cm .
\%^i.^^\^ W
"*
^
Given By
U. S. SUPT. OF DOCUMENTS
1/ "2_;_: __
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE
1 4 UNITED STATES
(Office of Price Administration)
HEARINGS '
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN- AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIYES
SEVENTY-NINTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
H. Res. 5
TO INVESTIGATE (1) THE EXTENT, CHARACTER, AND
OBJECTS OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN
THE UNITED STATES; (2) THE DIFFUSION WITHIN THE
UNITED STATES OF SUBVERSIVE AND UN-AMERICAN PROP-
AGANDA THAT IS INSTIGATED FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES
OR OF A DOMESTIC ORIGIN AND ATTACKS THE PRINCIPLE
OF THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT AS GUARANTEED BY
OUR CONSTITUTION; AND (3) ALL OTHER QUESTIONS IN
RELATION THERETO THAT WOULD AID CONGRESS IN ANY
NECESSARY REMEDIAL LEGISLATION
JUNE 20, 21, 27, 1945, AT WASHINGTON, D. C.
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
83079 WASHINGTON : 1946
0
/%.
w»{)
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman
JOHN E. RANKIN, Mississippi J. PARNELL THOMAS, New Jersey
J. HARDIN PETERSON, Florida KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota
J. W. ROBINSON, Utah GERALD W. LANDIS. Indiana
JOHN R. MURDOCK, Arizona
HERBERT C. BONNER, North Carolina
Ernie Adamson, Cbtinsel
John W Carrington, Clerk
II
CONTENTS
Statement of — Page
Chester Bowles 2
D. B. Stetler 14
Zenas L. Potter 33, 59
Daniel R. WooUey ^ 45
George V. McDavitt 67
EXHIBITS
Ko.
1. Letter, November 23, J944, Elmer Davis to Chester Bowles 9
2. Letter, December 4, 1944, Chester Bowles to Elmer Davis 10
3. Memo, December 2, 1944, Jack O'Brien to James Rogers 10
4. Letter, December 1, 1944, Tex Weiner to Jack O'Brien 10
5. Contract, J. Walter Thompson Co. & WOR (Stand. Brands) 15
6. Contract, J. Walter Thompson Co. & Bamberger 18
7. Pa V roll. May 1, 1945, Soldiers With Coupons 22,23
8. Pav roll, May 8, 1945, Soldiers With Coupons 23
9. Letter, April 12, 1945, Weiner to Stetler . 24
10. Letter, April 5, 1945. Statler to Weiner 25
11. Letter, April 3, 1945, Weiner to Stetler . 25
12. Correspondence to be furnished by Zenas L. Potter 39
13. Announcement of examination for position of program director 68
14. Script on rent control 83
List of radio stations 38
in
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIV-
ITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 1945
House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Edward J. Hart (chairman)
presiding. Mr. Ernie Adamson, committee counsel.
The Chairman. Gentlemen, are we ready to proceed?
Mr. Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we go into executive
session. I think we should discuss some matters before we proceed.
I was hoping there would be more members of the committee here. I
move that we go into executive session.
The Chairman. You move that we proceed in executive session.
Is there a second?
Mr. MuRDOCK. I second the motion.
Mr. Thomas. On what question?
The Chairman, It is moved and seconded that the committee pro-
ceed in executive session.
Mr. Thomas. Wait a minute. We can discuss the motion. What
is the question?
Mr. Robinson. The question is whether we should continue the
hearings this morning or not.
Mr. Thomas. We have discussed that time after time. I don't see
any reason why we should go into executive session, particularly in
view of the fact that everything is all set to go ahead. I am opposed
to it.
The Chairman. Is there any further discussion?
Mr. Murdock. Mr. Chairman, what is the legislation for today?
Are you acquainted with it? '!<»
The Chairman. I understand that the OPA bill comes up today. ^
Mr. AIuRDocK. Will our hearings this morning have any effect on
that legislation?
The Chairman. That is a difficult question to answer.
Mr. Robinson. I think that is the very question we should discuss
and decide. I think it is unfortunate that we should be starting
hearings today and take the organization away from that matter.
Mr. Thomas. We were scheduled to start hearings a week ago, on
the 13th. •
Mr. Robinson. But this bill was not scheduled to come up then.
The Chairman. Is there any further discussion on the motion?
Mr. Thomas. Well, if you want to whitewash the whole thing, that
is up to you.
The Chairman. All those in favor of the motion will say "Aye";
those opposed, "No."
(The motion was put and carried.)
2 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
The motion is carried. The committee will proceed in executive
session.
(Whereupon, at 10:05 a. m., the committee went into executive
session. At 10:15 a. m. the committee resumed the hearing in open
session.)
The Chairman. The committee will be in order. You may pro-
ceed, Mr. Adamson.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, at
this hearing I wish to raise before the committee some evidence in
connection with numerous complaints we have received against the
script radio broadcast of the New York region of the OPA. We are
informed that these scripts are prepared by a man named Tex Weiner.
Mr. Chairman, I understand that Mr. Bowles wishes to get away to
another committee meeting, and, therefore, I want to put him on first
and let him go.
The Chairman. Very well.
(Whereupon the witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
TESTIMONY OF CHESTER BOWLES, ADMINISTRATOR, OFFICE. OF
PRICE. ADMINISTRATION
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Bowles, will you give your full name and official
title for the record?
Mr. Bowles. Mr. Chester Bowles, Price Administrator, Office of
Price Administration.
Mr. Adamson. And can you tell us briefly the organization with
regard to your office and the regional office in New York? As I under-
stand it, the country is divided into regions.
Mr. Bowles. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us what supervision and control your
office here in Washington exercises over the regional office in New
York?
Mr. Bowles. We have nine regional offices, of which New York is
one, and under those regional offices are the various district offices.
There are 93 of those. We appoint here in Washington the nine
regional administrators. The regional administrator then appoints
his own staff and the district directors under him. The district direc-
tors then appoint their own staff.
The supervision from this Office — first of all, we have delegated as
much as we can — we have gone a long way in the last 2 years in
delegation. An indication of that is that we have about 800 fewer
people in our Washington Office today than we had 2 years ago, when
the Office of Price Administration was organized.
The regional heads are responsible for operations in their region.
The policies are set down in Washington and then handed on down
to the regional staffs, the district directors, to carry out, and we
naturally keep a general lookout to see that they are carried out, and
in general I feel that they are carried out well.
Mr. Adamson. Do you have the final authority to employ and also
to discharge employees, even in the regional offices?
Mr. Bowles. No; that is up to the regional administrator. We
appoint the regional administrator and he appoints his own staff.
On major personnel he will check that personnel with us. If there is
any case, however, on which we may disagree, it is entirely up to him
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 3
to appoint liis own staff. I believe that when a man is put in charge
of a region or department or district he should have full authority
over his own operations and his own personnel.
Mr. Adamson. Briefly stated then, you don't feel that you have
authority to step in and either employ or discharge a particular man
in a region office or staff of that regional director?
Mr. Bowles. Naturally, that is true; no. But naturally, if we
have felt anything was going wrong or was being handled badly, we
would call it to the attention of the regional administrator and hold
him responsible for making it right. I would like to add that I am
very confident of the regional administrator for New York.
Mr. Adamson. Have you a man here, an assistant in your Office
this morning, who will stay in the hearing in case we need him?
Mr. Bowles. Yes, Mr. Potter, who is assistant to me.
Mr. Adamson. What is his full name?
Mr. Bowles. Zenas L. Potter.
Mr. Adamson. Wliat is his official title?
Mr. Bowles. He is head of our congressional relations group,
which works with Congress on many problems. He represents pretty
well the whole operation of OPA in that job.
Mr. Adamson. May I ask you if you are acquainted with the man
involved here in this matter more directly, that is, Tex Weiner?
Mr. Bowles. No; I haven't met him. I don't know him.
Mr. Rankin. What is the answer?
Mr. Bowles. I don't know him.
Mr. Adamson. Do you know of your own knowledge whether he
was ever employed by your firm, Benton & Bowles?
Mr. Bowles. I never heard of it. I am quite certain he was not —
or it is possible he might have been. As a matter of fact, that wUl
be easy to check up. I never heard of him until I heard of him here.
Mr. Adamson. You have a large number of employees?
Mr. Bowles. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And you don't know each one of them personally?
Mr. Bowles. No; I do not. If he had any major position there
while I was there — I haven't been there for 4 years — I wouldn't know
about it.
Mr. Adamson. You don't think he had a major position, Mr.
Bowles?
Mr. Bowles. I never heard his name until I heard it in connection
with this case.
Mr. Thomas. Let's get that cleared up. Does counsel want the
record to show that he was employed?
Mr. Adamson. We will show later on that he used to work for
Benton & Bowles, but since Mr. Bowles doesn't know him, doesn't
know anything about him, I don't know what I could ask him about
him.
Mr. Rankin. What business is this firm of Benton & Bowles in?
Mr. Bowles. Advertising, marketing advertising.
Mr. Rankin,. Where are they located?
Mr. Bowles. In New York,
Mr. Adamson. You also have an office in California, haven't you,
Mr. Bowles?
Mr. Bowles. I believe they have. I am not sure. They used to.
I haven't been there in 4 years. I am completely out of touch with it.
4 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. That is in Hollywood, I believe?
Mr. Bowles. Used to have one there.
Mr. Adamson. If I told you that I checked the advertising direc-
tory yesterday and it showed that you had an office in Hollywood at
least the first of this year, you would say that was correct, wouldn't
you?
Mr. Bowles. I assume they still have one there, and it certainly
would be correct.
Mr. Adamson. And if I told you that the directory also showed
you as vice chairman of the board of this advertising agency, would
that be correct?
Mr. Bowles. That is correct. I have since asked them to take
my name off.
Mr. Adamson. How recently did that happen?
Mr. Bowles. Within the last week or so. I don't think I have
been in there twice since I have been working for the Government
the last 4 years.
Mr. Adamson. I am not questioning that fact, Mr. Bowles. I
merely want to clear up the things that appear of record. You are
known in the advertising agencies, and you say that up until last
week your name did appear as vice chairman of the board of this
advertising agency. That is quite a large advertising agency, isn't
it, Mr. Bowles?
Mr. Bowles. It is.
Mr. Adamson. They have done pretty well, haven't they, in
business?
Mr. Bowles. They have done better since I left. [Laughter.]
Mr. Rankin. Are you still connected with it, Mr. Bowles?
Mr. Adamson. He says he quit last week.
Mr. Bowles. I have had no operating connection with it for the
last several years.
Mr. Rankin. With the firm of Benton <fe Bowles?
Mr. Bowles. I have had no operating connection with it.
Mr. Rankin. You are out of the firm now?
Mr. Bowles. I am busy selling my stock and getting out of it just
as fast as I can.
Mr. Adamson. And effective last week you notified them to take
your name off of the register?
Mr. Bowles. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Are you acquainted with the advertising firm of
J. Walton Thompson?
Mr. Bowles. A very fine firm.
Mr. Adamson. And I suppose you know they represent Standard
Brands? Is that correct?
Mr. Bowles. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. What contract or contracts, do you know, do Benton
& Bowles hold with Standard Brands?
Mr. Bowles. I don't know of any.
Mr. Adamson. If you don't know, just say so.
Mr. Bowles. I don't know of any. I don't think they do. I don't
know of any.
Mr. Adamson. But you have not had close contact with the business
recently?
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 5
Mr. Bowles. Not for 4 years. To be more exact, December 1941,
right after Pearl Harbor, when I went to work as a volunteer for the
Govermncnt.
Mr. Rankin. What is Standard Brands?
Mr. Bowles. They make various food products, Fleischmann's
yeast and several other products, Chase & Sanborn's coffee. I don't
know all the others.
Mr. Adamson. In conclusion, Mr. Bowles, I would like to say to
you that your office has been very cooperative in Washington and
has permitted our investigators to see the files, and they have told
them, I think, all the facts they knew. Unless the members of the
committee have further questions, that is all I have.
Mr. MuNDT. I would like to ask a question, Mr. Chairman. You
stated that your office had no authority to remove some employee
from a regional office? That is the fact, is it?
Mr. Bowles. Yes. What I said, Mr. Congressman, when I came
in here — I formerly worked in charge of the district office, the State
office. I started out as a volunteer and volunteered my services. I
tried to get into the Navy and they would not accept me, so I went
into this as a war job, and I was impressed when I was out there with
the fact that lots of times responsibility lay with the district office
and the regional office, but the responsibility or the authority for
every move made was right in Washington, and when I came down
here I felt that to go with that responsibility should be considerable
more authority, particularly over tljeir personnel. I don't think you
can ask a man to run an office and then appoint all of his staff for
him. I think the staff ought to feel responsibility to the head of the
office. That is just good businesslike procedure, and we have done
that. Obviously, if an office were badly managed, handled badly, or
it was evident that authority over people was misused, we naturally
step in. That would be our obligation to correct that.
]\Ir. Mundt. But in theory you may step in and remove the re-
gional administrator?
Mr. Bowles. That is right. I think that is the way a business
should operate.
Mr. MoTT. I agree with you. Just one other question. You
stated you did not think that your firm had any advertising contracts
with Standard Brands. You would not have any reason to know
whether they had a contract or not iu the past 4 years, would you?
Mr. Bowles. I would almost say 99.9 percent, I know they have
not, but there is a gentleman here from Standard Brands who I
think could answer that. I am very sure they have not.
Mr. Rankin. Mr. Bowles, you have had no desire to retain on the
Federal pay roll anyone who was subversive or engaged in subversive
activities, have you?
Mr. Bowles. Of course not, under no circumstances.
Mr. Rankin. And if you found such person on the pay roll, if the
testimony before this committee revealed that there was such a
person on the pay roll of your organization, you would see that they
were removed?
Mr. Bowles. I am sure that Mr. Wooley, regional administrator
in New York would be the first to say that.
Mr. Rankin. If he did not, you would be the first to do it?
83079 — 46 2
6 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Bowles. Yes, sir,
Mr. Adamson. After Mr. Wooley has had time and opportunity to
dig deeper into this matter?
Mr. Bowles. I know very Httle about it. As you might guess, I
have been a httle busy for the past 2 weeks.
Mr. Adamson. Yes. I am not condemning you for not knowing.
I just asked you if you had
Mr. Bowles (interposing). I would just like to add, though, that I
have full confidence in the people that do know.
Mr. Adamson. And if Mr. Wooley thinks that this man is all right
and is conducting himself properly up there, it is your disposition to
support Mr. Wooley's decision, not overrule him?
Mr, Bowles. It would be; yes.
Mr. Adamson. Regardless of what contentions were made here
concerning him?
Mr. Bowles. I think both Mr. Wooley and I would both take that
very deeply into consideration, naturally, and any facts that were
produced to the contrary, we would act on them.
Mr. Adamson. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Are there any further questions?
Mr. Rankin. But if you found that your confidence had been be-
trayed, you would step in and act?
Mr. Bowles. Certainly.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Bowles, has tliis matter been called to your
attention in the last 2 weeks by Mr. Wooley?
Mr. Bowles. Not by Mr. Wooley. I talked very briefly to Mr.
Wooley in Baltimore the other night and asked him a little bit about
it. I think I have heard about it in just the last 2 or 3 weeks. I
heard about it first through a member of our own radio group here
in Wasliington about 3 weeks ago, I would say. But I have not
looked into it.
Mr. Thomas. That member of the radio group, did he or she advise
that this man Weiner be discharged from OPA?
Mr. Bowles. Did she?
Mr. Thomas. Yes.
Mr. Bowles. No, very definitely not.
Mr. Thomas. Did she tell you that the broadcasts were absolutely
all right, that there was no Communist program in it?
Mr. Bowles. She said she had gone over them in some detail,
although it is not our real job in Washington to correct or change,
what we do is check facts down here, and we want to be certain that
the facts are right, as to factual information, for instance, on food
production or textiles, or clothing, where we have the facts or can
get them readily available thi^ough some other group. Now, the
actual writing of the program and all that is in the hands of the
regional office and up to them.
Mr. Thomas. What is this woman's name?
Mr. Bowles. Miss Eloise Daubenspeck.
Mr. MuRDOCK. Mr. Bowles, how many have you on your staff
throughout the entire country occupying a position similar to this
Max Weiner — or Tex Weiner?
Mr. Bowles. I think — well, I haven't got the figures here, but I
think that our total information staff, including stenographic help is,
roughly, about 350 or 400 people. And that is scattered all over the
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 7
United States. Their job is to keep people informed on regulations
and kee-p the public informed on point changes, notify businesses
and see that they are kept in touch. It is highly important work.
I have a great feeling that one of the poorest things this Government
does, really, is in getting the facts out on some of the work that they
do. I think if the average businessman knows what is expected of
him, or if the public knows what the rules are, they will follow them.
It is when they don't understand them, don't understand the reason
for them, that they are inclined sometimes not to go along, and I feel
that the better that work of keeping them informed is done, the less
problem you have on complaints, the more people go along with you
and help you and back you up and support you .
Mr. MuRDOCK. I agree with you thoroughly that we need more
accurate information, especially about these very difficult problems
that involve so many millions of us.
Mr. Bowles. The newspapers and radios both — I don't want to
magnify the job, but they have to get that factual information from
us, and that is what we have to provide.
Mr. Rankin. Don't you think it is bad practice to have someone
on yom- pay roll representing, you might say, the Federal Govern-
ment, to be broadcasting on the pay roll of someone else, some private
enterprise? Don't you think that ought to be separated and people
ought to be given factual information without having the cost paid
as an advertisement of some private enterprise?
Mr. Bowles. If it were colored, Mr. Rankin, I certainly would think
that, and I know that Standard Brands is one of the respected com-
panies of the country, and I am sure they would not attempt to color it.
You can go into that, but I am very positive in my own feeling both
as to their integrity and point of view, and we have such a big job to
do, that whenever we can get any help, we are glad to get it. Lots of
people have come forward and offered to help us in any possible way
to get the facts out.
Mr. Rankin. One of the great problems before Congress is protect-^
ing the American people from abuses over the radio.
Mr. Bowles. That is right. *
Mr. Rankin. It is at the point now where anyone can invade the
average home and advertise anything from intoxicating liquors up
and down, and the average Christian home has no way of protecting
itself. Now, from my viewpoint, these broadcasts dealing out gov-
ernmental information should be entirely separated, at least from
private enterprise.
Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Bowles, how generally do you follow the practice
of using information people who are serving two masters, that is, the
Federal Government master No. 1, and some private enterprise master
No. 2? It seems to me that is a difficult policy.
Mr. Bowles. I would not think that that happens. They are
working for us and for the Federal Government, and the only thing
there at the time was— I don't know the details of it— Mr. Wooley
and the representatives of Standard Brands can tell you about it,
but they simply furnished the time, and I am very sure, knowing the
company as I do, that there would be no interference in what was said.
Mr. MuNDT. I am not advised that there was any interference,
but I am inclined to be critical of the policy as a rather loose one, to
use such information 100 percent. Those are tremendously impor-
8 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
tant jobs. They speak for the Government. They speak Holy Writ
to a lot of people, and if they are contaminating the airways with
propaganda of a subversive nature, that is a fearful situation.
Mr. Bowles. I agree with you.
Mr. MuNDT. Even aside from that, because they are pontificating
with the power of the Federal Government behind them, if they are
on somebody else's pay roll, using somebody else's radio time, it
seems to me there is tremendous danger of flashing the news to com-
mercialize somebody's product or for some other reason. I think
that — and you think so because you are doing that — you have got to
be pure as Caesar's wife if you have got this job. You can't even be
suspect of making any commercial profits out of it.
Mr. Bowles. That is right.
Mr. MuNDT. And I just wish you would get informers and pay
them sufficiently so they don't have to chisel around on somebody
else's radio time or hold a hand behind their backs and get part of
their salary from somebody else.
Mr. Bowles. I don't think there is any question of that. Their
whole salary comes from the Government, and they are clearly for
the Government.
Mr. MuNDT. They are using radio time that somebody else pays
for.
Mr. Bowles. That is right, but I think you will find that Standard
Brands — and Mr. Wooley can tell you more about it — is completely
divorced from it.
Mr. MuNDT. They just donate the time?
Mr. Bowles. Entirely.
The Chairman. The broadcaster receives no salary or pay of any
kind from the sponsors when he is employed broadcasting for OPA?
Mr. Bowles. Oh, no.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Bowles, would you mind if I refreshed your
recollection on one point? I think it ought to be cleared up. I
believe you said that you had never heard of this fellow Weiner until
recently. Is it true that on November 23, 1944, Mr. Elmer Davis,
head of the Office of War 'Information, wrote you a personal letter
complaining about the activities of Mr. Weiner, and on December4
you replied to Mr. Davis and said:
When I received your letter of November 23 regarding the broadcast of the
radio script Soldiers with Coupons, by OPA in New York, I immediately asked
for an investigation of the matter.
We have been in touch with Mr. Weiner and have told him that, regardless of
the reasons, never again is he to allow the broadcast of a script with OWI clearance.
So you probably did hear about this gentlemen's activities before.
Mr. Bowles. I undoubtedly did. I don't remember the latter. I
would not investigate myself, naturally, but would have somebody
else do it. So far as Mr. Weiner's name is concerned, it was a fresh
name to me when I heard it a few weeks ago.
Mr. Adamson. Is one of your assistants named Jack O'Brien?
Mr. Bowles. Yes, he is one of the information people.
Mr. Adamson. And on December 2, 1944, I suppose that at your
direction, Mr. O'Brien wrote a memorandum to Mr. James Rogers,
Deputy Administrator. Who is Mr. James Rogers?
Mr. Bowles. He is Deputy Administrator of OPA. He has been
there since I have been there. He used to be with OWI, formerly
Deputy Administrator of OWI.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 9
Mr. Adamson. And he would be directly under you?
Mr. Bowles. That is right, one of my two principal assistants,
Jim Brownlee and Jim Rogers. On this point the memorandum says:
The point was stressed that if Mr. Weiner had any more trouble with OWI
over his radio scripts, it would be necessary for us to ask for his resignation.
Both Mr. V^'^einer and Mr. Mencher promised there would be no further trouble.
These were taken from your files through the courtesy of your
Office. And I would like, Mr. Chairman, to offer them as exhibits
here, so. that the whole matter may be together.
The Chairman. They may be received.
Mr. Adamson. There are four of them. How do you want them
marked, Mr. Chairman; shall we mark them 1, 2, 3?
The Chairman. I think that would be the best way.
Mr. Adamson. I will ask to have the letter of November 23, 1944,
marked exhibit 1. Mr. Bowles referred to Mr. Davis' letter dated
December 4, 1944, No. 2; the memorandum of December 2, 1944,
from Jack O'Brien to James Rogers marked No. 3; and the letter
from Mr. Tex Weiner, dated December 1, 1944, marked No. 4.
(The letters referred to were marked exhibits 1 to 4, inclusive, as
indicated.)
Exhibit 1
Office of War Information,
Office of the Director,
Washington 25, D. C, November 23, 1944.
Chester Bowles,
Administrator, Office of Price Administration,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Mr. Bowles: At 9:45 p. m. on Wednesday, November 22, over radio
station WXEW, New York, the New York office of the Office of Price Adminis-
tration broadcast a radio script entitled "Soldiers With Coupons" without obtain-
ing the required clearance from our Radio Bureau.
As you know, this constitutes a direct violation of Presidential Executive
Order No. 9182, section 4, subsection (d), which states that the Director of
the Office of War Information shall "review, clear, and approve all proposed
radio and motion picture programs sponsored by Federal departments and
agencies * * *."
In the present instance, the violation was knowing and deliberate. Mr. Tex
Weiner, writer of the script and radio-program director for the regional office of
OP A in New York has been repeatedly advised by the clearance officer of our
Radio Bureau that unless his scripts (for Wednesday broadcast) reached the
clearance section in good time, clearance might be physically impossible. For
the past 4 weeks, however, the scripts have not arrived in Washington until the
actual day of broadcast in New York. On the day in question, November 22,
when the script had not arrived by 4 p. m., Mr. Weiner was notified that since it
was not in our hands clearance could obviously not be given, and that the program
consequently could not be broadcast.
Mr. Weiner apparently refused to acquiesce in this ruling, and broadcast the
uncleared program at 9:45 p. m.; the script ultimately reached Washington at
10:30 a. m., Thursday morning.
I should be obliged if you would take up this matter with the members of
your New York staff concerned in the strongest possible terms, pointing out the
direct violation of the President's Executive order, and perhaps mentioning that
this is the first time the order has been deliberately violated by any Government
agency.
Since the integrity of the entire Government clearance operation involving over
40 agencies is at stake here, may I hear from you at your earliest convenience
what action has been taken?
Very truly,
Elmer Davis, Director.
10 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Exhibit 2
December 4, 1944.
The Honorable Elmer Davis,
Director, Office of War Information, Washington, D. C.
Dear Mr. Davis: VHien I received your letter of November 23, regarding the
broadcast of the radio script Soldiers With Coupons, by OPA in New York, I
immediately asked for an investigation of the matter.
We have been in touch with Mr. Weiner and have told him that — regardless of
the reasons — never again is he to allow the broadcast of a script without OWI
clearance.
Upon explanation, Mr. Weiner, recognizes his mistake. I have a letter before
me from him asking me to assure your office that "nothing of this sort will ever
happen again."
Rest assured that our intention is to see that OPA cooperates with OWI to
the fullest extent. Each one of our regions and districts knows of that point of
view and I feel sure there will be no more slips.
Sincerely,
Chester Bowles,
Administrator,
Exhibit 3
December 2, 1944.
Memorandum.
To: Mr. James Rogers, Deputy Administrator.
From: Jack O'Brien, Director, Field Division, Department of Information.
As a follow-up of my telephone conversation with Mr. Tex Weiner because of
his difficulties with OWI on clearance of the radio script Soldiers With Coupons,
I had a meeting in the New York regional office with Regional Information Execu-
tive Mencher and Mr. Weiner. The point was stressed that if Mr. Weiner had
any more trouble with OWI over his radio scripts, it would be necessary for us to
ask for his resignation. Both Mr. Weiner and Mr. Mencher promised there
would be no further trouble. A letter from Mr. Weiner to me about the incident
is attached.
I trust this handling of the case will be satisfactory. Let me know if there is
anything further you wish done.
Exhibit 4
Office of Price Administration,
N'ew York 1, N. Y., December 1, 1944-
Mr. Jack O'Brien,
Chief of Field Operations, Department of Information,
Office of Price Administration, Washington 25, D. C.
Dear Mr. O'Brien: Following your verbal request for an explanation of my
broadcasting the radio show Soldiers With Coupons, November 22, without OWI
clearance, I should like to make the following statement.
After you exijlained the implications of my action, I see that I acted ill-advisedly.
However, I want you to know that it was because of the very best intentions, and
if my action will do anything to jeopardize the very friendly and cooperative rela-
tionships this agency has with OWI, I am very sorry.
As I told you, OWI has been most cooperative and helpful with us in our radio
work in the New York region. Because of that very splendid relationship I acted
as I did, assuming that the responsibility of putting on the show was placed on
my shoulders and that I should be personally responsible for any incorrect policy
statements that might be made. I did not understand a definite instruction not
to go on with the show. OWI could have told the radio station the show had been
■cleared. There would be no possibility of broadcasting.
