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INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
HEARINGS
BEFOHB THE
SELECT COMMITTEE
ON IMPEOPER ACTIYITIES IN THE
LABOE OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
AND
EIGHTY-SIXTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
PURSUANT TO SENATE RESOLUTIONS 74 AND 221, 85TH CONGRESS
AND SENATE RESOLUTION 44, 86TH CONGRESS
DECEMBER 4 AND 9, 1S58; FEBRUARY 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, AND 18, 1959
PART 46
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the
Labor or Management Field
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
HEARINGS
( ^ i / ^ BEFORE THE
'^J^^ SELECT COMMITTEE
ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
AND
EIGHTY-SIXTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
PURSUANT TO SENATE RESOLUTIONS 74 AND 221, 85TH CONGRESS
AND SENATE RESOLUTION 44, 86TH CONGRESS
DECEMBER 4 AND 9, 1958; FEBRUARY 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, AND 18, 1959
PART 46
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the
Labor or Management Field
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
36751 WASHINGTON : 1959
Boston Public Library
Superintendent of Documenta
IVIAY 1 1 ]%3
DEPOSITORY
SELECT COMMITTEE ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR OR
MANAGEMENT FIELD
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas, Chairman
KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota, Vice Chairman
JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts BARRY OOLDWATER, Arizona
SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North Carolina CARL T. CURTIS, Nebraska
FRANK CHURCH, Idaho HOMER E. CAPEHART, Indiana
Robert F. Kennedy, Chief Counsel
Ruth Young Watt, Chief Clerk
It
CONTENTS
The Coin-Operated Amusement and Vending Machine Industry
Page
Appendix 1 6925
Testimony of —
Amalfitano, John Joseph 16852
Bernofr, Charles 16887, 10920
Blatt, Theodore... 16646
Bellino, Carmine S... 16488
Blumet ti, Joseph 1 650 1
Cammarata, Frank 16467
Caggiano, James 16700, 1 671 6
Carelly, Larry 16484
Catena, Gerardo Vito 16568
Caruso, John R 16846, 1 6851
Cofini, Robert J 16684, 16714
Cohen, Al 16798
Corrigan, Joseph 16642, 16674, 16822
Constandy, John P 16557, 16749, 16764, 16803, 16847, 16880
DeGrandis, Joseph 16877, 16884
Denver, Albert S 16746, 16750
Gallo, Joseph . 16830, 16841
Gallo, Lawrence 16836, 16841
Genove.se, J, Michael 16597
Gilbert, Abraham 10720
Goldbert, Mrs. Svlvia 16800, 16802
Gottlieb, Benjamin 16667, 16675
Green, Milton 16660
Guerci, Charles 16783
Hackmeyer, Capt. Richard J 16576
Hammergren, Milton J 16530
lo vine, Joseph A 1 6868
Jacot ), Eugene 1 6858
Jacob, Herbert 1 6858
Javors, Sol 10806
Jordan, Cvril T 16838
Kaplan, Arthur G 16470, 16513, 16594
Kasper, Eli 16686
Kearney, Joseph A 16564
Kelly, James P 16802
King, Rufus 16549
Kolibash, George 16728
LaRocco, Joseph 16763, 16768
Lichtman, Charles 16625, 16626, 16643
May, Walter R 16625, 16801
McCann, James G 16775
Mishel, Irving 16894, 16905, 16907
Mooney, Lt. James S 16679
Morris, Harold 1 6768
Nelson, Capt. Walter G 16603
O'Brien, Thomas 16904, 16909
Patriarca, Ravmond 16608, 16618
Parker, Sonny 10793
Pearl, Mortimer B 16786
Salardino, Joseph 16599
Sammartino, Joseph 1 6484
Saul, Sidnev 16817
Vladeck, Stephen C 16734
Vitale, John 16585
Willse. Sherman S 16889, 16905
Zito, Frank 16588, 16596
ni
IV CONTENTS
EXHIBITS
Introduced Appears
on page on page
1. Statement to the employer with respect to amount of dues
that should be paid 16485 (*)
2. Article in the Youngstown Vindicator, December 8, 1958.. 16495 (*)
3. Transcript of proceedings before Hon. James C. Connell,
judge, in the District Court of the United States for the
Northern District of Ohio, Eastern Division, Thursday,
November 13, 1958 16496 (*)
4 Chart, pattern of national distribution in the coin machine
industry 16516 16925
4A Chart, pattern of local distribution in the coin machine
industry 16518 16926
4B Chart showing eflfect of operators' association on local
■ distribution 16520 16927
4C Chart showing effect of association-union collusion on local
distribution 16524 16928
5 A. Photograph of Sammy Tocco and Angelo Meli 16542 (*)
53 Photograph of Sammy Tocco and Angelo Meli pitching
horseshoes 16543 (*)
5C. Photograph of the Distributors Club 16543 (*)
5D. Photograph of Al Mendes and William Bufalino 16543 (*)
6E'. Photograph of Al Mendes and William Bufalino 16543 (*)
6. Appendices to statement of Rufus King 16550 (*)
7. Letter dated July 28, 1948, addressed to A.M.I. Phono-
graphs, Chicago, 111., from Frank Zito, Modern Distribut-
ing Co. 16592 16929
7A. Letter dated July 31, 1948, addressed to Franlc Zito, Modern
Distributing Co., from Michael Spagnola, Automatic
Phonograph Distributing Co 16594 16930
7B. Letter dated September 15, 1948, addressed to Frank Zito,
Modern Distributing Co., Springfield, 111., from Michael
Spagnola, Automatic Phonograph Distributing Co 16594 16931
8. Letter dated February 26, 1951 addressed to W. S. Divin-
nell, Minneapolis Securities Corp., from Michael Spag-
nola, Automatic Phonograph Distributing Co 16595 16932
9. List of individuals associated with the New York phase of -,
the select committee's investigation, together with New
York unions and associations 16626 (*)
10. Check No. 1147, dated January 11, 1952, payable to United
Coin Machine Union in the amount of $2,000, drawn by
local 222 16633 16933
11 Photograph of Lawrence Centore, known as "Blackie,"
bearing the number 72059, New York City Police 16642 (*)
llA. Police record of Lawrence Centore. 16643 (*)
12. Affidavit of Jack Altman 16645 (*)
13. Photograph of Ernest Rupolo, known as "Ernie the Hawk"
bearing the number 77947, New York City Police 16674 (*)
13A Criminal record of Ernest Rupolo, alias "Ernie the Hawk". 16674 (*)
14! Charter for Local Union No. 465 dated June 25, 1951 16707 (*)
15, Blank contract form for agreement between International
Union of Electrical, Radio, & Machine Workers, Local
465 and members of the Game Association 16710 (*)
16A-C. Complaint slips 16723 (*)
16D-F. Requests for information as to the disposition of the
cases mentioned in the complaint slips 16725 (*)
17. Statement of Music Operators of New York, Inc., sub-
mitted to the Senate Select Committee on Improper
Activities in the Labor or Management Field 16746 (*)
18 Contract between Music Operators of New York, Inc., and
Local 1690, RCIA 16750 (*)
19A. Letter dated September 10, 1956, addressed to "Dear Joe,"
signed by Al Cohen 10766 (*)
19B. Letter dated September 12, 1956, addressed to Al Cohen,
signed by Joseph Lallocco 16766 (*)
•May be found in the flies of the select committee.
CONTENTS
EXHIBITS— Continued
Introduced Appears
on page on page
19C. Charter issued to Electrical Equipment and Fabrication
Employees Union, Local 531, dated September 20, 1958. 1G766 (*)
20. Photograph of Fred GiovanoUi bearing the number 316100,
New York City Police 16788 (*)
21. Photof^raph of the office .store headquarters of Local 531 16792 (*)
22. Cards issued to Sonnv Parker for picketing purposes 16796 (*)
23. Letter dated August "14, 1957, addressed to Mr. Al Cohen,
Local 531 UIU, signed by Joseph LaRocco, United In-
dustrial Unions 16802 16934
24. Document, Supreme Court of the State of New York,
opinion in Music Operators of New York, Inc., v. Pearl,
dated October 7, 1957 16806 (*)
25. Petition dated August 31, 1950, addressed to William Evans,
president, Federated Service Workers Union 16811 (*)
26. Minutes of a meeting at Foffe's Restaurant, dated Septem-
ber 24, 1957, and signed by Sol Javors 16812 16935
27. Letter dated January 2, 1957 to Federated Service Workers
Union, signed by Albert Gallo 16814 (*)
28. Letter dated October 16, 1957, addressed to Federated
Services Workers Union and signed by Biagio Latriano._ 16815 (*)
29. Photograph of Ernest Filocomo, bearing the number 223684,
New York City Police 16822 (*)
29A. New York Citv Police Department criminal record of
Ernest Filocomo 16823 (*)
30. Photograph of Charles Panarella, bearing the number
191797, New York City Police 16826 (*)
30A. Photograph of Anthony Tuzio, bearing the number 72217,
New York City PoHce 16826 (*)
30A-1. New York City Police Department criminal record of
Charles Panarella 16827 (*)
30A-2. New York City Police Department criminal record of
Anthony Tuzio 16827 (*)
31. Photograph of Biagio Latriano 16854 (*)
31A. Photograph of Biagio Latriano lying dead in front of an
apartment house 16854 (*)
32. Charter from Federated Service Workers Union of America
Cigarette and Coin Vending Machine Employees Union,
Local 19 16856 (*)
33. Photograph of a picket in front of a restaurant 16862 (*)
34. Agreement between Nu-Way Phono and Caruso's Restau-
rant, dated July 13, 1956 16863 (*)
34A. Rush order, Economy Vending Service, Inc., for a new
Wurlitzer outfit 16864 (*)
34B. Rush order, Economy Vending Service, Inc., for a Smoke-
shop cigarette machine 16864 (*)
35. Certified copj' of certificate of incorporation of United Coin
Machine Operators of New York, Inc., dated January 17,
1958 16866 (*)
35A. A notice to "Fellow Operators" on United Coin Machine
Operators of New York, Inc., letterhead, dated January
27, 1958 16866 (*)
36. Minutes of United Coin Machine Operators meetings dated
January 29, 30, February 18, 28, and March 12, 1958-. 16866 (*)
37. Check dated March 20, 1958, payable to Station M, in the
amount of $175, drawn by United Coin Machine Opera-
tors of New York 16867 16936
37A. Request for information on Albert Gallo, made by Robert J.
Cofini 16867 16937
37B. Calling card. Station "M" Inc., Peter M. Margules 16867 16938
37C. Invoice on the Station M blank, dated March 1, 1958, for
repairs on a 1956 Buick Roadmaster amounting to a total
of $376.02 16867 (*)
38. Labels, vending machines. Local 266, Teamsters, for the
year 1958 16880 (*)
•May be found in the flies of the select committee.
VI
CONTENTS
EXHIBITS— Continued
Introduced Appears
on page on page
39. Minutes of meeting of local 266, dated December 5, 1957,
held at 799 Coney Island Avenue, Brooklyn 16880 (*)
39 A. Receipt for the purchase of a ring binder and 100 sheets of
paper for a total of $2, dated May 15, 1958, marked "'Paid"
by the Novik Press, Inc 16880 (*)
40. Contract dated January 28, 1958, between United Coin
Machine Operators of New York, Inc., and the Auto-
matic Coin Vending Machine Employees Union, Lo-
cal 266 16884 (*)
41. Contract dated May 15, 1958, between Associated Amuse-
ment Machine Operators of New York, Inc., and the
Automatic Coin Amusement Machine Emuloyees Local
Union No. 266, I. B.T 16884 (*)
42. List of individuals mentioned in hearings 16889 (*)
43. A group of slips for repayment of loans 16918 (*)
43A. Slips for repayment of loans in bulk 16919 (*)
44 A. Slip in the name of John Bananas, January 3, 1949, showing
number of payments at different times 16919 (*)
44B. Slip in the name of Little Harry showing number of payments
at different times 16919 (*)
44C. Slip in the name of Cannon Trucking Co. showing number
of payments at different times 16919 (*)
45. Letter on Regal Music Co., Inc., letterhead, dated December
28, 1950, addressed to "Dear Jay," re: "Our resolutions
for the coming year 1951" 16921 (*)
46. Letter dated September 2, 1949, addressed to Irving Mishel
signed "C. B.," Admu-al Trading Corp 16922 16939
Proceedings of —
December 4, 1958 16467
December 8, 1958 16483
February 10, 1959 16511
February 11, 1959 16585
February 12, 1959 16667
February 13, 1959 16745
February 17, 1959 16817
February 18, 1959 _ 16887
•May be found in the flies of the select committee.
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR 3IANAGEMENT FIELD
THURSDAY, DECEMBER 4, 1958
U.S. Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities
IN THE Labor or Management Field,
Washington^ D.O.
The select committee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolution
221, agreed to Januaiy 29, 1958, in the caucus room. Senate Office
Building, Senator John L. McClellan, chairman of the select com-
mittee, presiding.
Present: Senators John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas, and
John F. Kennedy, Democrat, Massachusetts.
Also present : Kobert F. Kennedy, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Adler-
man, assistant chief counsel; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel;
Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Kennedy.)
The Chairman. Call your first witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Frank Cammarata.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ? You do solemnly swear that
the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Cammarata. I do.
TESTIMONY OF FRANK CAMMARATA
The Chairman. The Chair will make this brief statement. This
testimony will be related to a subject matter that will be involved in the
next series of committee hearings as now planned. This witness would
not be available at a later date, and for that reason we are taking
his testimony at this time. Further explanation of it will be made
possibly at the conclusion of his testimony.
State your name, your place of residence, and your business or
occupation, please, sir.
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground
The Chairman. Will you pull the microphone in front of you,
please ? It is difficult to hear.
Mr. Cammar^vta. I refuse to answer on the gi-ound I might in-
criminate myself.
The Chairmx\.n. What is your name ?
]Mr. Cammarata. Frank Cammarata.
16467
16468 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chaieman. Thank you. Where do you live ?
Mr. Cammailvta. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. You are ordered and directed to answer the ques-
tion . Where do you li ve ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. Where is it?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. Do you wisli counsel? Do you desire to have an
attorney present to represent you when you testify ? Will you speak
up ? Do you ?
Again I ask you, do you desire counsel to represent you?
Mr. Cammarata. I have no counsel.
The Chairman. That was not the question. Have you undertaken
to arrange for counsel since you were notified or subpenaed to be
before the committee ?
Are you shaking your head, or what are you doing ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer any questions.
The Chairman. The witness refuses to answer the question.
Mr. Cammarata. On the ground it might incriminate myself.
The Chairman. All right. The question is, did you desire counsel,
and your answer to that, as I understand, is you refuse to answer on
the ground it might tend to incriminate you ; is that correct ?
Mr. Cammarata. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is correct, then. All right, the Chair asks
you then, have you undertaken to arrange for counsel since you were
subpenaed to be before this committee ?
Mr. Cammarata. I cannot afford to have any coimsel.
The Chairman. You can't afford to have any counsel?
What is the date of the subpena? Let the subpena served on the
witness be placed in the record at this point, with the return thereon.
(The subpena referred to follows :)
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Congress of the United States
To Frank Cammarata, Detroit, Michigan, Greeting:
Pursuant to lawful authority, you are hereby commanded to appear before
the Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management
Field of the Senate of the United States, on December 1, 1958, at 10 a.m., at
their committee room, 101 Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C., then and
there to testify what you may know relative to the subject matters under
consideration by said committee.
Hereof fail not, as you will answer your default under the pains and
penalties in such cases made and provided.
To Edward M. Jones, to serve and return.
Given under my hand, by order of the committee, this IHth day of November,
in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and fifty-eight.
(Signed) John L. McClellan,
Chairman, Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor
or Management Field.
(Service:)
November 24, 1958.
I made service of the within subpena by personal service the within-named
Frank Cammarata, at 3770 East Jefferson, Detroit, Mich. (Office of the District
Director Walter A. Sahli) Immigration and Naturalization Service, at 3 p.m., on
the 24th day of November 1958.
(Signed) Edward M. Jones.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16469
The Chairman. Why can't you aflord to have any counsel ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. Let the record so sliow. Then we will proceed.
What is your occupation or business?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. You are ordered and directed to answer the
question.
Mr. Cammar.\ta. I might incriminate myself.
The Chairman. I didn't understand you. Wiat is your occupa-
tion or business ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground that I might in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. On the ground you might incriminate yourself?
I am trying to be helpful, and I want to get the record clear.
Mr. Cammarata. I can't think of the English.
The Chairman. That is all right. The Chair is trying to help you
make your statement as you want to make it. I am not trying to trip
you. I am trying to make the record clear.
As I understand you, you refuse to answer the question as to your
business or occupation on the ground that it might tend to incriminate
you.
Mr. Cammarata. Under the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. And the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Cammarata. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right, we have them both in there now, if there
is any difference.
Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr, Kennedy. What has been your source of income, Mr. Cam-
marata, over the period of the past 4 years ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. On what grounds ?
Mr. Cammarata. It might incriminate myself, under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Cammarata, you have been in this country at
least since 1922, because you were arrested for armed robbery in 1922
in Detroit, Mich. I have had a conversation with you downstairs in
which you understood me very well, and your accent was much better.
You hardly had any accent at that time.
Now, could you tell us why you are not able to understand these
questions, and why you have such an accent when you are appearing
before this committee?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. It is all an act you are putting on, is it not, Mr.
Cammarata?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. On what ground ?
Mr. Cammarata. On the ground it might incriminate myself under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. As far as not being able to afford an attorney, you
have plenty of money, do you not, Mr. Cammarata ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
16470 IMPROPER ACTrV'ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You built a house for yourself out in Ohio in 1954
durino- the period of time you yourself were in Jackson State Peniten-
tiary in Michigan. • i . •
Mr. Cammaii.\ta. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself . ^^^.^r T-. J j-^U
Mr. Kennedy. And then you bought a brandnew 1957 h orcl at the
end of 1957, while you were in the Jackson State Penitentiary. Where
did you get the money for that ? • • v
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground that it might
incriminate myself. . .
Mr. Kj:nnedy. Mr. Chairman, as you pointed out at the beginning,
this witness is being called in connection with the jukebox operation
and vending machines, and as he is not giving us too much informa-
tion, I would like to call a member of the staff to give a little of Mr.
Cammarata's background, and his connections with the vending ma-
chine operation, and then perhaps we can predicate some questions
based on that.
The Chairman. All right, come around.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kaplan.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kaplan. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR G. KAPLAN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
present employment.
Mr. Kaplan. My name is Arthur Kaplan. I reside in Portland,
Oreg., and I am an assistant counsel to this committee.
The Chairman. Have you made an investigation and participated
in an investigation of the jukebox and vending machine industry ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir ; I have.
The Chairman. In the course of that investigation, have you con-
tacted this witness, Mr. Cammarata ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir ; we have.
The Chairman. Have you made other investigations with respect
to his participation in the operation, directly or indirectly, of the in-
dustry of jukeboxes and vending machines ?
Mr. KJ^PLAN. Yes, sir ; we have.
The Chairman. And also with respect to the infiltration of that
industry by elements that operated in an improper mamier ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. In the course of that investigation, have you also
found some elements of labor or labor representatives that have par-
ticipated in the organization or operation of that industry in certain
areas ?
Mr. Kaplan. Very clearly, sir, yes.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Kaplan will testify just on Mr.
Frank Cammarata. When we later get into this investigation, he
will have more detailed information.
The Chairman. The Chair was just layino^ a background for the
interrogation of Mr. Kaplan, and also the witness, Mr. Cammarata.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16471
Mr. KJENNEDY. We will go into more detail on the operation of the
industry.
But now, Mr. Kaplan, would you give us the information that you
have regarding Mr. Cammarata's association with the coin-operated
machines.
Mr. IvAPLAN. Yes, sir. If I mi^ht just sketch a little of the back-
ground— while we were investigating in Detroit, we discovered that
there, as in some other places, certain distributors of jukeboxes were
having a great deal of trouble in selling their machines.
The Chairman. That is, the manufacturer or the distributor of
the boxes was having trouble making sales ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir, the distributor of the box, who had the
franchise for the Detroit area. The same distributor also had the
franchise for the Ohio area.
Mr. Kennedy. "VVliat was the name of this ?
Mr. Kaplan. Music Systems, Inc.
Mr. Kennedy. What kind of boxes did they distribute ?
Mr. IvAPLAN. They were distributing the Seeberg phonograph;
coin-operated phonograph. This took place at a time when Seeberg
recently put out a model that was quite radical in the industry be-
cause it had a 100-record machine, which was a substantial departure,
and even from the fact this would have been a more attractive model
was the fact that the company was just selling nothing above and be-
yond any normal degree of competition with anybody else.
In rmmin^ this down, we found that this was because one of the
competing distributors, a franchise distributor for another brand of
jukebox seemed to be favored, and we found that the union in De-
troit had told many of the operators who would buy these boxes from
the Music Systems distributor, that they should not buy these music
boxes.
The Chairman. Wliat union is that ?
Mr. Kaplan. That was local 985 of the Teamsters, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Headed by whom at that time ?
Mr. Kaplan. William Bufalino was actually the business manager
at the time, and Jimmy James, who was also before the committee,
was still the titular president, but had no active direction of it for
quite a period of tme.
JMr. Kennedy. What was the name of the company that the Team-
sters were favoring ?
Mr. Kaplan. They were favoring the Wurlitzer distributor, which
at that time was the Angott Distributing Co.
Mr. Kennedy. Where is that ?
Mr. I^PLAN. In Detroit, Mich.
Mr. Kennedy. All right. Will you continue.
Mr. Kaplan. We found that in an effort to break this blockade of
new machines, that the Music Systems, Inc., attempted to subsidize a
competing union, so that if they put out their own operation or whip
company in order to force customers to buy just because they had then
set up their own company that would distribute in competition with
the operators who were not buying, at least that would get their ma-
chine out on the street.
They brought up the next CIO official and had an independent union
chartered in the State of Michigan.
Mr. Kennedy. The company itself did ?
16472 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kaplan. Well
Mr. Kennedy. The principals of the company arranged this ?
Mr. Kaplan. They arranged this, yes. They did this so that they,
too, would then be able to put a union sticker on the jukebox which
would be placed in this tavern or restaurant or wherever the location
of it was, so that local 985 could not then come in and picket it as being
nonunion.
This man came up from Ohio and formed the union.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was that ?
Mr. Kaplan. That was a man named Edward Duck.
When he was working to form this union in Detroit, however, he
used the name of Parker, and he testified then when he was interviewed
by the police, and he has since told us, that he did this in order to pro-
tect his family, because he realized that Detroit was a rough town,
and he didn't want any reprisals against his family.
He was able to get several operators who were unhappy about the
control of the industry or of the business there by local 985, and the
people affiliated with it, and I think at their second or third meeting,
which was being held at the hotel at which Mr. Duck was staying,
when they came into that meeting that evening they found several
people who were very obviously hoodlums sitting around in the lobby.
This just effectively coerced them from ever attending any further
meetings.
Shortly thereafter, Mr. Duck left, and that effort folded.
Consequently, the Music Systems, Inc., apparently had not been
successful in this attempt to break the blockade, and they then made
efforts to contact Mr. Cammarata.
They did, and he came up to Detroit, and he met with Music Sys-
tems, Inc.
Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Cammarata's background ?
The Chairman. That is this witness ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Frank Cammarata's background ?
Mr. Kaplan. Mr. Cammarata is connected both by family ties and
a long record of association with most of the notorious hoodlums in
the Detroit and Cleveland areas.
Mr. Kennedy. How many times have you been arrested, Mr. Cam-
marata?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might incrimi-
nate myself under the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Do you have his record there, Mr. Kaplan ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir ; we do.
The Chairman. Put it in the record.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been arrested approximately 18 times.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were convicted in 1927 in Windsor, Ontario,
for possession of weapons. You received a sentence of 3 years and
served 30 months ; is that correct ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Then on February 26, 1931, you were convicted of
armed robbery and sent to Jackson State Prison in Michigan?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16473
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. After that, you served about 5 years in the Jackson
State Penitentiary ; is that right?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. And then the immigi-ation authorities took action
against you, found that you had entered the country illegally, and
made arrangements for you to be deported; is that correct?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer. It might incriminate myself.
The Chairman. Are you now under orders of deportation?
Mr. Cammar^vta. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You were paroled on December 16, 1936, by the
Michigan authorities for the purpose of your being deported back to
Sicily ; is that right ?
Mr. Camjiarata. I refuse to answer.
INIr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct, also, that in 1946 the immigration
authorities discovered that shortly after your deportation
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Wait a minute. That you, in approximately 1939,
had smuggled yourself back in the country and had been hiding out
in Ohio ? Is that right ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. So you were deported in 1936. You came back in
1939 illegally, the second time, and you were in Ohio for the period
1939 to 1946, when the immigration authorities found out about it ; is
that right ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Then the Michigan State authorities sought to have
you returned to Michigan to be put back in the Jackson State Peni-
tentiary, and the Immigration Bureau started action against you to
deport you as an undesirable alien ; is that right ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. May I inquire if that action of deportation has
been in process ever since 1946 ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is right.
Then it was discovered that while you were in the country from
1939 to 1946, you never filed an income tax return; is that right?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr, Kennedy. And for some unknown reason, you were never pros-
ecuted for any tax violation from 1939 to 1946. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. And the Treasury Department allowed you to file
your returns for those years subsequent to 1949; is that right?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth.
Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us why you didn't file any tax returns
for 8 years and no criminal action was taken against you for that ?
Mr, Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
16474 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. ICennedy. Then in 1949 and 1950, again it was found that you
had filed faulty tax returns ; was it not ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth ameiidment.
Mr. Kennedy. But no criminal action was taken against you at that
time; is that right, on that, either?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. IvENNEDY. In 1953, the Michigan State authorities were suc-
cessful in bringing you back to Michigan and you were put back in
the Jackson State Penitentiary ; is that right?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Then you were released from the Jackson State
Penitentiary a short time ago, and you have now agreed to leave the
United States ; is that correct ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself .
Mr. KJENNEDY. The immigration authorities have notified you that
they will take action against you unless you leave the United States,
and you have agreed to leave the United States and expect to be out
of the country by the 10th of December ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. It is for that reason, Mr. Chairman, because he will
be out of the country, that we found it necessary to have this witness
at this time.
The Chairman. When is he due to leave ?
Mr. Kennedy. He is due to leave, I think, between the 8th and 10th
of December, which is the first of next week.
It is my understanding that you are going down to Cuba; is that
right, Mr. Cammarata ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You are going to set up a gambling establishment
in Cuba and operate from there ?
Mr, Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. It was with this background information, INIr. Chair-
man, the information tliat was known about him, that this company
sought his help and assistance in Detroit.
What year was it — 1949 ?
Mr. Kaplan. 1950.
Senator Kennedy. I wonder if it would be possible for the com-
mittee to obtain from the Internal Revenue, from the Treasury De-
partment, their explanation of the leniency shown to tliis witness, in-
cluding all correspondence from all pei*sons who might have been in-
volved in an attempt to persuade the Treasury Department not to
take action against him for failure to make an income tax report for
those 8 years.
The Chairman. I think the committee should be able to get that
information. The Chair was about to remark, though I was waiting
until wo had the record completed, that these instances — and this is
not. the only one, according to my observation — these instances where
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16475
the racketeer, gangsters, tliugs, crooks, are able, for some unexplained
reason to avoid prosecution for violation or ignoring of the revenue
statutes of this country, the income tax law, have become a source
of concern to the law-abiding citizens of this country.
What the explanation is, I don't know. But there are too many
instances, such as this, where people definitely are in violation, people
of sliady character and reputation who are nothing more than just
thugs and gangsters and crooks, who have been in the past able to
escape prosecution, when other citizens of this country, who otherwise
may be law abiding, have penalties imposed against them.
The connnittee will undertake. Senator Kemiedy, to procure a full
report and such documentary evidence as may be on fde regarding this
particular case.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. I might say, Mr. Chairman, I know Senator Wil-
liams of Delaware attempted at one time to try to get the report on
this and has been miable to do so.
The Chairman. The Treasury Department, the Internal Kevenue
Bureau, and the Justice Department, possibly, should give an ex-
planation to this committee, the Congress and the countiy as to why
a case like this does not receive more vigorous attention.
Proceed.
Mr, Kennedy. Now, would you tell us what happened when the
meeting up in Detroit occurred, and what Mr. Cammarata was sup-
posed to accomplish?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Cammarata attended a meeting with two of the officers of the
company and also with an operator from the Detroit area who was
closely associated and affiliated with the head of the Teamstei*s local
in that area.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wlio was that ?
Mr. Kaplan. That was Vincent Meli, who is also known as Big
Vince. There are two of them here. Vincent Meli is a nephew of
Angelo Meli, and he has been in the jukebox business ever since he
got out of the Army in 1946. This w^as the same time that Mr. Buf-
alino was also in the jukebox business as a employer, as, himself, a
distributor of Wurlitzer machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Buf alino is also married into the Meli family ?
Mr. Kaplan. Mr. Buf alino married Vincent Meli's sister ; yes, sir.
Cammarata met with Vincent Meli on the premise of using systems
and they conversed in Italian or Sicilian.
The essence of the conversation that was reported to us was that
Mr. Cammarata had told Vincent that he should be nice to these
people and not give them trouble. Soon thereafter the music systems
appeared to be selling their boxes.
The Chairman. Do you have any information of a payoff in the
transaction ?
Mr. Kaplan. No, sir ; we do not at this time.
Mr. Kennedy. Actually, because of the relationship that exists in
this kind of an operation, it would not be necessary for a payment of
money, necessarily, would it ?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, not between Frank and Vincent. There might
necessarily have been a payment between music systems and Frank.
16476 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. But as far as Frank Cammarata and Vincent Meli
were concerned, a payment would not be necessary ?
Mr. Kaplan. I would think clearly not, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kaplan, An^elo Meli, is the elder statesman of
the underworld in Detroit ; is he not ?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, he is certainly amon<r the very top few; yes, sir.
Mr. Kj^nnedy. Then these other individuals — Vincent Meli, of
course, is related to him, and then Mr. William Bufalino, the head
of the Teamster local that was causing this difficulty, was married
to his niece?
Mr, Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Frank Cammarata was related — you are
related, are you not, Mr. Cammarata, to the Licavolis? Isn't your
wife Grace Licavoli ? Is that correct ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. Why ?
Mr. Cammarata. On the ground it might incriminate myself under
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Do you mean to admit the name of the girl you
married might tend to incriminate you? Is that your admission?
Wait a minute. Speak up.
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. Do you honestly believe that if you gave the name
of the girl you married, a truthful answer
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse.
The Chairman. Wait a minute — that a truthful answer might tend
to incriminate you ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
The Chairman. On what grounds ?
Mr. Cammarata. It might incriminate myself under the fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. If I thought you were not going to be deported
promptly, I would make a record here that might cause a little atten-
tion. I think it is better to get you out of the country, than to keep you
here, if they can do that.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Grace Licavoli's brother is Pete Licavoli, who is
from Detroit and, together with Angelo Meli, were the two top gang-
sters in Detroit.
Pete Licavoli has been charged three times with anned robbery,
twice witli kidnaping, and three times with murder. Pete Licavoli's
brother, Mr. Cammarata's other brother-in-law, is now serving a life
sentence in Ohio; is he not, Mr. Kaplan? That is Thomas Licavoli?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He is now serving a life sentence in Ohio for what
charge ?
Mr. Kaplan. Murder.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't that correct, Mr. Cammarata ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kaplan. I think it might be helpful to point out that when Mr.
Cammarata appeared in Youngstown, the police immediately recog-
IJVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16477
nized the extent of his connections and what this might mean to
Youngstown.
The then chief of police, Edward Allen, wrote immediately to
Detroit to tell them that he was down there, and that he was coming
in to distribute this machine that was being blockaded in the Youngs-
town area.
Mr. Kennedy. This was another blockade?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He went up and he was able to settle the one in
Detroit, and then he came down into Ohio where there was another
blockade ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. With the same company ?
Mr. Kaplan. The same company, the same machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they call on Mr. Cammarata again ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat happened on that ?
Mr. Ivaplan. Mr. Cammarata broke the blockade. The back-
ground of it was this : They appointed an operator in that area who
was supposed to both sell and/or operate the Seeburg machines
against the opposition of the local operators who did not want to buy
the new machines.
In order to protect themselves against the then subsidized operator,
Seeburg, they had an association and formed an alliance with what
was then or what they established to be a branch of Mr. Presser's
union out of Cleveland. This was at the time that JVIr. Blumetti
shortly made his appearance.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Presser is head of the Ohio Conference of
Teamsters ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. At that time he was also head of this par-
ticular local.
Mr. Kennedy. He has appeared before the committee, IMr. Chair-
man. He declined to answer questions.
Mr. Blumetti is now head of the Youngstown local which deals in
jukeboxes?
Mr. Kaplan. It is a branch of the Cleveland local. But I think
it would be interesting to note that at that time it was an Electrical
Workers local, affiliated with the IBEW, and it was at that time
that they took their members, en masse, over to the Teamsters.
Anyway, the person that was in trying to place the Seeburg ma-
chines tried to get into the union after it became known that the
union was going to picket his locations that didn't have a union
service stamp on it, and he was refused admittance to the union.
He complained to the police. He was also subjected to a consider-,
able amount of harassment and violence, stench bombs, window break-
ing and other such. Additionally, the Seeburg distributors' repre-
sentative in that area was informed by the police that they were
dealing with a man of Cammarata's character when they first brought
him in. Nonetheless, they went forward.
Mr. Kennedy. Cammarata was brought in to help this man who
was having all these difficulties ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is right. But he had these difficulties over a
long period of time, and he then indicated to the distributor, who
36751—59 — pt. 46 2
16478 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELR
was headquartered in Cleveland, that he was going to pull out and
he would no longer take all this punishment.
They reassured him and said, "No, stay on. We are going to bring
in Frank Cammarata and your troubles will be over." He didn't
stay on anyhow. He wanted no more part of this.
Mr. Kp:nnedy. What was his name, this man in Youngstown?
Would you rather not give his name ?
Mr. Kaplan. We would rather not give his name, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Let's see if I can get it straight. Was this indi-
vidual in Youngstown who had the distribution of the Seeburg ma-
chines having difficulty trying to get into the local of the Teamsters
Union ?
Mr. Kaplan. No. At that time it was the IBEW.
Mr. Kennedy. Ultimately the Teamsters ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He was having difficulty getting into the union.
They wouldn't allow him in the union and they were harassing him by
throwing stench bombs and by picketing his stops; is that right?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes ; that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So he indicated to the distributor that he was going
to get out, that he couldn't take it any longer ?
Mr. Kaplan. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. They told him that they would bring in Mr. Frank
Cammarata to help and assist him in trying to end the violence?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the place where you are at the present
time ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then did Mr. Cammarata come in ?
Mr. Kaplan. Mr. Cammarata came in through the medium of a
relative, Emmanuel Amato, who became the operator of these ma-
chines.
Mr. Kennedy. Emmanuel D. Amato then took over the distribution
of the Seeburg machine in this area ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is right, sir.
IMr. Kennedy. He took over from the man who had been harassed,
who then left, and this relative of Frank Cammarata then took it
over?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Was there any difficulty after that ?
Mr. Kaplan. They put 16 machines on location immediately.
Mr. Kennedy. So there was no difficulty ?
Mr. Kaplan. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that correct, Mr. Cammarat^i?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might incrimi-
nate myself, on the ground of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. How was it that you were able to stop the violence
and the difficulties that the IBEW at that time was causing in the
distribution of the Seeburg machines?
Mr. Caimivfakata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminale myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you receive a percentage of the income from
those machines at the present time?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN" THE LABOR FIELD 16479
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You set up gambling establishments in the Youn^s-
town area, and you received income from those. Do you also receive
income from these machines, the jukebox and other coin-operated
machines in the Youngstown area ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself, on the ground of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kaplan. I only want to point out that along with some of the
relationships we have established on Mr. Cammarata with the Detroit
group, that one of the reasons he is so close to JNIr. Angelo Meli, who
has frequently been alleged to be in control of the vending machine
and jukebox situation in the Detroit and surrounding areas through
his nephew, William Bufalino, stems from the fact that Frank Cam-
marata and Mr. INIeli are very close from their early infancy. They
were born in the same town in Sicily. This has been a longstanding
affiliation.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. James Hoffa also gets involved in this, does he
not, Mr. Kaplan ? That is, as far as his relationship with Mr. Cam-
marata is concerned?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Mr. Hoffa, Mr. Cammarata?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. On what ground?
Mr. Cammarata. On the ground it might incriminate myself mider
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. According to testimony, first by Mr. Robert Scott
before the committee, and then confirmed by Mr. Hoffa himself on
page 978, he interceded or attempted to intercede with the Governor
of Michigan to obtain a pardon for you after you went back to
Michigan State Penitentiary in 1953.
Is that correct ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the gromid it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us why Mr. Hoffa would intercede
on your behalf up there ? Would you tell us that ?
Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the gromid it might in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hoffa stated before this committee that he asked
Mr. Scott, who was then secretary of the Michigan Federation of
Labor, to go see the Governor and tiy to obtain a pardon for you.
Could you tell us why he would do that in view of your back-
ground ?
]Mr. Cammarata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been in touch, Mr. Cammarata, with most
of the most notorious gangsters in the United States, in Miami, Las
Vegas, Los Angeles, and New York, have you not ?
Mr. Cam]marata. I refuse to answer on the ground it might in-
criminate myself under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have some of his other associates listed, Mr.
Kaplan ?
Mr. Kaplan. We run a whole gamut of the notorious hoodlums in
the areas, the Bommaritos, the Licavolis, the Faharh gang, wliich
16480 IIUPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
has alleged control of gambling, vice, and illicit operations in Mahon-^
ing County.
Mr. Kennedy. That is Mike Faharh ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. There are frequent allegations that Mr. Cam-
marata's role is to represent the more ranking echelon which is
headquartered in Detroit and to represent their interests down there in
the Faharh gang in their control and operation of these various
activities.
Mr. Cammarata has also been associated with a man called "Fats"
Aiello, who went into the cigarette vending business just prior to this
time, and was also able to do an extensive job of putting out his
cigarette vending machines notwithstanding the difficulty a more
reputable operator would have had against the same combmation of
local people, and this because of his obvious rank and connection.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Mr. Kaplan. I might also point out that we interviewed Mr. Cam-
marata in prison in Jackson, and at that time he did speak with one
of our investigators and denied even knowing any of these people.
He did not refuse to talk to us at that time. He merely said he never
met these people and didn't know anything about them, and didn't
know what the whole thing was about.
Mr. Kennedy. But we have been able to confirm that these facts
are correct, and we will have the testimony on them ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The Chair has before him the original subpena
served on the w^itness, Mr. Cammarata. It was served on the 24th
day of November 1958. I have previously ordered that the subpena
be printed in the record.
Let the Chair ascertain something. As I understand, this witness
is supposed to be deported sometime next week ?
Mr. Kennedy. He is leaving voluntarily with the understanding
that if he didn't leave voluntarily, the immigration authorities would
be taking action against him to deport him. So he has agreed to leave
the country.
He was given the date to leave by December 1, but the immigration
authorities allowed him to extend his stay in this country in order
to make his appearance before the committee. We didn't want to
request a further stay to have him appear in January when we expect
to go into this matter in more detail.
He is going to be leaving the country the beginning of next week.
The Chairman. The Chair will place the witness under recognizance
to reappear before this committee not later than January 7, 1959, con-
ditioned by the fact that if you are out of the country by that time,
if you have deported yourself, you will not have to appear here at
that time in response to this direction and order of the committee.
If you are not out of the country by January 7, 1959, you are
ordered and directed to report back to this committee in room 101 of
the Senate Office Building, of this building, at 10 a.m. on that date.
You will remain under the jurisdiction of the committee subject to
these orders until such time as you deport yourself from this country,
or until that date, whichever is earlier. If you have not left the
country by that time, you will report back to this committee on that
date.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16481
Do you understand it ?
Mr. Cammarata. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do you agree ?
Mr. Cammarata. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Stand aside.
Mr. Cammarata. That is all? That is all?
The Chairman. You may stand aside.
Mr. Cammarata. Thank you.
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. That is it.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess, subject to the
<^all of the Chair.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess: The
chairman and Senator Kennedy.
(Whereupon, at 10 :55 a.m. the select committee recessed to recon-
vene at the call of the Chair.)
INVESTIGATION OF 13IPR0PER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1958
U.S. Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities,
IN THE Labor or Management Field,
Washington, D.G.
The select committee met at 10 :30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 221, agreed to January 29, 1958, in the caucus room. Senate
Office Building, Senator Jolin L. McClellan (chairman of the select
committee) presiding.
Present : Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas ; Senator
Barry Goldwater, Republican, Arizona.
Also present : Robert F, Kennedy, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Adler-
man, assistant chief counsel; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel;
Ruth Y. Watts, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Goldwater.)
The Chairman. We resume hearings this morning in connection
with the subject matter that we had under consideration on the last
day of our previous hearings.
Call tlie first witness.
Mr. Kjinnedy. I might just say before we call the first witness
that as you know, we have been extremely interested in the democratic
processes and procedures within certain unions, and we went into
this situation rather extensively in the hearings that we had on the
Teamsters Union, and the situation regarding St. Louis, Pontiac,
Mich., and some other areas in Missouri, as well as the situation in
New York regarding the elections there.
So this morning will be a hearing involving not only a julcebox
local, but a situation involving an election, or democratic processes
and procedures within the local of the Teamsters Union in Youngs-
town, Ohio.
The first witness — I would lil<:e to call two witnesses, Mr. Carelly
and Mr. Sammartino.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn, please ?
Do you and each of you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, tiie whole
truth, and nothing but the tiiith, so help you God ?
Mr. Carelly. I do.
Mr. Sammartino. I do.
16483
16484 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF LARRY CARELLY AND JOSEPH SAMMARTINO
The Chairman. The witness on my left, will you please state your
name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation.
Mr. Sammartino. My name is Joseph Sammartino, and I am affili-
ated with the General Distributing Co., Youngstown, Ohio.
The Chairman. Thank you. And the next witness, will you iden-
tify yourself.
Mr. Carelly. My name is Larry Carelly, affiliated with the Islay
Dairy Co., in Youngstown, Ohio.
The Chairman. Do you gentlemen waive counsel ?
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir.
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Let me get the spelling of your name, please.
Mr. Carelly. C-a-r-e-1-l-y. Joseph Lawrence Carelly.
Mr. Kennedy. And the name of the company you work for is
I-s-1-a-y Dairy Co. ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Sammartino, it is S-a-m-m-a-r-t-i-n-o?
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What is the name of your place of business ?
Mr. Sammartino. General Distributing Co.
Mr. Kennedy. And you both drive trucks for those companies ; is
that right ?
Mr. Carelly. That is right.
Mr. Sammartino. I am now a salesman, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. I will address the questions first to Mr. Carelly.
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What local is that ?
Mr. Carelly. No. 377.
Mr. Kennedy. That is in Youngstown, Ohio?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr, Kennedy. How long have you been a member of that local ?
Mr. Carelly. Since 1945.
Mr. Kennedy. And that takes in the truck drivers in the Youngs-
town, Ohio, area ; is that right?
Mr. Carelly. Yes; which also includes Warren and Ashtabula,
Ohio.
Mr, Kennedy. How many members do you have in that Teamster
local ?
Mr. Carelly. Approximately 4,500 to 5,000.
Mr. Kennedy. How long have you been a member ?
Mr. Carelly. Since June of 1945.
Mr. Kennedy. Since that time, have you been on a checkoff system?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you explain what that means?
Mr. Carelly. Well, on the checkoff system, the union entered into
an agreement with the employer to have the employer take out their
dues and remit those to the union.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you identify this, please?
The Chairman. Mr, Carelly, I hand you a blank form here entitled
"Statement, Chaufl'eurs, Warehousemen, and Helpers, Local Union
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16485
377," and I will ask you to examine it and state if you identify it,
please.
Mr. Carelly. This is a statement of our local that is sent to our
employer.
The Chairman. That is sent to whom ?
Mr. Carelly. Sent to our employer, mailed to our employer at the
last day of every month.
The Chairman. Mailed to your employer ?
Mr, Carelly. Yes ; on the last day of every month, whichever the
case might be, the 30th or 31st of the month.
The Chairman. That is a statement to your employer with respect
to the amount of dues they should withhold and pay ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir, that is for each and every driver.
The Chairman. For each driver ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That memorandum or statement, or whatever it is,
is sent to the employer for each driver ?
Mr. Carelly. No, just one statement is sent for all of the drivers.
The Chairman. They put the name of all of the drivers on there?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And indicate the amount of dues that should be
witliheld?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you. That may be made exhibit No. 1.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 1" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Ivennedy. When is this sent to the employer?
Mr. Carelly. I stated on the last day of the month, the 30th or
31st.
Mr. Kennedy. And it states the dues must be paid by the 10th of
the month ; is that right?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Now, you have been on the checkoff system since
1945, where the employer sends in the dues and checks it off your
salary and sends in the dues to the union headquarters.
Now, were you nominated for office of this local ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir, I was, I was nominated from the floor, on
the night of September 3, at a general membership meeting.
Mr. Kennedy. September 3 of this year; is that right?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were nominated for the position of trus-
tee ; is that right ?
Mr. Carelly. Trustee and business agent.
Mr. Kennedy. Let me just ask Mr. Sammartino — how long have you
been in the local ?
Mr. Sammartino, Approximately 21 years, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Have you also been in the checkoff system ?
Mr, Sammartino, Yes, sir.
Mr. Ivennedy. And your dues have been paid eveiy month for 21
years by the employer; is that right?
Mr. Sammartino. No, sir, the checkoff system, I am just guessing,
took effect approximately 14 years ago.
Mr. Ivennedy, Prior to that you paid your own dues?
16486 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Sammartino. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. But for 14 years, the checkoff system has been in
effect?
Mr. Sammartino. That is just a guess.
Mr. Ejennedy. That is on the arrangements made between the em-
ployer and the union officials, or union; is that right?
Mr. Sammartino. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. It is done by contract ?
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. It is part of the bargaining contract that the check-
off will take place?
Mr. Sammartino. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you also nominated for office ?
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir, I was nominated for trustee and busi-
ness agent.
Mr. Kennedy. At the same meeting ?
Mr. Sammartino. September 3 meeting, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us, Mr. Carelly, what occurred after
you were nominated ?
Mr. Carelly. After I was nominated from the floor, the question
came up concerning our eligibility, and so it was brought out to the
attention that the officers maybe should go down to the union hall
and find out who was eligible and who was not eligible according to
the constitution. The reason I say to the union hall, this meeting is
Iield at the Eagles Hall in Youngstown, Ohio, and it is a large audi-
torium, and doing something like this the audience is much greater
than our union hall can possibly hold.
So they came back with their findings, and claimed that only one
of our men was eligible to run.
Mr. Kennedy. How many were nominated in your slate?
Mr. Carelly. There were four of us altogether, William DeGenaro.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the fourth one ?
Mr. Carelly. William Gaw.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were an opposition slate to the incumbent
officers ?
Mr. Carelly. That is right. They came back with the findings
that William DeGenaro was the only one eligible to run. So after I
found that out, I asked for the floor, and I made a statement to the
effect that I didn't buy their findings, and that if I had to I would
fight it and fight it all of the way to the courts.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliy were you ruled ineligible ?
Mr. Carelly. Because they claimed according to the constitution
my dues weren't paid 2 years prior to the nomination ; that is, to be
in good standing your dues would have to be paid on the fii'st business
day of each and every month, and as I stated before, the employer
does not send the statement out until the 30th of the month or the
31st, and therefore our employer cannot possibly send the money back
on the 1st of the month, so it is ineligible.
The Chairman. May I enter a question there a moment.
Wlien the bill is sent out on tlie 30th of the month, from your
union, what day do you get your check for your wages ?
Mr. Carelly. Well, we get paid — let me put it this way — we get
paid on the 10th and 25th of each and every month. Our dues are
taken out the 25th of the month, the preceding month.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16487
The Chairman. In other words, at the time that bill is sent out,
your dues have already been deducted ?
Mr. Carelly. They are already deducted.
The Chairman. For which month ?
Mr. Carelly. For the following month.
The Chairman. For the following month, and not the month in
which they are withheld ?
Mr. Carelly. No.
The Chairman. So that your dues are actually paid by you ?
Mr. Carelly. Well, I don't follow you there.
The Chairman. Just a moment. Under their contract the employer
must withhold the dues ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And that is a negotiated contract between the em-
ployer and union ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Under that contract in performance of the agree-
ment contained therein with respect to the obligation of the employer
to withhold, he does withhold on about the 25th of the month your
dues for the following month ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And in withholding he is the agent of the local?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The ChairmjVN. And therefore you have no control over it?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
The Chairman. So that your dues are actually paid at the time
that they are witliheld ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Now, whether the agent of the local transmits
them before the 1st of the month, is something over which you have
no control ?
Mr. Carelly. I certainly don't.
The Chairman. But you cannot recover them, and they are already
withheld, and you have no control over the amount of your dues after
they are withheld ?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to just call Mr. Bellino
briefly in connection with what he has found in an examination of
the records, and as to whether these gentlemen have had their dues
paid.
The Chairman. Come around, Mr. Bellino.
In the meantime. I will ask each of you, Have you been delinquent
for your dues at any time on any monthly payment during the past
2 years ?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
Mr. Sammartino. No, sir.
The Chairman. In other words, this process of withholding has
continued over that period and your dues were withheld each month
for the following month.
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir, as long as we are under a checkoff, it is
always witlilield every month.
The Chairman. Have you worked all of that time, and your dues
have been withheld ?
16488 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Carelly. Without any inter niptions, sir.
The Chairman. For each month during the 24 months preceding
this nomination ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Bellino, will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Belling. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CARMINE S. BELLINO
The Chairman. Mr. Bellino, you may identify yourself.
Mr. Belling. My name is Carmine S. Bellino, member of the staff.
The Chairman. You are also a certified public accountant, are you?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And you are employed by the committee as a pro-
fessional staff member in that capacity ?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bellino, it has been a provision of the constitu-
tion of the Teamsters that you have your dues paid up to the first of
the month to be eligible to run for office, and it has to be over a period
of 2 years, and you have to be in good standing for a period of 2 years ;
is that right ?
Mr. Belling. The pertinent provisions are article 10, section 5,
which provides that all members paying dues — I might say article 2,
section 4 first, to be eligible for election to any office of a local union
or the international union, a member must be in continuous good
standing for a period of 2 years prior to nomination for said office,
and must have vrorked at the craft as a member for a total period oi
2 years.
Article 10, section 5(c), provides that all members paying dues to
local unions must pay them on or before the first business day of the
current month, in advance. Where membership dues are being
checked off by the employer pursuant to properly executed checkoff
authorization, it shall be the obligation of the member to make one
payment of 1 month's dues in advance to insure his good standing.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, that provision that you just read was not in
the constitution until September of 1957?
Mr. Belling. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. That is a new provision?
Mr. Belling. September of 1957 convention provided this.
Mr. Kennedy. Let us go back to what the rule was.
The Chairman. That is the convention in Miami?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The rule prior to that, of the constitution, provided
prior to that, that you had to have your dues paid up in ord^r to be
in good standing, and you had to have your dues paid up by the first
of the month, and you had to have them paid up over a period of 2
years; is that right?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16489
Mr. Kennedy. They have ruled in the past, we found, for instance
in Nashville, Tenn., Jind in other areas, that if your dues are not re-
ceived at the headquarters by the first of the month, although they
might be checked otf in time, if they are not received by the first day
of the month, you are declared ineligible.
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. We have found in a number of cases that the only
people eligible in some of the Teamsters Union locals, have been the
incumbent officers who paid their own dues, have we not?
Mr. Beli.ino. And which have been paid usually on a basis of a
year in advance.
Mr. Kennedy. But just the only people eligible to run for office
are the incumbent officers.
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, this provision in the constitution was slightly
changed in 1957; is that correct?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And that provision that you just read of the con-
stitution provides that in order to avoid this problem, that the union
membership should pay their dues a month in advance, and if they
were under the checkoff system.
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. They should pay their own dues a month in ad-
vance, and then when the checkoff system was in effect they would
be declared eligible.
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, I will ask these witnesses about how that ap-
plied to them, in just a moment, but you have made a study to deter-
mine when these witnesses paid their dues or when their dues were
received at the union headquarters?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you find?
Mr. Belling. Insofar as the September dues, you mean ?
Mr. Kennedy. All of the dues prior to that time. And you found
they were checked off regularly?
Mr. Belling. Insofar as taking Carelly and going back to 1956, his
dues for the 1st of January 1956 were paid the 6th of the month; and
in February they were paid the 2d of the month ; and in March, the 6th
of the month; and April, the 3d of the month; and then the 5tli, and
the 6th, and the 5th and — in other words, before the 10th of the
month his dues were paid off under the checkoff system, in almost every
instance. There is only one period where it was paid on the 15th. An-
other period was on the 11th, and all others were prior to the 10th
of the month.
Mr. Kennedy. During this whole period of the time he was on the
checkoff system the employer was checking off the money from his
salary, and turning it in to the union ; is that correct?
Mr. Belling. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And the same thing for Mr. Sammartino ?
Mr. Belling. Sammartino the same thing, except that he was in
advance starting in June. On May 27 of 1958 he paid his June dues,
and so he was paid in advance; and on June 16 he paid his July
dues ; July 16 he paid his August dues. So he was in advance at the
time of this nomination meeting on September 3.
16490 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. But they disqualified him and declared him in-
eligible because of the checkoff in the past, when his dues had not
actually reached the treasury from the employer for some 6 or 8 days
after the 1st of the month ?
Mr. Belling. That is correct.
Senator Goldwater. May I ask technically, when are the dues con-
sidered paid — when the checkoff occurs or when the money reaches the
treasury ?
Mr. Bellino. They have considered the emj^loyer as the agent of
the union, and so I would say technically it is when the employer
deducts the dues. However, the union goes on the basis of when they
actually receive it.
Senator Goldwater. Is there anything in the contract that specifies
the time of payment ?
Mr. Belling. Well, I haven't seen his contract, but the usual pro-
vision is upon being notified by the union of what members are em-
ployed by that company, then they check off the dues at the next pay-
roll period and send it into the union. So that in this particular
case, insofar as Carelly is concerned, around the end of the month,
the Islay Dairy Co. received a notice from the secretary treasurer of
local 377 including Carelly's name as one of the members working for
them, and they deducted, on the September 3 payroll period, which
was a Friday, they deducted the dues. They paid it on September 5.
I am sorry ; it was September 5 that they deducted it, and the dues
were in by September 10.
Senator Goldwater. The company is in effect the agent; is that
right?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Senator Goldwater. As soon as the agent had deducted the dues,
are they not technically paid ?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir ; I would say so. I would say they are tech-
nically paid.
Senator Goldwater. To your knowledge, has that ever been to the
courts ?
Mr. Belling. Not as far as I know, Senator.
The Chairman. I think it is more than technically paid. If I pay
a duly constituted agent of a master a debt I owe, or an obligation,
when I pay it to the agent, if he is an authorized agent, the debt is
paid, whether that agent absconds with the money, or whatever he
does.
So it is more than technically paid; it is actually paid insofar as
the employer and the union member are concerned.
Mr. Belling. I would believe so.
Senator Goldwater. Is this bill, the form that this gentleman iden-
tified, is that the receipt?
Mr. Belling. That is the form sent by the union to the employer
and listing the names of the union members that are working for that
company.
Senator Goldwater. How does the union recognize receipt of that
money? Do they receipt for it?
Mr. Belling. They deposit it and issue a receipt to the member.
Senator Goldwater. But receipting to the employer, how does he
receipt to the employer ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16491
Mr. Belling. They may actually tell us the actual procedures, Sen-
ator.
Mr. Sammartino. Our employer, upon receiving the statement, they
send in a check, and the same statement is sent back to our employer
or sent back to the employees with the receipt marked paid, with re-
ceipts for each and every employee.
Senator Goldwater. Who sends that back, the company or the
union ?
JNIr. Sammartino. The union, sir. It is sent back to the shop
steward, and the shop stewards distribute them to the membership,
their receipt.
Senator Goldwater. AVhen they say the first of the month, Mr. Bel-
lino, do they mean the 1st actually, or the 10th ?
Mr. Belling. The first business day is the way the constitution
reads, the first business day of the month.
Senator Goldw^vtek. Most of these have been deposited from the 3d
to the 10th ?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Senator Goldwater. So it has been the general practice not to have
them paid, and to keep the entire membership in a state of not having
paid their dues, in case this ever comes up.
Mr. Belling. They have always been considered in good standing
by paying their dues prior to the 10th of the month.
The Chairman. There is another phase of this that is intriguing to
me. There is notliing in that section 4, the first item you read from the
constitution, that makes the same condition of eligibility applicable
to appointive officers, where a union is in trusteeship or something, is
there?
Mr. Belling. Not in this section, and whether there is in any other,
I don't know.
The Chairman. There is a big loophole where they can take a man
right out of the penitentiary and appoint him to one of these high
positions in the union — is that correct — and not be in violation of the
constitution ?
Mr. Belling. I don't know the answer to that.
Mr. Kennedy. Senator, they can do that, but these people that they
take out of the penitentiary and place in those positions of power are
not eligible under the constitution. What has happened in the past
is that they are not any more eligible than anybody else; the inter-
national president can just waive the constitution or they just don't
pay attention to the constitution in those cases.
The Chairman. Speaking at least of practical application, they do
not apply it in those instances.
Mr. Kennedy. That is correct, and, of course, it is the same pro-
cedure followed by Mr. Harold Gibbons in St. Louis. This provi-
sion of the constitution that we have just read should apply to the
Carnival Workers Union in operating supposedly out of S. Louis, but
Mr. Gibbons, as the trustee of the joint council, waived the constitution
and said, "This doesn't apply in this case."
So these people in the St. Louis situation were declared eligible by
Mr. Gibbons and supported by Mr. Hoffa. They participated in the
election, and with the switch votes that made the difference they gave
the election to Mr. Harold Gibbons.
16492 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
So the problem that we are dealing with is where the constitution
can be interpreted one way to help the incumbent officers, Mr. Hoffa,
Mr. Gibbons, and his fellow officials, and another way when the rank
and file attempt to run against these people.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, will you tell what happened, Mr. Carelly, after
the officers came back and said that you were all ineligible ?
Mr. Carelly. I forgot to mention one fact. Before they entertained
the motion of that eligibility, I think there was about 1 hour and 45
minutes before they finally agreed to check this eligibility that same
night. In other words they wanted to rule us out just that night,
you see, but we finally, or the membership finally voiced their opinion
that they should go and check the elegibility that night. What hap-
pened after then, they declared my ineligibility, and I made the state-
ment that I would hght it all of the way through, and I wouldn't
back up for anybody.
I then wrote a letter to Mr. Martin F. O'Donoghue, the chairman of
the board of monitors, and also sent the same letter to James Hoffa,
president of the International, stating my case and why I should be
declared eligible.
I waited approximately a week to 10 days, and when I didn't get
an answer. I called Mr. O'Donoghue up here one evening, and I asked
Mr. O'Donoghue what the final disposition, if any, on my case was.
Mr. O'Donoghue stated to me, and which he can verify, that Mr.
Hoffa had declared me eligible, and he asked me if I didn't receive the
telegram stating so.
I told him that I didn't, and he said that he would see Mr. Hoffa the
following morning and make sure that I would receive the telegram
so we could go on with this election.
I waited the next day, and I received no telegram, and I waited
in the afternoon, and I didn't receive it, and so I contacted Mr.
O'Donoghue again that evening.
Now mind you, that is putting me through all of this expense. That
money came out of my pocket. That is what these incumbent officers
are doing to us today.
Mr. O'Donoghue told me that night that he had spoken to Hoffa, but
Mr. Bill Presser from Cleveland, Ohio, sent in a letter of protest and
stopped the eligibility. That is what happened.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Presser was head of the Ohio Conference of
Teamsters ?
Mr. Carelly. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been a witness here, Mr. Chairman, and he is
the one who intervened and stopped the election.
Mr. Carelly. That is what Mr. O'Donoghue told me.
Senator Goldwater. Under what provisions of the constitution can
that man stop the action ?
Mr. Carelly. Not being in good standing due to the dues not being
paid 2 years prior.
Senator Goldwater. Mr. O'Donoghue and Mr. Hoffa had agreed
that you are eligible, and how can Mr. Presser interject an objection
and h{j,ve it sustained ?
Mr. Carelly. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. What obviously happened is that Mr. Presser is a
very close associate of Mr. Hoffa's, and Mr. Presser has the immediate
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16493
jurisdiction over Ohio, and undoubtedly he intervened and stated that
he did not want tliese gentlemen to be declared eligible, and so Mr.
Hoffa reversed his position on this. Isn't that rights Mr. Holla then
was the one who reversed his position after intervention of Mr.
Presser.
The Chairman. I am wondering if Mr. Hoffa ever intended in good
faith to declare you eligible-
Mr. Carelly. I think the question should be asked of Mr. Presser.
The Chairman. I know, you couldn't answer that. But I have
doubts that he ever had any intention whatsoever of declaring you
eligible.
Mr. Carelly. I am inclined to believe Mr. O'Donoghue's word.
The Chairman. I can understand his position, and I am not sure
Mr. Hoffa was in good faith when he intimated to Mr, O'Donoghue
that he had sent a telegram.
Mr. Carelly. I understand you now.
Mr. Ivennedy. The incumbent officers that were running against
you were associates of Mr. Presser, were they not?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, we assumed they are.
Mr. Kennedy. Particularly Mr. Joseph Blumetti ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He was one of those nominated on the other slate,
as a trustee, was he not ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He was going to be running against you ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Carelly. The other slate, they were all declared eligible, were
they?
Mr. Carelly. Well, yes ; they were the incumbents.
Mr. Kennedy. And. you had this conversation with Mr. O'Don-
oghue. Could you tell us what steps you then took ?
Mr. Carelly. It is not every day you walk into something like this,
and I am trying to keep it straight. Sammartino called me up one
afternoon and told me, "We are flying to Washington today."
I said, "Not me; I have never flown; I am not getting off the
ground." And he said, "Well, we are going Monday morning; we
are going on the plane to Washington," and I believe that was Septem-
ber 22. We came up to see Mr. O'Donoghue personally, and we then
met his executive secretary, Mr. Bartosic, and he took statements from
us as to what was going on in Youngstown.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, subsequently, was this put up to the member-
ship as to whether you should be declared ineligible ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir. Last month, on November 5, this was
brought up by the membership that we be placed on the ballot.
Mr. Ivennedy. What did the membership decide?
Mr. Carelly. That these men should be placed on the ballot, that
was their wash.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that unanimous ?
INIr. Carelly. Yes, sir ; it was nearly unanimous.
I^Ir. Kennedy. How many members were there at the meeting ?
Mr. Carelly. On that night there were approximately 1,500 mem-
bers.
3G751— 59— pt 46 3
16494 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. They all voted almost unanimously that these men
should be placed on the ballot?
Mr. Carelly. It was a standup vote ; yes, sir ; and to appreciate it
you have to be there to see it.
Mr. Kennedy. Are they concerned about the way that the local is
beino; run and operated by Mr. Presser and Mr. Blumetti ?
Mr. Careely. They most certainly are, and I can jrive you an ex-
ample. We held a nieetincr here Sunday — no, it was Wednesday, De-
cember 3— it was Sunday, December 7 — and the meeting was called
for the express purpose that the decision which Judge Connell of
Cleveland handed down, declaring us ineligible
Mr. Kennedy. Just so we can get that in perspective, in the mean-
time this had been appealed to the courts ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir ; it had been appealed to the U.S. circuit court
of appeals.
Mr. Kennedy. How did it get into Judge Connell's court?
Mr. C-\relly. Well, the opposition took it there, I guess.
Mr. Kennedy. They took it in there to try to declare you ineli-
gible ?
Mr. Carelly. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. They were supported in his court, and he gave a
decision declaring you ineligible?
Mr. Carelly. That is right. In that decision, by the way, it came
down just 2 days before our general membership meeting, and I my-
self believed that this decision — well, I don't know how to put it, but
it didn't seem to help the membership any, and it seemed to demoralize
them in a way. We have a lot of good workers in the rank and file and
we kind of got the membership together again and explained to them
that we weren't done, and they asked me, "What do we do now?"
And I said, "Well, we are just beginning to fight now."
So that is when we held this meeting on December 7, and it was
called on a Friday, 2 days before and, mind you, that day the Cleve-
land Browns were playing football, but we still had a meeting of 500
members there attending this meeting in protest that the opposition
was trying to throw us into trusteeship. Of course, we all know what
trusteeship means, it means we would all be out.
By the way, I would like to go on further and explain that to com-
bat that we have a petition being circulated to the effect that we don't
want to help throw into truseeship and this was Sunday, mind you,
and today is the 9th, I believe, 2 days later, and already we have ap-
proximately 1,000 signatures, and we are not done circulating j^et.
The Chairman. Is their petition pending in a court to throw you
into bankruptcy, or into trusteeship ?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir; I don't believe I stated it that way.
The Chairman. I didn't say you did, and I was just trying to get
the procedures that are being undertaken to place you in trusteeship.
Are the international officers undertaking to place you in trusteeship ?
Mr, Carelly. Here is what happened. After that meeting Bill
Presser's public relations man, Harold Cohen, from Cleveland, held
a press conference with the opposition at the Valley Park Motel in
Youngstown, and I think that is what they decided to throw against
us, figuring that is the way they could beat us down.
The Chairman. It was a threat that if you pursued this, "We will
put you into receivership,"
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16495
Mr. Carelly. Call it what you may, but that is right. So they de-
cided to throw it into trusteeship, and so they were circulating peti-
tions, and another point is that at Sunday's meeting one of the rank
and file tliat works essentially — and 1 believe Sannnartino has a news-
paper here to the elfect— said that they circulated these petitions and
telling the workers it just ^vas primarily an investigation, and nothing
else. But in reality it is to try to throw the local into receivership.
It is all this in the newspaper.
Mr. Kennedy. Is this the paper that you are talking about ?
Mr. Sammartino. The bottom article, yes.
The Chairman. It is the youngstown Vindicator?
Mr. Samimartino. It is under the title of the article there.
The Chairman. This article in the paper may be made exhibit
No. 2.
( Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 2," for reference,
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. In this court proceeding where Judge Connell gave
an adverse ruling to the rank and file, although you had your dues
paid up and you were under the checkoff system, and had been in the
union for 15 or 20 years, one 15 years, and Sammartino for 21 years,
were you participants in that case ?
Mr. Carelly. Well here is what happened. We were participants
to start with. In other words, we were subpenaed up to Cleveland,
and our attorney took the position that the Federal court in Cleveland
had no jurisdiction over our case, and therefore Judge Connell took
it upon himself to dismiss us out of the case, and we think we were
literally thrown out of there.
Mr. Kennedy. You weren't even allowed to come in ?
Mr. Carelly. We didn't testify at all. At this December 4 meeting,
that is the one I stated, I made this statement and I wanted to be
quoted when I made the statement, that due to Judge Connell's decision
turning us down, that I thought his decision was unfair and was
incorrect and that I didn't see how Judge Connell could hand down
a decision such as he did when he didn't listen to two sides of the
story.
^Ir. Kennedy. There was nobody there presenting your side, is
that right?
Mr. Carelly. I will take that back, Mr. Knee was there.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the attorney ?
Mr. Careli.y. Attorney for the Teamsters.
Mr. Kennedy. He is attorney for Mr. William Presser ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he was responsible for presenting your side
of the situation ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, he was supposed to have been defending us and
Jimmy Hoffa.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the attorney for Mr. AVilliam Presser. And so,
in fact, as a practical matter, you had no one giving your side of the
story ?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir. There is one other point since you brought
that up which I might forget.
It seemed to me like it turned out to be a joke, that whenever Mr.
Knee wanted to know something, he would walk back to the railroad
16496 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
and converse with Mr. Presser and during recess he would converse
with Mr. Presser.
The Chairman. You were present at the hearing ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir, I was. We didn't leave Cleveland until 5
o'clock or 5 :80 that night.
Senator Goldwater. Did you ask to be heard ?
Mr. Carelly. No, we were dismissed and we were never given the
chance. We had tAvo attorneys there, Mr. Lebert and Mr. John
Weeks Powers. Mr. Powers was trying to say something but he never
did get a chance to speak.
Senator Goldwater. Why wasn't he allowed to speak ?
Mr. Carelly. Well, because Mr. Lebert brought up the question,
and I assume this, and I am not a lawyer, and I assume that he dis-
missed us from the case and that was it.
Mr. Kennedy. The judge dismissed them all from the case?
Mr. Carelly. He dismissed us as defendants.
Senator Goldwater. He dismissed your side from the case ?
Mr. Carelly. To get the picture straight, the plaintiffs as far as I
could see were suing us three, the defendants plus Jimmy Hoffa and
Gibbons, and they were also the defendants, and so when they threw
us out of the case then Hoff n became the defendant.
Senator Goldwater. Did the judge do this ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes ; here is a transcript of this trial.
Senator Goldwater. How long did it take the judge to do it?
Mr. Carelly. Well, you mean throwing us out ?
Senator Goldwater. Was the hearing 1 day or 2 days ?
Mr. Carelly. No, the hearing was held on 1 day, and it was held
on the 13tli day of November, so then he sent it back to December 1,
which was 2 days prior to our general membership meeting.
Senator Goldwater. On December 1 he announced to you that you
were dismissed ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir. Oil, no, he dismissed us the very first day.
Senator Goldwater. And then the judge actually never heard your
side of the case ?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir, and as a matter of fact I don't believe we
were in the court 45 minutes.
Senator Goldwater. It is a shame this committee doesn't have
jurisdiction to investigate courts.
Tlie Chairman. I think we have a little jurisdiction. Can we have
that transcript or would you like to keep it ?
Mr. Carelly. You mean the transcript here, you would like to have
it ? I think you can have it.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, it will be made exhibit 3.
(Document referred to was marked exhibit 3, for reference in the
files of the select committee. )
Tlie Chairman. I am not sure we don't have jurisdiction to inquire
into these matters as they relate to management and labor relations. I
have never felt under too much restraint to criticize a court if I
thought he was wrong.
Mr. Carelly. I would like to say this, since I am under oath, be-
cause I don't want to be forgetting anything :
They did have a pretrial conference now which lasted about an
hour, to an hour and 10 minutes, with their attorneys and our attor-
neys and the judge.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16497
The Chairman. But the open session of court was 45 minutes ?
Mr. Carelly. For us it was. It was approximately 45 minutes.
Mr. Sammartino. They opened up the trial, and Mr. Griggs made
the opening statement for them, and then oiu- attorneys got up and
made an opening statement, I believe, and that is when the judge dis-
missed them.
Senator Goldwater, After that, in eifect, the international lawyer
represented both sides ?
Mr. Carelly. Well, I cannot say that, because when they told us
to leave, we were asked to leave, and we went back to our hotel in
Cleveland, and so I couldn't actually say that, but the transcript I
imagine would have it in there.
Senator Goldwater. This was an open hearing?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Senator Goldwater. And you were asked to leave an open hearing?
Mr. Carelly. Well, now wait a while. Let us get that straight
again now. You saj' an open hearing by the public being invited
and all of that ? I think we were asked to leave because we were the
defendants, that is why. Therefore, we weren't permitted to stay in
there.
Senator Goldwater. Did you try to stay ?
Mr. Carelly. No, v,e didn't. But we were asked to leave, and our
lawyers told us to leave.
The Chairman. ^Y[\o asked you to leave?
Mr. Carelly. Our lawyers.
Senator Goldwater. Did the judge asked them to ask you ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, as far as I gathered. No, what I am referring
to, you are talking about the start of the trial. At the start of the
trial we were asked to leave, and I am coming to that. But in the
afternoon, after recess, a couple of our men did go back just to hear
the trial, what was going on, a couple of men of the membership.
Mr. Sammartino. I don't believe we were directly asked to leave
the courtroom, sir, and I believe that our attorneys were dismissed,
and they were to leave, and not the courtroom, but the front part.
The Chairman. You were eliminated from the proceedings?
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And therefore you couldn't be heard ?
Mr. Sammartino. That is right.
The Chairman. And no one could plead your case, and your at-
torneys were dismissed by the court, and there was no point in your
staying except you might have stayed as a spectator ?
Mr. Sammartino. We were not ordered to leave the courtroom. I
would like to clarify that.
The Chairman. But you were kicked out of the case ?
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir ; definitely.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. First, Mr. HofFa was declared a defendant or was
defendant in the action to prevent him from allowing you to partici-
pate in the election ; is that correct ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And the attorney representing Mr. Hoffa in this case
was Mr. Knee ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
16498 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. And he was also the attorney and he has been the
attorney for the Ohio Conference of Teamsters and Mr. Presser?
Mr, Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And I might say, Mr. Chairman, that he represented
Mr. Presser before the Hoffman committee when Mr. Presser took the
fifth amendment at that time.
Now, there is one other thing we had better clarify, and that is the
question of the new provision of the constitution where it says that
all members who are on the checkoff system should pay their dues a
month in advance.
Mr. Bellino read that into the record. You are familiar with that?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you aware of that provision of the constitu-
tion?
Mr. Carelly. I didn't know that until this controversy broke out.
Mr. Kennedy. It had never been brought to your attention?
Mr. Carelly. Not to my attention.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, it is contained in the Teamster magazine of
Marcli 1958 and it states at that time that in order to be eligible to
run for office, and you are in the checkoff system, you should pay your
dues a month in advance.
Did you see this issue of the March magazine ?
Mr. Carelly. I will tell you what I saw there. The first time we
came to Washington and we were giving our statements to Bartosic,
the exBcutive secretary of the monitors, he asked me that question. I
told him that I don't receive any Teamster magazines, and I never did
see tliat.
Mr. Kennedy. And you never were aware of this provision of the
constitution ?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it ever posted in the union headquarters?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And were you ever told about it at any meetings?
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were never told about it, and so you had no
knowledge at all about the provision of the constitution ?
Mr. Carelly. No.
Mr. Kennedy. You never received a letter from the international
telling you that this provision of the constitution was in effect?
Mr. Carelly. You mean a personal letter, or individual letter to
each member?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Carelly. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What about you, Mr. Sammartino ? Did you know
about the change in the constitution ?
Mv. Sammartino. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you receive the Teamster magazine?
Mr. Sammartino. The same time Carelly did, at Mr. O'Donohue's
office.
Mr. Kennedy. You hadn't seen it prior to that time ?
Mr. Sammartino. No, sir, and I do not recollect seeing it.
Senator GoLDWAiiiR. May I get something clear here, Mr. Kennedy ?
It says :
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 1G499
Where membership dues are being checked off by the employer pursuant to
properly executed checkoff authorization, it shall be the obligation of the mem-
ber to make one payment of 1 month's dues to insure his good standing.
Now, would you iuterpret that to mean, Mr. Bellino, before the
man <^oes to work under tlie contract, he would have to pay 1 month's
dues in advance?
Mr. Bellixo. Yes, sir, to be in good standing.
Senator Goldwatek. And after that, he would be considered in
good standing if a checkoti' existed through the contract ?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Senator Goldwater. So what is changed here is to require them to
pay 1 month's dues in advance before they went to work, is that
about it ?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Senator Goldwatek. That wouldn't have affected either of these
gentlemen ?
Mr. Belling. It would not affect Sammartino, I am certain because
he was paid in advance.
Senator Goldavater. It wouldn't have affected either one, because
they were members of the organization under the other constitu-
tion, and the existing contract?
Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.
Senator Goldwater. So they would be in good standing by virtue
of having paid in advance under the contract, is that correct?
Mr. Belling. That is the question. Senator, as to whether it would
be mider the contract, but then the constitution changed it.
The Chairman. I believe this name "Plon. James C. Connell" is
familiar to this committee. It may be the same person, and I am not
sure. Is this the same Hon. James C. Connell that we had testimony
about regarding a champagne bucket being engraved and presented
to him ?
]Mr. Carelly. It is.
The Chairman. The same fellow ?
Mr. Carelly. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I believe that was presented by Mr. Presser, was
it?
Mr. Carelly, According to newspaper reports, yes.
The Chairinian. According to testimony that we had here, a cham-
pagne bucket with his name engraved on it was purchased for him
by jNIr. Presser, is that correct, or by the local ?
Mr. Carelly. Well sir, I am under oath here and I can only go by
what I read in the newspapers.
The Chairman. He is the same judge that was talked about at that
time?
Mr. Carelly. I assume he is, yes.
The Chairman. All right, proceed.
Senator Goldwater. How long has he been a judge up there ?
Mr, Carelly. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Belling. Since August of 1954.
Mr. Kennedy. I have the judge's decision here, and he says here on
page 16 :
One question which occurs to me here is if these are men who would pack
such a meeting with strangers and hand out false tickets to vote, they would
stoop so low in an effort to steal control of this little local.
16500 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
I presume he is tallring about you.
If they would stoop so low in an effort to steal control of this little local, do you
suppose the same people might not tell a little fib to the monitors about whether
they were on the mailing list or not.
Did you pack the meeting and hand out false tickets to vote and lie
to the monitors ?
Mr. Carelly. Might I answer one thing? As far as packing the
meeting, we in Youngstown feel that is about the only correct thing
that they have ever said down there. We did, we packed it with
members.
Mr. Kennedy. With members ?
Mr. Carelly. That is right, members of local 377, and how anybody
could get up there and testify who is a member and who isn't a member
is beyond us. We had two of our men at the door, and they had two
of the incumbents or in other words two of their officers at the door,
and they were screening everybody who was coming in.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the judge also suggests rather strongly that
you came and lied to the monitors about being on the mailing list.
Mr, Carelly. I still am not on the mailing list. My name is on the
mailing list, but I don't receive a copy, and to this day I haven't re-
ceived a copy.
Mr. Kennedy. And you say that under oath ?
Mr. Carelly. I certainly do.
Mr. Kennedy. If the judge has some information, perhaps he can
come in here.
The Chairman. I don't know whether the judge would like to testify
before the committee or not, but he is welcome, if he makes these
charges against you, and you say they are positively untrue,
Mr. Carelly. They certainly are.
Mr. Kennedy, Then he states here on page 19 :
Why was this 19.57 constitution treated so lightly? Why were these men
who were so obviously acting in violation of the international constitution given
so much encouragement?
You weren't given a great deal of encouragement, and you weren't
even allowed to argue your case, were you ?
Mr, Carelly, No, vsir, I stated that.
The Chairman. The encouragement you received was from the
membership ?
Mr. Carelly. That is right.
The Chairman. And, of course, that is offensive, I guess ?
Mr. Carelly. So it seems down there, it is.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know during all of this period of time, Mr.
Sammartino, that you were not a member in good standing of this
union?
Mr. Sammartino. I never saw a constitution until this thing started
and I saw them piled up in the office then. We feel it is the obligation
of our business agent to hand them out to the membership, but I have
never seen a constitution until this controversy came up.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you realize for 22 years you have been a mem-
ber, not in good standing, in the Teamster Union ?
Mr. Sammartino. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you realize the same thing for about 15 years,
that you have not been a member in good standing ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16501
Mr. Carelly. No, sir. I thoujijht when your dues were being taken
out, you just had to be a member in good standing.
Senat or Gt)LD\VATER. How much are your dues a month ?
Mr. Carelly. $4.50 a month. I would like to make a statement
regarding the constitution, that there was one membership meeting,
and Mr. Steinberg was at the meeting, and that statement I did bring
up, that this constitution was never brought up so much until this
nomination of officers came up.
I so made the statement that if anybody wanted to see where these
little books were laying, they wei-e laying in the office there on the
floor, and there were 2,000 or 3,000 of them laying on the floor, and
so evidently they could have been passed around. I also stated to
the membership, that I am sorry that I have not taken a photograph
of those constitutions laying inside the office in large cardboard boxes,
and yet tliey tried to tell the membership the books were distributed
which they never were. I wnll agree some may have been distributed
but the greater majority of the books were laying in the cardboard
boxes in the office.
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to once again point out, Mr. Chairman,
that in the international convention in September of 1957, the inter-
national convention, the constitution was waived in order to give the
presidency to Mr. James Hoffa, and at least 75 percent of the delegates
there were elected illegally. The constitution was waived by Mr.
Harold Gibbons with the support of Mr. Hoffa in the situation in
St. Louis, Mo., for the control of joint council 13; and the constitu-
tion was waived in Pontiac, Mich., in the union election up there last
year.
The constitution, however, was strictly enforced in Joplin, Mo.,
w^here they would not even tell the membership who was eligible to
run for office. Then the constitution, of course, was strictly enforced
here.
So the situation is where the officers, Mr. Hoffa, and Mr. Gibbons
and his fellow incumbent officers, interpret the constitution as they
see fit in any particular circumstance.
In Nashville, Tenn., out of 3,300 members of the union, only 11
were declared eligible to run for office.
The Chairman. In other words, we frequently hear the term "po-
litical bosses," and as this union is operated by its present officials,
with their cunningness at interpreting the constitution, this is what
you would call a labor dictatorship in your union, is that correct.
Mr. Carelly. I would, yes, sir.
Mr. Sammartino. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all for now, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, very much.
Mr. Kennedy. I thought we would call a witness for the other
side of the situation, Mr. Presser's representative, who is running for
office, and for whom Judge Connell made the decision. So I would
like to call Mr. Blumetti.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH BLUMETTI, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
H. CLTETORD ALLDEE
The Chairman. State your name, please ?
Mr. Blumetti. My name is Joseph Blumetti.
16502 LMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chaieman. Wliat is your residence?
Mr. Blumetti. 3925 Shelby Road, Youngstown, Ohio.
The Chairman. And what is your business or occupation ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have counsel present ?
Mr. Counsel, will you identify yourself ?
Mr. Allder. My name is H. Clifford Allder, member of the bar of
Washington, D.C.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Blumetti, we have had this testimony in connec-
tion with the election out in Youngstown, Ohio, and the rank-and-file
membership that nominated opposition to you and then were declared
ineligible, even though they had the support of the membership.
Could you tell us anything about that, and give us your side of the
situation ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Might we infer from that that you did something
in connection with this case, that if you told the truth about it your
answer might tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer it because I honestly
believe that the answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. If you are honest in your answer, then no other
conclusion can be drawn from your statement.
All right, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the judge here goes into the question —
These men running against you were packing such a meeting with strangers
and handing out false tickets to vote, if they would stoop so low in an effort to
steal control of this little local.
Were these men trying to steal control of this little local from you,
Mr. Blumetti?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you shocked at their tactics, that they were
using about stealing the control of this little local from Mr. Blumetti
and Mr. Presser ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that the answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. The testimony here shows the membership of this
local to be between 4,500 and 5,000 members, is that correct ?
Mr. Blumettl. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that this answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you think it might tend to incriminate you if
you answered truthfully as to the number of members in the local ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that the answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. With the permission of the committee I will order
and direct you to answer that question.
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. The question still stands, and the order and direc-
tion will remain throughout your testimony.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16503
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. He also suggests in the decision, that these other
members of the rank and file running against you went to the monitors
and told a little fib about whether they were on the mailing list. Did
you tell that to the judge, that your opposition was fibbing?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you shocked ?
The Chairman. Did you testify in that case before Judge James C.
Connell ?
(The witness consulted with his counsel.)
Mr. Blumetti. No.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Blumetti, could you tell the committee
what conversations you had with Mr. Presser and Mr. Hoffa to declare
this opposition of yours ineligible ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Ivennedy. Could you tell us how you got in the Teamsters
Union or became an officer of the Teamsters Union, initially, Mr.
Blumetti ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer the question because
I honestly believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are we to imply from your answ^er that the way
you get elected to an office or appointed to office in that local or in the
Teamsters Union is under circumstances that would be incriminating,
if tlie truth were known ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer the question because
I honestly believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Certainly you are the best judge, and I will accept
your statement about it that it would incriminate you, and there is
something wrong about it.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. How long have you been an officer of the Teamsters
Union?
Mr. Bluimetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. What had been your experience prior to the time
you becamee an officer of the Teamsters Union ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. How many times have you been arrested, Mr.
Blumetti?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What was the last prison sentence you served, and
on what conviction, for what crime ?
Mr. Blumetti. I resi:)ectfu]ly decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, do we have some records of that?
Mr. Kennedy. In 1943, Mr. Chairman, he was sentenced to 6 years
and 1 day for white slavery.
16504 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Is that correct ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And he was sentenced to 6 years and 1 day, and he
has been arrested a nmnber of other times, for counterfeiting, sus-
picious character, for making false statements regarding the draft
during the war.
Is that correct ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Were you a slacker during the war?
(The witness consulted with his counsel.)
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. How long did you serve of your 6-year sentence
for white slavery ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call a witness from
the staff to give a little bit of Mr. Blumetti's background, and his
experience in this field.
The Chairman. Have him come aromid, please.
Mr. Kennedy. In the union field.
The Chairman. All right.
You have been previously sv/orn, and you will remain under the
same oath.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kaplan, when do we fi^rst hear of JVIr. Blumetti
becoming a union official ?
Mr. Kaplan. Mr. Blumetti first appeared as a union official ac-
cording to our records and our investigation in about 1950 or 1951,
at which time he commenced to organize the vending machine
operators in the Youngstown area.
Mr. Kennedy. For what union was that ?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, initially it appeared to have been for local 442
of the IBEW, which was then headed up for a long time by William
Presser of Cleveland.
Mr. Kennedy. This was before Mr. Presser went into the
Teamsters Union ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes; this was just prior to the time Mr. Presser came
into the Teamsters Union. There was also some clear indication that
he was operating additionally on behalf of an AFL Federal local
called the Musical Maintenance Workers Union, which had been a
Federal local that Mr. Presser had initiated in about 1940, but which
was purportedly superseded by 442 of the IBEW. But, nonetheless,
both Mr. Presser and Mr. Blumetti continued to report income from
that union, although it was not a union that was operating any place
that we could possibly tell.
Then, shortly thereafter, Mr. Presser obtained a charter from the
Teamsters I^rocal 410 and that charter was given to him in September
of 1951. Soon thereafter, Mr. Blumetti appeared as the business
agent for that local.
Mr. Kennedy. He came into the Teamsters Union in the Youngs-
town area, first from the IBEW, and then under Mr. Presser?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16505
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. In local 410 of the Teamsters ?
Mr. Kapl:\n. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he was made a business agent ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Had he practiced or do we have any information
that he had been practicin<r at the trade for 2 years prior to being
made a business agent, as the constitution provides?
]Mr. Kaplan. As a matter of fact, Mr. Blumetti himself had testified
before the Hoffman committee that prior to going into union work,
that he had been a bartender and a part owner, and occasionally he
said full owner of a bar and grill down in the Youngstown area.
Mr. Kennedy. So this provision of the constitution in the case of
Mr. Blumetti was waived ; is that right ?
Mr. Kaplan. Vei-}' clearly.
]\Ir. Kennedy. To allow him to be an official of the 'J'eamsters
Union?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. How long had he been out of the penitentiary
when he became connected with that union ?
Mr. Kaplan. I think he was released in 1946, after serving a little
bit more tlian 3 years, and he was paroled. At that time, he stated
that he commenced working for his brother, in this bar and grill, and
subsequently he said this was his bar and grill. There are some in-
consistencies in his prior testimony.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, what is his position at the present time, in
local 410 ?
Mr. Kaplan. He is a business agent, and I don't know what other
official titles he holds.
]Mr. Kennedy. He works for these two Teamster Unions : No. 377,
which we have just had testimony on, and local 410, which is the
jukebox union ?
Mr. Kaplan. I think it might be noted, of course, that with refer-
ence to local 410, its headquarters are Cleveland, and this is only a
branch of it, so I think he can only be a business agent.
]\Ir. Kennedy. The headquarters are in Cleveland, and who is head
of that?
Mr. Kaplan. Now it is a Joseph Fontana, and a Joe Nardi. Mr.
Presser resigned from that union in about 1955 to take over the presi-
dency of the taxicab drivers, and also to take over several higher
echelon offices, such as the Ohio conference and the joint State confer-
ences, and council.
The Chairjvian. "VYliat official position does this witness have in
local 377, at the present time ?
Mr. Kennedy. Business agent, I understand.
Mr. Kaplan. I don't know that, sir.
The Chairman. Then, it is local 377 involved with this election?
Mr, Kennedy. That is right. So there are two unions that we will
be discussing now, 410 and 377.
Mr. Kaplan. I might point out Mr. Blumetti did at one time tes-
tify that he had been elected a vice president of this union, up in
Cleveland, at a meeting in Cleveland, of local 410.
16506 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us how this union operates and as I
understand it from information we received it has approximately 100
members in the Youngstown area.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what we have found so far as the
money that is paid into this union ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir, this union just as with Mr. Presser, we had
some prior testimony on that; collects moneys on two bases. The
first is for dues from the employees, and the second is based upon
what they term an assessment, which is computed on the extent of the
ownership of machines of the employers.
In other words, if an employer has 100 jukeboxes operating, the
union assesses him $1 per month per jukebox, which is paid directly
to the union.
Mr. Kennedy. How much would that mean in assessments, for
instance, in the Youngstown area ?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, the cigarette machines are assessed at 50 cents
per machine, and we have had some reliable estimates which we have
tested as to the total number of machines under the jurisdiction of
Mr. Blumetti's branch, and based upon our estimates and a conserva-
tive estimate, this would come to over $50,000 a year just in assess-
ments.
The Chairman. Just the assessments against the owners ?
Mr. Kaplan. Just the assessments against the owners ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. And they collect dues then from the employees?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir, and additionally many owners are actually
self-employed and so they are also made to be members of the union.
The Chairman. They pay dues and also pay the assessment?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is the take on the employers ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I think an excellent example is seen in one of the
father and son businesses down there, where the alleged employer is
the father and he has his son working for him, and based upon the
computation they pay to the union each month $5 in dues for tlie son
who is certainly the employee, plus another $65 for the 65 machines
this man had on location, which came to a $70 a month payment for
1 employee.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat is possibly the explanation of that Mr.
Blumetti, that you receive such large amounts of money ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The dues of this individual, because it is the only
way this would be legal under the Taft-Hartley Act, is that this is
made in a payment of dues, and so the dues paid by this individual
employee that you just discussed, Mr. Kaplan, would be $70 a month.
Is that what you charge the employees, the members of your union?
Mr. Blumetti. I resi)ectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you believe such rackets as that ought to be
permitted in this country ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16507
The Chairman. Would you recommend some legislation to stop it?
Mr. Blume'iti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The CiiAiKMAN. Would you reconunend then that no legislation be
enacted to deal with this sort of racketeering?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chaihman. Are there ony other questions?
Mr. Kennedy. Based on your estimate of about $50,000 in these
assessments, and how much do they have to pay in dues
Mr. Kaplan. I think it is $3 a month for the people in the cigarette
and industrial vending operations, and $5 a month for the people in
the jukebox industry.
Mr. Kennedy. That would average about $45 a month per member
of your union, as far as dues are concerned, including the assessment
and the dues under the categories of dues. That would amount to $45
a month. Could you explain that to us, Mr. Blumetti?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. It says here under section 302 of the Taft-Hartley
Act:
It shall be unlawful for any employer to pay or deliver, or to agree to pay or
deliver, any money or other thing of value to any representative of any of his
employees who are employed in an industry affecting commerce.
It shall be unlawful for any representative of any employees who are employed
in an industry affecting commerce to receive or accept, or to agree to receive
or accept, from the employer of such employees any money or other thing of
value.
And the fine is a fbie of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for
not more than a year, or both.
Can you give us any explanation of this, Mr. Blumetti ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, is this a union, Mr. Kaplan, actually helping
and assisting the employees ?
Mr. Kapl.\n. We have many many statements from the people in
the area, which indicate without doubt that there has been absolutely
no concern with the employees, and indeed I think this could well be
set up because when Mr. Blumetti first testified before the Hoffman
committee about how he came into the union, he stated that —
The boys in Youngstown wanted to get into a local, and they come to me and
ask me if I would represent them, and I said I could not represent them unless
we had a charter, and I went to Mr. Presser and told him that I had the people
and they would be behind me and if he wanted he could come down to the
meeting and see exactly what we had. Bill said he would come down and
he did.
But now, actually, this meeting which took place was a meeting of
employers, and it was a meeting of the operators of vending machines
and not a meeting of employees. It was at this meeting and a series
of several others, at which the unionization took place.
Mr. Kennedy. What is the union's primary purpose?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, the purpose of the union very clearly fi'om what
it has done is to protect locations for the operators. That is to effect
a restraint of trade in their favor, in favor of the employer.
16508 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr, Kennedy. And these large sums of money are paid in to the
union in order for them to finance pickets in case they are needed,
and to pick competitors' stops ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is true, except that very little money has been
put out for it, and it is just a shakedown.
Mr. Kennedy. Why woukl these people pay the money ?
Mr. IvArLAN. Because they are afraid of losing locations if they
don't pay it now. Initially there were some operators who apparently
felt this was a good thing, and actually both Mr. Blumetti and Mr.
Blumetti's lawyer at one of the early meetings with the cigarette op-
erators, when they organized that group in 1951, told the operators
that they were getting protection on locations.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the purpose of the union, and the union
is to protect the locations of the members of the association?
Mr. Kaplan. Exactly.
Mr. Kennedy. After the association had gotten into the union,
then they have to continue to pay in order to keep their locations ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, because once they are in, they are at the mercy of
the union.
The Chairman. It is kind of like a drug addict getting hooked,
and they get hooked, and then they can't get out ?
Mr. Kaplan. They can't get out, and what happens is that then
only a small group tend to be favored, so that the small operators and
the small businessmen tend to get pushed out.
The Chairman. They develop a monopoly ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Was there considerable amount of violence initially
in connection with this union ?
Mr. Kaplan. There were at least several reported instances of
violence, and there were several mstances where we could not tell.
There was violence, and there were bombings and extensive bomb-
ings, and dynamite bombings, and broken windows, and acid poured
on machines, and there were shotguns fired through the windows of
locations which belonged to people who wouldn't go for Mr. Blumet-
ti's scheme.
Mr. Kennedy. Some of the jukebox owners testified against Mr.
Blumetti back in 1953 or 1954, and were there some reprisals taken
against those people?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir, there were.
Mr. Kennedy. A number of them were expelled from the union?
Mr. Kaplan. They were.
The Chairman. I see Mr. Blumetti kind of smiling. Do you want
to deny any of this ?
Mr. Allder. Is that a question ?
The Chairman. Do you want to deny it?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the information we have, Mr. Blu-
metti, outside of expenses, you took $10,500 in the form of salary
from this vending local in 1956. Is that correct?
Mr. ]3lumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incrimmate me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16509
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what you did for that money,
when they only had at the most 100 members of the union and a good
number of those were employers, and what you did for your $10,500?
Mr. Blumetti. 1 respectfully decline to answer because 1 honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Does it keep you pretty busy taking care of 100
members of the union ? Does it keep you pretty busy ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Ivennedy. And as I understand, that does not include expenses
that you received, and then you received another $8,780 in 1950 from
the local 377, is that correct?
]\£r. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us what you did with the rest of the
money of that miion, in the jukebox local, in Youngstown? Would
you tell us?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you make a split with this Mr. Presser?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What is his part of the shakedown, would you
tell us?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Ivennedy. Was it a prerequisite for you to be made head of
this union and to be brouglit in by Mr. Presser, that you have your
criminal record, of a conviction of white slavery ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. We also found that he is an associate of some of the
underworld figures in the Youngstown area ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir ; during one of the instances of violence which
you referred to before, one of the operators who refused to go along
with Mr. Blumetti because he would not form an association and then
sign up with the union in his area, in which he was operating, had a
couple of sticks of dynamite tossed into his front yard. Because his
partner was an expert on explosives he was able to quickly decap it
and they did decap it and they rewrapped it and they went down to
Youngstown and went into see him and they had rewrapped it in the
original paper and tossed it to Mr. Blumetti, and from the reaction
they are very certain that Mr. Blumetti knew what was in that
package.
After that tliey had some conversation and Mr. Blumetti assured
him that he claimed he knew nothing about this dynamite, but that
he would pass the word along to people who did so that there would
be no more of this same thing going on and in return for which the
people would join the union and further they were to give back cer-
tain locations that they had gotten by competition to a member wdio
was already affiliated M'ith Mr. Blumetti, and otherwise conform with
Mr. Blumetti's rules on how competition was to go.
36751— 59— pt. 46—4
16510 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Then one of the other operators who had testified against Mr. Blu-
metti at the Hoffman hearing had been dumped from the union as a
result, and his locations were declared open and among the group
that were taking his locations were a group of notorious racketeers
in the area who went around to taverns saying that the tavern owner
should change the person who had the machine in there to one that
was favored by Blumetti's union.
Mr. Kennedy. Some of the individuals, such as Mike and John
Farrah, have close underworld connections in Youngstown ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is a very notorious gang that controlled most of
the underworld activity in Mahoning and Trumbull County.
Mr. Kennedy. You are an associate of theirs ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Frank Imburgia ? Are you an associate of his, Mr.
Blumetti ?
Mr. Blumetti. Excuse me, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Mr. Frank I-m-b-u-r-g-i-a ?
Mr. Blumetti. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. You may stand aside.
The committee will stand in recess subject to call of the Chair.
(Whereupon, at 12 :05 p.m., Tuesday, December 9, 1958, the hearing
recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.)
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1959
United StxVtes Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities
IN THE Labor or JVL^nagement Field,
Washington, D.C.
The select committee met at 10 : 30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 44, agreed to Februaiy 2, 1959, in the caucus room, Senate Office
Building, Senator John L. McClellan, chairman of the select commit-
tee, presiding.
PrevSent: Senators Jolin L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas, and
Frank Church, Democrat, Idaho.
Also present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; John P. Con-
standy, assistant counsel ; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel ; Walter
R. May, investigator; Sherman S. Willse, investigator; Walter
De Vaughn, investigator ; Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Church.)
The Chairman. The Chair will make a brief opening statement as
we begin this series of hearings.
The Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor
or Management Field today proceeds to a study of the coin-operated
machine industry.
The majority of the persons in this field are, we believe, honest,
legitimate businessmen and w^orkers. However, they have frequently
found themselves hampered and restricted by arrangements between
competitors and by unscrupulous union officials. Also, to an increasing
•degree, they have been forced to deal with racketeers and to pay tribute
to them for the right to stay in business.
Now, in part, this hearing is a further extension of a study embarked
upon by the committee last June when we began to look into the impact
of the infiltration of the national criminal syndicate into labor and
management activities.
In hearings already held by the committee, we have had testimony
concerning labor and management connections with the gangland
figures who attended the meeting at the home of Joseph Barbara in
Apalachin, N. Y., on November 14, 1957. We have also looked into the
pernicious effect of racketeers on the Detroit overall and Chicago
restaurant businesses.
This current investigation will likely be one, however, of the most
important we have undertaken with references to the hoodlum effort
16511
16512 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
to achieve legitimacy through association with unions and business
enterprises.
The coin-operated machine industry in this country is of great
importance. In speaking of this industry we are prone to focus on
jukeboxes, and there are, indeed, an integral part of the industry, with
more than half a million currently in commercial operation today.
There has been no valid estimate made of the enormous profits reaped
in controlled areas by these machines for their owners, operators, and
distributors. There has, however, been in recent years a trend toward
selling more and more goods and services through machines, and these,
too, have been targets for racketeer control.
The revenue from these machines which sell goods and services,
exclusive of pinball machines and other amusement devices, reaches a
figure of some $2 billion a year in this country.
The stakes, therefore, in achieving control of this industry are very
high, indeed. It may be asked what makes the coin-operated machine
industry such an attractive target for underworld figures?
First, the lucrative nature of the business itself; second, the fact
that much of the business is conducted in cash and presents an excellent
opportunity for the concealment and use of illicitly received revenues
from other enterprises such as gambling, prostitution, and the sale of
narcotics; and third, the very nature of the business which makes
establishments in which these machines are most commonly placed sub-
ject to outside pressures.
In attempting to achieve control over the industry, racketeers have
found it necessary to insure what they like to call stability. But
stability' however, in their parlance, has come to mean monopoly.
This stranglehold on the industry has been attempted through collu-
sion between employers and associations with labor unions, some of
which have been created for the sole purpose of acting as an enforce-
ment area. The businessman who tries to oppose this combination
frequently finds an organized drive started against the establishments
with which he does business.
The ease with which some of these unions were created — not only
locals, but entire internationals — the self-appointment of officers and
organizers and the purposes to which these unions have been put, is of
keen interest to this committee, because their obvious purpose has no
relation to the legitimate labor objectives, and it shoidd be pointed
out that many segments of the labor movement itself have actively
fought this type of union operation.
I understand that the International Union of Electrical Workers
and several other internationals, have taken action against this kind of
local union and its operations.
But among the witnesses that we shall have today will be racket
figures from various parts of the country who have shown an interest
in the coin-operated machine industry. That these underworld figures
do come from widely scattered areas is no accident, because there is
virtually no area in the United States in which they have not at least
made an efl'ort to gain a foothold in this industry.
In the subsequent daj's of our hearings, which we expect to last
about 3 or 4 weeks, we will go back and analyze the problems of indi-
vidual areas.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16513
Of interest is the fact that while many of the faces will be differ-
ent, the basic underlying methods of operation will be greatly similar.
Senator Church, do you have any statement to make?
Senator Church. I liave no statement at this time, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All riglit, Mr. Kennedy, call the iirst witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Arthur Kaplan of the committee staff, Mr.
Chairman.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the tnith, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. KAi'ioiVN. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR G. KAPLAN— Resumed
The Chairman. State your name and your present employment.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. Arthur Kaplan, a member of the staff of
this connnittee, sir.
The Chairman. How long have you been a member of the staff ?
Mr. Kaplan. Since May of 1957, sir.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy, you may proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kaplan, you are an attorney?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And a member of the bar in New York and Oregon?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. As well as the Federal courts ; is that right ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. From the period of 1952 to the early part of this
year, have you spent the majority of your time studying the coin-
operated machine business in the United States?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir; I have, with various Government agencies
and in different parts of the country.
Mr. Kennedy. What other Government agencies have you been
with ?
Mr. Kaplan. The Federal Trade Commission, the State of Oregon
attorney general's office, and this committee, and the Internal Eevenue
Service.
Mr. Kennedy. How many different cities have you gone to, to make
a study of this industry?
Mr. Kaplan. Personally I have gone to at least a dozen and a half,
possibly more.
Mr. feNNEDY. Now, could you tell the committee whether we have
found an unusually large number of underworld figures in this in-
dustry ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. One of the very significant characteristics
of the entire industry is the permeation of racket figures in it. No
matter where you go, you are almost certain to find that leading oper-
ators in various areas are hoodlums, and they are people with racket
connections and they are people with police records.
This is not true about the majority of the operators in each area, but
it would be true in many, many places about the leading people in the
area, or the people having the so-called "cream" of the business.
16514 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Tlie Chairman. I think we ought to state right from the outset that
we do not condemn this as a business, as an enterprise, and that it is
legitimate, and particularly vending machines are a legitimate way of
selling merchandise. There is no condemnation of the thing of itself.
It is only in those areas where hoodlums and racketeers and dis-
reputable characters have infiltrated and taken over and dominate and
control it.
Mr. Kaplan. This is exactly true, and one of the big problems we
find is that in many of the metropolitan areas, reputable businessmen
who have been in the industry for many many years are just throwing
up their hands and getting out, because they cannot do business on the
terms they have to to compete with people who have hoodlum connec-
tions.
The Chirman. I just wanted to bear that in mind throughout, that
there are a lot of good people and honest people and it is a legitimate
business in many areas and so conducted that there is nothing wrong
about the business itself. But it has become an attractive enterprise
for hoodlums and racketeers to infiltrate, and in many areas they have
succeeded in doing that.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Kaplan, what are the four major categories
of coin-operated machines?
Mr. Kaplan. The industry breaks down pretty well into the arcade
and amusement devices, some of which are right here. This might
also include some of the gambling devices along with the amusement.
There is the jukebox business which is a large segment of the industry
and furnishes a service, and the merchandise vending, which furnishes
goods and services and ranges from cigarettes to charcoal, and to ice,
and to almost any number of things which go through machines today.
In effect, it is a very significant aspect of the business and of the
economy now and potentially because it represents automation that is
coming in the retailing of goods and services.
I think for this reason also that exponent of the business has become
increasingly attractive to the more enlightened racketeers who know a
good thing, and they are rapidly going in.
Mr. Kennedy. Actually, and there are also, of course, gambling de-
vices per se ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You have gambling devices and amusement machines
and jukeboxes and then the automatic merchandisers of goods and
services ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Is this a major industry in the United States?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, it certainly is in terms of tlie amounts of money
that are concerned.
For example, in jukeboxes alone, you have well over half a million
jukeboxes on location, and with conservative estimates we believe that
something like over $300 million a year goes through their slots. In
the merchandising vending field, you have at the retail value of the
itemS, well over $2 billion worth of goods going through those ma-
chines during the past year.
Mr. Kennedy. And as far as the gambling devices, of course that
is several billions of dollai's, is it?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16515
Mr. Kaplan. It is several billions of dollars, and some of the
ligures we get are astronomical, but it is so hard to verify because of
the element of person involved.
The Chairman. As I understand, the $2 billion applies to just the
vending machines?
Mr. Kaplan. That is just the actual merchandise.
The Chairman. What the merchandising machmes handle.
Mr, Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I wanted to get that in the record.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And we will have some testimony shortly on the
amusement devices as to what the income generally throughout the
United States is on that ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we find that there are connections often between
those who manufacture the jukeboxes and the manufacturer of pinball
machines or some of these other kinds of operations, and could you
tell us a little bit about that ?
Mr. Kaplan. There is an interrelationship of product by many of
tlie manufacturers. You find jukebox manufacturers are making
cigarette machines, and portable washers and various other things,
and a major jukebox manufacturer is today allied with one of the
major vending machine manufacturers, and vending machine oper-
ating companies. You find that the amusement manufacturing com-
panies make a great variety of products, which will also include
gambling equipment.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have some specifics on the latter?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, specific companies, you mean ?
Mr. Kennedy. Well, specific situations where we have found that a
company that is manufacturing some of these amusement devices
also goes into the gambling equipment ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. The Bally Manufacturing Co. manufactures
various kinds of amusement devices, and also manufactures gambling
equipment.
Mr. Kennedy. What is the first company ?
Mr. Kaplan. B-a-1-l-y.
Mr. Kennfjjy. Wliere is that company ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is located in Chicago.
Mr. Kennedy. What is the second company ?
Mr. Kaplan. The Lyon Manufacturing Co. And the third was
the O. D. Jennings Co.
Mr. Kennedy. What does O. D. Jennings Co. manufacture ?
Mr. Kaplan. They manufacture various kinds of amusement de-
vices and arcade equipment and also gambling equipment.
Mr. Kennedy. And the transformation from an amusement device
to gambling equipment then is very easy ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, it is easy both at the manufacturing level and
at the operating level, and indeed we find at the operating level it is
very clearly used as a cover for gambling operations.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, do we find that not only is there an infiltration
of gangsters and hoodlums into some areas of this business, but also
the fact that there is often a very close relationship between so-called
unions and employers in some areas of the country ?
16516 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kaplan. Yes ; that is a very close relationship.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Chairman, we have some charts here which
will explain the terminology that we are going to be using during the
next 3 or 4 weeks, and I think it would be well to get it clarified right
at the beginning.
The second point that we would like to make with these charts is
the relationship that the union has with the manufacturers, and with
the distributors, so that Ave can get that. That is what we are going
to be dealing with during the period of the next 3 or 4 weeks.
So, Mr. Kaplan, will you explain the various charts that we have,
showing the manufacturer and the distributor and the operator, and
then the location ? These are the four basic elements with which we
have had to deal ; is that right ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The manufacturer, the distributor, the operator, and
the location ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Identify the chart. What do you term it ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. We term this chart an outline of the struc-
ture of distribution in the entire coin machine industry. It is com-
mon to all the different components we just mentioned, such as arcade
equipment, amusement equipment, vending machines, jukeboxes.
It shows how the machine gets from its initial manufacturer to the
point where you or I would put a nickel into it, or a dime, or whatever,
to get the product.
The Chairman. Did you prepare the chart, or was it prepared
under your supervision ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. It was prepared under my supervision.
The Chairman. That chart may be made exhibit No. 4.
(Chart referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 4" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 16925.)
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kaplan, first getting into the manufacturers,
what are some of the manufacturers ?
Mr, Kaplan. Well, I will just detail some of the manufacturers of
amusement devices. In the jukebox field, for example, we have
Rockola, Seeburg, AMI, United.
Mr. Kennedy. They would fill the top list ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is correct. These would be manufacturers up
here [indicating]. For purposes of simplification, these lines, the
result of the rest of that distribution pattern would be equally the
same for each of these persons, but in order not to have a crisscross
we concentrated on manufacturers.
The Chairman. In other words, the lines from B to the distrib-
utors indicated are the same lines to apply to A, B, C, D, and E, to
other distributors?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. Each manufacturer would have a distrib-
utor in each of these diiferent cities.
Mr. Kennedy. This is a cliart which would be applicable not only
for the distribution of jukehoxes, but also of pinball machines?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is, in this kind of an oj>eration. Go on to
the next.
The manufacturer makes a machine. Now explain how he gets it
to the distributor and what the distributor does.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16517
Mr. ICaplan. The manufacturer sells to a distributor. In every
instance, the distributor is franchised by the manufacturer, just as
a car distributor is franchised. He will not — in well over 90 percent
of the cases — handle that type of product from any other manufac-
turer. In other words, if he is a franchised distributor for the See-
bur(^ jukebox, the distributor in New York will only handle the
Seeburg jukebox.
He may also handle a cigarette machine made by somebody else,
or a pinball machine made by another factory, but insofar as that
particular item, only that one is handled.
Mr. Kennedy. He operates in a particular area?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. His franchise embraces a territorial alloca-
tion, and he is only supposed to sell in that area. He, in turn, then
sells his jukebox, or his vending machine, or what, to people that
are known in the trade as operators.
These are people who put those machines on what are termed loca-
tions, the location where w^e see it. This would be a bar, a grill, a
tavern, a restaurant, a bus depot, wherever the public will come in
contact with it and use its goods or its services.
It is when it hits this level that you find a distinction because from
the manufacturer to the distributor you had a sale, and there was
a passage of title. From the distributor to the operator you had a
sale and there was a passage of title.
Senator Church. Is there always a sale, Mr. Kaplan ?
Mr. Kaplan. No, sir.
Senator Church. I mean at the manufacturer and distributor
levels are there always sales, or do any of them engage on a leasing
basis?
Mr, Kaplan. Well, some of the distributors do this, but we will
explain why they do this. This has particular significance in the
industry.
But this is what is the normal pattern in the way it is generally
supposed to be. The operator, however, does not sell his machine
to the location where we see it. He leases it, or he puts it in there on
a percentage of the money that goes into the slot.
The advertisements always say, "We install these free," and then
they may go on to say "on a commission basis." But this is also
significant because it is virtually impossible for anybody to buy such
a machine, if you or I were to decide that we could handle the serv-
icing of that machine ourselves, just as we might or might not handle
the servicing of a car or refrigerator.
We would find that we could not buy it as an actual fact. We have
to lease it. This is all part of the pressures coming from the oper-
ator which, in turn, they can put on the distributor to not sell to the
individual. There is just no question about this. People are just
unable to buy those macliines.
This, in effect, helps to keep at least that part of the operation a
monopoly for those particular businessmen.
The Chairman. Let me ask you: The same lines that are drawn
from Chicago to the operator would apply to New York, Detroit, and
other cities ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. It would be precisely the same sort, of
thing, but this is only this way for purposes of simplification.
16518 IMPROPER ACTR^ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. That is just for purposes of illustration on the
chart.
Mr, Kapla?^. Yes, sir. Then you would have the same sort of
operators. You might have more or less, depending upon the city,
and also depending upon extent of control. That we will indicate
in a subsequent chart.
The Chairman. You will explain it further, but actually the op-
erator— well, it works out that he gets a monopoly on these machines
in a given area ?
Mr. Kaplan. A group of operators; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you want to go on with the second chart?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, I think we might. This chart
The Chairman. All of these charts were made imder your super-
vision ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And you propose to introduce them?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. This chart may be made exhibit 4A.
(Chart referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 4A" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 16926.)
Mr. Kaplan. This chart brings down to the city focus what we
have just seen as a national pattern of distribution, so that now in
City X we have representatives of each of, say, the five manufac-
turers, and then we now see what would be their objectives and their
techniques for selling their machines.
Under a normal, free competitive setup, each distributor will at-
tempt to sell his particular brand of machine to each of the operators
who, in turn, are putting them on locations. In other words, this
distributor is going to try to sell to this man, this man, to this man
and this man. He will be in competetion with this man who is trying
to sell his product to these men.
In turn, the operators will, among themselves, be competing for the
right to put those machines on locations. So we will find that this
operator [indicating] has a location here [indicating] and that the
operator over here [indicating] will be attempting, by inducements,
better service, better machines, new machines, or whatever else in their
normal competitive system, will attempt to get this business for
himself.
So you get the locations being in the position of being able to de-
mand better sei*vices and better goods and products from the operators
who service them. However, you don't actually find this condition
to exist.
Mr. Kennedy. Explain about the group on the right, would you
please ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. The one usual exception to this whole free en-
terprise economy would be the man we have listed here as the hoodlum
operator. There may be two or three hoodlum operators in a town
of any significance. But they are never bothered and nobody ever
hits their locations. Nobody attempts to solicit them or to otherwise
take them away.
They are just always well ordered, well taken care of, and well allo-
cated. Nobody ever goes there. Tliese locations, once thoy are gotten,
are themselves in a captive position. They are unable to decide that
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16519
they don't like the machine, they don't like the service they are get-
ting, they don't hke the commission rate they are getting or anything
else. Once they are captured, we find that
The Chaieman. Once the location owner or operator gets involved
with the racketeering element, then he becomes a captive ?
Mr. I^PLAN. Absolutely.
The Chairman. His operation becomes a captive. He is not free to
go out in this area of competition and to select and demand better
service and a better type of machine, even ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I guess this will be developed, but how is the
racketeer able to hold that kind of control over this number of oper-
ators that he may have, or locations that he may have?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, I think the evidence coming into the hearing
will indicate the various techniques.
The Chairman. There will be evidence to show how they are able
to hold them captives and how they are able to enforce this monopolis-
tic control?
JNIr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Additionally, not only are these locations unable to go forward and
call up other businessmen or operators to get a different service or get
a different operator, but these operators will not come in and solicit
this man's location either.
So in effect, even if you had a location who unknowingly or unwit-
tingly dealt with this hoodlum company, and then decided he didn't
like what he was getting, when he starts to call up to get other services
he is just going to get negative results. Nobody is going to come
in there.
This gets veiy widely laiown in a particular area, because it is a
relatively small type business, even in places as large as Chicago, New
York, or Los Angeles, perhaps, or San Francisco. Even in the very
largest centers, the news travels veiy fast. Everybody knows who the
other guy is.
Mr. Kennedy. The ability of the underworld to keep locations is
one of the main attractions that this business has to the underworld ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. Not only is it a main attraction from that
viewpoint, but the fact is that they can make choices as to what are
called the cream locations. They don't want all the locations, but only
the good locations, the ones that produce a lot of revenue.
Additionally, what we have found, and we have studied this going
back as far as 20 years in some cities, there is a continued nibbling away
at the other locations of businessmen who secured them by good serv-
ices, by normally competitive processes.
The Chairman. In other words, in another location not in that
group, if it develops a good business they undertake to move in and
take over ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is exactly right.
The Chairman. They wait until it gets developed and then by their
strong-arm methods attempt to take it over ?
