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Full text of "Investigation of organized crime in interstate commerce. Hearings before a Special Committee to Investigate Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, United States Senate, Eighty-first Congress, second session, pursuant to S. Res. 202 .."

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Given By 
U. S. SUPT 



,!ENTS 



3^ 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME 
IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 



;y ^^,j^ HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE 

OEGANIZED CBIME IN INTEESTATE COMMERCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FIRST CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 
AND 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 

S. Res. 202 

(81st Congress) 

A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AN INVESTIGATION OF 

ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

PART4-A HV^7/' 



• A r^' 

MISSOURI 



i^.'^A 



JUNE 13, 29; JULY IS, 19, 20; SEPTEMBER 29, 30, 1950; 
FEBRUARY 23, 24, 1951 



Printed for the use of the Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce 






\ 




IvA 



UNITED STATES 
GOVERNiMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
68958 WASHINGTON : 1951 

PUBLIC 






Pf. H-fi 



U, 8. SUPERINTENDENT OF DOCUMENTS 

AHR 11 1951 



SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE ORGANIZED CRIME IN 
INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

BSTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee, Chairman 
HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland CHARLES W. TOBEY, New Hampshire 

LESTER C. HUNT, Wyoming ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

Rudolph Hallet, Chief Counsel 

a 



CONTENTS 



Testimony of — Page 

Balestrere, James, Kansas City, Mo 485-492 

Blando, John B., Kansas City, Mo 511-513 

Boyle, J. W., public accountant. First National Bank Building, East 

St. Louis, Mo. 91-96 

Brown, William, St. Louis, Mo., accompanied by Morris Shenker, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 652-710,750-751 

Burnett, Gene, chief o^' police, Granite City, Madison County, 111 68-79 

Carroll, James J., St. Louis, Mo., accompanied by Morris Shenker, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 751-756 

Chambers, Hampton Smith, President Hotel, Kansas City, Mo 215-230 

Chiappetta, Vincent, Kansas City, Mo 517-520 

Clarke, Dr. James W., president, Metropolitan Church Federation, 

St. Louis, Mo 733-734 

Coalby, Delmar, East St. Louis, 111 575-582 

Coffey, Holt, Platte City, Mo 473-477 

Cohn, R. Robert, former police commissioner, Kansas City, Mo 202-215 

Cole, Lloyd S., Republican councilman. Fifth Magistrate District, 

Kansas City, Mo . 514-517 

Connell, Byron L., Mounds, 111 756-764 

Connor, John T., mavor, East St. Louis, 111., accompanied by R. E. 

Costello, attorney. East St. Louis, 111 163-170 

DeLuca, Joseph, Kansas City, Mo 492-496 

DeLuca, Frank S., Kansas City, Mo 509-511 

DiGiovanni, Joe, Kansas City, Mo 503-506 

DiGiovanni, Peter, Kansas City, Mo 506-509 

Edlund, Raymond A., treasurer, Democratic State committee, Kansas 

City, Mo 305-318 

English, John T., police commissioner. East St. Louis, 111 600-614 

Farrell, Sheridan E., Kansas City, Mo 408-418 

FerrantelU, Paul, Kansas City, Mo 520-521 

Fisher, Adolph, former sheriff, St. Clair County, 111 582-583, 719-726 

FoUmer, Claude A., agent. Narcotics Bureau, United States Treasury 

Department, Kansas City, Mo 418-423 

Forrestal, Miss Mary, Clayton, Mo., accompanid by Morris Shenker, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 118-127 

Foster, Gordon, East St. Louis, 111., accompanied by Robert Rutledge, 

and George Hendricks, attorneys. East St. Louis, Mo 195-196 

Frank, George, accountant, St. Louis, Mo 735-749 

Giardano, Joseph, St. Louis, Mo 154-158 

Gizzo, Anthony R., Kansas City, Mo 285-305 

Gruenewald, George 583 

Hackethal, Frank, Nameoki, 111 96-104 

Harrell, Dallas, sheriff, Madison County, 111 150-154,583,726-733 

Hendren, John H., Jefferson City, Mo 276-284 

Holzhausen, Col. William L., St. Louis Board of Police Commissioners, 

St. Louis, Mo 553-557 

Hundley, Harry W., Kansas City, Mo 523-536 

Klein, Morris (Snags), accompanied by Louis Wagner, attorney, 

Kansas City, Mo 252-276 

Laban, John, St. Louis, Mo 778-780 

Lacoco, Thomas (Tano), Kansas City, Mo 461-473 

Lopiparo, Anthony, St. Louis, Mo., accompanied by Cecil Block, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 764-778 

McKittrick, Roy, St. Louis, Mo 35-66 

McKissick, Henry, Kansas City, Mo 353-372 

Milligan, Jacob L., Kansas City, Mo 231-252 

Mohler, John, general attorney for Missouri, Southwestern Bell 

Telephone Co 159-163 

nz 



IV CONTENTS 

Testimony of — Continued Page 

Molasky, William, St. Louis, Mo., accompanied by Morris Shenker, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 1-34, 652-710 

Monroe, James O., Madison County, 111 783-787 

Moore, Gregory, St. Louis, Mo., accompanied by John W. Joynt, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 179-195 

Noonan, John K., Kansas City, Mo 318-337 

Nous, Henry O., Southwestern Bell Telephone Co 642-652 

Osadchey, Edward Philip (Eddie Spitz), Kansas City, Mo 372-408 

Partnoy, Simon, Kansas City, Mo 337-351 

Pendergast, James M., attorney, Kansas City, Mo 477-485 

Portell, Willard, Granite City, 'ill 145-150 

Porter, Charles, owner andpublisher, Festus Daily News, Festus, Mo- 105-109 
Prawl, Earl W., Clayton, Mo., accompanied by Morris Shenker, at- 
torney, St. Louis, Mo 109-118 

Purdome, J. A., sheriff, Jackson County, Mo 435-448 

Ragland, B. E., assistant treasurer. Democratic State committee, 

Jefferson City, Mo. 305-318,451-461 

Rainey, Walter L., Kansas City, Mo., accompanied by George Ander- 
son Maitland, Kansas City, Mo 424-435 

Randazzo, Marion, Kansas City, Mo 537-547 

Rich, C. J., St. Louis, Mo., accompanied by Morris Shenker, attorney, 

St. Louis, Mo 630-641 

Rosenberg, Harry L., Hyde Park Hotel, Kansas City, Mo 499-503 

Rosenberg, Hermann P., Kansas City, Mo 496-499 

Schneider, Paul J., Fairmont City, lU., accompanied by Max Sigoloff, 

attorney, St. Louis, Mo 170-179 

Skenker, Morris, attorney, St. Louis, Mo 584-587 

Simon, Paul, Madison County, 111 780-783 

Taylor, J. E., attorney general. State of Missouri 558-574 

■ Thomas, Anthony, mayor, Fairmont City, 111., accompanied by John 

Hoban, attorney, East St. Louis, 111 139-145 

Vetter, Alex, vice president, Central Missouri Trust Co., Jefferson 

Citv, Mo 448-451 

Vermillion, H. E., on behalf of Western Union, St. Louis, Mo 614-630 

Vickery, John, chief of police, Fairmont City, 111., accompanied by 

John Hoban, attorney. East St. Louis, 111 127-139 

Wagner, Rev. O. Walter, secretary. Metropolitan Church Federation, 

St. Louis, Mo 733-734 

Wallach, Stanley, prosecuting attorney, and William J. Hough, first 

assistant prosecuting attorney, St. Louis County, Mo 79-90 

Wheeler, George E., East St. Louis, 111 575-582 

Wren, Captain, gambling division, St. Louis (Mo.) Police Depart- 
ment, and Sgt. William Powell, St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department- 710-718 

Wyman, Sidney, St. Louis Mo 587-600 

Schedule of exhibits v 

Tuesdav, June 13, 1950 1 

Thursdav, June 29, 1950 35 

Tuesday^ Julv 18, 1950 67 

Wednesday, Julv 19, 1950 199 

Thursday,' Julv 20, 1950 353 

Fridav, September 29, 1950 523 

Satvirdav, September 30, 1950 537 

Fridav, February 23, 1951 549 

Saturday, February 24, 1951 687 

Appendix 793 



SCHEDULE OF EXHIBITS 



Number and summary of exhibits 



1. Statement of William Molasky, St. Louis, Mo 

2. Clipping dated July 3, 1910, and another dated Nov. 19, 

1915, from St. Louis Globe Democrat 

3. Clipping entitled "Times Newsboy Wins $950 Prize"... ._ 

4. Photostatic copy of magazine article entitled "Smilin' Bill 

Molasky" 

5. Western Union telegram dated June 29, 1949, submitted by 

William Molasky 

6. Photostatic copv of a page of the St. Louis Daily Globe 

Democrat of Dec. 19, 1949 

7. Batch of statements of account with I. M. Simon & Co. for 

Mrs. Dorothy Molasky 

8. Batch of statements of account with L M. Simon & Co. for 

William Molasky 

9. Confirmation of sales to William Molasky from I. M. Simon 

& Co 

10. Confirmation of sales to Mrs. Dorothy Molasky from I. M. 

Simon & Co 

11. Receipts of payments to Mrs. Dorothy Molasky from I. M. 

Simon &Co 

12. Receipts of payments to William Molasky from I. M. Simon 

& Co 

13. Account ledger of Pioneer News Service 

14. Stock certificate book of Pioneer News Service ._ 

15. Five stock certificates of Pioneer News Service, submitted 

by William Molasky 

16. List of gambling operations in Granite City, lU., submitted 

by Chief of Police Burnett 

17. Photostats of records and information substantiating 

testimony of Hough and Wallach, St. Louis, Mo., re 
Western Union and C. J. Rich Co 

18. Memo from Col. George White, re operations between 

Western Union agents and C. J. Rich Co ... 

19. Records of the Harlem Association, successor to Eagle 

Park lottery, submitted by J. W. Boyle, accountant 

20. Records of the Eagle Park lottery, submitted by J. W. 

Boyle, accountant : 

21. File of tax returns of Frank Hackethal, submitted by J. W. 

Boyle, accountant 

22. Partnership return and work papers for Hyde Park Club, 

submitted to the committee by a Mr. Staley, accountant 
for the Hyde Park Club 

23. List of funds received by B. E. Ragland, for specific purposes 

for State Democratic committee .'. 

24. Report of the State Democratic Club, Jefferson City, Mo., 

submitted by Edlund 

25. Records on microfilm of account of Democratic State 

committee, with Central Missouri Trust Co 

26. Records on microfilm of the account of Forrest Smith for 

Governor Club, B. E. Ragland, treasurer, opened on 
October 13, 1948, with the Central Missouri Trust Co 

27. Set of ledger sheets relating to employee's (flower) fund, 

submitted by B. E. Ragland 

See footnotes at end of table. 



Intro- 
duced 
on page- 



Appears 
on page — 



793 



5 
6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

7 
7 

7 

68 

90 
90 
94 
94 
95 

181 
309 
314 
449 

450 
454 



VI 



OONTEOSrTS 

SCHEDULE OF EXHIBITS— Continued 



Number and summary of exhibits 



28. List of campaign fund contributions from persons other than 

State employees'^ submitted by B. E. Ragland 

29. Gross receipts in the so-called flower fund, first quarter of 

1948 . 

30. Gross receipts in the so-called flower fund, second quarter 

of 1948 

31. Gross receipts in the so-called flower fund, third quarter 

of 1948 

32. Gross receipts for the so-called flower fund, for second, third, 

and fourth quarters of 1947 

33. List of donations to so-called flower fund, after Aug. 2, 1948- 

34. Receipts and disbursements sheets submitted by B. E. 

Ragland 

35. Control record showing receipts and disbursements of the 

Forrest Smith for Governor Club, submitted by Ragland. _ 

36. Bank statements of Forrest Smith for Governor Club 

37. Canceled checks of Forrest Smith for Governor Club 

38. Check books and stubs of Forrest Smith for Governor Club. _ 

39. Bank recap of the Forrest Smith for Governor Club 

40. Recap of disbursements of the Forest Smith for Governor 

Club 

41. Chart relating to various forms of racing wire service in 

St. Louis, Mo., and East St. Louis, 111., areas, including 
St. Clair and Madison Counties, 111 

42. Statement of James Ragen, Sr., given in Chicago, 111 

43. Summary of the cash receipts book of Pioneer News 

Service 

44. Folder containing circulars mailed by C. J. Rich Co 

45. Communication dated Oct. 3, 1950, from Western Union 

re activities of C. J. Rich Co 

46. List of outlets made available to Pioneer News Service, 

through the joining of the Automatic Hostess Wires 

47. Checks showing connection between Plaza Amusement Co. 

and Automatic Hostess 

48. Salary checks from Pioneer News Service endorsed by 

William Brown 

49. Records of St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department, identified 

by Captain Wren 

50. Staff memorandum setting forth alleged gang murders in 

St. Louis area 

51. List of 1,850 slot machines having Federal licenses to oper- 

ate in St. Clair County, 111 

52. St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department record of Frank (Buster) 

Wor tman 

53. St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department record of Edward 

Wortman 

54. St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department record of Louis C. 

Smith 

55. St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department records of Elmer Dowl- 

ing, Frank I^ppelsheimer, alias Frank O'Mara, and 
George William Aubright, alias Barney Barts __ 

56. St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department record of Gregory (Red) 

Moore 

57. St. Louis (Mo.) Police Department record of William 

Remphrey 

58. St. Louis (]\Io.) Police Department record of Roy Tipton. _ 

59. Advertisement, found posted on telegraph pole, for crap 

game at EI Morocco, 5 miles north of Cairo, 111 



Intro- 
duced 
on page — 



454 

454 

454 

455 

456 
456 

457 

459 
459 
459 
459 
460 

460 

558 
563 

570 
596 

599 

652 

652 

677 

711 

714 

726 

737 

745 

746 

746 

747 

747 
747 

764 



Appears 
on page— 



> On file with committee. 
» Returned to witness. 



INVESTIGATION OF OEGANIZED CEIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMEECE 



TUESDAY, JUNE 13, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To In\^stigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Washington, D. C. 
executive session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call of the chairman, at 3 : 15 
p. m., in room G^8, United States Capitol, Senator Estes Kefauver 
(chairman) presiding. 

Present : Senators Kefauver and Hunt. 

Also present : Rudolph Halley, chief counsel, and Harold G. Robin- 
son, chief investigator. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Molasky, will you be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give the com- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. INIoLASKY. Yes. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Halley, will you proceed ? 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM MOLASKY, ST. LOUIS, MO., ACCOMPANIED 
BY MOREIS A. SHENKEE, ATTORNEY, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state your address, Mr. Molasky ? 

Mr. Molasky. My name is William Molasky. I live at 2 Aberdeen 
Place, St. Louis, Mo. 

I am in the magazine, newspaper, and racing periodical distributors 
business. 

Mr. Halley. At what address ? 

Mr. Molasky. 2206 Locust Street, St. Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Halley. Did you prepare a written statement for this com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Molasky. I did. 

Mr. Halley. I show you a statement which you signed ; is this the 
statement? 

Mr. INIoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. I offer it as exliibit ISTo. 1. 

(Exhibit No. 1 appears in the appendix on p. 793.) 

The Chairman. We will let that be his direct presentation. 

Mr. Halley. His direct presentation. 



2 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. Mr. Halley, let it be shown also that Mr. Morris A. 
Shenker, attorney at law, St. Louis, is with his client, Mr. Molasky, 
at this hearing. 

Mr. MoLASKY. I am appreciative of the opportunity that was given 
to me to appear before the committee to testify under oath as to all 
my business dealings, my associations, and my activities. 

My name is William Molasky. I am 58 years of age. I was born 
and raised in the city of St. Louis, Mo. I reside with my wife at 2 
Aberdeen Place, St. Louis, Mo. I have two children and three grand- 
children. 

My business career dates back to 1898 when at the age of 6 I began 
selling newspapers at various street corners in the city of St. Louis. 
I continued in that line of occupation until about 1908 when in addi- 
tion to selling newspapers I became a local wholesale distributor for the 
Curtis Publishing Co. For a substantial period of time I was also 
the exclusive distributor for the entire downtown district of St. Louis 
of the Sunday editions of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, St. Louis Globe- 
Democrat, and the St. Louis Republic. The development of this busi- 
ness continued with the acquisition of franchises for the distribution 
of various and numerous national publications. 

Upon being married, my wife joined me in this business and when 
my boys became of age they followed the same occupation. My entire 
family is and has been continuously engaged in the distribution of 
publications. We operate under the trade name of the Pierce Building 
News Co. located at 2206 Locust Street, St. Louis, Mo. ; in New Or- 
leans as the Louisiana News Co. ; and in Kansas City, Mo., and Kansas 
City, Kans., as the Kansas City News Distributing Co. 

The publishing firms represented by us and whose publications we 
distribute are: Curtis Circulation Co., Independence Square, Phila- 
delphia, Pa.; Fawcett Publications, Inc., Fawcett Building, Green- 
wich, Conn. ; Hillman Periodicals, Inc., 535 Fifth Avenue, New York, 
N. Y. ; Independent News Co., Inc., 480 Lexington Avenue, New York, 
N. Y. ; International Circulation Division, 250 West Fifty-fifth Street, 
New York, N. Y. ; Kable News Co., 420 Lexington Avenue, New York, 
N. Y. ; Leader News Co., Inc., 114 East Forty-seventh Street, New 
York, N. Y. ; Macfadden Publications, Inc., 205 East Forty-second 
Street, New York, N. Y. ; M. L. A. Publications, 488 Madison Avenue, 
New York, N. Y. ; Pocket Books, Inc., 18 West Forty-eighth Street, 
New York, N. Y. ; Popular Publications, Inc., 205 East Forty-second 
Street, New York, N. Y. ; Publishers Distributing Corp., 1841 Broad- 
way, New York, N. Y. ; S-M News Co., Inc., 229 Fourth Avenue, New 
York, N. Y. 

In addition to the distribution of national magazines, we distribute 
the following newspapers : Chicago Daily News, Inc., 400 West Madi- 
son Street, Chicago, 111. ; Chicago Herald-American, 326 West Madi- 
son Street, Chicago, 111.; Chicago Journal of Commerce, 12 East 
Grand Avenue, Chicago, 111. ; Chicago Tribune, Tribune Square, Chi- 
cago, 111. ; the News, 220 East Forty-second Street, New York, N. Y. ; 
New York Times, Times Square, New York, N. Y. ; Chicago Sun- 
Times, 211 West Wacker Drive, Chicago, 111. ; New York Mirror, care 
of International Circulation Division, 250 West Fifty-fifth Street, New 
York, N. Y. ; Sporting News, 2018 Washington Avenue, St. Louis, Mo. ; 
New York Herald Tribune, 230 West Forty-first Street, New York, 
N. Y. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 6 

The following sport and racing periodicals : Ace Clocker, 64 West 
Randolph Street, Chicago, 111.— the name of their publication is Ace 
Clocker ; Bulletin-Eecord Publishing Co., 608 South Dearborn Street, 
Chicago, 111. — the names of their publications are Turf Bulletin Daily, 
Turf Bulletin Weekly; Cincinnati Racing Record, 320 East Third 
Street, Cincinnati, Ohio — the name of their publication is Cincinnati 
Racing Record ; Daily Sport News, 906 South Wabash Avenue, Chi- 
cago, 111. — the name of their publication is Daily Sport News; Tri- 
angle Publications, Inc., Daily Racing Form, 731 Plymouth Court, 
Chicago, 111. — the names of their publications are Daily Racing Forms, 
Racing Telegraphs ; Daily Sports Bulletin Co., 32 West Twenty-second 
Street, New York, N. Y. — the name of their publication is Sports Bul- 
letin ; Illinois Sports News, 906 South Wabash Avenue, Chicago, Ilk— 
the names of their publications are Illinois Green Sheet Daily, Illinois 
Green Sheet Weekly ; K. & T. Distributing Co., Inc., 422 West Eight- 
eenth Street, New York, N. Y. — the names of their publications are 
AVinning Horse, Man O' War, Si & Smudgie, Turf Time, Golden 
Dozen; Racing Blue Book, 1431 Broadway, New York, N. Y. — the 
name of their publication is Racing Blue Book; Sportscaster Publi- 
cations, 327 South La Salle Street, Chicago, 111. — the name of their 
publication is Sportscaster Ratings; Sporting Leader Publishing Co., 
407 South Dearborn Street, Chicago, 111. — the names of their publica- 
tions are Master Clocker Weekly, Clocker Last Minute Reports, 

We also print, publish, distribute, and sell a scratch sheet and en- 
tries. I have never engaged in bookmaking or in any commercial 
gambling. I have never had a financial interest in any gaming estab- 
lishment; and, my personal and business associates do not include 
bookmakers or professional gamblers. Even though a distributor of 
publications during my entire life, I cannot, to this date, interpret a 
racing form. 

Pioneer stock : In 1932 my family acquired 121/2 shares of stock in 
a company now known as the Pioneer News Service, Inc., at a cost 
of $25,000. On or about 1940, I acquired 22i/^ additional shares of 
that stock. The business of Pioneer News Service, Inc., is to dis- 
tribute and disseminate information pertaining to sporting events 
and other news of an unusual and sudden nature. The total number 
of shares of stock issued by that company is 100 ; 65 shares of whioli 
are owned by William Brown and his mother, Agnes Brown. There 
are no other stockholders in that corporation. 

Even though I am a minority stockholder, I have, since about 1943 
or 1944, continuously countersigned all checks for the disbursement 
of corporate funds. These funds are used to pay for the news, ordi- 
nary operating expense, salaries, and payments to stockholders and 
directors. All Pioneer employees, excepting the officers, are on full 
time. No one excepting the Brown and Molasky families has a finan- 
cial interest in Pioneer. There are no gangsters, mobsters, racketeers, 
or other persons of questionable character connected with, interested 
in, or employed by Pioneer News. 

The Pioneer News Service, Inc., is the only corporation that dis- 
seminates news of si:)orting events in which I— or my family — have a 
financial interest. We have no connections whatsoever with any wire 
service company in any other city, county, State, or municipality. 
Being a minority stockholder in Pioneer, I have never had the author- 
ity, nor did I attempt to, set the policy of Pioneer. 



4 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Western Union: Prominence was given recently by the St. Louis 
Post-Dispatch to the fact that I am the holder of 14,000 shares of 
Western Union stock with the implication that there might be some 
special reason for such ownership. The acquisition ancl ownership 
of these shares of stock has no bearing whatsoever, was not induced 
by, was not influenced, and is in no wise the result of my financial 
interest in Pioneer News Service. 

For years I made it a practice of purchasing and selling various 
listed stocks. My first purchase of Western Union stock dates back 
to 1937. I disposed of all Western Union stock in about 1943 and 
from that date until July of 1946 I did not own any stock in that com- 
pany. As a speculator, I purchased Western Union stock in July of 
1946 ; and, as a direct result of what appears to be a form letter sent 
by that company to all stockholders calling attention to certain con- 
templated technological improvements which they claimed would re- 
sult in a substantial savings in operation costs, I made a personal 
investigation at the company's offices in New York and being impressed 
by the prospects of additional earnings due to savings on labor, we 
purchased additional shares of stock in that company, all of wliich 
stock is still owned and retained by us. 

At no time did I discuss with any member of the board of directors 
or any officers of Western Union the use of their facilities by Pioneer 
or any other wire service company. I did not attend any of the annual 
meetings ; did not express an opinion to the officers or directors as to 
the policy of the corporation; and, in no wise participated in the 
operation of Western Union. 

I executed a proxy whenever one was mailed to me by the manage- 
ment and I presume the management used it in the same manner as 
they used proxies executed by other stockholders. There is serious 
doubt in my mind if any officers or directors of Western Union knew 
that I had a financial interest in Pioneer. 

I doubt if the majority stockholders of Pioneer knew of my owner- 
ship of Western Union stock. I do not recall ever discussing that 
matter with any one connected with Pioneer. In purchasing Western 
Union stock, I was guided by the same principles as I am in the pur- 
chase of any other stock listed on the New York Stock Exchange. 

Mr. Halley. Now, Mr. Molasky, do you have any other documents 
or material which you desire as part of your affirmative presentation, 
to put before this committee, or anything else you would like to say ? 

Mr. Molasky. Well, I have my Western Union receipts, Western 
Union stock receipts. I have my stock of the Pioneer News Co. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have any material about yourself which you 
care to place before the committee ? 

Mr. Molasky. If you have no objection, I would like to do so. 

Mr. Halley. You go right ahead. 

The Chairman. You go right ahead and do so. 

Mr. Molasky, I have a clipping dated July 3, 1910. It speaks for 
itself. I have a newspaper clipping of the St. Louis Globe Democrat, 
dated November 19, 1915. 

Senator Hunt. Mr. Chairman, do we wish this marked as an 
exhibit? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Senator Hunt. I will hand it to you in a couple of minutes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IflST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 5 

The Chairman. That will be exhibit No. 2. The others will follow 
in sequence. 

(Exhibit No. 2 is on file with the committee.) 

Mr. MoLASKY. I also have another dated October 1928. This was 
taken from a Hearst house organ. 

I want to introduce a plaque that I received from the Curtis Pub- 
lishing Co., which is self-explanatory. 

I also want to introduce another plaque from the S-M News Co., 
which publishes Keader's Digest, McCall magazine, Red Book, and 
several other publications. 

Mr. EUllet. Will you describe the plaques that we do not have to 
put it or them in evidence ? 

We will let the record indicate that the first is a gold-star certificate 
for maintaining satisfactory account relations from 1910 to 1948 
awarded to the Pierce Building News Co. by the Curtis Circulation 
Co., and the second is a plaque presented to William Molasky on the 
occasion of the twenty-fifth anniversary of the S-M News Co., Inc., 
presented by whom is that? Wlio presented that to you? 

Mr. Molasky. This is by Wilbur Smith, the general manager; and 
the president — I cannot make that name out. 

Mr. Halley. All right. 

Now, is there anything else you wanted to present to the committee 
with reference to yourself ? 

Mr. Molasky. I have a telegram from the vice president of Curtis 
Publishing Co., and if there is no objection I would like to present 
that. 

Mr. Halley. Surely. 

Mr. Molasky. O. K. 

Mr, Halley. Hand it right up. 

Mr. Molasky. I have several letters from various charity institu- 
tions showing my work in the community in St. Louis, if I may 
present that to you. 

I also have a letter from a publisher of the News Democrat, of 
Festus, Mo. 

Mr. Halley. Wliy don't you hand them all up at once, so that the 
committee may inspect them? 

Mr. Molasky. I have a letter dated July 31, 1946, signed by Joseph 
L. Egan, president of the Western Union. 

I also want to give you all of my stock transactions of myself and 
my wife. 

Mr. HatJjEY. May I see that, please ? 

We have a batch of purported sheets of account from a broker, I. M. 
Simon & Co. Would you state whether this batch of statements that 
you have given the committee contains all of the statements relating 
to the account of Mrs. Dorthy Molaslry that you are in possession of? 

Mr. Molasky. Those statements I am giving to you now are the 
exact statements I received from I. M. Simon & Co. of all my stock 
transactions from this date to the present time. 

Mr. Halley. And Mrs. Dorthy Molasky is your wife? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Now, you have given the committee the statements 
relating to Mrs. Molasky. Do you have your own ? 

Mr. Molasky. I have my own ; yes, sir. 



6 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. Now, Mr. Molasky, you stated to this committee that 
you requested to be heard ; is that right ? You had word sent to this 
committee ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is right : that is correct. 

Mr. Hallet. And you asked that a telegram be sent to you asking 
you to come to Washington ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And your appearance here is entirely voluntary and 
at your own request ; is that so ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is true. 

Mr. Halley. Now, do you waive any immunity for prosecution for 
any criminal matters about which you may testify here ? 

Mr. Shenker. He does. 

Mr. Halley. Will you answer for yourself ? 

Mr. Molasky. I do. 

Mr. Halley. You are accompanied here by your counsel; is that 
right? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And he has advised you of your legal rights ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Now, is there any other material that you havi. brought 
here, in response to the committee's telegram above referred to, any 
books of account or records ? 

Mr. Molasky. I have the Pioneer News Co. income tax for the 
years of 1946, 1947, 1948, and 1949. 

Mr. Halley. Are there any other records that you brought ? 

Mr. Molasky. General ledger — I believe this is the genei-al ledger, 
I know nothing about books. I believe this is the general ledger 
about the Pioneer News Co. The stock book 

Mr. Halley. Of the Pioneer News Co. ? 

Mr. Molasky ( continuing) . Of the Pioneer News Co. 

Mr. Halley. Now, to keep the record straight at this point, exhibit 
No. 3 is a new item entitled ''Times Newsboy Wins $950 Prize." 

Exhibit No. 4 is a photostatic copy of a magazine article entitled 
"Smilin' Bill Molaslr^." 

Exhibit No. 5 is a Western Union telegram dated June 29, 1949. 

Exhibit No. 6 is a photostatic copy of a page of the St. Louis Daily 
Globe Democrat of December 19, 1949. 

You offer in evidence as exhibit No. 7 a batch of statements of ac- 
count with I. M. Simon & Co. for Mrs. Dorothy Molasky. 

The Chairman. Let them be received in evidence and marked as 
exhibits as related by Mr. Halley. 

(The documents referred to were received as exhibits Nos. 3, 4, 5, 6, 
and 7, and are on file with the committee.) 

Mr. Halley. As exhibit No. 8 you have submitted a batch of state- 
ments of L M. Simon «& Co. to Mr. William Molasky. 

Exhibit No. 9 consists of confirmations of sales to Mr. William 
Molasky from I. M. Simon & Co. 

Exhibit No. 10 consists of confirmations of sales to Mrs. Dorothy 
Molasky. 

Exhibit No. 11 consists of receipts of j)ayment to Mrs. Dorothy 
Molasky ; and exhibit No. 12 consists of receipts of payment to Mr. 
William Molasky. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IflST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 7 

(The documents referred to were received as exhibits Nos. 8, 9, 10, 11, 
and 12, and were returned to the witness after analysis by the com- 
mittee. ) 

Mr. Shenker, In other words, so that the record may be clear, may 
it show that all of those papers that are identified as exhibits 8, 9, 10, 
11, and 12, that those are all the documents that were received by Mr. 
Molasky from the broker from which they purport to have been issued, 
and, that is, the only documents that he has in his possession. 

Mr. Halley. He is appearing here and has produced all of this 
voluntarily. 

Mr. Shenker. That he has those and is producing them. 

Mr. Halley. Now, Simon & Co. is the only brokerage house wdth 
which you have dealt ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. From 1937 to the present date. 

Mr. Halley. Is that true of your wife? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And to the best of your knowledge, is that true of the 
other members of your family ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. As exhibit No. 13, we have an account ledger of the 
Pioneer News Co. ; and exhibit No. 14 is a stock certificate book of the 
Pioneer News Co. 

(T]ie documents referred to were received as exhibits Nos. 13 and 14 
and were later returned to the witness.) 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Molasky, have you any other records that you have 
produced and desire to produce at this time ? 

Mr. Molasky. Did I give you my stock certificates ? 

Mr. Halley. You cfid not. 

Mr. Molasky. Here they are. 

Mr. Halley. A batch of five stock certificates of the Pioneer News 
Co., numbered 23, 14, 15, 12, and 13, are received as exhibit No. 15. 

(The documents referred to were identified as exhibit No. 15, and 
were later returned to the witness.) 

Mr. Halley. The chairman suggests that these, having been re- 
ceived, w411 be returned to you for your custody. 

Mr. Molasky. Thank you. 

The Chairman. They represent how much stock ? 

Mr. Molasky. Thirty-five shares. 

Mr. Halley. Now, will you state the circumstances which led you 
to request that you be called by this committee ? 

Mr. Molasky. There was an article in the St. Louis Sunday Post- 
Dispatch in reference to me and my wife owning 14,000 shares of 
Western Union. 

On a Saturday before the Sunday Post-Dispatch came out, a Post- 
Dispatch reporter came into my office and told me that he had a tip 
that Mrs. Molasky and myself owned 14,000 shares of Western Union. 

Mr. Halley. Fourteen thousand ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir; 14,000. 

I told the Post-Dispatch reporter that it was none of his business 
to pry into my personal affairs. 

He asked me what I paid for the stock, and I told him also it was 
none of his business. 

He asked me also why did I buy it, and I told him it was none of 
his business. Then he left. 



8 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Sunday morning or Sunday noon — I don't know to be exact — 
after seeing the article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, I immediately 
called Aaron Benesch — I don't know whether he is the city editor or 
the assistant city editor of the St. Louis Star — and I told him that I 
would like for him to come to my home as I would like to make a 
statement to him, which I did. 

I also told him I would like to come before this committee and tell 
them everything and anything that I can honestly tell you. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat is it you want to tell this committee ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Anything you may want to ask me. 

Mr. Shenker. In order that the committee may be properly ad- 
vised, Mr. Molasky became perturbed, particularly by the insinuation 
in that article, and I am just giving it in the form of an explanatory 
note, by the article which implied — it did not say it, but implied — • 
that there may be some control or undue preferences procured by Mr. 
Molasky by virtue of the ownership of stock of Western Union, and 
it was by inference critical of Western Union, as well as of Mr. Mo- 
lasky, and attempted by implication to associate the distribution of 
race wire service with Western Union, and that is the reason why 
that was resented very much by Mr. Molasky, as I understand it, and 
that was the reason that he inquired and requested that he be heard 
here. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you, but, Mr. Molasky, what is it that you want 
to tell the committee ? 

Mr. Molasky. In this statement, it explains everything that I want 
to tell you, unless there is anything 

Mr. Halley. Everything you want to say is in the statement, is 
that right ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Now, it is your conclusion that you have had nothing 
to do with the policy of the Pioneer News Service, is that riirht ? 

Mr. INIoLASKY. I never had nothing to do with the policy of the 
Pioneer News Co. from 1932, when I bought stock of the then called 
Central News Co. or Pioneer News Co,, to this present date. 

Mr. Halley. Does the remainder of the conclusion that you want 
this commitee to hear from you consist of your statement, at the end 
of your written presentation, in which you say — 

In purchasing Western Union stock, I was guided by the same principles as 
I am in the purchase of any other stock listed on the New York Stock Exchange. 

Mr. Molasky. Absolutely. 

Mr. Shenker. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. When did you first become interested in Pioneer News 
Service or any predecessor company ? 

Mr. Molasky. I believe it was, I am not sure whether it was Janu- 
ary, February, or March of 1932. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state the circumstances to the committee? 

Mr. Molasky. There was a Mr. C. L. Owens asked me if I would 
be interested in buying a half interest of the Central News or Pioneer 
News Co., so I told him I would be interested, providing the price is 
reasonable. 

He then told me that they wanted $100,000 for a half interest of 
that company. I then told him I would discuss this with Mr. Annen- 
berg, and ask him if he and his associates would be interested in buying 
this half interest. 



ORGANIZED CRIME KN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 9 

Mr. Halley. You are referring to Moe Annenberg; is that right? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Annenberg made a trip to St. 
Louis and spoke to Mr. Owens himself. 

Mr. Halley. At that time was the wire service in operation? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And who owned it then ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. At that time, to the best of my judgment, it was that 
Mr. Annenberg either owned 50 percent of the service or owned it all, 
I don't know. 

ISIr. Halley. You are now talking about Continental ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It was not called Continental at that time. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat was it then called ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It was called, if I am not mistaken. General News 
Bureau. 

Mr. Halley. And the service in St. Louis was called what ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Either Central News or Pioneer News. 

Mr. Halley. And who owned the St. Louis service ? 

Mr. MoLASKY, Gully Owens and Paul Brown. 

Mr. Halley. Brown ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And Owens came to you ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You said you would have to talk to Mr. Annenberg? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. At that time was Pioneer, or its predecessor, buying 
its news service from Mr. Annenberg? 

Mr. MoLASKY. To the best of my knowledge they were. 

Mr. Halley. And at that time had you been an associate of Mr. 
Annenberg ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I was. 

Mr. Halley. Will you describe the business relationships which 
you had with Moe Annenberg prior to your buying an interest in 
Pioneer ? 

Mr. Molasky, We had a magazine and newspaper distribution busi- 
ness in Kansas City, Mo, We also had a magazine and newspaper and 
racing periodical distribution in New Orleans. 

Mr. Halley. Wlien you say "We had," who were the parties in 
interest ? 

Mr. Molasky. I will explain that to you. 

In Kansas City, either myself or a member of — my wife, owned 50 
percent of that agency, and Mr. Annenberg owned the other 50 percent. 

Mr. Halley. What was that agency called? 

Mr. Molasky. Kansas City News Distributors, Inc., I believe, at 
that time. 

Mr. Halley. Do you still own that service? 

Mr. Molasky. We do, the family does, my family does, 

Mr. Halley. What is that service, a newspaper service? 

Mr. Molasky. Magazine and newspapers only, and distribution of 
racing publications, 

Mr. Halley. Where did they get their information? 

Mr. Molasky. What information? 

Mr. Halley. That is printed in the papers. Do you publish papers? 

Mr. Molasky. Not in Kansas City. 



10 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. You simply distributed? 
Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 
Mr. Halley. What is the New Orleans business ? 
Mr. MoLASKY. In New Oreleans there is a similar operation as 
Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. With Mr. Annenberg as partner at that time ? 
Mr. Molasky. He was a partner at that time. 
Mr. Halley. Who took over Annenberg's interests? 
Mr. Molasky. I don't remember exactly what year it was, it was 
between 1932 and 1936 I bought Mr. Annenberg's interest in the 
Kansas City News Co., and in New Orleans. 

Mr. Halley. How long had you been in business with Annenberg 
prior to 1932? 

Mr. Molasky. From, I believe it was, in 1928. From then — be- 
tween 1924 and 1928. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any other business dealings with Annen- 
berg, other than those that you have described ? 
Mr. Molasky. Business, no, not that I can remember. 
Mr. Halley. In 1932, when Mr. Gully Owens came to you and asked 
you if you wanted to buy a part of Pioneer, who then owned Pioneer; 
Owens and Brown ? 

Mr. Molasky. Owens and Brown were the sole owners of that 
business. 
Mr. Halley. Fifty-fifty? 
Mr. Molasky. I assume so ; yes. 

]Mr. Halley. Did either one of them want to sell out or did they 
simply want to bring you in as a partner ? 

Mr. Molasky. No ; they wanted to bring me in as a partner and sell 
50 percent. 
Mr. Halley. And did you buy it? 
Mr. Molasky. I did. 

Mr. Halley. Did you speak to Annenberg before you bought it ? 
Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What did he say and what did you say about it ? 
Mr. Molasky. He says, "If you think we can make some money out 
of it, go ahead and buy it." 

Mr. Halley. Who bought it, you and Annenberg together ? 
Mr. Molasky. I bought it with Mr. Annenberg, and there was a 
gentleman by the name of C. S. Kruse, and Eagen, James Ragen. 

Mr. Halley. You, Kruse, and Ragen then bought 50 percent, and 
Annenberg bought 50 percent of Pioneer ? 
Mr. Molasky. For $100,000. 

Mr. Halley. And your share of it was how much ? 
Mr. Molasky. Twelve and a half shares, for which I paid $25,000. 
Mr. Halley. There were a hundred shares outstanding? 
Mr. ISIoLAsKY. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Halley. And still are? 

Mr. MoL^\.SKY. Yes, sir. And the balance of the $75,000 was paid 
by Annenberg and Kruse. 

Mr. Halley. Would you identify your other associates? Is Ragen 
the James Ragen who was the head of Continental Press Service, and 
who was murdered a few years ago ? 

Mr. Molasky. He was the man ; yes. I don't know whether he had 
the stock under his own name or under his children's name. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 11 

Mr. Halley. And Kruse, what business was he in ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Kruse at that time was general manager for M. L. 
Annenberg. 

Mr. Halley. Now, Annenberg also sold the wire service to Pioneer, 
is that right ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. HaixLey. When Owens came to you, was he coming with a sug- 
gestion of his own, or was he acting in response to pressure from the 
Annenberg interests ? 

JNIr. MoLASKY. He got no pressure from the Annenberg interests 
whatsoever. 

Mr. Halley. Can you suggest what his purpose was in selling out 
a half interest to Annenberg and Annenberg's associates? 

Mr. Molasky. I suggested it; yes. 

Mr. Halley. You suggested it? 

Mr. Molasky. No, I suggested to Annenberg to buy, that it was a 
good business, a good buy, that we could make some money out of it. 

Mr. Halley. Well, can you suggest why Owens and Brown, who 
had apparently a good business, wanted to sell half of it back to 
Annenberg, who provided the wire service ? 

Mr. Molasky. That I cannot answer you why they sold it. But 
there never was no pressure brought to bear. 

Mr. Halley. When Owens came to you, were you surprised that 
he offered it to you ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes; I was. 

]\Ir. Halley. And did he offer it to you alone or did he say he was 
offering it to you and Annenberg ? 

]Mr. Molasky. He says, "I will sell it to you, Molasky," and I told 
him that I could not buy it until I talked to Mr, Annenberg. 

Mr. Halley. What is the business of Pioneer ? 

Mr. Molasky. Pioneer News disseminates sporting news and 
racing results. 

Mr. Halley. Its exact name is Pioneer News Service, Inc., is that 
right? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. In what State is it incorporated ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't remember. I think it is in Delaware, I am 
not sure. 

Mr. Halley. Have you got the certificates ? 

Mr. Shenker. Delaware. 

Mr. Halley. And you now own 35 shares, is that correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Shenker. He and his family. 

Mr. Molasky. I control 35 shares. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state the circumstances under which you 
acquired the remaining shares? As I understood it, you acquired 
121/2 shares in 1932. 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know whether it was in the year 1940 or 
1939, Mr. Annenberg gave me his stock for $1. 

Mr. Halley. And how much stock did he have at that time ? 

Mr. Molasky. Twenty-two and one-half shares. 

Mr. Halley. And you paid him no other consideration at any time? 

Mr. Molasky. Not for nothing outside of the $1. 

6S95S — 51 — pt. 4a li 



12 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Was the gift tax paid on that transaction? 

Mr. MoLASKY. By me? 

]Mr. Halley. By anyone, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That, I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know why none was paid ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Wliat was the question? 

Mr. Halley. Do you know why no gift tax was paid on that trans- 
action ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. What was the discussion leading to that sale ? What 
were the circumstances? 

Mr. Molasky. The only thing I know of is I got, I received, a letter 
which I believe you can get a copy of it, the original letter, that he is 
selling the stock to me for $1, and that was the only discussion that 
I had. 

Mr. Halley. You mean there was no discussion ; you just received 
the letter? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And you did not question that? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have a copy of that letter in your files? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have not got a copy, but I can tell you where you 
can get a copy. 

Mr. Halley. Will you do so? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir ; if you will get in touch with Joe First at 
the Philadelphia Inquirer in Philadelphia, Pa., I am sure he has a 
copy of that letter. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know how he got a copy of it ? 

Mr. Molasky. Well, he was connected with M. L. Annenberg, and 
he now is, I believe, their attorney for Walter Annenberg, so I guess 
it was in Mr. Annenberg's files, and that is how he received a copy of it.; 

Mr. Halley. What is the business of Pioneer? You say it dis- 
seminates sports information? 

Mr. Molasky. Sporting news and racing information. 

Mr. Halley. Does it publish any newspapers or periodicals? 

Mr. Molasky. Does it publish any newspapers ? 

Mr. Halley. Or periodicals? 

Mr. Molasky. The Pioneer does not publish any newspapers or 
periodicals, but I publish a scratch sheet for Pioneer News Co. 

Mr. Halley. You publish it yourself ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. When you say you publish it for Pioneer News Co., 
will you state the business arrangement which exists ? 

Mr. Molasky. I pay the Pioneer News Co. $75 a week for the entries 
and scratches and morning line. 

Mr. Halley. Do you sell that scratch sheet on the streets? 

Mr. MoKtVSKY. I put it on all newsstands and every stand or news- 
boy or whoever wants to buy it from me. 

Mr. Halley. What do you charge for it? 

Mr. Molasky. They pay 20 or 21 cents; it may be 22. 

Mr. Halley. AVliat does it retail for? 

Mr. Molasky. Twenty-five cents. 

The Chairman. Let us see that scratch sheet. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 13 

Mr. MoLASKT. I also give you Chicago American, Chicago Herald- 
American, dated June 9, which practically has the same thing that 
I have. 

Mr. Halley. Wliere does Pioneer News get its information ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Pioneer News gets its information from the Conti- 
nental Press. 

Mr. Halley. In what form does that information come? 

Mr. MoLASKY. To the best of my knowledge it comes through West- 
ern Union tickers or Western Union wire. 

Mr. Halley. Does it go right to the offices of Pioneer News ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It goes directly to the office of the Pioneer News Co. 

Mr. Halley. Wliere is that office located ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. 1018 Fullerton Building, St. Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Halley, You have in that building then a ticker, a news ticker ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. On a leased Western Union wire, is that right ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And for that service the Continental News is paid, 
is that right ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr, Halley. Are they paid on a monthly basis, weekly, or 

Mr. MoLASKY. To the best of my knowledge it is paid weekly. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat is the rate at the present time ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. $540 per week. 

Mr. Halley. What information comes into that ticker? 

Mr. Molasky. Descriptions of various races in the United States. 

Mr. Halley. Does the news purport to come at the same time that 
the race is being run ? 

Mr. Molasky. They will also give us news of great importance, 
they will give you flashes. At times they give you pictures of baseball 
teams, who is going to pitch ; sometimes they give us scores at various 
ball games. 

Mr. Halley. Turning back to the races for the moment, is the news 
supposed to come simultaneously with the runing of the race ? 

Mr. Molasky. It does come simultaneously with the race. 

Mr. Halley. The idea is to have no delay, is that correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. That, I don't know, but it comes, it comes as the 
races are running. 

Mr. Halley. Who negotiated the price of $540 a week with Conti- 
nental News ? 

Mr. Molasky. That price was established by Clarence Owens. 

Mr. Halley, How was that established, and when ? 

Mr. Molasky. Somewhere between 1933 or 1935, I am not quite 
sure. 

Mr. Halley. It has not been changed since 1933 or 1935 ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't think so. 

Mr, Halley, Is there any written contract ? 

Mr. Molasky. There was no written contract. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat was the price before the present price ? 

Mr. Molasky, To the best of my knowledge it was that the Pioneer 
News or Central News paid around $1,000 or $1,200 a week for it. 

Mr, Halley, Prior to 1933 or 1935 ? 

Mr. Molasky, Prior to that time ; yes. 



14 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. "What did it pay prior to your buying an interest in it? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That I don't know. 

Mr. Hauley. Would it be around the $1,200 figure? 

Mr. MoLASKY. 1 can't answer because I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. What did it pay at the time you bought the interest? 

Mr. MoLASKY. To the best of my knowledge that they were paying; 
around $750 to $1,000 a week. 

Mr. Halley. After you bought your interest did the price go up ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I don't know that is what they were paying, because 
I don't know what they were paying before I got into the pict^ure. 

Mr. Halley. Well, you mentioned a $1,200 a week price. 

Mr. MoLASKY. I say it might have been $1,000 or $1,200, something 
in that figure, I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. And that was the price that was being paid at the 
time you purchased your stock? 

Mr. MoLASKY. To the best of my knowledge, I think it was in that 
figure. 

Mr. Halley. Then there was a revision downward to $540 a week? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Do you care to comment on whether there was any 
connection between the purchase of stock by you and Mr. Annenberg 
and the reduction in price ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It had nothing to do with it whatsoever. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state what did have to do with it? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Well, to the best of my knowledge it was that they 
were not doing any business, and Mr. Owens went in to see Ragen, 
and asked for a cut in his service, and I believe Mr. Ragen cut his 
service. 

Mr. Haley. When you say "cut the service," what do you mean 
by that ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. He cut the bill down. He cut the amount he was 
paying to that amount. 

Mr. Halley. He continued to purchase the same information, 
though ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Did you go with Mr. Owens when he went to see 
Mr. Reagan? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. Is it possible that you did ? 

Mr. Molasky. It is possible that I did. 

Mr. Halley. What does Pioneer do with the news that it receives 
on this Western Union ticker? 

Mr. Molasky. Pioneer News, to the best of my knowledge, sells to 
their subscribers, whoever wants to buy it. 

Mr. Halley. How does it deliver the news to its subscribers? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't have anything to do with that department. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have the knowledge, though ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't have no knowledge of how it is being han- 
dled. My only interest, and the only work that I have did there has 
been countersigning checks. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever in the office of the Pioneer News ? 

Mr. Molasky. Was I what ? 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever in the office ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. ; 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 15 

Mr. Halley. When was the last time you were in the office ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I was in the office last Friday, Friday or, perhaps, 
Saturday. 

Mr. Halley. Wlien were you there before that ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Might have been there two or three times during the 
week. 

Mr, Halley. Are you there during the week ? 

Mr. MoLASKY, I will come up there an average 2 or 3 days a week. 

Mr. Halley. And you look around and see the nature of the opera- 
tion, in general, do you not? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Now, you told me in my office this morning that the 
news was distributed on telephone wires and telegraph wires, is that 
right ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halljby. Why do you say now under oath that you have no 
knowledge of how the news was distributed ? 

Mr. Molasky. I mean I have nothing to do with the selling of it. 

Mr. Halley. That is not the question. The question is how^ is the 
news which Pioneer receives, as you have testified, from Western 
Union on the ticker, distributed to Pioneer's customers ? 

Mr. Molasky. By telephones, 

Mr. Shenker. You mean the means that you send it on. How is it 
sent out ? 

Mr. Molasky. It is sent out by telephones. 

Mr. Halley. Telephones? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Telegraph, too ? 

Mr. Molasky. Telegraph. 

Mr. Halley. Do some of Pioneer's customers rent telegraph wires 
from Western Union? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge they do. 

Mr. Halley. And some rent telephone wires, is that right ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. Halley. Does Pioneer itself rent any wires ? 

Mr. Molasky. They rent the ticker that they have of Western 
Union, is rented from Western Union. 

Mr. Halley. That is for its incoming service. But how does it get 
the wires for its outgoing service to its customers ? 

Mr. Molasky. That, Bill Brown handles that. I have never made 
no arrangement with no Western Union or no telephone company 
or nobody else. 

Mr. Halley. But you do know that the information is distributed 
on the telephone, by telegraph, do you not ? 

Mr, Molasky, Telephone and telegraph, that is true, 

Mr. Halley. And you have known it right along ? 

Mr. Molasky. That it comes in that way and give it out. 

Mr. Halley. Now, who are the customers who purchase that 
information ? 

Mr. Molasky. Bill Brown handles all of that. I have never spoke 
to a customer, I have never made a price from 

Mr. Shenker. Just a minute — go ahead and finish your statement. 
I would like to — go ahead and finish your statement. 



16 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have never made a price or solicited any one cus- 
tomer to do business with Pioneer News Co. from 1932 to this present 
date. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever spoken to any of these customers, 
whether to make prices or for any other reasons ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have never spoken to any of them with reference 
to prices. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever spoken to them in reference to any- 
thing? Have you ever met any of the customers of Pioneer News 
Service ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state the names of the customers you 
have met? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have met Jimmy Carroll, and I have met a boy by 
the name of Leach Cross. 

Mr. Halley. How do you spell that name ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. L-e-a-c-h C-r-o-s-s. 

Mr. Halley. Any others? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is the best of my knowledge of talking to any 
of them; that is the only two that I can remember talking to. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have a list of the customers of Pioneer News 
Service ? 

Mr, MoLASKY. I understand several weeks ago, I was attending a 
convention of niagazine and newspaper distributors at the Shoreham 
Hotel at Washington ; at that time I understand the McFarland com- 
mittee, was it, had wired Bill Brown for the names and addresses of 
all of his customers, and I understand that he had sent it to the 
McFarland committee. 

Mr. Halley. Do the names of the customers appear in the ledger 
which you have brought here ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I don't know ; I don't know that. 

Mr. Halley. Would you look at it ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I don't know the first thing about the books. 

Mr. Halley. Well, perhaps your lawyer would look at it and see 
if the ledger carries the names of the customers. 

Mr. Shenker. I might add for the record that I looked at it after 
discussing this matter with Mr. Halley, and have not been able to 
find them. Apparently that is not the book that contains all of that, 
but that is the complete ledger. 

Mr. Halley. Well, it could not be a complete ledger without the 
names of the customers. 

Mr. Shenker. Well, I am not a booldieeper, so I do not know, but it 
does appear to contain all of the income and expenditures and the 
general financial condition of the company, and telephone cost and 
what not, but I do not find the names of the customers. 

I do know though of my own knowledge that the information was 
sent in to the McFarland committee. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Molasky, do you know the names of any other 
customers ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't think I do. 

Mr. Halley. On what basis is the infonnation sold by Pioneer to 
its customers, on the basis of a weekly rate? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't handle that. William Brown handles that 
business. His father handled it ; Mr. Owens 



ORGANIZED CRIME UN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 17 

Mr. Shenker. That is not the question though, Mr. Molasky. He 
asked you a specific question, on what basis is it, a weekly, monthly, 
daily, yearly, of what ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge, some of them by the 
week, and some are by the month. 

Mr. Halley. You buy it yourself for the purpose of this sheet you 
publish, is that right, this scratch sheet? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And you pay $75 per week? 

]Mr. Molasky. Per week, every week, and I mail a check each week. 

Mr. Halley. Do any pay more? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge, some of their subscrib- 
ers pay anywhere from $25 a week up to $300 a week. 

Mr. Halley. Who pays $300 a week, do you know ? 

Mr. Molasky. I couldn't tell you unless you looked at the books. 

Mr. Halley. Does anybody pay over $300 a week, do you know, 
one way or the other? 

Mr. Molasky. It might run $350. 

Mr. Halley. Now, in what business are the subscribers to the 
Pioneer News Service ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge they are subscribers — 
I don't know what business they are in. I couldn't honestly prove wdiat 
business they are in. 

Mr. Halley. Aside from proving, what is the best of your informa- 
tion on the subject? 

Mr. Molasky. I couldn't — I can't answer because I don't know 
what they are. 

Mr. Halley. Well, do you not know, to the best of your information, 
that they are bookmakers in the business of taking bets on horse races? 

Mr. Molasky. I assume some of them are. 

Mr. Halley. Well, when you assume some of them are, do you not 
know, as well as anybody could know, without being in their premises, 
that they are bookmakers? 

Mr. Molasky. No, sir, I would not know. I had never been in their 
premises, and I have never talked to them. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know who publishes newspapers, scratch 
sheets, magazines, or any other kind of publications dealing with 
racing in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Molasky. The St. Louis Globe Democrat. 

Mr. Halley. Anyone else? 

Mr. Molasky. The St. Louis Star, that is all. 

Mr Halley. Do they subscribe to the Pioneer News Service ? 

Mr. Molasky. At this time they do not. To the best of my recollec- 
tion they do not at this time. 

Mr. Halley. Now, aside from people who publish racing informa- 
tion, can you think of any other reason why anybody would be willing 
to pay as much as $300 a week for racing information over a telephone 
and telegraph wire, other than to run a book and take bets ? 

Mr. Molasky. I can't answer that ; I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Can you think of any other reason except to take bets 
that anybody would be purchasing 

Mr. Molasky. I can't answer that question ; I don't know. 



18 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Well, you can answer whether yon can think of any 
other reason that anybody would want to buy that information from 
Pioneer News. 

Mr. MoLASKY. That to the best of my knowledge is that they just 
subscribe for it. What their purpose is I can't honestly answer it. 

Mr. Haluey. Well, you have been in business in St. Louis since 
1908, and you have been publishing various publications about sport- 
ing events ; is that right ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Not from 1908. 

Mr. Halley. Since when? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have been publishing from about 1928 or 1930. 

Mr. Halley. And you have been an owner of a 35-percent interest 
in Pioneer News since 1940. 

Mr. MoLASKY. No — that is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And an owner of 121/2 percent since 1932. 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And you publish a scratch sheet ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And you are familiar with the general meaning of a 
scratch sheet and how people bet on horses, I presume? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, I don't know how they bet on horses. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know what is on your scratch sheet that you 
publish and charge the public 24 cents for ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes ; we get out the odds on the morning line scratches 
and odds. 

Mr. Halley. And that has to do with betting on races, does it not? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I assume it does. 

Mr. Halley. You publish it, do you not ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It is the morning line; I publish it and I sell it to 
anybody who wants to buy it. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat is it read for? What would anybody in his 
right senses read it for? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I assume they buy it for all purposes ; some of them 
may buy it to see what the odds are and some of them might make 
wagers on it. 

Mr, Halley. Can you see any reason why anybody would buy the 
Pioneer News Service except in connection with making wagers on 
horse racing? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No ; I can't. 

Mr. Halley. Just name one other reason that you can think of. 

Mr. MoLASKY, I can't think of no other reason, 

Mr, Haixey, Do you own any race horses? 

Mr, MoLASKY. I have never owned a race horse in my life. 

Mr. Halley. Do you breed any? 

Mr, MoLASKY, Sir? 

Mr. Halley. Do you breed horses, race horses ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, sir ; I can't even read a racing form. 

Mr, Shenker. You mean you cannot interpret it. 

Mr. MoLASKY. I mean I cannot interpret it. 

Mr. Halley. We are agreed that the business of Pioneer News, to 
the best of your knowledge, is to buy information primarily about the 
running of horse races, and the odds on horse races, from Continental 
News, and to distribute that by wire, telephone and telegraph, to 
persons who pay a weekly rate for that service, is that right? 



ORGANIZED CRIME UN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 19 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Hallet. And to the best of your knowledge you can't think 
o'f any reason why anybody would buy that service except for the 
purpose of betting on horse races ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Well, I don't say that they buy it for betting on 
horses. 

Mr. Halley. But you cannot think of any other reason? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I say I can't think of any other reason. I don't say 
that is what they buy it for, I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. 'Would you say, to the best of your knowledge, that at 
least some of your customers do take bets on horse races ? 

]\Ir. MoLASKY. I assume that some of them use it for bookmaking. 

Mr. Halley. Then, at least some of the customers of Pioneer News 
are in the bookmaking business ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I assume so. 

Mr. Halley. And those customers purchase the news that comes 
over the Continental wire, from Pioneer at the weekly rate, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. MoLSKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And they get that news, in turn, over telephone or 
telegraph wires from Pioneer ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is corect. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat is your function at Pioneer ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Would you please repeat that question? 

Mr. Halley. What are your duties at Pioneer? Are you an officer 
of Pioneer? 

Mr. MoLASKY. My duties in Pioneer News Co. has been only counter- 
signing checks. I have never had nothing to do with the policy of the 
business, the operation of the business. 

Mr. Halley. You are vice president, are you not ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you been vice president ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I believe since Paul Brown died. 

Mr. Halley. When was that? 

Mr. MoLASKY. He died about 2 or 3 years ago. 

INIr. Halley. Did you have any office in the company before Mr. 
Brown died? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I believe I was secretary or treasurer. 

Mr. Halley. Did you draw a salary from Pioneer in 1949 ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I did. 

Mr. Halley. The corporation income tax return shows that you 
drew $26,600, is that correct, in salaries ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. If my tax report reads that, that is what I received. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat did you do for that salary ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. All I did was countersign checks. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever had any other duties for Pioneer? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have never did anything else but countersigned 
checks. 

Mr. Halley. Did Pioneer pay a dividend in 1949 ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my recollection it paid a dividend. I 
believe the minute book speaks for itself. 

Mr. Halley. Will you answer the question ? 

Mr. Molasky. I believe they did in 1949. 

Mr. Halley. How much of a dividend was paid in 1949 ? 



20 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. INIoLASKY. I don't remember. Mr. Slienker told you this morn- 
ing, after looking at the minute book, I believe he said it was some- 
thing like $400 a share, was it? 

Mr. Halley. $400 a share? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Or a total of $40,000, is that right? 

Mr. Shenker. Yes. 

Mr. MoLASKY. $40,000, yes. 

Mr. Halley. Perhaps we had better confirm that. Would you look 
at the minute book and testify ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is the stock book. 

Mr. Halley. Do we have the minute book here? I would like to 
put that in evidence. 

Mr. Shenker. I just noticed we did not have that. 

Mr. Halley. While we are looking for that figure, are you a director 
in Pioneer News Co. ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Vice president, and I guess I am a director, too, I 
don't know. 

Mr. Halley. While the figure is being looked for, in 1948, according 
to the corporation income tax return, you drew a salary of $10,375, and 
that your capacity then was treasurer, is that your recollection? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I believe that is the truth. 

Mr. Halley. How is the salary fixed each year? You apparently 
perform the same duties each year of simply signing checks. 

Mr. Molasky. Wlien Mr. Owens died, Mr. Brown suggested that I 
take a salary of the amount he is getting, and he said, "Molasky, you are 
going to get so much salary." He was the one who suggested for me to 
get that salary after Owens died. 

Mr. Halley. How are the salaries fixed each year? They seem to 
vary. For instance, William Brown received $1,700 in 1948, and 
$22,800 in 1949. Those salaries were fixed how ? 

Mr. Molasky. Those salaries were made by Paul Brown when he 
was alive. 

Mr. Halley. Well, Paul Brown, deceased, received $6,600 in 1948, 
and $14,000 in 1949. Is there any way — you as a director must have 
voted these salaries ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is right; I did. 

Mr. Halley. On what basis were they voted, and when? Do the 
minutes show ? 

Mr. Molasky. I believe the minute book speaks for itself. 

Mr. Halley. "VMiat does the minute book show on the salaries of 
1949 as to the date when they were voted ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know. 

Senator Hunt. Is Paul Brown the same Paul Brown 

Mr. Molasky. No, sir; Paul Brown is dead. Paul Brown is the 
father of William Brown, who now controls 65 shares of Pioneer 
stock. 

Mr. Shenker. May the record show that the minutes show that on 
the 19th day of February 1949 they were voting and determining the 
salaries beginning with February 28, 1949. 

Mr. Halley. On what date, I am sorry ? 

Mr. Shenker. On the 19th of February. 

Mr. Halley. 1949? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 21 

Mr. Shenker. That is correct; that the salaries on the new sched- 
ule to begin as of February 28, 1949, that is when they were to begin. 

Mr. Halley. Were you present at such a meeting on February 19, 
1949, at which the salaries were voted? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I was. 

Mr. Halley. Where was that meeting held ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I don't remember. Do the minutes show it? The 
minutes show just where it was at. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state where the minutes show it was at? 

Mr. Shenker. At the company office, 1018 FuUerton Building. 

Mr. Halley. In St. Louis? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are you quite certain that you were in St. Louis on 
that day and that such a meeting took place ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. On what basis was the salary fixed of $26,600? 

Mr. Shenker. Mr. Halley, as I suggest, as I told you before, those 
were made by Mr, Paul Brown. He was 

Mr. Halley. What is that? 

Mr. Molasky. He was the one said, "This is the salary you are going 
to get." 

Mr. Halley. Was it a weekly rate? 

Mr. Molasky. It was a weekly salary. 

Mr. Halley. Well, Mr. Brown was dead in 1949 ; was he not? 

Mr. Molasky. Well, this was done before he died ; the weekly salary 
was made before he died. 

Mr. Halley. In 1949? 

What is your salary for 1950 ? 

Mr. Molasky. Eight now it is $250 a week. 

Mr. Halley. When was it fixed at that rate? 

Mr. Molasky. I believe as of — I believe in the last 3 or 4 weeks. 

Mr. Halley. Was there a directors' meeting at that time ? 

Mr. Molasky. There was. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio suggested that salary ? 

Mr. Molasky. Bill Brown. 

Mr. Halley. How was it fixed ? Did you have any discussion about 
it? 

Mr. Molasky. Well, the business, he says, has dropped to nothing, 
and he says that we had better take that out. We are only going to 
take $250 a week. 

Mr. Halley. Now, getting back to 1949, at what rate was that 
$26,000 paid ? Was that at so much a week or was it 

Mr. Molasky. It was a weekly check. 

Mr. Halley. Of how much ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge it was either $500 or 
$550, 1 don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Did you get such a check all through 1949 ? 

Mr. Molasky. I have got that particular — I have got that check 
and have reported that in my income tax. 

Mr. Halley. Did you get a check each week for $500 ? 

Mr. Molasky. I received a check e ich week. 

Mr. Halley. And you deposited it in your checking account each 
week? 



22 OEGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MoLASKY. I deposited it in my bank account, and in my own 
personal income tax I show every penny I received from the Pioneer 
News Co. from the day I first was in office. 

Mr. Halley. I want to get it perfectly straight. On February 19 
you were voted a salary of $26,600, payable weekly; is that correct? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And thereafter you received a check for five-hundred- 
and-some-odd dollars? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Less 20 percent. 

Mr. Shexker. In order to be correct, I do not think he meant to 
say that it was voting $26,500 to be paid weekly, but on the contrary 
it showed that the weekly salary will be so much. 

Mr. Halley. Will you read what it shows ? 

Mr. Shenker. According to the records it shows : 

Resolved, That beginning February 28, 1949, and continuing until otherwise 
voted upon, the salary of William Molasky shall be $550 per week. 

Mr. Halley. Now, Mr. Molasky, was the basis of your salary the 
income of the firm or the work you did ? 

Mr. Molasky. It was the income of the firm. 

Mr. Halley. In other words, when the firm made money, salaries 
went up ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You did no more work than in the days when you 
earned $3,000 a year; is that correct? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. In addition to the $40,000 dividend, of which you 
received, I presume, 35 percent; is that correct? 

Mr. Molasky. No; there were 35 shares. I believe the family 
received $14,000. 

Mr. Halley. In addition to that, did Pioneer ever pay any other 
dividends ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my recollection, I don't think Pioneer 
paid any dividend for the past 10 years. 

Mr. Halley. But you have received a salary from them since 1932 ? 

INIr. Molasky. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How much? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my recollection, from 1932 to 1940, 
inclusive, I received a salary, to the best of my knowledge, of around 
$75 a week. 

Mr. Halley. And then after 1940? 

Mr. Molasky. From 1940 to 1942, to the best of my knowledge, I 
didn't get anything; and I believe to the best of my knowledge in 
1943, 1944, and perliaps 1945, and part of 1946, I still got $75 a 
week. 

The Chairman. Mr. Halley, Senator Hunt is going to have to re- 
turn to his office for an engagement he has there, and perhaps he 
would like to ask some questions of Mr. Molasky before leaving. 

Senator Hunt. No ; I do not believe I have any. 

Mr. Halley. You own some stock in Western Union Co.; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. You and your family? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 



ORGANIZED CRIME liN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 23 

Mr. Halle Y. Would you state the holdings you have in Western 
Union ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I have 7,000 shares of Western Union stock. 

Mr. Halley. And your wife? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Seven thousand shares of Western Union. 

Mr. Halley. Any other members of your family own Western 
Union stock? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir ; both of my sons own 2,000 shares apiece. 

Mr. Halley. Do any other members of your family own stock? 

Mr. MoLASKY. My daughter-in-law owns 50 shares. 

Mr. Halley. Is all that stock held in your own names, each one in 
his own name ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. 7,000 shares is under my own name ; 7,000 shares are 
under my wife's name, and 2,000 shares are held under the names of 
my sons, William Molasky, as trustee. 

Mr. Halley. Do you directly or indirectly own any other stock in 
Western Union, held in the names of brokers or in any other name? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Not one share. 

Mr. Halley. Do any of the members of your family, to your best 
knowledge, own any held in the names of brokers ? 

Mr. Molasky. Not one share. 

Mr. Halley. Or in any other name ? 

Mr. Molasky. Or any other names, Mr. Halley. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state when you first purchased the Western 
Union stock? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge, I believe that I. M. 
Simon & Co., those statements speak for themselves there. You can get 
that right there. That is a true picture of when I bought my stock. 

Mr. Halley. Well, you purchased some Western Union stock prior 
to 1938 ; is that correct? 

Mr. Molasky. Doesn't it say 1937, too, Mr. Halley ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes; I say prior to 1938 you bought 500 shares in 
1937. 

Mr. Molasky. Wliatever that statement reads is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any trading account at all prior to 1937 ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge, I don't remember. I 
may have been in the market prior to that, too. 

Mr. Halley. Now, then, did you continue to hold that stock after 
1938, the Western Union stock ? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge, I don't know how long 
I held it, but it plainly tells you there when I sold it. So, whenever 
I sold it, it is just how long I held it. 

Mr. Halley. You sold 250 shares of Western Union in 1938 ; did you 
not? 

Mr. Molasky. If that is what it says, that is what I did. 

Mr. Halley. And then in 1938 you acquired a large amount of Para- 
mount stock ? 

Mr. ]\IoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And some AUis-Chalmers, is that correct? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state why you bought the Western Union 
stock ? 

Mr. Molasky. I mentioned that. 

Mr. Shenker. Answer it ; go ahead. 



24 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MoLASKT. I mention that in my statement. 

Mr. Shenker. Answer it, though. 

Mr, MoLASKY. The reason I bought Western Union stock, I have 
always bought various stocks. I bought it for speculation purposes, 
and I happened to be in New York City, after receiving a letter from 
Mr. Egan, the president of Western Union, welcoming me as a stock- 
holder. 

I dropped up there with both of my boys, and I said, "Let's go up to 
the Western Union and meet the president of Western Union." 

So, I went up there and met Mr. Egan, and Mr. Egan then had 
taken me for about 3 or 4 hours, and showed me from the top floor, 
I believe it is, on 60 Hudson Street — I don't remember — showed me 
all the modern equipment that they were putting in, whereby they will 
save thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in labor, 
and will get their messages out much faster; and, when he showed 
me all that new and modern equipment that they were having, I then 
started to buy more Western Union stock. 

Mr. Halley. Now, over the year 1941 you sold most of your Para- 
mount stock ; did you not ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I believe I sold it — was it in 1911 it was sold? 

Mr. Halley. The record seems to show that. 

Mr. MoLASKY. Well, if it was sold in 1941, my wife had power of 
attorney, and she had sold it for me. 

Mr. Halley. But you continued to hold and buy more Western 
Union ; is that right ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Not during 1941. 

Mr. Halley. After 1941 ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I don't know about 1942 either. I bought it in 1942 — 
I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. Let us place it directly in 1946. You began in July 
of 1946 to acquire large amounts. 

Mr. MoLASKY. From then on to the last sale, I bought Western 
Union. 

Mr. Halley. Do you own any other stock other than Western Union 
today ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I do not. 

Mr. Halley. Not one share of any other stock ? 

Mr, MoLASKY. Not one share of any other stock. 

Mr. Halley. Except Pioneer ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Pioneer Stock ; yes. 

Mr. Halley. And your only other business interest is your publish- 
ing company and news-circulating company ; is that correct ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. You have no other business whatsoever ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes. I publish, I mentioned in the statement, I 
publish scratch sheets and entries. 

Mr. Halley. And you distribute news in St. Louis, Kansas City, 
and in New Orleans ; is that right ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. In New Orleans, and I publish what you call a run- 
down, that is entries, you see, and we sell that. 

Mr. Halley. Have you any other businesses ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Or your wife? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 25 

Mr. Hallet. Do your sons have any other business ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are they in your business with you ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Pierce Building News Co., Kansas City News Co., 
and the Louisiana News Co., is a partnership owned and controlled 
by Mrs. Molasky, William Molasky, Jerome and Allen Molasky. 

Mr. Halley. Now, Mr. Molasky, at the end of your statement, you 
recall I read back to you a statement you made that in purchasing 
Western Union stock you say : 

I was guided by the same principles as I am in tlie purchase of any other stock 
listed on the New York Stock Exchange. 

But you do not have any other stock ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. I was referring to the stocks I previously bought. 

Mr. Halley. And you have not had any other stock of any nature ? 

Mr. Molasky. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Since 1941, when you sold that Paramount stock? 

Mr. Molasky. I still had Western Union stock after 1941. 

Mr. Halley. That is Western Union. Except for Western Union 
did you have any other stock ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know. Didn't you have some Allis-Chal- 
mers ? I don't know, I don't know what other stocks I had myself. 

Mr. Halley. Will you look at the records yourself ? 

Mr. Molasky. This is Dorothy Molasky, Mr. Halley — that is 
correct. 

Mr. Halley. Then, since 1941 

Mr. Molasky. No ; it tells you here that I sold stock in 1943, 1 sold 
Western Union stock in 1943, Mr. Halley. 

Mr. Halley. Yes. But since 1941, you have had no stock other than 
Western Union, no other stock than Western Union. 

Mr. Molasky. According to this statement, I don't think I had any 
other stock. 

The Chairman. Mr. Halley, may I ask one or two questions ? 

Did I understand that in this stock matter you thought this was a 
good investment? It has been a long time since Western Union 
paid a dividend, has it not? 

Mr. Molasky. Western Union paid a dividend, to the best of my 
recollection, Senator — do you remember the time we had a telephone 
strike here? 

The Chairman. I remember it, but Western Union 

Mr. Molasky. That was the year they paid a dollar on a share. 

The Chairman. Western Union has been consistently losing money 
over a period of quite a number of years. 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

The Chairman. And you knew that when you bought the stock. 

Mr. Molasky. I didn't loiow anything about what they were losing. 
I just bought the stock, just for buying it. 

The Chairman. I know, but this 7,000 shares at a price of $26 a 
share is $180,000. 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

The Chairman. And is not that a pretty big part of your capital ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is. 

The Chairman. It looks like you would put your money into some- 
thing that would pay you some dividends. 



26 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MoLASKY. Maybe I was not so smart about buying Western 
Union. It went all the way down to $14, Senator, and I still held it. 

The Chairman. Yes. I expect you are pretty smart, Mr. Molasky. 
It is strange though that you put up so much money on a stock that 
had been consistently losing money and had not had a regular divi- 
dend, regular payment of dividend, year in and year out, in a long, 
long time. 

Mr. Molasky, it has been brought out that you have been indicted or 
convicted at some time? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

The Chairman. What w^as it? 

Mr. Molasky. I was convicted of evading my income tax. 

The Chairman. What year was that? 

Mr. Molasky. In 1941. 

The Chairman. Were you jEined or did you serve any time? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir; I did. I was fined $10,000, and given 18 
months. 

The Chairman. Now, let me see if I understand something. Pio- 
neer News gets its service from Continental, but you get it on a Western 
Union ticker; is that correct? 

Mr. Molasky. Pioneer gets it on a Western Union ticker. 

The Chairman. Yes. But where does Continental come in? 

Mr. Molasky. Continental sends it to Pioneer. 

The Chairman. Over the Western Union ticker ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes. 

The Chairman. How is that arrangement worked out? Does Pio- 
neer i^ay Western Union, or does Pioneer pay Continental ? 

Mr. Molasky. Pioneer pays Continental. 

The Chairman. And Continental then pays Western Union? 

Mr. Molasky. That I don't know. 

The Chairman. Have you ever talked with the Western Union 
people about getting Pioneer a cheaper rate for its news service or 
giving Continental a cheaper rate for its service ? 

Mr. Molasky. Senator, I have never said one word to any member 
of, oflicers of Western Union, at any time pertaining to the Pioneer, 
and I doubt that they even knew that I was a stockholder in Pioneer. 

The Chairman. In the Pioneer office in St. Louis, how many tele- 
phones do you have going out — how many lines do you have, to dis- 
seminate information that the Pioneer News Service gets ? 

Mr. Molasky. I could not very w^ell answer that, Senator. 

The Chairman. The record shows, I believe, does it not, Mr. Robin- 
son, the amount paid for telephone service there during some year? 
Was it correct, switchboard service and telegrams and telephones, 
1949, $6,276.99 ; telephone service, 1949, $28,080 ; is that what the books 
show ? 

Mr. Molasky. Wliat year was that? 

The Chairman. During 1949. 

Mr. Robinson. 1949. 

Mr. Molasky. Perhaps the auditor may have listed that. It could 
not be that much to the telephone company. If it is, I don't know. 

The Chairman. AnyAvay, the record shows what it is. 

Mr. SiiENKER. The income tax would show what it is. 

The Chairman. Let us see, you and your wife and the members of 
your family own how many thousands of shares? What is the total 
holding. Western Union — how many thousand shares ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN , INTERSTATE COMMERCE 27 

Mr. Halley. Eighteen thousand for his whole family, he and his 
wife and two children. 

Mr. MoLASKY. Eighteen thousand and fifty. 

Mr. Halley. And 50, that is your daughter-in-law. 

The Chairman. You said that you cannot even read a scratch sheet, 
Mr. Molasky ? 

Mr. Molasky. I did not. I said I can't interpret a racing form. 

The Chairman. Racing form. Who makes these selections down 
here about who is going to win these various races ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is given to us by the Pioneer News Co. 

The Chairman. Do you send these through the mails ? 

Mr. Molasky. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Sports review? 

Mr. Molasky. No, sir; that is sold in the city of St. Louis only. 

The Chairman. Well, don't you sell it in Kansas City or East St. 
Louis ? 

Mr. Molasky. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Only in the city of St. Louis? 

Mr. Molasky. It is sold in St. Louis. They may pick them up in 
St. Louis and take them to East St. Louis, but not through the mail. 
They may have a distributor coming over. 

The Chairman. Do you ever lay any bets, Mr. Molasky? 

Mr. Molasky. I have never been a bookmaker; I know nothing 
about betting on horses. I maybe go to a race track, and I might bet 
$2 on a horse or something at a race track, or something, yes. 

The Chairman. Mr. Robinson, do you have any matters there that 
you wanted to ask Mr. Molasky about ? 

Mr. RoRiNsoN. I just have two questions. Do you have any com- 
petition in the areas which you cover with this news service ? 

Mr. Molasky. You are referring now to the Pioneer News ? 

Mr. Robinson. That is right. 

Mr. Molasky. We have none whatever; that is an exclusive that the 
Pioneer gets from the Continental. 

Mr. Robinson. In other words, you have an exclusive area ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is right. 

Mr. Robinson. How are the charges that Pioneer charges their cus- 
tomers determined ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is determined by William Brown, and I have 
nothing to do with that whatsoever. 

Mr. Robinson. Does it vary ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, it varies from anywhere from $25, as I said, up 
to $300 or $350. 

Mr. Robinson. The service for which you charge would consist of 
giving information out over the phone when these people call in; is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Robinson. Is it your opinion that these charges are based on the 
volume of their calls ? 

Mr. Molasky. I have nothing to do with it, I have never set no 
charge up with any individual account. William Brown handles all 
of that himself. 

Mr. Robinson. Is there any attempt, insofar as your knowledge is 
concerned, made by the Pioneer News Service to relate your charges 
to the volume of business done by the customer that you serve? 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 3 



28 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MoLASKT. To the best of my knowledge is that William Brown 
handles all of that there, and I don't know how he sets the price or 
what basis he sets the price on. 

Mr. Shenker. Do you know whether that is a consideration that is 
being ^iven ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No, I don't. 

Mr. Robinson. That is all. 

Mr. Halley. What community does your wire serve ? In what area 
do you have this exclusive right to the news service? 

Mr. Molasky. To the best of my knowledge they serve in St. Louis 
area, East St. Louis, Granite City, and Alton. 

Mr. Halley. And Alton? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know any of the employees of W^estern Union 
in any of those offices? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know none of them at all. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever met any ? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes, sir; I met Mr. Vermilion of the Western Union 
in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Who is Mr. Vermilion? 

Mr. Molasky. He is the local Western Union manager. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state when you last saw Mr. Vermilion? 

Mr. Molasky. Oh, about perhaps a year ago. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you see him ? 

Mr. Molasky. In my office. 

Mr. Halley. Did he come to your office ? 

Mr. Molasky. I believe he did. He wanted me to sign my proxies 
of Western Union for Mr. Marshall, if I can remember. He came up 
to get my proxies, if I remember. 

Mr. Halley. He then had a statement with him showing that you 
owned 9,000 shares ; is that right ? 

Mr. Molasky. He had proxies showing exactly what we owned. 

Mr. Halley. And it is, then, a fact that the local manager of Western 
Union is aware of the fact that you are the owner of many thousands 
of shares of Western Union stock? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know a man named Cooper, Maurie Cooper? 

Mr, Molasky. I do. 

Mr. Halley. Where does he reside? 

Mr. Molasky. I do not know. 

Mr. Halley. In what business is he? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know what business the man is in. I under- 
stand he has got a furniture store. 

Mr. Halley. When did you last see him? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't think I have seen Maurie in months. In the 
past year I may have seen him once or twice. 

Mr. Halley. Well, you stated that you know him. Where have 
you seen him? 

Mr. Molasky. I may have seen him at a ball game. 

Mr. SiiENKER. He is asking in the city, isn't that the point that you 
are talking about? 

Mr. Molasky. In St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. In what city, St. Louis ? 

Mr. Molasky. St. Louis. 



ORGANIZED CRIME liN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 29 

Mr. Halley. In what places in St. Louis ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It mav have been at a ball game or a restaurant. 

Mr. Halley. Think for a moment, and instead of saying where you 
may have seen him, state where you did see him. 

INIr. MoLASKY. I don't remember. It may be that I saw him at a 
ball game. I may have seen him at a restaurant or he may have been 
at tlie Chase Hotel, where I may have been with my family, I don't 
remember. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been to his home or place of business? 

Mr. Molasky. I have never been to his home or never been to his 
place of business. 

Mr. Halley. Has he ever been to your home or place of business? 

Mr. Molasky. Yes ; he was at my home. 

Mr. Halley. How recently? 

Mr. Molasky. Maybe 2 years ago. 

Mr. Halley. Is it not a fact that he is a bookmaker ? 

Mr. Molasky. I cannot swear he is a bookmaker. I don't know 
what he 

Mr. Halley. To the best of your information, isn't he a bookmaker? 

Mr. Molasky. I assume he is. 

Mr. Halley. Does he buy the service from Pioneer News ? 

Mr. Molasky. I assume he does. 

Mr. Halley. Well, you assume he does. Do you know it or do you 
not ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know, unless the record speaks for itself there. 

The CiiAiRMAiSr. Well. Mr. Molasky, 3'ou know whether he bought 
service oi- not. If he came to your home, you certainly would be 
talking about it. 

Mr. Molasky. Senator, at this particular time, unless I look at the 
books I don't know what account buys it ; I don't know it. 

The Chairman. Did you knoAv it when he was visiting your home ? 

Mr. Molasky, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Sometime back you were asked whether you know the 
people of the Pioneer Service, and you said you knew two, and you 
did not mention Mr. Cooper. 

Mr. Molasky. It might have been two, three, four, I can't remember 
in all these years. 

Mr. Halley. Now, your memory is refreshed, and Mr. Cooper should 
be added to that list? 

Mr. Molasky. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Well, perhaps, before you leave you would like to 
refresh your memorv and search your memory, because I am going to 
ask you to swear definitely that you have now told this committee the 
names of every one of the customers of Pioneer News Avhom you know, 
or have met. 

Now, we have just found that you know Mr. Cooper, and that he is 
a customer. Are there any others ? 

Mr. Molasky. Mr. Halley, let me answer you this way, I don't 
know how many of them I have met. I don't want to tell you no lie. 
If you tell me any of them, I will honestly tell you. I don't want to 
lie to you at all. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Chairman, I request that the meeting be continued 
over after other matters are finished today, until we can get the list 



30 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

■which Avas sent to the ]McFarland committee, if there is such a list, 
which the witness said he sent. 

The Chairman. The witness said the list has been sent. 

Mr. Hallet. And we can, perhaps, go over the list with the witness 
tomorrow. 

The Chairman. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. Well, either from you or from Mr. Brown we 
would like to get a list; we will check and see if it was sent to the 
Interstate Commerce Committee, and if not, we would like to get a 
list from one or the other of you. 

Mr. Shenker. You can get that without any question. We were 
under the impression that you had that list, that j^ou had the records 
that were kept by the other committee. 

The Chairman. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. This hearing will be held open in the event we wish 
to call Mr. Brown in, and in the event we wish to secure more informa- 
tion from you, Mr. Molasky. 

Mr. Shenker. I would like to ask Mr. Molasky one or two questions. 

JVIr. Molasky. Can I leave now ? 

The Chairman. I think so, but you will be asked some questions. 

Mr. Molasky. Pardon me, Mr. Shenker, I will be glad to come back, 
but Senator, I was planning on leaving on the 24th of June to go to 
California, and I would appreciate it; but it is entirely up to you. 

The Chairman. All right, we will keep in touch with you, and you 
can^o home so as to be home on Thursday. 

]Vlr. Shenker. Just one or two questions I would like to ask Mr. 
Molasky for the record. 

Now, Mr. Molasky, pertaining to the people that you testified that 
3^011 knew and that you believed were buying service and information 
from Pioneer, I believe you testified that you had not talked to any 
of the others excepting those that you mentioned anything about. 
You mean, so far as you know you did not talk to them about anything ; 
is that not correct? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Shenker. It may well be possible that you talked to all of them 
at one time or another? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know how many of them I talked to. 

Mr. Shenker. I said it may well be possible that you talked to all 
of them at one time or another ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

Mr. Shenker. You did not arrange for any service for Pioneer? 

Mr. Molasky. Never. 

Mr. Shenker. But you may have well talked to them about anything 
or everything, all of them or any of them ? 

Mr. Moi^SKY. Yes. 

Mr. Shenker. I would like to ask you one more question pertaining 
to this Western Union. 

Looking at these exhibits that you have introduced here of the I. M. 
Simon & Co., I note that most of your Western Union stock was sold 
before 1943 or by 1944? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 



I 



ORGANIZED CRIME liX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 31 

Mr. Shenker. Then you rlid not own any Western Union stock 

Mr. MoLASKY. From 1943 to 1946. 

Mr. Shenker (continuing). From about 1943 to about 1946? 

Mr. MoEASKT. That is correct. 

Mr. Shenker. You were still interested during those years in the 
Pioneer News Service? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I was. 

Mr. Shenker. You still had your stock in there ; is that correct ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Shenker. All right, that is all. 

The Chairman. Senator Hunt has some questions. 

Mr. MoLASKY. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hunt. Do you remember in your dealings and purchases 
and sales of Western Union, did you make some money on the 
transactions ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It speaks for itself. 

Senator Hunt. I know, but just tell me. 

Mr. Shenker. Tell him. 

Mr. MoLASKY. I think I did ; I did here. 

Senator Hunt. I wondered why you purchased Western Union 
when all of Wall Street, all of the Wall Street men, who are supposed 
to be in the know, and since it is generally understood, and generally 
known that Western Union is not doing well — did you purchase it 
solely on Mr. Egan's showing you this 

Mr. MoLASKY. The additional stock I bought on Mr. Egan's showing 
me tlirough the plant ; yes. The first three to five thousand shares was 
bought before that. 

Senator Hunt. Now, what percent of total outstanding stock do 
you own of Western Union ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I own as an individual — you are talking about 
myself ? 

The Chairman. You and your family. 

Senator Hunt. Your familv. 

Mr. MoLASKY. 18,050 shares. 

Senator Hunt. That is what percent of the outstanding stock? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I cannot say. 

Senator Hunt. Do you know what the outstanding capitalization 
in shares is? 

Mr. Shenker. It is something way up there. Senator. I believe it 
is less than 3 percent, somebody told me; I do not know. 

Senator Hunt. I wanted to get that. 

Mr. Shenker. Have you got that Post -Dispatch article here ? They 
gave the exact amount. 

Senator Hunt. That is close enough. It is not, certainly, a per- 
centage of holding that would allow you to step into the company and 
dictate policy? 

Mr. MoLASKY. It is a drop in the bucket in consideration of their 
holdings. I understand that they have a million or two million shares. 

Senator Hunt. In the purchase of this stock, was there any think- 
ing behind the purchase that by such purchase you would have an 
advantage of any kind in getting wire service for your publication? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Never; not at any one time. Senator, has that beer, 
entering my mind. Never has thai been in my mind, or never did I 
discuss it. 



32 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Senator Huxt. I don't believe I have any more questions. 

The Chairmax. There is one further question. I have never under- 
stood why Mr. Annenberg sold you 221/0 shares of Pioneer stock for $1. 

Mr. MoLASKY. He gave it to me for $1. 

The Chairman. Why did he do that? 

Mr. MoLASKY. He just wanted to get rid of that. I cannot answer 
it; he gave it to me for $1. 

The Chairman. Were you good friends? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Very good friends. I was a very good friend of Mr. 
Annenberg, and a very good friend of his son. 

The Chairman. That stock was worth a great deal, was it not ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. At that time, yes, it was. 

The Chairman. How much would you say it was worth ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. At that time I would say it was worth $30,000 or 
$40,000. 

Mr. Shenker. I will ask that that be stricken as purely a conclusion 
on his part because I do not think he ought to tie it down as to value. 
Could it be sold on the market? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No. 

Mr. Shenker. Could you be selling it? 

Mr. Haluey. Just a minute. 

Mr. Shenker. It is not fair to ask him that question. 

Mr. Halley. Please do not interrupt the chairman in his question- 
ing. The chairman meant to get a conclusion. 

The Chairman. Let us put it this way : What day was it, what time 
was it, that he gave you this number of shares ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I think it was in the year 1940. 

The Chairman. When was it that you bought these shares previous 
to that? 

Mr. MoLASKY. In 1932. 

The Chairman. What did you pay for them? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I paid $25,000 for 121/0 shares. 

The Chairman. Twelve and a half shares, you paid $25,000. Do 
you think the shares were as valuable in 1941 as they were in 1932? 

Mr. MoLASKY. They were not. 

The Chairman. They had lost some of their value ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. The business was shot. 

The Chairman. That gives us an idea. But had there been any 
previous negotiation about this, or did it just come out of a clear blue 
sky that he gave you these shares ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Before Annenberg — it might have been during the 
time he was sentenced, and went away, that the stock was given. 

The Chairman. Had he been sentenced at that time ? 

Mr. MoEASKY. I believe he was. You can check. Mr. Halley, with 
Joe First; he can tell you exactly when it was given to me. He 
can answer it himself how he gave it to me, and you can find out 
everything that I told you was the truth. 

The Chairman. Mr. Molasky, let me ask you this : What do you do 
about political contributions? In 1949, did you make any substantial 
political contributions? 

Mr. Molasky. I did. 

The Chairman. To whom ? 

Mr. Molasky. I gave $2,500 toward the Governor's campaign. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 33 

The Chairman. That is Governor Smith, of Missouri ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

The Chairman. To whom did you give it? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I gave it to John Hendron. 

The Chairman. Of Kansas City ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Of Kansas City — I don't know, of Jefferson City. 

Tlie Chairman. Is that all the campaign contribution you made 
in 1949? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is my recollection. 

Mr. Shenker. He is wrong in the year, because Smith did not run 
for Governor in 1949. I do not want to tell him what to say, but he 
is wrong in the year. 

The Chairman. Maybe it was 1948. Anyway, whenever Mr. Smith 
ran for Governor, that is when you contributed $2,500 ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Hoav did you happen to do that ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. Well, I felt that I wanted to give it toward his cam- 
paign. 

The Chairman. I mean, you know him ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. No ; I did not know Governor Smith. 

The Chairman. Did anybody solicit you ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. John Hendron, I gave it to John Hendron. 

The Chairman. Was he his campaign manager or treasurer? 

Mr. MoLASKY. He was his campaign manager. 

The Chairman. How about during the presidential elections, did 
you make any contribution then ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I do not remember. 

The Chairman. Well, you would know, would you not? 

Mr. MoLASKY. I doubt it. 

The Chairman. How about senatorial campaigns ? * 

Mr. Molasky. I doubt it. 

The Chairman. Congressional campaigns? 

Mr. IVIoLASKY. I doubt it. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr. Molasky. I doubt it. I don't think I gave anything. 

The Chairman. Did Pioneer News Service give anything? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't think so. 

The Chairman. What was given was out of your own pocket? 

Mr. Molasky. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Mr. Halley ? 

Mr. Robinson. I notice in your statement here, Mr. Molasky, that 
as well as distributing a number of publications, you also distribute 
some publications which are commonly referred to as scratch sheets ? 

Mr. Molasky. Right. 

Mr. Robinson. In other words, the clean sheet daily, and so forth ? 

Mr. Molasky. That is right. 

Mr. Robinson. "Wliat would be the advantage, what would I get from 
Pioneer News Service telephonically that I could not get on one of these 
scratch sheets ? 

Mr. Molasky. I don't know what you could get from them outside 
of getting the description of the races. 

Mr. Robinson. I mean, do I have any advantage in calling direct to 
Pioneer News for information other than buying these scratch sheets ? 



34 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE C0M:MERCE 

Mr. MoLASKY. The Pioneer News Co. has nothing to do with me dis- 
tribuitng these scratch sheets. I am one of 800 distributors in the 
United States ; right in the city of Washington there would be the same 
distributor who handles the same thing. 

Mr. Robinson. The scratch sheets would not give changing odds and 
off-time, but I could get that over the ttlephone by calling Pioneer ? 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Well, Mr. Molasky, thank you very much. 

You and your attorney work out matters with Mr. Halley and Mr. 
Robinson about these records, and we want to get them back to you as 
soon as we can. 

Mr. MoLASKY. That is all right. 

The Chairman. We appreciate your willingness to come to Wash- 
ington and give us the benefit of any information you have. 

The hearing will be held open for the purpose of any other inquiry 
we want to make or getting information from Mr. Brown about his 
part of the operation. 

Mr. MoLASKY. All right, I will be glad at any time you want to call 
me. 

The Chairman. With that, the committee is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 50 p. m., the committee adjourned, subject to the 
call of the Chair.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



THURSDAY, JUNE 29, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Washmgton^ D. C. 

EXECUTIVE SESSION 

The committee met, pursuant to call of the chairman at 10 : 30 a. m. 
in room 908, Home Owners' Loan Corporation Building, Washington, 
D. C, Senator Estes Kefauver (chairman) presiding. 

Present : Senators Kefauver and Hunt. 

Also present : Rudolph Halley, chief counsel ; George S. Robinson, 
associate counsel ; and Alfred Klein, assistant counsel. 

The Chairman. General McKittrick, we want to thank you for 
coming here today to give us your testimony. It is the rule of the 
committee that all witnesses be sworn. Do you solemnly swear that 
the testimony you give to this committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. McKriTRicK. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROY McKITTRICK, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

The Chairman. Have a seat, Mr. McKittrick. 
Mr. Halley. Mr. Robinson, will you go ahead ? 
Mr. Robinson. General, would you state your full name? 
Mr. McKittrick. Roy McKittrick. 
Mr. Robinson. What is your present address ? 
Mr. McKittrick. Home address? 
Mr. Robinson. Home address. 

Mr. McKittrick. 7023 Stanley Avenue, St. Louis, Mo. 
Mr. Robinson. What is your business at the present time? 
Mr. McKittrick. Lawyer. 

Mr. Robinson. You are practicing in St. Louis ? 
Mr. McKittrick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Have you at any time held any official position in 
the city of St. Louis in the State of ^lissouri ? 
Mr. JNIcKittrick. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Robinson. What was that position ? 
Mr. INIcKiTTRiCK. State senator and attorney general. 
Mr. Robinson. How long were you attorney general ? 
Mr. McKittrick. Twelve years. 
Mr. Robinson. What period did that cover? 

35 



36 ORGANIZED CRIME TN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. January of 1933 to January of 1945. 

Mr. Robinson. General, are you acquainted with the Pioneer News 
Service ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. How long have you been acquainted with that organ- 
ization ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. You mean the people who operate it? 

Mr. Robinson. Let me first ask you, Who are the people who are 
the owners of that concern ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. At the time that I first became acquainted with 
the owners it was Clarence L. Owen, and Bev Brown, and Mr. Molasky. 

Mr. Robinson. Would that be William Molasky ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. How long have you been acquainted with Mr. Clar- 
ence Owen ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. It was in 1933 or 1934. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you represent him as counsel? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Robinson. Did you represent him as counsel ? 

Mr. McKjcttrick. Yes, sir; in 1947. 

Mr. Robinson. Is Mr. Owen now living? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Can you fix the approximate date of his death ? 

Mr. McI^TTRicK. May 1948. 

Mr. Robinson. Is Mr. Brown now living? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the approximate date of his death ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I believe it was in the fall of 1947. I believe. 
Of course, I could get that. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Robinson. Was Mr. Clarence Owen a person of some wealth 
so far as you know ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir ; he was. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you handle his estate? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir ; for his widow. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the approximate value of his estate? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Around two hundred and fifty, sixty, or seventy 
thousand. 

Mr. Robinson. Was there a time at which either Mr. Owen or Mr. 
Brown withdrew from the Pioneer News Service ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Would you describe what the circumstances were 
of that situation ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. May I make a statement? 

Senator Hunt. Anything you would like off the record just say 
you want this off the record. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. On the record or off doesn't make any difference. 

Senator Hunt. Surely. Go right ahead. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. My information with reference to this question 
and other similar questions that may be asked concerning this matter 
came to me tlirough Mr. Owen and my other knowledge with reference 
to certain facts ])ertaining to the Missouri circumstances came to me 
through Charlie Binaggio. Of course, they are both dead. I will 
be frank, it is embarrassing to me to talk about something that people 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 37 

told nie that are now deceased. If they were living I would not hesi- 
tate, but I am reluctant. When you say something that somebody told 
you who is now dead, it is easy for someone else to think it is just a 
fabricated story, but under that condition I want to answer every 
question I can. 

Senator Hunt. I think, Mr. McKittrick, perhaps it would be best 
for you to go ahead and answer the questions and impart to us the 
knowledge you gained from these people who are no longer living, 
and the preliminary statement that you have made that you dislike to 
do it, the consequences, I think covers the situation, so you are now 
at liberty and free to go ahead and give the answer. 

Mr. H ALLEY. ;May I add that you can rely upon the fact that the 
connnittee will obviously, in weighing any testimony, give proper con- 
sideration to facts such as the ones you mentioned. As to whether the 
testimony should be used or whether it would be fair to use it, you can 
rely on the committee's discretion there. 

Mr. McKittrick. Mr. Counsel, you readily understand that what- 
ever becomes public that I say with reference to what Mr. Owen or 
Mr. Binaggio told me, in the Missouri situation they would say that is 
just a statement from a defeated candidate and he is sore. You can 
understand my feeling about that. 

Mr. Halley. You are about to give us facts, is that right; actual 
conversations that took place? 

Mr. McKittrick. That is right, that is all. 

Mr. Halley. You were there and they were your conversations with 
these people? 

Mr. McKittrick. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. That is competent evidence and I do not think you 
should be embarrassed. 

Mr. McKittrick. May I have the question? 

Mr. RoBixsoN. I think the question, Mr. McKittrick, was, what were 
the circumstances connected, insofar as you know, with the withdrawal 
of either Mr. Owen or Mr. Brown from the Pioneer News Service. If 
you can, I wish you would try to fix the approximate dates. 

Mr. McKittrick. Mr. Owen and Mr. Brown had been associated 
together in business for more than 30 years. They operated the 
Pioneer News Service. In 1947 or the latter part of 1946 Mr. Brown 
left the offices of the Pioneer Co. and set up an office with a different 
company across the river in East St. Louis. Mr. Brown and Mr. 
Owen separated because, according to the statement of Mr, Owen to 
me, Mr. Buster Wortman and Elmer Dowling and another party 
who is now deceased wanted to take over the business. 

]Mr. Halley. Was that Gregory Moore? 

Mr. McKittrick. No, sir; it was not Moore. His name was Epel- 
heimer, or some such name. 

Mr. Robinson. What was this company across the river that you 
mentioned ? 

Mr. McKittrick. I don't remember the name of it, some organiza- 
tion, some new company that Mr. Owen said was supported and or- 
ganized from Chicago. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he indicate to you who the people were who 
were in back of the new company ? 

Mr. McKittrick. At Chicago ? No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. He merely referred to it as a Chicago group ? 



38 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes. And that these gentlemen represented that 
group. They made a deal with Brown and tried to make a deal with 
Owen, but Owen refused their proposition. Mr. Brown accepted. 
They opened this office for the purpose of obtaining racing informa- 
tion across the river, and it was a competitor of Mr. Owens. 

Mr. RoBiNsox. Did Mr. Owen at any time tell you why he refused 
to join with them ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He said he did not want to have anything to do 
with it, he did not care how much money they had or how much money 
they would offer him. He positively would have nothing to do with 
them. 

Mr. RoBixsox. Did there come a time when j\Ir. Brown came back 
with the Pioneer Service ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Mr. Brown never disposed of his stock. The only 
thing he did was to move over to the east side of the river, tliat is. East 
St. Louis, and open another office in competition with the Pioneer. 
Mr. Owen took sick in December of 19tt7. After that, some time after 
that, Mr. Brown moved back to the Pioneer office, which is located in 
the Fullerton Building in St. Louis. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you know what became of the East St. Louis 
company? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, sir. 

Mr, Robinson. How long it remained in existence? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you at any time handle any stock transactions 
for the Owen family? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. 

Mr. Robinson. Stock in the Pioneer News Service? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Woidd yon describe what that transaction was ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Mrs. Owen, Florence Owen, the wife of Clarence 
L. Owen, had I2I/2 shares in her name at the time of Mr. Owen's 
death, and Mr. Owen had 121/2 shares. Bev Brown had 121^ shares, 
and Mrs. Brow^n had 12% shares. Mr. Molasky, if my memory serves 
me right, 35 shares, and a Mr. Ragen, or his heirs, had the remainder. 
He is the man who died in the hospital in Chicago. Mrs. Owen 
wanted to dispose of her interest, wanted to get out, and Mr. Brown 
and she had several conversations about it, and they finally consum- 
mated the deal for the sum of $25,000 for the 25 shares, the 12^/^ 
belonging to her and the 121/0 belonging to the estate of Clarence Owen. 

Mr. Robinson. Who made the purchase? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Mr. William Brown, the son of Mr. Bev Brown. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you know what business Mr. William Brown was 
in at the time of that transaction ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He was working then for the Pioneer News 
Service. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you know what his financial situation was? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Only just hearsay. 

Mr. Robinson. Was he a man of some wealth? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He didn't have that reputation. 

Mr. Hailev. Pardon me. Did you represent ]\Irs. Owen in this 
transaction ? 

Mr. McKii^TRicK. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 39 

Mr. Halley. As counsel? You Avere her lawyer? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

Mr. EoBiNSON. Do you have any information as to whether or not 
Mr. William Brown put up the^iioney himself or was backed by 
anyone else? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. As I recall it, he delivered a cashier's check or a 
draft, I didn't ascertain which, to Mrs. Brown on the date of the 
transaction. Just whose money it was actually I don't know. 

Mr. Robinson. You have no information of your own knowledge as 
to whether or not he was backed by anyone or who those people may 
have been? 

Mr. McKiiTRiCK. I have no knowledge of it ; no, sir. 

Mr. Halley. For what it is worth, would you state any hearsay 
you have? It will be weighed properly by the committee, but as an 
aid to the committee in its investigation, would you state what hearsay 
you have and the basis of your hearsay ? 

]Mr. McKiTTRiCK. On that basis it seems to be the general under- 
standing he w^as merely a representative of tlie Wortman-Dowling 
crowd, that they were really the owners. 

JNIr. Halley. Are they well known police characters, criminals? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Oh, yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are they supposed to be connected with the Capone 
Cliicago racketeers? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. They are referred to constantly in that manner. 

Mr. Halley. That is their reputation. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What is the basis of this information you have ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I would say general talk. 

Mr. Halley. You w^ere a lawyer in the deal. At the time you han- 
dled it did you rather understand that these three people, Dowling, 
Moore, and Wortman 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. It w^as understo(jd they were working for them. 
Mr. Bev Brown was working for his father, and then his son was 
working for those people, employed by them. 

Mr. Halley. And it was your understanding that those three peo- 
ple put up the $25,000 purchase price? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. For their benefit and use, whether they actually 
put up the money, that was never discussed. I understood they were 
the controlling parties of that Pioneer Service. 

Mr. Robinson. Were there any of these people that you have men- 
tioned present during the time of any of the negotiations for the 
purchase or the final settlement? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir ; at the final settlement there was Mr. 
Willie Owen, Mr. Morris Shenker, myself, Willie Brown, Mrs. Owen, 
and another gentleman. I can't remember his name. This other man 
took notes. Just who he represented, I wasn't informed. Mr. Shenker 
is the attorney who represented the Pioneer Co., and Mr. Willie 
Brown. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you have any further questions on this particular 
situation before I go to another? 

Mr. Halley. Have you, Senator? 

Senator Hunt (presiding). No; but just as a point of information 
and off the record. 



40 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Robinson. Mr. McKittrick, how long have you known Gov. 
Forrest Smith? 

Mr, McKittrick. We began serving on boards in 1933. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you at one time have a discussion with him 
regarding his candidacy for the nomination for the Democratic Party ? 

Mr. McKittrick. For Governor? 

Mr. Robinson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. McKittrick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you recall the date of that conversation ? 

Mr. McKittrick. It was in October 1947. 

Mr. Robinson. Would you state to the committee what the nature 
of that conversation was? 

Mr. McKittrick. We were discussing the Governor's race. He said 
he had some information that I would like to be a candidate, and I 
told him I did not think so. He said, "I wish you would not make 
this race, if we can make such an agreement and get along together.-' 

He said, "If you don't cause me any trouble, I can win it without 
much difficulty." 

I said, "I am not very much interested in it." 

He said, "You stay out of this race, and I will support you in 
1952 for the Senate." 

I said, "It is too far ahead to think about." 

He said, "You know Gully Owen pretty well." 

I said, "Fairly, yes." 

He said, "I wish you would discuss it with him and see if he can 
help me. I would like to have their support." He said, "I need some 
money to make this campaign on. I wish you would discuss it with 
him." 

I didn't make any reply. He and I were walking from the Mayfair 
Hotel on Eighth Street down to Locust Street. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he at any time indicate that he desired to have 
you go with him to see Mr. Owen ? 

Mr. McKittrick. No ; he didn't say that. He didn't ask me that. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you state to him that you would see Mr. Owen on 
his behalf? 

Mr. McKittrick. I don't think I made any reply. I just went on. 

Mr, Robinson. Did you at a subsequent time see Mr. Owen and dis- 
cuss this with him this situation? 

Mr, McKittrick. I saw Mr. Owen after the conversation I had with 
Mr. Smith, in which we were discussing the Governor's race, and I 
told him that Mr. Smith was going to be a candidate definitely. He 
said, "I am not going to support him. That is definite, too." 

Mr. Robinson. Did you ask Mr. Owen at first whether he would 
support Mr. Smith and make a financial contribution to his campaign ? 

Mr. McKittrick. I didn't say anything about financial contribu- 
tion. I asked him how he felt about supporting Mr. Smith. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you remember what his exact words were in 
reply to that question ? 

Mr. McKittrick. I don't know that I remember the exact words, but 
the effect of what he said was that he would not support him under 
any conditions. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he give any specific reasons for his unwilling- 
ness to support him ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME UN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 41 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He didn't think Mr. Smith would keep the gang 
from the east, as he called it, out of St. Louis, and he wanted to be sure 
we had a Governor who would do that. He was definitely against 
what he termed the gang from East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. They were in competition with him, is that right, the 
East St. Louis crowd? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he make any reference to the fact that he would 
be double-crossed in any way? Do you recall any expression along 
that line? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, I don't. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any subsequent conversations with 
Governor Smith about this matter? 

Mr. McKiiTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. When did you decide yourself to be a candidate? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Sometime in January 1948. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any discussion with any one with 
respect to your candidacy? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Prior to January 1948? 

Mr. Robinson. Yes. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Oh, several. Labor leaders. Democratic commit- 
teemen there in the city, Owen, several. 

Mr. Robinson. Did Mr. Owen indicate he would back you ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. He urged me to get in. He talked to 
several other people to get me in. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any conversations with any one else 
other than those that you have mentioned regarding your candidacy 
on or about that time? 

Mr. INIcKiTTRiCK. Oh, a number of people. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any conversations with Charles Bin- 
nagio about your candidacy? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Will you state what the substance of your first con- 
versation was in that connection? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He wanted to discuss what he thought the 
chances to win were. It impressed me what he meant was the im- 
portance that he had to have a Governor. He had been having a pretty 
rough time the last couple of years. The political game was very 
expensive to him. He just had to have a Governor. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he indicate specifically why he had to have a 
Governor? Was there any elaboration on that? 

Mr. McKrrrRiCK. He discussed with me having to close up certain 
places which he owned and operated, and he didn't like to be under- 
ground all the time. 

Mr. Halley. What kind of places? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Gambling places. 

Mr. Halley. Handbooks? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes ; regular gambling places, where they shoot 
dice and things like that. 

Mr. Halley. Would you say where this conversation took place? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. At the Jefferson Hotel in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. What part of the hotel ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I had several with him. Let me see — you mean 
what floor it was on ? 



42 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Was it vip in a room ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Oh, yes ; sureh-. 

Mr. Hallet. Whose room was it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. His. 

Mr. Halley. What was the approximate date as best you can fix it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. It was some time late in 1947. On the same oc- 
casion we walked down to Mr. Owen's — no, that was the first time. 
It must have been before December — some time before December — 
because we walked down to Oweirs office, and he and Owen had a 
conversation about the Governor's race and other matters, but he made 
no commitment, Binnagio didn't. 

Mr. Robinson. You were a candidate at that time ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. 

Mr. Robinson. You had not announced at that time ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, I had not. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any subsequent conversations with 
Mr. Binaggio regarding your becoming a candidate ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. The next one was at Springfield, Mo., at the 
Jackson Day dinner. We discussed it there. 

Mr. Robinson. Had you announced at that time ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the nature of that conversation? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He said, "I doubt the advisability of your getting 
into this race." He said, "I don't know whether the East St. Louis 
fellows are going to stay with you." He said, "Before you get in I 
would like to talk to vou about it more." 

I said, "All right."' 

And I did see him after that again at the Jefferson Hotel in St. 
Louis. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the approximate date of that? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. January 1948. 

Mr. Robinson. Was that after you had announced your candidacy ? 

]\Ir. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the nature of that conversation ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He told me — the gist of it was that he thought I 
had made a mistake in getting in the race, that they were going to have 
to support Smith, and they had things arranged with Smith. He 
said, "Do you think you can win ?" 

I said, "No ; if you are going to support Smith, I can't." 

Then we discussed the situation generally. We discussed it as a 
business proposition. I said, "If you have made up your mind, I 
think the race is over right now because you are going to elect who- 
ever you support for Governor." 

Senator Hunt. Might I ask you why you placed so much confidence 
in his capacity to dominate an election ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He is the balance of power. He had a lot of 
friends and supporters in St. Louis, and he was the controlling factor 
in Kansas City. He had good alliances at St. Joe. He was very active. 
He was well supplied with money to operate with. 

Senator Hunt. What was his business ? 

Mr. McKrrrRicK. He was in the gambling business. 

Senator Hunt. Any other business? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. He would tell anybody, "That is my 
business and everybody knows that is my business. It is just like the 



ORGANIZED CRIME I'X INTERSTATE COMMERCE 43 

bank over there." He says. "I am in the gambling business. I don't 
want any chiselers, but I want to operate." 

Senator Huxt. It is difficult for me to understand how one man, 
even through gambling outlets, could be such a political figure. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Senator, he had several committeemen in St. 
Louis who were friendl^^ to him, very friendly to him, and the sheriff 
at St. Louis was very friendly. They had labor organizations that 
were behind him and with him. 

Mr. Halley. Who were those committeemen and the sheriff ^ Would 
you name them? 

Mr. McKiTTRit'K. Mr. John Dougherty was very friendly with him, 
and several of tlie committeemen. 

