Skip to main content

Full text of "Investigation of organized crime in interstate commerce. Hearings before a Special Committee to Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, United States Senate, Eighty-first Congress, second session, pursuant to S. Res. 202 .."

See other formats


1 



r. 



'■ 



cM>HV6775_A53 



pt. I-A 
Copy 2 




*£ 



a 1 







INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME 
IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE A 

SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE 

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FIRST CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 
AND 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 

S. Res. 202 

(81st Congress) 
A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AN INVESTIGATE 
OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 
COMMERCE 



PART 1-A 



FLORIDA 



NOVEMBER 28; DECEMBER 28, 29, 30, 1950; 
FEBRUARY 16, 17, 22, 1951 



Printed for the use of the Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce 




INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME 
IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE A 



SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE 

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FIRST CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



AND 



EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 

S. Res. 202 

(81st Congress) 

A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AN INVESTIGATION 

OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 

PART 1-A 
FLORIDA 

NOVEMBER 28; DECEMBER 28, 29, 30, 1950; 
FEBRUARY 16, 17, 22, 1951 

Printed for the use of the Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
168958 WASHINGTON : 1951 






SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE ORGANIZED CRI 
INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee, Chairman 
HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland CHARLES W. TOBEY, New Hampshire 

LESTER C. HUNT, Wyoming ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

Rodolph Hallet, Chief Counsel 
II 



CONTENTS 



Testimony of — PaBe 

Beaslev, M. C, chief of police, Tampa, Fla 80-89 

Bowers, George L., Miami, Fla 264-302 

Caton, Noah W., Tampa, Fla 71-80 

Clarkson, Girth C., Tampa, Fla 131-136 

Culbreath, Hugh, sheriff, Hillsborough County, Fla., accompanied by 

William C. Pierce, attorney, Tampa, Fla 164-166, 186-233, 345-393 

Deschamps, Antonio, Key West, Fla 233-238 

DiLorenzo, Anthonv, Tampa, Fla 167-186 

DiLorenzo, Mrs. Anthony, Tampa, Fla 39-47 

Dugan, Jesse Henry, Jr., Tampa, Fla 253-259 

Farrior, J. Rex, State's attorney, Hillsborough County, Fla ■ 395-457 

Fowler, Cody, president, American Bar Association, Tampa, Fla 51-55 

Friedlander, Joseph, Miami Beach, Fla., accompanied by Herman E. 

Kohen, attorney, Miami Beach, Fla 302-344 

Giglio, Paul, Tampa, Fla 120-131 

Licata, Tony, Tampa, Fla 150-164 

Founders, Mario, Hialeah, Fla 239-242 

Marvin, Lt. Charles A., United States Army Air Force, Steward Field, 

N. Y 137-150 

Patton, George, former deputy sheriff, Dade County, Fla 2-37 

Perez, Oscar, Miami, Fla 242-253 

Spoto, Vincent, president, and John A. Celava, bookkeeper, Anthony 

Distributors, Tampa, Fla 1 95-106 

Tillman, Hon. Henry C, judge, circuit court, Hillsborough County, 

Fla_ __ _ 56-60,' 259-261 

Tracey, Oswald C, St. Petersburg, Fla 89-95 

Wall, Charles M., Tampa, Fla., accompanied by Pat Whitaker, 

attorney, Tampa, Fla 60-7 1 

Wescott, David F., manager, Wilson & Co., Tampa, Fla., accom- 
panied by Ray C. Brown, attorney, Tampa, Fla 106-120 

Schedule of exhibits iv 

Tuesday, November 28, 195f 1 

Thursday, December 28, 19-' 39 

Friday, December 29, 1950___ 49 

Saturday, December 30, 1950 167 

Friday, February 16, 1951 263 

Saturday, February 17, 1951 345 

Thursday, February 22, 1951 395 

Appendix 459 

in 



IV 



CONTENTS 
SCHEDULE OF EXHIBITS 



Number and summary of exhibits 



1. Statement of George Patton, former deputy sheriff, Dade 

County, Fla., given at Washington, D. C, Nov. 11, 1950. _ 

2. Chart showing "Organized gambling in Tampa" 

3. Chart indicating "Enforcement of gambling laws" 

4. Chart entitled "Interstate links of Mafia crime with Tampa" _ 

5. Photostat of deed of property, dated July 6, 1946, from Leo- 

pold Czekalski and wife, Helen, to Anthony Distributors 

6. Tax bills and other papers submitted by Noah W. Caton, re 

Pass-a-Grille Fish Co 

7. Records introduced by M. C. Beaslev, chief of police, Tampa, 

Fla 

8. Photostat of deed of property by John Torrio and wife, to 

Hugh Culbreath and wife, dated Oct. 8, 1945 

9. Records of Anthony Distributors, submitted by Vincent 

Spoto, president 

10. Slips of p.aper with names of alleged bolita peddlers in Tampa, 

Fla., identified by Lt. Charles A. Marvin 

11. Lists of bolita bankers and their peddlers in Tampa, Fla 

12. Financial records of Hugh L. Culbreath, sheriff, Hillsborough 

County, Fla 

13. Entire text of Sheriff Culbreath's answer to testimony of 

sworn witnesses re gambling operations in Hillsborough 
County, Fla 

14. Letter dated Feb. 15, 1951, from J. Rex Farrior, State attor- 

ney, Tampa, Fla., to the chairman of the committee, ac- 
companied by affidavit re situation in Tampa 



3 

71 

71 
71 

76 

79 

94 

94 

10 



396 



Appears 




459 

482 
48' 
4F 



0) 



488 



497 



1 Returned to witness. 

2 On file with committee. 

3 Turned over to grand jury. 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Washington, D. G. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9 : 15 a. m., in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Lester C. Hunt presiding. 

Present : Senators Hunt, Tobey, and Wiley. 

Also present : Rudolph Halley, chief counsel ; John Burling, Downey 
Rice, Joseph L. Xellis, and Alfred M. Klein, assistant counsel; and 
John N. McCormick, investigator. 

Senator Hunt. The committee will come to order. 

This is a further public hearing of the Special Senate Committee 
on Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce. I am acting as chair- 
man today in the absence of Senator Kefauver, who was unavoidably 
detained. 

In this morning's hearing, the committee will receive the testimony 
of Mr. George Patton, who was until recently a deputy sheriff of 
Dade County, Fla. 

As everyone knows, this committee has already delved rather 
deeply into the problem of organized crime, and especially of 
organized gambling in Dade County. Fla., and it is believed that 
Mr. Patton's testimony concerning gambling in and around Dade 
County, and the corruption of public officials in connection with 
gambling, will round out and add details to the picture heretofore 
presented in the open hearings of the committee. 

The witness is expected to unfold a startling detailed account of 
bribery on the part of gamblers in the Miami area of so-called law- 
enforcement officers. 

Much of the story which this witness is expected to tell will relate 
to his own experiences; that is to say, payoff's he himself received, 
conversations with fellow officers and gamblers. This is direct 
evidence. 

Some of the parts of the story which the witness is expected to tell 
relate to things which he did not experience but was told about in the 
gambling world of Dade County. This is hearsay evidence, and it 
should be judged as such. 

As to the direct evidence, the witness is swearing under oath to the 
things he swears did happen. As to the hearsay evidence, all the 
witness is swearing to is what some other person told him about things 
that happened. 



2 ORGANIZED CRIM& IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

With a witness who was as close to the center of activities in the 
Miami area as this witness was, however, we think that it is fair 
to hear the witness' testimony of the hearsay, with this caution which 
I have just mentioned. 

I might add a word as to why the committee is commencing a 
hearing at this hour. 

The committee wants to be sure to finish with this witness today 
because he is also under subpena to testify in Dade County Criminal 
Court. The committee agreed with the judge of that court to be 
through today, so the court's subpena then could be honored. 

I want to put on the record the fact that there is no impropriety 
whatever associated with Mr. Patton's remaining in Washington to 
testify today. He was placed under subpena of the Senate by the 
committee, and he came to Washington to answer this subpena. 

It had originally hoped to hold this hearing some weeks ago. 
The committee went out to the west coast before that could be 
arranged, and the witness has been waiting here until the committee's 
return. This was the first day that we could arrange the hearing. 

His presence here in Washington for the past 3 weeks or so was 
compelled by our subpena, and there was nothing else he could law- 
fully do but wait to testify here, which he has willingly done, and I 
will now ask Mr. Patton to take the witness chair. 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Patton. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE PATTON, MIAMI BEACH, FLA. 

Mr. Burling. Mr. Patton, while you have been in Washington, have 
you prepared a written statement of your transactions and experiences 
in Florida? 

Mr. Patton. I have, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Mr. Patton, I show you a document and ask you to 
examine it. Have you initialed each page of that document? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; I have. I have initialed it as I have reread it. 

Mr. Burling. And have you signed the last page ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; I did, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Will you read through the entire document to make 
sure that each page is initialed by you ? 

Mr. Patton. It has all been initialed. 

Mr. Burling. By you ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And is that an account of your work and your 
experiences in Miami or in Dade County ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Is the material contained in that statement true? 

Mr. Patton. Pardon, sir? 

Mr. Burling. Are the statements contained therein true to the best 
of your knowledge and belief ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; they are. 

Mr. Burling. Were any promises made to you by any representa- 
tive of this committee of any sort whatever in connection with your 
giving the committee that statement? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 3 

Mr. Patton. There were no promises made whatsoever. 

Mr. Burling. Were you offered any money of any kind ? 

Mr. Patton. None at all. 

Mr. Burling. Or anything else of value ? 

Mr. Patton. Nothing at all. 

Mr. Burling. Was any duress employed of any sort in connection 
with your making that statement ? 

Mr. Patton. No ; I may go on record that this is my own voluntary 
statement. 

Mr. Burling. And you affirm the truth of the matters contained 
therein ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the document be reecived 
as exhibit No. 1. 

Senator Hunt. The document will be received and marked as ex- 
hibit No. 1 for the record. 

(Statement of work and experiences of George Patton was marked 
"Exhibit No. 1," and appears in the appendix on p. 459.) 

Senator Wiley. What is this document ? 

Senator Hunt. The document is a statement by the witness who is 
now testifying, Mr. Patton, a former law-enforcement officer of Dade 
County, Fla. It is with reference to his activities as a law-enforce- 
ment officer during his term of service. 

Mr. Burling. Mr. Patton, you were born in Pittsburgh, Pa., on 
May 10, 1919 ; is that correct? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. What was your name at the time you were born ? 

Mr. Patton. My name was Petemezas, George Petemezas. 

Mr. Burling. And about a year ago you changed your last name 
to Patton? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. From the time you were born, roughly speaking, until 
the time you went into the Army, you lived in Pittsburgh? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Burling. And you volunteerd for service in the United States 
Army in March 1941 ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Thereafter you volunteerd for service with the OSS ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And then you served behind the German lines with 
the OSS in Yugoslavia ; is that correct % 

Mr. Patton. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Burling. In combat? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. You were honoraby discharged from the United 
States Army after hostilities ceased? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. After some short jobs you had elsewhere, you moved 
to Miami ; is that correct? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Did there come a time when you joined the police 
department of Miami Beach? 

Mr. Patton. I did not hear that, sir. 



4 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Burling. Did there come a time when you joined the police de- 
partment in Miami Beach? 

Mr. Patton. I joined the police department approximately in No- 
vember of 1946. 

Mr. Burling. And you served on the Miami Beach police force dur- 
ing the season 1046-47 and 1947-48 ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Will you state what was your first beat? 

Mr. Patton. I did not hear that, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did you become a patrolman ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; I did become a patrolman in Miami Beach, the 
Miami Beach Police Department. 

Mr. Burling. What beat did you first have ? 

Mr. Patton. My first beat in Miami Beach covered Collins Avenue 
between Twenty-seventh Street and Forty-fourth Street and back 
down on Indian Creek Drive. 

Mr. Burling. Was it the practice of the police force there to have a 
night patrolman on a beat but also covered by a squad car? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; that was it. 

Mr. Burling. Who were the squad-car men who covered the same 
beat you did with reference to your first beat? 

Mr. Patton. Well, the schedule varied at various times down there. 
It changed month to month. However, occasionally the same men' 
stayed in the same squad car, and the beatman used to stay on that 
same beat unless something drastic happened where it was caused 
to remove him. 

Mr. Burling. Can you tell the committee anything about the prac- 
tice of the patrolmen and squad-car men on that beat while you were 
assigned to it with respect to enforcing closing hours of bars and 
similar establishments? 

Mr. Patton. Curfew for dancing or rather for music was 12 o'clock 
midnight; and insofar as bars were concerned, there was a 2 o'clock 
curfew, which is a State liquor ruling. Of course, a lot of these small 
cocktail lounges in these individual hotels wanted to keep their music 
playing because, what few customers they could hold onto, that was 
the only way they could possibty hold onto them, which was by having 
a little bit of music. 

Various hotels had juke boxes, while other hotels, the larger ones, 
had small bands; and, of course, if at 12 o'clock the music would stop, 
why, that would mean that their customers would leave. 

Consequently, arrangements were made with the beatman if the 
beatman came upon it, and he told them to close their music, why, 
of course, the concessionaires running the cocktail lounges would try 
to make arrangements for the beatman to receive a small gratitude at 
the end of the week. 

Mr. Burling. You mean "gratitude" or bribe, Mr. Patton? 

Mr. Patton. Well, I should say "bribe." 

Mr. Burling. Did you receive any such bribes on that beat ? 

Mr. Patton. I did on several occasions; yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did you share such bribes with other patrolmen or 
squad-car men? 

Mr. Patton. Squad-car boys, of course, covered quite a bigger terri- 
tory than what I covered on foot and bicycle, and at times I received 
small portions of what they had collected at the end of the week. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 5 

Mr. Burling. While you were on that beat, what is your best recol- 
lection as to the amount of money that the squad-car men and the 
patrolmen took in from that beat ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, for the short time that I was on that beat on 
Collins Avenue, I received, I would say, on several occasions, about $50 
from the squad car. 

Mr. Burling. That is, they would give you as your share $50 a 
week? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Did you receive money yourself directly? 

Mr. Patton. From several places; yes. 

Mr. Burling. AVould you share that also? 

Mr. Patton. No. 

Mr. Burling. There came a time, did there not, when you found a 
floating crap game on the beat? 

Mr. Patton. That happened while walking a beat in the vicinity of 
Collins Avenue, between Seventy-first Street and Seventy-fifth Street. 
There was a small Italian restaurant the name of which I don't remem- 
ber at the present time, which had a room on the second floor in the 
rear of the building. There was quite a large crap game, and when 
I found that out, I called upon my superior and told him about that 
game. 

Mr. Burling. What is his name, Mr. Patton ? 

Mr. Patton. His name was Lt. Joseph Brennan. I told him about 
that game, and evidently he must have known about it or didn't want 
to do anything about it, because 

Mr. Burling. What did he say when you told him about it? 

Mr. Patton. He told me to get what I could get out of it and just 
mind my own business. 

Mr. Burling. I see. What did you do? 

Mr. Patton. Well, about a day later, or a night later I should say, 
one of the men who ran the game met me on the outside of this little 
Italian restaurant and handed me a $50 bill. 

Mr. Burling. Did you split that with anyone? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir; I didn't. 

Mr. Blrling. Is it a fact that you reported the name of a suspect 
in a robbery case, a case in which the Park Avenue Restaurant was 
robbed ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Burling. Did you learn what happened after you had reported 
the name of this suspect? 

Mr. Patton. Well, at the time I reported the name of the suspect 
to the chief of detectives, who was then Chief Carpenter, I asked him 
if it was possible for me to work on that case in plain clothes for a 
while to see what else I could uncover, and I was very much repri- 
manded by him for even wanting or even thinking about doing some- 
thing like that : and I gave him the name of the man, and a few days 
later, or perhaps a week later, I went looking for this man again, and 
I heard from a source that he had been picked up by two of the detec- 
tives, and that was the last that was ever heard of him. 

Mr. Burling. You mean he was picked up and arrested or booked? 

Mr. Patton. No, he was not booked that I know of. 

Mr. Burling. What did you hear? 



6 ORGAMZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Patton. I heard that he had been sent back to New York where 
he came from. 

Mr. Burling. In other words, the detectives did not arrest him 
and book him, bnt permitted him to depart from Miami voluntarily? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Without being arrested. 

Will you tell the committee whether or not it was, within your per- 
sonal knowledge, the practice of the police force or of certain members 
of it or detectives on the squad, when they knew the whereabouts of 
wanted criminals to take them into custody and then receive money 
and escort them out of town without booking them? 

Mr. Patton. I made that in the form of a statement, and when I 
made that statement, of course, I made it on the basis of hearsay, and 
what I had known and picked up from information from the other 
men in the police station. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Patton, I wonder would you try to speak up 
just a little louder? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. It is just a little difficult for me to understand what 
you are saying, and I expect the people back of you cannot understand. 

Mr. Burling. In other words, it would be the practice, according 
to what your fellow officers told you, if they knew that someone was 
wanted, it would be their practice to go out, take custody of that 
man, then receive the money from him in return for not booking him, 
and then escorting him out of town ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Senator Wiley. Was that for petty offenses or major offenses or 
both, or what? 

Mr. Patton. I would say those actually shaken down for any great 
amount of money were felons that were violators of paroles that had 
left their State where they were paroled from, and had come into Mi- 
ami and had been picked up by detectives, and that is the way the case 
went sir. 

Senator Wiley. Well, of course, the common practice in many places 
when some of these fellows come in from other cities is to get them 
out. In this case you think they committed crimes, and they paid to 
get out ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, yes. because in Miami Beach there is a city or- 
dinance that any felon who comes into that city has to make a criminal 
registration, and 50 percent of them, or even a greater percentage of 
them, never did register with the police department, and when these 
detectives would pick them up and would check their criminal records 
to see whether or not they had made criminal registration, why, they 
would find that they had not made it, and the first thing they would 
talk up a little bit of business. 

Senator Wiley. Then it was not that they had committed any par- 
ticular offense, except that they failed to register ? 

Mr. Patton. I imagine so, yes. 

Senator Wiley. That is what you mean ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wiley. When they picked them up, they simply booted 
them out of town, but you think they got paid for the boot? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 7 

Mr. Halley. In some cases these felons were wanted for extra- 
dition to other States, Mr. Patton ; isn't that so ? 

Mr. Patton. I imagine that is so. 

Mr. Halley. They were fugitives? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And they were really paying off to prevent being 
locked up and sent up for prosecution? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. A State shake-down racket, in other words? 

Mr. Patton. Right. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

Mr. Burling. Thereafter you left the Miami Beach police force; 
is that correct? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And sometime after that you became a deputy sheriff 
of Dade County ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. When did you become a deputy sheriff ? 

Mr. Patton. I became a deputy sheriff in June of 1948. 

Mr. Burling. Who was the sheriff at that time ? 

Mr. Patton. Sheriff Sullivan. 

Mr. Burling. And you were assigned to inside work for the first 
few months ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Patton. I was assigned as a night jailer. I stayed as a night 
jailer for approximately a month, and then I took over the desk job 
at night, which meant that I had to keep a transcript of the records 
of the bookings throughout the day, and dispatch cars throughout the 
night, take all complaints and book prisoners in and out of jail. 

Mr. Burling. On March 4, 1949, you were called to Sheriff Sulli- 
van's office ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And the sheriff introduced you to a man whose nick- 
name is "Bing" Crosby ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. And what did Sullivan tell you Crosby was doing 
there? 

Mr. Patton. Sheriff Sullivan told me that Mr. Crosby was an 
investigator from the Governor's office, and that I was to accompany 
him wherever he wanted to go, and he also told me that I was to close 
any bookmaking establishment and to arrest and to bring anybody 
in that I arrested or found in the places. 

Mr. Burling. Did Sheriff Sullivan tell you to close every book- 
making establishment in Dade County or in some part of Dade 
County? 

Mr. Patton. No, he said, "Close any bookmaking establishment that 
you run into." 

Mr. Burling. That Crosby wanted closed? 

Mr. Patton. That was the indication. 

Mr. Burling. That is, you were to help Crosby and close any place 
he told you to close ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Did Crosby then tell you where the places that he 
wanted closed were? 



8 ORGANIZED CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Patton. When I started to go with Crosby, and when we would 
leave the courthouse, he would never say directly as to where he 
wanted to go until after we had hit Miami Beach, and once we got 
over the other side of the MacArthur Causeway, why, then he would 
pull out a piece of paper and he would have places he wanted to visit. 

Mr. Burling. Crosby had a list of places he was going to close? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And were any one of those places in any part of Dade 
County except Miami Beach? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir, they were all in Miami Beach. 

Mr. Burling. So far as you knew were there any gambling estab- 
lishments in Dade County outside of Miami Beach? 

Mr. Patton. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Burling. But you did not close any of those at this time? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Mr. Burling. How long did you work with Crosby in raiding places 
in Miami Beach ? 

Mr. Patton. I would say about a week, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did you raid any place except the places which were 
on Crosby's list ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. I raided several other places on the beach 
when Crosby was not with me. I mean, there was a general clean-up 
of the beach just about the time that Crosby was there, and if I 
wasn't with Crosby, I would be working with myself or with some 
of the other men on the force, and we 

Mr. Bltrling. In other words, Crosby's arrival on the beach was 
simultaneous with a general shut-down of gambling operations? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You raided the Monroe Towers Hotel, the Henry 
Hotel, 150 Washington Avenue; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Do you recall that in the Washington Avenue raid 
you apprehended a woman employee named Annette Kaskin ? 

Mr. Patton. When we made the raid on Washington Avenue, at 
150 Washington Avenue, there were quite a few people working on 
the inside of that establishment, and I recognized this one woman 
as being Annette Raskin. 

Mr. Burling. Were you acquainted with her husband ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. In fact, he was a former colleague of yours on the 
Miami Beach police force; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. By the way, Crosby's name did not appear, did it, 
in the court records when you booked persons who were arrested dur- 
ing this period ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. As a matter of fact, on several instances 
when we went to file our cases with the county solicitor, he asked for 
Mr. Crosby, and one time he said that he was not going to take any 
cases unless Mr. Crosby had made his appearance. Now, whether 
Crosby ever did or not, I don't know, but, however, he never did make 
an appearance when I was filing my cases with the county solicitor. 

Mr. Burling. Crosby never told you what his purpose was in mak- 
ing these raids at this time, did he ? 

Mr. Patton. No. sir; he never did. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 9 

Mr. Burling. So far as you knew, it was a straight law-enforcement 
job? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bukung. Except that he was only closing places on the beach, 
not elsewhere in the county ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Senator Wiley. Would prosecution follow? 

Mr. Patton. I beg your pardon, sir? 

Senator Wiley. Did prosecution follow? 

Mr. Patton. In some cases; yes, sir. 

Senator W t iley. Well, didn't Crosby appear to testify? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Senator Wiley. You did the testifying? 

Mr. Patton. I did some of the testifying myself on cases that I had 
been on ; yes, sir. 

Senator Wiley. You say some cases. Weren't they all prosecuted 
that you knew were gambling places? 

Mr. Patton. Well, when I say "some cases," I know of only one that, 
perhaps, was thrown out on the basis of the testimony given by one 
of the other deputies that was with me on the raid. 

Senator Wiley. What I am getting at is then except for one case 
all of those that you raided were prosecuted, and they paid fines. 

Mr. Patton. I can't say whether or not they were all prosecuted, 
sir. 

Senator Wiley. All right. 

Mr. Burling. You told the Senator cases were prosecuted. Do you 
mean successfully prosecuted and convictions obtained, or you mean 
something went on in the court ? 

Mr. Patton. Repeat that question again, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did you mean successfully prosecuted or brought to 
trial? 

Mr. Patton. They were brought to trial. 

Mr. Burling. Were they successfully prosecuted; that is, a convic- 
tion obtained for all of them ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir; so far as I remember. 

Mr. Burling. All of them? 

Mr. Patton. Those that I was connected with, those that I was on 
raids, had been on raids. 

Senator Wiley. Was there ever any explanation given you why all 
of them were not raided? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Senator Wiley. Why some were favored and some were not? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Senator Wiley. Do you know whether any of those that were not 
raided paid off for protection? 

Mr. Patton. At that time, sir, I would not know. I was just new 
at the job, and I didn't know what the connections were or what they 
had been doing in the past or what they were doing at the present 
time of the raids. 

Senator Wiley. Your point is that the sheriff told you that you 
should simply close down those places that Crosby indicated ; is that it ? 

Mr. Patton. He didn't exactly say that I should close the places 
that Crosby indicated; he just told me, "Go with Crosby and help 



10 ORGANIZE© CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

him and close any bookie establishment that you find, and arrest the 
people." 

Now, after I left the office and went with Crosby, why then, he indi- 
cated that he wanted to work strictly on the beach. 

Senator Wiley. Why didn't you go down to close all of them ? Why 
didn't you think this was a mandate to close all of them? 

Mr. Patton. Why didn't I do that, sir? I was only one man, sir; 
I could not cover the whole Dade County at that time. 

Mr. Burling. After about a week Crosby left the Miami area ; is that 
right? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And when he left he told you that he had been pleased 
with your work and that he would mention you favorably in his report 
to the Governor ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. After he left you were put back on inside work run- 
ning a telephone switchboard; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You were not encouraged to go on with your good 
work and close up the rest of the places ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You were put inside the sheriff's office ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did Crosby ask you to send him anything when he 
left? 

Mr. Patton. After he left — I had talked to him by long-distance 
phone — and at that time he told me to write him a letter as to what 
was going on. I wrote him a letter and told him that the conditions 
were the same as they were before he made his appearance in Miami, 
and I also told him who I thought was responsible for most of it 
going on. 

Mr. Burling. You were asked a moment ago whether all the cases 
that were made while you were raiding with Crosby were prosecuted. 
Do you recall a case at the Henry Hotel ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, now, that is the one I indicated that, perhaps, 
was thrown out — that is, that no information was filed on, because 
of the testimony given by one of the other deputies that was with me. 

Now, I was in on that raid at the Henry Hotel, and Crosby was 
with me, and another deputy was with me. We made the raid suc- 
cessfully ; we took in two men and booked them. 

Mr. Burling. Who was the other deputy ? 

Mr. Patton. A deputy by the name of Bill Thompson. 

Mr. Burling. Was there anything illegal in the way in which you 
gained entry into the hotel ? 

Mr. Patton. None whatsoever. We were let in by the doorman 
himself. 

Mr. Burling. And the arrests were lawful ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. But the prosecution did not succeed, did it? 

Mr. Patton. Insofar as I know it did not, because I have never 
testified in that case, either before the county solicitor to file the in- 
formation, or in the court to prosecute. 

Mr. Burling. Well, isn't it the fact that your fellow deputy, Thomp- 
son, told you that he had succeeded in having the case nolle prossed ? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 11 

Mr. Patton. No ; that is not the way it went. The way that came 
about, it seems that Thompson had raided a bookie establishment 
that belonged to a brother-in-law of Mr. Burke, and Mr. Burke 
and Thompson were arguing quite a bit about it, and sometime after 
that Burke came out to me, while I was on the phones, and showed 
me where the case had been thrown out or nolle prossed, and wanted 
to know if that was not the one that I was on with Bill Thompson 
and Crosby. I told him, "Yes." 

He said, "Boy" — well, he said, "Boy, you had better talk with 
somebody to get your cut out of it," because, he says, "Here it is on 
black and white, it was thrown out." 

Mr. Burling. Just a moment. This Burke you are speaking of 
is also a deputy sheriff? 

Mr. Patton. He was at the time. 

Mr. Burling. And Burke told you that you ought to get your 
cut because this case had been thrown out ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And then you went and asked Thompson about it? 

Mr. Patton. Then I went and asked Thompson about it, and he 
told me that he would get my end of it, and about a week later I 
got something like $50 or $75, 1 don't remember. 

Mr. Burling. From whom? 

Mr. Patton. From Thompson. 

Mr. Burling. That is, your share in the cut which was received 
for getting this case thrown out? 

Mr. Patton. I imagine so ; yes. 

Mr. Burling. So, at least with respect to that case it was not suc- 
cessfully prosecuted ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Senator Wiley. What are the facts? Did the district attorney 
move to dismiss or enter a nolle prosse, or was there evidence taken and 
did the court dismiss, or what were the facts ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, sir, that is just the point. I don't know, because 
I never went before the county solicitor to testify and file the informa- 
tion in this raid. 

Senator Wiley. From whom did you get your money ? 

Mr. Patton. I got my money from Bill Thompson, the deputy that 
I made the raid with. 

Senator Wiley. Deputy sheriff \ 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wiley. What did he tell you when he gave you the money? 

Mr. Patton. He didn't tell me much of anything at all, sir. He was 
very reluctant to admit to the fact that he had gotten anything, to 
begin with, and about a week later after I had talked to him, why, he 
came up with the money. 

Mr. Burling. That is to say, the raid was conducted on the premises 
of the deputy sheriff's brother-in-law? 

Mr. Patton. Not that particular raid; no, sir. The Henry Hotel 
is on the beach; Bill Thompson had conducted another raid, which 
was on the bookie establishment that was owned by Tom Hodges, 
which is a brother-in-law of Burke. 

Mr. Burling. Coming to Labor Day in September 1949, did you 
go out on another raid? Didn't you raid the Latin American Club 
at 128 First Avenue, Miami ? 



12 ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. After that you were transferred to the criminal divi- 
sion of the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; shortly after that. 

Mr. Burling. At that time the chief criminal deputy was Claude 
High I 

Mr. Patton. Not insofar as title is concerned. He assumed the 
position of chief criminal deputy. He took over the major operation 
of the whole office while Chief Hawkins was still acting as chief, but 
working on the desk. 

Mr. Burling. Shortly before that, is it correct that Jim Hawkins 
was Deputy Sheriff Hawkins, and had been in charge of gambling 
enforcement? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. That was taken away from Hawkins, that authority, 
and given to High; is that correct? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Had Crosby told you anything while he was working 
with you earlier about whether or not he wanted to have Hawkins 
have supervision over gambling enforcement? 

Mr. Patton. No; he didn't indicate insofar as wanting Hawkins 
to be at the head of the gambling enforcement. However, he did 
indicate that neither Hawkins nor Burke had cooperated with him 
while in Miami, and something had to be done about it. 

Mr. Burling. You mean Crosby said Hawkins had not cooperated? 

Mr. Patton. Had not cooperated. 

Mr. Burling. And he wanted him out? 

Mr. Patton. He indicated as much ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Is it a fact that various bookmakers had told you 
that they were glad to see Hawkins go because he squeezed them hard? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Can you name the bookmakers who told you that ? 

Mr. Patton. Offhand ; no, sir. It has been some time — it has been 
over a year ago. 

Mr. Burling. But you have a clear recollection that some book- 
makers told you they were glad to have Hawkins out ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. About a month after you yourself were transferred 
to the criminal division you received a telephone call from Leo Levin- 
son ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. Leo Levinson ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And he told you someone important wanted to meet 
you ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Did you make an appointment to meet Levinson at 
night in the vicinity of a drug store on Southwest Eighth Street near 
First or Second Avenue ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Burling. And he then introduced you to Jack Friedlander; 
right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. What did Friedlander say to you ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 13 

Mr. Pattox. Friedlander wanted me to know that he was glad to 
know that I was in the criminal division, and that he would try very 
hard or very earnestly to get me on the gambling squad. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know what Friedlander's business was ? He 
was a gambler, was he not? 

Mr. Pattox. Pardon me ? 

Mr. Halley. Friedlander was a gambler himself, was he not ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

Senator Wiley. Where was he from? 

Mr. Pattox. At that time I didn't know, but since then I found 
that he is originally from New Jersey. 

Senator Wiley. This is the first time in the testimony so far that 
}'ou have shown any out-of-State connections. Are you going to go; 
into that later on ? I have got to go to Foreign Relations at 10 o'clock, 
and I was wondering whether there were any of these fellows that you 
met. up with from out of the State or showed any out-of-State influence 
or connections in these gambling matters ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, yes, sir. I later on met Harry Russell, who* 
Avas from Chicago, and George Bowers. I don't know whether he 
was from the State of Florida or whether he was from out of town. 

Senator Wiley. What were their connections, would you say? 

Mr. Pattox. Well, it is very evident now that Harry Russell came 
into Miami Beach from Chicago, and with the help of Crosby and 
with the influence of whoever controlled the wire service, why, he cut 
himself in on the S. & G. Syndicate. 

Senator Wiley. Did you know whether or not those places raided,, 
were raided in connection with S. & G. ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes; they were. 

Senator Wiley. They were? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Senator Wiley. And the other places that were not raided were 
not so connected? 

Mr. Pattox. I am — I would not want to say, sir, whether they were 
connected or not; but I do know that the major raids that were con- 
ducted were on S. & G. Syndicate operations. 

Senator Wiley. That is all. 

Senator Huxt. Mr. Patton, when you first met Friedlander, j 7 ou 
said to him that you did not want to participate in anything in any 
way that would hurt the sheriff? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Senator Huxt. You meant Sheriff Sullivan? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right, sir. 

Senator Huxt. And now Friedlander said to you that you did not 
need to worry about that ; that nobody was going to hurt the sheriff? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right. 

Senator Huxt. What was your interest in not hurting the sheriff ? 
Because he was your boss ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes; that is primarily the one thing that I had in 
mind. What I knew of the sheriff, what little I knew of him, he had, 
treated me fine ; he had given me a job. 

Senator Huxt. He had what? 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 2 



14 ORGANIZED' CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Patton. He had treated me well by giving me a job. Of course, 
at that time I was still green as to what was going on, not knowing 
what the affairs of the office were or what his connections were with 
outsiders ; but still, in all, I just didn't want to participate in anything 
that would hurt him eventually. 

Senator Hunt. Last evening I read most of your statement. I did 
not quite get to finish it. At this time do you want to tell the com- 
mittee whether or not you at any time yourself, with your own eyes, 
:Saw any of this money paid directly to Jimmy Sullivan? 

Mr. Patton. No; I have never witnessed any pay-off directly to 
Sheriff Sullivan. 

Senator Hunt. That is all. 

Mr. Burling. Shortly after your meeting with Friedlander 

Senator Wiley. Just a moment. You say you never saw any money 
paid. Have you any information that money was paid to the sheriff? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Senator Wiley. Hearsay or otherwise? 

Mr. Patton. Hearsay, yes. I have heard that he had a businessman 
that was representing him as his collector. I knew that Friedlander 
was collecting from these various gambling establishments, but as to 
how and where the money was given to the sheriff, if at all, I don't 
know, sir; but I had heard that an outsider, someone that was well 
up in the business world, was representing the sheriff insofar as 
getting the money. Now, whether that is true or not, I cannot swear 
to it. 

Senator Wiley. What do you mean by "outsider" ? 

Mr. Patton. Someone that was not a gambler ; a well-known busi- 
nessman, let us say. I mean, that is the way it went. 

Senator Hunt. Do you happen to know the name of that well- 
known businessman? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. I mean, I suspect, but I can't — I have no 
foundation to actually come out and tell the man's name. 

Senator Wiley. Well, you were told by others that the sheriff was 
cutting in through some collector; isn't that a fact? 

Mr. Patton. That the sheriff had what, sir ? 

Senator Wiley. Was getting his cut through some collector. 

Mr. Patton. From some well-known businessman that was collect- 
ing the money for him from Friedlander. 

Senator Wiley. Did he intimate how much ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Senator Wiley. Who was it who told you that ? 

Mr. Patton. Offhand, sir, I wouldn't know who told me that at the 
present time. I mean, I could possibly think for a little while, and I 
may be able to think about his name. 

Senator Wiley. Did it come from more than one source ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. It is common knowledge; I mean, it is more or 
less thought of as being one particular man that was probably his 
-contact down there in Miami. I mean, it is a man that he is well 
associated with ; that he is very friendly with, and most of the time, 
if you ever want to find the sheriff, why, you know where to find him. 

Senator Hunt. What business is this man in ? 

Mr. Patton. May I go off the record a moment, sir, and talk to 
:Somebody about that ? 

Senator Hunt. Yes ; you can go off the record. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 15 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Patton, do you care to give me the address of 
this gentleman ? 

Mr. Patton. Sir, I have talked this matter over with one of the 
members of the staff, and I think at the time I would rather hold back 
on it until we had made certain. 

Senator Hunt. All right. I believe we have that information. 

Mr. Patton. O. K., sir. 

Mr. Burling. Shortly after you met Friedlander you were called by 
a lawyer in Miami Beach, called Ben Cohen; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir; I was. 

Mr. Burling. He asked you to go to his office ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Did you know at the time what Ben Cohen's principal 
client was? 

Mr. Patton. Xo ; I didn't. 

Mr. Burling. Later you learned that his principal client was the 
S. & G. Syndicate ? 

Mr. Patton. I didn't hear that, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You later learned that he represented S. & G. ; is that 
right? 

Mr. Patton. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Burling. Did you know Cohen at that time ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes : I knew Ben Cohen. 

Mr. Burling. Did he tell you that attempts were being made to 
have you placed on the gambling squad ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. Burling. And he told you that he was going to support that ; is 
that right? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. He further told you that he hoped that you could 
become to the sheriff's office what Pat Perdue was to the Miami Beach 
police? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. A one-man gambling squad. 

Mr. Patton. Yes. Not only that, but he meant that insofar as value 
to the syndicate was concerned. 

Mr. Burling. Did he then tell you that he wanted you to meet 
the head man '. 

Mr. Patton. Yes; he did. 

Mr. Burling. He placed a phone call ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. And right after that Harry Russell came in? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. And you did not know him at that time ? 

Mr. Patton. Xo, sir ; I had never met the man. 

Mr. Burling. Cohen introduced you to Russell ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Having done so, he went into another office, leaving 
you alone with Russell? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Russell told you that he was glad to meet you be- 
cause you had helped a friend of his ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 



16 ORGANIZED CRIME, IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Burling. Without specifically naming him, he indicated to 
you he was referring to Crosby? 
Mr. Patton. That is right/ 

Mr. Burling. He told you that the was going to try to have you 
put on the gambling squad also; is that right ? 
Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Then he told vou to be careful and to be as smart as 
Pat Perdue is? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Bl t rling. Further, he told you that no one had paid anything — 
no gambler paid Pat Perdue directly, because his group took care of 
Perdue; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. He told me — he told it to me in this way : He said, 
"Take Pat Perdue, for instance 1 * — he says, "There is not a gambler of 
Miami Beach who can point a finger to him and say that we paid him 
a certain amount of money." 

He said, "Now, anything that you have taken up to this point is all 
right, but from here on out,*' he says, "I don't want you to take any- 
thing from anyone, and we will take care of you as we have taken care 
of others." 

Mr. Burling. In other words, all bribes or protection money was to 
be funneled through either him or his group? 
Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Did you agree to receive bribes through Russell or 
his agents ? 

Mr. Patton. I agreed to go along with what he had to say. 
Mr. Burling. At the end of your conversation with Russell did 
Cohen rejoin you? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; he did. 

Mr. Burling. He told you. did he not, that if you listened to Russell 
and to him you would be a smart boy and have a lot to gain? 
Mr. Patton. That is right. 
Mr. Burling. You recall his saying that ? 
Mr. PxVtton. Pardon, sir. 
Mr. Burling. You recall his saying it ? 
Mr. Patton. Yes, definitely. 

Mr. Burling. And a couple of weeks later you received a phone call 
at home from Leo Levinson ; is that right ? 
Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. He told you that a meeting was being held at Miami 
Beach at which your presence was wanted? 
Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. You then met Levinson and you went with him to 
Harry Russell's house; is that right? 
Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And the people present were you, Levinson, Harry 
Russell, Jack Friedlander, and George Bowers? 

Mr. Patton. I went to the house with Levinson. However, Levin- 
son did not stay there. Those present were myself, Russell, Fried- 
lander, and George Bowers. 

Mr. Burling. You were told that the gamblers in Miami Beach 
had an internal dispute as to who should be put in charge of the sheriff's 
gambling squad; is that correct? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 17 

Mr. Pattox. That was not the gamblers of Miami Beach. There 
Were other factions, other gamblers, that were arguing with the Miami 
Beach crowd as to whom they wanted to be put into the gambling 
squad. 

Mr. Burling. They told you that one faction wanted Deputy 
Sistrunk? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. But this group that you were with wanted you? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burlixg. You were told then, or did you learn later, that the 
faction that wanted Sistrunk in charge of the gambling squad were 
Charlie Thomas. Merrill Yarborough, and Eddie Padgett? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burlixg. This faction wanted Sistrunk and also Deputy Percy 
Brannon? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burlixg. And he is the brother-in-law of Sheriff Sullivan? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right, sir? 

Mr. Burling. In the course of this meeting, did these gamblers — 
you knew that each of those was a gambler ; did you not ? 

Mr. Patton. I did. Of course, I didn't 

Mr. Burling. They did repeat to you what you had been told in 
Cohen's office by Kussell ; that is, that you should keep clean, not 
take any graft from anybody except from them ? 

Mr .Pattox. That is right. 

Mr. Burlixg. That is what they referred to as keeping "clean''; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right. 

Mr. Burlixg. Did they tell you they were still working on the 
project to have you put on the gambling squad ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burlixg. Did they tell you that if you followed their orders — 
that is, do not take graft from anybody else — that they would take 
care of you with respect to bribes which you would lose by following 
those orders until they got you on the gambling squad ? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Bltilixg. Is it a fact in this meeting Bowers said that no matter 
who else might be appointed to the gambling squad, that you were 
the man that they wanted to deal with ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. He emphasized that very much by telling 
me regardless of what the outcome was, that he either had to be one 
of those men or else the deal was off. Now, what he meant by that, 
I don't know. 

Mr. Burlixg. Were you told at this meeting what interest Bowers 
represented ? 

Mr. Pattox. Xo one told me directly, but from the way the con- 
versation was swinging, why, I took it for granted that he was repre- 
senting some Tallahassee or Jacksonville interests. 

Mr. Burlixg. That is to say he mentioned the names of Jackson- 
ville or Tallahassee, but did not mention the names of individual men? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And shortly thereafter it is a fact, is it not, that 
Sistrunk and Brannon were appointed deputies in charge of 
gambling? 



18 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And shortly thereafter, did they conduct a raid 
in which no evidence was found ? 

Mr. Patton. The story I got was that they were told to go out and 
raid a place that was operating a crap game or a card game, and that 
prior to their getting on the scene, that one of the two of them had 
called up this place and had tipped them off which, in turn, angered 
Friedlander very much, and that resulted in having both Sistrunk 
and Brannon taken off of the gambling squad. 

Mr. Burling. At that time you and McLeroy were put on the gam- 
bling squad; is that correct? 

Mr. Patton. We were not on it. We were put on it afterward. 

Mr. Burling. And right after that you had a talk with Jack 
Friedlander about the failure of Sistrunk and Brannon ; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Friedlander told you that he was very angry about 
the failure of this raid ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. And he said, "When I want a raid made I want it 
made"; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. And right after Sheriff Sullivan appointed you and 
McLeroy to gambling you received a phone call, did you not, in which 
you were asked to meet Friedlander at a parking lot? 

Mr. Patton. Was I asked to meet him in the parking lot, you say? 

Mr. Burling. Yes. 

Mr. Patton. Arrangements were made that I meet him in the park- 
ing lot, which is adjacent to the Island Club. 

Mr. Burling. What was the Island Club ? 

Mr. Patton. The Island Club was a gambling casino. 

Mr. Burling. When you went to this parking lot did you see Fried- 
lander alone or was someone with him? Was Harry Russell with 
him ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; Harry Russell was with him that first night. 

Mr. Burling. Did they tell you that they were glad that you had 
been appointed to the gambling squad? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did they tell you that they were responsible for your 
getting the appointment? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; they did. 

Mr. Burling. Of course, the appointment was made by Jimmy 
Sullivan ; was it not ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Do you remember whether either Russell or Fried- 
lander said, "It took a little time and a little work, but we finally 
accomplished it" ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; they did. 

Mr. Burling. Was McLeroy with you at this meeting? 

Mr. Patton. No ; he was not. 

Mr. Burling. Did Russell or Friedlander tell you that they had 
doubts about whether they could control or trust McLeroy ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, they did. 

Mr. Burling. What did you tell them about that ? 



ORGANIZED' CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 19' 

Mr. Pattox. I told them that I thought probably that I could con- 
trol McLeroy. 

Mr. Burling. Now although Brannon had been removed at this 
time from the gambling squad, did he continue to collect the pay-off 
for a short while ? 

Mr. Pattox. Well now, the appointment to the gambling squad of 
myself and McLeroy was prior to the first of the year, and the pay- 
offs for the squad didn't come about until after the first of the year. 
Now, he collected for the first 2 or 3 weeks in January, and then it 
was decided that I would take over and collect the money from Fried- 
lander because of the fact that Brannon was unable to successfully get 
enough money from them to cover the operations that were going on. 

Mr. Burling. That is to say, some deputy sheriffs had a discussion 
in which it was agreed that Brannon should no longer be the collector, 
but that you should take that job, is that right? 

Mr. Pattox. That is correct; and Brannon himself wanted to get 
off of it because he could not make any headway with Friedlander. 

Mr. Burling. Before he got off it, is it a fact that he would receive 
the money in cash and would take it to the sheriff's office and distribute 
it among certain deputies ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes. 

Mr. Burlixg. And you were one of the receiving deputies ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. That is, you took cash from Brannon, which you 
understood that Brannon got from Friedlander? 

Mr. Pattox. I did. 

Mr. Burling. What other deputies were receiving this cash in the 
first weeks in 1950 ? 

Mr. Patton. There was McLeroy, myself, Brannon, Sistrunk, and 
Shields. 

Mr. Burling. What was your share per week? 

Mr. Patton. About $100 a week, I believe it was. 

Mr. Burling. Did the others get the same cut? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. This group of deputies felt that more money could 
be extracted from the gamblers, is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. About the end of January 1950, you became the 
collector ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burlixg. And you continued to the end of January, and then, 
through February and toward the end of March ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burlixg. Of this year ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burlixg. Your usual place to collect the money would be this 
same parking lot behind the Island Club, is that right? 

Mr. Pattox. That is right. 

Mr. Burlixg. The usual practice was for you to meet Friedlander 
or else Friedlander and Russell together ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burlixg. And they would hand you the cash, is that right ? 

Mr. Pattox. That is correct. 



20 ORGANIZED' CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Burling. Sometimes this was varied, and you met Friedlander 
at Forty-first Street and Alton Road on the beach? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; that is right. 

Mr. Burling. What was the average cash payment Friedlander or 
Friedlander and Russell jointly would make to you ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, at the very beginning when I took over the col- 
lection end of it, we started to get $800 a week. 

Mr. Burling. Were you told by Friedlander or Friedlander and 
Russell what this protection was for specifically ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir; I was. 

Mr. Burling. Will you state what your understanding was? 

Mr. Patton. $300 of that was from the S. & G. Syndicate, $300 was 
from the Sunny Isles Casino, and $200 of that was from the operation 
of bolito. 

Mr. Burling. With the exception of bolito, no gambling except 
gambling on Miami Beach was covered by these payments, is that 
right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. That is, you were free to receive payments from 
gamblers off the beach outside of this arrangement ? 

Mr. Patton. They didn't want us to; that is, Friedlander didn't 
want us to, because he was making his collections over on the Miami 
side and, of course, if any of the deputies would cut themselves in on 
the collections from over there on Miami, why, of course, that meant 
less money for him to collect, because the bookmakers would put up 
a squawk and just wouldn't give it to him, that is all. 

But I might add this to it, that the bookmakers would much sooner 
give it to the deputies than to Friedlander because Friedlander was 
not liked at all by any of them. 

Mr. Burling. Did you have an argument in the course of these 
meetings with Friedlander as to whether the payments covered the 
Island Club? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. I talked to him about that, and his answer was, 
"Well, it was due to the fact that I am one of the operators of the 
Island Club, and in view of the fact that I had made the arrangements 
for the collection of the money from the Sunny Isles, and from the 
S. & G. Syndicate, he felt that he did not need to pay for the opera- 
tion covering the Island Club." 

Mr. Burling. Did you agree with him that because of his services 
in organizing bribery that his own club should be let alone ? 

Mr. Patton. I did not agree with him, but I had no other choice. 

Mr. Burling. Whether or not you liked it, you agreed that you 
would leave his club alone ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. There was no doubt in your mind, was there, or no 
doubt was left from what was said by you, Russell and Friedlander, 
that this money, this $800 a week, was in payment for insuring that 
the sheriff's office would not molest the Sunny Isles, S. & G. Syndicate, 
and bolito; that is what you were getting the money for? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Did they not, however, say to you that you would 
occasionally have to make token raids ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME. IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 21 

Mr. Burling. By that they meant that you would either raid some 
place or arrest somebody in order to keep up appearances? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. "Well, that was another reason why Friedlander 
instructed me to tell the other deputies, and also for myself, that we 
were not to take any money from other gamblers because if we had 
then, of course, that would not leave too many people open for arrest. 

Mr. Burling. In other words, Friedlander said to you, in substance, 
that you should not be bribed by all the gamblers in the area because 
you had to arrest somebody in order to keep up appearances? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. He wanted people arrested outside of his group ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Did he also say to you that occasionally token raids 
would have to be made in S. & G. establishments ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. But those raids must be tipped off in advance ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. That is, the place would be called on the telephone 
and told that the raid was going to take place, so that when } T ou would 
go out there there would be no evidence? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. Did you agree to do this; that is, to make token raids 
and to tip off the establishment? 

Mr. Patton. I agreed to go according to his plan, insofar as I was 
able to, and that I would not take the responsibility of any other raids 
that may be pulled on any of these establishments by deputies that 
were not in on the payroll or didn't know what was going on. 

Mr. Burling. What did you do with the money which Friedlander 
and Russell gave you? 

Mr. Patton. I would take it back and distribute it among the other 
deputies. 

Mr. Burling. Will you name them again ? 

Mr. Patton. There was Brannon, Shields, McLeroy, myself, and, 
later on in the picture, Kersey. 

Mr. Burling. How about Sistrunk? 

Mr. Patton. And Sistrunk. 

Mr. Burling. What about Deputy Hughes? Was he included in 
this arrangement ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir; he was not. 

Mr. Blrling. Did he have an arrangement ? 

Mr. Patton. Hughes was a day jailor for quite some time, for sev- 
eral years, in the sheriff's office ; that is, after my coming to the sheriff's 
office, and finally he went into the criminal investigation department, 
and it was while in the criminal investigation department the man 
needed an automobile to operate, and there was a prisoner in jail who 
had a 1949 Mercury that he wanted to sell, and Hughes, not having 
the money, approached Friedlander. Friedlander gave him enough 
money to make a down payment, and Hughes thereafter collected $100 
a month in order to pay for his monthly finance. 

Mr. Burling. Did Hughes tell you this ? 

Mr. Patton. Hughes told me that. Friedlander told me that, As 
a matter of fact, I was present when Hughes collected some of the 
money at various times. 




22 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Burling. In other words, because of a separate deal on the auto- 
mobile Hughes did not share in the split of money you received from 
Friedlander and Russell. 

Mr. Patton. I know I would not say it was because of the auto- 
mobile; that was strictly between themselves. I mean, I don't 
know 

Mr. Burling. I said because of that separate transaction he was not 
in on the split that you were running? 

Mr. Patton. Well, he was not in on the original split, to begin with, 
and Friedlander didn't see why he should be in on it, inasmuch as he 
had helped him to get his car and was making those monthly payments 
to him in order to pay for the car. 

Mr. Burling. Will you describe the manner in which you made the 
payments to your fellow deputies ? Where would you take the money, 
and where would you give it to the other deputies ? 

Mr. Patton. I would take it with me the next morning up to the 
courthouse, and I would either put it in envelopes or call them into the 
men's washroom or give it to them individually. 

Mr. Burling. Did you have any trouble in receiving that part of the 
pay-off which came from bolito? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. The $200 which was for the pay-off of bolito 
did not last very long. They had some troubles, and they couldn't 
collect it all, and then we had orders to make raids on bolito shortly 
after that, and the bolito operators would not pay the money to Fried- 
lander, and consequently we were not getting any of it. 

Mr. Burling. Did Friedlander tell you who he was collecting the 
money from for bolito protection? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, a man by the name of George Weigand. 

Mr. Burling. Had he any connection with law enforcement, do 
you know? 

Mr. Patton. At one time I understand he was chief of police of the 
South Miami Police Department. 

Mr. Burling. Did you yourself ever meet Weigand and ask him 
for protection money? 

Mr. Patton. There was one time that Friedlander could not see 
Weigand, and I was instructed to go to a place known as the Te Pee 
Bar and meet Weigand, which I did, and at that place and at that 
time I received $400 in cash from Weigand as part of the bill of bolito 
pay-offs. 

Mr. Burling. Did there come another time when you went to see 
Weigand in a trailer in South Miami ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir; I did. 

Mr. Burling. Did Weigand tell you who he was working for ? 

Mr. Patton. No, he did not. 

Mr. Burling. Did anyone tell you he was working for Eddie 
Padgett? 

Mr. Patton. I mean it was a known fact that he was working for 
Eddie Padgett. He has worked for Eddie Padgett for quite a few 
years. 

Mr. Burling. On this occasion did you ask Weigand to give you 
$2,500 as payment of arrears ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. What did he answer ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 23 

Mr. Patton. He told me that they had obligations up-State, and 
besides that he told me that he couldn't help if certain parties wanted 
swimming pools which they had to pay for. 

Mr. Burling. Did you ask him what he meant by that ? 

Mr. Patton. I did, and he very reluctantly, of course, told me; he 
says, "Well, you work for somebody, you take orders from somebody, 
don't you ?" I answered him, and he said, "Well, I can't help it if that 
particular party wants a swimming pool." 

Mr. Burling. In other words, he said that he could not give you the 
protection money you wanted because someone you worked for wanted 
a swimming pool ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, 

Mr. Burling. Who was your immediate superior at this point? 

Mr. Patton. Claude High. 

Mr. Burling. Did Claude High have a swimming pool built at his 
place at about this time? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Going back to Miami Beach, were there times when 
Friedlander would tell you to raid places not covered by his ordinary 
list of places? 

Mr. Patton. Would he tell me to raid, you say ? 

Mr. Burling. Yes ; from time to time. 

Mr. Patton. Yes. sir. At various times he would indicate to me 
places that he would want raided. He would give me an address or 
something, and he more or less wanted that raid conducted because 
of the fact that he wanted to bring this bookmaker in line insofar as 
the pay-off was concerned. 

Mr. Burling. Do you know a man named Duke Nolan ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Burling. Is he in charge of gambling in Surf side? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. He is supposed to be the fix man in the little 
town of Surfside, which is on the northern end of Miami Beach 
vicinity. 

Mr. Burling. At the same time, that is, the spring of last year, did 
Nolan tell you that he had given any money to Jack Friedlander? 

Mr. Patton. I would like to correct that. That was not in the 
spring. It was toward the end of August or the first part of this 
past September. 

Mr. Burling. Of this year ? 

Mr. Patton. Of this year. I met Nolan, and during the course of 
the conversation he admitted to me that he had given better than 
$2,500, 1 believe it was, to Friedlander, which was to be given as pay- 
ment to the deputies for the operations covering Surfside. 

Mr. Burling. That is money which was given to Friedlander to be 
given to the deputy sheriffs? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, 

Mr. Burling. Had you received this money ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Did you ever ask Friedlander for it? 

Mr. Patton. I never did. But at the time the conversation was had 
with Nolan, I had made — I had passed a remark to Nolan which was 
overheard by someone. I had told Nolan, "Well, there is always more 
than one way to skin a cat," and, of course, whoever picked up the re- 



24 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

mark immediately telephoned Friedlander out of town and told him 
of the fact that I had become angered, and when Friedlander return- 
ed to Miami he called me to his home and asked me whether or not I 
Lad made that statement, and I told him that I had made it, and I 
didn't think it was very nice of him to renege on any deals that he had 
made with us inasmuch as the men were exposing themselves to what- 
ever — anything- that might happen to them. 

Mr. Burling. Did Friedlander also ask you to leave alone the 
premises under the cover of Uneeda Vending Co. i 

Mr. Patton. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Burling. You knew that was a gambling establishment, did 
you not ? 

Mr. Patton. That was Friedlander's headquarters for telephone 
operations only. 

Mr. Burling. Were there occasions when you and your fellow dep- 
uties would raid places not knowing that Friedlander was interested 
in them, and then would find that he was interested? 

Mr. Patton. That has happened occasionally ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Were you on one occasion instructed by Chief Crim- 
inal Deputy High to raid a place, and were you thereafter called by 
Friedlander, who complained about it? Do you remember such an 
incident ? 

Mr. Patton. Offhand — well, offhand I would not remember any 
particular incident, but I mean there were several instances where- 
that would happen. 

Mr. Burling. Did Friedlander ever tell you that High was being 
taken care of and he, therefore, should not direct that particular raid? 

Mr. Patton. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Burling. When you would raid an establishment or when yon 
would arrest a gambler or a runner, it is a fact, is it not, that you would 
hud money or cash either in the premises or on the person of the ar- 
rested gambler? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. Did you frequently fail to turn this money in to the 
sheriff's office, but kept it and split it among the deputies ? 

Mr. Patton. Not if it — I would like to get that straight for the rec- 
ord. Moneys that were confiscated in bookie raids, as a rule, was held 
onto for evidence. However, there were cases where a great deal of 
money was confiscated, which at one time or another had been re- 
turned to the owners, that is, the bookmakers. 

Now, insofar as keeping any money, I mean, there were instances- 
in bolito raids which we did take and split some of that money up- 
amongst the deputies that were on the raid, or whatever the case 
may be. 

Mr. Burling. In other words, there were two situations: One in 
which you would have a raid, but then the case would not be prose- 
cuted, and the money would be returned to the bookie, and in return 
for that, he would give you back individually some of the money 
returned. 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And in other cases the money was seized but was not 
turned in or noted in the sheriff's records, and you split it. 

Mr. Patton. Well, one making a raid, if there was any money con- 
fiscated at all, why, there was never an accurate record ever kept of 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 25 

the money that was confiscated. I mean it was never entered on any 
ledger of any kind of all. Yon usually lock it up in your own locker 
and you held it for evidence until you made your appearance in court. 

Mr. Burling. Did you always turn into evidence in court all the 
money you confiscated? 

Mr. Patton. I would say not always ; no. 

Mr. Burling. Did you ever give Claude High any money that you 
had taken in this way? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. McLeroy and I conducted some bolito raids on 
pick-up men, and would take certain portions of that money, of the 
bolito money, that they had in envelopes, and Claude High got a certain 
portion of that money. Now, this all happened, of course, when we 
first started operating as a gambling squad. 

Mr. Burlixg. In the spring of this year, it is a fact, is it not, that 
one of Claude High's sons was getting married? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And Claude High asked you if you could not get 
his son and his son's bride an apartment on Miami Beach for a while ; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct. 

Mr. Buttling. He did not suggest that you were to go and rent it 
with High's money, did he? 

Mr. Patton. No. 

Mr. Burling. He meant through your gambling contacts. 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Did you see Friedlander about this ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. I talked to Jack Friedlander, and Friedlander 
told me to go ahead with any plans I wanted to make insofar as renting 
an apartment on the beach, and he would see to it that all moneys for 
rents were paid for. 

Mr. Burling. Did High also ask you to get whisky for this wed- 
ding ? 

Mr. Patton. He did. 

Mr. Burling. You got a case of whisky from a gambler named 
McLendon, is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. As a matter of fact, the place that the bride and groom 
stayed while on their honeymoon was gotton by McLendon also. I 
had talked to him after talking to Friedlander, and McLendon went 
ahead and made arrangements for the boy and the gal to spend their 
honeymoon in a hotel known as the Sea View Hotel, where all expenses 
were paid for or were not paid for, I don't know how the agreement 
was between McLendon and the man who operated or owned the Sea 
View. However, that is where they stayed. 

I also talked to McLendon about getting a case of whisky, and he 
told me where to go and pick it up. 

Mr. Burling. And you told High where the whisky had come from, 
did you not ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. He knew perfectly well that it was contributed by 
gamblers ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. The place where his son was to spend his honeymoon 
had been provided by gamblers? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 



26 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Mr. Burling. Did you at a later date go with Friedlander to meet 
a man named Rudy Levitt? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. Was that at the Golden Shores Club ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And Levitt gave you $200 at that time ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Is it the fact that you learned there was to be a raid 
on the Golden Shores soon after that? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. There was sometime after that a raid con- 
ducted on it. 

Mr. Burling. And you called Levitt and tipped him off that the 
raid was about to take place ? 

Mr. Patton. I had called him in order to tell him about it, and he 
informed me that he already had the information. 

Mr. Burling. Now, shortly after that, did Levitt come to tell yon 
that he was interested in operating on one particular night rather late, 
and he wanted your assurance that it would be all right ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, he did, and they opened this one night. They 
opened up at 12 o'clock midnight when nobody was around, that is,, 
patrolling, and they operated, and for that I received $500. 

Mr. Burling. That is, he gave you $500 ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. Did Friedlander shortly after that call you and take 
you to the home of another gambler named Arthur Clark, Artie Clark? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; he did. 

Mr. Burling. Did Clark tell you that some special clientele of the 
Golden Shores Club was coming down from the North and they wanted 
to stay open one particular night ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; he did tell me that. 

Mr. Burling. Is it correct that he told you that some Friday night 
in the month of March would be the night ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; it was a Friday night that they wanted to operate 
on. 

Mr. Burling. You understood this was a very special occasion? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. In fact, they gave you $3,000 on that occasion, did 
they not? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And you split that how ? 

Mr. Patton. I split that up with Deputy Brannon and Deputy 
Shields and myself. We each received $1,000. 

Mr. Burling. Were you ever told who this special clientele was or 
were ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You have no knowledge of that ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Have you ever been told about any other occasion at 
this club, that is, the Golden Shores Club, when an exceptional amount 
of gambling went on in one night or two nights. First, have you ever 
been told such a story? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. Friedlander related to me a story that, perhaps,, 
a week after the Golden Shores had opened, that a well-known oilman. 



ORGANIZED CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 27 

had visited the place on several occasions, and had lost approximately 
$800,000. 

Mr. Burling. Did he name the oilman ? 

Mr. Patton. He did. 

Mr. Burling. What is his name? 

Mr. Patton. His name is Sinclair. 

Mr. Burling. Did he give you his first name ? 

Mr. Patton. No, he didn't. 

Mr. Burling. All you know is that it was an oilman named Sinclair? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. He lost 800,000, and was supposed to have settled! 
for half a million. 

Mr. Burling. That is what Friedlander told you ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. He told me that because at that time it seemed, 
he was rather peeved with Artie Clark because of the fact that when 
they split the money up, why, he didn't receive his proportion of it, a 
good proportion of it, and he then and there swore, took a solemn oath,, 
that Artie Clark would never operate any kind of a gambling establish- 
ment in Dade County because of that. 

Mr. Burling. Did I understand you to testify that the occasion in 
which this man Sinclair lost $800,000 was the same evening that you: 
received the $3,000, or was it a different evening? 

Mr. Patton. That was a different evening. 

Mr. Burling. That was supposed to have happened about a week: 
after the club opened up ? 

Mr. Halley. Pardon me ; jou never found out who this sucker was 
the night that you were paid the $3,000? 

Mr. Patton. No. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

Mr. Burling. Did you learn that a gambler by the name of Sam. 
Clark was operating a big horse book and card and skin games over 
at the 5 O'Clock Club on Miami Beach ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. Did you receive bribes from him ? 

Mr. Patton. On one occasion, yes, sir. The first time I met Sam 
Clark, I believe I received, it was either a $50 bill or $100 from him, 
and then later on, Friedlander told me that the place was going to 
operate, and the men had heard about it, and they wanted to make 
sure that Clark was paying off his end of it, and the arrangement was 
made that Sam Clark would pay us $250 a week. 

Now, I collected that amount on one occasion only, and Friedlander 
then told me that Clark was having a hard time of it, and he would 
like to see him operate. However, he could not pay anything at that 
time, so the man did operate without us receiving anything for it 
after that. 

Mr. Burling. You did agree to let Clark run without payment ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. Did you locate a handbook in the rear of the building; 
at which the Famous Door is located at Twenty-third Street? 

Mr. Patton. I did. 

Mr. Burling. Did you find that it was operated by Harris Levinson 
and Jules Beeman ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. That was their headquarters, this par- 
ticular place. They were not operating openly or anything like that. 



28 ORGANIZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Of course, they were taking bets over the phone, and they more or 
less used that as a telephone headquarters for a while. 

Mr. Burling. Did you receive a bribe from Levinson ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. How much, if you remember? 

Mr. Patton. I believe the first time I met the man he handed me 
$75. Then, later on he and Julie Beeman opened a book in the hotel 
known as the Blue Horizon, which is in Surfside, and the agreement 
was that they would pay us, I believe it was either $100 or $200 a 
week, botli for McLeroy and myself. However, we only received 
that payment one time because later on, as I went to make collections 
from Harris Levinson, he told me that he could not possibly afford 
to pay us, and also pay Friedlander, so I didn't receive anything 
out of him any more. 

Mr. Burling. Did you discuss this with Friedlander? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. Is it a fact that he asked you to lay off this place 
as a favor to him ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right ; that is true, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Do you know a man named Raymond Craig ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Burling. Did you meet him through deputy Hughes ? 

Mr. Patton. I did, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You and Hughes met Craig at the White Seal Bar ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Patton. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And Hughes obtained $200 from Craig at this time ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, he did. He wanted to make a loan. He was 
up against some difficulty and didn't know where to get the money, 
so we decided to call on Craig. 

We met Craig at a bar known as the White Seal Bar, which is 
located immediately across from his place of business. 

Mr. Burling. Now, is it a fact that at that time the place which 
Craig operated, called the Turf Club Bar, had been enjoined from 
operating ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Burling. Did you have a conversation with Craig about this ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did have a conversation with him about it, 
and at that time he told me that the Crime Commission of Greater 
Miami had approached him and asked him to withdraw his suit in the 
Supreme Court, and if he would do that, then they would draw up 
injunctions against the other gambling casinos in town, and he flatly 
refused to cooperate with them. 

I later found out, of course, that the crime commission never did 
approach the man; that it was just something that he wanted to say 
and go on record as being a good Samaritan. 

Mr. Burling. Did lie say to you that his political connections 
in Tallahassee would result in a reversal of the circuit court decision 
upholding the injunction? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Burling. He did not explain to you what his connections were 
there ? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 29 

Mr. Burling. Had you been told at the time you started on the 
gambling squad that you ought to lay off any place that Craig was 
operating ? 

Mr. Patton. I was not specifically told that by anyone m particular. 
I mean, it was just common knowledge known amongst the deputies 
that, well, this Raymond Craig was not to be bothered, because of the 
fact that he was well connected with the sheriff's office. 

Mr. Burling. Was he well connected with the sheriff's office or with 
the sheriff? 

Mr. Patton. I should say the sheriff. 

Mr. Burling. Going back to last spring, did the chief criminal 
deputy. High, send you and Deputy McLeroy around to the Kenil- 
worth Hotel? 

Mr. Patton. No, sir ; that was not the Kennilworth. 

Mr. Burling. How about the Sea View Hotel? 

Mr. Patton. Sea View Hotel ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. There you found a big horse book in full operation? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And you confiscated evidence, including $1,561 in 
cash ? 

Mr. Patton. Y es, sir. 

Mr. Burling. And the run-down sheets showed that bets up to 
$1,000 were being accepted ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir ; they did show it. 

Mr. Burling. Between $50,000 and $100,000 a day were being bet? 

Mr. Patton. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Burling. In addition to arrest, seizing the evidence and con- 
fiscating the money you arrested some men ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir; we arrested several men on that occasion. 

Mr. Burling. You did not arrest a woman ? 

Mr. Patton. There was a woman there taking lay-off bets from the 
operators of that establishment. She was taking these bets for an- 
other source, and I later found out that she was working for a man by 
the name of McLendon. He later told me that had I arrested her 
that we would have found anywhere up to $27,000 in cash that she had 
hidden upon her bod v. 

Mr. Burling. $7,000 or $27,000? 

Mr. Patton. $27,000. 

Mr. Burling. After this raid did you have a talk with attorney 
Ben Cohen? 

Mr. Patton. It was during — shortly after the raid, that is, on the 
same afternoon, that the men that we arrested wanted- to call their 
lawyer, and I let them, and the man they called was Ben Cohen. He, 
of course, asked them to put me on the telephone. 

I went to the phone, and Mr. Cohen told me — he asked me, rather — 
if I knew what I was doing; and I told him I thought I was well aware 
of the fact as to what I was doing. He asked me then if I knew whose 
book it was, and I told him, no. and what's more I didn't care. 

He then informed me that it belonged to Harry Russell, and I told 
him, "Well, that is just unfortunate, but I am taking the men in and 
booking them anyway." 

Mr. Burling. What happened to the $1,500 in cash which you did 
find? 

G8958— 51— pt. la 3 



30 ORGANIZED 1 CRIME- EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Patton. Well, it was sometime after that — of course, they ap- 
plied all the pressure they knew how through Friedlander; and the 
money was returned to Ben Cohen. I personally returned it to Ben 
Cohen, $1,500 of it, I believe it was — yes, $1,500 — and he gave me back 
$400, and he kept a hundred for himself, saying that, of course, he was 
not going to make anything on this case, and that he might just as 
well keep $100 of it for himself. 

Now, as to whether or not he ever returned the balance of the thou- 
sand dollars to the rightful owners, I do not know. 

Mr. Burling. At any rate, he gave you a bribe of $400 to return 
the money to him ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. And you split that? 

Mr. Patton. With McLeroy. 

Mr. Burling. With McLeroy ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Were these men that you arrested in the Sea View 
raid convicted? 

Mr. Patton. I believe they were, sir. 

Mr. Burling. But the confiscated money did not appear in evidence 
at that trial ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right ; only a small portion of it did, a very 
small portion. 

Mr. Burling. Also during the season 1950 did you raid a horse 
book at the Versailles Hotel ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Burling. And there you found about $1,000; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. Is it a fact that Friedlander complained about this 
raid and asked for the money back? 

Mr. Patton. Friedlander and Russell both, and with the knowl- 
edge of — I mean, Claude High had knowledge of the fact that I was 
going to take this money back to them, and I returned it to them 
with the run-down sheets which they made copies of. 

Mr. Burling. That is to say they wanted the run-down sheets so 
that they could pay off winning betters ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. You let them copy the seized sheets ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You say with the knowledge of Claude High. Did 
you actually talk to Claude High about it yourself? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Halley. And told him you were giving this money back? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. At the request of Russell and Friedlander? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Claude High was then acting as the chief deputy? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How could all this stuff be going on without Sullivan's 
knowing about it? 

Mr. Patton. I have often wondered about that, too, myself, Mr. 
Halley, but I don't know whether the sheriff knew about it or not. 
Bui if he did, he certainly didn't say anything, and if he didn't, why, 
it was just something that we were getting away with. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 31 

Mr. Halley. Did the gamblers indicate to you that Sullivan had 
been taken care of in some other way \ 

Mr. Pattox. Well, I have often asked Friedlander as to what the 
sheriff knew as to what was going on, and he asserted as much as to 
say, well, he knows of what is going on, "otherwise he would not be 
doing it." 

Mr. Halley. It seems to me that the atmosphere must have been 
perfectly clear to you : either everybody was working very hard to 
hide this thing from the sheriff and the gamblers or telling you to 
be careful and not let the sheriff know it, or it was clearly under- 
stood that the sheriff knew what was going on, and was not interested 
in it. 

Mr. Patton. Do you want my honest opinion? 

Mr. Halley. Yes, based on fact. 

Mr. Pattox. Based on fact, I would say that the sheriff did know 
what was going on. 

Mr. Halley. Everybody assumed he knew, in any event? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Nobody took any pains to hide anything from him ; is 
that right I 

Mr. Pattox. No; and what is more, he never asked or never even 
bothered to find out what was going on, I mean, if he did not know 
it, so from that I assume that he knew what was going on. 

Mr. Halley. Did he ever call you in and ask you how you were 
making out with your gambling squad I 

Mr. Pattox. We have talked several times. He would always kid 
me about, ''Well, why don't you bring in more men," especially if 
the town was closed down, and, why, of course, arrests were harder to 
make, and at various times he would jibe around a little bit and tell 
you, "What's the matter, you are slipping up ; you are not getting any 
bookmakers," you see, but no one ever took him any too serious about it 
because they knew he was kidding about it. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Patton, on one page of your testimony you say : 

I then asked Friedlander if he thought that Raymond Craig was going to pay 
the deputies the money because of his connections with the sheriff. 

What did you mean by that question ? 

Mr. Pattox. Well, it was very evident that in the past Raymond 
Craig, although he operated and paid no one for operating except, 
perhaps, one or two deputies that he favored, no one ever dared to go 
ask him for any money; he then, at that time when I asked Fried- 
lander that question and made that remark, he was operating a gam- 
bling house on the top of the Alcazar Hotel, in the penthouse, and 
some of the men wanted to know as to whether or not Craig and the 
other man connected with him was going to pa}^ off on that, and that 
is how I asked the question of Friedlander. And, of course, there 
were other things that had happened in the meantime, and the answer 
that Friedlander gave me, of course, corresponded to something else. 

Senator Htjxt. But you evidently by that question understood and 
felt that Jimmy Sullivan was also getting his, but from another source. 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. That was your opinion ? 

Mr. Pattox. Yes, sir. 



32 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Senator Hunt. Is that right? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. Going back to the raid on the Versailles Hotel; of 
that $1,000 that was received, you turned over the whole thing to 
Russell ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. And he gave you back $200 ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Burling. You split this 50-50 with deputy Mullis? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Burling. Did you and McLeroy raid a horse-book run by 
Charlie Robertson at 2900 Northwest Fifty-fourth Street? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, we did. 

Mr. Burling. Did High tell you that there might be some kind of a 
trap to this raid? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. He called us in prior to giving us the search 
warrant for this place. He told us that we didn't have to go on this 
raid, specially he referred that to me. He told me that I didn't have 
to particularly go on this raid if I didn't want to because he felt it 
was a trap that was being set up in order to get me in on it ; and when 
he told me that, of course, why, I told him that I would just as soon 
go on it. 

Mr. Burling. What kind of a trap did you understand he meant ?■ 

Mr. Patton. Well, I didn't know. I didn't know at the time what 
he meant, and I didn't bother to ask him. 

Senator Hunt. The chairman wishes to make a brief statement. 
Counsel, in questioning the witness, has framed his questions from 
the statement by the witness, which the witness at the start of the 
hearing testified was his statement, and was a true and correct 
statement. 

It seems to me that nothing further can be gained by questioning 
the witness in detail with reference to a complete statement that he 
has already made, and that is a matter of record, and now in the 
record, and I think that having given the committee the opportunity 
to question the witness, and having gotten the full statement into the 
record, that it is more or less a repetition simply to ask these continu- 
ing questions with reference to what Ave already have in the record^ 
and so if counsel have no further suggestions to make, the chairman 
is going to conclude this hearing. 

Mr. Halley, do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Halley. The purpose, as you said, Mr. Chairman, was to permit 
the committee to hear the witness answer the questions, so that the 
committee could judge for itself the veracity of the witness from his 
manner of answering questions, his demeanor, his poise or forthright- 
ness or lack of forthrightness in answering the particular question. 

Counsel thoroughly agrees with the chairman that that purpose has 
been served. 

There is just one other question I would like to ask the witness at 
this time, and that is what was the total amount of money which you 
received yourself during the year in which you were in the sheriff's 
-office? 

Mr. Patton. Mr. Halley 

Mr. Hallet. I am now referring to bribes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 33 

Mr. Patton (continuing). That is bribes, pay-offs, and so forth? 

Mr. Hallet. Pay-offs. 

Mr. Patton. Mr. Halley, I would answer that by saying that from 
the month of January of 1950 up until the time I left the sheriff's 
office, I would say roughly approximately $15,000. 

Mr. Halley. That would be in how many months ? 

Mr. Patton. How many months? 

Mr. Halley. When did you leave the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Patton. The last of September. 

Mr. Halley. In about 9 months. And the $15,000 received by you 
are not inclusive of the money you gave other people; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. What would you say you collected all together and 
split up among the other deputies? 

Mr. Patton. That would be hard for me to say, sir. 

Mr. Halley. It would be many times $15,000, would it not? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, it would be. Of course, there were instances 
where I received money where others didn't, too, you understand ; so 
I know my partner, he probabty has the same amount. 

Mr. Halley. You say your partner got at least $15,000, too? 

Mr. Patton. At least. 

Mr. Halley. And then several other deputies got very substantial 
sums ? 

Mr. Patton. They all fared pretty well in that deal. 

Mr. Halley. You would say you collected well over $50,000 all 
together, then, would you not? 

Mr. Patton. I would not want to go on record as saying $50,000. 
I would say close to it, I imagine. 

Mr. Halley. Close to $50,000? 

Mr. Patton. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Of course, what you collected was just the pay-off of 
the deputies in the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. It is your understanding that the police were getting 
separate pay-offs? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And a great many other people had to be taken care 
of? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And all this was going on rather openly and flagrantly, 
and nobody objected ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. There were no objections. 

Mr. Halley. And you are a fairly alert, bright man, working in 
Miami for just a few months, and you soon learned where the gam- 
blers were, where they operated, and what they were doing; is that 
right ? 

Mr. Patton. I caught on rather fast; that is right. 

Mr. Halley. The sheriff could not help knowing about it, if he was 
alert ? 

Mr. Patton. To that, Mr. Halley, I would say the sheriff knew about 
it, but I don't know what he could have done about it, because over a 
period of years that he has been connected with these people, I don't 
see what he could do to help himself. 



34 ORGANIZED' CRIME* IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Halley. You mean the thing had gotten so far advanced, so 
many people were in on the pay-off, that no one person could even 
I >egin to put a dent into the situation ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, up until this present grand jury went into session, 
Mr. Halley, everything seemed to be pretty well for the men operating 
down there, and evidently they didn't have any fear of any previous 
grand jury. The only time they were frightened at all was when the 
Kefauver committee first made their appearance down in Miami, the 
grand jury went into session, and that is the only time when they were 
frightened at all as to what might happen. 

Mr. Halley. When were you last in Miami ? 

Mr. Patton. Pardon, sir? 

Mr. Halley. When were you last in Miami? 

Mr. Patton. I left Miami about the 2d of November, or perhaps 
the 5th of November, I am not sure. 

Mr. Halley. Would you say that the gamblers are planning to open 
again this winter? 

Mr. Patton. If they do, Mr. Halley, they are rather foolish. 

Mr. Halley. The heat is on ? 

Mr. Patton. The heat is on, and it should stay on, and I believe it 
should stay on because I believe the thing has come to a head down 
there now. They had a grand jury that was not afraid of anyone as to 
who they were, and they did a grand job down there. They indicted 
those that were responsible for it. I presume, perhaps, that I should 
have been one of them, but when I went before the grand jury I did not 
ask them for any favors. As a matter of fact, I didn't ask for immu- 
nity. They took it upon themselves to grant me the immunity, and I 
gave them whatever they needed to corroborate with what they had. 

Mr. Halley. How many deputy sheriffs have been indicted? 

Mr. Patton. All those that I had mentioned previous to this. Of 
course, when I did go before the grand jury, I approached several of 
them, and I told them that they had an opportunity to go before the 
grand jury and receive the same immunity, and to clear themselves so 
that they wouldn't have anything to worry about, and at least take a 
little bit of credit for having done something for the community. But, 
when I did talk to them, all they would tell me was, well, anything 
they would have to tell the grand jury would be strictly hearsay. 

I can say this, I can't very well blame the men for taking any part 
in what they were doing. It is very evident that it had been going 
on over a period of years, and when you take a deputy sheriff, who is 
only making $225 a month, why then, any opportunity that comes 
along to make a few dollars, you can be assured that they will take 
that opportunity well in hand. 

Mr. Halley. Well, Mr. Patton, you had a fine record in the war, 
you certainly went to Miami with the intention of earning an honest 
living. How do people get into the kind of situation you got into? 
Is it impossible to have an honest sheriff's office down there ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, Mr. Halley, only being in Miami 4 years and not 
knowing the conditions as to what they were previous to my going 
there, I wouldn't know how to answer you truthfully, but I honestly 
think that they can have a good sheriff's office down there, and law en- 
forcement can be of the best, but they will certainly have to make 
amends somewhere along the line to pay those policemen and deputy 



ORGANIZED 1 CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 35 

sheriffs something to live on, something which they would not have to 
depend on getting from a gambler or racketeer. 

Mr. Halley. Would it help if the deputies felt that their superiors, 
the police and other law-enforcement officers, were also on the square ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes ; it would help ; and it would also help if they had 
somebody at the head of those departments who knew what law en- 
forcement was and would see to it that it was carried out as law en- 
forcement rather than just on a hit-and-run basis. 

Mr. Halley. I presume that the reason you felt willing to take 
bribes and do the things you did was that you were given to under- 
stand by Friedlander, and Ben Cohen, and Harry Russell that they 
were, in effect, running the sheriff's office anyhow ; is that right ? _ 

Mr. Patton. Well, that is the way it was indicated, and that is the 
way it looked to me. 

Mr. Halley. They told you they wanted you on the gambling squad, 
and you were appointed on it ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You were a relatively new man ? 

Mr. Patton. I was very much a new man. 

Mr. Halley. And they expressed satisfaction that they had gotten 
you on ; is that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. Of course, I was later on given the im- 
pression to understand that my being put on the squad was because 
of the help that I had given Crosby, and the fact that he had made a 
good report to the Governor, and because of the help that I had given 
him, and it is also my understanding, sir, that perhaps a man by the 
name of Johnston, whom I do not know 

Mr. Halley. Bill Johnston? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. What about Bill Johnston ? 

Mr. Patton. Well, I understand that Harry Russell, "Bing" Crosby, 
and Johnston, I mean, know each other pretty well, are personal 
friends, and it was indicated that perhaps Bill Johnston had some- 
thing to do with my being appointed, and for a while there in Miami 
everybody around town was talking of the fact that I was Johnston's 
man. 

Mr. Halley. That is because you helped this man promptly raid 
the S. & G. locations ; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And everybody understood, that is, everybody in the 
gambling fraternity understood, that Crosby's raids were to enable 
Russell to muscle into the S. & G. ; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. It came to light later. 

Mr. Halley. And Russell succeeded in muscling in; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Then Ben Cohen introduced you to him as the head 
man? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And Russell arranged the payoffs ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And you later learned that Russell was very close to 
Bill Johnson; is that right? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Who told you that ? 



36 ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Mr. Patton. Well, certain people there that I had met on the Beach ; 
I mean various people had seen him at the Miami Beach Kennel Club, 
sitting with Johnston in his box. 

Mr. Halley. Can you name some of these people ? 
Mr. Pattox. Offhand, no sir. I mean there have been too many of 
them to relate, I mean to tell. 

Mr. Halley. It is common knowledge? 
Mr. Patton. It is common knowledge; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did the cutoff of the wire service tie into this effort of 
Russell to muscle into the S. & G. ? 

Mr. Patton. At the time that Crosby made his appearance in Miami 
the wire service was cut off for a short time. 

Mr. Halley. And it was the understanding among the gamblers 
that Avas also pressure on the S. & G.? 
Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You found while you were on the Miami Beach police 
force the same attitude on the part of the policemen to take graft and 
to protect the gamblers; is that right ? 
Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. In fact, you received a few small payoffs yourself, you 
testified ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir; and I was later on reprimanded when I made 
that statement in regard to that floating crap game, when I first 
reported it to the lieutenant in charge of the night shift. I told him 
about it, and, as I said, he told me to "take what you can get and just- 
mind your own business," and a few days later, why, that same lieu- 
tenant and I made the raid on that place one bright morning, confis- 
cated a large crap table. 

Later on, at the station house one night, prior to going on duty, why T 
the chief of police made an appearance and gave a little talk to the 
men, and I was very much reprimanded for knowing that a crap game 
was going on on my beat and not doing anything about it, and I can 
honestly and truthfully say that I believe I received that reprimand 
m front of these men only to cover up on the chief's behalf, that is all. 
Mr. Halley. The fact is that it would do no good to pay off the 
sheriff's men unless they were also protected by the police depart- 
ment ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Patton. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't somebody tell you that 3 or 4 hundred people 
were being paid off on payoff day ? 

Didn't Friedlander say that payoff day included 3 or 4 hundred 
people, or was it George Bowers? 

Mr. Patton. George Bowers made the remark as to how easy it was 
to make the fix in Dade County, and at one time he had handled 2 or 3 
hundred men insofar as paying off was concerned. 

Mr. Halley. I think that is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 
Is there anything else, Mr. Burling? 
Mr. Burling. I do not have anything else. 

Senator Hunt. I want to ask one more question. Aside from the 
city police force, and aside from the sheriff's office, of course, what was 
the attitude of the citizens of Miami and Miami Beach toward gam- 
bling, those who live there and make it their home? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 37 

Mr. Patton. I would say that is a 50-50 proposition, sir. You 
have people that go up in arms the moment anyone says anything about 
the sheriff's office or the Miami Police Department or the Miami 
Beach Police Department not enforcing the gambling laws. They 
always say that the newspapers are persecuting the officials of the 
departments. 

Then there are, too, people who would like to see a good, clean city, 
and I think now the greater portion of that city of Miami has come 
to life, and is going to do something about it, and they are pretty well 
started about it. 

Senator Hunt. In other words, you think the clean element pre- 
dominates now, and in the past that has not been the case? 

Mr. Patton. Pardon me, sir? 

Senator Hunt. You think the citizens who want a clean government 
are now in the majority, while, prior to the Kefauver investigation, 
you feel that the opposite was true, those who favored gambling were 
in the ascendancy; is that correct? 

Mr. Patton. That is true, because you see, Senator, an ordinary 
citizen down there doesn't know exactly what is going on. I mean 
you people come down to Miami and expose a good many things that 
the people down there ordinarily would not know about, and would 
never hear about it. If a body of people did not come down there and 
exposed it for them, they would not hear about it, and if it was not for 
a grand jury like they had down there at this past term, they stilll 
would not know a good deal about what was going on. 

Senator Hunt. When you were down in Miami and got this position 
in the police department, were you given to understand in conversa- 
tion with your fellow officers, well, this is being done, this is the thing 
to do, it has always been done, it is expected to be done, and that that 
is the reason you fell in with it ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. Was that the attitude you ran into? 

Mr. Patton. That is the attitude I ran into. However, that was not 
the attitude that I ran into when I first got into the police department. 
I thought I was going to be a policeman. 

Senator Hunt. That was not your attitude when you first went in 
there, but it was the attitude of the police department when you first 
went into it ? 

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. Thank you. 

The committee hearing is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 11: 10 a. m., the hearing was adjourned, to recon- 
vene subject to call.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



THURSDAY, DECEMBER 28, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Tampa, Fla. 

executive session 

The committee met, pursuant to call of the chairman, at 11 a. m., 
in the United States Courthouse in Tampa, Fla., Senator Lester C. 
Hunt, presiding. 

Present: Senator Hunt. . 

Also present: Downey Rice, assistant counsel; Altred M. Klein, 

assistant counsel. 

Senator Hunt. The committee will come to order. Mrs. DiLorenzo, 
do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this commit- 
tee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANTHONY DiLORENZO, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. If you will give us your full name, please 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Mrs. Anthony DiLorenzo. 

Mr. Rice. Your maiden name was Brownlow. Is that right? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You live at 500- 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. East Park Avenue. 

Mr. Rice. East Park Avenue, in Tampa? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You are married and have two children? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Y r es, sir : that's right. 

Mr. Rice. One a girl of 18 ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And the other a boy of 10 ? 

Your 18-year-old daughter is married to Marvin H. Gardner ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who is an Air Force sergeant? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rtce. Located atMacDill Field? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. He lives at 107 East Ross Avenue in Tampa ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

39 



40 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Rice. They have a little child, do they not? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. The Gardners? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes ; 1 month old. 

Mr. Rice. A 1-month-old baby? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Your husband is Anthony DiLorenzo? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You married him how long ago? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. December 24, 1930. 

Mr. Rice. Now, what was he doing at that time; what sort of 
work ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He was working with R. T. Joughin. 

Mrs. Rice. What was he doing there ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He was working as his deputy. 

Mr. Rice. For whom? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. R. T. Joughin. 

Mr. Rice. As a deputy sheriff ? j 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Deputy sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Going back to December 1948, you filed an action for 
divorce ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Well, I found it all along, but I was afraid to 
try it. 

Mr. Rice. What? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I found it all along, but I was afraid to try it, 
and I got to where it didn't make any difference one way or' the 
other — it made no difference whether I lived or died. The doctor 
said I wouldn't live a month if I didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Who was your attorney? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Umstot, J. Frank Umstot. 

Mr. Rice. At that time what was Anthony, your husband, doing? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He was working for Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. As a what? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Well, at that time on his card was "Special 
Duties," but they changed it later to an investigator. 

Mr. Rice. How much money did he make ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He told me he was getting $200 a month. 

Mr. Rice. $200 a month ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. Wait just a minute. That was at the 
time I left him. You want at the time I left him ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, December 1948. Since that time has he been pay- 
ing you support money ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He has, since January 1, 1949. January 1 of 
1949 was when he started paying me. 

Mr. Rice. Although you live apart, you see him almost daily ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I have seen him almost daily since my daughter 
had the baby, but before that I hadn't seen him for quite a while. 

Mr. Rice. What were his duties? What did he do in his work? 
Did he go to work in the morning and come home in the evening, 
or what did he do ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He was in and out, mostly waiting to be called 
and told what to do. 

Mr. Rice. Who called him and told him what to do? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. You mean since I left him ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 41 

Air. Rice. Who instructed him ? Who guided him in his job ? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Wait a minute before you put that down. After 
I left him I was living at one place and he was living at another. My 
daughter was home and she answered the phone after I left there. I 
left him April 8 of 1948, but I didn't file suit for divorce until 
December. 

Mr. Rice. What I am trying to get is who guided him; who 
instructed him what to do in these jobs he had I 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Well 

Mr. Rice. Who called the house to tell him ? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Let me think. 

Mr. Rice. Here is what we are trying to get at : The story of what 
the man did, how he worked, who called him, who told him to do it. 
Do you understand that ? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Well, on October 1, 1947—1 won't say it was 
exactly that date that he got his commission, but around that time— 
Italiano is the one that told him the sheriff would give him a commis- 
sion to do special duties. He was hanging around the sheriff's office 
suite a bit of that time, in and out, also the county jail. Sometimes 
Ira.iano would call him. 

Mr. Rice. Did you say sometimes Italiano would call him there? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Sometimes Culbreath would call him. 

Mr. Rice. What actually hapened? How did that work? Was it 
Ital iano that called or was it Culbreath ? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. They both called him there. 

Mr. Rice. Did you answer the phone sometimes ? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. I have answered the phone a lot of times when it 
was Italiano. I know I have answered the phone a lot of times when 
he called, but right at that particular date 

Mr. Rice. The dates are not particularly important, Mrs. DiLorenzo. 
What happened is what we are interested in. We are not pinning you 
down to datns or anything like that, but. in general, was it a proposition 
where some) imes Italiano would call and sometimes Culbreath would 
call? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And after he would receive a call he would go out and do 
something? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What would he do? What was your impression of what 
he was doing as a result of these telephone calls? What were his 
duties? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Well, he was checking different places for them, 
different bolita places. 

Mr. Rice. These were gambling places, bolita places? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. Yes, sir. 

Mi-. Rice. By "checking" what do you mean? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. I really don't know how to explain myself. 

Mr. Rice. But his job seemed to be that he would go to different 
gambling places? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. That's right ; all gambling peddlers, yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did he tell you what he was doing wdien he went there ? 

Mrs. DiLorexzo. No, not exactly. 

Mr. Rice. Was he collecting from them or was he arresting them ? 



42 ORGANIZED CRIME' IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He was just more of a go-between between the 
underworld and the law, as a messenger between those. 

Mr. Rice. He was a go-between ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. That's my way of explaining it. 

Mr. Rice. You never went with him at any time after he got the 
telephone calls, did you ? Did you go around to any of these gamblers 
with him, personally ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Do I have to answer that ? 

Mr. Rice. The only way we are going to get to the bottom of this 
thing and understand the story is to know the full details. There 
doesn't seem to be much point in telling part of the story and not 
all of it. 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes ; I have been to plenty of them. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do when you would go to one of these 
gamblers or gambling places ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I would stay in the car. 

Mr. Rice. What ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I always stayed in the car. I have never been 
inside of one of them. 

Mr. Rice. What would he do ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He would get out and go in and talk with them. 

Mr. Rice. Can you remember some of these places where he went? 
Did he go to see Primo ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. He went to the Yellow House plenty of 
times. It was on Fifteenth Street and Eleventh Avenue. 

Mr. Rice. Who runs the Yellow House ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Primo Lazzara at that time. It isn't now. After- 
ward ; I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Sometimes when you went to these places like the Yellow 
House, did he tell you that he had instructions to tell them to close 
down temporarily? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. When anything would happen they would close 
them all down. He has even called them by phone and told them. 

Mr. Rice. When he called them on the phone, what did he tell 
them? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. To wait for further orders. 

Mr. Rice. Then what would happen ? He would tell them to wait 
for further orders, then what would happen next? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. When everything would quiet down they would 
start selling again. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us a little bit about the guns that your husband had, 
what he did with them and where he kept them ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Well, I can't remember exactly when he got them. 

Mr. Rice. Well, he had 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He has had them quite a few years, though. Some 
of them he kept home. Some of them he kept at his brother-in-law's. 

Mr. Rice. When you say "home," where do you mean? At his 
home ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. His home. 

Mr. Rice. Which is at 1910y 2 Tenth Avenue? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where he lives alone ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 43 

Mr. Rice. And some he kept at his brother-in-law's : Is that Sal- 
vatore Zambon ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Zambon, Z-a-m-b-o-n. 

Mr. Rice. He is a shoemaker, living at 3718 Thirteenth Street? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes ; he is a shoemaker by trade, but right now he 
is working in the schools. 

Mr. Rice. Did he have a sa wed-off shotgun ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Rice. Where did he keep that? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He used to keep that home. 

Mr. Rice. Do you make a distinction between a sawed-off shot- 
gun and a regular shotgun? What is the difference between them? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. It is, I would say, about that long. [The wit- 
ness indicated with her two extended hands.] 

Mr. Rice. Indicating about 2 feet as being the sawed-off shotgun ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. That's as near as I could tell you. 

Mr. Rice. How long would the other gun be? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Just a regular length shotgun. 

Mr. Rice. A regular long-barreled shotgun ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How about revolvers or pistols ? Does he carry a revol- 
ver or pistol ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He usually carries two. 

Mr. Rice. He usually carries two? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where does he carry them on him ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Well, he never carried but one at a time on him. 

Mr. Rice. Does he keep one in the glove compartment of his car ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. In the glove compartment. 

Mr. Rice. The other one he carries where? In his pocket? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Which pocket? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. In the daytime he carries it in his hip pocket. At 
night he usually has a holster to carry the larger one. 

Mr. Rice. Did there come a time when he left a revolver at the home 
of his son-in-law ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. My son-in-law told me he left it there. He didn't 
tell me. 

Mr. Rice. How long ago was that your son-in-law told you ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. When my daughter was in the hospital he took the 
gun out and showed it to me and asked me what to do with it. He was 
afraid to keep it there. He said he was going to get rid of it, that he 
was afraid my husband might try to frame him, knowing how he feels 
about it, because they have had quite a few words in the short time that 
they have been married. 

Mr. Rice. Let's try to fix the time that that happened. Can you 
tell what month that was that he left that revolver with your son-in- 
law ? Do you know when your daughter was in the hospital ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When was that? Was it about 2,y 2 months ago, or 3 
months ? 

Mrs. DiLorenso. I would say about that ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you ever remember Santo Trafficante calling for him 
on the telephone? 



44 ORGANIZED' CRIME' IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I can't remember answering the phone when he 
called, but he told me that it was him that called. 

Mr. Rice. Do you remember when James Velasco was killed? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I remember very little about it. 

Mr. Rice. Where was your husband when that happened? Do 
you know ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Around the 18th of October I stopped him from 
coming to my mother's at all, and I had never spoken to him until 
I met him in court. 

Mr. Rice. That was in December, and Velasco was killed in 
December ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. That's right. I never talked to him from 

Mr. Rice. Where was your husband the night of the Velasco killing, 
if you know ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I don't know. I couldn't say. I haven't the 
slightest idea. 

Mr. Rice. Did you hear where he was that night? Did your 
daughter tell you anything about where he was that night? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. No. 

Mr. Rice. Where were the children ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. They were with him, and he wouldn't even let 
me see them or as much as let me speak to them at that time. He 
wouldn't even let me talk to them over the phone. 

Mr. Rice. Later on did your daughter tell you anything? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did she tell you? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. That their father taken them to the movies, about 
him taking them to the movies and leaving them there. 

Mr. Rice. And doing what ? Staying with them ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. No. He left them there and they walked home. 
He didn't go back and pick them up. 

Mr. Rice. Just before Jimmy Lumia was killed, did your husband 
tell your daughter where he was going to be that day? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. You mean the day he was killed? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He told her not to call him before 11 o'clock 
because he had work to do. 

Mr. Rice. How was he acting just before Lumia was killed? What 
did he say ? How did he talk ? 

Mis. DiLorenzo. Well, he told me that someone was going to be 
killed. He said something about they had him on a spot, that there 
wasn't any other way out, that he had to do it or he had to do the job — 
something in those words. He didn't say he had to do the killing 
but he said he had a job to do. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us in your own words all you know about the Lumia 
situation before it happened and what happened right afterward? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. I'm trying to think. 

Mr. Rice. Did he say anything a couple of weeks before? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes; he said someone was going to get it — "I am 
on the spot." He said he had to do what they said to do because he was 
in it so deep that he couldn't get out. He said he was in it too far, 
and he said, "Once you are in there is no out." 

Mr. Rice. Then what happened next? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 45- 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He went over it for several weeks, and just going 
over and over what he was afraid was going to happen, that it had to 
happen. 

Mr. Rice. Did von see him on the morning of the killing? 
Mrs. DiLorenzo. I was with him the night before he was killed, m 
the hospital at Drew Field. My daughter told him she was going to be 
released from the hospital. He told her not to call before 11 o'clock 
because he had something to do. They released her early, and she 
called me up at my mother's. My son-in-law called, not my daugh- 
ter. He asked me to get in touch "with my husband, that he had been 
trying to, but the line was busy. I kept trying to get hold of him, but 
the line was still busy and I couldn't get him. I don't know exactly 
what time it was that I did get him, but he seemed very excited. He 
couldn't talk. He told me, "I'll be over later." He wouldn't talk to me. 
Mr. Rice. This was in the morning? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. . 

Mr. Rice. About what time? When did you first see him that 
morning, actually see him I 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. That was the first time I seen him, when he came 
over. He couldn't talk He seemed excited, and then he came over. 
That was the first time I seen him that morning. 

Mr. Rice. What happened when he came? What was he saying 
or doing ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He was in a hurry. He told me to hurry up. 1 
wasn't quite ready to go, and he kept rushing me, telling me to hurry. 
He seemed in a very big hurry to get out of the house. 
Mr. Rice. Was he excited ? 
Mrs. DiLorenzo. Very much so, very. 
Mr. Rice. What did he do next? Did he leave? 
Mrs. DiLorenzo. I went with him to the hospital to pick up my 
daughter. When I got out there they had released her and she had 
left the hospital. We had to go several times around the hospital be- 
fore we found her, and he was very excited and seemed angry that she 
had left the hospital and not stayed where she was supposed to be. 
When we found her she got in the car. She asked him to take her to 
Milan's Drive-In, and he told he couldn't, that he was in a hurry, he had 
to go see someone, and that he would come back later. He left us at my 
mother's home. 

Mr. Rice. What did he have to say about the Lumia killing? You 
had found out about that, hadn't you ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Up until then I didn't know. When he left us 
there at my mother's home, my brother called me and told me that there 
had been a killing and told me who it was. A few minutes later, he 
called back. 

Mr. Rice. You mean your husband called back? 
Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you about the Lumia killing that day? 
What did he say about it? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. When he called me he told me that all hell had 
broke loose, that there was going to be plenty of trouble. 
Mr. Rice. Did he say who did it ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Well, in the conversation we asked if it were 
local people wouldn't they have been recognized, because we had 

68958 — 51— pt. la 4 



46 ORGANIZED CRIME; IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE) 

.heard there was someone with them that was a Tampa man, and he 
says, "When they get through with them, not even their own mother 
would recognize them." 

Mr. Rice. My point was this: What did he say about who did it? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Then, in talking on, talking about they had to 
be a good shot to do it, he says, "Well, when they want a job done and 
done right, there is only one man for the job, and that is Carl Walker." 

Mr. Rice. Who is that? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Carl Walker. 

Mr. Rice. Who is Carl Walker? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. When I first knew him he was a deputy for Jerry 
McLeod. 

Mr. Rice. Was he the deputy who was involved in the killing of 
Joe Bino? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. In a scuffle outside the sheriff's office ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What were you told about that killing? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. That Joe Bino was mixed up in different matters 
here and that he was the one that shot at Charlie Wall, but that 
they could get no proof of it, they couldn't prove it, and that he was a 
dangerous man to have around and that they had to get rid of him. 

Mr. Rice. W T ho told you this? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. My husband. 

Mr. Rice. Your husband? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo., Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you about Carl Walker and Joe Bino ? 
Did he tell you that that was an accident, that Joe Bino was killed ? 
What did he tell you? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. They had to get a man to do the job that wouldn't 
mind it, because he had done it before in another county. That I 
know nothing about. It was supposed to have happened in another 
county. He was some kind of a law enforcement officer when it 
happened. 

Mr. Rice. Were they talking about Carl Walker. Mrs. DiLorenzo? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. There is so much, so far back, that I am 
very confused. 

Mr. Rice. What did your husband tell you about the Mafia ? Did 
he tell you there is such a thing ? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. There is such a thing. That is one thing he never 
talked much about, or no one else. Only the ones inside know who 
they are. 

Mr. Rice. Was anything said about Lumia being killed as a result 
of Mafia activity? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. He said — it was 10 years back — that he was get- 
ting too big and someone had to stop him. If I could remember the 
whole conversation 

Mr. Rice. Do you know how your husband has been paid in the last 
2 years? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. From the time he first got the commission, Cul- 
breath paid him up until I went to court. After that Italiano paid 
him. He would go out on Grand Central and collect, but he would 
always call Italiano from my mother's and ask him if the sheriff had 



ORGANIZED CRIME. IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 47 

called him and give him orders. He wouldn't pay off until Mr. Cul- 
breath called him and told him. I have been with him out there when 
he would collect. , , 

Mr Rice. Have you seen Italiano give him pay envelopes or cash? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. It was always cash. He always had it m an en- 
velope. It was cash. 

Mr Rice. Did you see Italiano hand it to him i 

Mrs DiLorenzo. I couldn't say he handed it to him, because it was 
iust inside of the door. I know Italiano was in there. He usually 
walked to the door with him, but he would come out and open the 
envelope after he got in the car. 

Mr Rice. What would be in the envelope? 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. The $200. 

Mr Rice In telling us these things, Mrs. DiLorenzo, what is your 
feelino- toward the matter? Do you have any malice toward your 
husband? Is it something that you feel that you would like to un- 
burden yourself of ? . nl , T non 

Mrs DiLorenzo. No. sir, I have no malice. I am doing all I can 
so that my child won't have to be raised in a city like lampa. 

Mr Rice Mrs. DiLorenzo, please understand that the subpena 
which has been served on you is being kept m effect, and you will 
continue to be under subpena, subject to the further call of the com- 
mittee, even if the committee leaves Tampa. Do you understand I 

Mrs. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. The hearing will adjourn. 

(Whereupon, the hearing was adjourned, subject to the call oi the 

Chair.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



FRIDAY, DECEMBER 29, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee to Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstx\te Commerce, 

Tampa, Fla. 

The committee met, pursuant to call of the chairman, at 9 a. m., in 
the United States courthouse in Tampa, Fla., Senator Lester C. Hunt 
presiding. 

Present : Senator Hunt. 

Also present : Downey Rice and Alfred M. Klein, assistant counsel; 
George Martin and Ralph Mills, investigators. 

Senator Hunt : The committee will come to order. 

This hearing is called pursuant to a resolution of the United States 
Senate designated No. 202 of the Eighty-first Congress, second session. 
It was adopted May 3, 1950. This resolution sets up a special com- 
mittee of five members of the Senate to make an inquiry into existing 
organized crime and an examination of the manner in which it oper- 
ates ; to study its effects upon the public and also to look into its em- 
ployment of channels and vehicles of interstate commence. 

The purpose of the inquiry is to determine to what extent organized 
crime cuts across State lines and what Federal legislation is proposed 
or will be proposed by this committee to curb such criminal operations. 

The committee has held hearings in a number of cities throughout 
the Nation during the past 6 months and it has definitely established 
through competent witnesses that criminal gangs are in operation and 
that they conduct their activities without regard for State and without 
regard, in some situations, for national boundaries. 

The amount of money taken from the public in these operations is 
estimated to be $15,000,000,000 per year. I want to emphasize that 
I have said the amount of money taken from the public, not the amount 
of money that is involved on the transaction. I might add too for the 
benefit of the public since this is an open hearing that that take 
amounts approximately to the same amount as the Federal Govern- 
ment has expended in each of the past 2 years, '48 and '49, in the de- 
fense of America, in the expenditures of our military establishments. 

In a number of cities in other States, and in this State, previously 
under investigation by the committee, it is noted that criminal activi- 
ties tied in to some extent with individuals operating in Tampa. 