Mr. K\pLAN. Frequently it is not even by strong-arm. It is just a
method of coming in and announcing who they are.
The Chairman. Well, that is strong-arm.
Mr. Kaplan. It has the implication ; yes, sir.
16520 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. There is no one more vulnerable to that than the loca-
tion owners ?
Mr. Kaplan. As a practical matter that is very true, because most
locations are in places like taverns where they want entertainment or
whatever, and these people are always vulnerable to these things.
Mr. Kennedy. They are subject to local pressure, either by the un-
derworld strong-arm methods, the use of a name, or even political
pressure ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir, because they have so many different things
that have to be licensed, even by the absence of a union, such as the
water, the health, the way they dispense services, whether they keep
closing hours, or whether they serve liquor to minors. There are any
number of things by which they can be easily pressured.
Mr. Kennedy. And many of these hoodlums that operate in these
cities have political connections whereby they can bring pressure on
these locations?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Please explain the next chart.
Mr. Kaplan. During the development of this industry
The Chairman. You are now presenting another chart?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit 4B.
(Chart referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 4B" for reference
and will be found in the appendix on p. 16927.)
Mr. Kaplan. During the development of this industry, the oper-
ators discovered that the way they would best maximize their own
profits and achieve certain objectives, and their objectives are to keep
out other operators, to give minimal service to locations, to keep loca-
tions from changing operators so they don't have to keep moving ma-
chines, to pay the lowest possible commission rates, in other words, to
restrain competition in their own favor, this is not necessarily the
hoodlum operator, but it is the businessman group that has sought to
monopolize the business in the particular areas.
They have found that if they organized into an association, they
would have an agreement among themselves not to solicit each other's
location. They would try and allocate trade territories within the city
or in the area in which they operated, and just agree, "We won't go to
your location ; you don't go to ours."
Then if the location decided lie was unhappy with the kind of service,
they also agreed that they would not furnish that service to a location
that requested it if it "belonged" to somebody else.
The Chairman. Wlio organizes the association — the distributors or
operators ?
Mr. Kaplan. This has generally been organized by operators. Usu-
ally it will be the largest operators in the area who seek to freeze what
they have. It is obviously to their benefit to keep evei'y^body else out.
Mr. Kennedy. And they have an agreement. They furnish the
names of their locations to one another?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And then they have an agreement that thej'^ will not
go in, one will not go in and attack the other man's location ?
Mr. Kaplan. Riffht.
IMPROPER ACTIVmES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16521
Mr. Kennedy. Then they have a further agreement that they have
sort of a governing board wliich, if somebody does go in and try to
take somebody's location, that they will meet on that and they will
assess a penalty against the operator who happens to go into some-
body else's location ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And the penalty can be up to 10 times the cost of the
location ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. It is very substantial. .
Mr. Kennedy. Some very substantial penalty against the person
who breaks this agreement ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. The result is that the industry is supposed to be sta-
bilized ; is that right ?
Mr. Kaplan. "Stabilized" is the phrase usually used.
Mr. Kennedy. Go on.
Senator Church. Let me ask this question : This is a kind of cartel
arrangement, then, frequently ?
Mr, Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. Does the operator have, as one of his devices, an
opportunity under the lease with the individual tavern or bar, as the
case may be, the right to withdraw these machines? Is that in itself
a threat to the business because of the numbers of people who expect
to tind machines there, who come there for that reason ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is an excellent point, sir. It certainly is. These
are almost always verbal agreements. In the last several years they
have tried to put in written contracts to protect their locations against
infiltration, but these are not practical. They cannot enforce them
in the courts, really.
It would cost too much to do with the cost of the location involved,
the profits. But what happens, actually, is that it is an agreement
whereby the operator will pull his machine out just if he decides to
pull it out. They will sometimes do this to a location which is not
conforminjT. More signififantly, if a location demands that they take
their machine out, the other operators will refuse to come in and
give him service which, in effect, coerces him into keeping what he has.
They will do it under what they like to think are reasonable re-
straints because they all, of course, have access to lawyers in their
various areas. They might agree amongst themselves that they will
not furnish new service for 90 days. The way they arrange this is
when they set up an association, they will have an office and they will
have an office girl. Everybody is supposed to list the machines with
the office. They call these location lists, or courtesy lists, or experi-
ence lists.
They sometimes cover these by saying, "These are credit experience
lists and that is why we want our other friends to know this so they
will not go into a tavern where they have a poor credit experience."
This is not actually true.
In turn, when an operator gets a call from a tavern or location
requesting a machine, he will call the association and ask for a clear-
ance before he will put his machine in. If this is a location which
another m.ember has just left, then he will not go in until the cooling-
off period is taken care of.
16522 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
They will also function to settle grievances between the operators
and allocate who slioiild have had a right to that location.
Mr. Kennedy. There are really seven major considerations for these
operators getting together like this, are there not?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Xo. 1 would be so that they wouldn't have to buy new
equipment ?
Mr. Kaplan. Tlmt is right.
Mr. Kennedy. They can stabilize it and wouldn't have to compete
with one another to buy new equipment?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. If they don't have to buy new equipment,
they keep the old equipment on the location. The equipment does
not wear out. It does not w^ear out in the time they normally change it
Mr. Kennedy. No. 2, they can give a minimal service to the location
because the location can do nothing about it ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. No. 3, they can pay the lowest commission rates to
the location owner, because the location owner again can't do any-
thing about it if he wants to get a pinball machine or jukebox?
Mr. Kaplan. Precisely.
Ml'. Kennedy. No. 4, tliey can preclude ownership location by the
location owner. He cannot own his own machine by having this
arrangement ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is it exactly.
Mr. Kennedy. He cannot go to anybody else to buy the machine ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. They pressure the distributors by saying "We
are your best customers. If you sell a machine to a location, that will
put us out of business. Don't do it. That will put us out of busi-
ness and we will not buy your machines." This goes all down the
line.
Mr. Kennedy. And the broad category is that it keeps the location
from changing operators, which is stability.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. No. 6 is that you can keep out more operators ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. That is this group here [indicating].
Mr. Kennedy. That is just what you are going to explain now ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. No. Y, he can fix the consumer price ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes. The consumer price would be a nickel or dime
that you put into the machine to get what it dispenses.
Mr. Kennedy. There is no competition. They can charge whatever
they like?
Mr. Kaplan. Precisely. This has happened in many cities. Sud-
denly, by agreement, all machines become dime machines. This
would be thousands of machines.
Senator Church. All of these advantages would be advantages
that naturally accrue when you eliminate competition?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Explain the next point.
Mr. Kapean. There are two things which the operators try to do
which they are not able to do with an agreement among themselves
in an ass(K'iation. They have what in the trade is termed "outlaw
operators." These might be people who believe that they can go into
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16523
the business and they buj- several machines. Usually to be termed
an operator in the business you have to own five machines. If you
own five machines you become an operator in trade terminology.
The Chairman. The same number as we have present here ; is that
what you mean ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir. We are in business, I guess.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. IvAPLiVN. They term these people outlaw operators. They don't
want them coining into the business, because they will add to the
necessary split. Even with the growth of cities and towns there are
usually only a certain number of available locations.
They will want to keep these for themselves. So the more operators,
the thinner the spread and the thinner the break. In an effort to
keep the fellows out, of course, they use various techniques, such as
pressures on the location, but they are not always able to do this, so
these fellows come in and start to hit their locations offering greater
inducements.
In other words, these fellows are bringing back competition. They
can't control that because these fellows will not make agreements
witli them, and they are not in the association. Also, frequently
these will be so-called part-time operators who will be working in a
factory or somewhere else, and servicing maybe 5, or 10 machines at
night, and this they can afford to do at a lesser rate than these other
fellows coming in.
The second thing that they are unable to protect against with the
operator association is the forced sale to them of new equipment. The
interest of the manufacturer and distributor, of course, is to sell new
equipment every year, and the more of it the better. The interest of
the operator is to not buy new equipment. They will frequently
agree among themselves not to buy new equipment or perhaps just
to buy equipment from a particular distributor.
The distributor, in order to get around that, forms what he terms
a whip company, which we have indicated with the rod and the
arrow. This is a dummy operator which is, in effect, a subsidiary.
^AHien he becomes an operator, he sets up a company and sends sales-
men around to the different locations.
Senator Church. What is the term of that again ?
Mr. Kaplan. A whip. That is to whip the boys into line so that
they buy the machines they are supposed to. He sends his salesmen
around from this dummy company to the different locations owoied
by particular operators. They will usually pick the largest operator
in the particular area, and they will usually pick the cream locations
of those operators.
They can tell these very easily. They know what the play is. They
will go into that location and offer any kind of inducement. They
will put the machine in free and let the man take all of the proceeds
for the first month. But even the mere fact that they are offering a
new machine at the same commission rates or the same service makes
it more attractive to the location. The location says, "This is fine.
Take out the old one."
So this man is back in the position where he has to remove his
machines.
When this is successfully done, and perhaps four or five machines
are placed in locations belonging to several leading operators of the
16524 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
association, the distributor will call up the operator and say, "Would
you like to buy some new machines? They are already on location —
your location."
This is generally effective, and they buy the machine, and this is
how tliey are able to force equipment.
In order to perfect a defense against these two techniques, we go
on to the next chart.
Mr. Kennedy. We still have the gangster over on the right.
Mr. Kaplan. Nobody touches him, and he just stays all of the time,
and he grows.
The Chairman. This next chart you are presenting will be made
exhibit 4C.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 4C" for reference,
and will be found in the appendix on p. 16928.)
Mr. Kaplan. The most successful defense that has been set up
against these two people is the labor union, because the labor union
can actually throw its protection around the location.
Now, for example, if the outlaw operator decides to solicit, a
location belonging to this now-unionized operator, he will find that,
assuming the location owner is naive enough to take his machine
there, there will be a picket around that location. Of course, no
matter how much a machine brings in, it is not worth its profitability
to the location owner to lose his beer and lose his milk and food sup-
plies, or even just to have a picket going up and down. But primarily
because he is boycotted in getting his supplies for his business.
The rationalization for picketing the locations that the machine
is then not being serviced by a union employee.
The same thing happens here : You will find the distributor is then
in the same position and he goes out to solicit locations but he is not
able to provide a machine that will have a union sticker on it. As a
consequence that location is immediately vulnerable to a picket, and
once that happens the location changes its mind, and it doesn't want
his machine, whether it is new or whatever else.
Mr. Kennedy. We have found in a number of areas where these
people cannot get into the unions ; is that not correct ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. They are not allowed in the union ?
Mr. Kaplan. Exactly true.
Mr. Kennedy. And if the association will not accept them, the
union will not accept them?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And we found in most areas that the union is set
up under the direction and control of the association, in a great number
of areas?
Mr. Kaplan. I would say in every area we have had an opportunity
to explore, we have never found a union that resulted from employee
pressures or employee desires to be unionized, nor have we ever
found that the union has ever done anything for the employees.
Mr. Kennedy. This has all been set up by the employers them-
selves ?
Mr. Kaplan. In every instance, it is at best a captive labor union.
Mr, Kennedy. Now sometimes tliese two operators out here on the
side, they will set up their own union; is that not correct?
IIVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16525
Mr. IvAPLAN. That is correct. In an effort then, you see, to also be
able to provide a machine with the union label, which is the key to
the policing of the locations, they will subsidize their own independ-
ent union and the distributor will subsidize one. We had some testi-
mony about this when Mr. Cammarata was here.
Mr. Kknnedy. And that union setup by these independent opera-
tors will then start to picket the unions set up by the association
operators.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you might have two sets of pickets picketing
the same location?
Mr. Kai'lan. Yes, and we have also had an instance where we have
had one union picketing another union, actually at its union head-
quarters.
Mr. Kennedy. Then the union which is going to control that is the
union which has the roughest backing behind it, the group that has
either the greatest centralized power or the greatest number of gang-
sters behind it?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, and in many instances these independent unions
have been knocked out purely by a show of hoodlum force.
The Chairman. The one who has the firstest and the mostest; is
that right ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And we found a situation over the period of the
past 10 years where you used to have electrical workers unions, or
some of these other unions, that they are gradually going now into
the Teamsters Union ?
]Mr. Kaplan. Yes. It is a very definite trend right across the
country, and you will find for one thing, reputable unions have real-
ized in many instances that their locals have been used, when they
have granted charters unknowingly, and they have rejected these
people and they wanted nothing further to do with them. They have
stated many times that at first the few employees that are in this busi-
ness don't need unions, and the peculiarities of the business are such
that they are well paid. They are well paid because there are very
few employees that are concerned with a vending operation.
Secondly, we find that a great number of the people in the business
are self-employed, and as a consequence it is not a real problem to
pay these people relatively well in order to maintain a good relation-
ship with their own employees. I don't think we have ever found an
instance where the union scale was in reality equal to, much less above,
what was actually being paid to the men at the time that the union
agreement might have been signed.
Mr. Kennedy. And so that generally it has been also a characteris-
tic that we can label these unions that are associated with this indus-
try as racket unions, not only that they might have a racket figure
at the head of it but the fact that they are unions that are formed not
in the interests of the employees but in the interest of tlie employers.
Mr. Kaplan. I think we can show that in every area wliere we
have had the opportunity to investigate.
Mr. Kennedy. Another characteristic, or let us go through some
of the characteristics of this kind of union.
36751— 59— pt. 46 5
16526 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
No. 1, there are top-down contracts, and the employees are not
consuhed.
Mr. Kaplan. Not at all.
Mr. Kennedy. And often it is just a sweetheart contract, and the
terms of the contract mean nothing.
Mr. ICaplan. They have no relationship to the employee benefits.
Mr. Kennedy. And it is a limited membersliip ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And often the membership is made up of employers
as well as employees ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, it is, and in every case it is made up of self-
employed operators as well, that is businessmen who are in business
for themselves, but are forced to join the union so that they will not
lose their locations.
Mr. Kennedy. No. 3, you would have a grievance board that is set
up so that the servicing will be provided by the union where one
operator happens to go in and jump the location for another operator?
Mr. Kaplan. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. And this is all operated, or the grievance board is
operated through the help and assistance of the union ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes; and, significantly, they term it the "grievance
board," but it is not a grievance board normally Imown to unions.
That is, it does not arbitrate grievances between an employee and
an employer. It arbitrates grievances between two operatoi-s fight-
ing for locations.
Mr. Kennedy. Then there are the location lists, and the operators
provide their location lists to the union, so that the union will know
who is entitled to service.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When we say "service," we mean the right to ask
for pickets to go out and help or assist them if an outside operator
comes in and tries to jump to location ?
Mr. I^PLAN. That is exactly right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then, there are these labels that are placed on ma-
chines, they always work with labels ; is that not right ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. That is a fifth characteristic.
Mr. KJVPLAN. Yes, and there was a carryover actually from the
association technique, because due to the great numbers of locations
that will be in an area, it is hard to walk into a location and see
whether it has the proper operator. If it has the union label on it,
and/or the association label, then that is a persona grata machine.
If it does not, then the pressure is immediately put on the location
owner, "Either get a new operator or we put a picket in," and they do
put a picket in.
Mr. Kennedy. So that gave them an easy way to identify the
machines ?
Mr. Kaplan. Precisely.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, a sixth characteristic
Mr. Kaplan. If I might add on the union label, in many parts of the
labor movement a union label is used to induce patronage of union-
made goods and services, and they rationalize the use of the union
label here. But to meet this argument I think it is very clear first,
that very few people using vending machines ever stop to look at that
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16527
part of it. But more significantly, we find that the operators them-
selves now being in a position where they have to declare their ma-
chines to the local, and additionally having to pay per machine to the
local through whatever device is set up, will underdeclai-e the num-
ber of machines they do have on location so that he does not include
in this declaration the locations that he is not overly concerned with,
in an eifort to save money, maybe 20 percent of their locations, and it is
just patent that if having the union label there would induce patron-
age, they would be delighted to put that extra label on.
Mr. Kennedy. No. 6, the employee's dues are ordinarily paid by
the employer.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, and they are also paid by the employer, whether
through a device directly or indirectly.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, that is what it means ?
Mr. Kapl^vn. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And No. 7, there are unusually high dues ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, when we had Mr. Cammarata here
and Mr. Blumetti from Youngstown, Ohio, we fomid the dues were up
to $40 or $50.
Mr. Kapl^vn. They came to approximately $70 per man.
Mr. Kennedy. $70 over what period of time ?
ISIr. Kaplan. Per month. The dues per man in Cleveland is ap-
proximately $50, and Detroit it is $20.
Mr. Kennedy. We will go into that later on, but we have had the
testimony on these other two.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is another characeristic ; and still another, an
eighth characteristic, is the high expenses of these unions ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Very high salaries, and high expenses that come
from operating and running the union ?
Mr. Kaplan. They have high salaries, and a number of hoodlums
on the payroll.
Mr. Kennedy. The ninth characteristic is the unusually high num-
ber of people with criminal records who are associated with the union.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. Did I understand you to say at this point, Mr.
Kaplan, that these protection associations masquerading as unions
are trending into the Teamsters, into affiliation with the Teamsters
Union ?
Mr. Kaplan. Very clearly, sir. As a matter of fact, in many,
many instances with Electrical Workers locals, and that would have
been the normal craft jurisdiction and had been for years, as a his-
torical development, of either abdicated jurisdiction, or lost jurisdic-
tion, and these locals have gone en masse into the Teamsters with
clearly no evidence of election proceedings or any recourse to the
emploj^ee desiring a change, but just suddenly a charter is issued and
this whole group moves over.
Senator Church. They are finding a home with the Teamsters.
Mr. I^PLAN. They are finding a home with the Teamsters, and in
some instances to indicate that it is done purely at the management
level of the union and/or the association we have interviewed people
who are members of the union, and some of the employees, and they
16528 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
do not even know what union they are in, and they have always
thought they were members of the Electrical Workers, and had not
been for 2 or 3 or 5 years.
Mr. Kennedy. And then, of course, the Teamsters can be far more
effective as far as closing down a location, because of the fact that
they control transportation.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mv, Kennedy. And they can stop the beer and the other deliveries
to the location far more effectively than an independent union or the
electrical workers union.
Mr. Kaplan. More so. And as a matter of fact, one of now "big
wlieeP' Teamster officials who took a vending machine local from the
Electrical Workers to the Teamsters stated at one time under oath,
"If you can't beat them, you have to join them, and this is the best
way to do it."
Mr. Kennedy. Now, we have found these people with criminal
records that were associated with the union, and also with the indus-
try, and this kind of an operation is set up ; is that not correct ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it also correct that probably the top hoodlums
and racketeers or members of the underworld in the United States
over the the past 20 years have been in the coin-operated machine
business?
Mr. IvAPLAN. I think we could establish almost every major rack-
eteer.
Mr. Kennedy. Tony Accardo, and Frank Costello, and Longy
Zwillman in New Jersey, and Jack Drogna?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Eddie Vogel, and Marcello from New Orleans and
Meyer I^ansky, as examples?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
I would just indicate since this machine is here, that at one time
Frank Costello was reputed to be the largest coin-machine operator
in the country. They were talking, howeverj about the slot-machine
operations he had, one of which was down m New Orleans, and in
Louisiana, and at that time he came into a connection with some
political figures, and he put in a whole slew of machines, and these
were made by Jennings.
In an effort to knock out some of the people, the local gamblers
there, raids were initiated by the local sheriff's deputies to smash up
the opposition's machines, but the sheriff's deputies were not suf-
ficiently versed in the distinctions between the machines Frank Cos-
tello put in and the machines of his local competition, and so they
smashed up a lot of Frank Costello's machines.
Immediately thereafter the machines were recalled and this Indian
head was put on tlie outside of the machine, and all of the new ma-
chines that came in had that Indian head put on. So thereafter,
when they had raids, the fellows would know which machines to
smash and which machines to leave alone.
The Chairman. They wouldn't start a war with the Indians?
Mr. Kaplan. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Frank Costello's machines then had this Indian
head on them ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16529
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What is the reason that this industry has attracted
members of the underworld ?
Mr. Kaplan. Well, there are several reasons. First, it provides an
excellent opportunity to convert illicitly earned money to a reportable
capital gain. For example, a man who has made money in narcotics
and he also goes into the coin machine operation or jukebox route,
he can go to a tavern which will be a relatively good tavern and induce
that tavern to take his machine by giving him an under-the-table
payment, and he will say, "Here is a $500 bonus ; I won't report it, and
don't you report it."
This, of coui-se, puts the location owner on a "bite" from there on
out. Thereafter, after he develops a line of these, or a route, he can
sell that after 6 months or after a year, and report his income from
his jukebox operation, but his sale price will include the so-called
goodwill which he has paid for under the table, but which he can now
report as income, because he will increase the sale price beyond just
the use of the machines for the value of the machines that are on that
location.
Of course, the lucrative nature of the business itself attracts these
people. Additionally, it provides a very excellent cover for gamblmg
and other types of activity. ^ . ,
For example, you use the same kind of service facilities to mamtam
various types of <rambling equipment that you use to maintain a per-
fectly legitimate jukebox or a perfectly legitimate cigarette vendor,
and you use the same truck, and the same mechanics, and the same
shop facilities.
In effect, many of them use the same invoices, so that when these
things are shipped and the shipment is illegal, they cover this by pur-
porting it to be a shipment of a juke-box m a crate or cigarette ma-
chine in a crate or automatic vendor in a crate.
Mr. Kennedy. And then another way that these things can be used
is where you have poor locations, and if a person in the underworld
wanted to explain certain amounts of cash that might come from illicit
operations, he can say that this cash came from a number of poor
locations, where in fact it did not ?
Mr. Kaplan. That is exactly true, and he can put out poor machines
and poor locations and have no money coming in, but he is in a cash
business, and who is to say ?
Mr. Kennedy. This is an industry that has been examined both
locally and nationally over a period of the past 10 or 12 years at least,
and yet nothing, really, has been done about it ?
Mr. Kaplan. No; that is exactly true. There is always a continu-
ous flood of complaints by people who newly get into the industry
and who don't know what the score is, or people who are getting fed
up, finally. They will complain. They will complain to the local
attorney, they will complain to the police, they will complain to the
Federal authorities.
For some reason, during the past 10 or 12 years, during which time
there has been some very extensive investigation of this industry, at
all levels, local, State, and Federal, nothing substantial has ever been
done to clear it up. As a matter of fact, the hoodlum infiltration and
the continued concentration, using these techniques, has grown.
16530 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Senator Church. Mr. Kaplan, you mentioned the highly profitable
nature of this industry as one of inducement to the hoodlum penetra-
tion.
Mr. Kji.PLAN. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. Does the operator exercise his control over the
money by actually making the collections and keeping the macliines
under lock and key ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes; all of these machines are built with very sub-
stantial lock arrangements.
Senator Church. So he always has full control over the proceeds?
Mr. Kaplan. Only with the reservation that he must have an honest
employee. But even there the machines have counters in them so
that they know what coins have gone in. It is a very common prac-
tice, incidentally, to talk about top money or taking money from the
top, which means that they will take money before they report it, and
then thereafter take a certain percentage right off the top, and then
thereafter report it.
For example, a couple of years ago in one State they were concerned
with lobbying to keep in various types of pinball devices. Letters
were sent out to all of the different operators throughout the State
in an effort to raise money for this kitty that they wanted to lobby
in the legislature, in which they specifically said, "You take this money
off the top so it is not going to cost you so much, and sent it in to
us, and this is the percentage you will take."
The Chairman. Is there any thing further ?
If not, thank you very much.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Milton Hammergren.
The Chairman. Mr. Hammergren, be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate
select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Hammergren. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MILTON J. HAMMERGREN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Hammergren. My name is Milton Hammergren. I live at
Cross Lake, and part of the tune in Minneapolis. I am semiretired
and presently engaged in a small way in the parking meter business.
The Chairman. Engaged in a small way in what'^
Mr. Hammergren. Parking meter business.
The Chairman. The parking meter business. What is your former
employment or business?
Mr. Hammergren. The Wurlitzer Co.
The Chairman. In what capacity?
Mr. Hammergren. I was vice president and general sales manager.
The Chairman. Thank you.
You waive counsel, do you?
Mr. Hammergren. I do.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hammergren, how long were you with the Wur-
litzer Corp.?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16531
Mr. Hammergren. Twenty-three years.
Mr. Kennedy. When did you first go with them ?
Mr. Hammergren. In 192G.
Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing for them at that time?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I started as a rather young man in the
collection department, in the credit department, then the store man-
ager in the retail division, selling pianos, organs, and radios.
Mr. Kennedy. When did you become sales manager ?
Mr. Hammergren. I went to North Tonawanda, N.Y., in 1939.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you succeed at that time ?
Mr. Hammergren. Homer Capehart, now the Honorable Senator
Capehart.
Mv. Kennedy. You became a vice president then or later?
Mr. Hammergren. No, I became vice president about 4 years later.
Mr. Kennedy. What were your duties and responsibilities when
you became general sales manager ?
Mr. Hc\mmergren. Well, it was my duty to sell jukeboxes, pri-
marily. At a later date we came into organs, which I also handled.
]\Ir. Kennedy. At the beginning you started out with just juke-
boxes ?
Mr. PIammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Had you been having certain difficulties around the
country about getting the jukeboxes distributed?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, in particular areas w-e had a lull in sales.
We had peaks and valleys in our sales figures. In particular cities
we weren't doing so good. We had, at the time I took over — there
must have been a reason for the method of operation — we had well
over 100 distributors. I proceeded to reduce that number to approx-
imately 34, 36, or something of that sort.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell the committee a little bit about what
procedure was followed at that time in some of the cities, and how you
were able to achieve distribution where you had difficulty in the past?
Mr. Hammergren. Any specific city ?
Mr. Kennedy. Well, Chicago. Could you tell us about that?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, let's take Chicago. I had a very intimate
friend named Goldberg, who I became acquainted with when I moved
back to Chicago from Milwaukee. After I entered the jukebox end
of the business, inasmuch as Al Goldberg was a very aggressive and
well connected, so to speak, individual, he could do things, he joined
in with me, and I used him from that day on as sort of a spearhead
wherever I had trouble.
Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean "well connected"? Wlio was
he well connected with ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Mr. Kennedy, I don't know. But if you
wanted things done — as an example, when I first met Mr. Goldberg,
we had a party wall agreement in tearing down a building, and over-
night the party wall agreement was eliminated and that was the end
of it.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat do you mean by party wall agreement ? "What
does that mean ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, razing a building, and one of the owners
didn't want to relinquish the right, and either by strong-arm methods
or by some other — I wasn't there, it happened overnight — the wall
was down and we had no further trouble.
16532 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. He had connections, then, with the underworld ele-
ment in the United States ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, I would say so.
The Chairman. When did you first join up with Goldberg? Let's
get these dates.
Mr. Hammergren. I became acquainted with Mr. Goldberg, in 1934.
The Chairman. When did you start this operation with him ? That
is, where you procured his services and started working with him ?
Mr. PIammergren. Well, the first was as I stated, that razing of
the wall, that party wall agreement.
The Chairman. What date was that ? I am trying to get the date
so we can get the beginning of this.
Mr. Hammergren. I believe that was in the summer of 1934.
The Chairman. All riglit. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. When did he help you in the distribution ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, shortly after I went to North Tonawanda
in the jukebox division. That was in 1939 or early 1940, sometime
in there.
Mr. Kennedy. So you had known of his contacts with this element
and when you took over in 1939 he came in to help you actively ; is that
correct ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. What had been the problem in the past? "UHiy
weren't you able to get the jukebox distributed? Could you give
the committee a little background on that ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, that varied to locals. Sometimes we
called the association, sacred locations by music or phonograph oper-
ators' associations. Sometimes it was unions. It varied in various
cities.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it felt that the way to proceed was to try to get
some of these people who had these connections in these various cities
and they could get it distributed?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, you either had to do that or you wouldn't
sell the jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. It was understood that you either had to make these
connections with these people or otherwise the jukebox wouldn't ap-
pear on location ; is that it ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, in Chicago what was he able to do
for you in Chicago, and who did he bring in there ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, he brought in the Century Music Co. of
Chicago.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was in that Century ?
Mr. Hammergren. Who was in the Century? It was headed by
Mr. Morelli and Mr. Palaggi.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Morelli at that time was head of the first ward,
was he, in Chicago?
ISIr, Hammergren. Either was or he just relinquished that. He
was formerly alderman of the first ward in Chicago.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was Mr. Palaggi ?
Mr. Hammergren. I would term him Mr. Morelli's assistant. They
worked very close.
Mr. Kennedy. Was there anybody else in that company then ?
IMPROPER ACTIVraES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16533
Mr. Hammergren. Well, there was Dennis Cooney.
Mr. Kennedy. AVho was Mr. Cooney?
INIr. Hammergren. Mr. Cooney used to own the Royal Frolics
Cafe in Chicago. That was where I signed up the first deal with
him.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us a little bit about the circumstances
under which you signed a deal with Mr. Cooney ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, that was in the Royal Frolics Cafe, as
I stated.
Mr. Kennedy. That is Dennis Cooney; is that right?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And it was the Royal Frolics Cafe?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir, on Wabash Avenue in Chicago, about
the '200 or 300 block. Mr. Goldberg had me fly in from North
Tonawanda. In fact, I was on my way to Cross Lake for a vaca-
tion. It was time to close the deal in Chicago. Al met me and we
went over to the Royal Frolics, with my wife and other people,
other guests, and we got negotiating for jukeboxes for Chicago
pro|)er. Before I left we sold him 550 jukeboxes.
The Chairman. Sold how many?
Mr. Hammergren. 550.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that a very good sale?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, I believe it was. I think it is the largest
single sale that was ever made, because in addition thereto, there
was what we call remote control equipment, wall boxes, speakers,
and things of that nature that went with it.
The Chairman. What was the date of this?
Mr. Hammergren. That was early in 1940, I believe. I don't
know the exact date.
The Chairman. That was after you became sales manager?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you meet? Right at the Royal Frolics
Cafe?
Mr. Haminfergren. Yes, sir. We met right in the Royal Frolics
Cafe, signed the order. I went about my business. They didn't pay
any down payment.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't that unusual ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, yes, inasmuch as I had never sold any
merchandise previous to that time without any downpayment.
Mr. Kennedy. AVhy did you make the sale to them ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, it was my first sale in the jukebox business,
and it did stagger me that they would sell that amount of merchandise
without a downpayment. But being a peddler, I took the order and
worked it out.
Mr. Kennedy. What did they say to you about it?
Mr. Hammergren. They wouldn't pay anything for 6 months, let
the boxes pay for themselves.
Mr. Kennedy. What conversation did you have about it? Wliat
did they say when you raised the question about the downpayment?
]VIr. Hammergren. Well, I was given some advice by Mr. Guzik
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. who ?
Mr. Hammergren. Guzik.
Mr. Kennedy. "Greasy Thumb" ?
16534 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He was there at the Royal Frolics Cafe ?
Mr, Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How did he get there ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, he gave me some advice which did make
a lot of sense. He said they never threw any curves but they never
caught any, and I would be paid for my merchandise, which went
on to be proven a fact, as they paid not only for that equipment, but
for a couple thousand other pieces in addition thereto.
Mr. Kennedy. When he said they never threw any curves and they
never received any, who did he refer to ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Mr. Kennedy, I really don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. How did Mr. Guzik — how did "Greasy Thumb"
get into this meeting ? Was he going to have an interest, too ?
Mr. Hammergren. I believe so, because later his son-in-law came
into the picture and became a part of the distributorship.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the value of the sale that you made at that
time ? Just approximately.
Mr. Hammergren. $250,000 or $400,000, I would say, or maybe a
little more. My memory isn't too clear on that.
Mr. Kennedy. You say Guzik, one of his relatives, his son-in-law,
came in ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir. His son-in-law, Mr. Garnett, came in
as a distributor.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat is his first name ?
Mr. Hammergren. Frank.
Mr. Kennedy. Frank Garnett?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat was Mr. Dennis Cooney's background ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Mr. Kennedy, I don't know only what I
read in the papers. He is quite a notorious character around Chicago,
from what I have been able to determine. I personally don't know,
but he was connected with the red light district, slot machines, and
things of that nature.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time he was reputed to run most of the — if
there were any — houses of prostitution in Chicago ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is what the papers said ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. From your contacts or connections with these people,
that is what you understood, was it not ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. These are the people. Were they successful in get-
ting the jukeboxes distributed then?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. As I stated, they went on to buy a couple
of thousand in addition to the first 550.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat would that bring in each week ?
How many did you sell to them altogether, this group ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I would have to hazard a guess. I think
it was about 2,700. I don't know. I have been away from the busi-
ness for about 11 years now.
Mr. Kennedy. And those machines would bring in what — some-
thing like $20 a week?
Mr. Hammergren. At least.
Mr. Kennedy. So that is about $54,000 a week ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16535
Mr. Hammergren". That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Which is about $214 million each 3'^ear ?
Mr. Hammergren. If the calculation is rif^ht, that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So this was a rather effective and successful venture?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir. It proved to be a very highly success-
ful venture for the Century Music Co.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find that you had to make these same kinds
of connections in other cities in the country? For instance, New
York, what did you do in New York ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, New York, there we weren't too successful.
That came quite some time later. We had to reorganize and make
changes in the distributorship.
JSIr. Kennedy. Were you having trouble in New York ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. We had what we term as a common thing,
probably an operator's revolt or a boycott to buy equipment.
Mr. Kennedy. They wouldn't bring any of your equipment into
New York?
Mr. Hammergren. No, they wouldn't.
Mr. Ivennedy. They wouldn't sell it there ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, we did sell some. But it didn't produce
what we felt that the territory was capable of producing. We used
to scale those figures by per capita population, so many boxes, and so
forth.
We were falling way short in New York. So we proceeded to make
a change and reorganize and set up a more aggressive distributorship.
Mr. Kennedy, "\\nio did you find was more aggressive in New York ?
IVIr. Hammergren. Well, we put in Eddie Smith, Meyer Lansky,
Bill Bye, and I had a piece of him.
Mr. IvENNEDY. You had a piece yourself ?
Mr. Hammergren. Of Bill Bye; yes, sir. I furnished the money.
Mr. IvENNEDY. And Meyer Lansky ?
Mr. Hammergren. Meyer Lansky and Eddie Smith.
Mr. I^NNEDY. Wlio is Eddie Smith ?
Mr. Hammergren. He is a former Chicagoan. He is deceased now.
He moved to California and passed away out there about 2 years ago.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Who got you in touch with Meyer Lansky ?
Mr. Hammergren. A1 Goldberg.
Mr. Kennedy. A1 Goldberg again ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wlio had you been having trouble with specifically
in New York ? The head of the association ?
Mr. Hammergren. The association. They had a very strong op-
erators' association in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. And they wouldn't let these new machines come in ?
Mr. Hamiviergren. Well, they would let them to a degree, so far as
it was necessary. Again I say it is 12, 14, or 15 years ago. It seems
to me they advanced a percentage of replacement, as they termed it,
which, in our opinion, our percentage, we were the largest in the field,
and we weren't satisfied with that. We used to send out what we
would call stud horse broadsides to locations.
Mr. Kennedy. What is a stud horse ?
Mr. Hamiviergren. A big circular with a little card on it, "If you
want a new jukebox, just fill in the card and send it," and we would get
16536 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
them back at the factory. So we always had a pretty good indication
of the demand or the desire on the part of the tavern owner or the
location owner in regard to what it miglit be, whether or not they
wanted a new box and whether or not — weW, in many instances \\e
would go out and make a check, or we would see that somebody did
check.
Mr. Kennedy. You mean people wanted the boxes but just weren't
able to get them?
Mr. Hammergren. That is right. First of all we had to qualify
them and see whether the location was entitled to a piece of equipment
as costly as a new box or the new installation might be.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the head of the association at that time?
Do yon remember the name Al Denver ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. I believe Al Denver and Sidney Levine,
an attorney, were the two.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that the group that was the stumbling block
initially?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, yes. They called the plays.
Mr. Kennedy. When you brought Meyer Lansky and his group
in, were you able to break through that ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. We were much more successful after we
got reorganized. We had unlimited capital and we were able to get
more boxes out in New York than we ever did before.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he then expand — Meyer Lansky ?
Mr. Hammergren. From New York?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. He was in Philadelphia for a while.
Mr. Kennedy. Had you been having trouble in Philadelphia up to
that time ?
Mr. HAMikfERGREN. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he successful when he was associated there ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. The name of the company was the Emby Co. ?
Mr. Hammergren. The Emby Distributing Co.
Mr. Kennedy. That stood for
Mr. Haminiergren. That stood for Eddie Smith, Meyer Lansky, and
Bill Bye. I think the Y was put on so as to make some sense out of the
name Emby.
Mr. Kennedy. He went down to Philadelphia and he was successful
down there, where you were having the same kind of difficulty?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. Our sales figures jumped. We did a much
better job than we did previously.
Mr. Kennedy. What about in St. Louis? Were you having diffi-
culty in St. Louis ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. We had some, but not as great as some
other areas. We had our problems in St. Louis.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you bring in in St. Louis? Who did you
have make a deal there ?
Mr. Hammergren. I didn't make a deal. Al Goldberg went in with
me. I had a regional manager named Larry Cooper who worked in
St, Louis. That was his territory. He rant into some trouble.
Mr. Kennedy. What kind of trouble did he run into?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, pushing operators around, so to speak,
in the terminology, pushing them around, forcing them to buy mer-
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16537
chandise. It was our distributor down there named Pete Brandt. I
can't substantiate this, but he was threatened and Mr. Goldberg and 1
went down there.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he report to you his being tlireatened i
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. He said he couldn't leave St. Louis.
Mr. Kennedy. Couldn't leave his hotel?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was this man?
Mr. Hammergren. Larry Cooper.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did he say he couldn't leave the hotel ?
Mr. Hammergren. For the reason I stated. He was pushing op-
erators around and somebody called him up and threatened him and
told him he better not leave the hotel.
Mr. Ivennedy. Did he tell him if he left the hotel he would be
killed?
Mr. Hammergiusn. Something like that.
Mr. Kennedy. It was related to you that you were told, were you
not, that if he left the hotel he would be killed ?
Mr. Hammergren. He said that he wouldn't leave the hotel because
he didn't want to be killed.
Mr. Kennedy. All riglit. So you went down there, did you ?
Mr. Hammergren. Goldberg and I went down there and got him
out and Mr. Goldberg straightened out the complaint.
Mr. Kennedy. How were you able to straighten out the complaint?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Mr. Goldberg saw a few people.
Mr. Kennedy. Like who did he see?
Mr. Hammergren. That, Mr. Kennedy, I don't know. There is
only one name that I remember, and that was Happy Ruffa.
Mr. Kennedy. How do you spell that ?
Mr. Hammergren. That I don't know; R-u-f-f-a, or something.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was Happy Rufi'a?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, he was a man from East St. Louis. I
don't know whether he was connected with the association or the
unions or what he might have been with.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he have underworld connections?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you hear the name Buster Wortman ?
Mr. Hammergren. I never met the man.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that he was connected also, or
some arrangements had to be made with Buster Wortman in order to
get your jukeboxes distributed ?
Mr. Hammergren. AVortman, was it?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes, Wortman.
Mr. Hainimergren. I heard his name kicked around, but I never had
any dealings with him.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it necessary to have some meetings with him in
order to get the boxes distributed ?
Mr. Hammergren. That I don't know. Mr. Goldberg handled that.
He saw more than one individual down there. I don't know ; it could
have been half a dozen different people.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find as the general procedure that in order
to get the boxes distributed, that if you didn't bring in some of these
people actually in the company, that you would have to give a certain
16538 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
percentage of what you made down there to some of these miderworld
figures in some of these areas ?
Mr. Hammergren. I don't quite understand you.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, in New York, Meyer Lansky was
brought in. In Chicago, some of these other people that you have
mentioned were brought in.
Mr. Hammergren. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. If you didn't actually get that kind of people in the
company that were going to distribute your boxes, did you find it
necessary, as it was related to you or from your own pei*sonal knowl-
edge, that you would have to make some kind of a payment to the
people in charge of the underworld in the particular city?
Mr. Hammergren. We never made any payments to the people in
the underworld. You referred to Chicago. They were operators.
Mr. Goldberg sold them.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, in St. Louis, what kind of arrange-
ment would you ordinarily have to make if you didn't actually bring
Buster Wortman into the business ? Wliat kind of arrangements would
you have to make with him ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, you picked St. Louis. I am a little vague
on that.
Mr. Kennedy. Let's just take city A, then. Wliat kind of arrange-
ments would you have to make with the people ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, as I related, we sold Chicago without a
down payment. We gave them half a million dollars worth of equip-
ment, or thereabouts, and gave them all the assistance we could, and
personnel wise, service wise, things of that nature.
Mr. Kennedy. After you made the trip down to St. Louis and get
your man out of there, got him out alive, were you able to distribute
boxes thereafter in St. Louis ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. We didn't have too much trouble after
that.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what kind of an arrangement had to be
made down there ?
Mr. Hammergren. That I don't know, Mr. Kennedy. There was a
deal made. I don't know what it was.
The Chairman. Was or was not? Did you say there was a deal
made?
Mr. Hammergren. There was a deal made between Goldberg and
somebody else. I don't know who.
Mr. Kennedy. But from then on you were able to go ahead ?
Mr. Hammergren. Fairly well. We were never too strong in St.
Louis.
The Chairman. It is my understanding that Goldberg is the man
who made the arrangements in Chicago ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. He also made them in New York ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Now we have him in St. Louis working out a deal?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir. And you will have him in a few other
places.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Looking back, was there a considerable amount of
violence in connection with this industry ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16539
Mr. Hammergren. That was spotty. Yes, there was violence, such
as blowing out the windows of the store or blowing up an automobile
or something of that nature, or beat a fellow up.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that part of the characteristics of the industry ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; I would say so.
Mr. Kennedy. Were there also killings ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, there was.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that another characteristic? There would be
extreme violence and if it became necessary, even killings?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, there was only one killing that I actually
knew about.
Mr. Kennedy. Where was the killing?
Mr. Hammergren. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. Kennedy. Where was that ?
Mr. Hammergren, Joliet, 111.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was killed ?
Mr. Hammergren. Lehme Kelley, a big operator, was shot one
Sunday afternoon.
Mr. Kennedy. L-e-h-m-e Kelley ; he was a big operator there ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir; both ways. He weighed 540 pounds
and he operated about 700 or 800 jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliy was he killed ?
Mr. Hammergren. I don't know.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Wasn't his brother killed shortly afterward ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, but his brother was, I believe, attached to
the sheriff's office or something like that. I don't know why he was
killed. He was not a jukebox operator to my knowledge.
Mr. Kennedy. That was Dennis Kelley ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, he had two brothers.
Mr. Kennedy. Dennis is the one, I believe; the brother that was
killed. I will come back to that in a moment.
\\'liat about up in Minnesota? Were you having difficulty there?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. We had trouble around St. Paul-
Minneapolis.
Mr. Kennedy. "What did you do there ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, that being my hometown, a man con-
tacted me by the name of Morris Roisner.
Mr. Kennedy. "\^^io was Morris Roisner ?
Mr. Hammergren. "VVlio was he ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Hammergren. I don't know just what you mean. I have
known him — you asked who was he, but I have known him since I
was a child, practically, because he lived in my neighborhood.
Mr. Kennedy. Had he ever had any difficulties with the law ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. He is a two-time loser.
Mr. Kennedy. What had he gone up on ?
Mr. Hammergren. Income tax, I believe, on both cases. Probably
once was liquor.
Mr. Kennedy. So what happened ? He contacted you. Would you
relate that to us ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, he contacted me and I was quite surprised
and I went up to Minneapolis. Rather, I met him in Chicago at the
Bismarck Hotel, xlfter he contacted me, he had just come out of the
16540 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
penitentiary, and he told me he wanted a jukebox lineup in the Twin
Cities, which, when you say Twin Cities, that meant North and
South Dakota, part of Wisconsin, and part of Iowa, and all of
Minnesota.
So he lined up with a fellow named Sam Taran. They became
Mr. Kennedy. Who was Sam Taran ?
Mr. Hammergren. Who was he? He is a police character with
quite a reputation in St. Paul. He now lives in Florida.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat kind of reputation, when you say he has
quite a reputation ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, he is an ex-pu<rilist.
Mr, Kennedy. Has he had difficulties with the law ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. Many, many times.
Mr. Kennedy. He has three convictions for grand larceny and two
for violation of the internal revenue laws ?
Mr. Hammergren. Bank robbery and what else?
Mr. Kennedy. Seventeen arrests ; T-a-r-a-n ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. So did these two gentlemen go into business then?
Mr. Hammergren. They went into business. They took over the
distributorship and transferred Mr. Bush, who was the distributor
at that time, to Miami, Fla. He wasn't of the mind to go up against
Taran and Roisner. Sam Taran was a former slot and marble table
operator. He had unlimited financial resources. He was very
aggressive.
I still think, although I have been away from the business for years,
I still think he is probably the outstanding merchandiser in the
vending machine business today,
Mr. Kennedy. Where is he operating now ?
Mr. Hammergren. Miami, Fla.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he successful in the Twin Cities ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. More successful than you had been in the past?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he go into some other cities, then ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; he did.
Mr. Kennedy. Where else did he go ?
Mr. Hammergren. He went over to Buifalo for a while and then
into Pittsburgh.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he successful in those two places ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir. Well, not too well in Pittsburgh,
Mr. Kennedy. Buffalo?
Mr. Hammergren, Buffalo, fairly well ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now he is down operating in Florida; is that right?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct ; Florida.
Mr. Kennedy. Whose machines is he distributing in Florida ?
Mr. Hammergren. At the present time ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. Do you knoAv ?
Mr. Hammergren. I am not sure. The last I heard it was Tvockola.
Mr. Kennedy. What about out in San Francisco? Were you hav-
ing difficulties out there ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; we had our problems in San Francisco.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio did you bring in there ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16541
Mr. Hammergren. A1 Goldberg.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did he contact ?
Mr. IL\mmergren. Well, he contacted a fellow by the name of
Jake Elirlich.
Mr. Kennedy. Jake Ehrlich ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Jake Ehrlich is a lawyer in San Francisco ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He represents a number of the people who get into
difficulty with the law in San Francisco ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well
Mr. Kennedy. He is a criminal lawyer ?
^Ir. Hammergren. Well, he is quite a famous criminal lawyer out
on the west coast.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat arrangements did he make then ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Al made his contact with him. How he
made it I don't know. I had never met Mr. Ehrlich up until that
time. We ended up with Mr. Ehrlich's brother, and I believe his son
was in it for a while, in the jukebox operation, and we proceeded to
have a pretty successful operation ; much more so than when we had
Mr. Cochran out there.
Mr. Goldberg acts as distributor for, say, a couple of years, until
he sold out and came back to Chicago. In fact, he lived out there
for about a year.
Mr. Kennedy. What about in Detroit? Were you having difficul-
ties in Detroit?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; Detroit was a problem. We were practi-
cally at a standstill in Detroit.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the reason for that ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I contributed it to the fact that we had a
distributor there who was a horse player, fighting the bottle, who lost
his wife and got all mixed up. We had to replace him. I so told
him and he brought in a man he recommended to take over the distrib-
utorship, as I recall it.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you replace him with ?
Mr. Hammergren. With Bill Bufalino, Sam Tocco, and Angelo
Meli.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was the one you had dealt with up in Detroit?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I met them all, Mr. Kennedy. I didn't
sign up the contract, making them a distributor. I passed on them
after it went through the motions of our company to look it over, and
we used to pull a Dun & Bradstreet report, and sometimes a Hill, quali-
fying them for financing.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the one you had to deal with primarily
in Detroit ? Who was the one who was behind it in Detroit ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I don't know whether he signed the con-
tract or not, but I would say Mr. Meli.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the elder Mr. Meli ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he is
Mr. HamjVIergren. The boys were at that time just fresh out of
school. Mr. Bufalino and Mr. Tocco were just fresh out of school,
as I recall it.
36751— 59— pt. 46 6
16542 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. I^NNEDY. Mr. Meli set them up in this business ?
Mr. Hammergren. I think so. I think it was his money.
Mr. Kennedy. He was a notorious character in Detroit — Mr. Meli ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I don't know about that.
Mr. Kennedy. At one time he was public enemy No. 1 in Detroit.
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. I say personally — I knew about it, but
for me to substantiate that, I can't. I know he was a very successful
Chrysler dealer. That is the way he was presented to us.
Mr. Kennedy. When you had meetings of the distributors, did Mr.
Meli come to those meetings, Angelo Meli ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; he came to one of them, one of them that
I know of.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you identify these pictures ? That would be
meetings where just distributors would come ; is that right ?
Mr. Hammergren. Distributors, or if they couldn't come, their key
personnel, people that were responsible and who could make decisions
for the distributors.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a meeting of the distributors in Sep-
tember of 1946, or thereabouts ?
Mr. Hammergren. I believe so, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Meli attend that meeting? Do you remem-
ber that pictures were taken at that time ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, we took pictures of all our meetings. If
I could see some documentary evidence — I think it was 1946. I don't
know.
Was it 1946 up in Minnesota that you are talking about ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, at Cross Lake, at the distributors' club.
The Chairman. The Chair hands you five pictures. I will let you
examine them. State if you identify them and, as you identify them,
if you do, they will be made exhibit No. 5A, B, C, D, and E.
You may examine the five pictures, and as you identify them they
will be marked accordingly. [Photographs were handed to the wit-
ness.]
Mr. Hammergren. That on your left
The Chairman. The first one you have will be made exhibit No.
5A.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 5 A" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. You are speaking of 5A now. Do you identify
that picture ?
Mr. Hammergren. On the left is Sammy Tocco.
The Chairman. You do identify it ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. On the left is whom?
Mr. Hammergren. Sam Tocco, Samuel Tocco.
The Chairman. That is on your left as you look at the picture ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir, on my left as I am looking.
The Chairman. As you look at the picture, the one on your left ?
Mr. Hammergren. Right. The other is Angelo Meli.
The Chairman. Do you know when and where that picture was
made ?
Mr. Hammergren. I Imow where it was made. It was made at
Cross Lake, Minn.
IMPROPER ACTIVmES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16543
The Chairman. "VVliere ?
Mr. PIammergren. Cross Lake, where I live. That is a distributors'
chib up there.
The Chairman. Do you remember about when it was made ? Just
the year will be near enough, if you can give the year.
Mr. Hammergren. 1946 or 1947.
The Chairman. 1946 or 1947?
Mr. Hammergren. I am not positive of the year. It is one or the
other.
The Chairman. Proceed with the next one.
Mr. Hammergren. Then you have the same two people pitching
horseshoes at the same place. But they are just reversed. On my
left is Mr. Meli and on my right is Mr. Tocco.
The Chairman. That will be made exhibit 5B.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 5B" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Hammergren. I don't know what you want me to identify
here. This is the distributors' club. There are three individuals
there, but I can't see them well enough to make an identification.
The Chairman. Are you unable to identify the three individuals in
that picture?
Mr. Hamimergeen. With any certainty I would hesitate to do so.
The Chairman. But you do identify the building ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes.
The Chairman. Is that where all of these pictures were made, there,
or in that vicinity ?
Mr. Hammergren. So far, those I have looked at ; yes.
The Chairman. All right. That may be made exhibit 5C.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 5C" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Hammergren. The next one was made at the same location.
The man to my left is Mr. Al Mendes, who was the regional manager,
and the other gentleman is Bill Bufalino, of Detroit.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit 5D.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 5D" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
Mr. Hammergren. The second picture is the same people.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit 5E.
(Photogi-aph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 5E" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. Now we have the five pictures identified.
They were all made about the same time ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; they were all made at the same meeting.
The Chairman. The same meeting ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. The negotiations that were conducted for granting
the Wurlitzer distributorship to Meli and this other group, those nego-
tiations were conducted with Angelo Meli, himself?
Mr. Hammergren. I would say all three of them, Angelo Meli,
Bufalino, and
Mr. I^nnedy. ^Yho was the dominant force ?
16544 IMPROPER ACTrV'ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Hammergren. Mr. Meli.
Mr. Kennedy. These other two were younger boys who were just
getting started in the business?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes ; that is correct.
]Mr. Kennedy. Did you get the impression that he was setting them
up in tliis business?
Mr. I lAMisrER(;REN. That is correct.
Mv. Kennedy. This is of some importance, Mr. Chairman.
What about Ohio? Could you tell us what the situation was in
Ohio? In Detroit you were successful after you made this arrange-
ment.
Mr. Hammergren. Well, in Ohio that didn't follow. We were never
successful in Ohio.
Mr. Kennedy. But you had been with Mr. Meli in Detroit?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened in Ohio? Would you tell us what
the situation was in Ohio, and what the problem had been in Ohio?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I don't know what it is at the present time,
but when 1 was in the picture Ohio was a market which it seemed
almost impossible to penetrate. We tried various ways and means to
break into Ohio, but they had an oi)erators' association over there
which was very, very effective. That is, they had all the operators of
any consequence, and they told you pretty much what to do.
We tried to get, as an example, 30 percent replacements, and they
told us they would give us 10. We proceeded to try our own methods,
and I again sent Mr. Goldberg over there. He rented a store and put
a man in there and we left in a couple of days.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did you leave in a couple of days?
Mr. I Iammergren. Well, they blew out the windows in the store, and
we couldn't get anybody to go over there and go to work.
Mr. Kennedy. Don't you understand or do you understand from
the industry that the situation in Ohio is still, at the present time,
just about the same?
Ml-. Hammergren. The last I heard, Mr. Kennedy, it has not changed
at all.
The Chairman. Does that mean that some group over there has a
monopoly on this business?
Mr. Hammergren. I would say so; yes.
The Chairman. And they maintain that monopoly by the strong-
arm methods you have referred to?
Mr. Hammergren. They did when I was in the business. I say they
still do, but am just guessing.
Tlie (^iiAiRMAN. That is your information that they still do?
Mr. Hammergren. That is right.
The Chairman. You know they did ?
Mr. Hammergren. I know they did, but I am removed from that
business now.
Mr. Kennedy. ^Yho did you send in there? Did you send a fellow
who could take care of himself?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Al Goldberg wouldn't send anybody in
there that didn't have the reputation of being able to take care of
himself, but it was a little bit too hot to handle.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know tlie man who was sent in there?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16545
Mr. Hammergren. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know his reputation or his background ?
Mr. IL\MMERGREN. No. I woukl imagine he was a pretty — as they
call it — heavy man, that he could take care of himself. I don't know
who he was. I might, if 1 had some way of refreshing my memory.
The name, I think, can probably come back to me. But I don't recall
it now.
Mr. Kennedy. Was his car blown up also as well as the windows of
the store blown in ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, as I recall.
Mr. Kennedy. He didn't want to stay there?
Mr. Hammergren. No. He got out of there in a hurry.
Mr. Kennedy. Whereabouts in Ohio?
Mr. Hammergren. Cleveland.
Mr. Kennedy. Where does this group operate through Ohio?
Mr. Hammergren. All through the State. They were strong in
Cincinnati as well as Youngstown. I presume tliey operated all
through the State, except, maybe, some of the much smaller towns.
Mr. Kennedy. Who are the dominant figures?
Mr. Hammergren. At that time ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Hammergren. Well, the largest operator was a fellow named
Leo Dixon.
Mr. Kennedy. He is still active in the operation ?
Mr. Hammergren. No. I don't believe he is in Ohio at all any
more. The last I heard I think he broke it up and — I think he broke
up his operation, sold it off, and became a distributor for a competitor.
Mr. Kennedy. Is he still operating in Ohio ?
Mr. Hammegren. No. I think they took him apart.
Mr. Kennedy. Not literally.
Mr. Hammergren. No, I don't believe so, but financially. They
took his operation.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the other dominant figure ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, Bill Presser is in that picture.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand it was through the efforts of
Presser that the industry remained in the condition that you have
found it ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, I don't know if I ought to give him all
that credit, but I think he had quite a bit to do with it. He was
quite a factor when Mr. Dixon and the association operated and the
Ohio Music Merchants Association was in full bloom.
Mr. Kennedy. What about in Florida? Did you ever go down
there?
Mr. Hammergren. Did I ever go to Florida ?
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever have any problems in Florida?
Mr. Hammergren. No, not too much. I had Sam Taran down
there after a while.
]\Ir. Kennedy. This is the fellow that you had up in the Twin
Cities ; is that right ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. He was getting too much publicity on
trying to get naturalization papers.
Mr. Kennedy. So you sent him down there ?
Mr. Hammergren. I got him out of Minneapolis and St. Paul.
16546 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Was he successful in Florida ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. Still is. I imagine lie is No. 1 down
there.
Mr. Kennedy. What about these whip companies? We have had
some testimony on those. Did you use that kind of an operation at
all?
Mr. Hammergren. Did I ?
Mr. Kennedy. Your company, the Wurlitzer Co. ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, they were part of it, and a distributor, if
you are locked out, they had a sacred location agreement, and if we
found out about it, we would tlirow in a lot of equipment, put it out
on location, get solicitors to get the locations, follow up on these
cards I referred to before from the circulars that were sent out to
locations, and we would create operations.
Mr. Kennedy. Why didn't you use the whip company technique
in Ohio?
Mr. Hammergren. We did, but we didn't get too far with it.
Mr. Ivennedy. It was just too tough ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is right. We tried it very strenuously but
we never made it.
Mr. Kennedy. And you say on occasion where it was necessary,
muscle was used ; is that right ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, what do you call muscle, Mr. Kennedy?
I don't know.
Yes, you would have to use some force; as I related, Cleveland
was certainly force. St. Louis was force, I would say.
Mr. Kennedy. Were company officials upset about the use of force ?
Mr. Hammergren. Company officials, of which I was one, yes, we
didn't like it, but we still had to sell jukeboxes. We all knew about
it, and we knew what the problems were. We tried to go along with
it the best we could.
Mr. Kennedy. Even if it became necessary that somebody was
killed during the course of it ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, that is pretty broad, Mr. Kennedy. I
don't think we would condone that knowingly, no.
Mr. Kennedy. I mean if somebody, just in the course of trying to
get your boxes distributed, if somebody was killed, that was taken
as part of the trade ?
Mr. Hammergren. That is one of the liabilities of the business, I
would say.
Mr. Kennedy. You had 300 of these machines a day coming off
the line; is that right?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, our top year, as I recall, and again it is
memory, I think was about 37,000 for 1 year, right after the war.
Mr. Kennedy. And there was a question of getting those out ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes. They come off the production line pretty
fast, and we have had no place to store them, so we sold them, and
shipped them out to distributors.
Mr. Kjinnedy. And the people that you found as a general rule —
the only people that could get this distribution achieved were these
people with the underworld connections, as a practical matter?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, that is true.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you explain why that would be so? Is that
because the locations are so vulnerable to this kind of pressure?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16547
Mr. Hammergren. Can I explain why it was so ?
Mr. KJENNEDY. Yes, why the underworld figures would be so much
more successful in getting boxes distributed than an ordinary citizen.
Mr. Hammergren. Well, not being one, I would just have to guess.
They have connections, they were able to do things that the ordinary
individual wasn't able to do in a big metropolitan area. They had
unions and associations at their disposal.
I don't
Mr. Kennedy. There is just one point that I left out in your situa-
tion in Chicago. Involved also in that company with Cooney and
Morelli, and Jake Guzik's son-in-law, was also Tony Accardo, was
he not ?
Mr. Hammergren. Well, that question has come up.
Mr. Kennedy. We have some documentation indicating or showing
that he was
Mr. Hammergren. I believe, Mr. Kennedy, that he was presented
once or was coming into the picture, but it never, to my knowledge,
ever came to pass. He might have been in there and I didn't know
about it.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he with the distributing company ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He was with the distributing company ?
Mr. Hammergren. No. That is where they were trying to get him
in. I know he had calling cards made up and things of that nature.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't the distributing company called Illinois
Simplex Distributing Co. ?
Mr. Hammergren. And Chicago Simplex.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't that Goldberg's own company ?
Mr. Hammergren. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. We find from an examination of the records that
Tony Accardo was on the payroll of the Illinois Simplex Distributing
Co., of Chicago.
Mr. Hammergren. Well, that could well be.
Mr. Kennedy. You don't know definitely ?
Mr. Hammergren. I don't remember that. I know that there was
cards printed up, and I know that he was going to be associated;
but what happened, I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might say that after this witness
we expected to have Mr. Lansky. He had been subpenaed to appear
before the committee regarding his activities in New York. We will
be going into them with some other witnesses when we get into the
New York area, and his ability to be unusually successful in New
York, and the methods that were used by his company. He has become
ill, however, and has given us a doctor's certificate. We are having
him examined by a physician of the Government, the Public Health
Service.
The Chairman. What was his name ?
Mr. Kennedy. Meyer Lansky.
The Chairman. Is that the one we had trouble locating for quite a
while?
Mr. Kennedy. No. He has been under subpena for some time.
The Chairman. Are there any questions of this witness ?
Senator Church. Just one, Mr. Chairman.
16548 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Just SO that I can see this picture clearly, your interest, and the
interest of the Wurlitzer Co., was to sell machines ?
Mr. Ham^iergren. Correct.
Senator Church. And you were willing and ready to deal with
whoever could arrange things in any given city in such a way as to
be a purchaser of your machines ?
Mr. Hammergren. All at the disposal of the machines; that is
correct.
Senator Church. What arrangements these distributors with
whom you dealt made with individual operators within the city you
didn't pursue ?
Mr. Hammergren. No.
Senator Church. And whether or not these distributors themselves
were operators, whether they leased or just what methods they might
use — these were matters that were not of any particular interest to
you. What you wanted was results and results meant purchases of
your machines?
Mr. Hammergren. That is correct.
Senator Church. And where you encountered a city where pur-
chases were not being made in large quantities, then you went in to
deal with people who could change that picture, and typically, these
people were, or involved with these people were underworld figures?
Mv. Hammergren. That is correct.
The Chairman. You will remain under your present subpena. It
may be necessary to recall you at some future time during this
hearing.
If you will acknowledge this recognizance, it will not be necessary
to resubpena you. You will be given reasonable notice of the time
and place where further testimony from you by the committee may
be desired.
Do you accept that recognizance ?
Mr. Hammergren. I do.
The Chairman. I do not know whether you will encounter any
difficulty, but if you do in the meantime, you are under the jurisdic-
tion of the committee. Let the committee know about it.
Mr. Hammergren. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. All right. You may stand aside.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
The Chairman. I think it is time for the recess.
The committee will stand in recess until 2 :30.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess:
Senators McClellan and Church.)
(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the select committee recessed, to re-
convene at 2 :30 p.m. the same day.)
afternoon session
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
afternoon session were Senators McClellan and Church.)
Tlie Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. King and Mr. John Constandy. And I would
like to have both of them appear.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16549
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you
shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. IviNG. I do.
TESTIMONY OF RUFUS KING
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Kino. My name is Rufus King, and I reside in Chevy Chase,
Md. I am an attorney practicing in the District of Columbia, in the
firm of Rice & King.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. Do you have counsel, or
do you waive counsel ?
Mr. King. No, Mr. Chairman. My partner, Mr. Rice, is here, but
he is certainly not here in the capacity of counsel to me.
The Chairman. I asked you that just to assist you.
Mr. King. I am not here pursuant to a subpena, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you. You have a prepared statement, have
you?
Mr. King. I do. I will make some amendments, but I prepared a
basic statement for the committee.
The Chairman. Do you wish to read the statement or just have it
printed in the record at this point and then comment on it?
Mr. King. No, it is fairly brief, and it is background for the dem-
onstration I am going to give, and I would like to read it.
The Chairman. I think you had better read it.
Mr. Kennedy, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. King, you were one of the assistant counsels
for the Senate Crime Committee, the Kef auver Committee ?
Mr. King. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were special counsel for the Senate Dis-
trict Committee on Crime and Law Enforcement in the 82d Congress?
Mr. King. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You have also served on other congressional investi-
gating committees, have you?
Mr. King. Yes, sir, I have.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been a consultant to the American Bar
Association Commission on Organized Crime?
Mr. King. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1952 and 1953. And you were the draftsman for
the model antigambling law adopted by the National Commissioners
on Uniform State laws m 1953 ?
Mr. King. Yes. That has been enacted in, I believe, two or
three jurisdictions now.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been chairman, or you are chairman at
the present time, of the section on criminal law, of the American
Bar Association?
Mr. King. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You are a member of the American Law Institute?
Mr. King. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You have this statement that gives a little bit of
backgromid. In order to understand, we had some testimony on
16550 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
jukeboxes, and first Mr. Kaplan's testimony on both jukeboxes and
on coin machines, the pinball machines, and how they are operated
and how they are distributed in various sections of the country, and
then we had Mr. Hammergren's testimony on the jukebox situation.
In order to understand the coin machines, and why they attract
the kind of element that we talked about this morning, we would have
to have some discussion about their operation. Mr. King is being called
in that connection, and he has this background statement about the
evolution of pinball machines into this last machine called a pinball
machine, which we will demonstrate and go into.
Mr. King. Mr. Chairman, there is one other point. I am in the
general practice of law, and I woud like to show on the record that
my law firm represents one of the manufacturers in this field. I am
not here representing that manufacturer, but I think that the record
should simply contain that.
The Chairman. Do you want to identify that ?
Mr. King. D. Gottlieb & Co.
Mr. Kennedy. They manufacture just amusement devices?
Mr. King. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. They don't manufacture any gambling machines ?
Mr. King. That is correct.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. King. Mr. Chairman and Senator Church; a variety of ma-
chines which operated by the insertion of a coin were in use in this
country as far back as the beginnings of the 19th century. One might
say that these were the first forerunners of the automation movement,
substituting the services of a machine for clerks and cashiers in the
sale of merchandise and services. These early machines were very
simple devices — penny candy venors, scales, nickelodeons, and so
forth — but they performed the two functions of all coin-vending
devices :
( 1 ) They took the money from the customer ; and
(2) They delivered some kind of consideration in return.
Around 1890, a brilliant innovation was developed from these coin-
vending machines : a machine for gambling. A man named Charles
Fey in San Francisco, and one Herbert Mills, in Chicago, began to
produce these machines just after the turn of the century. The ma-
chines still performed the two basic functions of the vending machines,
namely taking a coin and returning a consideration, but with an added
feature — the introduction of an element of chance.
The result was that the consideration returned would vary auto-
matically by chance on successive operations of the machine, or, in
short, the machine could pay oQ winners and jackpots. These were
the first "one-armed bandits," and they were an instant commercial
success.
Attached to the statement which I have submitted to the committee
there is an appendix of representative ads from the trade journals
in this industry. The Billboard, going back over the years, giving
pictures and advertising material on some of these machines. I shall
not allude to it again, but the references are in the statement.
The Chairman. The appendix, for our purpose, may be made
exhibit 6.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 6" for reference,
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16551
The Chauiman. That is made exhibit 6 for reference.
Proceed.
]Mr. King. For a small investment, the proprietor of any public
place with this one-armed bandit could set up a mechanical gambling
operation that required litle maintenance or attention and that always
produced revenue for the "house."
As someone said, it introduced commercial gambling on a nickel
basis. Vast fortunes were made in the production of these machines,
and a substantial industry came to be founded on them.
But they soon came in conflict with the public policy of many juris-
dictions against lotteries and gambling. Thus began a half-century
struggle between the gambling machine interests and the public au-
thorities, and that struggle is still going on today.
In this struggle, the industry has proved itself marvelously ingeni-
ous. Gambling laws were often chaotic and sometimes indifferently
enforced, and it can fairly be said that the machinemakei-s have had the
best of it most of the time.
As soon as one new device had been taken through all the appeals
courts and outlawed, the industry would spawn another one. And it
would start the whole process again.
The appearance of the old one-armed bandit was changed so it
looked like a floor vendor. There are some models here, and I wiU
illustrate this later as I step over there, but away over on the far
right is the original version of the one-armed bandit, and the next
one is a floor model, what is called a console. The same functions as
the one-armed bandit are j)erformed by this console that I am re-
ferring to now.
Machines were then made to pay off in redeemable coupons or tokens,
so that it could be argued that they gave nothing of value. Then they
were combined with a vending device which gave mints or gum, so it
could be argued that they always gave value and were therefore bona
fide vendors, and all kinds of simple plays requiring some kind of skill
were combined with them so it could be claimed that they were re-
warding skill instead of paying out by chance.
Behind each of these things that I am touching with a sentence, there
are books and books of case law, injunctive actions, every one of these
innovations enabled the machine producers and the distributors to
go into court, often get an injunction there and move in and mop up
with a machine before the injunction was raised against the enforce-
ment of the gambling laws.
When electric models came along — and this was in the early
thirties — the originals were all spring motivated — the chance-deter-
mining reels which you see on the one-armed bandit over there were
replaced by a series of electric circuits concealed within the machine,
and other features such as multiple-odds plays were added to the
machine. Incidentally, this multiple-odds feature which gives a player
successively higher odds for the insertion of additional coins before
the machine is actually played, is still one of the plainest marks of a
gambling- adapted machine, for the additional deposits have nothing
to do with the play or amusement features.
I have a pocketful of nickels, and I will be able to demonstrate how
you drop a nickel and nothing happens except some lights flash, and
you drop another nickel and the odds increase. You can do that sue-
16552 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD
cessively up to 20 or 30 nickels, and then play the play of the machine.
The Chairman. Do you have a key so you can get your nickels back ?
Mr. King. We do, Senator.
A bright new field of opportunity opened for the gambling ma-
chine industry when the first pinball games came on the scene early
in the thirties. These games traced back to the old Victorian parlor
game of bagatelle, and the first models were toylike penny amuse-
ment devices. But they were soon followed by more complicated
machines that paid winners off in coins, and this set off a new wave
of skill versus chance opinions in the appeals courts.
Then in the late thirties came another important innovation, a
free-game mechanism that permitted the winner of a high score to
play additional games by working the coin chute without inserting
more coins. This raised a question whether a free game, per se, on
an amusement device was a thing of value or whether it was only part
of the amusement feature. Most jurisdictions have held it was the
latter, so that the free-game pinball machine which awards only a
right of replay has won acceptance as a bona fide amusement device
very widely.
This play machine, this amusement machine, blossomed with more
and more play features, traps, and gates, and kickers, and I will be
able to demonstrate some of these, and flippers, and fancy-colored
schemes, and it has remained a very popular device wherever it does
not compete with its gambling counterparts.
I wish to emphasize that when the gambling type of machine
invades a territory, the amusement type of machine disappears, so
that in the studies your committee conducts in connection with this
phase of the coin-machine industry, I venture to say that you will
never find the gambling adapted kind of machine operating in any
substantial numbers in the same area where you will find the amuse-
ment-adapted types of machines.
But as might have been expected, the amusement pinball machine
soon had its gambling counterparts, thanks in part at least to what
was perhaps the most important innovation of them all, the conver-
sion of the free-play device that I have iust mentioned into a mecha-
nism for recording payoffs to winners. This was done by adding what
are known in the industry as a replay meter and a knockoff button.
I stressed at the outset that all gambling machines must perform
three functions: They have to take the player's money, apply an
element of chance, and control the return consideration, or the prize.
In tlie beginning, the control of the payoff or prize was easy, be-
cause the machine simply spit out the winnings in coins. Two of
these machines over here actually have the coin chutes that drop the
winnings out to the players.
But when the various subterfuges started, and as the machines
began to be owned by operators instead of location owners, as coun-
sel explained this morning, the split in the ownership and the owner-
ship of the location, another serious problem developed. The ma-
chine then had to control not onlv the payoff to the winner between
the machine and the player, but also the division between the operator
who is the actual owner of the device, and the location owner.
With redeemable tokens and coupons which I have mentioned, this
division was still easy, because the location owner paid the whinners
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16553
off and then cashed the coupons or tokens back against the contents
of the machine. But these tokens were quicivly hekl to be tilings of
vakie for the application of the gambling laws, and therefore out-
lawed, leaving the payotF problem unsolved.
A w^ay had to be found for the machine to make a tamper-proof
record of payoffs without giving anything whatsoever directly to the
player. Without this, the operator could not control the location
owner, or protect the proceeds of the play. I am talking now, of
course, about a problem which is only important in jurisdictions where
gambling machmes are illegal, but this might be a point to step out of
my text and point out to the committee that three of these four ma-
chines are illegal. I am not sure about Alaska, but they are illegal in
47 of our 48 States, with Nevada being the 48th, and with the exception,
also, of two counties here in Maryland. So that this industry, except
where it operates in Nevada and in these two counties of one State, is
operating entirely in contravention of local laws.
Mr. Kennedy. But, just interjecting there, we have found, or you
know that these kinds of machines, despite the law, are used very
extensively in certain sections of the United States.
Mr. King. Yes, indeed. I am by no means suggesting that this is
not a substantial industry and in fact I have some figures which I
am going to offer the committee, but I want to emphasize that talking
now about the gambling-adapted machines which I am going to try to
distinguish from the amusement type, wherever they operate in 47
of the 48 States and two counties, they are operating in contravention
of the State and local gambling laws.
Mr. Kennedy. There is one city area where there are more of this
gambling kind of machines, and where more gambling stamps have
been purchased for these machines than they have in Reno, for
instance.
Mr. King. I am very sure that that is the case.
Senator Church. These three gambling machines, are these the
three machines on our far left ?
Mr. King. I was going to play a little game and ask you to identify
vehich was which.
Senator Church. We will play with you.
Mr. King. I shall demonstrate, and I am going to take a few min-
utes, if the committee will permit me, and actually demonstrate liow
they operate.
The two machines that are closest to me are the amusement versions
on the far side, and the gambling versions on this side, and these are
the current models that are in production and operation through the
country.
I am going to take a little time to demonstrate the differences in
those two machines.
But I was emphasizing — I am talking only about jurisdictions where
gambling machines are illegal, and it is not too much to say that in
such jurisdictions organized gambling machine operations would vir-
tually have ended, if this free-play conversion device had not come
along.
I am going to explain these devices very carefully, because under-
standing them is still the key to understanding the gambling adapta-
tion of these machines that are currently in use.
16554 IMPROPER ACTIYITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
If a player wins some free games on one of these machines and
does not use them, the game has to be removed before the machine
will start earning again. On the amusement models which never
award more than a few games, this can be done simply by working
the coin chute. But on the gambling models, which will award up to
several hundred free games — this one goes to 899 free games, this one
closest to me — the machine is cleared by an electric circuit operated
by the knockoff button somewhere in the back or bottom of the ma-
chine and out of sight.
Wlien the games are cleared in this fashion, a meter, locked inside,
records the number of games that are taken off, and the result is that
the location owner can make the payoff, push the button, and thus
make an accurate record within this locked mechanism of the amount
that he has paid off. When the machine is opened, he is reimbursed
from the proceeds according to the figure on the meter.
I might note we are not talking about small change here. One of
these modern gambling machines in a good location, like this one right
here, will gross up to $400 or $500 per week. That is one machine.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Let me interject there. For instance, on this ma-
chine where you get up maybe to 200 games, and you are able to run the
machine up so you get 200 free games, you can then go to the tavern
owner and say, "Instead of 200 free games, you give me a nickel or a
dime as equivalent to that."
Mr. King. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he gets the money for that, and the owner of
the tavern comes and punches the knockoff button and those 200
games run off ?
Mr. King. I shall demonstrate that.
Obviously, you can play free games on either of those machines
by pushing the button and it sets the machine up to play again, but,
obviously, no one is going to play 500 games. You would wear your-
self out.
This is one of the several indexes that I am going to point out for
differentiating between the two. The other machine will only give
five free games.
After World War II — and it is fair to record here that nearly every-
one in all branches of this industry converted his plant to creditable
war production for the duration — the country was flooded with a
gambling-adapted pinball machine that came to be known as the "one-
ball." This looked like a pinball table and that third macliine over
there is a one-ball. But it had the electric chance-determining cir-
cuits inside. That is the equivalent of the old drum and reel, but an
electrical wheel and circuit inside, and it gave multiple odds for addi-
tional coins. That is the feature that I mentioned before, and it paid
off by means of the knockoff button and replay meter.
The player shot a single ball to complete the play after he had de-
posited his coins to get the odds, and this was actually no more than
pulling the handle of the old "one-armed bandit." It just completed
the play by going through the motions of this pinball play.
Tliere were, of course, more court decisions to establish that these
one-ball machines were not games of skill, and they operated on an
element of chance. But they are finally virtually driven off the
market as gambling law enforcement caught up with them.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16555
This is an antique, and you don't see that machine in operation
anymore. And in 1953 these one-ball machines were held to be gam-
bling devices within the terms of the Johnson Act, the Federal slot
machine law which Congress passed in 1951, prohibiting the inter-
state transportation of slot machines.
The successor to the one-ball machine is the bingo or in-line ma-
chine, which is the machine right here, which gives the player five
balls, like its amusement counterpart, but which has all the gambling
features that I have referred to, multiple-chance selectors, multiple
odds given for additional coins, the knockoff button, rej)ay meter con-
trol for payoffs.
There have been a number of adverse decisions concerning this
machine, including one by the Supreme Court last year, in United
States versus Korpan, holding that it is a gambling device subject
to the $250 Federal tax stamp, rather than the $10 tax stamp on
amusement ^ames.
In my opniion, the days of this machine are numbered, and the
industry will doubtless come up with something else.
At the request of counsel, Mr. Chairman, I have made some esti-
mates which are only well-founded estimates from inquiries within
the industry, as to the economic underpinnings of this industry, and
I would like to give those also as a part of my statement.
Since World War II, the production of amusement pinball games,
that is this second machine over there, has been fairly steady. It
stayed in the range of 20,000 to 25,000 per year. At $300 a machine,
which may be a little high for the initial cost, this would be a gross
of $71/2 million a year for the production of just this amusement pin-
ball machine.
To give you some comparative basis, the jukebox production, al-
though it went way up after the war, has stayed down aroimd the
neighborhood of 40,000 or 50,000. That is, a few more units per year
than that amusement pinball.
Bowling and arcade equipment, which is the other nongambling
amusement kind of thing, bowling alleys, shuffleboards, guns, the
sore of things you see in amusement arcades, have stayed in the range
of 30,000 to 40,000 units per year.
Immediately after the war, slot machines, which in their heyday
had been up to no one knows how high — about 60,000, 70,000, or
80,000 a year — immediately after the war they were produced on
the basis of perhaps 20,000 per year. The one-balls were produced
at the rate of 20,000 to 30,000.
The slot machines fell off in the first 2 or 3 years following the war.
The one-ball machine took its place and production of those stayed in
the range of 30,000 to 40,000 miits per year, and they literally flooded
the country. They simulated the pinball machine enough so that they
were very widely accepted and they were an efficient, fast, gambling
machine.
Mr. KEN>rEDY. The one-ball machine is really a slot machine that
is lying down ; is that right ?
Mr. King. Yas; I think that is fair. It has also been called the
one-ball bandit, as law enforcement people began to recognize it
and catch up with it.
Early in the 1950's the production of these bingo machines that you
see here reached the neighborhood of 30,000 to 35,000 miits per year.
16556 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
I believe that the production rate is now down to perhaps 10,000 or
15,000, because of these pressures that I have indicated, tlie gambling
tax, a number of seizures, a number of cases. But tliat machine is
still being produced at the rate of, say, 10,000 to 15,000 units per
year.
Taking a rough average life of one of these pinball products as 5
years, which is in accord with general practice, and assuming a 25,000
a year steady production for the amusement pinball, this would mean
that there are approximately 125,000 in use in the country.
This jibes fairly well with the Federal $10 revenue stamp which is
issued on a little over 300,000 units, the rest being in these other cate-
gories of arcade equipment.
An average pinball machine in a fair location, in a route of 50, the
average perhaps will be $25 per week per machine, and that might be
a little high, spread out over the country.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the amusement ?
Mr. King. I am talking now exclusively about the amusement pin-
ball machine, the second one in the row here. Estimating that the
average production of one of these machines is $25 per week, applying
that on an annual basis to the 125,000 in use, it would mean that these
machines gross, and I emphasize again this is a rough figure, in the
neighborhood of $162,500,000 a year.
Again I am talking about the amusement pinball machine. On a
similar rough guess, allowing for these fluctuations in production, it
is likely that there are around .100,000 of the bingo machines, 100,000
of this gambling version in use, although I might say that the Federal
$250 tax stamp is only paid on, I believe, 7,000 to 9,000.
Mr. Kennedy. 16,000, 1 believe.
Mr. King. Is it now 16,000? Anyway, we believe that there are
many, many more in use than have come forward and have been
registered and paid the tax.
Mr. Kennedy. We will be able to show that.
Mr. King. Assuming 100,000 of these machines operating, and
assuming that they gross twice what an amusement game does, and I
think that is a moderate assumption, the income produced per year by
this bingo type of gambling machine would be $260 million.
Again I emphasize that this is by no means a small industry, nor
from the other points of view a small problem.
With this background, with your permission, Mr. Chairman, I
would like to step up and demonstrate a little bit about how these
machines actually work.
The Chairman. Give us a little outline of what j'^ou propose to
demonstrate so that we can better follow you.
Mr. King. I shall.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, before he does that, I would also like
to have a member of the staff sworn in, Mr. Constandy, who is really
an expert on pinball machines. He will help demonstrate them.
The Chairman. Be sworn.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, t.lie whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Constandy. I do.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 1G557
TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY
The Chairman. State your name, your present employment, and
what you are an expert in.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. My name is John P. Constandy, C-o-n-s-t-a-n-d-y.
I am employed by tlie committee as assistant counsel.
Mr. King. Mr. Chairman, the tirst thing we are going to do, in
order to activate this bingo macliine-, we are going to have to knock
otF the free games, because tliis is in a circuit which was developed
as a variation of the knockoti' button, which reduces the free games
when the machine is disconnected from its power supply.
So the committee will note that there are actually 43 free games
showing on the machine. In here, and I think perhaps the commit-
tee can see from there [indicating] are two metei-s. One records the
total number of plays, the other records the free games.
Assuming that it has just been played and 43 free games had been
won, I would collect from the location owner, and he would then come
over to this button which is located where my hand is. snap it, the
machine would go on and you will hear this reducing the number
of games, while it shows a record of them in here [indicating].
^V^o will come back to this machine, but in order to activate it, we
want to clear it first.
The Chairman. I think we had better identify these machines, or
give them a number for the present. I do not know how much it will
show in the transcript.
Mr. King. Mr. Chairman, we have deleted the names of the manu-
facturers. We felt that that was not particularly important. Unless
the Chair wishes otherwise, we will identify them by description.
The Chairman. I do not know that it is necessary for us to plug
any particular company, any particular manufacturer.
Mr. Kennedy. Tlie machines, I might say, Mr. Chairman, were
obtained under subpena from a company in Baltimore. I think it
would be better if we also left the name of the company off.
The Chairman. Just keep the subpena on file so we will have a
record of it. Let us number these machines. You better call the first
one No. 1, the one that you first made a demonstration on.
Mr. King. Well, we might start here [indicating] .
The Chairman. We will call it No. 5, then, the one you have just
been talking about. Now you are starting with the one-arm bandit.
We will call it No. 1.
Mr. King. No. 1 is the old drum and reel slot machine — illegal in
interstate transportation under the Johnson act — this one that is al-
most identical with the ones that were made back around 1900.
There is veiy little to demonstrate. This is a spring-operated ma-
chine and it is familiar to, I think, most of us.
The Chairman. It is what you generally term the one-arm bandit ?
Mr. King. Yes.
The Chairman. You insert a coin and pull a lever and the machine
operates ?
Mr. King. Yes. Counsel will try his luck. This is a half-dollar
machine.
The Chairman. All right.
[Demonstration of a slot machine.]
36751— 59— pt. 46 7
16558 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. King. I might say that the jackpot is empty and the payoff is
disconnected.
The Chairman. Has that been demonstrated sufficiently ?
Mr. King. That is machine No. 1.
The Chairman. What is there about it, now, since you have
demonstrated ?
Mr. King. Only that this is the machine which performs the three
functions, takes the coin, takes the money from the player, it applies
this familiar element of chance, the matching of the three reels, and it
controls the payoff by actually handing out coins to the player.
I might say also that this machine used to cost in the neighborhood
of $50 ; that now very few of them are made, but principally for the
trade in Nevada, and the present cost of one of these machines, be-
cause there are so few in production, is in the neighborhood of $500
or $600.
The odds that the machine gives the player are adjustable to 85 per-
cent in its favor to 20 percent in its favor by a very simple device of
putting rollers on these little notches [indicating] so that the reels
will actually not engage in some of the notches.
The Chairman. In other words, that can be so set that the fellow
has a cliance of winning 85 percent of his money back, if he played it
continuously, or it can be so arranged that the mechanism of it would
only pay him back 20 percent of his investment ?
Mr. King. Yes, by a very simple matter of inserting these little
rollers in the teeth.
The second machine, which we have identified as No. 2, this is the
console slot. This has here three reels that turn precisely like the
reels on the one-armed bandit. They are electronically operated, but
it has one additional feature that I would like to bring to the attention
of the committee, and this is a multiple-coin play.
We drop one nickel in and it gives odds. This is a flashing circuit.
This is a circuit with a wiper finger inside that stops by chance.
That nickel didn't increase the odds.
Now we will drop another one and watch it go again. The player
each time has a chance. The odds are way up this time, 148, 22, and
so on, for the various symbols indicated. Then after the player has
deposited as many coins as he wishes, up to 25 or sometimes more, then
he activates the machine.
Then he actually plays by pushing a lever which makes the reels
rotate and which determines the win or not win by the matching of
the symbols.
The Chairman. How many coins can you insert in it ? Is there any
limit?
Mr. King. Twenty-five, I believe. I don't know whether this has
a limit or not. Some of them do not.
Senator Church. Let me ask this : Do the odds always improve with
the additional coins that are inserted in the machine?
Mr. King. Not necessarily, Senator Church. There is a gamble in
that each time. They never go backward on most machines, so
that you cannot hurt yourself, but it is not certain that you will help
yoursel f .
On this machine that we are coming to, there are many other
features that have this same circuit feature.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16559
Senator Church. And this is how you-
Mr. King. This is it [indicating]. You can also stop this one by
pushing it, Senator, if you are lucky.
Senator Church. Well, I never am.
Mr. King. This machine has a cash payoff drawer which I think
is locked until you win, but money actually drops down into the ma-
chine and the player can get it by pulling out a little drawer.
We might, by jumping ahead, perhaps demonstrate one thing, one
distinction among these machines. This is the payoff box for taking
tlie coin receipts from tlie console slot machine. Looking now at the
machine w^hich we will identify as No. 3, which is the one-ball, this
is the box for taking the coint receipts from that machine.
Passing down to tlio machine which is identified as Xo. 5, and which
is the current version of the gambling pinball machine, this is the box
provided in that machine to take the receipts.
Now, ending, the game which is the amusement machine, this is
the box provided to take the receipts from the amusement machine.
The Chairman. That is No. 4 you are talking about ?
Mr. King. No. 4.
The Chairman. In other words, the gambling machine seems to re-
quire a greater capacity for storage than the others.
Mr. King. Well, it is a difference between $15 and $20 a week and
$300 and $400 a week.
Passing now to the machine which we identified as No. 3, the one-
ball machine, we will go over this one quickly because, as I say, it is
an antique. It is no longer in use.
This machines cost in the neighborhood of $500 or $600. It was
the first attempt to simulate a pinball machine. You will see it is
considerably bigger. It is about 2i/^ feet thick. The backboard is
much larger and thicker than the later model.
This is the one which is operated by shooting a single ball after
depositing a number of coins. We will demonstrate this. You will
note that there are several flasher circuits on this. There are several
of these, the equivalent of the drum and reel that introduce an ele-
ment of chance each time an additional coin is inserted.
I have inserted 25 cents in this machine. I have not played it. I
could go on inserting as much as I wanted to, playing for the best odds.
Senator Church, do you w^ant to shoot this ball ? This is a single
ball. This is a very plain board. It has no bumpers, kickers, or
lighting devices on it.
Senator Church. It has a tilt, I see.
Mr. King. The only thing the ball does is that there are four sec-
tions, place, show, purse, and win. As the ball comes further down
the field without falling into a hole, the possibilities of winning are
increased because the wni section is at the bottom and that determines
the odds that are given as shown on the backboard.
Senator Church. Does this pay off in coins, too ?
The Chairman. Did he win anything with that ball ?
Mr. King. No. He lost. This machine also has a cup which actu-
ally pays the coins back to the player. In logic, I am going to pass
the machine we have marked as "Exhibit No. 4" and come to the
bingo machine which is the lineal descendant of these machines we
have looked at and w^hich is the current version of the gambling
machine.
16560 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. Did you say it is the latest model ?
Mr. King. This is actually not a late model, Senator, in that there
are four or five different models out since. But they do not change
the models on this machine.
The Chairman. The basic operation is not changed ?
Mr. King. Exactly. Even the models are not changed exactly, be-
cause you do not have a novelty feature. It does not have to make
the player appeal that you find in the pinball machines. They come
out every 2 weeks with a new paint job, a new name, and some new
features.
Senator Church. The three machines you have shown us are the
machines that are outlawed in almost all jurisdictions and which the
courts have held to be gambling machines in countervaillance of the
gambling laws.
Mr. King. Yes.
Senator Church. But this machine, so far has escaped, or rather,
has largely escaped that judgment of the courts, is that right, or is it
just too new to have gone through the process ^
Mr. King. This machine has all the elements of an illegal gambling
machine as defined by the courts in all the decisions. But this is the
machine that is currently in very wide use.
Senator Church. And it has not been test-cased through, so to
speak ?
Mr. King. Yes. There was the Korpan case, a very important
case, which held that this, for Federal tax purposes, was equivalent
to the one-armed bandit.
Senator Church. How does this differ fi-om the one-ball machine?
Mr, Kennedy. On that point, this machine, Senator, is being widely
used in various States in the United States where gambling is pro-
hibited, and where they pay the $250 gambling stamp, and in order
for this to function there must be some arrangement with some local
official or State official in order to have it operate.
Senator Church. You mean there has to be some kind of a fix ?
Mr. Kennedy. There are many jurisdictions that we have found in
our investigation where this machine is very w^idely used. It is a
gambling device, but it nevertheless is being used and used openly.
Mr. King. This is the machine that costs $500, $000, even $700 a
model, but which grosses $300 or $400 a week in a good location. It
has many of these flasher circuits, the multiple-changes. By the
deposit of the coin the machine is activated, a good number of changes
take place, and odds are progressively increased.
It is possible on this machine to put in any number of coins. I
believe that Mr. Constandy last night put something like 100, trying
to put the odds to the highest point. This, again, takes the insertion
of the coin with no play on the machine. You just keep dropping
coins.
Mr. I^nnedy. You could insert $15, $20, or $25 without even
running
Mr. King. Without touching the plunger or sliooting any balls.
Mr. Kennedy. And as you go along, you could put more coins in
to change the odds and change the way the figures go ?
Mr. King. Yes.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16561
Mr. Kennedy. There are at least a dozen or 15 different ways in
which the macliine can be changed, the odds changed, or the ways
the numbers go?
Mr. King. Yes. Then, of couree, there are other features on this.
For instance, wlien this sign here, whicli says "press buttons now"
lights up, and that is determined, again, by one of tliese chance deter-
minants, by pressing a row of buttons here you can move the numbers
behind the bingo board.
If, for instance, you have a "7" lit and you are coming down this
row, if you get this you can move the 7 over so that it completes a
row this way [indicating].
Mr. ICennedy. Open the cupboard there. Stop what is equivalent
to eight times. Eveiy time he clicks that you are putting in another
coin.
Senator Church. What is happening? Are the odds changing
now?
Mr. King. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Not necessarily.
Mr. King. They don't necessarily change, but each time the player
has a chance of getting higher odds. That is all. This is a nickel
machine. They are all dime machines now, but if you start dropping
dimes as fast as I am operating this machine, you can see that this
can become a large-scale thing.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Constandy, can you put some balls into some
of those numbers?
We would like to show how he can switch it around, Mr. Chairman.
Do not put the coin in, but just click it.
Mr. King. Incidentally, we have created what is the dream of all
pinball players by taking the glass out of the top. We can drop the
balls where we want them to go.
Senator, while Mr. Constandy is playing, I would like to point out
the back of this machine.
Mr. Chairman, the difference between the wiring circuits of these
two machines is the difference between one thing and the control sur-
face of an ICBM. The control surface is enormously complicated.
I would like to point them out.
Senator Church. This is a five ball, and the idea is to line up a
bingo in one or the other direction for it to pay off ?
Mr. King. Yes. As you can see, you can change the lines here.
Incidentally, I would like to have Mr. Constandy demonstrate this
bingo game in play. I would like to point out while he is doing so
that the play is very quick. You will see the contrast when we show
machine No. 4.
This goes, even when he shoots the balls instead of dropping them
in, that this goes very rapidly. These are not all the game features
that slow the play down.
]\Ir. Kennedy. Mr. Constandy, would you demonstrate how you
doit?
Mr. Constandy. Yes.
The play starts by the insertion of the initial coin that will activate
the mechanism. Thereafter the odds can be built up repeatedly
through the additional insertion of additional coins. At this phase,
last night when we were trying it, we were able to insert 100 nickles
16562 IMPROPER ACTWITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
without being able to fully utilize the entire play of the odds. Once
the play has progressed to this point
Mr. Kennedy. Just show a summary of it.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. We will line up 14, 19, 23, which would normally
give us a winning combination. Now we will place the board in No.
18.
Mr. King. You see the free games starting. Note that this is 45,
46, 47. In other words, this machine immediately takes you beyond
the point where it can reasonably be played off as an amusement.
Senator Church. Why have you won ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. We have lit a winning combination by placing
three balls in the slots which are lined with the red line. The odds
on that are 128, and we have won 128 free games.
Mr. King. This is for lining up three balls. Senator. The next is
for lining up four, and the odds for lining up five would be 400.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. If we assume that the fourth ball was shot and
fell into position in space No. 18, it would not be in the line that would
depreciates.
Mr. King. This device we are trying to light is operated by one of
those chance circuits so it will not go on until we hit it.
Mr. Kennedy. Anyway, we understand how it works generally, Mr.
Chairman.
Do you wish to go into it in further detail ?
The Chaairman. I do not want to play it. Go ahead.
Mr, King. There is one further point about this machine, Mr. Chair-
man, that I would like to make. That is that on the other machine the
odds to play it would be set by changing circuits, but a characteristic
of this machine is a very ingenious and quite expensive and compli-
cated device which automatically, when a machine is played to win,
it operates a worm gear which advances an electric circuit and reduces
the odds a little bit.
When the machine has a series of games where no payoffs are made,
this mechanism is activated in reverse so that the odds are increased,
so that there is an automatic adjustment here to keep the machine
from being hit too much.
The Chairman. Have you ascertained what the real odds are, or
the average odds ?
Mr. King. Well, they are adjustable, but they run in the range
of 40 percent out of 100. In other words, a 40 percent return or a
50 percent return on 100. That is 50 cents back out of a dollar of
play. But this machine is such a real gambling machine that it
takes a long time to build up the odds on that.
Lastly, I shall address myself briefly to this machine I have desig-
nated as No. 4, which is the amusement pinball machine. The best
way to describe it is by pointing out to you the things that it does
not have. Its cost, incidentally, is around $300.
It has no provision for giving any kind of odds and it has no addi-
tional play for higher odds. When a coin is inserted there is no
action on the board, that is, on the backboard. The action has to
take place on the playboard. It has no flasher circuits, none of these
chance determinants that you saw operating in the back of the other
machine, which I saw again are the equivalent of tlie old reels over
there.
EVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16563
It has no knoclcoff bnttoii and no replay meter. There may be a
game counter in here to keej) track of tlie colle<;tions. Of course, it
has no reflex. Free games Avon on this machine can only be removed
by working the coin shoot and actually shooting one ball.
The free game indicator is at this point [indicating]. I was in
error when 1 said this only gave five. There are 17 free games on
there, so this must be set to give 25, which is a maximum for any ma-
chine, but you take this free game off and it can be played.
It activates the machine. Then a ball must be raised and shot,
and then another free game can be taken off. But to take 17 oft', this
has to be snapped down. I am making a demonstration.
The only other point I wished to make was the complexity of this
board. Tliis is the appeal of this machine. This is the one you
hear clanking in drug stores and things. This has flippers by which
a player can shoot the ball back up, so that the ball can be in play for
several minutes at a time.
Compared with one board, this is very complicated and these are
frequently changed. A machine like this gets stale in a location
after a few weeks.
ISenator Church. The characteristic of this machine, then, is that
you get comparatively few free games ; you get comparatively a long
period of play, with lots of flashing lights and ringing bells and things
of that kind to provide the enjoyment that attracts the nickels.
Mr. King. The only thing the machine can do back is an oppor-
tunity to do it all over again.
Senator Church. An opportunity to do it again ; yes.
Mr. King, It is not wired for any kind of payoff. Of course, the
maintenance and upkeep on a machine like this is much less than the
maintenance and upkeep on the other machines.
Senator Church. Isn't it also true that there is an element of skill
involved in the purely amusement-type machine, in that once you get
experienced with it or come to know it you are more apt to win free
games than otlierwise; whereas, this machine, No. 5, is pretty much
just pure chance ?
^Ir. King. Yes; there is no control over this ball in Xo. 5 after it
leaves the hammer.
Mr. Kennt^dy. I think that about covers it.
The Chairman. Have you anything else ?
Mr. King. I would like to make reference to two additional ma-
chines w^hich we were unable to obtain, but which your committee may
encounter. One is the simple capsule macliine. It is the old gumball
machine that all of us are familiar with from when we were children.
This is used extensively with capsules among the gum containing
money or valuable prizes. This is a substantial enterprise in some
areas.
The other is a machine of the horoscope variety, that actually gives
a card with a fortune or something, and colored cards control the pay-
off on these machines. They are somewhat prevalent as gambling
devices.
Finally, one more thing to clarify something. I believe counsel
earlier stated that these machines were easy to transform from a gam-
bling machine into a nongambling machine, which is true. But to
convert a nongambling machine into a gambling machine — you are
16564 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
much better off to start over and build the machine from the beginning
for all of the things I have demonstrated to you among the differences.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Kenxedy. Thank you very much.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
If not, thank you very much, Mr. King.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have a short witness from the
Internal Revenue Department. I would like to get some figures into
the record.
I would like to call Mr. Kearney.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but th truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kearney. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH A. KEARNEY
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
present occupation or employment.
Mr. Kearney. Joseph A. Kearney, Tax Rulings Division, Internal
Revenue Service. I reside in Washington, D.C.
The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes.
The Chairman. How long have you been with the Internal Revenue
Service ?
Mr. Kearney. Since 1934.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kearney. I might state that I have been working in connection
with this tax since 1941, the tax on coin-operated amusement and gam-
bling devices.
The C'hairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Under the law as it is written at the present time
there is a $10 charge for an amusement device and $250 for a gambling
device ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kearney. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And the gambling tax is not on each gambling de-
vice, but it is on locations; is that right? It is on the location?
Mr. Kearney. That is right. It is on the person who maintains
the machine for use.
Mr. Kennedy. So he might have 10 or 12 machines?
Mr. Kearney. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find even in States where gambling is sup-
posedly illegal, which would be every State except Nevada, and in
some sections of Mary'land as I understand it, do you find that there
are these kind of machines that are m operation ?
Mr. Kearney. Definitely.
Mr. Kennedy. And do you find that even where the gambling is
illegal, that these location owners pay gambling taxes on these kind
of macliines ?
Mr. Kearney. Definitely.
Mr. Kennedy. And does it show that at least there are some 16,000
of those in the United States today ?
Mr. Kearney. We sold 16,000 stamps last year.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16565
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find from your investigation, the investi-
gation of you and your colleagues, that in fact these kind of machines
are far more prevalent than just the 16,000 ?
Mr. Kearney. AVell, of course, 1 don't work in the field at all. I
couldn't say. I couldn't answer that.
Mr. Kennp:dy. From what you understand.
]\Ir. Kearney. I understand that they are.
jMr. Kennedy. They are far more prevalent than that.
The Chairman. To clarify that, these 16,000 stamps, is that for
machines or is that for locations ?
Mr. Kearney. For the location.
The Chairman. That is 16,0tX) locations, and that would not neces-
sarily indicate or it doesn't indicate the number of machines that may
be operated.
Mr. Kearney. It may be a quarter of a million. Some places
have 200 or 300.
j\Ir. Kennedy. Do you have it broken down into districts as to the
sale of these gambling stamps?
Mr. Kearney. Yes, I gave those statistics to you this morning.
IMr. Kennedy. Do you have them there ?
Mr. Kearney. I left them with you. I can tell yoa that there are
several States, or at least two States, that sell more than Nevada.
ISIr. Kennedy. AVhat two States are they ?
Mr. Kearney. AVell, Maryland and Indiana are two.
Mr. Kennedy. Indiana and Maryland ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. They sell more than Nevada ?
Mr. Kearney. They have had more stamps than Nevada.
Mr. Kennedy. Has the Commissioner, during the past week, taken
action to try to stamp out these kinds of machines or not stamp them
out but collect taxes in easier fashion ?
Mr. Kearney. AVe have. I might give you a little background. In
the latter part of 1957, the Department of Justice asked us to conduct,
our intelligence division, to conduct a test case in the southern district
of Illinois.
We seized nine of these types of machines, and in a noncontested dis-
trict court decision they were declared per se gambling devices. Prior
to that time, our problem had been getting evidence of payoff, and even
in the Kopen case we had evidence of payoff there.
But the Commissioner has now taken the position that we are going
to follow that district court decision and tax these machines that have
the knockoff button and register button or multiple extra plays as
gaming devices, per se.
Mr. Kennedy. When did they give that ruling?
Mr. Kearney. Last week.
Mr. Kennedy. So you are going to start a concerted drive on these
kinds of machines ?
Mr. Kearney. We hope to.
Mr. Chairman. Did the investigation have anything to do with, that
decision ?
Mr. Kearney. No, sir, because this was started in 1957.
The Chairman. In 1957?
Mr. KJEARNEY. Yes, sir.
16566 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. So was this committee.
Mr. Kearney. It may have, then.
Mr. Kennedy. Why hasn't action been taken prior to this ; do you
know?
Mr. Kearney. No, not being in a policy position, I couldn't answer
that.
Mr. Kennedy. They just decided last week they would take action.
Mr. Kearney. We are going to follow that decision ; yes. We don't
know whether we will be able to substantiate because we won't have
evidence of payoffs. It is very hard and very difficult when you don't
have evidence of payoff and these knockoff meters can be placed in
other places where you can't see them.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, there was a memorandum of Commissioner
Latham, dated January 23, 1959, from the Acting Assistant Commis-
sioner, Operations, and the subject is "Classification for Excise Tax
Purposes of Pinball Machines Having Certain Gambling Features."
One of the paragraphs here says :
The Department does not believe that the use of criminal sanctions will do
much to encourage voluntary compliance in this area, because of the usual char-
acter of the taxpayers involved.
What did he mean by that?
Mr. Kearney. Well, it is not the best element.
Mr. Kennedy. You mean the people who are rimning these and
distributing these machines?
Mr. Kearney. That is true; that is very true.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that what is meant by that ?
Mr. Kearney. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find from your investigation and examina-
tion in dealing with this subject that there are an unusually large
nmnber of underworld figures dealing with these kinds of machines?
Mr. Kearney. Well, after the reorganization of the Bureau, since
1952, I have been limited purely to tax rulings. Prior to that time
in the national office we handled everything, and every case that came
into the national office, and it was a substantial element of the under-
world in this business prior to that time.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, from what you know and from dealing with
this subject generally, do you have any information that that situation
has changed or do you find it has continued or do you have any
information ?
Mr. Kearney. From the reports I have heard from the Intelligence
Department, it is still true.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, I don't want to press this matter, but are you
sure you don't have that booklet?
Mr. Kearney. No; I am pretty sure.
Mr. Kennedy. I think that you gave me some lettei's, but I don't
think that you gave me the booklet.
Mr. Kearney. I am sorry; I have it.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
Mr. Kearney. What States do you want?
Mr. Kennedy. I don't want to pick out anv particular State,
but
Mr. Ke.\rney. I can give them to you by regions. We have nine
regions. In the Atlanta area, there were 2,957. The Boston region
had 72.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16567
The Chairman. They want to go to Boston for amusement?
Mr. Kearney. The Chicago region had 1,679. Cincinnati region
had 2,851. DaHas liad 2,572. New York had six.
Mr. Kennedy. In New York they have had a concerted drive against
these kinds of machines?
Mr. Ke.\rney. That is very time.
Mr. Kennedy. For a long period of time.
Mr. Kearney. Omaha is 6J)5, Phihidelphia 3,432, and that is be-
cause Baltimore is in the Philadelphia area. And San Francisco,
4,997.
Mr. Kennedy. Where is Reno?
Mr. Kearney. Tliat is in the San Fi'ancisco region.
The Chairman. A\niat area is Arkansas in?
Mr. Kearney. Atlanta.
The CvHairman. How many did it have ?
Mr. Kearney. With these lights, it is hard to read it.
The Chairman. I thought you had already announced it.
Mr. Kearney. I am looking for Arkansas, and I can give you the
exact number in Arkansas.
The Chairman. Let us have it.
Senator Church. While looking, keep your eye out for Idaho, too,
will you ?
Mr, Kearney. 455.
Senator Church. That is Arkansas ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes. That is in the Dallas region; that is why I
was having trouble finding it.
The Chairman. Now Idaho.
Senator Church. What about Idaho ?
Mr. Kearney. They had none.
Senator Church. They had none, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kennedy. What State has the most ?
Mr. Kearney. Maryland.
The Chairman. That is convenient to W^ashington, isn't it ?
Mr. Kearney. Yes, sir. They had 3,175.
Mr. Kennedy. What are the rest of the States that have a lot?
Mr. Kearney. Chicago had 800. Louisville has 1,390.
Mr. Kennedy. How much does Indianapolis have ?
Mr. Kearney. 1,390. No, I am sorry. Louisville was 946.
Mr. Kennedy. What is Indianapolis ?
Mr. Kearney. 1,390. And New Orleans has 691.
Mr. Kennedy. What does Reno have ?
Mr. Kearney. 1,353.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Detroit ?
Mr. Kearney. Michigan, 63.
Mr. Kennedy. "V^Hiat city has the most ?
Mr. Kearney. I don't have the statistics by city. Detroit means
the whole State of Michigan.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, does Chicago mean the whole State
of Illinois?
]\Ir. Kearney. No. We have two collection districts in Illinois —
Chicago and Springfield.
Mr. Kennedy. Chicago and Indiana ?
Mr. Kearney. No. Just one in Indianapolis. That covers the whole
State of Indiana.
16568 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I would like to go into some of those
individuals who have some of these coin-operated businesses. In that
connection, I would like to call Mr. Gerardo Vito Catena.
The Chairman. Be sworn.
You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Sen-
ate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Catena. I do.
TESTIMONY OF GERARDO VITO CATENA, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, SAUL C. SCHUTZMAN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Catena. My name is Gerardo Catena. I reside at 21 Over-
hill Road, South Orange, N.J.
The Chairman. New Jersey ?
Mr. Catena. New Jersey.
The Chairman. What is your business or occupation ?
Mr. Catena. Runyon Sales Co. of New Jersey.
The Chairman. Runyon Sales?
Mr. Catena. Runyon Sales Co. of New Jersey, Inc.
The Chairman. What does this company do? "V^Tiat business is
it in?
Mr. Catena. Vending business.
The Chairman. Vending machines ?
Mr. Catena. Yes.
The Chairman. You have counsel with you, have you ?
Mr. Catena. I do.
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record,
please.
Mr. ScpiuTZMAN. My name is Saul C. Schutzman. I am an at-
torney, licensed to practice in the State of New Jersey. My offices
are located at 1060 Broad Street, Newark.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. When you speak of vending machines, what kind
of vending machines does Runyon Sales have?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the
grounds it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it all kinds of coin machines, Mr. Catena?
The Chairman. Do you manufacture them or sell them ?
Mr. Catena. Vending.
The Chairman. I know they are vending machines, but does your
company manufacture them or operate them ?
Mr. Catena. We operate.
The Chairman. Operate?
Mr. Catena. Yes.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that just in the New Jersey area, or do you go to
other States ? Is it j ust New Jersey ?
UVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16569
Mr. Catena. Mostly all New .Tersey.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it all through New Jersey or just the upper parts
of New Jersey ?
Mr. Catena. Mostly the upper part of New Jersey.
Mr. Kennedy. What kind of machines are they? Could you tell
me that?
Mr. Catena. Well, 1 will identify them.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
Mr. Catena. Mostly jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. Mostly jukeboxes?
Mr. Catena. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Any other kinds of machines ?
]Mr. Catena. We have games. We have kiddy rides, cigarette ma-
chines.
Mr. I^nnedy. How many jukeboxes do you have, approximately?
Mr. Catena. I would say 800.
Mr. Kennedy. Excuse me ?
Mr. Catena. About 800.
Mr. Kennedy. And how many of the game machines do you have?
Mr. Catena. I just haven't got tliat at my hngertips. I might have
a few hundred.
]\Ir. Kennedy. A few hundred of those?
Mr. Catena. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. How many cigarette machines do you have?
Mr. Catena. A couple hundred of those.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you put any of these machines into the New York
City area?
Mr. Catena. Rimyon doesn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Does another company with which you are as-
sociated ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on tlie grounds of the
fifth amendment.
JNIr. Kennedy. Just on the Runyon Sales, do you have a contract
with any union? I am just talking about New Jersey. I will not go
into any others.
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it may
tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you think it might incriminate you if you had
a contract with some labor union ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
miglit tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. The Chair will ask you : Do you honestly believe
that if you answered the question, "Do you have a contract with some
labor union?" that a truthful answer to that question might tend to
incriminate you ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
The CiTAiRiMAN. With the approval of the committee, the Chair
orders and directs you to answer the question. I don't think you have
a right to invoke the fifth amendment capriciously and take a posi-
tion that, irrespective of whether it would incriminate you or not,
you will not answer the question.
16570 IMPROPER ACTIYITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The test is, Do you honestly believe that if you gave a truthful
answer to the question, that a truthful answer might tend to incrim-
inate you ? I will ask you that question : Do you honestly believe it ?
Mr. Catena. May I consult counsel ?
The Chairman. Yes.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The Chairman. All right. Now you may answer the question.
Mr. Catena. It is my honest belief.
The Chairman. That it would tend to incriminate you if you ans-
wered the question truthfully ?
Mr. Catena. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Catena, you have this interest in Runyon Sales
Co. of New Jersey. Do you also have an interest, as I understand, in
Runyon Sales Co. of New York, or is that one and the same company ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
is might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The Runyon Sales Co. distributes these AMI juke-
boxes, does it not, and also the so-called bally games, wliich are these
games which are gambling devices?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell me whether your company pur-
chases any of these gambling stamps ?
Mr. Catena. I honestly don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. You don't know? How far do you get into the
operation of the company ?
Mr. Catena. I decline to answer on the ground it might tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell the committee who would know, if
you don't know.
Mr. Catena. Well, the officers of the company.
Mr. Kennedy. Who would know? Who would have that answer
for us?
Mr. Catena. The officers of the company.
Mr. Kennedy. Who are the officers ?
Mr. Catena. Mr. Sugarman and Mr. Green.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Sugarman and who is the other?
Mr. Catena. Mr. Green.
Mr, Kennedy. How long have they been in the company with you ?
Mr. Catena. I have been in about 7 years.
Mr. Kennedy. About 7 or 8 years. Do they operate in New Jersey
as well as New York ?
Mr. Catena. They might operate some in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. The jukeboxes as well as the other pinball ma-
chines ?
Mr. Catena. Well, I am not sure.
Mr. Kennedy. You are not sure. Are they a member of an asso-
ciation in New York? Do you know if they have anything to do
with that New York city association ?
Mr. Catena. I decline to answer on the ground it might tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Are they a member of an association in New Jersey ?
EMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16571
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
mi^ht tend to incriminate me.
Air. Kennedy. Just going back to New Jersey, would one of them
be able to tell us whether you belong to a union up there ?
Mr. Catena. I didn't hear. You better repeat that, counselor.
Mr. Kennedy. I am wondering if one of those individuals, Mr.
Sugarman or Mr. Green, would be able to tell us whether you belong
to a union, whether you have a contract wdth a union.
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You also have an interest in Runyon Amusement Co.
of 593 10th Avenue, New York City ; is that right?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully declme to answ er on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That has about 400 coin machines, does it not?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And the Runyon Games Co., of Frelinghuysen Ave-
nue, in Newark, N.J. ?
Mt'. Catena. Frelinghuysen.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have that company? Do you have a com-
pany, Runyon Games Co., on that avenue?
Mr. Catena. Yes, we do.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliat does that company do?
Mr. Catena. That is Runyon that we were talking about.
Mr. Kennedy. They handle the sales and service for coin game
machinas?
Mr. Cait.na. T respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You also have an interest in World Wired Music
Co., do you?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. They transmit through the telephone, music through-
out northern New Jersey restaurants and taverns ; is that right ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And also the Muzak Corp. of New York, which per-
forms the same function : is that right ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you also have an interest in the Kool-Vent Alu-
minum Awning Co. ?
Mr. Catena. I refuse to answer on the ground it might tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to our information, you had a controlling
interest in that company, which is now called Trim-Metal, Inc. ; is that
right ?
jNIr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the gi'ound it may
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the information, you transferred your
intprpst to your brother-in-law, James Brown, who now has the con-
trolling interest in that company ?
16572 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is there anything about that business, Trim-Metal,
Inc., that is illegal or improper? The name doesn't imply.
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it may
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. It is of some interest, Mr. Chairman, that this com-
pany supplied the aluminum awnings for Joseph Barbara's home in
Apalachin.
Is that correct ?
The Chairman. Is that for the special meeting or were they sup-
plied as a gift?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Also in that company was Richie Boiardo.
Do you know him ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy, He is a close associate of Abner "Longy" Zwillman,
is he not ?
Mr. Catena. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. You don't know. Do you know Longy Zwillman ?
Mr. Catena. I do.
Mr. Kennedy. How long have you known him ?
Mr. Catena. A lot of years.
Mr. Kennedy. How long?
Mr. Catena. Twenty-five or thirty years.
Mr. Kennedy. Twenty-five or thirty years. Have you had any
financial business ventures with him ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Has he got an interest in any company that you have
an interest in at the present time ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you answer this question, of whether he has,
at the present time, any interest in any of the Rimyon companies. Run-
yon Sales of New Jersey or New York ?
Mr. Catena. He does not.
Mr. Kennedy. He does not. Did he ever have ?
Mr. Catena. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you in business with him or associated with
him at all in the Public Service Tobacco Co. ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you sell your interest to him, to Mr. Zwillman,
in Public Service Tobacco Co. ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to our information, Joseph Stracci, who
comes from Nevada now, and Cuba, purchased the Public Service To-
bacco with Mike Dascari. Do you know Mike Lascari or did you know
him when he was alive ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16573
Mr. Catena. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you know Mike Lascari ?
Mr. Catena. About 25 years.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any business dealings with him ?
Mr. Catena, I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Joseph Stracci ?
Mr. Catena. I do.
Mr. Kennedy. How long have you known him ?
Mr. Catena. About 30 years.
Mr. Kennedy. Where does he make his residence now ? Nevada ?
Mr. Catena. I believe it is California ?
Mr. Kennedy. California.
Has he some interest in Nevada also ?
Mr. Catena. I wouldn't know.
JSIr. Kennedy. How about Cuba? Does he have any interest in
Cuba?
Mr. Catena. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any interest in Cuba ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you set up or established any gambling casi-
nos, or have any interest in any of the gambling casinos ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Las Vegas? Have you any interests in
any gambling casinos ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Just on Public Service Tobacco, did you sell out your
interest to Lascari or Zwillman ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to our information, you sold out your
interest to Zwillman and Lascari, and Mr. Zwillman owns that com-
pany at the present time. Is that correct ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Lucky Luciano ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Lascari grew up with Lucky Luciano in his
household ; did he not ? Do you know that ?
