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Full text of "The Katyn Forest Massacre : hearings before the Select Committee to Conduct an Investigation of the Facts, Evidence and Circumstances of the Katyn Forest Massacre, Eighty-second Congress, first[-second] session, on investigation of the murder of thousands of Polish officers in the Katyn Forest near Smolensk, Russia .."

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THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



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HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SELECT COMMITTEE TO CONDUCT AN 
INVESTIGATION OF THE FACTS, EVIDENCE, 
AND CIECUMSTANCES OF THE 
KATYN FOEEST MASSACKE ^ > 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGKESS 

SECOND SESSION 
ON 

INVESTIGATION OF THE MURDER OF THOUSANDS OF 
POLISH OFFICERS IN THE KATYN FOREST 

NEAR SMOLENSK, RUSSIA -^ 77 /P/) i/ 

- H^us- 

PART 5 pj. 5"_-n 

(FRANKFURT, GERMANY) f 



APRIL 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, AND 26, 1952 



Printed for the use of the Select Committee To Conduct an Investigation 
of the Facts, Evidence, and Circumstances of the Katyn Forest Massacre 




UNITED STATES V/ }^ 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
93'44 WASHINGTON : 1952 



}± 




SELECT COMMITTEE TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION OF THE 

FACTS, EVIDENCE, AND CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE KATYN FOREST 

MASSACRE 

RAY J. MADDEN, Indiana, Chairman 

DANIEL J. FLOOD, Pennsylvania GEORGE A. DONDERO, Michigan 

FOSTER FURCOLO, Massachusetts ALVIN E. O'KONSKI, Wisconsin 

THADDEUS M. MACHROWICZ, Michigan TIMOTHY P. SHEEHAN, Illinois 
John J. Mitchell, Chief Counsel 
II 






CONTENTS 



Testimony of — Page 

Ahreus, Friedrich 1287, 1521 

AUgayer, Erwin 1505 

Beck, Werner, Dr 1511 

Bedenk, Albert. Col 1249 

Bless, Hans 1416, 1471 

Czapski, Jozef 1230 

Genschow, Karl 1577 

Herrmann, Karl 1509 

Jaederlunt, Christer 1557 

Kawecki, Wladyslaw 1497 

Kempner, Robert, Dr. (Lansdowne, Pa.) 1534 

Kramer, Rudi 156S 

Naville, Francois, Dr. (Geneva, Switzerland) . 1602^ 

Oberhaeuser, Eugen, Gen 1263, 1519' 

Orsos, Ferenc, Dr 159T 

Palmieri, Vencenzo Mario, Dr, (Naples, Italy) 1617 

Pfeiffer, Albert 1319 

Skarginsky, Matvey 1574 

Stahmer, Otto, Dr 1549 

Stephan, Werner 1246 

Sweet. Paul, Dr. (Bucks, England) 1337 

Tramsen, Helge, Dr. (Denmark) 1420,1475,1581 

Von Eichborn, Reinhardt 1281 

Von Gersdorff, Rudolph 1303 

Von Herff, Fritz 1491 

Vogelpoth. Paul 1329 

Zietz. Wiihelm, Dr 1485 

Exhibits : 

1. Returned to witness. 

1-A. Russian memorandiun concerning Poli.sh prisoners of war who 
did not return (identical with exhibit 50-A appearing in 
pt. IV. p. 944). 

1-B. Translation of Russian memorandum 1238 

2. Letter of invitation from Katyn committee to Federal Republic 

of Germany 1244 

2-A. Transmittal letter of Department of State covering German 

diplomatic mission reply to committee 1245 

2-B. Reply to committee invitation by diplomatic mission of the 

Federal Republic of Germany 1245 

3. Dnieper Castle, headquarters of Signal Regiment 537 1291 

4. Railroad station at Gniezdowo, Russia 1298 

5. Military Field Police Secretary Voss talking to two other German 

officers 1307 

6. No exhibit 6 due to incorrect numbering. 

7. Professor Orsos of Hungary examining corpse at German exhu- 

mation 1315 

8. German officer discussing Katyn with delegation of journalists 1316 

9. American and British prisoners of war talking to a Russian native- 1316 

10. Russian worker with Polish Red Cross Director Skarzynski and 

others 1317 

11. Group of German soldiers, members of exhumation and identifi- 

cation squad at Katyn 1325 

12. Site of mass graves before exhumations 1325 

13. Quarters of German soldiers near Katyn 1326 

14. Dedicated graves of relmried Katyn victims 1326 

r\ ni 



IV CONTENTS 

Exhibits— Continued ' Pago 

15. Page of a Polish officer's pay book 1327 

16. Lieutenant Voss showing possessions of victims 1328 

17. Rel)nrial place for Polish murdered 1328 

IcS. No exhibit 18 due to incorrect numbering. 

19. German, officer, Lieutenant Vogelpoth (witness at German 

hearings) inspecting growth of grass 1332 

20. Delegation inspecting gi'oup of corpses 1333 

21. German Foreign Office memorandum of conversation with Goeb- 

bels concerning the discovery of Katyn graves, April 13, 1943 — 1340 

22. Captured German war document with translation 1342 

23. No exhibit 23 submitted. 

24. Captured German war document with translation 1344 

2ii. Captured Gorman war document with translation 1366 

26. Captured German war document with translation 1368 

27. Captured German war document with translation 1370 

28. Captured German war document with translation 1374 

29. Captured German war document with translation 1376 

30. Captured German war document with translation 1379 

31. Captured German war document with translation 1381 

32. Captured German war document with translation 1383 

33. Captured German war document with translation 1386 

34. Captured German war document with translation 1389 

35. Captured German war document with translation 1390 

36. Captured German war document with translation 1392 

37. Captured German war document with translation 1396 

38. Captured German war document with translation 1404 

39. Captured German war document with translation 1407 

40. Captured German war document with translation 1410 

41. Not included as it partially duplicated exhibit 5-A, part III 

(Chicago). 

42. Captured German war document with translation 1414 

43. Rows of exhumed bodies at Katyn 1424 

44. Professor Subik and Dr. Transen standing in mass grave 1425 

45. Katyn victims buried in tiers 14'-7 

46. Professor Buhtz in presence of Medical Commission removing 

identification papers from body 1429 

47. View of autopsy tables showing members of International Medi- 

cal Commission at work 1430 

48. Dr. Tramsen selecting body from mass grave 1430 

. 49. Dr. Tramsen performing autopsy at Katyn 1431 

50. Prof. Frantisek Hajek removing hoot of Katyn dead 1432 

51. Professor Miloslavich examining identification paper of Katyn 

victim as Dr. Tramsen watches 1433 

52. Skull of Katyn victim with bullet visible 1434 

53. Polish officer's hand tied with cord 1435 

54. Polish officer's diary ^^^^ 

55. Personal belongings of a Polish general 1437 

56. Laboratory in German institute at Smolensk, Professor Miloslavich 

holding skull 1438 

57. Final meeting of committee at institute in Smolensk 1439 

58. Professor Orsos and other Medical Commission members discussing 

proctocol with members of the Health :Ministry 1439 

59. Members of Internaticmal IMedical Commission in Berlin 1440 

60. Members of committee walking past Dnieper Castle in Katyn 

Forest 1441 

61. Cap insignia of Polish victim 1444 

(i2. Mobilization notice and identification slip of Polish officer 1445 

63. Stamp collection of a Katyn victim 1448 

64. Polish zloty (currency found on body of a Katyn victim) 1450 

65. Polish coins found on exhinned body 1454 

66. Not published. Exhibit filed with committee. 

67. Not piiblished. Exhibit filed with commitU'e. 

(•)8. Roll call list of oflicers with notation "Kozielsk, 12 April 1940" 1458 

69. No exhibit 69 due to incon-ect numbering. 

70. Skull of Polish officer showing entrance hole of bullet 1461 



CONTENTS V 

Exhibits— Continued ^^J^" 

71. Personal effects found on Katyn victims 1462 

72. Body of woman in anotber mass grave, not with Polish officers — 1463 

73. Letter from Mr. Bless to Katyn committee 1473 

74. General Oberhaeuser's free-hand sketch of Katyn area as he re- 

membered it 1520 

75. Arrival of International Commission at Katyn 1522 

76. Colonel Abrens greets medical experts 1523 

77. Exhibit 77 withdrawn. 

78. Colonel Abrens talking to Russian beekeeper 1524 

79. Dnieper Castle 1525 

80. Dnieper Castle 1526 

81. Letter addressed to Colonel Ahrens in Halle, November 15, 1941 — 1527 

82. Article by Mr. Jaederlunt in the Stockholm Tidningen, April 18, 

1934 1559 

83. Article by Mr. Jaederlunt in the Stockholm Tidningen, April 18, 

1943 1560 

84. Conversation between members of the International Medical Com- 

mission and a Russian native 1584 

85. Dr. Bubtz and Medical Commission members examining one of 

exhumed bodies 1584 

86. Dr. Palmieri in conversation with unidentified man at Katyn 1585 

87. Professor Hajek holding arm of Katyn victim 1585 

88. Dr. Orsos explains theory of calcification in brain pulp to the mem- 

bers of the Commission 1586 

89. Dr. Orsos (Hungary) and Professor Saxen (Finland) examining 

exhumed Katyn corpse 1587 

90. Dr. Orsos (Hungary) performing autopsy being watched by Pro- 

fessor Saxen and German soldier assisting 1588 

91. Dr. Orsos (Hungary) indicating body to be exhumed and its re- 

moval 1589 

92. Dr. Naville and Dr. Palmieri examining badly decomposed corpse 1590 

93. Exhumation of Katyn victim — watching at edge of pit is Dr. Orsos 

and others .. _ 1591 

94. View of bodies in graves 1592 

95. View of partial exhumation of bodies at Katyn 1593 

96. Aerial view of Katyn Forest area in vicinity of Dnieper Castle 1594 

97. Exhumed Katyn victim 1595 

98. Exhumed bodies of Polish victims at Katyn 1596 

99. German forester making laboratory tests of trees from Katyn 

Forest 1606 

100. Button taken from Polish officer's uniform 1607 

101. Box of matches and documents removed from exhumed body 1608 

102. Document removed from exhumed body 1609 

103. Hand-made wooden cigarette holder taken from body exhumed at 

Katyn. Kozielsk marked thereon 1609 

104. Dr. Naville removing documents and box of matches from Katyn 

corpse 1610 

105. Dr. Hajek performs an autopsy on a Katyn corpse showing the 

degree of decomposition 1611 

106. Exhumed body of Katyn Forest victim showing degree of decom- 

position 1611 

107. International Medical Commission signing protocol 1613 



THE KATYN FOEEST MASSACKE 



MONDAY, APEIL 21, 1952 

House of Representatives, 
The Select Committee on the Katyn Forest Massacre, 

Frankfurt / M ain, Germo/ny. 

The committee met at 2 p. m., pursuant to call, in the main court- 
room, resident officer's building, 45 Bockenheimer Anlager, Hon. Ray 
J. Madden (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Messrs. Madden, Flood, Machrowicz, Dondero, and 
O'Konski. 

Also present : John J. Mitchell, chief counsel to the select committee, 
and Roman Pucinski, committee investigator and interpreter. 

Present also : Eckhardt von Halm, interpreter. 

(The proceedings and testimony were translated into the German 
language. ) 

Chairman Madden. The hearings will come to order. 

I might state that these hearings at Frankfurt, Germany, of the 
special Katyn investigating committee, are one of a number of hearings 
already held by this committee. This committee was authorized by 
Congress on the 18th of September 1951. 

During October 1951, the committee took testimony in Washington, 
D. C. When Congress reconvened in January, after a 3 months' recess, 
we again held a series of hearings in the city of Washington, D. C. 
In the middle of March we convened and held a series of hearings 
in Chicago, 111. Last week we held 4 days of hearings in London, 
England. 

The Congress of the United States created this committee for the 
purpose of recording testimon}', documents, and data pertaining to 
the Katyn massacre, which took place at the beginning of World 
War II. This committee is creating a precedent in that it is the first 
time that testimony and hearings have been conducted regarding an 
international crime similar to Katyn. 

International crimes and atrocities or mass murders have taken 
place before in history, but this is the first atrocity or international 
crime where two governments have accused the other of committing 
the crime, and up to the creation of this committee, there has never 
been a neutral committee created to investigate the facts and circum- 
stances of the massacre at Katyn. If a committee of this kind had 
not taken the steps that we are taking, future generations, when 
they read the history of the mass murders at Katyn, would wonder 
why our civilization never took any steps to place the responsibility 
for those crimes at Katyn. That is the reason why the Congress 
of the United States authorized our committee. 

Mr. John J. Mitchell, the counsel of the committee, will you an- 
nounce the first witness and call him forward ? 

1229 



1230 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Chairman, the first witness is Jozef Czapski, 
of Paris, France. He is the individual who searched for the missing 
Polish officers in Russia during the years 1941 and 1942. 

Chairman ]\Lvddex. Is Mr. Czapski in the room? 

Mr. Czapski, do you object to being photographed? 

Mr. Czapski. No. 

Chairman Maddeist. Mr. Mitchell, the counsel, will read a statement 
and this statement will be read first in English and then in Polish 
and German. 

Will the two interpreters stand and be sworn ? 

Mr. Flood. What is your name ? 

Mr. PuciNSKi. My name is Roman Pucinski. 

Mr. Flood. You are the interpreter in what language ? 

Mr. Pucinski. Polish. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name ? 

Mr. VON Hahn. Eckhardt von Hahn. 

Mr. Flood. You are the interpreter in what language? 

Mr. von Hahn. In the German language. 

Chairman Madden. Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almighty, 
that you will, according to the best of your knowledge and ability, 
truly interpret the testimony from English into Polish and Polish 
into English? 

Mr. Pucinski. I do. 

Chairman Madden. Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almiglity, 
that you will, according to the best of your knowledge and ability, 
truly interpret the testimony from English into German and from 
German into English ? 

Mr. VON Hahn. I do. 

Chairman Madden. The counsel will read a statement to the witness. 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to read the whole state- 
ment through and then have both interpreters repeat it in Polish and 
German. 

Chairman Madden. Proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF JOZEF CZAPSKI, PARIS, PRANCE (THROUGH 
INTERPRETER ROMAN PUCINSKI) 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your atten- 
tion to the fact that, under German law, you will not be liable for slan- 
der or libel, either in criminal or civil proceedings, for anything you 
may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the same 
time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of the 
United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any re- 
sponsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander proceedings 
which may arise as the result of your testimony. 

Mr. Fr.ooD. Let the record sliow that the witness understands the 
admonition. 

Chairman Madden. Tlie witness will be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear, by God the Ahniglity, tliat you will testify 
as to your own knowledge iuul tell the trutli, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Czapski. I do. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1231 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Czapski, will you state your full name, please? 

Mr. Czapski. Jozef Czapski. 

Mr. Mitchell. AVliere ^yere you born ? 

Mr. Czapski. In Prague, Czechoslovakia. 

Mr. ^IrrciiELL. What 3^ear ? 

Mr. Czapski. 1896. 

Mr. Mitchell. Where did you have your education ? 

Mr. Czapski. I studied at Peterburg and in Krakow. 
.Mr. Mitchell. What did you do upon the completion of your 
studies ? 

]Mr. Czapski. After the completion of my studies, I moved to Paris, 
where I did considerable painting; and up until 1939, I had occupied 
myself as an artist, as a painter, and I did considerable wxiting in 
Warsaw after. After 1931 it was in Warsaw. 

Mr, JSIitchell. Then your official position or profession was what? 

Mr. Czapski. I am an artist, a painter. 

JNIr. Mitchell. Where w^ere you on September 1, 1939 ? 

Mr. Czapski. I was in Warsaw, and as a Reserve officer, I was im- 
mediately called to active duty. 

Mr. DoNDERO. In what Army ? 

Mr. Czapski. Naturally, to the Polish Army. 

Chairman Maddex. Pardon me. 

I might say, on account of the large crowd in the courtroom, it is 
going to be necessary for the people to be as quiet as possible, the' 
people that are assembled here, and also for the witness and interpre- 
ters to speak as loudly as possible, and slowly. 

Mr. Mitchell. What was the exact date that you joined the Polish 
Army ? 

Mr. Czapski. I was called to active dutj^ on September 3 in Kra- 
kow, where my regiment, the Eighth Regiment, was stationed. 

Mr. Mitchell. INIr. Chairman, I would like to ask the witness if 
he wants to tell what happened to him from that date forward in his 
own story. 

Chairman Madden. Let me say to the witness that any procedure 
that makes it easier for him to reveal his knowledge with regard to 
the Katyn murders and facts leading up to his knowledge can h& 
followed by him. 

You can proceed in whatever way you desire. 

Mr. Czapski. I would prefer if you asked me the preliminary ques- 
tions and get me to Starobielsk as quickly as possible, where I can 
then begin my testimony as to my direct association and knowledge 
of this matter. 

I can now tell you how I was taken prisoner by the Russians. 

Mr. Mitchell. Please do. 

Mr. Czapski. As an officer of the Second Squadron of my regiment, 
I was with my regiment during our retreat on the heels of the German 
advance. On September 27, our units were surrounded by the armies 
of Russia and we were taken prisoner. 

Mr. IMitchell. What year was that? 

Mr. Czapski. September of 1939. 

I was among those officers who were sent to one of the three camps 
where officers who had been armed had been taken. These officers 
were interned at Starobielsk, Kozielsk, and Otashkov. 



1232 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Chairman Madden. I will have to admonish the photographers 
that these lights are interfering with the proceedings, so they will 
have to be turned out. 

Mr. IMiTCHELL. Proceed. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I can describe for you our conditions in Starobielsk. 

Mr. Mitchell. Very briefly, please. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. We remained at this camp until April 5, when the 
evacuation of the camp began, and the evacuation lasted from Ai)ril 
5 to May 12 of 1940. There were approximately 4,000 of us in this 
camp. There were 3,920 during the period of the evacuation. 

There were amongst us people of all ranks and all units, starting 
with the rank of general, and there were several generals there. There 
were several hundred doctors, there were a few professors of the 
universities, there were many priests. 

Among others evacuated before us was Father Alexandrowicz, the 
superintendent of the Protestant Church in Poland, the Eeverend 
Potocki, and also the rabbi of the Polish Arm.y, Rabbi Steinberg; 
several outstanding intellectuals, and a very large number of youths. 
Their only crime was that they were defending Poland against the 
aggression of Hitler. When the evacuation began, we were removed 
from the camp in groups numbering from 60 to 250 at each move. 

Mr. Mitchell. How many were in the group that left with you? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. In my group there were only 16, but I will cover 
that later. 

Mr. Mitchell. On what date did you leave ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. The 12th of May. 

Mr. Mitchell. What year? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. 1940. 

During this evacuation, a select group of 63 people was evacuated 
on the 25th of April. During this evacuation, the commanding officer 
of the camp, Berezkov, and another man, Kirszyn, assured us that 
we were being sent back to our homeland, to our own country, irrespec- 
tive of by whom that country was being occupied, the Russians or 
the Germans. 

At the same time, they were spreading rumors, however, that they 
were sending us to France, where we would form a special unit which 
would fight against Hitler. 

After the 25th of April, when this select group had been evacuated, 
only a few more groups were evacuated. Included in those few re- 
maining groups was my group of 16, which left on the 12th of May. 
We were first sent to Pavlishchev Bor, in the province of Smolensk, 
There we met the select and special group which had been evacuated 
from our camp on the 25th of April. Likewise, we also met there 
officers from the camps of Ostashkov and Kozielsk, numbering in all, 
approximately 400. 

Mr. Mitchell. Where was that? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. That was in Pavlishchev Bor, in Smolensk. 

After a couple of weeks, we were all sent to the camp of Griazovec, 
near Wologda. We at that time reasoned that all of our oflicei-s 
had been scattered among various camps in a similar manner. The 
uncertainty about the rest of our officers began that summer when 
we began receiving letters from relatives inquiring about them, from 
Poland. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1233 

Mr. Mitchell. How long were 5^011 at the camp of Griazovec ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I remained at Griazovec until the end of August 1941. 

Mr. IMiTCHELL. You are arrived at Griazovec what date ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Either at the very end of June or the early part of 
July 1940. 

Mr. Mitchell. Proceed with the rest of your story. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. The alarm over our other fellow-officers grew from 
month to month. 

Mr. Flood. Just a minute. 

Before you begin to tell us about the search for the officers and the 
concern about the missing officers, I would like to know why you 
managed to survive, why you think the Russians kept you alive ; and 
did your brother officers at Griazovec talk about that same question? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I must answer your second question first. 

None of us, there wasn't a single one amongst us who at that time 
suspected these men had been murdered. We merely presumed that 
these men had been scattered in small groups such as ours in other 
camps and assigned probably to hard labor. 

Do 3^ou now want to ask your first question ? 

Mr. Flood. I want your opinion today, as far as you are concerned. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. In Griazovec there were interned people of all politi- 
cal beliefs, of all classes and not only but also members of minorities. 
It is my opinion that the decision to murder my fellow-officers was 
made in the Kremlin. This was during a period when there was great 
joy because of the close cooperation between Hitler and Stalin. It 
was their plan to first exterminate and execute these Polish officers, 
because for them it constituted a certain revenge, for these Poles con- 
stituted the elite of my country. But they did want to preseiTe a 
small group so that if a subsequent demand should ever be made, they 
could point to this group and say, "Here they are ; you do have these 
people." 

After the arrangement reached between Stalin and Sikorski, fol- 
lowing Germany's invasion of Russia, a decision was reached that a 
Polish Army would be formed on the Russian territory, which would 
fight against the armies of Hitler. 

]\Ir. Mitchell. This committee has already heard testimony about 
a place called the "Haven of Bliss." Do you know anything about 
that ? Answer yes, or no. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes. 

Mr. Mitchell. Tell the committee very briefly what you know about 
it. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I know only that about 20 officers had been taken 
there prior to the agreement reached between General Sikorski and 
Stalin. 

Mr. Mitchell. From which camp did those officers come ; Pavlish- 
chev Bor, or Griazovec? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. From Griazovec and I think also from Moscow. 

Mr. Mitchell. Proceed and tell us what you know. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I Imow tliat the purpose of taking these people there 
and organizing this camp was to attempt to convert them to form a 
Red Polish Army in Russia. 

Mr. Flood. Where was this villa? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Near Moscow. 



1234 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

From this group of approximately 20 officers, only a handful had 
agreed to this conversion. Among those who were converted was 
Berling, who subsequently became the commanding officer or com- 
mander in chief of the Red Polish Army in Russia at the time that 
General Anders' Polish forces were transferred from Russia. 

And here lies one very important detail, which I would like to relate. 

The chief of the NKVD, Beria, and his assistant, Merkulow, pro- 
posed to this particular group of officers, during the late fall of 1940, 
to prepare a plan for the formulation of a Polish Army in Russia 
which would fight against the armies of Hitler in case of a war against 
Hitler Germany, 

Mr. Mitchell. When did you say that was ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. That was the late fall of 1940. At that time, Berling, 
who was the proposed connnanding officer, said, "Very well ; but under 
the condition that all of the Polish officers Avill be recruited into this 
proposed Army." To that, Beria replied, "Naturally, all of them; 
the leftists and the rightists, all of them." 

To this, Berling replied : "Very well, we have the officers at Kozielsk, 
Starobielsk, and Ostashkov, and we have officers there of all units, so 
that we can form a complete army." 

At this time, Merkulov told Berling: "Oh, no, no, not those at 
Kozielsk and Starobielsk. With those w^e have made a grave mistake." 

Mr. Mitchell. How do you know that? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I learned of this conversation in Turkestan in 1942. 
I heard this from three different people who, at various moments and 
at different places, had repeated this conversation to me. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Mr. Chairman, I think at this point of the record 
It should be pointed out that this very same conversation, in those 
very same words, has been testified to before the committee, under 
oatii, by other witnesses to whom they were repeated on the very- 
same day they were uttered by Merkulow. 

Chairman Madden. Very well. 

Mr. Mitchell. That is about all vou know about the Haven of 
Bliss? 

Mr. CzApsKi. Yes, that is about all. 

Mr. Mitchell. You started to tell this committee, before I inter- 
rupted you, about the formation of the Sikorski-Stalin pact. Will 
3'ou continue, please? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I began tell you this so that you would understand 
that when we were released from this camp as a cadre which was to 
form the Polish Army, already at that time, we were very seriously 
concerned about the safety of our fellow officers and, at that time, 
we already had prepared a list of several thousand of those whose 
names we could remember. But, T want to stress here and emphasize 
that we had considei-ed the possibility that these men may have frozen 
to death, may have been starved to death, but at no time did we 
conceive of the possibility that these men may have been massacred. 

The second phase that I can testify to is when we began forming 
our army in the regions near the Volga. 

Mr. Flood. Before you start that second ])hase, T think you should 
know that the records of this hearing, or the hearings of this com- 
mittee already show that the protocol, a copy of the protocol signed 
by the Soviet and the London Polish Government has been entered 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1235 

as a document in these hearings, and that, among other things, that 
protocol provided that on the part of Soviet Eussia all prisoners — 
military, civil, or otherwise — held by the Eussians in Eussia, Poles, 
would be automatically freed, with the only exception listed being 
certain criminals. 

Do you understand that in English ? 

Mr. CzAPSKT, Yes. 

Mr. Flood. And having that in mind, the Poles now began to form 
their army, taking for granted the Poles would be released by the 
Eussians for that purpose. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. That is correct. 

Mr. Mitchell. Will you now proceed with , the story of your 
assignment ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes ; only mine. 

Mr. Mitchell. Then, the committee would like to know how you 
were appointed, why you were appointed, to whatever assignment you 
were appointed, and what time the appointment was made. 

Mr. CzAPSKT. The reason was very clear. At the very beginning, 
I was assigned as chief of an office of assistance and information for 
the first Polish division that was being mobilized near Totsk. All 
the soldiers and all the officers that had reported from the various 
camps to this division had to first go through my hands. 

Mr. Mitchell. Who appointed you to that job? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. General Tokaszewski. who was in charge of forming 
and mobilizing this particular division. 

Mr. Flood. Just a minute. 

For the purpose of today's hearing au-d to show some continuity, 
the record should show that at the time the rapproachment developed 
between the Soviet and the London Poles. Polish General Anders was 
a prisoner of the Eussians in the Lubianka Prison in Moscow, and 
the Chief of the London Polish Government. General Sikorski. being 
unable to locate the Chief of Staff, General Haller, designated General 
Anders as the new commander in chief of the Polish Army to be organ- 
ized in Eussia. The Eussians then released General Anders who pro- 
ceeded to form the Polish Army, as indicated so far, and the testimony 
of General Anders talven in London indicates that he designated the 
witness, Czapski, to head up this unit and that his appointment from 
the other general mentioiied was merely through the chain of 
command. 

Mr. Czapski. What I began testifying to before Mr. Flood's re- 
marks was that at the time that I was describing I was just a very 
smalh insignificant information officer of only one division,. and it is^ 
very important that I be permitted to make my point here. 

It was on the basis of the information that I obtained at that par- 
ticular time that I went to General Anders w-ith my information, and 
it was then that he appointed me in charge of the entire search for 
these men. When I was ordered by General Anders to organize a 
bureau to search for these men, I left Totsk and I proceeded To Buzu- 
luk and joined the General Staff of the Polish Army. 

Chairman jNLaddex. Tell the witness if he would like to have a 5- 
minute recess, Ave can have a recess now. 

Mr. Czapski. It is immaterial. 

Chairman Madden. Proceed. 



1236 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I transferred to Buzuluk either in October or No- 
l^eraber — end of October or possibly the beginning of November, and 
with a large staff, I prepared a lengthy list of names which, subse- 
quently, on the 4th of December, General Sikorski presented to Stalin. 

But, there is a second reason why I had been named to this par- 
ticular assignment by General Anders. 

Mr. Flood. Just a minute. 

Could that date of the meeting with Stalin have been December 3 ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. It is possible. It could have been the 3d or the 4th. 

Mr. DoNDERO. What year ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. 1941. 

The second reasoli was that I spoke Russian fluently. I had studied 
in Russia, and as early as 1919, 1 had made a search for Polish officers 
following the Bolshevik revolution. 

As a result, I left behind my staff, which continued compiling and 
improving the list of the missing officers, and I personally then went 
into the terrain of Russia. I began at Czkalow, because the chief of 
the Soviet camps, the chief of the Gulag, was stationed at Czkalow. 
I went there Avith a letter from General Anders in which it was stated 
that on orders of Stalin all of the Polish prisoners should be released. 

I was greeted, or received, by General Nasetkin. The General was 
sitting in front of a huge map of Russia on which were superimposed 
hundreds of stars and other marks indicating prison camps through- 
out Russia. Nasetkin received me somewhat cordially, because he 
was alarmed when I showed him the letter. 

Chairman Madden. How did you know that these hundreds of stars 
on this map represented prison camps throughout Russia? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I knew because while I was the information officer 
at Totsk, and from where I came, I had received thousands of i^eople 
who came from these very places — from Kolyma, from Kola, and from 
Komi which is in Soviet Russia near the Urals. 

Mr. Mitchell. Will you proceed, please? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. General Nasetkin had promised to give me the an- 
swers to my questions on the following day. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he say he needed that day's time to make 
telephone inquiries about these camps? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes ; that is correct. 

The follow^ing day, he received me very badly. It was obvious and 
ap]')arent that he had received instructions from Moscow and from 
Kuybishev that he had no permission to talk to me. 

Mr. Flood. Instead of asking a question, just for the record, the 
significance of Kuybishev was the fact that, because of the German 
advance, the Russian Government and the diplomatic corps had been 
moved to Kuybishev. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. That is correct. 

At the same time that I was getting this bad reception from Naset- 
kin, a general of theNKVD had contacted General Anders in Buzuluk 
and told him : "Czapski has no right to roam around the country. 
His dealings shall be confined to the central headquarters of the 
KKVD." 

Following my return to Buzuluk, General Anders immediately dis- 
patched me to the general headquarters of the NKYD. I went to 
Kuybishev, but I did not remain there very long because all traces 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1237 

led to Moscow. In Moscow, I attempted to talk either to Beria or to 
Merkulow. 

Mr. JMiTCHELL, Whom did you talk to ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I was received neither by Beria nor Merkulow, but I 
did succeed in talking to one of Merkulow's most trusted and top 
assistants. General Rajchmann. 

Mr. MrrcHELL. Wlien did you see him, approximately ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. It was either at the beginning of February or the 
end of January 1942. 

I beg your pardon. It was the 2d of April 1942. 

Mr. Machrowitz. Wasn't it on February 3, 1942, witness? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. No, it was the 2d of February, 1942. 

Mr. Mitchell. What transpired during your conversation with 
Rajchmann ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Rajchmann greeted me or received me, as the Russians 
always do, with another silent witness there. I handed him a memo- 
randum which I now hold in my hand. It is the same memorandum. 

Mr. JMiTCHELL. Do you have any objections to permitting the com- 
mittee to see that, having it photostated, and returned to you ? 

Chairman Madden. Just a minute. 

We'll take a recess for a few minutes now if the cameramen that 
came late desire to take pictures. 

(Whereupon, a recess was taken.) 

(After recess.) 

Chairman Maddex. The committee will come to order. Proceed. 

]Mr. Flood. Now, Mr. Czapski, you have handed us what purports 
to be a memorandum handed by you to General Rajchmann; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes; that is correct, Mr. Flood. 

Mr. Flood. Will you have the stenographer mark this as exhibit 
No. 1 ? 

(The document referred to was marked as "Exhibit No. 1, Frank- 
furt" and was returned to the witness at his request.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit No. 1 and ask you whether or 
not this is the memorandum to which you have just referred. 

Mr. Czapski. Yes, Mr. Flood, this is the original memorandum 
that I had handed him. 

Mr. Flood. Do I understand that you will have a photostatic copy 
of this prepared for later submission to the committee ? 

Mr. Czapski. That is correct. 

Mr. Flood. We will have the photostatic copy then marked for the 
permanent record as exhibit 1-A, at which time the original docu- 
ment, exhibit 1, can be returned to the witness. 

(Exhibit No. 1-A, photostatic copy of exhibit 1, is identical with 
exhibit 50-A already appearing in pt. 4, London hearings, p. 944, and 
will not be reprinted at this point.) 

Mr. Flood (continuing). Now, in what language is that document, 
exhibit 1, now written? 

Mr. Czapski. In Russian. 

Mr. Flood. Will you also have provided a translation from Rus- 
sian into English to accompany the photostat of exhibit No. 1 ? 

Mr. Czapski. If you will help me, of course I will. 



1238 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. And that translation will be marked as "Exhibit 1-B." 
(Exhibit 1-B, English translation of Exhibit 1, is shown below. 

[Translation from Russian of Exhibit 1] 

[On the top a pencil mark:] Memorandum submitted in Moscow to the Gen. 
Kaichmann in Lublianka [seat of N. K. V. D.] on April 2, 1942, by Capt. Czapski. 

Memorandum CoNCERNiNa the Polish Prisoners of War From Starobel'sk, 
Kozel'sk and Ostashkov, Who Did Not Return 

The prisoners of war, who from 1939 until April 1940, were in Starobel'sk, 
Kozel'sk and Ostaslikov (numbei-ing more than lij.OdO, of whom 8,700 were com- 
missioned officers) did not return from exile, and the place of their confinement is 
unknown to us ; an exception are 400-500 men, that is approximately three percent 
of the total number of prisoners of war, who were released in 1941, after one year's 
imprisonment in Griasovets near Vologda or in other prisons. 

Camp in StarobeVslc No. 1 

Shipments of prisoners of war used to arrive in Starobel'sk camp from 30 Sep- 
tember to 1 November 1939 and when the clearing of the inmates of the camp 
began, the number of the Polish Prisoners was 3,920 men including generals and 
colonels who were kept separately. There were also several scores of civilians, 
about 30 cadet-ofiicers (podkhorunzhii) and ensigns (khorunzhii). All others 
were commissioned ofiicers, of whom at least 50 percent were of the regular army, 
8 generals, more than 100 colonels and lieutenant-colonels, about 250 majors, ap- 
proximately 2500 first and second lieutenants ol all branches of the service and 
auxiliary services. Among them there were 380 doctors, several professors of in- 
stitutions of higher learning, etc. 

Kozel'sk No. 1 and Ostashkov were camps for prisoners of war, both formed 
and cleared approximately at the same time. 

The camp in Kozel'sk 

On the day when the clearing of the camp began — on April 3rd, 1940 — the 
camp had approximately 5,000 prisoners, among them 4,500 commissioned oificers 
of all ranks and of all branches of the service. 

Camp in Ostushkov 

On the day when the clearing began — on April G, 1940 — this camp contained 
6,750 men, among them 380 commissioned officers. 

The clearing of the Camp Ui StarohcVsk 

On April 5, 1940, the first group, consisting of 195 men, was sent from Starobel'sk 
Colonel Berezhkov the Soviet commandant, and commissar Kirshin official assured 
the prisoners of war, that they are being sent to the distribution center, from 
where they will be sent to the places of their residence, to Pohmd, both to the 
German or the Soviet part.^ Up to April 26, inclusive, groups consisting of from 
65 to 240 men were shipped. 

On April 25, after the customary announcement concerning the sending of more 
than 100 men, a special list of 63 men was read, to whom the order was given to 
stand separately during the departure to the station. 

After April 26 there was an interruption in the clearing of the camps until May 
2, when 200 men were sent. After that the rest of the prisoners were sent witli 
small groups on the 8th, 11th, and 18th of INIay. The group, which included me, 
among others, was sent to Pavlislichev Bor (Smolensky region), where we met 
the whole "special group" of 63 men, who were sent on April 25. Thus we num- 
bered 79, almost all being commissioned oificers from Starobel'sk, who were, 
after one year, released from Griazovecky camp. Adding to this numlier 7 
more connnissioned ottieers, who were shipped individually during the winter of 
1939-40 from Starobel'sk, the total number of those commissioned olficeis who 
were released will make S6 out of 3920 men, i. e., slightly more than 2 percent 
of the total number of prisoners in Starobel'sk. 



' According to tlip numcrons letters recoivod in Poland in tho winter of lf>40-41. we 
know for sure that nobody was then sent from Starobel'sk, Kozel'sk, and Ostashkov back 
to Poland. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1239 

Tfic clearing of the camps of KozeVsk and Ostashkov 

It proceeded in like manner. In Pavlislicliev Bor we found about 200 com- 
missioned officers from Kozel'slv and about 120 men from Ostaslikov. The pro- 
portion between the number of people brought to Pavlishchev Bor from these 
camps and the number of i>eople confined there differed slightly from the propor- 
tion relating to Starobel'sk. 

The camp in Griazovets 

After a month's stay in Pavlishchev Bor the whole of the camp, approximately 
400 people, was shipped to Griazovets near Vologda, where we remained until the 
day of [our] release. About 1,250 commissioned officers and enlisted men also 
arrived there, they were previously interned in Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia 
and stayed as internees (not as prisoners of war) in Kozel'sk No. 2 from the fall 
of 1940 till the summer of 1041. 

The camp in Griazovets was known to us as the only PW camp consisting most- 
ly of commissioned officers of the Polish Army, which existed in the U.S.S.R. from 
J\me 1940 to September 1941, and the population of which, after their release, 
almost in full number, joined the Polish Army in the U.S.S.R. 

Almost 6 months had passed since the "amnesty" to all Polish PW's and in- 
ternees was proclaimed on August 12, 1941. Polish commissioned officers and en- 
listed men, released from continement to which they were subjected when trying 
to cross the border after September 1939 or those arrested at places of their resi- 
dence, were arriving, in groups or individually, to jo'in the Polish Army. But 
despite the amnesty, in spite of the explicit promise given by the President of the 
Sovnarkom (Soviet of People's Commissars) Stalin himself, in Novemlier 1941, 
to our envoy Kot that PW's be returned to us, despite of a strict order to locate 
and liberate the PW's from Starobel'sk, Kozel'sk, and Ostashkov given by Stalin 
on December 4, 1941, in the presence of the Commanding General of the Polish 
Army Sikorski and General Anders, in spite of all this not a single prisoner of 
war appeared from Starobel'sk, Kozel'sk and Ostashkov (except the group from 
Griazovets mentioned before and a few scores of persons who were separately 
interned and liberated as early as in September). 

No appeal for help from the PW's interned in the camps mentioned above has 
ever reached us. 

In spite of the interrogation of thousands of persons returning from all the 
camps and prisons of the U. S. S. R. we shall have not obtained any reliable in- 
formation on their [the prisoners, in Starobel'sk] whereabouts, except for the 
following rumors coming from second-hand sources : that from 6 to 12 thousands 
commissioned and noncommissioned officers were sent to Kolyma via Bukhta 
Nachodka in 1940 ; 

That more than 5,000 commissioned officers were collected in the mines of the 
Frants lijsif Islands; that there were deportations to Novaia Zemlia, Kamchatka, 
and Chukotka ; that in the summer of 1941, 630 commissioned officers, PW's from 
Kozel'sk, were working 180 kilometers from Pestraia- Drcsva ; that 150 commis- 
sioned officers, clad in their uniforms, were seen north from the river tios'va 
near Gar ; that some Polish commissioned officers, prisoners of war, were trans- 
ported on huge towed barges (1,700-2,000 men to a barge) to Severvye Ostrova 
and that three such barges sank in Barents sea. 

None of this information was confirmed sufficiently, although the information 
on Severnye Ostrova and KoUima seems to be the most probable. 

We know that every prisoner of war was registered, and that the "case records" 
of all us, with the numerous records on interrogations together with the docu- 
ments, identified and checked photographs, were kept in special files. We know 
how carefully, and exactly this work of the NKVD was conducted, so that none 
of us, [former] prisoners of war, can believe for a second that the whereabouts of 
15,(X)0 PW's of which more than 8,000 are commissioned officers, could be un- 
known to the higher authorities of the NKVD. The solemn promise of the 
Predsoriuirkom Stalin himself and his strict order to ascertain the fate of the 
former Polish prisoners of war permit us to hope that at least we could know 
where our brothers in arms are and, if they have perished, how and when it 
happened. 

Xttmber of commissioned officers of the Polish Army, -former prisoners of war, 
who did not return 
On April 5, 1940, the day of the beginning of the clearance of the camp of in- 
mates in StarobeVsk, the total number of commissioned officers, prisoners of war, 

93744— 52— pt. 5 2 



J^240 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

with the oxcoption of some civilians and approximately 30 ensigns and cadet- 

""^^he'numbef of prisoners of war in KozeVsk on April 6, 1940, the day when 
clearing o? the camp of inmates began, amounted to 5,000, among them commxs- 

^%"he nSor TpS^r'stfwar in Ostasmov on April G, 1940. the day when the 
clearfn" of the camp of inmates started, was 6,570; the commissioned officers 
constitfited among them 380. Total 8,800 commissioned officers. 

By deducting several scores of civilians from Starobel'sk the number of com- 
missioned oflBcers constitutes 8,700. . f „„ fr.r.ry> 

Some 300 commissioned officers from Griasorets, former prisoners of war from 
StarreAk, Kozel'sk, and Ostashkov, have returned to the Polish Army and 
furthermore several scores were released from prisons, into which they were sent 
from the abo^e-mentioned camps, and returned, which makes the total number of 
returned commissioned officers not more than 400. -a ^m^cr.^ 

ronseauentlv the following figure shows the number of commissioned officers 
who "irnotreumi from Starobel'sk, Kozel'sk, and Ostashkov camps-S,300 men. 

All officers of the Polish Army, the number of which as of January 1, 1940, 
amounted to approximately 2,300 i^ersons, were formerly confined or interned in 
Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, but they were not prisoners of war (with the 
excention of the above-mentioned 400 persons). , , , , , ^ ^^^ 

Being unable to define with similar precision the grand total number of all 
those who did not return, we give solely the figures of the prisoners of war fiom 
Kozerrk Starobel'sk, Ostashkov, the majority of which are officers, because 
we were'able to determine their number with relative precision. 

Because we were now expanding, by virtue of the decision of the Chairman of 
the Coimcil of People's Commissars Stalin and of General Si^orski, oair army n 
the south of the U. S. S. R., a continuously growing need is felt for these officers 
who dSappeaml ; we are losing in them the best military experts, the best com- 

"^No'^splc'iareTplanation is required to realize the extent to which tbe disappear- 
ance of many a thousand of brothers-iu-arms obstructs the work of the creat on 
fn our a^my of confidence in the Soviet Union, which confidence is so much needed 
foi a sound development of mutual relations between the two allied armies m 
their struggle against the common sworn enemy. 

Commissioner for the Affairs of 
Former Prisoners of War in the USSR 
Captain of the Cavalry Jozef Czapski 
Moscow, February 2, 1942. 

Mr. Czapski. I would like at this time to say, in a few words, what 
is in this memorandum. .i , ^ <? „^^i 

Mr Flood. You can proceed to testify from the best of your recol- 
lection as to what the memorandum contains, and refer to it, it neces- 
sary, to refresh your memory. . ^ a^ 
Mr Czapski. I began this memorandum with an accurate and de- 
tailed account of how these officers were transferred to these various 
camps, including the numbers. Then I cite all of the promises made 
bv Stalin in the presence of Molotov that all of these people are 
ordered to be released. Then I proceed to explain that 1 oles are 
arriving to us from all over Kussia and that among them there isn t 
a single member nor a single name of any of these three camps, i 
then proceed to name all of the islands and far-away camps where 
there are rumors that these officers may be interned. I want to empha- 
size here that at that particular time I still believed that these men 
would be found. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. And that they were alive. 

Mr. Czapski. Yes; and T believed that they were alive, or 1 hoped 

tluit they were alive. . \^ r ^ 

And then I further state in my memorandum that 1 cannot believe 

that the Russians do not know the whereabouts or the fate of these 

soldiers. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1241 

I further stated that I know very well liov>^ carefully the NKVD 
Tecords the movements of every prisoner. 

I then stated in the memorandum that the solemn promises of Stalin 
that these men would be released authorizes me to inquire of them to 
tell me at least whether or not these men are still alive. 

General Rajchmann read my memorandum very calmly. He said 
that he knows nothing about this matter, although I have heard from 
other sources that he was for a certain time in charge of the entire 
Polish section. 

Mr. Flood. Just a minute. What was the date of that memo- 
randum? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. The 2d of April 1942. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Just a minute; the 2d of April, or the 2d of 
February? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I have noted here on my copy of the original that it 
is the 2d of April. It is possible that it was the 2d of February. 

Mr. Mitchell. What, exactly, have you got at the top of that 
memorandum ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I must make a correction. In the typewritten state- 
ment, typewritten in Moscow, the date is given as the 2d of February. 
My own notation at the top is incorrectly stated, in my own hand- 
writing. 

Mr. PuciNSKi. The witness, Mr. Chairman, is indicating in his copy 
here on the last page, under the signature, as the typewritten date, 
^'February 2d," and a little notation on the face 'jf the memorandum, 
written by hand, is the date "April 2d." 

Mr. Machrowicz. Just one question, and I would like to have your 
answer on the record. Do you now wish to correct your statement so 
that it will read that this conversation you had with General Rajch- 
mann and the date of handing him the memorandum is February 2d, 
1942— is that correct? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes, I want that very much. 

Mr. Flood. Now that we have established the date, I want to ask 
you this. In all of your conversations with any Russians of any 
category any place during your search thus far, had anybody told 
you that the Polish missing officers must be German prisoners, or 
prisoners of the Germans ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Never. Not once had I been told anything of that 
sort. And here I would like to add that it was common knowledge 
that the Russians had evacuated the prisoners when the Germans were 
advancing along all points sooner than they even evacuated the 
Russian families. For how these evacuations were conducted I sug- 
gest that you read a chapter in my book. Inhuman Land, wliich has 
the original stenographic record of this entire procedure of 
evacuation. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Mr. Czapski, in that memorandum that you 
handed to General Rajchmann, did you specifically mention the fact 
that there were about 15,000 prisoners in Kozielsk, Starobielsk, and 
Ostashkov, and that none of them had been heard from ? 

Mr. Czapski. I must reply to this very expressly. There were 
15,000 in all. There were officers; there was police; and there were 
also soldiers. Of the officers in these three camps, there were 8,700. 



1242 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did General Rajchinann tell you whethei- he 
would furnish you with an answer to the memorandum? 

Mr. CzAi'SKi. Yes. General llajchmann assured me that he would 
give me a I'eply. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you receive the reply? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I waited several days in Moscow, and suddenly one 
eveninf!; — that is, at midniji;ht — I was awakened by the telephone. 
That was General Rajchmann calling me personally, who, in a very 
sympathetic manner, informed me that he would not see me again and 
that he had no knowledge in this matter, and he advised me to return to 
Kuybishev to see Vishinsky, since all the records on this matter were 
with Vishinsky at Kuybishev. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Just a minute. Was Vishinsky then Conunissar 
of Foreign Affairs? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. He was the Vice Minister. 

I told Rajchmann in reply that Ambassador Kot had talked to 
Vishinsky on eight diiferent occasions in this matter and that Vishin- 
sky's answer always was that he had no knowledge in this matter. 

Mr. Flood. Just a minute. The record should show that Ambas- 
sador Kot is the Ambassador from the London-Polish Government to 
the Soviet, and at this time was with the Diplomatic Corps at Guybi- 
shev. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did that conversation end your seeking for infor- 
mation from the Russian authorities on the fate of these Polish offi- 
cers ? 

Mr. CzApsKi, Actually, yes. There were subsequent conversations. 
There was one with Ehrenburg, but the results of this conversation 
had contributed nothing new. 

Mr. Machrowicz. By "Ehrenburg", you mean Ilya Ehrenburg, is 
that correct ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who vras Ilya Ehrenburg? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. He was one of two of the most noted Russian writei'S 
at the time, and he had received a special Stalin prize (100,000 rubles) 
from Stalin for his book entitled "The Collapse of Paris." 

Mr. Mitchell. One question. When did you cease to be the head of 
this chief investigative unit for the locating of the missing Polish of- 
ficers in Russia? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. After my return to the Polish forces, which was either 
in April — it was in April of 1942. 

Mr. Mitchell. Wliy ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. First of all, because I ceased believing that these men 
were alive. I base this conclusion of mine on my discussion and 
conversation with Hajchmann. Secondl}^ I had learned in Turkistan 
at this time of the discussions of Merkulow in the Villa of Bliss. 

Mr. Machroavicz. Now, you are referring to the conversation in 
which McM'kulow said or admitted that the Russians made a great 
mistake with these Polish officers? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. FLot)D. Now, Mr. Czapski, I take for granted that this about 
terminated your general search — not that you ended it ; I know that 
3^ou still continued in a general way from then on. 

Mr. PiTciNSKi. The witness indicated, Mr. Flood, that he wants to 
reply to (hat. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1243 

Mr. CzAPSKi. Officiall}' my work was finished, and, naturally, I 
continued my interest in this search, and I first wrote the report which 
^^■as sent to America and translated into English, called "The Death 
at Katyn." 

Mr. Flood. Now, Mr. Czapski, where were j^ou when the German 
announcement of Katyn was made in 1943? 

Mr. Czapski. I was at that time with the Polish Army in Iraq, as 
the Chief of the Propaganda Agency of the Polish Army. 

Mr. Flood. What was your reaction, and what was the reaction of 
your fellow Poles, when you heard the German announcement about 
Katyn ? 

]Mr. Czapski. Naturally, our reaction was that this was done by the 
Russians. I do not remember that there was any one amongst us who 
doubted that anyone but the Russians could have done this. 

Mr. PuciNSKi. The witness is questioning the German translation 
of his original answer and states here : 

Mr. Czapski. We were fully aware that this could have been an 
act of the Germans because we knew of the German atrocities, but we 
knew that in this case this was done by the Russians because we were 
in Russia and we saw how the Russians had been evacuating these 
prisoners, and we knew that the Russians did not leave any prisoners 
to fall into the hands of the Germans. 

Mr. Maciirow^cz. Now, Mr. Czapski, in the course of your many 
months of investigation in this matter, did you find any instances 
where the families of the officers at these three camps which you men- 
tioned received letters from these people after April or May 1940 ? 

Mr. Czapski. Never; never. AVe had heard, from time to time, 
rumors that such letters existed, and we had intensely searched for 
these letters, and Ave had found that those letters had never actually 
existed. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, in April or May 1940, this territory in 
which these camps were located was in whose hands, German or 
Russian ? 

Mr. Czapski. The entire territory was in the hands of the Russians 
and was separated by hundreds of miles from the German territory, 
and it wasn't until the summer, or a year later, in the summer of 
1941, that the Germans first arrived there. 

Mr. DoxDERO. Now, Mr. Czapski, have you ever seen or heard of 
any of these officers and soldiers since April or May 1940 ? 

Mr. Czapski. I have neither seen nor heard of these officers since 
April of 1940, and I would like to point out here that since my re- 
lease from Griazovec the search for these men has been an obsession 
with me. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Will you state whether you see any similarity in 
the run-around which you and other Polish officials got from the 
Russians concerning Polish prisoners of war — do you see any simi- 
larity in the run-around which they got to the run-around which the 
United Nations are getting in Korea in dealing on the same subject? 

Mr. Czapski. I have not studied very carefully the situation in 
Korea, but it seems to me that if a massacre like this could have been 
perpetrated in Katyn it could also be repeated elsewhere. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Czapski, let me say this on behalf of the 
committee. You have testified here today under rather difficult cir- 



1244 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

cumstances by reason of using two interpreters in recording your 
testimony. You have reviewed the history of your experiences from 
back in 1939 on. AVould you, from all these experiences, be in a posi- 
tion to say who, what government, is responsible for the massacre at 
Katyn, in your opinion? 

Now briefly, briefly. 

Mr. CzArsKi. First of all, there is no doubt in my mind that these 
men were murdered by the Soviets. 

Chairman Madden. I want to thank you for your testimony. 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I must state my second point. 

Chairman Madden. Very well. 

Mr. CzAPSKi, Secondly, we keep forgetting that Russia is the most 
centralized country in the world whenever it comes to issuing orders 
or directives or policy. Therefore, the full responsibility for this 
crime does not rest with some NKVD sadist; the full responsibility 
rests with Beria and Stalin. 

Chairman Madden. Have you anything further you would want 
to say before your testimony stops ? 

Mr. CzAPSKi. I belive not, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Madden. I want to thank you for testifying here today. 

Now, on account of the lateness of the hour, w-e will not have a 
recess but we will proceed with the next witness, who will not take 
such a long period of time. 

Mr. Flood. Mr. Chairman, this committee communicated its re- 
quest for information to both the Soviet and the Warsaw Polish Gov- 
ernments and, as well, to the Federated Republic of Germany. Since 
we are now about to begin with the first German witness. I have 
here the invitation and the reply of the Federal Republic of Germany 
to the committee in connection with their request for information 
and cooperation, and at this time I will insert them into the record. 
They have already been released publicly, and there is no particular 
reason for taking time to go into them further at this time. 

Will you have the stenographer mark the letter of invitation as 
exhibit 2? 

(The document referred to was marked "Frankfurt, Exhibit 2.") 

IIoTTSK OF Representatives, 
Select Committee To Investigate the Katyn Forest Massacre, 

Washmyion, D. C, March J8. 1952. 

Exhibit 2 

Letter of Invitation From Katyn Committee 

The Honorable Charge d'affaires of the Federai, Republic of Germany. 

My Dear Mr. Ciiargi-: d'affaires : Tho House of Ileprosentativos of the United 
States of America on Sei)temhor 18, li);")!, unanimously passed House Resolution 
390. A copy of this resolution is nttafhed for your information. 

This resolution authorizes and directs a committee of Congress to conduct a 
full and comploto investigation and study of the facts, evidence, and extenuating 
circumstances both before and after the massacre of thousands of Polish officers 
buried in a mnss grave in tlie Katyn Forest on the banks of the Dnieper in 
the vicinity of Smolensk, IT. S. S. K. 

This official committee of the United States Congress respectfully invites the 
Government of the Federal Republic of Germany to submit any evidence, docu- 
ments, and witnesses it may desire on or before ]May 1. 19r(2, pertaining to the 
Katyn Forest Massacre. The committee will ]>e in Europe during the month 
of April to hear and consider any testimony which may he available. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1245 

These hearings and the taking of testimony from witnesses are being con- 
ducted in accordance with the rules and regulations of the House of Repre- 
sentatives of the United States of America. 
Very truly yours, 

Ray J. Madden, 
Chairman, Select Committee To Conduct an Investigation and Study of 
the Facts, Evidence, and Circumstances of the Katyn Forest Massacre. 

Mr. Flood (continuing) . Mr. Chairman, I show you exhibit No. 2-B 
and ask you whether or not this communication has been in your cus- 
tody until it was presented to the committee today as the reply from 
the German Federal Republic to you. 

Chairman Madden. It has, and we will put that in evidence as 
exhibit 2-B, together with exhibit 2-A, transmittal letter of the De- 
partment of State. 

(Exhibit 2-A and 2-B is shown as follows :) 

Exhibit 2-A 

Transmittal Letter of Department of State Covering German Diplomatic 
Mission Reply to Committee 

Department of State. 
Washington, March 31, 1952. 

The Honorable Ray J. Madden, 

Chairman, Select Committee to Investigate the Katyn Forest Massacre, 
House of Representatives. 
My Dear Mr. Chairman : At the request of the Charge d'Affaires of the Fed- 
eral Republic of Germany, I am transmitting a letter dated March 31, 1952, ad- 
dressed to you by the Charge d'Affaires in response to your letter of IMarch IS, 
1952. 

Sincerely yours, 

Jack K. McFall, 
Assistant Secretary 
(For the Secretary of State). 



Exhibit 2-B 

Reply to Committee Invitation by Diplomatic Mission of the 
Federal Republic of Germany 

Diplomatic Mission of the 
Federal Republic of Germany. 
Washington, D. C, March 31st, 1952. 

The Honorable Ray J. Madden, 

Chairman, Select Committee to Conduct an Investigation and Study of th^e 
Facts, Evidence and Circumstances of the Katyn Forest Massacre. 

My Dear Mr. Madden : I have the honor to acknowledge receipt of your letter of 
March 18, 1952, in which you inform me that the House of Representatives of 
the United States of America on September 18, 1951, unanimously passed House 
Resolution 390, which authorizes and directs a committee of Congress to conduct 
a full and complete investigation and study of the facts, evidence, and extenuat- 
ing circumstances both before and after the massacre of thousands of Polish 
officers buried in a mass grave in the Katyn Forest on the banks of the Dnieper 
in the vicinity of Smolensk, U. S. S. R. 

I have transmitted to my Government the committee's invitation to submit any 
evidence, documents, and witnesses it may desire on or before May 1, 1952, per- 
taining to the Katyn Forest Massacre. In reply to that invitation I have been 
instructed to inform you that the Government of the Federal Republic of Ger- 
many will be mo,st willing to give any support and assistance within its power to 
contribute to the committee's investigation. As to the evidence and documents 
pertaining to the Katyn Forest Massacre which were collected during the war, I 
may point out that they will not be available as they were taken over by occu- 
pation authorities after the war came to an end. 