However, whatever the reasons for my action, I had no thought of acting without
proper clearance. Please advise the Washington OWI people that nothing of this
sort will happen again. I am going to get my scripts to OWI in advance of showing
so that ample time will be available for clearances.
Let me again stress the fact that OWI has been most cooperative and helpful
to me in our regional radio work. I intend to maintain that friendly working
relationship at all costs.
Very truly yours,
Tex Weiner,
Regional Radio Director.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 11
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Bowles, who is Mr. Mencher?
Mr. Bowles. Mr. Menchor is the regional information executive
in New York, working for Mr. Wooley.
Mr. Adamson. Do you recall at this time whether or not Mr.
Weiner has come to your attention in any other matters or contro-
versy of this character? Is that the only one you know of?
Mr. Bowles. The first time I could tell you that I recollect hearing
his name was 3 or 4 weeks ago. The letter from Elmer Davis I
remember vaguely as you read it. That is a big organization, and
an awful lot of letters come in over a period of 6 months.
Mr. Adamson. And you do not clearly recall that incident?
Mr. Bowles. No; I do not. I remember it now that you read the
letter, that I did write it, and Mr. Potter, I think, could probably
give you full details of just what the letter was about and what
happened about it.
Mr. x^DAMsoN. Did you know that your assistant had condemned
some of ]Mr. Weiner's scripts very severely?
Mr. Bowles. I heard that they criticized some of them. I didn't
think from what they told me that it was particularly serious, but
they thought some of it was.
Mr. Adamson. Would you like to hear one of them as a sample
before you go?
Mr. Bowles. I would be delighted to. I never have.
Mr. Adamson. Do you have a radio director in each region of the
United States, or just in New York?
Mr. Bowles. We have a small staff in each regional office.
They have a dual job. They have the job of supervising information
throughout the whole region. I don't know whether each one has a
radioman particularly or not. Maybe some of the others would
know. I just don't know what their staff consists of. I assume
they probably do have someone there on the radio.
Mr. Adamson. Do you know whether or not a dramatic program
is permitted by the OPA in any region except New York?
Mr. Bowles. ^\'ell, I don't think the question has come up. I
don't think there is any objection to it basically, but I don't know
of any others. There may be. I am pretty sure there are, as a
matter of fact.
Mr. Adamson. The New York region is ihe only region where the
OPA puts out a dramatic program.
Mr. Bowles. It is? ^Vell, I didn't know that. That is not a
matter of policy.
Mr. Adamson. Before you go, I would like to get your opinion on
a sample memorandum — which, by the way, is a photostat from your
files with the cooperation of your Office; the gentleman's name here
is apparently Sam Braunt. He says:
Again, the whole tone of the script is bad, negative, ugly. Moreover, it
doesn't prove anything except perhaps that OPA is a gestapo organization. Why
can't they get really constructive, educational stories, into these scripts, and a
tone that builds good will for OPA, instead of just this negative approach? To
take the same tone as the scripts, if this depends on mv OK, "it ain't got it no-
how."
Now, could you give us your personal opinion as to the tone of a
progiam that has been criticized in that way by your Office?
Mr. Bowles. Well, I didn't know it had. I think you have got to
go into it a little more carefully than one memorandum.
12 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. We have got a lot of them, but I don't want to de-
tain you here, but could you give us
Mr. Bowles (interposing). I think I would take Mr. Wooley's
judgment on a thing of that kind. I think his judgment is pretty
good, and I think he carries a big responsibility, both now and then,
and I think he can probably answer that.
Mr. Adamson. Did you know that Mr. Weiner frequently ignored
the editorial changes made by your staff in his script?
Mr. Bowles. I hear that there are comments made. Those are
not basically changes, as I understand.
Mr. Adamson. Well, he ignores the comments of your editorial
staff.
Mr. Bowles. We have no evidence to that effect, Mr. Adamson.
Mr. Adamson. I just wanted to know if you are familiar with that.
If not, all right.
Mr. Bowles. No; I am not.
Mr. Adamson. We will show that.
The Chairman. That will be all right, after it is shown.
Mr. Adamson. That is all I have of Mr. Bowles.
Mr. Rankin. Mr. Bowles, don't you think that a Government
agency ought to hold a tight rein over any of its employees using the
radio?
Mr. Bowles. Well, I think we ought to be extremely careful. Of
course, I do.
Mr. Rankin. A general in the Army told me more than a year and
a half ago that if he were to give out the information that certain
broadcasters — Drew Pearson is one of them — give out over the radio
something that evidently comes from some secret source in the Depart-
ment, he would be court-martialed before sunrise, and that that infor-
mation was picked up by short-wave all over Europe and probably
cost the lives of many of our American, boys. Now, don't you think
that any governmental agency or governmental department that has
a representative broadcasting over the country ought to hold a very
tight rein over that individual and see that he not only does not give
out military secrets but that he does not make broadcasts that are
subversive or destructive of confidence in the Government of the
United States?
Mr. Bowles. I certainly agree with your general statement. But
I think this: You have got a big organization; you can't handle it all
from W ashington. Frequently I find that people in general, and Con-
gress, believe in decentralization. I think you can get too much
government in "Washington and too many lines running to a few desks
here in this city, and I do not think that is right. I think you have
got to get people you have got confidence in and give them authority
to use their good judgment. I have got all the confidence in the world
in. the good judgment in an operation, of this kind of Mr. Wooley.
Mr. Rankin. You understand I am approaching this individual
case without any information on it at all, because I know nothing
about it. I am just speaking of the general policy.
Mr. Bowles. I sincerely don't think Mr. Wooley or anybody else
would at all disagree with you on that.
Mr. Rankin. If these abuses of radio continue, Congress is going
to have to step in.
Mr. Bowles. They should, of course.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 13
Mr. Rankin. And drastically revise the entire law governing radio
broadcasts.
Mr. Bowles. Of course, I am not familiar with the broadcasts. I
think Mr. A\'ooley is; and I think that somebody will be glad to look
into it. But I agree with your generality, of course.
The Chairman. Are there any further questions?
Mr. MuRDOCK. Mr. Bowles, could you tell us about how many
individuals are offering their services, volunteering their services to
the Administrator of OPA?
Mr. Bowles. We have, roughly, 200,000 volunteers, serving with-
out pay. More volunteers have already offered their services during
the month of May 1945, after VE-day than they did in the previous
May. Those people have worked their heads off for very little thanks,
or no thanks. Some of them have even been kicked around a little
bit. They work long, tedious hours for the war effort.
I would also like to add on this question of advertisers in general,
that I think the advertisers have done a very magnificent job in
helping the Government all the way through. Without them I don't
hardly know how we would have done a lot of the work. Through
the Advertising Advisorv Council they have put all their resources
at the command of OWI, and they have done a tremendous job in
explaining shortages, explaining the various problems that come up
to the country, getting a line on complaints, ratio points, buying over
ceiling. They have spent a great many millions of dollars of their
own money during the war to help the Government, and I think
they deserve a lot of thanks for it.
So far as volunteers are concerned, we have many more volunteers,
five times as many, as we have paid people. As a matter of fact,
three-fourths of our paid people served first as volunteers. Your
local board chairman was a volunteer, and he has full authority over
his staff there, the paid people and the volunteers also. Two-thkds
to three-fourths of all the paid people are working under volunteers.
I don't think there has ever been a volunteer organization to the
extent that OPA has been.
The Chairman. May I suggest that questions be kept in line with
the purpose of tliis hearing? This is not an interrogation into the
general conduct of OPA nor the patriotism of volunteers that are
helping the Government. We have a specific problem before us, and
let us confine ourselves to that question.
Mr. Murdock. The point I wanted to make was that it is not
unusual to find one rotten apple in the barrel, and I am just as anxious
as you could possibly be to get that rotten apple out, if there should
be one in the barrel.
Mr. Bowles. If the apple is rotten.
The Chairman. Are there any further questions? Thank you, Mr.
Bowles.
Mr. Adamson. I would like to call Mr. D. B. Stetler, who is adver-
tising manager of Standard Brands. I also wish to say that Mr.
Stetler's office has cooperated with us very nicely, and he called up
the advertising agency, J. Walter Thompson, and instructed them,
or rather, autliorized them, to provide the committee with photo-
static copies of the rate contract and the pay roll.
The Chairman. Mr. Stetler, will you be sworn?
83079 — 16 3
14 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
TESTIMONY OF D. B. STETLER, WHITE PLAINS, N. Y., ADVER-
TISING DIRECTOR, STANDARD BRANDS, INC.
(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler, please state where you live and for
whom you work.
Mr. Stetler. I live in White Plains, N. Y. I work for Standard
Brands, Inc., 595 Madison Avenue, New York City.
Mr. Adamson. How long have you been so employed?
Mr. Stetler. With Standard Brands and preceding companies,
since 1926.
Mr. Adamson. Then you were there before Mr. Wooley retired,
were you not?
Mr. Stetler. Oh, yes.
Mr. Adamson. Were you one of Mr. Wooley's subordinates when
he left?
Mr. Stetler. That's right.
Mr. Adamson. By the way, was Mr. Wooley advertising manager?
I thought he was vice president.
Mr. Stetler. He was vice president in charge of advertising and
sales.
Mr. Adamson. I beg your pardon. You are the advertising
manager, but you are not vice president; is that correct?
Mr. Stetler. I am advertising director. I am not a vice president.
Mr. Adamson. I want to show you the photostatic copies of radio
contract by 3^our company with J. Walter Thompson Co., and also a
couple of sample pay rolls which will answer the chairman's question,
by the way, about how this dramatic play is paid for, and ask you if
these are true copies [handing papers to the witness]?
Mr. Stetler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the contract,
dated April 13, 1945, marked "Exhibit No. 5."
The Chairman. It will be received.
Mr. Adamson. And the contract dated April 16, 1945, marked
"Exhibit 6."
The Chairman. It will likewise be admitted.
(The contract between J. Walter Thompson Co. and Standard
Brands Inc., dated April 13, 1945, was marked "Exhibit 5," and the
agreement between the Bamberger Broadcasting Service, Inc., and
J. Walter Thompson Co., dated April 16, 1945, was marked "Ex-
hibit 6.")
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 15
Exhibit 5
Standard Contract for Spot Broadcasting (Member of A. A. A. A.)
(Standard Conditions 1942. See Over)
J. Walter Thompson Co.
New York, Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco, Hollywood, Los Angeles, Seattle,
and Principal Cities Abroad
NEW YORK 17, 420 LEXINGTON AVENUE '
[Duplicate for station acceptance— Please sign and return to agency]
To management of station: WOR. Contract No. 5220.
City and State: New York, N. Y. Date: April 13, 1945.
Please furnish broadcasting facilities to [advertiser] Standard Brands Incorpo-
R.\TED.
For [product] .Name of program: "Soldiers With Coupons."
Length of broadcast: 15 minutes. Hour: 6:15-6:30 p. m. Days: Tuesday.
Times per week: 1. Total No. times: 13 (13 wks.).
Program subject to removal should WOR sell 6:15-6:30 p. m. Monday through
Friday.
NO CHANGES IN SCHEDULE ARE TO BE MADE WITHOUT ADVANCE APPROVAL FROM US
Commencement date: May 1, 1945. Expiration date July 24, 1945.
Program material arrangements: Bills will be paid promptly upon receipt of
satisfactory proof of performance including schedule showing programs preced-
ing and following each commercial.
Commercial announcements: See clause No. 2 on reverse side hereof regarding
termination.
Continuitv: To be sent you. Live talent: Program to be furnished to station by
the OPA.
Additional instructions: This contract may be extended for additional periods
(either consecutive or otherwise) within one year from May 1, 1945, on the
basis of rates now in effect as shown herein. Additional discovmts, if any, •
will be allowed from May 1, 1945, depending on the number of broadcasts within
one year. In the event of a rate increase during the period of this contract
the above client will be protected for one year from effective date of rate increase.
Rates: Station charge Talent Line service Other charges Total
Each broadcast: $340. 00 $ $ $ $4, 420. 00
For 13 broadcasts: $ $ $ $ $
Less time discount: Less agency commission: 15% of station charge
% %of talent charge
Subject to standard conditions on back hereof.
J. Walter Thompson Co., New York.
Per LiNNEA Nelson
Accepted for station WOR by Ligett Thomas.
Subject to the terms and conditions of WOR's formal agreement dated April
16, 1945.
LB Member of American Association of Advertising Agencies
Standard Contract for Spot Broadcasting "A. A. A. A. Form"
CopjTight 1942 .American Association of Advertising Agencies
(over)
16 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
[Reverse side]
Standard Conditions
governing contracts for spot broadcasting
Adopted 1933 and Revised 1942 by
American Association of Advertising Agencies and National Association of
Broadcasters
1. Payment
[a] The agency agrees to pay, and the broadcasting station agrees to hold the
agency solely liable for payment, for the broadcasting covered by this contract
unless expressly otherwise agreed in writing.
[b] The agency personally agrees to pay for broadcasting covered by this
contract, at the office of the broadcasting station or of its authorized representa-
tive, on or before the last day of the month following that in which the broad-
casting is done unless otherwise stipulated on the face of this contract; or, when
cash discount is deducted but payment date not specified on the face of the con-
tract, on the fifteenth of the month following. ,
[c] In all cases date of payment is mater'al and unless otherwise stipulated
the postmark date on the envelope properly addressed to the broadcasting station
or to its representative shall be considered the date when payment was made.
[d] Station's invoices for broadcasting covered by this contract shall be in
accordance with the station's log and shall so state on each such invoice.
[e] Invoices should be rendered not less often than monthly.
[f] Affidavits of performance shall be furnished by station on request of agency.
[g] The station reserves the right to cancel the contract at any time upon de-
fault by the agency in the payment of bills, or other breach, or in the event of
any material violation on the part of the agency of any of the conditions herein
named; and upon such cancellation all broadcasting done hereunder and unpaid
shall become immediately due and payable. In case of delinquency in payments
or impaired credit the station shall have the right to change the requirements as
to terms of payment for further broadcasting under this contract as it mav see
fit.
2. Termination and renewal
[a] This contract may be terminated by either party by giving the other
fourteen (14) days' prior written notice; provided that no such notice shall be
effective until fourteen (14) days after start of broadcast service hereunder.
If agency so terminates this contract it will pay station according to station's
rate card on which this contract is based for the lesser number of periods, for all
services previously rendered by station. If station so terminates this contract,
agency will then either agree with station on a satisfactory substitute day or time
for continuance of broadcasts covered by this contract at the card rates on which
this contract is based for such substitute time, or, if no such agreement can be
reached agency will pay station according to the rates specified herein, for all
services previously rendered by station; that is, the agency shall have the benefit
of the same discounts which the agency would have earned had it been allowed to
complete the contract. In the event of termination hereunder neither party
shall be liable to the other party otherwise than as specified in this paragraph,
and in paragraph 6 hereof.
[b] The broadcast time (or times) covered by the contract may be renewed by
the agency by giving station two (2) weeks' written notice prior to the expiration
of the contract or any extension thereof.
3. Inability to broadcast
[a] Should the station, due to public emergency or necessity, legal restrictions,
act of God, or for any other reason beyond the control of the station, be unable
to broadcast one or a part of any one of the agency's programs at the time speci-
fied, the station shall not be liable to agency except to the extent of allowing in
such case either (1) a pro rata reduction in the time charges liereunder, or (2) if
an interruption occurs during the commercial announcement portion of any
1 rcadcast a credit to agency in the same proportion to the total station time
charge which the omitted commercial portion bears to the total conimercial
portion of the broadcast, it being mutually agreed that station shall credit agency
on whichever basis is more favorable to agency. In the event of such emission
station will upon agency's request make a suitable courtesy announcement as
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 17
to such omission. Such omissioii or interruption shall not affect rates of discount:
that is, the agency shall have the benefit of the same discounts which the agency
would have earned had it been allowed to complete the contrg,ct. If the inter-
ruption equals or exceeds 50% of the total program time the station shall defray a
pro rata share of the live talent costs, unless the interruption is due to an act of
God, public emergency or legal restriction.
4. Substitution of programs of public importance
[a] The station sliall have the right to cancel any broadcast covered by this
contract in order to broadcast a sustaining program which it deems to be of
public importance. In such case, the station will notify the agency, in advance
if possible; but in any case immediately after such broadcast, that agency's
program lias been cancelled.
[b] The station, provided it has first secured the approval of agency as far
in advance as possible, may also cancel any broadcast covered by this contract
and substitute a commercial broadcast of public importance.
[c] In the case of a cancelled program, whether for the substitution of a sus-
taining program or a commercial program, the agency and the station will agree on
a satisfactory substitute day or time for the broadcast, or, if no such agreement
can be reached, the broadcast will be considered as cancelled without affecting the
rates, discounts, or rights shown on this contract, except that agency shall not be
required to pay for the cancelled program.
[d] In the event of such cancellation or postponement, the station will make,
if approved by the agency, a suitable courtesy announcement as to the reason for
cancellation or postponement and as to any substituted time agreed upon, and
the station shall reimburse the agencj' any noncancellable cost of live talent.
5. Rates
[a] It is agreed that the rate named in this contract is the lowest rate made by
the station for like services and that if at any time during the life of this contract
the station makes a lower rate for the same services, this contract shall be com-
pleted at such lower rate from that date.
[b] All rates shall be published. There shall be no secret rates, rebates, or
agreements affecting rates. All rates shall be furnished agencies if requested.
[c] If this contract is continued be.vond the time specified herein, the additional
broadcasts shall be considered part of this contract and the same rate shall apply
until any lower rate prevailing at the time this contract is made shall have been
earned: and then such lower rate shall apply to the whole contract. This pro-
vision shall not, however, cover a service rendered by station later than one year
from the date of the first broadcast.
[d] In the event of revision of station rates or discounts, this contract may be
extended at the rates and discounts herein shown without penalty of short rate
or discounts on previous broadcasts hereunder, for a period of not more than
fifty-two (52) weeks from the effective date of such revision; provided, however,
that such extension is executed not later than thirty (30) days after the effective
date of such revision.
[e] In the event agency contracts with station for additional time for the
advertiser hereunder the rates and discounts shown on the rate card on which this
contract is based shall apply to such additional time for a period of fifty-two (52)
weeks from the effective date of any revision of rates or discounts.
[f] All broadcasts placed with station for the advertiser within one year from
the date of the first broadcast hereunder shall be combined for the purpose of
calculating the total amount of frequency discounts earned, provided, however,
that announcements cannot be .so combined with five (5) mimite or longer pro-
grams.
6. Programs
[a] The contract for station time- includes the services of the technical staff
and of a regular staff announcer. Other talent and service charges, if any, are
covered in this contract and such charges are subject to change by the agency
with the consent of the station.
fb] Should the station fail to receive program material seven days in advance
of the broadcast it shall so notify tlie agency. Subsequent to this notification,
if the station fails to receive the program material in time for the broadcast, if
the programs are transcriptions, the station shall, following first broadcast, repeat
a previous program unless otherwi.se in.structed, or unless program is one of a
series, in which case the station shall have the right to announce the name, address,
18 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
and business classification of the advertiser, produce a creditable program and
make regular charge for station time and reasonable talent charge to the agency.
If the programs are produced locally it shall, following first broadcast, repeat the
commercial announcement of- the preceding broadcast, using the agreed talent
unit.
[cj Except as otherwise hereinafter expressly provided the agency will save
the station harmless against all liability for libel, slander, illegal competition or
trade practice, infringement of trade-marks, trade names or program titles, viola-
tion of rights of privacy and infringement of copyrights and proprietory rights,
resulting from the broadcasting of the programs herein provided for in the form
furnished by the agency. The station agrees, however, to save the agency and
advertiser harmless against all such liability where the programs are prepared
and produced both as to artists and program content by the station excepting
only such liability as may result from the broadcasting of the commercial credits
and other material as furnished by the agency. Station will save agency and
advertiser harmless against all such liability with respect to music on station-
built programs. Station will save agency and advertiser harn less against all
such liability with respect to m\isic on agency-built programs provided such music
has been cleared and approved for broadcasting by a licensor designated by station.
Agency will save station harmless against all such liability with respect to music
on agency-built programs if such music has not been cleared and approved for
broadcasting by a licensor designated by station.
[d] Notwithstanding the indemnitor (party hereto on whom duty of defense
is imposed) shall have assumed the defense of any litigation hereunder, the
indemnitee, upon relieving the indemnitor in writing of its obligations hereunder
with respect to such litigation, shall have the right, if it shall so elect, thereafter
to conduct the same at its expense by its own counsel. It is understood, however,
that by common consent, the litigation and the responsibility of the parties hereto
may be handled in some other way. The indemnitor upon request shall keep
the indemnitee fully advised with respect thereto and confer with the indemnitee
or its counsel.
[e] Programs prepared by the agency are subject to the approval of the station
management both as to artists and to program content.
[f] The provisions of this paragraph shall survive any cancellation or termina-
tion of this contract.
7. General
[a] This contract is subject to the terms of licenses held by the parties hereto
and is also subject to all Federal, State and Municipal laws and regulations now
in force, or which may be enacted in the future.
[b] The rights under this contract shall not be transferable to another adver-
tiser than the one specified in this contract unless the consent of the station has
been obtained.
[c] In dealing with agencies, the station shall follow a uniform policy to avoid
discrimination.
[d] The agency agrees that it will not rebate to its client any part of the com-
mission allowed by the station.
[e] All requests by agency for station to handle audience mail must be sub-
mitted to station in advance and approved by station.
[f] The failure of the station or of the agency to enforce any of the provisions
herein listed with respect to a breach thereof in any one instance shall not be
construed as a general relinquishment or waiver under this agreement and the
same shall nevertheless be and remain in full force and effect.
Exhibit 6
Contract Between Bamberger Broadcasting Service, Inc., and J. Walter
Thompson Company & Standard Brands, Inc.
Date April 16th, 1^945
WOR
This Agreement, made this Sixteenth day of April, 1945, between Bamberger
Broadcasting Service, Incorporated, owner and operator of Station WOR (herein-
after called WOR), and J. Walter Thompson Company, 420 Lexington Avenue,
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 19
New York, New York, and Standard Brands, Inc., 595 Madison Avenue, New
York, New York, by said J. Walter Thompson Company (hereinafter collectively
called Sponsor).
The parties hereto mutually agree as follows:
BROADCAST PERIOD
1. WOR shall broadcast over Station WOR programs for Sponsor during the
following approximate periods of timfe: 14i4 minutes between 6:15 P. M. and
6:29:30 P. M., New York City time, on Tuesday of each week, for a term of 13
weeks beginning on Tuesday, Mav 1st, 1945 and ending on Tuesday, July 24th,
1945.
TERMINATION
2. Either party may terminate this agreement by giving at least
days' notice to the other party prior to the effective date of such termination.
PRODUCT AND ADVERTISER
3. Sponsor shall use such broadcasting time solely to advertise Institutional
of Standard Brands, Inc.
CHARGES
4. Sponsor shall pay to WOR the following charges which shall become payable
within fifteen (15) days following the end of the month in which any broadcast
hereunder takes place: Four thousand four hundred twenty dollars ($4,420) at
the rate of Three hundred forty dollars ($340) per week.
This contract covers use of time only. Program "Soldiers With Coupons" will
be supplied by the OPA.
DISCOUNTS AND REBATES
5. A. The gross time charges hereunder are subject (1) to the applicable weekly
discount set forth in WOR'S current Rate Card (the rate, discount and rebate
provisions of which are hereby made a part of this agreement) ; and (2) to the
annual rebate hereinafter set forth.
B. To ascertain the weekly discount for broadcasts during any week, the weekly
gross time charges for the broadcasts during such week shall be combined with the
weekly gross time charges of any other broadcasting time then used by the same
advertiser during such week, provided that such other time had been used for a
period of eight (8) or more consecutive weeks.
C. If the programs are broadcast liereunder for a period of fifty-two (52) con-
secutive weeks, and if Sponsor shall have paid all charges provided for hereunder,
then Sponsor shall receive an annual rebate, payable at the end of such period,
of ten percent (10%) of the following amount: The smallest weekly gross time
charge billed to Sponsor for broadcasts during said period, multiplied by fifty-two.
D. Any appropriation, omission, delay or interruption of any broadcast period
or program referred to in subparagraph A of paragraph 8 hereof shall not affect
rates of discounts or rebates.
E. If WOR is required to furnish the services of any "artist" (said term, without
limiting its generality, shall include a newscaster, commentator and amiouncer),
and if the cost to WOR of furnishing the services of such an artist shall be increased
by reason of the demands of any labor union, WOR shall have the right, upon
seven (7) days' written notice to Sponsor, to make a corresponding increase in the
charges hereunder. If Sponsor is unwilling to accept any such increase, Sponsor
may terminate this agreement on the date of such proposed increase by giving
WOR written notice of its intention so to do prior to the effective date of such
increase. Termination of this agreement pursuant hereto shall not affect rates of
discount.
ADVERTISING AGENCY COMMISSION
6. If this agreement is made with an advertising agency recognized by WOR, the
time charges, after deduction of all allowable discounts and rebates, if any, shall
subject to an advertising agency commission of fifteen percent (15%).
INDEMNITIES
7. A. Sponsor agrees to protect and indemnify WOR, its officers, agents, and
employees against any and all lialjility, loss, or expense arising from any claim or
litigation involving any charge by third persons of violation or infringement of
20 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
their rights resulting from the' broadcasting of the programs, except as a result of
the broadcast of any materials furnished by WOR. WOR's approval of any
materials, talent, or commercial announcements furnished by Sponsor for inclusion
in any broadcast will not affect Sponsor's liability hereunder; nor shall termina-
tion of this agreement discharge such obligations.
B. WOR agrees to protect and indemnify Sponsor, its officers, agents, and em-
ployees against any and all liability, loss, or expense arising from any claim or
litigation involving any charge by third persons of violation or infringement of
their rights resulting from the broadcasting of any materials furnished by WOR.
Termination of this agreement shall not discharge WOR's obligations hereunder.
APPROPRIATIONS AND OMISSIONS
8. A. Any failure by WOR to broadcast part or all of any program or any delay
or interruption in the broadcast of part or all of any program, due to (1) the
inability of WOR for any reason to furnish the entertainment or information
portion of any broadcast if any is required to be furnished by WOR hereunder,
or (2) acts of God, war, public emergency or necessity, defects or break-down of
lines or equipment, legal restrictions, or labor dispvites, or (3) appropriation of
part or all of any program to broadcast an event which WOR considers of public
importance, or (4) any cause (whether similar or dissimilar to the foregoing)
bevond the control of WOR, shall not constitute a breach of this agreement by
WOR.
B. WOR will use its best endeavors to give Sponsor as much notice as circum-
stances permit of any appropriation of part or all of any broadcast period to
broadcast events which WOR considers of public importance, and WOR will make
such courtesy announcements as circumstances reasonably permit.
C. In case of any appropriation, omission, delay, or interruption of any broad-
cast period or program referred to in subparagraph A or B of this paragraph 8,
WOR shall not be liable to Sponsor, except that Sponsor shall be entitled to a
pro rata refund of the time*charges hereunder based upon the ratio that the
omitted portion of the program bears to the entire scheduled broadcast period,
but, if occurring during the commercial announcement portion of any broadcast,
the refund shall be based upon the ratio that the omitted commercial portion bears
to the entire scheduled commercial portion of the program.
