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Full text of "Investigation of un-American propaganda activities in the United States (Office of price administration) Hearings before the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Seventy-ninth Congress, first session, on H. Res. 5, to investigate (1) the extent, character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities of the United States; (2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution; and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary remedial leiglation. June 20, 21, 27, 1945, at Washington, D.C"

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INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN 
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN THE 
1 4 UNITED STATES 

(Office of Price Administration) 

HEARINGS ' 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN- AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIYES 

SEVENTY-NINTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
ON 

H. Res. 5 

TO INVESTIGATE (1) THE EXTENT, CHARACTER, AND 
OBJECTS OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES IN 
THE UNITED STATES; (2) THE DIFFUSION WITHIN THE 
UNITED STATES OF SUBVERSIVE AND UN-AMERICAN PROP- 
AGANDA THAT IS INSTIGATED FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES 
OR OF A DOMESTIC ORIGIN AND ATTACKS THE PRINCIPLE 
OF THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT AS GUARANTEED BY 
OUR CONSTITUTION; AND (3) ALL OTHER QUESTIONS IN 
RELATION THERETO THAT WOULD AID CONGRESS IN ANY 
NECESSARY REMEDIAL LEGISLATION 



JUNE 20, 21, 27, 1945, AT WASHINGTON, D. C. 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 







UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
83079 WASHINGTON : 1946 









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COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 
JOHN E. RANKIN, Mississippi J. PARNELL THOMAS, New Jersey 

J. HARDIN PETERSON, Florida KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota 

J. W. ROBINSON, Utah GERALD W. LANDIS. Indiana 

JOHN R. MURDOCK, Arizona 
HERBERT C. BONNER, North Carolina 

Ernie Adamson, Cbtinsel 
John W Carrington, Clerk 
II 



CONTENTS 



Statement of — Page 

Chester Bowles 2 

D. B. Stetler 14 

Zenas L. Potter 33, 59 

Daniel R. WooUey ^ 45 

George V. McDavitt 67 

EXHIBITS 
Ko. 

1. Letter, November 23, J944, Elmer Davis to Chester Bowles 9 

2. Letter, December 4, 1944, Chester Bowles to Elmer Davis 10 

3. Memo, December 2, 1944, Jack O'Brien to James Rogers 10 

4. Letter, December 1, 1944, Tex Weiner to Jack O'Brien 10 

5. Contract, J. Walter Thompson Co. & WOR (Stand. Brands) 15 

6. Contract, J. Walter Thompson Co. & Bamberger 18 

7. Pa V roll. May 1, 1945, Soldiers With Coupons 22,23 

8. Pav roll, May 8, 1945, Soldiers With Coupons 23 

9. Letter, April 12, 1945, Weiner to Stetler . 24 

10. Letter, April 5, 1945. Statler to Weiner 25 

11. Letter, April 3, 1945, Weiner to Stetler . 25 

12. Correspondence to be furnished by Zenas L. Potter 39 

13. Announcement of examination for position of program director 68 

14. Script on rent control 83 

List of radio stations 38 

in 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIV- 
ITIES IN THE UNITED STATES 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 1945 

House of Representatives, 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Edward J. Hart (chairman) 
presiding. Mr. Ernie Adamson, committee counsel. 

The Chairman. Gentlemen, are we ready to proceed? 

Mr. Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we go into executive 
session. I think we should discuss some matters before we proceed. 
I was hoping there would be more members of the committee here. I 
move that we go into executive session. 

The Chairman. You move that we proceed in executive session. 
Is there a second? 

Mr. MuRDOCK. I second the motion. 

Mr. Thomas. On what question? 

The Chairman, It is moved and seconded that the committee pro- 
ceed in executive session. 

Mr. Thomas. Wait a minute. We can discuss the motion. What 
is the question? 

Mr. Robinson. The question is whether we should continue the 
hearings this morning or not. 

Mr. Thomas. We have discussed that time after time. I don't see 
any reason why we should go into executive session, particularly in 
view of the fact that everything is all set to go ahead. I am opposed 
to it. 

The Chairman. Is there any further discussion? 

Mr. Murdock. Mr. Chairman, what is the legislation for today? 
Are you acquainted with it? '!<» 

The Chairman. I understand that the OPA bill comes up today. ^ 

Mr. AIuRDocK. Will our hearings this morning have any effect on 
that legislation? 

The Chairman. That is a difficult question to answer. 

Mr. Robinson. I think that is the very question we should discuss 
and decide. I think it is unfortunate that we should be starting 
hearings today and take the organization away from that matter. 

Mr. Thomas. We were scheduled to start hearings a week ago, on 
the 13th. • 

Mr. Robinson. But this bill was not scheduled to come up then. 

The Chairman. Is there any further discussion on the motion? 

Mr. Thomas. Well, if you want to whitewash the whole thing, that 
is up to you. 

The Chairman. All those in favor of the motion will say "Aye"; 
those opposed, "No." 

(The motion was put and carried.) 



2 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

The motion is carried. The committee will proceed in executive 
session. 

(Whereupon, at 10:05 a. m., the committee went into executive 
session. At 10:15 a. m. the committee resumed the hearing in open 
session.) 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. You may pro- 
ceed, Mr. Adamson. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, at 
this hearing I wish to raise before the committee some evidence in 
connection with numerous complaints we have received against the 
script radio broadcast of the New York region of the OPA. We are 
informed that these scripts are prepared by a man named Tex Weiner. 

Mr. Chairman, I understand that Mr. Bowles wishes to get away to 
another committee meeting, and, therefore, I want to put him on first 
and let him go. 

The Chairman. Very well. 

(Whereupon the witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) 

TESTIMONY OF CHESTER BOWLES, ADMINISTRATOR, OFFICE. OF 

PRICE. ADMINISTRATION 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Bowles, will you give your full name and official 
title for the record? 

Mr. Bowles. Mr. Chester Bowles, Price Administrator, Office of 
Price Administration. 

Mr. Adamson. And can you tell us briefly the organization with 
regard to your office and the regional office in New York? As I under- 
stand it, the country is divided into regions. 

Mr. Bowles. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us what supervision and control your 
office here in Washington exercises over the regional office in New 
York? 

Mr. Bowles. We have nine regional offices, of which New York is 
one, and under those regional offices are the various district offices. 
There are 93 of those. We appoint here in Washington the nine 
regional administrators. The regional administrator then appoints 
his own staff and the district directors under him. The district direc- 
tors then appoint their own staff. 

The supervision from this Office — first of all, we have delegated as 
much as we can — we have gone a long way in the last 2 years in 
delegation. An indication of that is that we have about 800 fewer 
people in our Washington Office today than we had 2 years ago, when 
the Office of Price Administration was organized. 

The regional heads are responsible for operations in their region. 
The policies are set down in Washington and then handed on down 
to the regional staffs, the district directors, to carry out, and we 
naturally keep a general lookout to see that they are carried out, and 
in general I feel that they are carried out well. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you have the final authority to employ and also 
to discharge employees, even in the regional offices? 

Mr. Bowles. No; that is up to the regional administrator. We 
appoint the regional administrator and he appoints his own staff. 
On major personnel he will check that personnel with us. If there is 
any case, however, on which we may disagree, it is entirely up to him 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 3 

to appoint liis own staff. I believe that when a man is put in charge 
of a region or department or district he should have full authority 
over his own operations and his own personnel. 

Mr. Adamson. Briefly stated then, you don't feel that you have 
authority to step in and either employ or discharge a particular man 
in a region office or staff of that regional director? 

Mr. Bowles. Naturally, that is true; no. But naturally, if we 
have felt anything was going wrong or was being handled badly, we 
would call it to the attention of the regional administrator and hold 
him responsible for making it right. I would like to add that I am 
very confident of the regional administrator for New York. 

Mr. Adamson. Have you a man here, an assistant in your Office 
this morning, who will stay in the hearing in case we need him? 

Mr. Bowles. Yes, Mr. Potter, who is assistant to me. 

Mr. Adamson. What is his full name? 

Mr. Bowles. Zenas L. Potter. 

Mr. Adamson. Wliat is his official title? 

Mr. Bowles. He is head of our congressional relations group, 
which works with Congress on many problems. He represents pretty 
well the whole operation of OPA in that job. 

Mr. Adamson. May I ask you if you are acquainted with the man 
involved here in this matter more directly, that is, Tex Weiner? 

Mr. Bowles. No; I haven't met him. I don't know him. 

Mr. Rankin. What is the answer? 

Mr. Bowles. I don't know him. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you know of your own knowledge whether he 
was ever employed by your firm, Benton & Bowles? 

Mr. Bowles. I never heard of it. I am quite certain he was not — 
or it is possible he might have been. As a matter of fact, that wUl 
be easy to check up. I never heard of him until I heard of him here. 

Mr. Adamson. You have a large number of employees? 

Mr. Bowles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And you don't know each one of them personally? 

Mr. Bowles. No; I do not. If he had any major position there 
while I was there — I haven't been there for 4 years — I wouldn't know 
about it. 

Mr. Adamson. You don't think he had a major position, Mr. 
Bowles? 

Mr. Bowles. I never heard his name until I heard it in connection 
with this case. 

Mr. Thomas. Let's get that cleared up. Does counsel want the 
record to show that he was employed? 

Mr. Adamson. We will show later on that he used to work for 
Benton & Bowles, but since Mr. Bowles doesn't know him, doesn't 
know anything about him, I don't know what I could ask him about 
him. 

Mr. Rankin. What business is this firm of Benton & Bowles in? 

Mr. Bowles. Advertising, marketing advertising. 

Mr. Rankin,. Where are they located? 

Mr. Bowles. In New York, 

Mr. Adamson. You also have an office in California, haven't you, 
Mr. Bowles? 

Mr. Bowles. I believe they have. I am not sure. They used to. 
I haven't been there in 4 years. I am completely out of touch with it. 



4 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. That is in Hollywood, I believe? 

Mr. Bowles. Used to have one there. 

Mr. Adamson. If I told you that I checked the advertising direc- 
tory yesterday and it showed that you had an office in Hollywood at 
least the first of this year, you would say that was correct, wouldn't 
you? 

Mr. Bowles. I assume they still have one there, and it certainly 
would be correct. 

Mr. Adamson. And if I told you that the directory also showed 
you as vice chairman of the board of this advertising agency, would 
that be correct? 

Mr. Bowles. That is correct. I have since asked them to take 
my name off. 

Mr. Adamson. How recently did that happen? 

Mr. Bowles. Within the last week or so. I don't think I have 
been in there twice since I have been working for the Government 
the last 4 years. 

Mr. Adamson. I am not questioning that fact, Mr. Bowles. I 
merely want to clear up the things that appear of record. You are 
known in the advertising agencies, and you say that up until last 
week your name did appear as vice chairman of the board of this 
advertising agency. That is quite a large advertising agency, isn't 
it, Mr. Bowles? 

Mr. Bowles. It is. 

Mr. Adamson. They have done pretty well, haven't they, in 
business? 

Mr. Bowles. They have done better since I left. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Rankin. Are you still connected with it, Mr. Bowles? 

Mr. Adamson. He says he quit last week. 

Mr. Bowles. I have had no operating connection with it for the 
last several years. 

Mr. Rankin. With the firm of Benton <fe Bowles? 

Mr. Bowles. I have had no operating connection with it. 

Mr. Rankin. You are out of the firm now? 

Mr. Bowles. I am busy selling my stock and getting out of it just 
as fast as I can. 

Mr. Adamson. And effective last week you notified them to take 
your name off of the register? 

Mr. Bowles. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Are you acquainted with the advertising firm of 
J. Walton Thompson? 

Mr. Bowles. A very fine firm. 

Mr. Adamson. And I suppose you know they represent Standard 
Brands? Is that correct? 

Mr. Bowles. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. What contract or contracts, do you know, do Benton 
& Bowles hold with Standard Brands? 

Mr. Bowles. I don't know of any. 

Mr. Adamson. If you don't know, just say so. 

Mr. Bowles. I don't know of any. I don't think they do. I don't 
know of any. 

Mr. Adamson. But you have not had close contact with the business 
recently? 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 5 

Mr. Bowles. Not for 4 years. To be more exact, December 1941, 
right after Pearl Harbor, when I went to work as a volunteer for the 
Govermncnt. 

Mr. Rankin. What is Standard Brands? 

Mr. Bowles. They make various food products, Fleischmann's 
yeast and several other products, Chase & Sanborn's coffee. I don't 
know all the others. 

Mr. Adamson. In conclusion, Mr. Bowles, I would like to say to 
you that your office has been very cooperative in Washington and 
has permitted our investigators to see the files, and they have told 
them, I think, all the facts they knew. Unless the members of the 
committee have further questions, that is all I have. 

Mr. MuNDT. I would like to ask a question, Mr. Chairman. You 
stated that your office had no authority to remove some employee 
from a regional office? That is the fact, is it? 

Mr. Bowles. Yes. What I said, Mr. Congressman, when I came 
in here — I formerly worked in charge of the district office, the State 
office. I started out as a volunteer and volunteered my services. I 
tried to get into the Navy and they would not accept me, so I went 
into this as a war job, and I was impressed when I was out there with 
the fact that lots of times responsibility lay with the district office 
and the regional office, but the responsibility or the authority for 
every move made was right in Washington, and when I came down 
here I felt that to go with that responsibility should be considerable 
more authority, particularly over tljeir personnel. I don't think you 
can ask a man to run an office and then appoint all of his staff for 
him. I think the staff ought to feel responsibility to the head of the 
office. That is just good businesslike procedure, and we have done 
that. Obviously, if an office were badly managed, handled badly, or 
it was evident that authority over people was misused, we naturally 
step in. That would be our obligation to correct that. 

]\Ir. Mundt. But in theory you may step in and remove the re- 
gional administrator? 

Mr. Bowles. That is right. I think that is the way a business 
should operate. 

Mr. MoTT. I agree with you. Just one other question. You 
stated you did not think that your firm had any advertising contracts 
with Standard Brands. You would not have any reason to know 
whether they had a contract or not iu the past 4 years, would you? 

Mr. Bowles. I would almost say 99.9 percent, I know they have 
not, but there is a gentleman here from Standard Brands who I 
think could answer that. I am very sure they have not. 

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Bowles, you have had no desire to retain on the 
Federal pay roll anyone who was subversive or engaged in subversive 
activities, have you? 

Mr. Bowles. Of course not, under no circumstances. 

Mr. Rankin. And if you found such person on the pay roll, if the 
testimony before this committee revealed that there was such a 
person on the pay roll of your organization, you would see that they 
were removed? 

Mr. Bowles. I am sure that Mr. Wooley, regional administrator 
in New York would be the first to say that. 

Mr. Rankin. If he did not, you would be the first to do it? 

83079 — 46 2 



6 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Bowles. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Adamson. After Mr. Wooley has had time and opportunity to 
dig deeper into this matter? 

Mr. Bowles. I know very Httle about it. As you might guess, I 
have been a httle busy for the past 2 weeks. 

Mr. Adamson. Yes. I am not condemning you for not knowing. 
I just asked you if you had 

Mr. Bowles (interposing). I would just like to add, though, that I 
have full confidence in the people that do know. 

Mr. Adamson. And if Mr. Wooley thinks that this man is all right 
and is conducting himself properly up there, it is your disposition to 
support Mr. Wooley's decision, not overrule him? 

Mr, Bowles. It would be; yes. 

Mr. Adamson. Regardless of what contentions were made here 
concerning him? 

Mr. Bowles. I think both Mr. Wooley and I would both take that 
very deeply into consideration, naturally, and any facts that were 
produced to the contrary, we would act on them. 

Mr. Adamson. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? 

Mr. Rankin. But if you found that your confidence had been be- 
trayed, you would step in and act? 

Mr. Bowles. Certainly. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Bowles, has tliis matter been called to your 
attention in the last 2 weeks by Mr. Wooley? 

Mr. Bowles. Not by Mr. Wooley. I talked very briefly to Mr. 
Wooley in Baltimore the other night and asked him a little bit about 
it. I think I have heard about it in just the last 2 or 3 weeks. I 
heard about it first through a member of our own radio group here 
in Wasliington about 3 weeks ago, I would say. But I have not 
looked into it. 

Mr. Thomas. That member of the radio group, did he or she advise 
that this man Weiner be discharged from OPA? 

Mr. Bowles. Did she? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes. 

Mr. Bowles. No, very definitely not. 

Mr. Thomas. Did she tell you that the broadcasts were absolutely 
all right, that there was no Communist program in it? 

Mr. Bowles. She said she had gone over them in some detail, 
although it is not our real job in Washington to correct or change, 
what we do is check facts down here, and we want to be certain that 
the facts are right, as to factual information, for instance, on food 
production or textiles, or clothing, where we have the facts or can 
get them readily available thi^ough some other group. Now, the 
actual writing of the program and all that is in the hands of the 
regional office and up to them. 

Mr. Thomas. What is this woman's name? 

Mr. Bowles. Miss Eloise Daubenspeck. 

Mr. MuRDOCK. Mr. Bowles, how many have you on your staff 
throughout the entire country occupying a position similar to this 
Max Weiner — or Tex Weiner? 

Mr. Bowles. I think — well, I haven't got the figures here, but I 
think that our total information staff, including stenographic help is, 
roughly, about 350 or 400 people. And that is scattered all over the 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 7 

United States. Their job is to keep people informed on regulations 
and kee-p the public informed on point changes, notify businesses 
and see that they are kept in touch. It is highly important work. 
I have a great feeling that one of the poorest things this Government 
does, really, is in getting the facts out on some of the work that they 
do. I think if the average businessman knows what is expected of 
him, or if the public knows what the rules are, they will follow them. 
It is when they don't understand them, don't understand the reason 
for them, that they are inclined sometimes not to go along, and I feel 
that the better that work of keeping them informed is done, the less 
problem you have on complaints, the more people go along with you 
and help you and back you up and support you . 

Mr. MuRDOCK. I agree with you thoroughly that we need more 
accurate information, especially about these very difficult problems 
that involve so many millions of us. 

Mr. Bowles. The newspapers and radios both — I don't want to 
magnify the job, but they have to get that factual information from 
us, and that is what we have to provide. 

Mr. Rankin. Don't you think it is bad practice to have someone 
on yom- pay roll representing, you might say, the Federal Govern- 
ment, to be broadcasting on the pay roll of someone else, some private 
enterprise? Don't you think that ought to be separated and people 
ought to be given factual information without having the cost paid 
as an advertisement of some private enterprise? 

Mr. Bowles. If it were colored, Mr. Rankin, I certainly would think 
that, and I know that Standard Brands is one of the respected com- 
panies of the country, and I am sure they would not attempt to color it. 
You can go into that, but I am very positive in my own feeling both 
as to their integrity and point of view, and we have such a big job to 
do, that whenever we can get any help, we are glad to get it. Lots of 
people have come forward and offered to help us in any possible way 
to get the facts out. 

Mr. Rankin. One of the great problems before Congress is protect-^ 
ing the American people from abuses over the radio. 

Mr. Bowles. That is right. * 

Mr. Rankin. It is at the point now where anyone can invade the 
average home and advertise anything from intoxicating liquors up 
and down, and the average Christian home has no way of protecting 
itself. Now, from my viewpoint, these broadcasts dealing out gov- 
ernmental information should be entirely separated, at least from 
private enterprise. 

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Bowles, how generally do you follow the practice 
of using information people who are serving two masters, that is, the 
Federal Government master No. 1, and some private enterprise master 
No. 2? It seems to me that is a difficult policy. 

Mr. Bowles. I would not think that that happens. They are 
working for us and for the Federal Government, and the only thing 
there at the time was— I don't know the details of it— Mr. Wooley 
and the representatives of Standard Brands can tell you about it, 
but they simply furnished the time, and I am very sure, knowing the 
company as I do, that there would be no interference in what was said. 

Mr. MuNDT. I am not advised that there was any interference, 
but I am inclined to be critical of the policy as a rather loose one, to 
use such information 100 percent. Those are tremendously impor- 



8 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

tant jobs. They speak for the Government. They speak Holy Writ 
to a lot of people, and if they are contaminating the airways with 
propaganda of a subversive nature, that is a fearful situation. 

Mr. Bowles. I agree with you. 

Mr. MuNDT. Even aside from that, because they are pontificating 
with the power of the Federal Government behind them, if they are 
on somebody else's pay roll, using somebody else's radio time, it 
seems to me there is tremendous danger of flashing the news to com- 
mercialize somebody's product or for some other reason. I think 
that — and you think so because you are doing that — you have got to 
be pure as Caesar's wife if you have got this job. You can't even be 
suspect of making any commercial profits out of it. 

Mr. Bowles. That is right. 

Mr. MuNDT. And I just wish you would get informers and pay 
them sufficiently so they don't have to chisel around on somebody 
else's radio time or hold a hand behind their backs and get part of 
their salary from somebody else. 

Mr. Bowles. I don't think there is any question of that. Their 
whole salary comes from the Government, and they are clearly for 
the Government. 

Mr. MuNDT. They are using radio time that somebody else pays 
for. 

Mr. Bowles. That is right, but I think you will find that Standard 
Brands — and Mr. Wooley can tell you more about it — is completely 
divorced from it. 

Mr. MuNDT. They just donate the time? 

Mr. Bowles. Entirely. 

The Chairman. The broadcaster receives no salary or pay of any 
kind from the sponsors when he is employed broadcasting for OPA? 

Mr. Bowles. Oh, no. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Bowles, would you mind if I refreshed your 
recollection on one point? I think it ought to be cleared up. I 
believe you said that you had never heard of this fellow Weiner until 
recently. Is it true that on November 23, 1944, Mr. Elmer Davis, 
head of the Office of War 'Information, wrote you a personal letter 
complaining about the activities of Mr. Weiner, and on December4 
you replied to Mr. Davis and said: 

When I received your letter of November 23 regarding the broadcast of the 
radio script Soldiers with Coupons, by OPA in New York, I immediately asked 
for an investigation of the matter. 

We have been in touch with Mr. Weiner and have told him that, regardless of 
the reasons, never again is he to allow the broadcast of a script with OWI clearance. 

So you probably did hear about this gentlemen's activities before. 

Mr. Bowles. I undoubtedly did. I don't remember the latter. I 
would not investigate myself, naturally, but would have somebody 
else do it. So far as Mr. Weiner's name is concerned, it was a fresh 
name to me when I heard it a few weeks ago. 

Mr. Adamson. Is one of your assistants named Jack O'Brien? 

Mr. Bowles. Yes, he is one of the information people. 

Mr. Adamson. And on December 2, 1944, I suppose that at your 
direction, Mr. O'Brien wrote a memorandum to Mr. James Rogers, 
Deputy Administrator. Who is Mr. James Rogers? 

Mr. Bowles. He is Deputy Administrator of OPA. He has been 
there since I have been there. He used to be with OWI, formerly 
Deputy Administrator of OWI. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 9 

Mr. Adamson. And he would be directly under you? 
Mr. Bowles. That is right, one of my two principal assistants, 
Jim Brownlee and Jim Rogers. On this point the memorandum says: 

The point was stressed that if Mr. Weiner had any more trouble with OWI 
over his radio scripts, it would be necessary for us to ask for his resignation. 
Both Mr. V^'^einer and Mr. Mencher promised there would be no further trouble. 

These were taken from your files through the courtesy of your 
Office. And I would like, Mr. Chairman, to offer them as exhibits 
here, so. that the whole matter may be together. 

The Chairman. They may be received. 

Mr. Adamson. There are four of them. How do you want them 
marked, Mr. Chairman; shall we mark them 1, 2, 3? 

The Chairman. I think that would be the best way. 

Mr. Adamson. I will ask to have the letter of November 23, 1944, 
marked exhibit 1. Mr. Bowles referred to Mr. Davis' letter dated 
December 4, 1944, No. 2; the memorandum of December 2, 1944, 
from Jack O'Brien to James Rogers marked No. 3; and the letter 
from Mr. Tex Weiner, dated December 1, 1944, marked No. 4. 

(The letters referred to were marked exhibits 1 to 4, inclusive, as 
indicated.) 

Exhibit 1 

Office of War Information, 

Office of the Director, 
Washington 25, D. C, November 23, 1944. 
Chester Bowles, 

Administrator, Office of Price Administration, 

Washington, D. C. 

Dear Mr. Bowles: At 9:45 p. m. on Wednesday, November 22, over radio 
station WXEW, New York, the New York office of the Office of Price Adminis- 
tration broadcast a radio script entitled "Soldiers With Coupons" without obtain- 
ing the required clearance from our Radio Bureau. 

As you know, this constitutes a direct violation of Presidential Executive 
Order No. 9182, section 4, subsection (d), which states that the Director of 
the Office of War Information shall "review, clear, and approve all proposed 
radio and motion picture programs sponsored by Federal departments and 
agencies * * *." 

In the present instance, the violation was knowing and deliberate. Mr. Tex 
Weiner, writer of the script and radio-program director for the regional office of 
OP A in New York has been repeatedly advised by the clearance officer of our 
Radio Bureau that unless his scripts (for Wednesday broadcast) reached the 
clearance section in good time, clearance might be physically impossible. For 
the past 4 weeks, however, the scripts have not arrived in Washington until the 
actual day of broadcast in New York. On the day in question, November 22, 
when the script had not arrived by 4 p. m., Mr. Weiner was notified that since it 
was not in our hands clearance could obviously not be given, and that the program 
consequently could not be broadcast. 

Mr. Weiner apparently refused to acquiesce in this ruling, and broadcast the 
uncleared program at 9:45 p. m.; the script ultimately reached Washington at 
10:30 a. m., Thursday morning. 

I should be obliged if you would take up this matter with the members of 
your New York staff concerned in the strongest possible terms, pointing out the 
direct violation of the President's Executive order, and perhaps mentioning that 
this is the first time the order has been deliberately violated by any Government 
agency. 

Since the integrity of the entire Government clearance operation involving over 
40 agencies is at stake here, may I hear from you at your earliest convenience 
what action has been taken? 
Very truly, 

Elmer Davis, Director. 



10 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Exhibit 2 

December 4, 1944. 
The Honorable Elmer Davis, 

Director, Office of War Information, Washington, D. C. 
Dear Mr. Davis: VHien I received your letter of November 23, regarding the 
broadcast of the radio script Soldiers With Coupons, by OPA in New York, I 
immediately asked for an investigation of the matter. 

We have been in touch with Mr. Weiner and have told him that — regardless of 
the reasons — never again is he to allow the broadcast of a script without OWI 
clearance. 

Upon explanation, Mr. Weiner, recognizes his mistake. I have a letter before 
me from him asking me to assure your office that "nothing of this sort will ever 
happen again." 

Rest assured that our intention is to see that OPA cooperates with OWI to 
the fullest extent. Each one of our regions and districts knows of that point of 
view and I feel sure there will be no more slips. 
Sincerely, 

Chester Bowles, 

Administrator, 



Exhibit 3 



December 2, 1944. 



Memorandum. 

To: Mr. James Rogers, Deputy Administrator. 

From: Jack O'Brien, Director, Field Division, Department of Information. 

As a follow-up of my telephone conversation with Mr. Tex Weiner because of 
his difficulties with OWI on clearance of the radio script Soldiers With Coupons, 
I had a meeting in the New York regional office with Regional Information Execu- 
tive Mencher and Mr. Weiner. The point was stressed that if Mr. Weiner had 
any more trouble with OWI over his radio scripts, it would be necessary for us to 
ask for his resignation. Both Mr. Weiner and Mr. Mencher promised there 
would be no further trouble. A letter from Mr. Weiner to me about the incident 
is attached. 

I trust this handling of the case will be satisfactory. Let me know if there is 
anything further you wish done. 

Exhibit 4 

Office of Price Administration, 
N'ew York 1, N. Y., December 1, 1944- 
Mr. Jack O'Brien, 

Chief of Field Operations, Department of Information, 

Office of Price Administration, Washington 25, D. C. 
Dear Mr. O'Brien: Following your verbal request for an explanation of my 
broadcasting the radio show Soldiers With Coupons, November 22, without OWI 
clearance, I should like to make the following statement. 

After you exijlained the implications of my action, I see that I acted ill-advisedly. 
However, I want you to know that it was because of the very best intentions, and 
if my action will do anything to jeopardize the very friendly and cooperative rela- 
tionships this agency has with OWI, I am very sorry. 