When the police seized the effects of Jack Dragna, a notorious Cali- 
fornia hoodlum, they found the telephone numbers of Santo Traffi- 
-cante, Sr., and James Lumia, who was a recent victim of Tampa's prev- 
alent gang murders, I think in the ratio to population of any other city 

49 



50 ORGANIZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

in the United States, and over a period of years the United States. 
Bureau of Narcotics found in its investigation of the dope traffic 
in Kansas City, Mo., that Tampa criminals are key figures in the or- 
ganized narcotic trade. Tampa is also believed to be a principal re- 
ceiving point for dope smuggled into the United States from abroad. 

To New Orleans has been traced the weapon employed in another of 
Tampa's considerable list of gang murders. There is also reliable 
information that much of the criminal business that goes on in Tampa 
is hatched up in New Orleans and is carried out here in Tampa in 
accordance with orders from New Orleans. 

This is not a definite and complete list of Tampa crime connections 
with interstate links, in fact, it is only a small sample, but these are 
some of the things that caused the committee to turn its attention to 
this city. 

Our representatives have been working here for a number of weeks 
and the evidence they have been able to obtain will be presented here 
at this hearing today and tomorrow. 

At a formal meeting of the Senate comm ittee a resolution was duly 
adopted authorizing the chairman, Senator Estes Kef auver, to appoint 
a subcommittee of one to conduct the hearing here and to take the sworn 
testimony of witnesses. Senator Kaf auver, pursuant to that resolution,, 
has designated me as a subcommittee to execute my duties under that 
appointment ; I shall hold the hearings as previously stated here in 
Tampa today and tomorrow. It should be understood at the outset 
that the purpose of this committee is not to investigate the conduct 
of local government or to inquire into crime that has no interstate 
aspect. Local government is a matter completely in the hands of local 
citizenry. It can be as good as they want it and it can be as bad as. 
they allow it to be. When, however, there appears to be organized 
crime on an interstate basis, when it further appears that the situation 
involves negligence or corruption on the part of local governmental 
officials, such a situation cannot be ignored or disregarded by this 
committee and should have a full airing in public hearings. 

The fact that a person has or has not been subpenaed to appear here 
should carry no implications of any kind. This is not a prosecuting 
body. Our sole objective is to obtain information to be relayed 
to the United States Senate for its guidance in formulating legislation 
on the subject of crime. 

Our committee has also made it a policy to turn over to local law 
enforcement officials the information it obtains through the investiga- 
tion for such action as may be called for by the evidence, which has 
been done elsewhere in the United States and holds good, of course, 
here for Tampa. 

Our staff members have advised me that there are a number of wit- 
nesses, all residents of Tampa, for whom subpenas have been issued, 
but who have absented themselves from their homes and their usual 
haunts, obviously it would appear, to dodge and prevent services of 
subpenas for them. These names, I think, have been made public. 
By thus obstructing the duties and the functioning of this committee 
of the Senate they mark themselves as persons disinterested in general 
public welfare, if not worse. I need not add that their actions will 
not be forgotten at the close of this hearing. The committee staff r 
aided by other governmental investigative and law enforcement agen- 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 51 

cies, will continue to press the search for them, and I will say, continue 
to press relentlessly. They do themselves no good by hiding. I 
call upon them now to present themselves here to give the information 
we need in this effort to curb the national menace of crime. I also 
call upon the members of their respective families, who undoubtedly 
know their whereabouts, to urge them to come forth and do their 
duties as citizens of the United States. 

The chairman is pleased this morning to call as our first witness the 
president of the American Bar Association and a distinguished citizen 
of Tampa. We are pleased at his appearance as a witness because the 
legal fraternity have a very great stake in the enforcement of law. 
They have tremendous obligations with reference to this crime situa- 
tion throughout the United States. So, I say again, it is a very great 
pleasure to have Mr. Fowler here as a witness, and I will ask Mr. 
Fowler if he will now take the witness chair. 

Mr. Fowler, only because it has been the practice of this committee 
during all of its hearings, and because there has been no exception, 
and for that reason only, I am going to ask you to please stand up 
and be sworn. 

Mr. Fowler. I am very happy to be sworn. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, do you solemnly swear that the testi- 
mony you will give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth,, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God. 

Mr. Fowler. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF CODY FOWLER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN BAR 
ASSOCIATION, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. You are appearing before our committee volun- 
tarily; you have not been subpenaed; is that correct? 

Mr. Fowler. That is correct. 

Senator Hunt. You are, of course, Mr. Fowler, because of your 
residence here in this city, quite familiar with conditions in the city 
and in the immediate vicinity ; are you not? 

Mr. Fowler. Well, of course, 1 am familiar with them, like anjr 
other citizen and lawyer of Tampa. I know the local situation like 
the rest of us. 

Senator Hunt. Now, Mr. Fowler, you were cooperative and took 
the lead in appointing certain members of the American Bar Associa- 
tion to assist this committee. Would you please explore that state- 
ment just a little, expand on it and speak of it. 

Mr. Fowler. Yes, and I have the data here. You may want to 
refer to it. Last summer sometime. Senator Kefauver, chairman of 
this committee, asked the then president of the American Bar Associ- 
ation, Mr. Harold Gallagher, to appoint a committee to work with 
your committee and to help it in carrying out its objectives — I will 
give the formal purposes of the committee in a moment. It had to be 
authorized by a proper organization of the house of delegates. That 
authorization was given about the 21st of September and one of my 
first official duties as I was formally elected on the 22d in Washing- 
ton, was to appoint such a committee. The purposes of this commit- 
tee, are to cooperate with the Special Committee of the United States 
Senate To Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce in 
making a study of the subject of the need for the modernization of 



52 ORGANIZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

the rules, procedures, and practices in the field of criminal law, the 
steps which are being- taken to codify and bring up to date the criminal 
codes, the efforts which are being made to plug loopholes in criminal 
procedures and eliminate outmoded and archaic practices and pro- 
cedures whereby violators of the law escape prosecution, the adequacy 
or inadequacy of public defenders' acts, the methods of and practices 
of sentencing, the tendency on the part of the legal profession to with- 
draw from the practice of criminal law, and so forth. Such a com- 
mittee was appointed and the Honorable Robert R. Patterson, former 
United States district judge, former Secretary of War, now practicing 
law in New York City, is chairman of that committee. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, it has come to the committee's attention 
that there are a few attorneys engaged in the practice of criminal law 
that have been actively conniving with and advising the criminal 
element in day to day contact of their operations. I am wondering 
if you would give us the benefit of the attitude of the American Bar 
Association on such practices. 

Mr. Fowler. I take it from what you said that you mean advising 
criminals as to how to violate the law with the greatest amount of 
safety. That seems to be one of their prime functions in representing 
their clients. I am sure that the groups who do that are a very small 
minority of American lawyers. The American lawyer is an officer of 
the American courts, who believes in the enforcement of law and the 
proper administration of justice and they condemn to the utmost the 
practice of any attorney in advising gangs in the manner that you 
have mentioned. 

Senator Hunt. Now, Mr. Fowler, I am sure you recognize the 
seriousness of this problem nationally, as provoked by interestate 
crime, and would you care to make any observation as to whether 
or not similar problems exist locally here in Tampa ? 

Mr. Fowler. I heard what you had to say at the opening of this 
hearing. The crime that we hear more about locally, in a general 
way, is gambling. We have not felt locally, at least in my opinion, 
that gambling was a national affair but more or less a local affair, but 
I have no detailed information on that. Certainly I am against organ- 
ized crime wherever you find it and any methods of evading the law 
and, of course, one of the worst features of organized crime, if not 
the worst one, is that too often it has been shown throughout this 
country that it also interferes with the administration of justice 
and the proper enforcement of the law in that it runs over too often 
in the contamination of the law-enforcement officers or the members 
of the judiciary in some few places. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, has the American Bar Association taken 
any disciplinary action against attorneys who are advising these 
criminals constantly and apparently are, as you said a while ago, 
advising them how to keep out of trouble, but still carry on their 
operations? 

Mr. Fowler. We have condemned the action as far as disciplinary 
action. We are limited in the scope of our ability to discipline, in 
that we can only discipline our own members, and I am proud to 
say that I don't believe that any of the men in the classification that 
you have mentioned so far as I have heard of, are members of the 
American Bar Association. That is one of the problems we are 
studying. We would be happy to discipline if we could; as an 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 53 

organization we can't. Of course, the local bar associations in the 
various cities and States file charges before the proper disciplinary 
committee and the State takes steps to have them disbarred. Yon see, 
these lawyers are admitted primarily in the State and we have no 
standing as to granting the taking away of a man's life. 

Sentaor Hunt. Your disciplinary action would simply be to expell 
them from the American bar? 

Mr. Fowler. Senator, if they are not members of the American bar 
you can't expell them. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, do you have any general knowledge 
with reference to any of the characters who have allegedly been 
engaged in underworld activities in this area ? Do you know whether 
that has continued for many years without any arrests or convictions? 

Mr. Fowler. Well, you are pretty general in your question. I know 
what is talked on the streets and you read in the newspapers over the 
years about the different individuals who are supposed to be active in 
certain of the gambling rackets. I have no specific knowledge. I 
haven't seen any gambling in Tampa of a professional nature since, 
I believe, 1925, where in certain places, in Ybor City where you had 
to be dressed in tuxedoes to get in. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, in any laxity of law enforcement with 
reference to gambling here in the city, do you think that has a tendency 
to bring about a disregard and violation of other laws? 

Mr. Fowler. Certainly. I think any time a group, gang, or an 
individual makes his living in violating one law he hasn't any hesita- 
tion of violating other laws when he wishes to. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, we are going to direct your attention 
to some charts which the staff has prepared and we would appreciate 
it if you would cai e to comment briefly on these charts. 

( Discussion off the record as to placing of charts. ) 

Mr. Rice. For your information, Mr. Fowler, this chart has been 
compiled by information obtained by the committee and is intended 
to depict a chronological history of the number of assassinations and 
attempted assassinations that have happened in Tampa. 

Mr. Fowler. You wish me to accept the facts shown on there as 
true ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Do you know from general knowledge that that 
appears to be true, or from your 

Mr. Fowler. Let me look at it a moment. Well, from my very 
general knowledge and a quick survey of the chart, I would say that 
it appears to be, according to my memory of the particular incidents, 
killings, and so forth. 

Mr. Rice. An accurate portrayal of the situation with respect to- 
assassinations here in Tampa ? 

Mr. Fowler. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now we have another chart. 

Senator Hunt. Just a moment, Mr. Rice. Mr. Fowler, in view of 
the large number of gang killings here, with apparently no arrests, 
or one arrest and no convictions, would you care to make any observa- 
tion with reference to law enforcement in the community ? 

Mr. Fowler. I don't like to, because it is not one that our people 
feel very proud of. 

(Another chart was placed in view of the witness.) 



-54 ORGANIZED* CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Rice. This second chart is a chart compiled from figures which 
have been furnished to the committee, Mr. Fowler. It speaks for 
itself as to the situation with respect to enforcement of the gambling 
laws. You see there that from January to September of this year 
there have been 96 arrests, running down to an ultimate conclu- 
sion that no one in Tampa has gone to jail for violation of the 
gambling laws this year. Would you care to make any observation 
as to the relation between charts 1 and 2 ? 

Mr. Fowler. Well, first in reference to the second chart, that is 
the one you have got entitled "Enforcement of Gambling Laws," it 
is just simply amazing that no one has been jailed if there are enough 
facts to justify 96 arrests; and certainly, comparing the two charts, 
together with what any citizen of Tampa knows, it is rather a signifi- 
cant fact that certainly should bear a good deal of investigation. I have 
no factual knowledge, but it is not a pleasing relationship that is 
indicated. 

Mr. Rice. When you mention that it would bear investigation, do 
you have any thoughts or do you have any procedure in Tampa or in 
you State whereby proper investigation, inquiring into the reasons 
behind the facts and figures, has not come to pass ? 

Mr. Fowler. Could be brought to pass, you mean ? 

Mr. Rice. No. My point is that — is there any procedure that you 
can think of, under your local law, grand juries or investigative pro- 
cedure, whereby an inquiry could be conducted? 

Mr. Fowler. There are several methods whereby complete inves- 
tigation, detailed investigation, could be made. Certainly by a grand 
jury, certainly by the law-enforcing officers and certainly by the 
various attorneys who are what we generally call prosecuting at- 
torneys, who can make an investigation, in my opinion, under the 
present laws as they exist. 

Mr. Rice. Now, the chart reflecting the assassinations running back 
to 1931, up to date. Has there been any inquiry of the nature about 
which I spoke a moment ago to explore conditions, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Fowler. Well, there have, certainly been some investigations. 
The extent of them I don't know. There have been some. No results 
have been shown, as indicated by the charts, but there certainly have 
been some investigations made. How thorough they were, I don't 
know. The results are not very constructive. 

Mr. Rice. So far as you know, there have been no appreciable 
results ? 

Mr. Fowler. The charts speak for themselves that there have been 
no results. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, whose duty is it to call a grand jury? 

Mr. Fowler. While being well versed in most fields of the law, you 
are getting into a field that is probably my weakest point — the crimi- 
nal side of it. I would say the State's attorney can call a grand jury ; 
he is one of those, certainly, that can. 

Senator Hunt. He, of course, is cognizant of what is depicted on 
these charts ? 

Mr. Fowler. Well, I am quite sure that he would be. Any attorney 
in Tampa would be. 

Mr. Rice. I think we are probably getting into a field that Judge 
Tillman, who is our next witness, could more properly explain from 
the point of view of procedure. 



ORGANIZED CRIME. IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 55 

Mr. Fowler. I always prefer to have the judge explain. 

Mr Rice You can't go wrong there. . 

Mr Fowl'er, do you have any other observations that you would like 
to make, any suggestions about the work of the committee i 
^ Mr Fowler. Well, first on a national scale, the American Bar As- 
sociation, representing the lawyers of this country, have indicated how 
thev feel. They are cooperating with you to the extent of their ability 
We have received a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation of $25,000 
to finance the committee's study, the committee I mentioned a few 
moments ago, which was formed at the reqtiest of your chairman. 
The lawyers of this country are, I would say, aroused at the informa- 
tion that has been brought forth about interstate crime, and they fee 
that something should be done about it— in other words, that it should 
be properly controlled. It has become a dangerous national menace, 
and certainly any part of any local situation that is a part of that, or 
where any gangs exist for the purpose of making their living by 
violating th? law, they should be eliminated; and I believe that is the 
view of not only the American Bar, but every State bar and local 
bar including the bar association in Tampa and the btate ol t loricla. 
If I haven't answered that sufficiently fully, I will be glad to to do so. 

Senator Hunt. Do you have any suggestions as president o± the 
American Bar Association that you would care to make to our com- 
mittee that would be helpful in making our work more effective i 

Mr Fowler. You gentlemen have been working on this, and 1 
would not presume to try to advise you. I just wish you good luck 
.and that you will be aggressive and strong, and hard, where it calls 
for being hard in your investigations. . 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, has your national organization taken 
any steps to bring pressure on the respective State bar organizations to 
■clean up their own house? . 

Mr Fowler. Well, the American Bar, together with tetate bars— 
and the State bars are just as enthusiastic in this regard as the Ameri- 
can Bar— are emphasizing that all associations, including the local 
associations, should discipline the members of their bars or keep their 
bars on a high level of ethics, and to take the proper steps to disbar 
those who are guilty of acts which justify disbarment or justify any 
disciplinary action, and I think you will find the bar associations work- 
ing with your committee and its purpose 100 percent m all of the 
•States, and certainly here in Florida. _ 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Fowler, the committee is grateful to you tor 
appearing here this morning, as you do, representing the American 
Bar Association, and we want you to know that at any time the Amer- 
ican Bar Association has a suggestion to make to us that will be help- 
ful, we shall be very pleased to have it, and the committee is grateful 
to you, Mr. Fowler. 

Mr. Fowler. Thank you. The committee, as I have told you, are 
•working on recommendations furthering your purposes, and that 
report will be forthcoming in a reasonable time. Thank you very 
much. 

Senator Hunt. Judge Henry C. Tillman. 
(Thereupon, Judge Henry C. Tillman came forward.) 

Senator Hunt. Judge, again, because it is the custom and because 
we have made no exceptions, I am asking you to be sworn. 



56 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this com- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,, 
so help you God? 

Judge Tillman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE HENRY C. TILLMAN, JUDGE r 
CIRCUIT COURT, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Judge, I am going to ask the counsel to question 
you. He has been instrumental in working up this case, and I think 
he can present the questions to you more directly than I should be' 
able to. 

Mr. Rice. Judge, we called on you today because you have been 
recognized as a leader in the forces of good government in Tampa. 
and as an authority on the jurisdiction here. 

In order to qualify your background, will you tell us how long you. 
have been on the bench as circuit judge? 

Judge Tillman. I was appointed in October 1949. 

Mr. Rice. And you have served and are serving as judge of the- 
circuit court? 

Judge Tillman. The circuit court. 

Mr. Rice. Of Hillsborough County? 

Judge Tillman. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Will you be good enough, Judge Tillman, to explain to* 
the committee a little bit about the investigative jurisdiction in Hills- 
borough County, or Florida, from a point of view of the duties of" 
the sheriff's office, State attorney's office, and the various courts, so 
we will understand who is responsible for the investigation and prose- 
cution of crimes, like gambling and murder. 

Judge Tillman. Well, the circuit court has jurisdiction over what 
we call capital cases, that is, where the penalty is death. All other 
crimes are under the jurisdiction of the criminal court of record. 

Mr. Rice. Which is the circuit court ? 

Judge Tillman. No ; the circuit court is an entirely separate court. 
The circuit court has jurisdiction of capital cases. The criminal 
court of record has jurisdiction of all cases not capital, which of" 
course includes gambling and the minor cases. The main cases, the 
circuit court cases, are murder, arson, rape, and those cases where 
the punishment is fixed by law as death. 

Mr. Rice. Now, how are cases brought to trial before the circuit 
court ? 

Judge Tillman. All right. There has got to be an investigation 
made by the grand jury and a bill of indictment presented to the 
court, charging the criminal with whatever crime it may be — murder, 
or arson, or rape. 

Now, in the criminal court of record, the county solicitor is a one- 
man grand jury, that is what it amounts to. In other words, he 
makes investigations and files the information. 

Mr. Rice. He needs no grand jury. 

Judge Tillman. He needs no grand jury. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

Judge Tillman. Of course, the prosecuting attorney of the circuit 
court is the State attorney, and the prosecuting attorney in the 
criminal court of record is the county solicitor. 



ORGANTZED' CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 57 

Mr. Rice. Now, what law-enforcement agencies are charged with 
the investigation of gambling? 

Judge Tillman. All of the police forces, that is, the sheriff and 
his deputies— the constable in each district, and I think there are two 
in this county only, and then, the police of the cities and towns. _ 

Mr. Rice. So that you have what you might call concurrent juris- 
diction between the police force, the sheriff's office, and constable. 

Judge Tillman. For the purpose of investigating crime ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. For the purpose of investigating gambling specifically? 

Judge Tillman. Gambling, specifically, yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then suppose a murder is committed m the county, 
who would take the lead in the investigation ? 

Judge Tillman. I would say that the sheriff's office would take the 
lead of the investigation, and he would be assisted by the police 
officers of the city where it happens in their immediate vicinity, or in 
Plant City, if it happened over there, and any of the municipalities. 

Mr. Rice. I see. Now, if it were before the grand jury, which made 
the inquiry, and the grand jury were exploring an assassination, for 
instance, who would take the lead in presenting the witnesses to it? 

Judge Tillman. All the witnesses before the grand jury are pre- 
sented bv the State attorney. . . 

Mr. Rice. Does the State attorney have any investigative stall? 

Judge Tillman. He has one assistant only. 

Mr. Rice, He has an assistant State attorney? 

Judge Tillman. He has an assistant State attorney. 

Mr. Rice. A lawver? 

Judo-e Tillman. A lawyer, but he has no investigator or investigat- 
ing staff of his own. He has to use the sheriff's force and the forces of 
the city police. , 

Mr. Rice. Now, as a practical matter, we have a chart here— you 
may have seen it— which depicts a great number of unsolved assassina- 
tions in your city. Having that in mind, can you give me any observa- 
tion as to the effectiveness of either the grand jury or your 
investigative agencies here in Tampa? 

Judo-e Tillman. Mr. Rice, I think the chart speaks for itselt. It 
those Sames and dates are all correct, and the results are correct, and 
there have been that many assassinations and no arrests made, I think 
it speaks for itself. . 

Mr. Rice. Would it be fair to assume from that that there is a 
serious breakdown somewhere along the line in law enforcement or the 
present procedure is impractical? . 

Judge Tillman. I think the combination of the two is the truth. 
I don't think that we have sufficient specialized investigation m this 
countv I mean investigators who are particularly trained for that 
kind of work. On the other hand, I think that many assassinations 
with no results would indicate that there has been a breakdown m 
the investigating end anyway. Now, there has been m my recollec- 
tion one grand jury investigation, and that grand jury indicted, 1 
think almost every— well, they indicted the sheriff, and indicted the 
county solicitor and thev— oh, I guess it was 8 or 10 years ago, and 
the Governor of the State at the time, I don't remember who he was 
now, but he sent a State attorney from the adjoining— adjacent cir- 
cuit here and he came down and made his investigation and he con- 



58 ORGAMZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

eluded that he didn't have enough testimony to convict anybody and' 
all those people were released. 

Mr. Rice. The net result was that no one went to the penitentiary ? 

Judge Tillman. No, no one went to the penitentiary, and in that 
particular case I don't think anybody was removed from office. 

Mr. Rice. All right, assuming that there has been a breakdown in 
law enforcement, and assuming that the — say, the State attorney was 
under fire, wculd there be any remedy as to obtaining the prosecution 
of the persons '. 

Judge Tillman. Yes, I think that if that matter was called to the 
attention of any of the circuit judges by the grand jury — you mean 
where they said the State attorney was not performing his full duty I 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Judge Tillman. I think any of the circuit judges, if that was called 
to the attention by the grand jury? would immediately contact the 
Governor and ask that another State attorney be sent in here for the 
purpose of seeing that the State attorney's office functioned. 

Mr. Rice. Is that possible under your procedure ? 

Judge Tillman. It is possible under the law. Now, the court itself 
has no authority and the court — the court does have authority to ap- 
point what they call elisor sheriff in the event the sheriff is interested 
in the matter before the grand jury or anywhere else, and that has 
been done in some counties in Florida. The circuit court has authority. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you have mentioned that if the circuit court called 
upon the Governor to send what you might call a special prosecutor — 
does that leave the option entirely with the Governor as to whether 
that shall be done or not ? 

Judge Tillman. Yes, it is the only procedure I know whereby it 
could be effected. 

Mr. Rice. It is not mandatory ? 

Judge Tillman. It is not mandatory, but I don't think the Gov- 
ernor would have to have any more than a request from the circuit, 
judge to the effect that it had been called to his attention by the grand 
jury that the State attorney wasn't doing his duty and asking that one 
be sent in here — a substitute. I think he would do it, I don't care 
who the Governor is. 

Mr. Rice. That could be done ? 

Judge Tillman. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Has it ever been done in Hillsborough County, to your 
knowledge ? 

Judge Tillman. It has not. As a matter of fact, I have never 
heard of an instance in Hillsborough County where the grand jury- 
ever reported that fact to the circuit court. We have four circuit 
judges now. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Judge Tillman. And I know it hasn't been done — well, I would 
just say it hasn't been done, because I have been here all the time and 
1 know what goes on in reference to the court. 

Mr. Rice. To depart a moment from the subject matter at hand, 
do you know, judge, about the beverage or alcoholic-beverage-control 
laws, and so forth? Do you know whether an individual who has a 
criminal record can hold a license or be an officer ? 

Judge Tillman. I am not definite in my knowledge of that law 
itself, but I know that a license is not supposed to be given to any man 



ORGANIZED CRIME. IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 59 

who has a criminal record. I know that those things have to be 
approved by the board of county commissioners in the county, and I 
think by the tax collector. I am not very familiar with that law at 
all. It doesn't come up in my court. 

Mr. Rice. I thought as a matter of general knowledge that you. 
might know that. 

Judge Tillman. My impression is that that is the law, that a man 
who has got a criminal record is not supposed to be given a license 
to sell beverages, alcoholic beverages. 

Mr. Rice. Or to be directly or indirectly involved as a licensee? 

Judge Tillman. As a licensee. That is what my understanding is. 

Senator Hunt. From your observation in living here what has been 
the attitude of the Tampa people? Do they want this type of con- 
dition of price and gambling to continue, or would they like it wiped 
out ? 

Judge Tillmax. They would like it wiped out, sir. A great many 
of them would like it to continue, but I am speaking, by and large, 
of the great majority of the good people of this community, they 
would like to see it wiped out. 

Senator Htjxt. I am sure you can answer this question, judge, yes 
or no; if you care to answer it that way, of course you can elaborate, 
if you please. Do you think this condition could exist without the 
cooperation and without the knowledge and without the local law- 
enforcement officers being in on it ? 

Judge Tillman. If you would strike out that last, I would say 
"no." I think it could exist without them being in on it. But I 
don't see how in the world it could exist without them having knowl- 
edge of it, because, you know, all those murders out there, everybody 
is obliged to know about it. 

Senator Hunt. "Would you care to observe if local law-enforcement 
officers are prone to be derelict in their duty? 

Judge Tillman. I could not give you a direct answer on that be- 
cause I don't know. Judging by results, there is something wrong 
someway, but where it is I do not know, Senator, If I did, I would 
tell you. 

Senator Hunt. For the record you do say there is something wrong ? 

Judge Tillman. There is something wrong somewhere ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. "With respect to the work of this committee, Judge, what 
is the attitude of the local people as you know it? 

Judge Tillman. "Well, as you know, Florida is pretty much of a 
great State's rights State, and we think that our people welcome any 
investigation made by anybody that would seek to better the condi- 
tions under which w T e live and under which we have got to raise our 
children; and I think that as long as this committee confines itself 
to what you stated at the beginning, that its efforts will be fairly 
approved by the people of this community. I do not think that in this 
community, or in any other Florida community, and I might say from 
my general knowledge, from any other community in the country,, 
that they would want this committee to run our local affairs for us. 
You know what I mean. Senator. 

Senator Hunt. As having been Governor of a State for 6 years, I do. 

Mr. Rice. To carry that further, if the committee should adduce 
what we might say interesting testimony, reflecting on local condi- 
tions, what use could be made of that testimony ? 



60 ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Judge Tillman. If you would send that testimony to any one of 
the circuit judges, particularly to me, and I am speaking- for myself 
and I can talk to the others, I will certainly call it to the attention of 
the grand jury and instruct them to investigate it with all of the power 
they have got. In a general way, I have already charged them to that 
effect, that they had the power — and I am a great believer in the grand 
jury having authority over all it surveys — if you get any testimony 
that you think would be pertinent to a grand jury investigation, if it 
is sent to me, I will give it to the grand jury. 

Senator Hunt. Thank you, Judge, for appearing before us. Your 
testimony has been very valuable, and, with reference to your last 
suggestion, of course, that is exactly what we do with the facts that 
we develop, to make it available to the local law-enforcement officers. 
I thank you. 

Judge Tillman. Thank you. 

( Witness excused. ) 

Senator Hunt. Will witness Charles M. Wall come forward please 
and take the witness chair? 

(Mr. Wall appeared and came forward.) 

Senator Hunt. Take this chair, Mr. Wall, and will you please raise 
your right hand and be sworn \ 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES M. WALL, TAMPA, FLA., ACCOMPANIED 
BY PAT WHITAKER, ATTORNEY 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this com- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Wall. I do. 

Mr. Rice. For the record, we will indicate that Mr. Wall is ap- 
pearing with counsel, Pat Whitaker ; and your address, Mr. Whitaker ? 

Mr. Pat Whitaiver. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call to the 
attention of the committee, that Mr. Wall is at the present time under 
indictment in Dade County, charged with a felony, for violation of 
the gambling laws. That case is pending and undisposed of. I am 
calling that to the attention of the chairman, with the hope that, in 
the couching and propounding of the questions it will be remembered 
the condition that he is in, with this pending felony against him ; with 
the hope that the examination will be restricted so as not to militate 
against him in the trial of the pending indictment. I have studied 
the statute some with reference to the immunity accorded before your 
committee, and on account of the different sovereignty and the grades 
of the protection, I just want to call that to the committee's attention 
with the hope that in the examination it will be borne in mind that he 
is under that prosecution and that he will not be unnecessarily em- 
barrassed or handicapped in his defense under that felony charge. 

Senator Hunt. The committee's counsel notes the rights of the 
witness under such situations, and of course you have the right to 
advise your client when he feels that any answer that he might give 
may incriminate him; and while the questions may be pointed and 
may be direct, and we are attempting to get information and we hope 
that you will give us every cooperation that you can without drawing 
too strict a line on where he can and cannot answer. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 61 

Mr. Rice. For the record, when was that indictment returned, 
approximately? 

Mr. Whitaker. It was returned— do you remember when your 

committee was in Miami ? 
Mr. Rice. Very well. 
Mr. Whitaker. Well, it was returned after your committee was 

Mr. Rice. That would be in 1050 and cover the statutory period? 

Mr. Whitaker. It was returned in the last couple of months, after 
your committee was there this year. 

Mr. Rice. We will recognize the constitutional privileges m connec- 
tion with that period of time. 

Mr. Wall, we are calling upon you for any assistance and coopera- 
tion you can give us in furnishing to the committee certain background 
information about gambling activities in the Tampa area. We recog- 
nize you as what we might term an elder statesman m that connec- 
tion. 

Air. Wall. I thank you. 

Mr Rice. If you would be kind enough for the benefit of the chair- 
man, to tell us, as you did a grand jury in 1938, how it happened that 
you personally became involved in the rackets down through the 
years, and what happened as far as the development of bolita and 
other' forms of gambling, and how it occurred here, we are interested 
in knowing the history of the community. 

Mr. Wall. Well, of course, I have to testify from memory. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. . • 

Mr. Wall. Of those, a good many people that were m the bolita 
business at that time, as I remember, we probably were the largest and 
took lay-offs, what I mean by lay-offs, if a fellow got too much money 
on a money. 

Mr. Rice. Let us start this way, Mr. Wall. How old a man are 
you now? 

Mr. Wall. My next birthday will be in March. I will be 71. 

Mr. Rice. And you were born in Florida ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And a local man? 

Mr. Wall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And lived here all your life? 

Mr. Wall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When did you start? Was it during prohibition? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Before that ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. • 

Mr. Rice. And what was your first gambling activity, what did you 
do, how did you first become involved ? 

Mr. Wall* I think I worked in a gambling house. 

Mr. Rice. And where was that? 

Mr. Wall. In a place we used to call Fort Brook. 

Mr. Rice. And what was your job there? 

Mr. Wall. A crap dealer. 

Mr. Rice. And that was a table game operation? 

Mr. Wall. Yes, sir. 



6S958 — 51 — pt. la- 



62 ORGANIZE© CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Rice. I take it that for a while then you were engaged in table 
game activities? 

Mr. Wall. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. And then what happened ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, then, as the years went on I think I was still in 
that, and then in addition to that we had bolita. 

Mr. Rice. When would you say the bolita developed in the area, 
Mr. Wall, approximately? 

Mr. Wall. The first bolita that I remember, was, oh, in 1894 or 
1895 and 1896 and 1898, a little Spaniard here conducted one. 

Mr. Rice. What is bolita ? 

Mr. Wall. Bolita, as I know it, the way we used to conduct it, we 
took 100 balls. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Wall. And spread them out where everybody could see them 
and then we put them in a sack. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Wall. And we would shake the sack, the man that was handling 
the bolita. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Wall. And when you put them into it, to catch the ball you 
would throw it to him. 

Mr. Rice. He would catch the sack ? 

Mr. Wall. Would catch the ball in the sack, he would grab the 
round thing like that, and the one remained in there, and take that 
off, and take the other 99 out and put that in rotation, and of course 
that was the number that won. 

Mr. Rice. Those balls were numbered ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. So that the one was left in the sack ? 

Mr. Wall. No, sir. The one that was out of the sack. 

Mr. Rice. The one that you cut off was the winning number ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What odds were paid on that bet ? 

Mr. Wall. I think maybe in the early days, I think 90. 

Mr. Rice. 90 to 1 ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is it now? 

Mr. Wall. I don't know ; and on Cuba I think that was 90. It's 
been reduced, maybe, to 80. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

Now then, that was what you could call a throwing? 

Mr. Wall. Yes ; daily. 

Mr. Rice. A bolita throwing ? 

Mr. Wall. A daily throwing. 

Mr. Rice. Did there come a time when they stopped these throw- 
ings and used other means of selecting the number? 

Mr. Wall. Not during the time that I was associated with it. 

Mr. Rice. How about the card cutting ? 

Mr. Wall. I am not familiar with that. That wasn't done during 
the time that I was associated with it. 

Mr. Rice. In connection with these throwings, as you call them, is 
it possible or was it possible to rig the throwing in such a way that 
you could control which ball would be selected? 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 63 

Mr. Wall. I have heard of that being done ; yes. 

Mr. Bice. How did they do that ? 

Mr. Wall. I only know what I have been told. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wall. I am told that it was done with two sacks, among the 
very ignorant. You couldn't do that in front of intelligent people. 
I was told that the gentleman had an idea that he could take a hundred 
of those ivory balls and go into them, dig the insides out, and put cork 
in there, then take a hundred other balls and take them out and put 
lead in a hundred ; so, naturally, by taking 90 balls stuffed with cork 
and putting 10 balls, much heavier, and shaking the sack and pitching 
them on a table, and letting a fellow catch from the bottom, the proba- 
bility was — while it was not absolutely a sure thing — the chances were 
greatly in favor of 1 of those 10 heavy balls being in the bottom. 

Mr. Rice. I see. In other words, you couldn't win on that one. 

Mr. Wall. Well, not without somebody bet on the heavy ball. 

Mr. Rice. I think, for the benefit of the committee and the general 
public, you might be able to elaborate a little bit on the ways of 
cheating in a table-game operation, a dice game. What are some of 
the ways that you have heard that they do that ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I have heard that some of the catalogs have what 
is known as loaded dice. If they put the load into, say, the ace part, 
why, naturally the ace would go down and the six would come up. 
Then I have heard that there is what is known as bust-outs. 

Mr. Rice. What is a bust-out? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I can only tell you what I have heard. 

Mr. Rice. Yes ; what you have heard. 

Mr. Wall. Well, if I were shooting dice and somebody decided 
that I really could not win and my eyesight wasn't so good, they 
might give me a pair of dice that I couldn't make a seven with, known 
as tops and bottoms, and after I made my point they would give me 
a pair of dice that I couldn't make the eight with, say. Of course, 
it wouldn't be a physical impossibility, but the probability is there 
would be about a hundred to one that I wouldn't. 

Mr. Rice. What is the bust-out? What does that mean? 

Mr. Wall. That means switching dice. 

Mr. Rice. The bust-out is a switch ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. That is what they call busting out. 

Mr. Rice. How about roulette? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I know nothing about that except what I have 
been told. I have been cheated at roulette. 

Mr. Rice. How were you cheated ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, some fellows entered the place that I was inter- 
ested in and raised the bridges, made the bridges in one 12 higher than 
the other 24, so when the ball got to those 12 of course the ball, that 
being higher, was rather inclined to go into 1 of that 12. 

Mr. Rice. It was trapped right in the 12 ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Rather than in some other number ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long did that go on before you discovered you were 
being cheated ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I wasn't there when it happened, but being of a 
rather suspicious nature, I looked it over carefully the next day, and 



64 ORGANIZED CRIME- IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

got one or two other fellows, and we decided that was the condition, 
and by measuring, and so forth and so on, we found out we had been 
cheated. 

Mr. Rice. Then what action was suggested to be taken? 

Mr. Wall. Put those bridges back where they belonged and be 
more careful. 

Mr. Rice. Nothing was done with the people who had something 
to do with the raising of the bridges ? 

Mr. TV all. Oh, no, no. 

Mr. Rice. You continued to accept them as customers? 

Mr. Wall. Well, they weren't customers that want to come and 
play without the bridges were raised — but we would have accepted 
them. 

Mr. Rice. They didn't see fit to come around anymore, after that, I 
take it? 

Mr. Wall. Well, they didn't come around. I assume they 

Mr. Rice. There are other ways of fixing a wheel, aren't there ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I have heard that it can be fixed with a battery. 

Mr. Rice. How does that work ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I have never seen that. I have had a gentleman 
explain to me how he was cheated one time with something in a lady's 
pocketbook. She bored a hole through the wheel, then, with a little 
needle, as the wheel went around, she could throw that ball in two or 
three numbers, you know, on this 

Mr. Rice. I don't follow that at all. She bored a hole in the wheel ? 

Mr. Wall. No, no. You have seen roulette ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wall. You know the track on which the ball runs ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. You know on the outside the ball goes against that 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. Now then, if a hole was bored through that track — 
understand ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. And the ball was spinning — the wheels don't spin very 
fast — if a wire was put through there, of course, that would knock the 
ball into one of two or three numbers. 

Mr. Rice. That would stop the ball in its flight in front of the 
number ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What does a pocketbook have to do with it ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, in operation, a lady with a pocketbook wouldn't 
be so noticeable. 

Mr. Rice. What would she do? Project the needle through the 
pocketbook ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. She worked from the pocketbook and, of course, 
she has to have somebody working with her, playing with her. 

Mr. Rice. Are there any other ways that you have heard of? 

Mr. Wall. Oh, I have heard ox a wheel that could be trained with 
an electric battery. 

Mr. Rice. That is a magnetic proposition, isn't it? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. Of course, these things may not be true, my just 
hearing it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 65 

Mr. Rice. Nevertheless, when you were engaged in those operations 
you did take frequent steps to check the possibilities that that might 
be happening? 

Mr. Wall. Well, yes. 

Mr. Rice. There came a time during your life when there were 
some attempts made on your life. We would like to know about that, 
how the first one occurred and what happened and when it was. 

Mr. Wall. I imagine that was about in — oh, maybe around '38. 

Mr. Rice. According to our records, there was an attempt made in 
1930, Mr. Wall. Is that correct I 

Mr. Wall. '30? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wall. It is possible. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. You mean there have been — you have been shot at so 
many times it didn't make an impression on you anymore \ 

Mr. Wall. No, I wouldn't say that, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us, seriously, about it. 

Mr. Wall. I don't remember the date. 

Honestly, I just don't remember the date. 

Mr. Rice. The first time it happened, what happened ? Certainly 
that made an impression on you. 

Mr. Wall. Oh, yes. The first time it happened I came out of my 
garage. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. And my wife was with me, and she was a little in front 
of me, and I came out on the sidewalk, out on the sidewalk to my 
front gate, and some folks came up in an automobile, and a fellow 
began shooting with a pistol — I don't know whether it was a pistol 
or a revolver or what it was. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. But I didn't realize anybody was shooting until the 
thing hit me and then, of course 

Mr. Rice (interrupting). Hit you in the back? 

Mr. Wall. Well, it kind of — as the Negro says — it glimpsed me. 

Mr. Rice. It glimpsed you ? 

Mr. Wall. Then, I fell down, and somebody shot a shotgun, but 
of course I was down when they shot the shotgun and the buckshot 
didn't hit me. Then the car drove on away, and I think I was so 
scared I shot at it. I think maybe I had a pistol, too. And then 
I got in the house. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir ; there were two men ? 

Mr. Wall. I couldn't tell. 

Mr. Rice. Or at least two. One with a shotgun and one with a 
revolver ? 

Mr. Wall. I thought there were three. 

Mr. Rice. Was there any investigation of that by law enforcement 
authorities ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go before the grand jury? 

Mr. Wall. No, the authorities came out immediately. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wall. And they were very much concerned, but I didn't 
know — the surprise was so great I was rather frightened and scared— 



66 ORGANIZE© CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

a man doesn't think under those circumstances — at least, I know I 
don't. But what you. do is rather instinctive. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. Was anyone ever arrested ? 

Mr. Wall. No, not that I heard of. 

Mr. Rice. You didn't testify before the grand jury. You just told 
the officer what happened and that was the end of it ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes ; they came to my home. 

Mr. Rice. Have you any idea who did it ? 

Mr. Wall. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever found out ? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you said that occurred while you were on the way 
to the garage or from the garage? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. I had left town here about 10 o'clock at the tele- 
graph office on Morgan Street and had gone home. 

Mr. Rice. Have you done anything to remedy that situation out 
there between the house and the garage so that it is not quite as 
exposed as it used to be ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, the last time they did it — that something like that 
occurred — a friend of mine, a businessman, came out and built an 
entrance from the garage into that bedroom. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wall. And I can drive in there. If I had a car on a rainy 
day. And I wouldn't get wet. I could go right into that room. 

Mr. Rice. Even if it were a hail of bullets or what not? 

Mr. Wall. Well, it would help. 

Mr. Rice. Now, can you remember the next time that something like 
that happened ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, the next time. Maybe that was in '38 or '39. 
I was going home and a fellow shot out of the back of a truck a couple 
of times. 

Mr. Rice. What with? 

Mr. Wall. A shotgun. I didn't see the shotgun — just the barrel of 
it after the first shot. 

Mr. Rice. You Avere driving the car ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Then what happened ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, of course, I heard the shot and didn't hear the 
sound, and when they hit, why those things went around me — they 
didn't hurt me much, just burnt me a little bit. 

Mr. Rice. Just glimpsed you again ? 

Mr. Wall. Just glimpsed me again. So I begin to dodge and try to 
do the best I could until I saw that thing go down in the back of the 
truck. So I started on by that and then, another gentleman climbed 
in on the front seat with a shotgun and I thought maybe he wanted 
to shoot me, too, and I guess he did, because about the time he shot 
I dodged down and he tore my car up pretty bad, so I took my foot off 
the accelerator, and the car was moving, and I don't know — I kind 
of outguessed him, and turned the wheel to the right and it went up 
on the sidewalk and wobbled a little bit, and I heard the truck leave, 
and I was very glad to part company with it, so then, I came up for air 
and drove on home. 

Mr. Rice. Now, was that reported to the police ? 

Mr. Wall. No, they came out there. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 67 

Mr. Kice. Was it the police or the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Wall. Both. . 

Mr. Rice. Did they continue the investigation? 

Mr. Wall. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go before the grand jury? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Was anyone ever arrested? 

Mr. Wall. No, not that I heard of. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know who did it ? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any threats before it or any warning ( 

Mr. Wall. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. It was a complete surprise to you ? 

Mr. Wall. Absolutely. I wouldn't have been on the street if I had 
had any warning. 

Mr. Rice. Did you know whether the murder weapon or the shot- 
gun or any of the weapons were ever traced or found or anything ? 
= Mr. Wall. I am not sure. I think one of the city officials— the 
chief of detectives at that time— I think he said he sent it to Wash- 
ington to the FBI, and I think— I don't think they had a law in those 
days where you had to register when you bought a gun. 

Mr. Rice. They found a gun ? 

Mr. Wall. They only got the two guns but they were pretty well 
burned up. You see, the truck went a few blocks from where I live 
and they set it afire — so I was told — but I think this fellow said he had 
an idea — some idea as to where the guns were sold or something like 
that — as I remember, now I may be mistaken. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. Where was it ? 

Mr. Wall. I don't know. He would probably know. 

Mr. Rice. Was it New Orleans? 

Mr. Wall. I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. Where was the truck from ? Where was the truck traced 
to? 

Mr. Wall. They thought the truck was burned— they thought the 
truck was sold on Grand Central Avenue at a second-hand place 
there. 

Mr. Rice. It was sold right here in Tampa ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. It wasn't brought in from out of the State ? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure about that ? 

Mr. Wall. No; I am not sure. I am just telling you what the 
officer that was working on it — what his conclusion was. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever hear that it came from Kansas City? 

Mr. Wall. No; I never heard that. I never heard that. 

Mr. Rice. Or that the gun was bought in New Orleans ? 

Mr. Wall. No ; I don't think I ever heard that. 

Mr. Rice. It could be so, though? 

Mr. Wall. Oh, yes. I don't know where it was bought. 

Mr. Rice. Now, what happened the next time ? 

Mr. Wall. Let's see. The next time I was coming downtown with 
a fellow, and the young fellow I was riding with he put on brakes 
real quick and I went against the glass. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 



68 ORGANIZE© CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Wall. In the front of the ear. Then, when I came up I saw 
something out of an automobile in front of me — and they were stopped, 
too — like a hoe handle or fishing rod or something about that width. 
Why, somebody shot and, of course, I ducked down under the front 
of the car. 

Mr. Rice. This car had been following you or following your car? 

Mr. Wall. I don't know. That is the first I saw of it. 

Mr. Rice. Why did the driver put on the brakes ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, I don't know. We stopped. I know it was just 
the bullet. 

Mr. Rice. Was there one shot? 

Mr. Wall. It was more that that. There was just one bullet that 
went through the windshield of the car that I was in. 

Mr. Rice. It didn't hit you ? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Then, the car continued on ? 

Mr. Wall. No ; it started backing. 

Mr. Rice. What did the other car do ? 

Mr. Wall. They started backing, too. 

Mr. Rice. Well, we are backing up now. 

Mr. Wall. So, I think there was a car coming in the other direc- 
tion. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. And we went around that car and those fellows in the 
other, car hit him, so we backed into a side street and the fellows 
that were in the car backed up withms and went ahead. 

Mr. Rice. They went in another direction ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. They went like they were going, to start with. 

Mr. Rice. Was there an investigation of that ? 

Mr. Wall. Yes. That afternoon some city detectives got me and 
wanted to know if I could be of any help to them and so forth and 
so on. 

Mr. Rice. Was there a grand jury investigation? Did you testify 
before a grand jury? 

Mr. Wall. I didn't testify. If there was an investigation I never 
heard of it. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, do you mean to say that you have a situa- 
tion here — was this in the daytime or nighttime ? 

Mr. Wall. The first time was in the nighttime. 

Mr. Rice. And this last time ? 

Mr. Wall. The second time was about 5 o'clock in the afternoon 
or a quarter to five. The last time was about — oh, 11 — 10:30 or 11 
o'clock. Between 10 and 11. 

Mr. Rice. You had a situation where a car overtook you and then 
there was a shot and it then backed up and another car collided with 
the second car, and then, left, and they never did find out who did 
that? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. No one was ever arrested? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. No suspects? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Now, how many times were you fired upon ? 

Mr. Wall. Just three. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 69 

Mr. Rice. Just three. And to sum it up, no one has ever been ac- 
cused of the attempts as far as you know? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. You have no idea who did it? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. Where they came from ? 

Mr. Wall. No. , , 

Mr. Rice. I wonder, Mr. Wall, if you can draw on your background 
a little bit and tell us about whether— about what you might call the 
powers in the rackets here in Tampa— who they were in the old days? 
Were they Cubans or Spanish or Italian or— whether there has been 
any cycle of domination in Tampa \ Do you understand me? 

Mr. Wall. I don't think there were any powers much in my early 
days. I think in certain districts people wanted some liberality, as 
they termed it, and they had that. If some fellow was cheated, or 
they found out that minors patronized a place of that kind, or a man 
under the influence of liquor was beaten out of any money, or some 
fellow that couldn't afford to lose money, lost some, and his family 
knew about it, the enforcement officers would arrest you and put you 
out of business. 

Mr. Rice. Well, I believe in previous testimony you have referred 
to the coming of out-of-State gangs or a syndicate from California 
into the area. What happened then? 

Mr. Wall. In California ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, California. 

Mr. Wall. I don't think I ever testified to that. 

Mr. Rice. Yes; I think you had something to say about a bingo 
game being 

Mr. Wall (interrupting). Oh, yes. Yes; I don't know whether 
the fellow was in California or not, I heard he went to California 
when he left here. He was a fellow who didn't live here. He came 
in here to open a bingo parlor, but they didn't permit him to open it, 
and I think he lost what rent he had paid, probably or maybe he paid 
no rent, I don't know, but I don't think he was of the vicious type. 

Mr. Rice. No. My point was had there been any penetration of the 
local rackets by individuals from California? 

Mr. Wall. I couldn't tell you about that. I have been in no way 
directly or indirectly mixed up in any gambling in this county since 
oh, late in 1939 or 1940. 

Mr. Rice. In this county ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, that's what you are asking me about, I assume. 

Mr. Rice. Just to clear up one thing. There were three attempts 
on your life, not five? 

Mr. Wall. I don't think I remember the other two. 

Mr. Rice. You probably would have remembered them, don't you 
think? 

Mr. Wall. Oh, yes. No ; I am sure there were only three. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any reason why anyone would want to make 
a target out of you ? Do you know any reason ? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. The situation goes beyond coincidence when it occurs 
three times. You realize that ? 
Mr. Wall. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. Is there anything you want to say on that ? 



70 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. About the reason why or the identity of them ? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Senator Hunt. Could it be because you are quite influential in the 
gambling underworld and there were those who wished to get you 
out of the way ? 

Mr. Wall. Oh, I couldn't tell you. It could be, of course, but 
I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Rice. Do you feel that you have been afforded adequate police 
protection during your lifetime? 

Mr. Wall. You mean with reference to being shot at ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wall. Oh, yes, I guess so. I haven't given it any thought 
much. 

Mr. Rice. But it is perfectly all right with you if every year or 
two someone takes a shot ? 

Mr. Wall. Quite the contrary. 

Mr. Rice. Then, what is the situation? You haven't had adequate 
protection, have you ? 

Mr. Wall. Well, there was nobody right there behind me looking 
after me, but every time this occurred an officer would come and 
talk and ask me if I wanted to cooperate and see if we could find the. 
people, and so forth and so on. But it wasn't the easiest thing in 
the world. If you are driving along and somebody shoots in your 
direction, especially when they are close to you, and it scrapes and 
hurts you a little bit — I can't speak for anybody else — I am speaking 
for myself — but the element of surprise, but it frightens you and 
you are scared, and I wasn't much interested in who it was that was 
doing it. I was interested in keeping from getting killed. 

Mr. Rice. But when the thing settled down a little bit, you are in- 
terested in seeing that the person responsible wouldn't try it again, 
are you not ? 

Mr. Wall. Very much. 

Mr. Rice. And that situation has never been taken care of? 

Mr. Wall. No. 

Mr. Rice. I think that is all. 

Senator Hunt (to Mr. Whitaker) . How long have you beeen repre- 
senting this client? 

Mr. Whitaker. Mr. Chairman, I don't represent him on any re- 
tainer. I have represented Mr. Wall, I think on two occasions. Do 
you mean how long have I been employed this time ? 

Senator Hunt. Yes. 

Mr. Whitaker. I have been employed this time since this indict- 
ment, this subpena. 

Senator Hunt. You have not, as I understand, been retained 
by Mr. Wall down through the years on a retainer fee ? 

Mr. Whitaker. Oh, no. 

Senator Hunt. When you were shot at so many times did you ever 
employ an attorney and attempt an investigation on your own? 

Mr. Wall. No, no. No; I didn't see how that would do much 
good. 

Senator Hunt. You seem to display a remarkable lack of interest 
in the target that these people were making of you. I can't under- 
stand why you didn't do something about it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 71 

Mr. Wall. Well, I conferred with officials. 

Mr. Rice. I think that is all. Thank you, Mr. Wall, and Mr. 

Senator Hunt. Will Witness Noah W. Caton come forward, please? 
(Noah W. Caton came forward.) 

TESTIMONY OF NOAH W. CATON, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

SenatoTlIuNT. For the record, at this time I wish the three sheets 
to be numbered, respectively, Nos. 2, 3, and 4, and admitted as exhibits 
for the record. . . , ., . , 

(Whereupon said charts were received m evidence as exhibits 2 
3, and 4, respectively, and appear in the appendix on pp. 482 and 48-3.) 

Mr. Rice. Will you state your name and address I 

Mr. Caton. My name is N. W.— Noah W. is the right name— Caton, 
C-a-t-o-n. I live at 808 East Chelsea. 

Mr Rice. What has been your occupation, Mr. Caton ? 

Mr. Caton. My last occupation was with the Air Force in the train- 
ing of units during the war. 

Mr. Rice. Now, how long have you known Sheriff Culbreath * 

Mr. Caton. Well, approximately about 18 years. 

Mr. Rice. Have you done work for him from time to time I 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What sort of work was that ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, there was— before the war I operated a small 
marine ways here that also did outside mechanical work on boats, the 
marine line and stuff. I did installation of marine engines, and so 
forth and so on like that, for Mr. Culbreath. .•,.-, , 

Mr. Rice. Have you installed marine engines m any of his boats t 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir ; I installed an engine for him. I won't give 
the exact date, but it was sometime before the war. 

Mr. Rice. How many boats does he have ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, to my knowledge, he had one large-sized cruis- 
er—that is, approximately 40 feet. I won't give it exact— and one 
smaller, what we call an open fishing boat. 

Mr. Rice. What would you estimate to be the value of the cruiser i 

Mr. Caton. J^ell, you mean what it would be worth, what it could 
be sold for now ? 

Mr! Caton. Well, approximately, it ought to be worth around four 
or five thousand dollars. 

Mr. Rice. How much was the engine worth that you installed i 

Mr. Caton. Well, I wouldn't be able to give the exact price of it. 
I can give you the horsepower, and so forth and so on like that. 

Mr. te RicE. Well, what would you estimate? 

Mr. Caton. Well, the new price of it would be, possibly, $3,000. 

Mr. Rice. Now, did there come a time when you were approached by 
Sheriff Culbreath to go into an enterprise with him ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 



72 ORGANIZE© CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Eice. Tell the committee about that, when it was, when it 
started? 

Mr. Caton. Well, the first of it was before the war. We talked of 
the business someplace on the beach, or someplace like that, in the 
marine ways and also a fish business, and about that time the war 
came along and we regarded the fact that the war was coming on and 
didn't want to try it, Later, after the war, before I was released from 
the Army, he approached me one day and asked me did I want to con- 
tinue on what we talked about before the war. I told him "Yes ; I 
would like to." So, he told me to locate a piece of property and 'he 
would finance it, and the verbal agreement was that he was to furnish 
the money to buy the piece of property, put in the Avays and also a 
freezer, and equip the place for business, and that I was to draw a 
salary ; and, when the money had been paid back to him as to what he 
put in it, I was to be a one-half interest in the business. 

Mr. Rice. So that you, after the purchase price was taken care of, 
were to be fifty-fifty partners ? 
Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Was any part of that agreement reduced to writing? 
Mr. Caton. No ; not any of that part. 
Mr. Rice. It was merely an oral agreement ? 
Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Then, what did you do in furtherance of that proposition ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, I located a piece of property over on the beach ; 

and, for the reason that it was under a lease, we negotiated a deal with 

a man for the property. He said he would sell it, but it was under 

lease for around 3 years. 

Mr. Rice. Where was this property? 
Mr. Caton. It was in Pass-A-Grille. 
Mr. Rice.. What was it ? A lot and a building ? 
Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. With whom did you negotiate? Who owned it? 
Mr. Caton. Well, I can't pronounce the name exactly, but the best 
1 can get it is Zekosky. 

Mr. Rice. A man by the name of Zekosky ? 
Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. He owned the property ? 
Mr. Caton. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. With his wife? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. ( 

Mr. Rice. Did they operate some business on the property? 
Mr. Caton. No. I think it was leased to Mr. Her, of the Her 
Fish Co. 

Mr. Rice. What did you tell Mr. Zekosky about the reason you 
wanted the property ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, I explained to him that I was negotiating with 
the man ; we were talking about the deal, and that I thought it was a 
good proposition for me if we could buy the property. He told me, 
well, he would sell the property to me if it was going to be improved 
and put in condition to improve the island or the peninsula, whatever 
you call it; that he didn't have any further use for it other than just to 
have it rented, and would like to dispose of it for that purpose. 

Mr. Rice. What was the time of this negotiation, Mr. Caton? 
What year ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 73 

Mr. Caton. In 1946. 

Mr. Rice. In 1946? 

Mr. Caton. In the early part of 1946 ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What was the offering price or the asking price? 

Mr. Caton. Well, at the beginning it was supposed to have been 
$15,000 ; but, through negligence on our part, it got up to $20,000. 

Mr. Rice. I didn't follow you. What was the reason for its getting 
to 20? 

Mr. Caton. Negligence on mine and Mr. Culbreath's part. It went 
up to $20,000, because we made an agreement one time, and later we 
made another agreement ; and then, the third agreement, it was up to 
$20,000. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us how the deal developed? 

Mr. Caton. Well, we was over there and saw Mr. Zekosky 

Mr. Rice. Who was "we" ? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Culbreath and I. We negotiated the deal and we 
agreed on a price of $15,000. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Caton. Well, later, I think it was Mr. Zekosky went away and 
was gone for 3 weeks, approximately 3 weeks, and when I went back 
to him, in the meantime we had bought Mr. Iler's equipment, expecting 
to buy the place. 

Mr. Rice. Who is "we" again? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Culbreath and I. 

Mr. Rice. What did you pay for that ? 

Mr. Caton. $750 was for the equipment, and there was 

Mr. Rice. Who put up the money ? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. In cash? * 

Mr. Caton. Well, I think it was a check. 

Mr. Rice. Were you there? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. So that you bought Iler's interest? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. In the lease and the property ? 

Mr. Caton. In the equipment. 

Mr. Rice. Then, what did you do with the Zekoskys? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Zekosky, when we went back, when I went back 
to him to make an appointment for Mr. Culbreath to meet me in 
St. Petersburg in some attorney's offices for the final deal, Mr. 
Zekosky told me: "Why, this price was several weeks ago, a few 
weeks ago," he says, "I can't hold to that. You didn't put up any 
money, and I can't deal on that unless you offer more money." Mr. 
Culbreath and I went back again and talked to Mr. Zekosky. The 
agreement then was supposed to be $18,000, and we were going to 
pay that. There still wasn't any money put up. 

Mr. Caton. So time elapsed, for I don't know exactly what reason. 
Anyway, there wasn't anything put up. We made another date, and 
when I went over there to make the date for him he said "No" ; that 
was passed, and he had more money offered for the property and had 
to have it, if lie has it. So, I came back and negotiated with Mr. 
Culbreath again. So, he said we would go over again, and we made 
the third trip and this time they didn't agree, and later I came back 
and talked to Mr. Culbreath and he told me to go back and talk to 



74 ORGANIZED CRIME* IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Zekosky and make him the proposition if he would sell him the 
property and allow me the commission that he would pay him $18,000, 
which would make $19,000 with the commission ; and that is what 
he paid for the property. 

Mr. Rice. Did he pay that in greenbacks ? 
Mr. Caton. Yes, sir ; in cash. 
Mr. Rice. What did he tell you about that? 

Mr. Caton. He didn't comment on that other than he said it was up 
to Mr. Zekosky to do what he wanted to do with it. 

Mr. Rice. He told you to offer him greenbacks. What was the pur- 
pose of that ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, I couldn't very well make that statement. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you to tell Zekosky ? 

Mr. Caton. He didn't tell me to tell him that. I heard him make 
that statement himself to Mr. Zekosky. 

Mr. Rice. What was the statement? 

Mr. Caton. He just told Mr. Zekosky that if it was necessary he 
could pay him in cash. I think, instead of greenbacks, he said "cash." 

Mr. Rice. Was there any question in agreeing on a selling price less 
than what he actually did pay? 

Mr. Caton. No, other than the argument was that Mr. Zekosky had 
told me and Mr. Culbreath both that he had already sold some property 
that year and it would run his income for that year quite high. 

Mr. Rice. From a capital-gain point of view ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, and that he would rather wait until after the first 
of the year to make the deal, and that was when the proposition came 
up to pay in cash. 

Mr. Rice. And he came back and said he would pay in cash ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. Well, he didn't say for what reason. I 
couldn't say. 

Mr. Rice. I take it, the title was searched when there came a time 
for selling it. 

Mr. Caton. Well, there was approximately seven-hundred-and- 
something dollars put up in escrow for the title to be searched, and 
the day that we were to make a date for 

Mr. Rice. Who put that money up, Mr. Caton ? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Culbreath ; that was in a check. 

Mr. Rice. How did he put it up ? 

Mr. Caton. To the best of my recollection, there was another man 
by the name of Zewadski. 

Mr. Rice. He was a lawyer ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir; and he had to get the title and everything 
arranged, and Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ramsure. Mr. Ramsure was a 
man Mr. Johnson was working for, and he handled the transaction. 

Mr. Rice. Who represented you and the sheriff ? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ramsure. 

Mr. Rice. And Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ramsure represented Zekosky ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir; that is right. 

Mr. Rice. And what happened at the settlement when it came time 
to pay for the property, what was the final agreed selling price? 

Mr. Caton. The money to be involved was about $19,000. 

Mr. Rice. That was the selling price? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Was there a contract to that effect ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME; IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 75 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. I took the contract in mine and my wife's 
name. 

Mr. Rice. So that you were the buyer on the contract ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And Zekosky was the seller? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And at the settlement, what happened? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Culbreath was supposed to meet me at Mr. Ram- 
sure's and Johnson's office in St. Petersburg, and my wife and I was 
there on time. It began to look like there wasn't nobody showing up 
and directly a man named Mr. Italiano appeared. 

Mr. Rice. What was his name ? 

Mr. Caton. I didn't know his given name other than I have heard 
him called Red Italiano. 

Mr. Rice. Red Italiano? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. And one of his bookkeepers came into the 
office and said they were there to represent Mr. Culbreath in the 
deal. Well, when it came about like that I told Mr. Johnson that 
in that case, that if he was going to handle it, and they were going 
to take the title in the Anthony Distributors Corp.'s name 

Mr. Rice. They told you that ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. I told them that if that was the case I didn't 
want any further to do with it and Mr. "Red" Italiano assured me 
right across the desk that he was only negotiating in this deal for 
Mr. Culbreath and that he would have no jurisdiction over the prop- 
erty, and so forth, and that I would be solely in charge, rather than 
Mr. Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. Did you know that Mr. Italiano had been in the peni- 
tentiary? 

Mr. Caton. Only what I heard some of the other witnesses say and 
that I read in the newspapers, and what I heard. 

Mr. Rice. What happened ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, it was drawn up. There was already a deed made 
to be transacted. 

Mr. Rice. What was that ? 

Mr. Caton. It was supposedly to go in mine and Mr. Culbreath's 
name, but in the meantime, when they came over to put the deed in 
our names, or whatever it was going to be fixed up, there had to be 
a new deed made up and it took 3 or 4 hours, but anyway it was drawn 
up in the Anthony Distributors Corp. and at that time Mr. Zekosky 
refused to make the change because he said the place was going to be 
improved and fixed up and he wanted me in connection with it. 

Mr. Rice. Zekosky wanted to sell to you only ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes; and after finally they persuaded him and Mr. 
Johnson as long as you are going to operate that way it was better to 
go ahead and carry the deal through, and it was put in that way. Later 
I was just left out. 

Mr. Rice. Who was Anthony Distributors ? 

Mr. Caton. At that time I didn't know, right at the present, but 
later I found out it was a distributing corporation, I think, on Grand 
Central Avenue. 

Mr. Rice. Distributing what ? 

Mr. Caton. Wine, whisky, and beer. 

Mr. Rice. Who was associated with the company ? 



76 ORGANIZE© CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Caton. I don't know other than Mr. Italiano. That was the 
man that was with ns at the time. 

Mr. Rice. I show you a photostat and ask you if you recognize that. 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is it ? It is a deed, is it not ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And that covers the property that you talk about ? 

Mr. Caton. Well, I haven't had time to read it all, but I presume 
that it is what it is. 

Mr. Rice. And that deed is dated what ? 

Mr. Caton. It was in 1946. 

Mr. Rice. In July 1946 ? 

Mr. Caton. I don't remember the exact day of the month, but I know 
it was in 1946 when the deed was taken. 

Mr. Rice. Is not that the deed that you executed that day, or was 
executed that day ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Senator Hunt. Let me suggest that the witness take the time to 
first peruse that and look at it so that you can answer that question 
"Yes" or "No," because I think that is an important question. 

(The witness complied.) 

Mr. Caton. Yes; that is the lot numbers and everything. 

Mr. Rice. Who did that deed run from, who sells and who buys on ' 
that? 

Mr. Caton. You are talking about this year ? This is Zekosky right 
here. I am not very well educated. 

Mr. Rice. Yes; it runs from Leopold Zekosky and wife, Helen, to 
Anthony Distributors? 

Mr. Caton. Yes sir. 

Mr. Rice. And is dated the 6th of July 1946 ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. We will offer that. 

Mr. Caton. Yes ; I will say that is the deed. 

Senator Hunt. The exhibit will be received for the record, desig- 
nated exhibit for Rice. 

(Thereupon, the exhibit was received in evidence, identified as 
exhibit No. 5, and appears in the appendix on p. 484.) 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, did you see any money passed that day? 

Mr. Caton. No, sir; I was not right present at the time it was 
passed, but I do know that it was paid according to what they told 
me. | 

Mr. Rice. What did they tell you ? 

Mr. Caton. They told me the deal was all settled and we could 
go ahead. 

Mr. Rice. Who produced the check or the money ? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Italiano, he is the one that brought the deeds and 
things away, and so I presume he is the one that put up the money. 

Mr. Rice. Italiano told you it was all settled? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rick. What happened next? Did you go into the business? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. I was kind of running in there on a shoestring 
proposition waiting the final agreement on Mr. Culbreath's and my 
part of it, and one time in there he gave me approximately $350 to 
get started for lights, water, and salaries of the men that were work- 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 77 

ing there, and so forth; and it dragged along about 6 months and 
finally Mr. Culbreath went on a vacation and I called him up the 
day before he went and told him — I was financially up to where I 
would have to have some money to carry the property on; and he 
told me he didn't have any money at all to carry it on until he got 
back, which would be about 3 weeks; he was going to see his son, 
and he said to go ahead and carry the proposition on until he got back; 
which I did. In the meantime, a man came along and said that there 
was $90 due on the rent and I had to put up that, and when Mr. 
Culbreath finally got back — and I had put quite a good deal of money 
in it and my time, and when I approached him again he told me that 
he didn't have any further contact with it, that I would have to deal 
with Mr. Italiano if I wanted to deal with the fish house airy more. 
I saw Mr. Italiano, and he said he couldn't give me any word for 
a few days. I went back in a few days, like he told me to, and at 
this time he told me that he could not put any more money in the 
place. I explained to Mr. Italiano that I had put a good deal of 
money in the place and Mr. Culbreath had, and I wasn't able to lose 
my part of it because I was a workingman and making a living by 
working. Mr. Italiano gave me $300 and I signed the check and 
he cashed it right then. He said he would help me out on it that 
much. I went back to Pass-A-Grille and did away with what I could 
of the bills, and so forth, and paid them up and left the place and 
returned Mr. Culbreath's boat back to him here in Tampa at my 
expense. 

Mr. Rice. During the time that you were running the place, after 
the sale was transacted, who was paying for the materials and pur- 
chases that you were making? 

Mr. Caton. AVelh.we were supposedly operating it together, but I 
put in quite a bit of money myself, these bills here — I did buy and 
sell some fish and we did take in some money. There was some 
profit in it, but it was not enough to take care of the whole business. 

Mr. Rice. What are those bills? 

Mr. Catox. Those are gasoline and oil bills that was bought and 
sold to the fishermen, the boats used gas and oil ;. there was a pump 
there. Originally, Mr. Culbreath made arrangements, I understood, 
with the Standard Oil man, said that he had made arrangements for 
credit. 

Mr. Rice. Who had made arrangements for credit? 

Mr. Caton. Mr. Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. And these bills go to Mr. Culbreath ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And they are for gas, oil, lumber, and material ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Were they paid by Mr. Culbreath? 

Mr. Catox. No ; I paid these bills myself with the money that he 
gave me. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

Mr. Catox. And then we later paid— from the beginning— these 
are some of the first bills— later it was put in the name of the Pass-A- 
Grille Fish Co. and it was operated from that on until I left it, be- 
cause I couldn't carry it on and I didn't have any money, and the 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 6 



78 ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

agreement was just dropped as far as my side was concerned and I was 
left out in the cold. 

Mr. Rice. I show you some tax bills and ask you if you know what 
they are. 

Mr. Caton. Well, these bills are duplicates. After Mr. Culbreath 
told me that he didn't have any further arrangement, I was interested 
enough that I looked it up to see who was paying the taxes on the 
property. 

Mr. Rice. He told you that he was no longer interested in the 
property ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And you did not believe it? 

Mr. Caton. No, sir ; I didn't believe it. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do ? 

Mr. Caton. Just like anyone else. If you didn't believe a thing, 
you want to satisfy your own mind about it and that is what I did. 

Mr. Rice. What did you find ? 

Mr. Caton. I found that he paid the taxes. 

Mr. Rice. What is the date that you found he was paying the taxes ? 

Mr. Caton. It is dated there in 1947, he paid them in 1947. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know who has paid the taxes since then? 

Mr. Caton. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Rice. At any event, he was paying the taxes, according to the 
record as you found it, after he told you that he was no longer inter- 
ested in the property? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you feel that you were double-crossed? 

Mr. Caton. Well, I wouldn't exactly say I was double-crossed. I 
just more or less bit off something that the other man didn't hold up to 
his agreement, is all. I figured a man's word was as good as his bond. 
He didn't hold up to what he agreed to do. I thought a man in his 
position, that he was in, being the sheriff, of his standing, being the 
sheriff of the county, I could take his word for it. 

Mr. Rice. Since you have been out of the proposition, do you know 
who is paying the rent there now and to whom? 

Mr. Caton. Well, I understood the last that was being paid on it 
was, of the big fishhouse, was Del Peacock was paying it, and one of 
the boys told me that he was paying the rent to Mr. Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. He is still paying the rent to Mr. Culbreath ? 

Mr. Caton. He didn't show me any papers to that effect, but he 
told me that in plain English, that he was paying it to Mr. Culbreath. 
for turtles that were being shipped in. 

Mr. Rice. What became of Italiano and Anthony Distributors? 

Mr. Caton. I don't know. I never saw him anymore after the day 
he gave me the money, what he offered to help me out on, what I had 
put in it, to offset some of the money that I had put in. I have never 
called on him since. 

Mr. Rice. Would it be a fair summation to say that this was the 
proposition: That the sheriff sent you there to buy the property with 
his money and you contracted to put it in your own name, to operate 
on a 50-50 basis with him, and after that, there was a switch to Itali- 
ano and Anthony Distributors took title? 

Mr. Caton. Yes ; that is right. 



■ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 79 

l r . Sice. After that Anthony Distributors and Italiano disap- 
peared and Sheriff Culbreath came back into the picture and you 
were out? 

Mr. Caton. I went to Sheriff Culbreath, as I said a while ago, to 
make it plain, and he told me that he had no longer anything to do with 
it and that I would have to contact Red Italiano. so I contacted Red 
Italiano and he told me — I wanted to carry the business on — and he 
said he couldn't do anything for the next few days and he would let 
me know, so that is when I went back and he let me know, and that is 
when he gave me $300 and said he didn't want any further to do with 

Mr. Rice. What do you estimate your net loss, in addition to the 
time consumed, in money ? 

Mr. Caton. At the time I had it pretty well figured out. Of course, 
the stuff has been juggled around now. I had the exact figures. The 
place was in the hole with my money, around $650, and he gave me 
$300. and I had put 6 months of my time and gas and oil that I paid 
for myself over there, in there. 

Mr. Rice. During the time you were going a round with Sheriff 
Culbreath, looking at the property, did he point out other parcels of 
land and buildings which he said he owned? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where were those? 

Mr. Caton. Two locations in Pass-a-Grille. 

Mr. Rice. Where were they ? 

Mr. Caton. One on the same side of the street between there and 
what we call the downtown part of Pass-A-Grille. 

Mr. Rice. That is a large lot opposite Washington Park? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And another lot you say ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. It was somewhere down behind what we call the 
post office in the downtown part of town. He said he owned that. 
He drove me clown there for no reason whatsoever and pointed out 
the property to me and said he owned it. I didn't ask him to do it. 

Mr. Rice. That was a vacant lot, unimproved property ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. In a good, respectable neighborhood ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. Was there another property along the Gandy Bridge i 

Mr. Caton. Yes. We negotiated a long time putting in a little 
place on Gandy Bridge that belonged to the State and Mr. Culbreath 
told me that he owned a piece of that property on the left-hand side 
of the bridge. 

Mr. Rice. On the south side of the bridge ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes, the south side of the bridge going to St. Peters- 
burg, at this end. , 

Mr. Rice. Is that on the south side of the Tampa end ot Gandy 

Bridge? 
Mr. Caton. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. I think we will offer the tax bills and these other papers 

as one exhibit. . . . . l , .._, 

Senator Hunt. The exhibits will be received and designated L-' 

hibit No. 6." 



80 OIRGAMZEID CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

(Thereupon, the exhibits were received in evidence and designated 
"Exhibit No. 6," and are on file with the committee.) 

Senator Hunt. Yon are appearing here in response to a subpena 
that you received ? 

Mr. Caton. Yes. 

Senator Hunt. I think we will excuse you for the moment. 

Mr. Caton. O. K. 

Senator H:;nt. The committee will stand in recess until 1:30 
o'clock this afternoon. 

(Thereupon, the committee recessed until 1:30 p. m., the same 
day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(The committee reconvened at 1 : 30 p. m., pursuant to the taking of 
the noon recess. ) 

Senator Hunt. The chairman wishes to read into the record a letter 
dated December 27, addressed to the United States Senate Committee 
on Interstate Crime, Tampa, Fla. : 

Gentlemen : On Saturday, December 23, 1950, I was served with a subpena 
by the United States marshal's office to be and appear before your committee in 
Tampa, December 30, 1950, at 9 : 30 a. m. 

On the afternoon of December 23, I had a severe attack of hemorrhoids which 
became strangulated and caused me to hemorrhage. I was confined to my bed 
at home Saturday and Sunday. December 23 and 24, and underwent treatment 
to alleviate my condition. However, on Monday. December 25, I was ordered by 
my physician to report to the hospital and undergo surgery, and on Tuesday, 
December 26, my surgeon performed a surgical operation to correct my condition. 
I do not know if I will be discharged from the hospital and physically able to- 
attend your committee hearing on December 30 as ordered. In the event I cannot 
be there on said date I will be available at the hospital where you may, if you 
wish, question and interrogate me. You may contact my surgeon to substantiate 
the matters related herein. His name is Dr. Thomas Nelson, proctologist, Citizens* 
Building, Tampa, Fla. 

With very best wishes, I am, 
Very truly yours, 

Manuel M. Garcia. 

Now, for the record, we are having the United States Public Health 
Service check on the correctness or authenticity of this letter. 

The first witness this afternoon is Chief of Police M. C. Beasley, of 
the city of Tampa. 

TESTIMONY OF M. C. BEASLEY, CHIEF OF POLICE, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Beasley. I do. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Beasley, how long have you been chief of police in 
Tampa ? 

Mr. Beasley. Since August 1, of this year. 

Mr. Rice. Were you associated with the police department prior to- 
this time? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. For how long ? 

Mr. Beasley. I went to work with the police department 25 years- 
aero. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 81 

Mr. Rice. And you have been with the Tampa Police Department 
since that time ? 

Mr. Beasley. With the exception of 1942, I went into the service, 
and I returned in 1946. 

Mr. Rice. You returned to the department in 1946 ? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You are appearing here in response to subpena to pro- 
duce certain records? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have those with you ? 

Mr. Beasley. I have as many as I can produce ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. We would like at this time to go into those. Kindly 
make those available to the staff. 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I will ask you if you have the file on the killing of Angelo 
Lazzara, who was a filling station owner and undercover agent for 
the fire department and killed early in the morning of July 26, 1931, 
while driving south on Twenty-ninth Street, 10 minutes after leaving 
a gambling establishment. Two loads of buckshot were fired from 
a sedan which struck him in the face. Officers said he knew too much 
and no one was arrested. 

Mr. Beasley. I do not have the Lazarra record. I do have records 
■from 1932 up to this date. 

Mr. Rice. I see. Well, we appreciate the fact that some of this is 
going back quite a few years, but in view of the history that has 
developed we thought we would like to explore. 

Mr. Beasley. There have been many changes in the department, 
been many change-overs. 

Mr. Rice. Now, going back to 1932, Mrs. Fernando Serrano was 
killed in a parked car at 10 o'clock on the night of January 10, on 
[Fifteenth Street, near Eleventh Avenue, by a buckshot blast evidently 
intended for her husband, fired from a moving car. There was no 
arrest in that case. 

Now, then, do you have the record of Armando Valdez, wholesale 
produce dealer, who was shot to death by two masked gunmen in his 
home at 2706 Emore Street, on September 26, 1932? The widow 
identified Mario Zerrate as one of the gunmen, and he was convicted 
on that identification and sent to prison for life. The officers said 
that Mario was a brother of George "Saturday" Zerrate, a gambling 
racket figure who was wounded in an assassination attempt the 
following year. 

Mr. Beasley. I have no Valdez record. 

Mr. Rice. There is no record available on Valdez, the Valdez 
tailing ? 

Mr. Beasley. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have you searched the files or caused them to be searched ? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir; I have searched them myself and caused 
them to be searched. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know of any reason why the files are unavailable. 

Mr. Beasley. Before the FBI came into our system and set up 
a file system, the files were kept more or less loosely and some of them 
became lost. I know there were files made of the Valdez murder, of 
my own knowledge, but I have been unable to find them. I haven't 



82 ORGANIZE© CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

seen it since I returned from the service, when I came back to the- 
department. 

Mr. Eice. All right. Now, how about Gus Perez, Ybor City furni- 
ture dealer, who was murdered with shotguns as he drove along 
Fifteenth Street, near Buffalo Avenue on the morning of July 24,. 
1986? *, y ' 

Mr. Beasley. This is it. That is all we have on that. 

Mr. Rice. This file seems to consist of 

Mr. Beasley. The original report. 

Mr. Rice. That is it. 

Mr. Beasley. There was much more filed than that, made on that, 
because I remember witnesses were questioned and their statements, 
were turned in, and what has become of it, I don't remember. 

Senator Hunt. Before going to the next case, what was the dis- 
position of the Valdez case? 

Mr. Rice. There was no arrests made, according to our research. 

Mr. Rice. Next, we have the murder of Frankie Carrero, whose 
body was found riddled with buckshot on salt water flats a mile south 
of the Twenty-second Street Causeway in October of 19?>6. He was 
a former New York taxicab driver and frequented gambling houses. 
Tli ere were no arrests. 

Mr. Beasley. He was found where? 

Mr. Rice. He was found on the water flats a mile south of the.' 
Twenty-second Street Causeway. He may have been in the county. 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir; that was a county case, we wouldn't have 
had it, 

Mr. Rice. In a county case, we take it that the sheriff's office takes 
the lead in investigations? 

Mr. Beasley. The sheriff's office takes the lead at anytime he wishes 
to, city or county. In an investigation he is termed the leading law- 
enforcement officer of the city and county. The fact is that he can 
come in and take over a case and assist in or out of the city. If it is in 
the city and he doesn't make an appearance we take the initiative. 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of police practice in your outfit today, sup- 
pose the murder occurred in the county just over the city lines. Don't 
you think it would be good police practice to have a file on the details 
of that in the event it was perpetrated by someone who would be within 
your jurisdiction? 

Mr. Beasley. Well, in making up a file it would be duplication of 
work. We depend on the sheriff's files in murder cases where they are 
committed in the county. 

Mr. Rice. Now, the next one we have is George "Saturday" Zerrate,, 
who was shot on Eighth Avenue and Fourteenth Street, on the night 
of November 10, 1936, by two gunmen in a car, firing sawed-off shot- 
guns. He was also shot at in his home in the 2100 block of Nebraska 
Avenue. He was later arrested in New York as a suspect in dope 
trafficking with Charles "Lucky" Luciano. There was no conviction. 
Further in 1920, Zerrate was known as the lieutenant of Ralph Rana,. 
one of the big three gambler* here. When he was 'arrested in New 
York in 1948, on a drug charge, he was said to have been trying to 
muzzle in on the dope racket of Jack Gordon, Col. Garland Williams,, 
the New York narcotic chief, and both Gordon and Zerrate were sup- 
posed to obtain their drugs off the boat of Lucky Luciano. 



ORGAMZE.D CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 83 

Mr. Beasley. I have looked for the Zerrate file and I haven't found 
it. However, I remember that I was on that case when they reported 
the shooting at his house. That was a fake report, and it was deter- 
mined that he pulled that as a fake, and tried to make a laughing 
stock of the officers who investigated the case. 

Mr. Rice. Well, there is no question but what he is dead now, is 
there ? 

Mr. Beasley. Saturday Zerrate? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Beasley. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Let me ask you this : On a killing there isn't any statute 
limitations, is there? 

Mr. Beasley. No, no. 

Mr. Rice. Well, does there come a time when the police department 
stops investigating a killing ? 

Mr. Beasley. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. So that you do keep after the perpetrator of the crime? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, if you have no files what do the police officers 
who get some information on the killing do ? 

Mr. Beasley. Well, let me correct an impression you have gotten 
evidently that I didn't say that we didn't make files. I said that they 
had become lost. 

Mr. Rice. I see. Well, having been lost, you are in a position where, 
if an officer does obtain information he has really no place to check 
where he would get a written report, he would have to start and ask 
around if he doesn't know the personal details of the killing ? 

Mr. Beasley. And as a rule in the shooting cases where there have 
been murders and the witnesses have been carried to the State attor- 
ney's office, he does have a. file there revealing the witnesses' names and 
what their statements are. 

Mr. Rice. Well, actually, what do you think happened to these files? 
Do you think they were stolen ? 

Mr. Beasley. No, sir; I don't know. It was a loose way the files 
were handled during the course of the years. I went into the detective 
bureau in 1936, the latter part of 1936, then I went into the department 
called the auto theft bureau which was in existence at that time, and 
then later went into the detective bureau. 

Mr. Rice. Well, were not, or are not the files kept in a secure, safe 
place or locked ? 

Mr. Beasley. They are kept in file eases in the chief of detective's 
office. 

Mr. Rice. Is that accessible to the general public ? 

Mr. Beasley. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. The only people that have access to that, then, are police 
officers ? 

Mr. Beasley. Police officers and detectives. The only way they 
could have been taken out of the files was by those who were handling 
them. 

Mr. Rice. It is a fair assumption, then that if the files were removed 
or stolen that it was a police officer that did it. 

Mr. Beasley. Not necessarily ; no, sir. For a while there the detec- 
tive office was closed, there wasn't anybody in there, they could have 



84 ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

been stolen at that time — they could have been stolen by somebody 
when they wasn't looking. I don't know how they were gotten 
out of there. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever file on Angelo Greco, the produce dealer, 
who was wounded by three shotgun blasts from a moving car on the 
night of December 21, 1936, as he was driving on Thirty-second Street 
near Lake Avenue ? 

Mr. Beasley. From what we can determine the police investigation 
revealed nothing. 

Mr. Rice. The files have eluded us just as the killers have? 

Mr. Beasley. They must have; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Eddie Verellio, a gambling-house proprietor and lieute- 
nant of Charlie Wall and Tito Rubio murdered on the morning of 
January 21, 1937, near his home at 2713 Morgan Street. No arrest. 
One source claimed the Mafia, another source claimed Verellio was 
knocking down on the Lincoln Club which was then operated by 
Charlie Wall. Verellio operated Tito and Eddie's place, a gambling 
house, along with Tito Rubio, also later killed. Have you the file on 
that? 

Mr. Beasley. Eddie Verellio's file. 

Mr. Rice. The file seems to consist of photographs of the death car 
and the victim and several letters. 

Mr. Beasley. That was what I could find from my search. 

Mr. Rice. Now here is an interesting murder, that of Joe Vaglichi, 
alias Joe Vaglichio, who was murdered early in the morning of July 
29, 1937, at his sandwich stand on Nebraska Avenue by four shotgun 
blasts fired from a passing car. There were no arrests, but investigat- 
ing officers believe that at the time Vaglichi was a killer in the pay of 
the Mafia for jobs in New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland. 
Reports had it that Vaglichi had a brother in the Chicago rackets who 
had been a bodyguard for Al Capone. Vaglichi himself was arrested 
in Cleveland by the police department there on December 26, 1928, 
with 23 other Italian gangsters at the Hotel Statler, after there was a 
report of a meeting there of the Mafia. Among that group they found 
13 revolvers. 

Chief Beasley. I have a record of that. 

Mr. Rice. Thus far, Chief Beasley, we fail to find anything in the 
files which indicates police activity. Here we have the newspaper 
report of the murder, the death, and criminal record of Vaglichi and 
a statement about the killing, but you note there are no investigator's 
report indicating who the suspects were or what leads were pursued 
or what activity took place. 

Mr. Beasley. I am not going to try to justify those records by any 
statement because I did not have charge of the records and there was 
a possibility 

Mr. Rice. We understand that. We are not trying to pin you but 
as a matter of police policy 

Mr. Beasley. Like I told you, the files were loosely kept until the 
FBI gave us instructions on how to keep the files. 

Mr. Rice. The next one we have is the murder of Tito Rubio, part- 
ner of Eddie Verellio, who was killed on January 21, 1937. Rubio 
was killed by three gunmen by three shotgun blasts as he entered the 
kitchen door of his home at 413 East Gladys Street, early in the morn- 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 85 

ing of March 19, 1938. The murder occurred during a grand jury 
session and was reported to be timed so as to put the heat on the fact 
that there were gambling collections and it was reported that this 
murder was also inspired by the Mafia or perpetrated as the result 
that Mafia had access to the records. 

Now, then, do you have any files on the attempts on the life of 
Charles Wall, the witness we had this morning? 

Mr. Beasley. There were two files. Those are the two files I have. 

Mr. Rice. Averaging 66% on this one. 

Henry Hull, a reported collector for a Lakeland gambling house 
whose bullet-riddled body was fished out of the Hillsborough River in 
October 1939. 

Mr. Beasley. I don't remember that case being handled by the city. 

Mr. Rice. Possibly by the county. You have no file, have you? 

Ignacio Antinori. killed by a masked gunman in a suburban tavern 
in October of 1940 while in the company of Jimmy Valrigio, alias 
Jimmy Gagin. We understand the murder gun was traced to New 
Orleans where it was purchased by a man who gave the phony name 
of John Adams to a Sears, Roebuck store there. The weapon was 
purchased October 7, 1939, and it was interesting to note that was 
just 11 days before Mario Perla was killed. Antinori was then the 
kingpin of Tampa gambling, but w T as reported being pushed out by 
the syndicate in 1937. Antinori is the father of Paul and Joe Anti- 
nori. who have been involved in narcotic activities. 

Well, let me start, coming down to date. Jimmie Velasco, who was 
a gambling syndicate leader, was killed by revolver shots as he left a 
bolita collection point December 12, 1948, with his wife and daughter. 
I believe that Joe Provenzano was tried for that crime, but was not 
convicted ? 

Mr. Beasley. That is true. 

Mr. Rice. Is the investigation of Velasco active at the moment? 

Mr. Beasley. It is still active; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Will you tell us something that the police are doing in 
an effort to locate the killers ? 

Mr. Beasley. They are still trying to get information out there in 
Ybor City where it happened, from different ones who knew the dif- 
ferent families. We take it for granted that he was killed in the 
gambling racket. We are still questioning people — wherever Ave can 
get some lead or some information we run it down. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Jimmie Lumia, who seems to have arisen 
to gambling power after the murder of Velasco, was killed w T ith a 
shotgun blast by two gunmen in a car that followed him on Nine- 
teenth Street south of Adamo Drive. That occurred, I believe, June 
5, 1950. 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have there been any arrests in connection with the Lumia 
shooting? 

Mr. Beasley. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. That investigation is also active ? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Would you want to tell the committee whether you be- 
lieve there is a possible chance of solving that any time soon? 



86 ORGANIZE© CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Beasley. I don't know. In each one of these murders it seems 
that the people have — that whenever you appear on the scene of the 
shooting, anybody that has seen it, even the people that Lumia was 
talking to in the truck hesitated about telling us, the one that the 
deputy sheriff ran down, he hesitated to talk about it ; and one of them 
even went home from the hospital before appearing at the station. It 
seems to be that even, in the case of a robbery, that there is an effort 
in a certain element of the Latin people when these killings occur, 
that they hesitate and refuse to identify anybody. 

Mr. Rice. What cause do you give for that? Fear, more or less? 

Mr. Beasley. Shotgun shootings. They are afraid themselves of 
retaliations. 

Mr. Rice. Not in retaliation for testifying to the truth? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. There is one robbery that we went on not 
too long ago, the Gradiaz-Annia Cigar Co. 

Mr. Rice. What? 

Mr. Beasley. The Gradiaz-Annia Cigar Co. We went out there and 
we got witnesses that saw the car, saw the man use the stepladder to 
go into the window and effect a robbery of approximately $25,000. 
We found those witnesses, and a news reporter followed right behind 
the investigating officers and got the names and addresses of these wit- 
nesses and published them in the paper, and we couldn't get either 
one of those witnesses the next day, or, rather, that same evening, to 
say anything about that robbery. One of them told me that they 
got a telephone call that if they wanted to live and be happy they 
wouldn't know anything about the robbery. That lady worked for 
"Gradiaz-Annia and she later disappeared. She disappeared of her 
own accord, because she borrowed some money here from a finance 
•company. 

Mr. Rice. Do you believe there is a Mafia or syndicate? 

Mr. Beasley. I absolutely do; yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you believe — you do ? 

Mr. Beasley. I believe it does exist. 

Mr. Rice. Would you like to tell us what your concept of the Mafia 
is and its effect on these murders and witnesses ? 

Mr. Beasley. My concept of the Mafia is that — well, I believe it 
consists of Italian people who have come from the southern part of 
Italy, Sicily — I believe they are known as Sicilians — that have immi- 
grated into this country through the immigration channels in the 
early part of Mussolini's regime. There were criminal bands, as I 
have read the history of it, running wild and rampant over Italy 
and Sicily especially, that came over here and, as a result, we have 
the Al Capones and other different people that organize into a crime 
syndicate. I believe that those people got themselves into this crime 
syndicate through a lot of political influence, higher than I am and 
higher than — I think I would be small fry to the contacts that they 
have. 

Mr. Rice. From your investigation of these various murders, do 
you feel that any of those were perpetrated as a direct result of a 
Mafia order? 

Mr. Beasley. I can only assume that it was, because of the cir- 
cumstances that surrounded each one of them. I have not had the 
direct testimony that we could convict in court on. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 87 

Mr Rice. We appreciate that. We did not ask, would not ask you 
for an opinion on something like that. As to the actual trigger man, 
the gunman, in some of these killings, do you feel that they are local 
members of the Mafia, or that they are imported gunmen i 

Mr Beasley. I always judged that they were imported, because 
thev had far-reaching activities, just like you show m your chart 
there and they have— it would be foolish for one of them who is well 
known in the city of Tampa to go out on the street, even in the day 
or nio-ht, and perpetrate a shooting there. Then there has been 
evidence that vou will find in these records that will trace some of 
the actual implements of death, trace it back to different cities out ot 

Tampa. . , 

Mr Rice. Suppose vou find in tracing, say, a murder weapon to 
New Orleans or any other city, for that matter, that the investigation 
should take you to that other city to follow out the crime, what do 
you do then ? 

Mr. Beasley. We don't have any fund to carry us anywhere. 1 
have a $200 a year travel fund. 

Mr. Rice. So, to all intents and purposes, you are stopped at the 
city line ? 

Mr. Beasley. Actually at the city line ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What happens over the city line is beyond — — 

Mr. Beasley. Unless I am asked by the county officials to par- 
ticipate in an investigation; and, of course, we do that as a matter 
•of cooperation. 

Senator Hunt. A couple of minutes ago in your testimony you 
made a reference to the influence the leaders of the Mafia have because 
of political influence on a higher level than your own. Would you 
•designate what level and whom you have reference to ? 

Mr. Beasley. Well, I don't have any reference to any particular 
level, sir. It is all along the line, in my opinion, more or less. 

Senator Hunt. Well, spell them out, if you will ; name them. What 
levels do you have in mind ? 

Mr. Beasley. Well, maybe it is not the Mafia influence so much 
as it is the gamblers, we will say, because I can't say that the Mafia 
has direct influence on any politician. 

Senator Hunt. Then your inference is that the gamblers have? 

Mr. Beasley. That the gamblers have : yes. 

Senator Hunt. Will you tell on what level and who those politicians 
are? 

Mr. Beasley. I will say this : That during the regime of a governor, 
that this governor engineered and got into a legal status the slot 
machines in Florida, which was one of the worst curses we ever had 
in this State, in my opinion. 

Senator Hunt. 'What year did that action take place? 

Mr. Beasley. During Governor Sholtz' regime. 

Senator Hunt. You speak of witnesses refusing to talk. What 
action did you take to get those witnesses into court and in the witness 
chair and refuse to answer questions ? 

Mr. Beasley. We have had them before the grand jury, sir. 

Senator Hunt. And after they refused to answer, the grand jury 
made no recommendation ? 



88 ORGANIZE© CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Beasley. They didn't get up and refuse to answer the questions; 
to the grand jury. They just said, "I don't know. I didn't see it,' r 
and we know that they did. 

Senator Hunt. What official body is this that allows you only $200' 
traveling expenses a year ? 

Mr. Beasley. That is the budget, the city budget, that is made up 
by the city. 

Senator Hunt. Who is the budget officer accountable to? 

Mr. Beasley. To the comptroller of the city. 

Senator Hunt. Who is the comptroller accountable to ? 

Mr. Beasley. To the representatives of the city. 

Senator Hunt. What are the representatives of the city ? Are they 
elected aldermen, councilmen ? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir ; they are elected aldermen. The mayor and! 
the board of representatives has the final passage on the budget. 

Senator Hunt. Are you appointed or elected ? 

Mr. Beasley. I am appointed by the mayor. 

Senator Hunt. By the mayor ? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. We would like to have an opportunity to review the rec- 
ords a little and to recall Chief Beasley later on if we continue on an< 
adjourned status. It would be appreciated. 

Mr. Beasley. All right. 

Mr. Rice. We will excuse you for the moment. Do you have other- 
files there ? 

Mr. Beasley. There are files here that you might look over. 

Mr. Rice. Yes ; we will take those. 

Senator Hunt. One other question. The $200 traveling allowance,. 
is that personal or is that for your department ? 

Mr. Beasley. That is a personal traveling allowance. This is a 
robbery file. You might get some interesting information from that. 

Mr. Rice. Thank you. We will try to take care of them. 

Senator Hunt. A couple of more questions. 

Who are you directly accountable to ? 

Mr. Beasley. The mayor. 

_ Senator Hunt. What is the mayor's reaction when killings of this- 
kind take place in the city ? 

Mr. Beasley. The mayor calls the chief of detectives up and calls 
the chief of police up there and finds out what course of action we 
have taken, what we have done and if we have gone to the extent of 
our ability and of our means. If we haven't, then he tells us that we- 
must, we've got to. I am certain he doesn't condone anything that, 
leads up to these killings any more than the ministerial association, 
does. 

Senator Hunt. Is your office and the sheriff's office in the same- 
building ? 

Mr. Beasley. No, sir. 

Senator Hunt. How far apart are they ? 

Mr. Beasley. Across the street, say a block apart. The city hall is- 
across the street from the courthouse, and then the police station is an 
annex to the city hall, back of it on the Jackson Street side, which 
makes it about a block apart. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 89 

Senator Hu\t. You and the sheriff work in harmony, do you, to- 
gether? You cooperate on all matters that come under your joint 
jurisdiction? 

Mr. Beasley. Yes, sir; our offices do. The sheriff came over and 
congratulated me about a week after I "was appointed chief of police. 
That is the only time that I have been with him alone ..t any time. I 
was at a tarpon fishing tournament dinner, a fish dinner, and he was 
out there. I wasn't alone. I talked to him a little out there in the 
presence of other peoj^le. I saw him on the street, I believe, yesterday 
morning, and he said, "Hello, Chief," and I said, "Hello Sheriff," 
.and passed the time of day, and that was all. 

Senator Hunt. That is all, if you will hold yourself available. 

Mr. Beasley. At my office, sir ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Senator Hunt. Yes, sir. 

(Witness excused.) 

Senator Hunt. Oswald C. Tracey. Mr. Oswald C. Tracey, please 
-come to the witness stand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony 
you will give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Tracey. 1 do. 

TESTIMONY OF OSWALD C. TRACEY, ST. PETERSBURG, FLA. 

Mr. Rice. Will you state your name, address and occupation ? 

Mr. Tracey. Oswald C. Tracey, St. Petersburg, Fla., real estate 
broker. 

Mr. Rice. Licensed real estate broker? 

Mr. Tracey. Licensed real estate broker. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you are appearing here, Mr. Tracey, in response 
to a subpena duces tecum to bring certain records ? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes, right here. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have those with you ? 

Mr. Tracey. What few records I have left, I have them with me 
here. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Well, we will go into them at the proper time. 

You are familiar with an individual named John Torrio? 

Mr. Tracey. I am. 

Mr. Rice. Will you tell the committee what your dealings with 
John Torrio have been, starting with the beginning. 

Mr. Tracey. I met Mr. Torrio through some real estate people who 
are also licensed. He came itno the office inquiring about a certain 
Lido Beach. Mrs. Tracey at that time did not know who he was and 
did not learn of his identity probably for several weeks afterward. 
He questioned her about the operation of property, surrounding prop- 
erties, values and so on. It seems that Mr. Torrio owned a mortgage 
on this Lido Beach and he was getting ready to foreclose and later, 
I believe, Mrs. Tracey was subpenaed and testified as to value of sur- 
rounding property and the management possibly. 

Mr. Rice. When was that, Mr. Tracey, what year? 

Mr. Tracey. It could have been in— the latter part of '43 or the 
earlv part of "44, or it could have been the late part of '44. 

Mr. Rice. 1943 or 1944? 

Mr. Tracey. That's risfht. 



90 ORGANIZE© CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Mr. Rice. In connection with that mortgage, was the mortgage 
foreclosed? Was that property sold through your office? 

Mr. Tracey. No, sir. We had nothing to do with the foreclosure. 
Mrs. Tracey was subpenaed to testify in the foreclosure. 

Mr. Eice. Who was the individual involved with Torrio? 

Mr. Tracey. Patsy Sergi, I don't know what his given name is. I 
am under the impression it is Pasquale. 

Mr. Rice. When did you come to know the real identity of Torrio? 

Mr. Tracey. Well, I think Mrs. Tracey came home giggling one 
night and said she had Mr. Torrio in the office, and I don't remember 
when I first knew about it. She later told me that he was interested 
in buying some property and of course I contacted him. 

Mr. Rice. Who did she say he was? 

Mr. Tracey. She told me at that time that he was John Torrio. 

Mr. Rice. Who is John Torrio? 

Mr. Tracey. Well, at that time it didn't mean too much to me but 
since it has. I wouldn't recognize the name she told me. Someone 
recognized Mr. Torrio and told Mrs. Tracey who he was. 

Mr. Rice. Who did they say he was ? 

Mr. Tracey. Well, John Torrio, that's all, just John Torrio. They 
intimated that he had been a gangster, something of that kind, but I 
wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Well, where did they say he was a gangster? 

Mr. Tracey. Well, I am just testifying to hearsay here and calling 
on my memory for 7 years back, and I wouldn't particularly be able 
to go back. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you been around this area, Mr. Tracey? 

Mr. Tracey. Since 1937. 

Mr. Rice. Wasn't there some publicity around that time about 
Torrio's real estate deal ? 

Mr. Tracey. Not that I recall in '37. The only thing that I recall 
of Mr. Torrio or ever knowing about Mr. Torrio was the fact that he 
owned the mortgage on Lido Beach. I presume that I have known 
that for a period of 15 years. 

Mr. Rice. Reading from a clipping in one of the St. Petersburg 
papers about revelations on Torrio's real estate deals it says of Torrio, 
"He was said to be the man behind Mano, Inc., of White Plains." 
Other county records show Torrio was involved in many real estate 
transactions. One deal involved property situated on the north side 
of Eleventh Street and Central Avenue. The names of Julius Maretz 
and Belle Maretz appeared in some of the transactions, as did the 
name of John Patton. Most of the deals listed were in 1925 and '26. 
Do you know who John Patton is? Have you ever met him? 

Mr. Tracey. I do not. 

Mr. Rice. New Jersey and New York City detectives want to inter- 
rogate Torrio about the Dutch Schultz claim, and the fatal wounding 
of three of the hitter's aides in Newark last week. Torrio was also- 
connected with Guzik and Al Capone on the tax records here. Did 
that information come to your attention? 

Mr. Tracey. Just from hearsay, that Al Capone owned property at 
one time on St. Petersburg beach. 

Mr. Rice. Now, I show you two clippings, from papers which are 
dated December 14, '43, and June '43. These refer to the case about 
which you have spoken. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 91 

Mr. Tracey. That one certainly is. 

Mr. Rice. This is the case where yon previously testified. Read 
the first paragraph of that. Read it out loud. 

Mr. Tracey. I imagine this is the one she testified in. That's the 
only one I know of that Mr. Torrio filed against Patsy Surgi. 

Mr. Rice. Well, read the first paragraph of that. 

Mr. Tracey (reading) : 

Beach mortgage aired again. Johnny Torrio, frequently referred to as the 
brains of the former Al Capone gang, yesterday sat through another all-day 
session of circuit court. 

Mr. Rice. That was the same session ? 

Mr. Tracey. That was the same mortgage. 

Mr. Rice. Now, there came a time when you sold a piece of prop- 
erty for Torrio, tell us about that. 

Mr. Tracey. Well, I bought that piece of property for Mr. Torrio. 

Mr. Rice. You bought it for him originally? 

Mr. Tracey. I bought it for him originally. That was dated 
December 21, 1944. It was water lot opposite park D, left north gate 
6 feet, of Phillips Subdivision, Pass-A-Grille, Fla., with all riparian 
rights thereto, incident and appertaining to said lot D, being other- 
wise described as Washington Park. 

Mr. Rice (interrupting). Well, we are not interested in that legal 
description. That was a piece of property opposite Washington Park 
in Pass-A-Grille? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did Torrio tell you when he bought that property?. 
What did he want it for ? 

Mr. Tracey. Speculation. 

Mr. Rice. For speculation? 

Mr. Tracey. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. All right. What did he pay for that property ? 

Mr. Tracey. $10,000. 

Mr. Rice. $10,000? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, did he pay you a commission or did the seller pay 
you a commission? 

Mr. Tracey. The seller paid me a commission of $500. 

Mr. Rice. The property was taken in whose name? 

Mr. Tracey. I haven't the deed to that 

Mr. Rice. The purchase contract shows it, wouldn't it? 

Mr. Tracey. The contract, of course, usually starts with it — John 
and Anna Torrio. 

Mr. Rice. What address was given for Torrio there ? 

Mr. Tracey. I haven't it on this contract here. At that time he was 
living in Pass-A-Grille. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any out-of-State address for Torrio? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes; I did have one — 8801 Shore Road, that was 
probably Brooklyn. 

Mr. Rice. Brooklyn, N. Y.? 

Mr. Tracey. Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Rice. Now, this was what date in 1944, approximately ? 

Mr. Tracey. The contract is definitely dated December 21, 1944. 

Mr. Rice. I see. All right ; now, what happened next with respect 
to that property? 



92 OlRGANIIZEiD CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Tracey. The deal was closed and in the course of events — I don't 
recall where it was closed — it could have been at the west coast title 
or it could have been at one of the attorney's offices. I didn't handle 
the closing. 

Mr. Rice. Torrio held that property for a time, Did he dispose 
of it? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you handle the negotiation for him ? 

Mr. Tracey. I handled the negotiation as far as the closing is 
concerned. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about how you sold the property. 

Mr. Tracey. Well, when John left here he said, "Well, if I can get 
five thousand or six thousand dollars profit out of it, I will take it in 
the course of events," and of course 

Mr. Rice. You admit that it was you ? 

Mr. Tracey. Oh, yes, that was a definite listing. I mean nothing is 
binding but still it is a definite listing. In the course of events I sold 
that property to Hugh Culbreath and his wife, Diane, I believe. 

Mr. Rice. How was the prospect — how did it activate, did Culbreath 
come in or did you seek him out ? 

Mr. Tracey. It could have been either way. 

Mr. Rice. We are not interested in what it could have been. We are 
interested in what happened. 

Mr. Tracey. I can't tell you that. I made four or five trips over to 
Mr. Culbreatlrs office, I was seeking to sell the other property on the 
beach, and this piece, and of course, I was successful in selling it, and 
that is the only piece of property that he has bought from me. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say about the reason for wanting that piece 
of property ? 

Mr. Tracey. I don't know as I questioned him, I was out to make 
a commission. 

Mr. Rice. Well, as a real-estate man you certainly 

Mr. Tracey. I am calling on my memory for 5 years, Mr. Rice, and 
I would like to help you as much as I can. 

Mr. Rice. How much commission did you make ? 

Mr. Tracey. I made a thousand dollars and I should have made 
a normal commission of $1,600 on that deal. 

Mr. Rice. Well, certainly a thousand-dollar deal, you are going to 
remember something about it. 

Mr. Tracey. Well, it was probably over a period of 

Well, it was probably over a period of a month that I was negotiat- 
ing with him. I know that I finally got a check and a firm offer from 
Mr. Culbreath for $16,000 for that property. Torrio wanted $18,000. 

Mr. Rice. You got a check from Culbreath in connection with the 
offer? 

Mr. Tracey. I can't swear that I got a check from Culbreath. I got 
$1,600 because I held $1,600 earnest money that I put in a wire. I 
know I would not have said that unless I got it. Whether that was 
cash or check I don't know. I presume it was a check. 

Mr. Rice. What does the wire say ? 

