was present when you counted out $2,500 in 
cash. 

The Chairman. Is that true ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall me ever taking $2,500 in cash in a pack- 
age. I don't recall that. 

The Chairman. Did you get any money under the door or around 
the place where employers had left it for you ? 

Mr. Baker. Employers don't leave nothing for me, Senator. 

The Chairman. I asked you, did you? You can answer that "yes" 
or "no." 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever repay Mert TVortheimer ? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Wortheimer ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Kennedy. You still owe him the money ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much do you owe him ? $4,000 ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe around that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you repay the other people you borrowed from ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall paying. I did pay some people here and 
there. I don't recall paying them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you repay the bank ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14161 

Mr. Baker. The bank? You have to pay that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were up in Buffalo for a while, were you not? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing up in Buffalo? 

Mr. Baker. Organizational work, working for the particular local 
unions. 

Senator Goldwater. Mr. Baker, before Mr. Kennedy gets into this 
next phase, I have to leave but I wanted to ask a question that is not 
related to Miami or to Buffalo. Have you ever attended a Democrat 
National Convention? 

Mr. Baker. Yes ; I attended the conventions. 

Senator Goldwater. Were you there in 1952 ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 

Senator Goldavater. And 1956 ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I was visiting in 1956. I was at a convention a 
couple of days. 

Senator Goldwater. Were you a delegate ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Goldwater. Have you ever been a delegate ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Goldwater. Were you an alternate ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Goldwater. You just went as a visitor ? 

Mr. Baker. Just to see what is going around. 

Senator Goldwater. That is all. 

Senator Ives. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt on this Buffalo 
business ? 

The Chairman. Let the chairman clear up one thing and then I 
will be ready to go into any other phase of it. Yesterday, Mr. Baker, 
you testified regarding a pistol incident down in St. Louis. You 
testified yesterday that you bought that pistol from a taxicab driver, 
somebody you didn't know. 

Mr. Baker. Yes. sir. 

The Chairman. You had told the police down there that you got 
the pistol out of a pawnshop — where? 

Mr. Kennedy. Indianapolis. 

The Chairman. In Indianapolis. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know what I told the policeman. 

The Chairman. You don't deny whether you told him that ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. 

The Chairman. *You know whether you deny it or not. 

Mr. Baker. I know the story I told was true, yesterday. 

The Chairman. Which one, the one you told here or the one you 
told the police? 

Mr. Baker. The one I told under oath here. I said that I bought — 
I am sorry. What was the question ? 

The Chairman. Just one question. Which was true where you got 
the pistol, at the pawnshop or from the taxi driver? 

Mr. Baker. From the taxicab driver, Senator. 

The Chairman. That is the truth ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. Let's go into that just a little further. 
Did you tell Mr. Gibbons you had bought that pistol ? 



14162 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you tell him you were carrying- that pistol on 
your job? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Gibbons 
about pistols at all ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did j-ou know that all of the people doing the 
same work you were, associated with Mr. Gibbons, there, were carry- 
ing pistols ? 

Mr. Baker. I did not, 

The Chairman. Don't you know the truth is that Mr. Gibbons got 
the pistols for you, for you and for the others, and armed you ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator 

The Chairman. Don't you know that to be the truth ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, where I am concerned, I know that is not the 
truth. 

The Chairman. You know that is not the truth? 

Mr. Baker. Where I am concerned. I don't know about anything 
else. 

(At this point Senator Gold water withdrew from the hearing 
room.) 

The Chairman. Don't you know that he went to the chief of police 
or to some of the city or county law-enforcement officials there and told 
them in advance that he had to arm his men for protection. That he 
was furnishing them pistols to carry while doing that work ? 

Don't you know that to be a fact ? 

Mr. Baker. I do not know that to be a fact. Excuse me, Senator. 

Excuse me one minute. 

The Chairman. You are still under oath. 

Mr. Baker. I want to speak to my attorney for a moment. 

The Chairman. Go ahead. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. I don't know what Gibbons did, sir, which explains the 
question. 

The Chairman. All right. We will find out. 

Senator Ives. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Ives. 

Senator Ives. The subject of Buffalo was just brought up here. 

The Chairman. I have one other question. Don't you also know 
that he bought the holsters for those pistols and furnished you with 
them ? 

Mr. Baker. I do not know that he furnished anyone with holsters, 
sir. 

The Chairman. Do yon deny that he gave you one ? 

Mr. Baker. He didn't give me any, sir. 

The Chairman. He didn't provide you with a holster? 

Mr. Baker. He did not give me a holster, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed. Senator Ives. 

Senator Ives. I have a report coming from Buffalo, from a repre- 
sentative of one of the newspapers out there, which reads as follows : 

In early 1956, Barney Baker was in Buffalo. Report is he was there to 
organize and to raid jurisdiction. Was supposed to have gotten into trouble 
with CIO unions in this connection. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 141 63 

Is that all right so far? 
Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Ivks. Well, I am curious to know how much you will agree 
to on this, because I have every belief that it is true. 

At the time, the Teamsters were seeking to get hack into the Buffalo Federa- 
tion of Labor, which they had left some time earlier, and thus to have a voice 
in the forthcoming merger of A.FL-CIO union councils of Buffalo. 

State Senator Stanley Bower, who is also a labor leader (hy the way, I know 
him), got into an argument over politics at the Hotel Buffalo with Jim Miller, 
of the Buffalo CIO Council. Miller knocked down Bower. Then Bower called 
in Barney Baker and Robert Smith, president of the Teamsters Joint Council 
No. 46 in Buffalo. 

Do you know anything about that ? 

Mr. Baker. I know about an argument in the bar. 

Senator Ives (reading) : 

The argument adjourned to a tavern near the hotel. Another fight started. 
Smith hutted Leonard Koepe — 

Is that Koepe? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know the name. 
Senator Ives (reading) : 

Of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, member of the ex- 
ecutive board of the Buffalo Federation of Labor. Koepe punched Smith. 
Then Baker punched Koepe. Then Miller pulled Baker's legs out from under 
him and Baker went down on the floor. 

Did that happen ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. Senator? 

Senator Ives. All right. Just wait. [Reading:] 

Frank Smith, Bob Smith's brother, also joined in the melee. When it was 
over, Baker disappeared from Buffalo and wasn't seen there again. 

What have you got to say about it ? 

Mr. Baker. That is a newspaper story. 

Senator Ives. Well, it wasn't printed in any newspaper. It came 
to me from a source which I believe to be reliable. 

Mr. Baker. I know it has been in the newspaper, Senator Ives. 
I know it has been in the paper. 

Senator Ives. Have you been in Buffalo since ? 

Mr. Baker. I have been in Buffalo after the so-called argument. 

Senator Ives. When were you last in Buffalo? 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember the time. You got the date on that 
thing. 

Senator Ives. Well, that is the last time you are supposed to have 
been in Buffalo. That was 1956. Have you been there since? 

Mr. Baker. That is right, I believe that is the year. 

Senator Ives. You left Buffalo and that was the last they have 
seen of you. 

Mr. Baker. I believe my work was done, organizational work. 

Senator Ives. It sounded that way. All right, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. While you were in Buffalo, what union were you 
working for there? 

Mr. Baker. It was a truck driver's local, local carters and road 
local. 

Mr. Kennedy. What local number was that? 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember the number. 



14164 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you trying to do ? 

(At this point, Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Baker. To organize oil drivers, truck. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Mr. Stanley Clayton up there? 

Mr. Baker. Stanley Clayton ? I believe I do, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The head of the local up there ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes ; he had a local there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you come to Mr. Clayton with some friends of 
yours to take over the furnishing of all the eyeglasses for the union 
members while you were up there ? 

Mr. Baker. Excuse me, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

( At this point. Senator Kennedy withdrew from the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Kennedy. Does Mr. Fitzgerald want to help him? 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I can't help him, except legally. 

Mr. Kennedy. Local 449, Buffalo. 

Air. Baker. Yes; I did bring somebody in, and asked them — this 
man had glasses to give union members at a cheaper rate than they 
bought from this company. 

aIi*. Kennedy. Whom did you bring in ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember the individual exactly. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was it, Mr. Baker? You remember you 
brought somebody in to take over. 

Mr. Baker. I mean, I do favors for people. People come over and 
talk to me and they want something that sounds good, and I bring 
them in and meet them once and probably don't see them again. You 
tell me the names and it will refresh my memory. 

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to get the names from you of these 
people. 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember. I remember bringing somebody in. 
I do. When you mention names, I don't remember the names, Mr. 
Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they come up from New York City ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe somebody brought them over from — they come 
from out of town. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who brought them over ? 

Mr. Baker. Somebody introduced them to me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who? 

Mr. Baker. It is very hazy to me. I will tell you the truth; I 
don't recollect, actually. It doesn't mean too much. 

(At this point Senator Kennedy entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Kennedy. They had criminal records, did they not? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know, sir. Believe me, I don't. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you going to get out of it, Mr. Baker? 

Mr. Baker. Doing the people a favor, and they were getting glasses 
at a cheap rate, to help the rank and file, and it was nice. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did vou look into the background of these people 
at all? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. The proposition was pretty good and it would 
help the workers get a cheaper rate. 

Mr. Kennedy. They had a very good arrangement up there, then ? 

Mr. Baker. Not for glasses, and I don't believe any local had any 
glass provisions. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD 14105 

.Mr. Kennedy. They had an arrangement up there on glasses, and 
yon brought these people in. Did they not have criminal records? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if they did or not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us 1 heir names? 

Mr. Bakes. Yes, I can remember their names. There was a 
"Shorty," if 1 can remember, and 1 don't recall. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did they run their occulist? 

M r. Baker. They had a store in town. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whereabouts? 

Mr. Baker. They opened some kind of a store, and I would not 
know the street, but Mr. Clayton probably told you where they were 
Located. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't have the information on that? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were asked to leave Buffalo, were you not? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir ; I was not, 

Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't Mr. Hoffa contacted, and it was requested 
that you leave Buffalo? You were recalled because of all of the 
trouble you got into? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall anything like that happening. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was also a good deal of violence while you 
were in Buffalo, was there not? 

Mr. Baker. None that I know of, sir, and I don't recall any vio- 
lence. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you were asked to leave Buffalo, 
Mr. Baker, because of the violence there? 

( Witness consulted his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. I do not recall that, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have been doing some work lately for the 
ousted Bakery and Confectionery Workers of America, the group 
ousted from the AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Baker. Oh, yes ; Bakery and Confectionery Workers. 

Mr. Kennedy-. You have been working for them against the clean- 
up union, have you not, the American Bakery and Confectionery 
Workers ? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Kennedy, I am working in conjunction witli the 
Bakery and Confectionery Workers Union, that is my assignment, 
in organizing and telling the people the benefits they got and they 
should not leave that organization for any organization. This organ- 
ization has been organized 72 years, and a new-found organization 
comes into the picture trying to do what they have done in 72 years, and 
I think it is impossible to do anything like that, and actually and nat- 
urally I am connected with explaining the B. and C.'s actual* work that 
they have done, and what they can do. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who assigned you to that job ? 

Mr. Baker. I have the assignment to the B. and C. from the Central 
Conference of Teamsters, Mr. Hoffa. 

Mr. Kenn edy. Mr. Hoffa has assigned you to that organization ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy-. Where are you working at the present time ? 

Mr. Baker. In Chicago, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were in the Phillipsborn Candy plant in Zion, 



14166 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. I was up there in Zion, 111., working and holding meet- 
ings and so on. 

Mr. Kennedy. Helping the B. and C. ? 
Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, that was the plant that we had the 
testimony about, the one from which Mr. Cross received loans amount- 
ing to more than $90,000. That was also the plant where we found 
the "sweetheart contract,'' and the arrangement that had been made 
with Mr. James Cross. You were up there working on behalf of Mr. 
Cross' union ? 

Mr. Baker. I was there working for the Bakery and Confectionery 
Local Union, B. and C. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is Mr. Cross' union ? 
Mr. Baker. He is president of the international. 
Mr. Kennedy. They had a vote up there, did they not ? 
Mr. Baker. I worked there up to the time they had a vote. 
Mr. Kennedy. What was the vote ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I can tell you the vote we had in California where 
we beat the A. B. C, too. 

Mr. Kennedy. You tell me about the vote. 
Mr. Baker. The A. B. C. up there won the vote. 
Mr. Kennedy. What was the vote ? 
Mr. Baker. I left before it was all counted. 
Mr. Kennedy. So you don't know ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know the exact figure, and I left before it was 
counted, and about 15 minutes before they were through counting. 
Mr. Kennedy. I will tell you, then. I was 205 to 11, and you lost ? 
Mr. Baker. We got a couple of hundred in Los Angeles, Mr. 
Kennedy. We win and lose them, and you can't win them all, Mr. 
Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. I think it is very interesting that you are working 
for Mr. Cross, and for the union that has been ousted because of cor- 
ruption. Now were you offered a position of purchasing agent for 
the State of Iowa, for the liquor stores up there ? 
Mr. Baker. Never, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never had any discussion about that ? 
Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any other business interests other than 
your job as a Teamster organizer ? 
Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. No other business interests ? 
Mr. Baker. No, sir, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever had other business interests over the 
period since January 1, 1953? 

Mr. Baker. Any other business connections ? I don't believe I had 
any other business at all. 

Mr. Kennedy. You would know, Mr. Baker. 

Mr. Baker. No, I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. You haven't any other business interests ? 

Mr. Baker. No, my only income is from my work. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is your only source of income ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. No other business interests ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14K)7 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you had any business interests in Omaha, 
Nebr. 3 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. There was a club formed in Carter Lake, 
across from the Omaha line, and that was in Iowa. 

Mr. Ken nedy. What is that ? 

Mr. Bakes. There was a social club, and there was a restaurant prior 
to that, and it closed down, and then they formed this social club, and 
the fellows wanted people from different walks of life to be on his 
board, and so they could attract members. It was a nonprofit deal, 
and I told them to put my name down on the labor end of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the name of that ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall the name of that club, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The Epicure Restaurant ? 

Mr. Baker. Probably. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is 

Mr. Baker. No, this is not in Omaha, unless Carter Lake is part of 
Omaha. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any interest in the Epicure Restaurant? 

Mr Baker. No, I don't. It is nothing, I don't derive any money 
from any restaurant. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are listed as a vice president. 

Mr. Baker. That is the title that they gave me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your address is the Blackstone Hotel and you are 
listed as vice president. There is nothing about labor or anything 
in here. 

Mr. Baker. They put me down there. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is what it states as the nature of business: 

The general nature of the business shall be to own and operate restaurants 
and cafes and other eating establishments, and to buy, sell, and distribute, 
market, and deal in and deal with food and drinks and personal property of every 
nature necessary for these purposes, and the better attainment of these purposes, 
and to convey all necessary property, real or personal whatsoever where the 
same may be situated. * * * 

The principal office and place of business of the corporation shall be in Omaha, 
Nebr., but other offices and places of business may be estabilshed and main- 
tained in any other city, county, or State, and the name of the restaurant agent 
shall be, until changed as provided by law, Robert B. Baker, whose address is the 
Blackstone Hotel, Omaha, Nebr. 

What was this organization about, and what were you doing? 

Mr. Baker. I did not know 1 it was to be restaurants, and they told 
me, this fellow, or this individual told me that they wanted to use 
my name. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that? 

Mr. Baker. As officers of this club, and the name could be on there, 
and if you read the other names, I could probably remember. There 
are several officers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Stella Sittler and J. W. Shum. 

Mr. Baker. No, I don't remember those. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are there any other names? ITow about Sittler. 
Who spoke to you about this? 

Mr. Baker. A gentleman up there, whose name must be there, 
and he approached me on it. 



14168 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. It does not say anything in here about being non- 
profit, and it says you are running restaurants. 

Mr. Baker. Well, you can check on that, and you will find out that 
there was nothing along the line of profitmaking and it was a social 
organization as far as I know, a social club. 

Mr. Kennedy. There is nothing about that. 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing in Indianapolis, Mr. Baker? 

Mr. Baker. I believe I was once or twice in Indianapolis, Mr. Ken- 
nedy, and I went down there on finding a rent cab situation, why they 
did not want to join any organization. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you do any work in connection with the State 
Cab Co.? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know the State Cab Co., sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You do not ? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Mr. Probstein ? 

Mr. Baker. Outside of hearing his name mentioned in this hear- 
ing room, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell Molly Baker that you had to take care 
of some shyster lawyer up in Indianapolis ? 

Mr. Baker. I did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what happened to Mr. Probstein ? 

Mr. Baker. No, I don't knoAv, and I never met Mr. Probstein. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Hoffa ever discuss the State Cab Co. with 
you? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir, and I don't knoAv anything about the State 
Cab Co. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never went up and had any review of the books 
or anything like that in connection with the State Cab ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir ; I went in there for that cab situation. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know of any financial interests that Mr. 
Hoffa might have had in Mr. Probstein ? 

Mr. Baker. I absolutely don't know of any interest Mr. Hoffa 
might have had with any company. 

Mr. Kennedy. He never discussed that with you ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Mundt. You have had some interest in prizefighting, 
have you not? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Do you know some prizefighters throughout the 
country ? 

Mr. Baker. I know a lot of prizefighters, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. Do you know a Kid Conn, up in Minneapolis? 

Mr. Baker. Kid Conn? 

Senator Mundt. His real name is Isadore Bloom, and his fighting 
name is Kid Conn. 

Mr. Baker. He boxed away back, before my time, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. Did you ever meet him ? 

Mr. Baker. I remember him as a fighter. 

Senator Mundt. Did you ever meet him ? 

Mr. Baker. Oh, yes. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14169 

Senator Mundt. He was a labor representative, was he not? 

Mr. Baker. No ; not that I know of. 

Senator Mundt. You are talking about Billy Conn, I think; this is 
Kid Conn, a lighter whose real name is Isadore Bloom, and I think 
he represents the International Ladies Garment Workers in Minne- 
apolis. 

Mr. Baker. I never knew that he did. Is that the businessman ? 

Senator Mundt. Isadore Bloom. I presume as a business agent, 
whether he was, as a representative of the union he probably used 
his real name, and it was Isadore Bloom, but as a fighter he used 
the name "Kid Conn." 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember the fight name. Bloom is a familiar 
name to me in Minneapolis. 

Senator Mundt. Isadore Bloom. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know the first name, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. Do you know a Mr. Bloom up there who is con- 
nected with the International Ladies' Garment Workers \ 

Mr. Baker. No; not connected with no International Ladies' Gar- 
ment Workers* 

Senator Mundt. Who is the Bloom you know? 

Mr. Baker. The only Bloom I remember up there is a fellow in 
business up there, some kind of store, and I don't know what it is. 
I met him. 

Senator Mundt. Does he sell ladies' garments? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know, Senator. I know he is not an official. 

Senator Mundt. You don't know Kid Conn, then, you tell me, the 
fighter. 

Mr. Baker. If I saw him, maybe I would know him, Senator. I 
don't know him by that name. 

Senator Mundt. Does Lou Farrell have any connection with him 
in the fight business? 

Mr. Baker. Not that I know of, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Do you know Mr. Farrell pretty well? 

Mr. Baker. Yes; I do. 

Senator Mundt. He never mentioned to you that he had any con- 
nection with him? 

Mr. Baker. With Kid Conn? No; I don't know anything about 
that. 

Senator Mundt. You never went to any fights with Mr. Farrell at 
which Kid Conn might have fought ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Ives. I have been holding back with Mr. Baker until more 
testimony was developed here. 

In the first place, Mr. Baker, I want to tell you that I greatly ad- 
mire your oratorical ability. I am quite impressed with the way in 
which you expressed yourself yesterday. May I ask if you ever had 
any instruction in public speaking? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Ives. You do darn well, that is all I have to say, for any- 
body who lias not. I don't wonder that you were invited to be active 
in the campaigns of 1952 and 1956 in behalf of Mr. Harrinian. As I 
recall, in your testimony — you gave it yesterday — you stated that 
you were active in the campaign of 1952 here in the District of 
Columbia : that is correct, is it not ? 

21243 — 59— pt. 38 3 



14170 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. . 

Senator Ives. In fact, you were the cochairman of the labor com- 
mittee in the District, were you not? 

Mr. Baker. My name was there ; yes. 

Senator Ives. Your name was Robert Baker, and for some reason 
you left out your middle name, but I take it that it was you? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, Senator. 

Senator Ives. I think in that connection you must have done a pretty 
good job here, judging from the way in which Mr. Harriman carried 
the District against Senator Kef auver. It was a very one-sided thing, 
was it not? 

Mr. Baker. He won very handily. 

Senator Ives. As a matter of fact, you probably were more active 
than anybody else here in that campaign, were you not ? 

Mr. Baker. The same as if I was working for you, Senator. 

Senator Ives, What is that? 

Mr. Baker. The same as if I was working for you, Senator, and I 
admire you a great deal for your liberal outlook of life. 

Senator Ives. I appreciate the compliment, but I would rather you 
would not work for me. 

The Chairman. Proceed. Let us have order. 

Senator Ives. In that connection, I would like to go over this testi- 
mony, and it won't take very long, that Mrs. Molly Baker gave yester- 
day, and see what vou have to say about it. Thus far m connection 
with everything which Mrs. Molly Baker seems to have said, you denied 
that you told her anything. I don't know what you did while you 
were married to her. It appears you did not even talk to her. 

Mr. Baker. Senator, she did all the talking. 

Senator Ives. From somebody who was utterly silent, she seems to 
have obtained a great deal of information from you. Now, I want to 
go through this testimonv. Did Mr. Harriman, as she stated, tell you 
he was a rich man and did not want to be President for the money, but 
he wanted it for the honor ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Ives. Did vou have a picture at all times, or some of the 
time, in your home, which Mr. Harriman sent to you and on which 
was written, "To my dearest friend, Barney," and signed "Averell 
Harriman" ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, they are stock pictures, and all you had to do 
was ask the chairman of the Democratic Club on New York Avenue, 
"Can I get a picture of Mr. Harriman ?" 

Senator Ives. That is right, and I am not talking about getting a 
picture of Mr. Harriman. . . 

Mr. Baker. I want to answer the question. I want to answer it right, 
Senator. 

Senator Ives. All right ; go ahead. 

Mr. Baker. And if you want a picture of Mr. Harriman, you went 
into that agency on New York Avenue, that particular storefront, and 
asked anyone there, "Can you get me a picture of Harriman?" and 
there were pictures of Harriman that were signed, "Sincerely, Averell 
Harriman," and what other people may do or whatever they may 
write on top of that, that is their business, but Averell Harriman never 
wrote anything like that to me. All it was was, "Sincerely, Averell 
Harriman," was one stock writing. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14171 

Senator Ives. You are positive, then, that the picture did not con- 
tain any further statement than that? 

Mr. Baker. That I know. 

Senator Ives. It did not have, as Mrs. Molly Baker said, "To my 
dearest friend'' ? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Senator Ives. And "Barney"? Now, wait a minute. You are un- 
der oath, and you are always supposed to tell the truth when you are 
under oath. 

Mr. Baker. Maybe I wrote it on myself. I am a ham at heait, 
and I might have wrote it down myself, and I drop names, and I talk 
big, and I heard these respectable Senators mentioned the other day, 
"People may work for me, and I don't even know them," and they 
would say, "Me and the Senator, we are close, and I am like that." 

Senator Ives. I am not talking about what you are. 

Mr. Baker. I like to brag a lot, Senator, and they are important 
people. 

Senator Ives. I am not interested in your angle, particularly. 

Mr. Baker. I know, Senator. 

Senator Ives. I am interested, however, in the angle of the gentle- 
man for whom you were working. You know that, according to Mrs. 
Molly Baker, other people saw this picture with this autograph on it, 
and that is why I am reminding you that you are under oath. If it 
had that kind of an autograph, other people may know something 
about it. 

Mr. Baker. I am under oath, and I am telling you the truth. If 
there was more than "Sincerely, Mr. Harriman" on it, then she must 
have wrote it or somebody else, because I know I never got anything 
with more than just "Sincerely, Averell Harriman," and I did not get 
it from him ; I got it from the Democratic club. 

(Members of the select committee present at this point in the pro- 
ceedings: Senators McClellan, Ives, Kennedy, Mundt, and Curtis.) 

Senator Ives. But you don't deny that that may have been on it? 

Mr. Baker. That could be. Maybe somebody wrote it on. I don't 
know. I never seen it. 

Senator Ives. You don't deny it may have been on there, do you ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I have never seen it on there, and if she has 
the picture, and if she wrote with her handwriting, that's another 
story. I can't deny why she would done it. 

Senator Ives. There is no particular reason why she would have put 
it on there. You don't deny that others might have seen it, do you? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know that others seen it, Senator. 

Senator Ives. You had neighbors, didn't you ? 

Mr. Baker. When I was home, they weren't in the house. 

Senator Ives. You weren't home too much, as I understand. 

Mr. Baker. That is right, Senator. You couldn't talk to the 
woman too much. That's another answer to that one. 

Senator Ives. You don't deny it may have been on there? 

Mr. Baker. I have never seen it. 

Senator Ives. You don't deny it has been on there? Yes, or no. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. All I can answer is that I never saw it on there. 

Senator Ives. Then you don't deny it may have been on there ; is that 
right? 



14172 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. I have never saw it on there, Senator. 

Senator Ives. You are not answering my question. 

Mr. Baker. I have never saw the name on there, I mean the signature 
as you tell me. 

Senator Ives. You don't deny it may have been on there, though ? 

Mr. Baker. I never saw it on there, Senator. 

Senator Ives. Well, never mind. We will let that go. You are not 
denying that it may have been on there, though ? 

Mr. Baker. I never saw it on, Senator. 

Senator Ives. I am not asking you what you saw. Now we will go 
ahead to some more. 

She said, referring to my questioning about where it was hung in the 
house : 

Yes, it was given to Mr. Baker by Mr. Harriman, and I am sure some of my friends 
have seen it. 

So you see, there is corroborating evidence there, undoubtedly. 

Then I go on and say : 
You say they are supposed to be pretty close friends? 
And she said : 
Very close ; very close. 

You deny that, as I understand. 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 

Senator Ives. I can understand why you would. 

In what way did they demonstrate that outside of the picture? 

He told me in 1955, when I told him I knew he was not making a living nice, he 
told me, "No, I am making it with my fists, and I hope you know by now that you 
did not marry a lily white." 

Is that right ? Is that what you said 
Mr. Baker. Senator, that is another 1 
Senator Ives. In other words, everything she said, in your book, is 
a lie? 

Mr. Baker. You ought to know her better. 
Senator Ives. She goes on : 

Furthermore, I don't care what you think, because I intend to leave you and 
forget you and the little girl, because Averell Harriman will introduce me to some 
girl in his circle and then the law wouldn't touch me and I will become a big man. 

Mr. Baker. An absolute lie. 
Senator Ives. She goes on and says : 
That is the truth, so help me God. 

Mr. Baker. An absolute lie. 

Senator Ives. In other words, she is committing perjury all the way 
through here ; is that right ? 

Mr. Baker. You are not kidding, Senator. 
Senator Ives. Then we go on : 
Was he ever entertained by Mr. Harriman? 
She says : 

Yes, he was. In fact, Mr. Averell Harriman told him to bring me out to Sun 
Valley. That was the first time I found out who owned Sun Valley. 

Do you deny that, do you ? 



r 't 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14173 

Mr. Baker. Absolutely. 
Senator Ives (reading) : 

Was he ever entertained in Washington? 

Yes; at the Perle Mesta residence, where Mr. Harriman was renting at the 
time. 

What have you got to say about that ? 

Mr. Baker. The same thing, Senator. Entertained? They had a 
party there, a victory party, for around a thousand people there, all 
the rooters and everyone that worked out for him. They went out 
there for a weiner roast, grabbed a sandwich and went on home. 

Senator Ives. That is the only time you were ever there; is that 

VIr. Baker. I was out there, drove out down around the house to 
see Joe Rauh at one time, and another gentleman who worked with 
him very close, Mr. Bardacke. But I never was actually close to 
Mr. Harriman. 

Senator Mundt. Is this the Joe Rauh who is the attorney for 
Walter Keuther? 

Mr. Baker. I believe so. I think he is. 

Senator Ives. Yes. 

Did you ever have telephone calls with Mr. Harriman? 

Mr. Baker. To the house asking for Mr. Joe Kauh. 

Senator Ives. You never talked to Mr. Harriman on the telephone ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't believe he ever answered the phone. Someone 
else answered the phone, I believe. If it was Mr. Harriman on the 
phone and I ask for Mr. Eauh, they just put him on. I had no 
conversations with him. 

Senator Ives. Mrs. Mollie Baker says that you used to call him 
almost every Sunday morning. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Baker. That is an absolute untruth. 

Senator Ives. Then I go ahead and I ask on what basis the con- 
versations were held, and it finally developed they were held on a 
first-name basis. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Baker. What did you say, Senator, on that last one? 

Senator Ives. Did you call him Mr. Harriman when you were talk- 
ing with him ? 

Mr. Baker. On a first-name basis, did you say ? 

Senator Ives. Yes. Did you call him Mr. Harriman when you were 
talking with him, or did you call him Averell ? 

Mr. Baker. I never had an opportunity to get that close. 

Senator Ives. Did he call you Barney, or did he call you Mr. 
Baker? 

Mr. Baker. One time when I was in the Democratic Club after 
the victory, he had a press conference there, and a big crowd was in 
the back room. There was a table set up and in the press conference 
they mentioned the fact that — thanked those at the table for help- 
ing him, and then one gentleman leaned over and whispered some- 
thing to him and the next thing I know he says, "And there is a 
fellow, Barney, here. Come on out here. He also helped a great 
deal." 

But he said it in a manner of where they told him that there was 
another worker that worked on the streets for him. 



14174 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Ives. This is what Mollie Baker says about your phone 
conversations, when I was asking about the terms that were used in 
talking to one another. She said — 

Oh, they used to, and it got so in Washington in 1952, he told me — that is 
Baker told me — Mr. Harriman said, "Don't call me Harriman, call me Averell, 
and I will call you Barney." And he did just that. 

Was she lying in that ? Is that perjury ? 

Mr. Baker. Certainly. 

Senator Ives. She overheard the conversations, you know. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know where she heard that conversation. 

Senator Ives. You mean she could live in the same house and not 
hear you telephone ? 

Mr. Baker. She is making up a lot of stories here, Senator. There 
is a lot of viciousness behind her. 

Senator Iras. You deny that, do you ? 

Mr. Baker. I do deny it. 

Senator Ives. All right, categorically. 

Then we go on, and I wanted to know how long these conversations 
were carried on, and she said all during your married life. That, 
of course, wasn't too long, was it? That was 1955 when that broke 
up? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. I had no married life, Senator, so- 
called married life. 

Senator Ives. Well, you were married, weren't you, at that time? 

Mr. Baker. I was married to her. 

Senator Ives. Then she went on — 

From 1952 until he called me from Buffalo and told me he was up there 
campaigning. In fact, when Governor Harriman became Governor of New 
York, Mr. Baker was allowed to enter New York State again without being 
picked up by the police. 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I could go into New York any time and never 
be picked up by the police. That is a lie. And before Mr. Harri- 
man was ever Governor. Believe me. 

Senator Ives. I gathered you could, when you started going back 
there. 

Mr. Baker. I say, whenever I had occasion to go to New York. 

Senator Ives. Why is it, then, that yesterday^ in corroborating 
testimony of the witness that was on, she also gave the same kind 
of testimony, that you had told her that now that Mr. Harriman was 
Governor, you could get into New York without being interfered 
with by the police? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I never said that to either one. There is 
two women there, I don't know how they 

Senator Ives. All your women friends seem to testify along the 
same lines. 

Mr. Baker. Can't I answer these questions, Senator? 

Senator Ives. Yes, go ahead. 

Mr. Baker. I am trying to, Senator, and you wouldn't let me. 

The Chairman. Ask the question, and we will get the answer. 

Senator Ives. Go ahead. 

Mr. Baker. It seems to me that these two women have an object 
to come into this hearing and to lay down the things that they said 
here and get away with these things. I don't know how how you 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14175 

can — what penalties there are for people that tell this big untruth 
that they are telling. It is not true. They are making up these 
stories. There is a vioiousness and there must be something behind 
it more than just testifying against me, because they want to talk. 
I don't know. It seems to me as if someone is in jail now and wants 
to get out, and maybe they feel that this would rectify things in 
testifying where somebody would like to hear something that was 
not right, and any other woman being as vicious as she is, the wife, 
so to speak — — 

Senator Kennedy. Mr. ( Jhairman 

.Mr. Baker. This hurt me a great deal. 

Senator Kennedy. I think that last statement of Mr. Baker should 
be looked at carefully if there is any inference that Miss Brougher 
has come up here and told untruths in order to get consideration 
in her jail sentence. 

Are you suggesting that? 

Mr. Baker. I am saying, Senator, that his body here would know 
nothing about her thinking along them lines. 

Senator Kennedy. That is a different statement. Are you taking 
back your previous statement, that she came up here and told a 
deliberate falsehood in order to affect her prison sentence? Is that 
your testimony? 

Mr. Baker. Well, there was an untruth told, about moneys and 
things like that. I am saying that I believe that there must be some- 
thing in her mind, and I can't say that this is it, and put my finger 
on it, but I am only saying that there may be something in her thinking, 
that maybe she could say something to somebody down there. I 
don't know. There must be a reason. 

Senator Kennedy. You don't know ? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Senator Kennedy. The fact is she testified in regard to the money. 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 

Senator Kennedy. You, yourself, have given extremely evasive 
answers in regard to the money. If I had to believe one of them, I 
would believe her. 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I did answer on the money questions ; not on 
$20,000 or $25,000, the amount she says. 

Mr. Kennedy. Regarding your activities down there, your associa- 
tion with Meyer Lansky and Capolla, the fact that you supported her, 
these things are all corroborated. 

The Chairman. Senator Ives. 

Senator Ives. 1 would like to continue on a little bit longer in my 
questioning, if I may. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

I would like to ask Mr. Baker if following his conviction prior to 
1955 he was ever in New York. 

Or during the period of your investigation, we will put it that way. 

Mr. Baker. What was that ? What investigation ? What investi- 
gation, Senator? 

Senator Ives. In the Hintz murder. 

Mr. Baker. I wasn't being investigated for no Hintz murder, or 
anything of that sort. 

Senator Ives. Well, they were trying to find out who did it, and I 
think you were under suspicion. 



14176 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. No, Senator, that is not true. They did not try to find 
out who did it. They already had said they know who did it. They 
just came down there to give me an annoyance because I was talking 
to one of the people in Florida that they were looking for. 

Senator Ives. Were you in New York City at any time during that 
period ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recall even leaving — during the period of what, 
sir ? What period is that ? 

Senator Ives. Following that murder. 

Mr. Baker. Following it ? 

Senator Ives. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. Maybe around a year later. I don't know. I can't 
recall. 

Senator Ives. You don't know ? 

Mr. Baker. Maybe a year after or so. I have no business to go into 
New York. 

Senator Ives. I wouldn't think you would have. 

Then I want to ask this of you : Do you deny everything that was 
said by these 2 witnesses regarding you, these 2 ladies ? 

Mr. Baker. All the questions that you asked me and I answered, 
and if I answered in a denial 

Senator Ives. Just let me ask a question for a minute. 

Do you deny everything that was said about you by these two ladies 
that testified? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, you ask me the question and I will answer it. 
I am not going to answer on all questions that she said. I don't know 
of all the questions that she did answer. 

Senator Ives. You have denied everything so far, and I hav^e asked 
you the main questions. 

Mr. Baker. Well, anything that I have denied, that is it, Senator. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Senator Ives. Let me ask you this : Do you deny the fact that when 
Mrs. Mollie Baker called you in Buffalo you told her that you were 
campaigning there for Averell Harriman? 

Mr. Baker. I deny that, sir. 

Senator Ives. You do ? You deny that, too ? 

Mr. Baker. I certainly do. 

Senator Ives. Then apparently you deny up and down, categori- 
cally, everything that these two ladies said with regard to your rela- 
tionship with Mr. Harriman ; is that correct? 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Just a moment. Mr. Chairman, may I address the 
Chair ? I think that question is absolutely out of order. The witness 
couldn't make an answer to it and say, "I make a blanket denial to 
everything that was said by these two witnesses." 

The Chairman. I think the question should be direct and related 
to something specific. He could answer that and say "No, I don't 
necessarily deny everything. I don't know what everything is." But 
we can interrogate him directly and let him say "yes" or "no." He is 
under oath. If he is testifying falsely, there will be some opportunity 
to consider action on it. 

Proceed. 

Senator Ives. I wouldn't try to press you on that at all. I will 
tell you why. Because everything of any great consequence said 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14177 

about you by either of the ladies you have already denied, isn't thai 
right? 

Mr. Baker. Wait a minute. Just a minute, Senator. 

Senator Ives. I don't think that is out of order. 

Mr. Fitzgerald, what have you to say about that ? 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Senator Ives, that is a general question. You said, 
"Everything that they have said about you of any consequence*' he 
lias denied. 

Senator Ives. I will reframe it. 

Everything that I have brought to his attention that they said 
about him in their testimony he has denied he had anything to do 
with. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. That is a conclusion. 

Senator Ives. He did deny it, didn't he ? 

Mr. Fitzgerald. That is your conclusion. I don't know if he did or 
not. Of course, I am only here to help him from a legal standpoint. 
I certainly can't even suggest anything to the Senators as to how they 
should ask questions. 

Senator Ives. He said right and left it was an absolute lie. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. The only thing I object to is when you leave this 
up in the air and say, "Well, everything they said about you, you deny." 
I don't think he can fairly answer that question. 

Senator Ives. I think if you will look at the record when it is printed 
up, you will find that every question I raised regarding Mrs. Mollie 
Baker, and the other lady, Mrs. Brougher, everything that I asked 
him about them, in connection with his relationship with Mr. Harri- 
man, he has indicated to be absolute lies. That is the question I raised. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I am not saying that is true, but to have him re- 
affirm it I do not think that is proper. 

The Chairman. Let the Chair say we are making a record here. The 
record will speak for itself. 

Ask the questions. The Chair will order the witness to answer. It 
seems that will not be necessary, if he answers. But if he evades, and 
I think he is evading, I will order him to answer the question. 

Proceed. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman ? 

Senator Ives. I think that is all for the time being. 

Senator Kennedy. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Kennedy. 

Senator Kennedy. I wanted to interrogate on the Harriman matter 
before we leave that. 

Senator Curtis. Very well. 

Senator Kennedy. Mr. Baker, it seems to me that the problem is not 
that Miss Brougher did not tell the truth, it seems to me that your 
statement that you are a braggart and that you like to build yourself 
up and that you are a ham, that is what has caused a good deal of the 
difficulty in regards to your relationship between Governor Harriman 
and yourself. 

For example, Mrs. Baker stated that you said when you were in 
Buffalo, that you were up there campaigning for Governor Harriman 
in 1956. Governor Harriman was not running for governor in 1956. 
He was at a later date, in June of that year, a candidate for the Presi- 
dency. But the hotel bills indicate that you were in Buffalo in Janu- 



14178 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

ary, February, and to the middle of March of 1956. So how could you 
possibly have been campaigning for Governor Harriman at that time, 
when he was not a candidate ? 

If you were talking about the Presidency, he was not a candidate 
for that. You were talking about in his own State, in Buffalo, which 
you had just come into. 

Therefore, I doubt very much that he would have to rely on you 
for assistance in his own State. 

Is that a fact, Mr. Baker ? 

Mr. Baker. It is a fact, Senator. 

Senator Kennedy. So if you stated it to Mrs. Baker, your wife, that 
that is what you were doing, then that, of course, wasn't true ? 

Mr. Baker. It wasn't, if I did. 

Senator Kennedy. Did you ever ask Governor Harriman after 1952 
to intercede with the authorities in New York City to permit you to 
come back to New York ? 

Mr. Baker. Honestly, no. 

Senator Kennedy. You never talked to him? Do you know that 
Governor Harriman, of your knowledge, interceded on your behalf? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir, Senator. 

Senator Kennedy. The statement was made that you were invited 
to participate in the campaign of 1952. Were you invited by Mr. 
Gibbons? Is that who talked to you about taking part in the 
campaign? 

Mr. Baker. No. No, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. Who invited you ? 

Mr. Baker. It was a fellow that represented some labor unions. I 
believe it was Mr. Bardacke. Yes, I believe it was Mr. Bardacke, Mr. 
Gregory Bardacke. 

Senator Kennedy. In other words, you were not invited by Mr. 
Harriman? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Mundt. Who was it that invited you ? 

Mr. Baker. Mr. Gregory Bardacke. 

Senator Mundt. Can you spell it ? 

Mr. Baker. No, a white fellow. 

Senator Mundt. Spell it. 

Mr. Baker. B-a-r-d-a-c-k-e. 

Senator Kennedy. He invited you to participate in the campaign ? 

Mr. Baker. He asked me. 

Senator Kennedy. Wasn't that campaign of comparatively short 
duration? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir, the primary in Washington. 

Senator Kennedy. Two or three weeks ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. That is the time you met Governor Harriman, 
during that campaign ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, yes, I mean I met him with a lot of people shaking 
hands. 

Senator Kennedy. When did you see him after the 1952 primary? 
When did you see him next ? 

Mr. Baker. The next time I went with Mr. Bardacke, I believe, to 
the convention. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14179 

Senator Kennedy. In L902? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. I wanted to see how they worked on a big scale. 

Senator Kennedy. When was 1 he next time you saw him? 

.Mr. Baker. I think I saw him one time when 1 went home visiting 
my mother. We went to visit Gregory Bardacke, and 1 went with Mr. 
Gibbons to see Gregory Bardacke. I don't know if lie was ill at the 
time or not. 1 think we saw him then at many hotels where, they 
had candidates. 

Senator KENNEDY. Was this L952 \ 

Mr. Baker. No, it was later on, where von said later on after 11)52. 

Senator Kennedy. Are yon talking about the 1956 convention? 

Mr. Baker. 1956, I believe, to the best of my recollection. 

Senator Kennedy. In other words, you are stating between 1952 
convention and the 1956 convention, you did not see Governor Harri- 
man, or did you ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe we did. I believe we went into New York, 
and at that time they had an election there. It was over, the election 
was over. I mean, it was that evening or something. We went early 
that eveningto many campaign headquarters. 

Senator Kennedy. You went to New York on the election eve of 
1954? 

Mr. Baker. 1 believe so. 

Senator Kennedy. When Governor Harriman was running for 
Governor? 

Mr. Baker. I believe so. 

Senator Kennedy. The statement was made that you w T ere not per- 
mitted to go back to New York before 1955. Now you are stating you 
were in New York in 1954? 

Mr. Baker. Sure. I was there a couple of times before, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. You were not picked up by the police ? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Senator Kennedy. You state that you saw Governor Harriman that 
evening in election headquarters? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, with a lot of people in a big room. 

Senator Kennedy. When did you see him next ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't believe I saw him after that. 

Senator Kennedy. Did you see him at the 1956 convention ? 

Mr. Baker. In the 1956 convention, I went into the Hilton Hotel 
in the lobby, and they were all walking in, a mass, a lot of people 
walking from one hotel to another and 1 believe 1 saw him then. 

Senator Kennedy. You are stating that you saw him during the 
1952, primary, you saw him election night in New York, at his head- 
quarters, in a crowd, and that you saw him at his headquarters when 
there was a crowd in 1956. 

Am 1 stating it accurately? If I am nor accurate, I want you to 
state it. Did you see him in private in a conversation ? 

Mr. Baker. No; that is it. You are accurate. 

Senator Kennedy. I want you to state it. 

Mr. Baker. That is accurate. 

Senator Kennedy. You saw him at his headquarters in 1956, you 
saw him election eve in 1954, and you saw him during the primary in 
1952? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 



14180 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Kennedy. And beyond those times, you have not seen him? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir, Senator. 

Senator Kennedy. On the question of the picture to "My dearest 
friend." 

Mr. Baker. Very true. 

Senator Kennedy. You had a picture which had his name on it and 
"Sincerely" or some other greeting. 

Mr. Baker. "Sincerely." 

Senator Kennedy. You have never seen the picture to "My dearest 
friend" ? Do you have the picture now ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir; I haven't. 

Senator Kennedy. If there was such an inscription, you are stating 
under oath that Governor Harriman did not write it? 

Mr. Baker. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. And if there is such a picture, someone else must 
have written those words? 

Mr. Baker. That is true, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. You don't know whether there is or not ? You 
have never heard of this picture before this date, with this inscription ? 

Mr. Baker. On this "Very good friend" stuff ? 

Senator Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. Did you ever go to Sun Valley ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. Were you invited to Sun Valley ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. If the campaign in the primary in Washington 
lasted for 3 weeks, which is my information from looking at the papers, 
what was the occasion for you to have a conversation with Governor 
Harriman every Sunday? 

Mr. Baker. I never did, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. You never had a conversation ? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. Would there have been any purpose for it once 
the campaign was over? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Kennedy. So you are stating under oath that you did not 
have a conversation with Governor Harriman ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir, Senator, I am stating that under oath. 

Senator Kennedy. It is my understanding from looking at the list 
of phone calls put into the record yesterday, various phone calls you 
made from hotels in 1956, 1957, and this year, you have not had a phone 
conversation with Governor Harriman? 

Mr. Baker. Not with him. 

Senator Kennedy. When was this last time you spoke to him on the 
phone ? 

Mr. Baker. I never spoke to him. I spoke to his aids. 

Senator Kennedy. Wheal ? 

Mr. Baker. In 1952, in the primary, when I needed some leaflets 
and things. 

Senator Kennedy. Did you talk to him or his assistant since that 
time \ 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14181 

Senator Kennedy. It seems to me, Mr. Baker, that you have caused 
a good deal of the difficulty in this matter yourself, by your statements 
to your wife and to others about your alleged intimacy with Governor 
Harriman. 

Mr. Baker. I might have bragged about 

Senator Kennedy. You shouldn't brag about those things, unless 
there is some evidence for it. I would like for you to produce the 
evidence if it is so, and if it isn't so, I would like you to state it. Have 
you had any connection, have you seen, have you conversed with 
Governor Harriman except in the 1952 primary, and the night of the 
election in 1954, ancl at his convention headquarters in 1956 ? 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I have not. 

Senator Kennedy. My understanding is that Governor Harriman 
has stated that he does not know you, except that you were active in 
his 1952 primary campaign here, and he may have shaken hands with 
you but he does not recall it at the 1956 convention headquarters. 

Mr. Chairman, I am not criticizing at all Mrs. Baker or Mrs. 
Brougher for what they may have said, because I think it is quite 
obvious from the statements of Mr. Baker himself that it is quite 
likely that he made the statements himself to them, that he is the one 
that traded on Mr. Harriman's reputation, and that what they have 
said has been true to the best of their ability. 

But it has been you that has caused the difficulty, Mr. Baker, by the 
allegations you have made and the suggested intimacies which have 
not been in fact. 

Mr. Baker. I am sorry, Senator. It is the truth, I am sorry. 

Senator Kennedy. I think it is important when you come before us 
that your general reputation, which has not been a good one, that it is 
particularly important that we have these facts in perspective, and 
that there should not be any suggestion of an intimacy which does 
not in fact exist between you and a public servant or a politician. If 
there is such an intimacy, it should be proven. If there isn't it seems 
to me that those facts should be brought out, too. It seems to me 
unless someone is able to bring out facts to the contrary, your relation- 
ship with Mr. Harriman was extremely casual ; that you were of help 
to him in the 1952 campaign, but since that date there has been no 
connection and no favors done either way. 

Mr. Baker. Absolutely. 

Senator Kennedy. I think that that fact should be established 
so that no improper inferences can be drawn from this hearing be- 
cause of your own unfortunate reputation. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman \ 

Senator Ives. Mr. Chairman? 

The Chairman. Senator Ives. 

Senator Ives. Then I take it, Mr. Baker, that what you had been 
telling your former wife, Mollie Baker, and Mrs. Brougher, are little 
white lies. 

Mr. Baker. Well, in the light of 

Senator Ives. That is what you termed them yesterday. 

Mr. Baker. In the line of what Senator Kennedy just spoke about, 
sir? 

Are you referring to Senator Kennedy ? 



14182 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Ives. I am talking about what Senator Kennedy was talk- 
ing about. You told them, apparently, these stories that they related 
on the stand here. 

Mr. Baker. Senator, that is true. I belie ve 

Senator Ives. You admit it now, do you ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Senator Ives. When I was questioning you first, you denied that 
you ever told them anything. 

Mr'. Baker. Excuse me, Senator. You are trying to confuse me now. 

Senator Ives. I am not trying to confuse you at all. I am trying 
to find the truth. 

Mr. Baker. I know everybody is pitching and I am taking. But 
let me consult my lawyer. Is it all right, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Yes. Go ahead. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

The Chairman. All right. Let's have order. 

Mr. Baker. Senator, I never mentioned any specific things that 
you are asking me now. I might have dropped names here and there, 
and, like you say, a little white lie, or you say I said. 

I was probably bragging a little bit, But that is about all. I didn't 
think it was going to amount to so great importance at this hearing 
to destroy a good public servant, and instead of building and keeping- 
people like them people in line so you need them kind of people to do 
good things for the little people in this country, the same as you and the 
other good Senators, build them people, don't knock them people. 
They are good people. Me, destroy me, if you want to, do whatever 
you want. But as far as a man like that, Senator, he is a good public 
servant. He is a great man. He is good for my mother and father and 
little people. 

Senator Ives. I am not trying to destroy you or anyone else. 

Mr. Baker. Do whatever you want with me, Senator. Go ahead. 

Senator Ives. I am not trying to destroy you or anyone else. I am 
trying to find the truth. 

Mr. Baker. I am telling you the truth. 

Senator Ives. You told me one story and you told Senator Ken- 
nedy another on what you told these two ladies. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Mr. Chairman, may I address the Chair? 

I think Mr. Baker has answered the questions that were asked by 
Senator Ives on specific things. 

Senator Ives. He has. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. And he has denied making certain statements to 
his wife, Mrs. Mollie Baker, and to this other person. 

Senator Ives. May I interpose — wait just a minute, Mr. Fitzgerald, 
I want to say something to you on that. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. May I finish? 

Senator Ives. I want to point out exactly what was said. 

The Chairman. We will shorten it if each one finishes what they 
want to say. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I was just trying to straighten something out in 
his mind, that is, in your mind, from what he tells me. 

First, he categorically denies making those specific questions. No. 2, 
he stated, however, that undoubtedly he did some bragging to his wife 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14183 

generally, maybe told what he termed little white lies, about big 
public figures, and about his closeness to them. He said thai was 
Dragging and he answered 

The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, we have all heard that. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. 1 know. Hut I think it is unfair, Mr. Chairman, 
to try to blanket this witness with another general denial when he 
has already made one on specific questions. 

(At this point the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan, Ives, Kennedy. Mundt, and Curtis.) 

Senator Ives. 1 am not trying to blanket him with anything like 
that, I am trying to point out the discrepancy in his test imony. That 
has already been established, and I think that you will find it when 
you read it. Now, I want to read a statement that comes out of the 
Des Moines Register of June 7, 1958. That wasn't too long ago. 
Speaking of Mr. Baker, it says : 

He also told how he worked in the Harriman headquarters in Chicago, during 
the 1956 national convention. Maker said while in Des Moines that he once 
was a house guest of Harriman and the Governor denied that. 

Did you make such a statement there to anybody? That is this 
year, just the last few months. 

Mr. Baker. I remember the conversation, Senator Ives, and I am 
big enough to admit I dropped a lie there too. The man was talking 
to me about politics and so forth and so on, and can I answer this, 
Mr. Chairman? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. I see you have the gavel. I was in there and they inter- 
viewed me at the hospital, and we got talking about racketeers and 
things of that sort, and I said, "I know good people, too." He said, 
"Who do you know?" and I said I was a house guest, and I can't get 
Harriman out of my mind because I was one of the many many people 
that worked for him on the street. 

I might have mentioned that, and I don't recall actually saying 
these words, but I might have mentioned the fact that Mr. Harriman 
and I are all right, and we are friends. 

The Chairman. You don't recall it but it sounds right ? 

Mr. Baker. It is bragging but it is not the truth. 

The Chairman. You don't recall it — wait a minute until I ask 
the question. 

Mr. Baker. I am sorry, Senator. 

The Chairman. You don't recall it, but it just sounds like you, 
though. 

Mr. Baker. Maybe. 

Senator Curtis. Now, Mr. Baker, I want to get some of these busi- 
ness interests and addresses in the Omaha area straight. Yesterday 
you testified that you were an executive in a social club and you identi- 
fied that as the Capri Club out at Carter Lake. 

Mr. Baker. I thought that was it because I never saw the club and 
they asked if they could put my name on it and I said "O. K." 

Senator Curtis. I said were you ever out at the Capri Club at 
Carter Lake, Mr. Baker, and you said "Yes." 

Mr. Baker. I ate there. 



14184 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. Now, in reference to this Epicure Restaurant, Inc., 
the question is or the blank here says : 

Place of business, 2510 Hickory, Omaha, Nebr. Post office address, 2510 
Hickory, Omaha, Nebr. 

That is not in Carter Lake, is it ? 

Mr. Baker. No. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Mr. Chairman, I haven't asked yet to see the 
document, but if he is going to be questioned specifically, I believe 
we are entitled to see what this is all about. 

Senator Curtis. You may see the document. All I am going to 
refer to are the addresses. 

Mr. Baker. That is right ; it isn't Carter Lake ? 

Senator Curtis. Who lives at 2510 Hickory in Omaha ? 

Mr. Baker. I do not know, offhand. 

Senator Curtis. Now, it was the principal place of business, so 
listed, for the corporation that you assisted in as one of the incorpora- 
tors, and also for which you were the resident agent. Now, as a 
matter of fact, that is the residence of Mrs. Stella Sittler, isn't it? 

Mr. Baker. I do not know. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know the lady ? 

Mr. Baker. Not unless I saw her, and I couldn't remember the 
name. 

Senator Curtis. 2510 Hickory is 15 blocks south of Dodge Street, 
the dividing line between North Omaha and South Omaha; isn't 
that correct ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe that you are correct, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. You have been out there ? 

Mr. Baker. To this place, you mean, the Epicure? They were 
building a place there when I was there. 

Senator Curtis. And you have been to Mrs. Sitler's place ? 

Mr. Baker. The restaurant you are talking about, and not the house, 
and I never was up at the house. 

Senator Curtis. Now, the listing for 2510 Hickory Street is the resi- 
dence of Mrs. Sitler ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever been out there ? 

Mr. Baker. To the residence, the home, you mean ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. I never was up in her home. 

Senator Curtis. Who is J. W. Shum ? 

Mr. Baker. It may be another person like myself that was ap- 
proached by this nice fellow, that said, "How about putting your 
name down?" They were soliciting membership. 

Senator Curtis. His address is listed ? 

Mr. Baker. It is a membership solicitation. 

Senator Curtis. His address is 5215 South 83d Street, Omaha? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recollect that name, and I don't remember that 
name at all. 

Senator Curtis. Now, do you know a lawyer by the name of David 
S. Lathrop? 

Mr. Baker. I don't recognize the name, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. Now, for the classification of the corporation^ it 
is pecuniary, and that is not only a different location, but it is a dif- 
ferent name than the Capri Club. I would suggest that Mr. Fitz- 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14185 

gerakl and you might look at that, and I may have some more questions 
for you afterward after you have had a chance to look at it. 

Senator Ives. Are there any other quesi ions '. 

Senator Mundt. Mr. Baker, I want to ask you a few questions 
about your political activities because between the questions that you 
answered to Mr. Kennedy, and the questions that you answered ad- 
dressed to you by Senator Ives, you have completely confused me. 

I want you to tell me now in your own way just what you did do 
politically, and not what your w 7 ives or your girl friends may have 
said you did, or any other testimony. I want you to testify under 
oath as to what you did do, because certain of those things can be 
demonstrated surely by witnesses in this town, because in 1952, at 
least, your activities, politically, were limited to Washington; is that 
right '. 

Mr. Baker. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I would like to object to this question, with due 
respect to Senator Mundt, on the ground this matter has been asked 
and answered several times. 

Senator Mundt. But never quite this way. 

Senator Ives. I don't agree with you. This particular question 
hasn't been raised yet. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I think the subject matter has been completely 
covered, and I don't know of anything that the witness could do more 
than stand on his previous answers to these questions. 

Senator Ives. I don't know what the Senator is going to ask, and 
so I don't see how anybody can decide that the subject matter has 
been covered. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Senator Mundt is asking the witness now to re- 
late in his own words everything he did. 

Senator Mundt. I did not ask that question, and I am going to ask 
him some questions to answer. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I will object to specific questions. 

Senator Mundt. It is pretty hard to object to a question I haven't 
asked yet. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. I agree with that, but I thought you were asking 
for a generalization, that is all. 

Senator Mundt. I asked him whether his political activities in 1952 
were limited to the District of Columbia, and I think that he said, 
"Yes." 

Mr. Baker. Yes. In 1952, District of Columbia, political, for Har- 
riman, for primary. Are you referring to that? 

Senator Mundt. Yes. 

Mr. Baker. The Harriman primary, that is right. 

Senator Mundt. You said, if I understood the testimony correctly, 
once you gave two different names as to the people who got you in- 
terested in politics. Who just did get you interested in politics? 

Mr. Baker. I myself was interested in voting when I can, and 
there is no voting in Washington, D. C. 

Senator Mundt. Who got you interested in the Harriman cam- 
paign? 

Mr. Baker. Greg Bardacke and Joe Rauh. 

Senator Mundt. Well, now, you are using both. 

Mr. Baker. Well, that is true. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 4 



14186 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Mundt. The first day you testified, you said that Joe 
Rauh got you a position first of all with the Democratic committee, 
did you not? 

Mr. Baker. I said to the best of my recollection, I was recom- 
mended by Mr. Rauh. 

Senator Mundt. Now, Mr. Rauh also got you interested in the 
Harriman campaign? 

Mr. Baker. With Mr. Bardacke, and I got in conversation, and 
they said they wanted some labor fellows to get out here and do a 
job for Mr. Harriman. 

Senator Mundt. And you became cochairman of the Harriman 
for President Committee? 

Mr. Baker. Under their setup, that is right. 

Senator Mundt. It was the labor committee. 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. What did you do as cochairman ? 

Mr. Baker. I tried to bring about meetings of labor groups and 
going to the various local unions and meetings. 

Senator Mundt. Did you address the meetings ? 

Mr. Baker. I certainly did, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. What else did you do ? 

Mr. Baker. I went along the lines of talking to many church 
reverends and seeing that they would give opportunity to Joe Rauh 
or Bardacke to have Mr. Harriman speak at various churches in the 
area, and I went down and knocked on doors and tried to tell people 
and hand them leaflets. 

Senator Mundt. Did you accompany Mr. Harriman at any of the 
meetings that he addressed ? 

Mr. Baker. I would attend every meeting or I would try to at- 
tend almost every meeting where they would have speeches. 

Senator Mundt. That does not answer the question. I said, did 
you attend any of the meetings, whether on street corners or in rooms 
or halls, that Mr. Harriman addressed ? 

Mr. Baker. I did attend meetings ; yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. During that 3- week period ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 

Senator Mundt. About how many ? 

Mr. Baker. I can't recall how many, Senator. There were many 
meetings and many conversations. 

Senator Mundt. Would you say you attended six or more of these 
meetings ? 

Mr. Baker. You can't tell me that I could remember exactly. 

Senator Mundt. Would you say it would be more than six ? 

Mr. Baker. I held more than six myself alone. 

Senator Mundt. I asked you whether you accompanied Mr. Har- 
riman to more than six. 

Mr. Baker. I don't remember how many meetings. I did not ac- 
company him, and I went there on my own. 

Senator Mundt. I did not mean that you drove him there in your 
car. 

Mr. Baker. That is right, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. Well, No. 1, that is a little hard for me to recon- 
cile with the previous testimony that you gave, that you saw him 
only once while he was in Washington. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14187 

Mr. Baker. I did hoi say nothing along those lines, Senator. 
Senator Mundt. You said you saw him once in 1952. 
Mr. Baker. Now, in the campaign I saw him regularly when he was 
working on his campaign. You had to see him more than once, and 
the man gets out and works. Senator. 

Senator .Mundt. In 1052, you meant that you saw him during this 
series of campaign meetings which were held here. 
Mr. Baker. That is right, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. I accept that. What else did you do besides ar- 
range meetings and contact the church groups with whom you had 
undoubtedly a great amount of influence? 

Mr. Baker. I love them, and they love me. 

Senator Mundt. What else did you do in the campaign ? 

Mr. Baker. Well, I made sure I was knocking on doors, Senator, 
and I made sure I brought the message, and they all turned out, and 
we had a wonderful vote that particular year, the biggest vote Wash- 
ington, D. C, ever had. 

Senator Mundt. I remember the campaign. 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. I was here, and I was completely neutral in it, 
and I was just watching. That takes care of 1952. 

Now, vou say you were back in the campaign again 4 years later 
in 1956?' 

Mr. Baker. What campaign, in Washington ? 

Senator Mundt. I don't know. I am trying to find out. You said 
you were working for the Harriman campaign in 1956. 

Mr. Baker. I visited the convention in 1956, sir. I was a visitor 
like many people from all over the country, coming to Chicago. 

Senator Mundt. You did not testify earlier that you had worked 
in the Harriman campaign in 1952 and in 1956 ? 

Mr. Baker. In 1952 1 aided in the primary, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. What did you do in 1956 ? 

Mr. Baker. Then I went there with Kauh and Bardacke to Chicago 
to see how they worked on a national scale. 

Senator Mundt. We are through 1952 now. 

Mr. Baker. Now you are on 1956, Senator. I went there where they 
had this trapeze artist that was playing some band instruments or 
something, that was campaigning and carrying on through their can- 
didates at the convention. 

Senator Mundt. You have told me in some detail what you did in 
1952, and we are through with 1952, and I want you to give me equal 
detail of what you did in the Harriman campaign of 1956, if anything. 

Mr. Baker. I minded my business, and I did not do too much, and 
I don't know exactly, and I am trying to figure it out. 

Senator Mundt. Were you working in Washington again in 1956 ? 

Mr. Baker. Sir? 

Senator Mundt. Was it in Washington in 1956 ? 

Mr. Baker. No, they had a convention in Chicago. I don't under- 
stand. 

(Witness consulted his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. I never worked for Mr. Harriman in 1956. 

Senator Mundt. Now you are saying you did not work for Harri- 
man in 1956. 



14188 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. That is right. I went to the convention, and I was a 
visitor at the hotels and seeing the demonstrations and things. 

Senator Mundt. Except for whatever work you did for him at the 
convention in 1956, you did nothing ? 

Mr. Baker. I never worked for Mr. Harriman in 1956. 

Senator Mundt. You did no other work ? 

Mr. Baker. I did not work for Mr. Harriman in 1956, Senator. 

Senator Ives. May I straighten that out? I think that newspaper 
article I just read indicated that you were in his headquarters, did it 
not, in 1956? 

Mr. Baker. Visiting, sir. 

Senator Ives. No ; working. That is my understanding of it. 

Senator Mundt. That was my understanding of the testimony the 
first day, and that is why I tried to straighten it out. 

Senator Ives (reading) : 

He also said how he worked in the Harriman headquarters in Chicago during 
the 1956 Democratic Convention. 

Mr. Baker. I told that to whom ? 

Senator Ives. Apparently in some interview you had out in Des 
Moines, Iowa, and it appears in the morning paper, the Des Moines 
Register on June 7 of this year. 

Mr. Baker. I guess that is me bragging again. It never happened, 
Senator. 

Senator Ives. All I have to say is that you are an inveterate liar; 
isn't that true ? 

Mr. Baker. I am not a liar under oath. 

Senator Ives. When you are not under oath, then you are an in- 
veterate liar ; is that correct % 

Mr. Baker. I would not say "inveterate liar"; only white lies, 
Senator. 

Senator Ives. Let me remark in that connection that once a person 
starts lying, it is very difficult for him to tell the truth. 

Senator Mundt. Coming to another subject, now, you were at the 
Mercy Hospital in Des Moines ; were you not ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir. 

Senator Mundt. And your bill there was $925. 

Mr. Baker. That is right, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. Who paid that bill ? 

Mr. Baker. The Labor Health Institute and myself. 

Senator Mundt. Labor and who else ? 

Mr. Baker. And myself. It is the Labor Health Institute, and 
they pay a certain amount. I have insurance and I paid the rest. 

Senator Mundt. You left the hotel, you left with Mr. Lu Farrell 
who came to see you when you were dismissed, and you left together. 

Mr. Baker. That is right. 

Senator Mundt. At that time, Mr. Farrell said that if Mr. Baker 
does not make good on this bill, he would assure the hospital the bill 
would be paid. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know of him saying that, Senator. 

Senator Mundt. I am saying it. I understand that is true. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know of Mr. Farrell saying that. 

Senator Mundt. All right, you do not deny that he told the hos- 
pital that ? 

Mr. Baker. I never heard of it. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 141 <S9 

Senator Mundt. You did not pay the hospital when you left? 

Mr. Baker. No, sir. 

Senator Mundt. You paid it later ? 

Mr. Baker. It had to come later, and I had to find out how much 
the Labor Health would pay, and I paid the balance. 

Senator Mundt. Someone had to make good the hospital bill, and 
Mr. Farrell assured them that if you did not pay it, he would make 
good. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if he said that. I did not hear him say it. 

Senator Mundt. Do you deny that he said it ? 

Mr. Baker. I never heard him say it. 

Seantor Mundt. Do you deny that he said it ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know if he said it. 

Senator Mundt. I did not ask you whether you heard it, and I 
asked if you denied it or are you in a position to deny it? 

Mr. Baker. I am not in a position to tell that. 

Senator Mundt. Did you make some arrangements 1 

Mr. Baker. He might have walked back for a moment, and I don't 
know, he might have said anything, and I can't tell you that. Why 
should I admit to that ? 

Senator Mundt. You made a number of phone calls while you were 
in the hospital, did you not ? 

Mr. Baker. I probably did. 

Senator Mundt. I think when I was questioning you further about 
Kid Conn, I might have confused you as to his legal name. I under- 
stand that it was Harry Blumenfeld. Do you know a Harry Blumen- 
felcl? I think that may help you straighten out this Kid Conn testi- 
mony. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know the name of Harry Blumenfeld. 

Senator Mundt. You are sure you do not know that ? 

Mr. Baker. The only thing close to that would be "Bloom," but I 
don't know any Blumenfeld. 

Senator Mudnt. I thought it was Bloom, but it is apparently 
Blumenfeld. 

Mr. Baker. I don't know the name Blumenfeld. 

Senator Mundt. One of the phone calls that you made from the 
Mercy Hospital was to Federal 2-8911, Minneapolis, the Loring Liquor 
Store, at 1370 Nicholas Avenue. Why were you calling the Loring 
Liquor Store, at 1370 Nicholas Avenue, Minneapolis, from the Mercy 
Hospital ? 

(Witness consulted his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. It could be maybe I was making a call for somebody and 
it might be somebody in the room that wanted to make a call, and I 
made it and put them on, I don't know. I won't recollect, but I could 
have made the call. 

Senator Mundt. It is rather strange that you would be calling a 
liquor store owned by Kid Conn, alias Harry Blumenfeld, in Minne- 
apolis, when you said you did not know him. 

Mr. Baker. I did not know anybody but Bloom, and I don't know 
Blumenfeld, unless I saw him in the face, or Kid Conn, as you call 
him, but Idon't know the name. 

Senator Mundt. I was very curious why you would call him from 
your hospital bed. 



14190 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. Maybe somebody was in my room and — I had a lot of 
visitors — and they might have been in the room and wanted to call 
somebody, and I put a call in or maybe they put the call in. 

The Chairman. I am sorry to interrupt, but I have to leave and 
go to the floor for some legislative matters, and I think possibly all 
of the Senators need to be on the floor at this time. I am going to 
recess until 3 o'clock this afternoon, and try to get the matter dis- 
posed of on the floor. We will come back at 3 o'clock and try to finish 
this hearing. 

(Thereupon at 12:50 p. m., a recess was taken until 3 p. m., the 
same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Ives.) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 
Mr. Baker? 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT BERNARD BAKER— Resumed 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, just this morning we got into some 
matters at the end not directly related to what we were doing. But 
I don't want Mr. Baker to leave the stand with the idea that he is 
just some kind of a Teamster jokester, because the record that has been 
established over the last few days establishes him as something far 
different from that. 

You have consorted with hoodlums. You have a criminal record 
for throwing bombs in New Y'ork during the 1930's. Sent to jail, 
you came out and broke probation, throwing bombs again — you can 
make a statement after I finish — you were involved in beating people 
up. 

You beat George O'Donohue up in local 838, during the 1930's. 
Mr. Keating described you as a close associate, which you did not 
deny, of two individuals who have gone to the electric chair for a very 
brutal murder. You were also involved and associated with Eddie 
MeGrath, Cockeyed Dunne, responsible for over a dozen murders, 
Andy Sheridan, and Don Gentile. Y^ou went to Florida witli Meyer 
Lansky and Trigger Mike Coppola, of which there are no worse lice 
in the underworld in the United States. 

You went out to St. Louis, and you were involved with Joe Costello, 
not only identified in a conversation that your wife had with you as 
the man responsible for handling the Greenlease murder, but identified 
by a captain of the St, Louis police as the man who handled the Green- 
lease money. A worse crime there has not been in the United States. 
You were associated with him in 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, and 1957. 
Even after that has been established, you were associated with John 
Vitale, who has been identified as the head of the underworld in St. 
Louis, who was identified by a member of the Bureau of Narcotics 
as in charge of the narcotics distribution in that area, You were even 
in business with him. You were identified with "Piggy Mack'" Mar- 
chesi ; with Jack Joseph up in the northern part of the United States ; 
with Lew Farrell, an old associate of the Al Capone mob; with Meli 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14191 

in Detroit; with Max Stern. Beyond all of that, beyond the fact that 

you are associated, closely associated with the scum of the United 
States, you have not been able to explain before this committee what 
are obvious misuses of union funds, hundreds and hundreds of thou- 
sands of dollars coming into your possession, for which you can give 
us no explanation whatsoever. 

Everywhere you go there has been violence, in Wichita, St. Louis, 
New York. Every time you have gone into a city you have been iden- 
tified with violence. You have dealt in huge amounts of cash your- 
self. The two people that lived with you, your wife and this girl down 
in Miami, said that you got it as payoffs from employers, that you 
told them you were getting this money as payoffs from employers. 
(At this point, Senator Church entered the hearing room.) 
Mr. Kennedy. When the critical points and critical questions are 
being asked of you today, your memory fails you. Whether you got 
money from an employer, Lew Farrell, you said you could not remem- 
ber; and the second thing, whether you tried to choke a man to death 
in Chicago last year, you say you can't remember. I just say that these 
people are the scum of the United States, the people you are associated 
with, and you are a part of them, Mr. Baker. 

You may make any comment on that which you desire. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. All questions that was asked me at this hearing I an- 
swered to the best of my knowledge, and I answered correctly. I have 
not anything else but what the record stands on the questions you or 
the Senators have asked me, sir, and what I have answered. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is a summary of the record confirmed by you. 
This is not the information that I have taken just from 1 or 2 wit- 
nesses. But this is a summary of the testimony that is confirmed by 
you, and it speaks for itself, as to what it makes you as a Teamster 
official. 

The Chairman. Are there any other questions? 
The Chair wants to state to you that it is his opinion, the Chair's 
opinion, that willful perjury has been committed. There can be no 
doubt about perjury as between your testimony and the testimony of 
other witnesses who have appeared. In my judgment, you have com- 
mitted perjury over and over. For that reason, I want to ask you this 
question now before you leave the stand, and I want to give you the 
chance : Do you wish in any respect to change the testimony you have 
given this committee under oath ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Baker. Senator, everything that I have said will remain said, 
and I have told the truth. 

The Chairman. You do not retract any of your statements \ 
Mr. Baker. I don't, Senator. 
The Chairman. Or change any of your answers ? 
Mr. Baker. I don't. Senator. 

The Chairman. The record will stand. The Chair places you under 
recognizance to reappear at such time as the committee may desire to 
further interrogate you. You will receive reasonable notice of the 
time and place where the committee wishes to hear you. Do you ac- 
cept that recognizance? 



14192 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Baker. Yes, sir ; I do. 

The Chairman. All right. Now, then, will you give for the record 
here at this time the place where you may be reached, where notice 
may be given to you ? 

Mr. Baker. I believe my attorney can be reached, and he will de- 
liver me as soon you reach him. 

The Chairman. All right, then, we will notify your attorney. You 
keep in touch with your attorney so you can respond whenever you 
are called for. 

Mr. Baker. Thank you, sir. 

The Chairman. Stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Tom Burke. 

The Chairman. Will you be sworn, please, sir? 

You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate 
select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Burke. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF TOM BURKE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, GEORGE 
FITZGERALD 

The Chairman. Please state your name, your place of residence, 
and your business or occupation. 

Mr. Burke. Tom Burke, Bellcrest Hotel, Detroit. 

The Chairman. What is your occupation, Mr. Burke? 

Mr. Burke. Organizer. 

The Chairman. Organizer? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

The Chairman. For whom? 

Mr. Burke. The Teamsters Union. 

The Chairman. Let the record show Mr. Fitzgerald appears as 
counsel for him. 

Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where were you born, Mr. Burke ? 

Mr. Burke. Ireland. 

Mr. Kennedy. What year? 

Mr. Burke. 1899. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Burke. When I was 3 years old. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you live then? 

Mr. Burke. Bellcrest Hotel, Detroit. 

Mr. Kennedy. You moved immediately to Detroit? 

Mr. Burke. Sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. You moved immediately to Detroit? 

Mr. Burke. My eyes hurt me. I can't even see you. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Could they take 

Mr. Burke. I got weak eyes and that thing is bothering my eyes. 

The Chairman. All right. If you make that request, and if you 
cooperate with the committee, turn the lights off. You boys get your 
flashes while you want them. 

Mr. Burke. That is better. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14193 

Mr. Kennedy. When you first came to this country, you lived in 
Detroit? 

Mr. Burke. Chicago. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you move to Chicago? 

When you were 3 years old ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long did you live in Chicago ? 

Mr. Burke. Until 1937. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing there, in Chicago ? 

Mr. Burke. In what years? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, during the 1930's, what were you doing in 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Burke. Driving a truck. 

Mr. Kennedy. For whom? 

Mr. Burke. Burchison Bros. 

Mr. Kennedy. During that whole period of time, is that correct ? 

Mr. Burke. Not all of the time, no. I had different jobs, garage- 
man, truckdriver, assistant business agent. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you arrested during that period of time? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. For what? 

Mr. Burke. Just picked up and released. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many times were you arrested ? 

Mr. Burke. I haven't the faintest idea. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Frank Nitti of New York? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Al Capone? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you arrested for ? 

Mr. Burke. Just in labor disputes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you in a union at that time? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir ; I was a member of the union, driving a truck. 

Mr. Kennedy. What union? 

Mr. Burke. Teamsters. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you an officer? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Local what of the teamsters ? 

Mr. Burke. 710. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was the head of that? 

Mr. Burke. Gee, it is back so far, I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't remember who it was? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were only arrested in connection with labor 
disputes ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were never arrested for anything else? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you move to Detroit? 

Mr. Burke. 1937. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do there? 

Mr. Burke. What kind of work did I do in Detroit in 1937? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Burke. I started to work as an organizer. 



14194 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. For the teamsters? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What local? 

Mr. Burke. The Joint Council. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who hired you as an organizer? 

Mr. Burke. A fellow named Sam Hirst. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is his name? 

Mr. Burke. Samuel Hirst. 

Mr. Kennedy. Hirst? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where had you known him? 

Mr. Burke. I knew him in Chicago. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you were in Chicago, did you know Joey 
Glimco? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never met him? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tony Accardo? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What sort of work were you doing for the Joint 
Council ? 

Mr. Burke. Organizer. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of groups were you working for? 

Mr. Burke. What did you say? 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of groups were you working for ? 

Mr. Burke. I was just out organizing. 

Mr. Kennedy. Truck drivers? 

Mr. Burke. Truck drivers on the street. 

Mr. Kennedy. And have you held any other positions, other than 
as an organizer for the Joint Council? 

Mr. Burke. No; I have been an organizer ever since. 

Mr. Kennedy. Since 1937? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you worked continuously for the Teamsters' 
Union since 1937. 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. Wait a minute. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Burke. I was off the payroll for a year and a half in Florida, 
sick. 

Mr. Kennedy. For what period of time was that? 

Mr. Burke. Wait until I get the dates. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Burke. Do you have the dates there, Mr. Senator ? 

Mr. Kennedy. 1954. 

Mr. Burke. I got it when I come back. July 24, 1956, I got back. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is when you started to go back to work? 

Mr. Burke. Come back to work then. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you got off in about January of 1954 or 1955? 
Is that correct? 

Mr. Burke. Yes; that is about it. 

Mr. Kennedy. You received a retirement payment when you 
retired ? 

Mr. Burke. I did not hear you. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14195 

Mr. Kennedy. You received a retirement payment when you re- 
tired in the end of 1954 ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was $11,815? 

Mr. Burke. Something like that. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do then in 1955? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do in 1955? 

Mr. Burke. I was in Florida in 1955. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where were you staying there? 

Mr. Burke. Bal Harbor Hotel. 

Mr. Kennedy. Doing what? 

Mr. Burke. I was siek. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just retired clown there, then? 

Mr. Burke. That is it. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were just resting during 1955. Prior to that, 
had you gone out to bring Jimmy Hoffa's brother's wife back to him 
in 1950? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

(At this point, Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Kennedy. You went out to get her? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you find her? 

Mr. Burke. Reno, Nev. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you brought her back? 

Mr. Burke. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who sent you out there? 

Mr. Burke. She called me to come down and get her. Nobody 
sent me. 

Mr. Kennedy. She could not get back by herself? 

Mr. Burke. She could, but she had a nervous breakdown, and she 
was having a little trouble with her old man. So I was the peace- 
maker. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did she run away again after you brought her back ? 

Mr. Burke. I couldn't tell you that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who paid for your trip out there? 

Mr. Burke. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Out of your own funds? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have a bank account ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you deal in cash, too? 

Mr. Burke. I got a box. A gooseberry box. 

Mr. Kennedy. At home? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. At home? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where do you keep the gooseberry box ? 

Mr. Burke. I ain't going to tell you. I got a partner that I have 
to worry about, but he is allergic to gooseberries. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't have a bank account? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You deal in cash? 



14196 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. Do these fellows have to sit here, Senator 
in front of me, all the time ? They get me confused. 

The Chairman. All right. 

The photographers will refrain from snapping pictures while the 
witness gives his testimony. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why is it that none of the top officials of the Team- 
sters Union have bank accounts? Why do they all deal in cash? 

Mr. Burke. That I could not tell you, but I never had nothing to 
put in there much, you know. That is why I keep it in a box. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't feel that banks are safe? 

Mr. Burke. I suppose they are. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just think the box is safer, is that it? 

The $11,000 that you got for retirement, what did you do with 
that ? Did you put that in the box ? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do with that? 

Mr. Burke. I spent it. 

Mr. Kennedy. You got the money and what did you do with it? 

Did you spend it all at one time? 

Mr. Burke. No, in a year and a half. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you keep the money during that period 
of time? 

Mr. Burke. In my pocket. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just carried it around, $11,000? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 

(At this point, Senator Kennedy entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Kennedy. When you were down in Florida, did you have 
any other source of income? 

Mr. Burke. No; I just got paid for my expenses. 

Mr. Kennedy. Expenses? 

Mr. Burke. When I would be well enough, I would go out and 
make surveys for the State for the Teamsters, and they paid my 
expenses. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you with Max Caldwell down there? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Max Caldwell? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you know Max Caldwell ? 

Mr. Burke. He was a unionist and owned a nightclub down there. 

Mr. Kennedy. What union was it ? 

Mr. Burke. Laborers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you together with him when he planned to 
send these individuals down to put them on the payroll of Cariola's 
union ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. I never spent much time. I would meet him 
in the nightclub if I went in to get a drink. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Mr. DuBois ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you planning to become a member of the Hotel 
and Restaurant Workers Union yourself down there? 

Mr. Burke. No. I helped in the organizational drive as much as 
I could, but I never received no salary for it. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14197 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you help ? 

Mr. Burke. Local 155 on the beach. 

Mr. Kennedy. Of the Hotel and Restaurant Workers ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was that ? 

Mr. Burke. And picket duty and such. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was that you helped ? 

Mr. Burke. I don't know who all was on the staff. 

Mr. Kennedy. We had testimony that Max Caldwell was trying to 
take that union over. 

Mr. Burke. He had nothing to do with it. That was maybe before 
my time. 

Mr. Kennedy. You didn't have anything to do with Cariola being 
beaten up ? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have guns in your room down in Miami ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many guns did you have ? 

Mr. Burke. I took five with me. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing with guns ? 

Mr. Burke. Just target practice. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were you shooting at ? 

Mr. Burke. What? 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were you shooting at ? 

Mr. Burke. I was down in the Everglades shooting at different 
items down there, target practice, and they have a target range down 
there. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is that ? All five guns? 

Mr. Burke. I have more than five. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had more than five with you ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many guns did you have down there ? 

Mr. Burke. I had 5 down there, but I have more than 5. It is a 
hobby with me. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of guns were they ? 

Mr. Burke. Pistols and rifles. 

Mr. Kennedy. Last year, in 1957, did you shoot your guns off in 
the lobby of the Town House Hotel in Detroit ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were not arrested for that ? 

Mr. Burke. Wait a minute. 

(Witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Burke. We came off the target one night, there were 5 of us 
shooting, and we were shooting at target practice, and we had these 
in a grip, we carry them with all of our targets, and we had 1 of the 
guns out showing the clerk. 

Mr. Kennedy. In the Town House ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, and I guess we didn't shoot them all out at the 
target, and one went off and went through the wall. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were arrested at that time ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened in connection with that ? 

Mr Burke. They took the guns and found out they were all reg- 
istered and it was permitted from target to target. 



14198 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you permitted, to fire guns in the Town House 
Hotel? 

Mr. Burke. No, but they didn't find the guns in the lobby. They 
found them in my dresser drawer, and they were all registered guns. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you with another Teamster official ? 

Mr. Burke. No ; I was with some people from Florida. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were with you ? 

Mr Burke. A fellow named Ryan, Jimmy Lee. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all? 

Mr. Burke. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Sam Calhoon ? 

Mr. Burke. No ; he wasn't with me. 

Mr. Kennedy. He wasn't there ? 

Mr Burke. He lived there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you shoot it off in his room or where ? 

Mr. Burke. It happened to go off in the lobby. It was a new 
gun, and we happened to click the trigger and there was one in there, 
and we thought they were all out 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know there was a complaint against you 
in connection with it, and the man who made that complaint was 
warned to withdraw the complaint ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know why there is no record of the arrest 
at the Detroit Police Department ? 

Mr Burke. There is a record. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, we have requested it. 

Mr. Burke. I was there all day long and they took the numbers 
of the guns and they had me before the prosecutor. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is what I understand, and do you know why 
at this time, in 1958, there is no record of your being arrested in the 
hotel? 

Mr. Burke. No, the police came in the next day, took me to the 
prosecutor, and the prosecutor asked, was he permitted and does he 
have a license to carry the gun and where did you find them, and 
they found them in my dresser drawer. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know why the record of your arrest and 
the facts involving this matter were withdrawn from the Detroit 
Police Department ? 

Mr. Burke. No, I think they are still there. 

Mr. Kennedy. They are not still there. Do you know who took 
them, and do you know why the man who was going to press the 
complaint against you didn't press the complaint, and do you know 
he was warned by a man by the name of Carl Lamento? Do you 
know Carl Lamento ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Kennedy. They found three guns ; is that right ? 

Mr. Burke. Five. 

Mr. Kennedy. A 32-caliber Colt automatic, and two 32-caliber 
Smith & Wesson revolvers ? 

Mr. Burke. A 45, and 32, and a 38, three different calibers, I think. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever heard the name of Carl Lamento ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have not ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14199 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know the man who made the complaint 
against you, Mr. Nolar? 

Mr. Burke. Mr. who? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Nolar. 

Mr. Burke. No, I don't. The complaining witnesses were up at the 
prosecutor's office. I don't know any of them. 

Mr. Kennedy. You received no penality at all ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well now, we have a situation down in St. Louis, 
that Mr. Baker was arrested for carrying a gun and nothing was 
ever done to him. We also have a situation in Detroit, that you were 
arrested for shooting a gun off in the lobby of the hotel and nothing 
happened to you. 

Mr. Burke. It happened it was an innocent deal, and I was showing 
another man the gun, and how beautiful it was, and the safety was 
off, and they pulled the trigger thinking we shot them all out a target, 
and there was a cartridge left in there. 

Senator Kennedy. Mr. Burke, now as I understand it, the gentle- 
man who made the complaint has stated that he was warned to with- 
draw the complaint. 

Mr. Burke. I didn't know anything about it, I assure you. 

Senator Kennedy. Either he is not telling the truth, Mr. Burke ? or 
someone doesn't gratuitously do it for you without your knowing 
about it. 

Mr. Burke. I don't know a thing about it. 

Senator Kennedy. I don't understand why there is no record avail- 
able in the police department in regard to this in Detroit. That is 
strange, isn't it? 

Mr. Burke. Well, you will find that we went in and all of the 
numbers were taken down and they had them at the detective bureau 
and they took me over to the prosecutor's office, and the prosecutor 
asked the police, "Where did you find the guns," and they found them 
in my dresser drawer. 

Senator Kennedy. There is no record of that. 

Mr. Burke. Well, the prosecutor told them they are registered and 
there is no complaint here, and the complaining witnesses came in the 
following day and I had to go down there again, but the witnesses 
said they didn't want to prosecute, realizing it was an accident and 
there was no case. 

Senator Kennedy. The complaining witness came down the next 
day? 

Mr. Burke. Does that sound right ? 

Senator Kennedy. It sounds all right. 

Mr. Burke. That is exactly the way it happened. 

Senator Kennedy. Now the complaining witness came down the 
next day, and then he stated after coming down there, the next day, 
that he didn't want to push the case? 

Mr. Burke. There wasn't one complaining witness, there were five 
in the lobby. 

Senator Kennedy. Why would they come down the next day, then, 
if they didn't want to push it? 

Mr. Burke. The police went in there, and subpeaned them or 
something, and brought them down there to find out more about it. 



14200 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Kennedy. They weren't witnesses. They were complain- 
ing witnesses. 

Mr. Burke. Well, complaining witnesses, they went down there, 
and they didn't want to go down, realizing it was an accident, and 
they were taken down there by the law, you know. 

Senator Kennedy. I would like to ask the counsel if he has some 
record of one of these witnesses having been threatened or warned 
in regard to withdrawing the complaint. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, we have. One of the individuals who made 
the charge, living at the hotel, was warned by a man who identified 
himself as Carl Lamento not to press the matter any further. 

Mr. Burke. Well, five witnesses showed up. 

Senator Kennedy. Does that sound all right, Mr. Burke? 

Mr. Burke. It doesn't sound good to me. No. 1, I don't know the 
man's name,, and that is for sure, and I never heard of him. But I 
know there were five witnesses went down and told their story and 
the prosecutor was satisfied that nobody was hurt, and it was an 
accident. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have permits to carry all of these guns ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have a separate permit for each gun? 

Mr. Burke. No, a permit for the State, target to target, it reads, 
and I have had it for years. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't have to have a permit for each gun? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You can have one permit and carry as many guns 
as you want? 

Mr. Burke. For targets. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is the target, and what is that ? 

Mr. Burke. The gun clubs, the biggest gun clubs in the country; 
there is one here in Washington. 

Mr. Kennedy. If you have a permit or belong to a gun club, does 
that mean you can carry as many and as different kinds of guns as 
you want? 

Mr. Burke. You just can't go with one, and you have a whole box 
of them. 

Mr. Kennedy. You can carry as many and have as many kinds of 
guns as you want? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't need a permit to carry a gun or have a 
gun? 

Mr. Burke. On your person, but you carry them to the target in 
a box, and they are in fancy boxes, and these are not just ordinary 
guns, and this is fancy stuff. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had guns down in Florida, too, didn't you ? 

Mr. Burke. The same guns. 

Mr. Kennedy. How does somebody know that you are just using 
them to targets and not using them on some person? What is the 
assurance on that ? 

Mr. Burke. Well, they are always in my possession, and always in 
my room, and, if they were used on somebody, there are ballistics to 
take care of that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you throw one of your guns away down in 
Florida? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14201 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you take it down to the bay and throw it in the 
bay? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you were down in Florida, did you have 
jewelry in your room ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. No kind of jewelry ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you deal in jewelry at all, yourself? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you assist in organizing the carnivals at all, 
Mr. Burke? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir ; I was on the Ringling Bros, dispute, and that 
is the closest thing to it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever tell anyone that you had assisted in 
pulling down the bleachers and some people had been killed in it ? 

Mr. Burke. Did I what ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever tell anyone that you and several others 
had pulled down the bleachers of a carnival and some people had been 
killed? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Either a circus or a carnival ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever call or telephone the owner or manager 
of the Hialeah Racetrack and tell them that you wanted some money 
for not organizing ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have testimony of Ruth Brougher that you had 
made such a telephone call. 

Mr. Burke. It was in the Detroit papers last night that I stole 
$15,000 from Hialeah, and why don't they get a hold of Mr. Mori, 
and give me a break here, and have him verify it if I ever called him 
up. I don't know Mori from a load of hay, and I was never in the 
racetrack and I don't bet horses and why did they connect me up ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you call him ? 

Mr. Burke. I would lose my job over it. 

Mr. Kennedy. From the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. I don't believe that. 

Mr. Burke. Well, I do. I was told last night, after this hearing 
today, he said, "You know " 

Mr. Kennedy. Who said this to you ? 

Mr. Burke. My boss. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is that ? 

Mr. Burke. He is in Detroit. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is your boss that is going to get rid of you in 
the Teamsters Union? I would like to know his name. 

(Witness consulted with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was that, Mr. Burke ? 

(Witness consulted with his counsel.) 

21243— 59— pt. 38 5 



14202 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Burke. I got the conversation by phone, and I don't know 
who it was, and he told me I was going to be let out, and "you are out 
stealing $15,000," and I would like to have $15,000. 

The Chairman. Just a moment. You said your boss, and who is 
your boss? 

Mr. Burke. I don't know which one, and I have five bosses. 

The Chairman. Name the five. 

Mr. Burke. There is Holmes and Fitzsimmons. 

The Chairman. Who is that ? 

Mr. Burke. Fitzsimmons, and there are Holmes, and there is Col- 
lins, and there is Emery. 

The Chairman. And who else ? 

Mr. Burke. And Gilbert, who signs my check. 

The Chairman. Do you know them well ? 

Mr. Burke. Not too well ; no. 

The Chairman. Do they know you very well? 

Mr. Burke. Well, I believe so, and they know I am working there, 
and they are paying me. 

The Chairman. How long have you been working for them % 

Mr. Burke. Since 1937. 