As I told you, OWI has been most cooperative and helpful with us in our radio 
work in the New York region. Because of that very splendid relationship I acted 
as I did, assuming that the responsibility of putting on the show was placed on 
my shoulders and that I should be personally responsible for any incorrect policy 
statements that might be made. I did not understand a definite instruction not 
to go on with the show. OWI could have told the radio station the show had been 
■cleared. There would be no possibility of broadcasting. 

However, whatever the reasons for my action, I had no thought of acting without 
proper clearance. Please advise the Washington OWI people that nothing of this 
sort will happen again. I am going to get my scripts to OWI in advance of showing 
so that ample time will be available for clearances. 

Let me again stress the fact that OWI has been most cooperative and helpful 
to me in our regional radio work. I intend to maintain that friendly working 
relationship at all costs. 
Very truly yours, 

Tex Weiner, 
Regional Radio Director. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 11 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Bowles, who is Mr. Mencher? 

Mr. Bowles. Mr. Menchor is the regional information executive 
in New York, working for Mr. Wooley. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you recall at this time whether or not Mr. 
Weiner has come to your attention in any other matters or contro- 
versy of this character? Is that the only one you know of? 

Mr. Bowles. The first time I could tell you that I recollect hearing 
his name was 3 or 4 weeks ago. The letter from Elmer Davis I 
remember vaguely as you read it. That is a big organization, and 
an awful lot of letters come in over a period of 6 months. 

Mr. Adamson. And you do not clearly recall that incident? 

Mr. Bowles. No; I do not. I remember it now that you read the 
letter, that I did write it, and Mr. Potter, I think, could probably 
give you full details of just what the letter was about and what 
happened about it. 

Mr. x^DAMsoN. Did you know that your assistant had condemned 
some of ]Mr. Weiner's scripts very severely? 

Mr. Bowles. I heard that they criticized some of them. I didn't 
think from what they told me that it was particularly serious, but 
they thought some of it was. 

Mr. Adamson. Would you like to hear one of them as a sample 
before you go? 

Mr. Bowles. I would be delighted to. I never have. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you have a radio director in each region of the 
United States, or just in New York? 

Mr. Bowles. We have a small staff in each regional office. 
They have a dual job. They have the job of supervising information 
throughout the whole region. I don't know whether each one has a 
radioman particularly or not. Maybe some of the others would 
know. I just don't know what their staff consists of. I assume 
they probably do have someone there on the radio. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you know whether or not a dramatic program 
is permitted by the OPA in any region except New York? 

Mr. Bowles. ^\'ell, I don't think the question has come up. I 
don't think there is any objection to it basically, but I don't know 
of any others. There may be. I am pretty sure there are, as a 
matter of fact. 

Mr. Adamson. The New York region is ihe only region where the 
OPA puts out a dramatic program. 

Mr. Bowles. It is? ^Vell, I didn't know that. That is not a 
matter of policy. 

Mr. Adamson. Before you go, I would like to get your opinion on 
a sample memorandum — which, by the way, is a photostat from your 
files with the cooperation of your Office; the gentleman's name here 
is apparently Sam Braunt. He says: 

Again, the whole tone of the script is bad, negative, ugly. Moreover, it 
doesn't prove anything except perhaps that OPA is a gestapo organization. Why 
can't they get really constructive, educational stories, into these scripts, and a 
tone that builds good will for OPA, instead of just this negative approach? To 
take the same tone as the scripts, if this depends on mv OK, "it ain't got it no- 
how." 

Now, could you give us your personal opinion as to the tone of a 
progiam that has been criticized in that way by your Office? 

Mr. Bowles. Well, I didn't know it had. I think you have got to 
go into it a little more carefully than one memorandum. 



12 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. We have got a lot of them, but I don't want to de- 
tain you here, but could you give us 

Mr. Bowles (interposing). I think I would take Mr. Wooley's 
judgment on a thing of that kind. I think his judgment is pretty 
good, and I think he carries a big responsibility, both now and then, 
and I think he can probably answer that. 

Mr. Adamson. Did you know that Mr. Weiner frequently ignored 
the editorial changes made by your staff in his script? 

Mr. Bowles. I hear that there are comments made. Those are 
not basically changes, as I understand. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, he ignores the comments of your editorial 
staff. 

Mr. Bowles. We have no evidence to that effect, Mr. Adamson. 

Mr. Adamson. I just wanted to know if you are familiar with that. 
If not, all right. 

Mr. Bowles. No; I am not. 

Mr. Adamson. We will show that. 

The Chairman. That will be all right, after it is shown. 

Mr. Adamson. That is all I have of Mr. Bowles. 

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Bowles, don't you think that a Government 
agency ought to hold a tight rein over any of its employees using the 
radio? 

Mr. Bowles. Well, I think we ought to be extremely careful. Of 
course, I do. 

Mr. Rankin. A general in the Army told me more than a year and 
a half ago that if he were to give out the information that certain 
broadcasters — Drew Pearson is one of them — give out over the radio 
something that evidently comes from some secret source in the Depart- 
ment, he would be court-martialed before sunrise, and that that infor- 
mation was picked up by short-wave all over Europe and probably 
cost the lives of many of our American, boys. Now, don't you think 
that any governmental agency or governmental department that has 
a representative broadcasting over the country ought to hold a very 
tight rein over that individual and see that he not only does not give 
out military secrets but that he does not make broadcasts that are 
subversive or destructive of confidence in the Government of the 
United States? 

Mr. Bowles. I certainly agree with your general statement. But 
I think this: You have got a big organization; you can't handle it all 
from W ashington. Frequently I find that people in general, and Con- 
gress, believe in decentralization. I think you can get too much 
government in "Washington and too many lines running to a few desks 
here in this city, and I do not think that is right. I think you have 
got to get people you have got confidence in and give them authority 
to use their good judgment. I have got all the confidence in the world 
in. the good judgment in an operation, of this kind of Mr. Wooley. 

Mr. Rankin. You understand I am approaching this individual 
case without any information on it at all, because I know nothing 
about it. I am just speaking of the general policy. 

Mr. Bowles. I sincerely don't think Mr. Wooley or anybody else 
would at all disagree with you on that. 

Mr. Rankin. If these abuses of radio continue, Congress is going 
to have to step in. 

Mr. Bowles. They should, of course. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 13 

Mr. Rankin. And drastically revise the entire law governing radio 
broadcasts. 

Mr. Bowles. Of course, I am not familiar with the broadcasts. I 
think Mr. A\'ooley is; and I think that somebody will be glad to look 
into it. But I agree with your generality, of course. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? 

Mr. MuRDOCK. Mr. Bowles, could you tell us about how many 
individuals are offering their services, volunteering their services to 
the Administrator of OPA? 

Mr. Bowles. We have, roughly, 200,000 volunteers, serving with- 
out pay. More volunteers have already offered their services during 
the month of May 1945, after VE-day than they did in the previous 
May. Those people have worked their heads off for very little thanks, 
or no thanks. Some of them have even been kicked around a little 
bit. They work long, tedious hours for the war effort. 

I would also like to add on this question of advertisers in general, 
that I think the advertisers have done a very magnificent job in 
helping the Government all the way through. Without them I don't 
hardly know how we would have done a lot of the work. Through 
the Advertising Advisorv Council they have put all their resources 
at the command of OWI, and they have done a tremendous job in 
explaining shortages, explaining the various problems that come up 
to the country, getting a line on complaints, ratio points, buying over 
ceiling. They have spent a great many millions of dollars of their 
own money during the war to help the Government, and I think 
they deserve a lot of thanks for it. 

So far as volunteers are concerned, we have many more volunteers, 
five times as many, as we have paid people. As a matter of fact, 
three-fourths of our paid people served first as volunteers. Your 
local board chairman was a volunteer, and he has full authority over 
his staff there, the paid people and the volunteers also. Two-thkds 
to three-fourths of all the paid people are working under volunteers. 
I don't think there has ever been a volunteer organization to the 
extent that OPA has been. 

The Chairman. May I suggest that questions be kept in line with 
the purpose of tliis hearing? This is not an interrogation into the 
general conduct of OPA nor the patriotism of volunteers that are 
helping the Government. We have a specific problem before us, and 
let us confine ourselves to that question. 

Mr. Murdock. The point I wanted to make was that it is not 
unusual to find one rotten apple in the barrel, and I am just as anxious 
as you could possibly be to get that rotten apple out, if there should 
be one in the barrel. 

Mr. Bowles. If the apple is rotten. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? Thank you, Mr. 
Bowles. 

Mr. Adamson. I would like to call Mr. D. B. Stetler, who is adver- 
tising manager of Standard Brands. I also wish to say that Mr. 
Stetler's office has cooperated with us very nicely, and he called up 
the advertising agency, J. Walter Thompson, and instructed them, 
or rather, autliorized them, to provide the committee with photo- 
static copies of the rate contract and the pay roll. 

The Chairman. Mr. Stetler, will you be sworn? 

83079 — 16 3 



14 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

TESTIMONY OF D. B. STETLER, WHITE PLAINS, N. Y., ADVER- 
TISING DIRECTOR, STANDARD BRANDS, INC. 

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler, please state where you live and for 
whom you work. 

Mr. Stetler. I live in White Plains, N. Y. I work for Standard 
Brands, Inc., 595 Madison Avenue, New York City. 

Mr. Adamson. How long have you been so employed? 

Mr. Stetler. With Standard Brands and preceding companies, 
since 1926. 

Mr. Adamson. Then you were there before Mr. Wooley retired, 
were you not? 

Mr. Stetler. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Adamson. Were you one of Mr. Wooley's subordinates when 
he left? 

Mr. Stetler. That's right. 

Mr. Adamson. By the way, was Mr. Wooley advertising manager? 
I thought he was vice president. 

Mr. Stetler. He was vice president in charge of advertising and 
sales. 

Mr. Adamson. I beg your pardon. You are the advertising 
manager, but you are not vice president; is that correct? 

Mr. Stetler. I am advertising director. I am not a vice president. 

Mr. Adamson. I want to show you the photostatic copies of radio 
contract by 3^our company with J. Walter Thompson Co., and also a 
couple of sample pay rolls which will answer the chairman's question, 
by the way, about how this dramatic play is paid for, and ask you if 
these are true copies [handing papers to the witness]? 

Mr. Stetler. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the contract, 
dated April 13, 1945, marked "Exhibit No. 5." 

The Chairman. It will be received. 

Mr. Adamson. And the contract dated April 16, 1945, marked 
"Exhibit 6." 

The Chairman. It will likewise be admitted. 

(The contract between J. Walter Thompson Co. and Standard 
Brands Inc., dated April 13, 1945, was marked "Exhibit 5," and the 
agreement between the Bamberger Broadcasting Service, Inc., and 
J. Walter Thompson Co., dated April 16, 1945, was marked "Ex- 
hibit 6.") 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 15 

Exhibit 5 

Standard Contract for Spot Broadcasting (Member of A. A. A. A.) 

(Standard Conditions 1942. See Over) 

J. Walter Thompson Co. 

New York, Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco, Hollywood, Los Angeles, Seattle, 

and Principal Cities Abroad 

NEW YORK 17, 420 LEXINGTON AVENUE ' 

[Duplicate for station acceptance— Please sign and return to agency] 

To management of station: WOR. Contract No. 5220. 

City and State: New York, N. Y. Date: April 13, 1945. 

Please furnish broadcasting facilities to [advertiser] Standard Brands Incorpo- 

R.\TED. 

For [product] .Name of program: "Soldiers With Coupons." 

Length of broadcast: 15 minutes. Hour: 6:15-6:30 p. m. Days: Tuesday. 

Times per week: 1. Total No. times: 13 (13 wks.). 

Program subject to removal should WOR sell 6:15-6:30 p. m. Monday through 
Friday. 

NO CHANGES IN SCHEDULE ARE TO BE MADE WITHOUT ADVANCE APPROVAL FROM US 

Commencement date: May 1, 1945. Expiration date July 24, 1945. 

Program material arrangements: Bills will be paid promptly upon receipt of 
satisfactory proof of performance including schedule showing programs preced- 
ing and following each commercial. 

Commercial announcements: See clause No. 2 on reverse side hereof regarding 
termination. 

Continuitv: To be sent you. Live talent: Program to be furnished to station by 
the OPA. 

Additional instructions: This contract may be extended for additional periods 
(either consecutive or otherwise) within one year from May 1, 1945, on the 
basis of rates now in effect as shown herein. Additional discovmts, if any, • 
will be allowed from May 1, 1945, depending on the number of broadcasts within 
one year. In the event of a rate increase during the period of this contract 
the above client will be protected for one year from effective date of rate increase. 

Rates: Station charge Talent Line service Other charges Total 

Each broadcast: $340. 00 $ $ $ $4, 420. 00 

For 13 broadcasts: $ $ $ $ $ 

Less time discount: Less agency commission: 15% of station charge 
% %of talent charge 

Subject to standard conditions on back hereof. 

J. Walter Thompson Co., New York. 
Per LiNNEA Nelson 

Accepted for station WOR by Ligett Thomas. 

Subject to the terms and conditions of WOR's formal agreement dated April 
16, 1945. 

LB Member of American Association of Advertising Agencies 

Standard Contract for Spot Broadcasting "A. A. A. A. Form" 
CopjTight 1942 .American Association of Advertising Agencies 

(over) 



16 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

[Reverse side] 

Standard Conditions 

governing contracts for spot broadcasting 

Adopted 1933 and Revised 1942 by 

American Association of Advertising Agencies and National Association of 

Broadcasters 

1. Payment 

[a] The agency agrees to pay, and the broadcasting station agrees to hold the 
agency solely liable for payment, for the broadcasting covered by this contract 
unless expressly otherwise agreed in writing. 

[b] The agency personally agrees to pay for broadcasting covered by this 
contract, at the office of the broadcasting station or of its authorized representa- 
tive, on or before the last day of the month following that in which the broad- 
casting is done unless otherwise stipulated on the face of this contract; or, when 
cash discount is deducted but payment date not specified on the face of the con- 
tract, on the fifteenth of the month following. , 

[c] In all cases date of payment is mater'al and unless otherwise stipulated 
the postmark date on the envelope properly addressed to the broadcasting station 
or to its representative shall be considered the date when payment was made. 

[d] Station's invoices for broadcasting covered by this contract shall be in 
accordance with the station's log and shall so state on each such invoice. 

[e] Invoices should be rendered not less often than monthly. 

[f] Affidavits of performance shall be furnished by station on request of agency. 

[g] The station reserves the right to cancel the contract at any time upon de- 
fault by the agency in the payment of bills, or other breach, or in the event of 
any material violation on the part of the agency of any of the conditions herein 
named; and upon such cancellation all broadcasting done hereunder and unpaid 
shall become immediately due and payable. In case of delinquency in payments 
or impaired credit the station shall have the right to change the requirements as 
to terms of payment for further broadcasting under this contract as it mav see 
fit. 

2. Termination and renewal 

[a] This contract may be terminated by either party by giving the other 
fourteen (14) days' prior written notice; provided that no such notice shall be 
effective until fourteen (14) days after start of broadcast service hereunder. 
If agency so terminates this contract it will pay station according to station's 
rate card on which this contract is based for the lesser number of periods, for all 
services previously rendered by station. If station so terminates this contract, 
agency will then either agree with station on a satisfactory substitute day or time 
for continuance of broadcasts covered by this contract at the card rates on which 
this contract is based for such substitute time, or, if no such agreement can be 
reached agency will pay station according to the rates specified herein, for all 
services previously rendered by station; that is, the agency shall have the benefit 
of the same discounts which the agency would have earned had it been allowed to 
complete the contract. In the event of termination hereunder neither party 
shall be liable to the other party otherwise than as specified in this paragraph, 
and in paragraph 6 hereof. 

[b] The broadcast time (or times) covered by the contract may be renewed by 
the agency by giving station two (2) weeks' written notice prior to the expiration 
of the contract or any extension thereof. 

3. Inability to broadcast 

[a] Should the station, due to public emergency or necessity, legal restrictions, 
act of God, or for any other reason beyond the control of the station, be unable 
to broadcast one or a part of any one of the agency's programs at the time speci- 
fied, the station shall not be liable to agency except to the extent of allowing in 
such case either (1) a pro rata reduction in the time charges liereunder, or (2) if 
an interruption occurs during the commercial announcement portion of any 
1 rcadcast a credit to agency in the same proportion to the total station time 
charge which the omitted commercial portion bears to the total conimercial 
portion of the broadcast, it being mutually agreed that station shall credit agency 
on whichever basis is more favorable to agency. In the event of such emission 
station will upon agency's request make a suitable courtesy announcement as 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 17 

to such omission. Such omissioii or interruption shall not affect rates of discount: 
that is, the agency shall have the benefit of the same discounts which the agency 
would have earned had it been allowed to complete the contrg,ct. If the inter- 
ruption equals or exceeds 50% of the total program time the station shall defray a 
pro rata share of the live talent costs, unless the interruption is due to an act of 
God, public emergency or legal restriction. 

4. Substitution of programs of public importance 

[a] The station sliall have the right to cancel any broadcast covered by this 
contract in order to broadcast a sustaining program which it deems to be of 
public importance. In such case, the station will notify the agency, in advance 
if possible; but in any case immediately after such broadcast, that agency's 
program lias been cancelled. 

[b] The station, provided it has first secured the approval of agency as far 
in advance as possible, may also cancel any broadcast covered by this contract 
and substitute a commercial broadcast of public importance. 

[c] In the case of a cancelled program, whether for the substitution of a sus- 
taining program or a commercial program, the agency and the station will agree on 
a satisfactory substitute day or time for the broadcast, or, if no such agreement 
can be reached, the broadcast will be considered as cancelled without affecting the 
rates, discounts, or rights shown on this contract, except that agency shall not be 
required to pay for the cancelled program. 

[d] In the event of such cancellation or postponement, the station will make, 
if approved by the agency, a suitable courtesy announcement as to the reason for 
cancellation or postponement and as to any substituted time agreed upon, and 
the station shall reimburse the agencj' any noncancellable cost of live talent. 

5. Rates 

[a] It is agreed that the rate named in this contract is the lowest rate made by 
the station for like services and that if at any time during the life of this contract 
the station makes a lower rate for the same services, this contract shall be com- 
pleted at such lower rate from that date. 

[b] All rates shall be published. There shall be no secret rates, rebates, or 
agreements affecting rates. All rates shall be furnished agencies if requested. 

[c] If this contract is continued be.vond the time specified herein, the additional 
broadcasts shall be considered part of this contract and the same rate shall apply 
until any lower rate prevailing at the time this contract is made shall have been 
earned: and then such lower rate shall apply to the whole contract. This pro- 
vision shall not, however, cover a service rendered by station later than one year 
from the date of the first broadcast. 

[d] In the event of revision of station rates or discounts, this contract may be 
extended at the rates and discounts herein shown without penalty of short rate 
or discounts on previous broadcasts hereunder, for a period of not more than 
fifty-two (52) weeks from the effective date of such revision; provided, however, 
that such extension is executed not later than thirty (30) days after the effective 
date of such revision. 

[e] In the event agency contracts with station for additional time for the 
advertiser hereunder the rates and discounts shown on the rate card on which this 
contract is based shall apply to such additional time for a period of fifty-two (52) 
weeks from the effective date of any revision of rates or discounts. 

[f] All broadcasts placed with station for the advertiser within one year from 
the date of the first broadcast hereunder shall be combined for the purpose of 
calculating the total amount of frequency discounts earned, provided, however, 
that announcements cannot be .so combined with five (5) mimite or longer pro- 
grams. 

6. Programs 

[a] The contract for station time- includes the services of the technical staff 
and of a regular staff announcer. Other talent and service charges, if any, are 
covered in this contract and such charges are subject to change by the agency 
with the consent of the station. 

fb] Should the station fail to receive program material seven days in advance 
of the broadcast it shall so notify tlie agency. Subsequent to this notification, 
if the station fails to receive the program material in time for the broadcast, if 
the programs are transcriptions, the station shall, following first broadcast, repeat 
a previous program unless otherwi.se in.structed, or unless program is one of a 
series, in which case the station shall have the right to announce the name, address, 



18 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

and business classification of the advertiser, produce a creditable program and 
make regular charge for station time and reasonable talent charge to the agency. 
If the programs are produced locally it shall, following first broadcast, repeat the 
commercial announcement of- the preceding broadcast, using the agreed talent 
unit. 

[cj Except as otherwise hereinafter expressly provided the agency will save 
the station harmless against all liability for libel, slander, illegal competition or 
trade practice, infringement of trade-marks, trade names or program titles, viola- 
tion of rights of privacy and infringement of copyrights and proprietory rights, 
resulting from the broadcasting of the programs herein provided for in the form 
furnished by the agency. The station agrees, however, to save the agency and 
advertiser harmless against all such liability where the programs are prepared 
and produced both as to artists and program content by the station excepting 
only such liability as may result from the broadcasting of the commercial credits 
and other material as furnished by the agency. Station will save agency and 
advertiser harmless against all such liability with respect to music on station- 
built programs. Station will save agency and advertiser harn less against all 
such liability with respect to m\isic on agency-built programs provided such music 
has been cleared and approved for broadcasting by a licensor designated by station. 
Agency will save station harmless against all such liability with respect to music 
on agency-built programs if such music has not been cleared and approved for 
broadcasting by a licensor designated by station. 

[d] Notwithstanding the indemnitor (party hereto on whom duty of defense 
is imposed) shall have assumed the defense of any litigation hereunder, the 
indemnitee, upon relieving the indemnitor in writing of its obligations hereunder 
with respect to such litigation, shall have the right, if it shall so elect, thereafter 
to conduct the same at its expense by its own counsel. It is understood, however, 
that by common consent, the litigation and the responsibility of the parties hereto 
may be handled in some other way. The indemnitor upon request shall keep 
the indemnitee fully advised with respect thereto and confer with the indemnitee 
or its counsel. 

[e] Programs prepared by the agency are subject to the approval of the station 
management both as to artists and to program content. 

[f] The provisions of this paragraph shall survive any cancellation or termina- 
tion of this contract. 

7. General 

[a] This contract is subject to the terms of licenses held by the parties hereto 
and is also subject to all Federal, State and Municipal laws and regulations now 
in force, or which may be enacted in the future. 

[b] The rights under this contract shall not be transferable to another adver- 
tiser than the one specified in this contract unless the consent of the station has 
been obtained. 

[c] In dealing with agencies, the station shall follow a uniform policy to avoid 
discrimination. 

[d] The agency agrees that it will not rebate to its client any part of the com- 
mission allowed by the station. 

[e] All requests by agency for station to handle audience mail must be sub- 
mitted to station in advance and approved by station. 

[f] The failure of the station or of the agency to enforce any of the provisions 
herein listed with respect to a breach thereof in any one instance shall not be 
construed as a general relinquishment or waiver under this agreement and the 
same shall nevertheless be and remain in full force and effect. 



Exhibit 6 

Contract Between Bamberger Broadcasting Service, Inc., and J. Walter 
Thompson Company & Standard Brands, Inc. 

Date April 16th, 1^945 

WOR 

This Agreement, made this Sixteenth day of April, 1945, between Bamberger 
Broadcasting Service, Incorporated, owner and operator of Station WOR (herein- 
after called WOR), and J. Walter Thompson Company, 420 Lexington Avenue, 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 19 

New York, New York, and Standard Brands, Inc., 595 Madison Avenue, New 
York, New York, by said J. Walter Thompson Company (hereinafter collectively 
called Sponsor). 

The parties hereto mutually agree as follows: 

BROADCAST PERIOD 

1. WOR shall broadcast over Station WOR programs for Sponsor during the 
following approximate periods of timfe: 14i4 minutes between 6:15 P. M. and 
6:29:30 P. M., New York City time, on Tuesday of each week, for a term of 13 
weeks beginning on Tuesday, Mav 1st, 1945 and ending on Tuesday, July 24th, 
1945. 

TERMINATION 

2. Either party may terminate this agreement by giving at least 

days' notice to the other party prior to the effective date of such termination. 

PRODUCT AND ADVERTISER 

3. Sponsor shall use such broadcasting time solely to advertise Institutional 
of Standard Brands, Inc. 

CHARGES 

4. Sponsor shall pay to WOR the following charges which shall become payable 
within fifteen (15) days following the end of the month in which any broadcast 
hereunder takes place: Four thousand four hundred twenty dollars ($4,420) at 
the rate of Three hundred forty dollars ($340) per week. 

This contract covers use of time only. Program "Soldiers With Coupons" will 
be supplied by the OPA. 

DISCOUNTS AND REBATES 

5. A. The gross time charges hereunder are subject (1) to the applicable weekly 
discount set forth in WOR'S current Rate Card (the rate, discount and rebate 
provisions of which are hereby made a part of this agreement) ; and (2) to the 
annual rebate hereinafter set forth. 

B. To ascertain the weekly discount for broadcasts during any week, the weekly 
gross time charges for the broadcasts during such week shall be combined with the 
weekly gross time charges of any other broadcasting time then used by the same 
advertiser during such week, provided that such other time had been used for a 
period of eight (8) or more consecutive weeks. 

C. If the programs are broadcast liereunder for a period of fifty-two (52) con- 
secutive weeks, and if Sponsor shall have paid all charges provided for hereunder, 
then Sponsor shall receive an annual rebate, payable at the end of such period, 
of ten percent (10%) of the following amount: The smallest weekly gross time 
charge billed to Sponsor for broadcasts during said period, multiplied by fifty-two. 

D. Any appropriation, omission, delay or interruption of any broadcast period 
or program referred to in subparagraph A of paragraph 8 hereof shall not affect 
rates of discounts or rebates. 

E. If WOR is required to furnish the services of any "artist" (said term, without 
limiting its generality, shall include a newscaster, commentator and amiouncer), 
and if the cost to WOR of furnishing the services of such an artist shall be increased 
by reason of the demands of any labor union, WOR shall have the right, upon 
seven (7) days' written notice to Sponsor, to make a corresponding increase in the 
charges hereunder. If Sponsor is unwilling to accept any such increase, Sponsor 
may terminate this agreement on the date of such proposed increase by giving 
WOR written notice of its intention so to do prior to the effective date of such 
increase. Termination of this agreement pursuant hereto shall not affect rates of 
discount. 

ADVERTISING AGENCY COMMISSION 

6. If this agreement is made with an advertising agency recognized by WOR, the 
time charges, after deduction of all allowable discounts and rebates, if any, shall 
subject to an advertising agency commission of fifteen percent (15%). 

INDEMNITIES 

7. A. Sponsor agrees to protect and indemnify WOR, its officers, agents, and 
employees against any and all lialjility, loss, or expense arising from any claim or 
litigation involving any charge by third persons of violation or infringement of 



20 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

their rights resulting from the' broadcasting of the programs, except as a result of 
the broadcast of any materials furnished by WOR. WOR's approval of any 
materials, talent, or commercial announcements furnished by Sponsor for inclusion 
in any broadcast will not affect Sponsor's liability hereunder; nor shall termina- 
tion of this agreement discharge such obligations. 

B. WOR agrees to protect and indemnify Sponsor, its officers, agents, and em- 
ployees against any and all liability, loss, or expense arising from any claim or 
litigation involving any charge by third persons of violation or infringement of 
their rights resulting from the broadcasting of any materials furnished by WOR. 
Termination of this agreement shall not discharge WOR's obligations hereunder. 

APPROPRIATIONS AND OMISSIONS 

8. A. Any failure by WOR to broadcast part or all of any program or any delay 
or interruption in the broadcast of part or all of any program, due to (1) the 
inability of WOR for any reason to furnish the entertainment or information 
portion of any broadcast if any is required to be furnished by WOR hereunder, 
or (2) acts of God, war, public emergency or necessity, defects or break-down of 
lines or equipment, legal restrictions, or labor dispvites, or (3) appropriation of 
part or all of any program to broadcast an event which WOR considers of public 
importance, or (4) any cause (whether similar or dissimilar to the foregoing) 
bevond the control of WOR, shall not constitute a breach of this agreement by 
WOR. 

B. WOR will use its best endeavors to give Sponsor as much notice as circum- 
stances permit of any appropriation of part or all of any broadcast period to 
broadcast events which WOR considers of public importance, and WOR will make 
such courtesy announcements as circumstances reasonably permit. 

