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-6 <rt <j\f CS& , Kc C($(0 . BEFORE THE 




H. R. 1884 and H. R. 2122 




MARCH 24, 1947 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 

M661 WASHINGTON : 1947 




J. PARNBLL THOMAS, New Jersey, Chairman 

KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia 

JOHN MCDOWELL, Pennsylvania JOHN E. RANKIN, Mississippi 


RICHARD B. VAIL, Illinois HERBERT C. BONNER, North Carolina 

Robert E. Stripling, Vhiif Investigator 


MONDAY, MARCH 24, 1947 

House of Representatives, 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. O. 

The committee met at 3: 30 p. m., Hon. J. Parnell Thomas (chair- 
man) presiding. 

The following members were present : Hon. Karl E. Mundt, Hon. 
John McDowell, Hon. Richard M. Nixon, Hon. Richard B. Vail, Hon. 
John E. Rankin, and Hon. Herbert C. Bonner. 

Staff members present: Robert E. Stripling, chief investigator; 
Louis J. Russell and Donald T. Appell, investigators. 

The Chairman. The meeting will come to order. This afternoon 
the committee will hear the testimony of the Honorable William C. 
Bullitt on the bills H. R. 1884 and H. R. 2122, which seek to curb or 
outlaw the Communist Party of the United States. 

Mr. Bullitt, if you will please stand and be sworn. 

(The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) 

The Chairman. Mr. Bullitt, we have certain bills before us, H. R. 
1884, introduced by Mr. Rankin, and H. R. 2122, introduced by Mr. 
Sheppard, both aimed to outlaw the Communist Party in the United 
States. We have invited you and some other prominent people in 
this country to come here and express your views in relation to this 
legislation. We appreciate very much your acceptance. 

For the record, I would like for you to give your full name and 
your address and then a statement of some of the very important 
posts that you have held, and then, if you will, just continue with 
any statement that you would like to make showing the connection 
between the Communist Party here in the United States and a foreign 
power, and make any other observations as you think would help 
us in the consideration of this legislation and in the consideration of 
this very important subject. 

Mr. Bullitt. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Will you please give your full name and your ad- 

Mr. Bullitt. William Christian Bullitt, 1811 Walnut Street, Phila- 

You would like me to name some of the posts I have held under the 
American Government ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Bullitt. Well, in recent years: I was special assistant to the 
Secretary of State in 1933 ; I was a member of the American delega- 
tion to the International Economic and Monetary Conference in Lon- 


doD in 1933; I was Ambassador to the Soviet Union from L933 to 1936; 
1 was Ambassador to France from L936 to L940; I was personal repre- 
sentative of the President with the rank of Ambassador for all coun- 
tries in 1941 and 1942; I was special assistant to the Secretary of 
the Navy thereafter for approximately a year and a half. 

Is that sufficient? 

The Chairman. Well, anything else thai you think of at the mo- 

Mr. BULLITT. Well, 1 think that covers it. I could go into a lot 
of other things. 

Mr. Mundt. Mr. Chairman, if I may interpolate, he is also the 
author of a very important and factual hook on modern Russia ent it led 
"The Great Globe Itself", published by Harper's, I believe ■ 

Mr. Bullitt. Scribners. 

Mr. Mundt. Published by Scribner's, and which I think ranks right 
along with U I Chose Freedom,'' by Victor Krishenko, as t be most read- 
able and understandable and factual hooks from the American pr< 
today on modern Russia. "I Chose Freedom" was also published by 

The Chairman. Mr. Bullitt, if you will just make whatever obser- 
vations you care to make, keeping in mind that we are particularly 
interested in communism in the world as you have seen it. And I 
would like to suggest this to the members of the committee : That we 
permit Mr. Bullitt to go ahead and make his statement and afterward 
we will ask him questions, so that we will not interfere with his 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Chairman, I have no prepared statement, but I 
shall try to follow the line that you have indicated. 

The basis of Communist action in the world, whether in the United 
States or any other country, is the Communist creed, which is a belief 
that there will be no peace on earth until all the nations of the world 
are Communist. This is a very genuine belief which is held by a 
large number of people, and in the furtherance of that belief they 
have developed a doctrine that the end justifies the mean-, and that 
any means, even the most foul, are justifiable in order to achieve this 
domination of the world by communism. 

I don't know whether you would care to have some citations on that, 
but I can find you some which perhaps might be of some interest. 1 [ere 
are four short statements by Lenin and Stalin which cover the funda- 
mental thesis on which Soviet policy is based. 

First, a statement from Lenin, from his collected works, volume 24, 
page 122, Russian edit ion. The statement of Lenin : 

We are living not merely in a state, but in a system of states; and it is incon- 
ceivable that the Soviet Republic should continue for a long period side by side 

with imperialist states. Ultimately one or the other must conquer. Meanwhile, 

a number of terrible clashes between the Soviet Republic and the bourgeois 

states is inevitable. 

The second is from Lenin's Twenty-one Theses of January 20, 11)18: 

From the time a Socialist government is established iii any one country ques- 
tions must be determined * * * solely from the point of view of what is 
best for the development and the consolidation of the Socialist revolution which 

has already begun. The question Whether it is possible to undertake at <>i a 

revolutionary war must be answered solely from the point of view <>t" actual con- 
ditions and the interest of the Socialist revolution which has already begun. 


The third is from Lenin's book, The Infantile Sickness of Leftism 
in Communism: 

It is necessary to use any ruse, cunning, unlawful method, evasion, concealment 
of truth. 

And the fourth is from Stalin's speech on the American Communist 
Party on May 6, 1929 : 

The Comintern is the holy of holies of the working class. 

The Comintern, as you know, is the international organization of 
the different national Communist parties. 

The doctrine that war is inevitable between the Soviet Union and 
the states which the Communists call bourgeois or imperialist, which 
includes the United States of America — indeed, all states which are 
not Communist — grows from the fact that what the Communists in- 
tend is the conquest of the earth for. communism. It is entirely clear 
and one may find it in writing after writing, and there is not much 
point in my quoting further excerpts. 

The present situation in the world is the following: The Soviet 
Government, in the furtherance of its intention to control the earth 
for communism, has annexed Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and a large 
portion of Poland, a portion of Finland, a portion of Rumania, and 
has established absolute control, through puppet governments, over 
the whole of Poland, the whole of Bulgaria, t lie whole of Rumania, 
Yugoslavia, and Albania, and it is closing its iron fist steadily on Fin- 
land, on Hungary, on Czechoslovakia. It also controls fully the Red 
Army zones in Germany and Austria. Thus, the Soviet Government 
has brought under its control more than 100,000,000 persons in eastern 

In addition, through its fifth columns — and its fifth columns are 
like the Nazi fifth columns, since the truth is that communism is Red 
fascism and uses fifth columns just the way Hitler used them, only 
much more effectively. Hitler was never able to build up in the coun- 
tries which he intended to conquer parties or fifth columns having any- 
thing like the strength of the Communist Parties which have been 
built up by the Soviet Union. Using these Communist Parties as fifth 
columns Stalin is threatening the independence of the remainder of 

The Communist Party in France, for example, is extremely im- 
portant. It is, in fact, the largest party today in the French Parlia- 
ment. But there are so many other parties in the French Parlia- 
ment that, although the Communist Party is the largest party, it only 
has 28 percent of the seats in the French Chamber of Deputies. Never- 
theless, it has acquired control of the French CGT, which is the one 
big trade-union of the whole country, and it can pull a general strike 
in France whenever it may choose. Since France has not yet recovered 
from the war and has a very difficult economic situation to deal with, 
the threat of a general strike is an appalling one. 

Moreover, the Communists have infiltrated the air force to such 
an extent that they fully control the ground crews of the air force, 
and there are many officers in the French Air Force who are also Com- 
munists. Furthermore, they have got such a grip on economic life in 
France that today any manufacturer who wants to get raw materials 
for his business is obliged to pay regular monthly sums in blackmail 
to the Communist Party treasury, or he gets no raw materials. 


The result is that in spite <»f the fad thai 72 percent of a democrati- 
cally elected parliament in France is anti-Communist, there is :i very 
fjood chance that the Communists through a general strike and revo- 
utionary activity may be able to take over France. 

What dots that mean for usl If France falls into Communist 
bands it will produce a cataclysm in Europe. Without question Italy. 
where the Communist Party is also very st rong would go Communist. 
Spain and Portugal and all the smaller European countries would 
follow suit. A Communist France would, thereiore, mean not merely 
a Communist Com incut of Europe, but also a Communist Mediter- 
ranean, because France, as you know, has BS colonies MorOCCO and 
Tunisia, and as cue of her Departments, Algeria. The result is, if 
by action of the Freud! Communist Party France begins to take 
Stalin's order-, we shall liave to expect that Casablanca and I> kar, 
which lies in the French colony of Senegal opposite the bulge of Brazil, 
will be in Stalin's bands, and bis plains will be stationed there. 
Furthermore, the French colonies on this side of the Atlantic will 
be open to so-called French planes, which will be Russian planes 
with Ficneb markings, and we shall have them oflE the Panama Canal, 
at Martinique and Guadeloupe, and shall have them at the entrance 
to the St. Lawrence River, at St. Pierre and Miquelon. 

Those are some of tbe consequences to the United States which 
would ensue from a triumph of tbe French Communist Party in 
France. And if it may seem strange that Communist penetration 
of France has gone this far, let me add this fact : Thai the vice presi- 
dent of tbe French Government today. Thorez, ia actually a deserter 
from the French Army in the year L939. He deserted tbe French 
Army in full fight against tbe Germans and lefl for Moscow, but the 
Communists have been able to impose him on the French Government. 

I merely call your attention to this situation. I don't propose to 
try to go into all tbe situations in the world, but the French sit ual ion 
is so extraordinarily serious that I think it is worth while calling it 
to your attention, because if France goes we will be closed out of 
Europe by Stalin's iron curtain. It is as simple as that. 