1246 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

I should therefore like to suggest that a meeting he held between a representa- 
tive of your committee and this mission to discuss the best means and ways for 
cooperation in this matter. 
Very truly yours, 

Heinbich L. Kkekeler. 

Cliairman Maddex. Werner Steplian. 

Mr. Stephan, would you give your full name, please? 

TESTIMONY OF WERNER STEPHAN (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, 
DR. MARGA MEIER) 

Mr. Stephan. Werner. 

Chairman Madden. Would you spell that for the record? 

Mr. Stephan. W-e-r-n-e-r, Stephan, S-t-e-p-h-a-n. 

Chairman Madden. I understand you have no objection to being 
photographed. 

Mr. Stephan. No. 

Mr. Flood. Has the interpreter been sworn? 

Dr. Meier. No. 

Mr. Flood. You will be sworn, please. 

Chaiiinan ]\Iadden. Do you solemnly swear that you will interpret 
the testimony to be given by the witness correctly from German to 
English and from English to German? 

Dr. Meier. I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name, young lady ? 

Dr. Meier. Dr. Marga Meier. 

Chairman INIadden. Now, Mr. Stephan, the counsel will read the 
statement before you are sworn. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable for 
slander or libel either in criminal or in civil proceedings for anything 
you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the 
same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government 
of the United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes 
any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander 
proceedings which may arise as the result of yoiu" testimony. 

Dr. Meier. The witness indicated that he understood it. 

Mr. Flood. Now, will you stand and be sworn, please. 

Chairman Madden. Kaise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear, in the testimony about to be given, that you 
will tell the truth, the Avliole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Stephan. I swear it. so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your fidl name? 

Mr. S'raPiiAN. Werner Stephan. 

Mr. Flood. Were you in any way identified with the former German 
Government in any official capacity ? 

ISIr. Stephan. Yes, I was ^Ministerialrat; that is, INIinisterial Coun- 
cilor in the Ministry of Propaganda. 

Mr. Flood. Who was the chief in the Ministry of Propaganda under 
whom you served ? 

Mr. S'raPHAN. Tliat was Dr. Goebbels. 

Mr. Dondero. What was that answer? 

Mr. Stephan. Dr. Goebbels. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1247 

Mr. F1.00D. Mr. Stephan, I direct your attention to the year of 1943 
and ask you ■whether or not you were identified witli the former Ger- 
man Government in that year in the capacity you have just indicated. 

Mr. Stephan. Yes. At that time I had been working for 14 years 
for the President of the Reich Government. 

Mr. Flood. What was your former business occupation ? 

Mr. Stephan. I was a journalist. 

Mr. Flood. Now I direct your attention to the matter of the Katyn 
massacre and ask you how that matter first was brought to your at- 
tention in your official capacity. 

Mr. Stephan. During the first days of April 1943, a journalist 
whom I had known for a very long time came to see me. At that time 
he was stationed near Smolensk as a soldier, and he came to see me 
in order to tell me something of great inlportance, 

Mr. Mitchell. What was his name ? 

Mr. Stephan. His name was Hans Meyer. 

Mr. Flood. "^Vliat was his rank and what unit was he connected 
with in the Germany Army at that time, and where was it located ? 

Mv. Stephan. JSIeyer had been working for several years as a de- 
partment chief with the information center and had then been drafted 
to a press unit near Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat was his business before he entered the armed 
forces, if j^ou know? 

Mr. Stephan. He was a journalist, and he belonged to the Deutsche 
Nachtrichten Bureau, which was the official German news agency. 

Mr. Flood. All right. Tell us what happened, how you became 
acquainted with the Katyn matter, and wh^It was Meyer's connection 
with it, so far as you were concerned. 

Mr. Stephan. Meyer told me that he had to come to Berlin because 
in the area where he was stationed strange and, as it seemed to him, 
important things were happening. There had been rumors in this 
area spread by the Russian population that mass graves of Polish 
officers were there. Finally higher military commands had gotten 
knowledge of these rumors, and exhumations had been started. Now, 
it seemed to him that the whole affair was not started correctly and 
that the military commands were not aware of the importance of the 
whole matter. He was afraid that this was a political matter and 
that the military commands were not fully aware of the importance 
of this matter, and if there were exhumations carried out at all they 
had to be taken very seriously and records had to be taken and tran- 
scripts made and, if possible or necessarj^, international agencies or 
bodies would have to be formed. 

Approximately the following: You know yourself, military com- 
mands gi'ab everything and want to do everything, and they treat 
everything as a very secret matter and don't want to have anyone 
interfere; but really and actually, they don't understand anything 
about it. That is why Meyer had come to Berlin, because he thought 
that the political agencies had to be interested because the military 
commands did not begin it correctly. 

Mr. Flood. What you mean is that Mr. Meyer was afraid of the 
Army, that he was afraid of the propaganda value of the discovery ; 
was he not? 

Mr. Stephan. Yes. Not exactly the propaganda value, but the 
political value. 



1248 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. You make a distinction between the two things, do you ? 

Mr, Stepiian, Yes. Propaganda may be the utilization which need 
not necessarily be correct, whereas political evaluation, I think, is a 
different thing. 

Mr. Flood. What agency were you working for ? 

Mr. Stephan. With the press department. 

Mr. Flood. Why did Meyer come to you ? 

Mr. Stephan. Because I was an old acquaintance of his. 

Mr. Flood. An old friend ? 

Mr. Stephan. Maybe "friend" is saying too much; but we knew 
each other for quite some time, 

Mr. Flood. What did he ask you to do ? 

Mr, Stephan. He asked me to get him in contact with the high 
political agency, and I think that he was thinking in particular of 
Dr. Goebbels. 

Mr. Flood. Did he ask especially about Dr. Goebbels ? 

Mr. Stephan. He did also ask for Dr. Dietrich, who was at that 
time press chief of the Reich Government. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat did you do ? 

Mr. Stephan. Dietrich was at that time in the Fiiehrer head- 
quarters and therefore could not be reached. So I went to Goebbels' 
office and told them roughly what had happened. I told them in 
particular that Meyer asked to be received by Goebbels. 

Mr. Flood. What arrangements did you make ? 

Mr. Stephan. I was first asked whether this man was really serious, 
because what I had told .them briefly seemed rather sensational and, 
on first sight, not very credible. I told them that Meyer was a serious 
and reliable man and a good and well-proved journalist and that there 
were no objections to his being received. Thereupon, there was a 
reception with Dr. Goebbels. 

Mr. Flood. Were you present? 

Mr. Stephan. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Flood. Did Meyer ever report to you after he talked to Dr. 
Goebbels? 

Mr. Stephan. Yes; he did. He came to me immediately after the 
reception and told me how the conversation had developed. 

Mr. Flood. Could you tell us the day and the month and the year 
of Meyer's meeting with Goebbels? 

Mr. Stephan. I should assume that it was the 1st or 2d of April 
1943. 

Mr. Flood. Will you give us the gist of Meyer's report to you after 
his meeting witli Goebbels on this subject? 

Mr. Stephan. Of course, I can do that only in very general terms, 
because 9 years have passed since then, and at (hat time 1 did not think 
or assume that I would ever have to testify as to that before an 
American commission. 

Mr. Flood. Do you want to try ? 

Mr. Stephan. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Go ahead. 

Mr. Stei'itan. Of course, it can only be a general impression. 
Meyer said approximately that Dr. Goebbels was extremely surprised. 
If I am i)ennitted to say it less seriously, I should like to say he could 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1249 

hardly believe the fortune that had occurred to him. He was so very- 
much surprised that such an important news should just come to him. 

Several days passed and, as far as I know. Dr. Goebbels went to 
Hitler during these days, as he frequently did, and he reported to 
Hitler concerning this matter. And upon his return, he had the satis- 
faction, which was always felt during the Third Reich, that if, in a 
struggle of certain contests you were victorious over a rival, and in 
this case your rival was the army, the armed forces, and Dr. Goeb- 
bels had received authority to take over the case and the armed 
forces had to transfer the matter to him. 

Mr. Flood. Where is Meyer today, if you know ? 

Mr. Stepiian. As far as I know, he fell in action in Berlin in 1945. 

Mr. Flood. And that, Mr. Stephan, is your connection with the 
official communication ? 

Mr. Stephan. Yes, that is all. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. Mr. Stephan, could you tell us whether Meyer 
told you when the German Army first learned of the presence of 
these graves ? 

Mr. Stephan. I think I have to make a distinction between the 
rumors and the time when these rumors were taken seriously. The 
rumors must have been there for quite some time, but the relationship 
between the Russian population and the German soldiers in this area 
was not particularly cordial, and the Russians obviously were shy 
and did not dare tell the official German agencies of these occurrences. 
But when the matter finally became official, I do not think that very 
much time elapsed until the time when he came to Berlin. 

If I may estimate it roughly, I would say it would be about 2 weeks — • 
14 days. 

But I am sure that the German officers who will testify here also 
and who were stationed in this area will be in a much better position 
to testify as to that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Just one other question. 

To the best of your knowledge, was Mr. Meyer's information to the 
Minister of Propaganda the first information that had been received 
on the existence of these graves? 

Mr. Stephan. Yes. I am convinced of that. 

Mr. Dondero. Mr. Stephan, did you see the graves at Katyn ? 

Mr. Stephan. No. I have never been in that region. 

Mr. Dondero. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Madden. Are there any f ui-ther questions ? 

Mr. Stephan, we want to thank you for coming here this afternoon 
and testifying. 

That is all. 

The next witness is Col. Albert Bedenk. 

TESTIMONY OF COL. ALBERT BEDENK, JOHANNISBERG IM RHEIN- 
GAU, GERMANY (THROUGH INTERPRETER ECKHARDT VON 
HAHN) 

Chairman Madden. Will you just give your name? 
Colonel Bedenk. Albert Bedenk. 

Chairman Madden. Will you give us your address, please? 
Colonel Bedenk. Albert Bedenk; 55 years old; Johannisberg im 
Rheingau. 



1250 THE KATYN FOREST AI ASS ACRE 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Bedenk, the counsel will read a statement 
to you and then tlie interpreter will repeat it. You can sit down while 
the counsel is reading it. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that, under German law, you will not be liable 
for slander or libel, either in criminal or civil proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as the result of your testimony. 

Colonel Bedenk. I understand. 

Mr. Flood. Does the witness understand the admonition ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. Will you stand and raise your right hand I 

Do you solemnly swear that you will testify to the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth ; so help you God ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I swear, so help me God. 

Chairman Madden. Congressman Flood, proceed. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 

Colonel Bedenk. Albert Bedenk. 

Mr. Flood. Were you at any time ever identified with the German 
armed forces ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I was a German soldier from 1914 to March 28, 
1946. 

Mr. Flood. Directing your attention to the outbreak of hostilities 
between Germany and Soviet Kussia, in wdiat rank and capacity were 
you serving at that time ? 

Colonel Bedenk. In October 1940 I took over the Signal Kegiment 
537, with the rank of lieutenant colonel and was commanding officer 
of the regiment to November 21, 1941. 

Mr. Flood. Directing your attention to the hostilities on the east- 
ern front, were you ever, in your official capacity, in the armed services, 
serving in that area ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes; I was. I went to that area as regimental 
commander of the Signal Regiment No. 537, and it was my duty to 
arrange all the communications between the various armies belonging 
to the central Army group. 

Mr. Fix)OD. Did you ever serve in the area of Smolensk in that 
capacity ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Will you tell us when you first entered the Smolensk 
area, from where you came, and when you got there? 

Colonel Bedenk. The staff headquarters of the center army grouj") 
Avas located in Borissow fi-om July to approximatelv September 20, 
1941. 

Mr. Flood. When did you move into Smolensk? 

Colonel Bkdkntv. During all the fighting around Smolensk, the 
army group h;ul been thinking of where they could possibly get billets, 
and then they had decided on the area of Smolensk, to set u\) their 
headquarters there. Through this I had the opportunity of getting to 
Smolensk first because I had to see that all connnmiications would be 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1251 

established by the time the army group would move into the area, 
so that they would find all the communications ready and at their 
disposal, in proper working order. 

Mr. Flood. How close was your movement behind the lines of the 
actual combat forces in that area on the day you got there ? 

Colonel Bedexk. Smolensk had already been taken some time ago, 
and the first-run troo))S had already gone as far as Vyazma, hundreds 
of kilometers east of Smolensk, in the direction of Moscow. The first 
time I got to that area was on July 28-29, 1941. On that day I had 
a conversation. It was with the signal chief of the army, not of the 
army group — at that time, still Col. General von Kluge. I had to 
supervise the work of my construction companies, who were establish- 
ing all the communications, and went right into the Smolensk area 
and surveyed the whole area. 

Mr. Flood. What was the name of the chief military unit in the 
Smolensk area, and who was the commanding general? 

Colonel Bedenk. It was the center arm}' group, under the command 
of Field Marshal von Bock. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat was the capacity of General von Kluge at that 
time? 

Colonel Bedexk. At that time, General von Kluge was commander 
in chief of the fourth army, belonging to the center army group. 

Mr. Flood. How many armies were in that army group under Bock? 

Colonel Bedexk. At the time of the advance, we had four armies 
within the center army group. 

Mr. Flood. Where was von Kluge's headquarters set up with rela- 
tion to the city of Smolensk ? 

Colonel Bedexk. It was located west of Smolensk to the south of 
the River Dneiper. 

Mr. Flood. Who was the communications chief? 

Colonel Bedex^k. Major General Gercke. 

Mr. Flood. Who was your immediate superior? 

Colonel Bedenk. Major General Oberhaeuser. 

Mr. Flood. Who was chief of intelligence in the Smolensk area at 
that time, if you know ? 

Colonel Bedex^k. They did not have a direct chief of intelligence, 
but they had a 1-C, as he was called in the German Army. 

Mr. Flood. Wlio was that? 

Colonel Bedenk. At that time, still Lieutenant Colonel von Gers- 
dorfF; later on, major general. 

Mr. Flood. Where did you set up your regimental command head- 
quarters ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I put my regimental staff into a building approxi- 
mately 4 kilometers west of the headquarters of the staff of the Center 
Armv Group, in a house which was right on the banks of the River 
Dnieper. 

Mr. Flood. Did the bnilding in which your staff was housed have 
any particular name in the area ? 

Colonel Bedenk. There was some talk in the region that the build- 
ing had been sort of a recreation home for the commissars in Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. What did the people in the area call the place? Did it 
have any particular name of any kind? 

Colonel Bedenk. There was some talk of the G. P. U. house. 



1252 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear of a place called either the "Little 
Dnieper Castle'' or the "Dnieper Castle," or the "Red Castle"? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 

]Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear of the forest or the town of Katyn ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes; because we were actually billetted in the 
forest of Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. Do you mean this regimental staff headquarters that 
you just described was actually in the forest of Katyn ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I do. 

Mv. Flood. What was the name and number of vour regiment at 
that time ? 

Colonel Bedenk. The official designation Avas Signal Regiment 537 
of the Center Army Group. 

Mr. Flood. And you were the first colonel to take that outfit into 
the Katyn Forest, were you not? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. When did you get there ? 

Colonel Bedenk. We transferred from Borrisow with the regimen- 
tal staff approximately in the middle of August. It may have been 
the beginning; approximately the middle. 

Mr. Flood. When did you turn over the command of that regiment 
to your successor ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Colonel Ahrens came out to the eastern front on 
October 20, 1941, and during the period from between October 20 and 
November 20, I told my successor, who at that time was still Lieu- 
tenant Colonel Ahrens, all he ought to know about things there, and 
actually prepared him for his new job. 

Mr. Flood. On what date did you turn it over to Colonel Ahrens? 

Colonel Bedenk. I did not actually hand over on a specific day; 
this handling over business stretched over a whole month. 

Mr. Flood. When did you relinquish the command of the regiment? 

Colonel Bedenk. On the 20th of November 1941. 

Mr. Flood. How many men did you have on your staff when you 
were in this headquarters in the Katyn Forest — with particular atten- 
tion to the number of officers and noncommissioned officers? 

Colonel Bedenk. The total strength was approximately 17, of which 
5 or 6 were officers and 4 were noncommissioned, and the rest enlisted 
men. 

Mr. Flood. About how many enlisted men did you have serving at 
the staff headquarters? 

Colonel Bedenk. For security reasons, to do guard duty, I had 
requested and received two postal constructural units, which actually 
belonged to the regiment, and they had been detailed to my staff 
headquarters. 

Mr. Flood. I do not mean that kind of personnel; I mean enlisted 
personnel actually on the staff at headquarters. 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't remember the actual numbers; some 
drivers and cook and "flunkey." 

Mr. Flood. How many? Can you give us an educated guess. 

Colonel Bedenk. About 9 or 10 men, including NCO's. 

Mr. Fi^oD. Did you have any natives of the area, Russian peas- 
ants, male or female, working in any capacity at the staff head- 
quarters? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1253 

Colonel Bedenk. I had brought with me from Borrisow three Rus- 
sian POW's, one a carpenter, the other two, agricultural laborers who 
had been working for me, and I took them along to Katyn, to my 
staff headquarters. 

Mr. Flood. Did you employ any natives of the immediate area of 
Katyn, of Smolensk ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I did. First, for kitchen duty, I had taken 
on some women fiom Smolensk, and later on, some women from the 
near vicinity, because Smolensk was too far away. 

Mr. Flood. Will you describe, in as complete detail as you recall, 
the physical lay-out of this building, which was your regimental staff 
headquarters ? 

Colonel Bedenk. The building was located approximately 1,000 to 
1,200 meters away from the highway, right on the banks of the Dnieper 
River. 

Mr. Flood. Between what two big towns nearest did the highway 
run ? 

Colonel Bedenk. The two towns were Orscha and Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Did it appear to be a new highwaj^, or an old highway, 
a new road or an old one ? 

Colonel Bedenk. It was an old road. 

Mr. Flood. Tell us more about the layout of this building inside and 
outside, around the area. 

Colonel Bedenk. It was a double-story house. It was surrounded 
by continuous balconies right around the building, on both floors'. 
There was a main building and some outbuildings. On the lower floor 
there were 2 very large rooms measuring approximately 20 by 40 feet 
each, and 4 or 5 smaller rooms. The upper floor had only one of 
those lai'ge rooms, the same mentioned as downstairs, and also 4 or 5 
smaller rooms, which could have been used as guest rooms. 

The main outbuilding contained the kitchen and a number of 
smaller rooms, 6 to 8 of them, not of equal size, some smaller, others 
a bit larger, which could also accommodate several people, up to 4 
people, for instance, overnight. 

Mr. Flood. How far was the house from the highway? 

Colonel Bedenk. As I said before, between 1,000 and 1,200 meters. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know of the station or the town of Gniezdowo ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't remember it. 

Mr. Flood. How far was the house from the city or the toAvn of 
Smolensk ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Approximately 8 to 9 kilometers — that is five to 
six miles. 

Mr. Flood. How far was the house from the town or the village of 
Katyn ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Between 4 and 5 kilometers, about — about 13 or 
14 kilometers. 

Mr. Flood. Will you descrilie just briefly the area in the forest 
within 500 meters of the hoirse? 

Colonel Bedenk. The house, as seen from the highway, was located 
in a dense ]Dine forest. Partly it was mixed forest. There were no 
clearings, that I noticed. It was a typical Russian forest, not well 
kept, just the ordinary Russian forest. 



1254 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Tlie witness shows the committee a small photogi'aph, 
which indicates in the front of the photograph a river, with a wooded 
shore on an elevation of about 15 degrees, and, on the top, what 
appears to be a fairly large-sized wooden building, with a castle-like 
tower on the left. 

I am not concerned so much Avith the appearance of the forest be- 
tween the honse and the river; I am concerned now with the appear- 
ance of tlie forest witliin 1,000 meters on the other three sides. 

Colonel Bedenk. The house was also surrounded on the other three 
sides by a dense mixed forest, pines and also evergreen trees. 

Mv. Flood. Did you ever take any walks in the forest for recreation 
or other purposes cluring the period you were there ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Alone, or with others ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I frequently took walks with General Oberhaeuser 
whenever we had something to discuss with reference to our duties. 

Mr. Flood. During the course of those walks in any part of the 
Katyn woods in any area of this house, did you ever see any mounds 
of any kind or earth piles of any sort that attracted your attention? 

Colonel Bedenk. On the occasion of such walks, l)oth I and General 
Oberhaeuser did notice some small mounds, which were about 1 to 2 
meters long — that is, 3 to 6 feet long — and about 3 centimeters — that 
is one foot — high. But altogether, the country was slightly undu- 
lating. 

Ml-. Flood. How far, if you recall, from the headquarters house were 
any of these mounds of earth? 

Colonel Bedenk. Between 80 and 150 meters. 

Mr. Flood. Did they resemble in any way freshly dug graves or 
earth piled up over freshly dug graves ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. We never had that impression. 

Mr. Flood. Did you or General Oberhaeuser ever comriiicnt to each 
other or to anybody else, that you recall, in connection with those 
mounds or graves? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, we did not, either. 

Mr. Flood. Were there any odors of any kind emanating from the 
area, that were particularly noxious, if you recall, that you noticed? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. If I had noticed anything like that I would 
never have set up my staff headquarters there. 

Mr. Flood. If there had been any you would have noticed it, would 
you not? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes; definitely. 

Mr. Flood. During the time when you first moved into the Katyn 
area, did you see or have any reports of Polish prisoners at that time? 

Colojiei Bedenk, I never heard anything of that kind. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see any Polish prisoners in the area yourself ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I did not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you occupy any Russian prison camps? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I did not. I never saAv a i^rison camp. 

Mr. Flood. You told me that you had some Russians from the area 
wlio were woi-king in your staff headquarters somehow or other, do- 
mestic workers. 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, that is correct. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1255 

Mr. Flood, And you said that you had several Polish POW's 
working around there. 

Colonel Bedexk. Not Polish ones ; Russian POW's. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have any conversations, or did you not hear 
from any of tlie people tliat worked for you, or any of your soldiers 
or anybody, at any time, any stories about Polish prisoners or Poles 
being killed, or anytliing of that kind ? 

Colonel Bedenk. My Russian prisoners told me that they had 
been told by Russian civilians of that area that shooting had taken 
place in the Katyn Forest, a lot of shooting, but they never referred 
to any Polish pi-isoners having been shot. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever receive, from any German superior officer, 
or did you ever hear of orders issuing through the German command, 
to kill Polish officers or commissars or Russian officers or commissars? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, never. 

Mr. Flood. You never heard discussed, at any time from higher 
echelons, any discussion or question among your brother officers about 
orders from superior German command for that purpose ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, never. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever order any Polish prisoners killed yourself ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I never saw any. 

Mr. Flood. Who was Von Eichborn ? 

Colonel Bfdenk. Von Flichborn was communications expert with 
the Chief of Communications of the Central Army Group. 

Mr. Flood. Was he ever stationed with you at your regimental 
staff headquarters, in residence ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Von Eichborn did not live at my staff head- 
quarters. He lived about four kilometers away, but very frequently 
came to my staff headquarters because I also had an officer working 
on the same thing, also an expert on communications, and these two 
had to do qu'ie a bit of work together. 

Mr. Flood. Who was Lieutenant Hodt? 

Colonel Bedenk. First Lieutenant Hodt was sometimes detailed to 
my staff from one of the companies as orderly officer attached to me. 

Mr. Flood. As an experienced colonel in the army at that time, if 
you knew or had heard that tliere were graves or a grave containing 
several thousand bodies in a certain place in a forest, would you have 
placed your regimental staff command residence within 5*0 to 100 
kilometers of that spot, had you known ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I would not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever put up or give quarters to any groups of 
(lerman soldiers of any other outfits, up to the number of 25 or 30, 
during the entire period you were at the staff headquarters? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, never. I never had any other troops there. 

Mr. Flood. Were there any Einstazgruppe Kommandos in your 
area in Smolensk when you moved in? 

Colonel Bedenk. I am unable to say. I don't know. I didn't see 
any. 

Mr. Flood. What were the general security orders, if any, that you 
gave in the area of you)' regimental staff headquarters ? 

Colonel Bedenk. In the daytime, I had a double guard posted on 
the highway at the spot where the road to my house branched off. 

Mr. Flood. Why? 

03744 — 52 — pt. 5 3 



"1^256 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Colonel Bedenk. First of all, for the purpose of catching units of 
mv reirinient, or dispatch riders, or officers looking lor me, to put them 
on the rio-ht road to my house, because the house Avas so hidden among 
the trees that it could not be seen from the highway. 

Mr. Flood. How many guards in any one day, m any period ot time 
you were there, would you have posted? 1,1 

Colonel Bedenk. In daytijne, I had only those two guards posted 
at the highway, and, at night, I had a patrol of two men going around 

the house all tlie time. 1 <• i .1 ;,. n,^ 

Mr Flood. Did you ever throw up a coidon of tinned guards m tlie 
entire forest area with relation to the highway, tlie river, 1,000 meters 
from the house, your house, at any time you were there < 

Colonel Bedenk. No, never. • , r 

Mr. Flood. Was the area verboten to everybody, incJudmg cni- 

^'^Colonel Bedenk. The area was not a verboten area. It was all 
open, particularly in view of the fact that near the house there was 
a crossincr point for the river where the peasants used to cross over 
in boats *and there was always some civilian traffic passing by. 

Mr Flood. Was there much traffic, military or civilian, or both, on 
the highway passing in both directions within 1.000 meters ot your 
house during the time you were there ^ 10 ^ u 

Colonel Bedenk. During the first time, m August and September, 
traffic was very heavy. 

Mr. Flood. Day and night ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Day and night. ^^ ^ ^ i-^ 

Mr Flood. Did you have any electric lights or any kind of higU- 
powered lights erected on trees in the area of your headquarters or 
within 1,000 meters of your headquarters in the forest m any 

direction? ■ ^^ ^ ^ 4. ^^ 

Colonel Bedenk. No, we had no electric lights at all. 
Mr Flood. Did you ever have any staff conferences as high as 
division or group level at your headquarters while you were there? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, there was one conference in September when 
all of the communications chiefs of the army group were convoked 
to my staff headquarters for a conference. 

Mr. Flood. Was your outfit armed ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Flood. What did they carry? 

(Colonel Bedenk. Carbines, and the postal construction companys 
only carried pistols. 

Mr. Flood. What did the NCO's carry? 

(^olonel Bedenk. They only had pistols. . « 1 j 

Mr. Flood. How many NCO's did you have at your staff head- 
quarters carrying i)istols? 

Colonel Bedenk. Six or eight. i i. 9 

Mr Flood. Who were these postal workers you are talking about? 

(\)lon('l Bedenk. Hiey were half civilians and half soldiers. 

Mv Flood. What kind" of bread is that? , 

(\,l()iud Ih-.DEXK. Thov were construction groups, civilians em- 
ployed by tlie (ieniian lieich Post and working on the telephone and 
te]e<rra])h lines, and were detailed from the postal authorities to the 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1257 

anil}' and had been put in uniform and were doing the same work out 
tliere tliat they were doing at home in ordinary times. 

Mr. Flood. You mean the post office just turned them over to the 
army en masse and the army put uniforms on them, and there they 
were ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Xot quite as roughly as that. As long as the 
German Army was still within the territory of the former Reich, the 
postal authorities were still running all these lines and looking after 
them, and so the}^ were just attached to whichever regiment or divi- 
sion was there. 

Mr. Flood. You wouldn't call them ver}' skilled marksmen, would 
you ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Piobably there must have been a number of old 
soldiers among them. 

Mr. Flood. Among the postal workers? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Now, Colonel, the Soviet report on a commission con- 
vened by tlie Soviet to investigate the Katyn massacres, and the in- 
dictment at Nuremberg of one Goering, which contained the Katyn 
matter, and the Soviet prosecution of that indictment at the Nurem- 
berg trials, charged tliat these murders were committed by Construc- 
tion Regiment 537 under the command of a Colonel Ahrens. 

Colonel Bedexk. This accusation is wrong in every detail. 

Ml'. Flood. "When did Colonel Ahrens take over fi-om you, to repeat 
for the record ( 

Colonel Bedenk. Colonel Ahrens took over the regiment from me 
on November 20, 1941. 

Mr. Flood. So, Colonel Ahrens was not in connnand in tliat area 
for several months prior to November, was he ? 

Colonel Bedenk. That's correct. He took over the regiment on 
November 20 although he had already arrived one month prior to 
that date, October 20, in order to get ready and to know about things 
and what duties he would have, and he had no executive power. 

Mr. Flood. According to the Soviet report and the Soviet prosecu- 
tion at Nurenberg, these murders were committed during a time and 
by a regiment of the same number as yours during the period of tune 
when you were in command in that area. 

Colonel Bedenk. I know that the Soviets came out with this 
accusation. 

Mr. Flood. I ask you two final questions : 

Did you receive or give any orders for the execution of any prisoners 
of war, particularly Polish officers, in the Katyn Forest during the 
time you were in command there? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 

Mr. Flood. If any such executions or murders had taken place, 
being done by anybody else, especially Gei-mans, day or nio-ht. in that 
area during the period of time you were in command, could it possibly 
have been done without your knowing or hearing about it ? 

Colonel Bedenk. If any firing had taken place at all, I would have 
known about it immediately because it would have been reported to 
me straight away. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see any executions? Did you ever hear of 
any such executions, or were reports of any ever made to you? 



1258 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Colonel Bedexk. No. The first I heard about the shooting of these 
Polish officers was after the graves had been opened. 

Mr. Flood. What was the answer to my question — yes or no? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 

Mr. Flood. That's all. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Are you now serving in any capacity for the 
German Government? 

Colonel Bedexk. No. I am war disabled and live on a pension. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you, before you were called to this com- 
mittee, consulted with anyone regarding your testimony? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I did not. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you been instructed by anyone other than 
this committee in any way regarding your testimony today? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, by nobody. 

Mr. IMachrgwicz. Have you read the official Russian report on the 
Katyn Forest ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I merely read the articles which were published 
in the periodical Spiegel and in the Schwabischer Nachtrichter, and 
found quite a few details were incorrect in them. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you notice in that official Russian report 
the statement that the building you described as your headquarters 
was used as a place of orgy for German officers? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did. you read that report? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I never read it. 

]\Ir. Mactirowicz. Do you know Oberleutnant Rekst? 

Colonel Bedenk. Rekst was my regimental adjutant and he was 
also regimental adjutant at the time of Colonel Ahrens. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you know that a Russian official by the name 
of Anna Aleksiejewa stated in her affidavit in the Russian report that 
Oberleutnant Rekst was the adjutant of Colonel Ahrens? Is that 
true? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you know Lieutenant Hodt ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was he under your command? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, he was in my regiment. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And also a man by the name of Lumert? 

Colonel Bedenk. That was the staff corporal sitting in the regi- 
mental office doing the secretarial work. Later on, he was made an 
officer, but not at that time. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I'll mention a few other names she noted in her 
affidavit and ask you if you remember them. 

Rose, who had charge of the electric plant. 

Colonel Bedenk. That's possible. We had a pumping station. It 
might be this one here on this picture. 

Mr. Flood. The witness shows the committee a picture of what is 
obviousl}^ a pum]iing house or ])ower house, with two soldiers stand- 
ing there, obviously employed in some capacity with that machinery. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was Oberleutnant Ahrens in the Katyn area at 
the same time you were? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, he was there for one month together with 
me, from Octob:»r 20 to November 20. I left the area after handing 
over the regiment to him on November 21. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1259 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you have a man there whom you used as an 
interpreter whose first name was Johann ? 

Colonel Bedenk. That might have been my flunky, but his first 
name was Josef. 

Mr. Machrowicz. For your information, Aleksiejewa claims that 
Johann, at the request of Ahrens, instructed the peasants in the area 
not to say anything about the shooting they had been hearing while 
you were in charge. Is there any truth in that statement? 

Colonel Bedenk. I do not know, but it is possible, in my opinion, 
that this Johann or Josef was later on taken into the staff of the 
regiment, but that was after I had gone, so I do not know about that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You have testified previously that you were told 
by some of the local people that shootings had taken place in this 
forest, is that correct? 

Colonel Bedexk. Yes, that's correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did they tell you when those shootings had 
been taking place ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, they did not give any details. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Didn't you consider it important to inquire? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, for the simple reason that I assumed that all 
this shooting was in connection with the fighting that had taken place 
around about there — that they meant that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Didn't these mounds that you saw in the area 
stir any suspicion in your mind ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, none. 

Mr. Macpirowicz. Did you ever investigate what those mounds 
were there for ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, I didn't, because I wasn't interested in that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you find in the area of Katyn within, say, 
ten or twelve kilometers, any encampments ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I didn't find any encampment in my region, but 
it is possible that where tlie army group was billeted, that being old 
army territory, there might have been some encampment, and some- 
thing was being said about a childrens' recreational institution located 
in that area before the war. 

Mr. MACHR0^^^[cz. The Russians claimed that there were three 
camps within a close proximity of this Katyn Forest and that the 
Polish officers were located in these three camps and were left behind 
them when the Germans advanced forward. Now, do you know 
anything about the existence of any camps which might answer that 
description ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I never saw any such installations which might 
have been camps. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You had charge of communications for how 
many miles in that area ? 

Colonel Bedenk. My communications stretched over hundreds of 
kilometers, as far a Vyazma and Orel and north to the Ninth Army 
and even to a tank army that was operating hundreds of kilometers 
away. 

Mr. Machrowicz. If there were any camps of that type near the 
railroad line wouldn't you have known about them? 

Colonel Bedenk. Along the railroad lines, no, because we never 
used the railroad. We had nothing to do with them. 



1260 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Machrowicz. If thpy were along the lines of communication, 
Avoulcl you have knoAvn? 

Colo7iel Bedenk. But we had only something to do with communi- 
cations. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you know what the first railroad station is, 
west of Smolensk? 

Coloned Bedexk. I do not recollect exactly. Something like 
Krosny Bor, I believe. 

Mr. Machrow^icz. Do you remember wdiat the second station was? 

Colonel Bedenk. I do not recollect. I was never on the railroad, 
so I do not know. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Does the name Gniezdowo bring any recollection 
to you ? 

Colonel Bedenk. The village of Gniezdowo was near this highway 
and near Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you ever return to the place where the graves 
were, after you had left there in November ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I returned to this area in August 1943, to 
check out with General Obei'haeuser because I had been transferred 
at that time. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was that after the graves were found? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, after the graves had been found and after 
the exhumations had taken place and the whole business was finished. 

Ml". Machrowicz. Did you see any of the bodies? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, everything was closed up by the time I got 
there. 

jNIr. Machrowicz. What kind of soil was there in this forest? 

Colonel Bedenk. As far as I know and remember, sandy soil. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was it a light soil or a dark soil? 

Colonel Bedenk. A light colored soil, and light soil. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I believe you testified also, previously, that it 
was a dense forest, is that correct? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes. In parts fhe forest was very dense, and it 
was mostly young trees in those parts. 

Ml'. Maciirow^icz. In the parts which you later learned the graves 
were found, was it thick or thin? 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't know where the graves are, because I 
never w^ent there. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You were there in August 1941, just a few 
months after they were exhumed? 

Colonel Bedenk. Only in the area to report to General Oberhaeuser, 
who was living 4 kilometers away from that spot. I didn't go to the 
graves. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Well, because of the fact that you had previously 
been in that area in 1941, didn't it interest you to find out where those 
graves were found? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. We were in a very great hurry because we 
were beinc: transferred with the whole staff headquarters of the Army 
to the Balkans, and we had to hurry to Smolensk to catch a plane to be 
flown down to the Balkans, so we Avere in a very great hurry. 

Mr. IVIachkowicz. Did you ever employ 500 Russian prisonei's of 
war in the work in the Katyn forests? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1261 

Mr. Machrowicz. Are you familiar with the fact that in the Rus- 
sian charge it is claimed that the officer in command hired 500, or 
rather, employed, 500 Russian prisoners of war to help dig the graves? 

Colonel Bedexk. No, I don't know. 

Mr. Machrowicz. At any rate, during the time that you were there 
you claim you never employed 500 Russian prisoners of war or any 
figure near that ? 

Colonel Bedenk. The most I ever employed were 3 prisoners I al- 
ways had there, that I brought along from Borisow. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I think you mentioned before that Rose was one 
of the officers in your detachment. 

Colonel Bedenk, I don't know Rose. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You never heard the name Rose? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was there a mechanic employed by you by the 
name of Greniewski? 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't know, but not at my time ; definitely not. 

Mr. Machrowicz. The reason I ask you that question, witness, is 
because in the Russian charge one Michailowa claims that when she 
and some others came near the place where the graves were subsequently 
found, a noncommissioned officer Rose and a mechanic Greniewski 
chased them away and threatened them if they came near that scene. 

Colonel Bedenk. I know nothing about that. The name of Rose 
is unknown to me, and the name of Greniewski too. That must have 
happened after I had gone away from there, if it happened. 

Mr. Machrowicz. The name "Greniewski" is spelled G-r-e-n-i-e-w- 
s-k-i. 

Who was your billeting officer ? 

Colonel Bedenk. At that time it was a Captain of the reserves, 
Emil Schaeffer. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who was Irvin Algier? 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't know him. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. Any further questions ? 

Let me ask you this. I don't think you have testified to it. 

Oh, pardon me; go ahead. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. As the Germans started their offensive against the 
Russians, was it the policy of the Russians to leave behind any amount 
■of able-bodied men, whether they were Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, 
Estonians, or Russians ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't know anything about that, as I was never 
with the first fighting troops, or with the first-line troops. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Do you know any order of any disposition that 
might have been made in case they did, for instance, capture 15,000 
Polish officers? 

Colonel Bedenk. No. 

JSIr. O'KoNSKi. Just one more question. 

If disposition had been made of some 15,000 Polish officers, with the 
German economy as it was at that time is there any likelihood that 
the Germans would have done them the honor of burying them with 
brand new overcoats and a brand new pair of boots ? Or do you think 
that those might have been removed ? 



X262 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Colonel Bedenk. I cannot answer that question. I don't know 
how to answer that question. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In the Russian charge there are also affidavits of 
about 4 or 5 local people who testify under oath that in the fall of 
1941 they frequently heard much shooting in those forests. Was 
there any shooting going on in that forest at that time ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, there was no firing going on wdiatever in the 
fall of 1941. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You w^ere there during all of tlie fall of '41, 
were you not ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I spent the whole fall of '41 there. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And were you in charge ? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes, I was in charge. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Up to November of that year? 

Colonel Bedenk. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. The charge also states that some of those shoot- 
ings took place in the beginning of September of 1941. Do you know 
anything about that ? 

Colonel Bedenk. I cannot understand that ; I know nothing about 
it. 

Mr. Machrowicz. The witness Aleksiejewa also charged in her affi- 
davit that she herself saw, in the fall of 1941, while she was on her 
way to work, how the German officers sent a great number of Polish 
prisoners to the forests and later several shots were heard. Do you 
know anything about that incident ? 

Colonel Bedenk. That is a clear invention. That is impossible. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you ever read these affidavits ? 

Colonel Bedenk. No, never. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. I don't think you mentioned the size of this 
Katyn Forest. How large was this forest area? How large? 

Colonel Bedenk. It was about 1200 meters from the high road to 
the house. There was dense forest on both sides, but it was generally 
called the Katyn Forest. But how large that forest was, and how 
far 

Chairman Madden (interposing) . How many meters thick, through 
it? 

Colonel Bedenk. I don't know, because I never went to the other 
end of the forest. 

Chairman Madden. Are there any further questions? 
(No response.) 

Chairman Madden. Colonel, we are very thankful to you for com- 
ing here and testifying today. 

The Committee will now adjourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. 
(Whereupon at 5 : 50 p. m. Monday, April 21, 1952, a recess was 
taken until 10 a. m., Tuesday, April 22, 1952.) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



TUESDAY, APRIL 22, 1952 

House of Representatives, 
The Select Committee on the Katyn Forest Massacre, 

Frankfurt /Main, Germany. 

The committee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to call, in the Main Court- 
room, Resident Officer's Building, 45 Bockenheimer Anlage, Hon. Roy 
J. Madden (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Messrs. Madden, Flood, Machrowicz, Dondero, and 
O'Konski. 

Also present : John J. Mitchell, chief counsel to the select committee, 
and Eckhardt von Hahn, interpreter. 

(The proceedings and testimony were translated into the German 
language. ) 

Chairman Madden. The hearings will come to order. 

Mr. Mitchell, who is the next witness ? 

Mr. Mitchell. General Oberhaeuser. 

Chairman Madden. Will you give your full name and address to 
the reporter? 

General Oberhaeuser. Eugen Oberhaeuser, Memmelsdorf, Ober- 
franken. 

TESTIMONY OP EUGEN OBERHAEUSER 

Chairman Madden. Counsel will read the statement to the witness. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before your testimony, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for anything 
you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the 
same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government 
of the United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes 
any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander 
proceedings which may arise as the result of your testimony. 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Let the record show that the witness understands the 
admonition. 

Chairman Madden. The witness will be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almighty, that you will testify 
as to your own knowledge and tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Eugen Oberhaeuser. 

Mr. Flood. Were you, at one time, identiJfied with the German 
armed forces ? 

1263 



1264 THE KATTN FOREST MASSACRE 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, I was an officer of the permanent forces. 

Mr. Flood. What was 3'oiir rank and what was the nature of your 
command in 1941 ? 

General Oherhaeuser. I held the rank of lieutenant general and 
was the chief of communications of the central army group. 

Mr. Flood. Could that be referred to and could your status be re- 
ferred to as nachtrichten commander of the army group ? 

General Oberhaeuser. It could be called that. Our designation 
was chief of communications of the army group (Nachtfuehrer.) 

Mr. Flood. Who was the commanding general or field marshal of 
the army group ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Up to Christmas, 1941, the commander in 
chief of the army group was Field Marshal von Bock. He was suc- 
ceeded by Field Marhal von Kluge. 

Mr. Flood. What was von Kluge's command up until December, 
1941, when he succeeded von Bock? 

General Oberhaeuser. He was commander in chief of the Fourth 
Army. 

Mr. Flood. And I suppose the Fourth Army was one of the armies 
in the middle group. 

General Oberhaeuser. That is correct. The army group included 
4 or 5 armies and the Fourth Army was part of army group center. 

Mr. Flood. What, in a general way, were your duties as chief of 
communications for the army group ? 

General Oberhaeuser. As chief of communications, I was respon- 
sible for all the communiactions, such as telephone, teletype, and wire- 
less from army group center to the single armies belonging to it, and to 
fulfill my duties, I had been given signal regiment 537. We were 
also partly responsible for communications with the supreme com- 
mand. For this purpose, there was a special regiment which was 
attached to us. 

Mr, Flood. What was the name of that outfit? 

General Oberhaeuser. 597. 

Mr. Flood. 597 what? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not quite recollect that this regiment 
had a special name. It was probably called signal regiment 597. 

Mr. Flood. Were you in a position, as chief of conniuniications, at 
any time from July to December of 1941, officially, to intercept or be 
in a position to intercept, special orders from the supreme command 
to the army group? 

General Oberhaeuser. It was part of my duty to see that commu- 
nications were in order, that it was always possible to talk freely, but 
I was never instructed to watch over conversations being held between 
the supreme headquarters and the army group. It was my task merely 
to see that communications worked properly. 

Mr. Flood. Well, I am not interested so much in whether you 
received instructions to listen. What I want to know is, did you, 
whether you received instructions or not? 

General Oberhaeuser. I was in a position to listen in to conver- 
sations and to intercept them in the course of my duties so as to make 
sure that communications worked properly. 

Mr, Flood. You therefore were in a position to intercept or to be 
aware of any orders from a supreme command or from the army group 
field marshal to any special units of any kind in your area? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1265 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, I was in a position to do so. 

Mr. Flood. You were also, therefore, in a position to be aware of or 
to intercept communications that might take place between field 
marshals commanding various army groups? 

General Oberhaeuser, Yes, I was in a position to do so. 

Mr. Flood. When did your headquarters, your personal headquar- 
ters, and the army group headquarters move into the Smolensk area, 
and where did they come from ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Approximately at the beginning of Septem- 
ber 1941. 

Mr. Flood. Where did the army group set up its headquarters with 
reference to the city of Smolensk ? 

General Oberhaeuser. It was in a forest which contained several 
small wooden houses and was located some 10 kilometers west of 
Smolensk, on both sides of the highway connecting Smolensk and 
Vitebsk. 

Mr. Flood. Where did you set up your communications headquar- 
ters with reference to the army group headquarters ? 

General Oberhaeuser. My personal small headquarters, comprising 
about seven officers altogether, was erected right next to the field 
marshal's headquarters. 

Mr. Flood. How far were those headquarters from the village of 
Katyn ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Approximately 3 kilometers. 

Mr. Flood. Three kilometers from Katyn and about 10 kilometers 
from Smolensk ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, that is so. 

Mr. Flood. How soon after the combat troops moved forward did 
the army group and your headquarters move into the set-up we are 
talking about ? 

General Oberhaeuser. The combat troops took Smolensk some time 
in July, and the army group sent an advance unit into this area very 
soon afterwards, the beginning of August, as the army group intended 
to put up its headquarters which, up to then, had been in Borisow, 
as quickly as possible in the Smolensk area. 

INIr. Flood. What do you mean by an advance unit ? 

General Oberhaeuser. This advance unit consisted of 1 lieutenant 
of my staff and 1 lieutenant from the staff of the army group, and 
approximately 20 enlisted men, whose duty it was to start immediately 
putting up communications, telephone lines, and so forth. 

Mr. Flood. Then this was an advance communications unit ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, it is correct. It was an advance unit of 
my communications unit of signal regiment 537. 

Mr. Flood. It was an advance unit of your command ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, of the troops directly under my com- 
mand. 

Mr. Fix)od. Wliat were the names of these 2 officers you just men- 
tioned who were with the advance party ? 

General Oberu abuser. The officer of my o^vn staff was First Lieu- 
tenant Rucker, and the officer of the signal regiment 537 was Lieu- 
tenant Hodt. 

Mr. Flood. This officer Hodt was not an officer of regiment 537, but 
was an officer of your personal staff, is that correct ? 



1266 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

General Oberiiaeuser. Of regiment 537. 

Mr. Flood. Who was the other officer? 

General Oheriiaei'ser. The other officer, Riicker, was from my 
staff. 

INIr. Flood. How do yon spell his name ? 

General Oberhaeuser. R-u-c-k-e-r, Rucker. 

Mr. Flood. Was he a communications officer as well ? 

General Oberiiaeuser. Yes, he was a communications ofiicer and 
expert. It was always like this, that every signal or communications 
regiment had a high ranking postal officer attached to it, with the 
rank of officer, who had a very good education, usually a university 
man, and they were first-class experts on communications, telephones, 
and so forth. Tliey were permanently :ittached to all the regimental 
staffs of all the communications and signal regiments. 

Mr. Flood. Of the two officers, which was in command of the ad- 
vance party? 

General Oberiiaeuser. Lieutenant Rucker was in charge of this 
advance unit, being the senior in rank, but he acted on orders from me. 
I had been to this area myself and had worked out the plan how to 
arrange all these communications. 

I also want to point out that the communications system of an army 
group is a very elaborate and large scale affair which could be com- 
pared with the communications system of a medium-sized city. 

Mr. Flood. What was the jurisdiction in kilometers of your com- 
mand over communications for tlie Central Army Group? 

General Oberhaeuser. Tlie area under my jurisdiction stretched 
from Orel to Vitebsk, over a distance of approximately 500 kilo- 
meters, from north to south and east to west. It comprised the whole 
area of the army group center. 

Mr. Flood. How long did you stay in command in that area ? 

General Oberhaeuser. From the beginning of the Russian cam- 
paign on June 22, 1941, until October 1943. 

Mr. Flood. You indicated that, in order to have a knowledge of the 
area so as to give instructions to your advance part}?^ as to how to lay 
out communications, you yourself visited the area at the time of or 
before the advance party, is that correct ? 

General Oberhaeuser. It was prior to sending the advance unit into 
the area. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall the month, approximately? 

General Oberhaeuser. More or less at the end of July 1941, very 
soon after the combat troops had taken Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Can you tell me more specifically what you mean by 
"very soon"? How many days after the combat troops moved 
forward ? 

General Oberiiaeuser. To my recollection, I was in the area within 
8 days after tlie combat troops had passed through. 

I Avant to exphiin this in detail. To acconmiodate sucli a large com- 
munications unit and several staff headquarters in a newly conquered 
area, a suitable site must be found, and it is never early enough for a 
connnunicatiojis chief to get to this area so as to locate suitable sites 
and make all the necessary preliminary arrangements. 

Mr. Flood. That being so, I take it for granted that you did con- 
siderable traveling around the Katyn-Smolensk area, in general, 
within a week after the combat troops moved forward ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1267 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, that is correct. I did so, and during 
my first visit to this area, both Lieutenants Eucker and llodt accom- 
panied me. 

Mr. Flood. I suppose that 30 square miles on three sides, except, oi 
course, forward, Avould have been a reasonable tour of inspection 
to set up such headquarters ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, because it was always our tendency to 
decentralize and deconcentrate with a view to avoiding losses through 
enemy aircraft. 

Mr. Flood. Where did Lieutenant Hodt set up his advance head- 
quarters ? 

General Oberkl\euser. I do not recollect where his headquarters 
were, but Rucker set up his headquarters at Krasny Bor. 

Mr. Flood. Krasny Bor, I understand, is a village in the area. 
Where is it located with reference to Smolensk and Katyn? 

General Oberhaeuser. Krasu}' Bor was about 8I/2 to 9 kilometers 
from Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. If I refresh your memory, would you recall that Lieu- 
tenant Hodt set up headquarters for his advance party at Katyn? 

General Oberhaeuser. It is quite possible that Lieutenant Hodt 
set up quarters in Katyn. Katyn is also a village which is not just 
in one spot. It is spread out over the countryside and the actual 
center of Katyn is quite a long distance away from the so-called little 
Dnie])pr Castle. We sliould rathei' call it the area of Katyn, because 
it is so spread out and nut ju>t a siiiall s])ot. It is quite an area. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know Colonel Bedenk ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, I knew him. He was the commanding 
officer of Signal Regiment 537. 

Mr. Flood. AMiere was Signal Regiment 537 on active duty between 
July and December, 1941 ? 

Genera] Oberhaeuser. The regiment was spread out over the whole 
large area of the armj^ group center, over 500 kilometers. 

Mr. Flood. Was the regiment one of the regiments in your com- 
mand? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, it w^as directly under me. 

Mr. Flood. Do you loiow where the colonel set up the regimental 
staff headquarters? 

General Oberhaeuser. In the so-called little Dnieper Castle lying 
on the high bank of the River Dnieper. 

Mr. Flood. What is the relationship of this Dnieper Castle to the 
Katyn Forest? 

General Oberhaeuser. It is located right in the middle of the 
forest. 

Mr. Flood. How far was it from Bedenk's headquarters to your 
headquarters ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Approximately 3 kilometers. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever visit Colonel Bedenk ? 

General Oberhaeuser, Yes, I visited Colonel Bedenk quite fre- 
quently in his headquarters. On an average of about twice a week. 
Sometimes it was once a week and sometimes three times. That de- 
pended on the volume of matters we had to discuss, but, on an average, 
it must liave been about twice a week that I went there. 



1268 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Other than official connections, what was the relation- 
ship between Colonel Bedenk and yourself, personally? 

General Oberhaeuser. We were on very friendly pei-sonal terms. 

Mr. Flood. Will you describe generally, with some reasonable de- 
tail, the surroundings of this so-called Dnieper Castle, Bedenk's head- 
quarters ? 

Just a moment. What are you looking at? 

General Oberhaeuser. It is a rough sketch map of the Katyn ai-ea 
which I prepared already for the Nurnberg hearings. 

Mr. Flood. Will you step up here and let the committee take a look 
at that for a minute? (Whereupon, the witness approached the 
bench.) 

General Oberhaeuser. This is the highway from Smolensk to 
Vitebsk [indicating]. 

Mr. Flood. The witness indicates, on the right of the map, the city 
of Smolensk, and, on the left of the map, the city of Vitebsk. 

General Oberhaeuser. This is the Dnieper River [indicating] and 
this is the so-called Dnieper Castle [indicating] on the left side of the 
sketch map. There is the Dnieper River [indicating] and on the 
north bank, the little Dnieper Castle. 

Mr. Flood. The witness has so indicated and the river and the 
castle appear on the map. 

General Oberhaeitser. Dnieper Castle was approximately 400 to 
600 meters' distance from the highway, with a winding secondary 
road branching off from the highway and leading up to the building. 

Mr. Flood. As I understand it, the main liighway then in that area 
ran from Smolensk to Vitebsk and it was about 400 meters from that 
highway to the Dnieper Castle. 

General Oberhaeuser. That is correct. 

Mr. Flood. Did that main highway seem to be a new highway, a 
new surface, or an old one? 

General Oberhaeuser. As far as I recollect, the surface of this 
highway was asphalt, and it was in a very good condition and was 
also kept in a good condition by our troops. 

Mr. Flood. What was the condition of the forest or woods, if any, 
in the 400 meters between the main highway and the Dnieper Castle? 

General Oberhaeuser, It was a narrow forest road. It was so 
narrow that it was actually difficult for two vehicles to pass each other. 
It was really onl}^ suitable for one-way traffic. 

Mr. Flood. That's the branch rond which led off the main highway, 
through the forest, in the direction of Dnieper Castle? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes. 

I want to state that at the spot where the secondary road branched 
off from the highway, there was a signal flag put up. There is a draw- 
ing of that [indicating]. 

Mr. Flood. The witness indicalos on his sketch the drawing of a 
signal flag, black and j'^ellow witli black numbers on the stripe through 
the center. 

General Oberhaeuser. The number was 537. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat does that indicate? 

(Jeneral OuERriAEUSER. Indicating the signal regiment which was 
billeted there. Tliat was in order to direct dispatch riders and other 
persons looking for the regiment, and I presume that the local civilian 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1269 

population thus got to know about the number of the regiment be- 
cause it was quite easily seen from all sides. 

Mr. Flcod. Was that regimental flag on the main highway at the 
junction of the side road all the time, as far as you know? 

General Oberhaeuser. In the beginning, in 1941, and, to my recol- 
lection, for about 1 year, this flag was always there. Later on, when 
more and more camouflaging instructions were issued, it might have 
been removed, but on this question. Colonel Ahrens will be able to 
give more details. 

Mr. Flood. Well then, during 1941, if that flag was up there, there 
was apparently no mystery about the kind and type of unit that was 
in Dnieper Castle, is that it? 

General Oberhaeuser. I would put it this way : it was evident from 
the flag that a unit with the number of 537 was billeted there. It is 
not said with that that people would realize it was Signal Eeginient 
537, but a unit with the number of 537. 

Mr. Flood. Wiat was the condition of the woods between the main 
highway and Dnieper Castle in the area ? 

General Oberhaeuser. It was a forest with high trees but not very 
dense. On the left-hand side, when going to the castle from the high- 
way, the forest was more dense than on the right-hand side of the 
secondary road. 

Mr. Flood. What are riiese other markings here on the map to the 
general left of the mark for the castle? 

General Oberhaeuser. This spot [indicating] was billets of the 
first company of the regiment which was in charge of the telephone 
exchange which was located there. 

Mr. Flood. Is this billet of that company I am pointing at on the 
map in the Katyn Forest? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes; these billets were still located in the 
forest. On one occasion, they had a heavy air raid and suffered con- 
siderable losses on that occasion. The Russians evidently knew we 
were there. 

Mr. Flood. How far is that billet of that company in the regiment 
from the Dnieper Castle in the forest ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Approximately 1% to 2 kilometers. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat was the nature of that Russian air attack — fight- 
ers or fighter bombers or both, if you remember? 

General Oberhx^euser. Fighter bombers. 

Mr. Flood. What is this next mark indicated further to the left 
of the billet for the company? 

General Oberhaeuser. Underneath is my staff headquarters, and 
this [indicating] was a small wooden building of Field Marshal 
von Kluge. 

Mr. Flood, How far is that from Dnieper Castle? 

General Oberhaeuser. Approximately 3 kilometers. 

Mr. Flood. What are these next indications to the left of the field 
marshal's headquarters ? 

General Oberhaeuser. The technical central exchange for telephone 
and teletype communications. This exchange was put into a building 
wliich had to be constructed, and, as a matter of f-ict, it was con- 
structed by the advance unit to accommodate the exchange. 



1270 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Thank you. Be seated, please. [Whereupon, the wit- 
ness resumed his seat.] 

Mr. Flood. The committee would be ver}^ grateful if you would 
prepare a similar map, Avith a little more care or atteutiou, in order 
that the committee might have it photostated, or if you will prepare 
an exact copy of what you have just described for the records of this 
hearing. 

General Oberiiaeuser. Yes, I certainly would take pleasure in 
doing so, but I wish to point out that I drew this sketch only from 
memory in Nuremberg and I cannot absolutely guarantee that all the 
distances will be quite correct, but, on the whole, it is fairly correct. 

Mr. Flood. Under those circumstances and conditions we would 
still be glad to have a copy of that map. 

Note. — Refer to exhibit 74. 

Mr. Flood. Did j^ou ever take any walks with your friend Colonel 
Bedenk in the woods surrounding Dnieper Castle at any time? 