C. In case of any appropriation, omission, delay, or interruption of any broad- 
cast period or program referred to in subparagraph A or B of this paragraph 8, 
WOR shall not be liable to Sponsor, except that Sponsor shall be entitled to a 
pro rata refund of the time*charges hereunder based upon the ratio that the 
omitted portion of the program bears to the entire scheduled broadcast period, 
but, if occurring during the commercial announcement portion of any broadcast, 
the refund shall be based upon the ratio that the omitted commercial portion bears 
to the entire scheduled commercial portion of the program. 

PROPRIETARY RIGHTS 

9. WOR shall retain all property and proprietary rights whatsoever in any 
material furnished by WOR for use in connection with the broadcasts hereunder. 

PROGRAM CHANGES 

10. A. As to any program of five (5) minutes or less duration: If WOR shall 
give sponsor notice that the broadcast period is desired for a commercial program 
of fifteen (15) minutes or more duration, and if Sponsor within forty-eight (48) 
hours after the giving of such notice shall fail to give notice to WOR of Sponsor's 
intention to broadcast the program as a fifteen-minute program, then (unless 
prior thereto the parties shall have agreed in writing upon a satisfactory substitute 
time for the broadcast) this agreement shall automatically come to an end on 
the date specified in such notice, which shall be not less than fourteen (14) days 
after the giving of such notice. 

B. Where the term of broadcasting contracted for hereunder shall be for a 
period of less than eight (8) weeks: If WOR shall give Sponsor notice that the 
time is desired for another sponsor desiring to enter into a contract of more than 
eight (8) weeks in duration, and if Sponsor within forty-eight (48) hours after 
the giving of such notice shall fail to give notice to WOR of Sponsor's election to 
continue to broadcast the program during a firm period of not less than eight (8) 
weeks in duration, then (unless prior thereto the parties shall have agreed in 
writing upon a satisfactory substitute time for the broadcast) this agreement 
shall automatically come to an end on the date specified in such notice, which 
shall be not less than fourteen (14) davs after the giving of such notice*" 

C. Termination of this agreement in accordance with this paragraph 10 will 
not affect the weekly discount rate. 

DEFAULTS 

11. If Sponsor shall fail to pav any sum due hereunder or shall breach any other 
provision of this agreement on Sponsor's part to be performed, WOR at its option 
may give written notice to Sponsor terminating this agreement. Termination of 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 21 

this agreement shall not prejildice any right of action on WOR's part by reason 
of,_any such broach by Sponsor. 

PROGRAM MATKRIAL 
WOR 

12. A Sponsor, at its own cost and expense, shall furnish the entertainment or 
information portion of the broadcasts, the general nature of which shall be as 
follows: 

Shdiild an advertiser desire Jto use the above time for a five-time-a-week strip or 
more, WOR reserves the right to change Sponsor's time to other mutually satis- 
factory periods upon the serving of four (4) weeks' written notice. In the event a 
mutually satisfactory time is not available, this contract may be cancelled by 
either party ujjon the seiving of four (4) weeks' written notice prior to date of 
such cancellation. 

B. If Sponsor is required to furnish the entertainment or information portion of 
the broadcasts, it shall, at its own cost and expense, furnish all materials and talent 
therefor, which must be satisfactor,y to WOR. WOR reserves the right, without 
prior notice to Sponsor, to eliminate any part of any program which it considers 
contrary to its policies or interest. 

C. At least seven (7) days prior to the date when a scheduled broadcast is to 
take place, sponsor shall deliver to WOR all commercial announcements and all 
other materials which Sponsor is required to furnish WOR hereunder. 

D. If Sponsor for any reason shall fail to furnish commercial announcements 
satisfactory to both parties, then the announcement shall be substantially as 
follows: "This program is being furnished by Standard Brands, Inc. (name of 
advertiser)." 

MISCELLANEOUS 

13. A. This agreement is subject to the terms of all licenses issued to WOR, and 
to all federal, state, and municipal laws and regulations and all orders of the 
Federal Communications Commission, which may now or hereafter be in effect. 

B. Notice by either party to the other shall be in writing and shall be deemed 
sufficiently given if served personally upon the other partj', or if sent by United 
States mail, postage prepaid, addressed to such party. 

C. This agreement may not be assigned by Sponsor, except that Sponsor (if 
not an advertising agency) may assign this agreement to a recognized advertising 
agency approved Ijy WOR. If this agreement is made by WOR wath more than 
one party, the obligations of such parties shall be joint and several. It embodies 
the entire understanding between the parties hereto and cannot be changed orally. 

In Witness Whereof, the parties hereto have executed this agreement at New 
York, New York, the day and yeai first above written. 

Bamberger Broadcasting Service, Incorporated, 
By CoGEL Thomas, 

J. Walter Thompson Company, 
By Linnea Nelson. 

Mr. MuNDT. What years are those? 

Mr. Stetler. They are this year, 1945. 

Mr. Bonner. "What kind of a contract is it? 

Mr. Adamson. It is a contract for the broadcasting of this con- 
troversial program, Mr. Bonner. I will have the witness explain his 
connection with it in just a moment. I thought I would put these 
in first, so as to give him something to talk about. 

Mr. Thomas. Let me look at them, please. [Mr. Adamson handed 
the documents to Mr. Thomas.] 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I ask that three sheets here showing 
the pay roll of this dramatic broadcast, which of course are not all 
inclusive, they are merely for the date of May 1 — the week of May 1 
and the week of May 8. 1 ask that the two sheets marked May 1, 
1945, be marked as one exhibit, "No. 7," and the single sheet dated 
May 8, be marked "exhibit No. 8." 

83079—46 4 



22 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

The Chairman. They will be so admitted. 

(The two sheets dated May 1, 1945, were marked "Exhibit 7A and 
7B"; the single sheet dated May 8, 1945, was marked "Exhibit 8.") 



Exhibit 7-A 

Client: Standard Brands, From New York — WOR 

Program: Soldiers With Coupons, on May 1, 1945 

To: Mr. Scott 

Mr. White 

Mi&s Spragle 

Miss Spalding 
Payments are to be made for the following charges in connection with the 
above program, and billed in due course: 



Ck. 

No. 


Performer 


Address of performer, payee 
(if other than performer) 


Wages 


foab 


Cue 


Federal 

income 

tax 




Pay- 
ment 





Tony Barrett, S. S. #109- 
10-6674. 


333 West 56 Street, New 
York, N. Y. 


$26. 40 


.26 




$5.80 


31311 


$20. 34 





Madeline Lee, S. S. #120- 
10-2207. 


333 West 57 Street, New 
York 19, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




.5.80 


31312 


20.34 


2 


Alice Reinheart, S. S. #114- 
01-2244. 


38 West 53 Street, New 
York 19, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




5.20 


31313 


20.94 


4 


Rojrer DeKoven, S. S. 
#063-05-1712. 


360 Central Park West, 
New York, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




4.60 


31314 


2L54 


2 


Martin Wolfson, S. S. 
#065-07-2953. 


69 Charles Street, New 
York 14, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




5.20 


31315 


20 94 





Santos Ortega, S. S. #127- 
09-5109. 


243-21 60th Avenue, Doug- 
laston, L. I., N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




5.80 


31316 


20 34 


3 


Sanford Bickart, S. S. 
#110-01-4733. 


330 East 58 Street, New 
York, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




4.90 


31317 


2L24 


1 


E. Vincent Connolly, Jr., 

S. S. #081-07-1280. 


136 East 36 Street, New 
York 16, N. Y. 


26.40 


 .26 




5.50 


31318 


20.64 





Peggy Weiner, S. S. #063- 
14-7217. 


222 West 83 Street, New 
York, N. Y. 


35.00 


.35 




7.73 


31319 


26.92 


3 


Kay Reed, S. S. #067-01- 
6578. 


225 East 79 Street, New 
York 21, N. Y. 


75.00 


.75 




15.83 


31320 


58.42 




321. 20 


3.18 




66.36 




251.66 



A. K. Spencer, 

A. K. Spencer. 

May 7, 1945. 

Do not charge agency commission. 



May Folio #47 



A. K. S. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 23 



Exhibit 7-B 
supplementary folio 



To: Mr. Scott 
Mr. White 
Miss Spragle 
Miss Spalding 

Client: Standard Krands, From New York — WOR 

Program: "Soldiers With Coupons," on May 1, 1945 

Payments are to be made for the following charges in connection with the above 
program, and billed in due course: 



Ck. 

No. 


Performer 


Address of performer, payee 
(if other than performer) 


Wages 


foab 


Cue 


Federal 

income 

tax 




Pay- 
ment 




Sound effects 


Bamberger Broadcasting 
Service, Inc., 1440 
Broadway, New York 
18, N. Y. 


$12. 25 








31310 


$12. 25 


• 











A. K. Spencer, 

A. K. Spencer. 

May 13, 1945. 

No agency commission. 



Mav Folio #48 



Exhibit 8 

Client: Standard Brands, From New York — WOR 

Program: "Soldiers With Coupons," on May 8, 1945 

To: Mr. Scott, Mr. White, Miss Spragle, Miss Spalding. 

Payments are to be made for the following charges in connection with the above 
program, and billed in due course: 



Ck. 

No. 


Performer 


Address of performer, payee 
(if other than performer) 


Wages 


FOAB 


Cue 


Federal 

income 

tax 




Pay- 
ment 


2 


Florence Halop (123-03- 
2182). 


179-36 Grand Central 
Parkway, .Tamaica, 
Long Island, N. Y. 


$^6.40 


$0.26 




$5.20 


31301 


$20. 94 


I 


Doris McWhirt (577-26- 

8779). 


47West 53d St., New York, 

N.Y. 


26.40 


.26 




5.50 


31302 


20.64 


a 


Daniel Ocko (102-01-0650). 


1779 81st St., Brooklyn 14, 

N.Y. 
32-41 83d St., Jackson 


26.40 


.26 




5.50 


31303 


20.64 


3 


Frank Butler (104-03-9285) 


26.40 


.26 




4.90 


31304 


21.24 






Heights, Long Island, 


















N.Y. 














4 


Gerald Vaughn (131-03- 
5133). 


61 West 9th St., New 
York, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




4.60 


31305 


21.54 





Santos Ortega (127-09- 
5109). 


243-21 60th Ave., Douglas- 
ton, Long Island, N. Y. 


26.40 


.26 




5.80 


31306 


20.34 


1 


Vincent Connolly, an- 
nouncer (081-07-1289). 


136 East 36th St., New 
York 16, N.Y. 


26.40 


.26 




5.50 


31307 


20.64 





Peggy Weiner, assistant 
director (063-14-7217) . 


222 West 83d St., New 
York, N.Y. 


35.00 


.35 




7.73 


31.308 


26.92 


3 


Kay Reed, organist (067- 
01-6578). 

Total 


225 East 79th St., New 
York 21, N. Y. 


75.00 


.75 




15.83 


31309 


58.42 




294.80 


2.92 




60.56 




231.32 











A. K. Spencer. 

May 16, 1945. 

No agency commLssion. 



May Folio No. 49 



24 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Bonner. Whose pay roll, OPA? 

Mr. Adamson. No; they are paid by Standard Brands. I wanted 
the witness to explain it in his own way, so we would not get into any 
confusion; therefore I hesitated to summarize the facts. I would 
rather the witnesses would tell their own story. 

The Chairman. I think that would be better. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler, would you be good enough to tell us 
now what the connection of your company is with the radio program 
called Soldiers With Coupons? 

Mr. Stetler. We have agreed to furnish the funds to make this 
program possible over station WOR in New York on Tuesday evening 
from 6:15 to 6:30 for a period of 13 weeks starting May 1 and ending, 
I believe, July 24. We pay for the time of the station and we have 
agreed to pay up to an average of $305 a week for the talent on the 
program. 

Mr. Adamson. So that you pay for the talent to put on the OPA 
dramatic programs? 

Mr. Stetler. In effect. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, it is a fact, is it not? 

Mr. Stetler. We furnish the funds; yes. We pay for it. 

Mr. Adamson. On this question of funds, is it not true that you 
pay the money to the advertising agency, the Thompson Co., and the 
Thompson Co. attempts — attends to disbursing it to the actors? 

Air. Stetler. In effect. They pay first and then bill us, and we 
pay them. 

Mr. Adamson. You pay the advertising agency, and they pay the 
actors? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And J. Walter Thompson is the big advertising 
agency that has been in that land of work for many years? 

Mr. Stetler^ Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. By the way, while you are on that subject, has 
Standard Brands, Inc., at this time any advertising contract with 
Benton & Bowles, either on the east coast or the west coast? 

Mr. Stetler. No. 

Mr. Adamson. None that you know of? 

Mr. Stetler. None. 

The Chairman. You would know if they had any? 

Mr. Stetler. I would know. 

Mr. Adamson. You very kindly supplied the committee with 
copies of several letters which I understand encompass the written 
arrangements on your financing of this program. I want to show you 
these copies and ask you if these are the copies [handing to witness]? 

The Witness. Yes ; they are. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer a letter dated 
April 12, signed by Tex Weiner to Mr. Don Stetler of Standard Brands, 
as exhibit No. 9. 

The Chairman. It will be received. 

(Copy of letter dated April 12, 1945, to Don Stetler from Tex 
Weiner marked "Exhibit 9.") 

Office of Price Administration, 

New York, N. Y., April 12, 194-5. 
Mr. Don Stetler, 

Standard Brands, Inc., Neiv York, N. Y. 

Dear Mr. Stetler: After careful study of all the time available by the var- 
ious stations, WEAF, WJZ, and WOR, I have taken prerogative to choose the 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 25 

time on station WOR, Tuesdays, 6:15 to 6:30 p. ni. This time will give us an 
excellent chance to achieve a rating plus a maximum audience. 

Therefore, I would appreciate if you would buy this time for Soldiers With 
Coupons, with the starting date as May 1, 1945. I would appreciate your con- 
firming the purchases of time so that I can go ahead and arrange the talent for 
the show and prejjare the scripts. 

With many thanks for your generosity and assistance. With best wishes. 
Sincerely, 

(Signed) Tex Weiner, 

Regional Radio Director, 

Mr. Adamson. A letter dated April 5, 1945, to Tex Weiner and 
signed by Mr. Stetler which will be No. 10. 

The Chairman. It will be received. 

(The copy of letter dated April 5, 1945, to Tex Weiner from D. B. 
Stetler was marked "Exhibit 10.") 

April 5, 1945. 
Mr. Tex Weixer, 

Regional Radio Director, 
^ Office of Price Administration, Aeiv York, A. Y. 

Dear Mr. Weiner: With regard to your letter of April 3, this is definite 
confirmation that we will furnish the funds for the 13 weeks broadcast of Soldiers 
with Coupons either on station WOR, WEAF, or WJZ. 

It is understood that the total cost as outlined in vour letter for this 13-week 
period will not exceed $10,215.40 if station WOR is used and $9,903.40 if either 
WJZ or WEAF is used. 

Please advise us as soon as you decide which station you will use. We will 
send you prior to the first broadcast and every week thereafter for a total of 13 
weeks, our check covering that week's broadcast. 

V\'e understand that you will give us a monthly accounting of the expenditures 
made and that an adjustment will be made of any unexpended balance at the 
conclusion of the 13-week period. 

Please advise us to whom the check would be made out. 

In connection with the credit line, there is no comma betw^een "Standard 
Brands" and "Incorporated." 

We understand that after each broadcast you will furnish us with a complete 
recording which we may keep for our files. 

It is understood that although we are furnishing the funds for this activity, 
we have no responsibility for the material which is used on the program or any 
contractual or employer relations with the talent. 

We are glad to be able to make this contribution to the war effort and wish 
j'ou all success with the programs. 



Yours very truly, 



Standard Brands Incorporated, 
D. B. Stetler, 

Advertising Director. 



Mr. Adamson. And a letter dated April 3, signed by Tex Weiner 
and addressed to Mr. Don Stetler, all showing the financial arrange- 
ments in detail in connection with this program as No. 11. 

The Chairman. It will be admitted. 

(Copy of letter dated April 3, 1945, to Mr. Don Stetler from Tex 
Weiner, marked "Exhibit 11.") 

Office of Price Administration, 

New York, N. Y., April 3, 1945. 
Mr. Don Stetler, 

Standard Brands Inc., New York, N. Y. 

Dear Mr. Stetler: Pursuant to our telephone conversation, I can now ad- 
vise you on the procedure of handling the moneys for the proposed .sponsorship 
of the OPA show, Soldiers with Coupons. 

Upon receipt of your first check, a special deposit will be made with the Treas- 
urer of the United States. These funds will be subject to withdrawal for the 
purpose of the radio broadcast, Soldiers with Coupons. All disbursements from 
this fun.d will be in accordance with regular Government procedure and this 



26 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

agency will render you an accounting monthly of the expenditures made. Any 
unexpended balance remaining will be returned to you at the conclusion of the 
13 weeks. 

As to the credit line, may I make the following suggestion, which, of course, 
can be altered by you in any manner or form you wish. 

Cue: (30 seconds.) 

Chord: 

Announcer: The OP A presents Soldiers With Coupons. This dramatic story 
of your OPA's fight to "hold the line" on pricps and to prevent inflation is made 
possible by Standards Brands, Inc. 

(Music: Theme: Sweeps in: Up and under.; 

Outlined below is the estimated cost of time and talent broken down. 



Time: 

Station WJZ _._ _ 

Station WEAF . 

Station WOE _... 

Station WABC _ 

Talent: 

Actors: 6, at $26.40 per show,._ _.. 

Announcer: 1, at $26.40 per show 

Production assistant: 1, at $35 per siiow 

Sound : 1 . at $7 per hour 

Music: 1, at $75 per show 



Estimated cost 



13 weelfs 



$5, 928. 00 
5, 928. 00 

6, 240. 00 



, 059. 20 
343. 20 
453. 00 
143.00 
975. 00 



1 week 



$379. 07 
379. 07 
480. 00 



158. 40 
26.40 
35.00 
11.00 
75.00 



This is also to inform you that the cost of the talent shall never exceed the sum 
of $305.80 per week, or $3,975.40 for the 13-week period. I am quite sure that 
the cost of the organist will be less. However, since I am putting a ceiling on the 
amount of money, I thought it would be advisable to ask for this amount for 
music. As you know, a good organist is paid about $75 per hour. 

Since the time is a stable thing each week (as the talent also) it will never be 
more than $6,240 for WOR (Mutual) for 13 weeks, and weeklv, $480. If we go on 
Station WJZ or WEAF, the station time for 13 weeks will be $5,928, or $379.07 
a week. 

Therefore, the weekly cost of the show will never run more than: WOR, 
$785.80; WEAF, $684.87; WJZ, $684.87. 

In the event that we use Station WABC, the time cost is approximately the 
same as WJZ. 

I hope this gives you the complete picture and if there are any necessary details 
that you desire, kindly inform me and I will try to supply them to you. 

With best wishes, I am, 
Cordially yours, 

Tex Weiner, 
Regional Radio Director. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler, I would like for you to look at this 
letter dated April 3 and tell us if that letter now correctly outlines 
the handling of these funds? 

Mr. Stetler. It does not. • 

Mr. Adamson. Will you tell us how the present conditions vary 
from the conditions outlined by Mr. Weiner in his letter of April 3? 

Mr. Stetler. They vary in two instances, first as to cost, and 
which is not important, because that is substantially the same. 

The second paragraph says: 

Upon receipt of your first check a special deposit will be made with the Treas- 
urer of the United States. These funds will be subject to withdrawal for the 
purpose of the radio broadcast. Soldiers with Coupons. All disbursements from 
this fund will be in accordance with regular Government procedure and this 
agency will render you an accounting monthly of the expenditures made. Any 
unexpended balance remaining will be returned to j'ou at the conclusion of the 
13 weeks. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 27 

As we drew near the first program, I was advised by Mr. Weiner 
that it was not practical to handle the funds in this way, so we told 
him we would be glad to buy the time through our advertising agency, 
J. Walker Thompson, and pay them when billed, and they would send 
a memorandum or bill to Thompson covered the agreed amount for 
talent; that we would pay that when billed, rather than sending a 
check direct to the OPA. 

Mr. Adamson. Would you mind telling the committee how this 
matter first arose? Who initiated it? Who brought the idea to you, 
or did you originate the idea? 

Mr. Stetler. The idea of the program, our sponsoring the program? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes. I see here in one of these exhibits a letter from 
Mr. Weiner to you dated April 12, which is rather vague on that 
point. The date, of course, is after the letter concerning the finances, 
so it could not be the first letter. 

Mr. Stetler. May I see it? 

(Mr. Adamson hands letter to Mr. Stetler.) 

Mr. Thomas. April 12 of what year? 

Mr. Adamson. 1945, right now. 

Mr. Thomas. Would you develop how the program originated? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes; would you go ahead in your own way and tell 
us how this thing originated in your department. 

Mr. Stetler. Around the middle of February, when I was out of 
town — that is, February of this year — Tex Weiner got in touch with 
our company and wondered whether we would be willing to put up' 
the funds so that this OPA program. Soldiers With Coupons, which 
was then broadcast over a small New York station, might be moved 
to a larger New York station. He said that Mr. Woolley felt that it 
was doing a constructive job and wanted to reach a larger audience. 
It was discussed with our several executives and checked with Mr. 
Woolley who confirmed this fact. 

Around the latter part of March, the last few days of March, I 
got in touch with Mr. W^oolley and told him it looked as though we 
would go ahead, and asked him who would work out the details and 
give us more mformation about the technicalities involved. He said 
that Mr. Weiner would. So Mr. Weiner came to my office and told 
me that the program had been on station WNEW since last fall; 
that it seemed to be doing a good job, but of course had a limited 
audience over WNEW, and they would like to move to one of the 
larger stations, W^OR, WGZ, or WEAF. I gave that information to 
our management. We decided that we would go ahead, and we, in 
the meantime, had received this letter from Mr. Weiner confirming 
the cost and how the payments would be made. 

Mr. Thomas. How long have you known Mr. Weiner? 

Mr. Stetler. I met him for the first time the latter part of March. 

Mr. Thomas. Who in your company did he see at the time you were 
out of town? 

Mr. Stetler. He contacted Mr. Varney, who is in our Fleisch- 
mann's division, our bakery, hotel, and restaurant division. 

Mr. Thomas. Has he known Mr. Varney for some time? 

Mr. Stetler. I believe so. 

Mr. Thomas. Was Mr. Weiner at one time employed by Standard 
Brands, Inc.? 

Mr. Stetler. Not to my knowledge. 



28 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. He was employed by Mr. Phillip Lord at one time, 
was he not, one of your directors and officers? 

Mr. Stetler. Not to the best of my knowledge. Phil Lord said he 
had never heard the name before. However, if I may clear that up, 
there are two Phillip Lords, one who is connected with radio, a great 
many radio programs, and Phillip Lord who is vice president and 
director of our company. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, it might be the other Phillip Lord. 

Mr. Stetler. I am confident it is not our Phillip Lord. 

Mr. Adamson. I wantexl to keep that clear about your company. 

Mr. Stetler. I am confident it was not our Phillip Lord. 

Mr. Adamson. You do not think it was that one? 

Mr. Stetler. No, sir. 

Mr. Mencher. Who finally selected WOR, your people, Thompson, 
or Weiner? 

Mr. Stetler. We ga\«e him the option of selecting whatever station 
he could get the best time on, and he checked around. Time was not 
available on some of them but he was able to get in the time 6:15 to 
6:30 on WOR, one of the good New York stations. 

Mr. Adamson. Is it true that at the time this matter was brought 
to your company, this program was being put on exclusively then by 
and at the expense of OPA over WNEW? 

Mr. Stetler. I was given to understand that. I don't know the 
fact — I was given to understand that there was no charge for the time; 
that the time was donated by WNEW, and that mudi of the talent 
was contributed. I do not know the facts on that, but that was my 
impression. 

Mr. Adamson. But it was purely an OPA program, and the radio 
station WNEW, gave the time free? 

Mr. Stetler. I was so advised. 

Mr. Adamson. And as a matter of fact, most of the radio stations 
do give OPA free time for their announcements; is that true? 

Mr. Stetler. I could not say. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, it came to you, as I understand your testi- 
mony, what they wanted to do was to get on a larger radio station, so 
as to reach out beyond the Now York region; is that true? 

Mr. Stetler. Not necessarily. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, WNEW covers the New York area pretty well? 

Mr. Stetler. I don't doubt that WNEW has as many listeners 
in New York as WOR. 

Mr. Adamson. But WOR, as a matter of your own knowledge in 
advertising, is a much longer, stronger station than WNEW? 

Mr. Stetler. Certainly. 

Mr. Adamson. And the range of its program is far greater than that 
of WNEW? 

Mr. Stetler. I could not say. It is my impression that it is a more 
powerful station and reaches further and reaches more people. 

Mr. Adamson. As a man of many years experience in advertising 
business, you are quite sure of that? 

Mr. Stetler. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. And WOR reaches out beyond the New York 
region that we now refer to as the OPA region ; is that not true? 

Mr. Stetler. I do not want to speak for the New York region of 
OPA. I have no idea. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 29 

Mr. Adamson. After you pay these actors and pay the radio station 
for time, do you know what then becomes of the program? Is there a 
transcription made subsequently, and do you know what becomes of 
that? 

Mr. Stetler. No; I have read in the paper that it is sent out to 
other stations and broadcast, but I checked it with JMr. Weiner the 
other day and he said that our name did not go out in connection with 
that. 

Mr. Adamson. I did not say your name went out with it, Mr. 
Stetler. I just wanted to know what you know about what happened 
to the program. 

Mr. Stetler. I know nothing about it. 

Mr. Adamson. Especially, you know nothing about it? 

Mr. Stetler. I know absolutely nothing about it. 

Mr. Adamson. So far as you know, your name is attached only to 
the New York broadcast over WOR? 

Mr, Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. Adaaison. And your payment for the time and the cast is in 
return for the commercial announcement attaching the name of 
Standard Brands to the program? 

Mr. Stetler. Will you state that again? ^ 

Mr. Adamson. Your payments, your expense incurred in connec- 
tion with this program, in substance, is compensation for including 
your name both in the opening and closing of the program, in connec- 
tion with the OPA program? 

Mr. Stetler. No, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, what is it for, Mr. Stetler? 

Mr. Stetler. We regard this as support of a public service in war- 
time, comparable to a great many things that we have done. We 
are not putting it on for the advertising value involved. We are 
not interested in having our name appear at the beginning and end, 
but that is essential when you pay for something. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Weiner's letter to you states in part: 

The OPA presents Soldiers with Coupons. This dramatic story of your OPA's 
fight to hold the line on prices and to prevent inflation is made possible by Standard 
Brands, Inc. 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And Mr. Weiner then says: 

As to the credit line, may I make the following suggestion, which, of course, 
can be also read by you in any manner or form you wish. 

So that, so far as the commercial end of it is concerned, it is 
under your control? 

Mr. Stetler. I cannot admit that there is any commercial part to 
it. We simply take a credit line at the begimiing and at the end, 
because that is required by the radio station. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, in view of the fact that the radio station gives 
the time free, Mr. Stetler, what would be the purpose of your paying 
the radio station to put it on? 

Mr. Stetler. Well, I can only make a conjecture in that interest, 
and that is that they were not able to obtain time free from the larger 
stations and had to pay for it. 

Mr. Adamson. Would you mind telling the committee that — what 
products your company sells or distributes? 

83079—46 5 



30 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

The Chairman. What is the point of that? 

Mr. Adamson. I think the record ought to show what type of busi- 
ness they are in, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. That has already been explained for the record. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, may he just state the principal things? 

The Chairman. I see no point in it, but if he wants to say — I don't 
see what difference it makes whether he sells coffee or shoe polish. 

Mr. Thomas. I should think he would be glad to state. 

The Chairman. If he wants to state, I will be glad to have him 
do so. 

Mr. Stetler. You are perfectly right, because there are 357 
articles, Chase & Sanborn's coffee; Fleischmann's yeast; Royal 
Baker's gelatins; Tenderleaf tea and other food products. 

Mr. Adamson. Might we summarize it quickly by saying that the 
products you sell, or that you distribute, are the articles which are 
sold at retail in thousands of stores every day to the average man in 
the street? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. You don't manufacture machinery or do contracting 
work or anything of that nature? Your sole interest is in distributing 
through retail storegj^ is that correct? 

Mr. Stetler. Not exactly, but in effect, yes. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, I would like to know how it varies, 

Mr. Stetler. Well, we sell Fleischmann's yeast to bakers; we sell 
products to hotels and restaurants which are not sold through retail 
outlets. 