At the other end of the world, in China, the situation is very much 
worse than it was when General Marshall was sent there to try to 
reconcile tbe Communists and tbe National Government and stop the 
fighting, more than a year ago. It is always, in tbe lonpr nm< im- 
possible to have a national government working with Communists, 
for the simple reason that to take Communists into your government, 
or into dose association with it. is to take an assassin into your bed. 
since tbe objective of tbe Communist is, invariably, to overthrow 
democratic government in the interest of the domination of the demo- 
cratic country by tbe Soviet Inion and tbe world Communist move- 

That may suffice as an example of tbe world situation. Perhaps r 
might go on to tbe domestic problem of tbe American Communist 

Here our Communist Party, like all oilier Communist Parties, is 
subjeel to order- from Moscow. It follows the party line laid down 
in Mo-row with extreme care. We are all familiar with the manner 
in which the American Communist Party has followed faithfully 
the line laid down iu Moscow and has shifted its position in accord- 


ance with every shift of Soviet foreign policy. The party is, in the 
first place, an agency of the Soviet Government for the purpose of 
weakening the United States for the ultimate assault that the Soviet 
Government intends to make on the United States. It is, further- 
more, if you will look to the experience of other countries, a con- 
spiracy to commit murder, since in whatever country the Communists 
dominate they establish a so-called dictatorship of the proletariat, 
which is denned by Stalin in the following words — this .quotation, I 
may say, is from his book Problems of Leninism : 

The dictatorship of the proletariat is the domination of the proletariat over 
the bourgeoisie unobstructed by law and based upon violence, enjoying the 
sympathy and support of the working and exploited masses. 

Now, "unobstructed by law and based upon violence" means that 
what is done is what is called liquidating the opponents of the gov- 
ernment, and "liquidate" is simply a happy euphemism for murder. 
Murder is carried on on the very large scale. Individual assassina- 
tions are not very often used by the Communist Party, but murder 
on an extremely large scale is very frequently used and is a regular 
piece of the mechanism of establishing their authority. 

Therefore. I should consider the Communist Party of the United 
States composed, in the first place, of potential traitors, since certainly 
if the United States were in war with the Soviet Union the members 
of the American Communist Party would do all they could to help 
the Soviet Union and to injure their own country. In the second 
place, I should consider it a conspiracy to commit murder on a mass 

That, I think, confronts us with a very practical question of what 
to do under the present circumstances. The United States, without 
question, today is in danger, as President Truman very clearly 
brought out in his statement asking for support for Greece and 
Turkey. He said that the national security of the United States was 
involved. I believe those were his exact words. Perhaps I have not 
quoted him correctly, but that was the sense of some of his words. 
The safety of the United States is involved because the gradual tak- 
ing over of countries, the gradual taking over of areas, while possible 
future victims are lulled into a false sense of security, is the essence 
of the Soviet tactics, just as it was the essence of Hitler's tactics. 

And I make this observation, realizing that it is one that it will 
be difficult, perhaps, to believe: The situation of the United States 
today very greatly resembles the situation of the French Republic 
in the year 1936. At that time France had the largest air force in the 
world, by far the most powerful army in the world, and a navy which 
was vastly superior to the German Navy. Nevertheless, at that 
moment Hitler dared start on his career of conquest by marching his 
troops into the Rhineland on the 7th day of March 1936. The French 
could have crushed him with extreme ease. They had every right 
to, as it was a flagrant violation of the Treaty of Versailles, and they 
had a right to march to Berlin, if they chose, and take over Germany 
and impose whatever terms they pleased. 

But France wanted to balance its budget. Mobilization of the 
army was extremely unpopular, as it always is, because it tears men 
away from their homes and their affairs, and furthermore Hitler 
constantly was saying that he bore no ill will toward France, and that 


he had no intention of ever attacking Fiance. In consequence, there 
were a lot of perfectly good Frenchmen of good intention and weak 
heads who believed that Hitler would never attack France — like cer- 
tain star-gazers in the United States, who believe that the Soviet 
Union will never attack the United State.-. So what did the French 

do? They did nothing. Hitler consolidated his position in the Rhine- 
land. built the Siegfried Line and by it locked France out of central 
and eastern Europe entirely, successfully seized the countries who 
were France's allies in eastern Europe, made his deal with Stalin, 
divided Poland with Stalin, and finally attacked France. The only 
thing that France had gained by not marching and smashing Hitler, 
as she could have \ny easily in L936 in fact, we even have the docu- 
ment in which Hitler ordered his troops to Leave the Khineland if 
the French should mobilize — the only thing they acquired by their 
quiescence was to he crushed completely I vears later. 
At the present time the United State- is tar stronger than the Soviet 

Union. We are as much stronger than the Soviet Union today as 

France was stronger than Germany in L936 — and Stalin knows it. 

When we took a strong stand on Turkey last year, whin we took 
a strong stand on Iran this year, the Soviet Union did not dare to 
move. But time is running against us, exactly as it ran against France 
after 1936. The Russian Army and Air Force are growing stronger 
every day. They are >till turning their major energies into the pro- 
duction t'«»r war and not into con -inner goods. They art 1 consolidating 
their hold on the hundred million people they have taken over in 
tern Europe and could use them all today, or almost all of them, 
for war purposes. Their aggression in China i> progressing, although 
at the moment Chiang Kai-shek's armies are advancing, for behind 
his lines there is such economic difficulty that the whole Chinese Gov- 
ernment position is threatened. Communists trained in Moscow have 
achieved Leadership of the Indochinese independence movement, an 
entirely genuine movement at bottom, but now in the hands of the 

In South America the Communists are increasingly infiltrating the 
trade-unions and have control of the trade-unions in many countries. 
There are three Communist members today of the Government of 
Chile. The Communists have grown so strong in both Cuba and 
Venezuela that democratic government is threatened in both countries, 
and in Brazil recently, after an election, the country woke up to dis- 
cover that the Communists had become the Largest party in the city 
council of its capital, Rio de Janeiro. 

Now, under these circumstances the existence in the United States of 
an enormous fifth column of the national Communist dictator is an 
even greater threat to the United States than was ever the fifth col- 
umn of the National Socialist dictatorship of Hitler, and. therefore, 
I think that you have brought up this question at an extremely appro- 
priate moment. 

Nevertheless, T should Like to Bay that I am not at all sure that it is 
wise, in the public interest of the people of the United Slate-, to 
declare it a crime, at the present time, to belong to the American 
Communist Party, for the following reasons: 

We know that the Communist Party in this country is organized 
as follows: There are the dues-paying members, who have party books, 


and so on. Those are the more or less public members of the party. 
There is then the underground organization of the party. That is 
a series of small groups, of three or five persons, organized secretly 
in a secret organization, which even if the party should be suppressed 
by law, could continue to function. In the third place, there is that 
extraordinary group, usually very able men, men who are so important 
to the Soviet Union and to the Communist Party that they are not 
allowed to admit that they are members, because it may get them into 
trouble. That is a very important group, although not large. 

If we should make it a crime to belong to the Communist Party, I 
do not believe that today we have sufficient information with regard 
to all these groups to put our hands on them effectively, nor do I believe 
that if we did put our hands on them effectively we would actually go 
through with any punishment of them. 

For example, when I was Ambassador to Moscow, one of the minor 
tasks I had was to ask the Soviet Government to accept again into 
the Soviet Union a number of its subjects who were illegally in the 
United States. We tried to deport these persons to their country of 
origin and the Soviet Government refused to receive them, just 
wouldn't take them back. AVell, what are you going to do with them? 
You get out a deportation order against a man who is obviously an 
undesirable citizen of any country, and his country of origin refuses 
to receive him ? Well, you may keep him under arrest pending depor- 
tation for a given period, but you can't keep him very long, and you 
just have to turn him loose again. We do not shoot people whom we 
dislike, as they do in the Soviet Union. 

Now, in the Communist Party in the United States, according to 
such information as I have, approximately 60 percent of the members 
are of alien origin. Sixty percent of the members, I believe, are men 
and women who have come to the United States, and after being here 
a given length of time have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the 
United States. It seems to me that one of the things that we should 
look into is perhaps this : That we should make, perhaps, membership 
in the Communist Party on the part of a naturalized citizen prima 
facie evidence that his citizenship was fraudulently acquired and that 
the immigrant in taking the oath of allegiance to support the Consti- 
tution of the United States committed perjury. That, I think, might 
hit 60 percent of the party. 

There is a good precedent for that. We did exactly that with the 
German Bund, as you know, and deported from the United States — 
I have forgotten how many thousands of German Bundists — and I 
fail to see why we might not try^to do that with Communists of alien 
origin. But when we consider doing that, let's also consider the fact 
that the Soviet Government will refuse to have these people sent back, 
and let us then try. to think, before we pass any such law, what we are 
going to do with them. 

These are some practical considerations that I am just bringing up 
as suggestions. 

Another point which I should like to suggest to you is this: We 
have a requirement of the election laws that all campaign contribu- 
tions made to the Democratic and Republican Parties — to all political 
parties — should be reported. The major parties all make returns of 
the names of their contributors. The Communist Party, I believe, 

99651 — 47— pt. 1 2 


under thai law should be required to list all its contributors and dues- 
paying members — because the payment of dues is just as much a con- 
tribution to a political party as the making of a campaign contribu- 
tion once every 1 years, or Whatever the period may be 

That is another suggestion which I should like to make, which 
probably will be in< ffectual, but nevertheless it seems to me t<> point 
in a direction thai might be useful. 

And third, I should lik<' to say this. I am perfectly certain thai a 
time will come, and it may be close at hand, when it will be essential 
to our national safety to Break up this criminal conspiracy, which is 
world-wide, break it up as far as we can in the United States. 

In other words, thai we shall have to take extremely severe action 
againsl the Communists, both those who are openly members of the 
party and those who are secretly organized in the underground, and 
those who are the, so to speak, unparty members, because they are 
boo important to be jeopardized. 

We will have to take action againsl them. 'The only basis upon 
which we can take action is the basis of knowledge, and 1 believe that 
at this moment the first thing we ought to do toward insuring the 
safety of the United States at a moment which may not be very far 
off, is greatly to increase the appropriation of the FBI for handling 
precisely this problem of the Communists in the United Slate-. 

I know that the FBI has done excellent work on this line. They 

have proved what they could do in the case of the German Bund, but 
in the case of the Communist Party you have many, many more, 
thousands and thousands more dangerous persons than you had in the 
German Bund; and I believe that the FBI should be given sufficient 

funds SO that when the crisis come- it can seize all the members of the 
Communist Party who have any importance, just as effectively as it 

seized the members of the I'miid. 