General Oberhaeusek. Yes. When 1 want to see Colonel Bedenk 
at the castle, we used to go for walks to the forest to get some fresh 
air and some exercise. 

Mr. Flood. In those walks, did you ever see any mounds of earth 
that might resemble graves, any place in the area up to 500 or 1,000 
meters surrounding the castle ? 

General Oberiiaeuser. No, I never noticed anything of that kind, 
although to the left of this secondary road leading from the highway 
to the castle, the forest was not so dense, but I never noticed any 
mounds of earth or anything which might have been graves. 

Mr. Flood. Were you in the Smolensk area in April 104^^), when the 
Germans announced they had discovered the Katyn graves? 

General Oberiiaeuser. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever visit the graves after the discovery was 
announced? 

General Oberiiaeuser. Yes, I went there after the graves had been 
opened on about three occasions. Afterward, I did not go there 
any more because the sight was so dreadful that, if possible, I kept 
away. 1 only went there then when I absolutely had to. 

Mr. Flood. How far from Diiieper Castle Mere the graves when 
you saw them in April 1943? 

Creneral Oberiiaeuser. Approxinuitely 250 meters from the castle. 

Mr. Flood. Weren't you surprised that in all your walks in 1941 
vou hadn't seen such graves or mounds of earth if thev were close to 
the castle? 

(leneral OBKHiiAEisEit. Yes, T was vei_y taken aback ami sliocked 
abont the discovery. 

Mr. Fr.oOD. That may be. AA'hat I want to know is, weren't you 
surprised yourself that you didn't observe or see anything that might 
resemble anything like mounds of earth so clost> to the castle when 
you were walking in that area between July and December 1941, with 
your frieiul. Colonel Bedenk? 

Genei-al Obkrhaeuskr. Once something has been published and yon 
have been to the town hall, then you always know more abont things. 
We nevei- exjK'cted anything. ^W- had no idea that such a thing could 
jnn"e Ixhmi, and so, that's whv the thonght never occnrrtMl to us. 



THE KATYX FOREST RTASSACRE 1271 

Mr. Flood. When did Bedeiik leave command of the regiment? 

General Oberhaeusek. November lOil. 

Mr. Flood. General, you told us that you went into the Katyn- 
Smolensk area about a week after the combat troops, which would 
be in July 1941, and that you traveled around about 30 square kil- 
ometers in the area, looking for a connnunications and army group 
headquarters. In your travels, so soon after the fighting, did you see, 
first, any Polish prisoners of any kind or, second, any Russian prison 
camps ? 

General Oberiiaeuser. To answer question one, I never saw any 
Polish soldier, right through the campaign there, dead or alive. As 
to question two, in that area I never saw any POW camps. In the 
rear, around about Wjasma, we were advancing and we did see some 
former camps which were very dilapidated and half in ruins, with 
typical watchtowers on the corners, but these camps were very old 
and were absolutely in disrepair, and mostly in ruins. However, they 
were further in the rear, hundreds of kilometers in the rear. 

Mr. Flood. They were, then, twenty-five to a hundred kilometers 
to Smolensk? 

General Oberhaeuser. These old dilapidated camps could be found 
all along the highway from Vyazma to Smolensk and up to Minsk — 
Borisow and Minsk — and it was assumed that these old camps had 
accommodated workers who had been working on the highway. These 
old dilapidated camps were actually, later on, reconstructed and used 
for the German units and their laborers who kept the highway in 
order. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear, in the area, of a Russian prison camp 
named Kozielsk ? 

General Oberiiaeuser. At that time I never heard the name. Later 
on, after the graves had been o])ened and the Katyn case became 
public, I did hear the name of Kozielsk occasionally in that con- 
nection, that Polish officers had been wmfined to the camp of Kozielsk 
prior to being taken to Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. Well now, you told us that you were in a position to 
intercept — to see that your operations were working properly — 
and tliat you frequently did intercept communications from the su- 
preme connnand and from the army group commander to the Army, 
isn't that so? 

General Oberhaeuser. Technically, yes. Technically that possi- 
bility existed, but in fact it hai:)peiied very seldom; only when I re- 
ceived complaints from the field marshal or some very high-ranking 
officer, and when I couldn't hear well or understand well the man at 
the other end, then I went in and switched in and checked on this 
rej)oi-t and saw to it that the defects were remedied. 

Mr. Flood. Well, you yourself are a pretty high-ranking officer, 
lieutenant-general, and you were in command of communications for 
the army group. That being so, what do you know about a German 
command order, if thei-e was one, to kill Russian prisoners? 

General Oberiiaeuser. At the time this order was issued 

Mr. Flood (interposing). There was such an ordei-? 

General Oberiiaeuser. I learned later on that such an order to kill 
coinniisvsars did exist, but at that time, at the time it was issued, I 
did not know about it in view of tlie fact that as a connnunications 

0.';744— 52— pt. 5 4 



1272 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

unit we had no connection with the front line and consequently never 
got in touch with any captured commissars or other Russian prisoners. 

Mr. Flood. You indicate that such an order from a supreme com- 
mand, which I suppose would be unusual, passed through your hands 
as commanding officer of communications for the entire army group, 
and you didn't know about it and hadn't heard about it until later on? 

General Oueriiaeuser. An order existed, directly issued by Hitler, 
that any such matter which did not directly concern a certain army or 
corps or division or unit was not to be transmitted to these units. 

Mr. DoNDERO. General Oberhaeuser, did you cause to be erected in 
the Katyn forest area any notices that any persons found without a 
pass in that area would be shot on the spot ? 

General Oberhaeuser. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Dondero. That is all. 

Mr. Flood. Did you trust Colonel Bedenk? 

General Oberhaeuser. Absolutely. 

Mr. Flood. Do you think that Colonel Bedenk would take any orders 
from any SS generals or — in view of the faction politics in the Wehr- 
macht, as in any army — from any other generals, the kind of orders 
that would produce the execution of 4,000 Polish officers, without 
letting you know about it ? 

General Oberhaeuser. That is aboslutely out of the question. 

Mr. Flood. Under all of the circumstances surrounding your rela- 
tionship with Bedenk and his regiment and the proximity of your 
headquarters to his in the Katyn forest, would it have been possible 
at any time between July and November of 1941 for the execution of 
4,000 Polish officers to have been carried out, either by Bedenk or any- 
body else, without your knowing about it ? 

General Oberhaeuser. That would have been quite impossible in 
every respect, particularly in a technical respect, because the tasks 
of these communication troops were so manifold that any such large 
action would have upset the whole schedule of duties and it could not 
have remained a secret. 

Mr. Flood. Did you talk to any generals of the Wehrmacht or of 
any other categories, SS or otherwise, or any German civil, political, 
or propaganda officials of any rank with reference to Poles or the 
disposition of Polish prisoners at any time when you were in command 
in the Solensk area ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Never. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever give anv orders to Bedenk or to any sub- 
sequent commanders of the 537th Regiment to execute Polish officer 
prisoners ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Never. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever, yourself, see or participate in the execu- 
tion of Polish officer prisoners at the Katyn forest between July 
and December of 1941 ? 

General Oberhaeuser. No, never, because such a thing never 
happened there. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Could you tell me what your present occupa- 
tion is? 

(leneral Oberhaeuser. I am retired. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you any connection whatsoever with the 
German Government? 

General Oberhaeuser. No, none. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1273 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you been advised, instructed, or coached 
in any way by anyone before you came to this committee as a witness ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Nobody told me about it ; nobody ever ad- 
vised me; nobody ever even mentioned to me that I would appear 
"before this committee. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were you a witness at the Nuremberg trial? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That was in 1946 ? 

General Oberhaeuser. That is correct ; yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Before you were called as a witness there, were 
you called bj^ anyone and instructed, ordered, or coached as to how 
to testify there ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I was in the Allendorf prison camp, and 
when they came to fetch me to take me to Nuremberg by jeep I didn't 
-even know where I was going. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And your testimony there was on the very same 
matters that you testified here, is that correct? 

General Oberhaeuser. In Nuremberg? Yes, in the same manner. 

Mr. Machrowicz. To the best of your knowledge, was the testi- 
mony, in substance, the same as that given here ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, it was materially the same. If you 
wish, I will submit the affidavit which I have with me. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, in the course of your testimony today, on 
one or two occasions, you referred to certain notes which you have 
in your pocket. Could you tell the committee what those notes are ? 

Genera 1 Oberhaeuser. Those are the affidavits I submitted for the 
l^uremberg trial, the notes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Before whom did you prepare those affidavits? 

General Oberhaeuser. I had to hand them to Dr. Stahmer, and I 
do not know what lie did with them. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Dr. Stahmer was the defense counsel, is that 
correct ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Dr. Stahmer was defense counsel for Goer- 
ing, and the Katyn case formed part of the whole case against Goering, 
it was treated or dealt with in connection with the Goering case. 

Mr. Machrowicz. May I see those notes ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes. 

(Documents submitted to the committee.) 

Mr. Machrowicz. These notes are dated "Nuremberg, June 2G, 
1946," is that correct? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes; that is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And they are entitled, "Eidesstattliche Erklae- 
Tung." Wliat does that mean ? 

General Oberhaeuser. That means "statement in lieu of an oath." 
That is the ordinary heading that is generally used in the heading of 
all such statements. 

Mr, Machrowicz. Did anyone give you any information upon 
which you base the information contained in this statement? 

General Oberhaeuser. No, because there was nobody to whom I 
could have talked and gotten information from, in view of the fact 
that the other officers who were at Katyn were free, while I was a 
prisoner. 



1274 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Maciirowicz. Is this, then, the correct statement as given by 
you to the person who took your oath? 

General Obejuiaeusek. I wish to make a statement. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Go ahead. 

General Oberhaeuser. On a Friday, which was prior to the Monday 
wlien 1 had to appear as a witness, Dr. Stahnier told me that I would 
probably not have to take the stand, and he asked me whether I would 
write out an affid ivit. Among other things, we prisoners learned that 
on this subsequent Monday the matter of Katyn would be brought 
forward. To my surprise, at 8 o'clock the next morning 1 was called 
and told that I would have to appear before the court. 

i\[r. Maciirowicz. Before the tribunal? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes; before the tribunal. The first ques- 
tions were put by Dr. Stahmer, and then came the cross-examination 
by the Russian, Smirnow. In the course of this cross-examination 
totally different questions were put to me than are contained in this 
affidavit, but the questions I was asked by Dr. Stahmer are contained 
in the affidavit, mostly, more or less. 

Chairman Madden. You might explain who this Smirnow is, the 
Russian. 

General Oberhaeuser. To my knowledge he was the Russian repre- 
sentative, or delegate who represented the accusation, the Russian 
prosecutor. 

Chairman Madden. Spell it, please. 

General Oberhaeuskr. S-m-i-r-n-o-w. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, according to the first statement in this affi- 
davit of yours, you were in connnand of that area until about October 
1943, is that correct? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, that is correct. Yes, up to October 
1943 I was in command of that area. The area changed subsequently 
because the German troops had to fall back, and then of course our 
staff lieadquarters and other staff headquarters had to be moved back, 
but up to October 1943 I was chief of comnuinications of the Center 
Army group. 

ISIr. Maciirowicz. Was thei'e an^^ break in time in that command 
since September 1941? 

General Oberhaeuser. Except for noruuil leave, furlough, there 
was no break whatever, I was always tliere, and this furlough was due 
once a year. 

Mr. Machrowuz. Did you know Colonel Ahrens? 

(leneral Oiujuiaeuser. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was he under your command? 

General Oberhaeuser. He was directly under my connnand as suc- 
cessor to Colonel Bedenk, and was the commanding officer of Signal 
Regiment 537. 

Mr. IVIachrowicz. Now, the statement which you prepared in Nurn- 
berg in June 194(5 declares lh:it Colonel Ahrens took the command over 
in November 1941, is that correct? 

General Omerhaeuser. Tliat is con-ect. 

Mr. ]\Ia(iir()Wuz. Do vou know Avhere he was before November 
1941? 

General Omeriiaeuser. Tip to that time Colonel Ahrens was in- 
struct (H- at the training regiment of the Army Communications School! 
in Halle, Saxonv. 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1275 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is approximately how far from Smolensk ? 

General Oberhaeuser. 1,200 kilometers, approximately. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you read the Russian statement made re- 
garding the Katyn Forest? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, I read the protocol, and also the state- 
ments of the three Russian witnesses, but that was only about 2 years 
ago. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Tlie affidavits contained in the Russian statement 
include an affidavit that the murders were committed some time 
between July and November, 1911, and that at that time Colonel 
Ahrens was in command. Is that a true statement of fact? 

General Oberhaeuser. That is quite incorrect, that statement, be- 
cause I clearly remember in November, when Colonel Ahrens took 
over, I had the regiment, or the companies that were available on that 
day, march up tliere, and they were standing in an open square and I 
introduced — I thanked the old regimental commander for all he had 
done, and welcomed the new reg-imental commander. That was in 
November 1941. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, do you have in your possession any written 
orders or any documents which would show the whereabouts of 
Colonel Ahrens in the period between July 1941 and November 1941 ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I believe that Colonel Ahrens himself lost all 
his documents and papers in Halle when his apartment was destroyed, 
but I believe it possible that in the files of the German Army, which 
are in the hands of the American Army at present, something might 
be found to that effect. 

Mr. Machr(^wicz. Now, did j'ou, wldle you were in the Smolensk 
area, know of an order allegedly given by the German command in 
about August of 1941 ordering the civilian population to turn over 
to the Germans all escaped Polish prisoners? 

General Oberhaeuser. I know nothing about such an order. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who was Commander von Schwetz? Do you 
know? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not know that officer. 

Mr. Machroavicz. Is it possible that there would be anyone by a 
name similar to "von Schwetz" that might have given such an order? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not know, but I suggest that General 
von GersdorfF might know something. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, did you know a Herschfeld, who was 
allegedly the Sonderfuehrer of the 7th Division of the German 
Command ? 

General Oberhaeuser. No, I don't know him. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was there anyone in the Smolensk region among 
the higher German officers at the time that you were there by the name 
of Herschfeld ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not recollect any such name, and I 
don't know any such name. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I might state for your information, witness, that 
it is alleged by the Russians that one Herschfeld, Sonderfuehrer of 
the 7th Division of the German Command, was the one who always 
gave an order that all Polish prisoners be captured and brought to 
the German Command. Does that refresh vour recollection? 



1276 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

General Oberiiaeuser. I never had anything to do with the 7th 
Division. I never heard the name of Herschfeld, and I don't know 
anything about the whole matter. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, in about May of 1943 was there published 
in the Smolensk area by anyone in the German Command a request 
to the local population for information regarding the Katyn massacre? 

General Oberiiaeuser. I do not know anything about that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you remember Lieutenant Voss of the Field 
Police? 

General Oberiiaeuser. The name came back to me now in these few 
days while I was here. I remember having heard the name at that 
time, but I couldn't even say what the man looks like. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was he working in connection with Oberleutnant 
Braund, who was commander at Katyn? 

General Oberhaeuser. The name of Oberleutnant Braund does not 
convey anything to me ; I do not know him. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Under the Russian version, I might say Ober- 
leutnant Braund was a commander at Katyn in May 1943. 

General Oberhaeuser. May 1943? 

Mr. Machrowicz. Yes. 

General Oberiiaeuser. It is possible that in the course of the re- 
treat such an officer might have been local commander in Katyn, but 
at that time I v:as already in Austria with my unit. 

Mr. Machrowicz. "Well, the Russians have furnished a so-called 
"appeal to local population" signed May 3, 1943, by Voss, Lieutenant 
of the Field Police, who had allegedly been working under the com- 
mand of Oberleutnant Braund. Does that refresh your recollection ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not know anytliing about that, because 
that was absolutely beyond my jurisdiction. I was in communica- 
tions and had nothing to do with intelligence, so I don't know. 

Mr. ]\Iachrowcz. Have you ever heard of Prison Camp No. 126, 
somewhere in the Smolensk area? 

General Oberhaeuser. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was there any road work done between July 
and November 1941 on the Smolensk-Vitebsk Highway? 

General Oberhaeuser. Well, repairs were carried on all the time 
on the road, chiefly by the Organization Todt, and tliey were also 
using Russian prisoners. But even driving over the highway I did 
notice that work was going on, but I never paid attention to it or to 
the people doing it. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Such work would not be under your jurisdiction, 
would it ? 

General Oberhaeuser. No; in no way whatever. I had nothing 
to do with that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Are you familiar with the Polish uniform, the 
uniform of tlie Polish officers? 

General Oberhaeusei?. I know the Polish officers wear four-cor- 
nered caps, and besides, I saw Polisli uniforms on the bodies exhumed 
at Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Would you be able to distinguish a Polish uni- 
form from a Russian uniform — a Polish officers' uniform a Russian 
officer's uniform? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1277 

General Oberhaeuser. I believe that I could distiiiguisli between 
the uniforms of the Polish officers and Russian officers because at the 
beginning of each campaign we were shown pictures of the uniforms 
and what the opposing soldiers would look like, although I never 
saw one alive. In the Polish campaign in 1939, of course, I did see 
Polish prisoners, but none in Russia later on. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you, between July and November of 1941, 
see any officers in Polish uniforms used by the Germans on road work 
in the Katyn area ? 

General Oberhaeuser. No, never. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Are you aware of the fact that the Russians 
claim that the Germans had been using these Polish officers for road 
repair work in the Katyn area, the same ones who later were found 
in the Katyn graves? 

General Oberhaeuser. I did hear some very vague rumor to that 
effect later on, but nothing definite. 

Mr, DoNDERO. General, you saw the bodies at the Katyn graves, 
did you ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes ; on my two or three visits to the gi^aves 
I saw the dead bodies lying in the graves and a few single ones that 
had been taken out. An autopsy was being performed on them by 
Professor Butz. However, I never stayed long. 

Mr. Dondero. How were tliey dressed? 

General Oberhaeuser. As far as I can recollect, to my great aston- 
ishment the dead bodies were very well clad, in good uniform, all of 
them still had either their greatcoats or capes on, and very good boots, 
so that it gave me the impression that the killings must have been 
done in a hurry, in view of the fact that wallets and all sorts of 
valuables were found on the bodies. It is quite unusual, according 
to my experience, that the Russians, after executing people, would 
bury them with all their good clothes on. That astonished me. 

Mr. Dondero. Do you mean "overcoat" by "greatcoat"? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, overcoats and capes. 

Mr. Dondero. You were in that area from August, at least, until 
November of 19-41. What kind of weather do they have? 

General Oberhaeuser. In July it was still very hot, but then fall 
set in very suddenly, with lots of rain and very much mud, and it was 
very cold and early winter in that year. 

Mr. Dondero. What would it be in the month of August ? Because 
I think there is something in the record to the effect that the Russians 
claim the Germans shot these men during the month of August, 

General Oberhaeuser. Normal, warm summer weather. 

Mr. Dondero. That is all. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I have a few more questions. 

Did you notice any unusually heavy truck movement in the Katyn 
forests in the months of August and November 1941 ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Traffic was not particularly heavy, although 
Signal Regiment 537 had a fairly heavy traffic every day with 
material, building construction material, being taken away to the 
various companies and food and other things being transported all 
the time, so the traffic of the regiment itself was fairly lively, but not 
unusually heavy. 



1278 THE KATYN FOREST ALASSACRE 

Mr. Machrowicz. The affidavits of some of the Russian witnesses 
claim that in August and September and October of 1941 there was 
an unusual number of heavy trucks loaded with many prisoners com- 
ing into the Katyn area. Did j^ou notice any such movement? 

General Oberiiaeuser. No ; no such thing ever happened. It is pv.>s- 
sible tliat the truck loaded with soldiers of Colonel Ahrens now and 
again drove through the forest on duty, but that was all. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you yourself hear, or did you hear froa 
anyone else, about an unusual amount of shooting going on in the 
forest during those months that I have mentioned? 

General Oberhaeuser. I never noticed any tiring, and besides, firing 
was to be prevented at all costs so as not to attract attention of guex*- 
rillas, and so on. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Can you tell us by whom these graves were dis- 
covered, and under what circumstances, and when ? 

General Oberhaeuser. To my laiowledge the graves were discovered 
some time in March 1943, and as to how the discovery was made, that 
knowledge only came to me later. I was told about it later. But some 
Polish auxiliary volunteers, who w^ere working for German divisions, 
marching toward the front line, and who had spent a clay or two in 
that area on the march to the front line, had inquired from the local 
population whether any Polish prisoners or officers had been killed 
and buried in that area. Then, in addition, that wolf story of Colonel 
Ahrens also came up. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Then, to the best of your knowledge, the first 
information the German command had of these graves was about 
March of 1943? 

General Oberhaeuser. To my recollection, in March of 1943 the 
first preparations were made to investigate more closely the many 
rumors going around about these graves. 

Mr. Machrowicz. When did these rumors about the graves start, 
as far as you know ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I myself never heard any such rumors; I 
only got to know about the whole thing when, in March of 1943, the 
first preparations were made to make a thorough search in the forest. 

Mr. Machrowicz. During the Nuremberg trial you were cross-ex- 
amined by Smirnow on the alleged knowledge by the Germans of these 
graves as far back as November 1942. Do you remember that? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not exactly recollect having been asked 
that question in Nuremberg. At any rate, in 1942 I never had an ink- 
ling of the graves. I suggest that Colonel Ahrens or Lieutenant Eich- 
born might be questioned about that. 

IVIr. Machrowicz. Now, you testified previously that these graves 
were such a horrible sight that you never went to them unless you had 
to go. Is that correct? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes; that is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Well, when and why did you have to go and see 
the graves? 

General Oberhaeuser. Well, as I say, in view of the fact that my 
regimental staff was billeted right next to the graves and many people 
were busy digging there, I couldn't help passing right through this 
thing; and, of course, when I passed through I also looked at these 
things and I couldn't help seeing that. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1279 

Mr. Maciiroavicz. Were you ever ordered to go there and see the 
graves and make a report on them ? 

General Oberhaeuser. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were there any trees in the immediate vicinity 
of where the graves were found? 

General Oberhaeuser. In the spot where the graves were found 
there was sort of a clearing with tiny birch trees about 3 feet high — 
whether they had been planted there" or not I do not knov/ — and there 
was some heather on the ground, but, on the whole, it was a fairly 
clear sandy place, sort of a clearing. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, these young saplings, or these young trees 
that you are talking about, were they right over the graves ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I am not able to say whether these small 
birch trees were right on top of the graves because I only saw them 
after they had been opened, but the whole spot was covered with these 
small birch saplings, or birch trees, more or less. 

Mv. Machrowicz. Did it appear to you then that someone, whoever 
it was who dug these graves, after digging these graves, grew young 
sapling or birch sapling trees over them? Is that the impression 
you got? 

General Oberhaeuser. Afterwards I had the impression that prob- 
ably these trees had been planted there for camouflage purposes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. By "camouflage purposes" you mean by someone 
who wanted to conceal the location of the graves, is that what you 



mean 



General Oberhaeuser. Yes, exactly. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And might not that have been the reason why 
these graves were not noticed by you or by the others in that vicinity 
sooner ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes, that is quite correct. That is one of 
the reasoiiR why we probably never noticed the spots where the graves 
were. And besides, similar fairly clear spots were also in other por- 
tions of the forest, so this particular spot didn't distinguish itself 
much from the others. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is all. 

Mr. Dondero. General, was the wood in the vicinity of the graves 
thick or thin? 

General Oberhaeuser. On the north side of the secondary road lead- 
ing from the highway to the castle the forest was not very dense. On 
the other side of this road it was much denser. 

Mr. Dondero. Was that near the graves ? 

General Oberhaeuser. The graves were on that side where the 
forest was not dense. 

Mr. Dondero. Would they be thick enough or dense enough so that 
a man could hide and see the shooting if the men were shot near the 
graves ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Single trees might have been there which 
were thick enough so that a man could have hidden and looked on, 
but the majority of the trees were rather thin. 

Mr. Dondero. Were they tall trees, or were they just a low height? 

General Oberhaeuser. The trees were fairly high, about 40 to 50 
years old, pines ; the size of trees about 40 to 50 years old, pine trees. 
I am no forester, I don't know very much about this. 



1280 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. DoNDERO. Do you think, (Jleiieral, that a man, or two men, 
could have hidden in those pine trees that 3'ou have described, and 
near enough to the graves so they couki have seen what was going on 
if the men were shot very close to where they were buried? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes; in my opinion it would have been 
possible for one or two men to hide, because there were also single 
bushes standing about, so it would not have been impossible to hide 
there and look on. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Well, could they have hidden themselves by climb- 
ing the trees so they could not have been seen ? 

General Oberhaeuser. I do not think tlint is very likely, because 
these pine trees, as usual, are quite bare, without l)ranches. 

Mr. Doxdero. That is all. 

General Oberhaeuser. They only have foliage on top. 

Chairman Madden. Any further questions ? 

(No response.) 

Chairman Maddeist. General, I just want to ask two questions. 

The Russians, in 1943, made an investigation, as you know, and 
then presented a written report of their investigation. 

General Oberhaeuser. I know about this report of the Russians, 
and a few days ago I read in the East Berlin Communist paper, 
Taegliche Rundschau the story which covers, more or less, this Russian 
report. 

Chairman Madden. Yes. Now, General, among the various con- 
clusions or statements which they made in their report was the fol- 
lowing : 

The mass sliootiugs of Polish prisoners of war in the Katyu Forests were car- 
ried out by a German military organization hiding behind the conventional name 
of Headquarters of the 537th Engineering Battalion, which was headed by Lieu- 
tenant Colonel Arnes and assistants, First Lieutenant Rokst and Second Lieu- 
tenant Hodt. 

Now, what do you have to say about that conclusion of the Russian 
report ? 

General Oberhaeuser. It was, in my opinion, quite easy for the 
local population to find out about the name of the unit, and Ahrens 
is quite impossible because he did not take over the regiment before 
November 1941. And the names of those two ollicers, Rokst and 
Hodt, Avere also fairly easy to be found out by the local population 
because these young officers engaged women from the civilian popula- 
tion to work in the kitchen of the staff headquarters and to do other 
housework and chores, and so naturally the names of these officers 
were much in evidence, and they must have become known to the 
civilians as well. 

To my recollection the Russians also named this unit engineer bat- 
talion or construction battalion and I believe that that may come from 
the fact that formerly in the Russian Army and, as far as I know, 
also in the French Army, engineer and communication troops were 
together. 

The allegations by the Russians, in my opinion, that Colonel Ahrens 
and these two lieutenants, Rokst and Hodt, were responsible for the 
shootings are absurd, because Ahrens was not even there at that time. 

Chairman Madden. Now, one more question. 

The Russian report also concluded — and I will repeat this and the 
interpreter can convey it to the witness as I go along : 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1281 

The German occupation authorities, in tlie spring of 1943, brought in from 
other places bodies of Polisli war prisoners whom they had shot and put into the 
open graves in the Katyn Forest, calculating on covering up the traces of their 
own crimes and on increasing the number of victims of Bolshevik atrocities in 
the Katyn Forest. 

General, what do you have to say about that statement of the 
Russians? 

General Oberhaeuser. All I have to say about that is that the Rus- 
sians seem to have a lot of imagination. 

Chairman Madden. All right. Now, the Russians, in their report, 
after their investigation, also concluded: 

"Preparing for their provocation, the German occupation authori- 
ties started opening the graves in the Katyn Forest in order to take out 
documents and material evidence which exposed them" — that is, docu- 
ments from the bodies, letters, and so on — "using for this work about 
500 Russian prisoners of war who were shot by the Germans after this 
work was completed." 

General Oberhaeuser. It is correct that the exhumations were 
made by Russian prisoners of war, but it is absolutely out of the ques- 
tion and impossible that these allegedly 500 Russian POW's should 
have been shot by the Germans. 

I want to point out one fact, that from the letters and documents — 
particularly from the letters — found on the dead bodies by the Ger- 
mans, it emanates quite clearly that all these letters stopped around 
about a certain date, May 1940, and not one letter was dated later 
after that. 

Chairman Madden. That is all. Any further questions? 

^No response.) 

Chairman Madden. Now, General, the committee is very thankful 
for you coming here today and testifying, and your testimony has 
been very helpful. 

Chairman Madden. The next witness is Lieutenant von Eichborn. 

TESTIMONY OF REINHARDT VON EICHBORN, FRANKFURT/MAIN, 
GERMANY (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, ARTHUR R. MOSTNI) 

Chairman Madden. Will you please state your name and address 
for the reporter ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Reinhardt von Eichborn. 

Chairman Madden. Now, the interpreter will stand up and be 
sworn. 

What is your name ? 

Mr. MosTNi. Arthur R. Mostni. 

Chairman Madden. Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almighty, 
that 3^ou will, according to the best of your skill and ability, truly 
interpret the testimonv of the witness from English into German 
and from German into English? 

Mr. Mostni. I do. 

Chairman Madden. Now the counsel will read the witness his 
statement. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable 
for slander or libel either in criminal or in civil proceedings for any- 



1282 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At tlie same time, we wish to make it quite clear that neither the 
Government of the United States nor the Congress of the United 
States assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to. 
libel or slander proceedings which may arise as the result of your 
testimony. 

Chairman Madden. Do you understand that? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes, I do. 

Chairman Madden. You will be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear by God the Almighty that you will, accord- 
ing to the best of your knowledge, tell the pure truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Eeinhardt von Eichborn. 

]Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified with the German armed 
forces ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. What was your rank and what was your connection 
with the German armed forces in 1941 ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I was a lieutenant, and I was a case 
worker for communications affairs with the central army group. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified at any time with the regiment 
537 that we have been talking about here ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. From the outset of the war until the 
winter of 1940 I was a member of this regiment. 

Mr. Flood. What was your duty or job with the regiment? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I was company commander with the 
first company and I was in charge of the communications of this 
group. 

Mr. Flood. When did you go into the Smolensk area ? 

Lieutenant vox Eichborn. Approximately in the beginning of Sep- 
tember, at the same time as the army gi'oup did. 

Mr. Flood. What were you doing with the army group instead of 
with your regiment? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Since December of 1940 I had been 
transferred to this army group. 

Mr. Flood. Were you here when General Oberhaeuser testified ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. What do you know about an advance party or an ad- 
vance unit from the group that went into Smolensk before the staff 
headquarters did? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. xVpproximately 5 or 6 weeks prior to the 
movement of the army group from Borisow to Smolensk, an advance 
unit under the command of two officers, Hodt and Reichert, with a 
few noncoms and enlisted men, was dispatched to the Smolensk area 
in order to prepare communications for staff headquarters of the army 
group. 

Mr. Flood. What was your specialty in communications? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I was in charge of the planning staff 
of communications and of maintenance of communications to the 
army group. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1283 

Mr, Flood. Are you aware of the procedure for the transmission of 
operational orders from the supreme command or from the army 
group, and from the army group to the armies or down to the regi- 
ments in the Smolensk area ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. No direct orders were communicated 
from army headquarters to regimental headquarters, and so forth; 
it was always conveyed via division or corps headquarters. 

Mr. Flood. Were you in a position to intercept or be aware of any 
communications by telephone or otherwise between field marshals 
■commanding arm groups ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I was in charge of seeing to it that such 
communications could be effected without any disturbances. There- 
fore, time and again I had to monitor such messages, and therefore 
I have been in a position to intercept or listen to such information. 

Mr. Flood. Were you in a position to intercept or listen to any com- 
munications from the supreme command or the army command to any 
special groups that might be operating for the Germans in the 
Smolensk area in 1941 ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. If I had intended it. I had a chance to 
monitor every conversation held between headquarters and any sub- 
group or subcommand, and vice versa. 

Mr. Flood. You heard General Oberhaeuser tell us, I suppose, that 
the German high command had issued an order at one time, about this 
time, for the killing of Russian prisoners. 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Did you, in your capacity as a communications expert at 
a highly confidential level, intercept or participate in any communi- 
cations of any nature between the German supreme command or army 
group commanders dealing with the order to kill Russian prisoners? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Six weeks prior to the beginning of the 
Russian war I effected communications between Field Marshal von 
Bock and Von Kluge, a conversation which lasted for about three- 
quarters of an hour, and which dealt with the so-called commissar 
order. 

Mr. Flood. How did you become identified with that exchange be- 
tween those two high-ranking officers? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I was ordered to report to tlie field mar- 
shal, and I was asked whether there was any chance 

Mr. Flood (interposing). What field marshal? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Von Bock — and I was asked whether 
there was any chance of effecting such a communication between 
Posen and Warsaw and that no monitoring of the conversation would 
be possible. 

Mr. Flood. Did Von Bock ask you that himself ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes. He ordered me to report per- 
sonally to him. Generally he gave me an order to effect a communi- 
cation in such a way that neither at Posen nor at Warsaw, nor any- 
where on the way, could anyone monitor the conversation. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes. I did. This conversation was car- 
ried on via a high-frequency generator and through an inverter device. 

Mr. Flood. What happened ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. That is a scramblino- device. 



1284 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Tell us what happened. What did you do? Who was 
on the other end ? Wliat was the conversation ? 

Lieutenant von Eicurorx. In order to do that I proceeded to a 
switchboard, to a central switchboard. I took the place normally occu- 
pied by a switchboard operator, and I saw to it, from the other end,, 
that an officer also took the place of the operator. The conversation 
subsequently took place and it was revealed that it was Field Marshal 
von Khige wlio Isad de.sired it. 

In the course of this conversation the two gentlemen exhaustively 
discussed the commissar order which, so far, had been unknown to- 
me, and which I believe had been promulgated, I believe, a day before. 
It turned out that both gentlemen were unanimous that such an order 
was absolutely incompatible with the honor of a Prussian officer. 

Mr. Flood. Who was that? Von Bock and von Kluge? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes, von Bock and von Kluge. 

The gentlemen subsequently discussed any chance to have this order 
rescinded, and they agreed upon proceeding to Hitler and seeing^ 
Hitler together with the other two field marshals on the Russian 
front, von Ruiidstedt and von List. 

Mr. Flood. Was that the end of the conversation ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. That was the end. 

Mr. Flood. Did you listen to this conversation yourself? 

Lieutenant von P^ichborn. Yes, I did. I ])ersonally listened to 
the conversation, and at the Warsaw end of the line another officer 
had been listening in. 

Mr. Fi.x)OD. You don't know whether any meeting with Hitler 
took place or what happened, do you ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. No, I know nothing about that. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever visit the staff of the 537th regiment at 
Dnieper Castle? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Inasmuch as it was my old regiment, 
I frequently happened to be there on duty as well as off duty. 

Mr. Flood. Did you, at the time you were there, from September 
on, encounter any Polish prisoners, or did you ever hear of any Polish 
prisoners being in the area ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. No, I neither heard nor saw anvthing 
of it. 

Mr. Flood. Now, there were all kinds of rumors going around the 
Katyn-Smolensk area that Polish prisoners had been there and had 
been shot by Russians. Did you ever hear any of that? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. I knew nothing at all of such rumors. 
I definitely would have remembered such rumors if I had heard 
them, because at the time of the discovery I was no longer serving 
with the unit, and for this reason, if I ever had heard anything about 
such rumors, I would not have failed to remember it. 

Mr. Flood. Were you in the Smolensk-Katyn area in April 1943 
when the Germans announced the discovery of the bodies? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. No, I was not. 

]\fr. Flood. Whou you visited your former brother officers of the 
r)3Tth iTgiment of the Dnieper Castle regimental staff, did you ever 
talk about any rumors or what the natives t^ere saying about things 
generally in the area? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1285 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. No; I certainly would remember any 
such thing if it had happened, because later on I was veiy much aston- 
ished about it. 

Mr. Flood. Did you take any walks in the area during all tlie months 
that you. were there around the Dnieper Castle and the woods ? 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever see any mounds that might have resembled 
graves, or anything of that nature, in the area of the castle? 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. Naturally, this area had been a combat 
area • 

Mr. Maciirowicz. A what? 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. A combat area, and therefore it is quite 
natural that war material was littered about the whole area, and there 
were also individual graves. 

Mr. Flood. But did you see anything resembling a large mass grave 
that might contain the bodies of thousands of men ? 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. No, I did not, because if I had done so I 
wouldn't have failed to discuss the subject. 

Mr. Flood. You heard General Oberhaeuser's testimony this morn- 
ing, for several hours this morning, and he went into great detail 
describing the Dnieper Castle, the woods, the highways, and the gen- 
eral surroundings, with a map that he sliowed the committee? You 
heard all of that? 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Is there anything you wish to add to that description, 
that you think of importance, in detail ? 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. No, I don't believe I would be able to add 
anything*. 

Mr. Flood. Because of youi- relationship and friendship with the 
officers and the men of tlie 587th regiment, because of the fact that you 
were quartered with the aruiy group headquarters only a few kilo- 
meters away, and since you visited with the regiment regularly, would 
it have been possible for this regiment or the staff members thereof at 
Dnieper Castle, non-comissioned or otherwise, to have perpetrated 
or participated in the killing of 4,000 Polish prisoners between July 
and November of 194:1 without you knowing or hearing about it in 
some way. 

Lieutenant von Eicborn. That was entirely impossible, for- the fol- 
lowing reasons : The army group was just preparing the great offensive 
against Moscow, which was supposed to terminate the war. For this 
reason this army group had under its command five, or I believe even as 
many as six, armies, and the communications officer in charge of this 
army group had to effect communications between the army group 
and those armies. The members of communications regiment 537, 
this ai-my group, as well as all other communications regiments, were 
feverishly engaged in terminating those communications before winter 
.set in. In order to make sure that all communications would be prop- 
erly in shape and properly set up prior to the commencement of the 
offeiisive, we had to receive daily reports about the accomplishment 
of work done in various work sectors. Even a single day on which 
no work would have been effected would have become conspicuous be- 
cause thus the target would not have been met in due time. Therefore. 



1286 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

it is utterly impossible that even a single company Avonld not have been 
assigned to proper work for even as little as 1 day or more days. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever see or hear of the execution of any Polish 
prisoners by Regiment 537 in that area ? 

Lieutenant von Eiciiborn. No, I did not. Naturally, I did not. 

Mr. Flood. Did reports of prisoners taken by the German units in 
that area come through your communications headquarters? 

Lieutenant von Eiciiborn. Naturally this army group dispatched, 
every night, messages to supreme headquarters. These messages were 
received and disseminated to the leaders of the various groups. 

Mr. Flood. Did the communications include lists of prisoners taken 
by the Germans ? 

Lieutenant von Eiciiborn. Well, it goes without saying that small 
numbers of prisoners such as a mere 20 or 30, that was not dissemi- 
nated. However, when a major batch of prisoners was captured such 
as, for instance, in the Vyazma barrel, when thousands of prisoners 
were taken, in such an instance notification of the number of prisoners 
was given. 

Mr. Flood. Would 4,000 be a big enough number to transmit? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Definitely so. 

Mr. Flood. Did your conununications headquarters ever transmit 
to a higher command any report as to the taking of 4,000 Polish officer 
prisoners by the Germans anywhere in the Smolensk area? 

Lieutenant von Eiciiborn. No. 

Mr. P^LOOD. Or any other Poles of any category ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. No. At least, I received notice of no 
such thing. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who was in command of the 537th regiment in 
September of 1941 when you were there? 

Lieutenant von Eiciiborn. Colonel Bedenk. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you know Colonel Ahrens ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Yes, I do ; he was his successor. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was Colonel Ahrens in that area in September 
or October of 1941 ? 

Lieutenant von Eichborn. Colonel Ahrens took over the commnivl 
of that regiment some time in November. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. Any further questions? 

Mr. Dondero. No questions. 

Chairman Madden. We wish to thank you for coming here today 
to testify. 

The committee will reconvene at 2 :30. 

(Whereupon at 1 p. m. a recess was taken until 2:30 p. m.) 

afternoon session 

(The committee reconvened at 2 p. m.) 

Chairman ]\Iadden. We come to order. 

Who is the first witness? 

Mr. PYooD. I thought, Mr. Chairman, before we take the first wit- 
ness, that it might be interesting for the committee to know that 
tomoi-row's witnesses will be Mr. Paul R. Sweet, who is an American 
and Director of the Joint Allied Commission for Analysis and Doc- 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1287 

nmentation of Captured German Files; who will be followed by Dr. 
Wilhelm Zietz, former Acting Minister of Publi"c Health and Wel- 
fare, in the former German Government, who set up and had charge of 
the arrangements for the International Commission of Scientists. Dr. 
Zietz will be followed by Dr. Florenz Orsos, distinguished Hungarian 
pathologist and authority on forensic medicine. He will be followed 
by Dr. Tramsen, a distinguished Danish pathologist; both members 
of the International Commission. They will be followed by Mr. von 
Herff, who was the forestry expert in connection with the surroundings 
at the Katyn graves. 

Chairman Madden. The first witness this afternoon will be Colonel 
Alirens. 

TESTIMONY OP FRIEDEKICH AHRENS, ST. GOARSHAUSEN, WEI- 
NICHERSTRASSE 284, GERMANY (THROUGH INTERPRETER, 
MARGA MEIER) 

Chairman Madden. Will you give your name and address to the 
reporter ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Frederich Ahrens. 

Chairman Madden. And your complete address ? 

Colonel Ahrens. St. Goarshausen-on-the-Rhine. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. counsel, will you read statement to the 
witness ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your at- 
tention to the fact that, under German law, you will not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, we wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with feS?|)iBct to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as a result of yoiir testimony. 

Chairman Madden. Do you understand that? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes ; I do. 

Chairman Madden. Will you raise your right hand, please, ;arid -be 
sworn ? ■ ' 

Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almighty, that you will, to the 
best of your knowledge, not conceal anything and tell the truth, the 
whole truth ; so help you God ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Ahrens, Friedrich. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified with the German armed 
forces ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. What was your rank and in what capacity were you 
serving on the eastern front in the Smolensk area ? 

Colonel Ahrens. When I came to Russia, in the area of Smolensk, 
I had the rank of a lieutenant colonel. 

INIr. Flood. When did you get to the Smolensk area; what date, 
year, and month? 

Colonel Ahrens. During the first days of November 1941. 

Mr. Flood. Where did you come f rom ? 

93744— 52— pt. 5 5 



1288 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Colonel Ahrens. I was commander of a signal training regiment 
in Halle-on-tlie-Saale. 

I^Ir. Flood. Is that in Saxony? 

Colonel Ahrexs. Yes; Province of Saxony. 

Mr. Flood. What was your job there ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I was commander of a training regiment, and we 
trained there special troop units for use at the battle areas. Further- 
more, the regiment provided troop units for special training and train- 
ing institutions. 

Mr. Flood. Were you a specialist in communications « 

Colonel Ahrens. I think I can say that ; yes. 

J^Ir. Flood. AVhat date did you take over your new command m the 

Smolensk area? , ■, . i r> ^ <: 

Colonel Ahrens. I arrived in Smolensk during the hrst days of 

November 1941. 

Mr. Flood. Whom did you succeed ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I was a successor of Colonel Bedenk. 

Mr. Flood. Who was your immediate superior ? 

Colonel Ahrens. My immediate superior was General Oberhaeuser. 

Mr. Flood. Were you at the hearings before the committee yester- 
day? 

Colonel Ahrens. No; I was not. 

Mr. Flood. Were you here this morning ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Flood. Did you hear the testimony of General Oberhaeuser this 
morning ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. And that was the same General Oberhaeuser who was 
your commanding officer? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any copies of any documents or the docu- 
ments themselves, or any newspaper articles or banquet menus, or 
anything that would indicate that you were at this training school 
in Saxony at the time you say you were there ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I used to live in Halle, and in Halle I lost every- 
thing I possessed; all that had fallen into Russian hands. But I 
believe that I might be able to get such information, such documents, 
from Colonel Brinkman, or from some other agency who might still 
have such documents or copies of such documents ; and it is possible 
that I will find some documents at home. I will see to it and try to 
find something. 

Ml-. Flood. Who was that colonel you mentioned? 

Colonel Ahrens. Colonel Brinkman was i)ersonnel officer with the 
Army i)ersonnel office, and he was personnel officer for the communi- 
cations troops. 

Mr. Flood. Where is he now? 

Colonel Ahrens. He is living at Hoexter-on-the-Weser. 

Mr. Flood. The committee would appreciate it very much if you 
would make every reasonable effort to obtain such original documents 
and, with the cooperation of the nearest Consul General of the United 
States of America or some proper attache of the Americans at Bonn, 
forward such documents, with a certificate attached, to this commit- 
tee at its Washington address. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1289 

Colonel Ahrens. The officer in charge of transfers to the home 
army was Colonel Hassel, and he should be able to give any informa- 
tion as to these transfers. I had seen him repeatedly during the last 
months of the summer and the early fall of 1941 in his Berlin office. 
Today he is living in Emden. 

My commanding officer with the home army was Mueller, who is 
living in southern German today, and his address is known. 

This home regiment was a rather strong regiment of about 4,800 
persons, and I can name you a sufficient number of officers and non- 
commissioned officers who could give you information as to my stay 
in Halle. 

Mr. Flood. The committee will cooperate in any way it can to ob- 
tain for you any certification of these facts, if they are true, from 
any Wehrmacht records that the Americans may have, if it is at all 
possible. 

Colonel Ahrens. Furthermore, I could give you a number of names 
of families, civilians, with whom we had social contact. My wife 
lived at Halle also, and we had social contact with these people and 
they could testify as to that. 

Mr. Flood. We are interested at this point in documentation of 
your statement. 

This, as you are aware, has significance because of the fact that 
the Soviet report claims that you were the commanding officer of a 
German regiment that executed these Poles between July and No- 
vember of 1941 ; and, of course, you say you did not get to the Katyn 
area until November of 1941. 

Colonel Ahrens. I do not only say that, but it is a fact ; and this 
fact can be seen from the following fact : I met General Oberhaeuser 
for the first time in my life in November 1941, and he will be able to 
testify as to that 

I also met Mr. Eichborn. 

Mr. Flood. General Obershaeuser testified this morning, and the 
record can speak for itself on that. 

Where did you set up your staff headquarters after you took over 
from Colonel Bedenk at Katyn? 

Colonel Ahrens. In the beginning, for about 2 weeks, I was to- 
gether with Colonel Bedenk on the staff because I wanted to get ac- 
quainted with this task in Russia, which was new to me. Tlien 
afterwards, the regiment was given to me, and I remained in the 
same quarters and accommodations where the headquarters used to 
be before. 

Mr. Flood. "\^niat regiment? 

Colonel Ahrens. This was the army group. Signal Regiment No. 
537. 

Mr. Flood. What were the duties of the regiment? 

Colonel Ahrens. The duties of the regiment were to have con- 
nections and communication, that is, telephone and teletype, between 
the headquarters of the staff and the various armies, and, furthermore, 
to have contact with the subordinate offices and with the neighbor- 
ing units. 

Mr. Flood. You say you were here when General Oberhaeuser testi- 
fied this morning. You heard him, then, go into considerable length 
and detail in describing the physical premises of the Dneiper Castle 



1290 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

and the area surrounding the Dneiper Castle and the distances, in 
kilometers, between the Dneiper Castle and the village of Katyn and 
the city of Smolensk, and General Oberhaeuser's headquarters, and 
the army groujD center headquarters. 

Colonel Ahrens. I did hear that, yes. 

Mr. Flood. Can you corroborate the testimony given by the general 
with reference to those particular facts? 

Colonel Ahrens. In general, yes, I can corroborate it. However, 
there was one slight error which General Oberhaeuser made this 
morning, that is, that the distance between the Dneiper Castle and 
the main road is not 400 meters, as he testified to this morning, but 
approximately 1 kilometer; which is slightly longer. At least, that 
is how 1 recollect it. 

Mr. Flood. That is the best of your recollection, is it ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. I would like your opinion as to the density of the woods 
or forest as between the main Smolensk highway and the Dneiper 
Castle. 

Colonel Ahrens. This forest was a forest of mixed groves. It must 
have been very dense originally, but due to the fights that took place 
in there, it was not very dense afterwards. There were a few clear- 
ings in that forest, and the road was west and the forest was west of 
the road, and the road was going from north to south. Now, west 
of this road the forest was not as dense as on the other side of the road. 

Mr. Flood. By the way, Mr. Madden, the chairman, inquired the 
other day of one of the witnesses as to the area of the entire so-called 
Katyn Forest. We never had an answer on that. Can you give any 
opinion as to the number of acres or the number of kilometers square 
covered by the entire Katyn Forest, so-called ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I have to go into some detail as to that. If you 
left Smolensk in the direction toward Vyazma, then you would meet 
the first wood approximately 8 kilometers from Smolensk. This was 
the forest of the wood of Krasny Bor. As you went on, you passed the 
little town of Gniezdowo — I spell it G-n-e-z-d-o-w-a — and then you 
have to cross a railway line, and there was a slight slope ; and left of 
that, that is, south of Smolensk, you had another forest. This forest 
extended over several kilometers along the street. 

The first part of this forest was the little forest which belonged to 
my regimental staff, and this little forest covered about one square 
kilometer, and it was fenced in. But the forest extended on for many 
kilometers. South, the forest was limited by the Dneiper, which went 
along there, and on the Dneiper, on a very steep slope at the Dneiper, 
the Dneiper Castle was situated, where our quarters were. 

Mr. Flood. Just a minute. 

Will you have the stenographer mark this as exhibit 3? 

(Tlie document referred to was marked "Exhibit 3" for identifica- 
tion and is shown on p. 1291.) 

Mr. Flood. I now sliow the witness a document containing a picture, 
which is exhibit 3, and ask him whether or not he can identify that 
picture. 

Colonel Ahrens. I am able to identify this picture. It is a picture 
of the regimental staff quarters. There is one thing very interesting 
with this picture because very close to the house there are trees. These 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1291 



trees have been planted artificially for purposes of aircraft protection, 
protection from aircraft, and if 1 see correctly, there are small trees on 
the roof, which were planted there for the same reason. 

Mr. Flood. Who planted them ? 

Colonel Ahrens. This was done on my order, and this was very im- 
portant, because time and again, I had to see that my forest, as I used 
to call this little forest, was cleared by other troop units. Thus, I was 
deprived of air protection, and, actually on the 22d of January 1942, 
I experienced a successful air attack on our house. Of five bombs that 
were dropped, three hit. 

There, after the attack, I had the trees planted on the roof, and I also 
had patrols going on to prevent further trees from being cut. 

Mr. Flood. Colonel, you seem to have a flair for detail and descrip- 
tion. I wish you would, for the record, descrijDe for us your impres- 
sion of this so-called Dnieper Castle. What did it look like inside? 
Wliat did you think of it ? Did it interest you, or were you curious 
at all ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I am glad to do that. 

Mr. Flood. Are you finished with the picture ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. We want that placed in evidence. 

(Exhibit 3 is as follows :) 

Exhibit :> 




Dnieper Castle, headquarters of Signal Regiment 537 

Colonel Ahrens. This house was situated very isolated, and there 
was no other building in a distance of about 2 to 3 kilometers. As 
I said, it was situated in very beautiful landscape, and, for Russian 
conditions, it was an extremely nice and splenclorous building, as far 
as the outer view was concerned, as well as the inside construction. 



1292 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

For instance, there were balconies all around the house, on the ground 
floor and the first floor. It contained approximately 20 rooms, that is, 
the main building contained about 20 rooms. There were two bath- 
rooms and a cinema room, and the apparatus was built in. Tw'o 
rooms were sort of halls, on the ground floor as well as on the first floor. 

liiere were buildings for functional purposes, containing a very 
large kitchen, and there were further rooms for servants. There was 
water installation and central heating. Furthermore, there was a big 
garage and a worksliop in a neighboring building, a steam bath, 
stables, and a tennis court and, furtJiermore, a rifle range. 

Mr. Flood. A rifle range. 

Colonel AiiRENs. For pistol shooting. 

As I said before, the front of the building was on a slope to the 
Dneiper, and the back part was surrounded by the forest. The part 
from the road which led from the Dnieper Castle to the main road had 
several roads through tlie forest, wliich you could use for taking walks. 
The whole building gave the impression of a real castle. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear, during the time you were there, any 
rumors or statements as to what this castle was used for during the 
Russian occupation days? 

Colonel AiiRENS. I did not hear any rumors as to that, at least not 
at first, and I was under the impression that probably during the 
times of the Czar, this must have been the summer place of some 
prince, and this prince was supposed to have had a farm in Mikolino, 
where there were still ruins of another big building. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear that the Castle had been used during 
the Army occupation days, right before the Germans got there, as an 
NK VD rest home or convalescent home ? 

Colonel Ahre'ns. As I said before, this area, this Dnieper Castle 
and the forest of about one square kilometer was fenced in, and there 
were rumors that the civilian population, before the beginning of the 
war, were not permitted to enter this area, which was guarded by 
guards. 

Mr. Flood. What is the answer to my question ? Did you ever hear, 
when you were there, that this was used as an NKTV^D rest home or 
convalescent home, the castle? Can you answer yes or no? 

Colonel Ahrens. I did not hear for what purposes it was used, but 
it was said that commissars had been there. 

Mr. Flood. You said a minute ago that a certain area within sight 
of this fenced forest was used, or the Russians or somebody said that 
it was "Verboten." Who told you that? A\niere did you hear that 
story ? 

Colonel Ahrens. My soldiers said that the civilian population had 
indicated that to them, 

Mr. Flood. How many men were on your staff at your regimental 
command headquarters at the Dnieper Castle? 

Colonel Ahrens. When I took over the regiment, there were about 
50 ; later on, half as many, about 25. 

Mr. Flood. How many noncommissioned officers and how many 
conunisioned oflicors in your regimental staff were there at the castle? 

Colonel Ahrens. In the beginning, there were three officers; later 
on, there were oidy two; and about five to six nonconnnissioned 
officers. At times there may have been seven noncommissioned 
officers. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1293 

Mr. Flood. How many individuals, noncommissioned and commis- 
sioned, at your regimental staff headquarters, carried sidearms, 
pLstols ? 

Colonel Ahrens. The noncommissioned officers carried pistols. 

Mr. Flood. How man}^ ^ 

Colonel Ahrens. Each noncommissioned officer, one pistol. 

Mr. Flood. How many noncommissioned officers were there? 

Colonel Ahrens. Five to six. 

Mr. Flood. Did the officers carry sidearms ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Also one pistol each. 

Mr. Flood. How many officers carried pistols ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Each officer, one pistol. And in the beginning, 
we were four officers and later on we were three. 

Mr. Flood. Were you responsible for your own security measures 
as the regimental commanding officer ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. What security measures did you set up after you took 
over from Colonel Bedenk? 

Colonel Ahrens. I arranged the defense of the regimental staff so 
that it could be defended with very few people. I had the firewood 
piled up around the house in such a way that it built sort of a wall. 

Mr. Flood. When you took over from Colonel Bedenk in November 
of 1941, was the area cordoned off, "Verboten," with armed guards 
all around the forest and the highway ? 

Colonel Ahrens. It was not cordoned off, nor was it forbidden to 
enter the area. 

Mr. Flood. Congressman Dondero this morning asked General 
Oberhaeuser whether or not Bedenk or you had the area posted with 
signs that anybody that trespassed there would be shot. Did you put 
up any signs of that sort; or when you got there and took over from 
Bedenk, were there any such signs up ? 

Colonel Ahrens. No. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have any other duties in the general area, 
other than being commanding officer of the communications regi- 
ment ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. I also had the task of defending the west- 
em part of Smolensk, from January 1942 on. 

Mr. Flood. What was the nature of that task ? 

Colonel Aiirens. The army group was at that time threatened 
by the Russians breaking through at Bjloj. 

If I remember correctly, the spelling is B-j-1-o-j. 

At that time the troop units stationed in the area west of Smolensk 
were taken together into a defense unit, and this defense unit was 
technically under my command. 

]VIr. Flood. Under your command for those technical reasons, did 
you conduct any maneuvers of any sort in the area? Did you con- 
duct any practice maneuvers? 

Colonel Ahrens. First of all, we built fortifications, and after they 
were finished, they were occupied just for the purpose of practic- 
ing. 

Mr. Flood. What I mean is: Did you conduct any practice man- 
euvers of your defense troops in the Katyn Forest area ? 



1294 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Colonel AiiRENS. No. I had nothing to do with these practice 
maneuvers. These practice maneuvers were carried out by the troop 
units themselves, and this was done particularly in the area north 
of Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Was there any shooting going on in the practice 
maneuvers ? 

Colonel Ahkens. No. 

Mr. Flood. During the time that you were in the Smolensk area, 
from November of 1940, when you took over, did you see any Polish 
prisoners of any category in that area ? 

Colonel Ahrens. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever receive any order from General Ober- 
haeuser or from the supreme command, or from any SS generals 
or anybody else, to kill any prisoners of war, especially Poles? 

Colonel AiiRENs. No; I did not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you hear of any shooting of Poles going on in the 
Katyn Forest area near your headquarters at any time, before you 
got there or while you were there ? 

Colonel Ahrens. No, I did not. But I certainly would have heard 
it if it had happened, 

Mr. Flood. Would it have been possible for the execution of 4,000 
Polish officers to have taken place within a few hundred meters of 
your regimental staff headquarters, day or night, during the time 
you were in command, that you would not, first, have heard about it 
or, secondly, seen it? 