PROPRIETARY RIGHTS
9. WOR shall retain all property and proprietary rights whatsoever in any
material furnished by WOR for use in connection with the broadcasts hereunder.
PROGRAM CHANGES
10. A. As to any program of five (5) minutes or less duration: If WOR shall
give sponsor notice that the broadcast period is desired for a commercial program
of fifteen (15) minutes or more duration, and if Sponsor within forty-eight (48)
hours after the giving of such notice shall fail to give notice to WOR of Sponsor's
intention to broadcast the program as a fifteen-minute program, then (unless
prior thereto the parties shall have agreed in writing upon a satisfactory substitute
time for the broadcast) this agreement shall automatically come to an end on
the date specified in such notice, which shall be not less than fourteen (14) days
after the giving of such notice.
B. Where the term of broadcasting contracted for hereunder shall be for a
period of less than eight (8) weeks: If WOR shall give Sponsor notice that the
time is desired for another sponsor desiring to enter into a contract of more than
eight (8) weeks in duration, and if Sponsor within forty-eight (48) hours after
the giving of such notice shall fail to give notice to WOR of Sponsor's election to
continue to broadcast the program during a firm period of not less than eight (8)
weeks in duration, then (unless prior thereto the parties shall have agreed in
writing upon a satisfactory substitute time for the broadcast) this agreement
shall automatically come to an end on the date specified in such notice, which
shall be not less than fourteen (14) davs after the giving of such notice*"
C. Termination of this agreement in accordance with this paragraph 10 will
not affect the weekly discount rate.
DEFAULTS
11. If Sponsor shall fail to pav any sum due hereunder or shall breach any other
provision of this agreement on Sponsor's part to be performed, WOR at its option
may give written notice to Sponsor terminating this agreement. Termination of
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 21
this agreement shall not prejildice any right of action on WOR's part by reason
of,_any such broach by Sponsor.
PROGRAM MATKRIAL
WOR
12. A Sponsor, at its own cost and expense, shall furnish the entertainment or
information portion of the broadcasts, the general nature of which shall be as
follows:
Shdiild an advertiser desire Jto use the above time for a five-time-a-week strip or
more, WOR reserves the right to change Sponsor's time to other mutually satis-
factory periods upon the serving of four (4) weeks' written notice. In the event a
mutually satisfactory time is not available, this contract may be cancelled by
either party ujjon the seiving of four (4) weeks' written notice prior to date of
such cancellation.
B. If Sponsor is required to furnish the entertainment or information portion of
the broadcasts, it shall, at its own cost and expense, furnish all materials and talent
therefor, which must be satisfactor,y to WOR. WOR reserves the right, without
prior notice to Sponsor, to eliminate any part of any program which it considers
contrary to its policies or interest.
C. At least seven (7) days prior to the date when a scheduled broadcast is to
take place, sponsor shall deliver to WOR all commercial announcements and all
other materials which Sponsor is required to furnish WOR hereunder.
D. If Sponsor for any reason shall fail to furnish commercial announcements
satisfactory to both parties, then the announcement shall be substantially as
follows: "This program is being furnished by Standard Brands, Inc. (name of
advertiser)."
MISCELLANEOUS
13. A. This agreement is subject to the terms of all licenses issued to WOR, and
to all federal, state, and municipal laws and regulations and all orders of the
Federal Communications Commission, which may now or hereafter be in effect.
B. Notice by either party to the other shall be in writing and shall be deemed
sufficiently given if served personally upon the other partj', or if sent by United
States mail, postage prepaid, addressed to such party.
C. This agreement may not be assigned by Sponsor, except that Sponsor (if
not an advertising agency) may assign this agreement to a recognized advertising
agency approved Ijy WOR. If this agreement is made by WOR wath more than
one party, the obligations of such parties shall be joint and several. It embodies
the entire understanding between the parties hereto and cannot be changed orally.
In Witness Whereof, the parties hereto have executed this agreement at New
York, New York, the day and yeai first above written.
Bamberger Broadcasting Service, Incorporated,
By CoGEL Thomas,
J. Walter Thompson Company,
By Linnea Nelson.
Mr. MuNDT. What years are those?
Mr. Stetler. They are this year, 1945.
Mr. Bonner. "What kind of a contract is it?
Mr. Adamson. It is a contract for the broadcasting of this con-
troversial program, Mr. Bonner. I will have the witness explain his
connection with it in just a moment. I thought I would put these
in first, so as to give him something to talk about.
Mr. Thomas. Let me look at them, please. [Mr. Adamson handed
the documents to Mr. Thomas.]
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I ask that three sheets here showing
the pay roll of this dramatic broadcast, which of course are not all
inclusive, they are merely for the date of May 1 — the week of May 1
and the week of May 8. 1 ask that the two sheets marked May 1,
1945, be marked as one exhibit, "No. 7," and the single sheet dated
May 8, be marked "exhibit No. 8."
83079—46 4
22 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
The Chairman. They will be so admitted.
(The two sheets dated May 1, 1945, were marked "Exhibit 7A and
7B"; the single sheet dated May 8, 1945, was marked "Exhibit 8.")
Exhibit 7-A
Client: Standard Brands, From New York — WOR
Program: Soldiers With Coupons, on May 1, 1945
To: Mr. Scott
Mr. White
Mi&s Spragle
Miss Spalding
Payments are to be made for the following charges in connection with the
above program, and billed in due course:
Ck.
No.
Performer
Address of performer, payee
(if other than performer)
Wages
foab
Cue
Federal
income
tax
Pay-
ment
0
Tony Barrett, S. S. #109-
10-6674.
333 West 56 Street, New
York, N. Y.
$26. 40
.26
$5.80
31311
$20. 34
0
Madeline Lee, S. S. #120-
10-2207.
333 West 57 Street, New
York 19, N. Y.
26.40
.26
.5.80
31312
20.34
2
Alice Reinheart, S. S. #114-
01-2244.
38 West 53 Street, New
York 19, N. Y.
26.40
.26
5.20
31313
20.94
4
Rojrer DeKoven, S. S.
#063-05-1712.
360 Central Park West,
New York, N. Y.
26.40
.26
4.60
31314
2L54
2
Martin Wolfson, S. S.
#065-07-2953.
69 Charles Street, New
York 14, N. Y.
26.40
.26
5.20
31315
20 94
0
Santos Ortega, S. S. #127-
09-5109.
243-21 60th Avenue, Doug-
laston, L. I., N. Y.
26.40
.26
5.80
31316
20 34
3
Sanford Bickart, S. S.
#110-01-4733.
330 East 58 Street, New
York, N. Y.
26.40
.26
4.90
31317
2L24
1
E. Vincent Connolly, Jr.,
S. S. #081-07-1280.
136 East 36 Street, New
York 16, N. Y.
26.40
■ .26
5.50
31318
20.64
0
Peggy Weiner, S. S. #063-
14-7217.
222 West 83 Street, New
York, N. Y.
35.00
.35
7.73
31319
26.92
3
Kay Reed, S. S. #067-01-
6578.
225 East 79 Street, New
York 21, N. Y.
75.00
.75
15.83
31320
58.42
321. 20
3.18
66.36
251.66
A. K. Spencer,
A. K. Spencer.
May 7, 1945.
Do not charge agency commission.
May Folio #47
A. K. S.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 23
Exhibit 7-B
supplementary folio
To: Mr. Scott
Mr. White
Miss Spragle
Miss Spalding
Client: Standard Krands, From New York — WOR
Program: "Soldiers With Coupons," on May 1, 1945
Payments are to be made for the following charges in connection with the above
program, and billed in due course:
Ck.
No.
Performer
Address of performer, payee
(if other than performer)
Wages
foab
Cue
Federal
income
tax
Pay-
ment
Sound effects
Bamberger Broadcasting
Service, Inc., 1440
Broadway, New York
18, N. Y.
$12. 25
31310
$12. 25
•
A. K. Spencer,
A. K. Spencer.
May 13, 1945.
No agency commission.
Mav Folio #48
Exhibit 8
Client: Standard Brands, From New York — WOR
Program: "Soldiers With Coupons," on May 8, 1945
To: Mr. Scott, Mr. White, Miss Spragle, Miss Spalding.
Payments are to be made for the following charges in connection with the above
program, and billed in due course:
Ck.
No.
Performer
Address of performer, payee
(if other than performer)
Wages
FOAB
Cue
Federal
income
tax
Pay-
ment
2
Florence Halop (123-03-
2182).
179-36 Grand Central
Parkway, .Tamaica,
Long Island, N. Y.
$^6.40
$0.26
$5.20
31301
$20. 94
I
Doris McWhirt (577-26-
8779).
47West 53d St., New York,
N.Y.
26.40
.26
5.50
31302
20.64
a
Daniel Ocko (102-01-0650).
1779 81st St., Brooklyn 14,
N.Y.
32-41 83d St., Jackson
26.40
.26
5.50
31303
20.64
3
Frank Butler (104-03-9285)
26.40
.26
4.90
31304
21.24
Heights, Long Island,
N.Y.
4
Gerald Vaughn (131-03-
5133).
61 West 9th St., New
York, N. Y.
26.40
.26
4.60
31305
21.54
0
Santos Ortega (127-09-
5109).
243-21 60th Ave., Douglas-
ton, Long Island, N. Y.
26.40
.26
5.80
31306
20.34
1
Vincent Connolly, an-
nouncer (081-07-1289).
136 East 36th St., New
York 16, N.Y.
26.40
.26
5.50
31307
20.64
0
Peggy Weiner, assistant
director (063-14-7217) .
222 West 83d St., New
York, N.Y.
35.00
.35
7.73
31.308
26.92
3
Kay Reed, organist (067-
01-6578).
Total
225 East 79th St., New
York 21, N. Y.
75.00
.75
15.83
31309
58.42
294.80
2.92
60.56
231.32
A. K. Spencer.
May 16, 1945.
No agency commLssion.
May Folio No. 49
24 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Bonner. Whose pay roll, OPA?
Mr. Adamson. No; they are paid by Standard Brands. I wanted
the witness to explain it in his own way, so we would not get into any
confusion; therefore I hesitated to summarize the facts. I would
rather the witnesses would tell their own story.
The Chairman. I think that would be better.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler, would you be good enough to tell us
now what the connection of your company is with the radio program
called Soldiers With Coupons?
Mr. Stetler. We have agreed to furnish the funds to make this
program possible over station WOR in New York on Tuesday evening
from 6:15 to 6:30 for a period of 13 weeks starting May 1 and ending,
I believe, July 24. We pay for the time of the station and we have
agreed to pay up to an average of $305 a week for the talent on the
program.
Mr. Adamson. So that you pay for the talent to put on the OPA
dramatic programs?
Mr. Stetler. In effect.
Mr. Adamson. Well, it is a fact, is it not?
Mr. Stetler. We furnish the funds; yes. We pay for it.
Mr. Adamson. On this question of funds, is it not true that you
pay the money to the advertising agency, the Thompson Co., and the
Thompson Co. attempts — attends to disbursing it to the actors?
Air. Stetler. In effect. They pay first and then bill us, and we
pay them.
Mr. Adamson. You pay the advertising agency, and they pay the
actors?
Mr. Stetler. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And J. Walter Thompson is the big advertising
agency that has been in that land of work for many years?
Mr. Stetler^ Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. By the way, while you are on that subject, has
Standard Brands, Inc., at this time any advertising contract with
Benton & Bowles, either on the east coast or the west coast?
Mr. Stetler. No.
Mr. Adamson. None that you know of?
Mr. Stetler. None.
The Chairman. You would know if they had any?
Mr. Stetler. I would know.
Mr. Adamson. You very kindly supplied the committee with
copies of several letters which I understand encompass the written
arrangements on your financing of this program. I want to show you
these copies and ask you if these are the copies [handing to witness]?
The Witness. Yes ; they are.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer a letter dated
April 12, signed by Tex Weiner to Mr. Don Stetler of Standard Brands,
as exhibit No. 9.
The Chairman. It will be received.
(Copy of letter dated April 12, 1945, to Don Stetler from Tex
Weiner marked "Exhibit 9.")
Office of Price Administration,
New York, N. Y., April 12, 194-5.
Mr. Don Stetler,
Standard Brands, Inc., Neiv York, N. Y.
Dear Mr. Stetler: After careful study of all the time available by the var-
ious stations, WEAF, WJZ, and WOR, I have taken prerogative to choose the
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 25
time on station WOR, Tuesdays, 6:15 to 6:30 p. ni. This time will give us an
excellent chance to achieve a rating plus a maximum audience.
Therefore, I would appreciate if you would buy this time for Soldiers With
Coupons, with the starting date as May 1, 1945. I would appreciate your con-
firming the purchases of time so that I can go ahead and arrange the talent for
the show and prejjare the scripts.
With many thanks for your generosity and assistance. With best wishes.
Sincerely,
(Signed) Tex Weiner,
Regional Radio Director,
Mr. Adamson. A letter dated April 5, 1945, to Tex Weiner and
signed by Mr. Stetler which will be No. 10.
The Chairman. It will be received.
(The copy of letter dated April 5, 1945, to Tex Weiner from D. B.
Stetler was marked "Exhibit 10.")
April 5, 1945.
Mr. Tex Weixer,
Regional Radio Director,
^ Office of Price Administration, Aeiv York, A. Y.
Dear Mr. Weiner: With regard to your letter of April 3, this is definite
confirmation that we will furnish the funds for the 13 weeks broadcast of Soldiers
with Coupons either on station WOR, WEAF, or WJZ.
It is understood that the total cost as outlined in vour letter for this 13-week
period will not exceed $10,215.40 if station WOR is used and $9,903.40 if either
WJZ or WEAF is used.
Please advise us as soon as you decide which station you will use. We will
send you prior to the first broadcast and every week thereafter for a total of 13
weeks, our check covering that week's broadcast.
V\'e understand that you will give us a monthly accounting of the expenditures
made and that an adjustment will be made of any unexpended balance at the
conclusion of the 13-week period.
Please advise us to whom the check would be made out.
In connection with the credit line, there is no comma betw^een "Standard
Brands" and "Incorporated."
We understand that after each broadcast you will furnish us with a complete
recording which we may keep for our files.
It is understood that although we are furnishing the funds for this activity,
we have no responsibility for the material which is used on the program or any
contractual or employer relations with the talent.
We are glad to be able to make this contribution to the war effort and wish
j'ou all success with the programs.
Yours very truly,
Standard Brands Incorporated,
D. B. Stetler,
Advertising Director.
Mr. Adamson. And a letter dated April 3, signed by Tex Weiner
and addressed to Mr. Don Stetler, all showing the financial arrange-
ments in detail in connection with this program as No. 11.
The Chairman. It will be admitted.
(Copy of letter dated April 3, 1945, to Mr. Don Stetler from Tex
Weiner, marked "Exhibit 11.")
Office of Price Administration,
New York, N. Y., April 3, 1945.
Mr. Don Stetler,
Standard Brands Inc., New York, N. Y.
Dear Mr. Stetler: Pursuant to our telephone conversation, I can now ad-
vise you on the procedure of handling the moneys for the proposed .sponsorship
of the OPA show, Soldiers with Coupons.
Upon receipt of your first check, a special deposit will be made with the Treas-
urer of the United States. These funds will be subject to withdrawal for the
purpose of the radio broadcast, Soldiers with Coupons. All disbursements from
this fun.d will be in accordance with regular Government procedure and this
26 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
agency will render you an accounting monthly of the expenditures made. Any
unexpended balance remaining will be returned to you at the conclusion of the
13 weeks.
As to the credit line, may I make the following suggestion, which, of course,
can be altered by you in any manner or form you wish.
Cue: (30 seconds.)
Chord:
Announcer: The OP A presents Soldiers With Coupons. This dramatic story
of your OPA's fight to "hold the line" on pricps and to prevent inflation is made
possible by Standards Brands, Inc.
(Music: Theme: Sweeps in: Up and under.;
Outlined below is the estimated cost of time and talent broken down.
Time:
Station WJZ _._ _
Station WEAF .
Station WOE _...
Station WABC _
Talent:
Actors: 6, at $26.40 per show,._ _..
Announcer: 1, at $26.40 per show
Production assistant: 1, at $35 per siiow
Sound : 1 . at $7 per hour
Music: 1, at $75 per show
Estimated cost
13 weelfs
$5, 928. 00
5, 928. 00
6, 240. 00
, 059. 20
343. 20
453. 00
143.00
975. 00
1 week
$379. 07
379. 07
480. 00
158. 40
26.40
35.00
11.00
75.00
This is also to inform you that the cost of the talent shall never exceed the sum
of $305.80 per week, or $3,975.40 for the 13-week period. I am quite sure that
the cost of the organist will be less. However, since I am putting a ceiling on the
amount of money, I thought it would be advisable to ask for this amount for
music. As you know, a good organist is paid about $75 per hour.
Since the time is a stable thing each week (as the talent also) it will never be
more than $6,240 for WOR (Mutual) for 13 weeks, and weeklv, $480. If we go on
Station WJZ or WEAF, the station time for 13 weeks will be $5,928, or $379.07
a week.
Therefore, the weekly cost of the show will never run more than: WOR,
$785.80; WEAF, $684.87; WJZ, $684.87.
In the event that we use Station WABC, the time cost is approximately the
same as WJZ.
I hope this gives you the complete picture and if there are any necessary details
that you desire, kindly inform me and I will try to supply them to you.
With best wishes, I am,
Cordially yours,
Tex Weiner,
Regional Radio Director.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler, I would like for you to look at this
letter dated April 3 and tell us if that letter now correctly outlines
the handling of these funds?
Mr. Stetler. It does not. •
Mr. Adamson. Will you tell us how the present conditions vary
from the conditions outlined by Mr. Weiner in his letter of April 3?
Mr. Stetler. They vary in two instances, first as to cost, and
which is not important, because that is substantially the same.
The second paragraph says:
Upon receipt of your first check a special deposit will be made with the Treas-
urer of the United States. These funds will be subject to withdrawal for the
purpose of the radio broadcast. Soldiers with Coupons. All disbursements from
this fund will be in accordance with regular Government procedure and this
agency will render you an accounting monthly of the expenditures made. Any
unexpended balance remaining will be returned to j'ou at the conclusion of the
13 weeks.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 27
As we drew near the first program, I was advised by Mr. Weiner
that it was not practical to handle the funds in this way, so we told
him we would be glad to buy the time through our advertising agency,
J. Walker Thompson, and pay them when billed, and they would send
a memorandum or bill to Thompson covered the agreed amount for
talent; that we would pay that when billed, rather than sending a
check direct to the OPA.
Mr. Adamson. Would you mind telling the committee how this
matter first arose? Who initiated it? Who brought the idea to you,
or did you originate the idea?
Mr. Stetler. The idea of the program, our sponsoring the program?
Mr. Adamson. Yes. I see here in one of these exhibits a letter from
Mr. Weiner to you dated April 12, which is rather vague on that
point. The date, of course, is after the letter concerning the finances,
so it could not be the first letter.
Mr. Stetler. May I see it?
(Mr. Adamson hands letter to Mr. Stetler.)
Mr. Thomas. April 12 of what year?
Mr. Adamson. 1945, right now.
Mr. Thomas. Would you develop how the program originated?
Mr. Adamson. Yes; would you go ahead in your own way and tell
us how this thing originated in your department.
Mr. Stetler. Around the middle of February, when I was out of
town — that is, February of this year — Tex Weiner got in touch with
our company and wondered whether we would be willing to put up'
the funds so that this OPA program. Soldiers With Coupons, which
was then broadcast over a small New York station, might be moved
to a larger New York station. He said that Mr. Woolley felt that it
was doing a constructive job and wanted to reach a larger audience.
It was discussed with our several executives and checked with Mr.
Woolley who confirmed this fact.
Around the latter part of March, the last few days of March, I
got in touch with Mr. W^oolley and told him it looked as though we
would go ahead, and asked him who would work out the details and
give us more mformation about the technicalities involved. He said
that Mr. Weiner would. So Mr. Weiner came to my office and told
me that the program had been on station WNEW since last fall;
that it seemed to be doing a good job, but of course had a limited
audience over WNEW, and they would like to move to one of the
larger stations, W^OR, WGZ, or WEAF. I gave that information to
our management. We decided that we would go ahead, and we, in
the meantime, had received this letter from Mr. Weiner confirming
the cost and how the payments would be made.
Mr. Thomas. How long have you known Mr. Weiner?
Mr. Stetler. I met him for the first time the latter part of March.
Mr. Thomas. Who in your company did he see at the time you were
out of town?
Mr. Stetler. He contacted Mr. Varney, who is in our Fleisch-
mann's division, our bakery, hotel, and restaurant division.
Mr. Thomas. Has he known Mr. Varney for some time?
Mr. Stetler. I believe so.
Mr. Thomas. Was Mr. Weiner at one time employed by Standard
Brands, Inc.?
Mr. Stetler. Not to my knowledge.
28 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. He was employed by Mr. Phillip Lord at one time,
was he not, one of your directors and officers?
Mr. Stetler. Not to the best of my knowledge. Phil Lord said he
had never heard the name before. However, if I may clear that up,
there are two Phillip Lords, one who is connected with radio, a great
many radio programs, and Phillip Lord who is vice president and
director of our company.
Mr. Adamson. Well, it might be the other Phillip Lord.
Mr. Stetler. I am confident it is not our Phillip Lord.
Mr. Adamson. I wantexl to keep that clear about your company.
Mr. Stetler. I am confident it was not our Phillip Lord.
Mr. Adamson. You do not think it was that one?
Mr. Stetler. No, sir.
Mr. Mencher. Who finally selected WOR, your people, Thompson,
or Weiner?
Mr. Stetler. We ga\«e him the option of selecting whatever station
he could get the best time on, and he checked around. Time was not
available on some of them but he was able to get in the time 6:15 to
6:30 on WOR, one of the good New York stations.
Mr. Adamson. Is it true that at the time this matter was brought
to your company, this program was being put on exclusively then by
and at the expense of OPA over WNEW?
Mr. Stetler. I was given to understand that. I don't know the
fact — I was given to understand that there was no charge for the time;
that the time was donated by WNEW, and that mudi of the talent
was contributed. I do not know the facts on that, but that was my
impression.
Mr. Adamson. But it was purely an OPA program, and the radio
station WNEW, gave the time free?
Mr. Stetler. I was so advised.
Mr. Adamson. And as a matter of fact, most of the radio stations
do give OPA free time for their announcements; is that true?
Mr. Stetler. I could not say.
Mr. Adamson. Well, it came to you, as I understand your testi-
mony, what they wanted to do was to get on a larger radio station, so
as to reach out beyond the Now York region; is that true?
Mr. Stetler. Not necessarily.
Mr. Adamson. Well, WNEW covers the New York area pretty well?
Mr. Stetler. I don't doubt that WNEW has as many listeners
in New York as WOR.
Mr. Adamson. But WOR, as a matter of your own knowledge in
advertising, is a much longer, stronger station than WNEW?
Mr. Stetler. Certainly.
Mr. Adamson. And the range of its program is far greater than that
of WNEW?
Mr. Stetler. I could not say. It is my impression that it is a more
powerful station and reaches further and reaches more people.
Mr. Adamson. As a man of many years experience in advertising
business, you are quite sure of that?
Mr. Stetler. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. And WOR reaches out beyond the New York
region that we now refer to as the OPA region ; is that not true?
Mr. Stetler. I do not want to speak for the New York region of
OPA. I have no idea.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 29
Mr. Adamson. After you pay these actors and pay the radio station
for time, do you know what then becomes of the program? Is there a
transcription made subsequently, and do you know what becomes of
that?
Mr. Stetler. No; I have read in the paper that it is sent out to
other stations and broadcast, but I checked it with JMr. Weiner the
other day and he said that our name did not go out in connection with
that.
Mr. Adamson. I did not say your name went out with it, Mr.
Stetler. I just wanted to know what you know about what happened
to the program.
Mr. Stetler. I know nothing about it.
Mr. Adamson. Especially, you know nothing about it?
Mr. Stetler. I know absolutely nothing about it.
Mr. Adamson. So far as you know, your name is attached only to
the New York broadcast over WOR?
Mr, Stetler. That is right.
Mr. Adaaison. And your payment for the time and the cast is in
return for the commercial announcement attaching the name of
Standard Brands to the program?
Mr. Stetler. Will you state that again? ^
Mr. Adamson. Your payments, your expense incurred in connec-
tion with this program, in substance, is compensation for including
your name both in the opening and closing of the program, in connec-
tion with the OPA program?
Mr. Stetler. No, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Well, what is it for, Mr. Stetler?
Mr. Stetler. We regard this as support of a public service in war-
time, comparable to a great many things that we have done. We
are not putting it on for the advertising value involved. We are
not interested in having our name appear at the beginning and end,
but that is essential when you pay for something.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Weiner's letter to you states in part:
The OPA presents Soldiers with Coupons. This dramatic story of your OPA's
fight to hold the line on prices and to prevent inflation is made possible by Standard
Brands, Inc.
Mr. Stetler. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And Mr. Weiner then says:
As to the credit line, may I make the following suggestion, which, of course,
can be also read by you in any manner or form you wish.
So that, so far as the commercial end of it is concerned, it is
under your control?
Mr. Stetler. I cannot admit that there is any commercial part to
it. We simply take a credit line at the begimiing and at the end,
because that is required by the radio station.
Mr. Adamson. Well, in view of the fact that the radio station gives
the time free, Mr. Stetler, what would be the purpose of your paying
the radio station to put it on?
Mr. Stetler. Well, I can only make a conjecture in that interest,
and that is that they were not able to obtain time free from the larger
stations and had to pay for it.
Mr. Adamson. Would you mind telling the committee that — what
products your company sells or distributes?
83079—46 5
30 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
The Chairman. What is the point of that?
Mr. Adamson. I think the record ought to show what type of busi-
ness they are in, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. That has already been explained for the record.
Mr. Adamson. Well, may he just state the principal things?
The Chairman. I see no point in it, but if he wants to say — I don't
see what difference it makes whether he sells coffee or shoe polish.
Mr. Thomas. I should think he would be glad to state.
The Chairman. If he wants to state, I will be glad to have him
do so.
Mr. Stetler. You are perfectly right, because there are 357
articles, Chase & Sanborn's coffee; Fleischmann's yeast; Royal
Baker's gelatins; Tenderleaf tea and other food products.
Mr. Adamson. Might we summarize it quickly by saying that the
products you sell, or that you distribute, are the articles which are
sold at retail in thousands of stores every day to the average man in
the street?
Mr. Stetler. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. You don't manufacture machinery or do contracting
work or anything of that nature? Your sole interest is in distributing
through retail storegj^ is that correct?
Mr. Stetler. Not exactly, but in effect, yes.
Mr. Adamson. Well, I would like to know how it varies,
Mr. Stetler. Well, we sell Fleischmann's yeast to bakers; we sell
products to hotels and restaurants which are not sold through retail
outlets.
Mr. Adamson. You sell that on a wholesale basis?
Mr. Stetler. We sell dii-ect to them.
Mr. Adamson. Now, do you keep recordings of these programs?
Mr. Stetler. Recordings are sent to us on Wednesday morning
following each broadcast.
Mr. Adamson. And do those recordings carry your name at the
opening and closing of the program?
Mr. Stetler. Oh, yes.
Mr. Adamson. So that is a separate recording from the ones we
talked about a while ago, is that correct?
Mr. Stetler. If others are made.