I do think, therefore, that at the present time we are not equipped 
to face this issue by passing Legislation making it a crime to be a 
member of the Communist Party. I do not believe thai the people 

of this country are quite sufficiently aware of the danger to them in- 
volved in the existence of the party and t he determination of the Soviet 

Union to conquer the United States, to face up to the penalties in- 
volved. The last thing we want to do is to make martyrs of anybody. 
The last tiling we want to do is to throw away one iota of our Bill of 
Rights contained in the first 1<> amendments to the Constitution. Our 
-lory in the world and. indeed, our greal strength, is in the fact that 
we -tand for freedom. The Soviet Government today, in the world 

where it is really known, Stands for just one thing, which is slavery. 

It i- a very old fight, an extremely old fight, which has gone on for 
2.. ')00 year- at least, between the idea of freedom, exemplified at that 
time by the Athenian democracy, and the idea of tyranny, exempli- 
fied ;it that time by the great kings of Persia. Tin- fight is on today, 
ami the great explosive idea which we have to oiler to the people of 
eastern Europe who are under the heel of the Soviet Government, to 
all the peoples in the world, even the peoples of the Soviet Union who 
are under the heel of the Soviet Government, is the idea of freedom; 
and in my belief while we have to devise with the utmost care a 
method of handling this criminal conspiracy, I think it has to be done 
to avoid, meticulously, touching one iota of our Bill of Rights 
and on. personal f et doms. 


That is all. 

The Chaieman. Mr. Bullitt, the committee certainly appreciates 
* he very fine statement that you have made to us. 

The committee now has some questions to ask, if you don't mind. 

One thing that I would like to know from you is this : Do you con- 
sider that communism is the greatest threat to the world today? 

Mr. Bullitt. Well, there is very little left of fascism, and there- 
fore the brown fascism is out of the world, and you have left the 
Red fascism, which is communism; and in my- opinion it is the great- 
est threat there is to any form of decent life on this globe. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bullitt, I have been serving on this committee 
now for 8 years. I was with the Dies committee when it was originally 
established. That committee, and later committees, built up a tre- 
mendous record against the Communist Party, but many times we 
wondered if our efforts weren't futile. It is all right to talk about 
appropriating $25,000,000 now to investigate un-American indivi- 
duals in the Government, but we can look back and see that for just 
a few hundred thousand dollars a committee of Congress did exactly 
the same thing, and yet how futile it was at times because of the lack 
of cooperation that we got. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

The Chairman. Now, I would like to ask you this question in 
regard to that: Do you think now, and in the future, we are going 
to get real cooperation, or do you think it will be as it was over the 
past 8 years — the kind of thing that weakened this country just as 
France was weakened back in 1936? 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Chairman, I think that at the present time we 
are beginning to have a realization in this country of the facts with 
regard to the threat of the Soviet Union to the United States. It is 
perfectly true that from the autumn of 1941 until, certainly, the spring 
of 1915, all the agencies of the American Government which had any- 
thing to do with the problem were employed in trying to make the 
Soviet Government popular in the United States. That we have 
to recognize — from what came out over the radio, what was gotten 
out by the OWI, the statements made at the State Department — in 
which the Soviet Government was constantly referred to as a peace- 
loving democracy. 

The Chairman. Did we know, though, that that was absolutely 
wrong, that it was just as much of a falsehood as anything that we 
might say ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Chairman, that is a very difficult question to 
answer unless I were to talk for 15 minutes on it. I will say this, 
briefly : Mr. Roosevelt was perfectly aware in 1940 of what the Soviet 
Union was. In his speech of February 10, 1940, to the American 
Youth Congress, he said : 

The Soviet Union, as everybody who has the courage to face the facts knows, 
is run by a dictatorship as absolute as any other dictatorship in the world. 

On November 7, 1941, in decreeing the extension of the Lend-Lease 
Act to the Soviet Union, the President declared : 

I have found that the defense of the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics 
is vital to the defense of the United States. 

Now, in my opinion, both of those statements were true. The fact 
is that in the last war we associated ourselves with one totalitarian 


imperialism, the Soviet Union, and two or three democracies in order 
to defeat another totalitarian imperialism Germany, which was asso- 
ciated with another totalitarian imperialism — Japan, in the Pacific — 
and in order to mala' the Soviet Union more popular in this country 
the Government deliberately engaged in propaganda <>n its behalf. 
Of that there is no quest ion. 

The hope of President Roosevelt was that in the end, it' we gave 
Stalin everything he asked for, if we treated him with the greatest 

possible o-fiierosity, if we treated him as if he were a great gentleman, 
that in the end Stalin would turn out to he a peace-loving democrat 
and all the problems of the world would be solved. In that he was 

The Chairman. I have just one more question. You mentioned 

Mr. Bulijtt. Yes. 

The Chairman. Is it your opinion that France will be able to >t and 
up against the Communist influence, or that l\rance will fall and 
become a Communist state? 

Mr. Bullitt. My opinion is that the ?•_' percenl of the French 
Parliament which is anti-Communist can form a government of na- 
tional unions, leaving the 28 percent of Communists in a minority 
and maintain legal democratic government in France — and I trust 
that they will do so, and 1 think that we should give them every 

encouragement to do so. 
The Chairman. Mr. Mundt. 
Mr. Mundt. Mr. Bullitt, I believe that in calling the roll of the 

countries which had fallen under the complete domination of the 
Soviet you omitted mentioning the count ry of Albania. 

Mr. Bullitt. Albania and Yugoslavia I perhaps didn't mention. 
When you are mentioning a list, when you are just speaking, it is 
difficult to remember them all — because there are a very large number. 

Mr. Mundt. That is right. I wish you would tell the committee 
for the record your interpretation, from your vast knowledge of the 
international machinations of communism, what i< entailed in this 
phrase which is so glibly referred to frequently by ill-advised college 
professors, political preachers, and other people occasionally who 
apologize tor communism, when they say. "There is nothing to worry 
about any more, the Comintern has been dissolved." 

Mi 1 . Bullitt. That is pure nonsense. The Comintern is — you may 
recall the American Communist Party was also dissolved and it be- 
came the Communist Political Association — I believe that i- what it 
was called — because it suited the political book of the Soviet Govern- 
ment at that time i<> try to make it appear that the Soviet Govern- 

nien was no Ionizer directing the Communist Party in the United 
Sate-: but just a- 30on as it was no longer politically useful the Com- 
munist Party was revived in full form. 

The Comintern being officially abolished means almost nothing. 
The Soviet Government now has such mechanisms throughout the 
world that it doesn't need the old inechani-iii of the Comintern. It 
has the Prof intern : it has it- own diplomatic service; and it has also 
the diplomatic services of all of its satellite states. There is a Polish 

Embassy today in Washington. I have no hesitation in saying thai 
the Polish Embassy in Washington is certainly directed by the puppet 


government of Poland which in turn is directed by Moscow and 
therefore the Polish Embassy in Washington is merely another ad- 
junct of the Soviet Government. 

Now that they have so many mechanisms, now that they have spread 
so widely, they no longer need the Comintern as a mechanism, but I 
quoted you before Stalin's statement that the Comintern was the 
"holy of holies of the working class," and if anyone thinks that in 
reality that holy of holies has been abolished he is very naive. 

Mr. Mundt. As a matter of fact, some of the former members of 
the Comintern, such as Georgi Dimitrov in Bulgaria, have been trans- 
ferred from one "holy of holies'' to an operative post, as a dictator of 
a satellite country ; is that not right ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Mundt. You mentioned the Vice President of France, I believe, 
who was a deserter. Who was that ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Maurice Thorez. He is vice president, not of France, 
but of the French Government. We talk about the French Prime Min- 
ister; they call him President of the Council, and then there is the 
Vice President of the Council, who takes the place of the President 
of the Council if the President of the Council is ill, or away. 

Mr. Mundt. Thank you. 

I am frank to say that I share your concern and skepticism as to 
the efficacy of outlawing the Communist Party, but I am highly de- 
sirous of taking every constitutional step that we can to restrict and 
restrain and repeal their activity in this country; so I was highly 
gratified to have the list of three or four suggestions which you made 
by which we could curtail, to a certain extent, these operations without 
making them actually an outlawed party. On the other hand, I pre- 
sume that we cannot give too much credence to the theory that by 
outlawing them we drive them underground, because, as you have cor- 
rectly pointed out, some of their most important operators are under- 
ground anyhow. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Mundt. Because they do not openly admit membership in the 


Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Mundt. I wonder if you can give the committee any suggestions 
as to what can be done constitutionally, under our American Bill of 
Rights, to curtail the supporters of communism, who have that unfor- 
tunate habit of joining a lot of front organizations, and thus give them 
an atmosphere of respectability, because they are decent Americans, 
but are careless, and carelessly join these organizations and contribute, 
by their prestige and money, to the promotion. 

A definite case came out in the papers this morning. A fellow by 
the name of Dr. Condon, head of the Bureau of Standards, whom 1 
presume is a good American, was lending his name to a Communist 
movement, and then said, "I didn't know it was a Communist organi- 
zation. Somebody called up and said will you join, and I said 
'Yes.'" . . 

Now, something should be done, it seems to me, to alert Americans 
against giving aid and comfort to the enemy, as it were, simply 
through carelessness. Such gullibles as Dr. Condon present a tragic 


Mr. Bullitt. Well, I think that that might be handled very easily 
by, in the first place, an invest igation of such Communist-front organ- 
izations so that we are perfectly certain they are Communist-front 
organizations, and then information being given directly — and I 
should not object to having it given by the American Government — to 

respectable persons who may have been hooked into their lists, that 

they were acting as screens for a Communist-fronl organization. 

I think it mighl hi', perhaps, worth while to go back and ask the 
State Department for the records of the Comintern Congress of 1935, 
which took place in MOSCOW, where American Communists were very 
prominent, despite all the promises made by the Soviet Government 
to the contrary, the promises made by Litvinov, written promises 
that the Comintern would cease to direct the American Communist 

Mr. Mundt. Given as a condition precedent 

Mr. Bullitt. Given as a condition precedent to recognition; yes, 

At that time they developed the entire Trojan-horse policy and the 
statements are really extraordinary, the statements of the leaders of 
the Comintern, saying if any man thinks that it is beneath his honor 
to go into church organizations, into welfare organizations of every 

kind, in order to better undermine them, and the state in which they 
function, then he doesn't know what it is to be a real Communist. 