Colonel Ahretsts. This is completely impossible. This was im- 
possible also for the reason that our staff headquarters was very close 
to the headquarters of the army group, and no one was doing any 
shooting there. This was just impossible. 

Mr. Flood. You had Russians on your regimental staff, did you; 
domestic workers? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes; so-called "Hivis." There were four. 

Mr. Flood. Men and women? 

Colonel Ahrens. The "Hivis" were men. They were former 
Russian prisoners of war, and they were very nice and very skilled 
in their work and very nice in their attitude towards the staff. 

Chairman Madden. I might announce at this time that we have a 
number of very important witnesses tomorrow, and the sessions to- 
morrow will start at 9 : 30. 

Mr. Fr^oD. Did you ever hear them discuss, or did they tell you 
or any of your brother officers, about the shooting of Poles in the 
area, or rumors of them? 

Colonel Ahrens. No. And they could not do that because they 
came from quite another area of Russia. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever give any orders to your Russian civilian 
workers or POW's that they were not to leave the Dnieper Castle, 
they were not to walk in the area, they were not to enter any of the 
rooms of the Dnieper Castle, unless with German escort? 

Colonel Ahrens. The answer to your first question is no. In our 
Staff Headquarters, we had extremely secret material, in particular, 
maps; and therefore the rooms in which this secret material was kept 
could not be entered by anyone else except the officers in charge. But, 
although, the cleaning of the quarters could not be done except under 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1295 

supervision, because in there were several things which they would 
not like to be seen except if someone else was around. 

Mr. Flood. In 1943, during the period of time you were there and 
in command, do you know of any convoys of trucks, above normal 
transport and above normal traffic, that were bringing in, or said to be 
bringing in, thousands of dead bodies from other areas, in 1943? 

Colonel Ahrens. No, I do not. That is impossible. 

Mr. Flood. You were present at Katyn, in the Dnieper Castle, in 
April of 1943, when the Germans made their announcement of the 
discovery of the bodies, were you not ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. How long had you been in the Dnieper Castle in the 
Katyn woods before April of 1943 ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I was in the Dnieper Castle from November 1941 
to August 1943. During the last weeks, in August 1943, I was not 
permanently in the Dnieper Castle, but partly I stayed in Vyazma, 
because the staff of the army group had been transferred back to that 
location. 

Mr. Flood. In any event, you had been in the area from November 
of 1941 until April 1943, and you had been walking around in the 
area and back and forth all that time ; had you not ? 

Colonel Ahrens. In general, I stayed over the week ends in the 
staff headquarters in Katyn ; whereas, during the week, I used to stay 
with my troop units at the fi'ont. 

Mr. Flood. Regardless of that, the fact remains that you know these 
graves were found just a few meters from your headquarters, at the 
Dnieper Castle; is not that correct? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes, of course; 600 meters away from the regi- 
mental staff headquarters. 

Mr. Flood. From November of 1941 until April 13, 1943, you had 
been living in the Dnieper Castle; you had been living in the head- 
quarters just a few hundred meters from where these graves were 
found, and you had no idea they were there; you never saw them or 
heard about them ; is that what you want to say? 

Colonel Ahrens. I never saw them, and I even could not have seen 
them because if you saw how these graves were built, you need not be 
astonished that we did not see them. It was just impossible to see 
them. 

There were many more graves, and some of them were immediately 
in front of my house door. There were about 20 or 30 graves. I had 
no idea about them and still they were there. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever see any birch crosses on any graves in the 
vicinity of where the Germans uncovered the Polish bodies, at any 
time? 

Colonel Ahrens. I saw one birch cross. I only saw one birch cross. 
This was among brushes on a little hill. The ground was rather 
uneven, and it was covered with birch trees of about four or five years 
of age. And there was brush around, and there I saw one birch cross. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever ask anybody about the birch cross? Did 
it have enough significance to you for you to ask your people what it 
was or how it got there ? 

Colonel Ahrens. In the vicinity of this area, there had been fighting 
going on, and there were quite a number of graves there. There were 



1296 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

more graves there. Partly they were graves with crosses on them and 
hehnets, so that you know there were graves. 

And then theie were also small hills, where you could assume that 
these were supposed to be graA^es, but they were a little apart from 
this area. 

But it was nothing particular to find a cross in this area ; you could 
also find it on the road or on the airfield, that some troop unit put a 
cross there for some reason. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have any reports from any of your people in 
that area, or from any of your connnand, about the graves of Polish 
officers, or big graves, or bones being found in the area where later 
the Katyn graves were discovered? Did you have any such con- 
versations? 'Did you do anything about it? 

Colonel AiiRENS. One has to diff'erentiate to distinguish between 
several rumors. There rumors about these mass shootings which 
allegedly were going on around Katyn, and then there were other 
rumors about this Kommissar who had been in this area, long, long 
ago, about 1920. And the population told about things that had hap- 
pened, about which they were not sure. 

The rumors mentioned first, the rumors as to mass shootings, I 
did not hear; but toward the middle of 1942, now and then it was 
said and remarks were made that, allegedly, while this Kommissar 
had been there long, long ago, and wdien this whole area was fenced 
in, that shootings had been going on. I did not attach too much 
significance to these rumors because I had seen the G.P.U. prisons 
in Smolensk and I was under the impression that the executions were 
carried out there. 

Mr. Flood. Had you heard that in the Katyn area the Russians 
had made a burial place of the vicinity of your headquarters for ex- 
ecuted Russian civilians? 

Colonel Ahrens. No, I had not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever talk to any Russians at any time, who 
lived around the Katyn Forest; any people who lived there? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes; and after the graves had been found. 

Mr. Flood. What was the nature of that conversation? 

Colonel Ahrens. In our area we had a Russian couple who were 
beekeepers. They had a number of beehives, and that is why they were 
there. And this couple had contact with our staff. And after the 
graves had been opened, the husband, who spoke German, told me 
that he originally lived between Katyn and Gniezdowo, and they 
were living a little off the road, and there they observed that rail- 
road cars, big cars, were coming, of ap]:)roximately 50 tons each, and 
in each of these cars there were about 200 people. 

(Note. — Refer to exhibit 78.) 

IMr. Flood. Just a minute. Wlien was that? 

Colonel Ahrens. That was in the end of April 194:3; when he told 
me that it was the end of April 1943. 

Mr. Flood. When did these Russian people tell you that the things 
they were telling you about happened? 

Colonel Ahrens. According to his statement, in March and April 
1940. 

And that these people then were put on trucks, and they were 
fettered, and then they disappeared in this area and shots were heard. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1297 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember the names of those Russian people? 

Colonel Ahrens. I had been seeing a member of my regimental staff 
a short while ago. This man's name is Hoerfle and he is living in 
Moorbach, and this man remembers the name of these Russian people. 
He told me that a short time ago. 

Mr. Flood. During the time you were in command there, did you 
ever put up in your quarters, groups of up to 25 in number, of any 
kind of special German troops who did not belong to your own regi- 
ment ? 

Colonel Ahrens. No ; never. And that could not be done ; it was 
impossible. 

Mr. Flood. General Oberhaeuser told us this morning that he had 
great respect for you and for Colonel Bedenk and that he trusted you 
both implicitly, and that he was satisfied that if there was any infor- 
mation around there dealing with graves or these matters we are 
talking about and that if either of 3'ou two knew about it you would 
have told him. You heard him say that. 

Colonel Ahrens. Of course, it is correct, because if there were 
graves, he did see them himself. 

Mr. Flood. Of course, you told us of a lot of rumors and a lot of 
reports that were being brought to you. Why did you not communi- 
cate with General Oberhaeuser and tell him of all this information 
that was being brought to you about this area ? 

Colonel Ahrens. There were not many rumors. More or less, they 
were just remarks, isolated remarks, by members of my staff, and I 
did not consider them anything else but occasional remarks. General 
Oberhaeuser and I were in war and we were occupied with our tasks 
day and night and were completely occupied with work. So we had 
no time to talk about things which were not directly to the point. 
And, besides, I considered these rumors or remarks very unimportant. 

Nevertheless, when General von Gersdorff visited me one — it was in 
the summer of 1942 ; probably in August 1942, during the afternoon— 
during an afternoon we talked about the Dnieper Castle and what 
this Dnieper Castle might have been used for before, and we also 
were talking about the rumor that a commissar had been there be- 
fore. 

And on this occasion I mentioned to General von Gersdorff — and 
I did it quite incidentally — that apparently and according to what 
the soldiers told me, some time ago, people must have been shot there. 
But this referred to the second kind of rumor I mentioned before, 
long, long before the war. 

Mr. DoNDERO. You had nothing to do with the exhumations and 
the proceedings that took place on the part of the Germans after the 
bodies had been exhumed in April of 1943 and the announcement 
was made; you were not in command of those exhumations after 
that, were you ? 

Colonel Ahrens. No; I had nothing to do with that. We only 
had to suffer from it. 

Mr. Flood. Would you be able to identify a picture of the railroad 
station at Gniezdowo if you saw it, do you think ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I assume so, yes. 

Mr. Flood. Will you have this picture marked as "Exhibit No. 4" ? 



1298 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



(The picture referred to marked for identification as "Exhibit No. 
4" follows:) 

Exhibit No. 4 




,l{iuliojul isliition at Gniozdowo, Russia 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1299 

Mr. Flood. I now sliow the witness exhibit No. 4: and ask him 
whether or not he can identify that picture ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I would not be able to identify it with certainty. 

Mr. Flood. What do you think it is ? 

Colonel Ahrens. It might be that this picture was taken at the time, 
of the station of Gniezdowo, when I was not there yet, because, as 
far as I can see, there are a few trains on the picture which I do not 
remember from the time I was there, if these trains were destroyed 
trains and not just trains passing through. 

I would not be able to identify it with certainty. 

Mr. Flood. Very well. That is all. 

Colonel Ahrens. Judging from the size, it might be the station; 
but I do not remember it correctly, although I saw it several times 
from the air. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Witness, when did you first hear of the Rus- 
sian charge in which they named you as the party responsible for 
the killing of these Polish officers? 

Colonel Ahrens. In February 1946. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That was before you testified at the Nurem- 
berg trial ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes, and I heard it over the radio in a report 
given by reporter Gustav Ohlmann. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And did you later read the entire Russian re- 
port? 

Colonel Ahrens. When, immediately after having heard the report, 
I went to see Dr. Stahmer at Nurnberg, I learned more details about 
this report from Dr. Stahmer, and later on, he also furnished me 
with excerpts from this report. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You know that in this report the Russians 
charged you were there in the months of July, August, September, 
and October 1941, do you not? 

Colonel Ahrens. I do not know that. All I know is that they 
charged me with having shot 4,200, respectively 11,000 Polish officers 
during the time between the 1st and the 20tli of September 1941. 

Mr. Machrowicz. As you testified here before, you were not there 
in those months, were you? 

Colonel Ahrens. No. 

Mr. jV'Iachrowicz. What have you done since 1946 to prove con- 
clusively that you were not there in those months ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I immediately put myself at the disposal of the 
Nuremberg court without being asked, and I even had difficulty in being 
heard because we were rejected as witnesses, and it was only due to the 
initiative of Mr. von Eichborn that we were heard and interrogated. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you made any efforts in the meantime to find 
any documents to show you were not there in those months ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I did not consider that necessary because there are 
hundreds and hundreds of people with whom I was together every day 
who could testify I was together with them in Halle. I could bring 
hundreds and hundreds of people to testify, but I do not have docu- 
ments. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you hire any local Russian women from 
that area to help in your kitchen and other similar duties ? 



1300 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Colonel Ahrens. That had already been done when I came there 
and some of tliem remained and new workers came. There was a con- 
stant change-over of these workers and I did not bother about that in 
detail. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You don't speak Russian, do you ? 

Colonel AiiRENs. No, I do not. 

JNIr. Machrowicz. And in speaking to them, you used an interpreter, 
did you not ? 

Colonel Ahrens. I never spoke with them, except for the Hiwis. 
I never talked to the female workers. 

]\Ir. Machrowicz. Didn't you have an interpreter whose first name 
was Johann who acted for you as an interpreter in talking to these 
women who were used in the kitchen ? 

Colonel Ahrens. No, I never went into the kitchen and talked to 
the women. That never happened. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, the Russians charged that you personally 
instructed at least three of these women, through your interpreter, that 
they should not come to and from work except through certain defi- 
nitely described roads and only in the company of soldiers. Did you 
ever personally issue such instructions? 

Colonel A hrens. No, I never gave such an order. I did not have 
an interpreter at all. There were some people who spoke some Rus- 
sian. It might be possible that some of them told these people that 
they should do all this and that they had told them that, but I didn't 
bother about that at all and I certainly didn't give such an order. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you have a German, whose first name was 
Gustav, who was a cook there? Do you remember that? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes, he fell in action. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was Gustav the one that handled the hiring of 
these women? 

Colonel Ahrens. No, Gustav was their superior. He had them 
under him. The hiring was done by a noncommissioned officer by the 
name of Rose who was in charge of kitchen supplies. 

Mr. Machrowicz. How did you first find out about the finding of the 
graves, and when ? 

Colonel Ahrens. First of all, I heard it through official channels, as 
was pointed out this morning by General Oberhaeuser, but, apart from 
that, I had some personal experience and by a mere accident I found 
some human bones, or rather, these bones were brought to me. This 
was in connection with the story about the wolf which I do not want 
to tell here. Now, these human bones were brought to me and I as- 
sumed that they belonged to some people who had fallen in action, and 
I informed the officer in charge of war graves that he should look into 
that. The finding of such graves was nothing unusual and, therefore, 
this was not mentioned in particular and no one made any fuss about 
that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. When was that? 

Colonel Ahrens. This was ai)proximately at the end of January 
104?>, or at the beginning of February when these graves were dug open 
by the wolf. These bones were brought to me approximately 4 weeks 
later when the snow had thawed away because these graves were 
situated toward the south, on the .southern slo]')e of one of these mass 
graves. There was a little hole there and the Iliwis found these bones, 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1301 

but the}' were brought to me about 4 weeks later. I should say toward 
the niicldle of March 1943. 

Mr. Machroavicz. Prior to that time, did you have any knowledge 
of the existence of those gravest 
Colonel Ahkexs. No, I did not. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you have a noncommissioned officer working 
under you by the name of Rose ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes, this is the one I mentioned before who was in 
charge of supplies and who also hired these Eussian women. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you ever been instructed by anyone as to 
what you should sa}^ at this hearing ? 
Colonel Ahrens. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Of course, you realize the gravity of the charges 
made against you by the Russians, do you not ^ 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes, of course, I realize that, but, of course, I 
wasn't there. I did all that in absentia. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you been charged as a party defendant of 
the Nurnberg trial? 

Colonel Ahrens. No, I have not, and after I had given my testi- 
mon}' the whole affair was dropped because it had been proved I 
arrived in Russia only in November. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Has it ever occurred .strange to you that although 
the Russians, before the Nurnberg trial, charged you directly as being 
the one guilty as the person who committed the murders, yet you were 
never named party defendant in Nurnberg ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Of course, this did seem strange to me and I did 
not know wh}' this was like that, but, of course, they had given my 
name as Arnes. 

]\Ir. Machrowicz. When they spoke of Oberstleutnant Arnes you 
knew there was only one person who could answer that description — 
that was yourself, is that not correct? 

Colonel Ahrens. I have read the charge and all this is supposed 
to have happened during the fall of 1941 but, at that time, I was not 
in this area and all that was said in the Russian report or charge hap- 
pened approximately 1 year later apparently as it was described in the 
Russian report, and the newspaper Taegliche Rundschau also gave 
this story again now and everything the Russians write there and 
which actually happened in 19-12, similar to the Avay they described it 
as having happened in 1941, and they even gave more details in this 
newspaper concerning girls, but I do not want to go into that. 
All this is said to have happened in 1941 when I was not there but 
when Colonel Bedenk was there, and, actually, everything happened 
approximately one year later. 

Mr. Machrowicz. There is one other significant matter in the Rus- 
sian document which has not been commented on, but I want you to 
tell me what you have to say about it. In this charge they claim that 
battalion 537 posed under the pretext that it was a signal battalion, but 
it actually w^asn't. Now, what have you to say about that? 

Colonel Ahrens. As far as I can recollect, the Russum report calls 
this battalion a construction battalion. Furthermore, in front of our 
regimental staff headquarters there was a flag and this was a square 
flag. Now, regimental flags were square flags, whereas the battalion 
flags were triano-ular flass. 



1302 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Machkowicz. I'll read to you paragraph 3 of the general con- 
clusions of the so-called Kussian Special Commission: "The mass 
shootings of Polish prisoners of war in the Katyn Forest were carried 
out by a German military organization hiding behind the conventional 
name of headquarters of the Five Hundred and Thirty-seventh Engi- 
neering Battalion, which was headed by Lieutenant Colonel Arnes 
and his subordinates, Lieutenant Rokst and Second Lieutenant Hodt." 

Colonel AiiRENS. It is said there we took as a disguise the name of 
an engineering battalion and I want to ask the question here : ''For 
whom did we have to use it as a disguise ?" 

Mr. Machrowicz. You will have to ask the Russians that question, 
I'm afraid. I can't answer it. 

Colonel Ahrens. I just ask this question because you read the Rus- 
sian document to me. 

In front of our staff headquarters there was our regimental flag and 
on this flag there was written : "HNR 537," Heeresgruppe Nachrichten 
Regiment, army gi'oup signal regiment 537. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I gather then that you deny that you were hiding 
behind any masquerade and that you were actually the kind of bat- 
talion you say you were? 

Colonel AiiRENS. May I have the sketch which General Oberhaeuser 
put before the committee this morning ? There you can see that. May 
I ask the General to put it at my disposal at this minute. 

(Note. — Refer to exhibit 74.) 

Mr. Flood. General Oberhaeuser had left. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That's all. 

Colonel Ahrens. May I say one thing more in addition ? 

Chairman Madden. Yes, ^o ahead. 

Colonel Ahrens. Our regimental flag showed very clearly the name 
and the troop unit of our battalion because that is what the flag was 
there for so that people who wanted to come to us could find us. 

Mr. Dondero. Did I understand you correctly and did the commit- 
tee understand you correctly that the first to find these graves were 
the wolves and wild animals ? 

Colonel Ahrens. One wolf had been digging there. That could be 
seen from a trace, but, at that time, it was winter and there was snow 
and ice there and we did not know yet that they were graves, but, after 
tlie snow had thawed, one could see that they were graves and that 
the wolf liad been digging for bones. 

Chairman Madden. You have covered the facts in your testimony 
and answered tlie questions asked and added comments very well and, 
of course, the committee realizes that you have been charged with a 
serious international crime in this report here and we are glad to give 
you an opportunity today to tell your side and to tell the facts in your 
testimony. If there is anything else that you would like to say to 
the committee, we would be glad to hear it and, if not, you can be 
excused. 

Colonel Ahrens. I have nothing to add. I just want to thank the 
committee that I was given an opportunity to give my testimony here. 

Chairman Madden. Thank you. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I want you to know that the committee was will- 
ing to give the equal opportunity to those charged with the crime 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1303 

from the Russian group, but that they apparently did not care to 
benefit from that opportunity. 

Chairman Madden. In other words, this committee has invited the 
Russian Government to appear before this committee, but they have 
rejected that invitation. 

Colonel Ahrens. I really do regret that. 

Chairman Madden. Thank you. 

We'll take a recess for about 3 minutes and then will hear from 
General Rudolph von Gersdorff, 

(Whereupon, a recess was taken.) 

Chairman Madden. General von Gersdorff. 

TESTIMONY OF RUDOLPH VON GERSDORFF (THROUGH THE 
INTERPRETER ECKHARDT VON HAHN) 

Chairman Madden. The counsel will read a statement to you. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings wiiich may arise as the result of your testimony. 

Do you understand the statement? 

General von Gersdoref. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. You will be sworn. General. 

Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almighty, that you will testify 
to your own knowledge of the facts concerning these hearings and 
to the truth, so help you God ? 

General von Gersdorff. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat is your full name ? 

General von Gersdorff. Rudolph Christof Friehardt von Gersdorff. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified with the German armed 
forces ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes, I was an officer on active service, a 
professional officer. 

Mr. Flood. What was the highest rank you reached in the armed 
services ? 

General von Gersdorff. Major General. 

Mr. Flood. What was your rank and what was the nature of your 
duty in 1941 on the so-called eastern or Russian front? 

General von Gersdorff. From April 1941, to September 1943, I 
was third general staff officer of the army group center which cor- 
responds to the position of G-2 in the United States Army. 

Mr. Flood. By G-2, you mean intelligence? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes, my main duties were to collect in- 
formation about the enemy. Besides, I was in charge of counterintel- 
ligence, propaganda, and care of the troops. 

Mr. Flood. You were, in other words, chief of intelligence of the 
army group center ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. What was your rank? 

93744— 52— pt. 5 6 



1304 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

General von Gersdorff. At first, I was a major and was then pro- 
moted to the rank of colonel subsequently. 

Mr. Flood. Then you were the Colonel von Gersdorff who has been 
referred to in the Smolensk area as cliief of intelligence between July 
and December of 11)41 ? 

General von Gersdorff. It couldn't possibly be anyone else but 
me, but, at that time, I was merely a major on the aeneral staif. 

Mr. Flood. And you were the Colonel von Gersdorff referred to in 
1943 as being chief of intelligence in the Smolensk area?" 

General von Gersdorff. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Flood. When did you move into the Smolensk army group 
center command? 

General von Gersdorff. I moved into the Smolensk area with the 
staff' of the central army group in the first days of September 1941, 
but, on a previous occasion, I had already visited this area once. 

Mr. Flood. When, and why ? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not exactly recollect tlie date, but 
it must have been late in July or early in August of the same year, 
and it was my practice to enter an area which had just been conquered 
as quickly as possible, being chief of intelligence, so as to have an op- 
portunity of interrogating important Kussian prisoners that had 
been brought in. 

Mr. Flood. How many days were you in the Smolensk area on that 
visit after the combat troops moved forward? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not recollect the exact number of days, 
but it was only a few days after the combat troops had gone forward. 

Mr. P'lood. As chief of intelligence and one of your duties being, 
as you described, tlie interrogation of combat troops taken in that area, 
on that visit to the Smolensk area did you interrogate any Polish 
prisoners of any category? 

General von Gersdorjt. During the whole Kussian campaign, I 
never saw or interrogated a Polish prisoner. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever see any dead ones ? 

General von Gersdorff. After the dead bodies of the Polish officers 
in Katyn Forest had been exhumed, I saw Polish dead for the first 
time. 

Mr. Flood. That's the only time you saw any live Polish officers, 
soldiers, or enlisted personnel, between July 1942, and the time the 
bodies were exhumed at Katyn in April 1943? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes; they were the first and only Poles, 
dead ones in this case, that I ever saw during the period mentioned. 

Mr. Flood. During that period, did you ever hear from any of your 
widespread sources of intelligence in the Smolensk area that there 
were Polish prisoners, officers or enlisted personnel, hiding in the 
vroods or hiding in the Russian villages? 

(jeneral von Gersdorff. No, never. 

Mr. I^'lood. During the same period of time did you ever, as chief 
of intelligence, direct any of your personnel to conduct regular round- 
ups and searches for Polish prisoners in the area? 

General von Gersdorff. No. 

]\fr. Flood. Would anybody else have been able to issue such orders 
and conduct such intelligence operations without your knowledge or 
a})proval ? 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1305 

General von Gersdorff. The only possibility would have been that 
the so-called Einsatzoruppen of the SD who were not under the juris- 
diction of the Central Army Group could liave performed such duties, 
but, in view of the fact that the then chief of the police units was an 
officer by the name of Nebe who, already since 1938, secretly belonged 
to the resistance movement, I am certain that he would never have 
engaged in any such action without previously having contacted me 
about that. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat resistance movement ? 

General von Gersdorff. The German resistance movement against 
Adolf Hitler and against National Socialism. 

Mr. Flood. Were you a member of the movement ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Flod. You mentioned something about the Einsatzgruppen. 
Were there Einsatzgi-uppen or Einsatzkommandos in the area of 
Smolensk when you moved in ? 

General von Gersdorff. In every area of an army group there were 
certain units of the so-called Einsatzgruppen which were under the 
direct order of higher SS and police chiefs. This high-ranking SS 
or police officer was under the direct command of Heinrich Himmler. 
His only instructions consisted in making contact with the staff of 
the army group. The army group, however, had the possibility of 
demanding that such Einsatzgruppen should be withdrawn in the 
case of these Einsatzgruppen hampering the strategical and tactical 
movements of the combat trops. We made very wide use of this op- 
portunity of getting rid of these Einsatzgi-uppen and, particularly 
within the area of the Four Army under Field Marshal von Kluge, 
these Einsatzgruppen were practically always far in the rear. Nebe 
always supported this action of ours. On the other hand, of course, 
he had to see that his Einsatzgruppen were also commissioned with 
some tasks so as not to make too bad an impression upon his higher 
command. 

Mr. Flood. Did your outfit get rid of the Einsatzgruppen in your 
area at the time we are speaking about ? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not quite clearly recollect whether at 
that time the Einsatzgruppen which was attached to the Fourth Army 
was in action or not. I believe that at the time when the Fourth Army 
took Smolensk, this Einsatzgruppen was not actually fighting in the 
front line but I have no clear recollection of that. 

Mr. Flood. Even if they were, in view of the nature of the com- 
manding officer and his liaison with the Wehrmacht, would it have 
been possible for Himmler to have ordered the commander of that 
Einsatzgruppe to have committed a murder at Katyn of 4,000 troops 
without your knowing about it ? 

General von Gi:RSDORrF. This is utterly impossible, particularly in 
the spot where the murders actually took place and where the graves 
were subsequently found in view of the fact that this spot is located 
so near the highway leading from Vitebsk to Smolensk that it would 
have been absolutely impossible to kill 4,000 people without lots of 
people passing along the highway noticing it. 

Mr. Flood. It would have been impossible for an order coming from 
the supreme command to the army group having to do with the killing 



1306 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

of Polish prisoners, particularly officers, without you, as chief of in- 
telligence, having heard about it, isn't that so? 

General von Gersdortf. No ; because such an order would have been 
transmitted to my command immediately and I would have known 
about it immediately, too. 

Mr. Flood. Was any such order transmitted to your command or 
from a supreme command to an army group during the period of 
service you had in the Katyn-Smolensk area ? 

General von Gersdorff. No, never. 

Mr. Flood. You heard General Oberhaeuser testify this morning, 
did you not? 

General von Gersdokff. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. And you heard Colonel Ahrens testify this afternoon, 
did you not ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Now, directing your attention to that part of the testi- 
mony of those two officers having to do with the description of the 
Dnieper Castle and the area surrounding the castle, do you wish to 
add anything, any details, to what they said in that description? 

General von Gersdorff. I fully agree with the statements of Gen- 
eral Oberhaeuser and Colonel Alirens about the Dnieper Castle, but I 
would like to add the following : In the vicinity of Gniezdowo, there 
were prehistoric Russian cairns, old prehistoric tombs in caves. They 
were overgrown with shrubs and heavily so. They were actually in 
that area, so that was the reason why, when the graves of the Polish 
officers were discovered, we did not call it the murders of Gniezdowo, 
but to distinguish it from these old prehistoric tombs of Gniezdowo, 
we called it the murders of Katyn, so as not to get these two things 
mixed up. 

Mr. Flood. Then these graves were actually closer to Gniezdowo 
than they were to the village of Katyn ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. Flood. Who finally conferred the title of the Katyn Massacre 
on this thing ? Did you do that ? 

General von Gersdorff. This was done by my unit with the chief 
of our staff agreeing to it. 

Mr. Flood. How did you first hear the story of Katyn ? 

General von Gersdorff. My units contained a small command of 
military field police of about 8 to 10 men. In charge of this small 
police unit was the Field Police Secretary Voss. The duty of this field 
police unit consisted of security measures so as to guard security of the 
field marshal and of the staff headquarters. Therefore, I had in- 
structed Voss to watch carefully over the surroundings of these staff 
headquarters so as to make sure that no strangers, that is, people who 
did not belong there, should enter the area. 

Mr. Flood." Who was Voss? 

General von Gersdorff. Voss was in charge of the small unit of 
military field police. He was a so-called military field police secre- 
tary, and his duties corresponded to the rank of lieutenant. Owing to 
his duties, Voss was in close contact with the population of the sur- 
roundings of our staff headquarters. One day Voss came to me and 
made the following report. 

Mr. Flood. Just a moment. 

When, if you remember? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1307 



General von Gersdorff. I do not recollect the exact date, but it 
must have been in February 1943. 

Mr. Flood. All right, go ahead. 

General von Gersdorff. Voss reported to me that Polish auxiliary 
volunteers who belonged to several infantry divisions which were 
marching up to the front line and who had taken up temporary quar- 
ters in Gniezdowo and the surroundings, had made inquiries on be- 
half of Poles in Poland for possible Polish prisoners in that area. 

Mr. Flood. Will you mark this picture as exhibit 5 ? 

(The document referred to was marked as "Frankfurt, Exhibit No. 
5," and is as follows:) 

Exhibit 5 




Military Field Police Secretary Voss (center) talking to two other German officers. 

Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit 5 and ask you whether or not 
you can identify the German officers on that picture ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes. 

The one in the center is Military Field Police Secretary Voss. 
The one on the left is a lieutenant whom I recognize, but I do not 
recollect his name. The one on the right resembles Professor Buhtz. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear of a Lieutenant Slovenczik ? 

General von Gersdorff. I recognize the name now and I presume 
that he is the third man on this photograph which was just shown 
me. He belonged to a propaganda unit which was under the command 
of General Schenkendorn, commanding officer of the rear area. 

Mr. Flood. Who was the immediate superior commander of Slo- 
venczik at Smolensk? 

General von Gersdorff. Major Kotts, the commanding officer of this 
propaganda unit. 



1308 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Will you examine exhibit 5 again, in view of this con- 
versation, and direct your attention to the officer you have not yet 
identified, and tell us whether or not that could be Slovenczik? 

General von Gersdorff. I believe that Slovenczik is the officer on 
the left side of the pliotograph. 

Mr. P'lood. Very well. What did Voss have to say to you? 

General von Gersdorff. Voss reported to me that Russian inhab- 
itants of Gniezdowo had told the previously mentioned Polish aux- 
iliary volunteers that in spring, 1940, large transports of Polish 
prisoners had arrived by full train-loads at Gniezdowo station. 
They clearly recognized them as Poles from their uniforms and also 
heard them speaking Polish to each other. Then, these Poles were 
taken away in large black prison vans from tlie station and they 
were taken to this forest which was located approximately 1 kilo- 
meter from the station and disapj^eared. The forest and the so- 
called Dnieper Castle were at that time cordoned off by guards and 
nobody could approach there. 

Mr. Flood. I show you exhibit 3 and ask you if you can identify it. 

General von Gersdorff. The picture shows the so-called Dnieper 
Castle where I was a visitor of Colonel Ahrens on two occasions. It 
was located only a few hundred meters away from the graves. 

Mr. Flood. I show you exhibit 4 and ask you if you can identify 
that. 

General von Gersdorff. Yes; I clearly recognize this picture. 
It shows the crossing point of the railroad line at Gniezdowo sta- 
tion with the highway leading from Vitebsk to Smolensk. The road 
at that spot has an S-shaped bend. 

Mr. Flood. We'll offer exhibit 4. 

After you cordoned off Dnieper Castle, after you had this informa- 
tion from Voss, whom did you report to, if anybody ? 

General von Gersdorff. I passed on this report to the 1-A; that 
is, tlie first general staff officer, and also to the chief of staff, and 
was instructed to investigate this matter further. 

Mr. Flood. What is the opposite number of the German 1-A on 
the table of organization? 

General von Gersdorff. I believe, G-3. 

Mr. Flood. Go ahead. 

General von Gersdorff. I thereupon instructed Voss to interrogate 
these Russian inhabitants of Gniezdowo under oath. The interro- 
gations confirmed everything we had heard about these Polish pris- 
oners. 

Mr. Flood. Did you talk to any Russian peasants yourself? 

General von Gersdorff. No; I did not talk to any because I do 
not know Russian, but, later on, I did speak to some of the Russian 
Avorkers, with the help of an interpreter wlio were engaged upon the 
exhumation work. 

Afr. Flood. Wliat did you talk to tliem about? 

(joneral von Gersdorff. I merely rei)oated the questions that they 
had already been asked during the first interrcrgatious and, in addi- 
tion, asked them whether they could give me more interesting details 
in the matter. 

Mr. Flood. What instructions did you get from your superiors, if 
any, Avith reference to the exhumations of these bodies ^ 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1309 

General von Gersdorff. As it became clear from tlie interrogation 
of these Russian civilians that something had happened there, orders 
came from above, from higher quarters, to investigate this matter 
thoroughly and to dig in the forest. At that time, v^e had no idea yet 
that it was matter of such a dreadfully large number of dead bodies. 
Professor Buhtz of Breslau University was put in charge of the ex- 
humations. He belonged to the chief quartermaster's division and 
had to investigate any infringements of the Hague Convention. 

Mr. Flood. Was he attached to the headquarters at Smolensk ^ 

General vox Gersdorff. The division of the chief qua^rtermaster 
was located or billeted in the city of Smolensk proper, 

Mr. Flood. Then I gather you were in charge in the Katyn Forest 
area of the exhumations in a general way ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; that is correct. 

]Mr. Flood. Whom did you designate in charge of security or in 
charge of the guard you told us about around the graves — that area? 

General von Gersdorff. In the beginning, the previously mentioned 
military field police unit took up the security duty. Afterwards, a 
company of Polish volunteers took up guard duty and mounted guard 
near the graves. 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember the name of the German officer you 
designated in charge? 

General von Gersdorff. No ; I do not recollect the name. 

Mr. Flood. When did the exhumations, the diggings, start, if you 
remember ? 

General von Gersdorff. As far as I recollect, in March 1943. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall the Polish Red Cross being connected 
in any way with the exhumations? 

General von Gersdorff. The Polish Red Cross was advised at once 
and requested to send delegates to Katyn who would supervise and 
arrange the exhumations. In addition, the International Red Cross in 
Geneva was also advised, but I presume this was done via the Foreign 
Office in Berlin. 

Mr. Flood. When did tlie exhumations stop ? 

General von Gersdorff. The exliumations stopped in June or July 
at the height of the summer, and this was done on the advice of military 
physicians which we had there, who feared that the terrible stench of 
the dead bodies would have some noxioup effects on the health of the 
men engaged in the task. 

Mr. Flood. Did you visit tlie graves during the course of the exhu- 
mations between — when did you say they started? 

General von Gersdorff. In jNIarch. 

Mr. Flood. In March. And in the summer, when they were finished, 
did you visit the area? 

General von Gersdorff. I visited the graves three or four times, pos- 
sibly more often. 

Mr. Flood. Were visiting delegations received in the area during 
the course of the exhumations? 

General von Gersdorff. The INIinistry of Propaganda in Berlin had 
very many, or a large number of commissions come to the graves to 
see them. I welcomed a delegation of journalists to the graves, and 
also a delegation of experts of judicial medicine. This latter commis- 
sion consisted of members from all the countries which could be reached 



1310 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

from Germany at that time. Furthermore, commissions of American, 
British, French, and Polish prisoners of war also came to see the 
graves. I also saw the Archdeacon of Krakow, Dr. Yazinski. 

Mr. Flood. Any other delegations of any kind ? 

General von Gersdortf, There was also a great number of German 
delegations, many of them from troop units, but also delegations that 
came directly from Germany. 

Mr. Flood. Were any prisoner of war visitors received at the Katyn 
grave during the exhumation ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes, in the first place, Polish officers, but 
they were also British and French officers, and, as far as I recollect, 
also several American officers. 

Mr. Flood. Would you say that during the 4 months during which 
the exhumations were going on there were hundreds or thousands of 
visitors of all kinds received in the area ? 

General von Gersdorff. I would say, rather, thousands. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see the bodies yourself during the exhumation? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Will you describe for us, briefly, what you saw as the 
bodies were exhumed? 

General von Gersdorff. In the first place, the mass grave was 
opened, which was approximately 10 meters long and 20 meters wide, 
and very deep. In this grave the dead bodies of the Polish officers were 
stacked in 12 layers on top of each other. Then later on a second grave 
was opened, which was not quite as large as the first one, but in that 
grave all the dead bodias were fettered. They had their hands tied 
up. It may be assumed that in that case these Polish prisoners had 
perhaps tried to resist at the very last moment. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see bodies with their hands tied behind their 
back yourself? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. What were they tied with ? 

General von Gersdorff. As far as I recollect, it was either wire or 
cord, but they were tied up, fettered, in a typically Russian manner. 

Mr. Flood. Could it have been wire in some cases and cord in others? 

General von Gersdorff. That I do not recollect any more. 

Mr. Flood. Will you demonstrate on the interpreter the manner in 
which those hands and arms were tied behind their backs, the backs 
of the corpses ? 

General von Gersdorff. Not exactly, but approximately. 

Mr. Flood. Well, stand up and do the best you can, as you best 
recollect. 

[The witness indicated.] 

Mr. Flood. The witness demonstrates on the interpreter the cross- 
ing of the left arm and the right arm at the wrists at about the small 
of the black. 

And they were tied in that manner ; is that it ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. In what way were they tied, as you best recollect ? Will 
you point out? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not remember the details. Many of 
the dead bodies had sacks or tunics pulled over their heads, and these 
sacks or tunics were tied fast around the waist. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1311 

Mr. Flood. You saw that yourself ? 

General von Gersdortf. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Did you observe any of the corpses with sawdust in, 
the mouths? 

General von Gersdortf. Yes. I remember now that Professor 
Buhtz established this fact in one or a few cases. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see the International Commission conducting 
post mortems or autopsies there at the grave ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes. I welcomed them personally and 
also spoke to them. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see post mortems or autopsies being performed 
upon the bodies of several hundred of these dead officers by German 
commissions by Dr. Buhtz and two other Germans ? 

General von Gersdorff. On that occasion I was not present per- 
sonally, but I saw myself foreign physicians carrying out autopsies. 

Mr. Flood. Now, the committee has a great deal of detailed evi- 
dence, scientific and from observation of scientists and laymen who 
visited the graves at Katyn, having to do with the depth of the graves, 
the surroundings, when the graves were opened, and the detailed 
conditions of the decomposed state of the corpses and the conditions 
of the uniforms, but we would like you to add, because of your impor- 
tant position in the area, your comments briefly on the condition of 
the corpses and uniforms or documents found there, if any. 

General von Gersdorff. The dead bodies were still being held 
together by the uniforms, but the state of decay was already veiy 
far advanced, although the soil in which the bodies were buried was 
very sandy. All the corpses had at least one or two bullet holes where 
the bullets had left the skull, which were either in the forehead or 
near the eyes. 

Mr. Flood. Will you demonstrate again on the interpreter the 
point of entry and the point of exit of the bullet ? 

(The witness indicated.) 

Mr. Flood. The witness indicates with his finger on the interpreter 
the point of entry as being at about the base of the skull and the. 
neck line, and the point of exit as being in the forehead between the 
hairline and the eyebrow. 

General von Gersdorff. Almost every dead body had an amulet, 
or these little crosses — what do you call them ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Crosses? 

Mr. Flood. Scapular or crucifix. 

General von Gersdorff. Scapular ; yes. It was under their under- 
wear, on their chests. Otherwise no real valuables were found on 
them. 

Mr. Flood. I suppose you are aware that many Poles are Roman 
Catholic? 

General von Gersdorff. I would assume that practically all of them 
were Roman Catholic. 

Mr. Flood. And one of the practices of Roman Catholics is the 
wearing of a scapular or crucifix around the neck? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes. These crucifixes and other items had 
not been removed from the dead bodies, probably, because they had 
been wearing them under their shirts. 



1312 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. And would only be of little A'alue to whoever renioNed 
them ? 

General von Gersdorff. I beg your pardon? 

Mr. Flood. And probably would be of little value to whoever was 
removing things from the bodies at the time? 

General von Gersdorff. Only in the case of the dead bodies of two 
generals, evidently one gold cigarette case and a golden ring were 
found. On the other hand, a large number of documents were found 
on all the other bodies. These documents consisted of diaries, note- 
books, and letters from their next of kin or friends. In addition to 
that, there were also many photographs. They also had large amounts 
of paper bank notes, Polish zloty, which at that time had been taken 
out of circulation. 

Mr. Flood. I am sure the general is aware that the date of the 
burial of these bodies is so material as to be, perhaps, controlling in 
determining the guilt of the parties responsible for the murder. 

General aon Gersdorff. Yes; that is quite clear to me. 

Mr. Flood. In view of that situation, or that possibility. General, 
do you have any observations to make with reference to the latest 
date found on any documents on these bodies that you are now 
describing ? 

General von Gersdoref. I saw very many of these documents my- 
self — that is, the originals. The most interesting items w^ere diaries 
which had been written in great detail. I remember a diary of one 
Polish officer who related the events as follows : He relates, at first, 
how' they were being kept in a Russian POW camp located at Kozielsk. 
He further relates how, in March 1940, they were taken away in rail- 
road cars. 

When they left they had not the slightest idea as to where thev vrere 
going. How^ever, hopes were rising high when they ascertained that 
they were traveling in a westward direction. They could also estab- 
lish that they were passing through the town of Roslavl, and that 
they continued in the direction of Smolensk. They w^rote down in 
their diaries that they were now hoping to be returning to their Polish 
homeland. Then there were further entries that their transport trains 
had certainly stopped at a small station outside Smolensk. Evidently 
this was the station of Gniezdowo. 

Mr. Flood. General, do you remember the name of the first station 
after you leave Smolensk in that direction? What is the name of the 
first station after you leave Smolensk? 

General von Gersdorff. I never used the railroad in those days. 
I believe that the first station was Gniezdowo, but I am not certain 
about it. 

. Mr. Flood. Now I i-eturn to my question and I ask you again. Gen- 
eral, with ])articular reference to the dates on tlie documents, papers, 
and so on, what was the latest date that you observed on any of these 
papers or documents? 

General von Gersdorff. All the entries in the diaries ceased at the 
end of March or, at the latest, the beginning of April 1940. Like- 
wise, the verv numerous letters and i^ostcards w'hich were found on 
the dead bodies, and which came from their relatives and friends in 
Polnnd, M-ere all dated from November- December 1!).')0 and January 
1940. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1313 

Mr. Flood. What was done with the documents by the Germans 
after they took them from the bodies? 

General von Gersdorff. The documents had first to be treated chem- 
ically, because they were partl}^ soaked in • 

Mr. Flood (interposino). Body fluid? 

General von Gersdorff. Body fluid, yes. They were then exhib- 
ited in glass cases on the porch of the building where this military 
field police unit was billeted. 

Mr. Flood. "Were records kept of the documents with reference to 
each body, if you know ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes. Every dead body was identified, and 
it was entered what had been found on the body. 

Mr. Flood. Did each body have a number ? 

General von Gersdorff. As far as I can remember ; yes. 

Mr. Flood, Did the envelope containing the documents taken from 
that body have a number corresponding to the number of the body 
from which they were taken ? 

General von Gersdorff. I presume that that was so, but I have no 
knowledge of these details. I would think, however, that Mr. Pf eiffer 
would be able to say more about these details. 

Mr. Flood. Who is Pfeiffer? 

General von Gersdorff. He was a member of the military police 
unit of Voss. 

Mr. Flood. What did the Germans do with all the documents they 
had collected in the late summer of 1943 after they had closed up the 
grave ? 

General von Gersdorff. As far as I remember, all these items, docu- 
ments, and other things were packed into chests and put on the way to 
Germany, but I do not know much about that. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know a Dr. Naville, a distinguished Swiss pa- 
thologist and an authority on forensic medicine? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes : I met Dr. Naville right at the graves 
in Katyn, and also sat next to him at a dinner party which was given 
for these international groups by the Center Army group. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have a conversation with Dr. Naville ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; I had long discussions with him. 

Mr. Flood. What language did you talk in? 

General von Gersdorff. We spoke German and French. 

Mr. Flood. What was the gist of the subject of the conversation? 

General von Gersdorff. At that time I had the impression that Dr. 
Naville was absolutely convinced that only the Russians could have 
committed this crime. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know or remember the date of the dinner given 
by the Germans to the visiting Commission? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not recollect the date of the dinner, 
but I remember that it was on an extremely hot day. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know a Professor Markhov, the Bulgarian mem- 
ber of the Commission? 

General von Gersdorff. I remember Dr. Markhov, and I also re- 
member that he was the Bulgarian member of this Commission. 

Mr. Fi^ooD. Was he at Dnieper? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes; he was. 

Mr. Flood. Did vou have a conversation with him ? 



1314 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; I also had a conversation with him. 

INIr. Flood. In what lano;nao;e? 

General vox Gersdorff. There were very many representatives of 
Slav nations and I do not quite recollect, but I believe that Dr. Markhov 
knew some German or French. 

]VIr. Flood. What did Markhov have to say, if anything? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not recollect the details of our con- 
versation, but I recollect this much, that Dr. Markhov, too, was firmly 
convinced that the Russians were responsible for this crime. 

Mr. Flood. You will be interested to know that on the 5th of March, 
in Sofia, Professor Markhov outlined his experiences as a member of 
the German International Medical Commission. He says that he had 
been forcibly included in the Commission, that he had been completely 
isolated from the local population while at Katyn; he recants any 
statement he made, and says the Germans did the killing. "What do 
you have to say about that ? 

General von Gersdorff. How far single members of the Commis- 
sion had come of their own free will or otherwise I am not in a position 
to say, but I could hardly imagine that the Swiss representative would 
have come against his will. In Smolensk itself, from the moment of 
the arrival of the Commission, I can confirm that the gentlemen of 
this Commission had any liberty they could wish for to move and do 
what they liked. They were permitted to talk to anyone, Russian or 
no Russian, that they wanted to talk to. They could go wherever they 
wanted to go, and they could engage in any activity that they felt like 
engaging in. 

Mr. Flood. Did you receive or give any orders which would in any 
way have curtailed the activity of the International Commission of 
Scientists at Katyn, or any of its individual members? 

General von Gersdorff. No. On the contrary, I issued special 
orders that the free movement and liberty of these gentlemen should 
be safeguarded at all costs and that they should be given the oppor- 
tunity of going where they wanted to go and doing what they wanted 
to do without any hindrance, and that they should even be assisted. 

As an example, I recollect that some of these international delegates 
left the graves and drove back to Smolensk earlier than others. They 
were probably tired or something, and went back earlier, while others 
still remained longer at the graves and carried on their investigations. 

Mr. Flood. Professor Markhov, separate and distinct from any 
writing that he made or any protocol that he may have signed about 
the investigation in addition, at the dinner party, told you, in a social 
conversation, that he felt that the crime at Katyn had been committed 
by the Russians, is that it? 

General von Gersdorff. As far as I recollect, Dr. Markhov was sit- 
ting at my left side during the dinner, and we did actually discuss this 
matter, and Dr. Markhov confirmed to me that in his opinion the Rus- 
sians had committed the crime. 

Mr. Flood. I now hand to the stenographer, to be marked as "Ex- 
hibit!? 7, 8, 9, and 10," four photographs. 

(Due to incorrect numbering, there is no exhibit 6.) 

(The photographs referred to above were marked "Frankfurt Ex- 
hibits 7, 8, 9, and 10," and are shown on pp. i;U.5-L3l7.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 7 and ask him 
whether or not he can identify any of the three persons shown thereon 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1315 



examining one of the corpses, two in military uniform, and the third 
person in civilian clothes. 

First, who is the civilian, if you know ? 

General von Gersdorff. I clearly recollect the civilian. That was 
a Hungarian, Professor Orsos, who was a member of the International 
Delegation. 

Mr. Flood. How do you spell Orsos ? 

General von Gersdorff. 0-r-s-o-s. As far as I remember, the man- 
in uniform is the Finnish delegate. The third man in uniform 
appears to be a medical corps soldier who is just busy typing out the 
report which Professor Orsos, who knew German very well, was 
dictating. 

Mr. Flood. We will offer exhibit No. 7 in evidence. 

(Exhibit 7 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 7 




J'KpIc^sDI ( >l- 



lliiii^.ii \ ( \ mil II 1114 < 111 ii'^e .it (Jt 1 III III 1 \li II 111 I lion. 



Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit No. 8, which depicts a group 
of two or three dozen civilians talking to a German officer in uniform. 
Who was the officer, if you know, and can you identify the nature of 
the group of civilians ? 

General von Gersdorff. The officer is the lieutenant of this propa- 
ganda unit, with a Polish name, and the civilians of the picture, as 
far as I remember, are members of a delegation of journalists from 
neutral and other countries. 



1316 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. We will offer exhibit No. 8 in evidence. 
(Elxhibit 8 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 8 





German oUicei tliscusssiiiK Kaiyu wilu ur-legation of journalists. 

I now show the witness exhibit No. 9 and ask him if he can identify 
the military uniforms present, what countries they represent, and 
the civilian, if he can. 

(Exhibit 9 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 9 




Ainericaii and nrltish prisoners of war talking to a Russian native. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1317 



(leneral von Gersdorff. The officers are American and British 
prisoners of war. The officer in the center is a British major, who 
liad declared himself to be the leader of his delegation, or the chief 
of the delegation. When he arrived he told us that he alone would 
comment on the whole matter, and that the other officers present 
did not wish to make any comments. The civilian is a Russian 
worker, an inhabitant of Gniezdowo, who was working on the exhuma- 
tions, and, as far as I recollect, also made statements about the murder 
having happened, and upon his statements investigations were started 
and the graves were discovered. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know or recall. General, whether or not the 
visiting American and British officer POW's were permitted to talk 
to those Russians without German interference ? 

General von Gorsdorff. This would have been quite possible, they 
could have talked to the Russian civilians because these officers were 
absolutely free, there were not even guards with them. But, in any 
case, such a conversation with the Russian civilians would have 
depended upon the presence of an interpreter, in view of the fact 
that the officers did not know Russian. 

Mr. Flood. General, you may be interested to know that the two 
American officers, now colonels, have already testified before this com- 
mittee and have said they were permitted to talk to the Russians 
present without interference from the Germans. 

I now show the witness exhibit No. 10 and ask him whether or not 
he can identify the persons on that picture. 

(Exhibit No. 10 is as follows:) 

Exhibit No. 10 • 




Russian worker with Polisli Red Cross Director Skarzynskl and others. 



1318 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

General von Gersdorff. I recognize, on this picture, the Polish 
Archdeacon Yazinski in his ecclesiastical garb; and the tall civilian 
J do not remember. In the foregi^ound there is one of the Russian 
workers, and at the far right of the picture the head of Voss is visible. 

Mr. Flood. General, do you recall a visit by the executive secretary 
or director of the Polish Red Cross from Warsaw named Skarzynski? 

General von Gersdorff. No; I do not recollect this visit, because 
I was away very often on inspection and had to go around a lot. 

Chairman Madden. Do you have any questions, Mr. Dondero? 

Mr. Dondero. I have one question. 

General, you testified that you noticed that the bodies in one of the 
graves had their hands tied behind them, either with wire or with cord. 
Was that cord round or flat ? 

General von Gersdorff. I do not quite recollect that, but I believe 
that they were flat. 

Mr. Dondero. You might be interested to know that the record 
already shows that a part of that cord has been presented to this 
committee and received in evidence. It was flat. 

Chairman Madden. Are there any further questions? 

General, you read the Russian report, did you not, regarding the 
Russian investigation ? 

General von Gersdorff. I did not read this report very carefully ; 
1 just went through it quickly. But I know more or less what it 
contained. 

Chairman Madden. Were you present in the room this afternoon 
when several members of the committee asked the preceding witnesses 
regarding certain phases of the Russian report ? 

General von Gersdorff. Yes ; I was present. 

Chairman Madden. Wliat comment would you have to make re- 
garding some of the conclusions reached in the Russian report? 

General von Gersdorff. It appears to me quite impossible that, as 
from the date of the German occupation of that territory or of that 
area, a crime of such magnitude could have been committed in the 
immediate vicinity of the main supply road of the army group, and 
likewise, in the immediate vicinity of the army group proper. This 
highway carried an extremely heavy supply traffic day and night. 
And even in the case of SS troops or some other unit carrying out 
sucli an action, it would at all events have come to our knowledge. 

Apart from the previously stated facts, the documents recovered 
fi'om the bodies, the expert advice given by physicians is so con- 
vincing that there. should not be any doubt as to who committed 
the crime. 

Chairman Madden. General, would you have anything else that 
you would like to add to Avhat you have already said? 

General von Gersdorff. I have no more to say. 

Chairman Madden. We wish to thank you for testifying here to- 
day. 

Mr. Albert Pfeiffer. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1319 

TESTIMONY OF ALBERT PFEIFFER, BEHAMPTSTRASSE, MUNICH, 

GERMANY 

Chairman Madden. Just give the interpreter your name. 

Mr. Ffeiffer. Albert Pfeiffer. 

Chairman Madden. And your address. 

Mr. Pfeiefer. Munich; Behamptstrasse. 

Mr. Madden. Mr. Pfeiffer, I will read a statement to you. 

Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your attention to the 
fact that, under German law, you will not be liable for slander or 
libel, either in criminal or civil proceedings, for anything that you 
may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the same 
time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of 
the United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any 
responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander proceed- 
ings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that ? 

IMr. Pfeiffer. I understand. 

Chairman Madden. Now will you just stand and be sworn? 

Do you swear, by God the Almighty, that you will, according to 
your best knowledge, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth ; so help you God ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. Will you state your name ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer, Albert Pfeiffer. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever a member of the German armed forces ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever serving in that capacity on the eastern 
or Russian front? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. When did you arrive in the Smolensk area ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. At the end of October or at the beginning of Novem- 
ber 1942. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear of Lieutenant Voss ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Were you with his unit ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes; for 2 years. 

Mr. Flood. What were the duties of the unit and what were your 
duties in it? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The unit had security duties in the vicinity or the 
surroundings of the staff headquarters of the center army group and 
to watch over the civilians in that area, and they also had the care of 
the civilians who were working in the different German units and 
agencies. 

Mr. Flood. What do you mean by "watch over" the civilians in the 
area ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Our activities were confined to patroling the near 
vicinity of the staff headquarters and see that no strangers would como 
into this area; that those pepole who lived there and who had been 
registered were actually there. 

Mr. Flood. How many men were in Lieutenant Voss' unit? 

93744— 52— pt. 



1320 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Our unit had been split up into two halves. The 
one to which 1 belonged was in Gluschtschenki. "VVe nmnbered five 
and the others that went to Gniezdowo numbered from five to seven. 

Mr. Flood. Do you speak Russian ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes. I was employed as an interpreter. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have any conversations with any of the Russians 
in the area of Katyn ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes; with the civilians of Gluschtschenki and the 
near vicinity of the staff headquarters, but not with those of Katyn 
because I only went to Katyn once. 

Air. Flood. When did you first hear about Katj'n? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The first time I lieard anything about Katyn was in 
February 1943 when I was confined to the infirmary. 

Mr. Flood. Where? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The infirmary was with the staff headquarters. My 
buddy, Roeske, who was also an interpreter, came to me and told 
me that investigations would have to be made after some Poles who had 
disappeared. 

Mr. Flood. Were you identified with the exhumations in any way ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes; from the very first day. 

Mr. Flood. What was your assignment, and who assigned you to it ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I had been detailed for this duty by Lieutenant Voss 
in the capacity of interpreter, and it was my duty to explain to the 
Russian civilian w^orkers, who had been brought to that spot, to ex- 
plain to them what kind of work they had to do there and that now 
they had to go about the exhumation. 

INIr. Flood. Weie ^^ou there the first day that the digging started? 
Were you present when the first work was begun ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes ; when the first spade entered the ground I was 
present. 

Mr. Flood. Had you ever been in that immediate vicinity at any 
other time before that first day ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Not in the area. 

Mr. Flood. Will you describe the appeai-ance of the grave and its 
immediate surroundings within a very few feet before the first spade 
was put into the ground ? 

JNIr. Pfeiffer. It was a clearing in the forest, and the mound of 
earth was up to a heiglit of 3 feet, overgrown with small fir trees and 
heather and bushes and scrub. 

Mr. Flood. Indicate with your hands, from the floor, the height of 
the trees you saw on this mound or grave the first day you appeared 
there, when the excavations began. 

(The witness indicated a height from the floor.) 

Mr. Flood. The witness indicates about — what; 3i/^ feet? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The largest were about that size [indicating]. 

Ml-. Flood. The witness indicates from the floor a height of 3i/4 feet. 

Were these small trees all over the mound of earth ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. They were scattered. You could clearly see that they 
liad not been planted according to any plan and they were not nu- 
merous. 

Mr. Flood. Were they removed before the digging began ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. That was the first job. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1321 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 5 and ask him if he 
can identify the officers on that exhibit ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I know two of them. On the left side is First Lieu- 
tenant Slovenczik and in the middle is Field Police Secretary Voss, 
my superior, my commander. 

Mr. Flood. Have the stenographer mark this next photograph as 
exhibit 11. 

(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 11" and is shown 
on p. 1325.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness marked for identification Ex- 
hibit Xo. 11 and ask him whether or not he can identify the people- 
on that photograph; I just want him to tell me how many of that 
group were on Lieutenant Voss' squad. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Among this group were some that belonged to the 
unit of Lieutenant Voss. 