^Ir. Hallet. Would you name as many as you can who were friendly 
with him ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Jim McAtire. He is one of the leaders. State 
Senator Hogan. Webbe Hogan. Those are two of them. 

Senator Hunt. Would you just estimate the number of people in 
the State of Missouri that you think this man dominated and that 
he could count on going out and actively working during a campaign? 
Would it be 1,000 would it be 100. would it be 10,000? 

Mr. ]\IcKiTTRicK. People that he could go out and get them to go 
along with his candidate? 

Senator Hunt. People who would go along with his position simply 
because he asked them to or because he was taking that position. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Democratic leaders, there would be anywhere 
f I'om 500 or more. 

Senator Hunt. That you would call Democratic leaders. 

Mr. McKiiTRicK. Yes, local leaders, in different places in the State. 

Senator Hunt. Did he have any tie-up with the Republican or- 
ganization ? 

]Mr. McKiTTRiCK. There is a Republican leader in Spegusi. I don't 
know him. I can't spell it. He is the boss of a certain ward. Re- 
publican boss, an Italian fellow. Just what the relationship was I 
don't know, but Charlie always spoke highly of him and referred to 
him as a friend of his. He is the only one I ever heard him discuss. 

But Binaggio at that time had become very strong in Kansas City. 
His opponent there was getting very weak and Binaggio was taking 
over fast, rapidly. 

Senator Hunt. Just how Avould they dominate? Was it through 
a personal following? Was it the fact that they were unusually intel- 
ligent and capable men, or would they get their following because of 
making big financial contributions to the party? Would they make 
direct contributions to candidates and would they make direct con- 
tributions to precincts for workers on election day, and would they 
actually j)ay individuals to go out and work? Do you want to cover 
that idea or field ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Senator, they had the committeeman of each 
ward, and they would elect those committeemen. Then on election it 
cost them a good deal of money to get their vote out and to fix their 
tickets. It was pretty expensive. In each ward that is what they 
would have. They would have to contribute to the different ward 
leaders to take care of all their expenses. Building up the organiza- 
tion that he had built up in Kansas City, it helped him to get alined 

68958 — 51 — pt. 4a 4 



44 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

with people in St. Louis because then they could operate together and 
on a cheaper basis. 

Senator Hunt. Let me ask you, Mr. IMcKittrick, let us take a ward 
with a thousand voters. Surely out of that thousand voters, includ- 
ing half of them women, 800 of them would be fine, decent, respectable 
people. The other 200, let us say, would be not of that crystal-pure 
type. How would that influence that 800? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. In several of those wards. Senator, they would 
go 100 to 2, 89 to 1, for one candidate, whoever Binaggio was for, 
whoever was running, it didn't make any difference, for Senator, for 
Governor, the whole slate. They would have a ballot and when any- 
body went in they would hand them that ballot and everybody voted 
that ballot. That was true in several wards, what they called con- 
trolled wards in Kansas City and St. Louis. 

That is what he meant that he needed a governor. It was pretty 
expensive to operate that organization he was operating. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Halley. Perhaps we can illustrate if we get back on the record. 
Tell Senator Hunt the remainder of that conversation at the Jefferson 
Hotel after you were nominated. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. KoBiNSON. General, in your conversations with Mr. Binaggio, 
or at any time when he had conversations at which you were present, 
was there any specific reason stated by him as to why he had to have 
a governor ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He said in the political game it cost him a lot of 
money and he had to make expenses on it. Either that or he said 
he was going to quit. He said if he couldn't elect a governor this time 
he was going to quit the political game. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he indicate what type of expenses he was under? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Political expenses. 

Mr. Robinson. At any time did he indicate what he meant by "po- 
litical expenses" ? What I am getting at, did he mention expenses for 
counsel fees m defending any cases ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He told me about that case, that Mr. Ira Mc- 
Laughlin was representing the people who were charged with vote 
frauds and he had to put up the money for that. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he state how much he had to put up? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He said $35,000. 

Mr. Robinson. I want to get back to this conversation that you had 
with Binaggio in which you mentioned there was a business proposi- 
tion discussed. Was there any conversation in that connection with 
respect to your withdrawing your candidacy at that particular time? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Getting back to the conversation at the Jefferson Hotel 
in January immediately after you had announced your candidacy, was 
there any discussion between Binaggio and youi-self about a contribu- 
tion to be made to your compaign ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you ever have such a conversation with Mr. 
Binaggio? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That he made a contribution to my campaign? 

Mr. Robinson. Yes. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME LN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 45 

Mr. RoBiNsox. Was there ever such a discussion ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, sir; not to my campaign. 

Mr. RoBiNSOisr. At no time? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. Mr. McKittrick, did you ever at any time have a 
conversation with anyone regarding your withdrawal from the race? 

Mr. McKittrick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KoBiNSox. Would you state with whom you had that conversa- 
tion and the approximate date? 

Mr. McKittrick. At this January conversation with Mr. Binaggio 
at the Jefferson Hotel he said, "I think I am going to have to go with 
Smith.'' He said, "I think it is better to go with Smith." He had 
discussed with me at that meeting about slot machines and bookmaking 
places, and we just didn't agree. He said, "I will just have to go wnth 
Smith.'' He said, "Some of these fellows that you are relying on, 
these labor leaders and committee leaders, won't be with you. They 
will quit you before it is over with." 

I said, "I don't think there is any doubt about that, Charlie, and I 
don't think I can win, but you go ahead with Smith ; that is all right 
with me." 

Then subsequent to that, if my memoiy serves me right, it was 
sometime in February 

:^Ir. Robinson. 1949 ? 

Mr. McKittrick. 1948. Mr. Owen talked to me and he said, "Well, 
the gang would like to get you out of this race, and they are willing 
to pay $3.5,000.'' 

I just laughed, and I said, "Nobody would pay $35,000 to get me out 
of the race." 

"No," he said, 'T am serious about it. They will." 

I said, "Forget it. I have given everybody my word and I am just 
not interested.'' 

He said, "I am glad to hear you say that," and that ended it. 

Mr. Robinson. When this conversation took place was anyone else 
present ? 

Mr. McKittrick. No, sir; just he and I. 

Mr. Robinson. Did that end the conversation? 

Mr. McKittrick. Along that line; yes, sir. 

Mr, Robinson. Did he indicate who the gang was, insofar as you 
can recall ? 

Mr. ]\IcKiTTRiCK. No, he didn't mention any names. He just said 
the gang is willing to give you $35,000 to get you out of this race. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you understand what he meant by "the gang" ? 

Mr. McKittrick. My understanding was it was the people wdio were 
interested in putting everybody out of business and taking charge of 
the gambling situation ; in other words, "the people," as he termed it, 
across the river who were associated at that time with his former 
partner, Mr. Brown. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he indicate in any way whether the money was 
coming from Brown ? 

Mr. McKittrick. Subsequently I had another conversation with 
him, and he said, "They have raised that sum to $50,000, and Brown 
said they would put the money right here on the bed." 

I said, "I haven't changed my mind about it at all. I don't want 
anything to do with it." 

He said, "You are right about that." 



46 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COAIMERCE 

Mr. RoBixsox. Can you fix the time of tlie subsequent conversation ? 

Mr. ]\IcKiTTRiCK. To tlie best of my memory, I would say a couple 
of weeks after the first conversation. It was sometime in February 
or the first part of March, right in there somewhere. 

Mr. RoBixsox. Do you recall whether or not it was at that time that 
Brown was associated with the competing company — to Pioneer — 
across the river ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Oh, yes, he had been for some time. 

Mr. EoBiNSON. Did you subsequently have any couA^ersation with 
any one other than those that j^ou have mentioned regarding your 
withdrawal from the race ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I had several conversations with some of my 
friends, like Judge Sestric, for one. It seemed to be almost generally 
known that an effort was being made to get me out of the race. 

Mr. IvOBixsox. Did you ever at any time have any conversation with 
Mr. Binaggio about your withdrawal ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. RoBixsox. Can you fix the approximate time of that conversa- 
tion and where it took place ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. At the Jefferson Hotel on tlie AVednesday or 
Thursday prior to the first Tuesday after the first ^Monday in April. 
The reason I remember that so distinctly is because that Tuesday was 
the last date for filing for office. 

Mr. EoBixsox. What part of the Jefferson Hotel was it ? 

Mr. ISIcKiTTRiCK. I believe it was on the tenth floor, the ninth or 
tenth floor. 

Mr. RoBixsox. Were there any other people present ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He had a suite of rooms. There were several 
peo2:)le coming and going. He and I were in a room alone most of 
the time. 

]\Ir. RoBiNSOx. Would you state what that conversation was, if you 
recall it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He wanted me to withdraw and file for attorney 
general, withdraw from the Governor's race and file for attorney 
general. That is what he wanted me to do. He insisted on it. He 
talked about it. He discussed it for an hour or more. 

Mr. RoBixsox. Can you recall anything more regarding exactly 
-w hat was said by him ? 

Mr. Mc&TTRiCK. As a matter of inducement to get me out, you 
mean ? 

Mr. RoBiNSOx. That is right. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He said he had discussed it with Brown and the 
other fellows and they were willing to pay all my expenses to run. 

Mr. RoBiNSOx. To run for what ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. For attorney general. A thousand a month be- 
ginning on May 1, and that Smith would agree 

Mr. RoBiNSOx. Just at that point, did he state how long the thousand 
dollars a month w^ould run ? 

Mr. ]\IcKiTTRicK. He said during my term. 

Mr. Robinson. Was there any other financial consideration 
mentioned ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He said that Smith would agree to support me 
for the Democratic nomination for Senator in 1952 and that they would 
pay the expenses. If I doubted his good faith in the matter, he would 



ORGANIZED CRIME PX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 47 

put up $25,000 in a bank that I would name to warrant the paying of 
my expenses for that campaign in 1952. 

Mr. RoBiNSON". For the United States Senate ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. For the United States Senate. 

Mr. Robinson. Can you recall anything else that was said during 
this conversation ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. I told him I didn't want to run. I said, "Charlie, 
why do you want me to run for attorney general? I don't want to 
run." 

"Well," he said, "to be just frank about it, there is some discussion 
about how much heat Smith will take, just how much he will take, and 
we figure that if you are there you could brace him up and make him 
take more heat than he would otherwise." He said, "You know he is 
kind of slippery at times." That was the word, "slippery." 

I said, "Well, I couldn't do anything with him, and I don't want to 
make any deals." I said, "Smith might keep an agreement with you; 
I don't know. I told Binaggio he may keep deals with you ; I don't 
know, but I do know he wouldn't keep any deals with me." I said, 
"I think you are making a mistake." 

He said, "I have gone too far." He said, "I want you to study this 
over. You say you won't do it, but I want you to study it over." 

I said "I have already studied it over, and I am not going to do it." 

The following Saturday he called me on the telephone. 

Mr. Lein. From where? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. From Kansas City. He called me up. He said, 
"I have to make a deal with this other fellow, and I wish you would go 
to Jefferson City Monday and file for attorney general and withdraw 
from Governor." 

I said, "Charlie, I gave you my answer. I can't do it." 

Mr, Robinson. Who was the other fellow to whom he referred? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. To the present attorney general, Taylor, and he 
did tell me that Taylor wouldn't run if I filed. How he knew that, 
I had no idea. 

Mr. HoBiNSON. Did you have any subsequent conversation to that 
one with Binaggio ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. The next one I had was in May, the first part of 
May 1948. A newspaperman came to me a few days after the State 
convention, which they had in the first part of May. My memory is 
that it was the J:th of May, but I may be wrong about it. He was Ray 
Wilson, the reporter for the Globe-Democrat. He said, "Is it true that 
the gamblers offered you $30,000 to withdraw from the Governor's 
race?" 

I didn't want to answer the question. I tried to talk him out of 
asking me the question. He said, "Hume Duval, who is the represent- 
ative of the Globe-Democrat at Jefferson City, and my paper asked me 
to do it, and I have to ask you." 

I said, "Yes, but I won't say whether that sum is right or wrong." 
The figure was wrong, but I didn't want to say whether it was right 
or wrong because I didn't want the gamblers to get the idea it was 
coming from me. 

Then in the next issue of the pa])er Smith made a statement in 
which he said that it was a fabrication ; that there wasn't any truth 
in it; that nobody had made any such offer to me; that I just made 
that statement for political reasons. They had also asked the other 



48 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

candidate a similar question, Mr. Dan Nee, and he made a similar 
ans\yer. I made no statement and referred to no name whatsoever 
in my statement, but neither did Mr. Nee, but Smith singled me out 
as the one that fabricated the story. 

Then Charlie called me up on the telephone and asked me. He said, 
"How far are you going?" I understood him to mean if I was going- 
to tell all I knew, you know, about what happened between him and 
me. 

I said, "That depends on what your candidate, Smith, does." I said, 
"Charlie, you know I am not lying about this thing, but that is one 
thing I am not going to take, and you had better tell him. That 
is one thing I won't take." 

He said, '*A11 right, I will tell him." 

Whether he did or not I don't know. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any other conversations after that 
with Binaggio ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Not until after the election, not until after the 
election. 

Mr. Robinson. Will you state what the nature of that conversation 
was, after the election ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. The next conversation I had with him was with 
reference to a beer franchise. It had nothing to do with politics at all. 

Mr. Halley. I think we would like to have the thing anyhow. 
Would you state when and where the conversation took place? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He called me up. He was stopping at the Jeffer- 
son and asked me to meet him at the Mayfair Hotel. We had lunch 
together at the Mayfair Hotel, and he joked and discussed the elec- 
tion and a few things. He said, "You are a prettj^ good friend of 
Anthony Buford; aren't you?" 

I said, "Yes; I am a good friend of his, and always have been." 

He said, "That fellow is interfering with my business." 

Mr. Buford was general counsel for the Anheuser-Busch people. 
Mr. Tom Pendergast's son had the franchise with Anheuser-Busch 
beer in Kansas City for several years, and Charlie wanted to get it 
away from him. He said he had the deal made, and a man by the name 
of Carroll who had the power to make these contracts had agreed to 
it and the deal had all been made and turned over to Charlie's cor- 
poration. He had some corporation. He said Buford just raised hell 
about it and stopped it. He said, "I don't like it a bit." 

I said, "I think you have Mr. Buford wrong, Charlie. I don't know 
a thing about it, but I don't think so." 

He was kind of vicious about it, and I tried to calm him down and 
didn't want him to have that kind of feeling toward Buford. Anyhow, 
I said, "I will see Buford and let you know tomorrow whether you 
are right or not." 

I did see Buford. I asked him, and Buford did not have anything 
to do with it. I am confident and sure of that, because Buford told me 
that and explained it to me. So I went back the next day and saw 
Charlie, and I said, "I am telling you right now. The fellows who told 
you that are wrong. 

In that connection he mentioned Judge Jones and some other lawyer 
who had been working on the deal for him with this fellow Carroll. I 
think I got him reasonably pacified about it. We didn't discuss 
politics. That was all there was to it. He asked me if I would talk 



ORGANIZED CRIME liN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 49 

to Biiford and see if I could get him to change his mind or help him, 
and I said, "No ; I am not interested in that," 

Mr. Robinson. Would you state, Mr. McKittrick, whether or not 
you at any time ever represented Mr. Binaggio as counsel? 

Mr. McKittrick. Oh, no. No, no. No, sir. Politically I never paid 
him a nickel, I never contributed a nickel to him or to his organiza- 
tion, and I never accepted a nickel from him. He supported me in 
1944. 

Mr. Robinson. Before we get to the next conversation with Mr. 
Binaggio, would you state whether or not during the campaign you 
had any knowledge of the amount of money that was contributed to 
the Smith campaign fund ? 

Mr. McKiiTRiCK. It was generally understood — all of us fellows, 
who would meet and everybody would discuss it — that $100,000 came 
from the East Side, what they call the Capone crowd. That was the 
talk and the discussion of the amount of money. I did ask Owen, 
I said, "I can't understand why these fellows want to pay that much 
money, $50,000, to get me out of the way." I said, "They have me 
beat, I tell you ; I know Gully. I have been in this game too long. I 
haven't a chance, and I am not going to make any effort." 

He said, "They figure it is going to cost them $100,000 if you stay 
in this race, and if you get out they can get through with half that 
much money." That was the explanation he gave me. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you notice at any time during the campaign any 
appreciable decrease in your support in East St. Louis ? 

Mr. McKittrick. Absolutely. I will give one illustration of that. 
First, there was a group of labor leaders, six, seven, eight, or nine, 
who came to my office and asked me to run. The man who headed the 
machinists, the electrical engineers, and different types. Among them 
was a fellow by the name of Lawrence Callanan. He was the leader 
of the steamfitters. He was their business agent. There was a fellow 
Nick Blassie, who was the head of the butchers' union. They urged 
me to get in the race. It was at Springfield, and there were several 
fellows around a table there. They said : "You can't leave us out on 
the limb. We want you to run." PVevious to that, all of these fel- 
lows had a meeting with Smith. I still told them to back Smith. I 
said, "Go on and back him. What difference does it make? I don't 
want to run." They had a meeting with Smith, and these labor lead- 
er didn't want to do it. They insisted on m}- running. 

Then, after Charlie became very active for Smith, these people began 
to go with Charlie. Charlie told me frankly that they would, and 
they did. He didn't miss his guess. He told me Callanan would leave 
me. He told me Nick Blassie would. And every fellow he mentioned 
did leave me. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you ever talk to any of these people 

Mr. McKittrick. After they left me ? 

Mr. Robinson. As to why they left you ? 

Mr. McKittrick. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. After the election did you remain on good terms 
with Binaggio? 

Mr. McKittrick. Yes, that is right. 

Mr. Robinson. And apart from this instance that you have just 
related did you have any further conversations with Binaggio about 
the gambling situation, and with respect to the inability to open up? 



50 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Every time I would see him I would say, ''Charlie, 
how are you gettino; along ?" 

He would say, "I am getting along iSne." 

I said, "Are you and the Governor getting along or not?" 

He said, "Yes, we are getting along all right." 

I said, "The boys aren't doing so good in St. Louis." 

He said, "No, they are not, but I have no complaints. We have some 
things to straighten out over there. We have some things to straighten 
out." 

Mr. Robinson. Did he indicate why they weren't doing so good in 
East St. Louis? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes. He made some reference to the police com- 
missioner, that we might have made a mistake in selecting the chair- 
man of the police commission. 

Mr. Robinson. Will you state when and where the conversation took 
place with him regarding the police commission situation in St. Louis ? 

Mr. McKiTTRTCK. He made a casual remark when he was up at the 
hotel — I think that was in February 1948 — about the situation, just a 
casual remark. He said he was going to call Sestric and talk to him 
about this police matter here. 

Mr. Robinson. He said it was going to suit them. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. It was going to suit them. He stated to the com- 
missioner, in the other room now, and said, "We are going to talk to 
Sestric." I said, "I am going to get out of here," so I left. 

Mr. Robinson. Who were the other two commissioners in the other 
loom ? 

Mr. INIcKiTTRicK. I didn't see them. He just said they were in there. 
One of them is named Church and the other is a fellow by the name of 
Ostertag. I didn't see them. He just said they were in there and they 
were going to talk to Sestric. 

Mr. Robinson. This conversation took place when ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. At the Jefferson Hotel. I don't remember 
whether it was in January or the first of February. 

Mr. Robinson. You and Binaggio and Sestric were present ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, no; Sestric wasn't there. He started to tele- 
phone and said he was going to call Sestric up there. I was there. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he call him ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I talked to him afterward and he said he did. 

Mr. Robinson. What did he say at that time? 

Mr. ]\IcKiiTRiCK. That was a conversation I had with him at 
Jefl'erson City. 

Mr. Robinson. Where in Jefferson City ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Pat Noonan had an apartment in a building adja- 
cent to the Missouri Hotel, second floor. We had quite a conversation 
there. Among other things, he was discussing the police situation in 
St. Louis. 

Mr. Robinson. Was Noonan present at this conversation ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. Noonan and this fellow Nick Penna were 
in the other room adjacent. The door was open and they were sitting 
there playing cards, about like somebody sitting in there. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the conversation? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. With reference to this police situation he said 
Sestric had ])romised him that the chairman would withdraw, would 
resign. He said then Sestric reported to him that he went to see the 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 51 

Governor and offered to resign, and the Governor, Smith, refused to 
accept the resignation. 

Mr. Robinson. Who was the commissioner ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Holzhansen. 

Mr. Klein. Is that the commissioner? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes. Then he went on to tell me about an instance 
at the time that Holzhausen was appointed by the Governor. I went 
to see the Governor on the recommendation of Sestric because I didn't 
know him. He was appointed. He said, "I had a meeting with 
Sestric and Holzhausen, and Mr. Holzhausen departed right here in 
this room." He said, "Mr. Holzhausen called me back in this other 
room and said he wanted to talk to me. During the conversation he 
said the Post Dispatch told him he had to see Binaggio to get the 
green light." He said, "I didn't like that and told him so." He said, 
"I called Sestric in there and I told Sestric this fellow was too damned 
Dutch to be police commissioner." He said, "I talked to his partner 
about it, and they said, well, they would get it straightened out." 

Mr. Robinson. In other words, Sestric had told Binaggio he would 
get it straightened out. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes ; that is what they said. 

Mr. Robinson. That was what Binaggio told you ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That is what Binaggio told me. I talked to 
Sestric about it. 

Mr. Robinson. Afterward ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. I told him, I said, "Charlie is trying to 
accuse you of being a liar," and I said, "I don't believe you are. I 
think it is Smith." Sestric told me practically the same thing that 
Charlie did; that he did go down there to get Smith to accept the 
resignation. He said he wouldn't do it ; he didn't want to do it then, 
or something. Anyhow, he didn't accept it at that time. 

Judge Sestric said, "We told him to have his lawyer there to write 
up any resignation he wanted, in any form he wanted, and I reported 
that to Charlie." 

I said, "Smith is lying to you, and not Sestric." 

He said, "Get that resignation and I will find out who is lying." 

I told Sestric that. I reported that to Sestric and Sestric said, "I 
will let you know next week." The next week I called him over the 
telephone or he called me. Anj^iow we talked over the telephone. He 
said, "I tried to get in touch with the Governor but couldn't make an 
appointment with him until after the election. There was a gas-tax 
election which was going to take place in April. Then Charlie called 
me on Saturday prior to that election, and I told him what Sestric 
said. 

He said, "I don't give a damn if he never sees the Governor, that 
isn't what I want. He knows what I want. All I want is the resig- 
nation. I will deliver it to the Governor and I will assure him that 
the Governor will accept it." 

He said, "I have doubts that Sestric is going to get it." 

So in a few days after that he was killed. 

Mr. Klein. Did he indicate any urgency on his part for getting that 
resignation ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He did sav twice during my conversation with 
him about it, he said, "I am on the spot about this." He said, "I would 
like to get it." 



52 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. AYhat did you think he meant by that expression? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. It just occurred to me at the time what he meant 
was he promised somebody he would get it and lie wanted to try to 
deliver what he promised to do. He was just trying to get out from 
a bad situation. I will say it never occurred to me that he meant it 
was likely any physical harm would come to him. I didn't take it 
that way at the time. It didn't occur to me. I never thought of it 
in that way. 

iVIr. KoBiNsox. Your impression from what he stated was that he 
was in a difficult position? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That is right. 

Mr. RoBixsoN. Because he w^as unable to get the green light for 
gambling interests to open up. Is that right? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes ; and they knew he had gone to the front for 
this fellow and he wanted — and it seemed likely they thought he was 
to blame for it, wdien he said he was relying on Sestric. 

Mr. Robinson. He had gone to the front for which fellow? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Holzhausen. He said he had talked to Smith 
about him. You see, there was a good deal of newspaper publicity 
about that appointment. Smith made statements concerning the 
appointment. This man Holzhausen was somebody that nobody ever 
heard of or ever thought about being commissioner. Smith was asked 
who suggested him. Smith first said a lumberman in Jefferson City 
saw him on the street and told him about it. Then he said some other 
man told him about him. There was so much controvei'sy and discus- 
sion and publicity about that appointment. 

Mr. Klein. Actually it was Sestric who made the suggestion, was it 
not? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know that of your own knowledge? Sestric 
told you that ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Sestric said he was down there with Charlie. 

Mr. Klein. And Sestric went with Binaggio when Holzhausen's 
name was presented to the Governor for appointment ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Whether they were together I don't know. They 
were in town and after the appointment had been made they were 
together in Charlie's apartment. 

Mr. Klein. Did Binaggio ever tell you that he had suggested to the 
Governor that Holzhausen be appointed ? 

Mr. McKittrick. Yes, sir ; he told me he did. 

Mr. Klein. He told you he recommended it ? 

Mr. McKittrick. That is right. 

Mr. Klein. Did he tell you w^hy he recommended it ? 

Mr. McKittrick. He said upon the suggestion and recommenda- 
tion of Sestric. He said, "You know I like Sestric and I always did 
like him. He seemed to be a fellow who was absolutely dependable." 

Mr. Klein. Do you know Sestric's first name? 

Mr. McKittrick. Anthony. They call him Tony. 

Mr. Klein. What business is he in? 

Mr. McKittrick. He is a magistrate. That is a judgeship there, 
you know, magistrate judge, who has jurisdiction over certain 

Mr. Klein. Police cases ? 

Mr. McKittric:k. All kinds of cases, not police cases; no, sir; civil 
cases. Then he is the business agent for the newsboys, I believe. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 53 

Mr. Robinson, Did you ever talk to- 



Mr. McKiTTRicK. And committeeman, and a good one. 

Mr. Robinson. Had yon ever talked to Sestric about your conversa- 
tion with Binaggio in which Binaggio said that he, Binaggio, was on 
the spot ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. After Binaggio told me that, I told Sestric. 

Mr. Robinson. Had Binaggio ever indicated that Sestric was on the 
spot also? 

Mr. McKiTTKicK. He referred to that twice during the conversa- 
tion, and the second time he said, "I am on the spot and so is Sestric." 

Mr. Robinson. Was this last conversation at the Jefferson City 
place ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the date of that again ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That was in March. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the date of the last conversation you had 
with Binaggio ? Can you recall that ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That was on a Saturday on the phone previous 
to the election, the gas-tax election. This other conversation was the 
week prior to the meeting of the Northwest Newspaper Association at 
St. Joseph, Mo. I talked to him on Thursday or Friday, and that 
meeting there was on the following Wednesday, whatever date that 
was. I don't remember when it was. It was in March. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you ever talk yourself with Holzhausen? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No ; I did not. I do not know him. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you ever talk to Governor Smith about Holz- 
hausen ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. I haven't talked to him at all. The last 
time I talked to him I made a speech at Columbia, in which I told him 
and everybody present that he was being supported by the gambling 
situation. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Robinson. In your conversations at any time with Binaggio 
did he ever indicate that he was being pressed in any way by the 
gambling interests? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No ; he didn't say that, but I thought it was the 
political interests. You see, there was a good deal of controversy about 
that police board situation down there in St. Louis. Senator Hillman 
and Senator Hogan were all mixed up in it, trying to get control of it. 
There was a great deal of interest in it. The newspapers were full of 
that down there for days and weeks. 

Mr. Robinson. In your conversations with Binaggio did he ever 
indicate that the gamblers were complaining because they had not had 
an opportunity to get their money back that they had contributed to 
the campaign? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No ; he didn't discuss that with me at all. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you know whether or not Noonan saw the Gov- 
ernor about Holzhausen ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No; I don't. 

Mr. Robinson. Could you state what Noonan's position is? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. What does he do ? 

Mr. Robinson. What does he do ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. I don't know of his doing anything except he was 
associated with Binaggio and seemed to be just an agent for him all 
the time. He would go with him places, closely associated with him. 



54 ORGANIZED CRIME TX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. KoBiNSON. Do you have any information with respect to Binag- 
gio's affiliation or connection with the Mafia organization? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No. sir; I don't. I don't know anything about 
that, I do not. 

Mr. Robinson. Have you heard from any other person regarding 
his affiliation with that organization? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Since he died, I had a close friend of mine tell 
me that he belonged and he was surprised to know about it. 

Mr. Halley. Who told you that? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. A fellow named Bash. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know his full name ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Tom Bash. 

Mr. Klein. He is the former chief of police? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. He used to be sheriff of Jackson County, 
a very high type man. He doesn't live in Jackson County now. He 
is in Kansas City. 

Mr. Klein. Did Mr. Bash ever tell you anything about the afiilia- 
tion of Gargotta with the Mafia? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. Gargotta started to shoot Bash, and 
Bash killed a couple of the fellows with Gargotta and then Gargotta, 
fell to the ground and threw up his hands and asked Bash not to shoot 
him. Bash had plenty of trouble with him. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you know anything about the contribution of 
William Molasky to the campaign fund ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. You know nothing about the circumstances under 
which he gave that contribution ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. sir. 

Mr. Klein. Let's review a few things and fill in. 

You first came to represent Mr. Owen in a proposed suit that he 
wanted to bring against the Bell Telephone Co. 

Mr. McKiTTKicK. Yes, sir. During his controversy with the East 
Side people, the Bell Telephone people, without any notice one morn- 
ing sent workmen down and took out all his telephones. 

Mr. Klein. Which telephones were they? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Bell telephones. 

Mr. Klein. I mean in whose establishment. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Owen's office in the Fullerton Building. 

Mr. Klein. Pioneer News? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Pioneer News. 

He was mad about it. He called me and asked me to come down 
there. He told me about it. I said, "Who authorized it?" 

He said, "I don't know." 

I said, "Call them up." He called them up and obtained the in- 
formation that the governor ordered it done. Then he wanted to 
bring a suit against the company and air the whole thing. He em- 
ployed me and a man by the name of Frank Matthews, but we didn't 
bring the suit. We didn't bring it. 

Mr. Klein. Why didn't you bring it ? 

Mr. ^[cKiTTRiciv. Well, "we didn't think it advisable. It would 
create a lot of trouble for him. and we finally talked him out of it. 

Mr. Klein. Which Governor was that? 

Mr. . McKiTTRiCK. Governor Donnelly. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 55 

Mr. Klein. Governor Donnelly was the predecessor to the present 
governor; is that right? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is right. 

Mr. Klein. How did the phones get back there? 

Mr. McKiTiKicK. I think they Mere put back when they brought 
a suit subsequently, here last year, Mr. Morris Shenker brought the 
suit, an injunction suit, and the circuit judge there ordered them put 
back. 

Mr. Isjlein. That was after Mr. Owen had died? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. 

Mr. KiJ3iN. Who did Mr. Shenker represent? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Pioneer News. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know whether Mr. Shenker is the same Mr. 
Shenker who is attorney for Mr. Molasky? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. Morris Shenker. That case is now pend- 
ing in the supreme court, I understand. They are still operating. 

Mr. Klein. They are still operating? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. In the supreme court who is the appellant? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Pioneer, 

Mr. Klein. Pioneer is the appellant ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. They lost in the lower court? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. They brought a writ of prohibition attacking the 
jurisdiction of the circuit court to issue an injunction, and the Missouri 
Supreme Court sustained the State's petition, in which it held that the 
circuit judge exceeded his jurisdiction in entering the order to force 
the company, the Bell Co., to put back the phones. 

Mr. Klein. You have testified that you represented Mrs. Owen in 
the sale of that stock and that you had previously represented Mr, 
Owen prior to his death. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes; that is right. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know anything about a meeting of some repre- 
sentatives of presumably the Capone group in Chicago who came to 
St. Louis in 1947 in an effort to buy both of them out ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. To buy both? 

Mr. Klein. To buy both Owen and Brown out? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I think that was the beginning of the whole 
trouble. 

Mr. Klein. That was the beginning of the thing? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes ; that was the beginning of it. 

Mr. Klein. Brown went along, and Owen didn't? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is right. 

Mr. Klein. Did Owen ever tell you about a meeting that was held 
at Brown's home in connection with that effort to get both of them 
out of the business? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, no; he just told me these parties came up to 
his office and told him that is what they wanted, and he mentioned 
these three people. 

Mr. Klein. He mentioned Worthman ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. Did he mention Red Smith? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Was it Smith ? 



56 ORGANIZED CRIME TX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. Did he mention Ralph O'Hara ? 

Mr. McKiTi-RiCK. Not in that conversation. 

Mr. Klein. But he refused to get out. When Mrs. Owen told you 
she wanted to dispose of her stock in Pioneer, did she put any value 
on it? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. She said she would like to get $40,000 for it. 
As I recall it, that is wliat I first asked for it, $40,000, and Mr. Brown 
said they wouldn't pay that. He said Molasky was against it. 

Mr. Klein. Molasky was against it? 

]\Ir. McKiTTRicK. Yes ; against paying that much money. 

Mr. Klein. Did he say why Molasky was against it when Brown's 
son was buying the stock ostensibly ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He didn't say. He just said Molasky was op- 
posed to paying that much money for it. 

Mr. Klein. Did you ask him what Molasky had to do with the deal ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, I didn't. I didn't ask him. Of course 
Brown just said he was going to put his son in there. I didn't ask 
any question about it. I just assumed that maybe jSIolasky or some 
of the rest of them were buying it. 

Mr. Klein. But it was your impression during this whole negotia- 
tion when they mentioned young Bill Brown that he was only a straw 
party ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is my impression ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. And actually he wasn't either putting up the money 
himself? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He was just kind of working for them. 

Mr. Klein. He was the straw man ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. And after he took title to the stock he would not be the 
actual owner anyw^ay? 

Ml'. McKiT'rRicK. That is the impression I had. 

Mr. Klein. That is what I am trying to establish. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. Mr. Brown came to my office to see if I had 
a copy of the petition that we had prepared for Mr. Owen with refer- 
ence to this injunction, and then we discussed the sale and several' 
things during that time. 

Mr. Klein. Was it Mr. Brown or Mr. Shenker? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Mr. Brown at that time. Then, subsequent to 
that, I talked to Mr. Shenker several times with reference to the sale 
price. 

Mr. Klein. Who did the negotiating? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. With reference to price? 

Mr. I^EiN. Yes. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I did. 

Mr. Klein. And on the other side? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. It got down to Mr. Shenker. 

Mr. Klein. The final agreement on price was between you and 
Shenker ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. Can you tell us w^hy you advised Mrs. Owen to take 
$25,000 when her original asking price was $40,000? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. We felt y\Q had l)etter take what we could get. 
Brown told me that. 



ORGANIZED CRIME 1\N INTERSTATE COMMERCE 57 

Mr. Klein. Brown told you you had better take what you could get ? 

Mr. McKm^RiCK. Yes; and he thought he could get that much 
money for it. 

Mr. Klein. Was there any implied threat that if you didn't take 
tliat, you wouldn't get anything? 

Mr.' McKiTTRiCK. They controlled it, and it didn't pay any divi- 
dends. You know it was in bad shape. 

Mr. Klein. Was that his implication ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes. He apparently was trying to help her get 
that much money. 

Mr. Klein. Getting back to the conversation with Binaggio in which 
gambling was discussed, did Binaggio ever tell you of an arrangement 
that the gamblers had to divide Kansas City or St. Louis into geo- 
graphical areas Avhich would be under certain domination if they were 
able to control the Governor? 

Mr. McKiTTKicK. No, sir. I never discussed that with Binaggio. 

Mr. Klein. Did you ever discuss it with anybody? Did you ever 
discuss it with Owen? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No. Owen didn't know anything about it I am 
sure. 

Mr. Klein. Wasn't there an understanding that Kansas City was 
to be divided into four parts for gambling purposes? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. I heard that St. Louis was to be divided. 

Mr. Klein. It was St. Louis? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Into four districts, they called them. If you ask 
me who in the world told me that, I don't know, but I have heard that 
two or three different times when people were discussing it. 

Mr. Klein. But you don't recall Binaggio's having participated in 
that discussion? 

]\Ir. McKiTTRiCK. No ; I am sure he didn't. I am sure he didn't. 

Mr. Klein. In any of these conversations at which you were offered 
either another position or money or the promise of candidacy for the 
United States Senate in 1952 was there ever anyone else present ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir; there was one time. 

Mr. Klein. Will you tell us about that occasion ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes ; I will tell you because there is nothing else 
for me to do but to tell you. I will say I hate to. 

i\Ir. Klein. I have no objection if you enter on the record your 
reluctance to make this statement. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. It is more than reluctance. I really hate to be- 
cause this man 

Mr. Klein. You can state it as an emphatic reluctance. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. It is because this man just happened to be an 
innocent bystander, you might say. He was a close friend to Owen. 
I wasn't acquainted with him. I just knew of him. Owen said to me, 
he said, "Here is a man that you can always trust and depend on. 
What he tells you, it is that way. If you ever want my dealings any 
way with anybody who is on the square, this fellow^ will tell you.'^ 
Then he went on and started out about this money business. He said 
they raised it to $50,000. That fellow^ just happened to be there visit- 
ing him. In fact, I had seen him there once before when I was there 
visiting Owen. I think he saw him frequently. He just happened 
to be there. I learned a little more about him after he left. His name 
was Herb Lee. 



58 ORGANIZED CRIME TN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. Herbert Lee ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. Can you identify him further ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. He is a brother of a committeewoman of one of 
the wards there. She is a very active politician. Mr. Lee then had 
a business near the Jefferson Hotel, a liquor business. I was in there 
after I met him that day. He has a nice place there on Twelfth Street 
two or three doors from the Jefferson Hotel. He just put that in in 
1948. I don't know whether he is still in that business or not. I 
don't know now. I haven't seen him for some time. 

Mr. Klein. But he was present on the occasion when Owen told vou 
that the offer of the g:amblers had been raised from $35,000 to $50,000? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I don't think he said from $35,000. He said it 
had been raised to $50,000. 

Mr. Klein. Yes ; but we understand from your testimony that the 
previous offer had been $35,000. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is right. 

I talked to Mr. Lee subsequently because then it developed that he 
and Mr. Owen were interested in an insurance company, Mr. Lee and 
Mr. Owen, and after Mr. Owen's death I have been trying to sell Mrs. 
Owen's interest in that insurance company. 

Mr. Klein. To Mr. Lee ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. We have tried to establish whether Mr. Binaggio con- 
veyed to you any sense of urgency for having Mr. Holzhausen either 
removed or his attitude against gambling changed. Did Mr. Binaggio 
ever convey to you the financial reasons why he had to have, as he said, 
a governor ? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No; if I get that question clear. Of course, in 
the beginning all our conversation was that he wanted a Governor 
so he could operate his gambling establishment. That is what he 
wanted me to do, to agree to, I know. 

Mr. Klein. He wanted you to agree to let him run wide open if 
you were elected Governor? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. That is what we discussed, certainly. 
Certainly. I would sav, "I can't do it." He said, 'T have to have a 
governor." He said, "You know I can't go on and pay these expenses 
and carry on ; either that or I am going to quit ])oiitics entirel3^" 

Mr. Klein. When he told you that he had thrown his lot in with 
Governor Smith, did he indicate to you that Governor Smith had 
acceded to his request where you would not? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He didn't say about whetlier he had acceded to 
his request. He said, "I have made a deal with Smith." 

I said, "You will regret it because he won't keep his agreements." 

]Mr. Klein. And those were his words, "I have made a deal with 
Smith"? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is it. He said, "I am making a deal with 
Smith." 

I said, "You are going to regret it." 

He said, "I am going to make the deal" or "I have made the deal." 
Anyhow, I knew he was going to make the deal, whether he had or 



ORGANIZED CRIME IflST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 59 

was going to make it or could make it. I knew that was what he 
would do. 

Mr. KxEiN. By the deal you took him to mean that gambling would 
be permitted ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is right. There is no question about it. 
That is what he thought and that is what I thought. 

Mr. Klein. I know you don't have with you the photostatic copy 
or any other detailed information about that $25,000 check that passed 
from William Brown to Mrs. Owen, but can we ask you to get for us 
the name of the bank on which it was drawn, and if you can get the 
exact date of the transaction so that we can follow the check; would 
you do so? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir; I think I can get that. I think Mrs. 
Owen would have that information, and I know she would give it to me. 

Mr. Klein. Will you let us have it by mail ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. One last question : Can you give us the names of any 
individuals who were closely affiliated either in business or by friend- 
ship with Charles Binaggio who could throw further light on this 
situation? You have mentioned one Pat Noonan as being closely 
affiliated with him. Is there anyone else that you think of? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I knew who the political associations were in 
Kansas City. A fellow by the name of Clark, a fellow by the name of 
McKissick. 

Mr. Klein. General, do you recall their first names as well? It 
would help us if we could have them, 

Mr. McKjttrick. No, I can't. Maybe I will and I will call you. 
Yes ; Henry McKissick. 

Mr. Klein. Wliat business is he in ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He had gone into this insurance business. He 
used to be in the saloon business. After Smith was elected then he 
went out of it, sold that, and when they organized this insurance busi- 
ness, Charlie told me he was associated in that. Clark was former 
assessor in the county. 

Mr. Klein. Former city assessor? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. County assessor of Jackson County, Kansas City. 

Mr, Klein, How about Binaggio's brother? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I don't think he had anything to do with any of 
it. I never heard his name mentioned. 

Mr. Klein. He was never associated with Charles Binaggio's 
activities ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK, I don't think so, I never heard of him being con- 
nected with it, 

Mr. Purclome was another close political ally of Charlie's. He is 
the present sheriff. He is interested in Clark and Purclome. That was 
two of the fellows about that grand jury, Federal grand jury. 

Mr. Robinson. General, did you have any conversations with Binag- 
gio in which the subject of the vote-fraud situation in Kansas City 
was discussed? 

Mr, MoKiTTRicK. Oh, yes. He discussed that openly at the time it 
was going on and afterward, 

Mr. Robinson. To the best of your recollection, what were those 
conversations ? 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 5 



60 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. The last time I talked with him was the time I had 
that conversation at Jefferson City in Pat Noonan's apartment. We 
discussed the election, the senatorial election, and all that. He was 
going back over past political history, and he brought up that ques- 
tion of the vote fraud. He said, "I went out and supported the candi- 
dates and then they brought the FBI into Kansas City. Of course it 
was useless to bring them in because everybody knew how they carried 
that election. They voted them from the grave, England, and France." 
I remember his mentioning those two countries very well, and he 
laughed. 

Mr. Robinson. What did he mean by that? Would you elaborate 
on that ? Voted them how ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Fraudulently. People who weren't there, they 
voted them just the same and counted their vote just the same, who 
actually didn't vote. He said, "I put in every vote I possibly could 
get in the box." Surely he did. 

Mr. Klein. Is this the election in which you were candidate? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That was in 1946. You see, they had a big elec- 
tion up there in 1946. The President wanted a man by the name of 
Slaughter defeated for Congress. They ran a man by the name of 
Axtel against him. Charlie went with Axtel, and that nominated 
Axtel. Everybody knew he would either nominate or he could either 
nominate or defeat Axtel, and he nominated him. Then in the general 
election in the Democratic district, Charlie said, "Notwithstanding 
that it was a Democratic district, that Truman was for him, with all 
the fraudulent votes I put in the box, I couldn't win. We still got beat 
about 5,000 votes." He said, "That is what will happen again." He 
said, "I don't want to have anything to do with it." He was discussing 
that in connection with the present senatorial race coming up. 

That is the deal that cost him the $35,000 to get him out of it, you see. 
The FBI came in. 

Mr. Klein. The total cost was to have been $45,000. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I don't know what the total cost was, but that 
was what he was paying Ira McLaughlin. 

Mr. I^EiN. I mean the total cost for counsel fees was to have been 
$45,000, of which Binaggio told you he had to put up $35,000. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. I understood him to say he had to pay 
McLaughlin $35,000. Jim Pendergast was to put up $10,000 of the 
$35,000. 

Mr. Klein. I see. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Charlie had been down to New Orleans. He and 
his associates stopped there and discussed it. He intended to stay 
another day longer in St. Louis, and he said "I have just got a tele- 
phone call that Pendergast hasn't come up with his $10,000 and this 
case is going to go to trial and McLaughlin won't go to trial, he is going 
to get out of it, unless we put up the other money." He said, "I have 
to go over there and put up the other $10,000." 

Mr. Klein. When was that? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. I could look up the date of that trial. It was a 
couple of days before they actually went to trial. 

Mr. Klein. Can you give us ah approximate date ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I can find out the date of that trial, but I can't 
remember it. 

Mr. Robinson. Who was McLau<rhlin defendinc:? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IQST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 61 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. The people who were charged with vote frauds ; 
Henry McKissick was one of them. 

Mr. Klein". Is he the same McKissick who was engaged in the insur- 
ance business with Charles Binaggio ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, the same fellow. He was one of the political 
leaders there. 

]\Ir. KoBiNSON. Did you ever discuss with Binaggio this destruction 
of the ballots? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. We just laughed about it. "\Ye wondered 
how the FBI was going to get along, just laughed about it, joked 
about it. There wasn't any serious discussion about it. 

Mr. Klein. Did Binaggio joke about it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. 

Mr. Robinson. How did he joke about it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Well, he would tell about the Army they would 
have up there looking around, just kidding about it, you know, just 
one word would bring on another. There wasn't anything serious 
about it, about bombing the place, you know, getting into the sheriff's 
office. And everybody joked about it. 

]Mr. Klein. General, you have mentioned Lawrence Callanan, who 
you said was an officer of the steamfitters union in St. Louis. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Klein. He is still such an officer ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir ; business agent. 

Mr, Klein. He originally promised you the political support of his 
union and subsequently declined it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He was with the group that came to see me to 
ask me to run. 

Mr. Klein. Did that same group promise you financial support ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, there wasn't anything discussed about finan- 
cial support. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know whether that group of union leaders gave 
any financial support to Governor Smith's campaign ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Well, yes; it was generally publicized and dis- 
cussed that the steamfitters, that Callanan did. 

Mv. Klein. Did Callanan ever tell you that they had raised any 
substantial support for Governor Smith? 

Mr. McKiTRicK. Did he tell me that ? No. 

Mr. Klein. Where did you get your information on it ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That was in the newspapers that he said so. 

Mr. Klein. He was openly quoted ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know how much they raised for Governor 
Smith? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No ; I don't remember that. 

Mr. Robinson. I would like to ask a question in that connection. 
I understand you to say that Callanan originally pledged his support 
to you. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He came and asked me to run, with a group of 
fellows. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he ever discuss with you subsequently the fact 
that he would have to withdraw his support from you ? 



62 ORGANIZED CRIME IflST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No, he did not. I don't know why he didn't, but 
he didn't. 

Mr. Klein. In the general discussion in St. Louis about the financial 
support of the steam fitters union do you know of any refund to the 
steam fitters of funds that they raised for the Smith campaign? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, sir. 

Mr. Klein. You don't know that ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No. 

]\Ir. Klein. You say you haven't spoken to Callanan about it since ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, sir. 

Mr. Klein. General, Callanan was at one time convicted of an 
offense and served a prison sentence ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That is publicly reported; yes, sir. I didn't 
examine the record, but I take it to be true. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know the nature of the crime for which he was 
sentenced ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No ; I never did try to find out. 

Mr. Klein. Do you know how long ago it was ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. No, sir. I didn't know that until this gambling 
contribution matter came up. 

Mr. Klein. It has been publicly reported that Mr. Shenker, attorney 
for William Molasky, gave a $2,000 contribution to the campaign 
fund of Governor Smith. Do you know whether there was any par- 
ticular reason for this gift ? 

Mr. McKittrick. Of Mr. Shenker? 

Mr. Klein. No ; Molasky. 

Mr. McKittrick. You see, a governor has a lot to do with reference 
to the telephone system there, their business there. Donelly ordered 
the phone company to take out the phones. If they put them back 
and the Governor let them go, there wouldn't be anything said about 
it. It was pretty important to them. The Governor had ideas about 
such things. It is my opinion that when Mr. Molasky put in his 
money, he didn't expect to be throwing it away because he is a pretty 
good businessman. 

Mr. Klein. Did Molasky ever offer any funds toward your cam- 
paign? 

Mr. McKittrick. No. 

Mr. Klein. You never got any ? 

Mr. McKittrick. No, in no campaign, and I made four. 

Mr. Klein. Did Mr. Binaggio ever tell you that the reason why Mr. 
Molasky made that $2,000 contribution was because he wanted a voice 
in the naming of the St. Louis Police Board ? 

Mr. McKittrick. No ; I never discussed that Molasky contribution 
with anyone. 

Mr. Klein. Binaggio never mentioned it ? 

Mr. McKittrick. No. 

Mr. Klein. I think that is all I have. 

Mr. KoBiNsoN. General, did you ever have any discussions with Mr. 
Gargotta 

]Mr. McKittrick. Oh, no. 

Mr. lioBiNSON. In connection with your running? 

Mr. McKittrick. Gargotta ? No, no. I sent him to the peniten- 
tiary one time, and at the time he went to the penitentiary I was the 
prosecutor. 

(Discussion off the record.) 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 63 

Mr. EoBiNSON. General, would you state why you did not accept the 
original offer made by Mr. Owen, of $35,000, subsequently raised to 
$50,000, and the offer made by Binaggio of a guaranty of $25,000 for 
campaign expenses plus a $1,000 a month payment up to the time of 
the termination of your position as attorney general, if elected? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I didn't accept the offer to withdraw from the 
race for the sole reason that I did not want to be under any obligation 
of any kind or character to that group who I understood was paying 
the money. I didn't accept Mr. Binaggio's proposition for the reason 
that I did not want to be under obligation to him or to anyone else as 
to my future conduct in case I was elected, and I thought at the time 
I could have been elected. To accept their money would have put 
me in the position of either doing what they told me to do or of double- 
crossing them. I think as little of a fellow who would double-cross 
a gambler as a gambler himself. I never did and I just couldn't rep- 
resent conflicting interests. I knew what his interest was, which was 
against the public interest, and in many respects against the law, and 
I couldn't do it. 

Mr. Robinson. Had you ever had a similar type proposition made 
to you during your political career ? 

ih\ McKiTTKiCK. Oh, surely. 

Mr. Robinson. By the gambling people ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. By the slot-machine people. 

Mr. Robinson. When was that ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. What year ? 

Mr. Robinson. What year. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Stark was Governor. He was elected governor 
in 1936 to 1940. It must have been around 1938 or 1939. 

JMr. Robinson. What office were you running for at that time ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I was attorney general, and I was running for re- 
election. There were a lot of slot machines all over the State and 
especially in Jefferson City. I called in the prosecuting attorney of 
Jefferson City and asked him to get rid of them, to get them out of 
there. He told me to go to hell. So I brought a suit against him to 
put him out of office. I did put him out of office and put the sheriff 
of Jackson County out of office, and the prosecuting attorney of Jack- 
son County out of office. We got rid of the slot machines by that 
method, and that was the only way to get rid of them, too. Then I 
had some insurance deals. 

Mr. Robinson. Was there any proposition made to you to lay off 
the slot-machine operators? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Oh, surely. That was a big business, a tremendous 
business. I didn't know it was such a big business. 

Mr. Robinson. Who made the proposition? 

Ml'. McKiTTRiCK. One of their agents. 

Mr. Robinson. Was the agent from St. Louis? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No. He was from Jefferson City. I don't know 
what became of that fellow now. 

Mr. Robinson. Were they connected in any way with the existing 
gambling interests in St. Louis ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I think not, not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Robinson. Were they connected in any way with, to your knowl- 
edge, the gambling interests in other cities outside of the State of 
Missouri ? 



64 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That I don't know. When I had the investiga- 
tion in Kansas City, it must have been 1937 or 1938, I learned there 
during that investigation that the slot-machine business was divided 
up into districts and was a very lucrative business. That is when I 
began to get interested in how to get rid of it. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the proposition that was made to you 
by them ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. They wanted to get rid of that lawsuit, you know. 
They wanted to get rid of that lawsuit. If I would withdraw that 
lawsuit I could name my sum. 

Mr. Klein. They didn't name a specific price ? 

Mr, McKiTTRiCK. No ; they let me name it. 

Mr, Klein. They let you write your own ticket. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. There wasn't any chance. I wanted to go 
through with it, I wanted to see what the court would say. 

Mr. Klein. General, you have been in public life as the attorney 
general of the State of Missouri for 12 years ? 

Mr. McKittrick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. Would I be invading your privacy if I were to ask you, 
are you a well-to-do man ? 

Mr. IMcKiTTRiCK. No, sir. I had the same fight with bank night. 
A fellow from Milwaukee, an attorney from Kansas City, a good friend 
of Pendergast. We had a terrific fight over that. Charlie knew that. 
He knew just what you asked me. He knew that. 

Mr, Klein. You are not what you would consider a well-to-do man ? 

~Mv. McKittrick. No, sir ; I don't think so, 

Mr. Robinson. Would you care to comment. General, on what in- 
crease has taken place during your political career in the affiliation 
between the gambling interests and politics in your State and from 
what date does it stem, approximately ? 

Mr. McKittrick. I think at first Mr. Pendergast was the dominant 
figure. At that time it was all Kansas City. We weren't molested. 
Mr, Tom Pendergast supported me in 1932, In 1936 I had no opposi- 
tion. In 1940 he supported one of my opponents for office of attorney 
general. In 1944 the Pendergast machine supported Senator Clark. 
All that tinie there wasn't any gambling interests connected in any 
direct way with any of the public offices. The first time it really got 
prominent was in this race in 1948, and that is exactly the thing that 
Owen — that was one of the reasons he was definitely and determined 
against it. He said it would cause everybody trouble and it was a 
great mistake, and we ouglit to keep them out of Missouri. 

Mr. Robinson. Mr, Owen himself was active in politics? 

Mr, McKittrick. Yes, sir ; very active, very active. He took a good 
deal of interest in politics. He had a lot of political friends, 

Mr. Robinson. You don't classify Mr, Owen as being in the gam- 
bling group ? 

Mr. McKittrick. Not in that gambling group; no, sir. He never 
was connected with the Capone group. I don't think that for 1 second. 

Mr. Robinson. You are making a distinction between the Capone 
group- 



Mr. McKittrick. If you want to call that news business he was in 
gambling; of course everybody knew he was in that. Everybody 
knew that. He conducted, operated, and was the general manager 
and controller of that Pioneer News which furnished information to 



ORGANIZED CRIME IlN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 65 

bookies. He absolutely had that. There is no question about that^ 
I knew it, and everybody else knew it. 

Mr. Robinson. Referring to the gambling interests and their con- 
nection with the political situation in Missouri, you are relating the 
gambling group to an outside group ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That is what I mean, yes, sir ; a definite organiza- 
tion that came in trying to get control of the State political organiza- 
tion through the sheriff ancl the police commissioner's office. That is 
the first time it ever happened that way. 

Mr. Robinson. The initiation of those activities by this outside 
group from your observation began around the 1948 election. 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. That is right. I confess now that I was very 
foolish to permit myself to get in that race, but I thought maybe I 
could stop that, that I could contribute something to stop it. I talked 
to Owen and some other people about it, and it lookecl to me like a 
dangerous situation. The only reason I do not get out — I wanted out 
of it badly, and all my supporters — Sestric was there, and I could 
name dozens of them at a meeting. I said, "Gentlemen, you are re- 
leased, you are under no obligation whatever to support me. I haven't 
a chance in this world to win, but I can't get out. If I do get out, some- 
body is going to say that I accepted that gang's money," and I said, 
"I am going to take it before anybody can say it." 

The mayor of St. Joseph said, "I am going to stay with you regard- 
less." Some of the others said, "We are going to stay, too. We are in 
the same position and we are going to stay." 

It was just that bad. 

Mr. Klein. When you say you told them you were going "to take 
it" you mean you were going to take the beating ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is right. I was going to take the beating, you 
bet you. I would rather take the beating than to have anybody say 
I took their money. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you know. General, whether or not Mr. Owen was 
closely associated with Mr. James Ragen in Chicago ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. The only thing I know about that is what he said 
about it. He did tell me about it. He told me he talked to him on the 
telephone in the hospital 3 or 4 days before he died. He had his own 
opinions about it. 

Mr, Robinson. Who had his own opinions, Mr, Owen? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. Yes. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he express any opinion to you ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. He didn't seem to think it was a natural death. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he express any opinion to you with respect to 
why Ragen was shot? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. As I understood him, the man had control of this 
wire business, Continental Wire business. 

Mr. Robinson. What I am getting at. General, is whether or not 
Mr. Owen ever indicated to you that the same interests 

Mr. McKiTTKicK. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Robinson. The same gambling interests that were moving into 
Missouri were associated with the gambling interests that were trying 
to move in on Ragen in Chicago. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. That is right. 

Mr. Robinson. Did you have any specific conversation with him 
about that ? 



66 ORGANIZED CRIME I'N INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKiiTRicK. He just stated that is what it was. 

Mr. Klein. Did he name any names ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No ; he didn't. He would talk and I wouldn't ask 
him because I didn't care to know any more. I didn't try to find out. 
I just listened, and he gave me the reason. I know he went to Cleveland 
to see somebody with reference to the situation. That was just a few 
days after Charlie and I were in his office. He wanted me to go with 
him, and I told him he didn't need a lawyer and I didn't go. 

Mr. Robinson. Were you as closely associated with Mr. Bev Brown 
as you were with Mr. Owen ? 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No; I didn't talk to Brown nearly as much as 
Owen. I knew Brown, but I didn't talk to him as much. 

Mr. Robinson. Did Brown ever tell you why he was going over with 
that gang in East St. Louis ? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Who, Brown? 

Mr. Robinson. Yes. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. No; he didn't. 

Mr. Robinson. Did he ever indicate it was better to join them rather 
than to fight them? 

Mr. McKiTTRicK. Owen said that was the reason he went over. He 
and Brown were always friendly afterward, you know. As I say, 
Brown came to see him practically every night. They didn't have any 
personal — the last time I talked to Brown on the occasion that I al- 
ready referred to, he got to talking about Gully and got up out of his 
chair and looked out the window and tears ran down his cheeks and 
he said it was too bad it happened. 

Mr. Klein. General, I think we should put on the record our grati- 
tude to you for coming in. We appreciate this very, very much. 

Mr. McKiTTRiCK. I have a subpena. "V^Hiat do I do with that ? 

Mr. Klein. I know, but it is still a great inconvenience. As I told 
you yesterday, it interfered with your routine, and we are really very 
appreciative. 

I think that is all, Mr. Reporter. 

(Wliereupon, at 1 : 20 p. m., thp hearing adjourned.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CEIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



TUESDAY, JULY 18, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

St. Louis, Mo. 

EXECUTIVE SESSION 

The committee met, pursuant to call of the chairman, at 10 : 20 a. m., 
in courtroom No. 3, United States Courthouse and Customhouse, 
Twelfth and Market Streets, St. Louis, Mo., Senator Estes Kefauver 
( chairman ) presiding. 

Present : Senator Kefauver. 

Also present : Kudolph Halley, chief counsel ; George H. White and 
John N. McCormick, investigators. 

James W. Connors, St. Louis Crime Commission. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. O'Connor, the clerk of the court, has been very fine to help us 
with arrangements, and we appreciate Judge Moore's cooperation in 
furnishing this beautiful courtroom for our hearing, and the coopera- 
tion of the other district judges and of the United States marshal. 
Mr. Delaney has been assigned to the committee for the purpose of 
calling witnesses and of helping us with our hearing. Mr. Delaney 
advises that there are witness rooms where witnesses can sit, and we 
hope they do not have to stand in the corridor until they are called. 
This is going to be an executive hearing, so I will have to ask that 
anyone except those connected with the committee or wdio have been 
asked to remain here for the hearing leave the room at this time. 

The resolution authorizing this subcommittee to sit will be read into 
the record at this point. 

(The resolution follows:) 

Be it, and it is herehy, resolved, That the chairman be, and he hereby is, au- 
thorized to designate subcommittees for the purpose of holding hearings at Miami, 
Fla., on July 13 and 14, 1950, at St. Louis, Mo., on July 18, 1950, and at Kansas 
City, Mo., on July 19 and 20, 1950, or at such other time as the chairman may 
specify, and that one member of the subcommittee so designated shall constitute 
a quorum for the purpose of conducting such hearings, administering the oath, 
and taking testimony of witnesses appearing before it, and taking such ot^^r 
action as may be appropriate. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. Who is our first witness ? 

Mr. White. Chief Burnett. 

The Chairman. Mr. Delaney, will you call Chief Burnett. 

fi7 



68 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Chief Burnett, will you stand and be sworn? Do you solemnly 
swear tlie testimony given this committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Burnett. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GENE BUENETT, POLICE CHIEF, GKANITE CTTY, 
MADISON COUNTY, ILL. 

The Chairman. This, of course, is a preliminary hearing for the 
information of the committee so that we can get as much of the pic- 
ture as possible. We have a lot of witnesses to hear. We do not want 
to rush anybody, but let us get to the points of interest just as quickly 
as possible. 

All right, Mr. Halley. 

Mr. Halley. Chief Burnett, what is your official position ? 

Mr. Burnett. Chief of police, city of Granite City, 111. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you held that position ? 

Mr. Burnett. Since October 1945. 

Mr. Halley. Chief, I believe that there is a situation in your city 
with respect to gambling and you have some facts on that. Will you 
go ahead and tell the committee about it ? 

Mr. Burnett. All right. There has been but I have recently closed 
gambling in Granite City. I had quite a fight on my hands. I have 
raided the gambling establishments on one occasion and took all of 
their equipment. Of course this didn't set so good with the local 
authorities that this happened, but nevertheless it was accomplished. 

Mr. Halley. Who are the major gamblers in Granite City ? Let's 
start first this way : Who operates books ? 

Mr. Burnett. Do you want their names ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes, names, addresses; every bit of information you 
can give us. 

Mr. Burnett. The handbooks that were operated in Granite City 
were the Edison Cigar Store, operated by Lester Fehling. 

Mr. Halley. Where is that now? 

Mr. Burnett. I have the exact addresses if you want them. 

Mr. Halley. Fine. If you have a list for the record, that would be 
fine. 

Mr. Burnett. I gave a copy of this to Mr. McCormick. You should 
have it. 

Mr. Halley. Can we have the copy you have now and just put it 
in the record? 

Mr. BuRNETi'. Surely. 

Mr. Halley. We will mark that as exliibit No. 16, may we? 

The Chairman. Yes. That may be made exliibit No. 16. 

(The list referred to Mas marked "Exhibit No. 16, and is on file with 
the committee.) 

Mr. Burnett. You have the addresses now ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. Could you give is the names of the people who 
operate these? I see that your letter states addresses but not the 
names. 

Mr. Burnett. The Edison Cigar Store is operated by Lester Fehling, 
as I said. The Rex Cigar Store is operated by Isaiah Hughes. The 
1539 Madison was operated by Leo Vogt, and 1833 State was operated 



ORGANIZED CRIME IDST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 69 

by Clara Barnlioltz Marmor. Barnlioltz is the name it is operated 
on but her married name is Marmor. 

At one time Clara Barnlioltz operated two places, but one didn't 
reopen. 

Mr. White. We have four persons now, Chief. After Barnlioltz 
would you give us the next name? 

Mr. BuRXETT. There were only four. 

Mr. Halley. Where do these people get their information? 

Mr. Burnett. Pioneer News Service. 

Mr. Halley. What evidence do you have of that ? Have you taken 
any steps to trace that wire service or to do anything about it? 

Mr. Burnett. The only evidence that we have, we have been check- 
ing on this thing for quite some time and w^e were informed — I was 
informed, rather — that Pioneer Ncavs Service had sole rights to the 
wires. I found out from some of the gambling element when two 
places were permitted to open in Granite Ctiy in October of last year 
and the other two weie not permitted to open, they began to squawk 
and they began to cry a little bit. 

Mr. White. Which two were opened ? 

Mr. Burnett. Lester Feliling, the Edison Store, and Isaiah Hughes. 
The one that is Leo Vogt and the one that is Marmor were not per- 
mitted to open. 

Mr. White. What was the basis of their being permitted or not 
permitted to open? 

Mr. Burnett. The basis of that was that the other two, Marmor 
and ^ ogt, were not from Granite City. They used the old story that 
they are local people and Marmor and Barnlioltz were not local peo- 
ple and that is the reason they did not let them open. 

Mr. White. When you say. Chief, they would not let them open, 
to wdiom are you referring? 

Mr. Burnett. I am referring to the mayor of the city. 

Mr. White. What is his name ? 

Mr. Burnett. Leonard R. Davis. That is what I was informed by 
one of these operators, a fellow hanging around the operators, that 
the mayor would not let them open. I have been informed that there 
was a wire recorder in the possession of Pioneer News Service whereby 
they could give you the exact name of the party in Granite City who 
gave them authority to open. 

Mr. White. That person is who? 

Mr. Burnett. Supposed to be Leonard R. Davis. 

Mr. Halley. Did j^ou ever get any instructions from the mayor as 
to who to arrest for bookmaking and who not to arrest ? 

Mr. BuNRETT. I never got any instructions from the mayor about 
arresting him or not arresting him. We just went out and arrested 
him. It didn't set so good with the mayor and part of the admin- 
istration. 

Mr. Halley. Go on and state how it did not set so good, 

Mr. Burnett. There was a move on foot to demote me as chief of 
police and to fire me. 

Mr. Halley. You had a certain conversation with the mayor? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Would you give the gist of that conversation for the 
benefit of the committee ? 

Mr. Burnett. I surely would. 



70 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

I walked in the station and told the mayor — the mayor said he 
wanted to see me. I said, "Now is as good a time as any," I said, 
"Do 3^011 want me to give it to you now or do you want me to give it to 
you later?" 

He said, "I don't give a damn when you give it to me, you are 
through." 

Of course he denied that statement later. 

Mr. White. When was this, Chief? 

Mr. Burnett. This was back in January. 

Mr. White. Of this year ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What happened next ? 

Mr. Burnett. We have some aldermen on the board over there who 
are pretty good fighters and they got together and were going to call 
a special meeting to prevent any action that was to be taken. 

Mr. Halley. Let us have the line-up. You went and complained 
to somebody ? 

Mr. Burnett. I never complained to anyone. It so happened there 
were a couple of the aldermen there at the time. 

Mr. Halley. Did they hear the conversation ? 

Mr. Burnett. One of them did, but he wears a hearing aid and he 
states he did not have his hearing aid on at the time and never heard it. 

Mr. Halley. I see. 

Mr. Burnett. The aldermen who began to put up this battle were 
Aldermen Veiser, Portney, and Rutledg. They in turn got in touch 
with several other aldermen who were friendly to them and they were 
going to call a special meeting. 

You no doubt want to know the purpose of these raids that we 
conducted. 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Burnett. I want to tell you why that happened. One of the 
reasons, they had a practice over there since 1946 of the State's attor- 
ney bringing them in the county court and changing their names on 
the informations and fining them every 3 or 4 months. That was just 
a practice. The places never even ceased operation. 

Mr. Halley. Where was this practice? 

Mr. Burnett. In ]\Iadison County, the State's attorney's office. The 
State's attorney filed informations. 

Mr. Halley. That is Madison County, right ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. He filed the informations. 

Mr. Halley. Then what would happen ? 

INIr. Burnett. They would come in the county court and plead guilty 
and pay a fine and never cease operation. 

Mr. White. They were not served with a warrant or process of any 
kind at their place of business? 

Mr. Burnett. The sheriff was supposed to serve the information 
on them, the sheriff of the county, the deputy sheriff, but I don't know 
how they served them without closing them when they saw the 
violation. 

Mr. White. Who is the sheriff of Madison County ? 

Mr. Burnett. Dallas Harrell. 

Mr. White. He is the sheriff, and who is the prosecuting attorney? 

Mr. Burnett. Austin Lewis. 

Mr. White. Do you know a man named Buster Wortman ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 71 

Mr. BuBNETT. I have heard of him, not personally acquainted with 
him. 

Mr. White. Did you ever have any conversations with Davis or 
any other official relative to Wortman ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Wliat was that conversation and when was it. 

Mr. Burnett. The conversation was in June or July of last year, 
when there was some discussion of leaving these places open. I had 
had them closed for 18 months, and I told the mayor that I would 
not under any circumstances go along with their being open due to 
the fact that Wortman, Eppelheimer, and the Capone syndicate were 
connected with them. He then told me that these were local boys. 

Mr. White. Who told you they were local boys ? 

Mr. Burnett. Mayor Davis, he told me that the boys operating 
these places were local boys. 

Mr. White. You at that time told the mayor you would not permit 
these places to open because you understood they were controlled 
by 

]Mr. Burnett, He said, "If you can show me where they have any 
control over me, we will not. We will not stand for them." 

Mr. White. Where did you get your information that Wortman, 
Eppelheimer, and others were connected with Chicago type gangsters ? 

Mr. Burnett. Wortman has been known as a police character for 
quite some time. At one time they set up the Reliable News Service 
in East St. Louis. Automobile licenses which have been checked* 
around here belonged to Wortman, Eppelheimer, Dowling, Red Smith. 
Then Bev Brown went over to work for them. 

Mr. H ALLEY. May I ask you this 

Mr. Burnett. I am not positive of the year, but it was in the middle 
forties. 

Mr. Halley. Is that the time that Wortman first appeared in this 
area? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, in this particular business. Before that he had 
been just an ordinary run of the mill. He had been possibly in every 
liltle kind of racket. 

Mr. Halley. He lived where ? 

Mr. Burnett. Caseyville. 

Mr. Halley. How long had he lived there? 

Mr. Burnett. I would say he had been there to my knowledge about 
10 years. 

Mr. Halley. You say he has been in various rackets. Now do you 
know what he was doing prior to his opening the Reliable News 
Service ? 

Mr. Burnett. To my knowledge I couldn't specify any racket he 
has been in, but he has more or less been a muscle man. 

Mr. Halley. Is he the man who owns the Plaza Amusement Co. 
here in St. Louis? 

Mr. Burnett. I don't know whether the records of incorporation 
shows he owns it, but he was definitely connected with it. 

Mr. Halley. He was generally the type of man on whom you had 
no police record at all? 

Mr. Burnett. Not in Granite City. The man was never arrested 
in Granite City. In fact, he has only been through there on the high- 
ways. 



72 ORGANIZED CRIME lOST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. HaivLey. Tlien the Reliable News Service opened? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. That was located where ? 

]Mr. Burnett, In Fairmount City. 

Mr. Halley. That is out of your jurisdiction? 

Mr. Burnetf. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Since then has Wortman appeared to have any further 
dealings with these bookmakers in Granite City ? 

Mr. Burnett. We had information that he was seen around the 
handbook in Granite City and I sent some men down, but he was not 
there at the time. 

Mr. Halley. From whom did these people get their information, 
direct from Pioneer? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, Pioneer News Service. 

Mr. Halley, What does Reliable do ? 

Mr. Burnett. Reliable was only in operation a short time and 
they folded up. Bev Brown, who was a partner of Gully Owens, 
went over to Reliable News, A short time later he went back into 
Pioneer, and that was the time in police circles that we felt that they 
had taken over, the syndicate had taken over. 

Mr. Halley. Is it your understanding that Reliable no longer 
functions at all? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes ; in East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Does it function elsewhere ? 
* Mr. Burnett. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Halley. You mentioned that the syndicate had taken over. 
What do you mean by that? Will you explain ? 

Mr. Burnett. In police circles we call a syndicate — for instance, 
the old Capone gang out of Chicago. 

Mr. Halley. Just what did you feel ? Let me put it this way : In 
general the discussions of syndicate operations get quite vague. The 
committee has managed to trace one down in one area, and we find 
that it is possible to pin it down to something that is quite definite and 
specific. At that point we know just what happened. That is the 
task here. When you say that about the time that Reliable opened 
up is when the syndicate moved in, you must have some pretty specific 
things in mind. Can you just think carefully and try to give them to 
the committee ? 

Mr. Bltrnett. Yes. What I have in mind is this : V/hen Reliable 
opened up all police in the area immediately suspected there w^as 
going to be a lot of killings, and so on and so forth. We, like any 
other profession, have to have our sources of information. We felt 
that we were going to have an epidemic of gang wars. 

Mr. Halley. Let's hold it there, if we may. Did you feel tliat you 
Avere going to have gang wars because Reliable was in competition 
with Pioneer? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. That then requires the record to show something about 
the people who were associated with Reliable and Pioneer which made 
you think they settled their business differences with guns. Can 
you get that into the record with something specific in the form of 
testimony? 

Mr. Burnett. In the form of evidence ? No ; I could not. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 73 

Mr. Halley. Expert opinion, evidence of a well-informed police 
chief. 

Mr. Burxp:tt. We have had the experience, not during my time as 
a police officer, but we in Granite C^ity have seen many, and I person- 
ally have seen some of them. During prohibition we picked them up 
off the streets over there. There was no difficulty at all as long as 
Pioneer News Service was operating under the directorship of Gully 
Owen and Bev Brown. When Reliable opened up with these other 
names — Eppelheimer, Wortman, Dowling, Red Smith — the news- 
papers were naturally full of what to expect. 

Mr, WnriE. Chief, let me clarify this, perhaps. As a policeman of 
some experience — incidentally, how long have you been a policeman ? 

Mr. Burnett. Twelve years. I am starting my twelfth year, 

Mr. White. It is your business to make yourself acquainted with 
criminal personalities in your area? 

Mr, Burnett. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. White. And to make certain inquiries of informers and any 
other sources as to the character and potentialities of criminal elements 
in the city? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White, As a result of those inquiries, it is your opinion that 
the group included Wortman, Eppelheimer, Dowling, Red Smith, and 
they were of that type connnonly known as gangsters ? 

]Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. They were gangsters who had connections in other 
cities than the communities in which they resided. 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. As I take it, you never obtained any factual evidence of 
that in the way of testimony, or letters, or statements, or affidavits? 

Mr. Burnett. No, sir. 

Mr. White. You feel that as an experienced police officer you know 
that to be true and you have* discussed this with other police officers 
and from them you have the same opinion ? 

Mr. Burnett. W^e have a county association that meets monthly, 
the Madison County Police Officers Association. At the time of the 
opening of Reliable News Service that was the big topic of discus- 
sion — what we could look forward to. 

Mr. White. Was it the unanimous opinion of the peace officers and 
other associations that these people did represent a gangster element 
who would resort to violence to perpetuate their aims in connection 
with the racing information service? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes ; it was. 

Mr. Halley. You people must have had some further information, 
and that is what I am trying to get to, to tie Wortman and Eppel- 
heimer and Smith up with the Capone Chicago syndicate. Were they 
known to be seen in the company of Capone gangsters? Were they 
known to make trips to Chicago? Were they known to have interests 
and enterprises that were run by the syndicate? What made you 
think that a man like Wortman, who lived for many years right in 
your own community, had connections with the Chicago syndicate? 
Let us go off the record for a minute, 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Burnett. You wanted to know why we believed that he was 
connected with it? 



74 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Every little scrap, because the scraps that you have 
with the scraps that we pick up in Cairo and Peoria may fit together 
and we will have something. 

Mr. Burnett. Buster Wortman for quite some time around here 
was the run-of-the-mill gangster. Then suddenly, overnight, he be- 
came what we call a big wheel in the machinery. He bust with a new 
$100,000 home. The first thing you know, we used to hear about 
Chippy Robinson and those boys, and we began not to hear of Chippy 
Eobinson any more, but Buster Wortman. 

Mr. Halkey. When did Wortman get this home? 

Mr. Burnett. It is about 5 years now. It was built in about 1945. 
It is in Caseyville. 

Mr. White. It was built coinciclentally when he took over the wire 
service ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Halley. You felt he dichi't have the finances either to build the 
home or take over the wire service ? 

Mr. Burneti\ Then suddenly they built this lounge in East St. 
Louis, him and his brother, Ted. 

Mr. White. The Paddock? 

Mr. Burnett. He must have had a pretty good piece of change for 
that. The man blossomed up overnight. 

Mr. Halley. What about Eppelheimer and Red Smith ? 

Mr. Burnett. Red Smith I don't know very much about, but Eppel- 
heimer we knew pretty well. He used to be a race track hanger-on 
and he was Wortman's bodyguard, so to speak. Every time you saw 
Wortman you would see Eppelheimer. 

Mr. White. He is now dead? 

Mr. Burnett. He is now dead. 

Mr. White. In talking to any of the customers of the news service 
or the bookmakers in the course of your duties did you have any dis- 
cussion with them about the change-over in wire service from Pioneer 
to Reliable, and did anybody at any time tell you of any high-powered 
methods or threats or intimidation used to sell the service of Reliable 
rather than have Pioneer? Did Wortman ever appear as a so-called 
salesman in these transactions? 

Mr. Burnett. Wortman never appeared at any time as a salesman. 
These things were kind of odd. When the wire service was installed, 
a man would say he wanted to get wire service. Pioneer Service — give 
the devil his due — would not install that wire service until they first 
cleared with somebody in some local community. That could be the 
mayor, the chief of police, or some commissioner or any board member, 
alderman, who was so designated. 

Mr. Halley. That is an interesting thing, because, for instance, in 
your State operating a book is a felony, is it not? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When they were clearing they were in effect getting 
permission to operate in violation of the law. 

Mr. Burnett. To violate the law. 

Mr. Halley. With whom did Pioneer clear, for instance, in Granite 
City, where 3' on are chief of police ? 

Mr. Burnett. I have been informed that they cleared with the 
mayor. I have never been able to prove it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IiN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 75 

]Mr. Halley. Who told it to you ? Maybe we can work it down the 
line. 

Mr. Burnett. A fellow named Willard Portell. He was campaign 
manager for the mayor. 

Mr. White. Do you know his address. Chief? 

Mr. BuRXETT. No, I don't. He works at the Amstel Foundries in 
Granite City. He is working right now. He is the man who informed 
me that Mayor Davis made the call to Pioneer News Service to con- 
nect the wiras. 

The Chairman. What did Mayor Davis get out of it? What did 
he say he got out of it ? 

Mr. Burnett. Mayor Davis denies it. 

The Chairsian. I know, but what do you know about what money 
passed and what payoff was made, if any? 

ISIr. Burnett. The payoff was supposed to be $100 a week. 

The Chairman. Payoff bj^ whom to whom ? 

Mr. Burnett. At one time it went through one bookie. You see 
the last time. Senator, they were operating, it only started in January 
and I knocked them off right away again. Since Mayor Davis has 
been in power, tliey haven't been there long enough for him to get any- 
thing, because I knocked them off twice since he has been in the office, 
and they are closed now. 

Mr. White. Did you ever talk to a bookmaker who said he paid any 
official $100 a week for the privilege of operating? 

Mr. Burnett. No, sir ; but the income-tax records would show that 
prior to Mayor Davis' administration one R. E. Roberts was on the 
payroll of the Edison Cigar Store, at $100 a week, and he operated a 
tavern. He was, of course, the mayor's right-hand man at that time. 

Mr. White. Who was the mayor then ? 

Mr. Burnett. Charles W. Moerlein. 

Mr. Halley. Let's follow these things one at a time. 

Mr. Burnett. All right. 

Mr. Halley. First let us get back and finish Portell up right be- 
cause we want to ask him some questions. 

When did Portell tell you this, under what circumstances and where? 

Mr. Burnett. Portell told me this in my office in October of 1949 
in the presence of Alderman Rutledg and Alderman Portney. He said 
that the mayor had double-crossed him and would not let him get cut in. 

Mr. Haley. The mayor had run on a reform ticket, had he not? 

Mr. Burnett. That is what they called it. 

Mr. Halley. "Wlien he got in there, according to Portell, he double- 
crossed him and made this deal ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did any of the people present pick them up on it? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. These other two men last night asked if they 
could get over here and tell you people about it. 

Mr, Halley. Let us get them here. Let's get affidavits on it. 

Mr. White. When you are excused here, can you get them on the 
phone and ask them to come over here ? 

Mr. Burnett, I think so. 

Mr. Halley. And when they get here, have them send their names 
in and we will have them out of turn. 

Did he say where he got this information ? 

68958 — 51— pt. 4a 6 



76 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Burnett, I said, "Portell, why don't you quit giving us that 
stuff, and let us know something definite," because we were trying to 
find out and we were in there pumping him. 

Mr. Halley. What did he say ? 

Mr. Burnett. He said he had a friend who is well acquainted in 
Pioneer News Service, and it was on wire recording that Mayor Davis 
authorized the opening of the books. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio recorded it? 

Mr. Burnett, Portell said Pioneer recorded it. He did not tell me 
how, 

Mr, White, Were you present in the mayor's office at one time when 
he made a phone call under circumstances that led you to believe he was 
talking to the News Service? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr, White. Tell us about that, 

Mr, Burnett. I was in the news office and I heard the girl say "They 
are on the line." The mayor picked up the phone and said, "Those two 
places are O. K." 

The next day the two places opened up. There is nothing there that 
would say it was Pioneer, but that led me to believe that is what the 
story was. 

Mr. White. Were you having same conversation with mayor — in- 
cidentally, this is Mayor Leonard Davis? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. 

Mr. White. And it was how long ago ? 

Mr, Burnett. It was prior to October. It was about June, I would 
say. 

Mr, White. Wliat year ? 

Mr, Burnett. Last year. 

Mr. White, 1949, On or about that particular occasion did you 
have some conversation with the mayor about the operation of hand- 
books ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, 

Mr, White, You were discussing that at that time ? 

Mr, Burnett, Yes, 

Mr, White, TVHiat did he say to you? 

Mr, Burnett. The mayor asked me what I thought about the hand- 
books operating, and I said, "Mayor, I have kept them closed for 18 
months and I don't like it." He said, "I have to let the handbooks 
operate to get harmony in my council." 

I don't know what — I assumed, as you gentlemen do, that he meant 
to pay the council off. 

The Chairman. Of course, that is a very violent assumption, 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, 

The Chairman, Do you have any evidence that the council had been 
paid off? 

Mr. Burnett, No, sir; no evidence, Senator, 

The Chairman, How many are on the council? 

Mr, Burnett, Fourteen. . 

The Chairman. Bipartisan? Is it Democratic or Republican? 

Mr. Burnett, No, they run on a nonpolitical basis. They don't 
run on any parties, mayor or nothing. 

The Chairman, What action did the council ever take that indi- 
cated they were going along with this? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 77 

Mr. BuRXETT. One of these aldermen, Alderman Portney, made a 
motion one night that the mayor and the chief of police conduct an 
investigation of gambling conditions in Granite City. I think the 
vote was 10 not to do it and 3 to do it. One man was absent. Ten 
aldermen didn't want any investigation conducted whatsoever of any 
gambling activities. Of course, they were within their rights. They 
knew it didn't require an investigation. They knew it was a violation 
of the law, and that was the alibi they used. They voted 10 to 3 not 
to investigate any gambling. 

Mr. White. Was gambling going on at that time? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. sir. 

Mr. White. Everybody knew it? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. sir. 

The Chairman. How about the sheriff? What did he do about 
stopping this? Is that Dallas Harrell ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes. Nothing in our town about stopping it. 

The Chairman. What has been your relation with him? Have 
you tried to get him to do anything ? 

Mr. Burnett. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you think he has been getting anything for 

Mr. Burnett. As you said, that would be a pretty strong assump- 
tion, but when a man spends $50,000 or $60,000 to run for a job that 
pavs $4,000 a year, as vou say, that is a pretty strong assumption. 

the Chairman. How do you know he spends $50,000 or $60,000? 

Mr. Burnett. I think it is possibly a matter of record. It could be, 
how much he spends. 

Mr. White. Is the sheriff by law of equal responsibility with the 
police for suppressing crime in incorporated cities ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, the sheriff could come 
into our town. Granite City, and go right ahead and make arrests 
without any interference. 

Mr. White. Has he ever done that? 

Mr, Burnett. No, sir. 

Mr. White. For any offense whatsoever ? 

Mr. Burnett. No, sir. He did go into Madison, 111., and raid the 
200 Club, which is just across the street from us. He raided the 200 
Club which is a gambling joint. They did go in there and raid that 
after someone had shot up the joint and took a shot at the State's at- 
torney's house. 

The Chairman. Was that recently ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. That was within the past year. 

The Chairman. Let us get on with what Chief Burnett knows and 
what he has facts to prove. 

Mr. Haleey. You were talking about a R. E. Roberts and a Charles 
Moerlein. We stopped to get all the facts on Portell. Will you. go 
ahead with what you were going to say about Roberts and Moerlein ? 

Mr. Burnett. Roberts, as I said, was a payroll entry on the Edison 
cigar store at $100 a week. He never got any nearer that place other 
than to go around once a week and stop in and say hello. 

Mr. Halley. What was his relation — Charles Moerlein was the 
former mayor, is that right ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was Roberts' relations with Moerlein? 

Mr. Burnett. Roberts, in city hall talk, was the collector. 



78 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. Were they good friends ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. They were very good friends. Mr. Rob- 
erts was former maj^or of Granite City. He was more or less a cam- 
paign manager. 

Mr. H ALLEY, I see. He was on the payroll of this bookie joint and 
it was a known bookie joint ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Is there anything else, Mr. White ? 

Mr. White. Have you discussed this situation with the chiefs of 
police in cities in your general community? 

Mr. Burnett. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Have you ever discussed it with any police officer to the 
point where you know from statements of officials that the practice of 
Pioneer only to a put a wire in a city where they get the O. K. from 
the official is standard throughout that area? 

Mr. Burnett. Since I have conducted raids on the bookies, Mr. 
White, my department and I have been more or less outcasts from the 
other officials of the county. 

Mr. White. You are not on friendly terms as a result of your en- 
forcement activities ? 

Mr. Burnett. We are on speaking terms, but we don't discuss it so 
much because I am known as the renegade of the law-enforcement pro- 
fession on the east side. My department is the only department that 
has ever arrested or raided these places, until Governor Stevenson sent 
in some boys in the past several months to clean it up. 

The Chairman. This is Madison County ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How many gambling joints did you have around 
in Madison County, before they were raided on Governor Stevenson's 
orders ? 

Mr. Burnett. I would have to estimate it. I would say 30. 

The Chairman. Are they wide open ? 

Mr. Burnett. You walk right in the front door. 

The Chairman. Any of them in Granite City? 

Mr. Burnett. Four, which I closed. 

The Chairman. When did you close them ? 

Mr. Burneti\ I closed them on three different occasiojis. The last 
occasion was March. 

The Chairman. Why cannot you keep them closed? 

Mr. Burnett. They are closed. Senator. 

The Chairman. How about out in the county in no incorporated 
city ? Do you have some gambling places ? 

Mr. Burnett. I understand there are gambling places in the county 
running. As a matter of fact, they were running a week ago today. 

The Chairman. Why does not the sheriff close them up, do you 
know ? ' 

Mr. Burnett. I don't know. 

The Chairman. Chief, have you ever seen any money pass back and 
forth ? Do you know anything about that ? 

Mr. Burnett. I saw an envelope. There could have been anything 
in tliat envelope. It could have been tickets to the show. 

The Chairman. The envelope was passed when ? 

Mr. BuRNE-rr. It was a brown envelope about that long and 2 inches 
wide. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IiN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 79 

The Chairman. Wliere did it come from and whom did it go to ? 

Mr. Burnett. It came from a fellow known as Ben Oonk. He left 
it on the desk upstairs in the mayor's office. That was Mayor Moer- 
lein. It was not Mayor Davis. I never saw what was in it. Ben Oonk 
is a silent partner of 1539 Madison. 

The Chairman. How do you know he left it ? 

Mr. Burnett. I saw him. I was standing there when he brought 
it in. He left it on the desk with the secretary. 

The Chairman. Did he say what was in it? 

Mr. Burnett. I didn't ask him. 

The Chairman. It is your idea, then, that gambling and the wire 
service when it operates in that section does so by arrangement be- 
tween the participants and the law-enforcement officers and city or 
county officials ? Is that your feeling about it ? 

Mr. Burnett. It has to be, because I have had people who came to 
me and told me that if I would give them the O. K., they could get 
wire service. I said, "Well, I am not in that category." I said, "Some- 
one else will have to do that for you." There is no question about it 
that they first get an O. K. from local officials, from some local official. 

Mayor Moerlein and I were very good friends, we were very closely 
acquainted, and he did tell me some of those things. He let me in on 
a few. He has told me more since he has been defeated than he did 
before. 

The Chairman. "What would he tell you? 

Mr. Burnett. He told me the Pioneer News Service would not con- 
nect this service unless someone in the building gave them authority 
to connect it. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ask him how he knew this ? 

Mr. Burnett. Yes, sir. I asked him how he knew, and he just 
laughed. I said, "How do you know that? Can you prove it?" He 
just laughed about it. 

The Chairman. Anything else? 

Mr. White. I think that is all. 

Mr. Halley. No; thank you. 

The Chairman. Chief, thank you very much. Will you be available 
where we can get you today ? 

Mr. Bl'rnett. Yes. sir ; I will be in the office all day. 

The Chairman. You are going to call those two men? 

Mr. White. I would like to have you call those two aldermen, 
please. 

Mr. Burnett. Aldermen Donald Portney and Paul Rutledg. 

The Chairman. Tell them to let us know when they arrive here 
and also let us know whether or not they are coming. Thank you very 
much, sir. 

Mr. Burnett. You are welcome. 

TESTIMONY OF STANLEY WALLACH, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, 
AND WILLIAM J. HOUGH, FIRST ASSISTANT PROSECUTING AT- 
TORNEY, ST. LOUIS COUNTY, MO. 

Tlie Chairman. How are you, Mr. Wallach ? 

Mr. Wallach, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give 
this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 



80 ORGANIZED CRIME IJN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Wallach. 'I do. 

Mr. Halley. Did you bring any of your assistants with you? 

Mr. Wallacii. I brought Mr. Hough, who has made an analysis of 
this matter with Chief Deputy Sherifl' William Smith. 

The Chairman. Let us get Mr. Hough. Is there anyone else, Mr. 
Wallach? 

Mr. Wallach. No. 

The Chair3ian. Mr. Hough, we will be calling on you to testify 
and our rules require, not that we doubt your veracity, that you be 
sworn. Do you swear the testimony given this committee will be the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Hough. I do. 

The Chairman. We appreciate your cooperation and help. 

Mr. Halley, let us get at what we have. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. White will conduct this exaiiiination. He is very 
familiar with it. 

Mr. White. Gentlemen, we are interested in the investigation of 
the C. J. Rich Co. which came about through a raid conducted by 
your office and the sheriff and the St, Louis police, with some coopera- 
tion from the New Jersey authorities. We would like to have you 
tell us the results of your investigation for our record showing the 
extent to which Western Union was involved in the operations of the 
bookmaking enterprise, the States in which they operated, the methods 
under which they operated, and any other pertinent data that you may 
have in that regard. 

The Chairman. What is your first name, by the way ? 

Mr. Hough. William J. 

Mr. Wallach. May I make this preliminary statement while Bill 
is getting that. 

AVe learned that several men in this area had been indicted in New 
Jersey, and in conducting the search for those men before the indict- 
menis were made public in New Jersey the police officei-s in coopera- 
tion with the deputy sheriffs located the automobiles of two of these 
men at this address. We immediately secured a search warrant from 
the circuit court and in making the raid we uncovered this information 
and succeeded in arresting one of the men there. That was Sid 
W^^man. 

The Chairman. Is he a New Jersey citizen or does he live here? 

Mr. Hough. He is a resident of Missouri. 

Mr. Wallach. The place turned out to be a storeliouse for the C, J. 
Rich Co,, consisting largely of large numbers of telegrams and records 
of their business with the Western Union Co,, large amouhts of cor- 
res])ondence between Western Union and C, J. Rich & Co., a large 
amount of correspondence between various bettors all over the country 
and the C. J, Rich & Co,, and their records of their bills with Western 
Union, together with acknowledgments fi'om Western Union man- 
agers and employees of gifts received by them from C, J, Rich & Co. 

Mr. Halley, What is the business of C. J. Rich? 

The Chairman. C, J. Rich, is it not? 

Mr. Halley. C. J. Rich. 

Mr, Hough. They operated in St, Louis County as the Gold Bronze 
Co. However, we searched the place under authority of a search war- 
rant issued by our circuit court and found that it was used principally 



ORGANIZED CRIME IiX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 81 

as a storage house. There were some four records. There was some 
evidence that there had probably been a small amount of their busi- 
ness transacted in St. Louis County, and on that evidence we issued 
informations against Sidney Wyman, Steve Montefelice, Ralph Mar- 
tin Leon, Charles J. Rich, and Edward B. Fischer. These men our 
investigation disclosed operated the Charles J. Rich Co. 

In answer to your question, the records disclose that they probably 
operated in every State in the Union through the medium of Western 
Union. We also recovered from their records a box containing their 
agents who were also employed as agents for the Western Union. 
These men were located in different States and different parts of 
States. 

Mr. White. Do you have a list of the names of those persons and 
their locations as Western Union agents ? 

Mr. Hough. I do ; yes, sir. However, it is a card index and is quite 
lengthy. I imagine there are 100 or 150 names. 

The Chairman. Mr. Hough, as I understand it, the names in this 
card index were agents of Charles J. Rich Co. 

Mr. Hough. And Western Union employees. 

The Chairman. And Western Union employees. 

Mr. Hough. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Were they paid by both ? 

Mr. Hough. Definitely they were paid by both and received a com- 
mission. 

The Chairman. What records do you have to show that, Mr. Hough ? 
Have these names been made public ? 

Mr. Hough. No ; they have not been disclosed. 

The Chairman. Let's take a hypothetical case. Suppose John Doe, 
from Podunk, Tenn., is a Western Union operator. How would they 
contact and what would the contract be between C. J. Rich & Co. and 
the Western Union agent? How would thej^ make contact? 

Mr. Hough. They were evidently contacted by other members of 
the Western Union. They in turn would write Rich & Co. telling them 
that they had available to them bettors in their immediate territory, 
and that they would like to make a deal on handling these bets. They 
received a commission. We have in this voluminous correspondence 
acknowledgments of commissions and letters sending commissions. 

Mr. Wallach. And some soliciting business. 

Mr. Hough. And some soliciting business. 

The Chairman. You mean some of the agents soliciting business ? 

Mr. Hough. Yes. Momentarily I have misplaced it. I was read- 
ing it as I was looking through for an answer to Mr. White's question. 
One agent was a little wary of someone who was going to supplant 
him during his vacation period and told him he would continue to 
work but he knew nothing of the financial arrangements and dis- 
closed nothing to him. 

Tlie Chairman. You say this record you have here shows about 150 
such persons in the country ? 

Mr. Hough. That is correct, sir. 

The Chairman. In most all of the States ? 

Mr. Hough. That is right. 

The Chairman. What was the contract between Rich & Co. and 
these particular agents? 



82 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr, Hough. That I am not immediately able to tell you until I find 
some memoranda. 

The Chairman. Apparently these people had accounts with the 
Rich company. 

Mr. Hough. The modus operandi was to deposit a certain amount 
with C. J. Rich & Co. against which they could draw as they made 
their bets. If the horses in question won, they were credited. There 
was a monthly remittance to them over and above the amount that they 
desired to keep on deposit. If they lost a few bets, they would from 
time to time send money orders, by Western Union for the most part, 
and ask it to be credited to their account in order to give them addi- 
tional credit. 

The Chairman. Where would the Western Union manager make 
anything out of it? 

Mr. Hough. The Western Union manager would receive a portion 
or a commission on bets. Here is a letter, however, that suggests a 
direct tie-up with the company from a Kenneth G. Ebert, the man- 
ager of the Western Union Telegraph Co., Red Oak, Iowa. It reads 
as follows, addressed to Rich & Co., East St. Louis, 111. 

The Chairman. July 15, 1949. 

Mr. Hough. That is right. It reads : 

I have heard that a local booking agent is operating again in Red Oak. 1 
believe he has a tie-up with M. L. Cooper Co. He seems to be getting a majority 
of the business here at the present time. He telephoned his bets in after accept- 
ing same. Our local wire bets have dropped off considerably since this man 
started operating. I would suggest you appoint someone as local agent to 
represent you here. Tom Nunn is at present out of town but will be back 
within a short time. I would suggest you contact him as I feel he would be the 
man to represent you here as he is honest, trustworthy, and sincere in all his 
dealings. All the dealings I have ever had with him in the past 2 years, I find 
that his word is always good in every respect. I feel he would not only do you 
a lot of good locally but he has contacts in surrounding towns as well. This is 
only a suggestion that will be beneficial to you as well as to Western Union. 
My only interest is to try to gain back the revenue my company has lost due to 
the local booking agent. Western Union desperately needs business and a lot 
of revenue secured through the wagers wired in. The form which you were 
mailing in care of Western Union has not arrived in the past few days. I 
don't know if it had some error in the post office or if it had expired. I have 
had some calls for same. I would appreciate your keeping this confidential. I 
feel confident if you follow this suggestion you will benefit by same and I know 
our revenue will again be up where it was in the past. 

Thanking you. 

Kenneth G. Ebekt. 
Manager, Western Union Telegraph Co., Johnson Hotel, 
Red Oak, Iowa. 

Mr. Wallach. May I add to that one, this letter dated December 
31, 1948, from the same man : 

Dear Mr. Rich : Intended to write before and thank you for your Christmas 
present, but have been too busy. Was surprised to receive it, but it certainly 
came in handy. Thanks a lot. To show my appreciation, the only thing I can 
do in return is to suggest your name when customers place bets. I have done 
so, as you probably know, on D. C. Taylor. Have several other bettors here who 
place bets now and then and will suggest your company to them also when they 
come in. 

Kenneth G. Ebert, 
Manager, Western Union Telegraph Co., Johnson Hotel, Red Oak, loiva. 

The Chairman. 'Wlien did they come in to bet and Mr. Ebert sug- 
gested the name of C. J. Rich Co. ? Is the money actually telegraphed ? 
Mr. Hough. Yes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 83 

The Chairman. By Western Union to C. J. Rich ? 

Mr. Hough. Yes. It is telegraphed and a charge made for it. 

Here is a letter that bears it out. The Western Union telegraph 
office is the stationery. Trenton, Mo., July 15, 1948, addressed to 
Rich & Co. : 

Deak Mr. Rich : Today I sent an order to you for $10 and made an error on 
it by signing E. Potts. It should bave been signed B. Kincaid. This is a new 
customer and I trust there will be no inconvenience to you from making the 
error. I sent a service making the correction so you should know it was in 
error and if B. Kincaid wins any money you should send it to her. You now 
have all the race people's business in Trenton, Mo. 

The next paragraph is something personal. 

The Chairman. Then if the bettor won, it was remitted to the 
person proper or to the manager of the Western Union office ? 

Mr. Hough. It was evidently sent back to the persons themselves. 

The Chairman. What was the purpose of this deposit by these 
people with C. J. Rich & Co. ? 

Mr. Hough. They would bet often by telegram. Often their money 
was sent by telegram. The business was solicited, seemingly, by the 
operator who sent it as a money order. 

The Chairman, Yes, I know, but why did they require these agents 
to maintain a deposit here with C. J. Rich & Co. ? 

Mr. Wallach. It wasn't the agents. It was the customer. 

Mr. Hough. It was the customer himself. 

Mr, Wallach, To cover their losses in case they lost the bet. 

Mr. Hough. In other words, before you could oj^en an account, the 
money would be guaranteed to be in the hands of these people, and 
then you could bet against it. Then that money was forwarded to 
Rich. As soon as you had exhausted your reserve, you would either 
send additional evidence or you were wiped out of the whole stock 
market. 

The Chairman. I still do not understand. I just cannot get it 
through my mind. If John Doe went into a Western Union office and 
sent his money by Western Union to C, J. Rich Co. 

Mr. Hough, Yes. 

The Chairman. To bet on a certain horse, if he lost that wiped him 
out on that bet. If he won, then C. J. Rich Co. would wire him back 
the amount he won. In that dealing why was any deposit needed ? 

Mr. Hough. C. J. Rich did not operate in that manner. They did 
not operate on a single bet. They had you establish a credit of maybe 
$•2,000. Maybe 1 day you would bet only $20. 

The Chairman. You mean I am a bookie or I am an agent. 

Mr, Hough, No; you are the bettor. You are solicited. You are 
found to be a horse bettor in some small town or big town. They 
solicited you for Rich & Co. to do business. Then the agent contacted 
Rich & Co. and told them that you were a bettor and evidently a large 
bettor. You were then sent circulars and literature explaining their 
set-up. You were then talked in 

The Chairman, By C, J, Rich Co. ? 

Mr. Hough. By C. J. Rich Co. 

The Chairman. Through the mail ? 

Mr. Hough. Evidently through the mail. Then your name was 
sent on or you were told to contact this agent. 



84 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

When you were completely sold, you wired or deposited your money 
and made your bets. That was sent through Western Union. The 
amount of the money that was solicited monthly the agent received the 
commission. 

Here is a letter dated February 1, 1949 

The Chairman. Then if the deposit is made up here, then would 
there actually be a transmission of money back and forth ? 

Mr. Hough. Not on every bet ; no. 

Mr. Wallach. Sometimes they asked the amount be held for future 
bets. 

Mr. Hough. It was like a stock account when they used to play the 
margin. There was a remittitur or at least a run-clown of the assets 
and the losses, your gains and losses. 

The Chairman. As to these bettors who maintained an account, 
when they would place a bet back somewhere else with a Western 
Union agent, if they had a sufficient account to cover their bet, then 
they would not send money along. 

Mr. Hough. There was no money sent ; no, sir. 

The Chairman. What was the form of the telegram that would be 
sent? 

]\Ir. Hough. We have some of those here. 

The Chairman. Maybe you had not gotten to that yet. 

Mr. Hough. I had not gotten to that. 

Mr. White. First, I would like to clarify this with one question, 
Senator. These telegrams generally carried the notation "money 
on deposit." 

Mr. Hough. That is correct. 

Mr. White. Which meant that the Western Union would guarantee 
that they were holding money in their local office to guarantee that 
bet. 

Mr. Hough. That is right, or it was in process of being sent. 

Mr. White. And some managers kept a running accomit for all the 
bettors in their local office until the end of the month, when they 
settled up with Western Union, whether win or lose, and then either 
would transmit the additional or the balance of the money to Rich or 
Rich would transfer additional money to them. 

Mr. Hough. To make up their losses. 

Mr .White. So their record was not only as agent but also as banker 
for the bookmaker. 

Mr. Hough. That is right. 

Mr. Wallach. Here is a direct request and direct answer as to 
commission. This comes from the manager's office of the Western 
Union Telegraph Co. at Waterville, Maine. Robert L. Goode, ad- 
dressed to C. J. Rich : 

Gentlemen : From your wires to several prospective clients I assume you are 
anxious to open accounts here in this vicinity. I believe that possibly I could 
develop some Inisiness for you in Waterville and surrounding towns and wonder 
if this were possible, just what kind of proposition you could offer. Please write 
me telling me what you can offer in the way of commission for new business 
development on my own time and what you might possibly do in the line of sup- 
plying three or four customers that we would start with in the supplying of the 
daily Racing Form. Thank you for information. 

Very sincerely yours. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 85 

Then there is quite a long letter in reply to it. I will read one 

paragraph : 

We will be glad to make you what we feel is a good proirosition. We will give 
you 25 percent of tlie winnings at the end of each month after deducting the 
necessary expenses as wire charges and form sheets only. 

Then there are various other details. 

The Chairman. So 25 percent of the ;- 

Mr. Hough. This letter said of the winnings. 

The Chairman. Of the winnings. 

Mr. White. Of Rich's winaings. 

The Chairman. After deducting the expense of form sheets and 
telegi'ams only. 

These telegrams, sent back after a person won something or in set- 
tlement of an account by C. J. Rich to the customer, were they sent 
collect or did C. J. Rich pay the charge ? 

Mr. Hough. C. J. Rich paid track odds. 

The Chairman. Did they pay regular rates? 

Mr. Hough. They have some literature here that they paid. I 
don't imagine they paid track odds. 

Mr. Wallach. Here is another : 

Dear Mr. Rich : Enclosed find my check for $200 to be added to my deposit. 

You find a lot of letters like that, for instance. Here is another one 
like that. There are others, some for much greater amounts. 

Here are a lot of New Year and Christmas cards from Western 
Union agents acknowledging Christmas gifts from Rich & Co. 

The Chairman. Did you find out what sort of Christmas gift they 
sent, something they did not expect but appreciated very much? 

Mr. Wallach. One letter said it couldn't have come at a better time. 
I don't know what it was. 

The Chairman. Have you found out what it was ? 

Mr. Wallach. No ; presumably cash. 

The Chair:man. Let me ask you, gentlemen, are there great stacks 
of records and correspondence in addition to what you have here? 

Mr. Hough. Yes. 

The Chairman. For the purpose of our committee hearings, could 
we get photostats of some of these pertinent parts ? 

Mr. Hough. I think Mr. Wliite took a look at them. 

Mr. White. Also we have a copy of this list of names and addresses. 

Mr. Hough. You have these already. 

Mr. White. The list of the Western Union men who are involved. 

Mr. Halley. The card index that you have there, is every card in 
that index somebody whom you have checked and found to be a. 
Western Union operator? 

Mr. Hough. Definitely not. Frankly, we have made no further 
investigation than that — than to go through these records. 

Mr. Halley. What information have you about the people whose 
names are on that card index ? 

Mr. Hough. Utterly nothing except designated as Western Union 
agents by a card on the front. 

The Chairman. You mean it might be possible that some of them are 
Western Union agents who have not yet been hired but are simply 
prospects ? 

Mr. Hough. I didn't understand you. 



86 ORGANIZED CRIME liX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. Is it possible that some of those agents have never 
acted for Rich but are simply prospects ? 

Mr. Hough. They might be prospects. They might be some who 
have turned down the proposition. We don't know. Our investiga- 
tion was completely limited to that which might show the commission 
of a crime in St. Louis County. 

The Chairman. In other words, that is just a card index about 
which you know no more than shows on the face of the card. 

JNIr. Hough. That is right. 

The Chairman. It is interesting, I know on some of these cards, for 
instance here is one M. M. McGuigan, manager, Western Union, Berke- 
ley, W. Va., with a notation after that : "O. K., will take 25 percent 
deal, football, too." And then it has his home address and telephone 
number. 

Mr. Hough. E^adently he handled football bets as well. 

Mr. Hallet. Did Rich book these bets themselves or did they lay 
them off? 

Mr. Hough. That I don't know. The probabilities are that they 
booked them themselves. 

Mr. Halley. Have you examined Rich ? 

Mr. Hough. No ; and of course he would not be available to us. 

Mr. Halley. Or any of the employees? 

Mr. Hough. There were no employees except the major partners. 
In St. Louis County it was a storehouse. What they had on the east 
side, I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Where did the wires come in ? 

Mr. Hough. To East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Not to you. 

Mr. Hough. No. 

Mr. Halley. And these records were found in the storehouse. 

Mr. Hough. At the storehouse. 

Mr. Halley. Has the county attorney at East St. Louis made similar 
demands for records in his territory ? 

Mr. Hough. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Halley. You mean Rich is operating over there with all his 
records intact and they have not been subpenaed ? 

Mr. Hough. No; I don't believe that is so. I believe the records 
were stored. 

Mr. Halley. But his operating records must be wherever the wires 
come in. 

Mr. Hough. Probably so. 

Mr. Halley. Those in the storehouse are probably old stuff. Would 
not that be a fair assumption ^ 

Mr. Hough. No ; this isn't very old. 

Mr. White. Wouldn't the scheme serve for the wires to come into 
the East St. Louis office of Western Union ? 

Mr. Hough. That is right. 

Mr. White. And Mr. Rich or one of his associates would go over 
there every morning and pick up the mail bag full of these telegrams 
and bring tliem over to this side for processing, and the establishment 
in St. Louis consisted only of an outlet of Western Union telegraph 
office, with tlie telegraph office as a mail address, so to speak, and the 
actual o])eration took place over here. 

Mr. Halley. That clarifies it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 87 

Where are Kich's records? He must have kept tabulations of ex- 
2)ense, in his ins and outs, wins and losses. Where were they kept? 

Mr. Hough. I imagine we probably have them out there. We have 
& whole series of books. 

Mr. Halley. Have you looked at them in Western Union ? 

]Mr. Wiii'rE. Yes. We have an inventory of all the documents that 
were taken. We have not analyzed the accounts from the financial 
standpoint. 

Mr. Halley. But they are there. 

Mr. White. They are there. 

Mr. Halley. Can you tell from the other records which of the names 
on this hst are actively employed by Rich, Mr. White ^ 

Mr. AVhite. I think we can show by the telegram bills paid by the 
company, by the Rich Co., to what extent they had business with the 
various cities, and I think the telegraph bills paid coincides in most 
instances with the names on the card index. So it is reasonable to 
assume, from a spot check very casually of these rather voluminous 
records that the people in the card index were all active participants 
in the J. C. Rich scheme. Isn't that your impression, Mr. Wallach? 

Mr. Wallach. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Do we have the record of the payments here now ? 

Mv. Hough. What do you mean, the pay-offs ? 

Mr. Halley. No; the telegraph bills. 

Mr. Hough. We have some of the telegraph bills. They consist of 
two boxes. Here are some bills from April of 1950. Someone said 
someone was interested in the Jersey account. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat I think the committee should have, because this 
committee is very interested in the interstate ramifications of this, is 
the names of the cities in as many States as possible, which is of great 
interest, provided there is reliable evidence that there is an actual 
operation or has been one in such a State. I think Colonel White's 
suggestion — for instance, in the State of Arkansas how many cities 
show telegraph bills ? 

Mr. Hough. That fills two large paper cartons. 

Mr. Wallach. Half the size of this table. 

Mr. Halley. Let's start at the beginning with the city of Arkadel- 
phia, Ark., with a telegraph bill of $26.63 for the month of January 
1950. Is the Western Union for Arkadelphia, Ark., in the card 
index ? 

Mr. White. They are listed by name, not by city, in the index. 

Mr. Halley. For instance, we conclude that the Arkadelphia busi- 
ness comes through a Western Union clerk or that it might be the 
result of Rich's many addressees, which might be completely inde- 
pendent of a Western Union clerk? How can we briclo-e that Erap, 
Colonel White? 

Mr. White. I think it would be self-evident that where there is a 
bill rendered to the C. J. Rich & Co. by Western Union, that of course 
is evidence that C. J. Rich & Co. did pay the charges on messages 
to and from that city and that pursuant to their scheme of operations 
as shown by tlie correspondence here, the agent of the Western Union 
must necessarily have been the agent of and known about the book- 
ing operation involved. 



88 ORGANIZED CRIME ICST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. He would know that a telegram was being sent, but 
would he necessarily be out soliciting the business for Rich and 
getting a commission on it ? 

Mr. White. That could not be determined except in those instances 
where we have si^ecitic correspondence between Rich and the Western 
Union or an individual investigation of each Western Union agent 
listed in these cities. 

Mr. Hallet. It seems to me 

Mr. Hough. A Betty Woodall, Betty J. Woodall, makes the direct 
statement that the commission should be $262 on this. It is written 
on the stationery of the Western Union Telegraph Co. manager's 
office. 

The Chairman. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Wallach. Here is a man who says he is closing the year more 
than $00,000 in the red. 

Mr. Halley. Here she is, Betty J. Woodall, Stuttgart, Ark. 

Mr. Wallach. Here is a man who sold his oil well for $265,000 
and ended up the year in the red $65,000 on bets. 

The Chairman. Here she is, Betty J. Woodall, manager. Western 
Union, Stuttgart, Ark., has $20 written on the card. 

Mr. Hough. $20 or maybe 20 percent. 