Now, I think you might, perhaps, get some excerpt- from that 
record and send them to these people who gel drawn into these Com- 
munist-front organizations. That record exists, 1 know, because I 
was the Ambassador in Moscow at the time of the occurrence. 

Mr. Mi'mjt. The record is in the State Department? 

.Mr. Bullitt. Certainly. 

Mr. Mundt. I have no other questions. I -imply want to join with 
the chairman in expressing appreciation to you cor your very helpful 
and informative and thought-provoking statement on a difficult prob- 
lem. Thank you very much, sir. 

Mi-. Bullitt. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Mr. McDowell. 

Mr. McDowell. Mr. Ambassador, for the first time, I think, in the 
Nation's history, America is becoming, rapidly becoming, acutely 

conscious of the Communist situation here and around the world. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. McDowell. I feel that all of the eye- of America are on this 
hearing today. Most certainly those things that you have said today 
aif L r oiiiL r to have a profound effect upon the people of America. J 
have attended many Communist meetings — not as a member. One of 
the frequent occurrences at the meetings was :i comparison between 
living here in America and in Russia. The comparison, of course. 
was bad. SO far a- America was concerned. Would you care to make 
any observations on the things that occur in Russia ? 

Mr. Bullitt. "Well, of course, statements of that kind are bo fan- 
ta-t ically distorted that i- very difficult to answer them. 

In the first place, life in Russia is lived under the constant fear of 
tin- knock of the Secrel police on the door in the middle of the night. 
V> man when he goes to bed, and no woman, knows that in the middle 
of the night the secret police aren't i_ r <>ing to arrivt — and then comes 
disappearance. Then comes either death in a cellar with a shot 


in the neck or deportation to one of the forced labor camps. We do 
not know exactly how many men and women are in those forced labor 
camps today, but there is extremely reliable testimony that there are 
more than 10,000,000 human slaves today in those forced labor camps 
working under the NKVD in the Soviet Union at this time. 

It is worse than at the worst moment of Negro slavery. There 
were never so many slaves as there are today in the Soviet Union 
actually working in slavery. 

That being the basis for life, whether you have more or less makes 
very little difference, because you can't call your soul your own; you 
are scared every minute. The actual scale of living of the ordinary 
people of the Soviet Union is fantastically low. It was certainly at 
the beginning of the war, in 1939, lower than that of any country in 
Europe, and, of course, infinitely lower than that of the United States. 
That is not to say that the commissars and the big leaders of one kind 
and another do not have everything. They do. They have their 
town houses, they have their country, places, their automobiles, they 
have special shops where they get clothing, and their wives and chil- 
dren are clothed. They have enormous privileges. But when you 
get down to the great mass of the Russian people and the great mass 
of the other peoples in the Soviet Union — because the Soviet Union is, 
as you know, not populated exclusively by Russians; it contains 167 
different peoples and tribes; they issue their primary schoolbooks, or 
did in the year 1936. if my memory is correct, in 165 different lan- 
guages and dialects — the standard of life of these peoples for the most 
part is unbelievably low. 

You can't describe it to an American because he has never seen any- 
thing like it and cannot imagine what it is. 

The statement that the standard of living is higher in the Soviet 
Union than in the United States is, of course, the most outrageous lie 
possible. I don't know that it is worth while going on talking 
about it. 

Mr. McDowell. I have no other questions, Mr. Chairman. I 
would like to join with the rest of the committee in extending the 
thanks of the United States Congress to this great patriotic American 
for coming here. 

Mr. Bullitt. Thank you. 
Mr. Chairman. Mr. Nixon. 

Mr. Nixon. Mr. Bullitt, I particularly noticed in your comment that 
this Congress must be careful not to place the Communists in the 
United States in a position of martyrs. 
Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Nixon. Would you even go so far as to say that although 
Communists will appear before this committee in opposition to this 
proposed legislation, that it might well be part of their program to 
welcome the passage of such legislation so that they could be placed 
in a position of martyrs? 

Mr. Bullitt. No; I don't think so. I think they are very well 
satisfied with their present set-up and don't want it disturbed. I 
think that they will oppose it and they will oppose it on different 
grounds — but that seems to me one step too subtle. I don't believe they 
will go that far. 

Mr. Nixon. You mean, then, that you think their opposition to this 
type of legislation is honest in this case? 


Mr. Bullitt. I think that if they could gel an outrageous bill 
passed, which the Supreme Courl would unanimously throw out, they 
would be perfectly aelighted, obviously, bul 1 don't think thai they 


Mr. Nixon. They wouldn't oppose a reasonable bill which was hold 
constitul ional 1 

Mr. Bullitt. I don't think they would like that. 

Mr. Nimin. That is all. 

Tin' Chairman. Mr. Vail. 

Mr. Vail. Mr. Bullitt, you have indicated that communism was a 
very definite threat to America today. 1 wonder whether, based on 
your experience, you could indicate to us the period in which that 
movement has gained the greatest impetus. 

Mr. lii i i l it. In the United State- i 

Mr. Vail. In the United States. 

Mr. Bullitt. Withoul question during the war. During the war. 
Mr. V mi • You don't think tluu that movement has been progressive 
since the war \ 
Mi-. Bi i.i.rrr. I should doubt it very much. It may have been — 

and I don't pretend to he a specialist on the activities of the (,'oin- 
munist Party in the United State- in the differenl trade-unions and 
in the different fields of lift — hut 1 think that there has been a very 
general awakening to the fart that the Soviet Union is not a peace- 
loving democracy and that the Communists representing it are not 
good American citizens, that they are • n ing a foreign power, and not 
the United States of America, i think that the Communist Party has 
less influence than it had during the period when it changed its name 
to "Communist Political Association" and was garnering a greal many 
people of decency and good will, who were unaware of the Facts. 

So thai 1 don't think it is so powerful. Nevertheless, that is not 
really the question. The question is. Doe- it occupy sufficient strategic 
points of importance so that it can, for example, paralyze our elec- 
trical industry by sabotage in case of an attack on the United States 
by the Soviet Union? That is one example. Can it operate in dif- 
ferent fields equally effectively? For example, I understand that a 
very large number of all the radio operators on the merchant marine 
are in Communist unions. What would be the consequences of that ! 
The question is extremely specific. Where they are; what they are 

Mr. Vail. There isn't any question but what ours is a tolerant 
Nation. 1 am wondering w hel lier you beliei i ramers of our Con- 

stitution and Bill of Rights had in mind the situation thai has arisen 
today, a definite threat, an intent on the part of certain people living 
in our country to dest roy our Government. 

Mr. Bullitt. No; I centainly think they had no such thing in mind; 
and furthermore, when a Communist talks about free speech it is 
almost comic, for i his reason : he has no speech that come- out of his 

mouth that isn't dictated to him by hi- ruler- in Moscow. Now. the 

essence of Uv<- speech is that you honestly consider a subjecl and you 
develop your own opinion. You then have a right to express it. But 
i ommunist simply follow- the party line, which is laid down for 
him ii Moscow. There is an interesting distinction there, which per- 
haps is not worth anything from a practical point of view, but never- 


theless is a fact — that they don't think for themselves; they change 
their opinions en masse whenever they get an order to change them 
from the Soviet Union. In a book which I published last year there 
is an appendix in which I have recorded the different changes of line 
expressed in the Daily Worker in exact accordance with the changes 
in Soviet foreign policy. 

Now, I think it is impossible to read that and believe that any 
American Communist thinks for himself. He gets his orders from 
Moscow what to think — which is something, certainly, that was not 
envisaged by the framers of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Vail. That is all. 

The Chairman. Mr. Rankin. 

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Bullitt, the advocates of communism in this 
country keep harping on democracy. Is there any democracy in a 
Communist country? 

Mr. Bullitt. There isn't the slightest trace of democracy. 

Mr. Rankin. A statement was made before this committee that 
there was no more democracy in a Communist country than there 
was in the penitentiary of the State of New Jersey or Mississippi or 
Texas. Is that statement correct? 

Mr. Bullitt. Well, I wouldn't put it in that form. The fact is 
that there is no democracy of any kind without political democracy. 

Mr. Rankin. In other words, the masses are the slaves of the state 
or the commissars ? 

Mr. Bullitt. That is correct. Completely the slaves of the state; 
and furthermore, the doctrine which is taught is the doctrine of the 
omnipotence of the state — that a man is good insofar as he serves 
the state ; a man is bad insofar as he doesn't serve the state. 

Mr. Rankin. Now, were you in Moscow in the late thirties? 

Mr. Bullitt. I was in Moscow, Ambassador in Moscow, from the 
autumn of 1933 until the autumn of 1936. 

Mr. Rankin. Did you see a large streamer across the gates of Mos- 
cow with this inscription on it: "Religion is the Opiate of the 

Mr. Bullitt. That streamer I saw in Moscow in 1919, and in 1932, 
when I was there, but it is my impression that it had been removed 
in 1933. I am not certain of that, but that is my impression. 

Mr. Rankin. I give you my impression. My recollection is that 
former President Hoover went to Moscow in 1936; is that about 

Mr. Bullitt. I don't know. He wasn't there when I was there. 

Mr. Rankin. He made a radio speech when he returned to Amer- 
ica, and told about seeing that streamer. 

Mr. Bullitt. That is a statement which you may find all through 
Moscow and Leningrad, and the country, "Religion is the Opiate 
of the People." 

Mr. Rankin. In other words, communism is atheistic ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Completely. 

Mr. Rankin. Completely? 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rankin. They believe in outlawing all religion? 

Mr. Bullitt. You have to qualify that now to this extent; they 
have an ideal, which is the state. It is a form of state worship. They 

99651—47 — pt. 1 3 


did their utmost to destroy Christianity in Russia; they conducted 
campaign after campaign against Christianity in Russia. When the 
la<t war. the war of 1939, came on. they found that they needed the 
support of a lot of religious people. Therefore, they stopped the 
persecution of the church in violent form; they permitted more 
churches to open, and t hey took the other course, which was of getting 
the Leaders of the Orthodox church under their thumb, so that today 
they control the Orthodox church as one of the apparatuses hy which 
they control the peoples of the Soviet Union. Hut they do permit it 
to function. 