Mr. Adamson. This one has your name on it, also?
Mr. Stetler. Certainly.
Mr. Adamson. I have no further questions of Mr. Stetler.
The Chairman. Are there any questions by the committee?
Mr. Landis. I would like to know, from someone who is familiar
with the program of these performances who is Peggy Weiner, assist-
ant director?
Mr. Stetler. I suppose she is Tex's wife. He told me his wife
was assistant producer on the show, $35 a week.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Stetler, do you examine the script before the
broadcast is made?
Mr. Stetler. No, sir; we do not.
Mr. Thomas. You just accept the script, assuming that it is all
right.
Mr. Stetler. We were advised when we made the arrangement
that each script was O. K.'d in Washington by OWI and knowing
that, and knowing Mr. Woolley and knowing also that we have
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 31
nothing to sell in this program except the hope of doing a patriotic
duty, we were not interested in the ceAsorship of the programs or
looking at them in advance. We do listen to them on the air lines
or read the script as broadcast after each program.
Mr. Thomas. Have you made any complaint about the script?
Mr. Stetler. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Did you learn at any time that OWI had complained
about the script used by Mr. Weiner.
Mr. Stetler. I have not; not the ones that we sponsored.
Mr. Thomas. Have you heard at any time that they had com-
plained about the scripts used by Mr. Weiner?
Mr. Stetler. I have not.
The Chairman. There was no complaint about the scripts on the
programs that you sponsored?
Mr. Stetler. I am confident that there was not. That is deter-
minable from the date of the script.
The Chairman. If, upon examination of the script after you
broadcast, you were satisfied that they were of a subversive nature,
would you have remonstrated with Mr. Weiner or the OPA?
Mr. Stetler. Of course we would.
The Chairman. And you are not of the opinion that there has
been anything subversive broadcast on these programs?
Mr. Stetler. That is right, since our sponsorship of them, which
was May 1, 1945.
Mr. Adamson. Your sponsorship is quite recent, is it not?
Mr. Stetler. May 1, 1945.
Mr. Adamson. In answering Congressman Thomas, I would like
to call attention, Mr. Chairman, to a short paragraph here in the
letter of April 5 written by Mr. Stetler to Mr. Weiner. He says:
It is understood that, although we are fumishing^the funds for this activity,
we have no responsibihty for the material which is used on the program or any
contractual or employer relation with it.
So that was your understanding, that you were to have nothing
to do with the substance of the program. You were only interested
in the commercial, in the opening and the closing?
Mr. Stetler. I am sorry I cannot call it a "commercial" but we
had no censorship over the program at all.
Mr. Adamson. You do not attempt to commercialize or exercise
any censorship at all?
Mr. Stetler. We have not, up to this time.
Mr. Rankin. Did you hear all these broadcasts? Did you listen in?
Mr. Stetler. I heard all but the one last night and the one 2
weeks ago.
Mr. Rankin. You heard the ones that this man had been making
before you took it?
Mr. Stetler. I never heard it before we took it on.
Mr. Rankin. If you had known of or had been convinced that he
was broadcasting subversive propaganda, would you have continued
your connection with him?
Mr. Stetler. You mean would we have made our original contract.?
Mr. Rankin, \^'ould you have made the original contract?
Mr.. Stetler. We would have not touched it with a 10-foot pole.
Mr. Rankin. Then if you are convinced now that he is broad-
casting subversive programs, propaganda, you would sever your
connection with him?
32 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Bonner. He testified he knows lie is not.
Mr. Rankin. I am talking, though, if you find out that this propa-
ganda that he is broadcasting is subversive, I want to know if he
would sever his connection and cancel the contract?
Mr. Stetler. That would certainly be our inclination, subject to
our right to cancel the contract.
Mr. Rankin. Of course, fraud vitiates everything and if he did not
mform you that he was going to broadcast subversive propaganda
and then proceeded to do so on your advertising program, then you
would be perfectly justified in legally, and certainly morally, can-
celing your contract with it.
Mr. Stetler. That is our position.
Mr. Rankin. In other words, you have no desire to do anything
to further subversive propaganda in this country?
Mr. Stetler. No, sir.
Mr. Adamson. May I ask just one more question to clear up the
date? Approximately what date did you take over supervision of
the advertising department from Mr. Woolley?
Mr. Stetler. I believe it was in 1939.
Mr. Adamson. As I understand it, Mr. Woolley retired; is that
correct?
Mr. Stetler. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. As an executive. Now, you don't pay Tex Weiner
anything at all, do you?
Mr. Stetler. Not according to the record.
Mr. Adamson. Not according to the record?
Mr. Stetler. No; we do not pay him anythiDg.
Mr. Adamson. So far as you know, your company does not pay
Tex Weiner anything?
Mr. Stetler. That is right. I understand he does not get any-
thing out of it. He is an employee of OPA.
Mr. Adamson. He is a Government employee who writes radio
script for your place?
Mr. Stetler. That is what it says on the script.
Mr. MuNDT. Two questions, Mr. Chairman. This pay roll here
is one that you pay, is it not?
Mr. Stetler. No, sh; that is the record from the advertising
agency. We have never seen one of those before. They simply
gave them to me because it was a copy of what they gave to Mr.
Adamson.
Mr. MuNDT. You did provide the money that distributed this?
Mr. Stetler. Yes. su\
Mr. MuNDT. Part of it goes to Tex Weiner's wife?
Mr. Stetler. Yes.
Mr. MuNDT. You do not pay Tex Weiner? You pay his wife?
Mr. Stetler. Yes; we pay his wife.
Mr. Adamson. Would you let us have a copy of the bills? Have
you brought them along?
Mr. Stetler. Certainly.
Mr. Rankin. Let me ask counsel, has this list of names been in-
serted in the record?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir; those are exhibits. The chairman has
already admitted them. I did not want to string the hearing out by
going into them in great detail because they are put in the record and
the committee can study them at their leisure.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 33
Mr. MuNDT. I sim])lv wanted the record to show that the Tex
Weiner family is bein<;' paid.
Mr. Adamson. I think that is true.
Mr. MuNDT. It is not exactly true that Tex Weiner is not being
paid, as long as the family is being paid.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler's organization has been extremely co-
operative in this matter, and I am merely trj^ing to push along and
let him go if he wants to go.
Air. Stetler. Here is a carbon copy of J. Walter Thompson's bill
for time. That is WOR. These are not Thompson's bills but are
copies of his bills to us covering talent, and I believe will check with
those photostatic records you have.
Mr. MuNDT. One other question, Mr. Stetler. Ifou have told us
several times that you did not want these programs considered as
commercial?
Mr. Stetler. That is right.
Mr. MuNDT. You felt they had no advertising value whatsoever.
As a matter of fact, in your accounting set-up I presume these broad-
casts are charged to advertising, are they not?
Mr. Stetler. Yes; we charge them to advertising, miscellaneous.
Mr. Adamson. So that the money that you invest in this program is
handled as routine, usual expense of the company?
Mr. Stetler. That is right.
Mr. Robinson. Has Tex Weiner's wife appeared on the programs
you have heard recorded?
Mr. Stetler. I could not say. I do not know her voice. I assume
not. They announce at the end of each program the actors who have
appeared, and I have not heard of her.
Air. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, have you any further questions of
the witness?
The Chairman. Any further questions? If not, we thank you,
Mr. Stetler.
Mr. Adamson. I would like to call Mr. Potter. He is Mr. Bowles'
alter ego.
The Chairman. Will you be sworn, Mr. Potter?
TESTIMONY OF ZENAS I. POTTER, WARDMAN PARK HOTEL,
WASHINGTON, D. C, DIRECTOR OF CONGRESSIONAL INFORMA-
TION, OFFICE OF PRICE ADMINISTRATION
(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
Mr. Adamson. Will you give your home address?
Mr. Potter. Zeras L. Potter. Home address, Wardman Park
Hotel.
Mr. Adamson. What is your title, officially?
Mr. Potter. My title is Director of the Office — Director of Con-
gressional Information, OPA.
Mr. Adamson. That is a big office. You heard Air. Bowles' testi-
mony to the effect that he did not have time to familiarize himself
with all the details of the OPA, and that you were one of the authorized
assistants?
Air. Potter. I really am Air. Bowles' assistant on congressional
matters, and we get a good many letters and inquiries from Congi-ess,
going into all branches of the office.
34 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. Are you successful in answering all the letters that —
all the questions a Congressman asks?
Mr. Potter. Well, sir, I would not make sure that I have not
answered all of them successfully, but at least we try.
Mr. Adamson. I also want to say, gentlemen, that Mr. Potter,
down in the OPA office, has been very kind and cooperative in this
investigation, and he has peraiitted our investigators to see all of his
files — that is, all that he knew about, I suppose — and our investi-
gators have been permitted to talk to the employees in the office con-
cerning this matter fully. I appreciate that much. It has shortened
our work considerably.
Mr. Potter. We have no secrets from Congress.
Mr. Adamson. I am glad to hear that. Now, Mr. Potter, can you
tell us the mechanical set-up in your office for handling OPA radio
broadcasts, and what supervisory machinery you have in the Wash-
ington office?
Mr. Potter. Generally speaking, our radio programs and our other
informational activities are not supervised in Washington save in a
very general way. This radio program in the regional office of New
York came down to Washington, I understand, for the reason that two
OWI districts were covered by the broadcasting, and OWI therefore,
preferred to hear it in Washington rather than in their own district;
otherwise, we would probably not have gotten into it to any extent in
Washington, but because OWI did make that request, the program
scripts were sent down to W ashington and they were reviewed by the
Radio Branch in our information department that went over the
scripts.
Mr. Adamson. How many people are now assigned to that work in
the Washington office; that is, radio editorial work, or censorship,
whatever you want to call it, and state exactly — —
Mr. Potter. I don't know exactly, but I think maybe two or three
people, clerical work.
Mr. Adamson. Are all radio scripts from all over the United States
sent in to you, that is, from all your regional offices?
Mr. Potter. No, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Well, that condition exists only with regard to the
New York office?
Mr. Potter. I will say that we would not be in this show in Wash-
ington were it not for the fact that OWI has districts around the coun-
try, and things are cleared with them, as I understand it, in the dis-
tricts. In this case our district or our region, rather, included a couple
of OWI offices, so that because of that, OWI wanted to come into
Washington, and this is how we happened to get into the thing.
Air. Adamson. You mean mlo your office in Washington, or into
the OWI office here?
Mr. Potter. It also came — we cleared them here because OWI
wanted to clear them here.
Mr. Adamson. So they come into both offices here, both OWI and
OPA?
Mr. Potter. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. I wonder if you could tell us very briefly what you
consider to be the New York region? How big is it?
Mr. Potter. Well, Mr. Woolley can tell you exactly. It consists
of five States — New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland,
Delaware, and the District of Columbia.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 35
Mr. Adamson. Then Washington is in the region?
Mr. Potter. Oh, yes. But the fact that Washington is in a region
is not a reason for our super vismg that region, any more than any
other region.
Mr. Adamson. Well, suppose you have a radio director, say, in
Chicago, writing radio scripts for OPA; where would his script be
shipped?
Mr. Potter. Into the regional ofhce and with the OWI office in
that area.
Mr. Adamson. And the OWI office in the region which covers that
would get that from your office out there?
Mr. Potter. That is my understanding.
Mr. Adamson. Sq that the regional director really would be free
to write what he chose. He would be free to write it, so long as he —
the regional dii'ector — agreed with him?
Mr. Potter. Ordinarily. Of course, if we got complaints, we
might check into the thing with the regional administrator.
Mr. Adamson. But, due to the peculiar geographical set-up here
in the field, the script happens to come into your office?
Mr. Potter. That is my understanding.
Mr. Adamson. That is how you know about them first-hand in the
Washington office?
Mr. Potter. That is my understanding.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. Potter, can you tell us whether or not
a dramatic program has been authorized or permitted by any of the
regional OPA offices, other than the New York region?
Air. Potter. This is the only dramatic program, I understand,
that we are putting on at the present time. I would not swear that
some have not been put on some time, somewhere. They probably
have.
Mr. Adamson. Don't go beyond your own knowledge.
Mr. Potter. No; it is my understanding — I am told that this is
the only dramatic program that is being put on at the present tune.
Mr. Adamson. And is it not true that requests have been made by
your subordinates in this radio field for permission to put on such
programs elsewhere, and they have been refused?
Mr. Potter. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Adamson. You do not know that they have asked?
Mr. Potter. Not to my knowledge,
Mr. Thomas. Who would know that?
Mr. Potter. Well, I do not know. The head of our Radio Depart-
ment probably would be better informed than I would be, but I am
sure we have no prejudice against dramatic shows as such.
Mr. Thomas. Let us get down to brass tacks. Who is the head of
the Radio Section?
Mr. Potter. Miss Daubenspeck.
Mr. Thomas. Is she here now?
Mr. Potter. No.
Mr. Adamson. Would it be convenient for you to let her come up
tomorrow morning?
Mr. Potter. I think so.
Mr. Adamson. Who else would 'know about it?
Mr. Potter. Well, Mr. Little might, who is over here; Mr. Herbert
Little.
36 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. Wliat is his title?
Mr. Potter. I think head of the Press Department, or something of
that kind. I do not know his exact title.
Mr. Adamson. Wlio has jurisdiction of these matters over in OWI?
Mr. Potter. I do not know.
Mr. Adamson. But these scripts are criticized by OWI?
Mr. Potter. They have been criticized by OWI, and they pass all
Government information programs, checking them with other depart-
ments and making sure that they comply with the rules.
Mr. Thomas. I wish you would check all the criticism by OWI.
I want to know what it was, when it happened, whether it was verbal
criticism, or whether it was in writing. If it was in writing, we want
to see it.
Mr. Adamson. I want to stay strictly within the knowledge of this
witness, though, and I will ask him if he knows if these programs have
been severely criticized from time to time by OWI?
Mr. Potter. No, I do not think so.
Mr. Adamson. When you say — when I say "these programs,"
please do not limit it to May 1 because the May 1 programs are too
recent. I mean going back, say, over a period of 10 months or a year.
Mr. Potter. I think that OWI — I laiow I have looked over the
scripts and commented on them, and OWI and our national Office,
from time to time have made suggestions with regard to these pro-
grams. I think that this letter from Elmer Davis, however, to Mr.
Bowles is very much misunderstood. The objection of Mr. Davis
was, not to the program, but to the fact that it did not get over to
their Office in time to be cleared, and it went on the air without their
clearance.
Mr. Adamson. How could he criticize the program if he never got a
chance to see it?
Mr. Potter. The reason I say I don't think OWI criticized the
program is that the same program 2 weeks later was cleared by OWI
for being put on transcription for other stations.
Mr. Adamson. On that point, too, you heard Mr. Stetler testify?
Mr. Potter. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And can you enlighten us now about these tran-
scriptions that are subsequently made? What sort of machinery do
you have for distribution of this program? Is it sent around to various
places? Can 3^ou tell the committee about that?
Mr. Potter. I understand that that program has been presented
to the various radio stations throughout the district, and I believe
that approximately 30 stations are regularly broadcasting that pro-
gram at present, we providing the transcription.
Mr. Adamson. OPA pays for those transcriptions?
Mr. Potter. That is my understanding, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And up until last month that ran five or six hundred
dollars a month?
Mr. Potter. It has been running about $600 a month.
Mr. Adamson. Within the last month or so the usage by the stations
has dropped off considerably?
Mr. Potter. I understand not. At the time about 30 stations
were still using the program.
Mr. Adamson. Is it not true that several months ago your expense
for recordings was about $600, but your last payment was $308?
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 37
Mr. Potter. I think so; but I think there must have been some
partial bilHng entered into that month, and the whole thing did not
get into that month, because I am informed that approximately 30
stations are still broadcasting the program.
Mr. Adamson. You had 55 at one time, did you not?
Mr. Potter. I don't think so. Mr. Woolley could give you better
information on that than I.
Mr. Adajmsox. How far west do you send those transcriptions?
Mr. Potter. I think that at present those programs are mainly
broadcast in our region, region 2, the New York region. The scripts
have gone out, around the country, I believe. I understand that the
shows, some of them, have been put on certain stations out of the
Denver office.
Mr. Adamson. Then Mr. Weiner is the only radio director who is
permitted to put on a dramatic program, but you then send his
program out all over the comitry. Is that true, Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. I would say this, that I think the word, "permitted"
is a mistake.
Mr. Adamson. He is the only one doing it?
Mr. Potter. He is the only one at the present time putting a di'a-
matic program out, according to my understandmg, and his scripts
have been sent out around the country, and some of them are being
used in the Denver region.
Mr. Adamson. So that really Mr. Weiner is providing this dramatic
program for the other regions, as well as New York?
Mr. Potter. We very generally, when one region does something
that is apparently successful, send that around to the other regional
directors. If they see sometliing useful in it, they take it up and
make use of it. That is the only extent to which Mr. Weiner 's pro-
gi'am is being used in the other areas.
Air. Adamson. Well, do the radio stations ask for these transcrip-
tions themselves, or are they requested by the regional director out
in these other regions?
Mr. Potter. I could not tell you that. I think you had better
ask Mr. Woolley that, because he has had the largest experience with
stations using the recordings.
Mr. Thomas. I hope that when we come to hear Mr. Woolley he
will not pass it on to somebody else, because we want to get the facts.
Mr. Potter. I am sure Mr. Woolley will be very glad to answer
what he knows.
You see, the difficulty is, as Mr. Bowles testified, this is the job of
the New York regional office primarily, and we have not informed
ourselves anything about it in Washington except incidentally; con-
sequently, I am not the expert witness on what has been done in New
York. Air. Woolley should be able to answer those questions.
Mr. Adamson. Air. Potter, I tried to restrict my questions to your
knowledge, but I do not want to take up your time unnecessarily,
but when this program goes out to various other parts of the country,
don't you tliiiik it is a matter of which your Office should have full
knowledge?
Mr. Potter. I would like to ask Mr. Mencher, Are we shipping
the transcriptions anywhere?
Mr. Mencsher. Not outside.
83079 — 46 6
38 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Potter, We are not shipping any transcriptions from outside.
They are picking up scripts and making use of them. That is all.
Mr. Adamson. I don't want to disagree with you too violently,
but what difference does it make whether you send a mechanical
transcription or send a script which is used in the other regions? I
would like to have you explain that distinction to us.
Mr. Potter. Well, only this — it does not make any particular
difference; the only thing is that we never have endeavored as a
national program, to pick up Mr. Weiner's program and spread it all
over the country. We have provided information about it — about
the scripts to the other regional offices, and if they see anything in
it they may try to make use of it.
Mr. Thomas. Right on that point would you tell the committee
just how you have advised the other offices about this?
Mr. PoTTFR. I would be very glad to get the information for you
and enter it in the record.
Mr. Thomas. You have not got any correspondence there between
you and the other offices?
Mr. Potter. No; I have not now.
Mr. Adamson. As long as you are looldng that up, Mr. Potter, will
you also be good enough to give us a list of the radio stations that use
a mechanical transcription, say during the month of May?
Mr. Potter. Mr. Woolley, I am sure, will be glad to answer that.
I can do it, now, if you want me to, I guess.
Mr. Adamson. Let me request^ — let me complete my request of
you. Also I should like to have a list of the places to which you sent
the script, as distinguished from the mechanical recording.
Mr. Potter. Do you want me to read these statements?
Mr. Adamson. Yes; if you will do that.
Mr. Potter. WFBG, Altoona, Pa.
The Chairman. How many are there?
Mr. Potter. There are approximately 30.
The Chairman. Let us have them entered in the record without
reading.
Mr. Potter. I will say they are all in Pennsylvania, New Jersey,
New York State, and Washington, D. C.
The Chairman. Will you let the stenographer take this paper over-
night?
Mr. Potter. All right.
(The list referred to follows:)
October 4, 19U— Soldiers With Coupons— OP A Show 6, 1211
Mailing
Record
charge
charge
$0. 36
$6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6. .50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
.36
6.50
Burgess OPA, Wilmington, Del
WFBD, Altoona, Pa
WJAC, Jo'mstown, Pa
WCED. Dubois. Pa
WCAM, Camden, N.J
WSNJ, Rridgeton, N. J.
WBAX. Wilkes-Barre, Pa
AVBRE, Wilk-cs-Barre, Pa
WHB, Harrlsburg, Pa
WIP, Philadelphia, Pa
WHAT, Philadelphia, Pa
WDAS, Philadelphia, Pa
WIBG, Philadelphia, Pa
WTEL, Philadelphia, Pa
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 39
October 4, 1944 — Soldiers With Coupons — OPA Show 6, 1211 — Continued
Mailing
charge
Record
charge
WSAN, Allentown, Pa
WHOM, Now York, N. Y
WRAW, Reading, Pa.
Weiner, OPA, New York, N. Y. (3).
WBAB, Atlantic City, N. J. —
WWDC, Washington, D. C
WSBA, York, Pa
WABY, Albany, N. Y
WKNY, Kingston, N. Y
WSNY, Schenectady, N. Y
WNBZ, Saranac Lake, N. Y
WKBW, Buffalo, N.Y
WGR, Buffalo, N. Y
29 packages, at 20 cents.
Less 40 percent
Total.
$0.36
.00
.36
.00
.36
.36
.36
.36
.36
.36
.36
.36
.36
9.00
5.80
14.80
$6.50
6.50
6.50
19.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
6.50
188.50
75.40
113.10
14.80
127. 90
Mr. Thomas. What is the station in Washington, D. C?
Mr. Potter. WWDC.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we now adjourn until
10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
The Chairman. Let us proceed for awhUe now.
Mr. Thomas. How much more have you got from Mr. Potter?
Mr. Adamson. Five or ten minutes.
The Chairman. Let us proceed with Mr. Potter and then decide
what to do.
Mr. Potter. I will be glad to enter into the record, Mr, Adamson,
the correspondence we had with the other regional officers.
Mr. Adamson. May we receive that as one exhibit, Mr. Chairman?
If you will be good enough to clip all the correspondence together,
we will enter that m the record as exhibit 12.
The Chairman. Very well.
(The correspondence referred to, to be furnished by Mr. Potter
was given the number exhibit No. 12.)
Mr. Adamson. When Mr. Potter sends it in, .we wUl have a place
for it in the record.
Now, when the transcriptions go out, Mr. Potter, do those tran-
scriptions include the name of Standard Brands?
Air. Potter. I understand not, sir.
Mr. Adamson. So that the play goes out with merely the opening
and closing of the OPA? Is that correct?
Mr. Potter. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. And they are doing very well, you say, around in
these stations.
Mr. Potter. I have no knowledge of how well they are doing.
Mr. Adamson. Would you continue to send them out if they were
not doing so well?
Mr. Potter. We would not send them out if they w^ere not asked
for.
Mr. Adamson. And you mean by the station, not by the regional
officials of the OPA?
40 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr, Potter. I am not familiar, and I don't believe anyone in the
Wa^ington office is familiar with the relationship of the OPA local
people in each of these areas and this radio station. That all comes
under the supervision of Mr. WooUey. I am sure he can provide you
with such information as we have. We don't know in the Washington
office what the relationship is between the stations and any efforts
on the part of OPA to have those programs presented.
Mr. Adamson. As I understand it, the radio station at this time
asks for them, and they run these plays on their own time and without
compensation from you or anyone else?
Mr. Potter. I do not think we laiow what happens to them in the
Washington office. All that we know is that they go out to these
stations. Mr. Woolley may be able to supply some additional in-
formation.
Mr. Adamson. Well, in the case of the scripts themselves, when
you send them out, do you laiow what becomes of them when they
go outside of this region No. 2? I believe this is No. 2, is it not?
Mr. Potter. No. 2, New York.
Mr. Adamson. When those scripts go outside of Mr. Woolley's
region, do you know who they go to, and what is done with them?
Mr. Potter. They go to our regional office, and, as Mr. Bowles
told you this morning, we do not attempt to dictate the information
program of these regional offices. That is left very largely in the
hands of the regional administration. If he sees some use to be made
of it, he uses it; if he doesn't, he just discards it.
Mr. Adamson. Is the program now sponsored by Standard Brands
over WOR the only program of which you have knowledge, which is
paid for both with regard to the talent and the time, by an inde-
pendent advertiser not connected with the Government in any way?
Mr. Potter. I would like to answer that in this way, if I may:
There was organized early in the war, by the National Association of
National Advertisers, the American Association of Advertising Agen-
cies, the American Newspaper Publishers Association, the Radio
Broadcasters National Organization, of which I do not know the name,
and I believe, by the Associated Business Press, what was called the
Advertising War Council, the purpose of which was to give the
Government aid in financing the presentation to the American people
of various war programs. I know that the Treasury Department has
made very widespread use of that service. I know the War Produc-
tion Board has made very widespread use of that service. I don't
know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent by
advertisers in support of the scrap drive. I suppose millions of
dollars have been spent by the advertisers in support of various war
programs. The sponsoring of this program by Standard Brands is
only a very small part of something that has been a very big thing
during the period of the war. We have had, I suppose, hundreds of
thousands of dollars spent by these various grocers of the country in
support of our consumer-grocer program. This is only one small
instance of the total amount of money spent by private business in
support of OPA programs, and so far as the radio program, a dramatic
radio program, is concerned, I know of none other being sponsored in
the country.
Mr. Adamson. That is a point I am trying to make, Mr. Potter.
It took us a long time to get it. The only one that you know of is in
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 41
the hands of Mr. Tex Weiner, in New York, and it is distributed very
widely to the rest of the country, not restricted to region 2, of which
Mr. Weiner is the radio director?
Mr. Potter. No transcriptions, I understand, are going outside
of region 2.
Mr. Thomas. But the scripts are? Why do you make a distinc-
tion between scripts and transcriptions?
Mr. Potter. Simply this; if we sent a transcript — if we sent out
a script, they may or may not use it. If they order a transcription,
you are pretty certain the program is going on.
Mr. Thomas. Are you sending out scripts voluntarily or are they
requested?
Air. Potter. We send them out to our regional offices.
Mr. Adamson. All of them?
Mr. Potter. I imagine so.
Mr. Adamson. Every region in the United States gets the script?
Mr. Potter. We have eight regions. I do not know whether they
are all going out every time, but I know — I will enter in the record, as
I told you, the contests that we have had with our regional officers
regarding it.
Mr. Thomas. Does Mr. WooUey know whether these scripts are
going out?
Mr. Potter. I could not say about that, but I wiU enter in the
record everything we have on this relation, so that your record wiU
be complete.
Mr. Adamson. Actually, are they sent from, the Washington office,
or the New York office?
Mr. Potter. If they are sent, I should think they should go from
the New York office on the order, the instructions, of the Washington
office.
Mr. Adamson. If they are produced in New York and distributed
from New York to all of the regions in the United States.
Mr. Potter. If they go outside of region 2, it would be on the
instructions of the Washington office. They have no authority — if
they send them outside of that, it would be on instructions of the
Washington office. They would be simply acting on our orders.
Mr. Adamson. Have you gentlemen any further questions?
Mr. MuRDOCK. I would like to ask whether any of these scripts
are available for the committee to study?
Mr. Adamson. We have had quite a study made of them and
tomorrow we will bring them on.
Mr. Potter. I would like to say that we have the transcriptions
themselves here and the machine if the committee wishes to hear them.
Mr. Adamson. Our man has aheady listened to them through your
courtesy, and that would take hours to do.