Mr. Halley. I think we probably can draw some conclusions, Mr. 
Chairman, and save time and let the investigation proceed. We can 
conclude that Western Union had knowledge that bets were being 
transmitted from every town on this list. We can further conclude 
that certain of the Western Union agents who can be specifically 
identified were undoubtedly acting as commission agents for Rich. 
Exactly how many were we can't tell until a tabulation is made based 
on the correspondence as well as the bills. Although the card index 
might be some result, although it might result in an injustice being 
done. If we assumed that somebody on the list had accepted. As 
you say, somebody on the list might be just one who refused. 

The second question, what other evidence is there other than that 
you have given up to this point involving the managpr of one city 
in Iowa, I believe, that higher officials of Western Union had knowl- 
edeg of this practice. Of course we can assume that the district 
supervisors and such kept a pretty close check of the business that 
their offices had, but that is an assumption that would have to be 
backed up by further investigation. But have you any evidence at 
all that will take this knowledge beyond the individual clerk at the 
Western Union stations, with the exception of one manager? 

Mr. Hough. By that do you mean that some official of the Western 
Union contacted Rich & Co. by letter or some memorandum and sug- 
gested 

Mr. PIalley. I would not go that far, but it stands to reason that 
any large company, the employment of a large number of its clerks 
by some other organization for its own purposes, is bound to be known. 
Western Union had reason to want this clone obviously to get busi- 
ness, but is there any evidence that Western Union connived in this 
and knew it was going on ? 

Mr. Hough. Nothing except the facts that we have here, which Rich 
& Co. received, voluminous correspondence talking about bets, solicit- 



ORGANIZED CRIME IlN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 89 

ing bettors, and upon Western Union stationery and signed as man- 
ager of the specific office to which they were assigned. 

Mr. Halley. Of course, it is obvious if this went on in any office 
the manager had to know it. 

Mr. Hough. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. But in a small town the office consisted probably of 
two or three people, and the manager undoubtedly is the fellow who 
is doing the soliciting. 

Mr. Wallach. Most of that is from managers. 

The Chairman. Do you find any correspondence with any officials 
in the central office of Western Union ? 

Mr. Hough. No, sir ; we did not. 

Mr. Halley. Have any of the managers been interrogated to find 
out if they had clearance from above ? 

Mr. Hough. There were none that were available to us even under 
subpena. They were not in our State. 

Mr. White. You did find considerable correspondence in there that 
would indicate that the managers felt a necessity to build up their 
revenue in the district offices. 

Mr. Hough. Oh, yes ; we did find that, and we found the telegrams 
that ordinarily were sent were obviously making bets. They spoke 
of parlaying and betting across the board, win, and place. 

Mr. White. There was a double motive, one on the part of the 
manager perhaps to obtain a commission on the total winnings, and 
the other to build up the revenue for the company itself as evidenced 
by the correspondence. 

Mr. Hough. There were several letters to that effect. However, I 
would say the principal reason the man was soliciting bets was to 
make a little money. He was getting 25 percent of the winnings. 

The Chairman. What is the evidence or the indication of the size 
of this operation of C. J. Rich Co. ? 

Mr. Hough. I would say somewhere between $150,000 and $300,000 
a month. 

The Chairman. You mean that was the amount of money that 
would be bet with them? 

Mr. Hough. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. In a month. Did you get a ledger that showed it ? 

Mr. Hough. Just from going through these telegrams showing the 
amount of bets, from letters showing the amount of bets, and the bills 
from Western Union Co. 

The Chairman. Are they all on horses, or are they on any other 
sport events ? 

]\Ir. Hough. I see several gentlemen made inquiries as to baseball 
and football bets as well as to Presidential elections. They were re- 
questing the odds on that. 

The Chairman. But you don't find any completed transactions for 
any except horses. 

Mr. Hough. Horses, yes. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Halley. First, Maury Cooper. With reference to Maury 
Cooper, does he operate on an interstate basis to a great extent ? 

Mr. Hough. I would say not. I have known Cooper through repu- 
tation as a local gambler. 

Mr. Halley. He is a big local bookie. 



90 ORGANIZED CRIME I'X INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hough. He has booked, but he is a true gambler. He loves to 
gamble. 

Mr. Halley. That letter you had from somebody in Iowa indicates 
that Cooper has been soliciting these out-of -State bets. 

Mr. Hough. Probably so. He was probably taking the bets off or 
something. 

Mr. Halley. Probably fighting for the business because there 
seemed to be some keen competition up there. 

Mr. Hough. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Have you any information about the interstate opera- 
tions of Cooper at all ? 

Mr. Hough. No. 

M. Halley. He is supposed also to be active in Florida. Did you 
know that ? 

Mr. Hough. No, I did not. 

Mr. Halley. How about this man Carroll here in St. Louis ? Does 
he operate interstate ? 

Mr. Hough. My knowledge of Carroll's operation is simply from 
the newspapers. I have no knowledge of my own. You see, we are 
in the county. Carroll, whatever his operations are, is in the city of 
St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. You do not function in the city after all. 

Mr. Hough. No, sir. It is a different venue altogether. 

The Chairman. So that it will be a part of our record, how would 
it be that we have as an exhibit such information and photostats as 
may work out with you all that we may need for our record. Is that 
satisfactory, gentlemen ? 

Mr. Hough. Yes. 

The Chairman. At this point, Mr. White has a memorandum about 
the operation, doesn't he ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

The Chairman. That will be helpul in the description of the oper- 
ation, and that will be made a part of the record at this time. 

(The documents referred to are identified as exhibits Nos. 17 and 18, 
and are on file with the committee.) 

Tlie Chairman. How about the Melba Co. ? 

Mr. Hough. Melba ? I don't think I have ever heard of that. 

Mr. Halley. They operate in the city. His jurisdiction is outside 
of the city. He was just explaining that. 

Tile Chairman. I thought there was some information that they 
had an office in St. Louis also. 

Mr. Halley. He would not know about what happened in St. Louis, 
you see. He is in St. Louis County. 

Mr. Hough. We have three jurisdictions all of which are foreign 
to each other. 

The Chairman. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. We certainly do thank you very much, Mr. Wallacli 
and Mr. Hough. 

Mr. Boyle, I am glad to see you, sir. Do you solemnly swear that 
the testimony you will give this committee will be the whole truth 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Boyle. I do. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 91 

TESTIMONY OF J. W. BOYLE, PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT, FIRST NA- 
TIONAL BANK BUILDING, EAST ST. LOUIS, ILL. 

Mr, Halley. Mr. Boyle, what is your occupation ? 

Mr. Boyle. I am a public accountant. 

j\Ir. Halley. And where is your office located ? 

Mr. Boyle. First National Bank Building, East St. Louis, 111. We 
have a branch office at No. 4 North Eighth Street, St. Louis. 

Ml". Halley. A subpena was served on you for the production of 
certain records. Do you have a copy of the subpena with you? 

Mr. Boyle. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. May I have it? [Document produced.] 

You were served in East St, Louis. Did you construe this subpena 
to be limited in any way to records in your possession in East St. 
Louis? 

Mr. Boyle, No, no. We have no records in our St. Louis office that 
pertain to this information. 

Mr. Halley. The sub])ena directs you to bring with you all books 
and records of transactions relative to certain people, I will list 
them and will you tell the committee whether you do represent them 
or ever have represented them and then whether you have any books 
and records in your possession. 

The first is Frank Wortman. 

Mr. Boyle. No. 

Mr. Halley. You never have represented him ? 

Mr, Boyle. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Ed Wortman. 

Mr. Boyle. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley, John English. 

Mr, Boyle, Yes, sir; not in connection with this Harlem Associa- 
tion, but we have made tax returns for John T, English, of East St. 
Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have copies of those returns here ? 

Mr. Boyle. I have them at my office. I don't have them here. 

Mr. Halley. They were intended to be included in this subpena. 
Can you get those ? 

Mr. Boyle. lean get them ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. With tlie work sheets pertaining to them. 

Mr. Boyle. All the information we have, we will have with them. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

Frank Hackethal ? 

Mv. Boyle. Yes ; we made tax returns and we have them here. 

Mr. Halley. Now the Harlem and Eagle Park Lottery. 

Mr. Boyle. The Harlem Association is a partnership which is a 
successor to the Eagle Park Association. I have the tax returns and 
the reports and working papers that we have had in connection with 
the preparation of those returns. 

The Chairman. What is the name of that association? 

Mr. Boyle. Harlem, H-a-r-1-e-m. 

The Chairman. This is a partnership ? 

Mr. Boyle. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Who are the partners ? 

68958 — 51 — pt. 4a 7 



92 ORGANIZED CRIME IflST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Boyle. Would you care to take them off here [indicating paper] ? 
I believe that would probably be a little faster. 

The Chairman. This is part of the record, so we can get it from that. 

Mr. Boyle. Yes. 

The Chairman. The answer to that is that there are about 11 part- 
ners on the records which you have submitted to the committee. 

Mr. Boyle. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. The technical name is Harlem Association. 

Mr. Boyle. Yes. 

]\Ir. Halley. What is its business ? 

Mr. Boyle. It is a policy game. 

The Chairman. Tell us how it operates. 

Mr. Boyle. I don't know. I will tell you what I know about it. 
The people who are called writers buy sales books of tickets from this 
organization, and they sell chances — not chances, you might say bets — 
to colored people primarily, who pick combinations of numbers. They 
fix these numbers on these tickets and get a receipt for whatever sums 
of money they may bet. These tickets, one copy apparently is turned in 
to this organization together with the money, and twice daily when 
they are operating they have a drawing. If the number of any indi- 
vidual comes up in sequence in the numbers that are drawn they win 
certain moneys. 

(Off the record.) 

The Chairman. Where are most of the sales made? 

Mr. Boyle. I haven't the remotest idea. 

The Chairman. Lovejoy is right across the river, is it? 

Mr. Boyle. Lovejoy is in Illinois, that is correct, sir. 

The Chairman. Just across the river. 

Mr. Boyle. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. How do you get your information ? 

jMr. Boyle. We send one of our men up there once a month and he 
examines their books. 

Mr. Halley. Where do you send your man, to an office? 

Mr. Boyle. To Lovejoy. 

Mr. Halley. Where is the office located? 

Mr. Boyle. I couldn't give you the exact address. Lovejoy is a 
small Negro town, practically a one-street affair. It is on the main 
street. It is a large wooden building. I have been there once or twice. 
I don't know the exact address. 

Mr. Halley. Do your men when they go to Lovejoy see books and 
records from which they take certain information ? 

Mr. Boyle. Surely. They keep records. 

Mr. Halley. Right in that office ? 

Mr. Boyle. Where the records come from. 

Mr. Halley. They keep records right in the office at Lovejoy. 

Mr. Boyle. That is right. 

The Chairman. What does "take" mean here? The first thing, 
you have "take" and "hits" and "profit." 

Mr. Boyle. "Take" means the money that is taken in, the gross 
money. The "hits" mean the amount of money that is paid back. 
The balance would be the profit or loss. 

Mr. Halley. What are these different games? Panama, M. K. T., 
Dream, and Money Bags? 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 93 

Mr. Boyle. I couldn't tell you, sir. It is too complicated for me, 
those money games. 

Mr. Halley, It sounds almost incredible that in the period from 
January 1 to March 31 in the games — let's take Panama. I don't 
know the game, but I presume the game is rigged by the people who 
run it. How could they be hit for more money than they took in? 
They are not stupid people, are they? They don't set up their own 
game so they pay out more than they take ? 

Mr. Boyle. The supposition is that the clerks they have working 
for them are smarter than the management. 

Mr. Halley. You mean somebody is stealing some money some- 
where ? 

Mr. Boyle. That is the supposition. 

Mr. Halley. You don't set up and operate a gambling game at odds 
so that you are paying out more than you are taking in. That is 
utterly impossible. 

Mr. Boyle. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Therefore if they say they were hit for $135,000 and 
their total take was $131,000, giving a loss of $3,627.95, the inevitable 
conclusion would be that somebody has stolen some money. 

Mr. Boyle. That would be my impression, yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Mr. Boyle, you say that these drawings are made 
twice a day, and they are drawn presumably by drawing numbers 
out of a bowl or something of that sort. Isn't any numbers or lottery 
scheme paid off in accordance with certain set figures published in the 
newspapers so they couldn't be juggled? Isn't that correct? 

Mr. Boyle. I believe this organization has a set schedule of odds, 
that they pay for different combinations. I don't believe that their 
conclusions or the dominant factor that determines the win or lose has 
anything to do with the published figures like Treasury receipts or 
anything of that character. 

Mr. White. To arrive at the winning number they merely pull a 
number out of the hat themselves as opposed presumably to a fool- 
proof scheme where they take the day's Treasury receipts from a 
newspaper. 

Mr. Boyle. They have some elaborate method for pulling these 
things out. I have never seen it operated and I am not an authority 
on it. 

Mr. White. I am sure you are not. 

Mr. Boyle. I believe they have open drawings. I don't know, 
but I believe that these games are patronized about 100 percent by 
Negroes. I don't believe anybody would care to be there. 

Mr. Halley. What I want to "know, Mr. Boyle, hasn't the Bureau 
of Internal Revenue contested these figures? 

Mr. Boyle. They check these people regularly. 

Mr. Haley. They have a representative here, do they not? Do 
you want to take a look at this chart? We will ask for your help as 
an expert. 

The Chairman. Let me see, there are 12 partners listed with various 
percentages of ownership. You seem to have three, Mr. D. C. Watson. 
F. Hackethal and C. E. Tietje, who are the partners that apparently 
draw salaries, so I take it they actually do the work, do you know ? 

Mr. Boyle. I believe so ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Where do they live? 



94 ORGAXIZED CRIME I'X INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Boyle. Let's see, now. Mr. Tietje, I believe, lives in East St. 
Louis. Who was the first man, Watson? I think he lives in Lovejoy. 
He is a colored man. The other man lives in Madison County north 
of Nameoki. 

Mr. White. We have him under subpena. 

JNIr. Halley. Let's take a look at these figures. Here is a game 
called Panama, which is one of their numerous games. They claim 
that their total intake was less than the total number they have had 
to pay out. On the surface it is absolutely impossible. Even their 
own accountant here, as you have seen, will agree with that. He says 
one of the employees must have stolen it. Of course that is one con- 
clusion. Another conclusion is that they are falsifying the takes or 
the hits. I don't know which conclusion would be right, but it is 
obvious that nobody could possibly be stui:)id enough to set up a 
numbers game in which he would be hit for more than he took in. 

Mr, Donald McClure (special agent. Internal Revenue Service, St. 
Louis). It does seem strange. 

The Chairman. All right, let's see what else Mr. Boyle has here. 

Mr. Halley. Do we have all these records now ? You have given us 
a batch of records which are the records of the Harlem Association, is 
that right ? 

Mr. Boyle. That is right, and the Eagle Park Association, which 
was its predecessor. 

Mr. Halley. We will take them one at a time. I offer in evidence 
the records of the Harlem lotteries produced by Mr. Boyle. 

The Chairman. That will be received in evidence and made a part 
of the record. 

(The documents referred to were identified as exhibit No. 19 and 
were returned to the witness after analysis bj'- the committee.) 

Mr. Halley. We have all the records which you have of the Harlem 
Lotteries ? 

Mr. Boyle. Yes, you have all our records pertaining to it. 

Mr. Halley. And their records are in their own office ? 

Mr. Boyle. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And you have seen them there ? 

Mr. Boyle. We deliver them to them and our man checks them. 

JNIr. Halley. You have some records of the Eagle Park Lottery, I 
think you said. 

Mr. Boyle. That is correct. 

]Mr. Halley. We offer in evidence the records of the Eagle Park 
Lottery. 

(The documents referred to were identified as exhibit No. 20, and 
were later returned to the witness.) 

Mr. Halley. Where is Eagle Park? 

Mr. Boyle. That is a predecessor partnership to this other one. 

Mr. White. It is exactly the same organization with a different 
name, isn't that correct? 

Mr. Boyle. That is right. 

Mr. Halley, You have records pertaining to the Hyde Park Club? 

Mr. Boyle. No, we know nothing about the Hyde Park Club or any 
of tlie individuals involved in it. 

]Mr. Halley. You have never done any work for them? 

Mr. Boyle. That is quite correct. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IiN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 95 

Mr. Halley. Louis Arcatera ? 

INIr. Boyle. No. 

Mr. Halley. You have done no work for them? 

Mr. Boyle. No. 

JVIr. Halley. Gregory Eeed Moore ? 

Mr. Boyle. The same for him. 

Mr. Halley. And J. T. Connor ? 

Mr. Boyle. That is right, the same for him. 

Mr. White. You did say you had some records of J. T. Connor? 

JNIr. Boyle. No, no. 

IVIr. White. I am sorry. 

Mr. Boyle. In connection with the Harlem Association, the sub- 
peiui asked for records in connection with one John English in con- 
nection witli the Harlem Association. 

]VIr. White. No. 

Mr. Boyle. John English is not connected with the Harlem Associa- 
tion so far as we know. 

Mr. Whiit:. In any case the intent of the subpena was to call for 
any records that were in your possession relative to financial transac- 
tions of Mr. John English. Do you have any such records ? 

Mr. Boyle. We have tax returns of Mr. John English, the commis- 
sioner in East St. Louis. We will be happy to send them over. 

Mr. White. Will you do so, please. Do you represent the East Side 
Service Co.? 

Mr. Boyle. No. 

Mr. White. Mr. Boyle, when Mr. Hackethal was subpenaed and 
was directed to bring with him all books, records, and tax returns of 
his own and also the records of the Eagle Park and Harlem lottery, 
Mr. Hackethal stated to me that he did not think that you would give 
him those records. Can you give me an explanation of why he would 
think that you would not give him such records ? 

Mr. Boyle. I haven't the remotest idea. The records we have are 
ours, and they are open to our clients if they want them. They cer- 
tainly are entitled to examine them. We clon't make a business of 
parting with file records, but we do make copies of them. People lose 
tax retui-ns and we constantly make copies for them. 

Mr. White. The implication of what Mr. Hackethal told me was 
that you would not permit that information to be disclosed, and I 
wondered if you could give any explanation for that rather curious 
attitude on his part. 

Mr. Boyle. I am sorry, I can't. The information the Government 
wants we are going to disclose very rapidly. 

The Chairman. Anything else? ' 

Mr. Halley. What other records have you with you? 

Mr. Boyle. Frank Hackethal's file of tax returns. 

Mr. Halley. We wnll take it into the record, if you will identify it. 
Is that all Frank Hackethal ? 

INIr. Boyle. No, this one file is of Frank Hackethal. The other files 
are Harlem Association and Eagle Park. 

Mr. Halley. Fine. That Avill all be taken in. 

The Chairman. That will be made a part of the record. 

(The documents referred to were identified as exhibit No. 21 and 
were later returned to the witness.) 

Mr. Boyle. He is one of the partners of the Harlem Association. 



96 ORGANIZED CRIME liN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Do 3^011 knoAv who does the accounting for the Hyde 
Park Club? 

Mr. Boyle. It is my understanding — I don't know this to be a fact, 
but it is my understanding that an individual by the name of James 
Brown does that. 

Mr. Halley. Does he have an office ? 

Mr. Boyle. James W. Brown. I believe he has an office in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Boyle. 

Mr. B0Y1.E. Gentlemen, I would like to ask you — I have a brief case 
here. Some time in the future may I reclaim these files ? 

Mr. Halley. Why not do this? You don't need the brief case? 
eW have done this in the past where we don't want to keep files in- 
definitely. If you don't need the brief case, we will keep them in the 
brief case so they will be intact. 

The Chairman. Mr. White is going to remain here after our Kan- 
sas City hearing and he will get the files back to you. 

Mr. Boyle. Very good. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr: Boyle. We thank you very much. 

Mr. Boyle. I will send you the other files. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. Are you Mr. Hackethal? Come over here, sir, if 
you please. Mr. Hackethal, do you solemnly swear that the testimony 
you will give this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, sir; I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FRANK HACKETHAL, NAMEOKI, ILL. 

Mr. Halley. What is your business, Mr. Hackethal ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I am not working at all at the present time. I 
have been out of work about a year. I live at Nameoki, 111. 

Mr. Halley. Illinois? 

Mr. Hackethal. Illinois. 

Mr. Halley. You say you have been out of work for about a year ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Almost a year. 

Mr. Halley. Have you had no occupation whatsoever? 

Mr. Hackethal. No. 

Mr. Halley. Have you drawn any salary from any business ? 

Mr. Hackethal. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are you sure of that ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Well, now, no I haven't drawn any salai-y, but 
I did have an interest in the Harlem Association. I drew my per- 
centage when they operated. 

Mr. Halley. Whut is the Harlem Association ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Maybe we are getting the horse before the cart 
here, but that is what I mean. 

Mr. Halley. What is the Harlem Association? 

Mr. Hackethal. It is a policy game. 

Mr. Halley. What kind of policy game? 

Mr. Hackethal. I never heard of only one kind of policy game. 
The principle of this game is that a number of writers, I think 99 
percent of them are colored, in fact at least that many, have their 
little districts or areas or little stations where they have their cus- 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 97 

tomers come in and write plays with them. We have little capsules — 
that was our arranojement. Recently we have changed that and 
have little plastic balls that have the numbers. The little plastic — 
I haven't been down there since they have this other outfit. They are 
3 inches long and a half inch in diameter. Inside of that is a paper 
with a large figure. It is 3 inches square, this paper, bond paper. 
It has a number printed on there, from 1 to 78, inclusive. The writer 
sits at his desk. He has a little sales book. The customer comes 
in and he will say "I want to play some numbers." "O. K., what do 
you want?" Those people generally play on hunches. Say this is 
the seventh month and the eighteenth day. He will say "I will take 
7 and 18, and I want to play a nickel on that. I want to play it 
straight. That is, he bets that those two numbers — there are 12 
drawn out of the 78 when the drawing occurs. If those two num- 
bers come together, that is like betting a horse to win. It is the same 
principle as a horse race. Or he can say sides and flats. Of course 
if they come together and he plays them straight he gets $9. If they 
don't come together, are separated by one or more numbers, he doesn't 
get anything. 

In case he plays them for sides and flats, he might put a nickel for 
straight and a nickel side and flat. In that case, say the numbers are 
sided together, for that dime he would get $14.25. He would get $9 
for his one nickel and $5.25 for the other. 

It is like betting a horse to win and to show. I guess place is the 
next position. 

In case he just plays the side and flat, and the numbers are separated 
by one or more numbers, he gets 75 cents. That protects his number. 
That is the principle of the policy game. 

The newspapers have always confused the policy game with the 
lottery. The policy game is not a lottery. In order to constitute a 
lottery, we have the rulings from Washington on this, the writer or the 
operator, rather, or his agent, must sell a number or a series of num- 
bers. In other words, if I have a bunch of tickets in my pocket, with 
all five numbers, I take them out and say would you like to take a 
number today ? You take one. I have sold you a number there, you 
see. That constitutes the lottery. We have rulings on that, which is, 
we understand, a violation of the Federal laws, but the policy game we 
don't sell them anything. We don't even sell them that piece of }:)aper 
that they write their numbers on. It is just like a bingo game. Then 
the writer after he has written his book, we will say he writes $40 
worth of plays today, then he brings those up. They are called a book. 
They are written in triplicate. 

jNIr. Halley. Where are most of your customers ? 

Mr. Hackethal. In East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have customers in St. Louis? 

Mr. Hackethal. Well, we don't know that, you see, because there 
may be j^eople who come over from St. Louis and bring plays over 
there and give them to the writers there. We don't have any office 
or anything like that in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. "Wliy do you not? Is there not a large Negro popu- 
lation in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Because we have a fair business over there and 
we have never tried to expand into St. Louis. 



98 ORGANIZED CRIME I'X INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Kalley. Are you afraid to get into an interstate operation? 

Mr. Hackethal. Oh, no. We are not afraid of that. There are 
some writers over there. 

My. Halley. There are some writers over there ? 

Mv. Hackethal. There are writers to bring plays over from St. 
Louis. 

Mr. Halley. You know that, don't you ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes. I don't know how many there are. You 
see 



Mr. Halley. But you would be willing to admit there must be some. 

Mr. Hackethal. Oh, yes, I would. 

Mr. Halley. You know it right now, don't you ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Well, when I left there, almost a year ago, there 
were St. Louis writers ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. There were people that you knew who lived in St. 
Louis to do your writing and they worked over here. 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes ; I will answer that, surely. 

Mr. Halley. The question was you have jDeople who you knew lived, 
in St. Louis, operated in St. Louis and wrote their numbers here in 
St. Louis. 

Mr. Hackethal. That is true. 

Mr. White. Fortune Humphries is one of those operators ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Fortune Humphries ; yes. The only name I ever 
knew him by was "Nails." He had long fingernails. 

Mr. Halley. You say you worked until about a year ago? 

Mr. Hackethal. I think I left there in September. I went to 
Mayo's to have a very serious operation and I have been unable to work 
since. 

Mr. Halley, What did you do there when you worked ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I sort of oversaw the place and watched those 
people so there wouldn't be any stealing. It is a full-time job for 
about three men in there looking after that. All of our help, with 
the exception of three, I believe, are colored. We have three in the 
office. Those writers are independent agents. We have a ruling on 
that also. We don't pay any social security on them. We have no 
jurisdiction over them. We don't transport them. 

Mr. Halley. We are not beating about the bush. You know what 
they are doing and tliey are doing it for you. Whether they are inde- 
pendent agents or not, legally, isn't of great interest at that point. 

Mr. Hackethal. They are not doing it for us. We don't hire them. 
They are doing it for themselves on 25-percent commission. They 
bring in the plays. In round figiires they play in, say $40. They 
pay us $30, they keep $10 and we take the chances on the plays. 

Mr. Halley. Let's stay right with this thing. How many partners 
are there in the Harlem Association and who are they ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I })elieve it would be much better — Mr. Boyle was 
out there and he has all those records and the names of the partners. 
This was given to me yesterday, and those are the partners and their 
percentages. Some of them just have the name of Frank and Cliff, 
and so on. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get this, from Boyle? 

Mr. Hackethal. From Boyle's office. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 99 

Mr. Halley. Then it is just the same as what he had. How do you 
get to be a partner in the Harlem Association ? How did you get to 
iDe a partner? 

Mr. Hackethal. In 1941, in March, Mr. Harry Murdock, who is 
now deceased, sent to me, he lived out on Collinsville Road. He asked 
me to look after this thing. For 3 months straight they had had ter- 
rific losses. He said somebody down there is stealing. 

]\Ir. Halley. You can't lose money in that business unless somebody 
steals ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Hackethal. There are so many ways of their changing num- 
bers and things of that sort. That was my duty, to watch that part 
of it. He said I want you to get down there and take charge of that. 
You are going to be the boss. I said, "Hari-y, I don't know anything 
about tlie game. I don't know anything about that." 

He said, "You go down there and stand around and you are smart 
enough to know whether they are stealing or not." 

Mr. Halley. Who was this who asked you to do that? 

Mr. Hackethal. Harry Murdock. 

My. Halley. Is he a partner ? 

Mr. Hacivethal. No; he is dead now. It was Harry Murdock, 
Eddy Pohlman, brothers-in-law, Clifford Phayer, who is down in 
Oklahoma drilling some oil wells — or trying to. Those three men. 

Mr. Haijley. Did they organize it? 

Mr. Hackethal. They organized it. 

Mr. Haij:.ey. Who decides what interest these persons should have? 
For instance, we have Vic Doyle here, at 17 percent. Who figures 
that out ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Each of those had 25 percent, Watson, Pohlman, 
Murdock, and Phayer. Then later Mr. Pohlman let me have 5 per- 
cent. Valuation of the equipment and the money we had in there was 
about $18,000. So I paid him 5 percent of $18,000 which gave me a 
5 percent interest. Later, Murdock sold me 2i/2 percent. In the mean- 
time Clifford Phayer — there have been a lot of partners and there 
have been a lot of changes made in this. Clifforcl Phayer sold some 
of his to George Stearns and to Benny Frissell and to Pete Dematies. 
They were all residents of Nameoki, where I live. 

Mr. Whete. They were all well-known gamblers, were they not? 

Mr. Hackethal. Oh, no. They were real-estate men. Dematies 
ran a filing station, so I understand. I didn't know him very well. 
But Stearns has been a real-estate man all his life. Eddy Frissell 
has been a real-estate man all his life. 

Mr. Halley. You get a share of the profit; is that right? 

Mr. Hackethal. That is right. I got 8 percent, 

Mr, Halley. You also get a salary, do you not? 

Mr. Hackethal. When I work. 

Mr. Halley. Don't you get a salary today? 

Mr. Hackethal, No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are you absolutely sure of that? 

Mr. Hackethal. I am. My income-tax returns will show that, and 
we have them all. 

Mr. Halley. If the books and i-ecords of the company show you get 
a salary would you say the books are wrong? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, sir; if they have me down for a salary they 
put it down there wrong. 



100 ORGANIZED CRIME IiN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. H ALLEY. Without your knowing it? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You have gotten no salary since when ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I think we worked about a month after the first 
of the year. I went down there a week, and I had an operation and 
the doctor warned me not to do anything for a year and a lialf. 

Mr. Halley, When was this ? 

Mr. Hackethal. At Mayo Brothei-s in October. 

Mr. Halley. October of 1949 ? 

Mr. Hackethal. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Have you done any work since then at all ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Nothing, only I built a house and I tinkered 
around. 

Mr. Halley. Referring to Harlem, have you done any work for 
Harlem ? 

Mr. Hackethal. No, no. 

Mr. Halley. You said you worked about a month since the first of 
the year. 

Mr. Hackethal. I think it was about that much. 

Mr. Halley. What year, this year or 1949? 

Mr. Hackethal. I came back on Thanksgiving Day. I don't re- 
member now. It was just before the New Year or the month after. 

Mr. Halley. It was after your operation ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Halley. You did work for about a month ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I think about a month. The record will show 
that conclusively. 

Mr. Halley. This lottery is illegal in Illinois, is it not, or this policy 
game as you call it? 

Mr. Hackethal. You mean for the State of Illinois? 

Mr. Halley. For the State of Illinois. 

Mr. Hackethal. I suppose the law enforcement could close it like 
they do the bingo games. 

Mr. Halley. Why don't they close it ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I don't know. I will tell you one reason they don't^ 
because we kept 500 incapacitated Negroes off the relief rolls in St. 
Clair County. That is one reason. 

Mr, Halley, They knew you were keeping these Negi-oes off the 
relief rolls? 

Mr, Hackethal, I am sure they did. 

Mr. Halley. Then they also must have known you were operating a: 
policy game. 

Mr, Hackethal. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley, They could not know one without knowing the other. 

Mr. Hackethal, They know when it goes down. They are all 
down on relief rolls. 

Mr. Halley, Then they do know you are operating a policy game. 

INIr, Hackethal, I don't know what they laiow because I don't 
know any of those people. I never had any contact with them. I am 
from Madison County and I work down there. I don't know those- 
people or what they know. I have never discussed those things with 
them. 

The Chairman. Would it be convenient for 5^ou to come back at 2: 
o'clock ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 101 

Mr. Haokethal. Certainly. 

The Chatrman. All riglit, sir. We will excuse you until then. 
(Wliereupon, at 12 : 40 p. m. the committee recessed until 1 : 45 p. m. 
the same day.) 

afternoon session 

(Whereupon, the committee reconvened at 2 : 20 p. m. pursuant to 
the taking of the noon recess.) 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Hackethal. 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF FRANK HACKETHAL, NAMEOKI, ILL. 

Mr. H ALLEY. When we adjourned for lunch you were explaining to 
us how it was possible for a policy game to operate without being inter- 
fered with by the police or the sheriff's office or the State's attorney. 

Would you tell us about that, Mr. Hackethal ? 

Mr. Hackethal. In the first place, this policy room is a large room 
as wide as that, a little wider, and almost twice as long. 

Mr. Halley. You mean the office ? 

Mr. Hackethal. No, sir ; that is the room where the drawing is held. 

Mr. Halley. I see. 

Mr. Hackethal. In there there are a number of chairs and tables 
where the writers come in to check their books and whatnot. In back 
of that is a long counter where our clerks work. Those are our em- 
ployees back of the counter. We have a doorman. When those people 
come up there we try to keep out any extra visitors, not that we have 
ever tried to keep anyone out, but because of the space. The doorman 
knew all the writers who brought those books in and would permit 
them. But the doors open and close at wiT. There never has been a 
police officer or any official to my knowledge down there as long as I 
was there, and I was there I would say from ma:v be March 1941. 

Mr. Halley. Where is this office located ? 

Mr, Hackethal. It is located at Second and Madison Streets in 
Brooklyn. It is in the back of the tavern, in the back and to the side 
of the tavern. 

Mr. Halley. Is Brooklyn a separate city ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Oh, no; that is Lovejoy. It was called Brooklyn 
some years ago. The post office gave it a new name, Lovejoy. 

Mr. Halley. Is Lovejoy a separate municipality? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, it is ; 2,200 people. 

Mr. Halley. Does it have a mayor ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. A chief of .police ? 

Mr. Hackethal. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know them personally ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I know Mayor William Terry. 

Mr. Halley. Where do you live ? 

]\Ir. Hackethal. I live at Nameoki. 

Mr. Halley. Near Lovejoy? 

JNlr. Hackethal. It is 8 miles, I would say. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever contributed to the campaign of the 
mayor ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I never have. 



102 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mv. Halley. Or any other public official ? 

Mr. Hackethal,, No public officials. 

INIr. Halley. Do you think any of the people in the policy game, the 
Harlem game, for instance, contribute? 

Mr. Hackethal. If they do, sir, it would be unbeknown to me, 
because if they do they do it out of their personal funds and personal 
money. 

Mr. Halley. I am going to ask you a question, and I want to preface 
it. We are investigating this and we are going to go through with it. 

Mr. Hackethal. I will answer truthfully. 

Mr. Halley. At this point your answer will just be for the record 
and for purposes of possibly later on finding out if you i^erjured 
yourself. 

Mr. Hackethal. All right. 

Mr. Halley. Does the Harlem policy game, which is known as — 
wliat is the technical name of it? 

Mr. Hackethal. Harlem Association. 

Mr. Halley. Does the Harlem Association pay off or bribe any 
public official whatsoever in connection with its operations? 

Mr. Hackethal. No, sir. I can say this. 

Mr. Halley. Has it ever to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Hackethal. No, sir. I was the only man outside of D. C. 
Watson, who is a Negro, wdio was authorized to sign checks. No one 
else. And every disbursement was made by me. You will find that 
we have Mr. Boyle's records, our payroll for each week, and I write 
a check for the full amount of that payroll. All of our money is 
banked, and it is withdrawn by check only. There is no other way 
of withdrawing from the bank. 

JVIr. Halley. Are you now testifying that there are no cash dis- 
bursements made by Harlem Association? 

Mr. Hackethal. If there is, there is a bill in Mr, Boyle's file for it. 
Maybe a man will come in from Wood Stationery, with, say, a gross of 
pencils or some ink or something like that. Then the bookkeeper, the 
clerk, has the authority, we have a cash fund of $200, we keep $200, 
and lie pays out of this cash box, and he puts the bill in there. When 
Mr. Boyle's man comes up there he has all these bills in readiness for 
him, and of course that is all audited. 

Mr. Halley. I will ask you just once again. Have you anj^ knowl- 
edge of any bribe that was ever paid by or on behalf of the Harlem 
Association to any public official, police officer, or political figure 
whatsoever? 

Mr. Hackethal. No, sir. The only money that has ever gone out — 
and these are right in your records — is at the time we have the police 
circus here in St. Louis, they have a committee of four or five police 
officers who make the rounds of the tri-cities, the garages, stores, 
taverns, and what not, and they have those police circus tickets, for 
the police fund. We have alw^ays bought 25 or so of those. I have 
bought them myself and would turn in the bill down to my bookkeeper. 
I would be reimbursed for that out of the cash fund, and those tickets 
would give to the children up at Nameoki, children up there who 
couldn't afford it, also not the police department alone, the fire de- 
partment is the same thing. They would send their men over every 
year. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 103 

Mr. Halley. Would the policemen and firemen come right up to 
the hall ? 

Mr. Hackethal. No. In fact, our doorman wouldn't permit them 
to come in if they did go there. Sometimes, on several occasions I 
saw them at Joe Goodrich's. They have the same committee and 
they know me ancl would ask, ''Frank, do you want to buy some 
tickets," and I say "Yes, I will." I bought them myself. I didn't 
ask the other partners if I could, I took it on myself to do that. I 
gave them away. 

Mr. Halley. Do you belong to any other association or company 
or do you have an investment in any other company in the policy 
business ? 

Mr, Hackethal. No. sir; this is the only connection I have ever 
had with the so-called gambling. 

The CiiAiRMAX. I notice here for the year 1948 you say you made 
$14,052 out of this Harlem Association ; is that right? 

Mr. Hackethal. Well, whatever Mr. Boyle's records show. 

The Chairman. What percentage of the income would that be? 

Mr. Hackethal. Eight percent, sir. That is what I get, 8 percent. 

The Chairman. So. the total profit or what not would be about 

Mr. Hackethal. Eight percent of it would be what the figure is. 

The Chairman. It would be about 12 times that amount; about 
$200,000, I guess. Anyway. $14,000 was 8 percent of it. 

Mr. Hackethal. I believe, Mr. Kefauver, somewhere in the yearly 
report it would give you the exact figures on that. I think Mr. 
Boyle after the first of the year would compile the entii-e earnings of 
the association, and I think it is in one of those forms there. 

The Chairman. It would be about $175,000. 

Mr. Hackethal. That would be distributed among the partners. 

The Chair3ian. Anything else, Mr. Halley? Mr. White? 

Mr. White. You say you started in this business about 1941 ? 

Mr. Hackethal. About 1941. 

Mr. White. Do I understand correctly that prior to 1941 you were 
in prison? 

Mr. Hackethal. That is right. 

Mr. White. For how long a term? 

Mr. Hackethal. Well, I had a 25-year sentence, which would be 16 
years and 8 months, and I think I saved about a year and a half as 
trusty. 

]Mr. White. Were you involved in a crime with a man named Eppel- 
sheimer ? 

Mr. Hackenthal. He was implicated in that. It won't take long to 
explain this. I had a resort in Illinois. These men were supposed 
to have stolen a car in St. Louis and driven it over to Illinois for the 
purpose of robbing the mails. They came over to my place late at 
night, after 12 o'clock, parked the car back in my parking grounds. 
Of course, I had some cottages, about 30, and they went back to St. 
Louis, so it was testified, and got their men and their guns and they 
went up to Staunton, 111. They were misinformed by the fellow up 
there. He expected this money to come in about 7 o'clock in the 
morning, but it didn't show up — this will be only a minute now, Mr. 
White, if you will let me have it. He said, "Come back at 5 o'clock." 
At 5 o'clock they parked this car down in the timber up near Wood 
Eiver, so the testimony was. At 5 o'clock they went up and got this 



104 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

car and robbed the postmaster and took $54,000 and went on to St. 
Louis or wherever they went; I don't know. They testified they 
went to St. Louis and cut Up this money. They charged me with 
having given them permission to park that car in my grounds. 

The Cel\ir]vian. How much time did they give you '^ 

Mr. Hackethal. Twenty-five years. I did it both in Leavenworth 
and at Atlanta and Springfield, 111. 

Mr. White. It was about 1941 when you came out of the peni- 
tentiary ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. It was about the first day of 1941 ? 

Mr. Hackethal, how long have you had this house that you own in 
Nameoki ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I started building that about 18 months ago. 

Mr. White. What was the total cost of that house? 

Mr. Hackethal. A whole lot more than I will get for it. I will be 
glad to sell it for $33,000, the land and all, and my work for 18 months- 
not included in there. 

Mr. White. But you didn't answer my question. How much have 
you invested in the house ? 

Mr. Hackethal. I would say $37,000. 

Mr. White. It is all paid for? 

Mr. Hackethal. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. So, between 1941 and 1947 you had accumulated more 
than $30,000 from your activities in the policy game? 

Mr. Hackethal. Not all of it. I had some money when I came ou:t 
of the penitentiary. 

Mr. White. Have you any explanation of why the authorities have 
made no attempt to molest an operation that nets something like 
$175,000 a year? 

Mr. Hackethal. No ; only as I explained before, we have 500 in- 
capacitated people who have been given employment. Some of them 
earn $1 a day on their commissions ; some maybe $2 ; maybe some of 
them only 50 cents; another one maybe $5, and so on. Of course, 
there are bigger writers who are more active. 

Mr. Halley. Who offered you that job in 1941 ? 

Mr. Hackethal. Mr. Harry Murdock, who is now dead. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you meet Mr. Murdock ? 

Mr. Hackethal. He worked for me many years ago, before pro- 
hibition. He worked as a waiter at my place at Long Lake, at Mitchell, 
111. 

Mr. Halley. Was he one of the original founders ? 

Mr. Hackethal. He and Cliff Phayer and D. C. Watson and Eddy 
Pohlman. Eddy Pohlman now, of course, is dead. They are both 
dead now, both Mr. Pohlman and Mr. Murdock. They were brothers- 
in-law. 

The Chairman. Is that all? 

Mr. White. That is all I have, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, thank you, Mr. Hackethal. 

Mr. Hackethal. Thank you folks very much. If I can be of any 
help, call on me anytime and I will be glad to answer either by letter 
or in person. 

Mr. White. Mr. Charles Porter, please. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 105 

The Chairman. Mr. Charles Porter. 

Mr. Porter, how are you today, sir ? Will you hold up your hand. 
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this committee 
will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Porter. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF CHAELES PORTER, OWNER AND PUBLISHER, 
FESTUS DAILY NEWS DEMOCRAT, FESTUS, MO. 

The Chairman. What is your occupation, Mr. Porter? 

Mr. Porter. I am publisher of the Daily News Democrat, owner 
and publisher, at Festus, Mo. 

Mr. Halley. Is your residence Festus, Mo. ? 

Mr. F'orter. That is right. 

JNIr. Hallet. Mr. Porter, in 1948 did you have a certain conversa- 
tion with William Molasky concerning the gubernatorial campaign? 

Mr. Porter. I did. 

Mr. Halley. Would 3'ou tell the committee where you had such 
conversation ? 

Mr. Porter. It was during the gubernatorial campaign, and, as I 
remember, it was along pretty late in the campaign. Mr. Molasky 
called me one day and asked me to drop by his office the first time I 
was m St. Louis, and I did in the next few days. He told me that he 
wanted to make a contribution of $2,500 to Forrest Smith's campaign. 
He said he didn't want it to go to the Democratic committee, but he 
wanted it to go directly to Forrest Smith. I told Mr. Molasky that 
I had nothing in the world to do with collecting money for the State 
committee; that I didn't know Mr. Hendren, chairman of the com- 
mittee, but I had a friend in Festus who I would be glad to take it up 
with, and if he wanted to communicate that information to Forrest 
Smith or to the State committee he could do so. 

He told me at that time that it had been the practice for years in 
St. Louis to have a Jewish man on the police board, and he said he 
would like to have something to do with recommending somebody for 
a place on the police board, the Jewish member. Of course, I told 
him I knew nothing about that. But I went home and talked to Judge 
Edward Eversole about it. Eversole, whom I know, was well ac- 
quainted with John Hendren and was rather active in the State 
campaign. 

I told him what Mr. Molasky had proposed to do, and I said : "I 
would rather, if you think it worth while to take up with the commit- 
tee or Mr. Hendren, that you go around and talk to Mr. Molasky your- 
self about it and let him tell you what he proposes to do, what he 
wants to do." So he did, and Mr. Molaslcy told him that he wanted 
an opportunity to recommend somebody for that place on the police 
board. He recommended — he said he would like to see Morris Shenker 
appointed. I don't remember whether he told me that in our con- 
versation or not. I just don't remember whether he mentioned — I 
don't remember whether he even told me that he wanted to name or 
recommend Morris Shenker. I don't remember that, but he did later, 
and he told Judge Eversole about it. In a few days or weeks or some- 
thing Judge Eversole was in Jefferson City, so 'he told me, and he 
communicated that to Mr. Hendren. He came back and told me that 



106 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hendron told him that Morris Slienker was out ; that he abso- 
lutely could not be considered for a place on the police board because 
of the number of criminal cases he had defended. Mr. Hendren said, 
if he wanted to recommend five men, if Mr. Molasky wanted to recom- 
mend five men, they would consider them, with the understanding 
that they be considered. If he wanted to make his contribution on 
that basis, all right, they would accept it ; but they absolutely wouldn't 
guarantee him anvthing. 

So I told Mr. Molasky that. 

Mr. H ALLEY. When you spoke to Molasky, you did use Shenker's 
name in this conversation? 

Mr. Porter. Yes ; I told him they said they wouldn't consider Mr. 
Shenker. I told him that. I told him that they wanted him to recom- 
mend five men and that they would consider them, but they would 
not promise that they would appoint either of them. So he sent me 
a list of three men. Mr. Shenker was on the list — Morris Shenker 
and, as I remember, Sam Copier. I won't say it was Sam. It was 
Copier. I didn't know then who Sam Copier was. I have since found 
out. 

Mr. H ALLEY. Who was he? 

Mr. Porter. They are hotel people here in St. Louis. They own, 
as I understand it, the Park Plaza Hotel and I think the Coronado 
Hotel and maybe another hotel or two. I don't know, and I think he 
is the father-in-law of JNIorris Shenker. I thiijk he is the Copier 
mentioned. The third man I don't remember. I don't remember his 
name. But I gave the list to Judge Eversole. 

I believe I am a little ahead of my story there. 

After he said he wanted Shenker appointed, he either called me or 
he called Judge Eversole and asked him to come up and see him, and 
to tell Judge Eversole, and Judge Eversole did come up. He had an 
appointment Avith him at his office, and for some reason Mr. Molasky 
wasn't there, and they didn't meet; and Judge Eversole came back 
and he said as far as he was concerned he was going to wash his hands 
of the whole thing, that he knew Shenker was out, that he would not 
have a chance, and so on and so forth. But, after the names went 
in, I knew nothing more about that thing until after the police board 
had been apj^ointed, which was sometime after Forrest Smith was 
elected, and Mr. Molasky told me that they double-crossed him. I 
reminded him that they didn't guarantee him anything; they didn't 
tell him that they would appoint one of those men. He said : "I gave 
Hendren the money, and I am going to demand my money back." 
I said : '"Maybe you can get it back; I don't know." 1 never heard of 
anybody getting any money back that they contributed to a political 
campaign. 

That is substantially my story. That is all I know about it. 

Mr. White. Did Judge Eversole give you an affidavit on that? 

Mr. Porter. Yes, sir; I have that in my pocket [producing docu- 
ment] . 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Chairman, may this be read right into the record? 

The Chairman. This will be made a part of the record at this point, 
the affidavit of Judge Eversole. 

Mr. Halley. Copy it right into the record, please, 
(llie affidavit referred to follows:) 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 107 

Affidavit 
State of Missoi-ri, 

Count 1/ of Jefferson, ss: 

During the primary campai.iiii for nomination of Governor in 1948 in Missouri 
in either late May, June, or early July, Mr. Charles Porter, editor and publislier 
of our leading newspaper of Jefferson County, in tallving to me by plione or 
at his ottice, told me that a friend of liis in St. Louis wanted to make a donation 
to tlie campaign of Forrest Smith, malcing tlie race for the Democratic nomina- 
tion for Governor. (I was at the time fairly active in support of Smith and 
had previously enlisted the aid of ]\Ir. Porter with his newspaper. ) 

Mr. Porter told me that his friend's name was William Molasky, wlio operated 
a magazine-distribution company in St. Loui.s known as the Pierce Distributing 
Co., or some such name, located at about 2600 Locust Street. Molasky, he said, 
wanted to contribute $2,000 to the campaign and wanted to name the Jewish 
member of the St. Louis I'olice Board if Forrest Smitli was elected. Porter 
asked me if I would talk to John Hendron, who was managing Smitli's campaign, 
and see if they were interested in the proposed contributicm. Porter told me 
that Molasky was interested in having his lawyer, Morris Shenker, named to 
the board. 

I told Mr. Porter that I would inquire the next time I was in Jefferson City 
but that I doubted very seriously that John Hendron or Forrest Smitli would 
make any sucli commitment for a contribution. Mr. Porter tlien aslied me if I 
would mind to stop by Molasl^y's office tlie next time I was in St. Louis and talk 
to him, to see that I had things straight and confirm wliat he, Porter, had said. 
I agreed to do so. 

Sometime within tlie following week when I was in St. Louis I called Molasky 
and made an appointment and went by liis office some place along about the 2600 
block of Locust Street and talked to liini. 

Molasky (I had never met him before) told me that he would like to make a 
donation to the Smith campaign and tliat he was interested in naming the Jewish 
member of the St. Louis Police Board. That there had always been a member 
of the Jewish faith named to tlie board. He never at any time mentioned the 
amount lie wanted to contribute. I asked him who he wanted on the board. 
Molasky said his first choice was Morris Slienker. his attorney. (My memory is 
sliglitly hazy here, but it seems there was mention that Morris lived in St. Louis 
County and might not be eligible — I didn't know and neither did he whether 
that made any difference, as he liad an office in St. Louis.) In any event, if 
Morris Shenker could not be named, tlien Sam Koplar, owner of the Chase and 
Park Plaza Hotels, in St. Louis would be second choice, and one otlier man was 
named but I have forgotten tlie name. (Memory slightly hazy but it seems that 
he was possibly connected with one of the large dry-goods companies in St. Louis.) 

I told Molasky I would talk to John Hendron the next time I was in Jeffer- 
son City and probably about a week or 10 days later I did. 

I talked to John Hendron in Jefferson City at headquarters. He was very busy, 
his desk was in a fairly small room with three other desks and people were 
talking at all of them, doors open into the next room and hall, and all filled 
with people talking and making for a general confusion. I had three or four 
things to talk to him about and made them all as brief as possible. So far as 
is concerned here, I told John that a friend of Charley Porter's in St. Louis 
wanted to make a contribution to Smith's campaign. (John was not personally 
acquainted with Porter but knew him as publisher of our paper and a friend 
of mine.) I think I told John that it was a man by the name of Molasky, 
although I would not be positive that I designated the man as anyone other 
than as a friend of Charley Porter. 

John asked me what he was interested in, if he was making a contribution, 
and I told him that he wanted to name tlie Jewish member of the St. Louis Police 
Board if Forrest was elected, and his first choice was Morris Shenker, and, if 
he was not eligible, his second choice would be Sam Koplar or this other man 
whose name I have forgotten. 

John Hendron told me that he was positive that Forrest would not name 
Morris Shenker to the board because Shenker had too much criminal practice 
in St. Louis, and that such a set-up just would not do. John then said that 
he felt sure that Forrest would not make any commitment of any kind that 
would permit any person to name a member of a board or to any job, in the event 
that he, F'orrest, was elected. 
6895S — 51 — pt. 4a 8 



108 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

John then said that the only thing he could tell me would be that if Charley 
Porter's friend wanted to make a contribution to the campaign, and Forrest was 
elected, then, after the election, he could submit a list of names for appointment 
to the board, which names he felt sure Forrest would consider when making such 
appointments — however, he said he wanted me to make it clear that the sug- 
gested persons would be considered and that that did not mean that any one 
of them would actually be appointed to the board. John said that if that was 
not satisfactory to forget the contribution. 

Upon my return home I told Charley Porter just what John Hendron had 
said, and I told him further that I was of the opinion that Molasky was wanting 
something he was not going to get and that we had better just skip the whole 
matter. Charley told me that he would tell Molasky by phone about my luck 
with Hendron but that he would like for me to stop by Molasky's office the next 
time I was in St. Louis and confirm it, so that there could be no misunderstand- 
ing about what Hendron had said. 

Within probably a week, I was in St. Louis and called the News Magazine 
office on Locust Street and made an appointment to come by and tell him what 
Hendron had said about the matter. It was a hot day and I had trouble parking 
my car and was still hotter, and when I walked into the office I told the girl at 
the switchboard who I was and who I wanted to see and she told me Mr. Molasky 
was not in, had not been in that morning and was not expected. I told her I had 
just made an appointment by phone with him, she just grinned and said he was not 
in, so I walked out, not being able to comprehend just what kind of a run-around 
it was. 

When I returned to Festus, I told Mr. Porter what had happened, and I told 
him to count me out of it entirely from there on, that the guy wanted something 
I didn't think he was going to get and there was no use mixing up in it at all. 

So far as I can recall, I never heard anything further about Molasky making a 
contribution or not making one until after the November election and the police 
board had been named in St. Louis, and then when I was talking to Charley 
Porter one day, he mentioned that he had seen Molasky in St. Louis and that 
Molasky had said they double-crossed him on the police board appointments. 
That he had made a contribution and they had not named his man and that he 
was going to get his money back. That is the last I heard until I saw it in the 
newspapers. 

Edwaed T. Eveesole, 
Judge of the Tiventy-flrst Judicial Circuit of Missouri. 

Subscribed and sworn to at my office in Festus, Mo., this 15th day of July 1950. 

[seal] H. E. Vaughn, 

Notary Public. 

My commission expires the 21st day of March 1951. 

The Chairman. Mr. Porter, is that about the only financial trans- 
action you have had of any substance in connection with the Governor's 
campaign ? 

Mr. Porter. Yes, sir ; absolutely. 

The CHA.IRMAN. How large is Festus, Mo. ? 

Mr. Porter. Festus is five thousand and one hundred-and-some- 
thing now since the last census. We are a sister city of Crystal City, 
and they have a population of forty-some-odd thousand. 

The Chairman. Do you have any other information you think would 
be of help to our committee? 

Mr. Porter. I don't have, Senator. That is all I know about this 
thing. That is all I know about it. 

The Chairman. Has anybody else been in touch with you to try to 
get you to use your influence in behalf of any particular cause? 

Mr. Porter. No, absolutely not. 

The Chairman. I believe that is all, ]\Ir. Porter. * 

Mr. H alley. There is just one thing I have thought of somewhat 
lately. 

I liave been sitting here wondering why Mr. Molasky picked you to 
be his emissary. 



I 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 109 

Mr. Porter. Of course this is an opinion. I used to be pretty active 
in Democratic politics. I was cliairman of the committee of that 
county for a good many years. 

Mr. Halley. What county is that? 

Mr. Porter. Jefferson County. But I never had any relationship 
with the State committee. I usually knew some of the members, but 
I do not know^ John Hendren. I have never seen him. 

Mr. Halley. Why did you pick Judge Eversole as the man to go to? 

Mr. Porter. Judge Eversole was closer in touch, I think, I con- 
sidered him so, with the State committee than anybody that I was 
pretty close to down in the county. 

The Chairman. Anything else? 

Mr. White. No. 

Mr. Halley. No. 

The Chairman. I believe that is all, Mr. Porter. 

Mr. Porter. All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. 

Mr. White. We have Mr. Earl Prawl next. 

The Chairman. Mr. Prawl, will you hold up your hand. Do you 
solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this committee is the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Prawl. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EARL W. PRAWL, CLAYTON, MO., ACCOMPANIED 
BY MORRIS SHENKER, ATTORNEY, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

Mr. Halley. "Wliat is your full name ? 

Mr. PRA^\T.. Earl W. Prawl. 

Mr. Halley. What is your address? 

Mr. Prawl. 7550 Byron Place, Clayton, Mo. 

Mr. Halley. Is that the suburb of St. Louis ? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. In what business are you? 

Mr. Prawl. I work for John Mooney. 

Mr. Halley. In what business is John Mooney ? 

Mr. Prawl. He is in the bookmaking business. 

Mr. Halley. Are you a partner of his? 

Mr. Prawl. No. 

Mr. Halley. Just an employee? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What is your job there? 

Mr. Prawl. I am commonly known as the board man. 

Mr. Halley. What does that mean? 

Mr. Prawl. That means that of a morning I have to use chalk and 
put all the entries of all racing information on a blackboard. On the 
board I mark the scratches and prices. In other words, if you can 
visualize a stock-market board, I run up and down there and later on 
during the day to keep that up. 

Mr. Halley. Where do you get those prices and scratches? 

Mr. Prawl. It came over a ticker. 

Mr. Halley. Western Union ticker ? 

Mr. Prawl. It must be a Western Union ticker. 

Mr. Halley. Why do you say it came? From where does it come 
now? 

Mr. Prawl. The tape comes out. 



110 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Does it still come that way ? 

Mr. Prawl. No. 

Mr. Halley. How does it come now ? How do you get the informa- 
tion now? 

Mr. Prawx. We don't get any. The only way we can go by is either 
get the papers now or call other places where they could get it. 

Mr. Halley. What happened to your ticker service ? 

Mr. Prawl. It was shut off as far as I know. It stopped in the- 
middle of the day. 

Mr. Halley. What day? 

Mr. Prawl. I would say — let's see — about last Wednesday some- 
time, along about that time. 

Mr. Halley. Your Western Union service was just cut off. 

Mr. Prawl, Right in the middle of the day ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Since then have you been operating or did you shut 
the place down ? 

JNIr. Prawl. Since Wednesday? No, we closed the day that Mr^ 
White was there. It was that day. 

Mv. Halley. It was a Friday, was it not ? 

Mr. Prawl. On a Friday. 

Mr. Halley. And you haven't opened since ? 

Mr. Prawl. No. 

Mv. Halley. When the ticker tape was there, from what source did 
you get your — pardon me, Mr. Shenker, I note you have just entered 
the room. I presume you are here as counsel for Mr. Prawl ? 

]Mr. Morris Shenker. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. From whom did you get your ticker tape service ? 

Mr. Prawl. Years ago it was always known as Pioneer News, and 
sometimes they change their name to Continental. It may still be 
Pioneer. I never keep up with those people. I don't try to. 

Mr. Halley. Over in St. Louis ? 

Mr. Praavl. Pioneer News, I think, is St. Louis headquarters. 

Mr. Halley. So the ticker comes from St. Louis across the river by 
wire to you in East St. Louis, 111. ; is that right? 

Mr. Prawl. That seems to be the way they operated. 

The Chairman. I thought you said you were from Clayton. 

Mr. Pra'\\x. This particular address. Your Honor, is referring to- 
East St. Louis. I was employed there. 

Mr. Halley. Perhaps the record doesn't clearly show that the book- 
making establishment owned by John Mooney is at 318 Missouri Ave- 
nue, East St. Louis, 111. Is that right? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. ^Vllo handles the transactions with Pioneer? WhO' 
pays the weekly service charge ? 

^Ir. Prawl. I would say Jon Pocock. 

^Nlr. Halley. What is his position in your bookmaking business? 

Mr. Prawl. We would refer to him, if there were titles, we don't 
have titles, but in that office you might call him cashier. That would 
probably be the most appropriate name for him, cashier. 

Mr. Halley. Do you and Pocock have an interest in the business or 
are you both on salary? 

yir. Prawl. He is on a salary, too. 

Mr. Halley. You are both on salary ? 

Mr. Prawl. Certainly. 



■ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 111 

Mr. Halley. What is your salary ? 

Mr. Prawl. I have a $7 a day drawing account, with a possible 
Itonus at the end of the month. 

Mr. Halley. Did you earn a bonus, let us say, in the month of May, 
last May ? Take June, the last month. 

Mr. Prawl. Last month, no ; it wasn't considered a bonus. 

Mr. Halley. Did you earn more than $7 a day last month ? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes. I did. I was given $200, but then my tax was 
all taken out of that, and I got what was left. 

Mr. Halley. Now Pocock also is on a salary ? 

Mr. Prawl. Oh, yes. 

INIr. Halley. How does he pay Pioneer? Do they come over and 
collect every Aveek? 

Mr. Prawl. No; they send a check, I imagine. I never did see 
anybody collect anything. 

Mr. JBalley. Pocock sends a check, you think, to pay for it to 
Pioneer? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

The Chairman. Do you know that ? 

Mr. Prvwl. No ; I don't know that for sure. I couldn't say because 
I go home early as soon as the last race is run and I am not there to 
check up or anything like that. 

Mr. Halley. Do policemen or deputy sheriffs ever come into your 
premises ? 

Mr. Prawl. No. 

Mr. Halley. Have you any information on how you are able to 
operate without being closed down by the local authorities ? 

Mr. Prawl. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Halley. The operation, you know, is against the law in the 
State of Illinois ? 

INIr. Prawl, I imagine it would be. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have any information on the subject of why 
the authorities don't enforce the law ? 

]\Ir. Pr.\wl. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Halley. So far as you know, is John Mooney the only owner 
of the establishment ? 

JMr. Prawl. There could be a connection between Mr. Carroll and 
him, some sort of agreement of some sort. 

Mr. Halley. Which Carroll? 

Mr. Prawl. James J. Carroll. 

Mr. Halley. What kind of agreement could that be? 

Mr. Prawl, I mean as far as him helping him and advising him 
as to prices and things like that. 

Mr. Halley. Be more specific. So far as you know, is Carroll a 
part owner ? 

Mr, Prawl, That I could not say, 

Mr. Halley. Does Carroll appear on the premises ? 

Mr, Prawl. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Halley. How often ? 

Mr. Prawl. I would say at times he will come daily, and then other 
times he might not appear for maybe 2 or 3 months. 

Mr. Halley. When he is there does he give instructions to various 
employees ? 

Mr. Prawl. No. 



112 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Will you note that the Senator left the room and that 
we suspended immediately on his leaving? We will resmne when the 
Senator returns. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Halley. Back on the record. You were served with a subpena 
to produce all of the books and records pertaining to the bookmaking 
establishment at 318 Missouri Avenue, East St. Louis, 111. Will you 
state whether you have brought with you any information or records ? 

Mr. Prawl. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state why not ? 

Mr. Prawl. Well, because I know of no records. I never kept any 
records. I didn't know what there would be in records of any type. 

Mr. Halley. You were handed the subpena last Friday, is that 
right? 

Mr. Prawl. Friday evening ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you then at 318 Missouri Avenue? 

Mr. Prawl. I was there ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You read it when it was given to you ? 

Mr. Prawl. I read it over with Mr. White and talked to him 
about it. 

Mr. Halley. In fact, you showed it to some of the employees ? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you go and look through any records on the 
premises there at that time ? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes, sir ; I looked around and everybody said they tore 
everything up and threw it away because they thought it was some 
other type of raid or something. 

Mr. Halley. Wlien did they throw it away? Mr. White did not 
raid. He walked in the door and handed you a subpena. They did 
not have time to tear up a lot of books. 

Mr. Prawl. There was some delay, wasn't there, Mr. White? 

Mr. White, ^'es ; it took us some time to get in. 

Mr. Prawl. In fact, I opened the last door for Mr. White myself 
because — not that I had any authority to, but I thought it was un- 
called for. 

Mr. Halley. Before Mr. Wliite started attempting to serve the 
subpena, there were books and records on the premises beyond any 
doubt. 

Mr. Prawl. Well, if there were, truthfully I don't handle those 
things. 

Mr. Halley. The bookkeeper handles them. You so testified. 

Mr. Prawl. A bookkeeper ? You mean the cashier ? 

Mr. Halley. I believe you called him the cashier. 

Mr. Prawl. The cashier, yes, has some type of work that he has 
to do to check his business, I am sure. 

Mr. Halley. You were operating that day, isn't that right, Mr. 
Prawl ? Bets were coming in and going out. You could not function 
without keeping some records. 

Mr. Prawl. Wliat I meant was that the day's business and that ore 
ning I just went on home as I usually do and I never thought that 
the place would close up and everything and the bottom would fall 
out like that. 

Mr. Halley. The subpena was served before the end of business and 
therefore there must have been some records there at that time and 
on that day. Is that not a fact? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 113 

Mr. Prawl. I couldn't truthfully say, because- 



Mr. Hallet. How could there not have been any records, Mr. 
Prawl? 

Mr. Prawl. I mean they thought there was a raid, as I under- 
stand, and they were running around pitching everything around. 

Mr. Halley. Is there a river or a lake right outside the window ? 

Mr. Prawl. No ; no river or lake. 

Mr. Halley, Were the records burned ? 

Mr. Prawl. I couldn't say. 

Mr. Halley. Could you smell smoke ? 

Mr. Prawl. No ; I didn't smell smoke. 

Mr. Halley. The records couldn't have evaporated into thin air, 
Mr. Prawl. Pitching them around doesn't make them disappear. 
Technically you are in contempt of this committee. Would you like 
to make an effort to try to find those records and produce them? 

Mr. Prawl. I can make an effort. 

Mr. Halley. If it is going to be a half-hearted effort, it is not worth 
bothering with. 

Mr. Prawl. No ; I say I can try to make an effort. 

Mr. Halley. I want you to understand you have been served with 
a subpena by the United States Senate. You are here. You are repre- 
sented by counsel. You stated that either just before or just after Mr. 
White entered to serve the subpena, the records were tossed around 
but you haven't given any satisfactory explanation of what happened 
to the records. Yeu accepted the subpena. You discussed the subpena 
with other employees. Then you left. You have not produced the 
records, and therefore you are in contempt of this committee. It is 
possible that in such a case, if you produce the records, you will have 
wiped out the contempt, but that is the only way I know by w^hich you 
can do it. Do you think you can produce the records or shall this 
record today just stand that you are in contempt? 

Mr. Prawl. Morris 

Mr. Shenker. I don't know; did you have those records in your 
possession at the time Mr. Wliite served the subpena on you? 

The Chairman. Let me ask what records did you keep when you 
were there. 

Mr. Prawl. I don't keep a thing. All day I actually write with 
chalk, wet chalk. I print on a blackboard. 

The Chairman. You must write from something. What do you 
write from? Wlio tells you what to write? Do you get it off a ticker 
tape? 

Mr. Prawl. Ticker tape; yes, sir. I don't even answer phones, I 
don't write bets. I don't do a thing like that in that department. 

The Chairman. Are there some records that you can get for the 
enlightenment of the committee out there ? Do you have some in your 
possession ? 

Mr, Prawl. Never did I have anything like that. As I say, the 
minute the last result or anything comes in I go home and those people 
are there at least a half hour to an hour after I go home. 

The Chairman. It looks this way : You say by this subpena that we 
read to you that we wanted some records of this establishment. I don't 
think you have made much effort to get any records that were there 
that you could get. You seem just to have neglected to do anything 



114 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

in response to the request of the subpena. I should think yon would 
go see what records you could find, and it would help the situation 
considerably. 

Mr. SiiENKER. You ai'e perfectly willing to get any records that 
you can get for the committee ? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

Mr. Shenker. Do you know whether you can get them or not? 

Mr. Prawl. No ; I don't know. 

Mr. Shenker. But you will make an attempt in an effort to get 
them for the conunittee ? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes. 

The Chairman. And then rej^ort back to the committee. 

]Mr. Halley. Mr. Prawl, Mr. White tells me that when he did enter 
the premises to serve the subpena, you acted as spokesman, and it was 
jou who assumed to talk to him and to handle the situation with him. 
Is that correct. 

Mr. Prawl. Oidy when he directly asked a question, and I definitely 
wanted to be more or less polite to Mr, White because nobody else 
would say a word. 

Mr. Halley. Were you the only one who would undertake to dis- 
cuss the matter at all with Mr. White ? 

Mr. Prawl. I tried to be very polite to Mr. White and assisting 
him and helping him. That was the only way that that came about. 
Nobody else would even say a word. 

Mr. Halley. When he handed you the subpena, did you say any- 
thing to him about your not being the one who kept the records? 

Mr. Pr^vwl. I did. I told Mr. White while we were sitting right 
there — I said, "Do you see this blackboard right here?" I said, "That 
is all my work right there." 

Mr. Halley. Did you tell him you didn't know that there were any 
records ? 

Mr. Praavl. I told him then I don't know how to get any kind of 
records. 

Mr. Halley. Did you tell him there was a cashier in the other room 
wdio had the records? 

Mr. Prawl. I did not. He didn't ask me that. 

Mr. White. Did I ask you who was in the next door, marked "Pri- 
vate.'' entering from the hall into the bookkeeping room? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes ; you did. 

jNlr. White. What did 3^011 tell me? 

Mr. Prawl. I told you it was Dick Doyle's real-estate and law 
office. 

Mr. White. What was inside that room, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Praw^l. Nothing that T know of. There is nothing there that 
pertains to betting or anything like that. 

Mr. White. Did you heai- me announce to all persons present, 
including yourself, that the subpena did call for the production of all 
records and that whoever was in charge was called upon to produce or 
to answer the subpena, and that I suggested that Mr. Mooney be noti- 
fied of the service of the subpena and that the committee would 
demand the records from vou in lieu of any other person bringing 
them ? 

Mr. Prawl. I did hear you talking to — you moved over in on the 
part of the room, and I didn't pay any particular attention to it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 115 

Mr. White. Didn't I make a public announcement to that effect? 

Mr. Prawl. Yes ; j^ou did. Yon made some sort of public announce- 
ment. I thought what yon were doing was to have witnesses that you 
served this on me. That was my impression of it. I don't know. I 
am not familiar with those things. 

Mr. Halley. It seems to me that since in any event the committee 
obviously can and will get these records and since you are technically 
in contempt of this committee, the best procedure would be for you to 
purge yourself of that contempt just as soon as you can and go out 
and get the records and be back here before 6 o'clock this afternoon. 

The Chairman. The witness is instructed to that effect. Will you 
see what you can do and come back here. 

Mr. Prawl. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. I will avSk one question before you leave. How do 
you get along with the telephone service when you don't have the 
ticker tape? 

Mr. Prawl. How do we — you mean 

The Chairman. Can you operate your bookie establishment as well 
by telephone as you can with the ticker tape? 

Mr. Prawl. You can, sir, but it is not — it is just not as handy, that 
is all. 

The Chairman. Who do you call to get information on the 
telephone ? 

Mr. Prawl. Pioneer News. 

The Chairman. How many telephones do you have to do that? 

Mr. Prawl. You mean that we need to handle it? 

The Chairman. I mean how many telephones do you have that yon 
call back and forth over. 

Mr. Prawl. Just one that we call in ; that is all. 

The Chairman. You sa}^ you are also using the newspapers? 

Mr. Prawl. For late California results and results like that, they 
refer to the Racing Form, newspapers, and so on. Yon see, in this dis- 
trict racing is just beginning in some places when I go home. 

Mr. White. Are you getting an open-line service from Reliable at 
the moment in Fairmont City ? 

Mr. Prawl. Reliable? You mean a direct phone or something? 

Mr. AVhite. What is known as an open line. You know what I 
mean by an open line ; don't you ? 

Mr. Prawl. Well, now, I am not sure, Mr. White. 

Mr. White. Where you would call, say. Pioneer or any other person 
and both parties would leave their receivers off the hook and the line 
would remain open until either one or both of the parties hung up. 

Mr. Prawl. Oh. 

Mr. Whiit:. Then you pipe that line into a loudspeaker. Is that 
what you are doing there now ? 

Mr. Praavl. We have been doing that for 1 day, and I think — 
I don't believe it was connected there, I think it was connected to 
St. Louis. 

Mr. White. You did have a loudspeaker working in the place, 
didn't you, the day I was there ? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. That is the way we tried to hook it up 
to avoid being without Western Union 

Mr. Whiits. You just called Pioneer and kept your receivers off 
the hook and piped your end of the telephone into a loudspeaker and 
kept it on there from about 11 in the morning until 5 in the afternoon. 



116 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Prawl. There is an intermittance, of course, but that is gener- 
ally the procedure. 

The Chairmx\n. There is one other question I want to ask you, Mr. 
Prawl. You have a good attorney here, Mr. Shenker. How long 
have you been knowing Mr. Shenker ? 

Mr. Prawl. Mr. Shenker, I guess I have known him — it was Satur- 
day, the first time I met him. 

The Chairman. What I want to know is. Does he represent the 
establishment or does he represent you or how did you get in touch 
with him ? 

Mr. Prawl. The office manager of the place told me to go to Mr. 
Shenker. 

The Chairman. Is the office manager or the place paying him or 
are you paying him? 

Mr. Prawl. As far as I know, I will have to pay him. 

The Chairman. You have not come to that point yet ? 

Mr. Prawl. My job is ended, and I am out of work. He said, 
"You had better go see Shenker." That was my procedure. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Prawl, we will look for a report 
from you later this afternoon. I think j'^ou can have some records 
if you make an effort to get them. I think in view of the circum- 
stances you ought to do that. 

Mr. Shenker, do you have anything? 

Mr. Shenker. I would like to ask Mr. Prawl just a few questions, 
if I may. Senator. 

AVlien Mr. White came to the door, you say it took some time before 
he got in? 

Mr. Prawl. It did. 

Mr. Shenker. Would you indicate to the committee about how 
long it took from the time he came to the door until he entered? 

Mr. Prawl. I would say roughly 20 minutes or 25 minutes. It 
would be hard to say, at least that. 

Mr. Shenker. Between 20 and 25 minutes approximately ? 

Mr. Praw^l. Approximately. I am sort of guessing. 

Mr. Shenker. During that time that they were trying to get in, 
did you know or did anyone in the establishment appear to know that 
this was a representative of the Senate Investigating Committee? 

Mr. Prawl. We did not. 

]Mr. Shenker. What was the impression as to those people and 
your impression as to who was trying to get in ? 

Mr. Prawl. They thought it was the State police. 

Mr. Shenker. The State police were trying to come in. During 
that time you say that there was some turmoil in the office and things 
were being torn up ? 

JNIr. Prawl. That is right. 

Mr. Shenker. Did it appear to you that many things were de- 
stroyed and torn up ? 

Mr. Praavl. It looked like it very much to me. 

Mr. Shenker. Since the time that the subpena was served on you 
did you have in your possession any records pertaining to the estab- 
lishment at 318 Missouri Avenue? 

Mr. Prawl. Never did I have any. 

Mr. Shenker. Before or after, is that correct? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 117 

Mr. Shenker. Did yon see any records at the time Mr. White was 
there or after he left pertaining to the operation of that business ? 

Mr. Prawl. There might have been a few tickets lying on a desk. 

Mr. Shenker. But no records ? 

Mr. Prawl. No records. 

Mr. Shenker. You will attempt to telephone or contact the people 
that you think might be in position to advise you whether there are 
any records available and get them for the committee if you can? 

Mr. Pra"\\t,. I certainly will. 

Mr. Shenker. You are at all times willing to comply with the 
request of this committee ? 

Mr. Praw^l. Absolutely. 

Mr. Shenker. Pertaining to contacting me, did you know me by 
my good or bad reputation in this community ? I mean did you know 
of me ? 

Mr. PRA^\a.. I have heard of you. 

Mr. Shenker. That is what I say, you had heard of me before? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

Mr. Shenker. That is all. 

Mr. Halley. Who is paying your fee in this case, Mr. Shenker? 

Mr. Shenker. I have made no fees pertaining to this with anyone. 

Mr. Halley. You have made no arrangement with anyone what- 
soever? 

Mr. Shenker. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Including Mr. Prawl? 

Mr. Shenker. That is correct. However, I assume I am going to 
get paid, but I have not discussed my employment with anyone besides 
Mr. Prawl. 

The Chairman. Mr. Prawl, is this a place so that anyone can come 
in who wants to come in ? 

Mr. Prawl. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You have to know the secret password ? 

Mr. Prawl. There has never been anyone allowed in that office. 

The Chairman. Do you not have customers who come in and look at 
the board ? 

Mr. Prawl. No. 

The Chairman. Just the employees ? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Shenker. I think we might clear up one point, Senator, if I 
may take a second. This is not a place where people come in and 
make bets ? 

Mr. Prawl. No, no. That is not a betting room of any type at all. 
It has always been closed, just like Mr. White found it. 

Mr. Shenker. Just an office operation ? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

Mr. Shenker. When you say there has never been anyone in there, 
you don't mean there never has been anyone in there, do you? 

Mr. Prawl. There might have been some one or two men drop in 
now and then and go out. 

Mr. Shenker. But it would be an unusual thing? 

Mr. Prawl. That is right. 

The Chairman. Then how do people who take the bets from the 
man on the street get a message to you, by telephone? 



118 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Prawl. By telephone and wire. 

The Chairman. Do they not come around and tell you they have 
these bets and want to place them with you, or do they call them in ? 

Mr. Prawl, Everything is called. 

The Chairman. How many telephones did you have in the place ? 

Mr. Prawl. We had a number, a Ridge number, and it had about 
four trunks to ring in on one. You know what I mean. If this one is 
busy, it will jump to the other one, I would say there were four, or 
three others, possibly. 

The Chairman. Is this one of the big bookies in East St, Louis ? 

Mr. Whito. In the Middle West. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Prawl, you paid off your bets that were made on 
Friday; did you not? 

Mr.* Prawl. That I don't know, 

Mr. Halley. The company does. It didn't welch on its bets on 
Friday; did it? 

Mr. Prawl. Well, I don't know, 

Mr. Halley. It has to have some records of the bets that were made 
even just on Friday. 

Mr. Prawl. It was never my business to pay or collect or anything, 

Mr. Halley. I am just suggesting to you that after the subpena was 
served on you and you assumed to act as the person in charge of the 
premises in the absence of Mr. Mooney and Mr, Carroll, it was in- 
cumbent upon you, having accepted the subpena and the responsibility 
that goes with it, to look around those premises for some records, and 
I want you to bear that in mind when you go out this afternoon to 
look for some more. 

Mr, Prawl, O, K„ sir, 

Mr. Shenker. Is that all ? 

The Chairman. Yes ; thank you, , 

(Witness excused,) 

The Chair:man, You are Miss Forrestal? 

Miss Forrestal, Yes ; I am. 

The Chairman. Will you hold up your hand? Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you give this committee will be the whole 
truth and nothing but tlie truth, so help you God? 

Miss Forrestal. I do, 

TESTIMONY OF MISS MARY FORRESTAL, CLAYTON, MO., ACCOM- 
PANIED BY MORRIS A. SHENKER, ATTORNEY, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

The Chairman. Have a seat. Miss Forrestal, and talk loudly, I 
cannot hear very well and the reporter would like to hear this. Let 
the record show that Mr. Shenker is appearing with Miss ForrestaL 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. All right, let's get on with this. 

Mr. Halley. Now, Miss Forrestal, what is your address? 

Miss Forrestal. 75r)9 Buckingham Drive, in Clayton. 

Mr. Halley. Is that in Missouri? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat is your occupation ? 

Miss Forrestal. Secretary. 

Ml-. Halley. To whom ? 

Miss Forrestal. Mr. John Mooney, 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 119 

Mr. Halley, Where do you work for Mr. Mooney; where is your 
olHce ? 

Miss FoRRESTAii. Ill East St. Louis; 318i^ Missouri Avenue. 

The Chairman. You are going to have to speak louder, Miss For- 
restal. 

Mr. Halley. You mean you work rigiit at the premises 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Halley. Of this bookmaking establishment? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. The establishment of Mr. Mooney. Do you work for 
anyone else besides Mr. Mooney? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I do work for other people in the office, other 
clerks. 

Mr, Halley. Who do 3^011 work for ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Mr. John Mooney is the man — I am his secretary. 

Mr. Halley. Who else do you work for? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I doii't follow that. 

Mr. Halley. From whom else do you take instructions? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Principally Mr. Mooney, but if anyone wants me 
to write a letter for them 

Mr. Halley, Name a few names. Do you take orders from Mr. 
Carroll, for instance? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Ycs, I liave issued press releases and things like 
that for Mr, Carroll at Kentucky Derby time and any special event. 

Mr, Halley, Does he come into the office? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Ycs, he does. 

Mr. Halley. How often does he come to the office ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL, I Can't say how often. He was in Florida a great 
deal of this winter, 

Mr, Halley, There already has been testimony that he sometimes 
comes in many times a week. 

Miss FoRRESTAL, That is true, 

Mr, Halley. And sometimes he doesn't come in. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. That is true. Oftentimes he goes to California. 

Mr, Halley, We will get along much better if you just give us the 
facts and not worry about it. 

Who owns that bookmaking establishment? 

iVIiss FoRRESTAL, Mr. John Mooney is the owner. 

Mr. Halley. What interest does Mr, Carroll have in it? 

Miss FoRRESTAL, He is an odds maker and as far as I know I think 
he has a financial interest in it, but that never has been discussed 
with me. 

Mr, Halley, He does come there and give instructions to various 
people ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL, Well, yes; I suppose he does. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you worked there? 

Miss FoRRESTAL, Two years. 

Mr, Halley. Wliere did you work before that ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Lcppert-Ross Fur Co, 

Mr, Halley. In the establishment are books kept ; books of account ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. They have records: yes. I don't know if you 
mean — what kind of books do you mean? 

Mr. Halley. Financial books. 



120 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Well, yes, I think they keep some sort of records 
and then I don't know, they get rid of them some way or another. 

]Mr. Halley. You have summary books, don't you, so you can pay 
your income tax at the end of the year ? 

JNIiss FoRRESTAL. I wouldu't know about that, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever seen a ledger in the place ? You know 
what a ledger looks like? 

Miss Forresial. You mean a daily piece of paper, but not any large 
book, I haven't. 

Mr. Halley. You haven't seen a large book in the premises ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. No, I liaveu't. 

Mr. Halley. Is there a bookkeeper or a cashier? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Who is that? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Mr. John Popock. 

Mr. Halley. Where does he work ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. In our office. 

Mr. Halley. In what part of the premises ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. The same building. 

Mr. Halley. What room ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. The same room. 

Mr. Halley. The same room as you ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. He keeps whatever books are kept right in the same 
room ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. How large a room is that? 

Miss FoRRESTALL. From about there to there and to that door. 

Mr. Halley. Indicating about 20 feet square perhaps. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I am not a good judge of such things. 

Mr. Halley. But a good-sized room. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. YcS. 

Mr. Halley. How many people work in it? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. You Want exactly ? I don't know, I think 19 or 20. 

Mr. Halley. How close to your desk is Mr. Popock's ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. From here to where perhaps that gentleman over 
there is. 

:Mr. Halley. About 10 feet. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Ycs. 

]\Ir. Halley. You are there every day? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What does he do? Does he keep records? Is that his 
work? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. He records bets, for instance? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. You mean 

Mr. Halley. Bets that are taken in and paid out. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. YcS. 

Mr. Halley. You say they are destroyed at the end of each day? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. No, I dou't say they are destroyed at the end of 
each day. They keep them daily and what they do with them I don't 
know, but they don't accumulate in the office. 

Mr. Halley. They are taken to some other place? 

Miss Forrestal. t suppose so. I really don't know. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 121 

Mr. Halley. They are not kept there ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes, that is right. 

Mr. Halley. Then if there are any books, you haven't seen them, 
any books of account? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Large books of account I have never seen. 

Mr. Halley. How about a check book ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

]Mr. Halley. Wlio keeps that? 

Miss Forrestal. The man's name is Mr. Landsettel and he signs 
the checks. 

Mr. Halley. Does he work in the same place ? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. In the same room ? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What bank? 

Miss Forrestal. First National of East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. The First National Bank of East St. Louis. 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Were you there on the clay that Mr. White came in 
with the subpena? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Were you in the big room when he came in and made 
his little speech? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. About wanting to serve the subpena on whoever was 
in charge? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. At that time who was in charge? 

Miss Forrestal. You see, the manager was hurt in an accident 
about 2 months ago or 3 months ago, and I don't know that anyone 
was officially appointed in Mr. McBurney's place as far as I know. 

Mr. Halley. Was this man the cashier there that day? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes, as I remember. 

Mr. Halley. Was he in that other room where you work? 

Miss Forrestal. I was very confused. I really can't say if he was. 

Mr. Halley. He was on the job that day? 

Miss Forrestal. Oh, yes. If he was standing right there when 
this gentleman came in I can't say. 

Mr. Halley. A little time elapsed between when Mr. White started 
trying to get in and the time when he got in ? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. At that time were any records destroyed ? 

Miss Forrestal. Not that I knoM' of. At least I didn't destroy any 
records during that time. 

Mr. Halley. Did you see any destroyed? 

Miss Forrestal. No. 

Mr. Halley. After Mr. White left did you see any records destroyed ? 

Miss Forrestal. No. Well, I know what I took care of, my own 
things. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state what you did ? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes ; I take care of Mr. Mooney's personal check- 
ing account and then I have a checking account, it is really Mr. 
Mooney's money but I pay his bills while he is out of town. Well, I 
think that is about all. 



122 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. What did you do after Mr. White left ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I weiit home. 

]\Ir. H ALLEY. You didn't destroy any records? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Oh, no ; I don't have anything to destroy. 

Mv. Halley. No other questions. 

The Chairman. Is there anything you want to ask her? 

JVIr. White. No. 

The Chairman. How long did you say you had been working there ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Two years. 

The Chairman. Can you give us some idea of the size of the busi-* 
ness, that is, how much is bet per day? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. No, sir. You mean every day, the take, the amount 
of the take? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I think it differs all the time. 

The Chairman. W^hat is the average amount? 

Miss Forrestal. I couldn't tell you that. I could not answer that 
truthfully. 

The Chairman. Would $100,000 be about right? 

Miss FoRRESTxVL. Oh, heaven's no, that is ridiculous. 

The Chairman, Is that large? 

Miss FoRRESTAL, Very large. 

The Chairman. Over how large a territory do you do business? 
Do vou get calls from bookies in St. Louis over here as well as in East 
St. Louis ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I suppose. You see, I don't answer any phones. 
When somebody is on the phone I don't know where they are calling 
from or anything like that. I suppose it is nation-wide as far as I 
know. 

The Chairman, You mean you think you get calls from all parts of 
the country ? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

The Chairman. Is that Mr. Carroll's chief operating place, the chief 
place where he does business ? 

JSIiss Forrestal. It is the only one I know of. 

The Chairman. Are you employed by Mr. Mooney or Mr. Carroll ? 

Miss Forrestal. Mr. Mooney, Mr. John Mooney. 

The Chairman, Does Mr, Mooney work for Mr. Carroll ? 

Miss Forrestal, I don't know that he works for him, no. He owns 
the ])lace. Mr. Mooney owns the place. 

The Chairman. Where is Mr. Carroll's office ? 

Miss Forrestal. Well, I don't say it is his office. He comes there. 
He doesn't have a desk, and that is his desk or anything like that. He 
comes in there. 

The Chairman, Do you take dictation from Mr. Carroll? 

Miss Forrestal. I have done such things as order shoes for him, 
one time I remember, and I have taken a few letters from Mr, Carroll, 
yes. 

The Chairman. Does Mr. Carroll give people instructions about 
what to do in this place? 

Miss Forrestal. Mr. Mooney really is the one that is in charge, but 
I shoukl imagine that Mr. Carroll would be able to say, yes. 

Tlie Chairman, Do you call and get Dun & Bradstreet reports on 
A^arious bettors? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 123 

Tl^e Chairman. Where do you get Dun & Bradstreet reports ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. From Dun & Bradstreet. 

The Chairman. From East St. Louis ? 

Miss Forrestal. No, St. Louis. 

The Chairman. Wliat do you do that for ? 

Miss P'oRRESTAL. Because I am told to. 

The Chairman. Do they not always i^ut up money when they bet 
or do they bet on credit ? 

Miss Forrestal. You can bet on credit. I think some prefer to 
settle by the week or something like that, some arrangements like that. 

The Chairman. So you do have a credit arrangement with people 
who want to bet on credit if they are entitled to credit. 

Miss Forrestal. Yes. 

The Chairman, Do you go around and make collections from people 
who owe the establishment something? 

Miss Forrestal. I wouldn't know about any kind of cash transac- 
tions, but I know they mail in checks, as far as I know. 

The Chairman. I know, but do you go around to people's houses or 
business concerns? 

Miss Forrestal. You mean personally do I? 

The Chairman. Such as Mike Grady. 

Miss Forrestal. You mean do I do it? 

The Chairman. Yes. Who are the chief inspectors for this estab- 
lishment ? 

Miss Forrestal. Lispectors? 

The Chairman. I mean collectors. 

Miss Forrestal. Collectors. I did not know we had collectors, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you have people who go out and see the people 
who owe money and get the money and bring it in ? 

Miss Forrestal. No. If they have I never heard of it. 

The Chairman. How much salary are you paid ? 

Miss Forrestal. $400 a month. 

The Chairman. You have been paid that all along? 

Miss Forrestal. I believe when I started there it was a little bit 
less, and I got one raise since I have been there. I can't tell you exactly 
how much. 

The Chairman. Do you get a percentage of the winnings or what 
not in addition to your salary? 

Miss Forrestal. I have never asked how they figured out or arrived 
at my salary. However, I get paid $42 a week and at the end of the 
month I get about $200. 

The Chairman. Is it different for each month? Some months it 
is $200 and 

Miss Forrestal. I have gotten more. 

The Chairman. So it must be on some kind of basis. 

Miss Forrestal. It does average around $400 a month. 

The Chairman. They must have it figured on some percentage 
basis. 

Miss Forrestal. They have never told me. I really don't know 
exactly how that is worked out. 

The Chairman. I think that is all. 

Mr. White. How long have you known Mr. Carroll ? 

68958 — 51— pt. 4a 9 



124 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Miss F(iRRESTAL,. Siiice the day that I went over there to apply for 
a job. He was in the office at the time. That was May of li)4S. 

Mr. White. You didn't know him at all before that time? 

Miss P\)RRESTAL. No, I didn't, althoiio;h I had noticed his name in 
the sports pages of the papers. 

Mr. White. Was any member of your family closely connected with 
or a friend of Mr. Carroll ? 

Miss FORRESTAL. No. 

Mr. White. Did you discuss my service of your subpena with your 
mother ? 

Miss Forrestal. Yes; I did. 

Mr. White. Did she relate to you any of the conversation I had with 
her? 

Miss Forrestal. I believe she said that you served the subpena to 
me, and she said I wasn't home, and you said, "I will give it to you." 
I believe that is the way it went. I can't remember. 
Mr. White. That is your mother who was living there? 
Miss Forrestal. Yes, it is; but she hasn't been too well, so if she 

forgot to tell me something I really don't know 

Mr. White. If your mother told me that she had been the friend 
of CarroUs for 30 years, would that amaze you ? 

Miss Forrestal. No, not at all, because my mother told me she 
went out wnth a James Carroll when she was a young girl. However, 
I don't believe it is the same Mr. Carroll, because I mentioned it to 
him one time and he said that was another Jimmie Carroll who lived 
in East St. Louis. I believe I have mentioned it to my mother that it 
is a different one. However, she i^robably thought it was. 

Mr. White. She told me when I served the subpena that you were 
working for Jimmie Carroll, the bookmaker, and she had known him 
for ?)0 years. 

Miss Forrestal. No; she doesn't know this"one. I don't believe she 
has known Mr. Carroll for 30 years. 

Mr. White. So it wasn't jimmie Carroll who got you your employ- 
ment with ISIv. Mooney ? 

Miss FoijRESTAL. No ; it wasn\. No, actually, I did not know Mr. 
Carroll before I went to work there and I am sure my mother is con- 
fused and it is not the same James Carroll that she knew before she 
was married. I am very sure of that. But, as I say, my niother has 
been ill and she was confused and I suppose maybe she did tell you 
that thinking — I really don't know why she would. 

INIr. Halley. How many ])eople work in the establishment? 
INIiss Forrestal. I think between 19 and 20, something like that. 
Mr. Halley. But those go in both rooms ? 
Miss Forrestal. Oh, no. 
Mr. Halley. How many altogether? 

Miss Forrestal. I think there are six or seven in the back. I am 
guessing. 

Mr. Halley. What do they do in the back ? 

Miss Forrestal. Take bets on horses. 

Mr. Halley. Thev operate the phones? 

Miss Fohrestal. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. So there would be about 25 or 26 people altogether. 

Miss Forrestal. Something like that. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 125 

Mr. White. How many rooms does this bookmaking establisliment 
consist of? 

Miss FoRREsTAL. Two. I am sorry, there aren't 21 jieople in our 
immediate office. I am counting; 2 people that are on the road, so to 
speak, who travel. I think there are 18 or 19. 

Mr. Halley. The people operate at the track and phone bets in ? 

Miss FoitRESTAL. What do you mean phone bets ? 

Mr. Halley. Do you have people — they don't phone the bets in. they 
just record tliem and settle u]> at the end of the week. But do you 
have people at the race track who take bets 'i 

Miss FoRRESTAL. No. 

Mr. Halley. For instance 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Oil. I am confused on that. 

]\Ir. Hallp:y. Here is wdiat I mean. 

Mr. Shenker. Mr. Halley isn't trying to confuse you. 

Mr. Halley. I am tryino- to find out a little bit aljout the operation. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. They are our men, paid by us. We have a man at 
the track, for instance at Chicago, and we lay off money, but I thought 
you meant do they bet us. 

Mr. Halley. Is that to lay oif on the machine, to lay off money with 
other bettors ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I dou't know that much about it. With other 
bettors? 

]Mr. Halley. Let's see if I can get at it this way. Do the people 
that you have at the track take bets from people ? 

]\IisS FoRRESTAL. Oh, 110. 

Mv. Halley. What do they do? 

JNIiss FoRRESTAL. We give them money, that is lay-otl' money. 

Mr. Halley. And they put that money into the nnituel machines? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Really I have never watched them and don't know. 
I sup])ose they go up to the window like anyone who goes to a race 
track, I presume. I don't know that much about it. 

Mr. Halley. Do they take any bets? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. You mean do our men accept bets? No; not that 
I know of. 

Mr. Halley. From ])eople at the track? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. No ; I wouldn't think so. 

Mr. White. Miss Forrestal, you say there are two rooms ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

Mr. White. The room I entered was just one room. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. That is right, then you go down the hall and there 
is another one. 

Mr. White. Down the hall. You mean right directly across with 
a sign on the door saying "private''? 

Miss FoRREvSTAL. No. 

Mr. White. Where does that other room enter from? 

Miss Forrestal. I guess you didn't get to the back part of the office 
because it is just down the hall and there is another room. Did you 
see the refrigerator in there ? You weren't very far inside our office. 

Mr. White. I guess not. Do you have any connection — does this 
establishment have any connection with the place directly across the 
hall fr(Mn the main entrance as you come u]) the stairs to the landing? 

Miss Forrestal. Oh, no. That is a private office. 



126 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. White. No connection with your business. 

Miss FoRRESTAL. No. As far as I know. I think the man owns the 
building. 

The Chairman. Where is Mr. Carroll now ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I saw him last Friday, and since then I wouldn't 
know where he is. 

The Chairman. Is he out of town ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. He could be. I don't really know, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you see him after the subpena was served ? 

Miss FORRESTAL. No. 

The Chairman. Does Mr. Carroll have a son, J. J. Carroll, Jr.? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Yes. 

The Chairman. Where does he live? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Ill California. 

The Chairman. What does he do ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. I think he has some sort of manufacturing busi- 
ness. I really could not say because I don't know. 

The Chairman. Does he have an operation out there similar to the 
one you work in, do you know ? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Youiig Jim Carroll? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Miss Forrestal. No ; I don't believe he has ever been in this busi- 
ness as far as I know. 

The Chairman. All right, that is all. 

Mr. Shenker. The record may show that I happen to know young 
Jim Carroll and he is not engaged in any such business. 

The Chairman. What does he do ? 

Mr. Shenker. He is in the manufacturing business. He is married 
and has a child. He lives out on the coast. He is in the manufacturing 
business, specialty manufacturing, some specialty for automobile 
fenders. 

Miss Forrestal. Oh, yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Shenker. He has no connection with the business. 

Miss Forrestal. I am sorry, my mother confused you on that. 

Mr. White. I was just curious as to your background. 

The Chairman. Could you give us your best estimate of the amount 
of money that would be bet per day ? 

Miss Forrestal. It varies. 

The Chairman. Your best estimate, of an average day. 

Mr. Shenker. The best estimate that you can. They realize it is an 
estimate. 

Miss Forrestal. I don't know what they mean. Do they mean 
the take ? 

Mr. Shenker. No ; the whole money that comes in. 

Miss Forrestal. That is the take. Of course maybe the pay is 
greater. That is what I am trying to tell you. 

The Chairman. We are asking you about the take. 

Miss Forrestal. I suppose maybe $20,000, $16,000, something like 
that. 

The Chairman. You think that is an average day ? 

JNIiss Forrestal. I think maybe $16,000 would be closer, probably. 
I am awfully poor at that, though. 

The Chairman. What is the technical name of this place? 



I 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 127 

Miss FoRRESTAL. Joliii Mooney. Oh, Maryland Bookshop, I believe 
is the way. 

The Chairman. The what? 

Miss FoRRESTAL. The Maryland Bookshop, M-a-r-y-1-a-n-d. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Shenker. Thank you, sir. 

The Chairisian. Thank you, Miss Forrestal. 

Miss Forrestal. You are welcome. 

The Chairman. Chief Vickery, please. 

You are Mr. Vickery? 

jNIr. HoBAN. I am Mr. Hoban, his attorney. 

The Chairman. What is your first name? 

Mr. Hoban. John. 

The Chairman. What is your address? 

Mr. Hoban. 104 North Main Street, East St. Louis. 

The Chairman. You are representing Mr. Vickery ? 

Mr. Hoban. Yes. 

The Chairman. Let the record so show. Chief, will you hold up 
your hand ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give the committee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Vickery. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN VICKERY, CHIEF OF POLICE, FAIRMONT CITY, 
ILL., ACCOMPANIED BY JOHN HOBAN, ATTORNEY, EAST ST. 
LOUIS, ILL. 

Mr. Halley. What is your address, Mr. Vickery? 

Mr. Vickery. 2502 North Forty-fifth Street, Fairmont City. 

Mr. Halley. Illinois? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. "VA^iat is your occupation? 

Mr. Vickery. Police chief. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you been chief of police of Fairmont 
City? 

Mr. Vickery. About 1 year. 

Mr. Halley. Prior to that what was your occupation ? 

Mr. Vickery. Coal miner. 

Mr. Halley. You were a coal miner until 1949 ? 

Mr. Vickery. Until 1947. I was night patrolman before I was 
chief. 

Mr. Halley. You were a coal miner until 1947? About what 
month ? 

Mr. Vickery. I really don't recall what month. 

Mr. Halley. Was it in the spring or in the fall, the early part of 
the year or the latter part of the year ? 

Mr. Vickery. It was the early part of the year. 

Mr. Halley. After the early part of 1947 you became a night 
patrolman ? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. On the police force of Fairmont City ? 

Mr. Vickery. That is right. 



128 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Did you hold any other job between then and the time 
;^ou become police chief? 

Mr. ViCKKRY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. "When did you become chief of police ? 

Mr, ViCKERY, About the 5th of May. 

Mr. Halley. About the 5th of May 1049 ? 

INIr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

INfr. Halley. Mr. Vickery, do you know anything about the Melba 
bookmaking establishment, Melba Co.? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Just what I heard. 

The Chairman. Speak louder, Chief, so the reporter can hear it and 
so I can hear it. 

Mr. Halley. What did you hear and what can you toll this com- 
mittee about the ^Melba Co.? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I had heard that there was a news service there of 
some sort, a wire service. 

Mr. Halley. A news service where ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. On Cookton Road. 

Mr. Halley. In Fairmont City ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You say you had heard it. From whom did you 
hear it ? 

]\Ir. ViCKERY. No one in particular. I just heard that. 

Mr. Halley. What else can you tell the committee about it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. That is practically all. 

]Mr. Halley. Do you know a man named Snyder ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Paul J. Snyder? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear of him ? 

]\Ir. ViCKERY. I have heard of him. 

Mr. Halley. Whei-e did you hear from him and from whom ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No one in particular. I have just heard the name 
mentioned. 

Mr. Halley. Were you asked by the investigators for this commit- 
tee the location of the Melba bookmaking establishment so they could 
serve a subpena ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Halley. You told them you didn't know where it was, did you 
not ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. But you do know where it is, is that not right ? 

Mr. ViCKERY, They asked me where there was a bookie, if I am not 
mistaken, and I said'l didn't know where there was a bookie at Fair- 
mont, 

Mr. Halley. You couldn't even tell them where the place was. It 
is just a block from your police station, isn't it? 

Mr. ViCKERY, That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Yet you refused to tell 

The Chairman. You mean the Melba Co. was one block from the 
police station? 

Mr. Halley. Yes, sir. 

What did you do after our investigators called on you? AVho called 
on you; Mi-. White, here? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 129 

Mr. Halley. AVhat did you do after he left? Did you make any 
plione calls ? 

Mr. VicKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you walk over to the Melba Co. yourself after- 
ward ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you s])okeu to Mr. Schneider since seeing Mr. 
White? 

Mr. ViCKERT. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Chief Vickery, you have said that you heard there 
was a news service located at this bookmaking establishment. Did you 
not know that it was a bookmaking establishment? 

Mr. Vickery. Not for sure ; no. 

Mr. Halley. What do you mean, not for sure? 

Mr. Vickery, Only what I had heard. 

Mr. Halley. What had you heard ? 

Mr. Vickery. That there was a news service there. 

Mr. Halley. You heard it was called the Melba Co., I suppose ? 

Mr. Vickery. No. 

Mr. Halley. What do they have on the door ? 

Mr. Vickery. I really don't know. 

Mr. Halley. There must be some sign outside the door, isn't there? 

Mr. Vickery. I couldn't say. 

Mr. White. You have read in the papers that this was a book- 
making establishment, hadn't you? 

JNIr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. On several occasions ? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. That was much prior to my visit to Fairmont City last 
Friday ? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Was not there a big lawsuit about this Melba Co. ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

The Chairman. The Post Office Department brought some law- 
suit or something ? 

Mr. White. That is right. 

The Chairman. Is that the same company ? 

jNIr. White. The same company ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Why didn't you tell Mr. White where it was located? 
Why did you try to delay him in his service of this subpena, Chief 
Vickery ( 

Mr. Vickery. I was asked where there was a bookie and I didn't 
know. 

^Ir. Halley. You were also asked where it was located and you 
specifically said you didn't know, isn't that right? 

Mr. White. That is right. Weren't you also asked, Chief, where 
the Melba Co. was specifically? 

Mv. Vickery. It seems to me like I was asked where a bookie was 
located. 

Mr. White. It also seems to you and vou also recall, don't you, that 
you were asked specifically if you knew where the Melba Co. was on 
Cookson Koad? 

Mr. Vickery. No, it seems to me what I said 



130 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Do you care to leave the record so there will be a 
specific conflict of veracity between you and Mr. White ^ 

Mr. VicKERT. It seems to me that is the way I understood it. 

Mr. Halley. Your story is that you weren't asked about the Melba 
Co. at all? 

Mr. ViCKERY. It seems to me as though I was asked about a bookie, 
where the bookies were located. 

Mr. Halley. You are sure Mr. White didn't mention the ISIelba 
Co. ? Are you absolutely sure ? 

Mr. ViCKERY, No, I am not sure. 

Mr. Halley. Are you sure he didn't mention Cookson Road? 

]\Ir. ViCKERY. No, I am not sure of that. 

Mr. Halley, Now, Chief Vicker}', what is your salary as chief? 

Mr. ViciiERY. $240 a month. 

Mr. Halley. What was your salary as night patrolman ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. $215 a month. 

Mr. Halley. That was a month ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley, Have you any other sources of income other than your 

feakryf 

Ml*. ViCKERY. My wife is in business. 

Mr. Halley. What business is your wife in ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. A restaurant, tavern. 

Mr. Halley. Where is that located ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Forty-fifth Street in Fairmont City. 

Mr. Halley. How long has she been in that business ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Four years. 

Mr. Halley. Has she any partners in that tavern business ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. She is in that alone ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Prior to becoming — what were your earnings as a 
coal miner? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Eight dollars a day. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have with you your income-tax returns pur- 
suant to subpena ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Will you turn them over to the committee at this time? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir [producing documents]. 

The Chairman. What years do you have there, Chief ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. From 1945 up to now. 

Mr. HoRAN. Those are joint returns made by him and his wife. 

Mr. Halley. You have made joint returns, is that right? 

Mr. ViCKERY. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. In each case are these returns accurate? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do they really reflect the income received by you and 
your wife? 

]\Ir. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Let's start with 1947 and work our wav up. We will 
start with 1945. I think that might be best. In 1945—1 don't think I 
have the return for 1945. Here is 1946, 1947, 1948, and 1949. Is this 
what you have for 1945 ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 131 

Did you have any assets at the end of 1945 ? 

Mr. VicKERY. The tavern. 

Mr. Halley. You had the tavern. That is, your wife had it. 

Mr. VicKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have a bank account ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have one 5^et ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Does your wife have a bank account ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Where do you keep your money ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Well, we haven't got that much to worry about. 

Mr. Halley. Where do you keep the money that you do have? 

Mr. ViCKERY. In a safe. 

Mr. Halley. Where is the safe ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. In the house. 

Mr. Halley. Is it an actual safe or a vault? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No ; it is a safe. 

Mr. Halley. With a combination on it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do jon have a safe-deposit box ? 

Mr. ViCKERY, No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You keep your money in a safe in the house ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

The Chairmax. Is that the only property you had in 1915, the 
tavern ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. "Wliat is that worth? What did it cost you? 
When did your wife buy it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Here it all is, right here [producing a document]. 

Mr. HoBAX. This is merely a description of the property. 

The Chairman. What does it show, Mr. Lawyer. You know what 
it cost. 

Mr. HoBAN. Senator. I am afraid I couldn't place a value on it. 
Valuation in Fairmont City is probably lower than any place in the 
county. 

The Chairman. What did it cost when vou bought it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. $5,000, 1 believe. 

The Chairman. When did you buy it, or when did your wife buy it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. About 1915 or 1916. 

Mr. Halley. It shows here in your 1946 return, operation of the 
tavern for 9 montlis. Would that mean that you bought it in 1946 ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Let's follow through starting, then, in 1946. What 
did she pav for the tavern ; do you know ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. $5,000. 

Mr. Halley. It says here on this return, $2,500. 

Mr. ViCKERY. That was down payment. 

Mr. Halley. $2,500 was to be paid out? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any other money besides that $2,500, or 
did she at that time ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes ; around a thousand dollars. 

Mr. Halley. About a thousand dollars. 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 



132 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Then in 1046 between yourself and your wife you 
reported to the Government total earnings of $5,207.88. Would that 
be rioht ? 

Mr. VicKERY. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Halley. On that you })aid a tax of something like $600; is that 
right ? 

^[r. VicKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Then in 1047 the tavern apparently wasn't — the tavern 
seems to be about the same degree of success, but your earnings as a 
coal minei- dropped to $886 ; is that right ? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. So the total family income was $3,051.66. That is 
when you entered the police force, some time in 1047 ^ 

Mv. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. I guess it was in 1048 because j'ou show no income 
from the police force in 1047. 

Mr. Vickery. It was in 1048 that I went on the police force. 

Mr. Halley. Your total wages in 1048 from the police force was 
$1,720 that you reported ; is that right ^ 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Your total family income was $3,275. Then in 1049 
the total family income was, you earned $2,738, I believe and the tav- 
ern showed a higher profit and the total is $5,517. 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. I understand you have quite a large diamond ring. 
You had it when you saw Mr. AVhite last? 

Mr. Vickery. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You are not wearing it today, I notice. "Where did 
you get it ? 

Mr. Vickery. My wife bought it for me. 

Mr. Halley. How long ago ? 

Mr. Vickery. I think it Avas about 3 years ago. 

Mr. Halley. How much was it? 

Mr. Vickery. I think it was $1,200. 

Mr. White. Where did she buy it? 

Mr. Vickery. Zerwecks, East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. You own a Cadillac? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mv. Halley. Did you buy it new? * 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

INIr. Halley. In what year ? 

Mr. Vickery. This year. 

Mr. Halley. 1950? 

Mv. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Halley. Where did you buy it ? 

Mr. Vickery. East St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. What model is it? 

Mr. Vickery. 1050, a 62. 

Mr. Halley. A sedan ? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What did you pav for that ? 

INIr. Vickery. $4,100. 

Mr. Halley. Did you trade another car in on it! 

Mv. Vickery. Xo, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME i:< INTERSTATE COMMERCE 133 

Mr. Halley. Had you owned a car before that ? 

Mr. VicKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What car did you own before that ? 

Mr. Vickery. A Studebaker. 

Mr. Halley. What year? 

Mr. Vickery. 1939. ' 

Mr. Halley. You just kept that? 

]\Ir. Vickery. Yes. sir. I gave it to my daughter. 

Mr. Halley. I see. Does your chiughter have an income? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes. 

Mv. Halley. Does she woi-k ? 

]\Ir. Vickery. She works for my wife. 

Mr. Halley. In the tavern ? 

Mv. Vickery. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. She drives the Studebaker now? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mi-. Halley. Chief Vickery 

The Chairman. How many chikh'en have you, by the way? 
Mr. Vickery. One. 
Mr. Halley. Do you own a house ? 
Mr. Vickery. I did, but I lost it in a fire. 
Mr. Halley. In a fire how long ago? 

Mr. Vickery. Around 1945, just before I bought the tavern. 
Mr. Halley. Did you get any insurance money? 
Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Halley. How much ? 
Mr. Vickery. AVell, around $3,500, 1 believe. 
Mr. Halley. That was what you used to buy the tavern ? 
Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And a thousand was left over? 
Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Whose house was that, yours or your wife's ? 
Mr. Vickery. Both of ours. 

Mr. Halley. I see. Then j^ou gave the money to your wife to buy 
the tavern, is that right ? 
ilr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you own part of the tavern or is that just hers? 
Mv. Vickery. Xo ; I own part of it. 
Mr. Halley. Are you a half owner ? 
Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are there any slot machines in that tavern ? 
Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 
Mr. Halley. Are you sure ? 
Mv. Vickery. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Halley. Were there ever any ? 
Mr. Vickery. There has been. 

Mr. Halley. When were they allowed slot machines? 
Mr. Vk^kery. About a year ago. 
Mr. Halley. How many did you have ? 
Mr. Vickery. I think there were three. 
Mr. Halley. Three? 
Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 
Mv. Halley. When did you take them out? 
Mr. Vickery. It seems to me around 9 months ago. 



134 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr, Halley. How long were they in ? Several years ; isn't that so? 

Mr. ViCKERY. They were there when we bought the place. 

Mr. Halley. Did you live in the tavern? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. Well, not in the tavern. I have a room in 
the back. 

Mr. Halley. Do you own any other propertv? 

]Mr. ViCKERY. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How much cash do you have now? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Well, I imagine around a thousand dollars. 

Mr. Halley. In the safe ? 

Mr, ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Does your wife own any other property ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Any stocks or bonds? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Will you tell the committee why you permit this book 
establishment to operate within a block of your police station? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I just never had had no complaint about it. 

Mr. Halley. How about the complaints in the newspapers ? Does 
anybody pay you any money to allow them to operate? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Has anybody ever paid you any money? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Not a penny. 

Mr. Halley. You have not received one single penny over and 
above your salary ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get the money to buy the diamond 
ring and the Cadillac automobile? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Well, the Cadillac isn't paid for. 

Mr. Halley. How much did you pay down on it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. $2,000. 

ISfr. Halley. Is the diamond ring paid for? I 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What are the monthly payments on the Cadillac? 

Mr. ViCKERY. $175 a month. 

Mr. Halley. What is your salary ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. $240. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have the Cadillac insured ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. The company has that I bought it from. 

Mr. Halley. You run it regularly ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. In my work ; yes, sir. 

]Mr. Halley. I don't see how you can live if you pay $175 out of a 
$240 monthly salary and run an automobile. 

Mr. ViCKERY. The city pays my expense. 

:Mr. Halley. It doesn't pay the $175. 

Mr. ViCKERY. Oh, no. 

Mr. Halley. How do you live ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Well, I manage. I haven't got no expensive habits 
for one thing. 

Mr. Halley. How did you manage to finance the diamond ring? 

INIr. ViCKERY. My wife managed that. 