IMr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the groimd it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you seen Lucky Luciano lately at all ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You have also been in business, have you not, W'ith
Joe Adonis ?
Mr. Catena. I decline to answer on the ground it might tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Joe Adonis ?
36751— 59— pt. 46 8
16574 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Catena. I decline to answer on the ground it might tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Sal Moretti ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. James Rutkin ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. It involves the G. & R. Trading Co. — is that right —
of New Jersey ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You also have had an interest in some three or four
trucking companies, have you not?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what local of the Teamsters Union
you had contracts with when you had the trucking companies ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it miglit
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The Peoples Express Co., is that one of your truck-
ing companies, or was that ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The CPC Trucking Co. ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a company called the Trucks Rentals
Co.?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the information we have, you also
knew Albert Anastasia, before he died ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. His brother, Tony Anastasia ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Frank Costello ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mike Miranda ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. "Governor" Guarino ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Joseph Barbara ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Joe Genovese?
INTr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
EMPROPER ACTrV'rriES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16575
Mr. Kennedy. Russell Bufalino?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it not a fact that you went to the meeting at Apa-
lachin, and you were arrested in Russell Bufalino's automobile?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. Dominic Olivetto from New Jersey ; was he also with
you at that time ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the gi'ound it might
tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What was the purpose of that meeting up there?
What kind of a convention was it?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you discuss these coin-operated machines and
your interest with them up there?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you see Mr. Lombardozzi present at that
meeting?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You attended a number of these meetings before;
have you not ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. At the Martinique restaurant, on Route 29, in New
Jersey, a restaurant operated by a friend of yours, Angelo "Gyp" de
Carlo?
Mr. Catena, I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. In January 1953, wasn't there a closed meeting of
some 25 men at the Martinique restaurant, in January 1953, which you
attended, which was a meeting of the higher officials of the syndicate ?
Wasn't there such a meeting in January 1953 ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. In December 1954, didn't you have a meeting there
between you and Albert Anastasia, Longy Zwillman, and Richie
Boiardo ?
Mr. Caitsna. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that also in the automobile up at
Apalachin was not only Olivetto, yourself, Russell Bufalino, but also
Vito Genovese ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you have frequently visited Mr.
Baibara in his home ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you also know Sol Cilento, who used to be secre-
tary-treasurer of the Distillery Workers?
16576 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Anthony Carfano, George Scalise; do you know
them?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the gi'ound it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. We have telephone calls that we understand you to
have made to Mr. Jack Davies. Do you know Jack Davies ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it may
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. He is an individual prominent in gambling in Cuba.
Did you discuss that with him ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it may
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Can you tell us anything further about the coin-
machine business other than what you have told us ?
Mr. Catena. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it may
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Are there any questions ?
Senator Church. No questions.
The Chairman. Mr. Catena, you will remain under your present
subpena, under the jurisdiction of the committee, subject to being
recalled at such time as the committee may desire further t*istimony
from you.
Do you acknowledge that recognizance ?
Mr. Catena. I do.
The Chairman, All right. Upon reasonable notice of the time
and place you will be expected to reappear and give further testimony.
You may stand aside for the present.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I call Capt. Richard Hackmeyer, St.
Louis County Police.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to say as far as Mr, Catena is con-
cerned that there was a representative from the State attorney's
office in the State of New Jersey who was present here.
The Chairman. All right.
Be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Captain Hackmeyer. I do,
TESTIMONY OF CAPT. RICHARD J. HACKMEYER
The Chairman, State your name, place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Captain Hackmeyer, My name is Richard Joseph Hackmeyer. I
am a detective captain with the St, Louis County Police Department,
and I reside in St. Louis County, Mo.
The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ?
Captain Hackmeyer. I do, sir.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16577
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this will be the last witness tliis
afternoon. The witness has to return to St. Louis, so we are taking
him out of order. But I thought that his testimony as to the situation
in the St. I^ouis area was of importance.
You are head of the security division of the St. Louis County Police
Department ?
Captain ILv.CKMEyER. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is located in Clayton, Mo.; is that right?
Captain Hackmeyer. Correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are a graduate of the Treasury Depart-
ment's Narcotics School ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir, lam.
]Mr. Kennedy. 1952 to 1954 you were assistant district security
officer for military security in the 12th Naval District, San Francisco?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you have been with the St. Louis County police
department since September 1955 ?
Captain Hackmeyer. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are a member of the Missouri bar, the Fed-
eral bar, and the U.S. Supreme Court bar ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Ye,s, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell the committee the background spe-
cifically of the Anthony Novelty Co., of the operations of John Vitale,
and the situation that existed in the St. Louis area in connection with
the distribution and handling of coin-operated machines?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir. I will be glad to.
First, the committee must understand that in 1955, July 1, the St.
Louis County police department was created. Prior to that time, the
sheriff of the county had criminal jurisdiction, and due to the organi-
zation of St. Louis County, they decided to f onn a police department.
At that time we became aware of the Anthony Novelty Co., which
is owned and operated by John Vitale, had moved out into St. Louis
County, into the city of Pine Lawn, Mo.
They had come from the city of St. Louis, and the St. Louis police
had given them some heat there. Our information was that they
came out with the idea of moving into the county, taking advantage
of the disorganization of the police service.
We watched them in 1955 and 1956, and there were no significant
developments mitil August of 1957. At that time we received infor-
mation that the Anthony Novelty Co., through the Automatic Ciga-
rette Sales Co., which is located in the same address as the Anthony
Novelty Co., on the record that is owned by Jack Joseph, although it
is our understanding that it is controlled by John Vitale, that An-
thony, through this cigarette company, intended to expand into St.
Louis County taverns.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was John Vitale ?
Captain Hackmeyer. John Vitale is reputed to be our local Mafia
leader. He is a police character of some notoriety in our area. I
believe he has been in front of this committee before.
Mr. Kennedy. AVho was Jack Joseph ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Jack Joseph is an errand boy for John Vitale.
He is a police character. He has been associated with him, and pres-
ently is the record owner of the Automatic Cigarette Sales Co.
16578 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. K^ENNEDY. Now would you relate wliat they did ? Relate how
they were able to move in.
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir.
St. Louis County has approximately 800 licensed liquor establish-
ments. Our information was that through the use of the cigarette
machines of the Automatic Cigarette Sales Co., as a leader, Anthony
Novelty intended to infiltrate, so to speak, and gain financial control
of the various taverns. This situation could come about because at
that time there was a bad slump in the tavern business, and many of
the tavern operators were working and operating on a shoestring.
So the method that they devised was something new. It was not
the muscle technique but, rather, it was the idea of going to the loca-
tion or tavern owner and saying "We understand that you need $500
or $1,000," whatever they might need to pay their license fee, to buy
stock, and making an out-of-pocket loan to the tavern owner.
The tavern owner might say, "Well, I can't borrow this money. I
don't know how I can pay it back."
The answer was, "Put it in our cigarette machine, our jukebox, or
pinballs, and let them pay it back."
It was painless.
The thought in mind, after the company had infiltrated, had these
people under financial obligation, was to introduce certain forms of
gambling in the taverns. They didn't get under way too much in the
county. We had our eye on them from the beginning.
They did manage on one or two occasions to set up what we would
consider organized gambling. However, it didn't last.
Mr. Kennedy. Were they successful in getting thase machines?
Captain Hackmeyer. The locations, do you mean ?
Mr. Kennedy. The locations.
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir ; they were. They were successful in
their start.
The thing that distinguished them from the legitimate operator was
that they seemed to have unlimited capital and were able to make
these loans to the tavern operators.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, would you tell us what happened then ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Well, in order to combat what we felt was
this attempt to introduce organized gambling into the county, with
the cooperation of the Missouri State liquor department, we initiated
a survey. We sent forms to all of the licensed liquor establishments
in the county and forms to all of the vending companies operating in
the St. Louis area. The purpose of that, as far as the taverns were
concerned, was to determine whether or not — well, to determine two
things, actually : Who had financial control of the tavern, and if there
were any loans from hoodlum sources.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the result of that ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Approximately 103 taverns admitted that
they had machines in their taverns that were from the hoodlum
companies.
However, out of the 800 taverns, only 4 admitted any type of loans
from any vending company.
Mr. ICennedy. Was there any violence in connection with all of
this?
IMPROPER ACTrV^ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16579
Captain Hackmeyer. No. sir. We had on one or two occasions
some comi)laint to tliat effect, but it was unfounded. The operation
seemed to be primarily financial.
:Mr. Kennedy. What about Gazzoli, of tlie Star Novelty Co.?
Captain Hackmeyer. Gazzoli is the owner and operator of the Star
Novelty Co. in St. Louis.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that a competitor company ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir; of the Anthony Novelty Co. They
are in the same business.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't he shot in 1958 ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir; he was. The story that went to
that was in approximately January of that year, our unit received
information that Gazzoli had been threatened on a downtown St.
Louis street, that two men had approached him and directed him to
stay out of the Paddock Bar, in East St. Louis, controlled by Buster
Limpke, told him to stop pushing, as the term was, the Plaza locations.
We informed the St. Louis police intelligence unit, and my under-
standing is that Detective Green of that department contacted Gaz-
zoli. Green related to me that Gazzoli denied at first that the incident
had occurred, but subsequently passed it off, admitting that two people
had accosted him on the street that he considered drunks, and had
made some remark, and that he didn't credit it or take it in the manner
which we thought to be meant.
Some time, I believe, in May or June, which is about 2 or 3 months
after this alleged incident occurred
Mr. Kennedy. This is in 1958 ; last year.
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir. I believe it was May or June of
1958.
There was an attempted holdup of the Star Novelty Co., which Mr.
Gazzoli is the owner of. At that time he was, as related to me, sitting
in his ofhce, when he noticed three men approaching from the side-
walk, covering their faces with handkerchiefs.
As I get the story, Mr. Gazzoli drew a revolver from his pocket and
started shooting, as did these men. I understand that Mr. Gazzoli
was wounded nine times. The men that did the shooting, as I recall,
were out on bond from a robbery in East St. Louis.
At first blush this appeared to be a holdup attempt. We have in-
formation that we have not been able to verify, however, that these
individuals were given a substantial sum of cash to complete this
operation, to make it appear as a holdup, and, at the same time, to
eliminate Mr. Gazzoli.
Mr. Kennedy, Do you believe it was connected with his competition
of his business with the business of people such as John Vitale?
Captain PIackmeyer. I would have to answer you this way : There
is from a usually reliable source, and we have from other reliable
sources, information that the Anthony Novelty Co. was very interested
in Mr. Gazzoli's business entei'prise.
Mr. Kennedy. Can you answer the question ? What is your judg-
ment on it, that it was a robbery or an effort to rub out Mr. Gazzoli ?
Captain Hackmeyer. I would say that it was a good combination.
Primarily my personal opinion, derived from my information, was
that it was directed at Mr. Gazzoli.
16580 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Does Buster Wortman also have an interest in this
kind of a business, the coin-machine business ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir. lie is the controlling personality
in the Plaza Amusement Co.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't he one of the cliief members of the underworld
in the St. Louis area ?
Captain Hackmeyer. He certainly is.
Mr. Kennedy. So you have the two top gangsters in the St. Louis
area who are both in the coin-operated machine business. What would
be the reason in your estimation, as a law enforcement official, that
this type of business attracts these people ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Well, the profits are terrific, not only legiti-
mately but with the opportunity to control these tavern locations, as
I explained before, and should gambling have been permitted they
would have reaped a tremendous profit. Even without the gambling,
due to their method of operation, it is very simple for them to make
more than ap])ears on the records. There is a lot of top or soft money
involved in this pinball operation.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find also because of the fact that they have
cash available that they can make these loans to these location owners
and that is attractive, and that also the location owners are very sub-
ject to pressure?
Captain Hackmeyer. That is right, sir. They seem to have un-
limited capital.
Mr. Kennedy. It would not be necessary, really, to use violence to
a location owner in the St. Louis area, if you told him that either John
Vitale or Buster Wortman were behind the operation.
Captain Hackmeyer. The reputation, sir, carries great weight, and
it is hardly necessary to even indicate any muscle.
Mr. Kennedy. And both of their names have been closely associ-
ated with gang murders in the St. Louis area for many years ; is that
right?
Captain Hackmeyer. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And they have the reputations, both of them, of
being killers, and have the reputations of being the head of the under-
world in that area ?
Captain Hackmeyer. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So when you go to a location area and say "Buster
Wortman would like to have you move this machine in," there ordi-
narily wouldn't be a great deal of hesitation about it; is that right?
Captain Hackmeyer. That is right, sir. They w^ould more or less
appear, and their salesmen are known. Of course, they did have the
money. To give you an idea of the reputation founded or unfounded,
one location owner, when I asked him why he didn't change since he
complained about the reputation of these people in there, and he felt
he was being shorted on his cut from the cigarette machine, he said,
"You fight the Mafia, not me."
Tliat is the general reputation that these people have in the area.
Mr. Kennedy. So unless police officials such as yourself keep on top
of all of this, it is very difficult for anybody to survive ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Yes, sir, it would be. Of course, they have
gotten around the muscle angle now with the financial transactions,
or had attempted to.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16581
Mr. Kennedy. You had a gi-and jury, did you not, that looked into
this situation?
Captain Hackmeyer. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And didn't they reach the conclusion that the coin-
operated machine companies in the St. Louis area are dominated by
hoodlums and exconvicts ?
Captain Hackmeyer. No, sir. They concluded that several of the
companies were hoodlum-controlled. The greater majority of them
were operated by legitimate people.
Mr. Kennedy. 1 should have expressed it that way, having in mind
specitically the companies of Wortman and John Vitale.
Captain Hackmeitir. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they also reach a conclusion about the use of
these kinds of machines not for amusements but for gambling?
Captain Hackmeyi:r. That is right, sir. The jury report found,
and part of this was based on our estimate, that it is, again, a well-
founded estimate that in the county the coin-operated machines would
take in approximately $100,000 a week.
They felt that primarily most of the machines were not for amuse-
ment only. This was our feeling because most of these pinball
machines that we have come in contact with have been that bingo
model, have had the kickoff button in the back of them and reply
meters inside. That is why we were able to seize them.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find that they have their gambling stamps
or not ?
Captain Hachmeyer. We find in the St. Louis area when they first
bought the stamps and the information became available to us, they
then switched to Springfield. I believe the stamps are good in any
part of the district. Sometimes they would buy them out of State
so that we couldn't get the records.
The last that I recall they didn't buy them and in each case where
we made a gambling case against a pinball operator, a copy went to
the Treasury Department and they would assess them their fines and
penalties.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they find that these machines were taking the
wages of the workers, and that they were also attractive to school-
children, in the locations where they were attractive to schoolchildren ?
Captain Hackmeyer. Well, to answer that, the investigation was
primarily concerned with the relationships to the taverns and the
infiltration there. So we didn't come up against it with school-
children.
We had, of course, looked for that problem before, and we did not
find it out of context or out of proportion.
Mr. Kennedy. The loan operation of these major vending com-
panies, have you found that it was at a high rate of interest ?
Captain Hackmei-er. Yes, sir. I believe the records of some of
those companies indicated a legal rate but a high rate. The out-of-
pocket loans I could only guess what interest might be involved in
them.
Mr. Kennedy. And the estimate is that they take in some $100,000
every week, taken in by the operators of these coin machines ?
Captain Hackjieyer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
16582 EMPROPER ACTR-ITIES DC THE LABOR FIELD
Captain Hackmei-er. Mr. Counsel, may I add somethinp: I think
would be of interest to the committee ?
The Chairman. All ri^ht, sir.
Captain Hackmeyer. This grand jury was impaneled in September
of 1958 by Circuit Judge Weinstein to look into and determine if there
was organized crime in St. Louis County.
There was an incident that occurred which was of particular sig-
nificance to us in the community, which involved indirectly Mr.
Gazzoli. There were two incidents, actually.
The owner of a coin-operated vending company, a legitimate owner,
was subpenaed to testify before the grand jury, and he did. The day
after he testified, his wife received two phone calls — really, three.
What happened was that the phone rang twice within a 15-minute
interval and the housemaid answered the phone, and each time the
caller hung up.
On the third incident, the wife answered it and the voice told her,
"Tell so-and-so" meaning her husband, "that if he keeps shooting
his mouth off in front of the grand jury your kids will end up in a
ditch." These people contacted me and we arranged to give them
police protection. Nothing further developed on that.
Of even greater significance to the investigation was the fact that
approximately on December 15, the grand jury heard testimony from
Mr. Gazzoli, and from a routeman that worked for the Plaza Amuse-
ment Co., George Steele, plus other witnesses.
The usual reporter, stenotype reporter, that reported these hearings
was not available that day, and they had made arrangements for a
court reporting firm to come in, reputable people. The lady that took
the testimony after the jury recessed for the evening, took her steno-
type notes and in company with two other friends left the St. Louis
County Courthouse to proceed to downtown St. Louis to attend a
court reporters' dinner.
She put the notes and stenotype equipment in the car of her girl
friend that they drove down in. They drove to a garage. This garage
was used regularly by the woman that owned the car, to park. She
had a regular parking space. They left the car at the garage, pro-
ceeded to the dinner, and the car was parked on a mezzanine, the ]^oint
being that it was not on the street level but one floor above, and not in
the usual space.
This was due to crowded conditions at that time of the evening,
before Christmas. This was a 1955 Pontiac. Subsequently, a series
of events occurred. The parking attendant, who knew the woman
that owned the car, and also knew the car by the parking sticker,
recalled parking it in a specific spot in the mezzanine. To his best
recollection, about an hour later he noticed the car driving out, but he
didn't notice who was driving it. He was quite surprised when at
midnight the court reporter showed up for her car, and they reported
the car stolen to the St. Louis police.
At first we thought possil)ly that it was a car theft. ^AHien we re-
viewed the facts, we came up with certain findings.
No. 1. At approximately, the best we can determine, 5 or 10 minutes
after the theft of the car, a part-time employee of the court report-
ing firm that sometimes did stenotype translation at home received a
telephone call from an unidentified man who asked her, "Is this so-
EMPROPER ACTH^ITIKS IN THE LABOR FIELD 16583
and-so?" and she replied "Yes," and "Do you do translating of steno-
type notes for Miss Taylor?"
She said, "Who is this?" He said, "I didn't ask you that. I ask
you if you did translating." She repeated, "Who is this?" and he
hung the phone up.
This information that this woman did this part-time work was
not generally known outside of the court reporting profession^ as we
determined it. We also found that the automobile was parked m such
a position that there were 15 or 16 other newer model cars accessible
to a car thief. To date we have not recovered the car, and tins is
unusual in itself in that we recover, statistically, 95 percent of the
stolen cars.
Subsequent investigation revealed information that two employees
of the iVnthony Novelty Co. were seen, according to our informant, in
the vicinity of this garage on the night that this car was stolen. In
contacts with our underworld sources, these people tell us that the
reason these notes were taken was not necessarily for the intrinsic
value of tliem, but that certain groups were very interested to know
whether Mr. Gazzoli had said anything to the grand jury that might
incriminate them, that they were worried about this.
That fact of tlie theft of the notes and tlie telephone call to the
legitimate dealer, tend to solidify our feeling as to the seriousness of
the situation in our area.
The Chairman. That is going pretty far, is it not, to steal the offi-
cial records of the official proceedings?
Captain Hackmeyer. We think it was.
The Chairman. You haven't been able to track it down ?
Captain Hackmeyer. No, sir. The car completely disappeared.
We checked quarries, we checked the river, we did everything that
was available to us, and to date we have no information on the car.
The Chairman. Is there anything further?
Mr. KJENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Is that all for today ?
Mr. I^NNEDY. Yes.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Captain.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Captain.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 10:30
tomorrow morning.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess : Senators
McClellan and Church.)
(Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m. the select committee recessed, to recon-
vene at 10 :30 a.m., Wednesday, February 11, 1959.)
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
WEDNESDAY, FEBBUAEY 11, 1959
U.S. Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities
IN the Labor or Management Field,
Washington^ D.C.
The select committee met at 10:30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 44, airreed to February 2, 1959, in the caucus room. Senate Office
Building,''Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com-
mittee) presiding.
Present : Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas ; Senator
Frank Church, Democrat, Idaho.
Also present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; John P. Con-
standy, assistant counsel; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel;
Walter R. May, investigator; Sherman S. Willse, investigator;
Walter de Vaughn, investigator ; Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Church.)
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. ]Mr. John Vitale is the next witness.
The Chairman. AVill you be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Vitale. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN VITALE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
BERNARD J. MELLMAN
The Chairman. Statci your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation, please.
Mr. Vitale. John Vitale, St. Louis, Mo.
The Chairman. What is your street address ?
Mr. Vitale. 3725 Avondale.
The Chairman. What is your business or occupation ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. Do you have an attorney ?
Mr. Vitale. Yes.
The Chairman. Mr, Attorney, will you identify yourself for the
record.
16585
16586 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Mellman. Bernard J. Mellman, 408 Olive Street, St. Louis,
Mo.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr, Vitale, we had testimony before the committee
yesterday by Captain Hackmeyer of the St. Louis County Police re-
garding the activities of your company and other companies in the St.
Louis area dealing with coin-operated machines. You are in the coin-
operated machine 1 )usiness, Mr. Vitale ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. His testimony was that in 1955 he received informa-
tion that the Anthony Novelty Co. which deals with pinball machines,
bowling games, and jukeboxes, and you as president, were beginning
to be active.
Were you beginning to be active in 1955 with the Anthony Novelty
Co.?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. KJENNEDY. And you were expanding your operations into St.
Louis County ; is that right ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. This activity was accomplished simultaneously with
the distribution of cigarettes through the Automatic Cigarette Sales
Co. ; is that right ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the gromid I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Now the Automatic Cigarette Sales Co. was oper-
ated by Mr. Jack Joseph, who is merely acting as a front for you ; is
that correct ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And in order to get your places established your em-
ployees would go around to the various tavern owners and say "Mr.
John Vitale is the one behind this company," and they were able to
get their machines in these various taverns.
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And also that you were making loans to the various
tavern owners to induce them to put out the other machines and put
your own machines in.
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And these loans were in the form of cash ; is that
correct ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us where you got the cash from ?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what other businesses you are in
other tluin cohi-operated machine business?
Mr. Vitale. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16587
Mr. Kkxnedy. You are also described by the captain as probably
the leading figure in the Mafia or the syndicate in the St. Louis area;
is that correct?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy, And that most of the vice in the St. Louis area is
operated and controlled by you?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You and Mr. Buster Wortman ; is that right ?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy, You have other people such as Jack Joseph front-
ing for you in these various companies?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
crhninate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And that the loans are made through the Anthony
Discount Co. ; is that right ?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
jNIr. Kennedy, And the Anthony Discount Co. has offices in the
same building and shares the same office space as the Anthony Nov-
elty Co. ; is that right ?
^Ir. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr, Kennedy, There is a Missouri Amusement Machine Associa-
tion and your company is one of the very few companies that does
not belong to that association ; is that not correct ?
Mr, ViTALE, I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself,
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't that because of your connections and the fact
that you have this reputation that you feel you would not have to
belong to the association?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy, As we showed on these charts yesterday, you are
the gangster company that operates outside the association,
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, for instance you have other companies that are
operating which you actually control, and for instance the Murphy
Vending Co., which has the machines in the Kiel Auditorium in
St. Louis.
INIr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy'. Is it not a fact that these machines are in fact your
machines ?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us who your employees are ?
Mr. ViTALE, I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
16588 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Aren't two of them Leo Pisciotta and Joe Randazzo,
arrested in connection with the theft of the car that contained the
grand jury minutes?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you have served a sentence for the violation of
the Harrison Drug Act ; is that not right ?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
crimijiate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And have been arrested some 13 times between 1933
and 1958?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr, Kennedy. Including robbery and receiving stolen property?
Ml". ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to in-
criminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have already had the testimony
about this gentleman being in business with Mr. Barney Baker, and
so I won't go into that.
That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. What connection do you have with organized
labor?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. Have you ever done a decent thing in your life that
you can talk about without incriminating yourself ?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. Are you proud of being this kind of a fellow, that
you can't answer questions without incriminating yourself?
Mr. ViTALE. I decline to answer on the ground I may tend to in-
criminate myself.
The Chairman. Are there any questions ?
Senator Church. I have no questions.
The Chairman. Well, all this committee can do is to expose the
thugs and the crooks and the racketeers and so forth that are a
disgrace to decent civilization, and it is up to the Congress to pass
laws to deal with them.
You may stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Frank Zito, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate selex3t committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
"Mr. ZiTo. I do.
TESTIMONY OF FRANK ZITO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ROBERT G. HECKENKAMP
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation, please.
Mr. ZiTO. Frank Zito, Springfield, 111., 1801 Illini Road. Occupa-
tion, retired.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16589
Tlie Chairmax. Wliat is your occupation ?
Mv. ZiTO. I am retired.
The Chairman. You mean you are not now gainfully employed ; is
that correct?
Mr. ZiTO. I say retired.
The Chairman. I am not sure I understand you. Are you saying
^'retired"?
Mr. ZiTO. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What is your previous occupation ?
]\Ir. ZiTo. I refuse to answer on the ground it may intend to in-
criminate me.
The Chairman. You had better say "I decline to answer." There
is a little bit of respect that has to be maintained for the Government
of the United States.
Mr. ZiTO. Maybe I cannot say it right. You will have to excuse
me. I say the way I know it, and I am just telling it the way I
know it.
The Chairman. I am going to help you learn a different way.
You may show respect tor the committee by saying that you decline.
Mr. ZiTO. I decline.
The Chairman. You may decline to answer on the grounds it may
incriminate you.
]\Ir. ZiTO. I decline on the ground I may incriminate myself. I can
say it the way I know how. I cannot say it any other way.
The Chairman. I wanted to ascertain, you don't mean any dis-
respect for this committee.
Mr. ZiTO. Oh, well, I don't want to do that.
The Chairman. You don't want to say that ?
Mr. ZiTO. No ; I want to respect the committee.
The Chair]vian. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Do you have counsel with you? Mr. Counsel, will you identify
yourself, please,
Mr. Heckenkamp. My name is Robert Heckenkamp. I am a lawyer
licensed to practice in the State of Illinois, and I am located at 504
East Monroe Street, in the city of Springfield, 111.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Zito, according to our information you attended
the meeting at Apalachin, and I would like to ask you how you were
able to understand what you were talking about there.
Mr. ZiTO. I refuse to answer on the ground that I may incriminate
myself.
The Chairman. The Chair admonished you that instead of saying
"refuse" and showing disrespect, the Chair admonished you to say that
you decline to answer.
Mr. ZiTO. All right. Recline.
The Chairman. Wherever he says "recline," let the record show
that he means "decline." Is that correct?
Mr, ZiTO. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you speak English at the meeting at Apalachin?
Mr. Zito. I refuse to answer on the ground that I may tend to
incriminate myself.
36751 — 59— pt. 46 9
16590 IMPROPER ACTrV'ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell the committee what you discussed
at the meeting?
Mr. ZiTO. I refuse to answer on the ground
The Chairman. Can you remember the word "decline*'?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. All right. I will do my best.
The Chairman. I will help you now, but I want you to try.
Mr. ZiTo. That is all I can do, and I will do my best to explain
myself.
The Chairman. I can help you do a little better than some of the
things that you are doing now.
Mr. ZiTO. All right.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what you discussed at the meet-
ing at Apalachin ?
Mr. ZiTO. I recline — I can't say it right. You have to excuse me if
I can't.
The Chairman. All right. You decline to answer. Proceed.
Mr. ZiTo. Refuse — decline. I may incriminate myself. I recline —
may I am going to incriminate myself.
Tlie Chairman. All right ; proceed.
Have you any more questions ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes ; I do.
Mr. Zito, you were born where, and on what date ?
Mr. ZiTo. In Italy.
Mr. Kennedy. In Italy? Whereabouts?
Mr. ZiTO. In Italy. Sicily.
Mr. Kennedy. Sicily ? What was the date ?
Mr. ZiTO. What years? 1893.
Mr. Kennedy. February 24?
Mr. ZiTO. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. Palermo?
Mr. ZiTO. Near.
Mr. Kennedy. Near Palermo. And then you came to the United
States in 1910 ; is that right?
Mr. ZiTO. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. And for a few years you worked as a coal miner in
Alabama and Illinois?
Mr. Zito. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you work in any other States ?
Mr. ZiTO. I refuse an answer on the ground it may incriminate
myself.
The Chairman. The Chair instructed you to say you decline to
answer.
Mr. ZiTO. Decline. Excuse me. I don't mean I don't want to said
it. I don't mean I don't want to said it. I can't said it right.
The Chairman. Write it down in front of you. Can you write?
Mr. ZiTO. A little bit. Not very much.
The Chairman. Write a little bit of it down in front of you so you
can remember it.
Mr. ZiTO. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. Maybe he will answer some questions.
Just on your background, you worked as a coal minor. Wliere
were you living at that time ? That is, when you were working as a
coal miner?
IMPROPER ACTIVmES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16591
Mr. ZiTO. Benld.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliere?
Mr. ZiTO. Benld, 111.
Mr. Kennedy. When did you move to Springfield? Just about
when ?
Mr. ZiTO. About 1920.
Mr. Ivennedy. And there you started the Capital Products Co.?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to incriminate myself.
Mr. I^JENNEDY. And that was a supplier. You sold Italian prod-
ucts in Springfield?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. I may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And you had a distilling operation, also, for which
this acted as a front ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. IO:nnedy. From 1919 to 1931 you operated 14 stills in the
Springfield area?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. I may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. By 1937 you were in control of practically every
racket in the Springfield area?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. I may incriminate myself.
Mr. IvJENNEDY. And by early 1940, through at least 1948, you were
controlling the punchboards, the slot machines, the dice and the
poker games in the Springfield area ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1941 you were shot ; is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. I may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You were shot by Mauro John Montana, who was
ultimately convicted of the shooting ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Ejennedy. Montana is presently facing deportation proceedings
after being convicted of falsifying a naturalization application in
1930; is that right?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Among your companions and associates have been
Frank Dyer, Frank Campo, Paul Tremaine, Henry "Buster" de
Norro, Jasper Blandee, B-1-a-n-d-e-e or B-l-a_n-d-a-e, Vincent Salvo,
Dominick Campo, George Fassero ; is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. In connection with Apalachin, you were arrested
on November 14, 1957?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You had stayed at the Airport Motel in Newark,
N.J., on November 12, 13, and 14, 1957, prior to going to Apalachin?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Ivennedy. And you attended the meeting at Apalachin with
James Coletti of Pueblo, Colo. ; is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. I{iNNEDY. You were convicted in March 1931, for violation
of the National Prohibition Act ; is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Ivennedy. You received a 2-year sentence and a fine of $10,000 ;
is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
3 6592 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You made a downpayment of $1,000 on the $10,000
toward settlement of the fine, and it wasn't until 1957 that the Govern-
ment found that you still owed another $9,000 and collected it; is that
right?
Mr. ZiTO, I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. So after your meeting at Apalachin, the Govern-
ment was able to collect $9,000 that you had owed since 1931.
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Of all the assets that you had had up to that time,
all the assets you kept in your wife's name so that the Government
found it impossible to collect the fine prior to that time; is that right?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. You owned a tavern. You sold cigars. You sold
tickets on baseball pools, and you operate a dice game; is that right?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. And you have an interest in a cab company, the
Security Cab Co., in Springfield ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. In connection with the coin-operated machines, Mr.
Chairman, and in connection with the testimony that we had yesterday
regarding the setting up by the operators of the union, we have some
documents here that I would like to ask Mr. Zito about and have him
identify. This is the first one.
The Chairman. I hand you what purports to be a photostatic copy
of a letter dated July 28, 1948, addressed to AMI Phonographs, 2009
Fulton Street, Chicago, 111. Apparently it is signed Modern Dis-
tributing Co., by Frank Zito.
I ask you to examine this photostatic copy and state if you identify
it as being a copy of the original.
(The document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Zito. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. You have seen the letter, have you, the photostatic
copy?
Mr. Zito. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. Let the record show he is looking at it when he
answered the question, please.
Did you sign that letter?
Mr. Zito. Yes.
The Chairman. What kind of a union were you talking about?
Mr. Zito. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. All right. He identifies the letter. Let it be made
exhibit No. 7.
(Letter referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 7" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 16929.)
Mr. Hackenkamp. May it please the chairman, I think the witness
was confused in answering the question that he signed. I think he
was directing his answer to the question of did he see it.
The Chairman. All right. I will ask you again. Do you see the
letter before you ?
Mr. Zito, Yes. Didn't I say yes a while ago? I think I did. I
don't know.
The Chairman. Well, I asked you. You first declined to answer.
Mr. Zito. Yes, I do.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16593
The Chairman. You now see the letter before you, do you?
Mr. ZiTO. Yes.
The Chairmax. Did you sign it ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to answer. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. You decline to answer that; it may incriminate
you. Is that correct ?
Mr. ZiTO. Yes.
The Chairman. Is that your signature ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. Let the letter be made exhibit No. 7.
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to have the letter read into the record,
Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. This letter is on stationery of the ModeiTi Dis-
tributing Co., Springfield, 111, 225 North 5th Street, dated July 28,
1948.
A.M.I. Phonographs
2009 Fulton Street
Chicago 12, Illinois
Dear Mike
We have received our charater [sic] for a union, for the automatic phono-
graphs' here in Springfield. We have been requested to draw up our own
By Laws and Contract, by this Saturday July 31, this is the reason we are
writing you at this time. We understand that your union in Chicago is operat-
ing very successfully and would appreciate you sending us a copy of your
By Laws so that we may outline ours along these lines as near as possible.
Mike we would like getting this information as soon as possible do [sic]
to the fact they will install our officers and ask for our By Laws and Con-
tract on the next meeting [sic] on the above mentioned date.
Your friend
Modern Distributing Company.
Frank Zito.
All right, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, the significant part of this, of course,
is that
We have received our charter for a union.
This is from Frank Zito, who is an employer. This is for the auto-
matic phonographs here in Springfield.
We have been requested to draw up our bylaws and contract by this Satur-
day, July 31, and this is the reason we write you at this time. We understand
that your union in Chicago is operating very successfully and would appreci-
ate you sending us a copy of your bylaws so that we may outline ours along
these lines as near as possible.
Then we have two letters indicating that a copy of the bylaws was
sent by Michael Spagnola.
The Chairman. I hand you two photostatic copies of letters, one
dated July 31, 1948, addressed to you, from Micliael Spagnola, of the
Auto-Phono Distribution Co. I guess that is Auto-Phonograph
Distribution Co.
The other is addressed to you, dated September 15, 1948, from Auto-
matic Phonograph Distribution Co., signed by JNIichael Spagnola.
Will you examine those photostatic copies and see if you identify
them ?
[The documents were handed to the witness.]
The Chairman. Have you examined the letters?
Mr. Zito. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
16594 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. All right. Are you looking at them now? You
see the letters in front of you, do you ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The Chairman. Do you identify them ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. The letters may be made exhibits Nos. 7A and 7B,
in the order of their dates.
(Letters referred to were marked "Exhibits 7A and 7B" for refer-
ence and will be found in the appendix on pp. 16930-16931.)
Mr. Kennedy. The letters indicate that the bylaws were sent down,
Mr. Chairman, and again shows the close relationship between the
association and the union, and also showing the difficulties of investi-
gating these kinds of matters.
For instance, this coin operation was not in Mr. Zito's name. It was
in somebody else's name. It was only upon an examination of other
records that we learned of Mr. Zito's interest, and also the fact that
when we procured some income-tax returns from an independent
source we found that Mr. Zito in a couple of years had taken tax losses
on the operation of the pinball machmes in the Springfield area.
So people that operate such as Mr. Zito, and operate through third
parties and fronts, with them it is often very difficult to make a com-
plete investigation.
The Chaikman. The Chair may state that the letter dated July 31,
1948, promises to send a copy of the bylaws, which are not immediately
in their possession. It seems they had been loaned to somebody else
at the time.
The letter of September 15, 1948, transmits the bylaws to Mr. Zito.
All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, after Mr. Hammergren withdrew
from the Wurlitzer Co. many of the people that he had brought in
transferred over and received their machines from the AMI Co. Dur-
ing the course of the hearings we will be developing that situation, but
we have here another letter which this witness cannot identify, but
which gives an indication as to the situation during the early 1950's,
as far as the operation of hoodlums and gangsters in these companies.
The Chairman. That letter will have to be properly identified.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kaplan can do it.
TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR G. KAPLAN— Resumed
The Chairman. You have already been sworn, Mr. Kaplan. You
may be interrogated about the letter.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you identify to whom the letter is written and
by whom ?
Mr. Kaplan. Yes.
The Chairman. Where did you procure the letter? How did you
get it?
Mr. Kaplan. I procured this letter from an examination of the
files of the Automatic Phonograph Distributing Co. in Chicago, which
was the franchised distributorship that was owned in part by Joseph
Glimko and a union official in Chica^x), Fred Thomas Smith.
The letter is addressed to a Mr. Divinnell, Minneapolis Security
Corp., Minneapolis, Minn. It is under date of February 26, 1951.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16595
The Chairman. The letter may be made exhibit No. 8.
(Letter referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 8" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 1()0;V2.)
Mr. Kennedy. In the letter, Mr. Kaplan, there is some discussion
about various individuals.
Mr. Kaplan. Yes, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. I will read just the pertinent part, Mr. Chairman.
It is to Mr. Di^annell, Minneapolis, and from the Automatic Phono-
graph Distributing Co.
Dear Bill : I appreciate your good intentions in sending me the information
you did on Modern Distributing Co. and on Mike Keros.
■\Vlio is Mike Keros?
Mr. Kaplan. One of the persons down in there.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about his background ?
Mr. Kaplan. No.
Mr. KJENNEDY (reading) :
I must confess that we already knew as much, but we also have other knowl-
edge which influenced us to accept the deal. We have personal knowledge of the
Zito brothers, and know their connections, politically and otherwise. I don't
expect any more contracts with them but if it should be necessary I know the
risk involved would be as good as any we have ever had. The Keros deal in-
volves one more AMI, and the contract will probably be forthcoming this week.
The first phonograph was not for his place of business as you might have sup-
posed.
Then it goes on. The letter indicates that they were aware at the
time that the arrangements were made with the Zito brothers, that
they were aware of the background of Zito.
It is of significance, Mr. Chairman, that this distributing company
in Chicago was a company that was owned at that time, and up until
recently, by Mr. Joey Glimco, who was a Teamster Union official,
who has been arrested a large number of times, twice for murder, and
this other union official, Fred Smith
Mr. Kaplan. Fred Thomas Smith, known as "Jukebox Smitty."
Mr. Kennedy. He also had an interest, the union official, in what
union ?
Mr. Kaplan. Local 134 of the IBEW.
Mr. Ivennedy. Did they have jurisdiction over the coin machines?
Mr. Kaplan. That imion had jurisdiction over all coin machines in
Chicago.
Mr. Kennedy. So here are two union officials that controlled the
company, one of them being the union official in control of the local
that had jurisdiction in these matters.
The Chairivian. In other words, those labor leaders were in the
jukebox business?
Mr. Kennedy. That is correct. And these letters here are from the
same company, Michael Spagnola of the Automatic Phonogi'aph
Distributing Co., the letters written to Zito telling him about the
setup of the union in Chicago.
"AVe hear you have a good union there." Here it is written to a
company that is owned and controlled by two union officials, one of
whom is the union official who has charge of the union.
As far as Mr. Zito's brother, who was also in this business, his
name was Mr. Anthony Zito. Is that right ?
Do you have a brother Anthony ?
16596 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF FRANK ZITO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ROBERT G. HECEIENKAMP— Resumed
Mr. ZiTO. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. He was in this business with you ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been arrested seven times and convicted for
violation of the internal revenue laws, sentenced to 8 years in prison.
He was arrested for bootlegging, carrying firearms, arson, and assault
with a deadly weapon. Is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know a man by the name of De Rosa ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. He was a pinball operator, a pinball operator in
Illinois, during 1956-57?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. He was an employee at one time of your brother,
Anthony Zito ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. He was a pinball operator until his headless body
was found in a cornfield in Sangamon County on December 6, 1957 ;
is that right ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. His body was found after a farm dog found the
head and brought it to its master ?
Mr. Zito. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about his being killed ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. He had worked for your brother and then had set up
a company in competition with your brother. Wasn't that one of the
problems ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
The Chairman. Has anybody been convicted for that ?
Mr. Kennedy. No. It is still under investigation, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Church. Wlien did it happen ?
Mr. Kennedy. His body was found December 6, 1957.
Could you tell us if the coin machine business was considered at the
meeting at Apalachin ?
Mr. ZiTO. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that this was discussed, that it was
one of the things that was discussed ?
Mr. ZiTO, I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy, Do you know the penalty that was levied on Mr. Lom-
bardozzi, who attended the meeting in Apalachin ?
Mr. Zito. I decline to. It may incriminate myself.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Have you any questions, Senator ?
Senator Church. No questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right. Stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Michael Genovese.
Mr. Chairman, we have had witnesses from New Jersey, Missouri,
Illinois, who are prominent figures in the jutebox business. I would
now like to call Mr. Genovese.
IIVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN TIIE LABOR FIELD 16597
The Chairman, Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall <^ive
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and iiothin<^ but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr, Genovese. I do,
TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL GENOVESE, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, VINCENT M. CASEY
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr, Genovese, Michael Genovese, R,D, No, 2, Gibsonia, Pa. At the
present time I am not doing anything.
The Chairman. At the present time you are not employed ?
Mr, Genovese, Yes, sir.
The Chairman, Do you have counsel ?
Mr. Genovese, Yes, sir.
The Chairman, Identify yourself,
Mr, Casey, Vincent M, Casey, 720 Grant Building, Pittsburgh, Pa.
The Chairman. You may proceed,
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Genovese, the records that we have show that
you and Mr. John Sebastian LaRocca were partners in the L. & G.
Amusement Co., which distributes coin machines in Pittsburgh. Is
that correct?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. John LaRocca attended the meeting at Apala-
chin.didhenot?
JNIr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
it may tend to lead to incriminate me,
]\Ir, Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you also attended the meeting at
Apalachin?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that Mr. Barbara, Junior, had re-
served a three-room suite for you at the Arlington Hotel, in Bing-
hamton, N.Y,, and that it was charged to the Canada Dry Bottling
Co.?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennnedy. Isn't it correct that on November 13, 1957, you
and John LaRocca registered at the hotel and left the hotel on
November 14, the day of the meeting?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to lead to incriminate me,
Mr. Kennedy. And isn't it correct that you were apprehended
with John Asticcio, from New Kensington, Pa., John Sciandra, from
Pittston, Pa., and Gabriel Mannarino, from New Kensington, Pa. ?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And isn't it correct that John LaRocca was one of
those who was never apprehended at the meeting?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my
answer may tend to incriminate me.
16598 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. We have been looking for Mr. LaRocca for a period
of approximately a year, and I understand other Government
bodies have also been looking for him.
Could you tell us what happened to Mr. LaRocca ?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my
answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you know whether he is still alive or not ?
Mr. Genovese. I don't know. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. You have already answered.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Now you knew Mr. Peter Valente of Rochester,
N.Y., who attended the Apalachin meeting with Frank Valente?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us why you have been in touch with
them?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about the operation of the
Club 30 outside of Pittsburgh ?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That is not outside of Pittsburgh; it is in Chester,
W. Va. Do you have an interest in that, the Club 30, in Chester,
W. Va.?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to lead to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are an associate of Ralph "Foots" Arcadia,
Albert "Boots" Bellini, Daniel Bellini, and Thomas Henry "Moon"
Mullins ; is that right ?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Richard Ambrose ?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You are one of the primary figures in the control
of the numbers racket in the East Liberty and Homewood districts
of Pittsburgh?
Mr. Geno^^se. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You were a close associate of Sam Mannarino; is
that right?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline.
Mr. Kennedy. The guns that were being flown to Cuba recently,
when the plane was apprehended, guns that had been stolen from
an armory in Ohio, those guns were being sent by Mr. Mannarino,
were they not?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. They were being sent in connection with the revolu-
tion in Cuba.
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about that ?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16599
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. "Were you questioned in connection with that?
JNIr. Genovese. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you questioned in connection with it?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it not correct that you owned a fami near the
airport from where the guns were placed on the plane?
Mr. GEN0^^ESE. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Have any of your employees in this coin-machine
business that you are in, are any of your employees members of any
labor union ?
]\Ir. Genovtese. I respectfully decline to answer.
i\Ir. Kennedy. Could you tell us why you went into the coin-
operating machine business?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what arrangements you have as
far as the union is concerned?
jMr. Genovese. I decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that any union that exists does not help
or assist any of the employees but helps only the employers?
Mr. Geno\'ese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been arrested a number of times, and been
convicted of robbery, is that correct, in 1936 ?
Mr. Genovese. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us if the coin-operating machine
business was discussed at the meeting at Apalachin ?
Mr. Geno\t:se. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. Are there any questions?
Senator Church. No, Mr. Chairman, I have no questions.
The Chairman. Stand aside, and call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Joseph Salardino.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Salardino. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH SALARDINO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ALAN Y. COLE
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Salardino. Joe Salardino, 2430 West 41st, Denver, Colo.
The Chairman. Are you retired ?
Mr. Salardino. On advice of counsel I take the fifth amendment
and stand on my constitutional rights and decline to answer any
questions.
The Chairman. Have you ever been employed ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer.
The Chairman. I believe you have counsel present. Counsel, iden-
tify yourself.
Mr. Cole. Alan Y. Cole, 815 15th Street NW., Washington, D.C.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Salardino, could you tell us where you were born
and on what date ?
16600 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The information we have is you were born in Monroe,
La., on July 5, 1905 ; is that correct?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
The Chairman. Would the fact you were born in Louisiana, you
think, tend to incriminate you, or born in this country ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the information that we have, you
became involved in the coin-operating machine business in January of
1956; is that right?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time you entered into a partnership with
Clarence Michael "Chauncey" Smaldone ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
may tend lo incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. As well as Paul Clyde Dilano ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is a nephew of Mr. Smaldone; is that right?
Mr. Salardino. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground it
may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That was a vending machine company known as the
J. C. & P. Vending Co. ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it located at 4101 Dejune Street, Denver, Colo. ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You started in the cigarette machine business, ex-
panded into the jukebox business, and ultimately into the pinball
machine field ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And at the beginning employed the services of Frank
"Blackie" Mazza ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the gromid it may tend to
incriminate me.
INIr. Kennedy. And the purpose of Mr. Mazza was because of his
connections to place machines in businesses where other vending com-
panies ah-eady had machines ?
Mr. Salari)Ino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Now you have been friendly with the Smaldone
brothers for a long period of time ?
Mr. Salardino. 1 decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. There was Clyde George, "Flip-Flop" Smaldone, one
of the brothers you were friendly with ; is that right ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16601
Mr. Salardixo. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And Eugene "Checkers" Smaldone ?
Mr. SALAitDiNO. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. As well as Chauncey Smaldone whom you went in
business with ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, they are reputed to be the most notorious
racketeers in the Colorado area ; are they not ?
Mr. Salakdino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. "Checkers" and "Plip-Flop" are now serving 12-
year terms in the 'Federal penitentiary at Leavenworth.
Mr. Salardino. 1 decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. xVnd you have also been friendly with other under-
world figures in the United States, have you not ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You attended the wedding of Carmela Profaci to
Anthony Joseph Tocco ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And present also at that meeting were Mrs. Angelo
Palessi, as well as John Ormento.
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You stayed in room 640 ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And you went there with your brother Gus ; is that
right?
JNIr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You also have been friendly with James Coletti, of
Pueblo, Colo.
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Ke was one of those who attended the gangland
meeting at Apalachin.
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are frequently in contact with him; is
that ri^ht ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Ivennedy. And to show the close connection that you have
with these individuals, isn't it corect that the Frank "Blackie" Mazza,
who originally worked for your coin-operating machine business, has
for a long time been the enforcer for the Smaldone organization?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
16602 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You have also been friendly with Joseph "Scotty"
Sinuzzi, who was formerly associated with the Boulder Club in Las
Vegas.
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And who controlled the gambling of Pueblo ; is that
right?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And also with "Momo" Adamo, who is a lieutenant
of Jack Dragna ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. In fact, when Dragna's address book was picked
up, he had your address and telephone number in it, did he not?
Mr, Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. KJENNEDY. And your brother at the present time operates
Sali's Music Co. in Pueblo.
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't there an association of coin-machine opera-
tors and sei-vicemen called the Colorado Music Merchants Associa-
tion, and didn't they sign a contract with local 105 of the Building
Service Employees in 1957 ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground that it may tend
to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't it agreed that the contract, or under the
contract in the agreement and the association, all machines would
have the union sticker ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground that it may tend
to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that on the board of trustees was
Mr. Sam Salardino, your brother?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground that it may tend
to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Didn't they agree in 1958 that they would cooperate
"among one another against unethical solicitation of one operator's
location by another" ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground that it may tend
to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Wasn't a committee appointed in April of 1958 to
study the problem of jumping locations, and isn't it a fact that your
brother was on that committee ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that the union does not operate to
help the employees, but just to help the employers?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may t^nd to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Sam Salardino and Charles Salardino, brothers of
yours, operate the Charles Salardino Music Co. in Florence, Colo. ?
niPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16603
Mr. Salardixo, I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about the Paradise Club in
Canon City, Colo. ?
Mr. Salakdino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliicli is operated by your brother, Gus Salardino?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. K!ennedy. And it shows telephone contacts with Jolin Or-
mento, who is a notorious narcotics figure in the East, and James
Scaletti ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been convicted of violation of the Prohi-
bition Act and convicted of robbery in 1935, and sentenced to 15 to 25
years in the State Penitentiary ; is that right?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Paroled in 1938 ; is that right ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. This witness remained in this coin-machine business
in Denver only for a period of 1 year, and, according to our informa-
tion, it was because of the activities of the police in that area that
finally ended the pressure that this witness and his associates were
putting on small tavernowners in the Denver area. So, after we fin-
ish with this witness I would like to call a member of the Denver
Police Department to describe the situation.
The Chairman. Do you want to make any explanation of that situ-
ation out there ?
Mr. Salardino. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to
incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you want to call a witness regarding this
matter ?
Jklr. Kennedy. About the activities in Colorado.
The Chairrian. The next witness will relate to this witness' ac-
tivities.
You may stand aside for the moment and stay within hearing dis-
tance of the next witness, and we are going to call a witness to give
some testimony that might be of interest to you.
Stand aside for the present.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Captain Nelson.
The Chairman. Captain Nelson, will you come around.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Captain Nelson. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CAPT. WALTER G. NELSON
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and
your present occupation or position.
16604 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES il\ THE LABOR FIELD
Captain Nelson. Walter G. Nelson, No. 1 E Street, Denver. Cap-
tain of police, in charge of the intelligence division, Denver Police
Department.
The Chairman. How long have you occupied that position,
Captain ?
Captain Nelson. I have been in charge of the intelligence division
for 5 years.
The Chairman. How long have you been in the police department?
Captain Nelson. 17 years.
The Chairman. All of the time in Denver?
Captain Nelson. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
Mr. ICennedy. Now, Captain Nelson, you are familiar with Mr.
Joseph Salardino?
Captain Nelson. I am.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us a little bit about his background ?
Captain Nelson. Mr. Salardino first came to our attention in
December of 1955, shortly after Clyde Smaldone had been sentenced
to the Federal penitentiary. At the time he first came to our atten-
tion he was associating with other police characters whom we had
under surveillance at all times, and we checked him out a little fur-
ther and he was living with Anthony Smaldone, a brother of Clyde
and Eugene, at 3740 Wyandott.
In January of 1956, we received information that a vending
machine company to be known as the J.C. & P., the J for Joe Siilar
dino, and C for Chauncey Smaldone, and the P for Paul Valano, was
starting business at 4101 Dejune, with the intentions of putting ciga-
rette machines into taverns. There was a lag of approximately >>
weeks from the time that they made their intentions known until
their machines were delivered in Denver. They bought 40 National
vending machines.
During this period of time, we contacted as many tavern owners
as we could and told them if they wanted to do business with tliese
gentlemen on a legitimate basis they were free to do so, but if they
were being scared or intimidated by the Smaldone's or Mr. Salar-
dino, we would take care of any trouble of that nature.
Mr. Kennedy. They had a notorious reputation in Colorado?
Captain Nelson. Very much so.
Mr. Kennedy. And you rate the Smaldones and Joseph Salardino
as the most serious police characters that you liad ?
Captain Nelson. The Smaldones were the ones in Denver that were
the most serious police characters that we had, and the information we
received when INIr. Salardino was sent down, he was sent down from
the Kansas City area to take over wliile the Smaldones were in prison,
to take charge of the operation and be headman.
The Chairman. What were the Smaldones sent to prison for?
Captain Nelson. Bribing a Federal jury on an income tax evasion
case.
Mr. Kennedy. Why, in your estimation, would they go into the
coin-operating machine business, Captain ?
Captain Nelson. They have been in tlie bookmaking and parlay
card business previously, and getting into the taverns is tlie best place
where you have the best reason to go into the taverns when they are
EVEPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16605
going on legitimate business, to pick up and put down both the parhiy
cards and also any booking activity that might be there. It gives them
a good front for the illegal activity.
Mr. Kennedy. And who did they use initially ?
Captain Nelson. They used Frank ''Blackie" Mazza, who has a
reputation of being the enforcer or muscleman for the Smaldone out-
fit in the past. He has been their No. 1 enforcer.
Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean by "enforcer" ?
Captain Nelson. If someone got out of line, Blackie was the one
who went in to throw rocks through the windows or muscled and
pushed them aromid, and got into fights with them and would burn
cars, gasoline thrown on cars, and just the routine that is used to
terrorize people in order to get them to do busine-ss.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the one they first used to go around and see
these tavern owners ?
Captain Nelson. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they select any specific type of tavern owner,
or did they go to all of them, or what ?
Captain Nelson. They went to all of the tavern owners, primarily.
Their success in getting machines in was only with the Italian tavern
owners and they didn't get many machines in any other owners of any
other nationality.
Mr. Kennedy. Who were perhaps subject to more pressure at that
time?
Captain Nelson. Subject to more pressure, and also some of them
were friends of theirs.
Mr. Kennedy. What ultimately happened ? Were they able to get
started very significantly in the Denver area ?
Captain Nelson. They had 40 machines, and legitimate owners told
us it took at least 100 to even make ends meet, and after about 6 months
their activity fell off, and at the end of the year, in January of 1957,
they contacted the legitimate cigarette vending machine companies
and told them that they would sell them back the 40 machines that
were on location, at the new price, even though the machines were a
year old at that time, with the threat that if they didn't buy these
locations back they would bring in a man from Pueblo who would tear
the town apart.
Mr. Kennedy. So did they buy them back ?
Captain Nelson. They bought them back ; yes, sir; and every legiti-
mate owner who had lost a location bought the machine in that par-
ticular location back, so they had the same locations back.
Mr. Kennedy. They got their money back ?
Captain Nelson. And they got their money back; that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they send people in from Pueblo very fre-
quently, or do you have many contacts between your group in Denver
and the ^roup in Pueblo ?
Captain Nelson. There are very definite contacts between Denver
and Pueblo.
In 1951, the grand jury investigation, Lester Dockland, who was
brought in to run a wire service in the adjoining county, where they
did $1 million business in a j'ear, testified to the grand jury that Dave
Bucumbusso and Joe
Mr. Kennedy. "\^^io was the first one ?
36751—59 — pt. 4C 10
16606 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Captain Nelson. Dave Bucumbusso, B-u-c-u-m-b-u-s-s-o-. And
Joe Salardino and Charlie Blandon, and Eugene and Clyde Smaldone
were the bosses of this wire outfit that was in Denver, It has been
general knowledge that when there is something going on in the
Pueblo area, Denver money is invested, and when there is something
going in the Denver area, Pueblo money is invested.
Caiion City is just a few miles from Pueblo, and it comes in the
same general area.
Mr. Kennedy, Is that Lester Laughlin who worked up at Chicago ?
Captain Nelson. Yes. Lester Laughlin had worked with Moe An-
nenberg in the wire service. He was brought in on the North Federal
Brokerage Service. As soon as he taught the boys the ropes and they
knew how to handle the wire service themselves, he was froze out.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliat about Scotty Spinuzzi ?
Captain Nelson. He is well known in the Pueblo area. Scotty
Spinuzzi and Joe Salardino were picked up together in the north part
of Denver several years ago. During the time that the J.C. & P.
was in operation, they were brought into my office and I interviewed
Mr. Spinuzzi. His reason for being in Denver at that time was that
he wanted to buy seven or eight used cigarette machines.
Mr. Kennedy. WTiat is the situation now ? Have they tried to get
back in since 1957 ?
Captain Nelson. The situation has been very quiet at the present
time. They have not attempted to get back into the vending machine
business.
Mr. Kennedy. I think, Mr. Chairman, this shows what can happen
if a police department stays on top of these people.
The Chairman. Is there anything further?
Senator Church. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Do you think by a police force being diligent and
alert, fearless, it can be effective in dealing with these racketeers and
crooks ? Do you ?
Captain Nelson. That is correct, sir.
The Chairman. So in many areas where a community is inflicted
with this evil of racketeering and gangsterism, there must be some
responsibility on the part of the local law enforcement officers ; is that
correct ?
Captain Nelson. That is correct.
The Chairman. In other words, if they really want to clean it up,
and will go out to do it, they can, in large measure, control and elimi-
nate it ; is that your judgment ?
Captain Nelson. I think that is a fair statement, sir.
The Chairman. I certainly want to conmiend you and others of
your department for your vigilance and for your courage, and for
the job you do ot keep these crooks out of your community.
Captain Nelson. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. You are to be commended, sir, and I hope many
other law-enforcement officials throughout the country will emulate
your courage and your effective work.
Senator Church ?
Senator Church. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to say in that
connection that this points up the fact that local law enforcement is
indispensable to cleaning out the kind of corruption that this com-
IMPROPER ACTRTTIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16607
mittee has exposed. We talk a lot about what Congress is going to
do. Well, I think that doubtlessly congressional laws are needed and
reform is needed at the congressional level. I am hopeful that we
will have Federal reform laws in this field enacted in tliis session of
the Congress.
But it is misleading to assume that any kind of congressional enact-
ment will ever constitute a solution to this problem. At the very
best, it is just one step in the right direction. I have sat on this com-
mittee for more than a year, and seldom have there been instances
of corruption, of shakedown practices in local communities of one
kind or another that have not, in fact, been in violation of existing
peace laws in those communities.
Yet these practices go on because of the lack of effective law en-
forcement at the local level. Certainly I think that it has been one
of the important functions of this committee to alert the American
people to these practices so that in their indignation they can call upon
local police authorities, local district attorneys, to do their job.
But we would be doing a disservice to the country, and so, too, will
the press, if it leaves with the American people the impression that
Congress can solve this problem. Congress cannot. It can do its
part, but the real solution will come from an indignant people at all
levels of government. The most important work of all will be done
in each individual community.
I, too, want to join with the chairman in commending the witness
who has come here this morning, and I want to thank him for liis
testimony.
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. I do have a couple more questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Very well.
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to say in connection with Senator
Church's statement that certainly we have also had great help and
assistance from police departments, for instance, in Los Angeles, St.
Louis, and New York City, as well as Denver.
Has Mr. Salardino lived quite well out in Denver ?
Captain Nelson. He lives very well. He frequents the best res-
taurants and does no work, to our knowledge, in the 2 years that he
has been out of the vending machine business.
Mr. Kennedy. According to information that we have from one
source, w^e understand that he has never, in the last 6 years, declared
more than $1,900 on his income tax.
Captain Nelson. That is very probably true. His car is listed in
his wife's name.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know how somebody like that, who is a
notorious figure, is able to live to get by year after year without
making a proper representation to the Federal Government as to the
amount of income that he is earning or receiving?
Captain Nelson. Our information is that the money he is receiv-
ing is received through gambling, primarily, and that is awfully hard
to prove for the Federal Government. It is a cash transaction.
Mr. Kennedy. We can find out by making, for instance, a net-
worth study, how much money he is spending every j'ear.
Captain Nelson. I would not be surprised if that was not being
done.
16608 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, he is certainly spending more than
perhaps $90 in one year.
Captain Nelson. I have an idea, Mr. Kennedy, that there probably
is a study being made of that at this time.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Captain.
Mr. Kenn7:dy. Mr. Raymond Patriarca.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Patriarca. I do.
TESTIMONY OF RAYMOND PATRIAECA, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
CHARLES A. CURRAN AND SAUL FRIEDMAN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Patriarca. My name is Raymond Patriarca. I live at 165 Lan-
caster Street, Providence, R.I. I am employed by the Sherwood
Manufacturing Co. as a sales manager.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
You liave counsel present ?
Mr. CuRRAN. Yes, Mr. Chairman. My name is Charles A. Curran,
with oflices in the Industrial National Bank Building in Providence.
My law partner, Mr. Friedmen, is here.
Mr. Friedman. My name is Saul Friedman, of the same office, asso-
ciated with Mr. Curran.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us where you were born ?
Mr. Patriarca. I was born in Worcester, Mass.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the date ?
Mr. Patriarca. 1908, March 17.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you live there ?
Mr. Patriarca. How long did I live there ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Patriarca. My folks lived in Providence, but when my mother
used to give birth, she would go to Worcester. My grandmother lived
there. Then she would come back.
Mr. Kennedy. Then did you move to Providence ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir. I was raised up in Providence. I went to
Point Street School and to Federal Street School.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you do after you graduated from school ?
Mr. Patriarca. After I graduated from school I worked as a bellboy
at the Biltmore Hotel.
Mr. Kennedy. What year would this be ?
Mr. Patriarca. When the Biltmore opened up, the first year it
opened up. What year was that— 1923 ? 1923 or 1924?
Mr. Kennedy. Then what did you do after that ?
Mr. Patriarca. Then I lost my father and I guess I drifted a little.
I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. What sort of business did you have ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Patriarca. During what period, sir ?
Mr. Kennedy. Well, starting after you left as a bellboy at the Bilt-
more Hotel. What did you do then ?
IIVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16609
Mr. Patriarca. Well, I worked on and off as a salesman.
Mr. Kennedy. What sort of businesses did you have ?
Mr. Patriarca. I didn't have no business, but I worked as a sales-
man on and off.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you work for? Wliat sort of a salesman?
Mr. Patriarca. I used to buy stuff and go out and sell it in cars.
Mr. Kennedy. Sell it in cars ?
Mr. Patriarca. Not cars. Sell merchandise from a car.
Mr. Kennedy. What kinds of merchandise did you buy and sell ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, anything that you could pick up, like you buy
stuff wholesale, like sweaters, hosiery, and stuff like that.
Mr. Kennedy. And you used to tour around selling sweaters ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. From whom did you buy the sweaters ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, in them days it used to be down there on
Canal Street. Today them people are out of business. That is a long
time ago. That is 30 years ago.
Mr. Kennedy. What were the names of some of the companies ?
Mr. Patriarca. Solomon, Mr. Charlie Solomon.
Mr. Kennedy. You used to buy sweaters from him ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And sell them in the Providence area ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did that last ?
Mr. Patriarca. I dont' know. That is quite a while back.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you do after you sold sweaters ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, I guess I did — I don't know what I done.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliat did you do after that ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, I guess I did nothing.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't do anything? When did you start doing
something ?
Mr. Patriarca. I started doing something in 1944.
Mr. Kennedy. From 1930 or so to 1944 you didn't do anything ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, I would say from 1932 until 1944.
Mr. Kennedy. And then what did you do in 1944 ?
Mr. Patriarca. In 1944 1 went to work in a restaurant.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the name of the restaurant ?
Mr. Patriarca. Louie's Restaurant on Apples Avenue, Providence.
Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing there ?
Mr. Patriarca. What, sir ?
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat were you doing there ?
Mr. Patriarca. I was a counterman, and manager, like.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you work in his restaurant ?
Mr. Patriarca. I worked there about a year or a year and a half.
Mr. Kennedy. That takes us up to 1945. What did you do in 1945 ?
Mr. Patriarca. Then in 1945 I — I played horses.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you play the horses? You went from
working at Louie's Bar to playing horses ?
Mr. Patriarca. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you play the horses ?
Mr. Patriarca. I think I played horses until 1950.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you tour the country ?
16610 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir. I stood in Providence.
Mr. Kennedy. You just plaj^ed the horses in Providence.
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir. Went to the track.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you make every year playing
horses ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know. I used to file it in my income. Maybe
$3,500 or $4,000 at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. That was just playing the track at Providence ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The horses ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you play the dogs, too ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Just the horses ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Then that takes us up to 1950. What did you do
then?
Mr. Patriarca. Then I went into the Sherwood Manufacturing
Co. with Vincent Meli.
Mr. Kennedy. Sherwood Manufacturing Co. ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What do they do ?
Mr. Patriarca. They manufacture sport jackets.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you know Vincent Meli ?
Mr. Patriarca. I was born and brought up with him.
Mr. Kennedy. Vincent Meli, in Providence ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you put into that company ?
Mr. Patriarca. At that time ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Patriarca. I think about $12,000.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the $12,000 ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, my mother left me money, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When did she die ?
Mr. Patriarca. My mother died in 1944.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliere had the money been kept ?
Mr. Patriarca. It had been kept home, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliere?
Mr. Patriarca. What, sir?
Mr. Kennedy. Where?
Mr. Patriarca. It was kept in the cellar at home.
Mr. Kennedy. In a box ?
Mr. Patriarca. That was ironed out with the Internal Revenue at
the time when I had my trouble with the Internal Revenue. They
returned $60,000 to me, so I must have been pretty honest with me at
the time. I am trying to come out and say what is true. If you are
trying to mix me up, it is a different story.
Mr. Kennedy. I don't know anything about the Internal Revenue
Service. They returned $60,000 to you?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When did they return $60,000 ?
Mr. Patriarca. About 3 years ago.
Mr. Kennedy. Let me take you up from 1950 to 1954. $12,000 was
in cash ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16611
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir ; in casli. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You kept it at home ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Didn't you have a bank account at the time ?
Mr. Patriarca. She probably had. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't "keep the money in the bank account?
I am talking- about after she left the money to you?
Mr. Patriarca. The money left to me was left at home. After she
died, it was left to me.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did she leave ?
Mr. Patriarca. Approximately $80,000 or $90,000.
Mr. Kennedy. $90,000 ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir,
Mr. Kennedy. Where was that money left ?
Mr. Patriarca. It was kept down in the basement at home.
Mr. Kennedy. In cash ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. $80,000 in cash in the basement ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. "Weren't you afraid that somebody might come in,
some bad man, and steal it ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know. She probably wasn't afraid. I don't
know. It was her money, left there by her father. It wasn't mine.
It was her money.
Mr. Kennedy. But she left it to you in 1944 and you kept it in the
basement until 1950 ?
Mr. Patriarca. When she left it to me, I started investing it. I
invested into a trust fund — the first thing I did was invest it into a
trust fund — and invested it into a scholarship for my boy. When the
Internal Eevenue took it, they cashed in my trust fund and cashed
in my boy's scholarship money that I had paid up.
I didn't keep it no longer once I had my hands on it. I put it in
circulation, bought bonds with it, and I invested it.
Mr. Kennedy. "\"\Tien did you get your hands on it ?
Mr. Patrl\rca. Right after she died, in 1945.
Mr. Kennedy. So it wasn't kept in the basement from 1944 ?
Mr. Patriarca. No. I invested it. I invested — the most part of
it I invested.
Mr. Kennedy. Prior to that it had been kept in the basement?
Mr. Patriarca. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you invest in 1945 ?
Mr. Patriarca. In 1945, I think I invested about $60,000 with the
Mutual Life Insurance of New York, in an annuity fund, and I in-
vested with a $10,000 policy with my boy, an educational policy, a
paid-up educational policy, which would have come due when I was
55 years old, but they canceled it out when the Internal Revenue in-
vestigated me, and turned it into cash.
Mr. Kennedy. 'Wlien did you invest the other $20,000 ?
Mr. Patriarca. Which ot^her $20,000?
Mr. Kennedy. Well
Mr. Patriarca. Do you mean when I went into the cigarette vend-
ing business ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. Did you invest some of it then ?
16612 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, when I got it back from the Government.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1945, some $60,000 or $80,000 was left to you by
your mother in cash money that she kept in the basement ?
Mr. Patriarca. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You took $50,000 approximately and invested that
in this trust fund for your son in 1945 ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened to the other $30,000 that she left
you?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, I kept it around the house. I bought some
property with it. I bought property with it.
Mr. Kennedy. When did you buy the property ?
Mr. Patriarca. I bought the property in 1947 and 1948. I bought a
piece of property on Potters Avenue. I bought a piece of property
on — well, off North Main Street. I bought some property. That is
what happened.
When my mother died, I went into real estate, in a small scale. I
put mortgages out and I bought some property. I bought a piece of
property. I had a mortgage on a piece of propert}^ on Potters Ave-
nue, and I had another mortgage on another piece of property, and I
had to foreclose, and I bought the property. Then I sold the prop-
erty.
Mr. Kennedy. Between 1945 and 1948
Mr. Patriarca. I dickered in the real estate business from 1945 to
1948.
Mr. Kennedy. You invested all of the money, then ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't say all of it. I mean, on and off. In
the meantime, I was beating horses, too. I was going to the track.
Maybe I would get some information on a horse, and I would go and
bet. I mean, I was in that, besides investing my money.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you make playing the track
after 1945 ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't know. I used to file.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, approximately.
Mr. Patriarca. I would say $10,000 or $12,000 a year.
Mr. Kennedy. That is just the same track in Providence ?
Mr. Patriarca. Providence, yes. There were two tracks in Provi-
dence.
Mr. Kenn edy. You were playing both of them and making $10,000
or $12,000 each year?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes. Maybe $6,000, something like that. I don't
know. But I have the figures at home. If I brought mj'^ books, I
would have showed you.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you operate out of when you were betting
on the horses ?
Mr. Patriarca. Where did I operate out of ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. Did you go to the track yourself ?
Mr. Patriarca. I just went to the track.
Mr. Kennedy. What about Pope's Grill ?
Mr. Patriarca. Pope's Grill wasn't my grill. Nothing was wrong
in Pope's Grill.
Mr. Kennedy. Who owned that ?
Mr. Patriarca. My brother-in-law owned Pope's Grill. It wasn't
know as Pope's Grill in them days. It was known as Kayo's.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16613
Mr. Kennedy. Is that your brother-in-law, Joseph Milane?
Mr. Patriarca. That is right, sir. And there was something else
that should never have happened, through the newspapers. They
wrote a monster out of nothing. When they investigated, they found
nothing. It caused a young man to die from a broken heart.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they book horses there ?
Mr. Patriarca. They booked nothing there.
Mr. Kennedy. They didn't have runners operating out of there?
Mr. Patriarca. Nothing was there.
Mr. Kennedy. Now we go to 1948 and then were you in the coin
machine business ?
Mr. Patriarca. "^Vhen, sir ?
Mr. Kennedy. 1948.
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When did you first go into the coin machine busi-
ness?
Mr. Patriarca. Two years ago. Two and a half years ago.
Mr. Kennedy. Which would take us to what ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, 1957—1958. The beginning of 1957 or the
end of 1956.
Mr. Kennedy. Had any of your family been in the coin machine
business prior to that time ?
Mr. Patriarca. Not to my knowledge ; no.
Mr. Kennedy. Had your brother been ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, my brother, his is none of my affairs.
Mr. Kennedy. You might have talked to him about it. Did you
talk to him about it ?
Mr. Patriarca. Did I talk to him about it ?
Mr. Kennedy. No.
Mr. Patriarca. No, I don't think so.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a facfc that your brother was in the coin
machine business ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, it is something to talk about it. At that time
I was active down at Sherwood and he was up at Coin-0-Matic at
that time. But I don't know if he was in it or not. If he was, he is
down on record for being there. If he was in the business, he is down
on record.
Mr. Kennedy. What was Coin-0-Matic ?
Mr. Patriarca. Coin-0-Matic is the place that the national ciga-
rettes is incorporated with. National Cigarettes is one department
and Coin-0-Matic is another department. It is run out of the same
building. At that time, the National Cigarettes was not in with the
Coin-0-Matic; it was just the Coin-0-Matic. I think at that time
my brother mi^ht have had something to do with the Coin-O-Matic.
But I wouldn't know. You would have to ask him.
]\Ir. Kennedy. The Coin-O-Matic; is that company still in exist-
ence ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir; sure. It has been in existence for a long
time.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any interest in that ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And the National Cigarettes ?
Mr. Patriarca. I am interested in National Cigarettes.
16614 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. They operate out of the same office ?
Mr. Patriarca. They operate out of the same office.
Mr. Kennedy. And your brother used to be around Coin-0-Matic?
Mr. Patriarca. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that your brother received a $2,000 pay-
off from the operators in order to get out of the business ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't know that.
Mr. Kennedy. If you had a conversation with your brother along
those lines, you would know that ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, I would have to say I would take the fifth or
something, and I don't want to. I want to answer you gentlemen,
because I have been trying to get this off of my chest for 20 years.
Mr. Kennedy. I am going to try to help you.
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know what he does. I don't know what he
does. I have been a goat around Rhode Island for 20 years.
Mr. Kennedy. The question is whether he received a $2,000 pay-
off from the other operators for getting out, and when you came in
a year later, weren't they angry with you for coming into the business?
Mr. Patriarca. They were angry with me for coming into the busi-
ness; sure. They never brought it up to me. They came up and
tried to buy us up until 6 months ago. They couldn't buy us out for
all of the money in the world. We are not in the business to sell out.
I am in the business to stay in it.
Mr. Kennedy. "V^Hio came to you ?
Mr. Patriarca. Some of the big operators out there.
Mr. Kennedy. Like who ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, who ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know. I don't want
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to find out.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Patriarca. All right, the Rhode Tobacco Co. in Rhode Island,
out of Pawtucket.
Mr. Kennedy. Who were the big operators who tried to buy you
out?
Mr. Patriarca. Rhode Tobacco Co.
Mr. Kennedy. Who specifically from that company ?
Mr. Patriarca. His name is Ray Simpson. It was a legitimate
deal. There is nothing wrong about it. The man wanted to buy us
out.
Mr. Kennedy. Who else?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know. His partner. I don't know his
name.
Mr. Kennedy. Anybody else ?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that when you went into the business
originally, the operators were disturbed, because they had made at
least a $2,000 payment to your brother in order to keep you two out of
the business ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know. It would have no effect on me what-
ever deal they had witli my brother. They got no connection with me.
They had no dealings with me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16615
Mr. Kennedy. I understand.
Mr. Patoiarca. There is one thing about me, I have always been a
man of my word, and I will die that way, being a man of my word.
They had no dealings with me. I don't think there is one operator in
Providence that would say a bad word about me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you liave information that they had paid your
brother off in order to keep you out of the business ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't know, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any conversation along those lines?
Mr. Patriarca. No ; not that 1 know of.
Mr. Kennedy. Did anybody say anything along those lines to you?
Mr. Patriarca. No, no.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever liear this before?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Your answer is "No"; you never heard about this
before ?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Ivennedy. Did you ever hear about your brother being paid off
by the operators ?
Mr. Patriarca. No. I know my brother was in the business. I
know he had machines. He sold out. Who he sold out to or what
he got, I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. You originally said when I asked you if your brother
w^as in the business, you didn't know.
Mr. Patriarca. I said he was around Coin-O-Matic.
Mr. Kennedy. Now you said he was in the business. You said,
"I know he was in the business; he had machines around." AVliich is
it, did you know it or did you not ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, sure he was in the business. But you are
asking me if he got $2,000 like a bribe to pay off to go out of business.
That I don't know. I know he was in the business ; he had machines ;
he sold his machines because he had two daughters going to school at
the time. What happened over there was the other operators had
him investigated; they had this and that, and his wife started hol-
lering at him, "What do you want this business, your name in the
paper," and he sold out.
That is the story. Wliat he got for it, I don't know. It was no
bribe. I don't know who he sold to. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What kind of machines did he have ?
Mr. Patriarca. New machines. He started with new machines.
I don't know the name of them.
Mr. Kennedy. Cigarette machines ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Any other kinds of machines ?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Just cigarette machines?
Mr. Patriarca. Just cigarette machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did he have them ?
Mr. Patriarca. In Coin-O-Matic.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did he distribute them ?
Mr. Patriarca. I guess around Providence.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you help him at all ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
16616 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You never did any work for him ?
Mr. Patriarca. I never helped him and he never helped me.
Mr. Kennedy. When you went into business, did some of the oper-
ators come to see you about not coming into business ?
Mr. Patriarca. Come to see me ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Patriarca. No. The talk was around that they wouldn't like
to see me in the business because I am supposed to be a popular fellow
around there.
Mr. Kennedy. You are supposed to be what ?
Mr. Patriarca. A popular fellow ; I knew a lot of people,
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat did they say to you ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, not direct. After I was in the business
awhile they asked me if I wanted to be partners with them, and
this and that. In the business itself I never had 2 cents' worth of
business in that business that I ran myself. I don't know nothing
about the business. Never went out and got one location myself. I
am a partner in a place; I am not denying it. I got 50 percent of
my money out there. I never went out and solicited one customer.
My partner, Phil Carrozzi, takes care of all of that.
I don't know. If I had to sit down here and name more than five
locations that got out of 200, 1 couldn't tell you.
Mr. Kennedy. How many locations do you have ?
Mr. Patriarca. About 200.
Mr. Kennedy. Where are they ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't be able to tell you all but five. But they
are all in the area of Providence.
Mr. Kennedy. Any other States ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When you first went into business, did the other
operators in the Providence area come to you and say, "We bought
your brother out. You are supposed to stay out." Did they say
anything along those lines ?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. That they had bought him out?
Mr, Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Nothing at all ?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. You are certain of that?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go in originally with your Mr. Carrozzi?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did he put up ?
Mr. Patriarca. I think we put up $9,000 apiece to start with.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that by check or cash ?
Mr. Patriarca. Cash. That was when I got the money back from
the Government, on my tax that time.
Mr. Kennedy. How many employees does National Cigarette
Vending Co, have?
Mr, Patriarca. We have two.
Mr. Kennedy. Are they members of a union?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir. There is no union down there.
Mr. Kennedy. Was there ever an approach made by any union?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16617
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Have any of your locations ever been picketed?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you lost any of your locations to competitors?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir. Once in a while you do. You get someone,
probably. But it is not the other people's fault neither. They want
to borrow money off of you and you don't give them money so you
lose the location.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever loaned any of these people money?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You neve'' have ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You say you went into business with Mr. Carrozzi ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennfj)y. Plad he been in the business before ?
Mr. Patriarca. Not in the cigarette vending business before, but
he has been in the pinball and music boxes. He has been in there. He
is one of the oldest ones in Rhode Island. I would say he has been in
that business over 20 years.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did he put up in this venture ?
Mr. Patriarca. With the cigarette, with National ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Patriarca. He put up as much as I did, $9,000.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that by check or cash ?
Mr. Patriarca. His must have been check ; by check, I guess. But I
wouldn't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have an association there ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Does he still have an interest in pinballs ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And in jukeboxes?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever made any loans to his company ?
Mr. Patriarca. Have I made any loans to his company ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever given him or his companies any money
directly or indirectly ?
Mr. Patriarca. Have I ? No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Have any of your companies that you have an inter-
est in ever made a loan directly or indirectly or given anything of
value to Mr. Carrozzi or his company ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy, Have you had any financial dealings directly or in-
directly with Mr. Carrozzi or his companies ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir, with the exception of the cigarette machine
business. That is the only business I have with Mr. Carrozzi.
Mr. Kennedy. He formed tlie association, did he, for the music?
Mr, Patriarca. I wouldn't know that.
Mr, Kennedy, You don't know anything about that ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't know anything about that, I wouldn't
know nothing about that.
16618 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. We will not be able to conclude with this witness
before noon, so we will take a recess until 2 o'clock. The witness will
return at 2 o'clock.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess : Senators
McClellan and Church.)
(Whereupon, at 12 :05 p.m., the select committee recessed, to recon-
vene at 2 p.m. the same day. )
AFTERNOON SESSION
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
(Members of the select committee present at time of reconvening:
Senators McClellan and Church.)
TESTIMONY OF RAYMOND PATRIAECA, ACCOMPANIED BY COTJN-
SEL, CHARLES A. CURRAN AND SAUL FRIEDMAN— Resumed
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Patriarca, I would like to go back for a moment
on the $80,000 that was in the basement of the home. Where had your
mother gotten that money from ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, it was there, her life savings and my father's,
and his earnings, and my father has been in business all of his life
previous to the time he died.
Mr. Kennedy. When did he die ?
Mr. Patriarca. He died in 1925.
Mr. Kennedy. What business was your mother in ?
Mr. Patriarca. My mother was in the real estate business and my
father was in the saloon business before prohibition, and he was in
the real estate business and he was in the real estate business when
he died.
Mr. Kennedy. Where had the $80,000 come from ?
Mr. Patriarca. An accumulation of money.
Mr. Kennedy. It had always been kept in the basement during
that time?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir. It hadn't all been kept in the basement at
that time, but it was brought and put in the basement over a period
of time due to the fact that at one time I was in some trouble and
that money was taken out to be put up for bail, and it was never put
back into the bank and it was in a box and put down in the cellar,
which you are going to come to in my record and so I might as well
tell you now it was put up as bail money, which the Internal Revenue
checked on and found it was true.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the situation on that? You say the
Internal Revenue Department returned $60,000 to you.
Mr. Patriarca. Around $60,000. They cashed in $95,000 of real
estate and turned back and gave me a check back of $65,000, or
$60,000.
Mr. Kennedy. They gave you a check for that?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you do with that money — deposit it in a
bank?
Mr. Patriarca. No. I cashed it and gave my wife some and she
deposited it, and some I invested. I invested in the Sherwood Manu-
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16619
facturing Co., and I invested it into the cigarette business, and some
I invested in an apartment house that I remodeled.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you keep any of that cash ?
Mr. Patriarca. I got some in the safe deposit box.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money do you have in the safe deposit
box?
Mr. Patriarca. It is under my wife's name, and I don't know, than
I w^ould say maybe
Mr. Kennedy. According to the records that we checked, your
mother's name is Mary Jane Patriarca.
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And she left no will ; is that right?
Mr. Patriarca. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the estate that she filed or was filed in her name
amounted to $6,993 ?
Mv. Patriarca. Oh, no ; she left more than that in real estate alone.
Mr. Kennedy. And this was filed by an attorney, who listed the
Industrial Savings Bank and the Metropolitan Life Insurance, a total
of $6,993.65.
Mr. Patriarca. Well, that is probably from the insurance and stuff
like that, but she left property, and she left a home which we lived in
and it is a $30,000 home.
Mr. Kennedy. You were the administrator, were you not?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what the situation was, then, and did
you file a larger estate?
Mr. Patriarca. What is that?
Mr. Kennedy. How much was the estate worth that you filed for,
that you filed for your mother ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know. A lawyer by the name of Murphy
was the fellow who filed it at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. How^ much was it worth?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know, and I wouldn't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, the probate was accepted and filed, and closed
April 22, 1957, and it shows $6,993.65.
Mr. Curran. May I have a word, Mr. Chairman ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have the answer?
Mr. Patriarca. The probate inventory doesn't include real estate.
Mr. Curran. In Rhode Island under the law, you don't include real
estate in the probate inventory.
Mr. Kennedy. Don't they include cash ?
Mr. Patriarca. The cash w as given as a gift which was left to me
before my mother died, and she made it known to my sisters and
brothers that that was my money.
Mr. Kennedy. So this was not left to you at your mother's death?
Mr. Patriarca. No, it was left before she died.
Mr. Kennedy. She left you $80,000 in cash before she died?
Mr. Patriarca. That is right, and the rest of the stuff was left
among us five children.
Mr. Kennedy. Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought this morning
that you said that your mother left it to you when she died ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, it was left while I was away, and this is while
I was away. She left word with my sisters and brothers that if any-
16620 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
thing should happen to her while I was away, whatever money she
had was all left to me, and the property was to be divided among the
five of us, and whatever money was in the bank was to be divided and
the rest was to be left to me. We had that out with the Internal
Revenue, too.
Mr. Kennedy. Before she died she left it to you ?
Mrs. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. She died and why didn't she leave it in her estate?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know what she did. She left it to me, that
is all I know, and in case she died while I was away, and my sisters and
brothers knew it was my money.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Frank laconi ?
Mr. Patriarca. I knew Frank laconi.
Mr. ICennedy. How long?
Mr. Patriarca. I knew him for a long time previously, before he
died.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you in any business with him ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Any financial business with him?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you run any gambling establishments in Wor-
cester, Mass.
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any interest of any kind there?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Frank Costello ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You never met him?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Joe Stretch?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever talk to him ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Larry Noele ?
Mr. Patriarca. Larry Noele I know ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How do you know him ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, through the White City Park in Worcester.
Mr. Kennedy. Does he have an interest in that ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know, sir, but I know his son is down there.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you had any business dealings with him ?
Mr, Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Albert Anastasia ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Bugsey Morelli ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you know him ?
Mr. Patriarca. Maybe 40 years, or 45 years, all of my life. He
comes from my neighborhood.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever have any financial dealings with him?
Mr, Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr, Kennedy. Where is he now ?
Mr. Patriarca. He is in Providence.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16621
Mr. Kennedy. He has not gone down to New York, operating in
New York ?
Mr. Patriarca. Not that I know of, sir, and I don't know. I have
stayed in my own business and I don't know what they do.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know John Nazarin ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How long have you known him ?
Mr. Patriarca. Four or five years probably.
Mr. Kennedy. Does he work for you ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliere is he now ?
Mr. Patriarca. In Providence, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Has he any contacts in Brooklyn, N. Y. ?
Mr. Patriarca. Not that I know of.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he working for you in connection with the
jukebox business at all ?
Mr. Patriarca. He never worked for me or he never worked with
Mr. Carrozzi.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever go around to put pressure on the pro-
prietors to use machines ?
Mr. Patriarca. No pressure was ever put on no business person in
Providence with regard to the cigarette machines or pinballs or any-
thing.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know if he ever went around to any of the
location owners and suggested they use your machines?
Mr. Patriarca. He had no reason to.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever ?
Mr. Patriarca. I wouldn't know that, and he had no reason to, and
if he did he was doing it on his own and he might be crazy if he did,
but he had no authority to do it.
Mr. Kennedy. What is his business ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Kennedy*. You have no idea ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You have known him for 5 years ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He has never worked for you ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You never gave him any money ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you loan him any money ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Tiger Poletti ?
Mr. Patriarca. I know of him.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know him when he was alive ?
Mr. Patriarca. I know of him, and his name used to be in the paper
a lot and I didn't know him to speak to and I just knew him.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what connection John Nazarin had
with his killing ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Curran. May I have a word, please, for the record ?
John Nazarin was found not guilty of murder in the Superior Court
of Providence County.
36751 — 59 — pt. 46 11
16622 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. One of the chief witnesses, for the record, also, was
strangled to death 3 weeks after Poletti was murdered.
Mr. CuRRAN. Nobody was ever indicted on it and I was one of the
cocounsel representing John Nazarin.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to go into the coin operating
machine business ?
Mr. Patriarca. Well, as I said, Mr. Carrozzi asked me If I wanted
to invest some money, when he heard I had some money returned,
and he asked me if I wanted to invest some money in a slow-return
business, and I told him yes, and that is how we got started.
He had been running the business from the first day we started
up until now, and I am not active in the business.
Mr. Kennedy. You had some difficulties with the law prior to that ?
Mr. Patriarca. What law, sir ?
Mr. Kennedy. With the Government.
Mr. Patriarca. Income tax ; that is all.
Mr. Kennedy. You have four convictions ; have you ?
Mr. Patriarca. Read them. No ; one conviction with the Govern-
ment.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Breaking and entering.
r ' Mr. Patriarca. That is not the Government, sir.
, Mr. Kennedy. In 1928.
Mr. Patriarca. That is not the Government, 1928. I think that
was the Government, for driving liquor or something.
Mr. Kennedy. Breaking and entering and larceny, 2 years.
Mr. Patriarca. That would be the State.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, the State government, and in 1930, conspiracy
to violate the White Slavery Act.
Mr. Patriarca. There is a story to that, but it wasn't true.
Mr. Kennedy. 1938, breaking and entering, attempt to commit
larceny, and 3 to 5 years in Charlestown, Mass.
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You served 84 days of that.
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you got a pardon, did you, from the Governor ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And it was granted on the application of the
Governor's counsel , Daniel Cokely .
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he was impeached.
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know whether he was impeached.
Mr. Kennedy. He was investigated ; did you know that ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You don't know anything about that ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't follow it at all?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
" Mr. Kennedy. You didn't know he was impeached?
Mr. Patriarca. I was away at the time.
Mr. Kennedy. You got out, didn't 3^011 ?
Mr. Patriarca. I went back. They reopened the case and I went
back. So I got nothing but a lot of publicity over it.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Daniel Cokely ?
11- ■
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16623
Mr. Patrlxrca. Well, I knew of him. ^V}\en he came up to see me
in prison and listened to my story, and he knew I was innocent of the
thing and he took the case.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1941, robbery and assault with intent to commit
robbery.
Mr. Patriarca. "^^Hien is that ?
Mr. Kennedy. 1941,
Mr. Patriarca. I never got arrested in 1941 for no robbery, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that when you were put back in ?
;Mr. Patriarca. My last arrest was 1938, and I haven't been in
trouble since then, not even for driving without a license or speeding
or nothing.
Mr. Kennedy. So it is three coni-ictions, 1928, 1930, and 1938.
Mr. Patriarca. 1938 was the last.
Mr. Kennp^dy. And you were paroled on May 11, 1944; is that
right?
Mr. Patrlvrca. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go back into prison in November of 1941 ?
]VIi\ Patriarca. That is right, for something tliat happened in 1938,
that went with the case that I got the pardon on. It was one of the
cases put on file and due to the fact that the newspapers made a big
stink out of it they reopened the case and they sent me back on it.
Mr. Kennedy. Why were you involved in all of this difficulty and
trouble, breaking and entering and larceny, on two occasions, if your
mother had $80,000 in the basement?
Mr. Patriarca. Why do a lot of young fellows do a lot of things,
when tliey haven't a father ?
Mr. Curran. May I have a minute, please?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Kennedy. Do you laio w Mr. Frank Cucchiara ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He is from Boston ?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir. .-
Mr. Kennedy. He attended the meeting at Apalachin ?
Mr. Patriarca. I don't know about that.
IMr. Kennedy. Have you been in touch with him ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
IMr. Kennedy. Did you discuss what went on in Apalachin with
him ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir ; and I had no reason to.
Mr. Kennedy. What business dealings do you have with him ?
Mr. Patriarca. None at all, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Just a friend of yours ?
IVIr. Patriarca. Well, I wouldn't say he is a friend, and I know
him, and he is in business and he has a cheese place out there, a whole-
sale cheese, olive oil, and Italian stuff, and I used to go to Boston once
in a while and I would buy some cheese there, and he carries very good
imported stuff from Italy, and I used to do a little shopping there,
and that is how I know him and I don't have no business deals or
friendship deals or anything like that.
(Members of the select committee present at this point in the pro-
ceedings : Senators McClellan and Church.)
Mr. Kennedy. Have you had any financial dealings of any kind ?
16624 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. I^JENNEDY. What about Carlo Gambino ?
Mr, Patriarca. Don't know him, sir.
Mr. Kjjnnedy. Do you know the SGS Associates, labor relations
consultants?
Mr. Patriarca. Who?
Mr. Kennedy. SGS. Do you know them ?
Mr. Patriarca. Never heard of them.
Mr. Kennedy. What about the Falcones of Utica ? Have you ever
heard of them ?
Mr. Patriarca. Never heard of them. The only Falcones I heard
of is Providence, an undertaker.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know a Mr. White?
Mr. Patriarca. Yes, sir, 30 or 40 years.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you ever heard of the organizers that Mr.
White hired?
Mr. Patriarca. I never had anything to do with them. I know
him a long time before he was with the union.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you had financial connection with them?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you suggested to him anyone to be taken into
the union ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Ki:nnedy. Have you suggested anyone to him that should be
hired by the union ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Have you had anything to do with the Coro Co. of
Providence, R.I. ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Do you know about them being organized by the
Jewelry Workers Union ?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you had any conferences in connection with
that?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever talk to Joe Stretch in connection with
that?
Mr. Patriarca. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Hymie Powell of the Jewelry Work-
ers Union?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever talk to him ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir,
Mr. IvENNEDY. Do you know Marty Kornreich ?
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Of the Hardware Workers Union.
Mr. Patriarca. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any questions?
Senator Church. No questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
Stand aside.
Call the next witness.
EVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16625
Mr. IvENNEDY. Mr. Charles Lichtman, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, we have gone into people with underworld connec-
tions and activities, people with criminal records throughout tlie coun-
try in connection with this matter. We went into New Jersey, Penn-
sylvania, Colorado, and Illinois. There are other active underworld
figures who are in this business throughout the United States — for in-
stance, Mr. Colacurcio in Seattle, as well as others.
But we hit that as a general situation yesterday and this morning.
Now we expect to go into specific areas and show what the relationship
between the union operation and the association operation is and the
infiltration in particular cities of gangsters and hoodlums into this
business.
We are going into New York.
The first witness in connection with that is Mr. Charles Lichtman.
The Chairman. Be sworn, Mr. Lichtman.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Lichtman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES LICHTMAN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Lichtman. Charles Lichtman, 37 Lincoln Park, Newark, N.J.
Ocupation : Secretary of the union.
The Chairman. Secretai'y of the union ?
Mr. Lichtman. Local 254, Laundry Employees Union.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
You waive counsel, do you ?
Mr. Lichtman. Yes.
The Chairman. All right, proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Before questioning this witness, Mr. Chairman, we
have a mimeographed sheet which indicates the names of individuals
who will be involved in this portion, and whose identification will be
coming up.
I think it would be helpful if we place it into the record or if we
make it an exhibit.
The Chairman. Do you have extra copies of it?
Mr, Kennedy. Yes.
The Chairman. Who prepared this ?
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. May.
The Chairman. Mr. May, have you been previously sworn ?
Mr. May. No.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. May. I do.
TESTIMONY OF WALTER R. MAY
The Chairman. Please state your name, your present employment.
Mr. May. Walter R. May, assistant counsel to this committee.
16626 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. I hand you here a mimeographed document and
ask you to examine it and state what it is.
[A document was handed to the witness.]
Mr. May. This document is an identification of individuals of in-
terest in the New York phase of these hearings.
The Chairman, Would you speak louder, please.
Mr. May. It is an identification of individuals associated with the
New York phase of this hearing, together with New York imions and
associations.
The Chairman. Did you compile this list, or was it compiled under
your supervision ?
Mr. May. Under my supervision, Senator.
The Chairman. I understand, Mr. Counsel, these names will be
identified and these parties will be referred to, possibly, in the course
of further testimony ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is correct.
The Chairman. This list, for reference, may be made exhibit No. 9.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 9" for reference
and may be found in the files of the Select Committee.)
The Chairman. Exhibit No. 9 will be for reference only. The tes-
timony will identify the parties.
Would you proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES LICHTMAN— Resumed
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Lichtman, you came originally from east
Harlem, N.Y.?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you grew up with Frank Costello and Cheech
Livorsi and people such as that ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever get particularly friendly with Mr.
Livorsi, for instance?
Mr. Lichtman. No.
Mr. Kennedy. You went on an outing with him at one time ?
Mr. Lichtman. Yes ; at one time.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat occurred at that time?
Mr. Lichtman. Well, we went up into the country at one time. He
invited me to some farm up in upstate New York, and we went for a
sort of a dinner.
After the dinner, they went out into the backyard and they sat up
some cans in the backyard and they pulled out some revolvers and they
started shooting at the cans. I stood there watching them. So fi-
nally one of the boys said, "Why don't you take a chance and see what
you can do."
I said, "Well, I never handled a revolver in my life before, so I will
take a chance."
But to their amazement I shot the cans off the same as they did.
Mr. Kennedy. Is Mr. Livorsi a major underworld figure?
Mr. Lichtman. I presume so.
Mr. Kennedy. About 1930 you entered into the business as a jobber
of game machines in New York City ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is rifrht.
IMPROPER ACTIVmES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16627
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, while you were acting as a jobber, you
sold a machine to a bar owner to replace a machine that was owned
by Frank Breheney ?
Mr, LicHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you hear anything further on that ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, the first thing I heard of that is that they
had kidnapped the mechanic I had employed with me at the time, and
they kept him in an apartment.
Mr. Kennedy. They kidnapped your mechanic ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Breheney had been a close associate of Dutch
Schultz ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The mechanic handling the equipment for you was
kidnaped ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right. They asked him who put the ma-
chine in this particular bar. He wouldn't tell them at first, but later
on he told them it was a party by the name of Lichtman. So they
came down and saw me and I had found out since they had thrown the
bar over and Breheney came down to me and I had to buy the machine
back from the customer.
Mr. Kennedy. Take your machine out ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Take the machine out, and he could put his machine
back in the location.
Mr. Ivennedy. Ultimately you did that ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1938 you entered the labor field ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You obtained the signatures of 15 or 20 employees in
the launderette field ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kj:nnedy. You obtained a charter from local 254 of the Retail
and Wholesale Department Store Employees International Union?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Ivennedy. About 1940 you expanded into the coin machine
business ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you called this the United Coin Machine
Workers Union Local 254 ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you assumed jurisdiction in the game field ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. In the game, yes, automatic bowling games, and
soon.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, or shortly thereafter, were you con-
tacted by the employer organization called AAMON Y ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. It is the Associated Amusement Machine Operators
of New York.
Mr. Kennedy. A-A-M-0-N-Y?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. It is loiown as AAMONY ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The heads of the association met with you at that
time ?
16628 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Ltchtmax. Yes. Tliey met with me at that time.
Mr. Kexxedt. "Wliat did you discuss ?
Mr. LiCHTMAx. "Well, we discussed the contract for the various
employees of the bowling game business at that time, and we had
signed a i2-year contract to cover the employees representing the
operators in the business at the time.
Mr. Kexxedy. What was their interest at that time to sign such a
contract ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. From what I gathered, at that time the association
was interested in signing a collective bargaining agreement. I had
subsequently found out that the motive of the collective bargaining
agreement was to protect the locations of the various operators that
were members of the association.
JSIr. Kexxedt. How would the}' protect tliem? What was the
method they were going to use ?
Mr. LiCHTMAx. Well, when a location of a bowling game was being
jumped, that they would request the union to send a picket out to
picket the location where one of its members lost its location.
Mr. Kexxedt. Then you would send the picket out ?
Mr. LicHTMAX. We would send the picket out.
Mr. Kexxedt. "^liere would you get the picket ?
Mr. LicHTMAx. From other locals of the United Eetail and Whole-
sale Department Store Union.
Mr. Kexxedt. You would hire a picket ?
^Ir. Ltchtmax. Yes.
jSIr. Kexxedt. For a dollar an hour ?
Mr. LiciiTMAX. A dollar an hour ?
Mr. Kexxedt. And you would send out when the association called
up and needed what they called servicing ?
Mr. Ltchtmax. That is right.
Mr. Kexxftit. If one of their looatioTis had been jumped and they
wanted to get a picket line in fi'ont of this location, you would provide
the picket )
Mr. Ltchtmax. That is right ?
The Chatrmax. That was to hold the owner of the business in line?
Mr. Ltchtmax. Yes.
The Chatrmax. To compel hi)iT to use your machines?
Mr. Ltchtmax. In other words, where the member of the association
lost the location, it was taken away by a party who was a noiTmember
of the association, the association would request that the uTiion place
a picket on that location to get the location back for its member.
The Chatrmax. In other words, yoiT put up a picket line aiTd that
interfered with the operators' business?
Mr. Ltchtmax. Tliat is right.
The Chatrmax. In other words, he was confronted with the picket
liiTe if he didiT't retract and go back to the old machines, and the old
crowd, the old association ^
Mr. Ltchtmax. That is right.
The CiiAiRMAX. Is that the purpose of having the union ?
Mr. Ltchtmax. Well, that was the association's purpose of contact-
ing and signiiTg up with the union, to get tlie locations back for its
members.
The Chatrmax^. "\ATiat purpose did the union serve for its members?
Wliat benefit did the members of the union get out of it ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16629
Mr. LiCHTMAN. "Well, we or<r:inized the mechanics and the collectoi'S
in the business until we found that the primary purpose of the associa-
tion was to get back these locations. Mau}^ times we refused to place
pickets on locations l^ecause it was not a labor j)roblem.
Because of that, the union notified its employers and some of the
members, and nuiny of the members we had, not to pay us any more
dues.
Mr. Kennedy. That is quite a few years ahead.
Mr. LiciiTiMAN. That is quite a few years, yes.
The Chairman. As I understand the eft'ect of your testimony, it is
that the union was simply being used.
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I'^sed for the purpose of securing locations.
The Chairman. For the purpose of serving the owners of these
boxes and machines?
Mr. LicHT^iAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. When you originally signed the agreement, how
manv people came into the union, when vou originally signed with
AAMONY?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. About oO or 60.
Mr. Kennedy. How many of these were self-employed?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. About 50 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. And the rest had some employees?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Altogether, what, about 100 people came in?
]Mr. LiCHTMAN. About.
Mr. Kennedy. You got about 100?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The employer would pay the dues? The ones that
had employees would pay the dues?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. In most cases the employees would pay the dues on
what they called sticker money. In other words, every machine that
these operatoi-s operated, they had paid an average of 50 cents per
machine per location. And besides that, $2.50 a month union dues
for the employee.
Mr. Kennedy. T^Hiat was the purpose of the sticker fee?
Mr. LiCHTMAN, The purpose of the sticker was to see that the union
had sufficient money which to use in going out picketing locations that
members of the association had lost.
Mr. Kennedy. So this was just a way of financing the union so that
the union could provide services: is that right?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Many of the people didn't know they were in the
union, the employees?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Because the employers were paying their dues, the
employee were paying the sticker, so there was no need, really, to
consult with the employee?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wjis it also arranged that you would provide a bet-
ter contract for the people who were in the association than those who
were outside the association?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is rijrht.
16630 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. The wages that had to be paid by members of the
association were lower than those which had to be paid by people who
were outside the association ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You would allow people who were not in the asso-
ciation to come into your union ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was one of the major points that ultimately
brought about your end of relations with the association?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. As far as the signature cards of the employees, they
were left with the employers ; is that right ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The employer either filled them in or got the em-
ployees to sign ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Either one ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And then they returned them to you ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Local 254 operations with AAMONY were inter-
rupted by the war ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So the relationship ended. Then the games were
outlawed in New York and it was interrupted in that time?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. It came back into existence in the same way in 1948 ;
is that right ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You entered into a new contract in 1948 with
AAMONY?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the same purpose that you have described
earlier as to the purpose of the association-union relationship existed
as of that time also ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. At this time you had people who were not in the
association who were members of the union. Did you start getting
complaints from the heads of the association ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. We did.
Mr. Kennedy. Had you been providing the same kind of service
you described, service in providing the pickets ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you had been giving the same serA^ce to em-
ployers not members of the association ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a conversation with the association?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. The association very much objected to the union
giving service to those who were not members of the association. We
continued to give service to everybody who were members of the
union, whether they were in the association or not.
When the association found out we would not play ball with them
and give service to their association exclusively, they decided to drop
the union entirely and went out shopping for other unions, despite
the fact that we had a 2-year contract.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16631
Mr. Kennedy. Had you started also at this time to consult with the
employees ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes ; we consulted the employees.
Mr. Kennedy. What did they say ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. They seemed to be very indifferent. They all
seemed to be in positions of being afraid of their employers?
Mr. Kennedy. Did the employers say anything to you about con-
sulting with the employees?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. They very much objected to us having anything to
do with the employees. They wanted all of their business to be done
direct
Mr. Kennedy. These were people that were members of your
union ?
jNIr. LiCHTMAN. That is right. They wanted all of their business
to be transacted through the association.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they say something to you about that, something
that "You work for us" ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes. "You work for us or we will drop you en-
tirely. We cannot use a union that will not give service exclusively
for members of the association."
Senator Church. The service consisted of sending out a picket
when the association notified you to a place that was no longer doing
business with the association ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Correct,
Senator Church. Did you ever refuse to send out pickets? What
other service did you render ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, they never wanted us to have anything to do
with regard to wages, working conditions, or hours.
Senator Church. In other words, the legitimate services that one
would think a union
Mr. LiCHTMAN. They objected to that.
Senator Church. They objected to that ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Senator Church. As a result, you didn't get into that very much?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. As a result of the various matters that came up
before, when they used to ask us to picket certain parties, we refused
to picket them, so we were then told we were of no more use to the
association.
Senator Church. "Where and why did you draw the line? Did
they call upon you to picket certain operators or certain locations that
actually had been organized, although they were outside of the asso-
ciation ? Is that where the difficulty came ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. You see, in the coin machine business, the operators
get together and they form an association. This association is formed
of membei's who were operating machines in various sections of the
cit3^ These operators want protection so that they don't lose these
locations. That is, when another operator who is not a member of
the association takes the location, that they will use the union to
secure the location back for the operator who was a member of the
association.
Senator Church. Through the device of picketing ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Senator Church. In other words, these associations are formed just
to divide up the spoils, so to speak, to divide up the city ?
16632 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. LicHTMAN. To protect their members only.
Senator Church. Among the members ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. That is right. Outsiders are excluded unless they
join the association. In fact, in a collective bargaining agreement,
they stated in one of the clauses that if we take anybody in we must
ask them to join the association. That is one of the very things we
refused to do, and that is the reason they dropped our union and went
out shopping for other unions.
Mr. Kennedy. When you placed these picket lines and gave this
servicing, you would tell the people, the location owner or whoever
owned the machine or whoever might come by, you told them to con-
tact the association ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. Well, that is the way our sign read, that the machine
in this location was not being serviced by a member of our union.
Mr. I{j:nnedy. But I am talking
Mr. LicHTMAN. In order to straighten the thing out they would have
to go to the association, either join the association, or give the location
back to the operator who originally was there.
Mr. Kennedy. It wouldn't be a question of straightening it out with
the union, but it would be a question of straightening it out with the
association ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you say that the association became disap-
pointed in you. Did the manager of the association ever approach
you about making some financial arrangements ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, the manager of the association is — his name is
Joe Hirsch ; he came to me and asked me to put him on the payroll for
$50 a week and if I didn't put him on the payroll, he would make
trouble for the union. I said, "I am giving nobody $50 a week and I
don't care what you do."
Mr. Kennedy. It was shortly afterward
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Shortly afterward they went around shopping for
other unions.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was running the association at that time ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. An attorney by the name of Theodore Blatt and
Joseph Hirsch.
Mr. Kennedy. B-1-a-t-t?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you approached at that time by James Cag-
giano?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes, I was approached by Mr. Caggiano, who of-
fered to give me $2,000 to turn the contract over to him.
Mr. Kennedy. He was the president of local 465 of the lUE?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He sought to buy the membership from you?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. The contract.
Mr. Kennedy. For $2,000?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You decided you would not sell it to him ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right. But subsequently, Mr. Theodore
Blatt and Joe Hirsch met me in a restaurant on 10th Avenue in New
York City and convinced me that there is no use in me holding the
contract because they have already told all members of the association
IMPROPER ACTWITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16633
and the members that tliey knew that were members of our union not to
pay any more money into the union. Our receipts went from, I w^ould
say, supposing $600 or $700 a month, down to nothing.
I sa^v no use in holding the union, and Mr. Bhitt had told me at
that time that he had contacted Mr. Horowitz, of local 222.
Mr. Kennedy. H-o-r-o-w-i-t-z, of local 222?
Mr. LiCHi^MAN. Yes. And that Mr. Horowitz would buy the con-
tract from local 254 for the sum of $2,000.
Mr. Kennedy. That is of the IJWU?
Mr. LicHTMAN. International Jewelry Workers Union; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He was president of local 222, Mr. Horowitz ?
Mr. Lichtman. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And they told you of the approach that Mr. Horo-
witz made about buying the contract?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you make arrangements to sell it ?
Mr. Lichtman. They made arrangements for me to meet Mr. Horo-
witz. I met him in Brooklyn and he was interested in getting the con-
tract I had with the Associated Association of Music Operators. See-
ing that there was no money coming in, that they had deserted us, and
that they were going to fight us all the way through, I decided to sell
it — the contract,
Mr. Kennedy. How much did you sell it for?
Mr. Lichtman. Local 254 received $2,000.
Mr. Kennedy. And the membership was transferred over?
Mr. Lichtman. The contract was transferred over to them, and
then the membership was notified that the contract with local 254 was
transferred to local 222.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know if the membership was ever notified
about that ?
Mr. Lichtman. That I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't notify them yourself ?
Mr. Lichtman. We didn't have anything more to do. We were
dropped before that. In fact, they told the members already prior to
that time not to pay any more money, so we were out of contact with
our members at that time in the coin machine business.
Mr. Kennedy. I understand. But through this transaction of
$2,000, the membership of your union was sold to local 222 ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
The Chairman. I hand you what purports to be a photostatic copy
of a check dated January 11, 1952, in the amount of $2,000. I am
unable to identify the payee, but maybe you can. I will ask you if you
will examine the check and see if you can identify it.
(The document was handed to the witnesss.)
Mr. Lichtman. Yes ; that is the check that was given to the United
Coin Machine Union for $2,000.
The Chairman. That check may be made exhibit No. 10.
(Check referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 10" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 16933.)
The Chairman. What was that check actually given for ?
Mr. Lichtman. That check was actually given for turning over the
contract that the Associated Music Machine Operators Association
had with the United Coin Machine Employees Union.
16634 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
The Chaieman. No. 254?
Mr. LicHTMAN. In other words, local 254 was out of the picture
after that.
The Chairman. Local 254 had a contract with the association ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. That is right.
The Chairman. The association, and its members, and some of its
employees, paid dues ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. Well, they did not pay at the time that this check
was made.
The Chairman. Well, they had stopped paying, but previously you
had the contract ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
The Chairman. And they were paying dues ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
The Chairman. And that was the source of the income, the life-
blood of local 254 ?
Mr. Lichtman. It stopped.
The Chairman. When they stopped paying, then they came to you
and bought your contract ?
INIr. Lichtman. That is right.
The Chairman. That was for $2,000 ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
The Chairman, \\aiat became of the $2,000 ?
Mr. Lichtman. It went into the treasury of the United Coin Ma-
chine Operators Union.
The Chairman. What happened to the treasury ?
Mr. Lichtman. The treasury is still there.
The Chairman. Do you still have the money there ?
Mr. Lichtman. Still a good part of it.
The Chairman. You still have the 254 union ?
Mr. Lichtman. Yes. It is in the launderette field. We were in
the launderette field before, but we went into the coin macliine field
as another field, and after we lost the coin machines, we still had the
laundry employees.
The Chairman. So this actually went into the treasury and it went
on in the union funds ?
Mr. Lichtman. That is right.
Senator Church. This is like one business selling a franchise to
another.
Mr. Lichtman. That is right, and which is pennissible. In fact,
when we sold our contract, our contract tlien became null and void be-
cause local 222, I presume, secured a new contract, or local 222, from
what I understand, sold the contract to
The Chairman. This was just a way of getting you folks out of the
picture and having local 222 take over and start afresh.
Mr. Lichtman. Tliat is right.
The Chairman. The contract, tlien, just became a chattel that you
could sell, like a mortgage, a note, or something else.
Mr. Lichtman. It always is in unions.
The Chairman. Sir?
Mr. Lichtman. A contract always is transferrable in unions, from
one local to another.
The Chairman. Do the members have anything to say about it?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16635
Mr. LiciiTMAX. Yes, we bring:: it up to a membership vote, but I
couldn't call these members together because they stopped paying dues
and tliey just automatically went out of the picture. We called the
Launderette Union and explained it to them.
The Chairman. At the time of selling the contract, you had no
members ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. Yes, we had lamidry workers in the union.
The Chairman. But not the coin machines ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Not the coin machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Going back to James Caggiano, whom we mentioned
earlier, he had been hired as an organizer by you for local 254 some
time in 1947 or 1948 ; is that right?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That wfis before he set up his own union?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What was there in his background that made him
attractive to you or made you want to hire him ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN, Well, I knew that he was employed by Meyer
Lansky's son as a chauffeur, and I thought that he could, at the time
he made the contract with the association, be able to hold up our rules
and regulations.
Mr. Kennedy. Through his connections ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He bragged about the fact that he had been con-
nected with some of the big racketeers in the New York area ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. In fact, on one occasion, did you hear Mr. Lansky
reprimand him for using his name so much ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes.
Mr. KJENNEDY. That was in the M.B. Distributing Co., which was
owned
Mr. LiCHTMAN. It is owned by Meyer Lansky. He told him he
wasn't supposed to be connected with any unions or use his name in
connection with any unions.
Mr. Kennedy. Meyer Lansky did?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. M.B. Distributors was being run at that time by
Meyer Lansky ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliile Caggiano was working for local 254, he had
picketed certain jukebox locations?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Previously, you had had a conversation with a Mr.
Frank Calland?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, Mr. Calland called me up
Mr. Kennedy. Let's identify him. He is of local
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Mr. Calland was, I think, business manager of
local 786, IBEW.
Mr. Kennedy. That was also in what ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. In the jukebox field. He called me up and told me
that he wanted to see Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, did he say or had he spoken to you earlier
about you keeping away from j ukeboxes ?
16636 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What had he said to you ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. He said, "You fellows stay away from jukeboxes,
and I don't want you to have anything to do with them," and that
is why he said he wanted to see us.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he say would happen to you ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. He said, "You would get killed," or something
like that.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you get killed ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Not yet.
Mr. Kennedy. But he told you if you went into jukeboxes or at-
tempted to organize them you would get killed ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is ri^ht.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, despite that, Caggiano was off picketing some
of these jukebox locations?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And then did Mr. Calland, did he have a conversa-
tion with Mr. Caggiano about the inadvisability of it?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Mr. Calland asked me to tell Mr. Caggiano to come
up and visit him in his office.
Mr. Kennedy. Prior to that telephone call, had there been another
conservation ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. It was a conversation outside of the place, of the
union office.
Mr. Kennedy. What was that conversation ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Where Mr. Calland mentioned the name of Socks
Lanza, or something like that, and told him to quit involving with
juke boxes.
Mr. Kennedy. Will you relate to the committee what the conversa-
tion was that Mr. Calland said to Mr. Caggiano in your presence ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. He said something about it — I just don't remem-
ber exactly — but he said something, "You had better stay away from
the jukeboxes or you'll get yourself in a lot of trouble."
Mr. Kennedy. Was Little Angle's name mentioned. Little Augie
Carf ano, and Socks Lanza ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. At that time Mr. Calland mentioned two names.
Socks Lanza and Carf ano.
Mr. Kennedy. They were interested in Mr. Caggiano staying away
from the jukebox business?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Caggiano, what was his reaction to that ?
Mr, LiCHTMAN. He said
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Calland indicate that Socks Lanza and
Little Augie wanted to see Caggiano ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What did Caggiano say to that ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. He said, "To hell with him."
Mr. Ivennedy. So what happened next ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Then I received a telephone call from Mr. Frank
Calland and he asked me to advise Mr. Caggiano to come up to his
office and see him at 1776 Broadway. I went along and I went to the
office of Mr. Calland at 1776 Broadway.
Mr. Kennedy. Where is his office ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16637
Mr. LiCHTMAN. 1776 Broadway.