Mr. Tracey. It was dated September 20, 1945, addressed to John 
Torrio, 8801 Shore Road : 

Please wire acceptance of $16,000 cash offer for Pass-A-Grille. I hold $1,600 
earnest money, deposit. My commission 10 percent, ahout which information 
can he obtained. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 93 

That was signed by my wife, Mary Tracey. 

Mr. Rice. What happened as the result of that? 

Mr. Tracey. I got an acknowledgment through the attorney that 
he was going to accept that providing I would take $1,000 commission. 

Mr. Rice. And what attorney was that? 

Mr. Tracey. It was U. S. Barritt, and quite a long firm name, T 
don't recall what all the firm name is. 

Mr. Rice. Where is Barritt located? 

Mr. Tracey. In St. Petersburg. 

Mr. Rice. And he represented Torrio ? 

Mr. Tracey. He represented Torrio ; that is right. 

Mr. Rice. All right, what did you do to close the deal? 

Mr. Tracey. There is a record of the closing or sale of the Pass-A- 
Grille property by John Torrio and wife to Hugh L. Culbreath and 
wife, showing 'the purchase-price credit and deposit paid, which was 
$1,600, and received from the purchaser so much money and marked 
"collected $1,600" by Tracey. n _ 

Mr. Rice. Before that you had obtained a firm purchase otter. Was 

that written? 

Mr. Tracey. Mr. Rice, I couldn't tell you. It doesn't sound like me 
to deal without a written offer and it may be that Mr. Culbreath gave 
me a check and I am sure it was a check or I would have remembered 
cash, for $1,600. I would not have confessed it in this telegram to 
Torrio, if I had not. 

Mr. Rice. Did vou order the title searched? 

Mr. Tracey. No; immediately upon acceptance of the deal it was 
taken out of my hands by the attorney. _ 

Mr. Rice. Who was the other attorney representing Culbreath ^ 

Mr. Tracey. I would not know. I was not at the closing. 

Mr. Rice. Who took it out of your hands ? 

Mr. Tracey. Well, I simply gave the attorney for Mr. Torrio, $600 
of the $1,600 deposit, and that washed me out as far as I was con- 
cerned. I had my commission. 

Mr. Rice. You held the commission? 

Mr. Tracey. I held my commission back. That is right, That was 
the usual procedure in a real-estate transaction. 

Mr. Rice. What was the selling price finally agreed upon ? 

Mr. Tracey. $16,000. 

Mr. Rice. That is $6,000 more than Torrio had paid for the 
property ? 

Mr. Tracey. That is right. Of course, Torrio paid me a 
commission. 

Mr. Rice. I show you a photostatic copy of deed and ask you if you 
recognize it. 

Mr. Tracey. I would not recognize the deed other than 

Mr. Rice. Is that the property in question? 

Mr. Tracey. I would not describe it this way. However, I think 
that it might be the same property, because it is less the north 66 feet 
of Phillips subdivision of Pass-A-Grille. 

Mr. Rice. Is the date all right? 

Mr. Tracey. October 8. There is no closing date on this, but that 
should be about the date. 

68958— 51— pt. la 7 



94 ORGANIIZEID CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Rice. This deed runs between John Torrio and wife, to Hugh 
Culbreath and wife? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And his address as 5015 West Shore Drive. Is that Cul- 
breath's address ? 

Mr. Tracey. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You stated that you had been there several times ? 

Mr. Tracey. To his office ; never to his home. 

Mr. Rice. From the stamps affixed can you tell the consideration? 

Mr. Tracey. $16,000, apparently. 

Mr. Rice. We will offer the deed. 

Senator Hunt. It will be received as exhibit 7. And at this time 
we will take to the records of the hearing the exhibits by the chief of 
police which shall be noted as exhibit No. 7. This shall be 8 and the 
exhibits by the chief of police shall be No. 7. 

(Thereupon, the instrument presented by Mr. Rice was received in 
evidence as exhibit No. 8, and appears in the appendix on p. 486. 
Also, the exhibits identified by Mr. Beasley, the chief of police, were 
received in evidence, as exhibit No. 7, and were later returned after 
analysis by the committee.) 

Mr. Rice. In connection with the transaction were there any other 
individuals involved? Was Red Italiano involved? 

Mr. Tracey. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did he appear with Culbreath any time ? 

Mr. Tracey. I do not know. I would not know him if I saw him. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever had any transactions with Red Italiano? 

Mr. Tracey. No, sir ; I have never had any. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Tracey. I would not know him if I saw him ; no, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any other transactions with Hugh Cul- 
breath? 

Mr. Tracey. No, sir ; I tried to sell him various pieces of property, 
but I have never been successful since this deal here. 

Mr. Rice. In connection with those attempts to sell, did you, from 
time to time, drive around Pass-A-Grille with him? 

Mr. Tracey. Yes ; on occasions, and, of course, it was not only Pass- 
A-Grille. I tried to sell him property on St. Petersbug Beach and 
various beaches, a distance of around 3 or 4 miles up and down the 
beach. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you consider him a good prospect ? 

Mr. Tracey. Because he bought one piece of property from me. 

Mr. Rice. Did he pay cash for that property ? 

Mr. Tracey. He paid cash for that property, I believe. 

Mr. Rice. No mortgage arrangements, whatsoever? 

Mr. Tracey. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. In traveling around with him from time to time, did he 
point out other parcels of holdings that he h id ? 

Mr. Tracey. No, sir ; never. 

Mr. Rice. He never showed you any other tracts? 

Mr. Tracey. He never showed me anything he owned. That is 
right. 

Mr. Rice. How many times would you say you talked with Cul- 
breath in connection with the sales from Torrio? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 95 

Mr. Tracey. Still calling on memory ; it runs in my mind that I 
was over here three or four times and it runs in my mind that I called 
on him once in the office over here and once in the county jail. I 
would not know one from the other. I mean he has two offices. 

Mr. Rice. And all of this time you knew who Torrio was, that he 
was, at least, said to be an Al Capone hoodlum ? 

Mr. Tracey. Oh ; that is right. 

Mr. Rice. 1 think that is all. Thank you . 

(Witness excused). 

Senator Hunt. Will Mr. Vincent Spoto please come forward ? You 
are Mr. Vincent Spoto? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Spoto. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF VINCENT SPOTO, TAMPA, FLA., ACCOMPANIED BY 
JOHN A. CELAYA, BOOKKEEPER, ANTHONY DISTRIBUTORS 

Mr. Rice. What is your name and address, Mr. Spoto? 

Mr. Spoto. Vincent Spoto, 2708 Royal Court. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Spoto, what do you do ? 

Mr. Spoto. I am president of Anthony Distributors. 

Mr. Rice. And what is the Anthony Distributors. 

Mr. Spoto. The distributors of beer and wine. 

Mr. Rice. Distributors of beer and wine on a wholesale basis % 

Mr. Spoto. Wholesale basis. 

Mr. Rice. Is it a corporation ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you hold an office in the corporation ? 

Mr. Spoto. I am president of the corporation. 

Mr. Rice. You are president ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Are you appearing here in response to a subpena to bring 
with you certain records ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have those with you ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, I have them right here. 

Mr. Rice. Before we go into those I would like to talk about a 
transaction testified to here this morning by Noah Caton, whereby 
Anthony Distributors took title to a piece of property known as the 
Fish property over in Pass-A-Grille ? Tell us about that. 

Mr. Spoto. We bought that. We were figuring on putting a ware- 
house in Pinellas County and we bought that and we decided that it 
was not the proper place for it, you know. We were going to put 
something on that side, see ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, for a liquor warehouse ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. In Pass-A-Grille ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. From whom was it bought? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't remember — bought from whom, to tell you the 
truth. 



96 ORGANIIZElD CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. You don't know from whom it was bought ? 

Mr. SroTO. I don't remember, no. 

Mr. Rice. Who would know that? 

Mr. Spoto. I have got the books here to show. 

Mr. Rice. Look at the books and tell us. 

Mr. Spoto. Is it all right if I show you the books ? 

Mr. Rice. Sure. 

Mr. Spoto. Shall I call the accountant ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Who does the buying and selling of the property 
for the corporation ? 

Mr. Spoto. Salvatore Italiano is the general manager. 

Mr. Rice. Is he the same as "Red" Italiano? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What office does he hold in the corporation ? 

Mr. Spoto. He is general manager, you know. He is not a director. 

Mr! Rice. He is not a director or officer, but general manager? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Does he receive a salary ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How much? 

Mr. Spoto. $300 a week. 

Mr. Rice. How long has he been connected with the Anthony 
Distributors ? 

Mr. Spoto. Since 1940, 1 think. 

Mr. Rice. Since 1940 ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you been connected with the Anthony 

Distributors? 

Mr. Spoto. Since 1941. 

Mr. Rice. Where is Salvatore Italiano now ? . 

Mr Spoto. I don't know where he is at. He came from Italy and 
he has been in New Orleans. He was in a clinic there and Ave tried 
to get hold of the clinic and he wasn't at the clinic, but he was going 
to report back. 

Mr. Rice. You mean to say, as president of the corporation, you do 
not know where your general manager is ? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, "he is not with us any more. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about that a little bit. 

Mr. Spoto. Since December 1 he wrote us a letter that he was 
resigning from the corporation. 

Mr. Rice. Since when ? 

Mr. Spoto. December 1. 

Mr. Rice. Of what year ? 

Mr. Spoto. This year. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have that letter ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. I would like to see that. 

Would you read this letter, Mr. Spoto? [Handing a document 
to the witness, who thereupon read from same, m a tone inaud- 
ible to the reporter.] 

Now, when was the last time you heard from Red Italiano < 

Mr. Spoto. Well, sometime in November. 

Mr. Rice. Sometime in November? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 97 

Mr. Rice. Where was he then ? 

Mr. Sraro. New Orleans. 

Mr. Rice. Where was he ? 

Mr. Spoto. At the Oeschner Clinic. 

Mr. Rice. I didn't get that. 

Mr. Spoto. The Oeschner Clime. 

Mr. Rice. What was he doing there? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, he was sick. He said he had been sick, see. rle 
had been sick for quite a while. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see him ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. _ ,.110 

Mr. Rice. Did you talk to him over the telephone * 

Mr Spoto. I talked to him on the telephone. 

Mr. Rice. Who is your general manager now? 

Mr Spoto. Anthony Italiano. Anthony S. Italiano 

Mr. Rice. What relation is he to Salvatore "Red Italiano? 

Mr. Spoto. His son. 

Mr. Rice. His son? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. . , .. , ,. , 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any action of your board of directors 
indicating the appointment of Anthony S. Italiano? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where is that ? 

Mr. Spoto. It's in this book. 

Mr. Rice. It is in this book ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. The minutes of the meetings of the board ( 

"Mr Spoto. ^ es. 

Mr! Rice.' Is Salvatore Italiano, about whom we are talking, a 

criminal ? 

Mr. Spoto. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Not that you know of? 

Mr Spoto. In other words, not that I know of, I am telling you. 

Mr. Rice. And you mean to tell me that you have never heard that 
Italiano had been in the Atlanta Penitentiary? 

Mr. Spoto. Oh, he was ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. He was in Atlanta? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I wonder if he is the same man who has that record there. 
(Exhibiting a document to the witness.) 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. . . 

Mr. Rice. When did you find out about that criminal record i 

Mr. Spoto. What? . 

Mr. Rice. When did vou find out about that criminal record that 
he had which reflects that in 19,30 he was committed to the pemten- 
titary in Atlanta Ga. 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. For conspiracy to violate the National Prohibition Act, 
and was given a year and a day. and that in 1933 he was convicted of 
a charge of perjury and sentenced to 2 years 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And in 1933 he was again convicted for vagrancy and 
sentenced to 60 days; that he was fined in Tampa, Fla., for violation of 
the National Prohibition Act? When did you find out about that? 



98 O'RGAKilZElD CRIME IN INTERSTATE: COMMERCE: 

Mr. Spoto. What do you mean? What do you mean, did I find 
out about it ? At the time, I guess. 

Mr. Rice. At the time? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. In 1930? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You have been around since then ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. So you would know of those crimes ? 

Mr. Spoto. No, you asked me if he was a criminal and I said I 
don't think he was a criminal, but, in other words, you didn't ask 
me about a criminal record. 

Mr. Rice. Don't you think a man who has been in the penitentiary 
is a criminal ? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, if you say so, if you say so. 

Mr. Rice. What are the State beverage laws with respect to the 
participation by criminals in a liquor distributorship ? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, I don't know, to tell you the truth. In other 
words, I believe, you know, I don't know if they can get any license 
or what. 

Mr. Rice. You don't think they can get a license, do you ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know. I don't really know. 

Mr. Rice. How does it happen, then, that Italiano, being a criminal, 
can be general manager of a licensee ? How do you account for that ? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, I don't know about that. In other words, in 
order to get a distributorship you have to have an official permit. I 
guess it was investigated. 

Mr. Rice. So you don't understand how that happened ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. Neither do we. Now, then, when did Italiano so to 
Italy? 

Mr. Spoto. Sometime in May. 

Mr. Rice. Of what year? 

Mr. Spoto. Of last year — I mean this year, you know. 

Mr. Rice. Of 1950? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes ; 1950 ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any recollection when the Committee to 
Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce was formed? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. Well, I tell you that was May 1950. 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Have you seen him at all since he went to Italy ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did he take an automobile with him ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was it? 

Mr. Spoto. A Cadillac. 

Mr. Rice. Did he bring it back with him ? 

Mr. Spoto. No ; not that I know. 

Mr. Rice. Who paid for the automobile? 

Mr. Spoto. He paid. 

Mr. Rice. He paid for it? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Didn't Anthony Distributors pay for it? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME* IN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 99 

Mr. Spoto. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Is there anything in your records which will throw any 
light on that? 

Mr. John A. Celata. The corporation didn't pay for it. 

Mr. Rice. The corporation did not pay ? 

Mr. Celata. No. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for his taking that Cadillac to 
Italy ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know. That's his business. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. He didn't bring it back ? 

Mr. Spoto. What? 

Mr. Rice. He did not bring it back ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You know he didn't, don't you ? 

Mr. Spoto. What? 

Mr. Rice. You know he didn't bring it back ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know if he brought it back or not. 

Mr. Rice. Hadn't you heard that it was delivered to Charles 
"Lucky" Luciano? 

Mr. Spoto. Not that I know of. I don't know anything about it. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Spoto. Sure, I'm sure. I'm positive. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, upon his return from Italy — when was that ? 

Mr. Spoto. Pardon? 

Mr. Rice. What was he doing in Italy ? Was he there on business 
for Anthony Distributors ? 

Mr. Spoto. In Italy? 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Spoto. Not that I know of. He was sick, see, and he was, you 
know — he went over there. 

Mr. Rice. He went there for his health ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, was he drawing a salary during that time ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And how was that being paid to him ? 

Mr. Celata. It was credited to his account. 

Mr. Rice. To his bank account ? 

Mr. Celata. Drawing account. 

Mr. Rice. Has he called upon that drawing account? Has he with- 
drawn his funds from the account? 

Mr. Celata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. I wonder if we might have this witness identified. Will 
you stand up, sir ? 

Senator Hunt. Would you give your name? 

Mr. Celata. John A. Celaya. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give 
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Celata. I do. 

Mr. Rice. What was that name? 

Mr. Celata. Celaya, John A., C-e-1-a-y-a. 

Mr. Rice. You are the accountant with the 

Mr. Celata. Bookkeeper. 

Mr. Rice. Are you an officer of the corporation ? 



100 ORGANIZE© CRIME, 11ST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Celaya. No, sir; I am not. 

Mr. Rice. You are a full-time employee, on the books? 

Mr. Celaya. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, when these funds were credited to his drawing 
account, explain how that transaction takes place? 

Mr. Celaya. Well, I pay a lot of things and charge it against his 
account ; for instance, his taxes on his home and other real estate that 
he owns, and I credit his salary against that account to offset the 
drawings. 

Mr. Rice. And you pay taxes on his home? 

Mr. Celaya. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. What does that have to do with Anthony Distributors, 
Mr. Spoto ? What do payments of taxes on the home of Italiano have 
to do with the business ? 

Mr. Spoto. The company don't pay it. 

Mr. Rice. What ? 

Mr. Spoto. The company don't pay it. 

Mr. Rice. What did you say? 

Mr. Celaya. It is charged against his personal account, then his 
salary is credited against that account, see, and he draws from it. 

Mr. Rice. Then you act as his personal accountant as well as for 
the company? 

Mr. Celaya. Well, you might say that, what little time it takes. 

Mr. Rice. What has become of the accumulation of salary that was 
credited to Italiano during the time he was in Italy? 

Mr. Celaya. There was not only an accumulation of credits; there 
was an accumulation of debits. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. Celaya. He owes us money, because I paid some insurance of 
his and 

Mr. Rice. So he is in the red so far as Anthony Distributors is 
concerned ? 

Mr. Celaya. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. What are you going to do to collect that money that 
Italiano owes? 

Mr. Spoto. I am going to try to do that. 

Mr. Rice. How are you going to try to do that ? 

Mr. Spoto. What? 

Mr. Rice. How are you going to try to do it ? 

Mr. Spoto. I am going to try to get it from his son, or somebody. 

Mr. Rice. From his son ? 

Mr. Spoto. From his family. 

Mr. Rice. What entries do you have on Italiano's account? May 
I see his ledger account? 

Mr. Celaya. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. While we are looking that up, Mr. Spoto, who are the 
other officers of Anthony Distributors? 

Mr. Spoto. Anthony S. Italiano is vice president and general man- 
ager, and Elinor Italiano is treasurer. 

Mr. Rice. Who is she ? 

Mr. Spoto. She is a daughter to Salvatore Italiano. 

Mr. Rice. She is Salvatore (Red) Italiano's daughter? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who are the directors of the corporation ? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE lOl 

Mr. Spoto. I am. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Spoto. 

Mr. Spoto. Mr. Spoto, and Anthony S. Italiano and Elinor 
Italiano. 

Mr. Eice. Do yon have a list of stockholders of 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Celaya. The stockholders are the three directors and Mrs. 
Marie Italiano. 

Mr. Rice. Does anyone other than the persons mentioned have any 
interest, directly or indirectly, in Anthony Distributors? Do yon 
know about that ? 

Mr. Spoto. No, not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. How many employees do you have there? 

Mr. Spoto. Let me see. 

Mr. Rice. Well, approximately? 

Mr. Spoto. Six, seven, nine and three is twelve and three is fifteen 
and five is twenty, and three, four — around twenty-six or twenty- 
seven, something like that. 

Mr. Celaya. Twenty-nine. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a profit and loss statement for 1949 or any 
more recent date than that ? 

Mr. Celaya. Yes, sir, 1949. 

Mr. Rice. You have one for 1949 ? 

Mr. Celaya. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. "When Mr. Italiano was in Italy, was he transacting any 
business ? Was he buying wine or anything for the company ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. If he could find, you know, the right wine 

Mr. Rice. I beg pardon ? 

Mr. Spoto. If he could find — in other words, you know, in other 
words, we can't import, see. 

Mr. Rice. You cannot import ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't think so. I think you have to have a bonded 
warehouse, or something. 

Mr. Rice. So any stories or rumors to the effect that Italiano was 
in Italy on company business would be wrong — he was not there on 
company business, was he ? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, no; not that I know of. You know, there was 
rumors in the paper that he was on company business there. 

Mr. Rice. And you never told anyone that he was there on company 
business ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure of that? 

Mr. Spoto. Positive. 

Mr. Rice. Now. we want to know about the purchase of this prop- 
erty, Eisler Fish Co. Tell us about that, how it was negotiated? 

Mr. Spoto. We were figuring on putting in a warehouse. 

Mr. Rice. When you say "we,'' who is "we" ? 

Mr. Spoto. The company. We realized it wasn't a proper place over 
there, and we thought that we would sell it. 

Mr. Rice. How did you get it first? Who did you buy it from? 
How much did you pay for it? Who did you negotiate with? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, what do you mean now ? 

Mr. Rice. How did you learn of the property and who did you 
negotiate with? Who did you buy it from? 



102 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 1 

Mr. Spoto. I didn't handle it. Mr. Italiano was general manager. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Italiano handled it? 

Mr. Spoto. He bought the property. 

Mr. Rice. He was strictly responsible to you as president? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Eice. Did he consult with you? 

Mr. Spoto. Well, we paid, if I remember right, I think it was 
$19,000. 

Mr. Eice. Italiano was negotiating with whom ? 

Mr. Spoto. What do you mean ? The real estate man ? 

Mr. Rice. The real estate man. 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the real estate man ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. We had some testimony this morning that there was a 
man named Caton who was to buy it from Mr. Zekosky, and that there 
was no real estate people involved. How do you account for that ? 

Mr. Spoto. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. You can do better than that. You are president of the 
company, and buying a $19,000 piece of property. 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You don't deal with thin air. 

Mr. Spoto. I didn't deal with anybody, you understand. I am 
president of the company, but we bought the property, and I was 
willing to buy the property. It doesn't mean I have to go and see 
everybody. I didn't make the transaction. 

Mr. Rice. It was all handled by Italiano ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And the company paid for it? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Can you explain how it happened that after a purchase 
contract was drawn between Caton and Zekosky at the closing of the 
sale, the deed was made to Anthony Distributors ? 
Mr. Spoto. Sure. 
Mr. Rice. How did it happen ? 
Mr. Spoto. Because we paid for it. 

Mr. Rice. How did you get into the middle of the Caton-Zekosky 
deal ? ' 

Mr. Spoto. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know how that happened, do you ? 
Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did Sheriff Culbreath have anything to do with it? 
Mr. Spoto. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. He was not in the picture at all ? 
Mr. Spoto. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. You are sure of that? 
Mr. Spoto. Positive. 

Mr. Rice. None of his money was involved ? 
Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. None of his instructions ? 
Mr. Spoto. No. 
Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 
Mr. Spoto. I know him if I see him. 
Mr. Rice. You know him if you see him ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 103 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You know him to talk to, too, don't you ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. I never talked to him. 

Mr. Rice. Never had any conversation with him? 

Mr. Spoto. No; as far as talking to him, I never had any conver- 
sation. 

Mr. Rice. Remember, you are under oath now. 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You never had any conversation at all ? 

Mr. Spoto. That's what I'm telling you right now. 

Mr. Rice. Now, in any event, Anthony Distributors bought this 
property. And what did it consist of? What was it? Did you 
inspect it? 

Mr. Spoto. It was a fish house, and we were figuring on tearing it 
down and building a warehouse. 

Mr. Rice. Then what happened? 

Mr. Spoto. We felt it wasn't a proper place, you know. It wasn't 
a proper place over there for the warehouse. It was out of the way. 

Mr. Rice. The place didn't change any from the time you first looked 
at it, did it? 

Mr. Spoto. We took it over and thought that it was a good buy, but 
it wasn't a proper place. 

Mr. Rice. So that at the time it was a good place and later on, it was 
not a good place ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes ; a lot of times you change your mind. 

Mr. Rice. There seems to be a lot of changes here this afternoon. 

Mr. Spoto. Sure. 

Mr. Rice. Now, how long did Anthony Distributors hold onto that 
property ? 

M r. Spoto. Just the matter of a month, I think. 

Mr. Rice. A month or two ? 

Mr. Spoto. A month or two or three. 

Mr. Rice. Who was in charge of it ? 

Mr. Spoto. Anthony Distributors. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the man who was actually on the premises with 
business going on there ? Who was handling it? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. You mean now that you are president of the company, 
holding a $19,000 piece of property with a business going on, and you 
don't know who is running it ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Could it have been a man named Caton ? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know Caton ? 

Mr. Spoto. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You don't remember him ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. Never talked with him ? 

Mr. Spoto. Never talked with him. 

Mr. Rice. What became of the property ? 

Mr. Spoto. We sold it, 

Mr. Rice. To whom ? 

Mr. Spoto. To a fellow by the name of Mr. Wescott. 

Mr. Rice. Who is he? 



104 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Spoto. He was working for some packing company that I know 
of. 

Mr. Rice. How were yon selling it ? 

Mr. Srom Mr. Italiano made the transaction. 

Mr. Rice. Were any real estate people involved? 

Mr. SroTO. No, sir; not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. What did Red Italiano say about the reason Mr. Wes- 
cott wanted it ? How did he find him ? * How did he know he wanted 
it? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know. I didn't ask him. We wanted to get rid 
of it and I didn't ask him. 

Mr. Rice. You just wanted to get rid of the whole thing? 

Mr. SroTO. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. But it ended up the property of a man named Wescott. 
How did it happen that the tax bills after that show up in the name 
ofCulbreath? 

Mr. Spoto. I don't know about that. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know that, either. What is your salary, Mr. 
Sj)oto ? 

Mr. Spoto. A hundred a week. 

Mr. Rice. $100 a week. Do you have any other compensation from 
the company besides that ? 

Mr. Spoto. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you draw any dividends ? 

Mr. Spoto. No, sir. Not yet. 

Mr. Rice. Do you hold any stock ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. So your entire compensation is $100? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Tell me, Mr. Spoto, do you have a list of other proper- 
ties, holdings of Anthony Distributors? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Can you produce that? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. In general, list those for me, will you ? 

Mr. Celaya. Those are two lots on Piatt and Rome, business 
property. 

Mr. Rice. Unimproved ? 

Mr. Celaya. Unimproved. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately, what is the value of those? It's carried 
on the books as something, as an asset, a capital asset? 

Mr. Celaya. I don't know but I think they were worth around 
$10,000. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Celaya. That is real estate. That is the warehouse and it's 
got an upstairs that we rent and a side office that we rent. 

Mr. Rice. What value did you carry on that ? 

Mr. Celaya. $49,000. 

Mr. Rice. Is that subject to any mortgage? 

Mr. Celaya. Subject to mortgage; yes. 

Mr. Rice. In what amount ? 

Mr. Celaya. There is a balance of around $11,000. 

Mr. Rice. Any others? 

Mr. Celaya. There is the Clearwater property. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 105 

Mr. Rice. What is the Clearwater property? 

Mr. Celata. That is some lots we bought over there on Cleveland 
Street as an investment and built a building on it and the Oldsmo- 
bile Motor Co. rents it for $250 a month, with a 5-year lease. We 
have a mortgage on that with the First Federal Savings and Loan 
Association for $15,000. 

Mr. Rice. That is investment property ? 

Mr. Spoto. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Spoto, why do you have investment property at the 
same time carry a mortgage? 

Mr. Spoto. We had a lease on it ? You mean we had a lease? 

Mr. Celata. We obtain a lease before we build on it, a 5-year lease, 
guaranteeing payment. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, I see, you are amortizing. 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Will you tell us the salaries of the other officers, Mr. 
Spoto ? 

Mr. Spoto. The other officers ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Spoto. Well, Eleanor hasn't got any salary. 

Mr. Rice. She has no salary ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. In other words, I don't draw a salary as president. 

Mr. Rice. You don't draw a salary? 

Mr. SroTO. The officers don't draw salaries as officers. I am in the 
shipping department. 

Mr. Rice. You actually perform duties other than as an officer? 

Mr. Spoto. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. The officers don't draw salaries ? 

Mr. Spoto. No ; not as officers. 

Mr. Rice. How about Anthony ? 

Mr. Spoto. Anthony is the general manager. He draws $250 a 
week. 

Mr. Rice. He is general manager ? 

Mr. Spoto. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And Red Italiano is paid what? 

Mr. Spoto. He was paid. 

Mr. Rice. How much ? 

Mr. Spoto. $300 a week. 

Mr. Rice. Since you have been with the company, has there been 
any dividends ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. There never have been any dividends ? 

Mr. Spoto. No. 

Mr. Rice. This is the extent of the real property holdings? 

Mr. Spoto. I think so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a rundown on the personal property — any 
automobiles there besides trucks? 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Spoto, we are going to ask you to leave all your 
records with us overnight. Now, we realize our retaining those 
records may be of some inconvenience to you, so I assure you we will 
examine them and get them back to you as promptly as possible. 

Mr. Celaya. Could we have these? On account of the year ending 
right now it is pretty hard on us, you know. 

Mr. Rice. How do you have them broken down ? Monthly ? 



106 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Celaya. No. 

Mr. Rice. Suppose you work it out with Mr. Martin's staff here 
and we will — we are interested in compensation to the Italiano family 
since December 1. We will work that out and you can probably take 
along your working ledgers. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Spoto, we will excuse you at this time, but it 
does not relieve you of being under subpena in that we may wish to 
have you appear as a witness again before the hearing is concluded. 
We will excuse you at this time. 

Mr. Spoto. Leave everything ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes ; leave everj^thing, if you will, please. 

Senator Hunt. This will be No. 9. Your records, Mr. Spoto. will 
be received as exhibit No. 9. 

(Records of Anthony Distributors, exhibit No. 9, were later returned 
to the witness.) 

Mr. Celaya. I think I bought a Cadillac in 1946. 

Mr. Rice. Is that Cadillac still in the company's possession? 

Mr. Celaya. Yes. 

(Thereupon, Mr. Spoto and Mr. Celaya were excused.) 

oenator Hunt. Mr. David F. Wescott. You are Mr. Wescott? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID F. WESCOTT, MANAGER, WILSON & CO., 
TAMPA, FLA., ACCOMPANIED BY KAY C. BROWN, ATTORNEY, 
TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Wescott. I do. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Wescott, you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. Will you give your name please, for the record ? 

Mr. Brown. Ray C. Brown, Tampa, Fla. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Wescott, give us your address. 

Mr. Wescott. 2703 Jetton, Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. Jetton Avenue, Tampa ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is your occupation, Mr. Wescott? 

Mr. Wescott. I am manager of Wilson & Co. 

Mr. Rice. And they are — ■ — 

Mr. Wescott. Meat-packing business. 

Mr. Price. Meat packers? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When did you first come to the Tampa area, Mr. Wes- 
cott? 

Mr. Wescott. In 1937. 

Mr. Rice. And in what capacity were you then ? 

Mr. Wescott. As manager of the Wilson & Co. branch. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you come from ? 

Mr. Wescott. Miami. 

Mr. Rice. And you were originally from Scranton? 

Mr. Wescott. That is correct. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 107 

Mr. Rice. When you first came to Tampa what was your salary? 

Mr. Wescott. That I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't remember ? 

Mr. AVescott. No. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately? 

Mr. Wescott. I would imagine approximately $90 a week. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you live then? 

Mr. Wescott. Then I lived off of Bayshore Drive on a street called 
Palm Drive in Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. Did you own a home there? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you rent the home ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you own any property at that time ? 

Mr. Wescott. I did own a home in Miami when I left Miami; 
yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You owned a home in Miami ? 

Mr. Wescott. When I left there, yes. 

Mr. Rice. You sold the home in Miami ? 

Mr. Wescott. When I came to Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. And how much did you sell the home for, what was your 
net, approximately ? 

Mr. Wescott. I imagine $3,500. 

Mr. Rice. When you came to Tampa, did you have any other 
holdings besides the $3,500 ? 

Mr. Wescott. Nothing, only my cash money that I had. 

Mr. Rice. And how much cash money did you have, approximately ? 

Mr. Wescott. I would say approximately $15,000 in cash and in 
banks. 

Mr. Rice. You say this was 1937 ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What bank? 

Mr. Wescott. Well, I believe it was the First National Bank in 
Miami. I had a lock box and I had a savings account. 

Mr. Rice. Where was your savings account ? 

Mr. Wescott. In the First National Bank. 

Mr. Rice. In the First National Bank of Miami ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And did you keep cash money in your lock box ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you had a savings account? 

Mr. Wescott. I had a savings account and I also kept cash money, 
and I have always had a lock box in Wilson & Co.'s safe. 

Mr. Rice. Does your lock box pay you interest ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Does that savings account ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. The savings account does not pay you any ? 

Mr. Wescott. Practically none ; no, sir. 

Mr. Rice. It pays you some interest, though, does it not? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes ; some interest. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you not keep your money in your cash box in 
your savings account ? 



108 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Wescott. Because I can remember back to days when the bank 
went broke and folks lost all of the money they had. 

Mr. Rice. So you do not trust banks? 

Mr. Wescott. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Now, have you been present here today for a while ? 

Mr. Wescott. I was sitting right outside there in the window 
awhile. I haven't been in the room. 

Mr. Rice. You have not been in here this morning ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. In fact, this is my first appearance in a court- 
room. 

Mr. Rice. Well, since you have come to Tampa you have been 
steadily employed with Wilson & Co. ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. As manager ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any other employment? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What other employment ? 

Mr. Wescott. With the Gulfstream race track in Miami. 

Mr. Rice. And what employment is that ? 

Mr. Wescott. I have been a director and an officer. 

Mr. Rice. When did you first become associated with the Gulf- 
stream track ? 

Mr. Wescott. I am not certain, but I believe it was 1943, either late 
1942 or early 1943. 

Mr. Rice. How did that come about ? You are up here in Tampa 
and Gulfstream is down there? 

Mr. Wescott. I originally lived in Miami. It was through some 
Miami folks I originally got interested in the property, and they 
talked to me about it and, in turn, I got some other folks on the west 
coast interested in it, 

Mr. Rice. Tell me who these Miami people were and who the west 
coast folks were. 

Mr. Wescott. One west coast man is William Hudson. I believe he 
is president of the Carpenters and Joiners Union, I guess you would 
call it. George T. Taylor. 

Mr. Rice. What does he do ? 

Mr. Wescott. He is deceased now, but he was a building contractor 
when I came to Tampa and was until he passed on. 

Mr. Rice. Who are the Miami folks ? 

Mr. Wescott. James Dan, Milo Coffman, Frank Pepper, George 
Langford. 

Mr. Rice. And those were friends of yours ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And, as the result of your interest, what happened ? Did 
you buy stock or were you hired ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. Originally, I did not buy stock. I put up 
certain money in what was considered a pool to buy liens on this 
property, to put up money, some, I believe. $5,000 in cash, for which 
I did not even have a scratch of a pen and I don't think anybody else 
did. It was just a group formed to put up the money to buy up these 
liens. Bought them and eventually bought the track out of bank- 
ruptcy court. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 109 

Mr. Rice. What interest did you have in the track when you bought 
it? What was your share? . u 

Mr. Wescott. It was very small. I don't know when we bought 
it in what that would be. I have more than I have ever had at any 
other time. 1 am not certain, but I believe I own today either 227% 
shares, or 247y 2 out of 15,000 shares. 

Mr. Rice. What is the value of a share, Mr. Wescott? 

Mr. Wescott. I do not know. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, yes ; you do. You own the shares of stock and you 
have an idea of what they are. 

Mr. Wescott. There have recently been transactions where shares 
have sold for $200 a share. 

Mr. Rice. And you have 247% shares ? 

Mr. Wescott. Either 227y 2 , or 247y 2 . 

Mr. Rice. Out of a total- 
Mr. Wescott. Of 15,000. 

Mr. Rice. You said you had employment at Gulfstream. \\ hat 
employment I 

Mr. Wescott. I was an officer. 

Mr. Rice. What officer? 

Mr. Wescott. Assistant secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Rice. And you draw a salary as an officer? 

Mr. Wescott. I draw a director's fee. 

Mr. Rice. In your capacity as assistant secretary-treasurer what 
are your duties ? 

Mr. Wescott. To assist the secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Rice. Who is the secretary-treasurer? 

Mr. Wescott. Milo Coffman. 

Mr. Rice. Where is he located? 

Mr. Wescott. In Miami. 

Mr. Rice. How do you assist him in Miami when you are holding a 
full-time job in Tampa? 

Mr. Wescott. I assist him in meetings. 

Mr. Rice. So that your assistance is confined to directors' meetings? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you draw additional compensation as a director? 

Mr. Wescott. A director's fee ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What does that amount to annually? 

Mr. Wescott. Whatever the board votes each year. 

Mr. Rice. What was it last year? 

Mr. Wescott. I am not certain as to that. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately? 

Mr. Wescott. I believe last year it was $500, either $1,000 or $500, 
and I am not certain. 

Mr. Rice. Was there a dividend on your stock? 
Mr. Wescott. Xo, sir, not last year ; there was not. 
Mr. Rice. Has there ever been a dividend? 

Mr. Wescott. There was a dividend on some preferred stock that I 
did own, but it has been sold. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you realize on that ? 

Mr. Wecott. I realized no profit. It was bought at $100 a share and 
sold at $100 a share. 

Mr. Rice. Your interest in Gulfstream started when ? 

68958—51 — pt. la £ 



110 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Wescott. In 1942 or 1943. 

Mr. Rice. The track was closed at that time ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you individually put up to acquire your 
interest ? 

Mr. Wescott. Originally I put up $5,000. 

Mr. Rice. And where did that come from ; what account? 

Mr. Wescott. I am not certain on that. I may have borrowed some 
of that, but the majority of it either came out of my safe at Wilson & 
Co., or came out of the lock box. 

Mr. Rice. Was that all cash? 

Mr. Wescott. To the best of my knowledge it was. 

Mr. Rice. Let's get a little closer to that. 

Mr. Wescott. That is the best I can give you. The records will 
show. 

Mr. Rice. You did not invest $5,000 every afternoon, I am sure. 

Mr. Wescott. The records of Gulfstream Track will show. To the 
best of my knowledge, it was all cash, but I am not certain. 

Mr. Rice. It came from your lock box ? 

Mr. Wescott. It either come from my safe or my lock box. 

Mr. Rice. It didn't go into any bank account ? 

Mr. Wescott. No ; I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. You say you think you borrowed some of the $5,000? 

Mr. Wescott. I may have ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you? 

Mr. Wescott. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. If you did 

Mr. Wescott. If I did I borrowed it from Alfred A. Smith in 
Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Wescott, we are going to have to come closer than 
this. Here is a transaction only 7 years ago in which you put up 
$5,000. You are a salaried man. This $5,000 has pyramided to a 
substantial sum now. 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You know where that money came from. Tell us where 
the money came from ? 

Mr. Wescott. No; I can't tell you where it came from. I don't 
recall where it came from. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to stand on the answer that you don't 
remember where the $5,000 came from ? 

Mr. Wescott. That is what I will have to stand on. 

Mr. Rice. Suppose it was said that the money came from Sheriff 
Culbreath. 

Mr. Wescott. That would be a lie. 

Mr. Rice. That would not be so ? 

Mr. Wescott. It would not. 

Mr. Rice. You remember that, don't you ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You will deny that any part of it came from Culbreath ? 

Mr. Wescott. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. There is a piece of property currently in your name which 
has a fish house, Iler's fish house, on it. Tell us about how you 
acquired that property. What were the negotiations leading to it, 
why you bought it, how you bought it ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 111 

Mr. Wescott. I bought it from a man who was known as Red 
Italiano. 

Mr. Rice. Yes ? ,1111 

Mr. Wescott. The negotiations that led up to that deal has been a 
long friendship. I met Sheriff Culbreath— perhaps he was the first 
man I met after I came to Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. How did you happen to meet him ? 

Mr. Wescott. He was a Shriner and in the Shrine patrol. I was a 
Shriner in Miami and transferred to Tampa. The former manager 
of Wilson & Co. was a Shriner and was formerly president of the 
Egypt temple patrol, and the man's name was Gleason. Gleason and 
Culbreath were friends. To the best of my knowledge, I was intro- 
duced to Culbreath in AVilson's— Wilson & Co.'s office ; however, I may 
have met him before that on these Shrine trips. I may have met him 
in Miami, I may have met him in Tampa or Jacksonville, but I met 
him there and out of that grew a friendship, and he picked me up, 
and the first time I visited a patrol meeting in Egypt temple, Hugh 
Culbreath, who then was constable, picked me up and carried me to 
his office. 

Mr. Rice. Was he ever in the meat business ? 

Mr. Wescott. I have been so advised. He was never in the meat 
business since I have been in Tampa, but that was one of our first con- 
versations, of the years that he had spent in the meat business. I be- 
lieve it was with Armour & Co. and with a subsidiary of Swift & Co., 
and maybe some others. 

Mr. Rice. What was his capacity with those companies ? 
Mr. Wescott. He was a salesman, as I understood it, here in this 
territory. 

Mr. Rice. This territory ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes ; the St. Petersburg and Tampa trade area. 
Mr. Rice. Let's get back to the property that came from Italiano. 
Mr. Wescott. Down through our friendship we had always — we 
have discussed for years the possibility of some day, when, maybe, he 

gets out of politics or when I retire 

= Mr. Rice. When who gets out of politics? 
Mr. Wescott. Sheriff Culbreath. 
Mr. Rice. Oh, Culbreath. 

Mr. Wescott. We will say should he get out of politics. That would 
be better. That he and I would like to have a business of our own, a 
wholesale meat business, to cater to hotels and restaurants, and for 
several years we were looking for a piece of property. Sheriff Cul- 
breath called me one day and said that he had an opportunity to lease 
a piece of property over at Pass-A-Grille and wanted to know if I 
would go with him and take a look at it. 

Mr. Rice. Can you fix the time of that, about ? What year ? 
Mr. Wescott. I would imagine that was in 1946. 
Mr. Rice. Yes? . . . 

Mr. Westcott. So I drove over there and looked at this piece of 
property with him. There was some gentleman that he expected to 
find there that he didn't find there. I told him on the way going oyer 
that I didn't believe that I was interested in going in a lease with 
him, however, I wanted to see the property. I looked it all over. He 
had a list of some cases and scales and fixtures, and so on, and 1 
helped him check that list of fixtures. We looked the property over, 



112 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

and I told him then that that was a fine piece of property. It is water- 
front property, two lots, as I understood at that time, and I believe 
that he told me he thought it could, perhaps, be bought for $16,000, 
and that perhaps if we got it tied up on a lease it might help buy it 
if we were interested. I told him I would be interested in working 
out a deal to buy it, but not to lease it ; if he wanted to lease it, for 
him to go ahead and lease it. After we looked the property over and 
drove around the island, we came back to the grove, to Mr. Iler's office. 
I sat with Hugh Culbreath in Mr. Iler's office. There were two pieces 
of equipment — I don't know what they amounted to, but evidently 
they were small. They may have been a shovel and a hoe, as far as 
I know, but there were two pieces of equipment that could not be 
located that showed on this list that he had. I sat in Mr. Iler's office 
when they closed the deal for $800 and some on those fixtures, and I 
imagine when Mr. Her signed the lease over to him. Mr. Her was a 
customer of Wilson & Co.'s and a man that I knew quite well. I 
visited with him when I first went in, then he and Hugh got into their 
transaction and I busied myself by looking at a magazine or something 
while they were transacting the business, because that was strictly 
between them. That was from Her to Mr. Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. Was Noah Caton along ? 

Mr. Westcott. No. I have heard that name and I may have seen 
him, but, to my knowledge, I never met Mr. Caton. 

Mr. Rice. Go ahead. 

Mr. Westcott. Mr. Culbreath told me that he was going to set up 
Mr. Caton in some way, somewhow, in this thing. I, of course, was 
not interested in it, because the only thing that I was interested into 
was if the thing could be bought and if we could handle the deal. 

Mr. Rice. At this stage, when you looked at it, Culbreath told you 
he was going to set up Caton in some way ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. On that property? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. Caton came into the proposition the day I 
drove over there with him to look at it and to help him make an inven- 
tory. It wasn't long — I don't have any idea whether it was 2 weeks 
or 6 weeks — that Culbreath and I came together at a Shrine meeting or 
on the street, or he in my office or me in his office. He told me that 
this deal didn't look so good; that he had set this fellow Caton up 
over there and that Caton was constantly running to him, wanting 
money to operate the business there, and that there had been no agree- 
ment, and that it had been his intention not to finance the thing, but 
he thought Caton could finance the business himself, evidently. I, 
of course, was sympathetic, but I was not too interested. I told him, 
I said, "Well, have you given any thought or have you checked into 
it to find out whether you can buy it or not?" I don't know whether 
it was at that conversation that he said he had talked with the owner 
of the property, or whether he said he was going to contact the owner 
of the property. Anyway, he did come to me and tell me he thought 
that the thing could be closed at $16,000; that he had talked to this 
man Zekosky, or whatever his name was; that he had talked to him. 
He said he was quite hard to understand and that he believed that it 
could be bought for $16,000. I said to him, "Well, how does he want to 
sell the thing? Can we buy the thing on terms, can we buy it on a 



ORGANIZED CHIMB IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 113 

contract, or how?" He said, "How would you like to buy it?" I 
said, "Well, I would prefer to buy it on terms if we can." 

He went back to Zekosky and came back and reported to me that 
Zekosky wanted $17,000 for the property, and Zekosky apparently 
hadn't made up his mind whether he wanted to trade or what he 
wanted. I told him, "Why don't you try to get him to take you to his 
attorney or you pet an attorney and get him in there and get some- 
thing: done, something definite on this,*' and, to the best of my knowl- 
edge he — either Zekosky made an appointment with an attorney m 
St. Petersburg by the name of Ramsure, or Culbreath made an appoint- 
ment for Zekosky— whether all three of them were present at the 
meeting or not I don't know, but out of that meeting I» was advised 
that it^looked as though there were other people interested in this 
thing and the price was going up, and then they wanted $19,000 for 
the property. I said, "Well, Hugh, I'm not interested in bidding 
against anybody to buy a piece of property. If they've got a piece 
of property to sell and we can get a price we can deal with them, but 
if we can't, let's skip it.'' So we skipped it. 

Mr. Rice. In your talk, your negotiations, what were you to put up 
and what was Culbreath to put up? 

Mr. Wescott. There was no deal worked out at that time. 
Mr. Rice. You were just talking? 

Mr. Wescott. That's right, because no deal was worked out and we 
skipped the deal at that time. Culbreath and I were interested into 
a plant here in Tampa called Vernor's Ginger Ale plant. 

Mr. Rice. You say you skipped the deal at that time. What hap- 
pened to the deal '. " Isn't this the deal where Caton contracted to 

pay 

Mr. Wescott. I don't know anything about Caton contracting to 
buy. I had no dealings with Caton and no dealings with Ramsure. 
My dealings were all with Hugh Culbreath. 
Mr. Rice. Go on to the ginger ale. 

Mr. Wescott. So far as the fish house was concerned the deal was 
over, it was passe. In 1945 I got a franchise to bottle Vernor's ginger 
ale in Tampa. I went out and got assignments to sell stock and sold 
stock to a group of my friends, of whom Hugh Culbreath was one. 
Mr. Rice. Did it cost you any money to get that franchise ? 
Mr. Wescott. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. How much did you put up? 
Mr. Wescott. I believe I put up $1,000. 
Mr. Rice. Go ahead. 

Mr. Wescott. Prior to putting up the money for the franchise, 
when I was assured that I was going to get the franchise, I had 
gotten a group of fellows together. They said, "Dave, if you want 
to start a ginger ale business, we don't know anything about the bot- 
tling business, but we'll go in with you." If you ever lived in Detroit, 
Vernor's ginger ale is an outstanding drink up there and, from all 
appearances, does a tremendous business. I liked the drink and 
thought it could be sold anywhere, so I sold stock to my friends. Hugh 
Culbreath was one of them. 

Mr. Rice. How much stock did he take? 

Mr. Wescott. I'm not certain. I believe that originally I wanted 
Hindi to take $10,000 worth. He told me that he would try to take 



114 ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

$10,000, but I believe that he originally put up $5,000 and later came 
in for an additional amount of, maybe, $3,000 or $3,500. 

Mr. Rice. So he had a total of somewhere around either $8,000 or 
$9,000? 

Mr. Wescott. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Did he take it all at that time ? 

Mr. Wescott. You say did he take it all at that time '. 

Mr. Rice. Yes ; did he take the stock at that time ? 

Mr. Wescott. The stock was issued to him, $5,000, and whenever 
the additional was put up. I don't believe the stock was issued to him 
on the same day that he put up the money. 

Mr. Rice. ,Between the time you were negotiating for the Her 
place and the time you ultimately got it 

Mr. Wescott. We were already in the Vernor's ginger ale business. 

Mr. Rice. This goes back before that ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How far back? 

Mr. Wescott. Before the Her business ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Wescott. I would say 6 to 9 months. 

Mr. Rice. Who did Culbreath pay for that stock in the ginger ale ? 

Mr. Wescott. Paid the secretary who at that time was Joe S. 
Adams, I am sure that Joe S. Adams was secretary at that time. 

Mr. Rice. Are you still an officer of that company % 

Mr. Wescott. That company has deceased. 

Mr. Rice. Defunked? 

Mr. Wescott. No; it is still operating. We sold it back to the 
parent company. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, do you know whether Culbreath paid in cash 
or by check for that stock? 

Mr. Wescott. I do not know. 

Mr. Rice. But it was paid at the time, there was no amortization? 

Mr. Wescott. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. All right, now. Let's get back to the Her property. 

Mr. Wescott. Why we got interested in Hers property again we 
started to operate and certainly after we got in operation they ad- 
vised me that we were selling everything and I know my friends were 
complaining that they would go to the plant and could not get ginger 
ale, didn't have any to sell them. In other words, you would go down 
there in the afternoon and everything bottled was out on the trucks 
and the trucks would come back empty, but we were losing money, 
and this was my proposition. I did not take an active part in the 
company. We hired a man by the name of Don McKay, and set him 
up as general manager and executive vice president, I believe was his 
title, to operate the ginger ale business as he pleased ; he had had ex- 
perience along that line. I had none and neither had any of my other 
associates. We are all business and professional men in other lines. 
Now, when I left for my vacation of that } 7 ear I went down and went 
over the records and they didn't look good and I was worried about 
the good. It was my proposition and I talked to friends in the com- 
munity, and when I come back from my vacation I went and looked 
at the records again and they were even worse than when I left. So 
I started out trying to get someone who might come in and make me 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 115 

a proposition and I could go and tell the officers and my associates in 
the outfit that proposition was a bad one due to the fact of the limi- 
tations. We could have made money if we could have gotten - 

Mr. Rice. Let's stop there a minute and let's see if^we cant get 
to the real reason or the real transaction where the Iler's property- 
it is all very interesting about the goings-on in the company and the 
negotiations, but we are interested at the moment in 

Mr. Wescott. All right, I went to Red Italiano to try to sell him 
our company down there. 

Mr. Rice. You went to Italiano? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And your property, what are you speaking about now i 

Mr. Wescott. This ginger ale plant. 

ATr Rice Yes* the r>lant? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. The plant, due to the fact that it was my under- 
standing he did a large business in bottling wine. I went to him, 
called him, asked him for an appointment, went out to see him, and 
told him about the piece of property and told him approximately 
what I thought we had invested at that time, and I wanted him to 
think it over, take it over, lock, stock, and barrel. 

Mr. Rice. Did you know he had a criminal record? 

Mr. Wescott. 1 am not certain whether I knew it at that time or 
not. All I knew was that he was, as far as I knew, and I was sur- 
prised when the deal was closed, I thought, perhaps, he was president 
of that outfit out there. When I had heard of Anthony Distributors, 
I had heard of Red Italiano. I figured that he was accepted by the 
State of Florida, by the Government, because I believe you have to 
be in that kind of business. I went to him and had a conversation 
and I told him the piece of property, the practice we had— decide 
to unload wine or beer and the two-story building, a desirable piece 
of property, and in my opinion it was cheap for what we had invested 
in the premises, and he told me that he would go by and take a look 
at it. I asked him if he wouldn't go down with me and look the plant 
over, and he said no ; the first time he had an opportunity he would 
go by and look at it. One of the employees advised me that he had 
been down some days later. 

Mr. Rice. Go ahead. 

Mr. Wescott. I contacted him and went back to see him again in 
his private office. I guess it was his — a little office off from his gen- 
eral office. I asked him if he had been down to see the property and 
he said yes, it was a desirable piece of property. In the meantime 

Mr. Ray Broavn. Did you know Red Italiano or had you ever met 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. ' I went back on this second trip and told him 
the Vernor Ginger Ale plant ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. I went back on this second trip and told him 
I understood he had been down to see it and he said "yes," and I said, 
"Well, let's sell it to you," well, he said, "I got to figure out the 
finances." During that conversation with him he told me that he 
was interested and he was going to have to do some checking and 
let me know. During that conversation I told him that I under- 
stood that he had bought the old fish house over on Pass-A-Grille, and 
I asked him what in the world he wanted with that property. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you understand that from? 



116 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Wescott. I am not certain. In all probability I saw it in a 
St. Petersburg newspaper. I get these papers from all over the trade 
area dne to the advertising in the newspapers. We advertise in the 
newspapers. However, I found it out. Now, whether Cnlbreath 
found it out first 

Mr. Rice. But yon understood it? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, and I advised him and asked him why in the 
world he wanted it and he told me that he had the distribution of 
beer and wine in Pinellas County and he had wanted it for a ware- 
house, and that since he had bought it the products that he handled 
had been further allocated, the allocation was cut down and it was 
going to be necessary for him to borrow money to build a — to re- 
model the place or to put up a suitable building and that when he 
had started to make inquiries for a loan for this thing that his officers 
just sat down on him and told him that they didn't have enough 
products to warrant the opening up of another warehouse, and that 
the property was going to be sold. I asked him what he wanted for 
the property and he said $19,000. Of course, that was the last price 
I heard and I asked if that was what he had paid for it and he said 
that was what he paid for it. I reported — up to this time I had not 
reported to Hugh Cnlbreath or to anyone that I had been out there 
and contacted Red Italiano. I did report then ; I came back and J 
told Hugh that I was out there and Red Italiano told me that this 
building was up for sale and Hugh asked me what I was doing out 
there. I told him I had gone out there to sell him this plant. He 
said, "Well, is he interested?" And I said, "He seems to be." 

He wants $19,000 for it and asked if he was interested and Hugh 
and I discussed it and about that time there was a lot of publicity 
floating around, they were going to open up some of these islands, I 
guess perhaps that are west of this particular piece of property, and 
if they did a bridge would go across right close to this property and 
naturally it would make it quite valuable. And Hugh said yes, he 
was interested if we could work out a deal. I went back to see Italiano 
and asked him what he — how he wanted to work the deal out and he 
said he wanted $19,000 cash. I said, "Well, you would take a check, 
wouldn't you ?" He said, "No ; I deal here in my business all cash and 
I want $19,000 cash," and I went back to Hugh and told Hugh and 
Hugh said, "Well, it's a darn good piece of property but I will have 
to see what — how much I can dig up. I don't know as I can dig up 
that much money or not." He reported back to me that he could raise 
approximately $7,000. I said, "Well, I will have to see what I can 
raise." I checked and found out that I could raise $12,000 and I 
asked Hugh if it was agreeable I would go back to Italiano and ask 
him to let me see the title on the property, the abstract, if he had the 
abstract. That was — I had seen other fellows around the office and 
I said hello to them when I went in and as to who they were, I didn't 
know. I met a man by the name of 

Mr. Rice. Let's get back to the purchase. Now, you checked to 
see. Where did you check to see where the $12,000 was coming from? 

Mr. Wescott. Checked my safe deposit box and I checked my 

Mr. Rice. You checked your safe deposit box and what else? 

Mr. Wescott. And my saving account. No, not my saving account. 
My safe. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IN INTERSTATE COMMERCEl 117 

Mr. Kick. For your cash? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now. this was 1946, '45 or '46? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And during the period from 1942 to 1946, what was your 
average income? 

Mr. Wescott. That I don't know. I imagine it was 

Mr. Rice. Do you have your tax returns with you ? 

Mr. Wescott/ I have got from '44 on. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately, what was it ? 

Mr. Wescott. $4,960. 

Mr. Rice. In 1944, you reported a gross income of $4,900. How 
about 1945? 

Mr. Wescott. In 1945, 1 reported a gross income of $5,191. 

Mr. Rice. $5,191. In 1944, did you have any other source of income 
other than your employment with Wilson Co. ? 

Mr Wescott. Nothing that I received any compensation for. 

Mr. Rice. So that 1944 and 1943, 1942, and 1941 and 1940, your mam 
source of income was from Wilson Co. and your average income then 
for those years would be four or five thousand dollars gross income. 
Now then, do you have a family ? 

Mr. Wescott. Have a wife. 

Mr. Rice. Have a wife. Any children ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice, Do you own a home ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you maintain the home? 

Mr. Wescott. I maintain the home. 

Mr. Rice. Automobile ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What kind? 

Mr. Wescott. Chevrolet, 

Mr. Rice. Chevrolet, what year? 

Mr. Wescott. I have got two. I have a 1949 and a 1950. 

Mr. Rice. All right now, in 1946, you checked and found $12,000 
that you could put into the Pass-a-Grille property. In 1942, you say 
you think you had to borrow something to get up 

Mr. Wescott. No ; I didn't have any intention to borrow. During 
these years in all probability I borrowed at the very minimum $25,000. 

Mr. Rice. Well, back in 1942, when you purchased the Gulf Stream 
stock you exhausted your supply in ready cash ? 

Mr. Wescott. No. 

Mr. Rice. You didn't? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You don't think you did ? 

Mr. Wescott. I know I didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you borrow money then ? 

Mr. Wescott. I never exhausted my cash. 

Mr. Rice. You just keep a limitless supply of cash ? 

Mr. Wescott. Not a limitless supply, but I always do keep cash. 

Mr. Rice. Well, it is a good practice if you can do it. My point is 
this, you then say that you expect us to go along with the idea— do 
you want to stand on that ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 



118 ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCEi 

Mr. Kay Brown. I do not think that is a fair way to question a wit- 
ness. We are up here and Mr. Wescott is up here to tell everything 
he knows of his business and every bit of help he can possibly give 
you. 

Senator Hunt. Let me say to counsel, I do not see that there is 
anything wrong with that line of questioning. The inference may 
not always be exactly proper. I might say that I follow the same 
principle, and borrow money while I have money on hand. That is 
the way I have always operated. But I think the question is appro- 
priate, and attempting to build up a foundation here for future ques- 
tions. I will try and be very fair in these questions, but I think that 
question is appropriate. 

Mr. Rice. Along that line, going back to 1937 when you had the 
$3,500 and came to Tampa, and you had an additional supply of money, 
where did that come from? 

Mr. Wescott. I was formerly in business in Scranton, Pa. I carried 
cash money to Detroit, Mich. I had to put it some place because I 
closed out of a business and the records will show very definitely 
that I was there in Detroit for 2 years. 

Mr. Rice. How old a man are you ? 

Mr. Wescott. 46 years old. 

Mr. Rice. And in Scranton where the accumulations were made 
they were products of your own efforts and you did not inherit any 
money and it was not given to you; the money was earned by 
you during your lifetime? 

Mr. Rat Brown. At what age did you start to work ? 

Mr. Wescott. I started to work when I was 15 years old. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you leave the business in Scranton ? 

Mr. Wescott. You take coal-mine strikes in that area, and big 
stores are going broke, and one store, I believe the name was Smith 
& Murphy. 

Mr. Rice. To make it short, things were going bad, the depression 
was on and it was getting a little tough and you were not showing a 
profit, were you ? 

Mr. Wescott. You are not showing a profit when customers are 
going broke. 

Mr. Rice. You sold out? 

Mr. Wescott. I didn't sell out. We liquidated. 

Mr. Rice. What did you take with you when you liquidated ? 

Mr. Wescott. I imagine my savings and what I could get out with. 
The best I remember I left there with $11,000. 

Mr. Rice. Coming back down to the $12,000 that you checked and 
located, that was put with the $7,000, making a total of $19,000, which 
was the purchase price from Italiano, and you then completed the 
transaction. There were no real estate men involved. Where was the 
closing of that deal ? 

Mr. Wescott. Right out in their office. 

Mr. Rice. In the Italiano office? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Were any deeds drawn ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who drew the deeds, if you know ? 

Mr. Wescott. That I don't know ; no, sir. All that I know is that 
on a previous trip I went down there and got the information and 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 119 

asked them if they had a title abstract and they told me the abstract 
was with a man named Ramsure, an attorney m St. Petersburg. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have the deed? Do you have access to it I 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You still have it ? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. It was taken in your name as an individual i 

Mr. Wescott. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And your wife ? 

Mr. Wescott. No. . 

Mr Rice What agreement did you have with Culbreath « 

Mr". Wescott. He had a $7,000 interest in it. I never tried to hide 

that. . 

Mr. Rice. Did vou have that m writing 4 

Mr Wescott. No, sir. His wife knows it ; my wite knows it, and 
everyone that is connected ; that is, there has never been anything done 

to try to hide it. 

Mr Rice. But suppose vou and your wife were wiped out here to- 
night, what evidence would Culbreath have of his interest m that 

Pr Mr F Wescott. Nothing, onlv the testimony of my friends and his 
friends that have heard me say. I told our attorney about the (jiilt- 
stream Race Track, that if anything ever did happen to me— that 
Hush Culbreath definitely had an interest. 

Mr. Rice. 'What is his name, your attorney? 

Mr. Wescott. W. G. Ward. 

Mr. Rice. Did you tell him to do anything with the Crultstream 
stock if anything happened to you ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. That is all handled in my and my wite s 
name' and Hush Culbreath has $7,000. 

Mr. Rice. Did you tell him about any other property that you held 
jointly with Culbreath that he should take care of ? 

Mr. Wescott. There is no other property. 

Mr. Rice. That is the only one? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right, now, since you took over the property, what 
has been done with it ? . , 

Mr. Wescott. Well, it has been arranged to— there is a couple ot 

apartments upstairs. 

Mr. Rice. Is it rental property? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What happens to the income ? 

Mr. Wescott. The income since 1948 has come to me. I have the 
statement here. 

Mr. Rice. It goes to you. 

Mr. Wescott. It comes to me since 

Mr. Rice. Who handles the property for you as agent? 

Mr. Wescott. A firm called Roughgarden. 

Mr. Rice. And Roughgarden handles the rent for you as it comes 

in? 

Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you disperse any to Culbreath? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And what does he get for his $7,000 ? 



120 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Wescott. I handle the property and he gets nothing for his 
$7,000. It is very small. 

Mr. Rice. It does draw rent? 

Mr. Wescott. It is very small. 

Mr. Rice. What is the rent? Approximately what is the rent? 

Mr. Wescott. Oh, it will run anywhere from $50 to, I guess, $160. 
It won't average $100 a month. 

Mr. Ray Brown. Here is his statement by years. 

Mr. Wescott. You might show him that second one there. 

Mr. Rice. Now, there has been introduced here during the day a 
copy of the tax records of that property. It seems to be assessed 
against Culbreath. How does that happen ? 

Mr. Wescott. When we bought the property we got the taxes — 
in other words, the deal was that we were to pay the delinquent taxes. 
Culbreath was given the deed to take to Pinellas County to have it 
recorded, and certainly, if you or anybody else was trying to hide 
anything and you were trying to stay out of the deal, you certainly 
would not go to a place of record like a courthouse to record a deed 
in my name, in which you might become involved ; so, definitely, 
when the deed was recorded, Hugh Culbreath recorded the deed. He 
carried the deed over there and came back and when he came to report 
it I asked him how much stamps he*wanted to put on it and, I don't 
know, they tell me that some of the property they put about twice 
as much stamps as they are supposed to put. He carried it back at a 
later date and had it recorded and then turned it over to me. 

Mr. Rice. He has paid the taxes? 

Mr. Wescott. He has; yes, sir. He paid them in the beginning 
because I went to him and I said, if this thing is in the hole and they 
want to make a mortgage we have some taxes, and he said, "Give me 
the taxes, and I will pay the thing," and I could pay him back. 

Mr. Rice. You put up $12,000 and bought the property, and he put 
up $7,000 and bought the property and you take all of it and he pays 
the taxes and he has nothing to show for it. Is that a fair statement ? 

Mr. Wescott. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What is wrong with it ? 

Mr. Wescott. You just didn't let me go far enough, that is all. 

Mr. Rice. It seems to me you are going pretty far. 

Mr. Wescott. I am willing to quit any time you are. I will be glad 
to explain. [Laughter.] 

Senator Hunt. Just 1 minute. The committee will take, at this 
time, a 10-minute recess. 

(Recess had.) 

Senator Hunt. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Paul Giglio. Is he present — Paul Giglio? Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you will give this Committee will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Giglio. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL GIGLIO, TAMPA, PLA. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Giglio, will you give your name and address for 
the record? 

Mr. Giglio. My name is Paul Giglio, 1310 Eighteenth Avenue. 
Mr. Rice. In Tampa? 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 121 

Mr. Giglio. Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. You are appearing here in response to a subpena winch 
has been served on you ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you lived around Tampa, Mr. Giglio* 

Mr. Giglio. I was born in Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. You were born in Tampa ? 

Mr.. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is your present business ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I am in the hardware business now. 

Mr. Rice. With whom are you associated in the hardware business ? 

Mr. Giglio. Frank Morales. 

Mr. Rice. You have been around Tampa all your life ? 

Mr. Giglio. I was born here and I have always been here : yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, going back before you were in the hardware busi- 
ness, were you in the bolita business? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When did you start? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, in 1942, around that. 

Mr. Rice. About 1942? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Were you assocated with Morales m the bolita business i 

Mr. Giglio. Not all the time. He went to the Army and I was 
selling by myself. 

Mr. Rice. In the bolita business what did you do? 

Mr. Giglio. I used to sell bolita to customers, meet them on the 
street. 

Mr. Rice. Did vou back it yourself ? 

Mr. Giglio. No, sir; I used to sell for the syndicate. 

Mr. Rice. Who backed you ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, the first one that I used to sell for was Frank 
Pardo, and he died; then I was selling for Sam Lumia and Primo 
Lazzara. 

Mr. Rice. Sam Lumia? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Was he a brother of Jimmy Lumia ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes; that's right. 

Mr. Rice. Where is Sam Lumia now ? 

Mr. Giglio. I don't know. I heard he was in the hospital. 

Mr. Rice. In Tampa or in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Giglio. He's not in Tampa, no. 

Mr. Rice. He is in Los Angeles, is he not ? 

Mr. Giglio. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You heard he was in the hospital ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's what I heard. 

Mr. Rice. Then who did you sell for? 

Mr. Giglio. Then I was selling for Jimmy Velasco and Friscia. 
They worked together. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy Velasco? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where is he now ? 

Mr. Giglio. He is dead. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the other one ? 

Mr. Giglio. Gus Friscia. 



122 ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Rice. Where is he now ? 

Mr. Giglio. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. For the record, I might state that Gus Friscia is an 
individual who we have found it has been impossible to reach with 
a supena. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Giglio. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any idea where he could be found? 

Mr. Giglio. Not at all. 

Mr. Rice. In connection with your activities as a bolita peddler or 
operator, were you ever arrested ? 

Mr. Giglio. Many times. 

Mr. Rice. Many times? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How many times ? 

Mr. Giglio. I can't count them, but I have been arrested many times, 
by the city and the county. 

Mr. Rice. What years did that cover? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I believe the last time was 2 years ago or more, 
right after they killed Jim. 

Mr. Rice. Two years ago ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Well, would you say 2 or 3 or 4 times or 8 or 10 or 15 
times ? What would it be ? 

Mr. Giglio. It would be about 8 or 10 times. 

Mr. Rice. Eight or ten times ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When you were arrested for bolita what became of it? 
Were you sent to jail? 

Mr. Giglio. They usually sent a bondsman and put up the bond. 

Mr. Rice. Who sent the bondsman? 

Mr. Giglio. The banker. 

Mr. Rice. Whoever the banker was sent the bondsman? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What happened? 

Mr. Giglio. He bailed me out. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go to jail later? 

Mr. Giglio. No. 

Mr. Rice. What happened ? 

Mr. Giglio. He just forfeited the bond, some way or another. 

Mr. Rice. So you never have spent any time in jail as a result of 
that? 

Mr. Giglio. No. 

Mr. Rice. On these bond forfeitures you put a bond up and they 
would forfeit it. What would happen to that money ? 

Mr. Giglio. It would go on into the — a bondsman would come and 
the banker would give him the money, and you are supposed to appear 
on such a date, and you don't appear. 

Mr. Rice. They wouldn't come back and look for you again; they 
would just take the money. Is that it ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. When you first started in the bolita business, how did 
they select the number? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, at that time there used to be nightly drawings 
in Cuba, and it would come out on the radio every night. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 123 

Mr. Rice. It came out on the radio ? 

Mr. Gigljo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. The number on the throwing? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. On a local station ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know which one? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I don't remember the name. There was two. 

Mr. Rice. What did they broadcast? 

Mr. Giglio. There used to be a regular throwing. 

Mr. Rice. Would they say, "The result of the throwing tonight is 
No. 84"? 

Mr. Giglio. No. There is three numbers they call. 

Mr. Rice. They would just say that? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Make that announcement ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right, one after another. 

Mr. Rice. How did the throwing take place? Where did that 
happen ? 

Mr. Giglio. I don't know — in Cuba. I've never been there. 

Mr. Rice. It happened down in Cuba and you got it up from there ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did there come a time when they selected the number, 
when the selection of the number was made here in town by cards or 
otherwise? 

Mr. Giglio. They used to have it by the race-track results, and then 
they had it with cards. 

Mr. Rice. How did the card thing work ? 

Mr. Giglio. They get a hundred cards, from 1 to 100. They put 
them on a board and the customers look at the board. They want to 
be sure that all the numbers are on the board. Then they shuffle the 
cards out and they pick one from the crowd and he sticks a plastic 
knife in and they reach for the card, and that is the first number. 

Mr. Rice. Then someone else sticks the knife 

Mr. Giglio. Then they picked another fellow to stick the knife for 
the second number. 

Mr. Rice. You say they picked one from the crowd. What crowd ? 

Mr. Giglio. The spectators. 

Mr. Rice. Where would they be gathered ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, at different places. 

Mr. Rice. Where would that be ? In a store ? 

Mr. Giglio. No ; in a cover shop. 

Mr. Rice. What? 

Mr. Giglio. Wherever they sold numbers. 

Mr. Rice. Did they use the same one all the time ? 

Mr. Giglio. No ; they used to have different places all the time. 

Mr. Rice. How long ago was that? 

Mr. Giglio. Up to the time they killed Jimmy Velasco. 

Mr. Rice. He was killed in 1948? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. Then it continued; then they stopped 
about 2 months after Jimmy Lumia was killed. 

Mr. Rice. Who would be allowed to see this cutting? 

Mr. Giglio. That was a public drawing. 

Mr. Rice. It was public? 



124 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Anybody could come and see it ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All the players who were playing knew about it, and 
knew where it was going to be ? 

Mr. Giglio. They passed the word around, "Tonight we are going 
to throw at such a place." 

Mr. Rice. That they were going to have a drawing at a certain 
place and the crowd would gather there? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did any police officers ever come around there? 

Mr. Giglio. No ; I never saw any there. 

Mr. Rice. How did they avoid that ? 

Mr. Giglio. I imagine it was fixed. 

Mr. Rice. Imagine what? 

Mr. Giglio. I imagine it was fixed so they wouldn't be around there. 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, being in it yourself, you knew that 
it was fixed, didn't you ? You knew they would not be expected ? 

Mr. Giglio. Of course. 

Mr. Rice. How did they arrange that? 

Mr. Giglio. It was so arranged from the office. 

Mr. Rice. From the office? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Of the banker or the backer? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who did they arrange that with? 

Mr. Giglio. The head of the syndicate fixed it up. 

Mr. Rice. Were you ever there when they made any of those ar- 
rangements f 

Mr. Giglio. No, never. 

Mr. Rice. What would happen when they would arrest you for 
that ? Would that be a mistake or was that also fixed ? 

Mr. Giglio. No. Sometimes it was fixed and sometimes — they got 
to pick up somebody, anyway, to make out a showing. 

Mr. Rice. When they want to make a showing, how do they ar- 
range that ? 

Mr. Giglio. They make it like they did the last time they arrested 
me. 

Mr. Rice. What was that last time ? 

Mr. Giglio. This K. C. Myers came with three deputies 

Mr. Rice. Deputy sheriffs? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. I was pulling out from the house to go 
to my place of business. They stopped me around the corner and they 
searched the truck, and K. C. Myers had a package in his hand 
wrapped up in newspaper, so I don't think anything. When we got 
to the county jail, he opened up the package and I saw three pads of 
bolita books, and I told him it was a frame-up. He told me to shut 
up, and they booked me for peddling. 

Mr. Rice. For what ? 

Mr. Giglio. Selling bolita. 

Mr. Rice. Did you pay a fine? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. They called the bondsman. 

Mr. Rice. They called him up? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 125 

Mr. Giglio. I did. I didn't have no banker, and I wasn't selling. 
I had to call somebody to get me out. 

Mr. Rice. Was there ever an arrest by prearrangement? Did you 
ever know you were going to be arrested beforehand, and submit to it? 

Mr. Giglio. The only thing, they come to my place of business and 
I wasn't selling. 

Mr. Rice. Before that, though, were there ever any times when they 
what you call stand a man out to be arrested 1 

Mr. Giglio. No. 

Mr. Rice. That didn't happen ? 

Mr. Giglio. No. 

Mr. Rice. Before Velasco was killed you said you were turning in 
to him ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right, 

Mr. Rice. He was the backer 1 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. That's who I was selling for all the 
time up to the day of the killing. 

Mr. Rice. Before that did you have any conversations with Sheriff 
Culbreath, who was then campaigning for reelection in 1948 ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you ? What did he say ? 

Mr. Giglio. He called me in the office 

Mr. Rice. Called you where \ 

Mr. Giglio. In his office. 

Mr. Rice. In his office \ 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, and he called me and my brother-in-law, Frank 
Morales, and told us to go straight and be sure that we go straight, 
because he heard different, that we were campaigning for the other 
fellow. 

Mr. Rice. He heard you were campaigning for the other fellow ? 

Mr. Giglio. He must have heard rumors, that's right. 

Mr. Rice. He told you to do what ? 

Mr. Giglio. To go straight, get in line. 

Mr. Rice. Get in line ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Then what? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I keep on the other fellow in the first primary, 
but in the second primary we switch to him. 

Mr. Rice. When you say "we switch," who is "we" ? 

Mr. Giglio. Jimmy and my brother-in-law. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy Velasco and you and Morales? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes." 

Mr. Rice. You switched then to Culbreath ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. When you switched did you do anything? Did you con- 
tribute to the campaign? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. Jimmy told us to take some money down to the 
sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy did what? 

Air. Giglio. He said to take $500 to the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Take $500 to the sheriff? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you do that I 

68958— 51— pt. la 9 



126 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When was that? 

Mr. Giglio. It was after the first primary. 

Mr. Rice. Where did the money come from? i 

Mr. Giglio. Out of the pot. 

Mr. Rice. From the pot ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Cash money? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you take it yourself ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who did you give it to? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I give it to him myself. Sy Young was present, 
and Frank Morales. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say when you did that ? 

Mr. Giglio. I just gave him the envelope. 

Mr. Rice. You just gave him the envelope? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say ? 

Mr. Giglio. He said, "It comes in handy," that's all. 

Mr. Rice. "It comes in handy" ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who was there with you at that time? 

Mr. Giglio. City Representative Sy Young. 

Mr. Rice. City Representative 

Mr. Giglio. Sy Young. 

Mr. Rice. Sy Young ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who else? 

Mr. Giglio. Frank Morales. 

Mr. Rice. Did you make any other contributions to the campaign? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, a few times — I believe a few days after that — I 
think it was a week or so — I took another $1,000. 

Mr. Rice. There was a reason why Velasco sent you down personally, 
wasn't there? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was it? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, they was picking on me all the time, and to keep 
suspicion away that we were working for the other fellow. 

Mr. Rice. They were picking on you because you were not in line? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean, picking on you ? 

Mr. Giglio. I got arrested all the time by the deputies. 

Mr. Rice. The deputies were harassing you ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. So this was to be a gesture that you were now in line? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, that we were taking care of his business. 

Mr. Rice. Who was it that you originally supported in the first 
primary? 

Mr. Giglio. Bill Myers. 

Mr. Rice. Bill Myers? 

Mr. Giglio. Bill Myers. 

Mr. Rice. Now, tell us about the delivering the rent ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME) IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 127 

Mr. Giglio. Well, every few weeks we used to go out of town, to 
Jacksonville, or Miami — — 

Mr. Rice (interrupting). Wait a minute now. Explain what the 
rent was first and how it happened. 

Mr. Giglio. He had a bunch of money put in an envelope, and he told 
me to take the rent to the old man. 

Mr. Rice. Now, this is Italiano talking? 

Mr. Giglio. No, it's Jimmy. 

Mr. Rice. Not Italiano. Jimmy Velasco. He told you to deliver 
the rent to the old man? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, that's right. 

Mr. Rice. When was that ? 

Mr. Giglio. That was a few days after the second primary. 

Mr. Rice. That would be the summer of 1948 ? 

Mr. Giglio. 1948 ? Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And Jimmy was getting ready to go out of town ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. And what did he tell you to do? 

Mr. Giglio. He told me to take it to the old man, but he didn't 
tell me the reason why. He didn't tell me why he wanted me to 
take the money. 

Mr. Rice. What did he give you ? 

Mr. Giglio. Some hundred dollar bills and some twenties, I imagine. 
It wasn't a big lot of money. 

Mr. Rice. How much money was it ? 

Mr. Giglio. $1,000. 

Mr. Rice. How much ? 

Mr. Giglio. $1,000 is what he said it was. 

Mr. Rice. Did you help him count the money ? 

Mr. Giglio. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Did — it was handed to you. You know it was a thou- 
sand dollars ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's what he said it was. 

Mr. Rice. Was anyone else there ? 

Mr. Giglio. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. He told you to take the rent to the old man ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, who was the old man ? 

Mr. Giglio. The sheriff. He told me to take it to the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. He told you to take it to the sheriff % 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, how often was the rent paid ? 

Mr. Giglio. I don't know how often. But the money was going 
out faster than it was coming in. 

Mr. Rice. It was going out faster than it was coming in. Was that 
the usual weekly rent that you were taking down ? 

Mr. Giglio. I can't say whether it was weekly or not. He was 
paid a lot of money every week. 

Mr. Rice. He was paid a lot of money every week ? 

Mr. Giglio. Everything worked out for the campaign and graft. 
I know that. 

Mr. Rice. Now, in your participation with Velasco, did you get 
part of the proceeds ? How were you paid ? 



128 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCEi 

Mr. Giglio. I was just making a small percentage of what I used 
to sell. 

Mr. Rice. Of what you sold ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you share in the pot? 

Mr. Giglio. I don't think anybody shared in that, because there 
wasn't anything left. Everything was going out. 

Mr. Rice. Where was it going? 

Mr. Giglio. To the campaign. 

Mr. Rice. To the campaign. 

Mr. Giglio. State and local campaigns. 

Mr. Rice. Who else's campaign was it going to ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, the Governor's. Some was going there, too. 

Mr. Rice. Did you say what? 

Mr. Giglio. The State campaign. 

Mr. Rice. The State campaign. Well, some of that was campaign 
and some of that was rent. Now, this time you took the rent down, 
did you go by yourself ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. And what happened? 

Mr. Giglio. I went to the back there, around to the side. 

Mr. Rice. Where? 

Mr. Giglio. To the office he has got in back. 

Mr. Rice. In the jail? 

Mr. Giglio. At the jail house. 

Mr. Rice. At the jail? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. He has got an office in the back. 

Mr. Rice. At whose office in the back ? 

Mr. Giglio. The sheriff's office. 

Mr. Rice. What happened? 

Mr. Giglio. Nothing. 

Mr. Rice. Was he there? 

Mr. Giglio. Sure. 

Mr. Rice. Was anyone else there? 

Mr. Giglio. I imagine some deputies were around there. Not in- 
side of the office. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do when you got in there? 

Mr. Giglio. Just gave him the envelope. 

Mr. Rioe. Was anything written on the envelope? What did you 
say? 

Mr. Giglio. "Jimmy sent you this." 

Mr. Rice. What did he say? 

Mr. Giglio. He said okay. 

Mr. Rice. Okay. Now, in Italiano's office or headquarters did it 
ever happen that other bolita bankers met there for conferences of 
any kind ? 

Mr. Giglio. I imagine there was a headquarters but I have never 
been there. I heard Jimmy say at one time they used to go there and 
have meetings, and they had lots of meetings there with the boys. I 
never went there myself. 

Mr. Rice. A lot of meetings with the boys. Who did he mean by 
the boys ? 

Mr. Giglio. The syndicate. All the rest of the bankers would get 
together. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IK INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 129 

Mr. Rice. What did they talk about ? 

Mr. Giglio. Rearranging things. 

Mr. Rioe. What kind of things? 

Mr. Giglio. Oh, I imagine the gamblers, who is going to get this 
part and the other part, 

Mr. Rice. Who is going to have what territory and what peddler* 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Now, going back to these rental payments, how long 
were you with Jimmy and his organization ? 

Mr. Giglio. We were about 3 weeks or 4 weeks before the first pri- 
mary. He had a fight with his partner, Friscia. Then he went in by 
himself. Then he came to see us, to get with him to go into business. 
He was going to do business and politics and so on, and I started from 
then on. 

Mr. Rice. So you switched over with Jimmy ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. From that time on until his death you were associated 
with him? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Did the sheriff ever participate in any of these meetings 
that they had? 

Mr. Giglio. I can't say. 

Mr. Rice. Did they ever go down and have a meeting in the sheriff's 
office? 

Mr. Giglio. They used to go there a lot 

Mr. Rice (interrupting). Did you ever take Jimmy down or go 
down with him ? 

Mr. Giglio. No, sir. He used to have a chauffeur who would take 
him down. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy used to have a chauffeur who would take him 
down ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. To the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Giglio. Not to the sheriff's office. He had a chauffeur himself. 

Mr. Rice. Was his chauffeur his bodyguard ? 

Mr. Giglio. An employee. I don't believe it was a bodyguard. 

Mr. Rice. I don't believe so either, the w T ay it ended up. Now then, 
why was Jimmy killed ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I imagine he was too popular in politics. He had 
a lot of sympathy to it and they were afraid he was getting too 
popular, and he could switch the election he wanted. In other words, 
he would carry a lot of votes. 

Mr. Rice. He swung the ballots of control. He was the pivot ? 

Mr. Giglio. That's right. He was the balance. 

Mr. Rice. Now, who was against him ? 

Mr. Giglio. What do you mean ? 

Mr. Rice. Well, he was in control. Who was the minority who 
was against him, that would want to see him out of business? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I don't know. He had a fight with some of those 
boys who were in the gambling. I don't know which ones, which ones 
were his enemies. They had a bunch of them. 

Mr. Rice. Do you think it is possible that one of his boys did the 
job? 



130 ORGANIZED CRIME! IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I can't say who would have done it because I 
don't know. It was along those lines. 

Mr. Rice. What is your idea about that ? Do you think it was out- 
of-town men that were brought in ? 

Mr. Giglio. It may have been. I don't know. It might have been 
an inside job. 

Mr. Rice. Well, you knew that these men would customarily meet 
in another city, like New Orleans, did you not? Some would go over 
there ? 

Mr. Giglio. I have heard about it. 

Mr. Rice. You heard they met over there. And after they would 
meet, would anything happen? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, it used to. Somebody would get bumped off. 

Mr. Rice. Once in awhile somebody would be bumped off. So 
that you associated the meetings with the bumping off. In other 
words, you think they met over there and discussed it and came 
back and a man would be liquidated ? 

Mr. Giglio. That is what the general rumor was because every 
time they would meet somebody would be bumped off. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you were in business before you. went with Velasco, 
were you not ? 

Mr. Giglio. I was in the hardware business. 

Mr. Rice. And you were in the bolita business ? 

Mr. Giglio. Both. 

Mr. Rice. Now, in operating, how did you arrange for your protec- 
tion then before you went with Jimmy ? 

Mr. Giglio. I was protected with him. He was furnishing the 
protection. 

Mr. Rice. But before that, before that ? 

Mr. Giglio. Before I used to sell for him I was protected by the 
other people, the one I was selling for. 

Mr. Rice. And how did they do that ? 

Mr. Giglio. They never told me how they did it. They never told 
me how they did it, but I imagine they did it through the officials. 

Mr. Rice. Did they tell you they were doing it? 

Mr. Giglio. Naturally. 

Mr. Rice. They told you. they would take care of the protection. 
They mentioned who the officials were, did they ? 

Mr. Giglio. They had connections with the mayor. They had con- 
nections with the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Who ? The mayor ? 

Mr. Giglio. The mayor, and the sheriff. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. How about the chief of police ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I imagine he was in there, too. 

Mr. Rice. I think you can come a little closer to it than that. You 
are a man who helped jeopardize his existence by acting as a bolita 
peddler. You had to know how you were protected, how your pro- 
tection was arranged and how good it was and from whom you were 
protected. What did they tell you as to how they would take care 
of that? Did they put your name on a list and say, "They won't 
bother you" ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, that is the trouble. Some of them thev used to 
lay them off of the list and some they would put them on. They were 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 131 

picking on me because I used to oppose them all the time, in all of 
these elections. 

Mr. Rice. Going back to the time you first started in the bolita busi- 
ness, as far as you were concerned, was protection always paid by 
someone ? 

Mr. Giglio. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. There never was a time when they did not have protec- 
tion ? 

Mr. Giglio. Sometimes the lid was off and they were supposed to 
lay off and not give the ticket. 

Mr. Rice. Why would the lid go on ? 

Mr. Giglio. Sometimes they would get rough, sometimes the news- 
papers and some kind of an investigation. 

Mr. Rice. A committee ? 

Mr. Giglio. A committee, and there you are, no tickets. 

Mr. Rice. When someone would be murdered, as frequently hap- 
pened, would they stop the bolita for a while ? 

Mr. Giglio. It didn't stop with him, he would keep on. 

Mr. Rice. He would keep right on but sometimes it would be a 
different deal ? 

Mr. Giglio. That is right, 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Giglio, will you describe in detail what you 
mean by "paying the rent" ? 

Mr. Giglio. I presume that is the protection or the graft you paid 
for operating. 

Senator Hunt. Can you tell us approximately, over how long a 
period of time this "rent" was paid to the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I couldn't tell you because I didn't stay long 
enough. I didn't stay but 6 months with him and then he was killed. 

Senator Hunt. Was the rent paid prior to the 6 months that you 
speak of, before he was killed, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Giglio. He was paying all of the time, I think. A lot of money 
was going out continually every day, unless a bad number came out, 
and naturally, there was no money in the pot. 

Senator Hunt. I understand you personally delivered two pay- 
ments, one of $500 and one of $1,000, is that correct ? 

Mr. Giglio. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. You mentioned that possibly some of that went up 
into a higher level of government than the sheriff. Would you care 
to give any comment on that ? 

Mr. Giglio. The rest of the money ? 

Senator Hunt. No. What part of the thousand dollars, if any, to 
your knowledge, got by the sheriff up into a higher level of 
government ? 

Mr. Giglio. Well, I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. We will excuse you now. 

(Witness excused.) 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Girth C. Clarkson. Are you Mr. Clarkson? 

Mr. Clarkson. I am. 

Senator Hltnt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Clarkson. I do. 



132 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMME'RCE. 

TESTIMONY OF GIRTH C. CLARKSON, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. I should like to make an announcement, that the 
committee is now in communication with Mr. Garcia, who advises that 
he will appear tomorrow as a witness, coming to the meeting from the 
hospital. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Clarkson, will you give the reporter your name and 
address ? 

Mr. Clarkson. G. C. Clarkson, 3007 Stovall Street, Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. You are appearing here in response to a subpena served 
upon you ? 

Mr. Clarkson. I am. 

Mr. Rice. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Clarkson. I am a salesman at present. 

Mr. Rice. For whom ? 

Mr. Clarkson. The American Cooking Utensil Co. 

Mr. Rice. Before that, what job did you have, Mr. Clarkson? 

Mr. Clarkson. Well, prior to that I guess I was in the sheriff's office 
for 3 years from 1943 — 1944 — '45 to '48. I believe it was. 

Mr. Rice. You were a clerk in the sheriff's office ? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir. At the jail. 

Mr. Rice. From 1943 to 1948 ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Three years— 1948, 1947— it was 1945. 

Mr. Rice. 1945 until 1948 ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And then you were under Sheriff Culbreath? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Were you in the civil or criminal division ? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir ; I was just a clerk in the jail. 

Mr. Rice. Will you tell us what you know about Briggs & Co. ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Personally, I don't know anything about Briggs & 
Co. myself. 

Mr. Rice. What happened around the jail about Briggs & Co. ? 

Mr. Clarkson. I don't know. I just heard some of the people 
speak of Briggs & Co., but I don't know what they meant. I was told 
you were supposed to play some kind of bets around there. 

Mr. Rice. Someone could play some kind of bets there ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. It was next door. It was not in my office. 

Mr. Rice. In the next office ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Now that is just hearsay on my part. 

Mr. Rice. Someone told you? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Some of the deputies or other employees ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did they tell you ? 

Mr. Clarkson. One person asked me if I wanted to make a bet on 
some race or something, and I said, no, and they said I could make it. 
That is all I know. 

Mr. Rice. You could make a bet right there in the jail ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did Briggs & Co. have to do with that? 

Mr. Clarkson. I don't know. I will have to admit that I don't 
know. That is just hearsay on my part. I was told that you could 
do that. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IK INTERSTATE COMMENCE 133 

Mr. Rice. Was Briggs & Co. in any way connected with this facility 
in placing bets? t . . 

Mr Clarkson. I don't know because I never did do any betting. 
That is just what I heard operated next door. I did hear the jailer, 
Mr Riles, mention Briggs & Co. gave some presents out one Christ- 
mas They didn't amount to much. They asked me if I never heard 
of Briggs & Co., and I told them I hadn't. So it must have existed 

Mr. Rice. Briggs & Co. was the name used to cover the gambling 
activitv in the jail? . 

Mr. Clarkson. I would have to infer that. That is all. 

Mr. Rice. That was the inference that you received? 

Mr. Clarkson. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. When you say next door, you mean m the same building, 
but in another room ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. sir. Thev have two offices there. 

Mr. Rice. Now, tell us about the practice of booking people who 
were arrested, bringing in these gamblers on arrest cases ; did you have 
anything to do with the booking ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What were some of your observations of some practices 

there ? 

Mr. Clarkson. There were a number of gambling places operating, 
so I understand from the records, like Port Tampa, Seffner, and 
Sulphur Springs, and all around outside, and the procedure was, 
so I was told, that some fellow down in Port Tampa might operate 
a small gambling place. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. . . 

Mr. Clarkson. And he wanted to keep m operation, so he would 
send five men to the county jail and book them. 

Mr. Rice. You say he sent them up ? 

Mr. Clarkson. That is what I observed one night. I saw them get 
out of the car. 

Mr. Rice. The gamblers got out of the car ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Was there any officer with them ? 

Mr. Clarkson. A deputy brought them in. A few minutes before 
I had seen him around the jail, so he could not have had time to go 
to Port Tampa and bring them in. 

Mr. Rice. How far is Port Tampa? 

Mr. Clarkson. Nine miles. 

Mr. Rice. And inside of a few minutes you saw him around the 
jail, and in another few minutes you saw him there with five gamblers ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir, that is right. They were not all gamblers. 
They had a peculiar way of booking them. One would be charged 
with vagrancy and the other gambling and the other booked for some- 
thing else. Of course, they had to put two down for gambling, because 
you can't gamine by yourself. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. Clarkson. Because you can't — a man can't gamble by himself. 

Mr. Rice. Every time they brought in one, they had to bring in 
two? 

Mr. Clarkson. They would charge two with gambling and the other 
three with three little offenses. 



134 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Rice. And what would these people that came in with them, 
what would they do, post a bond ? 

Mr. Clarkson. We were told that in a few minutes the man who 
operated the place would send up $100 and we would release them on 
a $20 bond. 

Mr. Rice. You were told that he would send that ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you release them before you got it ? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir, they would send the money up there and 
we would make the bond and release them. 

Mr. Rice. You would not lock them up ? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You would keep them until the bond got there ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Then what happened? 

Mr. Clarkson. If I am not mistaken, I think one night it was 
about 8 : 30, and by 9 o'clock they had brought in six from Seffner, 
and that is 11 miles out, and I figure it is a physical impossibility for 
a man to bring in five men from Port Tampa at 8 : 30 and at about 
9 o'clock from Seffner, which is about 11 miles out. The worst thing 
about this is mileage. It is charged up three ways. 

Mr. Rice. How is that? 

Mr. Clarkson. I don't know why. That is the way it is. It is 11 
miles out there and 12% cents a mile. 

Mr. Rice. How would they charge the mileage? 

Mr. Clarkson. That is figured into the rpcord, I suppose. 

Mr. Rice. And who received the money for the mileage? 

Mr. Clarkson. I don't know. Of course, when the bond was put 
up, it was generally estreated. None of these fellows ever would 
go in court. 

Mr. Rice. I understand you, when a deputy would go some place 
11 miles away and bring in a prisoner, that he would charge 33 miles? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How do you account for that ? 

Mr. Clarkson. I couldn't tell you that. 

Mr. Rice. How did they account for it? 

Mr. Clarkson. That is what I was told. I think they charged 
around $7 apiece. I don't know how it is broken up. 

Mr. Rick. As a matter of fact, in many cases, it was a physical 
impossibility for the deputy to have gone that far, and back, in the 
time? 

Mr. Clarkson. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Where did the sheriff and the deputy sheriff get the 
gasoline? 

Mr. Clarkson. They have a pump there and they get the gasoline 
from different stations. They rotate that, I believe. 

Mr. Rice. And is the gasoline supplied to the cars? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And it is charged to the sheriff's or the county's account? 

Mr. Clarkson. The deputies all get their gasoline for nothing. 
I guess. That is the way they work it. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Rice. They do not pay for the gasoline? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir. The sheriff furnishes it. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IK INTERSTATE COMMERCE 135 

Mr. Eice. In addition to the gasoline, 7 cents a mile for more miles 
than actually traveled is charged; is that right? 

Mr. Clarkson. I suppose so. 

Mr. Rice. Suppose the deputy or the sheriff were going on a long 
trip, is it customary to use that gasoline? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. I wouldn't want to say. I don't know. I 
don't know that. 

Mr. Rice. Did it ever come to your attention that the sheriff or any 
of his deputies had loaded up on gasoline and was going out of the 
State? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir ; I couldn't say so. 

Mr. Rice. During the time that you were employed there, did you 
come to know permanent gamblers in Tampa? 

Mr. Clarkson. Well, I couldn't say that I do. I was told once 
in a while a fellow would come down there to put up bond and a fellow 
would say he was so-and-so, but I have even forgotten the names of 
them. 

Mr. Rice. Who would say he was "so-and-so"? 

Mr. Clarkson. Somebody told me he was such-and-such a man, but 
I would not pay much attention to them. 

Mr. Rice. I am talking about the top-flight gamblers. 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. To see them around the jail there? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever see the sheriff in conversation with any? 

Mr. Clarkson. I couldn't say that I ever did. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about the time when you had a conversation with 
Deputy Myers about making a statement, and booking someone. 

Mr. "Clarkson. That was just a little bit funny. He brought some 
old fellow in there one night, and he was booking him and was going 
to charge him with an affray : and I knew the old fellow was too old 
and sick, and I asked wasn't he making a mistake, and he said : "That 
is all right ; go ahead and book him," and he laughed about it, and I 
did, too. He was too old to fight. 

Mr. Rice. Booked him for what ? 

Mr. Clarkson. An affray, and he was too old to fight. 

Mr. Rice. And he was too old to "affray" ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did Culbreath ever come over to the jail? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir, sometimes. 

Mr. Rice. Whom did he visit with when he came over? 

Mr. Clarkson. The warden. 

Mr. Rice. Did he visit with any of the inmates? 

Mr. Clarkson. No, sir; not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Did he meet any gamblers there? 

Mr. Clarkson. I couldn't say. I never saw him. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever talk with any gamblers and they tell you 
they had been to the jail to lay the envelope on the desk? 

Mr. Clarkson. No. I heard this same man that was in here awhile 
ago say something like that happened. 

Mr. Rice. You heard who? 

Mr. Clarkson. This fellow testifying here. 

Mr. Rice. Giglio ? 



136 ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN' INTERSTATE COMMERICEi 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say ? 

Mr. Clarkson. He said he had taken money down there, but I don't 
know anything about that. 

Mr. Rtce. Did he tell you that? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes ; he told me that. 

Mr. Rice. Before he came here ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Anyone else? 

Mr. Clarkson. No ; I don't recall anyone else. I never talked with 
anybody else. That's just hearsay as far as I am concerned. I don't 
know, because their office is on one side and ours is here. There is a 
wall between ; so I never came in contact over there. 

Mr. Rice. So, if the envelopes were laid on the desk, you wouldn't 
be in a position to see it ? 

Mr. Clarkson. No ; I didn't. I wouldn't. 

Mr. Rice. It could happen ; couldn't it ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Well, I would say it could happen. 

Mr. Rice. Do you think it did? 

Mr. Clarkson. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. When the bondsmen came down to put the money up, 
the $100 or other money, how was that handled ? Where did it go ? 

Mr. Clarkson. We showed them in the records, then we made up a 
list of the cash and it went down to the sheriff's office the next morn- 
ing. It was deposited in the bank, I suppose. 

Mr. Rice. The cash went to the sheriff's office ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You showed it in your records? 

Mr. Clarkson. No; we turned it over to the warden, and the man 
from the sheriff's office came out there about 10 o'clock every morning 
and got that money. I guess they took it down to the office. 

Mr. Rice. The records you keep, are they permanent records ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Are they available ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do they show these payments of bonds ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes, sir ; they will show that. 

Mr. Rice. And it is possible to total those up ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes ; it would be. 

Mr. Rice. Were those books ever checked by an accountant, an 
auditor? 

Mr. Clarkson. Not during the time I was there. 

Mr. Rice. Did you make a yearly recapitulation or statement of 
that? 

Mr. Clarkson. No. They balanced every day. 

Mr. Rice. They balanced every day ? 

Mr. Clarkson. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How about the yearly totals ? 

Mr. Clarkson. They had to balance. We had to balance everything 
every month. I couldn't tell you what happened at the end of the year. 

Mr. Rice. I think that is all, Mr. Clarkson. Thank you. 

(Witness excused.) 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Hugh Culbreath. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 137 

Mr. K. C. Myers. Your honor, may I make a statement? I don't 
think he knows he is supposed to be here. I can have him here in just 
a few minutes, I think. I think lie understood that he was to be 
subpenaed tomorrow. 

Mr. Rice. He was notified that it was today. 

Mr. Myers. It was ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Myers. I will check in just a moment. 

Senator Hunt. Will you have him bring with him all the records 
that we have subpenaed ? 

Mr. Myers. Yes, sir. 

(Thereupon, although the committee remained in session, no pro- 
ceedings were had for some 15 minutes.) 

Senator Hunt. The committee has now waited 15 minutes for the 
sheriff to produce himself as a witness. He was notified to be here at 
4 o'clock, notified personally by a member of the staff; so I am going 
to direct the United States marshal to produce the sheriff in this room 
at 7 : 30 this evening. 

The meeting is recessed until 7 : 30. 

(Whereupon, at 5:35 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 7:30 
o'clock p. m. the same day.) 

TESTIMONY OF LT. CHARLES A MARVIN, UNITED STATES ARMY 
AIR FORCE, STEWARD FIELD, N. Y. 

(The hearing resumed at 7: 30 p. m., pursuant to recess.) 

Senator Hunt, Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I do. 

Mr. Rice. Lieutenant Marvin, will you give your name and ad- 
dress ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Charles A. Marvin, 1116 Peninsular, Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. That is your home address ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. That is my home address ? 

Mr. Rice. You are a lieutenant in the Air Force of the United 
States? Where are .you stationed? 

Lieutenant Marvtn. Steward Field, N. Y. 

Mr. Rice. Now, Lieutenant, sometime ago were you on the police 
force in Tampa ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. When was that? 

Lieutenant Marvin. That was from July 28, 1947, through October 
27 of this year. 

Mr. Rice. From July 1947 until when ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. July 1947 until October of this year. 

Mr. Rice. What was your capacity on the police force ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, I started out as a patrolman and after 
about a year and a half I was placed on the vice squad under what 
was then Inspector Beasley, and I was there approximately 9 months 
and was switched to the detective bureau, where I spent 6 weeks, and 
then back to uniform. 

Mr. Rice. Now, when was it that you went on the vice squad ? 



138 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Lieutenant Marvix. That was, I believe, in March 1949, the 1st of 
March 1949. 

Mr. Rice. And you were then under Inspector Beasley, who is now 
the chief ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, theoretically, we were under Lieutenant 
Bolesta, who was head of the vice squad. We took our orders directly 
from the chief of police, who at that time was J. L. Eddings. 

Mr. Rice. On the vice squad, then, you were directly accountable 
to whom ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. J. L. Eddings. 

Mr. Rice. In connection with your operations on the vice squad 
what were your duties? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, our duties at that time in town — the town 
was supposedly closed to all gambling. We were supposed to suppress 
and we were supposed to catch and prosecute any bolita operator 
that we could find operating in the city and any other form of 
gambling. * 

Mr. Rice. Now, Lieutenant, about how many numbers operators 
or bolita operators, to your knowledge, operated in Tampa during 
the time that you were on t'he squad ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. To the best of my knowledge there were ap- 
proximately 10 or 12. 

Mr. Rice. Bankers? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Bankers. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know some of them ? Can you tell us who some 
of them were ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Primo Lazzara, Gus Friscia, who was his part- 
ner, Armando Florez, who was known as Flocco, and his partner. 
Phillip Piaza. Raney Nunez. 

Mr. Rice. All right. How about Scaglione? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Nick and Al Scaglione. One by the name of 
Joe Cagnino. The day I was transferred off of the vice squad we held 
a warrant for 'him. We were going to search his residence. We 
understood he was operating from his residence. We held the war- 
rant to search his residence. I never got to use the warrant. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us a little bit about how the protection for the 
gamblers worked while you were on the vice squad. 

Lieutenant Marvin. At the time I was on it they were not supposed 
to have any protection. It was supposedly closed. I understand that 
they 'had been told to cease all operations and if they didn't they 
would be prosecuted to the utmost — which they weren't. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Which they weren't. Well, one case in particu- 
lar that we made against a man by the name of Rinaldo Martinez. We 
got Mr. Martinez w T ith quite a number of bolita tickets and para- 
phernalia on his person and the chief made a State case of it, and 
we went to JP court and he was bound over to the criminal court, 
and the county attorney has never filed any information in the 
criminal court case. The case has never come up, and that has been 
over a year. 

Mr. Rice. As far as you know the case is still pending ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. As far as I know it is still pending. 

Mr. Rice. Is that typical of the others ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE* 139 

Lieutenant Marvin. It lias happened in the past ; yes, sir. That was 
the only case that the chief had to take to the county court. The rest 
of them were tried in the municipal court in the city. 

Mr. Rice. Well now, you said that they made a State case out of 
that. How does that work? 

Lieutenant Marvin. There is a warrant taken in JP's office charging 
the man under the State statutes. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Lieutenant Marvin. He is taken into justice of the peace court. He 
is not actually tried there. It is decided by the justice of the peace 
whether the case will be bound over to the criminal court of record 
or dismissed. He can't fine or imprison anyone out of the JP court. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Lieutenant Marvin. "Well, he bound it over to the criminal court 
of record under a $1,500 bond, this particular case I am speaking of. 
In the case, there was no information filed in the criminal court of 
record. The case has never been called up in the criminal court or 
even bound over. 

Mr. Rice. Whose business is it to bring those cases on for trial or 
dispose of them ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. County Solicitor Fisher, I believe, is the man 
that is responsible. 

Mr. Rice. Does this particular case go to him? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. It supposedly went to him. 

Mr. Rice. Now, did you have some conversation with Busbee? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, I worked under Sergeant Busbee. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about that situation. 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, Officer Denning and myself were putting 
in about 16 hours a day — we averaged at least one case a day against 
these bolita operators. We were really being hard on them. One 
evening we picked up a small pick-up man. We followed him. We 
had been getting information on him for better than a week. We had 
no jurisdiction in the county. The city has no jurisdiction in the 
county. We picked up his trail in the county and followed him in 
the city and we made an arrest. Sergeant Busbee met us at the police 
station. 

Mr. Rice. What is Busbee's first name? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Luke, I believe. 

Mr. Rice. And what is his job? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, at that time he was on the gambling de- 
tail of the vice squad. We went up to our office on the third floor of 
the police station and filed this bolita numbers that we had taken from 
the pickup man and turned it over to Sergeant Busbee and he was 
going to handle it, and that was the last I ever heard of it. There 
was no case made against this particular party. 

Mr. Rice. What was his name, do you remember ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I don't know his last name. The first name 
was Jimmy. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any conversation with Busbee about the 
protection of gamblers? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Sergeant Busbee asked us to go easy on two 
particular gamblers — I believe there were three, now that I think of 
it. lie said he had money tied up with them at the time Yelasco was 
killed— he had better than $90,000 tied up with them, and that partic- 



140 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

ular time he was talking to us he still had $10,000 invested with the 
gamblers and he wanted us to go easy on them until he could get his 
money back. 

Mr. Rice. Let me see if I understand that. Did he tell that to you 
directly ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. He told that directly to Officer Denning and 
myself. 

Mr. Rice. To Officer Denning and you ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice.. And he said he had $90,000 tied up with the gamblers ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. At the time Velasco was killed. 

Mr. Rice. Where did he get $90,000 ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, I don't know. My understanding is 
that his wife died and she had money and she left quite a large trust 
fund for the two children with Busbee as executor of the trust fund 
and he made investments for that trust fund and acquired quite a 
large sum of money. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Lieutenant Marvin. He also made the statement to Officer Denning 
and myself that the first 11 months that he was in charge of the 
gambling detail of the vice squad that he cleared $250,000. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean by cleared ? Where did he get it ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Supposedly from the gamblers. 

Mr. Rice. In protection money ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I don't know whether it was protection money 
or profits that he allegedly got from money he had invested with them. 

Mr. Rice. Then, he actually backed the gambling himself or was 
interested in their operations? 

Lieutenant Marvin. That's right. That is what I was led to 
believe. 