IVfr. HaI;Ley. How did she do that ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. She just bouglit it for me, that is all. 

Mr. Halley. Saved up all that cash? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 135 

Mr. ViCKERY. She never paid cash for it. 

]Mr. Halley. Did she buy tliat on credit, too ? 

Mr. VicKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What were the monthly payments on that? 

Mr. Vickery. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Chief, do you think you have done your duty as the 
chief of police of Fairmont City in allowing this bookmaking estab- 
lishment to operate so close to your police headquarters, one about 
which you had read even in the newspapers ? 

Mr. Vickery. Well, just like I said before, nobody had made no 
complaint to me about it. Nobody had ever said anything. 

Mr. Halley. The newspapers have been complaining about it for 
some time. 

Mr. Horan. Let me interpose one suggestion here, Mr. Halley. 
You referred to it as a bookmaking establishment. I don't think 
the newspapers have ever referred to it as a bookmaking establish- 
ment. The reference has ahvays been to a news-wire service. A 
bookmaking establishment to us around here means a place where 
they walk in and bet and come out again. 

Mr. Halley. I will let the witness answer. 

The Chairman. I will ask you to tell me your name again, please. 

Mr. HoBAN. Hoban, Ho-b-a-n. 

The Chairman. Was not the publicity in the Melba Co. in the 
criminal suit the United States Government brought all in the papers 
out here for quite a long time? 

Mr. HoBAN. They have had various items concerning that outfit in 
the i^aper for over a year anyway, Senator, I would say, not particu- 
larly on the criminal matter that you refer to, but various other mat- 
ters. At one time 

The Chairman. Crime reporters have been writing about it for 
years. 

Mr. Hoban. The only thing I can remember Link writing about is 
the Shelton gang. 

The Chairman. Let me ask the chief one or two questions. Is this 
in a house all by itself, this Melba Co., in a bungalow ? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. There is nothing else then in there ? 

Mr. Vickery. I don't know. I have never been in the place. 

The Chairman. Do you know anybody who works in there ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did anybody ever tell you, any official of the city 
or the sheriff or anybody to lay off that place ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

The Chairman. There has been another establishment out there, 
the Reliable News Service, which has been operating in your town, 
hasn't there. Chief, for some time? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What is that Reliable News Service ? 

Mr. Vickery. Well, I don't know. 

The Chairman. Has not that been in the papers sometimes, too, 
thq,t Reliable News Service is one of the big dispersers of race-horse 
news, and a fellow named Wortman — w^hat is his name ? 

Mr. White. Buster Wortman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Brown and others own the i)lace? 



136 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. ViCKERT. I don't know. I never met them. 

The Chairman. Is it still operating? 

Mr. ViCKEKY. Xo, sir : not that I know of. 

The Chairman. When did it last operate ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I couldn't say. 

The Chairman. Do you know Buster Wortman ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Never saw him? 

Mr. Vickery. Not that I know of. 

The Chairman. AVhat sort of license does this Reliable News Serv- 
ice have ? 

INIr. Vickery. A coal dealer's license. 

The Chairman. Did you check that ? 

Mr. Vickery. Did I check that ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Vickery. Well, that is the way I understand. They pay a coal 
dealer's license. 

The Chairman. It is listed as Reliable News Service and they pay 
a coal dealer's license. Is that rifjht, Chief ? 

Mr. Halley. Let the record show whether the chief answered that 
question or not. 

Mr. Vickery. It is listed as a coal dealer. 

The Chairman. Would not that create some suspicion on your part 
that you had a news service listed as a coal dealer? 

Mr. Vickery. I imagine it did. 

The Chairman. Why did you not do something about it ? 

Mr. Vickery. I just wasn't told to. 

The Chairman. Told by whom? 

Mr, Vickery. I have to take orders, too. 

The Chairman. Who do you take orders from ? 

Mr. Vickery. There were no complaints. 

The Chairman. Who do you take orders from. Chief ? 

Mr. Vickery. The mayor and the board members. 

The Chairman. You advise with them about what places to get 
after and what places not to? 

^h\ Vickery. No, There are times that they tell me to do certain 
things. 

The Chairman. Who tells you to do certain things ? 

Mr. Vickery. A board member will come up, and I am also street 
commissioner. He will tell me— — 

The Chairman. You do not have to wait until you <yet orders from 
them before you go after some place that is operating illegally, do you ? 

Mr, Vickery. Anything that I see and know that is going on. I 
manage to take care of it. 

The Chairman. You do not have to get instructions from them if 
you know it is in violation of the law, do you ? 

Mr, Vickery. If I see it going on ; no. 

The Chairman. Well, you knew this Reliable News Service Avas 
going on, did you not? 

]Mr. Vickery. I could not prove it. I was not sure of it. You see 
I had never been about the place. I never saw no cars there. I never 
saw no one going in or out. nothing like that. I had plenty of other 
things that I was actually seeing going on that I had to take care '"^ 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 137 

tliat I didn't have time to look for soniething that I didn't know for 
sure existed. 

The Chairman. Who tokl you not to do some things ? Did you go to 
see somebody and say shall I or shall I not go down and close up this 
place ? 

Mi'. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

The Chairman. I Avas interested in these slot machines you had in 
your tavern. AVere these one-arm bandits that you put money in? 

Mr. YicKERY. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And might or might not get something back? 

Mr. VicKERY. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that a violation of the law of Illinois? 

Mr. YiCKERY. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How come you had them in your tavern? 

Mr. YiCKERY. They ^vere there when my wife bought it. 

The Chairman. You kept them there 4 years ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. They w\asn*t there 4 years all the time. 

The Chairman. You got them about a year ago, did you not? 

Mr, VicKERY. They were in and out. 

The Chairman. In and out? Why did you take them in and out? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I could not answer that. 

The Chairman. You nuist have had some reason to take them out 
and bring them back in. What was it? 

Mr. YiCKERY. Well, my wife takes care of that part. I do not go 
about the tavern; very seldom. 

The Chairman. They are hard to take out, are they not ? They are 
big machines. AYliere do you put them when you take them out? 
Where are they now ? 

]\Ir. YiCKERY. I don't know where they are at. 

The Chairman. You nnist know where they are. You have not sold 
them, have you ? 

Mr. YiCKERY. No. 

The Chairman. Where are they ? 

Mr. YiCKERY. I don't know. 

The Chairman. Have you no idea where they are ? 

Mr. YiCKERY, No, sir. 

The Chairman. Are they still on your premises over there? 

Mr. YiCKERY. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Where did you take them to? 

Mr. YiCKERY. I never took them any place. 

Tlie Chairman. Who took them ? 

Mr. YiCKERY. I couldn't answer that. I don't know. 

The Chairman. Did you not ask your wife what happened to them ? 

Mr. YiCKERY. No, sir. 

The Chairman. They just evaporated and you never inquired about 
whether they went or not ? 

iMr. YiCKERY. I wasn't there when they were taken away. 

The Chairman. I know, but thev are valuable machines, aren't 
they? 

Mr. YiCKERY. I imagine they would be. 

The Chairman. Wouldn't you make some inquiry about something 
that was missing when you came back to the tavern? 

Mv. YiCKERY. Well, she don't mess with my business and I don't 
bother with hers. 



138 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. But this is half your business, is it not? 

Mr. VicKERY. In a way it is. 

The Chairman. In a way. You paid half the money on it, did 
you not ? 

Mr. VicKERY. Yes ; I did. 

The Chairman. You file a joint return, so you both live out of the 
income from it. You live on the premises. 

Mr. ViCKERY. That is right. 

The Chairman. Who appoints you, anyway, Chief ? 

Mr. ViCKERY, Mayor Thomas does that. 

The Chairman. Does the mayor or the board appoint you ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. The mayor appoints me and the board approves it. 

The Chairman. Who is the sheriff over there? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Fisher. 

The Chairman. Did you ever talk with him about these places 
operating? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Does he come inside Fairmont City? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I have never met the man. 

The Chairman. You have never met him ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. I have worked with his deputies, but I have 
never met him. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Anything else, Mr. White? 

Mr. White. Did you have a conversation with me Saturday in 
East St. Louis at which time you told me that this automobile was a 
gift from 3'our mother? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes; that is right. 

Mr. White. Is that the truth? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Did your mother buy this car or did you buy it? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I bought it with $1,600 of her money. 

Mr. White, Where did your mother get the money ? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Well, I don't — my father. 

Mr. White. How old is your mother? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Sixty. 

Mr. White. Does she work? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Does she have any source of income? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. White. How does she pay the bills? 

INIr. ViCKERY. M}?- father is retired. 

Mr. White. Is your father still living? 

Mr. ViCKERY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Drawing a pension? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Wliat is he retired from? 

Mr. ViCKERY. He was a boss in the mine. 

INIr. White. Didn't you tell me Saturday that your father was dead? 

Mr. ViCKERY. No, sir; I did not. 

]\rr. White. Do you remember having a conversation with Mr. Con- 
nor and myself in ^Ir. Connor's office and you said your mother was a 
widow and inherited some money? 

Mr. ViCKERY. I certainly never. 



i 



ORGANIZED CRIIME IX INTERSTATE COMIMEROE 139 

Mr. Halley. Chief, why do you say this was a gift from your 
mother ? 

]Mr. ViCKERY. Because it was. 

Mr. Haleey. Why didn't you tell that to the committee when you 
testified a little while ago that you had bought it yourself, referring 
to the Cadillac car? 

Mr. Vickery. Mr. White knew that. I told Mr. White. 

Mr. Halley. Where does your mother live? 

Mr. Vickery. Collinsville, 111. 

Mr. Halley. Does she own her own home? 

Mr. Vickery. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When did she buy it ? 

Mr. Vickery. About 25 years ago. 

Mr. Halley. Do you give her any money ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. I did until I got married. 

]\Ir. Halley. You don't contribute to her support in any way ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Does she hold any money for you ? 

Mr. Vickery. How do you mean, does she hold any money for me? 

Mr. Halley. Does she keep any money for you ? 

Mr. Vickery. Of my own money ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

IVIr. Halley. Has she ever kept any money for you? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Does she own any stocks and bonds to your knowledge? 

Mr. Vickery. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Halley. Has she any property other than the house she lives in ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And you do not give her any money ? 

Mr. Vickery. No, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. Anything else? 

Mr. Halley. No. 

Mr. White. No. 

Mr. HoBAN. May we have the returns back ? 

ISIr. Halley, Not just yet. We want to photostat them. 

Mr. HoBAN. But w^e will get them back ? 

The Chairman. You will get them back, Mr. Hoban. Thank you. 
All right. Chief, you are excused. 

Call Mayor Thomas. 

Mayor Thomas, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Thomas. I do. 

Mr. HoBAN. I am also appearing with Mayor Thomas. 

TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY THOMAS, MAYOR, FAIRMONT CITY, ILL., 
ACCOMPANIED BY JOHN HOBAN, ATTORNEY, EAST ST. LOUIS, 
ILL. 

The Chairman. You are mayor of Fairmont City, 111. ? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you been mayor ? 

6S958 — 51— pt. 4a 10 



140 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Thomas. About 20 years. 

Mr. Halley. Does Cliief John Vickery of the police force operate 
under your direct orders^ 

jNIr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you order liim to enter or raid the ]\[elba Co. ? 

Mr. Thomas. No, sir, 

IVIr. Halley. Did you ever order him not to enter or raid the 
Reliable Co.? 

Mr. Thomas. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear that the Melba Co. in Fairmont 
City was engaged in the bookmaking business? 

]\Ir. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear that the Reliable Co. in Fair- 
mont City was engaged in the boolanaking business? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you order your chief of police to put them out of 
Inisiness? 

JNIr. Thomas. No. 

Mr. Halley. Why not ? 

Mr. Thomas. We'll, just on the ground that I didn't figure it would 
be good with the evidence that we had to have. We had to have 
evidence where they were gambling and making bets and paying off. 
With the wire system we didn't figure we could close them. 

IMr. Halley. Did you ask for any help from the State police or the 
Governor ? 

Mr. Thomas. No. 

Mr. Halley. Or the county attorney ? 

Mv. Thomas. No. 

]\Ir. Halley. You could get help if you wanted it, could you not ? 

jNIr. Thomas. I don't know. I never asked them. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know anv of the people connected with the 
Melba Co.? 

Mr. Thomas. No ; only this fellow that I see in the paper there, and 
I had saw him once, this man Schneider. 

]\Ir. Halley. What is his full name? 

Mr. Thomas. I don't know that. 

]Mr. Halley. A^Hiere did you see him? 

jNIr. Thomas. I seen him on the street there and I seen him — I didn't 
know him this morning, a fellow pointed him out to me here this 
morning. 

Mr. Halley. You never met him before? 

Mr. Thomas. No. 

Mr, Halley. Did you ever speak to any of the people who run this 
Melba Co, ? 

Mr. Thomas. No; I am not acquainted with any of them. 

Mr. Halley. How about the Reliable Co.? Are you acquainted 
with any of the people connected with that? 

Mr. Thomas. No ; only all I know is what I see in the papers that it 
is controlled by a man by the name of Wortman. That is all I know. 

^Nlr. Halley. Have you ever seen Wortman ? 

Mr. Thomas. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know him? 

Ml". Tiio^rAS. No, sir. 1 have never seen him in mv life. 



orga:s"ized crime ix interstate commerce 141 

Mr. Halley. Do you own an automobile? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What kind? 

Mr. Thomas. A Dodge. 

Mr. Halley. What year ? 

Mr. Thomas. 1947. 

Mr. Halley. Did you think there was anything unusual in your 
chief of police getting a new Cadillac automobile? 

Mr. TH03IAS. No. ' 

Mr. Halley. His salary is $240 a month. You know that. 

Mr. Thomas. Since this come up, it looks funny, yes; but I never 
thought anything about it at all. He had money, 1 think, I am pretty 
sure. 

Mr. Halley. He was a coal miner, wasn't he ? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Then he was a night patrolman on your police force. 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Where would he have gotten money from? 

]VIr. Thomas. I dont know. His folks, maybe. 

Mr. Halley. No, they have none. 

Mr. Thomas. I don't know, I don't know his folks. 

Mr. Halley. Has he alwaj's acted as though he had money? 

Mr. Thomas. He always got along. 

The Chairmax. Louder, please. 

Mr, Thomas. He always got along. I always figured he owned 
property and all, that he had money before he ever went on the police 
force. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever visit his tavern \ 

Mr. Thomas. No. Excuse me. I was in there about once or twice 
when he first opened up. He wasn't a policeman then. 

Mr. Halley. What was he doing then { 

Mr. Thomas. I don't know. 1 guess working in the mine. 

Mr. Halley. Was he running the tavern, too? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you see the slot machines he had there? 

Mr. Thomas. No, I will say not, because I wasn't there when he 
had slot machines. At this time there was no slot machines when 
I was there. 

Mr. Halley. You do know that he had slot machines? 

Mr. Tno:MAs. Yes, sir. I don't know. I hear that he did have. 

Mr. Halley. Where did vou hear that? 

]\Ir. Thomas. Sir? 

Mr. Halley. Where did you hear that? 

Mr. Thomas. It was generally known that every place in town 
liad them. 

Mr. Halley. What about it ? 

The CfFAiRMAx. Every place in town has them? 

Mr. Halley. Is that right? 

Mr. TiroMAs. Not now, but they used to have them. 

Mr. Halley. He got rid of his only about 9 months ago, he says. 

Mr. Thomas. I don't know when he got rid of them. Gentlemen, 
I haven't been in .some of these places. I was in his place. It was 
quite a while ago, before he was a policeman. 



142 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. Those things are illegal, aren't they ? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. 

Mr, Halley, They are reputed to be under the control of racketeers 
from Chicago and other areas. Have you any information about 
tliat ? 

Mr. Thomas. No, only that I know there was a faction there in the 
last 2 years, something like that, what I read in the newspapers, that 
one party was trying to take oyer from the other. That is all I know. 

Mr. Halley. You expected a lot of bloodshed, didn't you, when 
Eeliable opened up ? It was even in the newspapers. 

Mr. Thomas. No. 

Mr. Halley. That there was going to be a gang war ? 

Mr. Thomas. No. 

Mr. Halley. You read the newspapers, don't you ? 

Mr. Thomas. I read the newspapers. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you read in the newspapers that a Chicago 
mob had come and opened up Reliable and that there was very apt to 
be bloodshed? Don't you remember that? 

Mr. Thomas. I remember when it was in the paper about them 
opening up, coming in here taking over. 

Mr. Halley. And it looked like trouble ? 

Mr. Thomas. Oh, yes. You naturally would think there would be, 
but I never figiu'ed it, because those gentlemen never came in our place. 
We have the reputation that those gangsters hang out in Fairmont, 
but that is mistaken. We have none of that. 

Mr. Halley. What about your reputation. You just said that 
everybody knows there are slot machines all over toAvn. 

Mr. Thomas. I have an idea there w^ere. 

Mr. Halley. Your reputation can't be vei-y good even in your 
own mind, can it? 

Mr. Thomas. That is true. 

Mr. Halley. Mayor, why do you let these things go on in your 
town ? Are you ]:)owerless to do anything about them ? 

Mr. Thomas. No. not exactly; but as I say, on this bookie stuff, 
if you call it bookie, we never figure them bookies because as long 
as they never took bets, we were under the impression that we couldn't 
have evidence where they used the telephone, enough evidence to do 
anything with them. We have seen rulings of the different courts 
and one thing and another, that they were indicted and such as that, 
and they got by with it, and they weren't proven guilty, so what would 
us little fellows do with a crowd of that kind? 

Mr, Halley. You did give it serious consideration, then? 

Mr. Thomas. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Halley. With whom dfd you talk about it ? 

Mr. Thomas. Not the chief of police that we have. I talked to the 
chief of police before this man ever went on. When the place first 
opened up we figured it would be a bookie, you know, where they 
would bet money and such as that, and we kind of wat-ched, but there 
never was to mv knowledge, and I don't think there ever was a bet 
made or paid off in them places because you never see nobody going 
in or out. There are clerks that come there in the mornino:. and in 
the evening about 5 o'clock they leave. As far as the head fellows of 
those organizations, the gangsters or what you call them, I don't know 
whether — they were supposed to be head of the stuff, but whether 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 143 

they were out there or not I don't know. I think they just merely had 
clerks. 

Mr. Halley. Let us get back to the slot machines. They are clearly 
illegal, is that right? 

Mr. Thomas. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And they were all over town for many years, is that 
right ? 

Mv. Tiio:\rAS. Well, I don't know how long but they were in there. 

Mr. Halley. All over town I think you said. And even your chief 
of police had some in his tavern, is that right? 

Mr. Thomas. Most likely. I wouldn't say so, I never saw them. 

Mr. Halley. You have heard of it. 

Mr. Thomas. They all had them. Even with them I never saw 
them. I just took it for granted because I think most of the taverns 
in the country had them in as far as that goes. 

Mr. Halley. You have never at any time attempted to do anything 
to stop these people from running slot machines? 

Mr. Thomas. I figured if they were to be caught, it was up to him 
to get them nailed. 

]\rr. Halley. How could they be caught if the chief of police was 
one of the people operating them ? 

Mr. Thomas. There are other officials in the county besides us 
fellows. 

Mr. Halley. You mean you would want some other official, county 
official, to catch your chief of police? 

Mr. Thomas. No, no. No, I don't mean that. In every place else 
there is something or other, and you go in there and you deprive your 
people, the same as the closing laws of taverns. We close our taverns 
up, and then they get the machines and they go someplace else, and 
then we would get the devil that the money was going out of town and 
they weren't getting it. We always had the closing time on our 
taverns. We have them limited. Also to keep the other element from 
coming in there we had an ordinance passed that you had to be a resi- 
dent there 1 year before you were entitled to get a license. On top of 
that we put a limit on taverns, because when they would get these 
places in different parts that get in trouble, they wanted us to get out 
of their place and try to locate one place or another. In order to keep 
them out that is what we did. 

Mr. Halley. In all fairness, then, would you say, Mayor, that 
you would advise the committee to look into other neighboring towns 
on the subject of slot machines and bookie joints, too? 

Mr. Thomas. I think it is up to them. I couldn't recommend those 
things. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. At least you say you weren't the only one. 

Mr. Thomas. I am satisfied of that. 

Mr. Halley. Did you bring your income-tax returns with you? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Can vou present them to the committee ? 

The Chairma^t. What business are you in. Mayor Thomas? 

Mr. Thomas. I work for the Enst Side Levee and Sanitary District. 

The CiiAiR:\rAN. What do you do with them ? 

Mr. Thomas. Sir? 

The Chairman. Wliat do you do with them ? 



144 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Thomas. I am an inspector. ]:)atrolman. We are takino; care 
of the levees, inspectin<r tliem and -vvhen the water is hi^rh. and after 
heavy rains to see that there is no dan<ier there in the canals, and 
when the river fjets hifjli, yon know those places Avhere it is weak and 
the water is seepino:. They call in to headquarters and they have a 
gang- that sandbags those levees and one thinof and another. 

The Chairman. "What do yon make as mayor of the city of Fair- 
mont ? 

Mr. Tfiomas. One hundred dollars a month. 

The Chairman. How large is Fairmont? 

Mr. Thomas. 1900. 

The Chairman. Are there oamblino- places operating in Fairmont, 
big casinos or anvthing of that sort that you know of? 

Mr. Thomas. No: no gambling. 

The Chairman. Oh, yes, Mayor, there has been something said 
that this Reliable News Service had a license as a coal dealer. Do 
you know anything about that? 

Mr. Thomas. I don't know about the license, but that was w^hen 
they first came out there. Whether they got a license, most likely 
they did, but that is the name they went under, the Reliable Coal Co. 

The Chairman. Did you ever see them handling any coal? 

Mr. Thomas. No; they never had no coal. Everybody took it for 
granted, you know, when a place opens up, wanting to know what 
business is going in there, and the report came out that it was a coal 
company. It wasn't over 

The Chairman. They paid the city license for a coal companv, did 
they? ' . ' 

Mr. Tho:mas. I believe they did. They could get tliat from the 
clerk. I believe the}' did. I wouldn't swear to it. but I think that is it. 
I think that is the way it was. They w^eren't there over a week or so, 
and tlie St. Louis newspapers and the East Side paper came out and 
had in there that it was a syndicate from Chicago that had come in 
there under their wire system. 

The Chairman. Do you know this fellow Wortman or any of these 
])eople? 

Mr. Thomas. No, sir; I don't know any of those folks. I have 
nothing to do with those people. 

The Chairman. Hovv- big a council do you have over there. Mayor? 

Mr. Tho:mas. Six trustees. Tliey call me mayor, but president of 
the village board is really my title. We call it mayor. 

The Chairman. Some of them are Democrats and some are Repub- 
licans ? 

Ml-. Thomas. Yes; most of them are Democrats. 

The Chairman. Who is your sheritf over in that county? 

Ml'. Thomas. A man by the name of Fischer. 

The Chairman. Do you know whether he has done anything about 
these slot machines or not? 

]\Ir. Tii():\iAs. I seen where just a short time ago they made a raid 
in Dupo, I believe. 

The Chairman. All right. Mayor. Are there any other questions, 
Mr. AVhite and Mr. Hallev? 

Mr. White. No. 

jNIr. Hallfa'. No. 

JNIr. HoBAN. Do you want his returns? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 145 

The Chairman. We Avill oive them back to you. 

Mr. AViiiTE. Just one question, Mr. Mayor. Do you appoint the 
chief of police? 

Mr. Thomas. With the consent of tlie board; yes. 

Mr. White. Did you select Chief Vickery? 

Mr. Thomas. The way we do that, I wouldn't take it upon myself. 
There wouldn't be any need of my going in and appointing somebody 
if I didn't get approval of the board. We hold a little caucus when 
we decide we need a man. 

Mr. AVhite. Whose candidate was it in this particular instance? 

Mr. Thomas. My candidate. I don't know if you fellows have ever 
been around these little places or not, but that is one of the worst things 
in the country right at this time is to get a policeman. I don't know. 
If one policeman quits, I don't know who in the devil we would get 
for a policeman. It is a hard matter. You take them fellows — a man 
who would make a fair man is making good pay, and he won't fool 
around Avith a police job all hours of the night. They can go out in 
8 hours and make '$1;2 or $15 a day and it is a hard matter. I some- 
times tell somebody it would l;e shameful for me to say I can't get a 
policeman, but it is true, it is hard. 

Mr. White. You feel, then, that in view of the low rate of pay and 
the ditHculty of getting a man, maybe it is all right if he makes a little 
bit on the side, something like that ? 

Mr. Thomas. Xo ; I don't think any one of the police, I don't think so. 

INIr. Halley. How large is the police force in Fairmont ? 

Mr. Thomas. We have the chief of the day police, and we have two 
at night. In order to make it intei-esting, we pay as much as most of 
them towns. We pay $225 for night men, and the chief, of course, 
has extra work as street inspector. He has to look after that in the 
daytime. They get $215 and he gets $240. He gets $25 more than 
they do. That is a fair salary. Years ago you could do good with 
rhat, ])ut it is hard now. 

The Chairman. All right, thank you. Mayor Thomas, and thank 
you, Mr. Hoban. Mayor Thomas, you can leave, and if we need you 
any more, we will call you. 

^Ir. HoKAN. How about the cli-ief. Senator? 

The Chairman. All right, let the chief go home, too. 

You can go home, Mr. Hoban, unless you have some more clients 
here. 

Mr. Portell, ])lease. 

^ir. Portell, do you solemnly swear the testimony you give this com- 
mittee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help vou 
God? ' 1 ^ 

Mr. Portell. I do. 
TESTIMONY OF WILLARD PORTELL, GRANITE CITY, ILL. 

Mr. Halley. What is vour full name? 
]Mr. Portell. Willai^r Portell. 

The Chairman. You are big and husky, speak loud enough so we can 
hear you. 

Mr. Halley. Your address? 

Mr. Portell. 2631 Edward Street, Granite City, 111. 



146 ORGANIZED CRIME I2s^ INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Are you a member of the board of aldermen ? 

Mr. PoRTELL. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever? 

Mr. PoRTELL. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are you acquainted with the mayor ? 

]\Ir. PoRTELL. Yes, I am. 

]Mr. Halley. Did you have any conversations with the mayor con- 
cerning Pioneer News Service ? 

]Mr. PoRTELL. Not that I remember. I don't think I have. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Burnett con- 
'cerning Pioneer News Service ? 

Mr. PoRTELL. Some ; yes. 

Mr. Halley. What were they ? 

Mr. PoRTELL. Just in general, nothing definite, just we knew the 
Pioneer News Service was supposed to be giving bookie service. That 
is all I knew about it. 

Mv. Halley. Didn't you say that the mayor had given permission to 
Pioneer to operate? 

Mr. PoRTELL. Not that I remember. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you tell that to Mr. Burnett in the presence of 
witnesses? 

Mr. PoRTELL. Not that I remember. 

Mr. Halley. Do you remember having a long and heated discussion 
witli Mr. Burnett 

Mr. Portell. I had a lot of long and heated discussions with him, 
but they were more local politics more than anything else. 

Mr. Halley. Were you campaign manager for the mayor ? 

Mr. Portell. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. In what year? 

Mr. Portell. When he was elected, that was a year ago last spring. 

Mr. Halley. You hold no official job, though? 

Mr. PoRTELii. Not in politics ; no, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What is your work? 

Mr. Portell. I am a pipefitter at the American Steel Foundry. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have any job at Granite City at all ? 

Mr. Portell. No, I haven't. 

]\Ir, Halley. ^Vliy did you get out of the political picture in Granite 
■City? 

Mr. Portell. I never did get in the political picture. 

Mr. Halley. What is your political situation? 

Mr. Portell. I never was in the political picture in Granite City. 
At one time I ran for the levee board, and that is all I had to do with 
politics, and in the last election I ran Davis' campaign for mayor. 

Mr. Halley. How did you happen to manage his campaign for 
mayor ? 

Mr. Portell. It was more political arguments than anything else. 
It started out like that. Then it ended up that a bunch of young 
fellows back from the service thought we could put a mayor in. 

Mr. Halley. You ran on a reform ticket, didn't you? 

Mr. Portell. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. The previous mayor was Moerlein? 

Mr. Portell. Charles Moerlein ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Was he supposed to be playing ball with the gamblers 
and racketeers? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 147 

Mr. PoRTELL. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't that one of the issues in the campaign? 

Mr. PoRTELL. There was no issue like that. 

Mr. Halley. There wasn't? 

The Chairman. Mr. Portell, what were you trying to reform ? You 
had a reform ticket. What were you trying to clean up or reform and 
make better? 

Mr. Portell. The whole thing was, he was arguing with the alder- 
men, and it came before the newspapers, if you will check the news- 
paper, and for that reason the people were down on him more because 
of his personality than because of his ability. He was a very fine 
mayor. 

Mr. Halley. Weren't they really arguing about the fact that the 
gamblers were allowed to operate wide open in Granite City, bookies 
were functioning? 

Mr. Portell. You heard that talk on the street, but 

Mr. Halley. You are under oath hei-e, and you are not personally 
involved, and I hope you are not considering being foolish, 

Mr. Portell. I am not. 

Mr. Halley. At the moment you say something under oath that 
isn't entirely accurate, then you become personally involved. ^Vllat 
were you trying to reform, as Senator Kefauver just asked you? 

Mr. Portell. The issues of the campaign were just that we were 
touting our man. We thought we had a wonderful man. He was 
back from the service. It was more running two personalities than 
two candidates. This is a funny political picture. 

Mr. Halley. What was the issue that you were reforming ? Clean- 
ing up the town, wasn't it? 

Mr. Portell. If you will recall, they had arguments on the council 
floor concerning gambling, and we never did take a part in it. In^ 
fact, I never attended a council only about three or four council meet- 
ings in my life before the election. 

Mr. Halley. And the idea was that this gambling would all be 
cleared up under Mayor Davis, wasn't it? 

Mr. Portell. That is right. 

]Mr. Halley. Then after election you had a dispute with the mayor, 
didn't you? 

Mr. Portell. I had a lot of disputes with him. 

Mr. Halley. And you had some disputes about the gambling? 

Mr. Portell. No ; not that I recall. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever have a conversation with the mayor 
about Pioneer? 

Mr. Portell. No, I haven't. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever have a good friend of yours tell you 
something about Pioneer? 

Mr. Portell. The only thing I know about Pioneer is what I have 
read in the newspapers. That is also under oath. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have a conversation with Burnett in his office 
about Pioneer? 

Mr. Portell. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What was that conversation ? 

Mr. Portell. We were just talking back and forth about Pioneer 
News Service and that they gave service to the bookies. 

Mr. Halley. You had four bookies in town; is that right? 



148 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. PoRTELL. To my knowled<;e, I think that is right. 

IVIr. Halley. What were they ? 

]Mr. PoRTEij.. I woukhrt know for sure, 1 know about two. and tliat 
is about all I can say. 

Mr. Halley. What two do you know about? 

Mr. PoRTELL. I know there is a place called the Rex. 

Mr. Halley. Hughes ran that; is that right? 

Mr. Portell. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know Hughes ? 

]\Ir. Portell. Yes ; I have played golf with ^Ir. Hughes. 

Mr. Halley. What was the other one you know i 

]\Ir. Portell. I know the one down on State Street. 

Mr. Halley. On State Street? 

Mr. Portell. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. The one the lady runs? 

Mr. Portell. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Mrs. Marmor? 

Mr. Portell. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What other bookies do you know? 

Mr. PorteijL. One aci'oss from the bank. 

Mr. Halley. The cigar store? 

]Mr. Portell. I wouldn't know about that. 

Mr. Halley. In a cigar store ! 

Mr. Portell. Yes; they are all supposed to be in cigar stores. 

The Chairman. Is that the Edison Cigar Store across from the 
bank ? 

Mr. Portell. That is a place called the Edison Cigar Store. 

Mr. Halley. That is a bookie place, isn't it ? 

Mr. Portell. Sup]3osed to be ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Then there is that one on INIadison Aveiuie. 

Mr. Portell. That on'3 I don't know a thing about. I have heard 
about that but I don't know a thing about that one. 

Mr. Halley. There were these bookies running in town and they 
got their information from Pioneer across the river; is that right ? 

Mr. Portell. That is supposed to be right. I couldn't swear to 
anything like that. 

Mr. Halley. You were in Burnett's office just about not quite a year 
ago discussing it. 

Mr. Portell. That is right. We have discussed things like that 
lots of times, but it is more shooting the bull. 

Mr. Halley. What discussion clid you have? 

Mr. Portell. As far as I can remember, he was talking about the 
service, and he didn't know a thing about the service, and he asked 
nie if I knew anything about when the bookies got it and I hold him 
I didn't know. 

Mr. Hallet. Let's get a little more precise. Didn't you tell him 
that you knew that Pioneer telephoned to get permission from the 
mayor to run the service to these bookies ? 

Mr. Portell. If I said it, I don't remember it. 

Mr. Halley. Let me try to recall your recollection. You said some- 
thing about a wire recorder, that Pioneer had a wire recorder, and 
when tliey s])oke to the mayor they recorded it on a wire recorder. 

Ml-. Portell. No; I believe the conversation didn't go like that. I 
wouldn't know that for sure. I wouldn't know anything like that 



( 






ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 149 

Mr. Halli-:y. If a couple of fellows heard you and said they heard 
you. would they be tellinjif an untruth? 

Mr. PoRTEix. I would have to deny it because I don't know any- 
tliiufy like that. I wouldn't have any way of knowing. I don't even 
know anybody from the Pioneer News Service. 

Mr. Halley. Don't you know anybody close to Pioneer yourself? 

Mr. PORTELL. No. 

Mr. Halley. Don't you have any friends who are well acquainted 
wnth Pioneer's operation? 

ISIr. PoRTELL. No; not at all. 

INIr. Halley. None at all i 

Mr. PoRTELL. None at all. 

Mr. Halley. Just what did you say to Chief Burnett? 

Mr. PoRTELL. I don't remember that conversation exactly. We have 
had a lot of theuL It is more shooting the bull. 

]Mr. Halley. I am talking about one where there were a few of 
the aldei-men around who heard you. 

Mr. PoRTELL. I might have said a lot of things 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever have a conversation about how these 
bookies could operate in Granite City without permission from the 
chief of police or the mayor? 

]Mr. Portell. At one time they were supposed to be running, and 
we were wondering who was giving permission. We didn't know. 

Mr. Halley. You were wondering how it was allowed ? 

]Mr. Portell. We were talking, and we discussed that lots of times. 

Mr. Halley. Was anything done about it? 

]\Ir. Portell. I think Burnett was in the room. It was in his 
office. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you once say you understood that Pioneer got 
permission before they put service into a bookie? 

Mr. Portell. No; I don't remember anything like that. I don't 
know the precise date of this or anything like that. I don't know 
who was in there. We talked. I could safely say, 50 times, and there 
has been a lot of arguments. We have argued baseball, and we have 
argued politics and everything, but 

Mr. Halley. Let's get away from the precise date. Did not you 
ever hear, let's put it that way. didn't somebody tell you that Pioneer 
had insisted on getting direct permission from the mayor before they 
would allow a bookie to have wire service? 

Mr. Portell. No. 

Mr. Halley. Then they would know it wouldn't be pulled right out. 

Mr. Portell. No. 

Mr*. Halley. You never heard that ? 

Mr. Portell. I never heard that. 

Mr. Halley. You certainly never said it to anyone ? 

Mr. Portell. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. I have no other questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. White. Are you friendly with Mayor Davis now ? 

Mr. Portell. Yes, we are friendly at the present time. 

j\Ir. White. At one time you did have an argument? 

Mr. Portell. We have had a lot of arguments. Every time he 
makes an appointment or something like that there is an argument. 

The Chairmax. Do you think the law is being enforced out in your 
town and countv ? 



150 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. PoRTELL. I think we have a very good police force and I think 
the law is well enforced. I really do. 

The Chairman. Do you think Chief Vickery is a good police chief? 

Mr. PoRTELL. Burnett. 

The Chairman. Chief Burnett in Granite City, yes. 

Mr. Portell. I think he is one of the best. 

The Chairman, How about your sheriif ? 

Mr. Portell. I don't know the sheriff. 

The Chairman. What is his name? 

Mr. Portell. Dallas Harrell. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Portell. I might add that since the election I have never been 
officially connected with the mayor in any way. 

Mr. Halley . I have nothing further. 

The Chairman. If there are no other questions, you are excused. 

Mr. Portell. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Call Sheriff Harrell. 

Sheriff, will you hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
the testimony you will give this committee will be the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

]Mr. Harrell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DALLAS HAERELL, SHERIFF, MADISON COUNTY, 

ILL. 

Mr. Halley. You are the sheriff of Madison County ? 

Mr. Harrell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you been sheriff ? 

ISIr. Harrell. Since the first Monday in December of 1946. 

Mr. Halley. Sheriff, this is the subcommittee of the committee 
appointed by the United States Senate to look into crime operating 
in interstate commerce and using interstate means of communication 
in such things like bookmaking, wires, and anything else that might 
occur to you. What can you tell this committee about the crime situ- 
ation in Madison County? 

Mr. Harrell. Is there anything specific now that you want ? 

]\Ir. Halley. Is the law being enforced there ? 

Mr. Harrell. Well, in Madison County the sheriff has five depu- 
ties, and in the county outside of the city limits of the towns and vil- 
lages for the almost 4 years that I have been sheriff there hasn't 
been any gambling, no bookmaking, a little crap games outside of tile 
city limits. 

My. Halley. How about slot machines ? 

Mr. Harrell. There hasn't been any slot machines in Madison 
County, only in clubs like the Elks Club or the Eagles, the Shrine 
Club or something of that nature. Veterans of Foreign Wars, where it 
is just for the membership only, since 1938. 

Mr. Halley. Are there slot machines in the taverns ? 

Mv. Harrell. No, I just said there hadn't been any since 1938. I 
will qualify that statement in this way: During my tenure of office I 
have picked up, I believe, six that I got a tip on their being in some 
tavern. I have gotten six, as I recall. There were more than that 
picked up, but they weren't operating. There was a truck came into 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 151 

the city of Alton. It had a bunch of slot machines on it. In a build- 
ing where this truck was- parked they found some more. These were 
found by the city police of Alton and they were turned over to my 
•office. I think the number was 41. They were destroyed by me at the 
county jail after the State's attorney gave us the authority to go ahead 
and destroy them. 

Mr. Halley. What is the situation in the city? I think you were 
confining yourself to the situation outside of the towns and cities. 

Mr. Harrell. Well, there has been bookmaking and crap games in 
several of the cities in ISIadison County. I know that because the 
State's attorney, both ]Mr. Burton, who was State's attorney when I 
first went there, and Mr. Lewis, who is State's attorney at the present 
time, furnished me with information warrants, and we brought them 
in to court and they were fined, and they paid their fines. So I know 
that there was. I have never been in a bookmaking joint in my life. 
I will take that back, I did raid the i^OO Club at one time. That was 
the city of Madison. That came about in this way : The State's attor- 
ney, the sheriff, and myself had the idea to let the towns run their own 
business because of the lack of law enforcement officials in my office. 
If at any time law enforcement got out of hand we said we would 
interfere. It has been just a little better than a year ago that the 
State's attorney's house and the 200 Club were both shot up one night, 
and the newspapers over there at Granite City gave quite a report 
on it and some comment. He received a telephone call not to print 
anything any further about the 200 Club. The editor told me about 
that, and I went over there with two of my deputies one night and 
closed the 200 Club. That is the only time.^ 

The Chairman. That is one time in 4 years ? 

Mr. Harrell. That I have gone in. On two other occasions — it was 
really one occasion but it involved two places — there was — I am not 
positive about one of them because I never did get down to that one. 

1 went down to one place because I was furnished a warrant by the 
State's attorney after the 200 Club, as I recall it, was closed and then 
there were two places which sprang up in the city of Collinsville. The 
State's attorney gave me warrants for both of those places. I went 
down to one of them and closed it. While I was there one of the 
fellows who was operating this place said that the other place was 
closed but that he could get him on the telephone for me. He called 
him at a number, as I recall, in St. Louis. I told him to fold his 
place up. 

That is three times that I closed any gambling place. 
Mr. White. Was that a bingo game in Collinsville? 
Mr. Harrell. I closed that bingo game, too. That was out at the 
park. 

INIr. Halley. Did the 200 Club stay closed or did it open again ? 
Mr. Harrell. It opened again, I would say, in the neighborhood of 

2 or 3 months after that. 

Mr. Halley. Has it stayed open? 

Mr. Harrell. They have been up and down, as I recall it. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat did you find when you raided the 200 Club ? 

Mr. Harrell. There were a number of people in the building, and 
tliey had a crap game going there. This was about, I would say, at 9 
o'clock at night. As I recall it, there was a blackjack table there. 



152 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

There wasn't any bookiiijr goino; on at that time. This was at nighty 
yon see. 

The Chairman. Sheriff, as I get yon. in the cities over there in the 
corporate limits, yon don't do anything abont it unless yon feel that 
the ":eneral law has broken down ; is that the idea ? 

JVli-. Harrell. That is right. 

The Chairman. Yon feel that is beyond the jurisdiction of the 
sheriff. Do you think that is a good excuse ( 

yiv. Harrell. I am not making it for an excnse. I am merely tell- 
ing yon what the policy was. 

Tlie Chairiman. Who set the policy ? 

Mr. Harrell. I don't know that there was any particular policy 
set. AVhenever the State's attorney would give me information war- 
rants and they would come in and they were taken before the county 
court and fined. 

Mr. White. When you served those warrants, Sheriff', did you 
seize the gambling joint and break up the premises and so forth ^ 

Mr. Harrell. No, we didn't. 

Mr. White. What did you do ? 

Mr. Harrell. I am not going to be able to answer that of my own 
knowledge because all of these warrants were served by my deputies. 
So I don't know whether they were served on them directly or whether 
they were called up and told or what. I never seived anj' one of them 
myself. 

Mr. White. Is the Hyde Park Club in your territory, Sheriff? 

Mr. Harrell. Yes. 

]\Ir. White. What would you consider to be the breakdown of local 
law enforcement with respect to local gambling laws ( 

Mr. Harrell. Yon say with respect to the gambling laws. I didn't 
say anything about that. I said hnv enforcement. Whenever the 
people of the city in which these places were operating or the local 
newspapers or anybody in the county of Madison, enough of them 
thought the law enforcement had broken down, although frankly no- 
body told me to go and raid the :200 Club that time, I felt it was when 
they could call up an editor and threaten him. 

Mr. Halley. What year was that, Mr. Harrell ? 

Mr. Harrell. As I recall it, it was during the summer months of last 
year. 

Mr. Halley. What was your business before you became sheriff? 

Mr. Harrell. I worked for the Illinois revenue department. 

Mr. Halley. In what capacity? 

Mr. Harrell. As an investigator in the sales tax division. 

]Mr. Halley. For how long did yon work at that ? 

Mr. Harrell. I was with them from some time in 1948 until I took 
office as sheriff in December of 1946. 

:\rr. Halley. What did you do before 1943 ? 

Mr. Harrell. Operated a gasoline service station for abont 17 years. 

Mr. Hallp:y. What did von do with the station in 1943 ? 

Mr. Harrell. What did I do with the station in 1943? 

Mr. Hallp:y. Yes. 

INIr. Harrell. I sold gasoline. 

Mr. Halley. 1 mean did you sell the station? 

Mr. Harrell. Oh, well, the stations that I had — I never did own any 
of them. They were all stations leased from various companies. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 153 

Most of them was the Mikon Oil Co., the bio:o:est part of that time, 
ahhoiigh I operated a Texaco station for about 5 years. 

Mr. H ALLEY. Did you just give up the stations ? 

Mr. Harrell. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What did you have, a job at the gas station? 

]\Ir. Harrell. I had tlie station leased. 

Mr. Halley. You were the lessee. Did you sell the lease or did 
it simply expire ? 

]\rr. Harrell. AVhen I quit, somebody else takes it over. 

]Mr. Halley. You just quit. 

Mr. Harrell. Yes. 

]\Ir. Halley. Then you worked for 3 years for the State of Illinois? 

Mr. Harrell. Approximately ?> years. 

Mr. Halley. What was your salary while you worked for the State ? 

Mr. Harrell. Well, it started in at $210 a month, and when I left 
it was $275. 

jNIr. Halley. What is your salary as sheriff ? 

:Mr. Harrell. $4,000 a year. 

]Mr. Halley. The committee has been told that you own .a rather 
elaborate home. Is that so ? 

Mr. Harrell. Well, that depends upon a matter of o])inion. Back 
in 1939 I bought an aci'e of ground out in the country and built a cabin 
or a clubhouse or whatever you want to call it. It was a building that 
my father-in-law had used as a blacksmith shop. I tore that building 
down and built this cabin out there. Then later on I bought two more 
acres 

Mr. Halley. When did you buy the additional acres? 

Mr. Harrell. That was in 194(5 or 1947. 

iNIr. Halley. After you had become sheriff ? 

Mv. Harrell. Yes. So that would have been 1947. Let's see what 
time of year it was. Yes, that would have been in 1947. Then later 
on the boy, my son, tore the building down and started to build a 
house for himself right across the cove from where the original build- 
i]ig was. Then I built a building there 44 feet long and 26 feet wide, 
all under one roof, which I used for myself and my family to go out 
there. It is about 0I/2 miles from Edwardville. 

Mr. Halley. In the meantime you had your home in Edwardville?' 

JMr. Harrell. Xo, I lived in the sheri tf's quarters. 

Mv. Halley. Do you get free quarters ? 

]Mr. Harrell. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. In other words, you have a salary of $4,000 a year plus 
free (juarters. 

Mr. Harrell. And telephone, lights, gas, heat. 

Mr. Halley. And an automobile? 

Mr. Harrell. Well, not strictly speaking. They have three auto- 
mobiles that are equi])ped with radio, and we operate two of those at 
night. The third one is for — it is a swing car. If something should 
liappen to either one of the others, you would have this other one 
tliere to use. When it is not in use I sometimes drive that other one, 
but I have a car of my own. 

The Chairman. Sheriff, how much do j^ou have in this property 
you are talking about out on the lake? 

Mr. Harrell. How much have I sot ? 



154 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. How much do you have invested in it. 

Mr. Harrell. You mean me personally ? 

The Chairman. Yes, that is rio;ht ; your investment in the property. 

Mr. Harrell. My investment isn't too much in it. I wouldn't be 
able to say offhand because I don't know. My wife has some money 
in the property. It is in her name. The first original acre 

The Chairman. What is the total investment, yours and hers ? 

Mr. Harrell. The total investment out there would be in the 
neirrhborhood I should judge, offhand, of $10,000 or $12,000. 

The Chairman. You mean that is the cost of the house, the build- 
ing that you built, plus the acreage? 

Mr. Harrell. Yes, I think that would cover it all. 

Mr. White. Do you have your tax returns with you. Sheriff? 

Mr. Harrell. Yes [producing documents]. 

Mr. Halley. Sheriff, may we just take those returns and get them 
back to you within about 10 days ? Will that be all right ? 

Mr. Harrell. I see no reason why it wouldn't. I don't know. I 
don't want to lose them. 

Mr. Halley. You bet you don't, and I understand that. 

Mr. Harrell. Would I be given a receipt for them in case any- 
body from the internal revenue comes around ? 

Mr. White. I will give you a receipt on your subpena. 

The Chairman. All right, are there any other questions? Thank 
you. Sheriff Harrell. You are excused. 

Mr. Harrell. Thank you. 

You can determine this if you care to. It is something that won't 
show in there. A mortgage that I have on that place. Do you care to 
Ifnow anything about that? 

Mr. White. You might mention to me what it is. 

Mr. Harrell. The original mortgage is for $5,000 to the national 
bank. I think my wife told me the other day that that had been paid 
down to $3,700, but the checks and everything will show that. That 
takes the checks up to the 1st of July, you see. 

Mr. White. Thank you very much. Sheriff. 

(Witness excused.) 

The Chairman. Call Joseph Giardano. 

Mr. Giardano, will you hold up your right hand and swear that 
the testimony you give this committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Giardano. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH GIARDANO, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

Mr. White. Sit down, Mr. Giardano. How old are you, please? 

Mr. Giardano. Fifty. 

Mr. White. Your address ? 

Mr. Giardano. 4104 Begg Street. 

Mr. White. St. Louis? 

Mr. Giardano. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you have any brothers? 

Mr. Giardano. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. How many? 

Mr. Giardano. Two. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 155 

Mr. White. What are their names? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Anthony and Sam. 

Mr. White. How old is Anthony ? 

Mr. GiARDANo. He is the youngest. 

Mr. White. How old is he? 

Mr. GiARDAxo. I would say about 35. 

Mr. AVhite. How old is the other brother? 

Mr. GiARDAXO. About 42 or 43. 

Mr. White. What do you do for a living, Mr. Giardano? 

The Chairman. Mr. Giardano, he has to hear what you say. 

Mr. GiARDAXO. I have been sick. I have been laid up with my heart 
for about 4 months and a half. 

Mr. White. You have a tavern ? 

Mr. Giardano. At Sixth and Market ; 525 Market Street. 

Mr. White. Wliat is the worth of that tavern, Mr. Giardano? 

Mr. Giardano. You mean what I got in it ? 

Mr. White. How nuich is the tavern worth, what could you sell 
it for ? 

Mr. Giardano. What I could sell it for? I don't know, maybe 
$15,000, $16,000, $17,000. 

Mr. White. Do you have any partners in it ? 

Mr. Giardano. No. It belongs to my wife. 

Mr. White. "Wliere did you acquire the money with which to buy 
the tavern ^ 

Mr. Giardano. I have been in business for the last 4 years. 

Mr. White. For the last what? 

Mr. Giardano. For the last 4 years. I have had a tavern on the 
Natural Bridge, 4104 Natural Bridge. I was there about 7 months. 
Then from there 

Mr. White. You started in the tavern business about 4 months ago? 

Mr. Giardano. No, no, 4 years ago, a little over 4 years. 

Mr. White. What was your original investment there ? 

Mr. Giardano. There it was I think around $6,500, $6,000, some- 
thing like that. 

Mr. White. Hasn't the saloon business depreciated rather than 
improved ? 

Mr. Giardano. I guess I made more than that. 

Mr. White. Have you ever been arrested? 

Mr. Giardano. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. For what ? 

Mr. Giardano. Suspect, but I haven't since I have been in business. 

Mr. White. Have you ever been convicted of anything? 

Mr. Giardano. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What was that? 

Mr. Giardano. I was across the river, for robbery. 

Mr. White. How much time did you do? 

Mr. Giardano. I did around almost 8 years. 

Mr. White. Where did you do it ? 

Mr. Giardano. In Chester, 111. 

Mr. White. When did you fall ? What was the year that you were 
arrested ? 

Mr. Giardano. I believe it was around 1928. 

G8958 — 51— lit. 4a 11 



156 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. White. Then you got out about- 



Mr. GiARDANO. I have been out around 11 years. 

Mr. White. When did you get out ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. xiround 1936 or 1937. 

Mr. White. About 11 years you have been out? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. You didn't get out until 1939 then. 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes. 

Mr. White. You must have done more time; you must have done 
around 11 years. 

Mr. GiARDANO. Eight years ; something like that. 

Mr. White. Did you have more than one con\dction ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. That is all. 

Mr. White. You have been out about 11 years. 

Mr. GiARDANO. I would say around 11 or 12 years. 

Mr. White. Did you have any money when you got out of jail ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I had a few dollars. 

]Mr. White. Where did you get your original investment to go into 
the tavern business? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I started, I went to work, I w^as w^orking at Luciana, 
Mo., and I worked at the small-arms plant. I saved my money. I 
was making around $18 or $20 a day as steam fitter. 

Mr. White. Are you married ? 

]\Ir. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Children? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. White. How many ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Two. 

Mr. White. Where were you born? 

Mr. GiARDANO. St. Louis. 

Mr. White. Were both your brothers born in St. Louis too? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you ever hear of an organization known as the 
Mafia ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

Mr. White. You never heard of it ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. I read of it in the papers. 

Mr. White. Did you ever hear of the Greenies? 

Mr. GiARDANO. According to the newspapers. 

Mr. White. Did you ever hear of them aside from the newspapers? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I heard of them just reading the newspapers, 
knowing they call them Greenies. 

Mr. White. Did you ever know a man named Tom Buffa? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. Tom Buffa? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. GiARDANO. He was a neighbor of us. I live on Eighth and Begg, 
lived there almost 20 years. We used to live there. 1129 North Begg 
Street. 

Mr. White. Did you know him well ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No; not well, just to see him. 

Mr. White. Did you ever have any business with him? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know a man named John Vitale? 



ORGANIZED GRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 157 

Mr. GiARDANo. Yes ; I know him. Raised around the neighborhood. 

Mr. White. Hangs around the neigliborhood ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I say he was raised around the neighborhood. 

Mr. White. What does Vitale do for a living? 

Mr. GiAHDANo. I don't know. 

Mr. White. What do your brothers do for a living ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Tony is in juke-box business. 

Mr. White. Aren't you connected with that juke-box business too? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No. 

ISIr. AVhite. Is that what they call the Anthony Amusement Co. ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Is it named after his first name, Anthony ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What partners does he have in that? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I don't know. There are supposed to be two or three 
partners. 

Mr. Whiit':. Who are they supposed to be ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I think Tony Lopipelo. 

Mr. White. And who is the other ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. And I believe Spinelli. 

Mr. White. Spinelli ? John Spinelli ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No. Spinelli is all I know. 

Mr. White. Who else ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. That is all. 

Mr. White. Does Vitale have a piece of that juke-box business? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Not that I know of. 

Mr. White. Does Buster Wortman or the Wortman family have any 
connection with it? 

Mr. GiAiujANO. I don't know. 

Mr. White. Did you ever work for your brother in the juke-box 
business ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you ever use your influence to place any of these 
machines in any location ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Wliere is your brother now, by the way ? 

Mr. GiARDANO, I don't know. Sometimes I don't see him for a 
month. 

Mr. White. When did you see him the last time? 

Mr. GiARDANO. The last time I seen him was about 3 weeks ago. 
You see I am down at that tavern, a night club there, and I have been 
going down there late in the last 2 months because I was laid up in 
bed for 4 months. 

]\rr. White. Do the police come ai'ound and ask you where v^nr 
brother is? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

Mr. AViiiTE. Does anybody ever ask you where your brother was 
in the last 5 days aside from myself? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

Mr. White. If they had asked you you wouldn't know where he 
was ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. That is all I know, that he is at home. I mean — just 
like I say I don't see him sometimes for a month. I am down at the 
tavern and I have a wife and kids to take care of. 



158 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chaikmax. Do you have any bookmaking in \-our tavern? 
Mr. GriARDANO. No, sir. 
The Chairman. Or gambling ? 
Mr. GiARDANo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know Mr. Molasky? 
Mr. GiAiiDANO. No, sir. 

The Ci [AIRMAN. Did you ever have any dealings with Pioneer News 
Service ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you know Charles Binaggio in Kansas City? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You never saw him ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Or Gargotta? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No. 

The Chairman. Have you ever been out to Kansas City ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. I was in Kansas City when my brother was there 
when I came out, to see my brother. 

The Chairman. Do you know Buster Wortman ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You never saw him ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever work for any of these bookies around 
here ^ 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir. I don't know anything about bookies. I 
am telling you the truth, I don't. 

The Chairman. You have been investigated for morphine 
handling? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Sir? 

The Chairman. Did the morphine agents investigate you? 

Mr. Glvrdano. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Have you ever been picked up in connection with a 
narcotics charge? 

Mr. GiARDANO. No, sir; never. 

Mr. White. Your brother served time on narcotics, didn't he? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. But you never have? 

Mr. GiARDANO. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Wiiich brother served time ? 

Mr. GiARDANO. Sam. 

The Chairman. Where is he now ? 

Mr. Giardano. He is home, working. He has been working. He 
is sick. 

The Chairman. What does he do ? 

Mr. Giardano. I don't knov^' what he is doing now. 

Mr. White. Does he have any visible means of support ? 

Mr. Giardano. Does he have what ? 

Mr. White. Does he work ? 

Mr. Giardano. He has been working. 

The Chairman. All right. That is all for you. Thank you. You 
are excused. 

Call Mr. John Mohler. 



I 
I 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 159 

Mr. Mohler, will you be swoi-n ? Do you solemnly swear the testi- 
mony you will give this committee will be the whole truth and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. MoiiLER. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN MOHLER, GENERAL ATTORNEY FOR MIS- 
SOURI, SOUTHWESTERN BELL TELEPHONE CO. 

Mr. White. What are you with the telephone company? 

Mr. MoHLER. I am the general attorney for Missouri. That is the 
Southwestern Bell Telephone Co. 

Mr. White. Mr. Mohler, you and I have had a number of conversa- 
tions in the past few weeks concerning the relationship or the busi- 
ness of the telephone company with various suspected gamblers 

Mr. MoHLER. Yes. 

Mr. White. The Pioneer News Service, and so on. Can you tell 
us about an episode which occurred approximately a year ago in which 
there was a disconnection of telephone service to the Pioneer Co. and 
wherein one Beverly Brown had some conversations with officials of 
the tele]jhone company in connection with a telegram? 

Mr. Mohler. Yes, Colonel. You recall that my recollection was 
rather vague, and I asked you to tell me what you knew about it in 
order to refresh my recollection so far as possible, and I have done so. 
I had supposed that Mr. Nouss, who is still away, unfortunately, but 
who is expected back shortly — he was delayed, by the way, in return- 
ing from his vacation because of illness — my recollection is this : That 
Beverly Brown came in to the office to see Mr. Nouss. I don't believe 
that I was in Mr. Nouss' office at any time that Mr. Brown was in 
there, and to that extent my information may be hearsay. I don't 
know that this committee is interested in any technical distinctions 
at all. 

Mr. White. Just information. 
INlr. Mohler. Mr. Brown had a telegram which I believe I saw, and, 
if my recollection is correct, it was signed American Telephone & Tele- 
graph Co., which led us to believe that that was not an authentic 
telegram from the American Telephone & Telegraph Co. We would 
expect under all circumstances that any communication from the 
American Telephone & Telegraph Co. would be signed by the name of 
the person sending it and his title with the company. That telegram 
was directed to Bev Brown, and it was to the general effect that he 
would be well advised to get in touch with Mr. So and So, whose 
name I do not remember, representing the American Telephone & 
Telegraph Co., who would be at the Coronado Hotel the following day 
or soon. 

I told you, Colonel, at the time of our discussion about that tele- 
gram that our belief at the time had been that Beverly Brown, who 
knew Henry Nouss, and had known him for a great many years, was 
undertaking to indicate to Henry Nouss that, if he pursued his resolu- 
tion to take out the Pioneer telephone at that time, he might be in 
trouble with the American Telephone & Telegraph Co., which of course 
is the owner of the Southwestern Bell Telephone Co. 

Nouss paid no attention to that, and neither did I. We can't be at all 
certain that the purpose of Mr. Brown's display of that telegi-am was 



160 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

in an effort to influence Nouss to take a course contrary to the course 
that he would otherwise take. 

I have since been advised and, as a matter of fact, I think that, dur- 
ing the trial of the Pioneer case, the hearings in the Pioneer case before 
Judge Nangle, that Bev Brown and Morris Shenker, his lawyer, ad- 
vised me that this man at the Coronado Hotel, whom they had got in 
contact with, had indicated to them that for a certain consideration 
or for some consideration he could obtain for them 18 or 20 or two 
dozen or I don't know how many telephones for them. Shenker told 
me recently, refreshed my recollection of what he had told me at the 
time, that this man was a con man who was trying to get money from 
Bev Brown on the re]:>resentation that he could get telephone service 
for him. I think that Morris Shenker told me that he got this man into 
his office. At any rate, he had seen him either at the Coronado Hotel 
or at his office, and his belief was that Brown had been convinced that 
he was a representative of the American Telephone & Telegraph Co. 
and that Brown would have been taken, strange to say, by a con man 
if Shenker had not intervened. 

Mr. "White. That was at variance from the original impression that 
you received, that it was intended to make an impression on Mr. Nouss 
in order to affect his judgment. 

Mr. MoiiLER. That was our first impression. 

Mr. White. Mr. Shenker explained it entirely differently. 

Mr. MonLER. I don't know. My recollection is that over in Judge 
Nangle's courtroom there was some considerable discussion about that 
telegram between Brown and Nouss and Shenker and perhaps Mr. 
Molasky. I think he was present in the courtroom that day. Nouss I 
am sure tells me that I met Molasky in the hearing room during the 
course of that trial, and I seem to have a recollection of that, but I was 
busy representing the company's position in that trial at the time, and 
I am not sure that I paid too much attention to it, but if you want the 
impression that I now have, I would think that the explanation that 
was given by Shenker is correct. 

Mr. White. That was just one point we wanted to determine. Mr. 
IMohler. 

Another thing that we would like to have your comment upon, if 
you feel you are able to, is that during the course of our inquiry here 
we have received some not exactly complaints but comments from 
the law-enforcement agencies to the effect that they didn't feel the 
telephone company was sympathetic to their efforts and that in fact 
the telephone company might be presumed to be more sympathetic 
to the law violators. 

Do you have any comment on that ? 

Mr. MoHLER. I think any suggestion of want of cooperation is 
unfair. I have heard those reports myself. Colonel, and I presume 
we are talking about the same ones. I liave heard that Captain Wren 
or Lieutenant Wren, Joe Wren as we call him around here, has crit- 
icized the cooperation that he was getting from this telephone corn- 
pan v back in New Jersey. 

Mr. White. W^ren is the head of the gambling squad, I think. 

Mr. MoHLER. That is my understanding of it, too. I don't know 
him. I would regard that charge as entirely unwarranted. I don't 
believe that charge would be confirmed by the chief of police or the 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 161 

chief of detectives here in the city of St. Lrniis. I don't know what 
they wonld say, but I don't believe that to be true. 

The Chairman. JNIr. Mohler, let me ask this. In some places operat- 
ing in this section the wire service, the Western Union wire service, 
seems to have been cut off. So they are now using the telephone 
service to get their bookie information. 

Mr. MoiiLER. You are speaking of the disconnection of the Western 
Union tickers late last week? 

The Chairman. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. MoiiLER. I presume they are doing that, Senator, if they are 
still in operation. I don't know about that. That could only be done 
by making a standard toll call, a long-distance call such as you might 
make if you would go to any telephone here in town. If they are doing 
that we haven't picked it up yet. 

The Chairman. For instance, some place across the river where Mr. 
Carroll does some operation, Mr. Mooney's place 

Mr. MoHLER. I am not familiar with those places, but go ahead. 

The Chairman. I am just telling you an example. 

Mr. Mohler. All right. 

The Chairman. They have a large operation with 25 or 26 people 
working there, and the Western Union ticker has been cut off and they 
are now using telphones. They have quite a number of telephones. 
What would be required to get action on the part of the phone com- 
pany to disconnect that service? 

Mr. Mohler. Senator, as a part of our filed tariffs both before the 
Federal Communications Commission, as you no doubt know, and 
before the Missouri Public Service Commission, we have represented 
that we would disconnect telephone service upon notice from any law-- 
enforcement officer that our service was being used for illegal pur- 
poses, and, as you well know, that was the origin of our disconnection 
of the Pioneer News telephones in 1947, when we had notice by tele- 
gram from the Governor and attorney general of the State of Missouri 
that our service was being illegally used by Pioneer News. 

The Chairman. They are still using telephone service. 

Mr. Mohler. That is under an injunction of the Circuit Court of St. 
Louis. That injunction was, we might say, appealed. Are you a 
lawyer. Senator? I am sorry I don't know. 

The Chairman. I was before I got into politics, Mr. Mohler. 

Mr. Mohler. I don't know that I have ever claimed to be a lawyer, 
but when Judge Nangle issued an injunction in the Circuit Court of 
St. Louis, that was taken to the Supreme Court of Missouri by the 
attorney general on a writ of prohibition to prohibit the circuit judge 
from acting further. The result of that was an opinion and judgment 
of the Supreme Court of Missouri prohibiting Judge Nangle from 
proceeding further. The mandate of that court has never come down 
to the Circuit Court of the City of St. Louis and has been stayed by 
the Supreme Court of Missouri to allow an appeal or an application 
for a writ of certiorari to the Supreme Court of the United States. 
The mandate is still stayed, so as far as I know, and my judgment as 
a lawyer may be bad on this, but so far as I know, that injunction is 
still in effect. 

The Chairman. All right, sir. 

I believe that is all unless you have some questions. 



162 ORGANIZED CRIAIE IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE ; 

Mv. White. One other question, Mr. Mohler. You are acquainted 
Avith a fellow by the name of Louis "Red'" Smith? 

Mr. MoHiJiR. Yes; I am. 

Mr. AVhite. In your acquaintance with him have you ever been 
given any reason to believe that he was connected with the Pioneer 
News Service in any way? 

Mr. MoiiLER. I have never been given any reason to believe that he 
was connected with them as an employee or as having any financial 
stake in that business. He has talked to me concerning certain of the 
affairs of the Pioneer News Service from time to time, and he has told 
me that his interest was a purely personal interest because of a friend- 
ship with Bev Brown. 

Mr. White. To some extent he did act as a representative of the 
Pioneer in discussing business matters between the Pioneer Co. and 
the telephone company. 

Mr. IMoHLER. He has talked to me about the business of Pioneer as 
it related to the telephone service; yes. 

Mr. White. Did he ever also talk to you about the business between 
the telephone company and the Hyde Park Club? 

Mr. MoHLER. Yes ; he did at one time. He gave as his explanation 
the same reason. He said that — is there a John Connors over there, 
or John Connor? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. MoHLER. I don't know the man at the Hyde Park Club. He 
told me that both he and Bev Brown had' befriended him at a time 
when friendship meant something to him. 

jNIr. White. At any rate, in at least two instances he did seem to be 
sufliciently acquainted with the operations of Pioneer and Hj'de Park 
so tliat he could undertake to transact business for them. 

Mr. Mohler. Yes. 

Mr. White. As I recall, on one occasion when the telephone company 
was somewhat worried about the use their phones were being put to 
in the Hj^de Park Club, he undertook to make an investigation of some 
kind. 

Mr. MoHLER. Yes; we called him about that. 

Mr. White. Didn't he then at a later date say on his own authority 
or responsibility or something of that sort it would be all right to take 
certain steps with regard to this telephone service? 

Mr. MoiiLER. In order to make this clear, Colonel. I think I had 
better tell a little story on that. It won't take long. 

We had called him about taking a couple of telephones out up at 
the Hyde Park Club, My recollection is that, although my under- 
standing is they were large operators, they had only four telephone 
lines into that place, and the Attorney General of Illinois had talked 
to us about their operations there. We were a little skeptical about 
whether our telephones were being used illegally or not. We got in 
touch with Smith and asked him to find out about that. He told us 
he didn't know much about it, but it was his friend who ran that club 
and he would go see him and report back to us. We had made the 
suggestion that we would like to take two of those out of there. 
He came back and rejiorted to us that no bets were made over those 
telephones, and no employee would be allowed to remain in the 
eni])lovment of the club if he accepted a bet over the tele])hone. We 
don't like to observe on customers' telephone lines, but Ave still were 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 163 

a little skeptical and asked if it would be all right with the Hyde 
Park Club for us to make observations on those lines to determine if 
bets were beincr made over them, and he then said that as a result of 
what he had been told over there, he would accept it on his owji 
responsibility for ns to make those observations. 

Mr. White. Mr. Mohler, during- that observation, did you deter- 
mine whether or not any racing information was coming in to the 
Hyde Park Club from any other place i 

Mv. I\IoriLER. Colonel, I didn't make those observations, and I have 
never understood that there was any information concerning races 
coming in. The fact was at that time they didn't want the two tele- 
phones removed that we would have liked to take out because it was 
shortly before Xew Year's and at New Year's bowd football games are 
played. They told us they needed those telephones for the purpose 
of obtaining information coming from all over the country respecting 
the various football teams who were competing in the bowl games. 
That was not race-horse information. I don't know what our ob- 
servers might have found on that, but the observers that we had on 
there with their consent reported to us that there were no bets being 
made over the telephone. 

The Chairman. JNIr. Mohler, I told the press if they would come 
at 5 : 30 we would take them. 

Mr. White. I think we have finished. 

The Chairman. Any questions ? 

Mr. Hallet. No. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Mohler. 

Mr. INIoHLER. Thank you. 

The Chairman. The committee will be in recess until 6 : 30 this 
evening. 

(Wliereupon, at 5: 35 p. m. the committee recessed until 6: 30 p. m. 
the same day.) 

EVENING SESSION 

(Whereupon, at 6 : 30 p. m., the committee reconvened, pursuant to 
the taking of the afternoon recess.) 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Call Mayor Connor, please. 

Mr. CosTELLO. This is Mayor Connor, Senator. My name is Costello. 

The Chairman. I am glad to see you. You are the attorney? 

We are sorry we have had such a long day here, Mayor, but you 
wanted to come to town anyway, did you not? You always like to 
come over to St. Louis, do you not ? 

Mayor Connor, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will 
give before the committee will be the whole truth and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Connor. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN T. CONNOR, MAYOR, EAST ST. LOUIS, ILL., 
ACCOMPANIED BY R. E. COSTELLO, OF CRAMER, CAMPBELL, COS 
TELLO & WIECHERT, EAST ST. LOUIS, ILL. 

Mr. Halley. You are mayor of East St. Louis ? 
Mr. Connor. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you been mayor ? 
Mr. Connor. Going on 12 years. 



164 ORGAlSnZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

]Mr. Halley. IMaj'or, you know in general that this committee has 
been interested in law enforcement as connected with crimes involving 
interstate transactions, and naturally bookmaking is one such crime. 
Could you tell the committee about the situation in East St. Louis 
with reference to bookmaking? 

Mr. Connor. For the last several years it has practically been 
cleaned up. We have a few places that we call sneak books. They 
are not operating regularly. That has been going on now for several 
years. 

Mr. White. What places are those, Mr. Mayor ? 

iNIr. Connor. The ones that are sneak books ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. Connor. I wouldn't know offhand, Mr. White. I don't have 
that information. The reason I say that is that those places have 
come to my attention, and I have turned it over to the police 
department. 

Mr. White. Very frankly, there is no point in dissembling, that I 
can see. We have made a very casual inquiry in the past few days, and. 
we have discovered the existence of specifically four or five good-sized 
bookmaking operations that, when visited by our investigators, did 
not have the appearance of being a sneak operation or a casual opera- 
tion but, on the contrary, were rather elaljorate, well-fitted-out places. 

For example, in jDarticular the establishment run by Mr. Carroll 
and Mr. Mooney at 318 Missouri Avenue, where they employed 21 
persons, had a Western Union ticker, a loud-speaker, and I think 8 
telephones in the place. That is one of the biggest bookmakers operat- 
ing in the Middle West. According to the evidence available, that has 
been running without interruption for a good man}" years. 

We are curious to know on what basis those places continue to 
run, and what the attitude is of the city officials ancl the police toward 
those places. 

Mr. Connor. As far as Carroll's place, all we know about that is 
that he makes set-up prices. 

Mr. White. Makes what? 

Mr. Connor. Prices for such as the Kentucky Derby and other 
events. 

Mr. White. How about Mr. Mooney ? 

The Chairman. Let us see, where is INIr. Carroll's place? You say 
he makes those bets. I understood he did not have any place except 
Mr. Mooney's. 

Mr. Connor. I don't know Mr. INIooney and never heard of him 
until I read it in the paper the other clay. 

The Chairman. Where is Carroll's headquarters? 

Mr. Connor. I think Carroll is supposed to be at 318 Missouri 
Avenue. 

Mr. White. Three hundred and eighteen Missouri Avenue is the 
place where we served a subpena, and it would be obvious to your 
newest policeman that that was more than just a price-fixing estab- 
lishment. 

To your knowledge, has anyone ever entered those premises and 
made an inspection to see what was going on there ? 

Mr. Connor. No, sir. 

The Chairman. The evidence, Mr. INIayor. about Mooney's place, 
out of which Carroll operates, is that they have a big board where they 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 165 

write the results of races, just like a stock exchange, ^\iih. a Western 
Union ticker, a whole battery of telephones, and 21 people employed 
in one office, and I think the cAddence was 5 or 6 in an adjacent office. 
They call in bets from all over the United States and place them there. 

Mr. Halley. Over $10,000 worth a day. 

The Chairman. I think the closest estimate was $16,000 to $20,000 
a day. Then, that people even banked with the outfit, that is, they 
leave a deposit of money and bet against their deposit. It is a very 
sizable and systematic operation. 

I do not know where Mr. Carroll fixes his odds. I suppose he does 
it in that office there, but the testimony we had was that that is a very 
large and substantial, as Mr. White said, one of the biggest operations 
in the ^Midwest. 

Mr. Connor. Personally, I wouldn't know. I never was in the 
place and had no occasion to go in there. The only thing, as I said 
before, all I do know about it is what I read in the newspapers, espe- 
cially around the Kentucky Derby, that he set up certain prices on 
different horses. 

Mr. White. To continue, then, during this same 1-day period, this 
very casual inquiry of ours, which was directed not at finding book- 
makers, but at subpenaing people whom we believed to be connected 
with bookmaking operations, developed in that one block on Missouri 
Avenue, at least between the 300 and 400 block, there were four places 
operating. One place was Goldberg, directly across the street from 
318, Charles Goldberg, I believe the name is. There was no door or any 
other impediment to the entrance of a patron of the saloon or to a 
policeman who might happen to stroll in. There was a Western 
Union ticker operating in there, and a board with a place for the 
results to be posted. There was a number of tables and chairs where 
presumably the patrons would sit and drink while they were making 
bets on the races. In other words, there is no question in our minds, 
from a most casual inquiry, that bookmaking is practically mimolested 
in the city of East St. Louis. 

I think we must be further frank enough to say that we again 
having been here a very short time, we have been bombarded from all 
sides with stories and allegations that the reason bookmaking flour- 
ishes there is because it is protected by the city officials. 

We are curious to know whether or not that is true. We have been 
been trying very hard to get Mr. English, the police commissioner, to 
appear before us, because we thought he would be the one responsible 
official who could give us some factual information : but Mr. English 
has obviously evaded service of this committee's subpena and does not 
desire to appear here. I make that statement without any qualifica- 
tions. He is evading service. That, of course, supports my suspicion 
that these allegations might be true. 

Mr. Connor. The reason I say about some of these sneak books, I 
know here several years ago we closed what we termed "the major 
books" over there, and these places hop up today and are probably 
knocked off tomorrow, and then they come back up again. 

Gentlemen, we have a police force over there of only 60 men, and 
they are on three 8-hour shifts. We haven't got the finances. We need 
80 men, according to our population figures. 

Mr. White. Did you ever call for assistance from the sheriff or the 
State police in suppressing any of these gambling operations? 



166 ORGANIZED CRIME IK INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. CoNXOR. You see, we have the commission form of goverimient 
over there. I am only one of five. I am mayor and finance com- 
missioner tot^ether. Each department head is responsible for his 
respective department. I can't tell them. I call their attention, but 
I can't make them. 

Mr. White. You are the executive of the city, though. 

Mr. Connor. That is right. 

Mr. White. And as such, you do appoint the police commissioner, 
do 3'ou not ? 

Mr. Connor. No ; I do not. 

Mr. White. You nominate him, do you not ? 

Mr. Connor. What? 

Mr. White. You nominate him, do you not ? 

Mr. Connor. Oh, no. He is elected by the people. 

Mr. White. Police Commissioner English is elected by the people? 

Mr. Connor. Surely. He is elected as commissioner. 

The Chairman. You mean after the election you divide up the 
functions? 

Mr. Connor. We caucus, that is right. 

The Chairman. Does he run, saying he is running for police 
commissioner ? 

Mr. Connor. Oh, no. 

The Chairman. He just runs for commissioner? 

Mr. Connor. He just runs for city commissioner. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio divides the responsibility? Do you do it in a 
caucus ? 

Mr. Connor. That is right. 

Mr. White. What explanation do you find in your mind for the 
peculiar conduct of Mr. English in evading the subpena of this 
committee ? 

]\rr. Connor. I can't answer that, Mr. AVhite. 

Mr. White. I am not asking you to read his mind, but I am asking 
you to give your explanation of how it appears to you. 

Mr. Connor. I tell you, we have council meetings every Wednes- 
day, and sometimes for 2 weeks he doesn't show up. 

Mr. White. That is a little bit different. It isn't as though 

Mr. Connor. I can't answer that question, because I have not got 
nny control over him any more than I would have making him come 
in to a council meeting, and there have been meetings that we would 
like to have had him there, but he has been out of town. 

Mr. White. You see, what has happened here now is that that has 
cast a serious reflection on the whole administration of the municipal 
authorities there. There is bookmaking going on wide open. You, 
as the mayor, as I presume most mayors, have some authority with 
respect to the police department. The newspapers and the towns- 
I^eople and many others complain about it. Nothing is done. We 
advise the police commissioner that he is wanted for an interview with 
this committee, and he immediately makes himself impossible to find. 

You might call that to the attention of your fellow commissioners 
next Wednesday, and I think they might agree that it is putting every- 
one concerned in a very unenviable position. 

Mr. Connor. I am here. I told you I would be here, and I was 
here since 20 minutes to 10 this morning. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 167 

Mr. White. I don't know wliether I would have had trouble finding 
you, or not. I have no way of knowing. 

Mr. CoxxoR. No; you wouldn't. 

Mr. Hallfa-. How does that police force function when Mr. English 
is away for these protracted periods? 

Mr. CoxxoR. His subordinates. 

Mr. Halley. Who is in charge? 

Mr. CoxxoR. He has different ones. There is a desk sergeant, a 
chief of police, the acting chief now. Our chief is laid up due to 
illness. . 

Mr. Halley. You do have a chief of police? 

Mr. CoxxoR. Acting chief. 

Mr. Halley. What is his name? 

Mr. CoxxoR. George Dowling. 

Mr. Halley. Is he the active head of the police force when he is 
not laid up ? 

Mr. CoxxoR. The police department ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know JNIr. Molasky? 

Mr. CoxxoR. Who? 

Mr. Halley. Do you know William Molasky? 

Mr. CoxxoR. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever met him ? 

Mr. CoxxoR. No. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know Carroll ? 

Mr. CoxxoR. I know him when I see him ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever spoken to him ? 

Mr. C^oxxoR. Casually, just bidding him the time of day. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been to his home? 

Mr. CoNxoR. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Has he ever been to your home ? 

Mr. CoxxoR. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever had a meal together, you and Carroll? 

Mr. CoxxoR. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you see him at the club ? 

Mr. CoxxoR. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you meet him ? 

JMr. CoxxoR. The last time I saw him, I think it was about a year 
and a half, maybe '1 years ago, out at the Chase Hotel one night going 
into the dining room. He was sitting out in the lobby. I just bid 
him the time of dav. 



M 

Mr 

M 

M 

Mr 

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Mr 

Mr 

Mr 

Mr 

Mr 



Halley. Do you know Bev Brown? 

CoxxoR. I know him when I see him. 

Halley. Do you know him any more than just casually? 

CoxxoR. That is all. 

Halley. Have you ever eaten a meal with him ? 

CoxxoR. No, sir. 

Halley. How about Gully Owen? 

CoxxoR. I knew him the same. 

Halley. You had no further contact ? 

CoxxoR. No, sir. 

Halley. No social contact? 

CoxxoR. No, sir. 



Mr. Halley. Do you know Young Brown? 



168 ORG.\XIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Connor. I just know him when I see him. 

Mr. Halley. Will Brown? 

Mr. Connor. I just know him when I see him. 

Mr. Halley. Again, you have had no contacts with him? 

Mr. Connor. No. 

Mr. White. Are you acquainted with Buster Wortman? 

Mr. Connor. I know of him. 

Mr. White. Have you ever seen him? 

Mr. Connor. Surely. 

Mr. White. Met him ? 

Mr. Connor. Surely. 

Mr. White. Have you ever had dinner with him ? 

Mr. Connor. No. 

Mr. White. Drink with him ? 

Mr. Connor. No. 

jVIr. White. Under what circumstances did you meet him ? 

Mr. Connor. He was native born over there, born and raised in 
East St. Louis. 

Mr. White. I say, under what circumstances did you meet him ? 

Mr. Connor. Just seeing him on the street. 

The Chairman. What is he doing now, Mr. Mayor? 

Mr. Connor. I couldn't answer that question. Senator. I don't 
know. In fact, he doesn't live in East St. Louis. He lives in 
Collinsville. 

Mr. White. Doesn't he have a couple of business enterprises there, 
a couple of bars ? 

Mr. Connor. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Doesn't he own the Paddock Bar there ? 

Mr. Connor. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Who does own that? 

Mr. Connor. A fellow by the name of Padgett. 

Mr. White. So if Wortman or his brother told me that they owned 
it, they would be lying, is that correct? 

Mr. Connor. Surely it would be correct. My application shows 
Padgett as the owner. 

Mr. White. Who owns the Terrace Bar ? 

Mr. Connor. A fellow by the name of Roy Dowling was the last. 

Mr. White. Any relation to Elmer Dowling? 

Mr. Connor. Oh, no. 

Mr. White. We want to talk to Mr. English. We are not going to 
have the opportunity to do it today, but we will be back. I will be 
back, anyway. I wish that you would try to use your influence, such 
as you have, in persuading Mr. English to get out from under the bed, 
•or wherever he is hiding. 

Mr. Connor. I would be only too glad to cooperate in every way. 

Mr. White. Just for the record and for your information, I want 
io say that I went to the police station to find Commissioner English, 
in the very proper, normal manner that I shoidd, since he is the police 
commissioner. I was told he was not in. I asked for his telephone 
number. It was given to me by the desk sergeant. I called his home, 
identified myself over the telephone, and having previously identified 
myself to the police sergeant, as an investigator for this committee; his 
wife said that he would be home in 1.5 minutes. I said that I would 
drive out there, that it was urgent and important that I speak to him. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN tNTERSTATE COMMEBOE 169 

When I arrived there, there was a car in the driveway with a man's 
hat in the back' of it. I rang the bell and was told by Mrs. English 
that her husband was not at home, that she expected him momentarily. 
I said I would wait, I gave her my card. I said in case I did miss 
him it was urgent and imperative that I get in touch with him. 

I did wait for about 15 minutes, and no one entered or left the house. 
T went on on other business and called back half an hour later, and she 
■said he had not returned. I asked if they planned to leave town 
•over the week end or anything of that sort, and she said no. I then 
went back half an hour later, and she denied that he was there. I 
left my telephone number at my hotel and an office in the daytime 
where I could be reached, and I had no response. 

The next morning I telephoned early and was advised by the maid, 
apparently, that the whole family had departed suddenly late the 
night before. 

I think that is a clear-cut case of evasion of a subpena by an im- 
portant public official, and I think the officials of your city should 
know about it. We are taking this means of informing you so that 
jou can inform other people. 

The inference that I draw, and that of most people, would be that 
Mr. English has something to conceal with respect to organized crime 
in the city of East St. Louis. Otherwise, it would be his duty to appear 
here. 

Mr. Connor. Well, I can say in behalf of myself and the entire city 
•council, I know there is no organized crime over there. We have had 
a standing order for over 20 years to arrest hoodlums on sight, and I 
think we have done a pretty good job up to now of keeping East St. 
Louis clear of those people. 

Mr. WiiFTE. With the possible exception of Buster Wortman. 

Mr. Connor. He has not done anything wrong around East St. 
Louis. If he has done it other places, then it is up to some other law 
enforcing body to take care of it other than the city of East St. Louis. 
If they make a complaint to us, we will handle the situation, provided 
"we get it in the right and proper form. 

Mr. White. Mr. Mayor, did you ever make the statement to news- 
papermen that you considered Buster Wortman an asset to the com- 
munity, in that he prevented outside hoodlums from coming in there? 

Mr. Connor. I made that statement? 

]\Ir. White. I asked if you did. 

Mr. Connor. I did not. 

Mr. White. Did you bring your records, your financial records? 

Mr. Connor. Yes, sir. 

The Chairjian. Mr. Mayor, would it inconvenience you if you left 
those with us? Mr. White will be here next week, and he will get 
them back to you. 

Mr. White. Just leave them in the original package. 

The Chairman. Mr. Costello, we will o:et them back to you. 

Mr. Costello. My address is 606-618 First National Bank Building, 
East St. Louis, 111., and my firm is Cramer, Campbell, Costello & 
Wiechert. 

The Chairman. Mayor Connor, how large is East St. Louis? 

Mr, Connor. The last census gives us 81,750. 

The Chairman. Mayor, your position is full time ? 

Mr. Connor. Yes, sir. 



170 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. How iimcli is your salary? 

Mr. Connor. Seven thousand dolhirs a year. 

The Chairman. Are 5'ou in any other business? 

Mr. Connor. No, sir. 

The Chairman. What were you in before you got to be mayor ? 

Mr. Connor. I was 16 years conunissioner before I was elected 
mayor. I have been 28 years, all told, in public ofhce. I was rail- 
roading for 20 years with the Pennsylvania before I got elected in 1923. 

The Chairman. How old are you now, sir? 

Mr. Connor. Sixty-one. 

The Chairman. Thank you very nuich, Mayor Connor. You are 
excused. I am sorry we kept you so long. 

Mr. Connor. That is all right, Senator. 

Mr. White. I will get those records back to you next week. 

Mr. CosTELLO. If there is anything you might want, Mr. White, in 
connection with the Mayor, don't hesitate to call on me. Of course, 
he will be there all the time. 

The Chairman. Call Mr. Schneider, please. 

]\Ir. Schneider, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give 
this committee wdll be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Schneider. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL J. SCHNEIDER, FAIRMONT CITY, ILL., AC- 
COMPANIED BY MAX SIGOLOFF, ATTORNEY, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

The Chairman. What is your name ? 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. Mr. Sigoloff, Senator. 

The Chairman. Let the record show that Mr. Sigoloff — what is 
your first name? 

Mr. Sigoloff. Max. 706 Chestnut Street, St. Louis, Mo. 

The Chairman. Mr. Sigoloff is appearing with Mr. Schneider as 
his attorney. 

Mr. White. Mr. Schneider, you operate an establishment on Cook- 
son Road, in Fairmont City ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What is that address, please ? 

Mr. Schneider. 3912 Cookson Road. 

Mr. White. How long has that place been in business? How long 
has that place been in the horse race business? 

Mr. Schneider. I believe we have been there about 4 years. I am 
not certain about that. I would want to check my records on that. 

Mr. White. Approximately 4 years. Before the 4 yeai^, do you 
know of your own knowledge wdiether it was used for a regular 
dwelling, or whether it was used for a similar purpose by someone 
else ? 

Mr. Schneider. It was a dwelling. 

Mr. White. Do you happen to know wdio lived there? 

Mr. Schneider. I don't remember his name. 

Mr. WiHTE. At any rate, it wasn't yourself or any of your associates? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you own that property there? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What is the value of it? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 171 

Mr. Schneider. That is, I don't own it. Mr. Camniarata's sister. 

Mr. White. Were you at one time connected with an operation 
known as the Melba Co. ? 

Mr. Schneider. Melba, yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Is this operation that you have there now also known as 
the Melba Co. 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Does that name have any particular significance except 
as an identifying label of you and your partners, the partnership? 

Mr. Schneider. How is that again? 

Mr. White. It is just to identify the partnership, or does it have 
any other significance? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. It took its name, when we went into that 
business we were in the Melba Building down in South St. Louis. 

Mr. White. Were you one of several persons who were indicted 
and tried in the southern district of Illinois some years ago in con- 
nection with an alleged lottery scheme? 

Mr. Schneider. That was not some years ago. That was just 
recently. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. They weren't tried, but indicted. 

Mr. White. Indicted and quashed, is that it ? 

Mr. SiGOEOFF. We don't have the term "quash." 

The Chairman. A motion was filed to dismiss the pleadings on the 
ground that skill was involved? 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. It didn't constitute a violation of the postal laws. 

Mr. White. A^^iat was that scheme you were operating at that time, 
Mr. Schneider, and who were your partners? 

Mr. Schneider. What is what? 

Mr. White. First of all, who were your partners in that enterprise? 

Mr. Schneider. Mr. Frank Cammarata. 

Mr. AVhite. Who else? 

Mr. Schneider. That is all. 

Mr. White. Just one? 

Mr. Schneider. Just the two of us ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Are there just two of you now operating the place on 
Cookson Road? 

Mr. Schneider. We have help. 

Mr. White. You are the two partners ? 

Mr. Schneider. Just the two partners. 

Mr. White. What was the operation 

The Chairman. It is still the same operation, is it not? You are 
still operating? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes. We are not over there any more. 

Mr. White. You are not doing a mail business at this address, are 
you ? 

Mr, Schneider. Oh, no. 

Mr. White. But you were doing a mail business before, were you 
not ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. Well, I say "no." We weren't doing what 
the public would figure as a mail business. What the mail constituted 
was that we mailed out derby sheets, and there were some derby bets 
mailed in. That was the only occasion that we took bets in the mail. 

68958 — 51 — pt. 4a 12 



172 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. White. Then what was your operation in general? Describe 
that operation which resulted in your indictment. 

Mr. Schneider. That resulted in this indictment? 

Mr. White. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. Schneider. That was it. We, like other bookmakers, sent out 
derby sheets, future book, listing the horses and the odds. From time 
to time those odds changed, and people would wire in or write in and 
tell us what they wanted in the future book. Then we would mail 
them a ticket, a receipt for their money. 

Mr. White. Are you still doing that type of operation ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

Mr. White. You said not at this place. Are you doing it anywhere 
else ? 

Mr. Schneider. We are winding up the business. That is what we 
are doing. 

Mr. White. Where is the headquarters of that particular business ? 

Mr. Schneider. That is the headquarters. 

Mr. White. You are not soliciting new customers and you are not 
mailing out future books at the present time? 

jNIr. Schneider. Sir ? 

Mr. White. You are not now soliciting new customers or mailing 
out future books ? 

Mr. Schneider. We haven't solicited new customers for several 
years. 

Mr. White. When you say you are winding up the business, what 
do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Schneider. I mean by that that we are getting out. 

Mr. White. Getting out of the bookmoking business completely ? 

Mr. Schneider. That is right. 

Mr. White. Why are you getting out, INIr. Schneider ? 

Mr. Schneider. Our business has dw^indled to such a point that it 
is liardly worth while fooling with, anyway. 

]Mr. White. What is your average gross a day, your average take a 
day, that you handle ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yesterday, the Western Union checks were a little 
over $500. I don't believe there was anything outside of that. 

Mr. White. Incidentally, do you operate in the same manner that 
■ C. J. Rich Co. did, through the Western Union? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you have Western Union clerks who accept bets for 
you and transmit the moneys to you ? 

Mr. S('HNEiDER. Not to our knowledge. You mean agents for us ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

Mr. White. What proportion of your business is telegraph business 
and what proportion of it is local teleplione business? 

Mr. Schneider. We haven't any local telephone business to speak of, 
at all. 

Mr. White. How many phones do you have in your place on Cook- 
son Road? 

Mr. Schneider. Four, 

Mr. White. Are you sure there are not more than four there? 

Mr. Schneider. There is more instruments than that, but there are 
just the four numbers. Some of them have extensions from one table 
to tlie other. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 173 

Mr. White. You must have some local telephone business. Other- 
vise there wouldn't be any point in having more than one phone. 

Mr. ScHNEmER. We do have a little local business ; none to speak of. 

Mr. White. Where do you draw that trade from ? 

Mr. Schneider. East St. Louis. 

Mr. White. Do you subscribe to the Pioneer News Service ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White, By ticker ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. How much do you pay for that service ? 

Mr. Schneider. $90 a week. 

Mr. White. Has it always been $90 a week ? 

Mr. Schneider. No. It has been as low as $20. 

Mr, White, What was the difference between the $20 service and 
the $90 service? 

Mr, Schneider. There is no difference in the service at all. It is 
the same, 

Mr. AVhite. What was the basis for the change in charge ? 

Mr, Schneider. The which ? 

Mr. White. What was the basis for the difference in rates ? Why 
were the rates different at different times ? 

Mr. Schneider. Well. I suppose it is like everything else, over a 
period of years — when I say $20, that has been about 17 or 18 years ago. 

Mr. White. You said you had this place for the past 4 years, didn't 
you ? 

Mr. Schneider, Well, in the last 4 years we have paid $60, $75, and 
then $90, I believe that was the scale. 

Mr. White. With whom do you negotiate on these prices? Who 
tells you how much you are going to have to pay ? 

Mr. Schneider. I am sorry to have to ask you to repeat these ques- 
tions, but I am a little bit hard of hearing. 

Mr, White, Who tells you how much you are going to have to pay ? 

Mr. Schneider. Pop Brown told us. 

Mr. White. Pop Brown is now dead. Now who tells you ? 

Mr. Schneider. Nobody. We haven't been raised, I guess, for a year 
and a half. 

Mr. White. Do you have any contract or agreement with Pioneer ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Have you had any discussions with young Brown? 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

Mr. White, How do you pay your account book with Pioneer, Mr. 
Schneider? 

Mr, Schneider. By check. 

Mr. White. A check on whose account? 

Mr. Schneider. Melba. 

Mr. White. And signed by yourself? 

Mr. Schneider. No. I can sign checks. Mr. Cammarata can sign 
checks. But they are usually signed by one of the men in the office, 
Mr. Charles Kastner. 

Mr. White. You are sure that you don't put some money in an en- 
velope and drop it into the mail slot of the Pioneer office ? 

Mr, Schneider. No. I have the checks here if you want to see them. 
I will be glad to get them out of the box there. 



174 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. WiiiTp]. Mr. Schneider, were you ever bothered by the police in 
the city of Fairmont? 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

JNIr. White. Were you ever bothered by the sheriff i 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

Mr. White. Were you ever bothered by the district attorney ? 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

Mr. White. You were conducting an ilicit operation, weren't you; 
an illegal operation? 

Mr. SiGOLorr. I don't think that is a proper question, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Does he know whether it is unlawful or not? If 
he does 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. I submit that isn't within his province to determine 
whether it is or not. 

Mr. Schneider. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Has he been told whether it is unlawful or not? 

Mr. Schneider. Sir? 

Mr. Halley. Have you inquired of counsel whether it is unlawful 
or not? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir, I haven't. 

]Mr. Halley. Have you ever been advised that bookmaking is a 
felony in the State of Illinois? 

Mr. Schneider. AVould you mind talking a litle louder? 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been advised that bookmaking is a 
felony in the State of Illinois ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

Mr. White. You have been a bookmaker for 17 years ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. White. Have you ever been arrested for bookmaking ? 

Mr, Schneider. Well, we were once, yes. 

Mr. White. When was that ? 

Mr. Schneider. About 11 or 12 years ago. 

Mr. White. Where was it ? 

Mr. Schneider. Here in St. Louis. 

Mr. White. You say that you don't know whether or not gambling 
is against the lp,w ? 

Mr. SiGOLOFE. He didn't say that. The question was submitted in a 
different form entirely. 

The Chairman. Whether his operation over there was unlawful or 
not. That is the question. 

Mr. SiGOLOFE. It is not for this witness to pass upon the legality of 
any law, JNIr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Sigoloff, if he knows whether it was or not, 
let him say. If he does not know 

Mr. Schneider. I say I don't know. 

Mr. Sigoloff. Just a second. 

I submit that the chairman has recognized there is some merit in 
my point. I don't think it is for the witness to determine the legality 
of any law. 

The Chairman. Mr. Sigoloff, I think even in a court of law that that 
is a legitimate question, but of course, we are not trying an^^body. 
AVe have no ])leiiary ]:)owers. We are just trying to find out what the 
operation was, whether he got any protection for the operation, what 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 175 

tlie law-enforcement conditions around his operation were. So it is 
])ertinent to the question whether he knew this was an operation in 
violation of the law. We will ask the witness to answer that. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. I submit, Mr. Chairman 

The Chairman^. You have made your objection and I have over- 
ruled the objection. The question is, Do you know whether or not this 
o]:>eration that you were carrying- on was in violation of the law of 
tlie State of Illinois? 

Mr. Schnj:ider. Well, I really don't know, sir. 

Mr. White. Do I understand you to say, then, Mr. Schneider, that 
you do not know whether the taking; of bets on a horse race and the 
exchange of money in connection witli that bet is a violation of the 
law, or not? 

Mr. Schneider. Well, I really don't, because 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. I submit that is argumentative. 

The Chairman. That is the question, and we will ask him to an- 
swer it. 

What is your answer, that you do not know whether it was or not? 

Mr. Schneider. I don't know. 

Mr. White. Was there any consideration of any kind given by you 
or any of your partners to any public oflicials for the privilege of 
operating there ? 

;Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

]Mr. White. In your opinion, could anyone have set up a similar 
operation across the street from yon in competition with you without 
molestation ? 

Mr. Schneider. I don't know about that, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you have any special relationship with the public 
officials that enabled you to operate? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you have any special franchise with Pioneer 
News Service whereby you had a monopoly for that area ? 

Mr. Schneider. No. we did not, because we never catered to the 
people in the neighborhood anyway. We had no people in and out of 
the place. 

The Chairman. People call in bets on the telephone? 

Mr. Schneider. (Jn the tele])hone or on the wire. 

The Chairman. Did they call in from St. Louis over here? 

Mr. Schneider. No ; we didn't have any customers from St. Louis. 

The Chairman. Do you have agents out getting bets from the 
people ? 

Mr. Schneider. Around the country, wire business, yes. 

The Chairman. How many States would you take bets from, I 
mean ? 

Mr. Schneider. How many States? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Schneider. In Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas 

The Chairman. Tennessee? 

Mr. Schneider. Tennessee, Kentucky. 

The Chairman. Did these people keep an account with you ? That 
is, did some of your bettors have money on hand against which they 
would bet? 

Mr. Schneider. Sometimes they would. Others would just send 
the money in with the telegram. 



176 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. And they -vvoiild get in tonch with you by telegi^am, 
by letter, or by telephone call ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, not by letter. By telephone or wire. 

The Chairman. You did send out form sheets ? 

Mr. Schneider. That is on the derby. 

The Chairman. That is on the derby. 

Mr. Schneider. I thought yon were talking about the regular every- 
day business. 

The Chairman. You have told what your Western Union take is a 
day. What is your telephone take and all your take altogether? 

Mr. Schneider. Eight now? 

The Chairman. Say during the time when you were operating bet- 
ter, say 1 year ago. 

Mr. Schneider. If you want to know exactly, I had better get the 
books. 

The Chairman. Approximately, to your best knowledge. 

Mr. Schneider. Oh, I would say altogether $1,200 or $1,500 a day. 

The Chairman. What is' it now, approximately ? 

Mr. Schneider. About half that. 

Mr. White. What is your average percentage of profit on your 
business ? 

Mr. Schneider. Well, I don't knoAv how to answer you on that. It is 
pretty difficult. 

Mr. White. Don't you try to w^ork on a definite margin of profit and 
keep it in that by laying-off bets if you are in danger ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, we do laying-off, but we have no definite per- 
centage to figure on. 

The Chairman. Do you pay track odds ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How about over 20-to-l ? Will vou take bets over 
20-to-l? 

Mr. Schneider. We have paid track odds up to 10 across, and we 
pay 40, 20, and 10 for the next 10 ; 20, 10, and 5 after that. 

The Chairman. Who do you lay-off with. Mr. Schneider? 

Mr. Schneider. John Mooney, Earl Schachter, R. L. Kilpatrick Co. 

The Chairman. John Mooney is Carroll, is it not ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That is his operation. Does Mr. Carroll come 
around to see you ? 

( No response. ) 

Mr. White. Do you know Buster Wortman ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

Mr. White. That is all I have. 

Mr. H alley. I have no more questions. 

The Chairman. You say you have never paid anybody for protec- 
tion, any police or city official ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever loan them any money? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

The Chairman. What other businesses do you liave? 

Mr. Schneider. Sir, I am principally in the bowling alley business. 

The Chairman. Are you a native of East St. Louis?. 

Mr. Schneider, No, St, Louis, 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 177 

The Chairman. How about slot machines ? 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

The Chairman. Are 3^011 in the slot-machme business? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

The Chairman. This JVIelba Co. and bowling alleys are all you 
have ? Is that your business ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What else? 

Mr. Schneider. I am in no other business except the sales of bowling 
alleys. 

The Chair^ian. How about Frank Cammarata ? What business is 
he in besides the Melba Co. ? 

Mr. Schneider. None that I know of. 

The Chairman. What is the active manager, you or he? 

Mr. Schneider. I would say it is about 50-50. 

The Chairman. Anything further? 

]\fr. AVhite. Are 3^011 pei"sonally acquainted with any officials of 
the Western Union? 

Mr. Schneider. Mister — I can't think of his name, who was for- 
merly manager there, rented a house from a real estate compan3' that 
I worked for. 

JNIr. White. Were you personally' acquainted with an3' of the 
Western Union office managers or clerks who handled 

Mv. Schneider. I know from going in there. 

Mr. White. In your local office, but in the point of origin of the 
messages ? 

Mr. Schneider. Oh, no, 

]\Ir. White. Did you ever have any correspondence with them, ever 
remit an3' money to "them, every pay them a commission? 

Mr. Schneider. I won't swear "to that. We do have people that 
we pay commissions to around the country. We pay for nearly every- 
thing Ave get. To my knowledge, none of them are Western Union, 
people. 

The Chairman. What is your commission, 25 percent of the profit ? 

^h\ Schneider. We have different arrangements. We get it on 
whatever basis we can. Some we give 2i/o and 10. That means we 
give them 21/0 percent of the take and 10 percent of the net profit. We 
have others we give a straight 20 or 25 percent to, and some as high 
as 50 percent of our net profit. 

Mr. White. Were you operating today? 

Mr. Schneider. There were some wires come in, and our man has 
gotten them, I believe. 

Mr. White. Were you getting wire service today or information 
toda3^ ? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. We are closed over there. 

Mr. White. You are not getting telephone information? 

Mr. Schneider. No, sir. 

You asked me how many phones we had over there. You know, 
when you were there Saturday 3"ou saw a whole lot of phones. 

INfr.' White. Friday. 

Mr. Schneider. Friday, whenever it was. You saw a lot of phones. 
There is another company in that front room. That isn't all ours. 
Ours is just the side room. 

Mr. White. Who is the other company? 



178 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. ScHXEiDEU. R. L. Kilpatrick Co. 

Mr. White. K. L. Kilpatrick. Is tliat a local business, or is that a 
telegraph business? 

Mr. Schneider. No, I think his is local. 

Mr. White. Do they rent the premises from you ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. How much do you charge them? 

Mr. Schneider. Ten dollars a month. 

Mr. White. Do you have the value and benefit of their wire service, 
information service ? 

Mr. Schneider. Of the news service, you mean? 

Mr. White. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Schneider. No. They have their own. 

Mr. White. Isn't that a very low rent for that facility that you 
provide ? 

Mr. Schneider. All we provide is the one room. 

Mr. White. I have nothing further. 

Mr. Halley. Is there some advantage that you gain by having them 
right there with you? 

Mr. Schneider. Sir? 

Mr, Halley. Is there some advantage that you gain by having them 
right in there wdth you? 

Mr. Schneider. No, none at all. We lay-off to them once in a while, 
but they wouldn't have to be there for us to do that. 

Mr. Halley. Are you or any of the people associated with your 
business also associated with Kilpatrick? 

Mr. Schneider. No. 

The Chairman. All right ; that is all. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. I just would like to clear up one thing, if you will. 

The Chairman. All right. 

]\Ir. SiGOLOFF. You said you had not solicited any customers for 
several years. I want that cleared up in the record. What do you 
mean by soliciting customers, that you hadn't for several years? 

Mr. Schneider. To go out and ask them for business. A lot of these 
firms have men on the road. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. That isn't altogether meant by soliciting customers, 
you know. You can solicit customers by wire and by letters, Mr. 
Schneider, so I want these gentlemen and the record to show what you 
understand by soliciting. Yon don't have to go out and see somebody, 
you know, in order to solicit business. Is that what you mean? 

ISIr. Schneider. Yes ; that is what I meant. 

The Chair:man. When did you stop sending things out through the 
mail to prospective customers? 

Mr. Schneider. The last thing we sent out through the mail was, I 
believe, that derby sheet. 

The Ciiair:n[an. When was that? 

Mr. Schneider. That was a year ago last April. 

The Chairman. All right. 

]Mi'. SiGOLOii'F. In other words, for the benefit of the record, also, 
since this indictment you did not send out any matter through the 
mail? 

]Mr. Schneider. No. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. In other words, you did not intend to send any more 
out, is that your testimony? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 179^' 

Mr. Schneider. That is right. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. Then commissions to persons around. Do you know 
that perhaps some of these persons who receive commissions in these 
various States may be working for tlie Western Union but you don't 
know whether they are? 

Mr. Schneider. That is right. They may be, but I don't know ; not 
that I know of. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. That is what I wanted to clear up. 

The Chairman. All riglit. 

You have some records, I believe, which you brought in pursuant 
to the subpena. They will be made a part of the record, and we will 
get them back to you right away. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. Senator, they are those great big things over there,, 
boxes and so on, and also Mr. Schneider has records here. Mr. AVliite 
suggested that he bring all of his records covering all of his business 
connections. Of course, he wanted to comply and did comply with 
that request. They are great big boxes here, and there is a suitcase 
there, and a lot of envelopes there. As far as the IVIelba records, he 
is more than glad for you to have those here. He does have occasion, 
I am told by him — of course. I don't know ijersonally — am I correct in 
saying that you do use the records of the bowling alley business? 

Mr. Schneider. I use them ? Oh, yes, surely. 

Mr. SiGOLOFT. You mentioned something about needing them. 

Mr. Schneider. Surely, I have to have them to carry on our business. 

The Chairman. Do we have any need for the bowling alley records ? 

Mr. White. Xone at all. 

The Chairman. You may take them with you. 

Mr. Schneider. I have bowling alley check stubs. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF, The Senator says you can take the bowling alley 
records with you. 

The Chairman. If you got them all back by the end of next week, 
would that be all right? 

Mr. Schneider. I would like to take my bowling alley business with 
me. 

The Chairman. If yon can get it out, you can take it. 

Mr. Schneider. Those are canceled checks and check stubs. 

Mr. SiGOLOFF. Is it all right for him to take whatever he can of the 
bowling alley business ? 

The Chairman. Yes, that is all right. 

The Chair^ian. Call Gregory Moore. 

Mr. Moore, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this 
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Moore. "^I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GREGORY MOORE. ST. LOUIS, MO., ACCOMPANIED 
BY JOHN W. JOYNT, ATTORNEY, ST. LOUIS, MO. 

]\Ir. JoYNT. My name is Joynt, J-o-y-n-t, John W. 

The Chairman. You are appearing as attorney for Mr. Moore? 

Mr. JoYNT. That is right. My address is Shell Building, St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. ^Y\mt is your occupation, M.r Moore ? 

Mr. Moore. At the present time. none. 

My address is 8114 Gannon, St. Louis 24. 



180 ORGANIZED CRIJME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. When did you last have an occupation ? 

Mr. Moore. TJie 12th of May. 

Mr. Halley. Tlie 12th of May of this year? 

Mr. Moore. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was j'our occupation ? 

Mr. ]\Ioore. The question of my occupation is in the process of 
litigation, and I don't think I could testify to that effect now. That 
is my opinion. Your opinion may be otherwise. 

Mr. Halley. It is in the process of civil or criminal litigation? 

Mr. Moore. Criminal litigation in the county court of ISIadison. 

Mr. Halley. Were you a participant in the so-called Hvde Park 
Club? 

Mr. MooRE. Was I what ? 

Mr. Halley. A participant in the so-called Hyde Park Club. 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. What did the Hyde Park Club do? 

Mr. MooRE. That would be incriminatory against 

Mr. Halley. If your position is that it will incriminate you under 
the laws of the State of Illinois 

Mr. Moore. ]\Iy opinion is that since I have to have my day in court, 
and I have to go to trial, anything I would say regarding that would 
be in the press and could be used against me. 

The Chairman. Is there any Federal proceeding pending against 
you, Mr. Moore? 

Mr. Moore. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Then you have no privilege, because you are only 
privileged not to testify on the ground that it would incriminate you 
in a Federal proceeding. 

Mr. JoYNT. May I suggest this, gentlemen, that there has been an 
information issued against Mr. IVIoore. and I believe the case has been 
set for trial. I believe in fairness to Mr. Moore you might defer that 
particular question. 

Mr. Halley. You must realize that he is here for the purpose of 
talking about the Hyde Park Club, so we would have to defer it all. 

Perhaps I can clear it up. 

Mr. Moore. I am not averse to discussing 

Mr. Halley. Your privilege, first of all, is limited, as Senator Ke- 
fauver said, to matters which would incriminate you under the Fed- 
eral law. It is secondly limited only to cases in which you are willing 
to say under oath that your testimony would tend to incriminate you, 
not that it might. 

Mr. JoYNT. He not only takes that position, but he will decline to 
answer that question unless he is compelled to do so by you. 

Mr. Halley. What question will he decline to answer? 

Mr. JoYNT. The question you just put. If you insist upon it, he will 
finswer it on your insistence. 

Tlie Chairman. A^Hiat is the question? 

JNIr. Moore. What kind of business was Hyde Park? Is that it? 

The Chairman. Mr. Joynt, the committee wants to be fair with 
Mr. Moore, and we certainly do not want to prejudice his situation 
in any way if we can prevent it. This is, of course, an executive 
session. 

Mr. JoYNT. I understand that, Mr. Senator. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX IXTERSTATE COMMERCE 181 

The Chairman. I imagine before any testimony is released or before 
Tre have an open hearing, this will be out of the way. In any event, 
Mr. Moore has no privilege upon which he can rel}?^ to prevent answer- 
ing a question before this committee. 

Mr. JoYNT. I understand that, Senator. 

The Chairman. We have no power of trying anybody. We are not 
trying to convict anybody. We are just trying to find out what the 
facts are. We do not want to go into detail, but we would like to know 
generally what kind of business it is. 

Mr. MoORE. It is a gambling business. 

Mr. Halley. I show you a copy of the partnership return for 1949, 
.and work papers that accompany it. Can you identify them? Here 
are the remainder of the work papers. 

Mr. MooRE. What is this, sir ( 

Mr. Halley. The remainder of the work papers. 

Mr. Moore. What do you w^ant me to identify 'i 

Mr. Halley. Is that the partnership return and the work papers? 
"We got them from your accountant. 

Mr. IMooRE. You got them from Staley. I told him to give them to 
you. 

^Ir. Halley. The papers he delivered to us are in fact the income- 
tax returns of the Hyde Park Club ? 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. I offer in evidence as exhibit Xo. 22 all of the papers 
•delivered to the committee by JNIr. Staley pursuant to your instruction. 

(Exhibit Xo. 22 was later returned to the witness.) 

Mr. Moore. This name I will have to reverse. I won't erase it. I 
will just interlineate it. It should be this way instead of that way. 
You have the name in the wrong place. This one is wrong, too, the 
wrong spelling. 

Mr. Halley. You mean a typographical error ? 

Mr. Moore. The name is "er," instead of "ee." However, I haven't 
'erased them. I left them right there. 

These dependents, I don't know anything about that. 

The Chairman. All right, let us get on. 

Mr. Moore. I am just checking those names to verify them, that is 
all. 

Mr. Halley. We got them from your accountant. If there is any 
mistake in them, we certainly will have them corrected. 