Mr. Kennedy. What floor is it on ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Eighth floor, and I got into the office and I noticed
a couple of people there that didn't look good to me, they looked like
real hoodlums to me, and I took a seat near the door in case anything-
happened so I could get out fast.
Mr. Kennedy. What date was this — in November ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. In November.
Mr. Kennedy. And was there anything else unusual about the
office?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. What struck me as unusual was that all of the wit-
dows seemed to be wide open and I knew something was wrong be-
cause I didn't like the looks of these two people in there with Mr.
Calland, but anyway Calland didn't like the idea of me being there,
and I presume at the time that lie had figured I was in the way and
they were going to do something to Mr. Caggiano at the time.
He asked us to meet him, or he asked Mr. Caggiano to meet him
in Brooklyn at the office of Al Denver, who was then president of the
Music Association.
Mr. Kennedy. Nothing happened at that meeting?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Nothing happened there, but subsequently I foimd
out
]Mr. Kennedy. Go ahead.
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Subsequently I found out that Mr. Calland, when
I met him later, told me that it is a good thing you were there, because
they were going to throw Mr. Caggiano out of the window, and I
wondered why they had the windows open.
jMr. Kennedy. Why had Mr. Caggiano gone up to Mr. Calland's
office in the first place ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, Mr. Caggiano knew at that time that Mr.
Calland had lost his charter in local 786, and he figured that we of
local 254 were the only ones left with a charter in the coin machine
business, and he was convinced at that time that possibly Mr. Calland
would come in with us or we go in with Mr. Calland.
Mr. Kennedy. He thought he wanted to make a nice friendly deal.
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right, and he thought he would make a deal
with them because we were the only ones left.
Mr. Kennedy. Instead, he was planning to have him thrown out the
window ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You were present and that was not done, and was
there a subsequent meeting ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Mr. Calland called up Mr. Denver of the association,
the Music Association, and made an appointment to meet him in his
office at 5 o'clock that particular evening. I wasn't keen about going
out to Brooklyn, but Mr. Caggiano said, "Come on out." He said, "Mr.
Calland lost his charter, and he is meeting the president of the associa-
tion and the only thing I think they can talk about is probably they will
do business with local 254.''
So I went out and I got out to Brooklyn and we pulled up across the
street from Mr. Denver's office, and I kind of didn't like the idea of
another car standing in front of Mr, Denver's place, with three men in
36751— 59— pt. 46 12
16638 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
it ; of the three men that were in that car, I think that I recognized two
that were up at the office on Broadway.
I didn't want to show that I was a coward in any way, and I would
go in and see what it was all about, and so I walked into Mr. Denver's
office, and we went into Mr. Denver's office, and we sat there for about
2 minutes and we were talking with Mr. Denver.
Suddenly out of the side door, which leads into a garage, Mr. Cal-
land comes in and he said to Mr. Caggiano, "What do you want?" I
think if I recollect rightly, Mr. Caggiano said something about "You
having complete jukebox business and you lost your charter and maybe
we can do something with you."
So Mr. Calland seemed to be very mad and he walked outside to the
garage and he was back in 2 minutes and I imagine that time he called
in the hoodlums, and he said to Mr. Caggiano, "Say, come here, I want
to talk to you a minute," and so Mr. Caggiano got up out of his chair,
and he walked outside of the door into the garage and I don't know, the
first thing I saw someone hit him on the head, and I heard screaming,
and Mr. Denver ran out of the office and out into where the screaming
was, and I closed the door and put a chair under the knob of the door
and put my foot on the door to see what was going to happen.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you hear in the next room (
Mr. LiciiTMAN. I heard screams and yelling and everything, and
the first thing I knew Mr. Calland came knocldng on the door and he
said, "Open the door ; give me my coat. My coat is inside," and I said,
"I am not opening any door," and he said, "Please, Charlie, open the
door and I want to get my coat."
So I didn't know. I did some figuring fast and I kept my foot at
the bottom of the door and pulled the chair away and left about this
much space open, and I passed his coat out through the door, and he
kept pulling at the other end, until he finally got the coat out.
Then I stayed inside and, in fact, in the meantime I had called — I
•called up the police department on the telephone in the place, and 5
minutes went by, and I heard no noise, and I opened up the door and
I looked outside, and I see Mr. Caggiano lying on the floor pretty
badly bruised and beaten up. Then I took him out of there and
brought him to a doctor's office in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. What did Denver say, and what was he doing?
Mr, LicHTMAN. Denver in the meantime ran outside to see what
was going on, too, and when he came back I accused him of probably
knowing what was going on, but he said, "I didn't know anything
about what was going on and I didn't know what the comeofi' was,"
and I said, "It was pretty funny we should be invited out to your office,
and Jimmy should get beat up and I was next, and you shouldn't
know anything about it."
He said, "Honest to God, I don't know anything about it." That is
what he said to me at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. What did Caggiano report when he got to the
hospital?
Mr. LiciiTMAN. AVhat do you mean ?
Mr. Kennedy. What did he say had happened to him ?
Mr. LiGHTMAN. He said they hit him with something, and threw
him down on the floor, and knocked him unconscious and kicked him
in the chest.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16639
Mr. Kennedy. He reported that to you ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did lie tell that to the hospital ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what he told the hospital ?
Mr, LiCHTMAN. I think he told the hospital he was in an automobile
accident or something.
Mr. Kennedy. What was your relationship with Mr. Caggiano
after that?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, after that Mr. Caggiano and I parted com-
pany.
Mr. Kennedy. Why ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, on account of this incident. And I figured
that I damn near got beat up myself, or killed, or nobody knows what
they were going to do, and I thought it best to part company, and he
went and got a charter in another union, and he went in business for
himself.
At that time I severed my connections with the coin machine busi-
ness entirely.
The Chairman. These charters just are handled like a license and
they are kind of parceled out to individuals, are they ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I don't know. I have my charter since 1937, find
this was 1948, 1 believe.
The Chairman. Wliy do j^ou call it "my charter" ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I mean "our charter." I was the secretary.
The Chairman. It seems like a lot of them regard it that way.
Mr. LiCHTMAN. In union terms, I believe, if you ask any miion
official, they always say that "It is mine."
The Chairman. I know that. I have noticed that.
All right; proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you also knew Sam Getlan ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, you might remember Sam Getlan
was the one responsible for the so-called bouncing charter during the
hearings that we had on Johnny Dioguardi. He had formerly
worked or he testified before the committee that he had formerly
worked for Frank Costello in the jukebox business, and he has since
:passed away over the last year, I believe; isn't that right?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes; that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, he came back, and he was down in Miami, and
he came back in 1951 ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. He came back in 1951 and I met him on the street
and he asked me to give him a job, and he was broke and he didn't
have any money, and so I gave him $5, but he kept pestering me I
should give him a job, and so I gave him a job and the job was going
out to different stores, and getting a list of who had games in their
stores. He wasn't so very satisfactory working because he had an old
ear that he went around with and I gave him one of my other men to
work with and the other man claimed he didn't want to get out of the
car and he sent him out to find out if there was a game in this particu-
lar store.
About that time I got a call from some jukebox mechanics in West-
chester County.
16640 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Getlan was hanging around the union office at that time, wlien I
received a call, and he asked me if he could go with me, and I thought
nothing of it, and I would take him with me.
I went up to Westchester to meet the operators in Westchester and
we called a meeting of mechanics, and seven mechanics showed up.
It was a disappointment to have a meeting with only seven mechanics
showing up, and I sent a car around to the different mechanics again,
to meet us again in a 2- week period.
The second week, to my surprise, instead of the mechanics showing
up, and some of them did show up, but I found out that subsequently
21 operators showed up at this particular meeting, and they asked me
why I was trying to organize the mechanics in this business, as they
were all satisfied.
I said the only reason I am trying to organize the mechanics is
because I received call from the mechanics and they asked me to come
up there to get the mechanics together, and they wanted to join
the union.
At this meeting with the 21 operators, and quite a number of
mechanics were there, probably about 7 or 8 at the time, I started
to give them a story about the reason why they should have a union
up here, and why they should join a union, but one fellow spoke up
very well about unions, and I figured he was a lawyer, so I asked him,
"Are you an attorney ?" He said "Yes."
He spoke again, and so he called me outside, and he said to me,
"Mr. Lichtman, these fellows here that are meeting are some mechanics
but most of them are operators of jukeboxes in Westchester County,"
and he said, "they called me in tonight to listen to you and they are
engaging me to be their attorney to start an association."
And he said to me at that time not to bother with these people
now, that they would call me when he became counsel for the associa-
tion and he was organizing this association in Westchester County for
these jukebox operators, and he would contact me when they were
organized, and I could make a deal with the association instead of
trying to make a deal with the mechanics who are employed in the
business.
I left, and Getlan was with me at the time, and we went outside.
But I do recollect that this attorney said to me, "I will do business
with you, Mr. Lichtman, under one condition, that you do not bring
any racketeers into the picture in Westchester County."
I said, "You have my word for it, and I have no connection with
racketeers, and I never did busines with racketeers in the unions and
I certainly will not start now. If I come up here, we will come up
clean and legitimate as an organization of the mechanics and collec-
tors in the juke-box business of Westchester."
So I came back to New York and Mr. Getlan was advised by me
to go around to contact the mechanics and I gave him the addresses
of where these mechanics could be found, and to try to sign up the
mechanics individually before we would ever meet with any associa-
tion in the future.
Mr. Getlan did go around and I was told by the main office of the
Retail and Wholesale and Department Store Union at that time that
I had no jurisdiction in Westchester County.
So the vice president, Mr. Jack Altman, of the United Retail and
Wholesale and Department Stores, gave me a letter to local 305 in
IMPROPER ACTR'^ITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD 16641
Mount Vernon, N.Y., and he said: "You go up tliore and speak to
Mr. Rosensweig and Mr. Sertes, and possibly you could work through
that local."
I went up to see. Mr. Rosensweig and Mr. Sertes at local 305 in
Mount Vernon, and I explained that wc were going out to organize
the mechanics and collectors in Westchester County and that they
had jurisdiction in retail and wholesale and department store union
in that county, and that they could work with us in some way or
other.
Mr. Kennedy. Get to about where you got Mr. Getlan and his
activities there.
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, I took Mr. Getlan up there, and Mr. Rosen-
sweig said, "You bring a desk up to our office, and you leave it in tliis
office here, and you can call yours local 305A."
Mr. Kennedy. Getlan started working up there ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Getlan started working up there, under local 305A.
Well, about a week later, Mr. Getlan calls me up, and in fact he
used to call me up every day to give me a report of his work he did
up there, and he probably lied about what he was doing, and then he
called me up one day and he said, "I have signed a contract with the
association in Westchester County."
I said, "Well, why wasn't I present and why wasn't I told about
this contract?"
He said, "Well, I gave them an excuse about you being busy down-
town, and you couldn't attend."
'Wlien I found out subsequently that Mr. Getlan signed a contract
with the Westchester Operators Guild of White Plains, N.Y., with
local 305A of Mount Vernon, and he had gone in with Mr. Rosen-
sweig and Mr. Sertes and in their office, and they decided to take this
thing over by themselves.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were forced out of it.
Mr. LiCHTLiAN. I was forced out of the picture.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat did they tell you that you could do ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I met Mr. Rosensweig since subsequently, and he
told me that I should forget about Westchester County and this was
in June, and he offered me a Christmas present if I would forget
about my activities.
Mr. Kennedy. What kind of a Christmas present ?
Mr, LiCHTMAN. He said, "We will give you cash," and I actually
pushed him out of the car after he told me that.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go back up to Westchester then to try to
get your union back ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I tried to go back, and get it started again, and I
met a party by the name of "Blackie." This Blackie was working
with Getlan, and he was supposed to be the strong-arm man. He
was the enforcer. He went up to the operators and mechanics and
in other words he bulldozed them saying, "You have to stay with
Getlan's union, and this fellow is out, and he has nothing to do
with it anymore."
As much as I tried to talk to these people up there, I just made up
my mind about it.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was Blackie?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, Blackie seemed to be a tough guy to me.
16642 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever identify him ?
Mr. LiCHTiviAN. Yes, I identified his picture.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio is he known as ?
Mr. LiciiTMAN. I don't know who he is.
Mr. Ej:nnedy. Is this Blackie? Did Blackie tell you anything
about himself ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, he told me that he did a bit up in Wester-
field prison and I better not fool around up in Westchester County,
because if I do I would only get the worst of it.
He said, "You take my advice and stay out of Westchester entirely."
Mr. Kennedy. The worst of it ; what did that mean ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Some harm would come to me.
The Chairman. I want to see if you can identify this picture.
I hand you a picture here which bears No. 73059, New York City
Police. Will you examine it and state if you identify the person?
(A photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes, that is Blackie.
The Chairman. That is the Blackie that you are talking about ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
The Chairman. Whatever his name is, you don't know except that
is the Blackie you are testifying about ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
The Chairman. That picture may be made Exhibit No. 11.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 11" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
The Chairman. Do you know anything about the background of
this fellow Blackie?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, subsequently I found out, or when I met
him at an operators' meeting, when I was talking to some mechanics,
he tried to chase me out of the offices and prevented me from talking
to the mechanics in this operators' place. He said, "I want you to
know I did a bit up in Westerfield, and if you don't stop fooling
around with me you will get yourself hurt some way or other, and
stay out of Westchester County."
The Chairman. This Blackie tried to run you out of Westchester
County ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. He told me to stay out.
Mr. Kennedy. Could we have a member of the staff identify the
background of Mr. Blackie ?
The Chairman. You have not been sworn, have you ?
Mr. CoRRiGAN. I have not been.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. CORRIGAN. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH CORRIGAN
The Chairman. State your name, your present employment and
occupation.
Mr. CoRRiGAN. My name is Joseph Corrigan, and I am a detective
in the New York City Police Department. I am assigned to the
crimmal intelligence squad of the New York City Police Department.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16643
The Chairman. How long have j'ou been with the New York
Police Department?
Mr. CoRRiGAN, Eleven years, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Corrigan, do you have the police sheet or the
backgroimd on the individual that is identified as "Blackie"?
Mr. Corrigan. Yes, sir, I do.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is that man?
Mr. Corrigan. That man is Lawrence Centore, C-e-n-t-o-r-e.
Mr. Kennedy. Briefly, what is his number of arrests and convic-
tions ?
Mr. Corrigan. On the sheet here, sir, he has 12 arrests, showing 1
conviction.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1932 he received a 7-10 year sentence for a pay-
roll holdup?
Mr. Corrigan. In 1931 on this sheet, sir. In 1932 he was sentenced.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1942 he was admitted to Fordham Hospital suf-
fering from gunshot wounds ?
Mr. Corrigan. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been charged with robbery a number of
times and felonious assault and burglary ?
Mr. Corrigan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES LICHTMAN— Resumed
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you still decided you wanted to get your union
back, and did you go back up there ?
Mr. LicHTMAN. I went back there a number of times, but I found
out that Mr. Getlan had a pretty good hold on it because he had
brought in some mobsters in the picture.
Mr. Kennedy. You talked to a man by the name of Valachi ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is Valachi ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I happened to know Valachi from around Harlem
and he thought he could straighten it up for me.
The Chairman. This police record of this man Lawrence Centore,
may be made exhibit 11 A.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit 11 A" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
Mr. Kennedy. He is an associate of Anthony "Strollo," alias Tony
Bender, and Vincent Morro, convicted of violation of the Federal nar-
cotics laws, conspiracy, in 1956 and sentenced to 5 years. He has 17
arrests, and 5 convictions. You contacted him to try to get help ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. No. He contacted me, and he said he could
straighten it up for me.
Mr. Kennedy. He told you he could straighten it up ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat happened then ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. So he had me go up to a bar on 180th Street and
Southern Boulevard, and I don't know what happened, and I sat out
in front of the bar.
Mr. Kennedy. ^Vlio was that who met at the bar ?
16644 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, I met Getlan there and I saw this Blackie
there, and this Mr. Valachi went in the backroom and they had a
meeting.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was in the backroom ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I don't know who was in the back.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Jimmy "Blue Eyes" was in the back-
room ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I didn't see him myself, and I saw a party, Tommy
Milo.
Mr. Kennedy. M-i-l-o ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. A notorious gangster in New York ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I imagine so.
Mr. Kennedy. Jimmy "Blue Eyes" Alo?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I didn't see him.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Ratteni ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I didn't see him there,
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know he was there ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. I know they were hoodlums, but I don't know who
they were. I recognized one of them.
Mr. Kennedy. They had a meeting as to who was to control the
jukebox union in AVestchester ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What did they decide ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. From what they told me at that time, Valachi told
me at that time, that my partner, Jimmy Cagginao, took $500 and
sold me out and for that reason I couldn't get anything back there no
more.
Mr. Kennedy. This meeting in the backroom of the bar decided
that you should not have the union, that it should stay with Mr.
Getlan?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right. "You have no racket connections,
you are nobody, so you are out."
Mr. Kennedy. You had Mr. Valachi, who has a pretty good record.
Mr. LiCHTMAN. He was just trying to deceive, which I knew he
couldn't do nothing, but I wanted to see what he was going to say.
Mr. Kennedy. So anyway, it was decided that you were finished ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Valachi say that there was any way of revers-
ing this decision ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, he said at the time that there could be a re-
versal if you take care of some people. I said, "What do you mean
take care of some people?" And he said, "Well, you have to put four
people on the payroll and take care of everybody."
I said, "Look, I don't want this Westchester deal. I don't want
nothing with the union up there. Forget about the whole thing." I
made up my mind to forget the whole thing because I wasn't going
to share anything with anybody.
Mr. Kennedy. Actually, this was a rather profitable area, opera-
tion, that you were discussing, was it not ?
Mr. Tjichtman. Well, it amounted to about 4,000 machines in West-
•chester County.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16645
Mr. Kennedy. "Which, of course, is not just the dues of tlie em-
ployees.
Mr, LiCHTMAN. 60 cents for labor for 4,000 machines, and $3 a
montli dues for each mechanic.
Mr. Kennedy. So that would be $8 or $4,000 a month ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Around three or four thousand dollars a month.
Mr. Kennedy. How far up did that extend ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, it was only Westchester County, as far as I
was concerned, but I understand that when Getlan got there, he went
all the way up to Syracuse.
Mr. Kennedy. So that would have mcluded even more than 4,000
macliines?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Yes; very much more. He started to climb from
one county to another until he got up to Syracuse.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand the connection with Tommy
Milo? Do you know what Getlan's comiection with Tommy Mila
was?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Well, when Getlan first come with me, and he was
up there, I heard him mention a man by the name of Tommy Milo.
I said to him, "TVlio is this Tommy Milo?" He said, "Some racket
guy that owns a bar in Yonkers somewhere."
I said, "Look, I don't want you to go near any racket people."
Mr. Ivennedy. Yes ; but where did he say his connection was ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. His brother.
Mr. Kennedy. His brother ; Getlan's brother ?
Mr. LicHTiiAN. Did time with Milo's nephew, at that time he told
me. That is how Getlan was able to contact this Milo.
Mr. KJENNEDY. All right.
The Chairman. Have you anything. Senator ?
Senator Church. How long has it been that you have been out of
this coin-operating union business ?
Mr. LiCHTMAN. Seven or eight years.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. We have an affidavit in the form of a letter from
Jack Altman, of the Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Union,
CIO, which I would like to read the pertinent parts of into the record,
after you examine it.
The Chairman. Very well. The affidavit will be admitted in evi-
dence. It will be made exhibit No. 12. You may read the pertinent
parts of it.
(Affidavit referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 12" for reference
and will be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kjennedy (reading) :
In 1951 I was the vice president of the Retail, Wholesale, and Department
Store Union, CIO. I was also its eastern regional director, which area covered
that of New York. At a meeting of the international executive board of the
above-mentioned union held in Atlantic City on March 27, 1951, it was moved,
seconded, and carried unanimously that Charles Lichtman and local 254 shall
be suspended from the international union, pending investigation in accordance
with the international constitution, article 13, sections II and VII.
A hearing committee was thereafter appointed by President Irving Simon,
now deceased, which called Mr. Lichtman and all local officers to appear and
give reasons why the charter in local 254 should not be resolved. The officers
of the local failed to appear and the charter was automatically revoked.
16646 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The reasons for this action, to the best of my recollection, were as follows :
(1) The international union was reluctant to have any local union function-
ing in the coin machine field because the industry itself was under suspicion as
being run by shady elements.
(2) The practice of selling union labels to this industry lent itself to abuse.
(3) The complaints had been made to the Brooklyn district attorney by some
employers that while not substantiated seemed to have some element of truth.
(4) Most of the activity of the local seemed to be to adjudicate and allot terri-
tory for coin machine owners and not to improve conditions of the workers.
We didn't know whether the membership of local 254 consisted of workers or
employers.
(5) We had heard rumors that Mr. Lichtman was oi)erating with an
A.F. of L. charter at the same time as that of a CIO. We were shown labels
that Mr. Lichtman was accused of selling that bore an A.F. of L. union name
and not that of local 254, CIO.
For all these reasons and because the field was suspect, our international
executive board was glad to get rid of this local.
'It is signed Jack Altman, vice president.
" The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Theodore Blatt.
The Chairman. Mr. Blatt. Be sworn.
• You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Blatt. I do.
TESTIMONY OF THEODOEE BLATT
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Blatt. My name is Theodore Blatt. I live at 1515 East Eighth
Street, in the Borough of Brooklyn, city of New York. I am an at-
torney duly admitted to practice in the State of New York, with
offices at 32 Broadway, Manhattan.
The Chairman. You waive counsel, of course ?
Mr. Blatt. I do, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to have Mr. May question this witness.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. May.
Mr. May. Mr. Blatt, you became associated with an employers'
group, an association, in 1932, called the Greater New York Operators
Association ?
Mr. Blatt. That is right. Wlien you say "associated" I was re-
tained by them as counsel.
Mr. May. You served as counsel for the association ?
Mr. Blatp. Yes, sir.
Mr. May. Around 1936 to 1937, was there a meeting called to con-
sider a merger with another association called Amalgamated?
Mr. Blatt. Let mo say this at the outset. I am an active practi-
tioner. When you ask me questions about something that happened
in 1936 or 193T, my best answers will be mere conjecture or guess-
work. I don't recall. There may have been. There was some talk
of trying to consolidate two existing operators' associations.
You see, there was one operators' association in the Borough of
Brooklyn and Queens and there was another one of operators who
operated in Manhattan and the Bronx.
IMPROPER ACTrV'ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16647
Mr. May. Mr. Blatt, we discussed this matter in New York. You
recall the situation where there was a meeting held to consider a merger
of these two associations, and received some visitors at that meeting?
Mr. Blait. Yes. I recall that.
Mr. JNIay. Would you tell the committee what happened when those
visitors arrived ?
Mr. Bl.\tt. Well, we had an operatoi^' meeting. I was on the dais.
So was the attorney for the Manhattan organization. Someone at
the door called for the chairman of the board, and after awhile he
came back and reported to me that a delegation, that is, several people,
had come in and announced to him that they have taken over the
organization.
They also stated, "We know you have $700 or $800 in the bank. You
can keep that, but whatever comes in today, of course, belongs to us."
Mr. May. "Wlio did these people represent ?
Mr. Blatt. They mentioned some names. I don't think it would
be even fair to repeat them. They are matters of hearsay.
Mr, May. Did they say they represented Joe Adonis?
Mr. BluVtt. They said that they were sent by Joe Adonis.
Mr. May. Mr. Chairman, Joe Adonis was a notorious hoodlum and
racketeer in the Brooklyn area and deported himself in 1956. He
received a number of convictions.
Mr. Blatt, you then became attorney for what we are calling
AAMONY sometime in the 1940's ?
Mr. Bl.\tt. That is correct. I might add that the following day af-
t«r that visit — I reported the incident in the DA's office over in Brook-
lyn, but let's go back to the question. I was. When AAMONY was
reorganized after a lapse of time, I was again retained by them.
Mr. May. About 1948?
Mr. Blatt. Thereabouts.
Mr. ]VLv.Y. Did you participate in the negotiations with Mr. Licht-
man when his union, local 254, signed a contract with your association ?
Mr. Blatt. Most likely. I was present at all collective bargaining
sessions.
Mr. May. You heard Mr. Lichtman's testimony here earlier today ?
Mr. Blatt. I did.
Mr. May. Was it correct ?
Mr. Blatt. No. No, and I don't intend to characterize his testi-
mony. I think the appearance, the testimony, of the person speaks
for itself. I think it is quite apparent that the man is a labor adven-
turer.
The Chairman. A what?
Mr. Blatt. A labor adventurer, and I am being kind in using the
word "adventurer." He testifies that he started out with a laundro-
mat charter. He then branched out into the coin-machine business,
and, subsequently, you have heard him say that he and Jimmy Cag-
giano tried to take over the juke box business.
If I may continue, I heard from the testimony of an affidavit from
the Retail Clerks and so forth that in addition to the CIO charter, Mr.
Lichtman was also doing business under an AFL charter.
Mr. IMay. Mr. Blatt, why did your association sign a contract with
Mr. Lichtman's union ?
Mr. Blatt. The coin-machine business is a very vulnerable business.
An operator will buy a number of machines and put them out on loca-
16648 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
tions. Any hoodlum that gets a charter, and it is easy enough for
hoodlums to get charters, apropos of the chairman's remark, all he
has to do is hire some Bowery bum and put a sandwich sign on his
back and walk in front of the locations and that operator will come
running fast to join that union or any other union in order to protect
his business.
Mr. May. Is that what happened to the members of AAMON Y ?
Mr. Bi^TT. That is what happened to the members of AAMONY,
with Mr. Lichtman and all tlie others who tried to get in.
Mr. May. They were forced to sign these contracts ?
Mr. Blatt. Right. In fact, I, as the attorney for the organization,
tried consistently to keep these people at bay.
Mr. May. A number of members of AAMONY are self-employed
operators ?
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
Mr. May. Maybe 50 percent or more ?
Mr. Blatt. It is about correct ; one way or the other.
Mr. May. These operators were also forced to become members of
local 2'54?
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
Mr. May. What could the union do for these people, Mr. Blatt ?
Mr. Blatt. Primarily avoid molesting their locations. If they
didn't pay the dues and assesssments, their locations would be picketed.
Mr. Lichtman, as well as the others, did picket, not locations to save
the operators, but to enforce his demands for dues.
Mr. May. Did the members of AAMONY request service from
Lichtman 's union ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, you are asking me about a field that is not in my
line.
Mr. May. Mr. Blatt, aren't you also an operator ?
Mr. Blatt. I have a financial interest in a small route, but I am
not an operator. 1 1 is a corporation and I own some stock in it.
Mr. May. Is that a jukebox route ?
Mr. Blatt. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. May. Jukebox or games ?
Mr. Blatt. Both.
Mr. May. Did you have an interest in that company at the time you
represented AAMONY ?
Mr. Blatt. Yes. Well, I represented AAMONY until last year.
Mr. May. Did you ever request Mr. Lichtman to give you service ^
Mr. Blatt. No, sir.
Mr. May. Did any employee of yours i*equest Mr. Lichtman's
union ?
Mr. Blatt. No, sir.
Mr. May. Did you ever request any union to give you service?
Mr. Blatt, No, sir; I did not.
Mr. May. Were you satisfied with Mr. Lichtman's treatment of
your association ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, I wasn't satisfied with any union that wanted
to impose assessments and so forth. You have my prior testimony.
You can see that, that I consistently advised the organization to at-
tempt to negotiate with a union, a large union. I didn't think that
this industry was big enough to support the union of its own. A
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16649
large union that would be satisfied merely to charge dues, a large
union that wouldn't need aSvSessments in order to meet its expenses.
Mr, ^L\Y. Did you contact Mr. Lichtman and suggest to him that
he sell his contract ?
Mr. Blatt. No, I never did. I heard the testimony here for the
first time.
Mr. May. Did you not arrange a meeting between him and local
222?
Mr. Blatt. No, sir ; I did not.
Mr. Mat. Didn't you sit in at that meeting ?
Mr. Blatt. I did not.
Mr. May. When Mr. Horowitz of local 222 paid Mr. Lichtman
$2,000, were you present ?
Mr. Blatt. I was not.
Mr. May. Were you responsible for the eventual sale of the con-
tract from local 222 to Mr. Caggiano's union ?
Mr. Blatt. I was not — I had no part in the sale. I started the
negotiations with local 222, counselor. I had met Mr. Horowitz.
Mr. May. You were friendly with Mr. Horowitz ?
Mr. Blatt. I had met him at about that time in connection with
a political campaign in Brooklyn. I was told that he was the presi-
dent of a large, substantial union. I took my problems to him. I
told him what our problems were.
Mr. May. You had some conversation regarding the union busi-
ness?
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
Mr. May. Did you tell him about Mr. Lichtman's union at that
time?
Mr. Blatt. Well, I started negotiating with Mr. Horowitz, and
I asked him could we possibly arrange to have a committee of our
board of directors discuss with his officials the possibility of entering
into a collective-bargaining agreement with local 222. That
started the machinery going between Lichtman, Caggiano, and Mr.
Horowitz. I know of the $2,000 payment. I Imow that they paid
him, as Mr. Horowitz puts it, to compensate them for their organiza-
tion work.
The way he puts it, "Every union has expenditures in organizing.
We reimburse them for organization expenses in the sum of $2,000."
But I don't recall ever sitting in on any of these conferences. But, as
I said, it is a long time ago. I don't remember whether I was there
or not. I see nothing wrong even if I was present, so that any state-
ment I make here I am simply giving to the best of my recollection.
Mr. May. Mr. Blatt, when the contract with local 254 was in
existence were you aware that other operator members of the associa-
tion requested service from Mr. Lichtman, requested pickets from Mr.
Lichtman ?
Mr. Blatt. The operators, as far as I know, and at the meetings
when I reported the results of either negotiation or the culmination
of a collective bargaining agreement, the report to the operators was
that when a location is lost, whoever belongs to the union, the employee
whose livelihood is hurt should report it to his union.
The union requested such reports. First of all, the union had an
interest in the location. As you know, they made an assessment at the
16650 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
rate of anywhere from 50 to 75 cents for each location. When they
lost a location they lost the income. They wanted to know that.
Mr. May. So as I understand it, a self-employed operator would,
himself, notify the union ?
Mr. Blatt. Very likely.
Mr. May. And in the other case, where there were employees, the
employees would notify the union ?
Mr. Blatt. That is correct.
Mr. May. The result would be, either way, that the union would
picket the location ?
Mr. Blatt. If the machine was operated or serviced by a nonimion
mechanic, the union was supposed to picket that location.
Mr. May. Did the employees pay dues to the union, Mr. Blatt?
Mr. Bl.\tt. Well, the contract provided for checkoff.
Mr. May. Who actually paid the dues for the employees ?
Mr. Blatt. And then again this is — I can only testify from myself.
But from my best know^ledge and experience, it was usually paid by
the operator, although you are in a better position to know. You have
questioned a number of operators.
Mr. May. Who paid the dues for your employees, Mr. Blatt ?
Mr. Blatt. The corporation in which I hold stock.
Mr. JMay. Later, after Mr. Caggiano signed a contract with your
association, you ran into some difficulty with a man named Al Cohen
and union 465? Union 465 belonged to Mr. Caggiano, and Al
Cohen's union was 443 of the Eetail Clerks ?
Mr. Blatt, That is correct.
Mr. May. What happened in that instance ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, unfortunately, as tlie chairman said, a charter is
.something like a chattel that is handed around, and an individual by
the name of Al Cohen obtained such a charter and announced that he
was taking over the coin-machine business. He proceeded to picket
locations, even though they had union labels belonging to 46 — I can't
keep track of these numbers. Caggiano's was 463 ?
Mr. May. No, 465, independent.
Mr, Blatt. Even though these locations, these games, had labels of
465, Mr. Cohen proceeded to picket the locations, with the result that
the operators, the people that I represented, were caught in the
middle.
As a matter of fact, some of the operators paid to both unions.
We, of course, complained to Mr, Caggiano, and said, "This is a juris-
dictional dispute that you should be able to straighten out."
Mr. May. Were there situations where pickets representing botli
unions were picketing the same locations ?
Mr. Blatt. No. Cohen's — Cohen would picket locations belonging
to our members. To retaliate, 465 would throw pickets on locations
belonging to the other union.
Mr. ]\Iay. Did you liave a meeting with these individuals and make
some suggestions ?
Mr, Blatt. Yes. A meeting was held before the board of directors
of the association of AAMONY at their office, and the suggestion was
made that they combine forces and have one union.
Mr. May. Did that come to pass ?
Mr. Blatt. That did.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16651
Mr. May. Were the individual union members consulted in this
chan f>;e ?
Mr, Blatt. The requests came from the individual members to tlie
board of directors, and, of course, it tlien liad to be submitted on tlie
open floor to the membershi]).
Mr, May. The union membership?
Mr, Blatt, No, To our membership. Well, this question of their
consolidation was no concern of the operators. It is strictly a
union — —
Mr. May. You don't know whether it was submitted to the union
membership or not ?
Mr. Blatt. No, I do not,
Mr, May. 433 was eventually placed into trusteeship by the inter-
national of the RCIA, the Eetail Clerks, and the Retail Clerks, as I
understand it, suggested that the association members or the employ-
ees of tlie association members pay dues to local 888 of the Retail
Clerks; is that true?
Mr, BLAn\ AVell, a letter was received at the office of the associa-
tion— I recall seeing it — in wliich a trustee suggested that the dues be
paid to the trustee.
Mr. May. Did that ever happen ?
Mr. Blatt. No. They decided not to pay to the trustee.
Mr. INIay. The association members didn't want to do business with
local 888?.
Mr. Blatt. The association members didn't want to do business
witli any union, if they had their free choice.
Mr. May, "VVlien you lost local 433, that left the association without
any union?
^Ir, Blatt. That is correct,
Mr. May. What took place thereafter ? Were approaches made by
various unions ?
]Mr. Blatt. Well, a number of individuals holding charters from
different internationals, from different unions
Mr, May. Would you list a few, Mr. Blatt ?
Mr. Blatt, Well, there was No. 19,
Mr. May. Of what international ?
Mr. Blatt. I don't know,
Mr, May. The Federated Service Workers Union?
Mr. Blatt. I don't know. We know them by lottery numbers.
No. 19. No. 433 was reorganized as an independent. For about a
year, as you have noticed, we were without a union, and when the
going got rough and we saw that we had to negotiate with the union
for self-preservation, for self-protection, I again reached out for a
good, strong, legitimate union, a large union, where our member-
ship could get lost in the shuffle, a union that would take us in only
on a dues-paying basis,
I asked a Teamster local, T think it is 222
Mr, :May. 202?
Mr, Blatt, 202, Whether they would negotiate a collective bar-
gaining agreement for our industry.
ISfr, May, Do you know the full name of local 202 ?
Mr, Blatt. I gave the card to Mr. Constandy.
Mr. May. According to our information, it is called the Produce
Purveyors, Fresh and Frozen Vegetable, Processed Fish Drivers.
16652 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Blatt. Yes. But it is legitimate — it is a good union. It is a
union that we would have no hesitation to do business with.
Mr. May. Why weren't you able to do business with 202 ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, we had several negotiations, meetings with them.
We had arranged several committee meetings. Wages and other
items had been discussed. We were on the verge of entering into a
collective bargaining agreement. Then we called a membership
meeting to submit it to our membership.
Mr. May. Excuse me. At this point, Mr. Blatt, did local 202 pre-
sent to you any designation cards for employees ?
Mr. Blatt. No, no.
Mr. May. So you had a board meeting ?
Mr. Blatt. That is right. Several other unions came along at
that time with pledge cards, seeking negotiations with us. Of course,
while we were negotiating with 202, we kept them at bay. After
considerable diflEiculty, the membership decided to go with 202.
Then when I called up the next day to arrange for committees to
meet and to negotiate, we were first told that we would have to wait
a while, and then we were told that 202 had lost jurisdiction from
the international.
Mr. May. What union was given jurisdiction by the Teamsters?
Mr. Blatt. Local No. 226.
Mr. May. Wlio is the head of that local ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, the people that approached me was a man by the
name of De Grandis.
Mr. May. Apparently he is president of that union.
Mr. Blatt. And Zundel.
Mr. May. Mr. Blatt, had you been approached prior to this time
on one occasion by Mr. De Grandis?
Mr. Blatt. Yes. He came to see me a year or 2 years prior to
that.
Mr. May. What did he want at that time ?
Mr. Blatt. The same as the others. He announced that he had a
charter, and would there be any possibility of negotiating a collective
bargaining agreement. I told him at the time that we had a collective
bargaining agreement.
Mr. May. Did he give you any references at that time?
Mr. Blatt. Well, he mentioned that somebody in the industry
referred him to me.
Mr. May. Who was that?
Mr. Blatt. He mentioned the name of Mr. Sugarman. I have since
checked with Mr. Sugarman and he denies that he ever sent him to
me or gave him my name or referred him to me.
Mr. May. Who is Mr. Sugarman ?
Mr. Blatt. He is the head of Runyon Sales.
Mr. May. So you were becoming forced to do business with local
266?
Mr. Blatt. TTltimately, we did business with 266.
Mr. May. When local 19 of the Federated Service Workers Union
mode their appronch, I understand that you did not wish to do business
with local 19. Why was that ?
Mr. Blatt. As attorney for the organization, I tried to get for them
the best possible deal. I don't think — I didn't think 19 would fit the
bill.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16653
Mr.I^lAY. Why?
Mr. Blatt. We would again be confronted by a small group who
would have to make a living out of this industry. I don't think that
this industry can support the union. I preferred a large union.
Mr. ^LvY. Did you have some objection to the personnel ?
Mr. Blatt. I did not like the personnel either.
Mr. May. Do you recall
Mr. Blatt. All I could do was simply advise them.
Mr. May. In your opinion, who made up the personnel of local 19 ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, I met a man by the name of Amalfitano.
Mr. May. Anyone else ?
JVIr. Blatt. No. Amalfitano is the only one that I met.
Mr. ]\L\Y. Did you understand that the Gallo brothers had some
interest in local 19?
Mr. Blatt. Yes.
Mr. May. Do you recall how you once described the Gallo brothers ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, in my opinion, as I stated before, I think that
these people are the successors to Murder, Inc., and I just didn't want
to have any part of them.
Mr. May. So you didn't want local 19
Mr. Blatt. Or 266 or any of the others.
Mr. JSIay. You preferred local 202. The Teamsters granted juris-
diction to local 266 and Mr. De Grandis and you were eventually forced
to sign a contract with local 266 ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, in a roundabout way, which would take a long
time to explain. But eventually we found ourselves with a collective
bargaining agreement with 266.
Mr. May. I have just one more point, Mr. Blatt.
I noticed in one of the contracts that you had signed, or that was
signed by the association, and Mr. Caggiano's local, there is one par-
ticular clause describing the grievance committee. It says :
The labor-management committee or any other joint committee designated for
this purpose.
The next clause reads :
Any location owner who desires to change operators, or operators who desire
to abandon locations, shall submit notice in writing to the union of such inten-
tion. Any controversy arising because of such intended changes shall be sub-
mitted to the grievance committee heretofore mentioned.
Apparently that binds a location owner.
Mr. Blatt. Well, no. It was intended to open the door to a loca-
tion owner that wants to change operators, whether for lack of service
or type of equipment.
Mr. May. He must then go before the grievance committee?
Mr. Blatt. That is right. And state his reasons for wanting to
change, and if they were well founded I imagine he could change his
operation.
The Chairman. Mr. Blatt, how does a workingman get any bene-
fit from this sort of an arrangement ?
Mr. Blatt. Senator, this was not a business where a question like
that could be answered as lawyers would like to answer it.
36751— 59— pt. 46 13
16654 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. I understand maybe it isn't. That is why I want
to inquire about it. You think about labor unions as an institution,
an instrumentality to serve the interests of working people.
Mr. Blatt. Do they ?
The Chairman. I say we want to think of them that way. I am
trying to ascertain whether these unions that were operating in this
field, signing up the employers, whether they provided any benefits
for the man who worked.
Mr. Blatt. That, Senator, was secondary. Primarily, like Mr.
Lichtman and the others you will see here, they were interested in
their own welfare.
The Chairman. The primary interest was to serve the owner or
operator of the stand ?
Mr. Blatt. No, sir, Senator. The operator, the owner, does not
need a union. They fought them off at eveiy chance. He didn't want
the union.
The Chairman. Who is interested in the union ?
Mr. Blatt, It was forced upon them.
The Chairman. Whose interest did it serve? It didn't serve the
working person; you said that was secondaiy. "Wliose interest did
it serve ?
Mr. Blatt. The labor man.
The Chairman. The racketeer?
Mr. Blatt. The man who walked around with a charter in his
pocket. It is unfortunate that charters are obtained in that manner.
The Chairman. Isn't it true that the man placed the machines in
there because it protected their territory, when they would call out
these pickets to picket a place ?
Mr. Blatt. Picketing a place to protect the operator was a rarity.
Senator.
The Chairman. It did happen ?
Mr. Blatt. If it happened, it happened only in a location where a
machine was put in there that was not serviced by a union employee.
It is quite evident that the union could not in truth put a picket out
with a sign that the game is not serviced by a union mechanic when
in fact it is a union machine.
The Chairman. The whole thing as it operated was a racket.
Mr. Blatt. As far as the operators are concerned. Senator, and I
have lived with them for 30 years, they are as fine and decent and
respectable a group of people as you will find in any industry in the
country. It is unfortunate that these people, as I say, can get charters
and go out and harass them, the same as they harass other lines of
business.
I am sure the Senator is familiar with the situation upstate, up in
Suffern, where an individual with a record for bank robbery and a
few other things came out and harassed the businessmen to the point
where murder was coimnitted. We are in the same position.
The Chairman. We are familiar with a great deal of it, l)ut what I
am pointing out is that an operation of this character is not an opera-
tion designed and promoted in the interest of the working people,
is it ?
Mr. Blatt. This question would lend itself to an answer to "Have
you stopped beating your wife ? "
IMPROPER ACTWITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16655
I say this : By the very nature of the business-
The Chairman-. I think the answer would have to be no, he hasn't,
because I think this is still a beating and it is a racket. You say you
are people of good, honest businessmen, and they are forced into it.
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
The Chairman. I asked you if the laborer gets any benefit out of it
and you don't know of anything that they do get out of it. So no one
gets anything out of it except the racketeer.
Mr. Blati\ The people who run the unions. Labor in this field is
scarce. Mr. Chairman, they are well paid. They didn't need the union
and we certainly didn't.
The Chairman. Is there anything else ?
Senator Church. Yes,' Mr. Chairman.
There was a period of time, a rather long period of time, when local
433, which was affiliated with the Eetail Clerks International Union,
represented your association?
Mr. Blatt. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. That is correct, is it not ?
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
Senator Church. In 1957 was this local 433 put under trusteeship
by the Retail Clerks, do you recall ?
Mr. Blatt. Yes, sir. We received a letter that the trustee was
appointed.
Senator Church. Then at a subsequent date, the chart that I have
before me indicates that it was in March of 1957, did the International
Organization of Retail Clerks suspend or withdraw that charter for
local 433?
Mr. Blatt. Well, I believe the charter, to all intents and purposes,
was suspended when the trustee was appointed. Of course, they de-
manded that all books and records be surrendered, and the treasury.
Senator Church. At the time that the international established a
trusteesliip over this local ?
Mr. Blatt. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. At about that time or shortly thereafter, your
organization was involved in negotiations which looked toward an-
other union, and ultimately you came to the contractual terms with
local 266.
Mr. Blatt. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. Why did you drop local 433 following the trustee-
ship ? Did your contract expire ? Why was it that you changed unions
at that time?
Mr. Blatt. The trustee actually put them out of business and be-
sides the contract had expired in the meantime. Then there was a
lapse of about a year that we had no relationship, labor relationship,
with any union.
Senator Church. Let me ask you this : After you made your con-
tract with local 266, did that local represent any other operators in
tlie business in the area besides those that belonged to your association ?
Mr. Blatt. Yes, they did.
Senator Church. Did they represent any sizable number? Were
there other operators in sizable numbers other than those that were
in your association ?
16656 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Blatt. Yes, there were operators who belonged to the union
and did not belong to the association. I believe a list was submitted
to the authorities by the office.
Senator Church. Were some of these represented by this union ?
Mr. Blatt. Yes, sir.
Senator Church. So what you would ask the committee to believe,
then, is that your association was compelled to form these contracts
with unions, of one kind or another, because your failure to do so
would result in troubles to your members, including the picketing of
members and so forth, although you would have preferred not to have
dealt with these unions and although they were of no benefit or service
to you or your members ?
Still you were constrained to do so, and, as a result, the workers did
not benefit ; you or your members in the association did not benefit ;
only the union organizer ; is that right ?
Mr. Blatt. That is about a clear resume of the picture.
Senator Church. That is the representation you want to make to
this conmiittee as to what was going on ?
Mr. Blatt. Right. Let's keep the record clear. I have not repre-
sented the organization since May or June of last year, any organiza-
tion in this field.
Senator Church. For what reason are you no longer representing
this organization ?
Mr. Blatt. Well, there came a time when my advice was not heeded.
Therefore, my usefulness to the organization was at an end and I
tendered my resignation.
Senator Church. You have severed your relations with the asso-
ciation ?
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
Senator Church. That is all.
Mr. Kennedy. You found it advisable, did you not, on occasion to
try to deal with the union ? Didn't you find it advisable and helpful
for your association on occasion to try to make an arrangement with
the union?
Mr. Blatt. Well, helpful in the sense that when we had one union
the others stayed off our backs.
Mr. Kennedy. On occasion, if you preferred one union over an-
other, you wanted to do business with some unions ? You found that
helpful to the association ?
Mr. Blatt. With a legitimate union ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You also found it helpful to have pickets available
to give service to the association; isn't that correct?
Mr. Blatt. The picketing, Mr. Kennedy, was at the request, if
there was any picketing, at the request of the members of the union,
whose livelihood, or who had lost the locations.
Mr. Kennedy. Just answer the question.
There were occasions, and you are aware of the fact that there
were occasions, that association members requested picketing from the
union ?
Mr. Blatt. I don't know. I don't know what other operators have
done. I don't know what the other members have done, Mr. Ken-
nedy. I think I answered that question.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16657
Mr. Kennedy. I am asking you: You knew that there were
occasions that the members of the association requested picketing, re-
quested servicing ?
Mr. Blatt. There may have been. I don't know. I did not call.
You are asking me for what other people have done, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. I am asking you. This was well known in the
industry, well known in the trade, and you were aware of it during
this period of time.
Mr. BluVtt. When I reported the results of collective bargain-
ing
Mr. Kennedy. Just answer the question, Mr. Blatt. You were
aware of the fact that this was going on.
Mr. Blatt. Mr. Kennedy, I will answer it in this manner
Mr. Kennedy. Will you answer whether you were aware of the
fact that the servicing was being requested by members of the asso-
ciation, and then you can go on and give any explanation that you
want.
Mr. Blatt. I cannot make a positive statement of that nature, be-
cause you are asking me to testify as to what other people have done.
As an attorney you know, Mr. Kennedy, that that is not a proper
question.
Mr. Kennedy. Yes, it is a very proper question. I am asking you if
you were aware in the industry, from the information that you re-
ceived, that there was servicing being requested by members of the
association.
Mr. Blatt. I am aware of the contrary, Mr. Kennedy. The in-
structions were that if a location is lost, that the member of the union,
the employee, should report it to his union, not that the operator
should. As a matter of fact, I instructed the operators not to call the
union.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it not a fact that a great number of the members
of the union were self-employed people?
Mr. Blatt. That is right.
Mr. KJENNEDY. They were members of the union. These self-
employed people would call up and ask for servicing?
Mr. Blatt. Very likely.
Mr. Ivennedy. Then at least the members of the association, at least
those who were self-employed, were receiving some benelit from this
imion ?
Mr. Blatt. If the union responded, and if picketing was successful,
then they have received some benefits.
Mr. Ivennedy. By the union's granting of servicing, of giving this
picketing?
Mr. Blatt. That is it.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the reason that you paid the so-called label
charges, so that you would be able to finance the union ?
Mr. Blatt. I said that before.
Mr. Kennedy. I want to put this together, because you were begin-
ning to describe this as just a terrible thing that was being done by
union officials. But this was actually a collusive arrangement, that
you people also benefited very heavily from this arrangement.
Mr. Blatt. Mr. Kennedy, the operators benefited nothing from that
arrangement.
16658 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr, Kennedy, We just went through it.
Senator Church. Then why did the operators from time to time —
wliy did the operators from time to time, if they derived no benefits
at all, ask the union to go out and picket certain establishments?
What was the purpose of making such a request by the employee-
operators if there was no service or no benefits to be derived?
Mr. Blatt. Senator, there was so little of taking locations from
each other that it isn't worthwhile talking about. Let me take just
a minute to explain.
Senator Church. Wliy was there so little of this? Do you mean
that the association worked so smoothly that nobody invaded any-
body else's territory ?
Mr. Blatt. No, sir, from the very nature of the business. If op-
erator A takes a spot from operator B, in order to take that location,
he must offer either a bigger commission or a substantial bonus. That
makes the location unprofitable, because if it is a good location, op-
erator B will meet operator A's offers and see to it that the location
is not taken away, and what is more, A would retaliate against B
because every operator is vulnerable.
Senator Church. The process of competition, isn't that what we
think is very laudable in business ?
What makes this process of competition such an insidious thing in
the coin-operated field ?
Mr. Blatt. I didn't say insidious. But I said from the very na-
ture of the business, every operator is vulnerable to the same evil.
Senator Church. Vulnerable to competition ?
Mr. Blatt. Of this kind, yes.
Senator Church. What is wrong with this kind of competition?
What is wrong with offering to various tavern and cafe owners a
better deal ?
Mr. Blatt. Senator, if you knew the facts —
Senator Church. I am learning the facts.
Mr. Blatt. If you are learning the facts, you would know that
every tavern owner plays one operator off against the other. You
will find that the same tavern owner will collect money from two
or three different operators in the same year and make his changes.
There is no such thing today as an operator owning his location.
Every morning he gets up, he has less locations than when he went
to sleep with. The competition is very keen.
Senator Church. It would seem to me that you very well described
the reason for the association and why these arrangements are made.
When I go down to bargain for an automobile, I suppose I am
playing off the Chevrolet dealer as against the Ford dealer to try
to get my price.
That, generally, is regarded as a very good thing in our economy,
because it tends to keep prices down and tends to protect the consumer.
Also, it tends to improve the efficiency of the various dealei's and
their manufacturing concerns.
Now, the purpose of this association, if I understand your reference
to this process as an evil, is to see to it the evil does not spread very
far, and that the members are protected within the association so
as to prevent this competition from taking place.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16659
I think that tliat may be cozy for tlie operatoi^s, but it doesn't
necessarily — I should think it would be hard to be an arrangement
in the public interest.
Mr, Blatt. The lot of the operator, Senator, is not an enviable
one. Let me explain it this way. An operator goes in and signs
a contract with a tavern owner for 2 years. Three or four months
later the tavern is sold. The new owner immediately calls in all of
the merchants, the game operator, the jukebox operator, the cigarette
operators and so forth. ''I am a new man. How much is it worth
to you?"
Even though you have bought a 2-year contract and paid for it,
your location is not yours for 2 years. You go back and sue the
fellow who sold the tavern, if you can find liim. You just don't
find him.
The evil today is on the other shoe.
Senator Church. Do you mean the location owners themselves are
such a menace to the operator that for protection the operator must
necessarily join in an association with other operators so as to pre-
vent this tavern owner or this restaurant owner from being a threat
to him?
Mr, Blait. Unfortunately, the association cannot prevent this.
There are many other things that a trade organization — that people
in an industry get together to form a trade organization.
Senator Church. You see, so frequently in these committee hear-
ings we find out that the rackets that are going on don't involve the
big business organizations that are well able to protect and defend
themselves. No, they involve the little retail owner, the little store-
keeper, the little restaurant owner, the little tavemkeeper, who is not
very able to protect himself.
Here again we have an industry where, typically, the machines
are set out in taverns and restaurants and in small independently
owned and operated businesses.
You say these people are kind of a menace, if this thing were turned
out into the jungle of free enterprise, that they are kind of a menace
to the operator.
If that is so, why aren't these machines simply sold to these people?
Why this lease arrangement or this special "Let's divA^ up the pro-
ceeds'" arrangement and "we retain ownership of these machines and
then we form an association and slice up the city so as to eliminate
cornpetition."
Mr. Blatt. There was no such a thing. Senator, and many store-
keepers owned their own equipment and the reason that more of them
don't buy it is because these are mechanical contrivances that go out
of order, and a jukebox requires records and needles and parts and
service and so forth.
Senator Church. So does my television set.
Mr. Blatt. The fellow who is experienced buys his own equipment
and operates his own equipment and nobody bothers him. There
is no such thing. Senator, in New York, as a territory deal or a protec-
tion racket or anything of that sort, at least none to my knowledge,
and I have represented the game industry for many, many years, I
know, Senator, I have dozens of lawsuits in my office, where we are
suing storekeepers for having taken the money from one operator and
16660 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
thrown him out and taken another operator. I have got dozens of
such lawsuits pending today.
Senator Church. Well, in any case, you have testified that among
the members of your organization there have been those who from
time to time asked the union organization to intervene and to picket
certain establishments. I should think that if that is so, in those
cases it is self-evident that the union served to benefit or confer certain
benefits or the requests would never have been made.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might just say that according
to the testimony of the last witness, the arrangements now with the
union are arrangements with Local 266, of the International Brother-
hood of Teamsters. That is that union that now has the contract
with the association, and that union is run by Mr. Joseph DeGrandis,
who has been arrested some five times, and has been convicted twice,
once for criminally receiving stolen property, and the second time for
violation of the internal revenue laws.
I would like to call Mr. Green.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Green. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MILTON GREEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SAMUEL MEZANSKY AND JOSEPH GODMAN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Green. My name is Milton Green, 2684 Coney Island Avenue,
Brooklyn, N.Y.
The Chairman. What is your business or occupation ?
Mr. Green. I am a coin-machine operator.
The Chairman. A coin-machine operator ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You have coimsel. Counsel, will you identify
yourself ?
Mr. Mezansky. I am appearing for Mr. Green, and my name is
Samuel Mezansky, 350 Fifth Avenue, New York City, and associated
with me is Joseph Godman, 274 Madison Avenue, New York City.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Green, you began in the coin-machine business
in the early thirties ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were in pin games and in slot machines in New
York City when it was legal ?
Mr. Green. Just a few,
Mr. Kennedy. You were in pin games in Newark and Miami also ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Beginning in the 1930's, and at the present time you
have approximately 50 jukeboxes and 70 game machines on location?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You have two employees ; is that right ?
IIVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16661
Mr. Green. Plus my son.
Mr. Kennedy. And your two employees are members of local 1690,
oftheRCIA?
Mr. Green. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. They handle the game route; is that right?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. No ; they handle the jukeboxes.
Mr. Green. Yes, that is right,
Mr. Kennedy. 1690 of the Retail Clerks International ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You are a member of MONY, the association?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The Music Operators of New York ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Your employees pay the union dues and label
assessments, is that right, and then submit the cost of that to you,
and you in turn reimburse them ?
Mr. Green. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you reimburse them for these expenses ; is that
right?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That amounts to about $18 apiece?
Mr. Green. A month ; about 50 cents a day, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. 50 cents a machine, is it ?
Mr. Green. 50 cents per machine, yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And then plus the dues, which is how much?
Mr. Green. $5.50.
Mr. KIennedy. $5.50, that is about $36 for the two of them?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. And they pay the dues, and assessments and then
you reimburse them for that ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You charge that to your expenses and deduct that
as an expense ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. "\Yhen a location is breached, the employees call the
union ?
IMr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What happens? Does the union do anything?
Mr. Green. In most cases it never does anything.
Mr. Kennedy. You were formerly in business with the Jacob
Bros, in a game-jukebox route?
Mr. Green. It was out of town.
Mr. Kennedy. Down in West Virginia ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You sold out to them when you were in business
with them in West Virginia ; is that right ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Now they operate the route in West Virginia at the
present time ; is that right ?
Mr. Green. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Now you are also a member of the Game Associa-
tion, AAMONY?
16662 IMPROPER ACTIYITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Green. No.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been a member ?
Mr. Green. A long time ago.
Mr. Kennedy. Up to 1957 ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. I^nnedy. You withdrew then ?
Mr. Green. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And during 1957, and this becomes the important
part of your testimony, during 1957 AAMONY was looking around
for a union to make a contract with ?
Mr. Green. I guess so.
Mr. Kennedy. You understand that?
Mr. Green. I guess so, yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And the unions being considered were local 19 of the
FSWU, and local 202 of the Teamsters, and local 465 of the CUA,
and local 1690 of the RCIA, and ultimately local 266 of the Team-
sters?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, local 19 was backed by the Jacob
Bros.; is that right?
Mr. Green. What is that ? That I don't know.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Do you remember something about local 19 being
backed by the Jacob Bros., and Sandy Warner who was AAMONY
president casting the vote ?
Mr. Green. I wasn't there.
Mr. Kennedy, Did Warner vote for local 19 ? Did he tell you why
he voted for local 19 and cast the vote in favor of local 19, even
though he was against it ?
Mr. Green. Not at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever tell you why he had to vote in favor of
local 19?
Mr. Green. That is later on in the meeting.
Mr. Kennedy. Later on in the meeting?
Mr. Green. Yes. Not that he had to vote for local 19, but I asked
him why he goes along with those people, and I think at that time it
was 266.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Prior to 266 ? Did he tell you anything about the
fact he was afraid of the Jacob Brothers ?
Mr. Green. Yes, and he said at the time, "I am in too deep and I am
afraid something will happen to me."
Mr. Kennedy. That was at the time for local 266 and local 19 ?
Mr. Green. Local 19 I don't know about.
Mr. Kennedy. It was local 266 of the Teamsters ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, what about Mr. Rosenberg ? Did you have a
conversation with Mr. Rosenberg in connection with this ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlien it was being decided what union you would
join up with?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, that is Mr. Lou Rosenberg?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir."
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you, Lou Rosenberg, and Blatt were going to
oppose the Jacob Brothers and the Teamsters ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16663
Mr, Green. Yes, sir, but that is after.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, let us take it after. We are moving along
quickly.
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, Rosenberg, you, and Blatt were op-
posed to local 266 and local 19 because of local 19 being backed by
the Jacobs ?
Mr. Green. 266 was the union.
Mr. Kennedy. So what happened?
Mr. Green. There was an agreement, 266. Can I tell the story, or
just answer the questions?
Mr. Kennedy. Just tell me about Rosenberg.
Mr. Green. Well, Mr. Rosenberg called me up about 5 o'clock that
evening, when we were going up there to vote if we are going to take
266 in or not. He said, "Be sure you come up there," and in fact he
was supposed to run as president and he was to come up.
I went up there that night, and Lou Rosenberg did not show up that
night, and there were other members at the association that walked
out of the meeting because they were against this 266.
The next day when I spoke to Lou Rosenberg on the phone, he
called me and he said that when he left his house and he was pulling
out, a car pulled alongside of him, and they said to him, "If you go
to the meeting, you won't have no family." It was something on that
order.
Mr. Kennedy. What did Mr. Rosenberg do?
Mr. Green. He said, "I didn't want to take the chance of getting
the family hurt, and I did not go."
Mr. Kennedy. He had some children at the time ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, following the signing of the collective bar-
gaining arrangement with local 266, there was a discussion about put-
ting the association into voluntary bankruptcy ; is that right ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. IvENNEDY. And thereby voiding the contract with the Team-
sters, which you felt was being rrni by these gangsters?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were in favor of that?
Mr. Green. Yes. sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was subsequently defeated, and the rest
of the membership decided to go along with 266 ?
Mr. Green. We were up at that board of directors' meeting, and
they asked, "If we take this vote and it is decided it is not dissolved,
will everybody be satisfied, or will they decide it is dissolved, and will
everybody be satisfied, and anybody that is not satisfied raise their
hand." I raised my hand, thinking if they are not going to dissolve
it, I am not satisfied.
They took the vote and it was decided that it should not be dis-
solved, and I got up and I walked out.
Mr. I^NNEDY. This was primarily because of your opposition to
Teamster Local 266 ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Which you felt was run by gangsters ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
16664 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you came out of the meeting and you went
downstairs ; is that right ?
Mr. Green. Yes, and I went in the elevator, and in the elevator a
fellow by the name of Max Gulden followed me.
Mr. Kennedy. G-u-1-d-e-n?
Mr. Green. I wouldn't know. He was mixed up with Jacobs and
the rest of them. While going down he showed me that he parked his
car outside in the garage, and he said to me, "Where did you park
your car?" and I said, "I didn't come with no car."
I went downstairs and I went over to the Park Sheraton Hotel,
and in that hotel the Automatic Operators were having a meeting.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the Music Operators ?
Mr. Green. Yes, the Music Operators. I attended that meeting
until pretty near the end of the meeting, and before the end of the
meeting there were three boys in the business that lived in my section
and they said they are going home and they had their car, and so I
said I would go along with them.
I went along with them, and I went down the steps, and I saw the
same goon, and he saw me, but he turns his face from me and I
couldn't imagine it, and he walked into a bar there in the hotel, and
I went with these boys home.
Mr. KJENNEDY. What happened when you got home ?
Mr. Green. When I got home ?
Mr. Kennedy. Wliere did they drop you off ?
Mr. Green. They dropped me off at the next corner to my house,
because they lived down the street, and it is a one-way street, and 1
said, "No use driving down there; I will walk over." So they
dropped me over on the corner of my house, and I walked toward my
house, and I saw a car in front of my house and it looked to me as if
it was lovers in the car, because I saw they were bending down.
As I passed the car, and made an entrance to go up my steps, the
door of the car opens and they came out with steel bars and they
split my skull open for me, and I was taken to the hospital.
Mr. Kennedy. How many stitches did you have in your skull ?
Mr. Green. About 25 or 30, with a concussion.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you been ill since that time?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr, Kennedy. You have had trouble since that time?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. This happened when, approximately ; do you know ?
Mr. Green. It was about 7 months ago.
Mr. Kennedy. Had your wife seen some cars outside of your
home?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the circumstances?
Mr. Green. She saw the car start and hang around there, around
8 o'clock, and that was about the time that meeting was over.
Mr. Kennedy. The first meeting?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did the car leave then ?
Mr. Green. And she watched the car and they saw her come out
and they went away. Then she happened to notice the car come
back again toward the evening, and she went out again and my son
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16665
was coming into the house and so she walked in together with him
and she forgot all about watching the car, but she felt something
was wrong.
Mr, Kennedy. Was this Gulden that you have described, was he
a member of the association?
Mr. Green. Of this United Association, and he was one of the
organizers of the United Association which was hooked up with the
Teamsters, 266.
Mr. Kennedy, We will be getting into those two associations to-
morrow, but was he a member of the group that was meeting that
night ^
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He was ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And did he have any words with you other than
the conversation ?
Mr. Green. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. This took place in March of 1958 ; an examination
of the records show that ?
Mr. Green, Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You have had trouble even walking since then,
have you not ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And a great number of other difficulties ?
Mr. Green. Oh, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Since the beating?
Mr. Green. I get headaches all of the time, and I can't see straight.
Mr. Kennedy. And it was all because of your opposition to local
266 of the Teamsters?
Mr. Green. That is my opinion ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. De Grandis?
Mr. Green, Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do you know who hit you ?
Mr. Green, I saw the fellows, but they were young boys, the ones
that hit me.
The Chairman. Had you had trouble with anyone else ?
Mr, Green, No, sir.
The Chairman. You had no disagreement or argument ?
Mr, Green, No, sir.
The Chairman, And do you know of anyone having any ill will to-
ward you ?
Mr. Green. No, sir.
The Chairman, So you can ascribe this incident to nothing except
your position with respect to local 266 ?
Mr. Green. I took it up with the police, and I couldn't understand
anything else.
Senator Church. I have no questions.
Mr. Kennedy. You were a Golden Gloves boxer yourself, were you
not?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When did you box ?
Mr. Green. I boxed in 1928.
Mr. Kennedy. What weight level ?
16666 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Green. 112 pounds.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were runner-up, were you, in the Golden
Gloves championship ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ivennedy. So you know how to take care of yourself ordinarily ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. If someone doesn't hit you with an iron bar on the
back of your head ?
Mr. Green. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Did they say anything to you before they liit you ?
Mr. Green. No, sir.
The Chairman. All right ; thank you very much.
The committee will stand in recess until 10 :30 in the morning.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess : Senators
McClellan and Church. )
(Whereupon, at 4: 20 p.m., the select committee recessed, to recon-
vene at 10 : 30 a.m., Thursday, February 12, 1959.)
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR 3IANAGEMENT FIELD
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1959
U.S. Senate,
Select Committee on Improper AcTI^^TIES
IN THE Labor or Management Field,
Washington^ D.C.
The select committee met at 10 : 30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 44, agreed to February 2, 1959, in the caucus room, Senate Office
Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com-
mittee) presiding.
Present: Senators John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; John
F. Kennedy, Democrat, Massachusetts ; and Frank Church, Democrat,
Idaho.
Also present : Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel ; John P. Constandy,
assistant counsel; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel; Walter K.
May, investigator; Sherman S. Willse, investigator; Walter De
Vauglin, investigator ; and Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Kennedy.)
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, we will proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. We will continue on the New York situation, Mr.
Chairman, and the first witness is Mr. Benjamin Gottlieb.
The Chairman. Mr. Gottlieb, will you come around.
Will you be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear that the e\ddence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BENJAMIN GOTTLIEB, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SAMUEL MEZANSKY AND JOSEPH M. GODMAN
The Chairman. State you name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
ISIr. Gottlieb. Benjamin Gottlieb, residence 545 West End Avenue,
business 4918 Fourth Avenue, Brooklyn. Vending.
The Chairman. What is that?
Mr. Gottlieb. Vending.
The Chairman. You have counsel, Mr. Gottlieb ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
16667
16668 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Mezansky. My name is Samuel Mezansky, 350 Fifth Avenue,
New York City, and my associate is Joseph Godman, 274 Madison
Avenue, New York City.
Tlie Chairman. All right. Thank you very much. We will pro-
ceed.
Mr. I^NNEDY. Mr. Gottlieb, you and your wife are partners in the
Majestic Operating Co. ; is that right ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You have approximately 125 jukeboxes and 250
cigarette machines ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And you employ some six people ?
Mr. Gottlieb, About six.
Mr. Kennedy. And two of the employees that work on jukeboxes
are members of local 1690 of the Retail Clerks ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are a member of MON Y ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the association.
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The net worth of your machines is approximately
between $85,000 and $90,000 ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is about right.
Mr. Kennedy. And if you include the value of the locations, the
worth of the machines would be about $250,000 ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Approximately.
Mr. Kennedy. You gross approximately $400,000 annually?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Gottlieb. That is gross ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. About $85,000 to $90,000 of this is from the juke-
boxes ?
Mr. GoTrLiEB. That is about right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the rest from your cigarette machines ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the important part of your testimony, I want
to get into at the present time, is in connection with your relationship
with a man by the name of Carmine Lombardozzi.
Mr. Gottlieb. I know him.
Mr. Kennedy. And Carmine Lombardozzi attended the meeting
at Apalachin ; were you aware of that ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. In November of 1956, you bought a route out which
was owned by the High Tone Amusement Co. ?
Mr. GoTrLiEB. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Plus another company ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Two companies that were related who owned a
route ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What we mean by route is a number of locations
where boxes are.
Mr. Gottlieb. Locations with equipment ; yes.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16669
Mr. Kennedy. When you buy the route, you get the location and
the equipment ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And in addition to a dozen cigarette machines?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And some eight or nine game machines ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you understand that High Tone was owned
by originally ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Pat Esposito and Daniel Lombardozzi.
Mr. Kjennedy. Did you find out subsequently that there was some-
one else in the company ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, upon the signing of the contract the two prin-
cipals were Pat and JDaniel. Subsequently, and before the actual
signing of the bill of sale, it came to my attention that Daniel had
a brother, Carmine.
Mr. Kjinnedy. Who also had an interest in the company ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Who was also an officer of the corporation.
Mr. Kennedy. He was a third partner ; Carmine ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Carmine, yes ; that is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the figure that we are interested in.
Now, you paid some $43,000 for this route ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Somewhere between $25,000 and $30,000 was in
cash ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Ivennedy. And the rest was in the form of notes and other
equipment ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. In December of 1956 or early in 1957, you lost a
juke box location at Squire's Bar ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Fifth Avenue and 52d Street ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. In Brooklyn ; is that right?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You lost that bar to a man by the name of Phil
Corbisiero ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is C-o-r-b-i-s-i-e-r o ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know anything about Phil Corbisiero ?
Mr. Gottlieb. What I know of him was that he was also known
as "Miami Phil."
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know anything about his police record ?
Mr. Gottlieb. "\Miat is that ?
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know he had racket connections ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I wouldn't know. I never met the man until
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know of his association with people such
as Johnny Bathbeach? Do you know of Miami Phil's underworld
connections at all ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I sensed something, and I didn't know of anything
to be so, actually, but I sensed it.
36T51 — 59— pt. 46—^14
16670 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. You say you sensed such and such ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, when I say I sensed, I recoknized that there
was influence.
The Chairman. In other words, without your having personal
knowledge of it, you believed it to be a fact, from information you
had?
Mr. Gottlieb. No, there was not a fact.
The Chairman. You didn't believe it to be a fact, or did you ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I believed it to be a fact, and I believed it to be a
fact, yes, but I didn't know of any particular incident.
The Chairman. You couldn't swear to it but you believed it to be
true?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
The Chairman. Is that right ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Corbisiero died in November of
1957. He had a funeral in Brooklyn which many of the leaders of the
underworld in Brooklyn attended. Anyway, he took this location
and, Mr. Gottlieb, you then found at the location that there was a
stamp from local 531 on that machine ?
Mr. Gottlieb, That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat did you do ? Did you get in touch with the
head of the association, Mr. Al Denver ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat did he tell you ?
Mr. Gottlieb. He said to try to go down and see the storekeeper, and
see if possibly you can arrange to adjust and also to try and find out
who it was that placed the machine.
Mr, Kennedy. Did he tell you that Miami Phil had been busy taking
other locations as well ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And that they had had some difficulties with him ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. At the same time were several of your other locations
being threatened ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you then decide that you would go and see Mr.
Lombardozzi ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a meeting with Mr. Lombardozzi ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Did I have anything ?
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a meeting with him ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell him about Mr. Corbisiero's activities?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What transpired at that time ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Mr. Lombardozzi arranged that I should meet with
him at a restaurant in the downtown section of Brooklyn, and he
would meet there with Miami Phil.
Mr. Kennedy. So the three of you went down to the restaurant?
Mr. Gottlieb. That was the following day, and that day I met
with Lombardozzi, and Lombardozzi and Mr. Corbisiero had some
IMPROPER ACXmTIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16671
sort of conference and I didn't know the conversation and I didn't
know wliat the conversation was about.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wliat happened then, and what was the result?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, I was told to go ahead, to go home and take
care of the business, and there will be no further trouble.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, during this period of time, had you under-
stood that Mr. Corbisiero's lieutenants were telling the various tavern
owners that they would have no difficulty with local 531, which was
then very active in picketing ?
Mr, Gottlieb. In their solicitation of these locations, that was the
promise that the location owners got from whoever represented 531,
that they would have no fear of any difficulties or troubles or pickets
or whatnot.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the local that at that time was headed by
Mr. Al Cohen, C-o-h-e-n ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. One of the things that were being held out to the
tavern owners was that if they took Corbisiero's boxes, they would
have no more difficulty with local 531 ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the United Industrial Union of America.
It is part of the international known as United Industrial Unions of
America. After this meeting at the tavern, when there was this con-
versation between Corbisiero and Lombardozzi, you then received
that location back, did you, at Squire's Bar?
Mr. Gottlieb. No, I never did get that location back.
Mr. Kennedy. He just said he wouldn't bother you any more?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you later have difficulty with him again, a sec-
ond time ?
Mr. Gottlieb, Yes, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. That was at the Ball Field Tavern?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. On Bedford Avenue and Empire Boulevard, in
Brooklyn ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Ivennedy. Did the owner of the tavern tell you that he would
have to take your box out of there ?
'Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir. We received a phone call from the propri-
etor that we should remove our machine and he would give us a week's
time to do so and other equipment was coming in, and I asked him,
Mr. Valente, why, what happened, and why is he making the change?
And his explanation was that he has no alternative and it is just one
of those things, and certain good people he has to do it for.
Mr. Ivennedy. It wasn't a question of offering better service or a
better deal ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Oh, no.
Mr. KJENNEDY, It was just a question that he had to make this ar-
rangement with these people.
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you understand these people were; from
the conversation, what did you understand about these people?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, what can I say? They were people that he
had to conform with. He had to listen to them.
16672 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand them to be people that had un-
derworld connections ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I would infer that way.
Mr. KENNEDY. So then you went to see Mr. Carmine Lombardozzi
again ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You went to his home, did you ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I phoned him, and he told me to stop in to see him
the following day, and I stopped in there about 10 : 30 the following
day.
There was a telephone call and I asked if he knew the particular
tavern and he didn't know whether he did or not, and he said, "Don't
worry, I will take care of it."
Mr. Kennedy. Was it taken care of then ?
Mr. Gottlieb. It was taken care of.
Mr. Ejennedy. You didn't have to take your machine out?
Mr. Gottlieb. No, sir.
Mr. Ivennedy. Did you feel that maybe your difficulties would be
removed if you met with Al Cohen of local 531, if you had a conversa-
tion with him ?
Mr. Gotilieb. I beg your pardon. I didn't quite get the question.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you feel that maybe the problems would be re-
moved if you met with Al Cohen of local 531 ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, it w^ould have been ^alleviated.
Mr. Kennedy. So did you meet with him. with ]\Ir. Cohen ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Who arranged that meeting ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Who was at the meeting ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Gottlieb. Who arranged the meeting ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Gotit,ieb. Mr. Lombardozzi, at Mr. Lombardozzi's home.
Mr. Kennedy. What was decided at that meeting, or what did you
discuss ?
Mr, Gottlieb. There was nothing decided, but the discussion was
with reference to a location that had been taken at Bath Avenue in
Brooklyn by a sticker identified as 531. In going to the location and
questioning the owner as to who the individual is, the name of Cohen
popped up. In other words, he received a clieck signed by Cohen.
Mr. Kennedy. Was Mr. Cohen at this meeting, and was he inter-
ested in having you buy his stickers from his local ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, at the meeting, when I ran into that difficulty,
I also appealed to Mr. Lombardozzi, what he can do for me. He
said that he woidd contact Cohen and I should call him back and he
will let me know, if he can make an appointment with Cohen to meet
with me. That appointment was made and I met with Cohen a couple
of days after. During that discussion of that particular location he
wasn't cooperative, Mr. Cohen wasn't cooperative in releasing or
tui-ning back the location but as an inducement it was as much as
inferred that if I purchased the stickei*s that I could expect that the
location would be returned.
Mr. Kennedy. Here was the situation where the head of the union
was oll'ering to sell you the stickers of the union so that you could
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16673
place thein on your machines and thereafter you Avouldn't be
bothered '.
Mr. Gottlieb. That is about it.
Mr. Kennedy. There was never any discussion about the benefit^s
for any employees or workers ?
Mr. Gottlieb. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. It was just a question of buying the stickers from
his union?
Mr. Gottlieb. Of obtaining stickers.
Mr. Kennedy. So you would have protection ?
Mr. Gottlieb. AVell, that is about it.
Mr. Kennedy. Now. what was tlie relationship between Mr. Lom-
bardozzi and Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Gottlieb. 1 beg your pardon, sir.
(The witness conferred with his comisel.)
Air. Gottlieb. The relationship other than friendly, I wouldn't
know.
Mr. Ivennedy. They were friendly ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you agree at the meeting to buy the stickers?
Mr. Gottlieb. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, I have just one other matter not directly re-
lated to Mr. Lombardozzi, but you had another situation in May or
June of 1958 in connection with the change of the ownership of a
bar and grill on Fourth Avenue in Brooklyn ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. You had the jukebox in that location ; is that right ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And there was a sale of the tavern ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you approached and told that your jukebox
would have to be removed ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I was.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate what happened in connection with
that?
Mr. Gottlieb. A tavern owner in the immediate area came in one
day and introduced himself as Augie, who operates Angle's Tavern,
and he presented a card, a business card, with Ernie's Music Co., and
told me that he had an order to set a machine at the bar of Connaught.
I didn't know that there was a change of ownership and I was taken
aback by the fact that these people claimed that they had an order.
I knew that I had a contract with Connaught. I inquired from
Augie as to who this Ernie is, and I had never heard of him as being
in the business.
Mr. Kennedy. Ernie of Ernie's Music Service %
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the one who was going to take it away from
you, supposedly ?
Mr. Gottlieb. The one that represented the music company and he
was identified as that. I asked who this Ernie was, and I don't recall
ever hearing of Ernie or of Ernie's Music Co.
Well, he said, "I will bring him in and you can meet him." So I
said, "What is involved here?"
16674 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
He said, "Well, for $250 I think that I can get Ernie and make a
compromise."
Mr. Kennedy. So did he bring Ernie in to see you ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes ; a couple of days later, Ernie came in.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you pay Ernie ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I didn't pay Ernie, and I paid Augie. I didn't pay
that at that time. I still stalled for time.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did you finally pay ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I finally gave it to Augie.
Mr. Kennedy. That was your friend.
Mr. Gottlieb. $150.
Mr. Kennedy. For Ernie, too ?
Mr. Gottlieb. To be split, as I understood it.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you identify Ernie ?
The Chairman. The Ernie you have been talking about, that is
Ernie Rupolo ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, I think that was the name. I believe that is
the name.
The Chairman. I hand you a photograph here and ask you to exam-
ine it and state if you identify it.
(A photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, that is it.
The Chairman. Is that a picture of the Ernie you have been talking
about ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes.
The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 13.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 13" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Counsel, do you want this record
put in also ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes, I would like to do that.
The Chairman. Who can identify the record ?
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Corrigan.
The Chairman. Have you been previously sworn ?
Mr. Corrigan. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH CORRIGAN— Resumed
The Chairman. You may identify this. I present to you what
purports to be a police record of one Ernie Rupolo. Would you
examine it and state if you identify it.
Mr. Corrigan. Yes, sir. This is the prisoner's criminal record.
New York City Police Department. It is a criminal record of Ernest
Rupolo, alias "Ernie the Hawk."
The Chairman. Did you know him as "Ernie the Hawk"?
Mr. Gottlieb. I have heard it within the last month or two.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 13A.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 13A" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. What are the convictions on it ?
Mr. Corrigan. There are seven arrests, convictions are for petty
larceny, burglary, vagrancy, felonious assault in the tii-st degree, an
assault involving a gun.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16675
The Chairman. What was the longest sentence that he received;
some 5 to 10 year's, wasn't it ?
Mr, Kennedy. I believe 5 to 10 years.
Mr, Chairman, we have had considerable amount of testimony
regarding Ernie Rupolo, and he was involved in our earlier hearings
as the gunman for Mike Miranda, and for Vito Genovese to kill a
man by the name of Gallo, and he put the gun to Gallo's head and
the gun didn't go off and he went in and fixed the gun in his home
and then he came out the second time and put the gun to Gallo's
head and shot him five times in the head.
Mr. Gallo lived, and then ultimately Mr. Genovese was indicted
and was to be tried in connection with this case, after he was brought
back from Italy, and the key witness who was being kept in police
custody in jail, the key witness was poisoned to death so the trial
wasn't able to go ahead.
This picture, you can see, Mr. Rupolo here in the picture, just
before this picture was taken, had been shot in the eye, right under
the nose, and in the chin. He is rather a notorious character.
Mr. Gottlieb, did you ultimately talk to the attendant at the bar, the
new bar owner, as to that ?
TESTIMONY OF BENJAMIN GOTTLIEB, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SAMUEL MEZANSKY AND JOSEPH M. GODMAN— Resumed
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, I did. I decided that I would go in and find
out who the new people that took over the bar were, and I fomid two
very pleasant young men who had purchased the bar.
Mr. Kennedy, And they said they had no intention of turning the
business over to Rupolo ?
Mr. Gottlieb. I expected that they would possibly tell me that
so-and-so OK'd me, or something. But they never raised that ques-
tion, and I didn't question them as to what connection they had with
Augie or Ernie. So I just let it go at that. I found that they were
reasonable, pleasant, and didn't disturb me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you think you might have just been taken for
$150?
Mr. Gottlieb. I think I might have been taken,
Mr. Kennedy. Formerly you paid the label fees and the union dues
to Local 1690 of the Retail Clerks; is that right? You paid them
directly ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Lately you have increased the salaries of your em-
ployees and had them pay it ?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Both the label fees and the dues; is that right?
Mr. Gottlieb. That is right.
Mr, Kennedy, In passing also — and we will have more testimony
about it at a later time — you also had difficulty with local 19, did you
not?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Mr, Kennedy, And that was also a union that was run by people
with questionable records, as you understood it ?
Mr, Gottlieb, I believe so.
16676 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
Senator Kennedy. Mr. Chairman
The Chairman. Senator Kennedy ?
Senator Kennedy. As I understand, Mr. Gottlieb, the net worth
of your equipment is approximately $85,000 to $90,000 ?
Mr. Gottlieb. The net worth ?
Senator Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Gottlieb. Book value.
Senator Kennedy. Book value. As I understand it, if you included
the value of the locations which you have been able to develop, it
would bring the figure up to around $250,000.
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, you don't know until you make a deal.
Senator Kennedy. Approximately. In other words, it indicates
the value of these locations and the amount of money that is involved
in attempting to maintain your locations. How many locations did
you have ?
Mr. Gottlieb, In music, about 125; and in cigarette machines,
approximately 250.
Senator Kennedy. So that is 375. That was 375 which would rep-
resent the difference between $85,000 and $250,000. It would indicate
that those are worth more than $1,000 each, averaging it out.
Mr. Gottlieb. Well, it probably wouldn't average out quite that
much. But there are other factors involved. There is bonuses in-
volved; there is advances; loans involved in that whole picture. It
would bring it up to about that much.
Senator Kennedy. It indicates, however, what is at stake, and the
pressures that would be brought to bear for a $1,000 location or a
location which is worth more or less than $1,000; is that right?
It indicates there is a great interest in maintaining these locations, and
that there is a good deal at stake and pressures involved between the
competing operators in maintaining one location as opposed to an-
other ; is that right ?
Mr. Gottlieb. Yes, sir.
Senator Kennedy. I would like to ask you or your attorney why it
was that in the case where a picket line might be established around a
location in order to force out your machines, or force you to buy
stickers, why it was that the secondary-boycott provisions of the Taft-
Hartley Act could not have been invoked against such a picket line ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Gottlieb. I am sorry. Senator; I just didn't get the question.
Senator Kennedy. Does the counsel wish to comment on that ?
Mr. Mezansky. We obtained an injunction in the State court. The
contention was that this was not
Senator Kennedy. Was this intrastate or "no man's land"?
Mr. Mezansky. We did get an injunction against the picket line
eventually.
Senator Kennedy. Is there any reason why in all of these cases
where a genuine labor dispute was not involved and it was merely
an attempt to use a picket line for the purpose of a secondary boycott —
which it was — is there any reason to believe that the State courts would
not have issued an injunction if the operators or the owner of the
installations had been willing to take a suit to the State court ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16677
Mr. Mezansky. Well, there is a line of cases that always confront
us. These unions contend that they are picketing for organizational
purposes. In other words, the sign that these pickets carry states that
the machine in that particular location is not serviced by a member
of that particular union ; so we are always faced with the contention
that that sign is an expression of free speech, and it is educational
picketing, and that the picketing was solely for organizational pur-
poses.
Senator Kennedy. The picketing was not against the employer, but
against the machine ?
Mr. Mezansky. Yes.
Senator Kennedy. If this had been in interstate commerce, I will
ask you, why wouldn't the provisions of the Taft-Hartley be involved,
which clearly says forcing or requiring any employer or self-employed
person. This would be —
to engage in, or induce or encourage the employees of any employer to engage in,
a strike or a concerted refusal in the course of their employment to use, manu-
facture, process, transport, or otherwise handle or work on any goods, articles,
materials, or commodities, or to perform any services where an object thereof is
(a) forcing or requiring any employer or self-employed person to join any labor
or emploj'er organization, or any employer or other person to cease using, selling,
handling, transporting, or otherwise dealing in the products of any other producer,
processor, or manufacturer, or to cease doing business with any other person.
It seems to me from the cases I have heard described, if they were
in interstate commerce and within our competence, a secondary boy-
cott would be involved. What is your judgment ?
Mr. Mezansky. I believe you are correct. As a matter of fact, that
was the basis for the injunctions issued by the State court under the
New York law, which is similar to the Norris-LaGuardia Act.
Senator Ivennedy. It seems to me if the operators or owners of the
installations were willing, were not afraid of other pressures, more
physical than a picket line, were willing to take these cases to court,
that I don't know of any court that would refuse an injunction in the
cases as I have heard them described today and the ones I have read of
yesterday, because there isn't a labor dispute.
The picket line is a fraud. No matter how they may cover it up by
the signs on the pickets, that they are carrying; it is quite obvious what
this operation is. I would think that you would be successful unless
there is some stringent provision in the New York law in getting an
injunction.
Mr. IVIezansky. We were successful. We did obtain an injunction
against local 531 and against local 19. But there is a practical diffi-
culty.
First of all, we cannot locate these unions. For instance, local 19
had no address. We couldn't find where the officers were located. We
couldn't serve them with process. The pickets would go to a store
owner and would try to intimidate the store owner or in some instances
one of the men behind the union, local 19, Amalfitano, would simply
make an appearance at the location and the machine would immedi-
ately be turned around or disconnected.
We couldn't locate Mr. Amalfitano for quite some period of time, nor
could we locate any other official. Under the New York law, in order
to sue an unincorporated association, you must serve either the presi-
dent or the treasurer. I have been advocating some law in New York
16678 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
requiring labor unions to register as the corporations are required to
do ; that is, we can sue a corporation by serving process on the secretary
of state. There is no such law in respect to laoor unions.
These paper unions, they simply have no address nor a telephone,
and we can't find them. By the time we are able to get out our injunc-
tion papers and serve them, the machines have been disconnected and
other machines installed.
Senator Kennedy. In the legislation which Senator McClellan is
interested in, that I have been interested in, I don't think there is any
doubt that every union in interstate commerce would have to be so
registered. There might be another word usedj but they would have to
report to the Secretary of Labor.
Obviously, of course, as you say, the use of a union in order to enforce
a racketeer's demands should be done away with. But I would think
that it would indicate some necessity for the State of New York to
consider this experience, as we are considering it on the national level.
It seems to me that if it were in interstate commerce, not in "no
man's land," but in interstate commerce, you could have an appeal
brought to the Board, in the case of a secondary boycott, or I would
think that you might be able to get some action, if the interstate com-
merce were affected, where it seems to me that the Department of
Justice, in a conspiracy between one operator and a union, or you might
have to have two operators in order to meet the provisions of the anti-
trust law, that you can get action by the Department of Justice on
restraint of trade, if it were in interstate commerce.
It is difficult, of course, for us to deal with intrastate, but I think it
indicates quite clearly the fact that New York is going to have to
consider what action it can take in order to meet the intrastate problem.
Mr. Mezansky. I think the provisions you spoke about are very im-
portant, and we do hope that legislation of that sort is enacted. As
I say, there are these practical difficulties.
I was just wondering, even under the Taft-Hartley law, you still
have those lines of decisions about educational picketing and organi-
zational picketing. The contention of a union in those particular
cases is that they are not trying to force or compel any boycott, or
compel any unfair labor practice, but they are merely advertising as a
matter of free speech, they are advertising that the standards of em-
ployment in respect to that particular machine are lower than the
standards of the particular union that is doing the picketing.
Senator Kennedy. I know it is difficult to look behind the signs
always for a National Labor Relations Board, but I would think in
the case of the union described, in the absence of a legitimate labor
dispute, I would think it would be possible to get action by the Board.
I think it is certainly being examined. I would think that the third
remedy, of course, is the State courts.
In fact, you did get an injunction regardless of whether the New
York State law was adequate or not. In other words, I would think
that most of the courts would give you some protection against the
misuse of a union by racketeers for the purposes of, really, extortion.
Mr. Mezansky. You take the case of local 19. We obtained an
injunction there at the very end of the trial, and the judge made some
very serious and very important findings. He was going to hold some
of the defendants for the grand jury. But even before he signed the
IMPROPER ACTWITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16679
formal injunction document, tlio final judgment, local 266 come into
the picture, of the Teamsters Union.
In other words, the attorney for local 19 in that particular case, the
next day announced that he became an attorney for a new association
known as the United Game Operators, I believe, and that association
immediately entered into a contract with local 266 of the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters.
So no sooner do we get an injunction against one union than another
union starts picketing.
Senator Kennedy. What is your suggestion for that ?
Mr. Mezansky. Well, I do think that a very comprehensive labor
law which would require registration of these unions as corporations —
I don't think unions are being picked on when there is such a require-
ment. I mean, corporations are subjected to registration, or you can
serve the secretary of state.
There should be a report on the officers, complete reports as to the
whole union setup and the membership file, and so forth.
Senator Kennedy. In conclusion, it seems to me that with the evi-
dence that has been given as to the organization of this miion, and
the fact that there were self-employed people in it, other people who
were not even aware of it, that they w^ere not receivincr any benefits
or paying any dues, that it was sort of a sticker-sale business, with
the picket line to put force behind the sale, I would think that the
courts would give some protection.
But I agree that that is probably not sufficient. It would seem to
me in these cases of intrastate commerce, as in the case in New York,
I am sure that the people in New York are watching these hearings
and are going to be concerned about the misuse of the picket lines as
we are down here.
The Chairman. Do you think unions that engage in such practices
should be entitled to tax-exempt privileges?
Mr. Mezansky. No ; of coui-se not.
The Chairman. Neither do I.
All right; call the next witness.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Kennedy. Lt. James Mooney,
The Chairman. Lieutenant Mooney, you do solemnly swear the
evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Lieutenant Mooney. I do.
TESTIMONY OP LIEUTENANT JAMES S. MOONEY
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation, please, sir.
Lieutenant Mooney. My name is James S. Mooney. I am a lieu-
tenant in the New York City Police Department, assigned to the crimi-
nal intelligence squad.
The Chairman. How long have you been a member of the police
department ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Thirteen years.
The Chairman. How long have been a member of this squad ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Criminal intelligence squad? A year and a
half.
16680 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. All right.
Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. For a period of time you have been assigned to help
and assist this committee ; is that correct ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. For how long have you been with us?
Lieutenant Mooney. Since last May.
Mr. Kennedy. And you had three other members of the New York
Police Department with you ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir. I have three detectives with me.
Mr. Kennedy. As you know, Mr. Chairman, that was through Po-
lice Commissioner Kennedy, who allowed these four police officers to
come to work with the committee during this period of time.
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Lieutenant, you have some information, do you not,
in connection with the situation that occurred at Apalachin, N.Y., in
November of 1957 ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, I do.
Mr. Kennedy. And that is directly involved, is it not, with the
hearings we are conducting at the present time ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Mr. I^NNEDY. And directly involves an individual who has been
mentioned in the previous testimony, Mr. Carmine Lombardozzi.
Lieutenant, do you have a statement that you can read in connec-
tion with that ?
Lieutenant Mooney. I have, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. In connection with the meeting at Apalachin ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes ; I have.
Mr. Kennedy. Can he go ahead with that, Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman. The statement was submitted ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. It is just a statement as to the factual infor-
mation that has been developed in connection with the meeting at
Apalachin.
The Chairman. All right. You may proceed to read the state-
ment.
Lieutenant Mooney (reading) :
The New York City Police Department is in possession of some information
concerning the meeting of the notorious individuals who gathered at the home
of Joseph Barbara at Apalachin, N.Y., on November 14, 1957.
The information indicates that the following took place : One of those individ-
uals influential in the jukebox field was called to account for his activity. This
person was previously scheduled to be killed, but instead his situation was con-
sidered by a council made up of certain of the higher ranking individuals pres-
ent at Apalachin.
The offender was not allowed to be present or to i>articipate in the hearing,
but was required to remain in Barbara's garage to await the verdict. The
council decided to fine the offender $10,000. Our present information indicates
that the offender was Carmine Lombardozzi.
Mr. Kennedy. This is information, Lieutenant, that comes from a
very reliable source?
Lieutenant Mooney. From a confidential source ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And a reliable source?
Lieutenant Mooney. Reliable, too.
Mr. Kennedy. Will you give us the background of Mr. Carmine
Lombardozzi, and any information that you have on him ?
IIVIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16681
Lieutenant MooNEY (reading) :
Carmine Lombardozzi, with aliases of Alberto Lombardozzi, Carmine Lavigna,
Al and Blackie, is known to the New York City Police Department under "B"
No. 82584, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation No. 290860. He is 45 years
old. He was born on February 18, 1913. He presently resides at 114 Stratford
Road, Brooklyn, N.Y.
His criminal record shows 21 arrests, including vehicle homicide, disorderly
conduct, dangerous weapon, with a pool cue, bookmaking, vagrancy, and being
AWOL from the U.S. Army. He was convicted 13 times, twice for disorderly
conduct, four times for bookmaking, once for being a common gambler ; a
charge of rape and abduction, which was reduced to disorderly conduct ; and a
charge of burglary, which was reduced to unlawful entry.
The files of the New York City Police Department show that he was a book-
maker and loan shark until 1952, at which time he assumed the greater domi-
nance in the underworld, continuing his activity, however, as a money lender or
shylock.
His legitimate employment since 1929 has been as a laborer, mechanic, long-
shoreman, stevedore, a builder and contractor. His known associates include
Albert and Anthony Anastasia, Mike Miranda, and Paul Castellano, who were
both present at Apalachin ; Gus Frasca ; Sabato Muro, also known as Little
Mitsky ; and George Smurra.
Mr. Kennedy. Spell those names. C-a-s-t-e-1-l-a-n-o ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Gus Frasca?
Lieutenant Mooney. F-r-a-s-c-a.
Mr. Kennedy. Sabato ?
Lieutenant Mooney. M-u-r-o.
Mr. Kennedy. George ?
Lieutenant Mooney. S-m-u-r-r-a.
Mr. Kennedy. Who are they ?
Lieutenant Mooney. They are all known criminals in the city of
New York.
Mr. Kennedy. Go ahead.
Lieutenant Mooney (reading) :
Lombardozzi attended the Apalachin meeting on November 14, 1957, and he
traveled to Joseph Barbara's home with Natale Evola, Joseph Iliccobono, and
Frank Cucchiara. He stayed overnight with them at the Dell Motel. When
questioned by the New York City Police Department, Lombardozzi stated that
he is the president of the Superior Tube Corp., in Brooklyn, N.Y., which company
tests television tubes. He owns the Mec Platers in New York City, which plates
brass and copper, and Sabato Muro is the president of this firm.
He is also interested in the Monti Marine Corp., which does ship repairing.
Lombardozzi stated at the time of the interview that he promotes good will for
the company with shipowners, labor unions, and personnel.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he state also that he does some public relations
and labor relations work for some ship company ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, he did.
Mr. Kennedy. Continue, please.
Lieutenant Mooney. He also stated that he owns an interest in the
Mobile Marine Power & Equipment Co., which owns one piece of
equipment which is a portable generator, and leases it to Monti Marine
for $750 a week.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, that is of some significance, obviously.
He not only owns or has owned a small percentage of Monti Marine,
but Monti Marine in turn does much of the work on the large ships
that come into the New York City area.
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, it does.
16682 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. He owns the Mobile Marine Power & Equipment
Co., which has one piece of equipment ; is that right ?
Lieutenant Mooney. One generator.
Mr. Kennedy. And that generator is used by the Monti Marine Co.,
and he is paid how much for the use of that generator ?
Lieutenant Mooney. He is paid $750 per week.
Mr. Kennedy. The only thing that that company provides is the
use of one generator ; is that correct ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he has described himself as an individual who
settles labor difficulties for some of the ship companies ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes ; he does.
Mr. Kennedy. And also for doing any public relations work that
might be necessary for some of the ship companies with whom Monti
Marine has a contract ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you explain a little bit the kind of work that
Monti Marine does ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Monti Marine, when a ship is pulled into the
yards in Brooklyn or in Manhattan, they will go aboard and they will
scrape it down, clean it up, and this piece of equipment that Lombar-
dozzi has, he rents to this Monti Marine Corp.
The Chairman. What is the value of that piece of equipment ?
Lieutenant Mooney. I believe. Senator, it was bought originally for
$10,000.
The Chairman. $10,000. What is the cost of operating it ? I mean,
who pays the cost of operating it? Is this just rent for it and then the
person who rents it, or the corporation who rents it, pays the cost of
operation, or does the $750 per week include the cost of operating?
Lieutenant Mooney. When he made this statement to the police de-
partment, he said that he realized $750 per week out of it.
The Chairman. Out of a $10,000 piece of equipment, he gets $750
per week ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What are the other considerations involved ; do you
know ?
Lieutenant Mooney. I think it is promoting good will with labor
unions.
The Chairman. Promoting good will means, "If you get along with
us you won't get your head crushed in" ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is that what it means ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is that the kind of good will you are talking about ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Protection. Protection from injury and damage to
property.
Lieutenant Mooney. "We will get the men to work."
The Chairman. Very well. Proceed.
First, I would like to ask you one question before we get entirely
away from it. You say this Lombardozzi was fined $10,000 instead of
being ordered killed?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16683
The Chairman. That was up at the Apalachin meeting?
Lieutenant Mooxey. That is the information we have.
The Chairman. Where does this $10,000 line go 'i Who gets that
money ? He was fined $10,000, you saicl. \^''ho fined him and where
did the money go?
Lieutenant Mooxey. Senator, I believe if we knew that answer we
would have the whole story at Apalachin, which we don't.
The Chairman. That is the mystery about it ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Presumably it goes into some central fund that is
controlled by the higher-ups in the underworld ?
Lieutenant Mooxey. I believe it does.
Mr. Kex'nedy. We understand, do we not, that Mr. Lombardozzi
does not work directly for Monti Marine since 1957 or early 1958 ?
Lieutenant Mouney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That his connections with Monti Marine have been
ended. We also have the information which was supplied to us by
the Grace Lines that tliey had loaned Monti Marine some $400,000 at
tlie time Monti INIarine was in some difficulty ?
Lieutenant Mooxey. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kexxedy. And all but some $108,000 of that has been repaid?
Lieutenant Mooxey. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kexxedy. What else do we know about jNIr. Lombardozzi?
Lieutenant Moox^EY (reading) :
Lombardozzi also stated he had an interest in a factoring company whicli
loaned money to other companies and wlien Monti Marine secured a contract
for work on the carrier Saratoga, this factoring company loaned money to sub-
contractors doing work on the carrier.
He has been a familiar figure on the New York waterfront for years, having
been a hiring boss at the Army pier in Brooklyn when Albert Anastasia con-
trolled it. During a maintenance strike on the waterfront, Lombardozzi is re-
ported to have joined Buster Bell, who is a leader of a New York maintenance
local, ,Joe Colazzo, who is the leader of a Brooklyn maintenance local, and
Anthony "Tough Tony" Anastasia, in settlement of the strike.
It is not known who Lombardozzi represented at this meeting.
]\f r. Kexxedy, That strike was settled ?
Lieut.enant jSIooxey. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kexx'edy. What date was that?
Lieutenant Mooxey. I don't have the exact date, Mr. Kennedy, with
me.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it 1955 ?
Lieutenant Mooxey. 1955, 1 believe.
Mr. Kexxedy. And it was a major problem at that time, the strike ?
Lieutenant Mooxey. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kexxedy. And this meeting, this group that got together, was
able to settle the strike ?
Lieutenant Mooxey. They settled it.
Mr. Kexxedy. And Mr. Lombardozzi attended the meeting?
Lieutenant Mooxey. Yes, sir; and that is the mystery of why he was
there. Nobody knows. Then on November 10,' 1958, Lomb^ardozzi,
with seven others, agreed to accept a NeAv York Supreme Court in-
junction barring them from stock trading in New York.
New York Attorney General Louis Lefkowitz stated that under-
world elements had attempted to infiltriite the security businesses when
that iniunction was handed down.
16684 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, the witness spoke of Mr, Lombar-
dozzi being tried in an Anny court-martial. We have the informa-
tion on that. He went AWOL on January 4, 1944. He was appre-
hended in Brooklyn, N.Y., by the military police. On August 5, 1944,
he was tried by a special court-martial in Louisiana. In August 1944,
the same month, he was sentenced to 6 months at hard labor and
forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay and allowances. He was dis-
charged on November 6, 1944, for "ineptness, inability to adapt, and
general misconduct." He was described as being extremely high
strung, hot tempered, undependable, a clironic drinker, and a user of
marihuana.
We also have information, do we not, Lieutenant, that immediately
following the meeting at Apalachin, that Mr. Lombardozzi made cer-
tain withdrawals from his bank account ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have those figures here ?
Lieutenant Mooney. I don't have the figures, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. We have another witness.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. CoFiNi. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT J. COFINI
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
present employment.
Mr. CoFiNi. My name is Robert J. Cofini. I reside in "White Plains,
N.Y. I am employed by the U.S. General Accounting Office, and I
have been assigned to this committee for the past 2 years.
The Chairman. How long have you been employed in the Account-
ing Office, and in what capacity ?
Mr. CoFiNi. Three years in the capacity of supervisory accountant.
Mr. Kennedy. How long have you been with this committee ?
Mr. CoFiNi. Two years.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr, Lombardozzi does most of his dealings, or a con-
siderable amount of his dealings, in cash, as we know. But he did
maintain a bank account, did he not ?
Mr. Cofini. Yes, he did,
Mr. Kennedy. At the Manufacturers Trust Co. in Brooklyn, N.Y.
Mr. Cofini, That is right,
Mr, Kennedy, Did you make an examination of the bank account
from September 1, 1957, to February 28, 1958 ?
Mr, Cofini, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you come upon certain substantial withdrawals
in that account ?
Mr. Cofini. Yes, I did,
Mr, Kennedy, Would you relate it to the committee ?
Mr, Cofini, On November 6, 1957, a check cleared the account in the
amount of $2,171, On December 2, 1957, three checks cleared the
account in the amounts of $2,000, $2,000, and $1,000.
Mr. Kennedy. All on the same day ?
Mr. Cofini. All on the same day ; that is correct.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16685
Mr. Kennedy. Were we able to locate those checks ?
Mr. CoFiNi. No. The Manufacturers Trust Co. does not keep a
Recordak of the checks, and therefore they were unable to disclose
exactly who the payees were on these checks.
Mr. Kennedy. Hut there were the three withdrawals, all on Decem-
ber 2, 1957, totaling $5,000.
Mr. CoriNi. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was approximately 2 weeks after the meet-
ing at Apalachin?
Air. CoFiNi. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this has been the first time that any
reliable information has been disclosed as to what was discussed at
the meeting at Apalachin. It shows once again the importance that
this coin machine business is to the major racketeers and gangsters
in the United States which is, of course, the reason and purpose of
this hearing, but because it shows also the relationship between the
gangsters and hoodlums and their use of labor unions in order to
enforce their wishes in the industry.
The Chairman. Lieutenant Mooney, what was Lombardozzi
charged with or tried for before his underworld lords?
Lieutenant Mooney. What was the crime, Senator ?
The Chairman. What was the crime? What was he charged with?
Lieutenant Mooney. The information we had related to the juke
box industry.
The CiiAiR>rAN. So he was tried on some offense in connection with
the juke box industry ? ^^^
Lieutenant Moonkv. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You don't know the nature of the charge or what
the charge was, exactly ?
Lieutenant Mooney. No, sir.
The Chairman. Or what code he is supposed to have violated ?
Lieutenant Mooney. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The lieutenant is limited in the information that
can be disclosed at this time to the information that was given in the
prepared statement.
The Chairman. You may have other information that you can't
disclose, is that what I am to understand?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Very well.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Senator Kennedy?
Senator Kennedy. The description you gave of the payments for
the use of the generator and so on, how old would that generator be?
Lieutenant Mooney. I believe it was a secondhand generator when
it was bought. Senator.
Senator 10:nnedy. He bought it for $10,000 or was it $10,000 when
new?
Lieutenant Mooney. I don't have the facts available right now. I
do have them.
Mr. Kennedy. It was Army surplus.
Senator Kennedy. He bought it originally listed at $10,000 ?
Mr. Kennedy. We don't have that information.
Senator Kennedy. How long ago was that ?
36751— 59— pt. 46 15
16686 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr, Kennedy. He purchased it from Army surplus.
Senator Kennedy. If it was World War II, the Korean war would
be 5 years old, so the value of it must be now certainly not more than
$3,000 or $4,000, if it was $10,000, even assuming it was new. Yet
he gets $700 or $800 a week for the use of this generator ?
Lieutenant MooNEY. The rental.
Senator Kennedy. It is obvious that this is payment by companies
to get money to him so that he can pay off the union people involved.
Is that quite obvious ?
Lieutenant Mooney, On the surface that is the way it appears,
Senator.
Senator Kennedy. I can't think of any other explanation. So Mr.
Lombardozzi's guilt is acknowledged by his own record, and the com-
pany and union people involved on the waterfront are equally to be
condemned ; is that correct ?
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
Senator Kennedy. This is just a front and a fraud in using this
beat-up generator in order to get $700 a week when the generator
itself isn't probably worth more than $3,000 or $4,000 today.
Lieutenant Mooney. That is right.
Senator Kennedy. This is their way of protecting themselves in
case of investigation so that they would be able to explain the dis-
bursements of money by the company to him, but it is a fraudulent
front, isn't it ?
Lieutenant Mooney. I think it is, Senator ; yes, sir.
Senator Kennedy. Well, it would seem to me that the companies
that engage in that practice, as well as, of course, the union people
who are involved, and their tieups with a man of his character and
numerous times he has been arrested, and so on, I would think repre-
sents a shocking breach of the law and the procedures which should
govern normal labor-management relations.
Lieutenant Mooney. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is there anything further, Mr. Counsel?
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Lieutenant Mooney, and Mr. Cofini.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might say that Mr. Lombardozzi
at the present time is in jail for contempt of a State body in New
York, which was looking into the activities at Apalachin, that is,
the New York State Commission of Investigation.
The next w^itness is Mr. Eli Kasper.
Tlie Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kasper. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ELI KASPER
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kasper, will you give us your name,
your address, and your business or occupation, please.
Mr. Kasper. Eli Kasper, I reside at 182 Gerard Street, in Brooklyn,
presently employed by the National Novelty Co. in Long Island.
The Chairman. You waive counsel, do you, Mr, Kasper?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, I do.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16687
Mr. Kennedy. You are a jobber of games ; is that right?
Mr. ELvspER. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Of jukeboxes and a route operator?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat is a jobber of games ?
Mr. Kasper. Selling equipment such as music machines and amuse-
ment machines.
Mr. Kennedy. And you have 115 jukes and 75 games?
Mr. Kasper. Approximately.
The Chairman. You sell all three machines?
Mr. IvASPER. Just two.
The Ctiairman. Amusement machines, and music machines and tho
vending machine ?
Mr. Kasper. No, sir.
The Chairman. You don't sell vending machines ?
Mr. Kasper. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. As far as your past, you were a calculator on west
coast racetracks, a sheet writer on New York racetracks prior to pari-
mutuel, and a captain at the BrowTi Derby and Sardi's, waiter at the
Stork Club, and a building supervisor of construction ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. In January of 1955, you were hired by the associa-
tion, AAMONY?
Mr. Kasper. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. To survey locations ; is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And determine locations, which ones were owned
by the members and which by nonmembers ?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. One of the purposes was to determine who was pay-
ing dues ; is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. In addition to solicit those who weren't members.
Mr. Kennedy. Later on you worked in the office of the association.
Mr. Kasper. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. During 1954 and 1955, local 465 in New York City,
and local 433 in Nassau and Suffolk Counties were having an organi-
zational clash ; is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
Mr. E^ennedy. Did it ultimately end in a merger between the two
locals?
Mr. Kasper. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. Which became local 433 ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. How did that come about ?
Mr. Ivasper. They were picketing each other's locations, that is,
local 433 was sending pickets to members of 465, and 465 retaliated by
sending pickets to members of 433.
Mr. Kennedy. 433 was RCIA, the Retail Clerks?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Who brought about the merger of the two unions?
Mr. Kasper. Mr. Blatt, then the attorney for AAI^IONY.
Mr. Kennedy. The association itself brought about the merger ; is
that rifflit ?
16688 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, when a complaint was made to AAMONY by
an operator that his location was jumped by anotlier association, what
would the association try to do?
Mr. Kasper. If the complaint was sent into the association before
the operator lost his location, we would make an attempt to bring
about a settlement between the location owner and the operator, and
if that failed and tlie equipment was removed and replaced by a non-
member, at that time then it would be the problem of the union and
not of the association.
Mr. Kennedy. What would you do? What would you do as far
as tlie un ion was concerned ?
Mr. Kasper. As far as we are concerned, we rarely contacted the
union, and we also instructed the members to contact the union di-
rectly, because at first we did contact the union and we were told to
notify the member to contact them personally.
Mr. Kennedy. The member would contact the union and the union
would then send out a picket line ?
Mr. Kasper. Not always.
Mr. Kennedy. It was the purpose of contacting?
Mr. Kasper. That was the purpose.
Mr. Kennedy. To picket the location where this other individual
had come in and taken the location?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The union members acted upon the instructions of
the association ?
Mr, Kasper. If I understand you clearly, Senator, at first we would
notify the union.
The Chairman. That is, the association would ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes.
The Chairman. Would notify the union ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir; and at some early date thereafter we were
instructed to notify the members when they sent their complaints in,
to notify the union directly instead of coming in from us.
The Chairman. The association then worked through the members?
Mr. Kaspi:r. I don't quite understand the question.
The Chairman. Well, instead of the association making the com-
plaint directly to the union, you were instructed to get your complaint
in through the members of the union ?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
The Chairman. That is the way you operated ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. If one member of the association took another mem-
ber's location and this could not be settled within the association, then
would the one who had acted improperly, would he be expelled from
the association?
Mr. Kasper. Invariably, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Would that automatically mean that the union would
then bo notified and install a picket line?
Mr. Kasper. In some cases.
Mr. Kennedy. When he is expelled from the association, he was
almost automatically also expelled from the union ?
IMPROPER ACTR'ITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD 16389
Mr. Kasper. Not necesssarily.
Mr. Kennedy. But that followed very frequently ?
Mr. Kasper. There weren't too many. 1 think in most cases the
union would maintain the membership of that member provided he
continued to pay his dues and they would provide pickets to force him
to remain in the union.
Mr. Kennedy. There was also arrangement whereby if a nonasso-
ciation member came and jumped the location of an association mem-
ber, you would provide the association member with a list of locations
of the nonassociation member, so that he in turn could be jumping his
locations?
Mr. Kasper. If we had the locations we would provide them, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, a trustee was placed in local 433 ; is that right?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is when it was taken over by the Eetail Clerks;
is that right?
Mr. Kasper. The internatioanl ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kjsnnedy. At that time the Retail Clerks were anxious for local
888 of the Retail Clerks to replace them ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Was the association against that ?
Mr. Kasper. No, not primarily at first, and they sat by quietly while
negotiations were carried on.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, was there a problem about the fact that if
this was going to be a legitimate union that wasn't going to charge for
label fees, the association was against it?
Mr. Kasper. The association tried to make contact with 888 some
time after the charter was suspended and the officers of 888 wouldn't
have anything to do with label charges and they just wanted the
monthly dues.
Mr. Kennedy. And the association, however, wanted a union that
would be able to finance pickets ?
Mr. ICasper. They felt that it wouldn't be sufficient to finance
pickets.
Mr. Kennedy. So they went to look for another union ?
Mr. Kasper. Not for quite some time.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, subsequently.
Mr. Kasper. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. They were willing initially to go in with local 888
but then when local 888 would only charge for the dues of the em-
ployees who were members of the union, the association was not
interested because they felt that they could not finance the picket
lines that were necessary for the association ; is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. This was the servicing that the union was supposed
to give to the members of the association.
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mv. Kennedy. Subsequently, Mr. Caggiano, about whom we had
testimony yesterday, reactivated his local 465?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And he was willing to take in the label fees and a
contract was made with his local ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right, it was renegotiated and to obtain the
standing he had had prior to the merger with 433.
16690 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, did the members of the association
want you to go into this local and be their representative ?
Mr. Kasper. I have been asked that ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Who asked you to do that ?
Mr. Kasper. Several members on the board of directors, and I
don't recall because I dismissed it and I thought of the matter no
further.
Mr. Kennedy. They wanted to make sure that the union acted on
their behalf and provided the correct servicing and they requested
that you go and start to work for the irnion to make sure that their
interests were covered ; is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you refused to do that ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. During the period of time when they couldn't make
this agreement with local 888 and there was no union, was there much
raiding back and forth between the various members of the associa-
tion?
Mr. Kasper. Not among the members of the association. There
was very little among them, but there was much raiding by
non members.
Mr. Kennedy. Raiding of the locations of the members of the
association?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that is what brought about the signing of the
contract ultimately with local 465 ?
Mr. Kasper. There was no contract entered into with 465.
Mr. Kennedy. Or making the arrangements ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, they were negotiating.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Al Cohen then come into the picture with
his local ?
Mr. Kasper. He came in with a local on music.
Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Cohen doing ?
Mr. Kasper. He was identified with 433, with Caggiano, and sub-
sequently took leave of absence and my understanding is he organized
a new union called 531 and playing havoc among the music operators.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he going around and causing difficulty among
certain of the operators in favor of other operators; did you under-
stand that?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find that out yourself that he was actively
around working on behalf of some of the operators ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You had your own personal experience with that?
Mr. Kasper, Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the association was considering signing a con-
tract then with some five or six different unions, that were active in
the field?
Mr. Kasper. Approximately that many.
Mr. Kennedy. There was Local 202 of the Teamsters, Local 266 of
the Teamsters, and 1690 of the Retail Clerks and 465 of the Federated
Union of America, Local 10 of the FSWU ; is that right ?
Mr. Kasper. I am not familiar with the initials, but the numbers
lam.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16691
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was local 19 suggested by ?
Mr. Kasper. The first I heard of it was when I met a chap by the
name of John, and it is a difficult name, Amalfitano, and Larry Gallo.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand Mr. Amalfitano was an indi-
vidual who had certain underworld connections?
Mr. Kasper. I didn't at the time, but I have learned since.
Mr. Kennedy. And also was it suggested by Bert Jacob, who was
a board member ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir,
Mr. Kennedy. And he said that you could make a contract with
local 19 and they would restore peace to the industry ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Actually it was local 19 and some of these same peo-
ple who were causing the havoc, was it not ?
Mr. Kasper. Later on, when they lost an injunctive suit, same
people organized 266.
Mr. Kennedy, l\niich is the Teamsters ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, as to Local 202 of the Teamsters, there was no
interest in making a contract with them either because they were not
interested in taking money for labels; is that right?
Mr. Kasper, That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. ISIr. Chairman, Local 202 of the Teamsters of New
York has a good reputation, and a very legitimate union, and this
once again shows that the association was not interested in making a
contract with really a legitimate union as they could have with these
people, but only with a union that would take extra money to pay
pickets, which was really the purpose of making the contract,
Mr, Kasper. At a general meeting —
The Chairman, Local 202 was a good union, in spite of the inter-
national leadership ?
Mr. Kennedy, That is correct, but ultimately they did sign the
contract with Local 266 of the Teamsters, which is the local union
of the Teamsters in New York which is run by the gangsters.
Mr, Kasper, May I clarify that a moment ?
The Chairman, You say "run by the gangsters." Was that 266
already in existence or was it created specifically for this purpose?