Mr. Flood. What are their names? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The one, I do not want to name because I know 
that he Avould object. The second one is Pfc. or Corp. Karl Nikolatz,, 
our driver, and in front, sitting on the ground, myself.. 

Mr. Flood. Who is the female in the picture I 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Mrs. Irina Erhardt. 

Mr. Flood. What was her duty ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. She had to translate the documents and diaries 
found on the dead bodies because she knew Polish well. 

Mv. Flood. I will ask the stenographer to mark for identification 
exhibit No. 12, which is another photograph. 

(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 12" for identi- 
fication and is shown on p. 1325.) 

IVIr. Flood. I now shoM' the witness marked for identification Ex- 
hibit No. 12, a photograph, and ask him whether or not that properly 
depicts the grave site and the grave after the trees had been removed 
and just as the first digging commenced? 

ISIr. Pfeiffer. The picture could, of course, have been taken any- 
where. I do recognize people wearing clothes as they usually wear 
them in Russia. 

In view of the fact that the picture only shows a very small area, 
I am not in a position to say that it is actually one of the Katyn 
graves; but the character of tlie place looks very much like the site 
of the graves at Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. How far down, after the digging commenced, did they 
go before they struck the first bodies; how many meters? 

]Mr. Pfeiffer. Two-and-a-half meters. 

Mr. Flood. How many graves were opened during the period of 
time that you were there ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I do not recollect the exact number of graves, but I 
do recollect exactly three graves. 

Mr. Flood. What were your duties after the graves had been 
opened and the bodies had been removed ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I had to go through the pockets of the clothes of the 
dead bodies and to remove the items found in them and had to 
identify the dead bodies from the documents found on them. 

Mr. Flood. How long did you work at that job? 



1322 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Right to the end of the exhumations. 

Mr. Flood. When was that? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. It was approximately in the beginning of June. It 
may have been even at the end of May, but, at any rate, it was not 
later than the 11th of June. 

Mr. Flood. Can you give us the exact date, the day and month 
and year, when the exhumations began ? 

Mr. Pfelffer. Not the day. 

Mr. Flood. How close can you come ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The second half of March 1943. 

Mr. Flood. Were any visitors or visiting delegations of personages 
received at the Katyn grave area during any period of time that 
you were working there? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes. There were commissions; among others, one 
of them, officers who were prisoners of war, British, French, and 
Polish ; then the Commission of International Physicians, either from 
neutral countries or countries fighting on the side of the Germans, and 
then a very large number of Russian civilians and German soldiers. 

Mr. Flood. After the first days, where did you do your work on 
the documents? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. In the hut which was built onto a Russian house, 
in the village or in the hamlet of Gluschtschenki, where I was billeted. 
It was about 20 meters away from the place where I was actually 
billeted. 

Mr. Flood. Wait a minute. You had better spell that for the 
record. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. G-1-u-s-c-h-t-s-c-h-e-n-k-i. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat was the nature of your work with the docmnents 
at this hut ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I took the documents out of their envelopes and 
dictated to a mate every item I discovered, and attempted to estab- 
lish the name of the individual, usually on the strength of the pay 
books which I had discovered. 

Mr. Flood. What procedure did you use for preserving the docu- 
ments ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. No procedure. 

Mr. Flood. Did you separate them? Did you put them all in 
one pile? Did you keep them in relationship to one name? What 
did you do? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. The documents were put back into their own enve- 
lopes and numbers put on them, and the identical number that was 
on the dead body was put on the envelope, and then, all the envelopes 
with the numbers on them were put into a large chest and stored 
away, and certain documents and items were picked out and I ex- 
hibited them outside of this hut. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know what disposition was made by the Ger- 
mans at the end of the exhumations in the summer? Where did 
the chests of documents go, if you know ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. It was said that they would be taken to Krakow 
so as to distribute them among the next of kin and the relatives of 
the murdered men. 

Mr. Flood. How many chests of documents were there ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I estimate four. I do not know exactly, but I esti- 
mate four. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1323 

Mr. Flood. Did you make a close examination of the documents 
of various kinds that came to your hut ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes ; certainly ; I did examine them very carefully. 

Mr. Flood, Was there anything significant with reference to any 
of the documents that came to your attention, especially? 

Mr, Pfeeffer. The one significant fact that struck me was that 
these documents were comparatively in a very good state of preser- 
vation and the most interesting part of the documents found were 
the diaries. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any comment to make with reference to 
the dates on any of the documents ? 

Mr, Pfeiffer. Yes. The letters and post cards and also some news- 
papers found on the dead bodies all carried dates and the dates never 
went beyond April 1940. 

Mr. Flood, I now have the reporter mark for identification exhibit 
13, a photograph ; exhibit 14, a photograph ; exhibit 15, a photograph ; 
and exhibit 16, also a photograph. 

(The documents referred to were marked: "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 
13," "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 14," "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 15," "Frank- 
furt Exhibit No. 16.) 

Mr. Flood. T show you exhibit 13 and ask you if you can identify 
the photograph. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Those were our billets. 

Mr. Flood. Where ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Gluschtschenki, opposite the headquarters of the 
field marshal. 

Mr. Flood. Is that near Katyn ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Half-way between Smolensk and Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit 14 and ask you if you can 
identify that. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. That's the large grave, the mass grave after the end 
of the exhumations and after we had reburied the dead bodies and 
rearranged the burial place. 

Mr. Flood. I would like to ask you this: The Soviet statement 
indicates that when the Soviet began the exhumations of their com- 
mission there was only one grave. Will you tell us how many graves 
were there, in number, at the time the Germans finished the exhuma- 
tions and the Polish Red Cross reburied the bodies in the summer of 
1943 — approximately ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I only recollect three graves, but I know that we 
were talking about more graves. 

Mr. Flood. The photograph, exhibit 14, that I now show you shows 
how many graves and how many crosses ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I want to apologize. I believe that you are meaning 
something different than what I mean ; that we are mixing up the old 
graves and the new graves. 

Mr. Flood. Then, let's go back. 

What I mean is this : The Polish Red Cross, it was just testified to 
by the general, participated in the exhumations and the burials, do 
you recall that ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes. Two Poles worked with me on the identifica- 
tion of the bodies all the time, too, 

Mr, Flood. The Polish Red Cross and the Germans worked to- 
gether on the exhumations and the reburials ? 



1324 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Pfelffer. Yes. 

]\Ir. Flood. And after all the exhumations had been completed and 
after all the reburying had been done, how many graves were there 
then shown ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. After that period, there were the old open graves 
left and the new ones, but I do not recollect the number of the new 
ones. 

Mr. Flood. I mean just the new ones. Do you remember the num- 
ber of the new ones ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. No ; I cannot. 

Mr. Flood. Well, at least three or four are showing on exhibit 14 
that I just showed you. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I was there once more in September, 1943, but, in 
spite of that, I am unable to give the exact number of graves. 

Mr. Flood. You will be interested in knowing that the vice president 
of the Polish Red Cross, who was there and did this work, was before 
this committee and testified that when the Polish Red Cross finished 
the work there were seven graves. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. That is quite possible. T recollect that Voss had 
been deliberating whether to bury all the dead bodies discovered there 
in one huge mass grave or whether to make several smaller graves, 
and then it was decided for reasons of piety, to make several graves. 

Mr. Flood. It is of interest to the committee in view of the fact 
that the Soviet report states that when they came to Katyn to open 
the mass grave there was only one grave there. 

I now show you Exhibit 15 and ask if you can identify that. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes. This is a photostat of the first page of a Polish 
pay book as we found them by the thousands, and I do not recall the 
name but there were chaplains, one or several chaplains, among the 
dead. It is the typical first page of a Polish pay book and there were 
thousands of them. 

Mr. Flood. I now offer the reporter to be marked "Exhibit 17." 

(The above-described document was marked: "Frankfurt exhibit 
No. 17.") 

Mr. Flood. Are you aware that the bodies of two Polish general 
officers were discovered at Katyn? Did you ever hear of that? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes ; right in the beginning. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear that the Polish Red Cross, when the 
reburials were being made, buried the two generals each in a separate 
grave marked by a separate smaller cross ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Now that you mention it, I recall that very clearly. 
Before, I did not. 

Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit 17 and ask you whether or not 
this picture shows six Avhite crosses on six newly made graves with 
one large grave in the front Avith a cross and two small crosses on two 
separate smaller graves? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I recognize the burying place with the graves and 
the two small crosses indicate the new graves of the two Polish 
generals. 

Mr. Flood. We are describing the reburial of the bodies discovered 
at Katyn — these are the newly reburied graves, is that it ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Exactly. 
^ Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit 10 and ask you if you can iden- 
tify the people shown on that picture. 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 



1325 



Mr, Pfeiffer. On this picture I only recognize Voss and the ex- 
liibits which I put out in front of this so-called hut. 

Mr. Flood. I now offer in eA'idence exhibits 11 to 17, inclusive. 
That's all. 

(Exhibits 11 to 17, inclusive, are as follows :) 

Exhibit 11 




■Group of German soMiers, inenibors of exhviination and identification squad at Katyn, 

Exhibit 12 



Site of mass sraves before exhumations. 



1326 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 13 





Juarters of German soldiers near Katyn. 
EXHIRIT 14 




Dedicated graves of reburicd Katyn victims. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1327 



Exhibit 15 



-•vf" 






•Sl,kap#,ls3., 









«feta. 



1 1 mtm^ 



m 



J 



Page of a rolisli ofScer's pay book. 



1328 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 10 





Lieutenant \oss showing possch^sions oi victims. 
Exhibit 17 





Keburial place for I'olish murdered. 

Mr. DoNDEKO. One question : When you reburied these bodies, did 
you rebury tliem right where you found them or did you move them 
away ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. We reburied the dead bodies in a different spot which 
was about 100 meters away from the original phice where we found 
them, in the direction of the higliway that was coming from Katyn.. 

Mr. DoNDERO. That's all. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1329 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Will you tell the committee how many Russian work- 
ers were used in this exhumation proceedings that you carried on? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I am only in a position to give the exact number of 
the first day when we started. That was 30 Russian peasants from the 
surroundings. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Will you tell the committee if ever as many as 500 
Russians were used for that purpose? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. That is absolutely out of the question. Never simul- 
taneously. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. The reason why I state that is that in the Russian 
report they state that 500 Russians were used for that purpose and 
they were all shot by the Germans after they completed their work. 
What comment do you have on that? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. It is possible that over the whole period of exhum- 
ing the bodies 500 workers were used successively, but never at one 
time, and that these 500 workers were shot, I do not believe and it is 
nonsense. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Will you tell the committee if any bodies of Polish 
women soldiers were found in the graves of the bodies you exhumed. 

Mr. Pfeiffer. No. Exclusively officers, ranking from lieutenant up 
to general. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. What was the total number of bodies that was ex- 
humed from the graves at Katyn ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. I ought to be able to give you the exact figure because 
I actually numbered all the exhumed bodies and put the same number 
on the documents, but I do not, at this time, recollect the exact number, 
but I am certain it was between 4,500 and 5,000. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman Madden. One question : Did you notice in these papers 
that you removed from the bodies medical certificates like vaccination 
or innoculations for typhus? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. Yes ; I did find such medical certificates. 

Chairman Madden. That's all. 

Have you anything further you would like to say ? 

Mr. Pfeiffer. No. 

Chairman Madden. We wish to thank you for your testimony here 
today. You are excused. 

I might say that the hour is getting late, but the committee has a 
schedule we have to follow and there is one more witness to proceed 
with this evening. 

Mr. Paul Vogelpoth. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL VOGELPOTH (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER 
ECKHARDT VON HAHN) 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Vogelpoth, before you testify, it is our 
wish to invite your attention to the fact that under German law you 
will not be lialale for slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil 
proceedings, for anything you may say in your testimony, so long 
as you tell the truth. At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear 
that neither the Government of the United States nor the Congress 
of the United States assumes any responsibility in your behalf with 



1330 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

respect to libel or slander proceedings which may arise as the result 
of your testimony. 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. You will be sworn. 

Do you swear by God the Almighty, that you will, according to 
your best knowledge, tell the pure truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. "Wliat is your full name? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Paul Vogelpoth. 

Mr. Flood. l^Tliat is your present occupation ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Editor. 

Mr. Flood. Of what paper and where? 

INIr. Vogelpoth. Mittag, Duesseldorf. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever a member of the German armed forces! 

Mr. Vogelpoth. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever serve with the German armed forces in 
the Smolensk area on the Russian front ? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Were you there in March and April to the summer of 
1943? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. With what unit were you identified? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. Propaganda unit W. 

Mr. Flood. Stationed where? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. When did you first come to the Smolensk area? 

]\Ir. Vogelpoth. In the middle of February 1942. 

Mr. Flood. When did the massacres of the Katyn Forest first come 
to your attention ? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. As far as I recollect, in the middle of March 1943. 

Mr. Flood. In what manner were these first brought to your at- 
tention ? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. I learned of it through my fellow officer. First Lieu- 
tenant Slovenczik, Gregor Slovenczik. 

Mr. Flood. Were you assigned to any special duties in the area of 
the graves at Katyn ? 

JNIr. Vogelpoth. Yes. At the end of March 1943, when the big rush 
or influx of people started, many people started coming to the graves. 
I was detailed to Katyn Forest to put some order into the whole thing. 
It was about the 25th of March 1943. 

Mr. Flood. Would you say that you had charge of the security 
arrangements in the area of the graves? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. Yes, I could say that. 

Mr. Flood. Will you just detail for us the nature of your duties? 
What did you do, wliom did you have charge of, and how long did 
you do it? 

Mr. Vogelpoth. My duty extended from 9 in the morning to 6 at 
night in the forest of Katyn every day. I had the task of selecting 
groups of 150 to 200 people from the very large numbers of soldiers 
and civilians — everyone was coming to the forest to see the graves — 
and of taking these groups to the graves. 

Mr. Flood. During the time that you were there, would you say 
that hundreds or rather thousands had visited the graves? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1331 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. I estimate about 200,000 all together, from the end 
of March right through April, May, and June, to the end of June. 

Mr. Flood. Were there any special groups of any significance that 
visited the area during the time that you were there ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTii. Yes, all the delegations. The delegations, how- 
ever, were managed by Slovenczik and Voss. I had nothing to do 
with them. 

Mr. Flood. What kind of delegations ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. There were delegations consisting of officers, pris- 
oners of war, French, American, British, and Poles, and also the 
Spaniards of the so-called Blue Division. 

Mr. Flood. Any other delegations of any particular kind of work 
or effort or business ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Yes, there were other delegations, such as the dele- 
gation of prominent international medical men, and then a commis- 
sion of experts of judicial medicine, commissions of authors, of artists, 
and there were also commissions sent there by the ministry of 
propaganda. 

Mr. Flood. As a former journalist, do you remember seeing any 
delegations of journalists? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Yes, we had a delegation of journalists there. 

Mr. Flood. What were your particular duties, witness, with ref- 
erence to these visitors, delegations, or groups ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTii. Generally speaking, I had nothing to do with all 
these delegations, with the exception of the delegation of journalists 
and of authors. Those two delegations I took over the graves and 
over the areas. 

Mr. Flood. Did you volunteer, or was it part of your job to explain 
if anybody asked any questions as to what this was all about ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Yes, it was part of my duty to give explanations 
to them and to answer any question they put to me. 

Mr. Flood. Then you acted as a sort of guide and informer in the 
area during the visits ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Flood. What was Slovenczik ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. He was a first lieutenant in the propaganda detail 
W, and he was assigned to this post right at the beginning, just a few 
days after Voss had been detailed to the Katyn Forest. 

Air. Flood. Why, if j^ou know, witness ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTii. He was an exceptionally good talker, orator, and — 
well, he knew his way about very well. 

Mr. Flood. He was a narrator and a good talker. Did he act as a 
guide for these groups as well ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Yes, he did, with the delegations, not with the 
many visitors coming there on their own, like soldiers and civilians, 
but expressly for the delegations and commissions. 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 5 and ask him if 
he can identify any of the officers on that exhibit. 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. On the left is Slovenczik ; in the center is Voss ; and 
on the right-hand side — I don't know him, I do not believe that it is 
Dr. Buhtz. 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 8 and ask him if he 
can identify the German officer in uniform and the group of civilians.. 



1332 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. Slovenczik is on the left. In the light overcoat is 
the rather well known German author, Luetzkendorf. And one of 
the other gentlemen in this picture is sitting among the audience here, 
but I don't know who he is, and he does not want to be mentioned. 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 12 (see p. 1325) and 
ask him if he can identify that picture. 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. That is the beginning of the exhumation in the 
middle of March. That is the largest grave that was found and 
opened. 

Mr. Flood. Have the stenographer mark, as exhibit No. 19, this 
picture, and exhibit No. 20, the next one. 

(Due to incorrect numbering, there is no exhibit 18.) 

(The photographs referred to were marked Frankfurt Exhibits Nos. 
19 and 20, and are shown below.) 

Exhibit 19 




German officer, Lieutenant Vogelpoth (witness at German hearings), inspecting growth of 

grass. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 20 



1333 




]; bsation inspecting group of corpses. 



1334 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 20 and ask him if 
he can identify anybody on that picture. 

Mr. VoGEi.poTH. On the left, Slovenczik. The man in the black 
overcoat was a former Polish minister-president, who was killed in 
an air raid in Berlin in 1944, but the name is unknown to me. 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 19 and ask him if 
he can identif}^ the person on that picture. 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. irhat is myself. 

Mr. Flood. What were you doing at the time that picture was 
taken ? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. We were investigating the growth of the grass and 
of the trees, not as experts. 

Mr. Flood. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. Any further questions. 

Mr. O'KoNSKT. I would like to ask a question. 

Chairman Madden. Congressman O'Konski. 

Mr. O'Konski. If they exhumed something like 250 bodies, in 
round figures, why did the propaganda ministry, or whoever had 
charge of propac'anda, continue to say that there were 11,000 or 
12,000 or 15,000 bodies found in Katyn? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. We knew from the Poles, who had told us that 
between 12,000 and 13,000 Polish officers were missing, and we assumed 
that all of them were l3nng buried in the forest of Katyn. The figure 
of 11,000 was mentioned at the time when the reburying was still 
carried out. It had not been complete. It is definitely established 
that the forest of Katyn contained more dead bodies of Polish officers 
than the 4,250 which were actually found, because, right at the begin- 
ning of June, we discovered a new grave of Polish officers, but we 
just only opened it a bit and had to close it again, because it was' 
getting so hot at that time of the 3^ear that we were afraid of epidemics 
and we would not take the risk, and this grave has never been opened. 
And this new grave, which we just opened in one spot and closed up 
again without investigating it, was located about 200 meters between 
the so-called Korzy Gory — that is, it was located between these hills 
and the Dnieper Castle. Not near the low part, inside the forest, in 
the direction leading toward Dnieper Castle. 

Mr. O'Konski. In other words, they used the figure in their propa- 
ganda of 11,000 because they felt that if they had an opportunity to 
dig up all of the graves they might find 11,000 bodies there, because 
they heard a report that there were that many Polish officers missing, 
is tliat correct? 

Mr. VoGELPO'iH. The figure of 11,000 originated from my unit. 
They Avere asked by Berlin to name a figure or an estimate, and they 
actually named 11,000, that is, my unit, but later on they foimd out 
that they had eiTpd. it could not be correct. As it is, the Katyn 
Forest only holds the bodies of the Polish officers who came from the 
camp of Kozielsk, but not those of the other tw^o camps. Later on 
we learned that apart from the camp of Kozielsk there were another 
two very large camps of Polish officers. 

Mr. Flood. May I say that that last statement has some significance 
in view of the fact that at the other two camps referred to by the 
witness, the one, Starobielsk, and the third, Ostohkov, contained as 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1335 

prisoners, both military and civilian, unaccounted for to date, in the 
neighborhood of 6 to 8 thousand Poles. The 6 to 8 thousand from 
the other two camps of Starobielsk and Ostoshkov have not been heard 
from to this day and their bodies have never been discovered. 

Chairman Madden. Is there anything further you would like to 
say? 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. The previous witness was questioned as to the exact 
number of graves. I am in a position to give you the exact number 
of graves. 

Chairman Madden. We will be glad to have it. 

Mr. VoGELPOTH. There were four old graves and a fifth one, which 
we discovered later in the forest, and new graves. They laid out 
four large ones and two smaller, single, ones, six all together. 

Chairman ]\La.dden. We wish to thank you for your testimony here 
this afternoon. 

The committee will reconvene at 9 : 30 in the morning. 

(Whereupon at 7 : 40 p. m., Tuesday, April 22, 1952, a recess was 
taken until 9 : 30 a. m., Wednesday, April 23, 1952.) 



93744— 52— pt. 5- 



THE KATYN FOEEST MASSACRE 



WEDNESDAY, APRIL 23, 1952 

House of Representatives, 
The Selectt Committee on the Kattn Forest Massacre, 

Frankfurt/Main^ Germany. 

The committee met at 9 : 30 a. m., pursuant to call, in the main court- 
room. Resident Officer's Building, 45 Bockenheimer Anlage, Hon. Ray 
J. Madden (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Messrs. Madden, Flood, Machrowicz, Dondero, and 
O'Konski. 

Also present: John J. Mitchell, chief counsel to the select com- 
mittee, and Eckhardt von Hahn and Arthur R. Mostni, interpreters. 

(The proceedings and testimony were translated into the German 
language. ) 

Chairman Madden. The committee will come to order. 

The first witness is Dr. Sweet. 

TESTIMONY OF DE. PAUL SWEET, WHADDON, BUCKS, ENGLAND 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, will you give the reporter your full 
name and address, please ? 

Dr. Sweet. Paul R. Sweet. 

Chairman Madden. And your address ? 

Dr. Smeet. Whaddon, Bucks, England. 

Chairman Madden. Pardon me. Doctor. Do you mind whether you 
are photograjDhed or not % 

Dr. Sweet. No. 

That is my working address. 

Chairman Madden. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under the German law you will not be liable 
for slander or libel either in criminal or in civil proceedings for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that? 

Dr. Sweet. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. Now, Doctor, will you stand and be sworn, 
please ? 

Dr. Sweet. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. Do you swear by God the Almighty that you 
will, according to the best of your knowledge, tell the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Dr. Sweet. I do. 

1337 



1338 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name ? 

Dr. Sweet. Paul R. Sweet. 

Mr. Flood. What is your present occupation? 

Dr. Sweet. I am head of the American team in England of the 
German war documents project. 

Mr. Flood. Now, you have been requested by the committee to ap- 
pear here and to bring with you certain documents in possession of 
your organization that have been described as directly connected 
with negotiations and communications between certain of the gov- 
ernments concerned, the International Red Cross, and certain other 
pertinent matters. Is that correct ? 

Dr. Sweet. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have those documents now with you ? 

Dr. Sweet. I have photostats of them. 

Mr. Flood. Where are the original documents? 

Dr. S^VEET. The original documents are in England in the joint cus- 
tory of the American and British Governments. 

Mr. Flood. How was this organization with which you are iden- 
tified set up, and what are its general purposes ? 

Dr. Saveet, These documents are among those captured by the Mil- 
itary Forces under the command of the Supreme Commander, Allied 
Expeditionary Forces. They were turned over to the two Govern- 
ments for joint custody, and this project is in the process of publishing 
a series of documents to establish as objectively as possible the record 
of German foreign policy. 

Mr. Flood. What is your official capacity with this project? 

Dr. Sweet. I am head of the American team in England. 

Mr. Flood. The committee suggested that as you present these doc- 
uments, you would have prepared at that time a brief description of 
each document, as it was placed in the record, about a sentence or so 
in length. Do you have that prepared ? 

Dr. Saveet. I do, sir. 

Mr. Flood. Now, if you will let me have all of those documents I 
will have them marked for identification before you refer to them. 

How many are here ? 

Dr. Sweet. Approximately 20. 

(Documents submitted to the committee.) 

Fr. Flood. I now hand to tlie stenographer, to be marked for iden- 
tification, each one of these documents, to be marked with a separate 
number beginning with No. 21. 

(The documents referred to were marked "Frankfurt Exhibits Nos. 
21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 
40, 41, and 42," and are shown starting on p. 1339.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit No. 21, a document marked for 
identification, and I ask you to describe what it is and to give your 
summary on it. 

Dr. Saveet. The document is dated the 13th of April 1943, and it is 
a memorandum by the head of the Cultural Policy Department of the 
German Foreign Ministry, Dr. Six. 

Mr. Flood. Very well. 

Dr. Sweet. This is the summary for exhibit No. 21 : 

This document records a telephone call from the Propaganda 
Ministry. Goebbels asks the Foreign INIinistry to invite the Inter- 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1339 

national Red Cross to send a commission to witness the exhuming of_^ 
the bodies of Polish officers found in mass graves in the Smolensk' 
region. The exhuming has already begun and has been witnessed by 
the Polish Red Cross and by delegations of Polish scientists, physi- 
cians, artists, and industrialists. Hitler has given the order to send 
out this story to the world, using all available means. 

Mr. Flood. No. 21 is in evidence. 

(Exhibit 21 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 21 






. ^i,e ; iSiT > 



yf nt "1 '.iSTj!*^!,!.. tl'T, /..?.t<«, 1, i \\cT Jfi-i X J^fitria Her 

te.,.8l?,:;,««h«4t In .5«r . - i> 5.P. 'Slt -it (alls'; ~ar tiji*- 
^<j:;u«;> :r<*'<'H?'^n :'it.;';« ■;:'.-«' ^r%«8. Dares- ..si uw&Xxxi." 



m\ 



1340 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 21— Continued 



ittiifTxLfst •Harden^ K«l«i.«»;.T>t«t«r 8o«*>>ei« Mt%«t noa 

X^o<«p.lea1.aa V>»ig<»r,og«ts wird. Da ai« Ausg3faba»s8art>eiUfi 
a«fcr -wai's j;or..«.3Chr;lttea e«i«o aad ait Sat?k3lcht «ciX 
jSi« f<o^^:«oohy4st8B« <jaUr«aKelt ait «in«® i5«rfBll d«r 
I.*iioh«a sia rsKtuiaen s&i, «nre sins b«so;.icanii7te Sin~ 
3si<„un{» ij«r iJlaietStan,.:*!! dee Jnt«rr-a*ioaai«r, 4ot*a 



Six 






Hlcrmit 

Jlarir. S t a » t s s « k r « tsC; 



•^ 



ix.d.BiftP urn »C«-nntr.i;;r;ah!Re vorj^aleitrt. 



it 



\\\\ 



33S74 



GeniKui Fow'i^'ii Office meinonindum of conversation with Goebbels concerning the discovery 
of Katyn graves, April 13, 1943. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1341 

[Translation of Exhibit 21] 

[50/33673] 
Head Cult Pol (Dept) 

Tc 

C)ffice of Reich Foreign Minister. 

Please submit to the Foreign Minister. 

Urgent! 

Submit at once ! 

On April 13 at 2230 hrs the deputy head of the Foreign Department of the 
Reich Propaganda Ministry Counsellor Gregory, and shortly after that, Minister 
Director Berndt rang Pi'ofessor Six of the Cultural Policy Department and 
gave him on behalf of Reichminister Goebbels the following information. In 
the district of Smolensk a GPU execution ground was discovered. In a number 
of mass graves 12,000 Polish officers were found. It concerns all the Polish 
officers who fell into Soviet hands at the occupation of East Poland. In that 
army there were altogether 12,000 officers and 300,000 men. Of these 300,000 
men, 10,000 arrived in Iran but no officers. The men who arrived in Iran know 
nothing of their officers' whereabouts. These officers were first held in the 
Prisoner of War Camp in Posbelsk. The official Polish authorities were in 
contact with them until April 1940, then all contact was severed. Reports of 
interrogations are now to hand on their further whereabouts, from the railway 
workers and village inhabitants there [at Katyn], who saw the arrival of the 
officers. The officers were, according to their statements, brought daily in large 
groups [to that place] and then shot. The exhumations showed that all 
officers I'emained in possession of their identification mai'ks, medals and papers, 
so that it is possible to identify them individually. The Polish Red Cross 
and a delegation of Polish scientists, doctors, artists and industrialists were 
invited to the exhumations. The Fiihrer has now given the order, that the 
affair should be given the widest possible use and publicity, with every means 
available. The Press and Film industry have been notified by Doctor Goebbels 
for April 14. 

[end of 50/33673] 
[50/33674] 

Reichminister Goebbels now asks that through the German Foreign Office 
the International Red Cross should be drawn into participation in the exhuma- 
tion of the corpses in the last large mass graves by the sending of a commission. 
As great progress has been made with the exhumations, and taking into con- 
sideration the danger of the corpses decomiwsing because of the advanced time 
of the year, a speedy initiation of the invitation to the International Red Cross 
is necessary. 

Please give instructions. 

(signed) Six 13/4 
Herewith submitted 

to the Secretary of State 
for information. 

[50/33674] 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness a document marked for iden- 
tification as exhibit No. 22, and I ask yon to describe what it is and 
give your summary of it. 

Dr. Saveet. This is a memorandum dated the 15th of April 1943, 
a memorandum by the official of the Political Department, Tippel- 
skirch. 

This memorandum recommends to the Director of the Political 
Department of the German Foreign Office, Woermann, that official 
protocols be made about what was found at Katyn for propaganda. 
This is all the more necessary, since some neutral journalists have de- 
clined to have their impressions published. 



1342 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. No. 22 is in evidence. 
(Exhibit 22 is as follows :) 



Exhibit 22 







■«tr. >5arag«n^isa ftir ?ro|:ag&sda< dag. 



griibara nural^ die Git! QTs.choasHU'^i. ^-^olsi-chor Ofrisioro bei 
.l£SdX«or.'.; ^ijtlichft ?/T.tokcIle aiiff'rtl;^<-'a su ir'Gsen. "'i^'^fy 
Protakoile solliui ::ttr ^ryi)i-i>^aiiix;*t •..;',,;.. ,'.uf; ortua., .l.j ':.- 

ssicl>Ui,am',f »ft Ori uua StsIIe air;.,;<^i*idcfji »f«reii, :Me Verof ;uut- 

M; i'Toiifkolls viu^. bsip C' ' v ^i f order t. 
eriij;, .:*?n 15. .' rli li;45 



Hierai: 



Tan:.cisgte 



Herm; U.Siw", Woorsaar- 



ger.. TOft Tippelokirch 






^. / --*/. 



352027 



//o'. " 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1343 

[Translation of Exhibit 22] 
[1327/352027] 

Referat. (Office) of Minister von Tippelskirch Political Dept. V. 

Subject. Suggestions for Propaganda. 

[stamp:] Foreign Office 
Pol V 417 
arrival 16.iv.l943 

It would appear to be expedient to prepare official records of the discovery 
of the mass graves of Polish officers shot by the GPU near Smolensk. These 
records should be of use for propaganda purposes abroad. This kind of propa- 
ganda is moi'e essential as individual neutral journalists who were invited to 
view the site and place [of the discoveries] refused to publish their impressions. 

These Protocols are demanded by the Supreme Command of the Armed 
Forces (OKW) 

Berlin 15 April 1943 

Herewith submitted to 

Under Secretary of State Woermann 

(signed) Von Tippelskirch. 
Copy to 
Director Pol 

Ppt Pol IX (Minister Counsellor von Triitzschler) 
Pol XIII (Ambassador Count von der Schulenberg) 

Mr. Flood. 1 now show yon, witness, a document marked for identi- 
fication as exhibit No. 23 and I ask yon to describe what it is and give 
yonr summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. I am sorry, but this sheet of paper here is not an exhibit ; 
it is just a record of a telegram. 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit 21 was Goebbel's talk, and No. 22 was that re- 
port that you thought was necessary because of the neutrals, is that 
correct ? 

Dr. Sweet. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Very well. Let the record show that the paper marked 
as Exhibit No. 23 'is— what? 

Dr. Sweet. That is just a paper for my own reference, a missing 
document, a telegram from the German Red Cross to the International 
Red Cross, which is not in our record and which I noted for my own 
information. 

Mr. Flood. Very well; we will strike out exhibit No. 23 as not 
pertinent or material and go on to the next one. 

(As noted above there is no exhibit No. 23.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 24 and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 

Mr. Sweet. This is dated the 15th day of April 1943, from the head 
of the Cultural Policy Department, Dr. Six, to the German Legation 
in Bern. This is a summary of what has been found so far at Katyn. 
By April 11, 160 bodies had been taken out and identified. Annexed 
to this document are interrogations of people who had local knowledge 
of Katyn. 



1344 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 24 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 24 is as follows:) 



ExniRiT 24 



Wilm 



ZvJut Vol 

2I?t,r 'iXit j'.urf iiiduiig vo!i 



IS" 



A& 










la dor Anlagc werdon I*icii-Jbil4ai' 4ar ia ^c.l4 vos? 
Satyn .jjefvatdon^^n eraordotoa p<53jai9cb«n Ofi*ixlero ua^ 
Abscfai'if tea von Yoynefamiiige-a orteans|i33iir«y RMos^fn 
^^^—^ — " Uljersandt* 

Mo IjlchtTjildoi' zcigeat 

5) oinselne I>*iQken, \iai <i.an&tL die HiUKio auf da» 

4) clue LeicUe. bei ^or TJai^rJoi^roclr xiii>% Edudc ilb«5r 

Sliratitciw IilcJJtbildcr feQii-^flaa Lolcbon or- 
fflOi^detsr poluisoher Cffi«ies»&, 

1) Die P\«Ktst'5lle aaf in den J.^nrovi l?iJj^ I'-'?-'' t>ia 

2) Ira lOirs -and .^pril 1m40 v.-ur'Scn ir. t^.^U'-Iien "o- 

Goistliohe auf Sou l-orApIats <jcJ'?ccht<, Htc 'P'^ilca 
fcesjv'a a3ie«^lio& sue (J^m S^iffuticwiTiatfttJ" ::or'-;lf^. 

^MooJ: von de« F'.md i*»i-.io tvalHro .»?i-lu>!/.;t. Iti ?«~- 
4i« P*vtt*ish* 8«««a4te<iiadJt «... ^ .^ .- 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1345 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



? - • I 
C " "l c'*" ai "" ' '^ «" " t£,rat. uiitersi clit« . il 

t Iti, I ^ v^ c " X L "^ j'-r-'i as-- 1 

'"'''" i i ' c^e vc ■" ich s? Lx-ichcrs-- 

If ' i 

<~'^ ^ *> cs c <-i ''^iai) ist ';; 

t- :!'- ^ i 2. o ■>- elnei" ;i 

f < I. 'bt en 

T' -^-it aa-n r«.<j -hi lach ^-"ica j 
a 1 ! l-* i€3 i ^ T "^ stB 1^1 .li'-.a ; 

Ct..aicLs.,hi,M&c ,.,af. 

ho-.tcn aic Krntio cu'" ,: ■ - > - '■ . ..li; fcei einigeK 1 
x;ov c.in ShcI: *;er;^^, <" ; r '. . ' :•. -••'Oi; ;;'.ci' dexr; IZovii au-- 1 

T/crtacchc^n eohr oei ^iich. ilaoh ;:o_:i:-^c.i ^n fast cllcn i 

:;'L .;"••! •;. Ap--i-i ;;-r-: ;'0 I.oioftcu >»u?; usa i 

»:r;-lich 2ri3K«CGC;-:ci'-l ,■ :■; ; ^■.^, . :,:.•-■;.-:, ;.UD ;: 

■Biil ;-'ii: '';0 lend gm^^ier Teil f'ci' 0^'^;«;icre trf'gt die 1 

?lvS'^ - :.c:'3i: t^c Csr I'ilc:-' : :: r , In dm pel- } 

ViOi laden, ! 



1346 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



•? .- 



Ma C-<jsaffitxehl star ia 49© fr»g3.ioljMi '.TcWselgado 
-/ersohawteu 2olenl«iohea wird auf Onuri der Anaaben 
4qv 31vilbeY5lfcer«B(j tEber die otgndigen Ausledun^en 
In dea iloimtea i:tor, imd .Ai^ril 1?4^0 auf ei-pa 10 000 

Bie Iicioiien cerdoa von. S^riohtaastdiaincru dei' Hcer«3^ 
^ntppe Illtta untersaeht, 'ler Berlciit viv& schsxellmUg - 
li<^hot fijigefcrtf.gt v/erden, 2r «ird »5glici:cr\-;eiBe Mf-- 

Yrsa<<39n &xx 5eii bishei- g'<ji?ore9ixcn 160 Leielieiv aicht feat- . 
gestsllt.. Aua del' liafiS dar i/«ielien kann eni-iertotamea 
ssr-^fin. dasB 4.ie Offlaier-e gaamiJigen w«rUe«,. ia das 
0rsb sa at^igen ujkJ sieh selbet hiaaulctj^n, Lcctisl.icU 
die 05)er«tQ Schic&t -Sei' Leicheu lag ^«er dureiieinsnuerj 
t?oi*au8 gcsciilosaan acxni^n kar.ii. dasD 3ie nsch £^«r 2r- 

¥on daa Susseiigrabsra iut ei'st «iji cbk-j fclciner 
?eil r;<a6ffnet \303?d«n. aticfc .Mer Itorjite ich 'boi cini^an 
I^eicJieK afeer cLssn Siapf fs^t^sbtuKlene SRclce sebesi; boi 
eiaisea «eit«ren tiar Ser "xtxia ait S^gesj-uKGA auBje- 

Pie AttSgrabita^en serdeu fortscsetat, Irgnnen abei* 
voranssioMlicii xmr bis Anfang II«i eirfolcen. da daim 
^ie Gratee? bei'l-lr.trttt vi&rmar^r r.ltterujis wegcn Seuchen* 



iaisss 



THE KATYN FOREST MA&SACRE 1347 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



O-xs, 



;; i V a v' 1 o w , r«'r';)"'. oiu 
7;^ J- hro clt, 

woiTijhri'i; ia :".or!v...o.i'ic 

Ich r.'olmG ocit 1907 in ro;;v>::,oric, .^,lt imrc-r'br 

Acfirici'd.on visX cllca t'u.rch iOatsr. id.t Cowchr c.crA ciwrt. 
i.llo't Zivil>3oi'i5&n^.' \7ii-' tar J4«^:.'i5t n: f"c.: - U'siCck 
tjti-ejv; vorltOvSn, Von {te:. ?, c«t3n li. be- ior r-i'snc/^tl {je- 
izajyie i'lii-j^? fc2i u u(A-n.cciiX, uor rr/cioio'i T'.-: 'cv vcr, 
nmyerio ""lon.-ji C? o r cj <* I e v; i t s c ii , r'vct)li<?l. r ,-^ 

vv.-oi.c* .or, J!±. ; ,, .-. v.. c''3c .,, 00 droa ."it - 
sxxi dca Bi.hJihof S«ie£(?ot?n •.•^m', sail i<yh ViC rv:? aou 
Gnu iii Eicifettms *T;,Msi<ic5: J^YsrAUti^cn- '...^-j sit «en 
Riwaciifi if. (Ji<f i:rii« v<cc2tt fltii-i-U', i) .; Sc'Iu-.- uh una 
i;isi!i''yt» B'. iot t/oisl i»<t?n*nchjicr , f'rec die I "i-iicr ci'suh-ossga 
5sss Mes ic-is- iSurcb. ilo :%i:, ■„'.;;. Oi-x^Hcorn •.<m>''"-5r . 
«iJ^t::a 10 ceo r-CiSE* Cnh'.r'^nXx h fcer. :;on. 



U2i%m 



1348 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 24 — Continued 



(i:'.r,.t.C'' ..ri::c. 
.fcst, (".aas ;" 
ten, 19.-:; ::-; 



ih . ■ r dor :;o1.r.ur..':, .Ich V'-rJo rsocii oinlso 

7 Tot'-T. r.i;r v.i;'^:- rlc". H".:-,olr. JJ-c.-^c-n fcorm- 
LoHtlor.'fj XiQ-rch' C ^,1 _ <.. ;iinea Si.-geB Icessea lO 



tier l'.~il.',;,\), oiwchOwf-'cn •vorcei: '.J'rc 



cli :e dock ii'jton 
■:':••; or- , celcho vCii 
n. Ich _""."'U'tc 3io in 
rlsokoa Rnrel. Die 



Polcn baton *ornor, icli isbcliic i!ii;an olne I'rckc vsi^ 
■! Gohcufcl IciUen, v?iia icii ciioli r^.X^.n iiabo. tJjigcfaiJr 
nj»<!h i Stwicte liprsen c.icselben ej'.port v.v.A cohimpfend 
CiViS dio K.jTjV.E. stu'Uok, Die 1-olou crkli},ri,an, dcia:; aic 
auf oinem der !f:.igel die L«lchen {-.cfundcri hi"tten. Ala 
vMri-cv^io Zcichcn haben sic von Bivhorhola 2 Ki-eusc . 

hln,-:<?aioll i> welchc h>3',>.to r.oc!i clort otchon, 

. >,-i ',C'~. t; Ansnljc;-! her.a icii koine mr.ohc-ii. 

Ins ^,u;3.-;i2ohc v. crc;o';::t ur.d vorr;oleocn. 



£ C a . on ■■: c r :: c :iVj. 






EI2458S 



II 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1349 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



Yor dfix' }'iicsi2cn ,T3icr!S totollo orschclfit 

S o !i i ^- i^ 1 o -.7 . r'lchail 

G'o'tS' cn 10. Jcnaar ig'S in irowo-Bate):!. 
daaclbot;. Hnua '6 v.-ohnhnlr; 
Vtsrhoirctct, ' "ind- pr.i-t olios,- 
i-oit .•.H{:it':1; 1942 'bolti riir- CD.. 

3eI^on alxi Tiod hSr-te ioh, dr.at; aus dom Gofr.n.-jnia iii 
Rolens?: J^uto nrch dci: ■;c,ld bci Tlosicory •:ccchnfit und 
^ort C3rr;choucor. wCn'oiU J>qz dftorcn i>.-ibo ioh offcjic Last- 
'trcS'tea~cr.f jirJ^ Scncn tUc Ccr?.n,':cncii outer 'o'-Tnchuiii:; 

■Hinos 'Jacoc, eti -, o.r la Jahrc ■92?; hi'.tcto ioh nit 
coca fjidcren ronton aus doa Dcr-rc in dcr "-'he vo« !Cofli- 
gory ?;rorao. Da srJicn. wir oincn LaritJ-.mrt^veccn e.iw (k-r 
Siclituni; asoicosk sn'toraaon uiid en dci- r.ollbclin bci c?cra 
■."Pld ?oH !IoGl2o-£7 hr.ltcn. Bca Vfcccn cnisticccn 1"; Icuta, 
aic ia dr-i; Soirncic ?.b,';o±'i'hrt v.-ai-flci-:. "iu'::c '.oxi dai-iutr 
laortcr. sir Scharjce f .alien., -.•i^clo'- nr.cii cini-cr '^.oit, ksu 
die 3cT7£ehuii;jerj,"micchri*t sui-Cok t^jid daa .".utD fuhr v;ic-'-cr' 
in Hlchtnr.j Sttoloiis]: zarilck. :.uo ncu-ici'do ilcfcn v;ir 
JuiiG<2«3 ^sr.n in Aon '..'aid, mt lujs die Ctcllo, v;o '".ic ".-.utc 
orsehosson wordcn waron, ru'licr anKusohc,-:. Viah solljst '/or.- 
licse cboT oin Stdo': vorhoi- dor rat luid ioh bliob surt -:!:. 
iici'nech. cr^rjilton mir die eiidoreii;, dasD cic die Ci-ube ^v 
fundcn hv.tton, :xi^?.:.ndc dcr Crubc \ii'ron -zanz frlychc ^lut- 
einu-oii au achcn covrcacn rnd riu;;5crdcni ^vren die Teiohrn 
nur ait Mcni- ZrC.o hcCcchc -..a-dcn, oodass cie nosh Htf.jida 
und Fdaso hcrauora-icn j-rcsciic;-. hi'.f^eii.. '• 

, ^cncx'bon r.-ili iali noch,. dccy dac ..cldGc': "nd-j bei 
"tosiiTory 3u dicaor 3oit noch .niohs cbses^ci'i-i. v.ar. ■)io 
Jvmzon. ,i:dt deacn ich A:.t.-o.lz\v.\!i.-^-ron vrv, .?ind grmtlich 
rstir Sotci) .'.I'i.itco o.iwj;or,o,jeR<. 

Itt3 r.«r,rjic:cho Ctbersct^'.t uad vorgclgsoaj 



1350 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



O.U. , <ler. 5.. ApvU ■'9'^3 



S i p. {1 't v; . 'Ae-nir :;cboF» ':^.3.'875 
In Chorawchnwc- R^yon 7;c!!iidov/ '.rohnhcft 

loh woJintc in doii Jahxon ''939 - '94' in Sowo- . 
Batoki imcl fuiir jcdosi fag salt &em Zug nneh Smolensk, v.-o ? 
ich crbcitote. .'.uf dicse Voiso hattc ioh Gclc-onhcitj 
die U*bci*fCihrJji52 dex' Poleu, no.oh 'Cualj Gory Kit cigcnca 
Jju{;cn zu ■boobaohtcji'. lia Honat IT.rs Aon Jclu'cs. '940 stan- 
den eiucs 2ac;os 4-5 lAixUu-.'aGCOiis auf cinera HcbonsloiB 
doo Bahnlto-ro (Jnoodov/Oi. in dor iTSho "dcr Ycrlador^jipo. Die 
Inaaaoon dorfton dio V/ason nicht vsrlaasen tiiid znei !?o- 
stcn «it Sov.'ehr stsiidon df-.vor. Ich girtg eclbfit en den 
T/^^coii vorbel und seJi Offlaicrc luid Zivilictcn an ^ischon 
aitzcn. Aui* dan Sischen ctendon '.7ein;^l':rjchci5 vjul die; 
vei'echiGdonston Speiseu^ '.vie k.-Bl, './arat und Sohin^cen.. 
J)ic Ineasson v^arcn zian ;';rosscn ?cil Sivillston? such 
cini:;-;Q Pi'ai'-on v;ai'ea deruiitar^ Sie v;a,vc« alio gut c^nrhrt 
ojrid VQi-nehitt ^ekleidct und schon dt-rrn els .'.usli-ndcr su 
oritcncen.. ]?i'atten Yon 33;':tc5:i nurjratc-n Vafifjoi' su don '.'.'a^^ons, 
terin^Gn. diu'ftcn jodoch 'diosc gcluBt «icht bQtrc!r>m» Icb 
wer auoh 2<jii'^e. als abondG cin i'cil dcr ■.Vsjoninscciicu 
aiif zijel iast'^^a^cn i;claden wurc'on.. Die ];,".ttcn alio 
sc'micTQ ZofSoT hci cich^ eiiiij^o trurjcn -..v.oh }'issen uutcr 
&om AiTS. Die Vcrladttng v.'urdo 4--'5 -y.^o i"o:-,-i£-csctr.t; bin 
dio '.'aGSonG loor rmrcn. vbcr R.icht v.crcn dejj)\ die v;ag- 
Ccnti wicdor ver£tch"iundsn und nach otwa S Safjen 8tr.ndon 
sic v/icdcr voll besotzt an dcrselbeu Stollcs Dicsoo Sniol 
^ledorholto sicb. uniuiterbrochen v.'i;.hrend dor ."onstc Il'.rs 
und April '540» Untor dor hicsi^jcn 2cvol)tcrmi5 bofsciobno- 
ic sen' dlcso LouUs dsjjjclo nllGCjnoin clo ".^oljiischc 5oi- 
BoLn". 
.,'cit<2ro /.n/zabcn Ikpji ich nicht mr.chon^ 



Xns r.u;;3iBCho ttborsotKtj. vor^'closcn u» unicrcchriaboii! 

Untcx'scM'iftf 



Bf/ei!?,u^.lStx Dolaotsohcri 



Wfs^ u- II.lpo Sdfv (G 



^i2n87 



THE KATYN FOREST IMASSACRE 
Exhibit 24 — Coutinned 



1351 



# 



" • ' '- .' 8 •*• !• ^ \; . >vpn. 









-■^ ■■-*"■■■/- -■^- - ; ■ iiy Urn 
. :,:! ■ -icllict ^;nao!ren lifttSO;. 
•■ i ,* ^- .''"^tc !,. n.. dv-:,o die I 



rco. 









Ci: ■'- 



EI2ISS8 



X v/'.'-^Xt '^•^- -3^"-- ^ ''"';' -1" '"''ft '• r i V,' :i •-* r n a w . Iv^s^n., I 



93744— 52— pt. 5 9 



1352 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



Q^'O.r den 5. ipMl '945 - 1 



:;ob>. w. ao^ 7 <■.?■; 5 in i:ov/o-3ateki ; 
EiscMreher, 

f.oit J«li ":94-"s 0--3>«-?:tJJrt 

h-cirt;. ?'•-,;;(; <}f'ri v'l-fX^Rto yu:; ''cai-'^ui-;' Oiccc'-ljor;;; noil, fias 
J".':-"c f;"^ ;;U ■'ic'^'ctJM.tc vn ''or Sso^-<3':ro t^ptltor von &ot 

',Uf"i icU hfiic :'<!:> Jv.i\'::*7 in '"osx-'-ovi' ■^i3,?;c ^csuoliio ;<Gi {"icser,) 
Golo^^tirhrtii blr iah \dv''!ofholt von <3crt liiosi-en cnf tUe friaohdJsi 

tlf>f> T^cvj^fttja finrch rfinit^^Coln- tUo vou dof O..G«?»B, Ui^■^erschrlJ|| 

Ocirnj-i; cjift i;iv:vycc C.-v:; /cbriut, Ao.'i rC;: iilf> "^T,V«?),.-J;aatG al»| 

VoliaU-C'0''.«nt,tni ic 'o^i -^'oyy >.-,"uflcK In c'on .T-.ii'.rcu -t«)1S - ,: 
■(i^^O WJt> voti 'S^O sb ■:^u^vh£:oJfi!iirl;- In den nutuehon;ji-hV(?n airsJ 

yea oir«J< 

.;» 1940 is* ^C£ CcJ'j^^'c voii .ooi-Gor;; utnaccrdew noch V9« 
i:'«»^%>« WM ??rta4«:'ii !>e-;«Ci»t i?<>ix?g«, Xn den ilonntcn • fr-i unr' ,\\>ril;;: 

ssM f^.':< 'i;-,:/ni .-:'n4 <5t<j-;n voti !';•: x^n^jf Cfi^'Cvd^iv;;!, :Mr dio Xtrudatva^i 






THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1353 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



- 2 - 



Goi":,'- h-r.bo loll ni.o ^,sh.^vl:^ 



Cc:"r»,i'rx rli.po IJ.cr;;, 



^^2U90 



1354 



m 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 24 — Continued 



0/ 



Aaf YoriacStin'j' cracheiRt dor /.usee 
h n <i r ^ 3- « '•■' ■ !'-'??.«. 
GPb. e,!.i 22,1,1917 in :,ov;o-^3atc;:i. 
dft,2ibst. Hruo .r- 2 rrohnliaft, 

vvrijsi rctet. 
parioxlor> 




tc 1 / 7 ' 



4 "f J -^ ■? 



Unct. hi 

sproche ;, i - Pj "" -^-^ 

Die Inee i -nfioe;,! ^3l i. 

t'aggons ^'^ toe cj 

iUJu'en de r aie »/ti fc,-o l 

darm 1 1 1 3 n 

bQob?.c;:t: , i 

Kollbahi 8?bu^(,n a l n "S " 

Ins "'ue-iachQ » >&rs i..t i i oi 1 



Ct, ill u " K : 'm '^Bhitic' 



> sit.! auo^^ft « ; 

^ ifii 
I i u ^ a qua dea ' 

"1 •» in I A h<y v?» • 

C lit 






3. 



£121391 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1355 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



0„U<,. den 5. .iprfl 194^ 



Av.t Voriadunj; crischeir.t dcr Kusao 

G o d o n o V) , JCttSiiia. 

CCb. 8iii S"! ,10 ,.1877 In :;owo-Hr tel:l., 

vcrh,. ^> Kinder. 

iisr.d-.vii-i;; 

vjchrhnft scit Cuburt in ;:o',vo-I.B-tel:i, Ilcua ohnc 

pa i>v e H OS , 

erkirrt folr^endess 

Sett l^xs r.'iirde ichals StalHti'.ocM- bel dicr "olc;:occ 
lu Kcwo-Betek.r 3eschl*;*t Irt . /.lloii Bc\7C-hncii2 dci- Un,.;ei^r.nd 

■bexiutzt rwa'ds,' Ich or.li-v.er'e .'jich r.oc.is. <:l«s£; la Jt-itrc i""; 
fiWS deal Dorf Uctyl}:!. Sirs. Kci-jp"' A j •:;•; dlo Kr;oi Sfjimc deij 
Ixmn Z u T t 9 ti a n o w a S^'iao ,j:i, <-rifsag Jujji 19211k 
Kosi-eory erschoaseji >:?urdc'n, Als ica. cji diceca Ja^o c^gcn 
5 Ohr nsiije V.'shnung vcrllcsa, iim die ?ferdc e« fi',ttc-x>n. 
besegTiiste air s«l' dcr Rolltj^iwi ciu o.ffeacr I.,", ■,.■„, b^iaeJua 
nit 10 ^- 15 llami. vjeloher von icr '.'achcica >:c-.',-:cht u'lU'cc, 
Bclja Torbeifchrcn curclc icti vo;i r.;ci .'■.■.--■ ru nit den '.Vovlejj 
*Xuf ^ie^.ers-elien. On.:?!" rr.jcrurtn. J;:-i .a'>r<;-;'.„c i^ofni-t 
die ixjldeii Sdhni? des Irjsn "i;.rtsch?.:cf>ia> .'.Ir; ich u'v.cTMir 
a*7el fi>ahen nachh^r Ale '51 1. uvu t'or Si^achosse^K-n ti-af. iT^-irdo 
seiiie I.!utiaassit'n,r; >j8stati^ft. tedaa si« erlcMrten. fjs vnix'o 
ihnsn aitijcto'lt rjorden. dass ifcre belden SShnc la I'.osL. 
Gory erscnoct!3n ■,-'ur«Sffu, 

l-iii^fi'Ti-hr .l-tt<j JiriB I'-l?.! wmxlo in Sori" 3:*ri'.binkl. lire. 
Jt8S|a.iBn.?k der Tcodor 1 (3 a t o c h e n :: <> •.,. cticj'i'^'.i n 
<?ui'<::h die Ti;i'h^ta vc-rhaflct y.nd in SaiolensJ; ui».vch die "'ff^A. 
fcs* st!a Todo vorui'tollt. "^ie aii* Bl c«''>'n dcs J, ciir er- 
S,^Mlt0n, noXl ihr Soto Psodor ebenfslla in ICosi-.'Jroif <3r - 



mun 



1356 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 



Das ralS^^filf^ncic I'osl-CJOi^ Jiu-...':.o <..i. z -. ■.. .son .,l-U, 
'.■Qrc'oru IJ:',n'*civ r?f,l^h« iort Pilce euoht*n. r-i— •-^t ■-•_ .■---, 

.Ins Hueaiache itbor^tttzt uijij yv>'t;-jlc3-jr. , 



I424S9S 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1357 

Exhibit 24 — Continued 

O.U.J Cd'.-. fs. ITTti 1?^3 



Aft 



^'b-ii- ;. ;' .'- 






■-' '■'■-'-' iJ-'O. ■- .;: ■•.■n^e 

a.. ;'^,r ..v"/' ., - ■ „ rf^hrt 

von .J. tcl::-!: ) , .-.c^ ■ 

Von ciiicr /.u:;Jai;i:rt . . . ,_ ; '(.b; 

noldet, decs; in aei- r:.-.^--i:r_:-.;; vc ■. re'.;,'/. : .-c'r^ '.-. -j-cnd 

Polcn vcr;;:rrbcn cI-kIj nio ir. dc- T'op-t'c ,j. -■\/:;i lO/'C 

aarci; /.n;:tUKri -i; ;l ;r ii.,,!) (:cr\, r ■ •• . :. .icn, 

in C.cu '..'. ld.,'jcIrr.c';C r-orcio" i-,/'\' ^o ;'cn Cr^or '. ^.'y; l.'iii- 
den 3ich nehi-cro s.xif(:,c'.:o..\'.'^y! "i-jel, ivitcv Jor^R fi^' 
vergralsonen I-cichi>n lie-jon. v^or. f'oo iioO .■■!■ 'i-o.'to:j !-.o: -- 
te nnr ein 3^ucfe vci 2 K\,i-in ^uadria ru.' --:r;::\ ;u ■: ::;;.;oJ. 
freiecle^t \^oj-.. -ii. Ik ' ;.; iricre nurcen :.:oh, ore -/i-M 

2eil bei-cita iu V^rr/es-.-ii,;; VbC'-'.'js.-jcr^ci: cir.<', . ; ■ cli I'^jjc 

mehreror. Sclucli;;en ■'Ijcreir.cr.i^oi' lic:;.--r.. Yon A--:.- Bchl<:i»- 
cviiz cluci' Lcicbc •.urdc c-lr. '"'.-.Oivr ontfo-'nt, nui' deE aish 
der j^laiacjic A lax* beTl.nr;'^. lr.\:iouoi'. '/ .■•nti-'i boIkii^ 
der Lelchs vorlio.^jt, ksr.*: era i c'.vrch .err.fcn-:cen crSceca-c:-; 

a.«y d«?r I' 'Jhfcsrortc Mcrsa vo.Mo.i.iori. So safjt oia ?2 
Jgbafij-jer Eiises ans, fiass a-ich in Cor. ",;-7ici.';5li'r.dc ac<i(- 
Otna iO Jr-hrcjft ein Smrtorliaa ^"v feSher*; :..„'.) I'ca-r.c 
5>«fao4an kat*. 2J«r Zutr-itt su ('on tsi-;, ^' ;rc;.j:-'rr;:t vr- 

1»«fa^«fj v«p:)Otcn. T...T r.uosc r,-iXl ii"; V.vV: ;.;. in- 1S'<0 
ss«lar«r« sooaaa tr.;:;3.ich 5-4 vci-iJcMoGcciia Ira- ;;esGh..>, 

4»?? |.^;Sea«if xwA d&e SchiaB'^en wlXl or i.jv.vlla jifcoh den 



illlStI 



1358 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 24 — rontiiinefl 



SmJeiJoyvon ku3 (l<sm laalrafi'.&nCQn '..■ M is: ooinor 8«t~ 
•Xoi-nt lio[)<iiv'.en ;,'oi»ittrta ^t^fivt fcunljon* 

I':, oil den :;i'Zf'JiiiJiii;e«i endcrer soil os oioh taa r.w<i 
10^000 r ,.-eoftc« lit^pAcln. 

g<2W08oner Bi^i-.-.-otacr BBC'S a«*3» es cetea In don Tonaten ;'| 
l31rKAp?41 1540 -tt'^-llei: 9 bic 12 Gc;rer.^encnviaGen (MucrH- «| 

Mo Js!i caaon ^ollcn polrJ.DCtea Soldatcn, liiviliatcri und 'j 
C-aiotlichc ccivoser. ^;eiu. Auch cy «111 1joo33acht0t kr.bcn, ^ti 
fiesta oir Abtrcj^aprrfc in c-ijgc'iloseonoa Ito. in PJLch^xmg i 

Ay2i3ns«a£;efi Ufcsr fiio IJ^" chiuasiuiijcn lcIIjcI; sind ,^^ 

Hoorcs^uppe Ili-i.c Tiftter Einncis car die ;:oclici"-heit 
der propccendistisohon Aunvmrtrinj; *r:v.'0ch3 Sr.-itjchctdvjcc 

TOs dort lot cliiQ Abschrif-i; c;: <1 y OKH T,>c?;t<:i'£;Qi«-*i-" 
t«t, -dc3 ilbor cUc AiiGv/erti'Tsg enVjcheitlo;" ooil; cine 
ss*ei1;« ^bsciiyift let dem iciteadeu sJcriciittTioclsiiior 
Praf.Br.SsKtta fceia Heo?csci-tippcr;3rst lur Kcnntc ionstoe 

Scol?. Biis-setic w»ite5?er %:itsvxie ■, erden c'ic ; rs jrafcuti- | 
Ufta water Bo-fe«iliC«»S <ieo l: of.J>r,Bv'Jitn vjid t'er propa- | 

(Vosc) .- I 

FcletpoiizeiGcirrct-'r , ? 