Mr. IMoORE. I have them corrected here, so you can change them, 

Mr. Halley. At the Hyde Park Club there was a horse book ? 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And there were various gambling games ? 

Mr. Moore. Blackjack. At that time that was all there was. 

Mr. Halley. And crap games ? 

Mr. Moore. No : they had closed. 

Mr. Halley. When did they close? 

Mr, INIooRE. Christmas Eve. 

Mr. Halley. Of 1949? 

Mr, MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Up to then there was craps and roulette ? 

Mr. MooRE. And blackjack and horses. 

Mr, Halley. Taking the year 1949 return, I see that the gross in- 
come was $971,000; is that right? 



182 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Moore. Offhand I couldn't tell you. but in the absence of some- 
thino; to the contrary. I will say it is rioht. I am positive it is, but 
I don't recall the figures, but I will say that it is correct. 

Mr. Halley. You show an ordinary net income of $364,000, 

Mr. Moore. Offhand, I couldn't teU you that, either, but I will tell 
you it is correct for the record. 

Mr. Halley. Then I see here a schedule of payments to partners. 
First of all, there were salaries ; is that right ? 

Mr. Moore. For whoeA'er were marked on there, thei-e were salaries;. 
yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. I take it you devoted 100 percent of your time to the 
business ? 

Mr. Moore. In a supervisory capacity, but not 100 percent. I was 
in and out, because it didn't require that much time. 

Mr. Halley. What was your income from the club in 1949 ? 

Mr. Moore. I don't know what the total figure is there, but what- 
ever 5 percent of the figure there is should be on there. 

Mr. Halley. Let's see if we can find it. 

Mr. Moore. Yes ; I am on there. 

Mr. Halley. $17,869. 

Mr. Moore. Whatever that shoAvs there, for the record that is it. 

Mr. Halley. I note some people drew a great deal more income in 
that year, such as John T. Connor. 

Mr. MooRE. He had a greater percentage. Look at the right-hand 
corner. 

Mr. Halley. He had 17 y2. 

Mr. Moore. That is your answer. 

Mr. Halley. Whereas you had onlv 

Mr. MooRE. Five. 

Mr. Halley. Five percent. 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. What was your capacity in the operation of the 
club? 

Mr. Moore. Just supervisor. 

Mr. Halley. You Avere there every day ? 

Mr. Moore. I Avas there every day, but in and out. I was there 
eA^ery day. but I didn't have any special hours. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any other occupation or sources of 
income yourself ? 

Mr. Moore. In 1949 i Y^es. I got — I forget the amount, from the 
HollvAvood Race Track. 

Mr. Halley. Hollywood, Fla. ? 

Mr. Moore. Hollywood Turf Club. It is in California, but I forget 
the toAvn. Arcadia. 

Mr. Halley. Who are your associates in the HollyAvood track? 

Mr. Moore. I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Halley. Can you name any of them ? 

Mr. Moore. Yes. I can name the ones that send me a letter eA^ery 
year and ask for my proxy, MerA'yn Leroy. Tom Simmons, but I don't 
knoAv them. 

Mr. Halley. Hoav did you happen to get into it ? 

Mr. ]\Io()RE. When it was organized, I Avas solicited. They solicited 
funds to organize the Hollywood Kace Track, and it Avas open to 
anvone. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 183 

Mr. Halley. Wlio solicited the funds I 

Mr. Moore. Howard Quinn got me in it. He is one of my partners; 
Tight there. 

Mr. Halley. John H. Quinn? 

Mr. Moore. John H. : that is right. 

Mr. Halley. Of Venice, IlL 

Mr. ]MoRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. He spoke to you about it, and then you both got into 
that? 

Mr. ]\rooRE. Yes, sir. He used to live out there. 

Mr. Halley. In 1949, did you have any other business ventures or 
interests^ 

JNIr. MooRE. I think that is the only income I recalL However, I 
can get my income tax. Offhand, I coukhi't tell you. 

Mr. Halley. I wish you woidd, and at a hiter time make it available. 

Mr. Moore. If he will be in town, I will give it to him, be glad to. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get your racing information for the 
horse book at Hyde Park, from Molasky ? 

Mr. Moore. I don't know. Pioneer News. 

Mr. Halley. What was the arrangment with Pioneer? 

Mr. Moore. Pardon me, what do you mean, financial arrangement? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Moore. I think we paid $300 a week. 

Mr. Halley. Who arranged the price ? 

Mr. Moore. That I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever have any dealings with Pioneer? 

Mr. Moore. No: except that we had to have their service. 

Mr. Halley. Who was in charge of that arrangement? 

Mr. MooRE. Offhand I couldn't tell you definitely, because the serv- 
ice was supplied there over a period of years before I ever came in 
there. 

Mr. Halley. Somebody in your organization must be in charge of 
the transactions and dealings from day to day with Pioneer. Who 
•does it ? 

Mr. Moore. There is no daily transactions there at all. Wlienever 
you open up 

Mr. Halley. Who delivers the $300 every week ? 

Mr. Moore. One of the clerks, any clerk delivers it over there. No- 
hody in particular. 

Mr. Halley. Is it done by check ? 

Mr. ^Ioore. Cash. Some of it might be check. Connor's would be 
some in check and some in cash. We have a receipt for the cash. 

Mr. Halley. You say "Connor's.'' Is he the one in charge of it? 

Mr. Moore. I wouldn't necessarily attribute him being in charge. 
Whoever happened to take the money would send it over. It was no 
specific job of anybody to handle. 

Mr. Halley. Is it delivered directly ? 

Mr. ]\Ioore. To the office. 

]Mr. Halley. To Pioneer? 

Mr. ^NIoore. To the office. 

Mr. Halley. $300 every week ? 

Mr. ]MooRE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Was that true all durinor 1949? 



184 ORGANS IZED CRIIME IX INTERSTATE COAIMERCE 

INIr. Moore. That, I would have to adhere to the record, refer you- 
to the record. We have receipts for it. From memory, I wouldn't tell 
you that, because it might have varied. It might have been $250. But 
I think the last time was $300. 

Mr. Halley. When did you first become associated with the Hvde- 
ParkClub? 

Mr. JNIooRE. About 19-i2, 1 think. 

Mr. Halley. Since 1942, have vou had anv other businesses besides 
the Hyde Park Club? 

Mr. MooEE. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What were they ? 

Mr. ISIooRE. I forget how much mone}', I had some money in the 
National Amusement Co. 

JNIr. Halley. What is the business of the National Amusement Co. I 

Mr. Moore. That is phonographs, pinball machines. 

Mr. Halley. Who were 3'our associates in that ? 

Mr. MooRE. Barney Barts was one. and Frank Wortman was an- 
other, but the rest of them I couldn't tell you, because he is the only 
one. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know Frank Wortman? 

Mr. Moore. Yes ; I have known him since he was 10 years old. 

Mr. Halley. Where does he live ? 

Mr. Moore. Up in Collinsville, now. He used to live in St. Louis. 

The Chairman. Is that Buster Wortman ? 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Are you associated with him in any other business? 

Mr. MooRE. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you still have that pinball business with him? 

Mr. Moore. No ; I sold that, and there is a capital gains tax on that, 
and I loaned him some money on Plaza. 

Mr. Halley. You are associated in the Plaza Amusement Co. ? 

Mr. Moore. Yes. I have some stock in there. 

Mr. Halley. Who else is associated in the Plaza Amusement Co.? 

Mr. Moore. I couldn't tell you. I put my money in there at his 
behest, but I never go near the place. I haven't been in the place. I 
couldn't tell you who works there except one woman, she was an enter- 
tainer named Ann something. I have known her for about 20 3'ears, 
I guess. 

Mr. Halley. Does Wortman have monej^ in Plaza ? 

Mr. MooRE. I am satisfied he does, yes. That is the reason I put 
some in there, to give him a break. 

Mr. Halley. Did he put some in? 

Mr. MooRE. Stock; yes. I thinly he has stock in there. I am sure 
he has. 

]\Ir. Halley. Did he put money in ? 

Mr. MooRE. I am satisfied he must have if he has stock in there. 

Mr. Halley. He was in that other company first with you ? 

Mr. Moore. Yes ; and he got some money on the capital gains. 

Mr. Halley. He got some money on the capital gains? 

Mr. IMooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. It was in 1942 that you went into it? 

Mr. MooRE, I don't know what year it was, exactly, now. I would 
have to get the record for you. I think it was later than 1942. I 
think that was 1944. 



ORGA>:iZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 185 

Mr. Halley. That you sold out ? 

Mr. Moore. No ; that we started. 

Mr. Haijley. That you started. And when did you sell out? 

Mr. MooRE. About 18 months later. 

INIr. Halley. Did Wortman have money to put into that business in 
1944 ? What was the name of it ? 

Mr. Moore. The National. He didn't have any then. 

Mr. Halley. "Wlio staked him in National? 

]Mr. INIooRE. I put some of it up, and his brother put some up, I think. 
I am not positive, but I am relying on my memory. That is all I can 
tell them. 

Mr. Halley. Did anybody else put money into National ? 

Mr. Moore. I don't think so. I don't think so. 

Mr. Halley. National sold out when? It started in 1944. 

]\Ir. MooRE. I am hazarding a guess on it now, and we kept it for 
16 or 17 months. 

Mr. Halley. Let's get it straight. In 1944, then, when National 
started 

Mr. Moore. I think so. 

]Mr. Halley. And the record will show when it started ? 

Mr. MooRE. That is right, and the record will have to show when 
the capital gains were reported. 

]Mr. Halley. At that point. Wortman had no money. He borrowed 
some from his brother and some from you to start in National ? 

Mr. MooRE. I don't know that. I don't know whether Wortman had 
money or not, but I put some money in there to help the place go. 

INIr. Halley. He didn't put any in, I thought you testified, but that 
his brother had put some in. 

Mr. MoORE. I think that is correct, but I wouldn't want to go on- 
record as saying that is absolutely correct. I want to qualify that 
because I don't know offhand. 

Mr. Halley. Qualify it as best you can. 

Mr. IMooRE. I think that I put some in and Ed put some in, his 
brother Ed. 

Mr. Halley. And Frank had a free ride? 

Mr. Moore. As to that, I am not positive. 

Mr. Halley. You were a partner. Did he actually deliver any 
money to the business ? 

Let the witness testify, Mr. Joynt. We will be fair. We are trying^ 
to be fair. We have gotten along very well with all the other wit- 
nesses. I think we can get along with him. 

Mr. MooRE. I haven't a thing to hide. I will bring you the record. 

The CiiAiRMAisr. Is this a corporation or a partnership? 

Mr. MooRE. That was a corporation. 

Mr. Halley. Do you still have the books of it? 

Mr. MooRE. No. but the Government has a complete audit of it. 

Mr. Halley, The point is that if Mr. Wortman, Frank Wortman, 
at the time he went into that business, borrowed from you and his 
brother his contribution, that wouldn't show on any Government audit. 
As far as you recall, that is the fact? 

Mr. MooRE. As far as I recall, I think that is, yes ; relying on a fairly 
retentive memory, I think that is right. 

Mr. Halley. That is good enough. 



186 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Then you sold out, with capital gains, about 1946, did you say? 

Mr. MooRE. Add 16 or 17 months to the date that we took it over, 
.and you will have your answer. When I get you the day we took it 
over, I think we kept it for 16 consecutive months. 

Mr. Halley. Who bought that ? 

Mr. Moore. The people we bought it from, Pete Brandt, the Wur- 
litzer distributor. He is on Eighteenth and Olive. 

Mr. Halley. That is a Chicago outfit, isn't it? 

Mr. Moore. No, St. Louis. He is the St. Louis distributor for tlie 
Wurlitzer people. 

Mr. Halley. They are controlled in Chicago, are they not? 

Mr. Moore. I couldn't answer that. He is an individual, himself. 

Mr. Halley. Pete Brandt is the fellow you bought it from ? 

Mr. Moore. That is right, and we sold it back. 

Mr. Halley. Does he have associates? 

Mr. MooRE. That I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Halley. What was the capital gain? 

Mr. MooRE. The capital gains, offhand I couldn't tell you, but I will 

■ be glad to give you a copy of my tax return. I think the capital gain 
was $6,600, and of course, half is reported, $3,300. 

Mr. Halley. Your own share was $6,600 ? 

Mr. Moore. Relying on a fairly retentive memory, I think it is. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have a third interest ? 

Mr. Moore. I think I had 10 percent of it. 

Mr. Halley. Ten percent. Do you recall how much W^ortman had ? 

Mr. MooRE. Offhand, no, I couldn't tell you, but I know the books 
will show it. 

Mr. Halley. Do you think he had over 50 percent ? 

Mr. MooRE. No, 1 don't think he could have had that much. 

Mr. Halley. How many partners were there in National? 

Mr. Moore. There was a fellow named Barts, and myself, and Wort- 
man, and for the purpose of incorporation I just put my son down for 

■ one share. You know, some kind of technicality. 

Mr. JoYNT. Qualifying share. 

Mr. Moore. We just wanted to make it a legal corporation. 

Mr. Halley. I have heard a great deal about the pinball companies, 
!but I would like to hear something about them from an expert. 

Mr. MooiiE. I am not that. 

Mr. Halley. Exactly what was the business of National ? 

Mr. MooRE. That is one business I had nothing to do with. I just 
put the money up. I know nothing whatever about that business. I 
•can assure you of that, definitely. 

Mr. Halley. Did you make machines, or buy them? 

Mr. Moore. Oh, no. You buy them. 

Mr. Halley. Who did you buy them from? 

Mr. Moore. From the Wui'litzer people, and from various 

Mr. Halley. In Chicago? 

Mr. MooRE. Yes, I think so. 

Mr. Halley. Pinball machines? 

Mr. Moore. No; the people that sell you the Wurlitzers have noth- 
ing to do with ])inbaMs. 

Mr. Halley. AVliat did you handle in National? You handled juke 
'. boxes ? 

Mr, Moore. That is riirht. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 187 

Mr. Hai.ley. Pinballs. too? 

Mr. Moore. Yes, but the pinballs weren't purchased from the same 
people that sell the juke boxes. 

Mr. Halley. Who sold you the pinballs? 

Mr. MooRE. Offhand, I couldn't tell you, some Chicago there 

are four or five Chicago outfits. I had nothing to do with the opera- 
tion of that firm. 

Mr. Halley. Who sold you — did you sell punchboards, too? 

Mr. Moore. No. 

Mr. Halley. Xo punchboards? 

Mr. Moore. Xo, sir; no gambling devices. 

Mr. Halley. It has been reputed — and I am going to talk very 
frankly to you, because I think you are inclined to talk frankly at this 
moment. 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. It has been reputed that the pinball machines and 
the juke box machines are controlled by people who can force shop- 
keepers and saloon keepers, and such, to put those machines in their 
premises by gangster methods. Do you have any knowledge of that ? 

Mr. Moore. None whatever, and I wouldn't be a party to it. 

Mr. Halley. How did you manage to get your pinball machines, 
let us sa;y*, installed in various places ? 

xMr. MooRE. I just told you, I had nothing to do with the operation 
of it. With me, it was just going in it to help some people out. I 
know nothing about that kind of business. In fact, I wasn't even 
interested in it. 

Mr. Halley. Did Mr. Wortman operate actively in the field ? 

Mr. MooRE. A young fellow named Barts worked it. 

Mr. Halley. What did Wortman do ? 

Mr. MooRE. I couldn't tell you wdiat he did. 

Mr. Halley. You have no knowledge of it ? 

Mr. MooRE. I didn't frequent the place, because to me it was just 
a waste of time. I didn't like the business, didn't know anything 
about it, and didn't have time to learn it. 

Mr. Halley. The business involves putting these machines in a 
lot of places. 

Mr. JNIooRE. I understand what it involves, and I understand Avhat 
you are getting at, but I know nothing about it; and the fact of the 
matter is, the method that you are hinting at, I wouldn't be a party 
to, and I never solicited any trade. 

Mr. Halley. Still, it might have existed without your knowing 
it, since you have just testified you don't know anything about it. 

Mr. Moore. That is precisely correct, I never had anything to do 
with the operation of that business. 

The CiiAiRMAX. Let me ask, what is the name of the company you 
got the juke boxes from? 

Mr. Moore. Wurlitzer, a national institution, that is a national 
institution. 

The Chairman. Do they allocate any territory 

Mr. Moore. To the distributor, but not to the individual who buys 
the juke boxes. 

The Ctlvirman. What was your territory allocated here? 

Mr. Moore. I don't think you understand. Senator. 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 13 



188 ORGAJS'IZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman . Maybe I do not. 

Mr. Moore. Here is the thing. A distributor is allocated a terri- 
tory. In other words, a distributor is like a distributor for an auto- 
mobile firm. He gets all of them, and then the little retailer buys 
them from him, and you can put them any place you want, but the 
distributor can sell only, for instance, in, like southeast Missouri, or 
northeast Missouri, or southern Illinois. 

The Chairman. What was National ? 

Mr. Moore. Just operated in St. Louis. 

The Chairman. Who was the distributor for this territory ? 

Mr. MooRE. Pete Brandt. He still is. 

Mr. Hallet. What was your total investment in Hyde Park? 

Mr. MooRE. Mine? About $2,500. 

Mr. Halley. When did you make that investment ? 

Mr. Moore. When we bought the building. 

Mr. Halley. It has been a pretty good investment, hasn't it? 

Mr. Moore. Yes, but I don't think you understand quite how it was. 
You see, old man Soy was my partner. Wlien old man Soy died, that 
is how I came into it. I was in there for years. I had known Soy for 
years. 

Mr. Halley. Who was he? 

Mr. Moore. He was a Democratic leader for years, John T. Soy. 
He was a recognized leader here for years, born and raised in St. 
Louis. 

Mr. Halley. A St. Louis Democratic leader? 

Mr. MooRE. He is dead. Yes, he was for years. 

Mr. Halley. Did he get you into this business ? 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. I got myself and Howard Quinn in. 

ISIr. Halley. How did you two get in, with the idea that you could 
give them some political protection ? 

Mr. ]\IooRE. No, no. He was running the place. 

Mr. Halley. Soy ran it ? 

Mr. MooRE. Sov owned 50 percent of the building. 

Mr. Halley. Of Hyde Park? 

Mr. MooRE. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Of the building? 

Mr. MooRE. Of the building. It was closed, it. wasn't running 
then. Of the premises. 

The Chairman. What county is that in ? 

Mr. MooRE. Madison. That is in Illinois, however, not in Missouri. 

Mr. Halley. Why do you operate in Illinois rather than in Missouri 
in a situation like that? Is it that the police are more vigilant in 
Missouri ? • ^ 

Mr. Moore. I couldn't tell you, unless it is like Mahatma Gandhi, 
that they only offer passive resistance to your efforts. 

Mr. Halley. You mean in Illinois? 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Wliere efforts have been made to open large-scale 
gambling enterprises in Missouri, have the police been more enterpris- 
ing in closing them? 

Mr. Moore. I have never made an attempt to. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Halley. I take it you wouldn't attempt it if you felt it wouldn't 
be successful. Am I correct in my conclusion ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 189 

Mr. ]\IooRE. That would kind of make me qualify as an expert. The 
presumption would be that ; yes. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Moore, I think you are qualified as an expert. 

Mr. Moore. Xot for Missouri, never. 

Mr. Halley. Haven't you lived in Missouri ? 

Mr. Moore. Oh, yes. I still live in Missouri. Born and raised in 
St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. And old man Sawyer? 

Mr. MooRE. S-o-y, old man Soy. 

Mr. Halley. He was a St. Louis man? 

Mr. MooRE. Born and raised here. 

Mr. Halley. You are now qualified in Missouri, too. 

ISIr. Moore. No ; I never operated in Missouri. 

Mr. Halley. Let's be a little more serious about it. On your $2,500 
investment, you in 1949 paid a tax on $17,869, is that right? 

Mr. MooRE. There is more to the investment than you think. 

Mr. Halley. Go ahead. 

Mr. Moore. I mean, it was closed when I bought it. 

The Chairman. I take it that you also spent some time there, did 
you not ? 

Mr. MoORE. Oh, yes, surely. Yes. I had to spend some time. 

Mr. Halley. In 1948, what was the gross return ? 

Mr. MooRE. Staley gave it to you. 

Mr. Halley. The net there was $670,801, is that right? 

Mr. Moore. That is substantially it. If that is a copy, those figures 
are correct. 

Mr, Halley. In that year, j^our share was only 5 percent, $32,992, 
is that right? 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And in 1947, the net was $657,000, is that right? 

Mr. Moore. That is right, substantially. 

Mr. Halley. Your 5 percent paid you something like 

Mr. MooRE. You will find it on the right, a way over there. 

Mr. Halley. I find the net here, but I don't find your name there. 

Mr. ]MooRE. Yes ; it has to be on there. 

Mr. Halley. Here it is. You have changed places. Did you have 
10 percent in 1947? 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You got $65,716. 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. What happened? How did you get down from 10 to 
5 between 1947 and '48? 

Mr. MoORE. As they move people in and out, you take what you can 
get. 

INIr. Halley. There is more to it than that. 

Mr. MooRE. No, there is not. None of those partners put any money 
in there. 

Mr. Halley. Who decides who gets what? 

Mr. MooRE. You take what you can get out over there. 

Mr. Halley. How do you get it ? Do you go in and use a gim ? 
You don't. 

Mr. Moore. No: I am not the gun type. I just carry a fountain 
pen. 



190 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hai.ley. There it is. You don't use a <Tun to ^et the 10 percent 
instead of the 5? 

Mr. Moore. That is right, but you keep harmony. In order to keep 
harmony, you try to take ^Yhat you can get and do the best you can. 
OtherAvise, you don't run. 

Mr. Halley. Of course, it is better to run and to get less, than not 
run at alL 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. But that is not the story, and it just hasn't made sense 
yet, Mr. Moore. 

Mr. Moore. Tell me what you want. I don't know what more I can 
tell you. 

Mr. Halley. I want to know what happened that resulted in your 
going down from 10 to 5. 

Mr. Moore. They wanted to put other people in there and give other 
people a break. 

Mr. Halley. Who were the other people ? 

Mr. Moore. The different partners. Bev Brown, for instance, 
wanted to put some people in there. 

Mr. Halley. Is he a partner? 

Mr. Moore. No. Bev Brown is dead. 

Mr. Halley. He wanted to put some people in ? 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. What right would he have to put people in? 

Mr. Moore. Bev Brown was well liked. I personally would defer 
to his wishes any time. I have known him since I was a boy. 

Mr. Halley. Also, he controls the wire service? 

Mr. Moore. He did. 

Mr. Halley. That had something to do with it, didn't it? 

Mr. Moore. Naturally, but as a personal favor, before I would fall 
out with him or the whole thing, or have any dissension, I would 
withdraw from the thing. 

Mr. Halley. What happened in 1947? Was it Bev Brown who 
created the problem? 

Mr. Moore. I think so. 

Mr, Halley. Let's compare lOiT and 1948 and see who had what. 
In 1947, the partners split up $666,978, is that right ? That is what 
it shows. 

Mr. Moore. That is correct, then. 

Mr. Halley. In 1948, they split up $670,000, 1 believe, is that right ? 

Mr. Moore. That would be substantially correct if it is in that 
report. 

Mr. Halley. In 1947, let's compare them. In 1948, Connor had 
171/^ percent. 

The Chairman. The same. 

Mr. Halley. Quinn had 4 percent. 

The Chairman. Same. 

Mr. Halley. Quinn, K. H., had 6 percent. The first Quinn was 
John Howard, with 4 percent. The second Quinn was K. H., with 6 
pei'cent. 

Tlie Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Calcaterra had 5 percent. 

The Chairman. The same here. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 191 

Mr. Halley. Wlialen had 5. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Kimik had 5. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. WaUer Kuth had Ti/4. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mi\ Halley. And Charles Ruth had 4. 

The Chairman. Same here, 

Mr. Halley. Hallanan had 4. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Quinn, Frank J., had 4. 

The Chairman, Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Quinn, John J., had 5. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Huston, Frank, had 5. 

The Chairman. I do not see Frank Huston. 

Mr. Halley. Was he a newcomer ? 

Mr. T^Ioore. I don't think you will find Huston in there. Huston 
is the one who ran the book. 

Mr. Halley. He came in in 1948? 

Mr. MooRE. Whatever year he shows. What year have you got, 
Senator? 

The Chairman. I have 1947; he has 1948. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have a book before Huston came in, a race 
book there? 

INlr. Moore. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Halley. But Huston came in to run the book then? 

Mr. MooRE. No, he was running the book then right along. 

Mr. Halley. But he had no share in the general partnership? 

Mr. MooRE. That is right. 

Mv. Halley. Did the profits from the book go separate from the 
general profits? 

Mr. Moore. The report there is itemized. 

Mr. Halley. He was running the book, but was he on a salary in 
1947? 

Mr. Moore. He always got a salary. I think he got $10 a day, 
always did. 

^Ir. Halley. But he got nothing else? 

]\lr. MooRE. After that, they gave him a percentage of it, 5 percent. 

Mr. Halley. In 1947, he was getting $10 a day ? 

Mr. MooRE. To the best of my knowledge, he was getting $10. 

Mv. Halley. And in 1948, he "drew $32,998? 

Mr. ISIooRE. They gave him a percentage of the place, but they 
couldn't anticipate the revenue. 

The Chairman. Apparently what happened is that they took 5 
percent from you and gave it to him. Is that what happened? 

Mr. MooRE. I don't necessarily think so. They had a reorganization 
there. 

]\Ir. Halley. Let's see who else got reorganized. 

Mr. MooRE. Why don't you check the names there ? 

Mr. Halley. Kilcullen," 71/^. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

]VIr. Halley. Henry, Simon Henry, 7i/2. 



192 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halle Y. Thayer, 5. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Wall, 3. 

The Chairman. Same here. 

Mr. Halley. Moore, Gre^^ory, 5. Apparently the only one who got 
reorganized was you, Mr. Moore. 

Mr. Moore. No, you will find some reorganizations there. 

Mr. Halley. We have just finished going over them. All per- 
centages are the same. 

Mr. JMoore. My percentage was 5 percent. That is my percentage. 

Mr. Halley. Except that in 1948 you were cut from 10 to 5, and 
that 5 went to Frank Huston. 

Mr. Moore. I guess it did, but I only get 5 percent. 

Mr. Halley. Then you gave half of yours to Frank Huston ? 

Mr. MooRE. I didn't give it. I was just allotted 5 percent. 

Mr. Halley. Somebody muscled in on you, as you say in the trade. 

Mr. Moore. No, there is no muscling. Any muscle, I quit. There 
is no muscle. If I can't get along, I withdraw. 

Mr. Halley. We obviously are not going to have time, Mr. Chair- 
man, to go into this at great length, but for the record, and bearing 
in mind that you are under oath, I think all we have time to do is to 
ask you specifically and in detail, now, please, to state to the com- 
mittee the circumstances under which your interest in the Hyde Park 
Club, also known as John T. Connor, et al., doing business, and also 
as a Club, 804 and 826, Venice, 111., was cut from 10 percent in 1947 
to 5 percent in 1948. 

Mr. Moore. They simply wanted to take care of Huston, and they 
reorganized and gave Huston 5 percent because he was running the 
book, and thought he was a valuable man, and they just gave me 5 
percent. That is all I get. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio made that decision? 

Mr. Moore. I don't know. Whoever made the decision, I wasn't 
the big mogul over there ; I took whatever they gave me. 

Mr. Halley. With whom did you discuss it? 

Mr. MooRE. I didn't have any general discussion. They just re- 
organized. 

The Chairman. Who is "they"? Who was the "big mogul," Mr. 
Moore ? 

Mr. MooRE. The partners in general. 

The Chairman. Did they have a partnership meeting and talk it 
over ? 

Mr. MooRE. I never attended any meeting. 

The Chairman. Who advised you that you had been cut? That is a 
big cut that you took. 

Mr. MooRE. That is true, but that is all I have got, just the same. 

The Chairman. Wlio advised you? 

Mr. MooRE. Offhand, I coiddn't tell you who advised me. 

The Chairman. Did anybody in Chicago advise you? 

Mr. Moore. I don't know anybody in Chicago. 

The Chairman. How did you get advised, by letter? 

Mr. Moore. No. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 193 

The Chairman. I would imnghie if they were cutting you in half, 
one year you got $32,000, and cutting you in half, you would have 
raised a pretty big stir about it. 

Mr. Moore. We couldn't anticipate the future. It is a daily propo- 
sition ; you run from day to day. 

The Chairman. Why did you not tell them to cut somebody else? 

Mr. Moore. I didn't have too much to say over there. If I didn't 
have an interest in that building I wouldn't even be a partner. 

Mr. Halley. Here is John T. Conner, who had iTi/^ percent, and 
he didn't take any cut at all. 

Mr. Moore. He didn't have to. 

The Chairman. Why did he not have to? 

Mr. Moore. He is probably the biggest fellow over there. 

Mr. Halley. What makes a fellow big over there? 

Mr. Moore. I couldn't tell you. I just got in through Soy, and if 
I didn't own a part of that building the chances are I never would 
have been in there. 

Mr. Halley. Let me ask you a factual question, to which you can 
give a factual answer susceptible of proof or disproof at some later 
time. With whom did you discuss the question of the cut in your 
percentage in the Hyde Park Club? 

Mr. MooRE. I don't think there was a general discussion. When 
they o]3ened and closed intermittently 

Mr. Halley. That is not the question. With whom did you have 
any discussion ? 

Mr. MooRE. Offliand, I think they all talked about it, Calcaterra, 
Connor, and all of them. 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk about it with any of the people associated 
with Pioneer? 

Mr. MooEE. No. Bev Brown 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk about it with Molasky ? 

Mr. Moore. No; I haven't seen Molasky. Bev Brown was always 
trying to intercede for people to get them in there. 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk with Bev Brown about Huston's inter- 
est? 

Mr. Moore. I wouldn't say definitely that I did, but Brown was al- 
ways around there trying to get people in there. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any discussions with Brown about your 
giving up 5 percent to Huston ? 

Mr. MooRE. Yes. He just said, "Can you get some people in?" 
And I said, "That won't amount to anything, but whatever you want 
to do, it is all right with me." 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any discussions of that with Frank Wort- 
man? 

Mr. Moore. None whatever. 

Mr. Halley. Any whatsoever? 

Mr. Moore. None whatever, and I have known him since he was a 

Mr. Halley. You did not at any time discuss your percentage with 
Wortman ? 

Mr. Moore. No, sir ; never did. 

Mr. Halley. Now^, will you state what discussions, precisely, you 
had with Bev Brown? 



194 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Moore. I never had any precise discussions, but, for years, "when 
Ave would open and close intermittently, Brown would always ask to 
see if he could get somebody in there. 

"Sir. Halley. Was this about the time Brown was operating over 
in Illinois? 

Mr. MooRE. It was even before that. 

INIr. Halley. No ; now. Huston came in in 1948. 

Mr. MooRE. I mean Brown was dickering; Brown was always dick- 
ering, trying to get j)eople in over there. 

The Chairman. One further question. Did they pay you anything 
for this 5-percent increase? 

Mr. MooRE. It is on the income tax. 

The Chairman. I mean, in addition to the 5-percent part of the 
profit, did you ^et $10,000 or $1,000 on the side ? 

Mr. Moore. No; not a quarter. All those partners in there never 
})ut any money up. 

The Chairman. How do you get police protection over there? Do 
you pay anything for that ? 

Mr. MooRE. No, sir ; I never paid a dime. 

The Chairman. You mean you did not? 

Mr. MooRE. If there was any money paid, I know nothing about it. 

The Chairman. You could not operate without some kind of under- 
standing with the police, could you, and the sheriff ? 

Mr. Moore. I don't know those people over there. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Moore. It may be that we will want 
to go over some of these records with you at another time. 

Mr. ]\IooRE. That will be fine. I will be glad to. 

The Chairman. For now, that will be enough. 

Ml". "White. I have just one question. 

In closing, I thought I would tell you that I talked to John Connor 
about a week ago. 

Mr. Moore. That is right. 

]Mr. White. I asked him what the various partnei-s did in this and 
why they were in there. He said he needed the other partners, includ- 
ing you, like he needed another hole in the head. So what do you 
think he meant by that? 

Mr. Moore. I am not concerned. 

Mr. White. Did he mean that you were superfluous and he didn't 
need you at all, that you were forced upon him? 

IMr. Moore. I don't know. 

]\Ir. Halley. Your subpena, as you understand from the chairman, 
is simply adjourned. You are subject to call by the committee. 

Mr. Moore. I will be around. 

Mr. Halley. You are continuously under subpena. 

Mv. ^NIoore, I will be around. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

The Chairman. That is all, Mr. Moore, and thank you. 

Mr. SiGoiX)FF. I wish to make a slight correction for the record, and 
I want my man here to hear it. 

The Chairman. Surely. 

Mr. Skjoloff. Senator and Mr. Halley and :Mr. White. Mr. 
Schneider, who testified ]:)reviously — and he is slightly hard of hear- 
iiinr — mentioned the fact that in answer to a question as to the number 
of times he was arrested in St. Louis, he said to me that he had been 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 195 

arrested, he thinks, about three times, and he wants to make that 
correction. 

Also, in connection with the amount of business that Melba did, his 
impression is — and maybe he is correct — that it is how nuich that com- 
pany does at the present time and has done since 

Mr. Schneider. That was the way I understood the question. 

Mr. SiG0iX)rF. But it did a great deal more previously ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SiGOLoFF. He tells me that one year they did as much as $800,000 
in business ; is that right, Mr. Schneicler ? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Does that mean the total take? 

Mr. Schneider. Between $800,00 and $900,000. 

The Chairman, Tliat meant the total take? 

Mr. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. We appreciate that. 

Will you call Mr. Foster? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this committee 
will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Foster. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GORDON FOSTER, ACCOMPANIED BY ROBERT RUT- 
LEDGE AND GEORGE HENDRICKS, ATTORNEYS, EAST ST. LOUIS, 
ILL. 

Mr. Rutledge. My name is Robert Rutledge, attorney from East 
St. Louis, 111. — 835 Murphy Building, East St. Louis. 

Mr. Hendricks. My name is George Hendricks, 120 North Main 
Street. 

The Chairman. Mr. Foster is well represented, I can see that. 

Mr. Rittli:dge. George Hendricks" father is his attorney. His 
father had to be in court today, so he asked me to come over. George 
5s just a year out of law school. 

]Mr. Halley. You are Gordon Foster ? 

Whose records are these? 

Mr. Rutledge. The corporate records of Reliable News Service. 

Mr. Halley. Is that all you have? 

Mr. Rutledge. That is all we have. 

Mr. Foster. At the time I was subpenaed, it was approximately 
4 : 30 in the afternoon. Therefore, I had no time. This is the only 
records I had available in my personal 

Mr. Halley. You brought whatever you have? 

Mr. Foster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Are there others ? 

Mr. Foster. There are others ; yes, sir. 

Ml'. Halley. Will you produce them before the committee investi- 
gator, Mr. White, at his call next week? 

Mr. Foster. I will be glad to. 

Mr. Halley. Can we have a stipulation to that effect, sir? 

Mr. Rutledge. The records — may I make this statement : I under- 
stand the records are in the hands of an auditor 

Mr. Foster. That is correct. 

Mr. Rutledge. Who has moved, and who he is trving to locate. 



196 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. What is liis name? 

Mr. Foster. George Frank. 

Mr. Halley. Of St. Louis? 

Mr. Foster. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Is it stipulated that at the request of Mr. White, those 
records will be made available? 

Mr. Foster. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. The records now produced are hereby offered in; 
evidence. 

INIr. White. I have looked these records over, and don't think we 
will require them. Rather than have them cluttering up our files and 
taking the chance of losing them, I would rather return them to him. 

The Chairman. Are you operating now ? 

Mr. Foster. No, sir. 

The Chairman, When did you quit? 

Mr. Foster. To the best of my knowledge, I believe it was August 
30, 1947. If my attorney may consult the minute book, I can give you 
the exact date. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Foster, it may be that we will want to ask you some more 
questions about this operation, and in the event we do, we can get in 
touch with you or with one of your attorneys? 

Mr. Foster. That is right. 

The Chairman, That will be all for now. 

Call in all those who have been subpenaed and not heard as yet. 

Gentlemen, the committee and the staff are faced with the problem 
of having to catch a plane for Kansas City in just about 1 hour. We 
had hoped to talk with all of the witnesses here today. Of course, we 
are not going to be able to do it. We have not had dinner, and we 
have to go, I know you have not, either, I am sorry to have incon- 
venienced you, but I have to ask that those of you who have not testi- 
fied remain under subi:>ena, and when we do call you we will try to 
arrange it so as not to inconvenience you again. You have been very 
patient and diligent today. 

Mr. White, will you check off and see who is here, in order that we 
can have that information ? 

Mr. White. I think we have Inspector Sweeney and Captain 
Baltezor here, of the East St. Louis police. We have Leonard Davis, 
the mayor. Chief Fraundorf here. Steve Maeras, the mayor of Madi- 
son. We have Steve Ryan; and John Vitale? 

Mr. Vitale. Here, 

Mr. White. Tony Knewitz ? 

Mr. Knewitz. Here. 

Mr. White. George Morton? 

Mr, Morton. Here. 

Mr. White. Charles Goldberg? 

Mr. Goldberg, Here, 

Mr. White. Ed Hammer? 

Mr. Hammer. Here. 

Mr. White. Is there any witness here whose name I haven't called? 

Mr. Matthews. Joseph Matthews. 

Mr. White. I am sorry, sir. 

The Chairman. Is there anyone's name that Mr. White has not 
called? [No response.] 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 197 

Mr. White will be back here next week, and when he calls upon any 
of you, if you will give him such information as he wants, I think we 
might avoid having to bother any of you about coming back to a future 
committee meeting. I would ask that you do that. 

I do want to apologize to you for keeping you here all day, but we 
have just met with a situation that is beyond our control. We have 
done the best we could. 

If Mr. White can call on you and you give him the information he 
wants, if you will do that, that will probably avoid the necessity of 
another appearance. 

Thank you very much, and I am sorry to have kept you here all day. 

The committee meeting is now adjourned. 

(Thereupon, at 8 : 10 p. m.. the committee recessed, to reconvene at 
10 a. m., Wednesday, July 19, 1950, at Kansas City, Mo.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



WEDNESDAY, JULY 19, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee to Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Kansas City^ Mo. 

EXECUTIVE session 

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 : 30 a. m., in District 
Court Room Xo. 3, United States Court House, Kansas City, Mo., 
Senator Pastes Kefauver (cluiirnian) presiding. 

Present : Senator Kefauver. 

Also present : Rudolph Halley, chief counsel ; (leorge H. White, and 
John N. McCormick, investigators; Max H. (xoldschein, special assist- 
ant to the Attorney (xeneral ; James W. Connors, St. Louis Crime 
Commission; Arlon Wilson, Kansas City Crime Commission. 

The Chairman. The meeting will come to order. 

Gentlemen, this is the beginning of a hearing of the Special Com- 
mittee of the United States Senate established pursuant to Senate 
Resolution 202 for the purpose of investigating organized crime as it 
operates in interstate commerce, to make a study of whether organized 
crime utilizes the facilities of interstate commerce, which is in viola- 
tion of the law of the United States or the law of the State in which it 
occurs, also to make an inquiry, if that is established, into what politi- 
cal influences, if any, are found with law-enforcement officers or publii' 
officials. 

This particular hearing is authorized to be held by a one-man sub- 
committee pursuant to a resolution which will be read into the record 
at this })oint. 

(The resolution follows:) 

Be it and it is hereby resolved that the chairman be and he hereby is author- 
ized to designate subcommittees for the purpose of holding hearings at Miami, 
Fla., on July 18 and 14, 1950; at St. Louis, Mo., on .July IS, 1950; and at Kansas 
City. Mo., on .July 19 and 20, 1950, or at such other time as the chairman may 
specify, and that one member of the subcommittee so designated shall consti- 
tute a quorum for the purpose of conducting svich hearings, administering the 
oath and taking testimony of witnesses appearing before it, and taking such 
other action as may be appropriate. 

The Chairman. I think it may be well in the beginning to make a 
short explanation of just what the purpose of this inquiry is and the 
scope and what we expect to accomplish. 

In the first place, the committee wishes to express its appreciation 
to Judge Richard Duncan for the use of this beau.tiful courtroom and 

199 



200 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

the judge's chambers. Jiidoe Duncan and the chairman served to- 
gether in the House of Representatives for many years some time back. 
We are also grateful to the district attorney, Mr. Sam Wear, for his 
cooperation ; to the marshal, Mr. Canfield, and the members of his staff 
for their splendid cooperation in helping us in every way possible. 
Mr. Lee Hayes, with the judge, is going to assist us during the time we 
are here. 

Of course, the purpose of the investigation is to determine whether 
in the Nation there are organized syndicates which are detrimental to 
the country, which operate in violation of law, and which have an 
evil influence upon government in general. The committee has had 
many hearings before this one, and we are trying to put together the 
pieces and the bits of evidence to establish the situation. 

It will be apparent to anyone that in our consideration we cannot 
investigate every criminal activity in every section of the United 
States. That is not our province. We are not trying to take the place 
of the district attorney or of any law-enforcement officer, any State 
prosecuting attorney. We want to work with and to cooperate with 
all of these people, and we have done so and will continue to do so. 

The purpose of our inquiry is necessarily limited to getting a picture 
to determine whether or not any Federal laws should be amended, as 
to whether or not any other Federal laws should be passed to assist 
the States and local communities in handling some aspect of the organ- 
ized crime problem that is properly within the jurisdiction of the 
Federal Government. 

I think it should be stressed also that this is not an effort to take 
over by the Federal Government any prerogative or jurisdiction of 
local communities and States. We all know, and it is veiy academic of 
course, that the primary responsibility for law enforcement is local, 
that people in the communities, cities, counties, and States are going to 
have good law enforcement only if they are interested and do some- 
thing about it locall}^ 

So it is only the bigger matters or the big scope of activity that we 
can hope to get into. 

We also don't want the public to get the impression fi-om the fact 
that a person may have been called as a witness that that characterizes 
anyone who is called to testify as a racketeer or law violator because 
we call all kinds of people, everybody whom we think can give us 
information. 

The committee has had some of its top investigators in Missouri and 
Kansas City for several weeks to try to get as much information as we 
are able. This hearing is going to be executive today and tomorrow. 
We hope to finish up tomorrow. That follows our usual practice of 
having executive hearings first and then trying to evaluate and to 
weigh and to ferret out the information that we get to see just w^hat is 
important and what is not important and what should be presented in 
a public hearing. It also gives our investigators a chance to check 
records and to follow up leads and to get other information that may 
■come out in executive hearings. 

Also it is the intention of this committee to try not to throw^ around 
the names of innocent peoj^le or law-abiding citizens so that there will 
be damage done to them, and that is another reason why we try to go 
over what we have in an executive hearing before presenting it in 



ORGANIZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 201 

public. We don't want to hurt the name of any good person, but on 
the other hand if someone is engaged in an activity that is improper, 
Ave have no hesitancy in letting tlie public know about it. 

In line with our resolution we are going to do the very best job that 
we can that has been assigned to us in Kansas City as we have tried to 
do elsewhere, to ferret out the facts and to present the facts. The 
committee has with it today our chief counsel, Mr. Rudolph Halley ; 
George White, who hais spent a great deal of time in Missouri, who 
is a well known and a very capable investigator; Mr. John McCor- 
mick, who has been associated with Mr. White. 

The chairman requested the Department of Justice to assign Mr. 
Max Goldschein, who has had some operation in the State of Missouri 
and in KansavS City during previous times, to sit with and to assist 
the committee during our time here. jSIr. Goldschein already, upon 
the instructions of the Department of Justice, has given the commit- 
tee a great deal of assistance in our deliberations in Washington. 

The first thing that we will look into will be whether or not there 
is or has been illegal activities operated in interstate commerce. Any 
matter that may come up with reference to the jurisdiction of the 
committee for purposes of perjury or contempt, the committee of 
course will not only consider the testimony that may have been secured 
here but it will consider testimony that has been secured at other places 
tliat bears upon and reflects upon activities that have occurred in 
Kansas City, because this is not just a single investigation. It is a 
Nation-wide inquiry. 

xVs to when the open hearing will be held will of course depend upon 
when we can get other members of the committee away from the rather 
urgent situation we have in Washington, also when the investigators 
and staff of the committee have had a chance to go over and to follow 
up any leads and to assimilate and make the preparations for an open 
hearing. 

In our hearing now and later I want to make it clear that we are try- 
ing to do our job. Probably some people will get hurt. There is no 
intention to do anyone any damage just for the fun of it. We have 
been charged by the United States Senate with doing a job, and we 
are going to do our job fairly and fully without trying to persecute 
anyone and without whitewashing anyone. I think it should be made 
clear also that this whole problem is not a partisan one. As far as 
the connnittee is concerned, it is not one that involves politics. We 
want to present the facts, whatever they are, and let the chips fall 
where they may. That we will do. 

I think all of the witnesses for whom we have so far issued sub- 
penas have been located by the very diligent effort of the marshal and 
the deputy marshal, except four witnesses. 

Mr. Hallp]y. They are Max Jaben, George Fatall, Nicolo Impostato, 
and Vincent Chiappetta. 

The Chairman. If anyone has information about their whereabouts 
or if anyone can advise them that they are wanted for the hearing, I 
hope that they will be so advised and that they will report to the 
committee. 

The chairman of the committee does not look with very much 
pleasure upon their efforts to avoid service. I am not saying that 
these people are trying to avoid service, but while we are here, cer- 



202 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

tainly information will get to them that they are wanted, and I think 
it would be in their interest if they did appear, even tliougli a sum- 
mons may not have been served upon them. 

We are very sorry to inconvenience the witnesses. We want to 
work it out so as to have some of you back tomorrow and not keep 
you here all day. I believe Mr. Halley has a list of those who will 
not be needed for the hearing today and who wall report tomorrow\ 
I think our hearing in the morning had better start at 1) o'clock, so our 
witnesses needed for tomorrow will report at that time. 

Mr. Halley. The ones who will be excused for the remainder of the 
day but will report toinorrow morning at 9 o'clock are : 

Walter Rainey; Tano Lacoco; George Fatall (he has not yet been 
served; and if he can be served, he should report in today to let the 
committee know that he is available) ; J. A. Purdome; Lloyd Cole; 
Harry Terte; representatives of the Jefferson City Bank; Xicolo 
Impostato; James Balestrere; Joseph De Luca; Frank De Luca ; Max 
Jaben ; Joe Di Giovanni, his brother, Pete Di Giovanni ; John Blando; 
Paul Ferrantelli; and Joseph Patito. 

The other witnesses the committee will try to reach today, and we 
ask that they remain. 

The Chairman. Does anyone; have any questions they want to ask, 
any members of the press, about any matter pertaining to the hearing? 

I think we can plan on having a brief adjournment for lunch at 
12 : 30 ; and if members of the ])ress want to appear then, we may have 
some information or some announcement, anyway, at that time. Then 
the committee will adjourn at G o'clock this evening. 

Press. Senator, will there be any open hearings at all here during 
the 2 days ? 

The Chairman. It is not contemplated at the present time that we 
will have any open hearings on this visit. 

Those witnesses whose nam^s have been read need not be here today. 
I do want to say, though, that if someone has some particular reason 
that, because of emergency, you cannot be here tomorrow, or if you 
w^ould rather be here tomorrow instead of today, if you will let us 
know about it, we will try to accommodate you. We want to incon- 
venience people as little as we can. 

So if any of j-ou will get in touch with any member of the staff 
of the committee, we will try to work this out for you. 

Mr. Canfield says there is a witness room for those of you who 
remain, and those whose names have been read that we will not need 
today will not be required to stay here today but will report tomor- 
row morning. 

If there are no otlier questions, we will proceed into executive session. 

(The room was cleared at this point.) 

The Chairman. Who is our first witness? 

Mr. Halley. Robert Cohn, former police commissioner. 

The Chairman. Mr. Colin, do you solemnly swear the testimony you 
will give this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Cohn. I do. 

The Chairman. Have a seat, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 203 

TESTIMONY OF R. ROBERT COHN, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Halley. Your full name is Robert Cohn? 

Mr. CoHN. It is R. Robert Colin. 

Mr. Halley. And what is your address ? 

Mr. CoiiN. 310 East Sixty-seventh Street. Kansas City, Mo. :My 
office address is 1664 Dierks Building. 

Mr. Halley. What is your occupation? 

Mr. CoHX. I am an attorney. 

Mr. Halley. Were you formerly a member of the board of police 
connnissioners ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Halley. When did you leave that post ? 

Mr. CoHN. On May 2, 1950. 

Mr. Halley*. What were the circumstances? 

Mr. CoHN. I was asked by the Governor to resign. I refused to 
resign because I was not guilty of official misconduct. So I was fired. 

Mr. Halley. What were the reasons stated to you for your being 
discharged ? 

Mr. CoHx. There were no reasons given. In fact, the Governor 
offered me two other positions. 

^Ir. Halley. What were they? 

Mr. CoHN. One, a member of the Industrial Commission of 
Missouri, of which I formerly was a member, and also on some veterans 
job to take part time. 

Mr. Halley. Were these positions offered to j'ou publicly as a mat- 
ter of public record? 

Mr. Coiix. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. As a matter of public record were any reasons stated 
for your being discharged? 

Mr. Coiix. We had two slayings here, Charles Binaggio and 
Charles Gargotta, which added to a list of what we call spot murders, 
and the local press and certain people were upset about conditions 
here. The chamber of commerce I think adopted a resolution or sent 
a committee to the Governor stating that the people had lost confidence 
in the Police Board of Kansas City and that they ought to have a new 
board. Subsequently the committee of the chamber of commerce con- 
ferred with Col. Hampton S. Chambers, another member of the board 
and myself and later advised the Governor by committee that they 
were removing any objections as far as Colonel Chambers and myself 
were concerned, that we should be retained. However, the other two 
members of the Board — the Governor had obtained their resignations 
in the meantime, so he wanted all of us to resign. 

Mr. Halley. Did you all resign? 

Mr. CoHx. Xo, sir: Colonel Chambers and I did not resign. We 
were ousted, fired. 

Mr. Halley. The others resigned ? 

Mr. Coiix". Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state when you first became a member of 
the police board ? 

Mr. Coiix. I was appointed bv Gov. Phil M. Donnelly, in October 
of 1947. 

6895S — 51— lit. 4a 14 



204 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Did you serve continuously until the date of your 
beinjif dismissed? 

Mr. CoiiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Followino- the election of Governor Smith in Xovem- 
ber of 1948, did 3^ou receive a phone call from one John K. Noonan? 

]\rr. CoHN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. He is known as Pat Noonan ? 

Mr, CoiiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state the place where you received the 
call? 

Afr. ConN. ITe called me at my home. I want to be correct on the 
date. It M\as after the election but before Governor Smith took office, 
which was on January 10. I would say he called me at my home. 

The Chairman. Wliat year, Mr. Cohn ? 

Mr. Cohn. That was the latter part of 1947, no, it would be 1948. 

The Chairman. How long had you known Noonan ? 

Mr. Cohn. I have known Pat Noonan since 1917 when we served 
together in World War I. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state the telephone conversation ? 

Mr. Cohn. As I recall, he stated that lie had been in conference 
Vvath the governor-elect and that my name was mentioned, or he sug- 
gested my name as a member of the Kansas City Board of Election 
Commissioners. He thought it w^ould be a good idea for me to 
accept that because it was a 4-year job and was a Republican job, 
whereas being on the police board was nonpolitical and paid more 
money and would not interfere with my law business. I thanked 
him for his intei-est in me. He evinced his interest as being a war 
buddy. I told him that I liked my police work and was making a 
lot of friends and enjoyed it, and I preferred to stay on as police 
commissioner. However, if the Governor felt I could be of better 
service to the State on the election board, I would accept it. That 
was my first conversation with Mr. Noonan. 

Mr. Halley. Did he follow up on that conversation? 

Mr. Cohn. Yes. Several weeks later, I can't give you the exact 
time, he happened to be in Kansas City, I think it was before Christ- 
mas or right around that time, and he told me that he delivered my 
message to the Governor and the Governor said I could remain on 
the police board if that was where I w^anted to be. 

Mr. Halley. Can you just fill in for the committee on wiio Pat 
Noonan is, what his relationship is to this situation which would 
make a phone call from him of any importance in connection with 
(hat matter? 

Mr. Cohn. iVt the time of the original call I didn't think much of 
it other than the fact that we were both comrades and served together 
in the World War and were active in the American Legion together, 
' but later, without getting any hearsay, which was confirmed by sub- 
sequent events, it was an effort, I thought, to get me off the police 
board so another appointment could be made. 

Mr. Halley. What ha]:)pened? What were the subsequent events 
that gave you that impression ? 

Mr. Cohn. The subsequent events were that shortly after Governor 
Smith was inaugurated I was approached by friends of the late 
■■ Charlie Binaggio Avho suggested that I be on their team and to follow 
througli the program they had planned. 



ORGANIZED CRIME' IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 205 

Mr. Halley. Did they make clear what they meant by being on 
their team and following- through with the program? 

Mr. CoHN. Under the set-up of the police board there are four ap- 
pointed members by the Governor, and three make a quorum. As a 
matter of policy, changes of pei-sonnel and anything relative to police 
administration, it would take three members to set the pattern or 
adopt this policy. With Mr. J. L. (Tuck) Milligan on the board, 
a Smith appointee, as well as Sheridan Farrell, another commissioner, 
they had two police commissioners credited to the Charlie Binaggio 
group. It was necessary that they either obtain my vote and approval 
■or Colonel Chambers in order to make the desired changes which 
would enable them to carry out their progi'am. 

Mr. Halley. Just quickly, who were on the board at this time? 

Mr. CoHN. At the time? 

Mr. Halley. At the time of these conversations you are talking 
about in the early part of 1949 ? 

Mr. CoiiN. Paul S. Hamilton was the chairman of the board and 
Roger S. Miller was a member of the police board at that time. This 
was the Phil Donnellv board when the first conversation took place. 
Of course everyone, though, was interested in waiting for Governor 
Smith to make his appointments and it wasn't until about May 9, of 
1949, that J. L. (Tuck) Milligan and Sheridan Farrell were ap- 
pointed to the board. 

Mr. Halley. In the place of Hamilton and Miller? 

Mr. CoHN-. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Who else was on the board? 

Mr. CoHN. Colonel Chambers, myself, and Mayor William E. 
Kemp, who as mayor was ex officio member of the board. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any conversation with Charles Binaggio 
at the inauguration? 

Mr. CoHN. Just a very short one, just merely he stated to me that 
Tie was glad I was on the police board and he hoped I would be on their 
team. No details or anything along that line. 

Mr. Halley. Where did he say that ? 

Mr. CoHN. In one of the rooms, the lobby of the Governor Hotel 
at Jefferson City. 

Mr. Halley. You said then that you heard from friends that there 
•was this desire to work out the police board. Wiw were the friends 
and what was the conversation ? 

Mr. CoHN. My first contact was a businessman by the name of 
Harman Rosenberg who operates the Midland Lithograi^hing Co. 
here in Kansas City. He called me and asked me if I would have 
any objection to talking to Charlie Binaggio. Inasmuch as Charlie 
Binaggio was credited as the factional leader, I saw no objection, being 
a public official, to talking with him. I told Mr. Rosenberg that I 
would talk to Mr. Binaggio, which I did. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you talk to Mr. Binaggio ? 

Mr, CoH^r. I talked the first time in Mr. Rosenberg's office. Mr. 
Rosenberg was not present. It was just Mr. Binaggio and myself. 

Mr. Halley. At the office of the Midland Lithographing Co. ? 

Mr. CoHx. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. In Kansas City ? 

Mr. CoHx. Yes. 



206 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

]\rr. Halley. "Were you left alone with Biiiaggio? 

Mr. CoHN. That is correct, 

Mr. Hallet. What was the conversation ^ 

Mr. CoHN. Of course Bina<rgio started out — it so happened that 
Binap-jrio's father-in-law, Mr. Tony Bondon and I were in the Army 
together along with Pat Noonan in the One Hundred and Tenth Engi- 
neers. He talked about his father-in-law. He was glad I was on the 
board, he said, that his organization had done a great deal to elect 
Governor Smith and contributed to his campaign and to the victor 
belonged the spoils. He felt that his group was entitled to political 
patronage. He also felt the town was a little too dead and ought to 
be opened up, that he could give me the assurance that he would keep 
the town clean, that all they wanted to do was to operate two or three 
places to the exclusion of everybody else. He said that he thought 
that by doing that he could keep out-of-town gangsters out and keen 
the town fairly clean. 

Mr. Hallet. Did he say how he pro])osed to accomplish that ? 

Mr. CoHx. He thought he should have a new chief of police, a 
change in the police personnel and have men in key positions on the 
police board or in the police department that would be favorable ta 
him, Avho could be handled. 

Mr. Halley. Was there any discussion of Governor Smith at that, 
time? 

Mr. CoiiN, Well, I told him that I did not approve of the program 
and suggested to him that if that was the program that his group had, 
that was the first knowledge I had of it and I certainly diii not ap- 
prove it and that I was serving under Governor Smith and if anyone 
was to give me those orders to do things like that, it wcadd have 
to be the Governor, He assured me that the Governor v\'ould. i'f 
necessary. 

Mr, Halley, Was there anything else at that conversation? 

Mr. CoHX, He made some offers. He suggested a consideration of 
going along with them, they would rather have me go along with 
them than Colonel Chambers. I told them inasmuch as I waf; a Repub- 
lican member of the police board, and there were three Democrats 
on there, I couldn't see why he would call on me to join his team, as 
he called it. He said he preferred to do so, that my commission on 
the police board was for a longer period of time than Colonel Cham- 
bers, who was the other member, and that we had a lot of mutual 
friends, and so forth. He indicated that if I would go along, I would 
be in position to name Republican personnel to different State jobs 
or have anything I wanted. And also would be the recipient of some 
lucrative law business. Of course I turned a deaf ear to all of it 
and told him I wasn't interested. He insisted that I not give him a 
final "no" that he still wanted to talk to me about things of that kind. 

Mr. Halley. Did you give him a final "no'' at that time? 

Mr, CoHx, I thought it was final. He was quite persuasive. He 
said he would like to talk to me again and w^anted to know if I would 
see him. I said : "I guess I will have to see you, but I don't think you 
are going to change my mind.'' He wanted to know if I wanted any- 
body else with me at the next meeting with him. I suggested Mr. 
Tuck ]\ri]ligan, who is ])resident of the board and Governor Smith's 
a])):)ointee. 

Mr. Halley, Then what happened ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 207 

Mr. CoHx. A day or so later we did meet again with Mr. Binaggio 
lit the same phice. Mr. Milligan was there. He jumped on Mr. Milli- 
gan for Milligan's not telling me what their program was. He said : 
"You are going to have to get along with Bob, here, because we need 
him.-' Mr. Milligan then indicated that he woukl call me in ancl 
confide in me, and so forth and so on. That was about the extent of 
that, and more repetition of what 1 stated before, just trying to sell 
me on the idea that I should go along. 

Mr. Halley. Was ^Milligan present at the second meeting, was the 
program repeated ( 

Mr. C<uix. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HALLf:Y. AA'ould you give the detail as best you can of what 
took place in Milligan's presence ( 

Mr. CoHN. Just the fact that we ought to have a ncAv chief of police, 
that Chief Johnson didn't like the Italian people, couldn't be handled, 
that there ought to be some other changes made. The Republicans 
were holding down key spots in the police department and there ought 
to be some changes made. By inference, that there ought to be a few 
^'spots'' opened up, and so forth, just about the same as he told me. 
I can't recall the exact conversation that took place. 

INIr. Halley. AVas it repeated that, while most of the city would be 
kept clean, a few places would be allowed to remain open? 

Mr. CoHx. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And that they would be selected places. 

Mr. CoHx. That is right, by his group. 

Mr. Halley. What was the outcome of that conversation ? 

Mr. CoHx. There really wasn't anything other than Mr. Milligan 
agreed that on all matters of the police board he would consult with 
me as to what the program Avas, although there was no assurance from 
me that I would go along with any program. I agreed, possibly, that 
there should be some changes in personnel for the good of the 
department. 

Mr. Halley. Can you go ahead with the next events in the chain of 
events leading to your dismissal? 

Mr. CoHX. Several weeks went by, maybe a longer period than that, 
and I got a call from Pat Noonan stating that he was in Kansas City 
at the Phillips Hotel and wanted to know if I would come up and 
see him. I was more or less reluctant to do so, but I agreed to come 
up there. He had a suite of rooms in the Phillips Hotel. After I was 
there just a short period of time, Charlie Binaggio came in. We sat 
there and visited, and finally they discussed the changing of certain 
key personnel. Binaggio again re])eated the fact — he didn't say any- 
thing about opening up any joints or anything, but he thought that 
we could keep our present chief of police but we ought to have a new 
j^ersonnel director and we ought to move some captains around in 
different districts that M'ere favorable to him; that we had possibly 
135 civilian employees who were not under civil service but on a non- 
partisan basis, and he seemed to think his organization should have 
access and replace the civilian employees. That conversation was 
more or less along the line of personnel. 

Mr. Halley. Was there any discussion of the Kansas City police 
law with reference to these jobs? 

Mr. CoHX. Yes. I explained to him that police officers could not 
belong to any clubs; that it was nonpartisan. The same law applied 



208 ORGANIZED CRIAIE IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

to civilian employees. That it just could not be done. The police- 
force was removed fi'om politics. 

Mr. Haixey. In the meantime were any efforts made at the meetings 
of the police board to accomplish the changes about which you had' 
been discussing with Binaggio^ 

Mr. ConN. Yes. Mr. Higgins Avas put in there as adviser to the 
board. 

Mr. Halley. Will you give the committee the details about that? 
Who was Mr. Higgins ? 

Mr. CoHx. Mr. T. J. Higgins was an old law-enforcement officer 
who had been on the police department in the thirties when Mr. 
T. J. Pendergast was prosecuted. I think Mr. Hio:gins was indicted 
for perjury. 

Mr. Halley. Was he convicted ? 

Mr. CoHN. No. The charges were later dismissed. He was away 
from the department for a good many years, although he had a very 
good record as a detective. The plan was, in view of the fact we had 
had some thirteen- or fourteen-odd "s])ot'' murders, it might be well 
to get a man back who could work with stool pigeons and who had 
his own way of solving crimes, and it might be possible to at least 
solve one or two of these "spot"' murders. This place was created for 
him as consultant to the board. He was given the title of superin- 
tendent and also given the assistance of the sergeant of detectives. 
That was the first step. 

Mr. Halley. Did an}' of the members of the board oppose that 
appointment ? 

Mr. CoHN. No : none of us did. Colonel Chambers and I voted for 
it more or less reluctantly. We got the impression, inasmuch as the 
suggestion came from Mr. Milligan, president of the board, and he 
was Governor Smith's appointee, that Governor Smith wanted it. Of 
course, we were not in position to disobey the Governor, and we did 
get some favorable reaction to the original appointment of ^Ir. Hig- 
gins by reason of his past work as a detective. So we went along on 
that and permitted him to be employed. 

The Chairman. Did you know that that was an effort of Binaggio 
to get control in the police department ? 

Mr. CoHN. Binaggio later told me that. 

The Chair:\ian. Did you know at the time ? 

Mr. CoHN. No, sir. 

The Chairjvian. Did you know that he had been indicted and had 
had this trouble before ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes, sir. I called that to the attention of Mr. Milligan, 
and at that time Mr. J. L. Tuck IMiliigan's brother was district attor- 
ney, Mr. Morris Milligan. and he helped prosecute those cases, Mr. 
J. L. Milligan told me that he checked with his brother and found out 
that Mr. Higgins was all right ; that the indictment should never have 
been issued. 

Mr. Halley. Did Mr. Milligan or Mr. Farrell advocate any other 
changes in the board during this period? 

Mr. CoiiN. Not so much Mr. Farrell, but Mr. Milligan, which would 
include Farrell, because Farrell did everything and followed Mr. Mil- 
lignn's acti(ms. He suggested we have a new chief of police and sub- 
mkted the name of John Braun, a man who had been on the depart- 
ment and who had been dismissed for violation of the rules and regu- 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 209 

lations. The rumors were out on Fifteenth Street, where Binaggio's 
lieadquarters were, that several weeks before the name was submitted 
to me as a member of the police board Brami would be the next chief 
of police. The boys were almost betting as to when he would be 
appointed. I interviewed JNIr. Braun, who presently is appointed as 
a guard out at the Ford Motor Co. I used to represent the Ford Motor 
Co. as their attornej^, and I made a check and found he had a very 
good record that is in what he was doing at that time. I learned after 
interviewing Mr. Braun that he was not qualified to be chief of police. 
It was on that basis that I was able to sidetrack him. Mr. Binaggio 
later told me that he was very much interested in having Braun as 
chief of police because he could handle him. 

Mr. Halley. You did have a later conversation, then, with Bi- 
naggio ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state, then, when that was ? 

Mr. CoHN. I have had a total of four conversations with him. It 
might have been at the time we were up in the room and Pat Noonan 
was there. I am not so sure; you see, I can't recall. It was either 
the time before — it was one of the occasions. I just can't give you the 
definite date. 

Mr. Halley. What was the last conversation with Binaggio? 

Mr. CoHN. The last conversation took place in front of my home one 
evening in June ; I think the latter part of June of 1949. He called 
me, very much excited, and wanted to know if he could talk to me 
juid could see me. I said, "No, I am all undressed and relaxed." He 
said, "I live in your neighborhood. Would you have any objection if 
I would just drive overt*' 

I said, "Charlie, there is nothing for you and me to talk about. I 
have told you what my position is." 

He said, "I have just got to see you. You will see me ; won't you ?" 

So I said, "All right." He drove up in front of the house. I went 
out and sat in the car with him. He appeared to be very much dis- 
tressed. He said he was on the spot; that the boys were behind on 
their schedule and were making it hot for him. It seemed like I was 
the only one who could help him, because he couldn't do anything with 
Chambers. Governor Smith had been in since January 10, and here 
it was more than half a year gone and nothing was moving. It looked 
like nothing could happen until at least Chambers' term expired to get 
one of their men on there to vote and work with them. He seemed 
very desperate, more so than I had ever seen him before. Like a bolt 
out of a clear sky, he pulled a roll of bills out of his pocket and threw 
them at me. It took me by surprise. I just tossed them back to him 
like it was a hot rivet. He sat there for a few seconds, speechless, and 
then said to me, "Bob, are you mad at me ?" 

I said, "No, but I am disappointed." That was the last time. Then 
he tried to apologize and change the subject and so forth. But he 
gave the verj^ appearance of being on the spot. He gave the appear- 
ance of a man who was drowning. He did that — -I don't think he 
intended to do it, but he did. 

]\Ir. Halley. Did he say he was on the spot ? 

Mr. CoHN. Oh, yes ; he did. 

Mr. Halley. Did he say why he was on the spot ? 



210 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. CoHX. "Well, he said the boys had been waitinof to o'et o'oing. 
And it was common knowled<2:e, while he was the factional leader and 
was anxions for patrona<?e in the way of jobs, still there was a certain 
se<i:ment of his fol]owin<»; who were not interested in jobs. They be- 
lonoed to these rackets. He just had to take care of them. 

Mr. Hallp:y. Had they done anything to warrant his taking care 
of them? Had they made contributions, or anything like that? 

Mr. CoHN. He indicated to me that they contributed to Governor 
Smith's campaign. 

Mr. Halley. Did the mention any amounts? 

Mr. CoHN. No amounts. He didn't tell me who contributed or how 
much, but he said that they contributed not only considerable money 
but manpower to elect the Governor. Without saying definitely, he 
gave every indication or inference, at least, that the Governor knew 
about it and that was part of the consideration. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever talk to Governor Smith about this 
situation ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes ; you see, these two new men went on the board on 
May 9, 1949. I gave the Governor every benefit of the doubt. I 
thought he should know what was going on. I discussed the matter 
with Chief Johnson and Colonel Chambers. I confided in Dwight 
Brantley, who was then special agent in charge. I have talked to 
other friends who urged me not to resign. When all that pressure 
was being applied, I felt there wasn't any point in my taking all the 
abuse and pressure. I felt, if they wanted me out of there. I might 
as well step out. Some of the good citizens of this community, in- 
cluding persons from the chamber of commerce and other law-abiding 
citizens, felt that that was the thing they wanted me to do and that 
I should stay in there. Chambers and I felt the same way, and we just 
stayed in there. In order to do that, we had to do some compromising 
in order to stay in. But I did go see the Governor. 

Mr. Halley. You have just mentioned that you talked to various 
friends. To whom did you talk and discuss this matter? 

Mr. CoHN. I talked, as I say, to Dwight Brantley, the special agent 
in charge of this office at the time. I talked to Federal Judge Albert 
Ridge. I talked to several of the colonels on the Governor's staff who 
were lawyers and friends of mine. I talked to Leo Schwartz, who is 
a lawyer "in this city. I talked to Elmo Hunter, who is presently one 
of the police commissioners appointed by the Governor and a colonel 
on his staif . I talked to Lyman Field, another law\yer who is a colonel 
on the Governor's staff. 1 talked to a number on the police depart- 
ment — Chief Johnson, Chief of Detectives Frank Collins. 

]Mr. Halley. Did you tell all of these people of your conversations 
with Charles Binaggio ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes; I think so. Maybe not every one in detail, but I 
just told them enough. I think with some of them I went into a little 
more detail than others. 

Mr. Halley. Did you discuss it with Chambers? 

INIr. CoHx. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Halley. And did Chambers tell you that he had had similar 
experience? 

M)-. CoHN. Yes; only I think tliey followed different tactics toward 
him. They used a different grouj) to approach him. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 211 

Mr. Halley. You were sayino- that you did meet ^Yitll tlie Governor. 

Mr. CojiN. Yes. As I say, I was distracted from my business and 
was losing a lot of sleep and worried, and I was about to resign. I 
made up my mind after talking to some of my friends, some of whom 

1 have mentioned here, including Col. Dave Harrison, who is super- 
intendent to the State highway patrol and a life-long friend of the 
Governor, that I thought I liad better see the Governor and find out 
whether he knew it was going on. I went doAvn there on July 6 
after making an appointment for a secret meeting with him. I spent 

2 hours and told him the whole story. 

Mr. Halley. July 6? Is that 1949? 

Mr. CoHN. 1949 ; yes. sir. I told him who approached me, what 
was happening 

JNIr. Halley. You saw him at his office ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes ; at his office in Jefferson City. 

Mr, Halley. You had a formal appointment ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Go ahead. 

Mr. CouN. I told him the whole story, and he sat there in amaze- 
ment. He said he knew the newspapers and the press were using that 
before he was nominated and elected. He thought is was just political 
propaganda. I explained to him after 20 years or better friendship 
with the Governor that I was there as a personal friend of his. I 
assured him that it was not political any more or propaganda, but it 
was real, that the pressure was on. I said I felt he should know 
about it. and if he subscribed to the ])rogram, of course, I just couldn't 
go along with it. Of course he very vociferously denied knowledge 
of it. He said he was for law enforcement. He didn't Avant me to 
resign. He wanted me to stay in there, that he wasn't obligated to 
anybody, that he had made no connnitments to anybody. 

Mr. Halley. Did you discuss Pat Xoonan with him? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes; iDecause Pat Noonan indicated to me in one or 
two conversations with him that he was the Governor's contact man, 
that he came to Kansas City to straighten things out for the Governor, 
and he was going to straighten things out in St. Louis, that they were 
having trouble with the St. Louis Police Board. He gave every in- 
dication that he was speaking for the Governor. At least he was his 
right-hand man or trouble-shooter. I think that is the way he put it. 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk with the Governor about whether or not 
he was? 

Mr. CoHN. He tried to say he didn't know. He couldn't tell me 
he didn't know Pat Noonan because I knew different, but he said 
he hadn't seen him lately and didn't know what he was doing lately, 
more or less denied the fact that Noonan was a trouble-shooter. 

Mr. Halley. Did you discuss Milligan with the Governor? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes; I told the Governor very bluntly and frankly that 
after watching Mr. Milligan's associations and his conduct on the 
board, while he was his personal appointee and life-long friend, that 
I felt Tuck Milligan was selling him down the river. Of course he 
disagreed with me but at no time did he attempt to defend Mr. 
Milligan. 

The Governor was very appreciative, apparently, of my discussion 
with him. He told me more than once that he was glad I took the 
time out, and he wanted me to know that he was always for law 



212 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

enforcement and he had no commitments to anyliody and he wanted 
me to be there and do my bit toward enforcinj^ the law. 

]Mr. Halley. Did you mention Binaggio specifically to the 
Governor ? 

Mr, CoHN. Oh, yes, I did. I told the Governor about him offering 
me the money. 

Mr. Halley. Did you tell the Governor about Binaggio's talking 
about the campaign contributions? 

Mr. CoiiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Halley, What was the Governor's comments on these matters? 

Mr. CoHX. Well, I don't recall just exactly; he said, ''Well, Bob, 
you know I could have been elected without their help," which was 
probably true if you took into consideration the majority votes that 
he had. We both agreed that they probably tied up with him, that 
particular group, because he was a winner. Most of these folks were 
neither Republicans or Democrats. That element usually were 
attracted to winners whatever they were. 

Mr. Halley. After talking with the Governor, did you talk to 
anyone else? 

Mr. CoHN, Yes. As soon as I got back to town I immediately got 
hold of Colonel Chambers and repeated my conversation and my dis- 
cussion with the colonel. I got hold of Chief Johnson and told him 
the same. I felt pretty good after leaving the Governor and he told 
me he wanted all laAvs enforced and for me to stay in there and pitch. 
That gave me a little more encouragement to buck certain contem- 
plated actions that were taking place in the board meetings. 

Mr. Halley. Did various things happen within the police depart- 
ment at that time to indicate whether or not the law was being enforced 
properly ? 

Mr. ConN, We relaxed the rules as to the reemployment of men 
who were off the force for some reason or other. We extended the 
age limit and kind of broadened the qualifications, and as a result 
we had some reinstatements while we were short of manpower. The 
argument was used that we didn't have enough money to train new 
men and we had good experienced men who wanted to come back in 
the department. So there was a run of old-timers who were rein- 
stated, and we later found out they had connections with that group 
that we are discussing here. There were certain changes made in 
key places in the police department which from their associations 
gave every evidence that they were very friendly to the Binaggio 
group and that element there that we are talking about. 

Mr. Halley. Does your police law permit members of the police 
board to become members of political clubs? 

Mr. CoHN, They do not, 

Mr. Halley. Is that expressly forbidden? 

Mr. CoHN, That is expressly forbidden, 

Mr. PIalley. Did any members of your police board become mem- 
bers of any political club? 

INFr. CoTiN. This would be purely hearsay on my part, gentlemen, 
but I understand there were 60 or 70 who had joined that club. 

Mr. Halley, You mean police officers, 

Mr, CoHN, That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Would that apply to members of the board ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 213 

Mr. CoHK. I can't say as to members of the board, but the same 
law applied to members of the board. 

Mr. Halley. What clubs do you. have in mind ? 

Mr. CoHN. The Binaggio-McKissick-Clark Club, I think on 
Fifteenth Street. I don't recall their official names, whether it is 
the Jefferson Democratic Club or not. It is a club at Fifteenth and 
Holmes, I believe. 

Mr. Hallev. What happened next? Were you dismissed as you 
have indicated or were there furtlier events ? 

Mr. CoHN. Of course, there was a lot of argument through the 
newspapers as to ditferent things, a lot of publicity. From here on 
I think the public is pretty well aware of the happenings, the events, 
that followed. I think I started out in the beginning by mention- 
ing the Binaggio slayings on April 5 or 6 of this year was the start- 
ing of difficulties as far as I was concerned. 

Mr. Halley. How many unsolved murder cases does the police 
force have at this time ? 

JNIr. CoHN. I think in the last 4 years probably IT that they would 
call unsolved. 

Mr. Halley. How many were solved ? 

Mr. CoHN". I don't have my records. There was a larger number 
than that. With all due respect to what has occurred, I will say 
that we have had a good police department and still have. I think 
•our average is as good as any city its size, compared to any other city 
of its size, according to FBI reports. There are certain types of 
murders that cannot be solved and have not been. 

Mr. Halley. What types of murders are they ? 

Mr. CoHN. What is commonly known as spot murders. 

Mr. Halley. You mean gang-type murders ? 

Mr. CoHX. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Halley. Prior to talking to this committee did you make 
statements of similar purport, first to the press? 

Mr. CoHN. I don't think I went into detail. I think the day I was 
fired by the Governor I made a statement to the press which was im- 
promptu and I don't know how much I covered. I think some ele- 
ments and facts were stated to the press that you have here today. 

Mr. Halley. Xo further questions at this time, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Mr. Colin, you started legal proceedings to contest 
your dismissal ? 

Mr. CoHN. That is correct. 

The Chairman. That is with a writ of certiorari contending that 
the Governor had no right to dismiss you except for cause. 

Mr. CoHN. That is correct. 

The Chairman. Has that case been decided ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes; I am sorry to say, the supreme court ordered the 
petition filed and 10 days later denied the writ, with no comment. 

The Chairman. The supreme court is the highest court. 

Mr. CoiiN. Of the State, that is correct. 

The Chairman. Was that a unanimous opinion of the court? 

Mr. CoHN. There was no opinion rendered. Senator. I don't know, 
I haven't found out whether the court was divided or what. I was very 
much surprised after the court had accepted or ordered the filing of 
the petition, that the writ was denied with no comment. 



214 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. How many days after the Biliatigio-Gargotta slay- 
ing was it that you were removed? 

Mr. CoiiN. If I remember correctly, the slaying occurred on April 
6, and I was removed on May 2, of this year. 

The Chairman. Did you talk with Governor Smith again immedi- 
ately before your removal ? 

Mr. CoHN. Yes; he phoned me the date he fired me. That is when 
he made one offer to me, made an oifer of other employment. 

The Chairman. He said there was a general demand that something 
be done? 

Mr. CoHN. That is right, that he had to have a new board. He ap- 
])reciated my service and realized that if it had not been for Colonel 
Chambers and myself things could have been a lot worse. He appre- 
ciated the fact that we did keej) the town closed down to the point 
where he was satisfied with it. But it wasn't so many days before that 
he gave us all a clear bill of health. He just felt that politically that 
was the thing to do. He a])peared to be scared. He said, 'T just have 
to have a new deal down there. I am sorry." 

The CnAiR3iAN. What did you tell him at that time ? 

Mr. CoiiN. I told him, "Governor, you apparently are looking out 
for Forrest Smith. I have to look out for Bob Cohn. I live in Kansas 
City. I was born and raised here. I have my family here. I am not 
going to resign. I have done nothing wrong. I am not going out with 
any stigma. If you have to fire me, you are going to do it, but I want 
to tell you I am going to make some statements when I leave this room 
and they are going to be the truth."' 

He said, "Bob, I don't blame you. You look out for Bob Cohn." 
That was my last conversation with the Governor. 

The Chairman. All right, I believe that is all. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Cohn. 

]Mr. Cohn. I am glad to have met you gentlemen. 

The Chairman. You are excused, sir. If we need you any more 
we will call you. You hadn't planned to go out of town or anything? 

Mr. Cohn. You mean today or tomorrow ? I Avill be here tomorrow. 

The Chairman. I did want to ask one further question. Did any- 
body besides Binaggio try to proposition you to join in loosening these 
things up? 

Mr. Cohn. It was Binaggio himself. Noonan talked to me. He was 
interested in patronage. 

The Chairman. Did anybody else come to you ? 

Mr. Cohn. No. I have been told by somebody who I would 
rather not mention that I was a damned fool for not doing so, eA^ery- 
body else was, but I mean nobody that had any contact, any direct 
authority to speak for any group 

The Chairman. How about this fellow Spitz? 

Mr. Cohn. I don't know Spitz. I think today up here is the first 
time I shook hands with him. I never knew him before. There were 
no membei's that I knew j^ersonally. 

The (^iiAiR^iAN. Did anybody write you a letter? Did you have 
any correspondence about it ? 

Ml'. CoiiN. No correspondence. 

The Chairman. Evervthing was oral? 



ORGAXIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 215 

Mr. CoHx. That is correct. Binao-oio was the man who wanted 
to talk with nie. All the dealin<is with me were through Binaggio. 

The Chairmax. What kind of bills were those ^ 

Mr. CoHx. We had some legislation to increase 

The Chairman. I mean those bills that he offered you. 

Mr. CoHx. I couldn't see, Senator. It was a roll of bills I would 
estimate 2 inches thick. It had a rubber band around it, a round 
roll. I understood later that he was accustomed to carrying $100 bills. 
How much '2 inches thick wrai)ped around the way he had it would 
amount to, I don't know. 

The CiiAiRMAx. Did they fly apart? 

Ml-. CoHx. No, no ; there was a rubber band around them. It was 
about the size of a broomstick, I guess. 

The Chairman. What is your general law practice, Mr. Cohn? 

Mr. CoHx. I specialize in workmen's compensation litigation. I 
served under four Governors of this State. 

The CiiAiRMAX". On the police commission ? 

Mr. CoHx. Xo: on workmen's compensation. I represent insur- 
ance companies and represent some labor unions. My work is all 
civil. I have no criminal practice whatsoever. 

The Chairmax. You have never been in trouble yourself? 

]Mr. CoHx^. Xo, sir. 

The Chairmax'. Were you born hei-e ? 

Mr, Cohx. Born here. 

The Chairmax-^. How old are you, sir? 

Mr. Cohx. I was born September IT, 1898. I will be 52. 

The Chairmax. That is so old I wouldn't be able to figure. 

Mr. Cohx. Born right across the street on Missouri Avenue and 
Oak, right across the street from the old county jail. I have man- 
jiged to keep out of it since. 

The Chairmax. All right, sir. If we need you any more we will 
call you. 

Mr. Cohx. I will be glad to cooperate with you in any way. 

The Chairmax^. Thank you for your help. 

Mr. CoHN. All right, sir. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Halley. Hampton Chambers, please. 

Mr. CoiiN. I didn't mention Sam Wear when you asked me who I 
talked to. He is one of the gentlemen who suggested that I not 
resign. 

Mr. Sam Wear (United States district attorney). I knew what he 
was doing there. He was doing a good job. 

The Chairman. Mr. Chambers, do you solemnly swear the testi- 
mony you will give this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr, Chambers. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HAMPTON SMITH CHAMBERS, PRESIDENT 
HOTEL, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Halley. What is your full name ? 

Mr. Chambers. Hampton Smith Chambers. 

Mr. Halley. Where do you reside? 

Mr. Chambers. Kansas City, Mo. ; President Hotel. 

Mr. Halley. What is your occupation? 



216 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE CO:\rMERCE 

Mr. Chambers. I am sales manager for Niles & Moser Cigar Co. 

Mr. Halley. Were you formerh^ a member of the Kansas City 
Board of Police Commissioners? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Over what period of time did you serve on that board? 

Mr. Chambers. INIy 4 years were up October 14 of this year. 

Mr. Halley. Did you serve j^our full term ? 

Mr. Chambers. No. This year. October. So about 3 years and a 
half, I would say. 

Mr. Halley. Under what circumstances did A'ou discontinue serv- 
ice? 

Mr, Chambers. The famous Governor of the State fired me. 

Mr. Halley. Governor Smith? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you resign or were you fired ? 

Mr. Chambers. He asked me to resign and tried to get me to. He 
had me down there 2 days trying to get me to resign but I refused to 
resign. 

Mr. Halley. You were dismissed ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. At that time the entire board was dismissed, is that 
right? 

Mr. Chambers. The other two resigned. Those two appointees of 
his resigned. I was not his appointee. I was an appointee of Phil 
Donnelly, the ex-Governor. 

JNIr. Halley. You and Robert Cohn were hold-overs, is that right ? 

Mr. Chambers. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Governor Smith's two appointees were Milligan and 
Farrell ? 

Mr. Chambers. Farrell and Milligan. 

Mr. Halley. And the mayor served ex-officio ? 

Mr. Chambers. The mayor, yes. 

Mr. Halley. He served because of being mayor. 

Mr. Chambers. That is right. He didn't attend all the meetings. 
He could come in any time he wanted to and he had a vote. 

Mr. Halley. Prior to your resigning was there some pressure from 
the chamber of commerce for a new police board, prior to your being 
removed ? 

Mr. Chambers. Not at that time. The chamber of commerce asked 
for the resignations of Milligan and Farrell. 

Mr. Halley. What position did the chamber of commerce take with 
reference to yourself and Cohn ? 

Mr. Chambers. That I do not know except I was told by the presi- 
dent of the chamber of commerce and the committee who was with 
liim — I met with them for pretty nearly a day after they came back 
from a meeting down there with the Governor. They said they didn't 
ask the Governor for our resignations. He asked if we should stay 
on, and that all they wanted to get Avas ]\Iilligan and Farrell off the 
board. 

Mr. Halley. What is the name of the president of the chamber of 
commerce to whom you spoke ? 

Mr. Chambers. Albert Waters. He is still president of the chamber 
of commerce. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 217 

Mr. Hallet. Were there any events prior to your being fired and 
subsequent to Governor Smitli's appointment relating to tlie composi- 
tion of the board and the handling of the police department? 

Mr. Chambers. How do you mean now exactly on that ? 

Mr. Halley. Were there any suggestions made as to who should be 
chief of police, for instance ? 

jNIr. Chambers. Xo, there were not. 

Mr. Halley. Were there any suggestions made as to how the police 
department was to be run ? 

Mr. Chambers. Not to us. 

Mr. Halley. To whom were they made ? 

Mr. Chambers. I don't know that they were made to anyone ex- 
cept that^ — I don't know how to j)ut that or exactly to tell you. The 
pressure was being brought for a chief of police, a new chief, a new 
captain and a new this, by the board and by people who handled his 
campaign here. That is how it was bi'ought on. From him, from the 
Governor, of course we — he didn't tell us. We felt it came from him. 
But he didn't bring it himself. 

Mr. Halley. Who was bringing the pressure ? 

Mr. Chambers. The first pressure I got was Charlie Binaggio. 

Mr. Halley. When was that ? 

JNIr. Chambers. I didn't Icnow him. That was right about the month 
of February. Governor Smith went in in January. That is 1949, I 
think. In February he called and asked if he could talk to me. I said, 
"Why surely, anybody can talk to me. I am a public official." 

He asked me if he could meet me in my room. I said "No, I will 
meet you down in the lobby of the hotel," which I did. 

He said to me, "Are you going to play along with us or not?" 

I said, 'T don't know exactly what you mean." 

He said, "We want another chief of police and we want this captain 
down in the No. 1 district removed and another captain put in there." 

I said, "Well. I am not going to give you a new chief as long as this 
chief is doing the job he is doing. I am not going to change that 
captain, because he is honest, sincere, in that district." 

He said, "Well, evidently you are not going along with us." 

I said, "I don't care how you use it." 

He said, "Well, the Governor will be having you down before long 
to talk to you." 

I said, "That is all right. He can talk to me any time." 

Then he mentioned about another change. I said, "Why don't 
you do this? Go back and get with your friends, whoever they are, 
and write down there all the changes you want in the police board 
and bring them back to me." I said, "Then we will know what is going 
on and we will make a study." 

Of course I wanted to get it down on paper. This is what I wanted. 
He was smart enough not to do it. 

He said, "Hell, I wouldn't do that." 

I said, "Then if I don't know what is going to be done, all of it, I 
want the whole thing on here, what you want done, and then maybe 
we can talk about it later." 

But he was smart enough. He didn't put it down in black and white. 

ISlr. Halley. Did he mention who his friends were that you and he 
were referrin.ir to? 



218 ORGAXIZED CRIME IX IXTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Chambers. No, he didn't mention them by name, no. He just 
mentioned to me tliat I would be called down there. I wasn't called 
down for some time after that. He called me about 4 days before I 
got a letter from Governor Smith. He said, "You are going to have 
a letter in the next 2 or 3 days. 

Mr. Halley. Who called, you mean Binaggio ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. Called me on the plione and told me "You 
are going to be called down in the next 2 or 3 days. You had better 
get right." 

"I am not going to get right," I said, "and I am not worried about 
being called down." 

I did get the letter. As soon as I stepped into Governor Smith's 
office I said to him, "It looks like you have some leak in this office 
somewhere." 

He said, "Why?" 

I said, "Y'our political friend in Kansas City called me on the phone 
2 or 3 days ago and told me I was going to get this letter. Somebody 
evidently is telling something in here." 

So he said, "No, I don't think it came from the office." That is 
all he would say. He never did say anything more about the letter. 
But I got the letter. He went on to ask me. How about the chief? 
How about the precinct? The police department? I told him about 
the police department. I told him that since he was elected it was 
not as good as it had been for the reason that the boys were uneasy, 
the policemen were, did not know whether they were going to keep 
their jobs or not. These politicians of his were running around 
telling them all that they were not going to keep their jobs. I said, 
"It makes it pretty bad." I said, "You can correct that if you will 
come down there and make a statement." I said, "If it will help 
you any, you can also say that you had me down here to fire me, if 
it will help you with your political friends in Kansas City, and that 
I told you that I would not quit, that you would have to lire me, 
and you had no ground to fire me on." 

He said, "Hamp, I haven't got any grounds to fire you." 

I said "All right, tell them anything you want because they don't 
mean anything to me, any of them." 

Those are the words I told him. When I left there I went up to 
one State official's office after that and told him just what had hap- 
pened, just what had taken place down there. I said, "Of course, 
when I came down I expected him to ask me to resign, which I shoukl 
have done when he first went in." Some of my friends told me to 
do that, but I didn't. My other friends asked me to stay on. 

I came back from down there. I didn't hear anything for 3 or 4 
weeks. Once in a while I would get a telephone call saying, "Y^ou 
had better be careful how you drive that car." 

Mr. Halley. Who called you? 

Mr. Chambers. I don't know who in the hell it was. 

Mr. Halley. Anonymous calls? 

Mr, CnA:MBERs. Yes, about every week I got one of them. I didn't 
pay any attention. "Y"ou S. B., if you want to talk to me, if you 
don't want to tell me who you are, I will hang up." I had a lot of 
them. Two and three times every week. 

Then a fellow came right to me again. He sent a businessman to 
see me. They didn't make me any offers of any kind ever because they 
knew" better. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEA IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 219 

Mr. Halley. Wlio was the businessman who came to see you? 

Mr. Chambers. Dean Rubber Co. of North Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. What is the full name ? 

Mr. Chambers. Wilbur Dean. He just came to me and I told him 
they were wasting time. That is the statement I made to him. He 
said, "In order to satisfy you, I will talk to him." • 

He said, "Remember, I have talked to you but I haven't told you 
anything." 

I said, "No; I don't want to have you talk to me about it because 
I am not interested." 

After that they called me up and would not say who they were. 
They Avould say, "You had better get on the wagon because you can 
be driving a Cadillac instead of that old Buick you have got," or 
something. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any further talk with Binaggio ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. I had one I would say after I took that trip 
down there and came back. 

Mr. Halley. You mean your trip to see the Governor ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes ; after he had written me and I had come back. 
I think it must have been a month or 6 weeks afterward that he called 
me and asked me if he could see me again. I said, "Any time you 
want to. If it is on business or something that you want done, I am 
not going to do it unless it is right, but you can talk to me." 

He said, "Why don't you come up to the Phillips and meet me?" 

I said, "No. You come down to the hotel. I will leave the office 
and meet you in the lobby any time you want to," and I did. He just 
wanted to know, he said — I can't think of the fellow's name now but 
one of that bunch, one of that bunch he takes care of — "I am going 
to get you out of looking after the police affairs." 

I said, "What do you mean by that?" 

He said, "Well, we are going to have one man in our organization 
to take care of the police department." 

Mr. Halley. What did he mean by our organization, did you ask 
him? 

Mr. Chambers. His political organization. They had an office here 
on Fifteenth Street, you know. "My political organization. I am 
going to have to appoint one man to look after that end of it." 

Mr. Halley. Did he say who he was going to appoint ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. He named two. He said he was going to 
appoint a man by the name of Eddy Spitz or Henry McKissick, one 
or the other. He hadn't made his mind up yet. In other words, I 
said, "You are going to have a police commission down in your office 
there." 

He said, "Well, I am going to look after the police department." 

I said, "You are making a big mistake because it is not going to get 
you anywhere and it is just going to create a lot of trouble because it 
is going to get the police dissatisfied and think they have to account 
to you," and he had some thinking that. 

He said, "I am not interested in what you think," 

I said, "Let me ask you something. Do this, then. From now on 
for God's sake stay away from me. Don't come talking to me 
because I am not interested in anything you want or anything else. 
From now on just forget about it." 

08958 — 51 — pt. 4a 15 



220 ORGANIZED CRIME IN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

He said, "I am not going to bother you any more but I liaA-e another 
man I am going to appoint. Maybe he will see you," "He can see me 
if he Avants to, but it won't do him a damned bit of good." I got up 
and walked away and he did too. I never saw him or talked to him 
any more from that day on. 

Mr. Halley. Who is Spitz ? Do you know ? 

Mr. Chambers. No. I did know. I knew he was in the organiza- 
tion. I knew that he was supposed to be Binaggio's man to handle 
different things for him. 

Mr. Halley. Financial matters? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes ; all that kind of thing. I didn't know much 
about it. 

Mr. Halley. Who is McKissick, do you know ? 

Mr. Chambers. McKissick was the president of Charlie Binaggio's 
club. 

Mr. Halley. Political club ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; at that time. He has withdrawn from that 

JIOW. 

Mr. Halley. Did you speak about the police matter to anyone else ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. I talked about it to the chamber of commerce. 
They had a meeting. I told them the situation. They did nothing. 
■ Mr. Halley. Wlio did you tell it to ; who headed the meeting? 

Mr. Chambers. Eight or ten at the meeting. I don't remember who 
headed the meeting. 

Mr. Halley. Do you remember any of those who were present? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; a lot of them. It was a police committee of 
the chamber of commerce — police and fire committee. 

Mr. Halley. Give as many names as you can. 

Mr. Chambers. By golly, I couldn't give them to you but I will look 
them up. 

Mr. Halley. Can you give one? 

Mr. Chambers. Oh, yes. Hal Brace. 

Mr. Halley. Can you think of any others ? 

]Mr. Chambers. I think he is still on that committee. No ; I can't 
think of any others. Colin was there with me. I could get you all 
the names. 

Mr. Halley, Did this occur before you were both discharged ? 

Mr, Chambers. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Halley. The meeting with the chamber of commerce? 

Mr. Chambers. Oh, yes. This was 7 or 8 months before that, 

Mr, Halley, You both told the story of the pressure you were 
under ? 

Mr. Chambers, Yes ; not only the pressure, but we told that to some 
other people here who asked us in town, business people who asked 
us about it. 

The Chairman. Will you get the names of the members of the 
chamber of commerce? 

Mr. Chambers, Yes; I can get that. 

The Chairman. Today? 

Mr, Chambers. Yes, 

The Chairman, Will you give it to us? 

Mr, Chambers, Yes, I will be glad to. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COIVIMERCE 221 

(The information requested follows:) 

W. A. Weishaar Ellis B. Young 

Molton Green Frank Rope 

Robert Oppenheimer Hal Brace 

Olive Simpson George Burns 

Paul Vardeman L. Firebug 

A. T. Waterman W. J. Montgomery 

William J. Welsh 

Mr. Hallet. Chief Henry W. Johnson was chief at that time ? 
Mr. Chambers. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Halley. Was the proposal to remove Chief Johnson? 
Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Was that specifically told to you ? 
Mr. Chambers. Oh, yes. 
Mr. Halley. By whom? 

Mr. Chambers. By Charlie Binaggio. He said we had to remove 
him. 

Mr. Halley. Whom did he want to put in his place ? 
Mr. Chambers. By golly, I have forgotten that fellow's name. I 
see it in the i^apers. I can't think of it. 
Mr. Halley. Joe Braun? 
Mr. Chambers. That is the fellow. 
Mr. Halley. Did you look up Joe Braun ? 
Mr. Chambers. I didn't have to look it up. I knew about him. 
Mr. Halley. Tell the committee about Joe Braun. 
Mr. Chambers. We went over to the police department, of course, 
and they told me he wasn't a very good captain there when he was 
there. They reduced him. That he didn't get along very good when 
he was out to No. 4 police station, and that he was a pretty heavy 
drinker, and that his record as a whole was not good as a police officer. 
But I should also state to you I wasn't interested in whether he was 
a good officer or not because I wasn't going to appoint him as long as 
I was on there. You know what I mean. Anybody. I was going to 
keep the present chief there because he was doing a good job. 

Mr. Halley. Did the question of Braun's appointment come up 
before the board of commissioners ? 
Mr. Chambers. No. 
Mr. Halley. It was never raised ? 
Mr. Chambers. No. 

Mr. Halley. Was there ever any question before the board of com- 
missioners of appointing another former police officer, a man who 
had formerly been chief of detectives ? Higgins ? 
Mr. Chambers. Yes ; that came up before the board. 
Mr. Halley. Will you tell the committee about that ? 
Mr. Chambers, Yes. Milligan called all of us down to his office 
one day. He was president of the board. He said he would like to 
have a conversation with all of us together. So we did. We went 
down to his office. He said, "Now, I have talked this over with the 
Governor, and this is what he wants. This fellow Higgins is all right, 
and we have got to put him in there." 

I said, "He is too old to go on the police force." 
"Well," he said, "we will put him in there under the board." 
I said, "I don't know about it. I am not ready for that right yet. 
Let me think it over." 



222 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Then Cohn and myself talked together after we left there that 
day. We said well, maybe he can't do any harm there. Working 
under the board, he won't be on the police force. He won't be on the 
police force or draw salary from the police, but only from the board. 
So at that time we decided maybe we had better go along with him, 
if he and the Governor wants. Maybe it will ease up the other stuff. 
So I said, "Well, before we do that, of course you understand we can 
fire him if we see fit if he doesn't fit in there." 

He said he wanted to solve some of these murders and he felt if 
Higgins were there he would have connections with stool pigeons 
enough that maybe he could solve something. 

I said if he solves one of them it will be all right, it is worth his 
time. 

I told Roy, "Here is what we will do. We will make the proposition 
to him that we don't want anything else brought up. We are going to 
try this out. If it works satisfactorily, fine. If it doesn't, we are not 
going to keep him and we don't want some other changes being 
brought up later down here, Mr. Milligan, in regard to the Governor's 
say-so because I don't give a damn whether the Governor says it or 
who says it, we are not going to change things around here in the 
police department where they are correct and right and put somebody 
in and take a chance here on him," 

He said, "I won't bother you. That is the only thing I want." 

So we agreed to put him on there, and all he was to work on was 
crime — unsolved murders. That is how he got his job. 

Mr. Halley. Did he remain, confined to the job of working on 
unsolved murders? 

Mr. Chambers. He stayed there until they fired him. 

Mr. Halley. When was he fired? The record will show it. He 
was fired? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. We fired him right after the new member 
came on. Wlien Farrell went off, resigned, he appointed Elmo Hun- 
ter. Hunter came down to my room the day he was appointed by the 
Governor — 

The Chairman. Wlien was that, Mr. Chambers ? 

Mr. Chambers. That was in May, I think. 

The Chairman. Right after the Binaggio murder ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; afterward. Hunter came down to my room 
that evening, and Colin, both of them, and he said "You fellows are 
going to stay on with me." He said, "Tom" — this was Wednesday, I 
think — "Tom, I am going to be sworn in. I have my certificate all 
ready. I know that you are not happy with this fellow Higgins. He 
is not doing anything." 

I said, "No; he is not doing anything." 

"Do you all want to get him off?" 

I said, "I am ready any time you are, and have been for the last 6 
months." I said, "We have to have three votes to get him off." 

He said, "I will go along." 

I said, "You are a new member and the Governor just appointed 
you on there and you are his appointee. Roy and I are not his ap- 
pointees. So why don't you make the motion so you can get credit 
for it." I said, "Also that will relieve the police department of know- 
ing that Milligan is trying to run it. That will stir them up that 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 223 

maybe there is goino; to be something new here. Maybe we will get 
that old stuff out of the way." 

He said, "All right, I will do it." 

We went into the session that day, and we were going to ask for an 
executive session. I think the record will bear me out exactly. I 
don't know whether Cohn or I asked for an executive session. He 
said, "No ; all the newspaper people will stay in here. Let's have open 
meetings. There is no reason for an executive session." 

Then Hunter asked for Higgins to be excused instead of staying 
there and being embarrassed. Milligan said no. If we can't have ex- 
ecutive sessions, Higgins will stay there too, something to that effect. 
Hunter said, "All right, it doesn't make any difference to me. I was 
just trying to relieve him." So then he made the motion. It was sec- 
onded. And we voted on it. Of covirse they called for the roll on it 
to see how much each one voted. It was 3 to 1. He voted "no" and 
the three of us voted "yes." 

Mr. Hallet. Who voted no? 

Mr. Chambers. Milligan voted no, of course. Afterward he made 
the statement of course that he was personally responsible for Higgins 
being on there and drawing this money all this time and that he 
thought he had made a good man. So then Hunter turned and asked 
each one of us whether Higgins had reported to us on anything he 
had clone, and he said, "No ; so far as I know he has reported to no- 
body but Milligan." I said, "I don't know a thing about what he is 
doing." Cohn said the same thing. 

After that they had a list there from the personnel office of men 
who were on the eligible list to be appointed. That doesn't mean they 
are appointed. They are on the eligible list. There were a good 
many on there who were not so hot. The records didn't show anything 
against them because some of the records were missing. I made a 
personal investigation on some of them outside of the department 
from the other boys. Then I made a motion, when I saw that Hunter 
would go along with us, to wipe the slate clean and start a new list. I 
used the excuse that Hunter was coming in as a new commissioner and 
the slate should be clean so we could go along in the proper form and 
get new men and hire them. So we did. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you ever have any discussions with Milligan about 
this entire matter apart from the official discussions about Higgins? 
Did you talk to him outside of the official meetings of the board ? 

Mr. Chambers. No ; I never did. 

Mr. Hallet. In discussing the matter with Governor Smith, were 
you ever told by him that the gamblers were trying to put pressure on 
him to open up Kansas City ? 

Mr. Chambers. You mean did I tell him that? 

Mr. Hallet. Did he tell you that? 

Mr. Chambers. No. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you tell him that? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Just what did you say ? 

Mr. Chambers. I told him about the whole statement as I have 
told you a while ago, about their calling me and putting the pressure on 
me and trying to open it up, so much so that— there may have been 
two things I left out in there. 



224 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Wlien Binaggio came down to see me one time, lie said, "Will you 
meet with Farrell and myself?" 

He said, "I would like to talk this police situation over." 

That was before I went down to the Governor. 

I said, "No ; there is not use in my meeting with you because I am 
not going to do what you all want." 

He said, "Well, I think we ought to have a discussion." 

I said, "Why don't you have Milligan down there too?" 

He said, "To hell with him. We will tell him what to do." 

I said, "Well, let's don't have a meeting." 

So we didn't have a meeting. 

Mr. Halley. Did you tell that to the Governor ? 

Mr. Chambers. Absolutely I told it to him. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat did the Governor say when you told him these 
things ? 

Mr. Chambers. That is all, just rubbed his hands together and 
looked down at the floor, not a word, not one word. 

The Chairman. He didn't say anything? 

Mr. Chambers. Not a word. 

The Chairman. Neither hello or goodbye or anything ? 

Mr. Chambers. I mean when I told him about what Charlie Bi- 
naggio told me about this meeting, when I told him that Charlie 
Binaggio told me to hell with Milligan that he didn't have to worry 
about him, he could make him do as he wanted. 

The Chairman. Wlien was that conversation with the Governor? 

Mr. Chambers. That was in the summer of last year. 

Mr. Halley. That is the one on July 6 ? 

Mr. Chambers. It must have been, yes, because I remember it 
was summertime. I haven't got the dates. 

Mr. Halley. I misled you. It was Cohn who went up on July 6. 
That date stuck in my memory. 

]\Ir. Chambers. It must have been after. I went after Cohn. 

JNIr. Halley. You went after Cohn? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. How much after Cohn did you go ? 

ISIr. Chambers. It couldn't have been over a month or two. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ask for a formal appointment? 

Mr. Chambers. No, that is when he wrote me that letter. 

Mr. Halley. You went in response to his letter. 

Mr. Chambers. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. That was the letter that Binaggio had told you to 
expect ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did he call you up when you were discharged ? 

Mr. Chambers. Oh, yes. He came up here when they put the pres- 
sure on him. Mayor Kemp went down of course. 

The Chairman. This was in June of 1950 ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; and Mayor Kemp went down to see him. 
Then the mayor talked to me before he went down. Then, when 
he got back here, the mayor called me again and told me what he 
had told him, and told him if he wanted more information about it 
he was to see me and I would give him all the information on it, 
which I have always given him. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 225 

That was about 6 o'clock on Thursday. The mayor had gotten 
back from down there. He was out at his house. I said, ''Bill, 
you are awfully late." He said, "Why?" I said, "Governor Smith 
called me on my private phone at 4 : 30 and said he was coming 
down tonight." 

He said, "The hell he did." I said, "Yes." He said, "Maybe we 
got somewhere." I said, "Maybe we did." 

Anyway Smith called me at 4 : 30 and Kemp said he didn't leave 
there before 3 or 3 : 30 and said he was coming down to Kansas City. 
But he didn't M^ant anybody to know about it. Could I take care of 
him? I said, "Yes." So I didn't register him at the hotel, but I put 
him upstairs in a suite. I got over to the chief of police and told him 
to go down there and to drive down to the union station and slip him 
out. Then I arranged with the manager of the hotel to slip him in 
the back way in the elevator and take him on upstairs. I don't know 
why the secrecy, but it was. He asked for it, and we did it. 

He was there Friday night 

The Chairman. Let's get on. What was the conversation with him ? 

Mr. Chambers. At that time? 

The Chairman. Did you see him that night ? 

Mr. Chambers. Oh, yes ; he came to my room. 

The Chairman. Did he tell you you were through ? 

Mr. Chambers. No, no; not that time. He made the remark that 
"they have the pressure on me and it looks like I have got to fire or 
make those two commissioners of mine resign. They have already 
told me." 

I said, "Governor, I think you are absolutely right because the pres- 
sure is on you about those two fellows and that is all there is to it." 

He said, "I don't see any way out." He said, "I just can't do it. 
I can get Farrell, but I just can't get Milligan because he is an old 
friend of mine down in my home town," and so forth and so on. 

I said, "Well, that is up to you, but I know that you had better let 
them go because if you don't you are going to get the pressure on you." 

Then he talked to me about a lot of other stuff along that same line. 
When we got down to the final point on it, he said, "I think I can get 
Farrell out and maybe that will save everything for Milligan." 

The next day I don't know what he did all day. He had some people 
come in. Who he had come in I don't know. That night he came 
back down to my room and had dinner with me, us alone. 

The Chairman. You all have been friends a long time ? 

Mr. Chambers. Oh, no. I didn't know the fellow. I never did 
know him. Just to see him in politics. I never did know him, I mean 
to amount to anything. I knew him when I saw him. 

The Chairman. Anyway, he came down and had dinner with you. 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. Then we went back, and he said, "I want to 
have a meeting tomorrow. Do you think you can attend it?" I had 
just gotten out of the hospital and I wasn't going out. 

"Can you come up to the suite tomorrow for a meeting of the board ?" 

I said, "Yes, if you wish it." 

He said, "I would. I want you to do that for me. Also I am going 
to say that our police department is all right." 

I said, "Your police department is all right except the moral effect 
is not so good because the gangsters have been trying to i-un it. They 



226 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

have them all scared to death. They don't know whether they are 
going to keep their jobs or not." 

He said, "If I make a statement up there after the board meeting 
tomorrow, I am going to have the chief there." 

I said, "The chief is not going to tell you anything in front of the 
board. He will go along with everybody. He has to look out for 
his own job." 

He said, "I am going to do that and make a statement. Will you 
endorse the statement?" 

I said, "I have got to see it first." 

He said, "I just wanted to know whether you would go along with 
me to help us." 

I said, "All right, I will see it." 

The next day he went up there and had the meeting and then he 
wrote this statement out. Then Milligan wrote another statement 
out approving the Governor's statement, you see what I mean. 

Neither one of them was too bad. So the four commissioners went 
along. 

The Chairman. What do you mean went along? 

Mr. Chambers. In other words, they endorsed — Smith made the 
statement that the police department was a ^ood department. 

The Chairman. And what did he say about the board of com- 
missioners? 

Mr. Chambers. And the police commissioners were all right. At 
that time — I don't know 

The Chairman. Did you endorse that? 

Mr. Chambers. That the police were good ; yes. 

The Chairman. That the police board was a good board ? 

Mr. Chambers. No ; he didn't say that in his statement. He didn't 
say anything about the police board in liis statement, just the police 
department. 

The Chairman. That includes the board, doesn't it? 

Mr. Chambers. Well, I don't know. Maybe it does. I wouldn't 
say. I don't know about that legally. It is supposed to be appointed 
by the Governor separate entirely. 

The Chairman. What did you say? 

Mr. Chambers. In this statement? 

The Chairman. Did you make an oral statement or a written state- 
ment? 

Mr. Chambers. No; a written statement. We wrote a statement 
out approving what the Governor said about the police department, 
not about the board at all, but the police department at that time. 
He went back, slipped him out the back, the chief did, got him on 
the train and he went back. That is when he went down and changed 
his mind again and that is when he called me again and asked if I 
would resign. I said, "Not under pressure, I haven't got long to stay 
in there but under pressure I won't resign. No." 

He said, "Well, it is under pressure because the chamber of com- 
merce and two or three other people he named hit me to get a new 
board." 

I said, "All right, I am not going to resign. You can file charges. 
That is what you promised me you would do." 

He said, "Well, I haven't got any charges to file. I sent them up 
to Buck Taylor and Buck says there are no charges there." 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 227 

I said, "That is up to you. I am not going to resign." 

He sent for me to come down again. I was down there Monday 
afternoon 2 hours with him, Tuesday morning from 10 to 12 

The Chairman. What happened? 

Mr. Chambers. Nothing. 

The Chair]man. Did you see him? 

Mr. Chambers. Only that he kept telling me I had to resign to 
help him out and all this and that. I said, "I am not interested in 
helping you and I am not going to resign." 

The Chairman. Did the chamber of commerce call for the resig- 
nation of all four of the commissioners ? 

Mr. Chambers. The paper said afterward they did. I have never 
been able to find it out. I can't tell you that. 

The Chairman. Then nothing happened on that last visit except 
that you were fired? . 

Mr. Chambers. That is all. 

The Chairman. Did you file a suit ? 

Mr. Chambers. Oh, no. I made a statement afterward when he 
fired me that I was fired, that I am through, and I made a statement 
about certain conditions and things. 

The Chairman. Tell us the names of all the people that ever tried 
to get you to change the operation of the police department. Binag- 
gio, and who else ? 

Mr. Chambers. He was the principal one. 

The Chairman. Not the only principal one. 

Mr. Chambers. JNIcKissick and Binaggio are about the only two. 

The Chairman. Who of the others, who else ? 

Mr, Chambers. You mean who tried to change anything? 

The Chaieman. Yes; who tried to get you to have laxer law en- 
forcement, to change the personnel of the police department? 

Mr. Chambers. Farrell talked to me two or three times, but he 
didn't insist on anything. He just talked to me about it. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell ? 