Mr. Kennedy. Mr, DeGrandis was an official of another union,
and he was expelled because of the way he was operating. We will
have testimony on that. He set up local 266 of the Teamsters, and
he has a police record.
Local 202 of the Teamsters had jurisdiction over this industry, and
the joint council 16 under Mr. O'Rourke stepped in and took juris-
diction away from the legitimate Teamstei-s Union and gave it to the
Teamsters Union that is gangster-run.
The Chairman, That is 266 ?
Mr, Kasper. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Was 266 already in existence ?
Mr. Kennedy, No, it came into existence during this period of time,
in 1955,
Mr. Kasper. At a general meeting, there were four unions men-
tioned, and the membership voted.
The Chairman. It is pretty well established, then, the purpose of
establishing 266 was to do the dirty job that 202 refused to do.
16692 IMPROPER ACTRITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kasper. Well, no, it is not that way. It is not that simple.
202 was the union voted upon to enter into negotiations for a contract
at a general meeting. A day or two later it was reported to me that
there was a central trades committee among the Teamster officials, and
that 202 had no jurisdiction, and 202 I understand was a member
of the Hickey group, which was considered an honest group, and 266
was considered a member of the O'Rourke group, considered a dis-
honest group.
The Chairman. What I was trying to get at, 266 was in existence,
and it had already been established prior to this controversy ?
Mr. Kasper. No, sir, 266 came about after the voting of 202.
The Chairman. I am trying to get the record clear.
Mr. Kasper. I hadn't heard of 266 until 2 days after the meeting,
when 202 was voted upon.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kasper. In spite of the no-label charges.
Mr. Kennedy. When 202 refused to accept or make this arrange-
ment accepting extra money for the labels, and then when joint coun-
cil 16 ruled in favor of local 266, a contract was made with local 266
of the Teamsters.
Mr. Kasper. Not with the AAMON Y at the time.
Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently it was.
Mr. Kasper. Yes, after some hard work.
The Chairman. How long subsequently ?
Mr. Kasper. Not to jump the gun, but prior to that when the asso-
ciation refused to sign with 266, a group of board members of the
association and a group of nonmembers whom we have had a lot of
difficulty with formed the United Coin Machine, and it was they who
signed with 266.
Mr. Kennedy. A rival association, was it?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. How long afterward was it before this was finally
done?
Mr. Kasper. Very shortly thereafter.
The Chairman. This was all happening very fast?
Mr. Kasper. I think it was all prearranged.
Mr. Kennedy. The group that had formerly been backing local 19,
fellows like Burt Jacobs, they then went over to local 266?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the local 19 is the local, Mr. Chairman, that
was described to us yesterday. The people that were the heads of
it were the people who were the inheritors or people who followed
from Murder, Inc. They also were a gangster group.
"Wlien the association refused to go along with them, this group
within the association backed local 266 and walked out of the associa-
tion and brought this group with them, and then tliev signed a con-
tract with local 266.
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. That was a rival association called United Coin ; is
that right ?
IVfr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was made up to a large extent by the board
members of AAMONY?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16693
Mr. Kasper. Not all of the board membei^. There were about
40 percent of them.
Mr. Kennedy. Of the board members went over with this new
group ?
Mr. Kasper. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently, local 266 began picketing the other
members who were interested in getting or obtaining a contract with
a legitimate union?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Then, did the association ultimately, because of the
pressure that was being placed on them by local 266 and the Team-
sters and these association members that walked out, did they subse-
quently decide that they would join together with United Coin?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And they moved into their office, did they?
Mr. Kasper. Yes.
]VIr. Kennedy. Is that because of the pressure that local 266 was
able to place on you ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you move over yourself ?
Mr. Kasper. I refused when the truckmen arrived to take the
records and the furniture. I was instructed. I took my ordere at
that time from the president, and the board passes on their orders,
and I have obeyed the president's instructions and he told me not to
allow anybody to move anything out of the office.
]Mr. Kennedy. Subocquently did you ?
Mr. Kasper. Pressure was brought upon the president and he
reversed his orders.
The Chairman. Can you describe the pressure that you refer to?
Mr. Kasper. Only from guesswork, sir.
The Chairman. Well, you have a pretty accurate guess about it,
haven't you?
]\Ir. Kasper. The pressure was brought upon him, "Either you move
over or we will continue to picket your members."
The Chairman. What is that?
Mr. Kasper. "You move over the records to the new office, that
is the United, move your records and we don't care about your furni-
ture, and all we want is your records, and move them over to our
office and if you refuse to do it we will continue the pickets."
There was a moratorium set on the pickets, and pickets were re-
moved, and the small operators were crying and they had their life
savings invested and they were losing locations because of the pickets
and the owners of the bars and grills wouldn't have any disputes with
any union, and so these operators were asked to remove their equip-
ment.
The Chairman. It was an economic pressure applied by the union ?
Mr. Kasper. Exactly.
The Chairman. And in a collusion with the association.
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Where it involved the Teamsters, it was that much
more powerful because they could cut off all of the deliveries to the
tavern.
IVIr. Kasper. That has already been established, too, and they have
stopped deliveries.
16694 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. So with all of this pressure, ultimately it was de-
cided that you had better move over and make this arrangement with
Mr. De Grandis and the Teamsters Local 266.
Mr. Kasper. That is true, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the main backing for Mr. De Grandis came once
again from Mr. Jacob, did it not, Mr. Gene Jacob, who is one of the
owners ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he is the one that has this route in New York and
also in West Virginia ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, did he start giving you orders then when you
moved into the new office ?
Mr. Kasper. He did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you protest ?
Mr. Kasper. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. And what did Mr. Jacob tell you at that time ?
Mr. Kasper. Well, I protested violently, to put it mildly, and I
have instructed the board I wouldn't take orders from anybody but
the president.
Mr. Gene Jacob and I got into a hassle and he finally pacified me
by telling me that he has a piece of the union, and that I wouldn't
mind working for $500 a week, and that in a short time he would have
all of the music operators and game operators into the newly combined
association and the union and that he would invariably increase the
monthly label charge to $5 per equipment, and that there would be
about $25,000 a month income, and that there would be enough to
pay off the board members and to give me a handsome salary, as
well as himself.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he had helped finance the union ?
Mr. Kasper. He did.
Mr. Kennedy. He had helped to finance Local 266 of the Teamsters ?
Mr. Kasper. That, and also the newly formed United.
Mr. Kennedy. As well as the association ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that you should go along because you were
going to be able to get a complete monopoly of all of the operations in
New York City?
Mr. Kasper. That is right. Let me trouble you for a moment.
Gene Jacob controlled the union and Bert Jacob controlled the associa-
tion, and between them they could control the industiy and that was
their plan.
Mr. Kennedy. The smaller operators could be squeezed out, and
the label fees could be upped,. There would be more money avail-
able for everybody, and there would be an absolute monopoly on the
whole industry in New York City ?
Mr. Kasper. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he send you out to various locations to try to
find out who were members of the association and who were not ?
Mr. Kasper. I did.
Mv. Kennedy. Did you go out into Long Island ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you report back ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16695
Mr. KL\srER. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find that immediately upon reporting back,
that Local 2GG of the Teamstei-s sent out pickets to picket these peo-
ple?
Mr. Kasper. They did.
Mr. Kennedy. And this was causing great economic hardship on
all of these people ?
Mr. Kasper. It did.
JNlr. Kennedy. Did you object again to that ?
Mr. Kasper. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the result ?
Mr. Kasper. I resigned.
Mr. Kennedy. When was this ?
Mr. Kasper. In April of 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. When was the conversation that you had with Mr.
Jacob about gaining control of all of these coin machines in New York
City?
Mr. Kasper. About 2 or 3 weeks prior to my resignation.
Mr. Kennedy. About March of 1958 ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You just felt that you couldn't take it any longer?
Mr. Kasper. I couldn't ; no, sir.
Mr. I^NNEDY. Did you ever hear Mr. Gene Jacob talking to any-
one, to any of the operators, as to what would happen to them if they
didn't belong to the association ?
Mr. Kasper. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate that to the committee ?
Mr. Kasper. I recall one incident where he talked to the wife of
a nonmember, asking her to get her husband to join up or he won't
have to go to a dentist to get his teeth removed.
The Chairman. You spoke of $25,000, and was that per week or
per month?
Mr. Kasper. Per month income.
The Chairman. That would be from the $5 macliine charge?
Mr. Kasper. Ultimately so ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. From stamps ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That didn't include or purport to cover all of the
income, the $25,000 per month?
Mr. Kasper. That was my understanding; that would be the total
gross income.
The Chairman. From all of the levies made ?
Mr. Kasper. From the music boxes and games as well.
The Chairman. I know, but did it apply to dues, and did it include
dues or just the stamps?
Mr. Kasper. The stamps, and the association had no dues other than
the label charge.
The Chairman. Other than the label charge ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The people that were behind local 19, the union that
Jacob backed originally, were the Gallo brothers ; is that right ?
Mr. IL^sper. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know anything about the Gallos ?
16696 IMPROPER ACTrviTIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kasper. Only from hearsay ; only what was reported.
Mr. Kennedy. That they were connected with the underworld?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, Lawrence Gallo, according to our in-
formation, has been arrested 18 times and convicted 4 times, and he is
30 years old. He was convicted in 1944 for grand larceny and crimi-
nally receiving stolen property; 1951 for policy; 1952 for criminally
receiving stolen goods; and 1954 for felonious assault. He was the
man that was backing this local 19.
After local 19 lost out, did you see him in the association head-
quarters ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes; I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Were they there frequently?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He and his brother?
Mr. Kasper. Well, Lawrence was a more frequent visitor than the
other brother.
Mr. Kennedy. Was Joey there also?
Mr. Kasper. I have met him once or twice.
Mr. Kennedy. Joey Gallo is known as Joey the Blonde. He has
been arrested 17 times, and he is 28 years old. He has been convicted
four times. In 1944, when he was a juvenile delinquent, placed on pro-
bation at the age of 14; 1950, burglary and possession of burglary
tools; 1950, disorderly conduct; 1954, felonious assault.
These were the people that were behind local 19, and certain mem-
bers of the association were anxious to make a contact with this group
rather than a legitimate union.
Subsequently they turned their efforts over in favor of local 266,
which had not been in existence in this field in the past which, in turn,
was run by a convicted felon, and the Gallos continued to play a role
in the association, and used to frequent the office of the association.
The contract is now with local 266. The man who is chiefly responsi-
ble says that in a short period of time he can gain control of the whole
of New York City in this field?
Mr. Kasper. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. And a complete monopoly through the help of the
Teamsters Union ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
The Chairman. Is this effort now in progress ? Is this effort now
continuing, to gain this complete monopoly in New York City?
Mr. Kasper. Well, to my understanding, since I left the association,
the continued picketing and raiding of music, that the music associa-
tion, through their efforts in obtaining injunctions against their raid-
ers, that they have subsided for the time being.
Tlie Chairman. You don't think it has been permanently aban-
doned?
Mr. Kasper. No, sir. I know they have stretched out not only in
New York City and Nassau and Suffolk Counties, but also into
Westchester.
The Chairman. Do you think the organization still exists and still
has plans to monopolize the industry througliout the State?
Mr. Kasper. I imagine that is still their plan.
The Chairman. Some injunctions or proceedings of that nature
have slowed them down to some extent?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16697
Mr. Kasper. They have.
The Chairman, Is there anything further?
Senator Kennedy. Mr. Chairman
The Chairman. Senator Kennedy ?
Senator Kennedy. As 1 understand it, tlie $25,000 estimated
monthly profit was going to come from tlie sticker money, phis the
profits that would be made by the additional installations secured. Is
that correct ?
Mr. I^\sper. I don't quite understand what you mean by instal-
lations.
Senator Kennedy. You were told by Mr. Jacob that there would be
a profit of $25,000, out of which you would get a very adequate salary
and others would receive compensation.
Where would that $25,000 come from? Would it come in part
from sticker money ?
Mr. Kasper. All of it would be sticker money.
Senator Kennedy. It would not be merely additional installations ?
Mr. Kaspfr. No.
Senator Kennedy. In other words, you would get $25,000 a month
just from the sticker money ?
Mr. Kasper. That is right.
Senator Kennedy. You would get other moneys, of course, as the
number of installations increased, with your additional power?
Mr. Kasper. In addition — for example, if there were 10,000 pieces
of equipment, that would be at the rate of $5 a piece; it would be
$50,000.
If they had increased their routes, for each additional piece of
equipment they would pay the extra $5.
Senator Kennedy. As I understand it, the union, in order to get
the pickets away, would have to pay this estimated $5 per machine
for the sticker. That $5 would not go to the union, but it would go
to Mr. Jacob for he and his brother to divide, who was head of the
union, is that correct, plus all the rest ?
Mr. Kasper. There would be two separate charges, one by the as-
sociation, and then there would be another charge by the union. They
would function independently, separate and apart.
Senator Kennedy. Well, how would the
Mr. Kasper. In other words, you would pay $5 a month for each
piece of equipment to the association, and you would pay $5 a month
to the union.
Senator Kennedy. You would each get $5 ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes.
Senator Kennedy. This would be in addition to the regular rent
that you pay to the association for the use of the machines; is that
correct ? You are now talking about just a sticker charge ?
Mr. Kasper. I am talking about a sticker charge only. That is
the only charge that the association makes.
Senator Kennedy. But the company, the operators, would get their
own money, of course, from the installation of the machines in a tav-
ern and so on ; is that correct 1
Mr. Kasper. Well, that would be added to their monthly dues. In
other words, if you operated 10 pieces, and you paid $5 a month for
each, that was $50. That was the only source of income.
16698 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Senator Kennedy. What I am trying to get at is this : The $25,000
was going to be income which would be derived by members of the
association, and particularly Mr. Jacob; it would be derived by the
use of union pickets, and the payoff that the owners of the taverns,
et cetera, would have to make in order to rid themselves of the pick-
ets. Is that the way it would work ?
Mr. Kaspkr. That is about setting it up.
Senator Kennedy. It seems to me that this is the reverse, instead
of the usual pattern, which is the payment by the employer to the
union leader for a sweetheart arrangement, which is prohibited, but
not sufficiently, in the Taft-Hartley Act.
Now we have a case where the union is paying the employers and
is the means of getting a payoff to the employer, which is the use
of the union by the association to pay off the employer. Is that
correct ?
Mr. Kasper. No, sir. Perhaps I misunderstood your question, or
perhaps you misunderstood my answer.
The union and the association are separate entities.
Senator Kennedy. But it is the use of the union picket line which
secures for you under this plan, the association, $25,000.
Mr. Kasper. That would be the force of it.
Senator Kennedy. That is right. You don't have any other means
of raising the $25,000 except the threat of the picket line; is that
correct ?
Mr. Kasper, That is correct.
Senator Kennedy. Therefore, it is the union securing a payment
for the employers or the association of the $25,000.
INIr. Kasper. That is correct; yes, sir.
Senator Kennedy. That is not a customary way in which the money
flows. "Why would the union be that generous with you ? If they are
getting the sticker money and they are the ones who are securing it,
why wouldn't they keep the $25,000?
Mr. Kasper. Well, they would get a like amount.
Senator Kennedy. They would get theirs and the association gets
theirs.
Mr. Kennedy. There are two kinds of stickers, the association's
and the union. For each of the stickers you have to pay $5 in order
to place it on your machine.
Senator Kennedy. But both stickers would be enforced by the union.
Mr. Kennedy. That is right.
Mr. Kasper. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. In order to make this operate successfully you have
to have the union.
Then, of course, in addition to that money, it was going to be the
increase in business by putting the small operators out of business,
which local 266 is doing at this very time, by placing the picket line.
Then they can be selective as to who they will allow in the association.
If you can't get in the association you can't get in the union, and
you are out of business.
The Chairman. In other words, it is a collusive arrangement be-
tween the union and the association.
Mr. Kasper. I would say that would be the case the last 8 or 10
months. It hasn't been while I was there. I can assure you of that.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16699
Senator Kennedy. I would say the union is being generous with the
association. Instead of in effect stealing the $25,000 for themselves, the
Teamster local, they were generous enough to make sure that the
association also got theirs.
Mr. Kasper. That is right. They would both get theirs.
Mr. Kennedy. Nobody is interested in the employees.
Mr. Kasper, They never was.
Senator Kennedy. Do you know what happened to the $25,000
which the union got? Was that distributed by Jacobs' brother, or
was that distributed to each union member on a pro rata basis?
]Mr. Kasper. Are you referring to the income ?
Senator Kennedy. This is what would have happened.
Mr. Kasper. Well, both brothers, one was in power of the associa-
tion, and the other in tlie power of the union. They would act as
independent entities and both would receive their portion.
Senator Kennedy. I am sure it is evil. There is no doubt that
numerous laws would have been breached. It indicates that no matter
how many laws you write, the administration is what counts.
Mr. Kennedy, Jacobs were just nominally with the union. They
were actually with management.
Mr, Kasper. Both are in the association's office.
Mr, Kennedy, Both Jacobs are with tlie management and then
we have on the union side first the Gallo brothers and then we had
DeGrandis,
Mr, Kasper, Yes, sir.
Mr, Kennedy. And that is the present arrangement ?
Mr. Kasper, Yes, sir.
Senator Kennedy. The Taft-Hartley Act prohibits the payment by
the employer. It may be necessary to place some additional language
which would prohibit the use by the employers of a union in order
to coerce money for themselves, even though, of course, it would be
prohibited, I think, by the law of New York,
Mr, Kasper, I imagine so.
The Chairman. The union has a charter, has it not, local 266 ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes, they have. It wasn't easy to obtain it.
The Chairman. That was a charter from the International Team-
sters ?
Mr. Kasper. Yes,
Senator Kennedy. One other point. It seems to me that the prob-
lem is that you can write a provision of a law against the use of a
picket line for extortion, which is what this amounted to, and there
is no doubt that that is generally supported, but it seems to me that
the problem here is that the union in these cases always conceals that
it is extortion and says that it is a servicing charge, or protecting the
working conditions of their members.
Therefore, it is very difficult to pinpoint legislative language in
order to deal with this kind of a situation, when it is always concealed,
as we saw in the case of a generator a few minutes ago. The payments
are never that blunt, but they are always hidden by using some respect-
able aside,
Mr, Kasper, That is so true.
The Chairman, Thank you very much, Mr, Kasper,
The committee will stand in recess until 2 : 30,
16700 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
(Members of the select committee present at the taking of the
recess were Senators McClellan and Kennedy.)
(Whereupon, at 12: 15 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene
at 2 : 30 p.m., the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
afternoon session were Senators McClellan and Church.)
The Chairman. We will proceed.
Mr. Ivennedy. Mr. Caggiano is the next witness.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Caggiano. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES CAGGIANO
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation, please.
Mr. Caggiano. My name is James Caggiano. I live at 6236 130th
Street, Flushing, Long Island, and my business is president of local
405.
The Chairman. What local is that ?
Mr. Caggiano. 465.
The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Caggiano. I do.
Mr. Kennedy. That is 465 of the International Union of Electrical
Machine Workers ?
Mr. Caggiano. Industrial.
Mr. Kennedy. Electrical Industrial Workers?
Mr. Caggiano. Industrial Union of Electrical Machine Workers.
Mr. Kennedy. Affiliated with ?
Mr. Caggiano. CUA, Confederated Unions of America.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are president of that local ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How many members do you have ?
Mr. Caggiano. Right now paying members, about 35.
Mr. Kennedy. About 35 members?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What kind of members are not paying members ?
You said paying members. Do you have some that don't pay ?
Mr. Caggiano. They haven't paid in the past. They have paid in
the past, I mean.
The Chairman. They are not paid up, you mean ?
Mr. Caggiano. Tliat is right.
The Chairman. They have been members in the past but not paid
up now ?
Mr. Caggiano. Over 200.
The Chairman. There have been 200 in the past that are not paid
up now ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16701
Mr. Kennedy. That is during your career extended back a number
of years ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Up until just recently you were the part owner of a
club vending service ; is that right ? That is a small-scale nut and gum
vending business, and a reconditioner of jukeboxes, at the same time
you were president of local 465 ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. This did not work out financially so you have aban-
doned it ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are concentrating on your 30 members of
your union.
Mr. Caggiano. I am concentrating on organizing, whatever I can.
Mr. Kennedy. Whatever needs to be organized ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What are the dues that these members pay ?
Mr. Caggiano. $4 a month dues.
Mr. Kennedy. That is about $120 a month ?
Mr. Caggiano. Approximately.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have a headquarters ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Where are your headquarters ?
Mr. Caggiano. At 53d Street and Broadway.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have a room there ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. It belongs to just you ?
Mr. Caggiano. Just one room.
Mr. Kennedy, It belongs to you ?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I am occupying one room with someone else. I
am sharing the office with someone else.
Mr. Kennedy. Who are you sharing your office with ?
Mr. Caggiano. A fellow by the name of Perry.
Mr. Kennedy. "VXHiat kind of business is he in ?
Mr. Caggiano. He is in the advertising business.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you pay rent to him ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The union dues ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Out of $120 ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that your sole source of income, $120 ?
Mr. Caggiano. Right now, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. So you have to pay rent to him and support yourself
on $120 a month?
Mr. Caggiano. I have my daughters working, and helping out at the
house.
Mr. Kennedy. You were born on the lower east side of New York
City.
Mr, Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time you came to know people such as
Lucky Luciano?
36751— 59— pt. 46 16
16702 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Joe Adonis?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Longy Zwillman ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Jerry Catena?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Doc Statcher?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Frank Costello ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Dutch Schultz?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Jimmy Doyle?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Those are some of the people that you were brought
up with ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You were active during prohibition as a bootlegger ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. KJENNEDY. You worked for Lucky Luciano at that time?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You sold liquor that was procured by Lucky Lu-
ciano during prohibition ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were one of those who rowed out to the
ships and unloaded the ships and brought the liquor m?
Mr. Caggiano. Sometimes.
Mr. Kennedy. That was your job during prohibition days?
Mr. Caggiano. Sometimes ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Then later you worked for Meyer Lansky, did you!
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were chauffeur for him ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Chauffeur for his son, also, who was crippled ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You have no convictions and you have been ar-
rested several times, but no convictions ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. During 1940, you had been working in your father's
grocery store?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you went to work for local 254 for Lichtman ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Who testified yesterday. And you worked as a
business agent; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And what were your duties and what were you do-
ing for them ?
Mr. Caggiano. Organizing.
Mr. Kennedy. What is that?
Mr. Caggiano. Organizing.
Mr. Kennedy. What would this mean ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16703
Mr. Caggiano. Well, organizing the industry in the coin machines.
Mr. Kennedy. When there was a complaint, at this time they had
a contract with the association, local 254 ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was a contract with the game association, was
it not?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And when the members of the game association
telephoned that a location of his had been jumped, you would handle
that ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. I would go out and investigate.
Mr. Kennedy. You would go out and investigate?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And if necessary place the pickets in front of the
location?
Mr. Caggiano. If it was necessary ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The purpose of the imion at that time, at least, was
to protect the game association ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. If it was a nonunion operator and if you were able
to induce a nonunion operator to join the union, he also joined the
association, and that was automatic ; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then, after a period of time, local 254 used labels
as a source of income ?
Mr. Caggiano. I didn't hear that correctly.
Mr. Kennedy. After a while, local 254, not receiving too much in-
come from the membership, started using these labels as a source of
income ?
Mr. Caggiano. Tliat is right.
;Mr. Kennedy. Is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And the labels would go out on each one of the
machines?
Mr. Caggiano. It would be placed on each machine.
Mr, Kennedy. Initially the labels cost 25 cents per machine.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
]Mr. Kennedy. And the dues were about $3 a month ?
Mr. Caggiano. $3 a month dues.
Mr. Kennedy. There was nothing that was gained by the employees
out of the arrangement, the employees got nothing out of the union?
Mr. Caggiano. Other than holding their jobs.
The Chairman. Holding their jobs?
Mr. Kennedy. There was no pension or welfare or other benefits?
Mr. Caggiano. No.
Mr. Kennedy. And no increase in wages or anything like that?
Mr. Caggiano. No.
Mr. Kennedy. The group that gained chiefly by it was the
association?
Mr, Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you received a salary of $50 a week and
Lichtman received some $60 a week ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is riofht.
16704 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Then there was a girl secretary ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, in 1950, the union be^an to go broke, did it
not, because the employees were calling so often to get service and
get the picket lines sent out ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So what steps did you take at that time?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, they weren't paying any dues or assessments
and we went out organizing some of the jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. That is when you started organizing the jukeboxes?
Mr. Caggiano. Some fellows, someone came to us wanting to join
the union for the jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that known to be rather a rough group in the
jukebox industry?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, it was.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find that out yourself ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir, I certainly did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Mr. Calland who was also trying to
organ ize the j iikeboxes ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Calland have a conversation with you about
making an appointment to see you; that is, Mr. Frank Calland?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, he did.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate what he said to you ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, he said he wanted to see me.
Mr. Kennedy. He operated local 78f» ?
Mr. Caggiano. Out of local 786, IBEW; that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What did Mr. Calland say ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, he wanted to see me and talk to me about the
industry, and I told him I Avasn't interested.
Mr. Kennedy. Who did he say wanted to see you ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, he mentioned a fellow by the name of Harry
"Socks."
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who Harry "Socks" was ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes. Harry "Socks" Lanza.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who Socks Lanza was ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He was a notorious underworld figure ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I wouldn't say he was a notorious underworld
figure, but I knew the fellow from the inside.
Mr. Kennedy. So did you decide to go and to see Socks Lanza?
Mr. Caggiano. I told him I wasn't interested.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened after that ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, a couple of days later Frank Calland called
Mr. Lichtman and tolcl him that he wanted to see me. I told him it
was all right, so he made arrangements for an appointment to meet
me at his office, at 57th Street and Broadway, and when we went there,
there were a couple of fellows there, and he introduced me to them,
and then a telephone call came in and they changed the appointment
for somenlace in Bi-ooklyn.
Mr. Kennedy. Was there anything unusual about the office that
you went to see him in ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16705
Mr, Caggiano. No, at that time I didn't know if there was some-
thing unusual, but I found out hiter on there was something unusual.
Mr. Kennedy. What was it that was unusual ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, the unusual part was that the windows were
wide open and I was told I was going to be thrown out the window.
Mr. Kennedy. This was about the fifth or eighth floor?
Mr. Caggl\no. On the eighth floor.
Mr. Kennedy. He introduced these two gentlemen who were there?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ivennedy. As friends of his?
Mr. Caggiano, Yes, sir.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
afternoon session : Senators McClellan and Church.)
Mr. Kennedy. But Mr. Lichtman was with you and the arrange-
ments were made to have an appointment in another place; is that
right?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go to the other place ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, when I went to the other place
Mr. Kennedy. That was Mr. Denver's office?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes ; Mr. Denver's office.
Mr. Kennedy. He was head of the association at the time?
Mr. Caggiano. He was head of the association.
Mr. Kennedy. You went into his office, and what happened then ?
Mr. Caggiano. We stood there a few minutes and I was called out
by Frank Calland, that he wanted to talk to me.
When I went outside, I walked a little distance in the rear room and
someone hit me with a blackjack or something and I went out like a
light. It gave me a terrible deal — fractured my ribs and my chest,
and gave me a good working over.
Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean "terrible deal"?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, kicked and punched and whatever not. I was
unconscious. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you regain consciousness at all ?
Mr. Caggiano. After a while; yes, I regained consciousness.
Mr. Kennedy. What were they doing at the time you regained con-
sciousness?
Mr. Caggiano. They weren't there then. There was nobody around.
My friend, Charlie Lichtman, drove me back to New York and 1 went
to St. Clare's Hospital, and I stood there a couple of days.
Mr. Kennedy. Vv^e picked up your record at the hospital. You
registered as Mr. James Cagi.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. It says the patient states that he was driving a car,
had to stop suddenly and fell forward over the car wheel.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Injured his chest and developed a severe pain in the
sterum region. Then it goes on.
Why did you tell them that ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I felt tliat if I do any more talking maybe they
will come back and give me a second workout.
16706
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Why did you think you had been beaten up?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, the fact was that I shouldn't be bothering
around with jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you bother around with jukeboxes after that?
Mr. Caggiano. Never did, never since then.
Mr. Kennedy. You have stayed away from jukeboxes?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Why?
Mr. Caggiano. I think one beating is enough.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was Calland ? Did you know anything about
his connections or contacts?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I didn't know too much about him, only from
other than being in the industry.
Mr. Kjinnedy. Did you know if he had any underworld connec-
tions ?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I did not.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, did you understand that he was closely con-
nected with the underworld ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes. It was understood after the beating, anyway.
You inquired around and found that he was closely
That is right.
From then on you stayed out of the jukebox business ?
That is right.
. You were fired by Lichtman then after you got
Mr. Kennedy.
connected ?
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy
into this difficulty ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr.^ Kennedy. Then in 1951 — that was when you were with local
465 — in 1951 you established a local 254? No, you established your
own 465 ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Lichtman's union was local 254?
That is right.
After you were fired by him, you established your
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy
own local, 465 ?
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. I&.nnedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr, Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy,
Mr, Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy
tributor ?
Mr. Cagoiano.
That is, I put in an application for a charter.
Well, from the lUE ; is that right?
That is right.
And you were able to get a charter for local 465 ?
That is right.
Tlien you began to organize ?
That is right.
Where did you get the money to establish that ?
I borrowed the money.
How much did you borrow ?
I borrowed $1,000.
From whom did you borrow it?
Dominic Ambrose.
He was one of the employers, is that right, a dis-
That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Out on Long Island ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16707
Mr. Kennedy. He is, in fact, one of the largest operators in New
York City at the present time; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. No. He was at that time, but no more today.
Mr. Kennedy. He does not operate now ?
Mr. Caggiano. I don't think so. ^
Mr. Ivennedy. But at that time he was one of the largest opera-
tors in New York City ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is riorht.
Mr. KJENNEDY. His name is Dominic Ambrose?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Ivennedy, Did you ever pay him back ?
Mr. Caggiano. A portion of it, I did. I think about half or a little
more than half. I still owe him some more money.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he sign a contract with you then ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you started organizing the game machine
business?
Mr. Caggiano. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, you started — Mr. Chairman, may this
be identified?
The Chairman. I present to you what purports to be a photostatic
copy of a charter for local union No. 465 and ask you to examine it and
state if you identify it.
(A document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
The Chairman. Is that a photostatic copy of the charter that you
received?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 14.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 14" for reference,
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Then you got into a contest with Mr. Lichtman, is
thatright, of 254?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you started picketing people that had contracts
with his union and he started picketing people who had contracts
with your union ? There was cross picketing back and forth?
Mr. Caggiano. Not with Charlie Lichtman.
Mr. Kennedy. There was no cross picketing ? Did you start picket-
ing his places, his locations ?
Mr. Caggiano. There was no pickets with local 254.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't start picketing his locations?
Mr. Caggiano. No.
Mr. Kennedy. How did he happen to be
Mr. Caggiano. He wasn't active. He was not active at the time.
Mr. Kennedy. He couldn't get money to finance his operations ; is
that not correct ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I don't know whether he couldn't get any
money to finance, but he was somehow or other — he was not active, and
I was starting to get active in the trade.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you were doing some pi(5keting
at that time?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
16708 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You were picketing some of the locations that had
contracts, where they had contracts with him ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He wasn't able to cross picket or he wasn't able to
picket back because he didn't have the finances; is that not right?
Isn't that what you understood?
Mr. Caggiano, Well, I understood that, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. But you were picketing his places?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then was it arranged that Lichtman should sell out
his union?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And did you go to him and offer to buy his union
from him, buy his membership ?
Mr. Caggiano. Buy the contract, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And he would not sell it to you ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ultimately agree to sell it to Mr. Irving
Horowitz ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. H-o-r-o-w-i-t-z?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He sold that in December of 1951; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Horowitz had local 222 of the International Broth-
erhood of Jewelry Workers?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So you had 254, the retail-wholesale, department
stores, which had the jurisdiction, and then you had your union,
which was 465 of the United Electrical Workers, lUE, and then you
had the Jewelry Workers Union, and finally the retail-wholesale
department store local 254 sold out to local 222 of the Jewelry Work-
ers Union ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was for $2,000 ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you subsequently make an arrangement with
Horowitz to buy the contract from him?
Mr, Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you paid him $2,000?
Mr. Caggiano. Paid him back $2,000.
Mr. Kennedy. So the membership was transferred from 254 to
222 to 465 ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. All three different international unions?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know if anybody consulted with the mem-
bership as to whether they wanted to be transferred from one union
to the other?
Mr. Caggiano. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. You did?
Mr. Caggiano. I called a meeting of the men.
Mr. Kennedy. This was after they had been transferred ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
16709
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Caggiano.
a meeting.
JMr. Kennedy
Before the transfer.
How could you call them-
Whatever membership I
had at that time I called
That membership, but I am talking about the
people who belonged to 254 and then 222. Were they ever consulted?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I don't know about that.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the $2,000 from?
I borrowed it from
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Caggiano.
Kennedy.
Caggiano.
From some operators ?
From some operators.
Kennedy. Four operators?
Mr. Cagglvno. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. They loaned you the money to buy the union ?
Mr. Caggiano. They loaned me $2,000.
Mr. Kennedy. To buy the membership?
Mr. Caggl\no. To buy the contract.
Mr. Kennedy. Was Blatt one of the four that gave you the money
or loaned j'ou the money?
Mr. Caggiano. Gee, I don't recall. I think he did. I don't recall.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you remember any of the others ?
Mr. Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy
pay them back ?
Mr. Caggiano,
No, I don't.
You don't remember any of them. Did you ever
Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Each one got $500 ?
Mr. Caggiano. They all got their money back.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you get the money to pay them back?
Mr. Caggiano. From the union. From the union.
Mr. Kennedy. And the money from the union came, for the most
part, from the advance of the labels that you were getting from the
employers ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. As the result of the purchase, you acquired some 100
to 150 more members?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
ISIr. Kennedy. Most of these were self-employed operators?
Mr, Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. The operators were anxious for you to make this
purchase ; is that right ? I mean, they fhianced it initially ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You had a security clause in the contract, did you
not, that provided that those operators who were not members of the
union should pay $2,500 to the union ?
I will withdraw that question.
If an operator was not a member of the association, he would have
to pay a $2,500 payment to the union ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. No. That was supposed to be a bond that was sup-
posed to be placed.
Mr. Kennedy. I understand. Well, a bond.
Mr. Caggiano. A bond.
Mr. Kennedy. They would have to make a $2,500 payment in the
form of a bond to the union if he did not belong to the association?
16710 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was in order to get people to belong to
the association?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, yes, I will go along with that.
Mr. Kennedy. What ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, I go along with that.
Mr. Kennedy. And the practical result was that everybody be-
longed to the association rather than to pay the $2,500?
Mr. Caggiano. We were never able to exercise the $2,500 bond.
Mr. Kennedy. They all became members of the association?
Mr. Caggiano. Those that did.
Mr. Kennedy. We have a copy of the contract.
The Chairman. I present to you a photostatic copy of a document.
The title of it is, "Agreement, Made and Entered Into on the (blank)
Day of (blank) by and Between the International Union of Electrical,
Radio, and Machine Workers, Local 465."
I ask you to examine it and state if you identify it.
(Document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
The Chairman. You have examined the document. Wliatisit?
Mr. Caggiano. It is an agreement between local 465 and the associa-
tion.
The Chairman. You recognize it?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. That is a copy of the agreement that was made?
Mr. Caggiano. At that time.
The Chairman. At that time ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. All right. It may be made exhibit No. 15.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 15" for reference
and may be found in the files of the Select Committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. The section 11 provides for this $2,500 bond pay-
ment.
The Chairman. It provides for a $2,500 payment unless you are
a member of the association ?
Mr. Caggiano. It was not a payment.
Mr. Kennedy. A bond.
Mr. Caggiano. A bond that was supposed to be placed in order to
live up to an individual contract.
The Chairman. In other words, if they made a contract and were
not a member of the association, they had to put up the $2,500 bond?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. That was to guarantee that they would perform the
contract ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Exactly the same kind of arrangement, Mr. Chair-
man, that we went into last year in connection with the association
relationship with the cartage companies in New York City, where
they had to put up the same kind of a bond.
Mr. Caggiano. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you went along until April 1953 when the lUE
revoked your charter?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16711
Mr. Kennedy. Why did they revoke the charter?
Mr. Caggiano. They never gave us any reason. We were supposed
to have a hearing before the executive board, which was never had, and
they abandoned us. So we called a membership meeting, and the
vote was made by the members to go independently. So our mem-
bers went independently.
Mr. Kennedy. We have a letter here from Hartnett, who is sec-
retary-treasurer of the lUE. We wrote to him and asked him about
the revocation. He vStated :
It became almost immediately apparent that this local was not following along
the lines which met lUE standards. Upon additional investigation it became
abundantly clear that this was a completely dishonest operation, for which there
was not room and there is no room in the lUE. Consequently, they were sum-
marily expelled at our next executive board meeting.
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I do say this, that in the bylaw^s of the lUE,
we were supposed to have a hearing by the executive board, which was
never had.
Mr. Kennedy. They just expelled you?
Mr. Caggiano. They just expelled us after that, without listening
to our side of the story.
Mr. Kennedy. So then you took the membership out and became
independent ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. So in a period of a couple of years the membership
had gone from 254 of the Retail-Wholesale Department Stores to
local 222 of the International Jewelry Workers Union, to local 465
of the lUE, to local 465 Independent.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. One other step: Then you joined up with another
international ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. No.
Mr. Kennedy. 465 didn't become affiliated ?
Mr. Caggiano. Oh, well, local 465 was raided ; what we call in labor
"raided."
Mr. Kennedy. You had the dispute then with local 433 of the
RCIA, which is the Retail Clerks Union ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then there were disputes back and forth between
433 and local 465 ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. This is when Mr. Al Cohen came into the picture;
is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was October of 1954 ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I don't recall the date, but that was about the
time.
Mr. Kennedy. He was with the local what ?
Mr. Caggiano. Local 433.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Cohen is a major figure, Mr. Chairman, in the
course of this investigation of local 433.
Mr. Cohen and your union, 465 Independent, began to cross-picket
one another ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
16712 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. He would picket your locations and you would
picket his locations?
Mr, Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. There was complete havoc in the industry ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then upon the pressure of the employers, the op-
erators, 465 and 433 merged ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was that urged by, that you merge?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, it was suggested by some of the members of
the executive board.
Mr. Kennedy. Did that include Mr. Blatt?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, that is right; the attorney for the operators'
association.
Mr. Kennedy. He was one of those who recommended that ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. We have had some contradictory testimony from
Mr. Blatt, Mr. Chairman, and I expect from some of the other wit-
nesses, contradictory testimony from his testimony of yesterday, in-
cluding this matter, wliich Mr. Blatt denied having knowledge of.
Local 465 and local 433 did merge; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. In June of 1955?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What local did it become then ?
Mr. Caggiano. It became — I will say this, that on the membership
meeting that we had with local 465, the members voted that in the
event at any time local 433 wasn't suited by the members of local 405,
we were to revert back to 465.
Mr. Kennedy. You became local 433?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was RCIA ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Tliey have sone now from 254 to 222 to 465, lUE, to
465, Independent, to 433, RCIA ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You became president of Local 433, RCIA?
Mr. Caggiano. Tliat is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Cohen became secretary-treasurer and
business agent?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know if Mr. Cohen knew a Mr. Johnny
Dioijiiardi?
Mr. Caggiano. I didn't know ?
Mr. Kennedy. Were there telephone calls to your local headquar-
ters?
Mr. Caggiano. At that time, no, I didn't know it.
Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently did you learn?
Mr. Caggiano. I learned subsequently.
Mr. Kennedy. And Tony Ducks Corallo?
Mr. Caggiano. Subsequently.
Mr. Kennedy. There were telephone calls to and from Tony Ducks
as well as Johnny Dioguardi to Franlc Calland?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16713
Mr. Caggl^no. Well, I don't Imow about the calls
Mr. Kennedy. I mean, you knew of that?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Corallo ever come to the headquarters?
Mr. Caggiano. Not that I know of.
Mr. Kennedy. Tony Ducks, did he ever come to the headquarters?
Mr. Caggiano. I think maybe once.
Mr. Kennedy. You saw him there ? Mr. Calland was friendly with
these people ?
Mr. Cohen, I mean ; he was friendly with these two people ?
Mr. Caggiano. I assume so.
^Ir. Kennedy. You heard, you knew that they were talking on the
telephone ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Then Mr. Cohen left local 433 ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And he got another charter himself from another
international union called the United Industrial Unions?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Also friendly with Mr. Cohen was Moe Kutlow?
Did you know that ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who Moe Kutlow was ?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know he was a racketeer, came from a
racketeer family ?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know his brother Tom Cutty ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about Tom Cutty ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I knew him from the East Side, but I didn't
know Moe Kutlow.
Mr. Kennedy. His brother, Cutty, was an associate of Longie
Zwillman ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Cohen, when he left you, got a charter from Local
631 of the United Industrial Union ; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He resigned from local 433 on July 2, 1958.
Mr. Caggiano. If that is the record; that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he remain on the payroll even after he resigned
and formed his own union ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I was told that he had money coming, back
pay money coming to him, so that is what I assumed it was.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, he submitted a letter of resignation, or a
letter asking for a leave of absence, on October 18, 195C, and then a
letter of resignation on November 30, 1956.
Isn't it correct that he received his salary continuously after October
18, 1956, for some 3 or 4 months ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, to my knowledge, as I said, I felt and thought
that it was back pay money that he was getting.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you check and find out ?
Mr. Caggiano. I didn't check on it; no, sir.
16714 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Did you look at any of the books ?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I didn't look at the books, because I never went
to that department of the books. I took the bookkeeper's word.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the bookkeeper ?
Mr. Caggiano. The bookkeeper was the girl by the name of Sylvia
Goldberg.
Mr. Kennedy. Did she tell you that or did Mr. Cohen tell you ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I don't recall now.
Mr. Kennedy. He received $200 a week for some 4i/^ months after
he submitted his letter asking for a leave of absence, and some 3^
months after he submitted his letter of resignation. Even considering
the 31/2 months, that is about $2,500.
Mr.'CAGGiANO. Well, he said he had much more money coming to
him. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever check to find out if he should receive
that much ?
JMr. Caggiano. No. I assumed that was correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Just the fact that he said so, and you continued to
keep him on the payroll without checking it?
You were president of the local at the time.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You never checked to find out ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I felt they were competent enough to know
what was being done, and the accountant I felt knew what he was
doing also, so I believed it so.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have examined the books and
records.
Could I call a witness on that point?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Cofini.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT J. COFINI— Resumed
The Chairman. You have been previously sworn ?
Mr. CoFiNi. Yes ; I have.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Up to what date did Mr. Cohen continue to receive-
his salary ?
Mr. CoFiNi. The last salary payment was on March 15, 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it correct that he submitted a letter asking for a
leave of absence on October 18, 1956 ?
Mr. Cofini. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that he submitted a letter of resignation on
November 30, 1958?
Mr. Cofini. True.
Mr. Kennedy. And he actually continued to draw his salary until
the time that the union was placed in trusteeship by the Retail Clerks
International Association ; is that right ?
Mr. Cofini. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was in March of 1957 ?
Mr. CoFiNT. March of 1957.
The Chairman. Do you have the total amount that he drew during
that period of time, fi-oni the time he went on leave of absence on.
October 18, up until the 15th of March, 1957 ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16715
Mr.CoFiNi. Yes, sir; I have. $2,200.
The Chairman. $2,200?
Mr. CoriNi. That is correct.
The Chairman. That was drawn after he took the leave of absence^
and after he had also resigned ?
Mr. CoFiNi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is from November 30, 1956 ; not from October
18,1956.
The Chairman. I asked you the amount from October 18. What
is the amount from October 18 ?
Mr. CoEiNi. The records we have only show from January 4, 1957,
from that time up until March 15, 1957, totaling $2,200.
The Chairman. I do not quite understand it. Did he draw pay
from October 18, from the time he took his leave? Did he draw pay
continuously after that ?
Mr. CoriNi. Yes, he did. However, the records do not go back
that far.
The Chairman. How do you know, then, if the records do not go
back that far?
Mr. CoFiNi. I just have the figures from January 4, 1957, which was
also subsequent to the time he resigned.
The Chairman. But he did draw from January 4, 1957, to March
15, 1957; is that right?
Mr, CoFiNi. That is correct.
The Chairman. That is what your books show ?
Mr. CoFiNi. That is what the books show.
The Chairman. Do you have any record of whether he drew this
salary of $200 a week between October 18, 1956, and January 4, 1957?
Mr. CoFiNi. No ; I do not have those.
The Chairman. You have no records of whether he drew it at that
time or not?
Mr. CoFiNi. No, sir.
The Chairman. "Why 1 Are the records not available ?
Mr. CoFiNi. The records are incomplete ; that is right.
The Chairman. The records are incomplete ?
Mr. CoFiNi. That is right.
The Chairman. The assumption is, I guess, and it might be in-
dulged, that he probably drew the salary continuously?
Mr. CoFiNi. That is right.
The Chairman. While the records are not complete, if he had drawn
it continuously from October 18 through January 4 and on until
March 15, 1957, what would he have drawn ?
Mr. CoFiNi. Approximately $3,000.
]\rr. Kennedy. About $4,500.
The Chairman. You have $2,200 here. What was he drawing —
$200 a week ?
Mr. CoFiNi. $200 a week; that is right. It is about $4,500; that
is right.
The Chairman. From October 18 until March 15, that would be
how many weeks?
Mr. CoFiNi. About 12 or 13 weeks.
The Chairman. Twelve or thirteen weeks ?
Mr. CoFiNi. Thirteen weeks.
16716 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. How much was he drawing — $200 a week?
Mr. CoriNi. That is right.
The Chairman. That would be $2,400.
Mr. Kennedy. Senator, it is about 10 weeks, so that makes it about
$4,200, or approximately $4,200 if you take it from October 18, 1956,
and if you take it from November 30, 1956, deduct about $1,200 from
that, which brings it down to about $3,000.
The Chairman. Well, at least the records show he got $2,200 ?
Mr. CoFiNi. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Cofini.
Isn't it correct that he continued — after he set up this other union,
he continued to control local 433, and that is why he received this
money ?
TESTIMONY OF JAMES CAaGIANO— Eesumed
Mr. Caggiano. No.
Mr, Kennedy. Local union 433 was placed in trusteeship, by the
Retail Clerks International Association; is that right?
Mr. Caggiano. I didn't get that.
Mr. Kennedy. Your union was taken over by the Retail Clerks
International and placed in trusteeship ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you do then ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, to begin with, I didn't know what was taking
place. The Retail Clerks International somehow or other — someone
put a call into the office and advised Mrs. Sylvia Goldberg that some-
one is coming up to the office to take all of the records and take the
entire office over.
So Mrs. Goldberg took some of the records and she put them in the
next door. When I tried to get into the office the following day, I
found a new lock on the door so I couldn't get into the office. The in-
ternational representatives broke into the door and put their own lock
and took over the entire thing without notifying us in any way.
Mr. Kennedy. So you were out ?
Mr. Caggiano. We were out completely.
Mr. Kennedy. And they were in the office.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Senator Church. That was in 1957 ; is that right ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Senator Church. And the international came in and simply took
over the management of the union and imposed a trusteeship at that
time?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right. That is right; without notifying us
in any way.
Senator Church. And having taken over the local headquarters,
they put their own locks on the door and made an effort to get hold of
the books, and so forth ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
Senator Church. Were they successful in getting hold of the books ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, no; not at that time, because
Senator Church. You had taken the precaution of putting some of
the books in the next room, did I understand you to say ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, some. But we did this: I took their lock off
and put my own lock on.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16717
Senator Church. Then what happened ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I called a meeting, an executive board meeting,
and I explained to the members what took place, and they voted to
call a general meeting. We called the general meeting and we went
back to local 465.
Senator Church. In other words
Mr. Caggl\no. Independently.
Senator Church. In other words, when the International Retail
Clerks came in and established a trusteeship and attempted to take
over management of the union, after you got back into possession of
the headquarters, you called a meeting and then went out and estab-
lished an mdependent union again ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right. That is right.
Senator Church. This is the second time you moved out and estab-
lished an independent?
Mr. Caggiano. I was forced to move out. Let's put it that way. I
was forced to move out.
Senator Church. By the International Retail Clerks attempting to
impose a trusteeship over your local ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Who else was in 433 with you? What other people
did you have other than the game people?
Mr. Caggiano. We had the radiator repair servicemen.
Mr. Kennedy. Radiator repair servicemen ?
Mr. Caggiano. Auto radiator repair servicemen.
Mr. Kennedy. Are they the ones that showed up at the meeting?
Mr. Caggiano. The majority of them, I would say.
Mr. Kennedy. So it was really the auto radiator repairmen that
decided to go independent with you as the head ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, we had some of the coin-machine industry.
Let me put it this way, please: In our industry, the coin-machine
industry, I kept calling the meetings from time to time. There was
always a very poor attendance that was made every time we used to
call meetings in the coin-machine industry.
It w^as nothing new to me not to find any of the coin-machine in-
dustry. We would send out letters to that effect, about w^hat took
place with the Retail Clerks. That is why we have a very poor at-
tendance from the coin-machine industry.
Mr. Kennedy. Now^, after you went independent, then did you take
them into another international union ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What union was it then ?
Mr. Caggiano. The same union ; local 465.
Mr. Kennedy. Of what? Did you affiliate with an international
union ?
Mr. Caggiano. I applied for a charter with the Confederated
Unions of America.
The Chairman. Let me ask you, when you went out and went inde-
pendent again, who got the money or the assets of the union, and
were you able to keep that along with some of the records ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, we have that.
The Chairman. In other words, the trustee didn't get your records
or your finances ?
36751 — 59— pt. 46 17
16718 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Caggiano. They did get the records later on. What we did
then, the attorney for the union and the attorney for the International
of Retail Clerks arranged an oppointment up in the office, in the
New York office, to establish a hearing, and Mr. Almond, who was vice
president of the International, advised me that he can't do anything
until I would permit him or the accountant to go over the books and
a full report should be made.
The Chairman. Wlien you went back independent, after they
undertook to take you over into trusteeship, then you went inde-
pendent again?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Wliat I am trying to determine is this : Were yoi>
able to salvage your money ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Wliatever you had on hand you kept that?
Mr. Caggiano. That is correct ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. That went back into local 465 ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. So you had the money to operate on, and they
didn't get it?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. OK.
Mr. Kennedy. What has happened to the radiator repairmen?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I haven't followed up on it. I have their wel-
fare money yet in the bank.
Mr. Kennedy. Tliese radiator repairmen, where are they and what
has happened to them ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I don't know what happened to them.
Mr. Kennedy. They came to your meeting, voted to go inde-
pendent, and what happened to them since then ?
Mr. Caggiano. Nothing happened to them.
Mr. Kennedy. Are they still in your union ?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I don't know what is to be done with the wel-
fare money, because I am just waiting to see what is going to happen.
The Chairman. How much is involved ? How much welfare money
do you have ?
Mr. Caggiano. Around $500.
The Chairman. They have just disappeared, the radiator repair-
men?
Mr. Caggiano. They didn't disappear; they are still around, but
they haven't been organized.
Mr. Kennedy. So this is the life of a game employee during 4 or 5
years. He went from 254 of the Retail, Wholesale, and Department
Store Workers, to 222 of the Jewel ly Workers, to 465 of the lUE^
United Electrical Workers, to 465 Independent, to 433 of the Retail
Clerks, and to 465 Independent, and to 465 Confederated Unions of
America.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. That is where you arc now ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. What is the next move? Where are you going
next? Do you have any idea?
Mr. Caggiano. No. But I would like to establish this, and I would
like to go back to the Retail Clerks
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16719
The Chairman. Is that where you want to go ?
Mr. Caggiano. No, I don't want to go there, but I would like to
stress this point: The Retail Clerks after advising me or Mr. Almond
who was vice president of the Retail Clerks advised me to give him
a full report on the activity of local 433, and all of the documents.
He said to me that he was going to give me or give us a hearing.
The Chairman. What is that ?
Mr. Caggiano. A hearing on what took place at the executive board,
which was never done. That is why the International, I feel, that
International is not living up to their constitution.
Senator Church. Did you say that you wanted to go back to the
Retail Clerks?
Mr. Caggiano. I wanted to know exactly why.
Senator Church. Why tliey moved in to take over and established
a trusteeship ?
Mr. Caggiano. They moved in to take over and then they pushed
us out of the industry.
The Chairivian. They forced you into their union to begin with,
and then they kicked you out and you don't know why they kicked you
out?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right. We never had a hearing to that effect.
Senator Church. You have been in several international unions in
the course of your history here and each time you have had to establish
an independent union, and this is the third, or the second or third
independent union. Now you are affiliated with another international.
Why is the need to affiliate, since you have such difficulty getting on
with these international unions, and why do you need to affiliate ? Why
don't you just continue independent?
Mr. Caggiano. Well, I say this : Tliat the association of game peo-
ple, the Game Association, wanted to have a union that was affiliated
in order for us to conduct business.
Senator Church. In other words, the operators themselves wanted
you to have a home with some international union that was recognized
as a legitimate union.
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, more or less.
Senator Church. And it was really then in their interest and in the
interest of the appearance of things that you have an affiliation with
one of these international unions.
Mr. Caggiano. It was suggested that it would be more recognized
by having an international behind a local union.
Senator Church. Having a brand name, so to speak, and more
prestige and being affiliated with what was recognized as a legitimate
union organization.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right. I mean a legitimate mternational.
Senator Chltrcit. It is more respectable.
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
While you are asking me, and that is on the record, I have been witli
the IBE, and I have been with the lUE, and I have been with the Re-
tail Clerks, and I never got a fair decision made.
The Chairman. You have not had a fair decision made in anj^ of
them ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right ; that is correct.
The Chairman. The only time you get justice then is when you are
independent ?
16720 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Caggiano. I didn't get justice then. I was raided.
Mr. Kennedy. Are they treating you well now, the Confederated
Union ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, I say yes ; and I think they are more living up
to their rules, and it is a fine organization.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that a rival organization to the AFL-CIO ?
Mr. Caggiano. You may call it that, because all internationals that
don't belong to the AFL-CIO, are rival internationals.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
How many members do you say you have now ?
Mr. Caggiano. I have about 35 right now, paid members.
The Chairman. About 35 paying members ?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes, sir.
Mr. K!ennedy. You are in competition now with Mr. DeGrandis of
local 266?
Mr. Caggiano. Yes ; that is right.
Mr. KJENNEDY. The people have a choice between your union and Mr.
DeGrandis'?
Mr. Cagoiano. They will.
Mr. Kennedy. You are going to go after them now ?
Mr. Caggiano. That is right.
The Chairman. All right. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Abraham Gilbert.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Gilbert. I do.
TESTIMONY OP ABRAHAM GILBERT
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Gilbert. Abraham Gilbert, residing at 1697 Andrews Avenue,
New York City. Occupation is taxi driver.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. Do you waive counsel, do
you?
Mr. Gilbert Yes ; I do.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Prior to 1952, Mr. Gilbert, you operated a game
repair shop on 10th Avenue, New York City; is that right?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you knew many of the people in the game and
jukebox business?
Mr. Gilbert. Almost everybody.
Mr. Kennedy. In December of 1952, you were doing some reno-
vating work in the office of local 465 ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time was 465 in the IBEW, or I think it
wasinthelUREM?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. While you were doing the renovating work, one of
the officei-s or organizers of the local, Joseph Hirsch, resigned ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16721
Mr. Gilbert, That is right.
Mr. IvENNEDY. And whereupon the union president, Mr. Caggiano,
offered you the position of office manager.
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So you stopped being the repairman and the reno-
vator in the office and became the office manager of the local union?
Mr. Gilbert. Tliat is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you accepted the position?
Mr. Gilbert. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Then did you hold any other position other than
office manager ?
Mr. Gilbert. I was the vice president of the union.
Mr. Kennedy. You were vice president also ?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were elected to that position?
Mr. Gilbert. I was elected.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you hold any other position ? f
Mr. Gilbert. That is all.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, the records show that you were elected on
July 1, 1953, as financial secretary, did you know that?
Mr. Gilbert. I may have been, and I don't remember.
Mr. EJENNEDY. Did you know up to this moment that you had been
secretary, financial secretary, of the union?
Mr. Gilbert. I didn't, no.
]\Ir. Kennedy. Did you ever sign any checks?
Mr. Gilbert. No, I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever see any of the money ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, I collected the money.
Mr. Kennedy. I mean did you ever examine the books or handle the
money for the union ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, I had charge of the complete office and I han-
dled all of the incoming money.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you sign the checks ?
Mr. Gilbert. No, I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know where the money was kept ?
Mr. Gilbert. In the Clinton Trust, I believe.
Mr. Kennedy. Who signed the checks on that ?
Mr. Gilbert. I think there were two names, Caggiano and the treas-
urer, George Kolibash.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the records you were financial secre-
tary.
Mr. Gilbert. He was the treasurer.
The Chairman. What were the duties of the financial secretary?
"What was the financial secretary supposed to do ?
INIr. Gilbert. Keep the books, and the collection of the dues.
The Chairman. Did you keep the books?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And collected tlie dues?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
IVtr. Kennedy. What did you think Mr. Kolibasli was?
Mr. Gilbert. I think that he was treasurer.
ISIr. Kennedy. He was recording secretaiy.
Mr. Gilbert. All right. I am sorry.
16722 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. While you were with the union, you received $75 a
week ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
]VIi\ Kennedy. Salary. And $25 expenses; is tliat right?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you remained with the imion until June of
1955?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. When the local was merged with 433 ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time you told Mr. Caggiano there wasn't
enough money to pay your salary, and so you were out?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. If any company became a member of the game asso-
ciation, it was necessary for the employees of that company to belong
to local 465?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And AAMONY, the game association, provided
the union with a list of the locations of the association members,
is that right, lists of the locations ?
Mr. Gilbert. Only when they had trouble.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlien they had trouble, what was the procedure that
you would follow then?
Mr. Gilbert. They would send us a note that one of their locations
was being breached, and that we should send a picket there.
Mr. Kennedy. And would you then send the picket around?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliere would you get the picket ?
Mr. Gilbert. We had one steady picket and from time to time we
would hire somebody off the street.
Mr. KJENNEDY. What kind of a picket was this man that you had
steady?
Mr. Gilbert. A lovely man.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to select him ?
Mr. Gilbert. He needed the job and we needed him.
The Chairman. How much did you pay him ?
Mr. Gilbert. The minimiun rate of $1 an hour.
The Chairman. You didn't go over the minimum ?
Mr. Gilbert. Never. We needed the money ourselves.
Mr. Kennedy. They would call up from the association and tell you
where the picket line should be ?
Mr. Gilbert. They would fuiTiish a list, and we would decide where
to send the picket.
Mr. Kennedy. Were they very formal when they would call ?
Mr. Gilbert. They had to be.
Mr. Kennedy. They had to be?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. W\\j was that?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, they were asking for something.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat sort of thing would they say ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, they would tell us that one of their members'
mechanics had just lost a part of his income because the location was
beached and, wori-ying about our mechanics, we would send the picket
over to the location.
laiPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16723
Senator Church. Did the mechanic ever call himself ?
Mr. Gilbert. Oh, we insisted on that.
Senator Church. But the original contact was made by the oper-
ator.
Mr. Gilbert. Yes ; that was to expedite and save time, you know.
Mr. Kennedy. Then would you make up a little slip showing what
needed to be done ?
Mr. Gilbert. Exactly.
The CHAimiAN. I hand you here three handwritten slips, one
marked No. 1, and the other marked No. 2, in red, and in order for
identification, and I will mark the third one No. 3 in red.
They say the red has some significance.
Mr. Gilbert. Just make it easy for yourself, Senator.
The Chairman. No. 3 in blue then, and I will hand them to you
and I will ask you to examine them and state if you identify them.
(Documents handed to the witness.)
The Chairman. You have examined them ? »,
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. What are they ?
Mr. Gilbert. These are complaint slips, and the numbers on them
indicate the number of their importance.
The Chairman. ^Yho made out those memorandums?
Mr. Gilbert. I did.
The Chairman. They are in your handwriting?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. They were made out by you in the course of your
duties as an officer of that union?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. They may be made exhibits Nos. 16A, 16B, and 160.
(Documents referred to marked "Exhibits 16A, 16B, and 160" for
reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Let us just go through one of those slips. I would
like to ask you about the procedure followed. On some of those slips
you have a figure of "1" in red.
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What would that indicate?
Mr. Gilbert. To give it immediate attention, if possible.
Mr. Kennedy. Some people that got priority; is that right?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, it was a question of giving service to a fellow
that had a slip there the longest, because we didn't give service the
very same day.
Mr. Kennedy. So if the "1" was in red, he got some priority ; is that
correct ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right. All slips in No. 1 were given priority
over all that were marked No. 2.
Mr. Kennedy. You have a slip there that shows "Operator" and it
has "Old Reliable Location" ; is that right?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you give the address ?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then it says the location is breached by "Tony or
Gus".
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
16724 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. And it has the date of August 5.
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. It says —
Letter sent September 9, 1953, pickets sent September 14, 1953,
and then —
Owner called and is going to move Tony and Gus from Ms premises.
That was successful, then ?
Mr. Gilbert. Sure.
Mr. Kennedy (reading) :
September 16, Joe Madden is going to location to see if he can get back service.
Then-
Spoke to Bill Bartender, who told boss to remove present machine and put back
Joe Madden.
So that was successful ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Let's take another one. This is another slip that
concerns the Progressive Amusement Machine Co., Inc., operated by
A. Middleburg. This slip contains figure No. 2 in red.
Mr. Gilbert. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. That indicates a lesser priority.
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
May I explain something ? No. 1 might take about a week or so to
get to the text No. 1, but when we had very little work you could fol-
low No. 2 and if that was successful, another No. 2 may go in 1 day.
So there is actually no way of gaging the time between these.
Senator Church. Let me ask this: What was the basis of your
assessment of priority? Wliy were some given priority treatment
and others given secondary treatment ?
Mr. Gilbert. Because of the length of time that we had the com-
plaint on file.
Mr. Kennedy. This slip concerning Progressive Amusement Co.
would seem to indicate that after the union picketed and the original
operator became satisfied, then the operator would remove his com-
plaint in the case and the union would be relieved of the obligation
of picket ; is that right ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Once you put the picket in, and the association mem-
ber then became satisfied, he made some arrangement with the man
who jumped his location; once that had been done, the picket was
removed ; is that right ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, if it proved that there was a union serviceman
on the machine that was in there.
Mr. Kennedy. It was just ordinarily a question of the association
member being satisfied; was it not? You didn't send somebodj^ out
yourself. If the association member was satisfied, that was satis-
factory ?
Mr. Gilbert. That was satisfactory.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't follow up to find out who was going to
be servicing those machines from then on ?
Mr. Gilbert. We did.
Mr. Kennedy. Always ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16725
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Every time ?
IVIr. Gilbert. Yes, sir. When we settled a claim, it had to be a
union service machine in the location.
Mr. Kennedy. "We have here another slip of paper that I would
like to ask you about.
I might say, Mr. Chairman, that on those slips we have a total —
and I don't know if we have them all — a total of 231 of those slips.
You were quite busy providing the picket; were you not?
Mr. Gilbert. Our picket worked every day.
The Chairman. The Chair hands you three more slips. Just for
purpose of identification, I will mark on those in blue, "4," "o,"
and "6."
Mr. Gilbert. All right. I am getting used to that color.
The Chairman. You may examine them and state if you identify
them. *
(The documents were handed to the witness.)
The Chairman. Do you recognize those slips?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir. I wrote them.
The Chairman. You wrote them ?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Wliat are they ?
Mr. Gilbert. They are requests from the association as to the dis-
position of the cases mentioned here.
The Chairman. Those three may be made exhibits Nos. 16-D,
16-E, and 16-F.
(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 16-D, 16-E, and
16-F" for reference and may be found in the files of the select com-
mittee. )
Mr. Kennedy. This last slip states at the top, "Association asked
about these cases," and then you list the various cases.
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was where the association called to find out if
the picket had been placed and how successful you had been ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is ri^ht.
Mr. Kennedy. The miion existed, did it not, with the help and
assistance of the association ?
Mr. Gilbert. It did.
Mr. Kennedy. It didn't exist for the employees ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, the employees didn't need a union. They
made very good wages.
Mr. Kennedy. So the group that needed the union was the associ-
ation member, the operator ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Just going back to tliis picket once again, he was a
rather elderly man, was he ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did you get an elderly man ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, I got an elderly man because I knew that there
would be no violence, he wouldn't look like the type that would attack
anybody, and most every time that I sent him to a location I would
call the local precinct and tell them that I am placing a picket at
such-and-such a bar, one man picketing peacefully.
16726 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You made a statement to us, I believe, earlier about
an asociation, the relationship between an association and a picket,
did you not ?
Mr. Gilbert. Would you refresh me on it ?
Mr, Kennedy. Well, a statement to the effect of what good is an
association without a picket.
Mr. Gilbert. I don't recall making that statement.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, is that correct? Would you say that that
generally follows this arrangement ?
Mr. Gilbert. I don't see how an association can exist without
having a picket, the force of a picket. Of course, that is only my
opinion.
Mr. Kennedy. But that summarizes your point of view in what
good is an association without a picket ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
The Chairman. You would say you are experienced ?
Mr. Gilbert. I certainly am.
The Chairman. That fortifies your opinion somewhat?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, I wish I had the knowledge to understand that.
Senator Church. That picket was quite a necessary instrument of
the association, was he not?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, it was a byproduct. It turned out to be very
useful to them.
Senator Church, Very useful to the association ?
Mr. Gilbert. Sure.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever find that the picket you sent out
picketed the wrong place ? Did that happen ?
Mr. Gilbert. I don't think that ever happened.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have any association member ever tele-
phone you and tell you that the picket wasn't located exactly in the
the right place ?
Mr. Gilbert. Do you mean his position? Do you mean if he
rested, if he wasn't in front of the place when he should be there?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Gilbert. Well, that has happened on numerous times. The
operator would ride by a location of his that was being picketed and
find that the picket was not on duty. He would immediately call the
union, I would try to get in touch with the picket to find out why he
wasn't working. But being an old man, I allowed him coffee breaks.
Mr. Kennedy. At one time you placed a picket line at a particular
location which later proved to be owned by Frank Breheney ; is that
right?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. B-r-e-h-e-n-e-y. We had some testimony on him
yesterday. That was the LaSalle Music Co. He is a man with some
underworld connections ?
Mr. Gilbert. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, did you understand subsequently that he had
some underworld connections?
Mr. Gilbert. I personally don't think so.
Mr. Kennedy. When you put the picket line in front of the loca-
tion, did he get angry ?
Mr. Gilbert. He did.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16727
Mr. Kennedy. Did he come to the office and threaten you and Mr.
Caggiano?
Mr. Gilbert. He threatened me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Caggiano was there ?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Caggiano said nothing? I mean, he didn't
take any position on it; is that right?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, he told him that he was mistaken.
Mr. Kennedy. So the picket was removed ?
Mr. Gilbert. The picket was removed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Breheney was nonunion at the time?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the picket line was removed ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the reason for it?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, he took the picket away from the place And
brought him back to the union.
Mr. Kennedy. Why, if he was nonunion ? Because Mr. Breheney
got so angry ?
Mr. Gn.BERT. I imagine so, and when he took the picket away, the
picket got scared and quit and I had no one else to send.
Mr. Kennedy. Breheney was an associate of Dutch Schultz at one
time?
Mr. Gilbert. I wouldn't know about that.
Mr. Kennedy. Did many people come to your union meetings ?
Mr. Gilbert. Not too many.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Mostly just the officers ?
Mr. Gilbert. The officers and some members that were union-
minded.
Mr. Kennedy. jSIore than two or three ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, sometmies 2 or 3, and sometimes 20.
Mr. Kennedy. Was the miion ever in need of money for operating
purposes ?
Mr. Gilbert. At the end of each month we were always in need of
money to pay the salaries.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you get the money ?
Mr. Gilbert. Well, Mr. Caggiano would borrow it somewhere.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he borrow money from the operators?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes.
Mr. KJENNEDY. The operators would advance the money ?
Mr. Gilbert. Advance the money on future labels.
Mr. Kennedy. For tlie operations of the union ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Mr. Ivennedy. Thank you.
Mr. Gilbert. Thank you.
The Chairman. Are there any further questions ?
Senator Chuech. I have just one or two, Mr. Chairman.
Did you ever have any dealings directly with the employees, that is
to say, did you ever go to them directly and attempt to get them to
become members of the union ? Employees of the operators, I mean.
Mr. Gilbert. Employees ? Of course. I Imew every one of them
and I always talked union to them.
Senator Church. Did you ever undertake to do any bargaining for
them or on their behalf with the operators concerning wages or hours?
16728 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Gilbert. That wasn't my concern.
Senator Church. That wasn't your concern ?
Mr. Gilbert. No. I was j ust a clerk in the office.
Senator Church. To your knowledge, did the president of local 433
or 465 ever
Mr. Gilbert. I wasn't in 433.
Senator Church. You were in 465 ?
Mr. Gilbert. 465.
Senator Church. Did the president of local 465, to your knowledge,
ever have any negotiations concerning wages, hours, or working con-
ditions with the operators ?
Mr. Gilbert. Yes. We had a contract drawn up.
Senator Church. Between the union and the operators?
Mr. Gilbert. And the operators.
Senator Church. You never had any difficulties, though, between
the employees and the operators, did you ; that is, no strikes or any-
thing?
Mr. Gilbert. We never had any trouble ; no.
Senator Church. As a matter of fact, would you say that these
workers, as far as wages and hours are concerned, were not in need
of a union ?
Mr. Gilbert. No. They were well paid.
Senator Church. It was just the operators who were in need of a
union ?
Mr. Gilbert. That is right.
Senator Church. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right. Thank you very much.
Mr. Gilbert. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, now we are going to call a person
who actively worked at this trade, an employee. I would like to call
Mr. George Kolibash.
The Chairman. Mr. Kolibash, come forward.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kolibash. I do.
TESTIMONY OF GEORGE KOLIBASH
The Chairman. Wliat is your name ?
Mr. Kolibash. George Kolibash, 441 West 50th Street. I am a
self-employed mechanic.
The Chairman. You are a self-employed mechanic ?
Mr. Kolibash. Yes.
The Chairman. You waive counsel, do you, Mr. Kolibash ?
Mr. Kolibash. Yes.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. You are a free-lance mechanic; is that right?
Mr. Kolibash. Free-lance mechanic.
Mr. Kennedy. You are engaged in a partnership at the present
time with another man ?
Mr. Kolibash. Yes.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16729
Mr. Kennedy. And you serve about 10 operators ?
^Ir. KoLiBASH. About 10 operators,
Mr. Kennedy. And service approximately 120 machines?
Mr. KoLiBASii. About 120 or 130 machines.
Mr. Kennedy. You are paid at the rate of $2 per machine ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you pay your own expenses, except the cost of
parts ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. YeSj sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Tliat is $2 per machine per week; is that right?
Mr. KoLiBASii. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So that is some $210 for the two of you ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. "Well, we also answer spot calls where we make a few
bucks more every week.
Mr. Kennedy. How many hours do you work ? '
Mr. KoLiBASH. I would say the average is between 10 and 12 hours
a day.
Mr. Ivennedy. How many days a week ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Six days a week.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any vacations?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No. I have had one in the last year for the first
time in 7 years.
Mr. Kennedy. The first time in 7 years ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. That is, since you have been working at this?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Otherwise you have worked a 6-day week ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. A 6-day week.
Mr, Kennedy. At least 10 hours a day ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Ten hours a day.
Mr. Kennedy. In view of that, you were anxious to have a miion ; is
that right?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. And to try to improve the wages, hours, and condi-
tions of the employees ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr, Kennedy. And as far as the freelance mechanics, they were
the ones that needed the help and assistance ; is that right ?
Mr. KoLiBASH, That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The self-employed people, of course, would take care
of themselves, but the freelance mechanics are the ones that have to
work the hours and conditions that you do ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You have to be available all the time; is that right?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been in this game machine field for about
23 years?
Mr. KoLiBASH, That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Prior to 1951 you worked for a number of different
operators ?
Mr. KoLiBAsH. That is right,
Mr. Kennedy. In June 1951, you and a group of self-employed
mechanics joined Cagiano's local 465 ?
16730 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. For the reason that you have described, that you
wanted to improve the working conditions ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were subsequently elected recording secre-
tary of local 465 ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Have few members attended the meetings ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Very few.
Mr. Kennedy. And ordinarily it was just the union officers that were
present ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Very seldom did any members actually come? There
were between 150 and 200 members in the union ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And 15 to 20 were self-employed, freelance
mechanics?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the remaining were actually operators ; is that
right?
Mr. KoLroASH. They were either operators or employed mechanics.
Mr. Kennedy. But the union was dominated by operators them-
selves ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right. That is, in numbers.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat benefit did the operators receive from the
union ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Well, their main benefits was the picket.
Mr. Kennedy. The picket ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The union would provide the picket for them?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You would agree with the previous witness when
you have an association that you have to have a picket ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. That is, to have it successful ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So local 465 would provide the picket for the mem-
ber of the association ?
Mr. Kolibash. Tliat is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The owner- operators in the union were required
to pay not only the dues but they were required to pay the label
fees?
Mr, Kolibash. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the label fees were what financed the picket?
Mr. Kolibash. I didn't hear you.
Mr. Kennedy. The label fees were what financed the picket ?
Mr. Kolibash. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. I have the minute book here of local 465, which
states that —
The new contract between our local 465 and the association read, discussed
and accepted by our membership. Motion made to accept new contract and
ratify same.
Tliat is November 3, 1954.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16731
The Chairman, Did you keep the minutes of that meeting ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. I kept the minutes.
The Chairman. I present to you what purports to be the original
minute book of your k)cal. I will ask you to examine it at page 20
and 21, and state if those are the original minutes of your meeting, and
if you recorded those minutes.
(The document was lianded to the witness.)
Mr. KoLiBASH. These are the original minutes and I recorded them.
Mr. Kennedy. The only point there is that the new contract of
November 3, 1954, between 465 and the association was read at that
time and agreed to.
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. I notice on page 21, some 2 weeks later, a special
meeting was called on November 17, 1954, and the meeting was called
by you as recording secretary. '
The reason was to correct or alleviate some or all of the poor
working conditions of the servicemen and mechanics "in our industry."
Then you proceed to enumerate them.
No. 1, the workday is too long, 10, 12, or 14 hours a day.
No. 2, the workweek is too long, usually 7 days per week.
No. 3, the standard rate of service charged per week per game is too low.
There is too much chiseling going on.
No. 4, taking abuse from location owners.
No. 5, being expected to make collection, delivery, prices, cleaning machines.
No. 6, repairing brandnew equipment with no compensation from sellers.
No. 7, repairing newly converted equipment with no compensation.
No. 9, get paid vacations, paid holidays.
No. 10, being allowed to get sick with no fear of losing work.
You have a total of 16 complaints. Why hadn't that been all in-
cluded in the contract that you had agreed to a week before ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Well, after that contract was read, I realized that
that contract wasn't meant for my group.
Mr. Kennedy. It didn't help you people at all ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No, that only benefited the employed mechanics.
Mr. Kennedy. Who were the employers ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. The hourly paid people.
Mr. Kennedy. The self-employed people ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No. The hourly paid people.
Mr. Ivennedy. The people who were hourly and self-employed?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Well, I am self-employed.
Mr. Kennedy. I mean the owner-operators?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right. They got the benefit of that contract.
The Chairman. Did you have this meeting in which you listed aU
of these grievances or matters that you thought should receive
attention ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Then I called this meeting.
The Chairman. What happened? Did you get any of these things
corrected ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. None of them.
The Chairman. As far as you know, do they still persist in the
industry ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. They still exist.
The Chairman. Sir?
Mr. KoLiBASH. They still exist.
The Chairman. None of them have been corrected ?
16732 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. KoLiBASH. None of them.
The Chairman. Have you found any of these labor organizations
in this particular field, in this amusement and vending music field,
that look out after the interest of the men who actually do the work ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Well, to date they haven't helped me in 23 years.
The Chairman. In your 23 years of experience, you would say
they haven't helped you any up to now ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Up to now ; no.
The Chairman. You have to pay dues, do you ?
Mr, Kolibash. At one time I had dues, and as an officer they finally
gave me a break and said I wouldn't have to pay them any more.
The Chairman. For a long time you paid dues ?
Mr. Kolibash. I paid dues.
The Chairman. How long since you have paid dues ?
Mr. Kolibash. Well, I don't belong to the union right now.
The Chairman. You don't belong to it ?
Mr. Kolibash. No.
The Chairman. All right.
Senator Church. In other words, you not only have listed 16 dif-
ferent grievances, but you would be in disagreement with the last wit-
ness in that the employees involved in this industry are, in fact, in
need of a union that would represent their interest, and the wages
and working conditions are in need of real improvement ?
Mr. Kolibash. They certainly are.
Senator Church. But in 23 years of your experience, the unions
with which you have had any dealings haven't furnished any real rep-
resentation for these employees at all ?
Mr. Kolibash. No, they haven't.
Senator Church. Would it be too much to say that they are instru-
mentalities of the association members operating in the interest of the
association and just masquerading as legitimate unions?
Mr. Kolibash. Well, I think here and there attempts have been
made to try to improve it, but every time
Senator Church. But these attempts have not been successful ?
Mr. Kolibash. Every time the attempts are made, tliey drop.
Mr. Kennedy. I think we differentiate between the employees of the
operators. The contract would cover the employees of the operators,,
would it not ?
Mr. Kolibash. That is ri^ht.
Mr. Kennedy. And I believe maybe the previous witness had that
in mind when he said they don't need a imion.
Mr. Kolibash. They are well paid.
Mr. Kennedy. They are well paid anyway ?
Mr. Kolibash. That is right. They are on a 5-day week. The}' get
their vacations. If they are sick, I assume they still get paid.
Mr. Kennedy. So the contract would appear to help or assist them,
but they get paid far more than the contract provides anyway ?
Mr. Kolibash. Yes. They are paid over the scale.
Mr. Kennedy. I believe that is what they had in mind, that the only
group that is not covered or the group that needs the union is the
freelance mechanics and they are the only ones that are not covered.
Mr. Kolibash. That is rijrht.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16733
Mr. Kennedy. They are the ones that receive no benefit. Still, at
this present time, you work some 60 hours a week at least, from 60 to
70 hours a week ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You were financial secretary of local 433 ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. No; recording secretary of local 433. You were
recording secretary ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Recording secretary of 465.
Mr. Kennedy. That was after 465 merged with 433; is that right?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes.
INIr. Kennedy. Then after that happened, you became financial sec-
retary of 433? , , ^
Mr. KoLiBASH. I was appointed to the position.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever examine the books ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No, I didn't.
INIr. Kennedy. "Who was in charge of all the books and records ?
]\Ir. KoLiBASH. Well, the books were in the office, out in Flushing,
and working in Manhattan and the Bronx, I very, very seldom get
out there, so I never saw any books.
]\Ir. Kennedy. Were you supposed to sign the checks?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you sign all the checks ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. In blank?
Mr. KoLiBASH. In blank.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what happened to the money?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Well, my signature and James Caggiano's signature
were required on each check.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what happened after you signed the
checks in blank ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. I assumed all the checks were meant for union ex-
penses, salaries.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No, I don't.
Mr. Kennedy. You never knew how the money was being used ?
]\Ir. KoLIBASH. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Who appointed you treasurer of the union ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. James Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you receive as pay ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No pay.
Mr. Kennedy. Nothing ?
Mr. KoLTBASH. Nothing.
INIr. Kennedy. You did not know that Mr. Cohen was receiving
weekly payments after he severed his connection with local 433?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No ; I didn't know that.
Mr. Kennedy. You left the union. Wien did j'ou leave the union ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. Well, I assumed our union had been knocked out
of the box, but after listening to Jimmy, I understand the union is
still in existence, but I am not an active member of it.
Mr. Kennedy. Are you going back into it ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. No. I belong to an association now of self-employed
servicemen.
36751— 59— pt. 46 18
16734 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. You are going to form your own association ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. We already have it formed.
Mr. Kennedy. An association to protect yourselves ?
Mr. KoLiBASH. That is right ; our own group.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right. Thank you very much.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Vladeck.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear tlie evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Vladeck. I do.
TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN C. VLADECK
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Vladeck. My name is Steplien C. Vladeck. I reside at 37
Riverside Drive, New York City. My office address is 280 Broadway,
New York City. I am regional counsel to the Retail Clerks Interna-
tional Association.
The Chairman. You waive counsel, do you ?
Mr. Vladeck. Yes, I do.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Vladeck, how long have you been with the
Retail Clerks?
Mr. Vladeck. I was brought into the Retail Clerks in March of
1957.
Mr. Kennedy. What were you doing prior to that ?
Mr. Vladeck. I have been an attorney in the practice of law in the
city of New York, representing labor organizations and engaged in
the general practice of law.
Mr. Kennedy. In March or so of 1957, did the International Union
go into New York and take over certain local unions of the Retail
Clerks?
Mr. Vladeck. Yes, it did ; and it was in connection with that that
my firm was retained as counsel for the trustee and for the Inter-
national.
Mr. Kennedy. One of the primary situations with which you had
to deal concerned a vice president of the Retail Clerks, a man by the
name of Paul Lafayette ; is that correct ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct.
Mr. KLennedy. He has already featured to some extent in the hear-
ings that have been held by this committee over the period of the last
couple of yeare.
\ ou also went in and took over some locals that were operating in
the field of coin-operating machines ?
Mr. Vladeck. Yes. There were — at least so far as the records
were concerned — three local unions which had been chartered during
the period of Mr. Lafayette's tenure as vice president, between Sep-
tember of 1952 and the imposition of International trusteeship in
March of 1957. They were locals 1690, 433, and a local called
Amusement and Concessionaires Local 413.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16735
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us what the situation was as far as
local 483 and local KiDO was concerned, and then I would like you to
move into the situation as far as Mr. DeGrandis is concerned.
Mr. Vladeck. With regard to local 433, oiu- International repre-
sentatives went to the office of local 433, located on Northern Boule-
vard, in Flushing, found no one of authority in the office, found no
books or records in the office. All there was was a petty cash box.
They left a notice of the trusteeship, signed by President Suf ridge;
<3hanged the locks; and sent by registered mail to the last address
which Ave had a copy of the notice of trusteeship imposed by the
International president.
We heard nothing from any of the so-called representatives of
433 for a period of several weeks. f
We later discovered that two of them were operating out of a
store front in the West Forties, under the heading of local 531, and
also under the title of local 465. They were Alexander Gohen and
James Caggiano.
We felt at that time, and still feel, that their lack of responsiveness
to the IntemationaPs imposition of trust, the absence of books and
records ; the fact that it took us weeks to uncover who and where their
membership was, and some additional facts that I would like to go
into in a moment, warranted the International's action in suspending
them from office and revoking the charter of local 433.
The situation with regard to 1690 was quite different. Local 1690's
officers immediately came in. They had presented us w^itli their books
and records, which w^ere turned over to the district attorney of New
York County, who has checked them and found no violations of law.
We found that they had membei'ship lists. We found that they had
a collective-bargaining agreement. And we found that they were
willing to cooperate with us in the administration and correction of
their affairs. We had many conversations with the officers of that
local and with the officers of the Music Operators Association of New
York, with whom they had an agreement.
After considerable soul searching, quite frankly, it was determined
that that charter would not be revoked, that we would continue that
local under International supervision, with the clear-cut understand-
ing that the local was to function as a labor organization; was to
negotiate wnth regard to wages, hours, and other conditions; that the
local would not in any way act as enforcer by reason of loss of loca-
tions or obtaining locations for members of the association, and that
if this was the kind of union w^hich the industry was willing to accept,
this was the only kind of union which we were willing to permit to
continue under our charter.
With regard to Mr. DeGrandis, he at the time was an officer of local
413. The local, as I indicated, had jurisdiction over amusement and
concessionary employees. In fact, it had less than 100 members, all of
whom were employed in a hospital in Staten Island.
Our representatives found in his office no membership lists; no
books; no records; no indication at all of the existence of a union.
They found two items, a gmi and a billy. Mr, DeGrandis was forth-
with expelled from the Retail Clerks and his charter was lifted.
Mr. Kennedy. That, of course, is of extreme importance because
he became and is now the dominant figure in New York.
16736 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
When yon went in to find out how he was meeting his responsibili-
ties as a union official, you found no books of records, no membership
lists of any kind ?
Mr. Vladeck. None.
Mr. Kennedy. There were only two items in the office. One was
a gun and the other was a billy ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. This was what date?
Mr. Vladeck. This was March of 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. March of 1957.
The Chairman. Is this the man that was testified about here this
morning, that is undertaking to organize and monopolize the whole
area?
Mr. Vladeck. He is connected with local 266 which Mr. Kasper
said was the local attempting to monopolize this industry.
The Chairman. It is now undertaking or did start a program to
take over the whole industry?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct, Senator.
The Chairman. Organize the whole industry and have a monopoly ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Where you had a proper Teamster Union, local 202,
which had been active in the field. Then you have the situation where
Mr. DeGrandis is thrown out of the Ketail Clerks, and they fomid
these two items in the office. He then gets a charter from the Teamsters
and becomes active in that field. The Joint Council under Jolin
O'Rourke takes jurisdiction away from the good Teamsters Union
and turns it over to this twice-convicted felon, and he takes over the
union and is trying to gain control and domination over the whole of
New York City.
Mr. Vladeck. I think there is some additional history that should
be of interest to the committee. We have found, as I indicated to your
investigators, I frequently must state in admiration of my own clients,
the courage they have shown in fighting in this industry since March
1957 for the continuation of one clean local, immediately after the in-
ternational placed these locals under trusteeship, local 1690, in con-
junction with the Music Operators, brought an action in the New York
courts to enjoin local 531, which was a local then in the control of
Alex Cohen, Al Cohen, who had been secretary-treasurer of local 433
of the Retail Clerks, a charter which we suspended.
We were successful in obtaining from Judge Coleman in New York
an order which, in effect, wiped 531 out.
Immediately another local came into existence, another letterhead
union, local 19.
The Music Operators proceeded against them in a similar action
which, unfortunately, we couldn't afford to join in, but for which we
provided information and witnesses, and that local, too, was enjoined
from its activity. Subsequently, local 202 showed an interest in this
field, and we were frankly surprised because we felt that local 202 's in-
terest was a legitimate one, at least we hoped it was
Mr. Kennedy. That is Teamsters ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is Teamsters, but that is a local which was under
the direction of Tom Hickey.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16737
We were very shortl}' advised that it wasn't 202, but it was going
to be 266 that we were going to be faced with by way of competition
for the organization of people in this industry.
We have since that time attempted to organize in the industry. We
have attempted to protect our contracts. We have run into some
serious difficulties by reason of the existence of local 266. We are
currently, for example, under injunction, issued by the supreme court
in Kings County, because we picketed a location and the employer
came forward after we were picketing that location — a nonunion loca-
tion— and alleged that he had an agreement with local 266. We stated
before the court many of the facts which are being testified to here
before this committee with regard to 266 and Mr. DeGrandis. None-
theless we are currently under temporary restraint and cannot engage
in any activity to protect a contract and to protect a place of employ-
ment for our members.
Senator Church. Mr. Vladeck, at this point let me review this pic-
ture so I am sure I have it right.
To begin with, there were three locals that were affiliated with the
Retail Clerks; is that correct? One was 1690, one was 433, and one
was headed up by Mr. DeGrandis. What was the number of that?
Mr. Vladeck. 413.
Senator Church. 413?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct.
Senator Church. As I understand it, the international was con-
cerned because of reports coming to it that none of these three unions
were living up to the standards imposed by the international, or were
in fact legitimate unions operating to protect the employees that were
their members.
Mr. Vladeck. That is absolutely correct.
Senator Church. So then responding to this, the international
moved in to make its own investigation with the idea of establishing
appropriate trusteeships.
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct.
Senator Church. In two of the cases you found no evidence of any
sort of legitimate union operations going on, and thereupon sus-
pended the charters and expelled the locals. Those two cases were
433 and 413 ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct.
Senator Church. In one of the cases, namely, local 1690, you under-
took to establish a trusteeship, or you did not suspend the charter.
What happened in the case of 1690 ? I am not clear on that.
Mr. Vladeck. 1690 was continued under trusteeship.
Senator Church. Under trusteeship ?
Mr. Vladeck. And it is still under trusteeship.
Senator Church. "What is the purpose of a trusteeship in the labor
union movement ?
Mr. Vladeck. The purpose of the trusteeship was to make sure that
the local in the first instance was operating in accordance with the
international constitution and bylaws.
In two of these cases the local was not. In the third it was. The
continuation of the local trusteeship was to prevent any attempt to
subvert this particular local union to the pattern which we unfor-
tunately found in this industry, and to make sure that the local pro-
16738 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
vided nothing more than a trade union which was interested in organ-
izing employees and negotiating with employers with regard to wages,
hours, and other conditions of employment.
Senator Church. And you continued the trusteeship in order to give
international supervision and control over the union in order to work
toward these objectives ?
Mr. Vladeck. And also, to use a phrase of yours. Senator, to provide
it with a brand name so that we are in effect staking our reputations on
the legitimacy of the current operation of local 1690.
Senator Chtjrch. And local 1690, as of this date, is under the trus-
teeship of the International Retail Clerks ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct.
I would like to add, if I may, two other things :
We did attempt a rehabilitation of the membership of local 433 in
a different way. We advised all of the members of local 433 whose
names we could find on our international roster that we would be
willing to transfer them to a newly established local, local 888, to be
administered by the international, and in the meantime we attempted
to gain information by discussing with the employers' association in
the game industry what terms or conditions of employment could be
established.
In the early stages of our discussion we were promised cooperation,
and we were told that they would welcome legitimate union organi-
zation.
We were later advised in effect that since we didn't offer labels for
sale, and since we were really not concerned with protecting locations
of employers as between employers,, but only concerned with organ-
izing people and establishing wage scales, that they did not extend the
cooperation which they had originally offered and, in effect, told ub
indirectly if not directly, that they would prefer to operate through
organizations which were less careful in terms of their administration.
Senator Church. In this connection, were your negotiations with
Mr. Blatt, the witness who yesterday testified as spokesman for the
operators' association ?
Mr. Vladeck. Yes. I had only one telephone conversation myself,
with Mr. Blatt, but I do know that Mr, Ammond, who is the inter-
national vice president and trustee of these locals, had several conver-
sations, in which Mr. Blatt originally had promised cooperation which
was never forthcoming and, further, where we much later — more re-
cently— have indicated to local 1690 that they may organize employees
in the game industry legitimately, we have met the resistance of tliis
same group.
Mr. Kennedy. It is also of some significance. Senator, that Mr.
DeGrandis took over this union, local 266, shortly after Mr. Hoffa
became international president of the Teamsters.
The Chairman. What local was DeGrandis in ?
Mr. Vladeck. 413.
The Chairman. How long was it after that before he became offi-
cial in this 266 ?
Mr. Vladeck. I can't give you the exact date. The first time it
came to our attention was about a year, approximately a year.
The Chairman. Within a year afterwards it came to your attention
But you don't know how long he had actually been operating ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16739
Mr. Vladeck. Well, Senator, local 266 had existed within the Team-
sters, but had jurisdiction over parks and municipal employees. It
had nothing to do with the juke box or game industry. When we first
heard that DeGrandis was with the Teamstei-s and with this local,
we assumed that in some way this was the continuation of this hos-
pital organization that he had had under our charter, contrary to the
charter but nonetheless in the Retail Clerks.
We subsequently found 266 going into the coin vending machine
industry.
The Chairman. In other words, when you discovered he was in it,
local 266 was already in the coin machine industry, undertaking to
organize it?
Mr. Vladeck. Just about.
Mr. Kennedy. According to our understanding, local 266 existed,
but for a period of time existed mostly just on paper. It had not been
active for a period of time. It became reactivated, according to what
information we can get, and Mr. DeGrandis is less than cooperative,
from what information we can obtain it became reactive approximately
or around January of 1958, within a couple of months after Mr. Hoffa
became international president.
Mr, Vladeck. The first effects that we felt of it directly, and by
"we," I am talking about the international, not the industry, was in
the spring of 1958, which is why I said approximately that time.
Mr. Kennedy. These locals that you found, these three local unions,
were acting as enforcement arms for the associations rather than in
the interests of the employees, to a lesser extent local 1690 but as far
as the other two locals ?
Mr. Vladeck. The other two locals, there was no question about it.
Local 1690 has taken the position with us that at least since 1953, while
it is true that there have been occasions where there has been location
picketing, they certainly were not engaged in the same kind of rela-
tionship with the Music Operators Association, which apparently
existed in the other locals.
Mr. Kennedy. Even in local 1690, which you allowed to continue
to exist, you made some drastic changes in their procedures ?
Mr. Vladeck. Well, the first thing we did, and I think the commit-
tee is aware of it, was to place a ban on all picketing of any kind unless
it had the approval of the international union. For a substantial
period of time after the first imposition of the trusteeship, 1690 was
not permitted to picket because, quite frankly, we wanted to demon-
strate to the industry that this was not going to be that kind of a
luiion ; that we weren't going to be at the beck and call of the associa-
tion to enforce their locations rather than to enforce our collective bar-
gaining agreement.
The Chairman. What you are really trying to do with 1690 is to
establish and develop it into a union, a legitimate union, to service the
interests of the working people ?
Mr. Vladeck. That is correct, sir.
The Chairman. And not to let it be used as a pawn just for the
protection of contracts, collusion, and which are designed simply to
serve the interests of the operators and the racketeers.
Mr. Vladeck. That is exactly right. This is what we have been
hoping to do.
16740 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. We hope you succeed in bringing about that kind
of a union.
Mr. Vladeck. We do, too. I can only say to this committee that
it has been a very difficult experience ; we hope that some awareness
on the part of the employers in this industry of their responsibility
will result in less of this paper organization which we are constantly
faced with, and the competition of unions which are created in some-
body's mind, which print labels, and there it is.
The Chairman. I would like to ask you something just for my
information, and which would not necessarily be a part of this record.
If you have any ideas as to what kind of law is needed, and how
it may be drafted, to prevent these so-called paper locals or floating
locals or locals that are built around an individual, a charter issued
to the individual, I would like to have the suggestions.
I think that is one of the evils that we encounter in this, that there
are charters issued which are in the hands of people who are not con-
cerned with legitimate unionism, but who use those charters for
illegitimate purposes, just to exploit with them.
Mr. Vladeck. Senator McClellan, charters are not issued. They
just type them. There is nothing in the law, either the Federal law
or the New York law, which requires anywhere, other than the filing
under the Taft-Hartley Act in compliance with sections 9 (f), (g),
and (h), which requires a union to have identity other than that
which it, itself, creates.
So all of these organizations can, in effect, get a half dozen people
together and say, "tomorrow we are going to call ourselves God-
knows- what local X."
Many of these organizations which we fought against, as is evi-
denced in trial records, were created just this way. They pick a
number out of a hat.
The Chairman. That is what I am talking about. We need some
sort of legislation to protect the public and the working people
against that exploitation.
Mr. Vladeck. I agree with you that legislation is needed to pro-
tect against that exploitation, but I must in all sincerity state that
legislation is also needed which takes into account the fact that all
of these organizations, so far as my own belief and experience with
this industry is concerned, are not the creations of anything other
than employers who create these organizations for the purpose of
gaining a competitive advantage for themselves. These are not labor
organizations.
The Chairman. I don't care whose they are. They are evil and
ought to be prevented.
Mr. Vladeck. Right. And I believe that the procedures which we
currently have, if reviewed, and which would require some form of
certification, either in terms of recognition of the status of an inter-
national union which has some status and isn't an address or a mail
drop, or in the form of registration someplace, which permits people
to find out who these people are.
^ In most of these instances, it is my finn belief that these organiza-
tions which we have fought against for now almost 2 years were cre-
ated solely for the purpose of providing the employer with the affidavit
he needs to come into court when we picket, and to say, "I have a con-
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16741
tract with a union, and since I have a contract with a union, you can't
picket, because it can't be a labor dispute."
We are currently faced with the situation by reason of the existence
of these letterhead locals.
Senator Church. Mr. Vladeck, you mentioned that after you estab-
lished the trusteeship over 1690, you undertook to see to it that this
union began to function as a legitimate union in this field should, and
you mentioned one specific step that was taken. That was that you
immediately placed a ban on picketing, except that which had the ap-
proval of the International Retail Clerks.
I am interested in knowing what other specific steps were taken.
How does an international move into a picture of this kind and accom-
plish this objective? What other specific steps have been taken since
the trusteeship was set up ?
Mr. Vladeck. All checks signed by the local have to be counter-
signed by the international; all income of the local is reviewed; the
salaries paid the officers of this local are $130 a week for its president,
plus $85 in expenses ; I think $145 a week for its secretary ; and less for
its third officer.
It has been obligated to negotiate an agreement with the Music Op-
erators Association of New York which required the approval not only
of its membership, but of the international. We actually participated
in that contract.
On several occasions since that contract was executed, it has been
called to our attention that there has not been adherence with the agree-
ment. We have made sure that where we knew about it, the agreement
was adhered to. I think Mr. Gottlieb testified this morning. Senator
Church, when you were not here, that he had had the practice of pay-
ing the union dues, and that that practice had changed.
That practice had changed because the international was advised of
it, and called the association in and said :
We are not going to tolerate this. If you have to increase wages to your work-
ers so that they can afford to pay clues which you have agreed to check off, then
go ahead and raise their wages. But that dues money is not to be paid by asso-
ciation members ; it is to be paid by our members. We don't want you as mem-
bers ; we want the members as members.
AVe have also instructed the local union officials that while we had no
objection to owner-operators becoming members of the union if they
so chose, and frankly I don't know why they should so choose, but if
they want to, all right, but that there was to be no attempt to organize
owners who operated their own machines; there was to be no picketing
of a location where there was an owner-operator ; there was to be no
picketing of a location where the location owner owns the machine,
which occurs occasionally.
Somebody who owns a bar, a grill, a luncheonette, will buy his own
jukebox. That there was to be no picketing of a nonunion location
until an attempt was made to find out who the man was who serviced
it, and to talk to him, to attempt to organize him, not by first putting
a picket line and then finding out that he owned the machine or that
the tavern owner owned it, but first find out whether this is actually
being serviced by an employee before any economic pressure would be
put on.
16742 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD
Senator Church. I think this, Mr. Chairman, indicates the extent
of the various methods that have to be employed to clean up a situation
of this kind, and I think that it highlights the fact that the heavy
reliance, perforce, is upon the unions themselves to clean out much of
the racketeering that the investigations of this committee have
disclosed.
I have said before that I am hopeful that Congress will act, that we
will have reform legislation at the national level. But even model
legislation at the national level is but a first step. I have said also that
great reliance has to be placed upon local law enforcement authorities,
and that most of the abuses that have come to the attention of this
committee have, in fact, been in breach of the peace laws of the local
communities, and can only be effectively dealt with at that level, be-
cause the Congress is not an enforcer of the general law.
But I think that this also needs to be said: That a major portion
of this cleanup job has to be done by legitimate labor unions through
their international organizations. That is wliy it is so distressing to
the members of this committee to find one of these international or-
ganizations, the Teamsters, shot through with the very kind of corrup-
tion that occurs at a local level.
So we have very little confidence that within that organizations the
necessary steps are going to be taken. That is the largest single union
organization in the country.
I want to commend you and, through you, the leadership of the
Retail Clerks International, for the efforts that you have made in this
difficult field. I think that it represents the kind of work that must
go forward now through many of the international union organiza-
tions in this general effort to clean the racketeers out of legitimate
unionism in this country.
Mr. Vladeck. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kenniedy. In that connection, I would like to ask you what you
would feel the future holds in this field when you have to compete with
a local such as 266 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters ?
Mr. Vladeck. In all honesty, Mr. Kennedy, I don't regard the fu-
ture as bright for our local 1690. We are not going to engage in the
kind of tactics which the other organizations in this industry have
engaged in.
We will not seek finances from employers to do it, and we will not
seek the strong arms that are going to be necessary to impose this kind
of condition of unionization in this industry under the current climate.
All that we will continue to do, and which, we must continue to do,
is try to restrain, through available law and through local law enforce-
ment officers, this invasion of our collective bargaining agreements.
We have done it once in conjunction with the music operators. They
have done it a second time.
Local 266 is going to be much harder to deal with in this regard,
because they do have an international charter and they are an inter-
national union with a reputation. It is not a letterhead local.
Mr. Kennedy. And the union which has more economic power than
any other union in the country.
Mr. Vl.\deck. Certainly more than the Retail Clerks, Mr. Kennedy.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16743
Mr. I\j;nnedy. And the union that is controlled, operated, and
backed by the underworld in New York City, as local 266 has been
shown to be.
Mr. Vladeck. Well, we are not optimistic as to our future. I can
only say to tliis committee that we will continue to exercise any ef-
fort we can to preserve our jurisdiction in this field. But we just
aren't going to play it accoi^ing to their rules. We neither can af-
ford to nor want to.
If that means that we are unsuccessful, at least we will have had an
experience, I will characterize it that way, over the years in which
we are attempting to accomplish this, at least.
Mr. Kennedy. So it would appear that the monopoly that was
discussed this morning of this industiy in New York will be estab-
lished unless there is some drastic change, which is not immediately
foreseeable.
Mr. Vladeck. Well, I tliink Mr. Kasper stated in his testimony,
which I heard this morning, that 266 has been slowed down. At least
to the extent we can keep slowing it down, we are going to try to.
That much I can say. I certainly cannot say with any confidence
that we can avoid their gaining control of the industry.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
The committee will stand in recess until 10:30 in the morning,
(Members of the select committee pi'esent at time of recess: Sena-
tors McClellan and Church.)
(Whereupon, at 4 :40 p.m. the select committee recessed, to recon-
vene at 10 :30 a.m., Friday, February 13, 1959.)
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1959
United States Senate,
Select Committee ok Improper Activities
IN the Labor or Management Field,
Washington, D.C.
The select committee met at 10: 30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 44, agreed to February 2, 1959, in the caucus room. Senate Office
Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com-
mittee) presiding.
Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Sena-
tor Frank Church, Democrat, Idaho.
Also present: Eobert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; John P. Con-
standy, assistant counsel ; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel ; Wal-
ter R. May, investigator; Sherman S. Willse, investigator; Walter
De Vauglin, investigator ; Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Church.)
Tlie Chairman. All right, Mr. Counsel, call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. I thought before we started I might place in the
record the names of the gangsters who attended the meeting at Apa-
lachin whom we have f oimd to be in the coin-macliine business, for the
most part in the cigarette-machine business, in the game-machine
business, and in jukeboxes.
They would be Jerry Catena, from New York and New Jersey, who
was a witness here the other day ; John Anthony De^Marco, from
Cleveland, Ohio; Joseph Falcone, from Utica, N.Y. ; Michael Geno-
vese, from Pittsburgh, Pa. ; John LaRocco, from Pittsburgh, Pa. ;
Carmine Lombardozzi, from New York City; Gabriel Mannarino,
from New York City, a witness earlier ; John Scalish, from Cleveland,
Ohio, who was a witness earlier; and Frank Zito, from Springfield,
111., who was a witness the day before yesterday.
I might also say, Mr. Chairman, that we had another situation that
developed. As you know, we have been investigating some coin-
machine activity in Lake County, Ind. It has been a very active
operation, but the night before last those who operated the machines,
which in part are run by the syndicate, came and picked up all of the
machines in and around Gary and in some other areas of Lake County.
For the most part these were pinball machines such as were exhibited
here on the first day, the gambling pinball machines, the so-called
bingo machines. They were all picked up, over 1,000 of them, over a
short period of time, shortly after the hearings began.
16745
16746 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman . Have they been put out of operation ?
Mr. Kennedy. They were picked up by the syndicate and have been
placed in warehouses in and around that area, and they are now com-
pletely out of operation.
As you know, we have had investigators there for several months,
and we have been going into the matter. It is one of the most critical
of any areas that we have made an investigation of.
But these machines, since these hearings started, have all been
picked up.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. The first witness, Mr. Chairman, is Mr. Albert
Denver.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Denver. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ALBERT S. DENVER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL
SAMUEL MEZANSKY AND JOSEPH GODMAN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Denver. My name is Albert S. Denver, and my place of business
is at 761 Park Place, Brooklyn, N.Y. I own and operate jukeboxes
and cigarette machines.
I am also president and managing director of the Music Operators
of New York, Inc., with offices at 250 West 57th Street, New York
City.
The Chairman. Thank you. You have counsel, and will you iden-
tify yourself for the record, please.
Mr. ISIezansky. My name is Samuel Mezansky, 350 Fifth Avenue,
New York City, and my associate is Joseph Godman, 274 Madison
Avenue, New York City.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. I believe Mr. Denver had a prepared statement,
Mr. Chairman, that he would like to submit to the committee. I do
not believe that he intended to read the statement, but he would like
to have it made an exhibit for reference, at least.
Mr. Denver. I would like to do that, Mr. Chairman, with your
permission.
Mr. Kennedy. The statement was submitted yesterday and so it
meets the rule.
llie Chairman. I understand the statement was submitted under
the rule, and therefore it may be received and the statement may be
made exhibit No. 17 for reference.
(Statement referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 17" for reference
and may be found in the files of the. select committee.)
The Chairman. Mr. Denver, you may highliglit it if you desire to
do so, or if there is any comment you wish to make.
Mr. Denver. Tliank you, sir.
The Chairman. Do you prefer to be interrogated and j'ou don't
want to make any comment about your statement ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16747
Mr, Denver. No; that is not iin})ortant. As loii^i; as tlie committee
iias a copy of the statement.
Mr. Kenxedy. Mr. Denver, you are president and managing direc-
tor, as you have testified, of the Alusic Oi)erators of Xew York ?
Mr. Denver. I am.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are owner and president of the Lincoln
Service Co. ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Which operates approximately 75 jid^eboxes and
some 300 cigarette machines ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You also own a factoring company called the Bed-
ford Factors ; is that right ?
Mr. Den\ter. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Which piimarily loans money to operators in the
jukebox industry, primaril}- ?
Mr. Denver. Primarily business conditional contracts covering
jukeboxes, and cigai'ette machines.
Mr. Kennedy. And that company presently has over $1 million out
on loans ; is that right ?
Mr. Den\^r. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. As president of the Music Operators of New York,
you receive some $250 in salary, and approximately $75 expenses ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The association was formed in 1937 and it was origi-
nally called the Automatic Music Operators Association, Inc.?
Mr. Den\'er. Yes, sir.
Mr, Kennedy. In 1953 it changed its name to its j)resent name?
Mr. Den\t2R. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is $257 a week and $75 expenses ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been a member of the association sinc-e
1939 and were elected its president in 1945 ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Your operation is limited, or has limited its opera-
tion of Music Operators Association to New York City ?
Mr. Denver, Yes, sir.
]Mr. Kennedy. You are approximately 160 members ?
Mr. Den^t^r. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you operate approximately about 8,000 machines
on location ?
jNIr. Denver. Yes, sir; that is, the members of the association do
Mr. Kennedy. Approximately 8,000 machine.s ?
Mr. Den\'er. Yes, sir.
The Ch AiRiNiAN. What kind of machines are they ; j ust music ?
Mr. Denver. Just music machines, jukeboxes; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. As we have been talking about this association, and
the members of it, ^Nlr. Chairman, I w^anted to put the statistics in
as to the number of macliines and what the economic value of the
industry is.
Most operators maintain between 30 and 40 machines?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Tliat is the average?
16748 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Operators with less than five machines are excluded
from membership in the association ?
Mr. Denver. No ; we take any operator with any number of machines
at this time.
Mr. Kennedy. Had you at one time ?
Mr. Denver. Yes ; that was a few years ago, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. That has been changed ?
]VIr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. There are about 11,000 machines in New York City ?
Mr. Denver. I daresay there are.
Mr. Kennedy. So there are about 3,000 machines owned by inde-
pendent operators.
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. That, as you will develop later in your testimony, is
getting larger ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The average gross income per machine is approxi-
mately $20 a week, the gross income ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Which means a total gross business of approximately
$11,440,000 a year.
Mr. Denver. I believe your computation is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Then in addition the machines are normally written
off and replaced normally about every 4 years ; is that right ?
Mr, Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And the fair average price of a machine is about
approximately $1,000 ?
Mr. Denver. Approximately.
Mr. Kennedy. So consequently, the sale of machines in the area
would approximate some $2,750,000 each year, according to those
figures.
Mr. Denver. You mean on replacement ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Denver. I don't think it will run that high, but it will run to a
substantial amount.
Mr. Kennedy. If a machine is replaced every 4 yeare ?
Mr. Denver. It would be 2,000 machines replaced a year on the basis
of $1,000. That would be close to $2 million.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, of course, there are some 11,000 machines, and
that is just for the association. I am talking about all of them. So
for the overall figure it would be $2,750,000.
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the records also indicate that there are some 13
members, about 8 percent of the membership operate 3,468 machines,
or about 41 percent of the total machines. Would that appear approxi-
mately right ?
Mr, Denver. You say 13 members ?
Mr. Kennedy. Herman Music and Boro Auto Music, and the 13 top
operators of some 3,400 machines, which is about 41 percent of the total
of all of the machines.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16749
Mr. Denver. I never broke it down, Mr. Kennedy, but I suppose
you have the figures there.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Constandy, can you place those figures in the
record ?
The Chairman. You have been previously sworn, Mr. Constandy ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes ; I have.
The Chairman. All right ; you may testify regarding this.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY— Resumed
The Chairman. What have you before you ?
Mr. Constandy. I liave before me the list of the 13 largest operators
and the number of their locations each and the percentage of the total.
The Chairman. The largest operators in what area?
Mr. Constandy. These are the largest operators that are members
of the Music Operators of New York.
The Chairman. They operate, then, in the New York area ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. The names of the largest operators and the number
of machines the}' operate, their income, and any other information you
have about them may be stated.
Mr. Constandy. The A. & A. Operating Co.
The Chairman. You are giving the names of what ?
Mr. Kennedy. He is going to give the names in the order of their
size, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Constandy. The Suffolk-Nassau Music Co., with 700 machines,
is first ; and the Paramount Music, wnth 390 machines, is second ; and
Regal Music, with 325, is third ; A. & A. Operating Co. also has 325
machines.
The LaSalle Music Co. has 290 machines. The Union Automatic
Music has 250 machines. Elkay Amusement has 215.
Master Automatic Music has 177. Majestic Operators have 123.
Capital Automatic Music has 120. Herman Music Co. — and I believe
that is combined with Boro — has 215.
Mr. Denver. That is incorrect, Mr. Constandy.
Mr. Constandy. In what respect ?
Mr. Denver. They don't operate 250 machines.
Mr. Constandy. I said 215.
Mr. Denver. I believe they only operate about 50 machines.
Mr. Constandy. Is there another company that is operating in con-
junction with that, called Boro ? I believe their total is 215.
Mr. Denver. I see.
The Chairman. "X ou are talking about the two companies.
Mr. Constandy. There is a joint interest in ownership in both.
Mr. Kennedy. That should be up around the sixth largest.
Mr. Constandy. That makes a total of 3,468 machines, which ac-
counts for 41 percent of the total machines listed as operating in New
York.
Senator Church. Were those the 10 top companies ?
Mr. Kennedy. It is about the 10 top ones.
The Chairman. It is 11, according to my count.
Mr. Kennedy. It might be.
The Chairman. Did you hear these figures read off ?
36751 — 59— pt. 46 19
16750 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF ALBERT S. DENVER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SAMUEL MEZANSKY AND JOSEPH GODMAN— Resumed
Mr, Denver, I did.
The Chairman, Are they approximately correct ?
Mr. DEN\Ti:R, They are approximately correct, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the dues for each association member are 65
cents per month for each machine on location ?
Mr. Denver. Seventy cents.
Mr. Kennedy. How much is it now ?
Mr. Denver, Seventy cents.
Mr, Kennedy, Now, one of the advantages for the association mem-
bers is that they have the opportunity to list their locations with the
association, in his contracts, and under the agreement the members do
not breach another person's location where he has a contract.
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Almost since its inception, the Music Operators has
had a bargaining agreement with local 1690 of the Retail Clerks, and
its predecessors, local 786, Independent, and local 786 IBEW,
Mr. DEN^^ER, That is correct,
Mr. Kennedy. 786 IBEW was the local that was headed by Calland ?
Mr, Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, it had been a practice in the past, at least up
to a year or so ago, when local 1690 was placed in trusteeship, and a
new arrangement existed between the union and the association, it had
been a practice up until that time when an association member's loca-
tion was breached for a telephone call to be placed to the union and
for the union to provide pickets at that location ?
Mr. Denver. Well, I am aware the operator called the union and
apparently that is what the purpose of the call was.
Mr. Kennedy. That had been a practice up until the last year ?
Mr. Denver, That is correct,
Mr, Kennedy, Now, Mr, Chairman, I would like to have the witness
identify the contract, because there will be some references undoubted-
ly made to it in the report ultimately.
The Chairman. Does your association have a labor contract ?
Mr, Denver, We do ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. With what union, and with what local ?
Mr, Denver, Local 1690,
The Chairman. I hand you here a photostatic copy of a document
which purports to be the contract between your association and local
1690. I ask you to examine it and state if you identify it as such,
(The document was handed to the witness,)
Mr, Denver, Yes, sir.
The Chairman, The contract may be made exhibit No, 18, for refer-
ence,
(Document referred to M-as marked "Exhibit No. 18" for reference
and mav be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr, Kennedy, There are just two provisions of tlie conti-act tliat I
want to bring to your attention, wliich we have discussed before. That
would be article XIX of the contract, which states:
Employer membeeship within the union. Association members wlio act as
their own collector-agent and service their own machines, shall be deemed
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 10751
employees and shall become members of the Uuion, subject to the rules and
regulations of the Union covering such members.
What that provides, in otlier words, is that self-employed members
of the association nnist become members of the union?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
The Chairman. The self-employed members of the association?
Are they the owners of the locations?
Mr. Denm^r. No, they are the owners of the machines. They are
operators.
The Chairman. They are the ones who place the machines in
locations ?
Mr. DEN^T.R. That is correct.
The Chairman. They have to become members of the union ?
Mr. Denver. Well, they do that voluntarily, Commissioner — I am
sorry, Senator.
The Chairman. They do it voluntarily ?
Mr. Denver. Yes.
The Chairman. In other words, if they belong to the association,
they have to belong?
Mr. Denver. Well, according to the terms of our collective bar-
gaining agreement, they do.
The Chairman. That is right. I mean according to your contract ?
Mr. Denat.r. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. If they belong to the association, they must also
join the union ?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
The Chairman. Those are the ones who own the boxes, who put
them out on location?
Mr. Den^'er. That is correct.
The Chairman. There is actually no employer-employee relation,
then ?
Mr. Den\t:r. That is correct, with one exception, Mr. Chairman.
The owner-operator has no voice in the affairs of the union.
The Chairman. But he has to help support it ; to pay dues ?
Mr. Denver. Yes; that is correct.
The Chairman. But he has no voice?
Mr. DEN^^iR. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then there is another provision in the contract,
article 18, which deals with the location owner, where the location
owner has a complaint against the man who owns the machine. If he
wants to have that machine removed, under this article, article 18,
he has to take his complaint to either the union or the association,
and both of them have to be agreeable, ultimately, to the final disposi-
tion of the situation?
Mr. I)en\'er. I don't seem to remember that clause in the last
contract.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, it was in up to then.
Mr. Denver. It may be possible on a previous contract, but not in
the recent contract.