Mr. Potter. We might take one that you thought was particularly
bad and put that on for the committee if they wish to hear it.
Mr. Adamson. If the chairman wants to do that?
The Chairman. We have the scripts containing the broadcast. I
do not think the oral presentation of it would add anything.
Mr. Thomas. You have a man who will bring them on tomorrow?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir; we have had a man digest them.
Mr. Thomas. As I understand it, what you have been trying to do
is to build a foundation.
42 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson, To show you the mechanics of how the thing runs.
Without doing that, I do not see how you could get it. And Mr.
Bowles wanted to get away, so I took him out of order. Then Mr.
Potter is his assistant and I had to call him.
The Chairman. Are there further questions?
Mr. MuNDT. If we are going to have the actual scripts tomorrow,
I suggest we have them played on the machine, not given to us in
some mimeographed form.
The Chairman. I don't think that can be preserved in the record,
and I certainly would not favor their being played on a machine.
We will have to have the script entered in the record, so we can
determine from the contents of the script in performance — in per-
manent form, whether or not they are of a subversive nature, which
is the only point of this hearing. If we deviate here, we can deviate
in a great many ways.
Mr. Potter. We shall have the records here and the machines, if
you want to hear them. That is up to the committee.
The Chairman. Well, if the members of the committee want to
hear them individually, that is up to them, but certainly, as chairman
of the committee, I will not permit them to be played as part of the
hearing.
Mr. MuNDT. As a member of the committee, I protest.
The Chairman. Are there any further questions, gentlemen?
Mr. Landis. Just one question. You say Mr. Weiner is on the
pay roll of OPA?
Mr. Potter. Yes, sir.
Mr. Landis. Do you know what his salary is?
Mr. Potter. $3,800 a year.
The Chairman. What is his title?
Mr. Potter. Regional radio director.
The Chairman. How long has he been on the pay roll in that
capacity?
Mr. Potter. Almost a year. I think it was just about a year ago
he went on the pay roll.
The Chairman. He had not been employed by OPA prior to that
time?
Mr. Potter. He had not, and my understanding is that OPA has
no connection with him, except that we wanted somebody for this type
of work, and he was on the civil-service list, and we called him in and
employed him.
Mr. Thomas. You just happened to get his name on the list?
Mr. PoTTE'R. That is my understanding.
Mr. Thomas. You know nothing about him?
Mr. Potter. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Have you got the file on his employment record?
Mr. Potter. Yes, I have. I will be glad to file it.
Mr. Thomas. Who was he employed by before he came with you?
Mr. Potter. He was employed by — he was a free-lance writer
before we employed him, writing many radio shows. He was not
employed by Benton & Bowles, but he wrote scripts for some of the
Benton & Bowles shows. He was also employed by other people.
He wrote scripts for the Prudential Family Hour. For 6 months he
contributed free of charge the show for the United States Navy.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA iS
He wrote Counter Spy for Philip Lord. That is not the Standard
Brands man. He wrote a lot of their script. He wrote the Salute to
Youth for the Goodyear Tiro & Ruhber Co.
I may say that this Soldiers "W'ith Coupons show was given an
aw^ard by the Ohio State University for outstanding radio show.
Mr. Adamson. There was another organization that gave him a
medal, too. What was that, Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. The Salute to Youth program, put on by Goodyear
Tire, with the Arthur Cudner Agency as the agency. There was the
Chaplain's Story, and he was given an award for the outstanding
show of the year in the promotion of radio tolerance and brotherhood
on this show put on in which General Arnold appeared.
Mr. Thomas. Who gave him that award?
Mr. Potter. That award was by the National Conference of
Christians and Jews.
Mr. Thomas. Did you ever check up to find out what organization
Tex Weiner had been a member of in the past?
Mr, Potter. I have no idea of that.
Mr. Thomas. Does his civil-service record show that?
Mr. Potter. The record we have does not show anything about
the membership in organizations. Now they make an investigation
of everybody that goes on the government pay roll today, and rather
a special one, I understand.
Mr. Thomas. Have you got a copy of their report on Tex Weiner?
Mr. Potter. I have not, but I will be glad to get it.
Mr. Thomas. Will you get it for the record?
Mr. Potter. I will be glad to get one.
Mr. Adamson. Didn't he work for Orson Welles at one time?
Mr. Potter. He may have worked on some Orson Welles show,
but he was not employed by Orson Welles.
Mr. Adamson. And I believe his record also shows that he attended
Temple University, is that true?
Mr. Potter. I think that is on his employment record; yes.
Mr. Adamson. And that he received a degree from National Uni-
versity here in Washington?
Mr. Potter. I don't know. He went to National University, I
believe the record shows; yes.
Mr. Adamson. My recollection was that his record shows that he
had a degree from National University.
Mr. Thomas. When we meet tomorrow, could you submit all that
information, particularly the civil-service report?
Mr. Potter. I will be glad to do that.
Mr. Adamson. That is ah I have now.
The Chairman. The committee will adjourn until 10 o'clock
tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned until
10 a. m., Thursday, June 21, 1945.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, JUNE 21, 1945
House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Edward J. Hart (chairman)
presiding.
The Chairman. The committee will please come to order. Mr.
Woolley, will you be sworn?
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL R. WOOLLEY, NEW YORK CITY, ADMINIS-
TRATOR, REGION 2, OPA
(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.)
Mr. Adamson. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Woolley,
the regional director of New York, would like to get back to New
York today, so I am going to change the order of calling witnesses so
as to permit him to testify at this time and leave, if he so desires. I
understand the House meets at 11 o'clock this morning, and I expect
to finish with Mr. Woolley before 11, and I may be able to get in
another witness, too, before that time.
Mr. Thomas. Just a minute. This other witness that you refer
to, is this very important witness that we just discussed a couple of
minutes ago?
Mr. Adamson. He could start his testimony but could not complete
it by 11.
Mr. Thomas. I think, then, under the circumstances, we should put
him on first.
Mr. Mundt. I think that is up to counsel to proceed as he desires.
Mr. Adamson. First, I want to accommodate Mr. Woolley and
get through with him so that he can get back to New York. Mr.
Woolley, wiU you state your fuU name and your present address and
your title?
Mr. Woolley. Daniel Kittinger Woolley, 25 Second Place, New
York City. I am the regional administrator of region 2, Office of
Price Administration, New York City.
Mr. Adamson. How long have you occupied that position?
Mr. Woolley. Two years in November, coming November.
Mr. Adamson. What business were you in prior to your connection
with the OPA?
Mr. Woolley. I was vice president and general sales manager of
Standard Brands.
Mr. Adamson. And you retired from that company now?
45
46 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And you receive the company's pension, do you?
Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir.
Mr. Adamson. You are not on pension?
Mr. WooLLEY. I am not on pension.
The Chairman. You also occupied a municipal office, did you not?
Mr. WooLLEY. I was commissioner of markets under the LaGuardia
administration, following my retirement. My retirement only
lasted a very short time.
Mr. Adamson. Standard Brands, as I suppose you heard Mr.
Stetler testify yesterday, is engaged in the advertising of food products;
is that correct?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. How long were you in the advertising field, Mr.
Woolley before you retired from Standard Brands?
Mr. Woolley. I would say about 35 years.
Mr. Adamson. And I suppose you are acquainted with Mr. Bowles
in the advertising business?
Mr. Woolley. I never was acquainted with him in the advertising
business. They did not handle any of our advertising,
Mr. Adamson. You did not know him before you became con-
nected with OPA?
Mr. Woolley. I probably had met him, but I did not know him.
I didn't have any connection with him.
Mr. Adamson. And you had no connection with Benton & Bowles,
his advertising firm?
Mr. Woolley. No, sir.
Mr. Adamson. As I understood Mr. Bowles' testimony, his com-
pany, Benton & Bowles, also handled the advertising for food
distributing concerns. Is that correct?
Mr. Woolley. I would not know.
Mr. Adamson. You don't know that?
Mr. Woolley. Not first-hand knowledge, I would not know that.
Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us about the mechanical set-up, the
operation of the regional office of OPA and the organic relationship
with the main office of OPA here in Washmgton?
Mr. Woolley. Well, I am, of course, personally appointed by Mr.
Bowles to administer the rules and regulations of the Office of Price
Administration. As for the actual operation of the region, we operate
under directives. My principal directive is A. 04, which gives me the
authority under which I handle the region.
Mr. Adamson. You say, "handle the region." Does that give you
exclusive jurisdiction and authority to employ and discharge em-
ployees?
Mr. Woolley. Under, of course, the civil-service regulations. The
fact is, I cannot hire nor fire anybody in the Office of Price Adminis-
tration.
Mr. Thomas. What was that answer?
Mr. Woolley. I can neither hire nor fire anyone in the Office of
Price Administration, except by appeal to the United States Civil
Service Commission.
Mr. Thomas. Can't you get rid of somebody if you do not need his
services any more?
Mr. Woolley. That brings about a declaration and has to go to
the Civil Service Commission.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 47
Mr. Thomas. You mean to say that if you have a person there who,
we will say, is stealing something or doing something that you do not
like as an employee, you cannot do anything about it?
Mr. WooLLEY. I can bring them up on charges. I have to prefer
charges.
Mr. Adamson. Had you ever brought charges against anybody?
Mr. Rankin. Let him finish that answer.
Mr. WooLLEY. To prefer charges — I don't know whether I am
guilty or the person I am trying to get rid of is guilty,
Mr. Thomas. Have you ever brought charges against anybody?
Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. How do you know whether he is guilty or not?
Mr. WooLLEY. How do I know that?
Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir.
Mr. WooLLEY. Well, charges have been brought against people
but not by myself certainlj^. I know the procedure of bringing the
charges.
Mr. Thomas. What do you mean when you say you don't know
whether you are guilty or not?
Mr. WooLLEY. I say before you get through, you don't know who is
guilty.
Mr. Thomas. But you haven't brought any charges, so how do you
know?
Mr. WooLLEY. I take a little poetic license in that statement.
Mr. Rankin. You mean that if you prefer charges against one of
these individuals, they have to be tried then by the Civil Service
Commission, then, do they not?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
Mr. Rankin. And not by your outfit.
Mr. WooLLEY. And if they are veterans, there enters additional
procedure.
Mr. Rankin. ^Vhat is that additional procedure?
Mr. WooLLEY. I would have to refer you to the record on that.
Mr. Rankin. But now additional procedure by whom?
Mr. WooLLEY. By me or whoever I appoint; whatever deputy
I appoint to hold the hearings plus the personnel that would be
brought into the picture from civil service.
Mr. Rankin. Then, so far as misconduct in your department is
concerned, it is in the hands of the Civil Service Commission?
Mr. WooLLEY. Wait a minute. To what extent. I certainly have
agreed — I have a great deal of influence. If I don't like the way a
person is handling his division, I can change that in several ways.
I can either put them in another department or remove them, or if
they are vicious, then they have to be brought up on charges.
Mr. Rankin. Then if you bring him up and the Civil Service Com-
mission brings in the verdict, "We, the jury, find this man who stole
the horse, not guilty," then you can get rid of him.
Mr. WooLLEY. I cannot do anything about it.
Mr. Rankin. In other words, the Civil Service Commission is
supreme when it comes to keeping people on the Federal pay roll,
regardless of what they are charged with?
Mr. WooLLEY. I would not like to answer that because I think
"regardless of the charges," is a very broad term.
Mr. Rankin. Suppose they came up and said, "We don't find the
facts substantiated," there is not a thing in the world you can do
48 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
about it unless you appeal to the President to issue an Executive
order ordering his removal from the pay roll.
Mr. WooLLEY. In answer to that, my power to hire and fire is
very limited.
Mr. Rankin. What I am trying to show is that when you catch
people here in the Federal service violating the law or committing
offenses, they just boimce them from one agency to another, under
the jm-isdiction or supervision of the Civil Service Commission?
Mr. WooLLEY. I am not making that statement.
Mr. Rankin. Well, I am.
Mr. Thomas. Do you have any employees who are not under
civil service?
Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. They are all civil service?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. I see.
Mr. Mundt. Have you ever, speaking of you now as OPA — have
you ever brought charges against any employee, tried to remove
that employee, and had the Civil Service nulHfy your action?
Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir.
Mr. Mundt. In other words, you have been just speaking about a
hypothetical situation that might develop?
Mr. WooLLEY. I am talking about the procedure, what is actually
the fact.
Mr. Mundt. You have never been through the procedure as an
official of the OPA?
Mr. WoOLLEY. No.
Mr. Mundt. So it is just a hypothetical supposition?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Woolley, this procedure that you refer to— let
us look at the employment end of it for a moment. When your regional
office wishes to employ a man as a general supervisory official, such
as radio director for the whole region, how do you go about choosing
that man with the assistance of the Civil Service Commission?
Mr. Woolley. The heads of the department concerned will ask
Civil Service if they have a list. The heads of the department con-
cerned will ask for a list of individuals meeting the job description,
and if they have, they submit the list and the head of the department
talks to them as to their qualifications, as to what they can do, and
if they are suitable, we put them on the pay roll.
Mr. Adamson. When they submit a hst to you, how many are on
the list?
Mr. Woolley. I should say ordinarily three.
Mr. Adamson. And you choose one of the three?
Mr. Woolley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. You do have a right to pass over two names?
Mr. Woolley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And do you have personal knowledge about the
employment of Mr. Weiner, or does someone else in your office do that?
Mr. Woolley. I had nothing to do with the actual employment of
Mr. Weiner. He came into the department as an individual that we
needed for the pm-pose of writing radio scripts.
Mr. Adamson. Who, in your office, would have knowledge of Mr.
Weiner?
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 49
Mr. WooLLEY. Mr. Mencher would, I think, in this case. He
engaged him.
Mr. Adamson. What is his title?
Mr. WooLLEY. He is Director of Information.
Mr. Adamson. And is he employed by Civil Service, too?.
JMr. \V ooLLEY, Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Is your position subject to civil service?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. It was advertised for. My job was ad-
veritised for.
Mr. MuNDT. I think the record is a little unclear at one point. I
don't appear as an advocate of the Civil Service Commission; but you
said that he, as an administrator, has the right to pass over two of the
three names recommended. As a matter of fact, he can pass over all
three, pass them over as often as he wants to.
Mr. Adamson. You are right about that, Mr. Mundt. I had the
assumption in mind that he intended to choose one of the three.
Mr. Mundt. He can pass over all three and ask for a new list.
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. So you are not compelled to accept any particular
man, are you?
Mr. WooLLEY. No ; I can keep on sending back for a list if necessary.
Mr. Adamson. And it is true also, that if the list is exhausted, the
Civil Service Commission has machinery by which they can augment
that list by asking for additional applicants? They have a form of
official advertising saying such a rating is opening?
Mr. WooLLEY. I think you are asking a question that I could not
really answer.
Mr. Adamson. If you do not know, just say so.
Mr. WooLLEY. I do not know.
Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us exactly how you distribute those
things over the country, and any details that you think are essential.
Mr. WooLLEY. Well, the so-called script is written, and then
that script is edited by OWI, and then we produce the show, and as
we produce the show we produce these records, so-called platters
and the platters are pressed, and we send them out to our district
offices of which there are 17. There have been reqi::^sts, I under-
stand, although I could not tell you who they are, for additional
platters to go out into other regional offices. Now, the scripts are
sent as a result of having included them in a so-called radio kit —
and this is my best understanding of it — under oath, I do not suppose
I can promise it is altogether true; they are sent out in what we call
a radio kit, from the national office, and that kit consists of. any live
information that they think would be advantageous in the education
of the public.
The script is sent rather than the platters, due to the fact that as
administrator (regional), I open and close the show, and obviously,
another regional administrator would not want Woolley in Now York
to be telling his public — giving them his ideas on the control of prices
and rationing for their division. They want to do it themselves.
Mr. Adamson. So that all you are interested in is transmitting the
substance of the play itself to the offices of — offices outside of your
region?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
50 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. And these other regional directors have the priv-
ilege of doing just as you do in your region, that is, making a little
speech in connection with the play?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And you open and close the programs? Is that
correct?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Now, these transcriptions that go out to your 17
district offices, they do include your statements, do they not?
Mr. WooLLEY. Within my own region; yes.
Mr. Adamson. But those transcriptions that go to your district
offices do not carry the name of Standard Brands?
Mr. WooLLEY. No; I do not think so. I am not sure on that. I
have been told that they did not; that the only ones that carry
Standard Brands are the ones that go to Standard Brands for them
to listen to in their own office.
Mr. Adamson. Well, let us get that straight now. Is that one
that is transcribed on the program for which Standard Brands pays?
Mr. WooLLEY. Is it what?
Mr. Adamson. A transcription that is made, including the name of
Standard Brands — that is made at WOR?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Now, the other transcriptions that go to your dis-
trict offices, is it your understanding that they are made somewhere
else, not at WOR?
Mr. WooLLEY. I don't know of that. So far as I know, they are
made there from the original transcription, and pressed in some fac-
tory. I would not know about the mechanics of that.
Mr. Adamson. How they take out the name of Standard Brands?
Mr. WooLLEY. You can delete that line. The words "by the
Courtesy of Standard Brands," can be taken out of the script.
Mr. Adamson. That is mechanically possible?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. You know that?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Now, these written scripts that are sent out, I
understood Mr. Potter yesterday to say that they were distributed
by your office. Now, are you sure that they are sent out by the
national office?
Mr. WooLLEY. If they are sent out from our office, they are sent
out at the direction of the national office. We have no connection —
there is no connection between our office and any other regional office.
Everything we do would go through the national office.
Mr. Adamson. Who would know about that?
Mr. WooLLEY. If they are not, I will be greatly surprised, because
that is not the way it should be done.
Mr. Adamson. Then it is your understanding that these scripts are
distributed by the national office?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. Whatever distribution is made^
would be made by the national office.
Mr. Adamson. Then you think Mr. Potter's description of that
detail
Mr. Potter (interposing). I agree to answer that whole thing in
the record.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 51
TMr. Adamson. All right. I want to get through with Mr. Woolley
first.
Mr. Potter. I have it here Avhenever you want it.
Mr. Thomas. Then they are set out from the National OfRce?
Mr. WooLLEY. So far as I know.
Mr. MuNDT. Why not straighten this point out while we are on it?
Mr. Potter says he has the answer with him. Why not let him state
it now?
The Chairman. It is in the form of correspondence, is it not?
Mr. Potter. It is in the form of records or radio kits. It is a
collection of papers going out to — going out and describing various
radio material that other regional offices may make use of. W^e sent
out five scripts, I think, to uitroduce this program, let the other
regional offices know about it.
I have the notices with which those were sent out, which I will be
glad to enter in the record, and we felt, after sending out five of them,
that the other regionals knew about them, and if they wanted addi-
tional copies, they could get them.
Mr. Adamson. Then you think Mr. Woolley's statement is correct,
that they are distributed by the national office, rather than the
regional office?
Mr. Potter. We distributed five of them to all of the people. We
did not send them out after that. We thought that if they wanted
any more, they could get them, if they hked the program and wanted
to make use of it, they could get it either through the national office
by writing direct. \
Mr. Adamson. WTien was your last distribution of them, approxi-
mately?
You need not give us the exact date.
Mr. Potter. I can give you the exact date very easily. The first
one was on September 18, 1944, and for five succeeding weeks, we
sent out the scripts, so that the other regional offices would know, if
they wanted to make use of it, they would know what the program was.
Mr. MuNDT. You have been sending them out from your office
since last October?
Mr. PoTiER. We have not sent them to all the regional offices.
I understand that the Denver regional offices have made some use of
this program, but not through using the records or transcriptions made
in New York. They have adapted it to their own uses.
Mr. Adamson. They write in and ask your office to send the
script, and you send it to them?
Mr. Potter. That is right. But we sent them out to all of the
regional administrators for 5 successive weeks, so that they would
be familiar with the nature of the show, and if they wanted to make
any use of it, they could do so.
Air. Adamson. So far as you know, is it the Denver office that is
using this?
Mr. Potter. That is the only office that has made use of them.
Mr. Adamson. That is currently?
Mr. Potter. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. Woolley, did you know Mr. Weiner at all
before he was employed by your organization?
Mr. WoOLLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. You had no contact with him?
52 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. WOOLLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. And you say you personally did not select him?
Mr. WoOLLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. And you did not go over the civil-service list when
that position was filled, that is, you personally?
Mr. WoOLLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. And you know nothing about his qualifications?
Mr. WooLLEY. No; except what I have read of the Civil Service.
Mr. Thomas. Have you read the Civil Service report on Mr.
Weiner?
Mr. WooLLEY. I have since this investigation. I had not before.
Mr. Adamson. If you found that the background on which his
application was based to the Civil Service Commission was erroneous
and misleading, would it be your purpose to take any steps in the
matter?
Mr. WooLLEY. I would think that if the information on Civil
Service was erroneous and deliberately so, I would not want him as an
employee in the region, and that I would refer it back to Civil Service,
of course.
Mr. Adamson. In other words, you feel that all you could do would
be to tell the Civil Service Commission that you are dissatisfied with
him, and you think they should take the necessary steps to separate
him from your Department?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is correct.
Mr. Adamson. And a hearing would then be held by the Com-
mission, not by you?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Now let us get into the question of programs, Mr.
Woolley.
Mr. Thomas. Before you leave that, don't you think — does counsel
have any idea that there is anything in the Civil Service report that
is a misstatement?
Mr. Adamson. We are informed that it is erroneous, Mr. Thomas,
but we have not fully completed our investigation, and we don't
want to make any erroneous statements concerning it until it is
completed, until we are sure. We alw.^.ys double check that because,
in many instances you find people who have similar names, and we
always try to be accurate. Just as yesterday I cleared up the question
here about Phillip Lord. There is one Phillip Lord who is a director
of Standard Brands, and another one who is not. Now, Mr. Woollev,
this program that is paid for by Standard Brands, if you heard Mr.
Stetler's testimony, you know that he said he went away on a trip
and when he came back the matter was on his desk. Who suggested
to Standard Brands that they finance this? Was that you?
Mr. WooLLEY. Well, Standard Brands, and I think about three
other companies, were suggested as being people who were willing to
contribute their funds for the support of the Government's activities,
and naturally, my acquaintance with Standard Brands is a vrey
friendlv one, and I think that right now they are contributing some-
thing like $300 spots on their radio program for various war activities.
So I asked several of the men up there if we would consider that — ^I
did not ask them. They were asked and the answer came back that
if I wanted it, they would be glad to do it. I told them I wanted it,
so it was done.
INVESTIGATION 'OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 53
Mr. Adamson. The tlimg that I cannot get clear in my own mind,
Mr. A\'oolley, is why it was necessary to have someone pay for the
time when the radio stations were aheady providing free time for
the program.
Mr. \\ ooLLEY. I will have to explain that because we were on a
small New York station. This station was a fairly expensive show
in time and 1 consider money. The station time on the small station
was given to us but we had a very limited audience. It did not cover
the rest of the region and 1 finally decided that unless we could get a
more important station and a station with more coverage, we would
have to abandon it, because we did not have the money with which to
buy radio time. I approached a couple of — well, not two — I ap-
proached one of the big networks and asked them if it would be
possible for them to give us the time on their station, and they said
the}^ had already, like most of the other stations, allotted all of the
free time they could possibly afford to give, and therefore, we were at
a dead end unless we could buy the time through the generosity of
some company who wanted to make it a public service. Otherwise^
we would have gone off the air with the show.
Mr. Adamson. But you are sending the show out to 17 district
offices now, where it is being broadcast free of charge? Is that not
true?
Mr. WooLLEY. I can't put that together. "What do you mean by
that?
Mr. Adamson. You are sending these transcriptions out, you say,
to your district offices — 17 of them.
Air. A\'ooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And I understand they are being broadcast by the
radio stations free of charge?
Mr. WooLLEY. Well, there are many stations in each of these dis-
tricts.
Mr. Adamson. Did you send a record to each of those stations —
or do you?
Mr. WooLLEY. No; we send a record to each of the districts, and
when the radio people call up and say, "Have you got any material
for us?" We have some time. Sometimes it is one time and some-
times it is another — just whenever they have space, and they ask,
"Have you any material for us?" Then they let them have this
platter, which fills in this; they either do that or the}" supply script,
or they give them other materials that they can use for the time
that they are willing to give.
Mr. Adamson. But they are running the show free of charge? la
that not true?
Mr. WooLLEY. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And they do cover your region pretty well?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. So that you do not need a powerful station in New
York to reach out and cover the rest of the region, do you?
Mr. WooLLEY. Well, I don't know whether j^ou know that tech-
nically, a so-ciilled dead-end show is not nearly so good as a live show;
in fact, when you put on a record and you say, "This is a recorded
program" in radio parlance, you might just as well not put it on.
The Chairman. Mr. Woollev, I assume that some of these smaller
stations that lie within the various districts are never listened to by
54 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
the great majority of people who reside in that section, as against a
station Hke WOR, that hes outside of the district?
Mr. WooLLEY. I think that is correct, because as a matter of fact,
we make no attempt to force a radio show on any radio station.
They come to us and ask us for materiaL They do our price hst,
our rationings changes, and so forth, and it is a service that the radio
people have been willing to give distribution to, as the newspapers
have.
Mr. MuNDT. You mean little stations or big stations?
Mr. WooLLEY. The big stations, you see, give — first of all, they
give a tremendous amount of time to all Government activities, and
they give as much as they have agreed to give — I don't know what it
is, but there is a definite amount of time that has been decided upon.
If you go to them for additional time they will say, "I am sorry, but
we cannot give you our time." Ordinarily, we clear that time that
we can get on a big station through OWI.
Mr. Adamson. On that point can you tell us the regulations laid
down by your office, that Mr. Weiner is supposed to follow in handling
this script? Let us assume that he has completed a script. What is
he supposed to do with it then? How far ahead is he supposed to
finish it?
Mr. WooLLEY. I could not give you exactly the number of days or
hours, but he is supposed to have it sufficiently far in advance so that
OWI may edit the script as to quality and get it back to us in time
for production.
Mr. Adamson. I understood Mr. Potter, I believe, and Mr. Bowles,
yesterday to say that those scripts were also supposed to be edited
by the Office here in W'''ashington, the Office of OPA. Is that true?
Mr. W OOLLEY. Well, I do not know whether they are supposed to
be edited. I think they are looked over, then referred to OWI.
OWI has the final say as to what can go on the air. Of course, they
are also edited by WOR.
Mr. Adamson. Is it your understanding that the Office of OPA
here in Washington is supposed to edit this script or not? That is
the point I am interested in.
Mr. W OOLLEY. Yes; they have every right to object to anything
they do not like in the script.
Mr. Thomas. Is it a question of right, or is it a question of ruling
by the national office of OPA?
Mr. WooLLEY. So far as I know, I don't think we have ever gotten
a definite ruling in writing as to what the procedure is to be.
Mr. Adamson. But it has been your practice to send the script to
the head office of OPA?
Mr. WooLLEY. It is a definite ruling that OPA has to O. K. every-
thing.
Mr. Thomas. But at the present time in your head office of
OPA
Mr. WooLLEY (interposing). I must admit that I do not know
what the procedure is here in the national office for editing script.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter said yesterday, as you remember, that
the scripts were all supposed to come here to this office, because
Washington happened to be in your region, as I miderstood hun, and
that they had a staff in the OPA office here.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 55
Mr. WooLLEY. No. Washington is not — the district office is in
my region, not the national office. You have got the head office of
the OPA in Washington, but we also have a district office that corre-
sponds to the district in Trenton, or Pittsburg or Philadelphia.