Mr. Rice. The impression you had. Did he tell you what gamblers 
to take it easy on ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Primo Lazzara, Gus Friscia — Gus Friscia was 
Primo's partner — Flocco, Armando Florez, Phillip Piaza, who was 
Florez's partner, and Nick and Al Scaglione. 

Mr. Rice. How many is that in number? 

Lieutenant Marvin. In number it is only three bankers. They are 
six people in number. 

Mr. Rice. And those were the ones you were told to take it easy on? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. We had been asked not to hit them as 
hard as we had been. We had been hitting them very hard. 

Mr. Rice. In connection with the vice squad, was there any list 
maintained, or record maintained as to who the operators were or are 
around Tampa ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. My understanding, from my conversations 
that I had with Sergeant Busbee and Officer Denning, is that prior 
to Velasco's killing the town was wide open, and on Chief Ecldings' 
order they made up a complete list of every peddler in the city of 
Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. On whose order was that? 

Lieotenant Marvin. By Chief Eddings' order. That was what I 
was led to understand by Denning and Busbee, that they made a com- 
plete list of every peddler in the city of Tampa, which amounted 
to something better than 1,500 peddlers. 

Mr. Rice. What did they do with that list? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE- 141 

Lieutenant Marvin. The last I heard Sergeant Busbee had the list. 
I never have seen the list. 

Mr. Rice. Sergeant Busbee had it ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was the purpose of the list ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. The actual purpose I really couldn't say at all,, 
other than that it was a record of who was selling numbers in the city 
of Tampa and who they were selling them for. It was more for the 
information of the chief and the man in the gambling detail and the 
vice squad. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean by "information" ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, just to know whose men were who. 

Mr. Rice. To know who to let alone ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I imagine that is what it was for. 

Mr. Rice. Well, you were on the vice squad. 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, that was prior to the time I came on the 
vice squad. 

Mr. Rice. Now, I show you some papers and ask you if you recog- 
nize them i 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Rice. What are they 2 

Lieutenant Marvin. They are names and addresses of bolita men. 
This one here is in Chief Eddings' handwriting. It was given to 
Officer Denning and myself. 

Mr. Rice. Officer Denning? 

Lieutenant Marvix. Yes. and we were told to catch those people, 
that they were writing and he had information, and we were told to- 
catch them. 

Mr. Rice. You were told to catch them ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you do that? 

Lieutenant Marvin. We did. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason he told you to catch them '. 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, they were breaking the law. They were 
writing bolita. 

Mr. Rice. So you had here a list of four people who were breaking 
the law ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. But there were 1,500 operating? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Not at that time, Mr. Rice. There were ap- 
proximately 475 writers at that time, This was at the time the town, 
was supposedly closed and there was no gambling going on. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

Lieutenant Marvin. There is another list, 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute before you leave that, Why did he pick 
these particular four? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I don't know. He didn't explain that, 

Mr. Rice. He just told you to go out and get them. 

Lieutenant Marvin. May I see that list again, please. That partic- 
ular list, I don't know. I don't know what his reason is for giving 
those four particular names. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, tell me this, as a police officer when you re- 
ceive a name or names of someone who were said to be peddling or 
running a bolita operation, is it possible to go out and make an arrest ? 

6895S — 51 — pt. la 10 



142 ORGANIZED CRIME IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Lieutenant Marvin. Not a legal one; no, sir. Not just like that — 
not just like the snap of the lingers. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. At that time we were on an expense account, 
and we had our informers who were quite well paid. Some of them 
were beaten up when they were found out. We would follow the per- 
son that was suspected or have our informers go in and buy numbers 
from these so-called suspects, if possible. We would use marked 
money or money from which we had taken the serial numbers and if 
our informers made a buy we would go in and inform the party that 
we had bought some, who we were and what we were there for, and ask 
his permission to search. We didn't always get it. 

Mr. Rice. Did you get a warrant % 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, sir. The majority of these places were 
beer and wine or liquor shops. We were advised that under State 
statutes concerning the beverage law that we had a perfectly legal 
right to search any place that we had reason to believe was used to 
commit a felony. 

Mr. Rice. Publicly? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir ; publicly 

Mr. Rice. Tell me this, lieutenant, as a practical matter and as a 
former police officer, is it not comparatively easy to make a case against 
a peddler, if you know he is peddling ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. We had one practice that we followed, 
on Chief Eddings' order, if a man were known to be a bolita peddler, 
which there was quite a few, I think that were known by most of all 
police officers, vve could pick him on a vagrancy charge under the State 
statutes and make a notation on the court or on the judge's docket 
"known bolita peddler.'' Of course, some of those were set up for us ; 
1 know that. I could not prove it. But I know they were set up, be- 
cause we would go to a certain place to get a man and he would be there 
waiting with $200 in his pocket. 

Mr. Rice. In other words, they would put him out in front to wait 
for you ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. To compile statistics of the number of arrests ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. In your opinion, is it possible for a gambling peddler to 
operate actively without police knowledge? 

Lieutenant Marvin. For a while it is possible, if conditions are such 
.that the town is open and that the authorities are allowing bolita to be 
sold openly, which they were up until 2 months ago here. He will 
.operate for a w T hile without the knowledge of the police. In a short 
time, other bolita peddlers here — 

Mr. Rice. Competitors? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Competitors, yes, sir. That the syndicate will 
turn him into the police to keep him from taking business away from 
them. 

Mr. Rice. Can you recall any instance where peddlers were turned 
in by the syndicate to be pushed out? 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, sir. At the time when I was on the vice 
squad, the syndicate was not operating as a syndicate. They were free 
lance, taking their chances. 

Mr. Rice. Do you think it is possible for a police department to 
run a closed town? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 143 

Lieutenant Maevin. Yes, sir; I believe it is. We almost had a 
•closed town here from the period from the time Velasco was killed 
.until December of last year. This town was about as near closed as 
it could be. 

Mr. Rice. What are those other papers, Lieutenant ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. The large one here is a list of peddlers, bolita 
peddlers, and the locations where bolita is sold, as furnished Mr. Den- 
ning and myself by Chief Eddings. 

Mr. Rice. For what purpose? 

Lieutenant Marvin. To catch them. 

Mr. Rice. What are the others ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. These are lists giving peddlers or different 
bankers .of bolita that Officer Denning compiled, or else got from the 
bankers themselves through the assistance of Sergeant Busbee. 

Mr. Rice. For what purpose ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. These are some of them that we were supposed 
to go easy on. 

Mr. Rice. These 4 sheets here are a list of individuals whom you 
were instructed to go easy on ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. 1 es, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Read some of those names, Lieutenant. Incidentally, 
-whose handwriting are those in, if you know ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Those are in Mr. Denning's handwriting. 

Mr. Rice. Do you recognize that as his handwriting? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. There is the Atomic Cafe on Twenty- 
ninth Street; the Little Savoy on Central and Scott; Charley Suley, 
who has a record of some eighty-odd arrests in Tampa for bolita ; Cass 
•Grocery Store, 706 Cass; Chili's place; the Willow Cafe; and a groc- 
ery store at the corner of Scott and Highland; the Corner Bar, 
Fortune Street and Tampa ; a grocery store on Laurel ; Eddie and 
Coco on Central Avenue; United Grocery, Twenty-sixth Street and 
Twentieth Avenue; Spot's Grocery on Kay Street, between Spring 
and Highland. 

Mr. Rice. Were you working with Officer Denning when these lists 
were compiled? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did he give you those? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes; he did. He gave me these the night of 
the day he was taken from the vice squad and put back in uniform. 

Mr. Rice. He was put back in uniform? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And you continued on ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I continued on for 2 days more and was trans- 
ferred to the detective bureau. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about the Toledo incident. I will offer these lists. 

Lieutenant Marvin. That is what we believe was the cause for us 
being taken off the vice squad. We were never told or given any reason 
for us being removed from the vice squad. We thought we were doing 
a wonderful job. Our revenue run something over $6,000 a month 
that we turned over to the city treasury. 

We got information that George Toledo was banking bolita and 
told where his offices were and where he was carrying on the operation, 
but we could not bother him because he was a particular friend of 



144 ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Chief Eddings, which we did not let bother us. We watched Toledo- 
for about a week. 

Mr. Rice. What connection were you told that he was or had with 
Eddings ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. We were told he was a particular friend of 
Chief Eddings' 

Mr. Rice. Who told you that? 

Lieutenant Mi rvin. Sergeant Busbee was one, after he was removed 
from the vice squad, and informers that we had told us that Toledo had 
a place on the beach and Chief Eddings spent his weekends on the 
beach with him, and we observed his habits and noticed that he went 
to the post office about 9 or 9 : 30 every evening, and we followed 
him on a Monday, I believe, and saw him come out of his house and 
get into his car and put some packages in the seat before he got into, 
the car. We followed him all of the way downtown and he stopped 
in back of the Tribune and bought a paper and went on to the post 
office, and we pulled up to the side of him and identified ourselves 
and told him he was under arrest. His wife was with him. We 
searched his car and found bolita tickets and a tally sheet for a week's- 
business of bolita, letters from Cuba containing a Cuban newspaper 
that gave the numbers drawn on the National Lottery in Cuba ; and 
we took them to the police station and took him up to our office and his 
wife was with him on that day and she complained of being ill ; so we ' 
didn't know exactly what to do about her. I didn't and neither dicL 
Mr. Denning. 

Mr. Rice. Did you book him ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Eventually ; yes, sir. I called Chief Eddings^ 
home, I don't know whether I got him out of bed or not. 

Mr. Rice. You had him at the police station ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir ; we had him up in the office of the vice- 
squad. And, as I say, Mrs. Toledo complained of being ill. Mr. Den- 
ning and myself didn't know exactly what to do about that, so wer 
called Chief Eddings. 

Mr. Rice. About the wife being ill ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes ; to see what disposition we should make of 
his wife. 

Mr. Rice. You had not booked him yet ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, sir ; neither one of them. Chief Eddings 
was very provoked when we told him we had Toledo and his wife down 
there. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean by provoked ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. He had a very rough tone of voice. He said to 
turn her loose and put him on the books for $200, that is exactly, and he 
hung up. So we turned her loose and put Mr. Toledo on the books, 
charging him with possession of lottery. The case came up about 2 
weeks later, where it should have come up the next morning, and it was 
dismissed in municipal court. 

Mr. Rice. What became of the $200? 

Lieutenant Marvin. It was returned to him. 

Mr. Rice. It was returned ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you feel, as a police officer, that you had a good case 
there? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes ; I thought that we did. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 145 

Mr. Rice. Did you discuss that with any prosecuting authorities? 

Lieutenant Marvix. We talked the case over with Mr. Twomey, who 
is assistant city attorney. We had instructions from the chief to use 
Mr. Twomey any time we felt necessary, but at this time, I don't 
remember why, but Mr. Twomey, I don't believe, was in the courtroom 
on that case. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say about it ? Was he interested m prosecut- 



ing 



CF't 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. Mr. Twomey was interested in all 
lottery cases, in prosecuting them to the fullest extent. He thought 
we were doing a very good job. 

Mr. Rice. Where did the case lose out? 

Lieutenant Marvin. In my opinion, it was with the judge. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean? You mean he fixed things with 

the judge? , 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, we had cases in there—well, just a good 
•example, the statement the judge made one morning. 

Mr. Rice. What judge are you talking about now? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Judge Potter, the municipal judge. A case ln 
there one morning, a bolita case— I was not on that particular case, it 
was a Latin fellow, I forget who he was now— he kept talking and 
Judge Potter told him, "If you will just keep quiet a minute, I am try- 
ing to find out something to turn you loose on."' [Laughter.] 

Mr. Rice. Was the same judge on the Toledo case ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What happened to you shortly after that ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, right after the Toledo case, Chief Ed- 
dings called me over and asked how I would like to go on the detective 
bureau. He said he thought I would make a good man on the detective 
bureau. I told him I would like very much to try it and see if I could 
fulfill the qualifications. 

So, I was transferred to the detective bureau. I went to work the 
next day on the detective bureau. Inspector Stephens, who was still 
at that time inspector of detectives wasn't there. He came in Monday 
morning. I told him I had been transferred to the detective bureau. 
He said, "Well, this is the first I knew about it.'' I stayed there 6 
weeks. I was given no explanation, but was sent back to uniform. 
The memorandum that came through on it sending me back to uniform 
said that Officer C. O. Davis was on sick leave and I was replacing him. 
Well, I had the impression that it was just temporary, so when Officer 
Davis came back to the relief I went to Inspector Beasley and asked 
him whether I was transferred permanently or temporarily to uni- 
form. He said, "Permanently," and that is all that was said. Six 
weeks after I went on the detective bureau I was transferred, as I say, 
to uniform. 

Then in October, the 27th, I believe, walking my beat in Ybor City, 
the street sergeant came out. I was just calling in, reporting in to the 
station. He asked me if I had made certain statements about certain 
officers. I told him no, I had not, that one officer came to me and asked 
about it, and he was a very good friend of mine. He said he didn't be- 
lieve it when he heard it, but that he thought he had better ask me 
about it anyway, just to see what I would say. The street sergeant 
took me into the chief's office, where I was accused of making, as the 



146 ORGANIZED CR'IMEi IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

chief put it, scurrilous and scandalous remarks about fellow police- 
officers, degrading or talking about, to the public, the city administra- 
tion, the mayor, and the chief of police. I denied the accusation. I 
told them of one statement I had made to a police captain about a man 
on his relief from information that I had received at the time I was 
on the vice squad, also certain statements that Lieutenant Bolesta had 
made about men on the police department at the time I was on the- 
vice squad. Well, he just out and out fired me right there. 

Mr. Rice. You were fired? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir ; I was fired. 

He listed in the letter that he sent out to me, firing me, making it 
official, that I had made scurrilous and scandalous remarks about fel- 
low police officers, that I also had run down the city administration, in- 
subordination — I don't know where he got all of his information. I 
don't even know where he got the insubordination, other than the fact 
that I told him that Lieutenant Bolesta had made certain remarks 
about police officers. 

Mr. Eice. What do you feel was the real reason for your being 
fired ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, I don't believe what he said was the real 
reason. The only reason I have to believe was because of things that I 
knew or had learned at the time I was on the vice squad. I know 
this: That I tried to get a job in the city of Tampa, and I was told 
by people who should know, people who were trying to get me placed 
in a job, that Chief Beasley had put the kibosh on two very good jobs 
that I was supposed to have gotten, and each time these people would 
call the police department Chief Beasley would stop the job. Of 
course, a few days after I was fired from the police department I got 
my orders to report to the Air Force. 

Mr. Rice. Where you now are ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. After the Toledo incident what became of Denning? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Denning was sent right back to uniform. He 
wasn't told why. As far as I know, he still doesn't know why, for an 
official reason. Of course, he believes the same as I believe. I think 
he does. Now, I can't speak for him, but I imagine he believes the 
same as I do — that we were both sent back because of the Toledo case- 
Approximately 5 days after we were transferred from the vice squad, 
all gambling operations in the city of Tampa opened up wide open 
again. We heard rumors to the effect that that was going to happen 
prior to our arrest of George Toledo and it did happen. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know anything about how it was arranged to- 
open the city again ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Only what talk I heard on the street — rumor.. 
It was talked that Chief Eddings and Sheriff Culbreath couldn't get 
together on who was to be the head of the gambling syndicate. It 
seems as though Chief Eddings wanted one man and Sheriff Culbreath 
wanted another. They finally did get together, and the talk said that 
the elections were quite close and they would neod the monry. The 
information that I heard or the talk that I heard, or did hear at that 
time, was that Santo Trafficante, Jr., would head the syndicate, with 
George Toledo and Angel Daniels as his assistants in the syndicate.. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEl IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 147 

Mr. Rice. Nov* then, that brings us up to the question of the Mafia. 
AVe would be interested in hearing what you have to say about your 
observations of the Mafia and of the syndicate. 

Lieutenant Marvin. That is something you just don't hear much 
about. I have heard, and I imagine many other people in Tampa have 
heard, that there is such a thing here. In working with the Latin 
people in the city of Tampa I have heard them talk of it, speak of it, 
also the fact that Santo Trafficante, Sr., has supposedly or allegedly 
been the head of the Mafia in Tampa for the past 20 years. 

Mr. Rice. "Who are some of the other members ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I do not know. 

Mr. Rice. How many would you say were on the board of directors, 
so to speak? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I have no idea about that at all. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any information as a police officer as to 
how they take care of their troubles? 

Lieutenant Marvin. "Well, only what I have heard — hearsay. Of 
course, it is talked that these murders that Ave have had in Tampa here 
were Mafia murders, due to the fact that shotguns were used and that 
the Mafia used shotguns. That is just hearsay talk, talk I have heard 
on the street, and that's all. 

Mr. Rice. Do you believe it ? State your own opinion ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. JVell, it has gone on for years, and you almost 
have to believe it. 

Senator Hunt. Lieutenant, you spoke of Sergeant Busbee suggest- 
ing to you not to hit certain law violators hard. Now, will you expand 
on that some? Did he tell you not to bother them at all, tell you to 
arrest them and let them off easy, or what were your instructions? 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, nothing explicit like that. He just put it 
in such a way — "Just take it easy on them.'' In other words, "clo not 
make too many cases against them. Go ahead and arrest them, but 
not in the great numbers that we have been arresting them in.*' 

Mr. Rice. How many did that list include, Lieutenant ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. "Well, that I can't really say. Now, those lists 
you have there in handwriting on the small pieces of paper cover a 
majority of them. Of course, we would go out and find a couple of 
new ones and we would be told that they belonged to Flocco or be- 
longed to this one or that one. 

Senator Hunt. You were instructed and given specific addresses 
and names of places where you should raid ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir: that is true. 

Senator Hunt. "Were vou not '? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. In fact, that happened about every other 
day. "We were working in crews of 2 men to a car. "We had, I believe, 
5 cars at that time, 10 men, and each car every few days or so would 
receive a list from Chief Eddings, and we were not supposed to let the 
men in the other cars know what names we had on our list. 

Senator Hunt. Now, this list that I have in my hand here, had 
those people been paying protection money ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. That I can't say. I do not know. I know that 
many of these places, we made cases against them. Those checked off 
there are one we knew to belong to banker Primo Lazzara. Many of 
them we made cases against. 



148 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Senator Hunt. Now, will you tell the committee the division or 
demarcation of authority as between the sheriff and the chief of police? 
Did their duties overlap? Did they work together on cases? 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, sir. I have never known them to work 
together on anything except possibly Jimmy Velasco's murder and 
Officer Morris Lopez' murder. It is very seldom that you see the 
sheriff's office working with the city police. They do not cooperate 
too well — in my experience, they have not in the past. 

Senator Hunt. You are familiar with the great number of gang 
killings here in Tampa down through the years in which there have 
been generally no arrests and I believe no convictions at all. Do you 
think a very definite effort was made to ascertain the killers? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, not being in on all of those investigations 
in these recent murders, I don't know just what or how serious an in- 
vestigation was made. I know for the first 3 weeks after Officer Lopez 
"was killed there was a very serious investigation under way. It just 
seemed to kind of die out. 

Senator Hunt. How do you account for that ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, I don't know how to account for it. 

Senator Hunt. Now, returning to these four names again on this 
list. 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. Where were you asked to .take care of those four 
names, those four people ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. I don't know, sir. This list was given to me by 
Chief Eddings. He said, "I want these people caught." We had 
nothing to do but go out and catch them. Those are the four names 
Chief Eddings gave to us the morning after or two mornings after we 
made the Toledo case. Chief Beasley brought that up the day he fired 
me. These four names we were given, and the chief told us, he said, 
"You. have 24 hours to catch them or else." Well, they had never been 
caught before, and, of course, Officer Denning and I didn't know 
about — at least we didn't know their locations, how they were operat- 
ing. Even so, we had two of them within 3 hours and we got the third 
one the next morning. The fourth one we never did catch. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us, Lieutenant, about how the moonshine-protection 
pay-off operated ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Officer Denning and myself were put on a 
moonshine detail only. In other words, our job was to stop all sale 
and use of moonshine in the city of Tampa. We were told by Chief 
Eddings that it was the mayor's order that it was to be stamped out 
and stamped out completely ; that the people who pay fees for liquor 
licenses were complaining quite bad. 

Mr. Rice. The liquor licensees ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. They were complaining. It was hurting their 
business. The moonshine got to such a point that it was hurting their 
business. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Lieutenant Marvin. Officer Denning and I started out. We came 
into one place of business down here in what they call the scrubs. 
That is the Negro district in downtown Tampa on Central Avenue. 
We walked in an alley that the Negroes call Moonshine Alley and there 
was a Negro standing there in plain sight of everybody with a 5-gallon 



ORGANIZED GRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 149 

iuff of moonshine pouring it out into gallon jugs. Naturally we made 
a case right there and found out that it was operated by one Negro 
by the name of Cliff Matthews. Before we finished we were putting 
in four or five moonshiners a day— putting that many in jail. Of 
course that didn't last very long. They soon closed up. Some of them 
did complain when we would make an arrest and say "We just paid 
off last week or two weeks ago. We are not due for another 2% months 

yet." 

Mr. Rice. What did they mean by that ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. Well, the way they explained it to us Lieuten- 
ant Bolesta had been handling all the moonshine. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. m 

Lieutenant Marvin. On the city vice squad. He would let them 
operate and every 3 months he would collect $100 from them. 

Mr. Rice. From ea h? 

Lieutenant Marvin. From each moonshine operator ot winch we 
found approxi mately 100. This one Negro, Thomas Tillman by name, 
said he had just paid off— he had just carried it over to Lieutenant 
Bolesta's house and given it to him. We still put him in jail, and we 
checked the docket to see if the case had been made. And Lieutenant 
Bolesta had been trying to get me fired for some time for some reason — 
1 guess because of moonshine, and we turned the information over to 
the chief of police. The fact that this Negro had complained that he 
had receipt for $100 that he had paid Lieutenant Bolesta. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see the receipt \ 

Lieutenant Marvin. Yes. It was on a traffic ticket. It was on a 
carbon copy of a traffic ticket. 

Mr. Rice. What did it say \ 

Lieutenant Marvin. It gave the name and address and bond 
accepted, $100. . . , 

Mr. Rice. It was your impression that rather than being a receipt 
it was a permit to operate and showed that he had paid it '( 

Lieutenant Marvin. I couldn't call it a permit to operate, no. I am 
just saying that it was a receipt for $100 that the Negro had paid Lieu- 
tenant Bolesta. 

Mr. Rice. But it wasn't on any traffic offense? 

Lieutenant Marvin. No. it wasn't on any traffic offense. It didn t 
refer to an offense there. It just listed the fact that the Negro had 
paid $100. . _ " L ' 

Mr. Rice. And the Negro said he paid $100 to Lieutenant Bolesta ( 

Lieutenant Marvin. Carried it to him at his house. We checked 
the docket on that. It was not on the docket. We gave the informa- 
tion to Chief Eddings and that is the last we ever heard of it. 

Mr. Rice. You say you checked the docket. What is that particular 

docket ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. We checked the docket to see if a case had been 
entered on the docket against this Negro. 

Mr. Rice. This is a traffic case ? . 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, a moonshine case. Untaxed liquor. It is 
not on the docket, . 

Mr. Rice. You are not speaking of the case you made. This is the 

other one ? . . , 

Lieutenant Marvin. I am speaking of the case that this man said 
that he gave Lieutenant Bolesta $100. 



150 ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Rice. What became of the case you made ? 

Lieutenant Marvin. He was fined $100. 

Mr. Rice. And he complained vigorously? 

Lieutenant Marvin. No, he didn't complain. He just didn't say 
anything. He just walked out and started selling moonshine again. 

Mr. Rice. Did you learn how they handled the constable situation 
like that? 

Lieutenant Marvin. There was one Negro woman down in the scrub 
that contended that things were getting so bad that she was paying out 
so much money she was going to have to quit — with the city taking 
$100 every 3 months and the constable taking $50 a month and the 
sheriff taking $150 every 2 months, she said "I just can't afford to op- 
erate like that." 

Senator Hunt. Lieutenant, I should like to say to you that the com- 
mittee is deeply grateful for the forthright way in' which you have 
volunteered to come before the committee and give the testimony that 
you have given. I should like to say that I am sure the committee 
regrets that possibly the whole police force is not constituted of men 
of vour type and honesty. 

Lieutenant Marvin. Thank you, sir. 

Senator Hunt. I hold in my hand 4 slips with approximately 45 
names placed thereon, partly in ink and partly in pencil, and one larger 
sheet of paper with approximately 25 typewritten names and ad- 
dresses. These will be entered in the record as exhibit No. 10. 

(Exhibit No. 10 has been turned over to the grand jury now investi- 
gating the situation in Tampa.) 

This being an open hearing, I think it is appropriate for me to say 
that this evening we received word that Anthony Accardo, a witness 
whom the committee has sought since last August, surrendered to a 
Federal marshal in Chicago today. Now this brings the list of the 
committee's missing witnesses down to 6, exclusive of 7 residents of 
Tampa who have not made themselves available to our service. Ac- 
cardo carries a very high rank in the underworld and the fact that 
he has recognized that sooner or later the committee would find him 
and compel him to testify should be further proof to the Trafficantes, 
father and son, and the Decidue brothers, that this committee means 
business and our search for them is going to be endless. While no 
date for hearing Accardo's testimony has been set, I think it is prob- 
able that he will be heard in Washington. I make this announcement 
for the benefit of the press and the radio and before we leave I will 
attempt to get further information with reference to when Accardo 
will be heard in Washington. 

TESTIMONY OF TONY LICATA, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help 'you God? 

Mr. Lioata. I do. 

Mr. Rice. Will you give your name and address to the reporter? 

Mr. Licata. Tony Licata, 1810 Mitchell Street. 

Mr. Rice. What do you do ? 

Mr. Licata. Run a restaurant. 

Mr. Rice. What is the name of the restaurant? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 151 

Mr. Licata. The Sea Breeze. 
Mr. Rice. That is located here in Tampa? 
Mr Licata. The Twenty-second Street Causeway. 
Mr Rice. Now, going back several years ago, Mr. Licata, will you 
tell what you were doing with respect to bolita operations? 

Mr Licata. Well, I started in just to help a friend out, ] ust being 
a nice fellow, minding my own business. I had a nice legitimate busi- 
ness, a restaurant business. That was during the war. So a friend of 
mine owned a little place of business on Seventh Avenue called the 
Pelican Bar. He was a friend of mine and a very good customer, so 
he would ask me for a hundred or two or three or five hundred, to 
loan it to him until he could get on his feet, I don't know, he was m a 
little tight shape, you know. So I loaned it to him And he was a 
friend of mine at the same time. So I didn't worry about it too much. 
So he o-ets a liquor license. He makes a petition out for a liquor 
license^d it took him a couple of years to get it, on account of the 
city wasn't permitting any more licenses out or permitting them to 
liave any more— the small places anyway, so he got a license and had 
a partner, and he had trouble with his partner— some Anglosac fel- 
low—an American fellow— and he has trouble, and he runs to me and 
tells me about his trouble. That he either has to buy out or sell out. 
So I told him "Go ahead and buy him out." And I said, You go 
ahead and run it and we will be partners." So I gave him a check tor 
$3 000 and he went around the next morning and straightened the 
papers out with his partner, buying him out, and it ran to $5,600, the 
whole place. They took an inventory and everything. So, he returned 
to me $200 of the $3,000 that I had loaned him. So I never was there, 
hecause I had enough business of my own taking care of this other 
little'place. This was just a hole in the wall with a liquor license. 
Mr. Rice. Go ahead about the bolita. 
Mr. Licata. The action of it ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. . ■ _ 

Mr Licata. So anyway, he was m bolita, and he said, Do you 
Avant to go in with me ?" I said, "No, I haven't got time to bother with 
it " And I said, "Furthermore, I don't want any bolita sold here. 
He said, "Well, there won't be any bolita sold here. If you don t want 
it we won't sell it," So he stopped for 3 or 4 clays and started a week 
later. I found out he was selling. I said, "Listen. I don't want any 
oolita sold here. If you sell, if you go ahead they are going tesend 
you up, and I don't want any part of it." He said, "O. K. It s my 
risk." And Sheriff Culbreath and his deputies arrested him and gave 
him a year and a day. 

Mr. Rice. What was that for ? 
Mr. Licata. For bolita. 
Mr. Rice. When was this? 

Mr. Licata. It must have been while he was up in 1947 sometime. 
Mr. Rice. What was his name ? 
Mr. Licata. Nelson Clice. 
Mr. Rice. Were you ever arrested? 
Mr. Licata. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. Never been arrested at all ? 
Mr. Licata. No, sir. , 

And so he went up and the State had given him a padlock, and 1 
Tvas still a partner in the business and because of him being arrested 



152 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

I was losing money, so I went up to see the beverage department for 
permission, and said I didn't have anything to do with it and I had! 
my money in it. He said "All right." You will either have to buy 
out or sell out." So I gave this partner of mine the same proposition, 
to buy out or sell out. He said "I can't buv you out because I have 
to serve a year." So I bought him out, So just before that time we had 
gotten two partners to come in the place to bank bolita. This partner 
of mine— I didn't know anything about it till he showed up with 
two partners, I believe, and he said that the county solicitor— not 
the county solicitor— yes, it was Cobbey, the countv solicitor, had put 
these two fellows in there to operate this bolita. Jimmy Velasco then 
brought these two fellows over and said they have got to operate here 
and be your partners. 

Mr. Rice. He told that to you ? 

u J% ,^ I ^ ATA ' He told that to me and this partner of mine. He said,. 
"O. K." So I was there with him. 

Mr. Eice. You were in business then ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. So they operated and we lost, I will say 
1 lost about $4,000 m numbers that hit, so I gave him the money and 
they had gotten about even, and it was about 3 or 4 months - 

Mr. Rice. During the time you were with Jimmy, how was voui 
protection taken care of? 

Mr. Licata. I never paid any protection that I know of 

Mr. Rice. Who took care of that ? 

Mr. Licata. There was nothing to pay. I didn't pay anv pro- 
tection. J J l 

Mr. Rice. How about Jimmy ? 

Mr. Licata. Jimmy, I don't know how he did. 

Mr. Rice. Did he tell you he was taking care of that ? 

Mr. Licata. He said he was taking care of everything "Don T t 
worry about this thing. I will take care of that." 

Mr. Rice. H^ mst told you not to worry? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did he say who he was taking care of or did you know * 

Mr. Licata. No ; only that Cobbey was the man. 

Mr. Rice. He was the boss? 

Mr. Licata. He was the boss, and we had to do a little something 
And it was a very skimpy business. It wasn't nothing at all. It wasn^t 
worth having with two other partners. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, go ahead. 

Mr Licata^ So anyway, I didn't like the idea. As soon as we got 
even I said Boys, you run it to suit your taste. I'm going to take a 
vacation." So I went off for 2 months and I came back and it was: 
still at a standstill. There was nothing won and nothing lost, I 
guess. They were paying the fines and forfeiting bonds and every- 
thing was a list of what was paid out. So about that time, a very good 
friend at that time— he was in the Army, and he was going to run for 
constable. & s 

Mr. Rice. What was his name? 

Mr Licata. T. L Hackney, Jr. T. L. Hackney. So he came back 

SrT" • Arm y and said, "I am going to run for constable," I said 

That is a good idea," I said, "Then maybe you can make a nice officer 

and some day run for sheriff." So I was operating there at this time 

when Hackney came back to town after getting out of the Army, and 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 153 

he goes to Bradenton Beach— Anna Maria, rather, for a rest for 6 
months. And on one of those trips down there I tried to get him to rim 
for sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Of Hillsborough County { 

Mr. Licata. That's right. Instead of running for constable. It 
wasn't my idea. It was another friend's idea that wanted to get him. 
I didn't 'care. I told him either one of those races. Because the 
sheriff was too big an office for him to grab at that time. I don't know 
Low the information got back, but I had the understanding that it got 
hack to the sheriff's ears. , . . 

Mr. Rice. The incumbent sheriff, the sheriff who is in office? 
Mr. Licata. Yes; and these peddlers that we had, we started getting 
them knocked off for $500 fines. 

Mr. Rice. How many peddlers did you have out ? 

Mr. Licata. Oh, I don't know. I had about 16 or 17. 

Mr. Rice. Sixteen turning in to your operation ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. They started getting knocked off? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who was knocking them off ? 

Mr. Licata. The sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. What time of year was this? 

Mr. Licata. It was in 1947 sometime. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. During 1947 ? 

Mr. Licata. Yes, during 1947. 

Mr. Rice. When you say the sheriff was knocking them off ■ 

Mr. Licata. I say his chief deputy then, Brooker— lie was chief 
vice man, or whatever you call him, of the vice squad. He started 
bumping one or two a week off for $500, because he had an impression 
that I went down to Bradenton to talk to Hackney, which wasn't true. 
1 did go down there, but I didn't try to get him to run. for sheriff at all. 
It was all a misunderstanding. 

Mr. Rice. If there hadn't been any misunderstanding would your 
peddlers have been permitted to operate, in your opinion ? 

Mr. Licata. In my opinion, they would have, because they never 
bothered nobody or muscled into nobody's business. 
Mr. Rice. You say you what? 

Mr. Licata. I said I never muscled into nobody's business. I didn't 
even see anything about the operations. I was their partner, yes. 
Then I was sole owner of the place, which was transferred to the name 
of the Llanelli Bar. 

Mr. Rice. Did you feel that anyone was muscling in on your 
business ? 

Mr. Licata. Xo. I mean prior to that time I had been to Bradenton 
to see Hackney. 

Mr. Rice. But when your peddlers started to get hit, were you being 
muscled then? 
Mr. Licata. No. 
Mr. Rice. What was happening ? 

Mr. Licata. We sent for Jimmy Velasco right away and he kind of 
quieted it down. 

Mr. Rice. What did he do ? 

Mr. Licata. He just took the pressure off. 

Mr. Rice. How did he do it ? 



154 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Mr. Licata. That I couldn't answer. 
Mr. Rice. What did lie say he did ? 
Mr. Licata. Talked to the man. 
Mr. Rice. The man ? 
Mr. Licata. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. Name him. 
Mr. Licata. He didn't say. 
Mr. Rice. What? 
Mr. Licata. He didn't say. 
Mr. Rice. He didn't say who "the man" was ? 
Mr. Licata. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know who the man is ? 
Mr. Licata. Well, I have an idea, but I couldn't swear to it. 
Mr. Rice. What idea do you have? 
Mr. Licata. Sheriff Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. He talked to "the man" and what happened next I 
Mr. Licata. Well, everything quieted down. 
Mr. Rice. Everything quieted down ? 
Mr. Licata. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. Smoothed over? 
Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you continue with Hackney? 
Mr. Licata. I certainly did. 
Mr. Rice. What did you do? 
Mr. Licata. What did I do ? 
Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Licata. I went busted with him. 
Mr. Rice. How much? 

Mr Licata. It's pretty hard to tell ; between twenty and twenty- 
five thousand. 

Mr. Rice. You turned over to him twenty to twenty-five thousand: 
dollars? 

Mr. Licata. No ; I didn't turn it over to him. I spent that much 
electing him. 

Mr. Rice. You spent it on his campaign. 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You were backing him? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. I was his god then ; I am his enemy today. 

Mr. Rice. What were the expenditures for ? 
tfo^In LlCA , TA - Well > the b °ys working the streets, gasoline, about 
fcd,500 worth of radio, the Tribune, advertisements, and eight or nine 
hundred or a thousand, maybe, of placards, cards, hand cards, and 
what have you ; about $3,500 worth of gasoline bills, repairs, painting- 
ot automobiles, repainting of automobiles, giving them a free paint 
job if they put this sign on there. 

Mr. Rice. The Hackney sign? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. There were 32 cars painted. This town 
was infested with Hackney signs all over. They thought he was run- 
ning tor governor or something. 

Mr. Rice. You say this town was infested with them ? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. While you were backing Hackney, did you have an un- 
derstanding with him about what the arrangements were to be if 
and when he was elected ? 



ORGANIZED GRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE* 155 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. What's that \ 

Mr. Licata. "Well, brother," he says, "we're going to win." I said, 
"Yes, but if we do we got to work mighty hard." He says, "You see 
this little stockroom?" This was in my liquor stockroom, a pretty 
big place. He says, "You and I are going to sit up here and eat chicken 
and divide." I said, "That's nice. But let's get elected first." So— — 

Mr. Rice. What did he mean about this dividing \ Who was going 
to divide ? 

Mr. Licata. I don't know. He probably meant he would give me 
half and half; that he would give me the rabbit end and he would take 
the horse, I guess. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know what the constable's salary is^ 

Mr. Licata. Yes, sir; it's $7,500 a year. 

Mr. Rice. He wasn't going to divide that with you, was he? 

Mr. Licata. Well, no. He said if he didn't make a dime that he 
would keep most of that and have, 4 years from now — from then.. 
That was 1948, and it would be 1952 — to run for sheriff then. He 
says, "If they don't cooperate with me we will close this town." He 
savs, "There won't be anybody to operate." I said, "Well, you will 
have $30,000 more than I will." He says. "Yes, and we will keep that,, 
too, to beat Culbreath next time." So it didn't work so hot. 

Mr. Rice. Now, was anything said about how he would operate or 
how you would both operate after he got in, how you would control 
the situation to protect your investment? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. Before getting in office he kept telling me, "They 
want to deal with us now. Should 1 deal ?" 

Mr. Rice. Who is "they"? 

Mr. Licata. I imagine it was the city and county. 

Mr. Rice. Wanted to deal with 

Mr. Licata. With the constable. 

Mr. Rice. Before he was elected ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. When? 

Mr. Licata. In other words, he told me that the sheriff and Eddings 
were getting together and deciding on what was going to happen. I 
said, "Well, you know more about that than I do." I says, "You can 
talk about that and see what you are going to do." So about a year 
ago 

Mr. Rice. What was to be your job after he got in office? What 
were you to do ? 

Mr. Licata. I don't know. He said I was going to make the money, 
but I haven't made it yet. He said we were going to divide. 

Mr. Rice. Well, did he say you were going to be his boy ? 

Mr. Licata. Yes ; I was going to be his boy and they would have to 
see Papa Tony. 

Mr. Rice. After he got in they were going to have to see Papa 
Tony? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Meaning you ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. In other words, you would be the collector ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. The banker? 



156 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCEi 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. In furtherance of that scheme, did you do any research 
about finding out whom you were going to collect from, or did you 
already know ? 

Mr. Licata. Well, that is very easy to find out once you are an 
officer. At least, I could find out if I was a law-enforcement officer. 

Mr. Rice. Why is it easy ? Do they keep lists ? 

Mr. Licata. I imagine they do ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. Don't you know ? 

Mr. Licata. Yes, I do. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What 

Mr. Licata. Let me get up closer to that. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Mr. Licata. Before he took office 2 years ago will be the third of 
this coming year, will be 2 years — well, about 2 years, about this time — 
no, a little earlier — yes, about this time — he says, "Well, they want 
to deal with me." I says, "Who wants to deal with you?" He says, 
"Jimmy Lumia and Tony Gonzales was the one in between, carrying 
the bag for both of them, see." He says, "Let's get out of town." I 
says, "You mean you want to go out of town?" He says, "Yes." I 
says, "You don't want to deal with them now?" He says, "No." 
Well, then it was rumored that he was scared to do any dealing; 
there was so much rumor of the Governor removing the sheriff, and 
anything was going to happen. He thought he could be appointed the 
sheriff then. 

Mr. Rice. Velasco had just been killed? 

Mr. Licata. Killed, that's right. It was after Velasco got killed. 
Velasco has been dead 2 years ago on the 12th of this month. 

Mr. Rice. In December of 1948 ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you are talking about what part of December 1918 ? 

Mr. Licata. It was between the 26th and 27th, about this time. 

Mr. Rice. Right around this time ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. In 1948? 

Mr. Licata. That's right, 1948. 

Mr. Rice. Go ahead. 

Mr. Licata. He says, "Let's take a trip to Miami." I said, "Let's 
go." So we packed up the next morning and left. 

Mr. Rice. This trip was taken to get away from dealing with 
Lumia ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right; and Lumia had given him $4,000, see, 
for his Campaign, and he kept telling me that was just insurance 
money, "That don't mean anything." 

Mr. Rice. Lumia told you that ? 

Mr. Licata. No, Hackney. The reason he took it — I said I didn't 
want him to get no money from nobody. He says, "We will only take 
it for insurance," and he kept it. He gave him two one time and two 
later, after the first primary. He didn't give him a nickel before the 
first primary. After the first primary, after he had beat the incum- 
bent by 3,500 votes, then is when he decided to get a couple of measly 
hundred thousand dollars. He got four thousand, two and two. 

Mr. Rice. What did he do with that money? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 157 

Mr. Lie ata. He pocketed it, I guess, because he didn't spend a dime. 
He said it with his own mouth. I've got witnesses to prove that he 
got it. So we go to Miami. In Miami we go down Biscayne and he 
sees a sign, "Cuba.'' He says, "Do you want to go to Cuba ?" I says, 
"It's not a bad idea." So we get on a plane the next morning and 
hop down to Cuba, and we was in Cuba New Year's night, having a 
big time. So we get back the next day to Miami, and we get back 
here on the second. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any conversations down there? 

Mr. Lie ata. Yes, ves ; a lot of them. 

Mr. Rice. What about? 

Mr. Licata. Oh man, you make me feel like I'm in heaven now. 
[Laughter.] 

Senator Hunt. This is an open meeting, and the chairman certainly 
has no desire to change it to an executive session, but unless we can have 
order in the room it will be necessary to do so, so the Chair does 
not want to hear any more outbursts following any statement by the 
witness. 

Mr. Rice. What conversation did you have down there on this trip 
with Hackney \ 

Mr. Licata. Oh, my God. I can't think of half of them. 

Mr. Rice. Well, some of them. 

Mr. Licata. Some of them? Well, it was all about me — "you're 
going to take care of this little deal, and you are going to take care of 
that little deal, and you are going to take care of the other," and "You 
and I are going to divide at the end of the week." That was all his 
talk. He smelled like a rat then, see, which he is, because anybody 
that does the way he does has no mercy for anybody. 

So, anyway, we get back, and we got back the night just before the 
morning of the 3d. We got in about 11 : 30 that night, and the next 
morning with the 3d, see. So the 4th he takes office. He takes office, 
and I go up to congratuate him, and everything is fine and lovely. 
Well, we got the office, we are in. We will take care of the deal a little 
bit later on. Him and I was in his private office. I says, "O. K." He 
was busy, and I says, "I will leave you alone. You go ahead and greet 
the people and I will see you tomorrow." I go back tomorrow and he 
calls me aside and says, "Listen. Don't you think that if we want to 
talk about anything 1 should come out to your place and go in the pri- 
vate room, and we will talk, but it don't look right for you to come in 
my office like this : and, you know, you being my right-hand man, and 
everybody knows you elected me, people are going to get fishy." I says, 
"O. K. I just won't come up here no more. Any time I want to see 
you I'll call you or you call me and arrange it. He says, "O. K." So 
about a week later he calls me and says, "I want to see you at my house 
about 7 : 30." 

So I go in there, and he had his brother there that was waiting for 
him, and a friend of his that he double-crossed, too, and he calls me 
and he says, "Look," he says, "I don't know — this is a hard situation." 
He says, "It's funny." He says, "We don't know what's going to 
happen, see," and with my lack of experience, because I have never 
been in anything like that, I thought, what was it? I says, "What 
do you mean?" He. says, "What do you think of handling about $15,- 
000 a week?" I said, "What are you talking about?" He said, "How 

68958 — 51— pt. la 11 



158 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

would you consider that much?" I said, "Have you had any deals?" 
He said, "No, no, no, no, no; I haven't had any dealings." He said, 
"What do you think of that amount?" I said, "Personally, for my- 
self, it is more than enough. It's just right." I says, "But what about 
all these boys I got in the street that I am obligated to and you are, 
too? What are you going to tell them — kick them in the shoes and 
let them go?" So he says, "Well, we'll see about it." I says, "You 
think it over." I says, "I don't care so much about myself. I am 
thinking of you and myself in the future, of working up an organi- 
zation and letting the boys make a living. I don't have to make a 
living; I've got my business." I says, "You make $7,500 a year, and 
you can live well on that." He says, "That's right," 

So after I got out of there I started thinking, "That guy has made 
a deal somewhere, and he comes to me with this skimpy offer." So 
I says, "I would just like to see what's going on," so I called him one 
day and he had an excuse, he couldn't come out to see me. In the 
meantime, a friend of mine give me some information that he had 
been out to the Sulphur Springs dog track and had collected $300 
from a friend out there, from a bookie, rather. I don't know who 
the bookie is, but he had collected $300, and it came to my ears from 
a pretty good source that he had got $300 from the bookie. 

Mr. Rice. That he had shaken him down for $300 ? 

Mr. Licata. That's right, that he had shaken him down for $300. 
So I called him and he denied it. He denies it and starts getting 
away from me, see, and he makes a couple of remarks about his 
brother's furniture store. 

Then he makes a couple of remarks in his brother's furniture 
store, Hackney's furniture store on North Franklin, that Tony was 
a good boy, he started telling a cousin of mine, but he had big ideas 
and wanted to control the whole town like Red Italiano and with 
two pistols in his pocket. I never said anything like that in my life, 
coming out of his mouth, things that he said that I was supposed to 
say; and there conies the confliction there, and I started to say a 
couple of things about him. I kept calling him and he wouldn't 
come out to see me, so I went up to see him in the Knight & Wall 
Building, and he tells me that the sheriff don't want me to operate, you 
are definitely out. He said the sheriff does not want you to operate 
and I said "Why," and he said, because you have been cussing the 
sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Because you have been what? 

Mr. Licata. Been cussing the sheriff. I said "The reason I was 
cussing him was on account of you." I said I was a friend of the 
sheriff, the sheriff should be cussing me, I should not be cussing the 
sheriff, and you are the dog that is talking about that the sheriff 
now, that he doesn't like me, what kind of a deal is this. He said, 
"Oh, you have been cursing me too and you can't operate any more." 
"You mean to say I have finished?" "Yes, you have finished." So I 
walked out. 

Mr. Rice. Do you feel that you were double-crossed? 

Mr. Licata. Do I feel like I have been double-crossed? Are you 
kidding ? Certainly I do. In fact, I know I have been double-crossed. 
Not only I, but three-fourths of the town knows it too. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, what became of you after that? You con- 
tinued to run your restaurant? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 159 

Mr. Licata. My restaurant, that is right. 

Mr. Rice. You got out of the 

Mr. Licata. I have been out a way before 1948, 1947 sometime. 

Mr. Rice. What has Hackney done? 

Mr. Licata. What has Hackney done ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Licata. Well, before that time he collected any petty stuff 
he could get hold of on little moonshine deals and little skin games 
here and there, and some petty stuff. The store I had, I sold the 
business to my brother-in-law, this is another bar, and it is in the 
colored section on Twenty-seventh and Seventh, and down north 
from there in the colored section there that sells moonshine and stuff 
in these private little houses, and I told him about it when he first 
took office, to knock them off, it was hurting my business, I had a 
legitimate whisky business; and he said, O. K., give me the list of 
names and everything, and I gave him the names of who they were and 
so then, like a smart operator, he gets the name and he knocked them 
off one time to show them that he was the constable and then .from 
there on he wanted to collect from them and never arrested them 
any more that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Where did this come from, this was a moonshine list? 

Mr. Licata. Yes, this was a moonshine list. 

Mr. Rice. Did you do any business on a gambling list? 

Mr. Licata. I gave him a list when he took office. 

Mr. Rice. You gave him a list? 

Mr. Licata. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When he took office ? 

Mr. Licata. That is right, right after he took office. 

Mr. Rice. You had come into possession of a list? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. And what did the list represent? 

Mr. Licata. Every bolita peddler in Tampa in Hillsborough 
County. 

Mr. Rice. Every bolita peddler in Hillsborough County. And 
whose list was it supposed to be? 

Mr. Licata. It was the same list, I think that, or it sounded like 
the list that this lieutenant just testified about here. 

Mr. Rice. The vice squad list? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. I gave him one and gave his brother 
one, the deputy. 

Mr. Rice. I show you a list and ask you if you recognize it? 

Mr. Licata. That is the copy what I gave him. 

Mr. Rice. That is the copy of what you gave him ? 

Mr. Licata. Gave you — gave him, rather. 

Mr. Rice. That is the copy of the list that you gave to Hackney? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. RiCe. And in connection with that list what were you supposed 
to do and what was he supposed to do ? 

Mr. Licata. What was he supposed to do? 

Mr. Rice. This was a master list. 

Mr. Licata. That is right, that I gave Hackney. 

Mr. Rice. And these were the people that were to contribute to 
protection? 



160 ORGANIZED CRIME: IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Explain that and read some of the headings off and some 
of the names so we can know what that is. 

Mr. Licata. Well, that Anderson B. is for Black, 3801 Twenty- 
Ninth Street. There is a list here. 

Mr. Rice. What does that mean? 

Mr. Licata. He is a bolita peddler in the street and colored, and 
he lives at that address. 

Mr. Rice. What is the reason for that list? Is that the list of the 
people not to hit or the people to lay off of, or what is your under- 
stand in o-? 

Mr. Licata. Well, that is the list that the city had. 

Mr. Rice. That is the list that the city had ? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Read some of the headings there on that, read some 
of the other headings on that. 

Mr. Licata. Peach Bar, Jimmie's Grocery, Anderson's Place. That 
was a- banker. That is a pick-up place. 

Mr. Rice. This was a banker ? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the banker on the Peach Bar? 

Mr. Licata. I don't know who was the banker. I know they checked 
in there and this is the list what I got. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the boss in that operation ? 

Mr. Licata. It has been closed now. It was then Flocco. 

Mr. Rice. What is his right name ? 

Mr. Licata. Armando. 

Mr. Rice. These names and addresses that appear after the Peach 
Bar, why are they broken down that way ? 

Mr. Licata. Well, I imagine it was an outlaw seller, and his name 
was not on the list, and they would pick him up, being as they had 
a list, they would not pick him up, would not pinch him, he belongs to 
somebody. 

Mr. Rice. He belongs to the syndicate ? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. You have a heading here "Angel Daniels" and a num- 
ber of people after that, what does that mean ? 

Mr. Licata. Well, it means that these writers turn over to him. 

Mr. Rice. Angel Daniels ? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. This is his organization? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Trafficante? 

Mr. Licata. The same way, I guess. 

Mr. Rice. The same thing. Is there any distinction between Traf- 
ficante, Sr., and Trafficante, Jr.? 

Mr. Licata. I don't know, father and son, I guess. 

Mr. Rice. Fucarrato? 

Mr. Licata. The same thing? 

Mr. Rice. Where it says Primo ? 

Mr. Licata. That is the way I got it. I don't know. I imagine it 
is Primo Lazzara. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmie Velasco, that is his organization ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 161 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Scaglione? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. The Peach House? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. , ,, , ' ■ 

Mr. Rice. Is that the same as the Peach Bar* 

Mr. Licata. That is right. The Peach House and Peach Bar and 

a few more. 

Mr. Rice. There were others? 

Mr. Licata. No. 

Air. Rice. That is the complete list i 

Air. Licata. That is the complete list that I had. 

Mr. Rice. That is what you were able to get? 

Air. Licata. That is right. 

Air. Rice. We offer that list as an exhibit. . 

(Exhibit No. 11 has been turned over to the grand jury m lampa, 

Fla.) , , . 9 

Air Rice. Was your house searched on one occasion I 

Air! Licata. Yes; it was. That was about 8 or 4 weeks, I imagine. 

Air Rice. What was the reason for that? 

Air! Licata. I don't know, but it must have been rats, whoever it 
was. because they really tore that house up. 

Air. Rice. Did you ever indicate that you had anything m youi 
house that would be worth while ? 

Air. Licata. Hackney knew I had this list. 

Air. Rice. Hackney knew you had this list. 

Air. Licata. Yes ; because I had given him a copy. 

Air. Rice. And he knew you had a copy ? 

Air. Licata. That is right. 

Air. Rice. And what happened? 

Mr. Licata. Well, they just searched the house from head to toot. 
I mean they tore the whole thing completely up. 

Air. Rice. Where were you? 

Air Licata. I was trying to prepare our business to open up. 1 
think it was a couple of days before Thanksgiving. I don't know the 
date exactly, and I was out there fixing, preparing the food and faxing 
the shelves, and putting everything in this place at the Seabreeze, and 
my mother gets home about 9 o'clock or 10, 9, I think, and evidently, 
whoever was in the house must have saw her come m, or was watching 
her when she got out of the car in front of the house, and it was still 
dark, and she went in and she saw the house when she walked m all 
torn up. 

Air. Rice. Was the house broken into ? 

Air. Licata. Yes; broke in through the window in the kitchen. 

Air. Rice. Was there anything stolen ? 

Air. Licata. No, sir; there was a radio and a little electric shaving 
outfit. They took that and the radio and left it at the far end of the 
alley, just dropped it there, and they took that .38 of mine, snub-nosed. 
Air. Rice. And that was gone ? 
Air. Licata. That was gone. 

Air. Rice. Was there anything worth stealing there, money or 
jewels? 



162 ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Licata. Well, there was jewels. There must have been a couple 
of thousand dollars' worth of jewels there, and had a china set there 
and had a lot of silver that was worth a lot of money, and my sister 
had some rings there, and she had a couple of hundred dollars in her 
pocketbook laying on the bed. 

Mr. Eice. Her purse was on the bed ? 

Mr. Licata. Yes; covered up with a slip or something, and in a 
drawer she had one of these cans where she was keeping the silver 

that ° Ver 6 ' majbe M0 ° r 15 ° ° f them ' and they ne ^ er touclled 

Mr. Eice. None of that money was taken ? 
. Mr. Licata. None of it was taken. The only thing that was miss- 
ing was my gun and maybe about $15 or $20 that my mother had in 
some corner of the door. 

Mr. Eice. What was your idea, do you feel that your house was 
turned upside down and searched with a view to locating the paper « 

Mr Licata. Well, I will tell you: My brother is married to a man's 
daughter; his name is John Colusi, that got raided by the sheriff's dep- 
ute t°i \ ° -i 5 ° f th T' I don,t ^member, and they raided this 
place and got evidence on him, so they say; I don't know how much 
evidence they got on him, of bolita, and he had a list of telephone 
numbers, and everybody's telephone numbers in this area have been 
changed, and we had two telephone numbers at the Seabreeze that 
were changed; so my sister-in-law's mother, which is the wife to the 
man that was raided, that owned the house, had this number on the 
wall there on a slip of paper, and they had the Seabreeze numbers 
on there; so after they had that raid, a couple of weeks later, I imag- 

r ' ^Wh ! 1G tele P\ one m *n come b ^ and said > "Well, you have until 

\ r v at J ? UT P hone Wl11 be removed within 3 days " That was 

on Monday and on Wednesday, it was cut off. ^ mat was 

wn7L<? ICE i The te }^ n& company will cut the service because he 
was engaged m an illegal activity? 

Mr Licata That is right, aiid that the sheriff had said to cut off 
my telephone, I think that there was 31 of them 

phones oflf ' The Sherlff had t0ld the tele P hone company to cut the 
Mr. Licata Yes, sir ; because my name was on the list. 
Mr. Eice. Just because they found your name there ? 
Mr. Licata. Yes, sir; that is right and which his daughter's num- 
ber was on. 

Mr. Eice. Just because they found your name there « 

Mr Licata The telephone number. Because my name was on this 
list. And the Seabreeze has never sold anything like that, his deputies 
knows he knows and everybody else in Tampa knows that the Sea- 
breeze has never sold no bolita. So I had this list, and I was mad, and 
I told a couple of guys, I says, if I don't get my telephone back in, 
somebody is going to get into trouble, I says, I don't care. The next 
day I had my telephone back. 

Mr. Eice. You said someone is going to get in trouble. Did vou 
say anything about the list? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Eice. What did you say? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. I said I had a list of every telephone and every 
bolita peddler m Tampa. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 163 

Mr. Rice. You had a list of everyone? And what were you going 
to do with it? . 

Mr. Licata. I was going to take it over to the grand ]ury, and to 
the Railroad Commission, and to the attorney general, or anybody, or 
to the President of the United States, because I was going to get my 
phone back. And the next day, I opened up on Thursday, I think, 
we were all that day, 2 days without a telephone, Wednesday and 
Thursday it was cut off, and Thanksgiving I think, and Friday I got 
my phone back. 

Mr. Rice. Friday your phone came back on? 

Mr. Licata. Automatically, I don't know. God put it in there. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know where it got back from or anything 
else? 

Mr. Licata. No. 

Mr. Rice. What did that have to do with the search of the house ; 
relate that as to the time? 

Mr. Licata. The only thing I could say for the search of the house, 
seeing there was so much valuable things, a wrist watch that I paid for 
my sister wholesale $375, was right on top of the dresser. She had 
a diamond ring 

Mr. Rice. Was this search of the house around the time that you 
made this statement that you had a list? 

Mr. Licata. I made it the day before. 

Mr. Rice. You made it the day before, and bang, the house was 
searched ? 

Mr. Licata. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Since Hackney has been in office has it come to your at- 
tention that he has acquired any property holdings, real estate? 

Mr. Licata. Well, he spent a lot of money in Bradenton Beach. 

Mr. Rice. At Bradenton Beach? 

Mr. Licata. I mean Anna Maria. 

Mr. Rice. Anna Maria. What is he doing down there? 

Mr. Licata. I don't know exactly, so I have heard, I haven't been 
down there, that he has remodeled that and fixed it up and spent a lot 
of money down there. He is building an $8,000 home here on the 
river somewhere, at least he has got a permit for $8,000. God knows 
what he has put in it. 

Mr. Rice. What do you understand the house has actually cost him ? 

Mr. Licata. Well, I haven't seen the house. A friend of mine told 
me, I guess, he put about thirty thousand in it. 

Mr. Rice. He put about $30,000 in it? 

Mr. Licata. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Over in Ybor City, what do they call the Kefauver 
committee ? 

Mr. Licata. Cupo. 

Mr. Rice. What is that? 

Mr. Licata. Cupo. 

Mr. Rice. What is that ? 

Mr. Licata. Who is it, or something. 

Mr. Rice. What does it mean ? 

Mr. Licata. It is like a slang word, cow's foot, or something like 
that, or something, cupo is who was it. 

Mr. Rice. What is the interpretation? 

Mr. Licata. Well, who was it. 



164 ORGANIZED CRIME) IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Who was it. 

Mr. Licata. Who did it, or who was it. 

Mr. Rice. In other words, the search is on? 

Mr. Licata. Yes; that is right. It doesn't mean the search is on. 
In other words, who ate the little red apple, or something like that, 
who was it? 

Mr. Rice. How do yon spell that word, do yon know? 

Mr. Licata. Yon have got me there. 

Senator Hunt. Just to clear the record, yon do not mean by that 
statement that anybody lias the remotest idea, or you do not believe 
that the Kefanver committee searched your home? 

Mr. Licata. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I think yon will be excused. Thank yon, Mr. Licata. 

(Witness excused.) 

Senator Hunt. Hugh Cnlbreath ? 

TESTIMONY OF HUGH CULBREATH, SHERIFF, HILLSBOROUGH 
COUNTY, FLA., ACCOMPANIED BY WILLIAM C. PIERCE, AT- 
TORNEY, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do yon solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I do. 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, we attempted to locate you earlier in the 
day, approximately 5 o'clock, and you had been advised and directed 
to be here. Do you have any statement to make as to the fact that you 
absented yourself? 

Mr. Culbreath. Senator, the only thing that I can say as to my 
excuse, if you would call it such, as to being absent, is that my sub- 
pena was for 9 o'clock tomorrow morning and somebody called me 
on the telephone and said they were Mr. George Martin. I didn't 
know anything about Mr. George Martin, I had never seen him and 
didnt know him, and I said, "What are you doing, pulling a ioke on 
me? ' And he said, "No, this is no ioke.'" "Well," I said, "How do I 
know it is not?" "Well," he said, "You can call the marshal's office 
and check on it, and they want vou up there at 4 o'clock." I said 
Well, I have made other arrangements for this afternoon, I am 
planning on being there in the morning, I have some things to take 
care of and some things I want to do and I haven't had time to do 
I haven t gotten m touch with my attorney and don't know whether he 
can go this afternoon, because I told him it would be tomorrow morn- 
u^t # 9 1 °' clock -" And he said, "Well, you be there," and I said, 
Well, what if I am not." And he said, "Well, call and leave a mes- 
sage." So I immediately called Mr. Pierce at his office and he was out 
and I left a message with his girl to see if she could locate him and I 
immediately tried to locate him, and I had this other appointment, 
so I just didn't get here. I am very sorry if I have put the committee 
out any, but I would have been here tomorrow morning if they had 
just called me and told me to come without serving a subpeha on 
me ; but the legal way was to serve a subpena, and being familiar with 
the service of subpenas and know that you ought to answer them, and 
as a rule, a telephone call or even if you see a man and tell him to be 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 165 

there, sometimes they don't do it. But that is the only reason for 

^eifatof Huxt?' Sheriff, you have been directed by the subpena to 
prod ?e all books, records/files, ledgers, journals, cheeks, check stubs 
cWed checks, bank statements, bank deposit, ^^^^ 
the United States income-tax returns from and including 1941 to date, 
re'aiXAour personal employment, business or businesses, partner- 
ship st^kholderships and property holdings, both rea 1 and personal, 
directly or indirectly. Do you have those records with you' 
Mr Culbreath. Yes, as many as I can produce today, or any other 

^Senator Hunt. Will you present them to the committee at this time ? 

Mr Pierce. As attorney for Mr. Culbreath here, my name is Wil- 
liam C. Pierce, Tampa, and I have most of those records here 

Senator Hunt. All right. Will you turn them m to the staff, Mi . 
Pierce? Now, Sheriff, due to the fact that we will want to examine 
thoe records over the night, and your subpena for 9 :30 m the morning 
still holds good, and if it is agreeable to you, instead of making out 
a new subpena we will change the time, with a mutual understanding, 

t'cS-n SenS wishes me to be here at 9 in the 

m sZtr£^ U W you will. And that is all of the business we 
have with you this evening and you will be excused 

Mr. Pierce. Senator, may I explain what I do have? Here are 
the copies of the income-tax returns for the years 1944 to 1J49, in- 
clusive. I do not have those for the years prior to 1944. 

Mr Culbreath. Could I see those a minute ? 

Mr Pierce. As for the real-estate holdings and the personal-prop- 
erty holdings, in order to be of every benefit to the committee and its 
counsel-I beg your pardon-in this first income-tax return in the 
foldei here, and I only had the folder, and in the folder for the 1944 
tax returns, are the copies of the returns for the prior years, for 1941 
to 1945, inclusive. They are all here, as called tor by the subpena. 
Now in the matter of the realty and personalty holdings, m order to 
be of every possible benefit to the committee and cooperate as fully as 
we know how with the committee in correlating all of this stun. 1 
have made an itemized list of every piece of real estate owned by the 
sheriff, by Sheriff Culbreath, either in his name individually, or m 
his name with Mrs. Culbreath, his wife, or in his name with his brother, 
Ernest, or in his name with his cousin, Harry. One piece of property 
is not even in his name, and we voluntarily disclose it and disclose his 
interest in it. It is in Pinellas County. . . _ . , 

In addition to that, with reference to each itemized piece of prop- 
erty I have listed not onlv the complete description of it, although 
perhaps not as complete as in the deed itself, but enough to give the 
committee, or anyone else, ample knowledge of the facts, even the 
plat books and the pages of the deed books and so forth and have given 
the date of the deeds whereby the sheriff, or those through whom he 
holds acquired title, the date of the recordation of the deed, the deed 
book and page number of where that deed is recorded, either m this 
county or Pinellas, and the consideration paid out for each itemized 
piece of property, so that the committee can have it. I was working 



166 ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

on that this afternoon when I first heard that there had been some 
telephone calls to the sheriff with reference to coming over at 4 
o'clock, and it was still not completed, and that is why the sheriff 
could not readily get in touch with me. I also have the deeds in 
chronological order and attached to each deed is any other data con- 
cerning that particular itemized individual piece of property, which is 
in the sheriff's possession, all attached, and in chronological order — 
not in chronological order as to time— but in chronological order as 
they are listed on the statement. 

Senator Hunt. Does that complete the exhibits, Mr. Pierce, that 
you wish to leave? 

Mr. Pierce. I believe so, Senator, that is, those that I have. I 
might say, Senator — I didn't get to it — on the compilation there, after 
I exhausted all the realty holdings, I then took up the personalty 
holdings, or cash deposits, in all banks, I located the banks and gave 
the approximate amount of the balance on deposit, if I didn't have the 
exact amount and if I have the exact amount such as in local banks, 
1 gave that as to each bank, all bonds, even a boat, I have a boat listed, 
with the boat number in which it is registered. 

(Records of Sheriff Culbreath were identified as exhibit No. 12, and 
were later returned to him. ) 

Senator Hunt. Thank you, Sheriff. We will see you in the morn- 
ing. The committee meeting is recessed until 9 a. m. on tomorrow. 

(Thereupon, the hearing was recessed until 9 a. m., December 30. 
1950.) ' 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



saturday, december 30, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Tampa, Fla. 

The committee, met, pursuant to recess, at 9 a. m., in the United 
States Courthouse in Tampa, Fla., Senator Lester C. Hunt presiding. 

Present : Senator Hunt. 

Also present : Downey Rice and Alfred M. Klein, associate counsel ; 
George Martin and Ralph Mills, investigators. 

TESTIMONY OE ANTHONY DiLORENZO, TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. The committee will come to order. Mr. Anthony 
DiLorenzo, please? 

Mr. DiLorenzo, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I do. 

Mr. Rice. Will you state your name, Mr. DiLorenzo, and your 
address ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Anthony DiLorenzo, 1910 Tenth Avenue. 

Mr. Rice. What is your occupation? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. At present, none. 

Mr. Rice. At present, none ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. You are unemployed ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I am working at the Speedway Park. 

Mr. Rice. What are you doing at the Speedway Park ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I pick up tickets and watch the money box. 

Mr. Rice. What is your salary there, Mr. DiLorenzo? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. $10 a day when they run. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you been working there? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Since they opened, a couple of } T ears. 

Air. Rice. You have been working there a couple of years? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you say you were unemployed ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't say that. You asked me what my occu- 
pation was. That is not an occupation. It is just part-time work. 

Mr. Rice. Just part time? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. They don't race every night or 
every day. They have been 2 nights a week. Now they race once a 
week for the wintertime. 

167 



168 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE* 

Mr. Rice. How long have you lived in Tampa ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I was born and raised at 1910 Tenth Avenue, 
Tampa, Fla. 

Mr. Rice. You have lived there all your life. How much educa- 
tion do you have ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Grammar school. 

Mr. Rice. A grammar-school education. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. What sort of work have you done since you left school ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, I used to be in the piano business, selling 
pianos in 1926 and 1927. In 1930, I went to work for R. T. Joughin, 
sheriff of this county. 

Mr. Rice. What year? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 1930. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. And I worked there until 1941. 

Mr. Rice. Doing what ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Deputy sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. As a deputy sheriff ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. That was 1930 and 1931 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That was from 1930 until almost 1941, off and on. 

Mr. Rice. Until 1941? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean, "off and on" ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, when Joughin went out, I went out; after 
a couple of years — about a year — Spencer gave me a job, and I went 
back to work with him. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do when you were off. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I worked at different things, selling anything 
I could get, and I spent three years at Drew Field, as a civilian guard, 
sergeant of civilian police. 

Mr. Rice. When was that ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 1943 to 1945. 

Mr. Rice. Now, what have you been doing since 1940. Tell me 
about that. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, in 1940, there was an election. In 1941, we 
went out of office ; and, in June 1941, I went to work for the constable 
of this district, my home district in this county. 

Mr. Rice. What doing? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Deputy constable. 

Mr. Rice. But what did you do ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, when the Governor fired us, I went to work 
at the dog track. 

Mr. Rice. What did the Governor fire you for ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Pardon me, Drew Field. I went to work at Drew 
Field. 

Mr. Rice. What did the Governor fire you for ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Hardy Graves was constable at the time. And, 
Mr. Rice, they did the — they are doing the same pattern as they 
are doing now. Jimmy Velasco was wanting to "be a big shot, but he 
couldn't handle me in my district. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 169 

Air DiLorenzo. So I started checking some of his peddlers, and 
he didn't like it. So he said : "You keep on and I am going to get 
Governor Holland to fire you."' He kept his word and we got fired. 
The constable did, in other words ; and I was fired with him. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy Velasco arranged that? 

Air. DiLorenzo. 'He said he was going to do it. 

Air. Rice. Did he tell you that ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Yes; he told me that to my face. He came over 
to my house trying to make a deal to leave this peddler alone. I 
told him I was going to enforce all of the law. 

Air. Rice. That was in 1940. Then, you went to Drew Field as a 
guard. 

Air. DiLorenzo. No ; that was in 1941. 

Air. Rice. 1941? ^ 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. In 1942, I went to Drew *ield 
and I staved until about 1945. 

Air. Rice. Well, from 1945 what have you done ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Well, they started the races out here at Sun- 
shine Park, and I went to work there and at the dog track. 

Air. Rice. Who did you work for out there ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Milo Vega. He was one of the owners. 

Air. Rice. Was he your boss? 

Air. DiLorenzo. No ; 1 was working the mutuels. 

Air. Rice. You were working the mutuels? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. They had some fellow named Mac 
somebody. 

Air. Rice. That was in 1945 ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. I don't know when they opened. I don't remem- 
ber whether it was 1945 or 1946. 

Air. Rice. Did you have any other job during that time? 

Air. DiLorenzo. No; I was' working down at— down there in the 
daytime and part of the time at the dog track at night. 

Air. Rice. You were working daytime? 

Air. DiLorenzo. At Sunshine Park. That was for the 49 days or 
50 days, whatever they were open. 

Air. Rice. After 1945. what did you do? 

Air. DiLorenzo. In March 1945 is when I was released from Drew 
Field. 

Air. Rice. Yes. How about 1946, then? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Well, in 1946, I was mostly working at the dog 
track. 

Air. Rice. Alostly. Did you do any other work? 

Air. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Air. Rice. How about 1947? 

Air. DiLorenzo. 1947, I was working, selling a few automobiles— 
anything I could get. I sold a few cars for a used-car dealer down 
here, but I haven't had anything steady. 

Air. Rice. What is his name? 

Air. DiLorenzo. R. E. AlcLeod, a used-car dealer. 

Air. Rice. What did you do for him ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Sold a few cars once in a while. 

Air. Rice. Once in a while. 

Air. DiLorenzo. And went to St. Petersburg and picked up a car 
and would bring it here and get paid for that. 



170 ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Rice. That was 1947. How about 1948 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No. It wasn't 1947. It has been lately, all along. 

Mr. Rice. What have you done since 1947 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Nothing. Just anything I could get, 

Mr. Rice. Then, from 1947 until lately, which is 1950, you have 
done nothing but sell cars ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, I went to work for Sheriff Culbreath in 
June — June 1 — and the same thing happened there. I was laid off. 

Mr. Rice. What year ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 1948. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do for Sheriff Culbreath? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. He had put me on as a deputy sheriff, and then 
the paper started blasting me again, and I was out again. 

Mr. Rice. Well now, when you went to work as a deputy sheriff did 
you have a badge ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I had a commission. Which I have still got. A 
special commission. 

Mr. Rice. What is that ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That special commission I got in case I do get 
any special work where I need it. You can read for yourself. Pull 
it out and you can see on the back of it. It is a special commission. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, this is supposed to be a certificate of Hugh 
Culbreath, sheriff of Hillsborough County, "appointing Anthony 
DiLorenzo, investigator'' ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No sir. 

Mr. Rice. What is this? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, that is in case I get a job investigating any- 
thing private. Not for the sheriff. Read the back. 

Mr. Rice. I am going to read it, and then we will talk about it 
after I read it. It is — - 

appointing Anthony J. DiLorenzo, investigator, whose signature appears on the 
reverse side hereof, as a deputy sheriff in and for Hillsborough County, Fla., and 
he is authorized to act as deputy sheriff under the laws of the State of Florida 
in said county for the period of one year in the form of this certificate unless 
this commission be sooner revoked, but without any assignment of duties from 
the sheriff's office. 

Witness my hand and seal this 30th of September 1950. 

(Signed) Hugh Culbreath 
Sheriff of Hillsoorough County. (Certificate No. 265). 

This was certified that Anthony J. DiLorenzo, whose signature and 
picture are affixed below, was a special deputy sheriff of Hillsborough 
County, Fla., for the specific purpose set forth on the reverse side of 
this card. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That is true. 

Mr. Rice. Anthony J. DiLorenzo. Now, tell us about that. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, if he needs me in any special work, I am ready 
to do it. 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute now. You have got yourself fixed here 
some time back ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. From the regular payroll, which he would have 
put me on if they had left me alone. I never did get on the payroll. 

Mr. Rice. You never did get on the payroll ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You were on it one time, because you got fired. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 171 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I got on June 1, and on June 2 they blasted me 
in the papers and he had to let me go. 

Mr. Rice. What did they blast you for? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Because they claimed I was working for Hardy 
Graves when the Governor fired him. All the same back story. 

Mr. Rice. So you were blasted. Then, what happened ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, he gave me that special commission where I 
could get special work. 

Mr. Rice. You were a special man? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. If he needs me, why he can use me. 
I get paid for it. ' 

Mr. Rice. Just tell us what some of your duties are as this special 

man? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, I haven't had any duties yet, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute. You have told us already that you did 
special work for him. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I would get it if he has it. 

Mr. Rice. But you never have had it? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I ask him if he has got anything for me to do. 
For instance, when they have got a dance or something at one of these 
places like Rockv Point, and they need a deputy, and we are paid. 

Mr. Rice. Now, look. Let's not be silly about this thing. They 
are not giving you a card for nothing. They are giving you a card 
for something." What was your job? What have you done for the 
sheriff? 

Mr. DiLoren 10. The job that I did would be for myself, not for the 
sheriff. In other words, I have to have protection. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. If I go out investigating here for someone, I will 
have protection and I can carry a gun. 

Mr. Rice. Well this permits you to carry a gun then ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That is what it will amount to. 

Mr. Rice. Now, what guns do you carry ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't carry any. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a gun on you now ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't have to have it now. I am not working- 
no w. 

Mr. Rice. When do you carry a gun? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, I carry one on Sunday when I am working 
af the speedwav. 

Mr. Rice. What do you need a gun at the speedway for? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Watching the money. 

Mr. Rice. What money ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. At the box office out there. They sell tickets out 
there, Mr. Rice. They sell three and four thousand tickets a week. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, you are working for the speedway, not the 
sheriff's office. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. The sheriff gives you a card to carry a gun to work at 
the speedway ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No; the sheriff gives me a gun so that if he ever 
needs me he can call me, and I will be ready. 



172 ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE* 

Mr. Rice. What kind of guns are they ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. One is a 38 short. 

Mr. Rice. A snub nose? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Have you any other guns ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I've got a 6-inch barrel. 

Mr. Rice. You got a 6-inch barrel. What caliber? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 38. 

Mr. Rice. Where are they? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I have got one in the car and one at home. 

Mr. Rice. Which one is in the car ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. The short nose. 

Mr. Rice. The other one is at home ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. The 6-inch barrel. 

Mr. Rice. Why do you keep it at home ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. It's too big to carry in the car. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a holster for it ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When do you carry it with you ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I used to carry it at Drew Field. It was regula- 
tions. We had to carry a 5- or 6-inch at Drew Field. The War De- 
partment let us use them. 

Mr. Rice. What rifle or shotgun do you have ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't have any. 

Mr. Rice. You don't have any ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever had ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I never had a shotgun. 

Mr. Rice. You never had a shotgun. Did you ever have a rifle ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Not since 1940 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, not since anytime. 

Mr. Rice. You have never had a shotgun or rifle ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I may have had it, but I never carried it. 

Mr. Rice. You had it, but you never carried it? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. In other words, I might have handled it at the 
jail, but I never had any of my own. 

Mr. Rice. Was that 'the only place that you ever handled them? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. I may have handled them in stores or 
somewhere, where they sell arms, but I never owned it. 

Mr. Rice. Have you any weapons that your son-in-law has? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. My son-in-law? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I think it is an old Spanish gun I got. 

Mr. Rice. Did you give it to him ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. I don't know whether it will shoot 
or not. It is an old Spanish automatic, 

Mr. Rice. An automatic? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. What did you give it to him for ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IK' INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 173 

Mr DiLorenzo Well, lie is in the Army at Drew Field, and he 
alwlysSe wanted a gun and I got that one. I had ,t, and I don't 

TSwht dfdlouteli him when you 2 ave it to him? . 
Mr! DiLorexzo: I just told him I picked it up and let him have 

Mr Rice. How lon<r ago was that ? 

Mr! DiLorenzo. Oh, several months ago. 

Mr. Rice. What caliber is that ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I never got any shells tor it. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever shoot it % 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure about that i 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you get it i 

Mr DiLorenzo. I don't remember. 

1£ SSRE^lomZhere, I don't know. A man who has been 
in office as long as I have, has picked up guns many times. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, you've picked up a lot ot guns I 

Mr. DiLorenzo". No, I don't. 

Mr Rice. Where did vou get it ? . 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I usually turned them in at the ]ail when I was m 
the sheriff's office. 

Mr. Rice. I am asking you where you got it « 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That particular one? 

Mr. Rice. This Spanish gun? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, yes, you do. i_^ TO 

Mr DiLorenzo^. Maybe some pawn shop somewhere, 1 don t know. 

Mr. Rice. I am not interested in maybe. I want to know where you 

got it. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember. 

Mr Rice. O.K.. where do you think you got it i 

Mr! DiLorenzo. I don't know. I might have gotten it when Jer- 
ry was sheriff, I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You mean you took it off of someone i 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No. They got a lot of ]unk up there that they 

discard. , , i ™a 

Mr. Rice. Thev got a lot of junk guns that anyone can take off i 

Mr. DiLorenzo". That's all that is. 

Mr. Rice. Just a junk gun? . . 

Mr. DiLorenzo. that particular one I imagine it is, because 1 
don't even know if it would shoot. 

Air Rice You gave it to your son-in-law to protect nimseli . 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't give it to my son-in-law to protect him- 
self. He wanted a gun and I gave it to him, and as long as he doesn t 
carry it, I said. "You can have this one if you can find shells tor it. 
I don't know whether he can find shells for it. 

Mr. Rice. It's just a piece of junk \ 

Mr. DiLorenzo. To me, it is. 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 12 



174 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Rice. Now, where were you in December of 1948? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. I was working at the Speedway Park. 
Mr. Rice. Were you a deputy then? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Special commission. 
Mr. Rice. The same as this ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. It might have read different, but it 
was special commission. 

Mr. Rice. Do you remember when Jimmy Velasco was killed \ 
Mr. DiLorenzo. I know the date, yes. 
Mr. Rice. You know the date ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Because it was — because they called me at nio-ht 
and told me. 

Mr. Rice. Who called you ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. A friend of mine called me and says, "Have you 
heard the news ? " I said, "No ; what is it ? " 
Mr. Rice. Who was your friend \ 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember who it was. I do know that I 
called down at the jail and I said. "Is it true that Jimmy has been 
killed?' And they said, "yes." 

Mr. Rice. What time of night was Jimmy killed? 
, , M o DlLoREXZO - I do»'t remember. I had just gotten home We 
left Speedway Park at dark and I had just gotten home. I don't 
remember. I don't know what time he got killed. I know the time I 
got home. 

Mr. Rice. It was night, was it not ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. I got home about 7 o'clock. 
Mr. Rice. Where had you been? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. At Speedway Park. 
Mr. Rice. You had been to the park ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes ; working, taking up tickets. 
Mr. Rice. When they called you, what did you do ? 
M. DiLorenzo I called them at the jail to verify it, if it was 
true, and they said, "Yes," it was true. 
Mr. Rice. And then what did you do ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't do anything. What could I do ? 
Mr. Rice. Did you go to Velasco's house ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Of course not. It wasn't any of my business I 
wasn't working for the sheriff's office. 
Mr. Rice, You didn't go to pick up anyone, to investigate? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. You were a special deputy? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. No ; I didn't pick up anyone. 
Mr. Rice. Did you do any investigating? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. No. 
Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. You were at Speedway Park? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That night I was. We raced there that afternoon. 
Mr. Rice. How did you draw your money at Speedway Park? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. In cash. 
Mr. Rice. Who paid you? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. George Spoto. 
Mr. Rice. George Spoto paid you? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE 175 

Mr. DiLorenzo. He is the general manager, the treasurer. 

Mr. Rice. Do they deduct social security on that? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I think he does. 

Mr. Rice. You think he does? „ . 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I am not sure. He gives me a $10 bill a lot ot 
times, or nickels, whatever change I ask him, I don't recall. 

Mr. Rice. And thev pay you in cash ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That is right. He pays all of them in cash. 

Mr. Rice. Did you pay Federal income tax \ 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, 1 haven't had any to pay. I haven t made 
enough to pay. 

Mr. Rice. You haven't made enough to pay ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you file a return ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I have, except these last -2 years. 

Mr. Rice. For the last 2 years you have not filed a return ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What have you been living on ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I haven't been making over the limit. 

Mr. Rice. What have you been living on ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Mr. Rice, I haven't been working most all of my 
life. I haven't got no habit, I don't drink and I don't smoke and I 
have saved the few dollars which I have been using, and there is only 
my boy and I. My daughter is married. 

Mr/ Rice. You are supporting your boy ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What with? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. It don't take much to support my boy. I got my 
own home and don't have to pay rent. 

Mr. Rice. What do you eat on? Don't be silly about this. You 
get money? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Certainly. I get a car at McLeod s and go and 

sell it. 

Mr. Rice. How much money have you made selling cars ( 
Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember offhand. 

Mr. Rice. You cannot live off of nothing. How many cars have 
you sold in the last 2 years ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Several cars. 

Mr. Rice. One? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir ; more than one. 

Mr Rice. Two? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. More than two. 

Mr. Rice. Three? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Mr. Rice, I don't remember offhand, because I 
have been having enough worry lately. I have been sick and my wife 
has been sick, a nervous wreck, and I have been having enough trouble 
that I don't remember what I have sold or what I haven't sold. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know how many cars you have sold? And 
you are selling them. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Whenever I get any to sell. 

Mr. Rice. Hue vou sold any cars for anyone besides McLeod? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. So he knows how many you have sold? 



176 ORGANIZED CRIME) IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I imagine so. 
Mr. Rice. He has records ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't know whether he keeps records of what 
he sells. He does keep records of what he sells ; he don't know who 
sells them; he don't put down who sells them, the sale of the car but 
not the salesman. 

Mr. Rice, He knows what you got, does he not ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That all depends. Sometimes I get what he pays 
me and sometimes more, like tires. 

Mr. Rice. How much have you made in the last 2 years sellino- 
tires, approximately ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. $100? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I imagine it has been more than that 

Mr. Rice. $200? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember, Mr. Rice. I am not goino- to 
tell you one thing or another because I don't remember. 1 am^not 
going to tell you something where I am not sure of it. 

Mr. Rice. You may be compelled to tell. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. If I am not sure, how can I tell you ? 

Mr. Rice. You can tell us approximately, what you made. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I owe him $400, that I know. 

Mr. Rice. You owe him $400 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I owe him $400. I have been borrowing from him 

Mr. Rice. So you borrowed $400 from him ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. So you, at least, have sold some cars ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How many ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. This last year I may have sold two or three of 
them. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you make out of them ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I made $50 out of each one of the two of them 
and I think $25 on the other. 

Mr. Rice. How about the year before? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember that far back. 

Mr. Rice. Two cars ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. It might have been more. I make trips to St. 
Petersburg to pick up cars for him and I get paid for that. 

Mr. Rice. Where do you eat ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Home. 

Mr. Rice. Where do you get your groceries ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Grocery store. 

Mr. Rice. And what do you use to pay for them ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Money. 

Mr. Rice. Where do you get the money ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That is what I have been getting-. 

Mr. Rice. What? to 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I have been getting $20 a week at the Speedway 
.Park alone up until a couple of weeks ago, when we were working 
only one Sunday. 

Mr. Rice. You have been getting $20 a week plus selling some cars ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That is right. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 177 

Mr Rice. How about tax returns? 

Mr DiLorenzo. That has been this year. 

Air. Rice. You said not for the last couple of years. 

Mr T)tT,orfxzo Last year I didn't make over $oUU. 

Mr H n And 'if m n Lit make over $500 you not supposed to file? 

Mr DiLoBESzo. I don't dispute that you are not supposed to. I 

^ItarMbt**.*, d0 you remem ber Jimmy Lumia* 

Mr. DiLorenso. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you know him ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr Rice. What business did you have with him « 

Mr DiLorenzo. I didn't have any business for him except selling 
kerosene for him. He used to be in the oil business and I used to call 

mi or his truck to bring kerosene to my house whenever we needed it. 
That is the only businesl I ever had with Jimmy Lumia, not with him 
direct, but with his truck driver. 

Air Rice. When did you see him last* 

Mr DiLorenzo. Oh, I don't know. I used to see him pass by my 
sisters 1 ouse most all of the time. I have a sister who lives on 
Twelfth Street, and Jimmy Lumia lives farther down on Twelfth 

Street. . - 

Air. Rice. Have you seen him this year i 

Air. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Air Rice. Not in 1950? . , 

Air. DiLorenzo. I might have seen him in the street to wave at 
him. but to talk, I didn't. 

Air. Rice. What happened to him i 

Air. DiLorenzo. He got shot. 

Air. Rice. What with ? , _ . 

Air. DiLorenzo. I don't know. What I seen m the paper he must 
have gotten shot with a shotgun, the papers said. 

Air. Rice. When did that happen? 

Air. DiLorenzo. In June sometime. 

Air. Rice. In the morning or afternoon ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. It was in the morning. 

Air. Rices Where were you that morning? 

Air DiLorenzo. I was at AlacDill Field picking up my daughtei 
to bring her home. She had been at the hospital out there. 

Air. Rice. What time was that? 

Air. DiLorenzo. We got there 

Mr. Rice. Who is "we"? „ , . , , , ,. 

Air. DiLorenzo. Aly wife and I. We left here about, oh, I don t 
know ; 9 o'clock or 9 :30. It may be before that. 

Mr. Rice. What time was he killed? 

Air. DiLorenzo. I don't know what time he got killed. I knew 
when I got back. 

Air. Rice. Go ahead. . . 

Air DiLorenzo. And I went to AlacDill and picked up my daugh- 
ter. She had been in the hospital, and got back home ; my daughter s 

Air. Rice. And when did you learn that he was killed ? 
Air. DiLorenzo. That same day. 



178 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Rice. What time? 

Mr DiLorenzo. I think I seen it in the paper, some kids yellino- 
I don't remember what time it was. to ~ 

Mr. Rice. Approximately what time was it « 

Mr DiLorenzo. It was after the first edition of the Times came 
out, Mr. Kice. I don't remember what time it was 

Mr. Rice. After the first Times was out? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir ; that is right. 

Mr. Rice. Where were you when you found out about it ? 

Mr DiLorenzo I heard the kid yelling and I didn't pay much 
attention and I got home and I don't remember now whether I called 
someone to find out for sure. I believe it was the people in the neigh- 
borhood said, when I went upstairs. & 

Mr. Rice. Who did you call ? 

C f }?' D ^TT ' ? o/ T That is true " Jt was the old lady down- 
stairs said she heard in the news-Spanish news-that Jimmy Lumia 
had been killed. That is the way it was. * 

Mr. Rice. Do you know who killed him ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do when you got the news? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Nothing. 

Mr. Rice. You said you called someone. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Oh, I called my wife and told her. 

Mr. Rice. You were with your wife ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No ; my wife lives with her mother. 

Mr TmZJ? idyou not say that she went with you to the hospital? 

Mr. DiLorenzo 1 hat is right. I went and picked her up. 

Mr. Rice. And then what did you do « 

mv^SfTi W e went to the hospital and came back and I left 
my daughter and her at her house. 
Mr. Rice. At whose house ? 

Mr. ES™oufeT ther - in " laW ' S h °" Se ' and 1 ™« °» h0me - 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes: that is rio-ht 
Mr. Rice. Then what? & ' 

tlif r *T DlL0RE T NZa - Then I , Called her ll P and T ^id that I just heard 
about iT my 8 ^ klUed and She Said ' ^ es ' that she bSSS 

Mr. Rice. Then what did vou do « 

Mr* S T I ^ R wf °' rf a ^ ilig - I W6 ^ back to m ? wife and daughter. 
Mr. Kice. Why did vou leave them ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. She lives with her mother: my wife lives with 
her mother and my daughter had just come out of the hospital. 

Mr. Rice. I ou took the daughter home? 

Mr DiLorenzo. That is right. I went home to eat and then I 
went back. You see, I eat at home. Mr Rice 

Mr. Rice. You are sure that you did not eat at a drive-in that day? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. We went to a drive-in at noon, but I didn't eat 
anything My wife and daughter did. I drank a Coca-Cola I 
had already had, you can call it lunch or breakfast, whatever vou wish 
but my wife and daughter did. 

Mr. Rice. Before you went to the hospital that morning, where 
were you ? 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 179 

Mr. DiLorexzo. I was home until my son-in-law called me. 

Mr. Rice. All right, you were home. You slept home that night, 

did vou ? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. Yes, sir; with my boy. 

Mr. Rice. What time did you get up? _ 

Mr. DiLorexzo. I hadn't got up when my son-in-law called me. 1 
was still in bed when he called me. 

Mr. Rice. Your son-in-law called you? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. He is at MacDill Field ? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Then what happened? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. He told me that my daughter was ready to come 
home. 

Mr. Rice. From the hospital ? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. From the hospital. 

Mr. Rice. That was early, 7 or 7 : 30 ? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. No ; it was somewhere between 8 and 9. I am not 
sure now. And said that she would be ready to go home and I called 
my wife and told her to get ready, we were going to get my daughter. 

Mr. Rice. You called your wife and told her to get ready? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. That is right, 

Mr. Rice. Then what did you do? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. As soon as I dressed I went over and got my wife 
and we went to the hospital. 

Mr. Rice. That was about 9 : 30 ? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. I don't know for sure what time it was. It was 
somewhere between 9— maybe before that, because we got home— I 
don't recall the time. . 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, when you got to the hospital, had 
not your daughter got tired of waiting for you to come, and gone off 
somewhere, and you could not find her? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. That is right. We had a long wait out there 
for her. 

Mr. Rice. What happened ? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. She said she had to wait somewhere. But we did 
find her out there. 

Mr. Rice. What time did you find her? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't know ; maybe 10. 

Mr. Rice. Later than that? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. It could have been. I didn't keep any track of 
the time it was, I didn't have nothing to do and didn't make any dif- 
ference to me whether I stayed 1 hour or 10 hours. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure you did not go anywhere else that morning? 
Mr. DiLorexzo. Did I go anywhere else ? 
Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DiLorexzo. Before or after I went to MacDill Field? 
Mr. Rice. Before going to the hospital. 
Mr. DiLorexzo. No ; I went to my wife's. 

Mr. Rice. And the only place you went was to your wife's house 
and the hospital? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. That is right. 



180 ORGAjSTIZED CRIMEl IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Senator Hunt. Mr. DiLorenzo, we will excuse you from the witness 
chair at this time. Your subpena will hold. Keep yourself available 
and in readiness to be recalled at the convenience of the committee. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. Are you going to keep that card? Are 
you going to keep that card? I may need it tomorrow. I may go to 
work tomorrow, and I need it. 

Mr. Rice. We may want to ask Sheriff Culbreath about it. We will 
give it to you today. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. All right. I want to get it as soon as possible, be- 
cause I've got to work tomorrow. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Stick around. 

Senator Hunt. I would like to suggest to you, Mr. DiLorenzo, that 
you remain in the courtroom. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 
(The witness was excused.) 

Senator Hunt. The committee is requesting Marshal Crumbley to 
present Marvin H. Gardner and Mrs. Marvin H. Gardner in the court- 
room at his first convenience. 

Will you give Sheriff Culbreath a ring if he is not available in the 
courtroom, and tell him we now wish his presence here? 

Mr. Crumbley. I will call him right now. 

Senator Hunt. Since the sheriff isn't here, we want to ask Mr. Di- 
Lorenzo a couple of questions. Mr. DiLorenzo, will you please take 
the stand for a minute again ? 

(Thereupon Anthony DiLorenzo returned to the stand.) 

Mr. Rice. What is the address of Marvin H. Gardner? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 107 East Ross. 

Mr. Rice. Ross? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. 107 East Ross? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What is the telephone number there ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 261561. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Now, since 1947, have you ever received any 
money from Red Italiano? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You never received an envelope from him? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever received any money from Sheriff Cul- 
breath ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Off and on, I don't remember, it was different, for 
special work I did for him he will pay me so much. 

Mr. Rice. What was the special work ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. He had me on for a while, trying to find out some- 
thing about this gambling going on here. 

Mr. Rice. About the gambling? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Weil, I knew a few of the people. 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 181 

Mr. Rice. You knew a few of the people? , . 

Mr DiLorenzo. Yes. sir: that's right, who were m the business. 

Mr. Rice. Who did you know \ Did you know Primo* 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you work on him? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Air. Rice. Who did vou work on ? . 

Mr. DiLorenzo. What do you mean, "work on him ? I work on 
any of them if I knew who they were. 

Mr. Rice. What did the sheriff tell you to do? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. He told me to get all the information I could on 
any gambling in Hillsborough County. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do? 

Air. DiLorenzo. I did some of the— I got some of them. 

Air. Rice. Where did you get them? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Different ones at the time, I give them names. 

Air. Rice. What names did you give them ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember now— different ones that i knew 
Were selling bolita and where they were selling it. 

Air Rice. Can you remember one ; one name \ 

Air. DiLorenzo. No, I don't. 

Air. Rice. You can't remember their names, you clont remember 

their names? • , n -. , 

Air DiLorenzo. I just remembered who they were and told tnem 
who they were, and he sent his men sometimes and got them and some- 
times he didn't get them. 

Air. Rice. What did you get paid for that ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. He give me different; sometimes $2o or %6KS. It 
depends. 

Air. Rice. $25 or $30? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Sometimes. 

Air. Rice. When was this ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. It's been off and on since 

Air. Rice. Was any of it in 1950 ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. No. 

Air. Rice. You haven't received any money 

Air. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Air. Rice. Did you do any work in 1950 ? 

Air. DiLorenzo". Not from the sheriff. 

Air. Rice. Not from the sheriff \ 

Air. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Air. Rice. Are you sure about that? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Air. Rice. How about 1949 ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Yes, I think I had a few cases, not many. 

Air. Rice. You had a few cases in 1949 ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Air. Rice. About how many ? 

Air. DiLorenzo. I don't remember. 

Air. Rice. Six? t ti 

Air DiLorenzo. Whatever he wanted me to do, I have always done 



it 



Air. Rice. How much money did you receive from him for that? 



182 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Oh, I don't know, altogether. I never did keep 
track of it. 

Mr. Rice. Did he pay you in cash ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kice. Did he give it to you in an envelope ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where did it come from ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. He took it out of his pocket. 

Mr. Rice. Where did it come from ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. He took it out of his pocket ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where did that take place ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. At the sheriff's office. 

Mr. Rice. Would you go to the sheriff's office ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And he would take money out of his pocket ? 

Mr DiLorenzo. Whenever I have any case anytime I go to see him 
off and on, and ask him if there is any work for me. 

Mr. Rice. And when he had work 

Mr. DiLorenzo. When he has work he tells me 

Mr. Rice. What did he say? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. He says he— of course he always tell me, "If you 
know anybody who is violating any gambling law, let me know." ■ 

Mr Rice. When you would go out would you use your investigator's 
card? J , 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What would you do? What were you— an undercover 
man? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, I guess you would call it that. 
Mr. Rice. Well, how much money did you make from that in 1949, 
last year ? » 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't remember, Mr. Rice. 
Mr. Rice. Do you have a bank account ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. How much cash do you have? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. About $200. 
Mr. Rice. Where is that ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. In my pocket.. 
Mr. Rice. Is that all you have ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. About $240 or $250. 
Mr. Rice. Do you have any safe deposit box ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. Do you have any other resources ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. That is all you have ? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. Do you own your home? 
Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. How much is that worth ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, the location it is, it ain't worth over $3 000 
Mr. Rice. $3,000? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir. It was given to me by my mother. It 
was really my father's home. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMENCE 183 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a car? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What kind? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. A 1947 Dodge. 

Mr. Rice. A 1947 Dodge? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. When did you get that? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I traded my Plymouth on that. It was second- 
hand, a second-hand car. 

Mr. Rice. When? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. In 1948. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you pay for it under your trade ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't pay anything. I sold my Plymouth and 
turned around and bought this Dodge. 

Mr. Rice. What year Plymouth was it ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. A 1946. 

Mr. Rice. You traded a 1946 Plymouth for a 1947 Dodge? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I sold my Plymouth and I had this fellow, a friend 
of mine, buy me this Dodge, which cost me what the Plymouth was 
worth. 

Mr. Rice. Now, do you own any property? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Except my home. 

Mr. Rice. Except your home? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a safe deposit box ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No. 

Mr. Rice. Your car and your home? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you get the $200 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I've been saving it. 

Mr. Rice. From when? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. From different times, all along for this past year. 

Mr. Rice. For the past year? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Did any of this 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Five dollars today, ten the next time, and so on. 

Mr. Rice. So that the $200 is money left over from last year ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No; it's money I've been accumulating, saving it 
for any emergency, sickness or anything. 

Mr. Rice. What do you live on ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. What I make during the week. 

Mr. Rice. What you make during the week ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. And you just hold this $200? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Are you going to file an income tax return this year ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Yes, sir, as soon as I get this return from Speed- 
way Park. 

Mr. Rice. Did you get a return from Speedway Park last year ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. No; I don't think we did last year. We didn't 
work last year all continual like we did this year. It was only once a 
week last year out there. They started racing nights the last part 
of this year. 



184 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Rice. How did it happen that you didn't have to use the $200 
last year? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't have $200 last year. 

Mr. Rice. Where did the $200 come from ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I have been accumulating it, $5 and so on, and 
I've just got it now up to about $200. 

Mr. Rice. You accumulated it this year, then? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. All along, from last year on up. 

Mr. Rice. I am confused 

Mr. DiLorenzo. You are confused and you are getting me con- 
fused now. 

Mr Rice. You said in the beginning of the year you didn't have any- 
thing saved. 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't say no such thing, Mr. Rice. You didn't 
ask me if I had 

Mr. Rice. Where did the $200 come from ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I told you I have been getting it. If I make $10 
this week and don't spend it all, I save it. Up till now I've got this 
much which is all the money I've got. 

Mr. Rice. Can you say this : That as of January 1, 1950, you did 
not have the $200 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I didn't have the 200, but I had part of the 200. 

Mr. Rice. How much of it did you have? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Maybe $50, maybe $60, maybe $70. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. At the beginning of the year you had $50? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Maybe $75. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. All right; $75 you had at the beginning of the year. Is 
that right ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Well, maybe I had $75. 

Mr. Rice. All right, $75, that is all you had? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Somewhere around that. I'm not sure how much 
I had. 

Mr. Rice. Less than $100? 

How much money have you made this year? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. This year we have been running out there twice 
a week. 

Mr. Rice. How much money have you made ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I don't know yet. I will know when I get my 
income. 

Mr. Rice. When you work twice a week 

Mr. DiLorenzo. It's $20 a week. 

Mr. Rice. You have made $20 each week this year ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Not every week, but since they have run it, raced 
at night time. 

Mr. Rice. How long has that been ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. It started — I don't remember when they actually 
started, but they have been racing out there — when they closed at 
Phillips Field they opened out there. 

Mr. Rice. How many weeks have they been running? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. They've been running each Sunday. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know how long ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. They've been running once a week about 2 years. 

Mr. Rice. Have you worked every Sunday ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 185 

Mr DiLorexzo. Mostly every Sunday. 

& ^L E o^o ly ^;iif U, S»;-et„„es on Sunday I was sick and 

dl Mx R°ce. How many Sundays did you work? 

Mr DiLorexzo. Every Sunday they raced. 

] •. Rice. There are only 50. weeks in the year up .to no^ 

Mr. DiLorexzo. When it rams we don't rac el hat s the reason 
I can't tell you, because there have been a lot of Sundays it rained. 

A1Y "Rice" Have you worked 25 Sundays? 

Mr. DiLorexzo' I don't know, but as soon as I get my return 1 11 let 

y< M?BraB You got the money for working Sundays. 

Mr DiLorexzo" Sundays and during the week when we raced. 

Mr Rice How much have you earned during the week i 

Mr. DiLoreZ. When it was during the week they raced two 

111 Mr? Rice. How long have they been running? 
Mr. DiLorexzo. About 2 years. 
Air Rice. Every week? ' 

Sir" DiLorexzo. Every week when it doesn t ram. 

Mr dIShS" ^havelot-a chart out there, Mr. Eice, of how 

m S S K Tc^'o"Z p^anr-PPort money to your wife* 
Air. DiLorexzo. Yes. 
Air. Rice. How much ? 
Air. DiLorexzo. $50 a month. 
Air Rice. $50 a month ? 
Mr. DiLorexzo. That's right. . 

Air. Rice. Have you been paying that this year I 
Mr. DiLorexzo. Yes, sir. 

Air. Rice. You pay $50 a month now to your wife I 
Mr. DiLorexzo. Yes. 

Air Rice. Where does that come from \ _ 
Mr' DiLorexzo. From money I've been making. 

Mr DzSaSr Sfc reason I couldn't save more. I got a 
little money from my mother. She had a little money, not much. 

Mr. Eice. When did you buy that suit you hare on? 

Mr. DiLorexzo. This suit? 

\r.. T?Tr'v Yes. 

Mr! DiLorexzo. About a year and a half ago. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you pay for it I 

Air. DiLorexzo. $32.50. 

Air. Rice. Where did you get it? 

Air. DiLorexzo. Stein's. 

Air. Rice. All right. Xow . 

Air DiLorexzo. That is the only one I got, by the way, Mr. Kice 

Mr Rice I think what you had better do, Mr. DiLorenzo, is step 
off the stand for a while and think it over. You are presenting a story 
here where you are making a few dollars, supporting yourself and 
your son and wife, buying clothes, paying utilities, doctor bills, 
food 



186 ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. DiLorenzo. I can brine: von 



Mr. Rice. Don't argue with me, now— driving a car, and all of this 
apparently, on thin air. ' 

Mr. DiLorenzo. Mr. Rice 

Mr. Rice. We will give you an opportunity a little later on to 
explain it. 

Mr. DiLorezo. Mr. Rice I can tell you that now. I hate to bring 
all my personal affairs m, but it's got to be. I have been borrowing 
money from my family, borrowing money from mv friends and 
darned near everybody that knows me. If /ou want them I ^ can bring 
them over. I've got two sisters and their families that have been 

SwS r ne} i McL ? od ^f s " me money off and on-about 
$400, m Inch I owe him yet. This is all a front that you see, that's all 
I need a job, yes. I am trying to find a job every week 

Mr. Rice. All right. Suppose we excuse you for a while. 

Mr. Klein. Mr. DiLorenzo, what is that number? Will you tell us 
that telephone number. y lls 

Mr. DiLorenzo. 261561. 

Mr. Klein. 261561 ? 

Mr. DiLorenzo. That's right. 

Mr. Klein. Thank you. 

nW? t0r HUNT - Y ° U ai ' e exoused " Ml - DiLorenzo. Sheriff Culbreath, 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF HUGH CULBREATH, SHERIFF HILLS 
BOROUGH COUNTY, FLA., ACCOMPANIED BY WILLIAM C PIERCE 
ATTORNEY, TAMPA, FLA. ""^ 

Senator Hunt. The sheriff has been sworn, Mr Rice 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Have you been sworn ? 

Mr. Culrbeath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What year were you born, Sheriff 8 

Mr. Culbreath. 1897. 

Mr. Rice. In Florida ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Right here in Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. How much education did you have 8 

Mr. Culbreath. Oh, about 2 years of college. 

Mr. Rice. You finished college when ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I didn't finish college. 

Mr. Rice. You finished your 2 years when 8 

Mr. Culbreath. When the First World War broke out. 

Mr. Rice. Then what did you do ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I went to the Armed Forces 

Mr. Rice. What did you do when you left the Army 8 

for An^uTc™' "*"" * °"" e ^ ° f " le ^ I ' TOt t0 ™* 

Mr. Rice. For Armour & Co., here in Tampa 8 

Mr. Culbreath. Right. 

Mr. Rice. As a what ? 

Mr. Culbreath. As a helper in the beef cooler « 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What was your salary in those good old days 8 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, that's pretty hard to remember I think 
it was about $15 to $20, somewhere alono- there 



ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 187 

Mr. Kice. This was one of your first jobs, wasn't it? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. I wasn't but about 18 or 19 years old 
then. __ . 

Mr. Rice. You were a little older than that. 1 ou said you were 
born in 1897, didn't you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. 1 897, and 1 am 53 now. 
Mr. Rice. That was '21. 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't remember all those things, but I know the 
year I was born. 

Air. Rice. How long did you work for Armour & Co. ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Oh, around 3 years. 
Mr. Rice. Around 3 years ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Rice. And then what happened ? 
Mr. Culbreath. I left them. 
Mr. Rice. What did you do then ? 
Mr. Culbreath. I accepted a better position. 
Mr. Rice. You got a better job. What was that I 
Mr. Culbreath. Selling meat with another company. 
Mr. Rice. What company was that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I had better interrupt you here. It seems like you 
are skipping some part of it. Maybe it will be material to what you 
are getting to. 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, might I suggest that you just answer the 
questions so we won't get into any long discussions. I think if you 
will just answer the questions as they are asked, then if we miss any 
of it that will be our bad luck. 