Mr. Kennedy. It is also in here, in article XVIII. It states:
Should any differences arise between the Location Owner and/or the Operator,
and/or the Collector-Agent, to the extent that he desires a change of collector-
agent, he may file a complaint —
16752 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
this is the location owner, the tavern owner ; this is what he has to do,
a third party, to the extent that he desires —
he may file a complaint either with the Association or with the Union, and if his
complaint is meritorious, either party hereto may grant him the relief sought.
If, however, the decision granting or denying said relief is not satisfactory to
either party, then the matter may be submitted by the aggrieved party for set-
tlement and determination in accordance with all the procedures hereinbefore
set forth in article XII.
Mr. Denver. Mr, Kennedy, I believe that clause refers to any com-
plaint that may be made against the collector.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, for whatever reason that the location owner
does not like the situation that exists in his tavern
Mr. Denver. If, perchance, he is not satisfied with the manner in
which the collector-agent conducts himself, then he has the right to
file his complaint, the storekeeper has a right to file a complaint against
him.
The Chairman. What is the collector-agent ?
Mr. Denver. A collector-agent is one who visits the location.
The Chairman. One who what ?
Mr. Denver. Visits the location.
The Chairman. Takes the money out of the machine ?
Mr. Denver. That is right. Collects the money in the machine and
changes the money.
Mr. Kennedy. He could be self-employed, obviously ?
Mr. DEN^^]:R. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. The only point is that the location owner, under the
contract and under the arrangement between the union and the asso-
ciation, must take his complaint — the location owner just cannot get
rid of the machine, but he has to follow this procedure, if he does not
like the collector-agent.
Mr. Denver. That applies to employees. We have no jurisdiction
over that, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. But these people are, to a large extent, self-employed.
If he does not like the location, the man who is servicing the machine,
who might be self-employed or work for somebody else, he cannot just
get rid of the jukebox. He must follow this procedure.
Mr. Denver. Well, our interpretation and our intention was — that
is, it was the intention of the union — that the clause applied to em-
ployees. That was for job security, more or less.
Mr. Kennedy. I do not want to Dursue this mat<"er, dig it into the
ground. But these employees could be self-employed.
Mr. Denver. Yes ; that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And it gets ultimately into the question of getting
rid of the box. There might be an advantage for the employees ; I am
not arguing about that. But it does set up the procedure for a tavern
owner to get rid of the jukebox that exists in his tavern.
Mr. Denver. Tliat is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Also, I would like to have you discuss with us, Mr.
Denver, the situation regarding the various unions that have been
in existence in New York City during this period of time, who have
been competing with one another in order to attempt to sign a con-
tract with the association, and what the effect has been on the asso-
ciation.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16753
Mr. Denver. Well, in a short period of 2 yeai-s we have been faced
with three unions, local 531, local 19, and local 266.
Mr. Kennedy. That is Teamsters?
Mr. Denver. Tliat is correct. This has been very trying on the
members of our association. It has been very embarrassing to them.
It has meant the loss of locations and the loss of money to the members
of our association.
Mr. Kennedy. There has been a period of harassment between these
various unions on the locations and on the operator; is that right?
Mr, Denver. Well, without any cause or reason, they immediately
wrote to the location owners advising them that the machines in their
locations were not serviced by the particular union. For example,
local 531 or 19 or even 266. And that unless the machines were
serviced by members of the particular union, pickets would be placed
in front of the stores.
The average storekeeper, refusing to be disturbed by labor disputes,
immediately asked our members to remove their machines or discon-
nected the use of the machines until the thing was clarified.
In the case of local 531, there were any number of machines that
were disconnected and put in the rear of the store for months, during
which time we had brought proceedings against local 531 and its of-
ficials in the supreme court, requesting a permanent injunction.
We did get that permanent injunction, which was signed by Justice
Coleman. I don't think it took a week before we were faced with
another union, known as local 19. Without any reason in that case,
they immediately sent out pickets to locations and caused the same
harassment, whereby machines were again turned around and dis-
connected. They intimidated storekeepers to the degree that unless
machines bearing the label of local 19 were installed, that pickets
would be placed in front of the location.
Mr. Kennedy. During the period while this harassment was going
on by local 19, were you visited by an association officer, Eugene
Jacob, and also another man by the name of Max Gulden, another
game operator?
Mr. Denver. Max Gulden ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been mentioned earlier in the testimony,
Max Gulden, as being the individual who was downstairs shortly
before Mr. Green received his beating. '\Vhat did they state to you
regarding local 19 ?
Mr. Denver. Well, they were aware of just what was going on.
They told me in no uncertain terms that we could get peace in the
industry if I decided to sign a collective bargaining agreement with
a Longshoremen's Union.
Mr. Kennedy. They were going to bring a Longshoremen's Union
in?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they say that if you didn't want the Long-
shoremen's Union organizing the game operations in New York
City, that they could get another union for you ?
Mr. Denver. They as much told me that they had several unions
on hand. It was just a question of picking any one I wanted.
Mr. Ivennedy. You refused to deal with them ?
16754 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Denver. I absolutely refused to listen to an;^ such conversa-
tion and told them repeatedly that we were fighting these paper
locals with all our strength; that we didn't want to have any part
of those paper locals; that we had a collective bargaining agree-
ment with local 1690, which was an honest union, and that we were
going to respect our collective bargaining agreement. Then I asked
them to leave.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Jacob tell you that if you went along with this
operation and this deal that you could establish a monopoly control in
New York City?
Mr. Denver. Well, he as much as intimated that with the aid of
himself and other people, and a union of their choosing, that a monop-
oly would be created. I told him that I would have no part or parcel
of any such deal.
Mr. Kennedy. Was this going to be in the game and jukebox field?
Mr. Denver. Yes. A combination.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlien you say "as much as intimated," was it stronger
than that? Was there some statement made to this eflfect? Or was
that what the purpose of the conversation was?
Mr. Denver. He as much as told me that for my own good it would
be better for me to acquiesce and concede that that factor is much
stronger than our factor. I told him that regardless of whatever he
said, the matter would be referred — which we did — to the office of the
Manhattan district attorney's office. Mr. Constandy was in charge of
the inquiry.
I visited with the Central Investigation Bureau, and I spoke to De-
tectives Jordan, Meyers, and Sergeant Langston. I was in commu-
nication with the Brooklyn district attorney's office, and saw District
Attorney Bob Lazarus and District Attorney Koota, in charge of the
Racket Bureau.
I gave them all these facts. As a matter of fact, the Brooklyn district
attorney's office obtained an indictment against an official of local 531.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they explain to you how they were going to get
the Longshoremen's Union into this situation?
Mr. Denver. I wasn't interested enough to ask. They told me that
they could get the charter.
Mr. Kenney. Was this whole idea, the whole thought behind it,
of making an arrangement with the local of their choice, the idea of
gaining monopoly control over the New York area?
Mr. Denver. Definitely. Definitely. And I was given to under-
stand that the cost per machine would be $5 per month for the asso-
ciation, and $5 per month for the union.
Mr. Kennedy. And that it would bring in a tremendous income?
Mr. Denver. That would be $5 per month and they figured at least
15,000 machines. That would be $75,000 a month for the union and
$75,000 for the association.
Mr. Kennedy. That would be in the form of these label charges?
Mr. Denver. Yes. They call it labels.
Mr. Kennedy. This was all explained to you at this meeting, in
which you refused to go along with them ?
Mr. Denver. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that there were some underworld
figures behind all of this ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16755
Mr. Denver. Yes.
Mr, Kennedy, Tlieii after you refused to make any concessions on
this, did local 260 of the Teamsters then come into existence?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Then they started their activities of harassment?
Mr. Dex\'er. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That has been aimed at you and your organization?
Mr. Denver. That is absolutely correct.'
Mr. Kennedy. That has been going on over a period of the past
year?
Mr. Denver. That is right; divide and conquer.
Mr. Kennedy. Have they made any real progress?
Mr. Denver. They have. I have been informed that they have at
least 2,500 phonographs in their union. I understand that several of
our members who are afraid of being intimidated agreed to join local
266 and pay dues thereto.
INIr. Kennedy. We have some figiu'es here that show only up until
the last quarter of 1958, but which show that from 1956 to the last
quarter of 1958, the members of your association have lost some 1,631
locations.
Mr. Den\'er. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. That is because of these efforts by the underworld to
move into these imions and work closely with association members, or
independent operators, who do not mind making this kind of a deal ?
Mr. Den\t:r, That is correct.
Mr, Kennedy. Did you ever hear or have any conversation as to
who controlled local 266 of the Teamsters ?
Mr. Denver. "Well, I was told that Mr. DeGrandis was the man who
was president of the union. I was also told that the Gallo brothers,
whom I never met, by the way, were the people behind the union.
Mr. Kennedy. They are the ones that have been described here as
the successors to INIurder, Inc.
Mr, Denver, Well, I heard that description, I don't know them.
Mr. Kennedy. They were the ones that were originally behind local
19 and now they switched over to local 266 ?
Mr, Denver. That is correct,
Mr, Kennedy, So it all fits into what you were told was going to
happen ; is that right?
Mr, Denver. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand the association member, or the
operator who was behind it, was Gene Jacob?
JNIr. Denver, That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. He was originally behind local 19 and then switched
over to local 266 ?
JNIr, Denver, That is right.
INIr, Kennedy, They have been told, have they not, by the operators
who have this arrangement with local 266, your people have been told
that they better join up with 266 or they are going to start losing even
more locations?
Mr, Denver, That is definitely true,
Mr. Kennedy. Have you been threatened at all, yourself ?
Mr. Denater. Yes, I have been threatened.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us about that ?
16756 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr, Denver. Well, I received a few anonymous calls that unless
I
Mr. Kennedy. First when you were opposing local 19 ?
Mr. Denver. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you approached then by Mr. John M. Amal-
itano ?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat did he say to you ?
Mr. Denver. Well, in substance he told me that I won the first
round, but I wouldn't live see any other rounds won by me. Then
I received any number of anonymous calls to my office, and some-
how or other they were able to call my home. I have an unlisted
phone at home. How they got that number, I will never know. But
they always made sure to call my home when I wasn't there.
Mr. Kennedy. Did they talk to your wife ?
Mr. Denver. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What did they say to your wife ?
Mr. Denver. Well, that I was mentioning names, which I didn't,
by the way, and that my activity was too great to allow me to live.
The Chairman. Wliat is your association going to do? Are you
going to continue to fi^ht these evils ?
Mr. Denver. Mr. Chairman, let this be known for the record and
for the world, and for every citizen of the United States. I have
a vote of confidence from the members of our association. We will
muster everything at our disposal '"o fight and oppose these evils.
We, the average operator in New York City, the members of our
association, enjoy a clean industry. We want it kept clean, and we
will fight to have a clean, honorable industry so that we can make a
livelihood.
The Chairman. Is it local 266 now of the Teamsters that is the one
that is giving you the trouble ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. It is the one that is using these threats and intimi-
dations to try to force the members of your association to join that
union?
Mr. Denver. That is right ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is the one that has Mr. DeGrandis ? Is he the
president of it ?
Mr. Denver. He is the president ; yes.
The Chairman. What is the name of the other two ?
Mr. Kennedy. He is the president, and the Jacob brothers are
behind him, and the Gallo brothers.
The Chairman. The Jacob brothers and Gallo brothers, they are
all behind local 266 ?
Mr. Denver. That is correct. Their great weapon is to stop the
delivery of beer.
The Chairman. And they get the cooperation of the Teamsters
Union ?
Mr. Denver. They get beautiful cooperation, perfect cooperation.
The Chairman, ^o vou and your association are going to fight
this. You belong already to a union ?
Mr. Denver. Local 1690.
The Chairman. And you have a contract with them ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16757
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And this is a case of the Teamsters Union, backed
by these gangsters and crooks, coming in, muscling in, undertaking
by force or intimidation, economic force and intimidation, to drive you
folks out of local 1690 of the Retail Clerks into the Teamsters Union,
where it is gangster-controlled ?
Mr. Denver. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Who of the Teamster high officials are back of
this in supporting it ? AVho does this local 266 — who is the immedi-
ate superior or authority over it ?
Mr. Denver. Well, Mr. O'Rourke of the council granted the
charter.
The Chairman. He granted the charter?
Mr. Denver. That is right.
The Chairman. And he is what in the international? Is he one
of the chief vice presidents ?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. He is head of Joint Council 16, Mr. Chairman,
which is the joint council that controls New York City, 140,000
Teamsters there. He was the one who was backed by Jolmny Dio-
guardi and Tony Ducks Corallo.
We looked into his election in 1956, the joint council election. He
was backed by these figures. He appeared before the committee and
took the fifth amendment and sliortly afterward was elected vice
president of the Teamstei^ on Mr. Hoffa's slate.
The Chairman. Did Hoffa send money up there to help him in
his election ?
Mr. Kennedy. No ; it was through Hoffa's efforts that these paper
locals
'I'he Chairman. That is where the paper locals were gi^anted to
Dioguardi and that crowd in order to help elect Jolin O'Rourke?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
The Chairman. But it was in the Philadelphia area where he sent
money over to help them ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is correct.
The Chairman. I understand.
Mr. Den\t:r. As a matter of fact, Mr. Chairman, may I at this time
say that when we started to feel a squeeze on behalf of this local, 266,
our attorney, Mr. Mezansky, immediately communicated by writing
to the monitors of the Teamsters.
The Chairman. You have reported this to the monitors ?
Mr. Denver. Yes ; they have a definite report.
The Chalr]vl\n. Have they taken any action yet ?
Mr. Denver. No, sir.
The Chairman. Well, I think there was a question about the extent
of their authority and jurisdiction up until some 4 or 5 days ago. I
think possibly that now is being resolved or has been resolved, of
course, subject to appeal and review.
But with the authority that apparently they have now, the monitors
might be able to give your association some assistance.
Mr. Denver. Well, they haven't up until now, Mr. Chairman. I am
sure that after waiting so long we can wait another hour.
16758 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. I am not trying to put them on the spot in any
way. I just don't i^now. But I can understand that possibly up
until now they were hesitant or reluctant to act because there was a
question of their authority and jurisdiction which had not been fully
settled, fully determined. There was a question about it.
But now I think maybe they would be able to take some affirmative
action to protect this local 1690 from being raided in the fashion
that it is being by local 266.
Mr. Denver. Well, the monitors have our complaint on file.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. In the same vein, the connections of some of these
people with the underworld, were you ever approached in the threats
that were made to you, by any underworld figure as to what they
could do for you with local 266 ?
Mr. DEN^^R. Well, there was a party that came to see me.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the party that came to see you ?
Mr. Denver. A man by the name of Ernie Rupolo.
Mr. Kennedy. Ernie "The Hawk" Rupolo ?
Mr. Denver. I didn't know "The Hawk." I only knew him at
that time as Ernie Rupolo. I knew that he had been in the business,
but I never met him before that time.
Mr. Kennedy. He had been jumping certain locations?
Mr. Denver. Yes, he w^as jumping locations. That is why I knew
his name. He told me that he would be able to straighten out this
question of raiding on behalf of the Jacob brothers. I said to him
if he could do that, that would be all right with me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever straighten it out ?
Mr. Denver. No, it was never straightened out. I saw him three
or four times after that and that was the end of it.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you make some payments to him for his efforts?
Mr. Denver. No, not in that vein.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you make some payments to him ?
Mr. Denver. Well, he had called my office and given us a prospect
of a location, and we gave him a finder's fee, and I think it was $75.
Mr. Kennedy. How many times did he call your office ?
Mr. Denver. He called my office about four or five times, half a
dozen times.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you pay him altogether?
Mr. Denver. I don't remember. It must have been around $100
or $150.
Mr. Kennedy. You paid him for a couple of different locations?
Mr. Denver. Just one location and we had prospects of another
location which didn't materialize. These were virgin locations.
Mr. Kennedy. You paid him on several occasions?
Mr. Denver. Yes, I think it was two checks, twice.
Mr. Kennedy. I want to go back in time a little bit to the activi-
ties of the Emby Co., which was a company during the 1940's, a
company that was operated by Meyer Lansky. Are you familiar with
that operation ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you ever approached by representatives of that
company, by Mever Lansky Co., toward making some kind of a deal ?
Mr. Denver. Yes.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16759
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate to the committee what happened,
or relate what happened there ?
Mr. Denver. The Emby Distributing were the distributors for the
Wurlitzer factory.
An officer of the company was a man by the name of Ed Smith.
Mr. Kennedy.. He was a partner of Mr. Lansky ?
Mr. Denver. I believe he was a partner. He was in charge and he
had authority there. There was a period there right after the World
War II when new machines were coming into the market and Mr.
Smith told me that they were instituting a franchise plan. Mr.
Levine, our former attorney who is now deceased, and myself, asked
Mr. Smith the meaning of this franchise plan. Mr. Smith told us
that any purchaser of the Wurlitzer machine would be restrained from
buying any other type of machine.
Mr. Levine and I demanded a copy of that agreement, and we
wanted to see the type of agreement that they woud have the operator
sign. They told us that the agreement was not ready at the moment,
but that they would give us a copy of the agreement.
Now, after inquiring about six or seven times, Mr. Smith definitely
told us that the_v decided not to have a Avritten agreement, but it was
by way of mouth to ear, a verbal agreement. They wanted the opera-
tors just to buy one type of machine and the operators definitely re-
fused to go along with that.
Mr. Smith then called upon Mr. Levine and myself and asked us to
enter into a deal guaranteeing him the sale of 1,500 machines per
year.
We absolutely refused to go ahead with any such idea, or any such
deal.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he say would happen if you didn't go
through with the deal ?
Mr. Denver. He told us that the locations would be taken away
from us. As a matter of fact, within a very short time we lost close to
200 or 250 locations. But we stood our ground, and after 3 months
they acknowledged the fact that we wouldn't go along with the plan;
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that they were figuring that
because of Meyer Lansky's name, that you would capitulate and give in
on it?
]Mr. Denver. Possibly.
Mr. Kennedy. And they did try to carry out their threat and were
successful for about 200 or 250 locations ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. But then it ended ; is that right?
Mr. Denver. Yes, I saw very little of Meyer Lansky.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't make a deal with them ?
Mr. Den\t:r. Oh, no ; absolutely not.
Mr. Kjennedy. Wliat about Carmine Lombardozzi ? Did you ever
have any connections with him?
Mr. Denver. I never had any connections, outside of the fact that
Mr. Lombardozzi went into the phonograph business and once he was
in the business he started to take locations away from our members,
locations that were under contract. As a matter of fact, he took two
locations away from me.
16760 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
As managing director of the association it was my job to see whether
we could get him in as a member of the association.
Now, when I had seen him originally, I didn't know what his back-
ground was, and I didn't know who the man was outside of the fact
that he was in the phonograph business.
After several conferences, he signed up as a member of our associa-
tion.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he want to sell his route to you at one time ?
Mr. Denver. At one time he wanted to sell the route to me, but I
wouldn't have any part of it.
Mr. Kennedy. Ultimately he sold it to someone else?
Mr. Denver. He sold it to Majestic.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the testimony that we had yesterday. Did
he ever come to speak to you about getting his brother a position ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, he told me that he would like to have his brother
be associated with the union, and I told him I had no dealings with
the union, and if he wanted to do that he could go right up to the
union and talk for himself.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that he wanted to have his brother
made an official of local 1690 ?
Mr. Denver. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And you told him he would have to go to see the
union ?
Mr. Denver. I referred him to the union.
Mr. KJENNEDY. To make those arrangements himself ?
Mr. Denver. Yes, that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. There is just one other matter that I want to talk
to you about briefly, and that is the beating of Mr. Caggiano.
We have had testimony about his visit to Mr. Calland's office, the
first conversation he had with Mr. Calland, and the open windows,
and how they then went down and went ultimately to your office.
Could you relate what happened after they arrived at your office?
Mr. Denver. Well, do you want me to tell the committee the in-
ception of this whole thing ?
Mr. KJENNEDY. Unless it gives something different than the testi-
mony we have already had.
Mr. Den\ter. It is not different outside of the fact that Mr. Licht-
man and Mr. Cagi started sending letters to the location owners.
These letters were referred to the operators who in turn contacted
me. I referred the matter to Mr. Frank Calland who was the busi-
ness agent for the local with whom we had a collective bargaining
agreement. He told me that he would take care of the matter.
This went on for several weeks, and I was rather peeved, and I
told Mr. Calland that it wasn't fair for our members to be subjected
to such action on the part of any other union.
I was sitting in the office of the association one day, around 12 or 1
o'clock, and I received a call from Mr. Calland to the effect that ]Mr.
Cagi and Mr. Lichtman were in his office and arranged to meet with
me in my office in Brooklyn that very night at 5 o'clock.
I agreed.
As soon as I hung up the receiver I realized that they were just
across the street, and I called up Frank Calland, and I said, "AVliy
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16761
not come over to the association office and we can discuss any matter
you want here?"
Mr. Calhuid told me that they had ah'eady left and that the ap-
pointment was for 5 o'clock.
At 5 o'clock 1 went back to my office in Brooklyn and I found Mr.
Lichtman and Mr. Cagi waiting there for me.
After I was in my office possibly 5 minutes, Mr. Frank Calland
came in. And he came into my private office and he closed the door,
and he stood against the door and he said, "Jimmy," referring to
Jimmy Cagi, "what do you want and what are you looking for?"
Mr. Caggiano said, "Well, you are walking around with a loaf of
bread under eac.li arm and I want one loaf."
Then Mr. Calland said, "Come here, I want to talk to you." And
he took him in the back of the office, which is a garage where we
store our machines there and our cars. Suddenly I heard a crash
and I said, "Oh, my God! One of the machines must have fallen
down."
I ran in the back and I saw Mr. Cagi who was on the floor and
there was another character there and this unknown character was
giving Mr. Cagi quite a beating. I pleaded with this unknown char-
acter to remove himself from the premises.
Mr. Kennedy. What did the beating consist of?
Mr. Denver. Well, Mr. Cagi was on the floor, and all I saw was
enougli kicking in the stomach and the head.
Mr. Kennedy. What was he saying to Caggiano as he was kicking
him?
Mr. Denver. He said, "You didn't listen and you wouldn't listen
and you wouldn't take orders."
Mr. Kennedy. He would kick him in the face?
Mr. Denvt.r. Oh, yes, he kicked him in the face.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he grind his face into the floor?
Mr. Denver. Well, he ground his face with the heel of his shoe.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you do?
Mr. Denver. Well, I got between them and I pleaded with him
to get out of the place, because I saw Frank Calland standing there
and he was beginning to foam at the mouth, and I said, "Do me a
favor. I don't know who you are, but get out of here and get out
fast and take Frank Calland out of here too."
So this character, and myself, we took Mr. Calland under the arm
pits and we carried him to the door, and then I found another stranger
there, and I never saw him before, and the two of them took Frank
Calland out of the office.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the end of it ?
Mr. Denver. That was the end of that, except for the fact that Mr.
Cagi came into my private office and then he left.
Mr. Kennedy. There was another man with the one that was kick-
ing and beating Mr. Caggiano?
Mr. Denver. There were two people that showed up.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he say ?
Mr. Denver. The other fellow ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Denver. He didn't say anything.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he tell the office workers ?
16762 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Denver. He told my manager, or let me put it this way, my
manager saw there was something wrong, and so he tried to walk
toward the door to get out, and so this particular individual said, "Now
look, be a nice boy, stay there, and nothing will be said and nothing
will be done."
My man just stood there.
Mr. Kennedy. So there were two people that were there evidently
for the beating?
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. One of them kept your office manager in line and the
other one went in and did the beating.
Mr. Denver. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't know anything about that, that this
was going to transpire ?
Mr. Denver. Oi course not.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Church. Mr. Denver, if your present struggle with local
266, it doesn't come as any surprise to the members of this committee
that underworld figures should have taken over, nor that they are
affiliated with the Teamsters International, which seems to have
become a kind of national refuge for scoundrels, but I do want to com-
mend you for the determined resistance against this kind of intimida-
tion that you are putting up. I think that that constitutes the surest
defense against the spread of racketeering in any community and in
any industry that we have.
I want to wish you every success in your efforts.
Yesterday we had the testimony of the counsel for the Eetail Clerks,
the regional counsel, who explained that that union has tried to make
sure that local 1690 is a legitimate labor union interested in those
legitimate objectives for which labor unions are formed.
I think if we are to have success in this field, it is going to take the
joint efforts of those in the industry and those honest people who are
involved in the union movement, and without that joint effort cer-
tainly the racketeers and the hoodlums are not going to be forced out.
So I want to commend you for coming here today, and for giving us
the benefit of this testimony, and I want to wish you every success in
your continued efforts in New York City.
Mr. Denver. Thank you very much.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
If not, call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Denver has testified as to the activities of these
various unions who are competing to try to take over the operations
in the coin-machine business. One of the most active was local 531,
headed by Mr. Al Cohen, about whom we have had testimony, and
about whom we are going to have further testimony. That local 531
was a local in the United Industrial Union, an international union,
and so we felt that it would be lielpful to the committee to call the
international president of that union and have him give us testimony
as to what the situation as far as the granting of the charter. I would
like to call Mr. Joseph LaKocco.
Tlie Chairman. Mr. LaRocco, come around.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. La Rocco. I do.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16763
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH LaROCCO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JULIUS HELFAND
The Chairman. What is your name ?
Mr. LaRocco. Joseph Laliocco.
The CiiAiRMAisr. Where do you live, Mr. LaEocco ^
Mr. LaRocco. 2142 70th Street, Brooklyn.
The CiiAiKMAN. What is your business or occupation, please?
Mr. LaKocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer
may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, what did you say his business is, or
what his position is ?
Mr. Kennedy. International president of the United Industrial
Union. It is an international union located at 1 Nevins Street, Brook-
lyn, N.Y. We understand he is also president of Production, Serv-
ice & Warehouse Employees Union, Local 710, of the United Indus-
trial Union.
The Chairman. You have heard the statement of counsel. Do you
wish to deny that you hold these positions, or either of them ?
Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer
might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Don't you think your refusal to answer incrim-
inates the union itself, the international — the LTnited Industrial
Union ? Don't you think it reflects upon it if you take the position
you can't tell about being an ofiicer in it without self-incrimination?
Wouldn't the implication be that there is something rotten in the
thing?
Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer
might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. I do not know what your members think of it,
but I trust that a lot of them are decent people. But I would hate
to be one of your members and have you as my president w^hen you
take a position that you cannot acknowledge that fact without self-
incrimination.
All right, Mr. Counsel, proceed.
Wait a minute.
Counsel, will you identify yourself, please?
Mr. Helfand. Julius Ilelfand, 1501 Broadway, New York City.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. The fact is, Mr. LaRocco, that your international
union is virtually a paper international union, is it not?
Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. We have had discussions about paper locals, Mr.
Chairman, but this is the first time we have had what really amounts
to a paper international.
Isn't that correct, Mr. LaRocco?
Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to ansAver on the ground that the answer
might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is this union, the United Industrial Union Inter-
national, is it affiliated with the AFT^CIO?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. LaRcccu. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer
might tend to incriminate me.
16764 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. Wliat information do we have?
Mr. Kennedy. It is an independent union, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. I am glad to know it is not affiliated with the
federation.
Proceed,
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this is the first of several witnesses
on some of these international miions which are formed and then
grant charters out to locals. A number of thCvSe locals, as will be
demonstrated, are locals which are controlled by gangsters, who then
appear with placards and start to picket. It is a situation that we
felt was important for the committee to understand.
The Chairman. What it amounts to, as I understand it, and you
will be able to show from the proof, is that charters granted by
unions of this character, like the one this witness represents, those
charters simply become in effect a license to go out and exploit and to
racketeer and commit these improper acts ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kennedy. Another way to describe them, Mr. Chairman, is
that they are really hunting licenses. They hunt not animals, but
they hunt shops in order to either shake them down or to make some
collusive arrangement with some employer. That is what they do
amount to.
I would like to call Mr. Constandy, Mr. Chairman, to trace the
development of this union as much as we can from the records that
are available.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Constandy.
Mr. Kennedy. What information, Mr. Constandy
The Chairman. You have been previously sworn ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, I have.
Mr. Kennedy. About this union and how long it has been in
existence.
The Chairman. That is the United Industrial Union, Interna-
tional ?
TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY— Resumed
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The international, according to Mr. LaRocco, has been in existence
since 1937.
The Chairman. According to this witness ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. You got your information about that from him?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. All right. That was from the witness on the
stand. Proceed.
Mr. Constandy. I have before me the registration forms of the
Department of Labor for 1950 through 1958. The forms for the years
1950, 1951, 1952, and 1953, on the revei-se side, relative to the receipts
and disbursements, each contain the notation "None" for each of those
4 years.
The Chairman, No receipts and no disbursements?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. That is the kind of reporting this union has been
doinjr ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16765
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Foi" those 4 years ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right; proceed.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Nor are there any assets or liabilities listed for
the same period. In each of these, the address of the international is
76 Court Street, Brooklyn.
On the registration form for the year 1954, the address is moved to
1040 McLean Avenue, Yonkers, N.Y., and we find a different set of
officers.
On the reverse side of this form we again find that there have been
no receipts or disbui-sements, and the notation has been entered that
no moneys of any kind have been received.
The Chairman. In other words, that is for 5 years that it has re-
ceived no money and paid out no money, according to its report?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
The Chairman. Who signed the report?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. On the one for 1954, it was signed by the presi-
dent, Mr. Gerard Perrault. Did you want it for the preceding years ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. In 1950 the form was signed by President George
Levine. In 1951, likewise; in 1952, likewise ; in 1953, likewise.
Continuing with the runthrough of these, the form for 1955, the
international again moved, this time to 38 Park Road, New York.
The president is Al Pollock, the secretary-treasurer Sidney Dubin,
and the recording secretary Robert Dizinno.
For this year there again is listed no income and no assets.
The Chairman. That is 6 years now, beginning with 1950, that
they have reported no income and no expenditures ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Ycs, sir. On the form for 1956, which has been
signed by Mr. LaRocco, we find that the receipts listed are $75, with
no disbursements, and total assets are $75, and no liabilities for that
year.
The Chairman. That is the present witness who signed that one ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
The Chairman. That is for 1956?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. For 1956 ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. The international union took in $75?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
The Chairman. And paid out nothing?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is right.
The Chairman. You have accounted for 7 years. In 6 years there
was nothing taken in and nothing paid out, and in the 7th year they
collected $75, according to the report.
Mr. Constandy. On the 1955 form, there is a notation to the ef-
fect that the union is inactive in 1955.
The Chairman. Inactive ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Now wx get to the part that directly involves this
investigation.
The Chairman. They couldn't be very active if they weren't tak-
ing in any money or paying out any.
Go ahead.
Mr. Kennedy. What occurred in the following year that is sig-
nificant ?
36751 — 59 — pt. 46 20
16766 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. CoNSTANDY. FoF One thing, the 1955 form contains the initia-
tion fee and the regular dues of $1. At the time that Mr. LaRocco
signed the form, the initiation fee was clianged to $1 and the dues
were dropped to 25 cents. That is one significant fact.
The fiscal period covered by the 1956 return runs from September
24, 1955, until August 31, 1956. The fiscal period of the preceding
year ended July 31. Therefore, there was a gap in the fiscal period
for the international of 3 months.
Mr. Kennedy. Get into the chartering of local 531, Mr. Constandy,
which is of significance to us. Local 531 then came into existence,
is that right, in September of 1956 ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the local, Mr. Chairman, that we have had
the testimony on, which was headed by Mr. Al Cohen.
Would it appear from the minutes that the miion was reactivated
in order to grant this charter to local 531 ?
Mr. Constandy. Both from the minutes and the cash receipts and
disbursements books which begin in August of that same year, 1956.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Cohen began his operations in the coin ma-
chine business and tied up then with this so-called international
union?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Briefly tell us the inconsistencies about the charter-
ing of this union.
Mr. Constandy. I have before me a letter dated September 10,
1956, addressed to the UIU and signed by AI Cohen.
The Chairman. Addressed to whom?
Mr. Constandy. Simply, UIU, 1 Nevins Street, Brooklyn, N.Y.
Shall I read the letter?
Mr. Kennedy. Just summarize it.
Mr. Constandy. Well, the letter requests a charter and states that
there will be a meeting between Mr. Cohen and the UIU on September
20. That letter is dated September 10.
On September 12, there is a letter from Mr. LaKocco to Mr. Cohen,
acknowledging receipt of his letter and agreeing to the meeting on
September 20.
The Chairman. Those two letters may be made exhibits No. 19A
and 19B, in the order they were referred to.
(Letters referred to were marked "Exhibits 19A and 19B" for
reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Constandy. Now I have before me the charter, issued to
Electrical Equipment and Fabrication Employees Union, Local 531,
which bears the notation, "Charter issued September 20, 1958," which
is the same date as the meeting, according to the letters.
The Chairman. The charter may be made exhibit No. 19C.
(Charter referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 19C'' for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. What do the minutes show ?
Mr. Constandy. The minutes show the chairman on September 5
met with Al Cohen and a committee who requested a charter of the
lUE. The letter requests a meeting on September 20, but the min-
utes of the international show the chairman met on September 5.
The minutes then iio on to state that the charter will be issued etl'ective
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16767
September 10, 1956, but the cliai-ter bears the date September 20, the
date of the meeting referred to in the letter.
Mr. Kennedy. And the letter requesting the meeting was not sent
until September 10 ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. But the minutes would appear to indicate that this
all occurred on September 5 ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes. I would like to call attention, too, to the
fact that there are only two preceding entries in the minutes of the
international — I am sorry; there are three preceding minutes.
Mr. Kennedy. Then 531 came into existence ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And became 531 of the UIU, with Mr. Al Cohen as
the president. Then they started to get membership, is that right?
From then on the UIU began to receive some money ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, according to the registration forms of the
Department of Labor again, the income reported for the fiscal period
July 1, 195C), to June 30, 1957, show dues amounting to $1,386, with
initiations at $97. With initiations being $1 apiece, it would indicate
that there were 97 new members taken into the international during
that period.
The report for 1958 shows income from dues at $3,090.65. This
could be divided at the rate of 25 cents per member per month. The
income from initiations is listed at $235, which, at $1 apiece, would
indicate 235 members for that year, July 1957 to June 1958, for a
total of those listed in the two forms of 332.
Mr. Kennedy. If all of them stayed in ?
Mr. Constandy. If all of them stayed in ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What about local 531? They became active, but
how long did they remain active ?
Mr. Constandy. They remained active until the early part of 1957,
when they were enjoined by supreme court action in New York County.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. LaRocco also tell us about Local 815 of the
Cafeteria and Restaurant Employees of the UIU ?
Mr. Constandy. Mr. LaRocco mentioned that there were eight
employees at the Olean Restaurant which were members of local 710,
of which Mr. LaRocco was president; that a new local, local 815, was
chartered really to service these eight employees, who were employees
of a Japanese restaurant, which is the only distinguishing feature
with them.
The secretary, as reported to Mr. Kelly of our staff, was the U.S.
mailman who services the office of the international, and Mr. LaRocco,
through Mr. Kelly, stated the mailman is active in organizational
work on his route.
Mr. Kennedy. And this local union, which has eight members ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And the U.S. mailman who brings the mail to the
•office is the secretary-treasurer of the union, while delivering the mail
he is supposed to also try to attempt to organize the employees ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Is there anything about this, Mr. LaRocco, that you
wish to tell us ?
16768 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH LaROCCO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JULIUS HELPAND— Resumed
Mr. LaRocco. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Was the union reactivated in order to set Mr. Al
Cohen up in the business of attempting to organize the coin-machine
employees in the New York City area ?
Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer
miglit tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Morris.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Morris. I do.
TESTIMONY OF HAROLD MORRIS
Tlie Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Morris. My name is Harold Morris. I live at 745 Park Lane,
East Meadow, Long Island. I am a self-employed mechanic. I do
service work for various operators in the business.
The Chairman. Various operators in what business?
Mr. Morris. In the jukebox and game business.
The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this witness has been an employee
active in the jukebox business for a number of years, and has had a
considerable amount of experience with various unions that we have
discussed in the past and which we will continue to discuss. So his
testimony is important along those lines.
In 1947, Mr. Morris, you worked for the Emby Co., which was a
company operated and owned by Meyer Lansky.
Mr. Morris. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And they distributed the Wurlitzer machine, and
you worked as a repairman on their machine route ?
Mr. Morris. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time thej' had union labels on their ma-
chines ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you a member of the union ?
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Were any of your fellow employees members of the
union?
Mr. Morris. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand any of them were?
Mr. Morris. I believe none of them were.
Mr. Kennedy. But you certainly were not a member of the union?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know how it was arranged, therefore, for all
of the machines of Mr. Lansky to have union labels ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16769
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you went to work in 1948 for George Briggs;
after Mr. Lansky disposed of his interest, is that right ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He is a jukebox operator in Brooklyn ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, the union required 1 union man for
every 50 machines ; is that right ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The owner was the union man ?
Mr. Morris. Yes, he was listed as one,
Mr. Kennedy. Were you a member of the union ?
Mr. Morris. No.
Air. Kennedy. Just the owner and then he had one other employee ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. They were in the union and you were not ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliy weren't you in the union ?
Mr. Morris. He felt he would rather pay for himself, and I was
with him almost 3 years and all this time he paid for himself and
the one other employee.
Mr. Kennedy. Then in 1951 you went to work for another jukebox
operator by the name of Kramer ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He had some 70 jukeboxes and 5 games ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kramer had you do all the work; is that right?
You were the sole employee ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. His machines also had union labels ?
Mr. Morris. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you a member of the union ?
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were the only employee ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then in November of 1951 you went to work for the
Union Automatic Music Co. ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And they had some 300 union label jukeboxes ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you ever asked to join the union? Did you
become a member of the union then ?
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. You did not. You were asked to join the union in
1952 by the head of local 1690, Mr. Schlang?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Air. Kennedy. And you didn't join?
Mr. AIoRRis. That is right.
Air. Kennedy. Yet all of his machines had union labels ?
Mr. AIoRRis. That is right.
Air. Kennedy. Then in 1952 you obtained some of your own ma-
chines while working as a freelance mechanic?
Air. AIoRRis. No. I was working for Union Automatic and I placed
some machines.
16770 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kenistedy. While you were working for a company called the
Union Automatic Music Co., which we just mentioned, you also set
up your own route ; is that right ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Afterward, in 1953, you joined the association?
Mr. Morris. During that time, I also bought a route, during that
time, and then I left Union Automatic and I had my own machines
to take care of. Then I joined the association.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you bought 16 locations from a man by the
name of
Mr. Morris. That is the machines I bought.
Mr. Kennedy. First you had 10 machines, and then you had 16
more locations which you bought from a man by the name of Vito
Pepi?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Vito Pepi was in the union?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. After he sold these locations to you, what arrange-
ments did you make ?
Mr. Morris. I paid his dues in the union.
Mr. Kennedy. In his name ?
Mr. Morris. In his name.
Mr. Kennedy. After he had sold it to you ?
Mr. Morris That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you received the labels ?
Mr. Morris. I received the labels, and I put the labels on the
machines.
Mr. Kennedy. This was a route that you had purchased and you
just continued to pay in his name the dues to the union ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. The union and union officials were not very inter-
ested in what was going on, obviously.
Mr. Morris. No.
Senator Church. In other words, the whole time that you were an
employee in this business, for one operator or another, you never
were a member of the union although the machines on which you
worked all bore union labels ?
Mr. Morris. That is correct.
Senator Church. Once you became an operator and the owner of
some machines, then you commenced paying dues into the union for
the first time?
Mr. Morris. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. During this period of time, there were a number of
different unions that were active in this field, or Avas this-mostlv 1690?
Mr. Morris. No, there were some prior unions to it. Mike Cal-
land's union, 786, and then another one, and then 1690.
Mr. Kennedy. So there were three or four difi'erent unions?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And the Association of Music Operators of New
York?
Mr. Morris, Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Then in May 1953 you finally broke down and
joined local 1690 ; is that right ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16771
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you paid $27 initiation fees and $5 monthly
dues, is that right, 40 or 45 cents on each machine?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time did you tell the union that you owned
this other route that had belonged to Mr. Pepi and that you had been
paying in his name?
Mr. Morris. That is right. That is when we transferred them
over.
Mr. Kennedy. "What did the union officials say about that?
Mr. JNIoRRis. They suggested that I go up and straighten myself
out witli the association,
Mr. Kennedy. They said you shouldn't be doing that without the
association's permission ?
Mr. Morris. Not with permission, but just to straighten myself out
with them and join the association.
Mr. Kennedy. "Was he upset that you had been paying these dues in
Pepi's name and hadn't made any arrangements ?
Mr. Morris. No. They had known I was doin^ that.
Mr. Kennedy. He just sent you up to the association ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
IVIr. Ivennedy. Did you straighten yourself out with the associa-
tion ?
Mr. IMoRRis. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did anybody from the association tell you what ad-
vantage it would give to you about not permitting jumping and things
like that?
Mr. Morris. "Well, they said there was a bond and one member
wouldn't jump another member's location, and with the union the
union would picket any nonmember, so therefore, you were covered
in two or three different ways.
]\Ir. Kennedy. So it was a very nice arrangement, belonging to the
association.
Mr. Morris. Yes.
jMr. Kennedy. You were told that by, among others, Mr. Nash
Gordon, who was the office manager ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you also had a conversation with Mr. Denver
and Mr. Schlang, who was head of local 1690, along the same lines?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. About the union providing the pickets. Then in
October 1954, you lost your job with the Union Automatic Music Co. ;
is that right ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And when you lost your job, you were operating
your own business, your own route, but then did you lose some lo-
cations?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
]\Ir. Kennedy. And then did you complain to the union at that
time ?
Mr. Morris. Yes, I complained to the union and they said they
couldn't do anything. I complained to Mr. Denver and he said he
couldn't do anything, either.
16772 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. So did you get out of the union then?
Mr. Morris. Yes. I stopped paying dues.
Mr. Kennedy. Both union and the association ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Because they didn't help you ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did they say they couldn't do anything for
you?
Mr. Morris. Why ? I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it some particular operator that jumped your
location ?
Mr. Morris. I believe that was the main reason.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he have some connections that made it possible?
Mr. Morris. It is possible.
Mr. Kennedy. What?
Mr. Morris. It is possible that he had some connections.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that?
Mr. Morris. No, I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand why they couldn't help you ?
Mr. Morris. No.
The Chairman. Well, they were supposed to, were they not?
Mr. Morris. Yes, they were supposed to.
The Chairman. Didn't you try to find out why they wouldn't ?
Mr. Morris. I tried to find out why, but I couldn't find out why.
T felt I am a small operator, I had no money, and that is why I felt
they didn't want to do anything for me. Who the man was that
jumped me must have been a bigger man than me, and I was just a
small wheel and couldn't do anything.
The Chairman. In other words, you didn't get the protection you
paid for?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
The Chairman. Did they make an effort to protect you?
Mr. Morris. No.
The Chairman. In other words, you were just so small that some-
body else was going to take it over and run it anyhow, and they would
continue to get the money ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
The Chairman. You are the only one that lost in the transaction ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And subsequently you understood from conversa-
tions that Mr. Denver gave out a list of your locations to various
other operators and suggested that they jump your locations?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is after you got out of the association ?
The Chairman. Who did that?
Mr. Morris. One of the operators went around soliciting my loca-
tions and I spoke to him and he said that he got my list from the
association, from Mr. Denver, and the association.
The Chairman. That is the witness who just testified here a few
moments ago ?
Mr. Denver. Tliat is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you lost, what, two or three locations ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16773
Mr. Kennedy. Were you ever asked to belong to local 531 of the
UIU?
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the local that we just discussed, Mr. Chair-
man, which was run by Mr. Al Cohen.
Isthatrig-ht?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr, Kennedy. During a dispute between the Music Operators of
New York and 1690 on one side, against local 531, the union that was
run by Mr. Cohen, were you called down as a witness ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time you were doing work on behalf of
Plarold Kautfman ; is that right?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And Harold Kauffman had this arrangement with
Mr. Cohen?
Mr. IMoRRis. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Kauffman was a partner, Mr. Chairman,
of Miami Phil, who we discussed yesterday.
When you went down there as a witness, were you a member of
local 531 ?
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you meet Mr. Cohen ?
Mr. Morris. Yes, I met Mr. Cohen.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you to go in and testify that you were
a member of 531 ?
Mr. Morris. Yes. He told me that he considered me a member.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he show you a card ?
Mr. Morris. He showed me a card.
Mr. Kennedy. And had you signed that card ?
Mr. Morris. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go in and testify ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you testify you were a member of 531 ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You testified that you were, although you were not?
Mr. Morris. Well, he told me that since he was the president of the
union he considered me a member, and I testified as such.
Mr. Kennedy. You never knew that you were a member up until
that time?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And this was not your signature on the card ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Cohen was the one that suggested, however, that
you go in and testify in these court proceedings ?
Mr. Morris. No, he said he considered me a member and I testified
as such.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that the reason you were down there, to testify ?
Mr. Morris. That is right. And I also had to testify on who owned
which machines and who paid for which machines, et cetera.
Mr. Kennedy. AVhen local 19 was being set up, were you invited
to a meeting in connection with that union ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
16774 IIMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. And you did not go ; is that right?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that there were some under-
world figures connected with the union, local 19 ?
Mr. Morris. After I received the invitation, I checked into it and
I decided from the different people I called up I found out that they
possibly did have some underworld connections with that meeting.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you scared to go?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find ultimately at one of the meetings that
at this meeting of this so-called local union that they had gims on
the table?
Mr. Morris. That is one of the reports that I had received.
Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently, in Febniary 1958, you decided to
form an association amongst yourselves ?
Mr. Morris. Yes. We had a couple of meetings of all the free-
lance mechanics, mechanics doing work for other operators, and
decided to form an association of freelance mechanics.
Mr. Kennedy. At that time, after you formed this association,
did Mr. Jacob come down to see you ?
Mr. Morris. Yes. Mr. Jacob came down.
Mr. Kennedy, One of the Jacob brothers ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you at that time that you should join
up with local 266 of the Teamsters ?
Mr. Morris. Yes. He suggested that I join, myself, and bring our
association, all the members, into 266.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he say that local 266 was going to be the major
power in the area ?
Mr. Morris. Yes. He said 266 would be the major power and they
would provide benefits for the members.
Mr. Kennedy. How were they going to provide benefits for the
members if you were all self-employed ?
Mr. Morris. Well, he couldn't give me a straight answer on that.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that local 266 would be able to put
pressure on locations, stop deliveries ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And picket locations very effectively ?
Mr. Morris. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And force people to make arrangements ?
Mr. Morris. Yes. He said that they could picket, they could stop
the beer deliveries, and force the operator and the location owner to
toe the line.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that he was the one that had
originally been behind local 19 and subsequently was the one that was
behind local 266 ?
Mr. Morris. Well, I just surmised that he was with 19. I don't
know if he was behind it, but I know that he was with it.
Mr. Kennedy. Just as a general summary, the majority of the
employees gained nothing from the union, or the employees them-
selves didn't get anything out of the union ?
Mr. Morris. That is right; 1960 isn't a wonderful union. In the
10 years they have been in existence they have not given the em-
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16775
ployees practically anythincr. They never even let the employees see
ft coi)y of the collective bar^jainino^ agreement.
With this new trusteeship, they haven't done anything for the
employees either. None of the employees of the business have re-
ceived any benefits. They have one benefit they may have received.
There is hospitalization which pays $10 a day while in the hospital,
they may have received, and there is a death benefit.
Those are the only two benefits that some of the employees may have
received.
Other than that, I doubt if there are other benefits that they know
about. They don't even know about these benefits because they can't
see the collective bargaining agreement.
Mr. Kennedy. And a lot wouldn't know if they were in the union
or not ?
Mr. ]\IoRRis. That is right. A lot of them don't know who carries
the book in the company they work for and who is paying dues for
what. Until recently, when the investigation started, they started to
add the money to the employee's salary and then deduct it so it would
legally look correct.
Mr. Kennedy. But prior to the investigation, the owner or the
employer himself was paying the dues and paying all the other
things ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So the employee knew nothing about the operations
of the union?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. It was j ust for the benefit of the operators ?
Mr. Morris. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Have you any questions. Senator ?
Senator Church. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right. Thank you very much.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. McCann.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. McCann. I do.
TESTIMONY OP JAMES G. McCANN
The Chairman. State your name, your place of business, and where
you live, and your business or occupation, please.
Mr. McCann. My name is James McCann. I live at 1710 St.
Peters Avenue, Bronx, N.Y. I go under the business of McCann
Amusement Company, Inc., 16 Mt. Vernon Avenue, Mount Vernon,
N.Y.
The Chairman. You waive counsel, do you ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this witness' testimony is of some
significance, again, in connection with the operations of the union.
You and your family owned the Club Tremont?
Mr. McGinn. Club Tremont, Inc.
16776 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. That was in 1955?
Mr, McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is a bar and grill ?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. In that bar and grill there was a game machine
owned by an operator by the name of Harry Schildkraut?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You also had a jukebox owned by an operator by
the name of Joe Hannon ?
Mr. McCann. That is right
Mr. Kennedy. You had both the game machine and the jukebox?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. First, talking about the game machine, you had
no written contract in connection with the game machine; is that
right?
Mr. McCann. No written contract.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell the man, the owner, of the game ma-
chine that you wanted him to remove the game because you wanted
to purchase and install your own game?
Mr. McCann. Yes. I wanted to install my own game, so I asked
him to remove his game, being we had no written contract, and he
said that if I put my own game in, I would be picketed by 1690
union.
The Chairman. By what?
Mr. McCann. By '1690.
Mr. Kennedy. Local 1690?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did he say that you would be picketed?
Mr. McCann. Well, he said it was his location.
Mr. Kennedy. Are you sure it would be 1690 that would picket
you for the game?
Mr. McCann. 1690. No, wait, 433, that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. For the game?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
The Chairman. What?
Mr. McCann. Local 433. 1690 is the jukebox union.
Mr. Kennedy. We will come to that.
He told you that if you tried to put your own machine in there you
would be picketed ?
Mr. McCann. That is what he said.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you do ?
Mr. McCann. I gave him $150 and he guaranteed I would have no
picket.
Mr. Kennedy. And he removed his machine?
Mr. McCann. He removed his machine. I, in turn, bought my
own and operated my own machine in my own place.
The Chairman. Who did you pay that money to ?
Mr. McCann. Harry Schildkraut of the Chipson Amusement Co.
Mr. Kennedy. In order to get him to remove the machine from
your own premises, you had to pay him $150 ?
Mr. McCann. That is right, under threat of the picket.
Mr. Kennedy. What about the jukebox? Did you want to remove
the jukebox?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16777
Mr. McCann. Later on I decide to buy my own jukebox.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a written contract with the operator
of the jukebox?
Mr. McCann. No written contact, no.
Mr. IvENNEDY. What happened on that? Well, what kind of an
agreement did you have with them ?
Mr. McCann. I did have a verbal agreement with Joe Hannon, of
Gordon Amusement Co., that he would receive the first $15 that the
machine would make. The machine was only making around $15 per
week; $15, $16, $14, and I wasn't making any money at all from the
machine.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Do you mean if it made $16, for instance, you would
get 50 percent
Mr. McCann. Fifty percent of anything over the first $15.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the average that it was making?
Mr. McCann. Around $15 or $16.
Mr. Kennedy. What if it made $12 ?
INIr. McCann. Then he would take the $12.
Mr. Kennedy. What would he tell you (
Mr. McCann. Well, he just took the $12.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you anything about the $3 ?
Mr. McCann. Well, no, he just said he would take the whole $12.
Mr. Kennedy. You got nothing out of it ?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You decided to replace it ?
Mr. McCann. I decided to buy my own machine.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened ?
Mr. McCann. He said if I bought my own machine, I would run
into union difficulties. That is where 1690 came in.
Mr. Kennedy. That was local 1690 ?
Mr. McCann. Correct.
Mr. Kennedy. So what did you do? Did you offer to join the
union ?
Mr. McCann. I did offer to join the union, but they told me I
would have to have a minimum of 20 machines in order to join.
Mr. I^NNEDY. Did you ever talk to any union official ?
Mr. McCann. I believe I spoke to Mr. Howard Henry.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the treasurer ?
Mr. McCann. I came down from my store.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you speak to him at that time and say that you
would join the union ?
Mr. McCann. I did speak to him about it. Being I only had one
machine, he said I couldn't join the union with one machine.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you offer to hire a union mechanic ?
Mr. McCann. I offered to, but he said I couldn't do that, because
I, myself, was not a member of the association.
ISIr. Kennedy. Did you say to him anything about the difficulty of
getting 20 locations?
Mr. McCann. I told him if it was that difficult for me to acquire
my own machine on my own premises, it would be very difficult for
me to get the 20 locations. He just lauglied.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you finally resolve that ?
16778 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. McCann. He said if I could make a settlement with Hannoiv
then everything would be all right. I made the settlement with Mr.
Hannon. I gave him $175 and he removed his machine and I m turn.
bought my own. • i , t 5
Mr. Kennedy. Did he agree there would be no picket Ime ?
Mr. McCann. Yes. .
The Chairman. Have you ever joined either the union or the
association ?
Mr. McCann. 1 did later on.
Senator Church. When did all this happen? First of all, you
talked about the game machine and then the jukebox. Can you tell
us what the dates were ? Just approximately.
Mr. McCann. The exact dates I don't know.
Senator Church. Or what year it was ?
Mr. McCann. I think it was 1955.
Senator Church. With respect to both ?
Mr. McCann. No. I think it was about 6 months or maybe a year
later on, between the game and the jukebox.
Senator Church. So you had this game machine in 1955, and about
6 months later you had trouble with the jukebox ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Senator Church. Did you have any difficulty buying these
machines ?
Mr. McCann. No. No difficulty.
Senator Church. Where did you buy them ?
Mr. McCann. Right on 10th Avenue where they sell machines. I
just went down and bought one, with no difficulty.
Senator Church. The machines you bought, then, were new
machines ?
Mr. McCann. I bought new machines; yes.
The Chairman. Did you find them profitable afterward ?
Mr. McCann. Pardon ?
The Chair]man. Did you find them profitable after you bought
them?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently you sold the bar ; is that right ?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was at the end of 1955 that you sold the bar?
Mr. McCann. Yes; 1955 I sold it.
Mr. Kennedy. And you started an amusement company of your
own?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. You thought that this soimded so profitable?
Mr. McCann. Well, the machines in my place were doing very
good, because I was probably pushing the machines myself, but then
I decided to go into the business myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you make the same deal with the new bar owner
about getting the first $15 ?
Mr. McCann. I did. I did make the same deal with him, but after
the first couple of weeks he realized the machine was only doing
around $15 a week and I made it 50-50.
Mr. Kennedy. So what arrangement did you make then?
Mr. McCann. A 50-50 proposition.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 1G779
Mr. Kennedy. You gave him a better deal than you had gotten?
Mr. McCann. Yes. Even though 1 did have a contract with him
for the $15, wlien I sold the bar I had a written agreement with him,
that I receive the $15. But actually it was only doing $15, so I
couldn't collect that kind of money from him.
Mr. Kennedy. During the iirst year in business for yourself, you
jumped other locations and you were able to get 15 spots; is that right ?
Mr. McCann. I did ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. During that period, you were nonunion and self-
employed ^
Mr. McCann. Correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Here is another extremely important point.
I guess you sold that bar in July of 1955 ?
Mr. McCann. July of 1955; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. In September of 1955, you went to the Parkchester
Inn in the Bronx ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And did you get a machine placed there?
Mr. McCann. I did. I made an agreement with the owner.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that a game machine ?
Mr. McCann. A game machine.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened there ?
Mr. McCann. AVell, there was a picket put on.
Mr. Kennedy. After you took it over ?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was from local 433 of the Retail Clerks?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ivennedy. They put a picket line on, and somebody else's game
machine was replaced by yours ?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So what happened then ?
Mr. McCann. Well, the picket was on for quite a period of time,
and then the owner started to complain about the picket, and so I
made an agreement and I paid $100 to the operator who had the
machine in there previously, and then the picket was removed.
Mr. I^nnedy. You never became union yourself ?
Mr. McCann. Not up to that time.
Mr. Ivennedy. You didn't become union at that tune ?
Mr. McCann. At that time, no.
Mr. Kj:nnedy. You just paid $100 to the former location owner,
and then the picket was removed ?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Once again showing that the picket was placed there
not to try to get the people to sign up, but in order to help the
operator.
The Chairman. It was a shakedown, that is what it was, wasn't it?
Mr. McCann. It was for the protection of the operator, that is
what the union was for.
It was to protect locations.
Mr. Kennedy. The union was run by Mr. Al Cohen and Mr.
Caggiano.
The Chairman. The operator had already sold out?
16780 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. No, this is a location where he went in and gave
the location owner a better deal. Then they took his game maciiine
and threw the other game machine out, and the picket line appeared ;
and then when he paid the other operator $100, the picket was
removed.
Then, at the Club 988 in the Bronx, you jumped a location there?
Mr. McCann. I did.
Mr. I^NNEDY. They had a collective bargaining agreement, the
former operator, with Local 1690 of the Retail Clerks ?
Mr. McCann. I believe he did.
Mr. Kennedy. The picket appeared ?
Mr. McCann. They picketed the place for about maybe 2 to 3
months, but it was a night club, and the picketing was done in the
daytime and it didn't do any harm.
Mr. Kennedy. And then they went away; is that right?
Mr. McCann. Then he finally went away.
Mr. Kennedy. And you didn't join the union?
Mr. McCann. Not at that time, no.
Mr. Kennedy. And then you joined Local 433 of the RCIxV in
September of 1956 ; is that right?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you joined up with Seymour Howard and tlie
M. & H. Vending Co. to do business in the jukebox field?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr, Kennedy. Now, M. & H. at that time had no union membership
initially?
Mr. McCann. Not that that time.
Mr. Kennedy. And you started jumping locations; is that right?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And paying bonuses to location owners ?
Mr. McCann. Wherever there was no contract involved.
Mr. Kennedy. And when you jumped locations where there were
contracts with local 1690, or had 1690 members, the representative of
the local came out and threatened to picket?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, in December of 1956 you were approached by
Mr. Moe Bloom, an operator who was a local 1690 association member?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he wanted you to go to see Al Cohen about join-
ing 531 of the UIU?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go down and see Mr. Cohen ?
Mr. McCann. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us what happened ?
Mr. McCann. He told me he was going to form a new union, and
lio nskiHJ 1110 if I wantod lo join.
Mr. Kennedy. So did you?
Mr. McCann. Yes, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. He said he could guarantee there would be no piok-
eti^ifT?
Mr. McCann. Yes, and he said it would be nice forming a new
union and I wouldn't have any picketing by the other union because
I already belonged to this union.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16781
Mr. Kennedy. And lie. would make it possible for you to go out and
solicit stops?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And that you wouldn't have any trouble from any
union?
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you would not have to pay any dues at that
time ?
Mr. McCann. He said at that time, no.
Mr. Kennedy. And that all locations that you got you could keep;
is that right ?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. But he suggested or told you that there were three
companies that you shouldn't take locations from?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. AVhat companies were they ?
Mr. McCann. Well, he said they were big operators, that he was
hoping they would go along with his union or join his union later on,
and I don^t remember exactly the names.
Mr. Kj^nnedy. Was it the La Salle?
Mr. McCann. It was LaSalle and Paramount.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the one owned by Mr. Breheney ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And Paramount?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is owned by Mr. Miniacci ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. It is of some interest about Mr. Miniacci, Mr.
Chairman, and he owns Paramount. He was the individual to whose
party Frank Costello was going the night that he was shot in the
head. And then Eegal, that was another company that it was sug-
gested that you stay away from ?
Mr. McCann. I believe so.
Mr. Kennedy. That is owned by Mr. Charles Bernoff ?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he will play a very important role in the hear-
ings at a later time. He gave you labels from 531 ?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
]\Ir. Kennedy. And you paid no dues, and he just gave you 100 or
so labels?
Mr. McCann. To put them on the machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Nobody was paying dues ?
Mr. McCann. I didn't pay any, and I don't believe anyone paid
at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. You never got a union membersliip card?
Mr. McCann. I don't recall.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, in January of 1957, he asked for a check from
your company for dues?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And you gave him a $16 check ?
Mr. McCann. I gave him a $16 check,
Mr. Kennedy. Neither one of those checks for some reason has
ever been cashed ?
36751— 59— pt. 46 21
16782 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. McCann. No ; they never have been cashed.
Mr. Kennedy. And then I have another incident I want to ask
you about, the Midnight Cafe. About May of 1957 you secured a
location from the new owners of a cafe, two brothers by the name of
Masselli.
Mr. McCann. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you paid a $450 bonus ; is that right ?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And entered into a contract to place a jukebox and
a cigarette machine?
Mr. McCann. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, the operator under the former cafe owner
was the Metro-Urban Music Co. ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Metro-Urban Music Co. ?
Mr. McCann. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, that company had been owned by a man by the
name of Yargo.
Mr. McCann. I believe so.
Mr. Kennedy. And also a man by the name of Sam Balanca.
Yargo 's name is spelled Y-a-r-g-o. Did you understand that Mr.
Yargo and the owners of this company that formerly had the loca-
tion, came in and had a talk with the Masselli brothers ?
Mr. McCann. Yes; they did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Cohen come to you also ?
Mr. McCann. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And did he suggest that you give up the location ?
Mr. McCann. Well, he suggested that I give back the location.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate that there were some gangsters
behind this company ?
Mr. McCann. No ; he just said it was a friend of his, and he asked
me if I would give back the location and do him a favor.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that the Massellis became very
frightened ?
Mr. McCann. Well, yes; they were new in the business, and they
were scared of all of the changing machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you agree to give it back ?
Mr. McCann. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what their relationship was between
the union official, Mr. Cohen, who tried to get this location back for
the former owner ?
Mr. McCann. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know that at least one of the owners, Mr.
Balanca, has had eight arrests and two convictions?
Mr. McCann. I didn't know that.
Mr. Kennedy.. Did you understand that there were some under-
world riii:ures behind this company ?
Mr. McCann. I didn't know that for sure.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you hear any discussion about that ?
Mr. McCann. Well, you hear things, but you don't believe what
you hear, not all of the time.
Mr. Kennedy. But you kept the location ?
Mr. McCann. I kept the location.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16783
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
The committee will stand in recess until 2:15.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess : Senators
McClollan and Church.)
(Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the select committee recessed, to re-
convene at 2 :15 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
afternoon session were Senators McClellan and Church.)
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we expect to hear some six witnesses
this afternoon, and we are going further into this development and
then the operations of the union and connections that some of these
unions had, and the first witness is Mr. Charles Guerci.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Guerci. I do.
TESTIMONY OP CHARLES GUERCI
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Guerci. My name is Charles Guerci, 28-35 153d Street, Flush-
ing, N.Y.
The Chairman. Did you tell us what your business is?
Mr. Guerci. Restaurant business.
The Chairman. The restaurant business ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Will you proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Guerci, you have been in the restaurant busi-
ness most of your life, except for a few years that you took off ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You became a union official in the intervening years ;
is that right ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were in the restaurant business. Prior to being
in the restaurant business you ran a speakeasy ?
Mr. Guerci. I will say, "Yes."
The Chairman. What is a speakeasy? That is where you tread
lightly to get what you want ?
Mr. Kennedy. You ran a speakeasy during prohibition days, called
the College Inn, in New York City ?
Mr. Guerci. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And then you operated the Villa Grove Restaurant
in Flushing ?
Mr. Guerci. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And up until 1952 ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
16784 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOK FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Then one of your customers told you how attractive
the union business was ; is that right ?
Mr. GuEKci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And so you sold your restaurant and decided to go
into the union business ?
Mr. GuERCi. Tliat is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And you went and you had a. conversation with
Mr. Paul Lafayette who was regional director of the Retail Clerks?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And he told you to go to work and he would get
\you a charter later on ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So you invested your money and you started to
organize ; is that right ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You started organizing in the coim-madbioe busi-
ness, in that field ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know much about this kind of business?
Mr. Guerci. Nothing.
Mr. Kennedy. You had just been in the restaurant business ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You got a group of operators together out on Long
Island ?
Mr. Guerci. Nassau and Suffolk.
Mr. Kennedy. They decided this would help you and put some of
their employees in ?
. Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And so you were in that kind of an operation
for about 2 years ; is that right ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And then Mr. Lafayette finally gave you a charter,
did he ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedys From the Retail Clerks?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you got a charter?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How many people were you able to sign up during
the 2 years you were operating ?
Mr. Guerci. About 50.
Mr. Kennedy. There were no contracts with anybody ?
Mr. Guerci. No.
Mr. Kennedy. They paid dues in ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You got the dues?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you keep any books or records ?
Mr. Guerci. No, not at that time, because I had no accountant.
Mr. Kennedy. The money just came to you and you would disbui-se
it?
Mr. Guerci. I would use it all up.
Mr. Kennedy. Plus you were investing your own money ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16785
Mr. Kennedy. You were the union.
Mr. GuERCi. Yes ; that is right.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money of your own did you spend during
that period of time ?
Mr. Guerci. About $7,000.
Mr. Kennedy. Going around trying to organize, and you ended up
with 50 people.
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. I^nnedy. One of the employers out there, operators, was Mr.
Sandy Moore?
Mr. Guerci. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he make some arrangement with you ?
Mr. Guerci. He made no arrangement with me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he give you some of his employees ?
Mr. Guerci. Oh, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. How many did he give you ?
Mr. Guerci. The first time he gave me a couple, and then when he
went ahead, he gave me five or six more.
Mr. Kennedy. These operators would give you some of their moneys
if they liked you ?
Mr. Guerci. Not that they liked me. If they had a mechanic, they
signed up with the union.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, he had 20 employees.
Mr. Guerci. He didn't give me all ; he only gave me five or six.
Mr. Kennedy. He would only give you five or six ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then the charter that you received from the Ketail
Clerks was local 433?
Mr. Guerci. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. After you got the charter, how many people did you
get once you got the charter ?
Mr. Guerci. Well, then I merged with Caggiano of New York.
Mr. Kennedy. At whose suggestion did you merge with Caggiano ?
Mr. Guerci. We sat down together and merged together.
Mr. Kennedy. Then did Sandy Moore, who had given you five or
six of his employees in 1954, suggest to you that you take in a Mr. Al
Cohen?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. He said Mr. Al Cohen could be of help to you ?
Mr. Guerci. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And so at the suggestion of Mr. Sandy Moore, one of
the biggest operators, you took in Mr. Cohen, and did Mr. Cohen
gradually take over the union from you ?
Mr. Guerci. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He went into the jukebox organizing ?
Mr. Guerci. No jukeboxes ; only the games.
Mr. Kennedy. ^Vliat was Mr. Cohen doing, and wasn't he going
after jukeboxe locations ?
Mr. Guerci. Not when I was in there.
Mr. Kennedy. Later on did he go after the jukebox ?
Mr. Guerci. I don't know, and I was out.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he gain control of the union then, after he came
in the local ?
16786 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. GuERCi. I left him and Jimmy Caggiano.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did you get out ?
Mr. GuERCi. I don't like the setup.
Mr. Kennedy. What was wrong with the setup ?
Mr. GuERCi. I couldn't make any money, and I have a family to
support, and so I stepped out.
Mr. Kennedy. You couldn't make any money from it ?
Mr. GuERCi. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Were they making any money, Caggiano and
Cohen?
Mr. GuERCi. I don't think so.
Mr. Kennedy. So you went back to the restaurant business ?
Mr. GuERCi. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. That was your experience in the labor business ?
Mr. GuERCi. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Are you planning to go back into the labor business?
Mr. GuERCi. Never.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any questions ?
Senator Church. I have no questions.
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy Mr. Pearl.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and notliing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Pearl. I do.
TESTIMONY OP MORTIMER B. PEARL
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Pearl. Mortimer Pearl, "Valley Stream, N. Y., insurance.
The Chairman. That is insurance ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Pearl, you also had an experience in the labor
field ; is that right ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, during 1950 to 1955, you were employed in
the auto radiator repair business?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1955 you sold out your interest in that business,
where you also worked as a mechanic, did you ?
Mr. Pearl. As a salesman.
Mr. Kennedy. You sold out your interest and started to try to
develop some insurance business?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You met a man by the name of Mr. Cohen, Abe
Cohen?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was a brother of Al Cohen; is that right?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, that is correct.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16787
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Abe Cohen had been in the auto repair business ?
Mr. Pearl. He was a former competitor.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Al Cohen came to you and suggested that
you go to work for him ?
Mr. Pearl. He did, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. In the union business ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. For local 433; is that right?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he tell you you would be doing, what were
your responsibilities?
Mr. Pearl. At the time just to supervise the automobile radiator
repair shops which they were interested in having in the union.
Mr. Kennedy. Origmally he offered you $100 a week, and you
told him that that wasn't enough, and ultimately he came back and
offered you $100 a week plus $25 expenses?
Mr. Pearl. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you agreed to take the job?
Mr. Pearl. That is right. In January of 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he also tell you at the same time that he would
like to have you president of another local ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, he did, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were going to work for 433 and did he say he
would like to make you president of 531 ?
Mr. Pearl. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you agree to be president ?
Mr. Pearl. Not at first, but eventually I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Eventually you did ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You discussed it with your wife, and then she said
she thought it would be a good idea ?
Mr. Pearl. On the contrary, she didn't like the idea, but she was
vetoed by myself and I decided to go ahead.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliatwas531? What were they going to do ?
Mr. Pearl. They were interested in the jukebox industry.
Mr. Kennedy. In the latter part of October, of 1956, and this is
again about the same time you were having these negotiations, there
was a meeting called at the restaurant called the Living Room Restau-
rant, on Second Avenue, in New York City ?
Mr. Pearl. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That was a meeting for the most part of jukebox
operators ; is that right ?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Cohen addressed the group, and at that
time he told them that if they were dissatisfied with local 1690, he was
going to be able to establish a setup that would offer more protection
to the operators ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir ; that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And that if they signed with his union, that he would
be able, through his connections, to prevent the delivery of beer and
other supplies to the various locations ?
Mr. Pearl. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The union was going to be established vdth the help
and the assistance of the operators ; is that right ?
16788 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. There was no discussion about the employees, how
this was going to help the employees ?
Mr. Pearl. None that I recall.
Mr. Ivennedy. And it was all as to establishing the union to help
the operators and help them keep their locations ?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. At that meeting of the operators, you were nomi-
nated as president ; is that right ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir ; I was.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were elected ; is that right ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. So you were elected. Cohen took over the position
of business manager of the local and you were the president ?
Mr. Pearl. I was the president in name only, and this meeting took
place in October of 1956. My duties with this particular local did
not commence until the end of February of 1957. I then turned my
resignation in on April 1 of that same year.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio was secretary-treasurer ?
Mr. Pearl. I don't recall, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know Giovanelli ?
Mr. Pearl. I might have met him at that meeting, but I did not
know him prior or did not see him afterwards.
The Chairman. Would you recognize a photograph of him ?
Mr. Pearl. I may, sir.
The Chairman. I hand you a photograph that bears New York
City police No. 316100, then another number of 12956.
I will ask you to examine it and state if you can identify the person
in the photograph.
(The photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Kennedy. That is Giovanelli.
Mr. Pearl. I do believe that he was present at the meeting that was
held at the Living Room Club.
The Chairman. You think he was present at that meeting. Do
you think you recognize him as one of those who were present ?
Mr. Pearl. Pardon me, sir. I didn't hear you.
The Chairman. I say, do you think you recognize the picture as a
photograph of someone who was present at that organizational
meeting ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, I do believe he was prevSent.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 20.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 20" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the Select Committee.)
The Chairman. Is this the man who became secretary-treasurer
of your union ?
Mr. Pearl. I don't recall, sir.
The Chairman. You honestly don't know about that?
Mr. Pearl. No, I don't.
The Chairman. But you think he was present ?
Mr. Pearl. I do believe he was present.
Mr. Kennedy. October 26, 1957, the minutes of that meeting show,
among other things, that Fred Giovanelli was nominated and sec-
onded for financial secretary-treasurer and recorded. This man was
made financial secretary of this union, or do you know?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16789
Mr. Pearl. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been arrested four times, burglary, assault
and robbery, assault and robbery with gun, and he was convicted
only of simple assault in 1954.
You were elected in October of 1956. AVhen did you find out where
the headquarters were ?
Mr. Pearl. I would say in February of 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. That was about the time that Mr. Cohen's brother
returned and he wanted to release you as an employee of local 433
and put his brother in as organizer?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. So he said that he would arrange to have you placed
on the payroll of 531 ; is that right?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. When you were president of 531 you weren't draw-
ing any salary ?
Mr. Pearl. No, I was not drawing any salary and I had no duties.
Mr. Kennedy. So he put you in in 433 and in 531. In 531 you
were president. When his brother came back about a month after
this occurred, he put his brother in to replace you in 433 and started
paying you a salary from 531 ; is that right ?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. AVliat were your duties ? Wliat were you supposed
to be doing for 531 or for 433 ?
Mr. Pearl. Organizational duties, primarily.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go around to the various taverns ?
Mr. Pearl. Not for 433 ; only for local 531.
Mr. Ivennedy. What would you do?
Mr. Pearl. I would go with a picket.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the picket ?
Mr. Pearl. Well, it varied on occasions, but Somiy Parker was a
picket.
Mr. Kennedy. Sonny Parker ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Was he the one that you traveled with the most?
Mr. Pearl. On most occasions I would say.
Mr. Kennedy. So you and the picket would go around. "What
would you do then ?
Mr. Pearl. We would take the yellow pages and frequent taverns
and I would go into the tavern, introduce myself to the owner, and
request that we enlisted his cooperation as respects the jukebox on the
premises, asking him to please pull the plug.
Mr. Kennedy. To pull the plug?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, and informing him that the jukebox was not — or
the operator of the jukebox was not a member of local 531, and would
he please have the operator contact the local offices, local 531 offices.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever talk to an employee ?
Mr. Pearl. Perhaps on an occasion, if the owner was not present
at the time I visited the bar.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever talk to the man who serviced
Mr. Pearl. An employee, do you mean, of the
Mr. Kennedy. The man who serviced the machines.
Mr. Pearl, I don't believe so.
16790 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. The fellow that you were trying to get into the union ;
did you ever actually talk to him ?
Mr. Pearl. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. This is the procedure you were told to follow?
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Ask him to pull the plug from the macliine and turn
it to the wall and put another machine in ?
Mr. Pearl. I don't believe I asked him to turn it to the wall. I had a
prepared speech that was given to me by Mr. Cohen and it didn't in-
clude, I don't believe, telling him to turn the machine to the wall.
The Chairman. As I understood, what you did was you got him to
pull the plug so that the machine wouldn't operate.
Mr. Pearl. That is what I requested of the owner.
The Chairman. You requested that and told him to have the oper-
ator, the one who had put the machine in there, get in touch with your
local ?
Mr. Pearl. Well, with the local, sir.
The Chairman. Your local, the one that you were representing.
Isn't that correct ?
Mr. Pearl. In a sense ; yes.
The CiiAmMAN. In a sense ?
Mr. Pearl. Well, I considered myself
The Chairman. That is what you were doing at the time, pre-
sumably, and what you thought you were doing, working for that
local, to get members.
Mr. Pearl. I thought of myself as an employee ; that is correct.
The Chahiman. The way you were getting members was to get
the location owner to pull the plug and have the operator get in touch
with your local.
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
The Chairman. Then the pressure was put on, of course, to join
your local.
Mr. Pearl. Not by me, sir.
The Chairman. I know not by you. You were performing your
job to get him in contact.
Mr. Pearl. That is correct.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. If your request was refused, if they refused to pull
the plug, what would you do then, generally ?
Mr. Pearl. The picket was usually placed outside the location.
Mr. Kennedy. And he started marching up and down ?
Mr. Pearl. That is right.
The Chairman. Did he carry a sign already prepared ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, he did, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You made no ejQfort to sign up any of the employees ?
Mr. Pearl. I did not.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know if anyone ever joined the union
through your efforts ?
Mr. Pearl. I don't know whether they joined through my efforts,
but I do believe there were people that joined,
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know that ?
Mr. Pearl. I presumed it. I would state that I know of two people,
1 believe. I mentioned previously how I know it, by virtue of being
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16791
given these cards, these membership cards which I presmned them to
be.
Mr. Ejennedt. Was that a membership card, an application card, or
what?
Mr. Pearl, It was either membership or application. I do not
know at this time.
Mr. Kennedy. So you don't know, really, if anyone joined the
union ?
Mr. Pearl. It would just be a presumption on my part.
Mr. Kennedy. As president of the union, did you ever meet any
of the members of the union ?
Mr. Pearl. Well, only. I would say, at the time of the inception
of the union, which was in October.
Mr. I^NNEDY. Wliich was at the meeting ?
Mr. Pearl. At the meeting ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Beyond that, after you were made president, did
you ever meet any of the members of the union ?
Mr. Pearl. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever see a membership book ?
Mr. Pearl. No; I did not, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever see a collective bargaining agreement?
Mr. Pearl. I did not, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever see a membership list ?
Mr. Pearl. No, sir ; I did not.
Mr. KIennedy. Do you know if they had a bank account ?
Mr. Pearl. I do not know.
Mr. Kennedy. Who paid you? Where did the money come from?
Mr, Pearl. Mr. Cohen paid me from his private checking account.
Mr. KJENNEDY. What was local 531 ? Who was 531 ?
Mr. Pearl. Mr. Cohen.
Mr. Kennedy. He was 531 ?
Mr. Pearl. Well, to me he was.
Mr. Kennedy. If somebody came to you and wanted to join the
union, what would you do ?
Mr. Pearl. I would send them to Mr. Cohen.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know how to get them in the union your-
self?
Mr. Pearl. No ; I did not, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You resigned from local 531 in April of 1957?
Mr. Pearl. April 1, 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. So you stayed only a few short months ?
Mr. Pearl. A few short weeks.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, from October
Mr. Pearl. I am sorry. Well, actively a few short weeks; inac-
tively, a few short months.
Mr. KJENNEDY. I think the whole thing sounds a little brief, doesn't
it?
Mr. Pearl. On my part I hope so.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you an applicant for the charter of 531 ?
Mr. Pearl. No ; I was not.
Mr. Kennedy. Your name appears on it. Did you know that?
Mr. Pearl. No.
Mr. Kennedy. The first meeting you held, the organizational meet-
ing, was there ever any meeting after that ?
16792 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Pearl. None to my knowledge, and none which I attended.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know if any of the operators that you were
trying to sign up were self-employed ? Do you know that ?
Mr. Pearl. The operators, whether they were self-employed?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Pearl. No; I am afraid I don't understand the question.
Mr. Kennedy. When you went around to these locations, and when
you were trying to sign the operators up, did you know if they actually
had any employees or whether they were self-employed?
Mr. Pearl. Well, truthfully, at the time that I was employed in
local 531, 1 had no prior knowledge of the industry, and I did not know
any of the operators personally. I didn't even know what the word
"operator" really inferred at the time.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't know anything about the industry or any-
thing about the union ?
Mr. Pearl. No ; I didn't know whether an operator was an employee
or an employer.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you enjoy being president of local 531 ?
Mr. Pearl. I wouldn't have turned in my resignation had I.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know what international it was a part of ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, I did, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know at the time ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, I did. I didn't know where the international was
located or have any meetings or affiliations with any international
representatives, but I did know that it was United Industrial Workers.
The Chairman. Did it have a headquarters ?
Mr. Pearl. I couldn't say, sir.
The Chairman. Did you ever find the headquarters of it?
Mr. Pearl. I never attempted to, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the union that Mr. LaKocco, who appeared
this morning, is international president of. He took the fifth amend-
ment.
The Chairman. Did you have a headquarters for local 531 ?
Mr. Pearl. There was an office, yes ; a store.
The Chairman. An office?
Mr. Pearl. Well, it was a store, actually. It was an office store.
The Chairman. Would you recognize a picture of it if you would
see it?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, I would, definitely.
The Chairman. I will ask you to examine this and state if this is a
picture of your headquarters, local 531.
(The photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Pearl. Yes, sir ; that is a picture of it.
The Chairman. That picture may be made exhibit No. 21.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 21" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. Did you have a desk in it ?
Mr. Pearl. Yes, it did, sir.
The Chairman. Was the inside appearance about the same as the
outside ?
Mr. Pearl. I would say a little more presentable.
The Chairman. A little what ?
Mr. Pearl. A little more presentable.
. IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16793
Mr. Kennedy. This place is now Mr. Cafriano's place of operation,
Mr. Chairman. At various times during the past few years it has
served as the headquarters for 4G5 of the lUE, 465 Independent, 433
of the RCIA, 531 of UIU, 465 Independent, and 465 CUE.
The Chairman. It looks like it has been shopworn considerably. I
can understand now.
Were you folks the last occupants of it ?
Mr. Pearl. Pardon me, sir ?
The Chairman. Was 531 the last occupant of it?
Mr. Pearl. I wouldn't know. I didn't arrange for the signing of
the lease.
The Chairman. You don't know what happened after you left ?
Mr. Pearl. I don't know at all.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, also, that is the place where Mr. Gil-
bert, the witness yesterday, was repairing the inside of the office, and
when one of the employees resigned he was made recording secretary
of the union.
That is all.
The Chairman. All right. Thank you very much.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. This witness has testified that he brought a picket
around with him, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Sonny Parker. I would like to
call Mr. Parker.
The Chairman. Come forward, Mr. Parker. Be sworn.
You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Sen-
ate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Parker. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SONNY PARKER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SAMUEL P. SHAPIRO
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation ?
Mr. Parker. Sonny Parker is my name. I live at 606 Marcy Ave-
nue, Brooklyn.
The Chairman. In Brooklyn ?
Mr. Parker. Brooklyn, N. Y.
The Chairman. What is your business or occupation. Sonny ?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Sonny, you have a lawyer, do you ?
Mr. Parker. Yes.
The Chairman. Mr. Lawyer, identify yourself.
Mr. Shapiro. Samuel P. Shapiro, 188 Montague Street, Brooklyn,
N.Y.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I must protest about this. This wit-
ness has been most cooperative. We do not have one piece of deroga-
tory information on him. He has cooperated during all of our investi-
gation. We have had a number of conferences w^ith him. He has
given us all the information that we have asked of him. This com-
mittee does not have one single piece of derogatory information about
this man. I would like to find out what has happened in the last 24
hours that has brought about his taking the fifth amendment.
16794 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. Ask him.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this man has a fine reputation.
There is nothing in his background or career that has anything of a
derogatory nature. I think it is outrageous.
The Chairman. How old are you, Sonny ?
Mr. Parker. I am 28.
The Chairman. Wliere were you born ?
Mr. Parker. In New York.
The Chairman. You were born in New York. Did you go to school
there?
Mr. Parker. Yes, I did.
The Chairman. What was your first job after you got out of school ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I would like to find out and ask if this
lawyer, the attorney, is also the attorney for Mr. Cohen, who is a main
witness and a witness about whom we have a good deal of derogatory
information.
Mr. Shapiro. If Mr. Cohen will be called, I will appear for him.
The Chairman. What is the attorney's name ?
Mr. Shapiro. I have given it to you. Samuel P. Shapiro.
The Chairman. Sonny Parker, let me ask you : Have you hereto-
fore been talking to members of the committee staff ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline.
Mr. Kennedy. I spent an hour with him myself, Mr. Chairman, and
Mr. Walter May and Mr. Constandy have had several interviews with
him.
The Chairman. Let me ask the witness two or three questions.
Did you retain this lawyer who sits there by you now? Did you,
yourself, retain him to represent you ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The Chairman. I am asking you. You don't have to ask him about
that. I am asking you. Did you retain him ?
Mr. Parker. Yes, I retained him.
The Chairman. When? When?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The Chairman. I mean business now. I am not taking any foolish-
ness. Tell me when you hired him?
Mr. Parker. I hired him after I was subpenaed.
The Chairman. After what?
Mr. Parker. After I had been subpenaed.
The Chairman. When did you hire him?
Mr. Parker. I can't remember the date offhand.
The Chairman. Was it yesterday?
Mr. Parker, No, it was not.
The Chairman. Did you talk to members of the committee staff
yesterday? Did you?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The Chairman. Did you talk to membei-s of the committee staff
yesterday ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Parker. Not about the business here.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16795
The Chairman. You didn't discuss this matter with the committee
staff yesterday. When did you hire this attorney? You ought to
know something about it.
Mr. Parker. It was sometime in November I hired him.
The Chairman. Sometime last November you hired this lawyer?
Have you paid him anything ?
Mr. Parker. No, but we liave made arrangements.
The Chairman. What are your arrangements?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Parker. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. I talked to you in November or December. You
didn't have this attorney with you at that time, Mr. Parker. There
wasn't anything that I asked you that could possibly incriminate you
and the answers that you gave.
The Chairman. Put on your witnesses that talked to him. Let's
have the story.
Mr. Kennedy. The only thing we were going to ask him was if he
was a picket and if he had the same kind of testimony as the previous
witness. He went around from place to place; he was sent around
there by Mr. Cohen.
He gave us all of these cards. He said he had five or six cards.
He worked for various locals at various times as a professional picket.
The one particular local he was working for at the time, he would keep
that card in his vest pocket to make sure he could remember what
local he was working for, and the rest of the cards he kept in his back
pocket.
Is that right, Mr. Parker? That is the only reason. You were a
professional picket and you went around and that was all you did.
It was a job that you had. There wasn't one bit of derogatory infor-
mation. You were given the job by Mr. Cohen, who sent you around
and gave you all of these cards and told you how to pull them out.
If there was somebody who did anything wrong, it was Mr. Cohen ; it
wasn't you.
The Chairman. Do you want to testify and tell the truth, or do you
want to join up with this gang of thugs? Is that what you want to
do ? You make the choice. You are making it here today.
The staff tells me they haven't anything on you. There isn't any
reason why you couldn't come up here and tell the truth. Do you
want to join that gangster element in this country, that underworld,
the scum of humanity, or do you want to be a man ? Which do you
want to do ? Can you answer ?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. You know what you are doing, I assume.
Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Do you want to ask any questions ?
Mr. Kennedy. I will say, Mr. Chairman, the second point we have
of interest on Mr. Parker was that he was also made international
vice president of this union, the UIU, and we believe that he is now
secretary-treasurer of local 531. There isn't anything beyond that
that we were going to ask him about. We have no information of any
misuse of union funds or misuse of his position, or his threatening
anybody, nor does he have a police record or a criminal record.
16796 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. Look at that. What is it?
(The document was handed to the witness.)
The Chairman. What is it? What is that before you that I am
presenting to you ? Do you recognize it ?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. I hand you another one. Do you recognize that ?
Wliatisit?
( The document was handed to the witness. )
The Chairman. Isn't that your name and the card that was issued
to you ?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. I show you another one. Does it bear your name ?
(The document was handed to the witness.)
The Chairman. Aren't these cards from unions, listing you as a
picket, that sent you out to do pirket work ? Isn't that true?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. I show you another one. Wasn't that one issued
to you as a picket to go out and do picket work ?
(The document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer.
The Chairman. And didn't you actually serv^e as a professional
picket ? Isn't that true ?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer, sir.
The Chairman. Are you ashamed of them ? Are you ashamed of
your name and the cards that were issued to you ?
Mr. Parker. I respectfully decline to answer, sir.
The Chairman. Is that as loud as you can say it ?
Let these cards be made exhibit No. 22.
(Cards referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 22" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Parker, the fact is that you have been intimi-
dated, have you not, and that is why you are taking the fifth amend-
ment now ? Isn't that correct ?
Isn't that correct, Mr. Parker ?
Mr. Parker. I decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been told by Mr. Cohen and his associates
that you have to take the fifth amendment ; is that right ? Isn't that
right, that you have been threatened and that is why you are taking
the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Parker. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Kennedy. You haven't done anything, Mr. Parker. There is
no reason and you know as well as we do that there is no reason.
We checked yoiii- background. We checked your activities. You
never threatened anybody. You always behaved as a gentleman when
you went into the taverns.
The fact that there was any problem was from the people that
came around with you. You never did anything. You behaved ab-
solutely perfectly. You were hired for this job, and you told us
all about the fact that you were hired.
The only reason, the only ex])lanation that can possibly be given for
taking the fifth amendment now is that you have been threatened,
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16797
intimidated, and ordered to take the fifth amendment, because of your
rehitionsliip witli Cohen,
That is true ; is it not \ Won't you tell us that, Mr. Parker ?
Mr. Parker. 1 respectfully decline to answer on the ground of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. There is no money involved in this, no violence, no
money. You didn't hire this attorney right after you were served
with a subpena, which was served on the 29th of October, because you
came up and saw me after that and you didn't have any attorney
with you. I saw you in New York City. You didn't have any at-
torney with you. You answered all the questions very freely and
openly.
The Chairman. Is there anything else?
You will remain under subpena. You will remain here the rest of
the afternoon. You are subject to recall at such time as the cormnittee
desires further testimony from you.
Do you acknowledge that recognizance?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Parker. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You know what it means ; do you ?
Mr. Parker. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. It means you are to be back here upon notice, with-
out being resubpenaed. Do you understand that?
Mr. Parker. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You will also be under orders that if anyone
undertakes to mtimidate you, coerce you, threaten you in any way,
about your testimony, about your appearance, to report it to the
committee.
Will you do that?
Mr. Parker. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Will you do it now? Has anyone threatened you,
intimidated or coerced you ? Have they ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The Chairman. Have they undertaken to? Have they got you
scared ?
Mr. Parker. No, sir.
The Chairman. Then don't get scared. But you report it, if any-
thing happens ; will j-ou ?
Mr. Parker. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you talked to Mr. Cohen about this matter,
your testimony here ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Parker. I decline to answer.
The Chairman. Stand aside.
Call the next witness-
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to call the attorney's other client, Mr.
Cohen.
The Chairman. Come forward, Mr. Cohen. Be sworn.
You do solemnl}^ swear the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Cohen. I do.
36751—59 — pt. 46 22
16798 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF AL COHEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, SAMUEL P.
SHAPIRO
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Cohen. My name is Al Cohen. I reside at 32 Highland,
Levittown, Long Island.
The Chairman. What is your business or occupation ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Are you a thief ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Are you a thug?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Are you a gangster ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Are you an Ajnerican citizen ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Are you ashamed of your country ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Do you love your country ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman- Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us when you last talked to the pre-
vious witness Mr. Parker?
The Chairman. Let the record show the same counsel appearing
for this witness who appeared for the previous witness.
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you threaten Mr. Parker that he should take the
fifth amendment or otherwise he would be in difficulty ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that he had intended to testify and
that you then ordered and instructed him to take the fifth amendment.
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. That is correct, is it not, that that is what you did,
that this man was about to testify and then you told him that he had
to appear before the committee and take the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. Are you a coward ? Can you understand that?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. Proceed.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16799
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this witness has run the gamut of
most of these unions in the coin business in New York City : Local 433
RCIA, Local 531 UIU, and certain others.
It is correct, is it not, that all these unions were set up in order to
give protection to the operators ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. That you were never interested in the employees ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And what you were selling was your gangster con-
nections and the intimidation that would follow upon location owners ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. You have connections such as Tony Ducks Corallo ;
is that right ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And Dick Kaminetsky, one of Tony Ducks Corallo's
assistants ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And Carmine Lombardozzi — wasn't he another one
of your associates as was testified to here yesterday ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. KIennedy. That if an operator was told if he made arrange-
ments with you, you would sell him these stickers for his machines and
that he would no longer have labor difficulties ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Ivennedy. And that meeting was set up by Carmine Lombar-
dozzi ; is that not right ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
. Mr. Kennedy. And aren't you also, as was testified to here, a friend
or associate of Johnny Dioguardi's ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't that why you have been successful in this field ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment,
Mr. Kennedy. And lately you have turned your organizational ef-
forts to help local 266 of the Teamsters ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. So that the various members and representatives of
the underworld are getting together and organizing behind local 266
of the Teamsters to try to get a monopoly control over the coin-ma-
chine business in New York City ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
16800 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find that that is a rather easy way to pro-
ceed, Mr. Cohen, that a big man like you can bring all of this pressure
on the small-tavern owners and people such as Sonny Parker ?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find that people have difficulty standing up
to things like that, Mr. Cohen, when you have people like Lombar-
dozzi, and Tony Ducks Corallo behind you?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And it makes you a big figure when you go to a meet-
ing and you can announce, "I am going to shut ofT all of the beer and
supplies to the tavern owners, unless they fall in line and go along with
our plan."
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were never interested in employees, were
you?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were just interested in yourself and your
racket friends?
Mr. Cohen. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the
fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Do you have any questions, Senator ?
Senator Church. No, Mr. Chairman, I think the witness has
demonstrated who he is more eloquently than we can.
The Chapman. The witness will remain under subpena, under the
jurisdiction of the committee subject to being called at such time as
the committee may desire to hear further testimony from j^ou.
Do you acknowledge that recognizance ?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You may stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mrs. Goldberg.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I do.
TESTIMONY OP MRS. SYLVIA GOLDBERG, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, HENRY A. ROBINSON
Tlie Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mrs. Goldberg. My name is Sylvia Goldberg and I live at 189-14
12tli Avenue in Flusliing, and I am a housewife.
The Chairman. You have counsel. Will you identify yourself ?
Mr. Robinson. My name is Henry A. Robinson, R-o-b-i-n-s-o-n, 15
Park Road, New York 38, N. Y.
The Chairman. We will proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been employed by various unions, or by a
union, Mrs. Goldberg?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16801
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Well, Mi. Chairman, she also answered questions.
The Chairman. Maybe she wants to join that motley crew that
comes up here. If you do, that is your privilege.
Mr. Kennedy. Slie is not in the same class as one of the previous
witnesses we had, Mr. Chairman. On one of the previous witnesses
we had no derogatory information, and she is not in the same classifi-
cation.
The Chairman. Proceed to interrogate her about these matters.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mrs. Goldberg, before you went into the union
operations, you were a model ; is that right, a former model?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. You operated a hat check concession at a night club
in Brooklyn ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
IMr. Kennedy. And then Mr. Al Cohen, a friend of yours, took you
into the union ; is that right ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And you ultimately ended up, did you not, being
appointed president of local 531, of the UIU with Al Cohen becoming
secretary-treasurer?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the gi'ound of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, Mr. LaRocco had appointed Mr. Cohen as the
secretary-treasurer, and then it was not Mr. Cohen who made you
president, it was Mr. LaRocco who also appointed you president.
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you did not know until this very
moment that you were president of that local ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And isn't it correct that when our staff interviewed
you, you did not know that you were president of local 531 of the
UIU?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Nobody told you, did they ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. May, please.
TESTIMONY OF WALTER R. MAY— Resumed
The Chairman. The Chair presents to you a letter dated August 14,
1957, on United Industrial Union stationery, and I wish you would
examine the letter and state if you identify it and state where 3^ou
procured it.
16802 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. May. Senator, this is a letter from the United Industrial Unions,
signed by Mr. LaRocco, and it was delivered by Mr. LaRocco to our
office.
The Chairman. The letter may be made exhibit No. 23.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit 23" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 16934.)
The Chairman. I will read from the letter. This is a letter from
Joseph LaRocco, United Industrial Unions, to Mr. Al Cohen, Local
631, UIU, 2115 Euclid Avenue, Brooklyn, N.Y., and dated August 14,
1957. It says:
Dear Al : Pursuant to our conversation at my office, I am exercising my au-
thority as president of the United Industrial Unions to appoint temporary officers
for local 531. I am designating Sylvia Goldberg as president and Mr. Al Cohen
as secretary-treasurer. It is understood that these positions are appointed until
your rank-and-file meeting, where permanent officers shall be elected.
Fraternally yours.
Did you know at that time that you were appointed, Mrs. Groldberg ?
TESTIMONY OF MRS. SYLVIA GOLDBERG, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, HENRY A. ROBINSON— Resumed
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Did you draw a salary out of this union ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Who gave you your instructions ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Did you perform any kind of service for the union ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Were all of your services personal to Mr, Cohen ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you stay in as president ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, you kept the books and records for Mr. Cohen
in local 433 ; is that right ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the gromid of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. And you made the arrangements to send out the
pickets, did you ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you take all of your instructions from Mr.
Cohen about the keeping of the books and sending out of the pickets
to locations ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you take any messages regarding the placement
of the pickets or take any messages in connection with that ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16803
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Did the association call in and tell you when to send
the pickets out ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Will you give us any information regarding the
operation of that union ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. Will you give us any information regarding the
operation of local 531 ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any questions ?
Senator Church. You understand, don't you, by failing to answer
these questions, you leave us with no alternative but to believe that
the statements the counsel has made are true ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Senator Church. That is the impression that you voluntarily want
to leave on the public record ?
Mrs. Goldberg. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of
the fifth amendment.
Senator Church. That is all.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. You may stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. I want to call Mr. Constandy to put in some figures
regarding Mr. Cohen's bank account and the financing of the union.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY— Resumed
The Chairman. You have been previously sworn, have you ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, sir, I have.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us, Mr. Constandy, what the records
show about the finances of Mr. Cohen, and the amount of money that
was going through his bank account during this period of time ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. When he was active in the unions involved in the
jukebox business.
Mr. Constandy. First of all, in the testimony of Mr. Cohen during
the injunctive proceedings in New York Supreme Court against
local 531, Mr. Cohen there testified that he didn't have a bank account
for the local, that he paid all of the expenses himself, either in cash
or by personal check. He said that the local had no books or records
although it functioned for 6 months or more. Now Mr. Cohen has
furnished to us a series of checks which were used to pay the picket
for local 531 for one Clyde Maldone, who was a picket for 531 and
he was paid a total of $120.46.
16804 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Jimmy Newkirk-
Mr. Kennedy. I don't think that we have to ^o through each one.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. I will summarize there. One is $134. Mr. Parker
received $148. Telephone answering checks to Mr. Cohen's own ac-
count amounted to $34.50.
Now there was an examination of Mr. Cohen's personal bank ac-
count of the Chase-Manhattan Bank, that was conducted under my
supervision, and he opened an account on February 3, 1956, and closed
it on January 6, 1958.
During this period, some $27,000 passed through his account, and
of this amount, $20,000 went through the account during the period
September of 1956 to October of 1957. That is the period that local
activity of local 531 in the jukebox field.
Mr. Kennedy. We are unable to tell from an examination of the
records where that money came from, or where the money went out ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct. It is significant, though, that
his account did not show that activity either prior or following the
activity of local 531 in the jukebox field.
The Chairman. As I understand, there was about $20,000 came in
from local 531 during about 12 or 13 months' time.
Mr. Kennedy. It came into his personal bank accoimt.
The Chairman. He didn't keep an account in the name of the local ?
Mr. Constandy. There were no accounts kept in the name of the
local and there were few items turned over to the committee pursuant
to the subpena.
The Chairman. Let me see. There is $20,000 that came into his
personal account. Did you identify that as coming to local 531 ?
Mr. Constandy. No, we did not, Senator. It came into his per-
sonal account during the period that local 531 was in existence. It
is only significant that his account showed this great activity during
the time that he was active in attempting to organize the jukebox
field.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Mr. Kennedy. Are there any other figures there that are important ?
Mr. Constandy. Not with regard to figures.
Mr. Kennedy. We have some material on the contracts that we
could put in quickly, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Constandy. Mr. Cohen had testified earlier again at the in-
junctive proceedings in New York that local 531 had entered into about
10 collective bargaining agreements, and of those 10, he produced for
this committee 4, 1 for Lamotto, 1 for Crescent, and —
The Chairman. That is known as "Miami Phil" ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, sir. And one for Mr. McCann, who was a
witness today, and one from G & M Vending Co.
The contracts call for 6 holidays against 12 in the 1690 contract, and
$1.50 an hour wages for a 40-hour week, which is roughly $25 a week
below the other jukebox union. Mr. Corbisiero's contract, however,
only called for $1.25 an hour, which is $35 less than the existing con-
tract in the industry with 1690. Apparently there had been some ad-
vantage to Mr. Corbisiero in his contract. The contracts also provided
for 2 percent of the gross pay, payable to the union welfare fund, and
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16805
we have not been able to establish whether those collections were ever
made or whether the fund had ever been established.
Mr. Kennedy. We can't tind any bank account on that ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. No, we cannot.
Mr. Cohen had also testified that he had signed one Anthony Torac-
co, alias Teddy Brooks, as a member of local 531. Mr. Toracco op-
erates the J & i^ Music Co., and he is a partner with Frank and Jimmy
Piccarelli, alias Rush brothers, and of the three, Jimmy Piccarelli and
Mr. Toracco are both flao;rant narcotics violators.
Mr. Brooks told me that he received his 531 stickers without having^
paid for them and he received them in the mail. Now, I think the re-
sults of the picketing is also significant, in that of the seven firms
which apparently aligned themselves with local 531, the following lo-
cations were acquired by them during the period that they were active :
Mr. Corbisiero's Crescent Amusement Co. had taken 11 locations, and
Mr. Mocutowitz had taken 2, and Circle Amusement 7, and Cello,
which is another firm operated by Mr. Kutolow, had taken 2, and the
Lamotto had taken 2, and J & P Music, which is Toracco, 4, and the
McCann firm 6, for a total of 34 locations that had been secured by
these 8 firms that were contracting with local 531.
Mr. Kennedy. And a number of those firms that you have read have
these notorious gangster connections ?
Mr. Constaxdy. Well, there is some connection, yes.
The opinion which I am about to read is from the Supreme Court
of the State of New York, county of New York, in the action entitled
'■'-Music Operators of New York, Incorporated^ et al.^ Plaintiffs v. Mor-
timer Pearl, as President of United Industrial Unions Local 55iy
Mr. Kennedy. Is this the same case that we had the testimony on
this morning from the witness, that Mr. Cohen came to him and before
he went to testify and told him that he should testify he was a member
of his local ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Even though the f a<;t was that he was not a member
of the local ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
IVIi'. Kennedy. What occurred in fact was subornation of perjury of
which ]Mr. Cohen was involved.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Apparently.
Mr. Kennedy. All right.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Mr. Justice Coleman states :
This is not a labor dispute as the defendants assert it is. On the contrary, it is
a controversy that arises from the efforts of individuals acting under the suise
of a fictitious union, but really in behalf of owners of jukebox machines. These
efforts were intended to have owners of bars and grills where jukebox machines
had been installed, remove them and replace them by jukebox machines owned
by those in whose behalf the individuals were working. The so-called union had
no mechanics or service people who would be prepared to take over the servicing
of the machines ; the methods to obtain "cooperation" of the owners of bars
and grills by "pulling out the plug" of the machine already there was a startling
unconventional manner of obtaining union contracts with the owner of the
machines. If the defendants were interested in legitimate union activities and
in obtaining collective bargaining agreements with the owners of the machines,
there was no call to disrupt service of the old machines and to demand the in-
stallation of others owned by different people. Union members, no matter to
what union they belonged, could continue to service the machines already in
place, no matter who owned them.
16806 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
It is clear that the defendants do not constitute a bona fide union. Instead of
having the interest of the employees at heart, they were obviously concerned
with special interests, with organizing machine box owners. But in doing so they
could not intimidate owners of bars and grills, or the association to which they
belonged, or to attempt by primitive methods to disrupt relations between the
owners of bars and grills, their association and the legitimate union to which
the servicemen belonged and with which the owners and their association had
a collective bargaining agreement. There will be judgments for the plaintiffs
against all defendants except Caggiano.
And this is an aside. He had been named a party to that action.
The Chairman. That document that you just read from, is a pho-
tostatic copy of a supreme court decision ?
Mr. CoNSTANDT. Yes, Senator, it is a certified copy of the original
record.
The Chairman. That will be made exhibit No. 24 for reference.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 24" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Chairman, we have had testimony regard-
ing the UIU, the International Union. Now I would like to go into
the operations of another international union. The last witness of
the day will testify how local 19 was set up. Local 19 was operated
by the Gallo brothers, who have this extensive criminal record and
criminal background, and it was local 19 which ultimately led to
Local 266 of the Teamsters.
In that connection we have a witness by the name of Sol Javors.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Javors. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SOL JAVORS
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Javors. My name is Sol Javors, and I reside in Plainview, N. Y.,
and I am in the insurance business.
The Chairman. Thank you. Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Javors. I do.
The Chairman. All right, proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. You obtained a law degree from Brooklyn Law
School in 1951 ; is that right?
Mr. Javors. 1941.
Mr. Kennedy. And you are also an insurance broker ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And you have been cooperating with this committee
over a period of the last 3 or 4 months ?
Mr, Javors. I hope so.
Mr. Kennedy. In 1950, or thereabouts — you spell your name
J-a-v-o-r-s ; is that right ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. You and several associates decided to form an in-
ternational union ?
Mr. Javors. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate to the committee briefly as to how
that came about ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16807
Mr. Javors. Well, in July 1950, 1 and several friends and associates
decided that there was the need for a small independent union in the
metropolitan area of New York. I, personally, was intimately fa-
miliar with the laundry industry, having worked there and having
a strong family background in the laundry industry, and one of my
associates, a Mr. William Evans, who had been in the check-cashing
business, felt that there was a strong possibility for bank employees
in the metropolitan area to be represented by an independent union.
With that in mind. Federated Service Workers Union was formed
in July of 1950. It was my primary purpose to see that the laundry
industry was properly represented. During my association with
Federated, a laundry local was, in fact, the strongest local in the or-
ganization, and I believe is still in that category.
Mr. Kennedy. You formed the international called Federated
Service Workers Union ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. KJENNEDY. You stayed with that union and with that organ-
ization some 7 or so years. Looking back on it, could you give us any
summary of the situation and your own participation in it ?
Mr. Javors. Well, in the beginning, of course, I had hoped that my
participation would be to a much greater extent than it subsequently
was. I had hoped that in addition to those motives which were sin-
cere, to improve labor conditions in certain industries, I had hoped,
too, that it could possibly be a source of income for me and my insur-
ance business.
During my years of association with Federated, my activities in the
insurance business became more extensive and more successful, to the
extent that I devoted less and less time to Federated, and incidentally,
with the exception of a small partial commission I received on one
welfare fund case, I received absolutely no income whatever from
Federated or any of its locals.
Mr. KJENNEDY. One of those who came into the union, who set up
this international union with you, was a man by the name of Jolin
Amalfitano ; is that right ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. KJENNEDY. He will be a very important figure and a key wit-
ness, Mr. Chairman, as we go along.
He was in on the situation originally ?
Mr. Javors. That is right.
Mr. KJENNEDY. And subsequently he took over to a greater and
greater extent the granting of the charters to various locals of the in-
ternational union ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. The international union then proceeded over the
next few years to grant charters out, to various industries; is that
right?
Mr. Javors. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Amalfitano was one of those who played a
very important role in the granting of the charters ?
Mr. Javors. I would say so.
Mr. KJENNEDY. He would come in with a group of people, come to
you, and suggest that a charter be granted; Is that correct?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
16808 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. When he did that, you never made an investigation
yourself of the background of these people ?
Mr. Javors. No. I relied on Mr. Amalfitano's assertions that all
was in order.
Mr. Kennedy. And the charters were then granted ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Some of these charters, as it turned out, went to very
dishonorable people, did they not ?
Mr. Javors. We had one particular local we granted a charter to,
namely Local 512 of the Messengers Union.
Mr. Ej:nnedy. That was a charter granted to Samuel Zakman and
Nicholas Leone ; is that right ?
Mr. Javors. I don't know any of the principals of that local, nor
have I ever met any of them. But in my connection as an officer
of Federated, during the existence of local 512, information was
given to us that members of this local were engaged in dishonest and
illegal practices.
Based on that. Federated revoked the charter for local 512, and
subsequent to the revocation of this charter several of the principals
of the local were indicted, and, I believe, imprisoned.
Mr. Kennedy. That local is of some interest, Mr. Chairman, be-
cause it shows the activities of these people once again, and shows
that they were not interested in the membership.
Samuel Zakman was one of those and Nicholas Leone was another
one. Samuel Zakman we had here as a witness. He was a charter
member with Johnny Dioguardi of local 102 in New York and turned
over 102 to Johnny Dio. In 1954, he and Nicholas Leone gained
control of this local. They were subsequently indicated and convicted
of extortion and were sent to the penitentiary, to jail, Zakman for
2 to 4 years, and Leone for 1 to 2 years.
In that local they had working for them as organizers three men,
Nathan Carmel, Aaron Kleinman, and — well, just these two. After
this charter was lifted by this international, Carmel and Kleinman
became business agents with a man by the name of Jack Berger, of
local 512.
Local 512 then went in to become local 875 of the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters. At that place, these three men were
all indicated for extortion and ultimately convicted. But in the
meantime they set up local 275 of the Teamsters and local 275 of
the Teamsters was one of the paper locals.
Both local 875 and local 275 of the Teamsters were controlled by
Tony Ducks Corallo, according to the testimony that we had last
year. So you can trace this back to Johnny Dioguardi, right up to
the activities in the Teamsters Union in 1957.
You became president of the international union, did you?
Mr. Javors. No; I was originally vice president, and about 3 or
4 years ago I was made secretary-treasurer.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did they have their office?
Mr. Javors. At 141 Broadway, New York.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have your own separate office there?
Mr. Javors. No ; it was a small sublet space, a little better than the
equipment of desk space, but not much better.
Mr. Kennedy. And you had a phone ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16809
Mr, Javors. Yes ; we did.
Mr. Kennedy. Who answered the phone?
Mr. Javors. Whoever was available in the office. The phone didn't
rin^ very often.
Mr. Kennedy. After you did not receive the expected insurance
business, you dropped out of the operation of the union more and
more?
Mr. Javors. Well, I wouldn't put it in quite that light, because that
might indicate my sole purpose in participating was for the insurance.
But as I became more and more active in the insurance business, and
certainly due to the fact that I received no income, be it in the form of
insurance commissions or salaries from the union, I, of course, devoted
less and less time to it.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was made president originally ?
Mr. Javors. William Evans.
Mr. Kennedy. Why was he made president ?
Mr. Javors. Well, he was instrumental. It was his thought to
organize the bank tellers in the city of New York. Of course, very
frankly, the name William Evans was a good name, shall we say, for
the president of a union.
Mr. Kennedy. You just thought it was a nice name?
Mr. Javors. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You selected the man that was around with the nicest
name and he became international president ?
Mr. Javors. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. We have an affidavit from him, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. This affidavit may be printed in the record at this
point.
Mr. Kennedy. This is from William Evans. He says that he has
been duly sworn and then he says :
I have been asked by Mr. Javors several months ago to appear as a witness
before the Labor Board and to testify regarding some case that involves local 12
of the Laundry Workers Union.
Local 12 is part of your International-
Mr. Javors. That is right.
Mr, Kennedy. And it was the one local that was run by Mr.
Amalfitano ?
Mr. Javors. That is right. He was the business manager.
(The affidavit referred to follows :)
State of New York,
County of Kings:
William Evans, being duly sworn, deposes and says that I am the president of
Federated Service Workers' Union. I am making this affidavit at the request of
Mr. Sol Javors.
I have been asked by Mr. Javors several months ago to appear as a witness
before the Labor Board to testify regarding some case that involves local 12 of
the Laundry Workers Union. At that time I told Mr. Javors that I knew nothing
about the case and I refused to be bothered. I am a wage earner and am
employed and I cannot spend any time testifying in any courts. I refused to
accept any summonses to testify and instructed my wife not to accept any such
papers.
I do not know anything about the case that is going on in the Labor Board.
I do not know anything at all about the Arrow Linen Laundry. I do not know
who owns the Arrow Linen Laundry or even where they are located. I do not
know anything about the affairs of local 12, Laundry Workers Union. I do not
know anything at all about the membership of local 12 or what shops or how
16810 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
many shops they have contracts with. I do not know anything about the finances
of local 12.
I am not active in the affairs of the Federated Service Workers Union. The
last meeting that I attended was in August 1953 at the election of officers. At
that time I refused to run again for president but I was promised that if I
accepted the oflSce that I would have no active duties to perform. Since I am
a working man and have to support my wife and family, I cannot spend any time
at meetings or in union work. I have not attended any further meetings of the
union although I have received several notices of meetings of the board of trus-
tees of Federated.
I have no actual knowledge as to the granting of the application for a charter
for local 12. I do not know who were the people who formed local 12. There is
nothing that I can testify to other than I have stated in this affidavit.
I do not receive any salary from the Federated Service Workers Union. All
its affairs are conducted by the secretary-treasurer, Mr. Javors, and its meet-
ings are conducted by the vice president, Hexton Harden.
I have come up to the office of Mr. Javors to make this affidavit so that I
would not be bothered any more about this Labor Board case or any other case.
William Evans.
Sworn to before me this 31st day of July 1954.
Sol Javobs,
Notary Public, State of New York, No. J^l-lOlHOO Qual. in Queens County.
Commission expires March 30, 1956.
Mr. Kennedy. The same situation existed for the people that fol-
lowed Mr. Evans, the presidents that followed Mr. Evans ? They also
just lent their names to it ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. There have been approximately 12 local charters
issued by this international ?
Mr. Javors. I would think that is a fair figure.
Mr. Kennedy. There is the Bank Employees Union Local 10 ; and
then the Journeymen Barbers Union Local 11. Do you know any-
thing about that ?
Mr. Javors. No, I know that was the first active union to be
chartered. Local 10 never became active.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you personally ever a barber ?
Mr. Javors. No, I wasn't.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Well, you have a statement here. The statement
here says :
We, the undersigned, consisting of more than 10 people employed as journey-
men barbers in the city of New York desire to form a union, and do hereby re-
quest the issuance of a charter for Journeymen Barbers Union local in the city
of New York.
Your name appears on it.
Mr. Javors. I don't recall ever putting my name on it.
Mr. Kennedy. You weren't a barber at the time ?
Mr. Javors. I never have been.
The Chairman. I will ask you to look at your signature and see if
you identify it.
(The document was handed to the witness.)
The Chairman. I have presented to you a document dated August
31, 1950, addressed to William Evans, president, Federated Service
Workers Union.
State if you identify your signature on it or if it is not your
signature.
Mr. Javors. That definitely is my signature.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16811
The Chairman. It is your signature ?
Mr. Javors. Yes.
The Chairman. You don't recall it ?
Mr. Javors. I don't recall the circumstances of signing it. I know
I have never been a barber.
The Chairman. You at that time were promoting unionism, ob-
viously.
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
The Chairman. You were signing anything to get a charter and
promote a union.
Mr. Javors. I don't recall the circumstances either of the signing,
or why.
The Chairman. But you do recall that you are not, and have not,
been a barber ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. There was the Bank Employees Local 10, Journey-
men Barbere Local 11, Laundry Workers Local 12 and 12-A, Restau-
rant Local 14, Journeymen Barbers, again, local 15, Clerical Workers
Union Local 16, Mechanical Workers Union No. 17, and Messengers
Local Union No. 512. They really spread themselves around.
Mr. Javors. That is right.
The Chairman. Make the document that I showed the witness ex-
hibit No. 25.
(Document referred to marked "Exhibit No. 25" for reference and
may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. I^NNEDY. Wliere would you have your meetings ?
Mr. Javors. The meetings for Federated ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Javors. Well, the original meeting was held at the Labor
Lyceum in Brooklyn. Subsequently we had a number of meetings at
various restaurants, usually in Brooklyn. We had one meeting, I
recall, at the St. George Hotel.
Mr. Kennedy. You would have them in various restaurants, also?
Mr. Javors. That is correct. On occasions there would be meetings
in my office.
Mr. KJENNEDY. This, actually, was just a paper union that handed
out charters, was it not, as it turned out ?
Mr. Javors. No ; I wouldn't put it quite as drastically as that. We
were a small, independent union. Apparently, during my being with
Federated, the only one of any success was local 12, the Laundry
Workers local, and that, to my knowledge, has always functioned
smoothly and properly.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you think this idea of a group of people getting
together and, without any office, just getting together and forming an
international and granting local charters out as they see fit — do you
think that is a proper way to proceed ?