Mr. Chambers. He asked if I would go along with him on certain 
things, and I said, "Wliat are they?" There were a few things he 
wanted to change, himself. 

The Chairman. Did Farrell and Milligan talk with you about firing 
Johnson and putting in this other fellow? 

Mr. Chambers. No. 

The Chairman. They never mentioned it to you ? 

Mr. Chambers. No; never have mentioned it to me. They did all 
their work through Mulligin. 

Mr. Halley. Are you familiar with the bulletins put out by the 
Kansas City Police Department ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. I am not familiar, no, but I can tell you what 
went out, whether they did or not. 

Mr. Hallet. Coulci you state whether on February 27, 1950, a bulle- 
tin went out in which Police Chief Henry W. Johnson made the follow- 
ing statements, quote : 

Increase in crime, falling off in arrests, and decrease in suspects and show-up 
have followed let-down in field activity. Responsibility for this condition rests 
with the patrolmen who are failing in their duties, the field sergeants who are 
not requiring full police duty from the men in their command, and the district 
commanders, who are not close with what is going on. Disciplinary action for 



228 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

neglect of duty is the inevitable result of failure. All ranks will be guided 
accordingly in the performance of their duties. Clearances of major crimes are 
far below what they should be, indicating detectives and plain-clothes-men are 
falling down in their investigative work. 

Do you remember that? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. Hallet. That was issued shortly before the Governor induced 
the police board, as you put it, to go along with his statement that the 
police department was all right ; is that right ? 

Mr. Chambers. I couldn't answer that. I could look it up. 

The Chairman. One was February 22. 

Mr. Chambers. It must have been because it was after this; that is 
right. 

Mr. Halley. How could the board go along with a statement that 
the police department was all right in the light of the bulletin issued 
by the chief of police on February 27 ? 

Mr. Chamb-ers. If you had that statement here that he made, of 
course, you would see a little difference in it. We had to correct his 
statement a little bit. The chief did, too. He was saying that our 
crime condition was better. We corrected that. The statement 
covered — I can't tell you exactly what the statement covered, but it 
wasn't too bad. The facts were about right in the statement. 

Mr. Halley. You then took care in the statement to get around the 
facts? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, that is right. He did, because he had some 
things in there that weren't true and the chief and myself called him 
on the things right off the bat if I remember correctly. Then he 
rewrote it. 

The Chairman. Do you think Chief Johnson is a good police chief ? 

Mr. Chambers. I certainly do. I have no reason to believe 
otherwise. 

The Chairman. How much experience have you had to know 
whether he is a good chief or not? 

Mr. Chambers. I have had 3I/2 years. 

The Chairman. Do you think that is the general impression here in 
Kansas City? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. The general impression here is that Chief 
Johnson is a good man, a straight shooter, and I don't believe 

The Chairman, The general impression is that you have had an 
awful lot of law violation out here. That is the general impression in 
the country at large. 

Mr. Chambers. I don't think. Senator, it will show that we are any 
different from most places. You have some spot murders, yes, but as 
far as crime and all that, I think our record will show up pretty good. 
Tlie FBI shows us with very good records. 

The Chairman. For a long time you have had bookie operations, you 
have had gambling operations 

Mv. Chambers. We have had some of that, but we certainly did raid 
tliem on it. You understand we started that bookie operation some 
time ago, trying to get rid of that stuff. The circuit court issued an 
injunction against this place and we couldn't touch it. 

The Chairman. What place? This wire service place? 

Mr. Chambeus. Yes. They issued an injunction against it and we 
couldn't touch it. We were going to chop it up one day, and they had 
an injunction against us and we could not do a thing about it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 229 

The Chairman. Is that the Mo-Kan Harmony News Service ? 

Mr. Chambers. That is the one I am thinking about, yes, sir. We 
had axes and were going to chop it all up, and this is when Phil Don- 
nelly was Governor. 

The Chairman. Did you have your ax out, Mr. Chambers? 

Mr. Chambers. No, I never carried one, except on some people I 
would like to carry one for [laughter]. We raided these places. 
Things were pretty bad there for a while. 

The Chairman. So you don't think anybody has reached Chief 
Johnson ? 

Mr. Chambers. I do not, I certainly do not. I don't think any- 
body can reach Chief Johnson or Frank Collins, the chief of detectives. 
I think those two fellows are absolutely honest. That is my honest 
opinion. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have any opinion about Lester W. Kircher, 
who is in charge of the downtown district? 

Mr. Chambers. That is my man that they wanted to move. That is 
the captain they wanted to move. 

Mr. PIalley. Who wanted to move him ? 

Mr. Chambers. Binaggio's men. I told you they wanted to move 
the captain from that district so he could bring another captain from 
another district in there. 

Mr. Halley. Is Kircher the man who would be in charge of the 
gambling and raiding vice places? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. But the raid squad generally handles most 
of that stuff. 

Mr. Halley. AVould that be under Kircher? 

Mr. Chambers. No ; the raid squad is under Captain Parker. 

Mr. Halley. What does Kircher have in his duties ? 

Mr. Chambers. He is supposed to look after everything, gambling, 
too, but the raiding squad generally handles gambling. He handles 
everything else. 

Mr. Halley. Do 3"0u consider Kircher an honest policeman? 

Mr. Chambers, Absolutely. 

Mr. Halley. An able policeman ? 

Mr. Chambers, Absolutely, 

Mr. Halley, Wlio sought his removal, Binaggio ? 

Mr, Chambers, Binaggio, 

Mr. Halley. Anj^one else? Did anyone else speak to you about it? 

Mr. Chambers. McKissick and Binaggio, both the same. 

Mr, Halley. Did Spitz speak to you about Kircher ? 

Mr, Chambers, I don't know, 

Mr. Halley, Did McKissick? 

Mr. Chambers, A lot of them did, but I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. Who do you remember? 

Mr. Chambers. Those two are all I remember putting the pressure 
on me. 

Mr. Halley. What did he say? Take Binaggio first. 

Mr. Chambers. He said, "We have to have that captain down there 
and that man has to go. He is too strict with us." 

Mr. Halley. Did Kircher go or stay ? 

Mr. Chambers. He stayed. 

Mr. Halley. He went? 

Mr. Chambers. No, sir ; he never did go. He is still there. 



230 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Did Binaggio say Avliy he had to have that job? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, because this man wouldn't do it. He said he 
has it in for us and there is no reason to keep him there. 

Mr. Halley. He has it in for tis ? 

Mr. Chambers. That is what he said. 

Mr. Halley. Did he say he was making arrests ? 

Mr. Chambers. He didn't go into any details at all. Of course I 
knew what he meant when he said it. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat did McKissick say ? 

Mr. Chambers. Along the same lines. 

Mr. Halley. Anything different ? 

Mr. Chambers. No. 

Mr. Halley. He didn't use the same language ? 

Mr. Chambers. Not exactly, but he would say to me, "Now, we want 
to do this and you better go along with us." 

Of course I have known McKissick for some time. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you known McKissick ? 

Mr. Chambers. I think maybe 20 years anyway. 

Mr. Halley. Did he speak to you about this matter of the removal? 

Mr. Chambers. In the lobby of the hotel, the President. 

Mr. Halley. Did he come to find you? Did he have an appoint- 
ment ? 

Mr. Chambers. He called me and asked me for an appointment and 
I said, "I will meet you downstairs in the lobby." 

Mr. Halley. I think that is all. 

The Chairman. That is all, Mr. Chambers. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Chambers. Thank you, sir. 

The Chairman. If we need you any more we will call you, sir. 

Mr. Chambers. I will get that list as soon as I can from the chamber 
of commerce. 

The Chairman. And a copy of any resolution the chamber of com- 
merce filed, if there was any or any official action they took. Did you 
have any letters from anybody asking you to make any concessions? 

Mr. Chambers. No. 

The Chairman. Do you have any letters or documents which would 
be of help to the committee ? 

Mr. Chambers. No, I don't think so on this. Of course on the gam- 
bling situation you got that from the police files. I have a list on all 
that stufl' I keep. 

The Chairman. No, we don't need that from you. Thank you, Mr. 
Chambers. 

( Discussion off the record. ) 

The Chairman. The committee is recessed until 1 : 45. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 30 p. m. the committee recessed until 1 : 45 p. m. 
the same day.) 

afternoon session 

("Whereupon, the committee reconvened at 1 : 45 p. m. pursuant to 
the taking of the noon recess.) 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Milligan, do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give this committee will be the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Milligan. I do. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEt IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 231 

TESTIMONY OF JACOB L. MILLIGAN, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Hallet. "What is your full name ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Jacob L. Milligan. 

Mr. Hallet. Where do you reside, Mr. Milligan ? 

Mr. Milligan. 501 Knickerbocker Place, Kansas City. 

Mr. Hallet. Missouri ? 

Mr. Milligan. Missouri. 

Mr. Hallet. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Milligan. Lawyer. 

Mr. Hallet. "VVliere is your business ? 

Mr. Milligan. 1002 Walnut. 

Mr. Hallet. "\^'Tiat is the name of your law firm ? 

Mr. Milligan. Milligan & Deacy. 

Mr. Hallet. Mr. Milligan, were you ever a member of the Board 
of Police Commissioners of Kansas City ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. When did you become a member ? 

Mr. Milligan. I think I was sworn in on the 8th or 9th of May. 

Mr. Hallet. 1949? 

Mr. Milligan. 1949. 

Mr. Hallet. When did you leave the commission ? 

Mr. Milligan. I resigned — I don't remember the exact date — 
around the 1st of Mav of this year. 

Mr. Hallet. 1950l 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Was it not around the 1st of June, Mr. Milligan? 

Mr. Milligan. The 1st of May as I remember. 

The Chairman. Wlien were Binaggio and Gargotta killed ? 

Mr. Milligan. April. 

Mr. Hallet. Under what circumstances did you resign ? 

Mr. Milligan. Well, I just wrote the Governor a letter and 
resigned. 

Mr. Hallet. Did anybody ask for your resignation ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you discuss it with anybody before you resigned? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't think so. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you discuss it with the Governor ? 

Mr. Milligan. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Hallet. Neither by telephone nor directly? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you discuss it with Charles Binaggio ? 

Mr. Milligan. He was dead. 

Mr. Hallet. You resigned after he was murdered? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. Would you state to the committee who recommended 
your appointment? 

Mr. Milligan. No one. The Governor appointed me. 

Mr. Hallet. The Governor appointed you ? . 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. Wlien did you first learn that you might be appointed ? 

Mr. Milligan. Some time in January of 1949. 



232 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. After the election of Governor Smitli? 

Mr. INIiLLiGAN. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. Who first told you about it? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. The Governor. 

Mr. Halley. Did you go to see him ? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. How was it communicated to you ? 

IVIr. MiLLiGAN, He was in Kansas City and he told me he was going 
to appoint me president of the police board, and I protested very 
vehemently that I was out of politics and I didn't want a job like 
that. In fact. I didn't want any kind of a job. 

Mr. Halley. Where did this conversation take place? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. In my apartment. 

Mr. Halley. At your apartment ? 

Mr. IVTiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. lYliere is your apartment ? 

Mr, MiLLiGAN. 510 Knickerbocker Place. 

Mr. Halley. That is the same place you reside now ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

My. Halley. He came to see you ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. He was in Kansas City and visiting 
his daughter, as I remember it. 

Mr. Halley. Was he alone? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. And there was nobody present but you two ? 

ISIr. Milligan. My wife. 

Mr. Halley. Your wife was present. 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you agree to accept at that time ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Halley. What happened?. 

Mr. Milligan. I protested that I didn't want the appointment, that 
it was one of the hottest spots in the State as a political appointment, 
and I did not want it. We sort of left it in that way. 

He said he wanted me to accept it because he was asking me to, to 
protect his interests. 

Mr. Halley, Did he explain how you would be protecting his 
interests ? 

Mr. ]\IiLLiGAN. How is that ? 

Mr. Halley. Did he explain how you were to protect his interests? 

Mr. Milligan. I presume— he didn't explain it. I made the as- 
sumption that he did it because I had known him all my life; we were 
born on neighboring farms in Rhea County. I had known him all 
mv life. 

Mr. Halley, Did you ever discuss your appointment with Charles 
Binaggio? 

Mv. Milligan. I did not. 

Mr. Halley. After you were appointed did you ever discuss the 
police department or the board of police commissioners with Charles 
ijinaggio? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was the first -occasion on which you had such 
a discussion ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 233 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Sometime after I was appointed. There had been 
newspaper reports and rumors that Binaggio had me appointed presi- 
dent of the police board, and there were also rumors about the town 
was going to open up. I called Binaggio and asked him to come to 
my office. 

The Chairman. When was this, approximately, Mr. Milligan? 

Mr. Milligan. I can't tell you, Senator. 

The Chairman. It was shortly after you went on ? 

Mr. Milligan. Shortly after I was appointed. I told him very 
plainly that I owed no political obligation to him, that he had nothing 
to do with my appointment, that I was the personal appointment of 
the Governor. I also went into other detail that if all this stuff was 
true about him, which I knew nothing about, being engaged in these 
different activities as charged by the newspapers, he had better get 
out as the political leader. 

Mr. Halley. What did he say to that ? 

Mr. Milligan. He agreed with me. 

Mr. Halley. Did he get out ? 

Mr. ]\IiLLiGAN. No. This is rumor. I understood he was going 
to get out before he was killed . . 

Mr. Halley. In other words, at this time you didn't know that he 
had various gambling interests? 

Mr. MiijLiGAN. No, I didn't know. I had heard it, of course, rumors. 

Mr. Halley. You had no personal knowledge ? 

Mr. Milligan. No personal knowledge, no, 

]\Ir. Halley. In your j:)rivate law practice did you ever represent 
Charles Binaggio ? 

Mr. Milligan. I never did. 

Mr. Halley. Never in an}^ respect whatsoever ? 

Mr. Milligan. Directly or indirectly that I ever knew of. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever represent any member of his family ? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. Or did any member of your law firm or your law firm 
ever represent him or any member of his family ? 

Mr. AliLLiGAN. I am sure they did not. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever represent Ace Sales Co.? 

Mr. Milligan. No, Wait a minute. Ace Sales ? Is that the equip- 
ment company? My partner represented Ralph Spitscaufsky, who is 
a member of those sales people. 

Mr. Halley. How long did he represent them ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't know, because he represented the family who 
had been contractors for a number of years. 

jMr. Halley. They were in the contracting business; is that right? 

ISIr. Milligan. His father was. I think his name is Hyman 
Spitscaufsky. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you know that Binaggio was connected with 
Ace Sales? 

Mr. Milligan. I didn't at that time. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know it now ? 

Mr. Milligan. I heard he was, yes. 

Mr. Halley. How long had you know Binaggio ? 

Mr. Milligan. I hadn't known him very long. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you first meet him ? 



234 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MiLLTGAN. I couldn't tell you ; in fact, I never got acquainted 
with him actually. I may have seen him or met him or something. 
I never got acquainted with him until the campaign, the primary in 
nineteen forty 

Mr. Halley. 1948 ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you become acquainted with him during that 
campaign ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you make a political contribution during that 
campaign ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you solicit any political contributions ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I did not. 

Mr. Halley. Did you collect any ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you do any work in that campaign ? 

Mr. JNIilligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Just what did you do? 

Mr. Milligan. I managed that campaign for Jackson County. I 
went in and opened headquarters July 1, 1948. We closed the cam- 
paign as I remember it — the first part of August, the first Monday after 
the first Tuesday. 

Mr. Halley. Is that all you did ? 

INIr. Milligan. That is all. 

Mr. Halley. Did you represent Pat Noonan at any time ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. In what connection did you represent Pat Noonan ? 

Mr. Milligan. Pat Noonan was indicted for violation of the pro- 
hibition law back in 1932, along in that time. 

Mr. Halley. Were you his counsel in that case ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever represent Joe De Luca ? 

Mr. Milligan. Joe De Luca ? In what capacity ? 

Mr. Halley. In any capacity. 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state what it was ? 

Mr. Milligan. I repreesnted him — not in the trial of his case. He 
had a case pending in the district court or the court of appeals. I 
represented him in presenting application for parole in Washington. 

JMr. Halley. In what year ? 

Mr. Milligan. It was early 1940's, I believe. I couldn't say. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever represent Frank De Luca? 

Mr. Milligan. No, sir. I don't even Imow either one of them. 

Mr. Halley. Joe De Luca had been convicted for a narcotics viola- 
tion ; is that right? 

]\Ir. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever represent Tony Gizzo ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Or Snag Klein? 

Mr. Milligan, No, sir. 

jNIr. Halley. Or Walter Kainey ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 235 

Mr. Hallet. Tano Lacoco? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. George Fatall ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Harry Terte ? Nicole Impostato ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. James Balestrere? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Max Jaben? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Joe Di Giovanni? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. John Blando? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Vincent Chiappetta? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Paul Ferrantelli ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. I don't know most of these people you kre 
calling the names of. 

Mr. Halley. You don't know the names at all ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I know I did not represent them. 

Mr. Halley. Joseph Patito? 

Mr. Milligan. Joe Patito is a lawyer himself. 

Mr. Halley. You never have been associated with him in any case ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state what it was ? 

Mr. Milligan. That was the De Luca case. 

Mr. H^vLLEY. Did Patito try that case ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't know who tried that. He had several lawyers. 

Mr. Halley. Was it he who brought the case to you ? 

Mr. Milligan. I wasn't in the case proper. This was after the 
man 

Mr. Halley. You handled his parole ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. It has been reported in the newspapers that you fav- 
ored 

Mr. Milligan. Which one, if you are going to newspapers, which 
newspapers ? 

Mr. Halley. I won't specify it. You can deny it. I am not 
testifying. 

Mr. Milligan. You said newspapers. 

Mr. Halley. But it has been reported that you favored an open 
city ; that is, it lacked enforcement of the laws against gambling. Is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is not true. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state what your stand on that subject 
matter is ? 

Mr. Milligan. I directed at all times any police officer to enforce 
every law under his jurisdiction, and if that is a Post-Dispatch, I can 
explain that to you. 

Mr. Halley. Go ahead. 

Mr. Milligan. Mr. McCullough told me that there was a mistake 
at the office ; that he did not write that article that I was for an open 

68958—51 — pt. 4a 16 



236 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

town, that they put that in in the office. He told me that on the day 
I resigned over here outside the police department. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever issue a public denial that you were for 
an open town ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When did you do that ? 

Mr. MiLLTGAN. At all times, numerous times. 

Mr. Halley. '\^nien you were first named to the police force did 
you make any public statement? 

Mr. JNIilligan. Yes, sir ; the whole board made a statement. 

Mr. Halley. What statement was made ? 

JNIr. IVIiLLiGAN. That the police department was to enforce all laws 
under their jurisdiction and along that line. 

Mr. Halley. Do you recall one Thomas J. Higgins? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did joii nominate him for a position on the police 
board shortly after your appointment ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Would you state the full circumstances surrounding 
that? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I was appointed on the police board, and we heard 
a lot of rumors. I knew nobody down at the police department. I 
wanted someone to be in a position to advise the board as to what 
was going on and to help solve the murder cases that were open and 
to prevent them in the future, if possible. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know at that time that Higgins had formerly 
been removed from the police force? 

Mr. Milligax. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did that affect your judgment in any way? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. Did certain members of the police board object to the 
appointment of Higgins ? 

Mr. Milligan. They didn't at the time. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't there considerable discussion about it? 

Mr. INIiLLiGAN. No, not particularly. I checked up on Higgins and 
called the members of the board in and told them what I contem- 
plated and suggested that each one of them check his records, and 
they did, apparently, and shortly after that 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't it worked out as a compromise that Higgins 
would not serve on the force itself but would serve directly under 
the board of police commissioners ? 

Mr. Milligan. He was superintendent adviser to the board. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't that worked out because the other members 
of the board didn't trust him to serve on the force ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, no, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Is Higgins still there? 

Mr. iVllLLIGAN. No. 

jSIr. Halley. Was he removed ? 
Mr. INIiLLiGAN. He was removed. 
Mv. Halley. Under what circumstances? 

Mr. jNIilligan. He was removed by the board on the day I resigned. 
Mr. Halley. Was he kept in there until you resigned because of 
your insistence that he be kept ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME' IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 237 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No; I didn't insist. There wasn't any one object- 
ing to him. 

Mr. Hallet. Did the other members of the board go along simply 
because he made it clear that the Governor wanted him ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I don't know the reason they went along. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you take the position that the Governor wanted 
Higgins ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAX. I did not, because I did not consult the Governor 
about it, and he knew no more about it than you did. 

Mr. Hallet. Assuming that you said nothing to the Governor about 
it, did you say anything to the other members of the board about it? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. 1 did. I told you I did. 

Mr. Halley. That the Governor wanted Higgins? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I did not make that statement. 

Mr. Halley. At no time? 

Mr. Milliga:n^. At no time. 

Mr. Halley. To any member of the board ? 

Mr. Milligan. Because if the Governor had wanted him it wouldn't 
have been true, because I didn't consult the Governor about it. I did 
Dot. 

Mr. Halley. You were asked to resign, were j'ou not, after Binag- 
gio's murder? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I was not. 

Mr. Halley. Did you resign of your own initiative? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I certainly did. 

Mr. Halley. You had no discussion with the Governor about it? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I did not. 

Mr. Halley. Or with anyone else? 

Mr. MiLLiGxVN. With anyone else. I wrote the letter in my own 
office. 

Mr. Halley. What impelled you to do that ? 

Mr. Milligan. As I explained to the Governor, there was all this 
newspaper fighting, and I explained in my letter, it was all in the 
newspaper that Binaggio controlled the police board and Binaggio 
and the gamblers were going to open up, and all that stuff. They used 
it in Smith's primary campaign, the g-eneral election campaign, and 
they continued to use it after he was inaugurated. 

Mr. Halley. Did you speak to the Governor at all or just write 
this letter? 

Mr. Milligan. I wrote the letter and took it down in person. 

Mr. Halley. Did you think you might be embarrassing the Gover- 
nor ? He appointed you and put a certain confidence in you. 
Mr. MiLLiGAx. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You have testified that when he appointed you he said 
he needed you on the board. 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 
]\Ir. Halley. And you took it as his old friend. 
Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley, Yet without any discussion with him, at a time when 
the general situation was most embarrassing you simply put a resigna- 
tion in to the mails, is that right? 

Mr. Milligan. No, I did not. I told you I took it down there in 
person. 



238 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. And handed it to liim. Wliat did he say at that time?' 
Mr. MiLLiGAN. I explained to him the situation as it was, the news- 
papers were figliting about it, and he had better accept the resignation. 
I, because of my law practice and my family, was tired of being 
harassed by the newspapers with statements that weren't true. He 
took it and said "I don't know what I will do with it." I urged him 
to accept it. 

Mr. Hallet. Was there any discussion about the resignation of any 
of the other commissioners at that time? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. No. 

Mr. Hallet. You were appointed at the same time as Commissioner 
Farrell, weren't you ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes. Farrell had already resigned. 

Mr. Hallet. You were both Governor Smith's appointees, is that 
right? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you discuss your resignation with Farrell ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, sir. He had already resigned from the board. 

Mr. Hallet. Had he stated any reason for his resignation ? 

Mr. Milligan. He stated on account of — I don't remember exactly, 
but something about because of his business or something. 

Mr. Hallet. The chamber of commerce had made very strong 
representations that the citizens were dissatisfied with the police board, 
had they not ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. They did some time. I don't know whether it was 
that time or not. I think prior to that — what date do you mean ? 

Mr. Hallet. Prior to your resignation. 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. It was prior to that time, a short time. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you ever discuss with the Governor the chamber of 
commerce statements? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I may have asked him about it. I don't remember. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you think you talked to him about it in person ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Wlien I was there and took this letter down there, 
I maj^ have discussed it. I imagine I did. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you talk to the Governor about it at all before you 
took the letter of resignation ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir; because I hadn't seen him in quite some 
time or over the telephone. 

Mr. Hallet. Had you talked to him over the telephone ? 

Mr. IVIiLLiGAN. No, I had not. 

Mr. Hallet. You had no conversations with the Governor? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, except when he was here some time 2 or 3 weeks 
prior to this time. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you think the police force was an efficient organ- 
ization during the period of your tenure ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I think it could have been more efficient. 

Mr. Hallet. Were you satisfied with it ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. 

Mr. Hallet. What did you do about your dissatisfaction ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. We made different changes, recommendations were 
made. 

Mr. Hallet. Who made these changes and recommendations ? 

Mr. Milligan. The chief made some. The chief made all of the 
changes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 239 

Mr. Halley. Did he get the suggestions from you ? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you make efforts to have the chief supplanted ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I did not. 

Mr. Halley. Two members of the board of police commissioners 
liave testified before this committee, and both of them testified that 
you suggested changes in the position of chief of police. 

Mr. Milligan. I did not. I didn't suggest any changes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you at no time suggest any change in the position 
•of chief of police ? 

Mr. Milligan. To the members of the board? 

Mr. Halley. To the members of the board. 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

The Chairman. Or to anybody ? 

Mr. Halley. To which one else ? 

Mr. Milligan. To anyone else, no. The Governor appointed me 
and Mr. Farrell because he wanted all the laws enforced, particularly 
'On gambling, and wanted these murder cases solved, if possible, and 
wanted to stop them in the future. He told us at that time, "Go in 
there and feel your way and don't go tearing up that police depart- 
ment. Go in there and feel your way and find out what the situation 
actually is." 

As far as Chief Johnson is concerned, the chief has not had gen- 
eral police experience. He is a traffic man and he is a good traffic 
man. But as far as having training in all the different departments 
in the police department, he hasn't. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you point that out to the board of police com- 
missioners ? 

Mr. Milligan. I may have. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you in fact suggest that another man be 
named in his place as chief of police ? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

The Chairman. What was that fellow's name ? 

Mr. Mn^LiGAN. Braun? 

Mr. Halley. Braun. 

Mr. Milligan. That was in the papers. 

Mr. Halley. What about Braun ? 

Mr. Milligan. All right. Mr. Braun came to my office. He had 
been in the police department, he had been a captain. 

Mr. Halley. That is John Braun ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't know his first name. I had never seen the 
man or heard of him before. 

Mr. Halley. He came to you ? 

Mr. Milligan. He came to my office. He had recommendations and 
he had letters of commendation with him. 

Mr. Halley. From whom were these letters ? 

Mr. Milligan. One was from Edward Shook, a prior chairman 
of the police board, and I don't remember who the others were. 
Maybe it was from the chief of police, somebody like that. I don't 
remember now. 

Mr. Halley. What did Braun say to you? What did he want? 

Mr. Milligan. He wanted to be chief of police. 

Mr. Halley. Did you propose his name to the board ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, I did not. 



240 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Did you mention the fact to the board ? 

Mr. MiixiGAN. Oh, I think I mentioned it to Cohn one time, 

Mr. Halley. Where did you mention it to him, at a board meet- 
ing or privately ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I may have mentioned it privately. I don't think 
it was at a board meeting. 

Mr. Halley. Where was it that you mentioned Braun to Cohn ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. It may have been in my office. It may have been 
in Cohn's office, I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever mention it to any of the other com- 
missioners ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't think so, because tlie man wasn't qualified 
under the law to be chief of police. 

Mr. Halley. Who was not qualified? 

Mr. IVIiLLiGAN. Braun. 

Mr. Halley. Why did you mention it at all to Cohn ? 

Mr. Milligan. That was before I investigated him. 

Mr. Halley. What did you say to Cohn? Did you say anything 
that might lead him to believe you wanted to supplant the present 
chief with Mr. Braun ? 

Mr. Milligan. Cohn and I discussed Braun twice, one — and I don't 
know, it might have been in my office, it might have been in his. I 
told Cohn that Braun had been in my office, that he was a very person- 
able-looking fellow, to check him up himself, and I was going to have 
him investigated and see about him because I had never heard of him. 
Then Cohn made an investigation, and I made an investigation, and 
he was not qualified under the law. 

Mr. Halley. Then you had a second discussion with Cohn about 
Braun ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat was the second discussion? 

Mr. Milligan. Cohn and Binaggio and myself — I think Binaggio 
called me up and said that he and Cohn wanted to see me. I asked 
him to come over to my office. And he said Cohn didn't want to do 
that, and I said "I will come over to his office." He said, "No," he 
wanted to meet in some office across the street. I don't remember the 
name of it. I went over there and went in this office. Cohn was 
there. Binaggio was there. WTio brought up Braun's name I don't 
know. When they mentioned it, I said "I have investigated the man 
and he is not qualified under the law because you have to have 5 years 
of executive police duty, filling an executive capacity." 

Mr. Halley. Who brought Braun up at that meeting, Cohn or 
Binaggio ? 

Mr. Milligan. He wasn't at the meeting. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Who was at the meeting? You were there. 

Mr. Milligan. I was there. 

Mr. Halley. Cohn was there. 

Mv. Milligan. Cohn was there, Binaggio was there. That is all. 

Mr. Halley. Was this at the Midland Lithographing Co. ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't know. 

ISfr. Halley. Do you know anybody named Rosenberg? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You do ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 241 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes. Wliat is his first name ? 
Mr. Halley. Wliat Rosenberg do you know ? 
Mr. MiLLiGAN. Mike Rosenberg. 
Mr. Hallet. Mike Rosenberg. 
Mr. MiLLiGAN. I know a Mike Rosenberg. 
Mr. Halley. AVliat business is he in ? 
Mr. MiLLTGAN, He works for some sacking company. 
Mr. Halley. Was this in his office? 

Mr. MiLLiGAX. There is a lithographing man, Rosenberg. 
Mr. Halley. That is Herman Rosenberg? 
Mr. MiLLiGAx. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Did you meet in Herman Rosenberg's office? 
]Mr. MiLLiGAN. I think it was. 
Mr. Halley, At this lithographing company? 
Mr. ]\IiLLiGAN. It wasn't a lithographing company. 
Mr. Halley. But it was Herman Rosenberg's office, is that right? 
Mr, MiLLiGAN, Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Halley. Was anybody there besides yourself and Binaggio and 
Cohn? 

Mr, MiLLiGAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Would you very carefully, giving yourself all the time 
you need 

Mr, MiLLiGAN, Can I smoke in here, Senator ? 

The Chairman. Mr. Milligan, I would like to smoke myself, but 
they said no smoking. I am chewing a cigar, 

Mr. Halley. Could you very carefully, giving yourself all the time 
you want, give the committee that conversation that you had with 
Binaggio and Cohn in full? 

Mr. Milligan. Binaggio called me up and said that Mr, Cohn and 
he would like to see me. I told him to come to my office. He said, 
"Well, Cohn doesn't want to do that." 

I said "I will come to his office." 

He said, "No ; I want to meet you at — " whatever this office was. I 
am not definite about that. So I went over there, Mr, Cohn and Bin- 
aggio were there. One of them — who it was I don't know — brought up 
Braun's name. The chief of police and I told them that under the 
law Braun was not qualified and it must have been Binaggio who 
brought his name up because I said to Cohn, "Bob, you have looked up 
the law and you know under the law^ this fellow is not qualified." 

That is practically the conversation. 

Mr. Halley. Was there anything else? 

Mr, Milligan. That is practically it as I remember it, 

Mr, Halley. Nothing else said whatsoever ? 

Mr, Milligan. Not that I remember of. Oh, I believe there was 
some other suggestion about the chief of police. 

Mr, Halley. Who made the other suggestion ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't remember now, 

Mr. Halley. Binaggio? 

Mr, Milligan. I think Cohn made it. 

Mr. Halley. Who did Cohn suggest? 

Mr, Milligan. I think he suggested Captain Parker, and I made 
no comment because I didn't know anything about Parker, and I 
wasn't there over a couple of minutes. 



242 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMIVIERCE 

Mr. Halley. What is Parker's full name ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. William Parker. 

Mr. Halley. Is he now on the police force ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. There must have been some preface before Binaggio 
raised the question of changing the police chief. 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. There might have been, there may have been some 
very short conversation because I wasn't there over 2 or 3 minutes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you sit down and take your coat off ? 

Mr. ISIiLLiGAisr. No. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have a seat ? 

Mr. Milligan. I imagine I did. I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. Was this in an office ? 

Mr. Milligan. This w.as in an office. 

Mr. Halley. Upstairs? 

Mr. Milligan. Upstairs. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat were the premises like, do you recall? 

Mr. Milligan. It was an office. 

Mr. Halley. An office building ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You went into a private office ? 

]\Ir. Milligan. That ie right. 

Mr. Halley. Were Cohn and Binaggio there when you arrived? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley, And they had been talking ? 

Mr. Milligan. I presume they had. 

Mr. Halley. After you had said hello — I presume you said hello ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio opened the subject of the appointment of Braun ? 

Mr. Milligan. As I have said, I think it was Binaggio because I 
remember distinctly stating that the fellow was not qualified under 
the law and attempting to confirm it by Cohn, saying, "Bob, you know 
under the law he isn't qualified." 

Mr. Halley. Is that the first suggestion Binaggio ever made to you 
as to a change or anything to be done in the police force ? 

Mr. Milligan. As well as I remember, yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did he ever make any other suggestions at any other 
time? 

Mr. Milligan. Oh, yes ; yes, sir. He talked to Chambers and me 
about changing the chief detective, Collins. I told him that I would 
not agree to put Collins out as chief of detectives. 

Mr. Halley. Wliere did this conversation take x)lace ? 

Mr. Milligan. That was at the Phillips Hotel at a party given for 
Sheridan Farrell shortly after he was appointed commissioner. 

Mr. Halley. Did Binaggio pick you out or were you there together? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't remember. There were 100 or 200 people 
there. 

Mr. Halley. You and Chambers and Binaggio got into a corner? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Was anyobdy else there? 

Mr. Milligan. You mean in that conversation? 

Mr. Halley. In tliis conversation. 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat did Binaggio say? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 243 

Mr. MiLLiGAX. He was talking about changing the chief of detec- 
tives, Frank Collins. 

Mr. Halley. You say he was talking to Chambers? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I mean he addressed the remark to Chambers about, 
changing the chief of detectives. 

Mr. Halley. You mean the remark was mainly addressed to 
Chambers ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Was that because he felt you were with him ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. That I was 

Mr. Halley. Had you discussed this matter with him before? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir ; I had not. 

Mr. Halley. AYhat did he say about changing the chief of detectives, 
Collins? 

Mr. Milligan. He said he thought the chief of detectives was very 
inefficient, that when some crime was committed, he started to hollering 
"dago" when there wasn't any dago at all. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't he really say the chief of detectives wasn't his 
friend and wasn't friendly to his own friends? 

Mr. Milligan. No, I wouldn't say that. That doesn't impress me. 
It has been some time. 

Mr. Haixey. How do you interpret what you have just said? 

Mr. Milligan. I would interpret he wanted to get the chief of 
detectives out. 

Mr. Halley. And wanted to put his own man in ? 

Mr. Milligan. There was no suggestion of anyone to go in. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear of a Captain Kircher? 

Mr. Halley. Kircher? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Who was he? 

Mr. Milligan. He was captain on the police force. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever talk to Binaggio about Kircher? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear that Binaggio wanted to get him 
out ? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. At no time ? 

Mr. Milligan. At no time. 

Mr. Halley. Did anybody ever talk to you about Kircher? 

Mr. Milligan. If they did I don't remember it, I don't remember 
any. A lot of people talked to me about police officers. Everybody 
had a pet police officer that they wanted to get fired. Wlien you 
pinned them down, some fellow had given them a ticket or arrested 
them some time. 

Mr. Halley. How often did you see Binaggio after you became a 
member of the police board? 

Mr. Milligan. Not very often. 

Mr. Halley. Once a week? 

Mr. Milligan. No. 

Mr. Halley. Are you sure you didn't see him that often? 

Mr. Milligan. I am sure I didn't. 

Mr. Halley. Once every 2 weeks? 

Mr. Milligan. No; I wouldn't say. 



244 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. You weren't on the police board verj^ long? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. How many months were you on the board? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. I was on about 11 months, I guess. 

Mr. Halley. Did you see Binaggio at least 11 times in that period? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. I may have. I may not. I wouldn't Iniow. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been at his clubhouse? His political 
club? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. Once. 

Mr. Halley. How long ago? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. That was the night of the primary in 1948. The 
Star radio station was going to carry through the returns all night 
and at 12 o'clock they got sick and closed up. I went out to the 
Fifteenth Street First District Club where they were bringing the 
returns. The returns were coming in there. 

Mr. Halley. Is that the only time you were ever there? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. That is the only time I ever remember being in the 
First District Club. 

Mr. Halley. Would j^ou say you saw Binaggio at least once a month 
while you were on tlie police board ? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. I may have. 

Mr. Halley. What otlier places did you see him ? You have men- 
tioned the party, and you have mentioned this office of Herman Rosen- 
berg's. Where else do you think you might have seen him? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. I might have met him on the street, any place else. 
He could come to my office. He might have come to my office, which 
I think he did. 

Mr. Halley. How often did he come to your office ? 

Mr. IMiLLiGAN. Not very often. 

Mr. Halley. Did he want things when he came to your office? 

IVIr. MiLLiGAKT- He generally wanted some patronage. 

Mr. Halley. He wanted to get his people on the police force? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. No, the civilian jobs more. 

Mr. Halley. What was his position with reference to civilian jobs? 
Did he talk to you about that? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What did he say ? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. He told me that his people were not qualified to hold 
any job that would take any mental effort, that most of them had not 
much schooling, and they could be put in as car washers and scrub 
people and janitors and people like that. 

Mr. Halley. Did he mention patronage? 

Mr. JVIiLLiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did he mention that having won the election he was 
entitled to the patronage? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. He didn't to me. 

Mr. Halley. How would he mention patronage without pointing 
that out? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. He would bring it up that he would like to get some 
jobs for his people. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't he mention that he won the election at tremen- 
dous expense, and the least he was entitled to was some jobs? 

Mr. MiLLIGAN. I don't remember a statement like that. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COIVIMERCE 245 

Mr. Halley. How would a practical politician talk about patronage 
to you ? What would he say ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. He would say, you have got some jobs down there 
that are not under the merit system, scrub people, car washers, who 
maybe work a week — this is my statement — work a week and then 
maybe quit that job and go get something else. 

Mr, Hx\LLEY. What did Binaggio say? 

Mr, MiKLiGAX. That he would like to have some of these jobs, I 
told him if his people were qualified, to send them down to the per- 
sonnel officer and if they were qualified, as far as I was concerned, I 
would appoint them, 

Mr. Halley, Didn't he in fact want the civil service civilian em- 
ployees taken off civil service and turned into patronage jobs? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No ; he never mentioned it to me. 

Mr. Halley. He never talked to you about that? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir. How are you going to do it ? You couldn't 
do it without you changed the State law. 

Mr, Halley. Now let's get back to the conversation you had with 
Binaggio and Colin at Rosenberg's office. Did Binaggio indicate to 
you that you had kept certain facts from Cohn? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Certain facts? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. MiLLiGAX. Not that I remember. 

Mr. Halley. Have you had certain conversations with Cohn about 
the management of the police department? 

Mr. JNIiLLiGAN. I imagine I have. I don't remember any particular 
one. 

Mr. Halley. You probably did ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAK. I naturally would. 

Mr. Halley. Hadn't you indicated to him it was necessary for him 
to go along with you ? 

Mr. MiLLTGAN. I had not. Cohn was a commissioner the same as I. 
That was his job just like mine. He was the man to handle that. 

Mr. Halley, He was the man to handle what ? 

Mr. Mtlligan. His own job and do what he thought was right, 
and it was mine to do what I thought was right. 

Mr. Halley. Now we are on generalities. What I want is the 
actual conversations. Had you ever gone to Cohn and told him that 
he had to go along with you ? 

Mr, INIiLLiGAN", I never told him that, 

Mr. Halley. And with Farrell on certain appointments? 

Mr. INIiLLiGAisr. I never told Cohn anj^thing of the kind. 

Mr. Halley. You never mentioned to him that certain appoint- 
ments had to be made for Binaggio ? 

Mr. Milligax. No, sir; I did not. 

Mr. Hl^LLEY. Aud that it was necessary to change the chief of 
police ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. If I would want the chief of police changed, 
I could have gotten him changed very easily. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you try it at the commission meetings ? 

Mr. IMiLLiGAX. I did not. 

Mr. Halley. You did bring up this man Braun. 

INIr, Milijgax. That is right, and I had no doubt that there were 
half a dozen other applicants for chief of police. 



246 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. TIalley. Didn't you want the chief of police changed? 

Mr. MiLLTGAx. Xo. I didn't at that time because I couldn't find 
anybody who was any better then he was. 

Mr. Halley, Except that you did cause an investigation to be made 
of Braun. 

JNIr, Mtltjgan, That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You found later by coincidence at this meeting in 
Rosenberg's office that Binaggio was pushing Brann for the job? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know that before that time? 

Mr. JNIilligan. That is right. 

Tlie Chairman. You did know that before that time? 

Mr. Milligan. No ; he never mentioned — Binaggio never men- 
tioned Braun to me. 

The Chairman. Had he complained about the present chief of 
police and said "We have got to get somebody else" ? 

Mr. Milligan. He had complained about it. 

The Chairman. Wliat was his complaint? 

Mr. Milligan. His complaint was that he couldn't catch a thief or 
a criminal, and his build-up was that Johnson and the public got the 
idea that every crime that was committed was committed by the Italian 
people from the north end. 

The Chairman. Why did you feel, Mr. Milligan, that Binaggio 
wanted to get these changes made, so that things would be lighter on 
him and he could operate more openly ? Is that what you thought ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't know about that. Senator. 

The CHiMRMAN. You knew what your idea was. 

Mr. Milligan. Of course 

The Chairman. Did you feel Binaggio was trying to open up the 
city? 

Mr. Milligan. I felt that Binaggio would if he got an opportunity. 

The Chairman. And that is the reason he wanted these changes 
made? 

Mr. Milligan. I would imagine so. 

The Chairman. He was talking about the chief of detectives and 
the chief of police? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. Of course, the chief of detectives has 
nothing to do with it. That is generally a different department. 

I would imagine. Senator, that he would have been perfectly willing 
to take over the police department if he could. 

Mr. Halley. You were willing to walk out of your office and meet 
in a private office with him and another police commissioner ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. In a place that had no official designation as an office 
of the police department? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Haixet. And to discuss there with him the possibility of 
appointing some successor for the present police commissioner, John- 
son ; is that right ? 

Mr. Milligan. The chief of police ; yes. 

The Chairman. Why did they say they wouldn't come to your 
office? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 247 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. They said Colin didn't want to. I didn't think any- 
thing about it, Senator, because I wasn't trying to hide anything I was 
doing. 

The Chairman. He said that Cohn didn't want to ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. He didn't want to come over to my office, and I said, 
"Well, I will come to his." He said, "No, I want to meet you at some 
place else." I don't know who was there except Binaggio and Cohn. 
There could have been someone else there, too, but he only mentioned 
Cohn. 

The Chairman. Did you tell Binaggio that if any changes were 
going to be made, he would have to go get one of these other fellows 
to go along on it? , 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, sir; I didn't. 

The Chairman. Either Cohn or Chambers? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, I did not. I did not, Senator. 

The Chairman. Anything else, Mr. Halley? 

Mr. Halley. Yes, Was Cohn proposing Braun ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No, no. I don't think he was at all. 

Mr. Halley. Was he opposing him ? Had the thing become serious 
in any way? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. He may have been opposing him, because as I told 
you, Cohn — I think it was in my office — Cohn and I told him this fellow 
Braun had been up to my office to see me ; for him to investigate him, 
that I was having him investigated as well as some of these others, and 
see what he thought about him. 

Mr. Halley. Had Cohn raised any objection publicly to Braun? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. I don't understand why Binaggio would have you and 
Cohn at a secret or private place to discuss Braun if no controversy 
had arisen about Braun. The meeting makes no sense. 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Well, I don't know about that. 

Mr. Halley. Did you think 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I don't think that was the purpose of the meeting 
in the first place. I don't know what it was. 

Mr. Halley. Let's see if we can get at the purpose of the meeting. 
You and Cohn had not been getting along very well, had you? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Bob Cohn and I had been getting along. All this 
newspaper talk that the police board was fighting and — we agreed on 
practically everything. 

Mr. Halley. We are not referring to newspaper reports, Mr. Milli- 
gan. We are now referring to the testimony of Mr. Cohn, who just 
left the stand. 

Mr. Milligan. He may have felt that way toward me. 

Mr. Halley. Weren't you two in a series of disputes about the 
management of the police department? 

Mr. Milligan. No, I wouldn't say serious disputes. He may have 
had his ideas, I had my own. 

Mr. Halley. His ideas and your own conflicted, did they not? 

JVIr. Milligan. That is right, at times, yes. 

Mr. Halley. On many points? 

Mr. Milligan. I wouldn't say many. 

Mr. Halley. On what points did you have conflicts? 

Mr. Milligan. For instance we had a conflict — we would try some 
officer for something, and we would find him guilty and then Cohn 



248 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

wouldn't want to sentence him or discharge him. Of course, to me 
that was very foolish, and maybe I said too frankly that it was a fine 
situation to find a man guilty and then not want to discharge him. 

Mr. Halley. Can you give one specific instance in which that 
occurred ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I couldn't tell you the name. I think there were 
two detectives. 

Mr. Halley. What were their names ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. McKissick or McSissick, or some such name as that* 

Mr. Halley. What were they discharged for ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. They were not discharged. 

Mr. Halley. What was the charge against them ? 

Mr. ISIiLLiGAN. They were charged with beating a fellow up. 

]Mr. Halley. Who were they charged with beating up ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I have forgotten his name, some Italian who had 
a bad record himself, a very bad record, but I don't think that gave 
them a right, because was the worst looking man I ever saw from his 
pictures. 

Mr. Halley. Did anybody complain about this beating? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Oh, he filed charges before the board. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever talk about that case with Binaggio ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And Cohn did not want those men discharged? Is 
that right? 

Mr. Milligan. The mayor was there and the mayor voted with 
Farrell and me. 

Mr. Halley. And were the men discharged ? 

Mr. Milligan. No; they were not discharged. They were given 
fines and so much time off without pay. 

Mr. Halley. Were there any other disputes between you and Cohn ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. You disagreed on nothing else ? 

Mr. Milligan. We may have disagreed on a number of things. I 
don't remember any specific instance. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you want, for instance, to replace a number of 
personnel on the force over the protest of both Cohn and Chambers? 

Mr. Milligan. I couldn't. I couldn't replace them under the State 
law unless you filed charges against them and had a public hearing. 

Mr. Halley. You could replace the chief, couldn't you ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right, you could replace the chief. 

Mr. Halley. You could remove the heads of various departments 
from their responsible jobs and put them in less responsible jobs? 

Mr, Milligan. Yes, but if you reduced them 

Mr. Halley. For instance, you were discussing the question of re- 
moving the chief of detectives. 

Mr, Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Would you have to file charges ? 

Mr. Milligan. No, not to remove him, if he held his rank. 

Mr. Halley. Would you just transfer him, isn't that right, to an- 
other job? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't you seek to transfer several people? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes, sir ; I did. 



ORGANIZED CRIAIE! IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 249 

Mr. Halley. And clidn-t Cohn and Chambers object? 
Mr. MiLLiGAN. I don't know that I discussed it. 
Mr. Halley. Then it came right up at meetings of the board, 
didn't it ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. If it did, I don't remember them. 

Mr. Halley. Don't you remember arguing with Cohn and 
Chambers ? 

Mr. Milligan. If you will tell me who it is, I will tell you whether 
I did or didn't. 

Mr. Halley. Can't you recall that without being helped, whether 
or not you argued with Cohn and Chambers ? 

Mr. MiixiGAN. I may have argued with him about the head of the 
robbery squad and the head of the boosters, as they call them. 

Mr. Halley. You wanted those two men removed and transferred ? 

Mr. Milligan. I wanted them transferred out and put somebody 
else in charge of those departments. 

Mr. Halley. And they objected, is that it, Chambers and Cohn? 

Mr. Milligan. They may have. I don't remember. I know I talked 
to the chief of police about it. 

INIr. Halley. There were arguments about that, were there not, or 
at least discussions ? 

Mr. Milligan. I imagine there was. 

Mr. Halley. There was a difference of opinion as to whether the 
men should be changed ? 

Mr. Milligan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley, You were on one side and Cohn and Chambers were 
on the other ? 

Mr. Milligan. That may have been. 

Mr. Halley. Isn't it a fact that when you met Cohn and Binaggio at 
Rosenberg's, one of the purposes of the meeting was to reconcile the 
differences ? 

Mr. Milligan. I have explained to you as far as I can remember 
the discussion that occurred on that occasion. 

Mr. Halley. I am trying to refresh your recollection. 

Mr. Milligan. I wish you would. 

Mr. Halley. Isn't it a fact that on that occasion Binaggio sug- 
gested that it should be possible for you and Cohn to get along ? 

Mr. Milligan. He may have done that. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't he do it? 

Mr. Milligan. Well, if he did — he may have, I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. What is your recollection ? Wasn't there a discussion 
about you and Cohn getting together and agreeing on things ? 

Mr. Milligan. There may have been. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't there ? 

Mr. Milligan. I can't say positively because I don't remember. 

Mr, Halley. ^Vliat is your best recollection? 

Mr. Milligan. All right, if it will satisfy you, I will say "Yes." 

Mr. Halley. Isn't it "Yes," not just to satisfy me? 

Mr. Milligan. I can't remember it. 

The Chairman. If you can't remember it, you can't remember it. 

Mr. Milligan. I can't. I want to be helpful to the committee. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't Binaggio say to you that we have to get along 
with Cohn? 

Mr. Milligan. To me? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 



250 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. He may have ; I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. You wouldn't deny that he said it? 

Mr. MiLUGAN. I don't remember it if he made such a statement. 

Mr. Halley. You wouldn't deny it ? 

Mr. INIiLLiGAN. No ; because he might have said it. 

Mr. Halley. There was a little more discussion, then, than just 
the very brief discussion about the appointment of Braun, wasn't 
there ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. As I mentioned, about Parker. Cohn brought up 
Parker's name. I don't remember anyone else's. That was practically 
all of the conversation, because I wasn't there over 2 minutes. 

Mr. Halley. After the discussion of the specific names, didn't the 
general question of you and Cohn getting along come up ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. It may have, but if it did, I don't remember it. Be- 
cause I have known Bob Cohn. He is a good fellow. There is no 
difference between him and me. 

Mr. Halley. You have just testified that you were having differences 
on the police board. 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I don't think that is a personal difference. 

Mr. Halley. We weren't talking about personal differences. "When 
you met in Rosenberg's office with Binaggio and Cohn, you were 
talking about police matters, were you not? 

Mr.'MiLLiGAN. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. And on police matters you had been having differences 
with Cohn, had you not ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. Well, if you want to call them differences ; yes. We 
had not agreed on everything. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't Binaggio trying to get you and Cohn to agree? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. That may have been his purpose. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't he say that he wanted you and Cohn to agree? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. If he did I don't remember it. I don't remember it. 

Mr. Halley. Nothing else. 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. And I am not trying to keep any information that 
I might liave from this committee. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Milligan, did Binaggio call you on the 
telephone frequently ? 

Mr. Milligan. Once in a while. 

The Chairman. Once a day? 

Mr. Milligan. No, no. 

The Chairman. What would he call you on the telephone about? 

Mr. Milligan. To talk to me about somebody who wanted a job, 
something like that. 

The Chairman. Did you give his people jobs? 

Mr. Milligan. He might call me on something about making a 
recommendation for a State appointment. 

Tlie Chairman. When he was calling you about somebody wanting 
a job in the police department, did you give his people jobs? 

Mr. INIiLLiGAN. Here is what we did, Senator. We would send it 
down to the personnel officer. He would check the party, his record 
as to his violating the law and other qualifications. Then the person- 
nel officer would make a report to the board. Maybe he would have 
a list of them. If he needed a janitor he might have three or four 
people. 



ORGANIZED CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 251 

The Ctiairmax. "Would yon ask that it be given favorable consid- 
eration on account of Mr, Binaggio, that is, would you ask the per- 
sonnel director to give it favorable consideration ? 

Mr. INIiLLiGAN. No, sir. He made his independent report. 

The Chairman. Some of them may have gotten in and some of 
them did not, is that the situation ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. They may have, yes; but not many because there 
weren't many vacancies. 

The Chairman. "Wlien this man Higgins was put in, it has been 
charged in the press generally and by others that that was the general 
signal for a show of strength of Binaggio, that that was an indication 
that he had gotten his finger into the police board, and that he was a 
man of influence, and thereafter a great many of the members of the 
police department felt that Binaggio was a strong man and had a lot 
of influence with the police department and they felt a certain amount 
of responsibility toward him. Were you aware of any sentiment 
like that? 

]\Ir. MiLLiGAN. I think that is true. I think that is true. 

The Chairman. When did you become aware of that ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. After Higgins went on the board. 

The Chairman. How long did Higgins stay on the board ? 

Mr. IMiLLiGAN. He stayed until the day I resigned. 

The Chairman. He was on there for 10 or 11 months, then ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. I would say he was appointed maybe a month or so 
after I went on the board. 

The Chairman. Did that feeling become apparent immediately 
after Higgins had been appointed ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. No. 

The Chairman. That Binaggio had gotten in with the police de- 
partment through Higgins ? 

]Mr. ]\IiLLiGAN. I think maybe that is true because of the newspaper 
build-up to that effect and maybe on the street. 

The Chairman. That is what the newspapers said about it. 

Mr. ]\IiLLiGAN. That is right. 

The Chairman. That was a rather unhealthy condition, was it not ? 

Mr. IVIiLLiGAN. That is right. 

The Chairman. Did you know that Higgins was a friend of 
Binaggio's ? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. He was not, as I understand it; that is the informa- 
tion I liad on it. I talked to two people about appointing Higgins. 
I talked to the head of the FBI, Dwight Brantley. I talked to my 
brother, who was district attorney, about Higgins. Those were the 
only two men that I talked to about appointing Higgins. I didn't 
talk to Binaggio or anybody else. 

The Chairman. Anyway, that was signaled to be a turning point 
in Binaggio's influence or alleged influence with the police department. 

Mr. ]MiLLiGAN. I don't see — it may have been by rumor, but Higgins 
was an adviser to the board. He made recommendations to the 
board. 

The Chairman. After that time, after the time he was appointed, 
wasn't there a general feeling among some of the members of the 
police force that Binaggio had gotten his finger in and therefore they 
had more respect for Binaggio ? 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 17 



252 ORGANIZED CREVIE IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. That might have been true. 

The Chairman. Do you not think that was true? 

Mr. MiLLiGAN. It could have been. 

The Chairman. Do you know whether it was true or not ? 

Mr. Milligan. I don't. I don't know what a man thinks, Senator. 

The Chairjvian. I know, but you know the general impression 
around town as to what the result of that appointment was. 

Mr. Milligan. Oh, yes. The newspapers were carrying it that 
Binaggio appointed him. 

The Chairman. In that situation, why did you not let him go 
when that was brought out? 

Mr. Milligan I don't run out vei-y often, Senator. I think Hig- 
gins was a good iixan, and I think he did some valuable work. If I 
was placed in the same position, I would reappoint him. 

The Chairman. All right, that is all. 

Mr. Milligan. That is my feeling. My judgment may be wrong. 
I think he is one of the best detectives in the United States. He had 
no political connections of any kind except that he was a Democrat. 

The Chairman. And he wasn't recommended to you by Binaggio 
at all? 

Mr. Milligan. He was not, Senator. I talked to two men about 
Higgins, and I told you who they were, Dwight Brantley and my 
brother. 

The Chairman. Who first recommended Higgins to you ? 

Mr. ]\IiLLiGAN. No one. I thought of him myself, because I knew 
Tom Higgins' reputation as being a detective, and we had 22 murder 
cases that were unsolved. 

The Chairman. You had known him a long time ? 

Mr. Milligan. Yes. 

The Chairman. All right, that is all. 

Anything else, Mr. Halley? 

Mr. Halley. I have nothing more. 

Tlie Chairman. That is all, Mr. Milligan. Thank you. 

Mr. Milligan. Am I relieved of the subpena ? 

The Chairman. You are relieved unless we call you further. If 
we need you any more we will call you on the telephone. You are re- 
lieved unless we get in touch with you. 

(Witness excused.) 

The Chairman. Call Mr. Klein. 

Mr. Klein, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this 
committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You may be seated, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF MORRIS (SNAG) KLEIN, ACCOMPANIED BY 
LOUIS WAGNER, ATTORNEY, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

INIr. White. What is your full name? 
Mr. Klein. Morris Klein. 
Mr. White. Also known as Snag? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; that is a nickname I got when I was playing' 
basketball in high school. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 253 

Mr. White. At the moment you are a prisoner in the Federal 
penitentiary ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Mr. Klein, were you acquainted with Charles 
Binaggio? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Were you a business partner of his in any enterprise ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. In what enterprises were you in partnership with him ? 

Mr. Klein. I was in partners with him in the gambling business, 
the Missouri Electric & Construction Co., the Ace Sales, Inc. 

Mr. White. What were the gambling enterprises in which you were 
in partnership with him ? 

Mr. Klein. At Green Hills. 

Mr. White. Any others ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Were you a partner of his in the News Service? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. You were in the News Service, however ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. But Binaggio was not ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you have any other gambling enterprises in com- 
mon with Binaggio at all ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Did 3^ou have any gambling enterprises in Omaha, 
Nebr. ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What was the name of that place ? 

Mr. Klein. May I ask a question, please, sir ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. Is any of this incriminating ? Is any of this going to 
be given to other sources or am I just answering this to this committee ? 

Mr. White. This is an executive session of the committee. As to 
whether or not this information will be made public is up to the com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Halley. We should tell you this, Mr. Klein. You have a right 
to refuse to answer questions which would tend to incriminate you 
under some Federal statute or law. 

Mr. Klein. By that I mean we testify to the grand jury and some 
of the information as I later learned was turned over to the State 
and that is incriminating. So therefore that is the reason I am asking 
these questions. Will this be incriminating to me now or later? 

Mr. Halley. If they are, you have no privilege against self-in- 
crimination under State law. The privilege is confined to crimes which 
involve Federal law when you are testifying before this committee. 

The Chairman. This committee is not trying you for anything. 
We are trying to find out what the facts are relative to the resolution 
that we have. 

Mr. Klein. I see. 

The Chairman. This session is of course an executive session. As 
to what findings we make on our report — is this your attorney ? 

Mr. Wagner. My name is Louis Wagner, 1212 Dierks Building, 
Kansas City. 



254 ORGANIZED CRIME EN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. Mr. Wagner, you heard Mr. Klein ask what use 
would be made of this testimony. I told him that this was a Senate 
hearing-, not a trial for anything. We are not charging Mr. Klein 
with any offense. We have of course no jurisdiction to try or to sen- 
tence anybody. We also advised him that the rule of incrimination 
in a United States Senate hearing only applied as to any Federal 
offense, that he has no privilege not to testify here on the fear that 
what he says might be used against him in any State matter. 

Mr. Wagner. I think what is mostly concerned with is whether or 
not the evidence adduced here will be put in the hands of some law- 
enforcement agency for prosecution by them. Or is the evidence to 
be kept secret within the committee ? 

The Chairman. This is an executive session of the committee. 

Mr. Wagner. The testimony that Mr. Klein will give today will 
not be placed in the hands of any law-enforcement agency ? 

The Chairman. The testimony that he is giving today is being 
given in executive session. It will be on this testimony that later on we 
will give our report. It is also possible that later on we may have a 
public hearing when of course Mr. Klein may be called on to testify 
about matters in public. 

Mr. Hallet. The committee would have to vote. I should think 
you would have to have a full committee to make a definite commit- 
ment of any kind as to the use of the testimony. However, you are 
testifying now before the chairman of the committee. He has ex- 
pressed that it is his feeling and disposition that he would want to see 
this evidence given fully and freely. I think we can go as far as to 
say that his recommendation to the committee would depend in great 
part upon the nature of your testimony and the willingness with 
which you testify about the matters involved here. 

The Chairman. I can say that we are not here for the purpose of 
getting testimony to turn over to anybody else. That is not our 
purpose. 

Mr. Wagner. I understand. My purpose was this : I was employed 
at a late date. I never had an opportunity to check the authority of 
this committee or what disposition it can make of any evidence that 
is presented to them. I understand now that the witness here cannot 
invoke his constitutional privilege. 

Mr. Halley. Of course he can. 

Mr. Wagner. He can do that ? 

Mr. Halley. But his privilege before any Senate committee only 
goes to matters pertaining to Fed.eral violations not to State violations. 

Mr. Wagner. I see. 

The Chairman. For instance, if we should ask him about a viola- 
tion of the Mann Act, or something of that sort, and he thought he 
had some facts that if he gave them to us might result in his indict- 
ment or a prosecution for violation — a Federal violation — of the 
Mann Act, then he would have a right to invoke the privilege. 

Ml-. Wagner. I take it the committee has no authority to interrogate 
the witness insofar as any State offense is concerned. 

IVIr. Halley. They have full authority to interrogate the witness. 

Mv. Wagner. I thought 

The Chairman. That is part of our responsibility, to find out if 
the vehicle of interstate commerce is being used for the purpose of 
violating State law. 



ORGANIZED CRIME' IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 255 

Mr. Wagner. I mean strictly intrastate crime. I thought when 
you read this memorandum this morning you only dealt with crime 
in interstate commerce. 

The Chairman. That is our jurisdiction, that is correct. I think 
we will get along all right, Mr. Wagner. 

Mr. Halley. Go ahead. 

Mr. WiirrE. What was the operation in Omaha, Nebr., or Council 
Bluffs, or both, that j^ou were connected with, and who were the 
partners in that operation? 

Mr. Wagner. I might ask you at this time, which I overlooked. In 
the event we intend to invoke the constitutional privilege, do I take the 
lead ? Do I advise my client in open court ? 

ISIr. Hallet. You may advise him not to answer, but he will have 
to state under oath that the answer he gives would tend to incriminate 
him. Unless he says it would tend to incriminate him, under Federal 
law, the committee will not recognize the privilege. 

Mr. Wagner. At this time I advise my client to refuse to answer 
because it might tend to incriminate him. 

Mr. Halley. The "might'' will not be sufficient. 

Mr. Wagner. Might tend to. 

Mr. Halley. You will have to say it would tend to incriminate 
him. 

Mr. Wagner. Would tend to incriminate him. 

Mr. Halley. Do you so state ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. I would say it would tend to incriminate me. 

The Chairman. Of a Federal offense ? 

Mr. Klein.' No, sir. 

The Chairman. Then you have no privilege. 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. Will you please repeat the question ? 

Mr. White. What was the gambling operation in Omaha that you 
were connected with ? 

Mr. Klein. The Stork Club. That was at Council Bluffs, sir. 

Mr. White. Across the river in Council Bluffs ? 

Mr. KiEiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Who were the partners in that club ? 

Mr. Klein. Mr. Hutter, Charles Hutter, George Beskas — ^Would 
you want me to say Osadchey or Spitz ? 

Mr. White. Either way. 

Mr. Klein. Spitz, Mr. Eddie Spitz. There is Fred Weyerman, 
Fred Barnes. There is a fellow named Einer. I don't know whether 
that was his first name — Einer Abramson, and Max Abramson. 

]\Ir. White. Mr. Klein, what was the period when you and Eddie 
Spitz joined the gambling establishment? When did you and Eddie 
Sj^itz become partners in this gambling operation ? 

Mr. Klein. This is vague. I think it was the fall of 1947. 

Mr. White. Had this gambling place been in operation before that 
time? 

Mr. Klein. To my knowledge I would say "Yes." 

Mr. White. So far as- you know, was it operated by the remainder 
of the partners that you have just named ? 

Mr. Klein. I couldn't answer that fairly. 

Mr. White. Wlio was operating the place when you joined it, when 
you and Eddie Spitz joined it ? 



256 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. There was a fellow named Berman, I think, was operat- 
ing the place at that time. 

Mr. White. On what basis did you become a partner in this club ? 

Mr. Klein. We bought half interest for $20,000. 

Mr. White. Who furnished the money for that? 

Mr. Klein. We sold half interest at that particular time or that 
afternoon or that following day to the other four mentioned fellows 
for $20,000, and they put the money up. 

Mr. White. For how much, $20,000 ? 

Mr, Ea.EiN. $20,000. _ 

Mr. White. So it didn't cost you anything? How were you able 
to arrange this promotion at no cost to yourself ? 

Mr. Klein. Mr. Hutter made the arrangements. 

Mr. White. Wliat was Hutter "s position in the partnership ? 

Mr. Klein. How do you mean that, sir ? 

Mr. White. You say he made the arrangements. Was he one of the 
original owners of the Stork Club ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. I think Hutter had the wire service, and I 
think that Mr. Berman, who was operating the club at that time, was 
operating at a loss. He wanted to get out 'from under the place. I 
don't know just exactly what the transactions were at the time, but 
Mr. Hutter came down and talked to Mr. Spitz and they explained the 
deal, and that is how we happened to go into the place. He made the 
deal with one of the four, that is Weyerman, Barnes, or one of the 
Abramson brothers. I don't know which one he negotiated the deal 
with. 

Mr. White. What wire service was this, by the way, that the Stork 
Club used? 

Mr. Klein. Mr. Goldschein, what were the names of those two wire 
services, do you remember ? 

Mr. Goldschein. In Council Bluffs ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. In Omaha they had two wire services. They 
had two. If you mentioned the names I could tell you the one of 
them. 

The Chairman. Harmony? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, they were taking service from the Harmony at 
one time. 

The Chairman. Did you get wire service from Kansas City and 
Omaha, Nebr. ? 

Mr. Klein. I didn't understand the question. 

The Chairman. Wliere did you get your wire service from in the 
Council Bluffs place? 

Mr. Klein. At first I imagine it came through Kansas City, through 
a wire that went around several States or cities. 

Mr. White. Was that the same wire that belonged to the Harmony 
News Service and was operated by Simon Partnoy and with which 
you later became connected ? 

Mr. Klein. At one time that service was given to that section, and 
then it was discontinued and they got the service from someone else. 

Mr. White. At the time you were connected M'ith the Stork Club, 
were you also connected with the Partnoy operation ? 

Mr. Klein. With the Harmon}', the Universal Distributing Co.; 
yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 257 

Mr. White. In Kansas City ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Did the circuit that you had anything to do with, the 
wire service here, have any bearing of an acquisition of an interest 
in the Stork Club? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. That was just a coincidence that you and your asso- 
ciates who controlled the wire service here decided or were offered 
an opportunity to buy into the Stork Club in Council Bluffs? 

Mr. Klein. I wouldn't say it was a coincidence. The partners who 
were in the wire service were partners in the Council Bluffs place. 
It happened, as I said, the fellow who was operating the place didn't 
know anything about operating the place and he was operating, I 
understand, at quite a loss. 

Mr. White. Where did you understand that from ? 

Mr. Ejlein. Just words, after you get up there and you hear people 
saying he couldn't make any money, and the place was losing money. 

Mr. White. It has been alleged, Mr. Klein, that the entrance of 
yourself and Eddie Spitz into the Stork Club operation was one which 
was made more or less by force, that you entered there against the 
will of the former owners. Is there any basis for that ? 

Mr. Klein. To my knowledge I would say that is false. 

Mr. White. Who actually made the negotiations for the purchase 
of this partnership which you say cost you and Spitz nothing ? 

Mr. Klein. Let me understand that now. Do you mean who they 
negotiated the deal originally with or who did — Mr. Hutter nego- 
tiated with one of Barnes or Weyerman or one of those fellows. Then 
he came down and talked to Spitz, I think. 

Mr. White. Why did Mr. Hutter need either you or Spitz? 

Mr. Klein. He didn't know anything about running the place. 
I guess he did it because he knew Spitz. I don't know how or where 
or when. 

Mr. White. After you acquired this interest, did you take over 
active management and control of the place? 

Mr. Klein. I did for a while ; yes. I went up there with this George 
Beskas, and I stayed there for a couple of weeks until it got started, 
and then I left. I went up there, I won't say at weekly intervals or 
2-week intervals, but I did go up there on numerous occasions. 

Mr. White. How much time did Eddie Spitz spend in the operation 
of the place ? 

Mr. Klein. Very, very little. 

Mr. White. What income did you derive from the partnership? 
How much money did you make out of it ? 

Mr. Klein. Truthfully, I don't remember, sir. I would have to look 
it up. 

Mr. White. Wliat is your best guess as to how much you made ? 

Mr. Klein. For the full period ? 

Mr. White. Yes. How much money did you make out of the Stork 
Club altogether? 

Mr. Klein. This would be strictly- a guess. I would say around 
$20,000 to $25,000. 

Mr. White. Did Eddie Spitz make approximately the same ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

The Chairman. That is over a period of how long ? 



258 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. Over the entire period, 1947 until the present time. 

The Chairman. Is it still running 'I 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. When did it close ? 

Mr. Klein. It closed in the fall of last year. 

The Chairman. Was that after the sheriff got subpenaed down 
here before the grand jury, the sheriff of that county over there? 

Mr. Klein. I don't know the sheriff of that county. I know it was 
closed — I would say in the late summer or early fall of last year. 

]\Ir. White. That was about a 2 years' run then so far as you were 
concerned. 

Mr. Klein. I would say closer to a 3-year run, about 21/^ years ; yes. 

Mr. White. So between you and Eddie Spitz you believe you took 
out somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000 ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White, What percentage of the operation did that represent? 

Mr. Klein. I think I had lOi/^ percent, and I think Mr. Spitz had 
IQiA percent. 

Mr. White. That would be 21 percent. 

Mr. KlEin, Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Between you. During that period were you also a 
partner in the Last Chance gambling establishment? 

Mr. Klein. That is when, sir, 1947? 

Mr. White. During the same period you were engaged in the Coun- 
cil Bluffs enterprise. 

Mr. Klein. That is a question that I would attempt to answer this 
way : I had been in the Last Chance on several occasions. They have 
been open and they have been closed. I have been in the Last Chance 
at times that they have been open, and I haven't been in at times that 
they have been open. 

Mr. White. When you say you have been in, you mean in as part- 
ners ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; I am sorry. I think that I was in partners in 
1947. They have been open and closed on numerous occasions and as 
I have said they have been open many times that I haven't been in as 
a partner. 

Mr. White. During the time that you were in as a partner, what 
percentage of the partnership did you have? 

]\Ir. Klein. That varied, sir. That varied from a fourth of 37i/^, 
I think, around 9 percent up to about l7i/2, 18 percent, something like 
that. 

Mr. White. What determined this fluctuating percentage held by 
yourself ? 

Mr. Klein. The amount of partners that would be there and some- 
times wouldn't be there. 

Mr. White. Who determined how many partners would be there 
or absent ? 

Mr. Klein. Just the partners themselves. Sometimes they wouldn't • 
want to be in partners. Other times they would want to be in part- 
ners. 

Mr. White. What was your average income from the operation of 
this place during the time that you were a partner ? 

Mr. Klein. Sir, I think you have got me there. That varied on 
numerous occasions. It would be very hard for me to judge that. 



ORGANIZED CRIME: IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 259 

Mr. White. What would you say was the total income that you 
received from your entire participation ? 

Mr. Klein. This is strictly a guess. I would say around $10,000 or 
so. 

Mr. White. When you say "or so" does that mean 10 or 20. 

Mr. Klein. It could be 10 or 12. It may be 8. It could be 15. I 
don't exactly remember, 

Mr. White. How much of an investment did you have in this place? 

Mr. Klein. We just put up the bank roll. 

Mr. White. In other words, your percentage of income was con- 
trolled by the percentage of the bank roll that you put up ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes ; I guess that is the way. 

Mr. White. If you put up 5 percent of the bank roll you would be 
entitled to 5 percent of the income? 

Mr. Klein. Of the income ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. The total bank roll was $10,000 ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Who decided whether or not you could become a 
partner ? 

Mr. Klein. No one. 

Mr. White. Could I or any one else have gone up to the place and 
said, "I have a thousand dollars, and I would like to be a 10 percent 
partner here." 

Mr. Klein. Well, I don't think it was worked that way. I think 
the fellows wlio were in the gambling business just got it between 
themselves. They would open a place or would not open a place. 

Mr. White. That is the point. Who were these people in the 
gambling business who would decide to open or not to open with 
respect to this particular Last Chance gambling place? 

Mr. Klein. The place was owned by John Goulding. I think it is 
G-o-u-l-d-i-n-g. Whether he had any partners or not, I don't know. 
Then the partners — there would be Mr. Spitz, Mr. Lococo, and Mr. 
Gargotta, and myself. Then at times there was Mr. Friedlander and 
Mr. McElroy. 

Mr. Halley. Gizzo ? 

Mr. Klein. Gizzo ? Is that what you said, sir ? 

Mr, Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. No. He was never a partner there. 

Mr. White. He never was a partner there ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir; not to my knowledge. He never was a partner 
of mine. 

Mr. White. During this same time at any time during this same 
period did you also have an interest in the Green Hills gambling 
place ? 

The Chairman. Let us ask one or two questions about the Last 
Chance before you leave it. Is that the place on the line between 
Kansas and Missouri ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

The Chairman. Half in one State and half in the other ? 

Mr. Klein. Now 

The Chairman. Anyway it is a place 

Mr. Klein. It was supposed to be on a line that there was some 
controversy as to whether it was in Missouri or Kansas. 



260 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. It was also called the State Line Gambling place, 
wasn't it, the State Line Club? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. I think you are thinking of the State Line 
Tavern that was across the street. I think this was only known as 
the Last Chance. 

The Chairman. Anyway, at the Last Chance if the Missouri officers 
came they would move the operation to Kansas and if the Kansas 
officers came you would move it over to the Missouri side. 

Mr. Klein. I have heard them say they do that but I have never 
seen it done. 

The Chairman. Did you have a wire service out there so you could 
make horse bets ? 

Mr. Klein. The last time they were in operation they had a wire 
service. 

The Chairman. That was supplied by Harmony News Service here 
in Kansas City ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Was Charlie Binaggio ever a partner with you or 
had any interest in that operation with you ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. In the Last Chance? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. He had no interest in the bank roll ? 

Mr. Klein. The only time I was ever in partners with Mr. Binaggio 
in the gambling business was at Green Hills. 

The Chairman. Who did you sell the Last Chance out to when you 
left it? 

Mr. Klein. I just drew down the amount of bank roll that I had, 
and I think there were a little winners. I just took my share of that 
and didn't sell out to anyone. There wasn't anytliing to sell. 

The Chairman. Who did you sell your interest to in the Stork 
Club? 

Mr. Klein. I haven't sold it to anyone. I can sell 

The Chairman. Do you own the building over there? 

Mr. Klein. The Stork Club? 

The Chairman. Yes, Council Bluffs. 

Mr. I^EiN. About 220 to 230 miles. 

The Chairman. All right. Excuse me, Mr. White. 

Mr. White. During the time that the Last Chance was receiving 
the wire service were you also a partner in the wire-service operation? 

Mr. Klein. At the Last Chance ? 

Mr. White. When you were a partner in the Last Chance were you 
also a partner in the operation of the wire service? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. You are still a partner in the wire service, aren't you ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. When did you withdraw from that? 

Mr. Klein. Shortly before I entered the penitentiary. 

Mr. White. What did you do to withdraw? Did you sell your 
interest to anyone or abandon it? 

Mr. Klein. I took out the amount of earnings that was in there 
plus one-fourth of the amount of money that we had paid Mr. Partnoy 
and that was all. I didn't sell anything. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 261 

Mr. White. How much did that amount to, this last figure that you 
mentioned 'i 

Mr. Klein. Around $3,000. 

Mr. White. You say you took back the amount of money you paid 
Mr. Partnoy. What was the basis of your recovering the amount of 
money you paid Partnoy ? 

Mr. Kleix. Mr. Partnoy received $7,500 for, I would say, equip- 
ment, furniture, and things of that nature, and I think they deducted 
$100 a year depreciation. That left $7,200, as I say, one-fourth of 
the amount of money that I had invested in there. 

Mr. Whitt:. That was your original investment ? 

Mr. Klein, Yes, sir. 

Mr. White, Was that the year 1947 when you originally invested 
in the wire service ? 

Mr, Ivlein, I think it was 1947 ; yes, sir. Are you sure it was 1947, 
or was it maybe 1946 ? 

Mr. White. I am asking you. It is your testimony. 

Mr. Klein. The dates are sort of vague to me now. I have been 
gone and haven't had any of these things in front of me. 

Mr. White. It was either 1946 or 1947? 

Mr. I^ein. I am almost positive it was 1947 ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Are you positive that the amount was $7,500 that you 
and your partners paid to Mr. Partnoy for the fixtures, assets, fran- 
chise, and good will of the Harmony News Service? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; I am almost sure it was $7,500, 

Mr, White, In that period you were associated with whom in the 
wire service business ? 

Mr, Klein, Mr. Spitz, Mr. Lococo, and Mr. Gargotta. We were 
connected — Mr. Spitz, Mr. Gargotta, Mr. Lacoco, and I were con- 
nected with the wire service. ]\Ir. Spitz as the Universal Distribut- 
ing Co. ; Mr. Partnoy was with the Harmony Publishing Co. ; and 
Mr. Spitz was the negotiator of the Universal, and he negotiated busi- 
ness with Mr. Partnoy, the Harmony Publishing Co. 

Mr. White. "What was the Universal News Service? Was that a 
customer of Harmony ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. I would say Harmony was a customer of 
Universal. 

INIr. White, Where did the Universal News originate ? 

Mr, Klein, The company was formed when that service was brought 
to Kansas City. 

Mr. White. That is what 1 am trying to establish. Where was the 
service brought from? Who operated the incoming wire that Uni- 
versal purchased ? 

Mr. Klein. Tliat is the fellow that Mr. Spitz — someone — he could 
tell you more about that than I can. The only thing I know is that 
Mr. Spitz had the service, and then he came to me. That is how I 
became interested in the wire service. 

Mr. White. Prior to 1946 or 1947, whenever you and Spitz and 
others became interested in the wire service, there was another service 
known as Harmony, is that correct, Harmony News Service ? 

ISIr. Klein. Do you mean a service of its own, or do j^ou mean the 
name of the company, the Harmony ? The Harmony Publishing Co. 
was a place that, we will say, had an office, and they distributed service 
to customers. They received their service from — this is strictly a 



262 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

g-iiess — from either Cleveland, Chicago — ^Yel\, I will leave it just 
Cleveland or Chicago. 

The Chairman. Continental ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; that was it. Continental. They got their serv- 
ice from Continental. 

Mr. White. At that time did a new service from outside of the 
State come into Kansas City ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. "What was that new service ? 

Mr. Klein. "\\^iat was the name of it ? 

]\Ir. White. Trans- America ? 

]\Ir. Klein. Trans-America, yes, sir. 

Mr. White. So Universal was a customer of Trans- America in com- 
petition with Harmony who was a customer of Continental, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Klein. I guess that would be it, yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Who operated the Trans- America Co., do you know? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. I think that Trans- America came in, and that 
is when Mr. Partnoy switched or changed from the Continental to 
the Trans-America. 

]Mr. White. Do you know who was representing Trans- America in 
Kansas City ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir : I do not. 

Mr. White. Did Spitz ever discuss with you the opening of this new 
information service? 

Mr. Klein. No. That is when Spitz came to me and told me that 
he had service. 

Mr. White. Did he say how he acquired it, or did he give you any 
history of the news service in to the city ? 

Mr. Klein. Vaguely I would say he had this College Inn Bar, and 
I think that they said that some friend of his, or something, came 
through here and he met him or he was drinking or something 

Mr. White. Did he say where the friend came from ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir ; I don't think he did. 

Mr. Halley. May I help? I think you said some time ago that the 
wire service came from either Cleveland or Chicago. 

]Mr. Klein. Yes, sir; that is where I think it did come from. 

Mr. Halley. Isn't it a fact that Trans-America comes from 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Klein. I really don't know. I wasn't too sure of it. I under- 
stand that checks were made payable to the Trans-xVmerica in Chicago. 
AYliether that is the main office or whether that is a substation I really 
wouldn't know. 

Mr. Halley. What would they do ? Take the checks and mail them 
to Trans- America in Chicago ? 

Mr. Klein. Sir? 

Mr. Halley. They would take the checks and mail them to Trans- 
America in Chicago for the service ? 

Mr. Klein. INIail them, did you say? 

Mr. Halley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Klein. Yes; they would send the weekly check from here to 
the office or substation, whatever it would be, in Chicago. 

IVIr. Halley. You understood that Chicago interests ran Trans- 
America? 



ORGANIZED CRIME' IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 263 

Mr. Klein. That Chicago did what, sir ? 

Mr. Halley. That people from Chicago ran Trans-America, didn't 
they? 

Mr. KJLEiN. I really don't know. I don't know who ran Trans- 
America. I don't even know who runs Continental. I didn't know 
who ran Continental. 

Mr. White. In this period there were for a short time two wire 
services operating in competition with each other? 

Mr. Klein. For a very short time, I would say yes. 

Mr. White. How did the new wire service owned by yourself, Eddie 
Spitz, Lacoco, and Gus Gargotta 

Mr. Klein. That is Charles Gargotta. 

Mr. White. Charles Gargotta, excuse me. How did you get the 
customers to buy your service ? 

Mr. Klein. There wasn't any — I will say or I guess I would have 
to answer it this way : The customers were on the service, and when 
they had the two services, one dropped out because of lack of business, 
and Mr. Partnoy took over the Trans- America service. 

Mr. White. Why would a bookmaker — and I assume that book- 
^lakers were your customers ; is that right ? 

Mr. Klein. I imagine so. 

Mr. White. Why would a bookmaker buy two services? 

Mr. Klein. He didn't buy two. He just bought one. 

Mr. White. Why w^ould he abandon the Harmony Service and buy 
the new Trans-America service ? 

Mr. Klein. Truthfully, he didn't have to abandon, because one serv- 
ice just dropped out, and there was only one service in Kansas City. 

The Chairman. They merged ? 

Mr. Klein. I don't think they did at first, sir. I think they did 
later. I think at that particular time it was on a competitive basis. 

Mr. White. Mr. Klein, the point I am trying to get at is that 
Simon Partnoy for a good many years had been running a racing 
information service here known as the Harmony News Co. 

Mr. Klein. Are you asking or telling me ? 

Mr. White. I am starting a question. 

Mr. Klein. Oh. 

Mr. White. In 1947 a competing outfit known as the Trans-America 
started, and you and your associates had the franchise for Trans- 
America here in Kansas City. Immediately thereafter the customers 
of Harmony News Service stopped buying from Harmony and started 
buying news from Trans-America. What inducement did you give 
in the way of lower prices or better service or whatever it was ? 

Mr. Klein. No, I don't want to say you are misinformed because 
that isn't the proper word, but they didn't stop buying from one, and 
there wasn't any inducement. Here are two services. You are run- 
ning the service on a competitive basis. Mr. Partnoy was with the 
Continental, as you say, for a number of years. He received a salary, 
we will just put it $75 a week. I will try to make my point clear. 
He was offered $7,500 plus, I think, $125 a week, plus a percentage of 
the profits to abandon the Continental wire service and join over to 
the Trans- America. In doing so he didn't have to go to each indivi- 
dual person and say "You take wire service from this or this." One 
wire service was disconnected, I imagine that is what they would do, 
and the other wire service was connected, and they did not know 



264 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

whetlier tliey were buying service from tlie Continental or from Trans- 
America. 

Mr. White. Do you maintain, then, that Partnoy was an employee 
of Continental at say $75 a w^eek or some other similar salary ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. How could he sell the franchise of Continental for the 
fixtures, good will, et cetera that you said you paid $7,500 for? 

Mr. Klein. That is something that I really couldn't question or 
answer. He had been in this business or this particular office for a 
number of j^ears. He had deposits up. Whether they were his or the 
Continental's I don't know. Wliether he owned the tables and tele- 
phones and the name, is another thing that I really don't know. But 
he sold what he did have, if he had anything, for $7,500. 

Mr! White. Then he fed the same customers your news service 
instead of Continental News Service ? 

Mr. Klein. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. White. You said earlier you were a partner in the Green Hills 
gambling enterprise. Will you please tell us who else were the part- 
ners in that gambling establishment ? 

Mr. Klein. You mean the first time, sir, or the numerous occasions? 

Mr. White. From the time when you first joined it. 

Mr. Klein. I think we were open there three times, and I think the 
first time there was Mr. Jacoco, Mr. Gargotta, Mr. Binaggio, Mr. 
Wedow, and myself, Morris Klein. Then we o^Dened again and I 
think they were open for around 18 days or so, and I think the same 
partners were there, plus — I am not too positive of the exact dates 
and the names, but if they don't fit at one time they fit at another 
time. Mr. ISIcElroy and then this Mr. Friedlander. Then we opened 
again, and I think there was Mr. Friedlander, McEh'oy, and their 
group. I don't know just exactly what their group consisted of. And 
Mr. Wedow, Mr. Gargotta, Mr. Lacoco, and I. 

Mr. White. You were partners at all times when the place was open, 
to your knowledge? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What percentage of this operation did you have? 

Mr. Klein. That varied from 20 percent to, I would judge, around 
10 or 12 percent. 

Mr. White. What was the basis of your varying percentages here? 

Mr. Klein. The first time we were there, there were five partners. 
Then later on when Friedlander and McElroy and that group came in, 
that increased the partnership and lowered your rate of profit. 

Mr. White. Mr. Klein, I wish you woulcl explain to me why new 
partners are associated in a going enterprise with a resultant loss of 
profit to each of the original partners. 

Mr. Klein. There isn't a going enterprise. The place was closed, 
and each group has a following that certain people will follow certain 
groups because they have confidence in certain people. You take them 
in, and your percentage decreases, but your business increases. So 
actually you are not doing, so actually — I should have stopped at that 
time. The percentage decreases and your profit or business increases. 

Mr. White. In other words, you are just buying good will when 
jou take the new partners in ; is that the explanation? 

ISIr. Klein. I won't say you are buying good will. 

Mr. White. You are buying customers. 



ORGANIZED CRIME! IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 265 

Mr. Klein. Someone who is watching the business and also you are 
acquiring new customers. 

Mr. White. In the last 10 years, Mr. Klein, have you had any sources 
of income other than gambling activities ? 

The Chairman. Wait just a minute, Mr, Wliite. This Green Hills — 
is that Charlie Gargotta that was one of the pfartners? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Was Binaggio one of the partners ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; at one time. 

The Chairman. What interest did he have ? 

Mr. Klein. He had 20 percent at one time. 

The Chairman. '\^niat did Gargotta have? 

Mr. Klein. Twenty percent. 

The Chairman. What did you have^ 

Mr. Klein. Twenty percent. 

The Chairman. How much did that pay, generally, a month? 
Twenty percent? 

Mr. Klein. I think the first year we were in operation — I am guess- 
ing again, sir — I think it was around $10,000 to $12,000 made per 
person, and the following year I think there was around $25,000 
made per person. 

The Chairman. Did you have a wire service out there ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Depending on which was operating then, was that 
with one or the other, Harmony or Trans- America ? 

Mr. Klein. At Green Hills ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. The first time that we were 

The Chairman. Did you take horse betting out there? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The first time you were what? 

Mr. Klein. We were in operation there; we had service from the 
Harmony, I would say. We were not connected with the wire service 
at that time. 

The Chairman. Did Gargotta and Binaggio come out and actively 
help in the running of the place ? 

Mr. Klein. Mr. Gargotta was there every day. Mr. Binaggio was 
there on an average of 3 days to 4 days a week. 

The Chairman. When he was there would he participate in the 
operations ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, I would say that he did up to a certain point. He 
would stand around and watch. 

The Chairman. Did he handle some of the gaming devices? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. He would stand at the dice table. 

The Chairman. You had dice tables, roulette, wire service, slot 
machines ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. All we had there was dice tables and wire 
service, horses. 

The Chairman. Which was the bigger operation, the horses or the 
dice tables ? 

Mr. Klein. How do you mean that, sir ? 

The Chairman. Which one took in the more money ? 

Mr. Klein. I would say the dice table took in the most money. The 
horses did more business and you had more customers. 



266 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. Each of you had 20 percent. How many more 
were there in this partnership ? 

Mr. Klein. Outside the three that you mentioned ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. There was Mr. Lacoco and Mr. Wedow. 

The Chairman. They each had 20 percent too ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. White. Mr. Wedow owned the building, did he not? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. White. Did Jim Balestrere have a percentage in that operation ? 

Mr. Klein. At the time I was there ? 

Mr. White. At any time, to your knowledge. 

Mr. Klein. As long as I was'there I couldn't say that Jim Balestrere 
did have anything to do with the operation. 

Mr. White. The whole time when it was open you did have an 
interest in it, didn't you? 

Mr. Klein. No. The place has been open — it started in the early 
thirties, and even went into the early forties, but I wasn't in the place 
and didn't become an active partner until the spring of 1945. 

Mr. White. How many years have you known Charlie Binaggio? 

Mr. Klein. I would say roughly around 20 years. 

Mr. White. Did you participate with him in his political activities? 

Mr. Klein. I worked for him ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Klein. At one time I served as a precinct captain, and the last 
time I served as — I had charge of advertising, securing cars, getting 
gasoline, having ballots printed, and things of that nature. 

Mr. White. Did your participation in any of these gambling enter- 
prises result from your political connections with Binaggio ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Would you say that in any sense you w^ere rewarded in 
any way by being given a percentage in one of these operations because 
of your political activity? 

Mr. Klein. Absolutely not. I would say that is not so. 

Mr. White. You had a piece of several operations at various times 
during the last 10 years which required either little or no investment 
and little or no actual work or supervision in the operation of the 
business. Is that true? 

Mr. Klein. No. It required a lot of work and supervision. 

Mr. White. Did you do any work out at the Last Chance ? 

Mr. Klein. I did at first ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. When you say "at first," how long did you continue to 
work there while j^ou were drawing an income from that operation ? 

Mr. Klein. I either worked — there were two shifts. The first shift 
came on to work at noon and worked until 8. The next shift caine to 
work at 8 and worked until 3 or 4 in the morning. I either worked the 
day shift or the night shift and worked every day. 

Mr. WiirrE. What did you do? 

Mr. Klein. Watched the table, supervised, see about giving credit 
to customers and watched to see that everything was running smoothly. 

Mr. White. What work did you do in the Universal News Co. ? 

Mr. Klein. None. That is the service you are talking about, sir? 

Mr. White. Yes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 267 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir; none. 

Mr. White. Incidentally, what was your income from Universal 
News Service during the time you were a partner ? 

The Chairman. Per montli, just about how much did you get? 

Mr. Klein. It wasn't that way, by the month. At the end of the 
year what was left in the bank was the amount of money that was split 
four ways. Each month or week as you received the money, Mr. Part- 
noy would turn it over to Mr. Spitz minus his salary and his per- 
centage. Mr. Spitz would then deposit the money in the bank unless 
there were any new bills or any bills of any kind that had to be paid, 
and then at the end of the year the amount of money that was there was 
drawn out and split. 

Mr. White. What was your percentage of the partnership? 

Mr. Klein. Twenty-five percent, of the four. 

Mr. White. What would you say the net profit of this operation was 
during the year 194:7, for example ? 

Mr. Klein. Koughly again I would say around $10,000 or $12,000, 
maybe $15,000. 

Mr. White. If I told you it was closer to $45,000, would you assume 
that that was correct? 

]SIr. Klein. You mean $45,000 would be the net profit minus — would 
that be a net profit ? 

Mr. Whiit:. A net profit for the operation, 

Mr. Klein. Sir, I think that your figures are wrong. 

Mr. White. You were also a member of an organization known as 
the Mo-Kan Publishing Co., were you not? 

Mr. Klein. I think it w^as the Mo-Kan and then changed to Uni- 
versal. I think it started as the Mo-Kan ; yes, sir, 

Mr. White. When you say "Mo-Kan" or "Universal" we are re- 
feiTing actually to the same partnership? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir, 

Mr. White. If the tax returns of the Mo-Kan Publishing Co. 
showed a net income of $15,000 for the year 1917, you would be very 
much surprised ? 

Mr. Kli:in. Well, if it showed it, then I imagine that would be their 
profit, but I don't think it will show that profit, that is, clear profit. 

Mr. White. Assuming that it did, you would get 25 percent of 
whatever the net profit was? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; I would get 25 percent. 

]\Ir. White. If it had been $10,000, you would have gotten a quarter 
of that, or $10,000? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. For 1 year's operation, that is. You put up presum- 
ably 25 percent of the $7,500 needed as the original investment in 
that company ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. But you did not do any work in connection with the 
operation of the company? 

]Mr. Klein, No, sir. 

Mr. White. I suggest that you were being rewarded for some 
consideration, perhaps other services that you rendered to one of 
the other partners, 

68958 — 51— pt. 4a 18 



268 ORGANIZED CRIME EN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. No. Like I explained to you, when Mr. Spitz had a 
diance to get this service, he either took it, tied it up or did some- 
thing with it, or promised the man he was going to take it. Then he 
talked to Mr. Partnoy. Then Avhen Mr. Partnoy changed over to 
Mr. Spitz, when he had the two wires, he had talked to me and 
wondered if I had known any of these fellows that were buying the 
service, and we were going to canvass them and try to sell them the 
same as selling someone, oh, as an example, trying to compare a loaf 
of Wholesome bread and Bond bread, that Bond bread is better than 
Wholesome bread. 

Mr. White. You told me a moment ago that there was no question 
of salesmanship involved, that Mr. Partnoy just put the distributing 
wire over from one service to another. 

Mr. Klein. That is true. At that time we didn't know he was 
going to do that. 

Mr. Halley. Was there a little period during which the two serv- 
ices w^ere operating in competition, was there any period at all during 
which Universal 

Mr. Klein. I will put it this way, at a little period of time they 
had two services in Kansas City. The Continental was in operation, 
Trans-America was not in operation. But after a short while the 
Trans-America was in operation and the Continental was not in 
operation. 

Mr. Halley. During the early period the service came in on Conti- 
nental, and Partnoy was receiving it and selling it to a group of cus- 
tomers, is that right ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. At that time he was there by himself and none of your 
group was in with him, is that right? 

Mr. Klein. That is true. 

Mr. Halley. Then came a period when Universal was born, is that 
right ? 

Mr. Klein. The Mo-Kan I think at first. 

Mr. Halley. Mo-Kan. Who were the partners in Mo-Kan ? 

Mr. Klein. The same partners that were in Universal. 

Mr. Halley. Gargotta? 

Mr. Klein. Lacoco, Spitz, and myself. 

Mv. Halley. You four organized Mo-Kan. In the very early days 
where were you getting your information ? 

Mr. Klein. As I said, the wire was in Kansas City 

Mr. Halley. But that was the Continental wire. 

Mr. Klein. There was also a Trans-America wire. 

Mr. Halley. Were you getting the Trans-America wire into Mo- 
Kan? Did Mo-Kan have an office? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. Yes; the Mo-Kan was receiving a service, but 
it was lying dormant. 

Mr. Halley. Then there was some talk about going out and selling 
the service to various bookmakers, is that right? 

Mr. Klein. That is true. 

Mr. Halley. You were going to be one of the salesmen, were you 
not? 

Mr. Klein. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Who were the other salesmen going to be? Was Mr. 
Gargotta a salesman? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 269 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. Spitz and I were going to be the salesmen. 

Mr. Hallet. Spitz and you were the salesmen. What was your 
selling method ? 

Mr. Klein. None, outside of going to them, knowing someone per- 
sonally and speaking to him and asking them as a friend to buy from 
you instead of buying from someone that they don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Isn't it a fact that you and Spitz had known asso- 
ciates who were feared and that people wouldn't want to refuse to buy 
your service ? Isn't that the fact ? 

Mr. Klein. No. Mr. Spitz when he talked to me I don't think that 
he had spoken to Mr. Gargotta or Mr. Lacoco. When he talked to me 
as far as I knew I had 25 percent of the service and who the partners 
were I did not know. 

Mr. Hallet. At that time you were to be the selling end of it, you 
and Spitz? 

Mr. Klein. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. At that time were you and Spitz in the Missouri Elec- 
tric business ? 

Mr. Klein. Were we in the Missouri Electric ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. No. Spitz was never in it. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. At that time were you in the Ace Sales? 

Mr. Klein. Now, we were either in there just before that or just 
a little after after. It was right around that period. 

Mr. Halley. At that time were you in the Green Hills ? 

Mr. Klein. During the time of the service? 

Mr. Halley. Yes, at the time you were just starting. 

Mr. Klein. No. 

Mr. Halley. In 1947. 

Mr. Klein. The Green Hills was either just closing or just ready 
to close or just did close. 

Mr. Halley. You were known then as a friend of Binaggio's around 
St. Louis, were you not? 

Mr. Klein. In St. Louis ? 

Mr. Halley. Around St. Louis. I mean Kansas City, of course. 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You were known as a friend of Binaggio's around 
Kansas City ? Is that right ? 

Mr. Klein. I was a partner of his ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You were a partner of his and his close associate in 
business matters ? 

Mr. Klein. I don't know whether close associate 

Mr. Halley. Close enough to be a partner. 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. You were also a political worker for him at that time ? 

Mr. Klein. I worked for him in the election ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halijcy. Your other associates included people like Lacoco, is 
that right? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Gargotta ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 



270 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. Friedlander ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And Balestrere? 
Mr. Ki/EiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Haixet. Wasn't he in Green Hills ? 

Mr. Klein. In all the time I was there he has never been a partner. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know Balestrere ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; I have seen Mr. Balestrere. 

Mr. Halley. Did you speak to him ? 

Mr. Klein. Outside of nodding or maybe an occasional "hello" I 
don't think I have ever said four words to the man in my life. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever go out and try to sell this wire service 
for Mo-Kan to any bookie? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Never tried to sell it to a single bookie? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Before that was necessary, you made your deal with 
Partnoy ; is that right ? 

Mr. Klein. Mr. Spitz did ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you present when Spitz talked to Partnoy 2 

Mr. Klein, No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did Spitz ever tell you what he told Partnoy ? 

Mr. Klein. No ; outside of he told me he made a deal with Partnoy 
and Partnoy was going over in to the Trans-America service for 
that $7,500. 

Mr. Halley. You and Spitz then between you had how much of 
Mo-Kan, what percentage ? 

Mr. Klein. Fifty percent. 

Mr. Halley. Fifty percent, and your end was the selling end; is 
that right? 

Mr. Klein. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. When you discussed it with Gargotta and Lacoco were 
you quite confident that you could sell the service to the various 
bookies ? 

Mr. Klein. I never discussed it with Gargotta and Lacoco. 

Mr. Halley. Who did? 

Mr. Klein. I think Mr. Spitz did. 

Mr. Halley. He was the spokesman all around ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. He just told you where he stood. 

Mr. Klein. No ; he came to me when the service was first offered 
him, or if it was offered him — I don't really know — came to me and 
asked me if I was interested in going into this service business. He 
explained to me just about what we would have to do, and truthfully 
he explained the whole thing to me and asked if I would be interested 
in taking 25 percent of it, 

Mr. Halley. What would you have to do, go out and sell it to the 
bookies ? Is that right ? 

Mr. Klein. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You were rather well known around Kansas City as 
a high-school athlete, basketball player ? 

Mr. Klein. No. I was born and raised here. I have been here all 
my life. I know a lot of people. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever a boxer ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 271 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. I was active in Jewish sports and belonged to 
the Jewish Center and know a lot of Jewish people. 

Mr. Halley. Do vou know a lot of politicians? 

Mr. Klein. I don't know how to answer that. I knew some people 
who were interested in politics. 

The Chairman. Did yon and Mr. Binaggio try to get somebody 
substituted for Chief Johnson here? 

Mr. Klein. Did I ? 

The Chairman, Yes. 

Mr. Klein. I have never even spoken to any of the commissioners, 
policemen, any official of any kind, or was interested in who was or 
wasn't chief. 

The Chairman. Maybe you haven't spoken to them. But did you 
and Mr. Binaggio have some plan to get better protection from the 
police? 

Mr. Klein. I never ; no, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, he did talk with you about it ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. Mr. Binaggio discussed very little with me in 
regard to almost anything. There is very little he ever told me. In 
fact he told me nothing. 

The Chairman. This fellow Hutter that you were associated with — 
wasn't he sentenced for something down in Alabama, a hold-up ? 

]\Ir. Klein. I didn't know Hutter until I met him one time here in 
Kansas City. Wliat his background was I really didn't know. 

The Chairman. You heard that ? 

Mr. Klein. I heard that later ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How did you handle all these financial transac- 
tions ? Did you have a checking account ? 

Mr. Klein. How do you mean, sir ? 

The Chairman. Would you be paid by the wire service by check or 
would you deposit a check in the bank or was it cash? 

Mr. Klein. There was a check given each week or month by the wire 
service, and that was deposited in a bank. 

The Chairman. To you? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. At one time it was the Mo-Kan, and later it 
was Universal. 

The Chairman. I know, but I am talking about when the wire serv- 
ice paid you. 

Mr. Klein. Sometimes by check. Sometimes we would draw the 
cash out. 

The Chairman. Did you have a bank account to put your money in ? 

Mr. Klein. You mean my personal money ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir; I had a bank account. 

The Chairman. All along ? Where was your bank account ? 

Mr. Klein. I had a bank account at the Merchant's Bank and also 
the Produce and Exchange Bank. 

The Chairman. What was this operation you had at Omaha, Nebr. ? 

Mr. Klein. How do you mean that ? 

The Chairman. Didn't you have a gambling place there ? 

Mr. Klein. It was gambling and a night club. 

The Chairman. When was that ? 

Mr. Klein. I think I said the fall of 1047, 1948, and part of 1949. 



272 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Tlie Chairman. Do you want to ask him about that, Mr. White, 
that Omaha operation ? 

Mr. White. I think we did that. 

The Chairman. What was the name of that place ? 

Mr. Klein. The Stork Club. 

The Chairman. I thought that was at Council Bluffs, Iowa. 

Mr. Klein. It was. He said Omaha, and I think I corrected you, 
didn't I, sir? I said Council Bluffs, Iowa. That is the reason I 
didn't correct you. That is what I thought you meant. Council 
Bluffs, Iowa. 

The Chairman. Did you have any in Denver, Colo., or in Colorado? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir ; I have never been to Denver in my life. 

The Chairman. You have told us about all the gambling operations 
that you have been interested in, have you ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; I think I have. 

The Chairman. How about iTll East Ninth Street here in the city t 

Mr. Klein. Oh, yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you have a dice game there ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Lacoco, Nigro, Klein, Eddie Spitz? 

Mr. Klein. Nigro ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How long did you run that? 

Mr. Klein. About 5 months. 

The Chairman. Was that in the city of Kansas City ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you have a wire service there ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Was that a large operation ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you run openly where anybody could come in 
if they wanted to gamble ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. How did you get protection from the police for that 
operation ? 

Mr. Klein. We didn't get any. 

The Chairman. They knew you were operating, didn't they? 

Mr. KxEiN. They came in there several times. We had the doors 
bolted, we had iron doors and they couldn't get in. 

The Chairman. They knew you were there but couldn't get in? 

Mr. Klein. They came in several times and arrested several of the 
participants. 

The Chairman. You would just go on with your operations after 
they had arrested you until the next time ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever get fined for operating that place? 

Mr. Klein. I wasn't in the place. 

The Chairman. How much was your investment in that place? 
How much of the bank roll did you have there ? 

Mr. Klein. I think that I hacl either 20 or 25 percent of that place. 

The Chairman. You got the wire service from Mo-Kan? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir ; Harmony. 

The Chairinian. That was fairly recently, wasn't it ? 

Mr. Klein. That was the last part of last year and the early part of 
this year. 



ORGANIZED CRIME: EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 273 

The Chairman. The early part of 1950 ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. This Last Chance — is that also called the State 
Line gambling place ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. I think I told this gentleman that the State 
Line is a tavern located across the street from the Last Chance tavern, 
and I think at one time that may have been it. 

The Chairman. Did you have an interest in the State Line gambling 
tavern? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. How about the hotel at Ninth and Main. Did you 
operate a dice game there? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. I think that was in the early part of 1948. 

The Chairman. Who were your partners in that? 

Mr. Klein. I think just Mr. Spitz and I were there. 

The Chairman. Was Tony Bondon there ? 

Mr. Klein. Tony Bondon worked there ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Who was he ? 

Mr. Klein. You mean in reference to some individual or just what? 

The Chairman. Is he related to Charles Binaggio ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. He was his father-in-law. 

The Chairman. And did Binaggio have an interest in it? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you sure ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did Spitz have an interest in it ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How about Homer Cooper ; did he have an interest? 

Mr. Klein. Homer Cooper I would say had a sort of working inter- 
est. He would draw a salary and if it made any money he would 
receive a bonus or commission. 

The Chairman. Did you have a wire service there? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How many of those places did you operate? We 
have reminded you of two. How many more around town did you 
have ? 

Mr. IClein. Truthfully, it is awfully hard for me to think. I have 
been away from this for a little while. 

(Witness and his attorney conferring.) 

The Chairman. What did you start to say ? 

Mr. Klein. Will you please read 

The Chairman. Do you think of any more? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir; I don't think of any more. 

Mr. Halley. There is at least one more. Didn't you have a place in 
California ? 

Mr. Klein. Gambling place ? 

Mr. Halley. A club. • 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. The La Brea Club? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear of the La Brea Club ? 

Mr. Klein. I have heard of it, yes. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever heard of Homer Cooper ? 



274 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. That was not a gambling place. 

Mr. Halley. What kind of place was it? 

Mr. Klein, That was a restaurant. 

Mr. Haixet. Did you have an interest in it? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Did Homer Cooper have an interest in it ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

]\rr. Halley. What was your connection with it? 

]\Ir. Klein. None. My brother was interested with Homer Cooper. 

Mr. Halley, Your brother ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Halley. He purchased that interest from Mickey Cohen ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know the circumstances ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. Mickey Cohen, I understood, owned the place 
and if I am not mistaken I think it was operated or intended to operate 
as a gambling place, but then it was a restaurant fully equipped, with 
booths and tables, steam tables and all that. They had to close, I think. 
Mickey Cohen shot someone or someone shot him or something. Then 
my brother bought the place from him intending to open a barbecue 
place, and that is what they did. 

Mr. Halley. What is your brother's name ? 

Mr. Klein. Gus, Gus Klein. 

Mr. Halley. Did you lend him the money ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir; some money I loaned him, yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. To purchase the La Brea Club? 

Mr. Klein. No; to purchase — no, sir. 

Mr. Halley, What did you lend him the money for? 

Mr. Klein, After he was in there, for some equipment, for whisky 
equipment, buying merchandise and things of that nature. 

Mr. Halley. Who introduced your brother to Mickey Cohen? 

Mr. Klein. I don't think anyone introduced him to Mickey Cohen. 

Mr. Halley. Did he know Mickey Cohen ? 

Mr. Klein. No. I think it happened to be that they were looking 
for a place and this place had a "For sale" sign on it, and I think 
he came in contact with another fellow named Tucker, or something. 
I think Tucker in turn introduced him to Mickey Cohen or had him 
meet him to buy it from Mickey Cohen. I think that is the way it 
was. He at no time was ever connected. He was in the fruit and veg- 
etable business. 

Mr. Halley. Your brother? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Cooper was in the Last Chance ; wasn't he, with you ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Had he also been at Green Hills ? 

Mr. Klein. At first ? At one time Cooper did work there. 

Mr. Halley. Was he a partner of your brother's at La Brea Club? 

Mr. Klein. He was. They went out of business. 

Mr. Halley. Did they sell out or just discontinue? 

Mr. Klein. They sold out. 

Mr. Halley. To whom did they sell out ? 

Mr. Klein. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME; IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 275 

Mr. Klein. No. sir: I do not. I think it was known as Tony's Bar- 
becne instead of the La Brea. It may have been the La Brea Chib 
at one time, bnt it was Tony's Barbecne. 

The Chairman. That is all I have. 

Let ns ask leadine: qnestions and get to the point we want to get 
to. We have to speed up here, gentlemen. 

Mr. White. Have you accompanied Charlie' Binaggio on trips to 
St. Louis and while there met politicians in company with Binaggio? 

Mr. Klein. Before you go any further, you won't have to finish 
the question. I have never accompanied Charlie Binaggio anywhere 
outside of Kansas City. We have gone to places in Kansas City, but 
I have never accompanied him anywhere. 

Mr. White. Didn't you tell two police officers who interviewed you 
in the penitentiary that you had been to St. Louis with Charlie Binag- 
gio on several occasions, and once you went to the ball game on one 
occasion ; you went with Binaggio and contacted a man named Johnny 
Joynt ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. 

Mr. White. And a man by the name of Sestric ? 

Mr. Klein. I was in St. Louis to see an all-star ball game; my wife 
and I went up there. Mr. Binaggio was in St. Louis at the time, I 
think that I was right, and I think that you have the correct infor- 
mation, that a Mr. Sestric was there. Mr. Tony Joynt I have seen 
here on numerous occasions. I have spoken to him. I have even had 
lunch with him. 

Mr. White, Is he a law^^er ?• 

Mr. Klein. Yes, sir. There wasn't anything that was strictly per- 
sonal. We just exchanged pleasantries and that is all the discussions 
I have had with him. With Mr, Sestric I may have just said "Hello" 
or "How are you" or something that you would say to anyone else, and 
that is as far as I have ever gone with Mr, Sestric. I have been in St. 
Louis when Mr, Binaggio was there, but I have never accompanied 
Mr, Binaggio anywhere, 

Mr, White. Did you go there for the purpose of meeting him there? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir. My wife and I w^ent there to see an all-star ball 
game, 

Mr, Halley, Do you know Tony Accardo ? 

Mr, Klein, Tom' Accardo? The name means nothing to me; no, 
sir, 

Mr. Halley. You have heard the name before; haven't you? 

Mr, Klein, I don't think I have even heard the same before. 

Mr, White, Tony Accardo is also known as Joe Batters, 

Mr. Klein. Joe who ? 

]\Ir. White. Batters, in Chicago. 

Mr. Klein. There is a Joe Bananas I read about in the paper. Is 
that the same one ? They even had his picture in a magazine, I think. 

Mr. White. You don't know him ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir ; I have never seen him in my life. 

The Chairman. What Chicago gamblers would come down to Kan- 
sas City that you would see and talk with ? 

Mr. Klein. I don't think I have ever — that is, I can say, unless 
someone pointed someone out, I don't think I have ever seen a Chicago 
gambler clown here in Kansas City, 

The Chairmax, Either one of the Fischetti brothers ? 



276 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Klein. No, sir; I don't tliink I have ever seen them. 

The Chairman. Any of the Capone boys ? 

Mr. Klein. No, sir; I wouldn't know a Capone boy if he was sit- 
ting here in this room right now. 

The Chairman. Did you know Frank Capolla? 

Mr. Klein. Is he a little fellow 

The Chair]vian. Well, he got sent out of the country on a narcotics 
charge. 

Mr. Klein. I saw him at the club, I think, two or three different 
times. 

The Chairman. Did you have any business relationships with him? 

Mr. Klein. None whatsoever. 

The Chairman. That is all, unless there are some more questions. 

Mr. Halley. I have nothing else. 

The Chairman. I believe that is all, Mr. Klein. 

Mr. Klein. All right, sir ; thank you. 

The Chairman. I think for the record the two letters the chamber 
of commerce wrote the Governor should be made a part of the record. 
Will you supply them to the reporter? 