Mr. Adamson. But Mr. Potter said yesterday that the scripts were
supposed to come here to certain employees on the staff, who were
charge'd with that duty, as I understood him.
Mr. WooLLEY. I think that he said that; yes.
Mr. Adamson. And do you know whether or not Mr. Weiner has
instructed to follow that procedure?
Mr. WooLLEY. I know that he is not only instructed, but he does it.
Mr. Adamson. You do send them here and they do edit the script?
Mr. WooLLEY. I do not know what they do with them. We send
them here.
Mr. Adamson. And is it not true that they return them to Mr.
Weiner with their editorial comments?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. And if you found that Mr. Weiner disregarded those
instructions or those editorial comments, would you wish to keep
him, still?
Mr. WooLLEY. I might go so far as to agree that I think the edi-
torial changes were out of order.
Mr. Adamson. That is a very important point, Mr. Woolley, that
I would like to have you make clear to this committee. Which
office is supreme in this matter?
Mr. Woolley. The national office is supreme, but that does not
keep a regional office from maldng a protest where, in the handling
of the script, they make it inocuous and something that I am quite
sure from my experience as a radio director, nobody will listen to.
Mr. Adamson. Well, in these instances which we will show subse-
quently, where Mr. Weiner has disregarded the editorial changes
made here in Wasliington, are they made with your knowledge and
consent, or just you tell — you tell him to go ahead and disregard
them?
Mr. Woolley. No.
Mr. Adamson. What is your policy?
Mr. Woolley. For instance, if they change — after all, what we
want to know in the production of a program is this: Is it in accord-
ance with the policy of the Government — which, in this particular
case, is set by OWI — or is it somebody's wliim that they do not want
to use it, to say when, why, where, or some other thing? To begin
with, all of your radio scripts have to be changed natm'ally, at the last
minute. They give me sentences that they have changed, that I
can't say. I don't kr.ow whether you have been on the radio very
much, but there are certain tonguetwisters that you have got to
have simple language for. I will state this: I definitely would not
permit any change in policy. When it comes to make the scripts
readable and understandable either I can say, or the union actors
can say — those people are all taken off the list— then I say, "Well,
that would be better if that were changed this way." But we always
tried to compromise. I am always hopeful that we will get along on
an amicable basis.
Mr. Adamson. Let us assume a hypothetical case here, for the
sake of clarifying it. Suppose Mr. Weiner sends down a script on the
56 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
first of the month. Suppose the staff here in Mr. Potter's office
reviews the script, makes editorial changes and returns it on the
5th of the month. Suppose the show is scheduled to go on on the 10th.
Mr. Weiner goes over the script on the 6th or 7th, as soon as he gets
around to it, and he doesn't like the editorial changes that have been
made in Washington; is it the policy of your office to disregard the
changes made here in Washington and go ahead with the original
script, or does he come to you and ask you what do do about it?
Mr. WooLLEY. No; he does not come to me. The policy is for him
to telephone the Washington office and say, "We think it would be
better if you left this in the way it was in the first place."
If they still do not want it clone, then we do what they tell us to.
Mr. Thomas. Has that been the practice?
Mr. WooLLEY. Yes.
Mr. MuNDT. If, instead of doing what they told you to, Mr.
Weiner was to go ahead and still do what he pleased, would you still
want to keep Mr. W^einer in your employ?
Mr. WooLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. Let me give you an example here, Mr. Woolley.
Suppose Mr. Weiner follow^ed the policy of outlining his openingTin
these plays, and in saying that this program is to assist OPA in its
fight against fascism, for example, and the Washington office objected
to the word "fascism" and wanted him to substitute "inflation" and
Mr. Weiner persistently refused to make the substitution, but went
ahead and used the word "fascism" instead of "inflation," how would
you regard that conduct?
Mr. WooLLEY. I would say that is very bad cooperation between
Mr. W einer and the national office.
Mr. Adamson. And if that is the fact, would you think that was
ground for Mr. Weiner's discharge?
Mr. Woolley. No.
Mr. Adamson. You would still want to keep him?
Mr. Woolley. I would still want to keep him. I would consider
that that was a matter of temperament between probably two in-
dividuals.
Mr. MuNDT. That is not quite clear to me. Let me see if I under-
stand it, Mr. Woolley. I understand you to say that if, instead of
displaying, or describing to the people of New York City that OPA
is an agency to fight inflation, Mr. Weiner would describe it as an
agency to fight fascism, you would say, "Well, that is O. K. We will
still keep it 'fascism' instead of 'inflation.' "
Mr. Woolley. Well, you are putting thoughts in my head that I
never possibly could have.
Mr. MuNDT. That is what I understood you to say.
Mr. Woolley. No; I say, if Mr. Weiner, in one instance, was asked
to change the word "fascism" to "inflation" and he did not do that, I
would say that that was very bad cooperation between Mr. Weiner
and, therefore, I would censure him, but I don't think that that is
cause for dismissal.
Mr. MuNDT. Just once?
Mr. Woolley. I said once. I understood counsel only asked once.
Mr. MuNDT. If it was done repeatedly.
Mr. Woolley. If it was done repeatedly and he repeatedly refused
to do what he was told to do, Mr. W^einer would have to go.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 57
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Woolley, don't you think that the staff in Mr.
Potter's ofhee here shouhl be really better qualilied to determine
matters of poliey in publicity for OPA than Mr. Weiner would be?
Mr. "Woolley. I think so.
Mr. Ad.val'iON. And don't you tliink there should be an iron-bound
rule that Mr. Weiner should obey the instructions from Washington
without aj-gument or dispute?
Mr. Woolley. No; I do not. I think we have problems in each
one of these territories that arc peculiar to themselves, and if you are
going to reduce us to the status of a messenger or a mouthpiece office
boy, then you don't need a regional office.
Let me just put one other thing in there. Of course, it depends a
great deal on who the individual is who is making these decisions.
If the decision comes from somebody who is responsible, that is one
thing; if that correction or procedure comes from some little, low-down
boy down the fine, then I think that is another thing. I would like
to know who the authority is for deciding a change in policy in the
regional office.
Mr. Adamson. Didn't you hear Mr. Potter say yesterday that he
had had several persons on his staff who were designated and charged
with the duty of looking after this business?
Would you consider them to be too low down in the scale to receive
proper respect and attention from your office?
Mr. Woolley. I was interested in the exhibit that you put in from
someone whom we had to inquire a long time to find out who he was.
Mr. Adamson. I do not think you are answering my question, Mr.
Woolley. We have a situation here where IMr. Potter has said under
oath that he has people in his office who have been designated to do
this work.
Mr. Woolley. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. How do you regard those people, whoever they are?
Do they fall in this low-down class that you mentioned?
Mr. Woolley. Mr. Potter has many people on his staff. Among
them are people of great responsibility, for whom I have much respect,
and those people, naturally, tlieii' orders are strictly adhered to, but
once in a while somebody else creeps into it, and those we question,
"Who are you, and what kind of orders are these you are giving us?"
Mr. Adamson. W^ell, you still do not answer the question, Mr.
Woolley.
Mr. Woolley. I think my choice of the expression "low down"
was a little unfortunate. I mean low down in the scale of employments,
not that they are low-down people.
Mr. Adamson. I understand that you mean relatively on the
official scale.
Mr. W^ooLLEY'. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Not in character. I did not take it in that manner.
Mr. Woolley. Well, I hoped you would not.
Mr. Adamson. Now, let us stick to the people whom Mr. Potter
described. He said they were delegated to do the work. I w^ant you
to tell me if those people— that is, in your estimation, the estimation
of your office, are of sufficient responsibility to control this situation.
Mr. Woolley. I would not know that.
Mr. Adamson. You don't know whether Mr. Weiner adheres to
theu" instructions or not?
58 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. WooLLEY. When there has been any conference in which I was
brought in, I asked the head of the information — I have consulted
with them and asked, "Is this the thing you want to do?"
And invariably we reach an amicable understanding and we go
ahead with the show. Now, there is a certain amount of bickering
that goes back and forth that I would consider so unimportant com-
pared to the general scheme of things that I do not know who you
mean by all these individuals. I don't know who Mr. Potter meant,
because I only know the heads of the various departments in the
Office of Price Administration.
Mr. Adamson. I believe Mr. Potter named several here yesterday
You mean to tell me you never heard of them?
Mr. WoOLLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. You do not even know who they are?
Mr, WoOLLEY. No.
Mr. Adamson. Well, Mr. Woolley, to cut this matter short, will you
tell us now how much personal contact you have with this play and
the supervision of the script and material and so forth? How much
time do you devote to it?
Mr. WooLLEY. I go on the rehearsal an hour before the show goes
on, and I listen to the script very carefully. If I think there are things
in there that are not presented properly — that do not properly repre-
sent and present the program and our ambition to hold inflation, or
that would in any way reflect upon any class of people or any indi-
vidual or any business, I immediately say I do not like those words
the way that is said. They will have to be put a little differently, or
we will have to delete that. I am given statements to make which
are written for me, and I invariably change the writing to suit my own
peculiar style first, and to see to it that they are things that I would
care to say, things that are for the public good.
Mr. Adamson. But you are already in the studio then.
Mr. Woolley. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. That is all of the supervisory attention that you
give to the program?
Mr. Woolley. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And you don't know what transpires, really, while
the script is being edited and formulated?
Mr. Woolley. No.
Mr. Adamson. It is 5 minutes of 11, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Let us proceed with Mr. Woolley, Mr. Adamson.
Mr. Kobinson. I thought we were going to get down to brass tacks
today.
Mr. "Thomas. The attorney is putting on one witness right after
another. He can't put them all on at one time.
The Chairman. Let us proceed with Mr. Woolley, Mr. Adamson.
Mr. Adamson. I have no further questions of Mr. Woolley at this
time.
The Chairman. Are there any other questions of Mr. Woolley by
the committee?
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Woolley, did you confer with anyone with a
view to canceling these committee hearings?
Mr. Woolley. I did not.
Mr. Thomas. You never conferred with anyone?
Mr. Woolley. No, sir.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 59
Mr. Thomas. That is all I have.
The Chairman. That is all, Mr. Woollcy. Thank you very much.
Now, we want to call Mr. Potter.
TESTIMONY OF ZENAS L. POTTER— Resumed
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, I want to ask you if you would let me
have that employment application that you mentioned in answer to
a question here by one of the members. I want to get that in detail
for the record.
Mr. Potter was sworn vesterday. You need not take the stand,
Mr. Potter.
In response to a request-
The Chairman. Just a moment. So everything will be clear for
the record, Mr. Woolley may now return to New York?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. Thank you very much for coming down,
Mr. Woolley.
In response to my request Mr. Potter has produced here for inspec-
tion bv the committee an employment application by Mr. Tex Her-
man Weiner of 222 West Eightj^-Third Street, New York City, which
indicates that he was born on December 28, 1912, and he made this
application for employment on May 16, 1944. He says he was born
in Philadelpliia, Pa., is married; 6 feet tall, weighs 200 pounds, so we
can identify the gentleman if necessary. He describes his educational
background, his qualifications, as Temple University Pre-Law School;
National University ^School of Law, 3 years; LL.B. That was
1934-37.
After his law degree he w^ent to a school called, Dramatic Workshop,
Playwriting. He gives his previous employment by the Government
as OWI, Overseas Branch. Says he at present is a free-lance radio
writer. There are other details in his application, references, which
I have looked over very briefly. He gives other people for whom he
has worked, Benton & Bowles, Philips H. Lord, Columbia Broad-
casting System. Then he says. Office, Bureau of Information,
Public Relations, for the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Robinson. Does he give the date and age?
Mr. Adamson. That will make him 31, he says here, last May.
He has only been with the OPA, Mr. Robinson, for, I think, a little
less than a year.
Mr. Potter. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. I want this in the record so we might be able to
identify him if we find there are other people in there named ^'N einer.
The Chairman. We will hear Mr. Potter now, Mr. Adamson, if you
are ready for him.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter has been sworn previously.
Mr. Potter. Do you want me to enter in the record the material
which you asked for?
Mr. Adamson. Yes. I understood you were going to bring that
information in.
Mr. Potter. As I have already stated, the office sent out to the
regional administrators in other OPA regions besides region 2, informa-
tion about this show, and a sufficient number of scripts to let the other
regional administrators see the nature of this show and determine
whether they wanted to make use of it or not. The first mailing was
60 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
on September 18, and along with lists of other radio material that the
other regions might use, this statement was made:
Soldiers with Coupons. The New York Office is now doing a bang-up 15-minute
dramatic program each week. Tex Weiner, regional radio director, writes and
produces the show. With the exception of the regional administrator the cast is
made up of professional actors and musicians. The cost averages about $168 a
week. The program is over WNEW, New York City, and transcribed for use in
the district. About 26 stations are carrying the program now.
Knowing that many of you are interested in dramatic scripts, we will include
the New York script in the sheets shipped each week, provided, of course, it is
suitable for general distribution.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, that was up until May 1 or April 1?
You mentioned WNEW there.
Mr. Potter. Yes; that is right. You see, his was sent out to the
regions when the show started.
Mr. Adamson. At that time WNEW was running the show free?
Mr. Potter. That is my understanding.
Mr. Adamson. And who was paying the $168 a week to the help?
Mr. Potter. The regional Office of Price Administration, I believe,
was paying it.
Mr. Adamson. All right; go ahead.
Mr. Potter. On September 25, we again included a copy of the
script with these words:
Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject:
Nylon Black Market.
On October 2, we sent out the script with these words:
Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject:
Rent Control.
On October 9', we sent out the script:
Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject:
The Black Market in Meat.
The Chairman. The others are similar, except in title?
Mr. Potter. Just one more. On October 16 it was sent out with
the words:
Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject:
Price Panel Assistants.
At that time we felt that the other regions had a better idea of the
show, and if they wanted to make any use of it, they could do so.
Since then there has been no distribution of special information about
this show to another region.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, did you hear all of Mr. Woolley's
testimony?
Mr. Potter. I did, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Can you enlighten us on one point there? Mr.
Woolley said he did not know of anybody on your staff who was
assigned to the job of editing these scripts. Coidd it be possible that
the regional office in New York does not know officially that you have
such persons on your staff?
Mr. PoTiER. I am sure that they know that we have people dealing
with radio in the New York office. As I explained yesterday this
radio script never would have come to New York, to our national
office, for consideration save for the fact that our New York region
overlapped to two OWI regions, otherwise, it would have been cleared
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 61
locally with OWI in Now York. Since the program overlapped two
regions, OWI wanted to clear it in Washington, consequently, it came
into our New York office and we looked it over here, too, and shipped
it to New York.
The Chairman. You said it came into 5^our New York office?
Mr. Potter. I beg pardon, sir. To our Washington office, and it
was gone over here by our radio department, which heads up under
Mr. Herb Little, who is Special Assistant Deputy Administrator in
charge of — what is your title?
Mr. LiiTLE. Editorial Division.
Mr. Potter. In charge of the Editorial Division and supervises
radio, press, magazines, visual, graphic presentation, and things of
that kind.
Mr. Adamson. Do you regard Mr. Little's department as depend-
able and capable?
Mr. Potter. Very much so.
Mr. Adamson. And you said yesterday that there was no other
dramatic program put out over the air by OPA in the United States?
Mr. Potter. Regularly presented, sir.
Mr. Adamson. As a regular program?
Mr. Potter. That is right.
Mr. Adamson, So that if another regular dramatic program were
authorized, jou might requu'e it to be sent to Washington for editorial
comment, naturally?
Mr. Potter. No; it would not come here. Normally, it would be
cleared with the OWI office in the region where it originates.
Mr. Adamson. But there is no other such program in the country
at the present time?
Mr. Potter. No; but all our information programs originating in
each region over the country are cleared with OWI in that region,
provided it does not overlap a couple of OWI offices, in which case
they might send it down to New York for clearance.
Mr. Adamson. That is all I have of Mr. Potter at this time, Mr.
Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions by the committee?
Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Potter, do you have the list of the radio stations
which broadcast these platters without charge, as Mr. Woolley
indicated?
Mr. Potter. It was in — it was entered in the record yesterday,
the names of the stations to which these transcriptions are sent.
Mr. Adamson. One inconsistency, Mr. Mundt — I understood Mr.
Woolley to say that he had 17 districts, and that he picked out one
station in each district that he wants to use that time.
Mr. Woolley. I would say there is more than one station in each
district, any station that liappens to have time and is willing to use it,
they can get it. It may not be the same station each week.
Mr. Adamson. I believe there were 25 or 30 stations on that list.
Mr. Potter. There are, I think, 30 stations at the present time,
making use of flashes.
Mr. Adamson. So there might be several stations in one district;
is that correct?
Mr. Potter. I think so.
Mr. W^ooLLEY. Yes; that is right.
62 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. MuNDT. They are all small stations, I presume, except WOR?
Mr. Potter. I don't know the list, sir. I don't recall. It was
entered here. I imagine that they are mainly local stations used in the
advertising business.
Mr. MuNDT. There has been considerable discussion during the
tune counsel was interrogating Mr. Woolley about the competency
of the W/'ashington office to give good advice to Air. Weiner, so I
wish you would tell us something about Mr. Little, so we can see
whether he is low down in this scale of officialdom, or whether he has
considerable capacity.
Mr. Potter. We think Air. Little a very able man. I believe he
handled the news up here on the Hill for a great many years. He is
a splendid newsman.
Mr. Thomas. Then he could not be low down on the scale.
Mr. Potter. I think he is a good man.
The Chairman. There was no inference in what Mr. Woolley said,
that the heads of the department would be low down on the official
scale.
Ml. Potter. Oh, no.
The Chairman. There is a misconception on that score.
Mr. Potter. I would just like to say this about that, that I think
what Mr. Woolley referred to is the fact that a Air. Van Brunt in our
organization, who is not in the Radio Department wrote certain
comments across one of these scripts, which was quoted in the record
yesterday and Mr. Woolley did not concede that he was the man to
properly determine what should go into the show, or what should not
go into the show.
Mr. MuNDi. Is Air. Van Brunt on the staff of Mr. Little?
Mr. Potter. No; he is in the Program Planning Department there,
and this script, apparently went over his desk and he wrote these
comments.
Mr. AluNDT. Then the script is not sent to Mr. Little; it is sent to
Mr. Van Brunt?
Mr. Potter. No; it is sent to Mr. Little's office, and Mr. Van
Brunt is not in Mr. Little's office; he is in another branch of the
Information Department.
But this script happened to go over his desk and he wrote these
comments which were read into the record yesterday.
Air. MuNDT. But the usual procedure is for the script to go through
Mr. Little's office?
Mr. Potter. That is right.
Mr. MuNDT. And somebody is designated by him to make the
corrections and modifications?
Mr. Potter. Yes, sir.
Mr. MuNDT. So that the one that was criticized by Mr. Van Brunt
just happened to be a deviation?
Mr. Potter. Mr. Little may send the show to anybody around his
office, he may send it to somebody to get his comments.
But Mr. Van Brunt is not m Mr. Little's office and is not regularly
assigned to edit script.
He just happened to get this script, and he wrote across it.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, would you be good enough to tell us
Mr. Van Brunt's title?
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 63
Mr. Potter. I do not thiiik he has a title, sir, except as a member
of tlio stall" of the Program Plamiing Department of the Branch of the
Information Department.
Mr. Adamson. Well, as a matter of fact
Mr. Potter (interposmg). He may have some title, but I could
not tell you. He is not the head of the Program Branch — Program
Planning Department.
Mr. Adamson. Is it not true that this script was sent to Mr. Van
Brunt because they wanted his criticism?
Mr. Potter. I imagine so, sir. I think the best thing to do, if
you want to get mto the editing of this — Mr. Little is here, and
would be glad to go on the stand and tell your committee exactly
what his editorial procedures were and how it happened to get into
the hands of Mr. Van Brunt.
Mr. Adamson. You particularly referred to Mr. Van Brunt, and I
assume from your testimony you regarded Mr. Van Brunt's memo-
randum as of little weight. Now, is it not true that they probably
asked Mr. Van Brunt for his opinion because they had doubt about
the program?
Mr. Potter. I do not know the circumstances under which they
shifted this to him. I don't know what value they put on his judg-
ment. I think the best thing to do would be to ask Mr. Little those
questions, because any answer that I gave you would be pure assump-
tion on my part.
Mr. Thomas. I would like to ask one question.
Mr. Potter, did you confer with anyone with a view to canceling
these committee hearings?
Mr. Potter. Yes, sii-.
Mr. Thomas. Whom did you confer with?
Mr. Potter. The chairman of the committee.
Mr. Thomas. Who else?
Mr. Potter. Mr. Robmson.
Mr. Thomas. Who else?
Mr. Potter. Mr. Bonner, I think.
Mr. Thomas. Who else did you confer with?
Mr. Potter. And I think Air. Peterson.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. who?
Mr. Potter. Mr. Peterson.
Mr. Thomas. \Mio else did you confer w^th?
Mr. Potter. I think that is all.
Mr. Thomas. Do you not recall conferring with someone about 2
weeks ago?
Mr. Potter. I think I did.
Mr. Thomas. Did you confer with any of our investigators or
counsel?
Mr. Potter. No, I did.
Mr. Thomas. Very well. That is all I have.
The Chairman. AVhat was the tenor of the remarks, the conference
you had with the chairman?
Mr. Potter. I told the chairman I was concerned that this in-
vestigation was being made under the circumstances at this time;
that I felt it might interfere — might have a bearing upon the renewal
of the Price Control Act before Congress, and I felt that it probably
64 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
would be better if it could be postponed and not be involved in any
way in the operation of the price-control bill.
Mr. Adamson. On that point, did you ask me at any time
The Chairman (interposing). Just a minute, Mr. Adamson. He
is talking about his conference with the chairmai!.
Mr. Adamson. I beg pardon.
Mr. Potter. I never have talked with you save over the phone,
Mr. Adamson.
The Chairman. What did the chairman tell you with respect to it?
Mr. Potter. He told me the thing should not be postponed.
The Chairman. The chairman told >ou the hearing had been
ordered by resolution of the committee, and the chairman was power-
less to change it?
Mr. Potter. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. You did confer with the counsel, though, over the
phone?
Mr. Potter. I talked to him a number of tim.es. I don't think I
ever made any request of that kind.
The Chairman. Did the chairman refer you to counsel?
Mr. Potter. I do not think so.
The Chairman. I think you are in error on that. I told you
that — this may be considered as under oath — I told you counsel was
in charge of the investigation and that it would be better to talk
with him than with me about any adjustment of the period of the
hearing.
Mr. Robinson. What are you going to do now, start an investiga-
tion of the committee?
Mr. Thomas. What I am leading up to is another point that will
come out when the next witness comes on, and you will understand
what I was driving at. I did not realize that he had conferred with
all you gentlemen. I am sorry about that.
Mr. Robinson. I will be responsible if you want to ask me.
Mr. Thomas. No; I did not know he had conferred with so many
people. I was trying to find out whether he conferred with another
person.
Mr. Bonner. I think my name has been mentioned here. Mr.
Potter did come to my office, and I told him I knew nothing about it,
and I have been here 2 days now and I still know nothing about it.
I don't think anyone else does.
But some certain few know something about it. I surely have
wasted 2 days here if I have not got something in my mind that 1 can
connect all this stuff with.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Bonner, you voted for this hearing?
Mr. Bonner. Never heard of it.
Mr. Thomas. Didn't you vote to have the hearing?
Mr. Bonner. Well
■ The Chairman (interposing). This is all out of order, gentlemen.
The gentleman from North Carolina is not subject to questioning
from other members of the committee. He has a right to rnake his
statement since his name has been mentioned, and it is not in order
for any other member of the committee to question whatever he says
in his statement.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry that the answers to the
questions did include you gentlemen. I never realized anything like
that.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 65
^\'hfit I am driving at is this — —
The Chairman. The chair is not asking an}^ sympathy m the
matter. I have nothing to apologize for.
Mr. Thomas. I understand he got in touch with one of our
investigators.
Mr. KoBiNsoN. I would Uke to make this statement, Mr. Chair-
man. About 2 weeks ago, Mr. Potter spoke to me about this and told
me he thought it might interfere with OPA. I told him I thought it
might do so also, and I thought it should be continued for a couple
of weeks, and I think so now.
If there is any question about it, I think it should be continued
now. And so far as Mr. Thomas asking if we did not order this
investigation, I want to tell him llefinitely that I had nothing to do
with ordering it.
Mr. Thomas. You voted for it^ — you voted for it twice.
Mr. Robinson. I did not vote for it. I have been sitting around
here for 2 days to find out what it is all about, and yet I do not know
what it is about.
Mr. MuRDOCK. My name has not been mentioned. In connection
with this, Mr. Potter did not consult with me, but if he had, I should
have been sure to suggest that these hearings be postponed.
Mr. Potter. I went to see you, sir, but you were out of your office.
[Laughter.]
Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask. a question while
we are in this good, jolly mood. I would like to ask Mr. Potter how
it happens that as the official liaison officer of the OPA, in conducting
the business of his office, he simply goes around and talks to Demo-
cratic members of the committee. He didn't come to see any Repub-
licans at all.
Mr. Potter. Well, sir, if he — if you want to have an explanation of
that, I should be glad to give it.
Mr. MuNDT. I would like to have it.
Mr. Potter. I looked over the votmg record of the members of
the committee on legislative matters favorable to or against price
control, and I consulted the members who had voted favorably to
price control because I noticed that some of the others voted against
us on every step of the bill.
Mr. MuNDT. You must not have looked up my record, because I
happen to have voted for OPA.
Mr. Potter. Well, I apologize. [Laughter.]
Mr. MuNDT. I am glad you did not come to me. I don't believe
in having officials come in trying to tell us what to do, and if any-
body on the part of OPA had come to my office, you would not have
received very friendly reception. But I wondered how I happened
to be missed. I thought you were the liaison officer between OPA
and all Members of Congress, not just Democratic members of Con-
gress and the OPA.
Air. Potter. Well, sir, I happen to be a registered Republican
myself, but I am very much interested in inflation control. I believe
in it thoroughl}^ and I was trying to serve that interest, sir.
Mr. MuNDT. So am I. I voted for OPA.
The Chairman. Any further questions of Mr. Potter?
Mr. Adamson. For the information of all the members of the com-
mittee, Mr. Potter I will ask you why you never requested any
adjournment of these hearings thiough me, did you?
66 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Potter. No.
Mr. Robinson. Wliat difference does that make?
Mr. Potter. I talked to the Chairman. I thought he was the
proper person to talk to.
The Chairman. Is that all, Mr. Adamson?
Mr. Adamson. That is all I have.
The Chairman. All right, Mr. Potter.
Mr. Potter. Yesterday the question was raised about the suitabil-
ity of Standard Brands, Inc., financing a show of this type for the
Government and I called attention to the activities
The Chairman (interposing). Let me say this: This inquiry does
not include the propriety of business organizations sustaining programs
in the hands of the Government, set let us not go into that. It has no
part in this hearing. This hearing is devoted to a single subject:
Whether or not the broadcasts were of a subversive nature, and I wish
we could get down to the heart of the subject and let us find out
whether they were or not.
Mr. Potter. Does that conclude with me?