Mr. Culbreath. I know, but I don't want to be made to look 

Mr. Rice. You went from Armour & Co. where ? 

Air. Culbreath. St. Louis Independent Packing Co. 

Air. Rice. Here in town ? 

Air. Culbreath. St. Louis, Alo. 

Air. Rice. You worked out there ? 

Air. Culbreath. I worked for the St. Louis Independent Packing 
Co. ; yes. 

Air. Rice. What salary did you draw there? 

Air. Culbreath. A commission. 

Air. Rice. How long were you with them ? 

Air. Culbreath. Approximately 7 years. 

Air. Rice. Seven years? 

Air. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Air. Rice. Did you get married during that time ? 

Air. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Air. Rice. When were you married ? 

Air. Culbreath. Before I left Armour. 

Air. Rice. What year was that? 

Air. Culbreath. I think that was in '19. 

Mr. Rice. You remember that ? 

Air. Culbreath. Yes, sir. You can't put me on the spot with that. 
You know I have to go home tonight if you will let me. 

Air. Rice. How many children do you have? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have two. 

Mr. Rice. Two children ? 

Air. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 



188 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE; 

Mr. Kick. A boy and a girl? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Two boys? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Is one living at home? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mi-. Rice. Both of them 

Mr. Culbreath. Now both of them are gone. One of them was 
living at home until Tuesday. 
Mr. Rice. One of them just left? 

Mr. Culbreath. One of them just left, He is now in the mountains 
of Pennsylvania on his honeymoon. 

Mr. Rice. You were with the St. Louis company for 7 years, then 
w hat — during that time what was your approximate annual earnings 
on your commissions ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That will be awfully hard to tell you. 
Mr. Rice. Well, approximately. 

Mr. Culbreath. I made ten or twelve thousand a year. 
Mr. Rice. During those years ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes sir. 

Mr. Rice. When were your children born? What years? 
Mr. Culbreath. The oldest boy is 29 and the youngest boy is 24. 
The oldest boy is in the Navy. He'is a graduate of the Naval Academy 
and he is stationed in San Francisco. He is on the admiral's staff on 
the western frontier. The youngest boy is working. 

Mr. Rice. Who was your immediate superior at the St. Louis Pack- 
ing Co. ? 

Mr. Culbreath. He is dead, I think. I think his name was either 
Buchanan or Bischoff — something like that, but I think they are 
both dead. 
Mr. Rice. Is it still in existence ? 
Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. What became of it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. It was bought by Swift & Co., I think. 
Mr. Rice. Absorbed by Swift ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You were with them 7 years. Were you working in this 
area? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You were the local representative ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I brought in the first route car into this part of 
the country. These people in this part of the world didn't know what 
a route car was until I started with St. Louis Independent. The first 
fresh loins of pork that were shipped here were shipped by them. 
Mr. Rice. Why did you leave the St. Louis Co. ? 
Mr. Culbreath. I left the St. Louis Co. to go with another packer. 
Mr. Rice. Who was that? 
Mr. Culbreath. I think it was John Morrell. 
Mr. Rice. How long were you with John Morrell ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Well, that was less than a month, I think. Excuse 
me — less than a year. 
Mr. Rice. Where is John Morrell now ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME) IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 189 

Mr. Culbreath. They have two or three companies. One is in 
Sioux Falls, S. Dak., and one is in Wichita Falls, I think they have 
another one now. 

Mr. Klein. Austin, Minn. 

Mr. Culbreath. Austin, Minn. 

Mr. Rice. Were you working for them under the same arrange- 
ment — commissions ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. When I worked for John Morrell I think it 
was $150 — a $150 a week job, but I am not positive about that. 

Mr. Rice. About what year was that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Now you have got me. 

Mr. Rice. Well, approximately? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I was with Armour around 3 years and I 
was with St. Louis about 7, and it followed that. You can figure that 
out for me. 

Mr. Rice. About 1930? 

Mr. Culbreath. I wouldn't say 1930, no. You see me later and I'll 
get a pencil and work it out for you. 

Mr. Rice. Let's work it out now. 

Mr. Culbreath. I won't attempt to do that. 

Mr. Rice. Why not? 

Mr. Culbreath. Because I can't attempt to say whether it was 1930, 
1932, or 1931. 

Mr. Rice. You can add 7 and 3, can't you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; I can add 7 and 3. 

Mr. Rice. You started right after the war. 

Mr. Culbreath. I am giving it to you the way I remember it. You 
are asking me for answers 

Mr. Rice. I want to know what year you were with Morrell. 

Mr. Culbreath. I said I didn't know. You can contact Morrell 
and get that record. 

Mr. Rice. Which you can*t remember? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I wouldn't attempt to do that. 

Mr. Rice. Can you come within 2 years of when that was ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I wouldn't say that I could. 

Mr. Rice. After you left John Morrell, what did you do ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I went with Jacob E. Decker & Sons. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I sold meat. 

Mr. Rice. Where is their head office? 

Mr. Culbreath. They are in Sioux Falls — wait a minute — Mason 
City. Iowa. 

Mr. Rice. How long did you work with them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Approximately 6 or 7 years, or 8 years. 

Mr. Rice. What years were those? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I can tell you better when I left them. I 
think it was about 1934, 1933, or 1934. when I finished with Jacob E. 
Decker & Sons. 

Mr. Rice. You were with them 7 years ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir ; approximately 7 years. 

Mr. Rice. And that was from 1934? 

Mr. Culbreath. No — yes, 1933 or 1934. 

Mr. Rice. That was in a depression, wasn't it ? 

68958— 51— pt. la 13 



190 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

]\Ir. Culbreath. I think it was depression along then. 

Mr. Rice. What did yon earn with Decker? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I earned various amounts. 

Mr. Rice. What was your approximate annual income? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, some weeks I would make 

Mr. Rice. Annually? 

Mr. Culbreath. That's going to be hard to say, but I imagine it 
was around, maybe, eight or nine or ten thousand dollars. 

Mr. Rice. During the depression ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, there is something wrong with my addition, I 
think. 

Mr. Culbreath. There could be. 

Mr. Rice. Because I have got 7 years with one company, 7 years 
with another, 3 years with another, 1 year with another. Eighteen 
years, I have, after World War I, and only up to 1934. 

Mr. Culbreath. What is the difference, sir ? How many years have 
we lost somewheres along the road ? 

Mr. Rice. According to my calculation it only goes to 15 years. 

Mr. Culbreath. I am giving it to you just — you can check the rec- 
ords. If I don't give you the number of years correctly you can go 
back and check that. 

Mr. Rice. You wouldn't want to tell me and straighten it out? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am giving it to you the best I can. 

Mr. Rice. You are the only source of information I have. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; and you should rely on it. 

Mr. Rice. All right. You left Decker in 1934. Then what did 
you do? 

Mr. Culbreath. I was in the constable's office. 

Mr. Rice. As a what? 

Mr. Culbreath. As a constable. 

Mr. Rice. You mean you were the chief constable, starting in 1934 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Or was the chief constable in my district. I was 
the only constable in my district. 

Mr. Rice. All right, what was your salary as constable ? 

Mr. Culbreath. $7,500 a year. 

Mr. Rice. In 1934? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right, how long were you in that position? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I took that job in 1932, and I might clarify 
that a little bit, because you are going to ask another question, and I 
might just as well clear it up now. My first year or two as constable, 
I sold meat in the daytime and worked as constable at night. And I 
may say the law allowed $7,500 a year. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. In any event you stopped selling meat 
in 1934 and became a full-time constable then? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long did you stay in that capacity? 

Mr. Culbreath. Eight years ? 

Mr. Rice. From 1932 until 1940? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, when you became constable, where were you 
living in 1932? 



ORGANIZED CRIME) IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 191 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I was living here in Tampa. Of course, I 
don't remember whether I was living on Tampa Boulevard. I be- 
lieve that's where it was. Tampa Boulevard — they've got so many 
boulevards, Tampa Boulevard, Tambay, Tampa Street — I get confused 
sometimes, Tampa Boulevard. 

Mr. Bice. Where did you live on Tampa Boulevard? You lived 
in a house? 

Mr. Cttlbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You owned the house ? 

Mr. Cttlbreath. I have always lived in a house. I was renting that 
house. 

Mr. Rice. You were renting that house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When did you first acquire a house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Oh, I bought a house, a home, and I believe it 
was 1938, 1 think— 1937 or 1938, when I bought it. 

Mr. Rice. That was your first house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No; I built a home, but during the depression I 
had gotten overboard there too much — more than it was worth — so I 
got the mortgagee, as they call them, to take it up. 

Mr. Rice. Did you lose anything in that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; I lost what I had in it. 

Mr. Rice. How much was that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute now. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. What did you lose ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I lost what money I had in it. 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, don't be quite so evasive. Now, you can 
estimate what you had in the home. Any of us can do that. Answer 
the question approximately, what you had in the home. 

Mr. Culbreath. Senator, if I had to answer it to save my life here 
to tell you how much I had there, I couldn't do it. 

Senator Hunt. Well, was it a moderate home? 

Mr. Culbreath. It was a moderate home. 

Mr. Rice. W^as it an expensive house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The home cost about $15,000, 1 think it was. 

Mr. Rice. And you lost the home ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I didn't lose the home, I lost what I put into it. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know how much you had in it ? Had you one- 
third paid out or one-half of it, or was it nearly paid out? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would say I had a third, maybe half of it. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately then? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would say I had a third — maybe a half, I don't 
remember. 

Senator Hunt. Approximately then, you took a loss of around, 
estimated, $7,500 to $8,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. I may have taken that much. It may be a little 
excessive. 

Senator Hunt. But that is a fairly approximate answer then to the 
question ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 



192 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE- 

Mr. Rice. Then, if you had put up around $5,000 in this home, if 
you had one-third, the rest was on a mortgage? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Why didn't you save that home, Sheriff? You bought 
it and you wanted to live in it. 

Mr. Culbreath. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. A few minutes ago you mentioned about a depression i 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. Well, that came along, and I figured I could 
lose it and buy something much cheaper and get by until the depres- 
sion was over, and would be better off. 

Mr. Rice. Were you affected by the depression ? Were you having 
financial fever? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think everyone was affected by it. 1 don t know 
whether you were old enough then to be affected by that or not, but 
it affected most everyone down in Florida. Because our money came 
from the North. We thought it was coming from the North. 

Mr. Rice. I think it affected all of us. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You would like to have saved your home, would you not? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I'm just like you. I am human. 

Mr. Rice. And you were not able to ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I was able to if I wanted to but it wasn't a good 
deal with the depression on. 

Mr. Rice. How could you have saved it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. By paying for it. 

Mr. Rice. What would you have used to pay for it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Money that I had. 

Mr. Rice. How much money did you have then ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know how much money I had then. I had 
money enough to save it. 

Mr. Rice. Just what did you have then ? > • 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't answer your question. I don't believe you 
could tell me how much money you had in your pocket this morning. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, yes ; I can. 

Mr. Culbreath. I'll bet you can't. 

Mr. Rice. Now, listen. You were about to lose $5,000 in your home. 
Now, I want to find out why you were able to withstand that loss when 
you could have saved it, and if things were going down hill, if you 
were losing out, you are certainly going to do everything you can to 
stem that tide. Now, you are not willingly going to lose $5,000 in- 
vested in your house if you have the necesary funds to hold it. Now, 
how much money did you have then ? 

Mr. Culbreath. How much did I have in the beginning? 

Mr. Rice. No ; I know that. You told us $5,000 approximately. 

Mr. Culbreath. I said it could be less and it could be more. 

Mr. Rice. You said you had about one-third ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, we won't quibble about that. Now, what in addi- 
tion to that investment did you have at that time by way of assets? 

Mr. Culbreath. I had some cash money. 

Mr. Rice. You had some cash money ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you have it ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 193 

Mr. Culbreath. I had it in a locked box. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I couldn't answer that, 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, let's see. You can come a little closer than that. 
Where was the lock box? 

Mr. Culbreath. In my home. 

Mr. Rice. What sort of lock box was it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. A sealed box. 

Mr. Rice. A movable box? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. This was in your rented home ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you have in the box? 

Mr. Culbreath. In the other home, too. 

Mr. Rice. When did you first start keeping that box ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, when I started making money back m the 
meat business. 

Mr. Rice. In the meat business ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You were putting money in there. What was the most 
you ever had in the box ? 

Mr Culbreath. You are fixing to get me robbing somebody i 

Mr. Rice. Listen, let's don't be facetious. This is a serious matter. 
I want to know how much you had in the box at the time you lost that 

house. 

Mr. Culbreath. I had several thousand dollars. 

Mr. Rice. Well, would you say two ? 

Mr. Culbreath. More. 

Mr. Rice. Three? 

Mr. Culbreath. More. 

Mr. Rice. Four? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, more than that. I don't know how much 1 

Mr. Rice. Well, you know it was more than that. How much was 

it? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know, Mr. Rice. That was back in 1932, 

1933, and 1934, along there. . 

Mr. Rice. When you were having this trouble with the house, the 
big problem in your life, how much money did you have when you made 
this decision to let the house go ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I won't be able to answer that, to tell you how 
much, because I couldn't tell you how much, because I couldn't tell you 
how much I have in my pocket today, and I don't believe 90 percent 
of the people in this country can tell. 

Mr. Rice. What is the closest you can come to how much you had« 

Mr. Culbreath. That question I can't answer. 

Mr. Rice. Was it less than $10,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. It could be. It could be more. 

Mr. Rice. Was it less than $9,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. It could be, and it could be more. 

Mr. Rice. How much less could it have been ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You were about to lose $5,000. Now, you know how 
much you had to save that with ? 



194 ORGANIZED CRIME) IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; that is what we have been talking about. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. At the time you lost the house, that was 1932 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know the year that I lost it. 

Mr. Pierce. Mr. Chairman, I don't want to object. I don't like to 
use the term "object" because this is not a trial. Although it is in a 
courtroom, it is not a trial, but I do appeal to the fairness of the chair- 
man as to the use of the word "lost." I believe the testimony of the 
witness is that he didn't lose it. He voluntarily gave it up because 
the valuation went down so. 

Senator Hunt. Well, now, Mr. Pierce 

Mr. Pierce (interrupting). That it wasn't worth keeping on pay- 
ing for it. And the word "lost" gives a different meaning. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Pierce, well, now, let me suggest to you that 
you are not on the witness stand. You are here due to the courtesy of 
the committee. 

Mr. Pierce. I appreciate that. 

Senator Hunt. The extent of your participation is to advise your 
client and not to inform the committee, and so, if you will confine 
your activities in the hearing to advising your client, then we will make 
better progress. 

Mr. Rice. Now, sir, I think I would like to ask the chairman to 
direct the witness to give an exact answer as to how much money he' 
had in the tin box at the time that he was unable to hold onto the house 
that he had built. 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, do you care to answer that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Senator, I have answered it to the best of my 
ability. That is all that any man can do. 

Senator Hunt. Well, will counsel repeat the question ? 

Mr. Rice. How much money did you have in the lock box at the 
time you lost the house? 

Mr. Pierce. I object to the question, may it please the chairman, 
because of the use of the word "lost." 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, will you give the committee whatever state- 
ment you wish to make now with reference to the question ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know how much was in the box. It could 
have been less than the figures that the gentleman has mentioned or 
it could be more, and I don't know, and there is no way for me to 
answer it any better than that. If I knew I would be glad to answer 
it for him, but this happened many years ago. He is talking about 
something that is almost 40 years old, and I am sure that you, the 
chairman of the committee, is fair and knows that the average person 
can't remember things that long ago. 

Senator Hunt. I think your answer is a fair answer. 

Mr. Rice. Let me put it this way. What is the widest possible differ- 
ential between what you had in there and the minimum and maximum ? 
What would have been the lowest possible or the largest amount pos- 
sible in the box? 

Mr. Culbreath. I may have had — I am going to have to make a 
rough answer and estimate. I might have had thirty thousand. 

Mr. Rice. And what is the minimum you might have had? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I might have had at least nine or ten thou- 
sand. Maybe more. 

Mr. Rice. So it was somewhere between nine and ten and thirty 
thousand dollars? 



ORGANIZED GRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 195 

Mr. Culbreath. You are getting right back I think, to the same 
kind of question. I want to be fair to you and give you a good an- 
swer if I can, but you are just trying to pin me down too close. 

Mr. Rice. That is exactly right. We would like to know exactly 

what was there. , 

Mr Culbreath. And I would like to be able to answer your ques- 
tions just the way you want, so that you would be satisfied. 

Mr. Rice. Now, at the time you had the tin box, what other hold- 
ings did you have, Sheriff ? . T 

Mr Culbreath. I haven't referred to that as a tan box. 1 think 1 
have referred to it as a steel box or iron box, but you keep referring to 
it as a tin box. I don't know whether that is cheating me or not. 

Mr. Rice. Well, did you have a bank account at that time i 

Mr. Culbreath. I might have had one ; yes, sir 

Mr Rice. Have you always maintained a bank account « 

Mr. Culbreath. Sometimes I carry a little money m the bank. 
Sometimes I carry more. 

Mr Rich. Well, did you have a bank account at that time? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I imagine I did, but I wouldn t swear that 

Mr. Rice. Well, we are not interested in imagination, Sheriff. We 
are interested in what happened. What was it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am not going to answer the question unless 1 
can give you facts. . 

Mr. Rice. Did you have a bank account at that time * 

Mr. Culbreath. Without checking I couldn't answer that. I am 
quite sure that I did but I am not positive. 

Mr. Rice. If you did, where did you have it ? 

Mr Culbreath. It would have been in the Citizens Bank or it may 
have been the bank in Ybor City. I have forgot. They changed the 
name of it. . 

Mr. Rice. If you did have a bank account it was either m the Cit- 
izens Bank or the bank in Ybor City ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The bank out there, they changed the name of it. 
I think I had an account there, but I don't remember where. I may 
be confused. 

Mr. Rice. Is that bank still in existence ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, the one I am talking about is not. 

Mr. Rice. Which one is that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The Citizens Bank is not, and I think the one in 
Ybor City changed the name. 

Mr. Rice. But it is the same bank? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think so. . 

Mr. Rice. Was that bank closed during the bank holiday during 
the degression ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think all banks closed during the holiday. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. When President Roosevelt closed them all. 
Mr. Rice. Did it liquidate and go out of business or did it continue ? 
Mr. Culbreath. No ; it went out of business. 
Mr. Rice. It went out of business ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. So that bank, if you had an account there, was no longer 
in existence? 



196 ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the Citizens Bank, in what they call the 
Citizens Building. 

Mr. Rice. I am talking about the Ybor City Bank. 

Mr. Culbreath. The Ybor City Bank, it was probably taken over 
by the other bank, or it just changed the name. That is what I think 
about that. I am not sure. 

Mr. Rice. It is a proposition of somewhere between nine and thirty 
thousand dollars in the locked box. Now, how much was in the bank 
account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Approximately ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't answer. The record is the best source of 
information. 

Mr. Rice. What is your best guess ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I wouldn't trust it. 

Mr. R ICE . Do you nave any reC ord— your records for those days? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What became of them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, being a fellow of my type 

Mr. Rice (interrupting). Of what? 

Mr. Culbreath. Being a man of my type, the way I live, maybe 
you have noticed from here that I don't have very many records or 
very good records. Most people don't. The only people are the 
highly trained in school that keep those records. We are be°innin<r 
to get more educated now. But people that really have a <*ood educa- 
tion te 

Mr Rice (interrupting) . Narrowing it down. You don't have any 
record of that time ? J 

Mr. Culbreath. That is what I said. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. Now, what would be your best guess as to 
now much you had m your bank account, if you had any? You had 
more money m the bank than you had in the lockbox ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Oh, no. 

Mr. Rice. But why did you keep it in the lockbox? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't know of any law in this country. 

oH 8 ICE ' WaS n0t a ( l uestion of law - Xt is a question of your 

Mr. Culbreath. That's right. 
Mr. Rice. Why did you do it ? 
Mr. Culbreath. It was my policy. 

abot r t? RlCE " U WaS Somethin £ y° u had a Privilege and prerogative 
Mr. Culbreath. It was my policy. 
Mr. Rice. What is your thinking on that ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't remember just what I was thinking. 

• , , S^Y W ? U i y ? 11 4°^ know w ^y you kept it in a lockbox 
instead of a bank, is that it? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I didn't say that. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what is your answer ? 

Mr. Culbreath. To what ? 

Mr. Rice. As to why you kept your money in a lockbox in your 
house instead of m the bank, which is customary? 
. Mr -Culbreath I said that was my policy. You mentioned poli- 
cies of people and I said that was my policy. 



ORGANIZED CRIME, IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 197 

Mr. Rice. It was your policy to keep money at home instead of in 

the bank ? . 

Mr Culbreath. Yes, sir. I keep money at home and I keep money 
in my office and I keep money in a lot of places. If you had money in 
the bank back there when they had all those bank runs, you wouldn t 
have had any. You would have been wiped out. 

Mr. Rice. How about a safety deposit box ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Then? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did anybody lose money m a safety deposit box in the 

bank 2 

Mr! Culbreath. I don't know, sir. I am not qualified to answer the 

Mr. Rice. Well, you told me a lot of people lost money in the bank? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. No one lost money in the safety deposit box m the bank, 

did thev 1 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know the law on a safety deposit box. 

Mr. Rice. There isn't any law on it. You have a place of safe- 
keeping. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I have answered the question. 

Mr. Rice. In other words, in your estimation your money was safer 
in a lockbox in your house— a rented house— than it was in a safety 
deposit box in the bank ? . . 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I am a firm believer m a bird m the hand 
is worth two in the bush. 

Mr. Rice. I see. I think that is a pretty good answer. Aow, then, 
what other assets did you have at that time ? Did you own any other 
property ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is back around 1932 to 19344 

1\Tt* Rtce Y^es. 

Mr! Culbreath. Well, back in there— I don't know whether I had 
any property or not. The record is the best source of that informa- 
tion, and I have turned over to you all the deeds that I had on the 
property that I had any interest in. 

Mr. Rice. Right now, we are interested in hearing from you on that. 

Mr. Culbreath. I am fixing to tell you of some other source of in- 
come that you haven't touched on, and that you probably will want 
to know about. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. During that time I was interested m a commercial 
fishing business and I owned some— well, what they call a commercial 
crew, consisting of two power boats. And maybe some four to six or 
seven net boats, along with the nets, and everything that goes with 
that, to make up that crew. And for many years there 

Mr. Rice. Try to fix the period. 

Mr. Culbreath. I made quite a lot of money from that enterprise. 

Mr. Rice. What was the name of that enterprise ? 

Mr. Culbreath. There was no name. That was just where I 
financed a bunch of fishermen. The gear belonged to me and the men 
fished for me. and the owner of the gear cuts one-third, and two-thirds 
would be split among them, among the number of men that were 
participating in the venture. 



198 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, 

Mr. Rice. And you say you owned the gear ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You say you owned the gear ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What was the gear worth in 1932 ? 

Mr. Culbkeath. That gear was probably worth $10,000 or more than 
that. Probably I had up to eight, twelve or fifteen thousand dollars 
in it. 

Mr. Rice. In 1932? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Yes, sir; even back in 1930, because when you buy 
nets from these national net companies, you do not buy them on 
credit. You pay cash for them. 

Mr, Rice. Who were some of the fishermen who operated these 
vessels ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. The boys that operated mine, and at first I had a 
brother that was in there for a while, and from him it went into the 
control of a 

Mr. Rice. What was his name ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Ernest. And then from him it went into the hands 
of Joe Jones, and I think, if you will check, probably you already have, 
but if you will, you will find from checking on the waterfront that Joe 
Jones had the reputation of being the best commercial fisherman in 
this section. 

Mr. Rice. What became of Joe Jones ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. He is dead. I used two of his brothers, Bill and 
Alec, and both of them died. They all died from tuberculosis, but 
for fishermen there was none better. 

Mr. Rice. Who kept the records of that venture ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. There was no records kept. At the end of the 
week we would settle up. I would take one-third. Of course, we 
would pay expenses and the owner would take one-third of what is 
left, and the crew kept two-thirds. 

Mr. Rice. You. kept no records at all ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When it came time to pay income tax, how did you know 
how much you made ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. At that time I was in the constable's office and 
I was informed that I did not have to file income tax reports, that 
is, public officials did not ; therefore, for the period of 8 years there, 
there was no income tax filed by me. 

Mr. Rice. So that from 1932 to 1940 you filed no Federal tax return, 
did you ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. I don't think so, because public officials, as I 
understand it, did not, I was so informed. 

Mr. Rice. Was this fishing business a public official job? 

Mr. Cttlbreath. No; it was not a public official job. It was on the 
side, and possibly, I learned later on that maybe under the law I 
should have filed an income tax return on that. 

Mr. Rice. Would it not be a fair interpretation to say that your 
concept was that being a public official entitles you to operate a 
private business which would produce a substantial income, and the 
fact that you were a public official that you should not file an income 
tax return ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME) IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 199 

Mr. Culbreath. If you would break that question clown into shorter 
questions, I will be glad to answer it for you. 

Mr. Rice. I think you understand. 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I do not. 

Mr. Rice. You concede that the fishing business was a private 
enterprise? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. It was not in any way connected with the official duties ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; it had no connection with my official 
duties. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you not file tax returns on that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I understood and was informed that, being a 
public official, I was not required to by the law. So I did not. but 
since then I have learned that maybe I erred ; and, if I did, I could 
not do anything about it but do what I have to do. 

Mr. Rice. So you think that you may have been wrong ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. Understand that was when I first got into 
politics. I don't know whether you have ever been in politics or 
not, but there is a lot of things you learn there. It is quite an 
education. 

Mr. Rice. When did you become enlightened? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, after I was elected sheriff. I think — I don't 
know whether it was the Supreme Court or who ; maybe it was Presi- 
dent Roosevelt — someone ruled that public officials had to file income- 
tax reports, and from that day on I started to file income-tax reports. 

Senator Hunt. It was an act of Congress. It was along about 
1935 or 1936. 

Mr. Pierce. And it was the policy of public officials around Tampa, 
from my own knowledge here, that they did not. Whether they were 
wrong or not, that is beside the issue. He was not alone in that 
regard. 

Senator Huxt. It was a well-known fact, of course, that salaries 
of public officials were not subject to income tax. It had no reference, 
whatsoever, to income other than from official sources. 

Mr. Rice. All right. What became of that business ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, when I got in the sheriff's office and I got a 
little more in the limelight of the public, I thought, for my own 
welfare, politically, that it was best for me to get out of business in 
competition with other people, and I did. 

Mr. Rice. In other words, you felt that, having been elected sheriff, 
which is presumably a full-time job, it would be better to devote your 
full time to it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. sir ; and, as stated awhile ago, these boys that 
were best qualified in this country to handle that kind of enterprise 
passed on. 

Mr. Rice. During the years, what would you calculate was your 
average net income, after your expenses were paid, to yourself? 

Mr. Culbreath. We had better answer that question this way, 
because that was during the time I was constable. I think the county 
and State records will show that I made $7,500 as constable. 

Mr. Rice. From the fish business ? 

Mr. Culbreath. And in the fish business I would make, probably 
between five and ten thousand a year. 

Mr. Rice. An additional five or ten thousand? 



200 ORGANIZED CRIMEI IN' INTERSTATE COMMERICEi 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the best that I can— the best answer I can 
give you. 

Mr. IIice. You found out somewhere around 1940 that it would be 
wise and prudent to file a Federal return ; did you not? 

Mr. Culbreath. When all of the public officials here started to file, 
I joined them, I was one of them. They all started together. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any savings at that time? 

Mr. Culbreath. Oh, yes ; I still had money. 

Mr. Rice. Did it occur to you that it might be also wise to — having 
found that you had — being in a position of having found out that 
you might have filed a return in previous years, that you could remedy 
that situation by filing a return for these years past? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. I have been informed by people who are 
supposed to make a living — or are familiar anyway with filing income 
tax, and they advised me not to do it, and I did not do it. 

Mr. Rice. You did not feel that you owed anything ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I felt that I had made an honest mistake, if it 
was a mistake ; and. as soon as they changed the law or got us straight 
on it, I complied with it. 

Mr. Rice. Having made a mistake, you did not feel compelled to do 
what you could to rectify it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. As well as I remember, I was advised not to, Mr. 
Rice. The old saying is that it was "water over the dam," and I let 
it go. 

Mr. Rice. Were you advised that way by lawyers ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. Whom were you advised by? 

Mr. Culbreath. As well as I can remember, it was someone that 
used to make income-tax reports and familiar with them. 

Mr. Rice. Who was it? 

Mr. Culbreath. It could have been Mr. Cathcart, who worked in 
the justice-of-the-peace office. I think he filed some income-tax 
reports. 

Mr. Rice. He worked in the justice-of-the-peace office? 

Mr. Culbreath. In the justice-of-the-peace court. 

Mr. Rice. And he was an income-tax expert ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. I said he would make out some income- 
tax reports. 

Mr. Rice. But you had some advice from people that knew? 

Mr. Culbreath. It could have been him. 

Mr. Rice. Then, he was not an expert as far as you are concerned ? 

Mr. Culbreath. If you term it that way, I would have to accept it. 

Mr. Rice. I ask you how you term it. You said people that knew. 

Mr. Culbreath. I figured that he knew because that is what he had 
been doing. 

Mr. Rice. When you started filing, when was the first year that you 
filed a Federal return ; do you recall ? 

Mr. Culbreath. It was in 1940. 

Mr. Rice. 1940 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Around 1940, as well as I remember. 

Mr. Rice. At that time, where were you living ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I was living at 5015 Shore Crest. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 201 

Mr. Rice. When did you move into that address? 

Mr. Culbreath. The deed will show. It was about 1938, I think. 

Mr. Rice. About 1938? . 

Mr. Culbreath. Maybe 1939. It could be 1937, somewhere m there, 
but the deed will show that. 

Mr. Rice. And you bought that house jointly with your wile* 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did you pay for that, Mr. Culbreath? 

Mr. Culbreath. Mr. Rice, I am glad you asked that question. I 
paid $2,100. I say I am glad become of some of the — I think that 
there were some photographers that were taken out by people who 
are furnishing you information ; they took them out there to take 
photographs of my home, and it probably will appear in Life in a 
week or two, some large mansion or something — $2,100. 

Mr. Rice. Now 

Mr. Culbreath. Plus lots on the side, which I paid $400 for one and 
either $750 or $800 for one at later dates. The lot I paid $400 for, 
the man I bought it from paid over $10,000 cash for it. He was a 
former president of the Tampa Gas Co. and he was named Grable or 
Graybill, or something. I think he is deceased now. 

Mr. Rice. He paid $10,000 for it and sold it to you for $2,100? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. You misunderstood me. The lot that 
the gentleman paid $10,000 for was sold to me for $400. It is an ad- 
joining place. 

Mr. Rice. From who did you buy the house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. From some insurance company. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know who you bought it from ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Doesn't the deed show that ? 

Mr. Rice. Did you buy it through a real-estate man? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir ; I bought it through a real-estate man. 

Mr. Rice. Who was he ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Now, I say I did— I don't know whether I did 
or not. . 

Mr. Rice. This is the first house you have owned that you lived in ; 
isn't it ? . 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, the first one that I have paid for. 1 owned 
one. but this one I paid for. 

Mr. Pierce. Mr. Rice, at this point, I believe I gave you an original 
computation or compilation of all the real-estate holdings he had. 
•I think, unintentionally or inadvertently, I also included all the copies 
I had. I had a couple of copies, and I don't have a copy left. 

Mr. Rice. We have a copy. 

Mr. Pierce. Could I have a copy ? 

Mr. Rice. Tell us how you came to buy the house, Sheriff ? I'm in- 
terested in that, whom you dealt with. 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't tell you whom I dealt with. I don't remem- 
ber whether it was Hensley Realty Co. or— you see, we were having 
so many of them here at that time, and they were handling different 
properties, until I can't tell you whom I dealt with ; but I think the 
deed will show whom I bought it from, and I think you can contact 
those people and find out who represented him here. 

Mr. Rice. As I understand it, this is the first house that you have 
lived, in that you owned. You certainly remember how you came to 
move into that. That should have been a big event in your life. 



202 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if you want to call it — it was the National 
Bondholder's Corp. That's who I bought it from. 
Mr. Rice. Whom did you deal with? 
Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 
Mr. Rice. How did you find out about it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if you had been down here, you could ride 
around and you could see this house vacant with a sign on it "For 
sale," and see another one vacant, and a sign on it, "For sale," just 
any and everywhere; and I probably contacted them through that 
source. 

Mr. Rice. You were out looking for a house, then ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Well, I could have, or they may have approached 
me I don't know. I know there was a difference over price. They 
wanted $2,500, I think, for it, or $2,300, and I offered them $2,000. 
We finally got together on $2,100. 

Mr. Rice. The deal was consummated and you moved in ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What do you estimate that house is worth today ? 

Mr. Pierce. Do you mean with the lots, Mr. Rice, adjoining? 

Mr. Rice. Were the lots in the deal ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No; they were not. 

Mr. Pierce. Three lots. 

Mr. Rice. You paid extra for the lots? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pierce. There were two extra lots. 

Mr. Rice. There was a total investment of $2,800. 

Mr. Culbreath. Here were 21, 25 — no more than that ; 8 and 4 is 12, 

and 21 

Mr. Rice. Is 33. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is what the three lots and the home — these 
people were — I only bought the house and one lot for $2,100. 
Mr. Rice. You later acquired these other two lots ? 
Mr. Culbreath. That's right, at a later date, after I moved there. 
Mr. Rice. But, in any event, your total investment for the house 
and adjacent lots was $3,300? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I said eight hundred for that. I see it was 
seven-fifty. I made a mistake on that. It was seven-fifty, four 
hundred, and twenty-one. 

Mr. Pierce. There was also a strip 9 feet wide that was on an adjoin- 
ing lot, owned by Mr. Redding. Mr. Redding was a next-door neigh-' 
bor to the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Pierce, we are not interested in your testimony. 
Mr. Pierce. I thought you were interested in the facts. 
Mr. Rice. Yes ; but you were not there. He was there. We want 
to hear it from his mouth. 

Mr. Pierce. This comes from the statement I gave you. 

Senator Hunt. Listen, Mr. Rice 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Pierce, you mean. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Pierce. I beg your pardon. The committee 
chairman apologizes most humbly to both gentlemen. 
Mr. Pierce. I am honored. 

Senator Hunt. Please confine your advices and your contribution 
to the hearing to advice to your client, please. 
Mr. Pierce. I was advising my client. 



ORGANIZED C'RTME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 203 

Senator Hunt. But you were talking to the committee. Go ahead, 

Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Culbreath. May I ask Mr. Rice— I think Mr. Pierce had a 
blueprint of that property in his file, and I imagine he turned it in. 
If it is available, I would like to see it and explain it to you. 

Mr. Rice. What is that property worth today, Sheriff ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. What is that property worth today, in your estimation? 

Mr. Culbreath. Whatever you could get for it. 

Mr. Rice. No, no. What is it worth, in your estimation? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't want to sell it Mr. Rice. It is my home. 
It is worth more to me than it is to anyone else. 

Mr. Rice. Can you fix an approximate value? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if you don't want to sell something, how 
are you going to fix a value ? 

Mr. Rice. At what figure is it assessed? 

Mr. Culbreath. $9,800, 1 believe. I believe that's right. 

Mr. Rice. What is the percentage, in general, of the assessment 
value to the market value? 

Mr Culbreath. I am not qualified to answer that. The house, the 
property, was assessed at about $5,000— $5,600 or $5,700— and then 
there was a lot said around here about low assessments a year or so 
a^o. They wanted them to be assessed around market value, whatever 
itwas worth, so the tax assessor raised our assessments, and of course 
we have a homestead exemption law in this State, where you can 
exempt $5,000, so they pushed it up to $9,800, I guess to get a little 
more taxes off of it. 

Mr. Rice. When vou bought that house, how did you pay tor it* 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know whether I paid in check or cash. 

Mr. Rice. You did pay, by either one ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir I paid for it. I can testify to that for 

sure. , 

Mr. Rice. Tf you paid by check, on what bank would that have 

been ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That would have been through the Citizen's Bank, 
I think it was. Well, I don't know. I don't know whether the Citi- 
zen's — either the Citizen's or the First. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have two accounts at that time ?_ 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I am not sure of that, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have more than two ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; I have had— no ; I have had two, along. 

Mr. Rice. This was about 1938 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. A lot of times, in doing business with the packers, 
I made the deposits for the packers, and I would sometimes have to 
carry an account of my own, you see. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. Do you recall where the settlement took 
place, who handled the settlement, who handled the title search ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I don't know what lawyer handled that 
for me. I believe Mr. Allen did, LeRoy Allen. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Allen? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And did he handle the transfer of the money to the 
seller ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I am sure that he was there. 



204 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. He was there? 

Mr. Cdubkeath. Yes, sir. He handled it or — because I wouldn't 

have paid the people 

Mr. Rice. But you paid the money directly to the people from whom 
you bought it. Is that it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I wouldn't say that. I may have paid it 
to Mr. Allen and he paid it. 

Mr. Rice. That was more probably the way it was done — through 
Mr. Allen? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. That is the reason I am 
answering that way. 
Mr. Rice. Is he living ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. He is a practicing attorney here. He is 
attorney for Atlantic Coast Line Railroad — division counsel. 
Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 
Coming down to 1940, you had Shorecrest? 

Mr. Culbreath. I had some property— no ; I don't know whether 
I had any property before that or not. You have a record there 
to show. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Don't you remember ? 
Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Rice. When you went into the sheriff's office, do you remember 
what property you had ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. Well, I think I had that before 1 went into 
the sheriff's office, this one we are talking about. 
Mr. Rice. Did you have anything else ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I may have had a lot or two. I don't know. I 
wouldn't answer that. Take it either way you want it — that I did 
or didn't, whichever way you want it. 
Mr. Rice. I want it the way it was. 
Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 
Mr. Rice. You don't know when it was ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know without going back and searchino- 
the record to find out. I wouldn't be able to answer it, but if you 
want to say that I did, all right, I will say I did. 

Mr. Rice. What is your best recollection as to what property, out- 
side of Shorecrest, you had ? 

Mr. Culbreath. As I say, I had the lot here that I bought on May 
18, 1937. J 

Mr. Rice. Where is that? 
Mr. Culbreath. That is in Culbreath Beach. 
Mr. Rice. How much did you pay for that? 

Mr. Culbreath. I find that I had another lot, another piece of 
property, in Woodward Terrace, on December 1, 1926. 
Mr. Rice. 1926 ? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Rice. What type of property was that? 

Mr. Culbreath. This was a lot, and I find that I had another lot, 
dated December 21, 1933. 

Mr. Rice. What was the value you paid for that? 
Mr. Culbreath. Which, which one? 
Mr. Rice. The 1936 lot and the 1933 lot. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, the 1933 lot was a cemetery lot. That cost 
$50. J 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 205 

Mr. Eice. $50? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How about 1926 \ 

Mr. Culbreath. The 1926 lot cost $375. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. Did you hold onto those properties ? Do 
you still have them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have them today. I have that cemetery lot for 
a future date. 

Mr. Kice. So that when you went into the sheriff's office, we've got 
Shorecrest, the 1926 lot, the 1933 lot. Anything else? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, that lot in Culbreath Beach. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you pay for that? 

Mr. Culbreath. $75. 

Mr.' -Rice. So you've got $75, $50, and $300 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. $375. 

Mr. Rice. $375, and Shorecrest, at, ultimately, $3,300. All right, 
sir — anything else? 

Mr. Culbreath. Up to when? 

Mr. Rice. Until you went in the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Culbreath. When I went in the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. No. I think that is — I think maybe that's all I 
owned when I went in the sheriff's office. 

Mr. Rice. Think hard. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if it is not listed here I don't own it. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

Now, when you went in the sheriff's office, did you still have your 
lockbox ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How much was in your lockbox? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, do you want, again, to set a minimum and maximum 
figure ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't want to, because it would be incorrect, that 
is, very — it just wouldn't be good, that is, close. 

Mr. Rice. Let's see how close you can come. This was only 9 years 
ago. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; but I didn't go and check every year or every 
day what I have or don't have. 

Mr. Rice. Let's see how close you can come. 

Mr. Culbreath. You go ahead. 

Mr. Rice. No. Give me a minimum and maximum figure. You are 
the one that is testifying. 

Mr. Culbreath. I know I am. I am trying to answer all your ques- 
tions that you ask me, but you have asked me the $61 question. 

Mr. Rice. Yes ; I think it is. Was there $61 in there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much more ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What was the most it could have been ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, maybe — I don't know. Maybe fifty or sixty, 
maybe twenty-five thousand, forty thousand. 

Mr. Rice. Maybe as much as fifty or sixty thousand ? 

68958— 51— pt. la-^14 



206 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know whether there was that much or not, 
without — I don't know whether I could check it any more accurately. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know what ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I had $30,000 or better, I am sure. 

Mr. Kice. This is 1940, when you went in the sheriff's office ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kice. You think you had $30,000 in there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. When I went in the sheriff's office, when I was 
bonded, the bonding company came back and asked for some kind of 
statement of what I was worth, but I didn't want to give that, be- 
cause another bonding company wanted to write my bond and they 
wouldn't require that, and I didn't think it was any of his bonding 
company's business. 

Mr. Eice. Why didn't you want to give them that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Just because I didn't think it was any of their 
business to know what I had or didn't have. If they wanted to bond 
me, all right ; if they didn't want to bond me, that was all right. I had 
another one that wanted to bond me. Finally, they talked to me once 
or twice and talked to my attorney, and my attorney said, "Well, what 
have you got? Give them part of it." So I did. I didn't know I had 
this. I had forgotten all about it until I found it. This is a copy of 
it. It is where I listed that I had $30,000 there. 

Mr. Pierce. State what it is — an application for sheriff's bond. 

Mr. Culbreath. Application for sheriff's bond, was what it was for. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, you say here in answer to a question, "Give 
approximate value of your personal property, stating whether house- 
hold goods, cash on hand or in bank, or anything of value," and you 
say, "$30,000 household goods, cash, and bonds." So there wasn't 
$30,000, was there? 

Mr. Culbreath. It would have been more, but, as I said, I didn't 
list everything there. I only gave them part of it. 

Mr. Rice. You want to say, then, that this is not an accurate 
representation of your- 



Mr. Culbreath. That is part of it. That is 

Mr. Rice. That is just part of it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; that is part of it, I had more. 

Mr. Rice. Why didn't you give an accurate representation ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I didn't know of any reason to give them any 
more. That was sufficient. I understood that that was all they 
needed. 

Mr. Rice. What would be a good reason for not giving an accurate 
picture? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, we all have secrets. 

Mr. Rice. Yes ? 

Mr. Culbrfath. And if you don't want to divulge some informa- 
tion you have, you may have a reason and I may have a reason and 
the other man may have a reason, and that is our personal business. 

Mr. Rice. So that you say you had a secret or secrets ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No; I didn't say that I had one, but that I may 
have one now, and I am sure you have one. 

Mr. Rice. So you have secrets now ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Sure. Don't you have any ? 

Mr. Rice. What was your secret at the time you filed that applica- 
tion ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 207 

Ml'. CULBREATH. I don't kllOW, SIT. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know what the secret was ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I don't know even whether I had one. It is 
just my policy in my business transactions. 

Mr. Kice. All right, sir 

Mr. Pierce. Let the record show that the application, copy of the 
application, for sheriff's bond, just turned over, now being considered 
by the committee and the investigators, was voluntarily produced by 
the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Mr. Pierce. And is not included within the subpena. 

Mr. Rice. Thank you. In that $30,000 figure you have in the 
application there it says, "Household goods, cash, and bonds." 

How much cash was there there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know, sir. I don't know how I broke 
that down. 

Mr. Rice. How much household goods ? 

Mr. Cuebreath. It was just a figure that we arrived at. We just 
threw it all in. 

Mr. Rice. What bonds were you talking about? 

Mr. Culbreath. Government bonds. 

Mr. Rice. Government bonds ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How many Government bonds did you have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you keep them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I kept them in the box. 

Mr. Rice. Kept those in the lock box too ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When did you start buying those ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Oh, it was 19 — oh, those probably were some bonds 
that the Government issued. Some of them were probably some bonds 
the Government issued for service in the Armed Forces during the 
First World War. 

Mr. Rice. The first what? 

Mr. Culbreath. The First World War. 

Mr. Rice. Liberty bonds ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Victory bonds. 

Mr. Rice. And you had had those down through the years ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What would you estimate was the value of the bonds that 
you had ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, those bonds — I don't know whether it was 
around 600 or 16. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Do you still have those ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I cashed them. 

Mr. Rice. You cashed them in ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When was that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. When they matured. 

Mr. Rice. When did they mature? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, weren't they 10-year bonds? 

Mr. Rice. I don't know. 



208 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Senator Hunt. Could some of these bonds have been your adjusted 
service bonds ? 

Mr. Culbreatii. That's right. There could have been some ; yes, sir. 
That is what I think I was trying to say there, and I was misled. 

Mr. Kice. We've got the box, the household goods and the bonds 
totaling about $30,000. What else did you have when you went in the 
sheriff's office? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I had an automobile. 

Mr. Rice. Had an automobile ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you still have the automobile ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, not the same one. 

Mr. Rice. You still have one ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir ; I have an automobile. 

Mr. Rice. What automobile do you have now ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have a 1942 Chrysler. 

Mr. Rice. Anything else ? 

Mr. Culbreath. My wife has a Plymouth. 

Mr. Rice. What year ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think it is a 1950. 

Mr. Rice. Anything else ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well- 

Mr. Rice. Any other cars ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What else did you have when you went in the sheriff's 
office? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't know just what you mean, what else 
I had. I had my clothes. 

Mr. Rice. What other property did you hold, either personal or 
real property ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I had some boats. 

Mr. Rice. How many boats ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Two, and two or three skiffs or three or four skiffs. 

Mr. Rice. What were they worth ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, the larger one was the one that Mr. Caton 
testified about yesterday. I think he got his figures confused. 

Mr. Rice. Were you here when Mr. Caton was on ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. I heard it on the radio last night at 11 : 15 or 
11 : 30 — something like that ; and that boat is 35 feet long and not 
40 feet. 

Mr. Rice. Do you still have the boat ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, and my brother built it for me for nothing. 

It didn't cost me anything ; and the motor that he testified before this 
committee about, that he says costs $3,000, was bought from Mr. LeRoy 
Allen, the same gentleman that I mentioned a moment ago as being 
counsel for the Atlantic Coast Line, for $200. 

Mr. Rice. Have you bought any other motor for that vessel ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When did you buy that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Maybe 3 years ago. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you pay for that? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think it was about $1,900, 1 think. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you buy that ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 209 

Mr. Culbreath. I bought that from the Kermath Motor Co. 

Mr. Rice. From Kermath Motor Co. ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. For $1,900? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, now, I think it was $1,900 or $2,000— right 
at that figure. 

Mr. Rice. Right around $2,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Could it have been $2,708 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, now, it is possible that it was that. I don't 
remember. 

Mr. Rice. Did you draw a check in that amount for the motor ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I could have. I don't know. I don't know 
whether I paid for it in cash or paid for it with a check. 

Mr. Rice. So it could be somewhere between nineteen and twenty- 
seven hundred. You don't care to be anymore 

Mr. Culbreath. Xo. Whatever it cost — I just didn't remember — 
whatever it cost, the check shows or the bill shows, and that's it. 

Mr. Rice. Do you still have that \ 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What else did you have at that time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I had what was referred to yesterday as a 
little open boat. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. It is 22 feet long. 

Mr. Rice. Do you still have that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. It is a boat that did a lot of work for me. 
It is about 27 — no, about 18 years old. 

Mr. Rice. What else did you have ( 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't think of anything else other than that, and 
the remnants of that gear that I told you about a few minutes ago — • 
fishing nets and skiffs, we call them, or fish boats, to go with it. 

Mr. Rice. What became of those ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I still have part of the nets and most of the leads 
and corks and lines. The skiffs, I sold them or they disappeared, or 
something happened while I was away in the Army in this last war. 

Mr. Rice. They disappeared? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, someone may have 

Mr. Rice. You didn't sell them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I sold some of them ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did you get for them I 

Mr. Culbreath. These skiffs, I would get around about fifty to a 
hundred dollars apiece for them. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, let's sum up a little bit here for 1910, when 
you went in the sheriff's office, and see if we are right. 

Mr. Pierce. 1911. 

Mr. Rice. 1940 or 1911. 

Mr. Culbreath. I entered in 1911. 

Mr. Rice. Let's make it the time of this application. 

You had a house, which you still have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you had a number of — two or three small lots, 
which you still have ? 



210 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. CuLBKEATir. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you had about $30,000 in personal property, con- 
sist ing of cash, household goods, and bonds. 

Mr. Culbreatii. And some additional. 

Mr. Rice. Which you still have? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What do you have in your box now, in your lockbox? 

Mr. Culbreatii. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know now ? 

Mr. Culbreatii. No, sir. I don't know how much I have. 

Mr. Rice. How much do you think you have ( 

Mr. Culbreath. I may have, oh, maybe $1,500, maybe $2,000. 

Mr. Rice. About $2,000 in your lockbox now ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And at that time you had something less than $30,000. 
Is that a fair picture, outside of your car, which you still have, or one 
you traded in and kept going- through the years, and the bonds you 
still have — is that a fair picture of your assets at that time? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I have given you the best that I can. If 
that is considered a fair picture, that's it ; yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

( Whereupon, beginning at 11 :10 a.m., there was a 10-minute recess.) 

(Hearing called to order after recess.) 

Mr. Rice. While we are waiting for some equipment, sheriff, I will 
talk to you a little bit. This man who advised you on your tax returns, 
Cathcart, what was his first name? 

Mr. CuLBREAiH. Leslie. 

Mr. Rice. Leslie? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I told you I thought he was the one that 
did it. I am not sure. 

Mr. Rice. What job did he have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. He was a clerk to the justice of the peace. 

Mr. Rice. And what does he do now ? 

Mr. Culbreath. He works for me now. 

Mr. Rice. He works for you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. As a radio dispatcher. 

Mr. Rice. A radio dispatcher ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where is the equipment for the radio dispatching \ 

Mr. Culbreath. In the sheriff's office. 

Mr. Rice. In the sheriff's office. He works right in there? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Does he have occasion to go to the jail ? 

Mr. Culbreath. He can. 

Mr. Rice. Does he ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am sure he does. I wouldn't say too often, but 
he does go there. 

Mr. Rice. Who is Rookie Culbreath ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the one I said was Ernest. He is my 
brother. 

Mr. Rice. He is your brother. What does he do % 

Mr. Culbreath. He is my head man down there. Chief deputy. 

Mr. Rice. Chief deputy? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 211 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; criminal deputy. 

Mr. Rice. Chief criminal deputy ! 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And he is also a full-time employee? 

Mr. Culbreath. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Does he do anything else? 

Mr. Culbreath. Nothing else that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. No other job? 

Mr. Culbreath. None that I know about, 

Mr. Rice. Well, he is there every day, isn't he? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. He doesn't have any that you know of? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know of anything that he has. That is 
his only job. 

Mr. Rice. How about Briggs & Co. ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I was going to get to that myself. I noticed 
the story in one of our local papers about someone referring to 
Briggs & Co. yesterday. I think there are about five or six newspaper 
reporters in this office at this meeting, along with a lot of other folks 
that know what Briggs & Co. is. It is unfortunate— pardon me, for 
mentioning this, but he has 10 percent vision in one eye. That is all. 
So, the world is pretty dark for him. And he called himself and 
Leslie, Briggs & Co. Leslie sees for him. And he is a boy that has 
a lot of wit. And the only way he gets any pleasure, if he gets any 
pleasure, is calling themselves Briggs & Co. And I can look around 
here and see any number of people who know that from A to Z. 

There is no such thing as gambling like someone testified to yester- 
day. They will joke with you anyway you want to. And they call it 
Briggs & Co., and I think you could talk to— if you just talk to some 
of the local newspapers who cover the sheriff's office, they could give 
you the whole picture. Mr. Carlton yesterday— I believe he was the 
one that mentioned Briggs & Co.— he came to work for me sometime 
ago. I don't remember when. 

Mr. Rice. Now, we know about Mr. Carlton. What would you have 
to say about this match-box cover reading "Briggs & Co.— Rookie 
Culbreath & Leslie Cathcart. We do small things big. Everything m 
sports." 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, sir; I think someone that put out matches 
did this to play a trick on them or did it for them. I don't even know 
where they came from. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. But at Christmas time they have a Christmas tree 
down there. They had one Friday night. They called it Briggs & Co. 
Briggs & Co. gave the party. I helped finance it. And they invite the 
deputies and their children down there for just a Christmas party. 
This probably was— I don't know when it came out or anything about 
it, whether it was Christmas time or during the year, but that has 
just been a name for the association between one fellow who can't see 
and another fellow who sees for him. 

Mr. Rice. They don't do anything in sports? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. They have nothing to do with it other 
than if you go down there they would kid with you and make you feel 
at home, but other than that it is nothing. 



212 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. We are going to recapitulate a little bit 
now, Sheriff, on what we have been talking about before the intermis- 
sion, and just to make sure that we are thoroughly accurate we are 
going to make an effort to write this up. We don't seem to have a black- 
board, but we will write it down fairly large so you can all see it. 
All right, now, going back to when you were in the — when you first 
entered the sheriff's office, if I recall your testimony correctly from 
your application for the bonds, you had a house, which you still have? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You had some lots which you still have. Now, you had an 
automobile and you still have an automobile. So that those things 
are relatively unimportant. You haven't disposed of them during 
that time. Now, in the locked box, you have a total figure in the lock 
box— there were household goods and Government bonds of $30,000. 
You still have your household goods? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. I still have furniture. It is either the 
same or additional furniture. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to estimate a figure as to the value of the 
household goods at the time you went into the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Culbreath. I couldn't. 

Mr. Rice. $2,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. Probably more than that. 

Mr. Rice. $3,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't know. It may have been three, it may 
have been four. Mr. Rice, I don't know the price or valuation of them. 
I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. All right, call it $3,000. This would reduce you from 
$30,000 down to $27,000. Is that right? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, you called it $30,000. You said vou would 
call it $3,000. J 

Mr. Rice. Well, you put it in your application ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if I put it in my application that is approxi- 
mately what I had then. I don't know. I don't see the application 
now. I don't know what is in it. 

Mr. Rice. That's all right. That was as close as you could come? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, whatever I have testified to ± will stand by. 

Mr. Rice. Now, I will ask you to testify on the value of the Govern- 
ment bonds ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember what the testimony was on the 
Government bonds. 

Mr. Rice. In any event that was included in that figure? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You still have the household goods ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. I have some household goods. 

Mr. Rice. We will eliminate that then. As assets that you had 
at that time and still have, we have a figure of somewhere around 
$2f,000. All right, now. Did you have any cash in banks at that 
time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. At that time? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. I presume so. I don't know. I don't know how 
much. 

Mr. Rice. Well, from the looks of your application you had included 
whatever it was in that $30,000. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 213 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't know. I didn't include everything 
I had in that $30,000. 

Mr. Eice. All right, let's see what you had then. What else did 
you have that you didn't include? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't remember what you had? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have bank accounts, then ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I did. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you. have them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it would be in the First National — prob- 
ably the First National. 

Mr. Rice. So whatever the figures are on the First National Bank 
account for 1940 would be accurate, would they? 

Mr. Culbreath. They would be accurate as to what is in the bank. 

Mr. Rice. For the year ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes; what was in the First National Bank. 

Mr. Rice. Any other bank accounts ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember any at that time. I could have 
had one in the other bank, the Exchange Bank, but I don't remember 
it. If I did, it didn't amount to much. 

Mr. Rice. It didn't amount to much ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't think so. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. What would you say? A couple of hundred dollars? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I just don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Well, was it more than $1,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Was it less than $1,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't remember. If I don't remember it 
was more than $1,000 I wouldn't remember if it was less than a 
thousand. 

Mr. Rice. What is the nearest you can come ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I can't answer that question. That's one I 
can't help you on. 

Mr. Rice. Can you come within $3,000 of what you had ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't. I just don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Was it less than $5,000 of the total amount that you had 
in all of your bank accounts that year? 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't remember. 

Mr. Rice. You did maintain accounts then? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I did. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what is your best guess as to the amount of 
cash that you had in the banks in the year 1940 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I wouldn't attempt to guess. I would rather go 
back to the banks and check with them and ask them and they would 
have a concrete figure. 

Mr. Rice. But we have got to have a figure now, sheriff, to work on? 

Mr. Culbreath. It is the best place to get it, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. We want it now? 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't give it to you, I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Is it less than $10,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. What was the most that it could have been ? 



214 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't answer that. 
Mr. Rice. You can't answer the question. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. And I can't answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Rice. I think for the purpose of this, we will probably have to 
use no figure at all, if he doesn't give us the figure, and if he is able to 
develop that there was a figure why, we will accept it. For this pur- 
pose then, we will not count any cash in the banks at that time. Is 
that all right? 

Mr. Culbreath. It's all right if that is what you want to do, Mr. 
Rice. I can't object to it. I can't tell you what to do. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You can't straighten me out on that? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. All right, then. No cash in bank accounts. What else 
did you have? What other assets did you have when you went in the 
sheriff's office? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't recall any other assets. None that 
I can think of other than what we have discussed and talked about. 
Those real estate items that we have talked about. 

Mr. Rice. Well, we have taken care of those. None of those have 
been disposed of? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right, for practical purposes, then, when you entered 
the sheriff's office you had a figure of about $27,000, plus a nebulous 
amount in the bank, is that right ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. That could have been more, Mr. Rice. I may have had 
$27,000. I may have had a little more than that. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. What do you want to make it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't want to select a figure which might not be 
correct, and would not do you any good. 

Mr. Rice. The best thing we have to go on is your signed statement? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. You made it out at that time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. That's all right. I had that much. 

Mr. Rice. Your memory was all right when you were making it 
out? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes; it was fresh then because I was making it. 
And if I make something today it will be fresh, too. 

Mr. Rice. How much is in your lockbox today ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. It may be $1,000, $750 ; or $1,500. 

Mr. Rice. Your memory isn't too good on that, is it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I didn't count it. 

Mr. Rice. This is today. 

Mr. Culbreath. I haven't looked at it in sometime. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. I put my money in my pocket this morning and 
I don't know how much I have in my pocket. 

Mr. Rice. Is that a safe that you have there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Where? 

Mr. Rice. In the house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. The steel box ? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTtATE COMMERCE 215 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, I have a safe there. 

Mr. Eice. Does it have a combination ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you remember that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. You don't remember that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. You have got it written down ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. And I might make it clear. I am not a 
smart boy. I don't wear one of those. I am not smart, and never was. 
I was a boy that came from a poor family way back there when we 
had to struggle for everything we had. I have a friend that has been 
my close friend for a long time and I don't even know his street 
address and I go there two and three times a week. You won't believe 
that, but that is the truth. 

(At this point Mr. Klein was putting up a blackboard, at the request 
of Mr. Rice.) 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Klein, for 1940 then, shows assets of $27,000 plus. 
We understand the plus to mean whatever was in the bank, at either 
the Citizens or the First National Bank. t 

Mr. Culbreath. Plus whatever I had. 

Mr. Rice. "\ Vhatever else did you have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Any other money that I may have had. 

Mr. Rice. What other money did you have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I said that $30,000. I may have had some other 
cash. I don't remember. If you will check back with the court re- 
porter you will find that is the testimony. 

Mr. Rice. You said your income was good when you made this 
application % 

Mr. Culbreath. I also testified I did not list everything. 

Mr. Rice. So you now say that is not accurate ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I said that part of it is accurate, what I said. I 
may have had that much. I may have had more. 

Mr. Rice. How much more may you have had ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I cannot answer that question. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. What is the most that you might have had ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Another hundred dollars ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Five thousand. If you cannot remember I do not think 
that for this purpose we are going to be able to give you any credit. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I am not asking for any credit. 

Mr. Rice. You may wish to answer that later on. 

Mr. Culbreath. Maybe so. I don't know what you are getting at. 
I will be as cooperative as I can. 

Mr. Rice. All right, now. Write down his property acquisitions. 
All right. 

Senator Hunt. Remember all this should be under the assets so that 
you can continue to add the value of the property acquisitions. 

Mr. Rice. Now, taking the property list that you have submitted to 
us last night, for the year 1941 we find acquisitions totaling $3,205. 
Check me and see if I am wrong on that. 

Mr. Pierce. I have a similar computation, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. 
Rice. I made mine in the order I had listed on here. 



216 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Check me. 

Mr. Pierce. If you will give me the item. 

Mr. Rice. The first parcel is November 3, 1941, and a $25 considera- 
tion. 

The second, October 15, 1941. 

Mr. Pierce. Just a minute. I can find some of these. 

Mr. Rice. Consideration $180. 

Mr. Pierce. Take that again, will you, Mr. Rice? 

Mr. Rice. The $25 one on page 2. The second item, $25. The 
last item is $180, page 5, the property from Southland Properties, con- 
sideration is $3,000, totaling $3,025, property acquisitions in 1941. 

Mr. Pierce. That was by him and a cousin, both. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. Do you want to say anything about that ? You 
are listing it as his property ? 

Mr. Culbreath. We do not own but a half interest. 

Mr. Rice. You own a half interest ? 

Mr. Culbreath. A half interest. 

Mr. Rice. All right. How much did you put up on that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Mr. Rice, I am sure we turned over a letter to you 
from my cousin to me giving the dates, the check number, and the 
amount of each and when I paid him. If you will look in your file 
you will find it. 

Mr. Rice. So that he put up $1,500 and you put up $1,500, is that 
right? 

Mr. Culbreath. I owned a half interest and there is a few cents, or 
a little difference in there, but if you will look in there you will find 
it is correct. 

Mr. Rice. In 1942 and 1943 you were in the Army, is that correct? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. In 1944 you have parcel No. 3 on page 1, $750. Parcel No. 
2, on page 3, $75. Parcel No. 3, on page 3, $500. Parcel No. 2, on 
page 4, $3,000. Making a total of $4,325 worth of property in 1944. 
$4,325 worth of property in 1944. 

Now, in 1945, you have the Gandy Bridge property, May 1, 1945, 
$2,500, the last item on page 1. 

Item 3, on page 4, the property from Torrio, October 8, 1945, $16,000, 
making a total for that year of $18,500. 

Now, in 1946, item 3, on page 2, October 21, 1946, $1,250. 

Item 5, on page 2, March 9, 1946, $5,000. 

Now, here is a piece of property, item 4, on page 3, date of Septem- 
ber 4, 1946, from Davis — Milton Davis and Pauline F. Davis, to Hugh 
Culbreath and wife, lots 9 and 10, block 7, Henderson Beach sub- 
division. What was the consideration on that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would say, what was paid for that property I 
think, it was less than a thousand dollars, but if you will have someone 
to call Mr. Meredith at the Toole Realty Co., he will give it to you. 

Mr. Rice. Let us call it $500. 

Now, in 1946, item 3, on page 2, October 21, 1946, $1,250. 
on it? 

Mr. Pierce. The deed shows the stamp of a thousand dollars, and 
we went over it carefully and the sheriff is sure he did not pay that 
much. 

Mr. Rice. If 500 is agreeable. The last item, page 4, dated October 
16, 1946, the Anthony Distributors, David Wescott property, indicated 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 217 

here Wescott $12,000, Culbreath $7,000, consideration $19,000. How 
much did you have in that property, Sheriff ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Just what the record shows. $7,000. 

Mr. Rice. Your participation was $7,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I have here what appears to be a work sheet showing real- 
estate holdings of Hugh L. Culbreath, and, referring to that same piece 
of property, I notice that there was a figure, that there appeared 
to be a figure of $19,000 from which the one had been erased. Would 
you care to explain that? 

Mr. Pierce. Mr. Chairman, I think I may explain that, if I may. 

Senator Hunt. Let the witness explain. You can advise your 
client, if you wish. 

Mr. Culbreatsh. I don't know who made that out, or who erased 
that. I think probably that was the total amount. It looks like the 
totai amount of $19,000, but I did not erase it and I cannot explain it. 

Mr. Rice. You do not want to explain the erasure at all ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I just do not explain the erasure. I have the 
$7,000, I have that. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the assessed valuation on it, Senator. 

Mr. Rice. On this other property for which you gave $500, what do 
you figure from the stamps on that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well ■ 

Mr. Rice. Where you have documentary stamps of $1.75. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I believe it is 10 cents a hundred. Isn't 
that right? 

Mr. Pierce. No; that is Federal. It is $1.50 State. That would 
indicate $1,500, Mr. Chairman. That is when we attempted to trace 
the exact consideration paid. The sheriff is positive that he did not 
pay that much. 

Mr. Rice. How did you happen to put stamps on it for $1,500 if 
you didn't pay that? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am not saying I didn't. 

Mr. Rice. It is possible that you did pay $1,500 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. It is possible that I did, but sometimes in putting 
stamps on an instrument of that kind you will go to the clerk and 
make a mistake or they may make a mistake. ^ It may be called $1,500. 
Whatever you want to say about that, it's O. K. with me. 

Mr. Rice. I want what you say. 

Mr. Culbreath. The deed is the best evidence. 

Mr. Rice. The deed has $1,500. 

Mr. Culbreath. All right, list it at $1,500. 

Mr. Rice. To recap that on 1946, $1,250, item 3 on page 2 ; $5,000, 
item 5 on page 2 ; $1,500, item 4 on page 3 

Mr. Pierce. Wait a minute, Mr. Chairman. You've got that 
$1,500. 

Mr. Rice. He said it was all right with him, didn't he? 

Mr. Pierce. Oh, no. 

Mr. Rice. The stamps show $1,500. 

Mr. Pierce. That is the one that I thought we agreed on $500. 

Mr. Rice. You just changed it. He said it was all right with him 
to say 15. Do you want to disagree? 

Mr. Pierce. I don't want to argue, but he said sometimes the clerk 
puts stamps on when it does not represent the actual value. 



218 OROANIZEID CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Senator Hunt. Let the witness answer. Mr. Culbreath, what value- 
do you wish to put on this property — that is, the money paid by you 
for the property ? We will end this discussion. 

Mr. Culbreath. Senator, I don't remember how much I paid for it r 
but I know I paid $500 on it. 

Senator Hunt. A moment ago you said you were willing to put 
$1,500 on it. 

Mr. Culbreath. I was willing to do that. I am willing to do that 
if it will speed things up. I just want to help. 

Mr. Rice. The last item on page 4, $7,000, and — well, that's it. 
That is $14,750. Now, in 1947, item 4 on page 1, we see a deed elated 
May 22, 1947, from William Redding and wife to Culbreath and wife, 
a gift of a strip of land in lot 17, block 12, 9 feet wide. I take it that 
that is that 9-foot strip adjacent to the house. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is, Senator. When I bought this home the 
old Beach Park Co. used an old surveyor by the name of Mr. Bettis. 
He was the father-in-law of the man who put on this project. 1 had 
him come out and establish my lines, and he established the line. I 
planted a hedge, and then later I built a garage. We lived that way 
for a long time. Then, south of me, another party came in and bought 
some lots and built him a home, and then I wanted to establish my 
corner between his property and my property so I got another sur- 
veyor and he went out there and this surveyor, Mr. Sullivan, he went 
out there and found that I was 9 or 10 feet over on my neighbor's 
property. So I told my neighbor, Mr. Redding, I says, "You either 
have half of this garage or I will tear it down, or I will buy the land 
from you." And he kidded me for a few days around there, and 
finally he said, "Well, I am going to give it to you. It's not going to 
cost you anything." I insisted on paying him, but he^ wouldn't let 
me pay him. That's the kind of neighbor that he is. He gave me this 
strip of ground. 

Mr. Pierce. You submitted a blueprint to them. 

Mr. Culbreath. I submitted a blueprint, and I know it is in your 
file with my papers, showing just what strip it was. 

Mr. Rice. That was the only property in 1947. 

Now, in 1948 you have item 4 on page 2, November 27, 1948, $800, 
and one on February 28, 1948, item 1 on page 3, $200, and item 5 on 
page 3, December 1, 1948, $250, making a total for that year of $1,250. 
All right, item 1, page 4, 1949, November 29, property, $20,000. Total 
for that year 

Mr. Culbreath. Wait a minute. Look at that note on the top of 
that. 

Mr. Rice. All right, what holding do you have in that property ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Fifty percent ; one-half. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you put up ? 

Mr. Culbreath. $2,500. 

Mr. Rice. Who else put up any money ? 

Mr. Culbreath. My brother. 

Mr. Rice. What is his name ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Ernest. 

Mr. Rice. How much did he put up ? 

Mr. Culbreath. $2,500. 

Mr. Rice. Is there a mortgage on that? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 219 

Mr. Culbreath. There is. 

Mr. Rice. How much is against it I 

£ ^STjS^M of $5,000 and a trust-of ten is fifteen. 

W ^(^ B ™^think we have accounted for it, haven't we? I 
put up 5. my brother put up 5, and 10 is due, which makes 20. 
Mr! Rice. You said $2,500, unless I am mistaken 
Mr. Pierce. It is five apiece instead of halt ot bve. 
Mr. Culbreath. Five apiece instead of half We put up $2,500 
each. That's $5,000. My brother put up 5, which is 10, which is nan 

° f Mr. Pierce. I got that from the face of the deed and I did not take 

into consideration the mortgage. 

Mr Rice. All right, $5,000. . .„ , 

Senate? Hunt. Let's straighten that transaction out Sheriff how 

much did you put up on this property that we are just now talking 

fl bout i 

Mr. Culbreath. I put up $2,500. 

Senator Hunt. You put up $2,500? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. That is $5,000, together? 

Mr. Culbreath. That's right. 

Senator Hunt. Each of you didn't put up five thousand? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Senator Hunt. I think the testimony conflicts. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I would like for the record to show it is 
cstviiohtened out. You straighten it out. . 

Mi" Rice If there is only $10,000 against it and $5,000 paid, where is 

th M°r CulIrjLath. There should have been two payments, for these 
2 Years. When we bought it we paid $2,500 apiece. That's five thou- 
sand. Then we made a second payment, $2,500 each, makes another 
5, and 5 and 5 is 10. . 

Mr Rice. So you now have $5,000 of your own m it i < 

Mr. Culbreath. That's right, This last payment has just recently 
been made. It was due, I think, in December. 

Mr. Rice. Now then 

Mr. Pierce. Is that all for 1949 ? 

Mr. Rice. As far as it shows on the list. 

On page 6, where you list your personal property, you have Govern- 
ment war bonds in the name of Hugh Culbreath and wife, with no 
figure mentioned. What is that figure, now ? > 

Mr. Culbreath. I said that could be five or six or seven or maybe 
ten thousand. I could take you and show them to you. 

Mr. Rice. Did you receive a subpena ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did the subpena say? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You didn't look at it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you read it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 



220 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Kice. Did it say you were called upon to produce a list of 
your property holdings ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it did, but I didn't interpret it that way. 
We can get the bonds right quick. 

Mr. Rice. Let's not talk about what we can do. Let's talk about 
what we were supposed to do. 

Mr. Culbreath. I just didn't bring them in because I didn't want 
bonds lying around, like I would my cash. 

Mr. Rice. It isn't a question of bringing them in. All we asked 
was the value of them from you. 

Mr. Culbreath. The value, without checking it, I couldn't give 
you an accurate value — that is, to the dime — but I will be glad 

Mr. Rice. In other words, did you see fit to ignore the Senate sub- 
pena when you were called upon to produce 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I did not. Just like last night I did not 
bring in that last checkbook there. I had forgotten it, and I brought 
it in this morning. 

Mr. Rice. So you just plain forgot this. Is that it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, I didn't exactly forget it. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what is it? 

Mr. Culbreath. If you want them, we will go see them. 

Mr. Rice. We did want them. We asked you for them a week ago. 

Mr. Culbreath. All right, we can go see them, because it's not that 
I am trying to cover up anything. I am trying to help you. 

Mr. Rice. We call on you to produce those. I think that during the 
luncheon recess we would like to have an exact figure oh that. 

Mr. Culbreath. All right. I will go look. 

Mr. Rice. Sheriff, you have given us here a list of bank accounts. 
Let me ask this : Do you have any bank accounts, either in your name 
or in which you have an interest, in any other cities ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Habana? 

Mr. Culbreath. I haven't been to Habana in — but one time in my 
life, and that was back right after the First World War. I went down 
there to play football against the Habana Athletic Club. 

Mr. Rice. How about Key West? 

Mr. Culbreath. I haven't been to Key West since then. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any bank account there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Never. I've never been in a bank there. 

Mr. Rice. How about Chicago? 

Mr. Culbreath. I've only been in Chicago a couple of times in my 
life. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have an account in Chicago in any banks? 

Mr. Culbreath. I've never been in a bank in Chicago. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Positive. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any interest in Anthony Distributors ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not a nickel ; not a nickel. 

Mr. Rice. Any interest other than money ? 

Mr. Culbreath. What do you mean ? 

Mr. Rice. Stockholdings? 

Mr. Culbreath. You mean in any other business, stock in any 
other business? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 221 

Mr. Rice. No; in Anthony Distributors. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't have anything in Anthony Distributors. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any corporate stock in any corporation ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any bonds? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a safety-deposit box in any bank ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where is that? 

Mr. Culbreath. The Exchange National. 

Mr. Rice. Is that the only one ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much is in that safety-deposit box? 

Mr. Culbreath. There's a few hundred dollars there. I would have 
to check to tell you that. I will bring you that information. 

Mr. Rice. Is that in addition to this property listed here? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. A few hundred ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. At the noon recess you will also get that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I will find out about that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any interest in the Tropical Brewing Co., 
or have you had any interest in it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The Tropical Brewing Co., in Tampa? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I don't have a nickel. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any interest in it ( 

Mr. Culbreath. Never. 

Mr. Rice. How about Packard-Tampa Motor Co. ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, sir, I was called the other day by my attor- 
ney. He says, "You have failed to give me a list of all the property you 
own. What about this Packard Motor Co.?" I said, "I wish I had 
some of it, but I don't." I said, "I am going to find out why I don't 
have any stock." I called a party that I knew was in it. I said, "What 
about my stock in this Packard Motor Co.?" They said, "The cred- 
itors would be glad to turn it over to you." 

Mr. Rice. You never have had any interest in it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not a nickel. I don't even know but one or two or 
three stockholders in it. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any interest in the Tampa Times, a news- 
paper ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No more than I have in the Chicago Tribune, or 
the New York Times. 

Mr. Rice. How about the Club 22? Do you have any interest in 
that? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't even know where the Club 22 is. I guess 
that will probably reflect on me as being sheriff — that I should knoAv, 
but I don't. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know where the Club 22 is, and you are 
sheriff of this county? 

Mr. Culbreath. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know where the De Soto Hotel is? 

68958— 51— pt. la 15 



222 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, yes. That was the Chateau — something like 
that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know where the Frolics Club is ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any interest in that? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. I don't even patronize it. I haven't been 
there more than once or twice in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any interest in any property held by Earl 
Lynn, your nephew ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. Why would I have any with him? 

Mr. Rice. I'm asking the questions. 

Mr. Culbreath. He bought that property, I think, his home — I 
don't know whether it was from some governmental agency or not. 

Mr. Rice. Did you give him any money in connection with it? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, not a nickel, 

Mr. Rice. Have you made any gifts to anyone in the last 10 years? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't recall. 

Mr. Rice. Outside of those listed on the tax returns? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't recall. 

Mr. Rice. Any relatives? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Did you help build any property for any relatives? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. I don't think any relatives have any property 
that has been built. 

Mr. Rice. How about Earl Lynn? 

Mr. Culbreath. I haven't given him a nickel. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am positive. 

Mr. Rice. Do you hold anv real property outside of the State of 
Florida ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I don't. However, someone has informa- 
tion that I owned a ranch with someone in Georgia, which I had never 
heard of until yesterday or the day before. 

Mr. Rice. You say someone has information to that effect? 

Mr. Culbreath. Someone said that Coach Wally Butts, up in 
Georgia, and I owned a ranch together. 

Mr. Rice. Is that true ? 

Mr. Culbreath. It's very false. 

Mr. Rice. Do you own any property at all in Georgia ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any holdings in Georgia ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have a bank account there, if that is what you 
are talking about. 

Mr. Rice. Where is the bank account? 

Mr. Culbreath. It is in Waycross, Ga. 

Mr. Rice. How did you come to have a bank account in Waycross, 
Ga.? 

Mr. Culbreath. I was base commander there during the war for a 
while, and I opened an account and deposited money and left it 
there. 

Mr. Rice. Left the money there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Is it still there? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 223 

Mr. Culbreatii. Still there. 

Mr. Rice. How much is that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Between nine and ten thousand. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to call that $9,500? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I think you could help me out. If you 
say that is what it is 

Mr. Rice. No. _ 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, between 9 and 10. It could be less than. 
95, but it's above 9. 

Mr. Rice. It could be more, too ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not more than 10. 

Mr. Rice. Let's put down there, "Bank of Waycross, $9,500. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, where is Punta Gorda? 

Mr. Culbreath. One hundred miles from Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any property in Punta Gorda ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No real estate. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any business there? 

Mr. Culbreath. No business. 

Mr. Rice. Have you been stationed there? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. In what capacity? 

Mr. Culbreath. In the Army — military. 

Mr. Rice. You opened a bank account there ? 

Mr. Cullreath. I did. 

Mr. Rice. Where was that \ 

Mr. Culbreath. The Punta Gorda State Bank. 

Air. Rice. You still have that bank account? 

Mr. Culbreath. I do. 

Mr. Rice. How much is in it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Between eight and nine thousand dollars. 

Mr. Rice. The Bank of Pnnta Gorda. We will call that $8,500. 
Now then, do you have some bank accounts in Tampa ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What are they ? What bank ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Exchange National and the Marine. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Let's take the Exchange National. Is that ai 
checking account? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a savings account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a safety deposit box? 

Mr. Culbreath. I testified a moment ago that I had a safety deposit 
box there. 

Air. Rice. At the Exchange ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much do you have in the checking account in the. 
Exchange National Bank? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have $1,351.94. 

Mr. Rice. All right; $1,351.94 in the Exchange Bank, plus a safety 
deposit box which you are going to check at lunch time. Now. then, 
did yon say you had an account at the First National Bank ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. A checking account ? 



224 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have a savings account? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. A safety deposit box % 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much is in the checking account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. $12,724.02. 

Mr. Rice. First National Bank of Tampa; $12,724.02? 

Mr. Culbreath. There may be a differential of around $100 there, 
one way or the other. 

Mr. Rice. We won't quibble about the hundreds. 

Mr. Culbreath. What I mean is, withdrawals and additions. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, do you have any other bank account in Tampa ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I mentioned the Marine Bank. 

Mr. Rice. The Marine Bank ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Is that a checking account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a savings account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a safety deposit box ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. About how much is in the checking account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. $1,352.66. 

Mr. Rice. $1,352.66 in the Marine Bank. Now, then, sir, do you 
have any account in St. Petersburg? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any property holdings in St. Petersburg? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes; I have real estate — not in St. Petersburg — 
Pinellas County. 

Mr. Rice. What bank is that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. In St. Petersburg, it is the Florida National, 
I think. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. You have a checking account there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. A savings account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. A safety-deposit box ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And what is on deposit in the Florida National ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The nearest I can give it to you would be $10,000, 
or maybe $10,200. 

Mr. Rice. $10,200 in the Florida National in St. Petersburg. How 
about the First Federal Savings & Loan, either here or in St. Peters- 
burg ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I never had an account there. 

Mr. Rice. You never had an account there. In addition to that you 
have your Government bonds which you are going to check on at lunch 
and your safety-deposit box in the Exchange, and your lock box which 
you will check on. 

Senator Hunt. The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 45. 

(Thereupon, the hearing was recessed for lunch until 1 : 45 p. m. 
of the same day. ) 



ORGANIZE© CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 225 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Senator Hunt. A subpena was issued for the appearance in this 
cour of one Geo ^e Bowers. Information was given to the chairman 
of the committee that Mr. Bowers was in a hospital with a stomach 
ulcer in Jacksonville. 

Senator Hunt^u Miami. We now understand that this Mr. Bow- 
ers is not in the hospital in Miami, and if he doesn t appear before the 
conch skin of these hearings, the committee wUl take under considera- 
tmn contempt proceedings against him for act of appearance. 
Does Mr. Bowers happen to be in the courtroom > 
Mr Bice. Let the record indicate that there was no response. 

W^li^l'^^rZ^fA^, that y ou 

^^ani^Ye^r^have $6,500. in bonds and $360 in cash. 

Mr. Rice. Now, where is that cash, Sheriff ? 

Mr. Culbreatii. In the safety deposit box. 

Mr. Rice. Now, is that in the bank ? 

Mr. Culbreatii. Yes. 

Mr Rice. How about in the lockbox ( 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I didn't get to the lockbox. You told me 
to check the bank, and the lockbox-I didn't have time to go to my 
home to check that, but I have a few hundred dollars there, is all. 

Mr. Rice. Now, the bonds aggregate how much? 

Mr. Culbreath. $6,500. 

Mr. Pierce. Is that the maturity ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the maturity. 

Mr. Rice. What is the market value of that? 

Mr. Pierce. Seventy-five percent of that. . 

Mr Rice. Three-quarters of 6,500. Sheriff, how old are they I Are 
those World War II? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; these are bonds bought along in 1945. 

Mr. Rice. And they are Government bonds? 

Mr. Culbreath. They are Government bonds ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. So its 75 percent of the value when you purchased them, 
but you had them 5 years ? 

Mr. Pierce. But the money out of the pocket of the sheriff was the 
original purchase price like the increased value of the home place? 

Mr. Rice. I think you have a point there. 

Mr. Pierce. Thank you. Thank you. 

Mr. Rice. Now, we still have left a lockbox at home— or a safe- 
it's grown to a safe from a locked box, has it not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it has been a safe for a good while. 

Mr. Rice. How long has it been a safe ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. Quite a few years. 

Mr. Rice. How many years ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't know. I don't remember when 1 

got it. 

Mr. Rice. Was is since 1940 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I think it was before that. 

Mr. Rice. It was before that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 



226 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Now, that is at your home ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you have an unnamed amount in that safe ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, I have ; a few hundred dollars. 

Mr. Rice. And you have the combination ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I don't have the combination. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know where it is ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I can get it, 

Mr. Rice. You can get the combination ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any objection to a representative of the 
committee accompanying you to that safe to take a look and see what 
is in it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. None at all. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Would you want to tell us your best guess 
of what is there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; I would say — it is only a guess — about 
$1,200. 

Mr. Rice. About $1,200? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right ; $1,200 in the locked box, or the safe now. 

Now, then, do you have any other cash that was your property in 
the sheriff's office or the jail or any other boxes ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Or repositories ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How much cash do you have outside of banks that are 
not in your safe or safety deposit box that you carry with you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have $200 or $300 on me. 

Mr. Rice. You have that on you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. $300? 

Mr. Culbreath. I believe that will do. 

Mr. Rice. All right. $300 then. Now, is there any other cash 
stored around the house or any other place ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any interests in the hotels, Sheriff? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I don't. I don't have any interest in any 
hotel or anything similar to that. 

Mr. Rice. Any commercial properties? 

Mr. Culbreath. No commercial properties. 

Mr. Rice. How about the Oldsmobile dealer in St. Petersburg ? Do 
you have any interest in that property ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't even know him. 

Mr. Rice. Johnston Scale & Fixture Co. Building? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not that. I know Mr. Johnston, but I don't have 
any interest there. 

Mr. Rice. No interest there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any other attorney besides Mr. Pierce here ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is his name ? 

Mr. Culbreath. L. H. Hill, Jr. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 227 

Mr. Rice. Does L. H. Hill hold any property for you, either per- 
sonal or real property? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not for me ; no, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Not for you? Has he held any for your wife? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. Any relatives? 

Mr. Culbreath. No relatives. None at all. Mr. Hill, I may add, 
that he is sick. He has a heart condition. He is not too active. 

Mr. Rice. Does Mrs. Culbreath hold any property alone or as an 
individual ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Positive. 

Mr. Rice. How about jewelry? 

Mr. Culbreath. Oh, she has a wrist watch and rings. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Culbreath. A wedding ring. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Culbreath. An engagement ring. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Culbreath. And I think one dinner ring. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Now, have we covered your property hold- 
ings? 

Mr. Culbreath. To the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. Rice. For the last 10 years I 

Mr. Culbreath. Further than that, it seems to me. It seems to me 
you started back about 1930, didn't you? 

Mr. Rice. Well, I want to give you a moment to think about it a 
little bit and see if I have accounted for everything here. 

Mr. Culbreath. As far as I can remember, everything is accounted 
for, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Now you want to take the definite position that there is 
no other property that you have, either real or personal? 

Mr. Culbreath. None that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Not that you know of ? Let's make it more definite than 
that. Think hard. 

Mr. Culbreath. I am thinking hard. 

Mr. Rice. You don't have any other property? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. None that I can think of. 

Mr. Rice. Now we will head this "Income" and we will take the 
figures from the tax returns as furnished the committee in response 
to subpena for the year 1941. Oh, incidentally, what was your 
salary in the sheriff's office ? What is the sheriff's salary ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The salary is $7,500. 

Mr. Rice. I see. In 1911 you report in gross income, "Salaries for 
personal services" of $12,000^ How does that happen when the salary 
is $7,500? 

Mr. Culbreath. Mr. Rice, I can't tell you how that happened in 
1941. I don't remember, but that was income I had received and I 
reported it. 

Mr. Rice. This was over your $7,500. You have approximately 
$5,000, 1941, and you don't know where that came from ? 



228 OR/GAN'IZE'D CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I don't know what that was made of. 

Mr. Rice. You have already testified that you were out of the fish- 
ing business and the reason being that you wanted to devote your full 
time to the sheriff's duties. 

Mr. Chlbreath. That is after I went into the sheriff's office. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

M r. Culbreath. Is that 1941 ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, that was reported for the year 1941, is that 
right? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Air. Culbreath. Well, I can't tell you without checking further 
where it came from, but certainly if I hadn't received it I wouldn't 
have reported it. 

Air. Rice. All right. Do you want to stand on that statement ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. It just came from nowhere ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I didn't say it just came from nowhere. 
I don't remember back in 1941. That is 10 years ago. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, sir, after deducting your expenses, you had 
a net income of $9,800, upon which you paid a tax of $1,172, which 
would leave a net of around, in round figures — — 

Mr. Culbreath (interrupting). May I interrupt ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. I had a piece of property that I was farming on 
and probably that is where that income came from. 

Mr. Rice. No; you had trouble with that one, Sheriff; you were 
in the red with a loss of $86. 

Air. Culbreath. It was a loss. 

Mr. Rice. So there wasn't any income ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know where that figure came from. Maybe 
some of those figures came from the operation of a tract of ground that 
was a farm. I think the c. p. a. that made that could explain that to 
you. 

Mr. Rice. You don't show income from the farm. You show a loss. 

Mr. Culbreath. It isn't shown. 

Mr. Rice. Could you be wrong ? 

Mr. Culbreath. On the farm ? 

Mr. Rice. On this? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. You will take this as being accurate ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I will take that, 

Mr. Rice. All right. Your net income was $9,859 less a tax paid of 
$1,172, which leaves what ? That is a take-home then of $7,687 for the 
year 1941. 

All right, for the year 1942 you indicate that your occupation was 

sheriff and United States Army. I take it that you went into the Army 

and resigned your job as sheriff, or what was your arrangement there? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I had no connection with the sheriff's 

office. 

Mr. Rice. So that you were temporarily out of the sheriff's office 
and resigned? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; for the duration of the war, for the time 
I was in the service. 



ORGANIZED CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 229 

Mr. Rice. So, your salary and income for that year consisted en- 
tirely of what yon received from the United States Army and your 
gross income here is $4,567.50. After deducting your expenses, con- 
tributions, and other allowable deductions, you had a total net income 
of $2,772, upon which you paid a tax of $149, which leaves a net take- 
home of $2,772 less $149, $2,623. 

(These figures were being put on the blackboard, after the totals 
were arrived at, by Mr. Klein.) 

Mr. Rice. Now, in 1943, you were again in the United States Army 
and you show a gross income of $4,099.98, deductible expenses $2,599.98, 
and after your other deductions a net income of $2,599. It appears 
that no tax was paid that year. Now then, for that year we will use 
the figure $2,599.98 as a take-home. 

In 1944, apparently, you left the Army, because you drew $135, and 
returned to Hillsborough County, where you received $5,000 by taking 
part of the year of that, your gross income, $5,133. After your deduc- 
tions, your net was $3,177, upon which you paid a tax of $562, so, we 
will deduct the $562 from the $3,177, $2,615. 

In 1945, apparently, full time as sheriff of Hillsborough County, 
the gross income $7,500. That is the only income shown for you from 
any source. All right. After your deductions your net was $5,431 
upon which you paid a tax $1,245, so we will subtract the $1,245 from 
the $5,431, and you had a take-home of $4,186. 

. Now, in the year 1946, the same situation prevailed, $7,500, gross 
income, a net of $4,557, upon which a tax of $935 was paid, so we take 
$935 from the $4,557 and there is a take-home of $3,622 for 1946. 

In 1947, gross income, $7,500 and net income of $4,726, and a tax 
paid of $977. Take the $977 from the $4,726 and we have a take-home 
of $3,749. 

In 1948, gross income, $7,500, plus a miscellaneous income of a 
$1,000, making a total gross of $8,500. What was that $1,000 2 years 
ago ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That was rent on a little house I owned on one ot 
these pieces of property. . 

Mr. Rice. You have your net in round figure of $1,000. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know, unless it was some bonds that was 
cashed. I don't remember what it would be. 

Mr. Rice. When you cash bonds, is that income ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; not all of it. 

Mr. Rice. What other source of income was available to you 2 years 
ago? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it could have been for the sale of some 
oranges, I guess, some stuff off of this little farm that I mentioned. 
I doivt know of anything else it could have been. 

Mr. Rice. Is it not required that when you have a farm that you 
file a farm return? 

Mr. Culbreath. Mine is not large enough for that and I got out 
of the thing. It is just a very small place. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to say that the $1,000 is the result of sale of 
citrus on the farm ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. I will say the $1,000 is correct, I would 
have to go back and check with Mr. Harvey to see what the situation 
is, because he made the return and I don't know. But I gave him the 
figures. 



230 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Did it come from Jimmie Velasco 1 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You know where it did not come from, do you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; it did not come from him either. 

Mr. Rice. But you do know where it did come from ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I cannot say here, but I can establish the fact. 

Mr. Rice. You can establish it. A tax paid of $926. The net was 
$5,357, tax paid $926 ; $926 from $5,357, and we have a take-home of 
$4,431. 

Now, in 1949 you have a gross from Hillsborough County of $7,500, 
and a rent of $90. Incidentally, what was that rent on ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That was on a small house. 

Mr. Rice. Is that included in your property, which is listed ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; it is listed. 

Mr. Rice. And a,n interest item of $1,500, income from interest. 
What was that from % 

Mr. Culbreath. That would be on cashing in of bonds. 

Mr. Rice. That is cashing in of bonds ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; that is cashing in of bonds. 

Mr. Rice. Cashing the bonds out. All right. Do you have any 
idea of what the total market value of those bonds would be ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Which produced $1,500 interest? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I don't. 

Mr. Rice. Would it be roughly around $50,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. If it is, it is wrong. 

Mr. Rice. How many bonds did you cash ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember, Mr. Rice. . I don't know what 
all that was. You say it is interest ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know. You can develop that by getting 
hold of Mr. Harvey. He can explain that, 

Mr. Rice. Is this the only time you ever cashed bonds ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't think I ever cashed them more than once 
or twice, 

Mr. Rice. Did you do it more than once ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I did, yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What year was that that you did the other time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Was it 2 years ago, 3 years ago, or 10 years ago ? It was 
after the war, was it not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, I think it was after the war. 

Mr. Rice. So that the bonds that you cashed that year — we have 
counted them. Now there were some other bonds that you cashed. 
That was sometime in 1945. 

Mr. Culbreath. If there was any cashed it would be in reporting 
interest, I imagine. 

Mr. Rice. You are going back to all of 1 year 

Mr. Culbreath. Then I would have to check with Mr. Harvey's 
office to get the net on that because I don't remember, but I am sure 
he would be glad to give it to you. 

Mr. Rice. But you think yau may have cashed bonds in another 
year, other than 1949? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, I may have. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 231 

Mr. Rice. How do you account for the fact that if you did that, 
you did not show any income from the interest ? 

Mr. Culbreath. If I didn't show it, it was just an oversight. 

Mr. Rice. It was an oversight? . 

Mr. Culbreath. I would say, if I didn't show it. That is all. 

Mr. Rice. Do you think that you ever committed an oversight? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I have committed some in my life and I 
guess I will commit some more. 

3 Mr. Rice. The total income in that year of $9,090 and a net after 
deductions of $4,950, with taxes paid of $848, so we take the $848 from 
the $4,950 and have a take-home of $4,102. 

All right, is this a fair picture of your income for the years 1941 to 
1949, your take-home? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Add that up, Mr. Klein. 

(Mr. Klein complied and reported $36,014.98.) 

Mr. Rice. All right. He had in 1940, when he started, what? 

Mr. Klein. $27,000. 

Mr. Rice. All right, add the $27,000 in there. 

Mr. Klein. $63,014.98. 

Mr. Rice. All right, turn it over and add up the other side. 

Mr. Klein. $95,893.52. 

Mr. Rice. This $95,893.52, then, represents your property acquisi- 
tions and present holdings, since 1940, is that correct ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Property? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. That you have acquired since then ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, during that time you took in, according to your 
income-tax figures, $36,000. Would you like to explain how you do it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I thought we explained that earlier. It is a 
Jot of money there I testified I had that you have not taken into con- 
sideration. 

Mr. Rice. All right, where is the money ? 

Mr. Culbreath. It is spent, 

Mr. Rice. It is spent ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes; it is money that I have made, is what J 
bought the property with, what I have on hand. 

Mr. Rice. You bought the property with it, it cost you that, you 

put it out? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. If you will check the record I testified 
about the money I made from 1940, and you just go back to 1940 there. 
We have not gone back to 1930. 

Mr. Rice. You testified, though, that you only had $27,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to change your testimony ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What do you want to say ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I want it to stand just like it is. 

Mr. Rice. All right, if it is all right with you. 

Mr. Culbreath. I did not testify to that. 

Mr. Rice. What do you estimate your living expenses are each year 
from your take-home? 



232 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, just average; whatever they would be for an 
average family, a man and his wife. 

Mr. Eice. Didn't you have a boy in college? 

Mr. Culbreath. I did, and the Government paid for it. 

Mr. Rice. Both boys ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, one went to Annapolis and the other one 
went to the University of Georgia under the GI bill. I imagine they 
paid for both of them. 

Mr. Rice. You imagine they did ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. It didn't cost you anything, anyway? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; it cost the Government. 

Mr. Rice. How about during the summer? 

Mr. Culbreath. In the summer he worked. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to go back to 1940 and tell us how much, you 
had then ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I testified to what I had between 1930 and 1940 
early in this hearing. I want to stand on that. 

Mr. Rice. You want to stand on that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I think the record shows $27,000. 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; it won't show that. 

Mr. Rice. What will it show ? 

Mr. Culbreath. You were talking about that report there that was 
filed with the bonding company. You are not talking about what I 
earned or what I told you. 

Mr. Rice. I am not talking about anything but what you said. 
Tell us what you had in 1940? 

Mr. Culbreath. I stand on the testimony I have given. 

Mr. Rice. Then your explanation for your ability to spend more 
than you take in is that you had something, which you don't care to 
talk about, before. Is that it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. Mr. Rice, if you made $5,000 this year 
and don't spend it this year, there is nothing wrong with your spend- 
ing it next year. 

Mr. Rice. Not a thing. 

Mr. Culbreath. Not a thing. It is your money and you can spend 
it, and if you don't want to spend it the next year and you want to 
spend it the second or the third or fourth or fifth or tenth year, you 
can do that. 

Mr. Rice. You have testified what your income was during the 
time you were in the meat business and during the time you were in the 
fish business, and arrived at a figure there. 

Mr. Culbreath. And constable at $7,500 a year with no income 
tax taken off of it. That is not shown there at all, and all that goes 
in. I want to be fair to you, but I am just one member of the Govern- 
ment of this country. I am just one of the people, the same as you 
are, and I don't think it is fair for you to sit over there and try to 
make me look bad or to put words in my mouth and don't give the 
other side a fair chance. 

Mr. Rice. You have a chance. You have a chance to straighten us 
out and you are not doing it. 

Mr. Culbreath. I am doing the best I can, and I have given you 
the facts, and that is what they are, and I am going to stand on them. 



ORGANIZED CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 233 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, the statement here, on question 40, as signed 
by you on December 9, 1940, reads as follows : 

Give approximate value of personal property, stating whether household goods, 
cash on hand or in banks, or anything of value. 

You state that, above your signature, to be $30,000, and you make 
no qualifications. Now, either your statement to the committee today 
is in error or this was not a truthful statement. Now, which 

Mr. Culbreath. This is not a truthful statement. 

Senator Hunt. Which do you want to stand on ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is not a truthful statement. I explained that 
when I testified or answered Mr. Eice's questions that I only put down 
what I felt was necessary to satisfy the bonding company. 

Senator Hunt. Then this statement that you have placed your sig- 
nature to is an incorrect statement ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is not a true picture of my worth at that 
time, Senator. 

Mr. Rice. Are you in the habit of signing incorrect statements ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Mr. Eice, I explained that to you. I ■ 

Mr. Eice. No ; you haven't explained that. 

Mr. Culbreath. About a dozen times, that same piece of paper and 
what we did, what I did. 

Mr. Eice. You falsified it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. That is true. I owned that much. 

Mr. Pierce. I object to that, Mr. Chairman. It may be an inade- 
quate statement but it wouldn't necessarily be a false statement. 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff, earlier in the testimony this afternoon we 
requested one additional piece of information. You were kind 
enough to consent for a member of the staff to go with you — I think it 
is to your home 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. To look into the safe at your home. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. We will excuse you now, and you may proceed to 
your home with a member of our staff; then, if you will, return. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. Fine. 

Mr. Pierce. Is the sheriff released or does he have to come back? 

Senator Hunt. His subpena still holds. 

[To Mr. Eice.] You are going with him ? 

Mr. Eice. Ealph Mills will go along. 

Mr. Pierce. Who is Ealph Mills ? 

Mr. Eice. A member of the staff. 

(Witness temporarily excused.) 

TESTIMONY OF ANTONIO DESCHAMPS, KEY WEST, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Deschants, please. Do you solemnly swear that 
the testimony you will give this committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I do. 

Mr. Eice. Will you state your name and address for the record, Mr. 
Deschants ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Antonio Deschamps, Key West, Fla. 

Mr. Eice. Key West, Fla. Did you formerly live in the Tampa area, 
Mr. Deschants? 



234 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Kice. Now, sir, you are here in response to a subpena served 
upon you ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kice. Now, then, when you were in Tampa, what did you do ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I worked for Jimmy Velasco. 

Mr. Rice. You worked for Jimmy Velasco. How long ago was 
that? 

Mr. Deschamps. Up until the itme he got killed. 

Mr. Rice. When did you start working for him ? 

Mr. Deschamps. It would have been a little over 2 years before. 

Mr. Rice. So for the 2 years prior to the time he was killed you were 
working for Velasco ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was he doing? What was his job? 

Mr. Deschamps. His job? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Deschamps. He was banking bolita. 

Mr. Rice. He was banking bolita. He was a gambling operator. 
And what was your job ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Just checking. 

Mr. Rice. Just checking. What did you check? 

Mr. Deschamps. Checked the sale of the bolita peddlers. 

Mr. Rice. You kept the accounts and records for Jimmy Velasco ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, not exactly. 

Mr. Rice. But you checked the bolita sales for him ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And you worked very closely with Jimmy Velasco on 
that and would see him every day ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Pretty near every day. 

Mr. Rice. Every day. Were you ever arrested in doing that? 

Mr. Deschamps. No. 

Mr. Rice. Are you related to Velasco ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What relation are you or were you ? 

Mr. Deschamps. First cousin. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, tell us what you know about Velasco's arrange- 
ments for protection from arrests for his peddlers? How did that 
work? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, I don't know very much about it. I never did 
make it a point to ask him any questions. But one particular day 
that bad numbers came out, he lost quite a bit of money, and in doing 
the checking he started drinking. So, when we got through with the 
checking, on the way to take him home, he said, "You see, this is what 
gets me. After losing all this money, I have still got to make this 
kind of a pay-off." So I had noticed several times on this in-and-out 
sheet that they used to make. 

Mr. Rice. An in-and-out sheet? 

Mr. Deschamps. Daily. 

Mr. Rice. An in-and-out sheet ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. I show you some photographs and ask you if you recog- 
nize them. What are those? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 235 

Mr. Deschamps. These are some of the lists. 
Mr. Rice. Those are the in-and-out sheets. How do they work ? 
Mr. Deschamps. Well, these show the name of the peddler. These 
are the sales and this is the hits. 

Mr. Rice. This is the name of the peddler in the first column? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And this is what? 

Mr. Deschamps. This is the sale. 

Mr. Rice. The amount of sale that they made of bolita. Over 
what period ? 

Mr. Deschamps. After taking their commission off. 

Mr. Rice. After deducting his commission. What was his com- 
mission? i 

Mr. Deschamps. Fifteen percent, 

Mr. Rice. The peddler got 15 percent of his gross business? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is this column ? 

Air. Deschamps. This is the hits. 

Mr. Rice. The hits. What happened to a peddler on a hit? 

Mr. Deschamps. What do you mean? 

Mr. Rice. If a peddler sells a dollar's worth of numbers he deducts 
15 percent and turns in 85 percent. Now, suppose there is a hit on 
that number. What does he get ? 

Air. Deschamps. Well, say it is a $4 hit, why they send him $4. 

Mr. Rice. The banker pays and it doesn't affect his income at all ? 

Mr. Deschamps. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. And these are the hits on this column ? 

Mr. Deschamps. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. This column is the hits, and this column — it is the same 
thing over again ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, these are the totals ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. This is the gross action or business, and these are the 
total hits? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. In your practice, do you find that hits ever come close 
to the action or the total ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Oh, sometimes they were more than that. 

Mr. Rice. On the average, on the whole, it is a money-making 
proposition, isn't it ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Oh, yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. x\nd what are these figures down at the bottom here ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, this is where they used to put the expenses. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Tell me about those. 

Mr. Deschamps. I don't know about those. 

Mr. Rice. You handled those, didn't you ? 

Mr. Deschamps. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You handled the figures ? 

Mr. Deschamps. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, you understood what the expenses were ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, this expense. 

Mr. Rice. Read them. 



23() ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Deschamps. I can't read those. 

Mr. Rice. You can't read those. Didn't you write these? 

Mr. Deschamps. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You handled others like this ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Something like that, on that order, but those are 
not some of the ones. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, do you recognize those as Velasco's peddlers ? 

Mr. Deschamps. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who do you think they are ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I couldn't say for sure who they belong to. 

Mr. Rice. They are exactly similar to Velasco's rundown sheets? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And how did he handle his protection ? How were the 
payments made ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, I couldn't say exactly about that. As I was 
saying before, on this particular day that he had made a big loss — — 

Mr. Rice (interrupting). He had a big loss. 

Mr. Deschamps. And I was driving him home. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Deschamps. He had made this remark about having to, after 
losing all that money, he still had to pay— to make this big payoff. 

Mr. Rice. What were those big payoffs that he had to make ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, I had noticed at the bottom of the list some 
names, one name in particular on top. That name was Cabeza de 
Melon. 

Mr. Rice. How do you spell that? Is that a Spanish word? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, translated it means melon head. 

Mr. Rice. And who was that '. 

Mr. Deschamps. I couldn't say for sure. From what I heard that 
was the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. That referred to the sheriff, Sheriff Culbreath. Melon 
head ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. I didn't name him that myself but I have 
heard that name several times. 

Mr. Rice. What other names were on there? 

Mr. Deschamps. There was an R next to that. 

Mr. Rice. What did that stand for? 

Mr. Deschamps. Let me get to this point first ? 

Mr. Rice. Sure. 

Mr. Deschamps. When I was taking him home that afternoon, I 
had noticed those names there several times and I had never asked him 
about that myself, but this day— I don't know— I was just curious, 
1 guess— find I asked him who they were. There was melon head, 
the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Cabeza de Melon was on there ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And R. 

Mr. Deschamps. R was Rex, Rex Farrior. 

Mr. Rice. Rex Farrior, he was State attorney. 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes ; and E. D. was Chief of Police Eddings. 

Mr. Rice. What was under that ? 

Mr. Deschamps. E. D. 

Mr. Rice. That was Chief of Police, J. L. Eddings, the former 
chief of police ? ' 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 237' 

Mr Deschamps. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Now what were the figures next to those names, the- 
amounts? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, this top one, it was $500. 

Mr. Rice. On the top one, melon head, it was $500. Is that a weekly 
figure ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I think they were weekly ; yes. 

Mr. Rice. A weekly figure. All right. What was on the R ? 

Mr. Deschamps. $500. 

Mr. Rice. $500 or more. And how about E. D. ? 

Mr. Deschamps. $250. 

Mr. Rice. Was that, of your knowledge, in operations there, a 
weekly payoff to the three officials, totaling, $1,250 ? 

Mr. Deschamps. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Did that take place during the entire time that you were 
with Jimmy, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Well, I couldn't swear to that. Sometimes I 
saw that list and sometimes I didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what was the word you got from Jimmy as to 
the protection. You knew he was paying it because they were per- 
mitting you to operate, isn't that true? 