Mr. Rankin. Also they propose to take over all property, all land, 
all factories, all methods of production and distribution; that is 
correct, is it not \ 

Mr. Bullitt. Well, when the revolut ion came there they took every- 
thing over. 

Mr. Rankin. In other words, a man cannot own his home or land 
iii Russia ' 

Mr. Bullitt. That is true, basically; but now they allow, for ex- 
ample, the peasants on the colled ive farm, they allow a peasant to L r et 
the product of an acre or a half acre that he has back of his place 
where he lives. 

Mr. Rankin. In other words, they permit him to have what we call a 
garden in t he South ? 

Mr. l'i uarr. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. But the land that he tills, to make his living, is owned 
by the Russian Government. 

Mr. Bullitt. Owned by the state. 

Mr. Rankin. Audit is dominated by commissars? 

Mr. Bullitt. Completely. 

Mr. Rankin. And instead of imposing the usual amount of rental, 
as we impose, a certain percentage of the crop, they demand that they 
deliver a certain amount of production, do they not ? 

Mr. Bullitt. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. In r.):'>:'.. I think it was, they had a crop failure in the 
Ukraine. Do you remember that? 

Mr. Bullitt. I do ; very well. 

Mr. Rankin. And the people of the Ukraine are among the best 
people in Russia \ 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. R\nkix. And they went down and took everything away from 
them and starved five or six million of the best people in Russia to 
death, in their own homes; that is correct, isn't it '. 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Congressman, it was, in one way. even worse than 
that. They set the grain quotas higher than the tot ;il grain crop. They 
then took the entire grain crop, but because there wasn't more, to 
come np to quota, the 111:111 was a criminal, and. therefore, he was 
treated a- a criminal, in addition to being starved, and his wife 
and children as well. 

Mr. Rankin. Yes. 

Mr. Bullitt. They managed to dispose, by systemically organized 

starvation, they managed to dispose of some three to five million 

Mr. Rankin. Now. the people in the Ukraine are the white people 
of Russia, the Nordics; are they not \ 


Mr. Bullitt. No ; that you can't say. The Ukrainians are an ex- 
tremely fine people. Russians are a very fine people. Both the Rus- 
sians and the Ukrainians are extremely Nordic. 

Mr. Rankin. Well, what I mean by that is that these people were 
Nordic people; they were not orientals? 

Mr. Bullitt. Certainly not. 

Mr. Rankin. The people in the Ukraine are among the best people 
in Europe. 

Mr. Bullitt. That is right. 

Mr. Ranktn. Yet they went in there and took everything they made 
and starved, you say, five or six million of them to death? 

Mr. Bullitt. Three to five million. 

Mr. Rankin. Men. women, and children starved to death, eating, 
in their frantic misery, the bodies of their own children, of their own 
families; that is correct, isn't it? 

Mr. Bullitt. I am extremely sorry to say that I actually have two 
photographs of a father and mother and the skeleton of the child 
they had eaten, which were taken down there in the Ukraine. 

Mr. Rankin. Yes : that is what I am trying to bring out. 

Mr. Bullitt. I still have two photographs of that. There is nothing 
more horrible. 

Mr. Rankin. You spoke awhile ago of there being 10,000,000 people 
in concentration camps. 

Mr. Bullitt. I should say, at least. 

Mr. Rankin. You said that they were infinitely worse off than the 
slaves were in the Southern States. 

Mr. Bullitt. What I said was this, sir, that there were more slaves 
today in the Soviet Union than there ever were at the height of slavery, 
not merely in the Southern States but in the world. 

Mr. Rankin. Yes. Well, in the Southern States I don't think it 
ever got higher than 4,000,000, and never were the slaves in the South- 
ern States treated as brutally as the people are now treated in those 
concentration camps in Russia. 

Mr. Bullitt. I think 

Mr. Rankin. According to the information we get. 

Now you spoke awhile ago about outlawing the Communist Party. 
The bill before us simply proposes to prevent men from being elected 
to office on the Communist ticket, to put a stop to the sending of Com- 
munist literature through the mail, and to put a stop to certain pro- 
fessors teaching communism in the schools and colleges of this country. 
Is there anything wrong in preventing those encroachments? 

Mr. Bullitt. Personally I think the more people in the United 
States know about communism the better. 

Mr. Rankin. Yes; but 

Mr. Bullitt. And I would hate to see any bill passed which forbade 
people to tell the people of this country what communism was, right 
down to the last detail and very accurately. 

Mr. Rankin. You are aware of the fact that communism is much 
better financed than fascism was in this country. I am talking about 
the fifth columnists, as we call them. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Rankin. Through certain foundations, alleged foundations, 
they are financing professors in the various colleges throughout the 


country, who are continuously Lecturing those students and mislead- 
ing them as to what communism means. 

.Now. don't you think that ought to be stopped I 

Mr. Bullitt. Well, 1 think if that is being done — and 1 have no 
persona] knowledge of it — it is an extremely grave thing, which the 
Government ought to look into immediately. 

Mr. Rankin. There have been two professors in the University of 
Chicago — one of them is named A.dler and the other one I believe is 
named Miller — who spouted off recently, making speeches advocating 
the abolition of the United States and saying boldly we must get rid 
of the United States. You know what thai means, don't you? 

Mr. Bullitt. Well 

Mr. Rankin. Would you outlaw that kind of procedure? 

Mr. Bl i.i.n r. 1 think anybody who chooses to advocate the abolition 
of the United States is taking quite a burden on his shoulders. 

1 may say there was a moment when most of the members of my 
family and probably most of the members of yours were engaged in 
trying to abolish the United Stales, by the Civil War. 

Mr. Rankin. 1 am glad you brought that question up, because if 
\ou will get the constitution of the Confederacy and read it 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Rankin. You will find that it was almost a duplicate of the 
Federal Constitution. 

Mr. BULLITT. Yes; it was, surely. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. There was a secession over two questions 

Mr. Bullitt. That is right. 

Mr. Rankin. The spread of slavery and the right of a section of 
the count ry to secede. 

Mr. lh i.niiT. That is right. 

Mr. RANKIN. But we never undertook to undermine and destroy 
all forms of government. 

Air. Bullitt. Oh, no. 

Mr. Rankin. Including the right to own property. 

Mr. Bullitt. No; Congressman. Excuse me, 1 misunderstood your 
(plot ion in that case. 

Mr. Rankin. Now, you spoke about prosecuting these fellows. 
Ybu know that no Communist will t,.|l the truth, if it suits him to 
prevaricate; do you not ! 

Mr. Ui ixiTT. Yes; that isquitetrue. 

Mr. Rankin. No oath will bind a Communist : will it? 

Mr. lb 1. 1. rrr. No. 

Mr. Rankin. None whatever. 

Mr. Bi i.i ri i. No. 

Mr. Rankin. Nothing they will find will bind them: will it? 

Mr. Bl run. No. 

Mr. Rankin. Then why do we spend so much time in trying to 
find out whether or not we can enter into some agreement, when we 

know thai our side will be the only one thai will feel bound by ii \ 

Mr. Bi Well, Mr. Congressman, Eor very practical reasons. 

For example, if we had come to an agreement in the vear L941 
when the Soviet Union was dependent for its life on supplies from 
the United State— if at that time we had come to an agreement 

wnh Stalin that at the end of the war there should be -el up a I'nited 


States of Europe and that he would not extend his boundaries be- 
yond the boundaries with which he started in 1939 — if we had done 
that we could immediately, and should have, started an immense 
movement for the consolidation of a western European federation or 
United States of Europe, in whatever terms you want to put it. 

Mr. Rankin. Speaking 

Mr. Bullitt. May I finish what I am saying, sir ? 

Mr. Rankin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bullitt. If we had had a formal written agreement from 
Stalin, he could not have objected to our starting practical measures 
to set that afoot, and we might have established a very great element 
for democracy and peace in the world if we had done that. 

Now, the advantage of coming to agreements with the Soviet Union 
is merely that their agreement estops them from immediately making 
efforts, and public efforts, to prevent you from carrying out your side 
of the agreement. That is the practical value of any agreement with 
the Soviet Government. 

Mr. Rankin. When I think of the meeting of the United Nations, 
I am reminded that the towers of Babel have been collapsing in a 
confusion of tongues ever since the days of Genesis, and it is a sound 
warning to me that the United States had better be very careful. 
These professors that go out and say that we ought to abolish the 
United States, to become a subsidiary of a world government, in my 
opinion are spreading treason. 

Now you spoke awhile ago of the FBI. The FBI hasn't a better 
friend in Congress than I am. But don't you think that we ought 
to make the FBI an independent agency and extend its powers and 
furnish it all the funds it needs to make any investigation necessary 
anywhere at any time ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Congressman, that is a question which. I have 
never thought about — the question of making it an independent agency. 

With the latter part of your statement I agree heartily, and that is 
the FBI should have very greatly increased funds and that it should 
be encouraged by the Government to go into all the many ramifications 
of Communist activity in this country. 

Mr. Rankin. Now, you said a while ago that 60 percent of the 
people coming over here from Russia were Communists ? 

Mr. Bullitt, No, sir. My statement was, if I remember correctly, 
that GO percent of the members of the Communist Party had come to 
the United States as aliens. They were immigrants. Many of them 
have come from other countries than Russia. 

Mr. Rankin. Now, you are aware of the fact that there is a wide 
breach between the Communists and the anti-Communists in the 
Jewish race, are you? 

The Chairman. I don't think we ought to get into that question. 

Mr. Rankin. You wait. I am doing the questioning now. I am 
a Member of Congress. I want to ask you what percentage of those 
Communists, that 60 percent that you spoke of, are Jews ? 

Mr. Bullitt. I don't know. 

Mr. Rankin. You don't know ? 

Mr. Bullitt. I have no knowledge of it. 

Mr. Rankin. The information Ave have is that 75 percent of the 
members of the Communist Party in this country are Jews. 


Mr. Bullitt. I have no knowledge of that, if that is so. 
The Chairman. You say, Mr. Rankin, the information we have 
or you have? 

Mr. Rankin. I say we have. I don't know whether you have it 

or not, but we have. 

The Chairman. 1 don't think the committee has. 

Mr. Rankin. I do. 