The Chairman. Yes, Mr. Potter. Thank you.
The committee will adjourn until next Wednesday morning at 10
o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 11:20 a. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m.
Wednesday, June 27, 1945.)
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 27, 1945
House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. John E. Rankin presiding.
Mr. Rankin. The committee will come to order. The chairman
had to go away on some other matter this morning and asked me to
preside.
Mr. Adamson, you have some matters that you wish to take up
this morning?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. 1 would like to call Mr. McDavitt.
Mr. Rankin. Mr. McDavitt, will you be sworn?
TESTIMONY OF GEORGE V. McDAVITT, INVESTIGATOR, COM-
MITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
(The witness was duly sworn by Mr. Rankin.)
Air. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I now have from the Civil Service
Commission an official letter which I shouldlike to read into the record,
to save time. This is dated June 23, 1945, and reads as follows:
Pursuant to Mr. McDavitt's telephone request of Mr. F. W. Luikart, Chief of
our Investigations Division, there is attached a copy of the report of investigation
in the case of Mr. Max Mencher. Mr. Mencher is an employee of the Office of
Price .\dniinistration in New York City. As Mr. McDavitt was advised by Mr.
Luikart, the names of witnesses have been deleted from the report. Witnesses
are referred to as confidential information of the Civil Service Commission.
Mr. McDavitt also requested hiformation concerning Mr. Tex Weiner, another
employee of the OPA in New York City. Our records show that he claimed
December 28, 1912, as the date of birth in his civil-service papers. With regard
to his education he stated that he attended prelaw night school at Temple Univer-
sity in 1932. The exact dates were not indicated and he did not claim graduation.
He claimed that he attended National University for 3 years in day school from
1934 to 1937 and received an LL. B. degree. He also claimed .to have attended
the Dramatic Work Shop in 1939 and to have 1 year of playwriting seminar.
There is also attached a copy of the announcement for the position of program
director in the Office of Price Administration under which Mr. Weiner was exam-
ined and rated. You will note' that there are no educational requirements
specified in the announcement. Therefore, the Commission did not verify his
educational claim as a part of its examuiation. His educational claim would have
been verified if his schooling had been within the 5-year period covered by the
investigation or if it had been a requirement for the position.
If an applicant for a responsible position deliberately furnished mishi formation
to the Commission in the belief that by so doing he will enhance his chances of
appointment, the Commission would rate him ineligible on character groimds.
If the fact that such information had been furnished came to the Commission's
attention subsequent to the applicant's appomtment, we would normally require
his separation.
67
68 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
The examination announcement does specify that appHcants must have had 5
years of comprehensive and progressively reasonable experience in certain fields.
Accordingly, the Commission's investigation was devoted to the establishment of
Mr. Weiner's possession or lack of the experience requirements for the position
and he was found to be qualified.
We hope that this furnishes you the information you want. If we can be of
any further help, please let us know.
Then, annexed to that
Mr. Rankin (interposing). Who signed that letter?
Mr. Adamson. The letter is signed by William C. Hull, executive
assistant. Attached thereto is a mimeographed advertisement, I
suppose, or a circular, which describes the job in question. I wish
to offer this as one of the exhibits for .the record.
(The paper referred to, announcing an open competitive examina-
tion for the position of program director, was marked "Exhibit 13.")
United States Civil Service Commission, Recruiting Circular 2R-65, Form 57
Open Competitive Examination for the Position of Program Director,
Office of Price Administration
Salary, $2,800 a year, plus overtime pay
Overtime pay: The standard Federal workweek of 48 hours includes 8 hours
of overtime. The increase in compensation for overtime amounts on an annual
basis to approximately 21 percent of the part of the basic salary not in excess of
$2,900 a year.
for duty in the second region
Comprising the States of Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and
Pennsylvania, and the District of Columbia. Regional Headquarters: New York
City.
Closing date. — Applications will be received until the needs of the service have
been met.
Duties. — Under the supervision of the regional information executive, is respon-
sible for formulating plans for promotional programs of the Office of Price Adminis-
tration and for the working out of details for the promulgation thereof, conferring
frequently with various division heads in the agency as well as in other govern-
mental, civic, and private organizations; is responsible for the preparation, on own
initiative, of speeches and addresses for delivery by OPA executives, involving-
conferences with executives and the establishment of contracts with heads of other
organizations in order to readily obtain pertinent data for speeches; writes radio
addresses and prepares radio programs when representatives of the OPA are
invited to participate; determines on own initiative, dates when a radio address
by an OPA official would be propitious in the public interest, and makes plans for
such broadcast; establishes and maintains good relations with the various broad-
casting studios; organizes meetings and is responsible for the selection of the
proper speaker, requiring close contacts with the various groups and with the
numerous speakers available for outside speaking engagements; is responsible for
the selection of the subject material to be incorporated in such public addresses
and the subsequent preparation of the address.
Minimum qualifications. — Applicants must have had 5 years of comprehensive
and progressively responsible experience in (1) writing or editing for a metro-
politan newspaper, national magazine, news or information service operating on
a national scale, college or university agricultural extension service, or Federal or
State department or agency; or (2) radio broadcasting, including educational or
informational radio work requiring the preparation or the supervision of the
preparation of educational or informational radio manuscripts and the manag-
ing and broadcasting or recording for broadcasting of radio programs ; or (3) adver-
tising experience as a copy writer or account executive which must have been
experience involving use of varied media; or (4) informational or public relations
experience with such agencies as civic or governmental organizations or with
public or private educational institutions; or (5) any combination of the above
types of experience.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 69
The experience offered <o meet this requirement must have been of such scope
and extent of responsihiUty as to demonstrate conclusively the ability to perform
the duties of this jiosition. Api:)Iicants must have demonstrated ability to meet
and deal satisfactorily with the public.
Cilizenship, age and physical requirements
1. Api)licants must be citizens of or owe allegiance to the United States.
Forcisn-born applicants must furnish proof of citizenship.
2. There are no age limits for this position.
3. Applicants must be physically capable of performing the duties of the
position and be free from such defects or diseases as would constitute employment
hazards to themselves or danger to their fellow employees. Persons with physical
handicaps which they believe will not prevent their satisfactory performance of
the duties stated above are invited to apply.
General information
1. No written test is required. Applicants' qualifications will be judged from a
review of sworn statements as to their experience, and on corroborative evidence
secured by the Commission.
2. For appointments in the executive branch of the Federal Government
preference is granted, under the act of June 18, 1929, to honorably discharged
members of the armed forces of the United States, including members of the
Women's Reserves of the United States Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard;
members of the Women's Army Corps created by Public Law 110, approved
July 1, 1943. The widows of honorably discharged deceased veterans, and the
wives of certain honorably discharged disabled veterans are also entitled to
consideration for preference benefits.
3. Preference will be given in certification to eligibles residing in the area
served by the second region office of the Office of Price Administration.
4. The department or office requesting list of eligibles has the legal right to
specify the sex desired.
5. Appointments will be known as War Service appointments. Such appoint-
ments generally will be for the duration of the war and in no case will extend more
than 6 months beyond the end of the war.
6. All salaries are subject to a deduction of 5 percent for retirement annuity.
7. Appointments in the Federal service are made in accordance with War
Manpower Commission policies, directives, regulations, and employment stabili-
zation plans. This means generally that persons employed in certain activities
or occupations may be required to obtain statements of availability from their
emploj-ers or from the United States Employment Service before they can be
appointed. An offer of Federal appointment wll be accompanied by instructions
as to what steps the person must take to secure necessary clearance. Statements
of availability should not be secured until an offer of appointment is received.
8. Inclusion of a position on this notice does not mean that vacancies exist for
that specific position at present, but that vacancies in that and similar positions
w-ill be filled as they occur from applications on file.
How to apply
1. Applicants miist file the forms and material listed below, all properly
executed, with the Director, Second United States Civil Service Region, Federal
Building, Christopher Street, New York 14, N. Y.:
A. Application Form 57.
B. Form 14 with the evidence it calls for, if applicants desire to claim preference
because of military or naval service.
2. The necessary forms may be obtained at any first- or second-class post office
in which this notice is posted, or from the Director, Second United States Civil
Service Region, Federal Building, Christopher Street, New York 14, N. Y.;
Third United States Civil Service District, Customhouse, Second and Chestnut
Streets, Philadelphia 6, Pa.; Fourth United States Civil Service Region, Nissen
Building, Winston-Salem 3, N. C.
The exact title of the examination, as given at the head of this recruiting
circular, should be stated in the application form.
Director, Second United States Civil Service Region,
Federal Building, Christopher Street,
New York 14, N. Y.
70 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
United States Civil Service Commission — Closing Amendment to Recruiting
Circular 2R-64
Notice of Closing Date for Receipt of Applications for Program Director,
Office of Price Administration
Salary, $3,800 a year, plus overtime pay
FOR DUTY IN THE SECOND REGION
Comprising the States of Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and
Pennsylvania, and the District of Columbia. Regional Headquarters: New York
City.
Closing date.- — Applications will no longer be accepted for the position indicated
above as of July 27, 1944.
Full particulars regarding the examination were furnished in the original recruit-
ing circular 2R-64, issued April 19, 1944.
Director, Second United States Civil Service Region,
Federal Building, Christopher Street,
New York 14, N. Y.
Mr. Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I don't see the purpose of that.
I am going along with making a record, but I can't see the purpose of
this record. I can't see that it would have any effect on this investi-
gation.
Mr. Rankin. It has already been read.
Mr. Robinson. And having had it read
Mr. Rankin (interposing). It is already in the record. The
stenographer has been taking it down.
Mr. MuNDT. What is your objection, Mr. Robinson?
Mr. Robinson. I would like to sometime or other get something
connected with something. I thought what we were examining was
someone for un-American activities, not to see whether the Civil
Service Commission was passing on somebody's application for a job,
or something of that sort.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw the offer of the
letter and merely offer the circular, which describes the job officially
which Mr. Weiner holds.
Mr. Robinson. I think that is superfluous. There is no question
about what job he holds, is there?
Mr. Rankin. You object to that going into the record?
Mr. Robinson. I don't want to make any objection, but I do
think we ought to sometime get down to finding out what this is all
about.
Mr. Rankin. I thought that was w^hat counsel was doing.
Mr. Robinson. If that is what it is about, then we haven't any
jurisdiction in the matter.- We are not an examining committee to
see whether he passed a civil-service examination properly, or whether
he was properly admitted to the job or anything of that sort. That
has nothing to do with un-American activities.
Mr. Adamson. This will show that this man had falsified in his
civil-service application. Certainly to my mind that would go a long
way toward at least weighing his qualifications in the first instance.
Mr. Robinson. The Civil Service passed on his qualifications, as I
understand it. He may be the poorest kind of a radio operator in the
world, but it is not our concern.
Mr. Peterson. He might be engaged in un-American activities.
Mr. Robinson. The question is whether or not he did something
that was subversive and un-American.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 71
Mr. Rankin. I think counsel contends this is laying tlie foundation.
Mr. Robinson. All right; I will be patient.
Mr. Rankin. My Supreme Court once said:
Trifles light, as air may be fraught with deadly meaning when taken in connec-
tion with the facts and circumstances in a given case.
So I am gohig to admit that statement, the letter, to the record.
The letter has already been read into the record by counsel. All
right, Mr. Adamson.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt, before we get into the case of Mr.
Weiner
Mr. Rankin (interposing). It might be a good idea for counsel to
state to the committee what he is attempting to establish. That is
what the gentleman from Utah had in mind.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, at the last hearing, which you will
recall was stopped early in the day, due to the fact that the House
was meeting at 11 o'clock, Mr. Woolley, of the New York regional
office, testified that he had no power to discharge employees. I would
like to ask Mr. McDavitt one question on that subject, due to a
development that has come up since the last hearing, and has been
communicated to our office; therefore I think we have to take some
notice of it.
Mr. McDavitt, did you hear Mr. Woolley testify at the last hear-
ing?
Mr. McDavitt. That I did.
Mr. Adamson. Did you hear Mr. Woolley say that he had no
power to discharge employees in the regional office?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us what happened the day following
Mr. Woolley's appearance here?
Mr. McDavitt. Tlfe following morning he discharged — or the fol-
lo"v\^ng afternoon he discharged Mr. Paul A. Ross, who is the regional
enforcement attorney in charge of enforcement for the five States
under region 2.
Mr. Robinson. What has that got to do with this? Suppose he
discharged the whole outfit?
Mr. MuNDT. To me it makes a lot of difference whether lie is tell-
ing the truth or not. If he tells one thing in the morning and it is
made out a lie in the afternoon, I am interested in it.
Mr. Rankin. It means this, Mr. Robinson: If there is anyone on
the pay roll of this organization that is guilty of un-American activi-
ties, the gentleman has the same right to discharge him that he had
to discharge other employees, and I suppose that is what counsel is
bringing out.
^Ir. Adamson. I understood Mr. Woolley took the position at the
last hearing that even if he did know about some activities of Mr.
Weiner that he didn't like, he could not fire him anyway. Now, I
think he stated that very clearly in the last hearing. He said the rea-
son he couldn't take the step to cure the trouble was because of the
Civil Service regulations, that he had no power to discharge him.
Mr. Rankin. All right, go ahead.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. AIcDavitt, had you attempted to verify
the statements which were made by Mr. Weiner in connection with
his application for employment by the regional office in New York
of the OPA?
72 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. McDavitt. I have.
Mr. Adamson. Have you contacted Temple University?.
Mr. McDavitt. I did.
Mr. Adamson. Did Temple University tell you that they had ever
had a student by the name of Tex Herman Weiner, born in Decem-
ber 1912?
Mr. McDavitt. Temple University stated that as far as their
records indicated, they never had had a student by the name of Tex
Herman Weiner; they did have a party by the name of Herman
Weiner. However, this fellow was born July 4, 1906.
Mr. Rankin. Apparently a different man.
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Rankin. Now, on the question of his degree at National Uni-
versity, where is the main office of National University?
Mr. Adamson. Have you visited that main office?
Mr. McDavitt. I have.
Mr. Adamson. Tell us what the record that you inspected there
showed in regard to Mr. Weiner.
Mr. Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I don't like to be obnoxious, but
in the first place this is
Mr. Rankin (interposing). Now, let me say to the gentleman from
Utah, we are operating under the rules of the House, and in this in-
vestigation we are trying to proceed under the rules of evidence.
Mr. Robinson. This is not evidence.
Mr. Rankin. And if the gentleman from Utah wants to object to
any of this, any testimony that is offered, or if any other member of
the committee wants to object to any testimony offered, he may do
so and I will rule on his objection, but I don't see any reason for
carrying out a prolonged argument on the proposition. If this man
had falsified in order to get on the Federal roll, "4 think that is proper
and material to the question involved.
Mr. Robinson. If he had falsified, but I think that before we — my
point is that this is not evidence that he falsified. We have got to
bring the evidence, the records themselves, here.
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chan man I prefer that Mr. McDavitt testify.
I want to ask the witness a couple of questions.
Did anyone get in touch with you and ask you to stop this investiga-
tion, Mr .^McDavitt?
Mr. McDavitt. Do I have to answer?
Mr. Rankin. You are supposed to.
Mr. McDavitt. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. Tell them all you know, Mr. McDavitt. You are
under oath. Tell him everything you know.
Mr. McDavitt. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. And did they in their conversation with you offer
any sum of money in order to get you to stop the investigation?
Mr. McDavitt. They spoke of a sum of money, $5,000, referring
to my financial status, asking me how I was doing, and that $5,000
was a lot of money. They didn't stop there. I said, "I am not
interested in any stipend of that size for any purpose whatsoever."
In the beginning I thought that somebody was merely calling me to
have a joke. That is the way I treated it, and after I treated them
rather cooly, they said "We will smear yom* face so your wife won't
know you."
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 73
Mr. Rankin. Mr. McDavitt, before you go any further, was that
since you have been employed as an investigator of this committee?
Mr. McDavitt. That was approximately 3 weeks ago at this time.
They referred to the investigation.
Mr. Robinson. Who is "they"?
Mr. McDavitt. I received a telephone communication and the
conversation ran in this manner: "Are you Mr. McDavitt who has
been investigating down at OPA?" To which I said "Yes." I said
"Who is calling?" They said "This is a friend of yours. I under-
stand that you have had previous relations with the Office of Price
Administration." I said "That is true." They said "Well, you
know how to handle things like that. You can hold this report up
for a few days. You can change the material in it. You know
$5,000 is a lot of money." I said "I don't understand what you
mean." He said "Well, I think you do."
Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I bring this matter up to point out
that the enemies of this committee and the persons who are trying to
stop this investigation will stop at absolutely nothing; therefore I am
in favor of going through and bringing out every bit of evidence that
we can possibly touch upon. Eveiy thing is relevant in this case.
Mr. Rankin. Go ahead and answer the question.
Mr. McDavitt. There are other things said which I do not recall
verbatim, but I do remember that on toward the end he said "We
will smear you so your wife won't recognize your face." I still thought
it was a joke and paid little attention to it until the night. before the
20th of this month — that was the 19th — on that evening I met a
Member of Congress, and that Member of Congress said: "I have
been visited by an assistant of Mr. Bowles, who states that an in-
vestigator"
Mr. Robinson (interposing). Let us have the facts. Tell us his
name.
Mr. McDavitt. Mr. Peterson. And he said: "I was visited today
by an assistant of Mr. Bowles who stated that an investigator of our
committee went out and proceeded to get two girls intoxicated and
treated them in a deplorable manner."
Mr. Peterson. I didn't say "intoxicated." I said took them out
and had cocktails.
* Mr. McDavitt. That's right; and indicated that the processes
employed by the investigator of this committee were incorrect and
ungentlemanly, which of course they were not.
Air. Robinson. You state the facts; we will draw the conclusions.
Mr. Thomas. Let us get the facts, Mr. McDavitt.
Mr. Rankin. \A'hen you say "Mr. Peterson" you mean Mr. Peter-
son, of Florida here?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Rankin. There are two Petersons in the House.
Mr. McDavitt. This was Mr. Peterson of Florida.
Mr. Adamson. He is sitting right here looking at you now.
Mr. McDavitt. That's right. It so happens that the last night
that I was at the Office of Price Administration-
Mr. Robinson (interposing). Let us get this straight now. In
other words, you say that Mr. Peterson told you that you
Mr. McDavitt (interposing). No, sir. I didn't say that — that an
investigator from the committee.
74 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Robinson. That an investigator from the committee told him
that you were the investigator that had two girls out?
Mr. McDavitt. No; he said that an investigator from the com-
mittee had the girls out. /
Mr. Robinson. Who was the investigator?
Mr. McDavitt. I mentioned no names.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Robinson, I would like to say for the record
that the only investigator that I have sent down there to the OPA
is Mr. McDavitt. To the best of my knowledge he is the only one.
If another went do^vn., he went down without my knowledge or
mstruction.
Mr. Pete-rson. Maybe I can clear this. I meant Mr. McDavitt.
An OPA man told me about it, and I said to Mr. McDavitt "Some-
one from OPA told me the other day that one of our investigators
took a couple of girls home and intoxicated them." Then Mr.
McDavitt kind of smiled and said, "I guess I was the one." But at
that time I had no idea who it was.
Mr. Robinson. Do you have any idea now who it was?
Mr. Peterson. Mr. McDavitt said he is the one.
Mr. Adamson. He is the only investigator we have,
Mr. Peterson. I didn't know who he was talking about, but he
said it was he. Then he related his side of it.
Mr. Thomas. Who was the man from the OPA?
Mr. Peterson. Mr. Potter.
Mr. Adamson. I think Mr. Potter mentioned Mr. Peterson's name
the other day.
Mr. Peterson. 1 think probably he was making a mountain out of
mole hill. This came up about the time the legislation was coming up,
and he thought it might embarrass the legislation. Then he said one
of our investigators he found had nitoxicated a couple of girls and took
them home, and I said, "Well, what is all this about?" And the
investigator shrugged his shoulders and said, "The bill is coming up."
I happened to meet Commander Nicholas and Mr. McDavitt as I
was walking down to have supper, and they were coming this way, and
I just smiled and told them that. I never thought it was of any great
consequence, up to then they were telling the fact that they were
having cocktails with the girls. Then they shrugged their shoulders
and said, "The bill is coming up." Then Mr. McDavitt smiled and
said, "I was the one." Well, I didn't know you were the one at the
time.
Mr. Adamson. For your information, Mr. Peterson — I think you
were not present at the last hearing when Mr. Potter testified?
Mr. Peterson. No; I was not there. I had another meeting.
Mr. Adamson. In answer to my question he stated very frankly
that he had not asked me for any adjournment of any of these hearings.
Mr. Peterson. He didn't ask me for an adjournment. ^
Mr. Adamson. My thought is we are chasing off on a lot of immate-
rial matters. Every member of this committee this morning has
other committee meetings, and if we can just get the gist of the thing
that is what we want. We are losing a lot of time running around on
immaterial things.
Mr. Thomas. My reason for bringing up the question was to show
that all kinds of stumbling blocks have been put in the way of this
investigation.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 75
Mr. Peterson. That is true in all investigations. You can always
expect that.
Mr. Thomas. I didn't want to take it lying down. I just wanted to
show them we mean business.
Mr. Peterson. That is true in all kinds of investigations. The
man that is investigating is, as a rule, handicapped.
Mr. MuNDT. I can't think of any better way to make progress than
to let the witness testify.
Mr. Peterson. They brought my name into it, and I wanted to
make that statement.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, I think, is the gentleman who dragged
your name into it originally, Mr. Peterson, at the last hearing.
IMr. Peterson. Yes. I was not there. I don't know what he said,
but he came to my office and tried to indicate that this thing was com-
ing up because the bill was coming up.
Mr. Adamson. I thinlv that is what he said, in substance, in his
testimony, that he went to see several Members and told them that
this might impede or interfere with consideration of the OPA bill.
Mr. McDavitt, you said you went to the main office of National
University and inspected their records regarding tliis student, Tex
Herman Weiner?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right. . •
Mr. Adamson. And they permitted you to look at the records,
did they?
Mr. ^IcDavitt. They did.
Mr. Adamson. Do the records show that Tex Herman Weiner
received an LL. B. degree or any other degree from that university?
Mr. McDavitt. The records show that he did not graduate, that
he did not receive a degree. And there were three reasons for that.
He did not attend sufficient terms — he was supposed to attend nine
and he attended eight. The second one was, he never certified to
them that he graduated from high school, and the tliu'd was that he
owed tuition for two of the years, $350, wliich he had never paid.
Mr. Adamson. So that, so far as his statements concerning the
LL. B. are concerned, that is untrue?
Mr. McDavitt. It is inaccurate.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. McDavitt, have you contacted employees
of the OWI and the OPA here in Washington?
Mr. McDavitt. I have.
Mr. Adamson. And one of the statements made on Mr. Weiner's
employment application was that he had previously been employed
by 0\\I. ^\hat have 3^ou to say with regard to that statement?
Mr. McDavitt. Investigation of the records by the Office of War
Information failed to reveal that Mr. ^\emer had ever been emploj'ed
by them; and further, his superior, a man by the name of Newman,
the records also were inspected, and they found no employment
under that name either for Mr. Newman.
Mr. Adamson. Have 3^ou talked with persons both in New York
and in \\ ashington who have been in contact and have done business
with Mr. AVeiner?
Mr. McDavitt. I have.
Mr. Adamson. I believe you told me that you had contacted a
woman in New York who had been closely associated with Mr.
Weiner in business. Is that correct?
76 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. McDavitt. That is true.
Mr. Adamson. And what did she tell you concerning Mr. Weiner's
political activities and his declaration concerning his political beliefs?
Mr. McDavitt. I contacted a Mrs. Blanche Talbot of New York
City, who during the years 1942 and 1943 had some relationships in
a professional way with Mr. Weiner. She is an agent's playwright.
Authors of plays bring her script and then she proceeds to put them
on the market, or tries to sell the script for the office. One of the
scripts which Mr. Weiner furnished Mrs. Talbot to promote for
him
Mr. Adamson (interposing). Wait just a minute, Mr. McDavitt.
Let's get one important point. Did this lady tell you that Mr.
Weiner openly and notoriously declared himself to believe in the
Communist political faith?
Mr. McDavitt. He was consistently promoting communistic
ideas. He also brought consistently literature of a communistic
nature, and said:
Some day I will be a big man in this country and I will probably be Ambassador
to Russia.
Mr. Adamson. And did he openly declare to her in the presence of
other people that he adhered to the Communist principles?
Mr. McDavitt. He had on many occasions stated that he believed
in the communistic ideas and communistic form of government,
Mr. Adamson. Now go ahead where you left off.
Mr. McDavitt. On one particular script which he furnished Mrs.
Talbot to promote for him, she described it as shocking and filthy,
and she informed him that she would have nothing to do with this
type of script. At that particular time reference was made to the
Bible, and Mr. Weiner said — I have the quotation here — Mrs. Talbot
said she was a firm believer in God, and that such script was contrary
to her convictions, to which Mr. Weiner replied:
Well, take the Bible, for instance, of which you have previously spoken. That
book is the dirtiest, most immoral book ever written, and there are no clean
women in it.
This conversation so infuriated Mrs. Talbot that she began to see less
and less of Mr. Weiner, and from that time on they broke oft' relations.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. McDavitt, coming back here to Washing-
ton, have you talked with anyone in the OWI concerning Mr. Weiner's
communistic beliefs?
Mr. McDavitt. I have spoken with the executive publicity
director of OWI.
Mr. Adamson. And did he tell you in substance the same thing
about Mr. Weiner?
Mr. McDaviit. He stated that his feeling durmg his relationship
with Mr. Weiner, which extended back over several years, was that
Mr. Weiner's ideas were to the left definitely, and troublesome on
many occasions.
Mr. Adamson. Is it true that you have talked with quite a number
of the OPA employees who have charged particularly
Mr. Rankin. What is that question?
Mr. Adamson. You have talked with many employees of the OPA,
not OWI, here in Washington ; these people have charge particularly
of these radio scripts? Is that true, Mr. McDavitt?
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 77
Mr. McDavitt. That is true.
Mr. Adamson. And who arc the people down there with who you
iave talked, who have charge of these duties, to censor these scripts
■or^edit them, whatever they call it?
Mr. McDavitt. The first day I went there I met Mr. Herbert
Little, in charge of publicity. I told him that jve had had some
complaint in respect to the program, and he said that —
Due to the fact that I have only been here since January of this year, I would
like to have you talk with Miss Daubinspeck, who is in charge of the radio script
clearance office.
Miss Daubinspeck was brought in, and from that time on most of the
information was secured through the cooperation of Miss Daubinspeck
in respect to the programs.
Mr. Adamson. Has the office here in Washington, the OPA Office,
been cooperative and accommodating in dealing with you?
Mr. McDavitt. They have been very decent and very cooperative
and very fine.
Mr. Adamson. And you have experienced no delay and no inter-
ference, so far as the subordinate employees are concerned in the
OPA office here?
Mr. McDavitt. None whatsoever.
Mr. Adamfon. Can you tell us briefly
Mr. Rankin (interposing), I don't understand that this is any
investigation of the OPA.
Mr. Adamson. No; I just wanted to show
Mr. Rankin (interposing). This is an investigation of an individual
who is alleged to be subversive.
Mr. Adamson. Well, I tliink that question is necessary, Mr. Chair-
man, for this reason: These people have made available to Mr.