Mr. Adamson. You sell that on a wholesale basis? 

Mr. Stetler. We sell dii-ect to them. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, do you keep recordings of these programs? 

Mr. Stetler. Recordings are sent to us on Wednesday morning 
following each broadcast. 

Mr. Adamson. And do those recordings carry your name at the 
opening and closing of the program? 

Mr. Stetler. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Adamson. So that is a separate recording from the ones we 
talked about a while ago, is that correct? 

Mr. Stetler. If others are made. 

Mr. Adamson. This one has your name on it, also? 

Mr. Stetler. Certainly. 

Mr. Adamson. I have no further questions of Mr. Stetler. 

The Chairman. Are there any questions by the committee? 

Mr. Landis. I would like to know, from someone who is familiar 
with the program of these performances who is Peggy Weiner, assist- 
ant director? 

Mr. Stetler. I suppose she is Tex's wife. He told me his wife 
was assistant producer on the show, $35 a week. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Stetler, do you examine the script before the 
broadcast is made? 

Mr. Stetler. No, sir; we do not. 

Mr. Thomas. You just accept the script, assuming that it is all 
right. 

Mr. Stetler. We were advised when we made the arrangement 
that each script was O. K.'d in Washington by OWI and knowing 
that, and knowing Mr. Woolley and knowing also that we have 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 31 

nothing to sell in this program except the hope of doing a patriotic 
duty, we were not interested in the ceAsorship of the programs or 
looking at them in advance. We do listen to them on the air lines 
or read the script as broadcast after each program. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you made any complaint about the script? 

Mr. Stetler. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Did you learn at any time that OWI had complained 
about the script used by Mr. Weiner. 

Mr. Stetler. I have not; not the ones that we sponsored. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you heard at any time that they had com- 
plained about the scripts used by Mr. Weiner? 

Mr. Stetler. I have not. 

The Chairman. There was no complaint about the scripts on the 
programs that you sponsored? 

Mr. Stetler. I am confident that there was not. That is deter- 
minable from the date of the script. 

The Chairman. If, upon examination of the script after you 
broadcast, you were satisfied that they were of a subversive nature, 
would you have remonstrated with Mr. Weiner or the OPA? 

Mr. Stetler. Of course we would. 

The Chairman. And you are not of the opinion that there has 
been anything subversive broadcast on these programs? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right, since our sponsorship of them, which 
was May 1, 1945. 

Mr. Adamson. Your sponsorship is quite recent, is it not? 

Mr. Stetler. May 1, 1945. 

Mr. Adamson. In answering Congressman Thomas, I would like 
to call attention, Mr. Chairman, to a short paragraph here in the 
letter of April 5 written by Mr. Stetler to Mr. Weiner. He says: 

It is understood that, although we are fumishing^the funds for this activity, 
we have no responsibihty for the material which is used on the program or any 
contractual or employer relation with it. 

So that was your understanding, that you were to have nothing 
to do with the substance of the program. You were only interested 
in the commercial, in the opening and the closing? 

Mr. Stetler. I am sorry I cannot call it a "commercial" but we 
had no censorship over the program at all. 

Mr. Adamson. You do not attempt to commercialize or exercise 
any censorship at all? 

Mr. Stetler. We have not, up to this time. 

Mr. Rankin. Did you hear all these broadcasts? Did you listen in? 

Mr. Stetler. I heard all but the one last night and the one 2 
weeks ago. 

Mr. Rankin. You heard the ones that this man had been making 
before you took it? 

Mr. Stetler. I never heard it before we took it on. 

Mr. Rankin. If you had known of or had been convinced that he 
was broadcasting subversive propaganda, would you have continued 
your connection with him? 

Mr. Stetler. You mean would we have made our original contract.? 

Mr. Rankin, \^'ould you have made the original contract? 

Mr.. Stetler. We would have not touched it with a 10-foot pole. 

Mr. Rankin. Then if you are convinced now that he is broad- 
casting subversive programs, propaganda, you would sever your 
connection with him? 



32 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Bonner. He testified he knows lie is not. 

Mr. Rankin. I am talking, though, if you find out that this propa- 
ganda that he is broadcasting is subversive, I want to know if he 
would sever his connection and cancel the contract? 

Mr. Stetler. That would certainly be our inclination, subject to 
our right to cancel the contract. 

Mr. Rankin. Of course, fraud vitiates everything and if he did not 
mform you that he was going to broadcast subversive propaganda 
and then proceeded to do so on your advertising program, then you 
would be perfectly justified in legally, and certainly morally, can- 
celing your contract with it. 

Mr. Stetler. That is our position. 

Mr. Rankin. In other words, you have no desire to do anything 
to further subversive propaganda in this country? 

Mr. Stetler. No, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. May I ask just one more question to clear up the 
date? Approximately what date did you take over supervision of 
the advertising department from Mr. Woolley? 

Mr. Stetler. I believe it was in 1939. 

Mr. Adamson. As I understand it, Mr. Woolley retired; is that 
correct? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. As an executive. Now, you don't pay Tex Weiner 
anything at all, do you? 

Mr. Stetler. Not according to the record. 

Mr. Adamson. Not according to the record? 

Mr. Stetler. No; we do not pay him anythiDg. 

Mr. Adamson. So far as you know, your company does not pay 
Tex Weiner anything? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. I understand he does not get any- 
thing out of it. He is an employee of OPA. 

Mr. Adamson. He is a Government employee who writes radio 
script for your place? 

Mr. Stetler. That is what it says on the script. 

Mr. MuNDT. Two questions, Mr. Chairman. This pay roll here 
is one that you pay, is it not? 

Mr. Stetler. No, sh; that is the record from the advertising 
agency. We have never seen one of those before. They simply 
gave them to me because it was a copy of what they gave to Mr. 
Adamson. 

Mr. MuNDT. You did provide the money that distributed this? 

Mr. Stetler. Yes. su\ 

Mr. MuNDT. Part of it goes to Tex Weiner's wife? 

Mr. Stetler. Yes. 

Mr. MuNDT. You do not pay Tex Weiner? You pay his wife? 

Mr. Stetler. Yes; we pay his wife. 

Mr. Adamson. Would you let us have a copy of the bills? Have 
you brought them along? 

Mr. Stetler. Certainly. 

Mr. Rankin. Let me ask counsel, has this list of names been in- 
serted in the record? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir; those are exhibits. The chairman has 
already admitted them. I did not want to string the hearing out by 
going into them in great detail because they are put in the record and 
the committee can study them at their leisure. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 33 

Mr. MuNDT. I sim])lv wanted the record to show that the Tex 
Weiner family is bein<;' paid. 

Mr. Adamson. I think that is true. 

Mr. MuNDT. It is not exactly true that Tex Weiner is not being 
paid, as long as the family is being paid. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Stetler's organization has been extremely co- 
operative in this matter, and I am merely trj^ing to push along and 
let him go if he wants to go. 

Air. Stetler. Here is a carbon copy of J. Walter Thompson's bill 
for time. That is WOR. These are not Thompson's bills but are 
copies of his bills to us covering talent, and I believe will check with 
those photostatic records you have. 

Mr. MuNDT. One other question, Mr. Stetler. Ifou have told us 
several times that you did not want these programs considered as 
commercial? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. MuNDT. You felt they had no advertising value whatsoever. 
As a matter of fact, in your accounting set-up I presume these broad- 
casts are charged to advertising, are they not? 

Mr. Stetler. Yes; we charge them to advertising, miscellaneous. 

Mr. Adamson. So that the money that you invest in this program is 
handled as routine, usual expense of the company? 

Mr. Stetler. That is right. 

Mr. Robinson. Has Tex Weiner's wife appeared on the programs 
you have heard recorded? 

Mr. Stetler. I could not say. I do not know her voice. I assume 
not. They announce at the end of each program the actors who have 
appeared, and I have not heard of her. 

Air. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, have you any further questions of 
the witness? 

The Chairman. Any further questions? If not, we thank you, 
Mr. Stetler. 

Mr. Adamson. I would like to call Mr. Potter. He is Mr. Bowles' 
alter ego. 

The Chairman. Will you be sworn, Mr. Potter? 

TESTIMONY OF ZENAS I. POTTER, WARDMAN PARK HOTEL, 
WASHINGTON, D. C, DIRECTOR OF CONGRESSIONAL INFORMA- 
TION, OFFICE OF PRICE ADMINISTRATION 

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) 

Mr. Adamson. Will you give your home address? 

Mr. Potter. Zeras L. Potter. Home address, Wardman Park 
Hotel. 

Mr. Adamson. What is your title, officially? 

Mr. Potter. My title is Director of the Office — Director of Con- 
gressional Information, OPA. 

Mr. Adamson. That is a big office. You heard Air. Bowles' testi- 
mony to the effect that he did not have time to familiarize himself 
with all the details of the OPA, and that you were one of the authorized 
assistants? 

Air. Potter. I really am Air. Bowles' assistant on congressional 
matters, and we get a good many letters and inquiries from Congi-ess, 
going into all branches of the office. 



34 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. Are you successful in answering all the letters that — 
all the questions a Congressman asks? 

Mr. Potter. Well, sir, I would not make sure that I have not 
answered all of them successfully, but at least we try. 

Mr. Adamson. I also want to say, gentlemen, that Mr. Potter, 
down in the OPA office, has been very kind and cooperative in this 
investigation, and he has peraiitted our investigators to see all of his 
files — that is, all that he knew about, I suppose — and our investi- 
gators have been permitted to talk to the employees in the office con- 
cerning this matter fully. I appreciate that much. It has shortened 
our work considerably. 

Mr. Potter. We have no secrets from Congress. 

Mr. Adamson. I am glad to hear that. Now, Mr. Potter, can you 
tell us the mechanical set-up in your office for handling OPA radio 
broadcasts, and what supervisory machinery you have in the Wash- 
ington office? 

Mr. Potter. Generally speaking, our radio programs and our other 
informational activities are not supervised in Washington save in a 
very general way. This radio program in the regional office of New 
York came down to Washington, I understand, for the reason that two 
OWI districts were covered by the broadcasting, and OWI therefore, 
preferred to hear it in Washington rather than in their own district; 
otherwise, we would probably not have gotten into it to any extent in 
Washington, but because OWI did make that request, the program 
scripts were sent down to W ashington and they were reviewed by the 
Radio Branch in our information department that went over the 
scripts. 

Mr. Adamson. How many people are now assigned to that work in 
the Washington office; that is, radio editorial work, or censorship, 
whatever you want to call it, and state exactly — — 

Mr. Potter. I don't know exactly, but I think maybe two or three 
people, clerical work. 

Mr. Adamson. Are all radio scripts from all over the United States 
sent in to you, that is, from all your regional offices? 

Mr. Potter. No, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, that condition exists only with regard to the 
New York office? 

Mr. Potter. I will say that we would not be in this show in Wash- 
ington were it not for the fact that OWI has districts around the coun- 
try, and things are cleared with them, as I understand it, in the dis- 
tricts. In this case our district or our region, rather, included a couple 
of OWI offices, so that because of that, OWI wanted to come into 
Washington, and this is how we happened to get into the thing. 

Air. Adamson. You mean mlo your office in Washington, or into 
the OWI office here? 

Mr. Potter. It also came — we cleared them here because OWI 
wanted to clear them here. 

Mr. Adamson. So they come into both offices here, both OWI and 
OPA? 

Mr. Potter. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. I wonder if you could tell us very briefly what you 
consider to be the New York region? How big is it? 

Mr. Potter. Well, Mr. Woolley can tell you exactly. It consists 
of five States — New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, 
Delaware, and the District of Columbia. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 35 

Mr. Adamson. Then Washington is in the region? 

Mr. Potter. Oh, yes. But the fact that Washington is in a region 
is not a reason for our super vismg that region, any more than any 
other region. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, suppose you have a radio director, say, in 
Chicago, writing radio scripts for OPA; where would his script be 
shipped? 

Mr. Potter. Into the regional ofhce and with the OWI office in 
that area. 

Mr. Adamson. And the OWI office in the region which covers that 
would get that from your office out there? 

Mr. Potter. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Adamson. Sq that the regional director really would be free 
to write what he chose. He would be free to write it, so long as he — 
the regional dii'ector — agreed with him? 

Mr. Potter. Ordinarily. Of course, if we got complaints, we 
might check into the thing with the regional administrator. 

Mr. Adamson. But, due to the peculiar geographical set-up here 
in the field, the script happens to come into your office? 

Mr. Potter. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Adamson. That is how you know about them first-hand in the 
Washington office? 

Mr. Potter. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. Potter, can you tell us whether or not 
a dramatic program has been authorized or permitted by any of the 
regional OPA offices, other than the New York region? 

Air. Potter. This is the only dramatic program, I understand, 
that we are putting on at the present time. I would not swear that 
some have not been put on some time, somewhere. They probably 
have. 

Mr. Adamson. Don't go beyond your own knowledge. 

Mr. Potter. No; it is my understanding — I am told that this is 
the only dramatic program that is being put on at the present tune. 

Mr. Adamson. And is it not true that requests have been made by 
your subordinates in this radio field for permission to put on such 
programs elsewhere, and they have been refused? 

Mr. Potter. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Adamson. You do not know that they have asked? 

Mr. Potter. Not to my knowledge, 

Mr. Thomas. Who would know that? 

Mr. Potter. Well, I do not know. The head of our Radio Depart- 
ment probably would be better informed than I would be, but I am 
sure we have no prejudice against dramatic shows as such. 

Mr. Thomas. Let us get down to brass tacks. Who is the head of 
the Radio Section? 

Mr. Potter. Miss Daubenspeck. 

Mr. Thomas. Is she here now? 

Mr. Potter. No. 

Mr. Adamson. Would it be convenient for you to let her come up 
tomorrow morning? 

Mr. Potter. I think so. 

Mr. Adamson. Who else would 'know about it? 

Mr. Potter. Well, Mr. Little might, who is over here; Mr. Herbert 
Little. 



36 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. Wliat is his title? 

Mr. Potter. I think head of the Press Department, or something of 
that kind. I do not know his exact title. 

Mr. Adamson. Wlio has jurisdiction of these matters over in OWI? 

Mr. Potter. I do not know. 

Mr. Adamson. But these scripts are criticized by OWI? 

Mr. Potter. They have been criticized by OWI, and they pass all 
Government information programs, checking them with other depart- 
ments and making sure that they comply with the rules. 

Mr. Thomas. I wish you would check all the criticism by OWI. 
I want to know what it was, when it happened, whether it was verbal 
criticism, or whether it was in writing. If it was in writing, we want 
to see it. 

Mr. Adamson. I want to stay strictly within the knowledge of this 
witness, though, and I will ask him if he knows if these programs have 
been severely criticized from time to time by OWI? 

Mr. Potter. No, I do not think so. 

Mr. Adamson. When you say — when I say "these programs," 
please do not limit it to May 1 because the May 1 programs are too 
recent. I mean going back, say, over a period of 10 months or a year. 

Mr. Potter. I think that OWI — I laiow I have looked over the 
scripts and commented on them, and OWI and our national Office, 
from time to time have made suggestions with regard to these pro- 
grams. I think that this letter from Elmer Davis, however, to Mr. 
Bowles is very much misunderstood. The objection of Mr. Davis 
was, not to the program, but to the fact that it did not get over to 
their Office in time to be cleared, and it went on the air without their 
clearance. 

Mr. Adamson. How could he criticize the program if he never got a 
chance to see it? 

Mr. Potter. The reason I say I don't think OWI criticized the 
program is that the same program 2 weeks later was cleared by OWI 
for being put on transcription for other stations. 

Mr. Adamson. On that point, too, you heard Mr. Stetler testify? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And can you enlighten us now about these tran- 
scriptions that are subsequently made? What sort of machinery do 
you have for distribution of this program? Is it sent around to various 
places? Can 3^ou tell the committee about that? 

Mr. Potter. I understand that that program has been presented 
to the various radio stations throughout the district, and I believe 
that approximately 30 stations are regularly broadcasting that pro- 
gram at present, we providing the transcription. 

Mr. Adamson. OPA pays for those transcriptions? 

Mr. Potter. That is my understanding, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And up until last month that ran five or six hundred 
dollars a month? 

Mr. Potter. It has been running about $600 a month. 

Mr. Adamson. Within the last month or so the usage by the stations 
has dropped off considerably? 

Mr. Potter. I understand not. At the time about 30 stations 
were still using the program. 

Mr. Adamson. Is it not true that several months ago your expense 
for recordings was about $600, but your last payment was $308? 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 37 

Mr. Potter. I think so; but I think there must have been some 
partial bilHng entered into that month, and the whole thing did not 
get into that month, because I am informed that approximately 30 
stations are still broadcasting the program. 

Mr. Adamson. You had 55 at one time, did you not? 

Mr. Potter. I don't think so. Mr. Woolley could give you better 
information on that than I. 

Mr. Adajmsox. How far west do you send those transcriptions? 

Mr. Potter. I think that at present those programs are mainly 
broadcast in our region, region 2, the New York region. The scripts 
have gone out, around the country, I believe. I understand that the 
shows, some of them, have been put on certain stations out of the 
Denver office. 

Mr. Adamson. Then Mr. Weiner is the only radio director who is 
permitted to put on a dramatic program, but you then send his 
program out all over the comitry. Is that true, Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. I would say this, that I think the word, "permitted" 
is a mistake. 

Mr. Adamson. He is the only one doing it? 

Mr. Potter. He is the only one at the present time putting a di'a- 
matic program out, according to my understandmg, and his scripts 
have been sent out around the country, and some of them are being 
used in the Denver region. 

Mr. Adamson. So that really Mr. Weiner is providing this dramatic 
program for the other regions, as well as New York? 

Mr. Potter. We very generally, when one region does something 
that is apparently successful, send that around to the other regional 
directors. If they see sometliing useful in it, they take it up and 
make use of it. That is the only extent to which Mr. Weiner 's pro- 
gi'am is being used in the other areas. 

Air. Adamson. Well, do the radio stations ask for these transcrip- 
tions themselves, or are they requested by the regional director out 
in these other regions? 

Mr. Potter. I could not tell you that. I think you had better 
ask Mr. Woolley that, because he has had the largest experience with 
stations using the recordings. 

Mr. Thomas. I hope that when we come to hear Mr. Woolley he 
will not pass it on to somebody else, because we want to get the facts. 

Mr. Potter. I am sure Mr. Woolley will be very glad to answer 
what he knows. 

You see, the difficulty is, as Mr. Bowles testified, this is the job of 
the New York regional office primarily, and we have not informed 
ourselves anything about it in Washington except incidentally; con- 
sequently, I am not the expert witness on what has been done in New 
York. Air. Woolley should be able to answer those questions. 

Mr. Adamson. Air. Potter, I tried to restrict my questions to your 
knowledge, but I do not want to take up your time unnecessarily, 
but when this program goes out to various other parts of the country, 
don't you tliiiik it is a matter of which your Office should have full 
knowledge? 

Mr. Potter. I would like to ask Mr. Mencher, Are we shipping 
the transcriptions anywhere? 

Mr. Mencsher. Not outside. 

83079 — 46 6 



38 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 



Mr. Potter, We are not shipping any transcriptions from outside. 
They are picking up scripts and making use of them. That is all. 

Mr. Adamson. I don't want to disagree with you too violently, 
but what difference does it make whether you send a mechanical 
transcription or send a script which is used in the other regions? I 
would like to have you explain that distinction to us. 

Mr. Potter. Well, only this — it does not make any particular 
difference; the only thing is that we never have endeavored as a 
national program, to pick up Mr. Weiner's program and spread it all 
over the country. We have provided information about it — about 
the scripts to the other regional offices, and if they see anything in 
it they may try to make use of it. 

Mr. Thomas. Right on that point would you tell the committee 
just how you have advised the other offices about this? 

Mr. PoTTFR. I would be very glad to get the information for you 
and enter it in the record. 

Mr. Thomas. You have not got any correspondence there between 
you and the other offices? 

Mr. Potter. No; I have not now. 

Mr. Adamson. As long as you are looldng that up, Mr. Potter, will 
you also be good enough to give us a list of the radio stations that use 
a mechanical transcription, say during the month of May? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Woolley, I am sure, will be glad to answer that. 
I can do it, now, if you want me to, I guess. 

Mr. Adamson. Let me request^ — let me complete my request of 
you. Also I should like to have a list of the places to which you sent 
the script, as distinguished from the mechanical recording. 

Mr. Potter. Do you want me to read these statements? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes; if you will do that. 

Mr. Potter. WFBG, Altoona, Pa. 

The Chairman. How many are there? 

Mr. Potter. There are approximately 30. 

The Chairman. Let us have them entered in the record without 
reading. 

Mr. Potter. I will say they are all in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, 
New York State, and Washington, D. C. 

The Chairman. Will you let the stenographer take this paper over- 
night? 

Mr. Potter. All right. 

(The list referred to follows:) 

October 4, 19U— Soldiers With Coupons— OP A Show 6, 1211 



Mailing 


Record 


charge 


charge 


$0. 36 


$6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6. .50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 


.36 


6.50 



Burgess OPA, Wilmington, Del 

WFBD, Altoona, Pa 

WJAC, Jo'mstown, Pa 

WCED. Dubois. Pa 

WCAM, Camden, N.J 

WSNJ, Rridgeton, N. J. 

WBAX. Wilkes-Barre, Pa 

AVBRE, Wilk-cs-Barre, Pa 

WHB, Harrlsburg, Pa 

WIP, Philadelphia, Pa 

WHAT, Philadelphia, Pa 

WDAS, Philadelphia, Pa 

WIBG, Philadelphia, Pa 

WTEL, Philadelphia, Pa 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 39 
October 4, 1944 — Soldiers With Coupons — OPA Show 6, 1211 — Continued 



Mailing 
charge 



Record 
charge 



WSAN, Allentown, Pa 

WHOM, Now York, N. Y 

WRAW, Reading, Pa. 

Weiner, OPA, New York, N. Y. (3). 

WBAB, Atlantic City, N. J. — 

WWDC, Washington, D. C 

WSBA, York, Pa 

WABY, Albany, N. Y 

WKNY, Kingston, N. Y 

WSNY, Schenectady, N. Y 

WNBZ, Saranac Lake, N. Y 

WKBW, Buffalo, N.Y 

WGR, Buffalo, N. Y 



29 packages, at 20 cents. 
Less 40 percent 



Total. 



$0.36 
.00 
.36 
.00 
.36 
.36 
.36 
.36 
.36 
.36 
.36 
.36 
.36 



9.00 
5.80 



14.80 



$6.50 
6.50 
6.50 

19.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 
6.50 



188.50 
75.40 



113.10 
14.80 



127. 90 



Mr. Thomas. What is the station in Washington, D. C? 

Mr. Potter. WWDC. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we now adjourn until 
10 o'clock tomorrow morning. 

The Chairman. Let us proceed for awhUe now. 

Mr. Thomas. How much more have you got from Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Adamson. Five or ten minutes. 

The Chairman. Let us proceed with Mr. Potter and then decide 
what to do. 

Mr. Potter. I will be glad to enter into the record, Mr, Adamson, 
the correspondence we had with the other regional officers. 

Mr. Adamson. May we receive that as one exhibit, Mr. Chairman? 
If you will be good enough to clip all the correspondence together, 
we will enter that m the record as exhibit 12. 

The Chairman. Very well. 

(The correspondence referred to, to be furnished by Mr. Potter 
was given the number exhibit No. 12.) 

Mr. Adamson. When Mr. Potter sends it in, .we wUl have a place 
for it in the record. 

Now, when the transcriptions go out, Mr. Potter, do those tran- 
scriptions include the name of Standard Brands? 

Air. Potter. I understand not, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. So that the play goes out with merely the opening 
and closing of the OPA? Is that correct? 

Mr. Potter. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. And they are doing very well, you say, around in 
these stations. 

Mr. Potter. I have no knowledge of how well they are doing. 

Mr. Adamson. Would you continue to send them out if they were 
not doing so well? 

Mr. Potter. We would not send them out if they w^ere not asked 
for. 

Mr. Adamson. And you mean by the station, not by the regional 
officials of the OPA? 



40 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr, Potter. I am not familiar, and I don't believe anyone in the 
Wa^ington office is familiar with the relationship of the OPA local 
people in each of these areas and this radio station. That all comes 
under the supervision of Mr. WooUey. I am sure he can provide you 
with such information as we have. We don't know in the Washington 
office what the relationship is between the stations and any efforts 
on the part of OPA to have those programs presented. 

Mr. Adamson. As I understand it, the radio station at this time 
asks for them, and they run these plays on their own time and without 
compensation from you or anyone else? 

Mr. Potter. I do not think we laiow what happens to them in the 
Washington office. All that we know is that they go out to these 
stations. Mr. Woolley may be able to supply some additional in- 
formation. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, in the case of the scripts themselves, when 
you send them out, do you laiow what becomes of them when they 
go outside of this region No. 2? I believe this is No. 2, is it not? 

Mr. Potter. No. 2, New York. 

Mr. Adamson. When those scripts go outside of Mr. Woolley's 
region, do you know who they go to, and what is done with them? 

Mr. Potter. They go to our regional office, and, as Mr. Bowles 
told you this morning, we do not attempt to dictate the information 
program of these regional offices. That is left very largely in the 
hands of the regional administration. If he sees some use to be made 
of it, he uses it; if he doesn't, he just discards it. 

Mr. Adamson. Is the program now sponsored by Standard Brands 
over WOR the only program of which you have knowledge, which is 
paid for both with regard to the talent and the time, by an inde- 
pendent advertiser not connected with the Government in any way? 

Mr. Potter. I would like to answer that in this way, if I may: 
There was organized early in the war, by the National Association of 
National Advertisers, the American Association of Advertising Agen- 
cies, the American Newspaper Publishers Association, the Radio 
Broadcasters National Organization, of which I do not know the name, 
and I believe, by the Associated Business Press, what was called the 
Advertising War Council, the purpose of which was to give the 
Government aid in financing the presentation to the American people 
of various war programs. I know that the Treasury Department has 
made very widespread use of that service. I know the War Produc- 
tion Board has made very widespread use of that service. I don't 
know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent by 
advertisers in support of the scrap drive. I suppose millions of 
dollars have been spent by the advertisers in support of various war 
programs. The sponsoring of this program by Standard Brands is 
only a very small part of something that has been a very big thing 
during the period of the war. We have had, I suppose, hundreds of 
thousands of dollars spent by these various grocers of the country in 
support of our consumer-grocer program. This is only one small 
instance of the total amount of money spent by private business in 
support of OPA programs, and so far as the radio program, a dramatic 
radio program, is concerned, I know of none other being sponsored in 
the country. 

Mr. Adamson. That is a point I am trying to make, Mr. Potter. 
It took us a long time to get it. The only one that you know of is in 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 41 

the hands of Mr. Tex Weiner, in New York, and it is distributed very 
widely to the rest of the country, not restricted to region 2, of which 
Mr. Weiner is the radio director? 

Mr. Potter. No transcriptions, I understand, are going outside 
of region 2. 

Mr. Thomas. But the scripts are? Why do you make a distinc- 
tion between scripts and transcriptions? 

Mr. Potter. Simply this; if we sent a transcript — if we sent out 
a script, they may or may not use it. If they order a transcription, 
you are pretty certain the program is going on. 

Mr. Thomas. Are you sending out scripts voluntarily or are they 
requested? 

Air. Potter. We send them out to our regional offices. 

Mr. Adamson. All of them? 

Mr. Potter. I imagine so. 

Mr. Adamson. Every region in the United States gets the script? 

Mr. Potter. We have eight regions. I do not know whether they 
are all going out every time, but I know — I will enter in the record, as 
I told you, the contests that we have had with our regional officers 
regarding it. 

Mr. Thomas. Does Mr. WooUey know whether these scripts are 
going out? 

Mr. Potter. I could not say about that, but I wiU enter in the 
record everything we have on this relation, so that your record wiU 
be complete. 

Mr. Adamson. Actually, are they sent from, the Washington office, 
or the New York office? 

Mr. Potter. If they are sent, I should think they should go from 
the New York office on the order, the instructions, of the Washington 
office. 

Mr. Adamson. If they are produced in New York and distributed 
from New York to all of the regions in the United States. 