Now, they have gone down through the Southern States and all 
over tlif country and tried to line up the Negroes. They don't care 
anything about the Negroes, you understand, but they are using them to 
try to cany on their program. They have taken these Negroes to 
.Moscow to teach them how to carry oil revolutions in this country. 
Are you aware of that? 

Mr. Bullitt. 1 have no personal knowledge of that. That may be 
entirely true, but I have no personal knowledge of it. 

Mr. Rankin. We had one before the committee the other day 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Rankin. And he said that they took him there, and had other 
Negroes there from the South — which we already knew — and taught 
them how to carry on revolutions. They taught them, as you say, 
how to begin, by destroying the waterworks and the light system, blow 
up bridges, and doing whatever is necessary to paralyze a city or a 

Now, were you aware of the fact that they were teaching this in 
that Communist school over there? 

Mr. BULLITT. I know that they have a school of revolution, in which 
they have representatives from very nearly every count ry in the world. 

1 have no specific knowledge, as I just said, of the presence of Amer- 
ican Negroes there, but. obviously, it wouldn't surprise me because 
they have had Chinese, Indochinese, Moroccans. Algerians. French- 
men, Italians, Germans — everybody. It is a world school of revolu- 

Mr. Rankin. Now. you may read the Communist Daily Worker. 
It is constantly maligning the anti-Communists in this country on 
the race question, and constantly maligning the Southern States, at- 
tempting to stir up race trouble all over the South, just as they are 
in oi her sect ions of the count ry. 

Now. this Negro from the North, who was here the other day. testi- 
fied that they stirred up the race riot in Detroit Last year. 

()i .• in e, we finally got through the press that there were about 
30 or 40 Negroes killed, and then we got the report which showed, 1 
think, there were about 600 of them. They have been using that kind 
of method to stir up race t rouble over this count i\. 

Mr. Bullitt. They will try to put raceagainst race. 

Mr. R \xkin. That is it. 

Mr. Bullitt. And creed against creed 

Mr. Rankin. Yes. 

Mr. Bl i i ri i. And I object very much, in this tight, to singling out 

any race or creed for special criticism. 

Mr. Rankin. All right. 

Mr. Bullttt. I think that this fight is one which is essentially Amer- 
ican. After all. we have our strength in the fact that we are people 
who came to this country from all over the earth, to try to find free- 


dom, and we learned how to work together — people of all nationali- 
ties and all races — for the common good of all. I personally don't 
feel that there is any racial issue whatsoever in this fight against 

Mr. McDowell. That is a very fine statement. 

Mr. Rankin. When you get along further, and if you will talk 
to these high-class American jews, you will find just what I am telling 

The Chairman. I think this part of the discussion is out of order, 
and I would suggest that the gentleman from Mississippi confine his 
questions to the statement that Mr. Bullitt made, and also to pertinent 

Mr. Rankin. Now, Mr. Bullitt, I want to ask you about this drive 
against the British Empire. You realize, of course, there is a terrific 

drive being made now in Great Britain 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rankin (continuing). By what they call the Zionists. Isn't 
that a Communist front ? 
Mr. Bullitt. No. 

Mr. Rankin. What is the difference ? 
Mr. Bullitt. No, no. 
Mr. Rankin. What is the difference ? 

Mr. Bullitt. No. Mr. Congressman, to call the Zionists a Com- 
munist front is, I think, to disregard the history of the past 40 years. 
I personally knew, and knew very well, the great Zionist leader of 
Palestine, whose name was Aaron Aaronson, who, unfortunately, was 
killed at the time of the Peace Conference at the end of World War I 
in an airplane accident. That man, who was one of the most eminent 
scientists in the world, being a great agronomist, the discoverer of 
wild wheat, was the leader of the Zionist movement in Palestine. No 
one could have been further from communism. No one could have 
been further from any Communist ideas. He was one of the finest 
human beings I have ever known. He started that. 

I have also known Dr. Weizman, who was the leader of the Zionist 
movement until the most recent congress, and Dr. Weizman is almost 
among the most eminent men in the world, and certainly is no Com- 
munist. I do not think it is fair to say that the Zionist movement 
is a Communist front ; emphatically "no." 

Mr. Rankin. One of the outstanding Zionists in this country, and 
the one who has criticized me most, boasted that some of his children 
were Communists, and I am just wondering how much of it is inter- 
woven with the Communist movement throughout the world. 

Now, then, they are opposing the British Empire, are they not? 
And if we go into Greece — I am asking this question because I want 
to know. I have had the white people of the South alarmed by these 
Reds sufficiently. I can take it and I can give it. They are asking 
us to go into Greece and Turkey, to stop the spread of communism, 
because Great Britain is no longer able to protect herself there, that is, 
protect the Greeks and the Turks, because she has to exhaust her 
efforts protecting her own Governmentj you might say, in Palestine ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Bullitt. No, sir; I don't think that that is correct, I have 
never heard that statement made, and I don't think it is_cprrect. The 
British problem is a very much more serious one than that. 


At the time of Napoleon there were 10,000,000 in whal is now Greal 
Britain. They achieved a population, and were able to supporl them, 
of 4.*>.<k Ix-foro this last war because they had coal at seaboard, 
quantities <>f the very best steam coal at seaboard. They sent that 
coal "til in their merchanl ships all over the world. They brought 
back, when they discharged the coal, the raw materials they needed 
for their factories. Following those merchant ships and that coal 
went British banking, British insurance, and Britisn investments. 

During this last war they had to Liquidatctheir investments abroad, 
(o pay for the war. At the same time their coal seams in < rreat Britain 
have become so small that they arc worked down to scam- of 2 and •"> 

feet. 5 'on know what coal mining is. and how hard it is to get coal 

out of a seam 2 or 3 feet wide. Our scams for the most part may be 
8 or 1" feet, which makes comparatively easy mining. They no longer 
have sufficient coal for their own needs in Great Britain. They, 
therefore, cannot export coal throughout the world. They, therefore, 
have great difficulty maintaining their merchant marine and getting 
cargoes for their outgoing ships, when they have to bring large quanti- 
ties of raw material-- for their manufacturing industr 

The consequences of that plus their consumption of their overseas 
investments, arc that they have a very big fundamental problem of 
how to keep alive this enormous population, which has increased from 
L0,000,000 to 45,000,000 in the past century. 

Mr. Rankin. I understand they have 

Mr. Bullitt. But that ; - a much larger question and a much more 
profoundly difficult question than the question of maintaining troop- 
in Palestine. 

Mr. Rankin. Now I am going to say to yon. while I am on that 

Mr. Bullitt. Ye?, sir. 

Mr. Rankin. That one of the men who gave us the information as 
to the number of Jews, percentage-wise, in the Communist Party. 

a Jew himself and w as an ant i-( lommunist Jew. There arc plent \ 
of then i in this count ry that are ant i-Conm it mists and they know what 
t hese Communists are doing to them, as well as to the rest of thecoun- 

The Chairman. Mr. Rankin, may T say something? Mr. Bullitt 
was very kind to come here today. 

Mr. 1\ wkix. I know. 

The Chairman. He has been sick for 4 months. 

Mr. Bi i.t.irr. It is all right. 

The Chairman. And if we con hi jusl bring the questions to a clos 

SOOn, I think it will he helpful to Mr. Hill lilt. 

Mr. Rankin. Let me ask you about the British Government as it 
now stands 

The Chairman. Doesn't that get into the field i i ign affairs a 

little bit, and isn't that a matter cor the Foreign Adair- Committer ! 

Mr. Rankin. T was jusl going to ask him if he was familiar with 
the Strachey philosophy in Greal Britain, and if he could distinguish 
between it and the Communist philosophy in Russia. 

Mr. In i mm. That is all right. I have no objection to answering 


Mr. \l \ \ ki\. How is that \ 


Mr. Bullitt. I would be very glad to answer that question. 

Mr. Rankin. I would be very glad to hear you. 

Mr. Bullitt. The distinction is the following: The philosophy of 
the present British Government is Socialist. It is not Communist. 
The distinction between the Socialist and the Communist is the fol- 
lowing: The Socialist in the first place believes in a gradual approach 
to the establishment of socialism, by legal and democratic means. 
They stand for democracy. The Communist stands for dictatorship. 

Mr. Rankin. Have you ever read Strachey's book? 

Mr. Bullitt. Which one ? I have read several. 

Mr. Rankin. He is a member of the cabinet. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. I know him. I have known him personally for 
30 years. 

Mr. Rankin. Doesn't he advocate taking over all the land, just as 
they do in Russia, together with all the factories and all other means 
of production and distribution? 

Mr. Bullitt. So far as I know — and I may be entirely wrong, he 
may have written a new book which I haven't read, but so far as I 
know, what is advocated by the present labor government of Great 
Britain is the nationalization of certain very large industries. They 
have taken over the coal industry. They intend to take over, I believe, 
the production of electricity, the railroads, and various other large 
units. They do not intend to abolish private property. They do not 
intend to take over small businesses or small manufacturing units. 

Mr. Rankin. That is the information I wanted. They do not pro- 
pose to take over the land \ 

Mr. Bullitt. Xo. I do not think so. 

Mr. Rankin. And to make slaves out of the tillers of the soil. 

Mr. Bullitt. No, emphatically not. There is no government in the 
world that stands more firmly today for all the rights in our Bill of 
Rights than the present British labor government. 

Mr. Rankin. That is all. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bonner. 

Mr. Bonner. Mr. Bullitt, your statement today, considering the 
great background you have, startles me and would startle thousands 
and thousands of other people in America could they be here to hear 

The thing that interests me is what is the delusion that attracts 
American citizens to the Communist Party and movement? 

Mr. Bullitt. I think it is largely that they have swallowed the 
propaganda which has been poured on this country in very, very large 

There are a great many more true believers in the Communist para- 
dise outside the Soviet Union than there are inside, because inside they 
have to live with the facts. They have to live with the NKVD, that 
is. the secret police. They have to live under absolute tyranny. Over 
here, people can read propaganda tracts written by Communists and 
imagine this beautiful world, this beautiful Utopia. Well, people 
have been writing books about Utopia ever since Plato's "Republic" 
and much later Thomas Moore's "Utopia," and so on. It is wonder- 
fully nice to read about. It has no relation whatsoever to the truth. 