McDa\att their files and have shown him their criticisms and com-
ments against Mr. Weiner on this very point of his radio scripts, and
I wanted to make it clear that Mr. McDavitt did not obtain those
papers by any unfair methods. They have cooperated fully and
shown them to him.
Mr. Rankin. That bears out what I have said. Someone said a
while ago that it has been charged that this investigation was to
affect the bill pending in Congress. Not only it is not for that pur-
pose, but it has no effect on it whatsoever. As I understand it, we
are investigating individuals who are alleged to be subversive, whose
activities are alleged to be subversive.
Mr. Adamson. That is right. It seems to me we are commending
the subordinates of 0|*A here, Mr. Chairman, instead of condemning
them.
Mr. Rankin. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt informs me that they have given him
every cooperation down there, everything below Mr. Potter's office.
Mr. Rankin. I agree with that, but I wanted to make clear what
this investigation is for.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. McDavitt, have they allowed you not only
to read Mr. Weiner's script since he was employed by OPA, but have
they also arranged for you to listen to the electrical transcription of
these plays as they were put out over the radio?
Mr. AIcDavitt. Yes; they have.
78 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. And you have compared them?
Mr. McDavitt. I have.
Mr. Adamson. Now, going back to his statement about the Bible,
I beheve 3?t)u called my attention to a remark in one of his scripts
about the Bible. Have you got that handy there?
Mr. McDavitt. In one of his earlier scripts, a program in respect to
hotel and rooming-house operations under the regulations, it is neces-
sary for the proprietor of the establishment, or an employee, to hang
in each room the price for that room, either single or double, and during
the script it ran something like this: "Where will we hang this?" The
reply in the script "Put it in the Bible. Nobody looks in there."
Mr. Adamson. All right. Now, let us get onto
Mr. Robinson (interposing). Is there anything un-American in
that?
Mr. Adamson. We don't know. We submit that to the committee
merely for the purpose of hooking up with the criticism that this
woman in New York who was formerly associated with him had
made.
Mr. McDavitt, did you talk with a gentleman down in OPA by the
name of Van Brunt?
Mr. McDavitt. I did not talk with Mr. Van Brunt. I merely
reviewed his criticisms of the various scripts which Mr. Weiner had
sent to the Washington office for clearance.
Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us what Mr. Van Brunt does down
there?
Mr. McDavitt. Mr. Van Brunt's specific position is that of liaison
executive between a specialized group, such as the food group, and the
planning department or the broadcasting for publicity department.
He is supposed to be a specialist, and he is supposed to be able to read
a script and set forth whether the script is within the bounds of the
regulations and within the objectives of the Administration.
Mr. Adamson. And this whole memorandum was in the file which
was exhibited to you at the OPA office?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. What was the date of that particular program?
Mr. McDavitt. I think this one was February 12, 1945.
Mr. Adamson. And did they have another one on February 26
that Mr. Van Brunt criticized?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. Would you read the pencil memoranda written by
Mr. Van Brunt in connection with that program?
Mr. McDavitt. This is a memorandum directed to the script clear-
ance office, and it starts out:
Again! The whole tone of this script is bad, negative, ugly. Moreover, it
doesn't prove anything except, perhaps, that the OPA is a Gestapo organization.
Why can't they get really constructive, educational stories into these programs,
and a tone that spells good will for OPA, instead of this negative approach? To
take the same tone as the script, if this depends on my O. K. "It ain't got it
nohow."'
Mr. Adamson. What did the OPA and the OWI employees tell
you with regard to the transmission of Mr. Weiner's scripts to them
for approval, with regard to the time element?
Mr. McDavitt. They have had, ever since Mr. Weiner has been
associated with the Office of Price Administration, continual diffi-
culty with him in getting his script to OWI and to OPA for clearance.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 79
Two days is considered a proper time, due to the fact that after they
receive the script they must refer it to such men as Mr. Van Brunt,
to see if the script is authoritative, to see if it is telhng the truth, or
if it is distorting the facts, and if it is in hne with the specific pro-
gram. Instead of that, Mr. Weiner's scripts have been arriving the
day of the broadcast, and in one instance the day after the broadcast,
and in another instance the OWI script clearance offices had to call
the day of the broadcast for the script, and at that particular time
Mr. Weiner stated that he had forgotten to send the script.
In April of this year the situation became so serious that Miss
Daubinspeck, of OPA, practically refused to have any further con-
versation wirh Mr. Weiner, and they arranged to have the clearance
then done through the OWI with Miss Turner. Miss Turner did
business with Mr. Weiner for 7 weeks and reached the same point
that Miss Daubinspeck had, she no longer desired to talk with Mr.
Weiner, because he was a person that no one could talk or reason with.
During the period that Miss Turner was receiving script, she also
received script the day after the program. She had to call for the
script on the day of one program, and she never in her period of
history with Mr. Weiner received a script previous to the day of the
broadcast, which makes it almost impossible for them to clear the
script properly so that it can go over the air at 6:15 at night.
Mr. Adamson. Now, I suppose you spent a good many hours
reading and listening to these scripts?
Mr. McDavitt. Considerable time.
Mr. Thomas. May I ask a question there? I understand you are
not just referring to the script of the broadcast Soldiers With Cou-
pons? You are also referring to all the scripts?
Mr. McDavitt. I am referring to Soldiers With Coupons, which
has been the production and w^ritings of Mr. Weiner from the beginning.
Mr. Thomas. They have always been practically the same thing
as Soldiers With Coupons?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes. Since May of last year they do have a pro-
gram Hasten the Day, which has been broadcast through OWI and
which OPA, I think, took over last September, which will run through
August of this year. That program speciahzes in the feature The
Tucker Family. There has been no criticism of it, and it has been
perfectly acceptable to everyone.
Mr. Adamson. But Mr. Weiner did not write that one?
Mr. McDavitt. No, sir.
Mr. Thomas. Who did?
Mr. McDavitt. Mrs. Gilsdorf, I believe, of Darien, Conn.
Mr. Adamson. Is it true that on the scripts that do arrive in time^
or did arrive in time
Mr. McDavitt (interposing). There were none that arrived in
time.
Mr. Adamson. Well, on the ones that they got in time to make
editorial comments and mail them back to Mr. Weiner before the show
went on, when you listened to the mechanical transcript of the pro-
gram did you find that Mr. Weiner had observed the editorial instruc-
tions of the Washington office?
Mr. McDavitt. Very often it appeared to have been ignored.
Mr. Adamson. He went right ahead and ran the play as he orig-
inally had written it?
80 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. McDavitt. Yes.
Mr. Rankin. And nothing was done about it?
Mr. McDavitt. The employees of the planning program and
publicity department have protested about the program from time
to time, practically ever since its inception, had protested about it
frequently, but apparently nothing was done about it, except I think
that in February Mr. Woolley took exception to the deletions and
criticized the national office for their criticism of the Soldiers With
Coupons program.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt, in order to save time, could you
summarize Mr. Weiner's whole policy in his script by saying that his
attitude is one of seeking to create prejudice and hate?
Mr. Robinson. I would like to have an example of that.
Mr. Adamson. We will give you examples, Mr. Robinson.
Mr. Robinson. I want to make that criticism myself. I don't
want someone to make it for me.
Mr. Adamson. We can go through it the long way, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Rankin. As I understand it, you are attempting to show that
this man's broadcasts were subversive and that he changed the broad-
casts from the script submitted to the head office here in Washington.
Mr. Adamson. The ones that he did submit, Mr. Chairman, got
here in time. In each case they were censored by the office here and
he refused to recognize the censorship. He ran the objectionable
material just the same.
Mr. Rankin. It is contended that that objectionable material is
subversive?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. For example, the witness will point out
to you here — I will try to have him take a typical example, so as to
save time — that Mr. Weiner's whole effort seems to be directed
against classes of citizens and not against violators of OPA regu-
lations.
Mr. Thomas. So far as that is concerned, we have got lots of time.
Mr. Rankin. I am not trying to rush counsel. I was merely
trying to get before the committee just what we are attempting to
establish here.
Mr. Adamson. That is what we are driving at, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. McDavitt, you have a script there that Mr. Potter made some
mention of in the last hearing, regarding rents. Will you tell us, for
example, what passage typifies Mr. Weiner's attitude, and also tell
us whether or not the Washington office ordered that deleted, and
then tell us whether or not Mr. Weiner ran it just as he had written
it in the first place?
Mr. McDavitt. February 12, 1945, quotation:
Script: As often is the case, tenants do not have high powered lawyers to advise
them, but they do have the OPA, which is their bulwark against violations.
This was criticized, due to the fact that the censor was of the
opinion that it was not necessarily the truth, that it reflected upon
honest people, and gave the impression that OPA had been created
for poor people, instead of created to fight inflation.
Mr. Adamson. Now, go along to that statement about the land-
lords.
Mr. Rankin. On that point, did he observe the direction of the
head office to delete that from his script?
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 81
Mr. McDavitt. There were two broadcasts on this, I beheve, about
30 days or 45 days apart. In the original broadcast it was included.
He used the script again at a later date, setting it forth as a new
broadcast.
Mr. Adamson. And once he deleted it and once he ran it?
Mr. McDavitt. I didn't hear the second record.
Mr. Robinson. What was the deletion?
Mr. McDavitt (reading).
As often is the case, tenants do not have high powered lawyers to advise them,
but they do have the OPA, which is their bulwark against violations.
Mr. Robinson. That is the way it was written?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Robinson. And what was deleted?
Mr. McDavitt. It was not deleted.
Mr. Rankin. The head office ordered it deleted?
Mr. McDavitt. They criticized it.
Mr. Robinson. They criticized it?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Rankin. Did they order it deleted?
Mr. Adamson. They took a pencil and marked around it.
Mr. Robinson. Did the office order that deleted, or what part of it?
Mr. McDavitt. The entire thing.
Mr. Robinson. They ordered the whole thing deleted?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right. But you see, they don't order a
deletion; they just strike it out as not approved, and therefore it is
not supposed to be used. There is no order that accompanies this
at all. In other words, when it is stricken out, when it is criticized,
it is not supposed to be used.
Mr. Adamson. Now, go down and read to the committee one of
the statements about one of the expressions about landlords.
Mr. McDavitt. I will have to look it up to find it.
]Mr. Adamson. I believe that in that same text you are referring
to there is a paragraph that was also censored, which indicts the
landlord as a chiseler and a cheat. Is that correct?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Robinson. Let us have the language.
Mr. Adamson. Well, here is another one, Mr. McDavitt, in the same
broadcast, the same script. There is a paragraph at the end of that
script which I would like for you to read to the committee and tell the
committee what happened to that one when it was transcribed — "The
overwhelming majority of landlords."
Mr. McDavitt (reading):
The overwhelming majority of landlords are patriotically cooperating with the
OPA, and the few that try to evade the law make it harder for the landlords who
play square with his tenants.
That was included in the paragraph which Mr. Woolley was to give
at the conclusion of the program. However, that was in the original
script which was returned to New York. It was deleted and not given
out over the air and was not in the transcription. However, at the end
af the program the announcer did give the name of the author, the
name of the producer, and the name of each and every character in the
program.
82 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. So that one of the paragraphs that was approved,
which you have just read here, was deleted from the program when it
went out over the air?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. But he did include the paragraphs that were critical
and detrimental to all landlords?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Robinson. What does it say? You say "critical to landlords."
Read it.
Mr. Adamson. If you can find that paragraph I want you to read it.
Mr. McDavitt. On page 14 of the same script, the character is
Harry and runs like this:
Harry: He is kidding. Listen, Tony, he can't increase the rent. There has
been a rent freeze. No one can be put out if he pays his rent. That's OPA law.
This was censored, due to the fact, that under certain conditions
the landlord may increase the rent, and again under certain conditions
other than the prompt payment of rent, a person may be put out of
the premises. This paragraph tended to give the wrong impression.
Mr. Robinson. Was it deleted?
Mr. McDavitt. I heard it.
Mr. Adamson. It was not deleted.
Mr. Robinson. Is there anything subversive about that?
Mr. Thomas. You object to somebody drawing the conclusion?
Mr. Robinson. I will withdraw the question.
Mr. McDavitt. The only thing is
Mr. Rankin (interposing). What we are going to investigate is
un-American activities, and that is what I am waiting for him to
develop.
Mr. Robinson. Go ahead.
Mr. Rankin. What I am interested in is whether or not this indi-
vidual, or any individual, under investigation, is guilty of un-American
activities.
Mr. Robinson. I am both landlord and tenant, and I believe I
can say the same thing that is said there and feel all right about it.
Mr. Adamson. Do you have photostats there of some of the
transcripts that were censored?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. I would like to show to the committee the photostat
of the form in which these scripts were sent back to New York. Mr.
Robinson has brought up the point that he thinks there should be an
order censoring them. Well, we don't know whether they ever issued
any order, but that is how the stuff looked after they finished with it.
[Indicating.]
Mr. Rankin. And the records show how they performed.
Mr. McDavitt. On page 11 is a transcription which was given to'
us as it had been broadcast and mailed to us.
Mr. Adamson. What is the date?
Mr. McDavitt. It is dated May 15, 1925:
Sure thing, Joe. OPA was set up for little guys like you and me.
This was criticized, due to the fact that OPA was not set up fof
little guys but was set up with the objective of inflationary control.
Mr. Adamson. On the point of the general policy of this man
Weiner, Mr. McDavitt, did you find that for quite a long time in his
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 83
scrips he made his opening statement to the effect that the OPA was
set up to fight fascism?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And did the OPA employees here in Washington
ask him to change that to "inflation"?
Mr. McDavitt. That had been a source of difficulty for some
months.
Mr. Adamson. Did they ask him to change that to "inflation"?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Did he change it?
Mr. McDavitt. Not until a few w^eeks ago, when Miss Turner of
OWI insisted that it had to be changed, after 3 months of squabbling.
Mr. Adamson. I offer these photostats, four in number, as exhibits
for the record.
(The four photostats of a script on rent control were marked
"Exhibit 14.")
k Exhibit 14
WooLLEY. * * * rent control came into effect. This step was taken by
OPA to stabilize rents * * * to prevent inflation. * * * Yot the spiral
of inflation was beginning to skyrocket in many defense-rental areas. It also
became necessary to protect the occupancy of tenants * * * to safeguard
their health and prevent indiscriminate evictions. Rent control has worked and
the OPA has held the line on rents.
A great many landlords patriotically complied with all the OPA rent regula-
tions. However, many tenants soon found themselves harassed by petty viola-
tions, threatened with illegal evictions and grafts by superintendents and land-
lords' agents. As often is the case * * * tenants do not have high-powered
lawyers to advise them * * * but they do have the OPA * * * which
is their bulwark against violations. To bring home what this means * * *
let's take one of the cases in the files of the OPA * * * showing a typical
American famil.y and its rent problems. I'd like to tell you about the Genaro
family. As our story opens (FADE) the Genaro family are saying goodbye to
their friends. * * *
Tony. Hey, Harry!
Harry'. (Off mike:) Hyah Tonj'. Come on over. Hello Peg, all set for those
-wedding bells?
Peggy. All set.
Harry. What gives, Tony? What are you doing around here now? Sit down.
iSit down.
Tony. Just came in to see if you could answer some questions.
Harry. Shoot.
Tony. How good is rent control under the OPA?
Harry. I'd say very good, Tony.
Tony. I see. . Here's the picture, the landlord asked for an increase of $5 and
threatens to put them out if . . .
Harry. (Laughs.) Is he kidding. Listen, Tony, number 1 — he can't increase
the rent. There's been a rent freeze. Number 2 — No one can be put out if he
pays his rent. That's OPA law.
Tony. I see. Then how does the landlord get his nerve to pull a thing like that?
Mama. Huh, More, Right now I'm paying $47.50 a month.
Irving. That's $5.50 more a month than your Mr. Bolton is legally entitled to.
Tony. And he wanted a $5 increase. What can we do about it?
I Irving. The OPA will see to it that your rent is reduced at once. You'll
receive a refund or — if you wish — you can sue Bolton for treble damages.
Mama. Treble damages.
Irving. Yes, three times the amount of the overcharge. Which in this case is
considerable. And I might add, if you don't sue, the OPA will.
Tony. We'll sue — don't worry about that.
(Music: Up and out.)
: (Ad libs — laughter.)
' "Tony. And you should have seen Bolton's face as he handed Mom the money.
: Mama. $140.
' Peggy. And the lecture Tony gave him.
84 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
WooLLEY. Well, the Genaro family, with the aid of Tony, got their $140
back and they now pay the legal rent. The Genaro's were able to solve their
problem by going to their OPA area rent office and an unscrupulous landlord
was dealt with by the OPA.
OPA has adopted a strong policy of instituting treble damage actions in rent
overcharges as a means of preventing the slow and systematic draining of small
amounts from the pockets of tenants. The reason for this is . . . rent is the
second largest item on every family's budget. The OPA recognized this . . .
and it became necessary to stabilize rents to prevent living costs from rising
higher and higher in wartime.
Today, many of you are confronted with similar problems and many more
that haven't been mentioned on this broadcast. You have a remedy . . .
write or go to your area rent office.
The overwhelming majority of landlords are patriotically cooperating with
the OPA and the few that try to evade the law make it harder for the landlords
who play square with their tenants.
To date, only a small fraction of the registered dwelling units have had com-
plaints filed against them.
Mr. McDavitt. On page 8 of the same script we have the character
Sam and the quotation on "How'd-ya like that?" He is referring to
the landlord.
You won't paint. You won't fix nothing. You chisel on the heat, and now
you want to raise the rent.
This was objected to, due to the fact that many landlords today
are not in a position to get the fuel necessary, due to the shortages
which everybody is aware of; and secondly, in respect, to paint, it is
very difficult to get a man to do painting today.
Mr. Adamson. Now, he had scripts on various subjects. That
was on rents. He had many scripts on clothing, food, and various
items?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes.
Mr. Adamson. And in your analysis of them do you find that each
and every one contained material which was objectionable upon the
same general grounds you have outlined?
Mr. Robinson. I object again. May we have the script?
Mr. Adamson. We can go through all of them if you want to, Mr,
Chairman, but we will be here for 2 or 3 days if we do.
Mr. Robinson. There is no use just giving me your conclusions and
this man's conclusions.
Mr. McDavitt. These are photostat copies attached to the script.
They are not my conclusions.
Mr. Robinson. But I looked over that other script and I can't see
anything wrong with it. What is there wrong with this?
Mr. Adamson. What is this photostat here, Mr. McDavitt?
Mr. McDavitt. That is a photostat sent to the script clearance
office, signed by Mr. McCloskey, who is in the department of program
planning and liaison department between the clothing department and
the publicity department, in respect to a program put on May 22,
1945.
Mr. Adamson. Will you read it?
Mr. McDavitt (reading):
This is one of the best ways to build up for a damn big run I've yet seen. It
does not make the point that there are reasons for the shortage. It does not make
the point that there is enough to go around if we restrain buying. It does not
make any plea for restraint or conservation. It does intimate that OPA has let
prices go clear up to heaven. I'd vote to tell them nuts on the whole thing.
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 85
Mr. Robinson. That is the criticism that they make on his script?
Mr. McDavitt. That is the criticism of the executive or haison
officers on the script appUed to the national office for clearance.
Mr. Robinson. Apparently he didn't think much of the script, but
where is the subvei-sive part of the script?
Mr. McDavitt. You want an answer to that, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Rankin. Yes. "What we are trying to find out is whether or
not this man has done anj^thing that is subversive.
Mr. Adamson. I have cautioned the witness not to express opinions,
and if he wants his opinion, though, I liave no objection.
Mr. Rankin. He can answer the question of the gentleman from
Utah.
Mr. McDavitt. An investigation of communistic propaganda at
tlie present time necessitates going back to the history of NKVD.
Mr. Robinson. What I want to know is just what that script says
that is subversive. You say he said things tlieie that are subversive.
Mr. McDavitt. I will show you the objective of the communistic
propaganda and how it fits into such broadcasts as this.
Mr. Robinson. I am not interested in that. I am interested in
these scripts, so far as I am concerned. That was my question. Of
course, I am only one member of the committee.
Mr. Rankin. I am interested in whether or not this w^hole testi-
mony leads to anything that is subversive or un-American, or designed
to overthrow this Government or change its form in violation of law
and now if this is leading up to that, that is what w^e uant to get, and
we would like to get it too, as quickly as possible. If this material
that you are furnishing, Mr. Mc]I)avitt, lea els up to that, of course the
Chair will bear with you, and I am sure the rest of the comxinittee will.
Mr. McDavitt. I might say this, that the people who today are
disseminating the propaganda of a Communistic nature no longer
can be identified as the propagandists of 10 or 15 years ago. They are
approaching the subject today on a highly cultural basis. The reason
they are doing this is because they found it has been more profitable
to do it this way than to be the obtuse person who is going to jail and
causing a great deal of difficulty. I have informants who have been
employed and are employed by the NKVD, which is the educational
school established in AIoscow, to instruct people to go about in the
world and bring about dissension and ridicule upon general industry or
general types of people, general classes of people.
The subversive activities of this particular script lie in the fact that
it tends to generally indict the landlord, generally indict industry, as
a violator of law, and in that way it makes the person on the street
antagonistic towards these various individuals, such as capitalists,
industry, and such as a man who owns a piece of property. There has
never been one of the scripts that has come to the defense of the citizens
of the United States, of the landlords, of the industrialists, of the
capitalists, who have abided by the law or who have tried to live
within the regulations, despite how harmful it might be to liim as an
individual, or how much it might have cost him, so we cannot expect
to find here that the man is going to come in and say "I am employed
by the Communist Government and I am disseminating Communist
propaganda.'' It is only the line that he is using and his instructions
from NKVD, and the Moscow source of eduction, of which I have been
well informed.
86 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Rankin. This is part of the technique of spreading propaganda.
Is that your position?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt, let us look at one of the comments
of the OPA office here. Look on page 2 of your memorandum and
tell me if it is not true that they made the comment that you have
just expressed here, "Aren't there any honest dealers?"
Mr. McDavitt. That refers to the script on Monday, April 9,
1945, which was broadcast between 10 and 10:15 p. m., record No. 32.
Subject: Prior Rationing.
Paragraph 5 of this script is as follows:
Tony. I go in Allen's gas station. Sure, he will sell me a tire, 10 bucks more
than the ceiling price. The White garage same thing, too. And then Benton's.
He'll sell me tires without OPA certificates, but at a price, I ask you.
Miss Elizabeth Barker, censor for the legal department, stated this
should be struck out, and attached this note: "Aren't there any honest
dealers? How about just letting them be out of tires, instead of
violating the law?"
Mr. Adamson. In other words, the office here, Mr. Chairman, has
seen this point all along and has protested against it. We are not
condemning the OPA headquarters here. They have been trying to
struggle against it.
Mr. Robinson. In other words, these people have been doing a
good job?
Mr. Adamson. Mr. Woolley said he couldn't fire them.
Mr. Robinson. Because Washington objects?
Mr. Adamson. They said they couldn't fire them. You remember
Mr. Bowles' testimony. In fact, it seems nobody can fire them.
The Chairman. You think it would take an act of Congress to
remove them.
Mr. Adamson. Apparently so.
Mr. Thomas. And that would be appealed to the Supreme Court.
Mr. Mundt. If you tried to fire them.
Mr. McDavitt. Do vou want the War Production Board criti-
cism?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, tell us what that memorandum states.
Mr. McDavitt. This is attaclied to the clothing script and is a
memorandum for the War Production Board:
WPB doesn't think script does just job of explaining clothing program. Doesn't
think it serves very good purpose.
This particular script, with minor changes, was broadcast February 12. It is
essentially a repeat.
Then there are specific WPB comments noted on pages 6, 7, and 13.
Mr. Adamson. That is the program that Mr. Woolley referred to
when he said that while the program was first a little late for broad-
cast, it was repeated subsequently?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. And this memoranda refers to the second broadcast?
Mr. McDavitt. The second repeat script.
Mr. Adamson. And it still condemns the script?
Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. Chairman, we can go through these
things for hours here and they will all be about the same level. If you
INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 87
wish US to go ahead, we can. We can also obtain the mechanical
equipment and play the script for you.
Mr. Thomas. Have you got the records of those broadcasts?
Mr. Adamson. The OPA office has them all, and has offered them
to us. We intended to play them several days ago, but due to
mechanical difficulties, OPA could not play them.
Mr. Rankin. As one member of the committee I should like to hear
them. I understand that the Communist Party, which broke up last
summer like a joint snake, has now gone back together. There prob-
ably will be a realinement, and I am wondering if it is your contention
that this is a propaganda line of the old Communist Party.
Mr. Adamson. Absolutely.
Mr. Rankin. And it was the Communist Party that was originally
dedicated to overthrow this Government.
Mr. Adamson. There is no mistake about that.
Mr. Rankin. The overthrow of what they call the capitalistic
economic system. That is the system of the ownership of private
property. Is that what you contend that this all is?
\h\ McDavitt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Rankin. This is all driving to that end?
Mr. McDavitt. That is right.
Mr. Adamson. Now, if we could agree on a day when several
members of the committee could attend, we can arrange to have
some of these records, or all of them, played for you. Wliat day
would you suggest, Mr. Chairman? I will make all the arrange-
ments. We got all ready once and then the machinery failed.
The Chairman. Any time will be convenient to me, but I am
chairman of a very important committee that is going to meet in
executive session tomorrow on a very important bill.
Mr. Adamson. How would Saturday do?
Mr. Rankin. Saturday morning would suit me all right. If that
is all right with you gentlemen, we will meet at 10 o'clock Saturday
morning. We will make arrangements for a committee meeting
room.
Mr. Adamson. I think we can play them right up in our own
committee room. They have a portable machine, if it works; if it
doesn't work, we can go up to the radio room here. I will notify each
member of the committee where you want to convene on Saturday
morning at 10 o'clock.
Mr. Rankin. Are you through for this morning?
Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thomas. We want the records that refer to communism.
There was a record broadcast about 3 months ago. Be sure you
bring that up.
Mr. Adamson. We will bring that one. I think it will be better
for you to listen to them and compare some of the scripts yourselves
to see just what they are.
Mr. Rankin. I want you to be able to identify them.
Mr. Adamson. We have them all.
Mr. McDavitt. There may be some difficulty in identification,
because some of the records that were sent in here are not necessarily
identified. We may have to play them to find out which one tliey
refer to.
88 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA
Mr. Adamson. Maybe you had better go down and see Mr. Potter's
office and mark some of them so we will have no trouble about
identifying them.
Mr. Robinson. We don't want to be all the week with these
records. Pick out the ones that you think are the worst.
Mr. Adamson. There are about half a dozen of them.
Mr. Robinson. Let us have the ones that in your opinion are
communistic and subversive and un-American — especially the ones
about Congress.
Mr. Rankin. If there is no further testimony, the committee will
stand adjourned until Saturday morning at 10 o'clock a. m.
Mr. Adamson. And the place will be selected as soon as I can
arrange it.
Mr. Rankin. Very well.
(Whereupon, at 11:20 a. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m.,
Saturday, June 30, 1945.)
X
p u s L I e s
BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY
Illiillliliilliiil
3 9999 05445 2428
Live Music Archive
Librivox Free Audio
Metropolitan Museum
Cleveland Museum of Art
Internet Arcade
Console Living Room
Books to Borrow
Open Library
TV News
Understanding 9/11