Mr. Potter. If they go outside of region 2, it would be on the 
instructions of the Washington office. They have no authority — if 
they send them outside of that, it would be on instructions of the 
Washington office. They would be simply acting on our orders. 

Mr. Adamson. Have you gentlemen any further questions? 

Mr. MuRDOCK. I would like to ask whether any of these scripts 
are available for the committee to study? 

Mr. Adamson. We have had quite a study made of them and 
tomorrow we will bring them on. 

Mr. Potter. I would like to say that we have the transcriptions 
themselves here and the machine if the committee wishes to hear them. 

Mr. Adamson. Our man has aheady listened to them through your 
courtesy, and that would take hours to do. 

Mr. Potter. We might take one that you thought was particularly 
bad and put that on for the committee if they wish to hear it. 

Mr. Adamson. If the chairman wants to do that? 

The Chairman. We have the scripts containing the broadcast. I 
do not think the oral presentation of it would add anything. 

Mr. Thomas. You have a man who will bring them on tomorrow? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir; we have had a man digest them. 

Mr. Thomas. As I understand it, what you have been trying to do 
is to build a foundation. 



42 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson, To show you the mechanics of how the thing runs. 
Without doing that, I do not see how you could get it. And Mr. 
Bowles wanted to get away, so I took him out of order. Then Mr. 
Potter is his assistant and I had to call him. 

The Chairman. Are there further questions? 

Mr. MuNDT. If we are going to have the actual scripts tomorrow, 
I suggest we have them played on the machine, not given to us in 
some mimeographed form. 

The Chairman. I don't think that can be preserved in the record, 
and I certainly would not favor their being played on a machine. 
We will have to have the script entered in the record, so we can 
determine from the contents of the script in performance — in per- 
manent form, whether or not they are of a subversive nature, which 
is the only point of this hearing. If we deviate here, we can deviate 
in a great many ways. 

Mr. Potter. We shall have the records here and the machines, if 
you want to hear them. That is up to the committee. 

The Chairman. Well, if the members of the committee want to 
hear them individually, that is up to them, but certainly, as chairman 
of the committee, I will not permit them to be played as part of the 
hearing. 

Mr. MuNDT. As a member of the committee, I protest. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions, gentlemen? 

Mr. Landis. Just one question. You say Mr. Weiner is on the 
pay roll of OPA? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Landis. Do you know what his salary is? 

Mr. Potter. $3,800 a year. 

The Chairman. What is his title? 

Mr. Potter. Regional radio director. 

The Chairman. How long has he been on the pay roll in that 
capacity? 

Mr. Potter. Almost a year. I think it was just about a year ago 
he went on the pay roll. 

The Chairman. He had not been employed by OPA prior to that 
time? 

Mr. Potter. He had not, and my understanding is that OPA has 
no connection with him, except that we wanted somebody for this type 
of work, and he was on the civil-service list, and we called him in and 
employed him. 

Mr. Thomas. You just happened to get his name on the list? 

Mr. PoTTE'R. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Thomas. You know nothing about him? 

Mr. Potter. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you got the file on his employment record? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, I have. I will be glad to file it. 

Mr. Thomas. Who was he employed by before he came with you? 

Mr. Potter. He was employed by — he was a free-lance writer 
before we employed him, writing many radio shows. He was not 
employed by Benton & Bowles, but he wrote scripts for some of the 
Benton & Bowles shows. He was also employed by other people. 
He wrote scripts for the Prudential Family Hour. For 6 months he 
contributed free of charge the show for the United States Navy. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA iS 

He wrote Counter Spy for Philip Lord. That is not the Standard 
Brands man. He wrote a lot of their script. He wrote the Salute to 
Youth for the Goodyear Tiro & Ruhber Co. 

I may say that this Soldiers "W'ith Coupons show was given an 
aw^ard by the Ohio State University for outstanding radio show. 

Mr. Adamson. There was another organization that gave him a 
medal, too. What was that, Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. The Salute to Youth program, put on by Goodyear 
Tire, with the Arthur Cudner Agency as the agency. There was the 
Chaplain's Story, and he was given an award for the outstanding 
show of the year in the promotion of radio tolerance and brotherhood 
on this show put on in which General Arnold appeared. 

Mr. Thomas. Who gave him that award? 

Mr. Potter. That award was by the National Conference of 
Christians and Jews. 

Mr. Thomas. Did you ever check up to find out what organization 
Tex Weiner had been a member of in the past? 

Mr, Potter. I have no idea of that. 

Mr. Thomas. Does his civil-service record show that? 

Mr. Potter. The record we have does not show anything about 
the membership in organizations. Now they make an investigation 
of everybody that goes on the government pay roll today, and rather 
a special one, I understand. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you got a copy of their report on Tex Weiner? 

Mr. Potter. I have not, but I will be glad to get it. 

Mr. Thomas. Will you get it for the record? 

Mr. Potter. I will be glad to get one. 

Mr. Adamson. Didn't he work for Orson Welles at one time? 

Mr. Potter. He may have worked on some Orson Welles show, 
but he was not employed by Orson Welles. 

Mr. Adamson. And I believe his record also shows that he attended 
Temple University, is that true? 

Mr. Potter. I think that is on his employment record; yes. 

Mr. Adamson. And that he received a degree from National Uni- 
versity here in Washington? 

Mr. Potter. I don't know. He went to National University, I 
believe the record shows; yes. 

Mr. Adamson. My recollection was that his record shows that he 
had a degree from National University. 

Mr. Thomas. When we meet tomorrow, could you submit all that 
information, particularly the civil-service report? 

Mr. Potter. I will be glad to do that. 

Mr. Adamson. That is ah I have now. 

The Chairman. The committee will adjourn until 10 o'clock 
tomorrow morning. 

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned until 
10 a. m., Thursday, June 21, 1945.) 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA 
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES 



THURSDAY, JUNE 21, 1945 

House of Representatives, 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Edward J. Hart (chairman) 
presiding. 

The Chairman. The committee will please come to order. Mr. 
Woolley, will you be sworn? 

TESTIMONY OF DANIEL R. WOOLLEY, NEW YORK CITY, ADMINIS- 
TRATOR, REGION 2, OPA 

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) 

Mr. Adamson. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Woolley, 
the regional director of New York, would like to get back to New 
York today, so I am going to change the order of calling witnesses so 
as to permit him to testify at this time and leave, if he so desires. I 
understand the House meets at 11 o'clock this morning, and I expect 
to finish with Mr. Woolley before 11, and I may be able to get in 
another witness, too, before that time. 

Mr. Thomas. Just a minute. This other witness that you refer 
to, is this very important witness that we just discussed a couple of 
minutes ago? 

Mr. Adamson. He could start his testimony but could not complete 
it by 11. 

Mr. Thomas. I think, then, under the circumstances, we should put 
him on first. 

Mr. Mundt. I think that is up to counsel to proceed as he desires. 

Mr. Adamson. First, I want to accommodate Mr. Woolley and 
get through with him so that he can get back to New York. Mr. 
Woolley, wiU you state your fuU name and your present address and 
your title? 

Mr. Woolley. Daniel Kittinger Woolley, 25 Second Place, New 
York City. I am the regional administrator of region 2, Office of 
Price Administration, New York City. 

Mr. Adamson. How long have you occupied that position? 

Mr. Woolley. Two years in November, coming November. 

Mr. Adamson. What business were you in prior to your connection 
with the OPA? 

Mr. Woolley. I was vice president and general sales manager of 
Standard Brands. 

Mr. Adamson. And you retired from that company now? 

45 



46 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And you receive the company's pension, do you? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. You are not on pension? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I am not on pension. 

The Chairman. You also occupied a municipal office, did you not? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I was commissioner of markets under the LaGuardia 
administration, following my retirement. My retirement only 
lasted a very short time. 

Mr. Adamson. Standard Brands, as I suppose you heard Mr. 
Stetler testify yesterday, is engaged in the advertising of food products; 
is that correct? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. How long were you in the advertising field, Mr. 
Woolley before you retired from Standard Brands? 

Mr. Woolley. I would say about 35 years. 

Mr. Adamson. And I suppose you are acquainted with Mr. Bowles 
in the advertising business? 

Mr. Woolley. I never was acquainted with him in the advertising 
business. They did not handle any of our advertising, 

Mr. Adamson. You did not know him before you became con- 
nected with OPA? 

Mr. Woolley. I probably had met him, but I did not know him. 
I didn't have any connection with him. 

Mr. Adamson. And you had no connection with Benton & Bowles, 
his advertising firm? 

Mr. Woolley. No, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. As I understood Mr. Bowles' testimony, his com- 
pany, Benton & Bowles, also handled the advertising for food 
distributing concerns. Is that correct? 

Mr. Woolley. I would not know. 

Mr. Adamson. You don't know that? 

Mr. Woolley. Not first-hand knowledge, I would not know that. 

Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us about the mechanical set-up, the 
operation of the regional office of OPA and the organic relationship 
with the main office of OPA here in Washmgton? 

Mr. Woolley. Well, I am, of course, personally appointed by Mr. 
Bowles to administer the rules and regulations of the Office of Price 
Administration. As for the actual operation of the region, we operate 
under directives. My principal directive is A. 04, which gives me the 
authority under which I handle the region. 

Mr. Adamson. You say, "handle the region." Does that give you 
exclusive jurisdiction and authority to employ and discharge em- 
ployees? 

Mr. Woolley. Under, of course, the civil-service regulations. The 
fact is, I cannot hire nor fire anybody in the Office of Price Adminis- 
tration. 

Mr. Thomas. What was that answer? 

Mr. Woolley. I can neither hire nor fire anyone in the Office of 
Price Administration, except by appeal to the United States Civil 
Service Commission. 

Mr. Thomas. Can't you get rid of somebody if you do not need his 
services any more? 

Mr. Woolley. That brings about a declaration and has to go to 
the Civil Service Commission. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 47 

Mr. Thomas. You mean to say that if you have a person there who, 
we will say, is stealing something or doing something that you do not 
like as an employee, you cannot do anything about it? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I can bring them up on charges. I have to prefer 
charges. 

Mr. Adamson. Had you ever brought charges against anybody? 

Mr. Rankin. Let him finish that answer. 

Mr. WooLLEY. To prefer charges — I don't know whether I am 
guilty or the person I am trying to get rid of is guilty, 

Mr. Thomas. Have you ever brought charges against anybody? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. How do you know whether he is guilty or not? 

Mr. WooLLEY. How do I know that? 

Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. 

Mr. WooLLEY. Well, charges have been brought against people 
but not by myself certainlj^. I know the procedure of bringing the 
charges. 

Mr. Thomas. What do you mean when you say you don't know 
whether you are guilty or not? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I say before you get through, you don't know who is 
guilty. 

Mr. Thomas. But you haven't brought any charges, so how do you 
know? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I take a little poetic license in that statement. 

Mr. Rankin. You mean that if you prefer charges against one of 
these individuals, they have to be tried then by the Civil Service 
Commission, then, do they not? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. And not by your outfit. 

Mr. WooLLEY. And if they are veterans, there enters additional 
procedure. 

Mr. Rankin. ^Vhat is that additional procedure? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I would have to refer you to the record on that. 

Mr. Rankin. But now additional procedure by whom? 

Mr. WooLLEY. By me or whoever I appoint; whatever deputy 
I appoint to hold the hearings plus the personnel that would be 
brought into the picture from civil service. 

Mr. Rankin. Then, so far as misconduct in your department is 
concerned, it is in the hands of the Civil Service Commission? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Wait a minute. To what extent. I certainly have 
agreed — I have a great deal of influence. If I don't like the way a 
person is handling his division, I can change that in several ways. 
I can either put them in another department or remove them, or if 
they are vicious, then they have to be brought up on charges. 

Mr. Rankin. Then if you bring him up and the Civil Service Com- 
mission brings in the verdict, "We, the jury, find this man who stole 
the horse, not guilty," then you can get rid of him. 

Mr. WooLLEY. I cannot do anything about it. 

Mr. Rankin. In other words, the Civil Service Commission is 
supreme when it comes to keeping people on the Federal pay roll, 
regardless of what they are charged with? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I would not like to answer that because I think 
"regardless of the charges," is a very broad term. 

Mr. Rankin. Suppose they came up and said, "We don't find the 
facts substantiated," there is not a thing in the world you can do 



48 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

about it unless you appeal to the President to issue an Executive 
order ordering his removal from the pay roll. 

Mr. WooLLEY. In answer to that, my power to hire and fire is 
very limited. 

Mr. Rankin. What I am trying to show is that when you catch 
people here in the Federal service violating the law or committing 
offenses, they just boimce them from one agency to another, under 
the jm-isdiction or supervision of the Civil Service Commission? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I am not making that statement. 

Mr. Rankin. Well, I am. 

Mr. Thomas. Do you have any employees who are not under 
civil service? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. They are all civil service? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. I see. 

Mr. Mundt. Have you ever, speaking of you now as OPA — have 
you ever brought charges against any employee, tried to remove 
that employee, and had the Civil Service nulHfy your action? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No, sir. 

Mr. Mundt. In other words, you have been just speaking about a 
hypothetical situation that might develop? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I am talking about the procedure, what is actually 
the fact. 

Mr. Mundt. You have never been through the procedure as an 
official of the OPA? 

Mr. WoOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Mundt. So it is just a hypothetical supposition? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Woolley, this procedure that you refer to— let 
us look at the employment end of it for a moment. When your regional 
office wishes to employ a man as a general supervisory official, such 
as radio director for the whole region, how do you go about choosing 
that man with the assistance of the Civil Service Commission? 

Mr. Woolley. The heads of the department concerned will ask 
Civil Service if they have a list. The heads of the department con- 
cerned will ask for a list of individuals meeting the job description, 
and if they have, they submit the list and the head of the department 
talks to them as to their qualifications, as to what they can do, and 
if they are suitable, we put them on the pay roll. 

Mr. Adamson. When they submit a hst to you, how many are on 
the list? 

Mr. Woolley. I should say ordinarily three. 

Mr. Adamson. And you choose one of the three? 

Mr. Woolley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. You do have a right to pass over two names? 

Mr. Woolley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And do you have personal knowledge about the 
employment of Mr. Weiner, or does someone else in your office do that? 

Mr. Woolley. I had nothing to do with the actual employment of 
Mr. Weiner. He came into the department as an individual that we 
needed for the pm-pose of writing radio scripts. 

Mr. Adamson. Who, in your office, would have knowledge of Mr. 
Weiner? 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 49 

Mr. WooLLEY. Mr. Mencher would, I think, in this case. He 
engaged him. 

Mr. Adamson. What is his title? 

Mr. WooLLEY. He is Director of Information. 

Mr. Adamson. And is he employed by Civil Service, too?. 

JMr. \V ooLLEY, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Is your position subject to civil service? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. It was advertised for. My job was ad- 
veritised for. 

Mr. MuNDT. I think the record is a little unclear at one point. I 
don't appear as an advocate of the Civil Service Commission; but you 
said that he, as an administrator, has the right to pass over two of the 
three names recommended. As a matter of fact, he can pass over all 
three, pass them over as often as he wants to. 

Mr. Adamson. You are right about that, Mr. Mundt. I had the 
assumption in mind that he intended to choose one of the three. 

Mr. Mundt. He can pass over all three and ask for a new list. 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. So you are not compelled to accept any particular 
man, are you? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No ; I can keep on sending back for a list if necessary. 

Mr. Adamson. And it is true also, that if the list is exhausted, the 
Civil Service Commission has machinery by which they can augment 
that list by asking for additional applicants? They have a form of 
official advertising saying such a rating is opening? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I think you are asking a question that I could not 
really answer. 

Mr. Adamson. If you do not know, just say so. 

Mr. WooLLEY. I do not know. 

Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us exactly how you distribute those 
things over the country, and any details that you think are essential. 

Mr. WooLLEY. Well, the so-called script is written, and then 
that script is edited by OWI, and then we produce the show, and as 
we produce the show we produce these records, so-called platters 
and the platters are pressed, and we send them out to our district 
offices of which there are 17. There have been reqi::^sts, I under- 
stand, although I could not tell you who they are, for additional 
platters to go out into other regional offices. Now, the scripts are 
sent as a result of having included them in a so-called radio kit — 
and this is my best understanding of it — under oath, I do not suppose 
I can promise it is altogether true; they are sent out in what we call 
a radio kit, from the national office, and that kit consists of. any live 
information that they think would be advantageous in the education 
of the public. 

The script is sent rather than the platters, due to the fact that as 
administrator (regional), I open and close the show, and obviously, 
another regional administrator would not want Woolley in Now York 
to be telling his public — giving them his ideas on the control of prices 
and rationing for their division. They want to do it themselves. 

Mr. Adamson. So that all you are interested in is transmitting the 
substance of the play itself to the offices of — offices outside of your 
region? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 



50 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. And these other regional directors have the priv- 
ilege of doing just as you do in your region, that is, making a little 
speech in connection with the play? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And you open and close the programs? Is that 
correct? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, these transcriptions that go out to your 17 
district offices, they do include your statements, do they not? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Within my own region; yes. 

Mr. Adamson. But those transcriptions that go to your district 
offices do not carry the name of Standard Brands? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No; I do not think so. I am not sure on that. I 
have been told that they did not; that the only ones that carry 
Standard Brands are the ones that go to Standard Brands for them 
to listen to in their own office. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, let us get that straight now. Is that one 
that is transcribed on the program for which Standard Brands pays? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Is it what? 

Mr. Adamson. A transcription that is made, including the name of 
Standard Brands — that is made at WOR? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, the other transcriptions that go to your dis- 
trict offices, is it your understanding that they are made somewhere 
else, not at WOR? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I don't know of that. So far as I know, they are 
made there from the original transcription, and pressed in some fac- 
tory. I would not know about the mechanics of that. 

Mr. Adamson. How they take out the name of Standard Brands? 

Mr. WooLLEY. You can delete that line. The words "by the 
Courtesy of Standard Brands," can be taken out of the script. 

Mr. Adamson. That is mechanically possible? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. You know that? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, these written scripts that are sent out, I 
understood Mr. Potter yesterday to say that they were distributed 
by your office. Now, are you sure that they are sent out by the 
national office? 

Mr. WooLLEY. If they are sent out from our office, they are sent 
out at the direction of the national office. We have no connection — 
there is no connection between our office and any other regional office. 
Everything we do would go through the national office. 

Mr. Adamson. Who would know about that? 

Mr. WooLLEY. If they are not, I will be greatly surprised, because 
that is not the way it should be done. 

Mr. Adamson. Then it is your understanding that these scripts are 
distributed by the national office? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. Whatever distribution is made^ 
would be made by the national office. 

Mr. Adamson. Then you think Mr. Potter's description of that 
detail 

Mr. Potter (interposing). I agree to answer that whole thing in 
the record. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 51 

TMr. Adamson. All right. I want to get through with Mr. Woolley 
first. 

Mr. Potter. I have it here Avhenever you want it. 

Mr. Thomas. Then they are set out from the National OfRce? 

Mr. WooLLEY. So far as I know. 

Mr. MuNDT. Why not straighten this point out while we are on it? 
Mr. Potter says he has the answer with him. Why not let him state 
it now? 

The Chairman. It is in the form of correspondence, is it not? 

Mr. Potter. It is in the form of records or radio kits. It is a 
collection of papers going out to — going out and describing various 
radio material that other regional offices may make use of. W^e sent 
out five scripts, I think, to uitroduce this program, let the other 
regional offices know about it. 

I have the notices with which those were sent out, which I will be 
glad to enter in the record, and we felt, after sending out five of them, 
that the other regionals knew about them, and if they wanted addi- 
tional copies, they could get them. 

Mr. Adamson. Then you think Mr. Woolley's statement is correct, 
that they are distributed by the national office, rather than the 
regional office? 

Mr. Potter. We distributed five of them to all of the people. We 
did not send them out after that. We thought that if they wanted 
any more, they could get them, if they hked the program and wanted 
to make use of it, they could get it either through the national office 
by writing direct. \ 

Mr. Adamson. WTien was your last distribution of them, approxi- 
mately? 

You need not give us the exact date. 

Mr. Potter. I can give you the exact date very easily. The first 
one was on September 18, 1944, and for five succeeding weeks, we 
sent out the scripts, so that the other regional offices would know, if 
they wanted to make use of it, they would know what the program was. 

Mr. MuNDT. You have been sending them out from your office 
since last October? 

Mr. PoTiER. We have not sent them to all the regional offices. 
I understand that the Denver regional offices have made some use of 
this program, but not through using the records or transcriptions made 
in New York. They have adapted it to their own uses. 

Mr. Adamson. They write in and ask your office to send the 
script, and you send it to them? 

Mr. Potter. That is right. But we sent them out to all of the 
regional administrators for 5 successive weeks, so that they would 
be familiar with the nature of the show, and if they wanted to make 
any use of it, they could do so. 

Air. Adamson. So far as you know, is it the Denver office that is 
using this? 

Mr. Potter. That is the only office that has made use of them. 

Mr. Adamson. That is currently? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. Woolley, did you know Mr. Weiner at all 
before he was employed by your organization? 

Mr. WoOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. You had no contact with him? 



52 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. WOOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. And you say you personally did not select him? 

Mr. WoOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. And you did not go over the civil-service list when 
that position was filled, that is, you personally? 
Mr. WoOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. And you know nothing about his qualifications? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No; except what I have read of the Civil Service. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you read the Civil Service report on Mr. 
Weiner? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I have since this investigation. I had not before. 

Mr. Adamson. If you found that the background on which his 
application was based to the Civil Service Commission was erroneous 
and misleading, would it be your purpose to take any steps in the 
matter? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I would think that if the information on Civil 
Service was erroneous and deliberately so, I would not want him as an 
employee in the region, and that I would refer it back to Civil Service, 
of course. 

Mr. Adamson. In other words, you feel that all you could do would 
be to tell the Civil Service Commission that you are dissatisfied with 
him, and you think they should take the necessary steps to separate 
him from your Department? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is correct. 

Mr. Adamson. And a hearing would then be held by the Com- 
mission, not by you? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Now let us get into the question of programs, Mr. 
Woolley. 

Mr. Thomas. Before you leave that, don't you think — does counsel 
have any idea that there is anything in the Civil Service report that 
is a misstatement? 

Mr. Adamson. We are informed that it is erroneous, Mr. Thomas, 
but we have not fully completed our investigation, and we don't 
want to make any erroneous statements concerning it until it is 
completed, until we are sure. We alw.^.ys double check that because, 
in many instances you find people who have similar names, and we 
always try to be accurate. Just as yesterday I cleared up the question 
here about Phillip Lord. There is one Phillip Lord who is a director 
of Standard Brands, and another one who is not. Now, Mr. Woollev, 
this program that is paid for by Standard Brands, if you heard Mr. 
Stetler's testimony, you know that he said he went away on a trip 
and when he came back the matter was on his desk. Who suggested 
to Standard Brands that they finance this? Was that you? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Well, Standard Brands, and I think about three 
other companies, were suggested as being people who were willing to 
contribute their funds for the support of the Government's activities, 
and naturally, my acquaintance with Standard Brands is a vrey 
friendlv one, and I think that right now they are contributing some- 
thing like $300 spots on their radio program for various war activities. 
So I asked several of the men up there if we would consider that — ^I 
did not ask them. They were asked and the answer came back that 
if I wanted it, they would be glad to do it. I told them I wanted it, 
so it was done. 



INVESTIGATION 'OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 53 

Mr. Adamson. The tlimg that I cannot get clear in my own mind, 
Mr. A\'oolley, is why it was necessary to have someone pay for the 
time when the radio stations were aheady providing free time for 
the program. 

Mr. \\ ooLLEY. I will have to explain that because we were on a 
small New York station. This station was a fairly expensive show 
in time and 1 consider money. The station time on the small station 
was given to us but we had a very limited audience. It did not cover 
the rest of the region and 1 finally decided that unless we could get a 
more important station and a station with more coverage, we would 
have to abandon it, because we did not have the money with which to 
buy radio time. I approached a couple of — well, not two — I ap- 
proached one of the big networks and asked them if it would be 
possible for them to give us the time on their station, and they said 
the}^ had already, like most of the other stations, allotted all of the 
free time they could possibly afford to give, and therefore, we were at 
a dead end unless we could buy the time through the generosity of 
some company who wanted to make it a public service. Otherwise^ 
we would have gone off the air with the show. 

Mr. Adamson. But you are sending the show out to 17 district 
offices now, where it is being broadcast free of charge? Is that not 
true? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I can't put that together. "What do you mean by 
that? 

Mr. Adamson. You are sending these transcriptions out, you say, 
to your district offices — 17 of them. 

Air. A\'ooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And I understand they are being broadcast by the 
radio stations free of charge? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Well, there are many stations in each of these dis- 
tricts. 

Mr. Adamson. Did you send a record to each of those stations — 
or do you? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No; we send a record to each of the districts, and 
when the radio people call up and say, "Have you got any material 
for us?" We have some time. Sometimes it is one time and some- 
times it is another — just whenever they have space, and they ask, 
"Have you any material for us?" Then they let them have this 
platter, which fills in this; they either do that or the}" supply script, 
or they give them other materials that they can use for the time 
that they are willing to give. 

Mr. Adamson. But they are running the show free of charge? la 
that not true? 

Mr. WooLLEY. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And they do cover your region pretty well? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. So that you do not need a powerful station in New 
York to reach out and cover the rest of the region, do you? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Well, I don't know whether j^ou know that tech- 
nically, a so-ciilled dead-end show is not nearly so good as a live show; 
in fact, when you put on a record and you say, "This is a recorded 
program" in radio parlance, you might just as well not put it on. 

The Chairman. Mr. Woollev, I assume that some of these smaller 
stations that lie within the various districts are never listened to by 



54 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

the great majority of people who reside in that section, as against a 
station Hke WOR, that hes outside of the district? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I think that is correct, because as a matter of fact, 
we make no attempt to force a radio show on any radio station. 
They come to us and ask us for materiaL They do our price hst, 
our rationings changes, and so forth, and it is a service that the radio 
people have been willing to give distribution to, as the newspapers 
have. 

Mr. MuNDT. You mean little stations or big stations? 

Mr. WooLLEY. The big stations, you see, give — first of all, they 
give a tremendous amount of time to all Government activities, and 
they give as much as they have agreed to give — I don't know what it 
is, but there is a definite amount of time that has been decided upon. 
If you go to them for additional time they will say, "I am sorry, but 
we cannot give you our time." Ordinarily, we clear that time that 
we can get on a big station through OWI. 

Mr. Adamson. On that point can you tell us the regulations laid 
down by your office, that Mr. Weiner is supposed to follow in handling 
this script? Let us assume that he has completed a script. What is 
he supposed to do with it then? How far ahead is he supposed to 
finish it? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I could not give you exactly the number of days or 
hours, but he is supposed to have it sufficiently far in advance so that 
OWI may edit the script as to quality and get it back to us in time 
for production. 

Mr. Adamson. I understood Mr. Potter, I believe, and Mr. Bowles, 
yesterday to say that those scripts were also supposed to be edited 
by the Office here in W'''ashington, the Office of OPA. Is that true? 

Mr. W OOLLEY. Well, I do not know whether they are supposed to 
be edited. I think they are looked over, then referred to OWI. 
OWI has the final say as to what can go on the air. Of course, they 
are also edited by WOR. 

Mr. Adamson. Is it your understanding that the Office of OPA 
here in Washington is supposed to edit this script or not? That is 
the point I am interested in. 

Mr. W OOLLEY. Yes; they have every right to object to anything 
they do not like in the script. 

Mr. Thomas. Is it a question of right, or is it a question of ruling 
by the national office of OPA? 

Mr. WooLLEY. So far as I know, I don't think we have ever gotten 
a definite ruling in writing as to what the procedure is to be. 

Mr. Adamson. But it has been your practice to send the script to 
the head office of OPA? 

Mr. WooLLEY. It is a definite ruling that OPA has to O. K. every- 
thing. 

Mr. Thomas. But at the present time in your head office of 
OPA 

Mr. WooLLEY (interposing). I must admit that I do not know 
what the procedure is here in the national office for editing script. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter said yesterday, as you remember, that 
the scripts were all supposed to come here to this office, because 
Washington happened to be in your region, as I miderstood hun, and 
that they had a staff in the OPA office here. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 55 

Mr. WooLLEY. No. Washington is not — the district office is in 
my region, not the national office. You have got the head office of 
the OPA in Washington, but we also have a district office that corre- 
sponds to the district in Trenton, or Pittsburg or Philadelphia. 