The Chairman. Would you recognize them if you saw them.? 

Mr. Burke. I wouldn't be a bit surprised. I recognized you when 
I saw you. 

The Chairman. Would you recognize their voices ? 

Mr. Burke. I believe I would. 

The Chairman. Which one of them called you ? 

Mr. Burke. Well, I believe I would if I heard it again. I never 
talked to them before on the phone. 

The Chairman. Don't you know you are being silly? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

The Chairman. You know who called you, and do you want to sit 
there and perj ure yourself about it ? Who called you ? 

Mr. Burke. Every time somebody calls you, do you know the voice? 

The Chairman. Who called you, if anyone ? 

Mr. Burke. I don't know which one it was that called me and told 
me to be careful, I was going to lose my job. 

The Chairman. Where did you receive the call ? 

Mr. Burke. In my hotel. 

The Chairman. What is your room number? 

Mr. Burke. 1167. 

The Chairman. 1167, and what hotel? 

Mr. Burke. The Woodner. 

The Chairman. Check on that. Some member of the staff check, 
on it at once and trace that telephone call. 

Let us have order. 

(The witness consulted with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Let us proceed. 

Do you want to tell us who called you ? 

Mr. Burke. I don't know, they called me from the office, and said, 
"You stole $15,000, and you might get fired over it." 

The Chairman. What did he say to you ? 

Mr. Burke. He called me and he didn't want to talk over those 
phones, and all of the phones in Washington are bugged any way, 
and they didn't want to leave their name. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14203 

The Chairman. You are sure of that ? 

Mr. Burke. I am sure of it. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan, Ives, Church, Kennedy, Goldwater, and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. You are sure of it ? 

Mr. Burke. I am positive. 

The Chairman. Do you know who bugged it ? 

Mr. Burke. No. He said to me over the phone that "All those 
phones down there, I suppose, are bugged. I don't want to leave my 
name, but you are going to be fired on account of that $15,000 you 
stole." 

The Chairman. Did he say he was your boss ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

The Chairman. Which one did he say he was? 

Mr. Burke. He didn't say. 

The Chairman. How many telephone calls did you get last night ? 

Mr. Burke. I don't know. Maybe a half a dozen or so. 

The Chairman. Long distance calls ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 

The Chairman. Who were the others from ? 

Mr. Burke. Do I have to tell you who calls me ? 

The Chairman. Well, you better, in my judgment. You have a 
lawyer to advise you. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. All right, let's move along. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. All right. Who called you ? 

Mr. Burke. I talked to the Helen Secretarial Service. 

The Chairman. Who? 

Mr. Burke. Helen Secretarial Service. 

The Chairman. Where is it located ? 

Mr. Burke. Downtown Detroit. 

The Chairman. Who else did you talk to ? 

Mr. Burke. Her husband. 

The Chairman. What did you say you talked to first ? 

Mr. Burke. What? 

The Chairman. What did you say you talked to first ? 

Mr. Burke. His wife. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Helen's Secretarial Service. 

The Chairman. Helen's Secretarial Service? 

Mr. Fitzgerald. That is the name of a place. I imagine he is talk- 
ing about Helen. I am sorry. 

The Chairman. Well, you couldn't have talked to a secretarial serv- 
ice's husband. 

Mr. Burke. Well, she runs the place. 

The Chairman. What is her name ? 

Mr. Burke. Gercio. 

The Chairman. Give her full name. 

Mr. Burke. Helen Gercio. 

The Chairman. You talked to her ? 

Mr. Burke. Then her husband, Benny Gercio. 

The Chairman. She called you, did she ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. 



14204 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. That is one call. While you were talking to her, 
you also talked to her husband ? 

Mr. Burke. No, an hour and a half later. 

The Chairman. An hour and a half later her husband called you ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. An hour after that I talked to his sister. 

The Chairman. Let's get one at a time now. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

The Chairman. Come on, we will get the whole family. Let's 
go. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Can I have just a moment, Mr. Chairman? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Let's go. I want to get the names of the persons 
you talked to, who called you long distance last night. 

Mr. Burke. Helen Gercio first. 

The Chairman. One. 

Mr. Burke. Benny Gercio second. 

The Chairman. That is two. 

Mr. Burke. And his sister. 

The Chairman. What is her name ? 

Mr. Burke. Marlene. 

The Chairman. Marlene who ? 

Mr. Burke. Gercio. 

The Chairman. That is three Gercios now. 

Mr. Burke. It is his sister. 

The Chairman. Who else ? 

Mr. Burke. That is all. 

The Chairman. Who are the other two ? 

Mr. Burke. That is all. I don't remember the other two. 

The Chairman. You said there were 4 or 5, or 6. 

Mr. Burke. In and out calls I made, but I forget which ones they 
were now. They were women. They were girls. You know? 

The Chairman. Girls calling you long distance ? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. Girls out of work. 

The Chairman. Girls that are out of work. Well, if you will 
give us their names, I think we can help them get a job. 

Mr. B orke. I wouldn't be a bit surprised. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. You better come clean. I am going to be reason- 
ably patient, but I am not going to do this all day long. Who else 
did you talk to ? 

Mr. Burke. I don't even know how to talk up here. 

I read my name in the newspapers I stole $15,000. 

The Chairman. I did not ask you that. I asked who else did you 
talk to? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Let's go. 

Mr. Burke. That is all. 

The Chairman. You swear, now, those are the only one you talked 
to? 

Mr. Burke. That is all. 

The Chairman. What was the difference in time between the first 
call you received from the Mrs. what is her name ? 

Mr. Burke. Sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. Gercio. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14205 

The Chairman. You talked to her first Then you talked to her 
husband ? 

Mr. Burke, That is right. 

The Chairman. And each of them called you ? 

Mr. Burke. No, wait a minute. It is switched around. Marlene, 
the sister I talked to. Then I talked to Benny. 

The Chairman. You talked to Mrs. Gercio first, and then you 
talked to Marlene, his sister, next ? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 

The Chairman. And then you talked to Benny ? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 

The Chairman, That was the third call ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. Let's start with the first one. What 
time did you get that call ? 

Mr. Burke. Approximately 9 o'clock. 

The Chairman. 9; all right. How long was it before you got 
the call from Marlene ? 

Mr. Burke. Around 10. 

The Chairman. 10 from Marlene. When did you get the call 
from Benny? 

Mr. Burke. Around 11. 

The Chairman. Were these all business calls ? 

Mr. Burke. No, just social. 

The Chairman. Do they all live together ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And you had three sociable calls from them from 
9 o'clock to 11 last night. There was not any trouble to remember 
it, was it? 

Mr. Burke. No. 

The Chairman. Now, who else called you ? 

Mr. Burke. I just can't think. I had a lot of calls. 

The Chairman. What has happened to you that you can't re- 
member last night? 

Mr. Burke. Well, I get calls all day long and I don't 
remember 

The Chairman. Yes, but you got some last night. You can cer- 
tainly remember back to last night ? 

Mr. Burke. You gentlemen are all reading off a scrip up there. 

The Chairman. I am not reading off of anything. I am looking 
at you. 

Mr. Burke. You are surprising me with questions that I never 

The Chairman. I expect to surprise you. 

Mr. Burke. That I did not think was important, or I would have 
made notes. 

The Chairman. I don't care what you think. You either answer 
these questions, or testify falsely, or give us the information or refuse 
to testify. 

Mr. Burke. Well, listen, don't I have time to think and get them 
together for you maybe tonight and bring them to you ? 

The Chairman. Yes. I will give you 2 more minutes. Get them 
together. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



14206 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Burke. Mr. Senator, I just can't remember who the others were 
from. 

The Chairman. You can't what ? 

Mr. Burke. I can't recall. If I have time to check, I can check. 

The Chairman. No, I don't need you to check. We can check very 
well. 

But I want you to testify. You have come up here and made this 
horseplay about getting a call from your boss. We asked who your 
boss was, and you say you have five and you didn't know which one 
it was that called you. You said he wouldn't state his name over the 
telephone because the telephones were bugged. 

You have known him since 1937. You knew his voice. 

Mr. Burke. I don't know their voices. 

The Chairman. You don't mean for anybody to believe that. 

Mr. Burke. I never have no occasions to talk to them on the phone. 

The Chairman. You never talked to them? Do you mean you 
haven't talked to them on the telephone before this ? 

Mr. Burke. For what reason ? 

The Chairman. Are you testifying to that ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Since 1937 you haven't talked to your bosses on the 
telephone ? 

Mr. Burke. Very seldom. 

The Chairman. I didn't say seldom or otherwise. You have talked 
to them on the telephone, haven't you? 

Mr. Burke. Very little. I can't distinguish their voices. 

The Chairman. You can't ? 

Mr. Burke. Unless they give me their name, no. 

The Chairman. You wouldn't know one through the other ? 

Mr. Burke. Not through the voice. 

The Chairman. Do you think anybody believes that, people you 
have known 37 years and you could not tell one voice from another ? 

Mr. Burke. Some of them I don't know 37 years. Some of them 
just come to work last 

The Chairman. Since 1937. I was thinking of 37 years. 

Mr. Burke. That is right. But they haven't all been working, all 
the bosses haven't been working there that long. 

The Chairman. All right. Have you told all you are going to tell 
about those calls ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What was it you said about Mr. Mori, you would 
like to have him do you a favor? 

Mr. Burke. Yes. I would like to have it cleared out, I would like 
to have Mr. Mori tell you people instead of coming through some under- 
ground channels. 

The Chairman. All right. This isn't quite underground. Listen 
to it. I read to you an affidavit from Mr. Mori. 

I, Eugene Mori, make the following voluntary statement to Walter J. Sheridan 
who has identified himself as an investigator for the United States Senate Select 
Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field. 

I am president of the Hialeah Racetrack. 

Sometime in the latter part of 1955 I received a telephone call from a person 
who identified himself to me as Tom Burke of the Teamsters Union. He said 
that he was down in Miami where he was organizing all the racetracks. He said 
that he would like to meet with me to discuss the situation. I told Mr. Burke 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14207 

that I saw no reason why I should meet with him. Burke told me that he was 
calling me from the Bal Harbour Hotel in Miami Beach, Fla. 

A short time later I received a second call from Burke in which he again told 
me he wanted to meet with me and stated that if I did not meet with him to 
discuss the matter, that the situation would get out of control and would become 
very uncomfortable for me. 

Later, I received a third telephone call from Burke in which he told me that 
we could settle the whole thing and he would not continue his efforts to organize 
the Hialeah Racktrack if I would give him several thousand dollars. I cannot 
recall the exact amount he requested. He mentioned that there was a woman 
in whom he was interested who was in difficulty in Florida and he wanted the 
money to assist her in obtaining her release from custody. 

I firmly rejected all of Burke's proposals, did not meet with him, have never 
met him, and had no further contact with him. I also referred the matter to 
our chief of security, John Madala. 

Eugene Moei. 

Witness : 

Thomas B. Bukns. 
City of Washington, 

District of Columbia, to wit: 

I hereby certify that on this 20th day of August 1958 before me, a notary 
public in and for the city of Washington, District of Columbia, personally 
appeared Eugene Mori and made oath in due form of law that the matters 
and things set forth in the aforegoing affidavit are true and correct to the best 
of his knowledge, information and belief. 

Wm. R. Lewis, Notary Public. 

My commission expires December 14, 1958. 

Mr. Burke. It is a trumped-up situation. I have nothing to do 
with that, Mr. Senator. Nothing. 

The Chairman. Another witness testified that you told them, and 
she heard you make the call. She was present and heard you make 
this call. And that you did demand $15,000 from him. 

Mr. Burke. There should be a record of that call. Where was it 
made from? 

The Chairman. It was made from your hotel. 

Mr. Burke. There should be a record of the call. 

The Chairman. Well, there may be. 

Mr. Burke. I am very much in doubts you will ever find one. 

The Chairman. Of course, I don't think it is recorded, but she 
heard one end of the conversation. And this fellow heard the other 
end. We have both ends of it here now. 

Mr. Burke. But it is a trumped-up situation. 

The Chairman. They just trumped up this on you ? 

Mr. Burke. There ain't no racetrack that is going to give you 
$15,000. For what reason did they give me $15,000 ? 

The Chairman. Well, they didn't for any reason, but you could 
demand it for plenty of reasons for your own purpose. 

Mr. Kennedy. We got the information from an interview with Mrs. 
Brougher in Florida when she was in prison. We then contacted 
Mr. Mori and asked whether he had ever been approached by anyone 
while in Florida in connection with a payment of money not to 
organize. He told this story completely independently about a tele- 
phone conversation he had had with someone who identified himself 
as Tom Burke during 1955. 

Mr. Burke. The money changed hands ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No. The affidavit is clear that the money was not 
paid. 

Mr. Burke. How silly would it be for a man to call up a racetrack 
and try to get $15,000 ? Does it sound good to you ? 



14208 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. Yes, sir, it sounds exactly like a lot of Teamsters 
have been operating. There is nothing strange about it at all, if you 
want to know how it sounds. We are familiar with the sound of it. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. We also had testimony that you were down there 
in 1955; that you did not do any work, that you were just sitting 
around resting in the hotel. They pressed you on your hotel bill 
and you kept saying " Jimmie Hoffa will take care of it.' 

Did it end up that Mr. Hoffa did take care of your hotel bill ? 

Miss B rougher said it would amount to more than $5,000. 

Mr. Burke. Mr. Hoffa had nothing — when they decided they would 
pay my expenses down there, when they found out I could not come 
back to work, that I had to stay in that climate, I done survey work 
for going through the State, and for that I had my expenses paid. 

Mr. Hoffa had nothing to do with paying the expenses. There was 
a man named Kavner who was with the Central States Drivers 
Council, and he paid them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was president of the Central States Council ? 

Mr. Burke. Mr. Hoffa. 

Mr. Kennedy. The bill was paid out of the Central States Drivers 
Council. 

Mr. Burke. You have to meet with the board of the council in 
order to get things like that O.K'd. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was your hotel bill paid at the Bal Harbour Hotel 
by the Teamsters? 

Mr. Burke. It was paid by Mr. Kavner. I don't know whether he 
paid it in cash or check. I don't know that, either. 

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to call, if I may, Mr. Bellino. 

Mr. Burke. Let me finish. The bill was paid to a man named 
McConnell, the manager of the hotel, through Mr. Kavner. I never 
seen the transaction or anything, but I know Mr. Kavner told me my 
bill was paid, and he paid Mr. McConnell. 

Mr. Kennedy. Dick Kavner is a member of the Central States 
Drivers Council ? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. But the president of the Central States Drivers 
Council is not Mr. Kavner. It is Mr. James Hoffa. The money came 
from an organization of which he was president, No. 1, and No. 2, Ruth 
Brougher testified that you stated Mr. James Hoffa and the Teamsters 
were going to take care of the bill. 

Mr. Burke. There was a man named Kavner that came to see me at 
my hotel and he said, "Burke, I want to do something for you." 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Kavner pay it out of his own money ? 

Mr. Burke. I don't think so. It was paid through the council. 
There is nobody hiding that. That is no military secret. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't think Mr. Kavner can take $4,700 or 
whatever it was, $5,000 of Teamsters funds, as an organizer and pay 
his friend Tom Burke's bill without clearing it through higher offi- 
cials of the Teamsters Union, do you? 

Mr. Burke. Mr. Kennedy, you are so right. But he paid the bill, 
and when he made the payment, I was not there. 

He works in the field, Mr. Kavner does, in the Central States. He 
went in there. But he did tell me he paid a fellow named McConnell, 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14209 

the manager of the hotel. He said, "I seen Mr. McConnell and I 
straightened up your problems, paid your bill." 
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Bellino, what have you on him ? 

TESTIMONY OF CARMINE S. BELLINO 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bellino, have you made an examination of the 
records of the Central States Drivers Council? 
Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you found whether the hotel bill of Mr. Burke, 
while he was down in Florida, retired from the Teamsters after he had 
received some $11,000 in retirement funds, was paid by the Teamsters 
Union ? 

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us what the records show ? 
Mr. Bellino. We have one check which is dated December 14, 1955, 
payable to the Bal Harbour Hotel in the total amount of $4,358.46. 

Mr. Burke. Mr. Senator, he keeps on clicking that thing in my face. 
It confuses me. 

Mi-. Bellino. That was applied against Tom Burke's account at the 
Bal Harbour Hotel. A check dated August 15, 1956, payable to the 
Bal Harbour Hotel in the amount of $5,669.60, for a total oi $10,428.06, 
covering his stay from March 29, 1955, to July 20, 1956. 
The Chairman. What period of time ? 
Mr. Bellino. March 29, 1955, to July 20, 1956. 
Mr. Kennedy. Could I ask him who signed the checks? 
Mr. Burke. The checks were signed by James R. Hoffa and H. J. 
Gibbons. 

The Chairman. The documents there may be made exhibit No. 68, 
in bulk. 

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 68" for ref- 
erence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 
The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Bellino, what kind of expenses did this man 
incur over a period of 16 months that amount to $10,000? 

Mr. Bellino. His room rent on this bill, dated July 20, 1956, 
amounted to approximately $1,900; meals and beverage, the largest 
item, $2,422.45. 

Senator Curtis. Over how long a time ? 

Mr. Bellino. This appears to cover from December 14, 1955, 
through July 19, 1956. 

Senator Curtis. About 7 months ? 

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. And local telephone calls were $271 ; long- 
distance calls, $282; telegrams, $18.26; valet, $98.05; beach $43.79; 
cash advanced $367.83. This is only the $5,580 bill. The other one 
we don't have broken down in that manner. It is rather detailed. 
Senator Curtis. But it does figure up to about 16 months ? 
Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. And in round figures of $10,000 ? 
Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. 
(At this point, Senator Kennedy withdrew from the hearing room.) 



14210 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OP TOM BURKE— Resumed 

The Chairman. Mr. Burke, the Chair presents to you a photostatic 
copy of a letter. Will you examine it and state if you identify it ? 

(The documents were handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

(At this point, Senator Kennedy entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Burke. What do you want to know about this, Mr. Senator ? 

The ( "hairman. Did you receive it ? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 69. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 69" for refer- 
ence and will be found in the appendix on p. 14534.) 

The Chairman. Did you write Mr. Gibbons in connection with 
these expenses you were incurring ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Sir? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Burke. When was that supposed to be ? 

The Chairman. Any time while you were down there, charging 
these expenses to the union. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Burke. I may have. 

The Chairman. While I am reading this other letter, will you ex- 
amine this photostatic copy of a letter which I now present to you 
and state if you identify it ? 

( The document was handed to the witness. ) 

The Chairman. This letter, exhibit 69, reads as follows : December 
14, 1955, Mr. Tom Burke, Bal Harbour Hotel, Miami Beach, Fla. 

Dear Tom : Enclosed is a check for $471, which represents a $200 advance on 
your expenses and $271 for the repair on your automobile. Under separate cover 
I have already forwarded the check for $4,358.46 direct to the hotel to cover your 
hotel bill. As per our telephone conversation, you are to make arrangements to 
leave Miami immediately and report for assignment at the office of Vice President 
Hoffa, Detroit, Mich. 

Fraternally yours, 

H. J. Gibbons, Secretary. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you identify the check, Mr. Bellino ? 

The Chairman. I hand you the photostatic copy of the check, Mr. 
Bellino, for the check of four-hundred-and-some dollars? 

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir ; dated December 14, 1955, in the amount of 
$471. 

The Chairman. Let that be made exhibit 69A. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit 69A" for refer- 
ence and will be found in the appendix on p. 14535.) 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Burke. 

It looks like what you may have written ; doesn't it ? 

Mr. Burke. It looks like somebody was kidding somebody. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is a most significant letter on the operation of 
the Teamsters and the opinion that Mr. Hoffa, Mr. Gibbons and other 
officials have of the Teamsters Union. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14211 

The Chairman. This letter is dated June 28, 1955. Harold J. 
Gibbons, Central States Drivers' Council, 1127 Pine Street, St. Louis, 
Mo. 

Dear Friend : Enclosed please find hotel bills which will cover the $500 I re- 
ceived at Boynton Beach for organizing expenses. As you will note, they are from 
Miami Beach rather than Boynton Beach. This is due to the serious sunburn I 
had prior to leaving that area. Upon my recovery, I neglected to collect my paid 
receipts. I assume that this is satisfactory. Thank you very much for every- 
thing. When I get my hands on a bundle, I will pay you back. My kindest 
personal regards to yourself and your family, your friend and your brother, 

Tom Burke. 

P.S. You and Hoffa are two good kids. 

That letter may be made exhibit No. 70. 

( The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 70" and will be 
found in the appendix on p. 14536.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to ask you what this means, Mr. Burke. 

When I get my hands on a bundle, I will pay you back. 

Mr. Burke. Bundle ? It sounds like laundry. 

I never use that expression. I don't know where it comes from. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just like Mr. Baker never uses the word package? 
This is your letter. It says, "When I get my hands on a bundle, I will 
pay you back.*' 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Burke. I may have written that letter. 

The Chairman. What does that mean ? 

Mr. Burke. The bundle ? I don't understand the bundle. It might 
be laundry. I always get a big bundle of laundry. I never use that 
expression. 

The Chairman. You were going to pay it back with dirty laundry 
or clean laundry ? 

Mr. Burke. I never use that expression, that is why I say, I don't 
know where it came from. 

Mr. Kennedy. You used it this time. There was talk about paying 
money. There was talk about their paying your bills. 

You call them two good kids. You say when you get your hands on 
a bundle, you will be able to pay them back. Was this part of the 
money you were receiving from some of these employees ? 

Mr. Burke. Sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. Was this some of the money you were receiving from 
these employers? 

Mr. Burke. What money? 

Mr. Kennedy. The bundle ? Is that what you were talking about ? 

Mr. Burke. I never received no money from no employers. If I did, 
I wouldn't be on that job as long as I have been. 

Senator Church. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Church. 

Senator Church. Mr. Burke, I heard you testify a few minutes ago 
that when you went to Florida you had retired and you went down 
for your health ; is that right ? 

Mr. Burke. That is right. 



14212 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Church. At the time you retired, you received a retirement 
benefit or at least a payment of something in excess of $11,000 from 
the Teamsters Union; is that right? 

Mr. Burke. Yes, sir. 

Senator Church. What was the Teamsters Union, then, doing pay- 
ing you or paying hotel bills for you after you had retired in the 
amount of $4,358.46 ? And plus additional payments. 

Mr. Burke. Well, after 1 arrived and stayed in Florida a month or 
two, I recovered somewhat and I went out and went to work, making 
a survey of the whole State. They paid me for my troubles. There is 
nothing unusual about that. 

Senator Church. What would you call it, fringe benefits on retire- 
ment? 

Mr. Burke. Call it what you may. Who is talking? I can't see 
them. 

Senator Church. I am talking. 

Mr. Burke. What did you say ? 

Senator Church. I just want to know what the Teamsters Union 
is doing paying this very large amount of money for your hotel bills 
and for other things after you retired in 1954. 

Mr. Burke. Well, when I retired I was a sick man. That is why 
I retired. That is why I went off the payroll. I was forced to go to 
that climate. I was a sick man. The Teamsters Union don't forget 
people when they are sick. They take good care of you. 

Senator Church. Did you go back to work for the Teamsters 
Union while you were in Florida ? 

Mr. Burke. Every time I got a chance to, when I felt good enough, 
and then maybe a couple of weeks, or 3 weeks, I would be traveling 
through the State, and I would have to come back to the hotel and see 
my doctors, and they would tell me to stay off for a month or maybe 
two. 

Senator Church. It was during that time that you worked up a 
$4,358 hotel bill which the Teamsters later paid for ?• 

Mr. Burke. I believe that is what it was, but I did not pay the bill, 
and I was not there enough. 

Senator Church. Whether you were there or not does not seem to 
me to be the relevant question. The facts in evidence make it clear that 
the Teamsters Union paid the bill and the check was signed by Mr. 
Gibbons and Mr. Hoffa. 

Mr. Burke. It was delivered by Mr. Kavner. He is the one who 
made the payment. 

Senator Church. This is the kind of retirement program, I think, 
that most everybody would like to get in on. Mr. Burke, I have here a 
check in the amount of $11,815.94, which appears to be a lump-sum 
payment to you. This was the payment that was made to you at the 
time you retired in 1954. 

Mr. Burke. That is true. 

Senator Church. Was that then in full settlement of your entitle- 
ment ? 

Mr. Burke. That is true. 

The Chairman". Mr. Bellino, is this the retirement check you testified 
to? 

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. This is the original ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14213 

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Let it be made exhibit No. 71. 

(The check referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 71," for reference 
and will be found in the appendix on p. 14537.) 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never have dealt in stolen jewelry or stolen furs, 
Mr. Burke? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not have any jewelry down there ? 

Mr. Burke. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all for now. 

The Chairman. All right. Are there any questions ? All right, you 
may stand aside for the present. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Fitzgerald. Can he be excused now, to be called later ? 

The Chairman. He may be called again this afternoon. We can't de- 
termine until we have another witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bowers. This will be a short witness, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bowers. 

Senator Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, previously there was a comment 
about a phone number of Governor Harriman's found in Mr. Baker's 
possession when he was arrested in 1953 and the number was BUtter- 
held 8-8887. I have checked the Manhattan phone book and that was 
a publicized number of Governor Harriman in that year. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this 
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bowers. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF B. B. BOWERS, JR. 

The Chairman. State your name and your place of residence and 
your business or occupation, please. 

Mr. Bowers. My name is B. B. Bowers, Jr., and I live at 520-530 
Southwest Fourth street, Miami, Fla. 

The Chairman. What is your business or occupation ? 

Mr. Bowers. Property management. 

The Chairman. Property management ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ? 

Mr. Bowers. I do, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bowers, you had an estate called Had Her 
Way? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you had that estate in 1955 ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you approached in the summer of 1955 about 
renting that estate ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. By whom were you approached ? 

Mr. Bowers. It is on the lease there, if I could have that. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is that ? 



14214 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Bowers. She was supposed to be the secretary of the union 
on Miami Beach. 

The Chairman. I present you here to refresh your memory, first 
for your identification, and to refresh your memory, a copy of the 
lease to which I think you were referring, and here is also an addenda 
to it, and you may examine both of them at the same time. 

(Documents handed to witness.) 

Mr. Bowers. This is the original of a lease prepared by Koslyn 
Churnin, who was presumably or represented herself to be secretary 
of a union on Miami Beach. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of a union % 

Mr. Bowers. She did not say what kind of a union at the time, 
just she was secretary of a union, or the union on Miami Beach. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you first hear about her? 

Mr. Bowers. The house was advertised for rent and I was living 
at the place at the time, and she came by, and she talked to me about 
the house, and she said that she had a lady who had asthma and 
wanted to move into a home of pecky cypress and she thought it 
would be better for her to be out on the edge of town. She asked 
me if I would come over to the motel, Blue Bay Motel, I think, at 
the end of 79th Street Causeway, and talk to her that evening. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you go over there ? 

Mr. Bowers. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you see there ? 

Mr. Bowers. I saw Miss Brougher, Mr. Baker, and some 3 or 4 
other people, another lady or 2, and I don't recall just who they 
were. As a result of that, Mr. Baker and Miss Churnin or Mrs. 
Churnin, whoever she might be, drove in their Cadillac and followed 
us and Miss Brougher's Buick convertible down to the property south 
of Miami, about 12 miles from the heart of Miami. They liked the 
property very much. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of property is that ? 

Mr. Bowers. It is a small estate, and it has a swimming pool, an 
acre and a quarter, built of pecky cypress. 

Mr. Kennedy. Go ahead. 

Mr. Bowers. So they liked the property very much, and said they 
would take it and the rent was $225 a month, and they maintained the 
property, which is equal to about $200 a month, or about $425. She 
paid me $125 and she wanted her attorney to prepare the lease. At 
the time the property was up for sale, and we agreed that in case 
she moved out within the year she would give me a 30-day notice, 
and if the property was sold she should have a 30-day notice. I 
don't remember whether it was the next day or 2 or 3 days after that 
she moved into the property. Miss Churnin is the one who paid me 
at all times. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any conversations with them ? When 
you say she moved into the property, who moved in ? 

Mr. Bowers. Miss Brougher and her maid, and a colored fellow, 
and I think it was the brother of the maid or husband of the maid, 
and I don't recall. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was paying all of the bills for these people? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know about their bills, but Miss Churnin paid 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14215 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you understand the money was coming 
from? 

Mr. Bowers. From the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Bowers. Miss Churnin and Miss Brougher. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did Miss Brougher say ? 

Mr. Bowers. She said I didn't have to worry, that the union was 
paying the bills. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Mr. Baker, and what relationship did 
he have with this situation ? 

Mr. Bowers. I did not see Mr. Baker after that until possibly 3 
weeks later — 2 or 3 weeks later. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you see him ? 

Mr. Bowers. Miss Churnin had paid the bills and had brought 
the lease down to the house, and called me and asked me to meet her 
at the house, and she would have the lease. So I went down and I 
got there a little bit before she did, and I talked to Miss Brougher, 
and she happened to see this ring on my finger and she said, "Let 
me show you some diamonds," and she went into a room and came 
out with a pasteboard carton, I would say it was about 6 by about 4, and 
the diamonds all had little catches on them like you see in the store, 
a jewelry store window, I would say, and she poured them out on 
the table, and we were looking at them. About that time Miss Churnin 
came around the corner of the Florida Room, and she came in and 
she had the $425 which would have been the first and last month, 
because they had been in there about a month, and she started counting 
out the money. About that time Mr. Baker walked around the corner, 
and Miss Brougher said, "Oh, God, this jewelry has got to get to 
New York tonight." 

Mr. Baker walked in and walked back through the bathroom and 
she picked the jewelry up and walked into the bedroom. He came 
out first, and she came out next, and she said, "Well, that is over." 
Miss Churnin paid me the money and I said, "Well, Miss Churnin, 
I will take this lease over and look it over and you bring it by the 
office in the morning and we will execute it." And she did. 

Mr. Kennedy. You say Miss Brougher had a lot of jewelry at 
that time ? 

Mr. Bowers. She did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any estimate of the value of the 
Jewelry ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I saw one star sapphire that had a cluster of 
diamonds, 25 or 30 carats, and I can hazard a guess that the jewelry 
was worth approximately $75,000 to $100,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. She said she had to turn this over to Baker ? 

Mr. Bowers. She did not say that. She said, "This must go to 
New York tonight". 

Mr. Kennedy. She walked with the box of jewelry into the bedroom 
with Baker? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was her remark after she came out of the 
bedroom ? 



14216 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Bowers. Baker came out first and she came out following, 
and she said, "Well, that is over with." And she said, "I have to go 
to New York in the next couple of days and 1 won't be here, any 
anything you do about Miss Churnin will be all right with me." 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever meet Tom Burke? 

Mr. Bowers. She introduced me to Tom Burke one afternoon, and 
I used to go down quite often to show the colored fellow how to 
vacuum the pool and filter the pool, and operate the sprinklers and 
the mortars. 

Mr. Kennedy. "Who was Tom Burke ? Did you know who he was ? 

Mr. Bowers. I never saw or heard of him before, and I saw him 
a couple or three times, but that was the first time I ever saw him. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was he doing around there ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, he was just lounging around and going in the 
pool, and she introduced me to him as a man who owned a stable of 
horses. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Baker ? What was he doing ? 

Mr. Bowers. They did not tell me, except Miss Churnin told me 
that he was her boss. 

Mr. Kennedy. Baker was her boss ? 

Mr. Bowers. He was her union boss. 

Mr. Kennedy. And was he the one supposed to be paying the 
bills? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, she said the union would pay the bills, and 
I did not know whether it came from Mr. Baker or not, and he 
never paid me any money. 

Mr. Kennedy. How were the bills paid, by check or by cash ? 

Mr. Bowers. All in cash, always. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, did you see them much after that? 

Mr. Bowers. I never saw Mr. Baker after that at all. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never saw whom? 

Mr. Bowers. Mr. Baker. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not see him in jail ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, I saw him after she was in jail, and I thought 
you meant while they were living at the house. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tell us what happened about that. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, some 6 weeks or 2 months after the lease was 
signed, I was down early and her children were there, and I picked 
up the Miami Herald one morning, and I had heard and read, of 
course, of the trouble Miss Brougher had been in, through the Miami 
Herald, some 2 or 3 years prior to that, but I did not connect it. 
I saw her picture in the paper and I went down the next day and 
she said, "Well, I guess you saw my picture in the paper and you 
want me to move," and I said, "The house is sold, and I would appre- 
ciate it if I could get custody of it." And she said, "All right." So 
I said, "I will refund your last month's rent less your telephone bill," 
and her daughter came by the apartment, oh, 2 or 3 nights after that, 
and I gave the check and I believe it was $143 to refund her last 
month's rent, less the light bill and the telephone bill, out of the $225. 
I did not hear anything from Miss Brougher for maybe 2 weeks. Her 
daughter told me she was staying at the Bal Harbor Hotel, and I 
noticed that is where the check was cashed, so T went over and I got 
a telephone call to come up to the jail and see Miss Brougher. I went 
up to see her and when they brought her down, I talked to her and 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14217 

Mr. Baker was there, and she mentioned something about her Buick 
to me. I said, "Well, I don't know whether I can do anything about 
it or not," and she said, "Well, we won't worry about it." I said, 
"Why don't you get yourself a lawyer and see what you can do?" 
I suggested an attorney there; he is now a judge. She said, "No," 
and she turned around to walk out, and she said, "No, we have plenty 
of power in Tallahassee." 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is "we"? 

Mr. Bowers. She was referring to Mr. Baker and he walked out. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was Miss Brougher doing, did you know? 
What was it, just staying at the hotel or just staying at your place? 

Mr. Bowers. I did not see her do anything, and she told me or 
Miss Churnin told me she moved there because of having asthma, and 
she was sick, and I asked a couple of times after that, and she said 
she felt much better. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the end ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is the last I saw of her until she walked in the 
courtroom. 

The Chairman. Is there any doubt in your mind that Mr. Baker 
saw that box of jewels? 

Mr. Bowers. I can give you my opinion, that she gave him the 
jewels to take to New York, is my opinion. 

The Chairman. I know, but when he came out, when she was 
displaying them there, I think you said she poured them out. 

Mr. Bowers. That was when he came in. She had them poured 
out on the table and Miss Churnin came in first and she had the 
money in cash. Then she said, "My God, there comes Mr. Baker. 
These jewels have got to go to New York tonight." They walked 
into the bedroom at this angle. He came out first. I did not see 
anything in his hands, and she said, "That is over." 

The Chairman. The question I am trying to determine is, could 
there be any doubt that Mr. Baker saw the jewels there in your pres- 
ence as he walked in there ? 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir, there is no doubt about it. 

The Chairman. They were spread out on the table. 

Mr. Bowers. She was picking them up off the table, and there was 
an enormous pile of them. 

The Chairman. How many separate pieces of jewelry would you 
say, or stones, or whatever it was? You say you gave your estimate 
of $75,000, roughly. 

Mr. Bowers. I did that, because I had been talking with her about 
the jewelry when she first came up, and she poured them out on the 
table. I said, "Merciful heavens, where did you get all of those 
diamonds?" I know that sapphire was worth ten to fifteen thousand 
dollars. She had diamonds of 4, 5, and 3 carats, nearly each type of 
diamond you could think of. It was easily worth $75,000 to $100,000. 

The Chairman. It was not a case of 4, 5, or 6 pieces of jewelry. 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir. There was nearly a quart of them. 

Senator Curtis. Were those unmounted stones or were they 
mounted on rings? 

Mr. Bowers. Every one that I saw was mounted in a ring, a bracelet 
or something, mostly diamond rings. They had a little celluloid clip 
on them like you see in the windows of a jewelry store. 

Senator Curtis. That has a price tag and a number ? 

21243— 59— pt. 38 6 



14218 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Bowers. A number, and then the price is under it. Some of 
them were priced $1,500, some $25,000, some $300, some $10,000. 

Senator Curtis. The prices were on them ? 

Mr. Bowers. On them, on the little cellophane tags. 

Senator Curtis. Those tags were on them ? 

Mr. Bowers. They were on them. 

Senator Curtis. Were most of these jewels rings ? 

Mr. Bowers. Kings ? 

Senator Curtis. Were they all rings or some of them pins ? 

Mr. Bowers. There could have been a pin or two, but I think they 
were practically all rings, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Why would a comparative stranger be showing 
you such a collection of jewels? 

Mr. Bowers. She was a comparative stranger, and the only reason 
she saw this ring on my finger was while we were sitting waiting for 
Miss Churnin to come, and she said, "Do you want to see some dia- 
monds?" And I said, "Yes, I like diamonds." That is the only 
reason I can think of. I was not in the diamond market. 

Senator Curtis. I understand. 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Did it create any question in your mind why you 
were shown what you have described as a quart of precious jewels? 

Mr. Bowers. It did not create any impression as to why I was being 
shown the rings, but it created an idea as to where the dickens they 
came from. That is all. I never saw any one person with that many 
diamonds in my life. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much, sir. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Thomas Douglass. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall 
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Douglass. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS L. DOUGLASS 

The Chairman. State your name, please, your place of residence, 
and your business or occupation. 

Mr. Douglass. My name is Thomas L. Douglass. I live at 151 
Northeast 152d Street in Miami. 

The Chairman. What is your business ? 

Mr. Douglass. I am in the jewelry business. 

The Chairman. Jewelry ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes. 

The Chairman. How long have you been in the jewelry business? 

Mr. Douglass. Three years. 

The Chairman. Mr. Douglass, you waive counsel, do you ? 

Mr. Douglass. I do. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. You also have a place in Hyannis, Mass., is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you are living up there now ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14219 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Douglass, you spell your name, D-o-u-g-l-a-s-s? 

Mr. Douglass. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the name of your shop is the Parisienne Jewel 
Shop? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you have that in Hyannis, and you also had a 
place in Miami, is that right ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1955 and 1956 you operated the Parisienne Jewel 
Shop at the Bal Harbor Hotel in Miami ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. On Miami Beach, Fla. ? 

Mr. Douglass. Part of Miami Beach. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was a new hotel opened on January 1, 1955? 

Mr. Douglass. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And owned in part, at least, by a man by the name 
of Frank McKay, Grand Rapids, Mich. ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. In about March of 1955, did Mr. Tom Burke of the 
Teamsters move into the hotel ? 

Mr. Douglass. He did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Shortly after, did Miss Ruth B rougher move in ? 

Mr. Douglass. Not too long after. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you describe in your own words what hap- 
pened then? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, Miss Brougher moved in on the penthouse. 
I think there are two or three sections of it. There are quite a few 
rooms. I would say perhaps five rooms. Maybe three bathrooms 
and a sun deck. Mr. McKay has the other rooms there. 

Mr. Burke lived on the floor underneath, and he had a single room, 
as far as I know, with a private bathroom. It was a nice room, but 
it wasn't on the ocean front. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were they very friendly, Burke and Brougher? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, they seemed to be inseparable. 

(At this point, Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Kennedy. You were in the jewelry business. Did Mr. Burke 
have any jewelry down there ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did he keep the jewelry ? 

Mr. Douglass. In his room. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there much jewelry? 

Mr. Douglass. I would say — took it out of a trunk and would fill 
the great part of the top drawer of a trunk. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he bring you in to ask you about the jewels? 

Mr. Douglass. He used to visit me in my shop quite often. He 
visited everybody. He was very friendly and very talkative and 
he drank a lot. I assumed this was why he talked so much. But it 
was a known fact that he would just talk about the Teamsters Union 
and everything in general. 

There wasn't anything to hide. He one time came into the shop 
and asked me if I would mind coming upstairs, he had some jewels 
he would like for me to appraise. I said, "Well, I am not a diamond 
jeweler." I deal in costume jewelry only. I had a very few pieces 



14220 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

of diamonds, diamond set pieces in my store. I am not a bonded 
appraiser in any way. 

But I said I would be glad to come up and if I could help him, 
I would appraise the jewelry. I went upstairs on one occasion, be- 
cause this happened several times, and he took out of a trunk a hand- 
kerchief, a big handkerchief full of diamonds. Most of them were 
diamonds. I don't remember any pins or bracelets, but there were 
many diamonds. 

He intimated or said to me that these jewels belonged to Ruth 
Brougher. I know these jewels couldn't belong to Ruth Brougher, 
because she couldn't possibly wear that many diamonds or own that 
many diamonds. He asked me to please tell him how much they 
were worth, which I tried to do with the best of my knowledge. 
There were many size rings, from 1 carat up — I would say maybe 
the top ring was a 17- or 18-carat diamond which would be very 
valuable on today's market, maybe $3,000 a carat, maybe $35,000, 
or maybe only $12,000, if it was a yellow diamond. 

Mr. Kennedy. It ranged from $12,000 to $35,000 ? 

Mr. Douglass. No, the diamonds ranged in price from about $1,000 
up. 

Mr. Kennedy. I mean this particular one. 

Mr. Douglass. This one, the least it could be worth would be 
$6,000 and it could go up to $30,000 for this one piece. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were most of the pieces worth ? Were there 
a lot of pieces worth $5,000 or $6,000 ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. And did this happen or occur more than one time ? 

Mr. Douglass. Twice. 

Mr. Kennedy. That he showed you these jewels ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right, and each time they were different 
rings. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you feel about the value each time? 
What was the value of all the jewelry that you saw in that trunk ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, not being a judge of diamonds, only an esti- 
mated guess on my part I would say at the 2 showings I saw $100,000 
worth. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Were there any tags of any kind on those rings ? 

Mr. Douglass. If there were any tags, I don't remember it. 

Senator Curtis. You heard the previous witness ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, and I didn't remember the tags. But they may 
have been on there. All my rings have tags and I just wouldn't notice 
something like that. For a man who is not dealing in jewelry, he 
would notice that right off the bat, 

Senator Curtis. Did they appear to be rings that had been worn ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, they had been worn. It looked to me like some 
of the stones were dirty, and I said, "I would have to clean these rings 
up before I could really tell you how much they are worth, because the 
dirt might tend to make a flaw in the ring, through general 
appearance." 

Senator Curtis. The metal parts of the ring would show whether 
thev had been worn ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14221 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, they are looked, I believe, like they had been 
worn. But I never saw Miss B rougher wear any of them. 

Senator Curtis. This showing to you took place in Mr. Burke's 
room ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. Was anybody else present \ 

Mr. Douglass. On one occasion, the lirst occasion, I don't recall any- 
body being there. On the second occasion, I believe some men came 
into the room, which I could not identify, and they were probably 
business acquaintances of Mr. Burke. He excused himself, which 
meant for me to leave the room, which I did do, and go back down- 
stairs. 

Senator Curtis. Did Mr. Burke say anything about where he had 
gotten these jewels ? 

Mr. Douglass. He intimated that they were Ruth Brougher's, and 
he wanted to get an appraisal and how much they were worth. But I 
though, "My gosh, where could she get so many diamonds ? " I couldn't 
imagine. 

Senator Curtis. The ring bands, were they for a lady's hand or a 
man's hand ? 

Mr. Douglass. As far as I can recollect, they were all women's rings. 
There were large emerald cut stones, there were large stones, and 
pear shape, and marquise cut, and just a very nice variety of rings, like 
you would see in Van Cleef & Arpels, on Fifth Avenue. 

Senator Curtis. Were you surprised at the showing at the quantity % 

Mr. Douglass. Well, when you see that many diamonds rolled up in 
an handkerchief it does make you a little surprised or wonder where 
they came from, or something like that. 

Senator Curtis. The only explanation Burke gave was that they 
were Miss Brougher's ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is the only way I knew where they came from. 

Senator Curtis. Did Burke say that they were Miss Brougher's ? 

Mr. Douglass. He intimated that he had some rings of Ruth's that 
he wanted me to appraise. 

Senator Curtis. But he didn't come right out 

Mr. Douglass. He said that one time, the next time he didn't tell 
me whose they were. He just said, "I have some more rings. I wish 
you would come upstairs and appraise me for it," and I went upstairs. 
I wasn't paid for this in any way. 

Miss Brougher did buy a few things from me, but nothing of value 
in my ring. I did have one of her rings to fix one time, the one that 
has been in the discussion so much today. 

Senator Curtis. Did you find Mr. Burke pretty talkative ? 

Mr. Douglass. He is very talkative all the time, to everybody, and 
I was no exception. 

Senator Curtis. You are referring to that as his general conduct 
around the hotel ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, with all the bellboys, the manager, and all the 
girls at the desk. He was very friendly. 

Senator Curtis. And if he had a little more to drink, he would talk 
a little more freely ? 

Mr. Douglass. I don't know. I suppose he was drinking all the 
time. He was on a nice vacation or something like that. 



14222 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. What rings did you repair ? 

Mr. Douglass. Pardon me ? 

Senator Curtis. You repaired a ring ? 

Mr. Douglass. I repaired the large ring that everyone has described 
as a star sapphire. It was not a star sapphire, it was a star ruby. 
It was not 25 carats, it must have been at least 100 carats. It didn't 
have 25 stones, it had at least 38 or 40 diamonds. 

Senator Curtis. Do you have an estimate as to its value ? 

Mr. Douglass. This was a Lindy star ruby, and it is made from 
the atomic bomb program. It is considered a genuine stone, but it is 
a manmade stone. It is worth about $20 a carat retail, plus the dia- 
monds and the platinum mounting. 

Senator Curtis. That would figure up to about what ? 

Mr. Douglass. I haven't really figured it on paper, but I could right 
quick, if you want me to. 

Senator Curtis. Just make a rough estimate for our record. 

Mr. Douglass. I would say the stone cost $2,000, the platinum 
mounting $500, and the diamonds $500. That is $700. I would figure 
the ring around $3,200. That belonged to Miss Brougher, and she 
told me it was her own and I knew it to be hers, because she wore 
it all the time. It was a beautiful ring. It looked much more ex- 
pensive that it was, however. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that retail or wholesale, the $3,200 ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is retail price. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was Burke doing down there ? 

Mr. Douglass. He told everybody that he was on vacation and that 
he had been temporarily taken off the payroll of the Teamsters Union, 
and that when he got in good, when his behavior was corrected, they 
would take him back and he would again be on the payroll. 

The Chairman. When his what was corrected ? 

Mr. Douglass. When his behavior was corrected. I assumed that 
to mean when he would stop drinking and would know what he was 
doing when he was carrying on business. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you about the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, he told me some things about it, as he told 
everybody. It was not any secret session I had with him in his room. 
He spoke every place, all over the lobby or in the coffee shop or any 
place. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he describe to you what they could do with 
Florida? 

Mr. Douglass. He didn't say what they could do with Florida, 
to me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Baker come down then? Barney Baker? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Baker came on several occasions to the Bal 
Harbour Hotel. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was Barney Baker? Who did you find out 
that he was? 

Mr. Douglass. He was supposed to be Miss Brougher's boy friend. 
Mr. Kennedy. What was he doing down there? 

Mr. Douglass. I don't know what he was doing down there, other 
than to come down to see Miss Brougher and bring her some money. 
Mr. Kennedy. Was he paying all of her bills ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14223 

Mr. Douglass. I assume he was paying all of them, and as far as 
I know through her he was paying all of the bills for her. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there always a considerable amount of money 
available ? 

Mr. Douglass. There seemed to be plenty around every place for 
everybody. 

Mr. Kennedy. How often would Baker come down there and see 
Miss Brougher ? 

Mr. Douglass. I am not sure how many times he came, but I be- 
lieve three times, including the last time that he came after she was 
taken away to jail. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there many other guests at the hotel ? 

Mr. Douglass. No. They were just about the only guests. There 
were about 8 people all together during the summer there, and they 
made up 5 or 6 of those, counting her children. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they pretty well run the hotel ? 

Mr. Douglass. They seemed to have the whole run of the hotel. 
Naturally, they were the only ones there. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the manager? Did they tell you any- 
thing about him ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, he was an old man, and he wasn't too really 
capable of running the hotel, and they didn't like the way he treated 
them. Mr. Burke said that he could have him fired, and he did, in 
a few days. 

Mr. Kennedy. He had the manager of the hotel fired ? 

Mr. Douglass. He had him fired, or he was fired. I don't know 
if he had the power to do it or not, but the man was fired. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say he was going to do to him before 
he got fired? 

Mr. Douglass. In what way? 

Mr. Kennedy. To his automobile. 

Mr. Douglass. He told me that by pouring something into the 
crankcase 

Mr. Kennedy. Shellac? 

Mr. Douglass. Shellac, I believe it was — that he could crack the 
block on it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he was going to do that to the car of 
the manager ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is what he said he was going to do. Pretty 
soon I heard the car would not go, and it was backfiring and every- 
thing, the poor old man. It was an old, beat-up car. It was about 
to fall down anyway. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there any guns around there ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes ; plenty of them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did they keep their guns? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, Mr. Baker has already testified where he 
kept them, and that is where he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you mean Mr. Burke ? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Burke. 

Mr. Kennedy. He kept them in his room ? 

Mr. Douglass. He kept them in his room. He carried them 
through the lobby. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he walk through the lobby carrying these guns? 



14224 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Douglass. Sure. There was not any secret about it or any- 
thing. It was just out in the open. 

The Chairman. Do you know of any target practice he engaged 
in? 

Mr. Douglass. I don't know where the targets could be. 

Senator Mundt. What kind of guns were they? Revolvers, ma- 
chineguns, shotguns ? 

Mr. Douglass. I am not familiar with guns, but they were all 
types. 

Senator Mundt. You said you saw him carrying them through 
the lobby. If they were pistols, he would probably put them in his 
pocket. 

Mr. Douglass. The only pistols I saw were in his room. He had 
guns upstairs, though, in leather cases, and that is the way he carried 
them through the lobby, in cowhide leather cases you would carry 
guns in. 

Senator Mundt. Would they be shotguns, sawed-off shotguns ? 

Mr. Douglass. They looked like that type, a rifle, but I don't 
know. 

Senator Mundt. With a long barrel? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Senator Mundt. Did he have any machineguns? 

Mr. Douglass. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then did they move out of the Bal Harbour Hotel ? 

Mr. Douglass. They moved into my house. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was that ? 

Mr. Douglass. Mrs. Brougher leased my house to live in for the 
remainder of the time before she was taken away to jail. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the name of your house ? 

Mr. Douglass. Lost Acre. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were the financial arrangements on that? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, the house was to be rented for $300 a month, 
and Miss Brougher, or Mr. Baker, who was to pay for the house, was 
to pay all the expenses of the house. That included the yardman, the 
pool man, and any water utility bills. They paid me $1,000 in ad- 
vance and were to pay $250 each month until the balance of the $3,600 
was paid. I did this to protect myself so that when the season came, 
I would have the money before it was over. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was the $1,000 paid in advance? 

Mr. Douglass. That was paid in advance. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that by check or cash ? 

Mr. Douglass. By cash, $100 bills. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you receive all of your money in cash? 

Mr. Douglass. All of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. All in $100 bills? 

Mr. Douglass. Always in $100 bills. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where were they getting all this money ? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Baker would bring it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know where he was getting all the money? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, it was just common knowledge that the Team- 
sters Union was financing the whole thing. I mean that is what they 
all said. Even in the hotel, the Teamsters paid the bills. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is what we understand, but I wanted to find 
out. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14225 

Mr. Douglass. I don't know that to be a fact. I mean it is just 
hearsay. 

Mr. Kennedy. They all had money continuously, the three of them, 
Burke, Baker, and Brougher? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, near the end, Miss Brougher did not have any 
money. I don't know what happened. They must have cut her 
money off. I went for the rent one day and she did not have it, She 
said, "I have to wait for Mr. Burke to bring the money to me." 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Baker or Burke? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Baker. I am sure she told me the truth. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money do you think they were spending 
down there during this period of time, the three of them ? 

Mr. Douglass. I have no idea. I just know what the hotel bill was, 
which was brought out in the trial today, that the manager and the 
bellhops and everybody knew what the hotel bill was for only Mr. 
Burke. Nobody knew what Miss Brougher was paying. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any question about now he was going 
to get the bill paid ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes. He told everybody that when he got in good 
standing with the union, they would pay the bill, and they did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did he talk about in the union that he was 
close to ? 

Mr. Douglass. He did not talk about anybody to me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he mention anybody's name particularly ? 

Mr. Douglass. No ; but he showed me the letter when it came pay- 
ing his last bill, but not being interested in who the union was or the 
names on the letters I did not read it. But he put it right in my face, 
and I assume that is the letter that you showed today. I don't know. 
I did not examine it. It is like somebody shows you something and 
you look at it and they take it right back. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he was close to any particular person in 
the union ? 

Mr. Douglass. No, not to me he did not, other than Mr. Baker. 
That was obvious, that he was close to him, because he was there 
with him. 

The Chairman. Will you identify this lease? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

The Chairman. The lease testified to by the previous witness may 
be made exhibit 72 with the addenda. 

(The lease referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 72," for reference 
and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. Do you identify that lease ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, sir. That is the lease that was made out by me 
and signed by Miss Brougher. She signed Mr. Baker's name to it, 

The Chairman. She signed Mr. Baker's name? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right, witnessed by her ex-husband, Joe 
Sylvestri. 

The Chairman. Her ex-husband ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is what they told me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he staying there with them ? 

Mr. Douglass. He was a guest there. I don't know whether he 
stayed there or not, They told me that Mr. Sylvestri had a room 
across the street, but every time that I would have occasion to go 
there, he would be there. 



14226 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 73. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 73," for ref- 
erence, and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Burke tell you during these periods of 
times how he organized ? 

Mr. Douglass. He told me how powerful the union was in the 
coffeeshop one day, and he cited two experiences, one of which you 
already brought out in the case of Miss Brougher, about cutting off 
the electricity at the Sonja Henie ice show so she would have no ice 
or lights to skate by. The second thing he told me about was the 
collapsing of the bleachers. I don't know whether it was the side- 
show — I can't remember this — or the Ringling Bros. Circus, some- 
thing similar to that. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened ? 

Mr. Douglass. And a lot of people were hurt, and I believe some 
people were killed, but I don't know this to be a fact. That is what 
he told me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that people were killed ? 

Mr. Douglass. That people were killed. 

Mr. Kennedy. That they pulled the bleachers down ? 

Mr. Douglass. They puiled the bleachers down. 

The Chairman. Which one was it that told you that ? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Burke. But he told that to everybody, so it 
was not any secret. 

Mr. Kennedy. When Ruth Brougher went to prison, did Baker 
tell you anything about the fact that you had been nice to her ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes. He called me to the house the day after she 
had been taken away. He wanted to thank me for being so nice to 
her. He asked me what kind of a car I was driving. At the time 
I had a Chevrolet truck, and I had the truck at the house that day. 
He said, "It looks like an old model. I will send you a new Chev- 
rolet," I am still waiting for it. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was for being nice to Ruth Brougher? 

Mr. Douglass. That is what he said. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he angry with George Everett ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes; he seemed to be angry at him, but I don't 
know if he really was angry at him or not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is George Everett ? 

Mr. Douglass. That was Miss Brougher's lawyer. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had they given Mr. George Everett any money? 

Mr. Douglass. They claimed 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is "they" ? 

Mr. Douglass. Miss Brougher, Mr. Baker, and Mr. Sylvestri all 
claimed that they had given him $9,000 for doing nothing. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was he supposed to do with the $9,000? 

Mr. Douglass. He was supposed to get her off from going to 
prison. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he supposed to pay this money to someone? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, he must have been going to pay it to someone 
or keep it himself ; I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. I am just asking about what they said to you about 
it. 

Mr. Douglass. Yes. He was supposed to get her off. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14227 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any discussion about giving it to a 
judge or giving it to someone ; the $9,000 ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, the way I would interpret what they said, 
it was to get — to fix it so that she would not have to go to prison. 

Mr. Kennedy. Evidently it was not successful, because she went 
to prison. 

Mr. Douglass. Well, she was rather surprised when she was called 
suddenly and had to go. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did Baker say about the fact that Everett was 
unsuccessful ? 

Mr. Douglass. He said he would kill him for it. 

Mr. Kennedy. For being unsuccessful ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. He told you that ? 

Mr. Douglass. He told me that. 

Senator Mundt. Who is Mr. Sylvestri ? That is a new name to me. 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Sylvestri is, as I understand it, an ex- jockey 
who was married to Miss Brougher at one time and the father of 1 or 
2 of her children. I am not sure about it, but I know he was an ex- 
husband. 

Senator Mundt. Mrs. Sylvestri, then, married a man by the name 
of Brougher after that. 

Mr. Douglass. I don't know that to be true. 

Senator Mundt. Where does the name "Miss Brougher" come from ? 

Mr. Douglass. I have no idea. 

Mr. Kennedy. She has been married several times. Mr. Sylvestri 
is known as Three-Finger Joe Sylvestri, and is now in prison. 

Senator Mundt. When you knew Miss Brougher, was Mr. Syl- 
vestri her most recent husband ? 

Mr. Douglass. As far as I know, he was. 

Senator Mundt. I could not quite understand. It seems like a 
peculiar arrangement. You rented the house. Boy Friend Baker 
rents a house for the mistress and the ex-husband shares the house 
with them. It seems like a curious arrangement. 

Mr. Douglass. It seems pretty mixed up to me, too. 

Senator Mundt. But that is the way it was ? 

Mr. Douglass. Unless he could have been there to protect her. I 
don't know. I guess that is what he was there for. 

Senator Mundt. To protect her against Baker ? 

Mr. Douglass. I don't know who. She was, I think, pretty 
frightened. 

Senator Mundt. What was she frightened about ? 

Mr. Douglass. I guess she was frightened somebody was going to 
hurt her, damage her, or try to kill her; I don't know. She nailed all 
the windows and doors shut in the house, and I had a terrible time get- 
ting these heavy spikes out of there. 

Senator Mundt. That was not in the lease, was it ? 

Mr. Douglass. No; it was not. She did not do any damage to 
the house other than that, though. She took very good care of the 
house ; I will say that. 

Senator Mundt. Have you interviewed the gardener and the swim- 
ming pool man? They must have been there all the time. 

Mr. Kennedy. About what ? 



14228 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Mundt. About Baker's activities. 

Mr. Kennedy. I think we have that pretty well. 

Senator Mundt. You say there were about three times that he came 
there ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well of course, I was not there all the time. They 
were in the house quite a while. I don't know how many times he 
came, but I think only three times, to my knowledge. 

Senator Mundt. When he would come, did he stay a matter of hours 
or a day or a week ? 

Mr. Douglass. Just a short time. Maybe a day or 2 days at the 
longest. 

(Senator McClellan left the room.) 

Mr. Kennedy. How did he describe what he was going to do with 
Mr. Everett other than kill him ? Did he use any expression ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, he used a phrase, which he said was an Italian 

fvhrase, to me. I can't remember it exactly but it went something 
ike this : Like wine in a bottle when one runs dry, his blood will be 
the same way, or something like that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You will have to say that again. 

Mr. Douglass. Well, I don't remember exactly, because I can't 
remember it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it anything about 24 hours ? 

Mr. Douglass. He said in 24 hours, like wine runs dry in a bottle, 
his blood will be the same way. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Ives. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Coming back to this hotel, where you have your 
jewelry store, what is the name of the hotel ? 

Mr. Douglass. That is the Bal Harbor Hotel. 

Senator Curtis. Where is it located — what street ? 

Mr. Douglass. It is 101st Street and Collins Avenue, Bal Harbor, 
Fla. 

Senator Curtis. Who owns it ? 

Mr. Douglass. It is owned by several people, as far as I know. I 
don't know really who does own it. I know Mr. McKay is one of the 
stockholders. 

Senator Curtis. Who is Mr. McKay ? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Frank McKay. He is a newspaperman, I think, 
from Detroit. I am not sure where he is from. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know who any of the other owners are ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, it was debatable who they were, Mr. Hitchy 
is an owner. 

Senator Curtis. Who is he? 

Mr. Douglass. A Ford dealer from some place in Michigan, I be- 
lieve. Mr. Clark was made an owner because he was not paid his 
money. 

Senator Curtis. What was Mr. Clark ? 

Mr. Douglass. He was the builder of the hotel. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know his first name ? 

Mr. Douglass. He is dead. His name is Chauncey Clark. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know any of the other owners ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, there were quite a few people that claimed they 
owned little sections of it. I don't know whether they bought them 
out or how it was. I don't know the details of it. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14229 

Senator Curtis. Where were those people from ? 
Mr. Douglass. I don't know. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know if they were Floridians or somebody 
from Detroit? 
Mr. Douglass. I don't know that. 
Senator Curtis. A manager got fired while you were there ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes, he did. 

Senator Curtis. What was his name ? 

Mr. Douglass. I can't think of his name right now. 
Senator Curtis. Do you know who fired him ? 

Mr. Douglass. I assume Mr. McKay fired him. I don't know who 
fired him. 

Senator Curtis. And which one of these men was it that became 
angry with him and said he was going to have him fired ? 

Mr. Douglass. Mr. Burke said he could have him fired. I don't 
know whether he had him fired or not. He was sort of an old man. 
He was rather senile. He was not really a good manager. 

Senator Curtis. Were there any of these owners or individuals 
thought to be owners that were personal friends of Mr. Burke and Mr. 
Baker? 

Mr. Douglass. I really don't know that. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Burke or Miss Brougher introduce you to 
a man at the house who suggested you go into some business ? 

Mr. Douglass. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was that ? Who introduced you ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, they were all there one clay, and this man was 
there. I don't remember, I cannot remember his name at the present 
time. I have heard it. I think I would know it. He was there with 
his wife — I guess it was his wife — and several days later he came to me 
and tried to get me to open a bookie with him. He said he was com- 
pletely protected by the law enforcement and politics on Miami Beach, 
and if I would put up $3,000 into his bookie, that he would see that at 
the end of 1 week I would have the $3,000 back and probably another 
$3,000 to go with it, and if I did not trust him, that I could sit right 
there and listen to all the phone calls and have a man there with me to 
collect the money. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was somebody you met out at this house ? 

Mr. Douglass. This is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. That Burke and Miss Brougher introduced you to? 

Mr. Douglass. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was your impression about all of this? Did 
you understand that this was a typical union operation ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, I am not familiar with the unions, so I did 
not understand too much about it. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you think these people were doing? 

Mr. Douglass. How do you mean, what do I think ? Can you phrase 
that question a little better ? 

Mr. Kennedy. What was their operation ? What did you think of 
their operation ? 

Mr. Douglass. Well, I thought from what Mr. Burke told me that 
they could be very dangerous if people did not cooperate with them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he tell you about that ? 



14230 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Douglass. Just about the two things that I have already re- 
lated, about the circus and the Sonja Heine show. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Baker state anything to you about what 
would happen to people that opposed them, or about getting even 
with those people ? 

Mr. Douglass. I don't remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't remember anything about the fact that 
they could get even with them ? 

Mr. Douglass. I think there was something about that, but I don't 
remember, except for about that lawyer that they had. 

Mr. Kennedy. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions ? 

If not, thank you very much. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Miss B rougher. 

TESTIMONY OF RUTH ANN BROUGHER 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Miss Brougher, we have had some discussion this 
afternoon about some jewelry, some jewelry that was seen in your 
possession by Mr. Bowers. Did you have some of this jewelry in your 
possession ? 

Miss Brougher. I had some jewelry ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you obtain that jewelry ? 

Miss Brougher. Ben Graber, Miami, Fla. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was he ? 

Miss Brougher. He is in the jewelry business and owns two dress 
shops there, Graber, Inc. He is located in the Biscayne Shopping 
Center. 

Mr. Kennedy. Does he actually have a jewelry shop ? 

Miss Brougher. He has always dealt in jewelry since I have known 
him. 

Mr. Kennedy. But he does not have a jewelry shop, does he ? 

Miss Brougher. Not at the present, I don't believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he at that time ? 

Miss Brougher. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. He gave you jewelry to sell ; is that right ? 

Miss Brougher. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know where he got the jewelry from ? 

Miss Brougher. He bought it from a diamond market, the best of 
my knowledge, in Miami, and it was always tagged and he always had 
bills of sale for it or consignment slips for it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was selling the jewelry ? 

Miss Brougher. He gave he a few pieces to sell at times. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Baker or Burke have anything to do with this? 

Miss Brougher. Baker went to Mr. Graber's house one night and 
got some to take to New York. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was going to sell jewelry in New York ? 

Miss Brougher. They had the conversation privately. I really 
don't know. You can confirm all those facts by Mr. Graber. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that he was trying to sell jewelry 
as well, that Baker was ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14231 

Miss Brougher. The only thing I understood was, for Mr. Graber, 
that I was responsible for it. He knew me and he did not know the 
union people. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he turn the jewelry over to you and you turned 
it over to him ? 

Miss Brougher. I turned it over to Mr. Baker. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was Mr. Burke involved in this ? 

Miss Brougher. I don't know whether Mr. Burke has had some of 
Graber's jewelry in his possession. I don't know if it is the same. I 
don't believe Mr. Burke or Mr. Baker had any other kind of jewelry. I 
think that it was legitimate jewelry. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, as far as the 

Miss Brougher. The only jewelry that I ever had in my possession 
was legitimate jewelry. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you dealt with Baker but you did not deal with 
Burke. 

Did you turn over some of this jewelry to Baker ? 

Miss Brougher. Baker and Mr. Graber talked together at Mr. Gra- 
ber's home. I drove them out there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever turn over any of the jewelry that you 
had to Mr. Baker to sell ? 

Miss Brougher. Yes, some of it would be in Mr. Baker's possession. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would he go to New York to sell that jewelry ? 

Miss Brougher. He was m New York, but I took the jewelry back. 
He did not make the transaction. I don't know what he had in mind. 
I did not ask him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he take any jewelry to New York ? 

Miss Brougher. I don't remember whether he took the jewelry or 
I took it, but I know I brought it back to Mr. Graber. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you trying to sell it in New York ? 

Miss Brougher. I don't know what he was going to do with it. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about you, when you took your jewelry up ? 

Were you trying to sell it up there ? 

Miss Brougher. No, I did not show it to anyone. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who brought the jewelry up to New York; you said 
you brought it back. Did you bring some jewelry back from New 
York? 

Miss Brougher. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. You picked up jewelry there ? 

Miss Brougher. I flew up there, but* I don't remember if I flew up 
with Mr. Baker or alone. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you get the jewelry from up there? 

Miss Brougher. If Barney and I did not take it up together, I 
must have took it up. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then were you trying to sell it up there ? 

Miss Brougher. I don't know what he had in mind. I think that 
he had a sale of jewelry in mind, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who is he? 

Miss Brougher. Mr. Baker. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you and Baker brought some jewelry up there, 
and you brought it back ? 



14232 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Miss Brougher. I brought it back and returned it to Mr. Graber. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you buy any jewelry up there in New York ? 

Miss Brougher. No, I did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you try to sell the jewelry to? 

Miss Brougher. I did not try to sell the jewelry to anybody. Mr. 
Baker had a conversation with Mr. Graber as to who he was going to 
show it to, and I did not overhear the conversation. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Baker send you to Paul Dorfman with some 
jewelry ? 

Miss Brougher. I went to see Paul Dorfman with some jewelry and 
showed him some, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where had you gotten that jewelry ? 

Miss Brougher. Mr. Graber. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Baker arrange for that ? 

Miss Brougher. Yes, it was arranged though Baker or Mr. Burke, 
either one. I don't remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was explained to yon that Paul Dorfman could get 
rid of the jewelry ? 

Miss Brougher. I think that he buys jewelry on the side, or is in 
that business or interested or something. 

Mr. Kennedy. And he was supposed to be a union official at that 
time ? 

Miss Brougher. I think so. I think he had something to do with 
the insurance or welfare end of it. I don't remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. I have just one other thing. 

Did you see Mr. Burke with any of these guns ? 

Miss Brougher. Mr. Burke had guns in his room ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever see him take a gun out and throw it 
away ? 

Miss Brougher. Well, I drove with him in the car one night and 
he threw a gun in the bay, next to the Blue Bay Motel. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know why he threw the gun into the bay? 

Miss Brougher. I imagine he just didn't like it. 

Senator Goldwater. Was it a pistol or a rifle ? 

Miss Brougher. A rifle. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. You heard Mr. Bowers testify, didn't you? 

Miss Brougher. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Bowers was the landlord of one of the houses? 

Miss Brougher. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Will you tell us about the occasion when you 
showed him the jewels, brought them out in a small box. Was it 
substantially as he reported it ? 

Miss Brougher. Well, not quite so many gems ; no. They were Mr. 
Graber's jewelry, and Barney wanted — I think that Barney wanted 
to see them. Then I think that was near the time that the Chicago 
trip was made. 

Senator Curtis. But you did show him some jewels in a box? 

Miss Brougher. Yes, sir, because we were looking at his diamonds 
and we were comparing prices and color. 

Senator Curtis. How many do you think were in the box? 

Miss Brougher. Well, Mr. Graber would have an itemized list of 
what he let us have. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14233 

Senator Curtis. Were those new rings ? 

Miss Brougher. No. Mr. Graber bought up rings at a price and 
at bargains and only when he would see an extremely good buy. He 
would tie his money up in it and then get rid of it at a profit, and if 
you sold it for him, you would split the profit with him. 

Senator Curtis. Sort of a pawnshop arrangement £ 

Miss Brougher. Well, I never did get that personal with the man. 
I have known him for years, but I didn't ask him how he got his 
jewelry. 

Senator Curtis. Did the rings have tags on them ? 

Miss Brougher. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. What was on the tags ? 

Miss Brougher. The prices. 

Senator Curtis. That was the price that you would ask % 

Miss Brougher. And also always he would give you a slip, listing 
what he had given you and the prices, and also, I guess, that probably 
he might have, in case you were going out of town, might take a 
floater insurance policy. 

I don't know how he handled that sort of thing. But I know that he 
kept them listed, and they were returned. 

Senator Curtis. The rings that you showed Mr. Bowers, did they 
appear to be — I am speaking not of the jewels but of the bands — did 
they appear to be new or nearly new, or did they show wear ? 

Miss Brougher. Some were new, and some had been stones that had 
been remounted in new platimum mountings and that sort of thing. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know anything about these jewels that Mr. 
Burke showed to Mr. Douglass ? 

Miss Brougher. No. I can't imagine Mr. Burke showing any kind 
of jewels to Mr. Douglass, other than Mr. Graber 's. They wouldn't 
be anything that I would know anything about. 

Senator Curtis. What is Mr. Graber's first name ? 

Miss Brougher. Ben Graber, Sr. 

Senator Curtis. Where does he live ? 

Miss Brougher. Well, they built a new home after I was incar- 
cerated, and I would tell you where it is. 

Senator Curtis. He lives in Miami or in Miami Beach ? 

Miss Brougher. It is in Miami. 

Senator Curtis. Where is his place of business ? 

Miss Brougher. At the Biscayne Shopping Center, at 79th Street 
and Biscayne. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever turn over some jewels to Burke ? 

Miss Brougher. Never 

Senator Curtis. Either of your own or Mr. Graber's ? 

Miss Brougher. Mr. Burke knows Mr. Graber, and they have had 
a diamond conversation together. I mean, he has seen Mr. Graber's 
diamonds. How long he has had them in his possession, I do not know. 

Senator Curtis. Did you pay Mr. Graber when you would get the 
jewels or after you would sell them ? 

Miss Brougher. Only after they were sold. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever turn any money over to Mr. Graber 
for Mr. Burke, for jewels lie had sold ? 

Miss Brougher. No; Mr. Burke, nor Barney Baker, to my knowl- 
edge, have never bought anything from Mr. Graber. 

21243 — 59 — pt. 38 7 



14234 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I bought Mr. Baker a diamond watch from Mr. Graber, with Mr. 
Baker's money. 

Senator Curtis. How much was the one you just described that 
you bought? 

Miss Brougher. The watch ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Miss Brougher. I don't know how much it was worth retail, be- 
cause Ben Graber gave it to me for a very good buy. 

Senator Curtis. What did you pay for it ? 

Miss Brougher. I think $250 or $300. It was not too much. I think 
the watch sold for around $500, maybe, I don't know the prices of 
watches. It was just a plain man's watch with diamond numerals. 

Senator Curtis. These jewels that went up to New York, were 
they Mr. Graber's? 

Miss Brougher. The ones I took there were Mr. Graber's. The 
only jewels I know about at all belonged to Mr. Graber. 

Senator Curtis. Where did this big ring that has been described 
as a very large ruby — was that yours ? 

Miss Brougher. That was mine. 

Senator Curtis. Where did you get it? 

Miss Brougher. That was bought in New York. 

Senator Curtis. By whom? 

Miss Brougher. By myself. 

Senator Curtis. You bought it? 

Do you remember where? 

Miss Brougher. No. I have a strongbox in Miami that has the 
receipts for the insurance and all that sort of thing on the ring. 

Senator Curtis. What did you have it insured as? 

Miss Brougher. The ring was insured, I believe, for $5,500, and the 
diamond ring was insured for around $5,000. 

Yor. see, those policies were naturally all dropped when I went in. 

Senator Curtis. Do you remember what year you bought this big 
ruby ring ? 

Miss Brougher. It must have been in — it was during the war, a 
long time ago. The mounting was given to me as a present by Louis 
Ronco, who has the Americana Hotel in Miami Beach, and the mount- 
ing he paid $1,500 for. 

Senator Curtis. What is his name? 

Miss Brougher. Louis Ronco. 

Senator Curtis. He gave you the mounting ? 

Miss Brougher. He gave me. It Avas a diamond horseshoe, and 
he gave it to me for a present. It was valued at $1,500, just the 
mounting alone. 

Senator Curtis. He still lives down there ? 

Miss Brougher. Well, the Americana — the hotel is only about a 
year only. He formerly was at the Traymore Hotel in Atlantic City. 

Senator Curtis. But the gentleman still lives there, to your knowl- 
edge? 

Miss Brougher. He works there. 

Senator Curtis. He works there? 

Miss Brougher. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14235 

Mr. Kennedy. The jewelry that you turned over to Barney Baker, 
Baker testified that it was done with pawn tickets. Did you actually 
turn the jewelry over to him, or did you give him a pawn ticket or 
what ? 

Miss Brougher. I couldn't have given the gentleman a pawn ticket 
because 1 was in jail. If the jewelry was pawned, it would have had 
to be by somebody else. You can check that by the signature on the 
ticket. 

Mr. Kennedy. So when he says all you did was turn over to him 
the pawn tickets, his testimony is not correct ? 

Miss Brougher. It is not correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. You turned the jewels over to him? 

Miss Brougher. I was in jail and I couldn't have given him pawn 
tickets. 

The Chairman. All right. Thank you. The committee will stand 
in recess until 10 : 30 next Tuesday morning. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 10 p. m. the hearing recessed, to reconvene at 
10 : 30 a. m. August 26, 1958, with the following members present : 
Senators McClellan, Ives, Mundt, Goldwater, and Curtis.) 



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



TUESDAY, AUGUST 26, 1958 

United States Senate, 
Select Committee on Improper Activities 

In the Labor or Management Field, 

Washington. D. C. 

The select committee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to Senate 
Resolution 221, agreed to January 29, 1958, in the caucus room, 
Senate Office Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of 
the select committee) presiding. 

Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Sena- 
tor Carl T. Curtis, Republican, Nebraska ; 

x\lso present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; Jerome S. Adler- 
man, assistant chief counsel; Paul Tierney, assistant counsel; 
John J. McGovern, assistant counsel; Carmine S. Bellino, account- 
ant: Pierre E. Salinger, investigator; Leo C. Nulty, investigator; 
James P. Kelly, investigator; Walter J. Sheridan, investigator; 
James Mundie, investigator; John Flanagan, investigator, GAO; 
Alfred Vittarelli, investigator, GAO; Ruth Young Watt, chief 
clerk. 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

( Members of the committee present at the convening of the session 
were : Senators McClellan and Curtis. ) 

The Chairman. We resume the hearings that we were involved in 
last week. So Mr. Kennedy, you may call the witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Lawrence J. Camie, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence, given 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Camie. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE J. CAMIE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, TED A. BOLINGER 

The Chairman. State your name, and your place of residence or 
occupation, please. 

Mr. Camie. Lawrence J. Camie, 6 Blayton Lane, St. Louis 17, Mo. 
President City and County Contract Service, Inc. 

The Chairman. You have counsel present? 

Mr. Camie. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Counsel, please identify yourself. 

Mr. Bolinger. Ted A. Bolinger, St. Louis, Mo., 408 Olive Street, 
St. Louis, Mo. 

14237 



14238 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. You may proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of business are you in at the present time ? 

Mr. Camie. Manpower and rental trucks, contract trucks, for city 
delivery purposes. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have two different kinds of businesses, one in 
the real estate, and one with trucking ? 

Mr. Camie. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. I am in real estate develop- 
ment, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And also a trucking company % 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And in the trucking company, you have approxi- 
mately how many employees? 

Mr. Camie. Fourteen employees. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you have contract with two different Teamster 
locals, is that right ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. What Teamster locals are they ? 

Mr. Camie. There are 13 members in local 610, and there is one 
member in 682. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Camie, you were a Teamster official for a 
long period of time ? 

Mr. Camie. Seventeen years. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you formed local 688 of the Teamsters, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Camie. St. Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, local 688 is the local that is now headed by 
Harold Gibbons, is that right ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the jurisdiction? When you had 688, what 
was its jurisdiction? 

Mr. Camie. Warehousing. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was during the 1940's, is that correct ? 

Mr. Camie. 1941. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that when you formed it % 

Mr. Camie. October of 1941. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had been a union official prior to that time ? 

Mr. Camie. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. In another Teamster local? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. In the St. Louis area ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, when did you retire from the Teamsters Union 
as an official ? 

Mr. Camie. About January 24 or 26, 1949. 

Mr. Kennedy. At that time, there was a merger of your local with 
a local union of the CIO, which was headed by Mr. Harold J. Gibbons, 
is that right? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Gibbons' union? 

Mr. Camte. United Distribution Workers. 

Mr. Kennedy. CIO? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14239 

Mr. Camie. Yes, sir, and I don't know the number of it, and I 
never did know the number of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Approximately how many people did he have in his 
local? 

Mr. Camie. I don't know, I guess he had five or six thousand, or 
seven thousand, and I don't know exactly how many he had. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many did you have in your local ? 

Mr. Camie. About 2,500. 

Mr. Kennedy. You told me yesterday he had about 4,500. 

Mr. Camie. Well, as I say, Mr. Kennedy, approximately 4,500, I 
didn't count them. 

Mr. Kennedy. He had about twice as many as you did? 

Mr. Camie. I think they did ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you say there was a merger, and could you 
tell us whether you had some conversations with Mr. Harold Gib- 
bons prior to the merger, and how that came about ? 

Mr. Camie. On or about January 17, 1949, I attended a Team- 
sters' conference of the warehouse division in Chicago, 111. Inter- 
national Executive Vice President Dave Beck asked me to meet him 
in a room in the hotel that we were meeting in that afternoon. I 
went to that room and I knocked on the door, and a voice said, "come 
in," and Mr. Gibbons was sitting in that room. 

The Chairman. Had you known him before then? 

Mr. Camie. I had known Mr. Gibbons prior to that time, Mr. 
Chairman ; yes, sir. 

About 30 minutes later on that same date, Mr. Dave Beck came 
into the room and said that Mr. Gibbons was applying to the Inter- 
national Teamsters for a charter for his warehouse union. I believe 
at that time they were not affiliated with the CIO any longer. 

Mr. Beck said', "I want to consult with you as we have one charter 
now for a warehouse union, and what do you think about it?" I 
said to Mr. Beck I thought two charters would be confusing for the 
same type of work which would be overlapping and more confusion, 
and the proper thing to do was to take Mr. Gibbons' union and merge 
it into 688 and have one union. Mr. Beck said, "Well, why don't you 
fellows think it over." I said, "Fine, it is a good idea, but I still 
say that one union was best for both of the organizations." 

Mr. (ribbons' union had an LHI plan, which is known as Labor 
Health Institute provided medical aid and doctor's service for its 
members. I felt in the merger of Mr. Gibbons' union and the union 
that I represented, that the members would benefit by a merger, and 
we merged the unions. 

Mr. Kennedy. You went back and worked out the details with 
Mr. Gibbons? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the two unions were merged ? 

Mr. Camie. The two unions were merged, and Mr. Gibbons had a 
better plan, and at that time the Teamsters didn't have any welfare 
plan or any pension plan, and Mr. Gibbons had already had the ma- 
chinery in motion with Labor Health Institute, and X-ray machines, 
and everything that goes in for the health of the members. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then Mr. Gibbons became the new head of the local ? 



14240 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Gibbons became president, I believe, of local 688, 
on the resignation of the former members of the executive board of 
local 688. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you were one of those who resigned ? 

Mr. Camie. I had an understanding that any board member or 
any officer who wanted to stay was welcome to stay. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you resigned ? 

Mr. Camie. I am coming to that, Mr. Kennedy. Anyone that 
wanted to resign would be paid severance pay for the duration of his 
term of office. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many years did you have to go ? 

Mr. Camie. About 3 years and 4 months, I believe, I think that was 
about right. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you elected to resign ? 

Mr. Camie. Sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. You resigned then ? 

Mr. Camie. I resigned with severance pay. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you receive ? 

Mr. Camee. I received a total amount of $36,000, which was spread 
out over a period of 3 years for the duration of my term of $12,000 pay 
by Mercantile Trust Co. in St. Louis, on February 1, 1949, and 
$12,000 was paid February 1, 1950, and the last $12,000 was February 
1, 1951, which made a total of $36,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. Actually the union paid out the $36,000 immediately 
in 1949, into an escrow account, did they not ? 

Mr. Camee. The union placed the money with the Mercantile Com- 
merce Trust Co. for $36,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. And for tax purposes, you took it over a period of 
3 years, is that right ? 

Mr. Camie. Well, I don't know if you would call it for tax pur- 
poses. The Internal Revenue came back and commanded the money 
be paid all in 1 year instead of 3 years. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the purpose of getting it over the period of 
3 years ? 

Mr. Camee. Well. I don't know. If I would have stayed on, I would 
have got it that way, and I didn't see anything wrong with spreading it 
out. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was this ever put up to the membership as to whether 
they wanted to pay you $36,000 ? 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Kennedy, the executive board of local 688 which 
I headed at that time was called in to a meeting and the steward's coun- 
cil of the CIO, United Distribution Workers, was also called in to a 
meeting, and the 2 bodies of the 2 organizations went along with 
the merger. 

Mr. Kennedy. You didn't answer my question. 

Mr. Camie. Pardon me. Let me have it again, please ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I asked vou if the membership of the union approved 
of your receiving the $36,000 ? 

Mr. Camee. There was no meeting called of the membership of the 
union, Mr. Kennedy, and it was just the executive board of the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was the membership ever informed that you were re- 
ceiving this money ? 

Mr. Camie. It was in the paper, and I am sure they were informed. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14241 

Mr. Kennedy. Were they ever informed at a meeting, and were they 
ever told that this $36,000 was being paid to you ? 

Mr. Camie. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Kennedy. You say it was in the papers; when was it in the 
papers ? 

Mr. Camie. Whatever the date of that paper is in front of you, Mr. 
Kennedy, that is the edition of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat. 

Mr. Kennedy. You mean about the merger ? 

Mr. Camie. The date of that paper is what date ? 

Mr. Kennedy. January 27, 1949. 

Mr. Camie. Well, the merger was before that date, because the pa- 
pers didn't get the news until after the merger, but I would say the 
merger was probably around the 24th or the 25th of January 1949, 
about that time, to my recollection. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the papers know, or is there anything in here 
about the fact that you were receiving $36,000 ? 

Mr. Camie. I don't know if there is. 

Mr. Kennedy. I don't think that the membership knew from the pa- 
pers, from reading the papers, that you were receiving this money. 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Kennedy, it was no secret that I received the money, 
because the Mercantile Commerce Trust Co., was the escrow agent, 
and there was no secret deal, and it was done legitimately. 

Mr. Kennedy. I asked you if it had been taken up with the mem- 
bership, and evidently it had not been taken up with the membership, 
from your answer. Then you mentioned about the fact that this all 
appeared in the papers, and there is nothing in this paper that indi- 
cates that you got the $36,000. I don't question the fact that these 
two unions merged, it was known to the membership, and I just 
questioned whether anybody ever knew that you got the $36,000. 

Mr. Camie. The executive board members knew, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. The executive board members of your union were 
the ones who were to gain, and they were the ones to either get this 
sum of money or stay on with the union, is that correct ? 

Mr. Camie. They had a choice, if they wanted to. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were voting, and when you say they knew 
about it, they were voting on a matter in which they had a personal 
interest, isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Camie. They were all elected at the same time I was elected. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you answer the question, Mr. Camie? 

Mr. Camie. I am trying to, Mr. Kennedy, but there is more to it 
to bring it up to date, and that is what I am trying to explain. 

Mr. Kennedy. My point to you, or my question was that these 
people, the members of the executive board were voting on a matter 
in which they themselves had a personal financial interest. 

Mr. Camie. Whether their interest was financial or not, I am not 
in a position to answer that, but I can say this: They were told in 
a meeting that they had a choice to stay on or resign and accept 
severance pay, and they chose to accept their severance pay. 

The Chairman. At this point, may I ask you to identify this paper 
so that we can make it an exhibit for reference. Do you recognize 
that as a copy of the paper carrying the story of the merger? 

Mr. Camie. This was the first paper, Mr. Chairman, that carried 
the story, I believe, of the merger. 



14242 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 74 for reference. 

(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 74" for reference, 
and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. I hand you here what purports to be a photo- 
static copy of the check dated January 26, 1949, in the amount of 
$36,360 a cashier's check, I guess, on the Federal Reserve Bank of 
St. Louis, Plaza Bank of St. Louis, made payable to the Commerce 
Bank & Trust Co. I will ask you to examine this check and see if 
you can identify it. 

(Document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Chairman, this is Mercantile-Commerce Trust 
Co., $36,360. 

The Chairman. Is that the check that covered the money put in 
escrow for you to draw your $36,360 ? 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Chairman, $36,360 was deposited with the Mer- 
cantile-Commerce Bank & Trust Co., and $360 which is 1 percent 
of the amount was paid to the escrow agent, and the $36,000 was 
paid to the escrow agent to be paid to me over a period of 3 years. 

The Chairman. They paid the escrow agent 1 percent or $360 ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

The Chairman. And you got the $36,000 ? 

Mr. Camie. Over a period of 3 years. 

The Chairman. That check represents the transactions, does it? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

The Chairman. It will be made exhibit No. 75. 

(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 75"' for reference, 
and will be found in the appendix on p. 14538.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you under contract with the union at that 
time? 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Kennedy, I had no contract that was written. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was no legal obligation then on the part of 
the union to pay you any money, is that correct ? 

Mr. Camie. I had a 5 year elective term of office, and I still had 3 
years to serve out. 

Mr. Kennedy. But there was no contract, or there was no legal 
obligation on the part of the union to pay you the $36,000 ? 

Mr. Camie. I just had another 3 years to go, which I think was 
coming to me as severance pay. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can any Teamster official who is elected for a pe- 
riod or term of years, say 5 years, and decides to resign after 2 years, 
receive the rest of his salary for doing no work ? 

Mr. Camhs. Mr. Kennedy, if the corporation elects to retire an 
officer ahead of time, and they want to give him a severance pay for 
the duration of his term, I see nothing wrong with that, if it is 
done in the usual practice. 

The Chairman. Let me ask you this question. Is there any- 
thing in your constitution and bylaws that authorizes you to resign 
and pay yourself the balance of your salary for the time you were 
elected ? 

Mr. C 
688 and we did not have bylaws. 

The Chairman. All right, can you refer to any provision in 
the constitution that authorizes you to vote yourself a retirement or 
severance pay when you voluntarily retire? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14243 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Chairman, I did not pay myself any $36,000. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. You were on the board ; were you not ? 

Mr. Camie. That came from the United Distribution 

The Chairman. It came from what? 

Mr. Camie. United Distribution paid the severance pay. They 
took over the local. I mean, they took over the local, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. It came from another union ? 

Mr. Camie. It came from both unions, I believe; some of it was 
from 688, 1 believe. 

The Chairman. Some of it came from the union of which you were 
an officer ? 

Mr. Camie. That is right. 

The Chairman. And some of it came from the other union ? 

Mr. Camie. But I was not paying myself, sir. 

The Chairman. Who were you paying ? 

Mr. Camee. I didn't sign the checks. 

The Chairman. You took action on the board as a member of the 
board authorizing it. 

Mr. Camie. Pardon me, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Were you a member of the board that approved 
this deal? 

Mr. Camie. I was a member of the board that approved this merger. 

The Chairman. All right. Let's call it a merger. Were you a 
member of the board that approved the payment of severance pay to 
you officers who wanted to retire ? 

Mr. Camie. The board voted to accept severance pay. 

The Chairman. Were you a member of that board ? 

Mr. Camie. I was a member of that board. 

The Chairman. All right. Then you voted to pay yourself sev- 
erance pay ; didn't you ? 

Mr. Camie. I went along with the board ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You voted ; did you not? 

Mr. Camie. I did not vote. 

The Chairman. You were highly pleased with this action, I assume. 

Proceed. 

Senator Curtis? 

Senator Curtis. How much were the dues that the members were 
paying at that time? 

Mr. Camee. The monthly dues? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Camie. $3 per month. 

Senator Curtis. In both unions ? 

Mr. Camie. I don't know what the other union was charging. 

Senator Curtis. Well, if they were charging the same amount, 
$36,000 would amount to the dues of a member for 1,000 months or 
the dues of a hundred members for 10 months. From which union 
did this money— $36,000? If they paid $36 a year that would be the 
equivalent of a thousand men's dues for a year. I said a month. It 
is 1,000 men's dues for a year. That is what it amounted to. Did 
this come from the treasury of both unions ? 



14244 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Camie. The money came from the treasury of both unions, as 
1 understand. 

Senator Curtis. What other individuals got money under a similar 
arrangement ? 
Mr. Camie. The executive board of local 688. 
Senator Curtis. Will you name them ? 
Mr. Camie. If I can remember all the names. 
Senator Curtis. As many as you can. 

Mr. Camie I will give you as many as I can. Alpheus Kichter 
was the president. 

Senator Curtis. Where is Richter now? 
Mr. Camie. In the cemetery. He is dead. 

Senator Curtis. I see. How much did he get ? Do you know ? 
Mr Camie. He got, I think— I think his salary was $25 a month 
tor— I think it was $300 a year. I believe it was around $900 for the 
term. 
Senator Curtis. Who else? 

Mr. Camie. William Queenan was vice president. 
Senator Curtis. What did he get ? 
Mr. Camie. The same amount of money. 
Senator Curtis. As Kichter? 
Mr. Camie. That is right. 
Senator Curtis. Where is he now ? 
Mr. Camie. I think he joined Richter. 
Senator Curtis. Who else? 
Mr. Camie. Robert Campbell. 
Senator Curtis. How much did he get? 

Mr. Camie. The same amount. All the board, sir, got the same 
amount. 

Senator Curtis. Where is Campbell now ? 

Mr. Camie. Robert Campbell was the recording secretary of the 
union. I think Mr. Campbell has passed away. 
Senator Curtis. Who else? 