Mr. Wilson. Yes ; I will. 

The Chairman. They can be marked as exhibits to Mr. Chambers' 
testimony. 

(The documents referred to may be found on pp. 58 and 59 of 
part 4.) 

The Chairman. Call Mr. Hendren. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this com- 
mittee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Hendren. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN H. HENDREN, ATTORNEY, JEFFERSON 

CITY, MO. 

Mr. Halley. What is your full name ? 

Mr. Hendren. John H. Hendren. 

Mr. Halley. And your occupation ? 

Mr. Hendren. I am an attorney. 

Mr. Halley. Where is your office? 

Mr. Hendren. 105 West High Street, Jefferson City, Mo. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Hendren, did you have anything to do with the 
1948 gubernatorial campaign in this State ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was your connection with it? 

Mr. Hendren. I am now State chairman of the Democratic Party, 
and was during the 1948 campaign. In the primary election I was 
the campaign manager for Gov. Forrest Smith. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have anything to do with the collection of 
campaign funds? 

Mr. Hendren. Nothing officially. I was the campaign manager. 
There was a treasurer for the committee, and a treasurer for Forrest 
Smith's campaign. 

Mr. Halley. Can you tell tlie con)mittee where it can get full in- 
formation as to the contributors to the campaign? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIMEl IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 277 

Mr. Halley. Where can we go for that information ? 

Mr. Hendren. Are you talking about the general-election cam- 
paign ? 

Mr. Halley. First, the Smith campaign for Governor, including the 
primary ; and second, the general-election campaign. 

Mr. Hendren. The general-election campaign contributions are 
kept by the treasurer of the State committee, who has those records 
here available, I understand, today. 

Mr. Hallet. ^m\o is that? 

Mr. Hendren. Mr. Edlund, the treasurer, and Mr. B. E. Kagland, 
the assistant treasurer, 

Mr. Halley. With reference to the primary, where are the records ? 

Mr. Hendren. As far as I know, Governor Smith has the records. 
He filed the campaign report. I don't have that. I didn't keep it. 

Mr. Halley. Did ]\Ir. Edlund and Mr. Ragland operate under 
jour supervision? 

Mr. Hendren. No ; I wouldn't say they operated under my super- 
vision. The State committee is made up of the chairman, the treas- 
urer, the secretary of the committee. 

Mr. Halley. Under that joint direction, did Mr. Edlund and Mr. 
Ragland keep books of account showing all contributions and all ex- 
penditures ? 

Mr. Hendren. I assume they did. That was their responsibility. 

Mr. Halley. Did they have instructions to that effect? 

Mr. Hendren. Well, I didn't instruct them directly to do it, but I 
assume they did. 

Mr. Halley. Was that their legal duty ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes ; under the State law, the treasurer of the cam- 
paign committee is to keep a record of all the contributions and ex- 
penditures. 

Mr. Halley. In general, can you tell the committee whether any 
contributions were made by any of the gamblers in East St. Louis? 

Mr. Hendren. I have no knowledge of that. 

Mr.. Halley. Have you heard of any contributions being made 
through Charles Binaggio? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did j^ou ever discuss any campaign contributions with 
Charles Binaggio? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear that a campaign contribution was 
made by Gregory Moore ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. That is to the State committee? 

Mr. Halley. To any campaign. 

Mr. Hendren. To any committee ? No, sir ; I know nothing about 
that. 

Mr. Halley. Or by a Frank Wortman ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. There have been a great many newspaper stories and 
rumors that must have come to your attention since the campaign 

Mr. Hendren. I have seen that in the paper. 

Mr. Halley. Saying that Binaggio had collected a large amount 
of money for the Smith campaign for Governor. Have you read 
about that ? 



278 ORGANIZED CRIME ES" INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hendren. I have read those articles in the paper ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You were chairman of the State committee at that 
time '^ 

Mr. Hendren. I was chairman of the State committee during the 
fall campaign ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have yon ever seen fit to investigate the truth of these 
rumors? 

Mr. Hendren. I don't know what you mean, "investigate" the 
rumors. 

Mr. Halley. Did you cause any investigation to be made as to 
whether the Democratic Party had accepted it — I think it is reputed 
to be $100 — from Binaggio in connection with the 1948 campaign ? 

Mr. Hendren. I have investigated as far as the State committee is 
concerned, and there was no contribution like that made to the State 
committee as far as I know. 

Mr. Halley. You have been luiable to find any trace of such a con- 
tribution ? 

Mr. Hendren. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Have you spoken to Governor Smith about it? 

Mr. Hendren. Have I spoken to him about that particular matter ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr, Hendren. I haven't particularly spoken to him about it. He 
and I both talked about these articles in the paper. 

Mr. Halley. What conversation was that? 

Mr. Hendren. Just generally that the articles in the paper said that 
those contributions were made, but I had no knowledge of them. 

Mr. Halley. Were such contributions made ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not that I ever knew anything about. 

Mr, Halley. Were any contributions made by Binaggio out of 
money he collected from people in Kansas City ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr, Halley, None whatsoever, 

Mr, Hendren. I don't know anything about it. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know whether Binaggio did contribute to 
the campaign ? 

Mr. Hendren, If he did, he didn't do it to my knowledge. I never 
saw any contributions, 

Mr. iHALLEY. You don't know of even one dollar in contributions 
made by Binaggio ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 
. Mr. Halley. Or made through Binaggio ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you recall ever having spoken to a Judge Eversole 
about a contribution to be made by William Molasky ? 

Mr. PIendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Will you tell the committee about that ? 

Mr. Hendren. As I remember that, in the fall of 1948, sometime, I 
can't place the dates exactly, he was in headquarters and said there 
were some Jewish people in St. Louis who wanted to make a contri- 
bution to the Governor's campaign. 

Mr. Halley. Who said that, Eversole ? 

Mr. Hendren. Judge Eversole; yes, sir. He said they wanted to 
make a recommendation to the Governor for a Jewish member on the 
police board. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 279 

Mr. Halley. The St. Louis Police Board ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes. As I remember, just thinking back, I told the 
judge that I knew the Governor would not let anybody name anyone 
on any board or make any commitments about any appointments to a 
board, whether they contributed or not. 

I believe later on he asked me if they could submit some names, 
and whether the Governor would consider them or not. As I remem- 
ber, the conversation was that I knew they could submit names, but 
the Governor might consider them and he might not. He wouldn't 
make any commitments on any appointments to the board. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you know who was making the contribution ? 

Mr. Hexdren. Not at that time. 

Mr. Halley. Did you later find out ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. It was Molasky, is that right ? 

Mr. Hendren. It was a man who, as I found out since then, is 
Molasky. 

Mr. Halley. And the amount of the contribution was $2,500 ? 

Mr. Hendren. $2,000. 

Mr. Halley. $2,000? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever told who Molasky wanted on the police 
board ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir, I never was. Judge Eversole told me at that 
time, as I remember it, that he would like to recommend Morris 
Shenker's appointment on the board. 

Mr. Halley. You turned that down ? 

Mr. Hendren. I told him I didn't- think the Governor would con- 
sider him because he had such a large criminal practice. I didn't 
have anything to do with the appointments. 

Mr. Halley. When the contribution was made, you did receive 
a list of, I think, three names, is that right ? 

Mr. Hendren. I don't believe I did. I have no recollection of any 
names that w^ere submitted. 

Mr. Halley. W^asn't there some kind of list submitted by Molasky 
of three candidates for the job? 

Mr. Hendren. Not to me, that I have any recollection of. I think 
Morris Shenker talked to me at one time about submitting a list, but 
whether he did or not, I don't remember. 

Mr. Halley. You do recall, however, having been told originally 
that Molasky wanted to recommend Shenker for the job ? 

Mr. Hendren. That was my understanding. 

Mr. Halley. That was the time you said you wouldn't allow the 
Governor to be dictated to at all ? 

Mr. Hendren. I didn't say I wouldn't allow him to be dictated to. 
I knew he wouldn't allow himself to be dictated to. 

Mr. Halley. Sometime after that, the suggestion was made that 
perhaps they would like to suggest a list of names ? 

Mr. Hendren. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. I have no other questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Hendren, how old are you ? 

Mr. Hendren. Forty-three, Senator. 

The Chairman. When did you get interested in politics ? 



280 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hendren. Well, I think it was in the 1932 campaign in Demo- 
crat club work. 

The Chairman. Have you ever held an office yourself ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

The Chairman. This Molasky money that you got — I believe he- 
and Mr. Shenker came up to your hotel room and gave you the 
$2,000 ? 

Mr. Hendren. That is right. 

The Chairman. I understand that does not show up on the contri- 
butions of the Democratic campaign or of the other one. I am not 
sure about this, but does it or not ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not as a campaign of the State committee, Senator, 
because it wasn't a campaign contribution to the State committee. 

The Chairman. What was it a campaign contribution to ? 

Mr. Hendren. As I understood Mr. Shenker and Mr. Molasky, 
that was a contribution to the Governor's campaign. 

The Chairman. Wliat sort of records did the Governor keep ? 

Mr. Hendren. As far as I know, he didn't keep any personal 
records. I turned that money over, as I have stated publicly to the 
press, to the assistant treasurer, at our headquarters, to keep. 

The Chairman. That is Mr. Eagland ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Apparently he did not report it ; is that the situa- 
tion ? 

Mr. Hendren. It wasn't reported in the reports of the State com- 
mittee. 

The Chairman. Were there any other moneys turned over that way 
that weren't reported ? 

Mr. Hendren. I think there were a little more. I have investigated 
since then. There were some other cash contributions that were turned 
in that were sent out and spent in the campaign. 

The Chairman. How much did they amount to, do you know? 

Mr. Hendren. I imagine $5,000 or $6,000. 

The Chairman. Is that your best estimate? 

Mr. Hendren. That is my best estimate. I didn't keep a record. 

The Chairman. Did Mr. Ragland actually keep the records or Mr. 
Edlund? 

Mr. Hendren. Mr. Ragland. 

The Chairman. What was the treasurer's name? 

Mr. Hendren. Edlund. He lives here in Kansas City, Senator. 

The Chairman. Has not Senator Hogan done a lot of bragging 
about having collected a lot of money from a lot of people, collected 
money from gamblers and what not, and turned it over to you or the 
State campaign treasurer ? 

Mr. Hendren. I have heard that as hearsay, sir. 

The Chairman. Nobody has made any statement to you? 

Mr. Hendren. He never turned over a nickel to me in his life. 

The Chairman. As Mr. Halley indicated, I think it is well to get 
these things out and talk about them. There have been all sorts of 
rumors around, including one that Binaggio collected a veiy sizable 
amount of money, $150,000, and took it to the Governor with the idea 
of getting the State opened up, and the Governor refused to accept 
it or have a part in it, and by the time he got it back to the people he 



ORGANIZED CRIMEi IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 281 

collected it from, it dwindled down to $100,000. That may have been 
one reason for his liquidation. Do you know anything about that ? 

Mr. Hendren. I know nothing about that at all, sir. 

The Chairman. You have read about it in the papers? 

Mr. Hendren. I have read the news articles. That is all I know. 

The Chairman. Mr. Hendren, during the campaign, Binaggio did 
take an active part in the Governor's race ? 

Mr. Hendren. He took an active part here in Kansas City, as far as 
I know, Senator, He wasn't around at headquarters. 

The Chairman. "Was he around headquarters ? 

Mr. Hendren. I never saw him at headquarters in my life. 

The Chairman. Who was the campaign manager for the Governor 
here in Kansas City ? 

Mr. Hendren. Mr. Milligan. 

The Chairman. That is the man later put on the police commission ? 

Mr. Hendren. That is correct, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know whether Binaggio's support was solic- 
ited or not, whether or not any agreements were made with him for 
the purpose of getting him to support the Governor ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, I know nothing about that. 

The Chairman. Did you talk with him about it yourself ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever talk with him ? 

Mr. Hendren. I have talked to him a few times ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Where? 

Mr. Hendren. I think I ran into him a couple of times here in 
Kansas City. We had our headquarters in the Phillips Hotel. That 
is about the only conversations I ever had with the man. 

The Chairman. Was there any understanding or any agreement 
reached that in view of his support and what not, he was to have a 
substantial say-so about the handling of things on behalf of the Gov- 
ernor here in Kansas City ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not that I ever knew of, Senator. I never heard 
any such conversation take place. 

The Chairman. He was to have considerable direction about the 
operation of the police department? 

Mr. Hendren. I never knew anything about that. In other words, 
no conversations of that type ever took place around me. 

The Chairman. Do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. Was the $2,000 contributed by Molasky paid 
directly to you ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Who handed it to you ? 

Mr. Hendren. I am not certain, sir, whether it was Molasky or 
Shenker. They were both there at the time. 

Mr. Halley. They were both present ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Where did this take place ? 

Mr. Hendren. At the Mayf air Hotel in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. In a room upstairs? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Whose room was it ? 

Mr, Hendren. My room. 



282 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. And at that time, was something said about Shenker's 
aspiration to become police commissioner ? 

Mr. Hendren, I don't remember anything said about himself. I 
think it was said that they would like to submit some names for con- 
sideration as the Jewish member of the board. 

Mr. Halley. Of the police board ? 

Mr. Hendren. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. That $2,000 was cash, is that correct? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Haijley. You took it back to Jefferson City ? 

Mr. Hendren, That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. And handed it to Mr. Edlund? 

Mr. Hendren. Mr. Kagland. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Ragland. To what campaign did you tell him to 
credit it ? 

Mr. Hendren. I told him to hold the money until I found some 
place where it could be used. 

Mr. Halley. Then it was held in suspense, and it could be turned 
either into the State committee's fund or into the Governor's campaign 
fund ? 

Mr. Hendren. The money was actually sent down to Jasper County 
to be used in the Jasper County campaign, $1,700 of the money. 

Mr. Halley. At that point, w ould it be reported in Jasper County ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. You see, this came out when Mr. Molasky 
talked about it in Washington, and I explained the matter when I was 
asked about it. It is reported in the Jasper County committee's cam- 
paign contribution as a campaign contribution from the State com- 
mittee, as I understand it from the press. I haven't seen the 

Mr. Halley. But the State committee never received it as income? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. So there would be an error some place. 

Mr. Hendren. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. At least, let's say a discrepancy exists on the present 
records, is that right? 

Mr. Hendren. As far as that campaign contribution was concerned, 
I never considered it part of the State committee campaign fund. 
These county chairmen were always in, wanting money for the cam- 
paign, and the county chairman came in from that county and told 
Mr. Eagland, and he gave liim $1,700 of that money, which they took 
back and spent on the campaign in Jasper County. 

Mr. Halley. In addition to the duties as State Democratic chair- 
man, you put a lot of work into the campaign, did you not? 

Mr. Hendren. What do you mean, Mr. Halley? 

Mr. Halley. You managed the campaign for the Governor, did 
you not ? 

JNIr. Hendren. I managed that campaign, the primary ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Haixey. Did you incur a number of personal expenses? 

Mr. Hendren. Oh, ves. I was out almost all the time in the summer 
of 194S and the fall of 1948. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get the money to defray those expenses ? 

Ml". Hendren. Tlie money came up — Mr. Ragland gave me some of • 
it out of the campaign fund. 

Mr. Halley. He reported giving you only $500. 

Mr. Hendren. That is right. 



ORGANIZED CRIME. IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 283 

Mr. Halle Y. Where did you get the rest of it ? 

Mr. Hendren. Out of this cash money that he had, on his records 
you will notice there is, I think, $400 or $500 that he gave me out of 
that money. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get whatever other moneys you spent ? 

Mr. Hendrex. That is about all I spent. 

Mr. Halley. Would you say that your total cash expenditures dur- 
ing the primary campaign for Governor in 1948 were not in excess 
of $1,000 ? 

Mr. Hendren. In the primary campaign ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Hendren. I don't think they were. 

Mr. Halley. You don't think they were? 

Mr. Hendren. No. 

Mr. Halley. Would you say that your total expenses during the 
general election campaign 

Mr. Hendren. I don't think they were that much in the primary 
campaign. I think Mr. Ragland gave me $300 in the primary 
campaign. 

Mr. Halley. $300? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And that is all you spent during all that time ? 

Mr. Hendren. That was from about June or July, all the expense 
I had was when I was out on campaign trips. I was in headquarters 
an awful lot of the time. 

Mr. Halley. During the general election campaign, what were 
your expenses ? 

Mr. Hendren. I would say they ran in the neighborhood of $1,000, 
maybe a little bit more, maybe a little bit less. 

Mr. Halley. Would you say they could not possibly have been over 
$1,500? 

Mr. Hendren. I don't believe they were. I didn't keep any accurate 
record of it, anj^ accurate account of it. 

Mr. Halley. You say that you don't think it could possibly be over, 
say, $2,000, in any event? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. You see, our campaign started in the 
middle of September and lasted until about the election in November. 

Mr. Halley. Were a lot of your own expenses paid by other people ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not very many that I know of. 

Mr. Halley. Did J. K. (Pat) Noonan pay some of the expenses of 
your campaign ? 

Mr. Hendren. My campaign? My personal expenses ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Hendren. No, he never did. 

Mr. Halley. Did he work for you ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, he never worked for me. 

Mr. Halley. Was he active in the campaign? 

Mr. Hendren. He was active in the primary campaign, but I don't 
know that he was particularly active in the general election. 

Mr. Halley. Did he work for Smith in the primary? 

]\Ir. Hendren. He was for Governor Smith in the primary, yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Who laid out the money that was dispensed for radio 
time and billboard advertising and the other general expenses ? Was 
that paid out by the State committee ? 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 19 



284 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hendren. Out of the State committee funds. 

Mr. Halley. That will all show ? 

Mr. Hendren. That will show in the treasurer's accounts ; yes, sir. 
That was the part of the State committee bore. I don't know what 
they spent around the cities for radio time and billboards and things 
of that nature. 

JNIr. Halley. To recapitulate, you received from the State commit- 
tee a total of $800 ? 

Mr. Hjendren. I just couldn't give you the exact figures, Mr. 
Halley. 

Mr. Halley. Something under $1,000? 

Mr. Hendren. It was around $1,000. 

Mr. Halley. And your total expenses did not exceed, you say, 
$1,500, you believe? 

Mr. Hendren. Well, I don't believe they did. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Let me ask, what is Pat Noonan's relationship with 
the Governor and the State administration? 

Mr. Hendren. Senator, I don't know of any relationship that he 
has. 

The Chairman. Wliat does he do ? Is he a lawyer? 

Mr. Hendren. No, he isn't a lawyer. 

The Chairman. Is he some sort of trouble-shooter for the Governor ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not that I ever knew of. 

The Chairman. What does he do ? 

Mr. Hendren. I don't know that, Senator. 

The Chairman. How does he make a living? 

Mr. Hendren. I don't know. I wondered that, myself. 

The Chairman. Where does he live ? 

Mr. Hendren. He has an apartment in Jefferson City. I think his 
family lives here in Kansas City. 

The Chairman. Is there any other information you want to give 
the committee that you think would be helpful to us ? 

Mr. Hendren. Not a thing. Senator. Anything I can tell you that 
you want to ask me, I am liere available. 

The Chairman. We appreciate your appearance and j^our willing- 
ness to help us, Mr. Hendren. 

Mr. Hendren. Could I be 

The Chairman. How much time do you spend — are you paid any 
salary for your being chairman of the Democratic committee ? 

Mr. Hendren. No, sir. 

The Chairman. It is just an honorary position? 

IMr. Hendren. Yes ; and a dubious honor, I expect. 

The Chairman. You practice law in Jefferson City ? 

Mr. Hendren. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, unless there is something you want to 
add • 

Mr. Hendren. May I be excused. Senator? 

The Chairman. You may be excused, and if we need you further 
we will let you know by telephone. 

Mr. Hendren. I may go back to Jefferson City. 

The Chairman. Thank you. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

(Brief recess.) 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COIMMERCE 285 

The Chairman. Call Mr. Gizzo. 

Mr. Gizzo, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give 
this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Gizzo. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY R. GIZZO, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Hallet. What is your full name ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Anthony R. Gizzo. 

Mr. Hallet. Where do you reside? 

Mr. Gizzo. 1004 West Sixty-seventh Street. 

Mr. Hallet. Kansas City ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. "V\'liat is your business ? 

Mr. Gizzo. At the present time I don't have a business. . 

Mr. Hallet. What was your last business? 

Mr. Gizzo. The last business ? Well, I was booking- 



The Chairman. Let's talk out and get this testimony over with as 
soon as we can. You just tell us very forthrightly all about this and 
we will get along a whole lot better. 

Mr. Gizzo. I was booking football, baseball, and basketball. 

Mr. Hallet. At the Coates House ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. What was the Coates House, a place where you booked 
sporting events? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. You had a partner there named Binaggio? 

Mr. Gizzo. Binaggio, yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. What interest did each of you have in Coates House ? 

Mr. Gizzo. He had 25 percent and I had 25 percent. 

Mr. Hallet. Who had the other 50 percent ? 

Mr. Gizzo. A fellow named Sam Butler, Mel Levitt, and Joe Danzo. 

Mr. Hallet. During what period did you have an interest in 
Coates House? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think we opened it up in, I think it was either 1946 or 
1947. I can't be sure of that. 

Mr. Hallet. Until when did it run? 

Mr. Gizzo. It ran until about 4 months ago. 

Mr. Hallet. Where did you get your odds on sporting events ? Who 
supplied them? 

Mr. Gizzo. All the sporting events? 

Mr. Hallet. Yes. For a football game, for instance, who would 
fix your odds? 

Mr. Gizzo. We would call different people around the country. 

Mr. Hallet. Who would you call? 

Mr. Gizzo. Minneapolis. 

Mr. Hallet. Who would you call in Minneapolis? 

Mr. Gizzo. I couldn't tell you, sir, who we would call. There would 
be clerks in there, five or six of them. 

Mr. Hallet. Would you ever call? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, I never did call. 

Mr. Halle. What was your connection with Coates House? What 
function did you perform? 



286 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Gizzo. I helped around a little. 
Mr. Halley. How? 

Mr. Gizzo. I am a bidder. I usually bid on the football games. 
Mr. Halley. Did you help operate it? 
Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Who was the accountant for Coates House? 
Mr. Gizzo. I think it was Rosenblum or Rosenbaum, or something 
like that. 

Mr. Halley. What is the full name ? 
Mr. Gizzo. They called him Ginger. I couldn't tell you. 
Mr. Halley. Ginger Rosenbaum or Rosenblum? 
Mr. Gizzo. Something like that. 
Mr. Halley. Where are they located? 
Mr. Gizzo. In the Board of Trade Building. 
Mr. Halley. Here in Kansas City? 
Mr. Gizzo. That is right, sir. 
Mr. Halley. What other businesses have you had? 
Mr. Gizzo. I was in the beer business. 
Mr. Halley. What beer company? 
Mr. Gizzo. The Canadian Ace Co. 
Mr. Halley. When were you in Canadian Acel 
Mr. Gizzo. I was there from, I think, 1940 to 1946, I think, 1945. 
Mr. Halley. You were associated with Greenberg there ? 
Mr. Gizzo. No. I wasn't associated with Greenberg. 
Mr. Halley. Who were you associated with? 
Mr. Gizzo. I was working there. 
Mr. Halley. Who were you working for ? 
Mr. Gizzo. Mr. Figgebust. 

Mr. Halley. In what city did you work for Canadian Ace ? 
Mr. Gizzo. Kansas City, Mo. 
Mr. Halley. Are you a native of Kansas City ? 
Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 
Mr. Halley. Where were you born? 
Mr. Gizzo. In New York City. 
Mr. Halley. New York City? 
Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When did you come to Kansas City ? 
Mr. Gizzo. I came here, I think about 37 years ago. 
Mr. Halley. Have you lived here ever since ? 
Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What other businesses have you been in ? 
Mr. Gizzo. Other businesses since I have been in Kansas City ? 
Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. Thinking back, I was doing a little gambling quite a 
long time. 

Mr. Halley. Have you operated books ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Horse books ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. In Kansas City? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And elsewhere ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 287 

INIr. Hallet. Were you ever in Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Were you arrested in Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo, No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. In 1944? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Weren't you arrested with Charles Fischetti in 1945 ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. That was in Kansas City, wasn't it ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I wasn't arrested in Kansas City, either. 

Mr. Hallet. Weren't you arrested witli Fischetti in Kansas City 
in 1944? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. Hallet. You do know Charles Fischetti ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir ; very well. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you know Tony Accardo ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you know Jake Guzik ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Hallet. You know them all quite well ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Not all of them quite well. I know those three quite well. 

]Mr. Hallet. I meant tliose three. 

Mr. Gizzo. I beg your pardon ? 

JNIr. Hallet. You know those three quite well ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr, White. Murray Humphreys ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir ; I know him. 

Mr. Hallet. Harry Russell ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Harry Russell ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Pierce ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Pierce; yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. In fact, you were in Miami with Accardo this winter, 
weren't you ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I met him down there. 

Mr. Hallet. This winter ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think it was in February. 

Mr. Hallet. "VA^iere did you stay in Miami ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think it was at the Robert Richter Hotel. 

Mr. White. Do you know "Bottles" Capone ? 

Mr. Gizzo. "Bottles" Capone ? No, sir. 

Mr. White. Ralph Capone ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. I have seen Mimie. 

Mr. White. Do you know Mimie ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Mimie, I have met him several times in the Trade Winds 
at Chicago when I would go in there to eat. 

Mr. White. Have you ever been up to the lake in Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Gizzo. AVliat lake is that ? 

Mr. White. Home Place. 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. VTho were you with at the Robert Richter ? 

Mr. Gizzo. "Wlio was I with ? 

Mr. Hallet. Yes ; who did you stay with ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I stayed with a fellow f rom^ — I forget his name, they call 
him the colonel. His name is — he is from Columbus, Ga. 



288 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

]Mr. Halley. Do you know Abe Allenberg, the manager of the 
Robert Richter? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

IVIr. Halley. How did you happen to go there ? 

Mr. Gizzo. This fellow here had reservations. 

Mr. Halley. You mean you roomed with him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You don't remember his name ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I will tell you his name in a minute. 

Mr. Halley. Take your time. 

Mr. Gizzo. We called him the colonel. 

Mr. Halt^ey. Take your time and think about it. 

Mr. Gizzo. I think it is Donald — I know his first name is Donald. 
He has the Seagrams V. O. in Columbus, Ga. 

Mr. Halley. Seagrams? You mean he is the agent for Seagrams? 

Mr. Gizzo. He has the distributorship for Seagrams V. O. 

Mr. HALiiEY. Have you been attempting to get the Seagrams dis- 
tributorship here ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. sir. 

Mr. Halley. Or the Schenley distributorship ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Or any other liquor distributorship ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. HxVLley. Have you had any negotiations on that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You were convicted, were you not, for violation of 
the Narcotics Act? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir; about 26 or 27 years ago. 

Mr. Halley. Where were you convicted ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Kansas City; here. 

Mr. Halley. You served time? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever convicted on any other occasion? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hali.ey. Do you know Balestrere ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Halley. What business is Balestrere in ? 

Mr. Gizzo. As far as I know, he has a liquor store down at 
Eighteenth and Forest. 

Mr. Halley. Does he have any other business? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is about all I know of. 

Mr. Halley. He is rather widely known as a prominent man in 
the Mafia, isn't he ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is what you hear. 

Mr. Halley. What do you hear ? 

Mr. Gizzo. The same thing that you just said there. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever talked to Balestrere about it? 

Mr. Gizzo. About what ? 

Mr. Halley. About his being m the Mafia. 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

]\fr. Halley. Though you have heard it? 

Mr. Gizzo. I have heard it ; yes. 

]\Ir. Halley. Are you a member of the Mafia ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 289 

Mr. Haixey. You know you are under oath. 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you now belong to the Mafia ? 

Mr. Gizzo. What is the Mafia '^ I don't even know what the 
Mafia is. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you know what the Unione Siciliano is? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you belong to any group ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't belong to any group but myself. 

Mr. Hallet. I will ask the question another way. Do you belong 
to any group which has been known or termed the "Mafia"? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you ever belong to any such gi'oup ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I never did. I never will. 

Mr. Hallet. You are sure of that? 

Mr. Gizzo. Positive; yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Have you ever belonged to the Unione Siciliano ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. My folks are Naples. 

Mr. Hallet. You never belonged? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. You are sure of it? 

Mr. Gizzo. Positive. 

jNIr. Hallet. Do you know what the Unione Siciliano is? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir ; I don't know what it is. 

Mr. Hallet. If you don't know, why do you make the point that 
your folks are Naples? 

Mr. Gizzo. They claim they are Sicilians, you read in the newspaper. 
Sicilians and Naples are different towns; different, what you call 
them, dialects. 

Mr. Hallet. "VVlien did you first meet Charley Binaggio ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I have known him since he was a boy. 

Mr. Hallet. Here in Kansas City? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Were you ever in any other business with Binaggio 
besides the Coates House? 

]Mr. Gizzo. We were in several businesses. I think we booked some 
horses together. 

Mr. Hallet. When did you do that, and where ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think it was in 1947. 

Mr. Hallet. Before you went into the Coates House? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think so. 

Mr. Hallet. And you operated in Kansas City with him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you have any other businesses with Binaggio ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you make any contribution to the campaign, to 
any campaign in 1948? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think we gave $200, I think, to the club out there. 

Mr. Hallet. Wlio gave $200? 

Mr. Gizzo. Our Coates House. 

Mr. Hallet. And to what club did you give it? 

Mr. Gizzo. That Fifteenth Street Club. 

IMr. Hallet. Are you a member of the club ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 



290 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Did you make any otlier contribution? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you personally? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did your wife make any other contribution? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Or any member of your family ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Nobody at all. 

Mr. White. Do you know Mickey Cohen ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you ever talk to him on the telephone ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Whiit:. Did you know that in a recent compilation of his tele- 
phone numbers, you are on his telephone list ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I was on his telephone list ? 

Mr. Whii^. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Gizzo. Mr. White, I don't know how I would get on his tele- 
phone list. I don't know the man when I see him. 

Mr. White. Did the police ever ask you about that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you have any interest in wire service ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you ever have ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know any people connected with the wire serv- 
ice in Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo. In Chicago ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. No; I don't. 

Mr. White. Do you know anyone connected w4th Continental News 
Service or Continental Press in Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; I don't. 

Mr. White. You don't know anybody who is connected with them 
in any way, shape, or form ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. White. Within a month prior to the death of Binaggio, did 
you ever say to anybody that Bmaggio was getting too big for liis 
pants and that he might have to be taken care of ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No; I never did. 

Mr. White. Did you ever say anything that could be construed as 
having the same meaning as that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir ; I never did, Mr. Wliite. 

Mr. White. As a matter of fact, did you think that Binaggio was 
getting a little too important politically ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; I didn't think — in fact, to tell you the truth, I never 
paid any attention to it. I was no politician. 

Mr. White. Was Binaggio considered pretty much the head man 
around here in gambling circles prior to his death ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir ; that is right. 

Mr. Wiirra. Would you say that you are considered pretty much 
the head man in gambling circles around here now ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Right now? 



ORGANIZED CRIME; IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 291 

Mr. White. Well, granted that not much gambling is going on, but 
would you consider that you are the dominant figure in those circles 
today ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Today? I don't know where they get that stuff at. 

Mr. White. Who do you think has replaced Binaggio as the dom- 
inant figure among gamblers in this area ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is hard to say. 

Mr. White. Give me a guess as to who you think. 

Mr. Gizzo. In the first place, Mr. White, there is no gambling around 
here, and I don't think there will be any gambling for quite a while, and 
I don't think anybody even dreams about any gambling around here. 

Mr. Halley. Wliy not? 

Mr. Gizzo. Well 

Mr. Halley. What has changed things ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I guess they change everything around here, I guess. 

Mr. Halley. Since when? 

Mr. Gizzo. Since the police shake-up and everything else. 

Mr. Halley. You think there won't be any more gambling here ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't think so, in my opinion. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know William H. Johnson, the fellow up at 
the Sportsman Park track ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know Johnny Patton ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear of him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes ; I have heard of him, but I don't know him. 

Mr. Halley. Never met him? 

Mr. Gizzo. Never met him. I might have met him. You see, I had 
a bunch of race horses between the years of 1935 and about 1938. 

Mr. Halley. You must have known Eddie O'Hare, then. 

Mr. Gizzo. Eddie O'Hare? No; I didn't know him. 

Mr. Halley. You have heard of him, too ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I have heard of him. 

Mr. Halley. But never met him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; I never met him. 

Mr. White. Do you know James Ragen who used to live in Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo. James Eagen? 

Mr. White. The man who was knocked off there. 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. Halley. Have you any legitimate businesses ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Legitimate businesses? How can I get into legitimate 
businesses ? 

Mr. Halley. You worked for Canadian Ace. That is a legitimate 
business. 

Mr. Gizzo. I was trying to get a license in my name there. I have 
been in trouble since I was a boy. They wouldn't give me a license. 

Mr. Halley. There are legitimate businesses in which you don't 
need a license. 

Mr. Gizzo. We were in the beer business, and I had a good chance 
•of getting in a legitimate business there, and was building up a nice 
business, and went to apply for a license and I was turned down for it. 

Mr. Halley. Who gave you the job with Canadian Ace? 

Mr. Gizzo. Mr. Figgebust. 

Mr. Halley. How did you meet him ? 



292 ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Gizzo. He came down here from Greenberg, Chicago. 

Mr. Halley. Who told you about Figgebust — how did you make 
the contact to get that job ? 

Mr. Gizzo. We had the Schlitz agency, had a little stock in it. 

Mr. Halley. Who had that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. There was a bunch of people had it, 35. 

Mr. Halley. Were you one of them? There is a legitimate busi- 
ness. And you are shy about these things. 

Mr. Gizzo. I am not shy about it. I am just trying to tell you how 
I got contact with this fellow Figgebust. He came down to run the 
business. 

Mr. Halley. The Schlitz agency ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You had that in what year ? 

Mr, Gizzo. I think that was all the way from 1937 to about 1942. 

Mr. Halley. You had the Schlitz agency in Kansas City ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. For any other territory, too ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Just Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio were the boys in on that? 

Mr. Gizzo. There was a bunch of stockholders. 

Mr. Halley. Who? 

Mr. Gizzo. There was I, and I think Carolla. 

Mr. Halley. Is that Mike Carolla ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; Charley Carolla. I don't know ; there must have 
been 20 stockliolders. 

Mr. Halley. Was Binaggio in that? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't think so ; no. 

Mr. Halley. Let's have a few more. 

Mr. Gizzo. Well, there was 

Mr. Halley. Gargotta? 

Mr. Gizzo. Gargotta. Lacoco. 

Mr. Halley. Spitz? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. I think 

Mr. Halley. Balestrere? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; I don't think he was. 

Mr. Halley. Freedlander? 

Mr. Gizzo. No; Freedlander wasn't in it. You see, the way they 
had this, they had a soda pop place here, called the Glendale Soda, 
and the stock of the beer would go with whatever stock you had in 
the soda business. 

Mr. Halley. You were also in the Glendale Soda business ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. You have had a lot of legitimate businesses. You 
have been holding out on us. The same stockholders were in the 
Glendale Soda Pop? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Is that still in existence? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When did that go out of existence? 

Mr. Gizzo. That went out of existence, I guess, 1939, or 1940. 

Mr. Halley. What other legitimate businesses did you have ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is about all. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COIMMERCE 293 

Mr. Hallet. Let's get back to your meeting with a representative 
of Greenberg. You say lie came down here. What is his name again ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Figgebust. 

Mr. Hallet. He came down here in some way in connection with 
your Schlitz beer ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No; he came down here as representative of Canadian 
Ace beer. 

Mr. Hallet. Then what happened ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Here is what happened. The story was, in 1939 Charley 
Carolla got in trouble here, in 1939, and they needed somebody to run 
the plant down there. 

Mr. Hallet. Was Carolla at that time running the soda pop and 
the beer business ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. I think a fellow by the name of Duke was running 
the soda-pop business. 

Mr. Hallet. Go ahead. 

Mr. Gizzo. Carolla, I think or his brothers, were running the beer 
place. He got in trouble, and that is how they sent Figgebust down 
there. Greenberg sent Figgebust down here to take over. 

Mr. Hallet. Carolla go in what kind of trouble? 

Mr. Gizzo. He got in trouble on income tax. 

Mr. Hallet. He went to jail? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hallet. Greenberg sent Figgebust down ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. 

Mr. Hallet. To take over? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know whether he sent him down. I don't know 
whether Figgebust bought the place — I think the stockholders sold 
out, all the stockholders, I think in 1940. 

Mr. Hallet. To Figgebust? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Hallet. He was working for Greenberg? 

Mr. Gizzo^ I don't know that. I don't know whether he was 
working for him or whether the place belonged to him. 

Mr. Hallet. From then on he handled Canadian Ace ? 

Mr. Gizzo. From then on he had Schlitz and Canadian Ace. That 
is when I went to work for him; he called me up and asked if I 
wouldn't help liim out, and I went to work for him. 

Mr. Hallet. What was your job? 

Mr. Gizzo. My job was salesman. 

Mr. Hallet. To whom did you sell this beer ? 

Mr. Gizzo. To all the taverns and grocery stores and every place. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you ever go to Chicago and discuss it with 
Greenberg ? 

Mr. Gizzo. With Greenberg? 

Mr. Hallet. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes; I was in Chicago one time and discussed it with 
Greenberg. 

Mr. Hallet. Was Figgebust there when you went to see 
Greenberg ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. Hallet. What did you go to Cliicago to talk about with 
Greenberg ? 



294 ORGANIZED CRIME IX INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr, Gizzo. I told Greenberg that we were going to lose the Schlitz 
agency on account of Mr. Figg^ebiist, every time anybody wanted to 
buy some beer, he was delivering them Canadian Ace, and we did 
lose the Sclilitz agency. 

Mr. Halley. I don't quite understand how Figgebust appeared 
just Avhen Carolla was sentenced to jail. Was Carolla working for 
Greenberg ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Carolla was a local boy ; wasn't he ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Why did Greenberg, at just that point, send Figge- 
bust down? Perhaps you can clarify that. It is a little confusing 
to me. 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. I think we told him we wanted to sell out, sell 
the stock. 

Mr. Halley. Told whom ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Greenberg. 

Mr. Halley. Then you had known Greenberg before this happened ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes ; I had known Greenberg. 

Mr. Halley. You had met him in Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You told him you wanted to sell out ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Well, he came to Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. What did you do, call Greenberg up and say, "We are 
in trouble, we are losing Carolla"? 

Mr. Gizzo. No; we told him that we wanted to sell out, that we had 
all this trouble, and all the stockholders were hollering. They thought 
we were beating them out of their money. They never got any divi- 
dends or anything. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio was running this Schlitz agencv, vou and 
Carolla? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. Halley. Wlio? 

Mr. Gizzo. The Carolla brothers. 

Mr. Halley. You were pretty active in it one way or another ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I wasn't active. I became active after Figgebust bought 
this place. 

Mr. Halley. You have just said that you called Greenberg and told 
him that the stockholders thought "we were beating them out of their 
money." That must have included you. 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. I was anxious to get my money out, too. 

Mr. Halley. You must have been more than just a stockholder. 
You were different from the fellows who thought they were being 
beat out of their money. 

Mr. Gizzo. I was a stockholder. All the stockholders told me they 
weren't getting any dividends. I called Greenberg up and told him 
about it. I was interested in getting my money out of it, too. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you make all your Chicago connections? 
You know the boys pretty well. How did you get to know them ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know. I have known Charley for 25 years, I 
guess. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I met him in Chicago. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 295 

Mr. Halley. Did you work in Chicago at one time ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you live there at any time ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir ; I never lived in Chicago in my life. 

Mr. Halley. How did you happen to meet Charley Fischetti in 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Gizzo. He has a brother there. 

Mr. Halley. Rocco ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; the other one, Joey, who is quite a fellow with the 
women. I got to running around with him. That is how I met 
Charley ; and Rocco, too. 

Mr. Halley. You were running around with Joe Fischetti ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you get to know Al Capone, too ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. I never knew Al Capone. 

Mr. Halley. Did you get to know any of his brothers ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. None of the family ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. But you did get to know the Fischettis ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Then you met Accardo ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No : I met Accardo when I had the race horses. 

Mr. Halley. AYliere did you run the horses ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Over at Chicago, Miami, California. 

Mr. Halley. AYhen did you get the horses ? 

Mr. Gizzo. In 1935. 

Mr. Halley. That is supposed to be a very expensive hobby. 
Where did you get the money to buy the race horses ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Where did I get the money to buy the race horses ? I 
won it. 

Mr. Halley. How ? 

Mr." Gizzo. Gambling. 

Mr. Halley. You were in the gambling business prior to 1935 ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. When did you sell the race horses ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I sold them in 1937 or 1938. 

Mr. Halley. Who did you sell them to ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't remember now. I sold them to gypsies, they 
call them. 

Mr, Halley. Do you know whether Fischetti is a member of the 
Mafia? 

Mr. Gizzo. I tell you, I don't know what the Mafia is. 

Mr. Halley. You have heard of it, you said. It is a society; is 
that right? 

Mr. Gizzo. All I know about the Mafia is that they had a thing 
happen here in Kansas City one time about 30 years ago. 

Mr. Halley. What was that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Somebody wrote a letter and asked a fellow to put some 
money in a cannon down here at North End. This fellow went down 
to pick the money up, and the police shot him. 

Mr. Halley. Was he a Mafia man ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is all I know about it. I don't know whether he 
was a Mafia man or 



296 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COIVC^IERCE 

Mr. Halley. Why do you associate that incident 30 years ago with 
the Mafia? 

Mr. Gizzo. Why do I associate it with it ? 

Mr. Halley. Why do you bring that up ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is what I always thought it was, that you sent a 
letter through the mail, Black Hand, as they call it, definition of the 
thing. 

Mr. White. Did you ever hear of the term "greenies" ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Greenies ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. What does that mean to you ? 

Mr. Gizzo. It means that they can't talk good English. 

Mr. White. Would you call your friend Balestere a "greenie"? 

Mr. Gizzo. Well, I suppose you might have to call him that. I 
don't know whether you would call him that or not, but I guess he 
would get insulted if you did. 

Mr. White. Would you call the DiGiovanni family "greenies" ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Well, you could. 

Mr. White. Would you call Nicolo Impostato a "greenie"? 

Mr, Gizzo. You would. 

Mr. White. Would you call him that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I wouldn't dare call him anything like that, because I 
wouldn't want to. 

Mr. White. Is Nicolo Impostato a tough fellow? 

Mr. Gizzo. He isn't tough, but I don't like to hurt anybody's 
feelings. 

Mr. White. Do you know a man named Jack Dragna ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, I met him in California. 

Mr. White, Los Angeles, Do you Imow Mo Mo Adamo ? 

Mr. Gizzo, Yes, sir ; he used to be here. 

Mr. White. Do you know Joe Prof aci, Mamamia Oil Co. in Brook- 
lyn ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I know nothing of that. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hear of them ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I never heard of them. 

Mr. Halley. Are you sure? 

Mr. Gizzo. Positive. 

Mr. White. Do you know Tony Milano in Cleveland ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. White. Or in California? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White, Doyouknow the Mangano brothers in Brooklyn? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Joe Bedelli? 

Mr, Gizzo, Joe Bedelli ? The name sounds familiar. 

Mr. AVhite. They call him Joe "B" in New York. 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; I don't think I know him. 

ISIr. White. Do you know Willie Moore ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think I have seen Willie Moore in New York. 

Mr. White, Do you know his brother, Sol ? 

INIr. Gizzo, No ; I don't know his brother. 

Mr. White. Do you know Joe Adonis, Joe "A." 

Mr. Gizzo. I have heard of him. I have seen him. 

Mr, White, Have you met him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I never did meet him. 



ORGANIZED CRIME: IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 297 

Mr. White. AVliere did you see him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. In New York. 

Mr. White. Where in New York ? 

Mr. Gizzo. The race track. 

Mr. White. Do you know a fellow they call Nani, Bastiano Nani ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir ; I do not know him. 

Mr. White. Do you know the LaEocca family in San Francisco? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know Pete Licavoli ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know him. I think I have seen him in Chicago 
once or twice. 

Mr. White. Do you know any of his brothers ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Have you ever been to his ranch in Tucson ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Never. 

Mr. White. Have you been introduced to him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know Joe Massei ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Joe Massei ; I think I met him. 

Mr. White. In Detroit? 

Mr. Gizzo. Florida. 

Mr. Hallet. You saw him last winter, didn't you ? 

Mr, Gizzo. No, I didn't see him last winter. 

Mr. White. Do you know Sam Maceo ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I have heard of him; 

Mr. White. Do you know a man by the name of Dionoso in Trini- 
dad, Colo ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

Mr. White. Do you know the Sica brothers ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know a man named Joe Bonamo ? 

Mr, Gizzo. No, sir ; I don't know him, 

Mr. White. Also known as Joe "Bananas." 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know Santos Traficante from Tampa ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Do you know Red Italiano ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Mr. White, Do you know Paul Ricca from Chicago? 

Mr, Gizzo, Paul' who? 

Mr, White, Ricca. 

Mr, Gizzo. Yes ; I know him. 

Mr. White, Do you know Tom Buflfa from St. Louis ? 

Mr, Gizzo, No, sir, 

Mr, White, The late Tom Buffa, I should say. 

Do you know John Vitale? 

Mr, Gizzo, Yes; I know him. 

Mr. Hallet. One more. Do you know Frank Costello ? 

Mr. Gizzo, Yes, sir. 

Mr, Halley, Where did you meet him? 

Mr, Gizzo. In New Orleans. 

Mr. Hallet. When ? 

Mr, Gizzo. During, I think, 1948, the Sugar Bowl game. 

Mr, Halley. Who was he with ? 



298 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Gizzo. A little fellow, Kastel. 

Mr. Halley. Who else was there ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know. A fellow named Brown. 

Mr. Halley. Brown ? 

]\Ir. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What is Brown's first name ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I really couldn't tell you. 

Mr. White. Tommy Brown, "Nine Finger" Tommy Brown from 
New York? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, no. 

Mr. Halley. The Beverly Club ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Were you at the Beverly Club ? 

Mr, Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. How often did you see Frank Costello while you were 
there ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I saw him, I think, once or twice at the club. 

Mr. Halley. When did you last speak to Frank Costello ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't believe I ever talked to Frank since 1948. 

Mr. Halley. Even by telephone ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you know Sam Carolla in New Orleans ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Sam Carolla ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. I tell you, I met him here. 

Mr. White. With a little fellow who was here ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I met him here through Charley Binaggio. 

Mr. White. With little Frankie Capolla at the time? They were 
together ? 

llr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. White. In connection with all these people whose names I 
have asked you about and whom you say you know, would it be a fair 
statement to say that they are the type of people that you would 
trust in a business transaction ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Would trust ? 

Mr. White. Say in your gambling business. Would you feel that 
you could call up any one of these people and make a bet with them 
and that you would be paid if you won ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Well, I don't think that they do any bookmaking. 

]Mr. White. Suppose they called you up and made a bet with you, 
would you take their word for the fact that they were good for the 
money ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Well, I don't know. One of them there 

Mr. White. Say Tony Accardo called you up. 

Mr. Gizzo. He was in it. That is how I met him. He was in the 
bookmaking business 14 or 15 years ago. 

Mr. White. If he called you, would you trust him for a bet ? 

Mr. Gizzo. If he called me ? 

Mr. White. Yes. 

]\Ir. Gizzo. Yes ; I think I would. 

Mr. White. If you called him, would he trust you ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I suppose he would. 

Mr. White. Most of these other people that we have spoken of, 
there is no question but that you would take their word for a matter 
of money ; is that correct ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME; IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 299 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know. A lot of them I don't know that well. 

Mr. White. What I am trying 

Mr. Gizzo. I will tell you who I would take their word, if you want 
to put it, Mr. White. 

Mr. White. How about Jack Dragna ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know him very well. 

Mr. White. How about Mo Mo Adamo ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know him very well. 

Mr. White. How about Joe Profaci? You said you didn't know 
him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know him. 

Mr. White. How about Willy Moretti ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know liim. 

Mr. White. How about Joe Adonis ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Joe Adonis, I don't think he would ever have occasion 
to call here for a bet. 

Mr. White, Suppose he did ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Suppose he did, and if I would recognize his voice — ^- 
and I don't know his voice — it would be a thing that you couldn't say. 
You know what I mean ? 

Mr. White. Here is what I am trying to get at, Mr. Gizzo : You 
have a wide acquaintance throughout the country with a number of 
outstanding people who are commonly referred to as members of the 
Mafia or the "Greenies" or members of the Unione Siciliano? You 
have a c{uite wide acquaintance around the country with people such 
as I have named, and no doubt others in the same category, who are 
.generally referred to in the newspapers, or loosely, correctly, or incor- 
rectly, whatever the case may be, as members of the Mafia ? 

Mr. Halley. Did you answer the question ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No ; I haven't answered. 

Mr. White. Do you or do you not ? Do you have an acquaintance 
with people of that nature? 

Mr. Gizzo. I couldn't swear that they are members of the Mafia. 

Mr. White. I am not asking you to swear that, Mr. Gizzo. I am 
just asking you if you have an acquaintance with a lot of people who 
are termed ''members of the Mafia'' by the newspapers or otherwise, 
whether or not that is correct ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Mr. White, you have asked me about those people. The 
chances are I know maybe 20,000 other people, maybe, that are up in 
life, too. 

Mr. White. That is right. I am asking you about these particular 
people, who I think you realize have been frequently referred to as 
members of the Mafia. You do know many people of that caliber 
throughout the United States, do you not? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know whether I do. I mentioned the ones I 
know there. If you say they belong to the Mafia, that is news to me. 

Mr. White. You have read about their names in the paper? You 
have read of Jack Dragna out in California? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

Mr. White. And Mo Mo Adamo in the newspapers ? You have read 
of Paul Ricca in the newspapers? You know Tony Accardo. You 
have seen them referred to commonly as members of the Maffia, haven't 
you ? 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 20 



300 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Gizzo. That is right, that is right. 

Mr. White. Do you feel there is a basis of mutual trust and under- 
standing between you and the people that you have said you know 
here, say, Tony Accardo and Joe Adonis, so that you could do business 
wdth each other and trust each other throughout the United States? 

Mr. Gizzo. I have never had occasion to do any business with them. 
I wouldn't say that. I have never had one opportunity to do any 
business with any of them. All I know is that I know them and I 
see them when — race horses, and stuff like that. But I never had 
any dealings with them. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever in Cleveland ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I was in Cleveland once. 

Mr. Halley. When ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think it was during the war when the Navy and Army 
played there. I stayed overnight. I think it was on a Saturday. 
We left Friday and got there Saturday, and left, I think, Sunday 
morning. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gizzo, may I ask you two or three questions? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

The Chairman. This Coates House that you operated, are you still 
operating that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir ; it is closed. 

The Chairman. That was just you and Charley Binaggio; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. When this trouble came up, I think Charley Bi- 
naggio cut out of it altogether. I think it was late in 1949. 

The Chairman. That was a gambling j^lace and a horse wire? 

Mr. Gizzo. No horse wire at all. 

The Chairman. How much was the take per month from that place? 
How much did you make out of it a month ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I couldn't tell you a month. Some months — I don't 
know. I could tell you the year. 

The Chairman. By the vear, then. 

Mr. Gizzo. About $100,0b() a year. 

The Chair^ian. Net profit ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Net profit after expenses were paid. 

The Chairman. What interest in it did you have? 

Mr. Gizzo. I had 25 percent. 

The Chairman. Who were the other three ? 

Mr. Gizzo. You mean in the Coates House ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. There was Charley Binaggio was one, Sammy Butler, 
and Joe Danzo. 

The Chairman. Where did that ojoerate? 

Mr. Gizzo. 1009 Broadway. 

The CHAHtMAN. That is Tenth and Broadway ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that in the city of Kansas City ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. When did it finally close ? 

Mr. Gizzo. It closed, I would say, about 2i/^ or 3 months ago. 

The Chairman, Did you operate it — were you there all the time, 
most of the time, seeing about it ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 301 

Mr. Gizzo. No. During the operation of the Coates House, I prac- 
tically wasn't there at all. 

The Chairman. How did you get by the police ? 

Mr. Gizzo. We had a cigar store there. 

The Chairman. Didn't the police know you were operating? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. They knew, but they could never catch us. 

The Chairman. Did you pay them off ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. 

The Chairman. Contribute to their fund? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Why could they not catch you? Anybody could 
come in, could they not? 

Mr. Gizzo. We knew our customers. Nobody could make a bet with 
us unless we knew them. 

The Chairman. At that same time, what else were you operating? 
Did you have an interest in the Last Chance ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir; I never had nothing to do with the Last Chance. 

The Chairman. What other operation did you have ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That is the only operation I was operating. 

The Chairman. Did you own any interest in the wire service? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. How about some of these gambling places up at 
Council Bluffs and somewhere else? 

Mr. Gizzo. I never had anything to do with it at all. 

The Chairman. What other enterprises did you have with Charley 
Binaggio ? 

Mr. Gizzo. That w^as the only enterprise that Charley Binaggio was 
in with me. 

The Chairman. In this beer business, Mr. Figgebust sent you 
$300,000 worth of things on credit down here at one time, did he not? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. That is a different deal altogether. 

The Chairman. What was that deal ? 

Mr. Gizzo. We got in the whisky business. 

The Chairman. Yes, and who did you deal with in the whisky 
business? 

Mr. Gizzo. Mr. Grosscurth. 

The Chairman. What company was that? 

Mr. Gizzo. He had a distillery, the Lawrence Distillery Co. 

The Chairman. Where? 

Mr. Gizzo. Lawrenceburg, Ky. 

The Chairman. Wliere did you meet Mr. Grosscurth ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I met him through Mr. Chet Demayo here. 

The Chairman. Did you form a company to handle his line here ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir ; we formed a company. 

The Chairman. You and who else? 

Mr. Gizzo. Me and Mr. Walton. 

The Chairman. Nobody else in it except you two ? 

]Mr. Gizzo. Well, his wife. I couldn't get a license, so I worked on 
commission. 

The Chairman. That was a wholesale company? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How big a company was it you formed ? 

Mr. Gizzo. It wasn't a very large company. 



302 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. A small company, was it not? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. 

The Chairman. $10,000 or $15,000? 

Mr. Gizzo. Something like that. 

The Chairman. He shipped you $300,000 worth of liquor on credit, 
did he not? 

Mr. Gizzo. He didn't ship us $300,000 worth of liquor at one time 
on credit. 

The Chairman. I Imow, but you owed him that much on what you 
bought ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes. He had security, though. 

The Chairman. Wliat security did he have ? 

Mr. Gizzo. He had some warehouse receipts that we had some bulk 
whisky. 

The Chairman. Did you not leave him holding the bag with a 
considerable amount of it? 

Mr. Gizzo. The way it was, he sold me some whisky, I think about 
5,000 or 6,000 or 7,000 cases of whisky, at $67 a case, and I thought 
it was a little too high. We got stuck with it. So we had to sell it 
for $50 or $52 or $55. In fact, I owe him $123,000 right now on 
account — I say I owe him because I stood good for the whisky. 

The Chairman. You mean the company owes it ? 

Mr. Gizzo. The company owes it. 

The Chairman. Or do you personally owe it ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Practically, you would say the company owes him, but 
Mr. Walton doesn't have anything. 

The Chairman. Is the company still operating? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you going to pay him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. I am going to make a settlement with him. 
In fact, I wrote him a letter just the other day. 

The Chairman. What are you worth now, Mr. Gizzo? 

Mr. Gizzo. How much am I worth ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know. 

The Chairman. What would you estimate your worth to be, half a 
million dollars? 

Mr. Gizzo. Oh, no. I wish I was. 

The Chairman. $200,000? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. What stocks and bonds do you own ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't own any stocks and bonds. 

The Chairman. Do you own anything on the big exchange ? 

Mr. Gizzo, No, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever deal in stocks on the exchange? 

Mr. Gizzo, One time I had some stocks. 

The Chairman. When was that ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I think that was in 1938. 

The Chairman. Just to buy whatever you thought was going to be 
worth while ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I bought one stock, Lonsdale Oil Co. 

The Chairman. Did you operate in Chicago or have any business 
there ? 

Mr. Gizzo. I never did. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 303 

The Chairman. I still do not understand. You came down here 
irom New York. How did 3^ou happen to get to know these Chicago 
fellows so well, Fischetti and the others? 

Mr. Gizzo. I told you that I met Joey, his brother, in North Chicago. 
We used to go cabareting around there. That is how I got acquainted 
■with him. 

The Chairman. You fellows in the gambling business sort of have 
a knowledge about where one another hang out and get to know one 
another when you go to their town? 

]\Ir. Gizzo. When you go to the Chez F'aree, you practically see 
everybody there. It is like coming here, you go down to Eddie's or one 
of these places around here. 

The Chairman. It is sort of understood between you what place 
3'ou can go to in order to get in touch with somebody else ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, that isn't the case. They all go there on account of 
its being a fine cafe, like fine shows and fine food. 

The Chairman. They have good shows and good food at the Black- 
stone or the Stevens, but you do not go there? 

Mr. Gizzo. Sometimes we go there. 

The Chairman. Do you know Frank Erickson? 

Mr. Gizzo. Frank Erickson ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. I think I met him one time. 

The Chairman. Did you ever do any lay-off business with him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Oh, it has been a long time ago. 

The Chairman. AVhen was the last time you have been in the horse 
race business, I mean in the bookie business ? 

Mr. Gizzo. In the bookie business? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. I think it was in 1947. 

The Chairman. Who were you in that with? 

Mr. Gizzo. By myself. 

The Chairman. Where did you operate ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Over in North Kansas City. 

The Chairman. North Kansas City? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that in Missouri ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you ever operate in Kansas City, Kans, ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. During that time, you did some lay-off betting with 
Frank Erickson ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, I never bet Frank Erickson myself. There is a 
fellow in town named Dread Finnell. 

Tlie Chairman. He takes lay-off bets? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know these people who operate the wire 
service here, or did operate it ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, I don't. I know of them. 

The Chairman. Spitz ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Spitz and Simon. 

The Chairman. Klein? 

Mr. Gizzo. Klein, ves. I know them. 



304 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Tlie Chairman. Did you get service from tliem? 

Mr. Gizzo. I never had any service. 

The Chairman. "Wlien yon were operating a bookie place 

Mr. Gizzo. I was in North Kansas City in somebody else's place. I 
bet. I don't book. 

The Chairman. You are a bettor? 

Mv. Gizzo. I am a bettor. 

The Chairman. Did you usually win betting on horses? 

Mr. Gizzo. Sometimes in the summertime you do. 

The Chairman. Are you in touch with Frank Capolla ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Am I in touch with Frank Capolla ? 

The Chairman. Yes. Do you correspond with him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. He is in Mexico, is he not ? 

Mr. Gizzo. The last time I heard of him. 

The Chairman. Or Charley Carolla ? Are you in touch with him ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Have you seen them since they left here ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

Tlie Chairman. Wlio is the narcotics ring here in Kansas City now? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't think there is any narcotics ring. 

The Chairman. Are you in narcotics? 

Mr. Gizzo. I should say not. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr. Gizzo. I should say not. 

The Chairman. When did you give that up ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Wlien did I give that up ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Gizzo. When I was a kid. 

The Chairman. That was 1941 that you were convicted of nar- 
cotics ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Not '41. 

The Chairman. Wlien was it? 

Mr. Gizzo. It was about 1921 or '22, 1 would say. 

The Chairman. 1923 and also '24, was it not? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, just once. 

The Chairman. You were arrested one time before and charged 
with it, and you got out on that occasion? 

Mr. Gizzo. No. I went up and did that time. That is the only time. 

The Chairman. You never fooled with narcotics since then? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir, I never have. 

The Chairman. Is there a narcotics ring operating here? 

Mr. Gizzo. I don't know. Do you want me to tell a little story ? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

The Chairman. Back on the record. 

You have a fairly new Cadillac automobile? 

Mr. Gizzo. I beg your pardon ? 

The Chairman. Do you have a Cadillac automobile ? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir. 

The Chairiman. Do you know Savona Simone down in Mexico, Mo. ? 
Is that liis name, Savona Simone? 

Mr. Gizzo. In Mexico, Mo. ? 

]\fr. Wilson. The same as ''Highway" Simone, I think. 

Mr. Gizzo. He lives here. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 305 

The Chairmak. Is he a friend of yours, an associate of yours? 

Mr. Gizzo. I know him; yes. He lives here. He doesn't live in 
Mexico, Mo. 

The Chairman. I think that is all I have. 

Is there anything else ? 

Mr. Halley. That ]s all, Mr. Gizzo. 

The Chairman. Wait just a minute, Mr. Gizzo, You said the 
Coates House had closed up ? 

Mr. Gizzo. The Coates House closed up — that is what I was trying 
to tell you — in 1949, when this trouble came along, and we opened it 
up about 3 weeks later. 

The Chairman. Under the Gizzo News Co.? 

Mr. Gizzo. Yes, sir; the Gizzo News Co. We operated it part of 
1949 and 1950. 

The Chairman. When did you close it up last? 

Mr. Gizzo. The Gizzo News Co. — about 2 or 3 months ago. 

The Chairman. Is it operating now ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Is the cigar store still operating ? 

Mr. Gizzo. No; we moved that. We gave up the cigar store. 

The Chairman. You moved out or just moved somewhere else? 

Mr. Gizzo. We moved out. We are out of business altogether. 

The Chairman. All right. 

If we need you any more, we will call you, Mr. Gizzo. 

(Witness excused.) 

The Chairman. Mr. Edlund and Mr. Ragland, do you and each of 
you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give this committee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Ragland. I do. 

Mr. Edlund. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF RAYMOND A. EDLUND, TREASURER, DEMOCRATIC 
STATE COMMITTEE, KANSAS CITY, MO., AND B. E. RAGLAND, 
ASSISTANT TREASURER, DEMOCRATIC STATE COMMITTEE, 
JEFFERSON CITY, MO. 

Mr. Halley. You are Mr. Edlund? 

Mr. Edlund. I am Edlund. 

Mr. Halley. Suppose I address my questions in the first instance 
to you, Mr. Edlund, and if Mr. Ragland can answer better, then you 
may pass the question to him, or you just chime right in. 

"Wliat is your full name, Mr. Edlund ? 

Mr. Edlund. Raymond A. Edlund. 

Mr. Halley. And your address ? 

Mr. Edlund. 1015 West Gregory Boulevard, Kansas City, Mo. 

Mr. Halley. And in what business are you ? 

Mr. Edlund. Right now, in the drug business, but I am a banker. 
I am just organizing a new bank, and I am right in the midst of 
changing. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat bank did you last have ? 

Mr. Edlund. Merchants Bank of Kansas City. 



306 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COISEMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Were you the owner of that bank ? 

Mr. Edlund. No, sir. 

ISIr. Halley. What position did you hold ? 

Mr. Edluxd. Vice president. 

JNIr. Halley. What is your drug business ? 

Mr. Edlund. Wliolesale drugs. 

]\Ir. Halley. Located here ? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Ragland, what is your residence ? 

Mr. Ragland. Jefferson City. 

]\lr. Halley. And what is the full address ? 

]\Ir. Ragland. You want my residence ? 

Mr. Halley. Your residence. 

Mr. Ragland. 1611 West Main. 

Mr. Halley. Jefferson City ? 

INIr. Ragland. Jefferson City, Mo. ; yes, sir. 

ISIr. Halley. What is your business ? 

Mr. Ragland. I am director of the division of mental diseases. 

ISIr. Halley. I am sorry, I didn't hear you. 

Mr. Ragland. Director of the division of mental diseases. 

Mr. Halley. In the State department of health ? 

Mr. Ragland. State department of public welfare and health. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Edlund, did you have some connection with the 
j)olitical campaign or campaigns of 1948 ? 

Mr. Edlund. I am the State treasurer. 

Mr. Halley. You are the State treasurer? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. 

JNIr. Halley. What were your duties in that connection ? 

Mr. Edlund. ]\Iy duties at that time were to collect and keep records 
of the money received by the Democratic State committee. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any duties beyond those connected with 
the Democratic State committee? Did you receive funds for the 
personal campaign of any candidate? 

Mr. Edlund. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Halley. Did you receive funds or transmit funds for any 
county or local political campaign? 

Mr. Edlund. No. I don't quite understand that. 

Mr, Halley. I am just trying to find out the function you per- 
formed. Was it solely connected with the State committee? 

Mr. Edlund. Solely connected with the Democratic State commit- 
tee; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was your function in the campaign, Mr. 
Ragland ? 

Mr. Ragland. You mean in the general or primary, or both? 

Mr. Halley. Both. 

ISIr. Ragland. I was employed in the State auditor's office. I han- 
dled the funds in Governor Smith's — I handled the funds — we had 
what we called an office fund. I liandled those funds. When he an- 
nounced for Governor, I also handled the campaign contribution and 
paid all the bills. 

Mr. Halley. Were vou at tliat time employed as an auditor for the 
State? 

Mr. Ragland. I was chief clerk in the State auditor's office. 



ORGANIZED CEIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 307 

Mr. Halley. Did you do that work right in the State auditor's 
office ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. Let me correct that. I did part of it there 
and part of it down at his headquarters after he announced for 
Governor. 

Mr. Halley. What other functions did you have besides handling 
the funds for Governor Smith's personal campaign? 

Mr. Ragland. I was assistant treasurer of the Democratic State 
committee. 

Mr. Halley. How was Governor Smith's primary campaign 
financed? Was it financed in part by the State committee? 

Mr. Raglaxd. No, none. 

Mr. Halley. None by the State committee ? 

Mr. Ragland. Not to my knowledge. I am sure we didn't receive 
any money from the State committee. 

Mr. Halley. Is that also your understanding, Mr. Edlund ? 

Mr. Edlltnd. You see, I wasn't treasurer then. I was the treasurer 
after the primary. 

Mr. Halley. I see. How was the primary campaign financed, 
then? Out of Governor Smith's personal campaign fund? 

Mr. Ragland. He put in some money, and employees and friends, 
contributions from individuals. 

Mr. Halley. Let us now, then, dispose of the personal campaign in 
the primary. 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you here a list of the contributors ? 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir, I have not. The reason I didn't bring those, 
Mr. Edlund called me Monday night to bring up the State commit- 
tee records, and I left my office yesterday at 10 : 30. When I got here, 
my secretary called me and said there was a man there with a subpena, 
she thought. He asked for me, and he was out to my residence. So I 
immediately called the marshal's office here and asked him if there was 
a subpena out for me and what it contained. They said they didn't 
have a copy of it. The server had it with him. I said, "Well, I will 
be at the Phillips Hotel or at my son's office here in Kansas City, and 
I will accept service on it." The only records that I brought were the 
State committee records. 

Mr. Edlund. I might say, I asked him to bring that because my 
subpena said that. 

Mr. Halley. The State committee records do not show the personal 
campaign of Governor Smith ? 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir ; they do not. 

Mr. Halley. Would it be possible for you to have somebody to 
bring those records here so that you could testify tomorrow morning 
about the personal campaign ? 

Mr. Ragland. I think I can get someone to get them up here prob- 
ably by tomorrow afternoon. I don't know whether I could get them 
here in the morning or not. I will do my best. 

Mr. Halley. The committee had hoped 

The Chairman. By 1 : 30 ? 

Mr. Ragland. I am pretty sure I can. 

Mr. Halley. Fine. 



308 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Ragland. I would have brought them if I had been subpciiaed. 

Mr. Halley, Did you personally receive all campaign contributions 
for the primary ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Those that were collected by other peoi)le were all 
turned over to you ? 

Mr. Ragland. I wouldn't say all that was collected by other people. 
All I received, I made a record of. 

Mr. Halley. Did you make a record of the contributors? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you deposit it in the bank ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. In what bank did you deposit it ? 

Mr. Ragland. Central Missouri Trust Co. 

The Chairman. That is in Jefferson City ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Your disbursements are all recorded? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. And those are the records you will have here to- 
morrow ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Let me ask Mr. Ragland one or two questions. 

Mr. Ragland, the matter of the Molasky gift came out. Appar- 
ently that money w^as taken by Mr. Hendren and then turned over to 
you, and apparently that is not recorded. 

Mr. Ragland. That is right. 

The Chairman. What took place in that matter ? Did you record 
some and not record others ? 

Mr. Ragland. There w^as some money given me with instructions 
that this does not belong to the State committee, and for me to keep 
that separate until I was instructed to pay it out to someone, the 
same as we had the State Candidates' Club. That was money con- 
tributed by the CIO. Mr. Edlund received a letter that that was 
not to be used for the campaign of any Federal employee. I have 
the letter with me. So that money was put in the State candidates' 
file. He is the treasurer, and I received the money and disbursed it 
as assistant treasurer. 

The Chairman. You mean you had a separate bank account for 
that? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Let us follow this just a minute. Then you have 
a separate set of books for the funds received that were not to be put 
into the State campaign? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You kept those books ? 

Mr. Ragland. It is just a sheet of paper. 

The Chairman. Where is it ? 

Mr. Ragland. I have it here. I just kept it for my own protection. 

The Chairman. May I see that, Mr. Ragland ? 

(Paper handed to the chairman.) 

Mr. Ragland. That is a copy of it. I kept the original at home be- 
cause I didn't want to lose it. That is an exact copy of it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 309 

The Chairman. 'What happened to tlie special fund? 

Mr. Kagland. If I may come around there 

The Chairman. Yes, sir, come around and show us. You can file 
this is an exhibit to your testimony ? 

Mr. Ragland. That is a copy ; yes, sir. I just kept that so that I 
"would be able to explain what I did with the money. 

The Chairman. This will be made as exhibit No. 23 to your testi- 
mony. 

(Exhibit Xo. 23 is on file with the committee.) 

The Chairman. Now, show us what you did with the money. 

Mr. Ragland. Here are the receipts on here. There is the amounts 
received. 

The Chairman. Here is J. J. Price. 

Mr. Ragland. That was a name used to identify that cash money. 
I didn't know where it came from. 

The Chairman. You mean none of these names here mean any- 
thing? 

Mr. Ragland. All do except J. J. Price. 

The Chairman. Wlio gave you that $5,000, do you know ? 

Mr. Ragland. It is hard for me to say who handed it to me. I think 
Mr. Hendren gave it to me. 

The Chairman. You do not know where it came from ? 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir; I do not. 

The Chairman. J. J. Price is just a fictitious name? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right. It is a name I used. 

The Chair3Ian. All the rest of the names here except J. J. Price are 
real names? 

Mr. Ragland. I think they are. I am reasonably sure they are. 
Some of them I know. I know this man Griffin, John Griffin; and 
John Nangle. John Narigle is the Democratic national committee- 
man. Of that amount, $3,500 went into the banking account of the 
State committee. 

The Chairman. Here is $900, which went to what ? 

Mr. Ragland. That was $900 from Mr. Nangle, and it went into the 
State committee. 

The Chairman. These other things are other things that were 
spent ? 

Mr. Ragland. These are the pay-outs over here. 

The Chairman. The biggest item here appears to be $1,355. 

Mr. Ragland. That is $135.50. 

The Chairman. $135 for office expense, is that right ? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right. 

The Chairman. Here is $400 to John Hendren. Is that toward his 
expenses ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How much was the amount that you paid out to 
him to help him with his expenses ? 

Mr. Ragland. On this amount here, let's see. Here is $200, 1 believe, 
here, and you can run down the list there. John Hendren, what is 
that, $100 or $500 ? 

The Chairman. Here is $400. Here again is $100. 

Mr. Ragland. And then his name may appear there again. I am 
not sure. 



310 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. This says, "Special fund, general election." 

Mr. Eaglakd. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. This was not the general election, was it? 

INlr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I thought this was the primary. 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir ; that is the general election. 

The Chairman. Is the original of this in a book ? 

Mr. Ragland. No; it is just like that. 

The Chairman. On a sheet of paper just like this ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. This is an exact copy ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Where is the $2,000 from Molasky on here ? 

Mr. Ragland. Well, I don't know. It may be in that $5,000. 

The Chairman. That is one fund. Was this kept in a separate bank 
account ? 

Mr. Ragland. No, that wasn't in a bank account at all. 

The Chairman. That was just cash you kept? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Where did you keep it? 

Mr. Ragland. Down at headquarters. 

The Chairman. These payments out were in cash ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Something has been said about $1,700 being sent 
down to Jasper County. 

Mr. Ragland. Yes. 

The Chairman. Is that on here ? 

Mr. Ragland. Right here, sir [indicating]. 

The Chairman. That is listed under disbursement to Homer Miller. 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Mr. Ragland, not that we have any question about 
the authenticity of this, but in telling the other members of the com- 
mittee about it, I would like to be able to tell them I have seen the 
original, if that is satisfactory. 

JSIr. Ragland. I will get the original. 

The Chairman. All right, sir. That was one account that you had, 
a cash account for the Governor's race and the general election ? 

Mr. Ragland. That wasn't the Governor's. That was just the gen- 
eral election. 

The Chairman. That was the general election, State election ? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes, sir ; that was for all candidates. 

The Chairman. National candidates, too? 

Mr. Ragland. I assume that money was used for them. It is like- 
the $1,700 that went to Jasper County, that Homer Miller got. It 
went to the Jasper County committee. 

The Chairman. Mr. Edlund, did you know about this account? 

Mr. Edlund. No, I didn't, until the Molaslcy deal came out, and I 
went down and checked these books. 

The Chairman. That is the first you found out about it? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. I would like to bring you up to date on this 
committee deal. 

Tlie Chairman. Yes, sir. Go ahead. 

]Mr. Edlund. I decided to leave everything to Jefferson City, and 
that is how the assistant treasurer came in, because I wouldn't have 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 311 

time to keep all these records. I do think that you will find that we 
Jiave some very fine records. 

Mr. H ALLEY. May we see the records you have brought ? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes. Any money that came in, w^e have complete 
records going out. That is what you call a control record there. 

Mr. Hallet. Do you have any others you could turn over now, and 
then perhaps we can question from them ? 

Mr. Ragland. I will explain how I kept the State committee records. 

Mr. Halley. First, the Molasky $2,000 was in connection with the 
general election and not in connection with the primary, is that right? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right. If that was in that $5,000. I never 
heard of Molasky until it came out in the papers. 

Mr. Halley. Just to make absolutely sure that we don't get con- 
fused between the two systems, the questions that I originally asked 
were about the primary, is that right ? 

Mr. Ragland. I don't 

Mr. Halley. Then you came up here and started talking to Sen- 
ator Kefauver, and through all of that conversation you were talk- 
ing about the general election? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right, sir. That is all general, and has no 
connection with the primary. These records we have here, every- 
thing I have here was after the primary. 

Mr. Halley. We are now talking about the general election ? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Halley. There was no special fund in the primary whatsoever ? 

Mr. Ragland. I had a special fund of some refund money that I 
Avill produce here tomorrow. There is, I think, about $3,000 in that, 
some refund of money that we handled in cash. 

Mr. Edlund. How many accounts did we have ? 

Mr. Ragland. You mean as State treasurer? 

3Ir. Edlund. We had the Democratic State committee account. No. 
1. We had the candidates' account. No. 2, is that right ? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right. 

Mr. Edlund. You had this special fund deal right there. No. 3 ? 

Mr. Ragland. That is right. 

Mr. Edlund. Did we have any other accounts at all besides those 
three ? 

Mr. Ragland. You mean for the general ? 

Mr. Edlund. For the general election. 

Mr. Ragland. No, absolutely not. 

The Chairman. Let us get that straight again. Democratic State 
committee account. That is this [indicating] ? 

Mr. Edlund. That is right. 

The Chairman. Then the State Candidates' Club ? 

Mr. Edlund. This will be cleared up right quick, if you would like 
to see it, and then we will go into that. 

I set this up this way myself. There was about $4:,400 worth of 
checks from the CIO. Some of them were made payable to the Gov- 
ernor and some of them to the candidates. So when we got to check- 
ing and I found out the Governor had used his quota, I asked Jim 
Davis, the CIO man, was this mone}^ intended just for the Governor, 
or is it intended for the candidates, too. 

The Chairman. What was the Governor's quota, by the way? 

Mr. Edlund. I don't know what that was. 



312 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMAIERCE 

Mr. Ragland. About $14,000, something over $14,000 for the Gov- 
ernor. 

The Chairman. I know, but by hxw ? 

Mr. IUgl.\nd. About $17,000. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Edlund. So I asked him if he would give me a letter that we 
could use this for various candidates. There were a great number of 
checks. We needed the money for the campaign. AVe didn't want to 
give the checks back. He wrote me this letter. 

The Chairman. Who is this? 

Mr. Edlund. Jim Davis, in the State CIO. He is State secretary. 

The Chairman. Letter of October 26, 1948, to Mr. E'dlund : 

I enclose herewith various CIO local checks in the amount of $3,002. You will 
note tliese checks are made payable, some to Forrest Smith and some to the 
Forrest Smith for Governor Committee. It is our intention that this money be 
used for Forrest Smith or State candidates only, as they see fit, in connection 
with their State campaign. Any other checks you may receive of a similar nature 
may also be used in this manner. Under no circumstances must these contribu- 
tions be used to further the interest of any candidate for Federal ofiice. 

This is Missouri State Industrial Union Coimcil, CIO. 

Mr. Edlund. The reason I asked for that letter is because I wanted 
a definite understanding where the money came from and what it was 
to be used for. There is our report that we filed on that. 

Mr. Halley. That is a clearly identifiable donation, but I notice 
here on your Democratic State committee work papers, most of the 
contributions are just called donations, unidentified. 

Mr. Ragland. I will explain my system. On all money received 
that went i,n the State committee I issued a receipt. I used a duplicate 
receipt book. You will notice in the first column there, or the second 
column, you notice the heading there. It says "Receipt No." 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Ragland. All right. Any receipt number, if you call the num- 
ber, I can show you who I gave the receipt to. 

Mr. Halley. "Receipt No. 1190-1206. 

Mr. Edlund. They go only to 1800. 

Mr. Halley. This is 1190-1206. 

Mr. Ragland. That is 2 or 3 receipts in there, 3'ou see. What is the 
first number? 

Mr. Halley. 1190-1206. 

Mr. Edlund. 1190 is from Charles R. Sands, Raleigh, Mo., a $10 
contribution. 

Mr. Halley. I see the system. What you did was keep duplicates 
of the receipts, and then you bunched them ? 

Mr. Ragland. On my control, it isn't necessary to write every re- 
ceipt, to enter every receipt on your control record, because it would 
just be a duplication. 

Mr. Halley. According to this control record, the total amount 
for your State committee would be $59,675.53, is that corect? 

Mr, Ragland. That is correct. 

Mr. Halley. Would that include the special fund that Senator 
Kef auver was looking at ? 

Mr. Ragland, Yes. 

Mr. Halley. There is more than $3,500 in the special fund? 

Mr. Ragland. The amount that was transferred to the bank ac- 
count is included. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 313 

Mr. Halley. In addition to that, you have certain other funds 
that you did not record ? 

Mr. Eagland. That is right, sir, 

Mr. Edlund. Take $3,500 off, there would be about $7,000, besides 
this here. 

Mr. Halley. As you both know, this committee has had numerous 
newspaper reports and other reports brought to its attention, charg- 
ing that there were very Large contributions made to Governor Smith's 
campaign by groups of gamblers or by Charles Binaggio or others. 
The sum that has been mentioned frequently is $100,000. Do either 
of you — I think perhaps, for the record, 3'ou had better answer sep- 
arately — do either of you have any knowledge of any contribution 
made by or through Charles Binaggio? Do you, Mr. Edlund? 

Mr. Edlund. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you, Mr. Ragland ? 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do either of you have any knowledge of any single 
contribution to the State committee made by any gambler ? Do you, 
Mr. Edlund? 

Mr. Edlund. None that I know of. 

Mr. Ragland. No, I don't know of any. 

Mr. Halley. Aside from the Democratic State committee, is it pos- 
sible that in some way, through some channel, contributions were 
made by Charles Binaggio or other gamblers to the campaign of Gov- 
ernor Smith ? 

Mr. Ragland. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Edlund. Not to my knowledge, either. 

Mr. Halley. You neither know of it nor can think of any way in 
which it might have been done? 

The Chairman. I think we should point out at this point, here in 
Kansas City, for instance, you had your own local organization of 
which Mr. Milligan was the chairman. 

Mr. Edlund. Yes. 

The Chairman. What record or control did you have 

Mr. Edlund. Right here, all I know about 

The Chairman. But just a minute, now. Suppose somebody here 
in Kansas City wanted to give Mr. Milligan some funds for spending 
here in Kansas City, would you have any record or control of that? 

Mr. Edlund. The only records I have got is the money that was 
turned over to me. That is the only knowledge I have. I do have 
records of all that. I do think that Mr. Ragland has a very fine 
record there, of money that we have received. 

The Chairman. Yes, this looks like a well-kept record ; I will say 
that very frankly. 

Mr. Edlund. I would like to make another statement. That record 
will show that we started with about $900 and some. As I remember, 
we had about $1,000 worth of bills. 

We have maintained a fine headquarters in Jefferson City for the 
past 2 years. We have paid a secretary $500 a month and expenses. 
We have paid $200 a month for our headquarters. We have a girl 
who works down there keeping all records of various types, at $190 
a month. And we now have over $30,000 in the bank to the credit of 
the Democratic State committee. I would say 90 percent of that 



314 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

money was gotten this way : by $5 contributions [passing card to the 
chairman]. 

The Chairman. ]Mr. Edhmd has handed the chairman an attractive 
bkie, white, and silver card. Is this a picture of the State capitol? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. It says : 

Member, Democratic State Club of Missouri, 1949, issued to Col. Ray Edlund. 
R. A. Edlund, treasurer. John H. Hendren, committee chairman. 

It has a little seal down on the left side, the State seal. That is $5 
membership ? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That is the way you raised most of the money ? 

Mr. Edlund. I would say 90 percent. 

Mr. Eagland. That is the money raised after the last general 
election. 

Mr. Edlund. It is not this money here. 

The Chairman. Since the general election. Mr. Edlund was talk- 
ing about paying a secretary $500 a month, and having $30,000 in the 
bank. That is the way you have raised the most of it ? 

Mr. Edlund. We are very proud of it, for the simple reason that 
you hear of a lot of bad things. That is one thing we are proud of. 

The Chairman. Why have you not all gotten out and told the 
people the other side of the picture ? 

Mr. Edlund. What I mean is, I wanted to put that forth here, 
because I think that card is the proper way to collect and solicit funds 
for a political program. 

The Chairman. You are not paid anything for acting as treasurer? 

Mr. Edlund. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Have you ever held public office ? 

Mr. Edlund. I have. 

The Chairman. What did you hold ? 

Mr. Edlund. I was chairman of the election board for 8 or 9 months. 

The Chairman. In this county? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. Just recently resigned. 

The Chairman. That is not a paid office, is it ? 

Mr. Edlund. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What did it pay ? 

Mr. Edlund. It paid $300 a month. 

The Chairman. Let me ask, Mr. Edlund — let us go on before I get 
into tliat — is there anything else about the records? 

Mr. Halley. No ; except that I would prefer having them left here 
for the committee's investigators to look at. 

The Chairman. What is the situation about that? Here you have 
an original letter. We will return it to you, or would you rather we 
liave it photostated? What do you want done with it? 

]Mr. Edlund, Those are our records, and they are in good hands as 
far as I am concerned. 

The Chairman. This letter and the report of the State Democratic 
club of Jefferson City will be made exhibit No. 24 to ^Ir. Edlund's 
testimony. 

(Exliibit No. 24 was returned to the witness after analysis by the 
committee.) 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 315 

The Chairman. These records and the receipt stubs that you have 
here, we will keep under lock and go over them, and then return 
them to you. 

Mr. Halley, You put them all together. 

The Chairman. What else do you have in that box, Mr. Rag] and? 

Mr. Kagland. I want to explain to you. Off the receipt I made a 
card for each contributor, and the same information is on the card as 
is on the receipt. I will pull one out here, any one of them. If you will 
notice there, there is the dat« and the receipt number. 

The Chairman. That is ^'1948-49, 9/24, K-1042." What is R-1042" ? 

Mr. Ragland. The receipt number. 

The Chairman. You have a '"50" with a red circle around it. 

Mr. Ragland. They are all circled, because I changed my system. 
I thought I was going to carry it all under the same system, and I 
found there was too much detail, so I had a triplicate receipt book 
made. I gave the original to the contributor, the duplicate serves 
instead of the card, and the triplicate stays in the bound book. It just 
saved the trouble of writing the card each time. 

The Chairman. How are they listed and filed in your index? 

Mr. Ragland. In the front part it is by departments, employees, as 
near as I could identify them with any particular department. 

Then behind is alphabetical index of individuals who were not con- 
nected with the State. You might find some back there that were con- 
nected with the State, but I didn't know they were State employees. 

You will find a receipt for every amount shown on the report on 
the control record, and you will find a card that corresponds to the 
receipt. 

Mr. Halley. So on this card where it says, "Newberry, Carl R. 
(PSC)," is that Public Service Commission? 

Mr. Ragland. He is an employee of the Public Service Commission. 

The Chairman. Let us return that card to Mr. Ragland. Does 
that mean they are contributing to the Democratic State committee? 

Mr. Ragland. Yes. To familiarize you with the system, look at 
receipt No. 1042. The reason I circled all these, it was at the end of 
my report. I thought I would use the same system for the coming 
year, so that I would know that anything below that circle w^as new 
business. 

Mr. Edlund. This doesn't jibe here. It says $407.75. 

Mr. Ragland. All right. Let me have the control record here. 
What is the date on that? 

Mr. Edlund. September 25. 

Mr. Ragland. Receipt No. 1042. 

Mr. Edlund. $407.75 there. 

Mr. Ragland. All right. That is broken down. You can go through 
there and pick out enough of those receipts to make this total amount 
of money, you see. 

Mr. Edlund. Yes. 

Mr. Ragland. In other words, I issued one receipt to McClinic. 

Mr. Edlund. You collected from various fellows in that depart- 
ment ? 

Mr. Ragland. But that is broken down for individuals. 

Mr. Edlund. I see. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

68958—51— pt. 4a 21 



316 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COIVIMERCE 

The Chairman. Back on the record. 

Mr. Edliind, you have lived here in Kansas City a long time ? 
Mr. Edlund. All my life. 

The Chairman. What happened when Binaggio came into power 
here in the gambling world and exerted a great deal of influence in 
tlie Democratic Party ? Do you know what he tried to do in connection 
with exerting his influence with the police department and the police 
commissioners ? What do you know about it ? 

Mr. Edlund. I know nothing about the police department at all, 
I have known Charley Binaggio ever since he was a vei*y young boy. 
I knew him because he did business with the bank. His rise in political 
power around here I attributed to one reason, and one reason only, 
and that is that he thought politics, he worked politics 24 hours a day, 
and nobody else around here paid much attention to it. All of a 
sudden, I don't know why, he rose to power. 

The Chairman. Was there a general feeling in the administration 
that Binaggio had risen to power and he delivei-ed the votes, and he 
ought to have his way here in Kansas City politically in the matter 
of patronage? 

Mr. Edlund. I don't believe that was generally felt, no. 1 have just 
been in politics the last few years. There was so much jealousy and 
everything else. He had power to deliver votes, yes, but I don't be- 
lieve that the feeling there was that he should have too much power. 
1 don't believe he did. 

The Chairman. Was the tliought around here that the town was 
going to open up because Smith got elected and Binaggio was the 
big wheel here in Kansas City ? 

Mr. Edlund. Maybe some of them did, yes. I couldn't answer that, 
because I have never had anything to do with gambling, either as a 
player or as a person providing places to play, so I don't pay much 
attention to it. 

The Chairman. As to Mr. Milligan and Mr. Farrell, was it thought 
they would use their influence toward opening up the city when they 
were appointed? 

Mr. Edlund. I never heard anything like that. 

The Chairman. You have seen it in the papers ? 

Mr. Edlund. I mean in direct conversation I never heard it. 

The Chairman. What was the feeling about, it when they were 
appointed ? 

Mr. Edlund. The general feeling by the public, I think, was that 
the jDlace was going to be open. 

The Chairman. That it was going to be opened up ? 

Mr. Edlund. That was the general public thought, and the news- 
papers printed purchases of buildings. 

The Chairman. Why was that the general public thought? 

Mr. Edlund. It was opinion. One opinion is as gogd as another. 

The Chairman. What was your opinion ? 

Mr. Edlund. My opinion was that he had enough power to do it, I 
guess. 

The Chairman. Do you know anything about the power he tried to 
exert, how near he came to it? 

Mr. Edlund. No. I don't know anything about that. 

The Chairman. He did not mind using any power he had, I take it ? 

Mr. Edlund. It is hard for me to sit here and defend a man when 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 317 

the newspapers and everybody lias written about liim as a leading 
gangster. I knew him a little different. I didn't know him as a 
gambler and all that. I knew him as a customer of the bank and a 
man who worked hard in politics. 

It later turned out that he was involved. I am not going to say I 
didn't know he was involved in some gambling, because I did. But 
nothing to the extent that it turned out. 

The Chairman. Mr. Ragland, when he came to Jefferson City did 
he come into your office ? 

Mr. Eagland. I don't believe I ever saw Charley Binaggio over 
three times in my life. The first time I ever recall seeing him was 
when President Truman was Vice President and made a speech at 
Jefferson City. It was either there or the State convention. I know 
it was over at the high school. 

Then I saw him in Jefferson City one time in the Governor Hotel. 
I never saw him in the headquarters that we had for Governor Smith. 
1 never saw him in the Democratic State headquarters. I never saw 
him in the capitol. I was never even introduced to the man. 

The Chairman. Did he bring you any of these checks or any cash 
money that is listed here? 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir. 

The Chiarman. Did he convey it from someone else, but he brought 
it in ? 

Mr. Ragland. No. The way I entered the money, if anyone brought 
money and said, "Credit this to John Doe," that is who I wrote the 
receipt to. I never recall anyone giving me any money and saying 
"This is from Binaggio." 

The Chairman. What I was asking about was, suppose John Doe 
here in Kansas City had written a check to the State Democratic com- 
mittee and had given it to Binaggio to take over there. Did you ever 
see him convey or bring you checks or money from someone else? 

]Mr. Ragland. No, sir ; I never even saw him in the headquarters. 

The Chairman. I mean outside the headquarters. 

Mr. Ragland. No, sir; I never saw him. I don't believe I ever 
spoke to the man in my life. I am positive I was never introduced to 
him. 

The Chairman. Are there any other points about this that either 
of you gentlemen feel should bo brought out here ? 

Mr. Edlund. I would like to ask you. Senator, do you think we have 
tried to keep our records in pretty good shape? That is what I am 
interested in. 

The Chairman. I want to say frankly, you have very complete 
records. 

Mr. Edlund. We have tried to do the job. I did very little of it. 
Mr. Ragland is the one responsible for it. 

The Chairman. I do not know what is in the record, but you seem 
to have a good system, you seem to have a full and voluminous record. 

Mr. Ragland. I wall be glad to go through any of the records that 
you or your auditors might want to go through with us. It might 
be a little bit messy. 

Mr. Edlund. He and I will both be glad to go over this with your 
agent or anybody else you designate. 

The Chairman. Mr. White will be here for some time, and, if there 
is any explanation, he will get in touch with you. 



318 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COJVIMERCE 

Mr. Ragland. I will be glad to explain any entry there. 

The Chairman. What is it you are going to bring back tomorrow ? 

Mr. Ragland. All of the money that was handled for the Forrest 
Smith primary and the general election. 

The Chairman. I believe that is all. May we keep these ? Whose 
bag is that ? 

Mr. Ragland. That is mine. 

The Chairman. Do you want to take that back with you now ? 

Mr. Ragland. You can keep them as long as you want. 

Mr. Edlund. They are in good hands. My God, this is all we 
have. 

The Chairman. We will be very careful with them. 

Mr. Ragland. I wouldn't want them to disappear. 

Mr. Halley. Senator Kefauver had in mind, if we kept them in a 
bag, it is more easy to keep them intact, if you can spare the bag for a 
few days. 

The Chairman, Thank you very much, gentlemen. 

Mr. Ragland. Would it be possible for me to appear here at 1 : 30? 

The Chairman. Yes ; that is all right. 

Mr. Ragland. Would you care to see the current records of the 
Democratic State Committee ? 

The Chairman. No ; we have no interest in that. 

(Witnesses excused.) 

The Chairman. Call in Mr. Noonan. 

Mr, Noonan, wall you hold up your hand. Do you solemnly swear 
the testimony you will give this committee will be the whole truth and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Noonan. I do. 

The Chairman. Have a seat, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN K. NOONAN, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Halley. What is your full name ? 

Mr, Noonan. John K. Noonan. 

Mr. Halley. And where do you reside? 

Mr. Noonan. My residence is 321 Benton Boulevard, Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. Do you also have an apartment at Jefferson City? 

Mr. Noonan. I do ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Where is that ? 

Mr. Noonan. That is at 410 East High Street. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have that apartment alone or do you share it 
■with somebody? 

Mr. Noonan. I share it. 

Mr. Halley. With a Mr. Jones ? 

Mr. Noonan. I did share it last year with Jones. Now I am sharing 
it with another party, 

Mr, Halley, What is Jones' full name ? 

Mr, Noonan. George S. Jones. 

Mr. Halley. George S. Jones. 

Mr. Noonan. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Who do you share it with now? 

Mr. Noonan. There is a fellow named Markowitz coming in there 
now. In fact, there are going to be two of them down there with me. 



ORGANIZED CRIME EST INTERSTATE COMMERCE 319 

Mr. Hallet. Do you know Robert Colin, a member of tlie Board of 
Police Commissioners of Kansas City? 

Mr. XooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know Hampton Chambers of the same board ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I knew of him. I didn't know Hampton Chambers 
personally. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know Mr. Milligan on that board? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. During the period shortly after Governor Smith's 
election and his assumption of office in the early part of 1949 did you 
have any conversations with any of the members of the Board of Police 
Commissioners of Kansas City ? 

Mr. NooxAN. Yes, sir. I would say I have had conversations on 
several occasions with Milligan, Farrell, and some with Cohn. 

Mr. Halley. Did Cohn on one occasion go to your apartment in 
Jefferson City with Milligan ? 

Mr. NooNAisr. He may have. Milligan did on several occasions. 
I don't recall Cohn being there. He would. I met him in Jefferson 
City. He met him on several occasions there. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever meet Cohn at the Phillips Hotel ? 

Mr. NooNAN. At the Phillips Hotel here in Kansas City ; yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever discuss with Cohn the problems of the 
board of police commissioners? 

Mr. NooxAx. Well, I discussed patronage with him. Farrell and 
Milligan, you know, where the only two appointments by the Gov- 
ernor, and Cohn and the rest of them were hold-over appointments. I 
asked him if he would work with those men on the patronage. There 
were a lot of hold-over police on there. 

Mr. Halley. For whom were you talking? 

Mr. NooxAx. For whom was I talking? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. What was your status in the picture? 

Mr. NooxAX. My status was for the Democrats. 

Mr. Halley. Are you an official of the Democratic Party ? 

Mr. NooxAx. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Do you hold any State office? 

Mr. NooxAx. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You were really talking for yourself, then? 

Mr. NooxAx. I have been very active in Democratic politics for 
years here in the State of Missouri. 

Mr. Halley. Had you had any discussions of the matter with 
Charlie Binaggio? 

Mr. NooxAX. About the patronage? 

Mr. Halley. About the police commission. 

Mr. NooxAx. No ; I don't believe I had. 

Mr. Halley. None whatsoever about the patronage ? 
_ Mr. NooxAX. I have talked to Charlie about patronage a lot of 
times. I met with him in Jefferson City and more than likely tried to 
help him get the patronage. I didn't name any— I don't believe I ever 
appeared in Kansas City and tried to name any certain individuals. 
I talked concerning several people who had been on there for several 
years who didn't belong to the party and should be taken off. 

Mr. H.\LLEY. Binaggio wanted to get rid of the chief of police, 
didn't he, Chief Johnson? 



320 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COJVIMERCE 

Mr. NooNAN. Biiifiggio wanted to get rid of the chief of police. I 
was very much in favor of that. 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk to Binaggio about that? 

Mr. NooNAN. I more than likely did. 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk to Milligan about it? 

Mr. NooxAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you and Binaggio together talk to Milligan about 
it? 

Mr. NooNAN. I doubt it. 

Mr. Halley. You talked to Milligan, though? 

Mr. Noonax. I did; yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you talk to Milligan about it? 

Mr. NooxAX. I don't know; on several occasions more than likely 
because I didn't think the man in there was entitled to be held in there. 

Mr. Halley. For political reasons? 

Mr. Nooxax. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Having nothing to do with the ability or lack of 
■ability? 

Mr. NooxAX. No, sir. I always felt to the victor belongs the spoils, 
and he certainly wasn't supposed to be held over there under a Demo- 
cratic administration. 

Mr. Halley. What was Milligan's view on that matter ? 

Mr. Nooxax. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. You say you talked to him. What did he have to 
say about it? 

Mr. NooxAX". He didn't seem — whether he wanted to or not. He 
didn't make any effort to remove him. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't he have a candidate of his own ? 

Mr. NooxAx. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Halley. A man named Braun ? 

Mr. Nooxax. No, sir. That wasn't Milligan's candidate. 

Mr. Halley. Whose candidate was Braun? 

Mr. Nooxax'. I don't know. I imagine Charlie Binaggio was the 
fellow trying to put Braun in. Milligan very emphatically told me 
he would never appoint Braun. 

Mr. Halley. Did Charlie Binaggio ever talk to you about Braun? 

Mr. NooxAX. Yes; he asked me if I knew Braun, which I didn't. 

Mr. Halley. Did he say he wanted to get Braun appointed? 

Mr. Nooxax. He told me he would like to have Braun appointed 
chief of police and I asked Milligan and Milligan told me he would 
never appoint him. I dropped it. 

Mr. Halley. Did Charlie Binaggio also ask you to intercede with 
reference to certain other officials of the police department such as 
the chief of detectives? 

Mr. Nooxax. No. Did he ask me to intercede with them ? 

Mr. Halley. Not with them but about the replacement of them 
"with other people. 

Mr. Nooxax. No ; I believe that was the only man that he mentioned, 
the one named Braun. I don't believe he mentioned any other names 
for that office. 

Mr, Halley. Did you ever have a meeting with Charlie Binaggio 
and Cohn, Robert Colin, at the Phillips Hotel ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMJMERCE 321 

Mr. Halley. That was in a suite of rooms that was being paid for 
by Spitz, wasn't it ? 

Mr, NooNAN. I couldn't tell you who was paying for the rooms, 

Mr, Halley, Wasn't there a police committee of the Binaggio Club, 
the Fifteenth Street Club ? 

Mr. NooNAN. There may have been. The truth of the matter is I 
don't know anything about the political organization here in Kansas 
City because I had no part in that at all. Binaggio was the head of the 
organization and naturally he being active in the campaign I dealt 
with the head of the organization. 

Mr, Halley, You know Eddie Spitz, don't you ? 

Mr, NooNAN, Yes ; I have known him for years, 

Mr, Halley, You were at the Hotel Phillips for this meeting with. 
Binaggio and Cohn, is that right? 

Mr. Noonan. I was at a meeting with Binaggio. I was at a meeting 
with Cohn and Binaggio came in, 

Mr, Halley, Was that Spitz' room you were in ? 

Mr, NooNAN, I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Halley. Was it your room ? 

Mr, NooNAN, It may have been. I have had a room over there. I 
guess Spitz had rooms. 

Mr. Halley. It might have been either of you ? 

Mr. Noonan. Yes. 

Mr, Halley. What happened at that conversation? Will you dis- 
cuss the conversation ? 

Mr. Noonan. No; I couldn't tell you the exact conversation. Mr. 
Halley, my conversation with him altogether was patronage. On the 
police department they have an awful lot of civilian employees, and I 
believe that I was talking to Cohn to ask him to release those civilian 
employees to the Kansas City organization, 

Mr, Halley, You called Cohn first on the telephone and asked him 
to come up ; is that right ? 

Mr. Noonan. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. He came to your suite ? 

Mr. Noonan. That is ri^it. 

Mr. Halley. And then Binaggio joined him? 

Mr. Noonan. That is right, 

Mr, Halley. You had certain records of the civilian personnel ; is 
that right? 

Mr, Noonan, No, 

Mr, Halley, You had the information about them ? 

Mr. Noonan, Information, yes, 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get that information ? 

Mr. Noonan, That is common knowledge, you know. I did not 
have the names or anything. 

Mr. Haley. Who gave you the names, the common knowledge. 

Mr. Noonan. There are 40 or 50 civilians employed by the police 
department. I know that. 

Mr. Halley, Who told you the particular people that you wanted 
to get rid of ? 

Mr, Noonan. I didn't have any particular people in mind, I 
wanted the civilian personnel turned over to the Kansas City organi- 
zation. 



322 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Wlio did you mean by the Kansas City organization, 
Binaggio ? 

Mr. NooNAN". Binaggio was one of them. 

The Chairman. He was the head of it. In your mind he was the 
head of the Kansas City organization ? 

Mr. Noonan. Senator, he was the head of a certain district in 
Kansas City. You see, Shannon has another organization out fartlier 
south. They were all active in the Smith campaign. 

Mr. Halley, On that occasion did you discuss the post held by Cap- 
tain Tovener, the head of the license and inspection department? 

Mr. NooNAN. Did I ? 

]\fr. Halley. You and Binaggio and Cohn, 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't remember whether I did or not, but I recall 
that on one or two occasions I said that he had been on there so long 
I thought he should be retired and a younger man put in the place. I 
made no recommendations as to who the individual should be. 

Mr. Halley. Did you also discuss with Binaggio and Cohn the re- 
moval of Gene Bund, director of personnel ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Who? 

Mr. Halley. Bund. 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't believe I did. 

Mr, Halley. How about Lieutenant Dennison, who is head of the 
vice squad ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't think so. Mr. Halley, it was in more a general 
way than individuals. I believe the only two individuals would bo 
Mr. Tovener and Mr. Johnson, the one you asked about first. 

Mr. Halley. How about Lieutenant Dennison, of the vice squad? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't know Lieutenant Dennison. I know very few 
of the personnel of the police department. 

Mr. Halley. How about Kircher ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't know him. 

Mr. Halley. Lester Kircher, in command of the downtown dis- 
tricts ? 

Mr, NooNAN. I don't know him. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't Binaggio anxious to get rid of him too ? 

Mr. NooNAN. He may have been. He didn't discuss it with me. 

Mr. Halley. In any event, the discussion with Cohn was to try to 
get him to go along? 

Mr. NooNAN. How was that? Was to try to get him to go along? 

Mr. Halley. Yes ; on patronage, 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Hali^y. Didn't he point out that these jobs under the law were 
nonpolitical ? 

Mr. NooNAN. He pointed it out — I forget exactly what it was. He 
told me I believe, if I remember right, that the personnel of the police 
department you couldn't fire them without preferring charges and you 
couldn't bring men from the outside and put them in the upper 
brackets. I believe he told me that the civilian personnel was non- 
political. I believe he told me that, I know I didn't make any head- 
way with him. They were still all there, 

ISIr, Halley, Did you suggest to Cohn that he should talk to Gov- 
ernor Smith about the subject? 

Mr. NooNAN, Did I suggest to Cohn that he talk to Governor Smith ? 
I don't recall that, I wouldn't deny that. I may have. I wouldn't 
hesitate to have done it. 



1 talk to Governor Smith, you would not deny it? 
; I wouldn't deny it because I wouldn't hesitate to 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE CO]M^IERCE 323 

Mr. Halley. Cohn wasn't very receptive to this conversation ? 

Mr. NooNAN. That is right, he wasn't. 

Mr. Halley. Did the subject of his talking to Governor bmith 

come up ^ ^ .„ ^ 11,, 

Mr. NooxAX. If it did, I don't recall it, but I wdl say I wouldn t 

have hesitated because as I say I thought the job belonged to the Smith 

people. 

Mr. Halley. You wouldn't deny that if Cohn says that^ it was 

suggested he should 
Mr. Noon AX. No : 

do it. 11/-. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever tell Cohn that you represented the Gov- 
ernor or were acting for him ? 

Mr. NooxAX. In regard to the police department? 

Mr. Halley. In regard to political matters. 

Mr. NooxAX. No; I didn't tell Cohn, I don't think, that I ever 
represented the Governor because I didn't represent the Governor. 

Mr. Halley. Did you say that you were a trouble shooter for the 
Governor ? 

Mr. NooXAX. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You never used that phrase ? 

JNIr. NooNAx. The Kansas City Star said that. I read it in the 
paper. 

Mr. Halley. You never used that expression? 

Mr. NooxAx. No. 

Mr. Halley. Wlien you talked with Milligan, did Milligan take the 
same attitude that Cohn did ? 

Mr. NooxAx. Well, he did on the chief of ]Dolice. That is, he did 
as far as that one individual was concerned. 

Mr. Halley. You mean Braun ? 

Mr. NooxAX. Yes. He said, "No I will never appoint Braun." 

Mr. Halley. But he wanted to change the chief of police, didn't he ? 

Mr. NooxAX. He didn't say he wanted to. He told me he would not 
do that. I told him that I thought as long as the Smith x^eople had won 
the election we should have the job. 

Mr. Halley. Did he agree with that? 

JSIr. NooxAX. I don't know whether he agreed with it or not. 

Mr. Halley. What position did Milligan take? 

Mr. NooNAX. He didn't seem to take very much of a position at all. 
As I said, we didn't do any good on it. We never changed any of them. 

Mr. Halley. How about Chambers? Did you talk to him? 

Mr. NooxAx. I never talked to him. I might say I met Chambers 
here this morning. 

Mr. Halley. You never talked to him about the matter ? 

Mr. NooxAx. That was the first time I even met Chambers. 

Mr. Halley. Did you take any part in the situation in St. Louis? 

Mr. NooxAX. Yes. I was active all over the State in every town._ 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever take any action with respect to the police 
department in St. Louis ? 

Mr. NooxAX. Yes. I talked to the commissioners up there along 
the same line on patronage. The ward leaders up there were expecting 
some changes. I was informed that the old chief of police in St. Louis 
was a Democrat and that there were a lot of other jobs in the depart- 
ment that were not, and I thought those commissioners should accept 



324 ORGAXIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

their list and demote and promote to help those people out who helped 
lis out. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you ever talk to Roy McKittrick about the St. 
Louis situation? 

Mr. NooNAN. About the police department? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. Did you talk to him about any patronage ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I have talked to him many a time and met him at 
hotels and everything. I don't recall talking about any patronage. 

]\Ir. Halley. In what other departments did you take an interest 
besides the police department on this patronage question? 

Mr. NooNAN. Nearly every department in the State. 

]Mr. Halley. Who did you talk to about what other departments? 

Mr. NooNAN. I talked to the secretary of the State, Toberman, a 
friend of mine from Cole County. I tried to get him appointed chief 
clerk, and did. You know, patronage like that scattered out over the 
State. 

Mr. Halley. What is your business ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I am an engineer, in construction work. I represent 
the Aetna Bonding & Casualty Co. in Kansas City, and have for 12 
years. 

Mr. Halley. Besides representing the Aetna Bonding Co. do you 
have any other business ? 

Mr. Noon AN. I do a little construction work. 

]Mr. Halley. Where do you do that ? 

Mr. Noon AN. I have lately been doing it right around Jefferson 
City. 

Mr. Halley. Under what name do you operate? 

Mr. NooNAN. Just under my own name. I have a fellow named 
Strausse in the last year and a half in there with me. We haven't done 
anything big. It is small work, 

Mr. Halley. Did you collect any funds for the campaign in 1948 ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I didn't solicit any funds. The small money that 
came into the headquarters at our hotel, which I turned over. 

Mr. Halley. Did you work at the headquarters? 

Mr. NooNAN. Just in and out. I was out of the State most of the 
time. I was out of the State quite a bit. When I was here I would 
stay around the headquarters when I was in Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. What was your function in the 1948 campaign? 

Mr. NooNAN. I was just out politically for Smith. Would you say 
I was an organizer ? 

Mr. Halley. You mean you would go around and talk to people? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes; all over. 

j\lr. Halley. Would you talk to leaders or to voters ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No, to leaders. You know what I mean. In fact, I 
have been very active, Mr. Halley, since 1920. 

Mr. Halley. You did that all over the State? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. I have since 1920 when I was chairman of the 
State committee. I went out and was State organizer. 

Mr. Halley. Did you pay your own expenses? 

Mr. NooNAN. Some of them, very little of them. The organizations 
paid me. 

Mr. Halley. Which organizations contributed to your expense 
during the campaign ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 325 

Mr, NooNAN. The Democratic organizations here in Kansas City; 
that is, they paid the expenses. 

Mr. Hallet. Did the Democratic State committee pay your ex- 
penses ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

JNfr. Halley. What organization did? 

Mr. NooNAN". The Binaggio organization did, and some of the St. 
Louis people did up there in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. How much money did you receive from the Binaggio 
club? 

Mr. NooNAN. Personally I didn't receive any money. 

Mr. Halley. I mean for expense money. 

Mr. NooNAN. You mean for expenses paid out ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. NooNAN. I haven't the least idea. 

Mr. Halley. Would it be over a thousand dollars ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Halley. Over ten thousand? 

Mr. NooNAN. Oh, no. 

Mr. Halley. Over five thousand dollars? We are just trying to 
get some idea. 

Mr. NooNAisr. I know you are. I am trying to be as fair as I can. 
Here is the idea. I would go to St. Louis maybe and meet quite a 
few of those ward leaders up there and talk to them. Maybe I would 
be in the hotel today, maybe 3 or 4 days. Maybe the next time I 
would go up I would be there a week. They would pay the hotel bill. 

Mr. Halley. Mr. Binaggio's club ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did any other club pay your hotel bills? 

Mr. NooNAN". No. 

Mr. Halley. You were then pretty much operating right out of 
Binaggio's club, is that right? 

Mr. NooNAN. Well, those special trips I made for them, yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you make special trips for anyone else? 

Mr. NooNAN. For myself, yes. 

Mr. Halley. How many did jou make on your own account ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I made several of them, quite a few. 

Mr. Halley. You made quite a few for the Binaggio club ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes, I made several for them, too. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever arrested? 

Mr. NooNAN. Wliat do you mean arrested ? 

Mr. Halley. By a policeman. 

Mr. NooNAN. I was indicted one time, is that arrested? 

Mr. Halley. I presume so. 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes, about 1930. 

Mr. Halley. Was Binaggio involved in that same matter ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. What was that, will you tell the committee? 

Mr. NooxAN. I was manager of the Kansas City Airport at that 
time and there was a raid out here in the county on the place one 
night by the Government, and I was in there and they took us all out. 
They indicted some 40 of us. 

INIr. Halley. Was it a prohibition indictment ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Prohibition indictment ; yes. 



326 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMJMERCE 

INIr. Halley. They indicted you and Binaggio and others? 

INIr. NooNAX. Forty-some of ns. 

ISIr. Hallet. Were you convicted ? 

Mr. NooxAX. Xo. 

Mr. Halley. What disposition was made of the case ? 

Mr. NooxAx. I am not positive now. Judge Otis dismissed the 
case. I know he dismissed it. I am sure it was Judge Otis. 