Mr. Adamson. But Mr. Potter said yesterday that the scripts were 
supposed to come here to certain employees on the staff, who were 
charge'd with that duty, as I understood him. 

Mr. WooLLEY. I think that he said that; yes. 

Mr. Adamson. And do you know whether or not Mr. Weiner has 
instructed to follow that procedure? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I know that he is not only instructed, but he does it. 

Mr. Adamson. You do send them here and they do edit the script? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I do not know what they do with them. We send 
them here. 

Mr. Adamson. And is it not true that they return them to Mr. 
Weiner with their editorial comments? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. And if you found that Mr. Weiner disregarded those 
instructions or those editorial comments, would you wish to keep 
him, still? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I might go so far as to agree that I think the edi- 
torial changes were out of order. 

Mr. Adamson. That is a very important point, Mr. Woolley, that 
I would like to have you make clear to this committee. Which 
office is supreme in this matter? 

Mr. Woolley. The national office is supreme, but that does not 
keep a regional office from maldng a protest where, in the handling 
of the script, they make it inocuous and something that I am quite 
sure from my experience as a radio director, nobody will listen to. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, in these instances which we will show subse- 
quently, where Mr. Weiner has disregarded the editorial changes 
made here in Wasliington, are they made with your knowledge and 
consent, or just you tell — you tell him to go ahead and disregard 
them? 

Mr. Woolley. No. 

Mr. Adamson. What is your policy? 

Mr. Woolley. For instance, if they change — after all, what we 
want to know in the production of a program is this: Is it in accord- 
ance with the policy of the Government — which, in this particular 
case, is set by OWI — or is it somebody's wliim that they do not want 
to use it, to say when, why, where, or some other thing? To begin 
with, all of your radio scripts have to be changed natm'ally, at the last 
minute. They give me sentences that they have changed, that I 
can't say. I don't kr.ow whether you have been on the radio very 
much, but there are certain tonguetwisters that you have got to 
have simple language for. I will state this: I definitely would not 
permit any change in policy. When it comes to make the scripts 
readable and understandable either I can say, or the union actors 
can say — those people are all taken off the list— then I say, "Well, 
that would be better if that were changed this way." But we always 
tried to compromise. I am always hopeful that we will get along on 
an amicable basis. 

Mr. Adamson. Let us assume a hypothetical case here, for the 
sake of clarifying it. Suppose Mr. Weiner sends down a script on the 



56 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

first of the month. Suppose the staff here in Mr. Potter's office 
reviews the script, makes editorial changes and returns it on the 
5th of the month. Suppose the show is scheduled to go on on the 10th. 
Mr. Weiner goes over the script on the 6th or 7th, as soon as he gets 
around to it, and he doesn't like the editorial changes that have been 
made in Washington; is it the policy of your office to disregard the 
changes made here in Washington and go ahead with the original 
script, or does he come to you and ask you what do do about it? 

Mr. WooLLEY. No; he does not come to me. The policy is for him 
to telephone the Washington office and say, "We think it would be 
better if you left this in the way it was in the first place." 

If they still do not want it clone, then we do what they tell us to. 

Mr. Thomas. Has that been the practice? 

Mr. WooLLEY. Yes. 

Mr. MuNDT. If, instead of doing what they told you to, Mr. 
Weiner was to go ahead and still do what he pleased, would you still 
want to keep Mr. W^einer in your employ? 

Mr. WooLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. Let me give you an example here, Mr. Woolley. 
Suppose Mr. Weiner follow^ed the policy of outlining his openingTin 
these plays, and in saying that this program is to assist OPA in its 
fight against fascism, for example, and the Washington office objected 
to the word "fascism" and wanted him to substitute "inflation" and 
Mr. Weiner persistently refused to make the substitution, but went 
ahead and used the word "fascism" instead of "inflation," how would 
you regard that conduct? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I would say that is very bad cooperation between 
Mr. W einer and the national office. 

Mr. Adamson. And if that is the fact, would you think that was 
ground for Mr. Weiner's discharge? 

Mr. Woolley. No. 

Mr. Adamson. You would still want to keep him? 

Mr. Woolley. I would still want to keep him. I would consider 
that that was a matter of temperament between probably two in- 
dividuals. 

Mr. MuNDT. That is not quite clear to me. Let me see if I under- 
stand it, Mr. Woolley. I understand you to say that if, instead of 
displaying, or describing to the people of New York City that OPA 
is an agency to fight inflation, Mr. Weiner would describe it as an 
agency to fight fascism, you would say, "Well, that is O. K. We will 
still keep it 'fascism' instead of 'inflation.' " 

Mr. Woolley. Well, you are putting thoughts in my head that I 
never possibly could have. 

Mr. MuNDT. That is what I understood you to say. 

Mr. Woolley. No; I say, if Mr. Weiner, in one instance, was asked 
to change the word "fascism" to "inflation" and he did not do that, I 
would say that that was very bad cooperation between Mr. Weiner 
and, therefore, I would censure him, but I don't think that that is 
cause for dismissal. 

Mr. MuNDT. Just once? 

Mr. Woolley. I said once. I understood counsel only asked once. 

Mr. MuNDT. If it was done repeatedly. 

Mr. Woolley. If it was done repeatedly and he repeatedly refused 
to do what he was told to do, Mr. W^einer would have to go. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 57 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Woolley, don't you think that the staff in Mr. 
Potter's ofhee here shouhl be really better qualilied to determine 
matters of poliey in publicity for OPA than Mr. Weiner would be? 

Mr. "Woolley. I think so. 

Mr. Ad.val'iON. And don't you tliink there should be an iron-bound 
rule that Mr. Weiner should obey the instructions from Washington 
without aj-gument or dispute? 

Mr. Woolley. No; I do not. I think we have problems in each 
one of these territories that arc peculiar to themselves, and if you are 
going to reduce us to the status of a messenger or a mouthpiece office 
boy, then you don't need a regional office. 

Let me just put one other thing in there. Of course, it depends a 
great deal on who the individual is who is making these decisions. 
If the decision comes from somebody who is responsible, that is one 
thing; if that correction or procedure comes from some little, low-down 
boy down the fine, then I think that is another thing. I would like 
to know who the authority is for deciding a change in policy in the 
regional office. 

Mr. Adamson. Didn't you hear Mr. Potter say yesterday that he 
had had several persons on his staff who were designated and charged 
with the duty of looking after this business? 

Would you consider them to be too low down in the scale to receive 
proper respect and attention from your office? 

Mr. Woolley. I was interested in the exhibit that you put in from 
someone whom we had to inquire a long time to find out who he was. 

Mr. Adamson. I do not think you are answering my question, Mr. 
Woolley. We have a situation here where IMr. Potter has said under 
oath that he has people in his office who have been designated to do 
this work. 

Mr. Woolley. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. How do you regard those people, whoever they are? 
Do they fall in this low-down class that you mentioned? 

Mr. Woolley. Mr. Potter has many people on his staff. Among 
them are people of great responsibility, for whom I have much respect, 
and those people, naturally, tlieii' orders are strictly adhered to, but 
once in a while somebody else creeps into it, and those we question, 
"Who are you, and what kind of orders are these you are giving us?" 

Mr. Adamson. W^ell, you still do not answer the question, Mr. 
Woolley. 

Mr. Woolley. I think my choice of the expression "low down" 
was a little unfortunate. I mean low down in the scale of employments, 
not that they are low-down people. 

Mr. Adamson. I understand that you mean relatively on the 
official scale. 

Mr. W^ooLLEY'. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Not in character. I did not take it in that manner. 

Mr. Woolley. Well, I hoped you would not. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, let us stick to the people whom Mr. Potter 
described. He said they were delegated to do the work. I w^ant you 
to tell me if those people— that is, in your estimation, the estimation 
of your office, are of sufficient responsibility to control this situation. 

Mr. Woolley. I would not know that. 

Mr. Adamson. You don't know whether Mr. Weiner adheres to 
theu" instructions or not? 



58 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. WooLLEY. When there has been any conference in which I was 
brought in, I asked the head of the information — I have consulted 
with them and asked, "Is this the thing you want to do?" 

And invariably we reach an amicable understanding and we go 
ahead with the show. Now, there is a certain amount of bickering 
that goes back and forth that I would consider so unimportant com- 
pared to the general scheme of things that I do not know who you 
mean by all these individuals. I don't know who Mr. Potter meant, 
because I only know the heads of the various departments in the 
Office of Price Administration. 

Mr. Adamson. I believe Mr. Potter named several here yesterday 
You mean to tell me you never heard of them? 

Mr. WoOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. You do not even know who they are? 

Mr, WoOLLEY. No. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, Mr. Woolley, to cut this matter short, will you 
tell us now how much personal contact you have with this play and 
the supervision of the script and material and so forth? How much 
time do you devote to it? 

Mr. WooLLEY. I go on the rehearsal an hour before the show goes 
on, and I listen to the script very carefully. If I think there are things 
in there that are not presented properly — that do not properly repre- 
sent and present the program and our ambition to hold inflation, or 
that would in any way reflect upon any class of people or any indi- 
vidual or any business, I immediately say I do not like those words 
the way that is said. They will have to be put a little differently, or 
we will have to delete that. I am given statements to make which 
are written for me, and I invariably change the writing to suit my own 
peculiar style first, and to see to it that they are things that I would 
care to say, things that are for the public good. 

Mr. Adamson. But you are already in the studio then. 

Mr. Woolley. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. That is all of the supervisory attention that you 
give to the program? 

Mr. Woolley. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And you don't know what transpires, really, while 
the script is being edited and formulated? 

Mr. Woolley. No. 

Mr. Adamson. It is 5 minutes of 11, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Let us proceed with Mr. Woolley, Mr. Adamson. 

Mr. Kobinson. I thought we were going to get down to brass tacks 
today. 

Mr. "Thomas. The attorney is putting on one witness right after 
another. He can't put them all on at one time. 

The Chairman. Let us proceed with Mr. Woolley, Mr. Adamson. 

Mr. Adamson. I have no further questions of Mr. Woolley at this 
time. 

The Chairman. Are there any other questions of Mr. Woolley by 
the committee? 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Woolley, did you confer with anyone with a 
view to canceling these committee hearings? 

Mr. Woolley. I did not. 

Mr. Thomas. You never conferred with anyone? 

Mr. Woolley. No, sir. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 59 

Mr. Thomas. That is all I have. 

The Chairman. That is all, Mr. Woollcy. Thank you very much. 

Now, we want to call Mr. Potter. 

TESTIMONY OF ZENAS L. POTTER— Resumed 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, I want to ask you if you would let me 
have that employment application that you mentioned in answer to 
a question here by one of the members. I want to get that in detail 
for the record. 

Mr. Potter was sworn vesterday. You need not take the stand, 
Mr. Potter. 

In response to a request- 

The Chairman. Just a moment. So everything will be clear for 
the record, Mr. Woolley may now return to New York? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. Thank you very much for coming down, 
Mr. Woolley. 

In response to my request Mr. Potter has produced here for inspec- 
tion bv the committee an employment application by Mr. Tex Her- 
man Weiner of 222 West Eightj^-Third Street, New York City, which 
indicates that he was born on December 28, 1912, and he made this 
application for employment on May 16, 1944. He says he was born 
in Philadelpliia, Pa., is married; 6 feet tall, weighs 200 pounds, so we 
can identify the gentleman if necessary. He describes his educational 
background, his qualifications, as Temple University Pre-Law School; 
National University ^School of Law, 3 years; LL.B. That was 
1934-37. 

After his law degree he w^ent to a school called, Dramatic Workshop, 
Playwriting. He gives his previous employment by the Government 
as OWI, Overseas Branch. Says he at present is a free-lance radio 
writer. There are other details in his application, references, which 
I have looked over very briefly. He gives other people for whom he 
has worked, Benton & Bowles, Philips H. Lord, Columbia Broad- 
casting System. Then he says. Office, Bureau of Information, 
Public Relations, for the Department of Agriculture. 

Mr. Robinson. Does he give the date and age? 

Mr. Adamson. That will make him 31, he says here, last May. 
He has only been with the OPA, Mr. Robinson, for, I think, a little 
less than a year. 

Mr. Potter. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. I want this in the record so we might be able to 
identify him if we find there are other people in there named ^'N einer. 

The Chairman. We will hear Mr. Potter now, Mr. Adamson, if you 
are ready for him. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter has been sworn previously. 

Mr. Potter. Do you want me to enter in the record the material 
which you asked for? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes. I understood you were going to bring that 
information in. 

Mr. Potter. As I have already stated, the office sent out to the 
regional administrators in other OPA regions besides region 2, informa- 
tion about this show, and a sufficient number of scripts to let the other 
regional administrators see the nature of this show and determine 
whether they wanted to make use of it or not. The first mailing was 



60 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

on September 18, and along with lists of other radio material that the 
other regions might use, this statement was made: 

Soldiers with Coupons. The New York Office is now doing a bang-up 15-minute 
dramatic program each week. Tex Weiner, regional radio director, writes and 
produces the show. With the exception of the regional administrator the cast is 
made up of professional actors and musicians. The cost averages about $168 a 
week. The program is over WNEW, New York City, and transcribed for use in 
the district. About 26 stations are carrying the program now. 

Knowing that many of you are interested in dramatic scripts, we will include 
the New York script in the sheets shipped each week, provided, of course, it is 
suitable for general distribution. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, that was up until May 1 or April 1? 
You mentioned WNEW there. 

Mr. Potter. Yes; that is right. You see, his was sent out to the 
regions when the show started. 

Mr. Adamson. At that time WNEW was running the show free? 

Mr. Potter. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Adamson. And who was paying the $168 a week to the help? 

Mr. Potter. The regional Office of Price Administration, I believe, 
was paying it. 

Mr. Adamson. All right; go ahead. 

Mr. Potter. On September 25, we again included a copy of the 
script with these words: 

Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject: 
Nylon Black Market. 

On October 2, we sent out the script with these words: 

Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject: 
Rent Control. 

On October 9', we sent out the script: 

Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject: 
The Black Market in Meat. 

The Chairman. The others are similar, except in title? 
Mr. Potter. Just one more. On October 16 it was sent out with 
the words: 

Soldiers With Coupons. New York's 15-minute dramatic script. Subject: 
Price Panel Assistants. 

At that time we felt that the other regions had a better idea of the 
show, and if they wanted to make any use of it, they could do so. 
Since then there has been no distribution of special information about 
this show to another region. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, did you hear all of Mr. Woolley's 
testimony? 

Mr. Potter. I did, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Can you enlighten us on one point there? Mr. 
Woolley said he did not know of anybody on your staff who was 
assigned to the job of editing these scripts. Coidd it be possible that 
the regional office in New York does not know officially that you have 
such persons on your staff? 

Mr. PoTiER. I am sure that they know that we have people dealing 
with radio in the New York office. As I explained yesterday this 
radio script never would have come to New York, to our national 
office, for consideration save for the fact that our New York region 
overlapped to two OWI regions, otherwise, it would have been cleared 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 61 

locally with OWI in Now York. Since the program overlapped two 
regions, OWI wanted to clear it in Washington, consequently, it came 
into our New York office and we looked it over here, too, and shipped 
it to New York. 

The Chairman. You said it came into 5^our New York office? 

Mr. Potter. I beg pardon, sir. To our Washington office, and it 
was gone over here by our radio department, which heads up under 
Mr. Herb Little, who is Special Assistant Deputy Administrator in 
charge of — what is your title? 

Mr. LiiTLE. Editorial Division. 

Mr. Potter. In charge of the Editorial Division and supervises 
radio, press, magazines, visual, graphic presentation, and things of 
that kind. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you regard Mr. Little's department as depend- 
able and capable? 

Mr. Potter. Very much so. 

Mr. Adamson. And you said yesterday that there was no other 
dramatic program put out over the air by OPA in the United States? 

Mr. Potter. Regularly presented, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. As a regular program? 

Mr. Potter. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson, So that if another regular dramatic program were 
authorized, jou might requu'e it to be sent to Washington for editorial 
comment, naturally? 

Mr. Potter. No; it would not come here. Normally, it would be 
cleared with the OWI office in the region where it originates. 

Mr. Adamson. But there is no other such program in the country 
at the present time? 

Mr. Potter. No; but all our information programs originating in 
each region over the country are cleared with OWI in that region, 
provided it does not overlap a couple of OWI offices, in which case 
they might send it down to New York for clearance. 

Mr. Adamson. That is all I have of Mr. Potter at this time, Mr. 
Chairman. 

The Chairman. Any questions by the committee? 

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Potter, do you have the list of the radio stations 
which broadcast these platters without charge, as Mr. Woolley 
indicated? 

Mr. Potter. It was in — it was entered in the record yesterday, 
the names of the stations to which these transcriptions are sent. 

Mr. Adamson. One inconsistency, Mr. Mundt — I understood Mr. 
Woolley to say that he had 17 districts, and that he picked out one 
station in each district that he wants to use that time. 

Mr. Woolley. I would say there is more than one station in each 
district, any station that liappens to have time and is willing to use it, 
they can get it. It may not be the same station each week. 

Mr. Adamson. I believe there were 25 or 30 stations on that list. 

Mr. Potter. There are, I think, 30 stations at the present time, 
making use of flashes. 

Mr. Adamson. So there might be several stations in one district; 
is that correct? 

Mr. Potter. I think so. 

Mr. W^ooLLEY. Yes; that is right. 



62 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. MuNDT. They are all small stations, I presume, except WOR? 

Mr. Potter. I don't know the list, sir. I don't recall. It was 
entered here. I imagine that they are mainly local stations used in the 
advertising business. 

Mr. MuNDT. There has been considerable discussion during the 
tune counsel was interrogating Mr. Woolley about the competency 
of the W/'ashington office to give good advice to Air. Weiner, so I 
wish you would tell us something about Mr. Little, so we can see 
whether he is low down in this scale of officialdom, or whether he has 
considerable capacity. 

Mr. Potter. We think Air. Little a very able man. I believe he 
handled the news up here on the Hill for a great many years. He is 
a splendid newsman. 

Mr. Thomas. Then he could not be low down on the scale. 

Mr. Potter. I think he is a good man. 

The Chairman. There was no inference in what Mr. Woolley said, 
that the heads of the department would be low down on the official 
scale. 

Ml. Potter. Oh, no. 

The Chairman. There is a misconception on that score. 

Mr. Potter. I would just like to say this about that, that I think 
what Mr. Woolley referred to is the fact that a Air. Van Brunt in our 
organization, who is not in the Radio Department wrote certain 
comments across one of these scripts, which was quoted in the record 
yesterday and Mr. Woolley did not concede that he was the man to 
properly determine what should go into the show, or what should not 
go into the show. 

Mr. MuNDi. Is Air. Van Brunt on the staff of Mr. Little? 

Mr. Potter. No; he is in the Program Planning Department there, 
and this script, apparently went over his desk and he wrote these 
comments. 

Mr. AluNDT. Then the script is not sent to Mr. Little; it is sent to 
Mr. Van Brunt? 

Mr. Potter. No; it is sent to Mr. Little's office, and Mr. Van 
Brunt is not in Mr. Little's office; he is in another branch of the 
Information Department. 

But this script happened to go over his desk and he wrote these 
comments which were read into the record yesterday. 

Air. MuNDT. But the usual procedure is for the script to go through 
Mr. Little's office? 

Mr. Potter. That is right. 

Mr. MuNDT. And somebody is designated by him to make the 
corrections and modifications? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. 

Mr. MuNDT. So that the one that was criticized by Mr. Van Brunt 
just happened to be a deviation? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Little may send the show to anybody around his 
office, he may send it to somebody to get his comments. 

But Mr. Van Brunt is not m Mr. Little's office and is not regularly 
assigned to edit script. 

He just happened to get this script, and he wrote across it. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, would you be good enough to tell us 
Mr. Van Brunt's title? 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 63 

Mr. Potter. I do not thiiik he has a title, sir, except as a member 
of tlio stall" of the Program Plamiing Department of the Branch of the 
Information Department. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, as a matter of fact 

Mr. Potter (interposmg). He may have some title, but I could 
not tell you. He is not the head of the Program Branch — Program 
Planning Department. 

Mr. Adamson. Is it not true that this script was sent to Mr. Van 
Brunt because they wanted his criticism? 

Mr. Potter. I imagine so, sir. I think the best thing to do, if 
you want to get mto the editing of this — Mr. Little is here, and 
would be glad to go on the stand and tell your committee exactly 
what his editorial procedures were and how it happened to get into 
the hands of Mr. Van Brunt. 

Mr. Adamson. You particularly referred to Mr. Van Brunt, and I 
assume from your testimony you regarded Mr. Van Brunt's memo- 
randum as of little weight. Now, is it not true that they probably 
asked Mr. Van Brunt for his opinion because they had doubt about 
the program? 

Mr. Potter. I do not know the circumstances under which they 
shifted this to him. I don't know what value they put on his judg- 
ment. I think the best thing to do would be to ask Mr. Little those 
questions, because any answer that I gave you would be pure assump- 
tion on my part. 

Mr. Thomas. I would like to ask one question. 

Mr. Potter, did you confer with anyone with a view to canceling 
these committee hearings? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, sii-. 

Mr. Thomas. Whom did you confer with? 

Mr. Potter. The chairman of the committee. 

Mr. Thomas. Who else? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Robmson. 

Mr. Thomas. Who else? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Bonner, I think. 

Mr. Thomas. Who else did you confer with? 

Mr. Potter. And I think Air. Peterson. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. who? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Peterson. 

Mr. Thomas. \Mio else did you confer w^th? 

Mr. Potter. I think that is all. 

Mr. Thomas. Do you not recall conferring with someone about 2 
weeks ago? 

Mr. Potter. I think I did. 

Mr. Thomas. Did you confer with any of our investigators or 
counsel? 

Mr. Potter. No, I did. 

Mr. Thomas. Very well. That is all I have. 

The Chairman. AVhat was the tenor of the remarks, the conference 
you had with the chairman? 

Mr. Potter. I told the chairman I was concerned that this in- 
vestigation was being made under the circumstances at this time; 
that I felt it might interfere — might have a bearing upon the renewal 
of the Price Control Act before Congress, and I felt that it probably 



64 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

would be better if it could be postponed and not be involved in any 
way in the operation of the price-control bill. 

Mr. Adamson. On that point, did you ask me at any time 

The Chairman (interposing). Just a minute, Mr. Adamson. He 
is talking about his conference with the chairmai!. 

Mr. Adamson. I beg pardon. 

Mr. Potter. I never have talked with you save over the phone, 
Mr. Adamson. 

The Chairman. What did the chairman tell you with respect to it? 

Mr. Potter. He told me the thing should not be postponed. 

The Chairman. The chairman told >ou the hearing had been 
ordered by resolution of the committee, and the chairman was power- 
less to change it? 

Mr. Potter. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. You did confer with the counsel, though, over the 
phone? 

Mr. Potter. I talked to him a number of tim.es. I don't think I 
ever made any request of that kind. 

The Chairman. Did the chairman refer you to counsel? 

Mr. Potter. I do not think so. 

The Chairman. I think you are in error on that. I told you 
that — this may be considered as under oath — I told you counsel was 
in charge of the investigation and that it would be better to talk 
with him than with me about any adjustment of the period of the 
hearing. 

Mr. Robinson. What are you going to do now, start an investiga- 
tion of the committee? 

Mr. Thomas. What I am leading up to is another point that will 
come out when the next witness comes on, and you will understand 
what I was driving at. I did not realize that he had conferred with 
all you gentlemen. I am sorry about that. 

Mr. Robinson. I will be responsible if you want to ask me. 

Mr. Thomas. No; I did not know he had conferred with so many 
people. I was trying to find out whether he conferred with another 
person. 

Mr. Bonner. I think my name has been mentioned here. Mr. 
Potter did come to my office, and I told him I knew nothing about it, 
and I have been here 2 days now and I still know nothing about it. 
I don't think anyone else does. 

But some certain few know something about it. I surely have 
wasted 2 days here if I have not got something in my mind that 1 can 
connect all this stuff with. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Bonner, you voted for this hearing? 

Mr. Bonner. Never heard of it. 

Mr. Thomas. Didn't you vote to have the hearing? 

Mr. Bonner. Well 

 The Chairman (interposing). This is all out of order, gentlemen. 
The gentleman from North Carolina is not subject to questioning 
from other members of the committee. He has a right to rnake his 
statement since his name has been mentioned, and it is not in order 
for any other member of the committee to question whatever he says 
in his statement. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry that the answers to the 
questions did include you gentlemen. I never realized anything like 
that. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 65 

^\'hfit I am driving at is this — — 

The Chairman. The chair is not asking an}^ sympathy m the 
matter. I have nothing to apologize for. 

Mr. Thomas. I understand he got in touch with one of our 
investigators. 

Mr. KoBiNsoN. I would Uke to make this statement, Mr. Chair- 
man. About 2 weeks ago, Mr. Potter spoke to me about this and told 
me he thought it might interfere with OPA. I told him I thought it 
might do so also, and I thought it should be continued for a couple 
of weeks, and I think so now. 

If there is any question about it, I think it should be continued 
now. And so far as Mr. Thomas asking if we did not order this 
investigation, I want to tell him llefinitely that I had nothing to do 
with ordering it. 

Mr. Thomas. You voted for it^ — you voted for it twice. 

Mr. Robinson. I did not vote for it. I have been sitting around 
here for 2 days to find out what it is all about, and yet I do not know 
what it is about. 

Mr. MuRDOCK. My name has not been mentioned. In connection 
with this, Mr. Potter did not consult with me, but if he had, I should 
have been sure to suggest that these hearings be postponed. 

Mr. Potter. I went to see you, sir, but you were out of your office. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr. MuNDT. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask. a question while 
we are in this good, jolly mood. I would like to ask Mr. Potter how 
it happens that as the official liaison officer of the OPA, in conducting 
the business of his office, he simply goes around and talks to Demo- 
cratic members of the committee. He didn't come to see any Repub- 
licans at all. 

Mr. Potter. Well, sir, if he — if you want to have an explanation of 
that, I should be glad to give it. 

Mr. MuNDT. I would like to have it. 

Mr. Potter. I looked over the votmg record of the members of 
the committee on legislative matters favorable to or against price 
control, and I consulted the members who had voted favorably to 
price control because I noticed that some of the others voted against 
us on every step of the bill. 

Mr. MuNDT. You must not have looked up my record, because I 
happen to have voted for OPA. 

Mr. Potter. Well, I apologize. [Laughter.] 

Mr. MuNDT. I am glad you did not come to me. I don't believe 
in having officials come in trying to tell us what to do, and if any- 
body on the part of OPA had come to my office, you would not have 
received very friendly reception. But I wondered how I happened 
to be missed. I thought you were the liaison officer between OPA 
and all Members of Congress, not just Democratic members of Con- 
gress and the OPA. 

Air. Potter. Well, sir, I happen to be a registered Republican 
myself, but I am very much interested in inflation control. I believe 
in it thoroughl}^ and I was trying to serve that interest, sir. 

Mr. MuNDT. So am I. I voted for OPA. 

The Chairman. Any further questions of Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Adamson. For the information of all the members of the com- 
mittee, Mr. Potter I will ask you why you never requested any 
adjournment of these hearings thiough me, did you? 



66 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Potter. No. 

Mr. Robinson. Wliat difference does that make? 

Mr. Potter. I talked to the Chairman. I thought he was the 
proper person to talk to. 

The Chairman. Is that all, Mr. Adamson? 

Mr. Adamson. That is all I have. 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter. Yesterday the question was raised about the suitabil- 
ity of Standard Brands, Inc., financing a show of this type for the 
Government and I called attention to the activities 

The Chairman (interposing). Let me say this: This inquiry does 
not include the propriety of business organizations sustaining programs 
in the hands of the Government, set let us not go into that. It has no 
part in this hearing. This hearing is devoted to a single subject: 
Whether or not the broadcasts were of a subversive nature, and I wish 
we could get down to the heart of the subject and let us find out 
whether they were or not. 

Mr. Potter. Does that conclude with me? 

The Chairman. Yes, Mr. Potter. Thank you. 

The committee will adjourn until next Wednesday morning at 10 
o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 11:20 a. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m. 
Wednesday, June 27, 1945.) 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA 
ACTIVITIES IN THE UNITED STATES 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 27, 1945 

House of Representatives, 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. John E. Rankin presiding. 