Mr. Camie. One of the trustees. His name was Ted. The last 
name I don't recall any more. 
Senator Curtis. Ted, a trustee ? 
Mr. Camie. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. About how much would he have gotten? 
Mr. Camie. The same amount, sir. They were all the same 
Senator Curtis. Who else? 
Mr. Camie. August Berneking. 
Senator Curtis. How much did he get ? 
Mr. Camie. The same amount. I think he is dead. 
Senator Curtis. Anybody else ? 

]\Ir. Camie. There was one more. I believe his name was William 
Stevens. The same amount. 

Senator Curtis. These were officers of the old union that had been 
under the CIO ? 

Mr. Camie. That is right, The 688 you are talking about, A. F. of L « 

Senator Curtis. Well 

Air. Camie. The ones I mentioned were board members of the 
union I headed up. Is that what you meant ? 
Senator Curtis. Yes. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14245 

Mr. Camie. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. Was that the board that voted to give this money? 

Mr. Camie. That was the board that voted to accept severance pay 
and the board that voted to merge the union. 

Senator Curtis. Did anybody vote on that action that did not get 
any pay ? 

Mr. Camie. Did anybody vote on that action that did not get any 
pay? 

Senator Curtis. That did not get any severance pay. 

Mr. Camie. The entire board and myself got severance pay. 

Senator Curtis. It took a majority on the board action ? 

Mr. Camie. The entire board. There were seven people on the board 
and they all voted for it, 

Senator Curtis. That is seven, including the president ? 

Mr. Camie. Including myself, yes, sir, there were seven. 

Senator Curtis. Did it take all of the money that was in the 
treasury ? 

Mr. Camie. To pay ? 

Senator Curtis. To pay these items. 

Mr. Camie. No, I don't think so. 

Senator Curtis. How much did you have left, would you estimate ? 

Mr. Camie. I beg your pardon. I don't think we had that kind of 
money in local 688. I don't believe we had that much money. We 
might have had around beween $20,000 and $30,000 in the treasury. 

Senator Curtis. Where did you get the rest of the money ? 

Mr. Camie. The rest of the money, I guess, came from the CIO 
distribution workers. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Senator Curtis. The officers had no ownership in the union, did 
they? 

Mr. Camie. They only had membership in the union. I don't think 
anybody, one particular person, owned the union. 

Senator Curtis. In other words, isn't it true that in truth and in 
fact you were in a fiduciary capacity, that is, you were handling other 
people's money ? 

Mr. Camie. I was the secretary of the union, and I was trusted with 
the money and I was bonded. 

Senator Curtis. You see, the purpose of these hearings is legisla- 
tive. That is the only legal reason we have for existing. It seems 
to me that the law must recognize that union officials are fiduciaries, 
just the same as court-appointed trustees, just the same as guardians, 
just the same as administrators and executors, and they are handling 
other people's money. 

Tins isn't the first instance that has been brought to light where 
leaders have gotten together and when someone left the union or 
there was a merger, a sum was paid. I am certainly not trying to 
chastise you in public. What happened in 1949 happened. That is 
over. I commend you for your frank answers and your relating the 
truth as you remember it. But I do want the record to show that I 
point it out as a general proposition that the Congress and maybe the 
States have up to now been negligent in protecting the rights of the 
workers and putting unions in a different category than other busi- 
nesses, in a different category than other voluntary associations. 



14246 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

They have had certain immunities. These immunities not only run 
along this line but many other lines. Here in this country we have 
no place for immunities. All citizens should live under the same law. 
I commend you for giving us an account of what happened. 

I think the problem is such that it needs legislative correction. 
That is all. 

The Chairman. The chairman asked you a while ago if you voted 
on this board to pay this money. You said no, that you went along 
with the board. I understood you in answer to Senator Curtis that 
all seven of you voted to pay yourselves that money. "Which is correct ? 

Mr. Camie. I would say, Mr. Chairman, we all agreed to accept the 
money, the severance pay. 

The Chairman. Arid to vote to pay it out of the union treasury? 

Mr. Camie. No, that amount of money, sir — — ■ 

The Chairman. Part of it came out of your own treasury, did it 
not? 

Mr. Camie. I do not deny that. I have here what came out of 688. 

The Chairman. You did not have enough money to pay all of it, 
or put this money up in escrow, and you had to borrow some of it, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Camie. I did not borrow any of it. 

The Chairman. Who borrowed it ? 

Mr. Camie. I don't know who borrowed it. I didn't know where the 
money came from at that time. I know now where it came from. It 
was publicized where it came from. 

The Chairman. Where did it come from ? 

Mr. Camie. $6,000 from Labor Health Institute. That was the 
United Distribution Workers. 

The Chairman. That was the one that was taking you over ? 

Mr. Camie. I think we took them over, I think, according to the 
record. We merged. 

The Chairman. You took them over and then you got out ? 

Mr. Camie. We merged and it was approved by the international 
president and the executive vice president of the international. 

The Chairman. Was it approved by the membership ? 

Mr. Camie. It was approved by the executive board. 

The Chairman. Was it approved by the membership ? 

Mr. Camie. By the membership? No, sir, but what was the best 
part of it was the membership was gaining by going over to that union, 
Mr. Gibbons', under the LHI plan, which gave aid to all the members. 
They were gaining by it. 

The Chairman. How long after were the dues raised? 

Mr. Camie. I left the union, sir, 9 years and 7 months ago, and I 
don't know. 

The Chairman. "When you left, you left, is that right ? 

You got yours and got out ? 

Mr. Camie. I might say this, Mr. Chairman, I don't think the dues 
were raised, because I was still a member of that organization for a 
year after I took severance pay, and they wasn't raised on me. 

The Chairman. You call it severance pay. 

Mr. Camie. That is right. 

The Chairman. Would you recognize a copy of the escrow agree- 
ment? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14247 

Mr. Camie. I have it here. 

The Chairman. Would you identify this document as a copy of the 
escrow agreement ? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Chairman, I have the original here, and if you want 
to use that— this looks like a copy of it. I have the original here. 

The Chairman. You have the original? 

Mr. Camie. I have the original. I might say this looks like it. 

The Chairman. For the present, I will make that exhibit No. 76. 
If it is not a true copy, you may compare it or your attorney may com- 
pare it during the recess hour, and if it is not a true copy, it will be 
removed from the record. I think it is. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 76" for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee. ) 

Mr. Camie. Also, Mr. Chairman, the amount is correct, as I see 
it here. 

The Chairman. Can you point out anywhere in there where the 
words "severance pay" are mentioned? Does it refer to severance 
pay at all? 

Look at your original, if you care to. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Camie. I don't see it. 

The Chairman. I didn't either. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. As a matter of fact, what happened was you and 
the rest of the executive board sold the union to Harold Gibbons for 
this amount of money, is that true, Mr. Camie ? 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Kennedy, I don't think that I would have the right 
to sell the property that belonged to somebody else. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is why you are here today. 

Mr. Camie. I didn't sell that union, and I could not sell it if I 
wanted to. It was not advertised for sale, I am sure. 

Mr. Kennedy. I would think that that would be correct, if this 
had all been taken up with the membership. But the executive board 
is the group that made the decision, the executive board is the one 
that decided to take the money, accept what you call severance pay, 
which doesn't appear in this escrow agreement at all, and turn the 
union over to Harold Gibbons. Between you, you got a good sum of 
money. I would like to call, Mr. Chairman, a committee investigator 
to disclose how much money actually was paid out of union funds 
by Harold Gibbons for this union. 

The Chairman. All right. Place him on the stand. 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

The Chairman. You have been previously sworn. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Eickmeyer, have you made an examination of 
the records of the union to determine what the situation is regarding 
Mr. Gibbons taking over local 688 and making entrance into the 
Teamsters Union? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir, I have. 



14248 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us if there was anyone else who re- 
ceived any money other than the ones Mr. Cardie has discussed? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Mr. Karsh, and Mr. Church. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Karsh's position ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I believe he was a business agent. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did he receive ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. He received a total of $18,355. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $18,355. And Mr. John Church, John J. Church, 
also received $18,355. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Church's position at that time? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I believe he was also a business agent. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the total amount that was received by 
Mr. Camie, Mr. Karsh, and Mr. Church ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $73,010. 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe there were 4 or 5 other individuals who 
reecived some $900 apiece ? 

The Chairman. $600, 1 believe. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Six others would be at $900, so that would be 
$5,400 more. That would be about $78,500, approximately. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did they receive this money? Was there 
that amount of money in the treasury ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. No, sir, there wasn't. On January 26, 1949, 
$6,000 was borrowed from the Labor Health Institute. 

The Chairman. Borrowed? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Borrowed. $13,000 was borrowed from the Unity 
Welfare Association. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the Unity Welfare Association ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I believe it is a pension fund or something of that 
nature. 

The Chairman. Give those again ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $6,000 from the Labor Health Institute, $13,000 
from the Unity Welfare Association, and then they took $7,360 out 
of local 688, which Mr. Camie headed, and they took $10,000 out of 
the United Distribution Workers, which Mr. Gibbons ran at the time. 
That was a total of $36,360 which was the source of the funds of the 
escrow agreement. 

The Chairman. That is the escrow agreement with reference to 
Mr. Camie? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. So all of that money was borrowed for Mr. Camie? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $13,000. 

Senator Curtis. When was it repaid and by whom ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $6,000, 1 understand, was repaid in approximately 
60 days. 

Senator Curtis. By whom ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. By the merged local, 688. The $13,000 borrowed 
from the Unity Welfare Association was never repaid and was writ- 
ten off the books. 

Senator Curtis. The Unity Welfare Association ? What was that ? 
Do vou know? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I think Mr. Gibbons had sort of a pension fund 
set up at the time, and this money was borrowed out of that. I 
don't believe it was completely set up as it is now, as a pension. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14249 

Senator Curtis. An informal arrangement, would you say ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Who was it to pay pensions to ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I don't know that, sir. 1 don't have any records 
back that far. The records that we were able to get from local 688 
only went back to July of 1952. Kecords prior to that time had been 
destroyed or somebody else had them. We have not been able to get 
them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is there any other money that was borrowed? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. No. The two payments to Karsh and Church 
were paid out of the funds of the merged local. 

Mr. Kennedy. When were they paid I 

Mr. Eickmeyer. In 1950 there were several payments. On Febru- 
ary 10, 1950, $10,000 was paid to Karsh and then on the 1st of March, 
April, May, and June of 1950, $2,000 was paid. On June 3 of 1955, 
the balance was paid, making a total of $18,355. 

John Church had a similar agreement and received similar amounts. 

The Chairman. Those two got all of their pay within 1 year ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Whereas Mr. Camie was carried over for a period 
of 3 years ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. It is 1 year or 2 years that Karsh and Church 

Mr. Eickmeyer. No, they all received it in the year 1950. 

The Chairman. Karsh and Church received all of theirs in the 
year 1950 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. What kind of security was given for these loans ? 
Who signed the papers ? Were you able to find out ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. No, sir, we didn't have any records going back that 
far. We had to go to the banks and other sources. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE J. CAMIE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, TED A. B0LINGER— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Camie, during the period of 1949, 1950, and 
1951, were you doing any other kind of work ? 

Mr. Camie. In the year of 1950, April, I bought an interest in the 
Plaza Express Co., which is a common carrier hauling company, and 
I was vice president of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was a trucking company, was it ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct, 

Mr. Kennedy. And you were receiving income from that during 
this period of time ? 

Mr. Camie. I was receiving income from Plaza Express. 

Mr. Kennedy. As well as this money that you received ? 

Mr. Camie. The money I received from the escrow agreement ? Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you received some money in connection with 
any labor-management relations work that you have done ? 

Mr. Camie. In what years \ 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, in the last few years or any time? 

Mr. Camie. I have done some labor relations work in 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. For whom ? 

21243— 59— pt. 38 8 



14250 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Camie. Coca-Cola Bottling Company of St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you receive for that ? 

Mr. Camie. Reluctantly they sent me to accept $2,000, and I sent 
it back to them with a letter stating that there was no charge. It was 
doing a favor for a friend. The management says : 

Twenty-five years of friendship. I don't feel we are paying you as labor rela- 
tions, but you have helped us out of a tight spot. You formerly were in the union 
business, and we appreciate your service. 

The same year they sent me a check for $1,500, making a total of 
$3,500 for the year of 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you received any other payments from them ? 

Mr. Camie. I tried to tell my dear friend, Mr. Cox, that I did not 
make a practice of labor relations business, but he says, "We have to 
have somebody, and you seem to be the best fellow we know for it." 

So I guess, Mr. Kennedy, I wound up with a labor relations job 
that I didn't want. 

Mr. Kennedy. What other payments did you receive from them ? 

Mr. Camie. I believe in 1957, 1 don't have my records at hand, there 
was $3,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1956 it was $3,500; is that right? 

Mr. Camie. I am pretty sure. It is in my tax record, whatever it 
is. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well it is approximately $3,500 in 1956 and $3,000 
in 1957 ; is that right ? 

Mr. Camie. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. You say they were in difficulty. Who were they in 
difficulty with? 

Mr. Camie. Coca-Cola Bottling Co. driver-salesmen had an inde- 
pendent union for quite a long time. 

Mr. Kennedy. What union were they in difficulty with? 

Mr. Camie. In about November of i955, they went over to local 
688, to join the union. The members of the independent union voted 
to go to the Teamsters, and from what I read in the paper they de- 
cided to take a strike vote. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the answer to the question ? 

Mr. Camie. They were on strike for about 6 months, I think. 

Mr. Kennedy. What union? Was it local 688 they were having 
difficulty with? 

Mr. Camie. 688, that is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had Mr. Harold Gibbons approached you origi- 
nally on this ? 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Harold Gibbons asked me if I knew the Coca-Cola 
bottling plant people, and I said, "Yes, I know them very well." He 
said, "Will you go and see them in my behalf?" He said, "Larry, if 
you do, I will compensate you for it." 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did he say he would give you ? 

Mr. Camie. Well, he said $10,000, but I think maybe he was joking, 
but anyhow, that was the amount set. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Gibbons offered you $10,000 to go see the Coca- 
Cola Bottling Co. ? 

Mr. Camie. I think he was joking, but anyhow I told him I would 
call him the next morning, after I would talk to the management that 
night, and see if they were in a frame of mind to talk to the union. I 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14251 

called Mr. Gibbons the following morning, and told him that I talked 
to Mr. Cox, and he would be glad to sit down and have a meeting 
with him. I said, "Harold, — " laughingly I said this, "That $10,000, 
I think you are pulling my leg, but I don't want any money from 
you, and I don't want anything. I will do it as a favor for you and 
my friend, Mr. Cox." 

Mr. Kennedy. So you arranged the meeting between them ? 

Mr. Camie. I arranged the meeting between them. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were not paid by the union but you were paid 
by Mr. Cox reluctantly? 

Mr. Camie. I would not accept anything from the union, Mr. Ken- 
nedy, as they had a hard enough struggle, and from one who had 
been in the union business and went through these strikes, he knows 
what the other fellow has to go through. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you received the money from Mr. Cox, instead? 

Mr. Camie. Reluctantly, I did ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Reluctantly you got your $6,500 ? 

Mr. Camie. Sir? 

Mr. Kennedy. Reluctantly you took the money ? 

Mr. Camie. The $2,000, and then the $1,500 for the same year. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then the $3,000 ? 

Mr. Camie. Yes, but it is like having fleas on a dog's back ; he won't 
let them get off. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it cash or a check ? 

Mr. Camie. Nobody pays me in cash. It was a check. 

Mr. Kennedy. You cashed the check ? 

Mr. Camie. The first one you are talking about, the first $2,000, I 
did not. I sent it back with a letter. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get it back again, then? 

Mr. Camie. I got it back, and I had to take it back. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever cash the check? 

Mr. Camie. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you cash the check for $1,500 ? 

Mr. Camie. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you cash the check for $3,000 ? 

Mr. Camie. I cashed the check for $2,000 and the check for $1,500, 
in the year 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then in 1957 ? 

Mr. Camie. In 1957 I cashed the check for $1,500, and the last half 
of 1957, another $1,500, and that was $3,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you cash them at all reluctantly ? 

Mr. Camie. I had no choice, may I say, and I am still representing 
him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you represented anybody else in labor rela- 
tions ? 

Mr. Camie. Yes, I have. I have represented the Black & White 
Taxicab Co., on a contract- 
Mr. Kennedy. How much do you receive from them ? 

Mr. Camie. $500. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is the total amount you have received. 

Mr. Camie. That is the total amount. 

Mr. Kennedy. What year was that ? 

Mr. Camie. I believe that was last year. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was that for ? 



14252 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Camie. Or this year, I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that with local 405 of the Teamsters? 

Mr. Camie. Let me correct one thing. I am just getting a little 
bit closer to this, what you are asking me. In 1957 in the negotiation 
of that contract for Black & White Cab Co., I received no money. But 
in 1957, I beg your pardon to clear that, 1958 I negotiated another 
agreement with Black & White for the dispatchers and the order 
takers, and in that connection they paid me $500. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there any other moneys that you received ? 

Mr. Camie. I received no other money for any favors or any labor 
relations business done by the companies to the best of my recollection. 

Mr. Kennedy. The problem that this cab company had was with 
local 405, was it? 

Mr. Camie. Local 405. 

Mr. Kennedy. Has Mr. Gibbons offered you any money on any 
other occasion to make arrangements with any employers? 

Mr. Camie. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was the only time ? 

Mr. Camie. It was the only time. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Are they any other questions? 

Senator Curtis. I have no questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Camie, why was this matter not submitted to 
the membership ? 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Chairman, I believe it was past at a meeting, and 
another thing, it was past the regular meeting and there was cold 
weather, would not have brought out a handful of members because 
most of our members worked in the lumberyards with outside work- 
ers, and when the men get home at night, they stay home, and they 
did not have transportation, probably all of them. 

The Chairman. Don't you think that the membership should know 
when it is being traded off or merged with some other union ? 

Mr. Camie. As long as my superior of the international union was 
acquainted with what was going on, Mr. Daniel J. Tobin, I felt that 
that was sufficient enough to go on and make a merger, and the AFL 
was gaining a little scope on the CIO. 

The Chairman. That is quite typical, and that is the very thing that 
this committee is concerned about. The membership are just handled 
like they were chattels, and not human beings, and not given a chance 
to express their views, or their will, or to determine what should be 
done with their money, but a few labor leaders get together and make 
a deal out of which they expect to profit. You could have submitted 
this to the membership of your union, could you not? You know that 
now, and in retrospect you know you should have done it as just a 
moral principle, don't you ? 

Mr. Camie. Probably, Mr. Chairman. I didn't look at that time at 
it, and I was only looking as to what benefits they were going to get out 
of the merger, because of this health institute Mr. Gibbons had. 

The Chairman. Could you see beyond the benefits that you were go- 
ing to get out of it ? 

Mr. Camie. I don't think, Mr. Chairman, that I benefited by it. 

The Chairman. You do not ? 

Mr. Camie. I don't think so at all. 

The Chairman. You had 3 years to work at anything you wanted to 
and go in business and get your money just the same. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14253 

Mr. Camie. That is true, Mr. Chairman, but let us go back to the 
inception of this union, when I did not get any pay for 6 months, and 
they did not have any money. That is where we should start, from the 
beginning. 

The Chairman. Do you not think that your membership ought to 
have something to say about your pay ? When you go to sell out here, 
you take care of yourself without consulting them. 

Mr. Camie. Mr. Chairman, this was not a sellout deal. That was not 
advertised for sale. This was known publicly. 

The Chairman. A lot of sales are made and transactions of this na- 
ture that are never advertised. 

Mr. Camie. Don't corporations merge without advertising ? 

The Chairman. No, sir, I do not think that they do. Stockholders 
have to approve it. 

Mr. Camie. Stockholders don't approve all of the sales. 

The Chairman. They don't approve all sales, but they approve all 
sales of assets, where it is in book. 

Mr. Camie. They send you a proxy, and they say whatever other 
business comes before the board, that is O. K. 

The Chairman. Did you send the membership a proxy ? 

Mr. Camie. The membership knew there was a meeting. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr. Camie. They knew when the meeting nights were. 

The Chairman. But you said you did this after a regular meeting 
night. 

Mr. Camie. The executive board was sufficiently qualified to run 
the union. 

The Chairman. That is the position you folks take. That is 
exactly what is wrong. That is exactly what is permitting all of this 
corruption in unionism, in some unions at least. You officers take 
the position that you own it, and you can run it and do what you 
please with it, and the membership need not be consulted. You 
arrogate unto yourselves the judgment and the authority to deal with 
it as you please. That is why this committee is concerned, and that 
is why the Congress is concerned, and that is why the American 
public is looking to the Congress today to enact some legislation to 
protect the men and women of this country who belong to unions, 
and who pay their dues. 

All right. Thank you, and you may stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Capt. Thomas L. Moran. 

The Chairman. Captain Moran, will you come around, please? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this 
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nohing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Moran. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS L. MORAN 

The Chairman. State your name, and your place of residence, and 
your present occupation. 

Mr. Moran. Thomas Moran, 5387 Queens Avenue, St. Louis, Mo., 
detective captain, St. Louis Police Department. 

The Chairman. Do you waive counsel, Captain ? 



14254 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have just had the testimony on how Mr. Harold 
Gibbons entered into the Teamsters movement, and got control over 
a Teamsters local. I would like to call Captain Moran to give us 
some background regarding the activities of Mr. Gibbons prior to 
the time he came into the Teamsters Union, and since he has been 
a Teamster Union official. 

Now, you have been in the police department in St. Louis for how 
many years ? 

Mr. Moran. This is my 24th year. 

Mr. Kennedy. What have your duties been ? 

Mr. Moran. Since 1941 1 have been on the bombing and arson squad, 
which handles labor trouble. 

Mr. Kennedy. Since what year ? 

Mr. Moran. 1941. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you been the head of this squad ? 

Mr. Moran. Not all of that time. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long have you been head of it ? 

Mr. Moran. Since 1947. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, during the course of your work, have you had 
an opportunity or a chance to see the operation of Mr. Harold Gibbons 
in the unions in which he has been associated? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did he first come to St. Louis, or when was he 
first brought to your attention ? 

Mr. Moran. About 1941. 

Mr. Kennedy. What union was he with then ? 

Mr. Moran. The CIO warehouse local. 

Mr. Kennedy. Has there been any single characteristic or difficulty 
that you have had with Mr. Gibbons and the unions that he has been 
associated with? 

Mr. Moran. Well, practically every union that he has been connected 
with has had one incident after another of violence and disturbances 
on picket lines. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of violence do you have in mind? 

Mr. Moran. Well, going back to early 1948, there was a CIO local 
22 that was organizing colored taxicabs, and Harold Gibbons and 
Richard Kavner were the main people in local 22. During that time 
we had numerous incidents of violence and destruction of cabs and 
shooting up cabs, and beating of cabdrivers, and it was quite a violent 
deal. 

Then in 1949 when the merger between local 688 and Harold Gibbons' 
independent union started with an organizing attempt at the Rawlings 
Manufacturing Co. by local 688, we had instances of shellac and 
varnish being placed in the trucks, and freezing the motors, and the 
same year Gray Manufacturing Co., a subsidiary of Rawlings, had an 
organizing attempt by local 688, and we had the same type of instances 
relating to their trucks, and later in 1949 

The Chairman. May I interrupt there? Was Mr. Gibbons in 
charge of or president of 688 at the time you are now testifying about? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, this is 1949, after Mr. Gibbons was in local 688. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14255 

The Chairman. And the trouble you are testifying about now, this 
attempt to organize this company, was after lie became president of 
688? 

Mr. Moran. That is right. 

The Chairman. All right, 

Mr. Moran. Later in 1949, at the Rawlings Manufacturing Co., we 
had an incident where phosphorus was thrown through a louver ven- 
tilator on their shipping room floor. It landed on the concrete floor 
and disintegrated and there were small instances of fires in cardboard 
cartons. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the phosphorus? Can you explain that to 
us? 

Mr. Moran. Well, phosphorus is a chemical that, as we came in 
contact with it on these incidents, was in stick form. Apparently it 
was a larger stick. It comes in two size sticks. The small stick is 
about the diameter of a lead pencil and the larger stick is about three- 
fourths of an inch in diameter. Both sticks are approximately 8 
inches long. Phosphorus has to be kept under water at all times. 
It obtains self-ignition at ordinary room temperature. After it is 
out of the water for just a short while, as soon as the temperature of 
the phosphorus get to about 75 or 76 degrees, it will ignite itself. 
There are some variations as to how quickly it will light, depending 
upon weather conditions and the moisture in the air. 

Senator Curtis. I have a brief question at this point, Suppose 
the phosphorus is kept under water and dropped or placed in a room 
that is, say 76° or 77° F. About how much time would elapse before 
it would ignite ? 

Mr. Moran. Well, like I say, it does depend on weather conditions. 
On a cold night or a damp night, it is going to take longer for the 
phosphorus to warm up. 

Senator Curtis. Give me the two extremes. I am interested in the 
time element there. Give your best estimate. 

Mr. Moran. Well, on a day like today, probably, it would be a 
matter of just a few minutes. 

Senator Curtis. 15, 20, or 5 ? 

Mr. Moran. Less than that, I can give you a concrete example on 
how quickly it will ignite. 

Senator Curtis. All right. 

Mr. Moran. In lectures I was conducting at the fire department 
training school, after these incidents, I was using phosphorus as an 
illustration. I would take a small piece out of the jar of water and 
let it smolder and begin to give off its fumes so the firemen could 
detect the odor of phosphorus. 

Then I would place it back in the jar. On one incident, on a fairly 
warm day, I was talking about my phosphorus just a little too long 
and in less than about 3 minutes the phosphorus went up right while 
I was demonstrating it. So it will go up very quickly in a matter of 
several minutes on a hot, dry day. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now will you go ahead? 

Mr. Moran. After this phosphorus attempt at Rawlings, which hap- 
pened in September of 1949, in March of 1950 we had phosphorus 
thrown at the Grady Manufacturing Co. In May of 1950 an employee 



14256 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

of the Adler Manufacturing Co., which was being picketed also by 
(588, had his truck parked in front of his home and the truck caught 
on fire. The lire was extinguished quickly enough for us to recover 
some phosphorus from the driver's compartment. 

Then 3 nights later the same truck, parked in the same location, was 
completely destroyed by fire. In the second fire, the destruction was 
so great we were unable to uncover any evidence of ignition from the 
damaged truck. Then a month later, in June of 1950, we had phos- 
phorus thrown through the rear window of the Adler Manufacturing 
Co. 

An investigation at that scene disclosed that the phosphorus was 
thrown through a window in the alley, and at the base of the window 
was found a man's wrist watch. This wrist watch was checked by 
serial numbers from the manufacturer to a local jeweler in St. Louis, 
who sold it to a Mrs. San Soucie, who gave it to her husband, Eugene 
San Soucie, as a birthday present. Eugene San Soucie was a business 
agent for local 688. 

Mr. San Soucie was arrested about a month later, and at the time 
of his arrest he was suffering from chemical burns on the hand. The 
examination at the city hospital after his arrest indicated that he had 
received treatment from somebody for the injuries. Mr. San Soucie 
made no attempt to explain to us how or where he received the injuries. 
Of course, he did not admit throwing the phosphorus into the Adler 
Manufacturing Co. Warrants were applied for against Mr. San 
Soucie and he was held for the grand jury. At the grand jury hearings 
an indictment was refused. Then going beyond that, in July of 1950, 
a picket line at the Louis Howe Drug Co., shellac, again, in the motors 
of automobiles. 

In August of 1950, the same drug firm, stench bombing. Then 
also in March of 1952, 688 was attempting to organize the wholesale 
liquor industry. During this organizing attempt, the wholesale li- 
quor people were trying to make deliveries of liquor to their various 
accounts. They had salesmen that were working soliciting business. 
Their drugs were being followed by carloads of, apparently, union 
people or union sympathizers. They were being shunted into the 
curb. They were quite alarmed and they asked for police protection 
from the men following them. We did talk to quite a few of the 
union members who were picketing the place, and some of those that 
were following the cars. We explained to them that they clearly had 
a right, if they so desired, to follow these cars to determine where 
deliveries were being made, but they definitely had no right to pull 
them into the curb, to threaten them or try to intimidate them in any 
way. During that organizing attempt, an employee of Stickney 
Hoelscher, a Floyd Debalt, was on his way home from work and two 
cars occupied by several men pulled him into the curb. He was given 
a beating, and the windows in his automobile were broken. 

A witness at the scene got the license number of a black Ford, and 
we were furnished that description of the car and the license number, 
and a very good description of the driver of the car. The injured 
man was interviewed and he looked at pictures that we had at the 
police department and he picked out a picture of a man that assaulted 
him, the driver of the car, and an arrest order was put out for that 
man. An investigation was made at local 688's headquarters at 1127 
Pine Street for the particular automobile, whose license was issued 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14257 

to the Teamsters at 1127 Pine. We were informed that they did not 
know where the car was, that it was always left in the parking lot 
adjoining union headquarters, with the keys in the ignition. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whose automobile was it l 

Mr. Moran. It was one that the union had assigned to Harold Gib- 
bons, and it was equipped with a mobile telephone that was assigned 
to Harold Gibbons. In checking the parking lot, in the place where 
the black Ford should have been parked was a taxicab. The taxicab 
was the one used by a man, Herman Hendricks, whose picture had 
been identified as the assailant. 

Mr. Kennedy. How do you spell his name ? 

Mr. Moran. H-e-r-m-a-n H-e-n-d-r-i-c-k-s. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he associated with the local? 

Mr. Moran. He was a business representative of local 688. We 
checked our records later to see if the union had reported the car 
stolen. To this day that car, the property of local 688, has never been 
reported stolen, has never been recovered, as far as I know. In the 
course of our investigation, about 3 to 4 weeks after this incident, 
that car — someone in that car made a telephone call on the mobile 
transmitter in Chicago, and that bill was paid for by the union. So 
the union still had control of the car 4 weeks later. 

The Chairman. But the car was in Chicago and not in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Moran. That is the only time we located it, through a tele- 
phone call placed on the mobile transmitter in Chicago, 3 or 4 weeks 
after the incident. 

The Chairman. That same car was in Chicago 3 or 4 weeks later ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And they called the local union, and the local 
union paid for the call ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right, The call was billed to the union 
through the telephone company, but the union, as late as a month, I 
know as late as a month, after the incident, the union had never re- 
ported that mobile unit as being out of service due to the car being 
stolen. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the automobile that was clearly identified 
as the automobile used in the assault ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, which was used in the assault. Then during that 
same organizing attempt at the liquor stores, one of the salesmen that 
was working during the strike for the liquor company had a fire on 
the rear part of his garage. The fire was started in the alley. Wit- 
nesses described to us a car witli a broken muffler or a damaged 
exhaust. It made an awful noise and that is why they noticed it so 
well. They supplied us with the license number. Our investigation 
clearly indicated an attempt was made to set the door on fire, It 
was not an accidental fire. As a result of the information obtained 
from witnesses we arrested a Jack Ballard and a Charlie Chew in that 
automobile, 

Our witnesses positively identified the automobile, but because the 
incident happened in the alley they could not identify the individuals. 
Both Ballard and Chew were paid picket line men at the Stickney 
Hoelscher Liquor Co. Then later on, an organizing attempt was 
made at the Mavrakos Candy Co. We had numerous instances of 
stench fluid being used at Mavrakos. It was not a stench bomb 
thrown in the place. It was stench fluid that was being forced under 



14258 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

the doors and through the keyholes at night, and when the place of 
business, the candy stores would be opened in the morning, of course, 
the inside was thoroughly saturated with a very obnoxious odor. 

Senator Curtis. Could I ask you a question right there ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Were these businesses that were unorganized ? 

Mr. Moran. Not always. Mavrakos had been organized some time 
before by 688. 

Senator Curtis. Was this harassment and this violence committed 
in order to compel individuals to come into the union or did it have 
the aspects of being an extortion ? 

Mr. Moran. No, I would say it was for intimidation purposes to 
encourage the owners to negotiate and settle rather than suffer more 
damage or more loss of business. 

Senator Curtis. In order for the owners to sign up with the union ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. I would say that at no time during all the 
trouble we had with 688 to our knowledge was there any attempt at 
extortion. 

Senator Curtis. It was to have the union go into that place of busi- 
ness and establish themselves as the bargaining agent ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. Were there any cases where it was individually 
owned or family owned business and they wanted to get the owners to 
join the union ? 

Mr. Moran. I don't recall any circumstances like that. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Moran. Then I just wanted to continue on Mavrakos. During 
the course of that labor trouble we had alerted all of our crews riding 
at night to pay particular attention to any Mavrakos candy stores in 
St. Louis. One of our crews riding in South Grand Union chased a 
car from the front of a Mavrakos store. They did catch the car and 
the occupants. One of the occupants was Jack Ballard, whom we 
previously had arrested for the arson attempt during the strike. In 
the car were quart jars containing a fluid, I believe our chemist said it 
was ammonium valerate. It was a very, very obnoxious odor, and 
syringes which were used to syringe the fluid through the doors of the 
Mavrakos stores. Ballard again was connected with 688. 

The Chairman. What position did he have; was he an officer? 

Mr. Moran. No, sir. He was a paid picket walker. 

The Chairman. In other words, he was not an employee of the place 
where they were trying to organize, but he was hired just as a picket? 

Mr. Moran. That's rio-ht. 

The Chairman. By the union ? 

Mr. Moran. That's right. 

The Chairman. Do you know whether he was from St. Louis ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, he is from St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Will you briefly give us some of the other examples 
you have. Take us up through 1952 or 1953. 

Mr. Moran. I am up to 1952. 

Well, in January 1952, Mr. Gibbons made an application to the 
police department to carry a revolver. Now that application was in 
the form of a private watchman's license. Nobody in St. Louis is 
given a permit to carry a revolver other than law enforcement officers 
like myself or licensed private beat watchmen or licensed watchmen 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14259 

for particular premises where they are employed. When Mr. Gibbons 
went to our personnel office to fill out this application he was told he 
would hace to get this employer to fill it out, stating what his job 
was with the company and the necessity for carrying the revolver. 

Mr. Gibbons did not come back to process the rest of the application. 
So on our records it shows as an application that was denied. 

Then 2 months later he contacted the police department and claimed 
to have received anonymous threats on the telephone and wanted police 
protection, and we did agree to alert the footmen and the car crews 
riding around the building. 

Mr. Kennedy. He said he had received these telephone calls and 
they threatened him? 

Mr. Moran. Anonymous phone calls, threatening his life and threat- 
ening to bomb the building. 

Mr. Kennedy. He wanted police protection for himsel f ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right; himself and the building. He had no 
idea who was making the calls, and he could not give us very good 
reasons for receiving the calls. 

So we did the usual police procedure. We did alert the men pa- 
trolling the area where the union building was located and also the 
men riding in the scout cars. 

Then in December 1953 there was a series of meetings at the Team- 
ster hall, 4141 Forest Park Boulevard, of Teamster Local 682. At 
those meetings Teamster Local 682 had been divided into segments. 
The union, instead of meeting as one whole group, would meet in 
relation to what type of chauffeurs they were. It was a construction 
union. The lumber drivers would belong to one division of the local ; 
the gravel material drivers to another, and so forth. 

The first meeting was one in which a James Ford and a Peter 
Higgins, both members of 682, attended the meeting. It seems that 
at this meeting there was some opposition to Mr. Gibbons' control of 
the local, quite vehement arguments on the floor, and Mr. Gibbons 
apparently was asked to answer and the meeting broke up in a brawl. 

The police were not detailed during the meeting. We had no ad- 
vance notice that there may be trouble. Later, after another meeting 
of the same local, but different segment of the local, Mr. Ford and Mr. 
Higgins came again to the meeting and at the door of the hall they 
were denied admittance. There evidently were some words passed, 
and as a result, James Ford received a terrific beating and was thrown 
out. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to him ? 

Mr. Moran. His injuries consisted of a broken nose, a fractured 
cheekbone, the front teeth were knocked or kicked out. He had 
broken ribs and I believe a pierced lung. He was beaten in the hall 
and out toward the door and then thrown over the top railing out on 
the sidewalk. 

I interviewed Mr. Ford at the hospital. He was unable to name 
specifically any person who actually struck him. His story to me 
was that he was being hit by so many so often that he could not pick 
out an individual. 

The Chairman. What was he attempting to do, attend a union 
meeting of a local of which he was a member? 



14260 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Mohan. Yes, but it so happened it was not a segment that he 
belonged to. It was broken clown into five, so that local 682 would 
not meet in an entire body. It would only meet in a portion. 

After Mr. Ford got a beating there were some additional meetings 
scheduled for the other segments of local 682. We procured a uni- 
form police detail :it the Teamster Building, myself and another 
crew of detectives were also there. We were inside the building but 
not in the union hall. I attended about three consecutive meetings 
of that group, that is Teamster Local 682. The majority of the people 
I saw at meetings were members of Teamster Local 405, cabdriveis. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did Mr. Gibbons have to do with 682 ? 

Mr. Moran. 682 was one of the locals he took over as trustee. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was trustee of that and had control over that 
local ; is that right ? 

Mr. Moran. That's right. 



Mr. Kennedy. And 405, al 



so 



Mr. Moran. The same way. 

Mr. Kennedy. 405 was the taxicab local ? 

Mr. Moran. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. When Mr. Ford was questioned by you, didn't he 
state there Mas a large number of men from local 405 present at the 
time he got his beating \ 

Mr. Moran. Yes. He said he got his beating from cabdrivers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Those were 405 men who were allowed at the meeting 
.of local 682 when he, who was a member of 682, was not allowed at 
the meeting ? 

Mr. Moran. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. We are going into that a little bit more, Mr. Chair- 
man, who was responsible and who sent the individuals to local 682 
and caused the beating of Mr. Ford. 

The Chairman. In other words, the ones that did the beating were 
not actually members of that local at all ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. But they were permitted in the meeting? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. But the members of the local were forcibly pre- 
vented from attending the meeting of the local ? 

Mr. Moran. These particular men who tried to attend were denied. 

Mr. Kennedy. Go ahead. 

Mr. Moran. These incidents of severe violence, property damage, 
have abated. We are not having that violence now. We haven't had 
for the last couple of years. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had them in 1953 ? 

Mr. Moran. That's correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. A considerable number in 1953 ? 

Mr. Moran. That's right, 

Mr. Kennedy. In connection with the Yellow Cab strike? 

Mr. Moran. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was very violent, was it not? 

Mr. Moran. Well, the Yellow Cab strike in 1953 was a violent 
strike. There were numerous instances of violence, sluggings, de- 
struction of cabs, and even larceny of a cab. 

Mr. Kennedy. One of the cabs was stolen ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14261 

Mr. Mokan. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you ever able to find out what happened to it? 

Mr. Moran. The stolen cab was in December of 1953, and just a 
matter of several months ago we recovered that from the river about 
approximately four blocks from the scene of the theft. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then in 1954 there were once again in the Allen Cab 
strike, acts of violence, were there not? 

Mr. Moran. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. The violence in the Yellow Cab strike of 1953 lasted 
from December 4, 1953, to about May 1954, was it ? Well, all the way 
through December 1953; is that right, for the Yellow Cab strike? 

Mr. Moran. The Yellow Cab strike was settled on December 29, 
1953. 

Mr. Kennedy. So the violence took place during the month of 
December ? 

Mr. Moran. The month of December 1953. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then the Allen Cab strike was from November 1954 
through May of 1955 ; is that right? 

Mr. Moran. That's correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Again there was considerable damage done to per- 
sons and property ? 

Mr. Moran. That's right. There is just a slight difference. In 
the Allen Cab strike that is what we call a Negro taxicab company. 
It has been in existence for a long time and has all Negro drivers. 
The last couple of years we do have Negro drivers with other white 
cabdrivers. This is an old Negro cab company. 

In their violence we did have numerous cabs that were shot up, 
burnt, and also damaged with breaking the windows out. 

In the Yellow Cab we didn't have the shooting-up of taxicabs like 
we did the Allen cabs. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have gone through 6 or 7 years in which there 
was a considerable amount of violence and many different strikes. 
Is this a pattern with other unions in the St. Louis area ? 

Mr. Moran. Definitely not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is this kind of violence associated just with Mr. 
Harold Gibbons ? Do you find it with other Teamster locals ? 

Mr. Moran. No, we find this type of violence, the type of organiz- 
ing, picket-line disturbances, and whatnot, is common practically only 
to local 688 or unions that are dominated by Harold Gibbons. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, this goes far beyond just picket-line violence 
as you described it here today, where you have bombings, where you 
have attempted arsons and larcenies, where you have people beaten 
up. It goes far beyond picket-line violence. 

Mr. Moran. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is this something that is unique with the locals 
under the direction of Mr. Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir, I would say it is. We don't have this trouble 
with other locals in St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you give any explanation for that? 

Mr. Moran. Well, it is the same pattern that was used when he was 
a member of the CIO. Going back long before Mr. Gibbons joined 
the Teamster movement we did have serious trouble with CIO organ- 
izers; they were a more militant group and they were more apt to 



14262 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 



cause violence. Going back to our CIO strikes they were great advo- 
cates of mass picketing where they would have large numbers of peo- 
ple surround the building, actually more people than could actually 
lit in the space they were using, a number of people that would cause 
the police department to bring out large details of men to try to keep 
the peace. 

That was a common CIO practice. It was a practice that the AFL, 
not only Teamsters, but all the AFL unions in St. Louis, did not 
indulge in. 

After Mr. Gibbons came into the AFL by virtue of the merger with 
688, then we began to get mass picketing from the Teamster Local 688 
and we had the same type of trouble as far as the police department is 
concerned, with certain Teamsters locals after Mr. Gibbons came in 
that we did have with the CIO prior to that. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the association with the underworld 
figures in St. Louis? Do you find that the membership of the local 
and Mr. Gibbons himself have associated with what you consider 
and have found to be the underworld figures in St. Louis? 

Mr. Moran. They seem to have more than a talking acquaintenance 
with some of our leading underworld characters, and with some of the 
men who we deem to be, in our opinion, about as bad as there are in 
the country. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who would they include? 

Mr. Moran. Johnnie Vitale. 

Mr. Kennedy. Does Mr. Gibbons know him ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, he knows John Vitale. He knows Anthony Gi- 
ardano. He knows Anthony Lopiparo. 

Mr. Kennedy. Joe Costello? 

Mr. Moran. And Joe Costello. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do your other union officials in St. Louis associate 
or know these kind of individuals ? 

Mr. Moran. I don't know of any other union officials that to my 
knowledge have been seen associating with them, and I seriously 
doubt if they know them. They probably know of them. 

Mr. Kennedy. It is not necessary in the St. Louis area to be a 
union official and have an acquaintanceship or an association with 
these kind of individuals; is that right? 

Mr. Moran. It is not only not necessary, but it is to their advantage 
not to be seen with them, because we have in St. Louis a hoodlum 
squad or an intelligence unit which is constantly surveilling our 
known hoodlums, particularly our really bad hoodlums. It is defi- 
nitely to a union official's disadvantage to be seen or to be going any- 
place with them because that winds up in our records as a memo- 
randum, and, of course, it also has a tendency to guide our opinions 
as to what type of union officials they are. So it absolutely is not 
necessary and it is not to their advantage to associate with them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you have two situations, one of the association 
with the underworld figures in St. Louis, which is an association that 
Mr. Harold Gibbons and certain of the other union officials under 
him in local 688 have, which other union officials do not have. Then 
you have the resort to violence, which Mr. Harold Gibbons and his 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14263 

union have used, but which other unions and union officials have not 
used in the St. Louis area. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What has his relationship been toward the police 
department? . 

Mr. Moran. Well, since Ins arrival in St. Louis, or, I will put it 
this way, since I first met him, up to the present time, he has clearly 
indicated he has absolutely no use for the police department or for 
policemen. 

His attitude is that we do things that we are not paid to do by 
sticking our nose into his business, by checking on picket lines or by 
interfering with his type of picketing, and he has gone to great lengths 
to impress upon his people that the policeman is definitely against 
unions and definitely against them; that we are strikebreakers; we 
are on the side of management. 

He attempts to have the men on the picket line start out with a 
resentful attitude toward the police department. 

Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't his brother a policeman at one time? 

Mr. Moran. He had a brother on the police force in Chicago. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you anything about him ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. On one of my first meetings with Mr. Gib- 
bons I interpreted it to be his way of straightening me out on his 
attitude toward me and the police department. There was an oc- 
casion where we were checking on his organizing attempt of the 
Negro taxicabs and he claimed to have a CIO charter. At that time- 
there was another CIO charter that had been in St. Louis for some 
t^me. We wanted to see his charter, to see how bona fide his or- 
ganizing attempt was. 

He told us that we had no business to ask to look at his charter, 
we had no business to doubt his word, but he would show us the 
charter anyway. At that time he told me that he had a brother on 
the police force in Chicago, and he has not talked to him since the 
day he went on. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was a wildcat strike by the members of local 
405 against Mr. Gibbons in 1956. Were there any hoodlums hired 
at that time in St. Louis by Mr. Gibbons ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. An article appeared in the paper where 
Mr. Gibbons stated that there would be 50 official cars, official union 
cars, patrolling the streets. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were these people hired through Joe Costello, do 
you know ? 

Mr. Moran. It is my understanding that there were some brought 
over from East St. Louis, and there were some members of local 405 
who had made a reputation for being tough, or had done time, and 
they were employed to ride around and try to line up the cab drivers 
who were out and force them back. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was quite a number of them with criminal 
records, is that right? 

Mr. Moran. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Mr. Barney Baker ? 

The Chairman. Do you know who hired these people? Do you 
have definite information as to who actually hired them and brought 
them in there? 



14264 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Moran. I do not, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. We will have some information on that. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever have a chance to come across Mr. 
Barney Baker? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, I have talked to him and I have arrested him. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was he doing there ? 

Mr. Moran. Barney Baker, as a rule, appeared in St. Louis when 
intimidation or force was going to be necessary because immediately 
after Mr. Baker's appearance, it would seem like the strike would take 
on a violent tinge and incidents would happen. 

Mr. Kennedy. You arrested him in 1956, did you ? 

Mr. Moran. No; not in 1956. I arrested him prior to that. I 
arrested Baker in about the middle of 1954. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was this in connection with some man being beaten? 

Mr. Moran. Not my arrest, no. My arrest was just because we 
happened to run across him and we brought him in to see what he was 

Mr.' Kennedy. But he was arrested in 1956, was he? That was 
when a man got beaten with a baseball bat ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right. He was arrested after an incident where 
a driver was assaulted by four men in a car, and he was struck across 
either the side of the face or the side of head with a bat. He gave a 
description of the automobile and the occupants, and later four men 
were arrested and in the car was a bat. The victim identified one of the 
men positively as being the one that assaulted him, but he could not 
identify the other three. Baker was one of the other three. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was Mr. Barney one of those who was arrested? 

Mr. Moran. Mr. Baker was one of the four who was arrested. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Lou Shoulders, Jr., was another one? 

Mr. Moran. That is right, Lou Shoulders, Jr., and a Mr. Cannella. 

The Chairman. Have you any questions, Senator ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. In regard to the cab that was pushed into 
the river, could you establish about when it was pushed in? Was 
there anything about the report of the theft or the contents of the cab, 
such as a driver's sheet or instruments on the cab, or anything else? 

Mr. Moran. No. In recovering the cab there was no way we could 
determine how long it had been in the river. It had been m there 
such a long period of time that the interior of the cab was com- 
pletely filled with silt from the river bottom. 

Senator Curtis. Did the owner ever identify the cab ? 

Mr. Moran. It was easy to identify the cab because the license 
plate was still on it, and the cab number, three, was still visible on 
the side in front of the front door. 

Senator Curtis : I may be in error, but I think that the former 
wife of Barney Baker testified about his remark to her that he 
pushed a cab into the river. Based upon your knowledge of when this 
trouble was and when this cab was stolen, could you tell me now 
about the time that it was probably pushed into the river ? 

Mr. Moran. Shortly after, I would say within an hour or so, after 
the cab was stolen, an investigation was being made on the larceny 
of the cab. We received information 

Senator Curtis. What was that date ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14265 

Mr. Moran. That was December 6, 1953. We received information 
to the effect that the cab had been run into the river. The way we 
were receiving that information was more or less mouth to moutli 
from people who probably knew and did not want to be involved. 
We tried to check it down further to locate just where on our levee 
it had been run into the river. 

We could not come up with any positive information on exactly 
where it was run into the river, but we were convinced immediately 
after the theft was reported that the cab was in the river, from the 
information that was channeled to us. 

Senator Curtis. The Mississippi is quite a river there in St. Louis, 
isn't it? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. How deep is it ? 

Mr. Moran. Well, it will vary, but when we recovered the car, 
we recovered it from about 25 feet of water. 

Senator Curtis. You spoke of the alliance between hoodlums and 
the criminal element. I want to establish for the record this point : 
East St. Louis is across the river in Illinois, isn't it % 

Mr. Moran. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. And that does create some jurisdictional problems 
when you are pursuing or investigating someone. You have your 
authority from the State of Missouri and the city of St. Louis, is 
that true ? 

Mr. Moran. There is difficulty. Of course, they can stay away from 
us so easily by living in East St, Louis or by getting out into East 
St. Louis. 

Senator Curtis. And it has been regarded by some, because of that 
difficulty, that East St. Louis has been sort of a refuge for some bad 
actors ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Moran. I would say that is correct. 

Senator Curtis. Did some of these union people, these Teamster 
people that you have been talking about, have contacts and alliances 
with East St. Louis hoodlums ? 

Mr. Moran. Well, Lou Shoulders, Jr., whose name was mentioned 
as being in company with Barney Baker when he was arrested, is 
quite a frequenter on the East Side. In fact, he is still under indict- 
ment for murder over on the east side of the river. There are a 
number of hoodlums from the east side of the river that we like to 
think in the past few years don't bother to come to St. Louis any 
more, because we have made it a little too hot for them. 

Senator Curtis. But that is the same crowd that associated with 
these Teamster leaders and agents ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right, 

Senator Curtis. Lieutenant Shoulders — who is his father ? 

Mr. Moran. Lou Shoulders, do you mean? 

Senator Curtis. Lou Shoulders. 

Mr. Moran. His father was former Lieutenant Shoulders. 

Senator Curtis. And he was the man whose name cropped up in 
the Greenlease money ? 

Mr. Moran. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. When did this mass picketing occur, during what 
years, both under CIO and under the new union ? 

21243— 59— pt. 38 9 



14266 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Moran. Throughout the 1940's we had numerous instances of 
mass picketing at various places being organized by the CIO. 

Senator Curtis. Did it continue after 1948 ? 

Mr. Moran. Yes, sir. It continued after 688 was merged with the 
independent union of Mr. Gibbons. It did continue for a while after 
that. 

Senator Curtis. As I recall, the Taft-Hartley law outlaws that, 
and that was completed in 1948. 

I would like to ask the staff — I think I have a general idea, but 
for the purpose of the record what are Harold Gibbons' official posi- 
tions with unions at the present time, and the various capacities ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He is a vice president of the international, which 
is his most important job, and I would think that he has at least 
probably a half-dozen other jobs. He is still president of 688? 

Mr. Moran. He still retains his office in 688, and I believe local 
405 is still under trusteeship. 

Senator Curtis. And he is one of the trustees ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Moran. Mr. Gibbons is the international trustee who took 
over all of these various local in St. Louis. Then he appointed other 
men to conduct those particular locals under his supervision as a 
national trustee. 

Senator Curtis. Does he have any position in the Central Confer- 
ence? 

Mr. Kennedy. He is secretary-treasurer of the Central Conference 
of Teamsters, of which Mr. Hoffa is president. 

Senator Curtis. And that is an area comprising a number of States. 

Mr. Moran. I believe it is 13 States. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is also executive secretary — he replaced Einar 
Mohn. He took over Einar Mohn's position in connection with Dave 
Beck. 

Mr. Moran. Do you mean in the international ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Moran. He is an international vice president ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is an international vice president and he is also, 
I believe, executive secretary or vice president. 

Senator Curtis. Does he have any position involving pension and 
welfare funds ? 

I will ask either the witness or the staff that question. I want to es- 
tablish this for the record. 

Mr. Moran. His position in that regard would be due to being the 
head of local 688, in local 688 you do have welfare plans and you do 
have the LHI, which are separate funds. He has control over those 
through hisposition in local 688. 

Senator Curtis. Now, the Central Conference of Teamsters extends, 
generally speaking, from the Chicago area on the west, whereas the 
Western Conference begins in the Mountain States, is that right? 

Mr. Moran. I would think so. I don't know that they are those 
States, but it would be through the entire Midwest. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is also president of the joint council in St. Louis. 

Mr. Moran. He is trustee of the joint council. He took over the joint 
council and his office was abolished and he served as trustee. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14267 

Mr. Kennedy. He is head of the national warehouse division. So he 
has a number of jobs. 

Senator Curtis. Did he have any convictions ? 

Mr. Moran. No, sir. He did do some time in the city jail for con- 
tempt during a grand-jury investigation for failure to produce books. 
That is the only time that I know of. 

Senator Curtis. He has been arrested a number of times. 

Mr. Moran. Yes, he has been arrested. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank Captain Morgan, 
who has been extremely helpful during the course of all our investiga- 
tions. The chief of police in St. Louis, Jeremiah O'Connell, Mr. 
Chairman, has been very helpful, and also the chief of detectives, 
James Chapman. We received as much cooperation from the St. Louis 
Police Department as we have from any other group in the United 
States. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much, Captain. I think you have 
made a very fine contribution to our record. 

Mr. Moran. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Lew Farrell. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, will you be sworn. You do solemnly 
swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee 
will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Farrell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEW FARRELL 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Farrell. My name is Lew Farrell. I live at 1115 Caulder Ave- 
nue, Des Moines, Iowa. I am now unemployed. 

The Chairman. You waive counsel, Mr. Farrell? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What was your former employment ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer, and under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert my 
privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, I hand you a document here and ask 
you if you received the original of it. It is a carbon copy of the sub- 
pena, a duplicate of the subpena served upon you, and ask you to ex- 
amine that and state if you received the original and if it was served 
on you. 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. The return on that subpena shows it was served on 
the 21st day of August ; is that correct? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The subpena may be printed in the record at this 
point. 



14268 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The subpena is as follows :) 

United States of Amebica 
Congress of the United States 

To Lew Fakrell, Des Moines, Ioica, Greeting: 

Pursuant to lawful authority, you are hereby commanded to appear before the 
Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management 
Field of the Senate of the United States forthwith at their committee room 101 
Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C, then and there to testify what you 
may know relative to the subject matters under consideration by said commit- 
tee and produce your personal financial records for the years January 1, 1948 
to date, including records of all bank accounts, open or closed, bank statements, 
cancelled checks, check stubs, deposit slips, records of loans, investment records, 
safety deposit records, records of all businesses in which you have or have had 
an interest and all other records relating to your personal financial affairs. 

Hereof fail not, as you will answer your default under the pains and penalties 
in such cases made and provided. 

To to serve and return. 

Given under my hand, by order of the committee, this 21st day of August, in 
the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and fifty eight. 

John McClellan, 
Chairman, Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor 
or Management Field. 

The Chairman. The subpena calls you directly to produce your 
personal financial records for the years January 1, 1948, to date, in- 
cluding records of all bank accounts, open or closed, bank statements, 
canceled checks, check stubs, deposit slips, records of loans, invest- 
ment records, safety-deposit records, records of all businesses in which 
you have or have had an interest, and all other records relating to your 
personal financial affairs. Have you brought your records in obedi- 
ence to the subpena, Mr. Farrell ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. You have them present ? 

Mr. Farrell. I do. 

The Chairman. Are you ready to deliver them to the committee? 

Mr. Farrell. No. 

The Chairman. You are ordered to deliver them to the committee 
in obedience to the subpena. 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer, and 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert 
my privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, have you brought all the records and 
documents called for by the subpena ? Have you brought them with 
you? 

Mr. Farrell. Whatever you asked for. 

The Chairman. I said all of them. Have you brought all of them ? 
Do you have them here with you now ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes ; I do. 

The Chairman. That is all right. That is all that is covered by the 
subpena ; you have them with you ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes. 

The Chairman. Will you show us a bundle of these, please, sir ? I 
may say that all I am trying to do is ascertain whether what you say 
now is correct ; that you have complied with the subpena by producing 
them. Now I want to inquire as to where they are so that I may know 
that your testimony with respect to having produced them is correct. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14269 

Mr. Farrell. I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the 
question I will be forced to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Well, you are ordered and directed to exhibit the 
records in bulk, at least, so that the committee can determine whether 
you have actually complied, as you say you have, with the terms of 
the subpena. 

Mr. Farrell. I decline on my constitutional rights. 

Senator Curtis. Where are they now? Are they in this hearing 
room ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Will you show them to us ? 

Mr. Farrell. They are in this suitcase. 

Senator Curtis. Show us how many you have. 

Mr. Farrell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. I have no way of determining what is in that suit- 
case. I don't know whether they are records or not. You swear they 
are. Having sworn they are, the Chair, with the approval of the com- 
mittee, orders and directs you to open the suitcase and expose the 
records which you have brought. I am not at this time ordering and 
directing you to turn them over to the committee, but I am ordering 
and directing you to expose them to the committee for observation so 
that we can determine whether you have, in fact, complied with the 
subpena. 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time. 

The Chairman. You do not have counsel here. But the question is 
now whether you have actually produced the records that you were 
ordered to do. You say you have them all in a little briefcase here. 
Give us a picture of that briefcase. Set it up so we can see how big 
it is. 

Mr. Farrell. Here it is, underneath the table. 

The Chairman. You say that is all the records that you have 
brought ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. In compliance with this subpena. 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Will you open the suitcase, grip, bag, or whatever 
it is, and expose the contents of it so that the committee may see them ? 

Mr. Farrell. Senator, years ago when I was asked to bring my 
records in here, and then I was advised that I waived my immunity. 
Therefore, I decline as this time imder my constitutional rights. 

The Chairman., This committee was not in existence years ago. 
I don't know. The committee does not know. The point is I don't 
know whether 

Mr. Farrell. You have records to show years back that I was 
asked to bring my records here. 

The Chairman. Will you wait just a minute. I don't know, the 
committee does not know, and I cannot determine by looking at the 
suitcase what is in it. Now, you have sworn that there are records 
in it. I am asking you to simply open and expose it to the com- 
mittee so that we may know that it does contain records. 

Mr. Farrell. Senator, I brought the suitcase. I don't have any 
way of opening up the suitcase because I don't have the keys. 

The Chairman. I think you are placing yourself in contempt of 
the Senate. I am not trying to get a contempt charge against you, 



14270 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

but I can't tell, and no one else can, whether you are complying, 
whether you have complied with this subpena with respect to pro- 
ducing your records. 

Mr. Farrell. Your records show there 

The Chairman. My record does not show what is in that bag you 
have brought. I am trying to find out and this committee wants to 
know whether that contains the records that you say you brought in 
response to this subpena. 

Mr. Farrell. I brought the records in response to the subpena. 

The Chairman. I am going to order and direct you, with the ap- 
proval of the committee, now to open that grip, that briefcase, what- 
ever you term it, in which you say the records are, and expose the 
records, so that we may see them in bulk. 

Mr. Farrell. I decline. 

The Chairman. All right. That order stands throughout the day, 
throughout the time you remain here. I want to say to you very 
frankly that I think you are placing yourself in contempt of the 
Senate. You don't have counsel. You may be smarter than any 
lawyer, I don't know, but I am giving you warning, and upon your 
continuing to decline I will have no other alternative except recom- 
mending that the committee cite you for contempt of the United 
States Senate. You understand that ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. You may remain here 

Senator Curtis. I would like to ask, over how long a period of 
time do these records pertain ? 

Mr. Farrell. You asked me to bring my records from 1940 up 
until the present day. 

Senator Curtis. You did that? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. How heavy is that bag? 

Mr. Farrell. It is not too heavy. I don't have too many records. 

Senator Curtis. Were some of your transactions in cash ? 

Mr. Farrell. I don't have too many transactions. 

Senator Curtis. What is your business ? 

Mr. Farrell. At the present time I am unemployed. 

Senator Curtis. What has been your business ? 

Mr. Farrell. I have been in the beer business, beer distributorship. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever been in business in Omaha? 

Mr. Farrell. No, sir, I have not. 

Senator Curtis. You have been over there a few times ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir, I have been over there. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Barney Baker ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I press 
my privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Farrell. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Barney Baker's father-in-law ? 

Mr. Farrell. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Senator Curtis. Why would that incriminate you to know those 
people ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14271 

Mr. Farrell. Why? Because the spacemen that you fellows re- 
ceive your information from is without foundation, sprinkled with 
imagination. In other words, where you get your information from. 

Senator Curtis. Now, your businesses have been lawful, have 
they? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir, every one. 

Senator Curtis. Why don't you at least let us see what records 
you brought, if they are all lawful transactions? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectively decline at this time to answer, and 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert 
by privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Now, I contend that records of lawful trans- 
actions could not incriminate anybody and you have stated under 
oath that these were lawful transactions. 

Mr. Farrell. At one time I was told the same thing and then they 
claimed I waived my immunity. That word "immunity" sounds bad. 

Senator Curtis. When did that happen? What committee sub- 
penaed you ? 

Mr. Farrell. Years back. 

Senator Curtis. A committee of the Senate ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Who was the chairman of it ? 

Mr. Farrell. That fellow with the raccoon hat, what was his name ? 

Senator Curtis. Senator Kef auver. Were you ever in Chicago ? 

Mr. Farrell. I was born there. 

Senator Curtis. Did you know Al Capone ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert my 
privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. But all your transactions have been legal, you say ? 

Mr. Farrell. All of them. 

Senator Curtis. You are placing yourself directly in contempt be- 
cause you say every transaction was legal and therefore they could not 
possibly incriminate you and therefore you are defying the commit- 
tee in not showing them. 

The Chairman. You said we got our information from spacemen 
who had an imagination, I believe, is that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. That is right. 

The Chairman. I will tell you what you can do. You can relieve 
a lot of our imagination right now if you just open that grip. We will 
dispel it right there. 

Mr. Farrell. There is a story. The spacemen gave you imagination 
that there is something in the grip that is wrong. I am telling you 
that isn't right. 

(At this point, the following members are present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. I think you could prove it, if you would open it ; 
do you want to open it ? 

Mr. Farrell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You will remain here during the rest of the day. 
You are under a continuing subpena. You will be recalled for further 
questioning. 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 



14272 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. In the meantime, you will hold yourself subject 
to call. 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12:42 p. m. a recess was taken, to reconvene at 2 
p. m. of the same day. The following members were present at the 
taking of the recess: Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the reconvening of the committee, the following members were 
present : Senators McClellan, and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. James Ford. 

The Chairman. Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence 
you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Ford. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES FORD 

The Chairman. State you name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please, sir. 

Mr. Ford. My name is James M. Ford. I live at 6400 Cabanne Ave- 
nue, St. Louis, Mo. I am not working at the present time. 

The Chairman. You waive counsel, Mr. Ford ? 

Mr. Ford. I got no counsel. 

The Chaiman. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Ford. I got no counsel. 

The Chairman. I say, do you waive counsel ? 

Mr. Ford. I guess so. 

The Chairman. What is your former employment, Mr. Ford? 

Mr. Ford. Well, at one time I used to be a chauffeur. 

The Chairman. A what? 

Mr. Ford. A chauffeur. And with the Teamsters. 

The Chairman. All right, Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Ford, you were a Teamster Union official ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir, at one time. 

Mr. Kennedy. For how long ? 

Mr. Ford. About 14 or 15 years. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you a business agent for local 600 ? 

Mr. Ford. I was, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Local 600 of the Teamsters. This was during the 
1940*s? Is that right? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I was business agent from 1938 up until about 1946. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, during the 1940's, at least part of the 1940's? 

Mr. Ford. Business agent for 600, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the largest local, is that correct? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That local was considered to be too big and was 
broken up by the international, is that correct ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was broken up into locals 600, 632, and local 682? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14273 

Mr. Kennedy. Three locals ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The international sent a man by the name of 
Theorin? 

Mr. Ford. Harold Theorin and Mr. Flynn came down there, Tom 
Flynn. 

Mr. Kennedy. T-h-e-o-r-i-n ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Tom Flynn came? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Theorin is in jail at the present time, is he? 

Mr. Ford. I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe he is in for not paying his taxes. 

Mr. Ford. I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. You became, then, secretary-treasurer of local 632 ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir, I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you remained as secretary-treasurer until what 
time? 1950? 

Mr. Ford. 1950. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then you left 632 ? 

Mr. Ford. No, I was given instructions from Mr. Harold Theorin at 
that time, he was international trustee, with a form letter by the inter- 
national, that I was requested to resign. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why were you requested to resign ? 

Mr. Ford. I was given no just cause for why I was requested to 
resign. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they go through your books and records ? 

Mr. Ford. They did, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they find any money missing ? 

Mr. Ford. They found 6 cents short, and I had given that out of my 
pocket. 

Mr. Kennedy. But there wasn't any other reason ? 

Mr. Ford. They didn't give me no other reason. 

Mr. Kennedy. They presented a letter for you to sign, saying you 
resigned. 

Mr. Ford. Kequesting me to resign. 

Mr. Kennedy. And why did you sign the letter ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I guess I signed it because they requested me to 
resign. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you didn't have to sign the letter, did you ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I was instructed to sign it, or else. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I was told that by Theorin. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was representing the international ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had they moved in on a number of different locals 
there in the St. Louis area ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, at that time, I guess they did. They affiliated them 
all into different locals then. I was out of the picture then. I don't 
know what actually was taken after that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you continue to work as a teamster ? 

Mr. Ford. I couldn't get a job as a teamster nowhere. 

Mr. Kennedy. Even after that ? 



14274 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Ford. After that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Even after you resigned ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of jobs did you try to get ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I tried to get teamsters, driving truck, and every 
place I would go they would tell me "Have you got a book?" And I 
would tell them "Yes, I got a book" and they would tell me "Well, 
we will call you a little later on." But that was all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever go into any other local of the 
Teamsters ? 

Mr. Ford. Then I transferred to 682. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you transfer to 682 ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I think that was around 1952. Around 1952, 
somewhere. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was running that local ? 

Mr. Ford. At that time, Mr. Higgins was running the local. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is his first name ? 

Mr. Ford. Pete. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he removed ? 

Mr. Ford. He was the president of that local at that time. 

Mr. Kennedy. 1952? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. W x as he removed as an officer later on ? 

Mr. Ford. I heard he was, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was local 682 put in trusteeship ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir, it was. 

Mr. Kennedy. What time ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, after I was out of the picture. I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. All right. Then did you have any difficulties in 
local 682? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I couldn't get a job, so I asked Mr. Higgins if he 
could put me to work somewhere. So he give me a job driving a dump 
truck at one of the housing projects. 

Then I worked at one of them for about a couple of months, 3 months, 
I think it was, and went to one of the meetings and there seemed to be 
some difficulty in one of these meetings. That was after it was put in 
trusteeship. Mr. Higgins kind of accused Mr. Gibbons of having 
some kind of affiliation with the Communist movement. 

Mr. Kennedy. With the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

And Mr. Gibbons strictly objected to it, and explained that he never 
did belong to it and never did intend to belong to it, and he never had 
any work in regard with the Communist movement for anything at 
all. So one argument led to another, and one fellow by the name of — 
well, anyhow, a fight started. In this fight, somebody got kicked 
around real good. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was that ? 

Mr. Ford. I don't know the member's name who got kicked around. 
I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you kick him around ? 

Mr. Ford. I wasn't even in the fray at all. I was sitting back on my 
stool back there when it all started. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you raise some questions with Mr. Gibbons at 
that time ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14275 

Mr. Ford. At that time I did. I think it was brought up on the floor 
at that time in regards to having separate meetings for each group, 
and I told them then off of the floor, I said "Harold, I think the inter- 
national requested us to have one meeting for all the rank and file 
members of local 600 at least once a month." 

Mr. Kennedy. What he was doing was breaking down the meetings 
into various groups ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you felt that all the membership should get 
together and discuss whatever issue or point they needed to discuss, 
all in one group, is that right ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. That this was a disadvantage for the membership 
to be broken up in various meetings ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. They could not all get together, and if they opposed 
the leadership, they could not make their opposition known, is that 
right? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You raised a question at the meeting about this ? 

Mr. Ford. I did, but there was objection to it, and I was out of 
order, and I sat down. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you and Higgins were raising questions, is that 
right? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was a meeting of your group ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was 1953 ; was it not ? 

Mr. Ford. 1953. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you decide that you would go to the next meeting 
of the union ? 

Mr. Ford. The following month they had another meeting with a 
group of agitating drivers. That is the ones that drive for the concrete 
trucks. They belonged to 682 the same as I did, so I figured, well, if 
they belonged to it, and they were a member of local 682, my card was 
the same as theirs, I was eligible to go to that meeting. But it seemed 
like my eligibility did not last very long because no more than I hit the 
door I was asked to show my book, and I showed my book, and some- 
body took a swing at me and then I wound up in a hospital. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you show your book to ? 

Mr. Ford. Mr. Walla. 

Mr. Kennedy. Walla? W-a-1-l-a? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Walla's position ? 

Mr. Ford. He was president of the local at that time. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was when it was under trusteeship to Mr. 
Gibbons? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And he was running the local ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. He would not let you in ? 

Mr. Ford. He told me, he said, "Jim, I don't think they will let you 
in there." I said, "Gene, I got a book the same as you have, and I am 
eligible to go in there." 



14276 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Finally, before he got done talking to me, somebody took a swing at 
me, and then the fray started. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened then ? 

Mr. Ford. I wound up in a hospital. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did other people take swings at you ? 

Mr. Ford. There was so many popping me in the head I didn't know 
how to turn around. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to you, other than ending in the hos- 
pital ? You broke your nose ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I had a broken nose, a split cheek, knocked all my 
lower teeth out, busted three of my ribs, and punctured my lung. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then they threw you over the railing ? 

Mr. Ford. Threw me over the railing on the sidewalk and let me lay 
there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then somebody took you to the hospital ? 

Mr. Ford. The police come and got me and took me to the hospital. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there people present that were not members 
of local 682? 

Mr. Ford. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. There were outsiders there ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes. There were bound to be, because a lot of the fel- 
lows there were my friends and would not have done that to me, I 
think. 

Mr. Kennedy. These were outsiders that came in ? 

Mr. Ford. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. The people that hit you, did you recognize them ? 

Mr. Ford. I couldn't recognize any of them. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were not from local 682 ? 

Mr. Ford. I am pretty sure they were not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you see anybody from local 405, the taxicab 
local? 

Mr. Ford. I could not identify anybody. 

Mr. Kennedy. Joe Bommarito ? 

Mr. Ford. Joe might have been there, but I could not identify him 
hitting me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he there ? 

Mr. Ford. He was there, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is from local 405 ; is he not ? 

Mr. Ford. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never identified anybody that hit you ? 

Mr. Ford. I couldn't identify nobody. 

Senator Curtis. I would like to ask you this: Do you think this 
trouble that ended in your being beaten so severely, that the main 
cause of it was you raising the question of Communist connection 
or activity or at least sympathy ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I couldn't say that was the main cause of it. I 
don't know what the cause of it was. 

Senator Curtis. Well, in your own mind, do you know of anything 
else 

Mr. Ford. Well, they say I was charged, according to the executive 
board where they brought me before, disturbance in a meeting. 

Senator Curtis. Had you disturbed the meeting ? 

Mr. Ford. I didn't do a thing, but I was charged with that. 

Senator Curtis. Who was running the meeting ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14277 

Mr. Ford. Mr. Walla at that time. He was president. 

Senator Curtis. Was Mr. Gibbons around there ? 

Mr. Ford. I don't know. I did not see him. 

(At this point, Senator McClellan withdrew from the hearing 
room. ) 

Senator Curtis. The union followed pretty much Mr. Gibbons' 
directions ? 

Mr. Ford. I couldn't say that. 

Senator Curtis. At any rate, you were out of sympathy with what 
was going on, and you wanted to ask some questions, and you ended 
up getting beaten up ? 

Mr. Ford. You are right. 

Senator Curtis. You are satisfied that this reason you got beaten 
up was because you questioned some things, and if that had not hap- 
pened, you probably would not have been beaten up ? 

Mr. Ford. I could not actually say that was the cause of it. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know of anything else that caused it ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, they say I disturbed the meeting. 

Senator Curtis. But you didn't did you ? 

Mr. Ford. I didn't. So I don't know what else could have hap- 
pened, what it was for. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tell me this : Did you go to work after you got out 
of the hospital then ? 

Mr. Ford. I couldn't work. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why not ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I couldn't work for at least 6 months after I got 
out of the hospital on account of my ribs and my lung. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about after that ? 

Mr. Ford. After that, I got jobs as a laborer. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why didn't you get jobs as a driver? 

Mr. Ford. I couldn't get jobs as a driver because they took my affili- 
ation away from me, my card away from me. 

I didn't belong to the Teamsters no more. 

(At this point, Senator McClellan entered the hearing room.) 

Senator Curtis. Why couldn't you get a job even though you did 
not belong to the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Ford. Everywhere I would go they would ask me if I had a 
book and I wouldn't work anyhow without a book. 

Senator Curtis. Who would ask you that ? 

Mr. Ford. Any employer that hires me, they ask do you belong to 
the union and I would have to tell them no. Anyhow I wouldn't have 
worked anyhow. If I wasn't a union member I wouldn't work. 

Senator Curtis. In other words, by taking your membership away 
from you they took your right to work away ? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I couldn't say they took my right to work. I went 
somewhere else to work but I couldn't work as a teamster, that is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were no longer able to get a job as a teamster? 

Mr. Ford. Not as a teamster. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have not been working up to this time ? 

Mr. Ford. I have been working as a laborer and at different other 
crafts. I haven't worked 4 months in the last year. 

Mr. Kennedy. There is no question that the reason you were beaten 
up is the fact that you were an agitator at these meetings and raising 



14278 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

a question at these meetings. There is no question in your mind 
about that? 

Mr. Ford. Maybe that is so. 

Mr. Kennedy. Don't you know that is correct ? 

Mr. Ford. It is a known fact I rejected a lot of stuff they were try- 
ing to put over ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the reason you were beaten up at the time 
you came to this meeting hall ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have never been able to get a job ? 

Mr. Ford. I haven't ; no, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you receive a trial from the Teamsters? 

Mr. Ford. Well, I received a trial, the local executive board first. 
No more than I walked in the room I seen the setup. That is all 
there was to it. They said the exact words, everyone in there, and 
I was guilty. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is the executive board ? 

Mr. Ford. This is the local executive board they had at that time. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that Mr. Walla ? 

Mr. Ford. Mr. Walla was president. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is the one that was involved in your personal 
differences, was he not ? He was involved in the fight originally ? 

Mr. Ford. I never had no personal difference actually with Mr. 
Walla. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was present during the time you got beaten up ? 

Mr. Ford. He was there in the hall at the time I had the fray; 
yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was the one you showed the card to and tried 
to get into the meeting ? 

Mr. Ford. He told me at that time they would not let me in. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is the one and he also sat on the executive board 
that was trying you, isn't that right ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

The Chairman. How long was that after you were beaten up ? 

Mr. Ford. Sir? 

The Chairman. How long was the trial after you were beaten up ? 

Mr. Ford. I would say that was 30 days, maybe 5 or 6 weeks. 

The Chairman. How long did you stay in the hospital? 

Mr. Ford. I was in the hospital 2 weeks and I requested to come 
out of the hospital because that was the city hospital then. I said 
I just as soon be home than laying in the city hospital. 

The Chairman. Were any charges ever filed against you ? 

Mr. Ford. What kind of charges would you say ? 

The Chairman. Did they write you and say you were charged with 
having done this or that ? 

Mr. Ford. The local union did. 

The Chairman. What kind of charges did they prefer ? 

Mr. Ford. Causing a disturbance in the meeting. 

The Chairman. You caused a disturbance ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

The Chairman. Trying to show your card to get in a union meeting 
you were a member of ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14279 

The Chairman. You found others in there that you were quite 
certain were not members ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right, 

The Chairman. They are the ones who beat you up ? 

Mr. Ford. I don't know who beat me up 1 tried to tell you. I never 
seen nobody beat me up. 

The Chairman. At any rate they not only beat you up and sent 
you to the hospital but they expelled you from the union ? 

Mr. Ford. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is of some interest, Mr. Chairman, as we have 
discussed over the period of the past few weeks the fact that Mr. 
Hoffa and the rest of the Teamsters hierarchy have not taken any 
action against other individuals in the Teamsters who would seem at 
least on the surface to have performed more heinous crimes than this 
gentleman ; for instance, taking $25,000 of union funds to make a pay- 
off to a judge. 

That is all. 

The Chairman. This is in keeping with the pattern of the testi- 
mony we have had about this union all the way through. Any 
other questions ? 

Thank you very much, Mr. Ford. You may stand aside. Call the 
next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Mitchell. 

The Chairman. AVill you be sworn, sir ? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence, given before this Senate 
select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF OLDRON A. MITCHELL 

The Chairman. Be seated. State your name, place of residence, 
your business or occupation. 

Mr. Mitchell. My name is Oldron A. Mitchell. I live at 3958 
Lexington Avenue. 

The Chairman. What town ? 

Mr. Mitchell. St. Louis, Mo. I am at the present time managing 
and running a barbershop. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You waive counsel, do 
you? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy, you may proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Mitchell, you were a member of Teamster Local 
405? 

Mr. Mitchell. I was a member of Teamster 405, 682, and 600. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were with 405 when it was under the trustee- 
ship of Harold Gibbons, is that right? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were driving a taxicab at that time ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Mitchell, you have been arrested a number of 
times, have you, and spent some time in jail? 



14280 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was prior to the time that you went with local 
405? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, local 405, the Yellow Cab Co., went out on 
strike, did it not ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That strike started November 30, 1953 ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you join a group of individuals from that local 
and have meetings periodically with them ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the purpose of your group that was 
organized ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I had two jobs at that time with the local. I was 
taking up money at Laclede Cab from 2 o'clock in the afternoon until 
12 o'clock at night. After 12 o'clock I run a scout car. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was a scout car ? 

Mr. Mitchell. A scout car was patrolling the city, mostly pa- 
trolling the northwest part of St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you patrolling for ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Watching Yellow cabs to see where they were going, 
what they were doing, and so forth. 

Mr. Kennedy. What would you do when you saw a Yellow cab ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, my intentions were to get them off the street. 

Mr. Kennedy. How would you go about getting them off the street? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, any manner we could get them off. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many of you were there that were doing this 
kind of work ? 

Mr. Mitchell. There were approximately 3 or 4 carloads at night 
after 12. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a number of people that you carried 
around in your car ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was this group organized by ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Bommarito. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you saw a Yellow cab you would run it off 
the road ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Run it off the road, wreck it, or anything that we 
could possibly do. 

Mr. Kennedy. This group that was patrolling the streets after 
midnight ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. There were 3 or 4 of you out every night, is that 
right? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you have a meeting of this group each day? 

Mr. Mitchell. Ordinarily after we got through patrolling we 
would go into the union office at 1127 Payne. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell me some of the other people who 
were in this group ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Joseph Bommarito, Poole. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is John Poole ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14281 

Mr. Mitchell. John Poole. JoeFerrara. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is F-e-r-r-a-r-a ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right, And Sparky. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is Harold Sparks ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Harold Sparks. 

Mr. Kennedy. Nick Eboli ? 

Mr. Mitchell. There are quite a number of men in that group that 
I would recognize. 

Mr. Kennedy. Ben Saltzman? 

Mr. Mitchell. Ben Saltzman at that time was not in the group 
that was on patrol. He wasn't at that particular time that I speak 
of here, of these particular men, Ben Saltzman was not with this 
particular group. However, he was at the office at the time. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, were there any union officials who would meet 
with you in connection with the work you were doing? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, they would. Pete Saffo, the gentleman that 
was sent to prison from St. Louis for bribery. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is Lou Berra ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Lou Berra. Another gentleman, I forget his name, 
he looks a lot like Lou Berra, about the same weight as Lou Berra. 

Mr. Kennedy. How about Mr. Kavner ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Kavner? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was there also ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever see Mr. Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did any of these union officials give you any in- 
structions as to keeping the Yellow cabs off the street ? 

Mr. Mitchell. They all did. Any meeting that was held they 
said there were too many cabs going on the street and to get them 
off. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Harold Gibbons ever discuss this matter 
with your group ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I discussed the matter with Mr. Gibbons after we 
had wrecked a cab out on Folsom Avenue. 

Mr. Kennedy. I will go into that later. We will come to that. 
But did he ever give you any general instructions about keeping the 
cabs off the street? 

Mr. Mitchell. At meetings, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. At that meeting ? What did he say to you ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Gibbons, Pete Saffo, Kavner, most all of them 
recommended to keep the cabs off the street. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there damage done to these cabs by your group ? 

Mr. Mitchell. By my group there was not any cab attacked. We 
did run one one night and turned off after we thought the police was 
following. 

Mr. Kennedy. You ran after one and turned off? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know a cabdriver by the name of Leon 
Smith? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 10 



14282 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. He was a Yellow Cab driver? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are you aware of the fact that his cab was smashed ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was while he was carrying the passenger's bags 
into the house? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The cab was smashed and the windshield was 
broken, is that right? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever know who was responsible for that? 

Mr. Mitchell. Bommarito and Joe Ferrara. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you know that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Through them telling us after a patrol. 

Mr. Kennedy. How about Alvin Mercer, who was also a Yellow 
Cab driver ? Did you hear about him ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir, more or less, hearsay. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to him ? 

Mr. Mitchell. His cab was wrecked and he was beat up. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you hear who was responsible for that? 

Mr. Mitchell. The business agent at that time and another one 
or two. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you remember who that was? 

Mr. Mitchell. Ben Saltzman I believe was the business agent at 
that time. This was more or less discussed after a patrol. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Paul Herzwurm, who was a Yellow 
Cab driver ? Was he beaten ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were you told was responsible for that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Saltzman was responsible for that. He was 
talking about it, expecting to be arrested. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now around December 5, 1953, was there a meeting 
of a group to discuss having a girl decoy go out and get a cab ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why was that felt to be necessary ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, they wanted to put the cab in a special dis- 
trict, so that was taken up at the union headquarters. We had just 
come off a patrol and I was hanging around there at the time, just hang- 
ing around, you might say, the hall. So the discussions came up 
about the cars and so forth, we didn't have the right cars, enough 
cars to do the job, so Mr. Poole got a lady, he knew a lady he could 
get. 

(At this point, the following members were present : Senators 
McClelland and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was this discussed with ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, I was in the outer office, myself, and it was 
discussed between Pete Saffo, the business agent, and Bommarito, 
and others. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Poole? 

Mr. Mitchell. And Poole, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who do you mean as a business agent ? Who would 
that be? 

Mr. Mitchell. That would have been Saltzman. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was Richard Kavner there also ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14283 

Mr. Mitchell. Kichard Kavner and Pete Saffo. It was in the in- 
side office. 

Mr. Kennedy. They went in there. Then did they come out and 
tell you what the plan was ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the plan, that Poole was going to get 
hold of a girl ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. She would go down and get a taxi and bring it to 
a certain spot, is that right? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were to bring your automobile? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they were also going to rent a car ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And there was going to be even a third car which 
would come along? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. A girl was obtained ? Poole got a girl by the name 
of Mary Lou Bledsoe ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe so ; that was her name. 

Mr. Kennedy. And a man by the name of Joseph Ferrara went 
along with her. 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was one of this group ? 

Mr. Mitchell. We picked Joe Ferrara up at the hotel and they 
continued on then and picked up the girl. We waited at the hotel 
while they got the girl and came back to the hotel. Then we went 
from there to Folsom, and Ferrara and the girl went down at the 
union station, picked the cab, went out on Folsom. 

Mr. Kennedy. So they came out on Folsom Avenue, is that right, 
the girl and Ferrara ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. When they got out there, did the three carloads of 
your group get out and stop the cab ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do with the cab then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I pulled in front of the cab, and Ferrara and the 
girl got out. They started to cross a lot. There was three carloads 
of us. There was three carloads of men around, with the exception 
of the drivers, around the car, and they were trying to turn it over. I 
tried to get my car out before they turned it over. In the meantime, 
we heard the police sirens. So when we heard the police sirens, they 
wasn't making very much success at turning the car over so Joseph 
Bommarito he said he hurt his back or something. 

Mr. Kennedy. Trying to turn the car over ? 

Mr. Mitchell. So after he said that, some of the boys grabbed the 
snow chains out of my car and beat out the windows and then a few 
of them jumped in my car. I took one carload away and came back 
for the second load. At that time, by the time I had got back to get 
the second load of men away, the police were there. There is a saloon 
right up from where this occurred, so I stopped at the saloon and went 
in and had a beer. I came back out and I picked up some young 



14284 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

fellow that did not even belong to the union that was with us. He 
and I, as far as I know, was the only ones that was not picked up. 

Mr. Kennedy. Everybody else was arrested ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe so. I don't know for sure. 

Mr. Kennedy. Miss Bledsoe made a statement to the police, did she ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. But she refused, ultimately, to testify? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe she did. 

Mr. Kennedy. So nobody was prosecuted in this case, is that right ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe so, I don't remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you go back to the union hall then? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. I went back and then he found out that there 
were some that had been arrested. Poole had my overcoat or 
topcoat, and he was arrested, and I went down there to pick up my 
topcoat and that is when I foimd out that he was arrested. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you discuss this with Harold Gibbons at all? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, not for a few days later, after that. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about your automobile ? Were you given any 
instructions about your automobile ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I was given instructions to keep my automobile 
away from there due to the fact that my car was seen at the scene 
of the crime. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Gibbons, for one, and most all of them around 
the office told me to keep away from there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any conversations subsequent to 
that ? Would you tell us what happened then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, after the men were all arrested, with the 
exception of me and this other kid, he was under age, he was ap- 
proximately 18 or 19 years old, he could not drive a cab, he was too 
young — and why he was with us, I don't know — anyway, I told Mr. 
Gibbons after that that I would not, under no condition, work with 
a bunch of men again. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why didn't you want to work with a bunch of men ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, all of them had been caught but me. I didn't 
want to go to prison. We will put it that way. So I just told him 
I would be a lone wolf and work by myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. O. K. Tell us what happened. 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, it was agreed that I should work by myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. So did you work by yourself then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, after, I think it was, the next day, I was off 
from my collecting, I had the day off, so I was walking up Pine 
Street not far from the union hall and I met Mr. Gibbons. We set 
up the deal on the automobile that was shoved in the river. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you set that deal up ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, I was supposed to meet someone at the Mis- 
souri Athletic Club. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you arrange this ? How was it arranged ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Between Mr. Gibbons and I. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was anyone else present ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No. Mr. Gibbons had come across the street with Mr. 
Kavner and maybe an attorney and a couple of other men. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14285 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you arrange ? 

Mr. Mitchell. We arranged that 1 should pick up the cab at the 
Missouri Athletic Club. I told him I would take care of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. How was he going to get the cab to the Missouri Ath- 
letic Club? 

Mr. Mitchell. I didn't 

Mr. Kennedy. How were you going to get the cab to the Missouri 
Athletic Club? 

Mr. Mitchell. Some lady brought it there. The arrangements was 
that someone was to decoy the cab to the Missouri Athletic Club, send 
the driver in, and I would take the car from there. 

Mr. Kennedy. These are the plans you made with Mr. Gibbons? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did that happen, then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir, it did happen. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the driver go inside ? 

Mr. Mitchell. The driver went inside, and when the driver went 
inside I took the cab. The young lady that was in the cab I let out in 
front of the bus terminal. As soon as she got out and I saw her safely 
across the street, I took the cab and run it in the river. 

Senator Curtis. How did you do that ? You didn't stay in it ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Tell us how it happened ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I went down over Broadway to Delmar, back from 
Delmar to Lucas, down the hill at Lucas Avenue, and build up the 
momentum as much as I could in the car, jumped out of the car at the 
last street before you hit the levee. The car went in the river. 

Senator Curtis. Who was the woman decoy; do you know? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, I don't. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever see her before ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I never saw her before and never saw her afterward, 
as far as I know. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know who the driver was ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Why was this war being carried on with the Yellow 
Cab? 

To get them to join your union ? 

Mr. Mitchell. It was to get them to settle the strike. We were on 
strike. 

Senator Curtis. Did the owners of any other cab companies assist 
in this harassment of the Yellow Cab ? 

Mr. Mitchell. As far as I know, no. 

Senator Curtis. In various organization drives, and so on, were 
owner-drivers compelled to join the union, some one who owned their 
own cab, do you know ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Owner-drivers are compelled, in fact, you have to 
pay your union dues when you pay your monthly proration to the com- 
pany. Otherwise, you don't work. 

Senator Curtis. Even though you own your own cab and you are 
your own boss ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. Who paid all of this expense of this scout car pa- 
trol that harassed these drivers after midnight ? 



14286 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, I was furnished gasoline by the union, and I 
was given $35 a week compensation to just help me along. 

Senator Curtis. Who paid then to help these men defend themselves 
when they were picked up ? 

Mr. Mitchell. The union said that they would protect any man 
that got in trouble. 

Senator Curtis. Who, for the union, said that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Gibbons. All of those business agents said that. 

Senator Curtis. These Yellow Cabs that you were driving off of the 
street, and one of you put in the river, and so on, were any of their driv- 
ers ever injured at any time ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. There were several of them beat up. Very 
badly. 

Senator Curtis. How would they be beaten up ? 

Mr. Mitchell. With men that did it. 

Senator Curtis. More than one man ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Oh, yes. There was always 3 or 4. 

Senator Curtis. You never took one man against one man ? 

Mr. Mitchell. On one occasion, I believe there was one man against 
one man. 

Senator Curtis. Did they use clubs or weapons or any kind ? 

Mr. Mitchell. They used anything they could get their hands on. 

Senator Curtis. What, for instance? 

Mr. Mitchell. For instance, they used baseball bats. 

Senator Curtis. Car tools ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Car tools. 

Senator Curtis. Were any of these drivers critically and severely in- 
jured that you know of? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe there was several of them. 

Senator Curtis. That was generally known by everybody engaged 
in the activity? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. And it was known by Mr. Kavner and Mr. Gibbons 
and the other union officials ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Very much so, sir. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

The Chairman. Mr. Langenbacher, will you come forward, please ? 

May I ask you, do you know Mr. Langenbacher? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You have had some conferences with him ? Have 
you been interviewed by him at different times ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is so. 

The Chairman. Did you finally tell him where he might find this car 
in the river ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I told, him, yes, sir, where he would find the car. 

The Chairman. Will you be sworn ? Do you solemnly swear that 
the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. I do. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14287 

TESTIMONY OF IKWIN LANGENBACHER 

The Chairman. State your name, your residence, and your business 
or occupation. 

Mr. Langenbacher. Irwin Langenbacher, Hyattsville, Md., assist- 
ant counsel of this committee. 

The Chairman. You have been employed by the committee for some 
time? 

Mr. Langenbacher. About 14 or 15 months. 