Mr. Javors. Well, in retrospect, certainly, I would say that if this
committee accomplished nothing else but help to enact legislation
which would prevent the easy and indiscriminate chartering of locals,
I would call the contribution of this committee most worthwhile.
Mr. Kennedy. That is exactly what was going on here, was it not ?
As you look back on it, that is. Maybe you did not realize at the
16812 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
time, but as you look back on it it was, in fact, a paper international.
All you had, you said, was a phone which, you said, nobody used
particularly. The only place you met was in various restaurants
around town, and when Mr. Amalfitano had been granted to some
local union, you would grant a charter and the people were in business.
Mr. Javors. That would be a pretty accurate description; yes.
The Chairman. I hand you a document dated September 24, 1957,
which purports to be, as I read it, minutes of the meeting held in
Foffe's Restaurant. It appears to bear your signature. I ask you
to examine it and see if you identify it as purported or what you
intended to be minutes of a meeting that you held at that time.
( Document handed to the witness, )
Mr. Javors. Yes. This is in my handwriting and signed by me.
The Chairman. In other words, you just happened to meet there,
or someone called you, you met at this restaurant, had this meeting
and granted a charter ?
Mr. Javors. No, I wouldn't put it that way.
The Chairman. How did it happen that you met ?
That may be made exhibit No. 26.
(Minutes referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 26" for reference
and will be found in the appendix on p. 16935.)
Mr. Javors. Normally the way a charter was issued, the mechanics
would be as follows : A letter would be received at the office of Fed-
erated requesting a charter. I, then, would send out lettei-s to the
members of Federated, the board of trustees, and the officers, sug-
gesting that a meeting be held at a certain place and time for the
purpose of discussing whether or not a charter should be issued.
That meeting might have taken place at Foffe's Restaurant in this
particular case.
The Chairman. In other words, after you got a request for a
charter, you would send out notices or write them and say "Let's
meet at a certain place and discuss it" ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
The Chairman. That is probably what you did at that time?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
The Chairman. And you decided to issue the charter ?
Mr. Javors. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Exhibit 26 is all of the minutes of that meeting,
Mr. Chairman.
In June 1957 you gi'anted a charter to local 26, the Restaurant and
Caf teria Employees Union.
Mr. Javors. Apparently.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was to a gentleman by the name of Al
Gallo who signed the letter requesting that charter?
Mr. Javors. I would not recall.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about Gallo ?
Mr. Javors. No.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know anything about his two brothers?
Mr. Javors. Never neard of them, met them, or had any dealings
whatsoever.
]Mr. Kennedy. Amalfitano suggested these people?
Mr. Javors. I would think so, in view of what has happened.
IMPROPKll ACTINITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16813
■. i. L ;
Mr. Kennedy. "Were you acquainted with Joseph lovine, Avho was
the uncle of the Gallo's ?
Mr. Javors. I have never met him.
Mr. Kennedy. He was also an applicant and later became president
of that local.
Mr. Javors. I never knew anything of them.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlien Mr. Profacci was arrested and they went
through his address book and cards that he had, one of the cards that
he had in his possession was a card from this local.
Here is the letter requesting the charter.
Then a letter dated October 16, 1957, requested a cigarette vending
machine employees charter for local 19. Do you remember that?
Mr. Javors. Yes ; I do.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio suggested you grant that charter ?
Mr. Javors. Mr. Amalfitano.
Mr. Kennedy. The letter purports to be from a man by the name
of Diagio Latirano and six others. Did you know him ?
Mr. Javors. No. I knew none of the signatories of that letter.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know the Gallos being behind that local ?
Mr. Javors. I did not.
Mr. Kennedy. With the system that you used, of course, anybody,
any group, no matter what their backgrounds or records, could get
these charters, could they not, relying on Mr. Amalfitano ?
Mr. Javors. Well, if Mr. Amalfitano advocated the issuance of such
charter, I would say that such charter would have been issued.
Mr. Kennedy. A number of those locals that were given chartei*s
got into a good deal of difficulty with the law.
Mr. Jaa-ors. Well, the only one that I know of, other than possibly
local 19, was this local 512, which, as I say, we revoked the charter
on prior to tlieir indictment.
Mr. Ki^nnedy. Mr. Chairman, we have an affidavit from another
one of tlie piesidents of this international, bearing on the same subject.
Tlie Chairman. This affidavit may be printed in the record at this
point.
(The affidavit referred to follows :)
I. Frniik Kaliiriow. of 1770 Andrea Roart, East Meadow, N.Y., give the follow-
ing voluntary statement to James P. Kelly, who has identified himself as a staff
member of the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor
and Manatiement Field.
I received a telephone call some time in the fall of 1956 from a Sol Javors
whom I have known for many years at which time he requested that I do him
a favor by assuming the office and title of president of Federated Service Work-
ers Union. The purp<;ise of this appointment was to .serve an interim period
of about 3 months pending the election of a new president. I was not a mem-
ber of any local union affiliated with the Federated Service Workers Union or
any other labor organization at this time.
Several days later I met with Mr. Javors, a Mr. John Amalfitano and one
other unidentified man in Foffe's Restaurant on Montague Street in Brook-
lyn. During a luncheon I discussed with Mr. .Tavors and Mr. Amalfitano that
I would only work for approximately 3 months. I consented. During my
period as "president" I never signed any letters, visited any office of the Fed-
erated or performed any official acts in connection with this union. At no
time did I attend any meetings of the union or sign any checks or authorize
any disbursements from this union. After approximately 3 months I notified
Mr. Amalfitano by telegram c/o Federated Service Workers Union informing
him of my resignation as president of this union. Since that time I have never
seen Mr. Amalfitano or spoken to him on the telephone.
.S6751 — 59— pt. 40 23
16814 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
I have read the foregoing statement and to the best of my recollection and
believe, the facts contained herein are true.
(Signed) Frank Rabinow.
Sworn to before me this 14th day of October 1958.
(Signed) Sol Javors,
Notary PuUic, State of New York, No. 30-7017400, Qualified in Nassau
County.
Commission expires March 30, 1960.
Witness :
Det. Cyril T. Jordan,
No. 111,2, C.I.S.
Mr. Kennedy. May we have this made an exhibit, too, Mr. Chair-
man?
Mr. May can identify it. This is a request to have a local charter
granted.
The Chairman, May I present to you a letter, Mr. May.
You have been previously sworn. I ask you to examine the let-
ter and state if you identify it.
Mr. May. Yes, Senator. This is apparently a request for a char-
ter from a person by the name of Al Gallo. We received this orig-
inal letter from Mr. Charles Wapner, who was administrator of the
welfare fund for Local 12, Federated Service Workers Union.
The Chairman. The letter may be made exhibit No. 27.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 27" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know anything about the operation of
these locals after you granted the charters, Mr. Javors ?
Mr. Javors. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever look to find out if they had contracts
or anything?
Mr. Javors. No. Each local was supposed to function autono-
mously. The only purpose of the Federated, the international, was
to step in should there be any complaints about any improper or il-
legal functions of any of the locals. So we had nothing whatever to
do with the running of each particular local.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Amalfitano actually ran this miion, did he not,
for all practical purposes ?
Mr. Javors. Well, if we consider that the only successful local in
my opinion was local 12, which Mr. Amalfitano ran, then your state-
ment is certainly an accurate one.
Mr, Kennedy. I am talking about the operations of the inter-
national. This was really Mr. Amalfitano's operation, because you
were granting charters at his suggestion.
Mr. Javors. Generally a charter would be granted at his sug-
gestion, yes, and your statement is accurate.
Mr. Kennedy. For instance, we have found, just from an examina-
tion, from looking at the contracts of local 21 of your union with
Roeder Auto Body Co., Inc., of Brooklyn, N.Y., an examination of
the contract reveals that there is no provision for wages at all, and
that many of the other important paragraphs in a contract, important
clauses in the contract are left in blank.
Mr. Javors. I would know nothing whatever of that. That wasn't
my function.
Mr. Kennedy. You just signed the charters?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16815
Mr. Javors. Apparently.
The Chairman. I hand you what purports to be an original letter,
handwritten, addressed to you, or addressed to the Federated Serv-
ices Workers Union, dated October 16, 1957.
I will ask you to examine it and state if you identify it.
{Document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Javors. Yes. This was the letter received by Federated re-
questing a charter be granted to what is now local 19.
The Chairman. To what is now local 19 ?
Mr. Javors. That is correct.
The Chairman. That letter may be made exhibit No. 28.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 28" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. From your personal experiences in this field, do you
see that one individual can own an international union and then grant
local charters out as the system is at the present time ?
Mr. Javors. As the system is at the present time, apparently it can
be done. I feel it is improper. I feel that certainly it gives too much
responsibility to an individual who might well abuse that responsi-
bility.
The Chairman. In other words, we need some legislation to make
it impossible for this practice to be engaged in ?
Mr. Javors. I would be wholehearted!}^ in favor of such legislation.
The Chairman. Mr. Javors, I think you are to be commended for
coming here and telling the truth about the operation. In retrospect,
as you say, you realize now it should not have been handled in that
way.
Mr. Javors. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You probably were motivated by a desire to really
be helpful to working people. But it clearly demonstrates again
and again that the power that is reposed in labor organizations is a
power that must be controlled and restricted.
Mr. Javors. I agree.
The Chairman. Senator Church, do you have any questions ?
Senator Church. No, Mr. Chairman, I do not have any questions.
I join with you in expressing my appreciation to the witness. It is
in this way that we ascertain what would be appropriate in the way
of new legislation.
Your testimony has been very helpful.
Mr. Javors. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
The committee will stand in recess until next Tuesday morning at
10 :30 o'clock.
(Members of the select committee present at the taking of the recess
were Senators McClellan and Church.)
(Whereupon, at 4 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at
10 :30 a.m., Tuesday, February 17, 1959.)
INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 1959
United States Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities
IN THE Labor or Management Field,
Washington, D.C.
The select committee met at 10:30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 44, agreed to February 2, 1959, in the caucus room. Senate Office
Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com-
mittee), presiding.
Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Sen-
ator Sam J. Ervin, Jr., Democrat, North Carolina; Senator Barry
Goldwater, Republican, Arizona; Senator Homer E. Capehart, Re-
publican, Indiana.
Also present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; John P. Con-
standy, assistant counsel; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel;
Walter R. May, investigator ; Sherman S. Willse, investigator; Walter
De Vaughn, investigator; James P. Kelly, investigator; Ruth Y.
Watt, chief clerk.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
(Members of the select committee present at time of reconven-
ing: Senators McClellan and Capehart.)
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, the next witness is Mr. Sidney Saul,
from Brooklyn, N.Y.
The Chairman. Come forward, please. Be sworn.
You do solemnly swear the e\ddence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Saul. I do.
TESTIMONY OF SIDNEY SATJL
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Saul. Sidney Saul, Brooklyn, N.Y. I am a salesman.
The Chairman. You waive counsel ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might say before I begin the ques-
tioning of this witness that in this phase of our investigation we have
had tremendous help and assistance from the district attorney in
16817
16818 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Brooklyn, and without that help and assistance we would not have
this witness today, nor be able to develop some further facts in con-
nection with him.
During the whole of this investigation into the coin-machine busi-
ness, they have rendered great assistance to the committee as, of course,
the district attorney in Manhattan, Mr. Hogan, as well as the com-
missioner of police, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Saul, you were a partner in a television and appliance business ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Some time ago ; is that right ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And the business was not successful and you were
looking around for another business ; is that right ?
Mr. Saul. Yes ; I was.
Mr. Kennedy. This would be in 1954 or so?
Mr. Saul. About that time.
Mr. Kennedy. You had a relative, Mr. Sanford Warner, who was
headof AAMONY?
Mr. Saul. Well, he was a relative through marriage.
Mr. Kennedy. He was head of the amusement game jukebox asso-
ciation— just the game association ?
Mr. Saul. Not at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. He was a game and jukebox operator at that time?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And subsequently became head of the game asso-
ciation ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he suggest that you go into this business, the
game and jukebox business ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And eventually, in March of 1956, you did ; is that
right?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you obtained a route of some 22 machines ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that game machines or jukebox machines?
Mr. Saul. Both.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you buy those ?
The Chairman. Did you buy that route ?
Mr. Saul. Yes ; I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you a member of any union then ?
Mr. Saul. I then became a member, automatically became a mem-
ber, of the union that was associated with the machine operators
association.
Mr. Kennedy. That was local 1690 of the Retail Clerks; is that
right?
Mr. Saul. I don't remember the number.
Mr. Kennedy. When you came into the association, you automati-
cally became a member of this union ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The record has shown, Mr. Chairman, that is was
local 1690.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16819
But you didn't know anything about its operation ?
Mr. Saul. No, sir.
The Chairmax. Did you know you were becoming a member of a
union when you bought this game route?
Mr. Saul. I did, sir.
The Chairman. You knew when you bought it that you automati-
cally became a member of the local union ?
Mr. Saul. Yes,
The Chairmax. You don't remember its number ?
Mr. Saul. I don't believe it was 1690.
Mr. Kennedy. It might have been 433, then ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. 1690 was the jukeboxes and 433 was the game.
Mr. Saul, Yes, that is right ; 433.
The Chairman. You know you became a member of some union, but
you don't know which it was ?
Mr. Saul. It was 433.
Mr. Kennedy. That was the game imion ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. A\Tien you joined the jukebox association, didn't you
also belong to the jukebox local?
Mr. Saul. I joined myself.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you join it yourself ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. 'What local was that ?
Mr. Saul. 1690.
Mr. Kennedy. Subsequently you joined that ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
The Chairjman. Did that make you a member of both locals ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. In other words, to operate a game machine you had
to belong to 433?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And to operate jukeboxes you had to belong to
1690?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman, And 1690 was the Clerks' union ?
Mr, Saul, Yes, sir.
The Chairman. IVhat was 433 ?
Mr. Saul. That was a Retail Clerks Union, too, I believe.
The Chairman. Both of them were Retail Clerks ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
The Chairman. I don't know why you would have to belong to two
locals.
Mr. Saul. Well, one worked with the game machines and the other
one consisted mainly of jukeboxes.
The Chairman. So you had to belong to two different locals; pay
two different sets of dues ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. Did you say you had to belong ? Wliat do you
mean by that ?
Mr. Saul. No ; I don't believe I had to belong.
Senator Capehart. Did you join of your own volition ?
16820 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Saul. Yes, I did.
Senator Capehart. No one forced you to join ?
Mr. Saul. No.
Senator Capehart. They did not ?
Mr, Saul. No, sir.
Senator Capehart. Were you the owner of the business ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, I was.
Senator Capehart. What do you mean, then you did join? What
do you mean, as owner of the business? Did you join the union as an
owner of the business or do you mean your employees joined the union ?
Mr. Saul. As owner and operator. I operated my own business.
Senator Capehart. You did all the work ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. Therefore, you were the owner and the work-
man?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. And as the owner and workman, you became a
member of this union ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. But they did not force you to become a
member ?
Mr. Saul. Well, if I remember correctly — it is a little hazy in my
mind — I think 433 automatically sent me a bill, a statement, for
union dues. The other union I joined on my own free will.
Senator Capehart. Could you have operated these machines if you
hadn't joined the union ?
Mr. Saul. I don't believe I could have.
Mr. Kennedy. In May of 1957 you received a service call from
one of your locations ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. A restaurant called the Wagon Wheel ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. At 6610 14th Avenue, Brooklyn, N.Y. : is that
right?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You referred the call to vour freelance serviceman
at that time?
Mr. Saul. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Later that day you called at the Wagon Wheel ; is
that right ? You called there, yourself ?
Mr. Saul. I called on the phone.
Mr. Kennedy. You called on the phone and you spoke to tlie
serviceman ?
Mr. Saul. The serviceman was there at the time.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the one you had sent over?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Would von relate to the committee what happened
after that?
Mr. Saul. Well, the serviceman said it wasn't an actual service call,
that somebody had deliberately broken the glass of the jukebox,
thinking that I would be there to service the machine. They wanted
to see me. So he said the party that did it or said he had done it
was in the store at the time.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16821
He put him on the telephone to speak to me. He said he wanted
to see me. I asked who I was talking to, and he wouldn't give me
his name. So I said, "Well, I don't know who you are. I certainly
am not going to come down and see you,"
At that time he gave the excuse that he was the brother of the
owner of the luncheonette, and that if I didn't come down, he would
smash the macliine and see that it was thrown out into the street.
So I made an appointment to see him that evening. I came at the
appointed time and when I got to the location there was somebody
waiting in a car in front of the location for me, and beckoned to me
to come to the car. I w^ent to the car and he asked me to sit down.
He asked me if I was Sid, and whether I owned the machine in tliat
location. I said I did.
The Chairman. Is this the same place where the machine was broken
that morning?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chaieman. And the same place where you had sent your
serviceman ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The same location from which you got the call
from the man at the time you made the appointment ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Saul. He said he wanted to take me someplace and talk to
somebody. I didn't want to leave my car at that location at that
time and come back there, so I suggested that I follow him in my car.
He said, "No, if you don't want to leave your car here, I will go in
your car and tell you where to go."
So he got into my car and started directing me where we were
headed for. During the trip he asked me how I got the location. At
that time, I believe the location — I may have been operating a ma-
chine at that location about 2l^ years.
The Chairman. You had had that location for 21^ years at the
time this incident occurred ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
The Chairman. And this man was asking you how did you get the
location ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Saul. I told him how I came to that location. He went on to
say that the location belonged to him.
The Chairman. It belonged to him ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is, you had had it 2i/^ years and he had made
no claim to it prior to that ?
Mr. Saul. That is right. Then his conversation went off the regu-
lar path, and he kept threatening me all the way down to where we
were going.
The Chairman. Threatening you how ?
Mr. Saul. That he woud kill me. And they would find my body
lying oil' the Belt Parkway.
The Chairman. What did he want? What was he wanting?
16822 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Saul. He didn't make sense in his conversation as to what he
actually wanted. I was trying to read between the lines and pacify
him.
Mr. Kennedy, "What is the Belt Parkway ?
Mr. Saul. Well, that is a parkway used for the purpose of auto-
mobile transportation along the shore end of Brooklyn, and very
seldom used for pedestrian walk at all.
Mr. Kennedy. He told you at that time they would find your body
there?
Mr. Saul. Yes, he did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he relate this a number of different times ?
Mr. Saul. Well, he repeated that about five or six times.
Mr. Kennedy. That he was going to kill you ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who he is ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr, Kennedy. What is his name ?
Mr. Saul. I didn't know his name at the time, but I know now that
his name is Ernest Filocomo.
The Chairman. Would you recognize a picture of him?
I hand you a picture and ask you to state if you identify the person
in the picture.
(The photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr, Saul. Yes ; that is the man.
The Chairman, That is the fellow you have been talking about ?
Mr. Saul. Yes,
The Chairman, That you met there and had the appointment with
and who drove you around and threatened to kill you ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
The Chairman. That picture may be made exhibit No. 29,
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No, 29" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Filocomo is known as Ernest
Kippy.
The Chairman. Do you know him by that name, by the name of
Kippy?
Mr, Saul. Well, when I asked his name he said his name was Kip.
Mr. Kennedy, He has seven arrests and five convictions. He has
been convicted for unlawful entry, convicted for burglary.
The Chairman, Do we have a police record ?
Mr, Kennedy. Yes. And disorderly conduct.
The Chairman. Wlio obtained it? Let it be sworn to and placed
in the record.
Have you been previously sworn in this proceeding ?
Mr, CoRRiGAN. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH CORRIGAN— Resumed
The Chairman. Do you have the police record of this man ?
Mr, CoRRiGAN, Yes, sir. This is a New York City Police Depart-
ment record of one Ernest Filocomo, alias Ernie Kippy. The record
shows
The Chairman. You procured it from the police department ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16823
Mr. CoRRiGAN. I did, sir.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 29A.
Mr. Kennedy. I would just like to get it summarized.
The Chairman. You can summarize it. It has been made an ex-
hibit.
(Document referred to marked "Exhibit No. 29 A" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. CoRRiGAN. The record shows some seven arrests with five con-
victions. The convictions are for unlawful entry, for burglary, dis-
orderly conduct, assault, and for policy.
Mr. Kennedy. And he spent some time in Sing Sing for the assault,
did he?
Mr. CoRRiGAN. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Sentenced in 1944 for 4 to 5 years in Sing Sing. Is
that correct ?
Mr. Corrigan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did Mr. Filocomo direct you to drive?
Mr. Saul. We finally ended up in a luncheonette on Church Avenue
near McDonald Avenue in Brooklyn, called Jackie's.
Mr. Kennedy. Jackie's ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who owned Jackie's restaurant?
Mr. Saul. No, I didn't know who owned it.
Mr. Kennedy. Relate what happened.
]\Ir. Saul. Well, we went into Jackie 's restaurant and he introduced
me to a man called Larry Gallo.
Mr. Kennedy. G-a-1-l-o?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who Larry Gallo was ?
Mr. Saul. No. I never met him before.
And Mr. Gallo invited me to sit down and have a cup of coffee with
him. Filocomo sat down next to us. Mr. Gallo asked me how I got
that location. I told him the same story. He said that the location
had belonged to him. I told him that I didn't know anything about it
and that I had come about tlie location in an honest manner, that we
had purchased the location from the owner of the luncheonette. We
had a contract with him and there weren't any problems at all.
Then jNIr. Gallo asked me how many machines I had. I told him I
had eight machines.
The Chairman. You only had eight at that time ?
Mr. Saul. Yes. That is what I told Mr. Gallo.
The Chairman. That is what you told liim ?
Mr. Saul. That is what I told him.
Mr. Gallo suggested that he had the same amount of machines that
I had, that we become partners, and that I would operate the route.
I told Mr. Gallo that I had a very bad taste about the business, I didn't
care for it, and was anxious to get out of it. I had been in it more or
less to pay off some debts because of a previous business loss, and that I
was trying to straighten myself out and get out of that business.
Mr. Gallo said that if I were to become partners with him that he
would have nothing to do with it, that I would operate the business
myself, and that he would get me locations.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he say how he w\as going to get locations ?
16824 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Saul. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he indicate that there was going to be a lot of
money in it for you ?
Mr. Saul. Well, he said I would be well off if I went with him.
Mr. Kennedy. What was Kip doing during this period of time ?
Mr. Saul. During the conversation a few times Kip started threat-
ening me again, and finally Mr. Gallo sent him out.
Mr. Ejennedy. Again, that he was going to kill you ?
Mr. Saul. Well, he said — he didn't actually say that he would kill
me in the restaurant, but he said they would find my body off the
Belt Parkway, which was practically the same thing. He kept saying
that for everyone like him that was arrested, or that was found, there
would be 100 more like him.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you mean if you turned him in ?
Mr. Saul. If I turned him in, there would be 100 more like him that
would take his place.
Mr. Kennedy. That would get you if you turned his name over to
anyone ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Finally Gallo sent him away ; is that right ?
Mr. Saul. Gallo sent him out, yes.
Mr. KJENNEDY. What finally happened between you and Gallo?
What did you finally decide to do?
Mr. Saul. Well, I believe Mr. Gallo thought I was sincere about
what I said, and he gave me his card and said that if at any time I
decided I wanted to go further into the business, he would be happy
to go into further discussion about it.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he introduce you to another man and say that
he had set him up in business ?
Mr. Saul. Yes ; he did.
Mr. Kennedy. That was before you left the restaurant ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He gave you a card, did he, before you left ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What did the card say ?
Mr. Saul. Well, actually he marked his name on the back of the
card and his telephone number.
Mr. Kennedy. What did the front of the card say ?
Mr. Saul. I believe it had to do with some kind of a laundry workers
union, or cafeteria workers.
Mr. Kennedy. Local 26 of the Cafeteria Workers ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Local 26, Cafeteria Workers Union, FSWU, Fed-
erated Service Workers Union ?
Mr. Saul. Yes ; that was the card.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know what connection Gallo had with this
union ?
Mr. Saul. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he speak to you at all about the union at that
time ?
Mr. Saul. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You left the restaurant. Then in October 1957 did
you receive another call ?
IMPROPER ACTI\1TIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16825
Mr. Saul. Yes. I received a call to call Wagon Wheels.
Mr. Kennedy. The same place ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Go ahead.
Mr. Saut.. I called Wa.ffon Wheels and they told me that Kip wanted
to talk to me. So I said I would be down at my convenience within
the next few days.
When I came there somebody went out to get this fellow Kip.
I waited a few minutes and Kip came walking in. Kip asked me
to do him a favor. This time he was very friendly.
He asked me to do him a favor. He wanted me to sign with his
union, which was a union for jukeboxes. I told Kip at the time that
I only had one jukebox and I couldn't be of any value to him. He
said it didn't matter, but I would be helping him a great deal.
He said that I should go to Jackie's Luncheonette and see Mr. Gallo,
and Mr. Gallo would have the forms for me to sign.
Mr. Kennedy. What union did he say this was ?
Mr. Saul. When I asked him he said it was local 19.
Mr. Kennedy. And he said that it would be a big help to them if
you would join the union?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you tell him that you were already in a union ?
Mr. Saul. Yes; I did.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he say about that ?
Mr. Saui.. He said it didn't matter.
Mr. Kennedy. And he suggested you go back to the restaurant
where vou had gone originally and meet Mr. Gallo and sign up with
local 19?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand that the Gallos at that time
owned local 19 ?
Mr. Saut.. Well, I hadn't never heard of it before; I knew nothing
about it. That is, when I say I hadn't heard about it, I hadn't heard
about Mr. Gallo being associated with local 19, But I did rear rumors
that local 19 was trying to get in, and it was a problem union.
Mr. Kennedy. So what did you do then ? Did you tell him that you
would ?
Mr. Saul. I told him that I would, at my convenience I would go to
Jackie's Luncheonette and sign up.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever go down there ?
Mr. Saul. No, sir ; I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. On December 19, you just left the restaurant and they
allowed you to leave peacefully ?
Mr. Saul. I think you have your dates wrong.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, in October when you went down and met with
Kip and had this conversation about the local union. You left
Mr. Saul. On a friendly basis.
Mr. Kennedy. Then on December 19, 1957, you were having dinner
at home that evening, on or about December 19 ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. That is when you received a telephone call ?
Mr. Saul. I received a telephone call while I was in the midst of
my dinner, and when I answered the phone, the voice at the other
16826 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
end questioned me as to whether I was the "Sid" that had the jukebox
in the Wagon Wheels. I said I was, and he said he wanted to see
me right away, at Wagon Wlieels. I said I couldn't readily do that, I
was having my dinner, and I questioned as to whom I was speaking to.
He said it didn't matter who I was speaking to, and that he wanted
to see me.
I said, "If I didn't know who I am talking to, I am not going to come
down."
He said, "Unless I see you here very shortly, your machine will be out
in the gutter," practically the same threat I had the last time, that my
machine would be out in the gutter and smashed to bits, beyond use.
I thought it best that I go down to see him, and I arranged an ap-
pointment for about 8 o'clock that evening.
Then I went to the Wagon Wheels.
Mr. Kennedy. Before you arrived there, did you take some steps
to protect yourself ?
Mr. Saut^. Yes. I was kind of worried about going there, from the
conversation by the party at the other end of the wire, so I called my
service telephone number and told the operator that I was going in to
meet somebody that I did not know and I didn't like the sound of it,
and if everything was all right I would call her back within a half
hour, and if I didn't call her back within a half hour for her to notify
the local police that something was wrong.
When I got to the location I was directed to the back part of the
luncheonette, which is up two short steps and which has a series of
tables in the back room. This back room is not closed, but it is all
open, the same width as the front part of the store.
I sat down at the table with two men that I had never met before.
I later found out their names.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio did you find out that they were ?
Mr. Saul. I found one was Charles Panarella and the other fellow
was Dutch Tuzio.
Mr. Kennedy. P-a-n-a-r-e-1-l-a; and the other gentleman is
T-u-z-i-o?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I hand you two photographs and ask you to exam-
ine them and state if you identify them.
(Photographs were handed to the witness.)
Mr. Saul. This is Charles Panarella.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 30.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 30" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Saul. And this man is Tuzio.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit 30A.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 30 A" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, do we have the criminal records of
these men?
Mr. Kennedy. We do.
The Chairman. Did you procure those criminal records from the
New York Police Department?
Mr. CoRRiGAN. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. They may be made exhibit 30A1 and 2. Keep them
identified with the pictures and photographs.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16827
(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits Nos. 30A1 and 30A2"
for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennp:dy. Could I summarize this ?
The Chairman. You may summarize them because they have been
made exhibits.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Charles Panarella, alias Len Conforti, has been
arrested ei^ht times and convicted five times. He has been convicted
for assault; grand larceny with an auto; burglary, for which he re-
ceived 5 to 10 years in Sing Sing; violation of his parole twice; and
disorderly conduct with dice.
Mr. Anthony "Dutch'' Tuzio has been arrested seven times, has
three convictions. He has been convicted of })urglary twice, and he
has been convicted once for murder, for which lie received a sentence
in 1934 of 20 years to life, plus 5 to 10 years additional for being
armed. In 1957 the original sentence was vacated and he was then
sentenced for manslaughter in the fii'st degree and received a 15- to
22-year sentence. As his time expired, he was freed at that time,
1957, just prior to his meeting with this gentleman.
The Chairman. In other words, he was just out of the penitentiary
at the time this interview with you took place?
Mr. Saul. I didn't know the man at all, sir.
The Chairman. You didn't know him ; he was a stranger ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He had just been out of Sing Sing for a conviction
of murder which in 1947 was lowered to manslaughter in the first de-
gree.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate the conversation, please, that you
had with this gentleman ?
]Mr. Saul. Well, when I sat down at the table, this Panarella
started the questioning. Pie asked me how I got into the location,
approximately the same questions I was asked the last time; how
many machines I was operating, and they went into other phases,
parts of conversation, that had nothing to do with jukeboxes.
It seems as though they had tried calling my home the day before,
which was on a Sunday, and I wasn't home. They had spoken to one
of my sons. They wanted to know where I was that Sunday.
During one part of the conversation I just raised my finger and
pointed it at Panarella, unmeaningly, and with that he took an open
hand and just slapped me across the jaw.
I am jumping ahead of myself.
There was about 25 minutes wasted with very little conversation
prior to that, so I excused myself and went to the telephone to call
my service operator, telling her that it seemed like there was nothing
wrong, that the fellows just wanted to ask me some questions and for
her to forget the instructions I had given her prior to my arriving at
this luncheonette.
Then when I came back I wasn't sitting more than about 2 or 3 min-
utes when Panarella just slapped me across the face, but pretty hard.
At that time he said — he made the same type of an offer that JNIr.
Gallo made, that he would put up an equal amount of equipment for
us to become partners, and tliat I would do the operating of it and
we would 2:0 further into this business.
16828 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
I told him the same thing about having a distaste for the business.
Then he wanted to know what I was going to do for him in that par-
ticular location that we were at.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ask you first how many machines you had?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. A'\^iat did you tell him ?
Mr. Saul. I told him three.
Mr. Kennedy. ^Vliat did he say then ?
Mr. Saul. He said, "I thought you had eight."
Mr. Kennedy. The only place he could have gotten that conver-
sation was from your conversation Avith Mr. Gallo, originally, or with
Kippy ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. How many machines did you actually have ?
Mr. Kennedy. I think he would rather leave that. He had more
than that.
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. "Wliy did you tell them you only had three or
only had eight ?
Mr. Saul. Well, I didn't want to get involved with him. I thought
it would discourage his conversation.
Mr, Kennedy. Would you continue ?
Mr. Saul. Then he wanted to know what I was going to do for
him that location where I had the jukebox. When he said that, I
really didn't know what he meant, as to what I was going to do for
him. He said, well, the location belonged to him, and he wanted
to be a partner in it.
I said I wasn't looking for any partners, I was going to get out of
the business completely, just within the next 2 or 3 months I would
be out of it.
He excused himself for a minute and walked away from the table.
At that time I was left with Tuzio.
Tuzio started questioning me about Smiday again, why I wasn't
home. He seemed to doubt me, and I didn't think it had any impor-
tance in the conversation at all.
Then Panarella came back.
Originally Panarella sat directly in front of me. I was sitting
along right next to the wall, and there was an empty seat on my left.
Panarella sat in front of me and Tuzio sat on the other side, too.
But before Panarella came back, Tuzio came and sat next to me
and Panarella sat down in the other seat where Tuzio sat before.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat had he done when he was away, when he
walked away ?
Mr. Saul. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. Had the jukebox been put on?
Mr. Saul. No. He didn't put the jukebox on.
Then they started asking me for $500. I don't know why thev
wanted $500, but that is what they wanted, $500. I told them t
didn't have that kind of money to give them, and they kept question-
ing me as to what I was going to do for them on the jukebox ; that
they wanted to be a partner in this particular location.
With that, this Filocomo walked into the store.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16829
Mr. Kennedy. This is Kippy?
Mr. Saul. Kippy.
The Chairman. That made the third one present?
Mr. Saul. That made the third one present, yes. He walked right
over to the table and he said, "I didn't know you knew these fellows."
So I said, "I didn't know them. I just met them."
The Chairman. Do you mean you didn't recognize him imme-
diately ?
Mr. Saul. No. Kip said to me that he didn't know I knew Pana-
rella and Tuzio. I told him I didn't know them, that I just met
them. Tuzio went over and put a coin in the jukebox, came right
back and pushed his chair back, instead of sitting in line with me
Mr. Kennedy. I am sorry to interrupt you, but didn't Kip men-
tion the union at that time?
Mr. Saul. Yes. Kip said to me, "You never signed up with 19,
did you?"
I said no, that I hadn't had a chance to go to this luncheonette.
Mr. Kennedy. It was then that they went over and put a coin in
the jukebox ?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Then he came back ?
Mr. Saul. Tuzio went and put a coin in the jukebox. He came
back and pushed his chair back. With that, Kip took his coat off — he
was wearing a short jacket — and before I had a chance to say any-
thing, he started punching into me.
(At this point Senator Ervin entered the hearing room.)
The Chairman. Started punching you where?
Mr. Saul. Aroimd my face and head.
The Chairman. Was that with his fist ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir. I started pleading with them, and it didn't
seem to have any effect. The only remark was that I was an excel-
lent actor. They kept saying to each other, "This felloAv is an actor,"
because I was pleading with them to stop beating me.
He kept pounding away at my head and face and it got to a point
where I was just barely able to keep my head up. Every time I
started to plead, Panarella would lift a napkin holcler, a commercial-
type napkin holder used in luncheonettes, with the open face on both
sides, about ten inches high — he lifted it in his hand and said he
would bash my skull in if I said anything else.
He kept pounding away and Tuzio kept saying, "If you haven't
got $500, give them $300. It is cheaper than buying a new set of
teeth" — that it would cost me more for a new set of teeth than $500.
I kept pleading to stop beating me, and Kip just didn't let up.
(Members of the select committee present at this point in the pro-
ceedings were Senatoi-s McClellan, Ervin, and Capehart.)
The Chairman. Thev were beating vou then ostensibly to try to
make you pay off, $500 or $300 ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is what they were demanding while they were
beating you ?
Mr. Saul. And they wanted to be a partner in the machine at the
location.
36751— 59— pt. 46 24
16830 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. They wanted that too, but as I understood, they
kept saying that you should pay off $500, or if you can't give $500, give
$300?
Mr. Saul. Yes.
The Chairman. What was that payoff for ?
Mr. Saul. Well, they claimed the location belonged to them.
The Chairman. They claimed the location belonged to them and
if you wanted to get along with them you had to pay off ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I see. All right.
Mr. Saul. Finally, I was bleeding profusely from the right nostril
and my mouth, and he stopped punching me.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you losing consciousness ?
Mr. Saul. I sort of felt I was losing consciousness and I was
slumping over the table, yes. With that Panarella ordered some
coffee brought to the table. So I wiped the blood from my face and
I had the coffee and just barely got through with the coffee
Mr. Kennedy. Did one of them bring you a wet towel ?
Mr. Saul. Not then. I just sort of got through with the coffee,
and I wasn't even finislied when lie started asking for the $500 again.
Before I had a chance to look up, Kip was back at me and this time
it was really heavy, mucli heavier than he was before. I didn't know
what to say, and I didn't cry, and I just went along and pleaded witli
them, and I kept pleading with them to stop beating me. This time
I was bleeding from both nostrils and my mouth, and I felt myself
going to a subconscious mind. Just as my head was slumping over, I
could hear everything that was going on, and this Panarella said to
Kip to stop, but Kip didn't stop.
He was like a wild man, and he just kept punching away at me,
and finally he jumped up from the table and he yelled something to
him, "Lascialo," which I later found out meant to stop in Italian, and
with that Kip took his jacket and walked out.
Then Panarella ordered some more coffee. At this stage of the
game my mouth felt like it was full of sand and I was all full of
blood, and Panarella reached over and he straightened my tie. He
called for a wet towel, or he got up. He called for one and then he
helped wipe the blood off my face.
Mr, Kennedy. Was the blood coming out your ears also by this
time ?
INIr. Saul. Yes, sir; and I couldn't open my mouth at all, and my
jaws felt as though they were locked at the end, and I could barely
talk and barely say anything. Then he started the conversation
again that he wanted to be a partner on the jukebox. Finally, out of
desperation I said I would take them in as a partner.
So he said, "Well, I don't want a third of this; I want Paul, the
owner of the luncheonette, to have his 50-percent share, but I want
to be a partner in your share."
In other words, I was to get 25 percent of the income instead of 50
percent.
I finally agreed to that, and he gave me instructions to leave the
money in an envelope, or in a paper bag for him with the owner of
the luncheonette.
Before I left he said that if he found out that I had more machines
iliiin the three I said I had, there would be trouble.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD 16831
He also said that I sliouldn't make any attempt at taking that juke-
box out of that location. He made a statement that if I went to the
district attorney, I would be sorry.
With that I went to the mirror to fix myself, and fixed my shirt,
and my face, and washed my face, and my nose was completely out
of shape, and it was formed like a horseshoe, like a U, and, as a matter
of fact, it is out of shape now because of that. But it was like a
complete U, just this way.
I left them and I went to my family doctor, and he wasn't in and I
then went home; and when I came into my home, my wife realized
there was something wrong just by looking at me, and I barely made
the chair. My nerves seemed to react more so then than at the time of
the beating, and she didn't want me to go any further without seeing a
doctor, and so she called a doctor that was used by somebody in the
family, just about two blocks from where I live.
We went there, and he sent me to the hospital the next morning,
but there were no fractures of any kind. My eye was all closed, com-
pletely closed, and my nose was out of shape, and I couldn't chew food
for almost 3 weeks. While I was in bed, about 2 days later, I called
my truckman and asked him to go to that location and take the
machine out.
He called me that morning, and his conversation was something
like this
The Chairman. Wlio called you ?
Mr. Saul. My truckman, and he said, "Sid, do you have a part-
ner?" And I said, "No."
He said, "Well, these people won't let the machine go out. They
say you have a partner named. Charlie and Charlie said that machine
doesn't go out, it stays here."
So I tried to speak to the owner, and the owner said he is not letting
that machine out, he had instructions from Charlie that it belongs
to him, and the machine doesn't go out of the location.
With that I called the attorney for the Game Association, Mr.
Blatt, and Mr. Blatt said if I would meet him the next day he would
get the machine for me.
When I met Mr. Blatt the next morning, he took me up to the dis-
trict attorney's office.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been vmder the protection of the district
attorney's office since that time ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
ISIr. Kennedy. You have had a police guard since that time ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might say that the three men rhat
participated in the beating according to the testimony of the witness,
were invited to appear before the committee and told that this testi-
mony would be developed, and we never heard from them again. We
did not subpena them to appear because they are under indictment
through the efforts of the district attorney in Brooklyn, and they
are going to go to trial. There was one trial which, as I understand,
resulted in a hung jury of 11 to 1, and these three gentlemen are
going to be retried by the district attorney in Brooklyn.
The Chairman. It is on these identical charges, or for this of-
fense that you have related here ?
16832 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. They are under indictment for that now?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
The Chairman. They have been tried one time and they had a
hung jury, and you are still under the protection of the district attor-
ney's office?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Were you ever warned not to go ahead with the
trial other than by the people that you have related ?
Mr. Saul. Well, I had a telephone call right after I had gone to
the district attorney's office.
The Chairman. '\'\nien was that ?
Mr. Saul. When I went to the district attorney's office. It was a
few weeks later, I had a telephone call from this Sanford Warner
and he said he was sitting at the union meeting with somebody, and
they said if anything comes out of this trial, or if anybody gets hurt,
I would be in a bad position.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the president of the Game Association ; is that
right ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the gentleman that you mentioned earlier in
your testimony ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And he told you if somebody got hurt through your
testimony, you in turn would be hurt ?
Mr. Saul. He said somebody had told him this.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever relate to you who had given him that
warning ?
Mr. Saul. Well, he mentioned a last name, and I don't know the first
name. The last name was Jacobs.
Mr. Kennedy. We have had testimony about two Jacobs, the Jacob
brothers, Mr. Chairman.
Did you have any further conversation with Mr. Warner about the
Gallos?
Mr. Saul. Well, I had conversation with him recently.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate that ?
Mr. Saul. Yes. On Thursday in the World-Telegram there was
some story about a mystery witness going to Washington to appear at
this hearing. From the story, he thought it was me. So he called me
on the telephone and questioned me. Then he went on to say that he
got himself mixed up in this deal and that he wanted to pull out, and
he had offered his i-esignation at one time, but they wouldn't accept it.
Mr. Kennedy. They wouldn't let him resign ?
Mr. Saul. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he describe these people at all, or say anything
about them ?
Mr. Saul. He just said that he had been instrumental in bringing
them into the union, or something to that effect, and I didn't know what
it was. I understood it to be the union, but I didn't go into detail with
him. He said ho had been instrumental in bringing them in, and he
was sorry.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, they wouldn't let him resign even as president
of the association ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16833
Mr. Saul. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he describe them as bad people, or say anything
about that, or indicate that ?
Mr. Saul. Well, he said they were bad boys.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you understand it was the Gallo union, or the
Gallos, or did he mention the Gallos to you in the conversation ?
Mr. Saul. Well, he mentioned their name, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. The Gallos ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And it was their union, was it not ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Is that local 19 that you are speaking of ?
Mr. Saul. He didn't mention any local number.
Mr. Kennedy. It is Larry and Joseph Gallo who originally were
behind local 19, according to the testimony that we have heard, and
since then they have supported local 266 of the Teamsters.
Senator Capeiiakt. As to these three gentlemen that beat you up in
this restaurant ; what was the name of the restaurant '?
Mr. Saul. The Wagon Wheels.
Senator Capehart. Was that out in the open where customers of
the restaurant could see it ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. And the proprietor of the restaurant, was he
there?
Mr. Saul. His wife was there, and she was behind the counter.
Senator Capehart. Were there cooks there ?
Mr. Saul. There are no cooks ; she did the cooking.
Senator Capehart. Was there anybody in the restaurant at the
time?
Mr. Saul. Actually, it wasn't a restaurant, it is a form of candy
store and hmcheonette kind of business, and the front part had a
soda fomitain.
Senator Capehart. What time of day was it?
Mr. Saul. This was between 8 :15 and 9 :15 p.m.
Senator Capehart. In the evening?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. Did it create a lot of excitement aroimd there ?
Mr. Saul. It didn't create any excitement at all; it was just as
though there was nobody there. There were a lot of people there at
the time.
Senator Capehart. In other words, the proprietor and his wife.
And were there any customers in the place ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. And they just paid no attention to the fact that
they were beating you ?
Mr. Saul. They paid no attention at all.
Senator Capehart. Were they able to see you being beaten?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Capehart. They paid no attention to it at all?
Mr. Saul. That is right.
Senator Capehart. ^Vhat was the purpose? lATiat were these
gentlemen trying to do? Were these members of the miion or were
they bona fide members or officers of this union ?
16834 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Saul. I didn't know, and I didn't know anything at all. I
didn't know what they were trying to do until he later said that the
location belonged to him.
Senator Capehart. You do not know whether they were bona fide
members of the union or not.
Mr. Saul. No, sir. The only connection of any union was when
Kip asked me to sign with local 19, and otherwise I had no other
thoughts about it.
Senator Capehart. Were you under the impression there was sonie
union connection with this beating of you, or was it simply inci-
dental or unrelated to union activity ?
Mr. Saul. Well, sir, I still don't know what the actual thinking was
behind it, whether it was the fact that they wanted to become partners.
Senator Capehart. Are you still in the business ?
Mr. Kennedy says you don't want to go into these things. Would
you tell me why you don't want to go into them ? I mean aren't we
here to bring out the facts ?
Mr. Kennedy. You bring them out, Senator.
Senator Capehart. If there is good reason for not inquiring into
these facts, I don't want to do it. However, I would appreciate very
much an explanation from the chairman.
The Chairaian. Sometimes in dealing with thugs, you give them
some information, and otherwise these people, some of them are
actually afraid of their lives. They are cooperating with us, and
we don't want to go into it too far to the detriment of our cause.
Ordinarily I want to get everything and I can appreciate here
that here is a fellow under protective care.
Senator Capehart. I was under the impression that what we wanted
was the facts, and I think that we do.
Mr. Kennedy. He will be glad to give them in executive session,
or you can ask him any questions now, but for the reason that the
chairman has explained we have a problem here before the commit-
tee. This man was badly beaten, and he has been dealing with under-
world figures. To get people to come and testify at all is most diffi-
cult. There are some things that make it even more difficult for wit-
nesses, and there is no testimony that he won't be willing to give you
at any time, but there are some things that do not play a material role
which we would rather not go into in open sessions.
The Chairman. There are some things. We can get all of it in
executive session, but we don't want it here.
Senator Capehart. Has this gentleman appeared in executive ses-
sion to date ?
Mr. Kennedy. He has talked a number of times to the membei-s of
the staif. I can give you that information, or he can appear if you
want to get that.
Senator Capehart. You understand I am new on the committee.
The Chairman. I can appreciate it, and I want to ask the same
questions.
Senator Capehart. I just thought I would bring out some facts
here. Primarily what I was trying to develop was, was there a direct
connection between this and an official union.
The Chairman. That is quite proper.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16835
Senator Capeiiart. Or was it just a couple of fellows, or three fel-
lows here that had no connection with the union, but were taking the
position that they did ?
Could you answer that ?
Mr. Saul. I couldn't honestly answer that.
The Chairman. We have other circumstantial evidence here, and
other positive proof with reference to this local 19 and local 26(5 that
has now t^iken over 19. It is now under this fellow Gallo, and he
is undertaking to take over the whole industry and the whole operation
in New York.
Is tliat not correct?
INIr. Kexxedy. Yes, local 266.
The Chairman. That is local 266, a Teamster Union, that is now
taking over 19 and some of these others, and this man Gallo, who is
the head of it, is undertaking to monopolize the whole industry in
that area.
Senator Capehart. Then you think it is a union that is trying to
monopolize the business in New York ; is that your testimony ?
The Chairman. Together in cooperation with these thugs and
gangsters, that is the way it works. These musclemen and racketeer
are using the union to force themselves into this business, just as he
told him to go down there and sign up with 19. When he didn't, he
was beaten up and threatened further.
Senator Capehart. Are you still in the business ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is the one we just went through.
Senator Capehart. What do you mean, "That is the one we just
went through" ?
Mr. Kennedy. That is the question you put to him before.
Senator Capehart. Do you mean that I should not ask the question,
whether this gentleman is still in the jukebox industry?
The Chairman. I think you have asked it, and go ahead. The point
is that we try to keep out of the record some of these things that we
know ourselves that are background inf oniiation ; it enables us to
develop these cases.
Senator Capehart. I see. I am sorry.
The Chairman. I can appreciate you haven't been on the committee
long enough to get the background. It only further endangers the
life of a witness sometimes when we do these things.
Senator Capehart. I presume that the coimsel will inform every
member of the committee in advance, of course, of the witnesses and
what you are trying to develop. They have not done that for me.
The Chairman. Insofar as we can, we do, but it is impossible to
give a complete briefing on each witness.
All right, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Senator Ervin. You had this machine at a certain location ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator ER^^N. And the demand was made that you join the union
as a prerequisite to keeping it there. In other words, you were told
that you had no right to keep it on that location, unless you joined
the union or made a payment ?
Mr. Saul. They didn't exactly say that; no, sir.
16836 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy, They told you to go down and join the union ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Ervin. They told you to go down and join the union?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Ervin. And you did not do that?
Mr. Saul. No, sir ; I didn't.
Senator Ervin. And after that you were beaten up ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
Senator Ervin. Did they tell you why you were being beaten ?
Mr. Saul. No. They didn't tell me that.
Senator Ervin. How much money was it that they suggested that
you ought to pay them ?
Mr. Saul. $500.
Senator Ervin. They told you that would be cheaper than getting
new teeth ?
Mr. Saul. A set of new teeth.
Senator Ervin. That is all.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, he is under subpena.
The Chairman. You will remain under this same subpena, subject
to being recalled. As I understand, you are still under the jurisdic-
tion of the district attorney ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You report to him, do you ?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You will continue under the jurisdiction of this
committee also, under this subpena, and be subject to being recalled
if the committee may desire to hear further testimony from you.
If you have any threats or any efforts of violence toward you or
members of your family, or anything on that order, I wish you would
report it to this committee immediately.
Mr. Saul. I will, sir.
The Chairman. We will undertake to deal with those who under-
take to obstruct the work of this committee.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Saul. Thank you.
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Lawrence and Mr. Joseph Gallo.
The Chairman. Be sworn, please.
Do you and each of you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I do.
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I do.
TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE GALLO AND JOSEPH GALLO
The Chairman. You, on my left, give your name, your address, and
your place of business or your business or occupation, please, sir.
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. Lawrence Gallo, 2031 East 67th Street,
Brooklyn, N.Y.
The Chairman. What is your business or profession, or occupation ?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16837
The Chairman. And you on my right, what is your name, your
place of residence, and your business or occupation ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. Joseph Gallo, 639 East 4th Street, Brooklyn.
The Chairman. What is your business or occupation?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I resi)ectfully decline to answer because I
h(mestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do either of you have counsel representing you?
Mr. Joseph Gaixo. No counsel.
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. No counsel.
The Chairman. You waive counsel?
Mr. Lav/rence Gallo. Yes.
Mr. Joseph Gallo. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You each waive counsel ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Josejih Gallo, could you tell us where you were
born, just a little bit about your background, before w^e get into the
union business?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate -nie.
Mr. Kennedy. Just a little bit about your background, where you
went to school. Can you tell us that ? Where did you go to school ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because 1
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us where you went to school?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Joseph Gallo, how did you happen to go into
the union business, in local 19 ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to ansAver because 1
honestlj^ believe my answer might tend to incrimmate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you feel that the workingman was having a
difficult time, that you could help and assist him ?
]\Ir. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. What was it in your background and record that
made you want to go into the union business, to try to help and assist
your fellow workingman?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. What about you, Mr. Gallo? What made you de-
cide to go into the union business ?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Did the two of you go in together ?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, could I call a witness to give a little
bit of their background ?
The Chairman. Yes, you may.
Call your witness.
Senator Capehart. May I ask one question, Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman. Yes.
16838 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD
Senator Capehart. May I have your attention? Who typed this
statement that you have been reading from? Whose language is
that?
The Chairman. Let's have order. All right.
Senator Capehart. Mr. Joseph Gallo, who typed that statement
and whose language is that ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe, you know, it might incriminate me.
The Chairman. All right ; proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Call the other witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Cy Jordan.
The Chairman. Have you been sworn, Mr. Jordan ?
Mr. Jordan. No, sir ; I haven't.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Jordan. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CYRIL T. JORDAN
The Chairman. Wliat is your name, your place of residence and
your present position of employment ?
Mr. Jordan. My name is Cyril T. Jordan. I reside in Bayside,
N. Y., and I am connected with the New York City Police Department,
assigned to the criminal intelligence squad.
The Chairman. How long have you been a member of the police
department of New York ?
Mr. Jordan. Ten years, sir.
The Chairman. How long have you been a member of the intelli-
gence squad ?
Mr. Jordan. Three years, sir.
The Chairman. All right. You may proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. You have been assigned to work with this com-
mittee, have you ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir.
Mr, Kennedy. For how long ?
Mr. Jordan. Since May of 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have some information on the background,
first, of Joey Gallo, who is also known as Joey the Blonde ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us about his career ?
The Chairman. Which one is Joey Gallo, or Joey the Blonde?
Do you recognize him ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir ; I do.
The Chairman. Which one is it ?
Mr. Jordan. The gentleman on your right.
The Chairman. The one with the dark glasses on ?
Mr. Jordan. That is right, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Jordan. Joseph Gallo, alias Joey the Blonde, is known to the
New York City Police Department under B No. 250889, FBI No.
120842-A. He is 28 years old, and has been arrested 17 times, as
follows :
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16839
Marcli 16, 1944, arrested for juvenile delinquency, age 14. He
vas placed on probation.
April 8, 1945, arrested for assault, fist; discharged.
March 1, 1947, arrested for 1897, weapons law, club and rocks;
discharged.
January 14, 1949, arrested for abduction; grand jury returned no
bill.
November 12, 1949, arrested for possession of and firing of a gun ;
discharged.
February 17, 1950, arrested for burglary and burglary tools; con-
victed, sentenced to New York Penitentiary; sentence suspended.
July 23, 1950, arrested for disorderly conduct, dice; convicted,
suspended sentence.
June 24, 1954, arrested for kidnaping and attempted sodomy ; dis-
missed.
September 19, 1954, arrested on a bench warrant for kidnaping;
acquitted.
November 23, 1954, arrested for felonious assault; convicted. This
■\\'as later reduced to a lesser crime and he was fined $5 or 3 days.
April 20, 1955, arrested for bookmaking; dismissed.
November 14, 1956, arrested as a cutter in a dice game; dismissed
on his own recognizance.
February 10, 1957, arrested for felonious assault; dismissed.
July 3, 1957, arrested for vagrancy ; disposition not shown.
February 29, 1958, arrested for vagi-ancy; disposition not shown.
June 17, 1958, arrested for vagrancy; disposition not shown.
October 23, 1958, arrested for disorderly conduct; disposition not
shown.
His former employment is a restaurant employee, a longshoreman,
and an engraver.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you tell us about Lawrence Gallo ?
Mr. Jordan. Lawrence Gallo is known to New York City Police
Department imder B No. 225659. He is 30 years of age and has been
arrested 13 times, as follows :
July 21, 1943, arrested as a juvenile delinquent; dismissed.
July 15, 1944, arrested for grand larceny and criminally receiving
stolen property ; placed on indefinite probation.
August 12, 1951, an-ested for disorderly conduct, crap game; re-
ceived a suspended sentence.
October 19, 1951, arrested for policy; $75 fine or 30 days.
March 31, 1952, arrested for criminally receiving stolen goods,
20 men's suits; sentenced to 1 year in New York City Penitentiary
on October 28, 1952.
April 15, 1952, arrested for conspiracy and policy; disposition not
known.
September 22, 1954, arrested for disorderly conduct, cards; dis-
missed.
September 19, 1954, arrested for kidnaping; acquitted.
October 23, 1954, arrested for felonious assault; convicted of a
lesser offense ; sentenced to $5 or 3 days.
16840 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
October 14, 1956, arrested as a common gambler ; dismissed on his
own recognizance.
March 28, 1958. arrested for vagrancy; dismissed.
On June 17, 1958, arrested for vagrancy ; dismissed.
On October 27, 1958, arrested for disorderly conduct and vagrancy ;
disposition not shown.
His former employment is a restaurateur, longshoreman, tractor
operator on the docks.
In addition to the above, both brothers were held as material
witnesses on March 25, 1952, in connection with the Kings County
grand jury investigation of crime and racketeering in Kings County,
Brooklyn. On March 28, 1952, Joe and Larry Gallo were released
on bail at $10,000 and $25,000 respectively. They were discharged
September 5, 1952.
The arrests each show for vagrancy on June 17, 1958, resulted
from the following
Mr. Kennedy. The story he is about to relate is rather an inter-
esting one, Mr. Chairman, as to the operations of some of these
people.
Mr. Jordan. One Dominick Scialo and Angelo Pero, both of Brook-
lyn, were sought in connection with a double murder in March of
1958. The New York City Police Department, acting on informa-
tion that an affair was to be held at the Club 13 in Brooklyn to raise
money to enable Scialo and Pero to evade authorities, arrested 21
persons who were in attendance and questioned 27 others.
Among those arrested were Joseph and Larry Gallo. Also ar-
rested was John Oddo, alias Joey Bathbeach, a notorious local hood-
lum. Another one of those arrested and questioned was Sidney
Slater, an officer of the now defunct United Machine Office Workers
of New York, Inc.
Mr. Kennedy. They got together, a group of them, to try to raise
money for these two people who were wanted for this double murder ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. It was sort of a fund-raising affair; is that right?
Mr. Jordan. That is our information.
Mr. Kennedy. And these two gentlemen were there to try to con-
tribute to help these other men who were being searched for this
double murder, to help them evade the authorities?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir ; that is our information.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the double murder? T\Tiat was involved
there?
Mr. Jordan. Scialo is wanted for the murder of two men. Alex-
ander Menditto, 17, was found shot on March 17, 1958, in front of 2121
Avenue Z, Brooklyn, and Bartholemew Garofalo, 24, was found dead
on March 18, in a lot at East 70th Street near Avenue W, Brooklyn.
Menditto died later in the hospital on March 25. Garofalo was shot
six times and Menditto four, and then they were thrown from a moving
car.
Mr. Kennedy. And the authorities suspected these two, Scialo and
Pero. You had a little affair for them, did you, Mr. Gallo, to keep
the police from arresting them ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16(S41
TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE GALLO AND JOSEPH GALLO— Resumed
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer nii^^ht tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money were you able to raise that time?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer mi«jht tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Also we have found, haA'e we not, that both of these
men are associated with Carmine Lombardozzi ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, we have, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate that? For instance, you have
general information that they are known and close to Carmine Lom-
bardozzi. Do you have one instance from the police files which show
that they were together ?
Mr. Jordan. The Gallos
Mr. Kennedy. Lombardozzi came to the Gallos' restaurant ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir. At 5 : 10 p.m. on November 23, 1957, Lom-
bardozzi w'as observed in the Gallos' restaurant, along with one John
Amalfitano.
Mr. Kennedy. John Amalfitano is another so-called union official ?
Mr. Jordan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. The name of the restaurant is what ?
Mr. Jordan. Jackie's Restaurant.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, Jackie's Restaurant is where the
previous witness stated that he w^as taken initially on this ride, and
that he met with Mr. Gallo, and at that time Mr. Gallo suggested that
they become partners in the coin-operating machine business.
The Cir AIRMAN. Which one was it ? Which one of the witnesses was
it?
Do you know Sidney Saul ? You, Joseph ?
Mr. Joseph GxVllo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Larry, how about you ?
]\Ir. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you know anybody in this country that you
could admit you know without self-incrimination ? You, Mr. Larry ?
Mr. Law^pence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answ^er because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have a wife?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are your father and mother living?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you an American citizen?
INIr. LA^VRENCE Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you a racketeer and gangster?
Mr. Law^rence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answ-er might tend to incriminate me.
16842 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. How about you, brother Joseph?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you married?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Have you a father and mother?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you an American citizen?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you a union member?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you an association member, a business associa-
tion member?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What is your principal business or occupation?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you what is known as a thug or a hoodlum?
Is that the classification or category you would come in ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you also known as a racketeer and gangster ?
Mr, Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What labor organization or union are you now
associated with ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo, I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, going back to the Lombardozzi meet-
ing in November of 1957, it is of some significance, because this was
the very time, November of 1957, that the Gallos started or originated
local 19, and it would indicate that Mr, Lombardozzi, at least, was
initially informed and brought in on the setting up and establishment
of local 19.
Is that right, Mr, Gallo ?
Mr, Joseph Gallo, I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. Both of you, with some 40 arrests between you and
some eight convictions, went into union work and established your
own union, local 19, is that right ?
Mr, Joseph Gallo, I respectfully decline to answer because my
answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The fact is you were never interested in imion work
or you were never interested in the employees, were you, ]\Ir. Gallo ?
Mr. Joseph. I respectfully decline to answer on the groimd it may
tend to incriminate me.
impropI':r activities in the labor field 16843
Mr. Kennedy. You liad initially moved in on a man by the name
of Clark, had you not, and taken over a part of his business?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Ivennedy. And then you were operating these machines on a
small scale and then along came local 1690. This was in the middle
of 1957. Along came local 1690 and started placing picket lines in
front of your various locations ; is that right ?
Mv. Joseph Galix). I res})ect fully decline to answer because the
answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You had no union at that time, so then the idea came
to you that you would form local 19, and form your own union. Isn't
that what you did — you formed your own union ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And then you started this period of harassment on
the various jukebox owners in the New York area ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer.
Mr. Kennedy. And at that time you had the backing of Carmine
Lombardozzi, who had originally backed Al Cohen and his local
union, but then he switched his backing to you. You also got some
of the coin operators to join your union, the Jacob brothers, for in-
stance. Isn't that right ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Then when the regular association would not join,
the Jacob brothers and some of their followers walked out of the
regular association and formed their own association, the United Coin
Operators Association, isn't that right.
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. After this association was formed, they made a con-
tract with you ; is that right ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And your gangster- run union, at that time ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Then it was decided in order to get even more
strength, you would switch your efforts from local 19, and this was
after our investigation began, that you decided you would switch your
efforts from local 19, which was an independent union, to a union which
was well established, and that was the Teamsters Union, local 266 ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. So through the efforts of the underworld in New
York City, the jurisdiction of the regular Teamster Union which
would ordinarily have been in this field, local 202, was taken away by
Mr. John O'Rourke in early 1958. The jurisdiction was taken away
from them and switched to his gangster-run union of local 266 of
the Teamsters Union ; is that right ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
16844 IMPROPER ACTrV'ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. And this was the union that you, Lombardozzi, De-
Grandis and the rest of the gangsters in New York were backing at
that time ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. DeGrandis in the meantime had had his diffi-
culties because he had been kicked out of the Retail Clerks Union,
where he had operated in the coin-machine business.
The Retail Clerks had come into his office to pick up his records
and found only two things : a billy and a gun. Then he got out of
there and was given a charter in the Teamsters Union. He formed
that local in January 1958. Is that right?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That was local 266 of the Teamsters ; is that right ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully recline — decline to answer on
the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Then what you did was you proceeded to work with
the association. We have already had you identified as attending
and being present at meetings of the association. You went around
and started putting pressure on the various tavern owners that they
should belong to this association, which would then automatically
make them members of local 266 of the Teamsters ; isn't that right ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the gromid
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that you have operated in that fashion
in order to attempt to obtain control of all of the coin-machine busi-
nesses the New York City area, and isn't that what your plan is?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that, as an indication of the fact that
you were switched from local 19 to 266, the records of the compnny
that you have an interest in with your partner, Mr. Norman Clark,
show tliat he began paying dues in local 266 in April of 1958 ?
Is that riglit, that vour own companv started paying dues in lo-
cal 266 ? "
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mrl Kennedy. One of your chief associates has been the Jticob
brothers, who are major operators in New York City. Isn't it a
fact that you have gone down into West Virginia, into Pennsylvania,
and into Ohio to help and assist them in their coin-machine route in
those three States?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it a fact that you are going to attempt, through
these underworld connections, to gain control over all of these opera-
tions in this area?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And if it was necessary, you would have somebody
like Mr. Said knocked on top of the head, or somebody like Mr. Green;
is that richt?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX TIIE LABOR FIELD 16845
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
]\Ir. Kennedy. But you wouldn't do it yourself, would you, Mr.
Gallo? You would have somebody go and do it for you, would you?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer, Mr. Kennedy,
on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you find it is much easier to have a big man go
and do it rather than a little fellow like you ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you a physical coward ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. 1 respectfully decline to answer, Mr. Senator,
on the ground it might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. That might incriminate you to answer? Do you
think it would ? Do you think it would
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. All right ; proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you anything else to tell us, Mr. Gallo ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
it may tend to incriminate me, Mr. Kennedy.
The Chairman. Senators, have you any questions of these talkative
witnesses ?
Senator Ervin. Can you tell us of any honest day's work you ever
did in your life?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I respectfully decline to answer that on the
ground it may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. You may stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Both of you will remain under your present subpena, subject to
being recalled any time the committee may desire further testimony
from you. You will be given reasonable notice of the time and place
where the committee wishes to interrogate you.
Do you accept that recogizance ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. I refuse to answer on the ground it may
tend
The Chairman. You better not refuse to answer that or you will
stay here longer than you want to. All I am asking you is will you
agree to come back here without a further subpena ?
Mr. Joseph Gallo. Sure ; yes.
The Chairman. Say yes, then.
Mr. Joseph Gallo. Yes.
The Chairman. How about you ?
Mr. Lawrence Gallo. Yes.
The Chairman. All right. Stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. John Caruso.
The Chairman. Be sworn.
You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Sen-
ate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so you help you God ?
Mr. Caruso. I do.
36751— 59— pt. 46 25
16846 IMPROPER ACTWITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF JOHN R. CAETJSO
The Chairman. What is your name, your place of residence, and
your business or occupation ?
Mr. Caruso. John Richard Caruso, 3403 12th Avenue, Brooklyn,
N.Y.
The Chairman. I didn't understand what you said you did.
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you mean you can't tell what occupation you
have or what business you are in without the possibility of self-in-
crimination ? Is that what you are saying ?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. You don't think you need a lawyer ; do you ?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Well, do you have a lawyer? Can you answer
that?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. You are entitled, you know that, don't you, to an
attorney; to have an attorney present to advise you of your rights
while you testify? You are apprised of that, aren't you?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Well, I now advise you that you are entitled to
have a lawyer present if you want one. I so inform you, as chair-
man of the committee.
Do you want a lawyer present to represent you while you testify ?
Mr. Caruso. No.
The Chairman. Well, thank you.
Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, from the information that we have,
Mr. Caruso is presently employed as a business agent for the Cafe-
teria Employees Union, local 26, of the Federated Service Workers
Union.
The reason that he is of interest to us is that he was formerly a
vice president of the Game and Jukebox Union, local 19, of the
FSWU.
You were one of the originators of the local 19 with the Gallo
brothers ?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have a member of the staff here
who interviewed Mr. Caruso initially, and Mr. Caruso answered the
questions.
Could we put the information that he gave to us at that time into the
record ?
The Chairman. You may. Call the staff member.
Go over there and sit right by the witness, if you want to, so he
can hear you well, and we will ask him if it is true. I am sure he
would want to deny it, if it is not true.
You have been previously sworn ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Yes, Senator, I have.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16847
TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY— Resumed
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you give us briefly the background of this
witness, what he rehited to us as to how local 19 was formed, and
how
The Chairman. John K. Caruso. That is who you are talking
about. Do you know the witness on your left ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Yes, I do.
The Chairivian. Have you had interviews with him ?
Mr. Constancy. I interviewed John Caruso on June 4, 1958, at his
home at 3403 12th Avenue, Brooklyn.
The Chairman. You interviewed him in your capacity as a mem-
ber of the staff of this committee ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct. I might say that I was accom-
panied by Detective Cy Jordan of the New York Police Department,
at that time.
The Chairman. Was he apprised of your position and authority
at that time ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. He was.
The Chairman. You may proceed.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Mr. Caruso stated that about September or October
1957, he was approached by Anthony Camerona, who he had known
for a few years.
Mr. Caruso said he had been unemployed for several months at
that time in 1957, and that his previous job was that of a truck driver.
Mr. Camerona told him that he knew some jukebox servicemen who
were dissatisfied with local 1690 of the Retail Clerks, which was
then
Mr. Kennedy. That is C-a-m-e-r-o-n-a?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. He doesn't come into this much further, but that
is the identification on how you spell his name?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Yes ; Mr. Camerona was thinking of starting a
new union to help the employees in the jukebox field, and had asked
Mr. Caruso to come into the local and help organize.
Mr. Caruso told me that he knew nothing about union organizing
or the music industry, but he consented anyhow because he wasn't
working. He stated that he could help the employees, and besides,
to quote him, "I would have a steady weekly income for myself."
He stated that the first meeting was attended by the seven charter
applicants held at Camerona's house, and that it was an informal
meeting, not one where someone stood up in front, but a gathering.
The Chairman. That is the applicants for what charter ?
Mr. Constandy. The charter for local 19 of the Federated Service
Workers Union.
The Chairman. That is when they were getting ready to organize
local 19 and get a charter ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Constandy. He believes that the charter application was in
his name, but he denied having signed it. He stated that he gave
permission for his signature to appear on it.
16848 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. ICennedy. He was elected vice president at the first meeting?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Ycs ; he was elected vice president at the first
meeting.
Mr, Kennedy. And he had never heard of the Federated Service
Workers Union ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. No ; he had not.
Mr. Kennedy. His local was a part of that international ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is what he stated to me at that time, that
vs^hen he originally entered into the affair he had not then heard of
the Federated Service Workers.
Mr. Kennedy. At a second meeting a man by the name of Latriano
was elected to an office ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is Latriano, and he was elected to one office,
but Mr. Caruso didn't know what office.
Mr. Kjennedy. He will enter into this hearing quite extensively this
afternoon.
Mr. Constandy. While Mr. Caruso was unemployed and drew no
salary, he had advanced $300 to local 19 to help get it started.
The Chairman. That is this witness had advanced $300 to the union
to help get it started ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That was his statement to you ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Constandy. He said that local 19 had hired between 40 and 50
pickets, never more than 10 at a time, and they were obtained from
employment offices on Warren Street, and were paid the rate of $1
an hour, and that the total amount spent for such picketing ran
between $1,500 and $1,700, which would indicate 1,500 to 1,700 picket
hours. He had instructed the pickets to be nice and give up mem-
bership application blanks if they were asked for them, and if the
storeowner complained, he was to tell the storekeeper, "I am just a
picket," and at that point the picket just gives the business card of
Mr. John Amalfitano to the storeowner and he should call Mr.
Amalfitano.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Amalfitano was the one running the union at that
time?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And as a matter of fact, Mr. Amalfitano was run-
ning the international union ?
Mr. Constandy. As we had testimony from Mr. Javors, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What did he tell the location owner about pulling
the plug ?
Mr. Constandy. Pulling the plug would not suffice, but to indicate
that they were discontinuing the use of the machine not bearing the
local 19 sticker, and it would be necessary for them to remove the
machine from the premises.
I asked Mr. Caruso if he would define "organizational picketing,"
and his answer was that it was picketing to organize. And I asked
him to define "collective bargaining agreement," and he stated he did
not know. He related, too, that he would carry the pickets in his car
and assign them to locations to be picketed, and the only requirement
being that the place have a jukebox in the location.
IMPROPER ACTivrn;:s in the labor field 16849
He said it didn't matter if the jukebox was nonunion or was serv-
iced by a member of any other union, and likewise it didn't matter if
it was owned by the bar owner himself, or was owned by a self-
employed operator.
The Chairman. That was the purpose of the picketing, to force
them into union 19 ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. The picket sign stated that the machine on the
premises was not being serviced by a member of local 19, Federated
Service "Workers.
The Chairman. That is what I mean. No matter whether they
were in another union or not ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That did not matter, as long as it was not local 19.
The Chairman. They would go and picket, this local 19 would
picket, and Caruso was in charge of that picketing, and he was super-
vising that?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
The Chatr^vian. And it picketed the place, anyhow, and the_ pur-
pose being to force the owner or the operator, or force the business,
those interested in it, to join union 19?
Mr. Constancy. Yes, sir. Yes; the initial effect would be on the
storekeeper or tavern owner, who was being asked to discontinue the
use of the machine that was not bearing a local 19 sticker.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he say he just wandered down the street and
would pick out a tavern ?
Mr. Constandy. As he explained it to me, yes ; the matter was purely
in his own discretion, and he would walk down the street and wher-
ever he saw a jukebox that was not bearing a label of local 19 he felt
that he could place a picket. The pickets were assigned in that
manner.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he know any of the benefits of local 19 ?
Mr. Constancy. No ; he did not.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he know what the complaints were against local
1690?
Mr. Constancy. No: he didn't know that either. He went on to
say that he had never received a notice of a meeting and had never
seen a membership card; that he himself had never paid dues or an
initiation fee and had no knowledge of anyone else paying dues. That
all, of course, related to local 19.
Mr. Kennedy, Did he say if he knew of anyone ever joining local 19
as a result of the picketing?
Mr. Constandy. He didn't know of anyone who had joined as a
result of the picketing, and, as a matter of fact, he didn't know if
local 19 had any members other than the original seven, two of whom
had resigned, and he didn't know if the union ever did exist, as it was
enjoined shortly after it was begun. In regard to the office of local 19,
he stated that local 19 never had an office, and it was in Amalfitano's
hat.
The Chairman. In whose hat ?
Mr. Constandy. Amalfitano's ; the union was in his hat.
He further stated that local 19 was not having members under con-
tract. Mr. Caruso's present union, local 26, has no office, and it claims
a membership of 200; and if he wants to contact the union, he calls
the answering service and leaves a message for Mr. Amalfitano. He
16850 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
denied at that time knowing anyone in the jukebox business or even
knowing any employees, and he stated he had never met an employee
in the jukebox business.
He further stated that he went into local 19 knowing nothing and
he came out knowing nothing.
Senator Ervin. As I understand it, the pickets didn't belong to
local 19.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. The pickets were hired, and they were unemployed
people.
Senator Ervin. It was an employment agency for pickets.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. There are employment agencies that handle jobs
Ihat require little or no skill, and it would be from these agencies that
thov would secure the pickets.
Senator Ervin. You would go to one of these agencies, and hire a
man to come out and do some picketing, that had no connection with
the alleged union.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
Senator Ervin. And he just gets so much, and he works for so much
an hour, to picket ?
Mr. Constandy. $1 an hour, yes.
Senator Ervin. Now, where did Mr. Caruso come in financially, did
you find out about that?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. No, sir, we have no record that Mr. Caruso ever
drew any salary, or any other revenue from local 19, and he had ex-
plained to me that the source of the $300 which he loaned to the local
19 treasury, he had in turn realized from an insurance settlement for
an accident that he had some time prior to that.
Senator Ervin. Now, where the owner of the location had one of
these machines without a label, he would remove that machine and
put another one in there ?
Mr. Constandy. The requirement was that the machine in the
premise bear a local 19 label, and if it did not bear that label they
would insist that the owner of the location remove the machine. It
either required that the operator who owned the machine join local 19
and thereby affix a local 19 sticker to the machine, or that the location
owner cause it to be removed.
Senator Ervin. Did you get information as to what the dues were
or the initiation fees to join local 19 ?
Mr. Constandy. No. Unfortunately, local 19 had, prior to our visit,
been permanently enjoined by the supreme court action in New
York County, and Mr. Amalfitano, in conversations I had with him,
explained that as a result of this permanent injunction, he felt that
the union no longer existed and there would be no further need for the
records, and so all of the books and records of local 19 were destroyed.
Senator Ervin. That is all.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have any information as to what the initia-
tion fees or the label dues were?
Mr. Constandy. Not at the present time, no. We do have a contract
that we intend to put in evidence later.
Senator Ervin. So far as you could find, there were never more than
seven members of the union.
Mr. Constandy. Well, Mr. Amalfitano will testify later, and he had
something further along those lines to say. We have never been able
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16851
to find any members of the union other than the original seven, all of
whom loaned their names for the purpose of securing the charter from
Federated Service Workers.
Senator Ervin. You never have been able to find out what the initia-
tion fees or dues were for placing the union's label on a machine?
Mr. Constancy. Senator, I will check that, and at the time Mr.
Amalfitano testifies we will see if we can do that.
Mr. Kennedy. We, of course, know they had an arrangement with
at least one employer, wiiich was the Jacob brothers, and they had at
least had some arrangement, and tlie Jacob brothers were behind the
union.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Mr. Amalfitano stated that they had entered into
several collective bargaining agreements, and the two which he could
recall was one with the Nu-Way Vending Co., owned by the Jacob
brothers, and the other Norman J. Clark, which is the partnership of
Norman J. Clark and the Gallo brothers.
Mr. Kennedy. We have also had the testimony already that the
Jacob brothers were behind this local 19, and we had that testimony.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. They aided and assisted Mr. Amalfitano in the or-
ganization of this.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN R. CARUSO— Resumed
The Chairman. Mr. Caruso, are any of these statements untrue?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly be-
lieve that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. In other words, if you answered honestly, you think
that you would be incriminating yourself ?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you know these Gallos boys that just testified?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly be-
lieve that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Did you see them on the witness stand ?
Mr. Caruso. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly be-
lieve that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are there any other questions ?
Stand aside.
The committee will stand in recess until 2 : 15.
(Whereupon, at 12 : 25 p.m., the select committee recessed to recon-
vene at 2 : 15 p.m., the same day.)
afternoon session
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
afternoon session were Senators McClellan and Capehart.)
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. John Amalfitano.
The Chairman. You solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I do.
16852 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF JOHN JOSEPH AMALFITANO
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Amalfitang. Jolm Joseph Amalfitano, 311 President Street,
Brooklyn, N.Y.
The Chairman. What did you say your business or occupation was,
please ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have a lawyer representing you ?
Mr. Amalfitano. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Amalfitano. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Amalfitano, as we understand, at the present
time you are a business agent for Laundry Workers Union Local 12
oftheFSWU?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And that you are also secretary-treasurer of the
Restaurant and Cafeteria Employees Local 26, FSA^^, and you were
president of the now-defunct Cigarette and Coin Vending Machine
Employees Local 19, FSWU, and you were a member of the board of
trustees of the FSWU ; is that right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might t«nd to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, as far as your background, you were employed
as a longshoreman on the Brooklyn docks, a member of Tony Anas-
tasia's local, and you drove trucks and cranes; is that right?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And then, in the early 1950's, you helped form the
international union called the FSWU; that is, the Federated Service
Workers Union ; is that right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell us if you had done any work in the
labor field prior to that time ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the testimony of a previous witness,
Javors, who testified last week, he stated that all charters were issued
upon the request and recommendation of you, and that no request by
you for the issuance of a charter was ever refused, and that as a
practical matter you were the international union; is that right?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy. And you were the one that set up this local 10 about
which we have had considerable amount of information ; is that right?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, local 26 of the Restaurant and Cafeteria Work-
ers was set up upon the request of Al Gallo, who is another brother
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX TIIE LABOR FIELD 16853
of the two Gallo brothers who appeared here, and he was the one that
was primarily responsible, together with (Jallo's uncle, by the name
of Joseph lovine ; is that right '(
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. lovine became president of the union, and you be-
came secret a rj^-treasurer ; is that right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. As pail ot your organizing activities, you were try-
ing to organize the Fra-Mar Restaurant at 2302 Avenue U, Brooklyn,
and at 4 :30 a.m., on June 20, 1957, at the time when this organization
drive was going on, all of the windows in the restaurant were smashed,
for a total damage of $1,200 ; is that right ?
Subsequently, immediately following that, the owner of the restau-
rant signed up with your union and there was no further damage?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You participated, did you not, in the picketing of
that store ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, interestingly enough, when Joe Profaci was
picked up at the meeting at Apalachin, he had on his possession —
after the meeting at Apalachin, and not at the time, but subsequently
when he was ]:)icked up and questioned — he had on his possession a
card of local 26 of the Eestaurant and Cafeteria Workers, FSWU.
Could you tell us anything about that ? Do you know Joe Profaci ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. He is one of the most notorious importers of nar-
cotics in the United States ; is he not ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And then talking about another local of FSWU,
local 19, the jukebox local, when that local was set up it was instructed
that all correspondence should go to Biagio Latriano ; is that not cor-
rect? Here is a letter on that, and here is a picture, I believe, of
Biagio.
The Chairman. I hand you here for your inspection a letter dated
October 16, 1957, addressed to Federated Service Workers Union, and
it has already been made exhibit 28 t^ the testimony in this hearing.
It bears your signature or your name, of the firet signer of this letter,
and I will ask you to examine it and state if you identify the letter and
your signature thereon.
(A document was handed to the wit ness.)
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The CHAiRifAN. Let the record show that the witness did examine
the document, exhibit 28, presented to him by the Chair.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call your attention to
the last paragraph of this letter, which says :
Kindly refer all correspondence to Biagio Latriano.
16854 IMPROPER ACTI\'ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Now here is a picture of Biagio Latriano.
The Chaieman. I present to you a photograph that shows the full
face of one man in the center and about four-fifths of a man on his
right, and about three-fifths or two-fifths of the face of another man on
his left. I will ask you to examine that photograph and state whose
picture it is in the center.
(Photograph handed to the witness.)
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are they some of your pals?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What business are they in ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Where was the picture made?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Were you present on that occasion ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Let the picture be made exhibit No. 31.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 31" for reference and
may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Here is a picture of Mr. Latriano approximately 8
months later, with 11 bullets in his head.
Tlie Chairman. I doubt if you will recognize this. I present to you
another picture, and ask you to examine it and state if you identify it.
( Photograph handed to the witness. )
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Let the record show that the witness examined the
photograph and let it be made exhibit No. 31 A.
(Photograph referred to marked "Exhibit No. 31 A" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Latriano was murdered around 4:20 a.m. on
August 29, 1958, by being shot 11 times in the head, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Do you know the fellow who got killed ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is there anything in the world you know you could
tell without self-incrimination ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have a wife and children ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have a wife without children ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have a father and mother ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD 16855
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
I just wonder — he has been identified with some of these unions.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the one who set them up, these various locals
that were established upon his request and he was the important offi-
cial in the international union who granted these charters. One of
the charters which was granted to these various locals I have men-
tioned, including No. 12, 19, and local 266 which we have been discuss-
ing over this period of time.
The Chairman. From the information we have, you were just a
plain sorry gangster, a parasite upon humanity.
Do you want to make any comment on that ? That is the informa-
tion we have about you.
IVIr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Now as we have developed, local 19 was backed by the
underworld attempting to move into the coin operating machine busi-
ness, and the charter was granted at the request of Mr. Amalfitano,
and the correspondence was to be sent to this Biagio Latriano, and La-
triano was murdered some 8 or 9 months later, and this local operated
under the direction of the Gallo brothers with Mr. Amalfitano being
one of the officials.
The Chairman. We have already placed that information in the rec-
ord, have we not, under sworn testimony ?
Mr. Kennedy'. That is correct.
The Chairman. The remarks of the Chair here are based upon testi-
mony produced here under oath.
You understand that, do you ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. I will answer for you, that you do understand,
period.
Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you want to place the charter in the record of
local 19, Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman. Who knows about this ?
You are a member of the staff.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is right.
The Chairman. I present to you here a document which purports
to be a charter from the Federated Service Workers Union of America,
Local 19, and I ask you to examine it and state where you obtained
this document, if you obtained it.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. I did obtain the document from the office of Mr.
Amalfitano, on, I believe, June 5, 1958.
The Chairman. The office of the witness who is now testifying?
Mr. CoNSTANDY, That is correct. At that time the office was the
office of local 12 of the FSWU, the Laundry Workers. He turned it
over to us at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that the only records that he said had been kept?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. Tliis charter is dated the 22d day of October 1957
and it may be made exhibit No. 32.
16856 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 32" for reference
and may be found in the filas of the select committee.)
The Chairman. I present to the witness exhibit 32 and ask him to
examine it and state if that is the charter that was issued to local 19.
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answ^er might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is that your name right at the head of the list ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. How many names does the document show^, and
how many were organizers to whom the charter was issued ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Let me see the document.
(Document handed to the chairman.)
The Chairman. Is your name "John J." ?
Mr. Amalfitano. 1 respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Kead this witness his answer to me to the first
question asked him. I asked him to state his name, and what did he
state ?
(The first answer of the witness was then read by the reporter.)
The Chairman. Does the second initial "J" stand for Joseph ? Is
your name John Joseph ?
Mr. Amalfitano. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. How do you spell your last name?
Mr. Amalfitano. A-m-a-1-f-i-t-a-n-o.
The Chairman. That is exactly what is on this document here.
Cigarette and Coin Vending Machine Employees Union, Local 19,
charter members, and your name is John J. Amalfitano, appearing
first on the list.
Do you deny that that charter was issued to you ?
Mr, Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. If it were issued to you, do you think that that
might tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. If it was not issued to you, do you think the fact
it was not issued to you would tend to incriminate j'ou ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Briefly, Mr. Chairman, as we have developed, local
19 was backed by the Gallo brothers and on the association side by the
Jacobs.
Isn't that correct, Mr. Amalfitano ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
(At this point Senator Goldwater entered the hearing room.)
The Chairman. Gallo brothers are the two who testified before
lunch ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16857
Mr. IvENNEDY. Yes. They were the ones who formed the rival as-
socuition and ultimately joined up and backed local 266 of the
Teamsters.
Isn't that right, Mr. Amalfitano ?
Mr. AMALnTANO. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And local 11) was put out of business ultimately by
the injunction that came about from local 1690 and Al Denver, who
was head of the Music Operators of New York ; is that right ?
Mr, Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you all started to support — you and your fel-
low associates started to support local 266 of the Teamsters; is that
right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mv. Kennedy. According to the information that we have, you
are an associate of Charles Morrell, Local Music; is that right?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy, Mr. Morrell has in his business Gregory "Buster"
Ardito, a known narcotics hoodlum, and also pays a weekly check,
does lie not, to Mike Miranda, who is a gangster, who has testified
before this committee in connection with the meeting at Apalachin?
Is that right?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline t-o answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
]\Ir. Kennedy. And isn't it correct that they have an agreement
with your union ? Is that right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Also, your address book indicates that you are a
friend of Frank Bonfiglio, who is known as Frankie Mario, a Brook-
lyn hoodlum. Is that right?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
]\Ir. Kennedy, And he owns a linen supply company, and has a
contract with your local. No, 12, is that right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy, And Mario was present at the dinner party given
by Costello on the night that Costello was shot; is that right?
Mr, Amalfitano, I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me,
Mr, Kennedy. And Mario has a business partnership with Joseph
Magliocco, who is a gangster and a brother-in-law of Joe Profaci,
is that right ?
Mr, Amalfitano, I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly beHeve my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr, Kennedy, You have also been seen in the company of Mr.
Carmine Lonibardozzi, and you were seen in his company just prior
to local 19 being formed ; is that right ?
16858 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr, Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any questions, Senators ?
Is this Biagio Latriano — you can answer for me, but is that the
same fellow that is in this picture, the fellow you said got killed
shortly afterward ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes, he is, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. I want to ask you : Do you know this fellow that
was in this charter with you ?
Mr, Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because my
answer might incriminate me.
The Chairman. One of your partners got killed shortly after-
ward ; is that right ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. In other words, to say if you knew a certain dead
man, it might tend to incriminate you ?
Mr. Amalfitano. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, despite the fact
that this witness has taken the fifth amendment, he is not in the same
category, according to our investigation, certainly, as the Gallo
brothers who testified this morning. The Gallo brothers are in a
far lower category and far worse than this man that appears before
the committee.
, The Chairman. You may have some information upon which to
draw a distinction, but I do not.
Stand aside.
Mr. Kennedy. Herbert and Eugene Jacob.
The Chairman. Come forward, please. Be sworn.
Do you and each of you solemnly swear the evidence you sliall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I do.
Mr. Herbert Jacob. I do.
TESTIMONY OF EUGENE JACOB AND HERBEET JACOB, ACCOM-
PANIED BY COUNSEL, DAVID F. PRICE
The Chairman. The witness on my left, please state your name,
your place of residence, and your business or occupation ?
Mr, Herbert Jacob, My name is Herbert Jacob. The address is
1234 East 26th Street, Brooklyn.
The Chairman. Have you any business at all, or occupation?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because it
might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Mr. Witness on my right, will you state your name,
your place of residence, and your business or occupation?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. Eugene Jacob, 12 High Lane, Levittown, N.Y.
The Chairman. Have you any business or occupation that you can
speak of?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EN THE LABOR FIELD 16859
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that it might incciminate me.
The Chairman. 1 wonder if either of you will admit that you are
kin to the other. Are you related to the witness on your right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. Yes.
The Chairman. Mr. Herbert Jacob, are you related to the witness
on your left ?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. Yes.
The Chairman. What is the relationship ?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. Brothers.
The Chairman. You are brothers. Do both of you or either of
you have an attorney to represent you ?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. Yes.
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself for the record,
please.
Mr. Price. David F. Price, 66 Court Street, Brooklyn 1, N. Y.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, the information we have is that they
are partners in what is known as the Nu-Way Vending Co. of Brook-
lyn, which is a route of 25 jukeboxes and 20 games.
We also have information that they operate a route of 60 to 70 loca-
tions in Chester, W. Va., East Liverpool, Ohio, and Midland, Pa. The
Pennsylvania route is called the American Vending Co. of Pennsyl-
vania, and is owned by the Jacob brothers and Maxwell Gulden, about
whom we have already had testimony.
He was the former treasurer of the now defunct game association
called United Coin Machine Operators of New York. The rest of the
route is owned by the brothers and is called the American Vending Co.
They also operate a service company in New York City which pro-
vides mechanics on a contractual relationship to repair the machines
for some six operating companies.
Is that right, Mr. Jacob, Herbert and Eugene?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because my
answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. What about you ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. We understand that you have two employees in New
York City. One is a brother-in-law who has a part interest in the
company and who receives over $100 a week, and the other, an employee
earning between $55 and $60 a week.
The investigator reported that when he asked you whether either
employee was a member of the union, that you did not know. Is that
right ?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer might incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Local 266 of the Teamsters does not include the name
of either. Further information is that in the West Virginia com-
pany neither employee belongs to any union.
Is that right?
16860 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Herbert Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I feel
my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Lately, Mr. Chairman, starting in 1950, one of them
belonged to the union and the other belonged to the association. They
felt that that was sufficient to cover the situation.
Is that right?
Mr. Herbert Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because my
answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You tell me, too.
Mr. Etjgene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. I just want to go into one instance of your operation,
and that is in connection with a Levittown restaurant. Could you
tell us about your efforts to take over the location of the Levittown
restaurant ? Would you tell us about it ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The name of the restaurant is the Caruso Restau-
rant, located in Levittown.
Mr. Chairman, we have some affidavits in connection with that.
The Chairman. I have before me an affidavit from Salvatore
Caruso, dated the 19th day of November 1958. This affidavit may be
printed in the record at this point.
Mr. Counsel, you may read excerpts from it and interrogate the
witness about it if you desire.
I have before me another affidavit from Mr. Hal Zimmerman. It is
dated the 19th day of November 1958. It will be printed in the record
at this point. You may quote excerpts from it.
(The affidavits referred to are as follows :)
Affidavit
I, Salvatore Caruso, make the following voluntary statement to James P. Kelly,
who has identified himself to me as a staff investigator for the U.S. Senate Select
Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field, and I agree
that the contents may be used by the Senate Select Committee on Improper
Activities in the Labor or Management Field as required.
I am sole owner of Caruso's Restaurant, located at 2716 Hempstead Turnpike,
Levittown, N.Y. In 1956 I was approached by a Eugene Jacobs of Nu-Way
Phono, who sought to put his jukebox in my resaurant. On July 13, 1956, I
entered into a 1-year contract with Nu-Way Phono. The terms of this contract
called for me to receive $400 in "advance commission" for a full year with Nu-
Way Phono, receiving all the proceeds from the jukebox. This contract auto-
matically renewed itself unless either party notified the other in writing. I
also entered into a contract with a Mr. Kohn from County Enterprises for a
cigarette vending machine. On this arrangement I was to receive 1^ cents com-
mission on each pack of cigarettes sold. These arrangements continued until
August 1958 when I notified both firms, by registered mail, that I wished to
discontinue service with them because I intended purchasing my own jukebox
and cigarette machine. On September 8, 1958, I purchased AVurlitzer jukebox
and a new Smokeshop cigarette machine from a Hal Zimmerman of Economy
Vending Service, Inc.
These new machines were installed and the other jukebox and cigarette vend-
ing machine I had placed in the rear of the restaurant pending their removal.
On September 12, 1958, my manager, Mr. p]dward Coleman, was visited by a
Mr. Cohen of Nu-Way Phono and another man who represented himself as being
from the jukebox association. Mr. Coleman infonued me that the sei'ond man
asked who owned the jukebox. He was shown a copy of the bill of sale by
Mr. Coleman and then told him that Mr. Caruso ccmld get hurt as he would
be picketed for putting a union man out rf work. They then left the premises
and Mr. Cohen returned on the following day with the same man whom I now
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16861
believe was Bert Jacobs, brotber of Ehigene. They offered to buy the new juke-
box at its purchase price and continue under the old contract. When I refused
to go along with this they told me I would be reported to "the association" and
would be picketed.
On September 24. 1958, a picket from Local 200, IBT ai>{)eared in front of my
restaurant. At no time did the union get in touch with me regarding the reason
for the pickets. On or about the 2d of October 1958, my attorney. Mr. John
Sullivan of 228-11 Linden Boulevard, Cambria Heights, N.Y., tried to obtain
information from Local 26G, IBT. He was informed by a person who would not
give his name that "Mr. Caruso gave the union a hard time." My attorney was
unable to find out what specific grievance the union had that caused them to
picket my restaurant. He left word to have the president of local 266, a Mr.
Joseph DeGrandis, call him but received no response.
On October 16, 1958, my attorney had a show cause order signed by Supreme
Court Judge D. Orman Richie of Nassau County which was serve<l on local 266.
On or about the 22d of October, my attorney heard from a Mr. J. Joyce Klinger
of 56 Bay Street, Staten Island, N.Y., who stated that he represented Local 266,
IBT.
He told my attorney that if I stipulated that I would call a union serviceman
when my jukebox needed repairs the union would cease picketing my restaurant.
This stipulation agreement was executetl on October 27, 1958, and at or about
the time the picketing ended. Since then I have had no further trouble from
this union.
I have read the foregoing statement, and to the best of my knowledge and
belief the facts contained herein are true.
Salvatobb Caruso.
Ctbll T. Jordan, Witness.
Sworn to before me this 19th day of November 1958.
DOMINICK NOCE,
Notary Public, State of New York, No. 30-2897750,
Qualified in Nassau County.
Term expires March 30, 1959.
Affidavit
I, Hal Zimmerman, make the following voluntary statement to James P.
Kelly, who has identified himself to me as a staff investigator for the U.S. Senate
Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field,
and I agree that the contents may be used by the Senate Select Committee on
Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field as required :
I am the president of Economy Vending Service, Inc., locatetl at 2947 Long
Beach Road, Oceanside, Long Island. This company is engaged in selling juke-
boxes and cigarette machines on a direct sale basis to store owners. I have been
in business for the past 3 years. Sometime in early September 1958 I sold a
jukebox and a cigarette machine to Salvatore Caruso, of Caruso's Restaurant
of 2716 Hempstead Turnpike, Levittown, N.Y.
Shortly after the delivery of these machines I received a telephone call at my
home from an individual who identified himself as Eugene Jacobs and who
stated that he represented local 266, IBT. Jacobs offered me several hundred
dollars to remove the machines from Caruso's Restaurant. When I refused, this
person said that "You can't sell your machines to Caruso; we won't stand for
it. You have a nice wife and child ; you had better get smart."
A week later I received another call at my place of business from a person
who identified himself as Eugene Jacobs. He asked me what I decided to do
about the jukebox in Caruso's and when I informed him that I went to the Nas-
sau district attorney and the Nassau police, he replied, "That's fine; now you
are in our hands." On the following morning I did in fact go to the Nassau
district attorney's office to tell this story. Since then I received no further
telephone calls from this individual.
I have read the foregoing statement and to the best of my knowledge and
belief the facts contained herein are true.
Hal Zimmerman.
Cykit. T. Jordan, Witness.
Sworn to before me this 19th day of November 1958.
Fred Hetjenstreit,
Notary Public, State of New York, Qualified in Nassau County,
No. 30-1730700.
Commission expires March 30, 1959.
36751 — ^59— pt. 4« 26
16862 IMPROPER ACTn^ITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have a situation where a man
wanted to buy his own machine for his own restaurant. He had Mr.
Jacob's machine in there, and he wanted to buy his own. Through
threats and intimidation, attempts at intimidation, the Jacob brothers
sought to keep their machine in the restaurant.
A picket line was set up when this man tried to buy his own machine.
We have here a picture of the picket. We also have a witness who
can testify as to an interview that he had with the picket, Mr. Chair-
man.
The Chairman. Was this picket put up by this fellow Jacob on
the witness stand ?
Mr. Kennedy. This was set up by local 266 of the Teamsters Union
which is the union, according to the testimony we have had, was
formed and established through the efforts of Mr. Jacob and his
brother.
It is of some interest, Mr. Chairman, that the sign on the picket
is incorrect, because the picket thought he was picketing for amuse-
ment machines, and it was a jukebox. They have the wrong union.
It is just a form sign that he wore around, and they filled in the
blanks. Somebody filled in the wrong blanks.
The Chairman. Mr. Herbert and Mr. Eugene Jacob, do you think
you can identify this picture? Take a look at it and see if you
recognize the picket.
^The photograph was handed to the witnesses.)
(The witnesses conferred with their counsel.)
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate myself.
The Chairman. Let the record show the witness examined the
picture and consulted with his counsel, and then gave that answer.
Let the picture be made exhibit No. 33.
(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 33" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
Mr. Kennedy. May I call another short witness, Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kelly.
The Chairman. Mr. Kelly, you have been previously sworn ?
Mr. Kelly. Not in this hearing, sir.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kelly. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES P. KELLY
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
present employment.
Mr. Kelly. My name is James P. Kelly. I am from New York
City, employed as a staff investigator by this committee.
The Chairman. How long have you been so employed ?
Mr. Kelly. For the past 2 years.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Kelly, you secured the photostatic copy of the
original contract the Jacob brothers had with the Caruso Restaurant?
Mr. Kelly. That is correct, sir.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16863
Mr. Kennedy. And then you also received a photostatic copy of the
contract for the purchase of the machine by Caruso Restaurant when
they wanted to get rid of the Jacob brothers ?
Mr. Kelly. Tliat is correct.
Mr, Kennedy. And then according to the affidavit, a copy of this
contract was shown to the Jacob brothers and even despite that fact
the picket line appeared in front of the Caruso Restaurant?
Mr. Kelly. That is right, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. So when when the people tried to buy their own ma-
chine, place their own machine in their own restaurant, a picket line
was placed in front of them to try to stop them, so that they would
continue to do business with the Jacob brothers, who, according to
the testimony, originally set up this Teamsters Union and financed
it?
Mr. Kelly. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you interview the picket ?
Mr. Kelly. If you call it an interview, we spoke briefly with him
on September 26, 1958, when we came out of Caruso's Restaurant.
I asked him his name and it was Kenneth Ciazzo.
I asked him where he was from and he said Brooklyn. I said,
"What is the story here? Why are you picketing?" He said, "I
don't know, but I think it has something to do with the machine in
there, the jukebox."
I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "No." I said, "What is this
local?" and he said, "266." I said, "Where are they located?" He
happened to look at the sign and read upside down from the sign the
address of local 266 in New York City. He didn't even know the
address of the local for which he was picketing.
He then indicated to Detective Jordan and myself that he had been
hired, that he was not a member of the union, that he had merely
been hired, that he had worked in Brooklyn on the docks, that he re-
ceived something like $1 an hour for this work.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you want to have those made exhibits, Mr.
Chairman ?
The Chairman. I hand you three photostatic copies of documents.
I will ask you to examine the first one and state if you identify it.
(The document was handed to the witness.)
Mr, Kelly. Yes, sir ; I do.
The Chairman. What is it ?
Mr. Kelly. This is the agreement that Nu-Way Phonograph made
with Caruso's Restaurant on July 13, 1956.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 34.
(Document refen-ed to was marked "Exhibit No. 34" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. I hand you two other photostatic copies. They
appear to be what is entitled "Rush Order." They are not alike,
however. They are for different purposes, apparently.
W^ill you examine those and state if you identify them ?
(The documents were handed to the witness.)
Mr. Kelly. Yes, sir. Senator. One is the rush order for Economy
Vending Service, Mr. Zimmerman's outfit, for a new Wurlitzer out-
fit, and the other is for a Smokeshop cigarette machine.
Both the jukebox and the cigarette machine were purchased by Mr.
Caruso for his own use in that restaurant.
16864 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. They may be made exhibit No. 34A and 34B.
(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 34A and 34B" for
reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Jacob, did you tell the gentleman, Mr. Zimmer-
man, who wanted to sell this jukebox to the Caruso Restaurant, when
he said he intended to do that, that "You have a nice wife and child,
and you better get smart" ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Just because this man was going to sell a jukebox in
a location that you wanted, you were threatening his wife and his
child ; is that right, Mr. Jacob ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I feel
that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. This whole idea about the operation of the union,
the establishment of the union, bringing these gangsters in, you
played a very major role in it; did you not, Mr. Jacob? It was your
idea to a large extent? You brought the Gallos in; did you not?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. When they were able to move legally against this
gangster-run union, local 19, you proceeded to bring in local 266 of
the Teamsters ; is that right ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The whole reason for you doing this, as has been
testified to here by two separate witnesses, was that you expected to
establish a monopoly in the whole city of New York, with you con-
trolling the jukebox and the game machines in the city of New York,^
with the help and assistance of these gangster-run unions; is that
right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And anybody that stood in your way was threatened
or beaten ; is that right, Mr. Jacob ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I feel
my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. When you had some opposition, like you had the
opposition from Mr. Green, you took your group out of the regular
association, formed your own association, and then Mr. Green was
badly beaten, so that he continuously has headaches and has trouble
walking, and has lost a lot of control over his faculties; is that right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly feel it would tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't that the way this whole thing is operated and
run, that this is not a union operation, but it is an underworld opera-
tion, and that they need the assistance of people such as yourself
who have these underworld connections to try to spread your tenta-
cles out through the whole of the city and use the union in order to
further your own design ; isn't that right ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that the answers may tend to incriminate me.
IMPROPER ACTRITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16865
Mr. Kennedy. And you linunced the union, as has been testified to
here before the connuittee, did you not, local 266, and called it your
union ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that the answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do any Teamsters belong to that union? That is,
266. Do you know of any ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. 1 respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that the answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. The forming of the other association, according to
our information, in that, Bert Jacob put up $1,000 and Eugene Jacob
put up $500. That was $1,500 out of the $2,000 that went to form
this association. Then the contract with local 266 was immediately
■signed.
Is that right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. In fact, the records that we have show that the con-
tract between this United Coin Association and local 266 was entered
into before the association ever even came into being. Is that right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. I^NNEDY. We have a letter that went out on January 27,
1958; a notice to the operators. It was mailed out over Eugene
Jacob's signature, which stated, "We have signed a collective bar-
gaining agreement with local 266 of the Teamsters." That is Janu-
.ary 27, 1958.
A contract in the committee's possession between United Coin and
local 266 of the Teamsters, is dated January 28, the following day.
However, the minutes of that first board of directors' meeting show
that that occurred on January 29, 1958, the day following.
Can you explain that to us ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. IvENNEDY. And the minutes further show^ that the first meet-
ing of the membership was held on January 30, 1958, at which time
it was announced that the association had negotiated a contract with
local 266 of the Teamsters.
Can you explain to us how you can enter into a contract between an
association and a union when the association had not yet come into
being? That is No. 1.
The second point is : Were the membership who were involved in
this, the local employees, the employees that worked for you people,
were they ever consulted ?
Obviouslj^, from this chronology, thev were not.
Is that right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my ansvrer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. This was just a scheme on your part, was it not, to
control the coin-machine business in New York City ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
16866 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. And you moved the Gallo brothers, have you not,
the strong-arm brothers, down into these other States, Pennsylvania
and West Virginia, and Ohio, to further your aims? Is that right?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground
that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, would you want to put in the rec-
ords showing these dates ?
The Chairman. Plave we the evidence here ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
The Chairman. Mr. Constandy, you have been previously sworn.
You may testify about it.
Mr. Constandy. I have before me a certified copy of the certificate.
The certificate was signed on January IT, 1958, and filed Januai-y 20,
1958. It bears the certification by the secretary of state.
The Chairman. That may be made exhibit No. 35.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 35" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee) .
Mr. Constandy. I have before me on the letterhead of the United
Coin Machine Operators of New York, Inc., a notice to fellow op-
erators, dated Januaiy 27, 1958, and it was delivered to the staff mem-
bers by the Association of United Coin Machine Operators.
The Chairman. It may be made exhibit 35A.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit 35A" for reference and
may be found in the files of the select committee) .
Mr. Constandy. I also have before me the total minutes of the
United Coin Machine Operators Association which were delivered to
the committee. They are five in number, dated January 29th, which
is the meeting of the board of directors; a general meeting, minutes
for January 30; then February 18, 28, and March 12, all in 1958.
The Chairman. They may be made exhibit No. 36.
(Documents referred to marked "Exhibit No. 36" for reference and
may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Constandy. Those, incidentally, were unsigned copies that we
received.
Mr. Kennedy. We have also some information or evidence that the
United Coin was paying at least some of the bills of the Gallo brothers.
Is that right, Mr. Jacobs ?
Mr. Eugene Jacobs. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestlv feel that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. We have here a check, Mr. Chairman, in the amount
of $175, drawn on the United Coin account. We have the rest of the
documentation showing how the money was spent.
The Chairman. I hand you here, Mr. Eugene Jacob, an original
check, dated March 20, 1958, drawn on the Chase National Bank of
New York. It is payable to station M, or W — I can't be sure which
Mr. Kennedy. Station M.
The Chairman. In the amount of $175. It is signed United Coin
Machine Operators of New York, by Eugene Jacob, president; Max-
well Gulden, secretary.
Attaclied to it is nn information request made out in the name of
Albert Gallo, and addressed to Robert J. Cofini.
There is also attached a calling card of Station M, Inc., together
with an invoice on the station M invoice blank, giving different items,
a total of $376.02, the invoice being dated March 1, 1958.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16867
I present to you all of these documents, which I have referred to,
and ask you to examine them and first state if you identify the clieck.
(Documents handed to the witness.)
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer may tend to incriminate myself.
The Chairman. The check may be made exhibit 37.
(Check referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 37" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 16936.)
The Chairman. The other documents will be made A, B, C, in the
order in which the Chair referred to them.
(Documents referred to marked "Exhibits Nos. 37A and 37B" will
be found in the appendix on pp. 16937-16938. 37C may be found in
the liles of the select committee.)
The Chairman. I will ask you about the other documents as well,
the calling card, the business card, the request from Mr. Gallo, and
also the invoice.
Do you know anything about those ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. We may have the explanation of it.
Do you want us to give it to you, if you do not want to give it to us ?
Would you like to listen to it?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel
The Chairman. Do you think what you say may incriminate you ?
All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. These documents show that the work was contracted
for by Sidney Slater, the managing director of United Coin; that
the car was owned by Mr. Albert Gallo, and evidently the money came
out of the United Coin Machine Association, again showing the close
connection between the association, the Gallos, and the fact that the
Gallos had ultimately backed local 19 of the FSWU.
Could you tell us why you were paying the bills of the Gallos ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I
honestly feel my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Doesn't this tend to support the testimony of the
earlier witness who said that the Gallos were frequently in the oflfice
of the United Association, the Coin Machine Association, and that
they were doing organizational work on behalf of you people, going
around getting locations and stops ?
Mr. Eugene Jacob. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly feel that my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any questions by any members?
If not, you may stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Joseph lovine.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Iovine. I do.
16868 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH A. lOVINE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
DAVID r. PRICE
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. loviNE. Joseph A. lovine, 2212 Trenton Road, Brooklyn, N.Y.,
attorney at law.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. I assume you waive coun-
sel, or do you have counsel ?
Mr. Price. Counsel is here with him, sir.
The Chairman. Let the record show that the same counsel, Mr.
Price, who appeared for the previous witness, appears also for this
witness, Mr. lovine.
Mr. Kennedy. It is I-o-v-i-n-e?
Mr. loviNE. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. You are an attorney-at-law ?
Mr. Iovine. I am, yes,
Mr. Kennedy. Licensed to practice in the State of New York?
Mr. loviNE. Yes, I am.
Mr. Kennedy. For how long ?
Mr. loviNE. Since June of 1955.
Mr. Kennedy. You were an applicant on the FS"VVU charter for
the Restaurant and Cafeteria Employees Union, Local 26?
Mr. loviNE. That is correct, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to become an applicant for
that charter ?
Mr. Iovine. Mr. John Amalfitano, whom I had known for 7 or 8
years asked me if I wouldn't assist him in organizing the restaurant
industry.
Mr. Kennedy. Had you had any activity in that field before ?
Mr. Iovine. I had not, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Had Mr. Amalfitano been active in the restaurant
field before ?
Mr. loviNE. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you agree then to go along and help organize
the restaurant workers ?
Mr. Iovine. Yes, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you say you had known Mr. Amalfi-
tano?
Mr. Iovine. Approximately 7 years.
Mr. I^NNEDY. How had you Imown him ?
Mr. Iovine. Through a mutual friend, Frank Marterello.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he also an associate of your nephews? Are
you an uncle of the Gallos ?
Mr. lo^^NE. Yes, I am, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Was he an associate of theirs, also?
Mr. loviNE. An associate of whom ?
Mr. Kennedy. A1 Gallo.
Mr. Iovine. Mr. John Amalfitano ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Iovine. I don't know whether or not Mr. Amalfitano knew
Mr. Albert Gallo prior to that time.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, did you become an officer in that union ?
Mr. Iovine. Yes, sir, I did, sir.
lAIPHOPEU ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16869
Mr. Kennedy. What office?
Mr. loviNE. President.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know anythinnf about the window breaking
at the restaurant that was being organized by local 26 that I spoke
about earlier today ?
Mr. loviNE. I did not until after its occurrence.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who was responsible for it ?
Mr. Iovine. I do not.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you take an active role in running the union ?
Mr. loviNE. I assisted in drafting the constitution, the scope and
management and I assisted in drafting copies of the contracts that
were submitted to the employees in connection with the negotiating
collective bargaining agi'eements, and I was a signatory on the bank
accounts of the local.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Was there money going through the local?
Mr. Io^^NE. I believe we had approximately 50 to 75 members dur-
ing my tenure of office.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Where was the money from their dues kept?
Mr. loviNE. It was kept in a bank deposited, I believe it was^
the Bankers Trust. I am not sure.
Mr. Kennedy. What were the dues ?
Mr. Iovine. $1 a week.
Mr. I^nnedy. What has happened to that money ?
Mr. Iovine. That money was expended for printing circulars for
the purpose of soliciting membership, and for the purpose of publish-
ing stationery and for the purpose of engaging pickets engaged in
organizational picketing.
Mr. Kennedy. Where did you find your pickets ?
Mr. Iovine. Mr. John Amalfitano got them.
Mr. I^nnedy. Wliere did you hire them ?
Mr. Iovine. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How much did you pay them ?
Mr. Iovine. I don't recall, sir, the record would show that, and I
don't remember.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't have any participation and didn't par-
ticipate in the selection of the pickets ?
Mr. Iovine. No, I did not.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you select those places that were to be pick-
eted?
Mr. Iovine. No, sir, I did not. We consulted, when we solicited
members we would discuss the matter before picketing.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you picket if the employees decided they
didn't want to belong to the union ?
Mr. Iovine. I don't believe we ever picketed where we had no mem-
bers, and it was only in those locations where we had members that
the picketing was engaged in.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliy did you have to hire pickets then, if the em-
ployees wished to go out on strike themselves?
Mr. Iovine. The employees did not express an indication to go out
on strike.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Wliat did they express an indication of?
Mr. Iovine. The employees who were solicited expressed an indi-
cation that they wanted to be members of the union.
16870 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have cards to that effect ?
Mr. loviNE. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened to those cards?
Mr. loviNE. Those cards, I believe, are still in the custody of Mr.
Amalfitano.
Mr. Kennedy. How long did you remain with that union?
Mr. Iovine. Until approximately January, some 10 months, Janu-
ary of 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did you resign ?
Mr. loviNE. Lack of cooperation on the part of the membership
in calling meetings, and obtaining quorums.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you expect to pick up some law business in ad-
dition ?
Mr. Iovine. I don't know that was the specific intention, but I as-
sume if it came I would take it.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that one of the reasons for getting into this?
Mr. Iovine. I don't know that was a specific thing, and I considered
it a worthy cause.
Mr. Kennedy. There might be a good salary from it, or what ?
Mr. Iovine. I didn't have any specific intent, and I anticipated that
it might be successful and there might be remuneration in the future.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlien did you first get into or learn or hear about the
coin industry or become interested in the coin industry?
Mr. Iovine. Sometime during the latter part of 1957, as a result
of legal representation of Norman Clark and Gallo.
Mr. Kennedy. They had set up a company, had they, Mr. Gallo
and Mr. Clark?
Mr. Iovine. I believe they did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you at that time understand that there would
be a good field, there would be a good business to get into ?
Mr. Iovine. I had no understanding, and they had legal problems
and they came to me and I represented them.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go into the idea of getting locations, did
you discuss that with them ?
Mr. Iovine. For whom? For them, you mean ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Iovine. No.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the legal problem that was facing them
at that time ?
Mr. Iovine. Now I would like to determine whether or not that is
privileged communication, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. It is not necessary to go into it. At that time had
the operator decided what union to affiliate with ?
Mr. Iovine. At what time, Mr. Kennedy ?
Mr. Kennedy. In 1957, the latter part of 1957.
Mr. Iovine. In December of 1957 or January of 1958 ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Iovine. I believe they had determined that they were going to
join local 266.
Mr. Kennedy. This was the operatoi*s ?
Mr. Iovine. Mr. Gallo aud Mr. Norman Clark, and I don't believe
I knew any of the of lier operators at that time.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat union had they discussed or contemplated
joining prior to their decision to join local 266 ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16871
Mr. loviNE. Well now, again I believe that would be a privileged
conununication, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. What union they wanted to join ? Wasn't it local 19
that they were originally contemplating joining and then they switched
over to 266 ?
Mr. loviNE. My recollection is that they were members of local 19.
Mr. Kennedy, And then they switched to local 266 ?
Mr. loviNE. I believe that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. 'VVliat was the reason they switched to 266?
Mr. loviNE. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You don't know, and you never discussed that?
Mr. loviNE, I didn't discuss that.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you 3^ourself have anything to do with local 266 ?
Mr. Iovixe. I was vice president.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you become vice president ?
Mr. loviNE. I was nominated by Mr. Norman Clark.
Mr. KJENNEDY. You, the attorney for one of the operators, was
made vice president of the Teamsters' local ?
Mr. loviNE. That is correct, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Had you been a member of the union at that time ?
Mr. Io^^NE. I had filed an application,
Mr. Kennedy. Were you a member of the union at the time you be-
came vice president ?
Mr. Io\T[NE. I filed an application at the time and I was not in
attendance at the meeting at which I was elected.
Mr. Kennedy. You were not actually a member of the union at the
time you became vice president?
Mr. loviNE. If the meeting was held after the submission of my
application, I would have been a member at the time.
Mr. Kennedy. WHien did you file the application ?
Mr. Iovine. To the best of my recollection, sometime in December
of 1957, or January of 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. When were you admitted or when did you first at-
tend a meeting, or when did you receive notification back that you
were a member ?
Mr. Iovine. I believe it was some 3 or 4 days after I completed my
application.
Mr. Kennedy. You hadn't received notification you were a member
at tlie time you were elected vice president ?
Mr, Iovine, It was some 3 or 4 days after I had filed my application.
Mf. Kennedy. Had you received notification that you were a
member at the time you were elected vice president of the union ?
Mr. Iovine. I don't know the dates, Mr. Kennedy, and I don't know
whether it was simultaneously or it followed.
Mr. Kennedy. Can you testify here before the committee that you
were in fact a member of the union at the time you were elected vice
president ?