Mr. Deschamps. I couldn't say to that. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what kept you from being arrested \ 

Mr. Deschamps. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. There was a payoff, was there not ? 

Mr. Deschamps. It looked to me like there was. 

Mr. Rice. That was your understanding? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, were there any other officials paid also ? How about 
the constable ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I couldn't say. 

Mr. Rice. Any deputies? 

Mr. Deschamps. I couldn't say about that. 

Mr. Rice. How about Mayor Hixon ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Him either. 

Mr. Rice. Nothing you mean ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I couldn't say anything about that. 

Mr. Rice. How about Walter Wooten ? 

Mr. Deschamps. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, on that afternoon the complaint was made, he 
had been hit hard and actually had lost for that day, but still he 
had to make a payoff? 

Mr. Deschamps. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. And it was just in the nature of a complaint? 

Mr. Deschamps. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. And that continued, so far as you know, up until the 
time of his death ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you were with him until the time of his death? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What happened to you after that? 

Mr. Deschamps. What happened to me ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 16 



238 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Deschamps. I left town. 

Mr. Rice. You left town? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go somewhere for your health? 

Mr. Deschamps. I went some place looking for something to do to 
•make a living. 

Mr. Rice. Really, why did you leave town ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Because I was disgusted with Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. What contributed to your disgust ? 

Mr. Deschamps. The things that happen here for so many years 
that would disgust anybody. 

Mr. Rice. People being murdered and a few things like that? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you occasionally drive — you said you drove Jimmy 
around ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Sometimes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever take him to the home of Mayor Hixon? 

Mr. Deschamps. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. A number of times ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Maybe twice. Maybe a couple or three times. 

Mr. Rice. At night or day ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Night. 

Mr. Rice. What happened when you went there? 

Mr. Deschamps. I just drove there. That's all. 

Mr. Rice. And he went in ? 

Mr. Deschamps. He went in. 

Mr. Rice. How long did he stay ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Maybe a half hour or an hour. 

Mr. Rice. Then what? 

Mr. Deschamps. He came out. 

Mr. Rice. Did he say anything about what he did in there ? 

Mr. Deschamps. No. 

Mr. Rice. While he was in there, where did you park ? 

Mr. Deschamps. Maybe a block or a block and a half from the 
house. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you do that ? 

Mr. Deschamps. He told me to. 

Mr. Rice. You parked away from there. Did you go around the 
corner somewhere ? 

Mr. Deschamps. No, sir; just parked. 

Mr. Rice. You just parked ? 

Mr. Deschamps. A little way from there to wait for him. 

Mr. Rice. Why did he want you to do that ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I don't know. He didn't say. 

Mr. Rice. How did he find you when he came out ? 

Mr. Deschamps. I would be parked in the same place. 

Mr. Rice. You had to find him or he had to find you ? 

Mr. Deschamps. He would find me. 

Mr. Rice. He had to find you. I think that is all for now. You 
may be excused, Mr. Deschamps. 

(Witness excused.) 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Lounders, please take the witness chair. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 239 

TESTIMONY OF MARIO LOUNDERS, HIALEAH, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Lounders. I do. n , , » 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Lounders, will you state your name and address tor 

the record ? 

Mr. Lounders. Mario Lounders. 

TVT-p Tk.jr'E Yes sir. 

Mr* Lounders.' 721 Southeast Sixth Place, Hialeah, Fla. 

Mr. Rice. Hialeah, Fla. Now, Mr. Lounders, how long have you 
been down at Hialeah ? 

Mr. Lounders. Two years. 

Mr. Rice. Going on 2 years? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes. 

Mr Rice. And what did you do before that I 

Mr. Lounders. Before that I worked, had a little grocery store, and 
before that had a filling station. 

Mr. Rice. Where? 

Mr. Lounders. In Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. In Tampa ? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you work for Jimmy Velasco i 

Mr. Lounders. "No, sir. I helped sometimes. He was my cousin. 

Mr. Rice. He was your cousin? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did you help him do? t . 

Mr Lounders. I drove him around sometimes. I took him around 
sometimes, when he used to call me at the house to take him around. 

Mr. Rice. And you drove him around? 

Mr. Lounders. A few times, I did. . 

Mr. Rice. Now, you more or less acted as a chauffeur or driver as 
an accommodation to Velasco ? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. He was a bolita peddler, was he not? 

Mr. Lounders. He was. . , 

Mr. Rice. Now, tell us about his arrangements for protection from 

la I^ Lounders. Well, a few times that I took him-he told me to 
take him out in the nighttime to take some money in an envelope, 
and I aTked him a few times what it was about, what he had m the 

en Mr? P RxcE a (fnWmgMVait a minute. You made the statement 
that he had an envelope ? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes ; he had an envelope 

Mr. Rice. He had an envelope with him i . 

Mr. Lounders. That's right I asked him what hekdmi t and 
he said money, and I asked him "money for who?" He said, You 
^U see now when you take me." And when I took .him he said, "This 
is for the sheriff." He said, "Take me to the county 3 ail.' ! So I took 
him to the county jail and he got out with the money and went inside 
So?I 'stayed outsfde all of the time and when he came out, then we went 
somewhere else when he came out. 



240 ORGANIZES) CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE: 

Mr. Rice. Did he have one less envelope ? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What did the envelope look like ? 

Mr. Lounders. It was a white, long envelope. 

Mr. Rice. Plain? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Was anything written on it ? 

Mr. Lounders. I couldn't see it at night if it had anything written 
on it. Then, we went to Chief Eddings' house on Davis Islands, across- 
i'roni the golf course. 

Mr. Rice. He was across from the golf course ? 

Mr. Lounders. He was across from the golf course, where Chief 
Eddings lives. He left another envelope over there and told me it was 
for Chief Eddings. 

Mr. Rice. How long was he over there ? 

Mr. Lounders. He left the money and went by the house, and left 
the money there. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go with him ? 

Mr. Lounders. No, sir. I went with him, but not inside. 

Mr. Rice. You left it right at his home ? 

Mr. Lounders. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know who he left it with ? 

Mr. Lounders. Well, I can't say. 

Mr. Rice. Anyone he found there ? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes, that is right. I couldn't tell you that, becaus© 
I never went in. 

Mr. Rice. And who else ? 

Mr. Lounders. Well, Rex Farrior. That was in the daytime with 
Rex Farrior most of the time. I took him over in the daytime to the 
Tampa Theater Building. 

Mr. Rice. He would go in the Tampa Theater Building? 

Mr. Lounders. I would leave him over there at the entrance of the 
Tampa Theater Building and I would go and park and sometimes- 
1 would go around the block a couple of times, and he would come out. 

Mr. Rice. And did he take an envelope there ? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, that is three. Were there any others ? 

Mr. Lounders. That's all. 

Mr. Rice. Just those three envelopes? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did he tell you what the arrangements were with Farrior 
or Eddings or Culbreath ? 

Mr. Lounders. Well, I asked him a few times, it seems like I did, 
what kind of money was it, and he told me he paid the sheriff $1,000 
a week. 

Mr. Rice. $1,000 a week? 

Mr. Lounders. That's right, $1,000 a week. And Chief Eddings 
ran from $250 to $400 a week, and Farrior used to get from $500 to 
$2,000, not every week. 

Mr. Rice. Once in awhile ? 

Mr. Lounders. Once in a while, that's right. 

Mr. Rice. How many times woud you say that you drove Jimmy 
around? 



ORGANIZED C'RTME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 241 

Mr. Lounders. Oh, about 8 or 10 times. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever go 2 weeks consecutively, 2 weeks in a row « 

Mr. Lounders. No, I did not. 

Mr. Rice. You would go a week and skip a week? 

Mr. Lounders. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, you took $1,000 a week to Sheriff Culbreath. 
Did you have any knowledge or impression that anyone else shared 
in that, that that was passed down to the deputies ? 

Mr. Lounders. No. I can't answer that, because I didn't know. 
He never told me that. He just told me that he had to take it, take it 
in to the sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. He had to take it into the sheriff? 

Mr. Lounders. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Was that payoff arrangement perfectly satisfactory to 
Jimmy or was it burdensome ? 

Mr7 Lounders. Well, once or twice— you mean if he had enough 
money to pay for it? 

Mr. Rice/ Was it too much? Was he complaining? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes, he was complaining most of the time. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say ? 

Mr. Lounders. He said it was taking everything he was making 
and more. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what were they doing? Putting pressure on him? 

Mr. Lounders. It looked like it. That's what it was. _ 

Mr. Rice. Who was it that was putting the pressure on him ? 

Mr. Lounders. I don't know where it came from ; but it could have 
come from Sheriff Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. Who was Mr. Big? 

Mr. Lounders. I can't tell you that. I never asked about that. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the real boss? 

Mr Lounders. Well. I don't know. I don't know who. Like I told 
you, he paid the three of them— the sheriff, the State attorney, and 
the chief of police, so between the three of them, I don't know which of 
the three of them was the biggest. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any questions. Senator ? 

Senator Hunt. Did you ever see this envelope prepared before they 
were delivered ? Did you ever see the money placed in the envelopes ? 

Mr. Lounders. No. sir; I did not. 

Senator Hunt. When Jimmy would go to deliver envelopes he 
didn't leave any remaining—if he was going to make three deliveries 
that day he, of course, would carry all three envelopes with him to each 
place. * Did he ever leave any envel ope with you ? 

Mr. Lounders. No, he didn't. He always put it in a different pocket 
in his coat inside, and outside of his pocket. Probably, he would know 
which was which. 

Senator Hunt. Now, do you bear any ill will or any unkind feel- 
ing toward either of the three men that Jimmy was paying off? 

Mr. Lounders. No, sir. 

Senator Hunt. None whatsoever? 

Mr. Lounders. No, sir ; none whatsoever. 

Senator Hunt. They have never injured you in any way? 
Mr. Lounders. No, sir. 

Senator Hunt. In no way? 



242 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Lounders. No, sir. In fact, I don't believe they know me. 

Senator Hunt. So, there is no malice in your make-up with refer- 
ence to these three gentlemen ? 

Mr. Lounders. No, sir. 

Senator Hunt. You were just simply accommodating your cousin 
by acting as chauffeur ? 

Mr. Rice. With respect to Eex Farrior, the State attorney, I be- 
lieve you said that the amount paid to him, according to your infor- 
mation, varied? 

Mr. Lounders. Yes, sir; it varied. 

Mr. Kice. What controlled that variance? 

Mr. Lounders. I couldn't tell you about that, because I don't know 
anything about that. 

Mr. Rice. Did he participate in a percentage of the profits? 

Mr. Lounders. That is what it looked like. 

Mr. Rice. Was that your understanding ? 

Mr. Lounders. That is what I think. It looks like to me if it 
varies from $500 to $2,000 it should be that. 

Mr. Rice. Did Jimmy tell you that ? 

Mr. Lounders. No ; he didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Did you get the impression that he was a good friend 
of Farrior? 

Mr. Lounders. I think Jimmy thought a lot of Mr. Farrior. 

Mr. Rice. Why do you say that ? 

Mr. Lounders. Because whenever I went with him he talked nice 
about him, how nice a man he was. 

Mr. Rice. He would take less some weeks than he would others? 

Mr. Lounders. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. I think that is all. 

Senator Hunt. The hearing will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Recess had.) 

Senator Hunt. Is Oscar Perez in the room ? 

TESTIMONY OF OSCAR PEREZ, MIAMI, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Perez. I do. 

Mr. Rice. How do you pronounce your name ? 

Mr. Perez. Perez, P-e-r-e-z. 

Mr. Rice. And what is your full name ? 

Mr. Perez. Oscar J. Perez. 

Mr. Rice. And where do you reside? 

Mr. Perez. I reside on Fifty-sixth Street in Miami. 

Mr. Rice. And you are appearing here in response to subpena ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you been down in Miami? 

Mr. Perez. A little better than 3 years. 

Mr. Rice. And before that, what did you do ? 

Mr. Perez. I was Jimmy Velasco's private chauffeur. 

Mr. Rice. Here in Tampa ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How long were you with Velasco ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 243 

Mr. Perez. I would say for a period of about 3 years. 

Mr Rice. About 3 years? And what was his business! 

Mr. Perez. He was in the bolita business and gambling in general. 

Mr. Rice. I see. What did you do as his chauffeur ? 

Mr. Perez. My duty was to drive him to and from every place that 
he went, with the exception of those moments when I had to go home 
for dinner or otherwise. 

Mr. Rice. I see. And when he went to and from, did he usually 

go armed ? i ' 

Mr. Perez. Well, from late in the afternoon, I would say from 5 
o'clock in the afternoon, we would go to his house and he would get 
his revolver and he would be armed from then on until I would leave 
his home late at night, sometime about 2 or 3 or 4 o'clock in the 
morning. 

Mr. Rice. He would be armed then ? How about you I 

Mr. Perez. I stayed armed all the time. 

Mr. Rice. You stayed armed all the time ? 

TVTv Perez Y^es sir. 

Mr! Rice. Would you say that you served as a bodyguard, as well 
as a chauffeur? • . 

Mr. Perez. No, sir; because I don't believe that I am qualified to- 
act as a bodvguard. In the first place, I don't think that I can 
intimidate anybody— I doivt look to be a tough guy— I can't intimi- 
date anybody by looking at them, or that I can forcefully beat up- 
anybody, because physically I don't believe that I am capable of 
probably holding my own. 

Mr. Rice. How about with bullets ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I am not an expert marksman. I can shoot a 
gun, I guess. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for carrying the guns? 

Mr. Perez. Well, my reason for carrying a gun was for myself and 
protection. I saw he was armed so I took it for granted that if he 
was armed it was because he feared somebody would hurt him. Me 
being in the car as well, why, I thought that at least I should have 
some means of protection and carried my own gun. 

Mr. Rice. Could you give us some idea of the syndicate here in 
Tampa, as you knew it, both from your personal observation and from 
your close association with Jimmy Velasco, who the figures were? 

Mr. Perez. Well, let me understand your question correctly. You 
want me to describe the members of the syndicate, is that it? 

Mr. Rice. If you know them. 

Mr. Perez. Well, to the best of my knowledge, the members of the 
syndicate, as I understand it — of course, I may be wrong ■ 

Mr. Rice. Was Primo Lazzaro, as a front for Red Italiano and: 
Jimmie Lumia 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. One section ? Gus Friscia on another section ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Angel Daniel on another section ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. The Trafficantes in another section ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Decidue in another section ? 



.244 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Perez. Yes. Jimmy Velasco was given a cut, the way I under- 
stand it, of Gus Friscia's business, which was very liberal. Jimmy 
and I had talked together several times and he told me they did that 
because they were only giving him 15 percent of the business of Gus 
Friscia and they didn't want to cut him in on the rest of the business. 

Mr. Rice. Now who bossed this arrangement? Who is "they 1 ' that 
would only give him the cut ? Who is the boss ? 

Mr. Perez. The Traffieantes was fronting for one section, Primo 
Lazzaro was fronting for another, Gus Friscia for another, and so on 
and so forth, so the higher-ups as far as Jimmie Velasco was concerned, 
and he told me — now, I can't personally vouch for this, because I don't 
know — I am just telling you what someone else related to me — was 
Sheriff Culbreath, Red Italiano, Jimmie Lumia, and Angel Daniels. 

Mr. Rice. They were the higher-ups ? They were the board of 
directors, according to your information? 

Mr. Perez. Well, something of that sort, yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where did Trafficante stand in relation to them? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I guess he was tied in with them somewhere or 
another, I might have failed to mention. 

Mr. Rice. Did they give him orders or did he give them orders? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I guess all these fellows that were serving as 
fronts were taking orders from the real McCoy, from the real guys. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the real guy ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, the guys I mentioned, Sheriff Culbreath, Red 
Italiano, and Angel Daniels. 

Mr. Rice. Of the real guys, who would you say was Mr. Big ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I guess they were all one just as big as the other. 

Mr. Rice. They pulled the same way ? 

Mr. Perez. I guess so. Sheriff Culbreath 's campaign manager, 
when he ran for sheriff, was Red Italiano, and Mr. Velasco, Jimmy 
Velasco's daddy. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Perez. At least as far as the Latin population was concerned. 

Mr. Rice. They were getting votes in the Latin area? 

Mr. Perez. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Now, tell us about how the protection of the gambling 
operation worked. 

Mr. Perez. Well, the way I think it worked was this way. They had 
to make some kind of a showing — when I say "they" I mean the 
sheriff — so therefore he arrested some people at some time, but he never 
arrested those who came under the fronts of other guys, but those 
who came under Gus Friscia, like Paul Giglia. Paul Giglia was sell- 
ing directly for Jimmy Velasco and Gus Friscia. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Perez. So when they had to pull a pinch, they pulled a pinch 
•on Giglia, or some other guy who was under the Velasco set-up, so 
that would be how much less the boy got. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. And did they complain about that — Velasco? 

Mr. Perez. Well, he did occasionally, but it didn't do him any good. 

Mr. Rice. Well, that Avas all right with him. He was — in general, 
he was being protected on the top level anyhow, wasn't he? 

Mr. Perez. Well, he personally was being protected, but his cut was 
being shorter because every time you took a thousand dollars out of 
his cut, that was that much less percentage he got. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 245 

Mr. Rice. "Well, now. did you drive him around in connection with 
the pay-offs to insure this protection? 

Mr. Perez. "Well, I drove him everywhere. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you drive him ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I drove him around town to various different 
places. I brought him to the sheriff's office, I brought him to the 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute. Xow when you went to the sheriff's 
office, who went in? 

Mr. Perez. Well, Jimmy did all the transacting. I was just merely 
acting as the chauffeur. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go in with him ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, at times I did, yes. Sat on the porch, and sat 
in the office there, and just chatted with the boys. t 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever see him give him any money ? An envelope? 

Mr. Perez. I have seen him hand him envelopes. 

Mr. Rice. What was in the envelope \ 

Mr. Perez. Money. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see him put the money in the envelope? 

Mr. Perez. Well, at times I have helped him cut the money. 

Mr. Rice. You helped him cut 

Mr. Perez. Count it. 

Mr. Rice. Count it ? You helped him count it ? 

Mr. Perez. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. How much was the weekly amount that was paid to 
Culbreath? 

Mr. Perez. If I don't recall wrongly, somewhere something around 
a thousand dollars. 

Mr. Rice. A thousand dollars a week. Was that for Culbreath y 
personally, or was he to redistribute that to someone? 

Mr. Perez. Well, that is something I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. As far as you know, it was a thousand dollars 

Mr. Perez. As far as I know, it was given to him. 

Mr. Rice. I see. So there were occasions when you helped to count 
the money, place it in the envelope and took Velasco to the sheriff's 
office and saw him hand it to him ? 

Mr. Perez. That's right. It would be just a matter of you and I 
being together and you had a thousand or two thousand or five thou- 
sand or ten thousand dollars on the table, and you said, count me a 
thousand dollars there, and I would just count the thousand and here 
it is in the envelope. 

Mr. Rice. What would Culbreath say when he received it ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I wouldn't be able to say that because most of the 
time when those transactions were taken they would go into the — you 
see, next to the jail room there is a little office there. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Perez. And in that office is some company that has another 
office, and they would go into that office and talk. 

Mr. Rice. They would go into the inner sanctum? 

Mr. Perez. That is right. That is what you would call it. 

Mr. Rice. What would you call it? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I tell } T ou. I wouldn't — the rathole, I guess. 

Mr. Rice. The rathole. What did you call the sheriff? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I never called him anything. I have heard him 
called "Melonhead'' millions of times. 



246 ORGANTZEID CRIME EV INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Now, how about Eddings ? 

Mr. Perez. I have been personally to the chief of police's office with 
Jimmy, and I have also been to the police station, in fact, I used to 
park in the police station as though I was the mayor. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever go to his home? 

Mr. Perez. Yes; I have. 

Mr. Rice. And where did you park the car when you went to 
Edding's home 

Mr. Perez. Right in his own driveway and backed it in instead of 
facing it in. 

Mr. Rice. Did you back the car into the driveway? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, with the purpose of keeping my license plate away 
:f rom the view of the. people. 

Mr. Rice. I see. In Florida, you have just the rear license plate? 
Then, what would happen then? 

Mr. Perez. Well, Jimmie would go in. You see that has the garage 
and that has the breezeway connecting into his home on Davis Island. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Perez. I would back my car up close to his back door and then 
lie would get off the car and went through the breezeway and then 
sometimes sit there at the breezewa}^ and sometimes would go in the 
house and other times they would go in the back of the garage, they 
had a beautiful lawn there facing a canal or waterway, what you may 
•call it. Sit and talk and they would have a big time there. And one 
time I went there and I had a terrific argument with Jimmy one night 
there. That was just before he was killed, a couple of weeks, or some- 
thing like that. 

Mr. Rice. You had an argument? 

Mr. Perez. No, no, they had an argument. 

Mr. Rice. Eddings and Jimmy had an argument ? Did Jimmie tell 
j'ou what that was about ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, no, I didn't question him. 

Mr. Rice. How did he come out in the argument? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I don't know. He was very irate. 

Mr. Rice. He was very what? 

Mr. Perez. Irate ; he was mad. 

Mr. Rice. Irritated? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, irritated. And I didn't want to question him be- 
•cause he wasn't in the mood to be questioned. 

Mr. Rice. Now, how about Farrior? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I have gone 

Mr. Rice. Before we leave Eddings, what — did you help to count the 
money to go to Eddings from time to time? 

Mr. Perez. I used to help him count the money all the time. 

Mr. Rice. And what was his weekly take? 

Mr. Perez. Well, it varied ; sometimes $500, sometimes $600 ; it all 
■depends on things mostly. 

Mr. Rice. Why would it vary? 

Mr. Perez. Well, as in every kind of business I guess you had to 
balance your budget. [Applause from the audience.] 

Sometimes his take during the week will be better than other weeks, 
and, naturally, your expenses will be a little less or a little more. 

Mr. Rice. Was Eddings' arrangement a percentage, then? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I don't know. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 247 

Mr. Rice. Or was he just in a position where he would wait to see 
what Jimmy gave him, and if he didn't give him enough he would 
get irritated? 

Mr. Perez. I wouldn't be able to say that, because I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. But Culbreath's was $1,000 a week flat, win, lose or draw? 

Mr. Perez. That's right. Sometimes he wouldn't get a thousand 
dollars— probably got cried out of what was short there. 

Mr. Rice. Got what? 

Mr. Perez. Got cried out of what was short. 

Mr. Rice. Eddings drew what, on the average ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, 500, up. Wait a minute, I beg your pardon. I 
think it was between two-fifty and five hundred. Something like 
<hat, something to that effect. 

Mr. Rice. It ranged between those figures weekly? 

Mr. Perez. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. How about Farrior? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I have taken Jimmy on several occasions to Mr. 
Farrior's home. If I am not mistaken, I think it is located there 
immediately west of Howard Avenue; somewhere in that section. 
I don't exactly recall what that street is. 

Mr. Rice. And you 

Mr. Perez. I have waited there for him sometimes 2, 3, 4 hours; 
and I have also taken Jimmy Velasco to the Tampa Theater Build- 
ing and went as far as the elevator with him, and from then on Jimmy 
went on into the office, and what the transactions were that were 
taking place, or going on in there, I didn't hear them. 

Mr. Rice. Did you help count any money to go in envelopes for 
Mr. Farrior ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes ; I helped count money for everybody. 

Mr. Rice. For everybody ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. When the money was being distributed I was 
right there, and I wanted to make myself useful, and I helped him. 

Mr. Rice. What was Mr. Farrior's arrangement, per week? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I can't truthfully say it was every week that I 
went there, understand. 

Mr. Rice. Was he irregular? 

Mr. Perez. Well, something like that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you remember any specific amounts that were turned 
over to Farrior that you helped to count ? 

Mr. Perez. I remember one time counting, I think it was seven 
or eight hundred dollars. I don't quite remember. 

Mr, Rice. Seven or eight hundred dollars ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And you took the envelope 

Mr. Perez. I didn't take the envelope ; Jimmy did. 

Mr. Rice. And when he left there he didn't have the envelope? 

Mr. Perez. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. Were these political contributions or was this protection 
money ? 

Mr. Perez. I don't believe you make political contributions in the 
middle of an administration. You make political contributions some 
time in the verge of the campaign. 

Mr. Rice. So these times you are talking about, they were not dur- 
ing any campaign period ? 



248 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Perez. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. How about Curtis Hixon? 

Mr. Perez. I have taken Jimmy Velasco to Sir.. Hixson's house 
on several occasions. 

Mr. Rice. What took place there? 

Mr. Perez. I don't know, because I never went in. 

Mr. Rice. Did he take an envelope there? 

Mr. Perez. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. Did he go into the house? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. At night ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. He went in? 

Mr. Perez. I presume he did, } 7 es. 

Mr. Price. Where did you park your car? 

Mr. Perez. I parked the car just, I would say — oh, a short distance 
from the house. He doesn't live right on the corner of the inter- 
section. I think there is a lot or something in between the inter- 
section of the other street and his home. 

Mr. Rice. Where does he live ? 

Mr. Perez. He used to live on Amelia. I understand he doesn't live- 
there any more now. 

Mr. Rice. At the time you were going there he lived there? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you would go around the corner? 

Mr. Perez. I would come up Amelia and stop at the corner, and 
Jimmy would go to his house, and I would come around in a little 
dark place, out of the way. 

Mr. Rice. Why didn't you park right in front ? 

Mr. Perez. I guess publicity didn't work very much. Jimmy didn't 
want the idea of people knowing he was there. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the car listed to ? 

Mr. Perez. Originally, the car was bought by Henry Canto, and 
Jimmy Velasco bought it from him during the war, because in them 
days cars weren't available for civilian use, and they could be bought 
for authorities and doctors, and so on and so forth. This car was 
bought by Henry Canto and sold to Jimmy. 

Mr. Rice. What type of car was it? 

Mr. Perez. A 1942 Plymouth four-door sedan. 

Mr. Rice. That was the one you drove? 

Mr. Perez. I drove that car. 

Mr. Rice. What was Canto's job? 

Mr. Perez. To the best of my knowledge, he was a deputy sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. The car was bought by him? 

Mr. Perez. Yes ; so I understand. 

Mr. Rice. And used by you and Jimmy ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What were the arrangements with Manuel Garcia ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I don't know what arrangements Jimmy Velasco- 
had with him. I have taken money to Manuel Garcia on several 
occasions in this building over here on Lafayette — not Lafayette, I 
beg pardon — on Madison and Franklin. 

Mr. Rice. Did he take money over there ? 

Mr. Perez. I have taken it, personally. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 249 

Mr. Rice. You have personally taken money over there? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about that. m 

Mr Perez I don't know what transactions it was. I have been 
told, "Take this to Manny Garcia," and I went over there and gave 
him money. 

Mr. Rice. Who told you to take it? 

Mr. Perez. Jimmy Velasco. 

Mr Rice. How much did Jimmy give him ? 

Mr. Perez. Well, I can't exactly recall the amount, because it was 
on various, different occasions. It ranged anywhere to above $150. 

Mr. Rice. Cash money? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you put it in an envelope? 

Mr Perez. Sometimes I did ; other times I took the cash. 

Mr. Rice. What did you tell Garcia when you would hand it to 

him ^ 

Mr. Perez. I just gave it to him and I would say, "Jimmy sent you 

this." 

Mr. Rice. And walk away? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What would he say? 

Mr. Perez. He wouldn't say. 

Mr. Rice. What would he do with it? 

Mr. Perez. Put it in his pocket. He most certainly wasn't going 
to lay it around. 

Mr. Rice. Now, tell us about the relationship between Velasco and 
Italiano and Anthony Distributors— whether they got along or 
whether thev argued? 

Mr. Perez. I understand they didn't get along very well. I have 
taken Jimmy over to the Anthony Distributors Co., around at the 
rear door, the rear, drive my car inside the big door of the warehouse, 
into the warehouse, and Jimmy would go in the office with him, and 
one time there was a tremendous scandal out there, but it was in- 
audible to me; I couldn't understand what they were saying because 
they were in the office, way back in the warehouse. I don't believe I 
could even approach the place. So they didn't get along very well, I 
don't think. 

Mr. Rice. Who drove Italiano around? 

Mr. Perez. To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever drove him. 
He drove his own car; but I would say that somewhere behind his 
car there would be somebody, always, going hunting. 

Mr. Rice. Who would that be? 

Mr. Perez. Joe Provenzano. 

Mr. Rice. Is Provenzano the man who was tried for the murder 
of Velasco ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did Provenzano go armed, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Perez. What do you mean by "armed"? Concealed weapons? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Perez. The only thing, the only thing I always seen him carry- 
ing, was shotguns in the front of the seat of his car there, a model A 
Ford. He was going hunting on Franklin Street. 

Mr. Rice. He carried shotguns on Franklin Street? 



250 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Sawed-off shotguns ? 

Mr. Perez. I couldn't say they were sawed-off shotguns, no. 

Mr. Rice. Long barrels ? 

Mr. Perez. They were regular shotguns. 

Mr. Rice. Going back to Garcia, he is a lawyer, is he not ? 

Mr. Perez. So I understand. 

Mr. Rice. What would be the reason for giving him money ? These 
other people are officials of law enforcement of the city. 

Mr. Perez. I didn't quite get you. 

Mr. Rice. What would be the reason for Jimmy sending money to 
Garcia ? 

Mr. Perez. You got me. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you ? 

Mr. Perez. He never told me. He never gave me any explanation. 

Mr. Rice. What is your idea ? 

Mr. Perez. I don't know. I know Jimmy Avas partly responsible 
for him being on the racing commission. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy was partly responsible for him being on the 
racing commission ? 

Mr. Perez. That's what I heard Jimmy tell. In fact, I remember 
going to Tallahassee or some place up the State, trying to place Manny 
Garcia in some good office. 

Mr. Rice. Why would he want to do that? 

Mr. Perez. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. What did Jimmy care about the racing commission I 

Mr. Perez. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. He didn't tell you that ? 

Mr. Perez. I never discussed those things with Jimmy. He told me 
this and this and this, and I just took it for granted that's what he 
wanted. 

Mr. Rice. Where were you when Jimmy was killed I 

Mr. Perez. In Mr. Morales' house. 

Mr. Rice. In Mr. Morales' house ? 

Mr. Perez. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. How did it happen that you were not with him ? 

Mr. Perez. That afternoon — in fact, it had been quite a few days 
that he wasn't going around steady with me. He would ride with me 
today and the next day he would ride with another guy. 

Mr. Rice. Who was the other fellow ? 

Mr. Perez. Mario Lounders was one fellow that took him around, 
and another fellow — I don't know his name exactly. I know his 
alias. He goes by "Pepe Fernandez." This particular day they 
were over at Morales', I understand, having some pig feet. 
This fat boy that was on a moment ago, he cooked them. They 
ate them. I was invited to eat there, and my wife was invited 
too, but she wasn't feeling so well right at that time and she 
was placed on a diet, so she didn't want to eat that; and since 
I didn't want to appear there by m3 T self and not carrying my 
wife along, when everybody else carried their wives, I decided to 
stay away from the dinner; but later in the afternoon I went there as a 
visitor. I was there at the time Jimmy got there, and then his wife 
come in. I understand she was in a movie somewhere. Jimmy told me, 
he says, "Oscar, don't leave, because I want you to drive me to the 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 251 

Old Fort." I said, "O. K." When his wife come in she says, ' v No, 
Jimmy. Let's go on home early." So he told me in Frank Morales', he 
said, "Yon get this envelope and take it over to the Old Fort." Who 
it was for I don't remember, bnt the fact was that Jimmy left the 
house, going toward his own home, with his wife and daughter, and 
he was shot and killed downstairs from this fellow's home. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any idea who did the shooting? 

Mr. Perez. In my own mind I have no question who done it, but I 
can't accuse anyone. 

Mr. Rice. One man ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who is that man ? 

Mr. Perez. The man who was accused of doing the job. 

Mr. Rice. Provenzano? 

Mr. Perez. That's right. 

Mr. Rice. I'll show you a photograph of a run-down sheet and ask 
you if you recognize that ? 

Mr. Perez. Do you mind me putting my glasses on ? 

Mr. Rice. Go right ahead. Does that look familiar to you? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What is it? 

Mr. Perez. This is the in-and-outs of the bolita business from 
Jimmy Velasco. 

Mr. Rice. Why do you say that ? 

Mr. Perez. Because I have seen it many a time. 

Mr. Rice. Do you recognize the names on there ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who are some of them ? 

Mr. Perez. Amilio, Charlie, Albany, A. B. — I can't understand the 
other one. 

Mr. Rice. You know all those people, then ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Take a look at some of these and tell if you know what 
they are. 

Mr. Perez. These lists right here, particularly, I will explain those. 
These are the names of the individuals that were registered and those 
men who were responsible for registering that party. This is the man, 
here. This fellow got credit for bringing this fellow in for the elec- 
tion. In other words, these lists were all pertaining to the election. 

Mr. Rice. You mean votes ? 

Mr. Perez. That's right; and if you go through there you may 
find some of my own. 

Mr. Rice. Did Jimmy have something { o do with this ? 

Mr. Perez. I don't know whether he typed them personally. 

Mr. Rice. But this was part of his job; he was out getting votes? 
Is that right? 

Mr. Perez. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Rice. How about this one ? 

Mr. Perez. This was a list — this was a list of some of the parties,, 
some of the boys of Lit Velasco, Jimmy Velasco's brother. 

Mr. Rice. Gamblers or voters? 

Mr. Perez. Voters. 

Mr. Rice. Or both? 



252 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Perez. No ; just voters, according to this. There might be some 
gamblers in there, as far as I know; 

Mr. Rice. How about this one? 

Mr. Perez. I have never seen this before. 

Mr. Rice. Does that mean anything to you? 

Mr. Perez. It has got Gus and Primo here. I guess that pertains 
to their business. 

Mr. Rice. It is a list of Gus' and Primo's. What does Gus and 
Primo mean to you ? 

Mr. Perez. Gus is the alias for Augustine Friscia. 

Mr. Rice. And what does Primo mean? 

Mr. Perez. Primo is the alias for Augustine, alias Primo. 

Mr. Rice. What is this place here, this address, The Yellow House? 

Mr. Perez. The Yellow House is a place located on the corner of 
Sixteenth Street and Eleventh Avenue owned and controlled by Primo 
Lazzaro. 

Mr. Rice. What sort of a place is it ? 

Mr. Perez. A liquor place. 

Mr. Rice. Does any gambling take place there? 

Mr. Perez. At one time, next door to it. 

Mr. Rice. How about the Royal Smoke Shop ? 

Mr. Perez. The Royal Smoke Shop, I don't know. I think it is a 
place located on Fortune Street, almost catty-cornered to the Inter- 
national Bank. 

Mr. Rice. Does this mean anything to you ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes; these bills. Altameda Poultry Market, the man 
that owns this was a special friend of Jimmy Velasco and Jimmy 
Velasco done him a great many favors by selling poultry from his 
market. At one time he sold quite a few turkeys, in fact, he had, I 
guess, 1,500 or 2,000 turkeys there, and Jimmie Velasco, through his 
contacts, sold them for him. 

Mr. Rice. These are these bills from the poultry market ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir ; these are the bills from the poultry market. 

Mr. Rice. That Jimmy paid ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir; that is right. 

Mr. Rice. Here is a sheet entitled "Expenses" and obviously it refers 
to the elections. Does this seem to be familiar to you as expenses 
incurred by Jimmie in connection with an election ? 

Mr. Perez. No. It is a compilation of Jimmy Velasco's list, but I 
don't know for what particular period of elections. Paid out and 
so on, because he had boys working for him and he contracted them 
for a certain amount of money per week or per month, and he always 
paid them back. 

Mr. Rice. Who did he back in the last campaign for sheriff ? 

Mr. Perez. He supported Billy Myers in the first primary. In the 
second primary, he was forced to go with Sheriff Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. He was forced to go with him ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Perez. The morning of the election we were working the elec- 
tion out of the Old Fort, and there was two deputies, I think, sent 
down there to watch Jimmy Velasco, that he wouldn't give them a 
double cross. The night before Gus Friscia made an appearance there 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 253 

and told Jimmy Velasco he was going to sleep with him, and Jimmy 
told him, he says, you are not a woman. 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute. What is this? 

Mr. Perez. The night before the election Gus Friscia went to the 
Old Fort and told Jimmy, he says, you have got to go and sleep with 
me at a hotel and Jimmy told him, I am not accustomed to sleeping 
with men, you are not a woman, so I am going home to my wife to 
sleep. 

Mr. Rice. Why did he do that ? 

Mr. Perez. Because he wanted to see that Jimmy was going straight 
during the night. 

Mr. Rice. What could he do during the night if he watched him ? 

Mr. Perez. I guess he was watching that Jimmy would not make 
contact with somebody else. 

Mr. Rice. That he would not swing any votes in the wrong direc- 
tion, is that the idea ? 

Mr. Perez. I imagine so. 

Senator Hunt. I have in my hand various photostatic copies of 
expense accounts and miscellaneous information, which will be re- 
tained by the committee as available for the record at a later date, if 
the committee desires to make them an exhibit for the record. 

Mr. Rice. One more question. Going back to Provenzano and 
Italiano. I think you testified that Provenzano usually went armed. 

Mr. Perez. Armed, as far as hunting paraphernalia was concerned. 

Mr. Rice. How close did he go to Italiano ; did he drive him around 
or act as a bodyguard ? 

Mr. Perez. I couldn't say he drove him around, or I couldn't say 
that he acted as his bodyguard. 

Mr. Rice. Have you seen them driving together ? 

Mr. Perez. No, sir. I have seen him following him. 

Mr. Rice. You have seen him following Italiano? 

Mr. Perez. His car; yes, sir. Italiano would be driving his car and 
somewhere behind would be this little model A truck with a cage in the 
back built as though to hold dogs. 

Mr. Rice. That was Provenzano's truck ? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And Provenzano was driving it? 

Mr. Perez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see that numerous times? 

Mr. Perez. Numerous times. 

Mr. Rice. Very many times. I think that is all. 

(Witness excused.) 

Senator Hunt. The chairman will take this opportunity to an- 
nounce for the press that Tony Accardo will appear before this com- 
mittee in Washington next Friday, January 5. 

Is Jesse Henry Dugan, Jr., in the room? 

TESTIMONY OF JESSE HENRY DUGAN, JR., TAMPA, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Dugan. I do. 

Mr. Rice. Please state your name and address for the record. 

68958 — 51— pt. la 17 



254 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Dugan. Jesse Henry Dugan, Jr., 1910 Tampa Street. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you lived in Tampa, Mr. Dugan? 

Mr. Dugan. Since I was 3 years old. 

Mr. Rice. And what do you do for a living, Mr. Dugan? 

Mr. Dugan. I work for the United States Plywood. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do before that ? 

Mr. Dugan. I used to work for Wellswood, Inc., before that. 

Mr. Rice. What before that ? 

Mr. Dugan. I was a deputy sheriff for Hugh Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. You were a deputy sheriff for Hugh Culbreath? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How long? 

Mr. Dugan. For 2 years. 

Mr. Rice. What years were they ? 

Mr. Dugan. 1946 to 1948. 

Mr. Rice. How did it happen that you left the job of deputy? 

Mr. Dugan. I resigned. 

Mr. Rice. You resigned to go with 

Mr. Dugan. There was several of us resigned at the same time. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for your resignation? 

Mr. Dugan. A protest. 

Mr. Rice. A protest of what? 

Mr. Dugan. Various conditions that existed at that time. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us a little bit about some of those conditions, the 
protection and the instructions you had with respect to making arrests 
and not making arrests and acquaint us with what happened. 

Mr. Dugan. We were instructed by Chief Criminal Deputy Neil 
Keen, not to make any gambling or any vice arrests. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you was the reason for that? 

Mr. Dugan. He claimed that he had received the instructions from 
the sheriff, himself. 

Mr. Rice. And what was the reason the instruction was given? 

Mr. Dugan. There was no reason given. 

Mr. Rice. He just told you not to make any arrests? 

Mr. Dugan. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Did any occasion ever happen when you saw vice activity 
or gambling takingplaee and you wanted to make an arrest and you 
were stopped ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir ; I witnessed gambling at South Howard Drive- 
in on several occasions and it was reported to Neil Keen and also to 
some people of the vice squad, and those reports were given over the 
radio so they would be lost. I made those reports over the radio so 
they would be lost in case anything ever came up. 

Mr. Rice. What happened to that ? 

Mr. Dugan. Nothing. 

Mr. Rice. Nothing. Now then, was one of the Tramcante boys 
arrested by a deputy ? 

Mr. Dugan. There was a deputy — I was told his name was Traffi- 
cante — who was arrested by Ted Glover. 

Mr. Rice. What happened ? 

Mr. Dugan. Ted Glover was called in and highly reprimanded for 
making the arrest. 

Mr. Rice. Did Glover tell you that ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE- 255 

Mr. Rice. And he was a deputy? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And who reprimanded him? 

Mr. Dugan. Sheriff Culbreath. 

Mr. Rice. For making the arrest of a Trafficante ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. Dugan. Personal friends. 

Mr. Rice. Trafficante was a personal friend of Culbreath and not 
to be touched? 

Mr. Dugan. That is what I was told by Ted Glover. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us what you know of Briggs & Co. 

Mr. Dugan. Well, Briggs & Co. was run by the Sheriff's brother 
Rookie and Leslie Cathcart. Rookie is almost blind and Leslie acts 
more as his eyes. I suppose you might say it is an organization just 
as a pastime for Rookie. 

Mr. Rice. All right. What do they do in connection with Briggs 
& Co. ? Do they take any bets ? 

Mr. Dugan. They would take bets. 

Mr. Rice. How did they operate that ? 

Mr. Dugan. Anyone around there that wanted to place a bet on 
maybe a dog track or horse track or maybe a ball game, or something 
like that, they would accept the bet. 

Mr. Rice. Now, where did this activity take place ? In the jail ? 

Mr. Dugan. It was in the sheriff's office, of the county jail. 

Mr. Rice. And these two men are deputies? 

Mr. Dugan. I don't believe Leslie Cathcart is a deputy. 

Mr. Rice. What was his capacity? 

Mr. Dugan. He is a dispatcher. 

Mr. Rice. Dispatcher? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, the situation is right in the sheriff's office itself? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And someone would come in and place a bet with them ? 

Mr. Dugan. Those that hung around there. 

Mr. Rice. Those that hung around would place bets. Did you ever 
place a bet with them? 

Mr. Dugan. I may have. I don't recall. 

Mr. Rice. It's possible that you did ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Dogs? 

Mr. Dugan. No, sir, I never bet on dogs. Just a game — a ball 
game or something like that. 

Mr. Rice. Would they give odds? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir, on certain things, they would give odds. 

Mr. Rice. Did they accept bolita bets? 

Mr. Dugan. No, I have never known one of them to accept a bolita 
bet. 

Mr. Rice. A dog bet ? 

Mr. Dugan. I don't believe so. I believe they would on horses. 

Mr. Rice. They would on horses ? 

Air. Dugan. When Sunshine Park was operating. 

Mr. Rice. Was there any telephone activity ? Would they just tele- 
phone action? 



256 ORGANIZE© CRTME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Dugan. I have heard a few calls come in for them. 

Mr. Eice. Were you there? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What would the conservation be like? 

Mr. Dugan. Someone would maybe call in and ask to speak to 
Rookie. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Dugan. And ask, "What odds would you give me?" Or may- 
be a certain horse. 

Mr. Rice. On a horse. 

Mr. Dugan. Or possibly a ball game, football or baseball game. 

Mr. Rice. What would Rookie say ? 

Mr. Dugan. Sometimes he would give him 1 to 2 odds. I don't 
know too much about that. 

Mr. Rice. Did he pay track odds? 

Mr. Dugan. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. He would set his own odds ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And then what would the other man say? 

Mr. Dugan. I didn't understand that. 

Mr. Rice. Did he make a note of what was done ? 

Mr. Dugan. Rookie would generally tell Leslie what to do. 

Mr. Rice. How did they settle up the telephone bets ? 

Mr. Dugan. That's something I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Did Rookie go out to meet these people or did they come 
in to settle up ? 

Mr. Dugan. They would probably come in. People were coming in 
all the time. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see them from time to time come in there ? 

Mr. Dugan. They were coming in ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Do you remember any of the customers that made bets 
with Rookie? 

Mr. Dugan. No. 

Mr. Rice. Now, tell us what you know about the South Howard 
Drive-in, the Yellow House ? 

Mr. Dugan. Well, the Yellow House was just known to be a 
gambling joint. Selling bolita and stuff like that. The South Howard 
Drive-In 

Mr. Rice. Did the Yellow House have any table games or card 
games ? 

Mr. Dugan. No, sir ; not that part. 

Mr. Rice. Bolita and what? 

Mr. Dugan. Bolita and Cuba. 

Mr. Rice. Were you ever in there ? 

Mr. Dugan. Just going in — stopping by. 

Mr. Rice. While you were a deputy ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see that taking place? 

Mr. Dugan. No, sir. That is just general knowledge. 

Mr. Rice. What about the South Howard Drive-in ? 

Mr. Dugan. Well, the South Howard Drive-In. When I was 

assigned to the Palma Ceia district at night, my partner at the time, 

and I — George Angleman we noticed through the rear window a 

poker game going on, and we called the other car, which consisted 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 257 

of Gordon Viola and Bill Prevatt, and we radioed and asked for 
Brooks, the chief of the vice squad, and we stood by and he didn't 
show up. 
Mr. Rice. He didn't show up % 
Mr. Dugan. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What happened ? 

Mr. Dugan. He never gave us any reason. We got a call and had 
to leave. The following night, the same place, the same thing took 
place. He came over and talked to them a few minutes and said, 
"Well, I fixed it up," and left, and it kept right on and we reported 
several times on the radio and nothing ever happened about it. They 
did put up Venetian blinds so you couldn't see in there very welL 

Mr. Rice. They put up Venetian blinds ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And kept it closed ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, what, if any, instructions did you have with refer- 
ence to places which might operate after hours ? 

Mr. Dugan. We were not to make any arrests for places operating 
after hours. 

Mr. Rice. Who told you that? 

Mr. Dugan. Neil Keen. 

Mr. Rice. He told you that, Did he again tell you that he had 
instructions from someone else? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who was that ? 

Mr. Dugan. The sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for it? 

Mr. Dugan. That was left entirely to the vice squad. 

Mr. Rice. He told you to leave them alone ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. But even if you stumbled upon a place that was operating 
after hours? 

Mr. Dugan. We were to report it to the vice squad. 

Mr. Rice. What were some of the places that you knew to be oper- 
ating after hours during that period? 

Mr. Dugan. The Chatterbox. 

Mr. Rice. The Chatterbox? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes; and Larry Ford's. 

Mr. Rice. What is the name of Larry Ford's? 

Air. Dugan. Larry Ford's Supper Club. 

Mr. Rice. Larry Ford's Supper Club. Anything else ? 

Mr. Dugan. And the Frolic. 

Mr. Rice. Whose place is that? Ficarrota's? And any others? 

Mr. Dugan. The Llamas Club. 

Mr. Rice. How about the Chateau? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes; the Chateau. 

Mr. Rice. Whose place was the Chateau ? 

Mr. Dugan. That was Frank Lumia's, I believe. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know the name of the Chateau now? It was 
Frank Lumia ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know the name of the Chateau now ? 

Mr. Dugan. Club 22. 



258 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Do you know where it is? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You have been away for some time ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You still know that? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. We had a witness here recently who didn't know where 
that was, and he was here all the time. 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, while you were around the sheriff's office, in 
the criminal division, tell us some of the underworld characters who 
would come in and visit with the sheriff. 

Mr. Dugan. Well, at various times, the few that I know person- 
ally — I have seen Red Italiano come in. 

Mr. Rice. You have seen Red Italiano come in ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. In the inner office ? 

Mr. Dugan. He went back in the back office, which was Neil Keen's 
office. And others who would come in would be pointed out to me by 
other deputies. Jimmy Velasco was pointed out to me and Primo 
Lazzara. 

Mr. Rice. Velasco came in? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who else came in ? 

Mr. Dugan. Well, there were several of them, but most of them were 
just pointed out to me by other deputies. 

Mr. Rice. But who was pointed out to you by other deputies ? 

Mr. Dugan. Primo Lazzara. 

Mr. Rice. Lazzara? Who else? 

Mr. Dugan. Jimmy Velasco. 

Mr. Rice. Anyone else ? How about Friscia ? 

Mr. Dugan. No sir. 

Mr. Rice. Anyone else ? Angel Daniels ? 

Mr Dugan. I wouldn't know him. 

Mr. Rice. Trafficante? 

Mr. Dugan. No sir. 

Mr. Rice. What do you know about the Mafia ? 

Mr. Dugan. Nothing. 

Mr. Rice. Had you ever heard of it? 

Mr. Dugan. I had heard of it. 

Mr. Rice. Do you believe that there is such a thing, from your ex- 
perience as a police officer ? 

Mr. Dugan. From reading the newspapers, I would say there is? 

Mr. Rice. From your experience as a policeman ? 

Mr. Dugan. The Mafia? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Dugan. No sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who do you think is responsible? Have you seen the 
chart here of these killings here in Tampa in the last few years with 
no arrests? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any idea who is responsible for that, whether 
that is local men or out of State men ? 

Mr. Dugan. I would say it would be a syndicate. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 259 

Mr Rice. You would say it would be a syndicate? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes; a syndicate operating here lnlampa. 

Mr. Rice. Right here in Tampa? 

Mr! Rice A1 Do you have any idea that they might import the killer 
from out of the State ? 

Mr. Dugan. It is possible. m 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any information on that « 

Mr. Dugan. No, sir. , , . ff 

Mr Rice. During your various investigations as a deputy sheriff, 
did you ever have occasion to discuss these killings with local people, 

Clt Mr n DuGAN. Yes, sir. I never investigated a murder in my life. 

Mr. Rice. But' while you were a deputy sheriff, you talked to various 
citizens about these murders, didn't you ? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir; it would be discussed. ,„:...* n lo 

Mr Rice. Did you get any information about whether the people 
were afraid to talk, whether there was a fear among the citizens* 

Mr. Dugan. Yes ; people are afraid to talk. 

Mr. Rice. Why is that? 

Mr. Dugan. Retaliation. 

Mr. Rice. Retaliation? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes. . , . . « 

Mr Rice. By the perpetrators of the crimes and their associates? 

Mr! Dugan. I would say by the associates of the perpetrators ot the 

^r Rice Would you sav it was a fair statement that you had an 
impression that the' protection afforded by local law enforcement 
wasn't adequate to overcome that fear? 

Mr. Dugan. Yes, sir ; I suppose that might be it. 

Senator Hunt. Is Luis Sardegna in the room? 

Mr Rice Luis Sardegna is under subpena and has not been excused. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Marshal, this witness is under subpena, which 
has not been listed. Will you make what effort you can to ascertain 
whether or not he is in the hall or whether he is in the courtroom* 

Mr. Rice. Will you ascertain if Sheriff Culbreath has returned* 

The Marshal. He has not returned. . 

Senator Hunt. The hearing will stand in recess approximately 

5 minutes. , , . _ , . , , , 

Senator Hunt. Will Judge Tillman be kind enough again to take 

the witness stand, please ? 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF HON. HENRY C. TILLMAN, JUDGE, 
CIRCUIT COURT, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLA. 

Senator Hunt. Judge Tillman. I am just about to make a closing 
statement. It may be that the sheriff will be questioned briefly fol- 
lowing the statement and following any comments that you may care 
to make following the statement that I am going to read. 

Before closing the hearings of our committee here m Tampa, I want 
to acknowledge our gratitude to Judge Barker for the use of this court 
room I also want to thank Mr. Crumbley, the marshal, and I want 
to thank his deputy, Mr. Price, for their continued help to our staff 



260 ORGANIZED CRIME IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

and during the hearings, in working this hearing up to the time of 
the starting of our evidence. I want to also thank Mr. Williams, who 
is custodian of the building, for his very kind assistance in more than 
one way. 

Now, I wish also to add our appreciation for the assistance given 
our staff by Mr. Daniel P. Sullivan, executive director of the Crime 
Commission of greater Miami, who has spent considerable time and 
energy in cooperating with the committee staff in the preparation of 
this hearing. 

I also want to thank the members of the press and the radio. Many 
of them have come from great distances. I want to thank them not 
just for their cooperation in this hearing, but for their continuing 
cooperation in publicizing these hearings, wherever they have been 
held. Lawmaking bodies can pass legislation intended" to make it 
difficult, if not impossible, for criminals to operate, but the enforce- 
ment of such laws will depend upon an angry, an aroused, and a 
determined public. By disseminating as widely as possible the facts 
developed at these hearings, we believe that the press and the radio 
are performing a most commendable public service, one that goes 
hand in hand with the purpose behind the work of this committee, 
which is to curb the menace of crime. 

I want to say this, too : Our thanks go out to the citizens of Tampa 
for their hospitality. 

May I say, in passing, that, believe me, this is not a pleasant job. 
It is disillusioning ; it is disheartening to come into a great American 
city like Tampa and to hear unfolded a story of corruption of law 
enforcement such as we have heard yesterday and today in this room. 

I think I should mention — and I did last evening — that I was par- 
ticularly impressed with the testimony of Lieutenant Marvin, certainly 
a high-type officer, who, according to'his testimony, was fired from the 
police force because he would not protect certain racketeers and was 
directed to go easy on them. For only by lifting the lid and letting 
some light and air into this seamy and this sordid mess will the situa- 
tion ever be corrected. It is painful, too, I want you to know, to real- 
ize that these things would probably go on without any corrective 
action unless some outside group came here with enough authority 
and, perhaps, energy, to tear away the curtain, if we have lifted it 
only slightly. However, the citizens of Tampa should now have some 
inkling if only a slight one, of what goes on in the underworld, and 
perhaps, maybe, I should say in the upper world of this city. 

We shall, of course, make adequate reference to the situation in our 
report to the Senate, but, in the last analysis, correction of the situa- 
tion must start right here at home. Towards that end, the committee 
will make available to a properly constituted local investigative 
body all of our files containing our investigative reports and a good 
bit of information which we have, which time yesterday and today 
would not permit us to bring forward in this hearing. We have under 
subpena a number of witnesses who cannot be heard at this time. The 
subpenas will not be lifted; they will continue in effect, and it is pos- 
sible that those witnesses may be called to testify at some other point, 
other than Tampa. 

Now, I cannot adjourn these hearings without expressing the com- 
mittee's appreciation to those citizens of Tampa who have assisted the 
staff in its difficult task. I want especially to mention in this list the 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 261 

officers and committee members of the Tampa Junior Chamber of Com- 
merce and Mr. P. Joseph Rodriges, if I have the pronounciation cor- 
rect, and say to you all that the members of the Junior Chamber of 
Commerce have been most helpful. 

I am going to let the record also show our deep appreciation of the 
valuable contributions made by Miss Mary Ellen Sharpe and Miss 
Bryan Crowder, both residents of Tampa, who have worked exceed- 
ingly hard at our statf headquarters. I would like for both of these 
ladies to know that we are grateful for the long hours they have put 
in, and that they have aided materially in a worthwhile cause. 

Finally, I should like to say — and t am sure you will agree with 
me — that the chairman of this committee is very grateful for the effi- 
cient and fine manner in which the committee stall' has handled this 
hearing and have gotten the evidence together. I think, considering 
the fact that the time was short, the fact that they have been very busy 
in other cities up until just recently, and have not had the proper time 
to prepare all of the witnesses or all of the material, that they have 
done, certainly, a most satisfactory and complete job. 

Now, Judge Tillman was kind enough to appear before the com- 
mittee at the start of our hearings. In view of the statement that I 
have just made, in view of what you have heard over the radio, in 
view of, perhaps, some testimony you have heard this afternoon here 
in the courtroom, as a member of the court, and a member in whom 
we have great confidence, I am wondering if you have any comments 
to make with reference to, if I may say it, where do we go from here? 

Judge Tillman. Senator, all I can tell you is that I understand that 
you are going to turn what you have over to the proper body and, as 
I understand it, it will come through some officer of the court. If it 
is turned over to me as an officer of the court, I assure you that it will 
go to the grand jury and that I will recharge the grand jury, as I have 
already charged them, that one of their greatest duties is to investigate 
the conduct of their officials. Now, where it goes from there will 
depend on the grand juries. 

Senator Hunt. Judge, may I ask a question : Will it be within the 
purport of your judicial duties to request the Governor to appoint a 
special investigator to handle the matters that we have developed? 

Judge Tillman. Now, I haven't heard the testimony, but if that 
testimony shows that our duly elected officials are involved, I most 
assuredly would ask the Governor to appoint a special State's attorney 
to come in here and take charge of this situation. I would outline to 
him what I am doing it on. 

Senator Hunt. For certain reasons, Judge, which I am sure you 
will understand, some evidence that we have was not disclosed at this 
public hearing. It will be made available to the law-enforcement offi- 
cers, including yourself, when we transmit to you the written record. 

And again, Judge, thanks for your kind cooperation. We appre- 
ciate it. 

(Judge Tillman left the witness stand.) 

Senator Hunt. One additional statement: We have received tele- 
phonic reports from our staff that they find in the sheriff's safe, at his 
home, $1,805 in cash. 



262 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

I n closing, too, I should like it publicly known that a transcript of all 
the testimony taken by this committee yesterday and today will be 
forwarded to the Governor of the State of Florida. 

This, then, brings to an adjournment the meeting of the Special 
Senate Crime Investigating Committee of the United States Senate, 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 25 p. m., Saturday, December 30, 1950, the hear* 
ing was adjourned.) 



INVESTIGATION OF OKGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee to Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met, pursuant to call of the chairman, at 10 : 05 a. m., 
in room 104-B, Senate Office Building, Senator Charles W. Tobey 
presiding. 

Present : Senators Kef auver (chairman) , Hunt, and Tobey. 

Also present: Downey Rice, George S. Robinson, and John L. 
Burling, associate counsel; and Joseph L. Nellis, assistant counsel. 

Senator Tobey. The committee will come to order. 

(The testimony of John W. Brookfield, trial attorney, Federal 
Trade Commission ; Charles P. O'Neil, Chicago, 111. ; and Leo Lichten- 
stein, president and treasurer, Harlich Corp., Chicago, 111., which was 
heard by the committee at this time, is included in pt. 12 of the hear- 
ings of the committee. ) 

The Chairman. I think I should also clarify one matter in connec- 
tion with our Florida witnesses before we proceed with the next part 
of our hearing, and that is that when the committee, under the able 
acting chairmanship of Senator Hunt, was in Tampa, after the com- 
mittee left Tampa, certain witnesses, including Mr. Farrior and Mr. 
Eddings, and, I believe, the present sheriff and, perhaps, the mayor, 
felt their names had been brought out in the hearing, and that they had 
not been called upon to testify, although they were there and, of course, 
Senator Hunt would have been glad to have had them testify ; but, 
in any event, it is the intention always of this committee to give 
everyone an opportunity to be heard and to present their side in the 
matter very fully, and* we want to give them full opportunity; so 
announcement was made immediately afterward that they would 
either be heard in Florida or in Washington or they could submit 
statements. 

We have invited them to come to Washington to be here today. 
They have been subpenaed. and they were notified to appear. 

On the day before yesterday, when the chairman was in the hearing 
in Xew York, a message came from Mr. Farrior to the effect that 
he had some cases set for trial, and was very busily preparing a most 
important case for a hearing in Tallahassee on the 21st. 

I directed that if he found it impossible to be here at that time, 
he could submit a statement; and that if any matters were brought 
up in the statement that we wanted to question any further about or 
any matters that were not fully covered, he should be available to 

263 



264 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

come up, if it was impossible either today or tomorrow, immediately 
after the 21st, and that coming up the day after the 21st, if he had 
these cases set for trial and was busily preparing another case, would 
be satisfactory for me. 

There was some lack of clear liaison with the staff committee here 
in Washington, so that Mr. Farrior has submitted his statement which, 
however, requires that some matters not in the statement be gone 
into, and also some parts of the statement we will have to question 
him about then, so Mr. Farrior is unable to come tomorrow, which, I 
think is because of the case, because of the commitment that I made, 
he will be asked to come up the day after the 21st, on the 22d. 

Any inference in the press that he was trying to avoid coming 
up is not correct, because what happened was on my responsibility 
and not because of any obstinacy on his part about coming. 

I regret, perhaps, that both he and the sheriff will not be here, 
although we have not heard from the sheriff. We understood that 
he was sick, but he may be here tomorrow. But all of the witnesses 
in Tampa who did not have an opportunity — I mean who feel that 
they were not fully heard down there — will have a chance to come 
up here and be heard. 

Is there any matter that you, Mr. Rice, wanted to clear up in con- 
nection with Tampa, with Mr. Farrior and others ? 

Mr. Rice. No. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. After communicating with Mr. Farrior this after- 
noon, or getting in touch with him, if he cannot be here tomorrow, why, 
it is likely that we will ask the sheriff and any other witnesses in 
Tampa to come up at the same time all on the same day, which will 
be the 22d. 

Mr. Bowers, will you stand, please? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this com- 
mittee will be the whole truth, so help you God % 

Mr. Bowers. I do. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bowers, you have handed the chairman a letter 
from E. T. Fitzpatrick of Miami Beach, Fla., a long letter, which says 
you have been suffering from amoebic dysentery and other 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE L. BOWERS, MIAMI, FLA. 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

The Chairman. What is the purpose of this letter, Mr. Bowers ? 

Mr. Bowers. I wanted to show you where you once called me in 
Tampa and I tried to get in touch with you people over there, and I 
wanted to show you that I was not dodging you. 

The Chairman. AVere you in the hospital at the time we were 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I was in the hospital, I think — I left the hospital 
on the Thursday or Friday, I am not sure which, and I tried to get 
in touch with you people at the hotel in Tampa, and you people weren't 
there ; they said you weren't there. 

The Chairman. You were subpenaed to come to Tampa; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. And I was being treated at the time in 
the hospital, but I have been in bed practically ever since I got out of 
the hospital. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 2C5 

The Chairman. "Well, you have a letter here from several doctors 
saying that you 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

The Chairman. You have a letter here from Dr. Louis Chodoff. 

Mr. Bowers. Chodoff. 

The Chairman. 705 Pine Street, Philadelphia. 

Mr. Bowers. He treated me for deposits of the lung. I was caught 
in a fire in New York City in the Shelton Hotel. 

The Chairman. That is dated November 29, 1950. 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

The Chairman. And then a letter from a Dr. Edward Dessen in 
Philadelphia. 

Mr. Bowers. Davitz, you mean. Oh, that is something — it showed 
the X-rays, what was wrong in the X-rays. 

The Chairman. You also handed the chairman a notice that you 
have been indicted November 6, 1950. 

Mr. BowrRs. In Miami. 

The Chairman. In Dade County, Fla., for operating a gambling 
house ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Bowers. "Well, that is what this says there ; I don't plead guilty 
to that. 

The Chairman. That case is now pending; the matter is now 
pending? 

Mr. Bower?. That is right. 

The Chairman. All right. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. Mr. Rice, will you question Mr. Bowers? 

Mr. Rice. Where are you living now, Mr. Bowers ? 

Mr. Bowers. 1000 North Venetian Way, Miami. 

Mr. Rice. Were you living at that address in July of this year ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, in July of this year, Mr. Bowers, a deputy 
marshal made an attempt to serve you with a committee subpena at 
that address, and was unable to find you. 

The Chairman. July of last year. 

Mr. Rice. Julv of 1950 ? Where were you ? 

Mr. Bowers. I was in and cut of Miami. I mean I stayed at my 
house when I was in Miami, and when I was not in Miami I stayed 
in the Waldorf-Astoria in New York City. 

Mr. Rice. Can you account for someone there telling the deputy 
marshal that you were at the Mayo Clinic ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, there was a note on my — nobody told the deputy 
marshal. There was a note left on my door, which I had left, the 
first time I went away, stating I was on the way, but it happened I 
could not get there, on account of one thing was I was in a taxicab 
accident, and then I snw you in Philadelphia, and then I was in that 
fire in New York, and I have been in bed practically ever since. 

Mr. Rice. So that you never did get to Mayo despite the fact that 
you 

Mr. Bowers. Not yet, but I am on the way. 

Mr. Rice. Then, subsequently you were served with a subpena in 
Philadelphia, at which time we had a conversation ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 



266 ORGANIZED C'RTME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. And then you were notified on or about December 18 to 
appear in Tampa on the 29th of December 1050. What happened 
then ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I was in the hospital then, and then when I got 
out of the hospital 

Mr. Rice. You were in the hospital then ? 

Mr. Bowers. When you people got to Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. I am afraid not, sir. We notified you on the 18th ; ac- 
cording to our records you went to the hospital on the 25th of 
December. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I did not get the notice ; I was supposed to ap- 
pear on the 18th. 

Mr. Rice. You were supposed to appear on the 20th. 

Mr. Bowers. The 20th or the 25th. 

Mr. Rice. The 20th. You went to the hospital on the 25th. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I went out of the hospital the day before I was 
supposed to appear, that is, the day Senator Hunt called my name, 
I read that in the paper. I was out of the hospital, but in my home 
in bed under the same doctor's care. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

So that after you got the notice and before you appeared, you. 
went into the hospital and came out before the hearing; did you not? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, the doctor made me go to the hospital ; I didn't 
have anything to do with it. I had a high temperature. 

Mr. Rice. What doctor was it that made you go ? 

Mr. Bowers. Dr. Fitzpatrick. 

Mr. Rice. What is his name? 

Mr. Bowers. Fitzpatrick, 541 Lincoln Road. 

Mr. Rice. Where is he located ? Are you sure of that ? 

Mr. Bowers. He has got a letter right there. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, where were you born ? 

Mr. Bowers. Nashville, Tenn. 

Mr. Rice. What year? 

Mr. Bowers. 1004. 

Mr. Rice. How long did you live in Tennessee ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I lived in Tennessee practically up until I had 
been to Florida for the first time. I left for Florida in 1026. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, but you went to Chicago before that, did you not? 

Mr. Boavers. No, positively not. 

Mr. Rice. You went to Forida the first time when ? 

Mr. Bowers. 1026. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

Then, did you go to Chicago after that? 

Mr. Bowers. I was in Chicago, yes, sir, after that several times. 

Mr. Rice. When did you first go to Chicago? 

Mr. Bowers. I think my first trip to Chicago was in 1027. 

Mr. Rice. 1027? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. What business did you engage in in Chicago? 

Mr. Bowers. Mr. Rice, I am indicted in Miami now on account of 
gambling, and I stand on my constitutional rights. I won't answer 
any questions that will tend to incriminate myself. 

Mr. Rice. Sir? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 267 

The Chairman. The question was what business did you engage in 
in Chicago? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, that is the reason I refuse to answer that ques- 
tion, Your Honor. 

The Chairman. Well, the Chair directs you to answer that. 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

The Chairman. I say I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Bowers. I can't answer that question. 

The Chairman. You refuse to answer it? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir; I stand on my constitutional rights. 

Mr. RiCEi Now, then, sir, this offense that you have in mind, is that 
a State offense or is that a Federal offense ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is a State offense. There is no Federal laws 
against gambling that I know of. 

Mr. Rice. I see. So that you are claiming a privilege on a State 
offense, is that correct ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir; that will tend to incriminate me down there 
in the case. 

Mr. Rice. Now, sir, what connection would what you were doing 
in 1927 in Chicago have, or what connection is there with the matter 
that you are now under indictment for? Is there any connection be- 
tween those two things ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that question. I stand on my con- 
stitutional rights. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever heard of the statute of limitations? 

Mr. Bowers. I never did. If you tell it to me, then it might clear 
some things. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

Were you ever arrested in Chicago ? 

Mr. Bowers. I stated to you once I was for a nonpayment of 
alimony 

Mr. Rice. When was that? 

Mr. Bowers. That was in the early thirties, but I have gone back 
to Nashville, back to Florida, and back to Chicago ; in fact, I used to 
go to Chicago in the summertime and either back to Nashville or back 
to Florida in the wintertime. 

Mr. Rice. All right. What were you doing in Florida? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. What were you doing in Florida, what business? 

Mr. Bowers. That reverts back to the same thing. I can't answer 
that. 

Mr. Rice. You cannot tell what you were doing in 1930? 

Mr. Bowers. 1930? If you will explain that statute of limitations 
we might get this thing — I don't want to make myself in the State of 
Florida 

Mr. Rice. Suppose I tell you it was back during the time of prohibi- 
tion. What were you doing during prohibition? 

Mr. Bowers. Oh, I had gotten out of — if you are trying to say the 
whisky business. 

Mr. Rice. You had gone out of that ? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir ? 

Mr. Rice. You say you had got out that business ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 



268 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. When were you in the business? 

Mr. Bowers. In the early twenties. 

Mr. Rice. In the early twenties? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Was that after prohibition? 

Mr. Bowers. It was after I got out of the Marine Corps — no, that 
was during prohibition. 

Mr. Rice. Would you say you were in the whisky business during 
1924? 

Mr. Bowers. Somewhere along there, I couldn't swear. 

Mr. Rice. Was that a legal business? 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir; it was not legal. I never got convicted. 

Mr. Rice. You never got convicted ? 

Mr. Bowers. I was arrested. 

Mr. Rice. How many times were you arrested in the whisky 
business? 

Mr. Bowers. It is hard to say. 

Mr. Rice. About how many ? 

Mr. Bowers. More times than } 7 ou got fingers and toes. 

Mr. Rice. Well, I have got 20 of those, I think. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, we will put on 20, then, I don't know. I have 
been arrested — they come in, search your place, and find no whisky, 
and they arrest you. 

Mr. Rice. And you paid fines every time? 

Mr. Bowers. I have never been convicted of whisky. 

Mr. Rice. You paid fines, but you never went to jail? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. On this arrest in Chicago did you go to jail? 

Mr. Bowers. I went to jail on a warrant for nonpayment of alimony. 

Mr. Rice. When were you arrested next after the Chicago time? 

Mr. Bowers. I was arrested in Miami during 1949 or the first of 
1950, I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. How about the arrest in Petoskey, Mich. ? 

The Chairman. 1949 was that, or 1939? 

Mr. Bowers. 1949. 

The Chairman. For what? 

Mr. Bowers. I was arrested in the Little Palm Club, but I will 
stand on my constitutional rights, I won't answer that, why I was 
arrested. 

Mr. Rice. I do not understand your constitutional rights on a matter 
that is a matter of public record. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I was not found guilty. They come in and 
arrested me for running a gambling house, and there was nothing in 
there, and nobody was gambling. 

Mr. Rice. How about the arrest in Petoskey, Mich. ? 

Mr. Bowers. I was arrested there, and I forget the year, I think it 
was 1939. 

Mr. R'CE. Yes. What was that for? 

Mr. Bowers. Same thing. 

Mr. Rice. What is that? 

Mr. Bowers. I wasn't even in the room, and I was arrested. 

Mr. Rice. In what room ? 

Mr. Bowep^. Charged me with gambling. 

Mr Rice. What room? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE- 269 

Mr. Bowers. In the elubroom. 
Mr. Rice. What club? 
Mr. Bowers. I was in the restaurant. 
Mr. Rice. What club? 
Mr. Bowers. Ramona Club. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, as a result of the arrest in the Ramona in 
Petoskey, Mich., what happened, did you pay a fine? 
Mr. Bowers. I paid a fine. 
Mr. Rice. Did you do any time ? 
Mr. Bowers. No ; wasn't even guilty. 
Mr. Rice. Did you stand trial or did you plead guilty? 
Mr. Bowers. Just walked up and got fined, didn't say anything. 
Mr. Rice. You did not say anything ? 
Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. You did not say anything? You did not know about 
your constitutional rights at that time, did you? 
Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Would it be fair to say that throughout your life you have 
engaged in table gambling operations? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that on the ground of my Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. Rice. Would it be fair to say that up until 1940 you had en- 
gaged in, for the most part, table games? 

Mr. Bowers. I have had bars, restaurants, laundry — I just sold a 
laundry and dry-cleaning plant. 

Mr. Rice. Prior to 1940, before 1940? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I have worked around ; I have jerked sodas. I 
did everything when I was a kid. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Now, between 1930 and 1940 did yo?i jerk any 
sodas? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do between 1930 and 1940? 
Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Well, would it be fair to say that you engaged in gambling 
enterprises. 

Mr. Bowers. It would not be fair to me to convict myself in Florida 
by saying something up here. 

Mr. Rice. You take the position that something you did in 1930 
would convict you in Florida this year? 
Mr. Bowers. It might. 
Mr. Rice. It might? 
Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, sir, when did you become interested in the Little 
Palm Restaurant in Florida? 
Mr. Bowers. In 1942. 

Mr. Rice. How did you become interested in that ? 
Mr. Bowers. I bought in the property. 
Mr. Rice. You bought into the property ? 
Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Rice. From whom did you buy it? 
Mr. Bowers. Arthur Childers. 

Mr. Rice. Arthur Childers ? Did you buy into it alone or did you 
have partners? 

6S958— 51— pt. la 18 



270 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Bowers. Well, my first payment was $5,000. I paid them then 
in 1942. That was 10 percent of the property. 

Mr. Rice. Ten percent of the property ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Are you talking about the land and building or 

Mr. Bowers. Land, building. 

Mr. Rice. And the game ? 

Mr. Bowers. We didn't have no game. 

Mr. Rice. No game in the Little Palm? 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And you bought 10 percent then for $5,000 ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Is that correct ? Where did you get the $5,000 ? 

Mr. Bowers. I had earned it. 

Mi-. Rice. What doing? 

Mr. Bowers. Now, I paid income taxes on it. You got the papers ; 
you can look at it. 

Mr. Rice. My question is what did you earn the money doing? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. On what ground ? 

Mr. Bowers. My Constitution won't let me answer it. I won't 
answer nothing that will indict me in the State of Florida. 

Mr. Rice. What does the Constitution tell you ? 

Mr. Bowers. It tells me I don't have to convict myself. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bowers, you understand you are being directed 
to answer these questions. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I still have to stand on my constitutional right. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. All right. You had 10 percent of the Little Palm in 
1942 for $5,000, 10 percent. Who had the other 90 percent? 

Mr. Bowers. Arthur Childers had some and Dick Sharpe had some. 
How much they had, I don't know, but I have records that I did not 
bring with me of that transaction. 

Mr. Rice. You do not know how much your partners had? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. You do not know how much your partners had ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I am guessing now — I can't put it down to 
swear it. 

Mr. Rice. Let us guess. 

Mr. Bowers. I think Childers had 70 percent and Dick Sharpe had 
10. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Where are they now ? 

Mr. Bowers. They are there. 

Mr. Rice. They are still there at the Little Palm. Do you still 
have an interest in the Little Palm ? 

Mr. Bowers. I still have an interest in the property alone. I have 
not been in the place for 2 years, because I just did not want to go 
in it. 

Mr. Rice. I understand. 

Mr. Bowers. I still own part of the property. 

Mr. Rice. What part do you own now ? 

Mr. Bowers. I own 20 percent now. 

Mr. Rice. Which part is that ? 



ORGANIZE'D C'RTME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 271 

Mr. Bowers. The building and land. 

Mr. Rice. Twenty percent of the building ? 

Mr. Bowers. The land. 

Mr. Rice. The land and building? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. How did you acquire the extra 10 percent '. 

Mr. Bowers. I bought it in later years. 

Mr. Rice. What is in there besides the land and building that you 
do not have an interest in? 

Mr. Bowers. There is a bar and restaurant. 

Mr. Rice. You do not have an interest in the bar and restaurant? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Rice. Who has that? 

Mr. Bowers. I have 20 percent. 

Mr. Rice. Of the bar and restaurant ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. What is it? You just said you had 20 percent of the 
laud. 

Mr. Boavers. Well, the land and building, whatever goes on in there, 
naturally I am in with it. but 

Mr. Rice. Whatever goes on there you are in with it? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. Whatever goes on there you are in with it? 

Mr. Bowers. You are right. 

Mr Rice. All right, Have you ever heard of a man named Joe 
Stalins, Col. Joe Stalins? 

Mr. Bowers. Joe Stalins? T think I have met him. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any transactions with him? 

Mr. Bowers. Not that I can recall ; no, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What do you recall about him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't recall anything about him, but he was a major 
or a colonel or something in the Army, and used to come in the Little 
Palm Club. 

Mr. Rice. Used to come in there as a customer? 

Mr. Boavers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Did he have any interest in the Little Palm? 

Mr. Bowers. None whatever. 

Mr. Rice. Plow about the Sunny Isles? 

Mr. Bowers. I could not swear to that. 

Mr. Rice. Well, you have an interest in the Sunny Isles, don't you ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer on the ground it might incriminate 
myself. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

How about Stalins, does he have an interest there ? 

Mr. Bowers. That I could not say. 

Mr. Rice. Well, wasn't he formerly the owner of the Sunny Isles? 

Mr. Bowers. That I could not tell you; I would not know. 

Mr. Rice. From whom did you acquire your interest in the Sunny 
Isles? " 

Mr. Bowers. T refuse to answer that. 

Mr. RrcE. Didn't you acquire it from Stalins? 

Mr. Bowers. I did not. 

Mr. Rice. You know from whom you didn't buy it but you do not 
know from whom you did ? 



272 ORGANIZE© CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Kice. How about Ike Miller? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Now, in the Little Palm, does Ace Deuce Solomon have 
an interest in that? 

Mr. Bowers. He does, but Childers says he doesn't. 

Mr. Rice. He does, but Childers says he doesn't? 

Mr. Bowers. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. How do you account for that? 

Mr. Bowers. I have been telling you the way the problem 

Mr. Rice. What did you say ? 

Mr. Bowers. I say it is none of my business. All I am looking out 
after is George. 

Mr. Rice. You are looking out for George, and George's 20 percent? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. And you do not care who your partners are, is that right? 

Mr. Bowers. That is exactly correct. 

Mr. Rice. It does not make any difference? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I would not say that, no. It would make a dif- 
ference. I would not be in partners with somebody that I did not 

Mr. Rice. Where did Solomon come from? 

Mr. Bowers- I don't know; I think he come from New York- 
guessing. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever see him in New York? 

Mr. Bowers. Never in my life. 

Mr. Rice. What business was he in in New York ? 

Mr. Bowers. He come to — I first met him he was driving a taxicab 
in the twenties in Miami. 

Mr. Rice- Driving a cab? What business was he in in New York? 

Mr. Bowers. That I don't know. I don't know — I said I think he 
is from New York. 

Mr- Rice. Why do they call him Ace Deuce ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is what everybody calls him. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, it is just a nickname, just like they call me a 
lot of things that is not so either. 

Mr. Rice. What are some of the things they call you ? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. What are some of the things they call you ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I have been called most everything, a gentle- 
man sometimes. 

Mr. Rice. Did they ever call you George Rankin ? 

Mr. Bowers. No ; I never went under that name. 

Mr. Rice. Never went under that name ? 

Mr. Bowers. Carter either. 

Mr. Rice. Never went under what ? 

Mr- Bowers. George Carter, either. 

Mr. Rice. George Carter, either? 

Mr. Bowers. Right- 
Mr. Rice. Who else is in the Little Palm beside Ace Deuce? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, Dick Evans, he is dead. 

Mr. Rice. Who is Louise Evans? 

Mr. Bowers. Louise Evans — the property is in litigation now. I 
don't understand what it is all about. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 273 

Mr. Rice. She is the survivor of Dick Evans? 

Mr. Bowers. Childers claims she does not own it, but she has paid 
the Government so much inheritance taxes, and it is all in the courts. 
I don't have anything, except canceled checks that I paid ; that is the 
only proof I got that I own part of the building. 

Mr. Eice. Now, in the Sunny Isles, Julie Levitt, does he have an 
interest in there ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Eice. How about Charlie 

The Chairman. If you know, I do not see how that has anything 
to do with you. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I don't want 

The Chairman. You are asked whether Julie Levitt has an interest 
in that, and you said you refused to answer. 

Mr. Bowers. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, you are directed to answer that, Mr. Bowers. 

Mr. Bowers. I can stand on my constitutional rights ; I have been 
told I could. 

The Chairman. All right. But this is about somebody else, not 

about yourself. . . 

Mr. Bowers. Well, that is going to throw me in right back where 

we started. 

The Chairman. Anyway, you refuse to answer? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't want to answer anything, Mr. Kef auver, that 
will tend to incriminate me with that indictment, or with anybody else 
that is indicted. 

The Chairman. The point is— I think the point we should tell you 
about, Mr. Bowers, is 

Mr. Bowers. I think Julie Levitt was a part owner; I am not sure. 

The Chairman (continuing). Under the Supreme Court cases, as 
they now stand, you can claim your constitutional right under the fifth 
amendment against not being required to answer any question that 
might incriminate you of a Federal statute, but that does not apply 
to a State law. That is, the mere fact that you might be afraid that 
it would involve you with some State law 

Mr. Bowers. That is what I am afraid of. 

The Chairman (continuing). Will not give you the right to refuse 
to answer. 

Mr. Bowers. That is the reason I am refusing to answer. 

The Chairman. I just wanted to explain that matter to you. 

You are a man of some substance and means. Do you have an at- 
torney, Mr. Bowers? 

Mr. Bowers. Not with me; no. 

The Chairman. Have you been talking with your attorney ? 

Mr. Bowers. I have not talked with him since I left Philadelphia. 

The Chairman. Is he in Philadelphia, your attorney? 

Mr. Bowers. Myron Jacoby ; yes, sir. He was— he represented me 
over there once, and I talked to Mr. Rice and Mr. Klein before. 

The Chairman. He was with you up there ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

The Chairman. But he has advised you about matters, has he ? 

Mr. Bowers. No; he didn't advise me anything. I just don't want 
to go to all that expense. 

The Chairman. You want an attorney down here today ? 



274 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Bowers. Sir ? 

The Chairman. Do you want to get an attorney to be here with 
you today ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't see why I need an attorney. If you want to 
lock me up, go ahead. 

The Chairman. We just want to give you an opportunity to get 
one. 

Mr. Bowers. No ; I don't need any. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. Did your attorney explain to you what your constitu- 
tional rights were? 

Mr. Bowers. He told me I did not have to answer any questions that 
I thought would incriminate me. 

Mr. Rice. Did he tell you what contempt was ? 

The Chairman. Let us get on. 

Mr. Bowers. Contempt ? I don't know what contempt is. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, was Charlie Freedman a partner in the 

Mr. Bowers. That reverts back, Mr. Rice, to the same thing, Julie 
Levitt, it is all the same thing, and I am not going to put myself in 
there and get indicted, get re-indicted, in Miami on account of answer- 
ing questions up here. 

Mr. Rice. So you figure you can be indicted on what Charlie Freed' 
man did? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. I don't know what I have been indicted 
on down there. I don't know why I was indicted. We didn't get 
arrested. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know whether or not Charlie Freedman has an 
interest in the Sunny Isles ? 

Mr. Bowers. I just refuse to answer that question about my partners 
in the Sunny Isles. 

Mr. Rice. How about Harold Salvey ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is the same thing. 

Mr. Rice. Who keeps the books for the Sunny Isles ? 

Mr. Bowers. I explained the books were kept by Art somebody — 
he got killed. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. Now, the books, the county solicitor has got the books, 
and we can't get them ; we can't get them to pay our income taxes. 

Mr. Rice. You are talking about Art Davis, the fellow killed in an 
automobile accident ? 

Mr. Bowers. Now, the books are kept by Ruth something. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, in his office : and then they were turned over to Leo 
Levitt, were they not ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know whether that is the name or not. I have 
not been out of the house except maybe for short walks in 2y 2 , 3 
months. 

Mr. Rice. Well now, did I understand you to say that you just 
leave the house for short walks ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. And that is all you have done for how long? 

Mr. Bowers. Two and a half or three months. I have been mostly 
in bed. 

Mr. Rice. Leo Levitt, you say, keeps the books for 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 275 

Mr. Bowers. I did not say Leo Levitt — Sunny Isles; no, there is 
a c. p. a., I can't think of his name. 

Mr. Rice. Costa. 

Mr. Bowers. Costa kept the books for the Little Palm Club years 
ago. 

Mr. Rice. Who kept them for the Sunny Isles? 

Mr. Bowers. He never did, so far as I know. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you have an interest in the Sunny Isles. How 
do you check up on your interest ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer it. I am going to check as soon 
as I can check the books. They won't turn the books loose. 

Mr. Rice. Who won't turn them? 

Mr. Bowers. The county solicitor, they got the books. 

Mr. Rice. Where did they get them from? 

Mr. Bowers. They raided some office and got them, the book- 
keeper 

Mr. Rice. Do you know what office that was ? 

Mr. Bowers. I was not there at the time. 

Mr. Rice. Who do you look to for your share of the proceeds? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, the money is intact; I will get it, it is there. 

Mr. Rice. Who are you going to see about it ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know ; I will have to see somebody when I get 
back. I don't know who has got the money. I couldn't answer if I 
were to be shot. 

Mr. Rice. You do not know who you are going to see? 

Mr. Bowers. I told you I don't know — I can't think of his name. 

The Chairman. It is apparent, Mr. Bowers, that you are trying 
to keep from being indicted. If you were going to get some money, 
Mr. Bowers, you would know his name. 

Mr. Bowers. You will have it on my income tax. 

The Chairman. Either answer the questions or refuse to answer 
them. 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

The Chairman. Let us not be evasive ; let us get it settled one way 
or another, but you know who you will get in touch with. 

Mr. Bowers. I am going to see. 

The Chairman. I say, do you know the person you would get in 
touch with to get your money \ 

Mr. Bowers. I have got to find out what the fellow's name is — the 
bookkeeper ; he has got the mone.y. All I got down is what I put in it I 

The Chairman* All right. Proceed, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Is it not true that the same bookkeeper who keeps those 
books, keeps them for the S. & G. Syndicate ? 

Mr. Bowers. I have no part of the S. & G. Syndicate ; I wouldn't 
know. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever heard of them? 

Mr. Bowers. Naturally, I read the papers. 

Mr. Rice. Who is in the S. & G. Syndicate ? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. Who is in the S. & G. Syndicate ? 

Mr. Bowers. You mean if what the newspapers say 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

The Chairman. If that is all you know, don't say. 

Mr. Bowers. O. K. 



276 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Rice. Well, on the checks that were drawn by the Sunny Isles, 
doesn't Leo Levitt countersign the checks? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

The Chairman. Well, you are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to on my constitutional rights. 

Mr. Rice. Now, sir, how long have you been living at 1000 Venetian 
Way? 

Mr. Bowers. I bought — my brother and I bought that house in 1941 
or 1942, one. 

Mr. Rice. Who bought it? 

Mr. Bowers. My brother and I. 

Mr. Rice. What is your brother's name ? 

Mr. Bowers. Foster. E. Foster Bowers. 

Mr. Rice. What does he do for a living? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, he w 7 as in the Army, and he is now working w T ith 
another brother of mine selling paint. 

Mr. Rice. What is the other brother's name ? 

Mr. Bowers. Hamilton Bowers, Hamilton J. Bowers. 

Mr. Rice. What is he doing ? 

Mr. Bowers. Selling paint. 

Mr. Rice. Hamilton Bowers? 

Mr. Bowers. That is what he does. 

Mr. Rice. Where is he located ? 

Mr. Bowers. At the time he is working down through the South, 
working in the Southern States. 

Mr. Rice. Where is his home ? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. Where is his home ? 

Mr. Bowers. He was born in Tennessee ; he has traveled all over the 
United States. 

Mr. Rice. Where is his home ? 

Mr. Bowers. He travels. 

Mr. Rice. He does not have a home ? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. He does not have a home ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, he travels all the time; he takes different States 
now, and goes to several other States. 

Mr. Rice. Is he married ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes ; he is married. 

Mr. Rice. Where does his wife live ? 

Mr. Bowers. They are in Miami at the present time. 

Mr. Rice. Where do they live in the summertime ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, wherever he would be. 

Mr. Rice. Doesn't he live in Chicago ? 

Mr. Bowers. No; his wife is from Chicago, but he has worked the 
Northern States, the Northwestern, Montana, and all that through 
there for the past several years. Now, he is working the Southern 
States. At one time he used to sell check writers. 

Mr. Rice. Where do you get in touch with him when you want to 
get in contact with him ? 

Mr. Bowers. He is in Miami now. 

Mr. Rice. How about when he is not in Miami ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, the last place he lived was in Wayne Avenue, 
Chicago. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 277 

Mr. Rice. All right, 

Mr. Bowers. And he never did do anything but was a salesman all 
his life. 

Mr. Rice. And Foster worked with him ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, he has taken up working with him. 

Mr. Rice. When did he start that? 

Mr. Bowers. In the past 6, 7 months. 

Mr. Rice. Six, seven months, the past six or seven months ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes ; he is teaching him. 

Mr. Rice. What was Foster doing when you bought the home ? 

Mr. Bowers. He was in the Army? 

Mr. Rice. In the Army ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. After he left the Army, between the time he left the 
Army and the last 6 or 7 months, what has he been doing? 

Mr. Bowers. After he left the Army ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I had part of the Flagler Gardens at the time ; 
I had part of the Flagler Gardens. 

Mr. Rice. How much was it ? 

Mr. Bowers. I had 20 percent of the Flagler Gardens, a big bar and 
dance hall that seated 2,500 people. Anyway, Foster worked with me, 
and helped me out around there. I paid Foster out of my pocket $50 
a week. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Now, you moved into 1000 Venetian Way in about 1941, you think ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, it was either late 1941 or early 1942, I don't 
know. I got the deed ; I don't know which one it is. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have a telephone in there ? 

Mr. Bowers. There was no phone in there at the time. 

Mr. Rice. No phone in there ? 

Mr. Bowers. There was one in there, but there was no number ; it 
was not working, they had cut it off. 

Mr. Rice. You had a phone but no number. Then, what happened ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, the Flagler Gardens — I run into some nurse, 
and she wanted a place to stay. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. And at that time during the war a nurse could get a 
telephone. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. And she asked me about it, and I said, "I will rent you 
a room in my house," so she is the one who got the telephone. I never 
had anything to do with getting it ; at least, I couldn't get it. I tried 
to get it, and couldn't. 

Sir. Rice. You ran into a nurse at the Flagler Gardens? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I was there at the 

Mr. Rice. She could get a telephone ; she could get a priority? 

Mr. Bowers. She lived in my house ; she got the telephone on her 
own, and I just kept it there after she left. 

Mr. Rice. How long did she stay there? 

Mr. Bowers. She must have stayed there, oh, I am guessing, 8, 9, 
10 months, I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. What year was that? 

Mr. Bowers. I believe it was in 1943, 1 am not sure. 



278 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. You were not entitled to a priority, were you, for the 
telephone ? 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, what was her name? 

Mr. Bowers. Margaret Taylor. 

Mr. Rice. What became of her in 1943? 

Mr. Bowers. She went out West somewhere and I got a couple of 
letters from her, and since then I never heard from her, and I just 
kept the telephone on in her name. 

Mr. Rice. You kept the telephone on in her name? 

Mr. Bowers. It was a three- or four-party line. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Now then, how did you take care of the telephone bills? 

Mr. Bowers. Paid it. 

Mr. Rice. It came in her name and you paid it ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. You did not let the telephone company know she had 
gone ? 

Mr. Bowers. I didn't say nothing; I wanted a telephone. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, have you ever switched the telephone to your 
name ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Rice. When was that? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I had some trouble with the telephone, a lot of 
long-distance calls, and one thing and another, and I went to see a Miss 
Banks in the telephone office, the business telephone office, and they 
put the telephone in my name, and there had been a call to California 
of $19, and one to Colorado for $17, and a lot of more calls. She said 
she would trace it down, and a lot of wires were charged to my phone, 
which I did not send, and in Miami you can put a nickel in a slot, 
and tell them your telephone number is such and such a number. 

Mr. Rice. We are not interested in that. When did you get it in 
your name? 

Mr. Bowers. I am guessing, 1943, and I am not sure, 1943 or 1944. 

Mr. Rice. All right. I will read from a record, and see if it re- 
freshes your recollection. "Miami telephone 30527 at 1000 North 
Venetian Drive was transferred from Margaret Taylor to George L. 
Bowers on May 6, 1950." 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. That is when I transferred it. I 
thought you was speaking about Margaret Taylor when she got it. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. I was talking about that, but I am up to you now. 

Mr. Bowers. I had the phone transferred when I had trouble with 
the bills. 

Mr. Rice. Had trouble with the bills ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. In May of 1950? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, you have it in your name ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. At the time you obtained that service, you gave a refer- 
ence of Joe Byrnes or Joe Brinns. Who is he? 

Mr. Bowers. Joe Byrne lives on Sunset Island No. 2. 

Mr. Rice. How do you spell that name ? 

Mr. Bowers. B-y-r-n-e. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 279 

Mr. Rice. B-y-r-n-e I 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. Where does he live in the summertime? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, he generally travels. He is in Europe and in 
California. t 

Mr. Rice. What is his business? 

Mr. Bowers. He is in the beauty culture business. He puts on 
shows. 

Mr. Rice. Is he a bettor, does he gamble ? 

Mr. Bowers. I see him at the race track all the time. 

Mr. Rice. Do you ever see him at any gambling casino ? 

Mr. Bowers. Not as I recall. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you give him for a reference ? 

Mr. Bowers. He is a friend of mine. He lets me use his room in 
New York any time I go there when he is not there. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, he has a room up there ? Where is that? 

Mr. Bowers. In the Waldorf-Astoria. 

Mr. Rice. Waldorf-Astoria ? 

Mr. Bowers. He keeps it by the year; he doesn't hardly stay there 
30 days in the year. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Frank Costello ? 

Mr. Bowers. Never saw him in ray life. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Frank Erickson? 

Mr. Bowers. Never saw him in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Ever transact any business with him \ 

Mr. Bowers. Never in my life. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure about that ? 

Mr. Bowers. I am positive. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Mr. Bowers. I would not know him if I saw him. 

Mr. Rice. I think you previously testified that you never used any 
other name except your own ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. That is George L. Bowers ? 

Mr. Bowers. Except I went out — when I was at some tourist camp 
or something like that, if you know what I mean. 

Mr. Rice. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Bowers. There are ladies in here ; I can't tell you. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever use the name George Rankin ? 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. George Carter? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. You refuse to answer it \ 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer it; I told you once I had not 
used it. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Now, do you know a man by the name of Rush, John Rush ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. You refuse to answer whether you know John Rush ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. He testified and you got his testimony. 

Mr. Rice. You do know him, then, do you not ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that, Mr. Rice. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question. 



280 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to. 

The Chairman. John Rush is an attorney in Jacksonville. 

Mr. Rice. Jacksonville, Fla. Is that right? 

Mr. Bowers. I told you I refuse to answer it. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, did you ever transact any business with John 
Rush? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever send him a telegram ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that on the grounds of incrimina- 
tion, all these refusals 

The Chairman. We understand that. 

Mr. Bowers. Constitutional rights. 

The Chairman. We understand. You are being directed to answer 
those questions. You understand that ? 

Mr. Bowers. You did tell me I had the right not to answer them, 
didn't you? 

The Chairman. No, Mr. Bowers. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, constitutional rights 

The Chairman. I told you we would recognize your right insofar as 
any Federal statute is concerned, but I want you to understand that 
the questions you have refused to answer, that the chairman has 
directed you to answer, do you understand that ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I have to stand on my constitutional rights. I 
don't want to get convicted. 

The Chairman. Anyway, you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Did a George Rankin live with you at Venetian Way? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know any George Rankin. 

Mr. Rice. You do not know any George Rankin. Did any people 
live in Venetion Way that you did not know ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know George Rankin, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. You know everybody who lived with you there? 

Mr. Bowers. I should, it was my house and my brother's. 

Mr. Rice. You should. Just you and your brother lived there ? 

Mr. Bowers. And my wife. 

Mr. Rice. And no one else ? 

Mr. Bowers. At times we have had fellows to come in, and fellows 
who stayed 2 or 3 days, something like that, but never no George 
Rankin. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

I am going to show you a telegram to John Rush. 

Mr. Bowers. I have seen that telegram, you showed that to me once. 

Mr. Rice. I am going to show it to you again. It is directed to 
John Rush, Attorney, Florida Theater Building [reading] : 

Would like appointment with you afternoon or early night regarding lawsuit. 
Please wire me back collect what time to meet you and where. 

It is signed "George Rankin." 

It is sent from the telephone at 1000 Venetian Way, and I ask you 
if you know anything about that. [Showing document to witness.] 
Mr. Bowers. I don't know a thing about it. I have seen it once. 
Mr. Rice. Isn't that your telegram ? 
Mr. Bowers. Not mine. I told you that in Philadelphia. 
Mr. Rice. It is the telephone in your house, is it not? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 281 

Mr. Bowers. It was, 30527, that was my number. They have taken 
it out while I was gone. 

Mr. Rice. 1000 Venetian Way? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. How do you account for that telegram being charged to 
your telephone ( 

Mr. Bowers. The same way I can account for calls that come to 
California and to Colorado that I know nothing about. I don't know 
anybody in California or Colorado, and they made me pay a hundred- 
and-some-odd dollars on a bill, and that is why I went m and had the 
telephone changed ; I talked to a woman by the name of Banks. That 
is positively the truth. 

Mr. Rice. Did you pay your telephone bill ? 

Mr. Bowers. If you didn't, you wouldn't have any. 

Mr. Rice. Now, when you get something like that charged to it, 
do vou pa v it anyhow? . 

Mr. Bowers. You go down there, and if you don't pay it, they will 

cut it off. 

Mr. Rice. I notice that in your telephone the calls charged on your 
phone are charged to John Rush at the Hotel Wayne, in Waynesboro, 
Ga., after you had tried Jacksonville, Fla., first, on January 9, 1950. 
On January 11, there was one charged to you, to Mr. Rush. 

Mr. Bowers. I have talked to Mr. Rush but I don't know— I can t 
specify the date. 

Mr. Rice. You have talked to him? 

Mr. Bowers. I have talked to him. 

Mr. Rice. Has he acted as your counsel ? 

Mr., Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. What did you talk to him about? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in ? 

Mr. Bowers. You said he was an attorney. You say he is an at- 
torney. 

Mr. Rice. What business do you say he is in? 

Mr. Bowers. I wouldn't say. 

Mr. Rice. You talked to him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I talked to thousands of people. 

Mr. Rice. I see that on September 27, 1949, a George Bowers made 
a person-to-person call to Jacksonville, Fla., to John Rush. Was 
that you ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Again on 

The Chairman. You understand that you are directed to answer 
these questions. 

Mr. Bowers. I am being directed but I stand on my constitutional 
rights, Your Honor. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. On October 30, 1949, you called him at Jacksonville ? 

Mr. Bowers. Mr. Rice, I refuse to answer any questions pertaining 
to gambling, on my constitutional rights. I have heard that I do have 
that right. 

Mr. Rice. Do I take it that your calls to Rush were in connection 
with gambling? 



282 ORGANIZE© CRIME EN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Bowers. I didn't say that. I said I refuse to answer the ques- 
tion. 

The Chairman. Was Mr. Rush representing you in any case? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. He has testified, so I hear. 

Mr. Rice. I see, inside of a space of 2 months, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 
0, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 10. 17, 18—18 long-distance telephone calls 
to Rush in Jacksonville. 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. You don't have any explanation for that, at all ? 

Mr. Bowers. None whatever. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know a man named Crosby ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer. 

Mr. Bowers. I stand on my constitutional rights. 

Mr. Rice. Referring to a man by the name of Crosby, a so-called 
investigator for Gov. Fuller Warren, do you know him ? ■ 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. I see a number of calls from your home telephone, person- 
to-person, from you to Crosby, in Jacksonville. Did you ever talk to 
him on the phone ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer anything. 

Mr. Rice. On what ground? 

Mr. Bowers. Constitutional rights. 

Mr. Rice. This man is an investigator. 

Mr. Bowers. I refused to answer once, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know George McDonald. Jacksonville? 

Mr. Bowers. I have met George McDonald. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I met him. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in ? 

Mr. Bowers. Couldn't prove it by me. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any transactions with him? 

Mr. Bowers. Never in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Did you and Jack Middleton and George McDonald have 
an interest in an airplane ? 

Mr. Bowers. Jack Middleton and myself had an interest in an 
airplane. I had an interest with Jack Middleton. 

Mr. Rice. How about George McDonald ? 

Mr. Bowers. George McDonald had nothing to do with that air- 
plane. I win Joe Williams' half of it playing golf. 

Mr. Rice. Joe Williams is the man with the Peacock Club in Jack- 
sonville ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right, 

Mr. Rice. Middleton is with the Embassy Club? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What happened when you were playing golf? 

Mr. Bowers. I win half the airplane. That left "Jack Middleton 
owning half. I matched Jack Middleton for his half. I win it. He 
stole the airplane and the airplane burned up. 

The Chairman. That is the affair of the airplane ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is true. 

The Chairman. Let's pursue that. What kind of a plane was 
it? l 

Air. Bowers. Stinson. 105 horsepower. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 283 

The Chairman. How much did it cost? 

Mr Bowers. Well, I think Joe and Jack bought it, it wasn t exactly 
new, but almost new, I am not sure but I think they gave around 
$5,000 for it. . 

The Chairman. You were playing golf with which one i 

Mr. Bowers. Joe Williams. . 

The Chairman. And you won his half of the airplane. 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

The Chairman. How much did you put up, how much would you 
have paid him if you had lost? 

Mr! Bowers. The airplane at that time, he said his end was worth 

$1,500. 

The Chairman. So you bet him $1,500 i _ 

Mr. Bowers. Not all at une time, no. It started out playing $2 a 

The Chairman. And by the time you were finished you were play- 
ing for $1,500 on your side? 

Mr. Bowers. This was over a period of several months. 

The Chairman. And you won half of the airplane ? 

Mr. Bowers. There was no money transferred. 

The Chairman. Who owned the other half? 

Mr. Bowers. Jack Middleton. 

The Chairman. And then you and he decided that one or the other 

should own it? 

Mr Bowers. He wouldn't pay any expenses, they are pretty expen- 
sive and he said, "Well. I will match you," and we matched, and I 
win,' and I thought the airplane was mine, but he wouldn t release 
his end of it; it was still half in his name. 

The Chairman. Then what happened? 

Mr Bowers. I had the airplane at Fort Lauderdale, a fellow was 
doing some work on it at that time, and Jack got some fellow to take 
off downwind and got away with the airplane, and after they got the 
airplane it burned up. 

Mr Rice. Did you report that to the police I 

Mr. Bowers. I reported it to the Aeronautical; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. The police? 

Mr Bowers The police and the Aeronautical ; sure, everybody. 

Mr Rice Did you report that the plane had been stolen \ 

Mr Bowers. The fellow that owned the airport did so. 

The Chairman. You reported it to the Aeronautical Insurance C o. i 

Mr Bowers. Not insurance; Aeronautical. 

The Chairman. The Civil Aeronautics Administration? 

Mr Bowers. That is right. They looked for the airplane all over 
and couldn't find it. Finally the airplane burned up— how or why, 1 

don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Where did it burn? 

Mr. Bowers. Somewhere around Jacksonville. I wasn t m Jack- 
sonville at the time. 

Mr Rice How long did vou have it before it burned up i 

Mr. Bowers. Oh, I don't know exactly how long I had it: 1 must 
have put 300 hours on it myself . ' 

The Ch mkm vn. Which one of these fellows, Joe TV illiams and Jack 
Middleton. had some place out on Atlantic Beach, near Jacksonville I 



284 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Bowers. Atlantic Beach? Only one club out there, Embassy, 
but I never had no part of the Embassy. 
The Chairman. That was Middleton ? 

Mr. Bowers. Middleton was supposed to have owned it, but I never 
did have any part of it. 

Mr. Rice. You say you tossed a coin for half of the plane 2 
Mr. Bowers. Matched for it, Matched. He nipped it and he 
called it. 

Mr. Bice. He flipped it and he called it. 
Mr. Bowers. And he called it wrong. 
Mr. Rice. He called it wrong? 
Mr. Bowers. Right, 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Rhodes Boynton ? 
Mr. Bowers. He is dead. 
Mr. Rice. He is dead ? 
Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where did he live before he died ? 
Mr. Bowers. Orlando. 
Mr. Rice. What business was he in ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. You asked me that once before and 
I told you I had never been in business with him. 
Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. In the early thirties, before the mutuels come to Sara- 
toga, he and I was in the betting ring; we had space we rented off the 
race track. 

Mr. Rice. You were booking at Saratoga ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. I didn't put up any money. He put up the 
money. I was there, I had a piece of it. We lasted about a week 
and he got knocked out and that was the end of it. 
Mr. Rice. What do you mean "got knocked out" ? 
Mr. Bowers. Lose all he could lose ; all he had. 
Mr. Rice. Now, then, he came to Orlando ? 
Mr. Bowers. He is originally from Albany. 
Mr. Rice. What did he do in Orlando? 
Mr. Bowers. He operated the Flamingo Night Club. 
Mr. Rice. Wasn't that a gambling place, too? 
Mr. Bowers. I never did see any gambling in there. 
Mr. Rice. It wouldn't surprise you ; would it? 
Mr. Bowers. I don't know, I didn't never see any gambling there ; 
I have been in the spot but never saw any gambling. 
Mr. Rice. Who is Morrie Ryan ? 
Mr. Bowers. Morrie Ryan ? 
Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. From Newport? 
Mr. Rice. That is right ; Kentucky. 
Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What does he do up there ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I don't know what he does. He has the York- 
shire Restaurant. 

Mr. Rice. What was the connection between Ryan and Bovnton in 
Orlando? 

Mr. Bowers. That I couldn't say. 

Mr. Rice. Was there a connection there? 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 285 

Mr. Bowers. Mr. Eice, I don't know. I know I never had anything 
to do with it. 