The Chairman. Did you interview the witness, Mr. Mitchell, who 
is now on the stand ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Acting on the information he gave you, did you, 
with the assistance of the St. Louis police, or did they with your assist- 
ance and the information you gave them, which you obtained from this 
witness, locate the car that Mr. Mitchell says he drove in the river? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Y r es, sir. I had some hints previously as to 
where it was, and finally he told me where it was. I then told the 
police. 

The Chairman. Of St. Louis ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Of St. Louis, Captain Moran. He agreed to 
hire a diver. We had the Coast Guard probe around until they 
hooked on. We hooked the wrong car first and pulled it out. It had 
a body in it. 

The Chairman. It had a body in it ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Yes, sir. So then we probed around some 
more and hooked on to it and pulled it out. 

The Chairman. Were you present when it was pulled out? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Yes. 

The Chairman. Were you present when identification was made 
of it? 

Mr. Langenbacher. I was. 

The Chairman. I will ask you to identify these four pictures, 
please. 

(Photographs handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Langenbacher. I identify each of these pictures. They were 
made in my presence shortly after the cab was pulled out. Mr. 
Mitchell had told me that it was Yellow Cab No. 3 that was run into 
the river, and one of the pictures indicates that it was No. 3 that was 
pulled out. 

The Chairman. How long after it was pulled out before the pic- 
tures were made ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Well, they were made a few minutes apart. 
I would say they had all been made within 1 hour after the cab was 
pulled out. The cab was full of dirt and it took some time for the 
firemen to wash the dirt off and out of the cab before the pictures 
were made. 

The Chairman. The pictures will be made exhibit No. 77, in bulk. 

(The documents referred to were marked ''Exhibit No. 77'' for 
reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 



14288 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF OLDRON A. MITCHELL— Resumed 

The Chairman. Present the pictures to the witness, particularly 
the one that shows cab No. 3. 



(The photographs were handed to the witness.) 
The Chairman. J 



Mr. Mitchell, see if you can identify that cab as 
the one you have been testifying about. 

Mr. Mitchell. Sir, it is a little different, according to this picture, 
of when it went in, when I sent it in there. That fender was not 
marked up on it. Well, it was not scarred up like it is here. 

The Chairman. It has been in there for how many years ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Since 1956, 1 believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. 1953. 

Mr. Mitchell. 1953. 

The Chairman. And you had told Mr. Langenbacher exactly where 
you drove it into the river ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you have any doubts that is the same car ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I don't doubt it at all, sir. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? 

Senator Curtis. Do you know anything about the car that had the 
body in it ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Mr. Langenbacher, was that a cab too? 

Mr. Langenbacher. No, sir. That was a late model Oldsmobile 
station wagon. It had only been in there 3 or 4 months. It was just 
by accident. When we went fishing, we did not know what we were 
going to catch. We happened to hook onto that one first. When we 
pulled it out, we saw it was the wrong car. So a couple of days later 
we got the right one. 

The Chairman. So that first one you pulled out presented another 
unsolved crime for the police ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. No, the police know pretty well the conditions 
there. Apparently the man committed suicide. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do after you dumped the cab in the 
river ? What did you do then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I walked over to the Black & White Cab Co., called 
a cab, took a cab uptown to about 8th and Olive, and then I walked 
over by the union hall, and one of the stewards was going into the 
union hall and I told him, I said, "Tell them that No. 3 don't exist 
anymore." 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who the steward was ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No. I would if I saw him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any further discussions about the 
taxi? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You didn't discuss it any more ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was an injunction issued against the union 
during the course of the strike? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Gibbons tell you anything about that? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14289 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. Mr. Gibbons said there was an injunction 
and that he had to order us back to work, but if we went back to work, 
we were scabs. 

Mr. Kennedy. You spoke about Bommarito hurting his back dur- 
ing the time he tried to turn the other taxicab over; is that correct? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he treated at union expense for the injury to 
his back ? 

Mr. Mitchell. He told me he was being treated by the union be- 
cause he didn't have money to do it himself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he also put on the payroll of the union? 

Mr. Mitchell. A little later, yes, he was. 

Mr. Kennedy. As a trainee ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any question raised over the fact he was 
on the payroll by the membership ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, we raised that question several times in union 
hall. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the answer ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, the answer was that Bommarito had did all 
this for the union and that he thought he should draw pay for it. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Saltzman ? After he was arrested was 
he also kept on the union payroll ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe he was, yes, sir. He told me he was 
anyway. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know of any work he did for the union, 405 ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Not after he was taken — Mr. Gibbons decided to 
put another business agent in his place called Rudolph, so after that 
Eudolph had an assistant 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, he was kept on the payroll for a couple of 
years ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have some testimony here regarding Mr. Ford's 
being beaten up. Do you know anything about that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Will you tell us what you know about it. 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, there were several of us at the union hall at 
the time. Mr. Gibbons said he wanted volunteers to go out at Forest 
Park. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is Forest Park ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is the union hall for local 682. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he want you to go out there for? 

Mr. Mitchell. To keep Mr. Ford from going in the hall. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why did he want that done ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I presume he wanted to get rid of him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say you should be paid for attending the 
meeting ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. So did you go over ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many of you went over ? 

Mr. Mitchell. About 3 or 4 carloads of us went over there. 

Mr. Kennedy. All from local 405 ? 



14290 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Mitchell. Some of them may have been from other locals, but 
most of them were from 405. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were they the same people you were talking about 
here ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Bommarito, Ferrara, Lloyd Young, Joe Bova. 

Mr. Kennedy. John Poole? 

Mr. Mitchell. Poole, I believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. Harold Sparks ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Harold Sparks rode in my car. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tony and Joe Capraro ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Joe Capraro in my car. 

Mr. Kennedy. Saltzman ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Ben Saltzman. He didn't ride in my car, though. 

Mr. Kennedy. You all went over to the local. Where did you go 
once you got there ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I went right on into the hall. 

Mr. Kennedy. You went into the hall ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that Mr. Walla, Gene Walla's local ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you talk to him at all ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I spoke to him as I went into the door. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say anything about what you should do? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, he told me. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Shortly after that Ford came in, so a bunch of us 
gathered around, and firsts started flying, and I think Mr. Walla's was 
the first fist that hit him. So just how many there was in on it, it is 
hard to say. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did Mr. Walla say your job was? Did he 
explain to you what you were supposed to do over there ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, to get rid of Ford, get him out of the hall. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get him out of the hall ? 

Mr. Mitchell. When he came we did, yes. When he came to the 
door he didn't know what hit him. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was thrown out of the hall ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get paid for that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I got $35. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know whether the others got paid ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I heard they got $25. 

The Chairman. You got $35 for beating this fellow up, keeping 
him out of the union hall ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I didn't beat him up. I didn't even get in one lick. 

The Chairman. You got paid $35 for being present ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I got $35 for being in the fun. 

The Chairman. Did you give any part of that to anyone else? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Were you supposed to keep all of it ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I did. 

The Chairman. Well, were you supposed to ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Then they paid the others individually just as 
they paid you ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14291 

Mr. Mitchell. I presume. I didn't stay around. I took off as soon 
as I got mine. 

The Chairman. When did you get yours ? 

Mr. Mitchell. From Mr. Walla. 

The Chairman. The president of the local ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Right after you beat the fellow up ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right, sir. 

The Chairman. You got your pay and left ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 

The Chairman. Did those people that came with you leave with 
you? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. I told them that I was going to leave early. 

The Chairman. You got your job done and left early ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 

The Chairman. How much was the total cost to get Mr. Ford beat 
up that night ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I really don't know, sir. About 3 or 4 carloads of 
them I know. 

The Chairman. You were sent over from another local to go over 
there and beat up this man ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 

The Chairman. They did not keep you out of the hall, did they? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, they have tried to several times. 

The Chairman. I am talking about this night. 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that the way the union is run, by force and vio- 
lence rather than by the right to vote and the right to speak ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Has that been your experience generally with the 
Teamster Union locals ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Since Mr. Harold Gibbons has taken over, yes. 

The Chairman. I see. Ever since he took over that has been the 
policy? 

Mr. Mitchell. That has been the policy. 

The Chairman. That has been the rule that you follow ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 

The Chairman. How much do you get for dumping a car in the 
river? 

Mr. Mitchell. I got my regular $35 a week. 

The Chairman. $35 a week for that? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Let me ask you now. Was all of this violence 
going on that you testify to with Mr. Gibbons' full knowledge ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir, I would say so. 

The Chairman. When you went back to the union hall after your 
tour of patrolling, would you report what you had been doing? 

Mr. Mitchell. We would more or less discuss it. It wasn't exactly 
a report. 

The Chairman. In other words, it is not possible that Mr. Gibbons 
knew nothing about it. You know he knew what was going on? 

Mr. Mitchell. Oh, yes, he knows what is going on in his union. 

The Chairman. I would not doubt that ; and you are sure he knew 
what was going on at that time ? 



14292 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Were you present in the hearing room, Mr. Mitchell 
when Mr. Ford testified today ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. You heard him describe his injuries ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. His teeth being knocked out, his nose broken, his 
lungs punctured, and so on. From what you know about it, do you 
have an opinion as to whether or not it would be true that his injuries 
would amount to that much ? 

Mr. Mitchell. My opinion of Mr. Ford's case was that it wasn't 
what he said to Harold or anything, it was strictly to get him out of 
the union because he was a power in 682. He was a power. He might 
have been able to swing that union over. They wanted him out of 
that union. 

Senator Curtis. He wanted a clean, properly run union ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. I worked under Mr. Ford and Mr. 
Ford has represented me and he probably wouldn't even recognize me 
today. 

Senator Curtis. I am talking now about the extent of his injuries. 
Do you think they were as bad as he described ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I think so. 

Senator Curtis. Now, did Barney Baker have anything to do with 
this dumping the cab in the river or making suggestions with refer- 
ence to it ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Did he know about it ? 

Mr. Micthell. I don't remember whether he was even in town or 
not. I imagine he was ; I don't know. 

Senator Curtis. But he would be around there quite a little? 

Mr. Mitchell. He was around the union hall quite often. 

Senator Curtis. What was his job supposed to be? 

Mr. Mitchell. Organizer. 

Senator Curtis. What particular activities was he good at in or- 
ganizing? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, pretty good at pushing people around — big 
enough. 

Senator Curtis. He was one of the strong-arm boys? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you told to do if you were arrested? 

Mr. Mitchell. We were told to give our name and our address, 
and that was all. 

Mr. Kennedy. "Who told you that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Gibbons. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was going to provide the attorney? Were 
you told about that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. The union would provide the attorney. 

Mr. Kennedy. And your bond ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Bond ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. The union would provide that, also ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14293 

Mr. Kennedy. You weren't to give any further information other 
than your name ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know of a memorandum that was prepared 
by the attorney on the fifth amendment, taking the fith amendment? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't know anything about the circulation of 
the memorandum during that period of time ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No ; I don't. 

Senator Curtis. Who were the attorneys that defended you in such 
cases? 

Mr. Mitchell. I really don't know, sir. I didn't go around the 
city hall investigating it. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were told if you answered one question you 
would have to answer them all, and that would be a problem for 
you? 

Mr. Mitchell. No ; I wasn't told that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have testified as to what you were told ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't get along with your people now, as I un- 
derstand it ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Let us say I have been more or less bucking Mr. 
Gibbons for quite a spell. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you also been kicked out of the union ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No ; not that I know of. I asked the business agent. 
I said, "Say, you sent me a copy that I was not supposed to be tried. 
Then I heard that you was going to try me again," and I said, "What 
happened to that trial?" Mr. Bommarito said that I refused to take 
the letters, or something, and that they never did try me. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were the charges against you ? Do you have 
them there ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir ; I believe so. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had been talking a lot at meetings ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Oh, I used to give them hell at all the meetings. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, the charges against you were violation of the 
oath of loyalty to the local and the international ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I believe they are more to blame than I am for that, 
sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are not guilty ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Not guilty. 

Mr. Kennedy. Gross disloyalty or conduct unbecoming a member. 
What about that one ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I could be guilty of something like that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Secession or fostering the same. You were guilty 
of secession or fostering the same ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, I was in a strike in 1956, a wildcat strike. 
Mr. Gibbons said that I should go ; he sent me a letter informing me 
that I should go back to work. My boss never had told me that I 
had to go back to work, so I never went back to work. About a month 
afterward, Mr. Gibbons said I would never drive a cab — Bommarito 
told me that I would never drive a cab in the city of St. Louis again. 



14294 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I went up and paid my dues after the strike. After everybody had 
gone back to work, I went up and paid my dues. I sent the book up 
to Mr. Gibbons, informing Mr. Gibbons that they had just accepted 
my dues and that I would go back to work. So Mr. Gibbons 
found 

Mr. Kennedy. You were accused of secession or fostering same. 
The fourth one is abuse of fellow members and officers by written or 
oral communication. 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, I sent Mr. Gibbons' letter back to him, in- 
forming him that I would go back to work when I pleased. 

Mr. Kennedy. The fifth charge against you is activities which tend 
to bring the local or the interational into disrepute. 

Mr. Mitchell. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. This had nothing to do, of course, with your driving 
the cab into the river. These were things that you had done since 
then, is that right, in opposition to Mr. Gibbons? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. There were no charges brought against you for 
doing any of these acts of violence ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Dumping the cab into the river? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was since then, since you turned on this group and 
they turned on you ; is that right ? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. The next one is disobedience to the regulations and 
rules, mandates, and decrees of the local, or of the officers of the inter- 
national. The last one is such other acts and conduct which shall be 
considered inconsistent with the duties, obligations, and fealty to a 
member of a trade union, and for violation of sound trade union 
principles. 

Mr. Mitchell. I don't think there is a sound trade union principle 
about local 405 or any other union that Harold Gibbons has anythmg 
to do with. 

Mr. Kennedy. Once again, Mr. Chairman, these charges made 
against this witness are interesting in view of the charges that have 
not been made against all the other people that we have been discuss- 
ing over a period of the past year and a half, including Mr. Hoffa. 

The Chairman. It seems as long as you are a criminal, you are in 
good standing. When you cease to be, when you begin to challenge 
something, charges are preferred against you. Is that about the way 
it operates ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, Mr. Gibbons — you have to either go along 
with Mr. Gibbons, he is the boss, and he is going to be the boss. If 
you don't go along with him, you just don't exist. 

The Chairman. You don't get a job? 

Mr. Mitchell. He is going to try to get you out of one. 

The Chairman. And get you beat up, too ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, I don't know whether they beat- up me or not. 

The Chairman. They have not yet ? 

Mr. Mitchell. They have not tried it. 

The Chairman. You are not much afraid; are you? 

Mr. Mitchell. If I was, do you think I would be here ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14295 

The Chairman. No, sir; I don't think you would. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were any of them carrying guns during the period 
of time? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were carrying guns? 

Mr. Mitchell. There were their business chiefs, shop stewards, 
and so forth. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of guns were they carrying? 

Mr. Mitchell. They carried a .32 automatic. 

Mr. Kennedy. These are stewards? 

Mr. Mitchell. It is a small gun, a little bigger than a .25. It is 
about one that would fit in your hand. 

Mr. Kennedy. They all had the same kind of guns ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was this, that they were carrying guns? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, they more or less had influence over the boys 
to let them know 

Mr. Kennedy. When were they carrying guns, during what period 
of time? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, one of them showed me his gun after the 
Yellow Cab strike and I was already working at Black and White. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was in 1954, then ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you see any of them carrying guns after that ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes ; I have also saw several of them carrying guns. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you ever threatened in connection with a gun ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes; I have been threatened with a gun. I told 
one of them I would take it away from him and shove it. 

The Chairman. After you told him that, he did not use the gun ? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know who provided them with the guns? 

Mr. Mitchell. They told me they got them from headquarters. 

The Chairman. Headquarters provided the guns for them? 

Mr. Mitchell. That is right. 

The Chairman. Do you know who in headquarters provided the 
gun? 

Mr. Mitchell. Well, they was at one time the Federal Govern- 
ment was investigating or it was brought up in a trial or something 
about 13 guns or something being bought and they could not find out 
who had them. If they had of shook all those shop stewards and 
business agents down they would have found them. 

The Chairman. Were the guns purchased by the imion ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Which headquarters do you refer to ? 

Mr. Mitchell. I refer to 1127 Pine, Mr. Gibbons' stronghold. 

The Chairman. Were the guns provided out of his headquarters? 

Mr. Mitchell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions ? 

Do you have any further use for these documents? 

Mr. Mitchell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. The documents submitted by the witness from 
which the counsel has referred and made interrogation upon, may be 
made exhibit No. 78, in bulk. 



14296 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 78" for ref- 
erence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Joe Bommarito. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bommarito, come forward, please. 

Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give be- 
fore this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH BOMMARITO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BERNARD J. MELLMAN 

The Chairman. Mr. Bommarito, state your name, your place of 
residence, and your business or occupation, please. 

Mr. Bommarito. My name is Joseph Bommarito. I reside at 10131 
Farrington Drive, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. And your occupation, please, sir? 

Mr. Bommarito. At this time, I decline to answer. I am taking 
the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Do you have counsel ? 

Mr. Bommarito. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Mellman. I am Bernard J. Mellman, 408 Olive Street, St. 
Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are business agent for local 405, are you not? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the basis of taking the fifth 
amendment. 

The Chairman. Is that a Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer. 

The Chairman. I think we can establish it. I don't know whether 
you are doing anything, only reflecting upon yourself, when you 
decline to answer whether the union is a Teamsters Union, if you 
know. Is it ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I take it that it is. I don't really know. 

The Chairman. You think it is ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I think it is. 

The Chairman. Don't you know that it is ? 

Mr. Bommarito. No. 

The Chairman. Sir? 

Mr. Bommarito. I don't know, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you a member of it ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the basis of taking the 
fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. You have answered me that you don't know. If 
you do know, then I think you are committing perjury. 

Now I am asking you definitely if you know. 

Mr. Bommarito. I don't think that is a big secret that there is such 
a thing as a Teamsters local. 

The Chairman. I don't know whether it is a secret or not. I am 
asking you. 

Mr. Bommarito. What is the question ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14297 

The Chairman. Read the question to him, Mr. Reporter. 
(The pending question was read by the reporter, as requested.) 
Mr. Bommarito. If I know what ? 

The Chairman. If you know whether local 405, is a Teamsters 
Union. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 
Mr. Bommarito. Yes, it is. 

The Chairman. All right. Do you belong to it '. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the fifth amendment. 
The Chairman. You better say it a little plainer now. You de- 
cline to answer what ? 
Mr. Bommarito. On the basis that it may incriminate me. 

The Chairman. On the basis 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds that it may 
tend to incriminate me. 
The Chairman. It may tend to incriminate you ? 
Mr. Bommarito. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Does it have that kind of a reputation? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bommarito. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Let me ask you : Do you honestly believe that if 
you gave a truthful answer to the question of whether you belong to 
this local 405, that you say is a Teamsters Union, do you honestly 
believe that a truthful answer to that question might tend to in- 
criminate you? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 
Mr. Bommarito. Yes, I do. 

Senator Curtis. Where were you born, Mr. Bommarito? 
Mr. Bommarito. Right here in the city of St. Louis. 
Senator Curtis. How old are you ? 
Mr. Bommarito. 52 years of age. 
Senator Curtis. Where did you go to school ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 
Mr. Bommarito. Patrick Henry. 
Senator Curtis. That is a high school ? 
Mr. Bommarito. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Where did you go to high school ? 
Mr. Bommarito. Central High. 
Senator Curtis. Did you graduate? 
Mr. Bommarito. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. What was the first job you had after you got out 
of high school? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. What were you doing just before you went to 
work for the Teamsters? 

Mr. Bommarito. The same thing, I decline to answer. 
(The witness conferred with his cousel.) 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. How long have you worked for the Teamsters ? 

21243— 50— pt. 38 11 



14298 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever been arrested ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever been convicted of any offense? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again decline to answer on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Dick Kavner? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Barney Baker ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline on the grounds it may tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know Jesse Farrell, over in Des Moines? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer; it may tend to incriminate 
me. 

The Chairman. Do you realize that when you decline to answer 
questions, such as how long have you worked for the union, that you 
cast reflection upon the people that you presumably are representing ? 
Do you realize what you are doing to the cause of unionism, to the 
unionism movement in this country ? 

You prefer charges against a fellow for doing things unbecoming 
and bringing disrepute upon the union. Do you know, can you think 
of anything you can do that will come nearer bringing disrepute 
upon honest, decent unionism than to come up here and take the fifth 
amendment on a question of how long have you been working for 
the union? Do you realize you are trying to give the impression to 
everyone who hears your testimony, who reads it, that there is some- 
thing about unionism that is degrading, that one must be ashamed 
of, and if he admits having anything to do with it, it might incrimi- 
nate him ? Is that the way you want to leave this record ? 

I asked you a question. 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. You are leaving it that way insofar as you are 
concerned. If people get any different impression about it, they will 
have to get it from some other source. They could not get any dif- 
ferent impression from your testimony. 

Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bommarito, you are now business agent for 
local 405, which is in trusteeship under Mr. Harold Gibbons, isn't 
that right? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you were appointed to this position by Mr. 
Harold Gibbons? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer for it may tend to incriminate 
me. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14299 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you are now and have been a close 
associate of Joe Costello, Lou Shoulders, Jr., and at times of Barney 
Baker? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. We had the information that in December of 1953 
there was an attempt to turn over a taxicab and that you injured your 
back in the course of that. 

Is that correct? Did you? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer. It may tend to incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And after you injured your back, it was arranged 
through Mr. Harold Gibbons and the other union officials that your 
hospital bills and other bills would be taken care of. 

Is that right? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer for it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isnt' it a fact that you did go to the hospital and that 
you were incapacitated for approximately 6 or 7 months, and that your 
hospital bills were taken care of by the local ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer for it may tend to incriminate 
me. 

The Chairman. I present to you a file, No. 3333, from Faith Hos- 

Eital, 3300 North Kingshighway, St. Louis, Mo. It purports to be the 
le of Joseph Bommarito, admitted to the hospital, it shows, on the 
5th of December 1953. 

Will you examine this file and state if that is the hospital record 
upon the time that you were a patient there, please ? 

( The document was handed to the witness. ) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Have you examined the documents presented to 
you? 

Mr. Bommarito. Yes ; I have. 

The Chairman. Do you recognize them ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer. It may tend to incriminate 
me. 

The Chairman. Could it possibly incriminate you for having your 
back treated at a hospital ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. How much did the union pay you for your back- 
ache ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Well, I think we are going to prove it. If you will 
not divest the knowledge I think we will be able to give you the infor- 
mation so if you are asked about it again you will be able to answer 
pretty accurately. 

Let this hospital record be made exhibit No. 79. 

(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 79" for reference 
and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. The hospital records show he went to the hospital 
for a fracture of the 12th vertebra. Did you fracture that turning the 
car over ? 



143C0 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was not when you were beating somebody up with 
6 or 12 other people; it was when you were turning the automobile 
over? 

Mr. Bommarito. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you started receiving money from the union 
for this fine act ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. In connection with this may I call a witness ? 

The Chairman. What is this witness' position now ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He is a business agent for local 405 which is now 
under trusteeship, and the trustee is Mr. Harold Gibbons. He runs 
the local. 

The Chairman. Mr. Harold Gibbons has the authority to dis- 
charge you, does he ? 

Mr. Bommarito. Is that a question, sir ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. You were not elected by the members of the local 
to the position you now hold ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. In other words, if Mr. Gibbons is unhappy about 
the quality of leadership and service that you provide in the union 
he could fire you before the sun goes down, could he not ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I would like to inquire of the staff 
if they know who placed this local under the trusteeship ? Who ap- 
pointed the trustee ? 

Mr. Kennedy. The international is the group that places the local 
under trusteeship. It has been under trusteeship for a long period of 
time, since 1953. 

Senator Curtis. Would that be Mr. Beck or Mr. Flynn % 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Beck was international president. Tom Flynn 
was out there cleaning up the locals in Saint Louis. That is when he 
brought Barney Baker out there to assist him, to clean out the locals, 
and then he placed a number of these locals in trusteeship, including 
local 405. 

Senator Curtis. I don't understand the term "clean them up." 

Mr. Kennedy. Clean up in the Teamsters style. 

The Chairman. Let us have the other witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Eickmeyer has already been sworn. 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. We have had the testimony that the attempt to turn 
over the car and the wrecking of the car occurred in December 1953 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do we find any cash payments then to Mr. Bom- 
marito in December 1953 ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14301 

Mr. Eickmeyek. Yes, sir. During December of 1953 he received 
four $125 cash payments for weekly expenses. 

The Chairman. For what ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Weekly expenses. That was a total of $500 he 
received in December 1953. That was charged to strike expense. 

The Chairman. Strike expense ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. All right, proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then he had this injury to his back and he had these 
various hospital bills, is that right ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who took care of the hospital bills for him ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. The union paid all of the hospital expenses. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much did that total ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $524.75. 

Mr. Kennedy. During that period of time, that would be from 
December 1953 to June 1954, is that right ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. The hospital bills for that period of time were 
$524.75? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. During that period of time was he also receiving 
money from the union ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. Beginning January the 6th, 1954, 
through June 23, 1954, he received a total of $3,125 in the form of week- 
ly checks for $125 a week. 

The Chairman. Three thousand what ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $3,125 he received. This was charged to staff ex- 
pense. 

The Chairman. Staff expense ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. So during the convalescent period he had this trou- 
ble with his back he was put on the payroll, is that right ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. At $125 a week. So after this difficulty in December 
of 1953 he was promoted and given these additional sums of money, 
is that right ? 

Mr. Eiokemeyer. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. So for a total during the period of December 1953 to 
June of 1954 he received $4,149.75, is that correct ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Out of union funds. 

Mr. Kennedy. Out of union funds. Now all the books and records 
are not available from 405 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. Some back there in 1953, particu- 
larly during this particular strike, are missing. 

Mr. Kennedy. So what we can show and know went to Mr. Bomma- 
rito is $4,149.75, there may be more than that ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. There could be. 

Mr. Kennedy. After June of 1954 was he promoted even to a higher 
post or position? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I believe in June of 1954 he took over the position 
as business agent for a local. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much did he receive then ? 



14302 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Eickmeyer. He was increased to $160 a week. It was still being 
charged to staff expense. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that the way it has remained ? 
Mr. Eickmeyer. That is the way that it remained for a month then 
they changed over and gave him $135 a week salary and then $25 a 
week staff expense which still totaled this $160 a week. 
Mr. Kennedy. He has continued with that ? 
Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now you have received more money than that, 
haven't you, Mr. Bommarito ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. . 

Mr. Kennedy. You made special arrangements to buy an automobile 
from the union ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. The same kind of operation that Herman Kierdorf 
had in Mr. Hoffa's local in Detroit? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. The records show he did buy the automobile from the 
local union ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. In October of 1955 Mr. Bommarito pur- 
chased a 1953 Dodge from the local for $450. I sent away to the Na- 
tional Automobile Dealers Association to find out what the value of 
the automobile was at that time and they said it was worth $1,150 at 
the time. So in his purchase he made approximately $700 profit. 
Mr. Kennedy. Did any other official of the union do the same thing? 
Mr. Eickmeyer. William Rudolph, who I believe was secretary- 
treasurer at that time, also purchased a 1953 Pontiac from the local. 
He also paid $450 for the car. The report from the association was 
that that car at that time was worth $1,265, therefore he made a profit 
of $815 on the purchase. 

Mr. Kennedy. Not only did he make the profit but the union lost 
this amount of money ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. The union lost this amount of money. 
Mr. Kennedy. Is that correct, Mr. Bommarito ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was involved in this strike in 1953 as a taxicab 
driver. Were you actually a taxicab driver Mr. Bommarito, or were 
you just brought in as a toughy to beat people up ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that according to the information we 
Understand that during 1953 you stated that you only had made $6.18 
as a taxicab driver ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds that it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And all the rest of the money came from the union, 
did it? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14303 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you deduct all your hospital bills during 1953 
even though they were paid by the union i 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever given the membership any report as 
to the finances ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever given them any information regard- 
ing the operation of the local ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us whom you received your instructions 
from as to beating these other taxicab drivers up and wrecking these 
automobiles ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did those instructions come from Mr. Harold 
Gibbons ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Richard Kavner ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Pete Saffo ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Mr. Norman Fortner ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. F-o-r-t-n-e-r, do you know him ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is a taxicab owner-operator, is he not ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Have you ever done a decent thing in your life 
that you can talk about ? 

Mr. Bommarito. Is that in the form of a question ? 

The Chairman. That is a question. 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Here is a signed affidavit, signed copy of it by Mr. 
Fortner. 

Mr. Kennedy. The last paragraph, Mr. Chairman, is important. 

The Chairman. This affidavit is an affidavit from Norman S. Fort- 
ner, who says that he is a taxicab owner-operater. He says he was 
a member of Teamsters Local 405 in St. Louis from 1952 to 1957. The 
local refused to accept his dues on September 1956 to November 1957, 
"at which time I was expelled for supporting a strike against local 
405." The full affidavit may be printed in the record. 



14304 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The affidavit is as follows :) 

5702 Clemens Avenue, St. Louis, Mo. 

I, Norman S. Fortner, taxicab owner-operator, voluntarily make this state- 
ment to Irwin Langenbacher who lias identified himself as Assistant Counsel, 
Senate Committee on Labor and Management. I was a member of Teamster 
Local 405 in St. Louis from 1952 to 1957. The local refused to accept my dues 
from September 1956 to November 1957 at which time I was expelled for sup- 
porting a strike against Local 405. 

I owned four taxicabs and was associated with the Black & White Cab Com- 
pany which had a labor contract with Local 405. Beginning on August 18, 1956, 
there was a strike of drivers against Local 405 because Harold J. Gibbons, 
Trustee of the local, required the cab companies to employ colored drivers con- 
trary to the labor contract. The labor contract called for a union shop where- 
under the cab companies were permitted to choose their own drivers who were 
then required to join the union within thirty days. I took my cabs out of 
service for the duration of the strike which lasted about twelve days, and after 
the strike was not permitted by the Black & White Cab Company to place my 
cabs back in service. 

The company explained that my name was on a list of unacceptable persons 
submitted by Local 405. This list contained the names of persons who had 
supported the strike. While I later heard the charges were filed against me 
immediately after the end of the strike, I did not receive a copy of the charges 
until about ten months later in June 1957. Meanwhile, about January 1957, I 
was expelled by the local without notice of the hearing and without being present 
I appealed to Joint Council 13, which reversed the decision and called for a new 
trial. 

I then received notice and was tried about November 1957, at which time I was 
again expelled on the grounds that I was one of the leaders of the strike. Sidney 
Zagri was Chairman of the Trial Board, appointed by Harold Gibbons, although 
he was not a member of Local 405. I immediately appealed my expulsion to 
Joint Council 13, but have received no notice of action taken. 

Between the time of the strike and the date of my expulsion, I offered to pay 
my dues on two occasions but they were refused by Pete Saffo who is Secretary- 
Treasurer of Joint Council 13 and is in charge of Local 405. I turned my cabs 
over to one Herke who owns and operates other cabs, but the union would not 
permit them to be used. They have been idle since the strike, which was over 
sixteen months ago, and I still own three of them. 

In December 1956 I was threatened by Joe Bommarito, business agent of Local 
405, who said he would have me killed for interfering in union affairs. He said 
I would be worked over and no one would ever know who did it. I reported this 
to the police whereupon he was picked up but later released. On one occasion 
before, and on one occasion since this threat, I received telephone calls from 
Bommarito who threatened bodily harm to me and my family. He said he 
would get my little girl on her way home from school and would get my wife 
on her way home from work. 

Norman S. Fortner. 

Sworn to and subscribed before me this 28th day of January 1958. 

Everett: Weast, Notary Public. 
My commission expires February 24, 1961. 

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to read the whole thing but the last 
paragraph is the most important. 

The Chairman. Read all except the first paragraph. 
Mr. Kennedy (reading) : 

I owned four taxicabs and was associated with the Black & White Cab Co. 
which had a labor contract with local 405. Beginning on August 18. 1956, 
there was a strike of drivers against local 405 because Harold J. Gibbons, trustee 
of the local, required the cab companies to employ colored drivers contrary to the 
labor contract. The labor contract called for a union shop whereunder the 
cab companies were permitted to choose their own drivers who were then re- 
quired to join the union within 30 days. 

I took my cabs out of service for the duration of the strike which lasted about 
12 days, and after the strike was not permitted by the Black & White Cab Co. 
to place my cabs back in service. The company explained that my name was on 
a list of unacceptable persons submitted by local 405. This list contained the 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14305 

names of persons who had supported the strike. While I later heard the charges 
were filed against me immediately after the end of the strike, I did not receive 
a copy of the charges until about 10 months later in June 1957. 

Meanwhile, about January 1957 I was expelled by the local without notice 
of the hearing and without being present. I appealed to joint council 13 
which reversed the decision and called for a new trial. I then received notice 
and was tried about November 1957 at which time I was again expelled on the 
grounds that I was one of the leaders of the strike. Sidney Zagri was chairman 
of the trial board, appointed by Harold Gibbons, although he was not a member 
of local 405. I immediately appealed my expulsion to joint council 13 but have 
received no notice of action taken. 

Between the time of the strike and the date of my notice, I offered to pay my 
dues on two occasions but they were refused by Pete Saffo who is secretary- 
treasurer of joint council 13 and is in charge of local 405. I turned my rabs 
over to one Herke who owns and operates other cabs, but the union would not 
permit them to be used. They have been idle since the strike, which was over 
16 months ago and I still own three of them. 

In December 19fi6 I was threatened by Joe Bommarito, business agent of local 
405, who said he would have me killed for interfering in union affairs. He said 
I would be worked over and no one would ever know who did it. I reported 
this to the police whereupon he was picked up but later released. On one oc- 
casion before, and on one occasion since this threat, I received telephone calls 
from Bommarito who threatened bodily harm to me and my family. He said 
he would get my little girl on her way home from school and would get my wife on 
her way home from work. 

Is that correct, Mr. Bommarito ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. You are really pretty good with little girls, are you? 
You can beat them up, Mr. Bommarito ? 

Mr. Bommartto. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about women '. 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it might tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Did Mr. Gibbons know you were going around 
making these threats ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. You reported them to him ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Are you one of the thugs he is using to run this 
union ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. If you could say "No,"' it would not incriminate you. 
You realize that, don't you ? Do you ? 

Mr. Bommarito. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

The Chairman. O. K., you are making the record. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you told that you could get into difficulty and 
the union would stand by you and pay all your legal expenses? 

Mr. Bommarito. I again refuse to answer on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 



14306 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis? 

Senator Curtis. I have no questions. 

The Chairman. You will remain under your present subpena, sub- 
ject to being recalled. Accepting that recognizance you may be 
excused. Do you accept it ? 

Mr. Bommarito. Yes. 

The Chairman. You will be given reasonable notice of the time and 
place where the committee may wish to interrogate you further. 

All right. You may stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Harold Sparks. 

The Chairman. Come forward, Mr. Sparks. 

Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before 
this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Sparks. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD SPARKS 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Sparks. My name is Harold Sparks. I live at 3306 Briar Court 
Drive, Lemay, Mo. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You waive counsel, do 
you? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are 38 years old ? 

The Chairman. Did you give your present occupation ? 

Mr. Sparks. I am unemployed right now. 

The Chairman. What was your last employment ? 

Mr. Sparks. I was a chauffeur, for Black & White Cab Co. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are 38 years old, is that correct ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you have spent some 19 years in reform school 
and prison at various times ? 

Mr. Sparks. I have. 

Mr. Kennedy. During the Yellow Cab strike in December 1953, 
were you a driver-owner for the Mound City Yellow Cab Co. ? 

Mr. Sparks. I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you were a member of local 405 ; is that right? 

Mr. Sparks. I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was under the trusteeship at that time of Mr. 
Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Sparks. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Pete Saffo was the acting secretary-treasurer; 
is that correct? 

Mr. Sparks. That is right, 

Mr. Kennedy. During this period of time, during the period of 
time of the strike, you and a group of you used to meet every day at 
the union headquarters ? 

Mr. Sparks. Would you repeat that question, please ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14307 

Mr. Kennedy. During the period of the strike, you and certain 
others used to meet daily at the union headquarters? 

Mr. Sparks. All the cabdrivers met there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any particular assignment, anything 
that you were supposed to do during this period of time ? 

Mr Sparks. At the time we went on strike, we went down to the 
Yellow Cab Co. and formed a picket line. We walked around the 
Yellow Cab Co. . „ . , x . ., 

Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently was it part of your job to keep the 
Yellow cabs off the street? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, I rode around the streets. 

Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't that part of your job, to keep them on 
the streets? 

Mr. Sfarks. That is right. . 

Mr. Kennedy. And you would run them oft to the side; is that 

right 2 

Mr. Sparks. Well, Mr. Gibbons made it plain that he did not want 
no violence because murder was one thing and getting the cabs off the 
street was another. . _ . , 

Mr. Kennedy. You were supposed to get them oft quietly, is that 
right ? 

Mr. Sparks. That is right, talk to them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Getting them off, would that mean running them off 
to the side of the road without killing anyone ? 

Mr. Sparks. No ; he said to talk to them, and show them where they 
was wrong. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that what you did? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, that ain't what I did. I didn't never run upon no 
Yellow cab. , 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you patrol around ? Did you travel around and 
look for Yellow cabs? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. , 

Mr. Kennedy. You just never found any ; is that right ? 

Mr. Sparks. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. We had some testimony regarding a group that went 
out to wreck a cab where Mr. Bommarito hurt his back. Were you 
present at that? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How come you happened to go out there? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, I was standing around the union hall. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, we went out there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you to go out there? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, I don't remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just got in a car and went out? 

Mr. Sparks. There was so many down there talking, everybody 
wanted to be the chief and there was too many chiefs and not enough 
Indians. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you one of the Indians? 

Mr. Sparks. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. So did you go out there? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Bommarito went out? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 



14308 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Johnny Poole ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Jerry Osborn? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Phil Patriznik? 

Mr. Sparks. I don't know that. 

Mr. Kennedy. P-a-t-r-i-z-n-i-k ? 

Mr. Sparks. Do yon mean Phil Patriznik ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, maybe I do. Was he with you ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was a girl in another automobile, and she 
brought the taxicab up ; is that right ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, I never seen the girl when the cab stopped. 
Somebody got out and run. That is all I know. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Joe Ferrara, he was there with the girl ? Are 
you afraid, Mr. Sparks ? 

Mr. SrARKS. Well, wbudn't you be afraid after reading what you 
are reading in the papers ( 

Mr. Kennedy. Are you afraid \ 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that why you are not testifying freely in these 
matters ? 

Mr. Sparks. I am trying to tell all I know about it. I don't re- 
member too much about it. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you are frightened, aren't you ? 

Mr. Sparks. It has been over 5 years ago since it happened. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why are you so frightened ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, you read in the papers about everybody been 
getting killed, and you don't know whether you are going to get killed 
or not. 

The Chairman. Are you afraid of the Gibbons crowd ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Who are you afraid of ? 

Mr. Sparks. I don't guess I am afraid of anybody. 

The Chairman. You said you were afraid. 

Mr. Sparks. Just inclined to be afraid, that is all. 

The Chairman. Just inclined to be afraid ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Why don't you just tell us the facts about it ? You 
know how they operate, don't you ? 

Mr. Sparks. I couldn't say I know exactly how they operate, because 
I was just a small cog in the wheel. 

The Chairman. I know you were a small cog, but as a small cog you 
could observe some bigger cogs, couldn't you? You did observe the 
bigger cogs, and how they operated in this strike, didn't you ? 

Mr. Sparks. I can't remember all the actions that went on down 
there because there was too many down there. They was all crowding 
around. 

The Chairman. I understand that, but you are afraid because you 
know how they operate. You are afraid of violence against you, aren't 
you ? That is the truth about it, ' 
afraid, so you just as well admit it. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14309 

You show every evidence of it. You said you were afraid. You 
are not afraid unless you are afraid of something or someone. You 
are afraid of what they will do to you ; isn't that the truth ? 

Mr. Sparks. They have no reason to do anything to me. I am not 
in the union no more. 

The Chairman. I know they have no reason, but without rhyme 
or reason, you are still afraid, aren't you? You said wouldn't we 
be afraid, too, and I will say yes, maybe I would be. I don't think 
it is to your discredit if you just state the truth about it, that you are 
afraid. 

Mr. Sparks. Sure I am afraid. 

The Chairman. Afraid of whom, now ? 

Mr. Sparks. From what I read in the papers would make you 
afraid. 

The Chairman. What did you read in the papers that would make 
you afraid ? 

Mr. Sparks. About hoodlums, gangsters. 

The Chairman. And you associate them with that element? 

Mr. Sparks. You don't know what to believe. 

The Chairman. You don't know what to believe. Well, you are 
not afraid of law-abiding citizens, are you ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You are only afraid of those who may resort to 
violence. That is correct, isn't it ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You don't think law abiding citizens will resort 
to violence ? 

Mr. Sparks. I don't think so. 

The Chairman. What is the element that you are afraid of? 

They are in the Teamsters Union, aren't they? 

Mr. Sparks. I don't even know them. I don't even know if they 
are in the Teamsters Union or not. All I know is I have been on 
the strike in 1953, and I tried to do my part to help in the strike. 

The Chairman. Who were your superiors ? Who were giving the 
orders ? 

Mr. Sparks. Like I said, all of them was trying to give orders. 

The Chairman. Who are some of all of them ? 

Mr. Sparks. Cabdrivers. 

The Chairman. Who were some of the officers in the union that 
were giving orders ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, the business agent would tell us to go down one 
place and another one would tell us to go down to another. 

The Chairman. Give us the names of the business agents. 

Mr. Sparks. Rudolph. 

The Chairman. Rudolph who? William Rudolph? 

Mr. Sparks. William Rudolph. 

The Chairman. What was he? 

Mr. Sparks. He was a business agent. 

The Chairman. What other one? 

Mr. Sparks. Saltzman. He was a business agent. 

The Chairman. Who? Saltzman? Who was it that told you to 
go down to that place where the cab came and turn it over? 



14310 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Sparks. They did not nobody tell us, they just said "Come on, 
let's go out and get the Yellow cabs off the street." I did not know 
where he was going. 

The Chairman. What did you do after you got there? 

Mr. Sparks. Me and Poole and Bommarito got in a car, and some 
more got in another car and we went out on Folsom Avenue. 

The Chairman. What happened when you got there ? 

Mr. Sparks. A Yellow cab came up, let some people out, and they 
grabbed him. 

The Chairman. They grabbed what? 

Mr. Sparks. They grabbed the driver. 

The Chairman. Who grabbed the driver ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, all of them was there. I could not tell who 
grabbed him first. 

The Chairman. Did you get ahold of him, too ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, I did not touch him. 

The Chairman. You stood back and watched them gram him. Who 
were some of them that grabbed him? Name one. You were there. 

Mr. Spark. Yes, I was there, but I did not know all of them. 

The Chairman. You knew some of them. Who were those you 
knew that grabbed him? 

Mr. Sparks. I can't remember. I would like to help you, but I 
just can remember. 

The Chairman. You are just scared, aren't you? Isn't this a piti- 
ful thing in this country, with a man like you that comes up here 
and is afraid? I am not saying you are not justified in being afraid, 
but it just points up the amazing shocking incident and how the 
underworld element has infiltrated into some labor organizations, 
the methods they use to carry out their program, and to enforce their 
will by fright, intimidation, and violence. How did that fellow get 
his back hurt out there — Bommarito ? 

Mr. Sparks. I guess he was trying to turn the cab over. 

The Chairman. Did you see him trying to turn it over? 

Mr. SrARKS. I was there. I was helping him. 

The Chairman. You were helping him. You were helping in try- 
ing to turn the cab over, were you not? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Bommarito was helping, too ? 

Mr. Sparks. At the time of the strike 

The Chairman. I am talking about the time you were turning the 
car over. 

Mr. Sparks. That is what I am trying to get to now. 

The Chairman. All right, let's get to it. 

Mr. Sparks. At the time of the strike, when we met down there and 
took the strike vote, we went out to the Yellow Cab garage and walked 
the picket line. Then we came back up to the 1127 Pine,^md we stayed 
around there, and somebody said "I just seen a Yellow cab going down 
the street" and we went out there and he was going to the garage. 

The Chairman. Then what did you do ? 

Mr. Sparks. Then a few days later we went to 1127 Pine and there 
was a bunch around there and they got in a car and went out to wait 
for a Yellow cab. 

The Chairman. Did you go with them ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14311 

The Chairman. Is that the one you are talking about ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The one where you saw the people get out and run ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And that is the one where you helped try to turn 
it over ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And that is the one where Bommarito got his back 
hurt? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. After he got his back hurt, what did you do with 
the cab ? 

Mr. Sparks. I went across the fields. I was running. 

The Chairman. That was when the officers came and the sirens 
sounded ? 

Mr. Sparks. That is right. 

The Chairman. That was when you started running. Prior to start- 
ing running, what had you done to the cab ? 

Mr. Sparks. If I had not seen him coming ? 

The Chairman. No. I say what had happened to the cab in the 
meantime ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, there was chains that broke the windows. 

The Chairman. You took some chains and broke the windows of the 
car? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What else did you do to it ? 

Mr. Sparks. That is all. 

The Chairman. Did you ever get it turned over ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Then you ran when the officers came ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you get caught ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What happened to you after you got caught ? 

Mr. Sparks. I went to jail. 

The Chairman. Who got you out ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, I guess the union got us out. 

The Chairman. How long did you stay in jail until the union got 
you out ? 

Mr. Sparks. I stayed in there about 8 hours. 

The Chairman. About 8 hours. Did it cost you anything? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Union paid the expense of it ? 

Mr. Sparks. I could not rightfully say who paid the expense. 

The Chairman. In other words, you did not pay it ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

The Chairman. How many other cabs did you help turn over or 
stop and run off the street ? 

Mr. Sparks. That is the only one I know of that was turned over. 

The Chairman. Was it turned over? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, but when they had the meeting in — I don't know 
if it was Mr. Gibbons or who it was, he came in and he told them 
drivers not to be hurting none of them Yellow cabdrivers or causing 



14312 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

any violence. But it seems like there was violence regardless of who 
said not to have it. 

The Chairman. We have had other testimony here to the contrary. 
Others present there say they went out to do it and it was all arranged 
for them to do it, and that Gibbons knew all about it. 

Mr. Sparks. Well, I never heard Gibbons say anything. I only 
seem him about once or twice all the time. 

Mr. Kennedy. You said something far different from your af- 
fidavit, Mr. Sparks. 

Mr. Sparks. What? 

Mr. Kennedy. You said something far different from your 
affidavit, 

Mr. Sparks. Well, it has been 5 years ago. I can't remember every- 
thing that went on. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you just filled this affidavit out a few months 
ago. 

Mr. Sparks. When we was down in the union hall, we was told to 
give our name and address if we got in jail. That was all. 

Senator Curtis. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, it was either business agent or one of the drivers. 
I don't remember who it was. 

Senator Curtis. Who was your lawyer when you were picked up ? 

Mr. Sparks. I did not have no lawyer. 

Senator Curtis. Somebody got you out. Was it Schenker? 

Mr. Sparks. Well, a friend of mind got me out one time. 

Senator Curtis. The time they attempted to overturn the car and 
you ran across the field and got caught ? 

Mr. Sparks. After the strike, I was being picked up every other 
day. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. We had Mr. Ford here testifying about being beaten 
up. Did you go over there to that headquarters, that local ? 

Mr. Sparks. I was there. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to go over there ? 

Mr. Sparks. The business agent told us that he needed some men 
out there to keep order, that they were expecting disturbances among 
the members. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that ; William Rudolph ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you supposed to do when you got there ? 

Mr. Sparks. Just stand around and keep order. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were you to report to ? 

Mr. Sparks. We were told by Mr. Walla that we was going to act 
as sergeant at arms and stand at the doors to see that there was no 
trouble. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many of you went over there to keep order? 

Mr. Sparks. I don't know exactly how many. About 12 or 15. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the same group, about the same group, 
that went out to turn the car over ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You could do a lot of different things, you could 
turn a car over and you could also keep order when that was 
necessarv. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14313 

Mr. Sparks. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Jimmy Ford? What happened to 
him ? 

Mr. Sparks. When I turned around he was coming in the door. All 
I heard was somebody holler. I turned around and somebody done 
grab him. That is all I know. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened then ? 

Mr. Sparks. They pulled him outside. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened then ? 

Mr. Sparks. He staggered off down the street, 

Mr. Kennedy. Why was he staggering ? 

Mr. SrARKS. I guess somebody hit him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Don't you know that somebody had hit him ? 

Mr. Sparks. There were so many there I couldn't say who hit him. 

Mr. Kennedy. I am not asking who hit him. You know somebody 
hit him ? 

Mr. Sparks. Somebody hit him. 

Mr. Kennedy. When he was down on the ground they were kicking 
him, too, were they not? 

Mr. Sparks. I didn't see all the kicking. I just seen him get up 
and he started walking down the street. Somebody took him in the 
ear and took him to the hospital, I guess. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Walla speak to you about him when you got 
over there, about not letting him in the room ? 

Mr. Sparks. He never said nothing to me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say anything about Jimmy Ford, that he had 
headed local 682 and he had ambitions to take over again ? You are 
big enough to take care of yourself. Why don't you testify about these 
things like you told us in the affidavit ? Can't you take care of your- 
self? 

Mr. Sparks. Sure I can take care of myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why don't you testify, then ? 

Mr. Sparks. I am doing the best I can. I can't remember 5 years 
back. 

Mr. Kennedy. All I am asking you to do is to tell us what you said 
a few months ago. You said in your affidavit : 

Walla said that Jimmy Ford, who had headed local 682, had ambitions to take 
over again : that if he said anything at the meeting we should grab him and 
Walla would take him out and stomp him. 

Is that correct? 

Mr. Sparks. Something like that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Something like that happened ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can't you take care of yourself, Mr. Sparks ? 

Mr. Sparks. Sure, I can take care of myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why would you be frightened of these people, then ? 

Mr. Sparks. Because I read the newspapers and I don't want noth- 
ing to happen to me. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have the affidavit here, Mr. Chairman. It speaks 
for itself. It is quite different from his testimony. 

The Chairman. Did you sign an affidavit on the 19th of January 
of this year? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

21243 — 59 — pt. 38 12 



14314 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. Will you identify the affidavit you signed, examine 
it and state if that is your signature. Do you identify your affidavit? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Sir? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that affidavit true ? 

Mr. Sparks. It sure is. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. It may be printed in the 
record immediately following the witness' testimony. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Bommarito speak to you or threaten you prior to 
the time you testified here ? 

Mr. Sparks. He never did threaten me, no. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he speak to you before you testified ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. He didn't say anything to you ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he threaten any of your family ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were any of your family threatened before you came 
here? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did anybody speak to your wife about your testi- 
fying? 

Mr. Sparks. I have no family. I only have me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did anybody speak to you, anybody that is close to 
you? 

Mr. Sparks. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. They did not ? 

Mr. Sparks. I called Bommarito on the phone one day and I asked 
him about reinstating me in the cab business. I was kicked out of 
the union by Bommarito only. I said, "A fellow is trying to get me 
to go to Washington and testify on you and get me subpenaed." 

He said, u Yes, I know who it is." He said, "I am going to take care 
of him personally." 

Mr. Kennedy. Who said this ? 

Mr. Sparks. Mr. Bommarito. 

The Chairman. Who was he talking about he was going to take 
care of him ? 

Mr. Sparks. He was talking about Don Cortor. 

Mr. Kennedy. One of the opposition to Mr. Gibbons ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you told if you went to prison you could get 
your bills paid, you would continue on salary ? 

Mr. Sparks. We were told if we went to prison we would draw a 
salary. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much ? 

Mr. Sparks. That our family would not want for nothing. 

Mr. Kennedy. $135 a week ? 

Mr. Sparks. No, not that much. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know how much ? 

Mr. Sparks. $125. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Sparks. Mr. Gibbons. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14315 

The Chairman. Mr. Sparks, you will remain under your present 
subpena, subject to being recalled by the committee for further inter- 
rogation at such time as it may desire to interrogate you further. 
If you are intimidated in any way, if anyone makes any threat against 
you or anything happens to you by reason of the fact that you have 
testified, report it immediately to the committee. Your being under 
subpena would make them in contempt, in my judgment, of the 
United States Senate, and this committee will give you all the pro- 
tection that you possibly need. 

Will you accept that recognizance and agree to reappear at such 
time as we give you reasonable notice % 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That means you do not have to be subpenaed again 
but just notice of the time and place we want to hear you will be 
sufficient. 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You understand that ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I have pointed out to you that we will give you 
all the protection that we can. If anybody molests you, threatens 
you, undertakes to intimidate you, do any violence or harm to you in 
any way, by reason of your testimony here, you report it promptly 
to the committee. 

Will you do so ? 

Mr. Sparks. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

(The affidavit of the witness previously referred to follows:) 

AFFIDAVIT 

St. Louis, Mo. January 19, 1958. 

1. I, Harold S. Sparks, 3306 Briar Court, Lemay, Mo., voluntarily make this 
statement to Irwin Lengenbacher, who has identified himself as assistant counsel, 
United States Senate Committee on Labor and Management. My usual occupa- 
tion is truckdriver and cabdriver, but I am presently unemployed. I am 38 
years of age, and since the age of 8 have served 19 years in prisons and reform 
schools. I am 5 feet 8y 2 inches in height and weight about 200 pounds. 

2. At the time of the Yellow Cab strike in December 1953 I was a driver-owner 
for the Mound City Yellow Cab Co. and was called out on strike with the other 
drivers. I was a member of Teamster Local 405 which was under the trusteeship 
of Harold Gibbons with Pete Saffo as acting secretary-treasurer. Harold Gib- 
bons told us we would get $35 a week during the strike, and we were required to 
meet each morning in a hall we had rented in the basement of the Majestic Hotel, 
where we received our assignments for the day. 

3. They said they needed some men for goons. One morning I was sent to the 
Teamsters Union Hall at 1127 Pine Street and was sitting in the outer office. 
Richard Kavner came out of Gibbons' office and told us not to have any guns 
or knives on us if we were picked up by the police ; that if we were arrested to 
give only our names ; and if we were locked up he would have a bondsman there 
24 hours a day to get us out. Joe Bommarito said let's go, and we all climbed 
into a car. Up to this point I did not know what was going on. With me in 
the car was Bommarito, who had rented the car and was driving, Johnny Poole, 
Jerry Osborn, and Phil Patriznik. Following us in another car was Oldrou 
Mitchell and Mary Lou Bledsoe who is a girl friend of Johnny Poole. Bommarito 
told us that Mitchell was going to pick up Joe Ferrara, a former professional 
fighter, that Ferrara and Miss Bledsoe would hire a cab at Union Station, order 
it to Folsom Avenue, where we would tear it up. When it arrived, we all dashed 
out, the driver ran, and Bommarito and Poole broke out the windows and smashed 
the taxi with tire chains. We were all arrested and indicted except Mitchell and 
Osborn. The Teamsters paid our bond and hired a lawyer. We had a meeting 
at the Teamster Hall before we were scheduled to appear before the Federal 



14316 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

grand jury, and Gibbons told us to give only our names, addresses and occupa- 
tions; that we were to plead the fifth amendment to other questions. He em- 
phasized that if we answered one question we would have to answer them all. 
His lawyer was also present. We all refused to testify and the case was dropped. 

4. Shortly after the Yellow Cab strike I was in the Union Hall and heard Lou 
Berra, who was on loan from Teamsters Local 688, tell Richard Kavner that 
Bommarito had hurt his back trying to turn over the Yellow Cab, that Berra 
had sent Bommarito to the Faith Hospital and would pay his bills, and that 
Berra had put Bommarito on the payroll at $125 a week. When Bommarito came 
out of the hospital he was made a business agent trainee. 

5. One morning at the hall in the Majestic Hotel, Gibbons told William Rudolph, 
business agent, in my presence, that if any of the men wanted to make some extra 
money, they should report to Gene Walla, head of Teamsters Local 682, to help 
keep order at a meeting that night. Rudolph made the announcement, and I 
reported to Walla along with Lloyd Young, Tony and Joe Capraro, Joe Ferrara, 
Johnny Poole, Ben Saltzman, Joe Bova and a man named Smith. Walla said that 
Jimmy Ford, who had headed local 682, had ambitions to take over again, that 
if he said anything at the meeting we should grab him and Walla would take him 
out and stomp him. He told us to stand around the hall in different places. 
I saw Ford coming down the hall and before he reached the meeting hall or said 
anything, Ferrara hit him, Walla grabbed him, dragged him out, kicked him and 
stomped him, caving in his ribs. Walla had told us that we would each be paid 
$20, so about 5 days later I went to his office and told a young man to give me 
$20 and charge it to expenses, which he did. 

6. Shortly after the wildcat strike by drivers against local 405 in August 1956, 
I was in the Union Hall when Joe Costello came in with 2 of his men, 1 of whom 
was named Sam Cucchioni. He asked Pete Saffo to see Gibbons. Saffo took 
them to Gibbons' office, and when they came back the two men had vouchers. 
They presented the vouchers to the cashier and received money. I do not know 
what it was for. 

7. Refore we appeared before the Federal grand jury investigating union 
activities, William Rudolph told us that we would be paid $15 a day for each 
day we appeared. He paid me, as well as Johnny Poole, Phil Patriznik and 
Charlie Licavoli. 

8. I have read the above statement and it is true to the best of my knowledge 
and belief. 

Harold S. Spakks. 

Sworn to and subscribed before me this day of January 1958. 

, Notary Public. 

My commission expires 

The Chairman. The committee will take a 3-minute recess. 

(Thereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Call the next witness, Counsel. 

Mr. Kennedy. Miss Mary Lou Bledsoe. 

Before she testifies, Mr. Chairman, we have a request that no pic- 
tures be made of her by any group, either television or still photog- 
raphers. 

The Chairman. The Chair has been advised of the witness' request. 
If she cooperates with the committee, the request will be granted. 
There will be no pictures made of the witness. There will be no films 
made, no television. 

Come around, please. Will you be sworn ? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this 
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Miss Bledsoe. I do. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14317 

TESTIMONY OF MARY LOTJ BLEDSOE 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please. 

Miss Bledsoe. Mary Lou Bledsoe, 352 North Whittier Street, St. 
Louis, Mo., secretary. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You waive counsel, do you ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes ; I do. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Miss Bledsoe, the address you just gave was your 
address at the time in 1953 ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes ; it was. 

The Chairman. Of course, you have given the committee your pres- 
ent address, have you not ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right ; you may proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Miss Bledsoe, we have had some testimony before 
the committee that you were approached in 1953 at the time that the 
strike was going on in St. Louis to decoy a driver to a certain place 
so that the taxicab could be turned over at that time ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, could you tell us how that came about, who 
approached you, what conversations you had ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. I was approached by a Mr. John Poole, who 
accompanied me to the union hall. There I met a number of other 
taxicab drivers and also several union officials. Plans were made at 
that time 

Mr. Kennedy. Whom did you meet at the hall at that time ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Whom did I meet at the hall ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. Whom did you have the discussions with ? 

Miss Bledsoe. I wasn't formally introduced to them, but I did learn 
later that Mr. Richard Kavner was there, also Mr. Harold Gibbons. 
There were several taxicab drivers. One was Charlie Licavoli, John 
Poole, Joseph Bommarito, a man named Harold Sparks. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you arrived at the union hall, what happened 
then? 

Miss Bledsoe. Thev discussed various plans and ways to go about 
what they had in mind, which was the ultimate destruction of a 
taxicab and to warn the company drivers who were continuing to 
work that this was most unwise. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was present during those discussions? 

Miss Bledsoe. The people that I have just mentioned previously. 

Mr. Kennedy. That included Mr. Harold Gibbons and Mr. Richard 
Kavner ? 

Miss Bledsoe. It did. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were just sitting in on the conversations ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us what happened then ? Was it de- 
cided at that time how you would handle it ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. It was decided at that time that a man would 
accompany me and we would go to Union Station; that there we 



14318 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

would flag one of the working cabs and have him take us to a pre- 
determined destination where the other men that were at the union 
hall at that time would arrive in two cars and block his escape and at 
that time destroy the cab. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was it that was supposed to accompany you ? 

Miss Bledsoe. At that time no decision was made. Later a Joseph 
Ferrara was decided upon and was picked up at the Weston Hotel 
and he did accompany me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who picked him up ? 

Miss Bledsoe. I went along with Mr. Poole and there were several 
other people who accompanied us. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Ferrara was an ex-boxer ; is that right ? 

Miss Bledsoe. I believe so. I don't know, of my own knowledge. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you go to pick up the taxicab ? 

Miss Bledsoe. You mean where did we go to pick up the taxicab 
that was later destroyed ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Miss Bledsoe. At Union Station. 

Mr. Kennedy. The two of you, you and Ferrara, got in the cab? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. You told him the destination ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes; I believe it was 4154 Wilson Avenue. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you go to that place ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes ; we did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us what happened ? 

Miss Bledsoe. When we arrived there, one car came from the 
front and another from the rear and they blocked off the escape of 
the cab. The men jumped out of the cab, and they proceeded to 
break the windows, to wreck the cab. Mr. Ferrera grabbed the cab- 
driver, held him so he could not call for help. The other men opened 
the door and dragged him out. Actually, I don't believe the driver 
was hurt, He was shoved around a bit and roughed up, and then 
told to run. 

Mr. Kennedy. And he took off ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes ; he did. I also believe at that time his glasses 
were broken. 

Mr. Kennedy. What occured after that? 

Miss Bledsoe. Mr. Ferrara and I left the scene of the crime and 
walked a block to a bar and grill. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do there ? Why did you stay at the 
bar and grill? 

Miss Bledsoe. Well, arrangements had been made for another cab, 
Laclede Cab, the same as the one that had taken us at Union Station, to 
meet us there and take us away from the scene of the crime. Actually, 
something went wrong and he did not appear. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you stayed at the bar, the two of you ? 

Miss Bledsoe. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why didn't you try to leave there? 

Miss Bledsoe. Well, frankly, I was so frightened and upset and the 
realization of what had occurred, that I did not know what to do. 
As to why Mr. Ferrera made no suggestions or why he did not attempt 
to leave me, I don't know. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14319 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you arrested there? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes, we were. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then did you make a statement to the police? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you include all these facts to the police? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes ; I did. I did not include the fact that Mr. Gib- 
bons was there. I wasn't asked, and when I realized the sensation it 
had caused because I had mentioned Mr. Kavner's name, I became too 
frightened to mention the other names. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was no question that Mr. Gibbons was present 
when this was done? 

Miss Bledsoe. No, no question at all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ultimately testify at the trial? 

Miss Bledsoe. No; I did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. In general terms, can you tell us why you didn't 
testify? 

Miss Bledsoe. Because I was threatened if I did so. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were threatened? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. In one instance a Mr. Sparks contacted me in 
open court and made a threat. He was later arrested by the police for 
it. I was also threatened by Mr. Poole on several occasions. 

Mr. Kennedy. He called you and your family ; is that right ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. I was warned what would happen to me if I did 
not cooperate. 

Mr. Kennedy. If you cooperated and testified? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe that is all. 

Senator Curtis. Were you paid anything for this? 

Miss Bledsoe. No. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You may stand aside. You 
will remain under your present subpena, subject to being recalled. 
Whenever the committee may desire to further interrogate you, you 
will be given reasonable notice of the time and place. 

Do you accept that cognizance ? 

Miss Bledsoe. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. If anyone threatens you in any way, if anyone 
undertakes to intimidate you or harm you because of any testimony 
you have given here or in any other way in connection with the subject 
matter under inquiry, you will please let the committee know. We 
are going to give you all the protection we can and if anyone molests 
you about this, in my judgment he will be guilty of contempt of the 
Senate, and the committee will act accordingly. 

Thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. John F. Poole. 

The Chairman. Mr. Poole, will you be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this 
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Poole. I do. 



14320 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN FREDERICK POOLE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN 

The Chairman. Be seated. 

State your name, your place of residence, and your business or 
occupation. 

Mr. Poole. John Frederick Poole, 1376 Shawmut Place, St. Louis, 
Mo. I am an automobile salesman. 

The Chairman. You have counsel with you, Mr. Poole ? 

Mr. Poole. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Counsel, identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Mellman. I am Bernard J. "Mellman, 408 Olive Street, St. 
Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Poole, you were in Teamsters Local 405 in 1953 ? 

Mr. Poole. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground the an- 
swer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. The information that we have, Mr. Poole, is that 
you were one member of this goon squad that went around and beat cab 
drivers up and wrecked the cabs. 

Mr. Poole. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground the an- 
swer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And specifically that you were one of those who made 
arrangements to have this automobile wrecked and possibry turned 
over that we had testimony about this afternoon. 

Mr. Poole. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. That you were, during this period of time, taking 
your instructions from Mr. Saffo, Mr. Kavner, and Mr. Gibbons, is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. During this period of time that you were performing 
these acts, were you being paid out of union funds ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were told, were you not, that if you got into 
difficulty, your attorney fees and your bonds would be paid by the 
union ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And according to the witness, Mr. Sparks, he also 
testified that he was told by Mr.' Gibbons that if you went to jail, you 
would continue to draw your salary. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have been arrested a number of times, have vou 
not? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14321 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You served 6 months in the city workhouse during 
1947? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr Kennedy. Yon stole a thousand dollar saving bond and cashed 
it? • . 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have also been arrested for burglary and lar- 
ceny '? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were working during this period of time with 
Licavoli, were you not, and for Bommarito ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us how much money you received? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. The records that are available show that during the 
period of the strike— could I ask Mr. Eickmeyer to testify on how 
much money he received ? 

The Chairman. You may proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. What did the witness Mr. Poole receive during 
December of 1953? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. He received a total of $535 all in cash payments. 
Of this, there were two interesting items. One was a $125 loan which 
was later written off, and another one was $175 expenses O.K.'d by 
Mr. Lou Berra. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Berra was the one that was sent to jail ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Was this man supposed to be working for the 
union at the time ? Was he a teamster, a member of the union ? Do 
you have a record of that ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I have no record of that. 

Mr. Kennedy. This could be listed as strike expense. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. This was charged to strike expense. 

Mr. Kennedy. There were other individuals that were receiving 
strike expense, in addition to the so-called goon squad? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. There were many. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they receive as much as Mr. Poole received ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Most of them did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. They received what, $30 or $35 a week ? 

Mr. Eicmeyer. Usually $30 or $35 a week. They would only have 
received around $100 or so, $150. 



14322 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN FREDERICK POOLE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. During the period of time that you were appearing 
before the grand jury, did you also get paid out of teamsters funds % 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do the records show anything on that ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. He received $40 lost time on one occasion, 
and $20 on another occasion, for lost time due to the trial. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was when he was appearing before the grand 
jury ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Also we have the testimony that you were one of 
those who went over to beat up James Ford, who was causing Mr. 
Walla some difficulty ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get paid $20, $30, or $35 for that ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. "Were you one of those who kicked him when he was 
down and broke his ribs % 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you kick his teeth out ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. Mrs. Watt, will you show the witness this picture 
and see if he can identify it ? 

Did you ever have No. 56998 attached to you any time, anywhere ? 

Mr. Poole. Pardon me, sir ? 

The Chairman. Yes. I say did you ever have No. 56998 attached 
to you anywhere ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. It might refresh your memory. 

Would you show him this photograph, clerk, please, and let him 
see if he can identify it ? 

(The photograph was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Do you identify it ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. Were you sent to prison at that time for some 
crime you committed in connection with the union ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. Have you ever been convicted for a crime commit- 
ted in connection with your union activities ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14323 

The Chairman. Can you give an answer to anything without in- 
criminating yourself? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Do you know of anything that you could answer 
without incriminating yourself 'I 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. Are you proud of that record ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. You are not a bit ashamed, are you ? 

Mr. Poole. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

The Chairman. This just goes to show the extent to which poor, 
honest workingmen in this country are being victimized by crooks, 
thugs, and scoundrels of the lowest order. You may stand aside. 

The committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock in the morning. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 42 p. m., the hearing recessed, to reconvene at 
10 a. in., Wednesday, August 27, 1958. At this point, the following 
were present : Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 27, 1958 

United States Senate, 
Select Committee on Improper Activities 

in the Labor or Management Field, 

Washington, D. C. 

The select committee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to Senate Resolution 
221, agreed to January 29, 1958, in the caucus room, Senate Office 
Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com- 
mittee) presiding. 

Present : Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas ; Senator 
Carl T. Curtis, Republican, Nebraska ; 

Also present : Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Adler- 
man, assistant chief counsel ; Paul Tierney, assistant counsel ; John J. 
McGovern, assistant counsel ; Carmine S. Bellino, accountant ; Pierre 
E. Salinger, investigator; Leo C. Nulty, investigator; James P. Kelly, 
investigator ; Walter J. Sheridan, investigator ; James Mundie, investi- 
gator, Treasury Department; John Flanagan, investigator, GAO; 
Alfred Vitarelli, investigator, GAO ; Ruth Young Watt, chief clerk. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

(Members of the committee present at the convening of the session 
were: Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. The Chair announces that it had been our purpose 
this morning to call as the first witness Mr. Barney Baker ; however, 
we have just received word that Mr. Baker is ill. He had a heart 
attack and entered the hospital this morning. I haven't been able to 
ascertain the seriousness of his condition ; therefore, we will rearrange 
the order of witnesses and proceed without him, hoping that he will 
have a speedy recovery and that he may soon again be available for 
further testimony before the committee. 

All right, Mr. Kennedy, call your first witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. George F. Callahan. 

The Chairman. Mr. Callahan, do you solemnly swear that the evi- 
dence given before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Callahan. I do. 

14325 



14326 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE F. CALLAHAN, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, ELLIOTT W. FINKEL 

The Chairman. Mr. Callahan, state your name, your place of resi- 
dence, and your business or occupation, please. 

Mr. Callahan. My name is George F. Callahan, Jr. My residence 
is 115 Lillian Drive, Pittsburgh 37, Pa. 

The Chairman. You have counsel ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Identify yourself for the record, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Finkel. My name is Elliott W. Finkel, Pittsburgh, Pa. 

The Chairman. Thank you. 

Mr. Callahan, you have previously testified in an executive session of 
this committee ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy, proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are president of the Esco Motor Co. ? 

Mr. Callahan. Exhibitors Service Co., also the Esco Motor Co. 

Mr. Kennedy. It is called Esco Motor Co. ? 

Mr. Callahan. Exhibitors Service is the parent name, and Esco 
Motor Co. is another company, affiliated with it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are they trucking companies ? 

Mr. Callahan. One is a manufacturing sales company, that is 
Esco Motor Co., and the other is a trucking company, Exhibitors 
Service Co. 

Mr. Kennedy. Exhibitors Service transports films and perishable 
goods, is that correct ? 

Mr. Callahan. Magazines and general freight. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many employees do you have ? 

Mr. Callahan. When I was here last time, I think I mentioned a 
figure of 55, and it is closer, and I have checked it since I went back, 
and it is closer to about 46. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many employees do you have that are mem- 
bers of the Teamsters Union, approximately? We don't need it 
exactly. 

Mr. Callahan. Most of our employees. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have two Teamster local unions? 

Mr. Callahan. We have two local Teamster unions, and then we 
have affiliations with a number of other Teamster local unions that 
are located throughout western Pennsylvania and northern West 
Virginia. 

Mr. Kennedy. The two chief locals are local 211 and local 249 
of the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Callahan. That is correct, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And do they each have a separate contract with you ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The employees that are under local 249 receive 
higher wages than those under local 211 or is it the other way around ? 

Mr. Callahan. Just the reverse. 

Mr. Kennedy. Local 211 has higher wages than local 249 ? 

Mr. Callahan. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many are under local 211, approximately ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14327 

Mr. Callahan. Around 25 to 28 under 211 at the present time, and 
3 under local 249. In the past years, that has varied. We have had 
more 249 than we had 211 and vice versa. 

Mr. Kennedy. Has that caused some difficulty in the operation of 
your businsss ? 

Mr. Callahan. Very much. 

Mr. Kennedy. What has been the problem ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, we have a jurisdictional problem, where two 
unions are continually fighting over the work we have to perform. 
One union is chartered to handle newspapers, magazines, and films 
and their charter has been amended to the extent that we are not per- 
mitted to put on their trucks anything that their trucks can carry up to 
their capacity. However ? only one 211 member can make freight 
pickups on a part-time basis, and no 211 members can make any freight 
deliveries locally within the jurisdictional area of local 249. 

Senator Curtis. May I ask a question right there ? Now, both of 
these are Teamster unions ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. And they both belong to the same joint council ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. And they are both subject to the same State and 
international officers ? 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. That is a very cumbersome and inefficient as well as 
unfair situation. 

Mr. Finkel. Would the Senator desire an illustration of how that 
operates ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Finkel. We can give you a description of an instance of how 
it operates. 

Mr. Callahan. Well, for example, if we have two different com- 
modities going to one customer, such as could possibly be chairs and 
magazines, the one union would only be permitted to deliver the one 
item, while the other union would have to deliver the other item. 

Senator Curtis. And while that adds to your cost, eventually it 
has to add to the consuming public's cost or you are going to go out 
of business, isn't it? 

Mr. Callahan. It has hurt us competitively tremendously. 

Senator Curtis. Do your competitors have that same jurisdictional 
difficulty? 

Mr. Callahan. There is no one in our area that has the same prob- 
lem to my knowledge. 

Senator Curtis. How long has this existed ? 

Mr. Callahan. For the past 10 to 12 years, during which time I 
estimate that it has cost our company conservatively better than $1 
million net. 

Senator Curtis. That is not gross business, but that much profit ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. That is all at this point. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is a dispute that exists within the Teamsters 
Union itself? It is not between the Teamsters Union and outside 
unions? 



14328 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Callahan. It is between the two Teamsters Unions themselves 
apparently, and something that we have been unable up to the pres- 
ent time to get resolved. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Callahan, this problem continued to exist 
during 1957 ; is that right ? 

Mr. Callahan. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And during 1957 you had obtained the services ot 
an employee by the name of Edward Weinheimer ? 

Mr. Callahan. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were Mr. Weinheimer's duties and respon- 
sibilities ? 

Mr. Callahan. When Mr. Weinheimer joined our organization, 
he came to us as a solicitor which is the same as salesman in any other 
business. His duties were to secure business. We had formerly 
specialized in pool-car distribution and pool-truck distribution and 
whether it came from local sources or sources in any other city 
throughout the country it was his duty originally to contact them 
and try to develop business. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was hired in January of 1957 ? 

Mr. Callahan. I checked that also, since I have been here, and I 
was told it was January 28. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he also help and assist you in your labor diffi- 
culties which you have described? 

Mr. Callahan. Pie endeavored to, but up to the moment it hasn't 
been of much assistance. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that he was a friend of Mr. 
Barney Baker, of the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Callahan. As time developed, and after he had been with us 
a few months, he said that he had had some previous labor experience 
and possibly he could be of assistance in helping us straighten out 
the problems we were endeavoring to get corrected. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you then of the relationship he had had 
with Barney Baker? 

Mr. Callahan. It was a couple of months after that, I believe, that 
I even knew that he knew Barney Baker. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had you known Barney Baker before then? 

Mr. Callahan. I had never heard his name before that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where had Weinheimer said he had known Barnev 
Baker? 

Mr. Callahan. He didn't say exactly, except that he had known 
him from years back. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Weinheimer, in August of 1957, take a 
trip to Des Moines, Iowa ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was one of the purposes of that trip to pay a visit 
to Mr. Barney Baker? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes; it was. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was in connection with these labor problems 
you were having? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes; it was. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, when he was out in Des Moines, he was stay- 
ing at the Rambler Motel. Did he contact you then from the Rambler 
Motel ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14329 

Mr. Callahan. Yes; he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he request or ask you to send him some money 
at that time? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes; he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say to you? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, I don't recall the exact conversation except 
to the extent that things were going along all right and lie needed 
some money, and he needed expense money, and he asked me if I 
would send him $1,000. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. And that was to be $1,000 in cash; is that correct? 

Mr. Callahan. He asked me that I specifically send him cash ; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. He asked specifically that you send him the cash. 
And you sent it out to him at that time? 

Mr. Callahan. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. You understood that it was in connection with his 
work on these labor troubles? 

Mr. Callahan. I understood that it had something to do with his 
moving around between general circles, plus expenses anyway that 
he wanted to use the money. There was no specific designation made. 

Mr. Kennedy. No; but you understood it was in connection with 
his attempt to solve your labor difficulties? 

Mr. Callahan. I was given to believe that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you to whom he was going to give the 
money ? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. He did not tell you anything about that? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask him at that time what he was going to 
do with the $1,000 ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say ? 

Mr. Callahan. We argued about it some, and he said to trust him. 

Mr. Kennedy. To trust him ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. At a later time did you find out how he had spent the 
$1,000, what he had done with it? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What denominations were the bills ? 

Mr. Callahan. They were 10 $100 bills. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many packages ? How many envelopes ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, according to the young fellow that I sent to 
the post office to mail them, he said it was two. I do not recall specifi- 
cally myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have checked, Mr. Chairman, with the post office 
in connection with the sending out of this money and have found the 
registration numbers. May I call Mr. Sheridan on that? 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Sheridan, come forward. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 13 



14330 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF WALTER J. SHERIDAN— Resumed 

The Chairman. You have been previously sworn ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. You checked with the post office in connection with 
the sending out of the registered letters ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, I did, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. In August of 1957 ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. To Mr. Ed Weinheimer at the Rambler Motel ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What do the records show ? 

Mr. Sheridan. The records of the McKees Rocks, Pa., post office 
show that on August 14, 1957, three packages were sent by Exhibitors 
Service Co., 85 Helen Street, McKees Rocks, Pa., to Edward Wein- 
heimer, at 2701 Southeast 14th Street, Des Moines, Iowa. 

We have been advised that 2701 Southeast 14th Street is the address 
of the Rambler Motel. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE F. CALLAHAN, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, ELLIOTT W. FINKEL— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. You were furnishing him other expense money dur- 
ing this period of time, were you not ? 

Mr. Callahan. I would say nominal expense money ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was a different type of payment from the regu- 
lar payments you had been making to him ? 

Mr. Callahan. I had never previously sent him that kind of money ; 
no, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't it raise a sharp question in your mind where 
the money was going, since it was such a large amount of money ? 

Mr. Callahan. In a way it did ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you pursue the matter to try to find out what he 
did, with it? 

Mr. Callahan. I questioned him about it, and he said he needed it 
for expenses, and did not I have any trust in him ? 

And that is all the satisfaction I could ever get. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it indicated to you then, did he tell you, that 
Mr. Barney Baker would try to assist you in your labor difficulty ? 

Mr. Callahan. I don't recall exactly whether his name was men- 
tioned. I remember asking who was there, and he said "Oh, there are 
lots of people here." 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate to you then, or subsequently, that Mr. 
Baker would try to help you and assist you in your labor troubles ? 

Mr. Callahan. He indicated that. 

Mr. Kennedy. And did Mr. Baker try to assist you in your labor 
problems ? 

Mr. Callahan. Subsequently, I am convinced in my own mind, that 
he did conscientiously. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any conversations with his personally ? 

Mr. Callahan. Not until December 1957. 

Mr. Kennedy. What conversations did you have with him at that 
time? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14331 

Mr. Callahan. Well, he came to Pittsburgh at that time when we 
were on strike, and he said he would do anything and everything that 
he possibly could to get the wheels rolling, and I believe that, based on 
my past experience, he tried to do that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had you sent any more money to Mr. Weinheimer 
between the time that Baker came to Pittsburgh and the $1,000 in 
August ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, I did. I sent him $1,000 in September, I be- 
lieve. I am not certain, because I don't have the records in front of 
me. And I sent him another $1,000 the following month, I believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you send that money to ? 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my recollection, I sent it to the East. 
1 am pretty sure $1,000 went to New York, and I am not certain about 
the third, but I think it went to New York. 

Mr. Kennedy. Each time you sent the money in cash ? 

Mr. Callahan. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Each time in $100 bills ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And each time at Weinheimer's request, is that cor- 
rect? 

Mr. Callahan. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask him what he was doing with the second 
and third packets of $1,000 ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, each time our discussion got a little more 
heated, and I told him I did not want him to commit me unless I had 
some advance knowledge of it on something. He would ask me to 
trust him, and I went along ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he explain to you that he was contacting Barney 
Baker in connection with your labor trouble? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. He spoke to you about Barney Baker, did he 
not? 

Mr. Callahan. Possibly off and on he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say that he was contacting any other 
union officials? 

Mr. Callahan. During that period, none whose name I can recall, 
although I know that he was doing everything and anything that he 
thought might be helpful to us in any way. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to recall Mr. Sheri- 
dan, in connection with one of these other packets of $1,000. 

When did you understand you sent him the second or third $1,000 ? 

Mr. Callahan. I think they were about a month apart, according 
to our records. 

Mr. Kennedy. One was in September and one was in October ? 

Mr. Callahan. According to our records, I think that is right ; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What do the records show? 

Mr. Sheridan. The records show that on September 16, 1957, two 
packages were sent from McKees Rocks, Pa., post office, from ESCO, to 
Mr. Edward F. Weinheimer at the Bellecrest Hotel in Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Weinheimer was staying at the Bellecrest 
Hotel? 



14332 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Sheridan. Mr. Weinheimer was staying at the Bellecrest Hotel 
at that time, and Mr. Baker was also staying at the Bellecrest at that 
time. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were both there at the same time? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do we have any record as to the third packet? 

Mr. Sheridan. The third packet, according to Mr. Callahan r s rec- 
ords, they cashed the third check on October 16, 1957. 

The post office authorities in Pittsburgh and McKees Rocks checked 
the McKees Rocks post office and had checked 37 branch offices of the 
post office in Pittsburgh, and they have no record of anything being 
sent on or about that date. They conclude that the money was not 
sent registered mail in the third instance. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it possible that you gave it to Mr. Weinheimer 
himself in Pittsburgh during that time ? 

Mr. Callahan. I don't recall. 

Mr. Kennedy. The records would seem to indicate also from 
tracing Mr. Weinheimer's activities that he was in Pittsburgh during 
this period of time ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes. 

Mr. Callahan. If I did, I don't recall. It was my recollection that 
I sent it to him, and I don't recall anything differently on it. 

The Chairman. In securing the cash, how did you secure the $1,000 
cash each time you sent it to him ? 

Mr. Callahan. I asked the young fellow who handles our books 
and serves as the assistant secretary of the company, to go to the 
bank and get it. 

The Chairman. What is the young man's name ? 

Mr. Callahan. Mr. Frank M. Lacey. 

The Chairman. I present to you three checks drawn to Mr. 
F. M. Lacey, dated September 18, 1957. The first is dated August 14, 
1957, then dated September 16, 1957, and October 16, 1957, each of 
them in the amount of $1,000, and appearing to have your signature 
issuing these checks on your company. 

Will you examine them and state if those are the checks that you 
issued in order to get the $1,000 cash each time ? 

(The documents were handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my recollection; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. They may be made exhibit No. 80, A, B, and C, in 
the order of their dates. 

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 80, A, B, 
and C" for reference and will be found in the appendix on pp. 14539- 
14541.) 

Mr. Kennedy. On that September check, and the events that 
immediately preceded it and followed it, I would like to ask you if 
this isn't correct. That on September 13, 1957, the union official, 
Cozza, demanded an 8-cent retroactive increase and set a strike date 
for Monday morning, September 16. 

Mr. Callahan. He demanded that plus additional demands at a 
meeting that was attended by my son, Mr. Finkel, and myself. 

He would not give us any leeway whatsoever, and said that unless 
we met his demands we would be on strike Monday morning. When 
we adjourned it was a little after noon on Friday. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14333 

Mr. Kennedy. That was Monday morning, September 16, is that 
correct ? The records show it was September 16. 

Mr. Callahan. I think you have my notes. I made notes of those 
tilings and you have them. I don't know the exact date right offhand, 
but you can check it from the notes that you took. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it September 16, Mr. Sheridan? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct also that Weinheimer checked in to 
the Bellecrest Hotel in Detroit on September 13 ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The same day that the notice was given. Then on 
September 14, do the notes show that Mr. Callahan received a call from 
Weinheimer, from Detroit, that the strike had been called off? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. I was with the attorneys at the time, and 
we had notified their attorneys that if they went through with this, 
we were going to enter an unfair labor charge suit, and immediately 
follow that with a substantial damage suit. I got a call that the strike 
had been called off. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who made that call to you ? 

Mr. Callahan. Weinheimer. 

Mr. Kennedy. From Detroit ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then on September 16, 2 days later, the second check 
for $1,000 was written out and sent in 2 packages in $100 bills to Wein- 
heimer at the Bellecrest Hotel in Detroit, is that correct ? 

Mr. Callahan. That could be so, Mr. Kennedy, but honestly I can- 
not recall. I do not know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that what the records show ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, sir, that is what the records show 

The Chairman. The check shows it was dated the 16th, so obviously 
that is the time you drew out the $1,000 in cash. 

Mr. Callahan. Apparently, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Baker indicate to you what he was doing to 
attempt to settle the strike ? Or to settle your problem ? 

Mr. Callahan. Up to that time, I had no idea of who Mr. Baker was, 
what he looked like, or what he might be doing in any direction. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate to you afterward who he was con- 
tacting, who he was seeing, what he was trying to do ? 

Mr. Callahan. Not directly. When he came to Pittsburgh in De- 
cember we were already on strike, and he endeavored to see some peo- 
ple, I don't know who it was, and then he arranged a meeting between 
Cozza, Weinheimer, myself, and himself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that he was contacting anybody in 
Detroit in connection with this? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that anything that was done relative 
to the situation had to be done by the head office ( 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir, he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you understand that the head office was? 

Mr. Callahan. Mr. Hoffa and the executive board. As a matter 
of fact, in different conversations that I had with him after that I 
had endeavored to elicit his aid and he told me that he could not do 



14334 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

anything unless he had the blessings of the top office to come into Pitts- 
burgh and attempt to operate with authority. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that he had the blessings of the top 
office to come to Pittsburgh ? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he come to Pittsburgh independently then? 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my knowledge, he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many times did he come to Pittsburgh ? 

Mr. Callahan. I think to the best of my recollection, he was in 
Pittsburgh three times. 

Mr. Kennedy. He testified before the committee that he was sent 
to Pittsburgh? 

Mr. Callahan. No, that wasn't right. 

Mr. Kennedy. He said that he was. He came to Pittsburgh three 
times, and when was that ? 

Mr. Callahan. I would say in December and January. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many times in December ? 

Mr. Callahan. Twice to my knowledge. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever give him any money yourself ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir, I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you give him ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, all told I would say I gave Barney — I men- 
tioned when I was here before — approximately $600, and it could be 
as much as $800. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that in $100 bills ? 

Mr. Callahan. No. I don't recall ever having given him hundred- 
dollar bills, and I put it on the basis, and I was never asked for money 
by Barney except on one occasion where he was a little hard up, and 
I personally offered him some money and he said, "We will put it on 
the basis of a loan," and I said, "All right." That is the way it was. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you advance him this money ? 

Mr. Callahan. The first money to the best of my recollection that 
I recall having given him was when he came to Pittsburgh the first 
time. We had a meeting with him and he was going to have a meeting 
with some other people, and I don't know who it was. I gave him 
at that time, I believe, $100 to cover any expenses that he had while 
he was in Pittsburgh. When he came back to Pittsburgh I gave him, 
I would say it was $125 all told. Part of that was for his hotel and 
the rest was cash. 

When he came back in January he had told me that he was hard 
pressed and I knew that he was contemplating marriage and one 
thing and another, and he said that he needed $300. I gave it to him 
and he said, "We will put this on a loan basis." 
Mr. Kennedy. Did you get a note from him of any kind ? 
Mr. Callahan. I didn't ask for one and he didn't offer one. 
Mr. Kennedy. That is $525 so far. 

Mr. Callahan. Then I sent him money to Washington one time 
and I sent him money, I believe, to Detroit one time, and I sent him 
money to Chicago twice, I think. 

The Chairman. That is four more occasions when you gave money. 
You have mentioned three now. Were all of these sent after 
January ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14335 

The Chairman. All right, proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you send the money to him down here? 

Mr. Callahan. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you send him the money down here in 
Washington ? 

Mr. Callahan. One of the hotels, and I don't remember which one 
it was. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much was that ? 

Mr. Callahan. That was $200, as I recall. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about in Detroit; where did you send that? 
Was that cash ? 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my recollection ; yes, sir. And I sent 
him $200 and I believe to Detroit, and I sent him 

Mr. Kennedy. Where in Detroit ? 

Mr. Callahan. I don't recall that, and I believe wherever he was 
staying, and I sent him $100 on 2 other occasions to Chicago. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whereabouts in Chicago ? 

Mr. Callahan. The Belmont-Stratford, I believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was the money sent to Chicago ? 

Mr. Callahan. I would say within the last 6 weeks. 

Mr. Kennedy. Within the last 6 weeks ? 

Mr. Callahan. Within the last 6 weeks. 

Mr. Kennedy. You sent $100 or $200 to Detroit, and when was 
that? 

Mr. Callahan. I do not recall exactly. It was during May or 
June. 

The Chairman. That is of this year ? 

Mr. Callahn. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How much more do you owe him ? 

Mr. Callahan. I didn't owe him anything, Senator. 

The Chairman. Why was he selected for your gracious favors? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, I may be criticized for this statement, but 
frankly, I like Barney Baker. 

The Chairman. All right, proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you also thought he could do you some good ? 

Mr. Callahan. I also felt that if there was ever a time that he 
could do me any good, in any way, that he would. 

Mr. Kennedy. In addition to trying to help you solve your labor 
difficulties, was he helping you in any other way ? 

Mr. Callahan. He contacted several firms after our strike, and 
asked them if there was any way that they could give us any busi- 
ness, and we heard from those firms and there is one piece of business 
still pending that if we could have it, providing we could get our 
labor problems straightened out, I think it would be profitable. 

Mr. Kennedy. What firms did he contact on your behalf ? 

Mr. Callahan. Long Transportation Co., and Middle Atlantic, 
Alger, and Redstock. 

The Chairman. Do you contemplate sending him any more money ? 

Mr. Callahan. I am in pretty deep right now for having sent him 
what I did. If I do, it will be by check. 

The Chairman. That is a good idea. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. I hand you two letters, photostatic copies of letters, 
purportedly written by you. The first one is dated January 6, 1958, 



14336 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

addressed to the Middle Atlantic Transportation Co., attention of 
Mr. Paul Kluding, and another dated February 19, 1958, addressed 
in the same manner. 

I ask you to examine the two letters, and state if you identify these 
as photostatic copies. 

(Documents were handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. They may be made exhibits (No. 81, A and B. 

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 81, A and B' : , 
respectively, for reference and will be found in the appendix on 
pp. 14542-14543.) 