Mr. Rankin. The committee will come to order. The chairman 
had to go away on some other matter this morning and asked me to 
preside. 

Mr. Adamson, you have some matters that you wish to take up 
this morning? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. 1 would like to call Mr. McDavitt. 

Mr. Rankin. Mr. McDavitt, will you be sworn? 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE V. McDAVITT, INVESTIGATOR, COM- 
MITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

(The witness was duly sworn by Mr. Rankin.) 

Air. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I now have from the Civil Service 
Commission an official letter which I shouldlike to read into the record, 
to save time. This is dated June 23, 1945, and reads as follows: 

Pursuant to Mr. McDavitt's telephone request of Mr. F. W. Luikart, Chief of 
our Investigations Division, there is attached a copy of the report of investigation 
in the case of Mr. Max Mencher. Mr. Mencher is an employee of the Office of 
Price .\dniinistration in New York City. As Mr. McDavitt was advised by Mr. 
Luikart, the names of witnesses have been deleted from the report. Witnesses 
are referred to as confidential information of the Civil Service Commission. 

Mr. McDavitt also requested hiformation concerning Mr. Tex Weiner, another 
employee of the OPA in New York City. Our records show that he claimed 
December 28, 1912, as the date of birth in his civil-service papers. With regard 
to his education he stated that he attended prelaw night school at Temple Univer- 
sity in 1932. The exact dates were not indicated and he did not claim graduation. 
He claimed that he attended National University for 3 years in day school from 
1934 to 1937 and received an LL. B. degree. He also claimed .to have attended 
the Dramatic Work Shop in 1939 and to have 1 year of playwriting seminar. 

There is also attached a copy of the announcement for the position of program 
director in the Office of Price Administration under which Mr. Weiner was exam- 
ined and rated. You will note' that there are no educational requirements 
specified in the announcement. Therefore, the Commission did not verify his 
educational claim as a part of its examuiation. His educational claim would have 
been verified if his schooling had been within the 5-year period covered by the 
investigation or if it had been a requirement for the position. 

If an applicant for a responsible position deliberately furnished mishi formation 
to the Commission in the belief that by so doing he will enhance his chances of 
appointment, the Commission would rate him ineligible on character groimds. 
If the fact that such information had been furnished came to the Commission's 
attention subsequent to the applicant's appomtment, we would normally require 
his separation. 

67 



68 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

The examination announcement does specify that appHcants must have had 5 
years of comprehensive and progressively reasonable experience in certain fields. 
Accordingly, the Commission's investigation was devoted to the establishment of 
Mr. Weiner's possession or lack of the experience requirements for the position 
and he was found to be qualified. 

We hope that this furnishes you the information you want. If we can be of 
any further help, please let us know. 

Then, annexed to that 

Mr. Rankin (interposing). Who signed that letter? 

Mr. Adamson. The letter is signed by William C. Hull, executive 
assistant. Attached thereto is a mimeographed advertisement, I 
suppose, or a circular, which describes the job in question. I wish 
to offer this as one of the exhibits for .the record. 

(The paper referred to, announcing an open competitive examina- 
tion for the position of program director, was marked "Exhibit 13.") 

United States Civil Service Commission, Recruiting Circular 2R-65, Form 57 

Open Competitive Examination for the Position of Program Director, 

Office of Price Administration 

Salary, $2,800 a year, plus overtime pay 

Overtime pay: The standard Federal workweek of 48 hours includes 8 hours 
of overtime. The increase in compensation for overtime amounts on an annual 
basis to approximately 21 percent of the part of the basic salary not in excess of 
$2,900 a year. 

for duty in the second region 

Comprising the States of Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and 
Pennsylvania, and the District of Columbia. Regional Headquarters: New York 
City. 

Closing date. — Applications will be received until the needs of the service have 
been met. 

Duties. — Under the supervision of the regional information executive, is respon- 
sible for formulating plans for promotional programs of the Office of Price Adminis- 
tration and for the working out of details for the promulgation thereof, conferring 
frequently with various division heads in the agency as well as in other govern- 
mental, civic, and private organizations; is responsible for the preparation, on own 
initiative, of speeches and addresses for delivery by OPA executives, involving- 
conferences with executives and the establishment of contracts with heads of other 
organizations in order to readily obtain pertinent data for speeches; writes radio 
addresses and prepares radio programs when representatives of the OPA are 
invited to participate; determines on own initiative, dates when a radio address 
by an OPA official would be propitious in the public interest, and makes plans for 
such broadcast; establishes and maintains good relations with the various broad- 
casting studios; organizes meetings and is responsible for the selection of the 
proper speaker, requiring close contacts with the various groups and with the 
numerous speakers available for outside speaking engagements; is responsible for 
the selection of the subject material to be incorporated in such public addresses 
and the subsequent preparation of the address. 

Minimum qualifications. — Applicants must have had 5 years of comprehensive 
and progressively responsible experience in (1) writing or editing for a metro- 
politan newspaper, national magazine, news or information service operating on 
a national scale, college or university agricultural extension service, or Federal or 
State department or agency; or (2) radio broadcasting, including educational or 
informational radio work requiring the preparation or the supervision of the 
preparation of educational or informational radio manuscripts and the manag- 
ing and broadcasting or recording for broadcasting of radio programs ; or (3) adver- 
tising experience as a copy writer or account executive which must have been 
experience involving use of varied media; or (4) informational or public relations 
experience with such agencies as civic or governmental organizations or with 
public or private educational institutions; or (5) any combination of the above 
types of experience. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 69 

The experience offered <o meet this requirement must have been of such scope 
and extent of responsihiUty as to demonstrate conclusively the ability to perform 
the duties of this jiosition. Api:)Iicants must have demonstrated ability to meet 
and deal satisfactorily with the public. 

Cilizenship, age and physical requirements 

1. Api)licants must be citizens of or owe allegiance to the United States. 
Forcisn-born applicants must furnish proof of citizenship. 

2. There are no age limits for this position. 

3. Applicants must be physically capable of performing the duties of the 
position and be free from such defects or diseases as would constitute employment 
hazards to themselves or danger to their fellow employees. Persons with physical 
handicaps which they believe will not prevent their satisfactory performance of 
the duties stated above are invited to apply. 

General information 

1. No written test is required. Applicants' qualifications will be judged from a 
review of sworn statements as to their experience, and on corroborative evidence 
secured by the Commission. 

2. For appointments in the executive branch of the Federal Government 
preference is granted, under the act of June 18, 1929, to honorably discharged 
members of the armed forces of the United States, including members of the 
Women's Reserves of the United States Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard; 
members of the Women's Army Corps created by Public Law 110, approved 
July 1, 1943. The widows of honorably discharged deceased veterans, and the 
wives of certain honorably discharged disabled veterans are also entitled to 
consideration for preference benefits. 

3. Preference will be given in certification to eligibles residing in the area 
served by the second region office of the Office of Price Administration. 

4. The department or office requesting list of eligibles has the legal right to 
specify the sex desired. 

5. Appointments will be known as War Service appointments. Such appoint- 
ments generally will be for the duration of the war and in no case will extend more 
than 6 months beyond the end of the war. 

6. All salaries are subject to a deduction of 5 percent for retirement annuity. 

7. Appointments in the Federal service are made in accordance with War 
Manpower Commission policies, directives, regulations, and employment stabili- 
zation plans. This means generally that persons employed in certain activities 
or occupations may be required to obtain statements of availability from their 
emploj-ers or from the United States Employment Service before they can be 
appointed. An offer of Federal appointment wll be accompanied by instructions 
as to what steps the person must take to secure necessary clearance. Statements 
of availability should not be secured until an offer of appointment is received. 

8. Inclusion of a position on this notice does not mean that vacancies exist for 
that specific position at present, but that vacancies in that and similar positions 
w-ill be filled as they occur from applications on file. 

How to apply 

1. Applicants miist file the forms and material listed below, all properly 
executed, with the Director, Second United States Civil Service Region, Federal 
Building, Christopher Street, New York 14, N. Y.: 

A. Application Form 57. 

B. Form 14 with the evidence it calls for, if applicants desire to claim preference 
because of military or naval service. 

2. The necessary forms may be obtained at any first- or second-class post office 
in which this notice is posted, or from the Director, Second United States Civil 
Service Region, Federal Building, Christopher Street, New York 14, N. Y.; 
Third United States Civil Service District, Customhouse, Second and Chestnut 
Streets, Philadelphia 6, Pa.; Fourth United States Civil Service Region, Nissen 
Building, Winston-Salem 3, N. C. 

The exact title of the examination, as given at the head of this recruiting 
circular, should be stated in the application form. 

Director, Second United States Civil Service Region, 

Federal Building, Christopher Street, 

New York 14, N. Y. 



70 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

United States Civil Service Commission — Closing Amendment to Recruiting 

Circular 2R-64 

Notice of Closing Date for Receipt of Applications for Program Director, 

Office of Price Administration 

Salary, $3,800 a year, plus overtime pay 

FOR DUTY IN THE SECOND REGION 

Comprising the States of Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, and 
Pennsylvania, and the District of Columbia. Regional Headquarters: New York 
City. 

Closing date.- — Applications will no longer be accepted for the position indicated 
above as of July 27, 1944. 

Full particulars regarding the examination were furnished in the original recruit- 
ing circular 2R-64, issued April 19, 1944. 

Director, Second United States Civil Service Region, 

Federal Building, Christopher Street, 

New York 14, N. Y. 

Mr. Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I don't see the purpose of that. 
I am going along with making a record, but I can't see the purpose of 
this record. I can't see that it would have any effect on this investi- 
gation. 

Mr. Rankin. It has already been read. 

Mr. Robinson. And having had it read 

Mr. Rankin (interposing). It is already in the record. The 
stenographer has been taking it down. 

Mr. MuNDT. What is your objection, Mr. Robinson? 

Mr. Robinson. I would like to sometime or other get something 
connected with something. I thought what we were examining was 
someone for un-American activities, not to see whether the Civil 
Service Commission was passing on somebody's application for a job, 
or something of that sort. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw the offer of the 
letter and merely offer the circular, which describes the job officially 
which Mr. Weiner holds. 

Mr. Robinson. I think that is superfluous. There is no question 
about what job he holds, is there? 

Mr. Rankin. You object to that going into the record? 

Mr. Robinson. I don't want to make any objection, but I do 
think we ought to sometime get down to finding out what this is all 
about. 

Mr. Rankin. I thought that was w^hat counsel was doing. 

Mr. Robinson. If that is what it is about, then we haven't any 
jurisdiction in the matter.- We are not an examining committee to 
see whether he passed a civil-service examination properly, or whether 
he was properly admitted to the job or anything of that sort. That 
has nothing to do with un-American activities. 

Mr. Adamson. This will show that this man had falsified in his 
civil-service application. Certainly to my mind that would go a long 
way toward at least weighing his qualifications in the first instance. 

Mr. Robinson. The Civil Service passed on his qualifications, as I 
understand it. He may be the poorest kind of a radio operator in the 
world, but it is not our concern. 

Mr. Peterson. He might be engaged in un-American activities. 

Mr. Robinson. The question is whether or not he did something 
that was subversive and un-American. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 71 

Mr. Rankin. I think counsel contends this is laying tlie foundation. 
Mr. Robinson. All right; I will be patient. 
Mr. Rankin. My Supreme Court once said: 

Trifles light, as air may be fraught with deadly meaning when taken in connec- 
tion with the facts and circumstances in a given case. 

So I am gohig to admit that statement, the letter, to the record. 
The letter has already been read into the record by counsel. All 
right, Mr. Adamson. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt, before we get into the case of Mr. 
Weiner 

Mr. Rankin (interposing). It might be a good idea for counsel to 
state to the committee what he is attempting to establish. That is 
what the gentleman from Utah had in mind. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Chairman, at the last hearing, which you will 
recall was stopped early in the day, due to the fact that the House 
was meeting at 11 o'clock, Mr. Woolley, of the New York regional 
office, testified that he had no power to discharge employees. I would 
like to ask Mr. McDavitt one question on that subject, due to a 
development that has come up since the last hearing, and has been 
communicated to our office; therefore I think we have to take some 
notice of it. 

Mr. McDavitt, did you hear Mr. Woolley testify at the last hear- 
ing? 

Mr. McDavitt. That I did. 

Mr. Adamson. Did you hear Mr. Woolley say that he had no 
power to discharge employees in the regional office? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us what happened the day following 
Mr. Woolley's appearance here? 

Mr. McDavitt. Tlfe following morning he discharged — or the fol- 
lo"v\^ng afternoon he discharged Mr. Paul A. Ross, who is the regional 
enforcement attorney in charge of enforcement for the five States 
under region 2. 

Mr. Robinson. What has that got to do with this? Suppose he 
discharged the whole outfit? 

Mr. MuNDT. To me it makes a lot of difference whether lie is tell- 
ing the truth or not. If he tells one thing in the morning and it is 
made out a lie in the afternoon, I am interested in it. 

Mr. Rankin. It means this, Mr. Robinson: If there is anyone on 
the pay roll of this organization that is guilty of un-American activi- 
ties, the gentleman has the same right to discharge him that he had 
to discharge other employees, and I suppose that is what counsel is 
bringing out. 

^Ir. Adamson. I understood Mr. Woolley took the position at the 
last hearing that even if he did know about some activities of Mr. 
Weiner that he didn't like, he could not fire him anyway. Now, I 
think he stated that very clearly in the last hearing. He said the rea- 
son he couldn't take the step to cure the trouble was because of the 
Civil Service regulations, that he had no power to discharge him. 

Mr. Rankin. All right, go ahead. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. AIcDavitt, had you attempted to verify 
the statements which were made by Mr. Weiner in connection with 
his application for employment by the regional office in New York 
of the OPA? 



72 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. McDavitt. I have. 

Mr. Adamson. Have you contacted Temple University?. 

Mr. McDavitt. I did. 

Mr. Adamson. Did Temple University tell you that they had ever 
had a student by the name of Tex Herman Weiner, born in Decem- 
ber 1912? 

Mr. McDavitt. Temple University stated that as far as their 
records indicated, they never had had a student by the name of Tex 
Herman Weiner; they did have a party by the name of Herman 
Weiner. However, this fellow was born July 4, 1906. 

Mr. Rankin. Apparently a different man. 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. Now, on the question of his degree at National Uni- 
versity, where is the main office of National University? 

Mr. Adamson. Have you visited that main office? 

Mr. McDavitt. I have. 

Mr. Adamson. Tell us what the record that you inspected there 
showed in regard to Mr. Weiner. 

Mr. Robinson. Mr. Chairman, I don't like to be obnoxious, but 
in the first place this is 

Mr. Rankin (interposing). Now, let me say to the gentleman from 
Utah, we are operating under the rules of the House, and in this in- 
vestigation we are trying to proceed under the rules of evidence. 

Mr. Robinson. This is not evidence. 

Mr. Rankin. And if the gentleman from Utah wants to object to 
any of this, any testimony that is offered, or if any other member of 
the committee wants to object to any testimony offered, he may do 
so and I will rule on his objection, but I don't see any reason for 
carrying out a prolonged argument on the proposition. If this man 
had falsified in order to get on the Federal roll, "4 think that is proper 
and material to the question involved. 

Mr. Robinson. If he had falsified, but I think that before we — my 
point is that this is not evidence that he falsified. We have got to 
bring the evidence, the records themselves, here. 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chan man I prefer that Mr. McDavitt testify. 
I want to ask the witness a couple of questions. 

Did anyone get in touch with you and ask you to stop this investiga- 
tion, Mr .^McDavitt? 

Mr. McDavitt. Do I have to answer? 

Mr. Rankin. You are supposed to. 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. Tell them all you know, Mr. McDavitt. You are 
under oath. Tell him everything you know. 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. 

Mr. Thomas. And did they in their conversation with you offer 
any sum of money in order to get you to stop the investigation? 

Mr. McDavitt. They spoke of a sum of money, $5,000, referring 
to my financial status, asking me how I was doing, and that $5,000 
was a lot of money. They didn't stop there. I said, "I am not 
interested in any stipend of that size for any purpose whatsoever." 
In the beginning I thought that somebody was merely calling me to 
have a joke. That is the way I treated it, and after I treated them 
rather cooly, they said "We will smear yom* face so your wife won't 
know you." 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 73 

Mr. Rankin. Mr. McDavitt, before you go any further, was that 
since you have been employed as an investigator of this committee? 

Mr. McDavitt. That was approximately 3 weeks ago at this time. 
They referred to the investigation. 

Mr. Robinson. Who is "they"? 

Mr. McDavitt. I received a telephone communication and the 
conversation ran in this manner: "Are you Mr. McDavitt who has 
been investigating down at OPA?" To which I said "Yes." I said 
"Who is calling?" They said "This is a friend of yours. I under- 
stand that you have had previous relations with the Office of Price 
Administration." I said "That is true." They said "Well, you 
know how to handle things like that. You can hold this report up 
for a few days. You can change the material in it. You know 
$5,000 is a lot of money." I said "I don't understand what you 
mean." He said "Well, I think you do." 

Mr. Thomas. Mr. Chairman, I bring this matter up to point out 
that the enemies of this committee and the persons who are trying to 
stop this investigation will stop at absolutely nothing; therefore I am 
in favor of going through and bringing out every bit of evidence that 
we can possibly touch upon. Eveiy thing is relevant in this case. 

Mr. Rankin. Go ahead and answer the question. 

Mr. McDavitt. There are other things said which I do not recall 
verbatim, but I do remember that on toward the end he said "We 
will smear you so your wife won't recognize your face." I still thought 
it was a joke and paid little attention to it until the night. before the 
20th of this month — that was the 19th — on that evening I met a 
Member of Congress, and that Member of Congress said: "I have 
been visited by an assistant of Mr. Bowles, who states that an in- 
vestigator" 

Mr. Robinson (interposing). Let us have the facts. Tell us his 
name. 

Mr. McDavitt. Mr. Peterson. And he said: "I was visited today 
by an assistant of Mr. Bowles who stated that an investigator of our 
committee went out and proceeded to get two girls intoxicated and 
treated them in a deplorable manner." 

Mr. Peterson. I didn't say "intoxicated." I said took them out 
and had cocktails. 

* Mr. McDavitt. That's right; and indicated that the processes 
employed by the investigator of this committee were incorrect and 
ungentlemanly, which of course they were not. 

Air. Robinson. You state the facts; we will draw the conclusions. 

Mr. Thomas. Let us get the facts, Mr. McDavitt. 

Mr. Rankin. \A'hen you say "Mr. Peterson" you mean Mr. Peter- 
son, of Florida here? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rankin. There are two Petersons in the House. 

Mr. McDavitt. This was Mr. Peterson of Florida. 

Mr. Adamson. He is sitting right here looking at you now. 

Mr. McDavitt. That's right. It so happens that the last night 
that I was at the Office of Price Administration- 

Mr. Robinson (interposing). Let us get this straight now. In 
other words, you say that Mr. Peterson told you that you 

Mr. McDavitt (interposing). No, sir. I didn't say that — that an 
investigator from the committee. 



74 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Robinson. That an investigator from the committee told him 
that you were the investigator that had two girls out? 

Mr. McDavitt. No; he said that an investigator from the com- 
mittee had the girls out. / 

Mr. Robinson. Who was the investigator? 

Mr. McDavitt. I mentioned no names. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Robinson, I would like to say for the record 
that the only investigator that I have sent down there to the OPA 
is Mr. McDavitt. To the best of my knowledge he is the only one. 
If another went do^vn., he went down without my knowledge or 
mstruction. 

Mr. Pete-rson. Maybe I can clear this. I meant Mr. McDavitt. 
An OPA man told me about it, and I said to Mr. McDavitt "Some- 
one from OPA told me the other day that one of our investigators 
took a couple of girls home and intoxicated them." Then Mr. 
McDavitt kind of smiled and said, "I guess I was the one." But at 
that time I had no idea who it was. 

Mr. Robinson. Do you have any idea now who it was? 

Mr. Peterson. Mr. McDavitt said he is the one. 

Mr. Adamson. He is the only investigator we have, 

Mr. Peterson. I didn't know who he was talking about, but he 
said it was he. Then he related his side of it. 

Mr. Thomas. Who was the man from the OPA? 

Mr. Peterson. Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Adamson. I think Mr. Potter mentioned Mr. Peterson's name 
the other day. 

Mr. Peterson. 1 think probably he was making a mountain out of 
mole hill. This came up about the time the legislation was coming up, 
and he thought it might embarrass the legislation. Then he said one 
of our investigators he found had nitoxicated a couple of girls and took 
them home, and I said, "Well, what is all this about?" And the 
investigator shrugged his shoulders and said, "The bill is coming up." 
I happened to meet Commander Nicholas and Mr. McDavitt as I 
was walking down to have supper, and they were coming this way, and 
I just smiled and told them that. I never thought it was of any great 
consequence, up to then they were telling the fact that they were 
having cocktails with the girls. Then they shrugged their shoulders 
and said, "The bill is coming up." Then Mr. McDavitt smiled and 
said, "I was the one." Well, I didn't know you were the one at the 
time. 

Mr. Adamson. For your information, Mr. Peterson — I think you 
were not present at the last hearing when Mr. Potter testified? 

Mr. Peterson. No; I was not there. I had another meeting. 

Mr. Adamson. In answer to my question he stated very frankly 
that he had not asked me for any adjournment of any of these hearings. 

Mr. Peterson. He didn't ask me for an adjournment. ^ 

Mr. Adamson. My thought is we are chasing off on a lot of immate- 
rial matters. Every member of this committee this morning has 
other committee meetings, and if we can just get the gist of the thing 
that is what we want. We are losing a lot of time running around on 
immaterial things. 

Mr. Thomas. My reason for bringing up the question was to show 
that all kinds of stumbling blocks have been put in the way of this 
investigation. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 75 

Mr. Peterson. That is true in all investigations. You can always 
expect that. 

Mr. Thomas. I didn't want to take it lying down. I just wanted to 
show them we mean business. 

Mr. Peterson. That is true in all kinds of investigations. The 
man that is investigating is, as a rule, handicapped. 

Mr. MuNDT. I can't think of any better way to make progress than 
to let the witness testify. 

Mr. Peterson. They brought my name into it, and I wanted to 
make that statement. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Potter, I think, is the gentleman who dragged 
your name into it originally, Mr. Peterson, at the last hearing. 

IMr. Peterson. Yes. I was not there. I don't know what he said, 
but he came to my office and tried to indicate that this thing was com- 
ing up because the bill was coming up. 

Mr. Adamson. I thinlv that is what he said, in substance, in his 
testimony, that he went to see several Members and told them that 
this might impede or interfere with consideration of the OPA bill. 

Mr. McDavitt, you said you went to the main office of National 
University and inspected their records regarding tliis student, Tex 
Herman Weiner? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. . • 

Mr. Adamson. And they permitted you to look at the records, 
did they? 

Mr. ^IcDavitt. They did. 

Mr. Adamson. Do the records show that Tex Herman Weiner 
received an LL. B. degree or any other degree from that university? 

Mr. McDavitt. The records show that he did not graduate, that 
he did not receive a degree. And there were three reasons for that. 
He did not attend sufficient terms — he was supposed to attend nine 
and he attended eight. The second one was, he never certified to 
them that he graduated from high school, and the tliu'd was that he 
owed tuition for two of the years, $350, wliich he had never paid. 

Mr. Adamson. So that, so far as his statements concerning the 
LL. B. are concerned, that is untrue? 

Mr. McDavitt. It is inaccurate. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. McDavitt, have you contacted employees 
of the OWI and the OPA here in Washington? 

Mr. McDavitt. I have. 

Mr. Adamson. And one of the statements made on Mr. Weiner's 
employment application was that he had previously been employed 
by 0\\I. ^\hat have 3^ou to say with regard to that statement? 

Mr. McDavitt. Investigation of the records by the Office of War 
Information failed to reveal that Mr. ^\emer had ever been emploj'ed 
by them; and further, his superior, a man by the name of Newman, 
the records also were inspected, and they found no employment 
under that name either for Mr. Newman. 

Mr. Adamson. Have 3^ou talked with persons both in New York 
and in \\ ashington who have been in contact and have done business 
with Mr. AVeiner? 

Mr. McDavitt. I have. 

Mr. Adamson. I believe you told me that you had contacted a 
woman in New York who had been closely associated with Mr. 
Weiner in business. Is that correct? 



76 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. McDavitt. That is true. 

Mr. Adamson. And what did she tell you concerning Mr. Weiner's 
political activities and his declaration concerning his political beliefs? 

Mr. McDavitt. I contacted a Mrs. Blanche Talbot of New York 
City, who during the years 1942 and 1943 had some relationships in 
a professional way with Mr. Weiner. She is an agent's playwright. 
Authors of plays bring her script and then she proceeds to put them 
on the market, or tries to sell the script for the office. One of the 
scripts which Mr. Weiner furnished Mrs. Talbot to promote for 
him 

Mr. Adamson (interposing). Wait just a minute, Mr. McDavitt. 
Let's get one important point. Did this lady tell you that Mr. 
Weiner openly and notoriously declared himself to believe in the 
Communist political faith? 

Mr. McDavitt. He was consistently promoting communistic 
ideas. He also brought consistently literature of a communistic 
nature, and said: 

Some day I will be a big man in this country and I will probably be Ambassador 
to Russia. 

Mr. Adamson. And did he openly declare to her in the presence of 
other people that he adhered to the Communist principles? 

Mr. McDavitt. He had on many occasions stated that he believed 
in the communistic ideas and communistic form of government, 

Mr. Adamson. Now go ahead where you left off. 

Mr. McDavitt. On one particular script which he furnished Mrs. 
Talbot to promote for him, she described it as shocking and filthy, 
and she informed him that she would have nothing to do with this 
type of script. At that particular time reference was made to the 
Bible, and Mr. Weiner said — I have the quotation here — Mrs. Talbot 
said she was a firm believer in God, and that such script was contrary 
to her convictions, to which Mr. Weiner replied: 

Well, take the Bible, for instance, of which you have previously spoken. That 
book is the dirtiest, most immoral book ever written, and there are no clean 
women in it. 

This conversation so infuriated Mrs. Talbot that she began to see less 
and less of Mr. Weiner, and from that time on they broke oft' relations. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. McDavitt, coming back here to Washing- 
ton, have you talked with anyone in the OWI concerning Mr. Weiner's 
communistic beliefs? 

Mr. McDavitt. I have spoken with the executive publicity 
director of OWI. 

Mr. Adamson. And did he tell you in substance the same thing 
about Mr. Weiner? 

Mr. McDaviit. He stated that his feeling durmg his relationship 
with Mr. Weiner, which extended back over several years, was that 
Mr. Weiner's ideas were to the left definitely, and troublesome on 
many occasions. 

Mr. Adamson. Is it true that you have talked with quite a number 
of the OPA employees who have charged particularly 

Mr. Rankin. What is that question? 

Mr. Adamson. You have talked with many employees of the OPA, 
not OWI, here in Washington ; these people have charge particularly 
of these radio scripts? Is that true, Mr. McDavitt? 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 77 

Mr. McDavitt. That is true. 

Mr. Adamson. And who arc the people down there with who you 
iave talked, who have charge of these duties, to censor these scripts 
■or^edit them, whatever they call it? 

Mr. McDavitt. The first day I went there I met Mr. Herbert 
Little, in charge of publicity. I told him that jve had had some 
complaint in respect to the program, and he said that — 

Due to the fact that I have only been here since January of this year, I would 
like to have you talk with Miss Daubinspeck, who is in charge of the radio script 
clearance office. 

Miss Daubinspeck was brought in, and from that time on most of the 
information was secured through the cooperation of Miss Daubinspeck 
in respect to the programs. 

Mr. Adamson. Has the office here in Washington, the OPA Office, 
been cooperative and accommodating in dealing with you? 

Mr. McDavitt. They have been very decent and very cooperative 
and very fine. 

Mr. Adamson. And you have experienced no delay and no inter- 
ference, so far as the subordinate employees are concerned in the 
OPA office here? 

Mr. McDavitt. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Adamfon. Can you tell us briefly 

Mr. Rankin (interposing), I don't understand that this is any 
investigation of the OPA. 