Mr. Rice. They were friends ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, they knew one another. 

Mr. Rice. How come you sent a wire to MmTie Ryan, up in New- 
port, when Rhodes Boynton died ? 

Mr. Bowers. How come me to send a wire ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. That I don't recollect. It could have happened. 

Mr. Rice. I have a wire signed "Foster" directed to Morrie Ryan, 
518 Newport: 

Rhodes Boynton passed away this morning at Orlando ; services at 2 o'clock 
Tuesday. 

Signed "Foster." Charged to the telephone in your house. 

Mr. Bowers. Foster could have sent it. I wouldn't have known. 
Rhodes and I had learned to fly together. I never had any business 
dealings with him, if that is what you mean. 

Mr. Rice. Did Boynton ever come down to the Little Palm Club ? 

Mr. Bowers. He has had dinner in there. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Les Kruse '? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know a man named Les Kruse, alias Killer Cain ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know anybody by that name — Killer Cain ? 

Mr. Rice. You don't know him by that name ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer the Kruse question. 

Mr. Rice. Where is Kruse located ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know ? Ever had any trouble locating him ? 

Mr. Bowers. Never did try to locate him. 

Mr. Rice. Never did ? 

Mr. Bowers. You show me a wire with my named signed to it 

Mr. Rice. Can you explain that? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know how you can explain that, except any- 
body can go to a telephone and send a long-distance call and charge 
it to any number ; they can charge it to my number, and they will send 
it, and I will pay for it. 

Mr. Rice. Any time I want to make a call I can charge it to your 
number ? 

Mr. Bowers. Just go to a pay box and put in a nickel and tell them 
that you are So-and-So, I want this charged to this number, and they 
will do it. 

Mr. Rice. And you will pay for it ? 

Mr. Bowers. I will pay for it. 

Mr. Rice. As the boys say, "That ain't bad." I will read you a 
wire 

Mr. Bowers. If you don't pay it they will take the phone out. 

Mr. Rice. A wire dated in May of 19 — , May 12, I can't pick the 
year off of it, but it is evidently 1950 — to Les Kruse, 5206 Oakland 
Street, Skokie, 111. It reads : 

Trying to locate you. Imposible. Wire me where I can call you. If you are 
ducking rue just say "yes" or "no." Either way is all right. Answer by wire. 
Let me know if I should call. The farm is o. k. 

Signed "George Bowers." 

68958— 51— pt. la 19 



286 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Know anything about that? 

Mr. Bowers. I have seen that before. Refuse to answer. I refuse 
to answer that. 

Mr. Eice. You refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. On what ground? 

Mr. Bowers. Constitutional right. 

Mr. Rice. Isn't Kruse a man connected with the wire service, Pio- 
neer News, William Brown, in St. Louis? 

Mr. Bowers. That I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. You wouldn't know that. 

Mr. Bowers. No. I don't know anybody that is connected with it. 
I never had a horse book in my life. 

Mr. Rice. You never had a horse book? 

Mr. Bowers. Right; never did. 

Mr. Rice. What has that to do with Kruse ? 

Mr. Bowers. You asked me was he connected with the race track 
service. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. What is he connected with? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't Imow ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. How t come you refused to answer ? 

Mr. Bowers. Because I don't know. I refuse to answer something 
I don't know anything about. 

Mr. Rice. Something you don't know you refuse to answer? 

Mr. Bowers. That is exactly right. 

Mr. Rice. Is it that you don't know or do you deny that you sent 
the wire? 

Mr. Bowers. Put it any way you want. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. You refuse to answer which way it is? 

Mr. Bowers. I told vou that once. 

Mr. Rice. Which is "it? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer on the ground it might incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Rice. Do you deny sending the wire? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

The Chairman. Mr. Rice, by way of background, to show the 
relevancy, the testimony already before the committee is that the Les 
Kruse stock in the Pioneer News Service of St. Louis was transferred 
to William Brown ; is that right? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. That is according to the record, yes. 

Did you ever telephone to Kruse? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Never telephoned him ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did vou ever telephone him at Hot Springs? 

Mr. Bow t ers. No. I saw that. You showed that to me. 

Mr. Rice. Beg pardon? 

Mr. Bowers. You showed me something about that, you asked me 
about it once. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Never did do that? 

Mr. Bowers. Not that I recollect. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 287 

Mr. Eice. We have a record here of a call from your telephone to 
Kruse at Hot Springs. 

Mr. Bowers. Mr. Rice, you have a lot of records. 

Mr. Rice. You called him on January 23, March 19, two calls on 
March 27, 1950; Buckingham 13878, listed with Leslie Kruse, 4300 
Marine Drive, Chicago, 111. Does that help you any? 

Mr. Bowers. 1 refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. What do you refuse to answer ? 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer. 

Mr. Bowers. 1 stand on my constitutional rights. 

The Chairman. Let's go on. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know William Johnston? 

Mr. Bowers. 1 refuse to answer that on constitutional right. 

Mr. Rice. The man that is president of four dog tracks in Florida? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. Sportsman's Park, Chicago ? 

Air. Bowers. Same answer. 

The Chairman. You understand you are being directed to answer 
these questions. 

Mr. Bowers. That is right, but I still have the right to not an- 
swer, on my constitutional rights, so I am told. 

Air. Rice. Do you think the answer would incriminate you or 
Johnston ? 

Mr. Bowers. Wouldn't incriminate either one of us but I just re- 
fuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. You just plain refuse? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. I don't know anything about him. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. I answered 3 7 ou once. 

The Chairman. All right ; let's go on. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Burling would like to inquire. 

Mr. Burling. You have been refusing to answer questions on the 
ground of your constitutional right. Do I understand that the con- 
stitutional right you claim is the right against self-incrimination? 

Mr. Bowers. That is right. 

Mr. Burling. That is the only right you claim? 

Mr. Bowers. Because I am indicted in the State of Florida now. 

Mr. Burling. The sole basis of your claim is that you are afraid ■ 

Mr. Bowers. Incriminate myself. I stand on my constitutional 
right. 

Mr. Burling. Will you wait until I finish my question, please? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Air. Burling. Thank you. 

The sole basis of your claim that you have a right not to answer 
these questions is that it might incriminate you in the proceedings 
pending in the State courts of Florida ? 

Mr. Bowers. That is correct. 

Mr. Burling. You don't make any other claim? 

Mr. Bowsers. In this court here, too. 

Mr. Burling. This is not a court. 

The Chairman. All right. Anything else, Mr. Rice ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 



288 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

I see a record here of long-distance calls from you to Miami Beach, 
to Johnston at Jacksonville, on September 25, 1949, October 1, 1949, 
and December 18, 1949, you called him at Tampa; can you explain 
those calls ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Harry Russell ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that on the ground of constitutional 
rights. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Harry Russell's wife ?. 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. On what grounds? 

Mr. Bowers. Self-incrimination ; constitutional right. 

Mr. Rice. Does he have a wife named Orchid ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer; just refuse to answer that, Mr. 
Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Now, isn't it true that you are a very close friend of 
Russell? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that, if I knew him ; that will take 
care of that. 

Mr. Rice. You met Russell through his wife Orchid, didn't you? 

Mr. Russell. I refuse to answer that. I refuse knowing Russell. 

Mr. Rice. You what? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse on knowing Russell. 

Mr. Rice. You refuse to know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. On the ground of incrimination. 

Mr. Rice. How about Tony Carter ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that, although I don't think I 
ever saw him in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Ever been on his yacht, the Clara Jo? 

Mr. Bowers. Never. 

Mr. Rice. Never been on the yacht ?, 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Not the Clara Jo? 

Mr. Bowers. Not on the Clara Jo. 

Mr. Rice. Was the name changed ? 

Mr. Bowers. That I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Was it changed to the Flamingo? 

Mr. Bowers. I was on the Flamingo. 

Mr. Rice. The same boat ? 

Mr. Bowers. That I couldn't say. 

Mr. Rice. Well, didn't you borrow that, after S. & G. bought it, to 
go on fishing trips ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

The Chairman. Let's get on. 

Mr. Rice. It is said that people from Nashville were on that boat, 
Senator. 

The Chairman. Ask him about it. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever take anybody from Nashville on that boat 
with you ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer I have been on the boat. You asked 
me if I took anybody out on the boat and I refuse to answer that, 
naturally. I refuse to answer all questions that might incriminate 
me. I think I have the constitutional right to refuse. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 289 

Mr. Rice. You think it would be incriminating to say you had been 
on that boat? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I have been arrested for nothing before. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever call Russell at the Blackstone Hotel in 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. We have a record of a number of telephone calls 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. I just told you I refused to answer 
that I know the man, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Conceivably you could make a telephone call to some one 
without knowing him. 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Do you know Lieutenant Hutoe ? 

Mr. Bowers. I know of him. 

Mr. Rice. Who is he ? 

Mr. Bowers. He is on the police force, that is all I know. 

Mr. Rice. What police force ? 

Mr. Bowers. Miami. 

Mr. Rice. Miami Beach? 

Mr. Bowers. Miami. 

Mr. Rice. In what capacity is Lieutenant Hutoe ? 

Mr. Bowers. Used to be a lieutenant. I don't know what he is 
now. I don't know what — I haven't seen him in a long time. 

Mr. Rice. On the vice squad? 

Mr. Bowers. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Is he off of the force now ? 

Mr. Bowers. That I couldn't say. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Still on, isn't he ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. I take it for granted that he is be- 
cause if he hadn't it would be in the newspapers and I probably would 
know it. 

Mr. Rice. So you think he is still on ? 

Mr. Bowers. I think so. 

Mr. Rice. What transactions have you had with Lieutenant Hutoe? 

Mr. Bowers. I explained that once to you. 

Mr. Rice. Let's hear it again. 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Rice. You mean that you explained it once and now you refuse ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. On what ground ? 

Mr. Bowers. Incrimination. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, let me see if my recollection will help you 
any. According to my notes you said that you had a Chrysler auto- 
mobile which was stolen during the winter of 1950, and it was recov- 
ered by Hutoe ; is that right ? 

Mr. Bowers. I wasn't under oath when I was in Philadelphia. I 
wasn't handed no subpena until I walked out the door, if you recollect 
that. 

Mr. Rice. So that what you told in 

Mr. Bowers. What I said in Philadelphia is not here. 

Mr. Rice. You weren't under oath at that time ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. When you are under oath do your stories vary from 
when you are not under oath ? 



290 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Bowers. In some cases. 

Mr. Rice. Sometimes you don't tell the truth, then; is^that right? 

Mr. Bowers. I didn't say that. 

Mr. Rice. What did you mean? 

The Chairman. Anyway, is that true or not? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer that. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

The Chairman. All right; go ahead. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, let's go back to the automobile. Did you have 
a Chrysler? 

Mr. Bowers. I owned a Chrysler. 

Mr. Rice. Was it stolen ? 

Mr. Bowers- It was taken. 

Mr. Rice. It was taken? 

Mr. Bowers. Put it that way. I got it back. 

Mr. Rice. Who got it back for you ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. It was on account of a girl. 

Mr. Rice. On account of a girl ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. A girl took the car. That is the reason I refuse 
to answer. 

Mr. Rice. Did the police recover it? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Would you like to explain any further special circum- 
stances ? 

Mr. Bowers. No, no. 

Mr. Rice. You refuse 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer questions that might incriminate 
me ; over and over I refuse. 

Mr. Rice. Having your car stolen is going to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, it might with my wife ; yes. 

The Chairman. I think that is a sound constitutional privilege. 
The first one you have asserted that seems to have some substance to it, 
I might say. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, when did you get your wife ? 

Mr. Bowers. When I got her ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. You were in Philadelphia. 

Mr. Rice. That is right, I was ; in August. 

Mr. Bowers. The night after, I think; the night that I met you. 
You got the date there. 

Mr. Rice. In the winter ? 

Mr. Bowers. It was the next day. 

Mr. Rice. That was in the winter of 1950 ? 

Mr. Bowers. I have been knowing my wife for 15 years. 

Mr. Rice. She wasn't your wife until August, was she ? 

Mr. Bowers. Till August is right. 

Mr. Rice. When the car was taken you didn't have a wife, did you? 

Mr. Bowers. I wouldn't say that. 

Mr. Rice. You wouldn't say that ? 

Mr. Bowers. Anyway, if I answer that question, that question will 
cause me a lot of trouble, and I refuse to answer it. 

The Chairman. You mean it is going to cause you a lot of trouble 
with your prospective wife ? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 291 

Mr. Bowers. No; I am already married, but I might not be if I 
answer that question. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, what transactions did you have, if any, with 
Lieutenant Hutoe ? 

Mr. Bowers. I have never had any transactions with him whatsoever. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Bowers. I am more than sure. 

Mr. Rice. That is definite, that is positive ? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. You never had any transactions with him whatsoever ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. No business dealings with him ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Ever telephone to him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I just answered the question. You made four questions 
out of one. 

Mr. Rice. Let me hear your answer. 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. That settles it. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever telephone him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever send him a telegram ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

The Chairman. Let's go on. 

Mr. Rice. Listen to this, a telegram to Mr. Hutoe, April 3, 1950, 
charged to your telephone : 

Weather clear. Car running good. In fact excellent. Go to sleep. You are in 
for sure. You are very hard to locate. 

What did you mean by that ? 
Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 
Mr. Rice. What did you mean by "You are in for sure" ?_ 
Mr. Bowers. I told you I refuse to answer it, Mr. Rice. 
Mr. Rice. Here is another one, March 26, 1950, 10: 50 p. m., to C. O. 
"Hutto," phone 92768, 450 Southwest Nineteenth Road, Miami, Fla. : 

Tried to contact you all clay. Phone out of order. Am sure car will be fixed. 
No doubt. Don't worry. Am leaving for Jacksonville-Tampa. Be back real fast. 

How about that? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Did you send that ? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. What was the transaction ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you deny that you sent it ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Well, as a matter of fact, one of these wires is signed 
"Carter." 

Mr. Bowers. Signed what? 

Mr. Rice. Carter, George Carter. 

Mr. Bowers. My recollection is I never used no name "Carter." I 
never used no name but my own. 

Mr. Rice. Having knowledge that it is signed "Carter," do you 
want to withdraw your denial ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. Still refuse to answer whether it was Carter or you ? 



292 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. If it was Carter it wouldn't incriminate you, would it? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer because you won't take any other 
answer. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know what I will take ? 

The Chairman. Let's go ahead. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, do you know Butsy O'Brien ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Rice. William Gerald O'Brien, the wire service man in Miami ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Sometimes called Keogh. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Hagerty ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. On what grounds ? 

Mr. Bowers. Constitutional rights. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer those questions; you 
understand you are being directed to answer those questions ? 

Mr. Bowers. I still stand on my constitutional rights. 

Mr. Rice. A while back you said you never had a horse book, didn't 
you? 

Mr. Bowers. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. These men are in the wire* service which serves horse 
books ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Bowers. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Suppose I suggested they are. Is there any reason why 
you should refuse to answer if you have never been in a horse book ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. On what ground ? 

Mr. Bowers. I might incriminate myself. 

Mr. Rice. I see where you telephoned Hagerty a number of times. 

Mr. Bowers. That is wire tapping, ain't it, in case I did ? 

Mr. Rice. It could be. 

Mr. Bowers. You are liable to use that in court. 

The Chairman. It isn't wire tapping. We have the records of the 
telephone company. They were gotten under subpena. So it is not 
wire tapping. 

Mr. Rice. I see where you called Hagerty several times : January 
1950 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Know anything about that? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever hear of the cut-off of the wire service to 
Miami Beach in February or March of 1949 ? 

Mr. Bowers. I read something about that in the papers. I couldn't 
swear to it. 

Mr. Rice. Did you talk to Hagerty about that? 

Mr. Bowers. I never did. All I know about it is what I read in the 
papers. 

Mr. Rice. Did you talk to your friend Russell about that ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that I even know Russell. 

Mr. Rice. Now, I see you telephoned to a fellow named "Sponie," 
a dealer for the Beverly Hills Country Club outside of Cincinnati. 
What was that about? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 



293 



Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. Who is he? . . , , 

Mr Bowers. You know as much about him as I do. I could have 
talked to him, I don't know, but I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Ralph Pierce? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. . 

Mr. Rice. Well, Ralph Pierce, a Chicago man, associated with 
Harry Russell, do you know him? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know gangsters. You people got me tied up 
with gangsters I never heard of in my life. 

Mr7RiCE. Do you say you don't know Ralph Pierce ( 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

Mr Rice. Will you say you don't know Ralph Pierce i 

Mr! Bowers. I refuse to answer. You got me tied up being a hood- 
lum and gangster. . , 

Mr. Rice. If you are not tied up with these boys, how come you 
would be telephoning to them? 

Mr. Bowers. I didn't say I ever telephoned. 

Mr. Rice. The record shows you telephoned to him. 

Mr. Bowers. I don't say I did. 

Mr. Rice. Do you deny that you did ? 

Mr. Bowers. 1 refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. You won't deny it then, will you? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

The Chairman. He refuses to answer. Let s go on. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know anyone in the police department ot Phila- 
delphia ? 

Mr. Bowers. How is that? . 

Mr. Rice. Do you know anyone on the police department m rnila- 
delphia, on the police force ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Don't know anybody there? 

Mr. Bowers. Not that I can recall. 

Mr Rice Well, I see a record here where you telephoned to L/Ocust 
75100, police department at Philadelphia, one time. Do you know 
what that was for? , 

Mr. Bowers. You will have to read further. I don't know. 1 can t 

T*fkf*Q I I 

Mr. Rice. You don't remember that? 

Mr. Bowers. No. » 

Mr. Rice. Do you know anyone in the police department up there i 

Mr. Bowers. I don't think t know anyone. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever call the police department ot Philadelphia 
from Miami ? 

Mr. Bowers. Not that I can recall. 

Mr. Rice. Do you do any business in Philadelphia? 

Mr. Bowers. Never in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Ever stay up there? _ 

Mr. Bowers. I stayed there 6 weeks waiting on you people to call 
me. I was in bed sick anyway, so it didn't make any difference. 

Mr. Rice. Where were you waiting for us to call you? 

Mr. Bowers. The place I gave. 

Mr. Rice. Where is that? 



294 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN' INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Bowers. My lawyer's office. You said that you would get in 
touch with my lawyer if you wanted me within 72 hours, could he 
produce me, he said, "Yes," and I told you where I was staying, 1405 
Westbury Apartments at the time. 

Mr. Rice. What were you doing in Philadelphia? 

Mr. Bowers. I got married in Philadelphia. 

Mr. Rice. That is the only reason you went there ? 

Mr. Bowers. I wouldn't have any other business there. 

Mr. Rice. Did calling the police department have anything to do 
with getting married ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't recall calling the police department, Mr. Rice. 
I don't know anybody connected with the police department. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Smoky Cerpyser? 

Mr. Bowers. He is from Daytona. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I know him. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in ? 

Mr. Bowers. I know him slightly. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in? 

Mr. Bowers. I wouldn't know. I know he has a liquor store, or 
had one. 

Mr. Rice. Is he in the gambling business, too ? 

Mr. Bowers. That I couldn't swear to. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Raymond Craig ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever call him ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Matty Tracy, West Palm Beach? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. How about John O'Rourke? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Isn't John O'Rourke the man that was connected with 
Frank Erickson? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know Frank Erickson. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know Frank Erickson; sure about that? 

Mr. Bowers. I never saw the man in my life. 

The Chairman. All right, let's go on.* 

Mr. Rice. Now, listen to this, reading from a statement made by 
George. Patton, under oath, to the committee, sometime back, which 
concerns you, He says : 

Soon after meeting Friedlander, I was called by Ren Cohen, attorney for the 
S. & G. gambling syndicate on Miami Beach. At Cohen's request I went to his 
office. This was on a Saturday afternoon. Cohen told me that he had been 
observing me and thought I was a pretty smart boy. He said that attempts 
were going to be made to get me placed on the sheriff's gambling squad and that 
he wanted me to become in the sheriff's office what Pat Perdue was to them 
in the Miami Beach police department. 

Cohen then said he wanted me to meet the "head man," and then made a 
phone call. In about a minute or so after the call, Harry Russell came in. I 
didn't know Russell and bad never seen him before. Then Cohen introduced 
me to Harry Russell and then went to his outer office. Russell and I then had 
a private conversation in Attorney Ben Cohen's private office. 

Russell remarked that I had helped a friend of his to accomplish something 
and therefore he, Russell, felt that I was a capable man. I feel sure he meant 



ORGANIZED ORTME IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 295 

Crosby, although he didn't say so. He, too, said he was going to try to have 
me piit on the gambling squad. He instructed me to be careful in my actious 
and to "be as smart as Pat Perdue is." He said, "Not one gambler gives Pat 
anything because we take good care of him." Pat Perdue is an officer of the 
Miami Beach police department. Russell told me that whatever I had taken 
up to then in graft from gamblers was all right, but said that from now on, 
"We don't want you to take anything from anybody — only when we give it 
to you." 

When I was leaving Cohen's office after the talk with Harry Russell, then 
Cohen said to me that if I listened to them, meaning Russell and him, that I'd 
"be a verv smart bov and have a lot to gain." 

Up to the meeting with Russell and Ben Cohen, actually I had received very 
little in the way of graft payments. Some of the other deputies had given me 
small "cuts" on an occasion or two. 

Several weeks after meeting with Russell and Ben Cohen, I was telephoned 
at my home on a Sunday morning by Leo Levinson, who said that a meeting 
was being held immediately at the beach and that they wanted me to be present. 
I met Levinson and went with him to Harry Russell's house at 4415 Post Avenue, 
Miami Beach. Present at the meeting were Harry Russell, Jack Friedlander, 
George Bowers, and me. It was made clear at this meeting that there was a 
dispute among the gamblers as to whom they wanted put in charge of the 
sheriff's gambling squad, and it was also clear that these men expected whoever 
was in charge of the gambling squad to take orders from me. 

Then they discussed who should work with me on the gambling squad and 
asked for suggestions from me. I didn't have any preferences and said so. At 
this point, Bowers spoke up that no matter what happened or who was appointed 
"you are the man we want to deal with." 

Mr. Bowers. What is that? Head that last line again. 
Mr. Rice. Yes. 

They then discussed who should work with me on the gambling squad and 
asked for suggestions from me. I didn't have any preferences and said so. At 
this point, Bowers spoke up that no matter what happened or who was ap- 
pointed "you are the man we want to deal with." 

Mr. Bowers. He is a liar. I never was in the presence of him, Jack 
Friedlander, or Harry Russell, in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Patton ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't even know him. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know him? 

Mr. Bowers. No. Wouldn't know him if he walked in this door. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Friedlander ? 

Mr. Bowers. 1 refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Harry Russell ? 

Mr. Bowers. You asked me that 18 times. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Let's get to the bottom of this. How come Patton to 
have this sort of information, how come Patton had this information 
about what you said? 

Mr. Bowers. You will have to ask him. The county solicitor called 
him the biggest liar that ever walked. That is what I go by. I think 
he is. too. if he said that about me. 

Mr. Rice. Patton gave a pretty good description of you. 

Mr. Bowers. He could kuow me. A lot of people might know me 
and I wouldn't know them. 

Mr. Rice. So we have another one of those "Chambers-Alger Hiss" 
deals ? 

Mr. Bowers. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. Whittaker Chambers and Alger Hiss. Do you know 
about them ? 

Mr. Bow t ers. I read it in the paper. 



296 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Here is a man that knows a man and the other doesn't 
know him back ; is that right ? 

Mr. Bowers. I am not mixed up with those Communists. I don't 
know anything about them. 

Mr. Rice. Patton knows you, knows Friedlander, and Russell 

Mr. Bowers. I didn't say that. I said I didn't know Patton. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know Patton ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, Patton goes on to talk about Bowers and he 
said Bowers talked a little bit about Tallahassee and Jacksonville 
interests and : 

He made several references to these places but mentioned no names. He also 
remarked that setting up the fix in Dade County was pretty easy. He said he 
had to take care of a couple of hundred people. 

Mr. Bowers. He has got me mixed up with somebody else. 

Mr. Rice. You are just not the man? 

Mr. Bowers. How is that? 

Mr. Rice. You are just not the man? 

Mr. Bowers. I am not the man. 

Mr. Rice. Do you deny you ever were a "fix man" ? 

Mr. Bowers. Positively. 

Mr. Rice. Now then, Patton went on to tell about the time, around 
December 1949, when there was a raid on a horse book at 139 Lindsey 
Court, Hialeah. He says : 

While we were in the process of making this raid Leon Bishop came in the 
room, Col. Leon Bishop, of Governor Warren's staff. Bishop recently was ar- 
rested in another county for operating a gambling joint. Bishop asked me — 

meaning Patton — 

at the time if I knew what I was doing and I assured him that I did. Bishop 
asked me if I minded if he made a phone call to a friend. Bishop made a phone 
■call and approximately 5 minutes later the telephone rang. I was called to the 
phone. The caller identified himself as George Bowers, to whom I have previ- 
ously referred. Bowers told me to pack up and get the hell out of there imme- 
diately as this man Bishop was a close friend of Governor Warren. 

Bowers went on to say that the Governor was supposed to be very angry that 
this raid had been pulled. 

Have you anything to say about that ? 

Mr. Bowers. He tells that he knows it was me that called him over 
the telephone ? 

Mr. Rice. A man who said he was George Bowers called December 
1949. 

Mr. Bowers. There is 300,000 people who could have called and 
said they were George Bowers. 

Mr. Rice. You say you don't know about it; you say you didn't 
doit? 

Mr. Bowers. I didn't do it. 

Mr. Rice. It is interesting to note that in December 1949 we have 
a number of calls. 

Mr. Bowers. I never talked to Patton in my life and knowing it 
was Patton. I don't remember ever seeing Patton. I wouldn't know 
him if he walked in that door. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know anybody called the general ? 

Mr. Bowers. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know a Bishop, Leon Bishop ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 297 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know Leon Bishop. 

Mr. Rice. I noticed during December, when this happened, you 
called Crosby and Johnston a number of times. Did that have any 
connection? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

The Chairman. Let's go along. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, did you have an interest in the Kroger Co. ? 

Mr. Bowers. I did have an interest. I had $2,500 worth of stock. 

Mr. Rice. $2,500 

Mr. Bowers. Sold it and paid my income tax. 

Mr. Rice. "What year was that? 

Mr. Bowers. I couldn't swear to the year. I know I got a receipt 
on my income tax to show where I paid with the profit I made on 
the Kroger stock. I bought, I think, 100 shares. 

Mr. Rice. You paid $2,500 for the stock? 

Mr. Bowers. No. I don't know what it was. Anyway, my income 
tax will show it. I can't recall the exact figure. I remember posi- 
tively I sold the stock. What year it was I can't recall. 

Mr. Rice. You paid $2,500 for it? 

Mr. Bowers. I bought 100 shares. I don't think I paid that much 
for it. I might have got that for it. I know I made some money on 
it I made, if I am not mistaken, I think I made $250 on it. 

Mr. Rice. You sold it for $2,500? 

Mr. Bowers. My income tax will show. 

Mr. Rice. "Where did the money come from with which you bought 
that stock? 

Mr. Bowers. Came from my pocket, money that I had made. 

Mr. Rice. I beg your pardon? 

Mr. Bowers. Came from my pocket, money I had made and saved. 

Mr. Rice. Wliat business did you make it in? 

Mr. Bowers. Refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Did you pay a tax on it ? 

Mr. Bowers. I paid tax on every quarter I made in my life. That 
is the reason I don't have much. 

Mr. Rice. Before we leave George Patton, he is sometimes known 
by the name of Petemezas. Do you know him by that name? 

Mr. Bowers. No, sir. I would have to see Patton. I don't know, 
even, what he looks like right now. 

Mr. Rice. W'ould you like to look at his testimony? 

Mr. Bowers. I swear I don't know him. 

Mr. Rice. Do you think that if you saw him you might know 
him? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know any deputy sheriffs at all in Dade County? 

Mr. Bowers. I probably know deputy— deputy sheriffs? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. I probably know everybody that has been on the 
police department with the sheriff's office way back but here lately 
I don't know nobody. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Jimmy Sullivan ? 

Mr. Bowers. Never met him. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know any of his deputies? 

Mr. Bowers. I know some of them. 

Mr. Rice. Who were they ? 



298 ORGANIZE© CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Bowers. Burke was one. 

Mr. Rice. Burke? 

Mr. Bowers. Burke. 

Mr. Rice. Tom Burke? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. I knew him. I met him in 1926 on the beach. 
That was before he was ever a deputy. That is how I come to know 
him. And maybe the rest by sight. I don't know them by name. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a sister ? 

Mr. Bowers. Do I have a sister ? Yes, I do. 

Mr. Rice. What is her name ? 

Mr. Bowers. Virginia. 

Mr. Rice. Virginia what? 

Mr. Bowers. Virginia Bowers. She has been married. I haven't 
seen her in, oh, I would say 12 years. I don't know whether — I don't 
know where she is — I don't know if she is married now or not, I know 
she was. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know how to get in touch with her ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Where was she when you last were in touch ? 

Mr. Bowers. Chicago. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any other sisters ? 

Mr. Bowers. All my sisters are dead. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a safe-deposit box ? 

Mr. Bowers. I have one, yes, I do. 

Mr. Rice. Where is that ? 

Mr. Bowers. In the First Trust Building, back of the First National 
Bank, on Flagler Street. 

Mr. Rice. What name is that in ? 

Mr. Bowers. It is in George Bowers and Foster Bowers. 

Mr. Rice. A joint box with you and your brother? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any other boxes ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have one in Chicago? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. Have a joint box with anyone in Chicago? 

Mr. Bowers. I did at one time. 

Mr. Rice. Who was that ? 

Mr. Bowers. My mother, before she died. She has been dead 12 
or 13 years. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for those boxes? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I kept cash in it, whatever papers I had, cash, 
I always kept it in the box. 

Mr. Rice. How much cash did you keep in the box ? 

Mr. Bowers. You mean what is the most I ever had in there ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. Oh, I would say I have had as much as twelve or 
fifteen thousand. 

Mr. Rice. Cash? 

Mr. Bowers. Cash. 

Mr. Rice. Where did that come from ? 

Mr. Bowers. It come from my savings, by brother's savings, my 
mother's savings. 

Mr. Rice. What did you save this money from ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 299 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that; but I did pa}' tax on it. 
Mr. Rice. How come you put it in a safe-deposit box instead of an 
account ? 

Mr. Bowers. There is no difference. 
Mr. Rice. One pays interest. 

Mr. Bowers. Savings does, but then, if you need your money real 
fast, I want to get it, I don't want to have to get it out of savings, I 
want to go to the box and get it. 

Mr. Rice. Not fast enough to get it out of the savings acount \ 
Mr. Bowers. People having their money in a box during the depres- 
sion did not lose any, and people that bad their money in the banks lost 
all their money. 

Mr. Rice. You don't trust banks either? 

Mr. Bowers. I trust banks when I got money enough to have a check- 
ing account, but I generally pay off in cash. 

Mr. Rice. What assets do you have. Mr. Bowers, besides your inter- 
est in the Sunny Isles and Little Palm and house? 

Mr. Bowers. I have a 20-percent interest— it is a building at 115th 

Street and Biscayne Boulevard 

Mr. Rice. Isn't that the 115 Club? 

Mr. Bowers. 115 ; right. 

Mr. Rice. What interest do you have in that % 

Mr. Bowers. Twenty percent. 

Mr. Rice. Who has the other interest ? 

Mr. Bowers. The same partners that is in the Little Palm. 

Mr. Rice. That is Freedman 

Mr. Bowers. No; you are talking about the beach crowd. 
Mr. Rice. Tell me who they are. 
Mr. Bowers I don't know them all. 
Mr. Rice. I am getting mixed up. 

Mr. Bowers. When you get mixed up, Mr. Rice, I would like to be 
in with it. 

Mr. Rice. Beg pardon? 

Mr. Bowers. You asked me the partners in the Little 

Mr. Rice. 115 Club. 

Mr. Bowers. The same as in the Little Palm, myself, Jack 

Solomon 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Charley Wall, up in Tampa? 
Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever had any interest in any enterprise with 
Charley Wall? 

Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever do any business with Charley Wall ? 
Mr. Bowers. I refuse to answer that, 

Mr. Rice. You say you refuse to answer whether you even know 
him or not ? 

Mr. Bowers. I know him. 
Mr. Rice. What is he ? 
Mr. Bowers. I don't know what he is. 
Mr. Rice. What do you know about him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know anything except what I read in the paper 
about him. 



300 ORGANIZED CRIME IN: INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Rice. Did you read where they tried to shoot him five times? 

Mr. Bowers. I read that they — the last time you people had him in 
Tampa he testified being shot at — I don't know how many times. 

Mr. Rice. That was the first time you knew that ? 

Mr. Bowers. I knew he had been shot at ; I read it in the paper, I 
think, in 1938, that he had been shot at. 

Mr. Rice. Did he have any interest in your enterprises in Miami 
or Miami Beach ? 

Mr. Bowers. Not me. 

Mr. Rice. Did he 

Mr. Bowers. Except — wait a minute — except if he had an interest 
in the Old Royal Palm, during 1939 or 1940, 1 don't know, but I did — ■ 
1941. I don't know what year it was. 

Mr. Rice. Possibly he did ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. That is the only thing that you had in common with him ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know if he did or not. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any business in Tampa or Orlando ? 

Mr. Bowers. Never, positively not. 

Mr. Rice. Have any business interests on the west coast of Florida ? 

Mr. Bowers. Never in my life. 

Mr. Rice. Do you have any bank accounts ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't have a quarter in the bank; I don't have a 
quarter in the bank ; not in a box or no other way. 

The Chairman. All right, anything else ? 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a safe in your home ? 

Mr. Bowers. It was robbed this summer, but I never did keep any 
money in it, a little small tin safe. For a while I thought it was you 
people. After I found out my whisky and clothes were gone, then I 
knew it wasn't you all. 

Mr. Rice. What was taken from the tin box ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, the insurance papers, my receipts, things like 
that, no money at all. I had a suit of clothes in the closet with every 
receipt, income-tax notation of what I have ever paid the Government, 
in the lining of the suit, inside of the lining of the suit, and that suit 
was taken. 

Mr. Rice. Did you report this to the police ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who did you report it to ? 

Mr. Bowers. Just called the police station and reported it. I didn't 
report it until I got back. At the time I didn't know what was gone. 
The girl that was looking out after — I reported it. 

Mr. Rice. What is your financial position now as respects ready 
cash ? 

Mr. Bower. Ready cash, I don't have any. 

Mr. Rice. You don't have any ready cash? How long has that 
been going on ? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I could possibly raise money. 

Mr. Rice. You could possibly raise money ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long have you been out of ready cash? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, the last — you mean without a quarter? I mean, 
I haven't had any what you call money for some length of time. 

Mr. Rice. How long? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 301 

Mr. Bowers. Several months. 

Mr. Rice. Several months? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

Mr. Rice. What happened several months ago to cause you to get 

out of money ? , 

Mr. Bowers. I spent it; doctors got a lot of my money; I have been 
paving on my house; paying on my car. 

The Chairman. Anything else? Let's finish with this witness. 

Mr. Rice. Now, you were ill back in— what, December? 

Mr. Bowers. I have been sick for a long time. 

Mr. Rice. Going back to last winter and last spring, what was your 
financial condition? 

Mr. Bowers. Well, I had borrowed $15,000 and I had seven or 

eight cash. 

Mr. Rice. That is, you had seven or eight cash ( 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Thousand? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. . 

Mr Rice. Did vou file an income-tax return m 1949 i 

Mr. Bowers. If I didn't the auditor did, but I didn't do anything m 

1949. 

Mr. Rice. You didn't do anything in 1949 ? 

Mr. Bowers. No. 

Mr. Rice. When was the 

Mr. Bowers. At least I didn't make any money. 

Mr. Rice. You didn't make any money. 

Mr. Bowers. I think we filed a loss. 

Mr. Rice. I see a wire here where you are buying some tickets up m 
New York. What was that in connection with ? 

Mr. Bowers. What kind of tickets? ,„,_,, , 

Mr. Rice. Sherman Billingsley at the Stork Club received your 
wire : 

Will have friends drop by for tickets. Thank you. Will take care of our 
friends. Thanks again. ^^ 

Mr Bowers. That was some people from Canada that asked me to 
get them some tickets to the Damon Runyon South Pacific and at the 
time they were selling for $250 apiece plus the $6 or $7 for the ticket ; 
the charity got the $250. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Bowers. And some people called me and asked it 1 could get 

them. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. m 

Mr. Bowers. And I called, or wired, I don't know, Sherman Bil- 
lingsley, and somehow or other I got the tickets. 

Mr. Rice. Why did you wire Sherman Billingsley? 

Mr. Bowers. Because I know him. 

Mr. Rice. You know him ? 

Mr. Bowers. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Do any business with him? 

Mr. Bowers. I have been in his place to eat and drink. 

Mr. Rice. Has he been in your place? 

Mr. Bowers. Right. 

68958— 51— pt. la 20 



302 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Which one? 

Mr. Bowers. Little Palm. 

Mr. Rice. Sunny Island ? 

Mr. Bowers. I don't know if he was in there or not. 

The Chairman. Anyway, when you didn't have much money you 
could still buy tickets, go to New York? 

Mr. Bowers. That wasn't — you see, that was for somebody else. I 
didn't say I had always been broke. Sometimes I got money; some- 
times I ain't. 

The Chairman. All right. That is all, Mr. Bowers. You will 
remain under subpena. We will have to do something about you not 
answering these questions. 

Mr. Bowers. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. Is Mr. Friedlander here? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give to the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH FRIEDLANDER, MIAMI BEACH, FLA., AC- 
COMPANIED BY HERMAN E. KOHEN, ATTORNEY, MIAMI BEACH,, 
FLA. 

The Chairman. What is your name, sir? 

Mr. Kohen. Mr. Chairman, my name is Herman E. Kohen. I am 
an attorney, representing Mr. Friedlander. 

I would like the privilege of making 

The Chairman. Where are you from? 

Mr. Kohen. Miami Beach, sir. 

The Chairman. You are an attorney of law in the State of Florida, 
Miami ? 

Mr. Kohen. Yes. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Kohen; you may make any state- 
ment you wish. 

Mr. Kohen. I would like to make this observation to the committee. 

Mr. Friedlander now stands indicted in Dade County, Fla., on 3 
separate indictments constituting 20 to 23 separate and distinct counts ; 
each count in the indictments is amenable to separate and distinct 
punishment. To these indictments and to each and every count Mr. 
Friedlander has entered a plea of not guilty. 

The presumption of innocence rests and abides with this witness 
before this committee. We intend to fight each and every indictment 
and each and every count in these indictments. We intend to prove 
our innocence on all charges and all counts. 

In addition to that, and as an outgrowth of these indictments, and 
as a complement to these indictments, the Treasury Department now is 
making an exhaustive search, an exhaustive examination of all the 
moneys, all the accounts, and of all the income-tax returns of this 
witness. 

I respectfully importune this committee not to ask Mr. Friedlander 
any questions the answers to which might incriminate and/or degrade 
him. 



ORGANIZED CHIME EN! INTERSTATE COMMERCE 303 

In the Blaw case Mr. Justice Black, the Justice who wrote the 
opinion, said it doesn't make any difference whether the answer to a 
question is incriminating or not; however, if you forge a link in a 
chain of evidence which a prosecutor may prosecute on, the witness 
is entitled to the protection of the fifth amendment of the Constitution 
of the United States. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kohen, we are familiar with the Blaw case. 

Now, to get the matter a little better understood, are you repre- 
senting Mr. Friedlander in this income-tax investigation ; do you know 
of that of your own knowledge? 

Mr. Kohen. I know that from knowledge imparted to me by my 

client . 

The Chairman. There is no income tax indictment pending, is 

there '. 

Mr. Kohen. Well, this committee 

The Chairman. In other words, your client tells you that there 
is an investigation going on as to his income tax ? 

Mr. Kohen. If I may further elaborate, Mr. Chairman, please 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Kohen. The books and records of the various interests of Mr. 
Friedlander were seized and are now in the hands of this committee, 
and as a result of the seizure of these records there have been indict- 
ments and counts in Dade County, Fla., and now the Government is 
investigating whether the accounts and income tax returns are correct 

or not. 

The Chairman. Let's get this straight, Mr. Kohen. Any books or 
records that we h'ave were brought in under subpena. We seized no 
books and no records. 

Mr. Kohen. Of course, that is a matter of legal determination to be 
settled in the cases pending before the courts in Dade County. 

The Chairman. Now, another thing, Mr. Kohen : Of course, you are 
familiar with the Hitchcock decision, in which the Supreme Court 
has held that State matters don't make for any privilege in a Federal 
inquiry. You understand that, of course. 

Mr. Kohen. I have made an exhaustive study of that. The person- 
nel of the Supreme Court has changed and they have changed their 
opinions on a lot of matters in the last 10 years. 

The Chairman. Anyway, you understand that to be the present 
opinion of the Supreme Court. 

Air. Friedlander, although we are not legally bound to give you 
a privilege on a State matter, and you are not entitled to have any 
under the present decisions of the Supreme Court, I would feel 
inclined to be rather lenient and try to protect you insofar as any 
questions were concerned if this weren't the situation : that we have 
been trying to find you for a long, long time— long before any indict- 
ments were ever brought. 

Last July we had a subpena out for you down in Florida, Miami, 
and tried very hard to serve it. Your name was in the paper, it was 
fully announced that we had information that you were down in the 
Keys, that you had left to avoid service of the subpena. At that time 
you were not under any indictment. Why was it so difficult to get in 
touch with you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I had left before I knew there was a subpena for 
me. I hadn't been feeling well. I went to the west coast and then 



304 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

while there I read that all our records had been subpenaed and I was a 
little confused by it. I didn't know what would result from our records 
being seized. But I came right back. 

The Chairman. Mr. Costar was your accountant. He was sub- 
penaed to bring in certain records that he had. They were brought 
in under subpena by Mr. Costar. The thing is you knew we were look- 
ing for you all along in the beginning of last July. Mr. Mills — a very 
competent member of our staff from Florida — was on the lookout for 
you for a long, long time and couldn't get any information about 
where you were. He was informed that first you were at one place and 
then another. It was only very recently that you were able to serve Mr. 
Friedlander ; wasn't it ? 

Mr. Mills. Yes. 

The Chairman. Suppose we ask Mr. Mills: What effort did you 
make to try to find Mr. Friedlander? 

Mr. Mills. Mr. Friedlander, I was at your house several times be- 
tween July — July 13, I believe it was — up to the time that I served 
you with a subpena, which, as you remember, was several months later. 

I talked with people in the neighborhood and it appeared that Mr. 
Friedlander had been in and out, apparently at nighttime, but most of 
the time he was not there ; I was never able to find him, nor to get any 
line on where he was. I finally saw him slipping into his home and' 
I knew he was there and I went up and served a subpena. I was ad- 
mitted to the house but when they found out who I was the folks at 
first denied that he was there. Finally he came down and accepted 
the subpena. 

The Chairman. When was that? 

Mr. Mills. Do you remember the date, Mr. Friedlander? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. I don't. I imagine it was the early part 
of September. 

Mr. Mills. I think that is about right because you were getting 
ready to go to the World Series. 

The Chairman. That is the difficulty we are in, Mr. Kohen. 

Mr. Kohen. Mr. Chairman, I don't know whether anybody relishes 
being subpenaed by this committee, with the attending publicity that 
we have had, especially in Daytona. I am not going to paint Mr. 
Friedlander as an angelic person. We will stand on our constitutional 
right. I don't know whether he purposely stayed away from home 
not to be subpenaed but I do know this, that he always knew that he 
would be subpenaed; he has a home and family, and when he was 
subpenaed we waited on this committee to tell us whether to go to 
Tampa or not. That was back in September. 

So if he was gone for several weeks, long before he was subpenaed, 
I think he had a right to do so. 

The Chairman. Well, we tried to get him from the 1st of July — 
tried to locate him until the 27th of September. 

Mr. Kohen. It was sometime in September; that is so. 

The Chairman. Well, I will instruct counsel not to ask Mr. Fried- 
lander any questions — let me ask you first: Is your income tax under 
investigation ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Any questions which might incriminate him from 
an income tax evasion standpoint. As far as the State case is con- 
cerned 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 305 

Mr. Kohen. I would like to have this in the record, if the Chair- 
man please, that the investigation on the income tax is a direct out- 
growth of the indictments in Dade County. 

The Chairman. I don't know that that is true, Mr. Kohen. I sup- 
pose the intelligent servants of the Treasury Department make in- 
vestigations as to what income people have, and if they haven't filed 
returns showing that income, they make investigations, as they should 
do. 

But anyway, as to matters of income, we won't go into them recent 
enough so that they might have a bearing or connection with any 
income-tax matter. 

Mr. Kohen. May I make one more request of the committee? Both 
Mr. Friedlander and myself are booked for passage on the 8 o'clock 
plane back home, and it is imperative that I get there tomorrow morn- 
ing. I don't know how Mr. Friedlander may be situated. May we 
finish with Mr. Friedlander today, sir ? 

The Chairman. We will try to finish with him. 

Mr. Kohen. Thank you. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Where were you born, Mr. Friedlander ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Russia. 

Mr. Rice. Russia? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What year? 

Mr. Friedlander. Fifty years ago. 

Mr. Rice. What date? 

Mr. Friedlander. January 12. 

Mr. Rice. January 12 ; what year ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It would be 1901. 

Mr. Rice. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Eight years later. 

Mr. Rice. And are you a citizen ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When and where were you naturalized? 

Mr. Friedlander. I was naturalized in Newark, N. J., but I can't 
remember the date. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know what year — approximately what year ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. Rice, may I correct one thing ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. In Russia, 50 years ago, they didn't have birth 
certificates. My date of birth could be wrong. 

Mr. Rice. You have it on information and belief ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is right. I could be a year younger or a 
year older. 

Mr. Rice. I was asking what year you were naturalized in Newark. 

Mr. Friedlander. I have my papers back home. 

Mr. Rice. Did you live in Newark for a while? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Rice. How long was that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Up until about 12 years ago. 

Mr. Rice. About 12 years ago ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And were vou in business in Newark ? 



306 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE* 

Mr. Freidlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What businass were you in up there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I would have to stand on my constitutional 
rights. 

Mr. Rice. About what you were doing 12 years ago? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. You will be directed to answer what business you 
were in, in Newark. 

Mr. Friedlander. I had a little speakeasy about 20 years ago. 

Mr. Rice. Twenty years ago you had a little speakeasy. That was 
during prohibition. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And after prohibition went out, what business were 
you in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I was in the lottery business. 

Mr. Rice. Talking about numbers or policy ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Numbers. 

Mr. Rice. You operated out of Newark ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And what were you ; a banker or bookie ; what were you 
doing ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Banker. 

Mr. Rice. You were the banker ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Banker. 

Mr. Rice. And the same type of operation you have now, three num- 
bers, 600 to 1 ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How long were you engaged in this business ? 

Mr. Friedlander. About 5 or 6 years. 

Mr. Rice. Did you take any raps ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe I was arrested once. 

Mr. Rice. Did you pay a fine ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. That is the only time you were arrested ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure about that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I could be- 

The Chairman. Was that in 1931— was that in March 1931 ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I was arrested 20 — 25 years ago. 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, that was in Passaic, N. J. ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. I was arrested in Passaic, too, yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was that for? 

Mr. Friedlander. That was for numbers- 
Mr. Rice. That was numbers. So, you operated in Passaic and 
Newark ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. Now, were those the only two raps you had ? 

Mr. Friedlander. For numbers? 

Mr. Rice. For anything. 

Mr. Friedlander. I have been arrested for vagrancy. 

Mr- Rice. You have been arrested for vagrancy? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. When and where was that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Florida, twice, three times. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 307 

Mr. Rice. And you went there about 12 years ago, you said ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Eice. Are those the only raps you have had in Florida? 

Mr. Friedlander. In Florida — well, I am under indictment, if you 
call that arrest. 

Mr- Rice. Then you were arrested in Newark, in Passaic, three 
times in Florida for vagrancy? 

Mr. Friedlander. It may have been. three? 

Mr. Rice. It may have been three ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, were you ever arrested for black-marketing? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes ; United States Government. You are right. 

Mr. Rice. Did you forget that? 

Mr. Friedlander. I forgot about it. 

Mr. Rice. It wasn't too long ago? 

Mr. Friedlander. That was about 10 years ago, I think; I don't 
know. 

Mr. Rice. The record I have says you were fingerprinted June 28, 
1947, Joseph Friedlander — I beg your pardon — July 23, 1915, as Jack 
Friedlander, by the United States marshal, Miami, on. the charge of 
black-market liquor conspiracy. 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. What happened on that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. The case was nol prossed. 

Mr. Rice. Nol prossed ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Were you ever arrested in regard to narcotics back in 
1934 or 1935? 

Mr. Friedlander. Never in my life. 

Mr. Rice. How about an arrest for gambling in Florida, disorderly 
conduct ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe there was a gambling charge. Maybe 
instead of vagrancy, it was disorderly conduct ; I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Maybe one of these vagrancies was, as a matter of fact, 
gambling? 

Mr. Friedlander. Maybe. 

Mr. Rice. In June 1947, you were fingerprinted by the Miami Police 
Department for investigation — gambling. What became of that? 
Did you pay a fine on that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think there was never a charge made. 

Mr. Rice. Never a charge made ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. When you were in the numbers business up in Newark 
and Passaic, you acted as a banker, yourself, you say? 

Mr. Friedlander. I had several partners. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ]ay-off — you know what a lay-off is? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You did not engage in any lay-off in that operation? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. It was all your own? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Were you in it as an individual or did you have 
associates ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I had some associates. 



308 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Rice. Who were some of those men? Longy Zwillman? 

Mr. Friedlander. No 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever been in business with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; I stand on my constitutional right. 

Mr. Rice. Back in between 1930 and 1940, were you in business with 
Longy Zwillman? 

Mr. Friedlander. I was never in business with him. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any transactions with him during that 
time ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I will have to stand on my constitutional right 
on the ground it might tend to incriminate or degrade me. 

Mr. Rice. I didn't hear the last part. 

Mr. Friedlander. Degrade. 

Mr. Rice. So, you do know Longy Zwillman? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes ; I do. 

The Chairman. Let's put this prior to 1940. Let's say, back before 
1940 were you in business with Zwillman, Longy Zwillman ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you have any transactions with him prior to 
that time ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Business transactions ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. What was it that you refused to answer now? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I just want 

Mr. Kohen. I think Mr. Rice asked who were partners with Mr. 
Friedlander. 

Mr. Rice. What we are trying to get at is what transactions he had 
with Zwillman before 1940. 

Mr. Kohen. The answer was he did not have any transactions with 
Zwillman. 

Mr. Rice. Business transactions. 

Mr. Kohen. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any 

Mr. Friedlander. He may have given me tickets to ball games or 
to fights. 

Mr. Rice. Did you visit back and forth with him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. He gave you a few tickets to fights ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I would come up from Florida, and when 
I came up from Florida, if there was a fight in New York, I would 
stop by. 

Mr. Rice. This is before you w T ent to Florida. 

Mr. Friedlander. You said 1940. 

Mr. Rice. In the thirties. 

Mr. Friedlander. Oh, in the thirties. 

Mr. Rice. You knew him when you were in Jersey ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do with him then ; what transactions did 
you have? 

Mr. Friedlander. None ; nothing whatever. 

Mr. Rice. You just knew him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What made you know him ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 309 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, we grew up together. 

The Chairman. Speak louder, please, Mr. Friedlander. 

Mr. Friedlander. We grew up together in the same ward. 

Mr. Rice. The same ward. You went around with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I would not say that, but 35 years ago we 
used to go to a certain playground, to play basketball, stuff like that. 

Mr. Rice. What business did Longy get into ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think I should answer. 

Mr. Kohen. I don't see how 

Mr. Rice. Wait a minute. Let's see what the witness says. 

Mr. Kohen. How could that possibly affect this witness? 

The Chairman. Just a minute. 

Do you know of your own knowledge what business Mr. Zwillman 
was in? 

Mr. Friedlander. What business he was in ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

The Chairman. He doesn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, did you hold a partnership in the numbers 
racket with Zwillman? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know William Tipplett? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Rice. Who is he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I was associated with him about 12 years ago in 
a number business — about 12 years ago. 

Mr. Rice. That was in Jersey ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Was Shoots, Bill Shoots 

Mr. Friedlander. Douglas Schultz. 

Mr. Rice. Schultz, how do you spell that? 

Mr. Friedlander. S-c-h-u-1-t-z. 

Mr. Rice. What was his first name ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Douglas. 

Mr. Rice. Now, wasn't Zwillman in that, too ? 

Mr. Friedlander. There was another Zwillman. 

Mr. Rice. What Zwillman was that? 

Mr. Friedlander. Daniel Zwillman. 

Mr. Rice. What relation is he to Longy ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Might be a cousin, I am not sure; there is some 
relationship. 

Mr. Rice. Did Longy have a piece of that, too ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, did Longy have a piece of Daniel's ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I am quite sure he didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Where is Longy now ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. Rice. When did you see him last? 

Mr. Friedlander. Maybe a year ago, or less. 

Mr. Rice. A year ago. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Fix it as close as you can when you last saw Longy ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I would say last summer. 

Mr. Rice. The summer of 1950? 



310 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Friedlander. The fall of 1950. 

Mr. Rice. Around world series time? 

Mr. Friedlander. Around that time. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see him at the world series ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Rice. Where was it that you saw him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. In Newark. 

Mr. Rice. Whereabouts? 

Mr. Friedlander. I went to the Public Service Tobacco Co. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. Because I had some trouble getting tickets for 
the series ; I knew they always had a few tickets laying around. 

Mr. Rice. Public Service Tobacco Co. What is that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is a cigarette vending machine company. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Coin machine? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, that distributes packages of cigarettes. 

Mr. Rice. What happened there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. They did not have any tickets, and that was the 
end of it. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see Longy ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Does he run that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe he does ; he was there. 

Mr. Rice. What is the address of that company ? 

Mr. Friedlander. The address, it is Hillside, N. J., just outside of 
Newark. 

Mr. Rice. Now, do you have any interests in Newark at this time? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, I don't. 

Mr. Rice. Who are the Diamond boys ? 

Mr. Friedlander. They are brother-in-laws. 

Mr. Rice. Is that on your wife's side? 

Mr. Friedlander. My wife's side. 

Mr. Rice. What business are they in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think I want to answer that question. 

Mr. Rice. You don't think you want to answer that. What are 
their names ; what are the Diamond boys' names ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Morris, Max, and Irving. 

Mr. Rice. Morris, Max, and Irving. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And you say you don't want to answer what business 
they are in. Do you know what business they are in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I am not sure, but I would rather not. I stand 
on my constitutional grounds and refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Rice. Aren't they in the gambling business ? 

The Chairman. Mr. Friedlander, when you left New Jersey, didn't 
you turn over your interest to your brother-in-laws ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; I did not. 

The Chairman. Or sold to them? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir; I didn't. 

The Chairman. What did you do with your interests ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Just walked away. 

The Chairman. Did they take over? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe my partners absorbed my interest. 

Mr. Rice. Who are these other partners you are talking about? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN 1 INTERSTATE COMMERCE 311 

Mr. Friedlaxder. We just mentioned Douglas Schultz. 

Mr. Rice. How about Jerry Catena? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No partner of mine. 

Mr. Rice. You know him? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What transactions have you had with Catena ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. None. 

Mr. Rice. Never had any transactions at all with Mr. Catena? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Not business transactions. 

Mr. Rice. Any other transactions? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I may have borrowed some money from him. 

Mr. Rice. Every pay anything off to him ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know. 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No. 

Mr. Rice. Is he in the money-lending business ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for your borrowing money from 
him? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I ran out of money. 

Mr. Rice. Why would he lend you money ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. We have been friends for about 25 years. 

Mr. Rice. You grew up with him ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Well, I won't say I grew up with him. I have 
known Catena for 25 years. 

Mr. Rice. When you borrowed money from Jerry Catena, what 
security did you give? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. None. 

Mr. Rice. For what reason did you borrow money? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Because I needed money. 

Mr. Rice. How much would you borrow ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. A couple of thousand. 

Mr. Rice. Ever go to Hot Springs with Catena ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No; I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. Ever been in Hot Springs ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I have been there. 

Mr. Rice. Never been there with him? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Never been — I haven't gone with him; I may 
have met him there. 

Mr. Rice. How about Frank Costello? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Never met the man ; never met the man. 

Mr. Rice. Is he a friend of Catena's ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. You wouldn't know? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Were you ever in Hot Springs when Catena and Costello 
were there? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I never met Mr. Costello in Hot Springs. 

Mr. Rice. Did you telephone Catena on one occasion in Hot 
Springs ( 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I may have. 

Mr. Rice. Wasn't Costello there with him? 



312 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Eice. What did you talk about ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I couldn't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Borrow money? 

Mr. Friedlander. Could be. 

Mr. Eice. Do you know where Zwillman lives? 

Mr. Friedlander. Abner? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. It is one of the Oranges. 

Mr. Rice. Hillside? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever visit at 1464 North Broad Street, Hillside! 

Mr. Friedlander. Would that be where the vending business is? 

Mr. Rice. I think that is where Zwillman lives. 

Mr. Friedlander. No, Abner Zwillman lives in one of the Oranges, 
one of the little towns. 

Mr. Rice. What is the address 1464 North Broad Street? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know. 

Mr. Friedlander. Is that Newark or Hillside ? 

Mr. Rice. Hillside. 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Can't remember ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It may have been some fellow that lives there by 
the name of Steinberg, who is a friend of mine way back ; he visits 
in Florida with me, but I don't know if that is the address or not. 

Mr. Rice. Wliat business do you have with Steinberg? 

Mr. Friedlander. None. 

Mr. Rice. Just visits? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is this Cool- Vent Awning ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know anything about that. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know. 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Haven't you ever been there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, not to my recollection. I may have been 
there once, but I am not certain of it. 

Mr. Rice. Were you ever there with Catena ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I went to see Catena, because my brother-in-law 
wanted to get some awnings 

The Chairman. Will you speak a little louder, please ? 

Mr. Friedlander. My brother-in-law wanted to buy some awnings, 
and Mr. Catena had told me that he was in this awning thing, and I 
happened to be up North then, and told him to send his salesman up 
there to try to sell him. 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, you go up there about every 3 months, 
don't you, to Jersey ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't go up in the wintertime. I have three 
brothers-in-law up there; sister-in-law. 

Mr. Rice. When you are up there you generally always see Zwill- 
man and Catena ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Not all the time. 

Mr. Rice. Pretty near all the time? 

Mr. Friedlander. Sometimes. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 313 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Sam "Game-Boy" Miller? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr Rice. What transactions have you had with Miller i 

Mr. Friedlander. I stand on my constitutional right, retuse to 

Answer. 
Mr. Rice. What business is Miller in? 
Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 
Mr. Rice. Where have you seen him? 
Mr. Friedlander. Miami Beach. 
Mr. Rice. Is that the only place? 
Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. Did you ever see him in Ohio ? 
Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where in Miami Beach have you seen Game-Boy Miller I 
Mr. Friedlander. At his home. . . -, -, 9 

Mr. Rice. Do you know whether or not he has a criminal record « 
Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 
Mr. Rice. Do you call him at his home? 
Mr. Friedlander. Sometimes. 
Mr. Rice. What was the purpose of your calls? 
Mr. Friedlander. I stand on my constitutional right; retuse to 

answer. . 

The Chairman. I will direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Kohen. I can clarify that, if the chairman please. 

Mr. Miller and Mr. Friedlander conducted the Island Club. Any- 
thing' in connection with his partners in the operation of the Island 
Club comes under the purview of the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. How long ago has it been since they conducted 
the Island Club? 

Mr. Kohen. Last year. 

Mr. Rice. How about "Weeny" Grover; do you know him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in? 

Mr. Friedlander. Owns a restaurant. 

Mr. Rice. Where? 

Mr. Friedlander. Miami Beach. 

Mr. Rice. Miami Beach. What is the name of that restaurant? 

Mr. Friedlander. Park Avenue Restaurant. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever make a trip with Weeny ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go to Hot Springs with Weeny; and to Las 
Vegas ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I met him there. 

Mr. Rice. Ever been to Las Vegas ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes ; I met him there. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you meet him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Las Vegas. 

Mr. Rice. Where? 

Mr. Friedlander. At the Desert Inn. 

Mr. Rice. What was the purpose of this meeting ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No purpose. He was stopping at another hotel. 
I was stopping at the Desert Inn. 

Mr. Rice. You just ran into him? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 



314 ORGANIZE© CRIME EN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. What did you go out there for ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I wasn't feeling too well. 

Mr. Rice. When did you leave? 

Mr. Fkiedlander. About the middle of July. 

Mr. Rice. About the time when the subpenaes were getting around? 

Mr. Fkiedlander. That would be correct. 

Mr. Rice. You went to Las Vegas? 

Mr. Fkiedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do out there? 

Mr. Friedlander. Nothing very serious ; just what any other tourist 
would do. 

Mr. Rice. Had you stopped off at Hot Springs on that trip? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Rice. What was Weeny doing out in Las Vegas ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I guess he was gambling; I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. How about Eddie Rosenbloom; do you know him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Eddie Rosenbaum, yes. 

Mr. Rice. That is Eddie Rosenbaum. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Eddie Rosenbaum. Have you engaged in any business 
with Eddie % 

Mr. Friedlander. About five or six. 

Mr. Rice. Five or six businesses? 

Mr. Friedlander. Five or six years ago. 

Mr. Rice. What was that. 

Mr. Friedlander. I will have to stand on my constitutional grounds. 

The Chairman. What was the name of the business, sir? 

Mr. Friedlander. I really don't remember the name of the business. 

Mr. Rice. Was it a restaurant ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. A horse book ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Might have been. 

Mr. Rice. Alight have been a horse book ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How about Dimples Molinski? 

Mr. Friedlander. What is the question? 

Mr. Rice. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He's dead ; I did know him. 

Mr. Rice. You did know him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. He is dead ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Air. Rice. Were you in business with Mo Molinski? 

Air. Friedlander. I will have to stand on my constitutional grounds 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Koiien. Just a minute. 

The Chairman. The only question we will ask you is whether you 
were in business with him. and the question will not be pursued, 
further. 

Air. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Koiien. The answer is "Yes." 

Air. Rice. Have you been in business with Ben Kutlow ? 

Air. Friedlander. I have never been in business with him. 

Air. Rice. Do you know him ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 315 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Rice. How about Mike Cappola, sometimes called Trigger- 
Mike Cappola I 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Yes: I do. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any transactions with him? 

Mr. Friedlaxder^. I will have to stand on my constitutional grounds 
and refuse to answer. 

The Chairman. Is this the Cappola from New Orleans? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No; New York City. 

Mr. Rice. Where is he now ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. New York City. 

Mr. Rice. Trigger-Mike is from Brooklyn? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Brooklyn is the same thing. 

Mr. Kohex. Yon are wrong on that, too: Harlem. 

The question is, Prior to 1940, did you have any business transac- 
tions with Mike Cappola ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Prior to 1940? 

The Chairmax. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No. sir. 

The Chairmax. If you answer that you have had business transac- 
tions with Mike Cappola I will instruct counsel not to ask what the 
financial arrangements were ; what the business was. 

Have you had business transactions with Mike Cappola ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No. 

The Chairmax. Since 1910? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No, sir. 

The Chairmax. You have not? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. No, sir. 

The Chairmax. All right. Why did you refuse to answer that a 
minute ago? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Because I had a room with a couple of telephones 
in it. and there was somebody else sitting in there; he sat there, too, 
but I never received any money from him ; I only received from the 
other fellow. 

The Chairmax. You had a room with telephones in it? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Yes. 

The Chairmax. And what ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. The people in there were paying for the privilege 
of using these phones to bet horses with ; they were not booking, they 
were betting. It is difficult to get phones, or was difficult, and one 
fellow there was paying me. Of course, I don't want to go into that 
further. That is why I said what I said to Mr. Rice. 

The Chairmax. That was a room where? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. In Miami. 

The Chairmax. You had a number of telephones all over town? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. That is right ; quite a few. 

The Chairmax. Other people would use them to call in bets? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. That is correct. 

The Chairmax. In other words, horse booking? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Yes. 

The Chairmax. How many phones did you have ? 

Mr. Friedlaxder. I am sorry; I will have to stand on my constitu- 
tional grounds. 

Mr. Kohex. You can tell 



316 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. The number of telephones you had. 

Mr. Kohen. I am only fearful of an admission by this witness to 
be used against us in later prosecution now pending, because we are 
charged with various forms of gambling. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kohen, I think I should call your attention — ■ 
and also Mr. Friedlander's attention — to the fact that there is a Fed- 
eral statute, as you know, that no testimony that he gives here can be 
used against him in any proceeding, except perjury or contempt pro- 
ceedings here. You are aware of that ? 

Mr. Kohen. I am aware of that, but it does not work that way. 
Suppose we were asked in a later prosecution, "Did you at any time 
admit that you did so-and-so?" What are we going to say; that we 
didn't say it? 

The Chairman. Then, you have a constitutional ground to refuse 
to answer whether he said so-and-so to this committee under the 
statute. 

Mr. Kohen. Well, I know that there are members of the fourth 
estate of our home town here, and I know it will be made use of 
later on. 

The Chairman. It can't be used in court. 

Mr. Kohen. We have no objection to telling this committee what 
we have done. 

The Chairman. Let me put it this way : You did have quite a num- 
ber of telephones; is that true? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Now, how did you get those telephones? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, some I bought from the fellows that had 
them before, and others I applied to the telephone company for, made 
application for four or five phones. 

The Chairman. All in your name ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Some more in the names of, possibly, a printing 
company or vending company, or something like that. 

The Chairman. All right. Is that the Uneeda Vending Co.? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. You say you bought the physical handset from other 
people, the telephone company equipment? 

Mr. Friedlander. The phones were already installed; probably 
were used by a previous, let's put it, bookmaker. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. And they sold me the phones. 

Mr. Rice. The phones were already installed and operating? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. What did you buy? 

Mr. Friedlander. The privilege of using the phone. 

Mr. Rice. You bought the privilege of using the phone? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. It was actually the telephone company's instrument? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes; naturally. 

Mr. Rice. When you obtained the privilege, you sold it to some- 
one or sublet it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Frank Nitti ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Never met him. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 317 

Mr. Rice. Do you know of him? 

Mr. Friedlander. I have read about him. 

Mr. Rice. Who was he? 

Mr. Friedlander. A Chicago man. 

Mr. Rice. Never met him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. How about Charlie Fischetti? 

Mr. Friedlander. I have met him. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I believe I met him in Miami Beach. I 
think he maintains a home there. 

Mr. Rice. What business is Fischetti in? 

The Chairman. Ask him if he had any business with him. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any business dealings with Fischetti ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. Rice. How about Frank Angersola, sometimes known as King? 

Mr. Kohen. I think you have the first name wrong, you mean 
Fred? 

Mr. Rice. Fred Angersola. 

Mr. Friedlander. I know Fred. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in? 

Mr. Friedlander. I have no idea. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any transactions with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How about his brothers, John and George ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I know George. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had any business deals with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Where are they from, if you know ? 

Mr. Friedlander. As far as I know, they are supposed to be from 
Ohio, but they all maintain homes in Miami Beach. 

Mr. Rice. How about Lefty Clark, sometimes known as William 
H. Bishop ; do you know him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Have you had business with him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. No transactions with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Joe Massei, of Detroit, do you know him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What transactions have you had with him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. None. 

Mr. Rice. How about Sam Castellane; do you know him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What business deals have you had with him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, he acted as my chauffeur, and so on. 

Mr. Rice. He is from New Jersey ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes; Newark. 

Mr. Rice. Does he have a criminal record ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. He was a chauffeur for you ? 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 21 



318 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And handyman; is that right? 

Mr. Friedlander. I would say he was my chauffeur. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Castellane by any other name? 

Mr. Friedlander. Mess. M-e-s-s. 

Mr. Rice. He used the name "Mess" sometimes? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What is "Mess"? 

Mr. Friedlander. He has had that, I guess, ever since he was a 
kid, just "Mess", M-e-s-s. 

Mr. Rice. How about Mushy Wexler ; do you know him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Max Eler ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I know him. 

Mr. Rice. Max Roman — same fellow. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. Max Raymond. Max Raymond and Max 
Eler, one and the same. 

Mr. Rice. What business is he in? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Any transactions with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Quite sure. 

Mr. Rice. He has visited your house sometimes? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was the reason for that? 

Mr. Friedlander. He is a pretty sharp boy with the horses. 

Mr. Rice. What has that to do with coming to your house? 

Mr. Friedlander. He comes and gives me some tips. 

Mr. Rice. Comes and gives you tips, because he is sharp? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What do you do with the tips ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Bet on them occasionally. 

Mr. Rice. Bet on them ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How do you bet on them ? 

Mr. Friedlander. How? 

Mr. Rice. Yes ; book or track ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Book. 

Mr. Rice. Bet at the book ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Do you have any interest in the Frolic Club? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Or did you have? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Rice. What was your interest there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. You mean the financial interest? 

Mr. Rice. Did you have a piece of it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How much of a piece did you have? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. You don't remember? 

Mr. Friedlander. I sold my end of it to the other parties im- 
mediately after the war. 



ORGANIZE© CHIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 319 

Mr. Rice. Who did you sell to ? 

Mr. Friedlander. My former partners there, Thomas, Byer 

Mr. Rice. Charlie Thomas? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who else ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Mr. Byer. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Dave Byer ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who else ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yarborough. 

Mr. Rice. Is that what they called the Little Syndicate? 

Mr. Friedlander. Could be. 

Mr. Rice. Is that what you call them ? 

Mr. Friedlander. They have been called that. 

Mr. Rice. Where are they now. the Tepee ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. I don't think there is anything 
doing up there. 

Mr. Rice. Aren't you in the Tepee ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I used to be. 

Mr. Rice. You are not any more \ 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, we are out of business. 

Mr. Rice. You are out of business. How long have you been out 
of business? 

Mr. Friedlander. Oh, I would say about a year. 

Mr. Rice. What business was the Tepee in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Rice. I want to find out what business they are out of ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I will have to stand on my constitutional grounds. 

Mr. Rice. The Tepee, when I was down there a month or so ago, 
was still open. 

Mr. Kohen. That is one of the subject matters of the indictment. 

Mr. Rice. It is one of the things you don't discuss ? 

Mr. Kohen. I believe that you wouldn't. 

Mr. Rice. In any event, whatever this business was, it doesn't relate 
to eating and drinking in there; does it? 

Mr. Kohen. Whatever it is, it isn't. 

The Chairman. All right; let's proceed. 

Mr. Rice. Have you now or ever had an interest in the Royal Palm 
Casino, or the Royal Palm? 

Mr. Kohen. Will you set a date, Mr. Rice ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes; around 1942. 

Mr. Friedlander. May have. I think I did have an interest. 

Mr. Rice. Who was associated with you in that casino ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Mr. Charles Thomas. 

Mr. Rice. Was Charlie Wall in there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. How much of an interest did you have? 

Mr. Friedlander. Very small. 

Mr. Rice. What percent? 

Mr. Friedlander. About 7^2 or 10 percent; I think my returns 
would show ; I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. And who were the other partners ? Charlie Thomas 

M r. Friedlander. Active partners were Charles Thomas and Arthur 
Childers ; possibly Ed Padgett. 



320 ORGANIZED CRIME rN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Who were the inactive partners? Charlie Wall? 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Was George Bowers in this ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. Have you ever been associated with George Bowers in 
anything ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Sure about that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. May have been with George Bowers one year, I 
think I had a very small interest in 115, and the Little Palm. 

Mr. Rice. You can't remember whether you did or not? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I did. 

Mr. Rice. In 115 and the Little Palm? 

Mr. Friedlander. What am I saying ? I am incriminating myself. 

Mr. Kohen. Could we be a little more specific as to the time ? 

Mr. Rice. I will ask if you have had any interest in any joint ven- 
ture, or any joint enterprise, with George Bowers ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Kohen. He said he had an interest in the 115 Club and the 
Little Palm. 

Mr. Rice. Might I ask what those businesses were ? 

Mr. Kohen. We can't answer that. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever hear of the Clearing House ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Rice. What was that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That was a bolita business. 

Mr. Rice. And did you have an interest in that? 

Mr. Friedlander. If you give me a date 

Mr. Rice. Back in 1942. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What type of operation was that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It is a numbers game. 

Mr. Rice. What did it have to do with bolita? Was it a bolita 
bank? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Where did they get the results ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Cuba. Every Saturday. 

Mr. Rice. A Saturday operation. You got the results over the 
radio on Saturday? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. Now, what was the Acme Amusement Co. ? 

Mr. Friedlander. What is the date on that ? 

Mr. Rice. 1942 or 1946. 

Mr. Friedlander. If you have any returns, or if you could refresh 
me a iittle bit, who my partners were 

Mr. Rice. You can't remember the Acme Amusement? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, I don't. 

The Chairman. Were you in that business ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I was. 

The Chairman. Let's pass on to the next one. 

Mr. Rice. How about the ABC News Agency ? They must be some 
of these telephone things you are talking about. 
Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. What is the ABC News? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 321 

Mr. Friedlander. I was a partner in ABC News with Mr. Thomas 
and Mr. Byer. 

Mr. Rice. What business was that ? 

Mr. Kohen. Will you set a date? 

Mr. Rice. 1942. 

Mr. Friedlander. Bookmaking. 

Mr. Rice. Bookmaking? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. . , , 

Mr. Rice. ABC News was bookmaking. How come they picked 
the name ABC News ? T 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. They had that name when 1 got 

Mr. Rice. Who else was in that bookmaking enterprise ? 

Mr' Kohen. In 1942? . 

The Chairman. The same group ; wasnt it i 

Mr Friedlander. Yes ; that is the Little Syndicate. 

Mr Rice. In 1943 what interest did you have m the Clover Club « 

Mr Friedlander. I had an interest. My returns will show 

Mr. Rice. Did you have an interest in the gambling part or the 
other part of the club ? . . 

Mr. Friedlander. We never gambled there when I got in it. 

Mr Rice. No gambling at the Clover Club? 

Mr. Friedlander. When I got in it there never was any gambling. 

Mr. Rice. Just a night club ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. How about the Farm Casino, in 1943 i 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have an interest in that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. What interest did you have m the b arm t 

Mr*. Friedlander. I don't remember the exact interest. 

Mr! Rice. Did you have a percentage? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. Who were some of the other partners in the * arm « 

Mr Friedlander. What is the date on that? 

Mr. Rice. 1943. That has been closed down for several years. 

The Chairman. Frank Erickson ? _ . 

Mr Friedlander. Frank Erickson, I don't remember Frank Erick- 
son. I think Sam Gold. He may have represented somebody but we 
had Sam Gold, and tlie Little Syndicate, of which I was a member. 

The Chairman. Was Frank Erickson? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. Sam Gold. 

Mr. Rice. Gold was fronting for him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I couldn't say. . 

The Chairman. The record does show he had an interest ol some 

Mr Friedlander. I think our records will show that we dealt with 
Sam Gold. They may have filed a partnership return tor their 

interest. 

Mr. Rice. While on the subject of Erickson, did you have any trans- 
actions with Erickson? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever receive any money from him i 



322 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Friedlander. Not that I can remember. 

Mr. Rice You never received any money from Erickson that you 
know or. Can you make it a little more definite than that? Would 
you say that you never received any money from Erickson ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I borrowed some money from him. 

Mr. Rice. You think you borrowed some money from him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Would that be receiving money ? 

Mr. Rice. It would be a transaction ; yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. I borrowed some. 

Mr. Rice. Tell us about the arrangement on that. 

Mr. Friedlander. I gave him a dated check. 

Mr. Rice. You gave him a what? 

Mr. Friedlander. A dated check. I borrowed some money from 
him m September, or August, or July, I don't remember, and gave 
him a check dated February. 

Mr. Rice. A postdated check? 

Mr. Friedlander. Postdated check. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you get together with him to borrow this 
money ? 

Mr. Friedlander. New York City. 

Mr. Rice. How come he would lend you money ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, we have been friends for years. 

Mr. Rice. You have been friends for years ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you put up any security ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; outside of my check. 

Mr. Rice. You paid him back? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Jimmy Carroll in St. Louis, did you ever do business with 
him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How about John Mooney out in St. Louis? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Never heard of him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I have heard of him. 

Mr. Rice. The Sky Club, in 1945, any interest in that? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe I did. 

Mr. Rice. The same syndicate? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, we used to own it and then we sold it, and 
I think I bought it back with my brother; Padgett and Thomas and I, 
and I think possibly one other fellow. 

Mr. Rice. That is your brother Herman ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. My brother's name is Harry. 

Mr. Rice. How about Ray's Cut-Rate Store? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Is that a liquor store? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; it was a cut-rate drug store. 

Mr. Rice. You still have an interest in that? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. What about the Pensacola operations, in 1945 ? 

Mr. Friedlander. 1945. Well, I believe Pensacola is close to Ala- 
bama — is that correct? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 323 

Mr. Friedlander. Some of my partners told me that the Alabama 
fellows were good gamblers, so we sent somebody out there with some 
money and opened up a little game. • 

Mr. Rice. Up in Pensacola, to take care of the action out ot 
Alabama ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice- Who did you send up to Pensacola? 

Mr. Friedlander. I can't remember his name. Big George, they 
called him. I don't remember his last name. 

Mr. Rice. Big George ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How did he make out? 

Mr. Friedlander. We lost. 

Mr. Rice. You lost? 

Mr- Friedlander. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. Rex Package Store; have any interest in that liquor 

store ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I did. 

Mr. Rice. Did your wife have an interest in that, too? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. . 

Mr. Rice. Club 86, did you have an interest in that, with the other 

syndicate boys ? 

Mr- Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What was the 717 operation? 

Mr. Friedlander. What is the date ? 

Mr. Rice. 1945. 

Mr. Friedlander. Gambling house. 

Mr. Rice. Where was that? m 

Mr. Friedlander. 717 Northwest Sixty-some Street, ]ust outside of 
the city limits of Miami. 

Mr. Rice. The Mocambo Club, in 1945 ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Don't remind me about that one. 

Mr. Rice. Why? . 

Mr. Friedlander. Lost my shirt. This was a night club. 

Mr. Rice. How did you lose your shirt? 

Mr. Friedlander. Didn't do any business. 

Mr. Rice. What kind of businesss? 

Mr. Friedlander. Night club business. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have a gambling casino there? 

Mr. Friedlander- No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Was Miller in that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Leser? 

Mr. Friedlander. Lesnick. 

Mr. Rice. Was he in that? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did he lose his shirt, too ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He lost pretty much. 

Mr Rice. How about the— you told me about the Tepee and Little 
Palm' and 115— how about the Trail Agency, 1946 to 1949? 

The Chairman. Let's stay in 1946. ' 

Mr. Frieplander. Trail Agency is, I believe, how we got a hold ot 
some telephones. I think that was one of the deals. In the lepee. 

Mr. Rice. The Tepee is out on the Trail? 



324 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Friedlander. That would be it. That is it. 
Mr. Rice. What was the Trail Agency? 

Mr. Friedlander. That was a medium for getting four or five 
phones from the telephone company. 

Mr. Rice. Where were the phones located ? 
Mr. Friedlander. In back of the Tepee. 
Mr. Rice. They were in back of the Tepee? 
Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. They used that, then, for horse booking? 
Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. The Thirtieth Street Club, 1946. Do you remember the 
Thirtieth Club? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't remember. If you can refresh my memory 
some way. If you have some record I will be glad to tell you. 1 

Mr. Rice. The Tropical Associates, of 1947, 3006 Northwest Twenty- 
seventh Avenue, what was that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. What is the date on that? 
Mr. Rice, 1947. 

Mr. Kohen. That is a little bit too close. 

The Chairman. All right. As to these, from 1947 on, if the ques- 
tion is asked if he had any connection with it, and he says he did, there 
will be no further questions asked about it. 

Do you want to say whether you had any connection ? 
Mr. Kohen. Senator, we did say we did. 

The Chairman. You had connection with the Tropical Associates ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 
The Chairman. Go ahead. 
Mr. Rice, Blackmore Room, Inc. 
Mr. Friedlander. Date? 

Mr. Rice. Any time, did you ever have any interst in that? 
Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 
Mr. Rice. The Club Collins? 
Mr. Friedlander. That is the same thing. 
Mr. Rice'. Same as the Blackmore Room ? 

Mr. Friedlander. The Blackmore Room was downstairs ; the Club 
Collins upstairs. 

Mr. Rice. How about the Miami News Agency ? 
Mr. Friedlander. I don't remember that one. 
Mr. Rice. Don't remember that? 
Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. We have talked about the Island Club, haven't we? 
Mr. Kohe^. We said that we did have a connection with the Island 
Club. That is within the last 2 years. 

Mr. Rice. How about the Bahamas Club, have an interest in the 
Bahamas Club? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 
Mr. Rice. No interest in that? 

Mr. Friedlander. Some friends of mine did, and it was assumed 
that I had an interest with them, but I directly did not have an interest 
in the Bahamas Club. 

Mr. Rice. How would that work, who were these friends ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 325 

Mr Friedlander. Certain friends of mine wanted to get in busi- 
ness in Florida, and, of course, through my knowledge of who to see 
and what to do, they acquired an interest, just for a short while, which 
included the Bahamas Club. 

Mr. Rice. Let's see if I have that straight. You say you had some 
friends that came in and because of your knowledge of who to see and 
what to do— what did they do ? 

Mr. Friedlander. They bought an interest in the Bahamas. 

Mr. Rice. They bought an interest. Who are these friends ?. 

Mr. Friedlander. That is last year, I think, or 2 years ago. I 
would have to stand on my constitutional grounds. 

Mr. Rice. You don't want to name who they are ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean, of your knowledge of who to see and 
what to do, who did you have to see and what did you have to do ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I knew that this particular person who owned 
the Bahamas Club and the Turf wanted to sell either all or part. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. They were strangers in town. They came m and 
asked me what they could do to get into business. 

Mr. Rice. What business ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, any kind of business. 

Mr. Rice. Where did they come from, what part of the country ? 

Mr. Friedlander. The East. 

Mr. Rice. The East. Jersey ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. New York ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; Jersey. 

Mr. Rice. And so they came to see you to see how they could get 
into business ; is that right ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. You fronted for them for a while ; is that it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; I did not. 

The Chairman. You sort of got them get started ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I helped them get in there. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. As a result of that, of your helping them, did you get 
anything for that, did they straighten you up ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It happened to be an unhappy marriage, so 
nobody got anything, except the fellow that sold. He might have 
made a little something. 

Mr. Rice. But the people you interceded for lost out and you didn t 
get anything? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; that is correct. 

The Chairman. But you were to get something ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. What about the Uneeda Vendors ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, it was originally set up as a cigarette 
vending machine business by a couple of fellows, and they got a hold 
of some telephones that way and they also bought some cigarette 
machines. Unfortunately, one of the partners died and that part of 
it was dropped. 

Mr. Rice. They dropped the coin-machine part? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 



326 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Kept the telephone part ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. You had an interest in that, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Not in the cigarette machine vending business. 

Mr. Rice. The telephone part? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. What was the Herman Stark partnership ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, when I got an interest in the Frolics, it 
was my first venture into the night club field, and Herman Stark 
had been the manager of the old Cotton Club in New York City, and 
was a very capable man— — 

Mr. Rice. Speak up a little bit. 

Mr. Friedlander. Herman Stark had been the manager of the 
Cotton Club, a very famous night club in New York City. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. And he was living — he had retired and came to 
Florida — and when I bought into the Frolics I thought it would be a 
good idea to give him an interest, to teach me the night club business. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. Because the Frolics, when we bought it, at the 
time we bought an interest 

Mr. Rice. You brought him in as an expert and backed him finan- 
cially ? 

Mr. Friedlander. At that time the night club part didn't play an 
important part because we had a back room, where we thought we 
might do something. 

Mr. Rice. A back room ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Casino. 

Mr. Rice. A table proposition ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. We never got it opened up that way. 

Mr. Rice. Why not? 

Mr. Friedlander. We just couldn't. 

Mr. Rice. Why not ? 

Mr. Friedlander. The law enforcement was very rigid at the time. 

Mr. Rice. How does it happen that now some operate and some 
don't? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know anything about that. 

Mr. Rice. You don't know anything about that? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What was the Key West operation ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Never had any. 

Mr. Rice. Never had any Key West operation? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. It looks to me like you got some money from the Key 
West operation. 

Mr. Friedlander. If I did, I don't remember it. 

Mr. Rice. You could get money from places you don't remember? 

Mr. Friedlander. It is very unlikely, but I don't think we did. 

Mr. Rice. You do business in Key West ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Don't you go down there sometimes ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Sometimes. 

Mr. Rice. What do you do down there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Fish. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 327 

Mr. Rice. Where do you fish from? 

Mr. Friedlander. Anywhere. 

Mr. Rice. Where do you stay, at the Cabin Marino? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Perkies? ; . 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think I ever stayed m Perkies. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you stay? . . 

Mr. Friedlander. I was there twice or three times m my lite. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you stay when you went there? 

Mr. Friedlander. I really don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. Was it a hotel? 

Mr. Friedlander. It was sort of a motel. 

Mr. Rice. Who did you go with? 

Mr. Friedlander. Harry Russell. m 

Mr. Rice. Harry Russell. When was the last time you were down 
with Harry Russell ? , 

Mr. Friedlander. To my recollection, anywhere between 6 and U 
months ago, maybe a year ago. , 1ftK . ,, ., s 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, it was after July of 1950, wasn t it 5 

Mr. Friedlander. It could have been. _ 

Mr. Rice. When both you and Harry Russell were being sought by 
the committee ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Could have been. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Tell us about that trip, what you all did. 

Mr. Friedlander. Just went fishing. 

Mr. Rice. You knew the committee was looking for you, didnt 

YOU ? 

" Mr. Friedlander. Well, that time I think we had some inkling. 

Mr. Rice. How do you explain your going fishing when you knew 
a Senate committee was looking for you? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I explained that before. 

The Chairman. He said he went down there because he thought we 
were looking for him, he and Harry Russell; that is right, isn't it? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes ; but also the fact that our records had been 
taken, it was very confusing. 

Mr. Rice. You were confused, so you went fishing? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, it would be a good time to go fishing. 

Mr. Rice. What business is Harry Russell in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You went fishing with him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I still don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know where he is from ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Chicago, I think. 

The Chairman. Mr. Friedlander. will you tell us the story, you are 
the one that dealt with him to get into the S. & G. Syndicate, tell 
us how did that come about. 

Mr. Friedlander. I didn't deal with him. 

The Chairman. Do you know how he got in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Only what I read in the papers and what I heard. 

Mr. Kohen. He had nothing to do with Russell. 

The Chairman. You were in Daytona with Harry Russell : he was 
a friend of yours ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 



328 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. What part did you have in him getting into the 
S.&G. Syndicate? 

Mr. Friedlander. None. 

The Chairman. You have known him a long time, haven't you? 

Mr. Friedlander. I would say about a year and a half, 2 years. 

The Chairman. You knew him when he got in the S. & G. Syndi- 
cate ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I knew him at the time he got in, yes, if he got in. 

The Chairman. Did you handle the negotiations with these boys 
to get into the S. & G. ? 

Suppose we have a 5-minute recess. 

(Short recess taken.) 

The Chairman. The present plan is, as far as we know, that we 
will have a hearing tomorrow morning at 10 : 30. In the morning we 
will have the particular matter described as the "come-back" business. 
And we will also have a session tomorrow afternoon at 2 o'clock. 

Now, there are a lot of matters we have asked Mr. Friedlander 
about. There are two central matters and if we can get those matters 
cleared up we will be pretty well through. If we can get those two 
particular matters straightened out, I think we can get through pretty 
shortly. 

I would like to know, Mr. Friedlander, just what part you had in 
getting Harry Russell, or entering negotiations with Harry Russell, 
to get into the S. & G. Syndicate ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I made no negotiations. 

The Chairman. Tell us what you did. 

Mr. Friedlander. I may have advised Sam Cohen that it would be 
good business on the part of the S. & G. to take Russell in. 

The Chairman. What is that now ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I may have advised Sam Cohen, who is a mem- 
ber of the S. & G., that it would be good business on their .part to take 
Russell in. That is as much as I had to do with it. 

The Chairman. Sam Cohen is a brother of Ben Cohen. Sam is 
one of the S. & G. men, allegedly anyway, who got you to do that, 
Mr. Friedlander? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I thought it was good business, because 
everything, was closed at the time. 

The Chairman. The wire was turned off, you mean, everything was 
closed down? 

Mr. Friedlander. Before the wire was closed down. 

The Chairman. Why did you think it would be good business for 
them to get Harry Russell into the S. & G. ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I thought it would be good business, so that 
everybody could go to work. 

The Chairman. Why did you think they could go to work if you 
get him in the S.&G.? 

Mr. Friedlander. Because the town was closed for some mysterious 
reason. 

The Chairman. Now, why did you think it would be opened up if 
Mr. Russell were in the S.&G.? 

Mr. Friedlander. I thought that if peace were made it would be 
a good thing. 

The Chairman. Why did you think peace would be achieved if 
Harry Russell got into the S.&G.? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME EST LNTERSOWrE COMMERCE 329 

Mr. Freedlander. It was a thought of mine. 

The Chairman. You knew that the wire service would come back 
if Harry Eussell got into the S. & G., isn't that it? 

Mr. Freedlander. Anybody would have known. 

The Chairman. Why would anybody have known it? 

Mr. Freedlander. Why was the wire shut down ? I don't know. 

The Chairman. We are asking you. 

Mr. Freedlander. I have no idea. 

The Chairman. Why would anybody know it would open up and 
that peace would be made immediately that Harry Russell got into 
the S. & G., why did you know that I 

Mr. Freedlander. I didn't know it, but I felt it would be good 
business, with whoever did anything to close the town down. 

The Chaerman. You knew from Harry Eussell that he could do 
something about the wire service ? 

Mr. Freedlander. No; I didn't. 

The Chairman. You had a good idea ? 

Mr. Freedlander. I might have had an idea, but I didn't know. 

The Chairman. Anyway, that was the sales point that you put over 
to Sam Cohen, that everything was closed clown, nobody was making 
any money, whereas they used to make a lot of money, and the places 
would be opened up, and peace would be made, and the wire service 
would come back on if they put Harry Russell in the S. & G. ? 

Mr. Freedlander. I wouldn't say anything about wire service being 
put on if Harry Russell came back, but it was my impression that what 
pressure was on in the city would be eliminated if peace was made. 
As far as the wire service, I know nothing about it. 

The Chaerman. You mean that some pressure through Harry Rus- 
sell had been put on, which closed down everything, and that pres- 
sure would be relieved if he were taken in ? 

Mr. Freedlander. It could also be that the S. & G. may have closed 
the city down, too. 

The Chaerman. They hadn't done anything to close it down, had 
they ? Just tell us about it. That is the main point. 

Mr. Freedlander. I really don't know too much about it. I did my 
bit in talking to Sam Cohen. I know nothing about Harry Russell's 
inner workings and S. & G.'s inner workings. 

The Chairman. You knew that he had influence so that if he were 
taken in everything would be all right ? 

Mr. Freedlander. I felt that way ; yes. 

The Chaerman. You felt that way ? 

Mr. Freedlander. Yes. 

The Chaerman. You were closely associated with him, weren't you ? 

Mr. Freedlander. With Russell ? 

The Chaerman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Freedlander. No, sir. 

The Chaerman. You saw him every day or two, didn't you ? 

Mr. Freedlander. No, sir; not at that time. 

The Chairman. But you had been ? 

Mr. Freedlander. Afterward. 

The Chaerman. Afterward you were very close to him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He became a member of the S. & G. ; I became 
quite friendly with him. 



330 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

The Chairman. Now, why did you feel that these raids would stop 
as soon as Russell got in? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. Isn't it a matter of record that 
raids were made and then stopped? 

The Chairman. Raids were made by a fellow by the name of Crosby 
before the cut-off came, that is, before the wire service was cut off. 

Mr. Friedlander. Only on the S. & G. places. 

The Chairman. And then Harry Russell comes in and the raids 
cease. Did you have a good idea that that would happen? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. What did you feel was Russell's "magic" in the 
matter, Mr. Friedlander? I mean, just your own idea about it. After 
all, they cut him in to a big business for $20,000. What did you feel 
his magic was ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Possibly some political magic. 

The Chairman. Political magic. Political magic with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Maybe with Crosby ; I don't know. 

The Chairman. With local people? 

Mr. Friedlander. I really couldn't say. 

The Chairman. With State people? With Crosby? 

Mr. Friedlander. It could have been. 

The Chairman. It could have been ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. As a matter of fact, Crosby, the only political 
magic was Crosby, he is the only one that strikes a familiar note 
with you, there wasn't any particular pressure on the part of the 
sheriff of Dade County to close down the S. & G. or on the part of the 
police of Miami Beach, to close S. & G., and your conclusion would be 
that the political pressure that was doing harm would be removed? 

Mr. Friedlander. That would be my guess. 

The Chairman. And you felt you had good facts to base that on, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I felt that somewhere along the line peace 
had to be made, because the season is very short ; that is the only reason 
why I interceded ; it was an unhealthy condition. 

The Chairman. And you. went over the matter with various people 
in reaching that conclusion, didn't you? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; not necessarily. 

The Chairman. It worked out as you said ? 

Mr. Friedlander. You mean the marriage — yes. 

The Chairman. I mean peace was made when you got them in 

Mr. Friedlander. I didn't get them. 

The Chairman. When he got in peace was made ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. It was proved that it was the logical thing 
to do. 

The Chairman. You were right in your assumption that pressure 
would be taken off, the wire service would start back, and the raids 
would stop and everybody would (be happy, as soon as he got in, and 
then you and he became fast friends. 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't say "fast." We became friends. 

The Chairman. Well, I mean, you saw one another more often. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. You even went down to the Keys fishing together 
as you have said. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX IXTERSTATE COMMERCE 331 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Yes. 

The Chairman. Then you, of course, knew Butsy O'Brien, didn't 

you • -r i • 

Mr. Friedlaxder. Very little, very slightly, but I know him. 

The Chairman. You knew him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. You knew he was in the wire business? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I did. 

The Chairman. And did you discuss this matter with him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir, I did not. 

The Chairman. He is the one that turned the wire off, you know. 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know if he turned it off or not. 

The Chairman. Did you ever meet Crosby \ 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Never saw him? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe I saw him but I didn't meet him. 

The Chairman. Did you know Bill Johnston pretty well? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I have seen him once or twice. 

The Chairman. How about your Chicago friends, Mr. Friedlander. 
Do you know any people connected with the wire service in Chicago \ 

Mr. Friedlander. I know people in Chicago but I don't know it 
they are connected with the wire service or not. 

The Chairman. Well, do you know Kelly \ 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You don't know Tony Accardo ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. . 

The Chairman. Then there was Mr. Kelly's brother with the Illi- 
nois Sports News. 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. A fellow in the Illinois News Service, with the Illi- 
nois News Service, who came to Florida and arranged all the opera- 
tions — what was his name? 

Ms* Friedlander. I don't know. 

The Chairman. You don't know him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. Mr. Rice says his name is John Scanlon. 

Mr. Friedlander. I met Mr. Scanlon once or twice. 

The Chairman. You met him? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And you knew he was in the wire service? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, I didn't. 

The Chairman. You didn't know he was in the wire service? 

Mr. Friedlander. I know Keogh, Butsy O'Brien, I know he was 
in charge of the south Florida end. 

The Chairman. But you did not meet Mr. Scanlon? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I did. 

The Chairman. How about O'Malley, do you remember him, 
Austin O'Malley? 

Mr- Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. You don't remember meeting him? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. Mr. Friedlander, I don't think you have told us 
all that you know about why Harry Russell would furnish the ' magic ' 
to get these things going again. Just tell us all about it. 



332 ORGANIZE© CRIME INI INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Friedlander. I really couldn't. 

The Chairman. You knew that would happen? You guessed 
right? 

Mr. Friedlander. It was a guess that a child could have made. The 
S. & G. had tremendous power and kept going in the face of tremen- 
dous newspaper pressure. All of a sudden they are closed. It was 
common gossip that certain, we will say pressure, was being put on 
the S. & G. And a little 6 -year-old child could have figured out if 
some merger was made that everything would be all right. 

The Chairman. It was common gossip that pressure was being put 
on the S. & G. What kind of pressure ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Political pressure, I imagine. What other pres- 
sure could there be, because they had pretty good control. 

The Chairman. Well, political pressure was being put on the 
S. & G. but wasn't being put on the S. & G. by the sheriff of Dade 
County, was it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think so. 

The Chairman. He was on the S. & G. side, wasn't he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I wouldn't know. 

The Chairman. It wasn't being put on by the chief of police of 
Miami Beach, was it? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

The Chairman. You know it wasn't, because this fellow — what is 
the chiefs name ? 

Mr. Kohen. Simpson Short. 

The Chairman. Short, yes. Short was chief of police at that time. 
He wasn't putting on any pressure, was he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think so. 

The Chairman. Then where was the pressure coming from against 
theS. &G.? 

Mr. Friedlander. I am assuming from Mr. Crosby. 

The Chairman. You knew that to be the truth, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I mean, he had made some moves against the 
S. &G. 

The Chairman. And you figured that by getting Russell in that that 
would be taken care of ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It was common conclusion. 

The Chairman. Common conclusion, everybody understood it? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think so. 

The Chairman. And you then also associated that political pressure 
with the cutting off of the wire service, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. That came as a complete surprise. 

The Chairman. You figured that if that political pressure could 
be removed the wire service would also get into operation ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Naturally. Once they got together, whoever 
cut it off would turn it on. 

The Chairman. But do you think the political pressure and the 
wire service were together ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Possibly. 

The Chairman. Is that your idea? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is my idea. 

The Chairman. That is the assumption you went on? It ap- 
parently worked out that way. 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 



ORGAXIZE'D CRIME IK INTERSTATE COMMERCE 333 

The Chairman-. What did you call Julian Warren about, Mr. Fried- 
lander? 

Mr. Friedlander. I happened to know Julian Warren. Mr. George 
Patton wanted a favor. I told him I knew Julian Warren. So I 
called for George Patton. 

The Chairman. You called him two or three times about that time ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Where was he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Who? 

The Chairman. Julian Warren. 

Mr. Friedlander. I think the office is in 

The Chairman. Jacksonville? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe so. 

The Chairman. He is the brother of the Governor, is he not ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. During this time you were in pretty close touch 
with Mr. Patton, John Patton, were you not? 

Mr. Friedlander. What ? 

The Chairman. You know Mr. John Patton pretty well, don't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. John Patton ? 

The Chairman. Oh, I guess it is George Patton. You know him 
pretty well, don't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Well now, was it some favor that George Patton 
wanted, was that the reason why you called Julian Warren about it? 

Mr. Friedlander. He was looking for some appointment. 

The Chairman. He wanted to be appointed as constable, did he not ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. Why were you interceding for Patton? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, Patton was a friend of mine. 

The Chairman. He got appointed, did he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; he did not. 

The Chairman. He did not? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. He was deputy sheriff, wasn't he? What did 
Julian Warren have to do with it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I thought he could use his influence somewhere. 

The Chairman. Who appoints the constables? 

Mr. Friedlander. The Governor, I guess. 

The Chairman. He can do it, but they are supposed to be elected, 
aren't they? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. He can appoint him, however? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. How about John Patton, do you know him pretty 
well ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir; I don't. 

The Chairman. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I do not. 

The Chairman. You do not know him at all ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did Julian Warren have any part in this cut-off 
matter, you know, of this wire service ? 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 22 



334 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think so; I don't know. 

The Chairman. Did you talk to him about it? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You are sure you did not ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Positive. 

The Chairman. How about Mr. Rush ? 

Mr. P^riedlander. I met him. 

The Chairman. He represented you in some matters, did he not? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe in one. 

The Chairman. What did you talk with him about; did you talk 
with him about this pressure ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; I did not. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Going back to 1944, there was an election campaign for 
sheriff 

The Chairman. Let me ask again : Is there anything else you can 
tell us about this, Mr. Friedlander? I know there is a good deal more 
in the picture. Is there anything else you can tell us about the 
negotiations to get Russell is ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. How many times did you talk with Mr. Cohen 
about it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Possibly three times. 

The Chairman. Did you help negotiate the price ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Was there, as part of that negotiation, something 
about a yacht, the Clara Jo? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know anything about it. 

The Chairman. You don't know how it happened ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir ; I don't. 

The Chairman. You know they got this yacht right after he got 
in? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know anything about it. 

The Chairman. You know the S. & G. bought a yacht? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir; I know ; but I didn't ever know who they 
bought it from until I read it in the papers. 

The Chairman. Yes. Well, you know that Harry Russell and 
Tony Accardo were pretty good friends, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I assumed as much, in view of the fact that he 
came from Chicago. 

The Chairman. You also talked with him about it, didn't you? 

Mr. Friedlander. I talked with who ? 

The Chairman. You talked with Harry Russell about it? 

Mr. Friedlander. About who? 

The Chairman. About his friendship with Tony Accardo. . 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I may have talked to him about any number 
of people. 

The Chairman. Did you talk to him about Jack Guzik? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. You did? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. You knew Jack Guzik and Tony Accardo were 
closely associated with Harry Russell, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Not necessarily. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 335 

The Chairman. And that they were friends ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes ; I might have known that, 

The Chairman. In your calculations, didn't you figure always that 
Tony Accardo and Jack Guzik could maybe use a little influence to 
help things get settled, too? 

Mr. Friedlander. No; I did not come to that conclusion at all. 

The Chairman. On the wire service part of it. 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. Their influence would not do any harm anyway, 

would it? 

Mr. Friedlander. I beg your pardon ? 

The Chairman. I say, their influence would not do you any harm 
in getting the matter straightened out, would it \ 

Mr. Friedlander. I would not know. 

The Chairman. Well now, you had a feeling, didn't you, Mr. Fried- 
lander, that Guzik and Accardo were really the powers behind, or 
the powers along with Harry Russell, didn't you? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; I would not say that. 

The Chairman. But you knew they were associated together? 

Mr. Friedlander. I never did know that. 

The Chairman. But Harry Russell told you as much, didn't he? 

Mr. Friedlander. He toM me that he filed returns with certain 
people for Chicago. It was a complete surprise. I only knew Harry 
Russell a year or a year and a half. 

The Chairman. He filed returns with people in Chicago, and they 
were Accardo and Guzik ; he told you, didn't he? 

Mr. Friedlander. I did not know that. He told me he had a big 
office in Chicago. . . 

The Chairman. He told you also that he was sharing his interests, 
or proposed to share his interest in S. & G. with other people m 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir; he did not. 

The Chairman. You understood that, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No; I did not. 

The Chairman. I mean, he told you that after the thing happened? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir; he did not. 

The Chairman. What was it he said about filing returns with people 
in Chicago? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, when this committee started, and they were 
granted the privilege of examining personal income-tax returns, that 
is when he told me that he had filed from a big office in Chicago, a 
commission office, thev were betting all over the country, and he had 
filed as partners with some of the fellows from Chicago. I don't 
even remember what it was. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Well now, when Sam Cohen consulted with you two or 
three times, what was the argument about, what was the proposition \ 
Why did he consult with you? 

Mr. Friedlander. He did not consult with me : I consulted with him. 

Mr. Rice. What did you consult with him about \ 

Mr. Friedlander. I met him in a restaurant once. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Friedlander. And I told him that I thought that they were 
stubborn and foolish . 



336 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. That he was stubborn? 

Mr. Frtedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. About what ? 

Mr. Friedlander. About not straightening things out so that the 
town could open. There were a lot of people out of work. 

Mr. Rice. What do you mean, straighten out what; what was stop- 
ping him from straightening anything out? 

Mr. Friedlander. Some political pressure I didn't know anything 
about. 

Mr. Rice. What was the proposition Russell was giving Cohen? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. I was not a member of S. & G. 

Mr. Rice. What did Cohen say when you said, "Let's straighten this 
out, let's make peace" ; what did he say, "I cannot do it" ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He said he would not do it. 

Mr. Rice. Why wouldn't he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He would not do it, he said he had partners, and 
they would go along, they would stand the way they were. 

Mr. Rice. What was it he would not want to do, he would not want 
to take Russell in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Possibly it was that. 

Mr. Rice. What did he tell you it was ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He didn't tell me anything. 

Mr. Rice. Did he tell you that Russell was trying to take a piece? 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; he did not say that. 

Mr. Rice. Then what was it? 

Mr. Friedlander. That he was going to stand the way they were, 
and whatever pressure was on, they would get it removed. 

The Chairman. And you pushed him to give up, more or less? 

Mr. Friedlander. I would not say I pushed him. I was, you might 
as well say, a peacemaker. I wanted to see everything get straightened 
out so that things would get moving again. 

Mr. Rice. Did you go to Russell and see what his proposition was? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. You just tried to make peace with one side? 

Mr. Friedlander. It looked like the logical thing to do. I believe 
Mr. Mills is a little bit familiar with the activities in Dade County, 
1 think he is, and he will tell you that I am not too friendly with any 
members of the S. & G. That is common knowledge. 

Mr. Rice. We understand that. We are interested in what Sam told 
you about Russell's proposition. 

Mr. Friedlander. I did not give him no proposition from Russell. 
I told him that whatever forces were keeping things in turmoil, that 
the best thing to do was to try to straighten it out so that things could 
move along. 

Mr. Rice. Where did you find out about these forces? Who told 
you that forces were working? 

Mr. Friedlander. Everybody knew. 