The Chairman. We will proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. One is dated February 19, 1958, to Middle Atlantic 
Transportation Co., Inc., 6575 West Verner Highway, Detroit, Mich., 
attention of Paul Kluding, operations manager : 

Dear Mr. Kluding : The interest that both you and Barney Baker have evi- 
denced on our behalf is sincerely appreciated. Your Jack Meyers has no doubt 
been quite busy although we are looking forward to meeting with him tomor- 
row, which we hope will prove productive for both of us. 
Again thanking you for your personal intervention, we are, 
Yours very sincerely, 

G. F. Callahan, Jr., President. 

The other letter is dated February 6, 1958, to the Middle Atlantic 
Transportation Co., Inc., Detroit. Mich., attention of Mr. Paul 
Kluding : 

Dear Mr. Kluding: Our mutual friend, Mr. Barney Baker, of the Teamsters, 
told us he was talking to you regarding the possibility of interlining with your 
company for reciprocal benefit. At the present time we concur with the Middle 
Atlantic Conference and Eastern Central Motor Carriers Association for through 
rates. 

We published our own ICC tariffs for distribution over territory approxi- 
mately 130 miles north, east, and south of Pittsburgh and approximately 75 miles 
west of Pittsburgh. We are enclosing a map of our territory which further 
illustrates the above. 

Barney further mentioned that he told you that our name was Callahan Truck- 
ing Co. However he realized after he spoke to you that our name is Exhibitors 
Services Co., and suggested we mention this so that there would be no misunder- 
standing of names. We certainly appreciate any business you can swing our way 
and we will endeavor to handle your accounts with economical and safe opera- 
tion, as we know you will with us. 
Yours very sincerely, 

G. F. Callahan. 

Now I have just a few last questions. When Mr. Weinheimer was at 
the Rambler Motel during the first time you paid $1,000, you knew that 
he was contacting Mr. Baker there, did you not ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir, I did. I knew that he said he would like to 
visit Mr. Baker, and I suggested that he make a swing of all of the 
western territory and develop all of the business. I might say that at 
first I wasn't too much in favor of it, but I went along with it on the 
basis that, well, it could be productive to us and if it would help our 
labor relations in any way whatsoever, I wasn't adverse to that either. 

Mr. Kennedy. You knew he was also going to contact Mr. Baker 
about your labor problems ? 

Mr. Callahan. I understood he was going to talk to him about 
them. 

(At this point, the following members were present : Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14337 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Baker, while Mr. Weinheimer was there, made 
a telephone call to you, did he not ? 

Did you talk to him by telephone ? 

Mr. Callahan. Who, please ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Baker, from the Rambler Motel. 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my recollection, no, sir. I thought — 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he call you from the hospital or from the 
Rambler Motel ? 

Mr. Callahan. No. It was my impression that Mr. Baker was in 
the hospital the entire time he was there. I didn't know any different, 
was never told any different. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not talk to him by telephone ? 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my recollection, no, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was a telephone call we traced from the 
hospital, from Mr. Baker, to you in Pittsburgh, at 8 : 03 p. m. on 
August 13, and the telephone call shows that it lasted for 5 minutes. 
Do you remember that ? 

Mr. Callahan. I do not, no, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever talk to Mr. Hoff a about this situation ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many times did you see Mr. Hoff a ? 

Mr. Callahan. I have seen Mr. Hoffa twice. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you meet with him ? 

Mr. Callahan. I went to Detroit the first time and the second time 
I came to Washington. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you go to Detroit with ? 

Mr. Callahan. I went there with Ed Weinheimer, somewhat 
against my better judgment because we had no appointment or any- 
thing else, but we went up there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was anyone else with you other than Ed Wein- 
heimer ? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just the two of you ? 

Mr. Callahan. Just the two of us. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did anybody arrange the appointment for you to 
see Mr. Hoffa? 

Mr. Callahan. We had no appointment. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just went in there to see him? 

Mr. Callahan. We were there at 6 : 30 in the morning, waiting 
until the doors opened, and to try to be sure that we did not get passed 
by, because we recognized that he was quite busy. We saw him mavbe 
at 10: 30 or 11 o'clock. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you explained your problem to him ? 

Mr. Callahan. We asked him if there was anything that he could 
do. We told him what our problem was, we were on strike, and he said 
that he would get ahold of Tevis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tevis was the international representative in that 
area ? 

Mr. Callahan. In Pittsburgh, yes, sir. That I should go back and 
get ahold of Mr. Tevis, which I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. He indicated to you that he knew about your prob- 
lems, did he not ( 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Prior to your coming in there ? 



14338 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you saw him again here in Washington, D. C. ? 
Mr. Callahan. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you come back and confer with Tevis, then ? 
Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir, I did. 
Mr. Kennedy. What did he tell you ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, he told me first he had nothing to tell me, 
that he had a meeting with Cozza, and he was going to have to talk 
to Mr. Hoffa. Then following that, he would call me. So he called 
me about noon of that same day and said that he still had not anything 
to tell me. When I pressed him and asked him when he thought he 
might, he said, well, he did not know. I said "Well, does that mean 
a couple of days ?" And he said "It could be." 

So the following day, I believe, then he and Mr. Cozza went to see 
Mr. Hoffa. 

Mr. Kennedy. What? 

Mr. Callahan. The following day, he and Mr. Cozza went to see 
Mr. Hoffa. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you hear next on it ? 

Mr. Callahan. The next? Mr. Hoffa tried to get ahold of me 
twice by telephone. I missed both calls. When I called back, he was 
not available. Finally, Mr. Brennan called me and said that Mr. 
Hoffa had asked him to call me. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is Mr. Bert Brennan ? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. I assume so. And gave me the mes- 
sage that after listening to me, and after listening to the fellows that 
were there that same day, the matter was so controversial that he did 
not want to enter the picture just then. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you have seen him here once in Washington, 
D.C.? 8 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

> Mr. Kennedy. When is it that you talked to Mr. Brennan ? When 
did he call you ? 

Mr. Callahan. The only way I can tie that down by date is that I 
believe Mr. Hoffa was seated with the monitor arrangement on a 
Thursday, and we were there the following Monday morning. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the records, you went to see Hoffa on 
January 26, 1958. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Callahan. If that is the date that checks out according to what 
I said, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then on January 29, 1958, you cashed a check for 
$500, some of which went to Mr. Barney Baker. The strike was set- 
tled on February 5, 1958. 

Mr. Callahan. Yes> sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Brennan called you then between January 26, 
1958, and the date the strike was settled/February 5, 1958. 

Mr. Callahan. He called me 2 days, I would say it was 2 days, 
after I had been in Detroit. 

Mr. Kennedy. So he called you on about January 28, 1958 ? 

Mr. Callahan. I am not certain of the date, but it could be tied 
down from 

Mr. Kennedy. The strike was settled within a week after that. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14339 

Mr. Callahan. I thanked Mr. Brennan for calling me and giving 
me the information, and I said "Well, at least I know what I have 
to do." 

So I arranged a meeting with Mr. Tevis and Mr. Cozza, and over 
a weekend of about 8 hours of meetings on Saturday and Sunday, we 
finally came to terms and went back to work. 

Mr. Kennedy. You talked to Baker, did you not, on the day that 
the strike ended ? He called you from Detroit on February 5, 1958 ? 

Mr. Callahan. I don't recall exactly. 

Mr. Kennedy. The records show that he called you and spoke to 
you for 18 minutes. 

Mr. Callahan. Barney can spend a lot of time on the telephone, I 
can say that. But I honestly don't know whether I talked to him on 
that day or not. I may have. 

Mr. Kennedy. He spoke to you for 18 minutes, and the bill was 
$2.85, paid by the Teamsters. Then on February 6, of course, we have 
this letter that we put into the record, to the Middle Atlantic Trans- 
port Co., regarding the solicitation of business by Barney Baker for 
you. 

Mr. Callahan. Barney offered to endeaver to get us any business 
that he could, as quickly as he could, and to help us in any way that he 
could as quickly as possible to try to overcome some of the terrific 
loss we had had as a result of the strike. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you give any money directly or indirectly to 
any other union officials ? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you give any money of a similar nature to the 
ones you have described, the packages of money you have described, 
did you give any more money to Weinheimer, other than his regular 
expenses and his salary? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. These are the only packet moneys that you gave, 
large amounts of cash? 

Mr. Callahan. That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. If I have made a correct calculation here, you sent 
$3,000, then $1,000 on three separate occasions, to Mr. Weinheimer, 
for which you have no accounting. 

Mr. Callahan. That is correct, yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And on these occasions, you knew he was with 
Baker when you sent him the money ? 

Mr. Callahan. Only on one occasion did I know according to my 
recollection. I do not yet recall having sent the money to Detroit. I 
don't deny that I did. I don't say that I did. I don't recall it. 

The Chairman. Then you personally gave Mr. Baker $1,125 ? 

Mr. Callahan. Whatever the figures were that I mentioned. 

The Chairman. If my calculation is correct, that is the amount. 

Mr. Callahan. To the best of my recollection. 

The Chairman. Then, assuming the $3,000, a $1,000 item each time, 
was to go to Mr. Baker, or did go to him, you are out a total of $4,125 
on this operation, is that correct ? 

Mr. Callahan. According to your figures, that would be correct, 
yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I think you said you put it on the basis of loans, 
some of these gifts to Mr. Baker? 



14340 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Callahan. I did. 

The Chairman. How much do you claim he owes you now? 

Mr. Callahan. Any moneys I gave him with the exception of the 
first money that I gave him when he came to Pittsburgh, which was ap- 
proximately $100, and I think the second was $125. 

The Chairman. Then he would owe you around $900 now? 

Mr. Callahan. That is right. 

The Chairman. Do you have any hope of collecting? 

Mr. Callahan. I have had bad loans before, Senator. 

The Chairman. Then you are able to evaluate them to some extent ? 
You have had experience evaluating them ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, when you figure that in 10 or 12 years, in this 
thing, trying to do something, has cost you a million dollars, a couple 
of thousand dollars isn't a whole lot of money. 

The Chairman. The truth is you never expected to get this money 
back, did you ? You don't exepct to now ? 

Mr. Callahan. If I demanded it, I think it would be paid, yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I asked you if you expected to get it back when 
you gave it to him. You said he said he would put it on the basis of 
a loan. You were actually giving it to him; you weren't loaning it 
to him, were you? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, frankly, I did not care too much whether 
he gave it back to me or not. 

The Chairman. That is right. Actually, you were buying his in- 
fluence as a labor leader, were you not? 

Mr. Callahan. In a sense, if you want to put it that way. On the 
other hand, I was doing it as a friend. 

The Chairman. In the most accurate sense. You had not known 
Barney Baker long enough to fall in love with him. 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Then, in the most accurate sense, you were buying 
the influence of a labor leader. 

Mr. Callahan. I have no comment, Senator. 

The Chairman. I don't think it needs comment or clarification. 

Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Is your jurisdictional problem solved now? 

Mr. Callahan. No, sir; it is not. 

Senator Curtis. If this jurisdictional problem, which leads into 
all sorts of complications, such as two deliveries to the same customer 
and that sort of thing — if the solution were left to your own em- 
ployees, do you think that it would be solved? 

Mr. Callahan. No; I do not, as far as local 211 employees are 
concerned. In fact, I don't think they look to us for security. This 
same local controls the newspapers, and they feel that they could be 
associated there regardless of whether we went out of business or not. 

Senator Curtis. If you went out of business, they would find em- 
ployment someplace else. 

Mr. Callahan. Unless we had better control over our employees 
than we have at present. If we went out of business, they could find 
jobs in the newspapers, three Pittsburgh newspapers. 

Senator Curtis. Delivering papers? 

Mr. Callahan. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. So they are just not going to have any part of 
vour orders? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14341 

Mr. Callahan. Senator, if I issue an order or request, and it is 
countermanded as against Mr. Cozza's wishes, I might as well keep 
quiet. 

Senator Curtis. I have no further questions. I think there is evi- 
dently an abuse of power in this jurisdiction here. I am not excusing 
anything that happened subsequent thereto, but certainly it is not in 
the interest of our economy to have a situation existing like you face, 
because it leads to transactions that, in retrospect, no one is anxious 
to defend. 

The Chairman. Anything further? 

I asked you about your buying influence with Mr. Baker. Is he 
still working for you, soliciting business for you ? 

Mr. Callahan. Well, I don't know. I would say that I have not 
talked to anybody that he has solicited business from lately. I still 
feel, however, that, if he could do me a good turn, personally, he would 
doit. 

The Chairman. Why? 

Mr. Callahan. It is one of those unexplainable things, Senator. 
As I mentioned before, I like Barney Baker, and I think he liked me for 
myself. 

The Chairman. I think he liked you, too. I see no reason why he 
should not. You were buying his influence, and he was selling his 
influence to you both in connection with your labor troubles, when he 
had an obligation as an officer of the union to represent the interests 
of the employees, and of the union. Yet you were paying him for his 
influence in trying to settle your labor problems and then, according 
to your own testimony, you were paying him for his influence in trying 
to procure business for your company. Obviously, there are some 
arrangements where he was to favor you and you, in turn, were paying 
him ; is that not correct ? 

Mr. Callahan. It may appear that way, but I can't comment any 
further on that, Senator. 

The Chairman. All right, Thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have Mr. Cozza's record here. 

The Chairman. He is the president of that local there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whom Mr. Callahan had to deal with in these 
matters, and who was the one causing the difficulty. I wonder if we 
could just summarize that. 

The Chairman. Let the witness who investigated summarize it. 
Summarize it for the record, Mr. Sheridan. 

Mr. Sheridan. Mr. Theodore Cozza has a criminal record going 
back to February 1934, when he was arrested in connection with the 
holdup of a gas station, and he has 

Senator Curtis. Who are you talking about ? 

Mr. Sheridan. This is Theodore Cozza, president of local 211, 
with whom Mr. Callahan was having this difficulty. 

Senator Curtis. Is that 211 the one that has the organization of 
the employees that handle the newspapers ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes, Senator. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is the one that was causing the main difficulty. 

Mr. Sheridan. He has a total of nine arrests, which includes arrest 
for blackmail, bribery, burglary, perjury, inciting to riot, operating 
a lottery, and assault and battery. 



14342 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. What are the convictions for ? 

Mr. Sheridan. He was convicted for entering a building in 1935, 
and sentenced to 6 to 18 months. He served a year in jail for the 
bribery and perjury charge. He was convicted on the lottery charge 
and sentenced. 

Mr. Kennedy. So he has been convicted 3 times and arrested 9 
times ? 

Mr. Sheridan. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. I want to ask one question about Cozza. Has the 
international union ever placed 211 under trusteeship, and had an 
election there so they could get rid of Cozza? 

Mr. Sheridan. Not that I am aware of, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. You have examined the record ? 

Mr. Sheridan. We have not examined the union records of 211. 

The Chairman. Will you be sworn? You do solemnly swear the 
evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EDWAKD F. WEINHEIMEE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, KENNETH D. WOOD 

The Chairman. Be seated. State your name, your place of resi- 
dence, and your business or occupation. 

Mr. Weinheimer. My name is Edward Weinheimer, 1656 Univer- 
sity Avenue, the Bronx, and I am unemployed. 

The Chairman. You have counsel ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I do. 

The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Wood. Kenneth D. Wood of the District of Columbia bar. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Weinheimer, when was your last 
employment ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. February of 1958. 

The Chairman. Your last employment was with Mr. Callahan's 
company, the Esco Motor Co., or the Exhibitors Service Co., Inc. ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. You have had no employment since then? What 
time in February did you leave his employ ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I don't recall any exact date. 

The Chairman. It was after the labor matter was settled ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I don't remember. 

The Chairman. All right. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Weinheimer, can you tell us how long you have 
known Mr. Barney Baker ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I decline to answer — I respectfully decline to 
answer under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, 
and assert the privilege not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Weinheimer, I would like to know how long 
you have known him, and then I would like to know about any busi- 
ness financial transactions you have had with him. Can you tell us 
what financial transactions you have had with Mr. Barney Baker? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14343 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline not to answer on the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You said you decline not to answer. We will there- 
fore be very glad for you not to decline to answer. I don't think you 
meant to say decline not to answer, did you % 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline not to answer — to answer, 
I am sorry. 

The Chairman. I am trying to be helpful to you. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Weinheimer, according to the information we 
have and the testimony that we have received there were three pack- 
ages that were sent to you from Mr. Callahan at your request on 
August 16, 1957, at the Rambler Hotel in Des Moines, Iowa, Can 
you tell us why you requested those three packages which contained 
a thousand dollars ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Those three packages containing a thousand dollars 
were in the denominations of $100 bills. Could you tell the committee 
whether you gave that money, any or all of that money, to Mr. Barney 
Baker of the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. It is a fact, is it not, you did give this money to 
Mr. Barney Baker, and it is this money that Mr. Baker used to pay his 
hotel bill at the Rambler Motel ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The reason you paid him a thousand dollars was for 
his help and assistance in the difficulties which the Callahan Co., the 
Esco Co., were having with the Teamsters Union in McKeesport, Pa. ; 
isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, on Sepember 13, isn't it a fact that you were 
at the Bellecrest Hotel in Detroit, Mich. ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that on September 14 you called Mr. 
Callahan of the Esco Co. and told him that a strike that had been 
scheduled for September 16 had been called off ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, who was it in Detroit, Mich., who was able to 
call off a strike in McKeesport, Pa., Mr. Weinheimer ? 



14344 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Certainly Mr. Barney Baker is in no position to call 
off a strike in Pennsylvania. Who was it that gave the instructions 
that there should be no strike of this company ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert a privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

(At this point the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. In this call on September 14, you requested another 
$1,000 package to be sent to you at this hotel in Detroit? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And, on September 16, Mr. Callahan wrote a second 
check for $1,000 and sent it in 2 separate packages in $100 bills to you 
at the Bellecrest Hotel in Detroit; is that correct? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Barney Baker was staying at the hotel with 
you ; was he not ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you give any or all of this money to Mr. Baker? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Baker, in turn, contact Mr. Hoffa to have 
him call off the strike in Pennsylvania ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, on October 16, 1957, vou received a third sum 
of $1,000, did you not, in $100 bills ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you give any or all of that money to Mr. Barney 
Baker? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mi-.Kennedy. Could you tell us anything about the money that Mr. 
Baker received directly from Mr. Callahan, starting in 1958? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The strike was settled on February 5, 1958, just after 
a telephone call from Mr. Owen Bert Brennan. Can you tell us any- 
thing about that ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14345 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And that immediately followed a payment by Mr. 
Callahan to Mr. Barney Baker himself of several hundred dollars? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Did you pay income tax on this $3,000 that was sent 
to you by Mr. Callahan ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did you file a return showing that it was expenses ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. What did you do with the money ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever give Mr. Callahan a truthful account 
of what you did with the money ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. What other employers have you worked for ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Where are you working now ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I am unemployed. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman.. 

The Chairman. Mr. Weinheimer, do I understand that you are de- 
clining to state whether you were at the Rambler Motel, Des Moines, 
Iowa, in August of last year, 1957, on the grounds that if you answered 
the question, a truthful answer thereto might tend to incriminate you? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Weinheimer. I decline to answer under the fifth amendment 
of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege not to be- 
come a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Isn't it a fact you were there, and that you reg- 
istered and gave your address as 85 Helen Street, McKees Rocks, Pa. ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you remember Mr. Everett Scott, manager of 
the motel ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 14 



14346 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. I believe he states lie is the owner and operator of 
the motel. Did you meet him while you were staying there ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you not realize that we can establish the fact 
that you were there? You are trying to deny that which evidence 
can establish. 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. I have an affidavit signed by Everett Scott. I am 
going to read it to you, the pertinent parts of it. The affidavit may be 
printed in the record in full at this point. 

(The document referred to follows :) 

AFFIDAVIT 

I, Everett Scott, who reside at 1416 King Avenue, Des Moines, Iowa, make 
the following statement freely and voluntarily to La Vera J. Duffy, who has iden- 
tified himself as a member of the staff of the United States Senate Select Com- 
mittee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field. No threats, 
force, or duress has been used to induce me to make this statement, nor have I 
received any promise of immunity from any consequences which may result 
from the submission of this statement to the aforementioned Senate select 
committee. 

Since the year 1952, I have owned and operated the Rambler Motel, located 
at 2701 Southeast 14th Street in Des Moines, Iowa. 

In August 1957, Mr. and Mrs. Ed J. Weinheimer, who gave their address 
85 Helen Street, McKees Rocks, Pa., registered at the Rambler Motel. They re- 
mained at the motel from August 9 to September 2, 1957. During the period 
that they were at the motel, I personally saw Mr. Weinheimer frequently in 
the company of Mr. Robert "Barney" Baker, an official of the Teamsters Union. 
I had a number of discussions with Mr. Weinheimer, and he would complain 
about how the Senate Rackets Committee was persecuting Mr. Jimmy Hoffa, 
of the Teamsters Union, and how Hoffa was a wonderful fellow. Mr. Wein- 
heimer also stated on a number of occasions that Mr. Barney Baker was a great 
contribution to the labor movement. I deduced from Mr. Weinheimer's actions 
and discussions that Mr. Weinheimer was an employee of Mr. Baker, and pos- 
sibly a labor organizer. I recall on one specific occasion Mr. Weinheimer also 
made the comment that Mr. Lew Farrell, Des Moines, Iowa, was very influential 
and, if I ever wanted anything done, he was the man that had the contacts in 
Des Moines. 

I recall vividly the day Mr. and Mrs. Weinheimer checked out of the Rambler 
Motel. After Mr. Weinheimer paid his bill, I was tipped off by certain employees 
of the motel that the Weinheimers had stolen a number of towels. Upon re- 
ceiving this information, I approached Mr. Weinheimer, who at the time was 
loading his luggage into his car. I said to him, "We have a problem to settle. 
It seems I am short a number of towels, and I think you are long on them." At 
this point, Mr. Weinheimer became nervous and upset. Weinheimer then said, 
"What do you mean?" and I said, "I want to check your luggage for our towels." 
Weinheimer then proceeded to pull out his billfold and said, "What do you want 
to take care of it?" I remarked that I didn't want his money; I just wanted my 
towels. Finally, Mr. Weinheimer said, "Go ahead and examine the luggage, if 
you want to." He denied there were any towels in his luggage belonging to the 
Rambler Motel. I proceeded to examine his luggage, where I found 26 towels 
with the name of the Rambler Motel stamped on them. The Weinheimers, in order 
to make room for the towels, had stuffed some of their own personal clothing in 
paper sacks. Also, while going through the luggage and removing our towels, I 
found two rolls of toilet tissue. I asked Mr. Weinheimer if he was so hard up he 
had to steal toilet tissue. In a very angry voice he said, "No, I don't need it." 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14347 

He then removed the toilet tissue from the luggage and threw it down in disgust 
and walked off. 

I have read the foregoing statement and, to the best of my knowledge, it is 
true and correct. 

Everett Scott. 
Witnesses : 

LaVern J. Duffy. 
Leon «T. Clemens. 

I am going to read some of the pertinent parts to you and give you 
an opportunity to state whether it is true or untrue. 
Mr. Scott states : 

Since the year 1952, I have owned and operated the Rambler Motel, located 
at 2701 Southeast 14th Street in Des Moines, Iowa. 

In August 1957, Mr. and Mrs. Ed J. Weinheimer, who gave their address as 85 
Helen Street, McKees Rocks, Pa., registered at the Rambler Motel. They re- 
mained at the motel from August 9 to September 2, 1957. During the period 
that they were at the motel, I personally saw Mr. Weinheimer frequently in the 
company of Mr. Robert "Barney" Baker, an official of the Teamsters Union. I 
had a number of discussions with Mr. Weinheimer, and he would complain 
about how the Senate Rackets Committee was persecuting Mr. Jimmy Hoffa, of 
the Teamsters Union, and how Hoffa was a wonderful fellow. 

Do you recall that ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman (reading) : 

Mr. Weinheimer also stated on a number of occasions that Mr. Barney Baker 
was a great contribution to the labor movement. 

Do you recall that ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman (reading) : 

I deduced from Mr. Weinheimer's actions and discussions that Mr. Wein- 
heimer was an empolyee of Mr. Baker, and possibly a labor organizer. 

Do you have any comment ? 
Mr. Weinheimer. No comment. 
The Chairman (reading) : 

I recall on one specific occasion Mr. Weinheimer also made the comment that 
Mr. Lew Farrell of Des Moines, Iowa, was very influential and, if I ever wanted 
anything done, he was the man that had the contacts in Des Moines. 

Do you know Mr. Farrell ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you recall the day you left the motel and 
checked out ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to be come a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Mr. Scott seems to recall it. He says : 

I recall vividly the day Mr. and Mrs. Weinheimer checked out of the Rambler 
Motel. After Mr. Weinheimer paid his bill, I was tipped off by certain em- 
ployees of the motel that the Weinheimers had stolen a number of towels. 



14348 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Let's have order. 

Upon receiving this information, I approached Mr. Weinheinier, who, at the 
time, was loading his luggage into his car. 

Do you remember any incident that occurred at that time ? 

Mr. Weiniteimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman (reading) : 

I said to him, "We have a problem to settle. It seems I am short a number of 
towels, and I think you are long on them." At this point, Mr. Weinheinier became 
nervous and upset. Weinheimer then said, "What do you mean?" And I said, 
"I want to check your luggage for our towels." Weinheimer then proceeded to 
pull out his billfold and said, "What do you want to take care of it?" I remarked 
that I didn't want his money ; I just wanted my towels. Finally, Mr. Wein- 
heimer said, "Go ahead and examine the luggage, if you want to." He denied 
there were any towels in his luggage belonging to the Rambler Motel. I pro- 
ceeded to examine his luggage, where I found 26 towels with the name of the 
Rambler Motel stamped on them. 

Do you recall it now ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you think towel stealing is funny ? I see you 
are smiling. 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution not to become a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Did you pick up anything else before you left ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Let's see what Mr. Scott says about that : 

The Weinheimers, in order to make room for the towels, had stuffed some 
of their own personal clothing in paper sacks. Also, while going through the 
luggage and removing our towels, I found two rolls of toilet tissue. 

Let's have order, please. 

I asked Mr. Weinheimer if he was so hard up he had to steal toilet tissue ; in 
a very angry voice he said, "No ; I don't need it." 

He then removed the toilet tissue from the luggage and threw it down in dis- 
gust and walked off. 

Do you remember that incident in your life ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Well, I wanted to give you a chance, because I 
just feel that the record should be made clear as to the kind of people 
that are involved in this union racketeering, bribery, stealing. If 
you want to leave yourself in that category and don't want to answer 
these questions, it is your privilege. Do you honestly believe that, 
if you answered these questions, a truthful answer to them might tend 
to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I respectfully decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, and assert the privilege 
not to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are there any questions ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14349 

Senator Curtis. I just want to say to you that I hold in my hand a 
news item from Detroit, dated August 27. It is an Associated Press 
item. It says : 

Ten-year-old Desmond McDuffy had an argument with his widowed mother 
last night and decided to return to his former home in Memphis, Tenn. Des- 
mond got out of his mother's car and left. He got about 2 miles from home 
before he gave up. Police said the boy struck at least 14 parked cars before 
crashing through a fence and flattening the back porch of a house. Desmond 
fled on foot. Police found him hiding under a pile of cartons at a nearby 
grocery. They said the boy told them, "I ain't talking. I'm taking the fifth 
amendment." 

I think that the unions and the union officials who have brought in 
union officials here, thugs and hoodlums and extortionists, and man- 
agement, too, that have brought in people and characters of disrepute, 
who have, before the eyes of the entire Nation, taken the fifth amend- 
ment, have a lot to answer for. Not only are they heading in a di- 
rection that is giving us a racketeering economy in the country, but 
they are corrupting the youth of the land. I think whoever is re- 
sponsible for hiring such characters as you and these others has a 
great deal to answer for. 

The Chairman. You will remain under your present subpena, 
subject to being recalled at such time as the committee may desire to 
have further testimony from you. You will be given reasonable 
notice of the time and place where the committee desires to interrogate 
you. With your agreement, acknowledging this recognizance, and 
your agreeing to appear upon reasonable notice, you may be excused. 
Do you agree ? 

Mr. Weinheimer. I agree. 

The Chairman. Stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we still are waiting on a matter that 
we have not finished up, and that was on Mr. Lew Farrell. We have, 
not looked into his briefcase yet. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, come forward, please. 

TESTIMONY OF LEW FARRELL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
HARRY CLIFFORD ALLDER— Resumed 

The Chairman. Where is your briefcase, Mr. Farrell ? 
Mr. Farrell. I don't have it with me. 
The Chairman. I beg your pardon ? 
Mr. Farrell. I don't have a briefcase with me. 
The Chairman. You will produce it here again today some time. 
Mr. Kennedy. That is what we wanted. 
The Chairman. Where is the briefcase ? 
Mr. Allder. Senator, I represent this witness. 
The Chairman. Very well. 
Where is your briefcase ? 
Mr. Allder. I have his records here, sir. 
The Chairman. You have all of his records there ? 
Mr. Allder. Yes, sir. 
The Chairman. All right. Sit down. 
Mr. Attorney, identify yourself for the record, please. 
Mr. Allder. My name is Harry Clifford Allder, a member of the 
Washington, D. C. bar. 



14350 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, you appeared yesterday before the 
committee in response to your subpena, at which time you had a sub- 
pena duces tecum, to produce certain records called for in the sub- 
pena which you acknowledged receiving. At that time you appeared 
and stated you had the records called for by the subpena in a brief- 
case, which you exhibited to the committee. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and, 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert 
my privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Well, the Chair is going to order and direct you 
to answer that question, with the approval of the committee, because 
you did so testify yesterday. I am just trying to interrogate you 
further about the records you have brought. 

Air. Allder. May I address the Chair \ 

The Chairman. I am laying a foundation to ask about these files 
here, the records you are presenting, because yesterday he said all the 
records were in that briefcase. I want to interrogate him about them. 
You may now address the Chair. 

Mr. Allder. I was going to request I be allowed to see a transcript 
of yesterday's proceeding so that I may intelligently advise him. 

The Chairman. We have no objection to that. Will you please 
supply the attorney with a transcript of yesterday's proceeding? 

( Document handed to counsel. ) 

Mr. Allder. May the question be repeated, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. I said yesterday you appeared before the com- 
mittee in response to the subpena which you acknowledged having 
received, a subpena duces tecum to produce certain records. You 
exhibited to the committee at that time, a briefcase, which you said 
contained the record and documents called for by the subpena. Is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. At that time, you refused to exhibit the contents 
of the briefcase, is that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, today you appear again in continuing re- 
sponse to the subpena and your attorney has laid on the table a small 
package of documents. I would like to have a picture of that for the 
record if some of you photographers will kindly accommodate us, 
the package at the right elbow. If you will make a picture of that, 
I would like to have that for the record. Thank you. 

Now, Mr. Farrell, I wish to ask you if the papers which your counsel 
now holds and exhibits to the committee are the documents and records 
which your briefcase contained yesterday ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes. 

The Chairman. Are those documents, now exhibited, all of the 
documents that your briefcase contained yesterday ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are they all of the documents that you have 
called for by the subpena ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are they all of the documents that were called for 
by the subpena at the time the subpena was served ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14351 

The Chairman. Do you have knowledge of the whereabouts of any 
other records or documents called for by the subpena that were not 
in your possession or controlled at the time the subpena was served? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. There are no other records that I know. 

The Chairman. In other words, now, are you complying with the 
subpena in full, to the limit of your ability to do so ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Will you present the documents to the committee ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and, 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert 
my privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you honestly believe if the documents were 
presented to the committee, delivered to the committee for inspection, 
that such act, and the delivery of such documents and their contents, 
might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Farrell. I honestly believe if I am forced to answer the question 
I will be forced to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You honestly believe if you presented the docu- 
ments they might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You do ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I just have a few questions at this time. 

The Chairman. Let me ask you this : Are we to understand from 
the amount of documents you present that you practically keep no 
records of your financial transactions ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and, 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert 
my privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Have you destroyed any documents or records or 
other materials called for by the subpena since it was served on you ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and, 
under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert 
my privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. The Chair, with the approval of the committee, will 
order and direct you to answer that question because, in my judgment, 
a destruction of any of the records called for by the subpena by you 
after your subpena was served would constitute contempt of the United 
States Senate. So I order and direct you to answer the question, with 
the approval of the committee. 

Mr. Allder. Mr. Chairman, I don't believe the first question had in 
this what you now put in it. 

The Chairman. Let the reporter read the question. 

(The reporter read the question as folloAA's :) 

Have you destroyed any documents or records or other materials called for by 
the subpena since it was served on you ? 

Mr. Allder. I stand corrected if that is the first question. 
May I confer with him one moment ? 
The Chairman. You may. 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. Senator, I have produced all the records that I had in 
existence when the subpena was served on me. 



14352 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. And all records in your control called for by the 
subpena ? 

Mr. Farrell. By the subpena that were in existence. 

The Chairman. You say "in existence." That would be anywhere, 
so far as you know ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You state under oath you have not destroyed any 
such records since the subpena was served on you ? 

Mr. Farrell. No — or yes, whichever is the right word — I haven't 
destroyed them, I haven't destroyed any. 

The Chairman. "No, I haven't destroyed any" are the right words 
if true. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your name, Mr. Farrell, is also Luigi Fratto, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and, under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert my 
privilege not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Farrell, you were born in Chicago, July 17, 1908, 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were an amateur and professional fighter? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline at this time to answer and, under 
the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. I note in your taking the fifth amendment you say 
you respectfully decline at this time to answer. Can you give us any 
indication, or will you agree to at any future time answer the questions? 

(Witness conferrerd with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I will eliminate those words and I will repeat, I 
respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth amendment of the 
United States Constitution, I assert my privilege not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Then we are to assume, and that is what you mean 
to imply, that your answer without the words "at this time" is final % 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You do not intend to answer them at any time ? 

Mr. Farrell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the information we have, which if it 
is incorrect I would like you to straighten us out, you had about sev- 
enty-odd fights; is that correct, as an amateur and as a professional 
fighter? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You worked for the city of Chicago and you moved, 
according to our record, to Des Moines, Iowa, in 1938 or 1939; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14353 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, our interest in you is the relationship, the close 
personal relationship, that you have had with Mr. James Hoti'a, par- 
ticularly, the relationship that you have had with Mr. Barney Baker. 
Is it correct that you have had a close personal relationship with both 
Mr. James Hoffa and Mr. Barney Baker % 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against mysel f. 

Mr. Kennedy. We understand that you have acted in the capacity 
of a labor-management consultant, that you have also given advice to 
various companies in the Iowa region regarding their difficulties with 
the Teamsters Union ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. That you specifically gave some advice to the Mid- 
west Burlap & Bag Co. in 1956, and suggested to them that they make 
a contract with local 10 of the Teamsters Union, which was then 
under trusteeship in Des Moines. 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And that was in order for them to not have to sign 
with the Textile Workers Union, which at that time had a majority 
of the employes signed up ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Farrell, another matter that is of interest to 
us, and which follows a pattern, is, once again, your associations with 
some of the well-known hoodlums in the United States, and the fact 
that you, yourself, have ben arrested some 20 times ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. As an example, you have had a 50-percent interest, 
in Hymie's Drive-Inn, which is operated by Hymie Weisman; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't this the same Hymie Weisman, who was with 
Cherrynose Gioe, when Gioe was killed in gangland style last year? 
He was in the automobile with him ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer, and, under the 
fifth amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privi- 
lege not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. As another example, didn't you obtain a distributor- 
ship for the Canadian Ace Beer Co. under the name of the Man- 
hattan Brewery Co. ? 



14354 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Weren't you associated in that company with Morris 
Greenberg, and his sister, who are the brother and sister of Alexander 
Greenberg ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

xMr. Kennedy. And didn't Alexander Greenberg — wasn't he a close 
associate of Al Capone — operate the Canadian Ace operation for the 
Capone mob ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you deny in the hearings before the Alcoholic 
Tax Unit that you had ever carried a gun ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that in 1942, an injunction was ob- 
tained by Mr. and Mrs. Pete Rand — who ran the Main Liner night- 
clut) — an injunction was obtained against you for pulling the gun on 
the Rands and attempting to cut in on 25 percent of their business ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, that, if true, would certainly tend to 
establish the fact that you are a kind of a hoodlum, gangster. Do 
you want to refute it or do you want to let that stand ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You also testified here yesterday that you had never 
had any illegal operations and never had any illegal financial in- 
terests. Isn't it correct that you had a 50-percent interest in the 
Sports Arcade, at Des Moines, Iowa, and the Downtown Business- 
men's Club in Des Moines, Iowa, during the period 1945-58 ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that both of these establishments 
were horserooms, and that your partner in this was the same Hymie 
Weisman ? Is that right ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. With this as a background, we had some 40 or 45 
telephone calls to Barney Baker during this period of time, in which 
you were doing some work for certain companies, he was a Teamster 
official. You tell us about those calls ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14355 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you honestly believe that if you answered that 
question, that a truthful answer thereto might tend to incriminate 
you? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the 
question, I will be forced to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that during this same period of time 
that you were contacting Mr. James Hoffa of the Teamsters Union? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. What has been your relation or connection with the 
Teamsters Union and Mr. Hoffa ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you honestly believe that if you gave an answer 
to that question, a truthful answer, that the truth, your answer, might 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Farrell. I honestly believe if I am forced to answer the ques- 
tion, I will be forced to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You are not declining to answer just to keep from 
being a witness against Mr. Hoffa ; are you ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just as another example, Mr. Zapas testified that 
he had been a close personal friend of yours for a long period of time. 
Do you know Mr. Gus Zapas ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. In September of 1952, the police were trailing an 
automobile which, in turn, was following a jewelry salesman. The 
jewelry salesman reported it to the police, and the police picked up 
these men that had been following him. The jewelry salesman was 
in fear that these men were going to rob him. 

The police picked the men up that were following him, and one of 
them was identified as Mr. Gus Zapas. He stated that he told the 
police he came to Des Moines, Iowa, on a bus in order to visit Lew 
Farrell. Could you tell us about that ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. At the time you were questioned by the newspapers, 
when you heard this report, you said you never heard of Gus Zapas, 
and wasn't it peculiar that these kind of people got your name? 



14356 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is despite the fact that Gus Zapas testified here 
before the committee that he had known you for many, many years? 

Mr. Farrell. Wait until I take a drink of water. 

Mr. Kennedy. Since childhood, I believe. 

Mr. Farrell. Would you say that again ? 

Mr. Kennedy. This is despite the fact that Mr. Gus Zapas testified 
before the committee he had known you since childhood. 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all for now. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Mention was made here in the testimony previ- 
ously of a Teamster contribution to the political campaign of Gov- 
ernor Loveless, of Iowa. Did you have any connection with that 
transaction ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever given anything to Governor Love- 
less? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Have you had any negotiations, discussions, or 
conversations, with anyone in reference to setting up an agency, a 
liquor purchasing agency, and then, in turn, to sell the liquor to the 
State-owned liquor stores in Iowa ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did Barney Baker ever give you any money ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever give Barney Baker any money? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment of the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever purchased in Yonkers Bros. Store, 
in Des Moines, a diamond wristwatch and a fur stole ? Did you make 
those purchases ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. There is nothing wrong witli making a purchase; 
is there ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14357 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did you give a diamond wristwatch and a fur stole 
to anyone outside of your own family ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Allder. May we confer just a moment, Senator ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Do you now have any interest, contract, or other 
connection, with the supply of liquor to the State-owned liquor stores 
in Iowa ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Farrel. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Do you have any interest, directly or indirectly, 
with the ownership, leasing, operation, or any transactions whatever 
in connection with slot machines ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Have you ever had any business ventures of any 
kind with any Teamster official or representative? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did you set up or plan to set up any liquor pur- 
chasing agency in the city of Minneapolis, Minn. ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Do you have any business interests in Omaha ? 

Mr. Farrell. I respectfully decline to answer and, under the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege 
not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. You will remain under your prasent subpena, 
subject to being recalled at such time as the committee may desire 
to interrogate you further. The documents called for by the subpena 
served on you will continue under subpena. Do you accept that 
recognizance ? 

Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You will be given reasonable notice of the time 
and place. 

All right, you may stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Al Giardano. 



14358 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. Al Giardano? Does anyone know anything about 
him? Has anyone seen him here? Mr. Counsel, remind me to call 
him again when the committee reconvenes after recess. 

We will now recess until 1 : 45 p. m. 

(Thereupon at 12:15 p. m., a recess was taken until 1:45 p. m., 
the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

(Members of the committee present were: Senators McClellan and 
Curtis.) 

The Chairman. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have the situation as far as Al 
Giardano is concerned. 

The Chairman. Al Giardano? Al Giardano? Does anyone here 
have any information about him ? 

Let the subpena and the return thereon served on Mr. Al Giardano 
be printed in the record at this point. 

It shows it was served on the 22d day of July, this year. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we also sent a ticket out there to 
St. Louis, for transportation for him. The report we received, 
although it was an indirect report, and not directly to our investigator, 
was that he had his sister visiting him and so he was too busy to come. 

The Chairman. Well, maybe the next time we send for him, his 
business will have decreased to where he can give the committee some 
attention. I think we will find some way to get him here. 

(The subpena is as follows :) 

L-4315 

United States of America 

Congress of the United States 

To : Al Giardano, Greeting : 

Pursuant to lawful authority, you are hereby commanded to appear before 
the Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Manage- 
ment Field of the Senate of the United States, on August 5, 1958, at 9:30 
o'clock a. m., at their committee room 101 Senate Office Building, Washington, 
D. C. then and there to testify what you may know relative to the subject mat- 
ters under consideration by said committee. 

Hereof fail not, as you will answer your default under the pains and penalties 
in such cases made and provided. 

To to serve and return. 

Given under my hand, by order of the committee, this 22nd day of July, in 
the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and fifty-eight. 

John L. McClellan, 
Chairman, Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the 
Labor or Management Field. 

Subpoenee should wait until notified by Mr. Robert F. Kennedy as to the 
actual date of appearance before departing for Washington. 

(On the reverse side of the subpena is the following:) 

July 22, 1958. 
I made service of the within subpena by personal service the within-named 
Al Giardano at R. R. #2, Hillsboro, Missouri, Highway #30 at 8 : 00 o'clock 
p. m., on the twenty-second day of July, 1958. 

Thomas A. Eickmeyee. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14359 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Joe Ferrara is the next witness. 

The Chairman. Will you be sworn ? 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence, given before this Senate 
select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH PAUL FERRARA, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, TED A. BOLINGER 

The Chairman. Before proceeding with this witness, the Chair 
might make this statement : From the best information the staff can 
give the committee at this time, this line of testimony dealing with 
the St. Louis area and particularly the area under the jurisdiction 
of Mr. Gibbons will likely continue for the remainder of this week. 
We anticipate that the committee will continue to hold hearings at 
least until Thursday evening and possibly until Friday at noon. 

Sometimes the committee is criticized, we can't please everyone, but 
sometimes we are criticized if we keep putting on testimony and don't 
give someone the opportunity to answer the derogatory evidence we 
are hearing — don't give him that opportunity immediately. They 
will say that we are being unfair. 

I do not know just how much more evidence we will have directly 
involving Mr. Gibbons, but he has been advised that at any time that 
he feels that he should be permitted to testify, if he will make that 
request known to the Chair, the committee will consider it. Otherwise, 
we may not call him until the general line of interrogation we are now 
pursuing, and the witnesses who have been subpenaed here for that 
purpose, is completed. 

State your name, your place of residence, and your business or 
occupation. 

Mr. Ferrara. Joe Ferrara, 2825 Southwest Street, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. I didn't get your occupation. 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you have an attorney ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. All right, we will proceed. 

Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Ferrara, according to the information that 
we have, you came into St. Louis from Rochester, N. Y., is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You came in there with two other individuals with 
police records, Mr. Charles Miano and Patrick Foley, did you not ? 



14360 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You came in there and part of your work was acting 
as a muscleman for local 405 of the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have been identified by several witnesses here 
as one of those who participated in the decoying of the taxicab and 
then the wrecking of the taxicab. You were the one who traveled 
with Mary Low Bladsoe, is that correct? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many times have you been arrested at the time 
you started doing this work for local 405 ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the records that we have, you had 
been arrested 12 times, including arrests for vagrancy, nonsupport, 
Internal Revenue Act, conspiracy, white slavery, grand larceny, armed 
robbery, concealed weapons, and as a fugitive. Is that correct? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. May I inquire, has this character been employed 
by the Teamsters since all of that happened ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. This started back in 1933, vagrancy in Ro- 
chester, N. Y., and then nonsupport, internal revenue conspiracy and 
internal revenue in 1941, and conspiracy in 1941, and he was sentenced 
to 30 days at that time; 1952, White Slavery Act in Baltimore, Md., 
and in 1944 grand larceny, Rochester, N. Y. 

Armed robbery in Detroit, Mich., in 1945, and in East St. Louis 
was arrested in 1949 carrying concealed weapons in St. Louis. Then 
a fugitive from Rochester, N". Y., in 1953, and at that time you were 
arrested with these two other "strong arm" men, Miona and Foley; 
isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. How long has he worked for the Teamsters, and 
what position has he recently held ? 

Mr. Kennedy. The records, as we stated yesterday, are not com- 
plete, but he was working for them evidently as a "strong arm" man 
during the period of the strike. That was the work he was doing. 

In December of 1953, at the time of the strike, he received $100 cash 
advance from a Hotel Kings-Way where he was staying, and then his 
bill at the Hotel Kings- Way was $41.18, and the bill of $141.18 was sent 
to the Teamsters, and it has on here, "O. K. by H. J. G." 

Senator Curtis. Those are Gibbons' initials ? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is correct. The money was charged to the 
Yellow strike, the money used to pay this hotel bill. I don't know 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14361 

what other moneys, in addition to that, you received in the form of 
cash. 

Could you tell us that, Mr. Ferrara ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You are not a regular employee of the Teamsters? 
Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. Have you even been a member of the Teamsters 
Union ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are you one of the thugs they employ when they 
want a dirty, nasty, job done ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully clecine to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. How many were employed at the same time you 
were, simply to go out there and do the rough stuff in the strike ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you have an occupation? Are you employed 
in any work, or any activity, about which you can admit it without 
self-incrimination ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You know what I think? I think every decent 
teamster in the United States ought to rise up against a leadership 
that would foster such thugs and hoodlums as you ex-criminals are, 
running around beating people up and committing vandalism. It is 
a national disgrace. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, he also received check No. 775, on 
June 5, 1954, for a total amount of $150. 

Isn't that correct, Mr. Ferrara, from the union ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, that was charged to grand jury ex- 
pense, which his union again paid for. 

The Chairman. Have you been helping fix grand juries? That 
is a question. 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe, Mr. Chairman, that he was one of the 
witnesses called before the grand jury. He appeared before them, 
but he cashed this check in Miami Beach, Fla. 

Is that correct, Mr. Ferrara ? 

21243— 59— pt. 38 15 



14362 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you know Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Did you ever work for him % 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Did he ever employ you ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question ana 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Did you ever do any honest labor for him ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question ana 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Did you perform any legitimate service for him in 
any respect whatsoever ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, could we have this bill introducea, 
the one that is O. K.'d by H. J. G. ? It also has the name Lou, here, on 
January 4, 1954. Lou, I imagine, is Lou Berra. 

Lou Berra was one of the officials of the union. He went to jail for 
receiving money from employers and for violation of the income-tax 
laws. 

The Chairman. I present you here a bill from the Hotel Kings- 
Way, dated January 1, 1954. I ask you to examine it and state if it is 
your bill. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

The Chairman. Just a moment. I don't know that we have an 
attorney here representing this witness. He declined to answer on 
the grounds that an answer might tend to incriminate him. 

You may stand aside, Mr. Counsel, until the witness decides whether 
he can answer that question or not. 

Mr. Bolinger. He will answer that question. 

The Chairman. Let's see if he will. 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. You may stand aside until this witness answers. 

Just a moment. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

The Chairman. I said stand aside. 

Now, then, do you have an attorney ? 

Mr. Ferrara. Yes. 

The Chairman. Who is it ? 

Mr. Ferrara. Mr. Bolinger. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14363 

The Chairman. Why did you take the fifth amendment on it a while 
ago ? Why did you tell this committee you refused to answer on the 
grounds it might tend to incriminate you ? Have you got an answer 
to that ? Have you ? Do you want your lawyer or don't you ? 

Mr. Ferrara. Yes, I do. 

The Chairman. You better answer some questions. Why did you 
tell me a while ago you took the fifth amendment when I asked you if 
you had a lawyer ? Answer the question. 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Lawyer, you may come back. 

State your name, and identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Bolinger. Ted A. Bolinger, attorney, St. Louis, 408 Olive 
Street. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can we have that made an exhibit, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Have you examined the bill ? Hand it to the wit- 
ness. Have you examined that bill ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Let the record show that he has examined it ; it was 
put right under his nose where he could not keep from seeing it. 

Make it exhibit No. 82. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 82" for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. We also had the testimony that you were one of the 
ones that went over in December of 1953 to beat up Jimmy Ford at 
Mr. Eugene Walla's local, that you were sent over there for the pur- 
pose of beating up Jimmy Ford. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you participate in the beating ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. After you were arrested and charged — you were 
arrested in 1953 with Miano and Foley — you had an automatic pistol 
in your possession, is that correct ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And these two individuals had criminal records in 
both Rochester, N. Y., and in Columbus, Ohio. 

Before you were arrested, they were going to get jobs, had been 
promised jobs, by Lou Berra, is that right ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. After you were arrested, they left town, but you 
stayed on and did this work for the Teamsters, of going around beating 
people up, is that correct ? 



14364 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. In addition to your police record, this beating peo- 
ple up has come reasonably easy to you because you were a professional 
lighter, is that right ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United. States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The police record in St. Louis describes you as a hired 
muscleman with a very, very bad reputation. Is that correct % 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

The Chairman. You have been previously sworn ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir, I have. 

The Chairman. I present to you their exhibit 82 ; will you testify as 
to what it is, how you found it, how you discovered it ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Mr. Chairman, this was amongst the records 
turned over to us by local 405 of the Teamsters in St. Louis. In search- 
ing through, I discovered this particular document. 

The Chairman. What is the document ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. It is a hotel bill, the Kings-Way Hotel, in St. Louis. 
It shows that Mr. Ferrara stayed there from December 21 through De- 
cember 31, 1953, and had a bill of $41.18, and also received a $100 cash 
advance from the hotel, all of which was paid by local 405. 

The Chairman. Is that the same bill that I exhibited to the witness 
and put right under his nose so he could see it ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; it is. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Witness, do you want to make any comment about it ? 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH PAUL FERRARA, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, TED A. BOLINGER— Resumed 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. The records also show the $150 payment; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; they do. 

Mr. Kennedy. In June of 1954 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Charged to grand jury expense ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Grand jury expense. 

Mr. Kennedy. And it was cashed in Miami, Fla. % 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct 

Mr. Kennedy. We had one other incident that you were identified 
with, Mr. Ferrara, and that is the Yellow cab of Leon Smith, which 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14365 

was taken by you and Joe Bommarito into an alley, according to the 
testimony we have had. The cab was smashed and the windows broken. 
Is that correct ? Did you participate in that ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment to the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Gibbons ever take any steps to try to stop 
these acts of violence ? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he give you any instructions to commit any of 
these acts of violence, he, or Mr. Saffo, or Mr. Kavner? 

Mr. Ferrara. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions, Senator Curtis? 

Senator Curtis. No questions. 

The Chairman. You will remain under your present subpena, sub- 
ject to being recalled by the committee at such time as it may care to 
further interrogate you. Do you acknowledge that recognizance? 
Do you ? 

Mr. Ferrara. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You will be given reasonable notice of the time 
and place to appear. You do agree to appear ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Ferrara. Yes. 

The Chairman. All right. You may stand aside. Call the next 
witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Byan Foster. 

Mr. Chairman, we have now finished with the situation in 195.3. We 
are now going to the Allen Cab strike, which occurred in 1954. The 
first witness is Mr. Byan Foster. 

The Chairman. Mr. Foster, come forward, please. 

Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Foster. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF BYAN A. POSTER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
SAM WEBER 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Just a moment, please. Will you state your name, your place of 
residence, and your business or occupation ? 

Mr. Foster. My name is Byan A. Foster, I live at 406 Snnningwell 
Drive, Webster Groves, Mo., manager of the Allen Cab Co. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You have counsel, Mr. 
Foster? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record, 
please. 



14366 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Weber. Sam Weber, 705 Olive Street, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Foster, you are vice president and general man- 
ager of the Allen Cab Co. ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. In St. Louis, Mo. ? 

Mr. Foster. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is an all-colored cab company ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You don't have any white drivers ? 

Mr. Foster. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have the teamsters organized your cab company ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was that ? 

Mr. Foster. I was not with the company when the first contract 
was signed, but it was in 1946, 1 hear. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there another question raised in 1954 in con- 
nection with the representation of your drivers ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. There was two unions, an independent union 
and the teamsters and both claimed a majority of the men. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the name of the independent union ? 

Mr. Foster. United Chauffeurs Association. 

Mr. Kennedy. What position did you take in connection with it? 

Mr. Foster. I taken a hands off position. In other words, it was 
for the two unions to prove who had it, and the only way we knew 
to prove it was to have an election, which we did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that a supervised election ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did both sides agree to the election ? 

Mr. Foster. No ; the teamsters did not agree to it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who in the teamsters did not agree to the election ? 

Mr. Foster. Angelo Lato and Norman Armbruster, who was their 
lawyer. Lato was representative of the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why did they refuse ? 

Mr. Foster. They said they had a contract with me and the elec- 
tion would not prove anything, and the National Labor Kelations 
Board would turn us down, they would have nothing to do with it. 
So it was supervised by Mr. Earl Cheit of the St. Louis University 
National Labor School. 

Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean that the National Labor Rela- 
tions Board would turn you down ? 

Mr. Foster. We were not covered by the act. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had the contract with the teamsters expired by that 
time? 

Mr. Foster. It expired November 1, 1954. This was prior to the 
expiration. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was for a contract for the representation of 
your employees after the contract had expired ? 

Mr. Foster. As of November 1, 1954. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was an election held ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And it was under the supervision of whom ? 

Mr. Foster. Earl Cheit, C-h-e-i-t. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, what was the result of the election ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14367 

Mr. Foster. It was 129 drivers, and I think it was 99 voted for the 
United Chauffeurs, I believe 10 for the Teamsters, 4 for no union, and 
1 was disqualified. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the Teamsters' Union attempt to stop the elec- 
tion? 

Mr. Foster. Well, not in a direct way. On the day of election 
there were quite a few Teamsters' men around the place where the 
election was held. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any violence of any kind ? 

Mr. Foster. No ; there was no violence. 

Mr. Kennedy. So the United Chauffeurs Association won the elec- 
tion. Did you sign a contract then with them ? 

Mr. Foster. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long after ? 

Mr. Foster. The contract was negotiated and signed, I think, about 
the 28th of October. It was negotiated between — after the election, 
which was October 11 or 12, 1 believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. October 12 ? 

Mr. Foster. October 12 was the election, and the contract was signed 
on October 28. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any contact from any of the Team- 
sters' officials after the election ? 

Mr. Foster. I am not too sure. I believe Pete Saffo called me and 
wanted to get together to negotiate a contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you tell them at that time ? 

Mr. Foster. I told him the election fairly indicated that the United 
Chauffeurs Association should be the bargaining agent for the men. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Herman Hendricks, local 688 ? 

Mr. Foster. I don't think he contacted me after the election. He 
did before the election, but not after that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the Teamsters then, after the election, picket you 
at all ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did the picketing start ? 

Mr. Foster. The picketing started at midnight on November 1, 
12 : 01 a. m., November 1. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any violence in connection with the picket- 
ing? 

Mr. Foster. Not in connection with the picketing ; no. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any violence at all in connection with the 
strike ? 

Mr. Foster. I had 3 cabs that were shot up, 3 cabs that were burnt 
up, and 4 cabs that had stinkbombs put in them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What period of time was this ? 

Mr. Foster. During a 4 or 5 months' period. 

Senator Curtis. Was there a strike going on ? 

Mr. Foster. Not in the sense that I thought it was a strike. The 
majority of the men wanted United Chauffeurs Association, and the 
majority of my cabs were on the street. 

Senator Curtis. The men wanted to work ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Senator Curtis. Your own drivers weren't out on strike ? 

Mr. Foster. There was about 10 of them out of about 129. 



14368 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. Of course it was a secret ballot, you do not know 
who the 10 were that voted for the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Foster. No ; I don't. 

Senator Curtis. But the majority of your drivers abided by the 
election ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Senator Curtis. Was there any dispute as to the terms of contract ? 

Mr. Foster. The contract with United Chauffeurs Association ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Foster. No ; not at all. 

Senator Curtis. The wages or division of fares, was apparently 
satisfactory ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever find out who did the wrecking of cabs, 
throwing of stinkbombs ? 

Mr. Foster. No; I didn't. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kennedy, interrogate him further about the 
violence. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the violence start on November 1, 1954 ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes ; the night of November 1. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was when a driver and three female passengers 
were fired upon ? 

Mr. Foster. Two female passengers and a child. It was two female 
passengers in that cab No. 145, and a child. I don't know whether it 
was a boy or girl child. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any pictures of that ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was fired upon with guns ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the bullets hit the car ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir ; they did. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many bullets hit the car ? 

Mr. Foster. About 10. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the first day ; is that right ? 

Mr. Foster. That was the first evening. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is this the one that was fired on ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir; cab No. 145. 

Mr. Kennedy. The bullets went in the side ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And in the back ? 

Mr. Foster. In the back. It looks like a shotgun possibly in the 
back. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was anybody hit ? 

Mr. Foster. No, sir ; they weren't. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did all those passengers avoid being hit? 

Mr. Foster. Evidently they must have been laying on the floor. 
They must have gotten on the floor awfully fast. 

The Chairman. Were you able to determine how many shots were 
fired at it? 

Mr. Foster. I think we found 15 .45 or .38 caliber slugs in it, plus 
1 of the windows blown out. 

The Chairman. How many? 

Mr. Foster. Fifteen. 

The Chairman. You said the slugs? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14369 

Mr. Foster. The slug holes. There was only one slug we found. 
You will notice that it went in the vent glass. That slug stuck in 
there and stayed there. 

The Chairman. I thought you said this was cab No. 145. That is 
up on the top ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

The Chairman. I find it now. Do you need to retain these pic- 
tures ? 

Mr. Foster. No, sir. 

The Chairman. These two pictures may be made exhibit No. 83-A 
and 83-B, of cab No. 145. 

(Photographs referred to were marked "Exhibit 83-A and 83-B, 
for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I thought you said there were 10 shots. 

Mr. Foster. I am not too sure. You can count them on there and 
practically get every one of the holes. 

Mr. Kennedy. It is about 10. 

The Chairman. At any rate, there is quite a number of them. 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

The Chairman. Where was the cab when they shot at it ? 

Mr. Foster. It was on Whittier and some street, I forget. It was 
up in North St. Louis. I would have to go back to the testimony here. 
I have a transcript of the trial. 

The Chairman. How long was this after this election was held ? 

Mr. Foster. The election was held October 12, but we did not sign 
a contract with United Chauffeurs Association until the 28th, which 
was effective November 1. 

The Chairman. This started on the night the contract became effec- 
tive? 

Mr. Foster. That's right, 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there anybody arrested in connection with 
that? 

Mr. Foster. I think that they arrested Herman Hendricks and Roy 
White that night. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is H-e-n-d-r-i-c-k-s ? 

Mr. Foster. I suppose that is the way you spell it. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is business agent for 688 ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they find anything on him when they arrested 
him? 

Mr. Foster. Not on him. I think the description of his car fitted 
the description that somebody had given at the scene, and they found 
a gun in his glove compartment, but I don't think the gun was tied up 
with the shooting. He was subsequently released. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, on November 1, again, the same day, two shots 
were fired through the rear window of another cab. 

Mr. Foster. Cab No. 132. 

Mr. Kennedy. Which was operated by Robert Mullin ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. On January 14, one of your cabs was stinkbombed ? 

Mr. Foster. I think there were 2 or 3 on the 14th. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is correct, stinkbombed ? 

Mr. Foster. There was one stinkbomb a few days later. 



14370 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. On January 22, one of your cabs was destroyed by 
fire? 

Mr. Foster. That's correct. 

Senator Curtis. Tell us about that. 

Mr. Foster. Well, I had three cabs burn up. They were burned 
up from the inside. In other words, the upholstery is what caught on 
fire, and all three were total losses. 

Senator Curtis. Were they in use at the time, or parked ? 

Mr. Foster. They were parked. One was parked in East St. Louis 
in a parking lot. He went in with passengers someplace and when he 
came back his cab was on fire. The other two were burned up in St. 
Louis. 

Senator Curtis. Under similar circumstances ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Senator Curtis. Was there any evidence of gasoline or kerosene 
thrown in there ? 

Mr. Foster. I think they were in such bad shape I don't believe the 
arson squad or Moran were able to tell. We did find one — this was 
cold weather, and we had an accident with one where it was hit in the 
back end. The body men pulled out the back seat and found the 
phosphorus ; it was on the back seat, but it was not warm enough for 
it to ignite. 

Mr. Kennedy. The interior of that automobile was completely 
burned, the roof buckled, and the windows broken out ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. On January 26, 1955, you had a driver by the name 
of Clifford Segines? 

Mr. Foster. S-e-g-i-n-e-s. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was driving a cab. You tell us what happened. 

Mr. Foster. He picked up a passenger, and this passenger flagged 
him on the street. When he got in, he asked him where he was 
going. It was a very large street where he was taking him. When 
he arrived at this address, there were 3 or 4 men waiting there, and 
they jumped on him and beat him up. I think he had a fractured 
arm. I know he had the top of his ear cut off from the pistol butt on 
the side of the head and several other injuries. He was in the hospital 
some weeks. He did not ride too much after that. Subsequently, he 
passed away. 

Mr. Kennedy. They hit him with a tire-tube iron ? 

Mr. Foster. I think it was a pistol. 

Mr. Kennedy. They broke out the windows ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Fractured his elbow and leg ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. I don't know whether his head was frac- 
tured or not. I know he lost the top of his ear. He was an elderly 
man and he was very slightly built and he was not very strong at all. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was one of your colored drivers ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. How many people attacked him ? 

Mr. Foster. He said 4 or 5. The man had very poor eyesight with- 
out glasses, and the first man that hit him broke his glasses. 

Senator Curtis. He knows that there were more than one ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Was anybody ever arrested ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14371 

Mr. Foster. No. 

Senator Curtis. He had no passengers with him at the time ? 

Mr. Foster. Just that one passenger that he picked up whom he did 
not recognize. 

Senator Curtis. What happened to the passenger ? 

Mr. Foster. The passenger was the first one that attacked him. 

Senator Curtis. The passenger did ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. When he stopped and let his passenger out is 
when the passenger attacked him. Then the 3 or 4 came up and 
started beating him. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was after your drivers had voted that they did 
not want the Teamsters and wanted this other independent union ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they had voted some 99 to 10 ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. The dispatchers were also members of 
the Teamsters, and that vote was 6 out of 6 for the independent union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, on January 29, 1955, a delayed-action deto- 
nator was found wired to a cab ? 

Mr. Foster. Cab 107. Fortunately, they made a bad job of wiring, 
and it did not go off. 

Mr. Kennedy. What would have happened if it had gone off ? 

Mr. Foster. I really don't know. Captain Moran said it would 
have ruined the motor. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, January 31, 1955, there was a phosphorus 
firebomb found in one of your cabs ? 

Mr. Foster. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. In fact, there were two found ? 

Mr. Foster. There were three burned up. One of them we found 
the phosphorus in. It was cold weather. Evidently it did not get 
warm enough to go off. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, February 27, 1955, another one of your cabs 
was shot at ? 

Mr. Foster. No. All the cabs that were shot at were shot at the very 
first night. 

Mr. Kennedy. I have here February 24; shots were fired at Walter 
Thomas while driving Cab No. 100. One shot struck his rear fender. 

Mr. Foster. I don't remember that. The only ones I remember was 
the first-night; 106, 132, and 145. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is from the police records that we have. 

Mr. Foster. That is possibly right, then, because I don't remember 
the shooting ; I only thought it was three. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, March 18, 1955, there was another cab dam- 
aged by fire, and then, March 27, 1955, another one damaged by fire. 
April 1, 1955, there was kerosene poured over a motor and ignited. 

Mr. Foster. I don't think it did too much damage; it just burned 
the wire off in that kerosene deal. 

Mr. Kennedy. April 19, 1955, plate-glass window of your office was 
broken. 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How was it broken ? 

Mr. Foster. By a brick. It was broken twice. 

(At this point, the following members were present : Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 



14372 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. May 13, 1955, one of your drivers was struck by a 
brick? 

Mr. Foster. Yes; that is right. I remember Ben was his name. 
I don't remember what cab he was driving. He was driving with the 
window down. That could have been a kid, though ; I mean he saw 
nobody. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was anybody ever arrested in connection with these 
matters ? 

Mr. Foster. I don't think so, other than that first night, when 
Hendrick's son was. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Dandridge ; wasn't he arrested ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. He was arrested in connection with 
shooting 132. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened ? 

Mr. Foster. They gave him a release. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that the one we just discussed — Dandridge? 

Mr. Foster. Dandridge was the one that fired into the back of 132. 
That happened the very first night of the strike, the trouble, on No- 
vember 1. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to him ? 

Mr. Foster. He was arrested. The police found him with a shot- 
gun — I think at the Supreme Cab Co. stand — but there was no prose- 
cution. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get an injunction on November 9 ? 

Mr. Foster. The 8th and 9th, the trial was. It was handed down 
on the 9th of November. 

Mr. Kennedy. But the damage to the cabs and to your personnel 
continued well after that date, did it not ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Whom did you get the injunction against? 

Mr. Foster. The Teamsters, Local 688. 

Mr. Kennedy. The court granted an injunction ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. They started out by granting a temporary order? 

Mr. Foster. A temporary injunction ; that is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then did they have a trial ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they give you a permanent injunction? 

Mr. Foster. They did. 

Mr. Kennedy. In other words, the court found sufficient evidence 
against the Teamsters that they did enter a permanent order for them 
to cease and desist the harassment and violence ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the Teamsters appear and resist that action? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And witnesses were sworn and evidence taken ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long did the trial last ? 

Mr. Foster. The permanent injunction, I think, was about 3 days, 
The temporary was 2 days. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the court found in your favor in both cases? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. After the permanent injunction, did they still vio- 
late the order ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14373 

Mr. Foster. No, sir. 

The Chairman. When they got the permanent injunction against 
the Teamsters, the violence stopped ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. You have no doubt, then, who was committing the 
violence ? 

Mr. Foster. I don't know who was committing it. 

The Chairman. But you have no doubt who was responsible for the 
violence you suffered ? 

Mr. Foster. Well, I wouldn't condemn them, because there was no 
proof, I mean, that they did do it. 

The Chairman. How did you get an injunction if there was no 
proof ? 

Mr. Foster. We did not get an injunction on violence. We got an 
injunction, because of the election which was held, that they could not 
picket us or they could not advertise against us as being unfair. 

The Chairman. I thought you said the violence stopped after the 
injunction was granted. 

Mr. Foster. It did. 

The Chairman. That is a peculiar circumstance; wouldn't you 
think? 

Mr. Foster. It could be. 

The Chairman. Do you have any doubt if you had not gotten the 
injunction the violence would have continued? 

Mr. Foster. I think the violence had stopped before I got the per- 
manent injunction. I think the permanent injunction — do you have 
the date on which that was issued? I don't. I know it was warm 
weather. It must have been about June. I don't think we had any 
violence since about April. 

The Chairman. Had you had any violence before this vote and 
before you entered into this contract ? 

Mr. Foster. No. 

The Chairman. How long before had you had any violence ? 

Mr. Foster. We had never had any since we had the company. 

The Chairman. How long had you had the company ? 

Mr. Foster. Since 1946. 

The Chairman. From 1946 up to this time, 1954, was it ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. You had never had any violence ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. A period of 8 years. Immediately when you entered 
into a contract with this independent union the violence started ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. And continued how long ? 

Mr. Foster. About 4 months. 

The Chairman. And it ended after the permanent injunction ? 

Mr. Foster. I think the violence ended about 2 months before the 
permanent injunction. 

The Chairman. Did it end right after the temporary injunction? 

Mr. Foster. No. 

The Chairman. It continued for a while ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 



14374 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the information we have, it was Judge 
Holt who handed down the permanent injunction on February 23, 
1956. 

Mr. Foster. Judge Iva Lee Holt. It was about a year later, then, 
before we got the permanent injunction. I was thinking it was about 
6 months. 

The Chairman. Did you capitulate to this Teamster crowd? 

Mr. Foster. What do you mean "capitulate"" ? 

The Chairman. Sign up with them. Have you ever, since then? 

Mr. Foster. I have not talked to them since then. 

The Chairman. In other words, you continued on your operations 
with the independent union ? 

Mr. Foster. I have a Teamsters contract also with local 618. 

The Chairman. Local 618 ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. For the same group ? 

Mr. Foster. No; that is for my gasoline and service station 
employees. 

The Chairman. But not for your cabdrivers ? 

Mr. Foster. No. That is independent. 

The Chairman. Did you have that contract prior to the time this 
trouble started ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. There has been no change in that situation ? 

Mr. Foster. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You had the two contracts, one with the inde- 
pendent union, your cabdrivers, and one with the Teamster local No. 
618? 

Mr. Foster. 618. 

The Chairman. That is for your filling station operators ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. And you had that situation prior to the time your 
trouble started and you have maintained it since? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. During this period of time in which local 688 was 
causing this difficulty, were they advertising that you were unfair to 
labor? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What sort of things would they say ? 

Mr. Foster. They would pass out handbills, and had a radio pro- 
gram. In fact, I had a program on the radio and they bought a pro- 
gram with the same annomicer. Right after they would say "Ride 
Allen cabs," the same fellow would come on and say "Don't ride Al- 
len cabs." 

Senator Curtis. What did the customers do ? 

Mr. Foster. Well, our calls in the wintertime would run around 
90,000 a month and in the summertime we would run around 60,000 
a month. They would continue to call us. 

Senator Curtis. Did you notice any noticeable dropoff in business? 

Mr. Foster. No. In fact, at the time when we had our trouble, I 
think the highest month we had, ever had, was about 60,000 and since 
then we have run as high as 90,000 a month in calls. 

Senator Curtis. You don't think the advertising did any good ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14375 

Mr. Foster. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did they say anything in this advertising that there 
had been a vote and that your employees had selected this other union ? 

Mr. Foster. No, they did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your colored drivers, did they have difficulty trans- 
ferring to other taxicab companies after they worked for you ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. The other companies would refuse to hire them 
if they worked for Allen. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the reason for that ? 

Mr. Foster. Well, I only know what I read in the paper. When 
one of the boys tried to get to the other company, the paper said that 
Mr. Bommarito said that if he worked for Allen, they could not work 
for them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did any of the other drivers tell you that ? 

Mr. Foster. They said they were turned down because they worked 
for me. 

Mr. Kennedy. That the Teamsters would not allow them to work 
for another cab company because they had worked for you and they 
had voted to join this independent union ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Chubby Smith, was he one of those ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. James Earle ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. "Ivory" Gardner ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. James Perkins ? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Fisher Harris ? 

Mr. Foster. Eight. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is five drivers, at least, who were unable to 
get jobs with other taxicab companies because they had worked with 
you? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they were prevented from getting their jobs by 
the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have an affidavit here, Mr. Chairman, by one of 
them. 

The Chairman. The affidavit may be printed in the record in full 
at this point. This affidavit is from Mr. Harris, I believe, the one 
you spoke of. 

Mr. Foster. Fisher Harris. 

The Chairman. Read the pertinent parts. 

Mr. Kennedy (reading) : 

In 1954 an independent union, known as the United Chauffeurs' Association, 
formed by the drivers of the Allen Cab Co. Teamsters Local 405 picketed the 
Allen Cab Co., and there was violence, such as smashing of cabs and shooting at 
drivers, until Allen Cab Co. obtained an injunction. 

I went to work as a driver for Allen in 1955 and worked until May 1957. 
I was required to join the United Chauffeurs Association. I paid an initiation 
fee of $15 and $3 a month in dues. In 1957 I quit my job at Allen and went to 
work for the Mound City Yellow Cab Co. as a driver. I obtained a working 
permit from Teamsters Local 405, under which I was to pay $10 a week for 



14376 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

5 weeks. This would total $50 which would then be accepted as my initiation 
fee ; I worked 6 days after which I was sent word to report to the union hall. 
At the hall, Joe Bommarito, business agent, told me he heard I had worked for 
Allen Cab Co. I admitted I had, after which he said I could not become a 
member of the union. He said that so far as he was concerned, the Allen Cab 
Co. was still on strike, and that anyone who had been a member of any inde- 
pendent union could not drive for any company which had a contract with the 
union. 

I was not allowed to work for Yellow Cabs after that incident. Eugene Son- 
nenshine, Yellow Cab superintendent, told me that if I could get clearance from 
the Teamsters I could go back to work for him. 

I took it up with Bommarito about four times with the same results. He told 
me I would just have to find other work unless I could bring all of the Allen Cab 
drivers over to join his union. The owner of Ace Cab Co., which also has a con- 
tract with local 405, offered me a job as a driver, and told me to have Bommarito 
call him. I talked to Bommarito again, but he said matters had not changed, 
and he refused to call the owner of Ace Cabs. He said I was wasting my time 
and his, too. 

Other former Allen drivers who were denied membership in 405 are Perkins 
and James Earle and Leroy Smith. Perkins and Earle worked 4 months for 
Yellow before it was discovered that they had worked for Allen and were dis- 
missed. They had by that time served their 30 days' probation, paid their initia- 
tion fees, and had paid their dues. 

I appealed to the National Labor Relations Board which at first told me that 
I had a good case, but later said that interstate commerce was not involved and 
nothing could be done for me. I retained an attorney, but Bommarito would 
not talk to him and no legal action was taken. I am now a custodian for the city 
of St. Louis and work part time as a driver for Allen Cabs. 

(The document referred to follows :) 

Affidavit 

St. Louis, Mo., January 27, 1958. 

1. I, Fisher Harris, voluntarily make this statement to Irwin Langenbacher, 
who has identified himself as an assistant counsel, United States Senate Com- 
mittee on Labor and Management. 

2. In 1954 an independent union, known as the United Chauffeurs Association, 
formed by the drivers of the Allen Cab Co. Teamsters Local 405 picketed the 
Allen Cab Co., and there was violence such as smashing of cabs and shooting at 
drivers, until Allen Cab Co. obtained an injunction. 

3. I went to work as a driver for Allen in 1955 and worked until May 1957. 
I was required to join the United Chauffeurs' Association. I paid an initiation 
fee of $15 and $3 a month in dues. In 1957 I quit my job at Allen and went to 
work for the Mound City Yellow Cab Co. as a driver. I obtained a working 
permit from Teamsters Local 405, under which I was to pay $10 a week for 5 
weeks. This would total $50 which would then be accepted as my initiation fee. 
I worked 6 days after which I was sent word to report to the union hall. At the 
hall, Joe Bommarito, business agent, told me he heard I had worked for Allen 
Cab Co. I admitted I had, after which he said I could not become a member of 
the union. He said that so far as he was concerned, the Allen Cab Co. was still 
on strike, and that anyone who had been a member of any independent union 
could not drive for any company which had a contract with the union. 

I was not allowed to work for Yellow Cabs after that incident. Eugene Son- 
nenshine, Yellow Cab superintendent, told me that if I could get clearance from 
the Teamsters I could go back to work for him. 

4. I took it up with Bommarito about four times with the same results. He 
told me I would just have to find other work unless I could bring all of the Allen 
Cab drivers over to join his union. The owner of Ace Cab Co., which also has 
a contract with local 405, offered me a job as a driver, and told me to have Bom- 
marito call him. I talked to Bommarito again, but he said matters had not 
changed, and he refused to call the owner of Ace Cabs. He said I was wasting 
my time and his too. 

5. Other former Allen drivers who were denied membership in 405 are Perkins 
and James Earle and Leroy Smith. Perkins and Earle worked 4 months for 
Yellow before it was discovered that they had worked for Allen and were dis- 
missed. They had by that time served their 30 days' probation, paid their initia- 
tion fees, and had paid their dues. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14377 

6. I appealed to the National Labor Relations Board which at first told me that 
I had a good case, but later said that interstate commerce was not involved and 
nothing could be done for me. I retained an attorney, but Bommarito would not 
talk to him and no legal action was taken. I am now a custodian for the city 
of St. Louis and work part time as a driver for Allen Cabs. 

Fisheb Harris. 
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 29th day of January 1958. 

Grace L. Haskell, 

Notary Public. 
My commission expires June 10, 1960. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why did the drivers select the independent union? 
Did you help the independent union ? 

Mr. Foster. No, sir. I was away on vacation when it started 
happening. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you try to get your drivers to sign up in the 
independent union rather than the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Foster. I had nothing to do with it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why did they switch from the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Foster. One of the drivers told me after it happened that one 
of his reasons was that the union was out to try to snatch them off 
the cabs on the good days when business was good on account of union 
dues, and some of them would not have their receipts in their pockets 
and they would take them off the cabs, even though they had paid 
their union dues but did not have the receipts. 

Mr. Kennedy. They did not feel that they were being treated 
properly ? 

Mr. Foster. That is what one of the drivers told me, yes. 

Senator Curtis. Do you mean to say that the union went to cabs 
and stopped the driver from proceeding because he did not have his 
receipt with him ? 

Mr. Foster. That is what they told me. I was away on vacation 
when this happened. 

Senator Curtis. That is an unusual circumstance. I am not doubt- 
ing your word, but the idea of them assuming the authority of law to 
stop people on the street and demand them to show what they had and 
take them out of their cab 

Mr. Foster. I think it happened mostly at the stand, not on the 
streets. 

Senator Curtis. At the stand ? 

Mr. Foster. At the cabstand. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about Dandridge? Did they like Dandridge? 

Mr. Foster. I think he was one of them that was up there while I 
was on vacation, collecting dues, and the one they had the trouble 
with. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of trouble did they have with him ? 

Mr. Foster. Well, I mean, he was pulling them off the cabs. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your colored taxicab drivers, can they go any place 
in St. Louis in your cab company ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can they go any place in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Foster. Well, the city issues a permit and everybody's permit is 
the same whether it is a colored driver or whether it is a white driver. 

Mr. Kennedy. Will the Teamsters allow them to go to any hotels 
and 



14378 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Foster. I don't know whether it is the Teamsters that stops 
them but somebody stops them. They cannot pick up the hotels or 
Union Station. 

Mr. Kennedy. They cannot pick up at Union Station ? 

Mr. Foster. The starter will not load them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the reason for that? 

Mr. Foster. Well, the starter there, I think, is employed by the 
Teamsters. I don't know the setup. Our call business has always 
Deen good and we have never had too many men play those places. I 
think they employ the starter there. 

Mr. Kennedy. They employ him, the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Foster. Either they employ him or each man pays him so 
much. I am not sure. When they get a load, they pay the starter 
maybe 15 cents or something, the driver himself. 

Mr. Kennedy. But they wouldn't allow your drivers to go into 
Union Station? 

Mr. Foster. Well, they can go and get there in line, but when they 
come up and are Ace men, they will load the cab behind them. 

Mr. Kennedy. So your drivers in the city of St. Louis cannot pick 
up passengers at the railroad station ? 

Mr. Foster. The railroad station, bus station, or hotels. 

Mr. Kennedy. Or the hotels ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are you the only colored cab company? 

Mr. Foster. No ; there are about five others. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it the same kind of thing with the starters at 
these hotels also ? 

Mr. Foster. The starters will not load my men. 

The Chairman. Who are they discriminating against, you or the 
Negro cabdrivers ? 

Mr. Foster. No, they will load other Negro cab companies. 

The Chairman. It is a discrimination against your company? 

Mr. Foster. Against Allen ; that is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can't the city do anything about that ? 

Mr. Foster. I suppose they could, if we were really interested in 
that business. 

Senator Curtis. Do they drive onto the railroad premises to load 
there? 

Mr. Foster. No. Yellow Cab has that exclusively in St. Louis, 
the railroad property. This is on the street. 

Senator Curtis. You are talking about being discriminated against 
on the public street ? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions ? 

If not, thank you very much, Mr. Foster. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Barney Dandridge. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee' shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I do. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14379 

TESTIMONY OF BARNEY DANDRIDGE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BERNARD J. MELLMAN 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Dandridge. Barney Dandridge. I live at 625 North Leonard, 
St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. What do you do ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you have a lawyer? 

Mr. Dandridge. Yes, I do. 

The Chairman. Identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Mellman. I am Bernard J. Mellman, 408 Olive Street, St. 
Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. How much do you weigh ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Would you mind telling that ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I don't know. 

The Chairman. Sir ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I don't know. 

The Chairman. You have no curiosity about it ? 

Mr. Dandridge. No. I don't want to know. 

The Chairman. You don't want to know. Well, if you don't, I 
don't. 

Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. We understand you are no longer with the Team- 
sters' Union, Mr. Dandridge ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And that you are now employed as a special deputy 
constable in the city of St. Louis ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you mean he is an official of St. Louis ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I understand that it is not a full-time job, but you 
serve summonses and subpenas and do work of that kind. 

Is that right, Mr. Dandridge ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. I suggest that the city of St. Louis, the authorities, 
be notified of this performance. I want to see if city authorities, gov- 
ernmental authorities, will condone this obvious flagrant abuse of the 
fifth-amendment privileges. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. During the strike, you were a shop steward for local 
688 and employed by the St. Louis American Cab Co. ; is that right ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 



14380 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. And, during the strike, the instructions were that 
all stewards were to take orders from you ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Where were you born ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Dandridge. Haslet, Tex. 

The Chairman. Are you an American citizen now ? 

Mr. Dandridge. Yes. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. I was mistaken on that. When the strike started, 
the stewards were not required to take orders from you, but were re- 
quired to take orders from Herman Hendricks, is that right? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Kennedy. Part of your job, as you described it to us originally 
in an interview, was that you would stop the drivers from the Allen 
Cab Co., warn them that there might be trouble, and ask them to 
come over to your side. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. We understand that you carried a shotgun for your 
own protection. Is that right ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were jailed for flourishing a weapon. Isn't it 
correct that the Teamsters paid for your lawyer, for your bondsman, 
and for your lost time during that time ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The union took care of all your bills during that 
period of time, is that right ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. What business is he in now ? 

Mr. Kennedy. The only business that we have is that he is a special 
deputy constable for the city of St. Louis, Mr. Chairman. He left 
the Teamsters Union in 1957 because he felt that Negro members did 
not have equal rights with the white members of the union. Is that 
right? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you participate in any of this violence that has 
been described to the committee ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14381 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who was responsible for setting these 
taxicabs on fire, and for firing at the passengers, for turning the cabs 
over, and the rest of this vandalism and violence % 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you responsible for any of it yourself ? 

Mr. Dandridge. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. You will remain under your present subpena, sub- 
ject to being recalled by the committee at such time as it may desire to 
interrogate you further. 

Do you accept that recognizance ? 

Mr. Dandridge. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You will be given reasonable notice. Do you agree 
to appear? 

Mr. Dandridge. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You may stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Herman Hendricks. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God % 

Mr. Hendricks. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HERMAN HENDRICKS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BERNARD J. MELLMAN 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Hendricks. My name is Herman Hendricks. I live at 3952 
Sullivan, St. Louis 7, Mo. 

The Chairman. What is that you have in your hand ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you have a lawyer ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I do. 

The Chairman. Let the record show the saine counsel appears for 
this witness that appeared for the preceding witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hendricks, you are a business agent for local 
688, is that correct ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You worked for Mr. Gibbons' local ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. May I ask you is he now employed by the union ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He is business agent for 688, Mr. Gibbons' own local, 
and we have a great deal of information regarding the activities of Mr. 



14382 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Hendricks. Can you tell us what it was in your backgroud, Mr. 
Hendricks, that attracted you to Mr. Gibbons ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many times had you been arrested prior to be- 
coming a business agent for Mr. Gibbons' local ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the information we have, you have been 
arrested about 13 times ; is that right ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were arrested in 1938 for carrying a concealed 
weapon ; you were arrested in 1939 as a fugitive from St. Louis ; anol in 
1940 for vagrancy, for which you received 1 year in the city work- 
house. 

Then, in 1945, you had an interesting violation of the Marihuana Act 
dealing with narcotics. You received 2 years at Terre Haute, Ind. ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were pushing dope, were you ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Did Mr. Gibbons know of this record when he hired 
you? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Did you emphasize this record in order to make 
yourself — to convince Mr. Gibbons you were eligible for employment 
as business agent in his union ? Did you ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you selling marihuana to children, or whom 
were you selling to ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1950, for peace disturbance you received a fine of 
$100; is that right? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privlege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. From 1953 through 1958, you were arrested about 
seven times for assault, peace disturbance, malicious destruction of 
property, suspicion of larceny, and suspicion of carrying a concealed 
weapon, is that correct, with no convictions ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14383 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privlege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. In addition to these specific matters, you have been 
arrested — we have in addition to that — you have been picked up on 
approximately 100 different occasions by the police for investigation. 
Is that right? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you were on the payroll of local 688, but you 
participated, did you not, in this strike in 1955 against the Allen Cab 
Co.? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respecfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Despite the fact that the election on October 12, 
1954, had been 99 to 10 in favor of the independent union, on Novem- 
ber 1 you started participating in picketing, did you not of the Allen 
Cab Co.? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Two days after the election, didn't you demand from 
the Allen Cab Co. that they fire five drivers and state to an official 
of the cab company that you would use other means if the company 
did not comply ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, on November 1, the violence started with 
the firing of the cab, the arson of certain of the cabs — the wrecking 
of others — the beating of cabdrivers. Did you participate in any of 
that? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you participate in the firing of the cab where 
they had the 2 women and the child in the cab, where some 10 bullets 
hit the cab? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
and invoke my privilege under the fiifth amendment not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were arrested or apprehended shortly after- 
ward. Wasn't there a gun found in your automobile? Will you 
tell us what the gun was; why you were carrying it around? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
and invoke my privilege under the fiifth amendment not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, isn't it correct that you received money from 
local 405, as well as your regular salary and expenses from local 688, 
Mr. Gibbons' union ? 



14384 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
and invoke my privilege under the fiifth amendment not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you received this money, did you not, during 
the Yellow Cab strike of 1953 ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and 
and invoke my privilege under the fiifth amendment not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. I call Mr. Eickmeyer to give the committee informa- 
tion as to the financial arrangements which this witness has with the 
union, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Come around. 

You have examined the records have you of these two unions ? 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. Kennedy. What do the records show as far as the salaries 
of Mr. Hendricks? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Take 405 first. During the Black & White and 
the Yellow Cab strike of 405, Mr. Hendricks received 4 cash payments 
totaling $420, all charged to strike expense. 

In 1952, we have a record of Mr. Hendricks being put on the pay- 
roll of local 688 and receiving $1,150 in salary. Then in 1953, Mr. 
Hendricks received $3,325 in salary and $1,325 in expense. 

The Chairman. From what union ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Local 688. This was all 688. 

In 1954 Mr. Hendricks received $5,200 in salary and $1,300 in ex- 
penses. In 1955 he received $5,200 in salary and $1,300 in expenses 
and in 1956 he received the same, $5,200 in salary and $1,300 in ex- 
penses. 

We did not have the total records for 1957 but I imagine it would 
show the same, $5,200 salary and $1,300 expenses. 

TESTIMONY OF HERMAN HENDRICKS, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. You also have an automobile available for your use, 
Mr. Hendricks? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. This is a pattern, is it not, through the whole of the 
Central Conference of Teamsters, that you advance in these various 
important locals only if you have a criminal or police record ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. After you have the criminal record, is it a require- 
ment, is it not, that you be willing to commit vandalism and other acts ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I respectfully decline to answer the question and 
invoke my privilege under the fifth amendment not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you have any questions, Senator Curtis ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14385 

Senator Curtis. No questions. 

The Chairman. You will remain under your present subpena sub- 
ject to being recalled by the committee any time it may desire to inter- 
rogate you. Do you accept that recognizance ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I do. 

The Chairman. Do you agree to appear ? 

Mr. Hendricks. I do. 

The Chairman. You will be given reasonable notice of the time 
and place. Stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Don Cortor. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence given 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Cortor. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD DONALD CORTOR 

The Chairman. Be seated. State your name, your place of resi- 
dence, and your business or occupation. 

Mr. Cortor. My name is Harold Donald Cortor, 3452 Humphrey 
Street, St. Louis, Mo. I am in the air-conditioning business. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. Do you have counsel % 

Mr. Cortor. No ; I waive counsel. 

The Chairman. Thank you. 

Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Cortor, you were a member of local 405 ? 

Mr. Cortor. I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. From 1950 to 1956? 

Mr. Cortor. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. You drove a taxicab at that time ? 

Mr. Cortor. Laclede Cab Co. 

Mr. Kennedy. During that same period of time were you going to 
school ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes ; I was attending St. Louis University. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you graduate? 

Mr. Cortor. I did in 1952. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was while you were driving a cab ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you chairman of local 405, the financial com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Cortor. I was appointed to that position in approximately 
November of 1955. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long did you hold it ? 

Mr. Cortor. Well, officially until I was expelled, I suppose. But 
I believe that I last met in the budget committee meeting approxi- 
mately June of 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. When were you expelled from the union ? 

Mr. Cortor. It lasted quite some time. My final expulsion by the 
general executive board in Washington was September 1957. 

Mr. Kennedy. We will go into that in a few moments but I would 
like to have you give the background of the local to the committee. 
Were you in the local at the time Mr. Tom Flynn came out to clean 
up the situation in St. Louis ? 



14386 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Cortor. Yes ; I certainly was. I was not active in the local at 
that time. In fact at that time I was not even paying dues because 
none of us were. A very few men in the local were under checkoff 
system in the various garages and there seemed to be enough money 
to operate the union under the conditions under which it was being 
operated. I had heard that it was being operated by hoodlums and 
racketeers and so forth. So we welcomed Mr. Flynn with open arms 
when he did come to St. Louis to clean up the situation. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did he bring with him to help clean it up ? 

Mr. Cortor. Harold Gibbons. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there anybody else? 

Mr. Cortor. I heard that Barney Baker was there. I talked to prac- 
tically every man. The arrangement for that meeting for cabdrivers 
of local 405 was made by a close personal friend of mine, Weast. I 
have gone over every aspect of that particular meeting when they met 
with Mr. Flynn. They asked him to put 405 in trusteeship. I have 
talked to every person who was in that room also. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Baker have anything to do with it ? 

Mr. Cortor. They told me Mr. Baker was there. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was a considerable amount of violence, was 
there not, in the strike that occurred at the end of 1953, December 
1953 ? 

Mr. Cortor. Well, December 1953 we had a strike of considerable 
violence, the Yellow Cab Co., in the city of St. Louis. Prior to that 
there had been a 7- week strike of Black & White Cab Co. where there 
was no violence because no cabs were operating. At the start of the 
Yellow Cab strike the company encouraged some of the drivers to 
continue working. A few of them did and violence occurred in order 
to remove those taxicabs from the street and those members were still 
trying to work. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand and know who was paying the 
bills for these men that were active in trying to get the Yellow Cabs 
off the street ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes ; I do. A vote was taken by the membership that 
each driver who was working in the city would contribute $1 a day 
of his earnings to the strike benefit fund to support the striking cab- 
drivers. 