Mr. Adamson. No; I just wanted to show 

Mr. Rankin (interposing). This is an investigation of an individual 
who is alleged to be subversive. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, I tliink that question is necessary, Mr. Chair- 
man, for this reason: These people have made available to Mr. 
McDa\att their files and have shown him their criticisms and com- 
ments against Mr. Weiner on this very point of his radio scripts, and 
I wanted to make it clear that Mr. McDavitt did not obtain those 
papers by any unfair methods. They have cooperated fully and 
shown them to him. 

Mr. Rankin. That bears out what I have said. Someone said a 
while ago that it has been charged that this investigation was to 
affect the bill pending in Congress. Not only it is not for that pur- 
pose, but it has no effect on it whatsoever. As I understand it, we 
are investigating individuals who are alleged to be subversive, whose 
activities are alleged to be subversive. 

Mr. Adamson. That is right. It seems to me we are commending 
the subordinates of 0|*A here, Mr. Chairman, instead of condemning 
them. 

Mr. Rankin. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt informs me that they have given him 
every cooperation down there, everything below Mr. Potter's office. 

Mr. Rankin. I agree with that, but I wanted to make clear what 
this investigation is for. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. McDavitt, have they allowed you not only 
to read Mr. Weiner's script since he was employed by OPA, but have 
they also arranged for you to listen to the electrical transcription of 
these plays as they were put out over the radio? 

Mr. AIcDavitt. Yes; they have. 



78 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. And you have compared them? 

Mr. McDavitt. I have. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, going back to his statement about the Bible, 
I beheve 3?t)u called my attention to a remark in one of his scripts 
about the Bible. Have you got that handy there? 

Mr. McDavitt. In one of his earlier scripts, a program in respect to 
hotel and rooming-house operations under the regulations, it is neces- 
sary for the proprietor of the establishment, or an employee, to hang 
in each room the price for that room, either single or double, and during 
the script it ran something like this: "Where will we hang this?" The 
reply in the script "Put it in the Bible. Nobody looks in there." 

Mr. Adamson. All right. Now, let us get onto 

Mr. Robinson (interposing). Is there anything un-American in 
that? 

Mr. Adamson. We don't know. We submit that to the committee 
merely for the purpose of hooking up with the criticism that this 
woman in New York who was formerly associated with him had 
made. 

Mr. McDavitt, did you talk with a gentleman down in OPA by the 
name of Van Brunt? 

Mr. McDavitt. I did not talk with Mr. Van Brunt. I merely 
reviewed his criticisms of the various scripts which Mr. Weiner had 
sent to the Washington office for clearance. 

Mr. Adamson. Can you tell us what Mr. Van Brunt does down 
there? 

Mr. McDavitt. Mr. Van Brunt's specific position is that of liaison 
executive between a specialized group, such as the food group, and the 
planning department or the broadcasting for publicity department. 
He is supposed to be a specialist, and he is supposed to be able to read 
a script and set forth whether the script is within the bounds of the 
regulations and within the objectives of the Administration. 

Mr. Adamson. And this whole memorandum was in the file which 
was exhibited to you at the OPA office? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. What was the date of that particular program? 

Mr. McDavitt. I think this one was February 12, 1945. 

Mr. Adamson. And did they have another one on February 26 
that Mr. Van Brunt criticized? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. Would you read the pencil memoranda written by 
Mr. Van Brunt in connection with that program? 

Mr. McDavitt. This is a memorandum directed to the script clear- 
ance office, and it starts out: 

Again! The whole tone of this script is bad, negative, ugly. Moreover, it 
doesn't prove anything except, perhaps, that the OPA is a Gestapo organization. 
Why can't they get really constructive, educational stories into these programs, 
and a tone that spells good will for OPA, instead of this negative approach? To 
take the same tone as the script, if this depends on my O. K. "It ain't got it 
nohow."' 

Mr. Adamson. What did the OPA and the OWI employees tell 
you with regard to the transmission of Mr. Weiner's scripts to them 
for approval, with regard to the time element? 

Mr. McDavitt. They have had, ever since Mr. Weiner has been 
associated with the Office of Price Administration, continual diffi- 
culty with him in getting his script to OWI and to OPA for clearance. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 79 

Two days is considered a proper time, due to the fact that after they 
receive the script they must refer it to such men as Mr. Van Brunt, 
to see if the script is authoritative, to see if it is telhng the truth, or 
if it is distorting the facts, and if it is in hne with the specific pro- 
gram. Instead of that, Mr. Weiner's scripts have been arriving the 
day of the broadcast, and in one instance the day after the broadcast, 
and in another instance the OWI script clearance offices had to call 
the day of the broadcast for the script, and at that particular time 
Mr. Weiner stated that he had forgotten to send the script. 

In April of this year the situation became so serious that Miss 
Daubinspeck, of OPA, practically refused to have any further con- 
versation wirh Mr. Weiner, and they arranged to have the clearance 
then done through the OWI with Miss Turner. Miss Turner did 
business with Mr. Weiner for 7 weeks and reached the same point 
that Miss Daubinspeck had, she no longer desired to talk with Mr. 
Weiner, because he was a person that no one could talk or reason with. 
During the period that Miss Turner was receiving script, she also 
received script the day after the program. She had to call for the 
script on the day of one program, and she never in her period of 
history with Mr. Weiner received a script previous to the day of the 
broadcast, which makes it almost impossible for them to clear the 
script properly so that it can go over the air at 6:15 at night. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, I suppose you spent a good many hours 
reading and listening to these scripts? 

Mr. McDavitt. Considerable time. 

Mr. Thomas. May I ask a question there? I understand you are 
not just referring to the script of the broadcast Soldiers With Cou- 
pons? You are also referring to all the scripts? 

Mr. McDavitt. I am referring to Soldiers With Coupons, which 
has been the production and w^ritings of Mr. Weiner from the beginning. 

Mr. Thomas. They have always been practically the same thing 
as Soldiers With Coupons? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. Since May of last year they do have a pro- 
gram Hasten the Day, which has been broadcast through OWI and 
which OPA, I think, took over last September, which will run through 
August of this year. That program speciahzes in the feature The 
Tucker Family. There has been no criticism of it, and it has been 
perfectly acceptable to everyone. 

Mr. Adamson. But Mr. Weiner did not write that one? 

Mr. McDavitt. No, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. Who did? 

Mr. McDavitt. Mrs. Gilsdorf, I believe, of Darien, Conn. 

Mr. Adamson. Is it true that on the scripts that do arrive in time^ 
or did arrive in time 

Mr. McDavitt (interposing). There were none that arrived in 
time. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, on the ones that they got in time to make 
editorial comments and mail them back to Mr. Weiner before the show 
went on, when you listened to the mechanical transcript of the pro- 
gram did you find that Mr. Weiner had observed the editorial instruc- 
tions of the Washington office? 

Mr. McDavitt. Very often it appeared to have been ignored. 

Mr. Adamson. He went right ahead and ran the play as he orig- 
inally had written it? 



80 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. 

Mr. Rankin. And nothing was done about it? 

Mr. McDavitt. The employees of the planning program and 
publicity department have protested about the program from time 
to time, practically ever since its inception, had protested about it 
frequently, but apparently nothing was done about it, except I think 
that in February Mr. Woolley took exception to the deletions and 
criticized the national office for their criticism of the Soldiers With 
Coupons program. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt, in order to save time, could you 
summarize Mr. Weiner's whole policy in his script by saying that his 
attitude is one of seeking to create prejudice and hate? 

Mr. Robinson. I would like to have an example of that. 

Mr. Adamson. We will give you examples, Mr. Robinson. 

Mr. Robinson. I want to make that criticism myself. I don't 
want someone to make it for me. 

Mr. Adamson. We can go through it the long way, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Rankin. As I understand it, you are attempting to show that 
this man's broadcasts were subversive and that he changed the broad- 
casts from the script submitted to the head office here in Washington. 

Mr. Adamson. The ones that he did submit, Mr. Chairman, got 
here in time. In each case they were censored by the office here and 
he refused to recognize the censorship. He ran the objectionable 
material just the same. 

Mr. Rankin. It is contended that that objectionable material is 
subversive? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. For example, the witness will point out 
to you here — I will try to have him take a typical example, so as to 
save time — that Mr. Weiner's whole effort seems to be directed 
against classes of citizens and not against violators of OPA regu- 
lations. 

Mr. Thomas. So far as that is concerned, we have got lots of time. 

Mr. Rankin. I am not trying to rush counsel. I was merely 
trying to get before the committee just what we are attempting to 
establish here. 

Mr. Adamson. That is what we are driving at, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. McDavitt, you have a script there that Mr. Potter made some 
mention of in the last hearing, regarding rents. Will you tell us, for 
example, what passage typifies Mr. Weiner's attitude, and also tell 
us whether or not the Washington office ordered that deleted, and 
then tell us whether or not Mr. Weiner ran it just as he had written 
it in the first place? 

Mr. McDavitt. February 12, 1945, quotation: 

Script: As often is the case, tenants do not have high powered lawyers to advise 
them, but they do have the OPA, which is their bulwark against violations. 

This was criticized, due to the fact that the censor was of the 
opinion that it was not necessarily the truth, that it reflected upon 
honest people, and gave the impression that OPA had been created 
for poor people, instead of created to fight inflation. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, go along to that statement about the land- 
lords. 

Mr. Rankin. On that point, did he observe the direction of the 
head office to delete that from his script? 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 81 

Mr. McDavitt. There were two broadcasts on this, I beheve, about 
30 days or 45 days apart. In the original broadcast it was included. 
He used the script again at a later date, setting it forth as a new 
broadcast. 

Mr. Adamson. And once he deleted it and once he ran it? 

Mr. McDavitt. I didn't hear the second record. 

Mr. Robinson. What was the deletion? 

Mr. McDavitt (reading). 

As often is the case, tenants do not have high powered lawyers to advise them, 
but they do have the OPA, which is their bulwark against violations. 

Mr. Robinson. That is the way it was written? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Robinson. And what was deleted? 

Mr. McDavitt. It was not deleted. 

Mr. Rankin. The head office ordered it deleted? 

Mr. McDavitt. They criticized it. 

Mr. Robinson. They criticized it? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. Did they order it deleted? 

Mr. Adamson. They took a pencil and marked around it. 

Mr. Robinson. Did the office order that deleted, or what part of it? 

Mr. McDavitt. The entire thing. 

Mr. Robinson. They ordered the whole thing deleted? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. But you see, they don't order a 
deletion; they just strike it out as not approved, and therefore it is 
not supposed to be used. There is no order that accompanies this 
at all. In other words, when it is stricken out, when it is criticized, 
it is not supposed to be used. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, go down and read to the committee one of 
the statements about one of the expressions about landlords. 

Mr. McDavitt. I will have to look it up to find it. 

]Mr. Adamson. I believe that in that same text you are referring 
to there is a paragraph that was also censored, which indicts the 
landlord as a chiseler and a cheat. Is that correct? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Robinson. Let us have the language. 

Mr. Adamson. Well, here is another one, Mr. McDavitt, in the same 
broadcast, the same script. There is a paragraph at the end of that 
script which I would like for you to read to the committee and tell the 
committee what happened to that one when it was transcribed — "The 
overwhelming majority of landlords." 

Mr. McDavitt (reading): 

The overwhelming majority of landlords are patriotically cooperating with the 
OPA, and the few that try to evade the law make it harder for the landlords who 
play square with his tenants. 

That was included in the paragraph which Mr. Woolley was to give 
at the conclusion of the program. However, that was in the original 
script which was returned to New York. It was deleted and not given 
out over the air and was not in the transcription. However, at the end 
af the program the announcer did give the name of the author, the 
name of the producer, and the name of each and every character in the 
program. 



82 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. So that one of the paragraphs that was approved, 
which you have just read here, was deleted from the program when it 
went out over the air? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. But he did include the paragraphs that were critical 
and detrimental to all landlords? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Robinson. What does it say? You say "critical to landlords." 
Read it. 

Mr. Adamson. If you can find that paragraph I want you to read it. 

Mr. McDavitt. On page 14 of the same script, the character is 
Harry and runs like this: 

Harry: He is kidding. Listen, Tony, he can't increase the rent. There has 
been a rent freeze. No one can be put out if he pays his rent. That's OPA law. 

This was censored, due to the fact, that under certain conditions 
the landlord may increase the rent, and again under certain conditions 
other than the prompt payment of rent, a person may be put out of 
the premises. This paragraph tended to give the wrong impression. 

Mr. Robinson. Was it deleted? 

Mr. McDavitt. I heard it. 

Mr. Adamson. It was not deleted. 

Mr. Robinson. Is there anything subversive about that? 

Mr. Thomas. You object to somebody drawing the conclusion? 

Mr. Robinson. I will withdraw the question. 

Mr. McDavitt. The only thing is 

Mr. Rankin (interposing). What we are going to investigate is 
un-American activities, and that is what I am waiting for him to 
develop. 

Mr. Robinson. Go ahead. 

Mr. Rankin. What I am interested in is whether or not this indi- 
vidual, or any individual, under investigation, is guilty of un-American 
activities. 

Mr. Robinson. I am both landlord and tenant, and I believe I 
can say the same thing that is said there and feel all right about it. 

Mr. Adamson. Do you have photostats there of some of the 
transcripts that were censored? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. I would like to show to the committee the photostat 
of the form in which these scripts were sent back to New York. Mr. 
Robinson has brought up the point that he thinks there should be an 
order censoring them. Well, we don't know whether they ever issued 
any order, but that is how the stuff looked after they finished with it. 
[Indicating.] 

Mr. Rankin. And the records show how they performed. 

Mr. McDavitt. On page 11 is a transcription which was given to' 
us as it had been broadcast and mailed to us. 

Mr. Adamson. What is the date? 

Mr. McDavitt. It is dated May 15, 1925: 

Sure thing, Joe. OPA was set up for little guys like you and me. 

This was criticized, due to the fact that OPA was not set up fof 
little guys but was set up with the objective of inflationary control. 

Mr. Adamson. On the point of the general policy of this man 
Weiner, Mr. McDavitt, did you find that for quite a long time in his 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 83 

scrips he made his opening statement to the effect that the OPA was 
set up to fight fascism? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And did the OPA employees here in Washington 
ask him to change that to "inflation"? 

Mr. McDavitt. That had been a source of difficulty for some 
months. 

Mr. Adamson. Did they ask him to change that to "inflation"? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Did he change it? 

Mr. McDavitt. Not until a few w^eeks ago, when Miss Turner of 
OWI insisted that it had to be changed, after 3 months of squabbling. 

Mr. Adamson. I offer these photostats, four in number, as exhibits 
for the record. 

(The four photostats of a script on rent control were marked 
"Exhibit 14.") 

k Exhibit 14 

WooLLEY. * * * rent control came into effect. This step was taken by 
OPA to stabilize rents * * * to prevent inflation. * * * Yot the spiral 
of inflation was beginning to skyrocket in many defense-rental areas. It also 
became necessary to protect the occupancy of tenants * * * to safeguard 
their health and prevent indiscriminate evictions. Rent control has worked and 
the OPA has held the line on rents. 

A great many landlords patriotically complied with all the OPA rent regula- 
tions. However, many tenants soon found themselves harassed by petty viola- 
tions, threatened with illegal evictions and grafts by superintendents and land- 
lords' agents. As often is the case * * * tenants do not have high-powered 
lawyers to advise them * * * but they do have the OPA * * * which 
is their bulwark against violations. To bring home what this means * * * 
let's take one of the cases in the files of the OPA * * * showing a typical 
American famil.y and its rent problems. I'd like to tell you about the Genaro 
family. As our story opens (FADE) the Genaro family are saying goodbye to 
their friends. * * * 

Tony. Hey, Harry! 

Harry'. (Off mike:) Hyah Tonj'. Come on over. Hello Peg, all set for those 
-wedding bells? 

Peggy. All set. 

Harry. What gives, Tony? What are you doing around here now? Sit down. 
iSit down. 

Tony. Just came in to see if you could answer some questions. 

Harry. Shoot. 

Tony. How good is rent control under the OPA? 

Harry. I'd say very good, Tony. 

Tony. I see. . Here's the picture, the landlord asked for an increase of $5 and 
threatens to put them out if . . . 

Harry. (Laughs.) Is he kidding. Listen, Tony, number 1 — he can't increase 
the rent. There's been a rent freeze. Number 2 — No one can be put out if he 
pays his rent. That's OPA law. 

Tony. I see. Then how does the landlord get his nerve to pull a thing like that? 

Mama. Huh, More, Right now I'm paying $47.50 a month. 

Irving. That's $5.50 more a month than your Mr. Bolton is legally entitled to. 

Tony. And he wanted a $5 increase. What can we do about it? 

I Irving. The OPA will see to it that your rent is reduced at once. You'll 
receive a refund or — if you wish — you can sue Bolton for treble damages. 
Mama. Treble damages. 
Irving. Yes, three times the amount of the overcharge. Which in this case is 
considerable. And I might add, if you don't sue, the OPA will. 
Tony. We'll sue — don't worry about that. 
(Music: Up and out.) 
: (Ad libs — laughter.) 
' "Tony. And you should have seen Bolton's face as he handed Mom the money. 
: Mama. $140. 
' Peggy. And the lecture Tony gave him. 



84 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

WooLLEY. Well, the Genaro family, with the aid of Tony, got their $140 
back and they now pay the legal rent. The Genaro's were able to solve their 
problem by going to their OPA area rent office and an unscrupulous landlord 
was dealt with by the OPA. 

OPA has adopted a strong policy of instituting treble damage actions in rent 
overcharges as a means of preventing the slow and systematic draining of small 
amounts from the pockets of tenants. The reason for this is . . . rent is the 
second largest item on every family's budget. The OPA recognized this . . . 
and it became necessary to stabilize rents to prevent living costs from rising 
higher and higher in wartime. 

Today, many of you are confronted with similar problems and many more 
that haven't been mentioned on this broadcast. You have a remedy . . . 
write or go to your area rent office. 

The overwhelming majority of landlords are patriotically cooperating with 
the OPA and the few that try to evade the law make it harder for the landlords 
who play square with their tenants. 

To date, only a small fraction of the registered dwelling units have had com- 
plaints filed against them. 

Mr. McDavitt. On page 8 of the same script we have the character 
Sam and the quotation on "How'd-ya like that?" He is referring to 
the landlord. 

You won't paint. You won't fix nothing. You chisel on the heat, and now 
you want to raise the rent. 

This was objected to, due to the fact that many landlords today 
are not in a position to get the fuel necessary, due to the shortages 
which everybody is aware of; and secondly, in respect, to paint, it is 
very difficult to get a man to do painting today. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, he had scripts on various subjects. That 
was on rents. He had many scripts on clothing, food, and various 
items? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes. 

Mr. Adamson. And in your analysis of them do you find that each 
and every one contained material which was objectionable upon the 
same general grounds you have outlined? 

Mr. Robinson. I object again. May we have the script? 

Mr. Adamson. We can go through all of them if you want to, Mr, 
Chairman, but we will be here for 2 or 3 days if we do. 

Mr. Robinson. There is no use just giving me your conclusions and 
this man's conclusions. 

Mr. McDavitt. These are photostat copies attached to the script. 
They are not my conclusions. 

Mr. Robinson. But I looked over that other script and I can't see 
anything wrong with it. What is there wrong with this? 

Mr. Adamson. What is this photostat here, Mr. McDavitt? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is a photostat sent to the script clearance 
office, signed by Mr. McCloskey, who is in the department of program 
planning and liaison department between the clothing department and 
the publicity department, in respect to a program put on May 22, 
1945. 

Mr. Adamson. Will you read it? 

Mr. McDavitt (reading): 

This is one of the best ways to build up for a damn big run I've yet seen. It 
does not make the point that there are reasons for the shortage. It does not make 
the point that there is enough to go around if we restrain buying. It does not 
make any plea for restraint or conservation. It does intimate that OPA has let 
prices go clear up to heaven. I'd vote to tell them nuts on the whole thing. 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 85 

Mr. Robinson. That is the criticism that they make on his script? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is the criticism of the executive or haison 
officers on the script appUed to the national office for clearance. 

Mr. Robinson. Apparently he didn't think much of the script, but 
where is the subvei-sive part of the script? 

Mr. McDavitt. You want an answer to that, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Rankin. Yes. "What we are trying to find out is whether or 
not this man has done anj^thing that is subversive. 

Mr. Adamson. I have cautioned the witness not to express opinions, 
and if he wants his opinion, though, I liave no objection. 

Mr. Rankin. He can answer the question of the gentleman from 
Utah. 

Mr. McDavitt. An investigation of communistic propaganda at 
tlie present time necessitates going back to the history of NKVD. 

Mr. Robinson. What I want to know is just what that script says 
that is subversive. You say he said things tlieie that are subversive. 

Mr. McDavitt. I will show you the objective of the communistic 
propaganda and how it fits into such broadcasts as this. 

Mr. Robinson. I am not interested in that. I am interested in 
these scripts, so far as I am concerned. That was my question. Of 
course, I am only one member of the committee. 

Mr. Rankin. I am interested in whether or not this w^hole testi- 
mony leads to anything that is subversive or un-American, or designed 
to overthrow this Government or change its form in violation of law 
and now if this is leading up to that, that is what w^e uant to get, and 
we would like to get it too, as quickly as possible. If this material 
that you are furnishing, Mr. Mc]I)avitt, lea els up to that, of course the 
Chair will bear with you, and I am sure the rest of the comxinittee will. 

Mr. McDavitt. I might say this, that the people who today are 
disseminating the propaganda of a Communistic nature no longer 
can be identified as the propagandists of 10 or 15 years ago. They are 
approaching the subject today on a highly cultural basis. The reason 
they are doing this is because they found it has been more profitable 
to do it this way than to be the obtuse person who is going to jail and 
causing a great deal of difficulty. I have informants who have been 
employed and are employed by the NKVD, which is the educational 
school established in AIoscow, to instruct people to go about in the 
world and bring about dissension and ridicule upon general industry or 
general types of people, general classes of people. 

The subversive activities of this particular script lie in the fact that 
it tends to generally indict the landlord, generally indict industry, as 
a violator of law, and in that way it makes the person on the street 
antagonistic towards these various individuals, such as capitalists, 
industry, and such as a man who owns a piece of property. There has 
never been one of the scripts that has come to the defense of the citizens 
of the United States, of the landlords, of the industrialists, of the 
capitalists, who have abided by the law or who have tried to live 
within the regulations, despite how harmful it might be to liim as an 
individual, or how much it might have cost him, so we cannot expect 
to find here that the man is going to come in and say "I am employed 
by the Communist Government and I am disseminating Communist 
propaganda.'' It is only the line that he is using and his instructions 
from NKVD, and the Moscow source of eduction, of which I have been 
well informed. 



86 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Rankin. This is part of the technique of spreading propaganda. 
Is that your position? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. McDavitt, let us look at one of the comments 
of the OPA office here. Look on page 2 of your memorandum and 
tell me if it is not true that they made the comment that you have 
just expressed here, "Aren't there any honest dealers?" 

Mr. McDavitt. That refers to the script on Monday, April 9, 
1945, which was broadcast between 10 and 10:15 p. m., record No. 32. 
Subject: Prior Rationing. 

Paragraph 5 of this script is as follows: 

Tony. I go in Allen's gas station. Sure, he will sell me a tire, 10 bucks more 
than the ceiling price. The White garage same thing, too. And then Benton's. 
He'll sell me tires without OPA certificates, but at a price, I ask you. 

Miss Elizabeth Barker, censor for the legal department, stated this 
should be struck out, and attached this note: "Aren't there any honest 
dealers? How about just letting them be out of tires, instead of 
violating the law?" 

Mr. Adamson. In other words, the office here, Mr. Chairman, has 
seen this point all along and has protested against it. We are not 
condemning the OPA headquarters here. They have been trying to 
struggle against it. 

Mr. Robinson. In other words, these people have been doing a 
good job? 

Mr. Adamson. Mr. Woolley said he couldn't fire them. 

Mr. Robinson. Because Washington objects? 

Mr. Adamson. They said they couldn't fire them. You remember 
Mr. Bowles' testimony. In fact, it seems nobody can fire them. 

The Chairman. You think it would take an act of Congress to 
remove them. 

Mr. Adamson. Apparently so. 

Mr. Thomas. And that would be appealed to the Supreme Court. 

Mr. Mundt. If you tried to fire them. 

Mr. McDavitt. Do vou want the War Production Board criti- 
cism? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, tell us what that memorandum states. 

Mr. McDavitt. This is attaclied to the clothing script and is a 
memorandum for the War Production Board: 

WPB doesn't think script does just job of explaining clothing program. Doesn't 
think it serves very good purpose. 

This particular script, with minor changes, was broadcast February 12. It is 
essentially a repeat. 

Then there are specific WPB comments noted on pages 6, 7, and 13. 

Mr. Adamson. That is the program that Mr. Woolley referred to 
when he said that while the program was first a little late for broad- 
cast, it was repeated subsequently? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. And this memoranda refers to the second broadcast? 

Mr. McDavitt. The second repeat script. 

Mr. Adamson. And it still condemns the script? 

Mr. McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, Mr. Chairman, we can go through these 
things for hours here and they will all be about the same level. If you 



INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 87 

wish US to go ahead, we can. We can also obtain the mechanical 
equipment and play the script for you. 

Mr. Thomas. Have you got the records of those broadcasts? 

Mr. Adamson. The OPA office has them all, and has offered them 
to us. We intended to play them several days ago, but due to 
mechanical difficulties, OPA could not play them. 

Mr. Rankin. As one member of the committee I should like to hear 
them. I understand that the Communist Party, which broke up last 
summer like a joint snake, has now gone back together. There prob- 
ably will be a realinement, and I am wondering if it is your contention 
that this is a propaganda line of the old Communist Party. 

Mr. Adamson. Absolutely. 

Mr. Rankin. And it was the Communist Party that was originally 
dedicated to overthrow this Government. 

Mr. Adamson. There is no mistake about that. 

Mr. Rankin. The overthrow of what they call the capitalistic 
economic system. That is the system of the ownership of private 
property. Is that what you contend that this all is? 

\h\ McDavitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rankin. This is all driving to that end? 

Mr. McDavitt. That is right. 

Mr. Adamson. Now, if we could agree on a day when several 
members of the committee could attend, we can arrange to have 
some of these records, or all of them, played for you. Wliat day 
would you suggest, Mr. Chairman? I will make all the arrange- 
ments. We got all ready once and then the machinery failed. 

The Chairman. Any time will be convenient to me, but I am 
chairman of a very important committee that is going to meet in 
executive session tomorrow on a very important bill. 

Mr. Adamson. How would Saturday do? 

Mr. Rankin. Saturday morning would suit me all right. If that 
is all right with you gentlemen, we will meet at 10 o'clock Saturday 
morning. We will make arrangements for a committee meeting 
room. 

Mr. Adamson. I think we can play them right up in our own 
committee room. They have a portable machine, if it works; if it 
doesn't work, we can go up to the radio room here. I will notify each 
member of the committee where you want to convene on Saturday 
morning at 10 o'clock. 

Mr. Rankin. Are you through for this morning? 

Mr. Adamson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Thomas. We want the records that refer to communism. 
There was a record broadcast about 3 months ago. Be sure you 
bring that up. 

Mr. Adamson. We will bring that one. I think it will be better 
for you to listen to them and compare some of the scripts yourselves 
to see just what they are. 

Mr. Rankin. I want you to be able to identify them. 

Mr. Adamson. We have them all. 

Mr. McDavitt. There may be some difficulty in identification, 
because some of the records that were sent in here are not necessarily 
identified. We may have to play them to find out which one tliey 
refer to. 



88 INVESTIGATION OF UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES AND PROPAGANDA 

Mr. Adamson. Maybe you had better go down and see Mr. Potter's 
office and mark some of them so we will have no trouble about 
identifying them. 

Mr. Robinson. We don't want to be all the week with these 
records. Pick out the ones that you think are the worst. 

Mr. Adamson. There are about half a dozen of them. 

Mr. Robinson. Let us have the ones that in your opinion are 
communistic and subversive and un-American — especially the ones 
about Congress. 

Mr. Rankin. If there is no further testimony, the committee will 
stand adjourned until Saturday morning at 10 o'clock a. m. 

Mr. Adamson. And the place will be selected as soon as I can 
arrange it. 

Mr. Rankin. Very well. 

(Whereupon, at 11:20 a. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m., 
Saturday, June 30, 1945.) 

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