Mr. Halley. Did you collect any money for any political campaign 
whatsoever in 1948 ? 

Mr. NooxAx. Did I collect any money for any political campaign? 
As I say, I didn't go out and solicit any money for it, but different 
people came in around headquarters and would leave checks. 

Mr. Halley. Did you receive money ? 

Mr. NooxAX. Checks, yes ; moneys. 

Mr. Halley. Would you name the people from whom you received 
moneys for any political campaign in 1948 ? 

Mv. NooxAx. No ; I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Halley. Did you receive cash as well as checks ? 

Mr. NooxAx. I received one, $500. 

Mr. Halley. From whom was that? 

JNIr. NooxAx. That was from a fellow named Tralle in Kansas City. 

Mr. Halley. A^liat? 

Mr. XooxAx. Tralle. 

Mr. Halley. Would you spell that ? 

Mr. NooxAx. T-r-a-1-l-e, I believe. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know his first name ? 

Mr. Nooxax. No. 

Mr. Halley. In what business was he ? 

Mr. NooxAx. He is dead. 

Mr. Halley. "VMiat business was he in ? 

Mr. Nooxax. I don't know. Since the grand jury was called, I think 
he was tied up with the people in the policy games. 

Mr. Halley. He was in one of those ? 

Mr. NooxAx. I heard he was. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know of any contribution to any of the cam- 
paign funds in 1948 or to any of the candidates made by any one in the 
gambling business ? 

Mr. NooxAX. Do I know of any campaign funds that were given to 
any of the State candidates ? 

Mr. Halley. Or to any of the campaign committees or funds by 
am'body in the gambling business besides the one you have just 
mentioned. 

Mr. NooxAx. No; I don't believe I do. Are you talking about the 
primary or the election ? 

INIr. Halley. Either. 

Mr. NooxAX. Either. I don't believe I do. I don't remember. 
You see, I wasn't around handling finances. Money wasn't turned 
over to me to turn in. I wasn't present when they were collecting 
money. 

IVfr. Halley. Do you know Tony Gizzo ? 

Mr. NooxAx. I know of him. 1 know him when I see him. 

INIr. Halley. Have you ever met him? 

Mr. NooxAX. Yes; I have talked to him. 

Mr. Halley. Where have you seen him ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 327 

Mr. NooNAN. Oil, I don't know where I would say I have seen him. 
He has been round town here for years. I have met him on the 
streets and all. I have never had any conversations with him at all. 
1 saw him out here all day today. 

Mr. Hali.ey. Do you know Morris Klein ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Would you say he is a good friend of yours ? 

]VIr. XooxAN. No ; I wouldn't say he was a friend of mine. I know 
him. 

Mr. Halley. Have you, for instance, had dinner with him on 
occasion ? 

Mr. NooNAx. I wouldn't douht it. Klein and I have, not Gizzo. 

Mr. Halley. Yes ; we are talking about Klein now. 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. HAU.EY. Do you know Eddie Spitz? 

Mr. NooNAN". Yes. 

Mr. Hx^LLEY. Do you know him well? 

Mr. NooNAisr. Very well. 

Mr. Hali.ey. Have you ever been in business wath Eddie Spitz? 

Mr. XooNAN. Yes; I was in a way. I was in with Ralph Spits- 
caufsky when he came down to Jefferson City, in construction down 
there; and, when the war came on and closed the construction business, 
Kalph Spitscaufsky wanted me to go in with him. He has been in 
tlie equi])ment business for years. He wanted me to go with him tc 
buy War Assets contractors' equipment. 

Mr. Halley. Did you do that ? 

Mr. NoONAN. I came up here for a while, and Spitz and those fel- 
lows were in that company. I don't think I stayed with them more 
than 3 months. 

Mr. Halley. What was the name of that company ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I believe it was Spitscaufsky Equipment Co. then or 
after I left they changed it. I have read quite a bit about it in the 
paper. It was known as the Ace Equipment Co. 

Mr. Halley. Didn't Binaggio have an interest in that, too? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes; he did, and Klein and Spitz and myself, and 
Ralph Spitscaufsky. 

Mr. Halley. Were you in any other business venture with 
Binaggio? 

Mr. NooisrAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. None whatsoever ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Not that I remember of. 

Mr. Halley. Were you in any other business venture with Spitz? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been in the gambling business? 

Mr. NooNAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Never operated books ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Or any gambling establishment? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. I know nothing about gambling. 

Mr. Halley. Do you know Gregory Moore ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I know of him ; yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever meet him ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes ; I met him during the campaign. 

Mr. Halley. Was he active in the campaign ? 



328 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. NooNAN. He seemed to be. Every time I would go to St. Louis 
and they would have a meeting and he would be there. 

Mr. Halley. Was he active in collecting funds for the campaign ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't know. I can't tell you about the fund raising, 
because I didn't have anything to do with it. 

Mr. Hallet. Did you get any contribution whatsoever from Greg- 
ory Moore ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Did you give any to Gregory Moore? 

Mr. NooNAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Was he active, however, in the support of the Smith 
campaign ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Alfred Smith — he was out for Smith. 

Mr. Halley. You would see him when you went to a meeting? 

Mr. NooNAN". Yes. 

Mr. Halley. How about Buster Wortman? Do you know him? 

Mr. NooNAN. I met him. 

Mr. Halley. Also during the campaign ? 

Mr. NooNAN. During the campaign. 

Mr. Halley. He was out working for Smith, too ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I couldn't say whether he was or not. I don't know 
whether he was or whether he wasn't out working for Smith. It 
looked like Moore was mixing around with those fellows. I saw him. 
I don't think I saw him more than once or twice. He didn't make 
any impression as a worker. 

Mr. Halley. Whereas Moore did ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes ; Moore was more active. 

Mr. Halley. Wortman was present, however, at political rallies 
for Smith? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Did you act as Binaggio's representative in St. Louis? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever hold yourself out to be Binaggio's repre- 
sentative? 

Mr. Noon AN. I dealt with Binaggio just like any other man in poli- 
tics, who has been in politics as long as I have. You go to the man 
who has the votes and deal with his friends and try to nominate and 
■elect. Smith ran, and naturally I dealt with Binaggio because he did 
liave the votes. 

Mr. Halley.' You did get certain patronage after 1949 — that is, 
after the first of the year in 1949 — is that correct? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes, sir ; we got patronage. 

Mr. Halley. But you failed to get that patronage in the police 
department in Kansas City ; is that right ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I got personal patronage. Are you talking about 
that? 

Mr. Halley. I am talking about the patronage that you and Binag- 
gio discussed together and sought to obtain and talked to Cohn about. 

Mr. NooNAN. No ; we did not. You mean here in Kansas City police 
department ? No. 

Mr. Halley. You just had no luck; is that right? 

Mr. NooNAN. That is right. 

Mr. Halley. Were you able to get any patronage in the St. Louis 
police department ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 329 

Mr. NooNAN. No, sir; none whatever. 

Mr. Halley. Do you think the failure to get that patronage might 
be connected, as some newspaper stories indicate, with the subsequent 
death of Binaggio ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I doubt it very much. 

Mr. Halley. Had Binaggio during the campaign or had you during 
the campaign— let's take Binaggio first. Had he indicated that he 
thought that, if he won, he might get certain patronage in the police 
departments of St. Louis and Kansas City ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't know. I know he expected it in Kansas City. 
I don't think he expcted it in St. Louis. 

Mr. Halley. Well, let's see. Didn't Bill Molasky contribute 
$2,000 ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I read that in the newspaper, but I never heard or saw 
of the man until I read the article in the paper. 

Mr. Halley. You didn't know that ? 

]\Ir. NooisrAN. No. None of these contributions that I know about. 

Mr. Halley. When you say that Binaggio expected it in Kansas 
City, was that mentioned at various political meetings ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No ; it wasn't mentioned. Wliat I mean by that, you 
take it for granted if you have an organization and you have a primary 
and you win the primarj^, and your man is successful in the general 
election, and you are the head of a big faction in the city for the candi- 
date, you take it for granted. 

Mr. Halley. Who is this fellow Holzhausen ? 

Mr. NooNAN. "Wlio? 

Mr. Halley. H-o-l-z-h-a-u-s-e-n. 

Mr. NoOiSrAN. I have never heard the name before. 

Mr. Halley. You never heard that name ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't believe I have. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't he on the board of police commissioners in St. 
Louis ? 

Mr. Noon AN. Oh, Holzhausen ; yes. 

Mr. Halley. Who is he ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't know him, I just met him one time. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't he reputed to be the police commissioner up 
there who was the thorn in everybody's side and kept Binaggio from 
getting any patronage in St. Louis ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't know. I never heard that. I doubt very 
much that Binaggio was asking for any patronage in St. Louis. You 
have 28 wards in the city of St. Louis, with ward leaders. They are 
all scrambling for all the patronage they could get to keep their wards 
up. 

Mr. Halley. Wliat was Moore looking for in St. Louis ? Why do 
you think he was active politically ? 

]\Ir. NooxAjsr. I haven't the least idea. I know that Moore years 
ago was connected, you know, politically, with the courthouse in St. 
Louis. I don't know, the circuit clerk or one of those offices. They 
had a i^retty big office there at one time. 

Mr. Halley. You know Moore is one of the partners in the Hyde 
Park Club? 

Mr. Noon AN. I know it now. 

Mr. Halley. When did you not know it? 



330 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Ml*. NooNAN. When they were talking about his being in politics 
up there. 

Mr. Hali.ey. You mean in 1948 then you didn't know Moore was a 
partner in Hyde Park ? 

]Mr. NooNAN. He wasn't in the courthouse in 1948. I never met him 
until this primary. 

Mr. Halley. You are a practical politician, aren't you ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I have been successful. 

Mr. Hallet. a fellow like Moore isn't in it for love, he is look- 
ing for something, isn't he ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I never thought very many people in politics were 
not. 

Mr. Hallet. Moore's business is Hyde Park, a gambling business, 
is it not ? 

Mr. NooNAx. I gues it is. 

Mr. Halley. Isn't it a fact that Moore — Did you want to say some- 
thing? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes; but where would our Missouri Governor help 
Hyde Park? Isn't that in Illinois? 

Mr. Halj.ey. I was just going to get to that. Isn't it a fact that 
Moore and Wortman and the people who were interested in gambling 
in the St. Louis area were hopeful that as a result of obtaining pa- 
tronage after the election they would be allowed to operate on the 
Missouri side? 

Mr. NooNAN. Mr. Halley, I never heard that, any intimation of that 
in any way, shape, or form. 

]Mr. Halley. You never heard of anything like that before ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I thought and I gathered, not knowing a thing in 
the world about gambling, I thought those people were veiy success- 
ful and satisfied. 

Mr. Halley. Why do you think Charlie Binaggio was killed ? You 
were a very good friend of his and a close associate. 

Mr. NooxAx. Certainly I couldn't tell you. The police and nobody 
else seem to be able to find out. Those killings, those kind of people 
have their own methods of handling things, and I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Halley. What do you mean by those kind of people ? 

Mr. NooNAX. I mean Italian i^eople. 

Mr. Halley. Was Binaggio a different kind of people? 

Mr. NooxAX. He belonged to the Italian people. 

Mr. Halley. Do you think the Mafia had something to do with it? 

Mr. NooxAX. If I said "yes" I would be guessing. I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. Let's clearly call it a guess and ask you to guess, just 
to help this committee. This is just your best opinion. 

Mr. NooxAX. I really couldn't say. I don't know. There have been 
a lot of killings in this city in the last 10 or 12 years, and they haven't 
solved any of them. So somebody is doing it who is not very easy to 
catch. It seems that a certain element of people nobody seems to 
talk about. 

Mr. Halley. Wasn't there a conference held in your Jefferson City 
apartment about this fellow Holzliausen? 

Mr. NooxAN. A conference held about him? 

Mr. Halley. Yes; about the fact that he would not cooperate with 
the move to get some patronage for the administration. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE' 331 

Mr. NooNAx. Oh, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there were. You 
take, w'e liave some senators up there from St. Louis, all good friends 
of mine. They come down there. I know they were squawking their 
heads off about Holzhausen and went to the Governor and all because 
they couldn't get any patronage from him. 

Mr. Halley. Who were these senators who w^ere squawking? 

Mr. NooNAN. All of them I would say with the exception of Mike 
Kenny. Of course lie didn't have any 

Mr. Halley. Will you name some who were squawking? 

Mr. Noon an. I know well and good that — w^ell, I would say I can't 
call just exactly who they were or how they handled it, but I would 
say that Senator Hilsman didn't like it. He thought he was entitled to 
patronage up there. Senator Webbe 

Mr. Halley. You mean police department patronage ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. That is what you are talking about ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I imagine it was. That is why they would be talking- 
about Holzhausen. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Halley. I asked. I think, who some of the senators were wdio 
conferred in your apartment about Holzhausen. 

Mr. NooNAN. I believe I answered Senator Hilsman, Senator Webbe. 
I think they were the only two. 

Mr. Halley. No others? 

Mr. Nognan. No ; I don't believe there were any others, Mr. Halley.. 

Mr. Halley. Did you confer with anybody else about Holzhausen ? 

Mr. NooNAN. You heard a lot of people talking that he wouldn't 
work with anybody. 

Mr. Halley. Who talked about that ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I can't recall. Pretty nearly everybody, every ward 
leader in St. Louis I talked to about it. 

]\Ir. Halley. Did you talk to Binaggio about it ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. Halley. Did you talk to McKittrick about it? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't believe I did. I can't recall any kind of con- 
versation like that. I can't see where McKittrick would come into 
the picture. 

The Chairman. Anything further ? Mr. Noonan, let me ask you one 
or two questions now. Your home is here, and you have had various 
business operations through the years with Charlie Binaggio and 
some of his associates like Spitz and others? 

Mr. Noonan. Mostly politically. Senator. 

The Chairman. I mean you have had some business connections. 
They were your friends. 

Mr. Noonan. They were friendly, yes. 

The Chairman. You saw Binaggio rise to a certain amount of 
political power here in St. Louis. As of the time of the primary,, 
how many votes did he deliver, as we call it, in politics ? 

Mr. Noonan. In the primary election? 

Senator, I think we put down Binaggio between twenty-five and. 
thirty thousand in the primary. 

The Chairman. He had about 30,000 votes? 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 22 



332 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. NooNAN. I am talking about Binaggio witli his affiliates. Tliat 
would be Sermon, the mayor of Independence, and the Shannon 
organization here in Kansas City, the south side of Kansas City. 

The Chairman. A bunch of these groups were affiliated and he was 
the leader of the group? 

Mr. NooNAN. Each had an individual organization, you know. 

The Chairjvian. But they all came together with him ? 

Mr. NooNAN, They all affiliated with him. 

The Chairman, What were those organizations? Shannon 

Mr. NooNAN. Shannon's organization, and Mayor Roger Sermon 
of Independence, Mo. 

The Chairman. Gargotta and Spitz? 

Mr. NooNAN. They were understudies. They weren't organizations, 
you know. 

The Chairman. They were all part of the group. 

Mr. NooNAN. When you talk about Sermon, of Independence, he was 
the head of Jackson County, eastern Jackson County Democratic 
organization. Shannon had quite an organization built up in South 
Side Kansas City. Then McKissick has what we call the second ward 
in Kansas City, which is awfully big as a Democratic ward. Then 
Binaggio had the first ward. 

The Chairman. So that whole combine you put down for about 
30,000 votes ? 

Mr. NooNAN. 30,000 or 35,000; 

The Chairman. Or would you put him down alone for that amount? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

The Chairman. He was the biggest element in the group ? 

Mr. NooNAN, That is right, he was the biggest element. 

The Chairman. He was the leader of the combine. 

Mr, Noonan. That is right. 

The Chairman. On the other side of the combine where was the 
Pendergast ? 

Mr. Noonan. Pendergast was the other side, the opposition. 

The Chairman. How did the votes go in Kansas City ? In the first 
j)lace, how many voters would vote in a primary in this city ? 

Mr. Noonan. If I remember correctly I believe Smith won this pri- 
mary here, I wouldn't want to be positive of these figures, in the neigh- 
borhood of 15,000 majority. 

The Chairman. So Binaggio did get to be the biggest single ele- 
ment in the political picture in Kansas City. 

Mr. Noonan. There is no question about that. 

The Chairman. "Wlien did you get interested? You were his 
friend, you were working along with him and trying to further his 
interests ? 

Mr. Noonan. Senator, as far as Kansas City politics is concerned, 
since 1930, in that neighborhood, I have had no active part in Kansas 
City politics. I was with the Shannon organization for years and 
very active in the south side of town. In about 1930 I went to Shan- 
non to support a friend of mine for Senator and he said he made a 
deal with Pendergast for Charlie House. I split with him and, of 
course, I didn't join Pendergast. I just went out myself. I went out 
and supported my friend Bennett Clark against the Shannon and 
Penderirast combined organization and went out over the State. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 333 

Since that I have spent all my time on the State tickets, you know, the 
Democratic State ticket. I don't take any part in the city politics. _ 

The Chairman. So after the Shannon break you joined up with 
Binaggio pretty strongly? 

Mr. NooNAN. No, not — Binaggio at that time wasn't hardly heard 
of, you see, just down here in one little part of the north end of town. 
He kept getting stronger and stronger. The truth of the matter is 
he didn't become strong enough that you would pay any attention to 
him on a State-wide primary fight until this last primary fight. 

The Chairman. At that time he was good for thirty or thirty-five 
thousand votes, he and his associates ? 
Mr. NooNAN. Yes. I am estimating. 

The Chairman. You got interested then in the nomination of For- 
rest Smith ? 

Mr. XooNAN. Yes. 

The Chairman. When did you get interested in his nomination '( 
Mr. Noonan. Senator, in 1948. 
The Chairman. Did he run one time before? 
Mr. NooNAN. No, not for Governor. 
The Chairman. For something. 

Mr. NooNAN. You see, I believe it was in 1948 — he was right down 
here at Richmond, and he and I were very good friends. In 1928 he 
ran. That was the Al Smith campaign. Of course the whole State 
ticket was defeated in Missouri at that time. Then he ran the follow- 
ing election and was nominated and he was elected State auditor every 
time. I believe it was 16 years. 

The Chairman. So you were very much interested in his nomination 
for the Democratic primary and in the general election? 
Mr. Noon AN. That is right. 

The Chairman. AVhen he started running, you devoted your full 
time to his nomination ? 

Mr. Noon AN. That is right. 
The Chairman. Going all over the State ? 
Mr. NooNAN. That is right. 

The Chairman. Working for him in every way you could ? 
Mr. NooNAN. That is right. 

The Chairman. That meant you were in conference and in touch 
with him pretty often. 

Mr. Noonan. I was in touch with him ; yes. 
The Chairman. And with John Hendren ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Not so much with Hendren, Senator. He was in Jef- 
ferson City. In fact, during the primary I was in the Smith head- 
quarters in Jefferson City once, and after the primaries I didn't even 
knoAv where they had their State headquarters. I went out on my own. 
The Chairman. Of course Governor Smith asked you to go out and 
help him out. 

Mr. NooNAN. He w^as my personal friend for years and naturally I 
would. 

The Chairman. When you were figuring on how you would get him 
nominated you thought about Binaggio and all of his votes here. As 
a matter of fact, you took Binaggio over there to meet Governor Smith, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 



334 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMIMERCE 

The ChxURMan. You <>ot them together. 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes ; at the Phillips Hotel. 

The Chairman. In Jeti'erson City t 

Mr. Noon AN. No ; here in Kansas City. 

The Chairman. Smith was here and you got hold of Binaggio and 
took him up here? 

]Mr. NooNAN. That is right. 

The Chairman. The three of you talked things over together? 

Mr. NooNAN. I believe if I remember right now— I am not positive 
of this — I believe Henry McKissick was also with him and they came 
down together. 

The Chairman. Was it agreed that if Binaggio would put his 30,000 
or 35,000 votes in, Smith would remember him? 

Mr. Noonan. Well, yes. 

The Chairman. And recognize him over here as the leader ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Senator, I know you know a certain amount of politics. 

The Chairman. We are practical politicians. . 

Mr. NooNAN. That is it exactly, about what passed. 

The Chairman. I take it, looking at you and from what some of 
my friends say who have talked with you, that you are a good Irishman. 

Mr. NooNAN. I appreciate that very much. 

The Chairman, ao, just what took place in that conversation? 

Mr. Noonan. I couldn't tell you. That was pretty nearly a year 
before the primary. It was in the early part of the year of the pri- 
mary. I don't remember what took place in that, but I will say that 
surmising more than anything else, as we sat there. I don't believe 
they agreed at that first meeting. Binaggio said he and ]\IcKissick 
would have to take it up. He thought they would work it up and go 
for Smith; for Smith not to worry about it. 

The Chairman. When was the next meeting ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't remember the next meeting. I called that first 
meeting myself. 

The Chairman. When was the next time the three of you got to- 
gether ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't remember. 

The Chairman. Several times? 

INIr. NooNAN. We were together quite a few times ; yes. 

The Chairman. Eventually, then, was there an understanding that 
in reward for Binaggio's big block of votes over here he would be rec- 
ognized as the leader in this community of the Smith forces? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't remember that ever being put in those words, 
Senator, but it was taken for granted if you take your organization^ 
and we know you have the organization here, if you will go with me, 
as far as patronage is concerned, I will take care of you. 

The Senator. You don't know the exact words, but that was the 
understanding? 

Mr. NooNAN. That is generally always the understanding, and I 
am pretty sure it was here. 

The Chairman. So, after the election and Smith won the nomina- 
tion, after Binaggio came through in the primary campaign and the 
general election campaign, then it was generally understood here that 
he was the leader in this city anyway in State jDolitics, and he was 
going to have pretty much his way around here. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 335 

Mr. NooNAN. As far as patronage is concerned, I personally felt 
^-e owed it to him. We had asked him to support us, and he did, and 
I didn't hesitate a bit to think that the patronage coming here in 
Kansas City should go to Binaggio. 

The Chairman. You went over and told the Governor that, too? 

]\Ir. XooNAN. I wouldn't doubt it. 

The Chairman. So, the first thing that was done was that you got 
these two men, Milligan and Farrell, on the police commission. How 
was that worked out ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Senator, I will tell you about that. The newspapers 
distorted that an awful lot. Tuck Milligan is one of the closest life- 
long friends that Forrest Smith has. Tuck Milligan was right on the 
adjoining properties here in Rhea County. They were born and 
raised together. Smith ran for auditor and was elected time after 
time. At the same time Tuck was elected to Congress. I think Tuck 
was in Congress for 14 years. They were helping each other out. 
Both from the same district. 

The Chairman. That was a sort of personal appointment. 

IVIr. NooNAN. It was. 

The Chairman. But you did have in mind that he would go along 
with the program and recognize the organization? 

Mr. NooNAN. I did. I think so. 

The Chairman. Mr. Farrell, the manager of the Phillips Hotel, also 
advocated a wide-open city ? 

Mr. XooNAN. Yes; he did. He doesn't hesitate to tell you that he 
wanted a wide-open city. 

The Chairman. Wasn't it the understanding that after the election 
the city would be opened up ? That was what Binaggio wanted. 

Mr. NooNAN. If he wanted it, to my knowledge, there was no assur- 
rance ever given him of that. 

The Chairman. It was understood that is what he wanted. 

Mr, NooNAN. I imagine so. 

The Chairman. Wasn't that the reason Farrell was put on, because 
he advocated a wide-open city ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't believe so. You know, Senator, in a campaign 
Charlie Phillips was very active for Smith. His sons were very active. 
And Farrell, the manager of the hotel, was very active. They gave 
their headquarters. Mr. Phillips gave suites of rooms to the Gover- 
nor, which he always does for the Governor, President, or anybody 
like that. He also sets aside a suite of rooms when they are in Kan- 
sas City. He was very good to Smith. I understood he gave a con- 
tribution to it. Old Man Phillips— we call him "Old Man"— Charlie 
Phillips was more instrumental, I think, in having Farrell ap- 
pointed than any other one person. 

The Chairman. Mr. Noonan, about the first thing that Binaggio 
wanted, and you wanted also, was a change of the chief of police. 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. 

The Chairman. You wanted to get Johnson out. 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes. I didn't care who they put in. 

The Chairman. You went over to see the Governor about it, and 
you didn't seem to be able to get this fellow Johnson out, and Bin- 
aggio wanted him out and you wanted him out 



336 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't believe I did. Senator. If I said anything- 
to the Governor about it, I said I didn't think this man should be in 
there, and I had been trjdng in every way I could to take him out. 

The Chairihan. Did the Governor say he appointed the right 
fellows, and j^ou ought to work it out over there locally ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

The Chairman. What did he say about it ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I don't remember what he said. The truth of the 
matter is I don't know that I took the issue up with him. I know I 
felt like it, and I more than likely said something to him about it, 
because I did say to the commissioner I didn't think he belonged, 
there. 

The Chairman. You have an apartment over in Jefferson City? 

Mr. NooNAN. That is right. 

The Chairman. Missouri Apartment Hotel ; is that right ? 

Mr. NooNAN. It is an old house, built over. It is owned by tho 
Missouri 

The Chairman. When Binaggio would come over to Jefferson 
City, would he stay at your apartment? 

Mr. NooNAN. He has at times ; yes. 

The Chairman. You went all over the State and did all this work 
over a period of more than a year ; wasn't it ? 

Mr. Noonan. Yes. 

The Chairman. Finally, it would appear you got only about $1,400 
out of it? 

Mr. NooNAN. I didn't get $1,400 out of that. 

The Chairman. Was that not what you finally got? 

Mr. NooNAN. That was the following year, after it was over. 

The CHAIR.MAN. How did you get the $1,400? 

Mr. NooNAN. Just on commission. You see, I represent and have 
for 12 years, the Aetna Casualty Co. in Jefferson City. 

The Chairman. You were going to write bonds and what not? 

Mr. NooNAN. Bonds, contracts. I did write some official bonds, 
but most of them didn't come up that first year. They were hold- 
over appointments. 

The Chairman. All you got in commissions was $1,400. You 
didn't do very well. 

INIr. NooNAN. The truth of the matter is, Senator, I never have 
done very well financially. 

The Chairman. Wliat other investments did you have with 
Binaggio besides the ones you have talked about; any others? 

Mr. NooNAN. None that I remember. 

The Chairman. That is about all I wanted to ask you. 

Do you have anything, Mr. White? 

Mr. White. Do you know a man named Joe Matthews from St. 
Louis ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. White. Did you ever discuss the police situation with him? 

Mr. NooNAN. With him and for him and with the commissioners 
trying to get him appointed. 

Mr. White. You wanted to make him chief of police there ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. White. Wliat did you want ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Reinstated on the police department. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMJVIERCE 337 

Mr. "White. Did you know any other members of the Hyde Park 
Club or the partners of the Hyde Park Club, I should say, besides 
Gregory Moore ? 

Mr. NooxAN. I wouldn't know who they were. If you called their 
names, maybe I would know them. 

Mr. White. Of your own knowledge, you don't know of any 
other persons ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No. 

Mr. White. Did Matthews, to your knowledge, ever collect any 
money from St. Louis or East St. Louis area and bring it over to 
Jefferson City ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. White. Did you ever discuss with him the delivery of $30,000 
from Jefferson City to the Governor's office ? 

Mr. NooNxVN. No. 

Mr. White. That is all. 

The Chairman. You know Senator Hogan very well ; do you not ? 

Mr. NooNAN. Yes ; I know him. 

The Chairman. How about Senator Hogan ? Did he stay at your 
apartment ? 

Mr. NooNAN. No.; never. 

The Chairman. Is he the fellow who is supposed to have collected 
a lot of money ? 

Mr. NooNAN. I saw that in the newspaper here recently but I never 
heard of it. 

The Chairman. Does he brag about how much he got from the 
gamblers ? 

Mr. NooNAN, Senator, he is one who would brag about it if he 
thought it would get him a little attention or publicity. He is rather 
a loud-mouthed sort of fellow. 

The Chairman. Do you think he did or didn't ? 

Mr. NooNAN, I don't think he did. He is one of those kind. If 
you had a conference with him, in 30 minutes you would be disgusted 
and turn around and walk out. 

The Chairman. How old are you, Mr. Noonan ? 

Mr. Noonan. Sixty years old this September. 

The Chairman, Have you a family ? 

Mr. Noonan. Just my wife. 

The Chairman. All right. I think that is all we want to ask you, 
sir, and thank you. 

Mr. Noonan. Thank you, sir. 

The Chairman. Call Mr. Partnoy, please. 

Mr. Partnoy, do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give 
this committee will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SIMON PAETNOY, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. White. Will you tell us your full name, Mr. Partnoy? 
Mr. Partnoy. Simon Partnoy. 
Mr. White. Where do you live, sir? 
Mr. Partnoy. 5017 Wyandotte. 



338 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. White. Mr. Partnoy, can you tell me the story and the details 
of your employment with the Harmony News Service in the city of 
Kansas City? 

The Chairman. Harmony Publishing Co. 

Mr. White. Just tell us how you came in the business, what your 
arrangements were. 

Mr. Partnoy. First, I was wuth the Nationwide News Service as 
assistant manager and chief operator. They went out of business, I 
believe, in 1939. The manager at that time was Charles Haughton. 
He is deceased now. He was very sick at that time. So, when the 
Nationwide News Service was discontinued, Chicago called me — 
Mr. Ragen did — and he said : "Well, we will start again. You go and 
make arrangements for everything, and we will have a new deal. This 
will be your company down here. It will be better for everybody." 
So I went to the Western Union. They never sent me anything. I 
went to the Western Union and I paid them a $1,500 deposit out of my 
own pocket and made arrangements for telephones and all the other 
equipment. When we started in operation again, it was practically 
the same subscribers that we had under Nationwide. I knew them. 
When it came time for me to remit to them, he said, "They told me 
there in Chicago that we would have to go on and be under a kind of 
drawing account until the good offices would take care of the bad 
offices until they got started." 

Mr. White. Let me interrupt you you at this point, Mr. Partnoy. 
Wlio told you that? 

Mr. Partnoy. Mr. Ragen. 

Mr. White. What was the name of the Chicago service at that 
time, the home office ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Continental Press. 

Mr. White. How many customers had Nationwide, which I assume 
is a distributor of Continental Press information in the Kansas City 
area? How many customers did you have at the time when you 
started ? 

Mr. Partnoy. It is pretty hard to say. We had about 8 or 9 
customers on the ticker and about 8 or 9 or 10 customers on the 
telephone. 

Mr. White. Was there any competing news service at that time? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir. 

Mr. White. What territory did you serve ? 

j\Ir. Partnoy. I took care of the west half of Missouri, Kansas, 
Nebraska, Iowa, and Oklahoma. 

Mr. White. You had a total of less than 20 customers in that whole 
territory ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Something like that; yes. 

Mr. White. No other news service available? 

Mr. Partnoy. No. 

Mr. White. What were you charginp; most of those customers? 

Mr. Partnoy. Well, different rates, whatever I could get out of them. 

Mr. White. What was the most you could get out of them? 

Mr. Partnoy. For instance, Omaha, I think they paid as high as 
$600. 

Mr. White. A week ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. Tulsa paid as high as $400. Wichita 
I believe was around $200. ' Des Moines we got at times $300 out of. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 339 

Mr. White. This was about the year 1939 ? 

Mr. Partnoy. It wasn't exactly that. I am mistaken there. There 
was — I think at the time the Government — either it was in 1939 or 
1940 — that the Government was charging that there was a lottery. 
Kight after the lottery charges were dismissed, that is when I went 
to Western Union and we resumed our out-of-town business. 

Mr. White. For a short period of time you discontinued your oper- 
ations ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right, and then it started up — I think it was 
Judge Holly's decision that it wasn't a lottery. 

Mr. White. So in 1940, at any rate, you resumed services as the 
manager and chief operator of the Nationwide 

Mr. Partnoy. No, I was the owner of the Harmony Publishing Co. 

Mr. White. I am talking about before the change-over. When did 
you take Harmony? When did the change-over occur? 

Mr. Partnoy. 1 think when it first started we called it the Eagle 
scratch sheet. 

Mr. White. What year was that ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think that must have been right after 1939. 

Mr. White, That was when you were in business for yourself for 
the first time ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. WnrrE. Prior to that time you had been a salaried employee ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Of the Nationwide. 

Mr. White. Which was a local distributing service. 

Mr. Partnoy. Aiid out-of-town service. 

Mr. White. And out-of-town service. 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. Receiving news from Continental Press ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, before that it was receiving it from Nationwide. 
This office was just a branch office of the Nationwide. 

Mr. White. Which was one of Annenberg's original ventures? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. After Annenberg went to the penitentiary, Ragen took 
it over and it became Continental Press; is that correct? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think that was right. 

Mr. White. That was about in 19 

Mr. Partnoy. I think it was about a week or so right afterward. 
That is when I started on this telephone service. 

Mr. White. I just want to bring us up to date. Wlien you started 
receiving Ragen's news, you were no longer a salaried employee? 

Mr. Partnoy. I was on a drawing account. The understanding 
at the time was that this would be my office here, and I did start 
everything in my name, and I was going to get a better deal than 
there had been with the Nationwide. 

Mr. White. Didn't you hold the franchise of the Chicago News 
Service in this area ? Didn't you purchase and inherit and have the 
knowledge to operate your own venture here ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. Don't you recall that about that time after Annenberg's 
departure from the racing business that Ragen announced publicly 
and otherwise that no longer would the Continental press try to con- 
trol the outlets of their information, but that they would sell it to all 



340 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

comers at any price and tliey would have distributors with independent 
operators in the field? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't know that he made that announcement or 
not, but that is the way I understood it was going to be. 

Mr. White. That is right. Didn't Ragen also tell you that you 
Avould have to have some sort of printing enterprise in conjunction 
with this so that you could classify yourself as a publisher ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. That was the reason for starting the Eagle scratch 
sheet ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. But in spite of this you claim that you were still a 
salaried employee and not a free agent? 

Mr. Parton. I was on a drawing account yet. I thought the 
arrangements originally were that I was going to have it and pay 
them so much a week for it and the rest would be my profits here, or 
I wouldn't have taken my own money and made it as a deposit. 

Mr. White. What were you paying Ragen for the information at 
that time ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think it was about $125 a week and expenses, and 
the rest of it I was remitting to them. 

Mr. White. You were actually paying Ragen $125 a week? 

The Chairman. That was what he was getting. 

Mr. Partnoy. I was deducting my drawing account, which was 
allowed. I imagine it was about $115 or $125 a week. 

Mr. White. In other words, you were still a salaried employee of 
Ragen. 

Mr. Partnoy. In a way; yes. I wasn't supposed to be. He just 
told me that until they got started. 

Mr. White. Did that picture ever change as far as you and Ragen 
were concerned? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, it didn't. That is the reason why I thought they 
did me wrong there. 

The Chairman. How much did you remit? How much was the 
usual remittance to Ragen? You kept $125 a week. 

Mr. Partnoy. It would be around $1,500 a week when we had the 
out-of-town business, something like that. 

Mr. White. How much a week ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Around $1,500. 

Mr. White. That you w^ould send to Chicago ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. For a while I sent it to St. Louis, 
the Missouri Publishing Co. there. I imagine he sent it to Continen- 
tal Press. 

Mr. White. During this period was it a part of your function there 
to solicit customers to see that they got the service and to set the price 
on what you would charge for that service ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. In addition to that you also purchased certain equip- 
ment necessary to operate the service ? 

IVIr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. And you put up, what was it, a deposit with Western 
Union ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right ; $1,500. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 341 

Mr. White. What was the purpose of the deposit ? 

Mr. Partnot. I put a deposit up there to get the ticker machine 
that we relayed out of Kansas City. They afterward refunded that 
to me. 

Mr. White. You paid the telegraph toll charges and the telephone 
charges out of the receipts from the bookmakers? 

]Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

]Mr. White. What check did Ragen and Continental Press have on 
Tou to know that you were giving them their proper cut in this matter ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I guess they either took my word for it or they prob- 
ably — they had that man in St. Louis, who used to come down every 
once in a while. 

Mr. White. Who was that ? 

Mr. Partnoy. A fellow named Lynch, Bill Lynch. 

Mr. White. "WHiat would he do when he came down ? 

Mr. Partnoy. He would come down here and go over the subscribers 
with me and things like that. 

Mr. White. Was Lynch from Pioneer News Service in St. Louis? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, he had no connection w^ith them. He was work- 
ing with the Continental Press. That lasted there for a while. Then 
I used to remit right direct to the Continental Press. 

Mr. White. I am interested in Lynch. TVlio was Lynch and what 
was his function with respect to Continental. 

Mr. Partnoy. He was a kind of middle man between me and the 
•Continental Press. 

Mr. White. Did Lynch ever collect the moneys from you ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I used to remit to him. 

The Chairman. Was the name of his company the 

Mr. Partnoy. It was the Missouri Publishing Co. 

Mr. White. Was he sort of field inspector, you might say, for 
Continental ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. How long did he stay in that position in relation to 

TOU? 

Mr. Partnoy. I imagine it was a couple of years. 

Mr. White. From about 1940 to 1942 he exercised some sort of 
supervision over you ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I couldn't tell exactly but it was a couple of years. 

Mr. White. During this time, say from 1940 up until about 1946 or 
1947, were your customers coming and going, that is, one day you 
would get some new customers and the next day you would lose some 
<:ustomers ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is possible ; yes. 

Mr. White. The police would raid a place and you would lose a 
customer there but somebody else would spring up in another location ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. In each instance it was your duty to fix the charge for 
the service to those people ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. What did you base that charge on ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Generally the last part was getting $108 a week for 
the service locally. 

Mr. White. "Wlien did you cut out your interstate features of 
Harmony ? 



342 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Partnoy. When I went with the Continental Press we kept 
it up until I went away from the Continental Press and went in with 
Eddie Spitz. I think that was in 1946, 1 think the fall. 

Mr. White. Apparently part of the deal with the so-called Trans- 
America service was that you wouldn't operate out of your immediate 
territory. 

JSIr. Partnoy. That is right, 

]Mr. White. Did your change-over from Continental to Trans- 
America coincide with the death of Eagen ? 

Mr. Partnoy. It was after Eagen died. 

Mr. White. Immediately after? 

]\Ir. Partnoy. It wasn't very long afterward. 

Mr. White. Was there some connection between his death and your 
change-over, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Ragen. No, sir ; not a bit. 

Mr. White. That was in about 1947 that Ragen was shot, wasn't it ? 

i\Ir. Partnoy, I imagine it was a month or two after I went with 
Spitz. I imagine it was in 1946. 

Mr. White. Ragen was still alive when you went over to Trans- 
America ? 

]Mr. Partnoy. No, He was dead. I am pretty sure he was. 

Mr. White. You said a month or two after you went over with 
Spitz. 

Mr. Partnoy. I mean a month or two after Ragen's death I went 
over, 

Mr. White. At any time during that 6-year period was there any 
change in your business arrangements and your financial arrange- 
ment with Ragen and Continental Press ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No. I tried many times, but he kept on telling me 
that they are just not making anything, that they are having trouble 
all over the country, 

Mr, White. He was making $1,500 a week off you, was he not ? 

Mr. Partnoy. But he was telling me that the good offices, consider- 
ing Kansas City a good office, had to pay for the bad offices. That 
is one reason why I went over with Spitz. 

Mr. White. Did you try to check up and verify his statement ? Did 
you accept his word at face value ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I couldn't check up on anything like that. After all, 
T am just in the territory. I am just a cog in the wheel there. 

Mr. White. Did you have a contract with Ragen of any kind ? 

JSIr. Partnoy. No contract, just all verbal. 

Mr. White. When you took over the business then and invested 
your money, you must have had a contract of some kind or other • 

Mi\ Partnoy. Just verbal. I just took his word for it. 

Mr. White. At any rate you had the customers and that was the im- 
portant thing, wasn't it ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. Didn't you feel you were justified in holding out as 
much of the receipts from the customers as you cared to? 

Mr. Partnoy. After all he could have shut me off and I wouldn't 
have anything. At that time what I was getting from my drawing 
account was pretty good money. 

Mr. White. Did 3^ou ever talk to Ragen personally ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 343 

Mr. White. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Partnoy, I was up there once during the Annenberg case. I 
was a witness in the Annenberg case there. He went through here 
once and I saw him. I had hnich with him at a hoteL 

Mr. White. When j^ou took over the service here and invested your 
money, didn't you feel that it was necessavy to have some definite un- 
derstanding or some binding agreement that would protect your in- 
vestment ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I thought I was just taking his word for it. After 
all, I was in that kind of business for a good many years and I thought 
at the time his word was good. 

Mr. White. Then I gather that you received $125 a week as your 
salary ? 

Mr. Partnoy. It was practically just like a salary, but it was sup- 
posed to have been my drawing account. 

Mr. White. What is the difference between a salary and a drawing 
account so far as you were concerned ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't know. As far as I was concerned there was 
no difference. It was just the idea 

Mr. White. Except that you could pay yourself out of the receipts. 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. Did you have any bonus at the end of the year? 

Mr. Partnoy. I could deduct my income tax from it. 

Mr. White. Did you get any percentage of your net receipts? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir. 

Mr. White. Was there any particular incentive for you to solicit 
new business or to charge a higher rate for the service? 

Mr. Partnoy. The idea is, if I didn't produce here I wouldn't be here 
very much with them. They probably would get somebody else to 
replace me. 

Mr. White. Then around 1947, about 2 months after Kagen was 
killed, you changed over from Continental to Trans-America. 

Mr. Partnoy. I went on through Eddie Spitz, of course. 

Mr. White. Tell me what Edclie Spitz said to you and what you 
said to him with respect to your employment with Trans- America. 

]Mr. Partnoy. He came to me and he said that he was able to get 
the Trans- America News Service franchise. 

Mr. White. Did he say how? 

Mr. Partnoy. No. He said he was able to get it and wanted to know 
if I was interested. I said 'T am interested in anything that will make 
me more money." I explained what Continental had promised me. 
He agreed to pay me $200 a week plus 15-percent commission and 
also $7,500 if I would go over to him, in three payments, which he did. 
I was getting this $200 a week, plus a 15-percent commission until 
the Trans- America went out of business. 

Mr. White. When did Trans- America go out of business? 

Mr. Partnoy. I believe it was in 1947. 

Mr. White. How long had Trans-America been in business at the 
time you became eniplo}' ed by Spitz ? 

Mr. Partnoy. It was a new company. I had seen it in the news- 
paper, I think the Chicago papers, that there was a competitive news 
service. 

Mr. White. Who did you understand was back of that ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Pat Burns. 



344 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

j\Ir. White. Who else? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't remember. I know his son was in there too. 
I don't know wlio was in back of that. 

]Mr. White. Then you continued to work for Trans-America for 
about 2 months, and then Ragen was killed and then 

Mr. Partnoy. No, no. X think Ragen was killed before I went to 
the Trans-America — I mean Eddie Spitz. 

Mr. White. But after you had been to work for Trans-America 
about 2 months, then did j^ou go back to Continental or did the service 
just change? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think it was longer than 2 months that I was with 
them that Trans- America went out of business. 

Mr. White. How long was it ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I would say 5 to 6 montlis. 

Mr. White. Did you use the same offices that you had used when 
you were working for Continental ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. All you did was to pipe a different kind of service into 
your distributing system ? 

Mr. Partnoy. jSo. We had a ticker, a Western Union ticker that 
we used to receive the information from the Continental Press. That 
same ticker — the Trans- America must have had a lease — I know they 
had a lease and that was changed over to their wires, cut in on their 
wires. Then when the Trans-America went out of business we got 
a notification on the machine that effective Saturday the service would 
be discontinued. So I called Eddie Spitz up and he came down to 
the office. I showed him that little piece on the tape there. I saidy 
"It looks like they are all done with." So he came to me and said, 
"Maybe you had better try to get it from the other people." He 
said, "Do you know any of them?" I said, "Well, I knew one fellow 
there. I wouldn't try to call him myself because they probably are 
sore at me for going over with you and the Trans- America." So I 
told him Mr. Eddie Lenz' name. You can get the information from 
him. So he called Eddie Lenz and without us losing any time at all 
we were cut in on the Mid-West Illinois News Service wire. 

The Chairman. This was a Continental subdistributor out of 
Chicago, was it not ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't know. I know when I remitted I remitted 
to the Mid-West Illinois, but it is the same kind of service that they 
put out. 

The Chairman. But the arrangements were made with Mr. Lenz 
who was then an official of Continental, weren't they ? 

Mr. Partnoy. 1 don't know what he was doing there. 

The Chairjman. Is that not why you told Spitz to call him ? 

Mv. Partnoy. He called him at that office that 1 gave him ; yes. 

The Chairman. At the Continental office? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes; that is right. 

The Chairman. As a result of that call you got an office still over 
the same line, but this time named Mid-West Illinois News Service? 
Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

The Chairman. The machine never left the location ? 
Mr. Partnoy. No, sir. 

The Chairman. The only difference in the service was the label on 
the ticker tape. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 345 

Mr, Partnoy. The Western Union had to cut us in. They had to 
get a lease there with different lessees. 

Mr. White. When this new arrangement started, was Spitz and his 
associates employees of Continental as you had been before? 

Mr. Partnot.I only knew Spitz. His associates I found out later 
through newspapers since the trouble here. But my business was 
always with Mr. Spitz. 

Mr. White. So far as you were concerned, the news-distribution 
agency here was no longer in the role of an agency of the Chicago 
olHce. " It was an independent operator ? 

]\fr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. Didn't you think it was strange that Spitz a newcomer 
to this business, not knowing anybody in the business, could get the 
franchise for himself and make all of this money for himself and his 
associates, whereas you worked for 6 or 7 years on a $125 a week 
salary ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I worked indirectly longer than that for them. 

Mr. White. What is your explanation of your working on a salary 
basis ? 

Mr. Partnoy. He probably either had influence some place or was 
able to negotiate something. 

Mr. White. What do you mean by influence some place? What 
kind of influence ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't think the people would give a franchise like 
that unless he had some kind of influence some place. That is 
my thinking now. He said he could get the franchise and he did. 

j\Ir. White. Wasn't it pretty obvious to you that the whole opera- 
tion of Trans- America News Service was merely a scheme to change 
the ownership and control of these local franchises to a different part- 
nership or control ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, it wasn't, not to me it wasn't. 

Mr. White. Didn't you think it was curious that Mr. Spitz and 
some other fairly well known hoodlums suddenly 

Mr. Partnoy. To me at that time there wasn't anybody I knew con- 
nected with the business but Spitz. 

Mr. White. You know it now. What do you think about it now ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I just have a different version of it now. There must 
have been some political influence somewhere, not political, some in- 
fluence some place that they were able to get it. How they got it I 
don't know. 

Mr. White. I would like to have your opinion on it. You are an 
expert. You have been in this business and around it for a good many 
years. We honestly would like to know what was behind. that change- 
over. 

Mr. Partnoy. I couldn't say what was behind the change-over. All 
I know is that is was changed over. The details of how it was ac- 
complished Spitz never told me. I never asked him. I know it was 
done. In my opinion — of course I have been reading the papers and 
everything, and the way it looks, there was some kind of influence. 
He must have known somebody some place. 

Mr. White. Did you receive the $7,500 payment in one chunk? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir ; three payments of $2,500 each. 

Mr. White. Over what period of time ? 

Mr. Partnoy. About 3 years. 



346 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. White. If I said it would appear that the net profit of the 
Mo-Kan Co. or the Universal, the successor to Harmony, was around 
$45,000 for the j^ear 1947, would you think this was a fair figure ? 

Mr. Partxot. I wouldn't want to say anything until I took a good 
look at my books to refresh my memory. The books absolutely have 
all that information. 

Mr. White. As a rough guess, would you say that was about right? 

Mr. Partnoy. Wliat year are you talking about ? 

Mr. White. 1947. 

Mr. Partnoy. In 1947 I think it was — I don't know, probably 
around $25,000, around in there. I don't believe it was that much. 
I couldn't say 

Mr. White. According to the returns it was $45,000. 

Mr. Partnoy. Whatever my books show is exactly what it was. 

Mr. White. You so claimed as a deduction a loss resulting from 
your sale of the franchise, did you not ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Well 

The Cpiairman. Let's get it out. 

Mr. White. We don't have it, sir. 

Mr. Partnoy. The accountant made it out. Wliatever he made 
out 

Mr. White. I am not questioning the accuracy of the figure. The 
only thing I am trying to understand is how you could sell the fran- 
chise that 3^ou actually didn't own. What did you give for your 
$7,500? 

Mr. Partnoy. I had the office, the equipment, the telephones were 
in my name. 

Mr. White. You didn't own the office." You rented that. 

Mr. Partnoy. I rented it but it was still in my name. It was all 
set up. The telephones which were precious at the time were in my 
name. The machine, the ticker, the contract, was in my name. 

Mr. White. Contract with whom? 

Mr. Partnoy. Western Union for the ticker going to these towns. 
I knew these customers. In other words, it was all set up to make 
money from the start. 

Mr. White. It was a going concern. 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

Mr. White. Of your own knowledge you have no idea why j^ou 
were forced to work as an employee as a local distributor here, in 
spite of promises that you would become an independent operator, and 
why Spitz and his partners could overnight become such an inde- 
pendent operation ? 

Mr. Partnoy. They were able — it was a different company. It 
wasn't with the same people, the Continental Press. 

Mr. White. All except for 2 or 3 months. They switched over to 
Trans-America and then they went back to Continental and every- 
thing was all right. 

Mr. Partnoy. When they went back to Mid-West, they took the 
out-of-town business away from them. We were operating locally 
for a good many years afterward. 

Mr. White. Incidentally, during the time that you were working 
for Continental, did Ragen or anybody else ever tell you how much 
to charge customers? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 347 

Mr. White. Did they ever suggest that charges should be based on 
the number of phones that they had ? 

Mr. Partnoy, They never interfered or looked into any business. 1 
always conducted this office in Kansas City as nearly as a legitimate 
business as a person could conduct it. 

Mr. White. I am sure of that, but I am trying to find out whether 
or not Ragen told you as his agent how much to charge the individual 
customers of the company. 

Mr. Partnoy. No ; I just charged them by experience in this kind of 
business. I sometimes would go around when it was out-of-town busi- 
ness, I would travel a little bit, and I would meet them, naturally, and 
T would find out if they could pay more. 

Mr. White. Take in the case of Omaha for example. Did you ever 
suddenly decide that a place which had been paying $300 a week, was 
now doing such a business that they should be paying $500 a week? 

Mr. Partnoy. Omaha was distributing service to people in Omaha, 
just like we were here. When I would go down there, I would talk to 
him, if his gross wasn't any more, and see if he could pay more. 

Mr. White, Did you look at his books ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I never looked at anybody's books in my life. 

Mr. White. Did you take his word for it ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Did you ever try to raise the price on someone and 
have them complain to the Chicago office and as a result receive some 
instructions in that regard from Ragen ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes, sir ; that happened once. 

Mr. White. What was that occasion ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I was taking care of Milwaukee, Wis., at that time. 
They had some trouble in Illinois. So they hooked that on to mine. 
That fellow in Milwaukee, I think it was Lynch, told me he ought 
to be paying more. He was paying I believe $216. 

Mr. White. Who told you that ; Lynch ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Lynch, of St. Louis, told me that. 

Mr. White. Of Continental? 

Mr. Partnoy. Of the Missouri Publishing Co., which was prac- 
tically the same as Continental, told me he was paying only $216, and 
let's get a raise out of him. So I called him on the phone. I think 
his name was Louis Simon, or something like that. I told him that 
we ought to have some more money there. Afterward I got a phone 
call, I believe from Lynch, telling me to leave him alone. 

Mr. White. When you started to work for Trans-America and 
when you sold your assets to them 

Mr. Partnoy. I didn't sell it to Trans- America. 

Mr. White. Excuse me, to Spitz, et al., you sold them a property 
that they could start operating immediately. 

Mr. Partnoy. That was actually in operation. 

Mr. White. Did you or any of the partners then go out and try to 
solicit more business ? 

Mr. Partnoy. xit that time when we went over to Trans-America, 
the Mid-West Illinois was going around to my subscribers and trying 
to take them away from us. 

Mr. White. Who was that? Who was representine; Mid-West 
Illinois? 

68958 — 51— pt. 4a 23 



348 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE ' 

Mr. Partnoy. Eddie Lenz was one of them. 

Mr. White. Who else ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think there was a fellow named McLaughlin. 

Mr. White. Do you know his first name ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think it is Lester, Lester McLaughlin. 

Mr. White. Anybody else? 

Mr. Partnoy. They had a few more who were going around to 
every one of my subscribers and trying to take them away from us. 

Mr. White. In other words, Continental didn't stop when you went 
over to Trans-America. Continental or Mid- West came in here. Did 
they put another man in the office in your place ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No. It was my office here. 

Mr. White. Did they set up another office somewhere ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No ; they didn't set up an office here, but they in fact 
called every one of the subscribers in my territory here and tried to 
get them to take their service instead of the ones that I was connected 
with. And did succeed in Tulsa. We got word that the fellow in 
Omaha was going to switch over to them. I think Eddie went down— 
I think he went to Tulsa and he also went to Omaha. 

Mr. White. Eddie Spitz? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes. That is right. 

Mr. White. Did he return with his mission accomplished? 

Mr. Partnoy. We had a machine; there were two services in Tulsa. 
It was our service and the Mid-West's. 

Mr. WurrE. Why did they take both services ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Because it was two different parties there. 

Mr. White. I see. The same place wasn't taking both services. 

Mr. Partnoy. Not that I know of. 

Mr. White. Do you know of any customers in this area or any other 
area who are taking both services? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't recall any ; no. Oh, j^es, I do. 

Mr. White. Who is that ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think that man in St. Joseph did for a while. 

Mr. White. He did take that because he was afraid to drop either 
of them? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't know why he would be afraid. I know I 
never threatened anybody. I am not that type. 

Mr. White. You had some pretty tough characters as your 

Mr. Partnoy. The only one I know, Eddie Spitz, is the only one 
that was with me ; who was with him I don't know. They never had 
anything to do with the service. I had an understanding Avhen I went 
Avith Spitz that I was to run the service the same way I always ran it. 

Mr. White. That is all. 

The Chairman. It may be that Mr. "White would like to talk with 
you some more about this matter, and we would appreciate your co- 
operation. I want to get just one or two things that I did not get 
clear as yet. 

I wanted to get a list of customers. What was the name of the last 
operation that you o])erated? 

INIr. Partxoy. It was on May 2. I think Mr. Goldschein has it 

The Chairman. What was the name of the company? 

Mr. Partnoy. Standard Distributing Co. 

The Chairman. Where is the list of the people you were selling to? 

Mr. Partnoy, I think Mr. Goldscliein has the records. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 349 

The Chairman. Would it be all right if we can secure the list? 
How many customers did you have when you quit? 

Mr. Partnoy. I think about eight of them. 

The Chaiemax. Read them out, will you ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't have it here. 

The Chairman, You know who they are. 

Mr. Partnoy. I know some of them. 

The Chairman. Give us the names of your customers. They paid 
you big money. You know who thej^ are. 

Mr. Partnoy. There was Kellerman. . ^ 

The Chairman. Where is he ? 

Mr. Partxoy. Where is he located ? I don't know the locations of 
any of them. 

The Chairman. What is the first name ? 

Mr. Partnoy. John F. Kellerman. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Partnoy. There is Rosenberg, some brothers, Rosenberg Bros. 

The Chairman. All right, where do the^^ operate? 

Mr. Partnoy. I wouldn't know. I didn't know the operation of 
any of them because they used to call us. 

The Chairman. Give us all the names now. 

Mr. Partnoy. There was Dave Kramer. Dread Finnell. There 
was Schools. 

The Chairman. What is the first name ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Joe and Mike Schools. 

Mr. White. Louis Schools ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't know. 

The Chairman. Wlio else ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is all I can recall now. 

The Chairman. You can think of the others. Who else? 

Mr. Partxoy. That is about all I can think of now. I would have 
to have my records to look them over. Then I could tell you. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Tigerman ? 

Mr. Partxoy. Oh, yes. Tigerman — Joe Tigerman. 

The Chairmax. Do you think of an}' others ? They were your eight 
Western Union customers ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Telephone customers. 

The Chairman. Didn't you have some who had ticker service? 

Mr. Partnoy. We haven't had any ticker service since 1947. This 
was all telephone service. 

The Chairman, The last name of the concern was the Standard 
News Service? 

]Mr. Partnoy. The Standard Distributing Co. 

The Chairman. Let's see if I have it lined up right. You first 
started out as the Eagle Scratch Sheet back in 1939 when you talked 
to Mr. Ragen. 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

The Chairman. Then you got $125 a week drawing allowance.. 
You got that right on up until the time you went in with Spitz; is 
that right ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right, plus expenses. 

The Chairman. Did you get any bonuses or anything? 

Mr. Partnoy. At the end of the year, whatever my income tax was, 
I used to deduct that. 



350 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

The Chairman. Deduct what? 

Mr. Partnoy. My income tax as an expense. 

The Chairman. Then did Mr. Ragen send people down to look over 
your records to see if you kept them properly ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I guess it was the regular routine that this man from 
St. Louis came clown. 

The Chairman. After that man from St. Louis quit, did he send 
somebody around ? 

Mr. Partnoy. They never looked at my records. They would just 
go over it with my customers. I used to send them a report every 
week. 

The Chairman. About how much you were receiving ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes ; that is right ; and my expenses. 
_ The Chairman. You sent that to Continental Press ? 

Mr. Partnoy. In Cleveland at the time. 

The Chairman. That is where the office was, but the wire came from 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

The Chairman. That went on until you went in with Spitz and then 
he had the Trans- America service ? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

The Chairman. About 5 or 6 months afterward the Trans- America 
service went out of business and you got back on Continental ? 

Mr. Partnoy. It was the Mid-West Illinois, which is probably the 
same kind of service, anyway. 

The Chairman. Did you continue on with the Mid-West Illinois or 
Continental ? 

Mr. Partnoy. The Mid- West Illinois, we got a letter of some kind 
from hereafter to remit to the General News Service Bureau. We re- 
mitted there. I remitted there until the time we closed up. 

The Chairman. That was Continental, too, was it not? 

Mr. Partnoy. It was the same kind of service. Whether it was Con- 
tinental, I wouldn't know. 

Mr. White. You were dealing with the same people all during this 
period, were you not ? 

Mr. Partnoy. The same people. The inside dealings, Spitz made 
that when I went over there. 

The Chairman. I know, but who did you talk with in Chicago? 
The same people all the way ? 

Mr. Partnoy. We didn't talk to them. 

The Chairman. I know, this man who called you about Wisconsin. 
Wliat is his name ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Bill Lynch. That was when I was with Continental ; 
yes. 

The Chairman. You dealt with the same people ever since you went 
back with Continental ; whatever the name of the company has been, 
you have been getting the same service? 

Mr. Partnoy. The same kind of service all the time ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And dealing with the same people ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No. There are some new ones who come in once in a 
while. 

The Chairman. I know, but it is the same office you are dealing with. 

Mr. Partnoy. To my knowledge it would be. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 351 

The Chairman. Mr. Partnoy, are you a native of Kansas City? 

Mr. Partnoy. That is right. 

The Chairman. How did you get your start in this sort of business ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I was a telegraph operator and I went to work for 
them in 1923, the General News Bureau. 

The Chairman. Have you ever had any dealings with Charles 
Binaggio ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Have you ever been convicted of anything ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Arrested? 

Mr. Partnoy. No, sir; I was arrested once in Kansas City, Kans. 
We had a place over in the Grund Hotel. 

The Chairman. For bookmaking or wliat ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No; just for the wire service. That was during 
the time that the 

The Chairman. Wlio is supplying the bookmakers here in Kansas 
City now ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I don't know. I have severed all connections. I 
have my own company now, selling Venetian blinds and window 
shades. 

The Chairman. You have gone out of the business ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Sold your equipment ? 

Mr. Partnoy. No. Eddie Spitz has the equipment. He took it 
up to his garage. 

The Chairman. As far as you know, since this court order there is 
no wire service here? 

IMr. Partnoy. As far as I know. I have never been in position to 
find out because I am interested in another business now. 

The Chairman. You have gone into another business. All right, 
Mr. Partnoy, that is all. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. n ALLEY. I have just one question, Mr. Partnoy. Wliile you 
were operating with Spitz did your customers come to your office to 
pay or did you go to their place ? 

Mr. Partnoy. I never went to any of the places. Some of them 
would bring it up to our office and sometimes we would pick it up 
at the newsstands where we delivered the scratch sheet that we put out. 

Mr. Halley. Did they pay in cash or by check ? 

Mr. Partnoy. Cash. 

Mr. Halley. Always? 

]\Ir. Partnoy. Practically always. Except when we were doing 
out-of-town business they would remit by cashier's check. 

Mr. Halley. Thank you. 

The Chaieman. The committee will stand in recess until 9 o'clock 
in the morning. 

("\"\niereupon, at 8 : 0.5 p. m., the committee recessed until 9 a. m., 
Thursday, July 20, 1950.) 



INVESTIGATION OF ORGANIZED CEIME IN INTERSTATE 

COMMERCE 



THURSDAY, JULY 20, 1950 

United States Senate, 
Special Committee To Investigate 
Organized Crime in Interstate Commerce, 

Kansas Clty^ Mo. 

EXECUTIVE session 

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 9 a. m., in court room 
No. 3, United States Courthouse, Kansas City, Mo., Senator Estes 
Kefauver (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Senators Kefauver and Tobey. 

Also present: Kudolph Halley, chief counsel; George H. White 
and John N. McCormick, investigators. 

James W. Connors, St. Louis Crime Commission. 

Max H. Goldschein, special assistant to the Attorney General. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Who do you wish to call first ? 

Mr. Halley. We would call first Mr. Farrell, the former police 
commissioner. 

(No response.) 

Mr. Halley. Call Mr. ^IcKissick. 

The Chairman. Mr. ISIcKissick, do you solemnly swear the testi- 
mony you will give this committee will be the whole truth and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HENRY McKISSICK, KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Goldschein. What is your full name ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Henry McKissick, 

Mr. Goldschein. Where do you live ? 

]Mr. IMcKissiCK. 7304 Washington. 

Mr. Goldschein. Are you a native of the State of Missouri ? 

Mr. McKissick. I have been here about 48 years ; since I was 4 years 
old. 

Mr. Goldschein. Where were you born? 

Mr. jMcKissick. Williamsburg, Kans. 

Mr. Goldschein. What is your business? What business do you 
follow? 

Mr. McKissick. Saloon business. 

Mr. Goldschein. Do you have any other type of business ? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. 

353 



354 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COIVIIVIERCE 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. What is the name of your saloon ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. The Jewel Box. 

Mr. Goij)scHEiN. Where is that located ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. 3322 Troost. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". You are engaged in the gambling business or 
racket ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Never at any time ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you have any interest in any gambling opera- 
tion ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. None whatsoever. 

IVIr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did j^ou know" Charlie Binaggio ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. How well did you know him ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I knew him about 4 or 5 years. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. Wliat was your connection with Binaggio ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I took over the leadership of the Fifteenth Street 
Democratic organization there when our leader died. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". Who was that ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. That was Gilbert Burk. And after he died I ran 
the organization. When this last election came up we fell out with the 
Pendergast machine and I joined up with Binaggio to help beat them. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". Is that 3'our only connection with it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. The only connection, politically. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Politically. 

Mr. McKissiCK. That is the only think I ever had to do with him, 
politically ; no business. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How about Charlie Gargotta? 

Mr. McKissiCK. None whatsoever. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Never had any business with him at all ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you know Tano Lacoco ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHiEN. How long have you known him ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I have known him I guess 35 yeare. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Did you ever have any business connection with 
him? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Not at any time ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDsciiEiN. Any members of his family ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. How about James Balestrere? 

Mr. IVIcKissiCK. No, sir ; no business at all with him. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How long have you known him ? 

Mr. ]\IcKi8SiCK. I don't know, I would say 12 or 15 years maybe, 
10 or 12 years. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Was your association with him intimate? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Did you see him very often down at the Fifteenth 
Street Club? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I never saw him there that I remember of. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 355 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Fifteenth Street Club is the place where Binaggio 
and Gargotta were murdered, is that what you call the Fifteenth 
Street Club? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. It was my club originally, my courtroom 
where I was justice of the peace. 

Mr. GoLDscHEix. Just tell us what public offices you have held, Mr. 
McKissick and how long. 

Mr. McKissick. I only held one public office. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You never went to the legislature? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. I was justice of the peace for one term. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. When was that? 

Mr. McKissick. In 1944-48. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How long did you know Balestrere? 

Mr. McKissick. About 10 or 11 years. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did he come to the Fifteenth Street Club very 
often? .^ 

Mr. McKissick. I have never seen him. I don't remember seeing 
him. He might have been there. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. For the record tell us what street this Fifteenth 
Street Club is on. 

Mr. McKissick. 716 and 718 East Fifteenth Street. It is now 
known as Truman Road. 

Senator Tobey. Are you going to change that to Binaggio Road? 

Mr. McKissick. I don't think so. 

Mr. Goldschein. Did you ever have any business with "Snag" 
Klein? ^ 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. 

Mr. GoEDSCHEiN. Never? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How long have you known Snag Klein? 

Mr. McKissick. Since he was a boy. 

Mr. GoldscheijSt. You were in that last vote fraud investigation? 

Mr. McKissick. I was. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Were you indicted with that crew ? 

Mr. McKissick. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Were you tried or dismissed ? 

Mr. McKissick. Tried and acquitted. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". Tried and acquitted. You have heard a great 
deal discussed in the newspapers about the theft of those ballots, have 
you not? 

Mr. McKissick. Yes, sir; I have. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. From the county courthouse? 

Mr. McKissick. That is right. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever hear anybody discuss who took those 
ballots? 

Mr. McKissick. No ; I didn't. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever hear anybody discuss takins: the 
ballots? ^ 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever hear anybody discuss the fact that 
ihey ought to be taken or ought to be stolen ? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever hear it discussed at all at any time ? 



356 ORGANIZED CRIME iN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKissicK. I know the, only case, in my brother's case he was 
acquitted, they had the ballots there, he had the ballot box there and 
never even oj)ened it. They never even looked into the ballots. 

Mr. GoLDsciiEiN. Never even looked into the ballots ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Never even opened the sack. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. When was this ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. During my brother's trial. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. Was that in the Federal Building here? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. They had the ballots in the precinct 
where they tried and had the ballots ; they didn't even use them. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEix. I see. They then offered ballots that were stolen ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. The ones that were not stolen they didn't use when 
they had a chance to use them. 

Mr, GoLDscHEiN. Was there anything wrong with the ballots in the 
boxes they had here at that time ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. But there was supposed to be something wrong 
with the ballots in the boxes that were locked up in the courthouse, isn't 
that so ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. That is what they said. 

Mr. GoLDSCHiEN. That was the charge generally. 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, it was. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Snag Klein I believe was one of those convicted 
on that vote fraud, wasn't he? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes ; he was the only one convicted. 

Mr, GoLDSCHEiN. Somebody else was convicted with him, was there 
not? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. GoLDSciiEiN. Who was he ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think his name was Burk. 

Mr, GoLDsciiEiisr, The first name ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I can't think of it. I know him well, but I can't 
think of it. It was Burk, though, the last name. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you know George Clarke ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever have any business with George 
Clarke? ^ 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. No business of any kind ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever see George Clarke about any tax 
assessments ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr, GoLDSCHEiN, Who did you see him about ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't remember. Quite a number of times. 

Mr. GoLDSciiEiN. Businessmen? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Businessmen, and some of them were not busi- 
nessmen. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEii^. Did you ever hnve George Clarke fix any of those 
tax assessments, I mean straighten them out? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCTiEiN. Did you ever see anybody else to see George 
Clarke? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. I went myself sometimes. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 357 

Mr. GoLDsciiEiN". You went directly to him ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDScnEiN. Did you eA^er see any of his deputies? 

Mr. McKissicK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Did anybody ever offer to pay any money to get 
their tax assessments reduced ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Not to me. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. Did you ever hear of anybody else who paid any 
money ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr, GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever hear that that was done? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Well, I don't remember hearing it. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Mr. ]McKissick, you get around quite a bit in 
politics, do you not ? 

]\Ir. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. You know a lot of people. 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Sen^ator Tobey. Is he a Democrat or a Republican ? 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. I never found out. Senator. Tell us what you 
are. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I am a Democrat, and a good one. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Mr. McKissick, you get around quite a bit. Has 
atnybody ever discussed the raising of these tax assessments and 
lowering them for a fee ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I have never heard them talk about it, no. 

Mr. GoLDSciiEiN. Did you ever hear that said? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't remember it if I did. I don't remember it 
said. I know that they have raised taxes and they have cut them, I 
don't remember anybody talking about it, 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You never heard anybody say that there was a 
pay-ofF ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir ; I have never heard that. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. You never heard that at all? 

Mr. McKissiCK, No, sir, 

Mr. GoLDSciiEiN", You have learned about it recently, haven't you, 
3^ou have read about it? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Only what I read in the Star. That is the only 
paper we have. You can't read it in any other paper. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Is that the only time you ever heard or read any- 
thing about it ? 

Mr, McKissiCK, I don't remember ever hearing anything about it. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. How about Walter Eainey ; do you know him ? 

Mr. McKissiCK, Yes, sir, 

Mr, GoLDscHEiN, How long have you known him ? 

Mr, McKissiCK, Twenty-five years maybe, 

Mr. GoLDscHEiisr. What business is he in ? 

Mr. McKissiCK, I don't know what business he is in now. 

!Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. "What business was he in ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. When I knew him I think he was a night-club 
operator ; the only business I have ever known him to be in. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. He is a gambler, too, isn't he ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. He might have gambled on the side. I couldn't 
Drove he was a gambler. 



358 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. I am not asking you what the proof is. I am talk- 
ing about what people generally refer to him as. Wasn't his reputa- 
tion as a gambler ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I have been to his night club many a time. I never 
gambled with him in my life and I never seen him gamble. So I 
wouldn't know if he was a gambler. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. He is generally reputed to be a gambler ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. The Star calls him a gambler. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Is that the only place you ever heard it ? 

Mr. MgKissick. I don't remember. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever place a bet with Walter Rainey ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir, 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN". Never ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr, GoLDSCHEiN". Did you know anybody else who did ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDsCHEiN. You never heard anybody say that Walter 

Mr. McKissiCK. I never heard them call him a gambler. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Or a bookmaker ? 

Mr. McKjssick. No ; I never heard them say he was a gambler of 
any kind. He might book, and possibly he does, but I never seen him. 
I couldn't prove that he did, 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. Mr. McKissick, you are quibbling, aren't you ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Tliere are a lot of things you know that you never 
saw. 

Mr. McKissiCK. Well, yes. I never saw him gamble. I couldn't 
say he was a gambler. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. But he is generally reputed to be a gambler. You 
know that, don't you ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Well 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. He doesn't make any bones about it, does he ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't think he does. I am telling you the truth. 
I wouldn't know he was a gambler. I never saw him gamble. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Do you have any other place of business other 
than the Jewel Box ? 

Mr. McKissiCK, Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. What is that? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I have McKissick's tavern at 1003 East Thirty-first 
Street. I just acquired tJiese two places in the last 6 months. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Was there ever a bookmaking operation in either 
one of those places ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Were you ever propositioned by anybody to have 
a book put in there? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir ; never. 

Mr. GoLDsciiEiN. What other financial interest do you have other 
than those two taverns ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't have any. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. None at all? 

Mr. McKissiCK, No. I just went into the insurance business here. 
I just got my broker's license here about the 17th. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. Prior to these taverns — who are you in the broker- 
age business with ? 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 359 

Mr. McKissiGK. I am a broker myself. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Are you in business with anybody else or on your 
own ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I am on my own. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. What business were you in prior to these taverns 
that you have ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I was with the Goetz Brewery for 14 years. 

Mr. GOLDSCHEIN. And you had no other financial interests other 
than the Goetz Brewery and these taverns ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I was justice of the peace. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. That is not a business. That is a public oflSce. 

Mr. McKissicK. Yes. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Other than that you had no other financial 
interest ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. As a beer salesman and then these two taverns'? 

Mr. McKissiCK. That is right. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. Do you OAvn any real estate ? ' 

Mr. McKissiCK. My home. I am paving on it. I don't own it all. I 
owe about $4,000. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN". Anybody else in your family employed ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No; just me and my wife. My wife is not em- 
ployed. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Has she been? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. She was a telegraph operator before we got 
married. She is not now. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". Did you bring your tax returns with you? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. I tried to locate my books. You asked me for 
my books. The Treasury Department has had them since the 15th 
of September or October. I don't have them. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. When the grand jury first convened here? 

Mr. McKissiCK. When they first came here they took my books. I 
think the tax receipts are right with the other stuff. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. They are safe. We won't let them get away. We 
will give them back to you. 

Mr. McKissick, did you raise any campaign funds for that last 
campaign that you were talking about with Charles Binaggio? 

Mr. McKjssick. Yes ; I raised funds with him. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. About how much? 

Mr. McKissick. I would say around $1,500 or $1,800. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Who did you raise that money from? ' 

Mr. McKissick. Businessmen out in the district, in my ward. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You confined it to your ward? 

Mr. McKissick. Mostly, yes. A few businessmen outside the ward 
gave me $100 or $50 or something like that. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Was everybody that you got monej^ from a busi- 
nessman ? 

Mr. McKissick. As far as I know. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you get any money from any gamblers, any, 
racket boys? You have been a magistrate here, a justice of the peace. 
You know the score. You know who is and who isn't. 

Mr. McKissick. Yes. Before he died I used to get a little campaign 
money from Bud Tralle. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. He is a numbers operator? 



360 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr, McKissicK. He used to be. He is dead now. 

Mr. Goi.DSCiiEiN. Yes. His nephew took over, Schaeffer McBride. 
That is the outfit you mean? 

Mr. McKissiCK. That is right. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How much did you get from Bud Tralle, by the 
way? 

JVIr. McKissiCK. I think I got $500 from him once or twice. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Once or twice in one campaign ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Xo, no. In each campaign. Not always. Some- 
times I didn't get anything from him. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. In this last campaign who else did you get any 
money from, the ones when you tied up with Binaggio? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Gamblers, you mean? 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I didn't. That wasn't left to me. I didn't see 
any gamblers. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". Tralle was the only one that you got any money 
from, and you got $500 from him ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. He was a boyhood friend of mine. I knew him 
all my life and I happened to be out in that district and that is the 
reason I got some from him. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Was Tralle ever arrested on his numbers opera- 
tions that you know of ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Many a time. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Wlio was he arrested by ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. The police. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. And brought to the police station? 

Mr. McKjssick. Yes. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. Wliat was your jurisdiction as a magistrate, Mr. 
McKissick ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I handled all civil cases. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. All civil. No criminal at all ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No criminal cases at al, very few of them. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Sir? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Very few of them. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Mr. McKissick, do you know Pat Noonan? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How long have you known him? 

Mr. McKissiCK. About 30 years. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Was he active in this last campaign that you and 
Binaggio were interested in ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think he was ; not here, he wasn't active. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever give Pat Noonan any campaign 
funds? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Not a nickel. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Positive. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. At no time? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. I never gave Pat Noonan a nickel in my 
life. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever give it to anybody else to give to 
him? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 361 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Were you present when anybody gave him any 
money ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I was not. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you ever meet with Binaggio and Pat Noonan ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes ; I met w^ith them. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Where ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. At the chib. 

Mr. GoLDScHEiN. Fifteenth Street Club? 

Mr. McKissiCK. And in Jefferson City ; I saw them down there too. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. What did you go to Jefferson City for ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Oh, different patronage. To go down and try to 
get a few jobs. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Who did you see when you went to Jefferson City ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I would see the Governor sometimes, sometimes 
somebody else in other departments. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. What kind of jobs were you particularly interested 
in, ^Ir. McKessick? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Clerks' jobs. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Clerks? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Clerks, or State grain inspectors or any kind of a 
State job. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Just a State job? 

Mr. Mc&ssiCK. Yes. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Did you ever see the Governor about the police 
board here ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think I did talk to him once. 

Mr. GOLDSCHEIN. What was that with reference to? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I had a couple of names. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. For what ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I had a couple of names to give him. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. For members ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Endorsement. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. As members of the police board? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Wlio wcrc they ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. One of them was Bill Stone, who used to be the 
head of the American Legion here in the State. And I think the other 
one I asked him not to replace, Milligan. I think that was one of 
them. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You wanted Tuck Milligan ; is that it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. He is one of the finest fellows who ever 
walked. I wanted him on there. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. When was that you went to see him about Tuck 
Milligan ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. When the blow-off came here and 
they started talking about replacing him. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. That was while this grand jury was on the early 
part of this year? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, I think it was. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you tell the Governor why you wanted Milli- 
gan on ? 

The Chairman. Milligan was already on the board. 

Mr. Goldschein. Why he wanted him to stay ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. ' 



362 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you tell him why you wanted him to stay ? 

Mr. McIO:ssicK. I told him I thought he was as fine a man as could 
be appointed to the police board and I didn't think he need replacing. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Was that before Binaggio was murdered ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. That was after ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Mr. GoLDSGHEiN, Did you ever discuss Milligan with Charlie 
Binaggio? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, I don't remember. I don't remember discuss- 
ing him with him. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Milligan was interested in a sort of liberal, open 
town, wasn't he? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I wouldn't think so ; no. I wouldn't say that. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Do you know his particular inclination toward 
open or closed towns ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I never talked to him about that. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did it make any difference to you whether the 
town was open or closed? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Not directly ; no. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How about indirectly ? Are you interested ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, not as far as being in business or anything. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. As a citizen were you interested ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think a town is better off if it is a little open. 

Mr .GoLDscHEiN. What do you mean by a little open ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. This town has never been wide open, not in the 
last 10 years, I would say. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You mean you like it the way it has been operating 
in the past 10 years ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't like it too open like it was years ago, and I 
don't think it has been open here in the last 10 years. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. You know of all these gambling houses. You 
have read of all these gambling houses which have been operating 
around here in the past lO years, haven't you ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, a lot of them weren't right. Some of them 
have been closed for years. 

Mr. Goi.DSCHEiN. They would close one place and open another. 
Isn't that the way it operates? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. 

Mr. Goi.DSCHEiN. You have heard about it, though, have you not? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I read about it ; yes. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Your idea is that they ought to have some gam- 
bling houses in Kansas City ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't think they should be closed as tight as it 
has been. 

Mr. GoT,DsciTETN. As tight as it has be^en when? 

Mr. McKissiCK. In this town. 

Mr. GoEDscHEiN. You mean as tight as it is now ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Mr. Goi.DSCHEiN. You don't think it ought to be that tight? 

Mr. McKjssick. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. Just how tight ? Give us an idea of how tight 
you think it ought to be. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 363 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't believe that it should be closed altogether 
like it is. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you think you ought to haA^e a few gambling 
houses open ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think so myself. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You think you ought to have some bookmakers? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think so. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You think you ought to have some numbers 
ojDerators ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think so. It put 900 Negroes out of work out 
there, and they are out stealing now. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You mean there were 900 Negroes employed in 
the numbers racket? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr, GoLDSCHEiN. Who employed those? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Policy operators, I guess. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Nine hundred? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I would say that many, all over the whole district 
here, Kansas, Missouri. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Outside of McBride and Schaeffer, who operates- 
these numbers rackets? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know who operates them. 
- Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You have an idea. 

Mr. McKissiCK. No ; I don't know who operates them now. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN". Mr. McKissick, you are a public official ; you were 
a magistrate at one time. Give us your idea about this gambling oper- 
ation, how you think it ought to be operated. Do you think the racket 
boys ought to continue 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir ; I don't believe that. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How do you think it ought to be operated ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't see anything worse in going in betting $2' 
on a horse in a barber shop than I would at a race track. I don't see 
why it is a crime one place and not the other. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you think any of this $2 that you bet in a 
barber shop is used for graft ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Wliat is your idea about it? We want to get 
some ideas from you. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't think it is. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You don't think any of it is ever paid as graft? 

Mr. McKissiCK. You might pay some of it as campaign money or 
something, but I don't think it is for graft. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You don't think any of that money is used to pav 
off a public official? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't think so ; no. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You don't think any public official around in 
Kansas City ever took any money? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Not that I know of, they never, 

Mr. GoLDSCiiEiN. You mean never at no time ? 

Mr, McKissiCK. I said not that I know of. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN-. We want to know what is your idea of it, not 
what you know, what you believe to be the condition, regardless of 

68958— 51— pt. 4a 24 



364 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMAIERCE 

what — 3'OU ma}' not know an individnal who did it, bnt you have some 
ideas on that, haven't you ? We all have. You have been around. 
You know the score. We just want ideas from you. We understand 
you don't know who any particular individual who carries the satchel, 
is that what you mean ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. You have ideas about whether or not a place can 
operate without somebody closing their eyes. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I wouldn't know. I don't think — I imagine they 
overlooked a lot of little things like that. 

]\Ir. GoLDSCHEiN. How about big ones? 

Mr. jMcKissick. I think most of them are operated under closed 
doors and locked doors. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Don't you think the police are trying to close 
them ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think they have. They have raided them many 
a time, many a place out there. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you think the police ought to continue to raid 
or let some of them run ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. I just think that has killed this town. 
This town is the deadest town in the country now. Your merchants 
and everybody else is noticing it because it has closed it. 

Mr. GoLDSciiEiN. That is what the committee is interested in. Tell 
us how it kills a town by closing the gambling. Do you include 
the red light district in that? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, I would. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. The committee is probably interested in that. 
Would you be interested in that ? 

(Discussion olf the record.) 

Senator Tobey. Have you got any children ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. I have a lot of nieces and nephews, and 
they are all grown up to be good people. 

Mr. Goldscheix. Mr. JMcKissick, do you have an interest in this 
gambling place at Fifteenth and Charlotte? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEix. You never had any interest? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Do you know where it is ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Who operates it? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think Billy Genova, right across the street from 
my club. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. It is a crap game, isn't it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. It was for a couple of months. They had a run ' 
over there. I don't know. It is closed now. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Have you ever been in it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Mr. (tOldsciieix. Never been in it at all ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I Avas in that room before it was 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. While it was operating? 

Mr. McKissiCK. There used to be a Democratic clubroom there 
years ago. The Fifteenth Street Democratic Club, my opponents out 
there in every primary election they used that out tliere as a clubroom. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 365 

Mr. GoLDSCHEix. You say you never had any financial interest in 
that at all ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. And have never been in it while it was operating; 
is that right? 

Mr. McKissicK. That is right. 

Mr. GoLDsciiEix. Does Clark have an interest in that? George 
Clark? 

Mr. McKissicK. Not that I know of. 

Mr. GoLDscHEix. You never heard of that? 

Mr. McKissicK. No, sir. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How about Binaggio? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. The only ones I ever saw over there 
were around the corner there and they used to come up to my club 
all the time. I just figured they were there, Jack Williams and Willie 
Genova. Those are the only ones I know of. Whether they owned it 
or worked there I don't know. 

Mr. Halley. That is all. 

Senator Tobey. Do you know Mr. Pendergast ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Senator Tobey. How well ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I have known him about 25 or 30 years. 

Senator Tobey. Is he with your group in the Democratic Party ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Not for the past few years he hasn't been. We 
have been opposite. 

Senator Tobey. I see. So there is your gi'oup or Mr. Binaggio's 
group and Mr. Pendergast's group ; is that right ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tqbey. Is Mr. Pendergast the leader of the other group? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. How old a man is he ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Fifty-four or 55 I would say. 

Senator Tobey. What is his business ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. He is a lawyer. 

Senator Tobey. Practicing lawyer. What kind of cases ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't know. I never saw him try one. 

Senator Tobey. Has he ever tried one in court ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes; I guess he does, but I have never been in a 
courtroom where he was. 

Senator Tobey. Has he inherited his father's mantel ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Has he as much power as his father had ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Is he as attractive a personality as his father was ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. It was his uncle. 

Senator Tobey. I beg your pardon. Is he as attractive a person- 
ality ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

Senator Tobey. So the leadership is in poor hands in your judg- 
ment. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I would say so ; yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. You have gone into the insurance business recently ? 

Mr. McKjssick. Yes, sir. 



366 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMJMERCE 

Senator Tobey. What kind of insurance? 

Mr. McKissicK. All kinds. 

Senator Tobey. How long have you been in the insurance business? 

Mr. McKissicK. I just went in it. 

Senator Tobey. Prior to that time what experience had you in the 
insurance business ? 

Mr. McKissicK. Very little. 

Senator Tobey. How did you happen to go into it then ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I am trying to sell my saloons and get out of it. 

Senator Tobey. And get in the insurance business ? 

Mr. McKissiGK, Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Are you getting out of the saloon business because 
it is unattractive ? 

IMr. McKissicK. It is making an old man out of me, staying around 
until 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning. I can't take it like I used to. 
There is not the money in it any more. The places lost money. 

The Chairman. Mr. McKissick, after the primary and after Gov- 
ernor Smith was elected, did you and Binaggio and others of your 
group have conferences about ways of getting Chief Johnson out as 
chief of police and loosening up the police department here ? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir; not me. I wasn't there if they had that 
meeting. 

The Chairman. You knew that is what all of 3'ou wanted to do 
right after the election? 

Mr. McKissick. Not me. 

The Chairman. Binaggio and the other leaders ? 

Mr. McKissick. They might have, but not me. 

The Chairman. You knew that ? 

Mr. McKissick. I never did try to fire Johnson. 

The Chairman. Did you not want to get so-called liberal people 
on the police board who would open up the city some? That was 
part of the plan, was it not ? 

Mr. McKissick. They never talked that over with me. Any of 
the jobs 

The Chairman. What kind of jobs were you trying to get ? 

]VIr. McKissick. I tried to get a few jobs on the police department 
and a few clerks. I did manage to get a few janitors, a couple of 
janitors and an elevator operator. That is about all. We figured 
we were entitled to a few jobs. We won the election and the Republi- 
cans had fired all of our people previous to that. We figured a few 
of the boys wanted to get reinstated but they were all good policemen. 

The Chairman. How many votes did the Binaggio group deliver, 
vour group, or did you deliver in the primary, 30,000 or 35,000 ? 

Mr. McKissick. I think around 25,000, 27,000. 

The Chairman. Then how many is the Pendergast group good for? 

Mr. McKissick. I think we beat them by five or six thousand. 

The Chairman. The Binaggio group is a sort of combination of 
different groups, the Shannon group and others ? 

]Mr. McKissick. Yes. Wlien they organized he had 11 or 12 pre- 
cincts down here on the north side and I had the second ward and 
part of the fourth, and a few precincts in the third. I joined up witli 
him for that one election. 

The Chairman. Then Shannon joined up with him ? 

Mr. McKissick. Shannon went with him on it. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 367 

The Chairman. How many votes did you have in your machine? 

Mr. McKissiCK. The vote for Truman was 8,500 to 1,300. 8,500 
Democrats, 1,300 Republicans. That was the second ward. Then I 
had a few precincts in the fourth and third wards. 

The Chairman. What was the idea of the ballot theft? Why did 
somebody steal the ballots, do you know ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I don't know. I really don't. Like I said awhile 
ago, the precincts they did try had the ballots there and they didn't 
even use them. 

The Chairman. Did you ever hear any discussion about why they 
would want to get those ballots and burn them ? 

Mr. McKissicK. No, sir ; I never did. 

The Chairman. Do you have any idea about who got them ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir; I have no idea in the world. 

The Chairman. What is your theory about wliy Binaggio and Gar- 
gotta were killed ? I know it is wild speculation. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I wouldn't know, I swear. 

The Chairman. Have you heard anybody discuss the matter who 
knew anything about it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You do not have any idea who killed him ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

The Chairman. I believe that is all. 

Mr. Halley. I have a few questions after you, Senator Tobey. 

Senator Tobey. When you approached these taxing authorities for 
readjustments for some of your friends, what basis and what argu- 
ment did you use to get these readjustments? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Lots of times a fellow would fail to make a return 
on his merchants' and manufacturers' tax. The board of equalization 
estimates and then they double it and then they penalize him. That 
is what most of them were on. They would be penalties where it 
would be an old piece of property, and old house or something, and 
they would want it cut, and it should have been cut. 

Senator Tobey. You came in as a friend to explain these incon- 
sistencies ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Political friends of mine, they would come to me, 
the best people. 

Senator Tobey. In this group that you would deliver these votes on 
in the last election, you mentioned so many Democrats and so many 
[Republicans. What is the modus operandi? How do you herd up 
those votes ? How do you know they are going to come through ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Because they are Democrats. 

Senator Tobey. They are Democrats, but you have two schools of 
them here. 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Senator Tobey. How do you know they are going to go your way ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I have been in this one ward all my life and most 
of my precinct captains have too. Most of them live right in the 
precinct all their lives, and they have done political favors for their 
neighbors and the voters in that district, and when election time 
comes 

Senator Tobey. Are votes bought for cash in Kansas City ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Are votes bought ? 

Senator Tobey. Yes. 



368 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKissiCK. I wouldn't know. 

Senator Tobey. Did you ever know of any being bought? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No ; I wouldn't know. 

Senator Tobey. This man Slaughter who ran for Congress — is that 
his name? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey, He was defeated, was he not ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. It was in connection with that defeat that these 
ballots were cast, wasn't it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I didn't hear that. 

Senator Tobey. These stolen ballots were in the contest in which 
Slaughter ran? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Senator Tobey. The administration in Washington was opposed to 
Slaughter, wasn't it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. In your judgment was Slaughter elected fairlj 
and gypped out of it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I do not think so. 

Senator Tobey. Is there any evidence to that effect in your judg- 
ment ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that the place where you said they had some 
ballots from some wards in and did not open them ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. It was my ward. 

The Chairman. In these other wards, though, they had some doubt 
about whether those ballots 

Mr. McKissACK. There were some in my ward that were missing. 
Some of the ballots in my ward were missing, but where they had the 
ballots in the trials they didn't use them. 

Senator Tobey. Mr. McKissick, you as an American citizen, with 
great intelligence — I pay you that tribute by your answers here to- 
day — in your judgment must know there was some evil in connection 
with the election ; otherwise the ballots would not have been disposed 
of. It is elementary, is it not? A school child would know that, 
would he not ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I imagine that is what everybody thinks. 

Senator Tobey. Why did they go to the pains of taking a chance of 
being caught committing a crime unless there was some reason for 
doing it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. There were other people who had reasons. 

Senator Tobey. What is that ? 

INIr. McKissiCK. Other people probably had reasons to want to 
throw a reflection on the organization here too. 

Senator Tobey. Who, for instance? 

Mr. McKissiCK. A lot of people. 

Senator Tobey. That is not definite. 

jSIr. McKissiCK. No ; I am not definite. 

Senator Tobey. Can you not be definite? 

]\rr. ]\fcKissicK. No. 

Senator Tobey. Are you coming through and opening up and giving 
ns everything you know how, trying to find something to help this 
committee on, hating evil like hell itself and outraged by the inde- 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 369 

cenies and improprieties of crooked politicians and wanting to see this 
Nation a nation wherein righteousness prevails, or are yon playing a 
game so that you are on the same level for revenue or political advan- 
tage? What is it? Is McKissack a man who has a great zeal for 
righteousness in his soul or is he playing the game on the lower levels 
because it suits his purpose? 

Mr. INIcKissicK. Xo, sir; I am as good a living man as anybody 
else. 

Senator Tobey. I did not ask that. Do you feel a hatred toward all 
this chicanery, toward the numbers racket, toward prostitution, toward 
anything that is evil and anti-Christ ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No ; I don't. 

Senator Tobey. Why do you not ? 

Mr. McKissicK. Because I don't. 

Senator Tobey. Why do you not feel that way? What is your 
church? Are you a Catholic or Protestant? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I don't go to church. 

Senator Tobey. Why do you not ? You know what decency is and 
righteousness is, do you not? 

]Mr. McKissicK. Yes ; I do. 

Senator Tobey. Then knowing that in your heart, do you not feel 
hatred of anything that spoils this country? It is a fair country and 
decent men let it be so. You are only going to live 60 like the rest 
of us. Some day you and I are going to meet our God. What are 
you going to say when you are asked, ''What were you doing, Mr. 
McKissick, down in the twentieth century with the rottenness going 
on, seeking dirty, paltry money?" What are you going to say, 
McKissick ? 

]Mr. McKissick. I never took any dirty money. 

Senator Tobey. I did not say that. But vour influence is either 
for it or against it. None of us are neutral. You are either for these 
things or against them. 

Mr. McKissick. I was born and raised down there, that is why, and 
I know those people, and I am just not against my people that I know. 

Senator Tobey. No matter how they play the game ? 

Mr. McKissick. I don't care. 

Senator Tobey. That is all right. 

Mr. McKissick. I was raised in that district down there, and I 
don't have nothing to do with that, but I am not against any of that 
because it has been in that district all my life. 

Senator Tobey. That is all. 

The CiiAiEMAN. Any other questions? 

Mr. H ALLEY. AVould it be possible for you to find the A^ery first 
question Senator Kefauver asked and read that? 

(The question and answer referred to follow :) 

The Chairman. Mr. McKissick, after the primary and after Governor Smith 
was elected, did you and Binaggio and otliers of your group have conferences 
about ways of getting Chief Johnson out as chief of police and loosening up the 
police department here? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir ; not me. I wasn't there if they had that meeting. 

Mr. Halley. What meeting were you referring to ? 

Mr. McKissick. About getting Chief Johnson out. 

]\Ir. Halley. Was there such a meeting? 

Mr. McKissick. Not that I know of. If there Avas I never attended. 



370 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Halley. Did you hear of such a meeting ? 

Mr. McKissicK. No. 

Mr. Halley, Thank you. 

Senator Tobey. He just qualified it by saying "Referring to that 
meeting." What does that mean? 

Mr. McKissicK. He asked about the meeting. 

Senator Tobey. But you said 

Mr. McKissicK. A meeting with me and other fellows to get Chief 
Johnson out. I never attended that meeting. 

Senator Tobey. Is Smith still Governor ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. Is he a strong character or a weak character? 

Mr. McKissicK. Weak. 

Senator Tobey. Crooked ? 

Mr. McKissicK. No, no. 

Senator Tobey. Just weak? 

Mr. McIvissiCK. Weak. I would say anybody who wants his own 
appointees removed I would say he is weak. 

Senator Tobey. That might have been an act of reconsideration or 
reevaluation. 

The Chairman. You have changed your mind about him since you 
supported him, then. 

Mr. McKissicK. Yes, sir ; very much. 

Mr. Goldschein. Do you know Eddie Spitz ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Goldschein. Osadchey? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Goldschein. He was a member of your club ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Goldschein. Did you have various and sundry committees to 
•do different things ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think we did during the election time ; yes. 

Mr. Goldschein. How about after election ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. We had a finance committee. 

Mr. Goldschein. Did you have a committee for patronage, a patron- 
age committee? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. I was president of the club and usually the 
patronage went through me. . 

Mr. Goldschein. Did you have any working with you ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir, 

Mr. Goldschein. Was Eddie Spitz on any committee at any time? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think at one time he was. 

Mr. Goldschein. What committee? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think he was on the committee on patronage for 
the first ward, but then later I took charge of all of it. 

Mr. Goldschein. All right. 

Wlien he was on the patronage committee who was on the committee 
with him ? j 

Mr, McKissiCK. He was on by himself. 

Mr. Goi dschein. Wlio appointed him ? 

]\[r. McKissiCK. Binaggio, I imagine. I didn't. 

Mr. Goldschein. You did not? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 371 

Mr, GoLDscHEiN. You were president of the club ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GoLtDSCHEiN. Did Binaggio run the club ? 

Mr. McKissicK. Yes, sir. He was chairman. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. I thought you were diairman. 

Mr. McKissicK. No. I was president. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Oh, you had a chairman. What was the chair- 
man ? How do you clistmguish ? Wliat was the chairman and what 
was the president's functions ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I was the organizer of the precincts and wards. 
In fact, I did the work. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Yes, and he told you what to do ? 

Mr. McKissicK. No, he didn't tell me. I knew what to do as far 
as the politics was concerned. I did the work. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. What was his function ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. He was chairman of the club. He sat in on any- 
thing that came up about candidates. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. I see. He appointed the committees. 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think he appointed Spitz if he was appointed. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. To the police and firemen patronage board or 
committee, was that it, or just patronage committee ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I would say patronage committee, but he was on 
there just a short time. They reverted back to me. I just told him 
I was president of the club and I felt all patronage should come 
tiirough me and that was done. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. How long was Spitz on it ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I would say a couple of weeks maybe. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. A couple of weeks ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No longer than that. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you tell Spitz to get off or did Binaggio tell 
him? 

Mr. McKissiCK. I think I told him. I resented everybody running 
down to different offices telling them to put people to work and I 
told them that any jobs that came up should come through me. 

Mr. GoLDscHEiN. Who did you tell that to ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Binaggio. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you tell it to Spitz? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you talk to Spitz about it? 

Mr. McEjessick. No. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did he ever talk to you about any particular 
patronage ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. No. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did he ever recommend anybody in the police 
department to you ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. He might have. I don't remember. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did he come to you about having anybody trans- 
ferred ? 

JNIr. McKissiCK. No ; I don't believe he ever came to me about having 
anybody transferred. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiisr. Did he come to you about having somebody put 
on the police department ? 



372 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. McKissiCK. He could not have anybody transferred the way the 
set-up was. You had a Pendergast man on the board and a Republi- 
can on the board. They were pulling apart from the two Democrats. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. How about getting somebody on ? 

Mr. McKissicK. I did get a few on ; yes. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. On the police department ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Yes. 

Mr. GOLDSCHEIN. Wlio? 

Mr. McKissicK. A few replacements, fellows who had been on be- 
fore and fired when the Republicans took office. We tried to put 
some of them back on. We didn't have niuch luck. We put a few of 
them back. 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. Did you have anybody fired ? 

Mr. McKissiCK. Xo, sir ; I never had anybody fired ? 

Mr. GoLDSCHEiN. That is all. 

The Chairman. Mr. McKissick, on these efforts to get people on — 
and they were not very successful, as you have said — who was your 
liaison ? Who did you go to see about these matters ? 

Mr. McKissick. I think I talked to Milligan a few times about some 
patronage, about getting a few fellows reinstated, a new fellow going 
back on. 

The Chairman. Captain Parker, or Superintendent Anderson? I 
mean who actually had charge of the firing and hiring. 

Mr. McKissick. The board. 

The Chairman. The board itself. 

Mr. McKissick. They would take the application in to the personnel 
department, and then the board would bring it up, but we only got 
on a few because the board was pulling apart all the time, they had 
this Republican, one Republican, and Chambers, who was a Pencler- 
gast man, and these two fellows who were against Pendergast, Milli- 
gan and Farrell, were for Governor Smith o"u different sides there, so 
they could not get along. 

The Chairman. And nothing happened ? 

Mr. McKissick. Nothing happened. I think we got eight civilian 
jobs out of the whole thing, out of 105. And we won the election. 

The Chairman. You did not feel that you were treated right ? 

Mr. McKissick. I don't think so. 

Senator Tobet. "There ain't no justice," is there? 

Mr. McKissick. No, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, thank you, Mr. McKissick. 

Mr. Halley. We will take Mr. Spitz next. 

The Chairman. You will be excused unless we call you again. 

Mr. McKissick. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Mr. Spitz, come around over here. Will you stand 
up, raise your right hand and swear that the testimony that you will 
give this committee is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. I do. «■}-. 

TESTIMONY- OF EDWARD PHILIP OSADCHEY (EDDIE SPITZ), 
KANSAS CITY, MO. 

Mr. Halley. What is your full name? 
Mr. OsADCiiEY. Edward Philip Osadchey. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 373 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been known by any other name ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. No — Spitz? 

Mr. Halley. As Spitz ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Spitz. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you get the name Spitz ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. My mother gave it to me when I was a kid. 

Mr. Halley. As a nickname ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. "VVliere is your address ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Home address ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. 

Mr. Osadchey. 432 East Sixty-fourth Terrace. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have a business ? 

Mr. Osadchey. I am in the garage business and in the ballroom 
business. 

Mr. Halley. Any other business ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No. 

Mr. Halley. "VYliat is the address of your garage business ? 

Mr. Osadchey. 1208 Wyandotte. 

Mr. Halley. Do you have any partners in the garage business ? 

Mr, Osadchey. Two. 

Mr, Halley. Wlio are they ? 

Mr. Osadchey. My brotlier and brother-in-law. 
• Mr. Halley, Do you have any agency in your garage for any auto- 
mobile, sales agency, or repair agency ? 

Mr. Osadchey. They repair cars and rent cars. 

Mr. Halley. But you have no agency from any distributor or 
manufacturer ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, we are no agent for them. 

Mr. Halley. Do you sell cars? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What cars do you sell ? 

Mr. Osadchey. All cars. 

Mr. Halley. All cars. What is your ballroom business ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Wliat is it ? 

Mr. Halley. Yes. Do you have a ballroom ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Ballroom, 

Mr, Halley. Where is it ? 

Mr. Osadchey. 1208 Wyandotte. 

The Chairman. Louder, Mr. Spitz. 

Mr. Osadchey, 1208 Wyandotte. I have a sore throat. 

Mr. Halley, Please talk as loudly as you can. 

Do you have any partners in the ballroom ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Milton Morris. 

Mr. Halley. Anyone else ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No. 

Mr. Halley. Is there a bar connected with your ballroom ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No drinking at all there ; no bar. 

Mr. Halley. How do you operate? Do you have dancing open 
to the public ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Open to the public, and we cater to banquets, parties, 
fraternities, conventions, private parties. 

Mr. Halley. Do you also have pviblic dances ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Public dancing. 



374 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 1 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever arrested ? 

Mr. OsADCHET. Well, now, let's see ; arrested, yes. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state when and where? 

Mr. Osadohey. In town. 

Mr. Halley. Please be specific. 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes. About twenty-some years ago, I guess. 

Mr. Halley. What was the charge? 

Mr. Osadchey. Liquor. 

Mr. Halley. A prohibition violation ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you convicted ? 

Mr. Osadchey. A misdemeanor conviction. 

Mr. Halley. Were you the sole defendant or were there other 
defendants ? 

Mr, Osadchey. I was the sole defendant. 

Mr. Halley. Were you arrested at any other time ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You are sure of that ? 

Mr. Osadchey. I was trying to think if there was any little minor 
thing. That was the only time I am quite sure. 

Mr. Halley. You have only one conviction on your record ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Osadchey. In Russia. 

Mr. Halley. And when did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Osadchey. I don't remember. I was just very small, 3 or 4 
years old, 

Mr. Halley. How old are you now ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Forty-three. 

Mr. Halley. You are 43 now ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Where did you go to school in this country? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. In what city ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Right here. 

Mr. Halley. You attended primary school, grammar school here? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you been living in Kansas City ever since? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You have never resided in any other city? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What businesses have you been in besides the ball- 
room and garage business? Did you ever have a place called the 
Show Bar? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. That place used to be the College Inn, and 
I leased it out, and they called it the Show Bar. 

Mr. Halley. I am sorry, smoking is not allowed here. It is prob- 
ably not good for your throat anyway. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Osadchey. All right, sir. 

]\Ir. Halley. We are all refi'aining from smoking for that reason. 

Mr. Osadchey, what about the Show Bar? You say you leased it. 
It was called the College Inn originally, was it not? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 375 

Mr. Halley. When did yoii lease it ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. A couple of years ago. 

Mr. Halley. Who did you lease it to? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. I leased it to Si Davis. 

Mr. Halley. And Kainey ? 

Mr. OsADCiiEY. I guess he had Rainey and some other partners. I 
don't know who. I did business with Si Davis. 

Mr. Halley. You did not operate it yourself ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. At that time, no. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever operate it? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Sure; I operated it for a good many years. 

Mr. Halley. How many years ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Gosh, I don't know offhand; 12 or 13, something 
like that. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any partners in it yourself? 

Mr. Osadchey. Early I had a partner, Jack Randazo. 

Mr. Halley. Anyone else? 

Mr. Osadchey. That is all. Now, I think for a while I had a 
fellow by the name of Sam Morris with me, and I had my nephew in 
there with me for a while. 

Mr. Halley. How long have you known Charlie Binaggio? 

Mr. Osadchey. Oh, probably 20 years, I guess. 

Mr. Halley. When did you' join his club? 

Mr. Osadchey. AVlien I got out of the Army. 

Mr. Halley. In What year? 

Mr. Osadchey. In 1945. 

Mr. Halley. You had known him before that, though ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Were you ever in business with Charlie Binaggio? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state the businesses in which you have par- 
ticipated with Binaggio ? 

Mr. Osadchey. In the Ace Sales & Equipment Co. 

Mr. Halley. Who were the partners in that business ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Charlie Binaggio, Morris Klein, Ralph Spits- 
caufsky, and myself; and Pat Noonan had a little interest in it for a 
while. 

Mr. Halley. Noonan was also convicted some years ago of an 
alcohol violation. Were you in the alcohol business with Noonan? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Back in the twenties ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you know him back in the twenties ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Klein is the man who is now in jail on the vote fraud; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. He was also a partner with you at Ace Sales & Equip- 
ment Co. ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Binaggio was a third partner; is that right? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was the business of Ace Sales ? 



376 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Buying and selling surplus equipment and material. 

Mr. Halley. From whom did you buy it, the United States Gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr. OsADCiiEY. From anj^body that you could buy it from. 

Mr. Halley. Did you buy it from the United States Government ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Yes; it includes them. Anybody you could buy 
it from. 

Mr. Halley. You did buy from the United States Goverimient? 

Mr. OsADCiiEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. To whom did you sell it ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Anybody you could sell it to. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever sell anything to the State of IVIissouri ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. To my knowledge, no. To the best of my knowl- 
edge, no. 

Mr. Halley. Did you ever sell anything to any county or municipal 
or other government? I am now referring to Ace Sales when I say 
"you.'' 

Mr. OsADCiiEY. I don't think so. I wouldn't know, but I don't 
think so. However, we might have sold a piece or two, but it wasn't 
much if they did. 

Mr. Halley. What is the Missouri Electric Co. ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. It is an electric company here in town. 

Mr. Halley. Who are the partners who own it? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. I think Morris Klein and Charlie Binaggio and 
Harry Young. 

Mr. Halley. Klein is the same Snag Klein who is in jail for the vote 
fraud ; is that right ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley And you are a partner ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you no connection with Missouri Electric Co. ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever had a connection with Missouri 
Electric? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Have you ever been in their premises? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. They have done work for me. They are 
doing some now. 

Mr. Halley What are they doing for you ? 

Mr Osadchey. They are putting in some lights and changing some 
main-line boxes. I tore out a wall, and they changed the main boxes 
from one wall to another one, putting in some lights. 

Mr. Halley. What other businesses have you been in ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Do I have to 

The Chairman. That is a proper question. The committee wants 
to know. 

Mr. Osadchey. I mean, do I have to answer a question where there 
is a State violation? 

The Chairman. This is a Federal senatorial committee, and you 
have no immunity from testifying before this committee because of 
something involved in the State. It is only if you think you are going 
to be charged with a Federal offense as a result of j^our testimony. 

Mv. Osadchey. All right, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 377 

INIr. Hali.ey. You have been advised by counsel ; have you not ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. No, sir; I have never had — just curb service is a,ll. 

Mr. Halley. There was a lawyer here yesterday who said he was 
representing you. 

Mr. OsADCHEY. I just talked to him a few minutes. He never had a 
chance to look up the law, he told me. It was kind of curb service. 

Mr. Halley. Y ou discussed this matter at least with him yesterday ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. In a small way, yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. You have had opportunity to seek legal advice since 
yesterday that you wanted to. 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Why not ? 

Mr. Osadchey. When I left here I went directly up to the place 
where I was doing some work. I worked there until about 12 o'clock. 

Mr. Halley. That was your choice. In any event, the law is that 
you liaA'e no privilege against self-incrimination where State law 
violations are involved. 

Mr. Osadchey. All right. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state what other businesses you have been 
in besides those which we have been discussing? 

Mr. Osadchey. I have an interest in a gambling casino. 

]Mr. Halley. What gambling casino? 

Mr. Osadchey. The Last Chance. 

Mr. Halley. Will you state to the committee what the Last Chance 
is? 

Mr. Osadchey. It is a gambling casino. 

Mr. Halley. Where is it located ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Southwest Boulevard. 

Mr. Halley. In Kansas City, Mo. ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Well, there is some dispute whether it is Kansas 
City, Mo., or Kansas City, Kans. 

Mr. Halley. You were a partner there ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What percentage did you have? 

Mr. Osadchey. Well, different — I was there two different times. 

Mr. Halley. Just roughly, did you have 50 percent ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. I had probably 8, 10, or 12 percent. I 
don't know. 

Mr. Halley. You had some other partners ; did you not? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Tony Gizzo was a partner ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Tony Gizzo was not a partner in the Last Chance ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Was Lacoco a partner? 

INIr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Gargotta? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Freedlander? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Snag Klein? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. That is the same Snag Klein we have been talking 
about ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 



378 ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 

Mr. Hallet. Did you share your percentage with anyone else? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Halley. At no time? 

Mr. Osadchey. At no time, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When did you have a percentage in the Last Chance ? 

Mr. Osadchey. The first time in 1947, I believe, in October — these 
dates may not be right, sir. 

The Chairman. Give us your best estimate about it, sir. 

Mr. Osadchey. In October, I think, 1947; and again in 1948 and 
1949, 1 think, it ran over a few days. 

Mr. Halley. What was your investment in the Last Chance? 

Mr. Osadchey. I believe around $1,200 or $1,300. 

Mr. Halley. What work did you do at the Last Chance? Were 
you on the premises in the operation of it? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. What was your function ? 

Mr. Osadchey. To get customers. 

Mr. Halley. To get customers ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. Did you have any other function ? 

Mr. Osadchey. No, sir. 

Mr. Hai^ley. What were your profits over the 3-year period? 
ideally 2 years ; is it not ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. Two or three years. 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes ; it ran over 

Mr. Halley. Into 1950 ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. When did it close, in April of 1950- 



The Chairman. We cannot hear you over here. About when was 
it closed ? 

Mr. Osadchey. It closed the day 

Mr. Halley. The day Binaggio was murdered ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes. 

Mr. Halley. You don't have to be shy about those things. They 
happened. What was the relationship between the closing of the 
Last Chance and the murder of Binaggio? Why did you fellows 
decide to close it that day ? 

Mr. Osadchey. Well, naturally we knew that there would be a 
lot of heat. 

Senator Tobey. It was real grief for Binaggio, was it not? You 
could not bear to carry on without him, was that it ? 

Mr. Osadchey. How are you. Senator? I didn't recognize you. 

Senator Tobey. I remember you very well. Was it great grief for 
Binaggio who had been taken to his reward and you felt so badly you 
could not bear to carry on without his presence? 

Mr. Osadchey. I personallj^ did. 

Senator Tobey. Wliat was the other reason? 

Mv. Osadchey. The other reason was that there would be a lot of 
heat, naturally. 

Senator Tobey. You knew the heat was on ? 

IVIr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 

Senator Tobey. And there would be investigations and possibly 
prosecutions? 

Mr. Osadchey. Yes, sir. 



ORGANIZED CRIME IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE 379 

Mr. Halley. Didn't Binaggio have a piece of the Last Chance ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Halley. How much ? 

Mr. OsADCHEY. I think 12 or 15 percent. 

Senator Tobey. Did he put any money int