All of us at the other companies who were working contributed that 
dollar a day. No financial records apparently have apparently been 
produced to what happened to our money. It was handled very 
loosely. As to that I can testify. I notice you have not been able 
to get hold of those records yourself. The strike was conducted in I 
would say a very very highhanded method. 

Violence was quite prevalent. I knew it was going on. Since that 
time I have talked to at least 8 or 10 people who have been asked to 
commit violence throughout that Yellow Cab strike. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were the Teamster officials who were giving 
instructions on it ? 

Mr. Cortor. The information I received on that was primarily Dick 
Kavner and Lou Berra who were the ones who were active in the real 
leadership. Others would follow with business relations. Saltzman, 
William Rudolph, and in many occasions Harold Gibbons was present. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have some firsthand information testimony on 
that. Yours is all hearsay. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14387 

Mr. Cortor. All I can say about this violence is hearsay from talk- 
ing to the men who did the violent acts. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you understood that Joe Bommarito injured 
his back in connection with the strike ? 

Mr. Corton. Yes. Well, perhaps injured in a strike, perhaps he 
didn't. But anyway the union paid his hospital bills. Personally I 
don't think Joe Bommarito got hurt trying to turn over a taxicab. 

The Chairman. If I understand you, he tried to have somebody 
else do the dirty work ? 

Mr. Cortor. Well, in recent years; yes. He has come down con- 
siderably. Joe Bommarito is probably most loud mouth. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1956 you had a wildcat strike ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes; we did. I think I can explain that quite fully 
because I was involved in it from the very beginning. I became the 
leader of the group who withdrew from local 405 as a result of this 
strike. There had been quite some concern going on in the city that 
they were going to place colored drivers on what at that time was 
segregated taxicabs in a white cab company. They were just being 
put to work without any notification to the membership or any vote 
being taken or anything else. Because of all the rumors flying a 
bunch of the officers of the local 405 requested a meeting with our 
trustee, Harold J. Gibbons, at which time they were going to discuss 
it with him to see if the rumors were true. 

The meeting was held August 14. I was not exactly a steward of 
local 405 but I did manage to attend that meeting. At that time I 
asked Harold Gibbons if he would put off integration to a more op- 
portune time to give the drivers time to become educated to the idea, 
to give the citizens of St. Louis time. 

It had already integrated the streetcar and bus drivers with no dis- 
turbance. I felt it could be done just as well with the cab industry. 
Harold Gibbons at that meeting informed me that we had an open- 
shop contract with the cabdrivers and that those drivers would be 
sent from the union hall to the cab company and they would put the 
cabdrivers to work. My main objection to the new drivers is that 
there is not enough cab business to go around for drivers who drive 
12 months a year. 

You put on additional cabs in St. Louis in August, it will hurt, 
whether they are white, colored, or green. The additional drivers 
will hurt the income of those drivers presently working. 

It did turn out it was an open-shop contract such as I told Gibbons 
it was. As a result, Harold Gibbons looked me straight in the eye 
and said the policy will remain the same. That was on Wednesday. 
On Friday they brought a colored driver to the Laclede Cab lot where 
I was employed. They informed the management this is the driver 
who is going to work on the Laclede Cab tomorrow morning at 10 
o'clock. As a result, most of the men in the city learned about these 
things partially from me, the officers, and stewards at a meeting which 
I attended. 

It was no longer rumor but it was fact. By the time Friday rolled 
around it was a fact. The following day colored drivers were placed 
in what had formerly been white cab companies, at the same date, at 
the same time. We have four large white cab companies. As a result, 
the men on the street that night, I don't know where the leadership 
came from but somewhere along the line everybody got together 



14388 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

and we had a spontaneous strike. It just grew up right out of the 
street. The men gathered in groups, but 2 o'clock in the morning they 
had taken cabs in the lot. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you objecting to having any colored drivers 
in your taxicab company ? 

Mr. Cortor. At that particular time of the year, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that just colored drivers or any drivers? 

Mr. Cortor. Any drivers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you objecting to having colored drivers ? 

Mr. Cortor. No ; I have never in my life raised my voice on inte- 
gration, either the cab industry or anything else. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was your problem, what was your objection? 

Mr. Cortor. Our biggest problem in St. Louis is that the popula- 
tion of St. Louis is, roughly speaking, about 20 to 24 percent colored, 
but in the cab business in St, Louis over 40 percent of the drivers in 
the cab business work for the colored cab company. 

There was no job equity at all. Proportionally they had twice as 
many jobs in the cab industry in any other particular type of work. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you notify them that you would accept colored 
drivers ? 

Mr. Cortor. I was in no position to notify them. The membership 
was never informed. These officers and stewards were informed on 
August 14 that integration was to take place on August 18. The 
membership generally speaking, of the Teamsters local in St. Louis 
area, they do not have general membership meetings during the sum- 
mer months. July and August, usually there are no monthly meet- 
ings held. 

This thing transpired at the time when there was no general mem- 
bership meeting scheduled and they made no provision for a special 
membership meeting to inform the membership. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any date given as the time that colored 
drivers could be assimilated into it ? 

Mr. Cortor. I made the suggestion of November 1. My reason for 
taking that particular date out of the air was that at that time your 
cab business is in the ascendency. Bad weather is coming and cab 
business picks up. You have a natural increase in business, after 
which time you can absorb additional drivers and you can also adjust 
yourselves to changes in time. People have to ride cabs in Novem- 
ber; in June, July, and August they can wait on street corners for 
buses. When you have snow and ice and bad weather conditions and 
cold weather, they have to ride cabs. St. Louis is not a good cab town. 
It is the kind of a town where people ride taxicabs only when they 
have to. It is not necessarily a convenience for them. It is ne- 
cessity. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you and the other leaders of this insurgent group, 
or the people who went out on the wildcat strike, did give a date as 
to when colored drivers could be on ? 

Mr. Cortor. That was merely a suggestion on my part to Harold J. 
Gibbons. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was not just a blanket refusal to accept colored 
drivers ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14389 

Mr. Cortor. No; there was no blanket refusal by that group of 
men, because they were told they would have to take them, although 
before we left the room Harold Gibbons said the hiring policies would 
remain the same. At that time, the hiring policy was for the com- 
pany to hire drivers, and after they hired them they would go to the 
union hall and be cleared, and then after being hired go back to the 
company on a permit and then the contract stated that after 30 days 
after starting to go to work, they must pay the union initiation and 
become members of the union, which is the provision of an open shop 
contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. What occurred during the wildcat strike ? 

Mr. Cortor. I still have in my possession the signatures of 762 men 
who voluntarily joined an independent union which I formed during 
that strike. After meeting with Harold Gibbons on August 14 and 
having a discussion with him, when I made a direct appeal to him 
to give local 405 local autonomy, take us out of trusteeship, he told me 
directly he would give us local autonomy "when Hell freezes over." 
That is a quotation of Harold J. Gibbons. As a result, I left that meet- 
ing of August 14, and I was accompanied by three other members, 
and we went to consult a lawyer to see if there was some way that 
we could get local autonomy within the Teamster structure. We went 
with William Howe. I think it is No. 22 South Central, Clayton, Mo. 
The reason he was selected as our lawyer was because he had received 
local autonomy for the laborers union or a similar union that had been 
in trusteeship. We met with Mr. Howe. We gave him the provisions 
under which we wanted to get local autonomy. He asked us to deliver 
to him a copy of our constitution and so forth, and said it would be 
necessary for at least one of our group to accompany him to Washing- 
ton to make a personal petition to the International Brotherhood of 
Teamsters. 

Later, after we had left his office, it was agreed by the group of 
four men that I should be the one that Avould accompany William 
Howe to Washington. At that time we were still planning to try to 
get local autonomy within the Teamster structure. That was our 
complete plan. However, this spontaneous strike sort of blew it up. 

The Chairman. In other words, all you wanted to do was to get 
your local back in control of the men and out of control of a trustee ? 

Mr. Cortor. Definitely. And not only trustee, but his appointed 
business agents. 

The Chairman. You were not trying to get out of the Teamsters 
Union International ? 

Mr. Cortor. We were not. 

The Chairman. You wanted to stay in ? 

Mr. Cortor. At that particular time, that was our intention, was to 
remain in the union but to have our own elected officers and conduct 
our own affairs our own way, and not at the instigation or the whim of 
Harold J. Gibbons. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Cortor. On August 14, I mean on August 18, when this wild- 
cat strike took place, it just so happened that most of the men did not 
trust me because I had never spoken against the colored people; in 
fact I had spoken in favor of integration, or at least it condoned it, 
and when they were talking about a wildcat strike I tried to talk it 
down, because we had already started our plans for trying to get local 



14390 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

autonomy. As a result, when the cab strike occurred on August 18, 
approximately 2 o'clock in the morning, I was still working. I con- 
tinued working until almost 4 o'clock that morning, which is my normal 
time to turn in at the Laclede Cab Co. garage. When I pulled up on 
the lot, all the cabs were there. I think I was the last one on the street. 
Then things were out of our hands. As soon as I pulled on the lot, and 
I saw this cab strike had started, I wanted to find out if we were 
the only ones. 

So I rode in a Five Point Taxicab with two other drivers, one from 
Black & White and the other a Laclede driver, and visited every lot 
in the St. Louis area. The same condition prevailed at all lots. All 
the cabs were off the streets., and there were cars on the streets notifying 
drivers still working to bring the cabs in. I would say the participa- 
tion in the wildcat walkoff was 100 percent. By 5 o'clock there 
wasn't a single cab operating with a driver from 405, not one. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there a great deal of opposition to the way the 
union has been run ? 

Mr. Cortor. There was opposition to the way that union was run 
for a good many years. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were chairman of the financial committee. 
Were you able to get information as to the union's finances? 

Mr. Cortor. I was trying desperately, which is the reason that we 
finally forced the selection of that committee from the floor. The com- 
mittee wasn't appointed voluntarily, we had been trying to get a 
financial committee for over 2 years. We had been promised we could 
have one, if you examine the records, to keep good books and so forth. 

Finally through a bunch of very, very small technical items on the 
financial reports that I kept hammering at and made them appear 
about which there was something not quite honest, the men finally 
demanded more or less that a financial committee be set up, and I think 
the general consensus of opinion was that I should be on that financial 
committee. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you able to get the financial reports ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes ; we were. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you able to get full information about the 
finances ? 

Mr. Cortor. At the particular time, for each individual month, from 
that time on, I got the complete and full information of every trans- 
action, except that I could not get possession of the vouchers. But I 
met monthly with Charles Chukway, the auditor of the union, and we 
went over the monthly accounts of various items. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why didn't you get the vouchers? 

Mr. Cortor. They weren't made available to us. At that time I was 
still trying to worm my way into where I was trusted enough to 
sneak them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just answer the question. You were not able to get 
the vouchers ? 

Mr. Cortor. I never could. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you request them ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes ; I have requested them. 

Mr. Kennedy. You went out on this strike, this wildcat striKe. 
How long did it last ? 

Mr. Cortor. 12 days. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14391 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any violence in connection with it ? 

Mr. Cortor. Only on one occasion there was violence, and that was 
where we were holding a meeting that evening at Boyle and Lindell, 
the Eagles Hall, and, on the way home from our meeting, one of the 
men on strike, a man who joined our independent union, was assaulted 
by a squad of goons, who I figured were members of the Teamsters 
or at least instigated into the attack by the Teamster organization. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you had no proof of that ? 

Mr. Cortor. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the time that Barney Baker was arrested, 
was it? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes; that is the occasion. The man's name who was 
injured was Stanley McClintoc. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was hit with a baseball bat ? 

Mr. Cortor. Hit in the eye with a baseball bat ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Lou Shoulders, Jr., was there ? 

Mr. Cortor. Lou Shoulders, Jr., was also arrested. 

Mr. Kennedy. After 12 days you ran out of money ? 

Mr. Cortor. We ran out of money the first day, but struggled on 
through there, and, through donations from various taverns where we 
had jars set up and so forth, and in a 12-day period, with over 700 men, 
we were able to collect the total amount of money of some $2,500. 

Mr. Kennedy. So the men went back to work ? 

Mr. Cortor. The men — I urged the men to go back to work on the 
12th day. We had a meeting on each day of the strike. We conducted 
meetings and gave the men an actual account of what happened on that 
day. On the 12th day, I suggested they go back to work, myself. I 
had a good reason for doing so. We were knocking our brains out. 
If we kept it up, most of these men would have had to go back to work 
out of economic necessity. As a result, I don't think they could have 
looked me in the eye, so I sent them back, but still had the large amount 
of the drivers in the St. Louis area still bound to me through this asso- 
ciation of independent union. I told the men I would burn the records 
of the independent union, which I have not done to this date. The 
charter is still in effect and the names of the men are still in my posses- 
sion. It makes a very good mailing list, if I am ever able to utilize 
them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you every brought up on charges ? 

Mr. Cortor. Yes. I was brought up on charges, and we held sort of 
a trial in the Teamsters Building on September 4, 1956, immediately 
following our strike. The strike was over on August 28. In this trial, 
they ran about 43 or 45 of us through that day, sort of a production- 
line system, even though I informed them before they conducted their 
trial that the procedure was illegal and not in accord with the consti- 
tution then in effect. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just answer my question. 

Mr. Cortor. Well, we will get to it, to the other part. 

This is preliminary information. After this particular group has 
been all tried, then the Teamsters sent us a letter. Mr. Litcher re- 
ferred to the letter he received — he was one of those tried on that 
day — whereby they agreed that the procedure they followed was not 
legal and that further charges would be sent out in a proper manner. 
I think I was the first one to receive charges in the proper manner, or 



14392 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

at least in the Teamster manner. My trial was finally brought up in 
October. I believe it began on October 8, 1956. 

It lasted for 3 weeks, in the union hall at 1127 Pine. Most of the 
things I said at that trial were lies. I figured if they were lying to 
me I might as well lie right back at them. 

I figured if they were going to try 45 men, if I cost them thousands 
of dollars just trying me, they might hesitate about trying the others. 
So I continued to talk. I never gave a yes or no answer, just as I am 
not doing here, you will notice. 

The Chairman. Just a moment. Just a moment. 

Mr. Cortor. I am sorry, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you think you are getting smart ? 

Mr. Cortor. No ; I am really not trying to. 

The Chairman. Well, answer : "Yes, sir." 

Mr. Cortor. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Cortor. This trial went on for 3 weeks, and, during that period 
of time, I believe we had a total of 857 pages of testimony in my par- 
ticular trial. I waited approximately 7 or 8 weeks before I received a 
decision from that trial before the local executive board. When I 
received the decision, I was found guilty. So I immediately ap- 
pealed to Joint Council 13, which was the next step in accordance 
with the constitution of the Teamsters, and my trial was held some- 
time after that, and the decision of local executive board was upheld. 
So then I immediately appealed to Washington, to the general execu- 
tive board, and I requested that I be allowed to appear in person to 
plead my case in Washington, which they did allow in September of 
1957. 

I appeared in Washington before not the general executive board 
but a committee selected by the general executive board. The results 
of that were that I was to be expelled from the Teamsters. 

The Chairman. All right. Are there any questions? If not, 
thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hartman. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hartman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HOWARD HARTMAN 

The Chairman. The committee will take a 5-minute recess. 

(Brief recess.) 

(Present at the taking of the recess: Senators McClellan and 
Curtis. ) 

(Present at the reconvening of the committee: Senators McClellan 
and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

State your name, your place of residence, and your business or 
occupation. 

Mr. Hartman. Howard H. Hartman, 3669 Robert Avenue, St. 
Louis, Mo. ; at the present time I would say I am unemployed or a 
cabdriver on strike, sir, in the city of St. Louis. With the Chair's 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14393 

permission, I would like to say this, that the group of men I am asso- 
ciated there with, I am very proud to be so. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You waive counsel, do 
you? 

Mr. Hartman. I do, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were recording secretary and a member of the 
executive board of 405 from 1954 to 1956, is that right? 

Mr. Hartman. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the local was put under trusteeship of Mr. 
Gibbons in 1953 ? 

Mr. Hartman. That is true. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that right ? 

Mr. Hartman. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And it was run then by Mr. Philip Reichardt and 
Joe Bommarito ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. Mr. Reichardt was not in there until later 
on in the picture. There was a William Rudolph. 

Mr. Kennedy. Philip Reichardt and Joe Bommarito were ap- 
pointed as secretary-treasurer and business agent respectively, is that 
right, ultimately ? 

Mr. Hartman. Ultimately ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they hold those positions at the present time? 

Mr. Hartman. That is true. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they were appointed to those positions by 
Harold Gibbons? 

Mr. Hartman. That is true. 

Mr. Kennedy. You, as a member of the executive board, did you 
know anything about the finances of the union ? 

Mr. Hartman. Very little. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you informed or were you permitted to see 
the books and records ? 

Mr. Hartman. I never did get to see the books. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever request it ? 

Mr. Hartman. We did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you told at that time ? 

Mr. Hartman. They were either in the hands of the Federal grand 
jury, the auditor was going over them, or there seemed to be one reason 
after another. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never were permitted to see them ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long were you on the executive board ? 

Mr. Hartman. For close on to 2 years. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you were recording secretary also and never 
permitted to see the books and records? 

Mr. Hartman. That is true. 

Mr. Kennedy. There were certain individuals who have been identi- 
fied as participating in the violence in the various strikes that were in 
St. Louis during 1953-54. Amongst them was Mr. Ben Saltzman, 
who was a business agent for local 405. Is that right? 

Mr. Hartman. Mr. Ben Saltzman was a business agent. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that he was kept on the payroll 
after he was indicted ? 

Mr. Hartman. We were so told ; yes, sir. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 17 



14394 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you see him or know of any work that he did 
for local 405 ? 

Mr. Hartman. From what time ? 

Mr. Kennedy. After 1954. The end of 1954 or 1955 ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, I would see him around the building. I also 
understand that he was working at one of the produce places up in 
what we call union market. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was being paid by local 405 ? 

Mr. Hartman. So we understood ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The produce market had nothing to do with 405 ? 

Mr. Hartman. Not as far as I know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever request any information as to why 
he was being paid ? 

Mr. Hartman. The statement was made that he was being paid 
until the case which was pending then in court came up to trial. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Hartman. Offhand, Mr. Kennedy, I don't recall, but it was 
someone in authority down in the office. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1953, did the membership establish a so-called 
fine fund ? 

Mr. Hartman. That they did, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And that was for the membership to 

Mr. Hartman. That fund was $3, which was voted upon by the 
membership and those members who failed to attend a meeting were 
fined $3. That was voted upon by the membership. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now that grew to about ten or eleven thousand 
dollars. 

Mr. Hartman. More than that, I believe. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money ? 

Mr. Hartman. I would say close to sixteen or eighteen thousand 
dollars. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to that money ? 

Mr. Hartman. I don't mean to be facetious or something, but that 
os something nobody ever seemed to find out. It is my understanding 
that that money was to be set aside in a separate fund. 

Mr. Kennedy. To be used for what purpose ? 

Mr. Hartman. To be used primarily for the formation of the health 
and welfare benefit of the cabdrivers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever try to find out what had happened to 
the money ? 

Mr. Hartman. Last year I found out that the money was no 
longer there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know where it had gone ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir; only the fact that the general fund owed 
the fine fund that much money. 

Senator Curtis. To whom was this money paid as it came in ? 

Mr. Hartman. The money evidently, our understanding was that 
that money was to be put into a separate fund, also, under local 405. 

Senator Curtis. To whom was it paid ? 

Mr. Hartman. It was never paid to anyone. It was supposed to be 
a building fund. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever miss a meeting ? 

Mr. Hartman. One time for which I was excused. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know of anybody that put in $3 ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14395 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir ; quite a few people. 

Senator Curtis. To whom did they give it ? 

Mr. Hartman. That money was paid into the union treasury. 

Senator Curtis. What individual did they give it to ? 

Mr. Hartman. It all depends on who accepted the money, either 
the shop steward or into the office itself. You see, we have a girl 
that takes in most of the money. 

Senator Curtis. Whose responsibility was it to put it in the bank 
and make a record of it ? 

Mr. Hartman. I would say the acting secretary-treasurer. 

Senator Curtis. Who was that ? 

Mr. Hartman. Toward the last it was Philip Reichardt. 

Senator Curtis. Who was it when you started ? 

Mr. Hartman. Ben Saltzman. 

Senator Curtis. Did you ever talk to him about that fund ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. Because at that time when Ben Saltzman 
was in that fund had not reached the proportion it did later times. 

Senator Curtis. Who was his successor ? 

Mr. Hartman. Joe Bommarito came into the picture there but not 
as acting secretary-treasurer. 

Senator Curtis. Who was acting secretary-treasurer ? 

Mr. Hartman. Philip Reichardt. 

Senator Curtis. Did you talk to him about it ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. What did he say ? 

Mr. Hartman. Mr. Reichardt was asked in an open meeting where 
the moneys were that belonged in the fine fund. He stated that it had 
been used and the belief was given to most of the membership that 
that money had been used during the so-called wildcat strike in 1956. 

Senator Curtis. You don't know what bank it was held in ; do you ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were never given an accounting for it ? 

Mr. Hartman. You say we were ? 

Mr. Kennedy. You were never ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The local had suspended general meetings and held 
just division meetings; is that right? 

Mr. Hartman. That has been a matter of considerable dissension 
among the entire membership, Mr. Kennedy. As it was originally 
set up, there would be one series of meetings, but so-called shop meet- 
ings or garage meetings, following which the entire membership 
would be asked to vote on whether or not they preferred the splitup 
meetings or one general meeting. It was later put to a vote and they 
voted to hold general meetings. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why did you start then holding shop meetings if you 
voted general meetings? 

Mr. Hartman. That is a very good question. I can't answer that. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the disadvantage of holding shop meetings? 

Mr. Hartman. There are arguments pro and con on that, Mr. Ken- 
nedy. One is that with a shop meeting you cannot possibly confine 
your own particular problems for the particular company for whom 
you are working. At a general meeting in the ideas of many— frankly, 



14396 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I go along with it — is the fact that you can present each other's prob- 
lems and act in a more concerted manner. 

Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't there a question also about the fact that as 
to certain motions that would be offered at the shop meeting there 
would be a greater possibility of handling them favorable to the 
administration than if they were offered at a general meeting? 

Mr. Hartman. What you are driving at, Mr. Kennedy, is that a 
motion made at one meeting would never be repeated at another meet- 
ing ? Is that what you mean ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Did that happen ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. One group would want something done. They 
would make a motion at a particular meeting and then that motion 
would never be mentioned at any other meeting. 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. If those who were running the union were not in 
favor of it ; is that right ? 

Mr. Hartman. Well, the reason for not bringing it up I couldn't say, 
but I will say this fact, that there were motions brought up at some 
meetings that were never read off to the other groups. 

Senator Curtis. What did your constitution and bylaws provide 
concerning general meetings open to all members in good standing? 
Do you know ? 

Mr. Hartman. I couldn't say offhand ; no, sir. 

Senator Curtis. But you do not know any change made in the con- 
stitution or bylaws that made the ending of general meetings legal ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. I think it was more a matter of personal 
opinion rather than a matter of rules to be followed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that the drivers of Ace Cab Co. 
who belonged to Joe Costello did not pay their dues as the other drivers 
did? 

Mr. Hartman. Not just in that sense. However, it looked like every 
time you saw a dues list of those behind in their dues that there were 
many more behind their dues in these cabs than there were in any 
other company, some to the extent of 5, 6, or 7 months in arrears of 
dues. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know why they were permitted to go alone: 
like that? 

Mr. Hartman. I could not say, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you resigned from the union ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why did you resign ? 

Mr. Hartman. That was following the culmination of the so-called 
wildcat strike. 

Mr. Kennedy. You resigned your position ? 

Mr. Hartman. I did as recording secretary. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you feel you did not have enough authority? 

Mr. Hartman. I do not think that the wildcat should ever have 
gone on. I believe had the membership been called together and the 
proposition explained to them, that there never would have been a 
wildcat strike. 

Mr. Kennedy. You disagreed ultimately ; your resignation was be- 
cause of your disagreement ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14397 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were the individuals who were running the union 
Bommarito and Keichardt ? 

Mr. Hartman. I don't quite understand that question. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was your reason for resigning your position 
from the union ? 

Mr. Hartman. Personally, as an officer we didn't have very much 
to say. That was my reason for resigning. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about these trials that were going on ? 

Mr. Hartman. I understood some were to be held, and, personally, 
I could not see my way clear to being a party whatever to some of the 
trials to be heard. My personal opinion was let them all go back to 
work and let past be past. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were the decisions in the various trials dictated ? 

Mr. Hartman. I don't know that of my own knowledge. However, 
I was told by members and the officers that the decisions were handed 
down from upstairs and the officers were called in and asked if that 
was their opinion, or to sign it. That is secondhand information. 

Mr. Kennedy. This information came to you from some of those 
who were actively participating ? 

Mr. Hartman. Active officers. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were the ones who were supposed to be the 
judges'? 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. They told you the decisions to be handed down in 
various cases came from upstairs ? 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were told to sign the decisions that had already 
been made ? 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was upstairs ? 

Mr. Hartman. That I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. W T ho did you understand was upstairs ? 

Mr. Hartman. I understood it came from the attorneys. 

Mr. Kennedy. Of the union ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were the ones drawing the decision up ? 

Mr. Hartman. That is what I was told ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You did not want to participate in this kind of opera- 
tion? 

Mr. Hartman. I didn't want any part of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all I have. 

The Chairman. As I understand, your union was under a trustee- 
ship? 

Mr. Hartman. That is true. 

The Chairman. Is it still under trusteeship ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. When did you resign ? 

Mr. Hartman. I believe it was September 1956. 

The Chairman. Nearly 2 years ago ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did the officers who served like you as recording 
secretary, and the other officers under the trusteeship, have any dis- 
cretion at all as to the management or operation of the union? 



14398 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Hartman. I believe a general movement has been on foot, yes, 
to educate the officers and to get them to do something. However, it 
does seem in many instances that we are still considerably under 
trusteeship. The statement was made by Mr. Gibbons that the 
minute the men could show that they could govern themselves that 
he would be more than glad to recommend local autonomy. 

The Chairman. How long has it been under trusteeship ? 

Mr. Hartman. Since 1953. 

The Chairman. Do you know of any reason why the men who com- 
pose that union do not have intelligence enough to know how to op- 
erate their union according to their will ? 

Mr. Hartman. It has always been the opinion of many of our 
group that we would be able to conduct a union. 

The Chairman. But you are denied the opportunity under this 
trusteeship ? 

Mr. Hartman. So far we are still not under local autonomy. 

The Chairman. You think if the men had had their way, if they 
had had a voice in the situation, that the so-called wildcat strike would 
have been averted ? 

Mr. Hartman. Well, that would be merely a matter of opinion, 
Senator. Our point, and in fact we tried to forestall that, several 
other officers and myself, by asking that decision be withheld and a 
general meeting be called where the whole thing could be explained 
to the membership. 

The Chairman. Who had authority to call the general meeting? 

Mr. Hartman. I would say Philip Reichardt. 

The Chairman. Who over him ? 

Mr. Hartman. That would be Mr. Gibbons. 

The Chairman. In other words, either Mr. Gibbons or Philip — 
what is the other man's name ? 

Mr. Hartman. Philip Reichardt, secretary-treasurer. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gibbons was over him, I assume. 

Mr. Hartman. That is true, sir. 

The Chairman. In other words, he was appointed by Mr. Gibbons ? 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 

The Chairman. So either him or Mr. Gibbons or he with Mr. Gib- 
bons' approval 

Mr. Hartman. Yes. 

The Chairman. Could very well call a general membership meet- 
ing. 

Mr. Hartman. That is my belief. 

The Chairman. Well, they have authority to do about everything 
else, don't they ? 

Mr. Hartman. I couldn't say as to that, but this I will say, that 
that night before the boys went out, I think I put better than 4 hours 
on the telephone talking to Mr. Reichardt, trying to get that thing fore- 
stalled. 

The Chairman. Trying to get them to call a membership meeting? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes. 

The Chairman. At a general membership meeting it is presumed 
that the members may express themselves with respect to problems 
confronting their union ? 

Mr. Hartman. That's right. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14399 

The Chairman. Now, they had no opportunity to express them- 
selves in a meeting, in an official meeting, general meeting, with respect 
to the problem that caused the strike ? 

Mr. Hartman. They expressed them in the wildcat strike. 

The Chairman. I know, but I say they had no other alternative 
insofar as expressing themselves, they had no opportunity other than 
through the strike ? 

Mr. Hartman. That's right, 

The Chairman. And you are of the opinion that if they gave that 
union its autonomy down there, that the boys who do the work and 
pay the dues would have sense enough to run a decent union ? 

Mr. Hartman. I think it would be worth a trial to find out. It 
certainly has not been going so good otherwise. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Can you drive a taxicab in St. Louis without be- 
longing to the union ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. Are there many nonunion drivers ? 

Mr. Hartman. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. How many ? 

Mr. Hartman. That I wouldn't say offhand, Senator. You see, 
St. Louis is a small town with an awful lot of municipalities all around 
it. I think right now there are 37 to 39 incorporated areas all around 
it. Practically each one has its own little individual cab company. 
In the city of St. Louis itself there is the Black and White, Ace, 
Yellow, Laclede, and the St. Louis Auto Livery. 

Senator Curtis. Can you drive for any of those without belonging 
to the union ? 

Mr. Hartman. Not at at present time. They all have contracts 
with the union, local 405. 

Senator Curtis. Those contracts are union shops that you have to 
join? 

Mr. Hartman. That is part of the agreement made between local 
405 and the companies. There are arguments on both sides of that, 
Senator. 

Senator Curtis. But it is true that anyone working in the city of 
St. Louis for these companies you mentioned, if they dislike this vio- 
lence and they dislike the idea of some sixteen or eighteen thousand 
dollars disappearing, they cannot drop out and quit paying without 
losing their jobs, can they ? 

Mr. Hartman. Well, now, you pose a question to me, sir, that I don't 
think I can answer. 

The Chairman. What were your duties as recording secretary ? 

Mr. Hartman. Primarily to keep records of the minutes of the 
meetings, sir. That is what you have subpenaed, I have them right 
here. 

The Chairman. Are you ready to deliver them ? 

Mr. Hartman. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, you may deliver them to a member of 
the staff. 

Did you get enough information with regard to the business affairs 
of the union so that you could properly and adequately perform your 
duties as recording secretary ? 



14400 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Hartman. Yes. 

The Chairmn. Any other questions ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. May I call three witnesses at one time ? 

Tre Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Louis Shoulders, Mr. "Stormy" Harvill, and Mr. 
"Babe"Harvill. 

The Chairman. Will you stand and be sworn ? 

Do each of you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. George Harvtll. I do. 

Mr. Shoulders. I do. 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE ANDREW HARVILL, JR., LOUIS SHOUL- 
DERS, JR., AND WILBOURNE HARVILL, ACCOMPANIELD BY 
COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN 

The Chairman. Beginning on my left, give your name, your place 
of residence, and your business or occupation. 

Mr. George Harvill. George Andrew Harvill, Jr., 8841 Argyle 
Avenue, Overland, Mo. 

The Chairman. Did you give us your occupation ? 

Mr. George Harvill. No. 

The Chairman. Will you give that to us ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline under the fifth amend- 
ment to answer on the ground that it might tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. The next one, the one in the center, what is your 
name, your residence, and your place of business, please? 

Mr. Shoulders. Louis Shoulders, Jr., 5318 Theodosia Avenue, St. 
Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Would you like, Mr. Shoulders, to give us your 
business or occupation, please ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. All right, the one on my right. What is your name ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. Wilbourne Harvill, 5904 Enright Avenue, 
St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Mr. Harvill, will you be kind enough to tell the 
committee what kind of business you are in and what your occupa- 
tion is ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline under the fifth 
amendment not to answer on the ground that it might tend to in- 
criminate me. 

The Chairman. That is a pretty fine kettle of fish, is it not ? 

Do you have a lawyer ? 

Mr. Shoulders. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You all have the same lawyer ? All right, let the 
record speak as to who the counsel is for these witnesses. 

Mr. Mellman. I am Bernard J. Mellman, attorney, at 408 Olive 
Street, St. Louis, Mo. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14401 

The Chairman. Mr. Kennedy, you may proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Shoulders, could you tell us what your occupa- 
tion has been since 1950 ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are a so-called muscleman; with the help of 
2 or 3 or 5 people you go around and beat 1 person up? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Are they in the employ or identified with the 
union? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

For instance, according to the information we have, in September 
1954 you and a group of others, Mr. Shoulders, were paid by the 
union and sent by Mr. Harold Gibbons to take part in an organiza- 
tional drive against nonunion plumbers in Granite City, 111. ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You and a group of other goons were sent over there 
to beat up some of the nonunion plumbers ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were sent over there by Harold Gibbons ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You received $25 for going over there ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You received $25 for each day you went over there ; 
isn't that right ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. The union paid on 1 occasion $125 to send people 
over there, and on another occasion $200. On 1 occasion you got $25 
for going over, and on the other occasion $50 ; is that correct ? _ 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. I find here photostatic copies of receipts apparently 
signed by an L. Shoulders. One is signed in the amount of $25, and 
the other signed in the amount of $50. The first one is dated Septem- 
ber 13, 1954, and the second one dated September 15, 1954, and the 
voucher attached to them says, "Lost time, Granite City strike, Shoul- 
ders, G. Reichardt, Luciano, Barnes, Giardano, $25 each," and the 
other for $50 each mentions the same parties, mentions Shoulders, 
Luciano, Barnes, and Giardano. 

I ask you to examine the photostatic copies of these vouchers and 
the two signatures where it appears to be "L. Shoulders," and ask you 
to state whether you identify your signature on those receipts. 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Have you examined the voucher ? 

Mr. Shoulders. Yes. 



14402 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. You still decline to say whether that has your 
signature? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Did you receive that money ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Were you paid that money for beating up people 
or committing other acts of violence ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Are you a good goon or just a cheap one? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Is $25 a day a high price for a goon, or a low price ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Let that document be made exhibit No. 84. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 84" for ref- 
erence, and may be found in the files of the select committee. ) 

Mr. Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, the time they went over there they 
met a group that was bigger and tougher than they were. The 
plumbers, when they got over there, had pipes and they found that 
they could not do anything with them. So they just sat around, got 
scared and went home. 

They went back and tried to get reinforcements. They went back 
and they still were too tough for them. So Mr. Shoulders and his 
group, when they were not able to sneak up on these people, were not 
able to hit them with overwhelming numbers, went back. Isn't 
that correct, Mr. Shoulders ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

(At this point, the following members were present : Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. Do you consider that you were overpaid or under- 
paid? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Who sent you ? Who sent you up there ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that Mr. Harold Gibbons is the one 
that hired you and sent you over there ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. As far as your background, you were convicted of 
third degree burglary in 1957 ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have been arrested for peace disturbance, carry- 
ing concealed weapons, and common assault, and you are presently 
under indictment for murder? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14403 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you have been under indictment for murder 
since July 1955 ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And isn't it correct that even after you were under 
indictment for murder, that you were hired in 1956 by the Teamsters 
Union to patrol the streets and act against these wildcat strikers? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And weren't the arrangements made by Mr. Harold 
Gibbons with Mr. Joe Costello of the Ace Cab Co. — didn't he make 
the arrangements and pay you — then wasn't the Ace Cab Co. reim- 
bursed for the money that they paid to you ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could I call on our assistant, Mr. Eickmeyer, to 
testify as to what the records show, as to how much Mr. Shoulders 
received ? 

The Chairman. All right. You have examined the records of the 
union ; have you ? 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

Mr. Eickmeyer. The union and the Ace Cab Co. 

The Chairman. You may proceed to testify. 

Mr. Kennedy. I just wanted insofar as Mr. Shoulders. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. On August 23, 1956, Mr. Lou Shoulders, Jr., 
received $138 from the Ace Cab Co., which was charged to miscella- 
neous wages. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then was the Ace Cab Co. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. The Ace Cab Co. was subsequently reimbursed for 
the payment by local 405. 

Mr. Kennedy. The union reimbursed the Ace Cab Co. for this pay- 
ment to Mr. Shoulders ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And this was during the wildcat strike of 1956 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE ANDREW HARVILL, JR., LOUIS SHOUL- 
DERS, JR., AND WILBOURNE HARVILL, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us about that, Mr. Shoulders ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was also after your father, who was a lieutenant 
in the police department, had gotten into difficulties regarding the 
Greenlease money, that you were hired by the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 



14404 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. You were hired by Mr. Costello and paid by the 
Teamsters Union. Is it correct that this happened in 1956, after your 
father had been identified with the Greenlease money ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that some of your associates are Joe 
Costello, William Sanders — this is from the police department rec- 
ords — Barney Baker. You have been arrested in the company of 
Barney Baker, were you not ? 

Mr. Shoulders. I respectfully decline to answer that question on 
the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. George Harvill, you have been a lifelong asso- 
ciates of Shoulders, Junior? 

Mr. George Harvill. I decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are also presently under indictment for murder ; 
is that correct, with Mr. Shoulders ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were acquitted for murder in 1952 and now you 
are under indictment for a second murder ; is that right ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that you were also one of those that 
was hired by Joe Costello, of the Ace Cab Co., in 1956 ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that on the 
grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the money that you received from the Ace Cab 
Co., the Teamsters Union reimbursed Mr. Joe Costello for that money ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Eichmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did he receive ? 

Mr. Eichmeyer. Mr. George Harvill received $138 on August 23, 
1956. This money was subsequently reimbursed to the Ace Cab Co. 
by the union local 405. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you own the C. & J. Tavern ? Is that right? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was where Bobby Carr, a driver of a taxicab, 
was killed ; is that correct ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it a dispute over prostitution that brought 
about the murder ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell the committee why you were paid 
this money during 1956 out of Teamster funds, with your background 
and record ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. What services did you perform for this money ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14405 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Who told you what you were to do in return for 
this money that you received from the Teamsters ? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are also known as "Stormy" ; is that right, Mr. 
Harvill? 

Mr. George Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that question 
on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your name is Wilbourne "Babe" Harvill ? You are 
known as "Babe" ; is that right ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have a brother by the name of "Stormy" ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully take the fifth amendment 
to answer that question. It may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr Kennedy. Do you know this gentleman over here next to Mr. 
Shoulders ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question. It might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is your brother, is he not ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question. It might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have been arrested seven times ; is that right ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question. It might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And this arrest record includes arrests for larceny 
of an auto, fugitive, larceny, murder, carrying concealed weapons ; is 
that right? 

Mr. Wilbourne. Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you are a close associate of Joe Costello and 
Lou Shoulders, Jr. ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are another one that the Teamsters Union hired 
in 1956, through Joe Costello of the Ace Cab Co., is that right? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were another one that was hired to patrol the 
streets in 1956 ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. It must have given the people of St. Louis a great 
sense of confidence to know that you three gentlemen were out 
patrolling the streets. Is that correct? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer that 
question on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that you find that he also received money 
from the Ace Cab Co., and which was reimbursed by the Teamsters 
Union? 



14406 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LAEOR FIELD 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. He also received $138 on August 23, 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they were reimbursed ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Ace Cab Co. was reimbursed by local 405. 

Senator Curtis. What services were you to perform for that money ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer on the 
grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. Who informed you what you were to do? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. I respectfully decline to answer the ques- 
tion on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Curtis. I think this : I think if the State of Missouri had 
a law providing for voluntary unionism, and someone did not have 
to belong to a union to make a living, that those union members would 
not pay their dues to support such activities as you individuals refuse 
to testify about. I think it is time that our national labor leaders 
admitted that fact. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Let me ask you two who are named Harvill. Are 
you brothers ? 

I ask you on my left first. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. George Harvill. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You are brothers ? 

Mr. George Harvill. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you a brother to the man who has just ad- 
mitted you are a brother to him ? 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. Yes, sir ; I am. 

The Chairman. Fine. I just wondered if you wanted to leave the 
record ashamed of each other. 

All right. 

Each of you will remain under your present subpena, subject to being 
recalled at such time as the committee may desire to interrogate you 
further. Do you accept such recognizance ? 

Mr. Shoulders. Yes, sir. 

Mr. George Harvill. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And you do agree to appear upon reasonable notice 
of the time and place ? 

Mr. Shoulders. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wilbourne Harvill. Yes, sir. 

Mr. George Harvill. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You may stand aside. 

At this time, the Chair will place in the record, as an exhibit for 
reference, pictures that were made this morning of Mr. Lew Farrell 
on the witness stand, together with his attorney, at the time his attor- 
ney held up and exhibited to the committee the files and records of 
Mr. Farrell which the committee had subpenaed. 

The Chair and the other member of the committee verify these 
pictures as true and correct pictures of the scene we witnessed here 
this morning. They will be made exhibit No. 85. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 85" for 
reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Philip Reichardt. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14407 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PHILIP REICHARDT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BERNARD J. MELLMAN 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation ? 

Mr. Reichardt. My name is Philip Reichardt. I live at 327 Goetz 
Avenue, Lemay, Mo. I decline to answer the third question and assert 
my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you have an attorney ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I do. 

The Chairman. Then let the record show the same counsel appears 
for this witness as appeared for the three preceding witnesses. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Philip Reichardt is the acting secretary- 
treasurer of local 405. Is that correct, Mr. Reichardt ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privileges under 
the fifth amendment not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is the highest official in local 405, except for the 
trustee, and was appointed to that position by Mr. Harold Gibbons. 

Is that right? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decine to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. At the time of your appointment in April 1956, 
you had had no previous experience as a cabdriver. Isn't that right ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privileges under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Therefore, Mr. Gibbons appointed you in violation 
of article 6, section 5(d), which says : 

Temporary officers and trustees must be members in good standing of local 
unions in good standing. 

The Chairman. Were you a member of the union at the time you 
were appointed ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. What is wrong with this union ? Is it so dirty none 
of your officials can talk about it ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were formerly on the staff of Mr. Gibbons in 
local 688 ; were you not ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decine to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 



14408 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the information, the testimony, that 
we have had, yon and Mr. Bommarito, business agent, run the local 
as a dictatorship and grant no voice to the membership in the opera- 
tion of the local. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Reiciiardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you refuse to allow members of the executive 
board to examine the books and records ? 

Mr. Reiciiardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you refuse to give them an accounting for their 
money ? 

Mr. Reiciiardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell the committee what happened to the 
so-called fine fund, which according to a previous witness is now 
missing ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the information we have, that money 
is missing. According to the information we have, local 405 has not 
had any by-laws since they were suspended by Mr. Harold Gibbons in 
1953. 

Is that correct ? 

Mr. Reiciiardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have also suspended general meetings of the 
union and hold only divisional meetings. Is that also correct? 

Mr. Reiciiardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You bring up matters at one divisional meeting and 
fail to bring them up at others ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Therefore, having complete control over anything 
in the union of which you do not approve, is that right ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the information, the testimony that has 
been given to the committee, the drivers of the Ace Cab Co., of Joe 
Costello, on many occasions, have been delinquent in the payment of 
their dues and there has been nothing done about it. Is that right ? 

Mr. Reiciiardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14409 

Mr. Kennedy. We understand that you announced a short time 
ago that there would be an election held in local 405, but that only 7 
people out of a membership of over 1,000 would be eligible for office. 
Is that right? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a wit- 
ness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you based that on the constitution of the Team- 
sters that says you have to have your dues paid up the first of the month 
or otherwise you are not eligible to hold office; is that correct? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Because of the checkoff system only you and the other 
officers have your dues paid up the first of the month and therefore you 
are the only ones who are eligible to hold positions of authority; is 
that right? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that 1 of the 7 that is eligible to run, 
according to your theory, is Mr. Barney Baker ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, at the meeting of the international convention 
that was held in Miami in 1957, how were the delegates from your local 
selected ? 

Mr. Reichart. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under the 
fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a witness 
against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you announced to the local at a 
meeting on September 11, 1957, that you would represent the local at 
the international convention in Miami ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The membership was given no choice ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that you offered Mr. Alfred Giardano 
$40 to bet up William Boyd of the local, who had been giving you 
trouble ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you spoken to Mr. Giardano the last week? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us about the payments to Shoulders, 
Lou Shoulders, and to these other individuals who have testified before 

21243— 59— pt. 38 18 



14410 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

the committee, with long police and criminal records — why those pay- 
ments of Teamster funds were made to these individuals ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The fact is you were appointed to your position by 
Mr. Harold Gibbons and you operate the union in accordance with the 
instructions of Mr. Harold Gibbons. 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Here is a letter, Mr. Chairman, which gives a little 
bit of the attitude of the leadership of the local toward the member- 
ship. 

The Chairman. Mr. Reichardt, I present to you a letter dated July 
27, 1956, addressed to Mr. Howard Hartman, apparently bearing your 
signature, or written at your discretion. 

Will you examine the letter and state if you identify it. 

Mr. Reichardt. What was your question, Senator f 

The Chairman. Do you identify the letter ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I have looked at the letter. 

The Chairman. Do you identify it ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Let us read it and find out if there is some reason 
why it might incriminate him. 

The letter may be printed at this point in the record. It reads as 
follows : 

Taxi Cab Drivers Local No. 405, 

St. Louis, Mo., July 27, 1956. 
Mr. Howard Hartman, 

3669 Robert Avenue, St. Louis, Mo. 

Dear Brother Hartman : This is to advise you that effective as of July 
31, 1956, I am removing Brother Charles Gerber as a trustee and executive board 
member of our union. 

For this action, I am responsible only to Brother Harold J. Gibbons, to whom a 
full explanation and my reasons have been given. 

Any executive board member who wishes to discuss this matter with me, may 
feel free to do so at any time. 

With kindest personal regards, I am 
Fraternally yours, 

Philip C. Reicharut, 
Acting Secretary-Treasurer. 

The Chairman. Did you write that letter ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Is it true that you are responsible only to Gibbons 
and not to the membership of the union in any way ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Is that what the Teamsters call democracy in 
unionism ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14411 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us anything about who is responsible 
for the violence in 1956 ? 

Mr. Reichardt. Are you putting that in the form of a question ? 

I decline to answer and assert my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment of the United States Constitution not to be a witness against 
myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. I know you did not come in until 1956, but do you 
know who was responsible for the violence, or you did not come into 
local 405 until 1956, but do you know who was responsible for the vio- 
lence while you were with local 688 ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I decline to answer and assert my privilege under 
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution not to be a 
witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are there any questions, Senator Curtis ? 

You will remain under the same subpena, subject to being recalled 
at such time as the committee may desire to hear your further testi- 
mony. 

Do you accept such recognizance ? 

Mr. Reichardt. I do. 

The Chairman. All right. You will be given reasonable notice of 
the time and place. 

The committee will stand in recess until 10 : 30 in the morning. 

(Whereupon, at 4:35 p. m., the committee recessed, to reconvene 
the following day, at 10 : 30 a. m.) 

(Members of the select committee present at the taking of the recess 
were Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



THURSDAY, AUGUST 28, 1958 

United States Senate, 
Select Committee on Improper Activities 

in the Labor or Management Field, 

Washington, D. C. 

The select committee met at 10 : 30 a. m., pursuant to Senate Resolu- 
tion 221, agreed to January 29, 1958, in the caucus room, Senate Office 
Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com- 
mittee) presiding. 

Present : Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas ; Senator 
Carl T. Curtis, Republican, Nebraska. 

Also present : Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Alder- 
man, assistant chief counsel; Paul Tierney, assistant counsel; John 
J. McGovern, assistant counsel; Carmine S. Bellino, accountant; 
Pierre E. Salinger, investigator; Leo C. Nulty, investigator; James 
P. Kelly, investigator ; Walter J. Sheridan, investigator ; James Mun- 
die, investigator, Treasury Department ; John Flanagan, investigator, 
GAO ; Alfred Vitarelli, investigator, GAO ; Ruth Young Watt, chief 
clerk. 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

(Members of the committee present at the convening of the session 
were : Senators McClellan and Curtis. ) 

The Chairman. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we are tending, as you know, to go 
into the joint council election in St. Louis, joint council 13, which took 
place in January of 1958. In that election of the votes that were 
counted originally, Mr. Gibbons lost the election 70 to 69. However, 
7 more votes were counted from a carnival local, local 447, and those 
votes all went to Mr. Gibbons, and Mr. Gibbons then was proclaimed 
president of the joint council by a vote of 76 to 70. There has been 
a dispute about these seven votes of the carnival local, and we are 
going into that matter. 

The man who ran the carnival local was under the trusteeship 
of Mr. Hoffa, and Mr. Hoffa turned it over to Mr. Harold Gibbons, 
and Mr. Harold Gibbons had a man by the name of Harry Karsh 
operate and run this local for him. That is local 447. 

We are going into this election, as I say, but to understand the 
election and the votes it is necessary to understand and look into the 
operation of Mr. Harry Karsh and the carnival local itself. At least 
the first part of this hearing will be devoted to the activities and the 
operations of Mr. Harry Karsh, and his relationship with certain of 
the carnivals throughout the United States. 

14413 



14414 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The first witness, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. Robert L. Hines. 

The Chairman. Mr. Hines, will you come around, please. 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence, given before this Senate 
select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hines. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT I. HINES 

The Chairman. Will you state your name, your place of residence, 
and your business or occupation ? 

Mr. Hines. My name is Robert L. Hines and my residence is 206 
North Seminole Circle, Fort Wayne, Ind. I am a lawyer. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. You may proceed, Mr. 
Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might just give a little of the back- 
ground of Harry Karsh and bring it up to the time that Mr. Hines 
will testify about it. He was an organizer for the AFL and appar- 
ently because of his activities he was laid off back as far as 1942 by 
William Green, president of the AFL, because of questionable 
activities. 

From 1946 to 1950 he was an organizer for local 688 in St. Louis. 
He was one of those who was bought out for some $18,000 and retired 
from local 688 when Mr. Harold Gibbons took over in 1949. 

In 1950 to 1952 he worked as a labor consultant. During this 
period of time he was employed at least part of the time by Mr. 
Nathan Shefferman. Then in February of 1952, he became an organ- 
izer, and he was issued a charter by Local 450 of the Jewelry Workers 
Union. The purpose of that charter was to organize the carnival 
employees throughout the United States. 

We will trace what happened to that charter with Mr. Hines, and 
with the next witness. Then I will fill in the intervening time. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Hines, you are an attorney at law at Fort 
Wayne, is that right ? 

Mr. Hines. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1952, in July of 1952, were you approached by an 
owner of a carnival to deal with Mr. Harry Karsh and his labor union ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what happened ? 

Mr. Hines. I was called on the telephone on a Sunday, July 6, 1952, 
by the owners of the Cetlin & Wilson carnival show. 

Mr. Kennedy. C-e-t-1-i-n & Wilson shows % 

Mr. Hines. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were approached on Sunday, July 6, 1952 ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes, sir. 

They called me to come to the New York Central freight unload- 
ing yards in the city of Fort Wayne, because they were having some 
difficulty in unloading their carnival from the railroad cars. 

Mr. Kennedy. This area they were in was about 4 miles away from 
the actual fairgrounds, is that correct ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes ; they were playing at the county fair for a week's 
engagement and they had to unload at the unloading yards which 
is about 4 miles from the fairground. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14415 

They then had to transport their wagons from the freight unload- 
ing yards, this 4 miles over the public roads and highways to the 
fairground. 

Mr. Kennedy. Will you proceed ? 

Mr. Hines. When 1 arrived, it was about 7 : 30 in the evening on 
Sunday evening, and at that time all of the Cetlin & Wilson carnival 
railroad cars were lined up in the area to be unloaded. In this area 
they had to unload the cars from the end of the car, where the coupling 
is, and not off the side of the cars, and they are unloaded onto the end, 
onto a city street, and then haul the wagons away. 

Along the street where the end of the cars came up to the street, 
with 4 or 5 men who w T ere walking in a picket line, were pickets that 
were printed on cardboard signs and tacked onto an instrument they 
were carrying. 

Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean, an instrument % 

Mr. Hines. Well, the instrument they were carrying was larger 
than a stick, and it was similar to a baseball bat with the cardboard 
signs tacked on both sides, so they read from either direction. These 
signs read, "Unfair to Carnival Workers Union, Local No. 450." 

After I arrived, I talked to the owner of the show, and the manager 
of the show, and they informed me that a Mr. Harry Karsh was there 
with these gentlemen who w T ere walking the picket line, and Mr. Karsh 
would not allow the unloading of the railroad cars. It was necessary 
in order to unload the railroad cars that the teamsters unload the 
wagons with their trucks, and haul the wagons with their trucks to 
the fairground. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you talk to Mr. Harry Karsh then ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes, I introduced myself to Mr. Harry Karsh there 
on the railroad grounds, and asked him if he could tell us w T hy he 
was there, and what he was doing. He said he was there for only 
one purpose, and that was to get the owners of the carnival to sign 
a contract with him whereby he would be the bargaining agent and 
representative of all of the carnival workers for his union. 

I asked him whether or not he would be willing to sit down and 
discuss the matter with the owners in the building adjacent to the 
yards, and he said no, that we would be wasting any time talking, that 
there was only one purpose of his being there, and that was to get 
the contract signed. I asked him what the purpose of the contract was, 
and he said it was a union shop contract whereby the carnival workers 
would all be required to join his union within 30 days after the signing 
of it. 

I asked him whether or not he represented any of the carnival 
workers in this show, and he said, "No." I asked him whether he had 
ever gone to these workers to see whether or not they wanted him to 
represent them, and he said, "No." I asked him why then did he want 
to talk to the owners, when he didn't represent any of the carnival 
workers. He informed me that it was too much trouble to try to run 
down these workers and get them as members of his union, and it was 
much simpler to start at the top, which was the owner of the carnival, 
and get him to sign a union-shop contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say anything about the fact that he had been 
interested in this show for a long period of time ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes; and he said he had been interested in the show at 
least since the previous winter quarters that the show had been in. 



14416 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

and he had requested the owner of this show and the other railroad 
shows to meet with him in Atlanta, Ga., during the wintertime, and 
it would have been the winter of 1951-52, and the owner of this show 
had refused or failed to show up at this meeting that Mr. Karsh had 
called. After this show had failed to appear at the meeting, he had 
checked the itinerary of the show and learned that Fort Wayne, Ind., 
was one of the few places where the show had to unload somewhere 
other than on the fairgrounds, and would require the use of Teamster 
Union employees to haul the wagons to the fairgrounds, and therefore 
he had waited until the time they appeared in Fort Wayne to appear 
with his pickets to hold up the unloading of the show. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say something about that he had got the show 
now where he wanted to get them ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes ; and when I asked him whether or not he wouldn't 
sit down and discuss the matter with the employees, and the owner, 
he said that he couldn't waste time doing that because he had the 
owner exactly where he wanted him, and he wasn't going to let go of 
that advantage, and that was the advantage of having him still in 
his railroad cars and he couldn't unload for the Monday performance. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he have a contract with him, a recognition 
contract ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes, sir ; and he had a form contract that appeared to 
be a mimeographed contract in his briefcase and he opened the brief- 
case and handed that contract to the owner of the show, and said, 
"Here is what I want you to sign." 

Mr. Kennedy. What did the contract provide as far as the em- 
ployees were concerned? 

Mr. Hines. The contract provided that the employer, the owner 
of the show, would recognize Mr. Karsh 's union as the sole and exclu- 
sive collective bargaining agent for all of the employees of the em- 
ployer, and that the employer would agree to make a monthly deduc- 
tion from the pay of these employees covered by the agreement as a 
checkoff for union dues to Mr. Karsh's union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there anything in there about that they had 
to join the union? 

Mr. Hines. Yes; there was a provision that all of the employees 
of the carnival workers or the carnival of Cetlin & Wilson would have 
to join the union within 30 days of the signing of the contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. Or what would happen ? 

Mr. Hines. They would be fired. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you say to him or what was vour reaction 
to this? 

Mr. Hines. I told Mr. Karsh that his suggestion, since he did not 
represent any of the employees, was a violation of the Taft-Hartley 
Act, and was certainly not proper in any manner. His reply to that 
was that he didn't give a damn for the Taft-Hartley Act, and that he 
had the employer where he wanted him and he wasn't going to let 
him go. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis.) 

Senator Curtis. How long did he tie up things ? 

Mr. Hines. I don't know what time they arrived that afternoon, 
but I arrived at 7 : 30 in the evening and they had been there for sev- 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14417 

eral hours at that time. It was midnight before they finally began 
unloading the wagons. 

Senator Curtis. That was after they surrendered to Karsh ? 

Mr. Hines. That is right. That is after they signed the contract. 

Senator Curtis. Who was going to do the unloading? Was it the 
regular employees ? 

Mr. Hines. The regular employees would bring the circus wagons 
along from railroad car to railroad car until they got to the end of 
the line where the street was. At this point, tractors which can be 
attached to semitrucks would attach to the wagons and take them to 
the fairgrounds. 

Senator Curtis. Who did they belong to ? 

Mr. Hines. The tractors belonged to a trucking firm in Fort Wayne, 
which employed Teamster drivers. 

Senator Curtis. How did they keep these workers from unloading ? 

Mr. Hines. The gentlemen who were with Mr. Karsh walked along 
the fronts of the railroad cars with these signs and the Teamsters 
would not cross the picket line set up by these 4 or 5 men. 

Senator Curtis. How about the carnival workers ? 

Mr. Hines. The carnival workers would and could cross the line 
and said they would, but they had no facilities for hauling the wagons 
to the fair grounds. In other words, the wagons had no power. 

Senator Curtis. The Teamsters, in other words, assisted the pickets 
and boycotted the unloading, did they ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. In fact, Mr. Karsh said that prior to his arriv- 
ing at Fort Wayne, that he had gone to Indianapolis to talk to the 
Teamster officials there, and that he had talked to the official in Fort 
Wayne, and they were in sympathy with what he was doing, and none 
of their members would cross the picket line. 

Senator Curtis. Yet no one in the carnival belonged to his union, 
he did not represent anyone ? 

Mr. Hines. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. In other words, an outside force that represented 
not even one employee ties up a situation like that. Was any effort 
made to get police help ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. Both the city police and the sheriff's department 
were there, but neither would do anything other than patrol the street 
and make sure that there was no blocking of the street that the un- 
loading was to be on, and they would not permit us to unload the 
circus wagons on the street without immediately removing them by 
the trucks. 

Senator Curtis. What was requested of them, that they do, or what 
could they have done on the premise that they failed to do this? 

Mr. Hines. Do you mean the police department ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Hines. I doubt if there was anything more the police depart- 
ment could have done, because the Teamsters would not take the wagons 
after they came off the railroad cars, even if they had been permitted 
to remove them from the railroad cars across the picket line. 

The Teamsters would not, in other words, move the wagons at all 
from that scene until they got an O. K., apparently, from Mr. Karsh. 

Senator Curtis. A competitor show could not tie up this Setlin and 
Wilson show in this manner at all, could they ? 

Mr. Hines. No, sir. 



14418 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. And neither could anyone else. It seems to me an 
outrageous violation of the principle of equality before the law that 
something like this could happen. 

Mr. Hines. We had a discussion with Mr. Karsh that evening, and 
Mr. Moore, who was one of the employees of the show, the manager 
of the show, mentioned to Mr. Karsh that his activities that evening 
and the manner in which he was going about this was obviously an 
extortion from both the owners of the show and from the employees 
of their money. He said "You may call it whatever you wish. I 
am going to hold you here until you sign my contract." 

Senator Curtis. And they had to ? 

Mr. Hines. And they did sign the contract, at midnight, in order 
to unload the show to begin the next day. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Wilson have any other way of getting the 
animals and the equipment in ? 

Mr. Hines. Wilson had 1 or 2 power units but not sufficient to have 
moved all the wagons that he had. He informed me he did not 
have authority, either, to haul the wagons across the State highway 
to the fairgrounds, nor the insurance on his vehicles to be hauling 
circus wagons. In other words, he was not equipped. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Karsh say anything about "if you try to haul 
your own equipment" ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes, there was a discussion about hauling our own 
equipment, even though it may take us all night and lose the first day 
of the show. Mr. Karsh informed us that if we tried to remove those 
wagons and haul them by any other means, that the wagons would 
not arrive safely at the fairground, that they would be wrecked. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the animals that were kept in the 
train ? 

Were they getting thirsty and hungry ? 

Mr. Hines. Well, after I had been there several hours we had a 
call from the local humane officer who had apparently been called 
to the scene, and he asked how long the animals had been on the 
train, and they had been on the train for a sufficient length of time 
that it was necessary to feed and water them. 

He informed the owners that they would be in violation of the 
local ordinance if he did not water and feed these animals within 
a certain length of time, which was then passed from the time they 
had arrived, and that they would be subject to a fine and arrest for 
that reason. 

When we asked Mr. Karsh for the authority to do it, he said "You 
can take the animal wagons off if you will put the carnival wagons 
right back on again." 

Of course, the animal wagons were spotted all through the train. 
It was impossible to do so without tying up the street. The police 
department would not let us park the wagons on the street. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you could not unload the animals ? 

Mr. Hines. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the humane society said you would be in viola- 
tion of the law if you did not unload the animals ? 

Mr. Hines. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you signed the contract ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14419 

Mr. Hines. That is right. I also might mention that we talked 
about the fact that since this was a breach of the labor laws, that we 
had a right to go to the Federal court for an injunction, but at that 
time the Federal court was not sitting in Fort Wayne. 

It was sitting in Hammond, Ind., about 150 or 200 miles away. It 
was impractical to do anything about it at this time. In other words, 
this was a Sunday evening and the show was to begin on Monday. 
They were to be there for 1 week and then they would be on to another 
place. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say he would do if you did get into the 
fairground ? 

Mr. Hines. He said that even if we got to the fairground without 
his first either stopping our vehicles or wrecking them, that he had the 
sympathy of all the employees of the Fort Wayne works of the Inter- 
national Harvester, and that all of those employees who were union 
members would be out picketing their carnival after it got on the fair- 
ground. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then did he say he would follow it ? 

Mr. Hines. And when it came to moving back onto the railroad 
cars the next Saturday night, he would be there to stop that, and he 
would follow them from there on until they signed his contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. So, approximately, midnight that night, you signed 
the contract ? 

Mr. Hines. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there a meeting with the employees? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. One of the things that the owner kept insisting on 
was that Mr. Karsh talk to the employees to see whether the employees 
even wanted him or not. He finally agreed just before the signing of 
the contract that he would attend a meeting, but he would not promise, 
depending on the outcome of the meeting, whether that would affect 
the contract or not. So a meeting was set up for Tuesday, on July 8, 
1952, at which Mr. Karsh did not appear, and the meeting was then 
set up on Thursday, July 10, and Mr. Karsh, and the men who were 
with him, did appear at that meeting. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have your secretary take stenographic notes 
on that meeting ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. I took my secretary to the meeting and she took 
notes of everything Mr. Karsh said. 

Mr. Kennedy. Prior to that 

The Chairman. I hand you here a photostatic copy of a document 
and ask you to examine it and state if you can identify it. 

(The document was handed to the witness. ) 

Mr. Hines. Yes, sir, I can identify this document. It is a photo- 
static copy of the meeting that was held on Thursday, July 10, 1952, 
at which Mr. Karsh appeared, and these are the notes that were 
taken by my secretary and then transcribed. The questions on this 
document are asked by carnival workers who were present, and the 
answers were given by Mr. Karsh in each instance. 

The Chairman. That document may be made exhibit No. 86. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 86" for refer- 
ence, and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. Would you read some of the most pertinent parts 
of the document so we can get the general idea of what really tran- 
spired ? 



14420 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Hines. Well, the opening statement by Mr. Karsh was 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have another copy of it ? 

Mr. Hines. I have a copy. 

The opening statement by Mr. Karsh was : 

Thank you, Pizon. You can all blow* your tops, that is what you are here for. 
Maybe I don't blame you ; maybe you should. Then again maybe you should 
not. As I look over you, I know there are a lot of questions that each one wants 
to ask, and to the best of my ability I will answer everyone of them. As you 
know, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Cetlin and Mr. Hines, the attorney, has told you 
the show has signed a contract with this union. This union takes the position 
that the contract will be fulfilled by this show. To start enumerating a lot 
of things that the union can do for you, you probably would not believe me, so 
I would like for you people, anyone of you, if there is any questions, no matter 
how embarrassing. 

One of the questions was : 

What's the history and background of the union? 

Mr. Karsh's answer was : 

The union was formed the 1st day of February. I formed it. 

Question. Who are you? 

Answer. I have been in the American Federation of Labor and Teamsters 
Union as a representative for 25 years. This job was wished on me by the 
American Federation of Labor. 

Question. Don't you have to go to the employees first? 

Answer. There are two ways of looking at that. It is the mode of this kind 
of business. It is impossible to talk to the workers first. Do you think that 
if there was not a contract signed that I could come in and say, "How about 
putting a call for 5 p. m. Thursday, I want to talk to them about the union?" 

They would tell me "No." 

Question. Why do we have to join? 

Answer. The contract was signed. 

Then a worker said "We were forced " 

Senator Ctjrtis. May I interrupt you at that point ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. At the present time in Indiana they could not have 
executed this contract, could they? 

Mr. Hines. No, sir. We have a right-to-work law in the State of 
Indiana, passed by the last legislature. 

The Chairman. Do you think incidents like this contributed to the 
awakening of the people to enact a right-to- work law? 

Mr. Hines. I think that is true, incidents and people such as these 
have contributed to the right-to- work law. 

Mr. Kennedy. Of course, what happened here was a violation of 
the law anyway, wasn't it? 

Mr. Hines. That is correct. 

Skipping some of these items, another question was: 

What does it do for the union? 

In other words, the man had intended, I suppose, what does the 
union do for them. 

The answer was: 

Every man gets a financial statement. 

The question was: 

What is your cut? 
Answer. I work for a salary. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14421 

Another worker said: 

We are not in Russia, we are still in the United States. You have a man over 
a barrel and you are going to take advantage of him. Why don't you ask us? 

The answer by Mr. Karsh: 
It is the nature of the business. 
A question by a worker was: 
Do we have 30 days to make up our minds? 
and Mr. Karsh said "No." 
The question was : 

Is it this minute? 

And the answer was : 

I would not say so. 

Question. Will it affect our moving out on Saturday? 

The answer was: 

Mr. Wilson has signed a contract and I have every faith in Mr. Wilson that 
he will live up to it. 

I want to tell you, Mr. Wilson, that you have a bunch of loyal people here. 
I am telling you the truth. 

Mr. Wilson is going along with the union. He was obligated himself. 

Then the question, again: 

Does not signing affect moving on Saturday? 

Answer. I am not going to answer that question. 

Question. Will the show move Saturday if we do not sign up? 

Answer. I will not answer that question. You are not union members and 
have no right to ask that question. When you join, you can ask the policy of 
the union. Until that time, the union will not give out its secrets. 

Question. You wouldn't answer that one question? 

Answer. No. If this question is not resolved, I am sure this show will have 
a lot of trouble. 

Then a question by an employee : 
"Where does the money go ?" 

Answer. You get a statement of expenses and money taken in once a month. 
The expenses of the people at the train Sunday night, they were carrying out 
the instructions of this union. 

Then as one of his closing statements, Mr. Karsh stated : 

I can stand up here for 15 hours, and believe me, this fall a representative will 
be called, and we will set up a policy committee and insurance program. We 
only originated February 1. We have 6,000 people in the union, and 80 percent 
of this industry will be organized by fall. You people will be represented on 
the policy committee. You can do anything you want to do. It will be demo- 
cratic. I do not blame you. After this union is organized, you will be aware 
that you have protection. I have never seen an industry as sick as this industry 
is. I think that this Carnival Workers Union can do a lot for the carnival in- 
dustry. I have seen carnivals playing 15 miles out in a wheatfield, because 
they cannot come into town. We are now going to open up a lot of towns. 

Senator Curtis. What did the workers say ? 

Mr. Hines. The workers say "Says you." 

Mr. Karsh 's reply was, "Says I, that's right." 

Then he ended his interview with the employees by saying : 

There is no initiation fee. Dues are $4 a month payable by the month. Also, 
when the show is not showing, no dues. I don't know why we are arguing. You 
only have 4 months for the rest of the season. 

I would like some of you girls to pass out the cards. 



14422 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. Some reference was made to the workers of the 
International Harvester Co. supporting this racket. Was that a bluff 
or did you find out that they really had not made any contact and got- 
ten any favorable response? 

Mr. Hines. As far as we could ascertain, it was a bluff, that there 
was no actual connection with the Harvester Workers' Union, which 
was a UAW affiliate. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. How many employees were involved in this 
carnival ? 

Mr. Hines. I do not have the actual number, but there were several 
hundred. 

The Chairman. Several hundred ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. 

The Chairman. Did it also include the concessionaires — those who 
owned their own concession and operated them ? 

Mr. Hines. There was an exclusion for those workers who belonged 
to a union referred to as the AGVA, and to concessionaires, and a 
painter, a trainmaster, a sound-system man, and a lot man. The rest 
of them were musicians and entertainers who belonged to the AGVA. 
Those, were the only exclusions. 

The Chairman. They were excluded ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. 

The Chairman. That is, if they belonged to another union? 

Mr. Hines. That is right. 

The Chairman. But otherwise, those that did not belong to another 
union all came within this hijacking operation ? 

Mr. Hines. That is true. Of course, before Mr. Karsh left that 
day. he picked up some money from the owner of the show for the 
advance checkoff for the first month dues for all the carnival workers. 

The Chairman. How much did he pick up ? Do you recall ? 

Mr. Hines. I do not know. I was not present. 

The Chairman. In other words, he made the owner pay in advance \ 

Mr. Hines. That is correct, 

The Chairman. Were any of the pickets on the picket line there 
local people? 

Mr. Hines. No, sir. They were brought in from St. Louis, accord- 
ing to Mr. Karsh, or Indianapolis, one of the two cities. 

The Chairman. They were imported people ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What provisions are there in that contract for the 
benefit of the workers, if any ? 

Mr. Hines. Well, the contract appears to be a standard-form con- 
tract, It was apparently taken from some other industry. It does 
have clauses on union security, seniority, discharge, illness and acci- 
dent, and union stewards and machinery for adjustment of grievances, 
strikes, and lockouts. It is one of the standard-form contracts, except 
for the fact that they have taken out the name of another union and 
put in their own name. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14423 

The Chairman. The truth is these people were forced into a union 
against their will, without their consent, and the workers knew noth- 
ing about it or were not contacted until after a contract had been 
signed ? 

Mr. Hines. That is true. 

The Chairman. And that contract was signed under extreme coer- 
cion and duress, where the owner had no alternative except to undergo 
tremendous damage and loss to his business. 

Mr. Hines. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any discussion of wages ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. The only discussion of wages was that the con- 
tract made a provision — since it was a form contract it made a provi- 
sion — for a certain increase of $5 per week for all the helpers, effec- 
tive as of May 1 of that year or the commencement of road operations. 

Since this was July 6, that provision was amended to the date of 
July 6. 

Mr. Kennedy. So did the employees get a wage increase ? 

Mr. Hines I do not know. I did not represent them after they left 
town. I don't know whether they got the increase or not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did any of the employees indicate that they would 
like to take care of Mr. Karsh ? 

Mr. Hines. Yes. At the meeting that Mr. Karsh attended on Thurs- 
day, where he talked to the employees, there were two roustabouts who 
came up to Mr. Wilson and wanted to know whether Mr. Wilson 
wanted them to take care of Mr. Karsh, and he said no, that he did not 
believe in violence, and that was not his way of doing business, and 
that they should go back and sit down. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever find out why the Jewelry Workers 
would be trying to organize the carnivals ? 

Mr. Hines. No. His contract read that the name of the union was 
the Carnival, Amusement, and Novelty Device Workers Local Union 
450, International Jewelry Workers Union, affiliated with the Ameri- 
can Federation of Labor. But I have no idea what their connection 
was for their charter. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman. We have an affidavit 
here. 

The Chairman. What would jewelers and a carnival show have 
in common ? 

Mr. Hines. I do not know. 

The Chairman. It seems to me there is a missing link there. 

Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

The Chair announces that we have an affidavit from Mr. John W. 
Wilson, owner of this show, supporting the testimony given here by 
Mr. Hines. This affidavit will be printed in the record at this point. 
I will not take time to read it. 



14424 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The document referred to follows :) 

Cetlin & Wilson Shows 

"Greatest Midway on Earth" 

Permanent Address : Post Office Box 787, Petersburg, Va. Week of March 15, 1958 
En Route Petersburg, Va. 

United States Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the 
Labor or Management Field. 

(Attention Mr. Robert F. Kennedy.) 

Dear Mr. Kennedy: Your recent letter at hand and contents noted. I will 
answer your questions by number as per your letter. 

Answer to No. 1 : The contract was signed on July 6, 1952 by and between the 
Cetlin & Wilson Shows and the Carnival, Amusement, and Novelty Device Work- 
ers Local Union, No. 450, IJWU, affiliated with the American Federation of Labor. 

No. 2 : Harry Karsh, president. 

No. 3: The first money that was paid by the employees was collected by Mr. 
Karsh himself. The first week in August, we withheld the dues from the workers 
and mailed Mr. Karsh a cashier's check with the duplicate receipts. We have no 
record of the check, but I believe it was on a bank in Ionia, Mich. When the 
charter was revoked by the American Federation of Labor in August of that year, 
we destroyed the receipt book. 

No. 4 : Mr. Karsh first contacted me in February of 1952 about signing a con- 
tract with his union. At that time the only employee on our payroll was our 
treasurer-secretary. He was in the office when Mr. Karsh visited. Mr. Karsh was 
told to wait and when the show opened contact the employees about the union. 
We were in favor of a good union. He refused that request and made threats as 
to what he would do if we did not sign. I refused. We did not hear any more 
from him until July 6. We arrived by train (this is a railroad show) to show at 
the Fort Wayne, Ind., Fair. This was a Sunday night and we must unload the 
train and equipment so that we can set up for the opening of the fair on Monday 
afternoon. When we tried to unload the train, men with placards appeared 
in a picket line in front of the train. We hire in each town or city, trucks to 
move our wagons from the train to the fairgrounds. The truckdrivers refused 
to cross the picket line. We immediately retained an attorney, Robert L. Hines 
of Fort Wayne, Ind., to represent us. Mr. Karsh wanted us to sign the contract 
or the equipment would not leave the train and there would be no fair or midway 
at the fair. The fair officials become panicky and wanted me to do something so 
that the fair could be held. 

The police department wanted no violence and the SPCA demanded that the 
animals be removed so they could be fed and watered. At midnight we were, on 
advice of our attorney, ready to sign the contract. A day later Mr. Karsh 
notified me that he would address the employees and sign them up. I arranged 
for the meeting, but he did not show up. He phoned me and told me to go ahead 
with the meeting without him, so that I could apprise the employees of what to 
expect, and then set a meeting for the following day. That was done. I spoke 
to employees (public stenographer on hand to take notes) apprised them as to 
what had taken place and asked them to come to the meeting the next day to 
hear Mr. Karsh. He appeared the next day and the employees almost rioted, 
trying to get at him. (We had the meeting wired by a wire recorder, also notes 
taken by the stenographer at the request of the attorney.) 

No. 5: There was no election and all employees refused to accept a steward- 
ship, therefore it was left that way. 

The union charter was revoked in August of that year at the convention in 
Atlantic City. Mr. Karsh later tried to organize us again under the Teamster 
Union, we had in the meantime joined the RCIA. He came to Port Huron, Mich., 
and picketed us. We telephoned Mr. Charles Torche of the RCIA and he came 
on an after 1 day of picketing, had Mr. Karsh withdraw his pickets. 

(Signed) Cetlin & Wilson Shows, 
By John W. Wilson. 
State of Virginia, 

City of Petersburg: 

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th day of March 1958. 

Ruth M. Rogers, Notary Public. 

My commission expires October 1, 1961. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14425 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. F. E. Gooding. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Gooding. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FLOYD E. GOODING 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Gooding. Floyd E. Gooding, 1970 Elmwood Avenue, Columbus, 
Ohio. I am the president of Gooding Amusement Co., which oper- 
ates carnival amusements, and also president of the Zoo Amusement 
Park, in Columbus, Ohio. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. Do you waive counsel ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where do your carnivals operate ? 

Mr. Gooding. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Where do your carnivals operate ? 

Mr. Gooding. Over an area of some 10 States, principally in the 
Middle West, and some Southern States. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many employees do you have ? 

Mr. Gooding. Between two and three hundred regular employees. 

Mr. Kennedy. And that is during your season ; is that right ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you have concessionaires ? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. About 100 of those ? 

Mr. Gooding. A good big hundred, perhaps more. It varies from 
time to time. 

Mr. Kennedy. They are independent contractors ? 

Mr. Gooding. They are independent operators and contractors. 

Mr. Kennedy. In July 1952 were you approached by Harry Karsh? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was he at that time ? 

Mr. Gooding. Well, he was representing himself to be organizing 
carnivals under an A. F. of L. charter of, I believe, the Jewelry Work- 
ers Union in St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he ask you to sign a contract in July? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes. He asked us; he insisted that we sign a con- 
tract. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was your reaction to that ? 

Mr. Gooding. Well, I knew very little about labor relations, that 
is, so far as unions are concerned, but just as a matter of common sense 
I felt that the people in our organization should have the last word 
when it come to whether they desired a union or did not desire a union. 
I put forth that debate or argument with Mr. Karsh. But he seemed 
to insist that it was much easier, less expensive, more harmony would 
prevail, if it could be arranged through the management. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he had worked on other cases where it 
had been arranged through the management? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes; and he brought out the fact that he had or- 
ganized the Royal American Shows under those conditions. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 19 



14426 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he mention anything about Sears, Roebuck? 
Mr. Gooding. He claimed that he had been an organizer with Sears, 
Roebuck under the AFL, and that was the organization of that com- 
pany, was formulated through the management. He did not say it 
was formulated without a vote, but he said it was arranged through 
the management of Sears. 

Mr. Kennedy. At that time, you were scheduled to open in Monroe, 
Mich. ; is that right ? 

Mr. Gooding. In the very near future we were scheduled to operate 
at the Monroe, Mich., fair. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say he would do then ? 

Mr. Gooding. Well, he threatened to picket us there if we didn't 
agree to a union shop or a union contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he had been able to stop the show in Fort 
Wayne ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes ; and he mentioned that fact. Cetlin and Wilson 
was retarded from unloading their train for several hours. 

The Chairman. We will suspend for a moment. 

( A short recess was taken.) 

The Chairman. We will proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had this fair at Monroe, Mich. ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Supposed to open in early August ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he explain to you what happened at Fort 
Wayne with the Cetlin & Wilson Show ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he tell you about that ? 

Mr. Gooding. He said they were retarded from unloading the train 
until a contract was signed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he had any assistance in stopping them ? 

Mr. Gooding. He said they were picketed. 

Mr. Kennedy. By whom ? 

Mr. Gooding. I believe the AFL, but I am not sure of that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he mention the Teamsters at that time ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes ; I meant to answer that by saying the Teamsters, 
which were with the AFL. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were also supposed to open in Warren, Ohio; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. In August ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he would picket that, too ? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he make any statement that he was going to 
make arrangements with officials in various cities to stop you from 
operating ? 

Mr. Gooding. He made a statement to the effect that he intended 
to clean up the industry and felt that it needed considerable attention 
along those lines. He expected to open up many cities which were 
closed to carnivals and that he hoped to have regulations whereby 
carnivals could not operate in cities unless they belonged to his union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say anything about dealing directly with 
the employees, and did you emphasize that you wanted him to speak 
to the employees ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14427 

Mr. Gooding. I brought that out quite emphatically. 

Mt.Kennedy. What did he say ? 

Mr. Gooding. I never could get any encouragement from him for 
several reasons, some of which I have just recited, but because of the 
fact that our operations are spread out over quite a vast area, and he 
felt it would be pretty inconvenient as a problem to get the employees 
together to have a vote, and to see whether they wanted to belong to 
the union. 

That was some of the reasons that he gave as to why it could be done 
with the management with much less inconvenience. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about signing a contract? Did you say you 
would sign a contract ? 

Mr. Gooding. Finally I agreed to certain agreements, and I don't 
know whether they were in harmony with the contract or not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell him you wanted your lawyer to review 
the contract ? 

Mr. Gooding. We reached an agreement and then Mr. Karsh pre- 
sented the contract, and I told him that it would not seem wise for 
me to sign it without having our lawyers examine it, and that I didn't 
sign any important papers, only routine contracts, without the au- 
thority of our lawyers. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was his reaction to that? 

Mr. Gooding. Well, the reaction to that was that he didn't think it 
was necessary. In fact he asked who our law firm was, and I men- 
tioned we had 2 or 3 different ones, and sometimes Senator Bricker's 
law office represented us, and sometimes Mr. Powell. Then he 
objected to going before our lawyers or having our lawyers come in. 
I refused to sign the contract. 

Then he said, "Well, we could have a verbal agreement." I con- 
sented to that, and in fact I was glad to have a verbal agreement in 
preference to a written agreement because it seemed rather unortho- 
dox, the methods that were being used seemed rather unorthodox. So 
then the contract was shortened from a year's period to a 3 months' 
period, and I agreed to some 160 or 170 employees at an initiation fee 
of $4 each. 

My reasons for agreeing to this 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that initiation fees or dues? 

Mr. Gooding. That was dues, there was no initiation fee, and that 
was a month's dues. 

Mr. Kennedy. He waived the initiation fee ? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, no initiation fee. 

Now my reasons for doing that was that pressure had been put on 
me from the Monroe, Mich., Board, who had called and said a repre- 
sentative of the Teamsters Union had been there to see them, and that 
we were to be picketed, and that was an industrial area, and they 
could not afford to have pickets in front of the fairgrounds. I con- 
tested Mr. Karsh's right to picket us when we had not refused to deal 
collectively, and I said, "What reason, or what are you going to accuse 
us of?" and he said, "We are going to accuse you of not belonging to a 
union." 

That is about the only accusation that he had because I had not 
refused to deal with our people collectively. So I agreed to these dues, 
and I think the check amounted to between $600 and $700. I thought 
it over seriously because I wondered if it was shady, and then I said 



14428 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

to myself, "I haven't taken any money from our people, I am at least 
not dealing under the table, and if I have given away any money, it 
is our own money." 

So in order not to embarrass our customers, or our fair boards, I 
agreed to this plan. As I thought about it, I wondered if the AFL 
did business that way, and I had at least reasonable respect for the 
American Federation of Labor, and I contacted Mr. O'Reilly who 
was the divisional organizer and told him exactly what had happened. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just before that, was it arranged that your em- 
ployees would have to join the union then within 30 days or be fired? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes, they had to join the union after working for us 
30 days. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Karsh insisted on that? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right ; that was a part of the agreement. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you paid the dues ? 

Mr. Gooding. I paid the dues. 

Mr. Kennedy. None of the employees were consulted about it ? 

Mr. Gooding. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You just paid for about 150 or 180 people for a 
month's dues all in advance? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you were telling us about contacting O'Reilly. 

Mr. Gooding. I contacted O'Reilly, and in 10 days or less I got an 
answer back that they knew nothing about it. In another week or 10 
days, the show trade paper which is the largest show trade paper, the 
Billboard, came out with the fact or the statement to the effect that 
this union in St. Louis had been notified by the AFL that unless they 
ceased to organize the carnival workers under their union, their charter 
would be revoked. 

When I saw that in the Billboard, I called our bank and asked if the 
check had cleared, and they said no, and I stopped it immediately, 
and I wrote a letter to the bank substantiating my wishes. 

It is a fact that Mr. Karsh did continue organizing the carnival 
workers under the charter of the jewelry workers, and our check by 
the way did come through the bank later on and one of the bookkeepers 
allowed it to pass, and it was cashed, but we were reimbursed for it 
because it was an error on the part of the bank. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you hear from Karsh again? 

Mr. Gooding. I never heard anything more from Karsh. Perhaps 
it was the next winter, and perhaps the second winter when I was in 
Tampa, Fla., I met him in the Tampa Terrace Hotel and he presented 
me with a card whereby he had a charter under the Teamsters Union 
to organize carnival workers, and he was coming up to see me in Co- 
lumbus. I asked him what for, and he said, "to organize your people." 

Mr. Kennedy. This time by the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Gooding. Under the Teamsters Union; yes. I had mentioned 
the fact to him that the bank was trying to locate him because of this 
check which they had had to stand good for, because of an error of 
one of their employees. They wrote the Jewelry Workers Union 
trying to recover this money, and they also wrote Mr. Karsh but were 
never able to get any direct contact. I mentioned the fact to Mr. 
Karsh that they would be glad to see him if he would come into Colum- 
bus and he wanted to know what for, and I said, "Well, they contend 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14429 

you took money under false pretenses, and you had no right to organize 
a union under the Jewelry Workers Union." 

So I never saw Mr. Karsh since, until today. 

The Chairman. Are there any questions ? 

Senator Curtis. I have no questions. 

The Chairman. You regarded the whole procedure and transaction 
an act of extortion? 

Mr. Gooding. Yes ; I was pretty much backed up in the corner on it. 
If our operations had been in one locality, I would have tried to resort 
to an injunction, but we move to so many different locations, that would 
be a difficult problem. 

The Chairman. In other words, they were taking full advantage of 
the nature of your business in order to compel people to join a union 
or to get a payoff from the employer? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

The Chairman. That is all it amounted to ? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

The Chairman. As far as you know, none of your employees were 
ever contacted or any effort made to solicit and persuade them to join 
voluntarily ? 

Mr. Gooding. I cannot be sure of that answer. There may have 
been 2 or 3 people contacted, and I heard that they were, but they 
never told me directly that they were. 

The Chairman. They never presented you any evidence of any 
nature or form whatsoever that a majority of your employees wanted 
a union ? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right ; they did not. 

Senator Curtis. Did any of your employees want Mr. Karsh to 
represent them so far as you know, have any direct communication? 

Mr. Gooding. No, sir. 

Senator Curtis. It was just entirely someone from the outside but- 
ting in ? 

Mr. Gooding. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. If you had gone along, he would have had a writ- 
ten contract that would have put them into an organization that they 
neither wanted nor were ever consulted about? 

Mr. Gooding. That is the sum and substance of it. 

The Chairman. All right. Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hyman J. Powell. 

The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence given 
before this Senate select committee, shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Powell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HYMAN J. POWELL 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Powell. Hyman J. Powell, 19 West 44th Street, New York City, 
secretary-treasurer of the International Jewelry Workers Union. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. Do you waive counsel, Mr. 
Powell ? 



14430 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Powell. I do. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Powell, how long have you been an officer of the 
Jewelry Workers ? 

Mr. Powell. Approximately 12 years. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long have you been secretary-treasurer ? 

Mr. Powell. Approximately 12 years. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many members do the Jewelry Workers have? 

Mr. Powell. Approximately 28,000 members. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were secretary-treasurer then in February of 
1952? 

Mr. Powell. I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. And at that time a charter was issued to local 450 ? 

Mr. Powell. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, that was a charter to cover what kind of an 
organization ? 

Mr. Powell. It covered the employees employed in the carnival 
and amusement field. 

Mr. Kennedy. To whom was that charter issued ? 

Mr. Powell. Application was made to our international union dur- 
ing that period of time by one Harry Karsh, of St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you find out anything about Harry Karsh? 

Mr. Powell. Well, the only investigation as I recollect that was 
made was that we called St. Louis and we spoke to a labor leader in 
that area, and asked him about Mr. Karsh, and spoke to Mr. Gibbons 
who said that he was a good organizer, and on the basis of his being a 
good organizer we issued that charter. 

Mr. Kennedy. You talked to Mr. Gibbons ; did you ? 

Mr. Powell. I don't know whether I spoke to him or somebody in 
my organization, or whether we wrote to him, but I do know some con- 
tact was made with him at that time. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is the one that recommended Mr. Karsh ? 

Mr. Powell. Well, he just answered our question when we asked 
him about Mr. Karsh, and the answer we got was that he was a capable 
organizer. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you find out anything about the fact that he 
had been kicked out of the AFL in 1940 ? 

Mr. Powell. No, sir ; we did not, and we had no knowledge of that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You didn't go into that at all ? 

Mr. Powell. No ; we did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was the name of the local then changed on April 22, 
1952? 

Mr. Powell. It might have been, and I don't have any recollection 
of it, 

Senator Curtis. Would the counsel yield for just one question 
there ? 

Was the jurisdiction of the Jewelry Workers Union, so far as what 
type of employees you consider should belong to your union or are 
entitled to belong? 

Mr. Powell. Workers who are engaged in the manufacturing of 
jewelry, novelties, watches, diamond cutters, diamond setters, en- 
gravers, and people that would have some kinship with our industry. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14431 

Senator Curtis. In the manufacturing end ? 

Mr. Powell. In the manufacturing end. 

Senator Curtis. Did it involve retail salesmen ? 

Mr. Powell. We do have some retail salesmen under agreement, 
yes, in the jewelry field. 

Senator Curtis. But by and large they had to be working with 
jewelry? 

Mr. Powell. That is correct, But I think I might add that in the 
application for a charter when our general executive board deliberated 
and discussed the issuance of such a charter, the conclusions we 
reached were that close to $100 million worth of merchandise were 
being sold or given away at these carnivals, and they were in the 
nature of clocks and watches and other jewelry items. They were 
being made by nonunion people. It was our feeling at the time that 
some pressure might be brought upon these concessionaires if we had 
these workers organized to purchase union-made goods. 

Senator Curtis. Generally speaking, though, you do not represent 
a very great portion of the watchmakers ; do you ? 

Mr. Powell. Well, we represent watchmakers. We represent the 
Benrus workers. We represent 3 or 4 Watch companies engaged in 
the manufacturing and the selling of watches. 

Senator Curtis. The Benrus factories are organized by you? 

Mr. Powell. By our organization ; yes. 

Senator Curtis. None of the other domestic watch companies? 

Mr. Powell. There are 2 or 3 other small companies that are rep- 
resented by us. 

Senator Curtis. Are they jeweled watches ? 

Mr. Powell. These are jeweled watches. 

Mr. Kennedy. On that point, your organization of the carnival 
workers at best is rather farfetched ; isn't it, Mr. Powell ? 

Mr. Powell. I tried to explain our logic in issuing that. 

Mr. Kennedy. You should organize the airplane pilots, then, be- 
cause they carry jewels in the airplanes. 

Mr. Powell. Well, not to the degree that these carnivals had sold 
and given away merchandise that came under our jurisdiction. 

Mr. Kennedy. Or all the truckdrivers, because they carry jewels 
around, or people that also carry watches, organize everybody in the 
United States that has a watch, under that theory. 

Mr. Powell. Well, we have attempted to ask different labor organi- 
zations to notify their membership to purchase union-made goods. 
_ Mr. Kennedy. But under your theory, if you say you have jurisdic- 
tion over the carnival workers union, you have the broadest jurisdic- 
tion of any in the United States. 