I think that a great many perfectly good Americans have simply been 
taken in by extremely brilliantly conceived and written propaganda. 


The Communists have never best lated to spend a great deal of money 
over here, to send lecturers of all kinds, to send agents. There are a 
great many intelligent men in the American Communist Party. Their 
bread and butter is in it, and they have a vested interest in maintain- 
ing it. 

Mr. Bonner. My first keen interest in this subject was brought about 
by a gentleman who appeared before this committee, who comes from 
one 01 the oldest families in America. When he first appeared before 
the committee, I though the committee had made a serious mistake. 
On his second appearance, I knew the committee hadn't made a mis- 
take. He is a highly intelligent man. I observe that a lot of men 
this committee calls before it are highly intelligent men. 

Now. why do these people, who are an intelligent group, fall for 
this? I can understand just the run of the mine reading these stories 
on Utopia and falling for it. hut these oilier people are able to read 
and are able to understand beyond that and read between the lines, and 
they contact men like you and other people who have traveled abroad 
and know. What is it that attracts these highly intelligent people. 

Mr. Bullitt. I think, in the lirst place, they are men who are at- 
t racted by the ultimate idea. There is an enormous philisophy behind 
this thing. The theory behind it is that if you can abolish private 
property and establish communism everywhere, then finally the state 
will wither away, that there will be no state and everybody can live 
in sort of happy anarchy. [Laughter.] This is a fact. If it in- 
terests you. I can give you a couple of quotations on the subject. 

Mr. Bonner. I would like to hear it. That is the most interesting 
part of this to me. 

Mr. Bullitt. I hope I can find these readily, and not keep you 

I am quoting my own book. I suppose it i* justifiable to quote 

The Soviet government believes in a Communist creed, which it teaches t<> all 
its children, for which it prepares them to live, and. if need l»<\ to (lie. That 
is the Marx-Lenin-Stalin creed which denies God and claims to be based <»n sci- 
entific fact; but is based on the improbable assumption that the establishment 
of Communist dictatorship throughout the earth and the abolition of privafa 
ownership of the means of production will end all war, civil and International, 
and s<> Improve the nature iif ail men in nil nations that, in Lenin's phrase, "the 
state will wither away" and all men will live without a state in perfect freedom 
and happiness. As Engels, the collaborator of Marx, envisioning a Communist 
world, wrote, "The machine of the state is put into the museum of antiquities, 
alongside <>f the spinning wheel and the bronze axe." 

Lenin • • • believed thai the state, whether In ins hands or in the hands 
of a "bourgeois government" was an Instrument of violence ; but that, while living 
nude!' Communist dictatorship, men could be prepared for iter feet freedom. 

And here is another ([notation from Lenin : 

"While there is a Btate", be said, "there is no freedom. 

When there is freedom there will be no state." 

And then here is perhaps the explanation that you are h>. king for: 

The mysticism of this belief Is perhaps t 1 •■ reason whj it has evoked aa greal 
dcvo(i,,n and self-sacrifice as many religious creeds. The Communist true be- 
liever offers his life as gallantly ms an earlj Christian. He believes thai be is 

fighting for the emancipation Of :ill humanity from all evil. He thinks he serves 
eternal truth. The Communist Party, to him. is a union of the faithful. His 
Old testament is the hooks of Marx and Kiil'oIs; his new testament the works of 
Lenin ami Stalin. In his idolatry he is profoundly religious. The Soviet Union 
is to him the Church Militant. 


Is that sufficient? 

Mr. Bonner. Yes. Then they are going to lead us back to the 
Garden of Eden ? 

Mr. Bullitt. A very, very heavily and evilly populated Garden of 

Mr. Bonner. I want to ask you one more question, and I am 
through. In certain substantial and reliable papers I see editorials 
that this committee witch hunts. Of course, I haven't got the time 
to do any witch hunting. From your observation of this committee, 
are we proceeding along the right line, in your opinion ? 

Mr. Bullitt. I hope so. 

Mr. Bonner. You don't hope so. I am asking you. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. I think you ought to go into this just as far 
as you can go into it. I think you ought to make the recommendations. 

I do not believe, as I said previously, that the time is now ripe to 
make it a crime to belong to the 

Mr. Bonner. You wouldn't sponsor this legislation ? 

Mr. Bullitt. No, I should say not. I don't think the time is ripe. 

Mr. Bonner. Then am I right from what you said, that the great- 
est good that this committee can do is just pour light on this whole 
subject, all over the country ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Congressman, I have made certain specific sug- 
gestions. I think you were here when I made them. 

Mr. Bonner. Yes. 

Mr. Bullitt. I made certain specific suggestions. If this com- 
mittee can use its influence to go into the things which I suggested, 
I think it would be wise. I think, further, it would be very wise to 
attempt to work out legislation which at some later date, when the 
emergency is more acute and more felt by the country so that you 
could be certain of great national support, and that moment will 

Mr. Bonner. But what you have said leads me to fear that we 
haven't got much time. 

Mr. Rankin. We are at war now. 

Mr. Bullitt. Mr. Congressman, we do have time, in this sense 

Mr. Bonner. You know, I listened very carefully fb what you 
said about the downfall of France, and that it happened in about 
4 or 5 years. 

Br. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Bonner. And you compared the two periods. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Bonner. Which were very similar, and it threw the fear of 
God into me, when I heard you say what you said. 

Mr. Bullitt. May I finish this, sir ? 

In my belief, the Soviet Union will not dare to attack the United 
States until the Soviet Union has manufactured the atomic bomb 
in quantity and until it feels that it has an air force superior to the 
air force of the United States. 

That gives us a certain period in which we will definitely remain 
stronger than the Soviet Union and during which, when we say 
"Stop" to Stalin, and mean it, he will stop. 

But the fundamental thing which we have to realize is that 
Stalin, like Hitler, will not stop of his own accord. He can only be 


Mr. Bonner. Yes. We are tearing down our national defense, and, 
according to your testimony, they are building up theirs. 

Mr. lu i.i.i it. Very much so. 

Mr. Bonner. I was in France during the last war, in an infantry 
company, and I went back there in 1937 ami visited a lot of people 
thai I knew. I saw what was going on. and it surprised me and it 
shocked me that they didn't believe Germany meant anything but a 
big parade. 

Mr. Bn.urr. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bon ni a. Your statement of the short I ime within which France 
fell and your observation of what is going on today lead- me to 
believe that we haven't L r "t much more time. 

Mr. Bullitt. Well. I think this, that it is utterly vital for it- to 
support the policy of President Truman, to -top the Soviet Union 
where she is and not to permit her to take over a series of new- 
peoples. The whole strategy of conquest of Stalin is to lull powerful 
peoples into a sense «d* false security, while he is securing strategic 
areas and additional strength with which to attack them. It is pre- 
cisely the Hitler strategy all over again. 

Mr. Bonner. According to your testimony, they have already 
got the French Government. Now, what can we do 

Mr. I)i 1. 1. iTT. No: they haven't already got the French Government. 
They already are extremely powerful in it and may be able, by a 
general strike, to produce a revolutionary situation, hut the French 
Parliament is an absolutely democratically elected parliament, just 
as democratically elected as our own Government. And 7 -J percent 
of the French deputies, that is to say representatives, today are anti- 
Communist. Only 28 percent are Communist. The power of the 
Communists in France lies in their control of the trade-unions and 
their infiltration through economic life. 

Mr. Bonner. Isn't that rapidly developing here ? 

Mr. Bullitt. I trust it isn't, and I don't believe it is. 

Mr. Bonner According to the testimony we have had before this 
committee as to the mode which is followed in selecting the ollicers 
of certain unions, it is rapidly developing. 

Mr. Bullitt. I think it is extraordinarily dangerous to have any 
Communist union leaders anywhere in this country. 

Mr. Bonner. Since we are thinking about helping Turkey and 

Greece, what could we do to help France! 1 They ;ire SO close to this 

borderline now. What must he done to help them? 

Mr. Bullitt. A great many things. In the first place, President 
TVuman's action the other day points t he line. I think. 

Mr. Bonner. You refer to the Greece -it ual ion \ 

Mr. Bullitt. You see. although he hooked this policy on to the 
action for Greece and Turkey, it had a world-wide significance, much 
greater than the problems of the Near Bast. When he said was — and 
I wish I had the text of his remark.- he re 

Mr. Bonner. I think we have already heard so much about that we 
know it by memory. 

Mr. Bullitt. I read it enough and I ought to remember it exactly, 
but I am afraid I cant quote him accurately. However, what he ^aul 
was, Virtually, that we must support nations which were resisting con- 
quest by outside totalitarian regimes or their inside agents. That is 
virtually what it amounted to. 


Now. that applies to France as well as to Greece and to Turkey, and 
I believe we ought to do everything we can to aid the anti -Communist 
Parties of France to eliminate the Communists from their present 
threatening position and to help France get back on her feet as a great 
democratic nation. 

Mr. Bonner. What do you think Russia would do with the atomic 
bomb ? 

Mr. Bullitt. If she had it and we did not, it would already have 
been dropped on the United States. 

Mr. Rankin. If she had and we didn't. 

Mr. Bullitt. If she had it and we didn't. 

Mr. Bonner. Your testimony frightens me. I am glad to have 
heard you, and I think you have told the American people something — 
if the newspapers would carry it — that would open up their eyes and 
maybe make them realize what a dangerous threat we have now before 
us, notwithstanding all that certain papers say about this committee 
and those who are interested in the preservation of this country. 

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Bonner, will you yield there for a question ? 

Mr. Bonner. That is all. 

The Chairman. Mr. Mundt has another question. 

Mr. Mundt. Speaking further about these restraints which pos- 
sibly we could apply and stay within our constitutional confines and 
not take the step of outlawing the party now, it has occurred to me 
that we look a little bit foolish by granting passports to fellows like 
Foster which enable them to travel around overseas and contact 
directly their' sources of information and direction, and then come 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Mundt. You are a former member of the State Department? 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Mundt. Would there be a way in which we could somehow cir- 
cumscribe the right— it isn't right, but it is a privilege — to get a 

Mr. Bullitt. It is a privilege. 

Mr. Mundt. To get those passports. 

Mr. Bullitt. All that has to be done is for the order to be given 
to the Passport Division of the Department of State, to give no more 
passports to Communists and that ends the matter. 