CI2IS05 



■^sHJ 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1359 

[Tnuiislation of Exhibit 24] 

German Foreign Office Berlin 15 April 1943 

Kult Pol L VI 6716 Knrfiir.stenstr. 137 

Annexes 

Conoernins : Discovery of ninss gnives of nmrdered Polish Officers. 

To the German Embassy — Bern. 

In the annex will be found pliotographs which were sent of murdered Polish 
officers discovered in the forest at Katyn and copies of the examinations of local 
Russians. 

The photographs show : 

1) A view of the site of discovery 

2) Position of corpses in the mass graves 

,3) Single corpses, the hands tied behind backs 

4) One corpse wath the tunic and hands tied together above the head 

All photographs concern the bodies of murdered Polish officers. 
From the statements of the Russians it can be deducted : 

1) The site w^as from 1918-1929 an execution ground belonging to GPU 

2) In March and April 1940 thousands of Polish officers, a few Polish 
civilians, suspected members of the intelligentsia as well as several Polish 
clergy, were brought daily in columns to the place of execution. The Poles 
allegedly came from the prison camp in Kosielsk, were brought by train to 
Gniesdowe and were there loaded onto lorries. 

The following comment can be made on the circumstances leading up to the 
discovery : In the siuumer of 1942 Polish members of the Wehrmachtsgefolges 
heard that Poles had been deported to the place in question. On their own 
initiative they dug, found several corpses, marked the place with a wooden cross 
but made no rei>ort in spite of their discovery. In February 1943 the Secret 
Security Forces [end of sheet 5827/E424381] heard rumours about an alleged 
mass grave, inspected the indicated spot in March, and began major excavation 
at the beginning of April as soon as the weather allowed. 

Until April 6th digging experiments were made in seven different places, and 
all these led to the discovery of corpses. 

Until now only a few of the Polish and Russian graves have been opened. 
The largest Polish grave had been opened to a length of twenty-eight meters and 
breadth of sixteen meters by April 11 th. 250 corpses lie in twelve layers one on 
top of the other. In this one grave 2.000-3.000 Polish officers ought to by lying. 
Close by is a wider grave in which apparently Polish staff officers were buried. 
The corpses lie face downwards and all show shots in the neck, according to 
present examinations. 

One section of the officers v.ho were found in another grave again a few meters 
'away, had their hands tied behind their backs ; a few had uniform tunics or 
sacks tied over their heads. 

With a few e3:ceptions the officers had no valuables on them, but in nearly every 
case identity cards and papers w'ere found. 

By April 11th, 160 corpses had been taken out of the graves and identified. 
Among these were two Polish generals, Brigadier-General Smorawinsky, Mecy- 
slaw of Lublin PI, Litwenski 3 and General Bronislaw Bogaterewitsch. Until 
now all ranks of officers from lieutenant to general have been identified. A 
strikingly large section of the officers are wearing the traditional braid of the 
Pilsudski Regiments. Of the corpses in the Polish mass graves it is estimated 
that 90% are officers, [end of sheet E4243821 The total number of buried 
Polish corpses in the said woodland is estimated (on the gi'ounds of statements 
made by civilian persons about the constant unloading in March and April 1940) 
at about 10,000. 

The corpses wei'e examined by forensic pathologists of Army Group Mitte and 
the report will be made as soon as possible. It will give information about pos- 
sible mutilations and the exact nature of the shooting. Mutilations on the 160 
corpses could not be determined. The position of the corpses indicates that the 
officers were forced to climb into the grave and to lie down in it. Only the 
cori ses in the upper layer were found lying obliquely one on top of the other, from 
which fact it can be assumed that they were thrown into the grave after being 
shot. 



1360 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 24 — Continued] 

Only a small section of the Russian graves have been opened so far, but here 
also I could see that sacks had been tied over the heads of some corpses ; a few 
had their mouths stuffed with sawdust. 

The exhumations are being continued but probably only until the beginning of 
May, as then the graves have to be closed because of fear of epidemic at the entry 
of warmer weather. 

It is suggested that you should make as much public use of this as possible. 

By order 

Six 
[End of sheet E424383] 



O. U. the 27 February 1943 

On verbal invitation, appeared the Russian, 
Kieselow, Parfeon, 
72 years old, 
Farmer 

Resident in Kosegorie 
and declared, on interrogation, the following, 

"Since 1907 I have lived in Kosegorie. Approximately ten years ago, the 
castle and the woodland was first used as a sauitorium for senior NKVD offi- 
cials. The whole wooded area was surrounded by barbed wire to the height of 
about two metres. Moreover everything was guarded by armed sentries. No 
civilians were allowed entry. I did not know any of the officials, only the 
house servant, who was also watchman. His name was Roman Sergejewitsch, 
allegedly from Vjasmir. 

"In the spring of 1940, daily, for four to five weeks, three to four lorries 
loaded with people were brought to the woodland and there presumably shot, 
by the NKVD. The lorries were closed, so that no one could see what they con- 
tained. One day, as I was standing on Gniesdowa station, I saw men dis- 
mounting from the train and getting into the familiar lorries, which drove away 
in the direction of the wood. What happened to the men, I could not say, as 
no one dared to go near. The sounds of shots and men screaming could be 
heard in my house. It is to be assumed that the men were shot. In the vicin- 
ity no bones were made of the fact that Poles had been shot by the NKVD. The 
people in the village said that about 10,000 Poles were shot. After the area had 
been occupied by German troops, I went into the wood to convince myself. I 
was of the opinion that I might find some corpses 

[end of 5827/E424384] 

but in vain, because I found only a few thrown up mounds. I was convinced 
that the dead could only be lying under the mounds. In the summer of 1942, 
certain Poles were with a German unit at Gniesdowa. One day ten of them 
came to me and asked me to show them where their countrymen, who had been 
shot by the NKVD, were buried. I led them to the wooded site and showed 
them the new mound. The Poles then asked me to lend them a hoe and a spade, 
which I did. After about an hour, they came to me very indignant and abusive 
of the NKVD. They explained that in one of the mounds they had found corpses. 
They marked the spot with two crosses made of birchwood which are there to 
this day. 

"L am unable to make any further statement." 

Translated into Russian and read aloud. 

Sealed xyz signed xyz 

Sergt of Hilfspolizei 

Interpreter xyz 

NCO 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1361 

[Translation of Exhibit 24 — Continued] 

[5827/E424386] 

O. U. the 6 April 19^3. 
Before the local headquarters appeared the Russian 

Sehigulow, Michail 

Bora 10 Jan 1915 in Novo Bateki 

Resident there in House No. 16 

Married, one child, no party. 

Since 1942, with the Russian OD 
and stated : 

"Already as a child I heard that people from Smolensk prison were taken to 
the wood near Kosigorie and were there shot. I often saw open powered trucks on 
the highway on which prisoners under guard were transported, coming from 
Smolensk and travelling in the direction of Kosigorie. 

"One day in 1927 I, together with some other village boys, was looking after 
horses. We saw a powered truck coming from the direction of Smolensk and 
stopping on the highway near the Kosigorie wood. Eleven people dismounted and 
were led off into the woodland. A short time after this we heard shots ; again 
after some time the guards came back and the truck returned in the direction of 
Smolensk. Out of curiosity we boys ran into the wood in order to examine moi'e 
closely the spot where people had been shot. I myself lost courage before reach- 
ing the spot and remained behind. Afterwards the others told me that they had 
found the grave. On the edge of it they had seen very fresh bloodstains. And 
moreover, the corpses had only been covered with a little earth so that they saw 
hands and feet sticking out. 

"I should like to comment that at this time the woodland near Kosegorie was 
not shut off. The boys with whom I was at Kosegorie at that time were all con- 
scripted into the Red Army." 

Translated into Russian and read before me. 

Signature Signed 

N. C. O. and Auxiliary Eichholz 

Policeman N. C. 0. and Interpreter. 

[5827/E4243S7] 

O. U. 6 April 19J,3. 

On invitation the Russian Sladkow, Alexei, appeared, born 17.3.1875 in 
Chorowschawa, County Demodow, resident in Krassny-Bor, House No 75 and 
deposed. 

"I lived in the years 1939^1 in Novo Bateki and travelled by train to Smolensk 
every day where I worked. In this way I had the oportunity to witness the 
transfer of the Poles to Kosiel Gorie with my own eyes. One day in March 
1940 four or five passenger coaches (Luxus wagons) stood on a railway siding 
of the Gnesdowa station, in the vicinity of the loading platform. The pas- 
sengers were not allowed to leave the carriages and two armed sentries stood 
in front of them. I myself passed the carriage and saw oflScers and civilians 
sitting at tables on which were bottles of wine and various types of food, 
such as sausage and ham. The passengers were mostly civilians with a few 
women among them. They were all well-fed and decently dressed and from 
this already recognizable as foreigners. Women from Bateki had to carry 
water to the carriages but were not allowed to enter them. I was also witness 
when in the evening a section of the passengers were loaded onto two trucks. 
They all had heavy suitcases with them and a few also carried cushions under 
their arms. The unloading was continued for four to five days until the car- 
riages were empty. The carriages disappeared during the night and after eight 
days they were again on the same spot, fully occupied. This performance was 
repeated unceasingly in March and April 1940. At that time tJie local popula- 
tion described these people as 'Polish hostages'. 

"I am unable to make any further statement." 

Translated into Russian and read aloud (to me) 

Signature. 
Witnessed 
Interpreter Boscke 

Special officer NCO and Auxiliary 

Signature. Policeman 



1362 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 24 — Continued] 

[5S27/E4243S8] 

O. U. the 21 Feb 19J,3 
On invitation appeared the Russian, 
Griwasorzow Iwan, 
Born on 20.<<>.1916 in Nowo Bateki 
- resident there House No 119 
Turner 
Bachelor 
Non party 

employed since July 1942 with Russian OD 
and made the following statement: — 

"In the year 1940 I was working in the village Gniesdowa on the collective 
farm. As my job was quite near the railway I noticed in March and April 1940 
three to four trains consisting of three to four carriages which I recognised 
from the barred windows as obvious prison carriages, coming daily from 
Smolensk. These prison cai-riages stopped at Gniesdowa station. My sister 
Daria then told me that she herself had seen Polish soldiers, civilians and a f<>w 
clergy leaving the carriages and being loaded into closed trucks. Generally 
one heard that the lorries had been driven to Kosigorie by the NKVD and that 
there the people had been shot. I myself saw nothing of this and my sister 
did not go into further details. 

"I am unable to give further information." 

Translated into Russian and read before me. 

Signature 
Sealed Interpreter 

Signature Eichholz 

IslCO and Auxiliary Policeman NCO 

Note. The sister of Griwasorzow, Iwan, at the approach of German troops 
to drive cattle from the collective farm was kidnapped by the Bolshevists and her 
present whereabouts are unknown. 

Signed 

NCO and AuxiJiarn Policeman 



[5827/E4243S9] 

O. U. the 5 April 19.',3 
The Russian citizen 

Kriwoserzew, Ivan, 
horn 20.7.1915 in Nove Bateki 
Bachelor 
Ironworker 

resident in Novo Bateki House no 119 
County Smolensk. 
Non party 

since Juli 1942 and OD man. 
appeared at the office and made this statement : — 

"From my parents, who are well known in the village, I heard that the woodland 
of Kosi-Gory (Goats' Hill) has been used as a place of execution since 1918 first 
by the Tscheka, then the GPU. OGPU and later by the NKVD. 

"rnfil ]9:U we, tlie villagers, were allowed to walk in the woodland and to 
gather mushrooms and berries. As a boy I jiicked mushrooms in Kosi-Gory. On 
this occasion I was repeatedly shown the new graves by the older people. 

"In 19.^1 the woodhmd of Kosi-Gory was fenced in and entry i)rohibited by 
notice-boards signed by the OGPU. I heard that in 19:U a large house was built 
inside the wooded area which was meant as a sanatorium for the NKVD. 

"Executions were carried out in Kosigorie from lt)18 to 192;) and from 1940 
onwards. In the intervening period no transport lorries were seen to drive into 
tbe area. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1363 

[Translation of Exhibit 24 — Continued] 

''From 1940 the woodland was additionally guarded by sentries and dogs. lu 
March and April 19-10 many prison transport waggons arrived in Gniesdowa ; the 
prisoners were cooped up into prison lorries commonly known as "black raven' 
and the lorries then travelled along the road from Gniesdowa station in the 
direction of Katyn. I never heard any shots 

[end of 5S27/E4243S9] 

from the Kosi Gory wood." 

Translated into Russian and read before me. 

Signature 

E424390 
Sealed - Interpreter 

HOHNE ElCHHOLZ 

Corporal of Aux Police NCO 

[5827/ E4243yi] 

O. U. the 28 Fchriiarij 19-'t3 
On Invitation appeared the Russian 
Audrejew, Ivan 

born on 22.1.1917 in Nove Bateki 
Resident there House No. 2. 
Locksmith 
married 
Non partj' 
and made as witness the following; statement : — 

'•Approximately from the middle of March until the middle of April 1940, three 
to four trains arrived daily in Gniesdowa. Two to three carriages of each were 
decidedly arrest carriages. These stopped at the station. Passengers who were 
mostly Polish soldiers whom I recognised from their caps, as well as civilians 
were taken from the carriages and loaded into closed lorries. The lorries were 
driven along the station i-oad towards the railway and then turned left in the 
direction of Katyn. I noticed several times that thev turned off the highway two 
and a half kilometres from here and were driven in the direction of Kosigory 
I never saw it myself but heard several times, that these people were shot in 
Kosigory by the NKVD. 

"I am unable to make any further statement." 
Translated into Russian and read before me. 
Sealed 

NCO and Aiix Policeman Interpreter 

NCO 



[5827/E424392J 

^ . .^ ^. , ^, O. U. the 5 April 19J,3 

On invitation appeared the Russian 
Godonow, Kusma 
born on 25.10.1877 in Nowo- Bateki 
Married Five children 
Farmer 

Resident since birth in Nowo Bateki House without number 
Non Party, 
and made the following declaration : — 

"Since 1918 I have been employed as an ostler on the collective farm at Novo 
Bateki. It was known to all the people in the neighbourhood that Kosigorie 
''7'''^^\l^''^S nsea as a place of execution by the Tscheka. I still remember that 
m 1921 between the end of May and the beginning of June, the two sons of Ivan 



1364 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 24 — Continued] 

Kurtschanowa from the village of Satylkl, County Kaspliansk, were shot in 
Kosigori. As I left my house on that day at about three o'clock, to feed the 
horses, I was met on the highway by an open truck loaded with ten to fifteen 
men all guarded by the Tscheka. As it passed two of the men called to me 
'(Joodbye Uncle!' I immediately recognised the two sons of Ivan Kortschanowa. 
When I met their parents about two weeks later, my suspicions were confirmed 
because they had been informed that their two sons had been shot in Kosigorie. 
"Approximately in the middle of July, Feodor Isatschenkow was also arrested 
in the village of Sarubinki, County Kasplianski, and sentenced to death by the 
'Troika', in Smolensk. His parents told me that their son Feodor was also shot 
at Kosigorie. 

[End of 5827/E424392] 

"The reasons for the shoo'tings are unknown to me. Judging by the state- 
ments of the parents and acquaintances, the victims were anticommunistically 
inclined. 

"When executions were not taking place, the Kosigorie woodland was open 
to all until 1931. Children who gathered mushrooms there always told of new 
gravemounds. 

"I am unable to give further information." 
Translated into Russian and read before me 

(Signed) Klodtnof 
424393 
Sealed 
S(/t of Aux Police 

Interpreter 

NCO 



[5827/E424394.5.] 

O. U. 4 March 194S 
To: Secret Field Police Group 570 via Aok 4. 

Subject : Discovery of a Massgrave of Poles shot in 1940 by the NKVD, in the 
wooded area by the road Smolensk Motor road (approach from Vitezsk) 
North East of Katyn. 

At the beginning of February it was reported by a contact, that in the vicinity 
of Katyn sevei'al thousand Poles are buried, having been shot by members of 
the NKVD in April and May 1940. 

Investigations revealed the truth of the statement. In the woodland north 
of Katyn there were several thrown-up mounds under which lie the buried corpses. 
Because of ground frost only a part two metres square could be lancovered of one 
of the mounds. At a depth of two metres numerous corpses were found lying 
close together, decomposition having set in for the greater part. Judging by the 
position of the bodies it must be assumed that they are lying in several layers, 
one above the other. A button bearing the Polish Eagle was removed from the 
clothes of one of the corpses. How far the corpse shows mutilation, can only be 
determined by excavations carried out on a larger scale. 

In order to discover details, several inhabitants of the neighbouring locality 
were interrogated. A 72 year old Russian states that a sanitorium for senior 
NKVD ofiicials has been situated in the woodland for about ten years. Entrance 
to the area, fenced in and guarded by sentries, was prohibited to unauthorised 
persons. Daily for several weeks in the spring of 1940 the Russians saw three 
to four closed lorries on which the people who were later shot were transported 
from Gniesdowa station to the woodland in question. At times he heard men's 
screams and shooting 

[end of 5827/E424394] 
coming from the wood in question, in his house which was a considerable dis- 
tance away. 

According to the reports of others, about 10,000 people seem to have been 
involved. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1365 

[Translation of Exhibit 24 — Continued] 

Another inhabitant who was at the time employed on the unloading station 
states, that in the months of March and April 1940, daily nine to twelve prison 
waggons arrived at the Gniesdowa station. Passengers are reported to have 
been Polish soldiers, civilians, and a few clergy. He also noticed that they were 
talien away in closed lorries in the direction of Katyn. 

A third inhabitant of the locality made a similar statement. 

Eyewitnesses of the shooting itself have so far not been discovered. 

The original of the previous report has been laid before the Ic/AO of 
Army Group Mitte. with a reference to the possibility of its use for propaganda 
purposes, for his decision. 

From there a copy was sent to the Supreme Army Command (OKH) for a 
decision on its use : a second copy was passed for information to the senior 
forensic pathologist Professor Dr. Buhtz at the Medical Army Group. 

After the arrival of further instructions the exhumations will be carried out 
with the participation of Professor Dr. Buhtz and Propaganda Section W. 

Voss, 
Secretary 
Field Police 

Mr. Flood. I now show you exhibit No. 25, a document which has 
been marked for identification, and I ask you to describe what it is 
and give your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is elated the I7th of April 1943, and it is a memo- 
randum by the State Secretary of the German Foreign Ministry, 
Weizsaecker, and it records that Hitler has ordered an additional 
appeal to the Red Cross in Geneva, this appeal to be signed by the 
Duke of Coburg, head of the German Red Cross and well-known 
abroad. Hitler's directive was his own idea after he had heard of 
the activity of the Polish ex-Government in the same matter. The 
Duke of Coburg's telegram already should have reached Geneva. 



1366 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 25 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 25 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 25 



Berlia. den 17. April 1943. 
St.S,Ko. 245 .:■ 



la Yerfolg der rorgastera tob Deutschen Rotea 
£r«i<jz aach Gsaf gftfichtetea Aufforderueg, cae Interaatio- 
Esle Bote Sreus acJga sicb. aa der Feststallucg der ruseischeo 
Sr$u©3,tat©ii aa polsiisohefi. Offizierea beteiligea, hat dsr 
liajrdr hdut'5 Uacht sica isusgtislicba iuf forderuag des Deut- 
«chea Hoten Kr&uxsa nach Senf aageordast, X>ieB« zusSts- - 
11 Che iM.fior'iar-aag wars roa Eerzog yob Colmrg zu uQi6r~ 
s^icha'dR, dead-t desaoa intoraBtioaal bekaanter Saae aim 

Die SeisuQg des Pekrars wsr eiae spoctane, aacb- 
d«« ihffi die iJeldOEg- ,<^r Betatigur^ der Polaiachsa £x~Segi&- 
x\^s^ la der gieiubca Ss^clie rem BaichapTessechei Tcrgelsgt 
»-i3ydea war. 

Die SackrlsM iibor die Ajaordaucg- 5«8 PtJljrera iat 
«df h«uts SacM t&h Presi mitget-eJli wordeu. Das Telegs'asao 
des Hsrzogs, daa air dabs>i wrge39s<»n «urde, diirfte h*«4« 
»■' ',«^ ,.' • ■ ■ ,/''■/ ^■'' ''' • ■• ' 
gezs Weizsicksr* 






Herra Botsohaf ter vcr. Riat^lea 
HeiryiK Br» M e ;;,• & r i e ^,, 



% 






/'A 



^,■,-■1 C'Vs.Ci 



■<^/ 



,..a 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1367 

[Translation of Exhibit 25] 

[50/33687] 

Berlin 11 April 19-'i3 
St[ate] SLeeretary] No. 243 At once! 

In following np the invitation issued by the German Red Cross to Geneva, 
that the International Red Cross should take part in the identification of the 
Russian atrocities against Polish officers, the Fiihrer tonight has ordered an addi- 
tional invitation to be dispatched to Geneva by the German Red Cross. This 
extra invitation is to be signed by the Duke of Coburg, .so that the weight of his 
international name should be used. 

The Fiihrer's instructions were made on his own initiative after the report of 
the activity on similar lines of the Polish ex-government had been submitted to 
him by the Reich Press Chief. 

The information of the Fiihrer's order was given to me tonight by the Pro- 
paganda Ministry. The Duke's telegram which was read out to me at the same 
time should by now have reached Geneva. 

(Signed) Weizsackee. 
Telephone to 

Ambassador von Rintelen 
Dr Megerle 

Weizsiicker 17 [April] 
Copy to 

Legation Counsellor Roediger 

Press Department 

Professor Six 

Political Under Secretary of State. 

[50/33687] 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 26 and I ask you to describe wliat it is and give your 
summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the I7th of April 1943, and it is a memo- 
randum by an official of the legal department, Roediger, for Ribben- 
trop. The International Red Cross, in reply to the German Red 
Cross telegram of April 15, say they can only participate in identi- 
fication proceedings if all interested parties request them to do so, 
in accordance with tlie memorandum of September 12, 1939. 



93744 — 52 — pt. 5 10 



1368 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 26 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 26 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 26 



dm3>'ia &»T )ftM* ^•'P «.a<5s4etea ^olaitanan ;>rfl8t«T9 iJ^toh | 
tt»ls© Xeai^««« TOW aotwB &r«»» saf £*» T»l*<?r««H *«• «<!»*«• 1 

«is4 esi!tstr¥$licJj 44»!«3tiflsi*?l;8 «ilitSrp«r»*7S«a b»tr<» f f *»« , 
B«( essRdw! Aos»b<*yif *» "lit rae»!ri*et«A *'♦.;« !'.«ls«ff«ul'»it«8 
ets? Oi^ejf-wn ktinnX^ ":f>gi}t«» "«ilflalt«« aa Identif i:«;itior>c- '- 

*« «#4 8ltKtlleii«6 b^if^Hig'-cB «♦«!.?•* tfit»r/ iota »af««t'«>rderl! ; 

A« 14. A&vll iJ.lo Uiir ia t;«Rf «ts/<f3i5»b<in «->r»i»B. -;« let ; 

*ld*«»««**r «*«M»lJ!?t*n f.r*a-ih*au Amr poI«lt'at»a '^.«il***?t»f^j| 
•» 4«» iAt*rn».H0ml« Ro«4t«9 *rt lit «s>rd«r» ic-t. ' 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1369 

[Translation of Exhibit 261 
[50/33689] 

General Director Hartmann of the Presidium of tlie German Red Cross has 
just informed me by telephone that in the question of the Polish officers murdered 
by the Russians a telegram from the International Committee of the Red Cross in 
reply to the telegram of the German Red Cross of the 15 April, with the following 
text has been received : 

"In acknowledgement of your telegramm No. 466. 

The International Committee of the Red Cross is, according to its practice, 
willingly prepared to relay as quickly as possible any information concerning 
missing and subsequently identified military personnel to their relatives. How- 
ever the Committee can only consider taking part in identification proceedings 
by recommending experts, if it is approached in this sense by all parties involved, 
as this is defined in the memorandum of the 12 Sept 1939. 

Max Hxjbee, Intercroixrouge" 

According to Mr. Hartmann the telegram was despatched from Geneva on the 
16 April at 1910 hrs. It cannot be determined whether the answer of the Inter- 
national Committee of the Red Cross was issued before or after the reception of 
the invitation of the Polish exile Government reported by Globereuter. 
Herewith 

to the Secretary of State 

for submission to Foreign Minister 

Berlin the 17 April 1943 

(signed) Roedigeb. 
[50/33689] 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 27 and I ask you to describe what it is and to give your 
your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 19th of April 1943, from an official 
on Kibbentrop's personal staff, Megerle, to the German Legations in 
Budapest and Geneva. He wants to know if reputable people among 
the Poles in exile can be found who can be sent, expenses paid, to 
view the Katyn scene and who can be trusted not to distort their 
experiences so as to support another thesis at some later date, people 
of known anti-Bolshevist and anti-Semitic views preferred. 



1370 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 27 is in evidence. 
(P^xliibit 27 is as follows:) 

ExHi]!ir 27 



Qoiter fr.792 an BiDioge^aa 
w«iierg8leit8t > 






Fuscbl, d^a 19. Ajrll 1945 25,C6 tSr 
>^ui£ifti 19, * * ,,24,00 • 



Sr, 491 TOs 1^. 4 . 






1) Biplogeina Bud&|k«B"t 

2) Kon8JJ§«?T» 6 e E I 
tftl. 1. Ziff, ( fifib, Oh, V, ) 



^ Pr«ss« •~~- 



Ijp, f»Ot. ^«»"' 






jiiessaita Bird «raog8K, aijalgea naaiialiwa ]paiai- 

ttoa 5ts gJSglishit«ti sa ssbsB, «ii>fc ^surafe 
A?;g«saioji«5.fl tan im Siclitt.^^it Sc~ d«atffcij*s ; 
Mjpibijsa Sb^r dsB Lsl&fe^afBaid ia faid$ res 

p6rfrStjlichS6tt«D is doyiXges .Istsheraxftb vor- ^ 
iiiicdaa fliod. Babei msS sioiisa'gsstsllt aein, 
isB di*«s F«r$oa«n, d«a«s frsiias S^l-sit »«!?••» 
sicfe^rt »ird, spftter i»iE*u S&Sbraaob ait 

J &*lf^aJieit bisaui«©&, spfii^r aad9t» fbeawa 
,-/ asjstt«<Jha«idea, J?«soii!i4>r« eig^wa «ich sasti «' 

U PMr»os9B odor 8oXob$, die darob ^e B<^1tstolb» 

«i»i»Q 79r»iiiidt« od«r ItM«!7ad«a T«rl9r«aL h^ 



. 33595 






THffi KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1371 

ExHiBii 27 — Continued 



Etwft^a sa i). Sleiebs Aiifrag* ©rgeiji as &>asul»t 8«nf. 

2a«at« au 2). -Slaicbs ^afifs^ ©rgshi sa S««aa^t»oQftft • 

BudaiJcat. {Sgi.sa 2> issa Sis «s far 

liegerle. 



saaii 



1372 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 27] 

[50/33695,6.] 

[Telegram] 

[Code] 

To be treated 
as secret. 
Fuschl the 19 April 1943 23,05 Hrs 
Arrival the 19 April 1943 24,00 Hrs. 

Note. 

Relayed to Diplo germa 

Budapest as No 792 

to Consugerma Geneva 

as No 107. 

Berlin 20.4.43. 

Cipher Office No 491 of 19.4. Most Urgent 

1) Diplogerma Budapest 

2) Ck)nsugerma Geneva 

Telegram in Code (Secret Code Procedure) 
It is being considered here, whether to give certain individual Polish per- 
sonalities of the emigration abroad the opportunity to convince themselves with 
their own eyes of the correctness of the German reports of the discovery of 
corpses in the woods of Katyu. You are requested to report by return post 
whether the presuppositions for such an action are to be found in your areas 
and whether suitable personalities are available in the area covered by your 
office. At the same time you must make certain that these people to whom safe 
conduct is to be guaranteed, will not make wrong use later of their experiences, 
especially that they will not report the opposite of what they have seen and do 
not use the opportunity to breach other subjects afterwards. Those who most 
recommend themselves are persons of anti-bolshevik or anti-semitic convictions 
or those who suspect that they have lost relatives or comrades through the 
Bolshevists or in Katyn. For this journey 

[end of 50/33695] 

[50/33696] 
about four people are necessary. 

Postscript for 1) Same query directed to Consulate at Geneva. 
Postscript for 2) Same query directed to Legation Budapest 
(Also for No 2) If you consider it expedient and likely to be helpful, it is 
left to you to make confidential contact with Professor Burckhardt concerning 
names and selection. 

]Megerle. 
St.S. Keppler 
U.St.S. Pol 
U.St.S,R 
Amb Ritter 
Director Pers Dpt 
Econ Dpt 
Cult Dpt 
Press 
Radio 
Inf 
Head Protocol! 
Director Pol 
Working Copy 
with Cult Dpt. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1373 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 28 and I ask you to describe what it is and to give your 
summary of it. 

Dr. Sa\t:et. Exhibit 28 is dated the 29th of April 1943, from the 
head of the Cultural Policy Department, Six, to the German Lega- 
tion in Bern. The Reich health leader wants an invitation to be 
given to Professor Zanger in Zurich to join a commission of inter- 
national experts to go to Katyn to examine the evidence, and particu- 
larly to give a scientific report establishing the time when the burials 
were made. They should be in Berlin by April 27, ready to fiy to 
Katyn the next day. In case Zanger declines, the Bern Legation is 
to invite some other specialist in forensic medicine, preferably one 
of greatest international repute, who is, at the same time, friendly 
to Germany. 



1374 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exliibit No. 28 is now in evidence. 
(P]xhibit 28 is as folknvs :) 



KxiiTiar 2'^ 











■Siitzttttttft 






5l;pl''g<'iaa- B e r » 



T<«4t ao./pyil 194>» 



<3 I 2 J 3 S X W 

m4t Silk r^ ;tus» «i n a- wmmm v 



*«•♦ &ts 



:!fol5eiBd«r ilnlavlca^ «n ?x-of . 2 8 n « « r iii ZtU-iofe* 
:?«llat fi^eaar vsvbiyj'ieri; mt, odor eia» fvfcsage art«iXt» 

0«ylohVe»8di5iasr eixiBuladea, 

2,) ai0 StRl9duo« aoli in folgoBsiar Perm abermlttelt weMeas 
Har Beifthsgesarsiheitaf^ilu'ar IMt ear tellnalwae an «in»r 
KoaaXUKQD. intcractionciler jaohverstaaaijjQr aur Besiohtigoag 
van Sjatyn eio, Jircok der S©43« ist. Ferttsims eines vti88«3S»« 
90hflftl1.chaoi - dokaasentarisohen J'ur«it>e-rt<*it«e, ia be«o»&»r«ja 
tar fiatxtillwi^ &«s Eeitpuaktea 4er Eingraboag. 

5.) Jtarote die Herantraguiig in Foro einar Sinledang dea H»ioh9~ 
fp»»iWiihif>itat^T6XB 8013. d«r wiss^nschaftliohe Cij&rattar al«r 
SaohTarstattdi^eakoBaiBSlcn betoat aM darch dies* nioht- 
emtlitffeo Siuladaag gfientlioh« iWlokwirkong oisaos aefas ver- 
Bl«4«tx w«r4en. 

4«) P«r Abflag d*r KosMiseloa ©rfolgt am 28, April sit ?IugB«a£ 
©to B«xXUl« £iatrerf«n dar *2eiXnehJ»er iat >5is Sienstag 
2t»'-jp»*il ♦j»at««t>tt» ©rforderlich, Big Seatatlffi^tg dar 
Antte}W4M,fir.„|lnladting let nooh h«ute, dle];«a&u« AaJtunfto- 
)Wi» fei* J'r«lt(ig den gj./?*"!! «rforderlioh, Ss »ird «eb«t«a, 
d«» S#r/«o i>»l d»a Au«i-ei8«f0J?ti»Iit'itea 3*d« Dateratatsttns 



Six * 



mmt 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1375 

[Translation of Exhibit 28] 

[Noted on face of original :] [Stamped on face of original :] 

Urgent German Embassy Bern 

Arrival Annexes — None 

20 Apr. 1943 
File No. 2016 

[Telegram] 

Dispatch from Berlin the 20 April 1943 19 Hrs Min German Summer Time 
Arrival in Bern the 20 April 1943 18 Hrs Min Central European Time 

decoded: Code Procedure : S-G-Schr (NE) 

Diplogerma Berne 

Nr. 879 of : 20 April 1943. 

Most Urgent 

Secret. 

1). The Reich Leader of Health requests that the following invitation ue 
transmitted to Professor Zanger in Zurich. In case he is prevented from ac- 
cepting or gives a refusal, it will be left to your discretion to invite a suitable 
pro-German forensic pathologist, if possible of international reputation. 

2). The invitation is to be conveyed in the following form: The Reich Leader 
of Health invites you to take part in a commission of international experts for 
the inspection of Katyn. The purpose of the journey is tlie preparation of a 
scientifically documented report of discoveries, in particular the determination 
of the time of burial. 

3). In conveying this in the form of an invitation from the Reich Leader of 
Health you should emphasize the scientillc character of the commission of ex- 
perts, and by the unofficial character of the invitation avoid the ill-effects of a 
public refusal. 

4). The departure of the commission will take place by plane from Berlin 
on the 28 April. The arrival of participants is recommended before Tuesday 
the 27 April at the latest. The acceptance of the invitation must be dispatched 
today, and the exact time of arrival by Friday the 23d April. You are asked 
to give the gentlemen concerned the utmost support with travel formalities. 

Six* 

[5827/E424377] 

Mr. Flood. I now show you, Witness, a document marked for iden- 
tification as exliibit No. 29, and I ask you to describe what it is and 
give your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This document is dated the 26th of April 1943, from 
the German consulate in Geneva to the German Foreign Ministry. 
This transmits a telegram from the International Red Cross to the 
duke of Coburg, stating that the duke's telegram is still being studied. 
The consulate has been informed that the Red Cross committee is in 
a difficult position because delicate negotiations with the Russians on 
prisoners of war are in course and they are waiting for an answer from 
Molotov on this question. One of the experts on these matters in the 
consulate is of the opinion that the Russians will now use delaying 
tactics. 



1376 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 29 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit No. 29 is as follows :) 

ExiuiiiT 29 



?elegra»B 



{Oeh.Oh.Vor?.) 



Anitan.tt: 21, April 1945, *,X5 Uto 



as&^oaaiisaasa. 



*> 



S«c!it 



p%«fi«»«. 



'4**^ 



m^m 






Hit B»aag aaf Tslftgra^ Ir.HH'*'' tpo« X7. April 
JL»*«fa»ti©sal«« ltot*» greas bi%tet &b »«it«r- 

lac ]^s;tiitig»&$ 4nT SupSBCb* Sa«r«? fi2$ai3- 

4atSfon ia gl»tefc»y AegcX«ge»hdii r<m 17.<I.IL t-j 

tsit^;i'i9il^Sif Ss«« dc» Eoiiit«« I)tr» Aaragucj la Hia- 
mci. *M aXX 4is b«l?»ea*§«g*b«ii«fl ana sa «rwe««ndsn 

Dat*r«ohT-ii't 



r '^ 



^/ 



*i99 4«£S!£lila$ ttsA»&Hi>mM flll^a sat ki$nft9&, Durch 
?«3ne$fe?i«9$ eiac9t3F«t*ftt I^uFtiMr iiiMtts i>«fii«Si» eioh 

i^kM fs i«^j|^$«<llt»«| do«J»%ra(l*r(uis UQt«rhaDdXang«n 

WUm(fii«Ml^i»t>tT»m •N«»«r%«A, fib* •• dar<3h Sirif«b«n 
•of 4«»t«4M(*» Ir»»«lM»{» 0d«i*trfiJL«rtM« vor d«n Ko'pf stos- 



C 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1377 

Exhibit 29 — Continued 






337011 



1378 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 29] 

[50/33009,700] 

[Telegram] 

[Secret code procedure] 

Geneva the 20 April 1943 19,20 Hrs 
Arrival 21 April 1943 4,15 Hrs 

No 96 of 20.4.43 

Your Telegram Nr 104* of 17 April 

International lied Cross has requested relay of folloAving telegram : — 

His Royal Highness 
the Duke of Coburg 
President of the German Red Cross 

In acknowledgement of Your Royal Highness' Telegram and in referenc-e 
to our previous provisional answer in the same matter of the 17th of this 
month to Managing President Grawitz, I have the honour to inform you 
that the Committee is examining your suggestion in the light of all the 
published circumstances that need consideraticm 

(Signed) Max Huber 

At the delivery of the above telegram, the Minister Ruegger explained that 
the Committee hoped to come to a final decision in its session tomorrow. The 
illness of Huber and the absence abroad of Burckhardt had brought about a 
technical delay. Beyond that the Committee found itself in a difficult position 
in that it is at the same time in telegraphic exchange with the Soviet Government 
on the question of the prisoners of war in Russia. The Connuirtee fears that 
if it yields too quickly to the German and Polish reciuests, the Soviet Government 
will at once bi'eak off negotiations with the Committee. The Committee must 
take into consideration whether it should not first await an answer to its tele- 
gram to Molotov on the question of prisoners of war, before it gives offence to 
the Soviet Government by taking up the German request. The expert t)ii Red 
Cross questions in the Consulate 

[end of 50/33639] 

[50/33700] 

expresses as his personal opinion that the Soviet Government for its part will 
most certainly institute delaying tactics aiul refuse a final answer to the (jues- 
tions of the Committee on the suliject of the prisoners of \\ar. The Conunittee, 
which in I'ecent times has often made complaints aljout its dimiiiisliing influence, 
would have the opportunity to assert itself more strongly in the public eye by 
taking up the German suggestion. 

NOSTITZ 

[50/33700] 

Mr. Flood. Now I sliow you exhibit No. 30, a docinueut wliich lias 
been marked for identification, and I ask you to describe what it is and 
give your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 26th of Ajn-il 11)43, from the (iennan 
consulate in Geneva to the Foreign Ministry. The consulate thinks it 
unlikely that prominent Poles among the Geneva emigrants would 
participate on the terms proposed. A senior associate of the Entente 
Internationale anti-Communists, a Kussian-Swiss named Crottet, 
could probably be secured. 

+Legal Dpt. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1379 

Mr. Flood. Very well, exhibit No. 30 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit No. 30 is as follows:) 

ExmiuT :'.0 



feX»gVS»» 



fUtnt, 4»a ».A»ril 194? - 19,20 Uh* 
AakmtU Sl.ApyiJ. 1$0 - 4,15 Ofer 



Mr.9% ifo« ac.4»4% 



^^t^xao i3ctmsat*X<ilut» Aof f^lei^rMM TOa l$» ir.IO?'^' 



SoasalAt hilt •« f&r ua««h7ac}S9iiU.t«h, dasa 
&eaduift« bl8si0fl polaische Saigraat«ft, »le Frias 
St«xilsl«a8 KidsiwilX 94«r &7ftf ijntoB Laoakoronakl , 
Aagcbot aoa«ha«n ward«o, Tor aliea, mmm aie dort 
<}9.*aatida abg«ben K&3at«a* Aodera tcoossn ia Aist3b«~ 
r«j.oh niclit in Frage, BurekJiardt zor Zoit aof Aas- 

/i* ' ' ^W l8xidBr«iaea» 

■ »^ "* ' fyrZ^ Kooaulat anragt S5» 9r«a«»n, ob Aogebot nicbt 

hiaeiger Sotaiita Inter/iationada Antioon»aunlata ge- 
aaolit warden aollta; einer ihrar Hauptmitai'beiter, 
daat«ob-fr6aQdIioh«r Suaaland-Sohwaisar Crottat, 
hfttta achon aahrfacb Wunaoh naoJj B«rlinrelse zweoJts 
angarar FUMungaahaa mlt dortigar Antikomintarn ge- 
Soaaart. Pber Eatente and Croffc«t vorgleichs Draht- 

1 Ud, bariobt Sooaulata Hr.51**^ vom 4,afira. 

Koneiilat blttat dataar gagabaoenfalla aa Brnachti. 
gung Bit geaanotan Polao Ubar Ulttalanaan oder alt 



Hoatlte 



: a 



• mttA. 



'J 



i|(«al^ 



33S98 



A^i^C 



1380 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 30] 

[50/33698] 

[Telegram] 

[Secret code procedure ]i 

Geneva the 20 April 1943 19, 20 Hrs 
Arrival the 21 April 1943 4, 15 Hrs 

Nr 95 of 20.4.43. 

Ref Telegram of 19 Nr 107 t 

The Consulate considers it unlikely that well-known Polish emigrants here, 
such as Prince Stanislaus Radziwill or Count Anton Lanckoronski will accept 
the offer especially if they are obliged to give guarantees there. Others in the 
area under this office do not come into question. Burckhardt at the moment on 
journey abroad. 

The Consulate suggests consideration, whether the olfer should not be made 
to the International Anti-Communist Entente here ; One of their chief contribu- 
tors, the pro-German Russian-Swiss Crottet, has many times expressed the wish 
to go to Berlin to develop more intimate contact with the Anticomintern. On 
the Entente and Crottet compare Consulate's telegram No. Sltf of the 4th March. 
Consulate therefore requests authorisation to contact the above named Poles and 
Crottet, the former through a third party. 

NOSTITZ 

Note. Dr Megerle has received copy. 

[50/33698] 

Mr. Flood. I show you now exhibit No. 31, which has been marked 
for identification, and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 22d of April 1943, from the German 
consulate in Zurich to the legation in Bern. An invitation to Zanger 
is not possible; he is too old and frail and lives in retirement. His 
successor, Professor Sehwarz, is not an appropriate person because he 
has no international reputation and his attitude toward Germany is 
unknown. 



twithoiit file no. 
ttwith Inf Dpt. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1381 



Mv. Flood. Exhibit No. 31 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 31 is as follows:) 

1;\iiii;ti' Ml 



Hm- 






I lliJaxaft ia Bftxa, d»B 52 « April 15 45 if^^^^w oe acta. 

f «Bis4ff«iH,* 2Js|>plftr C&ifJ&w? 1f«3?fa&rea» g^^^^ 

I 5il!lot;«rB» B « s a 

i '~~~" % ^^ 

\lf^ Aaf , aohrif tlloii hiorliar gelangteaSelegraaa das Aiiswarti- 

gaa AmiiB Vim 2o. April, 

Maladung I>rofa3aor SL.n5r.er3 cicht a^glich, da 
di»3«r eeit 1341 eaeritiert ur.d s«ither ijifolge hohoa 
Alters tmd Sebrechliohkeit 3«de Sfientllche Batatigung 
ablehnt. EiBladong dss Isaohf olgers Prof, Scfaaarat aioht 
zm^ckm&aal^f da dieiser ?:eir.en intorriatioriaj £:-.ar.;ar^t<'a 
Saf hat uai seine Sinstellans a^J Deataeiilsad nlcht be&araat. 



?oist 



ir 






E^12li71 



1382 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 31] 
[Telegram 1 

Dispatch from Ziirich the 22 April 1943 12 Hrs 10 Min. 
Arrival in Bern the 22 April 1943 15 Hrs 00 Min. 

Deciphered : Keppler Code Procediire : Gr. V. 

Diplogerma Bern 

Nr of : 22.4. 

Most Urgent 

Ref Telegram of German Foreign Office of 20 April which arrived here l)y post. 

Invitation to Professor Zangher not possible, as he retired in 1941 and since 
then, because of old age and weakness has refused all public activities. Invita- 
tion to professor Schwarz, his successor, not suitable, as he has no internation- 
ally recognised reputation and his attitude to Germany is unknown. 

VOIGT 

[Marginal comment in blue pencil:] already settled by telegram No 856 of 
22.4. 

[5887/E424371] 

Mr. Flood. I now show you, Witness, a document marked for 
identification as "Exhibit No. 32," and I ask you to describe what it 
is and "five your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet, This is dated the 2!2d of April 1943, from the consulate 
in Geneva to the Foreign Ministry for the duke of Coburg. This 
transmits a telegram from the International Red Cross saying that 
they are willing to line up a group of neutral experts provided that, 
in accordance with the memorandum of September 12, 1939, and in- 
terested parties agree on the composition of the committee and its 
terms of reference. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1383 



Mr, Flood. Exhibit No. 32 is in evidence. 
(Exhibit 32 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 32 



fslogrejam. 



/, 



p " 

II (Off «n. )^ 

W? * 

p5 S ft B f f iSffia 2:^ ^prlX 19*" - 21 ^oo Uhr 

p*' ABkttBftj iJan 2'5. April 19«5 ~ 03, lo UHr 

Ifet-,^ loo yon g2^^4,y 

Usa int^riistlonal.'s Ko- jsiteo votn Sotec Kreuas 
bi-itst am Wftj.terl«it«eg dae nachstehesdea 
Tei«S5ns3!?s8 sr. Praelcic'Jter! iJautsaber. Roten 
greaaes . 

^ortXaats S.M.3:ei.Hohelt dem Haraog voa 
|: Koburg, Frfteidenten jSsk aeutecben Rotea 

|- ^ JCreazeE.SscJi Priifucg '3er vom deutsehea 

Roten Kreu2 la den Telegrammen vosn 16. uad. 
17, April «n (Jaa internatlonale Koaites 
voia Rotsr Ki-euz geriohtatcn Auffcrderunjg«n 
aachta Ich uater BeatHtigting oeicsr vor- 
Ifiufigon ^tworttsn vom 16, tind 2o, April 
1945 fUar doe bet disasr Galegenhsit orwia- 
eeri« Vertrau^n 3ank«fl, Inswischen ist auoh 
die polnleohe Regieraag lu iKjndon mit ert- 
eprachsndaai inliegan an uac herangstreten. 
Ba« later national* Komite* vom Bot«a Kreua 
let g«rRe terait, neutrel* IxperteK «u bs- 
»telle« Oder in Voreohlag zo. fcringi^nj fells 
I^^K «ntepre«h«nd d«n -io (8«inera KsmoraRdluia voib 

1^ ** a. 8^ ^j,_^ 8«ptamb«r 1939 nisdargslegten Qrund- 

filtsan eawtlloh* lnt«ree«l«rtctt P8rt«i«» 
is gX*ioJi«» Situs* a& d39 KoRitsft gelsngen 
tt»d na^hdeigit «itt linvdrs ttodBie d«:!>>««l^9R 
»it diss l&jmita* ta«r dlo ModalitMtva dfta 
ellfailigti: ISetwSetsc «r2i«lt wlrd. 3}a9 3r> 
wShat* IteaorsndoSJ^'wloiJta in a«r a«vua das 
Sot«a Kr«a««8 vom a«9*«»b«f 1939 v«rbf feat- 
lieht v&i. «n eXntlleb* SricgtUhrtnd* ^SAvt" 
mittclt «urd«, h«Bd«lt bc^anntliob von den 
MtlglioMc'tltsn dtr Sltwli^ang d«« Eoait«t« b«l 

33702 



; 






it.8 


• a* 


£JJ 


. »$jMei 


is-» 


« iMnfcKSMV 


«&fr-4« 


, A«tti.«i9> 




«. H«i, >>M««ftt 




•,M.f<^ 




, t«. f<t<H. H;^fj*«», 




f. .-,.^, }!«;K*. M>I4 


»•»• 


. $'**-'t 


!►<♦ 


^ !>, iirsimj »»»» «.>«« IM AM*m 


^:;- 


M«^. 4» 


l-Jf 


, «*»«>« ^m^* 


1^ » *1 





w 



93744— 52— pt. 



1384 



!WljfflWWpWWCP«^ j >yBWMt«yflliW^ 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
ExiiiniT 32 — Continued 

IX. 






8o-«J«ty95l«ru83S sur TJr.t»rewoh'««g durcn v.jb ua« b«- 
«;i»icaja«t« Keydrale Seohvaret^adiga auf dsm 18«ge Ub«x 
<Ji» Soaatsmscbt fcesw^, '■•3urch (Jii^ttta V«riian<3 luugea 
Oder .Saroii; agjaer* V«rB>ittlu^ig eifizahol«a wanscfce»» 



S3f auh«T, ?Tfeeid«Kt;, 



J?rf;ttt>5«r i," '::i f ■-> «3t . 



i t z. 



I3?C3 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1385 

[Translation of Exhibit 32] 

[50/33702] 

[Telegram] 

[Open] 

Geneva the 22 April 1943 21,00 Hrs 
Arrival the 23 April 1943 03,10 Hrs 

No 100 of 22.4. 

The International Committee of the Red Cro.ss reque.sts the relay of the follow- 
ing telegram to the President of the German Red Cross. 

Text : His Royal Highness the Duke of Coburg, President of the German Red 
Cross. After examination of the requests directed by the German Red Cross 
to the International Committee of the Red Cross in their telegrams of the 16 and 
17 April, I would like to express our thanks for the confidence shown in us in 
this matter, and confirm our provisional answers of the 16 and 20 April 1943. 
In the meantime the Polish Government in London has approached tis with cor- 
responding requests. The International Committee of the Red Cross is willingiy 
prepared to appoint or suggest neutral experts provided that, according to the 
condition laid down in its memorandum of 12 Sept 1939, all interested parties 
approach the Committee with the same wish, and following that, an agreement 
is reached by the Committee with the same people on the nature of the Mandate 
in all circumstances. The above mentioned memorandum which was published 
in the Review of the Red Cross in September 1939 and brought to the notice of 
all belligerents, dealt, as is well known, with the possibility of the Committee's 
co-operating in investigations. 

[end of 50/33702] 

[50/33703] 

We leave it to the German Red Cross whether they wish to secure the consent 
of the Soviet Government to an investigation by neutral Experts appointed by us, 
either through the Protecting Power, through direct negotiations, or through our 
own mediation. Provided that the conditions mentioned above are fulfilled, we 
will endeavour to find suitable neutral personalities. 

(Signed) Max Hcber President 

Telegraphic Report follows. 

NOSTITZ 

[50/33703] 

Mr. Flood. I now sliow you exhibit No. 33, witness, which has been 
marked for identification, and I ask you to describe what it is and give 
your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 23d of April, 1943, from the head of 
the legal department in the German foreign office, Albrecht, to the 
foreign minister's secretariat. This refers to the preceding telegram^ 
exhibit No. 32, and is a memorandum explaining the legal basis for the 
answer given by the International Red Cross. In the memorandum of 
September 12, 1939, the International Red Cross had communicated 
to the belligerents the principles which would govern it in any investi- 
gation of violations of international law. The Red Cross would never 
initiate such an inquiry unless it had a mandate to do so conferred 
upon it by both parties in the conflict. In these circumstances the 
head of the legal department suggests that the German Red Cross 
should ask the International Red Cross to secure Soviet agreement 
to a committee. If the Soviets refuse, as they presumably w411, ap- 
pearances will not be in their favor and this situation can be publicly 
exploited. 



1386 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 33 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit No. 33 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 33 



:4' 



# 



y>...rr. T-. - 'ifii'^jYi'i^'fif-iTr \T\\\\\ XimimI?! tu ^ --<■ "' 

Berlin, ^■^^n j ^ za i K 9^ 

< t 1 ., a ' 

J I r *,r i i,l ts m ^ -^ r . 1 i 

Ir 1faj4 ^ r >v ly ;3i, 1' . ^f ( r 1 i ^ "fs 
^r rj *i k '< r ^ rit. ^ ! un Vn 

yon !ferlet?ir^ci f't'^ < 3 t: ^ x . ^ t ^u ^ ot 

i/e erH, ^'^f" tine '' t r^\ t i> '^ j ^* (^''Cfl^en 

: rntt ^ o II It t ositee^ 

we T t "i It no^^ t ^ ' -• 

^1 i i*" i X e/iu'^tr^, - Off tcu r^iid -^e*; »< '^14 A 

'<(ifF tn+tr ucl ur fi i ^tj oeh i itetf> ^ +3v rl>. iii ^ j Jrc^~ 

,. «f nii 1 Dt. jO lit ic oKX^ce itin cj bf ♦ fa^' it ei 

Lj^C CPl, f-lfK * tl 1* tl '-r'*(. ^ Af ^ a *{lrr 

/"lijiif I t3iftrl(,t a"- f 1 3ju sa t ;, -! e if»' nxt. i^ 

ei fcfif ■'•niti J.V "■ ) "" T-U</t:p fsn 

;i I'nt "• r 'i J- " »r^' t,ir 

ir ^r ti > 1 I V 1 ir tri f- ^, i -vr f 

hoc <'cj bti '^ tr i ' it itii Cfjln n i i i n^ 

J-alk LI !v I ti * t -. . t' '•ti Tt ( t r t- 

ttilicSl'ti i i - lu ^ • i. n, ic ^ 1 

i I'tvienifit » ttnUun^ i * It^cltfi' oj . tc^m <cn. 

wie ;> ^ftanion i t <i ' i - - ivii i.'-n tnt-n- - 
/tii,'^n von 1/' nivU bdi^ttj i ;, r t nrtr ic v u ., ' i u^ 
• i'fltt sar Afiitr 1-orveitiir \ jtcof ^ i zar * i^e r^ng ;'es 
i-jjes 't^r /i.t ur *<.; it c' -"iicya der i trt, i .'Ide^ von T?. '' 

Kreuz * 1 n It ti rn 'I ^n 1 ! *- ■^ i u)t- icas-Jvsell- 

3C "^teo 



.33704 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 33 — Continued 



1387 



m 



_ 2 - 

Echaften ,_e,»ortler; unt^ i;ntrichtet {^e«iKse Zusci;Jsse nn d'ls 
int&rt!' tionale i^orsitee. 