Mr. Powell. I never said we had jurisdiction. The best proof is 
that when we were told by our parent organization that we had no 
jurisdiction, we immediately lifted the charter. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you were in a field that you did not belong in, 
obviously. 

Mr. Powell. Evidently. 

The Chairman. I hand you a letter dated April 22, 1952, addressed 
to you from Joseph M. Jacobs, attorney, of Chicago. Will you exam- 
ine the letter and state if you identify it ? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 



14432 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Powell. Yes. 

The Chairman. The letter may be made exhibit No. 87. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 87" for refer- 
ence and will be found in the appendix on p. 14544.) 

Mr. Kennedy. This is a letter from Joseph Jacobs. Who is Joe 
Jacobs? 

Mr. Powell. Joe Jacobs is a labor attorney practicing in the Middle 
West, and he has represented us on many occasions in the Middle West. 

Mr. Kennedy. He has been also closely associated with the Team- 
sters, has he not? 

Mr. Powell. I wouldn't know offhand. 

Mr. Kennedy. This letter from Mr. Joe Jacobs requests that the 
name of the union should be changed to Carnival, Amusement, and 
Novelty Device Workers, Local Union 450 ; is that right ? 

Mr. Powell. That is what it says. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was his interest in it, Mr. Jacobs, at that time ? 

Mr. Powell. Well, as our attorney, we asked him to supervise and 
to check on most of the locals in the Middle West. We are not large 
enough to keep a staff in that area, so Mr. Jacobs did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was he conferring with there in the Middle 
West? 

Mr. Powell. Well, I assumed he was conferring with Mr. Karsh. 

Mr. Kennedy. Here is a letter of May 20, 1952, to Mr. Hyman 
Powell, Hotel Statler, Boston, Mass. 

Dear Hymie : Enclosed is a copy of a letter which we would appreciate your 
sending to me so that we can sidetrack the aspirations of the parties about 
whom I talked to you on the phone. You will be interested to learn that several 
subsequent developments have confirmed the results of Paul's original investiga- 
tion. Under no circumstances should this group be permitted any affiliation 
with our project. I am sorry I missed you, but I hope to see you in Chicago 
next week. Please let us know about your arrival so that we can roll out 
the red carpet. 

Sincerely, 

Joe. 

The Chairman. I present to you the letter that counsel has referred 
to, and ask you if you identify it? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Powell. I do. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit 88. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 88" for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. First, who was Paul ? 

Mr. Powell. I haven't any idea who he was referring to. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have an idea who he was referring to, Mr. 
Powell. 

Mr. Powell. He may have been referring to Mr. Dorfman, I don't 
know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Paul Dorfman ? 

Mr. Powell. I don't know that of my own knowledge. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't that your opinion as to who he was referring 
to here, Mr. Paul Dorfman ? 

Mr. Powell. No, that is not my opinion, because I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, was Mr. Paul Dorfman interested in any way 
in this local union ? 

Mr. Powell. Not to my knowledge. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14433 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he do any work in connection with it? 

Mr. Powell. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, who was Paul, then ? 

Mr. Powell. It might have even been — at that time, there was an- 
other group trying to get a charter through the regional director of 
the A. F. of L., in Chicago. I don't know what their names are or 
who they are. It might have well been one of them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you just tell me last night, when I inter- 
viewed you, it was Paul Dorf man ? 

Mr. Powell. No, I did not. I said I did not know. I said it could 
have been, but I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was this group ? 

Enclosed is a copy of a letter which we would appreciate your sending to me 
so that we can sidetrack the aspirations of the parties about whom I talked to 
you on the phone. 

Mr. Powell. To the best of my recollection, there was a group of 
people in the city of Chicago who were chartered directly, I think, 
by the American Federation of Labor, that has contracts with some 
amusement parks. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there complaints made about this local, the 
operation of this local ? 

Mr. Powell. Not to us there was not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, were there complaints made about it ? 

Mr. Powell. The first time we heard anything was when we were 
notified by the A. F. of L. office that we had issued a charter and it 
was not within our jurisdiction. As soon as we got that information, 
we agreed to revoke the charter. 

Mr. Kennedy. The information we have is that on May 19, 1952, 
at an executive council meeting of the A. F. of L. in Boston, Green 
appointed a three-man rackets committee consisting of Meany, Dubin- 
sky, and McFetridge. They took up complaints and one of the com- 
plaints was regarding your local or this local 450, and one of the com- 
plaints was regarding local 102, Johnnie Dio's local in New York 
City. 

Isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Powell. I don't know about the 102. I do know that they 
notified us that we were to appear before them in Atlantic City around 
that time, and we appeared. They told us what they wanted and we 
agreed to do what they wanted immediately. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get a letter from George Meany, in June 
of 1952? 

Mr. Powell. I think we did. 

The Chairman. I hand you a photostatic copy of the purported 
letter. Will you examine it and state if you identify it? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Powell. Yes, I do. 

The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 89. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 89" for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. He points out in this letter on June 23, 1952, that — 

According to articles appearing in the press, local union charters have been 
issued by national unions affiliated to the American Federation of Labor to 
individuals who are not in any way connected with the trade or calling covered 
by the jurisdiction granted by the American Federation of Labor to the national 
union concerned. 



14434 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Wasn't Mr. Karsh in that position ? 

Mr. Powell. He was. 

Mr. Kennedy. He had not worked at the jewelry trade, had he? 

Mr. Powell. Definitely had not. 

Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Powell. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And he pointed out that — 

These charters have become mediums for a type of activitity that has no resem- 
blance to real trade-union activities? 

Mr. Powell. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. On June 24, 1952, did you send that letter of George 
Meany to anyone ? 

Mr. Powell. I would not remember. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you send it to Joe Jacobs ? 

Mr. Powell. I might have. 

The Chairman. I hand you a carbon copy of a letter, purportedly 
from you to Mr. Joseph Jacobs. Will you examine it and state if you 
identify it as your letter to him ? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Powell. Yes. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit 90. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 90" for refer- 
ence and will be found in the appendix on p. 14545.) 

Mr. Kennedy. This letter, dated June 24, 1956, to Mr. Joseph Ja- 
cobs, 201 North Wells Street, Chicago, 111. 

Dear Joe: Enclosed is a copy of a letter to George Meany. Would suggest 
that you get in touch with me the moment that you get back to Chicago and discuss 
this. Spoke to Paul while he was in New York. He is familiar with it. 
Sincerely yours, 

Hyman J. Powell. 

Who was Paul? 

Mr. Powell. I still don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Powell, you know very well it was Paul Dorf- 
man. You told our investigator up in New York it was Paul Dorf man. 

Mr. Powell. I beg your pardon. I never said that. I want the 
record very clear that I never said it. What I did say was that I did 
not remember who that Paul was, and it could well be Paul Dorfman. 
I don't remember. 

The Chairman. You had a letter here from Mr. Jacobs in which he 
says: 

You will be interested to learn that several subsequent developments have 
confirmed the results of Paul's original investigation. 

That letter is dated May 20, 1952. A month later, a little more than 
a month later, on June 24, 1952, you wire the same man, in which you 
say: 

Spoke to Paul while he was in New York. He is familiar with it. 

Do you mean to tell this committee that you don't know who Paul 
is that you are referring to that you received the letter about ? 

Mr. Powell. I mean to tell the committee that this happened 7 or 
8 years ago, and I don't honestly remember whether it was Paul Dorf- 
man, whether it was a Paul that came out of the regional office of the 
A. F. of L. in Chicago, or what Paul it was. We had spoken to so 
many people at the time. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14435 

The Chairman. You were pretty familiar with it at the time, 
obviously. 

Mr. Powell. At the time, yes. 

The Chairman. Now refresh your memory. Who was it? 

Mr. Powell. I don't remember who it was. 

The Chairman. All right. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. You told me at the office last night — something has 
happened in the last 18 hours to you, Mr. Powell — you said that it 
was Paul Dorfman in front of Mr. Adlerman in my office, and you 
told our investigator in New York who first interviewed you. We 
just did not make this name up. 

Mr. Powell. Now look, Mr. Kennedy, I have profound respect for 
you and this committee. I never said it was Paul. I said it could 
have been. It could have been. And I also mentioned at the time 
that it could have been a Paul from out of the regional office. 

The Chairman. Paul who? 

Mr. Powell. I don't know. I don't know which Paul it was. 

The Chairman. Paul who from the regional office ? 

Mr. Powell. I don't know. One of the organizers. It could have 
been one of the men that had the charter with these novelty or this 
amusement park that was trying to get the charter from the Jewelry 
Workers at the time. 

The Chairman. Is Mr. Jacobs still alive ? 

Mr. Powell. Yes ; he is. 

The Chairman. During the recess, go give him a ring and see if he 
can refresh your memory about who Paul is, will you. 

Mr. Powell. Very good, sir. 

I will be glad to. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have here the extracts of the minutes of the meet- 
ing of the executive council of the American Federation of Labor, of 
August 11 to 15, 1952, Mr. Chairman, which went into this case and 
the situation. I would just like to read some brief excerpts from it. 

The Chairman. That has been identified ? 

Mr. Adlerman, have you been previously sworn ? 

Mr. Adlerman. I have. 

The Chairman. Where did you obtain the documents that counsel 
has? 

Mr. Adlerman. This is part of the official records, the court records, 
that were obtained from the lawsuit between Mr. Karsh and the St. 
Louis Post-Dispatch. 

The Chairman. That may be made exhibit 91. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 91" for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy (reading) : 

Mr. Meany stated that the second case considered was that of the Interna- 
tional Jewelry Workers which issued a charter to a man by the name of Harry 
Karsh, in St. Louis. Mr. Meany said that Mr. Karsh formerly was an A. F. of L. 
organizer in St. Louis and was recommended to the A. F. of L. back in 1952 
by Organizer Theiss in St. Louis. 

Mr. Meany said that President Green let Mr. Karsh out in 1942. Mr. Meany 
said that his activities seemed somewhat questionable and he was laid off. Mr. 
Meany said that Mr. Karsh has now received a charter, Local 450 of the Inter- 
national Jewelry Workers Union, and he proceeded to organize by strong-arm 
methods carnivals and fairs and amusement park employees, people who operate 



14436 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

games and roustabouts. Mr. Meany reported that this was brought to the 
attention of the Jewelry Workers. 

Then it goes on to say that Mr. Powell was called. 

President Joseph Morris and Secretary Hyman Powell were in this morning 
and they were told by the committee pointblank that they should revoke the 
charter, that was issued to this man in St. Louis, and they explained that he 
was recommended by the Teamsters' representative in St. Louis as the man who 
could organize effectively for them. 

Mr. Meany stated the committee told the officers of the international Mr. 
Karsh is not a jewelry worker. 

Then the other matter that is of some interest, Mr. Chairman, is 
the other case that they took up at the same time. 

Secretary-Treasurer Meany stated that the third case that the committee 
was asked to investigate was the issuance of a charter by the United Automobile 
Workers Union, A. F. of L., which was issued to Sam Berger and Paul Dorfman 
and his associates. 

So Paul Dorfman was active in getting these charters issued, w T as he 
not, and you knew about it, Mr. Powell ? 

Mr. Powell. I think you are confusing two things. I had no 
knowledge, nor do I have any knowledge as of this minute, of any local 
102 charter, or any connection whatever of Mr. Dorfman or the 
issuance of such a charter. 

I might point out that as soon as Mr. Meany met with our commit- 
tee, we agreed, readily, to suspend and revoke the charter. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are you familiar with the letter of July 25, 1952, 
to Mr. Meany from Joseph Morris ? 

Mr. Powell. I assume that I was present when that letter was 
written. 

The Chairman. The Chair hands you the carbon copy of the letter 
referred to by counsel and I ask you to examine it and state if you 
identify it ? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Powell. Yes. 

The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 92. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 92" for ref- 
erence, and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to read an excerpt from it, Mr. 
Chairman. 

This is to Mr. Meany, secretary-treasurer, American Federation 
of Labor. The second paragraph reads : 

In your letter you request information concerning a charter described as 
covering employees of an amusement park in Chicago. No such charter has 
been issued. We did issue a charter to the Amusement Novelty Device and 
Carnival Workers Union, local 450, Mr. Harry Karsh of St. Louis, business 
agent and president of that local union. He was recommended by Mr. Harold 
Gibbons of the Teamsters' organization in St. Louis, with whom Karsh worked 
for several years. Mr. Gibbons further advised me that Karsh had been an 
official organizer for the American Federation of Labor between 1940 and 194."> 
or 1946. I do not know of any previous conduct which would disqualify him 
from acting in his present capacity. 

If you have any information to the contrary, I would appreciate your com- 
municating it to me, so that we make take appropriate action. 

Then he goes on to point out that the local union then had approxi- 
mately 2,000 members. The letter goes on for 2 or 3 pages, Mr. 
Chairman. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14437 

The Chairman. I hand you what purports to be a photostatic copy 
of a letter dated July 11, 1952, from you to Mr. Joseph Jacobs. Will 
you examine it and identify it, please? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Powell. Yes. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 93. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 93'' for ref- 
erence, and will be found in the appendix on p. 14546.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I just want to point out one thing. It says: "To 
Joseph Jacobs, Esq." 

This is from Hyman Powell, July 11, 1952. 

This will introduce Harold Mark, the accountant who set up the books for the 
two locals we spoke about. I expect to see you on Tuesday. Hyman J. Powell. 

What were the two locals that you had in mind at that time? 

Mr. Powell. The Carnival, Amusement, and a miscellaneous local 
that was going to be operating in the Chicago area. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to get Mr. Harold Mark on 
that? 

Mr. Powell. Harold Mark is a man that I have known for over 30 
years. He was an accountant in the city of New York practicing, 
working for the Hotel and Restaurant Workers Union. He did a 
great deal of traveling for them, and audited the books of many 
Chicago, Detroit, and St, Louis local unions. We thought he might 
be the proper man to use in that connection. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Mark, as you know, appeared 
before the committee. He is the one that received a $150,000 loan from 
Mr. Hoffa's local and Mr. Bert Brennan's local, and he was the one 
that was involved in these two questionable dealings before the com- 
mittee when we had our hearings back in September of last year. 

Mr. Powell. At the time that I recommended him there, I had no 
knowledge whatsoever, and even at this time, that he represented any 
of the Teamsters' locals in that area. 

Mr. Kennedy. It is just the same names. 

Mr. Powell. It is the same person. 

Mr. Kennedy. The same names come up involved in questionable 
activities lately, the same people that were involved in this local, 
involved in local 102, and involved in the issuance of several Team- 
sters' locals in New York City that we will be getting into at a later 
time. 

You withdrew the charter, then, did you ? 

Mr. Powell. Yes, we did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to Mr. Karsh ? 

Mr. Powell. Well, after we withdrew the charter, we did not know. 

Mr. Kennedy. What happened to the money that he had in the 
treasury ? 

Mr. Powell. We made no attempt to take any of the money or to 
seize any of the books or records. 

Mr. Kennedy. He just walked off with the money, then? 

Mr. Powell. As far as we were concerned we don't know just what 
happened to him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, he got the money ? 

Mr. Powell. I assume that the money was wherever it was at the 
time, in his possession. 



14438 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. You mean you allowed him to go out with a charter 
of your union, collect dues, and then you revoked the charter and let 
him keep all the dues ? 

Mr. Powell. Well, we assumed that he can't keep it, that the mem- 
bership, that the local union, remains an independent organization, 
and, consequently, they have access to the moneys and to the assets of 
the local union. 

Mr. Kennedy. You knew that did not happen. 

Mr. Powell. Well, I have to admit that I assumed that that did not 
happen. 

The Chairman. Did the international get any money out of it? 

Mr. Powell. I think $25, our charter fee. 

The Chairman. Did you get any part of the dues collected ? 

Mr. Powell. No ; we did not. 

The Chairman. What were they supposed to pay out of the dues 
collected ? 

Mr. Powell. They were supposed to pay us 70 cents per member per 
month, per capita. 

The Chairman. Did you ever check on it to get your share of it ? 

Mr. Powell. No ; we did not. 

The Chairman. Why? 

Mr. Powell. Because it has been the history in the labor movement 
that when local unions were first chartered, that the first couple of 
months that they were in existence, that whatever money was collected 
was used to further their organizational activities. 

The Chairman. Is that a part of your constitution ? 

Mr. Powell. No, sir. 

The Chairman. What does your constitution say about it ? 

Mr. Powell. It provides that they must send us per capita tax every 
month if they are to remain in good standing within our international 
framework. 

The Chairman. You did not undertake to enforce the provisions 
of your constitution, then, did you ? 

Mr. Powell. No ; we did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, here are two letters of August 14 and 
August 20, revoking the charter of the local. 

The Chairman. I present to you here a photostatic copy of a letter 
signed by you, addressed to Harry Karsh, dated August 20, 1952, and 
also a carbon copy of a letter, presumably addressed by you to Carni- 
val, Amusement, and Novelty Device Workers Local 450, dated 
August 14, 1952. I ask you to examine the two and state if you 
identify them. 

( The documents were handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Powell. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The one bearing the earliest date may be made 
exhibit No. 94, and the second one 94-A. 

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibits Nos. 94 and 
94-A" for reference and will be found in the appendix on pp. 14547- 
14548.) 

The Chairman. Are there any questions ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Your union is under investigation at the present 
time? 

Mr. Powell. By the ethical practices committee ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. All right. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14439 

Senator Curtis. I might ask this : What particular phases of your 
operations are being investigated by the ethical practices committee? 

Mr. Powell. Supposedly exploitation of Puerto Kican workers in 
the New York area. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 45. 

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock, the committee recessed to reconvene at 
1 : 45 p. m., Thursday, August 28, 1958.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the reconvening of the session, the following members were 
present : Senators McClellan and Curtis. ) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Herbert Dotten. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Dotten. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HERBERT DOTTEN 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please, sir. 

Mr. Dotten. My name is Herbert Dotten. I reside at 77 Black- 
hawk Drive, Park Forest, 111. I am the outdoor editor of the Bill- 
board, a weekly publication covering the amusement field. 

The Chairman. You are the editor of it or publisher ? 

Mr. Dotten. Editor. 

The Chairman. You waive counsel ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we took Karsh up to 1952, August- 
September of 1952, when his charter was revoked by the Jewelry 
Workers Union. 

In 1953 and 1954 he was working in St. Louis. There is some evi- 
dence that he was attempting to get information on Mr. Harold 
Gibbons during that period of time for a certain group that was inter- 
ested in the activities of Mr. Gibbons. 

He became, again, very friendly to Nathan Shefferman. According 
to the information we have, through the intervention of Nathan W. 
Shefferman, with Dave Beck, Mr. Karsh was able to obtain a charter 
from the Teamsters Union. This was in 1955. Again, to organize 
the carnival workers. Now in 1955, which is the date we are going 
into, and his activities in the Teamsters Union, he now had a charter, 
local 447, from the Teamsters Union. 

Mr. Dotten, I believe you stated you are the outdoor editor of the 
magazine Billboard ? 

Mr. Dotten. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the circulation of Billboard ? 

Mr. Dotten. ABC circulation of 52,000 to 54,000. 

Air. Kennedy. What is the Billboard? Where does that circulate? 



14440 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Dotten. Well, in the outdoor amusement field we have been 
established 64 years, and we are the recognized publication in the 
outdoor amusement field. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is one of the areas you are interested in the carnivals 
and circuses? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you specifically go around to various carnivals 
and circuses? 

Mr. Dotten. I cover some. 

Mr. Kennedy. I mean, do you follow them on occasion ? 

Mr. Dotten. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you report the news regarding their activities ? 

Mr. Dotten. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did it come to your attention during 1952, I believe, 
the activities of Mr. Harry Karsh ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you find out about that ? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, we found out that here was a gentleman who we 
felt was not a responsible labor leader, was not in the field to do a job 
for the people engaged in the business, and we were highly suspect 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you speak up a little louder, please ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. We were highly suspect of his activities. 

Mr. Kennedy. For what reason ? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, I think the principal one was the incident at 
Fort Wayne on which testimony was given this morning. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us a little bit about the operation of 
these carnivals or circuses as far as their being vulnerable to improper 
activities on the part of an individual like Mr. Karsh ? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, a carnival is exposed physically. It operates 
without any walls protecting it. It is completely in the open. On 
top of that, it must get to a particular place at a particular time, and 
leave the particular place at a particular time. It must be there to 
operate. It cannot have work stoppages or should not have work 
stoppages if the business is to be a reasonably sound business and the 
people engaged in it are to have a good livelihood. A carnival con- 
sists of a good many different things, rides, shows, food and drink 
concessions. 

In the average carnival, there are a great many independent oper- 
ators who, in turn, employ their own people. These units, whether 
they are rides or shows, or concessions, in turn, hire their own em- 
ployees. These independent operators sometimes operate on a per- 
centage basis, sometimes on an outright payment basis. Moreover, they 
do not always remain constantly with the same show throughout the 
year because the size of a date or an engagement will determine what 
units go into a particular town. 

The carnival business, I might add, is dependent in a great measure 
upon the agricultural fairs of this country and Canada, of which we 
have about 2,000, and these 2,000 fairs draw approximately 85 million 
people annually. This may, to the lay person, seem to be a very large 
figure, but I should like to point out at the present time the Minnesota 
State Fair is on at St. Paul, and this event has in the past, each year, 
drawn 1 million people in 10 days. Simultaneously, this week we 
have the Iowa State Fair at Des Moines, attracting a half million 
people. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14441 

We also have on at the present time the Ohio State Fair, which will 
draw more than half a million people, and this weekend we will have 
the State fair start in Nebraska, at Lincoln; New York State Fair, 
at Syracuse; the Indiana State Fair, at Indianapolis; and a lot of 
other major fairs. 

These fairs feature a carnival, and in a good many States there are 
regulations which prescribe the proper operation of a carnival at a 
fair. In addition to the fairs which support the carnivals and provide 
the people, there are a great many celebrations, fiestas, sponsored 
throughout the country by churches, volunteer fire departments, vet- 
erans organizations, and service clubs. These units go in — and I am 
repeating myself — but they are exposed physically, they are in a 
strange State, and in a good many of these States there are no laws 
to protect them at the present time if there are unscrupulous labor 
practices. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about their animals? 

Mr. Dotten. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Kennedy. They carry animals with them? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes; they carry animals. 

Mr. Kennedy. Does that also create a problem for the carnival 
owners as far as if they were tied up by an unscrupulous 

Mr. Dotten. Obviously, yes, if they were tied up, there is a danger 
to the animal. There are all kinds of animals that are carried, ranging 
from horses to snakes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any reports that any of these carnival 
owners were approached by Mr. Karsh and told that it would be 
unfortunate if the water or their grain was poisoned, or anything 
like that? 

Mr. Dotten. Not in those words ; no, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were the words that were used ? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, the impression I got was that here was a man 
who proposed to organize this particular field, and not exercise what 
would be known as good labor practices to do this. There were various 
possible things that might happen. 

You heard the testimony this morning of the show that was delayed 
a good many hours at Fort Wayne. 

I should like to point out that shows playing large fairs sometimes 
have to put up a performance bond, which stipulates that they are 
to have everything up and in operation at a certain hour on a certain 
day. 

If they fail to do this they forfeit this bond, and they not only 
forfeit the bond, but they forfeit the money that they would make if 
they were operating that particular period. 

But under the present laws that we have, there is no protection 
for these people, and as a result, I might add, of the situation involving 
Mr. Karsh and the Carnival Allied Workers Union, we, as a publica- 
tion, and I, as an individual, brought charges of unfair labor practices 
against Mr. Karsh, the Allied Workers Union, and a carnival. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you do this ? 

Mr. Dotten. This was subsequent to a meeting in Evansville, Ind., 
in 1955. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was when he was with the Teamsters Union; 
is that right? 

21243— 59— pt. 3S 20 



14442 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you present at a meeting of the Eoyal Ameri- 
can Shows? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. A meeting had been called of all the employees; is 
that right? 

Mr. Dotten. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Kennedy. A meeting had been called by the owner, Mr. Sedl- 
mayr, of all the employees ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is S-e-d-1-m-a-y-r ; is that correct ; 

Mr. Dotten. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many employees came ; approximately ? 

Mr. Dotten. There were approximately 400 employees there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Sedlmayr address the meeting ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes ; he did. He opened the meeting. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was Mr. Harry Karsh there with him ? 

Mr. Dotten. He was. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the situation — what was stated to the 
employees at that time — and what were the events that had preceded 
the meeting? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, Mr. Sedlmayr opened the meeting by saying 
that everybody was familiar with the purpose of the meeting. He 
recalled that 2 weeks previously, at Nashville, Tenn., he and Mr. 
Karsh had met and discussed with people the union, and they were 
familiar with the purpose of this particular meeting. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell the committee what was said at the 
meeting about joining the union ? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, Mr. Sedlmayr, after opening in this fashion, 
turned the meeting over to Mr. Karsh, who said that the contract 
would provide for a $2 increase in wages on a weekly basis, and 
provide for group insurance. 

Mr. Kennedy. $2 increase in the minimum wage ? 

Mr. Dotten. In the minimum wage; yes, sir. But a very few 
people on this particular show were getting anywhere near this 
minimum. 

Mr. Kennedy. So it actually would not mean an increase in wage 
for any of the folks ? 

Mr. Dotten. I don't believe it would, sir. The only thing that 
would be new would be group insurance. 

Mr. Kennedy. And did he tell the people that they should join the 
union ? 

Just describe what happened. 

Mr. Dotten. Well, Mr. Karsh explained in answer to a question 
that this time they were organizing under a strong union. He had 
organized previously under the Jewelry Workers Union and he de- 
scribed that union as a weak union, and he said that this particular 
union, the Teamsters Union, was a powerful union. He indicated 
that, further, such provisions of the contract were only what he 
termed a beginning. When questioned about what had happened 
with the A. F. of I. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you mean with the Jewelry Workers ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes. When they asked for the revocation of the 
charter, he said, "Well, the A. F. of L. can go to blazes." 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14443 

Mr. Kennedy. "Go to blazes" ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were the people interested in joining the union? 

Mr. Dotten. My impression, of course — and in a position such as 
mine you know a good many people on the show — my impression was 
that they did not want to join if they were left to their own devices. 
As a matter of fact, they were militantly opposed to it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why were they opposed to joining the union? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, I think in this particular business you have the 
real sense of troopers, and in a show of this type almost a family kind 
of existence. It is not necessarily paternalistic, but this is a way of 
life for these people as well as a way to make a living. They live 
together for about 26 months, they travel together, they eat together, 
they visit all these cities together, they go to winter quarters together, 
and they belong to the show clubs, these show clubs of which we have 
about 12, roughly, throughout the country. 

They have their own — not hospitals, but their own cemeteries, pro- 
vide medical aid to members, hospitalization to those who are needy. 
A good many of these people have a spirit of being free enterprisers, 
whether they have a frozen-custard stand, or a ride, or a show. They 
have this sort of spirit. The only thing that they like to do is just go 
out and operate and hope that the weather is good. 

Mr. Kennedy. You said 26 months. I believe you mean 26 weeks. 

Mr. Dotten. I beg your pardon. I am sorry. 

Mr. Kennedy. They joined the union. Why did they join the union, 
then? 

Mr. Dotten. Well, it is my impression, sir, that they joined it be- 
cause they either recognized that Mr. Sedlmayr, the owner, was over 
a barrel 

Mr. Kennedy. Did any of them state that to you ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes. They put it this way, that Mr. Sedlmayr had 
told them that he, Mr. Sedlmayr, was over a barrel. 

(At this point, members of the committee present are Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. So after this meeting took place were the cards pas- 
sed out among the employees ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Sedlmayr's son help and assist people in 
getting people signed up ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had there been a contract signed before this ? 

Mr. Dotten. I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. After this meeting you brought an action before the 
National Labor Kelations Board ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Against the show as well as against Harry Karsh ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us what the results of that were ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes; the regional board at Indianapolis, Ind., refused 
to take certain jurisdiction. We appealed to Washington and again 
the National Labor Relations Board refused to take jurisdiction. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the end of it ? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. 



14444 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. Did they hold that a traveling show was not inter- 
state commerce ? 

Mr. Dotten. They cited, as I recall it, two precedents. One in- 
volving a Philadelphia symphony orchestra and another case involving 
the Detroit stadium which I believe revolves around hockey. 

The Chairman. As I understand these carnivals, they travel from 
State to State? 

Mr. Dotten. Yes, sir. In the case of this particular show, sir, they 
moved from Tampa, Fla., to Calgary, Canada. I would say they 
played in 11 States in this country and at least 3 Provinces in Canada. 
They have quite a substantial amount of equipment and they buy a 
substantial amount of merchandise, all of which would be basis for 
coming under the jurisdiction so far as the National Labor Relations 
Board. 

The Chairman. I am not immediately challenging the decision but 
I assume it was based on the fact they found they were not engaged 
in interstate commerce, the interstate commerce clause of the Con- 
stitution did not cover a traveling show, from State to State ? 

Mr. Dotten. I presume so. 

The Chairman. Do you have any questions, Senator Curtis ? 

Senator Curtis. No questions. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Dotten. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. We had intended to have John Ringling North of 
the Ringling Brothers-Barnum & Bailey Circus. He had gone to 
Europe. So all we are able to do was to get an affidavit from him. 
"We also have an affidavit from his manager at the time when Mr. 
Karsh was attempting to organize his circus. 

The Chairman. The affidavit from John Ringling North, dated 
9th of June 1958, may be read in the record at this point, Mr. Counsel, 
so that we may be acquainted with its contents. 

Here is an affidavit from Michael Burke dated the 18th of July 
1958. It may be read in the record at this point. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Burke, Mr. Chairman, is also abroad. He is in 
London, England. 

Now Mr. John Ringling North states : 

I am president of Ringling Brothers-Barnum & Bailey Combined Shows, Inc., 
Sarasota, Fla., and have been served with a subpena issued by said committee. 
My information concerning the attempts of Mr. Harry Karsh and Mr. Harold 
Gibbons to organize the circus employees on behalf of the Teamsters Local 447 
is partly first hand and partly obtained from Mr. Michael Burke. Mr. Burke 
was general manager of the circus in 1955 and 1956, but is now employed by 
the Columbia Broadcasting System in Europe. 

On August 12, 1955, Mr. Karsh appeared in Denver, where the circus was show- 
ing, to discuss organization of the employees, but Mr. Burke refused, stating 
that he was not in a position to grant recognition. Mr. Karsh said that we would 
hear from him. 

On September 2, 1955, we opened in San Francisco and encountered heavy 
picketing by the Teamsters. On September 6 about 50 Teamsters showed up, 
attempted to prevent the circus from moving, and tried to divert the drivers. 
They were not successful. We experienced picketing through the remainder of 
the 1955 season. Mr. Burke was in touch with Mr. Karsh from time to time, and 
there were threats of physical harm to our drivers. 

I went to Miami with Mr. Burke during the winter of 1955-56, where we met 
with Mr. Harold Gibbons and Mr. James Hoffa. They said thev were interested 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14445 

in obtaining recognition. They emphasized that the Teamsters, and no one else, 
would organize the circuses. 

Mr. Burke remained in touch with Mr. Gibbons, and Mr. Gibbons stated that if 
we recognized the Teamsters our troubles would clear up. There was no indica- 
tion, to my knowledge that the employees wanted to join the Teamsters, or that 
the Teamsters were dealing directly with the employees in an effort to sign them 
up. Mr. Burke told Mr. Gibbons that he would not deliver the employees to the 
Teamsters. 

In the spring of 1956, I met with Mr. Gibbons, Mr. Burke, and Mrs. Anna 
Rosenberg, a consultant. Mr. Gibbons said he wanted a contract, but nothing 
came of the meeting. Picketing started before the show opened at Madison 
Square Garden in New York City, and Mr. Richard Kavner, a Teamster organ- 
izer, said it would be necessary to sign a contract with- local 447 in order to have 
the picket line removed. 

We were scheduled to stage a performance for television the day before our 
first public performance, but the picket line prevented the moving of television 
equipment into the Garden. We obtained a temporary injunction about 6 or 7 
p. in., the evening before the scheduled TV performance, but the pickets remained 
on duty until the next morning when the judge reemphasized the requirement 
of having them removed. They were then removed, the show went on, and 
there was no more picketing until the injunction was withdrawn, after which 
picketing resumed. 

We next showed in Boston where there was set up a rival circus supported by 
the American Guild of Variety Artists (AGVA), but I do not know whether the 
Teamsters were involved. I was not present at the circus lot or the railroad- 
yard when we had trouble with the Teamsters in Philadelphia, but Mr. Burke 
reported that the police took part because of the violence, and there were news- 
paper accounts at the time (which I read) of beatings and damage to trucks. 

Because of these labor difficulties, we were several hours late in opening in 
Philadelphia. Our attorney, Robert Thrun, called on Noyelles Burkhardt, who 
was employed by the circus at the time as an adjuster, to make an investigation. 
Much of the information in this and the preceding paragraphs of this statement 
is based upon reports to me by Mr. Burke rather than my own direct, personal 
knowledge. The show closed primarily for economic reasons related to the 
type of operation then conducted and not because of the labor troubles, and 
its closing represented a basic decision to discontinue a tent show operation. 

After this closing I reengaged Mr. Arthur M. Concello, who had been manager 
several years previously, as manager, and plans were made for the reopening of 
the show in enclosed arenas where possible and where that was not possible, 
without a tent in baseball grounds and fairgrounds. Mr. Concello stated that 
these arenas and areas were for the most part unionized and that this method 
of operation would involve contact with other union members such as elec- 
tricians and deliverymen and that in his opinion it undoubtedlv would he 
necessary to be unionized. 

As a consequence of the closing of the show, the circus then had no employees 
(except for a few individuals whose function it was to take care of the animals 
in winter quarters and to take care of the circus grounds and equipment there). 
Prior to the opening of the 1957 show, at a time when I was in New York, Mr. 
Concello entered negotiations with Mr. Harry Karsh of the Teamsters who was 
in Florida and reached an agreement upon a contract, which, according to Mr. 
Concello, was on the same terms as the agreement between the Teamsters and 
the Royal American Shows, a major carnival. 

This contract calls for (1) $4 a month dues under the checkoff system; (2) 
payment of $8 a month by the circus for each employee to cover health and 
death benefits; and (3) a minimum salary of $50 a week. The contract covers 
drivers, laborers, and roustabouts only, not the performers. About 100 employees 
are involved and the contract runs for 3 years. Much of the information in 
this paragraph is based on reports to me by Mr. Concello rather than my own 
direct, personal knowledge. 

I have read the above statement and it is true to the best of my knowledge 
and belief. 

(Signed) John Ringling North. 



14446 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

This is the affidavit of Mr. Michael Burke. 

July 18, 1958. 
Great Britain and Northern Ireland, 

Embassy of the United States of America, London, England, ss: 
Robert F. Kennedy. Esq., 

Chief Counsel, United States Senate Select Committee on Improper Activi- 
ties in the Labor or Management Field. 

Dear Mr. Kennedy : In response to your letter of July 15, I was executive 
director of Ringling Bros., Barnum & Bailey Circus in 1955 and 1956 when Team- 
ster Local 447 was attempting to organize circus employees. 

I was first approached by Harry Karsh on August 12, 1955, in Denver Colo., 
when he came aboard my railroad car, the Jomar, accompanied by two unidenti- 
fied colleagues and stated that he wanted the circus to sign a contract with the 
Teamster's Union. I replied that I was unprepared to discuss seriously his 
proposal without studying all its ramifications and without having established 
the attitude of our circus employees. There was an unpleasant exchange and 
Karsh and his friends left with Karsh threatening "you'll hear more from me." 

A canvass of our employees by myself and Manager Lloyd Morgan determined 
that the Teamsters represented none of our employees. Karsh's maneuver can 
be accurately described as an attempt to organize from the top. 

There was no further Teamster activity until we reached San Francisco on 
September 2 for a week's engagement at the Cow Palace. As soon as we opened 
there the Teamsters threw out a strong picket line. None of our employees was 
included among the pickets. 

As we prepared to leave the Cow Palace on Monday night, September 5, a 
crowd of approximately 200 pickets gathered around the rear exit from the 
Cow Palace in a concerted effort to stop our movement from the Cow Palace to 
the railroad crossing where we would be loading the train for our next move. 
The first of our vehicles to leave the Cow Palace grounds were 3 tractors and 6 
or 8 trucks. The trucks got through the antagonistic crowd successfully, hav- 
ing rolled up the windows of their cabs and locked their doors, but the 3 tractor 
drivers were pulled off their seats and the tractors demobilized within 100 yards 
of the gate. 

We subsequently got the drivers back on the tractors (I rode one myself) and 
got to the railroad crossing. Thereafter our movement was not seriously ham- 
pered due to the assistance of the San Francisco police. 

During the balance of our road tour — that is, until we returned to Sarasota on 
December 4 — there was no serious trouble although the show was picketed by 
a group of pickets which trailed us across the country. 

On November 27, however, while we were playing in Miami I met with Karsh 
and Harold Gibbons, head of the Teamsters organization in St. Louis, at their 
request. This time it was Gibbons who proposed that we sign a contract with 
the Teamsters; I protested on the ground that they represented none of eur 
employees. 

Gibbons pointed out that we were planning to take a reduced version of the 
circus to Cuba during the Christmas-New Year holiday season and that unless 
we reached some agreement with the Teamsters our livestock and equipment 
might never reach Cuba. He cited a recent Teamsters-Longshoreman's pact 
and said that the longshoremen would make certain that our animals and 
equipment never left the Florida docks. The meeting broke up on that note. 

Some days later I received a phone call from either Gibbons or Karsh during 
which I agreed to meet Jimmy Hoffa and Gibbons in Miami early in February 
1956 to further discuss the same subject. 

No difficulties occurred with our movement to or from Cuba in late December 
and early January. 

John North, chairman of the board of the circus, and I met with Jimmy Hoffa 
and Harold Gibbons in a Miami hotel on February 11, 1956 ; to our surprise 
Mr. Jackie Bright of the AGVA was also present. Much the same proposition 
was put forward except this time the demand was broadened to include our 
performing personnel. We were asked simultaneously to agree to sign contracts 
with the Teamsters representing all nonperforming personnel, and with AGVA 
representing all performing personnel. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14447 

We rejected these proposals again on the grounds that the Teamsters had no 
representation among our employees and that AGVA membership among circus 
performers was certainly not more than 5 percent. 

This extended meeting terminated on the note that if we did not reach an 
agreement with both the Teamsters and the AGVA prior to our scheduled spring 
opening in Madison Square Garden, we would never get the show on ; we were 
told flatly that we would never get into the Garden. This again was purely and 
simply an effort to organize from the top. 

The circus' arrival in New York in the spring of 1956 coincided with the 
trouble within the Teamsters organization in New York between the incumbent 
head, Martin Lacey, and Johnnie O'Rourke. In former years we had had con- 
tracts, with the New York Teamsters covering our movement from the railroad 
yards to Madison Square Garden, and similar arrangements were laid on for 
the 1956 engagement. We were dependent upon local truckers for the delivery 
of dirt to the Garden (we always played on a dirt surface), for the delivery of 
feed for our livestock, and for the hauling away of refuse. 

All of these services were cut off when the Teamsters and the AGVA threw 
a picket line around Madison Square Garden from the moment we took posses- 
sion ; that is to say, at midnight on April 1. The truckers had hauled our dirt 
to the Garden but refused to drive their trucks through the picket line into the 
Garden. 

About 2 Monday morning April 2 I was invited out into 49th Street for a 
sidewalk meeting with a man whose name I think was Kavner, who said he 
represented local 447. He offered to call off the pickets and to permit delivery 
of our dirt into the Garden if I would sign contracts on the spot with both 
Teamsters Local 447 and with the AGVA. 

I refused to do so. We were therefore unable to take delivery of our dirt in 
the Garden and during the next several hours had to improvise a coc-matting 
surface for the floor area. Meanwhile our own vehicles and drivers continued 
to work driving back and forth across the picket lines without any particular 
difficulty. Again, none of our own employees was on the picket line. 

A temporary restraining order issued on Tuesday, April 3, permitted the 
Columbia Broadcasting System to move its camera and other equipment into 
the Garden for a television show which was broadcast from the Garden that 
night. 

After the television show we were rehearsing when about 2 on the morning 
of April 4 we were visited by Johnnie O'Rourke. O'Rourke said Hoffa had 
asked him to talk to us and see if we could not come to some agreement. His 
proposal in essence was that if we would make a "gentleman's agreement" to 
sign a contract with the Teamsters Union at the end of our 1956 road tour, the 
Teamsters would call off their plan to halt the circus. 

We maintained that there was no valid basis on which we could commit our 
employees to a closed-shop arrangement with the Teamsters Union. None of our 
employees had evidenced any desire or intent to become members of the Teamsters 
organization. This was apparently our last chance to make peace with the 
Teamsters. 

The official circus opening on April 4 was a benefit for the Police Athletic 
League and, if my memory serves me, the AGVA withdrew its pickets during that 
one benefit performance. 

Once we left New York and started on our road tour we were beset by an 
increasing number of difficulties. Sugar in the fuel tanks and motorized equip- 
ment immobilized by damage were common occurrences. There were no further 
discussions or negotiations with the Teamsters Union ; there was merely a tacit 
understanding that we planned to keep going as long as we could in the face of 
Teamster and AGVA harassment. As you know, we took the circus off the road 
on July 16 and returned to Sarasota. 

To answer your other specific questions. I do not recall whether Karsh or 
others advised the workers that they would be required to join the union within 
30 days or be discharged ; the proposed contract did, however, call for a closed- 
shop agreement whereby all workers would be required to join the union. I do 
not recall Karsh's making any proposals to us with regard to the payment of dues 
and welfare benefits ; these proposals were made by Harold Gibbons and Jimmy 
Hoffa. Dues and welfare benefits were to be paid by the management but no 
specific recipient was named. Dues were to be paid under the checkoff system. 



14448 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I do not know if this is the kind of information you are seeking but it repre- 
sents an accurate thumbnail sketch of our dealings with the Teamsters. For the 
sake of brevity I have left out a number of minor incidents, all of which fell 
within the general framework of our relationship. 
Very truly yours, 

Michael Burke. 

Sworn to and subscribed before me this 29th day of July 1958. 

[seal] Catherine A. Rock, 

Consul of the United States of America at London, England. 

Service No. Tariff Item No. 58-A. No fee prescribed. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis. ) 

The Chairman. Does he state there why he took the circus off the 
road? 

Mr. Kennedy. The implication, Mr. Chairman, is because of the 
difficulties they were having. Mr. North said it was a basic policy de- 
cision, and I think that both of their affidavits have the implication 
also that a major point was the difficulty and trouble they were having 
with the Teamsters Union at that time. 

We will have some figures in the record showing how much money 
they felt was lost because of the trouble that they were having with 
the Teamsters. 

We have a police report, Mr. Chairman, on the violence that took 
place in Philadelphia, which I will not read in. 

The Chairman. Who obtained the police report? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Langenbacher. 

TESTIMONY OF IRWIN LANGENBACHER— Resumed 

The Chairman. You have been previously sworn, have you ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Yes, sir, I have been sworn. 

The Chairman. Where and how did you obtain this police report 
of 1956? 

Mr. Langenbacher. I obtained it in Philadalphia, from the officer 
in charge of the labor squad. 

The Chairman. Is this a part of the official files of the police rec- 
ords of Philadelphia ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Is is. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 95. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 95" for ref- 
erence and may be found in the files of the select committee. ) 

Mr. Kennedy. In answer to your question before, Mr. Chairman, 
I would like to repeat that "there was no further discussion or negoti- 
ation with the Teamsters Union. There was merely a tacit under- 
standing that we planned to keep going as long as we could in the 
face of Teamster and AGVA harassment. 

The Chairman. How long was it after that before they disbanded 
the circus? 

Mr. Kennedy. In that year. 

The Chairman. In the same year? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to Mr. North's affidavit, there was a 
rival circus formed in Boston during this period of time. In that 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14449 

connection, we have called as a witness the head of AGVA, Mr. 
Bright. 

The Chairman. Come forward, Mr. Bright. 

You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate 
select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bright. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JACK BRIGHT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
HAROLD F. BERG 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please, sir. 

Mr. Bright. My name is Jack Bright. My address at home is 435 
East 14th Street, Manhattan, New York. I am the national admin- 
istrative secretary for the American Guild of Variety Artists. 

The Chairman. You have counsel with you ? 

Mr. Bright. I do. 

The Chairman. Identify yourself, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Berg. Harold F. Berg, 521 Fifth Avenue, New York City. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to say at the beginning, Mr. Chairman, 
that Mr. Bright and the union have cooperated completely with the 
committee in the course of its investigation. It is not a study being 
made of any personal dishonesty. I think that based on the facts 
that we know, AGVA's position toward Ringling Bros, was far dif- 
ferent from the Teamsters' position toward Ringling Bros. There 
is certainly some evidence as I understand it that AGVA, the union 
that Mr. Bright represents, had a number of the employees or a num- 
ber of the performers, who were interested in joining AGVA, and they 
were having difficulties with the Teamsters Union. What we are 
going to go into, as I have explained to Mr. Bright, is the formation — 
chiefly we are going into the formation of the circus up in Boston. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Just tell us a litle bit about the union, Mr. Bright. 
What is your position in it? Are you elected or appointed? 

Mr. Bright. I am appointed, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. By whom ore you appointed ? 

Mr. Bright. By the national board of AGVA. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they are elected? 

Mr. Bright. By the membership of AGVA. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you are the chief paid employee ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Bright. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When were you appointed to your position ? 

Mr. Bright. In June of 1955. 

Mr. Kennedy. Prior to that time, you had been a performer 
yourself? 

Mr. Bright. For 28 years ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many members do you have in your union? 

Mr. Bright. Approximately at this moment, in and out, 22,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. And what is the jurisdiction of AGVA? 

Mr. Bright. AGVA's jurisdiction, sir, extends to nightclubs, 
theaters, hotels, parks, fairs, expositions, sportsmen shows, circuses, 
carnivals, showboats. 



14450 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. And you cover the performers ; is that right ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you become head of AGVA ? 

Mr. Bright. In June of 1955. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you begin then an organizational drive of 
AGVA? 

Mr. Bright. I did, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You had some conferences with Mr. John Ringling 
North ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you told him at that time that you wanted to 
get a contract, that a number of the performers were interested in 
joining your union ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And he expressed no interest in signing a contract; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes and no. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, he kept putting you off ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. He explained on his side that they were having a 
difficult financial time ; is that right? 

Mr. Bright. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you explained that you felt that the performers 
were not being paid enough ? 

Mr. Bright. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ultimately meet with Mr. James Hoffa and 
Mr. Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Bright. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you meet with them ? 

Mr. Bright. I think it was in February of 1956, in Miami Beach, 
Fla. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who introduced you to them ? 

Mr. Bright. Our local counsel from Chicago, a gentleman by the 
name of Joseph Kamen, I believe his name is. 

Mr. Kennedy. Joseph whom ? 

Mr. Bright. Kamen, I believe it is. Joe Kamen, I think. No, 
Joseph Jacobs. I am sorry, Kamen was his law partner. Joseph 
Jacobs. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he down there with you ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes ; he was. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did that meeting come about ? 

Did Mr. Gibbons and Mr. Hoffa call you and make the arrange- 
ments ? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir. I had never met Mr. Gibbons or Mr. Hoffa 
at that particular moment. I was on vacation with my wife in Miami. 
Mr. Jacobs was vacationing, likewise, and at that particular moment 
one of the AFL-CIO executive council meetings was being held in 
Florida. I believe it was at the Monte Carlo Hotel. Mr. Jacobs said, 
"You know there are some people down here who are also having 
trouble with Ringling. As a matter of fact, they were picketing them 
last season." 

I said, "Oh, yes." 

He said, "Yes, Mr. Gibbons is here. It might be a good idea to meet 
him." 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14451 

So he, Mr. Jacobs, introduced me to Mr. Gibbons. During my 
course of conversation with Mr. Gibbons, he said, "How are you doing 
with Mr. North?" 

I said, "Pretty bad. I am getting a good stall and runaround." 

He said, "Well, he is coming up here next Saturday to meet us." 

I said, "Is there any way to meet him? I can't seem to meet him 
by phone." 

He said, "Well, I think that can be arranged." 

That Saturday afternoon, Mr. Ringling and Mr. North arrived and 
I was invited to participate. 

Mr. Kennedy. No agreement was arrived at that time at that 
meeting ? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that there were certain members 
signed up at that time ? 

Mr. Bright. I had no idea. 

Mr. Kennedy. In April of 1956, the Ringling; circus came to New 
York City? 

Mr. Bright. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And at that time, you and the Teamsters put up 
individual picket lines? 

Mr. Bright. Individual picket lines ? Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. The picketing continued for how long ? 

Mr. Bright. It started on a Sunday. That was the Teamsters 
started the picket on Sunday. We started to picket on Monday or 
Tuesday. Then a temporary restraining order was issued and we were 
taken off the line. Then Judge Stoyer said that we could go back on 
the line. Approximately, all in all, I would say about 37 or 38 days 
and nights, around the clock. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were the Teamsters supporting the picket line? 

Mr. Bright. They had their own picket line yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was during this period of time, however, that 
there was a dispute between Martin Lacey and Mr. Hoffa; is that 
right? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. So that the Teamsters, at least some parts of the 
Teamsters in New York, were not completely sympathetic toward the 
strike ? 

Mr. Bright. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then the next stop of the Ringling Bros, was in 
Boston; is that right; May 14-20, 1956? 

Mr. Bright. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did you decide that you were going to handle 
the situation in Boston? 

Mr. Bright. Well, sir, it seemed that after 38 days and nights of 
picketing, it did not seem to be too effective. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you speak louder? 

Mr. Bright. I say after 37 or 38 days and nights of picketing, it 
did not seem to be too effectual, and I finally went to my executive 
council, my national executive board, and told them I thought we 
would have a more serious problem in picketing in Boston, due to the 
fact that the arena was located on railroad property, and there prob- 
ably was not but one or two places that you could have a picket line 
established. So we decided that in view of the fact that it was our 



14452 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

thinking that Boston was a very fine labor town, and we did not want 
the children of those in labor who might be disposed to support us 
denied the opportunity of seeing a circus, we decided to put on our 
own circus. 

We allowed all the children, 12 years and under, in free, and 
charged the adults separately, a dollar admission. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the money to put on your circus? 

Mr. Bright. Well, at that time, AGVA did not have too much 
money in its treasury. I think we had about $45,000 or $50,000. We 
decided we could go for part of it, and we decided we would see if we 
could get some participating help. 

I called Mr. Harold Gibbons and told the proposition to him. I 
told him we might be more effectual this way with a rival circus, as 
you state, sir, rather than just picketing actually in a phantom way, 
because we could not get near the property. I asked if they could con- 
tribute. They wanted to know how much money it would take, and 
we said, "Well, we think it will be about $10,000. We will put up five. 
Will you put up five?" 

Mr. Gibbons said, "I will have to think it over. I will call you 
back." 

The next thing we knew was Mr. Gibbons did call back and said 
"yes," they would go along with giving the $5,000 for their share of 
the participation. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he had taken it up with anybody? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. So he advanced you $5,000 ? 

Mr. Bright. That is correct, with the understanding that all profits 
that were to be derived from the show were to be turned over to Mayor 
Heintz' fund in Boston. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you mean he is the mayor of Boston ? 

Mr. Bright. He was the mayor of Boston at the time. 

Mr. Kennedy. What kind of a fund ? 

Mr. Bright. A children's fresh air fund or something of that type. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you turn over ? 

Mr. Bright. We eventually turned over a thousand dollars. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did the $5,000 come from ? 

What organization of the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Bright. To be quite honest and frank with you, sir, I never saw 
the check itself. All I know is that the money was deposited in the 
Teamsters' name through their Teamster office in Boston. 

Mr. Kennedy. At a later time the Teamsters contributed another 
$3,000? 

Mr. Bright. I believe they did, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you people put up another three ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. So it cost each union $3,000 ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was the circus a success ? 

Mr. Bright. Well, that is a question of opinion. Financially it was 
not a success because we were letting children in for nothing. You 
could not entertain and make money on it. We thought it was a 
success from the amount of people that attended the circus that 
might have gone ordinarily to the Eingling show. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14453 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any difficulty in operating your 
circus? 

Mr. Bright. Not having gone in that type of business before I must 
confess I was beset with a lot of problems, particularly labor problems. 
I found out that I had to have more stage hands, electricians, car- 
penters, musicians. I have heard of the amount necessary but this 
threw me completely oil' balance. 

The Chairman. You had a close of your own medicine ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. ( "hairman, this is the $5,000 check stub. 

The Chairman. He probably could not recognize this letter. 

Maybe Mr. May can present the information. 

Mr. May, have you been sworn ? 

Mr. May. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence given 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. May. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF WALTER R. MAY 

The Chairman. State your name, your present occupation. 

Mr. May. Walter K. May, assistant counsel to this committee. 

The Chairman. How long have you been with the committee ? 

Mr. Mat. Since its inception. 

The Chairman. I hand you two documents, one apparently a receipt 
for a check or a stub of a check. The other is a letter dated May 7, 
1956, from Mr. H. J. Gibbons to Mr. Nicholas Morrissey. Will you 
examine these documents and state where you obtained them? 

Mr. May. Mr. Chairman, I obtained these from Mr. Nicholas Mor- 
rissey, general organizer for the Teamsters Union in Boston, Mass. 
He had received them from Mr. Gibbons, according to Mr. Morrissey. 

The Chairman. Did you receive the originals ? 

Mr. May. Yes, I did, sir. 

The Chairman. Those are photostatic copies ? 

Mr. May. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. They may be made exhibit No. 96. 

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 96" for refer- 
ence and will be found in the appendix on p. 14549.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I might point out, Mr. Chairman, that this being the 
Central Conference of Teamsters $5,000, the check therefore would be 
signed by Mr. Gibbons and Mr. Hoffa, and it is assigned to organiza- 
tional assistance for local union 447. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Bright, how many members did your union 
have among the performers of Singling Brothers circus when they 
appeared in New York City ? 

Mr. Bright. We had the majority, sir. 

Senator Curtis. How was that determined ? 

Mr. Bright. We had signed cards from our members in the circus 
which we presented to the New York State Labor Board and we asked 
for an election and certification. 

Senator Curtis. Was an election held ? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir; it was not. Mr. North refused to recognize 
the jurisdiction of the New York State Labor Board. He said he did 
not come under their jurisdiction, would not appear at the hearings. 



14454 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

In fact, 5 separate hearings were held on 5 continuous days and Mr. 
North refused to come to any one of them. 

Senator Curtis. How long had the people been members of your 
union? 

Mr. Bright. I believe, sir, some of them, a good majority had been 
members for 2 and 3 years. 

Senator Curtis. Dues-paying members ? 

Mr. Bright. Dues-paying members. 

Senator Curtis. Now this rival circus setup in Boston, was that for 
exactly the same days that Singling Brothers was scheduled to show 
there ? 

Mr. Bright. As a matter of fact, sir, we opened the day before 
they showed there. We opened on a Monday, I believe it was, and 
they opened on Tuesday. 

Senator Curtis. What was the effect upon their attendance, Ring- 
ling's attendance ? 

Mr. Bright. That is hard to ascertain; if you are asking me in 
dollars and cents I don't know. 

Senator Curtis. What about the crowd ? 

Mr. Bright. I would say during the week it was very light for us. 
Whether it was heavy for them I couldn't tell. But on weekends, 
Saturday and Sunday, we did well. 

Senator Curtis. Did you take any businses away from them? 

Mr. Bright. I would believe we did, sir. 

Senator Curtis. You did not send anybody around to look at their 
crowds ? 

Mr. Bright. No. Anybody who did that who was known or rec- 
ognized was not allowed to come in. The Ringling circus had their 
own crew on the lookout for our members. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Gibbons footed half of this bill. Did he 
have any members in Ringling Brothers? 

Mr. Bright. I believe Mr. Gibbons had stated, I don't know 
whether Mr. Gibbons had stated but someone representing the Team- 
sters Union had stated in an affidavit, which I think is in the posses- 
sion of Mr. Kennedy in a court proceeding in front of Judge Stuer, 
in New York, that they did not represent the members that par- 
ticular time. 

Mr. Kennedy. They stated they did not have anybody signed up ? 

Mr. Bright. To that effect; yes, sir. We have had contracts with 
Ringling Brothers for several years prior to 1955. 

Senator Curtis. On this partnership arrangement with the Team- 
sters, did the Teamsters approach your union or did you approach 
them? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir, I approached them. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't this a rather unusual way to attempt to organ- 
ize, that when you have been unsuccessful with a picket line, to set 
up a competitive business as you did in Boston ? 

Mr. Bright. Mr. Kennedy, at that particular moment we were 
signing and we were not thinking of competitive business. We were 
trying to get more of labor's sympathetic attention to the AGVA 
cause. In New York City because of the factional fights between 
the two Teamsters groups on one would give any cooperation or help 
to AGVA per se. In Boston it was a different situation. There was 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14455 

no fight up there so we, meaning AGVA, per se, were of the opinion 
we might be able to get a little more help. 

Possibly if this were brought home more clearer and to the atten- 
tion of Mr. North that he might be a little more susceptible of making 
arrangements with us which he had with us several years back. 

Mr. Kennedy. You intended after Boston to go on to various cities 
if you were successful ? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir. We didn't have the finances to do it. After 
having had a taste of our own problems in Boston we were out of 
business, period. 

Mr. Kennedy. If you had been a success in Boston you intended 
to follow him around ? 

Mr. Bright. No, sir; for the same reason I made concerning the 
Clyde Beatty Circus as a feller to find out the cost of operating a 
circus. Mr. Beatty told me if he were to bring his circus from some- 
where in Arizona to Philadelphia, which was the next port of call, 
that the railroad charge just for the trains would be some $27,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. You made a speech up in Boston ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir, and I can quote that speech almost verbatim. 
"We will follow them in every city, town, and hamlet." This is like 
going through the graveyard at night, whistling in the dark to keep 
your courage up. 

Mr. Kennedy. This was May 1956 ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You could keep your courage but you could not 
keep up your finances ? 

Mr. Bright. I could not. 

Mr. Kennedy. You stated : 

The picketing of the circus has cost Mr. North $845,000 to date and though 
he did a business of $2 million last year, it is doubtful if it will reach a total of 
$1 million this year. In Boston we shall use the same tactics, augmented by 
our own circus. 

Mr. Bright. I will answer that by saying I think I was a pretty 
good propagandist for myself. I was trying to keep my own morale 
and courage up at that point. 

Mr. Kennedy (reading) : 

We are in the circus business now and we are going to do our very best. We 
may be in it for good, playing today and date with North's circus. 

Mr. Bright. That was reported immediately to Mr. North. He 
said, "Good luck to them ; maybe we will sell them Ringling." 

Senator Curtis. You have more members now that are working in 
circuses than you did before this happened ? 

Mr. Bright. We certainly do. We have every circus in America 
signed up that has any value. 

Senator Curtis. Are there more people entertained before circuses ? 

Mr. Bright. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. The business has increased ? 

Mr. Bright. Business has increased. I might say, sir, if I may be 
permitted with pardonable pride, the pride of our negotiations of a 
contract with Mr. North, the salaries for the performers, particularly 
the chorus girls in 1940 and 1941 were $25 a week. 



14456 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Tn 1957, 1958, they are now a minimum of $55 a week and up. 

Senator Curtis. Are there more performers now engaged in circus 
work than there were a few years back? 

Mr. Bright. I haven't made a direct survey but as to the amount of 
circuses that we have signed with us it is; yes, sir; it seems to my 
knowledge there are more performers working. 

Senator Curtis. What I am trying to find out, have employment 
opportunities for performers in circuses increased or decreased in 
the recent past. 

Mr. Bright. Well, on one side of the ledger if you are saying per- 
formers of American origin increased, I would say they have slightly 
decreased because of the importation of the foreigners to the circus. 
While this may not be germane to what we are discussing I might 
add I have been consulted and asked the union's position on the im- 
portation of a Kussian circus for which Russian government is 
asking a guaranty of $20,000 a week and a minimum of 13 weeks. 

I am happy to say that our constitution prohibits the acceptance 
of any members of any group who belong to any subversive organiza- 
tion or Communist Party of any country. We are refusing this offer. 

The Chairman. What are you going to do about it if they come 
over here ? Are you going to picket them ? 

Mr. Bright. Russians? I think we would call out the Marines in 
that particular case. 

The Chairman. Do you think you have that power, too ? 

Mr. Bright. You never know. I don't think we as a union have the 
power but it seems to me there is a wide area there that should be 
explored. 

Mr. North, as a matter of fact, through his aid, Mr. Harry Dube, 
called Monday to say they were happy to hear we would not accept 
them as members because there was a strong feeling that this will 
actually cripple the circus business in America because at this par- 
ticular moment many of the places that they have had contracts with 
are calling them to say that they will not renew the contracts in 
anticipation of the circus coming over. They are going to play them 
instead of Ringling. 

The Chairman. I am not keenly interested in their coming. 

Mr. Bright. Thank you, sir. That makes two of us. 

Mr. Kennedy. I want to come back to your speech of May 9. 
Here is another statement : 

In Boston we have become entrepreneurs and the Brotherhood of Teamsters 
has agreed to put up money to help us win this fight and they are going to work 
with us, too. In my experience with the Teamsters I have found that their 
word is as good as the word of my mother. 

The Chairman. Which Teamsters were you talking about ? 

Mr. Bright. Mr. Kennedy, let me say this to you, sir. In 1956 we 
knew — I am saying AGVA per se — we knew of no problems with the 
Teamsters Union. Any word that had been given either to me or to 
our organization by any representative of the union up until that 
time — I am talking about the Teamsters Union — had been lived up to. 
There had been words at that particular time given from, shall we 
say people who were not in disfavor at the moment of organized labor 
who went back on their word 5 minutes after they gave it. 

Not only that, they were also setting me up as a clay pigeon on the 
premise : I was going to go over to Mr. North's apartment to receive 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14457 

a signed contract and then got a telephone call, saying, "Don't go 
because you are going to be served by a restraining order." 

The labor official told me it was all right to go and he was arranging 
for the signing of a contract. 

Mr. Kennedy (reading) : 

No one ever went into a competition like this before and we have some good 
backing. James R. Hoffa is in this thing up to his neck and Dave Beck has 

given us his personal blessing. 

It seems to me that where you try the picket line and were successful 
that this is a new system of organizing a business, setting up a rival 
competitive business. I could think that would lead to all sorts of 
ramifications in the future if any time a union were unsuccessful in 
organizing a particular company they then set up a rival company to 
compete with them as you did with the circus. 

As you were able to lose as you did here, some $18,000, that is the 
end of it. Where a union has a very large treasury running into the 
millions and millions and millions of dollars, of course, this could 
have all sorts of future possibilities. 

Mr. Bright. Mr. Kennedy, actors primarily are of a high tempera- 
ment, being a performer, myself, and we would not look away from 
any kind of enterprise at that particular moment that would not focus 
attention, that would stop from focusing attention upon AGYA, where 
very few people were interested in the situation at that time. 

We were amazed that when the circus was in rehearsal the night 
before up in Boston, that the Dave Garroway Show and other syndi- 
cated programs finally became interested to express our viewpoints 
and our story to the public. As far as going forward with the show 
we have learned through a bitter and sad experience that while money 
is everything, good intentions are not enough. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I don't think that answers the question. As you 
say, you were not in that for any profit, you could afford to lose the 
money. Therefore, you were in and taking business away from an- 
other competitor, which you were attempting to organize. 

You don't see anything that is questionable in that kind of 
activity ? 

Mr. Bright. Mr. Kennedy, we did not look upon it as a competitor, 
that is, looking upon Mr. North as a competitor, because our type of 
circus did not have either the type of people^ the animals, or the 
savoir faire or the approach that the Kinglmg Bros. have. We 
were just trying to convey to the people of Boston that we were 
asking them not to patronize the Singling Circus. 

Labor would understand but the children would not understand. 
We had to have an alternative for the children. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is different from what you said at the meeting 
of May 8, where you said you would set up a competitive business 
and follow him around from town to town. 

Mr. Bright. Yes ; that immediately got back to the 

Mr. Kennedy. You are not answering the question. 

Mr. Bright. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. At the time, that you were setting up a competitive 
business, and you were going to follow the Singling Bros. Circus 
from town to town, of course, if you had unlimited funds, you would 

21243— 59— pt. 38 21 



14458 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

ultimately drive Ringling Bros, out of business, there is no question 
about that. 

You would drive any competitor out of business if you were willing 
to go into something like this and willing to lose money. 

Mr. Bright. Well, the only thing I could say in answer to that 
is that it is highly questionable today, having looked at it in 1956, 
even having the funds, whether we would have been able to drive 
Mr. North out of the business. Mr. North is quite a showman him- 
self, and I am sure he would have found other means to put on his 
presentation. I think his own remarks in closing the circus said 
that he was not closing the circus because of labor troubles, but 
because the day of the tent was over. 

The Chairman. Cause what ? 

Mr. Bright. The day of the tent show was over. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further? 

Mr. Kennedy. Here is this item, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Would you recognize your speech at Boston ? 

Mr. Bright. If I saw it, sir, I surely would. 

The Chatrman. You may examine the document the Chair presents 
and state if you identify it. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Bright. I would identify this, sir, as extracts of our branch 
membership minutes at Boston. 

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 97. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 97" for 
reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chaerman. Thank you very much. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. O. C. Buck. 

The Chairman. Mr. Buck, come forward. 

Be sworn, please. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall 
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Buck. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF OSCAR C. BUCK 

The CHAntMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please, sir. 

Mr. Buck. Oscar C. Buck, 66 Point View Drive, Troy, N. Y. I 
operate the O. C. Buck Expositions, a traveling carnival. 

The Chairman. Thank you, sir. 

You waive counsel, do you ? 

Mr. Buck. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Buck, how many employees do you have ? 

Mr. Buck. On my payroll I have in the neighborhood of 50 or 55 
employees. 

Mr. Kennedy. And where does your carnival operate? 

Mr. Buck. On the eastern seaboard. Most of my operations are 
in New York State and New England, and in the fall of the year I go 
south as far as South Carolina. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you approached in May of 1956 about signing 
a contract? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14459 

Mr. Buck. I was introduced to Mr. Karsli in the early part of May 
1956 by Charles Torch, of Albany, N. Y., a lawyer, whom I knew as 
a lawyer there. 

Mr. Karsh spoke to me about 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Harry Karsh ? 

Mr. Buck. Harry Karsh. He spoke to me about organizing the 
show. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was he representing at the time ? 

Mr. Buck. He was representing the Carnival and Allied Workers 
Local 447. 

Mr. Kennedy. Of the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Buck. Of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that he wanted you to sign a contract ? 
Is that right? 

Mr. Buck. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he represented any of the employees? 

Mr. Buck. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask him whether he represented any of the 
employees ? 

Mr. Buck. No, he did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask him ? Was there any conversation about 
representing any of the employees? Did he represent any of the 
employees ? 

Mr. Buck. No, he did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. How do you know that ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, because I know that he had not spoke to anybody 
but me on the show. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you he wanted you to sign a contract ? 

Mr. Buck. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. And did you pay $4 a month for dues ? 

Mr. Buck. He said that the dues would be $4 per man, and the 
welfare out of the office to be paid by the office would be $8. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say that he was going to organize all the 
carnivals ? 

Mr. Buck. He said that was his intention, organizing all the 
carnivals. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was he going to arrange it so that one carnival 
could not jump the spot of another carnival ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, I asked him what benefit it was to the show to 
have the men organized, and he told me that he was going to give the 
organized shows protection as far as opening cities that were closed 
to shows, and also protect the organized shows at fairs, as far as getting 
the contracts were concerned. 

Mr. Kennedy. Not having a rival show come in and take the spot ? 

Mr. Buck. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. He returned 7 or 8 times, did he ? 

Mr. Buck. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. During the 

Mr. Buck. During the season between May and the 1st of August. 

Mr. Kennedy. You refused to sign a contract with him ? 

Mr. Buck. Yes. He was also trying to organize the Coleman 
Brothers' Show at the time. 

After his first visit to me, this Charles Tosh, who was with him 
at the time of his first visit, told me during the course of the con versa- 



]44()0 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

tion, that he had organized the Cetlin-Wilson and the World of 
Mirth Show and also the Strates Shows. 

I knew they had organized, but in what union I did not know. 
After he had left me on his first visit, I got in touch with these show 
owners, and they told me that they were in the Retail Clerks Union. 
I asked them who represented them, and it was a Pfeifer out of New 
York, whom they sent their dues to. I asked them how much they 
were paying, and they told me they were paying, I believe, if my 
memory serves me — the men were paying, I think, $2.70 a man and the 
office was paying, I believe, $3.90 for welfare. 

On the next visit that Mr. Karsh made to me, I brought that point 
up. I could not understand with the same union why he could ask 
for $4 from me and this other union was only getting $2.70 from the 
men. He told me that after the first of the year it would all be the 
same, all one union. So after we went along for several weeks 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he could make it difficult for you? 

Mr. Buck. Well, he said there was different ways of making me 
join the union, but he did not mention what they were. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he mention anything about the trouble he caused 
Ringling Brothers? 

Mr. Buck. Well, he mentioned the fact of the trouble that the 
Cetlin-Wilson Show T had had the year previous, I believe, and also 
that the Ringling Show could not make any matinees, and they finally 
had to go to the barn. That was the latter part of the season. 

Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean go to the barn ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, they had to put the show away, due to the fact 
that they could not make their dates on time. They lost several 
matinees. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate that that was because of his activi- 
ties? 

Mr. Buck. Well, he intimated that the union had something to do 
with it, his union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that what you understood to be the fact ? 

Mr. Buck. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that Ringling Brothers stopped 
their road shows because of this ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, I don't know for what reason, but I know they 
were having trouble with the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ultimately join the union ? 

Mr. Buck. The last week in July, Mr. Harry Karsh paid a visit 
to me, and he was working me against another show, this Coleman 
Show. When he came up on 2 or 3 occasions, he told me that he was 
going to see Coleman the following week and he was ready to sign. 
I also asked him who he had signed up, and he mentioned two shows 
in the Middle West that I had never heard of. 

So I said "Well, I will tell you what I will do." I said, "I can't meet 
you next week, because I am too far from the Coleman Show, but the 
following week I will be in Elmira, and the Coleman Show will be in 
Grafton, N. Y.," which is about 75 miles apart. "I will meet you there 
and I will meet you with Coleman at the time." Which I did. I went 
over to Grafton and spent 2 or 3 hours with Mr. Karsh. I mentioned 
the fact that it was toward the end of the season, and told him to forget 
about it for this season, until he had the thing organized as one union, 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14461 

or even better than that I suggested that he come to Chicago the last 
of November, at which time all shows have a convention. 

Mr. Kennedy. I just want to move it along a little bit. You did 
sign up with him, then ? 

Mr. Buck. Yes, I signed up the following day. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did the employees have any choice about joining the 
union at that time? 

Mr. Buck. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were just told that they were signed up; is 
that right ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, after he signed up the Coleman Show on Wednes- 
day, I believe it was, he came over to visit with me in Elmira on Thurs- 
day. I signed the contract and I called each of my employees in indi- 
vidually, and he signed them up. 

Mr. Kennedy. But the employees had no choice about signing up ? 

Mr. Buck. No. 

The Chairman. Did you agree to discharge them if they did not 
sign up and pay their dues ? 

Mr. Buck. No. 

The Chairman. Is that in your contract ? 

Mr. Buck. That I cannot say. I don't recall reading that in the 
contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever read the contract ? 

Mr. Buck. Vaguely. 

Mr. Kennedy. You never read it, did you ? 

Mr. Buck. No, I did not read it in its entirety. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever ask you about any provision in the con- 
tract, ever speak to you about it ? 

Mr. Buck. No. 

Mr. Kennedy. You paid him the money ? 

Mr. Buck. I paid him the money. I gave him a check for the men 
and also a check for the welfare. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you heard from Mr. Karsh since then ? 

Mr. Buck. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the last contact you had with him ? 

Mr. Buck. That was the last contact I had. 

Mr. Kennedy. He took the money and left ? 

Mr. Buck. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you give him ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, when I was discussing the signing of the contract, 
he wanted to organize the entire show, concessionaires, and show peo- 
ple who are independent operators, and I told him I would not consent 
to the concessionaires or the show people for the simple reason that if 
I went to them and said "You have to join the union," they would say 
"Well, I will join some other show that isn't unionized." 

So I could not afford to lose concessions due to the fact of joining the 
union. I told him I would give him those on my payroll. We also 
have a tremendous turnover of help from week to week. I asked him 
how long a man would have to be employed before he would have to 
join the union, and he said he would have to be at least 2 weeks on the 
payroll before he was eligible to join the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further ? 



14462 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. How many months did you continue to pay for 
these people ? 

Mr. Buck. I paid 2 months. 

Senator Curtis. Did you carry that expense yourself or did you 
deduct it from the employees ? 

Mr. Buck. Well, I raised their salary enough to go and pay their 
union dues. 

Senator Curtis. But you so handled it so your books showed a 
checkoff ? 

Mr. Buck. That is right. 

Senator Curtis. But you gave them a raise so that you would not 
have to take any loss ? 

Mr. Buck. They would not take any loss on their salaries. 

Senator Curtis. Did any of them ever get any benefits from the 
pension and welfare fund ? 

Mr. Buck. My secretary took sick 2 weeks after I joined the union 
and he was confined to the hospital for 9 days. He had a heart attack. 
Then he came out and went up home to recuperate for a week or 10 
days, which the doctor advised him. He got another attack up in 
Massachusetts. He entered the hospital up there and died. I wrote 
the office at St. Louis on two occasions and received no reply. So the 
following month, when I sent in the dues and the welfare money 
for that second month, I registered the letter and also wrote a lengthy 
letter mentioning the fact of the two letters I had sent previously I 
heard nothing from them about. I did finally get an application for 
the deceased beneficiary to fill out which I forwarded on to my secre- 
tary's sister. Only recently I found out that they did get the $1,000 
death benefit. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Thank you. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Magador Cristiani. 

The Chairman. Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence 
you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MAGADOR E. CRISTIANI, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, ROGER ROBB 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please, sir. 

Mr. Cristiani. My name is Magador E. Cristiani. I live at 2470 
Main Street, Sarasota, Fla. 

The Chairman. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Cristiani. At the present, I am the general agent of Cristiani 
Bros. Circus. 

The Chairman. Do you have counsel ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes, I do. 

The Chairman. Counsel, identify yourself, please. 

Mr. Robb. Yes, sir. My name is Roger Robb. My address is the 
Tower Building, Washington, D. C. 

The Chairman. Thank you. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14463 

All right, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is your first name ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Magador. 

Mr. Kennedy. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Cristiani. M-a-g-a-d-o-r. 

Mr. Kennedy. And your family has been in the circus business for 
how long ? 

Mr. Cristiani. On my father's side, since 1840. 

Mr. Kennedy. What country ? 

Mr. Cristiani. All over Europe and here since 1934. 

Mr. Kennedy. And your mother also ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Also my mother, yes, and on my mother's side it 
doesn't go back quite that far. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have a fairly large family ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I consider it quite large. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many do you have ? 

Mr. Cristiani. 10 children. 

Mr. Kennedy. And do you and the children run and operate the 
circus ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes, including my father and all the boys. There 
are six brothers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Six brothers and your father operate this circus ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Right. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many employees do you have ? 

Mr. Cristiani. At the moment I would say — are you speaking of 
performers included and all ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Cristiani. I would say approximately between 200 and 250. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are you one of the largest in the United States ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Our show is considered the largest in America today. 

Mr. Kennedy. And where do you operate ? 

Mr. Cristiani. We operate all through the Eastern States. This 
year we have covered quite a bit of the Middle West. Occasionally 
we go up to Canada, and occasionally we go West. 

Mr. Kennedy. In the spring of 1956 were you approached by Mr. 
Harry Karsh? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes, we were. 

Mr. Kennedy. For what purpose, at that time ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Negotiating a contract with the Teamsters Union. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had he talked to any of your employees at that 
time? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, first he aproached the management and in- 
troduced himself. He had an associate with him by the name of 
Kane. I don't know his first name, I knew this fellow. He had been 
an employee previously with the Ringling Bros. Circus. I believe 
I met him first in, I believe it was, in Syracuse, N. Y. Then he went 
into some form of discussion with one of my brothers, Brother Lucio. 
I don't quite recall. There were a couple of other brothers present. 
There was David and possibly my younger brother Pete. 

I don't know whether it was the first discussion they had or the sec- 
ond. It was sort of a heated argument, and due to that discussion 
which I heard about the following day, my brother, Lucio, says "I 
am a little bit too hot tempered, so if you feel that you can negotiate 



14464 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

this more diplomatically, perhaps you better talk to Mr. Karsh your- 
self," and that is when I basically took over the negotiation. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what Karsh had said to your brother 
that brought about the disagreement ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, it seems to me that there was a few things 
mentioned about some form of pressure. As I say, I don't know, and 
I am not in a position to mention that. At that point, I think that 
my brother became irritated and refused to discuss it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Karsh indicate to you the difficulties that 
he had been able to cause for the Ringling Bros. ? 

Mr. Cristiani. No, he did not approach me that way. He imme- 
diately went and brought forth the benefits that the union may have 
as far as the employees were concerned. He did not in any words 
ever indicate to me any form of threats in my discussion with him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any discussion about the Ringling Bros, 
at all? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, I believe that I asked that, myself. I asked 
Mr. Karsh, I said "We hear a lot of stories about the Ringlings," and 
he mentioned the fact of the picketing, and some of the local team- 
sters that sort of stopped some of the show trucks from either going 
through or made it very difficult for them to go through. But he 
never indicated to me that the union, or, rather, Mr. Harry Karsh, 
himself had any direct connection with them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say the damage that had been caused to 
Ringling Bros, by this ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I believe he mentioned there was some damage 
caused to the tractors. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say how much it amounted to ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I believe there was a mention of several thousand 
dollars. 

Mr. Kennedy. A quarter of a million dollars ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Something like that, 

Mr. Kennedy. That is several-several thousands of dollars. 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes, sir ; it is. 

Mr. Kennedy. You signed the contract ? 

Mr. Cristiani. No. My brother signed the contract. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, your circus signed the contract? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had the employees indicated that they wanted to 
join the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, in my discussion, and I believe my brother 
said this to me, if the employees wanted to go along with it, that we 
would go ahead and sign it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had the employees ever indicated that they wanted 
to sign with the union ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, in my discussions with a good portion of 
them, and I spoke to the steady employees, they made mention to me 
that if the show was going along, that they would go along with the 
show. 

Mr. Kennedy. They had not come to you and petitioned to join the 
Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Cristiani. No, they did not do that. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was no election held to determine whether 
they wanted to join the union? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14465 

Mr. Cristiani. No, there was no formal election, I would say, al- 
though Mr. Karsh and this fellow by the name of Kane did talk 
to several of the employees in reference to the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. But, Mr. Cristiani, there was no election held ? 

Mr. Cristiani. No, there wasn't. 

Mr. Kennedy. The contract was signed with the Teamsters Union, 
and the employees were not consulted? 

Mr. Cristiani. No, that is true. 

Mr. Kennedy. Under the contract they either had to join the union 
within 30 days, or they had to leave, isn?t that correct? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, of course, I made mention, if I recall correctly, 
to Mr. Karsh, and possibly Mr. Kane was present at the time, of 
"supposing that the employees do not want to join ? We are certainly 
not going to force anything." 

They said that if they would not join, then we just forget about 
the contract and possibly negotiate later on. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many employees did you pay for ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I think we paid to a minimum of 25. As I stated 
earlier in your office, at that time I assumed that the Teamsters was 
strictly for transportation, such as truckdrivers. Of course, our show 
at the moment is on trucks, and it was in 1956. So I made mention 
to Mr. Karsh that we only had at the time approximately 32 or 30 or 32 
show-owned vehicles, and that I did not see where it was necessary 
for more than 32 of the employees to belong. 

(Members of the select committee present at this point in the pro- 
ceedings: Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. You arrived at a figure of about 25 ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Twenty-five. 

Mr. Kennedy. You selected 25? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then when they would leave your employment you 
would fill it in with another name? 

Mr. Cristiani. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever pay any initiation fees on this ? 

Mr. Cristiani. No. When I spoke to you in your office earlier this 
morning I could not quite recollect, but now that I remember, I don't 
think there was any initiation fee involved. 

Mr. Kennedy. You informed the employees that they were members 
of the Teamsters Union? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. In each case when you put somebody new in you 
would tell them they were members of the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You would send in the money for the 25 each periodi- 
cally ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes, sir, we assumed the payments ourselves. I 
remember one particular fellow that took care of our horses. He said 
he would not pay anything, that he would not pay 25 cents to any 
union. So I believe we paid it for him right along. 

Mr. Kennedy. How did Mr. Karsh refer to the employees ? 

Mr. Cristiani. He mentioned routabouts many times. A couple 
of times he mentioned the word "winos." 

Mr. Kennedy. The employees of the circus ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes. 



14466 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LAEOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. These were the people he pretended to represent ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes. He referred to some of them that way. The 
exact expression was, I think, "Some of these winos." 

Mr. Kennedy. Of course, the circus is extremely vulnerable, is it 
not, to pressure ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I would say that it is possibly the most vulnerable 
form of business. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that why you signed the contract ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I wouldn't say that that was the deciding factor. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was that an important factor ? 

Mr. Cristiani. At the time I don't know whether it was or not. 
We certainly thought about it. 

Mr. Kennedy. There wasn't any other reason. The employees had 
not demanded that they join. There would not be any reason for you 
to be paying this money out particularly ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I would say this : My brother, Lucio, was opposed 
to it, although we do believe in labor management. We were at one 
time, and still are, members of AGVA. 

Mr. Kennedy. I am not questioning that, but certainly it was an 
important factor in your signing the contract. 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, sometimes your subconscious mind makes 
you think, and we had heard the stories about Kingling. I think we 
thought about that, that those things could happen. 

Mr. Kennedy. I won't press it. 

The Chairman. How many employees, aside from performers, did 
you have ? 

Mr. Cristiani. At the time, I would say that we were sort of short 
of help. I would say approximately 125, maybe 130. 

The Chairman. That is aside from performers ? 

Mr. Cristiani. That's correct. 

The Chairman. So they finally settled for you to sign up 25 people ? 

Mr. Cristiani. That's correct. 

The Chairman. During that conversation was there any suggestion 
about the health of your animals, how to keep them healthy ? 

Mr. Cristiani. I can't say that there was ever anything like that 
suggested by Mr. Karsh. 

The Chairman. Or about how they may become unhealthy ? 

Mr. Cristiani. No. If they did mention anything like this they 
did it indirectly. 

The Chairman. Did they do it indirectly ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, of course, they spoke to the men. 

The Chairman. Was there any threat or implied threat, of injury 
or harm to your animals? 

Mr. Cristiani. No. 

The Chairman. None ? 

Mr. Cristiani. None. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had you heard discussions about what could happen 
to the animals, Mr. Cristiani ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Yes, I had. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was also a factor that you took into consid- 
eration ? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, of course 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14467 

Mr. Kennedy. About animals being poisoned? 

Mr. Cristiani. Well, we had heard these things. Wouldn't you 
take it under consideration if you were me? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. I am not critical at all. 

That is all. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Stand aside. 

The committee will take a 5-minute recess. 

(Thereupon, a brief recess was taken.) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have finished the background of 
Mr. Karsh's activities. Now we go into the election that was held in 
January 1958, and the delegates from Mr. Karsh's local, local 447, 
seven delegates in all were the delegates which won the election for 
Mr. Gibbons out in St. Louis. 

I would like to call as the witnesses two of the officers of that local, 
Mr. Vernon Francis Korhn, and Mr. Harold Leroy Brocies, who were 
delegates to the election and participated. 

The Chairman. Mr. Korhn and Mr. Brocies. 

Let the two witnesses sit in the chairs in front of the mikes. 

Will you be sworn, please. 

Do you, and each of you, solemnly swear that the evidence you shall 
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Brocies. I do. 

Mr. Korhn. I do. 

The Chairman. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD L. BROCIES AND VERNON E. KORHN, 
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, TED A. BOLINGER 

The Chairman. Beginning on my left, will you state your name, 
your place of residence, and your business or occupation. 

Mr. Brocies. My name is Harold Brocies, 1407 Yukon Street, 
Tampa, Fla., employee of Royal American Shows. 

Mr. Korhn. My name is Vernon F. Korhn, 2609 Fountain Boule- 
vard, Tampa, Fla. 

The Chairman. Thank you. What is your business ? 

Mr. Korhn. I am a showman, assistant to the secretary of the Royal 
American Shows. 

The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record, 
please, sir. 

Mr. Bolinger. Ted A. Bolinger, attorney, 408 Olive Street, St. 
Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your name is Mr. Korhn, K-o-r-h-n ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. For the past 6 years you have been employed as 
assistant to the secretary-treasurer of the Royal American Shows ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is a traveling carnival with winter headquarters 
at Tampa, Fla. ? 

Mr. Korhn. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have also been secretary of the Greater Tampa 
Showmen's Association ? 



14468 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Which is an association made up of various show 
people in the Tampa area ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1953, Mr. Harry Karsh, who was then an organizer 
for the Jewelry Workers Union, tried to organize the employees of 
your show ; is that right ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. That union was done away with by the action of the 
A. F.ofL.? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your group, in the meantime, formed an independ- 
ent union? 

Mr. Korhn. That was under Mr. Brocies. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Brocies, you formed an independent union? 

Mr. Brocies. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your independent union existed from 1953 to 1955 ; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Brocies. After that even. We kept it as a club even after we 
joined the Teamsters. 

The Chairman. Will you adjust your mike. 

Mr. Brocies. We kept it going as a club up until November of last 
year. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now Karsh began to try to organize the employees 
again in 1955? 

Mr. Brocies. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. You attempted to get a petition going before the 
National Labor Relations Board in Atlanta, Ga. ? 

Mr. Brocies. I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Against this organization of the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Brocies. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was unsuccessful, they refused to take juris- 
diction ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Brocies. That's correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. So then you all signed up with the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Brocies. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. A contract was signed by Mr. Sedlmayr with the 
Teamsters Union ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Brocies. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. The dues were paid, and welfare ? 

Mr. Brocies. Right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Korhn, you were the one responsible for col- 
lecting the dues for management ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are actually part of management, are you not ? 

Mr. Korhn. No. I can't fire anybody or anything like that. I 
am considered in a managerial position, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. One of your responsibilities is to send the dues into 
the Teamsters? 

Mr. Korhn. That's right, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who were the officers of the union up until January 
1958? 

Mr. Korhn. I think it was only Mr. Karsh, as far as I know. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14469 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there other officers then appointed in January 
1958 or selected in January 1958 ? 

Mr. Koriin. I was the one that was selected to be the president. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who selected you ? 

Mr. Koriin. Mr. Karsh called me at the club, at the Showmen's 
Club, and told me I had been appointed the president, and asked me 
to get hold of at least five good men that knew show business to be 
on the advisory board, to serve as the officers of the union. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did he have this conversation with you. 

Mr. Koriin. I think it was either last part of December or the first 
week in January. I don't know the exact time. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you agree to take over ? 

Mr. Korhn. I called the men together first. I got hold of Harold 
and Tom Adams, old employees of the show, and all of them ranging 
from 10 to 15 years. I talked to them with the idea in mind that if 
we were to function as a local it would be better to have people asso- 
ciated in the show business holding those offices rather than to have 
somebody that was not in show business, I pointed out, maybe out of 
St. Louis, Chicago, New York, elsewhere. 

So we decided it would be the best thing for the industry if we did 
accept it. In case we did function we would have some advice to give 
the union people to control it, because our industry could be wrecked 
in a very short time. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you agreed to take the position as president ? 

Mr. Korhn. I agreed to take it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get five other people ? 

Mr. Korhn. I got the five boys. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whom did you get ? 

Mr. Korhn. Tom Adams. 

Mr. Kennedy. Tom Adams was made vice president ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who was made recording secretary ? 

Mr. Korhn. Harold. 

Mr. Kennedy. Harold Brocies ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. And Robert Garner. 

Mr. Kennedy. Robert Garner ? 

Mr. Korhn. Robert Garner and Chet Fowler. 

Mr. Kennedy. Chester Fowler and George Hercha. So you were 
the six officers ; is that right ? 

Mr. Korhn. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Together with Mr. Karsh you made it seven ? 

Mr. Korhn. That's right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Karsh come down to Tampa, Fla., himself ? 

Mr. Korhn. He did. He came down. Before we went to St. Louis 
he came down and talked to the boys and asked them if they would 
accept it and told them what it meant to them, that we would come out 
of the trusteeship and function as a local, and that we were to go to 
St. Louis to be properly seated on the Central Conference of Teamsters 
Union. 

Mr. Kennedy. All the men that you selected for these positions were 
foremen ; is that right ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes ; they were all foremen. 

(At this point the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 



14470 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Adams is the foreman of the electrical department? 

Mr. Korhn. That is right. He belongs to the electrical union, too. 

Mr. Kennedy. Brocies is the kiddycar foreman ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Hercha is the scrambler foreman ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is a scrambler ? 

Mr. Korhn. It is a new ride brought out last year. 

Mr. Kennedy. Garner is the scooter foreman ? 

Mr. Korhn. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Fowler is the foreman of the twister? 

Mr. Korhn. The twister. They are all rides. 

Mr. Kennedy. Hercha is the scrambler ? 

The Chairman. You have two scrambler foremen ? 

Mr. Korhn. No; here Hercha is on the scrambler, and Fowler is 
the twister, and Garner is the scooter. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were all management people; is that right? 

Mr. Brocies. Yes and no. We are foremen over a group of men, 
but we do not have the final word in any hiring or firing. That is 
strictly done by the office. 

Mr. Kennedy. You represent management, however? 

Mr. Brocies. That is right. 

Mr. Korhn. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you then make a trip to St. Louis ? 

Mr. Korhn. We made a trip to St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who paid for the trip to St. Louis? 

Mr. Korhn. The union paid it; the local, I imagine, our local. 
Anyway we went to St. Louis. Mr. Karsh bought the tickets for 
those that went on the train. There were three of us went on the 
train and four of them went by car. 

Mr. Kennedy. And when did you go to St. Louis ? 

Mr. Korhn. I don't know the exact date. But we left Sunday in 
Tampa. It was right ahead of the election, whatever the election 
date was. We got in there on Monday night, and the election was 
held on — Wednesday, wasn't it ? On Wednesday. I don't know the 
date of it. It was in January — the 23d or the 24th. 

Mr. Kennedy. The election was January 15. 

Mr. Korhn. The 15th? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Korhn. We left January about the 11th or 12th, then. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Karsh made those arrangements ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long did you stay in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Korhn. We got in there on Monday night, about 8 o'clock. 
We stayed until the election was over and then we left the next day. 

Mr. Kennedy. You voted in the election ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Aiid you all voted for Mr. Gibbons ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you took the trip back to Tampa ? 

Mr. Korhn. Back to Tampa. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you receive any money for going up ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14471 

Mr. Korhn. We received $150 apiece loss of time. I lost a week 
apiece at the club, and the boys were all working at the winter 
quarters. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who gave you that money ? 