Mr. Mundt. That would be a strictly constitutional matter ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Strictly constitutional and within the right of the 
Government, No one has the right to have a passport, The passport 
is a privilege. 

Mr. Bonner. Mr. Chairman, just one short question. 

The Chairman. Will the gentleman yield ? 

Mr. Mundt. When you were in Moscow, you said that you knew 
about this revolutionary school which they have over there, to which 
nationals are brought in from all over the world. I just wondered, 
as a matter of getting the thing specifically for the record, whether 
it has a name. 

Mr. Bullitt. I am sorry to say I have forgotten what the name is. 

Mr. Mundt. When I was in Moscow, about a year ago, several 
members of our Embassy staff — not the Ambassador, but some of the 


staff members, >a i<l. in viewing this change in the attitude toward the 
church, which you have described 

Mr. Bullttt. Yes. 

Mr. Mi m>t. That thai might be a device by which the Soviets were 
attempting to supply a new emotional urge for communism, because 
the old promises, ."> years apart, have begun to work kind of thin, 
and perhaps they were utilizing the Russian Orthodox Church to 
supply that urge. Would you think thai might be a possibility! 

Mr. Bullitt. I think they will use the Orthodox Church to the 
greatest possible extent and they certainly have the leaders in hand 
now. but how far they will be able to go in reallv using the church 
for such purpose I don't know because anj Christian church teaches 
the Gospel and it teaches Cod, and Christ crucified and believed in, 
which is contrary to every basic belief of the Communists and of the 
Soviet Government. If they try to use thai too far, they are Likely 
to find themselves blown up by their own bomb. 

Mr. Mundt. I like your statement in your book which, like your 
memory of President Truman's statement, isn't perfect, bul in which 
you bring out the point thai if they let God gel his fool in the door 
ho may shoulder himself all the way in. I think there IS that danger, 
from their standpoint. 

N >w one other statement. It is not a question. The last time I 
heard you before a congressional commit tec. you were testifying before 
the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, on the lend lease issue, and 
I just want to say to my colleagues that I think we have a very far- 
sighted witness before us today, because at that time, as I recall his 
testimony, he suggested that in the event lend-lease was extended to 
Russia, we should sei up certain quid pro quo, such as he described 
today, which would compel her to let us have something to say about 
the direction of that part of the world a fterward. Unfortunately that 
was not written into the hill, hut you were certainly very prophetic 
in your pronouncements at that time. 

Mr. Bullitt. Thank you, sir. 

The Chairman. Mr. Bonner, you had another question '. 

Mi-. Bonner. You interested me. in that pari of your talk that 
Russia was refusing to permit the entry of persons we desired to 

Mr. BrnLiTT. Yes. 

Mr. Bonner. Yet we are still permitting them to come into this 

Mr. BrrxTTT. Yes. 

Mr. Bonner. Their emhassies. and other government functions, in 
this country are highly staffed, and overstaffed, apparently, compared 
to any other nation. 

Mr. Bullitt. Yes. 

Mr. Bonner. You would, advocate, then, putting a limit on those 
we permit to come into this country? 

Mr. Bullitt. Oh. emphatically. I think we ought to, in so far as 
it is in our national interest to do so, run our relations with the Soviet 
Union on a complete basis of reciprocity. 

Mr. Bonner. In other words 

'Sly. Bullitt. May I finish / 

Mr. Bonner. Yes; excuse me. 


Mr. Bullitt. For example : They will not permit us to put a con- 
sulate in Kiev. There is no earthly reason why we should permit 
them, then, to put a consulate, say, in Chicago. They will not permit 
us to have a consulate here, there, or elsewhere. There is no earthly 
reason why we should permit them to have any more people in the 
United States than they permit us to have in the Soviet Union. I 
think that throughout we should treat the Soviet Government on a 
basis of reciprocity. 

The Chairman/ Will the gentleman yield to me at that point ? 

Mr. Bonner. If they won't permit the reentry of the people that 
we desire to deport, then we should stop the entry of their citizens 
into this country. I gather that from your statement. 

Mr. Bullitt. No. I think there is a very interesting question 
which you have raised there, but I wouldn't quite agree with the sen- 
tence in which you expressed it. 

You see if you let in persons born in what is now the territory of 
the Soviet Union, you can deport them only to the territory of the 
Soviet Union, and since the Soviet Union will not permit them to 
come back — I am not talking about diplomatic officials, I am talking 
about ordinary immigrants to the United States, and not officials — 
you have them permanently on your hands, whether you like it or not, 
because there isn't any place you can send them. I think it is one 
of the questions that you may very well consider, one of the questions 
that might very well be considered by this committee, whether we 
should permit immigration from countries which refuse to take back 
their citizens if, under the law of the United States, they are con- 
demned to be deported. 

Mr. Bonner. That is the very question I asked you. 

Mr. Bullitt. That is precisely it. I didn't understand you. 

Mr. Bonner. Then, where a person has lost his country, by the fact 
that Russia has taken it over, the same rule would apply, wouldn't it ? 

Mr. Bullitt. Well, I should say that under no circumstances should 
we send back any anti-Communist Pole, Estonian, Latvian, Lithu- 
anian, or Rumanian. 

Mr. Bonner. Though we wish to deport him ? 

Mr. Bullitt. I said anti-Communist. 

Mr. Bonner. Oh, oh. 

Mr.. Bullitt. I would not send back any man to certain death at 
the hands of the Soviet government, and that is what it means if 
you send those people back. I would not deport them, either, to the 
Soviet Union from our zone oi occupation in Germany. 

Mr. Bonner. That is all. 

The Chairman. Mr. Ambassador, you mentioned reciprocity. You 
probably read in the papers in the last 2 weeks, the reciprocity on the 
question of patents. I just happened to make a statement on the sub- 
ject on the floor of the House, and General Marshall brought up in 
his conference with Mr. Molotov. I made the statement how we had 
given Russia all of our patents, at prices ranging from 10 cents to 25 
cents apiece, and one day we gave them 60,000 patents, and how Russia 
hasn't given us a single patent since 1927. 

The reciprocity that would apply in these other cases should also 
apply on the question of patents, don't you think? 


Mr. Bullitt. T think it should apply throughout. There is no 
reason why we should permit any oat ion t<> ( reat us in a manner which 
is not thai generally accepted as denoting good neighborliness in the 
world, without treating them in precisely the same way. 

I will give you a very simple example of it. In the Soviet Union 
all ambassadors are spied on constantly. 

Mr. Bonner. Whal was that? 

Mr. Bullitt. In the Soviel Union, all ambassadors are spied <>n 
constantly by the Soviet secret police. They arc followed everywhere 
they go, wherever they go, by an auto mobil e containing the chauffeur 
and three additional members of the NKVI). even if they go to the 
country for a picnic, or anything else. They are followed every place 
they go, so their movements are recorded. Everyone they speak to 
is recorded on the hooks of the XKYD. 

Well, the Polish Ambassador, when T was their, got a little hit 
angry at this, and he. five times, asked the Soviel Foreign Office 
to stop it. Then he asked his government to apply reciprocity. So 
the next time thai the Soviel Ambassador in Warsaw walked out of 
his house, there was an automobile behind his car containing four 
Poles, in medieval costumes, with -words and plumes, and every place 
he went he was followed by these people. When he protested, they 
said, "This is just for your protection, the way you protect our Am- 
bassador in Moscow." 

Well, 3 day- later there was no more NKVD following the Polish 
Ambassador in Moscow. 

Now, that was a very simple and rather comic little episode of 
reciprocity, but the Russians understand that. Tf they choose to 
kick you, all right they must expect one hack. They Bimply think 
you are no pood and soft, if when they kick' you you simply hand out 
everything they want. 

So, I believe very much in reciprocity in dealing with the Soviet 

Mr. Rankin. Just one question 

The Chairman. Now. gentlemen, we have been on this a long 
time. Make your question short, because the Ambassador is tired. 

Mr. Rankin. I will make them short. 

The Chairman. I understand you have two or three questions? 

Mr. Rankin. Yes; I will make them short. 

Mr. Bullitt, according to your statement. Russian communism is 
already making war on the United States? 

Mr. Bullitt. No, sir. 

Mr. Rankin. On the people of the United Stato s. 

Mr. Bullitt. T didn't say that. sir. 

Mr. Rankin. They are Virtually in a state of war with ns, so far 
as attempting to destroy our system of government. 

Mr. Bullitt. They :ire engaged in an effort to seize strategic posi- 
tions throughout the world, for eventual use in an attack on the United 

Mr. Rankin. All right. Then you would Bay the are preparing 
for war. 

Now, the most important military object on earth today is the 
atomic bomb. You said a moment ago, in response to Mr. Bonner's 
question, that if Russia had the atomic bomb and we didn't she 


would already have blown our cities to pieces. Was that your state- 

Mr. Bullitt. I said she would already have dropped it on us, which 
I believe sincerely. 

Mr. Rankin. Yes. In other words, if they had the atomic bomb 
and we didn't she would already have blown our cities to pieces and 
blown our people into submission, or into eternity. 

Now, don't you think, under those circumstances, that we should not 
only keep the atomic bomb but keep an ample supply of them on hand, 
and keep planes equipped to distribute them and aviators trained for 
that purpose ? 

Mr. Bullitt. I do. 

Mr. Rankin. So as to keep one step ahead of any other country 
in the world that would attempt to develop the atomic bomb with 
the intention of using it on us or on any other nation. 

Mr. Bullitt. I do ; emphatically. 

Mr. Rankin. I think that is our duty, for our own safety. 

You have made a great statement, and I want you to know I am 
grateful, indeed. 

Mr. Bullitt. Thank you. 

The Chairman. Mr. Ambassador, the committee deeply appreciates 
your coming here today, and we hope that we weren't too long and 
that you feel absolutely all right. 

The Chair wants to announce that tomorrow we will have Mr. 
William Green at 10 : 30 and Mr. Ray Sawyer, national commander 
of the American Vets, World War II, at 2 : 30. 

Mr. Ambassador, I again want to thank you, and we hope you 
will be with us and that we will be seeing you soon again. 

Mr. Bullitt. Thank you very much, sir. 

The Chairman. The meeting stands adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 40 p. m., the committee adjourned.)