, L^s Ir.ttrr. ti^n&le Komi tee zieht in aeiner jetzijjen I 
-.nt'ivort Bn das i^eutsahe ..ots rlreuz aus diecor -^^crlai^e die 
forsale i'oit.erjn^,, d?."^ es '3uoh i'o^ varliej^er.den ''&11 eiae Uater- 
sucl-uDi-, nur vt.r&nl ssen konne, ..enn .-juci- die iowjet~i'ie.;ieran^ : 
ihr ^iinrerst'^ndnis erkl'Ta. | 

-^s kaaat Belbstver;;t'^ndlicK nicht in -^'rflte. ''"'' '^on i 
dtutscner iuitt -n die ,:o.;jct-i;c„3 eran_^ sc^en der ..rtt;ilun_; ; 
eines der«rti^er. ^inver-.t-'ndaicses herangetrc-teii ..ird, jc-'ocb i 
fcc'tir.te er,->0;.;en -.varden, dardh d;>s i^eatsci;.? uote rCreaz dec j 

Inttr-rtionaiea i-omiiee nnhezule ,.,;i, von cic; jkis das von iha i 
fur erforderlicL ^ehr.ltena "in^cr.-t 'n'^nis Zxi. bf sa:>;v^fen. ■•ier-j 
djrcf konate eine Jrundlas^e d:-f':r .-Cecirffen werder, oei der ] 
za ervi 'xteadea rissisckcn ..blchnan,. das schlGcS te :}e«issen derj 
^awjets in f'er i'ffontliolktdt r-nk;u.ir..r;i^^ern. | 

^s ;.ird un kaeh.ii un ziv ..eitcrk itan^ dcs .ort- ] 
liats der '.'it teilurj ''c.. i-u- r,r i: o'j'len i'oisitees vn ■'-"'s i^eat-j 
scbe ..ote ;Creu2 .ind :n d-j .>tdc; ^L.tni;;" eria:;; ''::r <o'ks;':u''kl'^- | 
run. u nd . r o pa , :■ n ;"' •. ■ ,;c li 1 1 e n . ; 



lor^cht 



33?05 









1388 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE ' 

[Translation of Exhibit 33] 

[50/33704] 

zu R 10 094 
€opy for the State Secretary 
Berlin 

sent : 23 April 1943 
To ie Telegraphed I 
To Office of Foreign Minister 
Fuschl. 

No. 1149 

The following comments can be made on the telegram of the Consulate at 
Geneva, No. 100 of 22nd April 1943. 

In the Memo of 12th Sept, 1939, the International Committee of the Red Cross 
communicated to Belligerents the principles for its eventual activity in investiga- 
tion of infringements of international law. It has now remarked that such 
activity can only follow insofar as it neither limits nor renders dilRcult the 
positive humanitarian activity of the Committee, and in this connexion has re- 
ferred to the fact that during the War of 1914^18 the Committee made no 
investigations of alleged breaches of law. So far as the Committee is in the 
position to engage in any activity on the investigation of breaches of Inter- 
national Law, this can never take place on its own initiative but only if the 
Committee is granted a Mandate for such activity either in advance through an 
international agreement or through an ad hoc agreement of both conflicting 
parties. In this case the investigation process must present every guarantee of 
impartiality, as well as the opportunity for both parties to make good their 
causes for defence. 

The Soviet Union, it is true, did not participate in the Prisoner of War agree- 
ment of 1929, but in 1934 announced its adhesion to the Geneva Convention of 
27/7/29. (Agreement for improvement of lot of wounded and sick of armies In 
the field.) In 1934 the Soviet Red Cross became a member of the International 
League of Red Cross Fellowships 

[end of 50/33704] 
[50/33705] 

and paid the usual subsidies to the International Committee. 

With the facts as they are the International Committee draws in its pre.sent 
answer to the German Red Cross the formal conclusion that, in the present case 
also, it can only undertake an investigation, if the Soviet Government declares 
its consent. 

Obviously it is out of the question that an approach from the German side 
should be made to the Soviet Government on the granting of such consent ; it 
might be considered, however, whether the German Red Cross should suggest to 
the International Committee that it obtain on its own initiative the consent 
that it holds to be essential. In this way a foundation could be provided through 
the Russian refusal that could be expected in which the bad conscience of the 
Soviets could be pilloried in public. 

Permission is requested to forward the text of the communication of the 
International Red Cross to the German Red Cross and the Reich Ministry for 
information and propaganda. 

(Signed) Albrecht. 
[50/33705] 

Mr. Flood. I show yon now, witness, a docnment marked for identi- 
fication as "Exhibit No. 34" and I ask you to describe what it is and give 
your summary of it. 

Dr. Swi^ET. This is dated the 23d of April, 1943, from the consulate 
in Geneva to the Legation in Bern. This records a telephone call from 
(jeneva to Kordt in Bern, in which Geneva told Kordt that it would 
be difTiciilt to find an a]i]oro])riate expert in Geneva, and named as 
possilibillies Professor Eemund of Zurich, Professor Schoenburg of 
Basel, and Professor Dettling. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1389 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 34 is in evidence. 
(Exhibit No. 34 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 34 



kcA&til von Io»tite, Oenf, t*ilts Botsefeaftarat 
Keirdt g*stena abend ielspksnlaoJi Kit, d&ss es aucfe in Seaaf 
aekr seiiwierig sei» eiae paasenfie PeraSjiltdbikeit zu fteddn, 
Sr £iaaat« ia iiesea Susam&enhaag Professor Scfaen^sjrg, Basel, 
Dr. HesKM, Z'^rleh, dee Chef dee s<jJi»elaerl3<:&ea Rotea 
Ei««aze», tmd eis^ Profesaor Sattling, Sr asfcffis aber an, 
dasa es scteer oein -seri^, eicsa der geaajmter. S^rrea zur 
ABSia3me dee AHftragaa «« Terswlasaea* 

leja glsube, <Ja»9 «ir es h9i seitKsa negativeB 
BlKftt, dea 23.4.4? 



E42I373 



[Translation of Exhibit 34] 



Consul von Nostitz of Geneva, informed Legation Counsellor Kordt by telephone 
yesterday evening, that it is also very difficult to find a suitable person in Geneva. 
In this connection, he named Professor Schonberg of Basle, Dr. Remund of 
Ziirich, the Chief of the Swiss Red Cross, and a Professor Dettling. He thought 
however, that it will be difficult to induce one of the aforesaid gentlemen to 
accept the commission. 

I think we shall have to leave the position as it was with my last telegram 
in the negative. 

(not signed) 
Bern, the 23 4. ',3. 

[5827/E424373] 

Mr, Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification as 
"Exhibit No. 35" and I ask you to describe what it is and give your sum- 
mary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 24th of April 1943, from the minister 
in Bern to the foreign ministry. As already communicated by tele- 
phone, Professor Naville, of Geneva, a colonel in the Swiss Army, is 
read}^ to accept an invitation of the Reich health leader to visit Katyn. 



1390 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 35 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 35 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 35 






^^y - ^ii"^ 



C i ti as lB«-.a«oht» 

&u war tig Herllja, 

1^0, 870/24, 4. 




Xa Anschluss &n iJrahtberlcht Br. 879 v,2o.4. \ 

Wl« tereits telsfooisch m4tg«teilt, 1st Professor 

i^aiicols H 8 V i 1 1 « ,C5ecf , ~ 'ber«tt iSinladang 2eiobBg«satid~ 
hei tef ttaSirers zu? Bsaichtigung von Katyn &nzxan«>iaea. Professor ;; 
Savitl© let 0fe«r8t d«r Schwelz^r A-smes. &r reist Uoota^j 26.ii.pril ] 
ab Basei ait 3 91 uad trifft Dienstag 27. April Potsdaaer Bahaho:?] 
08.57 niir atn. { 

Bltto dringeca sofort Sehlafwagenabteil l.Eifisse ab Baael ; 
dort eioh*rst«ll«a upd Kumsier voc Schl^f^agsn aosi Abtell 8pSt««> 
ot«a8 Sonatag voraittag bierher durcligsbfta. \ 

Soeehcr* 



• / ^ 

aachjgebolt. 



^^^ 



: r fj i? ' ^ t 



B24368 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1391 

[Translation of Exhibit 35] 

[Telegram], 

[Secret script] 

Most Urgent Night Dispatch. 
Auswartig Berlin. 

No. 870/24.4. 

IVIy Telgram Report Nr. 879 of 20.4. 

As already reported by telephone, Professor Frangois Naville of Geneva is 
prepared to accept the invitation of the Reich Leader of Health to inspect Katyn. 
Professor Naville is a colonel of the Swiss army. He will leave Basle on the 
26th April by (train) D.91. and will arrive at Potsdam Station on Tuesday 27th 
April at 08.57. 

Please book immediately first class sleeper from Basle and send number of 
sleeper and compartment by Sunday morning at the latest. 

KOECHER. 

The signature of the iMnister will be supplied. 

19.35 NR 234 ERH AUSW Bin FG+ 
[5827/E424368] 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification 
as "Exhibit No. 36" and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 27th of April 1943, and it is a memo- 
randum by an official of the press department, Starke. This gives the 
names of the experts in forensic medicine from 14 European countries 
who have accepted the invitation of the Eeich health leader and are 
ready to go to Katyn. Professor Orsos is described as the best known 
and as having taken over the leadership of the group, but he has made 
it known that he is a pronounced enemy of publicity. Professor Piga 
Avas the personal physician of the last King of Spain. His experiences 
in connection with opening Bolshevist terror graves during the civil 
war will be especially valuable to the committee. Naville, and espe- 
cially Markoff, make a more reserved impression. 



3^392 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr, Flood. Exhibit No. 36 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 36 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 36 











Mt. ? T 





B«rXia, d«» 27. April 1945 



6S Starke 



"* 



1/ 



Aof BiHl8<Sur,g ties %lch«ges-uJDdh8lt8f«hr«r8 sind durob 
yers.ittlti»5 4ts A').?w&rtlg$n Aate 14 «Kgese3^es« G«riehts~M«dl- 
sstnsr atie sbefsso^islen eiiropS^lgi^hsn Ktcdejns in Berlin «iRg«- 
iroJ'ien, di« aic-fe njorgftsi aa dae Gra^erfel^ vca Eat^n tel Sbo- 

r.«e'atigs?E besUgiicb der I.«iohesfurid« a«r siolBisc^«G Off i8i«re 
Razuateliisno 'for allea sollsn sie featstellsja^ass 3ie Lelohdo 
b«ir«its e«lt «®m 3?ra2ijahr t940 tu Katyo b«?:rafee» siKd. An dl*- 

Xtisli«a» ?ref. falai»rl 

Sj»9*l«a» l?rof, Plga 

3afe»eiSJ frof. Srv11X« {S«nf) 

Balgari«ri$ Prof, »&S'koff 

Bsajstolaej ?r«f . :>r. Blrkl* , * 7* »!->' , 

f4ji3tXA»5s Prttt. S«xla 
Xrefeti«3i» Prsf. llllo«la«ioe 
Bsl^iea Prof, gj»i«er8 (S«nt) . ■ 

Roll*ad Prof. ButUt 



Sle«<tit«lt Prof. SubiS 

lf»J^ ^- fr-6t«ktorat Prof. Hayak ' 

' ^^ SSKSiMO'ks: "Qs, 5fra»6»o, g?et»r Asalateat dea 

i Ko9«ssfeag«B»r Profaaeore 

: « • ' ' '. Ba»:i, 4«8 Yore it Bond en d«r 

'. • latarnetienalan Q«richt»~ 

fest««>£4j5«. der «i» Q«»and. 
/> , &9itttrtiak«ioht*a «ioVi uicte 

y " , Bjrochas hat, d«B Votiia ae; 

/ ,- '. . e«a A««iet«Etsa zu ealasa 

Saban d«« vorarweh»t«a l*rof«a»dr Saad <lMte«a»rk} aiad dlv !»«> 
fc«fflat«#teft Autorit&tetf, dia (Jlrakt in 3*? Belafation ^artrataa 
»iivx, Frof, Oraoe C^agara), der dia ?a5iTua« d«r Oruppe »a »*>«js- 
E#3?K0a s^feaiat, «iab »b9r h«ut<» iai^ar aXa auagatprochtnar 
ffaisd d*? I^3»« b*v;«aat hat aad d«y 72-38&ri«9 «pa»iaoh« Prfif » 
?i««, Xaibayst d«» X^tstaa JCaniifS aii4 lorraapondlaraadaB 
, ' , ' Sitelied 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1393 

Exhibit 36 — Continued 



- 2 - 



Mitglied 4@s iiidataerlkaKischen Xrstevereltxes ein 8«ter tessp*- 
rameatvoller altsr Ustt, singeFshworsRsr Antl-Bolsebewlet, i«v 
^Rk a-^lasr Srfaferiaj)geri bsl der Offa^ng Toa t!0laehe«l8tiach«n 

trstor dei- Schssi?, und vor allsK 4sr ?srtr«ter- l;al^;*ri«ES j8«iQljea 

Ir 4r«i Sagaa thr« Pntsreuchangen as Oi-t un^S Stslle sit eisas 

a»«i big «Sr«i *oefc«a spSte? sollea sle sach nooh el»ge!i9iidtr»a 
Ustsrsaehirngsa von Lelobenteilen la ifere? Beiast eia weit«re« 
'itar&rigrelcaares s^filzlnisches S«tacbtsa erstatUftn. SJit ifcrer 
aU-skSrehr ssach Berlin Igt a© SoriH&ben^ atseuS oder »s Sormta^ 
forsjittag zu r^e^n. Ass Sorintae cschmlttsg usd rk Sojsmtag vor- 
aittag »oiisn els sit ihrea Berliner Mia«ione» ia V»rblsd;!j?.g i 

tret«>n. FUr «es Moata^ acexsa sin<5 ?ortr%8 der Profesgorsn b«i 
<iea 9r-tap,reob-ei5-3«n z^lachesat&atltch^s VerbSn-Se^i »md natioisalfta 
ArbeiterdslegatiORen ihrsr LMaSer vorgCBftbea.- 

Ai« Begleiter bet d«;s Sxk«j'8ioa»B asoh K«ty» siud tor 
d8at»c??er Belt« ^seteli-ts 

Se?r MttK«r, S-oIt Fel far i&s Asssw&rtige A»t 
H«rr By, St«la usi5 Herr Siet« &!» ?9rtr«tsr a%8 

S«3rr 2r* ^fer fllr d»« Propsfsciajairleterlxus 
Wilsrajsa der f^rt 5}««b8lchtig«a 8«rr Cittakai* h»5 Herr 
Sy. Mbr feataaetell«K, ia weiohe^ Uttfasg« ub<5 is *elch«r w«l«» 
iia Pr0f«s9f)T«o ta Ihrej? 8e8awtii.«it saey g»scsSert fUr did ?ro« 
|i&£«234& In Itmsdf «nk mxA Frese* eiazuestsez: eiad. 



8 5 S 2 9 J 



1394 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

ITranslation of Exhibit 30] 
[1327/352028] 

Berlin 27 April 1943 
Office. P V 
Counsellor Dr Starke 

On the invitation of the Reich Leader of Health and through the good offices 
of the German Foreign Office, fourteen well known forensic pathologists from the 
corresponding number of European countries have arrived in Berlin; tomorrow 
they will travel to the Katyn graves near Smolensk, where they will work in 
co-operation with the German Professor Dr Butz of Breslau, in order to make 
on-the-spot scientific enquiries into the exhumation of the Polish officers. Pri- 
marily they are to determine whether the corpses have been buried in Katyn 
since Spring 1940. The following forensic pathologists are taking part in these 
enquiries. 

Italy : Professor Palmieri 
France : Professor Costedoit 
Spain : Professor Piga 
Switzerland: Professor Naville (Geneva) 
Bulgaria : Professor MarkofC 

Rumania: Professor Dr Birkle (of German origin but completely Rouma- 
nian in personality) 
Hungary : Professor Orsos 
Finland : Professor Saxen 
Croatia : Professor Miloslawicz 
Belgium: Professor Speleers (Ghent) 
Holland : Professor Burlet 
Slovakia : Professor Subic 
The Protectorate : Professor Hayek 

Denmark : Dr Tramsen, First Assistant to Professor Sand of Copenhagen, 
the chairman of the International League of forensic pathologists, who 
on grounds of health is unable to go to Smolensk in person but promises 
to make his assistant's vote his own. 
Besides the above mentioned Professor Sand of Denmark the most well-known 
authorities represented on the Delegation are Professor Orsos of Hungary 
who seems to be taking on the leadership of the group, but who has un- 
fortunately made himself known today as an enemy of the press, and the 72-year 
old Spanish Professor Piga, physician in ordinary to the last king and corre- 
sponding member 

[end of 1327/352028] 
[1327/352020] 

of the South American Medical Union, a very temperamental old man, a sworn 
anti-bolshevist, who, thanks to his experiences at the opening of the Bolshevist 
terror graves at the time of the Spanish Civil War, may be particularly valuable 
for the work of tlie delegation. The Swiss and particularly the Bulgarian rep- 
resentatives make an more reserved impression. 

The European forensic pathologist mentioned above hope to finish their on-the- 
spot investigations in three days, with a first collective report. Approximately 
two or three weeks later after a more thorough examination of parts of the 
corpses in their home countries they will make a further extensive medical 
Expert Report. Their retixrn to Berlin must be reckoned with on Saturday 
evening or Sunday morning. On Sunday morning and afternoon they want to 
get into touch with their Berlin missions. On Monday evening, lectures by the 
professors are anticipated before the corresi>onding international societies and 
national Labour Delegations of their countries. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1395 

[Translation of Exiiibit 3G — Continued] 

To accompany the journey to Katyn, the following have been appointed by 
•Germany : 

Mr Dittmer, of the Cult Pol Dpt of German Foreign Office 
Dr Stein and Mr. Zietz as representatives of the Reich Leader of Health 
Dr Bahr representing the Ministry of Propaganda. 
In the course of the journey, Mr DIttmer and Dr Biihr intend to ascertain to 
what extent and in which way, the professors can be engaged collectively or 
individually for propaganda on the radio and in the press. 
Herewith submitted to 

Minister Dr Schmidt. 
Copies to 

Minister Braun von Stumni 

Minister von Tippelskireh Dpt Pol V 

(Initialed) ST(arke) 27/4 
[1327/352029] 

Mr. Flood. I show yoii now, witness, a document marked for 
identification as exhibit No. 37 and I ask you to describe what it is 
and give your summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated April 30, 19J:3, and it is a photostatic 
copy of the protocol signed by the international committee of ex- 
perts. I made no summary of this document because the committee, 
I believe, had it in full translation. 



1396 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 37 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 37 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 37 



«»Z1i*a8ol«E83£, &eo JO.Arrll- 1945 



I'roto:feoli 

»ufs«ti<aia»a «ml&2ltoii dear tTat«rftucitari;; von r*»»encTaijera 
i olnisalier cf f l«l«3re vn "mile von K»tya b«l CnaXscskf 4i« ^ 
aujfoh ela« ro:Kal»»ioa f\Sar9nd»r WTtt*t%i»x dex 56rlehtl4«h«» ; 
M«di2i» uBd rrlolr-rBs^tk europf>t««}xer i:ofihBciiul«e uRd a»««3W>*: 
r.j!*^b.sfter K*d.t53xi»oher ''oohscir.'lleJir^r durchfefikrt ward«» 1 

Jr; 6isx 2<;tt T<Mi £3» bis 30.4,1945 Unt elao !!ORal*»i<ja ft3ir«a« 
sux-&i«5iX»cJ3.e» i:ocfeseisui«K una aaderar ai-r^saftex sedislclasher :; 

Chun %jter»«eh«iig it»xterxoge?u 

Mc rossiaisston 'Efss-sand «c5s fbl^ecdea H»rreaj 

2, ?«lg»ri»as !>rt 1 & r & c if » or^i, Deg«a4 fUz c»rl«)it» 

lieb<» maizia tiad Kri»iR«li8tll£, as A»x I&l- I 

fir ferlchtiioh* :<:edleln is Eoj-en!Mkg«B, j 

f$A^l(^tstiiieri ARat<«d» ssa A«r uaiveraitlit 

5# I««li«©i ^*i».lTii«Ttt esrd, rrofessor <ter e»- | 

»i«>vtlleJi«« ^Hsdlsia «ml Krlalsailstlfc an d»» i 

i 
6» rjr<m«i*nj 2y,"11.o»lcvieii, oyd. :rof»*»or l 
4«r f#ri«htii«heri 'edlRln uad SrtainRlistUc 

■i 



InM /^^ 



E;i2i:>ii 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1397 

Exhibit 37 — Continued 



« 2 « 

etitttt fUr «'evic'.r.lieh« -vdizta w,4 rsljEiwat- 
iioh«n "^disln tua dear **Plvcr»iti.t 'J^ni', 

12, Ots*3mt 1^. C y a 6 » , ord. vr«f»a0«y d«r gftxloiit- 

lloh»r. «sdl2tR -and trlBlaBill«tlfc sa «*«»• ISb1» 
v*r»itat BaoapeBt. ' 

Bel dffo .-.y^Xten uad Beratuagsn <Jer Deiogation tt»rsn f^tiott 
a&weAsndt 

1, eer vs«s OfecrStcsaawiac d«r !>«ut«oli«o r.-shnsacht aat ier I.«i- 

d«r gsrlehiXtsJiea •-.eJtslr. urd '^iain^ilatlk sr, <l-r miv^r- 

2, Mfcd»<!te-lJi«p»*t««r By, Costadoat , der vea -Jhef 
der friUi«3»le«Jaen RPiiieiw* ieauftrsst wordan ear, den 

^ AxT&eiteo der jToaaisaion belEuwoius»n, 

Dl« var ':urz«8 »ur KonntRi*. *ex deut&ch^rj ^eiiUrden cekOHs?!:* 
£ntd«c5aiag von lj*»5cn5r£b«ra polciscUar cf'isiere to alue von 
rat/a *>el rju>I.8n«k hftt dcr. aeich8pe3aKdheit3f">irer Dr. jonti 
d»«tt v«xanl«fit» die e'ben gant.BntcK ysobgelchrtcn aus verachio- 
d*a«n euyoyui»4&«2 litoOaKro sar Baatehti^TJSiC <!«» --und«t«lle vea 
Katyn et»««lad«o,un Jjar rUSurvu^j uieaea einsl^artlg«K Fnlls* b«4- 

Z*-if«a, dl« a.». *p«*t:*tl^t«n, liiiS tr. den ''onatTO wr^w und /Lprtt 
1C4C f'ast tayllei- ;•?''. 9ro SlffSf^tiahntrancrort* alt po3jal8eh«a 



i:42l542 



1398 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 37 — Continued 

I 

tiert, tpltsr kI* «l«<2*r g:«»4dbti«i «ar4«i{ sl» retin fcmer K«nBt» 
als voB dei^ liltlMnscB sofuadtn «sd 7«»t»t9Xltrr:t«A osA b**lch- 
ti£t« dl« «»fg«fi»ui»i]«n s»««iMit{:te}»« Blem&ob aisd bl» soa 30* 
4*1947 982 I«leh«» &»«g«^r«t>ea wo^rtes* Oaves wxvtee etm 70 ^ 
eo/ort Idcntlflxiert* i^lurtAdl die rspivTe der Q!»rli;«& ^^^i^^ '°««^ 
son;J%Itle«}^ yorfco.hftTMtlttnc onu' Ztestlflzienme veanwrtet verdea 
kbzoum, Dl« vor dea %ittt)r«f fen a*x XoRtttlasion muig«ex«t>«iMm ];«1> ; 
Cher. »lnd •MatltoiJi 1>«»i«htl«t» ir. e»B8«»«y 2«hl «»eb ob&jtlort 
«or4«s* on^i twar dereb ir«f«»«or Buhts isxtft 9«ls« ^'lte.rWit«r* Fii 

»eb£tsune«ii«l»« S$(» cfXiet»x«leiohen entMlt. 

Von a«a KUeUii^nx jter iConasltsion «a24«ti {«x«{;allch 9 lelelMB 
|: Id ot>daei*rt %sd zahly«l«j^ ^osaAjr* an«s««Hhlt« f%XiM cixwr I«i- 

ob«B»selt&a Hat«»<Hraa^ 

gcriQjitlioii-^ t9|>aigiBi««lM> .i?ye«bpi»»» a>g aay>hg«faitri«tt 3«»ieii'» 

Alt 7od«»tunKft0b4 d«v «^tXi«h til4hvv «a9e«eT«%«s«a ystdbma mmrtbn 

Avimoimal^tt £o|>f»e)me festgextellt* £3 haedeXt sixth ^tchmtz tm 
Q9tittis«6h&»Mt wa& t*»x tilwrwitsrmad «ai «iat«e]ti« e»alalESQ2m»««y 
145 aelteaea F8il«f» ua *«pp«lte 0«alolK»efaiie«», ia »4»«r eia»lu«i 
FalX ttts ei&ea &r»lfAoK«u O«ni<!k»obsta« r)ez> SisaehtiiS elt«t4ttro^ 

\ ^ nab« «« iJUit«iclii«m>rtcXo«]a hls^&a, i^brend Haar AxMSohuft In ter 

> B«&*X ia d«T 694P»ai a»r Stim* Bftax;i^x«ase» is ^nat ftel««tt«& f%X> 

Xca XUktnx XiJ^* S» 2sar>deXt nioh 4toxcint«s; vbr il9tol«B«o)sSt«« 

vea •ta9» K)ftXl%«r ven usaHx' ft aa« 

AS* imt 3{ix«xigtiajS d»« S^bMsXc oxbH d«K 9*£BCKi ves FaX««r««l»«awfc 

£:X«i&iuKr«ig«Bt ;,ol(»ll«i4Knu)|; Aer £Sl»s«M»M,i6t e^ <ieb»S mit 
««uQ|«««itt62r {^UAJku^ odsr asm «uuBi«t«X1wrs««r 3?itlM> nt «o33li*d«a» 
suMiX «»eit dl» ni«l.tun^ &»» SfiJteUHeaaals ait mstijfiax £«rlt«4m 
A^«tfloi»sc»g«tv dUtx«iwejS £rX«i8]ia7tie l«t» Me Mf;»XX«a49 oX«t«h* 

«• 4 * 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1399 

Exhibit 37 — Continued 

- ♦ • 

is «ia«n s&t^t t;««citrtiritt»r. X'sr^leh df-i- , ■ ■ .ari«!-i:7t6e, wd . j.. 

gleiohartlee F««««laa«e» dwr HiuyX» tirui isi •iDl|c«i; .••::iler &uc2i 

w«Tfd»o# Oie AiiafSttJfwaf; der r«»fc«ljui<:- «r.t.^prlcht <Jer ar. L«lcia*ft 
jn»»slaeljer .ttviiiotsa f»%t£Wtellt.«a yaaael-art'en, Cic sbcnXoll* 
is TciXsJe von i:atytt au»|;«g«iiJ«« urui »<JUor. vi«l ffOher '^:;rafc«E 
vmrd«a, Ss iwyiie feraer f •ftts^otellt » t!-.'^' ^tch >Il«* 's-^nlcSracb'as* 
'•» Ts»l d«xs l,«ica«a Ten ZivUruQsfl^ JJiaaila:. zieliJIcher ab«.eeeler. 

A»« di«r *e»t8teXlaag «la»» '?tt«r5cixli^r8 Im roift etnes di««h 
<3^<sioS»oim3 co******^ pol«>»ciN»B cfflslere, 4er :r^r ai« !iuw«r« 
Kaoehesta;*! *li^«drtio3tt )iatt«« 1st atu a«.-a.lc:;.:^r, -.•,^" lurch 
dle»e« ^««clio6 «jfst sis ou<l«3f8r offlaler jetctrt soi-fien Ist, 
uji3 a&e e» rnwjfe Aastritt eua 4«ji.aon * 3yper i\ flie I«lche einea : 

Bit«* ?«*»*«)» iSSt *«<»«t«a# a«£ ?;rackie»iur.fsa cffenba? ou«fe li 
dftn arabaa stAttraJcutam, ua 9la«zi trcosopcrt auf cixubstrtte su 

Die ifiMMMKQgrSber t>«findea sioh In '^>Xdliahtuae«n. ule slnu voll- 
}«)«aRHm g*8»l»«rt oJid ait juag«a Klefetnbt-usicher. fcej-flaiistt, ..oh. 
dtaa «l5«»e» *stigens9h«i« <5er :.0£Bal«»toaci2il;;Xle<Jer unci Ocr '^s« .: 
SMtj!^ 4MC «!♦ »«sfev«ratfc.»dtraii eu^jeso' s«B«xi For«taai»tcr» voa 
2 « » t * lM3»d«l.i «» »leh via weidgateae 5-iiU'yl««» t:.-. loiiatt*:;^ 
ISKtS^s «*te«a« (MfJiiocM •iit»ick»it« '^efempflaraao, <Ji' vcr 3 

««• Jf»io*» taxUi >«»tcht, voyi7*trl«fe»B» Cle rpi«)»n son T«Mi bl* 

tA» X4ri»lum li«i$9« f«et '•'^»ao3»;s>id£^ich ixi B»a9blftsa 'lit^.t 

ia Aw liitt« wAr it»X*ttiMf'i€» ^^i' ^i»« »*"<* ^♦•* i«aer g«* 

•♦»»«ia# «?:• fe«wi*U ♦i«!i df/<m»l«litll«fe w «i«t »3f»te«: tiaoh* 

mU^mtt .■4W««i«hma'4f«o, ;;ti«!r»i/ot«w», ?8«o3scet«a^«>3. u«w# iic_ 
«iu4^f«ti|«« fe«»*»t*b«n j>ei8l»eij*r o«lf«>*(a»tt» ra Ji«r.d{>it »t«ii 



93744— 52— pt. 5- 



;J^400 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 37 — Continued 



.-.•Jtser. y- lei ^^^m veci-g'Ti LelcbOJ. ls«*B«teXt «• tiol: debt wa 

; ieiluc€ oct«.,5*»«hoa 4«i rsuicn icr «la««iB«r. r««p»r. Dd* ytt«r- 
Icl'flOiaic l»t; orir.aae«»^*S a^iteStrs^vft, r!o»«ctrUjj:«r, I'Orttl orfl- 
xjUj-^aailStg sr^obye*^*, !toycai8 erat^t ft:te&» 4' J die >?Jlai««i la 
a*a vca liusca Vi* smc tpde ^ctr^sorrft :?Bifor«Mi verscJaanrt vnar- 

B'iJ. -iftJi t.*?lobca t«fi.n(!ea clcl-. I3i2s» Tftaea aa4 2JU:^«» o»>»*i»l 

ciawshft ::; ji?50i©t«n iRsrsUss ir. ^-r^Sarea Uecgec voxg«fucd«a, in r.iflfcti 
»«ltftj.':ji pMlier. re«^ x<!ch-;.«i*6l4» r*';«i»r f^nden aid', polal«<di« J 
:;l|?nr«tt»R- ima atrelebholaatfSitahteia 'nal den ?ot*»» la tiaif^ ] 
x^SU' . sssic!i fot»laU>««» uj=a :;ij!j«M'«tt«a«jl1;3»a att dar Qr«trl»«m« :| 
, £odbl»5r"{r4D$5i <te8 le««t*a 9o«30tis<jfe«a oefttc£»a«»34S«er» ftwr :| 
:i:^«%&t4fti T:x^Ge>t^%m) » lAa ^± 4«» i«2.«b«» vmy^fteaidisneR Dokgai»at*:i 

S««t»»* 1§5S ^i« Mx9 i®5sS Aj^eil tS40# BGC ln%*U Ws&*r l'*«t««- | 

Saa**«««jS«P* *»i« 5ttr<a* djU iip»»»aag W^tix^tsR korr««y«r.(5t»jf«n. 

4|/«» jrj» ?««» aej^ 4w j|l««^MBr*ttaj .taawa itScatea* ii^nm* •!> ^ 

»u» ^^««r« S>>m3* w>* s«3Mi4»lo mr-taa ouf «Ja» v^-r^df'^wc «»• ; 

ni-i/u 'ti*****! flw filn» 3tilktttf/-jrtt«t jM»fc«a:»Jlai»ttc« Xr^tw nation 
» $ « 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 37 — Continued 



1401 



# 



• 6 - \ 

f>rti«t« Solahe ti-»9b»ixiar.£'-T. ■. luC -ei i,cicn..>a» dl-a •.---ij^? 
«i!U 3 J*hr» la .Jr*be gtloib.. J^b«a, nloht zj t.oobttcl/.or^» tin 

Po»B Ira Sobatei a»r l€tol2 ; sr,526, dla v. -J.-r cicrfl-.c.- cinei 

Ira ?told»« von ratitJ %unl!«j; voa dur ; ajsais lor. i-'aeat j^^r-i^r 
vos pfllalselion <.?^t»l6rcE untarauclit, vo- "df:f.-?n blshcr 7 ^e- 
tffJsst Blni, AU8 ai««ioa f,-ur::'-.n biahcr 93" I.. ieli':?c iebor^ton, 
ttatdjraaoli't, zu's T<yil obdaciert unci •x'l 70 ^ ia«?rtlfl7l®rt, 
n46 iaieS»n wiaaec al« Toa9»ur8i.ch« ;',j«£;c .lle.'lijh r.enlolc- 
sefeUsa* afflff* y>u« dlaa Z9ati»tv\xia.'c:ccn, Sen i»i aer. jcicher a'Jif- 
S*?aod«o«r. Sriefsaiaftec, T.-ijj*btiokam, i,cl.w^(jE us- , rrrlbt 
9W&, daC dia greoMeC xr.gBi. Ir, ^;ea SoKatCB r.rr? n:.3 ..■.,.. 11 
tS40 stilt t^afttBden i**«n, lilersiit 8t«hen Ix vSlltfer ■•l>arr,ii!~ 
Btlseasij; d|,«'4a P»ot«*oll seasiiil.isrte^ rpfoude an den •.fa»een- 
«ea aefe »to»lr.8n l,«ich«n d«r ralalaohen CflMsier*. 




r;^leer») (or, aarkor) 






{ lir «'ilil©8&vioh ) 






1402 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 37] 

Protocol of the International Medical Commission 

Smolensk, 30 April 19J,S 

PROTOCOL, 

drawn up on the occasion of the examination of the mass graves of Polish? 
officers in the Katyn wood near Smolensk, which was carried out by a com- 
mission composed of leading exponents of Medical Jurisprudence and Crimi- 
nology at European universities and of other renowned medical professors. 

In the period from 28 to 30 April 1943, a commission composed of leading 
exponents of Medical Jurisprudence and Criminology from European universities 
and of other renowned medical professors subjected the mass graves of Polish 
officers in the Katyn wood near Smolensk to a thorough scientific examination. 

The Commission consisted of the following men : 

1. Belgium : Dr. Speleers, Professor in Ordinary of Ophthalmology at the 

University of Ghent 

2. Bulgaria : Dr. Markov, lecturer in Medical Jurisprudence and Crimi- 

nology at the University of Sofia 

3. Denmark : Dr. Tramsen, Prosecutor at the Institute of Medical Juris- 

prudence in Copenhagen 

4. Finland : Dr. Saxen, Professor in Ordinary of Pathological Anatomy^ 

at the University of Helsinki 

5. Italy : Dr. Palmieri, Professor in Ordinary of Medical Jurisprudence 

and Criminology at the University of Naples 

6. Croatia : Dr. Miloslavich, Professor in Ordinary of Medical Jurispru- 

dence and Criminology at the University of Agram 

7. Netherlands : Dr. de Burlet, Professor in Ordinary of Anatomy at the 

University of Groningen. 

8. Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia : Dr. Hajek, Professor in Ordi- 

nary of Medical Jurisprudence and Criminology at Prague 

9. Roumania : Dr. Birkle, Medico-legal Adviser to the Roumanian Min- 

istry of Justice and First Assistant at the Institute of Medical Juris- 
prudence and Criminology in Bucharest 

10. Switzerland : Dr. Naville, Professor in Ordinary of Medical Juris- 

prudence at the University of Geneva 

11. Slovakia : Dr. Subik, Professor in Ordinary of Pathological Anatomy 

at the University of Bratislava, Head of the Public Health Depart- 
ment of Slovakia 

12. Hungary : Dr. Orsos, Professor in Ordinary of Medical Jurisprudence 

and Criminology at the University of Budapest. 

During the work and consultations of the Delegation there were further 
present the following: 

1. Dr. Buhtz, Professor in Ordinary of Medical Jurisprudence and Crimi- 
nology at the University of Breslau, delegated by the Supreme Command of 
the German Army to direct the exhumations at Katyn, 

2. Dr. Costedoat, Medical Inspector, delegated by the Head of the French 
Government to attend the work of the Commission. 

The discovery of mass graves of Polish officers in the Katyn wood near 
Smolensk, recently come to the notice of the German authorities, has caused 
Dr. Conti, Reich Health Leader, to invite the above-named experts from different 
European countries to inspect the place of discovery in Katyn, in order to assist 
in the clarification of this unique case. 

The Commission personally examined some Russian witnesses, inhabitants of 
the Katyn district, who stated i. e.^ that in the months of March and April 1940 
large rail transports of Polish officers were detrained almost daily at the station 
at Gnie.sdowu near Katyn, transported to the Katyn wood in prisoners' trucks, " 
and were later never seen again ; the rominission further took note of the find- 
ings and discoveries made so far and ins])ected the evidence which had been 
found. According to these, by .'{0 April 194:5 9S2 corpses were disinterred. Of 
these, about 70 per cent were inimediately identified, while the papers of the 
others can be used for identification purposes only after careful preliminary 
treatment. The corpses disinterred before the arrival of the Commission were 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1403 

[Translation of Exhibit 37 — Continued] 

-all inspected and to a great extent also dissected by Professor Buhtz and his 
collaborators. Up to the present, seven mass graves have been opened, the big- 
gest of which contains as far as can be judged 2500 officers' corpses. 

Nine corpses were dissected by the members of the Commission personally, 

.and numerous specially selected cases were subjected to an autopsy. 

MEDICO-LEGAL RESULTS OF THE INSPECTIONS AND EXAMINATIONS CARRIED OUT 

In all the corpses so far disinterred, the cause of death has been without ex- 
■ ception established as due to shots in the head. It is a question throughout of 
shots in the nai>e of the neck and indeed predominantly of single sliots in the 
nape of the neck, in a few cases of two shots in the nape of the neck, and in one 
single case of a three shots in the nape of the neck. The entry-hole of the bullet 
is without exception situated low at the nape of the neck and goes into the bone- 
structure of the occipital bone near the foramen magnum, while the place of 
exit of the bullet lies, as a rule, in the region of the frontal hair-line and only in 
very rare cases, lower down. "Without exception the shots are from pistols of a 
calibre of less than eight millimeters. 

From the blasting of the skull and the findings of powdermarks at the occipital 
■bone near the place of entry of the bullet and also from the similarity in the 
position of the entry shot, it can be concluded that the shot was fired at point- 
blank or at very close range especially as the direction of the bullet track is, with 
very few deviations always the same. The remarkalile similarity of the injuries 
and the position of the entry-shot within a very restricted area in the occipital 
region, indicate a practised hand. In numerous corpses the tying of the bands 
in identical fashion and in a few cases also four-edged bayonet-wounds in 
clothing and skin could be established. The method of tying corresponds with 
that discovered on the coi'pses of Russian civilians who were also disinterred in 
the Katyn wood and had been buried much earlier. * * * 

* * * * * * * 

There are different stages and types of decomposition, conditioned by the 
arrangement of the corpses inside the pit and with relation to each other. There 
is mumiflcation at the surface and the edges of the mass of corpses and, in the 
middle of this mass, liquid decomposition. The coagulation and congealing 
together of neighbouring corpses by congealed liquid from the corpses, par- 
ticularly the malformations corresponding to and conditioned by reciprocal 
pressure, indicate beyond doubt contemporaneous burial. 



SUMMARIZED CONCLUSIONS 

In the Katyn wood, mass graves of Polish officers were examined by the 
Commission, seven of which have so far been opened. From these, 982 corpses 
have so far been recovered, examined, partly dissected, and 70 percent identified. 
The corpses show exclusively that death was due to shots in the nape of the 
neck. From the statements of witnesses, letters, diaries, newspapers etc. 
found on the corpses, it is concluded that the shootings took place in the months 
of March and April 1940. The findings at the mass graves and in individual 
corpses of the Polish officers, as described in the Protocol, are in complete ac- 
-<?ordance with this. 

(sgd.) Dr. Spelb:ers Dr. Hajek 

Dr. Saxen Dr. Subik 

Dr. de Burlet Dr. Tram sen 

Dr. Naville Dr. Miloslavich 

Dr. Markov Dr. Birkle 

Dr. Palmieri Dr. Orsos 

Mr. Flood, I show you a document marked for identification as ex- 
hibit No. 38 and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated April 30, 1943, from an oflficial on the 
personal staff of the foreign minister, Megerle, to German missions in 
Stockholm, Ankara, and Bern. In order to make difficulties between 
the British and Russians, it is directed that word be sent around that 
the British inspired the Polish appeal to the Red Cross. 



1404 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit 38 is in evidence. 
(Exhibit No. 38 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 38 



(G- ScHreiber) 



Sonde rBu^, 
AnkuBfts 



d«n 1. Mai 1945- 15.55 ViiX 
• 1. » • - 14.20 " 



^,^,s, „ ! ^^A ypa , ?S ,:^, ^ . > , 4^>. 



Q g a e 1 q , I 



aa S«riB • . *" 955 






ti«« i#i iix««$fiftjr ir««««* 



1. "irelito 

2. Siplog8X«8 Stookholffl, Anitsrs, 'Vie.Tn 
?. 7'St«ll« SP?. 

tfilegra^ 5eh.Ch.?. ("aehelmveraerk fttr 
g^heiae Seicfessaohod (S.B.3D. ?6 XI) " 

SaoMfis ea gsl »«:««« ist, aaa polniach- 
aow3etl9che« Segsnaats aum off«neR Auabyaoh 
Ktt bringsn, 1st as nocfe wichtiger, in An- 
totij>fuaa; an ai«8e AktioD das giBatraaeH s«4- 
Bohsi) Englasid iyj4 der Sowjettuiioa au ver- 

»Gt»r«tsIlt »ird> dass die engiisch* Segia^ 
)fu«g die ?ol«R aa der bftkanntsa Sot« aa das 
Sate Ereug eafg«3taoljelt Ivaba. 

Xcfa bitte, alat FltSstex-propagaMa 2a di«- 
8«B 2w«c<k foXgendao 0»diaakeagang au V3r6rei~ 
t«aj la Ijr«ia«n d«r dortigea polciacbsn ?9r- 
t?«t«isg fesw. 9olui8oh»r Saigra.nten ist man 
aatyilgt*-* d«rtJb«r, dae* von englischer Seito 
<«1« S«liaM *a de« ZarwUrfaia ?ol«n ewgwaehobaa 
«t^j Aaa darsb 8«ijc« Sot* aa daa Hot« Er«tt» 
<«|« i|ia»3staftles beraaegefor^ort i>afa«. In 
St*JtltsiisJt»lt »«l. di«»e» Torgehen nioht tiur 
Sit ti*««B, »s«d«rij Boga* ««f vartraulioha An- 
ywgs^og «as««sb di« «fl«ileoh« 8»gi«raag 'o«BcJtjlos~ 
»#« w«yd«a# S3.«e» JSafe* voy alias gawuBet aiid 

i!s»S( dea9 «i!«o oaehtrttKlioh gatad«lt and faXl«a- 

3Nfti**«i>«i? Ortpraais dlassr flttatarpropa- 
iiftato 4«rf »i«fe* «i*»flobftj? »*i>d«ft, $• let 



^■^14^*^ 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1405 

Exhibit 38 — Continued 

- 2 - 



la etn«r iarXig^ts., sb«r nioht d««t$ahfs«aadli<:]3«a 
2»ita»jg od«r la itan4fank anf taa^htr 

Sasate fQ» StocJOioia ana AiUtAraj 

Say adda-QJEftagajas ic-s ^glic^hst r««oh darcfe s»«igse 

Zmmtt nar fttr 8tocJa«?lai 

Se keusjK fernsr die Saohricht lautjoi«rt werden, 

4ms Staliif voo den «agIi9o]B6a» sua. aa«fa in A4aa« 
exjt»lok«It30 Jiftaan^ dia^c3lt«ttropai8<!h«n Staataa zu 
»ia«r Slctee^eltasoac attaasDMHtaotaBaaa, »rfahren hal>». 
ly Sa&a sit dlsaer Sot* aucfe geseaei>*i> Englaad ein^ 
£xd«t|«I statolsi^si uad (uidsatsa molJiiD, daaa er j9d« 
»oleIi« Eoabiiitttion ea. zar^cblagen entfiohlossen s«i.> 

Hegarle 



iPi^ 



33?3§ 



1406 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 38] 

[50/33738] 

[ Telegra m ] 

(G. Schreiber) 



Secret 

To be haiidled as 

secret material 



Special Dispatch Ist May 1943 13 hrs. 55 
Arrival 1st May 1943 14.20 hrs. 

No. 564 of 30.4.43. 

Secret I 

State Secret 

1. Telko 

2. Diplogerma Stockholm, Ankara, Bern. 

3. V Stelle B. F. P. 

Telegram Secret Code Procedure (Secret stamp for state secrets (M. B. D. .36 
11) 

[Remark:] 

Repeated to Diplogerma 

Stockholm under No. 822 

Ankara under No. 670 

Bern under No. 953. 
Telegram contr. 1.5.43. 

After we have succeeded in bringing the Polish-Soviet hostility into open 
breach, it is the more important in referring to this action to strengthen the 
mistrust between England and the Soviet Union. This could take place by insinu- 
ating that the English Govt, incited the Poles to send their well-known note to 
the Red Cross. 

I request you with this end to spread the following line of thought as whisper- 
propaganda : In circles of the local Polish representation or emigration there 
is irritation that the blame for the dissension should be put on the Poles, for 
provoking the Soviet Union by their note to the Red Cross. In actuality this 
action was taken not only with the knowledge but also at the secret suggestion 
of the English Govt. This last knew in advance and approved the step, leaving 
the Poles the more shocked that they should afterwards be abandoned and 
reproached. 

The Germap origin of this whisper-propaganda must not be I'ecogni sable. 

[end of sheet 50/33738] 

[50/133739] 

You should aim at getting this line of thought taken up as soon as possible in a 
local, but not pro-German, newspaper or on the radio. 

Please report any press or radio discussion resulting from your efforts. 

Postscript for Stockholm and Ankara : 

This line of thought is to be brought as quickly as possible through suit- 
able middlemen to the Tass or Soviet correspondents. 

Postscript for Stockholm only: 

The information can be advanced further that the acerbity of the Molotov 
note is to be connected with the fact that Stalin has learnt of the English 
plan developed among other places in Adana, to combine the east-Euroi>ean 
states into a security zone. With this note he has intended to give an exam- 
ple to England and to make clear that he is resolved to break up any such 
combination. 

Megerle. 
[50/33739] 

Mr. Flood. I now sliow you a document marked for identification 
as exhibit No. rV.) and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1407 



Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 8th of May 1943, from the legation in 
Budapest to the foreign ministry. Orsos has been strongly impressed 
by what he saw and is convinced that the executions took place in April 
or May 1940. He will deliver a scientific lecture, but declines to 
speak on the radio or to write for the newspapers, since this might 
undermine the authority of what he says in his capacity as a scientist. 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 39 will be in evidence. 

(Exhibit 39 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 39 



S • 1 # 5 r « 



(8 - S*jhrfiib«r) 



J!adaj^ea-4, (S«fl S.Bai 194?, 15,40 Uhr 
Acltu£i*ii{ « S.S&i 194?, 1?,45 Vhx 



*) 



8ti 2410 



.*J 










f.i) M. 



At?^ fitaltax Sjr.415"'' voa 5.5. 

?rofa«»03f Ofsos 1st Mt den starkstae SindrUcksn 
von ies Unt«reachuiig 4bt OrSber von Kat-^n flach Bu<ia- 
pest SHir<iekg«ic8hrt. Er erzahlt, daea 'das Erlabte die 
bi8h«ri|j«r. B<srichte aarliber weit UbertrSf*. Aaf aranfi 
genaa*? ?fie3e«»ohaf-4iich€r friifang sel vifwlderls^fear 
fe8tg3«t«llt wozsSeii; dsas die lrmor4ans«n in den Koaa- 
tcn April Oder SEai 1940 erfolgt aelen, M Oraos eehr 
weitveygjf^igt* Beciehungen unterriSilt, l»t aaln Urteil 
eb*r Xfityu bereits in weitgn hieaigen Krelsea, besoo- 
de.r» <l'5r Poiitife and Wiaseneehsft, bekannt savsopden 
u«<l hat ««Efe »«in«r wissenachaf Uichen Autoritai; libsr-- 
all «iijea a-*;ark;-3n Siadruok hlnteriaaaen, Er boabBlcb- 
tig'c, d8!3iJaohet 9inen wissenachaf tlioh«o Tortrag Uber 
'iaa Ersjebnis de? ynteraaohut^ is fCatyn vor einer Sach- 
verstSadigen-ZyMrerschaft zu halt«n lind elnen Aufaata 
darSb«r iii der daateclien krimnalietisefeen 2eit»ckrift 
sa vayaffentXiehen, Der A«regung, den Fall von Katyn 
auch in dar Preaae oder im SaMfank au be- 
Sandeln, ssachte er aber nicht etattg«ben 
sw^ feegrlindet seine Steiltmsnahas demit, 
das« er fUrchts, durch irgend«ine politlsch- 
propagafidiatieche Ausniitzung dse Gutechvens 
8»ifle Atttoritat aelbat aa digscreditieren 
«od dacjit asioh das Oatschtsn xa ent<s-ert«x5, 
Msihsbft ihs ia Uerlin dafiiy beaondere ga- 
dankt, d&es ea sein«fi 3«ss|ilia»sen gelangsrs 
e»i, ein sehr «rf.st«t, wUrdiges and Jadsr 
wi8seR8dhaftlis&€fi l^ritik standheltendea 
0tttscJtt«r. 8»»taflde g« fertngen. Sine propa- 
eandistisichft Yarwsytang acifjer ErfaSirungan ~ 
nM Seefe*c}}tu«g»a wUrda aber 9«in«r Aasisht 
nacS d«6 W«?t d»s Satfeo^.tans vsTOindern. 
Ee»Kalb glaulj« ^ Im Iat©r«8S« ^ar Sache, 





1408 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 39 — Continued 



Oenf, den 6.Mel 1945. 



Xr-hslti Bateillijttns von Jraf cFrancois }IiiVII<IB, / ( S"* {t^At 
Gcnf , aa der ii9ratekO)ai2d.BBion in T^tynJ 

3 l>opj>el. 



Das <i*^swiirtlc,e unt ijat hier telegraflsch aogetragti 
ob irof.H a V 1 I 1 e G«netat eei, sich llbar se±a« | 
Bixidraotos ta Satyii ies &m<ifur,'>. aa &3saera. 35araafhie hftll 
dae SOBsaiat aaeh EtickBprschs mit das Gcoaiinton dem « 

AMagagtif:sn _^Et tel egrgfis ch berichtet, daee HeiT Prof, i 
Ka'O'ille Isdi^ltoh beebsichtige, im Kreise aeiDsr F80h~ ^ 
geaosaen gele^ectlich eiiaen Vortra,; fiber eeina Byfahruj**) 
sea ia Katyn au halten and im tibrisen le d«r Oeffentliolsi 
keit Oder is: Rundtank 8ich nor dena zu Suseera, aeaa di^ 
Ifttigkeit der Komftisfiioc and Sis ErgebaiBse der Cater- ; 
stichaagsn in der Ceffentlichk^tt fglscii dsrgeatellt I 

wiixdene I 




'/ 



die Deul-eche (Jesendteobeft 
Bera« 



4^ f V 

r 



^421534 



// /^-^^^ 4^ ?, /^- 



# '•VKf ,^(*^^>*^-*y»tVv*^ J 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1409 

[Translation of Exhibit 39] 
[1327/352033] 

[Telegram] 
[Code dispatch] 

Budapest the 8 Mai 1943 16,40 Hrs 
Arrival the 8 Mai 1943 17,45 Hrs 

Nr 856 of 8.5.43. 

Ref Multex No 415 f of 5.5. 

Professor Orsos returned to Budapest witli the strongest impressions of his 
examinations of the graves in Katyn. He related that the experience widely sur- 
passed the hitherto existing reports. On the grounds of exact scientific proof, 
it was irrefutably established that the murders took place in April or May 1940. 
As Orsos maintains far-reaching connections here, his judgment on Katyn has 
become known extensively in local circles, particularly those of politics and 
science, and thanks to his scientific authority has made a strong impression 
everywhere. He intends shortly to give a lecture to an expert audience on the 
results of the investigations in Katyn, and to publish a paper about them in the 
German Criminological Journal. The suggestion that he should discuss the 
Katyn case in the press or on the radio is one that he will not allow, and he bases 
his position on the fear that he would discredit his own authority through any 
exploitation of the Expert Report for purposes of political propaganda and that, 
with this, the Expert Report would also lose in value. In Berlin he was espe- 
cially thanked for succeeding in his endeavour to achieve a very serious and 
dignified Expert Report, able to withstand any scientific criticism. Any use of 
his experiences and observations for propaganda purposes would in his opinion 
however, diminish the value of the Expert Report. For this reason he intends, 
in the interests of the matter, to abstain from any such action. 

Webkmeistee. 
tRu 2410. 

[1327/352033] 

[Stamped on face 
of original : ] 
German Legation 
Bern 
Arrival 
8 May 43 
A Nr 2295. 
German Consulate 

K. Nr. 708 

Geneva the G Mai 1943 

Subject: Participation of Professor Frangois NAVILLE Geneva, in the Medical 
Commission at Katyn. 

3 Copies 

The German Foreign OflSce has enquired here by telegram, whether Professor 
Naville would agree to talk about his impression of Katyn on the radio. There- 
upon the Consulate, after consultation with Professor Naville reported to the 
German Foreign Office by telegram that Professor Naville only intends to hold 
an occasional lecture in the circle of his colleagues on his experience at Katyn, 
and only to express his opinion in public or on the radio, if the activity of the 
Commission and the results of the investigations should be wrongly represented 
in public. 

Kkauel. 
To the German Legation 
Bern. 

[5827/E. 424334] 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a documeiat marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 40 and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 



1410 



THE KATYX FOREST IMASSACRE 



Dr. Saveet. This is dated the 15th of May 19^3, from the State secre- 
tary, Steengracht, to German missions abroad. This is an information 
telegram describing the propaganda success achieved by the Germans 
in the Katyn affair and the repercussions on the relations between 
the Allied Governments of the United States, Great Britain, Russia, 
and Poland. 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit 40 is now in evidence. 