Mr. Rice. Everybody knew ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Who, in particular, told you — was your wire cut off? 

Mr. Friedlander. I am not a bookmaker, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, then, how did you find out about the wire being 
cutoff? 

Mr. Friedlander. Everybody knew it. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 337 

Mr. Rice. And they came to you? 

Mr. Friedlander. "Nobody came to me. 

Mr. Rice. Did you talk to "Butsy" O'Brien about it? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who did you talk to besides Sam? 

Mr. Friedlander. Just Sam. . 

Mr. Rice. You had information before you went to Sam, didn t you i 

Mr. Friedlander. I had no information. 

'Mr. Rice. Well, what caused you to go there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Because everything was closed, and we wanted 

to get it open. 

Mr. Rice. Who wanted it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I did. I had interests that I wanted to get open, 

too. a Q 

Mr. Rice. I see. So, to protect yourself you went to Sam ! 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I thought it made good business for me. 
If you will recall, if you will examine your records, you will find that 
we had the Tepee and the Island Club at the time, and everything was 
shut down on account of this, whatever it was, and I was closed on ac- 
count of certain people squabbling. 

Mr. Rice. This thing \ 

Mr. Friedlander. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr Rice. This thing. Now, whatever this thing was that was 
going on, when you went to Sam he said, "No ; we are going to fight it," 
first, fc didn'the? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. What did he say he was going to do ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He did not tell me. 

Mr. Rice. He just said that he was going to fight? 

Mr. Friedlander. He said, "We have got plenty of money, we will 
wait it out, we will sweat it out." 

Mr Rice. In other words, we will see who is toughest i 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, you can put it that way, but he didn t say 
that they would see who was toughest. 

Mr. Rice. Well, to see who was going to out-muscle who ( 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; he did not say that. 

Mr. Rice. In any event, he was going to hold the line? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Then what happened ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I went along like that for about a week, 
and I ran into him again. 

Mr Rice. Yes ? 

Mr. Friedlander. And I said, "Let's get this trouble over with 

so we can open." 

Mr. Rice. Things were still going on? 

Mr. Friedlander. Things were still closed. 

Mr. Rice. And then what did he say ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It looked like he softened a bit and he said, We 
are talking about it." 

Mr. Rice. Oh, he softened up ? 

Mr. Friedlander. He said that there were five, six, or seven, or I 
don't know how many members of the S. & G., and he intimated that 
they were discussing making some kind of a merger. He didn't tell 
me what the plans were, or how. 



338 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

About a week later, I believe, they got it straightened out and the 
town opened up. 

Mr. Rice. They made a merger? 

Mr. Friedlander. They must have. 

Mr. Rice. Were they happy over that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. Well, they resisted that, didn't they ? 

Mr. Friedlander. They resisted that in the beginning. 

Mr. Rice. But they finally capitulated ? 

Mr. Friedlander. They must have. 

Mr. Rice. They lost so much money, or things got so tough, that 
they got down on their knees and took Harry Russell in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I don't know if they got down on their 
knees, but they merged. That is all I know. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. Back in 1944 there was a campaign for sheriff in Dade 
County ; is that right ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And there were about six candidates, weren't there ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Why, I don't know. In the primary there might 
have been 8 or 10 ; I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. And one of those six was Jimmy Sullivan ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, did you in any way contribute to Sullivan's 
campaign ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I refuse to answer on the ground that it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Rice. This is 1944 now. 

Mr. Kohen- Well, there is an indictment now for bribery, and I 
think we are getting a little too close to the question which might forge 
a link in that chain. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, how about campaign contributions, that is 
what we are talking about, not about bribery. Did you contribute to 
Sullivan's campaign in 1944? 

Mr. Friedlander. I might have. 

The Chairman. I will have to ask you to answer. 

Mr- Friedlander. I might have. 

.Mr. Rice. You may have. Well, now, did you discuss with the 
members of the Little Syndicate who vou felt you should back for 
sheriff in 1944? 

Mr. Friedlander. I might have. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Now, then, what was the result of that discussion? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think we backed Jimmy Sullivan. 

Mr. Rice. You backed Jimmy Sullivan? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. Did you all back Jimmy Sullivan ? 

Mr. Friedlander. In 1944? 

Mr. Rice- Yes ; when there were six in the primary. 

Mr. Friedlander. No ; I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. You think some of you backed somebody else? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, didn't you arrange to partially back 
everyone that was running in the syndicate ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, I don't think so. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 339 

Mr. Rice. Well now, let me pass this on to you and see what you 
nave to say about this : 

I heard at one time that there were six candidates for sheriff, and 
that the Little Syndicate decided they had $30,000 to back the sheriffs, 
the various candidates for sheriff, so they more or less tossed coins 
and each one of them picked a candidate to back, and having $30,000 
they backed each one with $5,000. 

Mr. Friedlander. That is not true. 

Mr. Rice. What do you have to say about that ? 

Mr. Friedlander. What do I have to say about it ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes; and that Friedlander drew Jimmy Sullivan. 

Mr. Friedlander. That is not true. 

Mr. Rice. What is the story ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe we picked what we considered two or 
three of the strongest candidates. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Friedlander. And we threw our support, or our various sup- 
ports, to these three various' candidates. 

Mr. Rice. Well, when you say "we," whom do you mean? 

M'r. Friedlander. The Little Syndicate. 

Mr. Rice. The syndicate? 

Mr. Friedlander. Not the S. & G., let's get that straight. It was 
the Little Syndicate. 

Mr. Rice. That is Padgett, Charlie Thomas, and Yarborough? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. Who else; Cliff Spikes? 

Mr. Friedlander. Who? 

Mr. Rice. Cliff Spikes? 

Mr. Friedlander. Cliff Spikes and Joe Lapop. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, did it happen that you were selected or gam- 
bled and became the one to take care of Jimmy Sullivan? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, it did not happen that way at all. 

Mr. Rice. How was that arranged ? 

Mr. Friedlander. We just picked, I think the candidates we picked 
were Chanstain — I am not sure if that is the name, and Jimmy Sulli- 
van, and one more. Jimmy Sullivan won ; he won for all of us. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, as to the ones you picked, did you apportion 
the money to them equally? 

Mr. Friedlander. I could not remember that. 

Mr. Rice. Or did you back one with more money than the other? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think so. 

Mr. Rice. Well, do you remember if it was even or 

Mr. Friedlander. It must have been even. 

Mr. Rice. It must have been even ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I suppose so. 

Mr. Rice. You kind of insured the bet on that a little bit; didn't 
you? 

The Chairman. Did each one of you, then, take, maybe two of you 
took one man, two took another man, and two another; is that the 
way you did it? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

The Chairman. You just all pooled your interests for the three of 
them? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, sir. 



340 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCEi 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. Do you recall how much it was you contributed to 
Sullivan? 

Mr. Friedlander. I really do not. 

Mr. Rice. Was it more than $5,000? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't think so. I would say it was much less. 

Mr. Rice. How much less? 

Mr. Friedlander. I could not say; it might have been $2,000, it 
could have been almost any amount. 

Mr. Rice. It could have been $2,000 ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And did you give it to him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I did not give it to him at all, I don't think. 'Re- 
member, this is 1944. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. And I cannot remember. 

Mr. Rice. Well, who did you give it to ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't know. 

Mr. Rice. You did not give it to the other candidates ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Me? 

Mr. Rice. The money for Sullivan, you wanted to make sure he 
knew that you were backing him, didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, we possibly gave it to one of his campaign 
managers. 

Mr. Rice. And you let him know that you had done it ; didn't you ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Naturally. 

The Chairman. Who was that candidate manager ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I would not remember, Senator. That was back 
in 1944. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Rice. Was it his wife ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever give any money to his wife ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How about 1948, when he ran? 

Mr. Friedlander. In 1948 ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Did you back him then ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And did the syndicate back him ? 

Mr. Friedlander. The little syndicate ? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. You backed him individually? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. How much did you contribute at that time ? 

Mr. Kohen. Did you give any ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I don't remember how much it might have been. 
I know that we gave him some. 

Mr. Kohen. He made a contribution, but he does not remember how 
much. 

The. Chairman. All right, let's let it go at that. He made a con- 
tribution and does not know how much. 

Jimmy knew how much ; didn't he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I beg your pardon ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 341 

The Chairman. Jimmy knew how much ; didn't he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It was not made directly to him. 

The Chairman. Oh, but it wouldn't do you any good to give it un- 
less he knew that you were giving it ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I imagine he knew; his campaign manager 
would certainly tell him that he received it. 

The Chairman. All right. Do you have anything else, Mr. Rice? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, I would like to ask a general question. 

George Patton made a statement, you remember, to this committee? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. And you have read the statement? 

Mr. Friedlander. I read part of it. 

Mr. Rice. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I read part of it. 

Mr. Rice. Possibly? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, part; only what they reprinted in the Miami 
newspaper. 

Mr. Rice. I see. Now, then, on the parts of the statement that 
you read in the Miami newspaper, was any of that right or was any 
of it wrong ? 

Mr. Kohen. Now, just a minute. That is subject to an indictment 
in our courts as of the present day, and Mr. Friedlander stands in- 
dicted. 

Mr. Rice. What I would like to get is a blanket denial or an ac- 
knowledgment, if possible. 

Mr. Kohen. Well, we refuse to testify to anything based on a state- 
ment given by Patton not in our presence. 

Mr. Rice. You understand that we have certain situations that are 
covered in that, and I would like to get the fact as to whether he 
has any explanation that he wants to offer at this time, or any denial, 
or whether he has anything to say about it. 

Mr. Kohen. Mr. Rice, I think in fairness to Mr. Friedlander, since 
it is the subject of an indictment, and it has happened so recently, 
I think that is a matter you ought to forbear. 

The Chairman. The situation is that Mr. Friedlander is talked 
about a great deal in the Patton statement, and if he wanted to make 
any explanation, denial, or say anything about it, this would be a 
good time for him to do so. 

Mr. Kohen. Would the Senator be satisfied with a general denial 
of any statement that Patton made? 

The Chairman. Well, I don't think that that could be done. 

Mr. Rice. Well, if the witness wants to perjure himself. 

The Chairman. If he wants to say the whole statement is incorrect, 
but if he has not read it all, I don't see how he could. 

Mr. Kohen. Only the part that he read in the newspaper. 

Mr. Friedlander. Mr. Patton appeared before the grand jury in 
Florida, and based on his testimony I was indicted on eight counts 
for bribery. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Friedlander. That would put me in a very bad position. 

The Chairman. It was not solely on his testimony. 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe it was. 

Mr. Kohen. Yes, it was. 



342 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. There were other witnesses appeared before the 
grand jury. 

Mr. Friedlander. No — well, I don't know what happened in the 
grand jury. 

The Chairman. I rely on what Mr. Mills tells me. 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, Mr. Mills certainly knows more than I do. 

The Chairman. Very well. Don't ask about Patton's. statement. 

Mr. Rice. We take it he has no gratuitous statement to make. 

Mr. Kohen. Mr. Rice, we are not here gratuitously. We are here 
on a subpena. 

Mr. Rice. Well, once in a while something comes in gratuitously. 

Mr. Kohen. I understand that it does sometimes. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. I believe there is one thing we would like to ask 
you about, and that is that note that you had with Raymond Craig. 
Tell us about that. 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, that is the deal that those fellows came 
down from Jersey on, 

Mr. Rice. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. And bought, and then they became disgusted. I 
did not mention Raymond Craig; you just did. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. And they became disgusted with the whole deal, 
and Mr. Craig could not return the money, so he gave them a note or 
check, or a series of checks, I don't remember which, and they left town 
and left them in my possession. 

Mr. Rice. They left you with the checks ? 

Mr. Friedlander. For me to collect from the gentlemen in question. 
They were up North ; they went back. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, they were from Philadelphia ; weren't they? 

Mr. Friedlander. No. 

Mr. Rice. Was it from Jersey ? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct, 

Mr. Rice. Well, I don't quite follow you. Craig gave you checks 
to pay them back ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Craig gave them a note, and then later 

Mr. Rice. How much was that for ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I think it was $15,000. 

Mr. Rice. It was $25,000; wasn't it? 

Mr. Friedlander. Maybe it was 25. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Friedlander. Then he made a payment and reduced it to 15, 
but eventually I wound up with three $5,000 checks, or one check for 
$10,000 and one for $5,000. They said, "When the checks come due, 
go and get the money from Craig." 

Mr. Rice. Was that ever completed ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, I believe that later on I returned the checks 
to Mr. Craig, and he gave me some kind of a mortgage that he held on 
some property. I turned around and sold the mortgage at a little bit 
of a loss, and gave the fellows the money. 

Mr. Rice. So, so far as you are concerned, Craig is paid out and 
that matter is satisfied? 

Mr. Friedlander. That is correct. 

Mr. Rice. And they have gone back up there ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME m INTERSTATE COMMERCE 343 

Mr. Friedlander. I beg your pardon? 

Mr. Rice. They returned to New Jersey? 

Mr. Friedlander. A way back. The confusion there about Phila- 
delphia was because one of the fellow's names was Weisberg, and 
there is a Weisberg in Philadelphia. 

Mr. Rice. Willie Weisberg? 

Mr. Friedlander. This is Aaron Weisberg. 

Mr. Rice. I see. 

Mr. Friedlander. I believe Mr. Craig will verify that. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know Willie Weisberg from Philadelphia I 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Rice. What transactions did you have with him ! 

Mr. Friedlander. None. 

Mr. Rice. Do you know "Nig" Rosen ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Rice. Down in Florida ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Well, they have not been there this year, but— 1 
mean, they used to come every winter. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have any transactions with Nig ? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, sir. ■ 

Mr. Rice. When did you know "Nig" Rosen? Did you know him 

in Jersey? . 

Mr. Friedlander. I think I knew him from Jersey. 

Mr. Rice. Did you know him through Longy? 

Mr. Friedlander. Possibly. 

Mr. Rice. Did you see Longy and "Nig" together? 

Mr. Friedlander. No, I never did. 

Mr. Rice. What business was Rosen in ? 

Mr. Friedlander. I would not know. 

Mr. Rice. He is in the dress business ; isn't he ? 

Mr. Friedlander. It could be ; I don't know. 

(At this point there was certain matter had in executive session, 
after which the following proceedings were had :) 

The Chairman. Now, where is Sam "Game Boy" Miller; do you 
know ? 

Mr. Friedlander. Where is he? 

The Chairman. Yes. p . 

Mr. Friedlander. The last I saw him, he was m Florida. 

The Chairman. You saw him recently; didn't you? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes, I did. < 

The Chairman. Well, we have been looking for him at Cleveland, 
Ohio. We have a subpena out for him. Have you seen him within 
the last few days I . . 

Mr. Frieldander. T think I saw him last week m i* lorida. 

The Chairman. On Pine Street? 

Mr. Friedlander. On Pinetree Drive. 

The Chairman. On Pinetree Drive? . 

Mr. Friedlander. On Pinetree Drive. I won't say that I saw him 
on Pinetree Drive. . 

The Chairman. Well, we have subpenas out for him m * lorida, Las 
Vegas, and we have turned his name over to the Sergeant at Arms in 
the Senate, and everybody is looking for him. 

Have you talked with him about him being wanted to appear at 
Cleveland? 



344 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 

Mr. Friedlander. I read in the paper that he was wanted in 
Cleveland; I believe it was in the Miami papers. 

The Chairman. You read that in the Miami papers? 

Mr. Friedlander. Yes. 

The Chairman. So I guess he knows, all right. 

Is there anything else before we recess? 

What time does your plane leave? 

Mr. Koiien. Nine o'clock. We have not had any lunch or dinner, 
Senator. 

The Chairman. Well, all right. 

Mr. Friedlander, I want it understood that you will remain under 
subpena, and that you will respond to any call of the committee, in 
case we want you again. We feel, then, that we can notify either Mr. 
Kohen or you, and you will be here ? 

Mr. Kohen. You can notify me, and if you will give us 24 hours, 
we would appreciate it. 

The Chairman. All right, sir. 

Mr. Kohen. We will come to any place that you say. 

Mr. Rice. Let us have one of your cards, Mr. Kohen. 

Mr. Kohen. Yes. I do not have a card, but I will give you the 
information. 

The Chairman. Then let the record show that the committee, by a 
resolution of the full committee, authorized the holding of hearings 
today by a subcommittee of one, and that the chairman designated 
himself as a subcommittee of one to hold the hearings this afternoon. 

The hearings will stand in recess until 10 : 30 o'clock in the morning. 

(Whereupon, at 7 p. m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene on 
Saturday, February 17, 1951, at 10: 30 a. m.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee to Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 : 35 a. m., in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Estes Kef auver (chairman) presiding. 

Present : Senators Kef auver and Tobey. -.tit 

Also present: Downey Rice, George S. Robinson, and John L,. 
Burling, associate counsel. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. Is Mr. Cul- 
breath from Florida here % 

(No response.) . 

(Whereupon, the committee heard the testimony of Richard Remer, 
Miami Beach, Fla. ; Fred Cogan, New Orleans, La. ; Louis Rosenbaum, 
Cincinnati, Ohio; Joseph Uvanni, Rome, N. Y.; and John Doyle, 
Gary, Ind.; which testimony is included in pt. 12 of the hearings of 

•f-l-jp COlTIIlllttGB ) 

Senator Hunt. Sheriff Culbreath, will you take the stand, please. 

The committee will come to order. Sheriff Culbreath, our counsel 
has -some additional questions he wanted to ask you and that is the 
reason for your being asked to come to Washington today and we will 
proceed with the questioning at this time. 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF HUGH L. CULBREATH, SHERIFF OF HILLS- 
BOROUGH COUNTY, FLA., ACCOMPANIED BY WILLIAM C. PIERCE, 
ATTORNEY, TAMPA, FLA. 

Mr Rice. Let the record show that Mr. Pierce is here with us again. 
I think it probably would be wise, Mr. Chairman, to review briefly 
the testimony down in Tampa, concerning Sheriff Culbreath, for 
the benefit of Senator Tobey. 

I will run through it, Sheriff and Mr. Pierce, and if I say anything 
wrong, why, pleasa correct me. 

The sheriff indicated, I believe, he was bom m 189 1 and had 2 years 
at the University of Georgia. He served in the Army in World War I. 

On that, Sheriff, were you at Georgia before or after you were m 
World War I? 

Mr. Culbreath. Before. 

Mr. Rice. Before? Yes. 

Now, after his release from the Army he became employed as a 
salesman for a meat company. He worked there until about 1929, 
when he became a deputy sheriff of Hillsborough County under 
Sheriff Hatton, is that correct? 

345 



346 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. I think Hatton was removed from office, was he not, 
Sheriff, and you went back to the meat business? 
Mr. Culbreath. That is correct, 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, in 1932 you became constable in the same 
county, Hillsborough County. 

Mr. Pierce. Mr. Rice, I believe he was elected in 1932 and took 
office in 1933. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. Was he appointed the first time? 
Mr. Pierce. No ; he ran in 1932 in the primaries of the spring of 
1932, and was elected in the general elections during the fall of 1932 
and took office in January 1933. 
Mr. Rice. As constable? 
Mr. Pierce. That is right, 

Mr. Rice. He continued in that capacity as meat salesman and had 
two jobs more or less during that period. He indicated he sold meat 
in the daytime and worked as constable at night. 

Now, I believe he said that his income from his job durino- that 
time was around $7,500 a year as constable, and that up until 1940 he 
filed no income-tax returns because he was an official, is that right I 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes. During that period we did not file income- 
tax reports, that is, the officials, State and county, did not, 

Mr. Rice. He also operated for several years a fishing business in 
which he had several fishing vessels out in the area, and received 
income from that source. He was in business with Joe Buell and Alec 
Jones, both of them now dead. 
Mr. Culrreatii. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. In 1941 he was elected sheriff of Hillsborough County 
and has remained in that capacity to date. 

His salary for that job ran at $7,500 per year until 2 years ago, when 
it was raised to what? 

Mr. Culbreath. It has not been raised. 
Mr. Rice. It is still $7,500? 
Mr. Culbreath. That is correct. • 

Mr. Rice. Now, shortly after his election as sheriff in 1941 the 
sheriff reentered the Army and during the years 1942, 1943, and 1944 
he was on leave of absence from the sheriff's office, and he served in 
the Army at Waycross, Ga., and I believe, near Punta Gorda, were 
you not, started at MacDill. 

Mi\ Culbreath. I was at MacDill, the Army Air Base, Wavcross, 
and Quantico. 
Mr. Rice. That is right. 

Mr Pierce. Mr. Rice, you mentioned 3 years there, but I believe 
the elapsed time after he reentered the service was 2 vears- it was 
part of 2 years and all 

* Ml \.? X ^ P u 5 in S th ° s ? years I seem to recall his income dropped 
from $7,500 to the neighborhood of $4,600 or $4,800 per annum, is 
that correct, at least from the tax returns ? 

t ¥i' Cul b reath - I think then, Mr. Rice, also made a deduction— 
a/t n0t allow f or tne f ami ly allowance and subsistence, 

* \£^ E - Now ' then, we went over your accumulations of assets 
from 1940 up until date, we had in the neighborhood of $100,000 in 
either bank accounts or property purchased since 1940, and we had 
somewhere in the neighborhood of $36,000 reported income 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 347 

I believe you called in from your safe deposit box in your home 
that you had some $1,800 in cash there, and we left one box un- 
accounted for in the bank there. 

Have you checked that now, Sheriff, and do you know now what 
was in that box ? 

Mr. Culbreath. In the bank? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. • 

Mr. Culbreath. No. I reported that down there, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. I cannot hear you, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. I reported that there, didn't I? 

Mr. Rice. No, you said you did not know what was in that box. I 

could be wrong. 

Mr. Culbreath. In the bank ? I think I reported some cash there ; 
I don't remember the exact amount. 

Mr. Rice. Three or four hundred dollars ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I see. Now, then, going back to the time you left the 
Army and became employed by Armour & Co., what did you earn 
then ? You were a beef cooler, I believe you said. 

Mr. Culbreath. When I started with Armour & Co., yes, I was in 
the cooler there. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. I believe it was $25, but I am 
not sure. 

Mr. Rice. It was around $15, $25 a week? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. That is when I first started back to work 
in 



Mr. Rice. And you went from there to the St. Louis Independent 
Packing Co. ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Xo, I traveled for them before I went to bt. Louis ; 
I also shipped ; I was on the shipping desk and I traveled for them. 

Mr. Rice. Where were your headquarters when you worked for the 
St. Louis Packing Co. ? 

Mr. Culbreath. In Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. In Tampa ? 

Now, then, what were your average weekly earnings for the St. 
Louis Independent Packing Co.? 

Mr. Culbreath. I testified to that, I believe, but there is no way 
for me to give you an accurate check on that because it was, as I 
testified, a commission basis. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, you indicated that you thought you made somewhere 
between $10,000 and $12,000 a year. 

Mr. Culbreath. Some years I made over $10,000. 

Mr. Rice. Since talking to you down there, there have been a number 
of letters and other sources of information coming to the committee, 
and people like your grocer and what not, who said that the largest 
check they ever saw you cash from any source of income was $35 a 
week. 

Mr. Culbreath. If anyone wrote you anything like that they 
falsified. 

Mr. Rice. They falsified? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. That is, that may have been all they saw, but 
not as a salary check. They did not see anything like tjiat from me, 



348 ORGANIZE© C'RTME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever draw a check from the St. Louis Packing 
Co. larger than $35 ? to 

Mr. Culbreath. Why, certainly ; I never drew one that small. 

Mr. Rice. You never drew one that small ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Then you went from the job that was paying 
you m the neighborhood of $15, $20, $25 a week to something that paid 
ten or twelve thousand dollars a year did you not? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it reached that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, what became of that job? You left that? 

Mr. Culbreath. I left that job. 

Mr. Rice. You left that job and you took one that paid you a top 
salary of $7,500 as constable? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, that job, of course I stated a moment ago, 
was a commission job, and the commission didn't stay up at the peak 
all the time. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

What was the minimum ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Then when it dropped off, when the business got 
poorer and then I got a job, I don't know, I just wanted— I figured a 
way that I could handle the constable's job, a political job, along with 
the other job, so I wanted to keep the income, and I decided to run for 
constable. 

Mr. Rice. All right. So that it did not look to you like you were 
going to make that ten or twelve thousand, did it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I wouldn't say that I was not going to make 
it any more. 

Mr. Rice. All right. Now, during the time that you were making 
this ten or twelve thousand dollars a year, did you pay income tax on 
that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You filed a return on that. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. When I was working at St. Louis, I am quite posi- 
tive I did. 

Mr. Rice. Then when did you stop filing tax returns? 

Mr. Culbreath. When I was elected to public office. 

Mr. Rice. When you were elected ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. And that was in 1931 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, 1931, 1932. 

Mr. Rice. Is it fair to say then that from 1931 until 1940 you filed 
no tax returns? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't think there was any filed, not during 
that period as a constable up to about 1939 or 1940. As I testified 
down there, that whenever there was some order 

Mr. Rice. Yes, I understood. So you filed a return ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When was it that you were in this fishing business? 

Mr. Culbreath. I got in that, well, it really started back in, maybe, 
in the twenties, but 

Mr. Rice. When did vou s^ out of it ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 349 

Mr. Culbreath. I got out of it when I was elected to the sheriff's 
office. 

Mr. Rice. That was in 1940 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. 1941. 

Mr. Rice. So you were receiving some income from this fashing 
business between the years 1930 and 1940 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes ; in the years 1933, 1934, and 1935. 

Mr. Rice. What did you do about filing a tax on that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, there was none filed on that. 

Mr. Rice. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. So you just did not file any during that time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is what I testified. 

Mr. Rice. What was your reason about that again ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I said because the public officials did not file in- 
come-tax reports, and I had become a public official; I just did not 

file any. 

Senator Tobet. You are speaking now of Federal income-tax re- 
ports ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Returns, in other words ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. You say the public officials were not required to 
file them? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not down in that State, they didn t. 

Senator Tobey. Well, you are speaking of the Federal tax returns 
or the State tax returns? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am talking about Federal returns. You won t 
find any circuit judge or county judge or county commissioners, clerks 
of the courts, sheriffs, constables, any of them, that filed— mayors. 

Senator Tobey. Well, let us get this right : This money that came 
in as income on the side, all of it 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it came in from the fishing business ; yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Yes ; and you mean to tell us that you are stating 
that the Federal law did not require you to file income-tax returns 
covering your earnings from the fishing business ? . 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I did not tell you that, Senator, sir. I did 
not understand it as being the law when I was elected there— I knew 
very little about it, and I was informed or told that public officials 
didn't file income-tax reports, and I did not file them. 

Senator Tobey. Who told you that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, someone down there, I don't recall who, 
someone. 

Senator Tobey. You just take a happenstance conversation about a 
thing like that, is that what you did, or did you go to the authorities 
and ask them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it was universal; they all followed the same 
system down there. 

Senator Tobey. All right. The Federal Income Tax Department, 
did they ever come to you and ask you why you did not file? Have 
you ever heard from them about that lapse in your filing? 

Mr. Culbreath. I may have ; I don't recall. 

Senator Tobey. You would know if you did, would you not? 

6S95S — 51— pt. la 23 



350 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't know, sir ; no, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Yon do not remember their ever doing it? 

Mr. Culbreath. They could have, but I don't remember. 

Senator Tobey. If they came to you, it is certainly not one of the 
light things in a man's life when a Federal income tax collector comes 
around and says, "Look here, John Smith, why didn't you file an 
income-tax return for 5 years?" That is a usual thing in your life, 
is it, so that you would not remember it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I don't remember it ; no, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Then on the face of your testimony you owe the 
Government a good deal of money, do you not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would say so ; yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Have you taken any steps to make restitution to the 
Government ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have. 

Senator Tobey. What have you done ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have gone back and made amended returns. 

Senator Tobey. Have you paid them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I have. 

Senator Tobey. What was the total amount ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well it runs about $1,500 to date. 

Senator Tobey. Fifteen hundred dollars altogether for those. 9 
years ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. What is the total income that you took in during 
those 9 years ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I paid a tax on, I think it is $8,300, or $8,500 
a year. 

Senator Tobey. And altogether you only paid $1,500 to the Gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr Culbreath. Well, that is the first tax. I don't know if there 
would be any additional penalties or not. 

Senator Tobey. Have they ever given you a clean bill of health for 
those 9 years? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Senator Tobey. It is still pending, is it not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. How long ago did you do this ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I did it since the hearing in Tampa 

Senator Tobey. Since what? 

Mr. Culbreath. Since the hearing in Tampa. 

Senator Tobey. I see Would you have done it if we had not had 
the hearings m Tampa ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would not have known to do it 

Senator Tobey. Well all the years you went along cozy in the 
knowledge of the fact that you did not pay an income tax while the 
lest of us did, you were evading a tax on somebody's just telling you 
you did not have to pay a tax, is that it ? to y 

Sfc V UL S? EATH * J did n0t pay ifc ' Senator ; that is the truth of it. 

senator I obey. Now you are paying it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. And the $1,500 are the first installment? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 351 

Senator Tobet. You realize, of course, when you did not pay the 
tax that all the rest of the 150,000,000 people had to take up your 
slack, did they not, to run this Government? •- _ 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I am making amends the best I can. 1 am 
going to pay my part. . 

Senator Tobey. That is one thing this crime committee has done, 

made you pay this tax. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. 

Senator Tobey. That is to their everlasting credit. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. What about the other gentry m Hillsborough, the 
other patriots there, did they pay a tax ? 

Mr. Culbreath. All over the State. 

Senator Tobey. All over the State they did not pay taxes is that 

right ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Not public officials ; no, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Have you called that to the attention of the Internal 
Revenue Department? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it has been in the press. 

Senator Tobey. Had you talked to them about it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Don't you think you ought to have said, "There" 
are thousands more like me who are immune, and you would have a 
harvest there" ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I am sure the publicity that was given to it when 
the committee was there was such that the internal revenue people 
knew about it. 

Senator Tobey. Well, you sat back pretty smugly for 9 years and 
said, "Well, it is a pretty good laugh; I don't pay any tax while 
everybody else does." That is what you did, did you not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I didn't feel, sir 

Senator Tobey. You did not feel any conscientious spur on your part 
that you were getting by in disregard of the law ? Oh, you sit there 
smugly and pass this dope up to me for a minute. I don't believe yon 
thought to pay a tax, and you thought you would try to get by with it,, 
and they picked you up on it, and this is only the beginning. 

Let me ask you a question : You have been sheriff there, have you not ?. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. And there has been wide-open gambling going on 
in your jurisdiction? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Did you close up every gambling house that came 
to your attention while you were sheriff? 

Mr. Culbreath. Senator, there is not a gambling house in my 
county. 

Senator Tobey. Well, leaving anything else aside, any other gam- 
bling activity, do you close them up freely and courageously? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. There is no gambling house and has been: 
none since I have been sheriff. 

Senator Tobey. What about Bolita ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; that is a special numbers game that they 
are still making; they sell it in most every city in the United States- 
Senator Tobey. What are you doing about it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Sir? 



352 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE! 

Senator Tobey. What are you doing about it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, my record shows that I have taken to criminal 
court for prosecution 199 cases. 

Senator Tobey. How many didn't you prosecute? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, just a moment, please, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. Against 33 for my predecessors for the same period 
of time. 

Senator Tobey. Your predecessor was kicked out of office, was 
he not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. One of them was defeated by me. 

Senator Tobey. What happened to him? 

Mr. Culbreath. I defeated him. 

Senator Tobey. You defeated him? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. So your ratio has improved since he left office. How 
many will the next fellow prosecute after you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That I don't know. 

Senator Tobey. Is there a lot of fallow ground to cultivate down 
there? 

Mr. Culbreath. I know in my county, Senator, the way they do 
the numbers business down there, they just walk up and sell you, or 
take your money or use a telephone and telephone somewhere; they 
don't give you a receipt or give you a paper or anything. That is the 
way 90 or 98 percent of it is done. 

Senator Tobey. Well, if you were to face your Maker tonight 
could you say in all clear conscience that "I, as a sheriff of Hills- 
borough County have enforced the law to the best of my ability, with- 
out fear or favor?" 

Mr. Culbreath. I certainly could. 

Mr. Rice. When did you work for Jacob Decker ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't give you the dates on that. 

Mr. Rice. You told us before that you worked from 1929 to 1934 
for Decker, at eight or nine thousand dollars a year. 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember the dates in there, Mr. Rice. 
You know 

Mr. Rice. It was after you became constable? 

Mr. Culbreath. The dates are confused. I have too much time in 
there and unless I can go back and get the figures, I can't give you 
the exact time. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to change your testimony ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I don't want to change my testimony. 

Mr. Rice. What do you want to say about your working for Decker ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I just can't tell you anything different without 
checking the record or getting a record somewhere ; I don't want to 
misquote it to you. 

Mr. Rice. Wliat record do you want to check ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Any record I could get from Decker to show the 
time I was there. 

Mr. Rice. You do not have any records yourself ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I don't have any records. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, were you ever indicted ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. What was that for? 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 353 

Mr Culbreath. Well, that is when I was a constable, along with 
the sheriff and other county officials, county solicitor and all. 

Mr Rice. With the county solicitor? Was that 19ob i 

Mr'. Culbreath. I think the solicitor— I think they were all in- 
dicted, but we were not prosecuted. That was — — 

Mr. 'Rice. What were you charged with, bhentt « 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I imagine that was misfeasance, malfeasance 

n Mi- C RicE And didn't J. Rex Farrior— he is the State's attorney, 
is he not— didn't he send a telegram to the Governor on April 4, 
1948 requesting that the Governor remove you and certain other law- 
enforcement officers and replace them with "honest and courageous 
men" not politically entangled? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would not remember that. 

Mr. Rice. You do not remember that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I know that didn't happen. 

Mr. Rice. That did not happen ? 

Mr Culbreath. That is, I know that I was not removed from office. 

Mr Rice. Yes. What happened, did they whitewash it i 

Mr Culbreath. I would not say that it was whitewashed. 1 think 
thev brought in an outside State attorney and an outside judge, and 
the State attorney nolle prossed some cases and some of them was 
tried and acquitted. „ 

Mr. Rice. Do you have a deputy by the name of K. C. Myers « 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. A good friend of yours? 

Mr Culbreath. Yes; he is. I consider all my deputies friends 

Mr. Rice. As a matter of fact, he is one of your closest friends, is he 

a °Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. I don't make my closest friends within 
the organization. ■ - , 

Mr. Rice. In the office he is one of the closest deputies to you i 

M r Culbreath. Well, he is no closer than several others. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, according to our records Joe Arias— do you 
know him ? 

Mr. Cuibreath. Who? 

Mr. Rice. Tampa Joe, Joe Arias. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the one called Port Tampa Joe i 

Mr. Rice. Yes. . 

Mr. Pierce. I believe there are two more or less prominently known 
Latins in Tampa named „ . , xl rr- 

Mr. Rice. There is a fellow that I am talking about at the 1m 

House. 

Mr. Pierce. Another one owned the ice house. 

Mr. Rice. Over at the Tin House. 

Mr. Culbreath. The one I know is a cigar picker. 

Mr. Rice. There are three brothers. Is that the one with the three 

brothers? , . ,. . 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't know whether there are any brothers ; he 

has one brother. 

Mr. Rice. Well, he works at the cigar company. 
Mr. Culbreath. Some cigar factory ; he is a picker. 



354 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. Port Tampa Joe; Joe Arias. Didn't you know he was 
paying $50 to $75 a month for Bolita running at the Tin House to 
your deputy, Myers ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. Knowing Port Tampa Joe as I do I would 
not believe him under oath, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. You would not believe him ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Even if he told you 

Mr. Culbreath. Not on anything. I have known him too long, 
because I am not sure that he is — well, I don't know whether his mother 
is living or not, whether he ever became an American citizen. 

Mr. Rice. Suppose Port Tampa Joe came to you and said he was 
paying K. C. Myers $50 or $75 a month protection money ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would investigate it, and if I found it true I 
would fire K. C. Myers. 

Mr. Rice. I think the thing to do is to get together with Joe. 

Mr. Culbreath. I would be glad to. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever get any money from the Tin House? 

Mr. Culbreath. Me? 

Mr. Rice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; not a nickel. 

Mr. Rice. Well, didn't Port Tampa Joe support you in the election? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You are sure about that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did he support someone else ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Who did he support? 

Mr. Culbreath. I imagine he supported my opponent. 

Mr. Rice. What is his name ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, there were about five of them in the first race. 

Mr. Rice. How about the first election ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, that was 10 years ago ; I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. It would seem to me he supported you when you ran for 
constable. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, now, as I ran for constable, he may have. I 
would not say he didn't, then. I thought you said sheriff. 

Mr. Rice. Port Tampa Joe, did he ever visit at your house? 

Mr. Culbreath. Never that I can recall, never. 

Mr. Rice. Do you want to make it a little stronger and say that you 
will deny that he ever visited you at your house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would not make that statement, Mr. Rice, because 
as sheriff, many times people of different caliber will come to you to 
get someone out of jail, or get this, or try to do something. They come 
to see you and you can't just build a fence around and tell them you 
can't do it. 

Mr. Rice. All kinds of people come to your house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Sir? 

Mr. Rice. All kinds of people come ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, all kinds. 

Mr. Rice. What about Port Tampa Joe ? Did he ever come to your 
house? 

Mr. Culbreath. If he ever came there, I don't remember it. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 355 

Senator Tobey. Senator Hunt just pointed out, to digress for just 
a few minutes, has pointed out to me on the compilation of your 
records here, on data which we received from you, in the year 1941 
amount deposited in the banks is nil, zero, but your total income in 
that year reported to the United States was $11,419. Where did you 
keep that money ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Senator, back in Florida about 1924, 1925, the 

banks started failing. 

Senator Tobey. This is 1941. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; that is right. They started failing about 
that time, and most people in Florida started taking their money, or 
what money they made, if they could get it, they kept it out of the 
banks. 

Senator Tobey. Is that the reason you did it? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Where did you keep the $11,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. I kept money in a safe at home. 

Senator Tobey. Where was the safe ? 

Mr. Culbreath. At home. 

Senator Tobey. At home ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. But vou had a change in heart, because m 1 942, from 
then on, you have deposited money in the bank. What made the dis- 
tinction between 1941 and 1942? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, later on the Government insured the accounts 
stronger. 

Senator Tobey. That is much before 1942. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, there are still a lot of people down there that 
are afraid of banks yet, lots of them. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

Coming down to 1940, when vou went into office, you produced 
a bond application in which vou stated that you had household goods, 
cash, and bonds, totaling $30,000. Do you want to change your testi- 
mony on that point any ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. I testified that— and I have witnesses to 
substantiate it— that I first refused to make any statement or give 
them any statement, financial statement, so finally this attorney says, 
"Well, give them enough to cover the bond, to make the bond sufficient," 
and from even in my office, when we take bonds for a person's bond, 
we only want the bondsman to have enough property to cover the 

Mr. Rice. I understood that before. I asked you if you wanted to 
change that. That is what you said before. 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, do you want to give us the exact figure that 
you had in 1940 ? m 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir; I can't give you any better figure than 1 

save 

Mr. Rice. What is the best figure that you want to give now as to 

your total net assets in 1940? , 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I had considerably more than that; it would 

only be an estimate. I can't give you a concrete figure. 

Mr. Rice. Yes, but do not get in too deep. Remember, you lost a 

house back there in the thirties. 



356 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes; I explained that, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You could not pay the mortgage. 

Mr. Culbreatii. That was not it. 

Mr. Rice. Yes? 

Mr. Culbreath. I explained that to you. 

Mr. Rice. You do not want to come on too fast. You remember 
losing a house? 

Mr. Culbreatii. I explained that house deal to you. You see, that 
same house sold later for less than $5,000. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. And why pay $13,000 or $14,000 for it? 

Mr. Rice. That was in the middle thirties, if I remember correctly; 
and by 1910, you had $30,000 saved up? 

Mr. Culbreath. Had how much? 

Mr. Rice. You said you had $30,000. 

Mr. Culbreath. I had more than that. 

Mr. Rice. How much more than that did you have ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I said a moment ago that I was willing to 
give you a figure, but I would not make it a concrete figure. 

Mr. Rice. Well, how much did you tell the tax people when you 
settled up with them here in the last couple of weeks that you made 
during the 10 years that you did not pay taxes? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I filed income-tax reports, I think it was, 
$8,300 a year. 

Mr. Rice. $8,300 a year? 

Mr. Culbreath. $8,300; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. So you gave yourself a ceiling of $8,300 a year for the 
10 years? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think that is right; either $8,300 or $8,500. 

Mr. Rice. Now, this included your salary as constable? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. This was over your salary as constable ? 

Mr. Culbreath. And that was stated so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Where did the $8,300 a year come from, Sheriff? 

Mr. Culbreath. It came from the fishing industry that I explained 
to you, at Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. This fishing business? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. We have gone over your records that you produced, a 
little bit, and the testimony, and let us see if this is a fair picture of 
your position for 1940 on, as to your acquisitions. 

Now, before, your total before 1941, you had a home, and two lots, 
for which you paid $3,250; three lots, one of which was a cemetery 
lot which was worth $500; furniture which you rated at about $3,000; 
that was $6,750, before 1941. 

Now, then, you became sheriff in 1941, and in that year you acquired 
and still hold property for which you paid $1,705. You were in the 
Army from 1942 to 1944, and you bought no property during that 
time. 

In 1944 you acquired real property for which you. paid $4,325. 

In 1945 you bought real property which cost you $18,500. 

In 1946 you bought more property which cost $14,750. I don't 
think you bought any in 1947. But in 1948 you bought property 
which cost $1,250. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE. 357 

In 1049 yon bought $5,000 worth of property. 

You had war bonds on hand of $6,500; you had a safe deposit box 
in the Exchange National Bank with $360. You had a bank account 
in Waycross, Ga., with $9,500 in cash in it; you had a bank account 
at Punta Gorda, Fla., with $8,500 in cash; you had an account m 
the Exchange National Bank of Tampa with $1,351.94; you had 
an account in the Marine National Bank of Tampa with $1,352.66; 
and you had an account in the First National Bank at Tampa with 
$12,724.02; in the Florida National Bank at St. Petersburg you had 
$10^200; and the safe at your home you had $1,805; and in your 
pockets vou had $300, making a total of $104,972.62. 

Those are your assets at the time you. testified, is that right ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I presume so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Presume so ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if those are the figures, they are the same 
figures that you put down, and I will have to accept them as right. 
^Mr Rice. Do you have any other bank accounts besides that ? 

The Chairman. Show him the list, Mr. Rice. Let us see if 
there is any part of it that he does not agree with. 

Mr. Rice (showing witness the document). Is there any dispute 
about that, Mr. Culbreath? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I can't dispute it. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. We will take it as being all of your assets 
at the time you. testified ? 

Now, did you have any other bank accounts ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No other bank accounts ; no, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have a bank account in Chicago ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; you asked me that. 

Mr. Rice. Did you ever have a bank account there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Never had one there ; no, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Never had one ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did anybody in your family ever have a bank account 
there that you know of ? 

Mr. Pierce. Do you have a copy of that recapitulation ? 

The Chairman. * You can have this one. 

Mr. Pierce. We submitted to the committee in Tampa the compi- 
lation that Mr. Rice is using. 

Mr. Rice. That is filed as an exhibit. 

Mr. Pierce. By inadvertence we submitted every copy we had. 
I think you gave us back one copy during the hearing, and it seems 
that the sheriff left that in Tampa. 

Mr. Rice. AVhat was that compiled from, Counsel? 

Mr. Pierce. It was compiled from bank records and balances of 
the banks, compiled from original deeds that were recorded, showing 
the documentary stamps on them, which reflected the purchase price, 
and from other available data, all of which were submitted in con- 
nection with the compilation. 

Mr. Rice. Well,' we will be glad to make available a copy of that 
for you. Counsel. 

Mr. Pierce. All right. 

The Chairman. At this point let the record show that the chair- 
man is presiding, and has designated himself as a committee of one 
to hold this hearing. 



358 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Go ahead, Mr. Rice. 

Mr. Rice. Now, at the time you responded to the subpena duces 
tecum in Tampa, you brought in a number of personal bankbooks 
which have been examined, and we failed to find the bankbook, the 
passbook, for the Marine National Bank at Tampa. Do you know 
why that was not produced ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No; I thought I gave it to you. The one that 
was missing was the First National Bank. 

Mr. Rice. No; we examined — I think we examined the one at the 
First National. 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I do not have one of the First National. 

Mr. Rice. Didn't you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. I think you had deposit slips of the First National. 

Mr. Culbreath. I had a few deposit slips. 

Mr. Rice. We do not find the passbook for the Marine Bank. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if it was not there, I don't have it, I 
thought it was there. 

Mr. Rice. If it is not there, you have it, 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I said if it is not there, I don't have it. 

Mr. Rice. You do not have it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; I thought I turned it in to you. 

Mr. Rice. You still have an account? 

Mr. Culbreath. The only one I thought was not produced — — 

Mr. Rice. You had a figure of $1,352:66, so I take it you have some 
records ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I contacted the bank, and I have the figure. 

Mr. Rice. You contacted the bank ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You do not have to check or double check to see if the 
bank had made a mistake ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No; they said I had how much there? 

Mr. Rice. $1,352.66. 

Mr. Culbreath. $l,300-and-something, wasn't it? Yes. That is 
what was there, That is what they gave me. 

Mr. Rice. That is what they said, and you are confident what they 
told you is right ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Since when has your position toward banks changed? 
There a while back you did not have much confidence in banks? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, there is not much there. It was checked out. 
That is all that has been there. That account is dormant. 

Mr. Rice. At one time you would not deposit money in banks, you 
would keep it in a safe deposit box in your home or some other places,, 
because you do not particularly trust banks, in view of the bank holi- 
day ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, there are lots of people down there that still 
feel that way. 

Mr. Rice. Well, what is it now ? Do you trust them or not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I would not put all of it there, if I had a lot 
of money. 

Mr. Rice. You would not put it all in, but you would trust them to 
tell you what they got? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 359 

Mr. Culbreath. What they have in there ; certainly that is the only 
way to find ont. 

Mr. Rice. All right. 

Now, then, we have examined the books, and we find some interest- 
ing things. Not counting the deposits of the Marine Bank, which 
we did not have the pass book of, to examine that, we used the pass- 
books for the other five banks, and going down through the years, 
we notice this : that in 1937, your total annual deposits in all of the 
banks that you had, were $3,257.70 — that is, all except the Marine 
Bank. In 1938. $2,887.92; 1939 and 1940 and 1941, nothing, no 
deposits in any bank. 

Now, then, you became sheriff; and in 1942, $510 was deposited; 
1943, $15,976.71 ; 1944, $46,229.92; 1945, $9,626.91 ; 1946, $22,580; 1947, 
$3,582.09; 1948, $11,274.80; 1949, $8,312.50; and in 1950, $9,848.95. 

Now, on vour income tax that you reported, the total deposits are; 
$134,088.50 'from the years 1937 until 1950, not counting the Marine 
Bank. 

Now, since very few of those years are — particularly in the year 
1943, for instance, you paid an income tax on a total income of 
$2,599.98 ; that was your total income you reported to the Government, 
but you deposited in the bank that year $15,976. How do you account 
for that? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Well, that year I was not even in the sheriff's office- 
Mr. Rice. That is right. You were in the Army. 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. That is money that I had previously earned, or 
had, and I was moving around, so at different times I put some money 
in the banks. 

Mr. Rice. You were moving around, so you put it in the bank; is 
that the idea ? 

Mr. Culbreath. At times I would. 

Mr. Rice. Where had you been keeping it before ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Keeping it in the safe. 

Mr. Rice. In a safe, where ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. At home. And when I would move around over 
the country, I would take some of it with me. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then you moved it around, and you put it in a bank 
here and there ; is that it ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Put it — put some of it in the banks ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. When did you stop doing that? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. Stopped doing what? 

Mr. Rice. Stopped moving around ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. When I got back out of the Army. 

Mr. Rice. When you got out of the Army ? 

Mr. Ctjlbreath. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. That was what year ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think that was in 1944. 

Mr. Rice. 1944; what month? 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't remember. 

Mr. Rice. It was the early part of the year, was it not? 

Mr. Culbreath. I would not say; I don't remember. I think it 
was maybe April. 

Mr. Rice. According to our records, it was in the spring of 1944. 
You do not find any dispute about that ? 



360 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

All right. In 1944 you paid tax on $5,133. But that year you 
deposited in the bank $46,229. How did you do that? 

Mr. Ctjlbreatii. Well, it was just that the bank was getting a little 
more stable, and people having a little more confidence in them, if you 
want to put a little more money in it. 

Mr. Rice. Your confidence was growing in the banks all the time? 

Mr. Ctjlbreatii. Well, I did not have to put all of it in there, or 
you don't have to keep it all out, just whatever 

Mr. Rice. Before, you were moving around; that was the reason 
you were putting it in. Now, your confidence in the bank was higher? 

Mr. Culbreath. I didn't say I was moving around ; that was par- 
tially the reason, but I would not put it all there. 

Mr. Rice. I think we understand, Sheriff. 

The Chairman. I notice here, Sheriff, that in 1946 you deposited 
$22,580. 

Mr. Culbreath. How much, sir? 

The Chairman. Twenty-two thousand five hundred and eighty dol- 
lars, and that year you reported that you earned $7,500. That 
is 2 years after 1944. How do you account for that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That was probably at the time that I had figured 
on buying some real estate, and I was putting some money in the 
bank to close the deal. 

The Chairman. Then, according to these things, here in 1943, for 
instance, you put in the bank $13,000 more than you made. In 1944 
you put in the bank $41,000 more than you made; in 1946 you put in 
the bank $15,000 more than you made, just for those years alone, and 
it seemed that you must have had $69,000 in a safe deposit box some- 
where. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir ; that is possible. 

The Chairman. You think that was $69,000? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What is the highest amount you ever had in the 
safety deposit box? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, Senator, I couldn't give you an accurate 
figure, but I have had as much as seventy-five, eighty, eighty-five 
thousand dollars, maybe a little more. 

The Chairman. Did you think when you started out as sheriff, you 
would have seventy-five or eighty thousand dollars in the box ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I do not see how you ever made money like that. 
You made over ten or twelve thousand dollars a year, but you had 
your family to support, and a lot of living expenses. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, it didn't cost a whole lot to live in those days. 

The Chairman. Well, I mean you had, looking over the record, I 
understand that you had a boat, and you paid $2,700 for an engine 
for it. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; and 

The Chairman. Living on that sort of basis 

Mr. Culbreath. And the boat is used in the office business, too, 
Senator. You see, lots of my territory, my county is in the water. 
We have several islands there. 

The Chairman. Well, the office does not pay for the boat, the 
engine? 

Mr. Culbreath. It certainly should pay for some of it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 361 

The Chairman. Did it pay for it ? Did it buy it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. It paid some of it, got some of it out of the office 
expense. 

The Chairman. You mean as sheriff? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; take the expense, I can take the expense 
from the sheriff's office, and use that. 

The Chairman. How much is the expense allowance for a sheriff ? 

Mr. Culbreath. There is not any set figure. 

The Chairman. Mr. Mills and Mr. Rice said that the 

Mr. Rice. On the testimony ; but in reviewing the accounts, we found 
a check drawn for $2,700 from his personal account for that motor, 

Mr. Culbreath. That is correct. But, at the same time, some of 
your expense on the boat, you can take money from some other 
expense item to help defray that expense. 

Mr. Rice. Who decides that. Who decides how much you are 
going to take, Sheriff ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The sheriff does. 

Mr. Rice. You decide how much you are going to take in expenses 
as the sheriff's office? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, subject to review. 

Mr. Rice. Who reviews it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The State auditor. 

Mr. Rice. The State auditor. Did he ever review that, do you 
know ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, they review everything. 

Mr. Rice. Do you suppose you have a record in the sheriff's office 
as to how much was paid for that motor? 

Mr. Culbreath. In the sheriff's office, I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Rice. The sheriff's office wouldn't? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. Who has the record? 

Mr. Culbreath. I do. 

Mr. Rice. That is your personal account? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mi*. Rice. Now, then, you said some of the expenses for that motor 
were shared by the sheriff's office, 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, whatever expense I wanted to charge. 

You see, I take out a hundred, $200, $300, expenses, or $400, and use 
that money as expense in any way that the sheriff's office 

Mr. Rice. I am talking about the payment for the motor itself. 

Mr. Culbreath. The motor was paid for by me. 

Mr. Rice. By you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. You are talking about the money it costs to run the 
motor, now? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well. I am talking about — you certainly would 
charge some expense, you are entitled to some. 

Mr. Rice. Well, now, what records do you give to the auditor so 
that he can find out on that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. The only record the auditor gets is that expense 
item. 

Mr. Rice. You put in an expense item of whatever happened to 
occur to you ? 



362 ORGANIZE© CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. If you use the expense of an auto- 
mobile or whatever it is, feeding prisoners, anything like that. 

Mr. Rice. One of the bank records that we had here, you did not 
have a passbook. Is that the First National? That was the First 
National Bank you gave us deposit slips? I take it from that that 
you have occasionally made deposits with deposit slips at banks? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is the only way to make it at the First Na- 
tional. I had a passbook and it was lost, and never got another one. 

Mr. Rice. At other banks you use deposit slips, do you not? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Suppose you forget your passbook, do you make deposits 
with deposit slips ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Possibly once in a while. 

Mr. Rice. Once in a while? 

Mr. Culbreath. Possibly that ; it would be very rare. 

Mr. Rice. So that you do that occasionally, do you not? 

Mr. Culbreath. I wouldn't say so too regular. I think maybe you 
found in the Punta Gorda Bank 

Mr. Rice. We merely want to make sure whether we had all of 
your deposits from the bankbooks and I see now that we do not, and 
that you would have additional deposits from your deposit slips, 
which would not be recorded in your books, so that this figure that 
was used here to show the total deposits would be a low figure. You 
would have something over that. 

Mr. Culbreath. You had all the deposits, all the money, that had 
been deposited in the banks. 

Mr. Rice. Well, all of your deposit slips would not be in your bank- 
book if you did not take your book, would it? 

Mr. Culbreath. I think I gave you the Punta Gorda, and I be- 
lieve there were two that was not entered, but the slips was in the book. 

Mr. Rice. Now, without the extra deposit slips that you now are 
talking about and without the passbook for the Marine Bank, we 
find total deposits from January 1, 1942, to December 27, 1950, of 
$127,942.88. 

Mr. Culbreath. In what banks? 

Mr. Rice. They are all the banks, the deposits which do not include 
the Marine Bank and which do not include these extra deposits you 
made which are not entered in your passbook; from 1942 until De- 
cember 1950, we find total deposits of $127,942.88. 

During that time you were making $7,500 a year, which would total 
$67,500 for the same period. How do you do that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, some of the deposits — the Marine account 
was campaign money, and some campaign money was in the First 
National Bank. 

Mr. Rice. I see now. Well, we do not have the Marine Bank, so we 
will eliminate that. How much campaign money went into the 
Marine Bank ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I wouldn't know. There would not be any way 
for me to tell you how much. Just like all other candidates they don't 
know how much they spend. 

Mr. Rice. So some of these moneys then are campaign moneys, is 
that correct? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 363 

Mr. Rice. And you keep your campaign moneys in your personal 
account ? 

Mr. Culbreath. In one occasion it was mixed, but I said the Marine 
Bank, that was a campaign 

Mr. Rice. That is the campaign account? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. That is the campaign account, and that is the one we do 
not have. If you had an account there why would you intermingle 
your moneys from a campaign 

Mr. Culbreath. It has not been intermingled there. 

Mr. Rice. It is in your other personal accounts, is it not? 

Mr. Culbreath. That account has been dormant, if you will check, 
from the time of the election. 

Mr. Rice. Are your campaign contributions confined to the Marine 
Bank? 

Mr. Culbreath. No ; I said with the exception of some in the First 
National. 

Mr. Rice. First National ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

Mr. Rice. How much would you have had in the First National 
from your campaign ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I can't give you the exact figure. 

Mr. Rice. How many years do you stay in office at a time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Four. 

Mr. Rice. And you get campaign contributions every 4 years? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, like any other man running for office he 
takes contributions for his campaign. 

Mr. Rice. You get your main contributions in campaign years, do 
you not? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. 

Mr. Rice,. Well, here are a couple of years, like 1946 — well, you ran 
in 1944 and 1948, did you not ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I believe that is right. 

Mr. Rice. 1946, you deposited $22,000, you made $7,500. Where 
did that money come from ? 

Mr. Culpreath. Well, that is getting back to the same question, I 
think I answered that a moment ago. There is some money that I 
had on hand. 

Mr. Rice. Oh, this is more of the same money, this just coming 
from 

Mr. Culbreath. I have testified to that, Mr. Rice, three or four 
times. 

Mr. Rice. From that source. All right. Now, do you want to tell 
us about any additional income you have had from 1940 until the 
present from many source except campaign funds, and the salary as 
sheriff, have you had any other jobs? 

Mr. Culbreath. Any other moneys that came in, you say? 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. There may have been some small money which I 
reported, like from one or two little rental places. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. A couple of hundred dollars a year, we have those. 

You have not been in any other business during that time ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, except what I have testified to. 



364 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Eice. No, then, again going back to the bank deposits, we note 
that yon deposited $34,400 in the Florida National Bank at St. Peters- 
burg during the period immediately after you left the Army, from 
July 14, 1944, to October 30, 1944, which is only 3 months and a half 
there, and you had some round-numbered amounts on July 14, where 
you had $7,900 deposited; on the 28th, $8,500; 31st of August, $8,000; 
and the 30th of October, $10,000. 

Where did that money come from ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is money that I had, and a moment ago I 
testified that I was figuring on buying some property and making a 
real estate deal was the reason I put that money there. 

Mr. Rice. Where did this money come from? 

Mr. Culbreath. Money that I had made previous. 

Mr. Rice. Where were you keeping that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, that is the same money that I testified sev- 
eral times about that I had in the safe. 

Mr. Rice. This is the safe in your house ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Well, there is something wrong somewhere, because you 
accumulated here $34,000 getting ready to buy some property, but 
during that year you only bought $4,000 worth of property. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is because the deal didn't go through. 

Mr. Rice. The deal did not go through ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. That is what I say I was getting ready 
buy some there. I certainly would not have been putting it there if 
I had not figured on buying it. 

Mr. Rice. What particular parcel were you talking about ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, there was no particular parcel ; there is a lot. 

Mr. Rice. It was not the one that you bought from John Torrio, 
was it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I bought that and used some of that money 
for it. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. That was later on. 

Mr. Culbreath. But I didn't know who I was buying that from and, 
as a matter of fact, I am offered $40,000 for that piece now. 

Mr. Rice. When you were accumulating this money in the bank 
why did you break it down into four different deposits instead of just 
taking it in one lump ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, if I would go over there, I would not want to 
take a whole, one lump at one time. 

Mr. Rice. Why? 

Mr. Culbreath. There is such things as sometimes you lose it or 
someone will take it away from you. 

Mr. Rice. What was that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Sometimes one could take it away from you if they 
knew it. 

Mr. Rice. Sometimes someone would take it away from you ? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. 

Mr. Rice. You are the sheriff. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right, but I am human just like you. 

Mr. Rice. All right, let us hear the explanation. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 365 

Mr. Rice. And who were you afraid was going to take it away from 



YOU 



Mr. Culbreath. I just did not want to take the whole sum at one 
time is all. 

Now, for'instance. $7,900: why take $7,900 instead of. say, $8 000? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I could have taken $7,500; it would not have 
made anv difference. . 1AnftA 

Mr. Rice. And you were afraid that if you took more than $10,000 
someone might take it away from you '. 

Mr Culbreath. They might take it away it you take 10, tliey 
might take it away if you take 5 ; it is best not to put all your eggs m 
one basket at one time. 

Mr. Rice. Now, it looks to me like yoiv had quite a few eggs m that 

safe. 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. _ . " 

Mr. Rice. What do you want to say about that? That is one basket, 

is, it not? , , 1 , , , 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I guess that was about as closely guarded 
as I knew how to do it. It was right in my home. 

Mr. Rice. It was right in your home and you were up m the Army 
in Georgia somewhere. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well. I had someone there. 

Mr. Rice. Someone there. Who was that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, someone lived in my home at the time. 

Mr. Rice. You were the only one, though, who knew the combina- 
tion ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You say you were or you were not i I ou were tne 
only one who knew the combination ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir ; that is right, sir. 

Mr. Rice. How big a safe was this ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Mr. Mills saw it. It is about so wide and about so 

high. . , 

The Chairman. Well, you are indicating about— let us see, how 

wide is it? 

Mr. Mills. It is about 2' feet wide. 

The Chairman. About 2 feet wide ? 

Mr. Mills. And about 2i/ 2 high and about 2y 2 feet deep. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is right. 

The Chairman. How much did it weigh ? 

Mr. Culbreath. I imagine four or five hundred pounds. 

The Chairman. A couple of men could carry it? 

Mr. Culbreath. They have their hands full and I think Mr. Mills 
could testify that where I had it and all it was concealed pretty well 
and fixed in a place where it would be a problem to get it. 

The Chairman. Weren't you afraid, being away 2 or 3 years, some- 
one might pick up the safe and carry it out? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, you might be afraid of that, Senator, but 
you have to take a chance sometimes, I guess. 

The Chairman. How long were you away from your home during 
the time before you came back after the service ? 

68958 — 51 — pt. la 24 



366 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I had come back every, oh, maybe 60 days, 
or maybe 3 months, 90 days. 

The Chairman. Well, was your wife with you where you were? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir ; she lived in the home. 

The Chairman. She stayed at home? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Would she come to see you at times ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Once or twice, I think. 

The Chairman. Where were you stationed — up in Georgia? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Where? 

Mr. Culbreath. At Waycross. 

The Chairman. And when she would come to see you, who would 
stay at the house? 

Mr. Culbreath. I had a son who lived there. 

The Chairman. He lived there in the house? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. He went to school. 

The Chairman. Sometimes the house though would be empty, 
would it not? 

Mr. Culbreath. Possibly; yes, sir; for just a while. 

The Chairman. Your wife would be away and your son would leave 
and the house would be empty ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did that give you any worry? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; it did. 

The Chairman. You mean about that $75,000 or $80,000 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Why didn't you get a safe deposit box in the bank 
and put it all there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I used — some of my deputies were told to 
keep an eye on my home when I was away, so that they would pass 
by there and check it. 

The Chairman. But you did not tell them you had $80,000 in the 
safe? 

Mr. Culbreath. No; I just asked them to keep a close watch on it. 

The Chairman. What if the house had burned down, what would 
happen? 

Mr. Culbreath. It would have just been too bad. 

The Chairman. It was not any fireproof safe, was it ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; it is supposed to be a fireproof safe. 

The Chairman. But a small safe like that, the thing might burn 
up, might it not? 

Mr. Culbreath. If it did, I would just be out of luck. 

The Chairman. You would just be ruined? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I assume you put this money in the Waycross bank 
because you were stationed up there at Waycross ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I was stationed there, and then, of course, 
the Army pays you by check, and I opened an account and put some 
more money in there. 

The Chairman. Well, you got a lot of money in the Waycross bank. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I have about $8,500, $9,000. 

The Chairman. And you just left it there when you left the Army ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir; it is just dormant there. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 367 

The Chairman-. Why did you have them put some money in (he 
Alabama bank? . 

Mr. Culbreath. I don't have any m the Alabama. 

Mr. Rice. Punta Gorda, Fla. 

The Chairman. I mean Florida. 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I was transferred there. 

The Chairman. In the service? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How long were you there ? 

Mr Culbreath. I was there, I think, about ( or 8 months. 

The Chairman. You did not accumulate $8,500 while you were there, 

did vou ? . 

Mr. Culbreath. I had that money when 1 went there. . 

The Chairman. You had it with you? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How long were you at Waycross i 

Mr. Culbreath. I would say about 9 months, maybe a year, some- 
Avheres around a year, about 9 months. 

The Chairman. And you accumulated $9,o00 while you were there f 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I had the money and I put it in the bank. 

The Chairman. When you go home you get some money out of the 
safe and put it in your pocket and then put it in the bank? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I might put some in my pocket and put it in 

a bank. 

The Chairman. All right. Mr. Rice, go ahead. 

Mr. Rice. While you were up at Waycross what was your rank i 

Mr. Culbreath. I was a major there. 

Mr. Rice. You were a major? Were you a member of the omcers 
club there? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. i 

Mr. Rice. Did they have slot machines at the omcers club i 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have anything to do with the slot machines * 

Mr. Culbreath. Nothing at all. 

Mr. Rice. Didn't you have the duty or the job of making the collec- 
tion from them from time to time? 

Mr. Culbreath. Never did. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Positive. 

Mr. Rice. You never emptied the machine and counted the take ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Never emptied or counted it. 

Mr. Rice. Did vou ever play them ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Put a few nickels in them, not many, because I 
•don't believe in them. 

Mr. Rice. Did you have anything to do with the committee that 
-counted the money in those machines up there ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. You had a club officer. 

Mr. Rice. Yes. 

Mr. Culbreath. And he handled all the club activities. 

Mr. Rice. Weren't you the club officer who handled that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Positive. 



368 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Rice. How about at Punta Gorda, did you have an officers' club 
there? 

Mr. Culbreatii. I don't believe we did, I am not sure ; I don't think 
we did. 

Mr. Rice. You did not have slot machines there ? 

Mr. Culbreatii. Not that I remember. 

Mr. Rice. How come you to be transferred from Waycross to Punta 
Gorda? 

Mr. Culbreath. That is military business. 

Mr. Rice. You did not have anything to do with that? 

Mr. Culbreath. No, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Were you in any difficulty there ? Were you in any diffi- 
culty at Waycross ? 

Mr. Culbreath. No. 

Mr. Rice. It was not disciplinary transferring? 

Mr. Culbreath. It certainly was not. 

Mr. Rice. Now, then, you left the Army in 1944. The war was still 
going on. Why was that? 

Mr. Culbreath. Well, I think that is when they turned out some 
officers, beginning to cut down the Armed Forces and turned some of 
them out. 

Mr. Rice. In the spring of 1944? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Cutting the officers down then ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Was that the reason, reduction of force ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. Wasn't you in the Army ? 

Mr. Rice. I asked you if the reason was reduction in force. 

Mr. Culbreath. That is why it would be. If 37011 were in the Army 
I am sure you would be familiar with it. 

Mr. Rice. In the spring of 1944 ? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rice. Now, sir, there were a number of witnesses who testified 
down there in Tampa that they were connected with Jimmy Velasco, 
who was murdered on December 12, 1948, and they told us of the story 
of how the payoff to you was $1,000 a week. What do you have to say 
about that? That is, the payoff from Velasco, the Velasco group of 
gamblers to you of $1,000 a week; what do you have to say about that? 

Mr. Culbreatii. Well, I would say that that is false. I have a 
statement here that I would like to file with you, answering each one 
of those witnesses. 

Mr. Rice. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. You can file it and you can read it, or make any 
explanation you want to. 

Mr. Culbreath. Will it be all right for Mr. Pierce to read it for 
me? 

The Chairman. How long is it? 
Mr. Culbreatii. Twenty-seven pages. 

The Chairman. Well, Mr. Pierce — I mean, do you have copies? 
Mr. Culbreath. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pierce. I might say this, Senator, if I may : Not all of that is in 
direct reply to the testimony given by these various witnesses in 
Tampa. Probably from one-half to one-third of the total 27 pages 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 369 

are devoted to answering those witnesses, so when I say 27 pages, it 
probably does not reflect accurately the time that would be consumed 
in answering just particularly what Mr. Rice asked about. 

The Chairman. Part of the purpose of this hearing is to give 
Sheriff Culbreath a full opportunity for being heard on these matters 
that he felt he was not sufficiently heard on. 

Mr. Pierce. And we appreciate that. 

The Chairman. We will let you read it or you can file it, and it will 
be made a part of the record, and the sheriff can tell about it, which- 
ever way you want to do it. I mean, we can file it and give it to the 
press or copies to the press, or you can take them up and state them 
orally, whichever way von can do it. 

Mr. Pierce. Senator, if it would not be too much, and it we would 
not presume upon the committee's time too much, we would prefer, 
above everything else, to read it. 

The Chairman. It is all right, Go ahead. Give us copies of it. 

Mr. Pierce. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you going to do the reading? 

Mr. Culbreath. If it is permissible with the Senator, I would like 
to have Mr. Pierce read it. . 

The Chairman. Did vou write this or did the sheriff write it i 

Mr. Pierce. I wrote it myself in consultation, personal consultation, 
with the sheriff. 

The Chairman. You can read it if the sheriff wants to adopt it as 
his sworn testimony. 

Mr. Pierce. The sheriff has signed it and has sworn to it. 

The Chairman. Very well ; read the pertinent parts but try not to— 
at the present time why don't you read the part in answer to the state- 
ments of people who testified about the sheriff down there? 

Mr. Pierce. I have taken up, Senator, each witness who testified 
against the sheriff with reference to any gambling or vice operations 
in Hillsborough County. 

The Chairman. All right, let us get going, Mr. Pierce. 

Before you proceed further, the entire statement is made a part ot 
the record and will be copied into the record at this point. 

Let us have it understood again that this is the sheriff's testimony 
and that it is just as if he were stating this. 

(The sheriff's statement is identified as exhibit No. 13, and appears 
in the appendix on p. 488.) 

Mr. Pierce. The same as if he were narrating it under oath before 
this committee himself; is that correct? 

Mr. Culbreath. Yes. 

The Chairman. For all rules of perjury. 

Mr. Pierce. Yes, sir. I had him swear to it for that purpose and 
it is filed and made a part of the record. 

The Chairman. He swears to it now ? 

Mr. Pierce. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You may proceed. 

Mr. Pierce. Mr. Chairman, I have several exhibits that I refer to in 

The Chairman. Those will be read into the record following the 
reading of this statement. 



370 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

Mr. Pierce. Yes, sir. [Reading:] 

Supplementing my telegram to this committee of February 14, 1951, in answer 
to the committee's telegram to me of February 13, 1951, calling me to this hearing,. 
I desire at the outset to express my appreciation to the full committee for 
providing me with this opportunity to again appear before the committee and give 
to the committee the true facts concerning the false, reckless, and, in some 
instances, malicious charges made by some of the witnesses against me at the 
recent subcommittee hearing in Tampa last December. I had been assured from 
the published statements of the chairman that I would be given this opportunity 
and I am grateful for such privilege being now accorded me. 

With respect to my administration as sheriff of Hillsborough County, Fla., I 
would like, to begin with, to give this committee a brief outline of my official 
background. From the first part of 1933 to January 1941 I was constable for 
two 4-year consecutive terms in the most populous district in Hillsborough 
County, Fla., wherein Tampa is located. Under Florida law such office of con- 
stable was not a full-time office and I pursued my former vocation as a salesman 
and representative of various national meat-packing concerns. My compensation 
as constable was based upon fees from the office, not salary. After being elected 
and serving the two 4-year terms as constable, I ran for sheriff of Hillsborough 
County, Fla., in 1940, was elected, and took office in January 1941. Thereafter 
I was reelected in 1944 and again in 194S — all for 4-year terms. My present term 
expires in January 1953. Sheriffs in our State are elected for a term of 4 years 
and are eligible to succeed themselves indefinitely. I am the only sheriff in the 
past 54 years in my county to be reelected to succeed himself, and am the only 
sheriff in the history of my county to be elected for three successive terms. 

During my tenure as sheriff of Hillsborough County, Fla., my county has 
been singularly free of any form of gambling, except what is locally known as 
bolita or Cuba. No gambling houses, clubs, casinos, or other similar establish- 
ments have existed, although prior to my being sheriff there were many such 
houses reportedly in operation, during regimes of many previous sheriffs. The 
absence of such gambling houses during my time as sheriff will, I believe, be 
conceded by all concerned, be they friend or foe. 

Cuba or bolita is a variation of the old numbers game. It supposedly derives 
from the Latin countries, and as you may know, we have a quite substantial 
Latin population in and around Tampa. I make no claim that bolita or Cuba 
is now, or has ever been, suppressed in my county. On the other hand, I do 
say that while I have been sheriff there has been less bolita or Cuba operations 
in my county than at any time previous to my being sheriff. Furthermore, and 
what I particularly want to emphasize is that what bolita peddling there has 
been, has been strictly local, with no known ties with any similar or allied 
element of other cities, other counties, other States or other countries. My 
strongest support for this statement is that, during my almost 20 years tenure' 
as a chief law-enforcement officer in my county, there has never been any accu- 
sation to the contrary, even by my most ruthless political opponents. When 
I have hereinbefore mentioned Cuba, I want it understood I was not referring to 
the Cuban national lottery tickets which are sold in Cuba and some of which 
sometimes get to the States. There has been no Cuban national lottery tickets 
in Tampa, so far as my knowledge or information goes, since long before I took 
office originally as constable. The word "Cuba" as used in this connection in 
Tampa is a loosely coined term to describe a form of bolita or numbers game. 

Bolita or Cuba is a form of gambling difficult to contend with from a law- 
enforcement standpoint, even when operated strictly locally. State laws of 
Florida governing arrests, searches and seizures, etc., are very liberal and favor- 
able to the citizen, which, of course, includes suspected persons and even those 
we know in our own minds are peddling bolita. There has been considerable- 
agitation in Florida over the past year or so to strengthen State statutes at the 
next legislature, convening in 1951, so as to make it less difficult for law-en- 
forcement officials to successfully arrest and convict gambling operators. Fur- 
thermore, indications are, judging from reports of arrests and searches of sus- 
pects made by deputies of my department, that local bolita transactions, even 
though carried on surreptitiously, are done without any visible or tangible evi- 
dence, usually by word of mouth. 

By all the foregoing I mean to say that the only gambling now carried on in 
Tampa is bolita or Cuba and that even that, although it does exist surrepti- 
tiously, is not widespread and is strictly local with no outside or foreign con- 
nections so far as is known, and the extent of it, even locally, is relatively small. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 371 

As for traffic in narcotics, which, of course, is a Federal offense punishable 
in the Federal courts when interstate or foreign aspects arc involved, 1 can only 
say that, from my knowledge of the situation. Tampa and Hillsborough County, 
Fla.. are freer today of the narcotic evil than at any time in history. In fact, 
Mr. A. P. Rogers, formerly in charge of local Federal narcotic enforcement, and 
recognized as one of the ablest narcotic agents in the country, was transferred 
from Tampa several years ago to another headquarters, and I believe the Federal 
enforcement locally lias been handled nut of the Jacksonville office since that 
time. We have a State narcotic law, but the enforcement of the State law is 
handled largely by the State board of health, which has its headquarters in 
Jacksonville, Fla., and even the local agents, I believe, work out of the Jackson- 
ville office. We have no particular local problems in the field of narcotic traffic. 
Counterfeiting is also locally at an absolute minimum. All of this can be quite 
easily substantiated by this committee checking with the Federal law enforce- 
ment authorities in Florida. 

All of the foregoing with reference to diminishing conditions of local gambling 
in my countv is abundantly supported by the public record, by periodic investi- 
gation by public official bodies, such as our local grand jury, our local county 
solicitor, who has the same inquisitorial and investigative power and authority 
as our local grand jury as to all crimes less than capital, including gambling, by 
privately constituted 'committees of public-spirited citizens, such as our local 
ministerial committee, by the open public speaking platform and radio and news- 
paper outlets afforded and utilized by all rival candidates and supporters thereof 
during political elections every 4 years, and in various other ways, and the result 
of such investigations, during my tenure in office, has been to establish the fact, 
of a constantly diminishing extent of gambling operations in my county. 

For instance, I file with the committee herewith, and as a part of this statement, 
an original copy of the issue of the Tampa Daily Times of Friday, April 1, 1949, 
containing in full the official Hillsborough County grand jury's report that day 
returned and bled in the office of the clerk of the circuit court for Hillsborough 
County, Fla., which contained the grand jury's report to the people of the reported 
gambling situation and gambling conditions in Hillsborough County, Fla., and 
the political activities and efforts on the part of certain disgruntled and dis- 
credited local politicians to bring about my removal as sheriff by the Governor 
of Florida under his constitutional powers of suspension. Said grand jury 
report was lengthy and somewhat in detail and covered the entire political and 
so-called gambling situation in my county and was drawn up and returned by 
said grand jury after months of official investigation by its 18 members drawn 
from the body of the county. This April 1949, grand jury report is not the only 
one in that vein, but merely one of several during my terms as sheriff, and is 
illustrative of all, and, in 'fact, said April 1949 grand jury report expressly 
calls attention to other similar grand jury reports. I will not attempt to give 
any elaborate resume of that report, but will suffice to call this committee's 
attention to one excerpt therefrom as corroborating what I have previously herein 
said about gambling conditions in my county during my time as sheriff being 
at a minimum. I quote from the April 1949, grand jury report (p. 10, column 2, 
Tampa Daily Times, issue of Friday, April 1, 1949, filed herewith as exhibit 
1, and made a part hereof) : 

"We find that conditions with relation to gambling during the forties have 
certainly been a great improvement over the thirties. This is evidenced by 
reference to the grand jury reports mentioned, and others, and by the fact that 
there has been only one killing, in more than S years. It is, also, clear from wit- 
nesses appearing before us and from our general knowledge that conditions since 
December 1948, have been an improvement over the previous several years, and 
that for the past several months commercialized gambling has definitely been at 
a true minimum." 

Furthermore, during October and November 1947, a privately constituted and 
privately appointed citizens' committee or ministerial committee, as it was also 
called, investigated local gambling conditions in my county in response to various 
urgings, rumors, and hearsay peddled and bruited about surreptitiously in my 
county (which incidentally lias been going on in my county as long as I can 
remember since long before I was ever constable or sheriff). I had nothing to do 
with the composition of said citizens' committee, or how it operated, how it made 
its investigations and certainly imposed no obstacle or impediment in its path. 
On December 5, 1947, said citizens' committee made its official report, which was 
contained in the issue of the Tampa Daily Times of Friday. December 5, 1947, 
complete copy wbereof is herewith attached hereto and filed with the committee 



372 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

as exhibit 2, and as a part of this statement. Said citizens' committee report 
found and declared there was less gambling in my county than in previous years 
and commended the public officials, which naturally included myself, for what 
said committee described as "this improved condition." This report also de- 
clared that the existence of an organized syndicate for gambling purposes for 
my county had not been established. Tlie committee report also commended 
the local law-enforcement officers, which naturally included myself, for "display- 
ing the greatest willingness to cooperate with the committee in every way pos- 
sible." Said report was signed by four Tampa ministers, three prominent Tampa 
church lay leaders, and the local Salvation Army captain. Their names are as 
follows as carried in said issue of the Tampa Daily Times of Friday, December 
5, 1947, page 1, column 8 : Rev. Harry H. Waller, chairman ; Rev. C. H. Matheny, 
secretary ; Rev. William H. Kadel, Rev. J. Earl Tharp, Robert S. Carnes, J. G. 
Bedingtield, Salvation Army Capt. O. O. Ward, and James C. Handly, members. 
In connection with the citizens' committee report just previously mentioned,. I 
attach hereto and tile with the committee as exhibit 3, a copy of the editorial 
page, page 4, of the Tampa Daily Times, of its issue of Saturday, December 8, 
1047, containing said newspaper's editorial reaction to said committee report. I 
quote the following excerpt from said editorial : , 

"The final report of the citizens' committee on gambling is one that can be 
accepted with the fullest confidence by the public. The frank pronouncement by 
the committee that there is gambling going on, but at a far less extent than in 
previous years recognized the truth. It sbowed the committee refused to be mis- 
led by exaggerated charges of syndicate gambling. 

"The committee's findings are clearly based on facts developed through 
thorough and extended investigations of their own. The conclusions and recom- 
mendations offered by the committee can be highly commended for their sound- 
ness. 

"All in all, the gambling investigating committee has done a good job of explod- 
ing the wild rumors about big-time gambling operators." (Italics mine.) 

Another thorough and private investigation, wherein I also had no connection, 
of comparative recent date, was that made by and at the direction of the present 
Governor of Florida, Hon. Fuller Warren, who in the spring of 1949 sent his per- 
sonal and trusted investigator, Mr. J. J. Elliott, and Mr. Ed Garner (now de- 
ceased), into my county of Hillsborough, together with an outside prosecutor, 
Hon. Grady Burton, of Sebring, Fla., with a long record of many years experience 
as State attorney in his Florida judicial circuit, for the purpose of thoroughly 
investigating the rumors and charges bandied about concerning alleged gambling 
activities in my county, disseminated incidentally, by the same identical witnesses 
and the same identical sources, which the subcommittee heard and listened to 
last December in Tampa. Governor Warren wanted a thorough and impartial 
investigation and he got it, uninfluenced in any way by me. This investigation 
failed to support or establish the existence of the unfounded rumors and charges 
made, and the result of such investigation was, to some extent dealt with in the 
grand jury's aforesaid report of April 1949. 

Another such public investigation made by a separate public agency, also in 
connection with so-called gambling activities and gambling payoffs in my county, 
of a comparative recent date, but prior to this subcommittee's hearings in Tampa 
last December, and however, concerning the same general subject matter, was 
that which was conducted by the county solicitor of Hillsborough County, Fla., 
Hon. V. R. Fisher. Under Florida law, the county solicitor of my county is in 
effect a one-man grand jury as to all crimes and offenses less than capital, which 
of course, includes gambling and bribery. The grand jury itself is not deprived 
of such authority, but it is merely granted by law to the county solicitor as 
coextensive with that of the grand jury in its limited field. In the early spring 
of 1949, a certain alleged "payoff list" was publicly exhibited by one P. Joseph 
Rodriguez, who is a member of the City Board of Representatives of Tampa. 
Alleged photostat copies thereof were widely distributed locally. The payoff 
list was supposed to be a leaf of paper taken from the papers and effects left by 
Jimmy Velasco, who was killed in Tampa on December 12, 194S. The so-called 
list was supposed to contain notations indicating amounts of money and other 
considerations given to various public officials, including myself, from time to 
time by Jimmy Velasco during his lifetime, supposedly for protection and favors 
granted to Jimmy Velasco, who was supposed to be a big figure in the alleged 
local gambling racket. The authenticity and, in fact, the actual genuineness, 
of the payoff list was a principal subject of investigation by County Solicitor 
Fisher and also by the county grand jury itself, each independent but simul- 
taneous, during the early spring of 1949. 



ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 373 

On \pril 4, 1949, extensive and detailed public reports were given by both said 
-rand Jury and Solicitor Fisher, each independent of the other Bath said ^re- 
ports however, branded said alleged payoff list as completely false a palj.aljle 
forgery and a fabrication from start to finish. Said P. ^ph Rodriguez was 
nersonallv and hv name acused in both official reports as being the instigatoi of 
such false documents. Shortly after these reports were made public, the Tampa 
Citv Board of Representatives officially by resolution called upon said board 
member P Joseph Rodriguez to resign his position on said board of representa- 
Sve" because of his -indefensible conduct" in connection with the perpetration of 
said so called pavoff list. This is the same Mr. P. Joseph Rodriguez who was 
P u blicTv "hanked at the conclusion of this subcommittee hearing in Tampa at 
December for his -valuable and most helpful- assistance to the staff of this 
comm itee « m its difficult task."' I attach hereto and file with this committee 
issuS oflhe Tampa Daily Times of Monday, April 4. 1949, and Wednesday Apr 1 
6 19% as exhibi s 4 and 5, respectively, and made a part hereof, which abund- 
antly support the statements herein made with reference to the public reports 
officially branding the alleged payoff list produced fml distributed about by P 
Joseph Rodriguez, as a hoax, a fraud, and an outright forgery. The > said land 
iurv report as contained on the first page of said issue of April 4, 1949, intima el 
that said Rodriguez would have been indicted and prosecuted for bribery m con- 
nee io n w ith an automobile which the grand jury stated Rodriguez had admitted 
hi mi v Velasco had bought for Rodriguez during the 1948 political campaign, 
were it for the f act that Rodriguez had been subpenaed and had testified be- 
fore the "counts -solicitor concerning the same and had therefore received im- 

^SS£^f^ii Stable and into my eleventh year as sheriff 
of mv home county, has quite forcibly demonstrated to me, as I feel sure similar 
experiences have demonstrated to all of us, that it is manifestly impossible for a 
pu li .-Official, particularly a chief law enforcement officer, to be exempt or im- 
mune from false and malicious rumors, charges, hearsay, and groundless accusa- 
tion .from harping critics, jealous and disgruntled politicians miscontents 
mllcontente has-beens, would bes, incompetents, opportunists and other plaim 
and aSS gripes and chiselers. We will always have our detractors some 
v ole I explostve and vituperous, others passive, subtle and insidious As I say 
I have been no exception as the object of such abuse. On the contrary I could 
well qualify as exhibit A. In my county, and in fact in my State, we take our 
nolitS seriously, and the loser sometimes is not inclined to forgive and forget, 
in mv local eonnnunity of Tampa, the Latin temperament which is present in 
in r«-e proportion, mav to some extent be responsible for this. 

This constant v rekindled fire of local political animosities has been largely 
if n! entirely, responsible for the grand jury investigations citizens' committee 
nvestSuons etc. which, as I have hereinbefore mentioned, have been made and 
SSA time to time over the years in ^borough County la .and 
such <h-oup is as persistent as it is obnoxious. Thus, this Kefauvei committee 
or moreTccurately the subcommittee of one member sitting in Tampa last Decem- 
bei 1 Laixl tes imony, adduced through the use of carefully selected and channeled 
ouesUons bv conin ittee counsel from witnesses, mostly Latin, who had been 
TexteuIvveiZmea and discredited by official public investigations suet as 
Sandjury investigations, citizens' committee investigations, Governor s investi- 
gation etc The Kefauver subcommittee heard these witnesses for the firs t 
t^e and thev heard onlv the answers to carefully selected questions. But the 
co mS tee neard o searching cross-examination of these witnesses, nor evidence 
•Sstich witnesses would have had to give to other questions which would 
have brought out, in some instances, the whole truth instead of a half truth, 
heard revldem-; which would have been given in response to other Questions 
not asked, which, in other instances, would have ^^^^T^^ 
whole nicture was fabricated ; received no evidence as to the background oi 
claicterof'sucli witnesses except such as they were pleased to provide tor them- 
selves and heard no testimony from other and reliable witnesses who would have 
eomnle ely and effectually disproved the false and distorted gambling picture 
sS t to be eft b^ such witnesses. Lastly, the committee received no evidence 
I? leist ; public" .that such witnesses and their respective testimony had been 
discredited and repudiated by previous inquisitorial bodies. ,,,■', 

dl I IvistraUv^of this is the reaction of the present police ^ief of Tampa, Ma ;;; lni 
C Beaslev who stated publicly at a meeting of the Optimist Club m lampa a 
few days a'ftei the subcommittee's hearing adjourned in Tampa last December, 
that the testimony of the witnesses before this subcommittee was merely a rehash 



374 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

of previous testimony given to the local grand jury and that "there were no 
facts or evidence on which anyone could be indicted." After hearing Chief 
Beasley's remarks, another member of the Optimist Club present arose and 
identified himself as a member of the previous grand jury and he stated that 
the evidence before this subcommittee was the same evidence previously brought 
before the grand jury "and that it was insufficient to indict anyone." I attach 
hereto and file with this committee as exhibit 6, and made a part hereoof, a clip- 
ping from page 11 of the issue of the Tampa Morning Tribune of Thursday, Jan- 
uary 4, 1951, containing the report of said remarks made at said meeting of the 
Optimist Club which supports the statements herein made. 

I proceed now to a denial, in as brief detail as possible, of the charges, accu- 
sations, gossips, hearsay, innuendoes, and plain false statements made against 
me by some of the witnesses at the Tampa hearing of this committee. Such 
charges have been repudiated by my testimony and the testimony of many other 
and prominent citizens in my community on previous occasions of public investi- 
gation as before-mentioned, but I desire to do so before this committee and by 
this written statement under oath for the sake of the official and permanent 
record of this honorable committee. 

A man by the name of Noah W. Caton, testified at the Tampa hearing of 
this committee. He stated he installed a marine engine on a fishing boat of 
mine, which is true. Asked how much the motor would be worth, Caton replied 
in his testimony that "the new price of it would be, possibly $3,000" (Tr. 66). 
The truth of the matter is that the motor he installed was an old second-hand 
motor purchased by me from Mr. Leroy Allen, prominent attorney of Tampa, 
for the sum of $200. He testified we talked about going into some kind of business 
"on the beach" before the war. The truth is we never discussed any business 
whatever of any kind or nature before or during the war until along in 1945; 
when he came in my office in the Tampa Courthouse and solicited my help in 
trying to get him out of some kind of trouble that he had apparently gotten into 
out at MacDill Field, a prominent air base near Tampa, where he had apparently 
been employed in some capacity during the war. It seems there was some kind 
of a cloud hanging over his head at the post and he wanted to get me to help him 
get it lifted. I knew of no way I could help him, and told him so, but my under- 
standing is that in some way, whatever trouble it was, was successfully gotten 
out of the way. Along about that time Caton also solicited my help in trying to 
get into some kind of fish or water-front business over at the Gulf beaches and 
I did consent to help him get started and in fact advanced him some $200 or $300, 
but in the course of weeks thereafter he kept coming back for more and more 
money and I finally told him I just could not go along any further with him. 
He apparently resented the fact that I had to stop helping him. Concerning the 
entire transaction regarding the so-called fish house at Pass-a-Grille, in Pinellas 
County, Fla., purchased from a Mr. Zekosky (this is not the correct spelling of 
his name but it is the way he is referred to in previous testimony before this 
committee in Tampa), I believe I testified myself concerning same in Tampa, 
but in any event Mr. David Westcott, prominent businessman in Tampa, testified 
fully about it during the Tampa hearing and I refer this committee to such testi- 
mony for the true picture concerning all phases of the so-called fish house. 

One Paul Giglio, testified before this subcommittee in Tampa. He identified 
himself as being in the hardware business associated with one Frank Morales, 
but also admitted that he had been in the "bolita business" beginning around 
1942 (Tr. 210). He stated he sold bolita for one Frank Pardo, whom he stated 
was now deceased, also for one Sam Lumia, as to whose present whereabouts 
he professed not to know (Tr. 211). He admitted he had been arrested some 
8 or 10 time.', but would be bailed out on bond and the bond would be estreated 
(Tr. 213, et seq.) . He admitted he was arrested bv three deputy sheriffs from my 
office not too long before the Tampa hearing (Tr. 219, et seq.). He testified 
that in 194.S, while I was running for reelection he had had a conversation with 
me in my office and that I told him and his brother-in-law, Frank Morales, "to 
go straight and be sure that we go straight," and that T had heard "he was 
campaigning for the other fellow" (Tr. 222). He stated that during the second 
or runoff primary he "switched" to support me and came to my office with his 
brother-in-law Morales and also Mr. Cy Young, a member of the City Board of 
Representatives of Tampa, and gave me an envelope containing $500 as a cam- 
paign contribution (Tr. 222, et seq.). 

I attach hereto and file with the committee as exhibit 7, sworn affidavit of Mr. 
A. H. Young, known as Cy Young, whom Giglio admitted was present at the 
time. Mr. Young's affidavit establishes the fact that the entire conversation was 






ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 375 

about politics and that nothing dishonest or illegal was discussed or mentioned 

i,v anyone I never opened the envelope but turned it over to Mr. John P.roadus, 
<me of mv deputies, who was handling the finances in my campaign. I do not 
know how much money was in it or if there was any at all mthe envelope. 
iGifflio stated that a few days after that he brought in another $1,000 ( lr. 22o). 
That is absolutely untrue. He stated my deputies began harassing him and 
••picking" on him". So far as I know this was not true. I certainly gave no 
orders such as that and would promptly have suppressed it if it had happened. 
He further testified that after the election. Jimmy Velasco told him to take 
an envelope containing what Jimmy said was a sum of money, to me. He re- 
ferred to the envelope vaguely as "rent money" and referred to me as the old 
man" (Tr 227. et seq.). 

\11 of this is completely untrue. A careful reading of Giglio's testimony at 
that point will disclose he never said he ever delivered me any of such money. 
Insofar as my ever receiving such money or knowing anything about it, it it 
existed his testimony is absolutely untrue. As to any meetings between Gigbo 
and any other bolita peddlers, I know nothing about same and have serious 
doubts it ever happened (Tr. 231). As to Giglio's testimony with reference to 
protection and connections of certain unnamed bolita operators (except Jimmy 
Telasco now deceased), with the mayor, the chief of police and myself as sheriff. 
I can say as far as I am concerned, and as far as my knowledge goes, there was 
no truth whatever in such statements, and I respectfully call this committee's 
attention to his testimony in such regard, which shows it was based entirely 
upon hearsay, rumors, and suppositions, and no names mentioned except Jimmy 
Telasco. who is now dead (Tr. 236, et seq.). The only payments testified to by 
Gislio before this committee in Tampa as having been made by him to me was 
one payment of $500 and another payment of $1,000. The $500 payment was 
what was supposed to have been in the campaign contribution envelope, the con- 
tents of which I never saw, and the $1,000 payment simply never existed, it was a 
complete fabrication (Tr. 239). 

Mr G C Clarkson, one of my former deputies, testified at the Tampa hear- 
ing (Tr 9 40 et seq ) He was one of my clerks at the county jail for 2 or 3 
years but I had to discharge him in 1948. almost 4 years ago. His work had been 
getting rather unsatisfactory and I was thinking of letting him go, but the im- 
mediate thing that brought about his discharge was hat I found out he had a 
ho6k-up with one of mv former deputies. J. M. Richburg, but who had since re- 
signed and was in the bail bond business. The hook-up between them was that 
Clarkson would try to get prisoners, as they were brought in. to pay Richburg for 
a bail bond to get released from custody. Then Richburg would divide his tees 
r.O-r.O with Clarkson. I investigated, found it to be true, then called both Clark- 
son and Richburg into mv office. They both denied it at the time, but I already 
knew it was true and their denials were such as to confirm what I already 
knew I immediately fired Clarkson. Later Richburg voluntarily came to me 
and admitted the whole thing. I have never tolerated a bail bond racket around 
the county jail and all of my jailers and deputies know it. I made Richburg 
promise me he would carry on his bond business the same as all the other li- 
censed bondsmen in Tampa, in a strictly legitimate manner. Richburg has 
voluntarily made a sworn affidavit confirming what I say here which affidavit 1 
attach hereto and file with this committee as exhibit 8, and make the same a 
T>Rrt lioroof 

Clarkson 'has been mad at me ever since I fired him. His testimony before 
this subcommittee in Tampa was practically entirely based upon hearsay, rumors 
and suppositions as shown upon its face (Tr. 242. et seq.). He was asked about 
the so-palled Rrisss & Co. in the criminal department at the jail, and he plainly 
stated to this committee. "Personally I don't know anything about Briggs & Co. 
myself" (Tr. 242). In my testimony in Tampa I fully explained in detail what 
was meant by Brings & Co. and there is no semblance of anything incriminating 
about it (Tr." 470). Clarkson's testimony about so-called gamblers being brought 
in and the manner in which they were booked at the jail, shows on its face to 
be based upon hearsay, and insofar as there being any systematic or intentional 
departure from the manner of booking prisoners ordinarily, it was not so. A 
portion of Clarkson's testimony in Tampa is significant as throwing light upon 
his utter lack of knowledge of anything incriminating and also as to the manner 
in which he was interrogated by committee counsel Rice. Clarkson was asked 
if he knew anything about Paul Giglio having brought an envelope to the county 
jail during tlie spring. 1948. primaries. He stated he knew only what Giglio 
had told him. Then he was asked about anyone else bringing any envelope or 
money to the jail and he replied (Tr. 2.13 1 : 



376 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 

"Mr. Clarkson. No, I don't recall anyone else. I never talked with anybody 
else. That's jnst hearsay as far as I am concerned. I don't know, because their 
office is on one side and ours is here. There is a wall between, so I never came 
in contact over there. 

"Mr. Rice. So if the envelopes were laid on the desk you wouldn't be in a 
position to see it? 

"Mr. Clarkson. No, I didn't — I wouldn't. 

"Mr. Rice. It could happen, couldn't it? 

"Mr. Clarkson. Well, I would say it could happen. 

"Mr. Rice. Do you think it did ? 

"Mr. Clarkson. I don't know." 

(Italics mine). 

One Antonio Deschants (whose correct name I understand is Deschamps), 
testified (Tr. 539, et seq.) that he was a cousin of Jimmy Velasco and worked for 
Velasco as a chauffer and bolita checker. His testimony, insofar as it affected 
anyone else except Jimmy Velasco, was entirely hearsay and what is worse, hear- 
say based upon what he was told, or what he "understood" from Jimmy Velasco, 
who is now deceased. He testified that Velasco once, in a drunken moment, 
mentioned something about having to pay off even when he lost, and he also men- 
tioned something about a supposed check-in or check-out list which he stated 
he understood referred to myself, State Attorney Farrier and Chief of Police 
Eddings. Asked with reference to the markings which committee counsel was 
trying to get him to say referred to me, he replied : "I cannot say for sure. 
From what I heard that was the sheriff" (Tr. 546). He testified he drove 
Velasco two or three times around to Mayor Hixon's house (Tr. 552). This 
was the sum and substance of his testimony. 

So far as his testimony goes he has never seen me, talked with me, heard me 
say or do anything, or had any transaction with me or even been in my presence 
in his life. Personally I would not know Deschants if I were to see him now, 
unless I should recognize him as someone I had seen perhaps on the street in 
Tampa, maybe in passing, without even knowing his name or anything about 
him. Of course, I have no way of knowing what he truthfully "heard" or 
truthfully "understood" or in fact "imagined", but I can say that insofar as 
having anything to do with the fact of payoffs or protection money, as strenu- 
ously inferred by committee counsel, the same is untrue, at least so far as I am 
concerned or so lar as my knowledge extends. 

One, Mario Lounders, who testified at the Tampa hearing that he was another 
cousin of Jimmy Velasco and helped him sometimes by driving him around as an 
accommodation (Tr. 553, et seq.), stated that on a few occasions he would drive 
Velasco by the county jail, that Velasco would have some envelopes with him; 
that Velasco would go into the jail and later come out and they would proceed 
some place else. Similar visits, he said, were made to the home of Chief Eddings, 
and on other occasions at the office of the State Attorney, Farrior, in the Tampa 
Theater Building (Tr. 556, et seq). The witness said he would always stay in 
the car parked outside on the street while Velasco would go in and come back out. 
He never saw what was in the envelopes. The witness himself never went into 
any of the places nor otherwise left the car (Tr. 556 et seq.). He said that 
Velasco told him he was paying protection money to me as sheriff, also to Chief 
Eddings (Tr. 558, et seq.). Under questioning by Senator Hunt, Lounders ad- 
mitted he had never even seen any money placed in the envelopes or how the en- 
velopes were prepared before they were delivered, nor did Velasco ever leave any 
envelope with Lounders (Tr. 560-561). The witness admitted to Senator Hunt 
that he did not believe either I or Mr. Farrior or Mr. Eddings ever knew him 
(Tr. 561). That was the extent of Lounders's testimony. It is practically all 
merely surmise on his part, but whatever facts he might have been referring 
to was based entirely upon hearsay derived from a man now deceased, Jimmy 
Velasco. Personally I have never known Lounders and so far as I know have 
never seen the man in my life. There was certainly not a word of truth as to 
any payoffs so far as I am concerned or my knowledge goes. 

I understand that both Dugan and Lounders have testified before the Hills- 
borough County grand jury or before State Attorney Farrior, or maybe both, and 
have denied any knowledge whatever of the very things they presumed to testify 
to before this subcommittee in Tampa by hearsay. State Attorney Farrior, 
however, would be able to be more positive as to this. 

One Oscar J. Perez testified at the Tampa hearing (Tr. 563, et seq.), that he 
was Jimmy Velasco's private chauffeur for about 3 years ; that he drove Velasco 
"every place that he went" with the exception of when they had to go home to 



QRGANIZE'D CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 377 

eat (Tr 564). He was asked by committee counsel to describe the members 
of the so-called gambling syndicate, if he knew them, and he replied: Well to 
thP best of ' mv knowledge, the members of the syndicate, as I understand it- 
mrselLybewo^-" (Tr. 566). He then gave names based upon 
rLTs one o?w y hom was Jimmy Velasco. Later in referring to the supposed 
o-Zb in- nigher-ups, in the course of his remarks he stated, "and he told ne- 
fow I can-t & personally vouch for this, because I don't know-I am just telling 
von what someone else related to me — (Tr. 567-568). . 

'°L W thTd and fourth answer immediately following, also m referring to 
the so-called higher-ups, he used the words "I guess' twice (Tr. 068), and in 
the second and third answers immediately following that he also used the worth, 
«I <^ess" twice (Tr. 568-569). Shortly thereafter he was asked about how 
the S 4mbiing protection worked and he started off by saying, "Well, the way I 
I fnt [f wopkPd was this way * * *." Perez stated he had driven Velasco 
^tJsZTloZlSmTJmce, but whatever transactions were had therein, 
Velasco would have them all, tbat he, Perez, "was just merely acting as the 
chauffeu? Tr 571). He stated that Velasco on occasions would have some 
envelopes but would not say he had ever seen what went into the envelopes 
m 571) He also testified that he would drive Velasco by Chief Eddings home 
and' Velasco would go in for awhile visiting with Chief Eddings while Perez 
w mid w^it in the car (Tr. 573, et seq.). He also stated he had driven Velasco 
M Mr Farrror-s office building, but would never go with Velasco any further 
than the elevator (Tr. 578). The witness stated he had likewise driven Velasco 
around by Mayor Hixons house on several occasions but as in the other in- 
stances what took place inside, the witness did not know (Tr. o80). With 
respect to Sfca J Perez and his testimony, I can say that I know Oscar Perez 
He s the son-in-law of a very good Latin friend of mine of many years ago, Fred 
A«merre now deceased. I do not remember ever having any transaction of 
any kind with Perez in my life. I don't remember ever having talked with him 
o more than just a few occasions and then it would probably be around some 
of the polling precincts on election day for a minute or two and then probably in 
a group. As to there having been any payoff or arrangement or understanding 
between me and Jimmy Velasco, or between me and anyone else, it is absolutely 
untrue, and his testimony shows it was based upon suppositions and hearsay 
from a person deceased. . „ 

One T H Dugan, Jr., testified that he was a former deputy of mine toi I 
vears from '46 to '48. He stated he resigned, which is true. He stated he was 
instructed by my chief deputy at that time. Neil Keen, not to make any gambling 
or anv vice arrests (Tr. 599) . I cannot say what Keen may have told him outside 
of my presence, but if he gave him any such instruction it was absolutely with- 
out my authorization, without my knowledge, without my consent, and positively 
contrary to my orders to all my deputies, which was to at all times arrest any- 
one whom they knew was violating any State law. In my sheriffs office, as in 
all law-enforcement offices, especially in large cities, we have various divisions 
or details such as the homicide squad, a theft squad, a traffic detail and in- 
variably there is what is known as the vice squad. Men are usually specially 
trained and chosen for these particular, somewhat specialized assignments. 
Federal law-enforcement circles are universally patterned in this fashion Nat- 
urally the men assigned to these various specialized details look largely tor vio- 
lations of the respective offense or offenses coming within their particular held 
It may possibly be that my chief deputy would tell any rank-and-file deputy not 
to concentrate particularly upon offenders coming within any of the specific 
classes as to which specific details or squads are formed. However, I certainly 
never gave him any such instructions to say that and it was contrary to my 
specific orders. _ ,. . , , 

I might also mention that my then chief deputy, Mr. Keen, was dismissed by 
me at or about the same time witness Dugan resigned, in June 1948. Dugan 
testified he was told by another former deputy of mine, Ted Glover, that one 
Trafficante had been arrested by Glover, and Glover had been reprimanded Ivy 
me for making the arrest, because Trafficante was my personal friend Ir.60U, 
et seq ) Witness Dugan knew nothing about it of his own knowledge (T W>1). 
Ted Glover did not testify. I made no such reprimand whatever and so tar as 
mv office of Sheriff is concerned, a person is arrested if he violates the law and 
is' not arrested so long as he abides by the law, whether he is my friend or 
my enemy, in either event. Such is the extent of Dugan's testimony insofar 
as it pertained to me in any way. 



378 ORGANIZE© CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The foregoing is a brief hut fair resume of the testimony of any and all wit- 
nesses before the subcommittee in Tampa, by whom I was sought to be involved 
in gambling or pay-off or protection activities in Tampa. The foregoing contains 
also briefly my observations and comments thereon. I could, of course, enlarge 
and expand in each instance. But it all goes back to just what the present 
chief of police at Tampa, Chief Beasley, and the other gentleman at the Optimist 
Club said a few days after the subcommittee left Tampa last December, as here- 
inbefore narrated. It is the same hearsay, the same gossip, the same rumors, 
the same vague charges based upon suppositions, made by the same disgruntled 
or dissatisfied or discredited persons who have been listened to before and whose 
stories have been discarded and repudiated. As stated by the citizens or min- 
isterial committee in its report (see exhibit No. 2) : 

"There is gambling in Tampa. No official denied this. The large number of 
arrests by both county and city officers is sufficient proof. It is the sincere 
belief of the committee, however, that there is less gambling than in other years. 
Many prominent and long-time residents of Tampa concur in this belief. The 
committee wishes to commend the public officials for this improved condi- 
tion. The committee has not established the existence of an organized syndi- 
cate * * *." 

I attach herewith and file with the committee, as exhibit No. 9, and as a part 
hereof, a clipping from the Tampa Morning Tribune of its issue of December 7, 
1947, page 1, containing the citizens committee report, and which amplifies the 
contents of exhibit No. 2. 

With reference to the gambling arrests mentioned in the citizens committee 
report, and in closing this stateme