Mr, Io\t:ne, I cannot so testify, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the Teamster constitution, section 4,
article 2, Eligibility to Office :
To be eligible for election to an oflBce of a local union or the international
union, a member must be in continuous good standing for a period of 2 years
prior to nomination for said office, and must have worked at the craft as a
member for a total period of 2 years.
16872 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IX THE LABOR FIELD
Had you worked at the craft as a member for a period of 2 years?
Mr. loviNE. I had not, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Ejennedy. You were not a member in good standing certainly
of the Teamsters Union for 2 years.
Mr. loviNE. I had not paid any initiation or any dues.
The Chairman. You mean you were elected vice president before
you paid any dues or any initiation fee ?
Mr. loviNE. I never paid any initiation fees.
The Chairman. Have you ever paid any since ?
Mr. loviNE. I have never paid any, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. At any time ?
Mr. loviNE. At any time.
The Chairman. Before becoming a member or since ?
Mr. loviNE. That is correct.
The Chairman. What provision of the constitution entitles you to
such privileges ?
Mr. loviNE. I am not familiar with the provisions of their constitu-
tion, and I never attended any meetings at their office.
The Chairman. How long did you remain vice president of local
266?
Mr. loviNE. I resigned sometime after a meeting in February of
1957.
The Chairman. How long a period of time?
Mr. loviNE. That would be approximately a month or two, and my
letter of resignation followed sometime thereafter.
The Chairman. I don't know, and the files may show the date.
Mr, Kennedy. I will go into that. I would like to read on in the
constitution, Mr. Chairman:
In local unions organized for less than 2 years, an individual must be a
member and in continuous good standing and must have worked at the craft
as a member for at least half of the period of time since the local union was
chartered by the international union.
Now, this local union was chartered some time ago, but it was re-
activated, as I understand it, in December of 1957, or January of 1958.
Mr. lovENE. I wouldn't know anything about that, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't Imow anything about the operations of
the union?
Mr. loviNE. Absolutely not.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you surprised when you were elected vice
president ?
Mr. loviNE. I don't know that I experienced any emotional re-
action.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know where the local office was located?
Mr. loviNE. Only that at the address to which my letter of resigna-
tion was forwarded.
Mr. Kennedy. Prior to that, when you were vice president, did you
know where the local office was?
Mr. Iovine. I never attended the office at any time.
Mr. Kennedy. You never were in the office?
Mr. lovENE. Never.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you meet Joe DeGrandis?
Mr. loviNE. I did not meet Mr. DeGrandis until February 16, which
was the date I attended the meeting at the joint council.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16873
Mr. Kenntedy. "What was that meeting and was that the only meet-
ing you ever attended ?
Mr. loviNE. It was the only meeting I attended.
Mr. Kexnedt. That was a meeting of the joint council ?
Mr. loviNE. Yes, and my purpose in going there at the time was
"to inform them of my resignation.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you participate in the election?
Mr. loviNE. Yes, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know who you voted for ?
Mr. loviNE. I don't recall whom I voted for.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you vote?
Mr. loviNE. Yes; I did, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know who was running for head of the joint
■council ?
Mr. loviNE. I don't recall.
Mr. Kennedy. Your letter of resignation is dated May 26, 1958, and
-states that it is to take effect as of this date ; is that right ?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Why did you become vice president of Local 266 of
"the Teamsters ?
Mr. loviNE. I indicated an interest to become a member of the union
und I contemplated seriously going into the industry and purchasing
machines and going into the industry, and I merely desired to become
a member, and there was no expressed authorization on anyone to
nominate me for office.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't a union supposed to be made up of employees ?
Mr. Iovine. Well, I believe that operators who service their own
machines and collect their own machines are members of the union.
Mr. Kennedy. Is that what you planned to do — to go around and
service your own machines and collect ?
Mr. Iovine. I contemplated that I would do that, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever?
Mr. Iovine. I did not. I talked with Mr. Price, my law partner, and
after talking to him I no longer considered the situation feasible.
Mr. Kennedy. Was Mr. Price your law partner, who represented
the Jacob brothers — did he have anything to do with the association?
Mr. Iovine. Absolutely not.
Mr. Kennedy. He never worked or was attorney for the association ?
Mr. Iovine. Which association ?
Mr. Kennedy. Any of the coin machine associations ?
Mr. Iovine. Well, we are the attorneys for the Associated Amuse-
ment Machine Operators of New York.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, so I understand, you two, you and your part-
ner, are the attorneys for the Associated Amusement — what is it?
Mr. Iovine. Machine Operators of New York,
Mr. Kennedy. The association which is made up of employers; is
that right ?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct.
Mr. KJENNEDY. And you, on the other hand, were a vice president of
the Teamsters Union ?
Mr. Iovine. Not at the same time.
Mr. Kennedy. When were you attorneys for the association ?
Mr. Iovine. Sometime in August or September of 1958.
16874 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Then you weren't attorneys for the association prior
to that time ?
Mr. loviNE. We were not.
Mr. Kennedy. You went from a vice president of the Teamsters
Union, Local 266, to attorney for the association ?
Mr. loviNE. I resigned in May of 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. I think it was 1958.
Mr. loviNE. Yes, 1958, and in September, I believe, we became the
attorneys for the Associated Amusement Machine Operators of New
York.
Mr. Kennedy. So the answer is "Yes" to my question.
Mr. loviNE. If that was the question.
Mr. Kennedy. Vice president of the Teamsters to counsel for the
association.
Mr. Iovine. I didn't go from one to the other. I resigned in May of
1958 and there was no contemplation at that time of becoming the
attorneys for any organization.
Mr. Kennedy. When did Mr. Price become attorney for the
association ?
Mr. Iovine. In September of 1958 ; in August or September.
Mr. Kennedy. He had not worked for the association prior to that
time?
Mr. Iovine. He had not, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. For the Jacob brothers, and he represented the
Jacob brothers ?
Mr. Iovine. We had never represented the Jacob brothers.
Mr. Kennedy. Up until this hearing.
Mr. Iovine. Up until this hearing.
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Iovine. I believe he represented the Jacob brothers when they
visited Mr. Constandy and Mr. May before the State select committee
in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were attorney, or so I understand, you
were the attorney for Gallo, and this is a third brother, Albert Gallo.
Let me start over again. You were attorney for Larry Gallo ?
Mr. Iovine. That is Lawrence Gallo and Norman Clark.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was an operator; is that right?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And from there you went to be vice president of
local 266?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And then you resigned as vice president of local 266
and bceame the attorney subsequently for the association ?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And your fellow law partner is also an attorney for
the association, and also for the Jacob brothers?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. It shows, I believe, does it not, a very close relation-
ship between all concerned in this, the association and the union, and
the Gall OS and the Jacobs.
Mr. Iovine. I don't believe it shows a close association with respect
to the Gallos or with respect to the unions or with respect to the asso-
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16875
elation. It shows that Mr. Amalfitano asked me to assist him in the
Restaurant Union and I consented, that I resigned in January of
1958, and I had known Mr. Amalfitano.
I represented the Gallos and Mr. Norman Chirk in connection with
their music box operation because I was requested to represent them,
and we were recommended to be considered as attorneys for the as-
sociation when the association was without an attorney.
Mr. Kennedy. Have you linished ?
Mr. loviNE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, I would say for my part, from an analysis
or examination of the situation, that it shows a very, very close associa-
tion between the Jacob brothers, who were participating according
to the testimony in setting up local 19, and then participating in
setting up local 266. The Jacob brothers, the employers, on one
hand, and the union, DeGrandis' union coming into existence with
him as the head of it in January of 1958, after he had been kicked out
of another union, and then you becoming a vice president, and then
shortly afterwards leaving there and both of you becoming attorneys
for the association.
To me it shows a very, very close relationship and participation by
all parties.
Mr. loviNE, I am stating the facts, Mr. Kennedy, and if that is
your inference and conclusion, you are entitled to it.
Mr. Kennedy. It is.
The Chairman. Is there anything further ?
Are they any questions?
Senator Capehart. I don't want to go over ground that has been
gone over maybe before at other hearings, but what was the purpose
of organizing the so-called dealers or operators in these machines?
Mr. Io\^NE. I don't know, and I didn't organize it.
Senator Capehart. You don't Imow the purpose of doing it?
Mr. Iovine. No.
Senator Capehart. If I understand correctly, the owners them-
selves belong to the miion ; is that correct?
Mr. Iovine. That is my understanding.
Senator Capehart. And likewise their employees?
Mr. Io^^;NE. Their employees likewise.
Senator Capehart. And they both belong to the same union?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct.
Senator Capehart. And you don't know the reason for it?
Mr. Iovine. I do not.
Senator Capehart. Why would both employer and employee be-
long to the same union ?
Mr. Iovine. I do not know.
Senator Capehart. You have no knowledge whatsoever of why
that would be?
Mr. Iovine. The employers, I believe, engage in the collection or
servicing of machines, and in that situation if they took the place of
an employee, then as such I believe the union would feel that they
must belong to the union.
Senator Capehart. Well, was it the purpose of the employer, as
well as the employee belonging to the union, to discipline locations,
16876 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
meaning the restaurant or places where these machines were put ?
What that the purpose of it f
Mr. loviNE. I don't understand when you say "to discipline."
Senator Capehart. Well, insist that they do business with a certain
operator, and not another operator.
Mr. loviNE. I am not familiar with that.
Senator Capehart. And the percentage of the income of the ma-
chines be divided on a certain basis ?
Mr. Iovine. I don't understand your question, sir.
Senator Capehart. Well, to put it another way, or maybe you don't
know, and if you don't, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but
1 am just wondering if the information has been brought out as
to why the employer and the employee would belong to the same
union.
Ordinarily employees belong to imions, but employers do not, and
they get together and they bargain. Now I am trying to see if you
know why in this instance both the employers and the employees
belonged to the union.
Was it for the purpose of forcing certain rules and regulations
upon the places where they put these machines ?
Mr. loviNE. I do not know that that has arisen, Senator.
Senator Capehart. You just don't know why both belong?
Mr. Iovine. Only that an owner-operator may service or make
collection upon a machine which is in a location, and as such, he may
be taking the place of labor and should be entitled to belong.
Senator Capehart. Isn't it a fact that the employers did no service
work and they likewise belonged to the union; is that correct?
Mr. Iovine. That is correct.
Senator Capehart. So you don't know why there is this unusual
situation of both employers and employees belonging to the same
union ?
Mr. Iovine. Only for the reason I have expressed, that thej may
service or collect on the machines that they have in a particular
location.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Prof aci, when he was arrested on one occasion
had the card of local 26, which is one of the unions you were an officer
of. Do you know Mr. Prof aci ?
Mr. Iovine, I do not, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know why he had the card of your local!
Mr. Iovine. I don't have any knowledge that he had such a card,
and I don't know why, if he "had such a card, why he would have
it.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know of Mr. Profaci as a notorious gang-
ster ?
Mr. Iovine. I do not.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all.
The Chairman. Stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this
Spnate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I do.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16877
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH DeGRANDIS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
HARRY CLIFFORD ALLDER
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and
your business or occupation.
Mr. DeGrandis. Joseph DeGrandis, 3890 Victory Boulevard,
Staten Island.
The Chairman. Are you a businessman ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Are you a labor union official?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honest-
ly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Do you have counsel present?
Mr. DeGrandis. Pardon?
The Chairman. Do you have counsel present ?
Mr. DeGrandis. Yes.
The Chairman. Counsel, identify yourself for the record.
Mr. Allder. My name is Harry Clifford Allder, a member of the
bar of Washington, D.C.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. DeGrandis, Mr. Chairman, is the president of
the Automatic Coin and Vending Machine Employees Union, Local
266, of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.
Is that correct ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to our information, the first time that
you got into the labor movement was when you received a charter
from the Retail Clerks Union, and that was on February 25,
1954.
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. IvENNEDY. You received charter 413, Amusement and Conces-
sionnaires Local 413 of the RCIA, which had a membership of nine
in March of 1954, 25 in April and May. According to our informa-
tion, your organizational work was confined to an attempt to organ-
ize the employees of the Willow Brook State School on Staten Is-
land, where your wife was employed as an attendant; is that right?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You were the president of that union, and the lo-
cal's address was your home ; is that right ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestlj
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Ivennedy. The Retail Clerks International Union picked up
the charter of this local on March 5, 1957.
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe ray answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the testimony before the committee
by the representatives of the Retail Clerks, they went in to get what-
ever records there were, membership cards, and they found two items
in the local, and one was a gun and one was a billy.
3GT51-
16878 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Here you are, Mr. DeGrandis, head of this union,
and you finally obtain an office and when the international union
goes in to take over the books and records, all they find is a club and
a gun.
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
(At this point Senator Ervin left the hearing room. )
The Chairman. Did you ever keep any records ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Did you have a typewriter ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Did you have any other office equipment other than
the gun and the club ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is that all of the instruments you need for union
organization ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. That was perhaps a mark in your favor, as far as
your later employment. But also you had had the additional fact
that you had been arrested four times and convicted twice. In 1939
for criminally receiving stolen property, where you were convicted
and sentenced to 21/2 to 5 years, and then subsequently you were
convicted.
Well, I believe you were convicted in 1939 for operating a still,
making arrangements for the operation of a still, and received a
sentence in Atlanta for a year and a day in the Federal penitentiary
there.
You finally got out of jail on April 1, 1944.
Is that right?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. According to our information, you left school at the
eighth grade, in 1920, and got into these difficulties. You were em-
ployed as a painter and a shipyard worker, a laundry routeman, a
truck driver, and a restaurateur.
You served in the Navy from 1923 to 1924. You were also known as
Joseph Russo and Joseph Angelo, and also as "Bull," is that right?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. With this background of convictions and the fact
that another international union with a good reputation had moved in
and taken over your operations and found this giui and this club, then
subsequently, within a couple of years, you were promoted and made
head of the Teamsters local union ; tliat right ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16879
Mr. Kennedy. And it was your local, wliich is backed by the under-
world in New York, where there is going to be this attempt, together
with the Jacob brothers, to take over the coin machine business in
New York City, is that right?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
jSlr. Kennedy. The other strategic spot in this field, in the Team-
sters Union, is local 805, and that is controlled by Miltie Holt, who
is a close associate and friend of Johnny Dioguardi's He is the one
who heads up local 805, which handles the cigarette machines in New
York City, and you handle the other coin machines, the main coin
machines, which are the jukeboxes and the amusement machines; is
that right?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it the point of tlie union not to help the em-
ployees, but in botli your cases it is the aim to give a monopoly to
certain favored operators? Isn't that right?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. And the union is financed by th&se label fees; is
that right? As of now, according to the international records, the
union has levSS than 100 members. Isn't it a fact that it is financed
at the present time by these label fees that you charge for?
]Mr. DeGraxdis. 1 respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. What official position do you hold in 266? Are
you president of it?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer
The Chairman. Is that correct?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
The Chairman. You are the president of local 266 ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairisian. Believing you are, I present to you some stickers
entitled "Vending Machines." It says "Teamsters." It has a wagon
wheel or something like that on it. It is local 266. They are num-
bered.
I will ask you to look at them, at the exhibit, and state if you identify
what they are.
(The documents were handed to the witness.)
Mr. Allder. "What is the question, Senator?
The Chairman. Do you identify them?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is there anything honest, decent, upright at all
about local 266 and you officers who belong to it ; anything at all ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Is that sticker incriminating; do you think?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
16880 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. The whole thing is designed as a racket, isn't it,
to extort money out of people?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. That particular badge of local 266 is the badge
of an extortion, is it not?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Make those stickers exhibit No. 38.
(Stickers referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 38" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, could I call Mr. Constandy to put
in the information that we have ?
The Chairman. Come forward, Mr. Constandy.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY— Resumed
Mr. Constandy. Pursuant to a subpena served on local 266, there
was furnished to the committee what purports to be the minutes of
local 266, a looseleaf binder and 100 pages of looseleaf paper, 98 of
which are blank. It reports one meeting which purportedly took
place on December 5, 1957, and gives the place of the meeting as 799
Coney Island Avenue, in Brooklyn ; 799 Coney Island Avenue is the
premises of the Empire Automatic Corp., which is an operating com-
pany of coin machines, and which is owned by Albert Koondel. Mr.
Koondel was one of the people whose names appear on the certificate
of incorporation of the United Coin Machine Operators. So he was
one of the founders of this association, and it was on his premises
that the first union meeting was held.
The minutes go on to reflect local 266 transactions for that ni«:ht.
The Chairman. The copy of those minutes may be made exhibit
No. 39 for reference.
(Minutes referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 39" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Constandy. I would first like to point out that included in the
items that were turned over to the committee by Mr. DeGrandis is
this slip of paper which bears the mark "Paid by the Novik Press,
Inc.," in New York. It is a receipt for the purchase of a ring binder
for $1.50 and 100 sheets of paper at 50 cents, for a total of $2. The
date of the minutes is December 5, 1957. So the minute book was
purchased some 5 to 6 months after the meeting was held.
Mr. Kennedy. What date does it show that the book was pur-
chased ?
Mr. Constandy. May 15, 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. And what date is the minutes in the book?
Mr. Constandy. December 5, 1957.
The Chairman. That slip, a copy of it, may be made exhibit No.
39A.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 39iV" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
Mr. Constandy. The first item of business was tliat Brother Sidney
Slater made a motion, seconded by Brother McGinley, to assess each
unit 65 cents. The motion was carried unanimously.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16881
Mr. Slater is the man about whom there has been testimony con-
cerning the repair of xVlbert Gallo's automobile. He is the one who
took it to the service station. That is in connection with United
Coin, which is the operators' association.
Mr. Kennedy. He works for the association ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct. He made the motion at the union
meeting to assess each unit 65 cents.
The Chairman. What do you mean by each miit? Is that each
coin machine?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Ycs. It would be each jukebox or game machine
wliich is on location.
The Chairman. To assess it 65 cents for what period of time?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Well, it only read this. The practice in the trade
is per month, and I think that that is borne out later on by the con-
tracts that were entered into by local 266.
The Chairman. Sixty-five cents a month?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Per machine, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. That is to finance the union, Mr. Chairman, which,
as we have stated, is made up of less than 100 members.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. The second item was discussion on salaries and em-
ployees, to be paid to the president and secretary-treasurer. It was
followed by a motion made by Brother Thomas McGinley that the
president and secretary-treasury be paid at the rate of $150 per week
for the year 1958, this to be increased $100 per week for the year
1959, any further increases to be brough before the membership.
It then reads that the salary for both the secretary and treasurer
would be $150 a week for 1958 and $250 a week for 1959.
The Chairman. Are you paying yourself that increase in salary
in 1959?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I hon-
estly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. CoNSTANDY. The next item empowers the president and secre-
tary-treasurer to sign checks up to the amount of $10,000.
The following item is to allow an expense amount of $100 per week
to the president and secretary-treasurer.
Tlie next provision is that a car be provided for the president and
secretary-treasury, each car not to exceed $5,000 in cost.
Each of these items were passed, incidentally, unanimously.
The Chairman. These are the only minutes of the meeting held
there?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. They are the only minutes that were delivered to
the committee. I don't know of any other minutes.
The Chairman. You sought to obtain all of them ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. We did.
The Chairman. Were you told this was all of the minutes?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. They were delivered to us as the minutes. I was
not personally present.
The Chairman. Tliat book was bought when ?
Mr. Constandy. The book was bought in May, May 15, 1958, and
pertain to the minutes of the meeting of December 5, 1957.
The Chairman. And it contains no minutes since ?
Mr. Constandy. No, it does not.
16882 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
There was a motion made and carried that the union initiate a
meeting with the United Coin Association for the purpose of entering
a contract.
I would again like to call your attention to the date. The date
of this meeting purports to be December 5, 1957, wliile the certificate
of incorporation filed by United Coin was filed on January 20, better
than 1 month and 15 days later.
The Chairman. There wasn't any such association in existence at
the time ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. There was no legal association in existence at this
time, at the time the minutes purport to represent.
There was a motion that dues be $5 per month per member, and an
initiation fee of $25, until the organizational drive was concluded, and
then increased to a sum to be fixed at a later date.
The chairman then announced that the time for special business had
come, and the election of officers for a term of 5 years, starting Janu-
ary 1, 1958. It then goes on to list the officers of the organization.
The Chairman. Who was elected president ?
Mr. Constandy. President was Joseph DeGrandis; vice president
was Joseph lovine.
The Chairman. DeGrandis — is that the witness we have before us
today ?
Mr. Constandy. That is correct.
The Chairman. He was elected president ?
Mr. Constandy. That is right.
The Chairman. Do you agree with that, that that is correct, that
you were elected president, and that you are now the president ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. You are not ashamed of the fact, are you ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Constandy.
Mr. Constandy. The balance of the minutes contain only two per-
tinent provisions. One of them is that the officers would be empowered
to obtain loans in order to conduct their planned membership drive;
and the second is, "As conditions at present are in a state of flux,
the membership agreed to leave it at the discretion of the president to
set the date for the next meeting within a period of 4 months."
The minutes are signed by Zundel, who had been elected secretary-
treasurer.
The Chairman. Well, there have been more than 4 months elapse
since then. Does it aj^pear that any meeting has ever been called?
]\Ir. Constandy. There is no indication that there was.
The Chairman. At least there are no minutes in the minute book
showing that a meeting was held.
Mr. Constandy. There are not.
There is one other item. In the checkbook stub of the account of
local No. 266, which, incidentally, is carried at 107 Constant Avenue,
which is the home of Mr. DeGrandis, located in Staten Island, while
the union office is in Manhattan, on 42d Stre-et, the account has an
entry between checks Nos. 10 and 11. The stub bears the date for
stub No. 10, of January 22, 1958, and beneath that balance, which is
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16883
$6.69, there is a deposit shown of $1,000, and penciled in red next to it
is the notation "New operation."
Mr. Kennedy. Have you some information on the AAMONY con-
tract that w^as sio^ned ?
Well, before I ask you about that, what do the records of the
international show as to the membership of this local ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Based only on the per capita tax that was paid by
the local, the records of the international show that in November 1957
the local paid per capita tax on 51 members. However, the f)er
capita tax payment was not made until January 9, 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have the per capita tax later on in 1958?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Ycs. I will just give this one for January 1958.
It again shows per capita tax being paid on 50 members.
The Chairjvian. January of 1958 they paid a tax on 50 members ?
]VIr. CoNSTANDY. That is correct.
The Chairman. That is local 266 ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Local 266.
The Chairman. Have you got it for this year ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. Yes, I have.
From October 1958, it is 125 members; November 1958, 135 mem-
bers; and December of 1958, 140 members. That is the most recent
that is available.
The Chairman. So it has 140 members ?
Mr. CoNSTANDY. As is indicated by the per capita tax payments,
yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is all they are reporting to the international
union.
Mr. Kennedy. According to the local's own records, what does it
show as the membership ?
Mr. Constandy. As of June 30, 1958, from the accounting by Mr.
Corfini of local 266 records, they had a membership of 53 members as
of that date, June 30, 1958.
Mr. Kennedy. The fact that they paid per capital tax on those
members does not necessarily mean they have that great a membership.
The Chairman. Well, that is the most they would have. I assume
that the international would try to see that they paid the tax on the
correct membership.
Senator Capehart. Are those employers or employees ?
The Chairman. Both.
That represents both employers and employees ?
Mr. Constandy. Yes, that represents employees. However, im
eluded among them are self-employed operators that are both em-
ployers and their own employees.
Mr. Kennedy. It represents both, then, employees and employers?
Mr. Constandy. Yes.
Mr. I^NNEDY. I want to ask about who signed the AAMONY
contract.
Mr. Constandy. We have a contract entered into the 28th day of
January 1958. That is the one that was referred to earlier. It is
betw^een the United Coin Machine Operators of New York, Inc., and
the Automatic Coin Vending Machine Emploj^ees, Local 266. This
contract was signed by Eugene Jacobs, as president of United Coin,
and by Joseph DeGrandis, president of 266.
16884 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
I call your attention to the fact that the contract contains within
the center fold, the second contract which provides for the payment
to the union by the employer of the charge for the labels for each of
the machines on location by the employer.
In the case of this contract signed with United Coin, that portion
of the contract has not been signed.
The Chairman. This contract may be made exhibit 40, for refer-
ence only.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 40" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
Mr. CoNSTANDY. The significance is that the contract entered into
the 15th day of May 1958, between the Associated Amusement Ma-
chine Operators of New York and local 266, which is signed by Mr.
DeGrandis as president of local 266, and by Sanford Warner, as
president of the Associated Amusement Machine Operators of New
York who, incidentally, is a member of the union himself — and while
a member of the union he is still president of the operators' associa-
tion and entered into a contract — the center fold portion of this con-
tract, which again makes provision for payment to the union by the
employer of the lable charge, which is $7.80 per year per machine on
location, we find that the contract in this case has been signed and
ratified by both parties to the original collective bargaining agreement.
That wasn't the case with United Coin.
The Chairman. This last contract the witness testified to may be
made exhibit No. 41 for reference.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 41" for reference
and may be found in the files of the select committee. )
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I might point out that this contract
shows the fiction of the label fees supposedly being paid by the em-
ployee, because even in the contract, this contract, it shows that the
employer is making these payments to the union which, of course,
per se, under the Taft-Hartley Act, would be illegal. Yet it is written
into the contract.
Can you tell us anything about the pickets being sent out to the
Caruso Kestaurant, Mr. DeGrandis ?
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH DeGRANDIS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
HARRY CLIITORD ALLDER— Resumed
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. This was an effort on behalf of Mr. Jacob to make
Caruso's Kestaurant keep his box in there so that they would not
switch and bring in their own box ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. This is an employer-operated and dominated and
controlled union, is it not, Mr. DeGrandis ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Behind your efforts and the efforts of the employers
which control the union, it is ultimately in the background of the
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16885
underworld characters of New York City to attempt to gain this
control, is that ri^rht ?
Mr. DeGrandis. I respectfully decline to answer because I honestly
believe my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. All right. You may stand aside.
The committee will stand in recess until 10 : 30 tomorrow morning.
(Members of the select committee present at time of recess: Sena-
tors McClellan and Capehart. )
("Whereupon, at 4: 12 p.m. the select committee recessed, to recon-
vene at 10 : 30 a.m., Wednesday, February 18, 1959.)
INVESTIGATION OF OIPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 1959
UxiTED States Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities
IN the Labor or ]SL\nagement Field,
Washington^ D.C.
The select committee met at 10 : 30 a.m., pursuant to Senate Reso-
lution 44, agreed to February 2, 1950, in the caucus room, Senate Office
Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select com-
mittee) presiding.
Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Senator
Sam J. Ervin, Jr., Democrat, North Carolina; Senator Carl T. Curtis,
Republican, Nebraska.
Also present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; John P. Con-
standy, assistant counsel ; Arthur G. Kaplan, assistant counsel ; Wal-
ter R. May, investigator; Sherman S. Willse, investigator; Walter
de Vaughn, investigator; Ruth Y. Watt, chief clerk.
The CnAiR:srAX. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the select committee present at the convening of the
session were Senators McClellan and Ervin.)
The Chairman. Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this morning we are going into a new
phase of the investigation, which involves New York City. It is in
connection with the loading or factoring companies, and the first wit-
ness I would like to call in that connection is Mr. Charles Bernoff.
The Chairman. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Bernoff, I do.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES BERNOFF, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JACOB W. FRIEDMAN AND ABRAHAM POLLOCK
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation.
Mr. Bernoff. Charles Bernoff, 666 West End Avenue, New York.
I am in the jukebox business.
The CriAiR:MAN. Do you have counsel, Mr. Bernoff ?
Mr. Bernoff. I do.
The Chairman. Counsel, will you identify yourself, please.
Mr. Friedman. Jacob W. Friedman, 170 Broadway, New York.
16887
16888 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Pollock. Abraham Pollock, 450 Seventh Avenue, New York.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bernoff, you served as vice president of the
Automatic Music Operators Association, known now as the Music
Operators of New York ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. You are president and sole stockholder of the Regal
Music Co., Inc. ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
previously stated.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mr. Bernoff, you have rmi and operated a fac-
toring company which makes loans? is that right?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same giound
previously stated.
Mr. Kj:nnedy. Now you are the third largest jukebox operator in
New York City, are you not ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
previously stated.
The Chairman. State your grounds, please.
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that I
sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Miniacci, who is Mr. Frank Costello's friend,
is No. 1 ; Mr. Breheney, about whom we have had testimony, is No. 2 ;
and you are No. 3 ; is that not correct ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
as previously stated.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, in order to expedite the hearings, I
would like to put the information that we have regarding Mr. Bern-
off's background which leads up to the important situations that we
will be going into this morning, and I would like to call a member
-of the staff as a witness.
The Chairman. All right.
Will you come around, please. Mr. Bernoff will remain on the wit-
ness stand and hear this testimony and the information we have
against the witness, and his actions and conduct. He will be given
the opportunity to deny it if he wants to deny it or if he wants to
leave the record that he can't answer with respect to it except at the
risk of possible self-incrimination, then, of course, he can leave the
record that way.
All right, bring around your testimony.
Has this witness been sworn ?
Mr. Kennedy. No, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn ?
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this
Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. WiLLSE. I do.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16889
TESTIMONY OF SHERMAN S. WILLSE
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
present employment.
Mr. WiLLSE. My name is Sherman Willse. I reside in Long Island,
New York City, and I am a member of the staif of this committee.
The Chairman. Plow long have you been a member of the staff,
Mr. Willse?
Mr. Willse. Since June 4, 1957.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Let us get from Mr. Willse the background of Mr.
Bernoff.
First, the businesses which Mr. Bernoff is interested in; would you
give us that?
Mr. Willse. At the present time, Charles Bernoff is president of
the Regal Music Co., Inc., operators of jukeboxes and game machines.
He is also secretary-treasurer and a director of the Admiral Trading
Corp., which is the factoring operation.
Mr. Kennedy. The factoring operation is a group that makes loans ;
is that correct ?
Mr. Willse. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. He has also had an interest in the Belmont Factors,
Inc.?
Mr. Willse. Yes, from 1949 to 1956, which was also a factoring com-
pany making the same type of loans as the Admiral Trading Corp.
Mr. Kennedy. And the Vernon Hills Estates, Inc.
Mr. Willse. Yes ; that was chartered in 1950, and it was engaged in
the construction of private homes and real estate holdings, and it
has been reported dormant since 1957.
Mr. Kennedy. And the Broad Street Hickory Grill Corp. ?
Mr. Willse. That was an operation of a bar and grill on Broad
Street, Newark.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Chairman, we have an index to the various
people who will be mentioned this morning, and it is rather an in-
volved hearing and it gets into a great number of names. So we
have made up an index that gives a little bit of background on each
individual we will mention.
Could we have that placed in the record ?
The Chairman. Have you prepared this list ?
Mr. Willse. I did, sir.
The Chairman. Have you checked the information that you give
after each name ?
Mr. Willse. I have.
The Chairman. For the information of the committee and for ref-
erence, this list may be made exhibit No. 42.
(List referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 42" for reference and
may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chair]man. All right, Mr. Kennedy, you may proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, I want to trace with you, Mr. Willse, the es-
tablisliment of the jukebox business and the establishment of these
factoring companies, and what do we find as the background of this
jukebox distributorship that is owned and operated by Mr. Bernoff?
16890 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. WiLLSE. From our information, back during prohibition, th&
brother of Charles Bernoff, known as Jacob Bernoff or Jewey Cohen,
with Dutch Goldberg, who has aliases of Henry Shomber^ and Louie
Pops; and Abraham Lichtenstein, better known as Augie, were en-
gaged in a beer distributing business at the location very close to where
the Regal Music Co., Inc., now is situated.
Mr, Kennedy. That is L-i-c-h-t-e-n-s-t-e-i-n; is that right?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And is also known as Augie ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes. At that time, Jacob Bernoff and Augie Lichten-
stein were close associates of Dutch Schultz. They were handling
his beer in the distribution and getting it from the Yonkers Brewery,
which was run by Schultz.
With repeal they continued the distribution of beer through legiti-
mate companies for some period of time, and then finally the jukebox
operation was started.
Mr. Kennedy. At the same location ?
Mr. WiLLSE. In that same neighborhood.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it the same place ?
Mr. WiLLSE. That I can't say. It was around the comer, I believe.
Mr. Kennedy. And what was the name of that company ?
Mr. WiLLSE. The New Yorker Beer Co.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the jukebox operation called ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Well, subsequently it came to be known as the Greater
New York Amusement Co.
Mr. Kennedy. Prior to that it was known as the New Yorker Beer
Co.?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. They were distributing jukeboxes ?
Mr. Willse. The Greater New York Amusement Co.
Mr. Kennedy. What was the New Yorker Beer Co. ? It was han-
dling the beer, and then they changed and became the Greater New
York Amusement Corp., which was operating jukeboxes ; is that right ?
Mr. Willse. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. You mentioned Dutch Goldberg. "Who was Dutch
Goldberir?
Mr. Willse. He was a top mobster in New York connected with
Dutch Schultz, and eventually the Lepke-Gurrah mob in the garment
industry.
He lias been arrested three times — grand larceny, homicide with
dangerous weapon, and homicide.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he have any convictions ?
Mr. Willse. We don't have any convictions.
Mr. Kennedy. Who were his associates ?
Mr. WiiJLSE. His associates were Jacob Bernoff, Augie Lichten-
stein, find others connected with the Dutch Schultz mob.
Mr. Kennedy. And Abe Chait ?
Mr. Willse. I believe he was.
Mr. Kennedy. And Joe Adonis ?
Mr. Willse. Yes ; all of those.
Mr. Kennedy. And Frank Costello ?
Mr. Willse. The top mobsters in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. And Meyer Lansky, also ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16891
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. ^\Tiat is his present occupation ?
Mr. WiLLSE. I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. He is a big influence in the garment industry?
Mr. WiLLSE. That is our information ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. On July 21, 1937, the Greater New York Amuse-
ment Co. had, according to our information, jukeboxes on a contract
basis with approximately 100 bars and grills in New York City.
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That was then bought out and registered in the
name of the Regal Music Co., Inc. ; is that right ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes ; on August 31, 1937.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Who were the ones who formed the Regal Music
Co., Inc.?
Mr. WiLLSE. Charles Bernoff, Lillian Gabaeff, and Jean Taylor.
Mr. Kennedy. Lillian and Jean were there for their husbands; is
that right?
Mr. Willis. That is right — for Murray Gabaeff and Edward
Taylor.
]\Ir. Kennedy. "Wlio was Edward Taylor ?
Mr. AViLLSE. Edward Taylor, at the time of the formation of Regal
Music Co., Inc., had several arrests, as did Gabaeff. His record at
the present time consists of nine arrests. He has been connected with
the operations of the Lepke-Gurrah mob, and Jacob Bernoff, who
was one of the principals in that gang, and he was convicted with
Gabaeff and Bernoff and Lichtenstein in a milk extortion racket in
1941.
Mr. Ivennedy. He has also been convicted of conspiracy, and he has
been convicted of a conspiracy and extortion which I believe is the
one you just mentioned ; is that right ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Those tw^o conspiracies, the first one was also a milk
racket, and the second one was a racket where they extorted $2.5
million in 5 years, in collusion with the Teamster officials of two locals
in the area, in which they threatened to stop the delivery of milk in
the metropolitan area.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money were they supposed to have gotten
out of that?
Mr. WiLLSE. I believe it was $2.5 million.
Mr. Kennedy. Also involved in that was Jacob Bernoff ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Jacob Bernoff is the brother of Charles Bernoff.
Mr. Willse. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And also Augie Lichtenstein, who was mentioned
earlier ?
Mr. Willse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. They were all convicted, were they ?
Mr. Willse. They were.
Mr. Kennedy. As well as some Teamster officials ?
Mr. Willse. Yes ; except that Lichtenstein's conviction was subse-
quently reversed.
Mr. Kennedy. "\Yho was Gabaeff ?
Mr. Willse. iMurray Gabaeff lias a record of four arrests, and he
was one of the starters of the jukebox operation along with Bernoff,
16892 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Jacob Bernoff, Taylor, and Lichtenstein. He is well known as a
labor racketeer, along with the others.
Mr. Kennedy. How many convictions does he have ?
Mr. WiLLSE. He has two convictions, and one for coercion and con-
spiracy, which is in connection with the milk racket of 1935, with
Edward Taylor; and then the 1941 conspiracy and extortion, and he
got 7y2 to 15 in the State prison, and that was again with Taylor,
and also the one in which Lichtenstein and Jewey Bernoff were in-
volved.
Mr. Kennedy. What about Jewey Bernoff ; what is his background,
this witness's brother ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Well, for years he has been regarded as one of the
top associates of both Dutch Schultz and the Lepke-Gurrah mob. That
is Louis Buchalter and Jacob Shapiro, who were the starters or orig-
inators of extortion and terrorizing in the garment area.
Jacob Bernoff, aside from his association with them, has been
closely connected with many of the leading mobsters, particularly in
the New York area ; back as far as 1936 he was arrested with two men,
one of them George Uffner who, through the years, has been very
closely associated with Frank Costello.
Mr. Kennedy. He is a major racket figure in New York City; is
that right?
Mr. WiLLSE, He is.
Mr. Kennedy. He died in prison last year ?
Mr. Willse. He died, I believe, in February of 1958, while serving a
sentence on a Federal narcotics conspiracy.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been convicted nine times ?
Mr. WiLLSE. He has had 12 arrests, and I don't have the convic-
tions enumerated here.
Mr. Kennedy. I believe that is there.
Mr. Willse. It is true — nine times.
The Chairman. Mr. Counsel, this list has been made an exhibit.
It is now in evidence. It can be referred to from time to time as you
interrogate witnesses. I do not know whether you want to go over
all of it at this time or not.
Mr. Kennedy. Jacob Bernoff was also indicted in connection with
the candy kickback racket ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes. He was not indicted at that time. He was
picked up for violation of parole in connection with it, and he was
the head of the racket. He had set up a woman in Local 1115-C,
Amusement Clerks and Concessionaire Employees Union, AFL, which
was composed of 1,000 members.
They operated in this way : There were 17 charge men from whom
they extorted money. The charge man operated the candy counter
concession in grind movies, which are movies that play almost 24
hours a day. The grind men, in turn, had their aisle salesmen.
In some cases, the grind men had to kick back as much as 60 percent
of their gross sales. The woman who Jake Bernoff said was his
front in the union put the names of persons on the book of the union
book who weren't actually members of the union. JNIost of them
existed. In fact, there were 50 of them who were known bookmakers
and gamblers and they willingly allowed their names to be used as they
could use their names, in turn, as employment, if they were picked
up for vagrancy or some other charge.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16893^
Mr. Kennedy. These were the people who were the originators and
the starters of this juke box operation '{
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. At the same time, early in 1940, did Mr. Cliarles
Bernoff, with the help and assistance of certain other individuals,
bej^in loaning money out on a more intensified basis ?
Mr. Wielse. Yes, in the early 194()'s.
Mr, Kennedy. ^Aliat companies were formed in order to handle
that?
Mr. WiLLSE. Well, the legitimate operations were the Regal Amuse-
ment Corp., which was started on June 6 of 1947 for the purpose of
handling slot machines, cigarette machines, automatic vending
machines and amusement macliines and devices, was then changed in
June of 1948 to the Admiral Trading Corp.
They changed the name and changed the oi)eration. The Admiral
Trading Corp. was being used as a factoring company to make loans.
Mr. Kenn1':dy. "VYlio was treasurer of this Admiral Trading Corp.
Mr. Willse. Actually, the treasurer was Helen Mishel. She was
acting as a front for Irving Mishel.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the president?
Mr. WiLLSE. Bernard Linn was the president.
Mr. Kennedy. L-i-n-n; is that right?
Mr. WiLLSE. Right.
Mr. Kennedy. And Charles Bernojff was the secretary-treasurer and
a director; is that right?
Mr. Willse. Correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And they made loans, did they not ?
Mr. WiLLSE. They made loans mainly to locations where their juke-
boxes and game machines were placed.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we have information that they also were making
loans to major racketeers and hoodlums ?
Mr. Willse. We have.
Mr. Kennedy. That gives just the brief background, Mr. Chair-
man. Now I would like to call another witness in connection with
the loans that were made.
I would like to have Mr. Bernoff step down and call another wit-
ness in his place.
The Chairman. Just a moment.
Do you want to make any comments on this testimony so far ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same grounds
previously stated.
The Chairman. You think if you discussed it, it might incriminate
you?
Mr. Bernoff. It may.
The Chairman. All right. Stand aside for the present.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Irving Mishel.
The Chairman. Come forward, please.
Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Sen-
ate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
INIr. MisiTEL. I do, sir.
36751 — 59— pt. 46— 28
16894 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
TESTIMONY OF IRVING MISHEL
The Chairman. State your name, your place of residence, and your
business or occupation, please.
Mr. MiSHEL. Irving Mishel, Forest Hills, N. Y. ; finance business.
The Chairman. You have counsel, do you, Mr. Mishel?
Mr. ]\IiSHEL. I do, sir, but he is not here right now.
The Chairman. Where is your counsel ? Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. I asked if you had counsel. I meant do you have
counsel present here today?
Mr. Mishel. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you waive counsel ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. KjiNNEDY. Mr. Mishel's testimony is of considerable impor-
tance, Mr. Chairman, in developing the facts that we are interested
in today. Mr. Mishel does not have a good background. In fact, he
is in prison at the present time. Often, as you know, it is important,
in order to obtain information, if we are going to obtain information,
to obtain it from people who we would not ordinarily want to depend
upon as far as their reliability and veracity.
However, we have spent a considerable amount of time with Mr.
Mishel. In addition to giving us the information, he has fiirnislied
us certain books and records and papers. "VVe have found that the
testimony or the information that he has given us we have been able
to verify through independent means.
It was only after this long and tedious investigation and spending
a great deal of time with Mr. Mishel that a decision was reached that
we could use him today and have him testify.
We will call a witness shortly who will go into detail into some of
the matters that Mr. Mishel is going to testify to.
The Chairman. All right, proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. You were born in Brooklyn in May of 1922, Mr.
Mishel ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were left an orphan at the age of 5, and raised
by an aunt and an uncle ; is that right ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You attended high school for a while ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You were the youngest of five children ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you were married in 1945 ; is that right ?
Mr. Mishel. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. You have two children ; is that right ?
Mr. Mishel. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy, On March 6, 1945, you received a suspended sentence ;
is that right?
Mr. INIiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That was your first conviction ?
Mr. Mishel. I believe so.
Mr, Kennedy. What was that for? Wliat was that in connection
with?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16895
Mr. MisiiEL. I believe it was something to do with the Sullivan law,
a blackjack.
Mr, Kennedy. You hit somebody with a blackjack ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And then there was a conspiracy charge made against
you in May of 1945, and you were discharged. Then in October of
1952 you were indicted, or there was a warrant issued against you in
Connecticut ; is that right ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What was that in connection with ?
Mr. Misiiel. In connection with a bank loan. I tried to secure
some money from a bank.
Mr. Kennedy. In what way ?
Mr. MiSHEL. By giving them some statements which were fraudu-
lent.
Mr. Kennedy. And that is still outstanding, is it ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then in January 1951 you were indicted for forg-
ing and transporting stolen bonds ; is that right ?
Mr. Mishel, Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Let me see. On January 19, 1953, you received a
sentence of 10 to 20 years in the general sessions court in New York
County ?
Mr. Mishel. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that in connection with the stolen bonds ?
Mr. Mishel. No. Those were stock certificates.
]\Ir. Kennedy. What had you done with the stock certificates?
Mr. Mishel. Hypothecated them, tried them, put them through
some bank.
Mr. Kennedy, What about the transportation of the stolen bonds?
"What happened about that that case? Did you plead guilty to that?
Mr. Mishel. Was that in the western district of Virginia?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. And I understand also in New York City.
Mr. MisECEL. There were two cases.
Mr. Kennedy. The western district of Virginia and in New York
City?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. There was two different ones.
Mr. Kennedy. You pled guilty to that, did you ?
Mr. Mishel. On the one in western Virginia, I pled guilty in New
York under rule 20 to cover Virginia.
Mr. Kennedy. And you received a sentence?
Mr. Mishel. Of 5 years.
Mr. Kennedy. Of 5 yeai-s?
Mr. Mishel. Correct.
Mr. Kennedy. What happened on that case? Do you still have to
serve that ?
Mr. Mishel. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. "\Vliat happened ?
Mr. Mishel. Subsequently that sentence was set aside and I re-
ceived 1 day's probation.
Mr. Kennedy, Was that because of your cooperation in certain
■cases ?
Mr, Mishel. Yes, sir.
16896 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
, Mr. Kennedy. Or in connection with cooperation that you rendered
in certain Federal cases?
Mr. MisHEL. Certain cases.
Mr. Kennedy. How much have yo^^ served in your 10 to 20 years ?
Mr. MisHEL. Six years three months.
Mr. Kennedy. One of those who testified against you and one of
those chiefly responsible for your receiving the sentence and being
found guilty was Mr. Charles Bernoff ; is that right ?
Mr. MisHEL. He was the main one.
Mr. Kennedy. He w^as the main witness against you ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You had long been a friend and associate of Mr.
Bernoff ; is that right ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you had been a close friend and had worked
with him for a number of years?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do you mean this same Bernoff that was the witness
here wlio takes the fifth amendment on everything is the one who
prosecuted you ?
Mr. MiSHEL. He testified against me.
The Chairman. He testified against you ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. He didn't take the fifth then ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I don't think he did. I got the time.
The Chairman. If we send anybody around to investigate him a
little, he takes the fifth amendment.
All right. Proceed. I just wanted to keep the thing in balance
as we go along.
Mr. Kennedy. The people found guilty with you were Louis
Blumenthal ?
Mr. Mishel. One-arm Louie ; yes.
Mr. Kennedy. He was found guilty of conspiracy. Harrv
Gottleib?
Mr. MiSHEL. Harry the Hawk, are you talking about ?
Mr. Kennedy. Harry the Hawk. Is he prominent in drugs also ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. He has been convicted many times.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat about Blumenthal? Is he a bookmaker?
Mr. MisHEL. Well, bookmaker and I understand he was convicted
for either narcotics or gambling besides.
Mr. Kennedy. And Sonya Lang ?
Mr. Mishel. Sonya Lang.
Mr. Kennedy. What is she ?
Mr. Mishel. She was living with Harry the Hawk. I don't know
too much about her.
Mr. Kennedy. She was found guilty of conspiracy. Irving Rosen-
berg— who is he?
Mr. Mishel. Cockeyed Mickey ?
Mr. Kennedy. Cockeyed Mickey. Wliat about him? He was
found guilty also in this case ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir. I believe they all pleaded guilty, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Fred Schatzberg, he was found guilty?
Mr. MisiiEi.. He pleaded guilty.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16897
Mr, Kennedy, What is his name?
Mr, MisiiEL, Fat Freddy.
The Chairman. Fat Fredd;^?
Mr, MisHEL. Yes, sir. He is a heavy-set boy.
Mr. Kennedy. Aiid Samuel Friedman ?
Mr. MisHEL. Sam Friedman?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes. He was found guilty. And then Irving
Nitzberg.
Mr. MisHEL. Knadles.
Mr. Kennedy. How do you spell that?
Mr, MisHEL, I think it is K-n-a-d-1-e-s,
Mr, Kennedy. He was found guilty of attempted grand larceny
in the second degi-ee; is that right?
Mr. MisHEL, Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy, He is a close associate of yours? He was the
closest to you, Knadles?
Mr, MisHEL, Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy, Could you give us a little about his background ?
He is somebody you had gi^own up with and were in business with a
number of times?
Mr, MisHEL, Yes, sir,
Mr. Kennedy, You were loaning money together, you and
Knadles?
Mr, Mishel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Is Knadles the one who has been in the deatliliouse
at Sing Sing twice ?
Mr. Mishel. That is the same man ; yes, sir,
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat is his background ? What happened as far
as Sing Sing is concerned? How did he get out of there?
Mr, Mishel, I believe that there was no cooperation. The co-
defendants' testimony was not binding,
Mr, Kennedy, Then the chief witness was thrown out the window ?
Mr, Mishel, Yes ; that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. AbeReles?
Mr. Mishel. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. So the Government had to dismiss the case ?
Mr. Mishel. The State.
Mr. Kennedy. And he was also considered to be responsible for
killing Plug Shuman ?
Mr. Mishel. That I don't know, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You don't know whether he killed him or not ?
Mr. Mishel. I don't.
Mr, Kennedy. Shuman, I guess. S-h-u-m-a-n, I guess. Did you
know Plug Shuman ? Did you know him ?
Mr. Mishel, No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy, He is the one that is supposed to have squealed on
the Lepke-Gurrah mob,
Mr, Mishel, I don't know,
Mr, Kennedy. Wliat does Knables stand for?
Mr. Mishel. That is the Jewish word, I think, for matzo balls.
Mr. Kennedy. He is still active ; is he ?
Mr, Mishel. Yes, sir ; I believe so.
Mr. Kennedy. He is in the garment area ?
16898 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. He is an active figure there, is he not, at the present
time?
You had been the principal in a number of companies, had you not?
You had set up a number of companies during your career ?
Mr. MisHEL Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Berkshire Wine & Liquor Store, Mishel Wine &
Liquor Corp. Then you were in the Admiral Trading Corp., Bel-
mont Factors ?
Mr. Mishel. I was never in Admiral Trading. My wife was in it.
Mr. Kennedy. You were in it through your wife ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. My wife was.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Belmont Factors ?
Mr. Mishel. No, I was not.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have anything to do with them ?
Mr. Mishel. Well, the same people that were in with us were in
Belmont Factors.
Mr. Kennedy. Zenith Associates?
Mr. Mishel Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mishel Associates?
Mr. Mishel Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Lexington Business Brokers ?
Mr. Mishel Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And Mac Jay Realtors Corp.
Mr. Mishel Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What was your primary source of income as you
were growing up ?
Mr. Mishel. Bookmaking.
Mr. Kennedy. In the Mishel Associates, who was your partner in
that?
Mr. Mishel. A fellow named Charles Anthony Joseph McLaughlin.
Mr. Kennedy. What is his background ?
Mr. Mishel. Well, I think he has one conviction for highjacking.
Mr. Kennedy. He is the husband of Catherine McLaughlin?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. Kitty is the wife.
Mr. Kennedy. She had been married to Legs Diamond?
Mr. Mishel. I believe that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Mishel Associates was also making loans?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, small loans.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio would those loans go to? Tavern owners?
Mr. Mishel. Mostly tavern owners.
Mr. Kennedy. What about the Herald Capital ?
Mr. Mishel. Herald Capital Corp. ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. Mishel. That was a money-lending corporation.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you in there, too ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. Joseph Paige and myself.
Mr. Kennedy. P-a-i-g-e?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. He is a lawyer.
Mr. Kennedy. What is his background?
Mr. Mishel. He is a lawyer.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat else is there about him ?
Mr. MiSTTETi. I understand he was arrested out in Queens for con-
spiracy to rob a safe.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16899
Mr, I^NNEDY. Is there anything else about him ? Did Jewey Bem-
off have an interest in that company ?
Mr. MispiEL. Charlie and Jewey were partners of ours.
Mr. Kennedy. And that was loaning money to these taverns?
Mr. MisiiEL. Not only that. We were lending other people besides
taverns.
Mr. Kennedy. How about the Lee-Craw Co. ?
Mr. MisiiEL. Lee-Craw was a company that we were importing and
exporting electrical appliances.
Mr. Kennedy. Who were you in that company with ?
Mr. Mishel. William Cooper, Bill Cooper.
Mr. IvENNEDY. Who is William Cooper?
Mr. MisHEL, Bill is some fellow I met through Charlie and Jacob
Bernoff.
Mr. Kennedy. What was his background? I want to get these
backgrounds into the record. When I ask what their background is,
you know what their background is, so will you go ahead and we will
go ahead to the next question.
What is William Cooper's background?
Mr. MisHEL. Well, I think he w^as arrested for using the mails to
defraud.
Mr. Kennedy. He got 5 years for that ?
Mr. Mishel. I believe so.
Mr. EJENNEDY. Then his brother is who ?
Mr. Mishel. Caiman Cooper.
Mr. Kennedy. Wlio is he ?
Mr. Mishel. He was one of the Reader's Digest killers who went
to the chair.
Mr. Kennedy. His brother had gone to the electric chair ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. In about 1940, you became associated with Charlie
Bernoff?
Mr. Mishel. In the early 1940's.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to get associated with him?
Would you relate that to the committee?
Mr. Mishel. Well, I know Charlie through Murray Gabaeff's son,
Jackie Gabaeff.
Mr. Kennedy. "Wlio was Murray Gabaeff?
Mr. Mishel. Murray Gabaeff and Charlie and Jewey and Augie
are partners.
Mr. Kennedy. Murray Gabaeff and Jewey had been sentenced in
the milk extortion racket?
Mr. IMishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And you knew them, you had been brought up in the
neighborhood with them ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. So you had made a considerable amount of money
from bookmaking in your early teens or late teens ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he suggest at that time, Charlie Bernoff, that you
start loaning money ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir,
Mr. Kennedy. Would you relate to the committee what you did
when you went in and started loaning money ?
16900 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
- Mr. MiSHEL. I lent cash.
Mr. Kennedy. You started loaning cash?
Mr. MiSHEL. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Was it shylocking ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Well, I consider it shylocking.
Mr. Kennedy. How do yon describe shylocking?
Mr. Mishel. Well, if you lend somebody money at illegal rates of
interest.
Mr. Kennedy. That is shylocking? How would you arrange that?
Mr. Mishel. Well, if somebody, a bookmaker or somebody wanted
$10,000, w© would lend him $10,000 for $12,000 ; $1,000 a week for 12
weeks.
Mr. Kennedy. He would have to repay you in a period of 12 weeks.
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You would advance him $10,000 in cash, and he
would pay you $12,000 back in the course of 12 weeks?
Mr. Mishel. That is correct, sir.
Mr. KJENNEDY. And you went actively into this business; is that
right?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you also loaning money to taverns?
Mr. Mishel. Here and there ; not too much.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he suggest at that time that you get into the
coin-operating machine business, jukeboxes?
Mr. Mishel. In the cigarette machine business.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he in the cigarette machine business ?
Mr. Mishel. I think he had some machines.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you go to work in the cigarette machine
business ?
Mr. Mishel. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you invest in some company ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Kennedy. How much did you invest ?
Mr. Mishel. I can't be sure.
Mr. Kennedy. Approximately how much did you invest ?
Mr. Mishel. Between $15,000 and $20,000.
Mr. Kennedy. What company did you invest it in ?
Mr. Mishel. Aaron Garsh has a cigarette place. I think it is
called Supreme Cigarette Service, up in New Rochelle, N.Y.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat did you do for them ?
Mr. Mishel. I became a collector, servicing the cigarette machines,
filled the cigarettes.
Mr. Kennedy. You traveled around ?
Mr. Mishel. Well, I took care of part of a route.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find you were able to pick up a little extra
money that way?
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. How would you do that?
Mr. Mishel, Well, we used to do it by clipping the pennies.
Mr. Kennedy. How would you clip the pennies?
Mr. Mishel. You would knock them out of the cigarette packs.
Mr. Kennedy. You would take a penny out of every cigarette
pack ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16901
Mr. MisHEL. Not every one, but practically.
Mr. Kf.nxedy. "N^Hien would you take them out?
Mr. MisHEi.. We would take them out before we put them into the
cigarette machines. Fellows, when they buy cigarettes at 3 or 4
in the morning are mostly drunks. They don't worry.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have a bucket ?
Mr. MisHEL. We would use a half case of cigarettes, and throw them
in. It used to pay for the gas and oil of the car ; it paid those.
Mr. Kennedy. What methods did you use to get the machines
established; that is, to get the machines set up in these locations?
Mr. MisHEL. Well, lend them money.
Mr. Kennedy. Would that be a legitimate loan?
Mr. MisHEL. Well, sometimes legitimate; sometimes illegitimate.
It is according.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you would tell them that you would fore-
close on them unless they kept your machine in there ?
Mr. MisHEL. Well, if Charlie had the jukebox in there and they
wanted to throw his box out, tell them, "We will foreclose on you.
If you throw his box out, you go out of business."
Mr. Kennedy. Did you get some machines from Joe Adonis ?
Mr.MisHEL. Did I get? No, sir.
INIr. Kennedy. Did the company buy some machines from Joe
Adonis ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I believe that Harold Vending, that was the second
cigarette company I went to work for, bought some machines from
Joe.
Mr. Kennedy. That was around the bus terminal and the Todd
Shipyard ; in that area ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Most of them were in the Brooklyn area.
Mr. Kennedy. In Charlie Bernoff's company, had his brother,
Jewey Bernoff, and Gabaeff been around getting locations for him ?
Mr. MisHEL. Well, at one time Jewey wasn't ^here. He was in jaiL
Mr. Kennedy. Well, prior to that had they been ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Well, prior to that I don't know.
Mr. Kennedy. When they were in jail, had they been losing loca-
tions ?
IMr. MiSHEL. Yes. Charlie, I understand, went down to about 180-
190 jukeboxes.
Mr. Kennedy. From how manv? How many did he have prior
to that?
Mr. MisiiEL. About 400-and-some-odd.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he able to get them back, then ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes ; eventually he got them back.
Mr. Kennedy. How did he get them back ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Well, through me, through Knadles, through other
people.
Mr. Kennedy. How would you get them back ?
Mr. ]\IisHEL. Well, if they wouldn't give them the jukebox, if we
had a loan in the place, we would tell them we were going to foreclose.
Mr. Kennedy. And was Knadles and Jewey Bernoff well known
in that area ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes.
16902 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. And was it known about their racket connections
and the fact that they had certain terms themselves?
Mr. Michel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Was that a factor in o;etting these locations back ?
Mr. MisHEL. That was the main factor.
Mr. Kennedy. Were people scared of them ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I would say so.
Mr. Kennedy. Were they also known to have the backing of, for
instance, Hymie Segal ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I know that Jewey and Charlie were very friendly
with Hymie Segal.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is Hymie Segal ?
Mr. Mishel. I don't know too much about him personally.
Mr. Kennedy. He is known as a killer's killer ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I would say so.
Mr, Kennedy. He is a gunman, is he ?
Mr. MisHEL. I would say so.
Mr. Kennedy. He is one of those who was giving backing to this
company ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Max Courtney ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Courtney is a bookmaker.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat is Hymie Segal's other name ?
Mr. Mishel. I think they call him Red Hymie or Crazy Hymie,
either one or the other.
Mr. Kennedy. Is it also known that Meyer Lansky was close to this
group ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Very friendly with Charlie and Jewey, I know that.
Mr. KJENNEDY. You started your cash loaning businesses in about
1942-43; is that right?
Mr. Mishel. Some time around in there.
Mr. Kennedy. And was this the shylock operation that started
about that ?
Mr. Mishel. That w^as the cash business, the shylock.
Mr. Kennedy. And this continued until you went to prison ; is that
right?
Mr. Mishel. Well, just shortly before. About a year before.
Mr, Kennedy. And many millions of dollars were loaned ?
Mr. Mishel. Many, many, many.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you happen to set up the Admiral Trading
Corp. in 1947?
Mr, Mishel, Well, Charlie was sick and tired of lending people
money in the jukebox business without getting any interest on it, so
he had met Cockeye Mickey.
Mr. Kennedy. Mickey Rosenberg?
Mr. Mishel. Yes. They talked about getting a legitimate money-
lending operation going. So we opened the Admiral Trading Corp.
Mr. Kennedy. Who set that up for you ?
Mr. Mishel. Well, Joe Paige became the lawyer. I suggested that
Joe be the lawyer.
Mr, Kennedy. Ho is the attorney that you discussed earlier?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, And Charlie and T were the principals.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you have your wife fronting for you?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16903
Mr. ]\IisnEL. Yes. My wife fronted for me and Betty fronted for
Charlie.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you invest some money in it ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes, I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you get a line of credit, then, at a bank?
Mr. MisHEL. I think we ^ot a $300,000 unsecured line of credit at
the National Safety Bank & Trust Co.
Mr. Kennedy. You were able to get that by making gifts to two of
the bank officials?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes. We did make some gifts.
Mr. KENNEDY^ Considerable gifts?
Mr. MisHEL. AYell, one, I built him a porch on his house, and the
other I gave a brand new Cadillac.
Mr. Kennedy. Were you able to account for the money yourselves,
or did you have it put up in fictitious names ?
Mr. MisTiEL. Well, it seems I could account for some money through
my wife, where Charlie couldn't account for anything. So he got
people to put money in and we would give them the cash back.
Mr. Kennedy-. Did you get Benny Sugarman to put money in?
Mr. MiSHEL, I don't know who Charlie got to put the money in, but
there was some people.
Mr. Kennedy'. Did you know Benny Sugarman ?
Mr. MisHEL. No, I don't know Benny Sugarman at all.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Irving Krakower, $10,000 ?
Mr. IMiSHEL. Is that Buster?
Mr. Kennedy. 'Who is Buster Krakower?
Mr. ISIiSHEL. I know Buster Krakower. It probably is the same
person.
]\Ir. Kennedy. Who is he ?
Mr. MiSHEL. He is a money lender.
Mr. Kennedy. Has he got a record ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I don't know. Perhaps.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you proceed then to loan money not only through
this company, through the help and assistance of this company, but
through your shylocking operations in cash ? Did you proceed then
to loan money to some of the leading underworld figures in the north-
eastern section of the country ?
Mr. MisiiEL. I would say "Yes."
Mr. Kennedy. People who were involved in gambling, in prostitu-
tion, people who were involved in burglaries, people who had been
accused of murder ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And to some extent, there were individuals who re-
ceived money who were involved in narcotics ?
Mr. IMisHEL. That is where I drew the line.
Mr. Kennedy. But you know that some of this money went to them ?
Mr. Mishel. Now I 'know. But at that time I didn't.
Mr. Kennedy. Some of the money, you learned later through con-
versations, some of this money went to finance some of the narcotics
operations in the New York City area ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. You say that you would loan money to any kind of
an operation, whether it be prostitution, gambling ?
16904 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. MiSHEL. It don't make no difference. Money is money.
Mr. Kennedy. Anything but narcotics ?
Mr. MiSHEL. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. Why wouldn't you loan money to them ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I just got an aversion against it.
Mr. Kennedy. You wouldn't loan money along those lines ?
Mr. MiSHEL. No.
Mr. Kennedy. But some of the money did go to narcotics figures.
Mr. MiSHEL. I understand it did.
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to go through some of these people that
received some of the money, and some of the amounts and the rate of
interest that you charged them.
Do you remember a man by the name of John Bananas, David Au-
gust?
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is David August ?
Mr. MiSHEL. That is John Bananas.
Mr. Kennedy. He is also known as John Bananas ?
Mr. MiSHEL. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what he does ; what his background is ?
Mr. MiSHEL. John is a bookmaker.
Mr. Kennedy. And he is a partner of Little Harry Gross in the
Cannon Trucking Co. ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you know a man in connection with that by
the name of John Cafiero ?
Mr. MisHEL. That was a stiff account of John Bananas.
Mr. Kennedy. What do you mean by a "stiff" account?
Mr. MiSHEL. A phony accoinit we had set up.
Mr. Kennedy. This is a very complicated operation. I would lilce
to call another witness to give the backgi'ound of David August.
The Chairman. Have you been sworn ?
Mr. O'Brien. No, sir.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give
before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. O'Brien. I do.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS O'BRIEN
The Chairman. State your name, your residence, and your present
position of employment.
Mr. O'Brien. My name is Detective Thomas O'Brien. I reside at
Staten Island, N.Y. I am assigned to the New York City Police
Department, the criminal intelligence squad.
The Chairman. How long have you been with the New York police
squad ?
Mr. O'Brien. Approximately 151/^ years.
The Chairman. All right. You have been on assignment to this
committee, have you ?
Mr, O'Brien. Yes, sir, I have.
The Chairman. For how long?
Mr, O'Brien. For about 6 months.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16905
Tlie Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you have some information on the background
of David August?
Mr, O'Brien. Yes, sir, I do. David August has an alias of Jolm
Bananas and Sam Cohen. He is an associate of Plarry Gross, who
was convicted for large scale bookmaking in New York City. In
fact, at the present time — I think the case is going before the grand
jury today in Brooklyn, N.Y. — he is held as a material witness in a
similar bookmaking case, and he is on bail at $100,000.
Mr. Kennedy. He is out on bail at $100,000 ?
Mr. O'Brien. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the case where these individuals were just
arrested over the period of the last week; is that right?
Mr. O'Brien. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That was in connection also with certain police
officials?
Mr. O'Brien. Yes, sir; that is true. He has seven arrests. He has
five convictions. Most of the convictions are for vagrancy, for policy,
and for bookmaking.
TESTIMONY OF IRVING MISHEI^Resumed
Mr. Kennedy. Can you teU us how much you loaned him, Mr.
Mishel?
Mr. MiSHEL. John Bananas ?
Mr. IvENNEDY. Yes.
Mr. MisiiEL. Untold thousands. It is hard to estimate.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, can you say approximately ?
Mr. Mishel. Over the period of time that I knew Jolin ? Probably
$150,000. That was in small loans, you know.
Mr. Ivennedy. Small loans over a period of approximately 8 or 9
years?
Mr. Mishel. No, I wouldn't say that long. Over a period of 4 or 5
years, maybe longer.
Mr. Kennedy. We do not have all the records; is that right?
TESTIMONY OF SHERMAN S. WILLSE— Resumed
Mr. WiLLSE. "We do not.
Mr. Kennedy. But he has kept certain records in connection with
these loans ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. We found that these records were kept not only by
him but by Charles Bemoff ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And by other officers in the company ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. We have fomid and determined that in connection
with the handwriting, have we?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, we have.
The Chairman. AVlien you say records kept by him, do you mean
this witness?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir, and also Charles BemofF.
16906 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
The Chairman. Mishel ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. The records that you are going to refer to now
were kept by Mr. Mishel and also Mr. Bemoff ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. But we have the records only for a limited period
of time ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And we only have limited records ; is that right ?
Mr. WiLLSE. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. We do not have all the records even for that period
of time ?
Mr.WiLLSE. No.
Mr. Kennedy. What period of time are we going to be discussing ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Mainly 1949. There may be a very few in the latter
part of 1948 or early 1950. But the large majority is in 1949.
Mr. Kennedy. We do not have all the records ?
Mr. WiLLSE. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. From the records that we do have, do we find that
there are, in fact, loans to Johnny Bananas ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes. The records show that in 1949 there were two
loans made to John Bananas for $4,000 and $1,500. The interest rate
annually amounts to 70.87.
Mr. Kennedy. Seventy percent interest ?
Mr.WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Does the records show that he repaid the loans and
paid the interest ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Part of records show that. We don't have complete
records on it.
The Chairman. I mean as to these two loans that you are men-
tioning now ?
Mr. WiLLSE. We just have part of the records showing part repay-
ment.
The Chairman. The records do show a partial repayment?
Mr.WiLLSE. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. How much do you have there that the record shows
was repaid on this total of $6,500 principal ?
Mr. WiLLSE. That has not been estimated at this point, Senator.
The Chairman. You don't have that figure ?
Mr.WiLLSE. No, sir.
The Chairman. How do you arrive at the 70 percent interest?
Where do you get that information ? From the records ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir. The records were kept by Mishel which show
the date and amount of loan and the proposed repayments over a cer-
tain period. Based on an annual percentage, it comes to 70.87 }:)ercent.
The Chairman. In other words, he did make a record of the amount
of the loan, of the understanding with respect to repayment and the
amount of the repayment to be made?
Mr.WiLLSE. That is correct.
The Chairman. Taking those and evaluating them, you find that
the rate of interest being charged on the basis of the loan was around
70 percent ?
Mr. WiLLSE. That is correct.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16907
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. And the records show that Johnny Bananas was as-
sociated with the Cannon Trucking Co, ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. In fact, some of the money went to the Cannon
Trucking Co. ; is that right ?
Mr. WiLLSE. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. Also, from endoi-sements on the checks, we find en-
dorsements on a check of a man by the name of I. Fine; is that right?
Would you give us the information on I. Fine?
Mr. WiLLSE. There was a check made out to I. Fine.
Mr. Kennedy. A check from whom ?
Mr. AYiLLSE. A check from Zenith Associates, wliich was the com-
pany of Irving Mishel, made out to I. Fine. Our information is that
he is known as Two-gun Izzy Fine. He used to be a chauffeur for
Mishel and at one time was associated with Fat Tony Salerno, who
was a jukebox operator on the upper East Side of New York. That
check to I. Fine is endorsed by him and comiterendorsed with the
name of Cafiero, which is the assumed name of David August or
John Bananas.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Mishel, can you explain as simply as pos-
sible the situation regarding John Cafiero in the case of Jolinny
Bananas? What would you do as far as establishing this so-called
stiff account?
TESTIMONY OF IRVING MISHEL— Resumed
Mr. Mishel. We got a stiff account in the Industrial Bank.
Mr. Kennedy. What led up to the establishment of the stiff
account ?
Mr. Mishel. We had trouble, Charlie and I, collecting from John,
and it seemed he couldn't pay, or he was going bad bookmaking, and
so we told him we would give him a little breather, and a little spell,
and he would have to pav us.
Mr. I^nnedy. Say, tor instanc-e, or give some imaginary figures,
and say you loaned him $10,000 and he was to pay you $12,000 over
a period of 12 weeks ?
Mr. Mishel. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Now the 12 weeks goes by and he is not able to pay
you.
Mr. Mishel. He has been paying us, but all of a sudden he stops.
Mr. KJENNEDY. Let us assume he still owes you as of the time he
stops. $12,000, and you have loaned him $10,000. "WHiat happens
then?
Mr. Mishel. Well, we sit down with John and we tell him that
"We will try to make it as easy for you as possible."
So we ask him, "Do you think you can pay it in 6 months or 3
months, or a year ?" And we give him a little moratorium.
Mr. Kennedy. You give him until February 18, 1949 ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Or 1959, rather?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. So what steps do you take then ?
16908 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. MiSHEL. We have John open up this stiff account.
Mr. IvENNEDY. In some bank ?
Mr. MiSHEL. In some bank.
Mr. Kennedy. Under the name of John Cafiero ?
Mr. MiSHEL. That was the name he happened to want to use, for
some reason.
Mr. Kennedy. All right.
Mr. MiSHEL. And we get a note of $12,000.
Mr. IvENNEDY. He gives you a note then, "lOU $12,000.'"
Mr. MiSHEL. We had our own notes. Admiral Trading had its own
noteSj for $12,000, and we take the note and it was payable to Admiral
Tradmg Corp., for $12,000, due 1 year from the due date and the
note for 6 percent interest.
Mr. IvENNEDY. So then you take the note and you go to your bank
where you have this account.
Mr. MiSHEL. We take the note and we endorse the back of it,
Admiral Trading Corp., and we get a discount sheet and we pledge
it in the National Safety Bank against our line of credit, our unse-
cured line of credit, and that afternoon the bank would credit our cash
account with $12,000.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the arrangement that you had with your
own bank ?
Mr. MisHEL. An unsecured line of credit.
Mr. Kennedy. Where you paid off these two officials?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir. We would also have John endorse the back
of the check.
Mr. Kennedy. He would give you a check ?
Mr. MiSHEL. We make a check for $12,000 to John Cafiero.
Mr. Kennedy. This was a legitimate operation, supposedly ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. This would make it appear on the books of Admiral
Trading that you were actually loaning John Cafiero $12,000 ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you would have Jolin Cafiero endorse it ?
Mr. Mishel. We would endorse the back of the check and he would
endorse it, somebody in the office would say "OK for cash," either
Benny or my wife, somebody who was authorized.
Mr. Kennedy. Then you would take the check and you would
cash it ?
Mr. Mishel. We have our $12,000.
Mr. Kennedy. You get your $12,000 ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. And then through the manipulation through the
bank, the bank would have credited the Admiral Trading Co. with
$12,000?
Mr. Mishel. That is right, and our loan account would owe him
$12,000 more.
Mr. Kennedy. You were j ust defrauding the bank ?
Mr. Mishel. We were getting credit from the bank.
Mr. Kennedy. From a phony account ; is that right?
Mr. Mishel. I would say that is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Then, in the meantime, Mr. Cafiero, wlien February
18, 1959, comes along, the bank he has established this account in,
under John Cafiero, would come to him ?
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16909
Mr. MisHEL. The note would be sitting there.
Mr. Kennedy. And he would have to pay it on that date ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Plus 6 percent intere^.
Mr. Kennedy. So that the money then was going to be repaid, the
$12,000, even though he only got $10,000, and the $12,000 plus the 6
percent interest was going to be repaid to the Admiral Trading Co.,
and so you had gotten $12,000 out of Admiral Trading Co., and they
had gotten their $12,000 back after a period of a year, and nobody
was the wiser?
Mr. MisHEL. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And the bank, if there was a loss, the bank had stood
in that position ?
Mr. MiSHEL. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the general procedure that you use when
somebody wouldn't pay up in time ?
Mr. Mishel. In some stiff accounts, yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we have loans also to Little Harry Gross?
Mr. Willse. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. The bookmaker from Brooklyn ?
Mr. Willse. Yes, and we have records that show four loans in 1949,
totaling $4,000. The interest on the four loans amounts to 47.26, 91
percent, 78 percent, and 104 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. On the four loans ?
Mr. Willse. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, he is one of the most notorious bookmakers,
is he not ?
Mr. Willse. He is regarded as an important bookmaker, particu-
larly in the Brooklyn area.
Mr. Kennedy. Now, also did you loan money to William Axelrod,
known gts Willie Baker?
Mr. MiSHEL. Willie Baker, I loaned money to.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is he ?
Mr. MisHEL. He had a gambling place on Ninth Street, and we
used to loan him $10,000 for $12,000, payable $600 or $700 a week.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we find any records showing they made loans?
Mr. Willse. Yes, there are two loans, one in the latter part of
1948, and another in 1949. The first was for $10,000 and the second
for $6,200, and the interest rates show 28.86, and 69.89.
Mr. Kennedy. And we have 16 Regal Amusement Corp. receipts
made out to Willie Baker.
Mr. Willse. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. And we have some further evidence on those loans?
Mr. Willse. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Could you tell me anything about Willie Baker?
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS O'BIIIEN— Resumed
Mr. O'Brien. Willie Baker's right name is Axelrod, and he is a
gambler associate of Meyer Lansky, and Sam "Red" Levine, and
Champ Segal, and they are all prominent in the underworld gam-
bling circles. He has approximately 12 arrests and was convicted 4
times — grand larceny, robbery, burglary, and disorderly conduct, and
36751 O— -59 — pt. 46 29
16910 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
on 2 occasions he was sentenced to State prison for a term of 3 to 10
years.
Mr. Kennedy. What about David Karpf ? Did you make a loan
to him, K-a-r-p-f ?
Mr. MisHEL. I believe I did.
Mr. Kennedy. That was a loan again in cash ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes, a cash loan.
Mr. Kennedy. What would these men need these loans for, these
people are big gamblers and big racketeers ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I don't know what they needed them for, and we
loaned them the money as long as they were good for it.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you understand they needed it for?
Mr. MiSHEL. For gambling, and they were in trouble, and other
reasons.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about that ? Do we find in fact
they made a loan ?
Mr. Willse. The records that we do have show just one loan for
$500 with an interest rate of 104 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about David Karpf ? How much
money do you think you loaned to David Karpf ?
Mr. Mishel. Maybe $4,000 or $5,000 ; not too much.
Mr. Kennedy. Over a period of time ?
Mr. Mishel. Over a period of time.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we have on him ?
Mr. O'Brien. He is actually a labor extortionist, and at the pres-
ent time he is serving a 3-year sentence for extorting money from the
union. He has been convicted with the business agent of the union
while manager of local 102 of the ILGWU.
He has a brother, Charles, who is a bookmaker, who obtained the
jewelry workers job, and in 1958 he was kicked out of local 296 of
theAFL.
He was connected with the Textile Woi'lcers Union and he used that
vmion as a front for shakedowns in the jukebox industry.
Charlie at one time was sentenced to 30 days for assault of a juke-
box' repairman who crossed one of the phony picket lines we were
talking about previously.
At the present time, we have information that he may be an official
of Local 598 of Upholstery Workers Union in Miami.
Mr. Kennedy. I believe the record shows that they have lifted the
chart eV on Mr. Karpf, and they found out about liis re^^ord.
Now ■\5:hat about Samuel J. Kaufman, who is known as Petey Mack ?
Did you loan him money ?
Mr. MisiiEL. We shylocked him, and he was a shylock, and we used
to lend it to him.
Mr. Kennedy. What was his business ?
Mr. Mishel. Shylocking.
Mr. Kennedy. He was sliylocking himself ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sii", and wesliylocked hiuL
Mr. Kennedy.. Ym\ shylocked him and he shylocked other people?
Mr. Mishel. He shylocked somebody else.
Mr. Kennedy. What do Ave find out about him ?
Mr. Willse. Our records indicate loans at least of $13,900. We
weren't able to estabish an interest rate in this case.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16911
Mr. Kennedy. AVhat do we know al)out Petey Mack, M-a-c-k?
Mr. O'Brien. His ri<2:ht name is Sam Kaufman, and he is a good
friend of Mickey Colien, tlie leading gangstei- out on the Pacific coast,
and also a good friend of Champ Segal, and a friend of the late Bugsy
Siegel, who was murdei-ed out on the coast, and he was convicted for
larceny, pawning a $6,000 diamond ring, and he paid for it with two
bad checks.
Mr. Kennedy. Ilov; about Augie Lichtenstcin ? Did you loan
money to him ?
Mr! MisiiEL. We would lend Augie money, and Augie in turn would
relend the money to customers he had.
Mr. Kennedy. That was shylocking another shylock ?
Mr. MisiiEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you know about Augie Lichtenstein ?
Mr. MisiiEL. I know that Augie and Jewey and Murray were con-
victed together in the milk racket.
Mr. Kennedy. The milk extortion racket ?
Mr. MisiiEL. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we find as far as the loans to Augie
Lichtenstein ?
Mr. WiLLSE. We find a total of five loans in 1949, amounting to
$5,600. The interest rates on four of the loans are 47.26 percent, and
43.31 on another loan.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we find some of the money went to Alert
Cleaning?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir,
Mr. Kennedy. Is that a company run by Augie ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Our information is that he has been connected with it.
The receipts are made out, some of them, to Augie, with the name
"Alert'- in parenthesis, or Alert Cleaners with the name "Abe" in
parenthesis.
Mr. Kennedy, What do we know about him ?
Mr. O'Brien. Little Augie is another well-known labor racketeer,
and his arrests show associations with other big time mobsers like
George Uffner, who is a close friend of Frank Costello, one of the
biggest known racket names in New York City, and Eddie Taylor, and
Murray Gabaeff . His association goes back to Murder, Incorporated,
which was a group that was terrorizing the garment industry in its
day.
He took part of the development of the Regal Music Co., coin-
machine business, and he was part of that ring that extorted $2,5
million from the milk industry, where they threatened farmers and
dumped trucks and everything else, with the connivance of some of the
local officials of the Teamsters Union,
Mf. Kennedy, How about Charles Marcus ?
Mr. MiSHED. Charlie is an accountant,
Mr. Ke'n^tedy. He is an accountant ?
Mr.MisHEL. CPA,
Mr. Kennedy. Who is he an accountant for?
Mr. Mishel. Some wise guys, and I don't know^ exactly.
Mr. Kennedy. Who are the wise guys?
Mr. Mishel. I don't know exactly their names.
16912 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. Do we have the wise guys he was an accountant for?
Mr. O'Brien. Well, he is accountant for Vincent Bruno. B-r-u-n-o.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is he ?
Mr. O'Brien. His right name is Vincent Mauro, and he is a big
hoodlum in New York City, very closely associated with Tony Bender,
who is also known as Anthony Strollo, connected with Vito Genovese.
Kaplan himself has a number of aliases, Abe Kaplan, Marcus, Charles
Karkusfalt, and he has four arrests and we don't know the convictions,
but he has been arrested four times.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did he get?
Mr. WiLLSE, The records show three loans totaling $10,000, with
interest rate of 30 percent, 75.92, and 65 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Harry Eimmer? Do you know him?
Mr. MiSHEL. He was a friend of Charlie's, and I think that he had
the riding place.
Mr. Kennedy. Horseback riding ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I think so.
Mr. Kennedy. ^Vhat do we find about the loans ?
Mr. WiLLSE. There are three loans, in 1949, of $300 each, with thp
same interest rate in each case, which was 173.16 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about Harry Rimmer ?
Mr. O'Brien. He uses an alias of Harry Rathman, and he went to
Elmira Reformatory for assault, and also arrested for rape. He
operates a riding academy.
Mr. Kennedy. Does he do anything other than run a riding acad-
emy now ?
Mr. O'Brien. Not that we know of.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Red Rosen? Do you make some loans
to him ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes ; we loaned Rosen some money.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was he ?
Mr. MiSHEL. A guy from the garment center, and he was with some
union.
Mr. Kennedy. With some union.
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Was he an associate of Johnny Dioguardi ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I believe so.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you find any of the money that went to Rosen
went in turn to Johnny Dioguardi's company, Rosemary Fashions?
Mr. MiSHEL. I think one of the checks that Charlie and I issued
was endorsed Rosemary Fashions.
Mr. Kennedy. AVhich was Johnny Dioguardi's company ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How much was that for ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I think that was a $1,000 check.
Mr. Kennedy. What were you loaning money to him for, and what
was he doing?
Mr. MiSHEL. I don't know exactly what ho did witli the money, but
we loaned it to him.
Mr. Kennedy. Well, it would appear that you were financing most
of the gangstere and racketeers and underworld figures in New York
City when they needed money.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16913
Mr. MisHEL. I didn't ask tliem what they were doing with tlie
money, and all I was interested in was whether the money was good.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is Louie Rosen ?
Mr. WiLLSE. The record shows three loans in 1949, totaling $2,925,
with the interest rates on three loans, of 47.26 percent, 97.20 percent,
and 65 percent. The receipts showing repayments of these loans are
made out to Red Rosen, and in parentheses is the name "Rosemary
Fashions.'" Rosemary Fashions was the manufacturer of house
dresses, chartered prior to October of 1947 with Johnny Dioguardi as
president. It has been inactive since 1950.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him ?
Mr. O'Brien. He is known as Red Rosen, a bookmaker, and an as-
sociate of Johnny Dio, and seven arrests and six convictions, and one
was for counterfeit money, and grand larceny, 6 months, and internal
revenue, 9 months, and these four arrests for bookmaking.
Mr. Kennedy. How about James Rutkin ?
Mr. MisHEL. Jim Rutkin '.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you make a loan to him ?
Mr. MISH^^^. I believe we loaned him $5,000.
Mr. Kennedy. What do the records show i
Mr. WiLLSE. The records show a loan of $5,000 in 1949, interest
rate 52 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about Rutkin ?
Mr. O'Brien. Rutkin is one of the real big racketeers in the Penn-
sylvania area, a former bootlegger, and partner of Joe Adonis and
Jerry Catena, who was at Apalachin, and Sal Morretti and Anthony
Guarini. They had a large-scale gambling establishment. He was
convicted of evading income tax on $250,000, w^hich he extorted from
a former associate.
He was fined $10,000 and he was sentenced to 7 years in jail. He
is an associate of a lot of bigname racketeers, Frank Costello in New
York, Longy Zwillman, one of the biggest racket men in Jersey, and
Harry Stromberg, one of the biggest dope peddlers in the country,
and Frankie Carbo, who was the behind-the-scenes man in all of those
fights. In fact, Carbo is currently wanted by the district attorney's
office in Manhattan.
Mr. Kennedy. Speaking of Rosen, who is a major narcotics figure,
did you make any loans to him ?
Mr. MisHEL. I believe we made two loans to Nick Rosen.
Mr. Kennedy. How much were they for?
Mr. MiSHEL. I think $10,000 for $12,500, and either $12,000 for
$15,000, or $13,000 for $16,000, and I am not sure.
Mr. Kennedy. What was that for? What did you loan him money
for?
Mr. MisuEL. He wanted some money.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever find out what he used the money for?
Mr. Mishel. Subsequently I found out.
Mr. Kennedy. How did you find out ?
Mr. Mishel. That is when I started hollering about we weren't
collecting.
Mr. Kennedy. What did you find out ?
Mr, Mishel. It was used for some narcotic deal that blew up.
Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you that ?
16914 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. MisHEL. Yes, he did.
Mr. KJENNEDY. What did he say about it ?
Mr. MiSHEL. He said, "Somehow or other the drugs were confis-
cated, and don't worry ; you will get paid."
Mr. Kennedy. He couldn't pay you on time ?
Mr. Mishel. No, he couldn't, but he said he would pay us. And,
in fact, Charlie made a terrific effort to collect the money, but we were
very unsuccessful.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever collect from him ?
Mr. Mishel. No, as far as I know he hasn't collected.
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat do the records show ?
Mr. WiLLSE. The records in this case consist of an Admiral Trad-
ing Corp. check made out to Harry Stromberg for $12,500, and on the
back it has an "X" which we assume to be the spot for the endorse-
ment. Underneath that it says, "OK cash, signed, Charles Bemoff."
Although the check is undated, a comparison of the number of the
check, 3454, with other checks in our possession would indicate that
it was issued sometime in 1950, which is about the time of the start
of the narcotics conspiracy in which Nig Stromberg was implicated.
Mr. Kennedy. He has been convicted, has he not ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes ; he is doing time for it now.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him ?
Mr. O'Brien. Well, Nig Rosen is one of the strong-arm men for the
old Murder, Inc., mob and I would say he knows every major racketeer
in the country and they know him. At the present time he is serving
time and this was for smuggling $20 million worth of narcotics into
the United States from Europe.
The Chairman. How much ?
Mr. O'Brien. $20 million.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we know what the interest was on that loan ?
Mr. WiLLSE. No, sir.
Mr! Kennedy. Do we have some other records that would indicate
what the interest was ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, and certain notations made on a letter.
Mr. Kennedy. Written by whom?
Mr. WiLLSE. By Charles Bernoff.
Mr. Kennedy. What does it show ?
Mr. WiLLSE. In the letter, after the text regarding the loans to
Rosen
Mr. Kennedy. Who was the letter addressed to?
Mr. WiLLSE. To "Dear Jay," which is one of the names that Jewey
Bernoff was known by.
Mr. Kennedy. His brother?
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes, sir; and there is a handwritten notation beside
the text which says "$12,000, 6 percent in 2 years, 1,440."
Mr. Kennedy. Wliat would that mean? Do you have any idea if
it is $12,000 plus 6 percent in 2 years, $1,440?
Mr. Mishel. $1,440 may have been some additional interest for
carrying him for 2 additional years.
Mr. Kennedy. But we don't have the interest beyond that?
Mr. WiLLSE. No, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about Sol Vogel ?
Mr. Mishel. Charlie and I loaned him three or four loans.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16915
Mr. Kennedy. Who was he?
Mr. MisiiEL. He is a bookmaker, and lie had a bar and grill called
Abe Attell's, on Broadway.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him ?
Mr. WiixsE. One loan in 1948, for $5,000, annual interest rate 52
percent.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him ?
Mr. O'Brien. He was convicted in connection with slot machine op-
erations, and he was also convicted for counterfeit trademark, and he
is a bookmaker as far as we know.
Mr. Kennedy. Harry Vogelstein — did you make a loan to him?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, he was a lawyer.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him, Vogelstein ?
Mr. O'Brien. He is a disbarred lawyer and he was connected with
the Dutch Schultz policy racket, and that was the reason for having
him disbarred, and he was connected with a company which turns out
thousands of counterfeit Delco-Remy parts, and they were counterfeit
parts they sent to South America, and there was quite a bit of in-
formation on it.
Mr. Kennedy. Automobile parts?
Mr. O'Brien. Yes, and he had a connection with this William
Cooper, a friend of Caiman Cooper, who was sentenced and died in the
electric chair for the Reader's Digest killing in Pleasantville, N.Y.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about the loan to Vogelstein?
Mr. WiLLSE. The evidence that we have shows that there is $2,000
owed on a loan that was made to him.
Mr. Kennedy. We don't know anything further about it?
Mr. WiLLSE. No, sir; this information comes from a letter.
Mr. Kennedy. The records that we have are far from complete.
Mr. WiLLSE. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. Spunky Weiss. Did you know him ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money did you loan him ?
Mr. Mishel. I can't be sure of the exact amount.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we find ? "WHiat do the records show^ ?
Mr. WiLLSE. One loan in 1949 for $1,600, annual interest rate 51.31
percent.
Mr. Kennedy. Who was he ?
Mr. O'Brien. Spunky Weiss is another one of the key members of
Murder, Inc., and from that he graduated to garment racketeering,
and as far as we know he may still be in the garment trucking in the
area. He has been arrested 11 times, robbery with, a gun, felonious
assault, and he killed someone with an iron pipe, and he wjvs convicted
of that and sentenced to be executed and he was in the death house but
subsequently given a new trial and the indictment was dismissed. He
has one conviction out of 11 arrests.
Mr. Kennedy. Sol Winkler. Did you loan him money?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. That was again cash ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we find on him ?
Mr. Willse. One loan in 1949, for $2,000, annual interest rate 47.26
percent.
16916 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him ?
Mr. O'Brien. Winkler is a bookmaker in the garment area of New
York City, and he has four arrests, three for bookmaking, and he is a
bookmaker.
Mr. Kennedy. Benjamin Zuckerman?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes; that is Cockeyed Benny, and we loaned him a
tremendous amount of money.
Mr. Kennedy. How much money ?
Mr. MiSHEL. At one time, he owed us about $75,000.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we find ?
Mr. WiLLSE. The evidence, namely, a letter, shows evidently $50,000
is still owed by Zuckerman.
Mr. Kennedy. Do we know anything about him ?
Mr. O'Brien. He was a big bootlegger and sentenced twice for
illegal liquor, and a year and a day on each particular occasion, and he
had horse rooms and he was arrested for assault, and nine arrests and
four convictions.
Mr. Kennedy. We don't know the interest rate on that?
Mr. WiLLSE. No.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Nicholas Bilangi ?
Mr. MiSHEL. I don't know anybody by that name.
Mr. Kennedy. Bobby Blanche?
Mr. MisHEL. We made a loan to Bobby Blanche.
Mr. Kennedy. What is the situation ?
Mr. WilLse. a loan of $1,000, interest rate 47.26 percent annually.
Mr. Kennedy. What is his background ?
Mr. O'Brien. Well, we also know him as Bobby Blanche, and he
was arrested for homicide and convicted of manslaughter in the first
degree and he was sentenced to from 10 to 20 years in Sing Sing,
and he was paroled after 7 yeai-s and he was picked up right after
that for parole violation.
He has been arrested for grand larceny and malicious mischief, and
he associates with Vincent Alo — "Jimmy Blue Eyes" — Frank Carbo,
Frank Breheney, Harry Lanza, who is the brother of Socks Langa,
the racketeer in the fish market district, and Frank Erickson, consid-
ered to be one of the biggest bookmakers in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. Joseph Gantz, Did you make a loan to him?
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
Mr. WiLLSE. The record shows a loan of $1,000 in 1949, at 65 percent
interest.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we know about him ?
(At this point Senator McClellan left the hearing room and Senator
Curtis entered the hearing room.)
Mr. O'Brien. Gantz has been arrested four times and he has two
convictions, and in 1935 and in 1952 he was given penitentiary terms
for burglary and burglars tools in each case.
Mr. Kennedy. WTiat was the percentage on his loan?
Mr. WiLLSE. Sixty-five percent.
Mr. Kennedy. How about Harry Segal, known as "Champ" Segal?
Mr. Mishel. We made a loan to him.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you remember how much ?
Mr. Mishel. We made several loans to him, and I would say we
loaned him a total of between $15,000 and $20,000.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16917
Mr. AViLj^E. Our only evidence shows a loan in 1949 for $950, at
an interest rate of 136.76 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you know what his background is? He is one
of the most interest in*j; is he not?
Mr. O'Brien. In some respects. He is an undercover fight man-
ager, and right at the present time he is out on bail for that particular
crime in New York City, and he is a major underw^orld figure. He
knows practically everybody in the underworld, and the interesting
part about his record is that he was arrested for mutiny on the high
seas.
It seems that he and some of the racket men from the coast went
out on a ship or a yacht and they tried to convince the captain that
he should take them down around Mexico some place and he refused,
so they overpowered the captain and the crew and they took the ship
over themselves.
Mr. Kennedy. What were his other arrests?
Mr. O'Brien. He has been arrested for narcotics, grand larceny, and
for murder, conspiracy and vagrancy, and violation of the alcohol tax
laws, and he is associated with Frankie Carbo, another fight manager,
and Tony Bender, and Thomas Eboli, connected with the cigarette
vending machines, and Vito Genovese, who is on trial at the present
time in a major narcotics conspiracy in New York.
Mr. Kennedy. We have some other loans here which I won't bother
going into. One of these loans, I notice, has an interest rate at 198
percent.
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes. That was placed on four loans in 1949 totaling
$9,400.
Mr. Kennedy. The lowest rate of interest is about 30 percent, I
believe, and it ranges up to 198 percent. I think there is one at 28
percent. It ranges up to 198 percent.
Mr. Willse. I believe those are correct figures.
Mr. Kennedy. From an examination of the records, do we find
that the financing for this operation, these loan operations to these
major underworld figures, came at least in part from the jukebox
operation ?
Mr. Willse. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you explain the situation ?
Mr. Willse. At its inception, Belmont Factors started with a
$90,000 loan from Admiral. Belmont Factors, when it closed opera-
tions, its assets and liabilities were assumed b^' Regal Music Co., Inc.,
and the jukebox and game machine operatmg company, to which
Belmont was indebted in the amount of $103,828.41.
R3gal Music Co. was the main source from which Belmont Factors,
Inc., obtained their funds to give the loans. The Admiral Trading
Corp., the other factoring company, was unable to borrow funds from
banks since 1954 and now obtains required funds from Regal Music
Co., Inc., which does the borrowing from the banks and then lends
the money to the Admiral Trading (^orp.
Mr. Kennedy. So there is a direct tie-in between this operation
which loaned money to these underworld figures and the jukebox
operation that had been set up originally ?
Mr. Willse. Yes, sir.
16918 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. Kexnedy. And wliich, in turn, was set up by underworld fig-
ures, the jukebox operation itself being set up by these major under-
world figures?
Mr. WiLLSt:. That is correct.
Mr. Kennedy. And it is one of the biggest operations in New York
City presently ?
Mr. WiLLSE. I understand it is one of the biggest,
Mr. Kennedy. You also lent money to Mr. Squillante; did you not?
Mr. MisiiEL. Some money ; not too much.
Mr. Kennedy. How much ?
Mr. MisnEL. A few thousand dollars.
Mr. Kennedy. Would you show some of those slips to Mr. Mishel,
which is the basis for the evidence ?
Present them to the chairman first.
(At this point Senator Ervin left the hearing room.)
The Chairman. Mr. Mishel, the Chair presents to you a number of
tickets made out on Regal Amusement Corp. I am unable to identify
just what they are, but I will present them to you. I think maybe
you are familiar with them. I wnll ask you to examine them and state
what they are.
(The documents were handed to the witness.)
Mr. Mishel. These are slips for repayment of loans, partial repay-
ments.
The Chairman. In other w'ords, you would make these loans you
talked about, and when they would repay or make a payment on the
debt, you would make out a slip like those ?
Mr. Mishel. This is in Charlie's handwriting. Charlie made these
slips and sent them to me.
The Chairman. I mean your company, or someone representing
your company, made them out ?
Mr. Mishel. When we collected the money, I Avould send it down to
the office and Charlie, in turn, would send me up slips so that our
records wouldn't be different.
The Chairman. He was your partner and he made out the slip ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
The Chairman. You recognize them and that is what they are ?
Mr. Mishel. That is what they are. Senator.
The Chairman. That group may be made exhibit No. 43, in bulk.
(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 43" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. That shows your method of handling the accounts
when you would receive a payment on a loan ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes, a weekly payment, a monthly payment, and in-
terest, bonus, et cetera.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, we have thousands of those slips,
which are the basis of Mi . Willse's testimony, and which are the basis
of corroboration of this witness. These are the slips we have been
studying.
The Chairman. All of the other slips that we have in the file may
be made exhibit No. 43A, in bulk. They will just be for reference, all
that you have in the file.
Mr. Willse, they may be made an exhibit to your testimony in bulk,
exhibit No. 43A.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16919
(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 43A" for refer-
ence and may be found in tlie files of the select connnittee.)
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, here are examples of other records
which show the dates and the times of payment of some of these loans.
For instance, you have there the one for Johnny Bananas.
The Chairman. I hand you here some slips and memorandums in
handwriting, in pen, showing the name of John Bananas. It starts
off on January 3, 1949, Monday, and it shows the number of payments
at different times.
I will ask you to examine these three slips or documents which I
hand you, one of them in the name of John Bananas and the other
in the name of Little Harry, and the other in the name of Cannon
Trucking Co., I believe it is.
I wish you would examine those three and state if you identify
them.
(The documents were handed to the witness.)
Mr. MisHEL. Yes.
The CnAiR:MAN. What are they ?
Mr. MiSHEL. These are methods of repayment of a loan. The first
one is a loan of $4,000 to John Bananas, who is David August. It is
payable at $400 a week for 10 weeks and $600 for the 11th week.
Total bonus is $600. The payments were on January 3, 10, 17, 24, and
the 31st.
The Chairman. Did he pay it all off ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes. Across the face of it I wrote "Paid." This is
my handwriting.
The Chairman. Do you recognize the other two that I have pre-
sented to you also ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. They may be made exhibits Nos. 44A, 44B, and 44C.
(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits Nos. 44A, 44B, and
44C" for reference and may be found in the files of the select
committee.)
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I thought that as long as I mentioned
the interest rate of 198 percent I would also put the name of the indi-
vidual who received that loan into the record.
You made a loan to Meyer Goldstein ?
Mr. MisHEL. Yes ; I did.
Mr. Kennedy. Do you remember how much money was loaned to
him ?
Mr. MisHEL. Charlie and I must have loaned Mever Goldstein any-
where from $150,000 to $200,000. We used to lend him money pay-
able $300 a day, $500 a day, different loans.
Mr. Kennedy. What do we find on that ?
Mr. WiLLSE. The records that we have just indicate four loans in
1949, and they total $9,200, with the interest rate of 198.36 percent.
Mr. Kennedy. Who is Meyer Goldstein ?
Mr. WiLLSE. Meyer Goldstein was a partner of Henry Stromberg,
known as Nig Rosen, who is now serving time for Federal narcotics
conspiracy. They were partners in a dress company.
Mr. Kennedy. In New York City ?
16920 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Mr. WiLLSE. Yes. It was located in New York, and I believe that
there was a branch in Pennsylvania somewhere.
Mr. Kennedy. This company, while you were with it, was active in
loaning many millions of dollars ; is that correct ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Many, many millions of dollars ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. Do you know what became of your records ?
Mr. MisHEL. To what company, sir ?
The Chairman. This company that did all of this lending. We
don't have all the records.
Mr. MiSHEL. Admiral's records Charlie has.
The Chairman. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. MiSHEL. Admiral's records Charlie Bernoff has.
The Chairman. He is supposed to have all the records?
Mr. Mishel. He has them.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. Kennedy. Did you receive any instructions about keeping your
records ?
Mr. Mishel. The cash business? He told me at the end of the
year to tear them up, burn them, because they are dead.
Mr. Kennedy. That is the shylocking business we have been dis-
cussing ?
Mr. Mishel. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. You didn't do that ?
Mr, Mishel. "Well, I never tear anything up if I can help it.
Mr. Kennedy. You kept the records ?
Mr. Mishel. That is right.
Mr. Kennedy. And you made them available ?
Mr. Mishel. I did.
Mr. Kennedy. At least to the extent that you still had them ?
Mr. Mishel. After your committee told me about Charlie.
Mr. Kennedy. I would like to call Mr. Bernoff back, please.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. You may stand aside.
Mr. Kennedy. Thanks a lot.
The Chairman. Mr. Bernoff.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES BERNOFF, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JACOB W. FRIEDMAN AND ABRAHAM POLLOCK— Resumed
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. You were in the shylocking business, Mr. Bernoff.
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Was there any testimony given by the previous wit-
ness that was not correct ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
as previously stated.
Mr. Kennedy. You were financing or helping to finance the
leading
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground pre-
viously stated.
The Chairman. State your ground.
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground I sin-
cerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16921
The Chairman. Did you testify ajjainst this boy Mishel and get
him in the penitentiary ?
Mr. Bernoft. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
as previously stated.
The Chairman. You were not running any risk of self-incrimina-
tion when you testified against him before ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
as previously stated.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, here are some letters that were written
by Mr. Bernoff in connection with some of the loans that have been
testified to here. There are some pen notations next to some of the
loans, indicating that Mr. Bernoff had full knowledge of what was
going on. In addition, we have some of these slips that have been
placed in exhibit for reference which are in Mr. Bernoff's hand-
writing.
The Chairman, Mr. Bernoff, do you know somebody that you would
call "Dear Jay"?
Mr. Kennedy. Is that your brother 'i
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
as previously stated.
The Chairman. You got concerned about some of your loans, did
you?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the same ground
as previously stated.
The Chairman. I told you to state your ground.
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. I have a photostatic copy of a letter dated December
28, 1950, written on the Regal Music Co., Inc., stationery, New York,
and it starts off, "Dear Jay : Our resolutions for the coming year 1951."
It has a lot of handwriting and notations on it.
I will ask you to examine this resolution, or memorandum, or letter,
whichever you term it, addressed to "Dear Jay," and state if you
identify it.
(Document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. The letter shown the witness, or memorandum, as
it may be, may be made exhibit No. 45.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 45" for refer-
ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.)
The Chairman. I will ask you if those pen and ink notations on the
letter are in your handwriting.
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. I now present to you
Mr. Kennedy. May I read excerpts from this?
The Chairman. Let me get this one in.
I now present to you an original letter dated September 2, 1949, on
Admiral Trading Corp. stationery, addressed to Mr. Irv'ing Mishel,
Zenith Associates, and it is signed Admiral Trading Corp. and has
the initials C. B., which would correspond to your initials.
16922 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
I ask you to examine this letter and state if you identify it as the
original letter that you wrote.
(Document was handed to the witness.)
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Let the record show the witness did examine this
letter and also the previous document made exhibit 45.
This letter will be made exhibit No. 46.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 46" for reference
and will be found in the appendix on p. 16989.)
The Chairman. Are the initials C. B. written in pen and ink above
the name the sender — Admiral Trading Corp. — are those initials
C. B. your initials, and did you write them?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. Mr. Kennedy, both of these exhibits, exhibits
45 and 46, may be interrogated about to the witness, or you may quote
excerpts from them.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, this first letter, which is exhibit
No. 45, sent to "Dear Jay," was found in the possession, or picked up
in the possession, of Jacob Bernoff, Jewey Bernoff, when he was ar-
rested for violation of parole, and was turned over to us by the Fed-
eral authorities.
The Chairman. Let me ask the witness this question : Do you want
to deny that you are the author of the memorandum that I showed
you, of December 26, 1950, now exhibit No. 45, and of the letter of
September 2, 1949, now exhibit No. 46? Do you want to deny that
you are the author of those documents ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that I
sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. All right. It probably would.
Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. It says :
Dear Jay :
Our resolutions for the coming year 1951.
Either we take a stand and collect what is due us, or we continue to be good
fellows and go broke. And when that happens, I doubt if our so-called good
friends would give a damn, so I have made up my mind for the two of us,
we are going to clean house and put our affairs in shape as quickly as we can.
If we are to go forward in 1951, your cooperation is essential as to the fol-
lowing characters.
Remember, this is to Jay Bernoff, who is a notorious underworld
figure, who was involved in the milk extortion racket, who was a
member of a most notorious gang of hoodlums in New York City.
The Chairman. Is that the brother of this witness?
Mr. Kennedy. That is correct.
If we are to go forward in 1951, your cooperation is essential as to the follow-
ing characters. You must take a firm position and do not deviate, remember
you will be a bad fellow if you ask for your money, if you don't ask, you won't
get, if you don't get you will be a nice fellow. The choice is obvious, be a little
bad, don't be so nice, it's not appreciated anyway.
I will list those that I want you to take care of, and keep after them, be
insistent and listen to no stories. They are all in a position to pay. If they
really want to help yttu, this is the time. Make believe that you were actually
coming to them for help and prove to yourself as to what position they will
take or how far they would go. This is a good test for loyalty.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16923
No. 1 — Ponny. I have stood for about all the nonsense that I can. I want
a series of checks so that I don't have to run after him. He is doing pretty
well and there's no reason to stand for his insolent insults and abuse.
Then he has on the side —
About $1,500.
No. 2 — Augie. He can well afford to pay (refresh your memory as to this
deal). I want a series of checks for this amount. I will not chase after him
like a dog. He purports to be your friend ; let's see?
That is $800.
No. 3 — Goldstein. Once and for all let's see what kind of cards he is playing
with. If he is bluffing, let him sit down like a good boy and arrange to pay.
$10,IX)0 — 6 percent interest, 2 years.
No. 4 — Feur. This one gets my goat, his snappy attitude is one for the books.
Nail him to the cross. Get a series of notes or checks for the balance due, so
that we don't have to annoy him by calling him. He is very temperamental.
No. 5 — Freddie Kaplan. Locate this swindler and needle him till he pays.
The Chairman. Does that sound familiar to you ?
Mr. BERNorr. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy (reading) :
His is living now, let him borrow a little extra for me.
No. 6 — (^uppy. This bum keeps ducking, let him borrow from his good friends
and pay up. Tell him any story, it's rough, etc., and we need it.
No. 7 — Untkin. He's around, he's in trouble, we're in trouble, also, he knows
about B. Z., etc. He should help, let him pay $100 a week, that should be easy.
Whois"B.Z."?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. That was Zuckerman, was it not ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy. Here is another one, Mr. Chairman, that we have
mentioned.
No. 8 — Vogelstein. Here's another weasel. There's about $2,000 due us
from that mail deal. He brought that swindler here, let him pay. Make a
definite arrangement with him so that he will pay it weekly, $2,000.
No. 9 — Roi^en. There's no reason in God's world why this dead beat won't
pay you, of all people. He certainly can afford to pay at least $60,000 a week
or more. Perhaps he can arrange with Lou to get me a series of notes, it would
certainly help me a lot. He knows that the plant is doing nothing. The least
he could do i.s to pay something to help along. This I leave to you and his
conscience, if he has any. This is one character I would like to see produce
for you.
Of course there is Marcus and Freeman, $9,000 left, including Cuzzo, $3,600,
of which I will keep yo\i informed. Then there's Chick and Baker.
That is Willie Baker, is it not ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that
1 sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Kennedy (reading) :
Are we going to let all this good money that we sweated blood for go to hell,
not if I can help it. I'll do my share here, you do yours. Pitch in, get in the
ball game and let's hit a couple of homers and win a few ball games, it's about
time. As to the shop, there's work around. The Bible says, "Seek and ye shall
find."
I almost left out our prize — B. Z.- — don't take no more crap from him. He
is playing a game of cat and mouse with you. You be the cat and let him be
the mouse. Let's see what 1051 brings and here's hoping Yonkel Doodle goes
to town.
16924 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
That is what you used to call him, did you not ?
Mr. Bernoff. I respectfully decline to answer on the g:round that
I sincerely believe my answer may tend to incriminate me.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess
Mr. Kennedy. Before we end, Mr, Chairman
The Chairman. This statement is authorized by the Chair.
Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. The hearings that have been held have only been
held because of the cooperation and assistance that have had from
certain State, local, and government officials.
I would like to put their names into the record.
Certainly Frank Hogan once again has been of great help and as-
sistance, as has his office; Mr. Scotti; Police Commissioner Stephen
P. Kennedy, who for the last 6 or 8 months has allowed us to use four
of his finest police officers, Lieutenant Mooney, Detectives O'Brien,
Corrigan, and Joran; and the Brooklyn and Manhattan west detec-
tives; the district attorney in Brooklyn, Mr. Silver, who has been of
great assistance, and so has his office ; the deputy bureau chief, Mr.
Koota ; and the assistant district attorney, Mr. Lazarus ; the Federal
Bureau of Narcotics, Mr. Chairman, and James B. Leggett the chief
of detectives of the New York Police Department.
The investigation for New York has been conducted by Mr. Con-
standy and Mr. Walter May and has been one of the finest investiga-
tions that we have seen. Also, this phase of the hearings that we
held today was conducted and handled by Mr. Sherman Willse, with
the help and assistance of Mr. James Kelly. Mr. Robert Cofini has
also been of great help.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Now, what time can we reconvene for public hearings ?
Mr. Kennedy. A quarter to three.
The Chairman. We have an executive session this afternoon. It
will take about an hour. So we will resume, or undertake to resume,
public hearings in this room at 2 :45.
The committee will stand in recess until that time.
(Members of the select committee present at the taking of the recess
were Senators McClellan and Curtis.)
(Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the committee recessed, to reconvene
at 2 :45 p.m., the same day.)
APPENDIX
FJXHIHIT X(». 4
36751 O — 59 — pt. 46 .30
16925
16926 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 4A
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16927
Exhibit No, 4B
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16928 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 4C
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IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16929
Exhibit No. 7
MODERN DISTRIBUTXNO COMPANY
«niMOTnu>. auMou
July ae, i»4a
A. M. I. Phonosraph*
S009 Fulton 3tr««t
ChlMgo It. IlllBOia
DMT Mlk*
■• twT* r*ol«T«d our eb*r«t«r for
• union, for th« autoaatle phonographs*
hara In Sprln^lald. Wa bar* baan ra-
questad to draw up our own By Lawa
and Contraot, toy thla Saturday July 91,
this la tha raaaon «a ara vrltlag you
at this tlaa. la undaratand that your
union in Chloago, la oparatlng rsry
suocsssfully and vould a^raaiata you
aandlne us a aopy of your By Lawa ao
that »a aay outllna oura along thaaa
Unas as naar as posalbla.
Ulka ws would Ilka gattlng this In-
foraatloB as soon as poaalbla do to tha
faot tbay will Install our offleara and
ask for our By Lawa and Contraot on tha
aaxt aattlng on tha aboTa aantlonad data,
Tovr frland
UODUW 0I8TRIBUTI1I0 CO.
>»»
T^«ak 1X1^
16930 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 7 A
corr
July 21, 1^43
Mr. Prenk i^lto
Modern distributing, Co.
c25 North 5th Street
i:»pplnf:f leld, Illinois
L^far FrEnk,
I have your request or a copy of our association
by-lawf. It would have been on Its way to you
alrtedy If I had a cop ^ available. i am now
waltln^: for the rcutrn of our last copv which we
loaned to scire other '^rlends of ours. As soon
as I receive It (which should be wltiiln the nejc^
week) I will iTtr^edlately send It to you.
With bcrt personal rtrer i£.
Slncerelv vours.
Xlchael -^j egnola
AUTC. IHCNO. DICT. CO.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16931
EiXHiBiT No. 7B
Septemberl^th, 1914-8
Mr. Frank Zlto
i^odern ^distributing ^ot pny
22S North 5th Street
Sprinr.field, Illinois
Dear Sir:
Enclosed is a copy of our associauion by-laws.
I am sorry about the delay, but they were our last
copy and were just ret'orned to us. We haven't yet
had time to nake more copies so please return thir
one when you have finished with it.
If you would like any other
glad to help you in any way
information I'll be
I can.
Liest regards.
Sincerely vonrr.^
AUTOMATIC rri'....u.-:-...in DIST.
. CO.
Michael
Spagnola
MS/VM
■-%:<>.xiifmmm
mt
16932 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 8
February 26, 19^1
Mr, W. S. Dlvlnnell
■/•Inneapollc -eciirltiea Corp,
121U. hiymouth -ulldlnc
Minneaj.olli;, •Issesota
^ear Jill:
I aj^preciate your good intentions in sending me
the Information you did on Modern Jlatributlng Co,
and on '!lke -eros. I muat confess that we already-
knew as muchy but we also hatre other knowledge
which Influenced us to accept the deals. We have
personal knowledge of the Zlto Brothers, and know
thf.lr connections, politically and otherwise, I
don't expect any more contracts with them cut if
it shouH be necessary I know the risk involved
would be as good as any we have ever had. The
Keros deal involves one more AMI, and the contract
will probably be forthcoming this week* The f irat
phonograph was not for his lace of business as you
might have supposed, Mr. Ktros and his son
operate a small juke box route in addition to the
store, I know the location where one of the phono-
graphs is placed, and the Incone from that one
machine will be more than enough to cover the payment*
on both contracts.
Sincerely yours.
Automatic Phonograph Diet. Co.
I'ichael Spagnola
MS/pd
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16933
Exhibit No. 10
? Nf' ' *« • !
C^^^^-yTC^ 1^
16934 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 23
\nited <sfndustnai LCrnons
I NEVINS STREET • BROOKLYN 17, N. Y.
MAIN 4>0491
August Ih^ l^^7
Hf. Al Cohen
ii«wal 531, UIU
2115 Utica Ave.
firoo!cl:m, 'Hl
l>«ar Al:
Pursuant to oxvr conversation at w.y office,
laia exercising my authority as President of the 'Jnited
Industrial Unions, to apnoint temporary officers for
Local 531.
i
I am dosignatinp Sylvia Goldberg as President
and Hr, Al Cohen as Secretary-Treasi:iror, It Is ujidor-
stood that these positions are appointed until youi* ran3r
and file meeting where permanent officers shall e
Slectod.
LaKoeco,
[imUSTRIAL IHTIONS
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16935
Exhibit No. 26
^,^^,j2,J^^ ^M^'^ ^^/>u<^ ^crA^.^/^ /^^^^^'^
ct^rvu^
16936 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 37
PAY TO T!-.- or<OZfi OF P
COMMC.^XiAL STATE BANK
AND TRUST CC;,.?ANY OF NEW YORK
: iSTATION "M", INC.
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16937
Exhibit No. 87 A
16938 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD
Exhibit No. 37B
TWINING 9-6677 1^
STATION "M" Inc.
9&-S1 HORACE HARDING BLVD.
REGO PARK 74. N. Y.
PCTER M. MARGULES
IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 16939
Ex H HUT No. 46
•»
• • • • •
^^cUnlral ZJraalnq (corporation
127 Avenue d - algonouim 4-2232 - New York 9. N. Y.
Sept 2, 1949.
Mr» Irving Mishel,
Zenith Assoclliies,
570 - 7th Ave. ,
New York City.
Dear Mr, Mishel:
The following three accounts dont look as if thej are
collectable. Therefore, I am charging these (3) off as "bad debts".
If they are collected in the future I will credit your account of
20^ of any receipts. They are as follows:
Petey ^^ck $10,595.00
Spunky 700.00
Milton Kay 310.00
Total.. $11,605.00
The present losses up +o date are $4.3,94X).00. To be added
to this sum is §11,605.00. This makes a total of $55,545.00 as
bad debts up to date.
Up to $50,000.00, aTter deducting Josepii Paige's share of
20fj, your share comes to 25^ of the balance. Now that the amount has
exceeded $50,000.00, Joseph Paige's share is reduced to 10^, and you
will be charged 25/5 after deducting 10^ of any future losses. Your
share of this will now come to as follows.:
(a) On the balance up to $50,000,00 is $6,060,00, your
share 20% equals $1,212.00.
(B) Oa. the biiance which is $554-5.00, 1056 for Paige's
equals $554.00. The balance of $4991.00 which 25/S for I.M. is
$1247.75 or a total of $2459.75, *l[vided over 6 months comes to
$410.00 eaah note«
As it stands now, you owe ne $625.00 plus this $410,00
vrtiich is now being added, making that $1035.00, or $35.00 due me
each month. Any monies v^ich I am receiving from Ben Zuckerman and
Aleirt, at present, I shall credit your account and send you a check
each month to keep the records straight.
Very truly yours.
lAL TRADING C(RP.
CB/ibl
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