Mr. Korhn. They brought us out checks for that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did that ? 

Mr. Korhn. Mr. Karsh delivered it to us. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who paid your hotel bill out there ? 

Mr. Koriin. That was paid by the local, I imagine, the union. I 
don't know. I went in and signed in, and checked into the hotel, 
but it was all taken care of by the local in St. Louis. 

I couldn't say which one or who. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had you ever examined the books, or records, or 
known anything about the operation of the union from that point 
of view? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you looked at the books and records since the 
time you were elected president? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you done anything about running or operat- 
ing the union ? 

Mr. Korhn. No. We can't — you see, we could not call a meeting 
or have any right now because all the shows are in operation. To 
call a meeting, we would have to bring in a show from there like 
the Cristiani Brothers, they are in one part of the country and we are 
in another. 

So to have any meetings at all would be strictly impossible. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know anything about the joint council up 
in St. Louis? 

Mr. Korhn. Not a thing. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had you ever heard of the joint council ? 

Mr. Korhn. I had never heard of it. It was all new to me. 

The Chairman. You don't have to call a meeting of all the mem- 
bers to look over the books and see everything is all right. 

Mr. Korhn. No, I know that. But I am working at something else 
besides the union and I don't have the time to go out there. 

Senator Curtis. Where is the headquarters for this local ? 

Mr. Korhn. St. Louis, sir. 

Senator Curtis. The local of which you are the president ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

Senator Curtis. But all the officers of that are connected with the 
same circus ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. We all live in Tampa. 

Senator Curtis. You all live in Tampa. What is the name of the 
local? 

Mr. Korhn. The Carnival and Allied Workers Local 447. 

Senator Curtis. Do they have any members in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Korhn. That I could not tell you, sir. All I know is the mem- 
bers from which I collect the dues. 

Senator Curtis. Do they have any office or headquarters in St. Louis 
that you know of ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir ; 1631 South Kingshighway, at the labor build- 
ing, the Labor Temple. 



14472 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. The labor building ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know whether you have any employees 
there ? 

Mr. Korhn. That I could not tell you, no, sir. I send in the reports 
to the Carnival and Allied Workers Local 447, and I send in the health 
and welfare money to Carnival and Allied Workers Local 447 health 
and welfare fund, two checks every month. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you have an office in that building ? 

Mr. Korhn. I imagine they do. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever been in the building ? 

Mr. Korhn. I was through it when we went to St. Louis, yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever go through any office that belonged 
to you ? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir, because we were just being organized, I guess. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you were president, have you ever been in an 
office that belonged to your union ? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Have you ? 

Mr. Brocies. No, I have not. 

The Chairman. If you were to start to find your office tomorrow, 
would you have to inquire where it is ? 

Mr. Korhn. I sure would. 

Senator Curtis. How did you happen to vote for Gibbons ? 

Mr. Brocies. That would be easy. If you had been at the meeting, 
that would not have been hard to tell. 

Senator Curtis. Tell us about it. 

Mr. Korhn. Tell them Harold. 

Mr. Brocies. Well, at least Gibbons and Mr. Karsh and the rest of 
them treated us like white men. We had several slurs, and they acted 
like we was a bunch of scum or something when we walked in, the 
opposition did. There wasn't but one way we could vote, even if 
we had never seen Mr. Gibbons or anybody else before. 

Mr. Kennedy. I guess nobody else had known you were coining, did 
they? 

Mr. Brocies. They did. They knew we were coming. 

Mr. Kennedy. Wlien had they found that out ? 

Mr. Brocies. I don't know. But they knew we were there. 

Mr. Kennedy. I know they knew you were there, but they didn't 
know you were going to come. 

Mr. Brocies. That I don't know. But they knewwe were there. 

Mr. Kennedy. Didn't they appear quite surprised when you showed 



up 



Mr. Brocies. No. 

Mr. Korhn. I couldn't tell you about that, but I know we did not 
hide out or anything. 

Mr. Kennedy. I understand that, once you got there. 

Mr. Korhn. The opposition was fighting to keep us from being 
recognized, and I thought after paying due for 3 years that we were 
entitled to some recognition. So we voted for the man that told us 
we were going to get recognition. 

The Chairman. That was the first recognition you had gotten? 

Mr. Korhn. That was the first recognition we had gotten. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14473 

The Chairman. When they needed your votes. 

Mr. Korhn. Well, I don't know about that. 

The Chairman. You know that is what you went there for. 

Mr. Korhn. No, I wouldn't say that. 

The Chairman. What did you go there for ? 

Mr. Korhn. To organize the union. 

The Chairman. You were already organized. 

Mr. Korhn. No, we was not. 

The Chairman. You were president. 

Mr. Korhn. No, I wasn't, until we got to St. Louis. 

The Chairman. You went there to be president ? 

Mr. Korhn. No, I did not. 

The Chairman. What did you go there for ? 

Mr. Brocies. Well, we spent about 3 days 

The Chairman. Wait a moment. 

Mr. Korhn. I went there to become president, yes, for the simple 
reason of protecting the show industry. 

The Chairman. Yes. Now what protection have you given them ? 
You have not looked at the books; you don't know anything about 
it, do you ? 

Mr. Korhn. That is right, 

The Chairman. You have not given it a lot of protection, have you ? 

Mr. Korhn. We didn't get it. 

Mr. Kennedy. You could have been president just as well if you 
had stayed down in Florida % 

Mr. Korhn. Well, I don't know about that. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was not necessary — the purpose in going to St. 
Louis was in order to vote in the election. 

Mr. Korhn. Yes ; that was the purpose of going to St. Louis. 

The Chairman. That is what I asked you just a moment ago? 

Mr. Kennedy. Had you actually, Mr. Korhn, been paying your 
dues every month for 3 years ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes; we had been paying dues. It was for the first 
3 years of the contract. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you pay your dues every month ? 

Mr. Korhn. For the 6 months of the year, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, there are 12 months in the year. 

Mr. Korhn. We only pay for 6. 

Mr. Kennedy. You only pay for dues 6 months of the year? 

Mr. Korhn. We pay dues for 6 months of the year, while we are in 
operation. 

Mr. Kennedy. So actually you had not been paying dues for a 
period of 3 years. You had been paying your dues for 6 months 
out of every year for a period of 3 years ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. The Teamster constitution says in order to partic- 
ipate in an election you have to be a member in good standing, which 
means that you have to be paying your dues for over a period of 2 
years. You had not been paying your dues. You had not paid 
your dues every month for 2 years. 

Mr. Korhn. No, we had not. 

21243—59— pt. 38 22 



14474 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. And, as a matter of fact, some of the officers that 
participated in this election had withdrawal cards during that period 
of time. Were you aware of that? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. None of the representatives of local 447 who partic- 
ipated in that election had, in fact, paid their dues up over a period 
of 2 years. You know that, do you not ? 

Mr. Koriin. I know we only paid for 6 months. 

Mr. Kennedy. For instance, you yourself, Mr. Korhn, took a with- 
drawal card, according to the records, on October 31, 1955, and did not 
come back into the union until May of 1956. 

Mr. Korhn. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you had not been a member in good standing for 
2 years. 

Mr. Korhn. Well, our understanding that we have is that we pay 
12 months' dues in the 6 months, the same as we pay $48 a year insur- 
ance in the 6 months, which pays the policy for the year. You see, our 
health and welfare policy that we get is covered for a year, from May 
1 to May 1. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then why was a withdrawal card given to you, if 
you paid your dues up ? 

Mr. Korhn. I don*t know. I did not get any withdrawal card. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Brocies also got a withdrawal card on October 
31, 1955, and did not come back into the union until May of 1956, and 
the dues were not twice the regular dues. The dues were $4 a month. 
That is how much dues you were paying. That was just for 6 months. 
That is all you had to pay your dues for. You understood that. 

You both took withdrawal cards. Neither one of you were members 
of the union, according to this record, until May of 1956. 

Mr. Brocies. This is the first I knew of it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Korhn ? 

Mr. Korhn. That is the first I knew that I had a withdrawal card. 

Mr. Kennedy. I will show you your record. 

The Chairman. Do you want to see your record about it ? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Do you understand why the record reflects that ? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Who is your union boss ? You don't run the union, 
somebody else runs it. Who runs it ? 

Mr. Korhn. Harry Karsh, as far as I know. 

The Chairman. That is what I thought. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, for instance, from November of 1956 you did 
not pay any dues from November 1956 until June of 1957, according 
to your own records. 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. And the records also show that you paid your dues " 
in November of 1957 and did not pay again until March of 1958. 

Mr. Korhn. That is about right. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14475 

Mr. Kennedy. So you were not even up to date in your own dues at 
the time you voted in the election. 

Mr. Koriin. Well, when I was not on the road 

Mr. Kennedy. I am not saying there was not a question with that. 
I am sure it was an arrangement made in your union, and Mr. Harry 
Karsh made this arrangement. I am not questioning that at all. But 
because of this, according to the constitution, you could not partici- 
pate in the election, and yet your votes were counted. That is the only 
question I am raising. 

(Members of the select committee present at this point in the pro- 
ceedings : Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. How long had you been in the union hall before 
you voted ? 

Mr. Koriin. We visited there in the afternoon. Then that night 
we went in about a half hour, we sat in there while they were having 
discussion whether we should be seated or should not be seated. 

The Chairman. They did have some discussion about it ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, plenty of discussion. 

The Chairman. Plenty ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes. Mr. Gibbons as trustee recognized our local, and 
they voted we could take part in the election. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gibbons ruled in his own election that you 
were entitled to vote ? 

Mr. Korhn. As trustees we were entitled to vote- 
Mr. Kennedy. I will read this one other provision of this consti- 
tution, which is article X, section 5 (c) : 

(c) All members paying dues to local unions must pay them on or before the 
first business clay of the current month, in advance. Where membership dues 
are being checked off by the employer pursuant to properly executed checkoff 
authorization, it shall be the obligation of the member to make one (1) payment 
of one (1) month's dues in advance to insure his good standing. Thereafter, he 
shall remain in good standing for each consecutive month for which the monthly 
checkoff is made. Any member failing to pay his dues at such time shall not 
be in good standing. Any member who shall be three (3) months in arrears in 
the payment of dues, fines, assessments, or other charges, at the end of the 
third (3d) month, shall automatically stand suspended and shall not be entitled 
to any rights or privileges as a member of the local union or international union. 

As I pointed out, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Korhn, for instance, had not 
paid 

The Chairman. How many months was he delinquent when he 
voted ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was delinquent from October 31, 1955, to May 
1956. He was delinquent November 30, 1956, to June 28, 1957, and 
from November 29, 1957, to March 31, 1958. The same kind of situa- 
tion as far as Mr. Brocies is concerned. 

The Chairman. At least he was delinquent 4 months at the time he 
voted for that preceding year. 

Mr. Kennedy. No, because the vote took place in January 1958. 
So he would be delinquent only for a month. 

The Chairman. We had better have somebody make these part of 
the record. 



14476 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

The Chairman. Are those the records of the ledger account of the 
dues of the two witnesses which you have ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; they are. 

Mr. Chairman. Where did you procure them ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. These were obtained from local 447 records in 
St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. They may be made exhibit No. 98. 

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 98" for reference 
and may be found in the files of the Select Committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Could we put the rest of them in for the rest of the 
individuals ? 

The Chairman. Do you have others you obtained for the other 
delegates that went down and voted ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir, we have. Here is Mr. Thomas Adams. 
His record reflects the same as the previous witnesses. 

The Chairman. Let us put them all in together. 

Mr. Kennedy. There is another one of particular interest which 
is Carl J. Fowler, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Mr. Fowler first started paying dues June 28, 
1957. He then stopped payment in November 1957, and started again 
in March 1958. 

The Chairman. Do you have any others ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Mr. Robert Garner, his reflects the same as Mr. 
Brocies and Mr. Korhn. Mr. George Hercha reflects the same as Mr. 
Korhn and Mr. Brocies. 

We have Mr. Harry Karsh's record here. His shows that his dues 
are paid every month during the whole year from the inception in 
June 1955 to the present date. He is the only one who has been paid 
up through the whole period of time. 

The Chairman. Let all of them be made exhibit 98. 

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 98 for reference 
and may be found in the files of the Select Committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. There is also a provision in the constitution, a num- 
ber of provisions which are interesting. 

The Chairman. Let the constitution be filed as exhibit No. 99. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 99" for ref- 
erence and may be found in the files of the Select Committee.) 

TESTIMONY OE HAROLD L. BROCIES AND VERNON P. KORHN, 
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, TED A. BOLINGER— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. There is article II, entitled "Jurisdiction, Mem- 
bership, and Eligibility to Office." Under the category of "Eligibil- 
ity to Office," section 4 states : 

To be eligible for election to any office of a local union or the international 
union a member must be in continuous good standing for a period of 2 years 
prior to nomination for said office and must have worked at the craft as a 
member for a total period of 2 years. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14477 

Then, Mr. Chairman, there is another section, section 5 (d), which 
states : 

Temporary officers and trustees must be members in good standing— 
this is dealing with unions that are under trusteeship, temporary 
officers appointed by the trustee — 

Temporary officers and trustees must be members in good standing of local 
unions in good standing. They must give bonds for the faithful discharge of 
their duties, satisfactory to whoever appointed them, which shall not be less 
than the amount of money they are apt to handle. 

Did anybody give any bonds ? 

Mr. Korhn. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Neither of you? Which one of you handles the 
money ? 

Mr. Brocies. I do. 

The Chairman. Neither one of you is under any bond ? You don't 
handle any money, just pay in % 

Mr. Korhn. I just pay in. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Stand aside. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Harry Karsh. 

The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall 
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Karsh. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HARRY KARSH, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
TED A. BOLINGER 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation. 

Mr. Karsh. My name is Harry Karsh. I live at 7150 Vernon Boule- 
vard, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Did you finish ? 

Mr. Karsh. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I was going to ask you what your business or 
occupation is. 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You have counsel. Counsel, you may identify 
yourself for the record. 

Mr. Bolinger. Ted A. Bolinger, 408 Olive Street, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Karsh, I would like to ask you how you received 
your charter first from the Jewelry Workers back in 1952. 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you honestly believe that if you answered the 
question truthfully as to what is your business or occupation, that a 
truthful answer thereto might tend to incriminate you? 



14478 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Karsii. I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the 
question I will be forced to become a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us whether Mr. Paul Dorfman was 
involved in that situation? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are you now a member of any union ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you think an organization that cannot be testi- 
fied about, without self-incrimination of the witness testifying, mem- 
bership in it, should be permitted to exist in this country ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. You do not want to be a witness against yourself. 
What else do you do ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is it a fact that you were an organizer of the A. F. of 
L. during the 1940's and that you were laid off because of questionable 
activities? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You became an organizer for local 688 of the Team- 
sters and then you participated in the sale of the union to Mr. Harold 
Gibbons, did you not, and received some $18,000 for that? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Why was your interest in the union worth only 
about half of what Mr. Camie's was ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. I guess I was under the wrong impression. I 
thought you were one of the big shots. You are just half big; is that 
right? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer that question, and 
assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Well, if you could claim to be a big shot, I don't 
think that would be against you ; would it ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a Avitness against myself. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14479 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Karsh, I would like to ask you one question 
that I think you could answer. 

Have you been present in this hearing room today — all day ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Karsh. Yes, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. Are you the Mr. Karsh that has been referred to by 
the previous witnesses ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Maybe we ought to call 1 or 2 of them around. 
Recall 1 or 2 of the witnesses, please, that have been testifying about 
Mr. Karsh. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hyman Powell. 

The Chairman. I think we can establish the fact that you are the 
same one, if you want to have the record show that you decline to say 
that you are. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Powell ? 

Is Mr. Powell out there ? 

The Chairman. Call Mr. Korhn back, too. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Korhn and Mr. Brocies ? 

The Chairman. Get some of those witnesses back that have been 
in here testifying. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you sold your interest out, isn't it a fact that 
you were making some $8,500 or $9,000 at the time that Mr. Gibbons 
took over as head of the union? That he increased your salary to 
$15,000; that you stayed on in the union for a year and then you sold 
out after this period of a year, and sold out for some $18,000? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that the money that you received, 
which was supposedly salary advance, or severance pay, also included 
certain expenses that you might have received during the coming year ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then after you left, you worked as a labor consult- 
ant, at least part time, for Mr. Nathan W. Shefferman ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you obtained the charter from the jewelry 
workers local, you became active in that, and then because of your 
high-handed methods, your charter was withdrawn, isn't that correct? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you became investigator, did you, a private in- 
vestigator, for Mr. Fred Bender, in St. Louis, from September 1953 
to April 1954? 



144S0 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then you started organizing under the opera- 
tions and control of the Teamsters Union in 1955 ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were responsible, were you, for a good deal of 
the damage that was done to the Kingling Bros. Circus in San Fran- 
cisco and in Philadelphia ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitu- 
tion not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then you were operating and running this local 
completely on your own. Then, when it was seen that further votes 
were needed in the election of January 1958, for the control of Joint 
Council 13, you arranged to appoint six others officers, is that correct? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are you one of those racketeers who has utter con- 
tempt for the Government of the United States ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that in 1955, in the election in Jan- 
uary 1956, when Mr. Hoffa was attempting to gain control of the joint 
council in New York City, he appointed and formed certain phony 
locals that had no members ; that a different system was used out in 
St. Louis by Mr. Harold Gibbons, because of all the attention that 
had been on New York, and what you did was appoint six other 
officers for this local that had never been active as far as its member- 
ship in the joint council is concerned? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

TESTIMONY OF VERNON F. KORHN— Resumed 

The Chairman. We will interrupt the interrogation of this witness 
just a moment. 

Mr. Korhn, in the course of your testimony of a few minutes ago, you 
referred to a Mr. Karsh, did you not ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know the man ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Where is he now ? 

Mr. Korhn. Eight here [indicating]. 

The Chairman. Do you mean the man testifying in the witness 
stand ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you sure ? 

Mr. Korhn. Yes, sir. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14481 

TESTIMONY OF HYMAN J. POWELL— Resumed 

The Chairman. How about you, Mr. Powell ? 

Mr. Powell. I met Mr. Karsh, I think, after we suspended the local. 
That was the first and only time I met him. It was 4 or 5 years ago. 

The Chairman. Do you recognize him ? 

Mr. Powell. I think that is the same man . 

The Chairman. You have no doubt about it, do you ? 

Mr. Powell. I have no doubt. 

The Chairman. Not a bit. 

All right. Thank you. 

Stand aside. 

Well, first 

Mr. Powell. I spoke to Mr. Jacobs. I just got him on the telephone 
about 10 minutes ago. Mr. Jacobs tells me he has no recollection of 
the conversation. However, he says he does not know of any other 
Paul. So he assumes it may be Mr. Dorfman. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

TESTIMONY OF HARRY KARSH, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
TED A. BQLINGER— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, it might be of some interest to know 
that we subpenaed the records of Mr. Joe Jacobs in Chicago, all the 
records in connection with Harry Karsh, and he furnished us every 
document except two letters that had the name Paul, the letters that 
referred to Paul in them. 

He gave us all the other documents except those two letters. 

The Chairman. The two that were introduced here today ? 

Mr. Kennedy. That is correct. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Thank you, gentlemen. 

Mr. Karsh, do you have any doubt now about who they were talking 
about ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Don't you see how ridiculous you make yourself 
when you wouldn't admit an obvious fact? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask one question. 

Did you ever make a report to any union members of the union 
money that you have handled ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Did you turn over to the international union all 
per capita tax that you received ? 



14482 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Well, did you keep it ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Am I to understand that you held out on the boys, 
on Jimmy Hoffa and Harold Gibbons ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the testimony that we have had before 
the committee, your activities on behalf of the Jewelry Workers Union 
and also on behalf of the Teamsters was not of any interest in the em- 
ployees, but you always went right to the management. Is that cor- 
rect? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And at least on one occasion you would not allow the 
animals to be unloaded so that they could be fed and receive water ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. I have an affidavit here from Mr. James E. Strates, 
who is president of the Strates Shows Carnival. He talks about his 
contact with you. He states : 

Karsh talked to me at that time and wanted me to go out and talk to my em- 
ployees and organize them for him. I told him my lawyers had advised me 
against that, and that I would not interfere with the workers. I told him that 
if they wanted to join the union he would have to organize them. At that 
time, he did not make any attempt to organize the employees. 

That same year, Karsh threatened Paul Olson, who operates the Olson Show, 
which winters at Hot Springs, Ark. Carl J. Sedlmayr, Sr., told me that that 
s. o. b. (meaning Karsh) went up and got Paul Olson, who is a small man, in his 
room and threatened him to the extent that when Olson emerged he was shaking 
like a leaf, and was sick for a week. 

This angered me and when Karsh came to see me at the Orlando Fair I re- 
fused to see him. My assistant manager at that time, Jes, urged me to talk to 
Karsh and I did so. Karsh told me such things as "I love the laborer. I'm 
working for the laborer. I want to make it easier for you. I want to organize 
your help. I want you to do it." I refused and at that time he got kind of 
rough with me. I don't recall what he said but I remember he threatened me. 
He also, at this time, told me that he would be my partner. I told him he was 
not going to fool me like he did Olson. He denied threatening Olson and I told 
him what he had done. 

Did you tell him you wanted him to go out and organize the em- 
ployees to make it easier for you ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the United States Constitution not to be a witness 
against myself. 

The Chairman. The affidavit may be printed in the record at this 
point. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14483 

(The document referred to follows :) 

affidavit 
City of Washington, 

District of Columbia, ss: 

James E. Striates, being duly sworn, deposes and says : 

James E. Strates Snows, Inc., is a New York corporation, of which I am 
president. This corporation owns and operates the James E. Strates Shows, a 
carnival. 

I first met Harry Karsh, a labor organizer, in Tampa, Fla. I believe this was 
in 1952. Karsh was in Tampa to attempt to sign a labor contract with Royal 
American Shows and the James E. Strates Shows. The Royal American Shows 
compelled their employees to join Karsh's union, although there was a lot of 
resentment among the employees and many of them wanted to leave the show. 

At that time, James E. Strates shows wintered in De Land, Fla. 

Subsequent to his visit to Tampa, Karsh visited Orlando, Fla. and De Land. 
I am not sure which city he visited first but he was at the Orlando Fair. 

Karsh talked to me at that time and wanted me to go out and talk to my 
employees and organize them for him. I told him my lawyers had advised 
me against that, and that I would not interfere with the workers. I told him 
that if they wanted to join the union he would have to organize them. At that 
time, he did not make any attempt to organize the employees. 

That same year, Karsh threatened Paul Olson, who operates the Olson Show, 
which winters at Hot Springs, Ark. Carl J. Sedlmayr, Sr., told me that the 
SOB (meaning Karsh) went up and got Paul Olson, who is a small man, in 
his room and threatened him to the extent that when Olson emerged he was 
shaking like a leaf, and was sick for a week. 

This angered me and when Karsh came to see me at the Orlando Fair I 
refused to see him. My assistant manager at that time, Jes, urged me to talk 
to Karsh and I did so. Karsh told me such things as "I love the laborer. I'm 
working for the laborer. I want to make it easier for you. I want to organize 
your help. I want you to do it." I refused and at that time he got kind 
of rough with me. I don't recall what he said but I remember he threatened 
me. He also, at this time, told me that he would be my partner. I told him 
he was not going to fool me like he did Olson. He denied threatening Olson 
and I told him what he had done. I told him I would sign nothing and he 
could go ahead and organize the employees if he wanted to. He did not do so 
and left Orlando thereafter. 

Karsh then went to Tampa and afterward telephoned me from Tampa and 
told me "the king capitulated." By this, he meant that Sedlmayr had made 
a labor agreement with him. Sedlmayr operates the Royal American Shows, 
which is one of the largest carnivals. 

I told him I did not give a damn for the king and that I was not signing up. 

A few weeks later, Karsh came to De Land again and, at this time, he was 
driving a dilapidated old automobile and there was a woman with him. I again 
refused to sign with him and he pleaded with me for a while and asked me why 
I wanted to fight somebody else's battle. 

Karsh was very angry when he left me and I followed him a little way and 
observed him driving the old small car and that there was a woman with him. 

I did not see Karsh again in Florida. The show went North and opened in 
Washington, D. C, as we usually do, and Karsh called on me at Washington 
and told me he was calling a meeting of all the show owners at Atlanta, Ga., 
to have a conference and sign a contract. I told him I would not go and, when 
he said everybody else was going, I told him I didn't care and would not go. 

The next day, I got a telephone call from Jack Wilson of Cetlin & Wilson 
Shows of Petersburg, Va. Wilson asked me if I was going to Atlanta and I 
told him I was not. Later I got a telephone call from Frank Bergen of the 
World of Mirth Shows. 

He asked me if I was going to Atlanta and told me he had received a call 
from Karsh. I told him I was not going and he said if I didn't go, he wouldn't 
either. I am not sure whether Wilson went to Atlanta or not. 

I did not see Karsh after that. Our show got to Plainfield, N. J., a few weeks 
later, and I received a telephone call from one of the concessionaires, who 
told me that Royal American Shows had already signed with Karsh and that 
they were after me. I told him to let them be after me. 



14484 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I telephoned Sedlmayr and asked him what he was doing with relation to 
Karsh. He said he had not yet signed with him but that he was going to. 
Sedlmayr was in Memphis, Tenn., at that time. He told me he was going to 
sign with Karsh because "this guy is vicious." I told him I would not sign 
with Karsh. 

When our show was in Schenectady, N. Y., in June or July of that same year, 
I received a telephone call from the same concessionaire previously mentioned. 

This concessionaire is Willie Steinberg, who usually goes by the name of 
W T illie Stein, and he was a concessionaire with the Cetlin & Wilson Shows. 

He called me from some place where there is a big plant of the International 
Harvester Co. I believe this place was in Indiana, and it may have been Fort 
Wayne. He telephoned me on a Sunday night and said "they" had just come 
down there with 25 or 30 men with guns and held up the Cetlin & Wilson 
Shows, preventing them from operating. He said they had just had it out and 
these people had come down with guns and clubs and stopped them from 
unloading. He told me these men held the Wilson Show up until 11 or 12 
at night, and they had finally made up their mind to sign with Karsh. Stein 
told me I was next on the list. 

I didn't see Karsh again until we showed at Clearfield, Pa., during the first 
week of August. Karsh came to Clearfield with some "gorilla," whose name 
I do not know. Art Lewis, my assistant manager, persuaded me to talk with 
Karsh. Karsh, Lewis, and I met in the office wagon and I asked Karsh what 
he had in mind. He said "What the hell you want to be rough and fight 
somebody else's battles for?" 

He wanted to talk to the Strates employees and did have a meeting with 
them. I think this was in Clearfield. After he talked to them a vote was 
taken and all the employees voted against joining his union. 

Afterward, possibly the next day, Karsh came to me again and wanted me 
to help him out with organizing the employees. I refused, and told him I 
didn't like his attitude or his tactics and that I would txo according to the 
law. 

He indicated complete disrespect for the law. I told him the only thing 
he could do with me would be to stop the trucks from moving. I told him 
I did not hire any trucks but that the show operated its own trucks and I 
was going to be driving the first truck and if any of his people came in front 
of me, I would run over them. 

During the next season, Karsh did not approach me but, while we were at 
Albany, N. Y., the season after that, two men from the Retail Clerks Union 
came 'to see me at Albany, N. Y., about organizing the employees. They told 
me what the conditions would be and they were not too bad. Their conditions 
involved a small raise for the employees. I told them to be at Utica, N. Y., 
the next week and, if the employees were willing, I would sign. 

These men did come to Utica and held a meeting with the employees, at 
which they were polite and explained to the employees what they would 
give them. I figured this contract would cost the show about $10,000 a year, 
but that I would rather do business with this AFL union than with someone 
who was trying to force me into something. 

I signed with the Retail Clerks and they still represent the employees. 

Four weeks after signing with the Retail Clerks, the show was playing 
at Cheektowaga, N. Y., which is near Buffalo. I received a telephone call 
from the chief of police on a Friday night. He told me he had just got word 
that the Teamsters were going to picket my show around 6 p. m. 

I told him I had signed with the AFL, and he told me they were going to 
picket me anyway. I presume the union took this action late on Friday to 
prevent me from getting an injunction. 

I telephoned the Retail Clerks Union in New York, and they had a man 
fly to Cheektowaga to start injunction proceedings. This man was a lawyer 
by the name of Charles Torch, of Albany, N. Y. He looked into the matter and 
learned that Karsh was there, and he also told me that Beck had permitted 
the picketing. 

Torch stayed up all night working on the injunction proceedings and, by 
noon the next day, had obtained an injunction. 

I believe the name of the judge who signed it was Hagerty (phonetic), and 
I remember Torch had to drive out in the country to see him. The Teamsters 
had started picketing Friday evening but stopped as soon as we obtained the 
injunction. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14485 

While they had the picket line on they had stopped all supplies from coming 
in so the show had to send its own trucks out for supplies. I believe this 
was about the middle of July 1953 or 1054. I have not seen Karsh since 
that time and in fact I did not see him at that time but I was told he was there. 

Subsequently the World of Mirth Shows and the Celtin & Wilson Shows 
also signed with the Retail Clerks. About 3 years ago, Torch started working 
with Karsh and left the Retail Clerks Union. After he went with Karsh, he 
signed up the O. C. Buck Shows and the Coleman Bros. Show. 

Under our contract with the Retail Clerks, Strates Shows pay $4.40 a month 
into the welfare fund during the carnival season. I believe the members pay 
$3 a month dues during the season and the contract provides for the checkoff 
system. The welfare fund covers the employees only during the carnival 
season. 

At the time Karsh was in De Land, Fla., he was driving a dilapidated old 
Chevrolet. When he was in Clearfield, later on, he was driving a brandnew 
Fleetwood Cadillac, smoked 50-cent cigars, and was well-dressed. 

About 2 years ago, representatives of a St. Louis newspaper, I believe the 
Post-Dispatch, came to me seeking information about Karsh, and said he 
had sued the paper for $500,000 because they had called him an ex-convict 
or something like that. 

Karsh also signed up Mr. F. E. Gooding of Columbus, Ohio, who operates 
several show units and who is a big operator. Gooding gave Karsh a check 
for $2,500. He then tried to stop payment on the check but Karsh got to the 
bank early in the morning and got the money. 

Further, affiant saith not. 

James E. Strates. 

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 26th day of April 1958. 

Margaret T. Whiston, 
Notary Public, District of Columbia. 

My commission expires November 14, 1960. 

I understand this statement may be used by the United States Senate Labor- 
Management Committee in public hearings and consent to its introduction in 
evidence. 

James E. Strates. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you threaten him and tell him that you wanted 
to be his partner? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you do with all the money from the 
Jewelry Workers local ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. How have you spent the money that came in in this 
local of the Teamsters, local 447 ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You went down there to Florida and obtained these 
6 employees or 6 individuals, who were all associated with manage- 
ment, and you and Mr. Gibbons made them officers of the local ; isn't 
that correct ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And under the ruling of Mr. Gibbons, which was 
later supported by a group of officers that were appointed by Air. 



14486 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Hoffa to look into the matter, you and the other six individuals were 
allowed to participate in the election and swung the election for Mr. 
Gibbons ; is that right ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Did it take that maneuver to get him elected? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Without those votes, would he have been defeated ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Do you think you are above the law ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. It shows, does it not, Mr. Karsh, once again, that 
the top officials of the union operated and run the union as if it was 
their own private, personal property ? 

Mr. Karsii. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Gibbons, like Mr. Hoffa, is not interested 
in democracy within the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Con- 
stitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Whether he could do it under the constitution, the 
Teamster constitution, or not, certainly every vestige of democratic 
procedure would have called upon him and you as the officers of the 
local, and Mr. Hoffa, to have an election, to select the delegates who 
were going to participate in the joint council election in St. Louis; 
isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. That election was run and operated just as you ran 
and operated your local, as we have seen here today; isn't that right? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions ? 

Senator Curtis. Can the staff inform me whether or not this gentle- 
man is still a part of the Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He is still the one who runs Local 447 of the 
Teamsters. 

Senator Curtis. Is he on the Teamsters payroll ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He is. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14487 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Karsh, have you heard of the Bender 
commission ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and as- 
sert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States 
Constitution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. Well, now, I know Mr. Bender to be a very studi- 
ous person, and he is apt to read this record. I don't believe hearing 
about that commission would incriminate anybody. Have you ever 
heard of it? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Senator Curtis. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Is there anything further ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have some checks here. I don't 
know whether we will get any answers. They were signed by Mr. 
Gibbons and Mr. Hoffa for a considerable amount of money. They are 
all made out to Harry Karsh. 

The Chairman. I present to you four photostatic copies of checks, 
1 dated August 31, 1955, in the amount of $2,000, signed by James R. 
Hoffa. It is check No. 2751. I present to you another check in the 
amount of $1,000, dated September 9, 1955, check No. 2759, signed by 
Mr. Hoffa — James R. Hoffa and H. J. Gibbons. Another one, dated 
September 16, 1955, in the amount of $1,000, check No. 2771, signed by 
James R. Hoffa and H. J. Gibbons. Another one is dated October 10, 
1955, in the amount of $1,000, check No. 2867, signed by James R. Hoffa 
and H. J. Gibbons. All four checks are made payable to you and bear- 
ing your endorsement on the reverse side thereof. I ask you to examine 
these checks and state if you identify them as photostatic copies of the 
checks you received. 

(The documents were handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Have you examined the checks ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Karsk. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That is the first answer we have had. Will you now 
identify the checks ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. What was this money paid to you for ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Was it in payment for some skulduggery about 
which you cannot testify without incriminating yourself % 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. The checks will be made exhibit 100, A, B, C, and 
D, in order of their dates. 



14488 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

(The checks referred to were marked "Exhibit 100, A, B, C, and 
D," for reference and will be found in the appendix on pp. 14550- 
14553.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Karsh, why was Mr. Gibbons so anxious to help 
you continuously ? For example, why did he recommend you in 1952 
to the Jewelry Workers Union ? 

Mr. Karsh. I can't hear you, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why was Mr. Gibbons so close to you, personally? 
Why did he recommend you to the Jewelry Workers Union in 1952, 
for instance? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully descline to answer the question, and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. With your unsavory reputation and the fact that 
you lost your charter, that you were involved with Mr. Nathan Sheffer- 
man, how were you able to obtain another charter and once again 
become close to Mr. Harold Gibbons in 1955 ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. According to the sworn testimony we have here, you, 
No. 1, organized from the top, frequently against the will of the em- 
ployees ; No. 2, you made no effort to contact the employees in advance 
of forcing a contract on the employer ; No. 3, you endeavored to place 
the show in a position where it could not afford a delay and where you 
could coerce the employer to sign a contract ; No. 4, there was violence, 
particularly in Philadelphia and San Francisco; No. 5, you collected 
the first month's dues with a check without any contact with the 
employee. 

Finally, according to the testimony that we have had, even from 
the president, none of the members are afforded any right or control 
over the operation of the union or given any information regarding 
the finances of the local. 

Now, why would Mr. Gibbons and Mr. Hoffa put up with something 
like that, Mr. Karsh? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question, and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. The reason is because they condone it and similar 
operations that they have in many sections of the country: isn't that 
right, Mr. Karsh? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have no interest in the employees whatsoever, 
you are only interested in the money involved ; isn't that correct ? You 
have no interest in labor union organization or in the employees ? 

Mr. Karsh. I respectfully decline to answer the question and assert 
my privilege under the fifth amendment of the United States Consti- 
tution not to be a witness against myself. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14489 

The Chair has stated on a number of occasions that there is an 
element in this country that has infiltrated certain labor organizations 
that is definitely a challenge to law and order and to constitutional 
government in this country. These witnesses who come into high 
positions in unions such as the position that this witness has openly 
and affirmatively confirm that declaration. 

You may stand aside. 

The committee will stand in recess until 10 : 30 in the morning. 

(Thereupon, at 4: 20 p. m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at 
10 :30 a.m., Friday, August 29, 1958.) 

(Members of the select committee present at the taking of the recess 
were : Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 



2J243— 5'J— pt. 3S 



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD 



FRIDAY, AUGUST 29, 1958 

United States Senate, 
Select Committee on Improper Activities 

in the Labor or Management Field. 

Washington, D. G. 

The select committee met at 10 : 30 a. m., pursuant to Senate Reso- 
lution 221, agreed to January 29, 1958, in the caucus room, Senate 
Office Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select 
committee) presiding. 

Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Sen- 
ator Carl T. Curtis, Republican, Nebraska. 

Also present : Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Adler- 
man, assistant chief counsel; Paul Tierney, assistant counsel; John 
J. McGovern, assistant counsel; Carmine S. Bellino, assistant coun- 
sel; Pierre E. Salinger, investigator; Leo C. Nulty, investigator; 
James P. Kelly, investigator; Walter J. Sheridan, investigator; 
James Mundie, investigator, Treasury Department; John Flanagan, 
investigator, GAO; Alfred Vitarelli, investigator, GAO; Ruth 
Young Watt, chief clerk. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

(Members of the committee present at the convening of the ses- 
sion were : Senators McClellan and Curtis.) 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, this matter refers to something 
entirely separate and apart from the current hearings but this 
being the last day that I will be at these hearings for some weeks 
I wanted to report it in the record. 

On March 25, 1958, I made a request which was found on page 
3851 of the transcript for that day, in which I wanted certain in- 
formation to be furnished by Mr. Walter Reuther. The thing I re- 
quested was a list of all the international representatives who have 
been commissioned, appointed or designated by the UAW-CIO. I 
received a list containing almost 32 pages, 22 names on a page, which 
is entitled "International Representatives." And a statement that 
that is the representatives as of Wednesday, March 26, 1958. 

I just call your attention to the fact I have received this material, 
but point out that it is the current list as of March 26, 1958, and 
does not include all of those that have been appointed in the past. 
Without taking any further time, Mr. Chairman, I mention this in 
the record, and I would ask that the staff be directed to call this 
to his attention so that the balance of the material can be supplied. 

14491 



14492 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

The Chairman. You make your request specific in the record, what 
material you wish. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, the material I want Mr. Reuther 
to supply are those international representatives, the names and ad- 
dresses of those international representatives of the UAW-CIO, 
which have been commissioned or appointed or designated by the 
UAW-CIO, other than those that were included in the list provided. 

The Chairman. For how many years back ? 

Senator Curtis. Since he became president. 

The Chairman. Very good. 

All right, is there anything further ? 

Senator Curtis. That is all, and I thank you very much. 

The Chairman. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Robert F. Lewis. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence, given 
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Lewis. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBEKT F. LEWIS 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Lewis, will you state your name, 
your place of residence, and your business or occupation ? 

Mr. Lewis. Robert F. Lewis, I am the secretary-treasurer of the 
Brewers and Maltsters Union, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, I do. 

Mr. Kennedy. That union is part of the Teamsters, is it ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, we are affiliated with the Teamsters Joint 
Council 13. 

Mr. Kennedy. How long have you been in the labor movement, 
Mr. Lewis ? 

Mr. Lewis. Since the latter part of 1945. 

Mr. Kennedy. What union were you with then ? 

Mr. Lewis. I was with the same union, and I was affiliated with 
a different international union. 

Mr. Kennedy. What international union were you with ? 

Mr. Lewis. CIO Brewery Workers. 

Mr. Kennedy. And when did you become an official, in 1945 ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir, I officially was voted in office in 1946. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then you disaffiliated from the CIO ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the difficulty ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, it was a manifold of reasons, more than anything 
because of their dictatorial attitude, bringing pickets into St. Louis 
and putting them at the Anheuser-Busch plant against the will of 
my members as well as the executive board of the various brewery 
workers unions. 

Mr. Kennedy. So you disaffiliated ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. You and your membership withdrew from the CIO ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; and two other organizations with me in the 
Brewery Workers Joint Council. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was that, and when did that happen ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14493 

Mr. Lewis. That was in 1952. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you independent then for a period of time? 

Mr. Lewis. A very short time, and I felt we would have to affiliate 
with some organization who economically were substantial enough 
to deal with the breweries who at that time were starting to decentral- 
ize and build in various localities in the country other than in St. 
Louis. At that particular time Anheuser-Busch had just two plants, 
and the second plant was under construction in New Jersey at that 
time. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us how you became affiliated with 
the Teamsters, then ? 

Mr. Lewis. I was under the impression that that was the only or- 
ganization that my organization could affiliate with because of a 
mandate of the AFL that in the event the brewery workers would 
see fit to affiliate with any other labor organization or international, 
they could only affiliate with the Teamsters. 

Now, this represents a 40-year old jurisdictional dispute and there is 
a lot more to it than I could at this moment explain. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you affiliated with the Teamsters ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir ; we did. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1952? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Your local ? 

Mr. Lewis. The Brewers and Maltsters Union, and the Brewery 
Oilers and Firemen's Union, and the Brewery, Mill, Grain and Syrup 
Workers also affiliated with the Teamsters. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many members does your local have ? 

Mr. Lewis. At the time of my affiliation I represented 2,300 mem- 
bers, my own organization. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many members do you have at the present 
time? 

Mr. Lewis. 1,600. 

Mr. Kennedy. That fluctuates, does it not, depending on the time 
of the year ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, I lost about 500 or 600 members to the CIO, and 
they were successful in Labor Board action against me, and all of the 
500 or 600 men voted for my organization, but they voted the whole 
city of St. Louis Brewery Workers against my organization, and con- 
sequently I lost close to 600 men. They voted to a man better than 600 
to stick or affiliate with my union but unfortunately I lost them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What local number is this ? 

Mr. Lewis. That I represented, No. 6. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have periodic elections in your local, do you ? 

Mr. Lewis. Periodical, yes, sir, and we used to have one every year, 
but since the international union requires every 3 years, that is the 
minimum figure, that is the one we comply with. 

Mr. Kennedy. You have membership meetings how often? 

Mr. Lewis. Once a month. 

Mr. Kennedy. Out of your approximately 1,600 members, how 
many people come to your membership meetings ? 

Mr. Lewis. I have between 850 and 1,000 people at every one of my 
meetings, and I am proud to say that. 

Mr. Kennedy. How are you able to get such a high attendance ? 



14494 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Lewis. I think you have to perform for these people and you 
have to administer to them properly, and if you don't they are not 
going to attend the meetings. If you are going to talk about the 
weather, or something that generally doesn't pertain to their welfare, 
they are not going to attend the meetings and a man must attend at 
least six meetings in my organization. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you think that there has been, in some instances, 
discouragement of membership at meetings by certain officials? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, I don't know whether they discourage the members 
or not but I sometimes wonder how in the devil you can run an organi- 
zation when you have possibly 2,000 or 3,000 people and you end up 
with a membership attendance of 125 or 200 or 300 people. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Lewis, you were a candidate for the office 
in the joint council election in St. Louis? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. Kennedy. What position were you running for ? 

Mr. Lewis. As recording secretary. 

Mr. Kennedy. What had been the situation as far as joint council 13 
was concerned ? That was under trusteeship ? 
Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was placed in trusteeship during what period of 
time? 

Mr. Lewis. Back in 1953 sometime, if I remember correctly. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Beck put the whole joint council under 
trusteeship ? 

Mr. Lewis. It was my understanding that Mr. Beck put the council 
under trusteeship. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Gibbons was made the trustee ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why was he made the trustee, Mr. Lewis, and why 
was Mr. Gibbons selected at that time ? 

Mr. Lewis. You are asking for my observation, Mr. Kennedy ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Lewis. Well, I think it was a political plum, and that is my way 
of looking at it. 

Mr. Kennedy. And it was given to Mr. Gibbons by Mr. Beck ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is right, and I think there were a lot of fine old men 
disposed of, good old men, men who had devoted their lives to the 
labor movement who were disposed of, and Mr. Gibbons would have 
never gotten the council in St. Louis if Mr. Beck didn't give it to him. 

Mr. Kennedy. He couldn't have been elected ? 

Mr. Lewis. He couldn't have run for dogkeeper and made it. 

Mr. Kennedy. He hadn't been in the Teamsters long enough ? 

Mr. Lewis. It wasn't so much a question of whether he was affiliated 
with the Teamsters or who he was, and I don't think the man was liked, 
and I think this recent election was reasonable proof of that. 

Mr. Kennedy. If the joint council had not been put in trusteeship, 
and Mr. Beck had not appointed Mr. Gibbons, he would never have 
gained that control, is that correct ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is exactly my own personal feeling and I think it 
represents the feelings of a lot of other people in St. Louis, too. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was taken out of trusteeship in 1957, is that right ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. At the end of 1957? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14495 

Mr. Lewis. It was never taken out of trusteeship and it is still in 
trusteeship. 

Mr. Kennedy. It still is? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. They took a step toward taking it out of trusteeship, 
in having an election, is that right ? 

Mr. Lewis. It was a faulty step but it was taken any way. 

Mr. Kennedy. What position were you running for ? 

Mr. Lewis. I ran for recording secretary. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were nominated and running for recording 
secretary ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many locals are there in the joint council in St. 
Louis ? 

Mr. Lewis. I never have known the joint council to represent any 
more than 20 locals. 

Mr. Kennedy. There were 20 locals, and does that include local 
447? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir; and never to the best of my recollection had 
477 ever been a part of joint council 13 in St. Louis. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, the joint council puts out a research bulletin, 
do they not ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir ; we receive those once a month, and the coun- 
cil publishes those bulletins. 

The Chairman. I hand you here what purports to be a photostatic 
copy of that bulletin, dated January 15, 1958, and ask you to examine 
it and sttae if you identify it. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; this is one of the research bulletins. 

The Chairman. Thank you. That may be made exhibit 101. 

(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 101" for reference 
and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. That is put out by the joint council, is it? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators 
McClellan and Curtis.) 

Mr. Kennedy. And a good deal of study and work goes into that, 
does it not ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, they have some research men who compile this 
information and publish it once a month. 

Mr. Kennedy. Does that list the members of the joint council? 

Mr. Lewis. This lists the various local unions affiliated with the 
joint council, but there is no mention of local 447. 

Mr. Kennedy. There is not ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. It lists here the total number also, it lists out here 
in the front, the numbers of the locals, is that right ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. For instance, your local No. 6 at the top? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, I head the list. 

Mr. Kennedy. 447 is not listed there ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then inside on the second page, it says "Facts 
and figures relating to Joint Council of Teamsters No. 13" and it 



14496 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

gives the total number of affiliateed unions and gives that number 
as 20? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Which, of course, would not include local 447? 

Mr. Lewis. No, it would not include the carnival workers 447, no, 
sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Here you have the International Brotherhood of 
Teamsters, Chauffeurs and Warehousemen, roster of local unions. I 
would like to have you examine that. 

The date of exhibit 101 is January 15, 1958, which is the date of 
the election. 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The election was on the same day ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I hand you here what purports to be roster of local 
unions, with addresses of the secretaries, dated October 1, 1957. I ask 
you to examine that and state if you identify it. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. This is published by the international union, 
and this is a roster of the local unions. 

The Chairman. That may be made exhibit 102. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit 102" for reference 
and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. That is the roster that was published by the union 
on that date ? 

Mr. Lewis. The international union ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Kennedy. This lists all of the local unions of the Interna- 
tional Brotherhood of Teamsters, is that correct ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, to the best of my knowledge it always has listed 
every local union in St. Louis that was affiliated. 

Mr. Kennedy. I am not talking now about the research bulletin, I 
am talking about the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Chauf- 
feurs, and Warehousemen roster of local unions. 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. It lists all the locals, there, their addresses and their 
principal officers, and on page 40 it has local 447, carnival and allied 
workers, United States of America. 

Other locals, for instance, your local here is Brewers, Malting and 
General Labor Department, St, Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Every local has its residence, is that correct? 

Mr. Lewis. That is correct, 

Mr. Kennedy. And this one has the United States of America ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Over on page 146 also it lists the locals broken 
down into areas, into States, and you have here as a national local 
only one union, and the name of that union is the Carnival and 
Allied Workers Local 447. There is nothing about the fact that 
it is affiliated or associated with St, Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then starting on page 155, it has a cross-reference 
with the local imion and the joint council. It lists each local union 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14497 

and the joint council that that local union is a member of. On 
page 157 we see that local 447 is not affiliated with any joint council. 
It is not mentioned at all. 

Mr. Lewis. That has always been my impression, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you surprised, then, or was it brought up 
to you that local 447 was going to participate in this election of 
joint council 13 ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. Not only was it a surprise, but it was quite 
a shock. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you first find out about it ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, when it was made known that we were going 
to go out of trusteeship, Mr. Gibbons stated that he was going to 
vote local 447 's votes, and to which a number of other candidates 
on the slate objected to including myself. 

The Chairman. Senator Curtis. 

Senator Curtis. Based upon your knowledge of the labor move- 
ment and your connections there in St. Louis, and in regard to the 
facts recited here about that Carnival Workers' Union, is it your 
opinion that they did have a lawful authority to vote? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir, it is not my opinion that they had a lawful 
authority to vote in joint council 13, St. Louis. 

Senator Curtis. And you feel it is so clear that there is not a dis- 
pute about it? 

Mr. Lewis. There is no dispute in my mind, sir, and I don't think 
there is any dispute in anyone else's mind connected with joint coun- 
cil 13 that wants to be honest about it. 

Senator Curtis. Thank you. 

Mr. Kennedy. On that point, back on May 11, 1955, an exami- 
nation of the locals appearing on the rollcall at the joint council 
meetings, there is part of the minutes, showing that the seating of 
Carnival and Allied Workers Local 447 passed upon by the body. 

"Brother Karsh gave a report on progress of organization." That 
appears in the minutes that we subpenaed of joint council 13. That 
would indicate that local 447 was seated with the joint council back 
in May of 1955. 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Kennedy, I disagree with what the minutes embody. 
Mr. Karsh was introduced to the assembly of delegates that night of 
the joint council. He was introduced as being an organizer for the 
Carnival Workers. Mr. Gibbons was not even present there at the 
meeting that night. Mr. Walla was the one that chaired the meeting 
that particular night. Mr. Walla merely introduced Mr. Karsh, 
which, in my opinion, was only proper. After all, if you see a strange 
face in a meeting of delegates, you would like to know who he is. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you say there wasn't any seating of the Carnival 
and Allied Workers Local 447 ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. It has always been a practice of joint council 
13, when any new delegates are admitted, that their names be pre- 
sented to the delegates assembled, and then by motion they are seated. 
In this particular case, it was nothing but an introduction, because 
nobody was ever under the impression that St. Louis had anything 
to do with the Carnival Workers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you say that these minutes as they appear here, 
as they are written up and as I read them, are phony minutes, then ? 



14498 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Lewis. Let me say this, Mr. Kennedy. I am not going to sit 
here and say that they are phony. But let me say I have seen a lot of 
shenanigans going on in joint council 13 and nothing would surprise 
me. 

Mr. Kennedy. But you say local 447 was never seated at that time ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. They were introduced, and it was never in- 
tended that they be seated. 

Mr. Kennedy. On June 8, 1955, it says there are 21 locals appearing 
on the roll, and that includes local 447, but no 447 delegates were 
present. You say they were never included and never considered to 
be part of the joint council ? 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Kennedy, in joint council 13 or any other council, 
organizers are always admitted. They are there as observers. They 
are not there as delegates. They have no legal right to express them- 
selves, other than the fact that they might be called on by the Chair to 
give an explanation as to the progress of their organizational activities. 

Mr. Kennedy. I might say, Mr. Chairman, that from that date on, 
June 8, 1955, on, in the rollcall of those at the joint council meeting, 
that local 447 is never mentioned again. It just states that there are 
20 locals and 447 never appears after that date. 

The Chairman. Did it take 447 to make the 20 locals ? 

Mr. Kennedy. 21 locals. 

Mr. Lewis. 21 locals. 

Mr. Kennedy. After that date, it appears that there are only 20 
locals in joint council 13. 

The Chairman. It would take 447 to make the number 21? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You have 20 aside from that ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And at the rollcall, which was called at the joint 
council meeting after June of 1955, local 447 was never mentioned. 

The Chairman. Who can verify these minutes ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Langenbacher. 

The Chairman. Where did you procure this copy of the minutes? 

Mr. Langenbacher. It was taken from the book of minutes of 
joint council 13. 

The Chairman. These minutes may be made exhibit 103. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 103" for 
reference, and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

Mr. Kennedy. Will you tell us what happened when you first 
heard about local 447, the Carnival Workers, which we have been 
discussing, that they were going to participate in the election. 

Who made that announcement ? 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Gibbons did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say then ? 

Mr. Lewis. He said that the local 447 votes were going to be 
voted by him. 

Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what your reaction was? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, it was quite an explosion. We made it clear 
that we were not going to hold still for it. Then he asked if Mr. 
Karsh could not vote the votes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who ? 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Karsh, who is the supposed secretary-treasurer 
of the Carnival Workers. We also objected to that. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14499 

Mr. Kennedy. Had not Mr. Karsh nominated some of the officers 
or at least one of the officers on Mr. Gibbons' slate ? 

Mr. Lewis. At the nominations, Mr. Kennedy, they even had or- 
ganizers they intended to have nominate. The organizers at first, 
under Mr. Gibbons' direction, were even going to be allowed to 
vote. We objected to that. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Karsh nominate one of the officers on 
Mr. Gibbons' slate? 

Mr. Lewis. To the best of my recollection, yes; yes, he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was there any objection to that ? 

Mr. Lewis. I think we objected to Mr. Karsh having anything 
to say prior to that time, but Mr. Gibbons ruled again. Of course, 
you have to understand the trusteeship under the Teamsters' direction 
to know how one can rule a body of men. It would take an hour 
trying to explain that to you. 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ? 

Is it an ordinary practice to place joint councils under trusteeship in 
union operations I will ask both the witness and the staff. Do you 
know, Mr. Lewis? 

Mr. Lewis. Let me say that in my opinion, sir, a lot of these joint 
council local unions, not only in St. Louis but all over the country were 
placed in trusteeship for political reasons. 

Senator Curtis. I understand that, but most of them which have 
been called to my attention were the individual local unions. Are 
there many instances where an entire joint council in an area has been 
placed under trusteeship, do you happen to know ? 

Mr. Lewis. To be very frank with you, I know of no other joint 
council under trusteeship now. There very well could be, but to the 
best of my knowledge, I don't know. 

Senator Curtis. Does the staff know ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I don't know of any other joint council under 
trusteeship. 

Mr. Gibbons then stated that Mr. Karsh should be allowed to vote 
the delegates. What was the reaction to that ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, I thought it was only fair, Mr. Kennedy, that Mr. 
Karsh bring his delegates in like everybody else was expected to do. 
All the other locals must have their delegates present. No one would be 
allowed to vote any votes for the delegates. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who these delegates were ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir, I did not. Nobody else did either, I don't think. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask for the names and addresses of the 
delegates ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did you ask? 

Mr. Lewis. A number of the other men on our slate asked for them, 
including myself. We asked Mr. Gibbons for them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did Mr. Gibbons say? 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Gibbons really didn't say anything. He said Mr. 
Karsh had them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did Mr. Karsh say ? 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Karsh wasn't in this particular meeting. He was 
outside of the door of the particular office in which we had the meeting 
in, and I visited Mr. Karsh on 2 or 3 occasions in and out of the door. 



14500 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I asked Mr. Karsh for the names of his delegates, and he gave me a 
lot of mumbo- jumbo about them being in Puerto Rico, South America, 
and God knows where. I said, "We will have to pick up a little Span- 
ish to talk to these people if they come in." 

Mr. Kennedy. He said they were in Puerto Rico ? 

Mr. Lewis. Florida, Puerto Rico, and God knows how many other 
places. Mexico also. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he had a delegate in California, too? 

Mr. Lewis. I can't recollect that State. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask him to get the names and addresses 
of these delegates? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; I asked three times. I asked for just the 
names. He wouldn't give me the names. Mr. Gibbons stuck his 
head out the door and told him, "Keep your mouth shut; don't 
give him any information." 

Mr. Gibbons claimed he had the names, but they were downstairs, 
locked in a file somewhere. I don't know why they were locked, 
but they were locked. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was this ? 

Mr. Lewis. This was the same day. 

Mr. Kennedy. In December 1957 ? 

Mr. Lewis. 1957? 

Yes, sir ; prior to the election. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we had testimony yesterday that the 
delegates were not selected by Mr. Karsh until January of 1958. 
So it would appear that they had no names at that time. 

Did Mr. Karsh say that he would have to go and pick up these 
delegates ? 

Mr. Lewis. I suggested to Mr. Gibbons that these people either 
be telephoned, telegraphed, or their employers be notified to get this 
contact with them. They professed that these people were all over 
the world. 

They made it so complex and at the same time asinine that toward 
the end it did not make a lot of sense to me one way or another. 
But anyway, I went along with the joke. But I suggested from a 
practical sense I suggested that they be contacted by those three 
media, by telephone, telegraph, or tell the employer to contact 
them. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the reaction to that ? 

Mr. Lewis. He said that no, Mr. Karsh had to go out and round 
them up. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who said that? 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Gibbons and so did Mr. Karsh. 

Mr. Kennedy. Was it arranged for Mr. Karsh to go round them 
up? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes. He said he would be on his way very shortly, 
and he was going by slow boat and train, because he does not like 
planes. He is afraid of them. There is no place to step out when 
something goes wrong up there. 

Mr. Kennedy. He said he was going to take a slow boat? 

Mr. Lewis. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was the election supposed to be at that time? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, it was postponed in order to give Mr. Karsh 
his lariat in order to go out and round them up. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14501 

Mr. Kennedy. Had local 447 been paying per capita dues into 
the joint council ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir ; to the best of my recollection, I am reasonably 
certain now they have never paid any per capita tax in the joint 
council. 

Mr. Kennedy. They never had ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask Mr. Gibbons about that? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir, I did not, but I presumed, and I had infor- 
mation to the effect that they had never paid per capita tax. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know if they had been paying any dues into 
the international, per capita tax into the international? 

Mr. Lewis. I could not answer that, Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the list of the other delegates? Did 
you ask Mr. Gibbons for a list of the others? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. We were all required — every local secretary 
whose union was affiliated with the joint council — to submit the 
names to Mr. Gibbons, of their executive board, who are the eligible 
candidates or the eligible participants in the election. They are the 
delegates to the council and eligible to vote. There are seven men 
to an executive board. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did everybody submit their names ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; everybody did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Including yourself? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ask Mr. Gibbons for the names of the 
delegates who were going to participate in the election ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say ? 

Mr. Lewis. He refused to give them to us. 

The Chairman. You were one of the candidates ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. What I wanted and what the rest of the men 
on our slate wanted, was the names and the addresses of the various 
delegates eligible to vote in the council, because we had word to the 
effect that Mr. Gibbons was coming out with a letter, glorifying 
himself and all that he had done in behalf of joint council 13. By 
virtue of that, it would naturally or supposedly have a tendency to 
sway the eligible delegates to vote for his slate. A letter was sent 
out to that effect ; we were denied the addresses of the delegates, and 
the addresses, I think, were finally given to one of our men on our 
slate at a date when it would have been impossible for us to construct 
a letter and mail it out. 

I argued about that point, and Mr. Gibbons said "Listen, this is a 
fight to the finish and no holds are barred." 

That is one of the reasons I am taking advantage of one of the 
holds here today. 

The Chairman. He had all the advantage then ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is correct, Senator. 

The Chairman. As a trustee, he had absolute autocratic power, 
almost, over the council, did he not ? 

Mr. Lewis. If there is anything more dominating than his position, 
I would like to know. 

The Chairman. Is that the democracy that he bragged about in 
his union? 



14502 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Lewis. I have heard democracy talked about, but I have seen 
damn little of it practiced. 

The Chairman. All right, proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. So he had the names of the delegates and sent out 
a letter to all the delegates regarding his candidacy, but he would 
not allow you and the opposition to have the names of the delegates ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. "When did you finally receive them ? 

Mr. Lewis. I think it was the day before the election. In other 
words, it was impossible for us to get a letter out. 

Mr. Kennedy. So your slate never knew who the delegates were 
who were going to participate in the election ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is right. He took a vote, by the way, of the 
executive board, and the executive board voted that we should not 
be given the names. 

Mr. Kennedy. What would possibly be the reasons that they would 
not give you the names ? 

Mr. Lewis. After all, we have a few Rasputins of the press our- 
selves. We probably could have typed out a little jazzy note and 
said a few things about Mr. Gibbons instead of him telling them the 
things himself. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever discuss your per capita dues with Mr. 
Gibbons? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. We told them that they had not paid the per 
capita tax, and he made it clear that he could pay the per capita tax 
and that would make them eligible. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever indicate that he had paid the per capita 
tax? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; he indicated that at the business session. 

Mr. Kennedy. He stated that he paid the per capita tax for local 
447? 

Mr. Lewis. In order to make them eligible, yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know how much that per capita tax 
amounted to at that time? 

Mr. Lewis. No, Senator ; I don't. 

Mr. Kennedy. Are there any records showing it was paid ? 

Mr. Lewis. I have never seen the records, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have those. Shall we put them in now ? 

The Chairman. Yes, you may put them in now. 

TESTIMONY 0E THOMAS EICKMEYER— Resumed 

The Chairman. You have been previously sworn, and you are on 
the committee staff. Did you make an examination of the records 
of this joint council to ascertain with respect to the per capita tax 
of local 447 being paid ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir, I have. 

The Chairman. What do the records reflect ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. On December 16, 1957, local 447 paid a check, 
No. 44, to joint council 13, in the amount of $1,017.50 in part payment 
of per capita tax to joint council 13. 

The Chairman. It says in part payment ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Right. 

The Chairman. All right. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14503 

Mr. Eickmeyer. On January 13, 1958, check, No. 45, to joint coun- 
cil 13, in the amount of $1,644.60, which was the remainder of the 
payment. The total payment, then, of $2,762.10. 

The Chairman. Over what period of time does that cover? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That covers from June of 1955 through Decem- 
ber of 1957. 

The Chairman. In other words, it was 2 years behind in its per 
capita tax, that local ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Two and a half. 

The Chairman. Two and a half years behind. And the tax was 
paid up 2 days before the election ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was it listed on the books as being received ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. I think the books reflect that it was received the 
15th of January, the second payment was received the 15th of Jan- 
uary. 

Mr. Kennedy. That was the day of the election. 

The Chairman. Does it show who made the payment ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; local 447 made the payment. 

Mr. Kennedy. With the trustee being Mr. Harold Gibbons? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Was the check signed by him ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the per capita payments to the inter- 
national? Had local 447 been paying per capita dues to the inter- 
national, on this local ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir; they had. That was one of the few 
expenses of the local which they were paying themselves. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had they been paying right along ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. They made intermittent payments. Which ones 
would you prefer to have me testify to ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, in 1955. Do you have a list of them? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; we have, furnished by the international. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were they paid every month during 1955, 1956, 
and 1957? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. No, sir ; they were not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were there gaps of several months when they 
weren't paying any to the international ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. For instance, for the year of 
1955, there was a payment in November to the international for a 
total of 1,205 members. This was a payment for the members for 
June, July, August, September, and October of 1955. This was paid 
in November of 1955. 

The next payment was in June of 1956, for 215 members. This 
was a payment for 214 members of May of 1956, and 1 member on 
April of 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. Then, for instance, in January of 1957, they 
paid 

Mr. Eickmeyer. $1,095. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was that to cover? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That covered 410 members in September, 1956 ; 388 
members in October 1956 ; 293 members in November 1956 ; 1 member 



14504 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

in December 1956 ; 1 member in January 1957 ; 1 member in February 
1957, and another member which we could not account for. 

Mr. Kennedy. There was one interesting payment made in 1958. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

In April of 1958 there was a payment for 286 members. This was 
composed of the following : 188 members for April of 1958 ; 7 mem- 
bers for May of 1955 ; 7 members of November 1955 ; 7 members De- 
cember of 1955 ; 7 members January 1956 ; 7 members February 1956 ; 
7 members March 1956 ; 7 members December 1956. 

Mr. Kennedy. That goes along, but for every month in which there 
was a per capita tax missing, it was made up in April of 1958, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. So the records would make it appear that the pay- 
ments had been made all along in 1955, 1956, and 1957, when, in fact, 
the payment was not made until May of 1958 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And it covered way back, for 7 members, for in- 
stance, in 1 month, to 1955 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. We received a memorandum, did we not, from the 
international ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct- 
Mr. Kennedy. Would you identify the memorandum? 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Eickmeyer. This is a memorandum which we received from 
the international made out to Harold J. Gibbons from John F. 
English, which purports to list the number of members whose per 
capita tax had been paid for each month from 1955 through May of 
1958. 

Mr. Kennedy. Does that memorandum give a list of each month of 
the per capita tax payments ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir ; it does. 

Mr. Kennedy. Does it make it appear that the per capita tax pay- 
ments had been made for 7 individuals for January and February of 
1955, for instance ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Of 1956, you mean ? 

Mr. Kennedy. 1956. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. 1956 ; yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. It makes it appear that the money had been paid 
for those individuals. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When, in fact, it was not paid until April of 1958 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. So the document is completely misleading ; is it not ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Anybody looking at that document would think that 
local 447 had been paying per capita taxes to the international each 
month for a period of 2y 2 years ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct, 

Mr. Kennedy. When, in fact, that is completely false. 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14505 

Mr. Kennedy. I would think "misleading'' describing that docu- 
ment is an understatement, 

The Chairman. The document may be made exhibit 104. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 104" for refer- 
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) 

The Chairman. He says here : 

This information was taken from the remittance statement submitted by the 
local union. 

I assume the remittance statements are statements that they submit 
along with their payments. 

Mr. Eickmeter. That is correct. They have a form, the interna- 
tional has a form. 

The Chairman. This is intended to mislead in the sense that it in- 
dicates that at each time of remittance during the past 2 years or 2% 
years, the 7 members were remitted for at the regular remittance 
period ? 

Mr. Eickmeter. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Whereas the truth is it was never paid on them 
until some time in April 1958 ? 

Mr. Eickmeyer. That is correct, 

The Chairman. In other words, they doctored this memorandum 
to try to cover up ? 

Mr. Eickmeter. That is the way it appears. 

The Chairman. Do you know who the seven are that are involved ? 

Mr. Eickmeter. I would imagine those are to pay for the officers 
for the winter months. 

The Chairman. To pay for what ? 

Mr. Eickmeter. To pay the officers for the winter months, because 
during the winter months, you will remember from yesterday, they 
don't pay dues to the local. They just did not bother paying it to 
the international. 

The Chairman. What I am trying to determine is who are these 
mysterious seven members that were not paid on all this time. Do you 
know ? 

Mr. Eickmeter. I don't know who they are. 

The Chairman. All right, If you don't know, we will see if we 
can find out. 

Mr. Kennedt. What I think you were trying to say is, or what 
this was trying to do, is to show or indicate that the seven people 
who were the officers and who participated in the election in January 
of 1958 had, in fact, been paying their dues since January 1955. So 
it shows seven people had been paying since January of 1955. There- 
fore, they would be in good standing, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Korlm and what is the other fellow's name? 

Mr. Eickmeter. Mr. Brocies. 

The Chairman. They testified they were not even members until 
a day or two before the election, is that correct ? 

Mr. Kennedt. No ; they were members, but they testified that they 
had not been paying their dues. This document would make it appear 
that they had been, and that per capita dues had been paid to the 
international. 

The Chairman. All right. 

21243— 59— pt. 38 24 



14506 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT F. LEWIS— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. When did these delegates appear? When did you 
first find out about them ? 

Mr Lewis. Well, I heard through the grapevine that they were in 
town a day or two before the election, but the first time that any of 
my group saw them or anybody else for that matter, outside of Mr. 
Gibbons' group, was the night of the business session, an hour before 
the election. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you find out where the delegates had come from 
or anything about their background ? 

Mr. Lewis. No ; nobody stated where they were from. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know they were associated with manage- 
ment ? 

Mr. Lewis. We never knew that ; no, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who had paid their transportation 
up, or where they came from ? 

Mr. Lewis. We had a lot of ideas, but we did not know for sure. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who paid their hotel bill ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir. 

TESTIMONY OE IRWIN LANGENBACHER— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. Do we have that, Mr. Langenbacher ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Yes ; we do. 

Joint council 13 paid both the travel expenses and the lost-time pay- 
ments, and local 447's books reflect that on January 23, 1958, they 
reimbursed joint council 13, $1,300 for transportation expenses of the 
officers who came up to participate in the election and $900 for lost- 
time payments to these officers. The $900 was paid by 447 on January 
29, to joint council 13. 

Mr. Kennedy. Joint council 13 had originally paid all of the bills ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. They were reimbursed by local 447 ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the total amount of the bills ? 

Mr. Langenbacher. The total amount of the 2 bills would be $2,200. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT F. LEWIS— Resumed 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you aware of that ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir ; I wasn't. I know I didn't approve it. 

The Chairman. Well, were your travel expenses, your hotel bill, and 
all of that paid while you were in attendance ? 

Mr. Lewis. I live in St. Louis, Senator, and I don't think I could 
have gotten a car token out of the council if it meant I had to get there 
to vote. 

The Chairman. You couldn't have gotten a free ride ? 

Mr. Lewis. I don't think that I could. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, at the time of the election did anybody request 
that the delegates get up and identify themselves ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, Charley Grogan, the recording secretary of the 
council. 

Mr. Kennedy. He was recording secretary ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14507 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir ; and he stood up and he asked that the delegates 
rise and he would like to ask them some questions. Mr. Gibbons ob- 
jected to that, and there were no questions asked. 

Mr. Kennedy. On what grounds % 

Mr. Lewis. That he and he alone had the right to decide whether 
that was proper or improper. That was in reference to the seating of 
these people, too. 

Mr. Kennedy. He said he was the one to make the decision ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. Why should he make the decision ? 

Mr. Lewis. These are things that we don't know about, Mr. Ken- 
nedy. This is a strange life we lead under Mr. Gibbons' direction. 
One of my delegates, Edward Goedecker, stood up and made some 
statements to Mr. Gibbons about being undemocratic, and he didn't 
get anywhere either. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Gibbons explain why ? 

Mr. Lewis. Only the fact that he and only he had the right to 
decide what was proper or what was favorable or unfavorable. 

Mr. Kennedy. So what finally happened? The delegates from 
447 were seated and cast their votes ? 

Mr. Lewis. They were seated. 

Mr. Kennedy. Their votes were put in a separate envelope, is that 
right? 

Mr. Lewis. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. To be counted only if the election was contested or 
close ? 

Mr. Lewis. In the event they were needed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Without their votes, without counting those votes, 
what was the result of the election ? 

Mr. Lewis. The Walla slate would have all been elected. 

Mr. Kennedy. The anti-Gibbons slate would have been elected, all 
seven of them ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And what did counting the carnival votes do ? 

Mr. Lewis. Counting the carnival votes, in spite of that, on the 
anti-Gibbons slate, Patrick Burke was elected secretary-treasurer, 
and I was elected the recording secretary, and Lester Dickens was 
elected as trustee, and William Frenner was also elected — not elected 
trustee but he was tied with one of Mr. Gibbons' men. So as it 
stands now, 3 of us were elected, and 1 of our candidates was tied 
with 1 of Mr. Gibbons' candidates. 

Mr. Kennedy. If these carnival local votes were not counted, this 
carnival local we discussed at length yesterday, had those votes not 
been counted your slate would have been all elected ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, did Mr. Hoffa send out a group of vice pres- 
idents to make an investigation of the joint council election? 

Mr. Lewis. I presume he did. 

Mr. Kennedy. You understand he did ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. And they ruled in favor of Mr. Gibbons? 

Mr. Lewis. Recently I understand they did, and I read that in 
the International Teamster magazine. I was not in attendance at the 
hearing that they conducted. 



14508 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. That was Miller from Texas; he was one of the 
individuals ? 

Mr. Lewis. I think he was. 

Mr. Kennedy. And O'Brien from Chicago ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Backus from Philadelphia ? 

Mr. Lewis. I believe that is right. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is the status at the present time ? 

Mr. Lewis. We are still in trusteeship. 

Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Gibbons is trustee ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, he is. 

Mr. Kennedy. He is running the joint council ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, I don't know how he can do that, but he is 
supposed to be running it, because we are not paying per capita tax 
to the joint council. 

Mr. Kennedy. You are not paying any more ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, we are paying in to the man that we consider was 
elected the secretary-treasurer, Mr. Patrick Burke, and a great number 
of the local unions or a number of them are paying their per capita 
tax in to Mr. Burke. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, we have had testimony here, Mr. Lewis, about 
certain acts of violence that were connected with certain Teamster 
locals who have been associated with Mr. Gibbons. This violence 
certainly does not exist for all Teamster unions, or all Teamster 
officials, or all Teamster members in the St. Louis area, does it? 

Mr. Lewis. No. Can I speak the way I feel ? I just want to tell 
you, Mr. Kennedy, and the Senators if they will be gracious enough 
to listen, I think by far and wide the average Teamster representative 
in St. Louis is sincerely dedicated to his organization. I believe if 
and when our group ever takes over the council, I think we can further 
that feeling. I don't know of any acts of violence and I don't know 
anything about Mr. Gibbons' activities other than the joint council. 

But I sincerely feel that there has been a nasty reflection made in 
St. Louis, in reference to all Teamsters, and it seems like it is a mass 
indictment and I think it is unfair, because I think that they are all, 
by a vast majority, I think are good Americans, and sincerely dedi- 
cated to the movement, and I say that sincerely. 

I am not saying that for the drama or the publicity that may come 
from that. 

The Chairman. Do you think if the men, the working people who 
pay the dues, were given an opportunity of free expression that they 
would tolerate this racketeering and this violence and the undemo- 
cratic processes that have been reflected by the testimony this com- 
mittee lias heard ? 

Mr. Lewis. Well, Senator, if you deny it for any length of time, this 
democratic process that you talk about, a lot of these people become 
somewhat complacent, and then you must encourage it to bring it up, 
to bring them up out of the doldrums that they are in, or the indiffer- 
ence that they might have in reference to the conduct of their organi- 
zation. 

The Chairman. In other words, they finally just give up ? 

Mr. Lewis. I don't know whether they give up or it is indifference 
more than anything else. It might be a pattern of a long standing. 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14509 

The Chairman. Do you think, as I say, if they had the opportunity 
to express themselves freely with democratic processes they would 
tolerate such violence ? 

Mr. Lewis. Frankly I don't think any workingman believes in vio- 
lence, and I don't think that he wants to tolerate it. 

The Chairman. If given the opportunity, where he could act freely 
and independently of pressure, and coercion and intimidation, you 
don't think that he would tolerate it ; do you ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, I don't think any good American would. 

The Chairman. I just can't believe and it is shocking to me that the 
rank and file of the Teamsters Union tolerate and condone and approve 
of the corruption that has been exposed by this committee, and of the 
tactics and practices used in controlling elections. I just can't believe 
that the rank and file would approve of it if they could prevent it, if 
they had any way of preventing it. You know them better than I do. 
What do you say about it ? 

Mr. Lewis. I agree with you, Senator. 

The Chairman. You say we indict all of labor. I don't want to 
indict all of labor, and I don't want to indict the Teamsters who work 
and who are honest and decent Americans. That is what we are trying 
to do here, point out, find out and point out where the rascality is, in 
the hope that the Congress will have courage enough to enact some 
legislation to protect the working people of this country against such 
exploitation. I think the rank and file members ought to assert them- 
selves to the very limit of their power, and give the full strength and 
power of their support to any movement to clean this scum off the labor 
movement. 

It ought to be removed. If it isn't removed, it is becoming daily a 
greater menace to decent society in this country and to law and order 
and to the democratic processes of Government. Is there anything 
further ? 

Senator Curtis. Mr. Lewis, do you know anything about the politi- 
cal operations under Mr. Gibbons' leadership there in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Lewis. I don't know too much about them ; only I don't like 
them. 

Senator Curtis. Do you know anything about the endeavor called 
Operation Penland ? 

Mr. Lewis. I don't think so. Do you have reference to a State 
senator ? 

Senator Curtis. Yes. 

Mr. Lewis. I don't know too much about that. 

Senator Curtis. Was that Mr. Gibbons' undertaking? 

Mr. Lewis. I presume that Mr. Penland is a member of his or- 
ganization. I don't meddle in politics, and my organization is com- 
pletely free of any political actions. 

Senator Curtis. I was asking you if you knew how it was done 
under Mr. Gibbons' leadership. 

Mr. Lewis. I wouldn't know or I couldn't honestly say, Senator. 

Senator Curtis. You don't know about the contributions ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir ; I don't. 

Senator Curtis. That is all. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the association that Mr. Gibbons and 
Mr. Baker and certain others have had with some of the gangsters 
and hoodlums in St. Louis ? Could you make any comment on that ? 



14510 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Lewis. I know nothing about it, Mr. Kennedy, to be very frank 
with you. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is that also unusual, even in the Teamster hierarchy, 
in labor-union officials ? 

Mr. Lewis. I can only speak for myself, that I don't associate with 
these people, and I have no reason to associate with them, and I 
wouldn't last long in my organization if I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you say that was generally true of the 
Teamsters' leadership ? 

Mr. Lewis. No, sir; I couldn't say that. I couldn't make a state- 
ment like that; honestly I couldn't, other than what I have read in 
the newspapers. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were in the service yourself ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. For how long ? 

Mr. Lewis. 30 months overseas. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you with ? 

Mr. Lewis. Signal Corps. 

Mr. Kennedy. Where did you serve ? 

Mr. Lewis. In the African and Italian campaigns. 

Mr. Kennedy. You got out of the service when ? 

Mr. Lewis. In the latter part of 1945. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is all. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Gene Walla. 

The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence given be- 
fore this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Walla. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ELMER E. WALLA, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 
JEROME F. DUGGAN 

The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your 
business or occupation, please. 

Mr. Walla. My name is Elmer E. Walla, and I am president and 
business manager of the Building and Construction Local 682. My 
residence is No. 7 Fountain Court, Florissant, Mo. 

The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Duggan. Jerome F. Duggan, 705 Chestnut Street, St. Louis 1, 
Mo. 

The Chairman. Thank you. 

All right; proceed. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Walla, how long have you been with the 
Teamsters Union ? 

Mr. Walla. As an officer or as a member ? 

Mr. Kennedy. As a member. 

Mr. Walla. I joined the Teamsters Union in the latter part of 1935. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then you were in the Teamsters Union for how 
long then ? 

Mr. Walla. Since 1935, with the exception of a couple of years 
out for service. 

Mr. Kennedy. You were in the service during what period of time ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14511 

Mr. Walla. From May of 1941 until July of 1943. 

Mr. Kennedy. In what branch ? 

Mr. Walla. Army engineers ; Corps of Engineers. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then you returned to the Teamsters Union 
then? 

Mr. Walla. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing ? 

Mr. Walla. Driving a truck. 

Mr. Kennedy. You became an officer? 

Mr. Walla. Yes; approximately in March I became an appointed 
officer of 1953. 

Mr. Kennedy. And then what local was that ? 

Mr. Walla. That was in local 682. 

Mr. Kennedy. Were you elected president of that local ? 

Mr. Walla. I was elected president and business manager in Sep- 
tember, and I was nominated and elected by acclamation without 
opposition. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, how many members does 682 have ? 

Mr. Walla. Now, you mean % 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Walla. Approximately 3,200. 

Mr. Kennedy. How many did you have at that time ? 

Mr. Walla. In 1953, when I took it over, we had approximately 
1,500 to 1,600 members. 

Mr. Kennedy. What are the assets of local 682 ? 

Mr. Walla. Now, you mean? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Walla. Well, conservatively speaking, the physical and finan- 
cial assets are approximately a quarter of a million dollars. 

Mr. Kennedy. They have grown since the time you took oyer? 

Mr. Walla. That is what we have now, and when I took it over 
the local was practically broke, after a long and disastrous strike. It 
was broke financially, and in debt to the tune of about $70,000. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Walla, we have had the testimony here 
regarding the fact you were running for president of joint council 
13"against Mr. Harold Gibbons; is that correct? 

Mr. Walla. That is ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. We have had the testimony regarding Local 447 
of the Carnival Workers' Union. Had you ever considered 447 as 
a member of the joint council 13 ? 

Mr. Walla. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did you understand Mr. Karsh was at that 
time? 

Mr. Walla. Mr. Karsh to my knowledge was an organizer who was 
attempting to organize the circus and carnival workers. 

Mr. Kennedy. Now, in May of 1955, you presided over a meeting 
in which the minutes show that Local 447 of the Carnival Workers 
was seated and passed upon by the body and seated in joint council 
13. 

Mr. Walla. There are two things, there, Mr. Kennedy. I think 
in checking you will find that the recording secretary did not make 
those minutes out, No. 1, and No. 2, those minutes are inaccurate. 



14512 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

I did not seat Mr. Karsh as a delegate to the joint council 13. I in- 
troduced him to the body of delegates as a visitor, and an organizer 
of the carnival workers and circus workers. 

Mr. Kennedy. So these minutes are not correct? 

Mr. Walla. No, sir, they are not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did anybody ever consider local 447 to your knowl- 
edge as a member of joint council 13 ? 

Mr. Walla. To my knowledge, not even Harold Gibbons con- 
sidered 447 an affiliate of joint council 13. 

Mr. Kennedy. Had anybody actively participated on behalf of 
local 447 in any of the meetings of the joint council ? 

Mr. Walla. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was the first time you heard 447 was going 
to be a member of joint council 13 ? 

Mr. Walla. It was approximately a week or so, or a week or 10 
days or so, before the nominations of officers during the month of 
December of 1957. In a meeting when we were notified that Mr. 
Gibbons was going to vote local 447, and then in a heated discussion 
between myself and several people who were in the room we de- 
manded an explanation of why he was going to vote 447, when 447 
was not a member of the Teamsters Joint Council 13 and was not 
even within the geographical structure or area of joint council 13. 

Mr. Gibbons said they were and he would definitely vote them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate that they had officers at that time? 

Mr. Walla. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate who the delegates were? 

Mr. Walla. No, sir; and we asked him, and I myself asked him 
and several of my people and we were told that he had the record of 
them. We asked for them and he said we would have to get them 
the same way he got them. 

Mr. Kennedy. Which was how? 

Mr. Walla. I don't know. 

Mr. Kennedy. When was it that you first learned who the delegates 
were going to be? 

Mr. Walla. I didn't quite understand. 

Mr. Kennedy. When did you learn who the delegates for 447 were 
going to be? 

Mr. Walla. Approximately 1 hour before the election, the night 
of the election, in the business meeting, and he had these 7 delegates 
there. Upon questioning by myself, and several of the delegates of 
the officers who were on my slate running for office, we demanded to 
know who they were, and after quite a bit of argument they were 
then introduced, and that was the first time that we had any knowl- 
edge who the officers were, and what they looked like, or where they 
were from. 

Mr. Kennedy. What about the delegates generally from the other 
locals? Did you try to get a list of the delegates from the various 
locals ? 

Mr. Walla. Yes, sir, I did. I asked Mr. Gibbons for a list of the 
delegates several times, and Mr. Gibbons denied the list to me. 

Mr. Kennedy. On what grounds? 

Mr. Walla. He never gave any grounds or reasons why he did 
things. 

Mr. Kennedy. He just said you couldn't have it? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14513 

Mr. Walla. That is correct. 

Mr. Kennedy. He sent out a letter to all of the delegates ? 

Mr. Walla. He sent out a letter to all of the delegates including 
myself, and the officers who were candidates on my slate telling about 
the virtues of himself, and what he had accomplished as president of 
the joint council 13 and so on and so forth. 

Mr. Kennedy. Did you know if local 447 had been paying any per 
capita taxes to the joint council ? 

Mr. Walla. To my knowledge, I never heard of local 447 paying 
any per capita tax, or being affiliated or attending any meetings, 
with the exception of the one night when Karsh had come in. I 
think that I would know that, because I was the vice president under 
the trusteeship of the joint council 13. 

Mr. Kennedy. And you knew nothing about it ? 

Mr. Walla. No, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you protested about seating or counting the 
votes of local 447, what was Mr. Gibbons reaction to that? 

Mr. Walla. Well, the protest started several days before the actual 
election. Mr. Gibbons called me into his office with I believe 2 or 3 
of the candidates on my slate, and asked me what I thought of the 
idea of selecting a Federal judge, or a municipal judge, and he would 
do the same thing, and we would have them at the meeting the 
night of the election to act as observers in the clean democratic way 
of elections that would be performed in joint council 13. 

(At this point, the following members were present: Senators Mc- 
Clellan and Curtis. ) 

I refused. I told Mr. Gibbons, "You as a trustee have never taken 
any of us into consideration. If you want the judges here, you go 
ahead and invite them." 

The night of the election, he did. There were three judges there. 
They were State municipal judges to act as observers. During the 
course of the meeting, the protest came up several times again about 
the voting of the carnival workers' delegates. I, myself, took the floor 
and questioned Mr. Gibbons on how he was going to vote these people. 
He said "They will vote. Their ballots will be put in an envelope. I 
will hold the envelope to be used at my discretion." 

I said "Mr. Gibbons, you always preach democracy, equality for all. 
Do you think you are giving these seven men, even though I contend 
they don't have the right to vote, a fair shake; where is the secret 
ballot election, when they are going to vote on a ballot and give it to 
you to open it at your discretion ? 

"They have no discretion at this election. If you are going to vote 
them, put them in the ballot box with the rest of the votes." 

Mr. Gibbons at that time told me "Well, Mr. Walla, if you will go 
on record at this time that you will not contest this election, I will 
put them in the box." 

Well, I am an ex-truckdriver, and I may not have too much sense, 
but I did not leave my brains home that night and I told him that. 
Consequently, the ballots were voted, they were put in an envelope, 
they were put in Mr. Gibbons' pocket. At the end of the election, 
when myself and my slate had won the election, he then produced 
the ballots which offset three of my people, including myself, in the 
election. 



14514 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Mr. Kennedy. Initially, you would have won by one vote, not 
counting them? 

Mr. Walla. I had won by two votes. 

Mr. Kennedy. What was the number ? 

Mr. Walla. 69 to 71, the 7 votes swung it over where it gave him 
a 6 vote majority or a 5 vote majority. 

Mr. Kennedy. When you protested about having 447 participate 
at all in this election, what was his reaction to that, even before the 
final meeting? 

Mr. Walla. In what respect, sir ? 

Mr. Kennedy. When you said that 447 should not be seated and 
shouldn't participate, did he indicate who was going to make that 
decision ? 

Mr. Walla. He definitely said he would be the sole judge, that 
he was the trustee not only over the council but also over 447, and he 
would be the sole judge in producing these people and having them 
vote. 

Mr. Kennedy. Is there anything else regarding that election that 
we don't know about ? 

Mr. Walla. No. I think you have pretty near covered the whole 
thing, Mr. Kennedy. If there is anything else that I have probably 
forgotten, it is in the record that was taken by the three international 
vice presidents in our appeal of the election. 

The Chairman. Is it on appeal now ? 

Mr. Walla. Senator, I have appealed it. My group has appealed 
it. We have never received an answer from the international telling 
us one way or the other of a decision. I read in the last Teamsters 
Journal of last month where, in a short article there, the decision 
had been made, and the 6 officers were named, 3 from Gibbons' slate, 
3 from my slate, and 1 to be at a runoff at a later date. But as far as 
receiving an answer to my appeal directly, I never have. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who would the appeal go to ? 

Mr. Walla. The appeal was sent to the international, to the office 
of the international president, Mr. Hoffa, and also an appeal was 
made to the international secretary-treasurer, Mr. John English. 

Mr. Kennedy. Has the board of monitors indicated some interest 
in it? 

Mr. Walla. The only thing that I have heard from the board of 
monitors, when this thing was appealed, it was my understanding — 
as you know, I have counsel here for the reason that Mr. Duggan repre- 
sents my entire slate of candidates in this appeal. 

We understood, or thought we understood, that the makeup of the 
monitors was that we would exhaust the remedies and the prerogatives 
of our international constitution through our general executive board, 
and then, before a decision was made there, that the monitors them- 
selves would enter into the picture. 

Consequently, we never appealed directly to the monitors. As I 
understand, the monitors have informed the international to hold up 
on a decision of this joint council 13 election until they issued a deci- 
sion themselves. That is all the information I have. 

Mr. Kennedy. Has a representative of Mr. Gibbons, one of those 
who ran on Mr. Gibbons' slate, called some of you in and said that you 
should all send a letter to the monitors, asking them to keep out of the 
matter ? 



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 14515 

Mr. Walla. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kennedy. Who did that ? 

Mr. Walla. Mr. Edward Dorsey, the secretary-treasurer of Team- 
sters Local 618. 

Mr. Kennedy. What did he suggest to you ? 

Mr. Walla. Well, he called me and asked me if my people would 
meet with him, that he wanted to discuss the election situation. 

I told him that I did not think they would, because Mr. Dorsey is 
not held in too high a regard by people on my slate and people in our 
group. 

So he asked me if I would arrange to get them there, and I said I 
would, that I would get them in. At that particular time, I had a 
broken ankle and was in a cast. 

One of my officers who was a candidate on my slate, Mr. Burke, was 
in the hospital having a kidney removed. I told him I would get the 
balance of them in there, if they would pay attention and which they 
did. We appeared in his office, and Mr. Dorsey asked us if we would 
sign a form that he had drawn up in regard to — I can't recall ver- 
batim, but the gist of it was to tell the monitors to stay out of town, 
we wanted nothing to do with them. 

I refused to sign it, and all of my officers who were candidates on 
my slate refused to sign it. 

Mr. Kennedy. What is your reaction to the way this matter was 
handled, Mr. Walla? 

Mr. Walla. Well, my reaction is, as I said a minute ago. I have 
been a teamster for a long time. I have been an officer for a very 
short time. It has always been within the structure of the Team- 
sters, it is the only international, the only union I have ever belonged 
to, to handle your grievances through your executive boards, first 
your local executive board, then your joint council, then your inter- 
national, and I appealed following that. 

I don't like particularly what I have heard that is the decision, 
but I don't know what else I can do about it. 

Mr. Kennedy. What I am talking about is what is your reac- 
tion to the way this election was handled and the voting of local 
447? 

Mr. Walla. I think it was as crooked as anything could possibly 
be. 

Senator Curtis. When did you file your appeal petition with the 
international ? Do you remember ? 

Mr. Duggan. Senator, approximately the 28th of January, I would 
say. Within about 13 days after the election. Possibly sooner but 
not any later. 

Senator Ctirtis. 1958 ? 

Mr. Duggan. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. So that that may be sworn testimony, you better 
let the witness answer. 

Senator Curtis. Is that your best information ? 

Mr. Walla. May I talk to my counsel, please. 

The Chairman. Yes, you may confer. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Walla. Sir, as near as I can recall, it was in the latter part 
of the month of January 1958 we filed the protest and a grievance to 
the international. 



14516 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 

Senator Curtis. Now I want to ask you : Under Mr. Gibbons' lead- 
ership, did you get full and frequent reports on the financial opera- 
tions of the joint council ? 

Mr. Walla. Once in a great while. We very seldom ever got finan- 
cial reports. 

Senator Curtis. Did he e