(Exhibit 40 is as follows :) 

Exhibit 40 



Aljgang ana Berlin, den 
Aakaaft la Bexn, den , 





Sr, Multex 459 Teat 15.5. - Sonder-G.achr, - 

Eur Inlomation und Sprachregelung . - *»«««• 

Entdeckung Massengraber j>olnisoher Offizierre bei 
Smolenak erregte in WeltBf fentlichkeit und insbeaondera bai 
polnisoher Emigration ausBergewiShnliohea Aufaehsn. Sfachdem 
3ich Bowohl BeutacfaeB Botea iOreuz als aucb polniache Soigran- 
tott-Bfisiaruxsg in London an' Interna tionalaa Rotes Kreua mit 
Bitte ua /ulklarung duxch Sntsendung *>elcgation gewandt hatten, 
benutzte Sow^ e tragi e rung, die bereits aelt langerer Zeit 
baupteS^chlicb wegan J?rage polniacher Ostgrenze in sehr gespatm-^ 
ten, Beaiabungen zur polntachen Smit'jrantan-Hej.leruns stand, 
Gelesenheit, eigener Aoffassong von Zu<2;ehorirV:eit Ostpolena 
zur Sow;etunlon Seltung zut verschaffen, und sich unbetiusnier 
Sikoraki-Hegierung zu entledigen, indea sie am 25.4.1945 
diplomatioche Beziehitngen zur polnischen imi,_;rariten-Regierung 
abbraoh, Durchschleijendea deutochen Props -sindaerfolg hatoen 
Sowjets nlohts anderes als Uiirchen von " arcMologischen 
tfr^berfunden " und duroh aiatliche Protokolla, ausliindiache 
Journalieten and neutrale Gariohtsmediziner widerlegte liiga 
actge^-enzuaetzen, daas polnische Offiziere von Deutschen er- 
aordet warden aelen. In Erkenntnia unerw'.lnachter KonseqiUenzen, 
die Abbmch B«ziehungen zwiechen Sowjetunion und polniochen 
toigrantanregierung nicht nur auf polnisoh-30v<jatiaohea, 
•ondam each auf aigenes Varhaitnis zur Sow^etunion haben 
fijoaeta aowie wagen ung^inatiger Sirkung auf andera kleinera 
^iteat^n in .vr.batracht iVtlantik-'Charte aetzten britiache und 
nordsoarikaniacha Horierung oofort »lt lebhaftan BamUhungen 
z«r Balla^juxig iConfliktae aln, Ala Brgebnla eb^ab polnlacha 
lSai(7antanr«^larung jfrklilruflg» dla in Form gtsEaaigt, dea 
Xnbalt itaoh Jadoeb latranalgant war. Sia ua^inj^ Praga ?:-> 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1411 

Exhibit 40 — Continued 



BefASSons Int'srn&tiQnAlan Kotec Jlretisess oni-srs triab ai.>er i 

i 
Integritat una v<illlga 3ottver;init:it ..olnlaohci- Aew^><i.;i.k, ver- ; 

tthec ?oler. frai nti las^sn sot.'ie Hilfaakt.lfec lir sia lortzu- 
i?«iters ?eraittlun,^'5t t. -'.:i^ -.Tiurie deduxc-i r.-ri ;?■-.- 1 

CiASiltch (iei- "'-" :>' J 'olsiis ont^s sicfci sol" '- ■'■ - ■ ■ - 
nioht aril u?u;»t;o, dass feruer : .- j" 

,r!.-he "iu vorslchten. BeaMhungen bewirkten l";,!!: . i c>a 
.. ; .. j;;li;s.? ;- • :t^}xns ir, SohreJben en 'Sx'^os-Y.qtt^-:: '^'^i~ 
dent^r.' arid Ilrirl r,- - .:i.i iasui. die sn .jruiidsHtslic';;-.'.!- 

Brltj-ainaig Syschinskis vor Vgrtretern britischer >i.>vl iior.'.83arika~' 
QisGh»r Presse mit BosCiialdigiiiOseri geger* polniscfcs •Ke,;;lerujrig 
v?e;:<:r; 'i-ra'j'iiertsng jsolnischer Arsaee ar-s So^jet-vmion and Spicnafta i 
v-uter so'.vie Ssneliifiigwj.^ tteaaoha j>olni5caer Kcm- •; 

' ... . .>, V 2ur Ao_f2telIun« einer " Polnisehen I>iv;Lsion " 
In Sowjotui^icc kosplizierten sO(;-&r I^sge iLii risfon ir. .;in.~l&nd 
aod ?icr4g3jeriica petjiliche Entteeaschung hervor^ ~ 

PoXfeiacb«oo'»;}eti8c;ier Koallikt ist eki&iisntea Beiapiel 
fif swlsch®n allix«rten JUSchtsn be3t9hea<ie Bifff^rflnzen. Yorgshaa; 
S*w4«tr8|:i«raiv* t'eweist; <JaB8 sit- ihr Siel dsr Bolsefeo«i3ierung i 
i'ol'Sae ^ixtd dDr'iber hinau* Suropss aov/ia ihren omaititalbaron 
.?<iX;.rxr»:£'seiispTao?.3 ir> Dst- '.mi 3tidftsteuroj>a uaentwefit waiter ver- ; 
*«lft %»3 d»3S Hoffnafi^en polnischer and iibriger Lamonor \ 

^igrsinte»r6sji«rac^eu aa? wirksaa© Onterat-'itzaivj -liiich Srit'laM 
«»^ V<?2?«i?iiSi«o Stsstfttt rSliig iilasoriaofc sind. - ■ 



Stssensrsoht + 



H24532 



1412 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 40] 
[5827/E424331] 

[Stamped on face of copy :] 

German Embassy Bern 
Arrival 
17 May 43 
File No 2440 
Annexes None 

[Telegram] 

Dispatch from Berlin on 16 May 1943 18 Hrs 40 Min German Summer Time 

Arrival at Berne on 10 May 1943 18 Hrs 00 Min Central European Time 

decoded : Code Procedure : Special Secret Script. 

Nr. Multex 459 of 15.5. Special Secret Script. Secret 

For information and use in diplomatic conversation. 

The discovery of the mass graves of Polish officers near Smolensk aroused an 
extraordinary sensation in world public opinion, and particularly among the 
Polish emigration. After the German Red Cross, as well as the Polish Emigre 
Government in London applied to the International Red Cross with a request 
for investigation by the dispatch of a delegation, the Soviet Government, whose 
relations with the Polish Emigr<^ Government had been strained for some time, 
chiefly over the question of the Polish East Frontier, used the opportunity to 
procure recognition for its own view that East Poland formed part of the Soviet 
Union, and to free itself from the unwelcome Sikorski Government by breaking 
off diplomatic relations with the Polish emigre Government on 25.4.43. Against 
the powerful and successful German propaganda the Soviets have opposed 
nothing else than a fairy tale of "Archaeological grave-discoveries" and lies, 
repeated through official declarations, foreign journalists and neutral forensic 
pathologists, that the Polish officers were murdered by the Germans. In recog- 
nition of the undesirable consequences that the break of relations between the 
Polish Emigre Government and the Soviet Union would have, not only on 
Polish-Soviet relations, but also on their own relations with the Soviet Union, 
as well as the unfavourable effects on other smaller states in view of the Atlantic 
Charter, the British and North American governments have made urgent efforts 
to settle the conflict. As a result the Polish Emigre Government published a 
statement, that in form was restrained, but in content remained intransigent. 
They avoided the question 

[end of sheet 5827/E424331] 
of the employment of the International Red Cross, but emphasised the integrity 
and full sovereignty of the Polish Republic, referred to the Polish-Soviet Agree- 
ments of the 30.7.41 and the 4.12.41., and repeated their previous demands that 
the Poles to be found in the Soviet Union should be relea.sed and a relief pro- 
gramme for them be put into action. 

Further mediatory activities were spared them in that, in the first place, the 
Polish Government, in the true point at issue, namely the East Frontier of 
Poland, could not make any concessions, without destroying itself; further, the 
English Government had already conceded the east Polish territories to the 
Soviets, and finally, the Soviet Government saw no reason to waive its claims. 
Further diplomatic efforts merely brought about Stalin's ambiguous statement 
in his letter to the Times Correspondent, and Sikorski's comment, neither of 
which altered the fundamental attitudes of the two parties. Vyschinski's aggres- 
sive remarks before representatives of British and North American Press with 



THE KATYN FOREST MA&SACRE 1413 

accusations against tlie Polish Government over the evacuation of the Polish 
Army from the Soviet Union and the espionage of a Polish official, as well as the 
application by the Polish Communist Group, which was granted, to raise a 
"Polish Division" in the Soviet Union even complicated the situation and brought 
about painful disappointment in England and North America. 

The Polish-Soviet conflict is an outstanding example of the existing differences 
between the allied powers. The attitude of the Soviet Government proves that 
she is steadfastly moving towards the goal of bolshevising Poland and, beyond 
that, Europe as well as her claims to direct supremacy in East and South I'^ast 
Europe, and that the hopes of the Polish and other London emigr^ governments 
of active support through England and the United States are completely illusory. 

Please acknowledge receipt of Telegram. 

Steengracht. 

Mr, Flood. I show you a document marked for identification as 
exhibit No. 41, and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
summary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the 21st of May 1943, from the head of 
the Cultural Policy Department, Six, to the Legation in Bern. This is 
a list of the Poles identified at Katyn. There are additional lists, 
unfilmed, in the same file. 

Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 41 is now in evidence. 

(Exhibit 41 was not included in the published record because it contains names 
of victims buried in Katyn which already appear in Exhibit 5A, Part 3, Chicago 
hearings. Exhibit 41, however, will remain as part of the committee's permanent 
file.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a document marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 42 and I ask you to describe what it is and give your 
sinnmary of it. 

Dr. Sweet. This is dated the I7th (tf July 1943, from the Foreign 
Minister, Kibbentrop, to the Embassy in Madrid: Instructions to 
tell Jordana, the Spanish Foreign Minister, and Franco, that the Ger- 
man Government finds it incomprehensible that the Spanish Govern- 
ment should have influenced Dr. Piga to say that he could not take 
part in the investigation after all because of sickness. 



1414 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mr. Flood. Exhibit No. 42 is now in evidence. 
(Exhibit 42 is as follows:) 

Exhibit 42 






av;i,Ae-..a^, Ssa 2.7. ^ail I9<? 















toil tei^ta Sift fe«i n&j!»*.ar 0elag«a>.«it feci« 
3s«i cft*^ig«?.»ig dey Jufeae^ijgfSlfcsr von Katjc, 41 a sloh 

iprtlssdao naaJi Ifetdylii asirlkfeHsiir.dTi h^^s-^,, fir Mttaa 
S«ia^rl!» toss *8 iiii<»V; hier uw «£!»« diS(Xcaat&»oh« | 

SCiojsrvi«« US' > fig* Mtt« etur Falge &«l»i.^t* {i«9« daus 

$«rcll<^ »«i* Dt«0 wi(r« uawo 1>«teu*rjiiRh«:[K, aX« at«js% ^ 

mar vtorl^iMttd vM \mtiF9xaA9ii*t ei»^«3m «»fib «Mml8r«]ui 



04078 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1415 

Exhibit 42 — Continued 



- 8 «. 

lob bitt« 31*, 1>*i I!sy<«r t)tot«tT«4w% <li)y<A%iliQac«K : 

faoh any«»»t«B41iob «•!, aecaa wlr lt«im-fe«Q 4eoh niofct 

di« boi8Gh«»i«tl*eh«a tr«j*i f««t!»ttll«a sta Xaaasa, 
wMhrsnd andmrcrssita di« afi}rB'»ls«r S9gl*ru.«s Iratiss Se<» 
d«c!£»9 dagft^ss g«hal>t h«b9, «iE»»a Ihrer Xrst« sa.<t. 

wlrkea »oXX«tt« 



OIS' 



93744— 52— pt. 5 13 



1416 THE KATYN FOREST ]VIASSACRE 

[Translation of Exhibit 42] 
[Telegram] 

To be handled as 
secret matter 

Special dispatch of 17 July 43 16.00 Hrs 

Arrival 17 July 43 17.15 Hrs 

Comment: BRAM/291/R Tel(ephone) Co(ntrol) 

Relayed to To Diplogerma Madrid 

Diplogerma Madrid Telegram in code, 

as No. 3340. Secret Code Procedure. 
Tel(ephone) Control. 17.7. 

Personal for Ambassador. 

I request you at the next opportunity to bring to the notice of Foreign Minister 
Count Jordana and also General Munoz Grandes, for the attention of General 
Franco, our regrets that Spain was not represented in the Medical Commission 
composed of representatives of allied, friendly and neutral states, whose author- 
ity is recognised. It is true that Spain sent the forensic pathologist Professor 
Dr. Piga to Berlin. He showed great interest in visting the mass-graves. After 
a visit to the Spanish Ambassador in Berlin he suddenly declared that, on 
grounds of health, he had to return to Madrid. According to our information 
this illness was of a diplomatic character, the Spanish Ambassador on instruction 
from the Spanish Foregin Minister, having forbidden him the journey to Katyn. 
The return (to Madrid) of Dr Piga had the consequence that friendly Spain did 
not take part in the confirmation of the atrocities of Bolshevism, which was the 
subject of general comment. This was more to be regretted in that, not only 
allied and friendly states, but also neutrals — as for example Switzerland — sent 
recognised medical authorities 

[end of sheet 88/64078] 
[88/64079] 
to Katyn. These also set their signatures to the document in which the Bolshevik 
atrocities were delineated with scientific accuracy. 

I request you, at this conversation to suggest that the Spanish behaviour is 
completely unintelligible to us, as we cannot believe that the Spanish Government 
is afraid to establish the facts of the Bolshevist atrocities, while the Swiss on the 
the other hand have no objection to sending one of their medical authorities to 
Katyn, or that the Spanish Government wants to prevent the revelation of Bol- 
shevist atrocities. 

Please report on the reception of your demarche. 

RiBBENTROP. 

[sheet 88/64079] 

Mr. Flood. I might say, doctor, that the committee realizes the 
extensive work and the great time and effort that you and your asso- 
ciates obviously put in, on the request of this committee, to select, 
from the very vast library of documents that you have, this group that 
you have presented here this morning, and we are very grateful. 

•Dr. Sweet. Thank you very much. 

Chairman Madden. The committee thanks you for your testimony. 

TESTIMONY OP HANS BLESS, STEINHEIM, GERMANY, WESTPHALIA 
(THKOUGH INTERPEETEK VON HAHN) 

Chairman Madden. Hans Bless. 

Will you just give your name and address to the reporter 'i 
Mr. Bless. Hans Bless ; Steinheim. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Bless, do you object to being photographed ? 
Mr. Bless. I don't mind. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Bless, before you testify, it is our wish to 
invite your attention to the fact that, under German law, you will not 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1417 

be liable for slander or libel, in either civil or criminal proceedings, 
for anything you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the 
truth. At the same time, the Congress of the United States, or the 
House of Representatives, will not assume any responsibility for your 
behalf with respect to libel or slander proceedings which may arise 
as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, I do. 

Chairman Madden. All right, will you stand and be sworn ? 

Do you swear, by God the Almighty, that, to the best of your knowl- 
edge, you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth ; so help you God ? 

Mr. Bless. I do. 

Chairman Madden. Proceed. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 

Mr. Bless. Hans Bless. 

Mr. Flood. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Bless. At present I am a salesman. 

Mr. Flood. Where? 

Mr. Bless. Steinheim, Westphalia. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified with the Wehrmacht ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Were you a member of the German armed forces in 
1943? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, I was. 

Mr, Flood. Were you on the Russian, or eastern front ? 

Mr. Bless. I was also on the eastern front. 

Mr. Flood. With what unit ? 

Mr. Bless. Reconnaissance unit. 

Mr. Flood. Wlien did you move into the Smolensk area ? 

Mr. Bless. I will have to elaborate a little bit on that. 

On the 1st of March of 1943, the Rzew bridgehead was abandoned. 
At that time, during all that retreat, I was the leader of the covering 
rear unit. It was in the vicinity of Dorogubush when the front line 
again became consolidated. Inasmuch as during all of that retreat I 
was covering the rear, subsequently I was sent to a resting place. 

This happened sometime during the middle of March of 1943. 

During that retreat, rumors were rife that somewhere at the 
Smolensk area, mass graves of Polish prisoners had been discovered. 
I no longer accurately recall whether or not I was oflScially ordered 
to proceed to Katyn ; however, I still do know that I eventually trav- 
eled to Katyn in an automobile. However, I do definitely remember 
that the division at that time prepared special gToups, which sub- 
sequently had been dispatched to Katyn. 

Mr, Flood. Did you see the location of the graves? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, I did, 

Mr. Flood. When were you there? 

Mr. Bless. I estimate I was there around the end of March; it 
might perhaps have been around the 20th or 25th of March. 

Mr. Flood. The exhumations were already going on when you got 
there, were they? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, they were. 



1418 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Did you talk to any Russian civilians in the area at 
any time? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. What was the nature of those conversations? 

Mr. Bless. It was during a survey of the graves. There was a 
small group of us standing together. 

And when I say "us" I am referring to a group of German soldiers 
and a serviceman. 

I don't know who said, "Well, there is a Russian civilian standing 
out there in front." It was an old Russian of about — well, in my esti- 
mation, 70 years of age. 

This Russian is also in a position to tell something. It would, 
however, be practical to offer him a cigarette right at the outset. 

The Russian civilian testified approximately as follows: "Several 
years ago — it was in the spring — a transport of prisoners of war ar- 
rived on a train at the nearest railroad station," that subsequently, 
the entire area where the graves were located had been cordoned on, 
as well as — as he expressed himself — a cottage where Kommissars were 
purportedly residing; that Polish prisoners of war had subsequently 
been taken to that area on trucks. The shooting reportedly took place 
every day in the early hours of the morning. 

And I believe that is all. 

Mr. Flood. Was that the only Russian civilian to whom you spoke ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, that was the only one I spoke to. However, I 
happened to see some more Russian civilians around. They were busy, 
they were working. 

Mr. Flood. At what stage was the exhumation when you were there ; 
what degree of exhumation ? 

Mr. Bless. I was there when the exhumation of the second grave 
was just begun. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see the bodies closely enough to observe how 
they may have been killed ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Did you pay any attention as to whether or not the 
hands were tied ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Did you observe anything with reference to documents 
or what may be described as the personal effects of any of the dead 
bodies ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. There was a series of — as I should put it — per- 
sonal property of no practical value at all, such as handkerchiefs, 
papers, letters. But on the chest of either a colonel or a lieutenant 
colonel, there was a diary lying on his chest. It might perhaps be of 
interest to note that the pockets of all of the uniform coats had been 
cut by scissors in order to gain easier access to the pockets of the 
uniforms. 

_ With respect to the tyino^ of the hands, I wish to indicate that par- 
tially the hands were tied by wire. In one instance, I recall he must 
have been tied by his own belt. In various other instances, the hands 
were tied by pieces of string or rope. 

Mr. Flood. Were you close enough to actually observe that yourself ? 

Mr. Bless. Well, in one instance, for example, of a body that had 
been lying on its back, I actually investigated how his hands were 
bound. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1419 

Mr. Flood. You mentioned a diary. Did you have a chance to look 
at or see the diary ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, I did. I said, "Well, it is too bad nobody around 
here speaks Polish." Subsequently, however, we found a German 
noncommissioned officer who spoke Polish; whose name, however, I 
don't know. 

Then we picked up the diary, which had been lying on the chest of 
this colonel or lieutenant colonel, as I indicated before, and the non- 
commissioned officer subsequently translated practically all of the 
diary to us. 

Mr. Flood. Can you give us the gist of what it said, the meat of 
what it said? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. 

He set forth in writing, first, the circumstances of his capture ; that 
subsequently all of them were herded into a large camp ; later, part of 
the inmates of the camp were taken away somewhere, so that eventually 
nothing but officers remained in the camp. 

Mr. Flood, Do you happen to remember, or did you notice ; and if 
you did notice, do you remember the last date of entry on the diary ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. As a matter of fact, I recall it precisely. 

Mr. Flood. What was it? 

Mr. Bless. Adolph Hitler's birthday was on the 20th of April. 

Mr. Flood. What was the date recorded ? 

Mr. Bless. The last entry in the diary-was the 20th of April, because 
I recall I made a remark. In a jocular mood, I said, "Well, as a 
reward from the Russians to Adolph Hitler for having given them a 
portion of Poland, the Russians killed those officers." 

Mr. Flood, What was the date of the diary ? 

Mr. Bless. The last date was the 20th of April. 

Mr. Flood. What year? 

Mr. Bless. 1940. 

Mr. Flood, In your conversations with any Russians, or the Russian 
to whom you talked, did that Russian indicate any opinion as to who 
did the shootings ? 

Mr, Bless, If I remember correctly, this one Russian I spoke to held 
it was the Red army who did the shootings. 

Mr. Flood, Did you happen to hear of any Russians or any rumors 
in the area that any Russians blamed the Germans for the shooting? 

Mr, Bless. No, t did not ; not at that time, at least. I think the 
first time I heard about that was sometime in 1946. 

Mr. Flood. Where, in 1946, did you ever hear that kind of talk? 

Mr. Bless, It was here in Germany. I read it in the papers. It 
was in connection with the Nuremberg Tribunal proceedings. 

Mr. Flood. But you never talked to any Russians who said that or 
heard of any Russians who said that in 1943 ; is that it ? 

Mr. Bless. No ; at least, I don't remember. 

Mr. Flood. That is all. 

Mr. DoNDERO. No questions. 

Mr. Machrowicz. No questions. 

Chairman Madden. We want to thank you for your testimony. 

I might say to the photographers : I hope you will comply with the 
request that we all respect the rights of any witnesses who do not wish 
to be photographed. In any event, do not take any photographs until 
the question is propounded to them. The next witness does not object. 

Dr. Tramsen is the next witness. 



1420 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

TESTIMONY OF DR. HELGE TRAMSEN, COPENHAGEN, DENMARK 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, would you give the reporter your name 
and address, please ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Helge Tramsen ; Copenhagen. 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, before jou testify, it is our wish to 
invite your attention to the fact that, under German law, you will 
not be liable for slander or libel, either in criminal or civil proceedings, 
for anything you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the 
truth. At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither 
tlie Government of the United States nor the Congress of the United 
States assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel 
or slander proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. Now, if you will stand and be sworn. 

Do you swear, by God the Almighty, that you will, according to 
the best of your knowledge, tell the pure truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth ; so help you God ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Helge Tramsen. 

Do you want the full name ? 

Mr. Flood. Yes. 

Dr. Tramsen. Helge Andreas Boysen Tramsen. 

Mr. Flood. What is your present occupation ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I am a practitioner in Copenhagen and, at the same 
time, a lecturer at the university, teaching at the high school of 
physical training, and a surgeon commander in the Royal Danish 
Navy. 

Mr. Flood. You practice medicine, I suppose ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Flood. How long have you been engaged in the practice of 
medicine ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I did my final examination in 1936 at the Copen- 
hagen University, and later I had training in hospitals and scientific 
institutes in Copenhagen. 

Mr. Flood. You indicated that you are a reserve surgeon in the 
Danish armed forces, did you? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Where did you get your surgery? 

Dr. Tramsen. I got my surgery at the university clinic in Copen- 
hagen, Rigs Hospital, and several other hospitals; and from 1940, 
November, I studied and did scientific Work at the Institute of Medico- 
Legal Medicine. In 19-43 I was prosector — you call it — at this insti- 
tute. 

Mr. Flood. In 1943, what had been your experience in the general 
or special field of pathology? 

Dr. Tramsen. Three years of training in pathology and medico- 
legal medicine at the University Institute in Copenhagen. 

Mr. Flood. Had you experience in the performance of post mortems 
or autopsies on human bodies? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I had. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1421 

Mr. Flood. All areas of the human body ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. What is your experience in the field of forensic or legal 
medicine ? 

Dr. Tramsen. In those 3 years I worked — it was altogether 4 
years — I worked at the University Institute of Medico-Legal Medi- 
cine. I did every day post mortems of murder cases and sudden death 
of unnatural cause. 

]Mr. Flood. I direct your attention to the year of 1943 and ask 
you whether or not, in that year, the matter of the Katyn Forest mas- 
sacres was brought to your attention ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I have read about it in the Danish press. 

Mr, Flood. Did the then German Government subsequently, in any 
way, communicate with you with reference to your serving profes- 
sionally in connection with that incident? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. On April 22, 1943, I had the offer from the 
Danish Foreign Office ta be a member of a committee, consisting of 
scientists and medico-legal specialists, that should go to Katyn to 
investigate the tombs and do post mortems on the dead bodies there. 
And the secretary of foreign affairs in Copenhagen told me that this 
invitation had come straight from the Reichsgesundheitsfuehrer, Dr. 
Conti, in Berlin. 

]Mr. Flood. Then I understand that the invitation from the then 
German Government did not come directly to you but was trans- 
mitted to you by the then Danish Foreign Office. Is that correct? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. And what did you reply ? 

Dr. Tramsen. The first invitation had come to my chief. Professor 
Sand, and he was a very old man and didn't feel like going on this 
long journey. So he pointed me out because at that time I was a 
military doctor as well, and he thought it would be possibly the best 
thing to have a military surgeon as well going on this job. 

IVIr. Flood. Your chief where? 

Dr. Tramsen. At the University Institute for Medico-Legal Medi- 
cine. 

Mr. Flood. You were so designated, then, as I understai¥l it? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

And may I add there that I had an official order from the Danish 
Minister of Foreign Affairs, as well as the admiralty, to join the com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Flood. So your appearance upon this international medical 
commission was not the result of any direct or personal negotiations 
between you and the then German Government? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. Flood. I presume you then took your place with the com- 
mission. Will you, in your own words, just tell us what developed 
up until the point you reached Katyn? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. On April 27, 1943, I was taken by a special 
plane from Copenhagen to Berlin. 

Mr. Flood, May I interrupt? I, of course, take for gxanted that 
you were aware that on April 15, 1943, the Germans had made the 
announcement of their discovery at the Katyn Forest; followed 2 



1422 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

days later, on April 17, by the Russian announcement or the Russian 
reply to the German charges ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Will you proceed ? 

Dr. Tramsen. In Berlin I was presented in the Hotel Adlon to 
the other members of this medical scientific committee by Dr. Zietz, 
from the Reichsgesundheitsamt. I knew several of these gentlemen 
beforehand by name through international scientific circles. 

Mr. Flood. Do you at this time think you can give us the names of 
the men who were on the commission with you ? 

Dr. Tramsen". From Belgium, Professor Speleers. 

Mr. Flood. When you read that, will you also state the name of the 
university, or his identity ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

This Professor Speelers was professor in ophthalmology in the Uni- 
versity of Ghent. 

Dr. Markov, lecturer at the Institute of Forensic Medicine and 
Criminology, University of Sofia, Bulgaria. 

No. 3 was me. 

No. 4, Professor Saxen, Professor of Pathologic Anatomy in Hel- 
sinki, Finland. 

Professor Palmieri, professor in medico-legal medicine and crimi- 
nology in the University of Naples. 

Professor Miloslawich, professor of medico-legal medicine and 
criminology. University of Agram, Croatia. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, you might like to Iniow that Dr. Miloslawich 
has already testified before this committee, at its hearings in America, 
in the city of Chicago. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. Professor Burlet, professor of anatomy in 
Groningen, Holland. Professor Hajek, professor of medico-legal 
medicine and criminology in Prague. Dr. Birkle, forensic specialist 
for the Rumanian Minister of Justice and prosecutor at the Institute 
of Medico-legal Medicine and Criminology, Bucharest, Rumania. 
Professor Naville, professor of medico-legal medicine, University of 
Geneva. Professor Subik, professor of pathologic anatomy, Univer- 
sity of Pr^ssburg, Czechoslovakia. 

No. 12, Professor Orsos, professor of forensic medicine and crimi- 
nology, University of Budapest. This is the total list. 

And Professor Orsos was chosen chairman of the committee because 
he was, I should say, the most well known specialist and he had the 
advantage that he could speak Rusian fluently, having been a Russian 
prisoner of war in Russia for 4 years during the First World War. 

Mr. Flood. Who selected Dr. Orsos as the chairman of the delega- 
tion? 

Dr. Tramsen. We did that between us. 

Mr. Flood. Then Dr. Orsos was elected or selected as chairman by 
his fellow scientists who were members of the delegation, as you 
have just described? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Were there any consultants or German delegations or 
scientists who cooperated or were with you at the time ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; several doctors and specialists, of which I don't 
recall all the names, from the University Institute of Forensic Medi- 



THE KATYN FOREST MA&SACRE 1423 

cine in Berlin. Professor Miller Hess was the chief, and his second 
assistant was there, I remember. Dr. Huber. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall a Dr. Buhtz ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. But he was not in Berlin ; he was in Smolensk 
and we met him out there. He was ordinary professor of forensic 
medicine in the University of Breslau. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see him present at. any time at Katyn when you 
were there ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. He was actually the leader of the whole expedi- 
tion and examinations during the days we stayed in Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Representing the German Government? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; representing the German Government. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall any French delegate or any French rep- 
resentative ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. There was a rather elderly professor. Dr. 
Costedoat, who did not take much part in the negotiations as he said 
he was sent only from the French Govermnent to investigate what 
we were doing. He was a specialist in psychology. 

Mr. Flood. Did you go to Berlin ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. And early next morning we were taken in 
German military airplanes from Tempelhof , landing midway in War- 
saw and finishing up in Smolensk at 6 or 7 o'clock in the evening, a 
1,600-mile flight. 

Mr. Flood. Wlien did you get to the graves at the Katyn Forest? 

Dr. Tramsen. Next morning, about 10 o'clock. 

We were collected at the house of the Wehrmacht, where we stayed 
for the night, and taken in Germany military buses out to the Katyn 
woods about 16 kilometers west of Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Will you describe, in your own words, your first im- 
pression and your obervations of what you saw immediately upon ar- 
riving at the scene of the graves ? 

Dr. Tramsen. The first thing we saw was a rather sparse wood of 
fir trees, and there was a terrible smell of decay. And then we saw, 
in a sort of lane, a long line of dead bodies that had already been 
extracted from the tombs. 

This is the first few I saw (producing photograph). 

We were taken immediately to the tombs. 

Mr. Flood. May I interrupt ? 

Will the stenographer mark for identification this photograph as 
exhibit No. 43 ? 

(The photograph referred to marked for identification "Exhibit 
43.") 

Mr. Flood. I now show you a photograph marked for identification 
as exhibit No. 43 and ask you. Doctor, to describe what that is. 

Dr. Tramsen. In this picture you see about 20 rows of dead bodies 
and anything up to 15 dead bodies in each row ; all fully dressed in 
typical uniform dresses and with their boots in rather good condition. 
That was about the first thing I observed. 



1424 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Mv. Flood. We will offer that in evidence. 
(Exhibit 43 is as follows :) 

Exhibit No. 43 





Rows of exhumed bodies at Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who took that picture ? 

Dr. Tramsen. The Germans took that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In your presence? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Has this been in your possession ever since ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Until you presented it here this morning ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Very well. 

Dr. Tramsen. Secondly, we were taken to the tombs, of which we 
soon counted seven. They were lying in various heights on a sloping 
hill. We went down into some of the tombs, as you see me on this pic- 
ture standing along by the dead bodies. 

Mr. Flood. Just a moment. 

We now ask the stenographer to mark for identification a photo- 
graph as exhibit No. 44. 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 



1425 



(The photograph referred to was marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 44" and is as follows :) 



Exhibit 44 





Profesvor Subik and Dr. '^Irarn^en (on left) standing in mass grave. 



1426 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness exhibit No. 44, a photograph, 
and ask him to identify the photograph and the persons who are on 
the photograph. 

Dr. Tramsen. In this picture, you see the bottom of one of the 
tombs, filled up with dead bodies, and by the side of these dead bodies 
are two of the members of the committee : Professor Subik and me. 

Mr. Flood. I take for granted, Doctor, that these two exhibits thus 
far introduced and the others — if you have any that will be intro- 
duced — are photographs, as you say, taken by the Germans, given to 
you, and have been in your custody up until you presented them to the 
committee this morning ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Proceed. 

Dr. Tramsen. We tried to make an impression of how many dead 
bodies some of these tombs could hold, and in one of these tombs it 
seemed to be quite an easy job because the dead bodies were all lying 
in very even sheets, and we could count the dead bodies in the line 
and in the sheets because at the site of the tombs the tomb would 
deck down to the lowest sheet. 

Mr. Dondero. Do you mean tiers. Doctor ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Just a moment. 

Will the stenographer mark another photograph as exhibit 45 ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1427 

(The photograph referred to was marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 45" and is as follows:) 

Exhibit 45 



Katyn victims buried in tiers. 



1428 THE KATYN FOREST JSIASSACRE 

Ml-. Flood. I now show you a photograph marked as exhibit 45 and 
ask 3'ou if he can identify that photograph and describe it. 

Dr. Tramsen. Tliis photograph only shows various layers of the 
dead bodies with all the heads lying in the same line. 

Mr. Flood. Will you let me have the other photographs so that we 
will be able to make them as exhibits as we did with the doctor's earlier. 
We do this only for the purpose of saving time. We did the same 
thing with the documents just presented by the other witnesses. 

Will the stenographer mark these photographs for identification as 
exhibit 46 and in sequence. They are photographs for the purpose of 
exhibits. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1429 



(The documents referred to were marked ''Frankfurt Exhibits Nos. 
46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, and 60," and are 
shown as follows:) 

Exhibit 46 





Professor Buhtz (on left) mj)resence of Men 

from body. 



iiuiraLion papers 



1430 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

ExniiiiT 47 




View ^i auLui;.., Uii.l... showing members of International Medical Cuuiiuissiun at wurk. 



Exhibit 48 



Dr. Tramsen (with cap on) belectiug boiiy I'loiu mass grave. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 49 



1431 




Dr. Tramscn perl'ormins autopsy at Katya. 



93744— 52— pt. 5 14 



1432 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 50 




Prof. Frantisek Hajek removing boot of Katyn dead. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 51 



1433 




Profssor Miloslavicb examining identification paper of Katyn victim as Dr. Tramsen 

watches. 



1434 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 52 



-^. 





■■"**lSiki;. 

Skull of Katyn viotiu 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 53 



1435 





Polish officer's hands tied with cord. 



1436 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 54 




MS* i 

I'c! ^li i.llirfi-'hi diary. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 55 



1437 



Personal belongings of a Polish general. 



1438 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 56 




In German institute at Smolensk. Professor ]Mil(^slavicli liol.ling skull. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 57 



1439 





Final meeting of committee at the institute in Smolensk. Dr. Buhtz, German professor, 

standing. 



Exhibit 58 






Professor Orsos aiul otlier Medical Commission members discussing German protocol with 
members of the Health Ministry. 



1440 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 59 





„!it : I)r. Zietz, Professor Navillo, I'rofessor Subik, Professor Palniieri, uiiicleiitified, 

I'roldssor ISIiloslavich, Professor Hajek, I'rofessor Orsos, unidentified. Dr. Tramsen, Dr. 
Conte, Dr. Markhov, Dr. Klrkle, Professor Bulitz, I'rofessor de Burlet. Professor Speleers, 
Dr. Costedoat, Professor Saxen, and two German secretaries from tlie ministry of liealtta. 
Photo taken in courtyard of Hotel Adlon In Berlin. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 60 



1441 




Members of committee walking past Dnieper Castle in Katyn Woods. 



1442 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 





Katyu vii-tini's diary, date visibh- us Ai>ril H». 

Mr. Flood. Proceed, please. 

Dr. Tkamsen. Approximately, we could reckon that not less than 
2,500 dead bodies could be held in the biggest of these tombs, and a 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1443 

varying number, small numbers, in each of the other tombs. But how 
many altogether we did not make any statement at that time, un- 
fortunately. 

The next thing w^as that, under the leadership of Professor Buhtz, 
one of the dead bodies was extracted from a place in one of the tombs 
that the committee pointed out itself. This body was put on a wooden 
table and the committee collected around it were able, with Professor 
Buhtz, to identify the body as you see on the picture, exhibit 46. It 
could be done because we found in the pockets of the uniform jacket 
several personal j^apers and between them some letters, but I do not 
recall the name of that special first dead body we examined. This was 
what actually happened that morning, and we returned about mid- 
day to Smolensk. 

The further investigations of the tombs took place the next day 
with the post-mortem autopsies. As you already have been told about 
the titles of the members of the committee, some of these committee 
members were not specialists in forensic medicine, so we had decided 
upon that only those with forensic medical specialist training should do 
the postmortems, and that was nine of us. 

Mr. Flood. The decision to have you nine of the entire commission 
conduct the postmortems was a decision made by agreement of the 
scientists on the commission ? 

Dr. Tramsen. On the whole commission; yes. 

Mr. Flood. And not by any German decision ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

So, we, next morning, went to the wood at quarter past nine to 
jDroceed with the examinations. As you see, on exhibit 47, six tables for 
autopsies were put up in an open space in the wood. The Germans had 
supplied us with typists, interpreters, secretaries, and all instruments, 
rubber gloves, rubber aprons, and everything necessary for postmortem 
autopsies. I went down about 10 o'clock in one of the tombs, as you 
see on exhibit 48. 

Mr. Flood. You are using the term "tomb" interchangeably with 
"grave" ; is that so ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, that is the same. 

In one of the graves, and with me was a German secretary and an 
assistant doctor and one of the civilian Russian workers that was 
working for the Germans in the place. I chose myself the very place 
where I wanted to extract a body and this is what you see on exhibit 
48. This dead body was put on a table and I examined it from the 
outside. I could see the body was dressed in a Polish uniform. 

Mr. Flood. How did you know it was a Polish uniform ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I could see the buttons with the Polish eagle and I 
could see the badge of the uniform cap which was lying next to the 
body. 

Mr. Flood. You are holding in your hand at this moment what 
appears to be a uniform badge. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Is that one of the badges taken from one of the bodies? 

Dr. Tramsen. That is a badge taken from the cap of that dead body 
I extracted. ^ 

Mr. Flood. May we see that, please? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 



1444 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. And tliis has been in your possession ever since you 
yourself took it from the uniform of one of the dead bodies at 
Katyn under the circumstances you have described; is that correct? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; that's right. 

Mr. Flood. And you described this as the Polish eagle insignia taken 
from the cap of a Polish officer's body at Katyn ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Will the stenographer mark the cap insignia as "Exhibit 
61" for identification? 

(Actual insignia in committee file.) 

(The article referred to was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 61," 
and a photograph is shown as follows :) 




Cap insignia of Polish victim. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, I now show you exhibit 61 marked for identifica- 
tion and ask you whether or not that is the insignia taken from the 
cap of a Polish officer's body at the grave at Katyn ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. That is in evidence. 

Dr. Tramsen. My next job was to try and identify this dead body 
and it didn't take me a long time because in the right side of the 
uniform jacket, the inside pocket, 1 found the military pass of this 
officer, with a I'ed mark of mobilization, and his name very clearly to be 
read, as Ludwig Szyminski, and his address as Krakow-Miasto, 
stamped on the front page. On the other side, there was a place for a 
photograph but, unfortunately, this had been so spoiled that nothing 
could be seen on the photograph. But, underneath, with a special 
significance for identification, it has "eyebrows," "beard," "height," 
and so forth. 

Mr. Flood. Will the stenographer put these two described papers, 
the mobilization notice and the identification slip, together and mark 
them as "Exhibit 62"? 

(The documents referred to were marked "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 
62," and placed in the committee files. A photograph is shown as 
follows:) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1445 



Exhibit 62 



KSIAZECZKA 



STANU 8LU2BY 



OFICERSKIEJ 







I wskut>:-k i 



L L 



Mobilization notice and identification slip of Polish officer. 



1446 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 62 — Continued 



tWMiWMtt«t(i^^iii«i>ti<SJ 









T l.-^ 



U J $<j pi a: 



Specials* «».'»• 



Twarx 








JMohilizatioii notice and identiOcation slip of Polish ollicer taken from body. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1447 

Mr. Flood. I show you exhibit 62 for identification and ask you 
if that is the identification slip and the mobilization order to which 
you just referred? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Besides, I found a lot of papers, newspapers, and, as well, a pocket- 
book. This showed very clearly that the owner must have been a 
chemist. It was a Polish pocket book from Bayer Meister Lucius, a 
German medical firm, giving all the details about the doses of this 
medical firm. Another little extraordinary detail was that the officer 
probably must have been a stamp collector, because he had an envelope 
with some Russian and Polish stamps in his pocketbook. 

Mr. Flood. Will the stenographer mark as "Exhibit 63" for identi- 
fication this envelope containing the package of stamps the doctor 
has just described? 

(The envelope referred to was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 63," 
and placed in the committee files. A photograph is shown as follows.) 



93744— 52— pt. 5 1 5 



1448 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 








1 












4 






.■^ * F'^^^^-^^'-^'^ 






' w| larais^*:*^ ^ ^ 




























- ■■•. — « -: 







THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1449 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, I now show you an envelope, marked for identi- 
fication as "Exhibit 63," containing these stamps you have just de- 
scribed. Take a look at those stamps. Are those the stamps you have 
just mentioned? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, they are. 

Mr. Flood. Go ahead. 

Dr. Tramsen. In the pocketbook I found several Polish bank 
notes. 

Mr. Floc»d. Wliat is the name of that type of currency ? 

Dr. Tramsen. These are zloty. 

That was not extraordinai'y, because they were found in masses on 
pretty well all the bodies extracted from the grave. 

Mr. Flood. Mark for identification as "Exhibit 64" this envelope 
containing the zloty just described by the doctor. 



1450 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



(The envelope referred to was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 64," 
and is shown as follows.) 



Exhibit 64 



Vi 



Polish zioty (currency) found on body of Katyn victim. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1451 



1452 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 64 — Continued 




ilisli zliily ((•urruiic.v) round on ImhIv ol' Kntyn \iclini. 



I 

I 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1453 



Exhibit 64 — Continued 




**„ '".^ix^i&mS^Si^Sx^ ^SL ~. -*S' ~ s~ X .~iit&i^ -</>y ™» -"^^xSfc!. 



t 
-J 



-> ^iJ* •^^'s?' 






Polish zloty (currency) found on body of Katyn victim. 



1454 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 64 — Continued 





Mr. Flood. I now show you, doctor, this envelope, marked for 
identification as exhibit G-t, containing the zloty you just described. 
Look at that envelope. Is this the zloty you have described ? 

Dr. Tramsen. They are. 

It was remarkable that we didn't find anything of great value, like 
fountain pens or watches. I didn't find any on this body either, but 
I found two small coins in the waistcoat pocket — 5 and 10 grozy. 

Mr. Flood. The envelope containing the coins just indicated will 
be marked as exhibit 65 for identification and placed in the committee 
files. 

(The envelope referred to was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit No. 65," 
and a photograph is shown as follows:) , 

Exhibit 65 




^- V 



Polish coins found on exliumed body. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, I show you an envelope marked for identifica- 
tion as exhibit 65 containing the coins to which you have just referred. 
Will you examine the envelope and does it contain those coins? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; it does. 

Chairman Madden. We'll have a 3-minute recess. 

(Wliereupon, a recess was taken.) 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, when we recessed, you were in the process of con- 
tinuing your story. Will you go on from there ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1455 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; I was telling about doing the identification of 
this dead body that ^Yas removed from one of the graves. 

Having cut open the uniforms and clothes, I could remark that 
they must have been on the dead body for quite a while, a long time, 
because the underclothes were more or less compact with the skin. 
But they were all in the proper size and all buttoned up. I could 
remark that he was definitely warmly dressed, having two kinds of 
underwear and a thick, wooly scarf. The boots were in good condi- 
tion. I remarked that the hands were tied in the back with a sort of 
thick white rope ; I should think about a quarter of an inch in diameter, 
possibly, and the string was cut right through the skin, nearly to the 
bone. That has surely happened after death. 

Mr. Flood. At that point, you were describing that the hands of the 
body 370U were examining were tied with a rope, the nature of which 
you described. During your stay at Katyn, did you have occasion 
to observe that any other bodies found there were similarly tied? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I should think that the committee altogether, 
and I as well, saw some 800 dead bodies, out of which only a few were 
not tied with their hands on their back. 

Mr. Flood. Did you liappen to ooserve whether or not any of the 
bodies with the hands tied were tied with any wire ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I saw that in at least two cases, and, in some 
other cases, they were tied with leather straps — possibly, the soldier's 
belt. 

Mr. Flood. You mentioned that the particular body that you were 
working on at the time was warmly dressed — woolen scarf, winter 
underwear, etc. During the course of your stay at Katyn and your 
observation of the other bodies, did you observe whether or not any 
of them wore overcoats? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, most of them carried overcoats, some of a bit 
civilian kind — thick-skinned coats, and even a few fur coats in between. 

Mr. Flood. Did you observe any of the bodies wearing leather 
jackets or knitted pull-over sweaters or that kind of thing? 

Dr. Tramsen. I cannot remember having seen any leather jackets, 
but I have seen lots of woolly pull-overs and woolly knitted jumpers 
and things like that under the uniform Jackets. 

Mr. Flood. There is no doubt, at least in your mind, from your ob- 
servations, that the bodies wore winter clothing? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. They wore winter clothes. 

Mr. Flood. Proceed. 

Dr. Tramsen. The state of the body itself was in an extraordinary 
kind of decay. I would call it more or less mummified, and I may say 
that this has been caused by the immense pressure of the weight 
of hundreds of dead bodies and the tons of heavy sand over them. 

Mr. Flood. Then you had occasion to observe the nature, the 
texture, and the color of the soil? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Would you describe that? 

Dr. Tramsen. It was yellowish, more or less dry, very sandy soil, 
with a rather deep ground-water stand. We observed water only in 
that grave which v\ as lying lowest on the sloping hill. The yellow 
sand had some stripes of brownish color which might hold that lime 
was in the minerals in the ground, but I don't know much about that. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, you described in some detail the manner in 



1456 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

which the uniforms were upon the bodies as you observed them. 
Would you say from such observation, and from observations you 
have made in your medical experience of dead bodies containing 
clothing over a period of time, that these bodies had been buried in the 
uniforms as you saw the uniforms at the grave ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, it is beyond doubt that they were buried in the 
uniforms in which they were found. 

Mr. DoNDERO. I think you mean at the time they were buried and 
not the time you found them. 

Dr. Tramsen, I mean both. 

Mr. Flood. So do I. 

Doctor, you described in some detail the bodies as you saw them 
lying in the grave. Could you say from your observation of the 
bodies and the manner in which they were lying in the graves, that 
it indicated clearly a systematic arrangement of the bodies in the 



grave 



Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I can specially say that in some parts of the 
graves we found systematic order very clearly, especially along the 
sides and ends of the gi-aves, more. Less, I should say, in the center. 

Mr. Flood. Did you find or did you see any bodies in the graves or 
laid out when you were there that were not the bodies of Polish offi- 
cers? 

Dr. Tramsen. No, not in those seven tombs that were shown us by 
the Germans, but the Germans showed us some bodies that were ex- 
tracted from other tombs in the same wood, lying a bit apart from 
those same tombs. 

Mr. Flood. Did you find any bodies that from their insigna or dress 
or documentation or anything else would indicate that they were 
the bodies of clergymen ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I did. Yes, I saw at least three at the time I 
was there tliat were clergymen, carrying their black collar and the rose- 
buds and the cross as Catholic clergymen do. 

Mr. Flood. Would it be obvious to military people, or people who 
had associated with military people, that the markings of the black 
collar — the rosebuds and the cross — would indicate that the wearer 
would be a clergyman or a chaplain of some degree ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I well imagine that they were military clergy- 
men because they wore particularly uniforms and then these insignia 
I told you about. 

Mr. Flood. In the particular graves in question did you see or did 
you hear that a female body in military Polish uniform was un- 
earthed ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No, I have not. 

Mr. Flood, Was it brought to your attention that there were gold 
teeth or gold dentures in any of the bodies ? 

Dr. Tramsen. There were very few gold teeth found in those 
bodies we saw. 

Mr. Flood. There were some? 

Dr-. Tramsen. I have seen some, yes, 

Mr. Flood, In looking at any of the documents or diaries or papers 
of any nature that you observed on your body or saw as having been 
taken from any others, did you have occasion to observe the dates 
with any particularity? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1457 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I have got two papers extracted from dead 
bodies, not the one I just did a post-mortem on, but from two others, 
with dates on them. 

Mr. Flood. May I see those, please? 

Dr. Tramsen. The one is evidently a Polish poem and apparently 
is signed Kozielsk, the 26th of xVpril 1940. 

Mr. Flood. The stenogi'apher will mark these for identification as 
exhibits 66 and 67. 

(The documents referred to were marked "Frankfurt Exhibits 66 
and 67." 

(Note. — Subsequent examination of the two documents showed 
they were insufficiently legible for complete translation. Thus they 
are not included in this published report. The documents are in the 
committee's permanent file.) 

Dr. Tramsen. You asked me if I had some more documents with 
dates on. 

Mr. Flood. That is correct. 

Dr. Tramsen. Another officer, a Capt. Ludwig Gajenski, was 
found in one of these tombs, and one of the German scientists, Dr. 
Huber, who did a post-mortem on this man, found this list in his 
pocket. It is a roll call list of officers of a fifth company of some 
artillery regiment and signed "Kozielsk, 12 April 1940." It con- 
tains a list of some thirty officers with their birthdays and their 
military rank, and what is interesting is that some ten or eleven of 
the names have been crossed out. Whether this means anything or not, 
I am not able to say, but possibly a Polish officer will be able to de- 
cipher the numbers written underneath in various groups. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, I take for granted that these documents we 
are now discussing were taken by you from bodies at the graves or 
else were given to you by others who took them from the bodies at 
the graves, and have been in your custody until they have been pre- 
sented here this morning. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, that is so, and if not extracted by me, the others 
I did not extract, I saw being extracted. 

Mr. Flood. You saw them extracted yourself? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, so I can definitely state that they have been 
extracted from the bodies. 

Mr. Flood. The stenographer will mark this envelope for iden- 
tification as exhibit 68. 

(The envelope referred to was marked "Frankfurt exhibit No. 68" 
and placed in the committee files. A photograph is shown as follows :) 



1458 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 68 



• f< ^TTX^s^^-'-'x^ss'^ <■ •"■'—x'vys^tfsfs'ay ^ 



"^ 



Roll call list of ofQcers with notation "Kozielsk, 12 April 1940." 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1459 

Exhibit 68 — Continued 



Mr. Flood. Doctor, I show you an envelope marked for identifica- 
tion as exhibit 68 and ask you to examine it and tell us whether or not 
it contains the list of officers taken from the body as you just de- 
scribed it? 

Dr. Tramsen. It does. 

Chairman Madden. I think we should recess now. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Before the committee takes a recess, I would 
like to make a statement and I would like to have the interpreter take 
the statement and translate it into German. 

My attention has been called to the fact that the witness that pre- 
ceded Dr. Tramsen, namely. Hans Bless, before proceeding: to testify, 
took his oath in a form not in accordance with the rules of this com- 
mittee, and in such a manner, with gestures, as to raise the question 
as to its reliability. I, therefore, call the committee's attention to 
this matter and ask for a ruling as to the admissibility of his testimony 
and the weight to be given to it. 



1460 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Chairman Madden. In answer to Congressman Machrowicz' state- 
ment, the Chair wishes to announce that the witness, Hans Bless, was 
not sworn in conformance with the rules of the House of Representa- 
tives. 

The committee further states that, at its first meeting in Washington 
and on several occasions since, it has announced at its hearings that 
any witness or any government or any organization who possesses 
factual and pertinent information relating to the Katyn massacres 
is welcome to appear and testify before this committee. 

The committee will reserve its decision regarding the testimony of 
the witness Bless because of his nonconformance with the prescribed 
congressional oath. 

(The committee will reconvene at 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 40 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(The committee reconvened at 2 p. m.) 

Chairman Madden. The committee will come to order. 

All right, Dr. Tramsen. 

(Dr. Tramsen resumed the stand.) 

(Due to incorrect numbering, there is no exhibit 69.) 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, I understand that since the recess you have 
referred to your files and in addition to the photographs that were 
marked as exhibits this morning you have, now, three additional photo- 
graphs that you have selected from the many others you have in your 
possession as being especially pertinent. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. We will ask the stenographer to mark those, now, as 
exhibits 70, 71, and 72. 

marked "Frankfort Exhibits 
■) 



(The photographs referred to were 
Nos. 70, 71, and 72," as are shown below. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 70 



1461 





**<-«■: 





Skull of Polish oflBcer showing entrance hole of bullet. 



1462 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 71 





'^ •,J.,t3S(SS!S« 



111(1 on Katyn victims. 




THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 72 




1463 




Body of woman found in another mass grave, not with Polish officers. 



93744— 52— Rt. 5 16 



1464 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Now, I show the witness these exhibits marked 70, 71, 
and 72, photographs, and I ask you, witness, if you will identify them, 
please. 

Just take 70 and tell us what it is, and then 71, and so on. Take all 
three and tell us what they are. 

Dr. Tramsen. Number 70 is corresponding to the beginning of the 
medical examination of the dead body, and it shows the skull of a 
Polish officer. The soft tissues from the neck have been removed, 
and it is clearly to be seen in the picture that a pistol-shot wound in 
the occipital bone has entered the skull this way. You can see that, 
because the bones of the skull consist of an outer and an inner layer, 
between which you see, in the bone, small parts, and what is called 
cells. And a shot that enters the bone like that will make an absolutely 
round hole on the outside and a greater hole on the inside of the bone, 
and we have seen that in practically all of the skulls that were examined 
by cutting the bone through. That is all I want to say about this 
picture. 

Mr. Flood. While we are discussing that picture — I was going to 
take the details of the post-mortems later, all at one time, but since 
you have a picture, this last exhibit, which indicates the point of entry 
and the condition of the skull at the time you found it insofar as the 
bullet wound is concerned, I am going to ask you now to demonstrate 
on the interpreter the point of entry and the point of exit of the bullet 
on that skull and any others that you examined. 

Dr. Tkamsen. In the soft tissues in this area back of the neck [in- 
dicating]. 

Mr. Flood. The witness is pointing to the back of the neck at the 
base of the skull of the neckline. 

Now, Doctor, for the purpose of the record, and since this is a 
highly technical and a very scientific piece of testimony, I wish that 
you would forget that we are laymen, unless you have to translate 
later, and, as though you were addressing a collection of pathologists, 
will you describe, in technical, pathological terms, the analysis of the 
point of entry and the point of exit? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. In the soft tissues, in this area we always 
found a lot of marking of black gunpowder, which has more or less 
been pushed into the skin because the shot has been fired with the 
muzzle straight touching the, skin and pointed forward, upwards, 
with the exit of the gunshot near the right or left temple at the fore 
of the head [indicating]. 

Would you like any further demonstration of this? 

Mr. Flood. I would like you to indicate which is the occipital bone. 

Dr. Tramsen. The occipital bone is the bone going in this direc- 
tion [indicating] carrying forward on to the base of the skull sur- 
rounding the hole for the central nervous system. 

Mr. Flood. Now, you were indicating the point of entry in the 
nape of the neck into the bone structure of the occipital bone. Is 
there any other teclinical description you could give to that area which 
might be described as the foramen magnum ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

The exit of the bullet — would you like to hear anything about the 
exit of the bullet? 

Mr. Flood. Yes. Tell us technically the scientific description of 
the point of exit and the description of the area in" scientific terms, 
the physiological examination. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1465 

Dr. Tramsen. In practically all of the dead bodies we found 
ihe exit of the bone along the line of the hair border in the left or 
right temple, and only in one or two we saw the exit line lower, below 
the eye. 

Mr. Flood. Were there any skulls upon which there was more than 
one point of entry or exit? 

Dr. Tramsen. We saw one skull with two points of entry and exit. 

Mr. Flood. But in most cases, as I understand it, there was only 
one point of entry and one point of exit. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Did you open any of the skulls in your post-morterms 
for the purpose of examining the interior to determine the course 
of the bullet or the condition of the interior of the skull with reference 
to the course of the bullet? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I have done that myself in one case, this Cap- 
tain Szyminski that I told you about. 

Mr. Flood. Will you give us the results of your examination of 
the interior of the skull in the body you examined ? 

Dr. Tramsen. The direction of the bullet in that skull was such 
as it couldn't possibly have avoided a lesion, a serious lesion, of the 
bottom of the brain and the so-called medulla oblongata, the nerve 
center of respiration, with an absolutely deadly effect. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, you indicated to us earlier that you had been 
shown the remains of bodies in the area from older graves, which 
you described as older Russian graves. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Did you examine the skulls or see the skulls of any of 
those bodies found in the much older Russian graves in the imme- 
diate area of the Katyn grave? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat did you find ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; I have got a picture; exhibit 72. 

Mr. Flood, The witness now refers to exhibit No. 72. 

Dr. Tramsen. That is a picture of a dead body that I saw. The 
Germans dug it out of a tomb further into the wood. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did they dig it out in your presence? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. It is a body of a dead woman, and the head is 
covered with a sort of sacking, and the hands are tied on the back with 
a string carrying up around the neck. And the cause of death was 
the same, the shot through the neck and out through the temple. From 
the state of the dead body it could be concluded that it must have 
been lying in the ground pretty much longer than the dead bodies 
we saw in the Polish officers' tomb. 

Mr. Flood. There are two questions that I want to ask you in con- 
nection with this exhibit. 

First, does the point of entry and the point of exit and the course "* 
of the bullet indicated thereby found on the skull of this female body 
that you have just described in the exhibit — were they similar to the 
points of entry and exit and the course of the bullets found in the 
skulls in the Katyn graves ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, they were exactly similar. 

Mr. Flood, By "the Katyn graves" I mean the Katyn graves of the 
Polish officers. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, quite right. 



1466 THE KATYN FOREST IMASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. And secondly, in the graves containing the bodies of 
the Polish officers, did you find any bodies where the heads were 
covered with sacking or coating and tied with a rope around the neck, 
similar to the body you have just described in exhibit No. 72 as having 
come from an old Russian grave nearby 'i 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; I have not seen that. 

Mr. Flood. You have told us that many of the bodies of the Polish 
officers were found with their hands tied behind their backs, and you 
described them in a certain way. Were the hands of this female body 
that you describe in exhibit No. 72 tied in the same manner that the 
bodies of the Polish officers were tied in the graves at Katyn ? 

Dr. Tramsen, No, I have not seen them tied in that way, but, if I 
may refer to the picture exhibit 53, I will give you a description of 
how the hands, generally, were tied on the Polish officers. 

Mr. Flood. Will you demonstrate again upon the interpreter the 
manner in which you saw the hands tied on the bodies of the Polish 
officers ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. As you see on this picture, the hands were tied 
on the back with a tight loop of string on one wrist, carrying the 
strings over on the other wrist, around that one [indicating], and a 
loop around both hands, tied in a long tie with long loose encU. 
evidently giving a lot of rope for each. 

Mr. Flood. You mentioned that some of the hands were tied with 
wire. I suppose the hands were found in about the same position on 
the back of the body when tied with a wire ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, pretty well the same way. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, in your official and professional capacity as an 
expert and an experienced pathologist, did you ever have occasion 
to examine bodies where the cause of cleath had been bullet wounds 
or gunshot wounds ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, plenty. We had a lot of murder cases during 
the occupation in Denmark, and I did the post-mortems on pretty well 
all those murdered by gunshots or shots. 

Mr. Flood. From the nature and the condition of the gunshot 
wound, the kind of wound and its appearance upon the body, is it 
possible for an expert pathologist to determine whether or not that 
shot was proximate to the body? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, that is absolutely possible because you would not 
find a complete tattooing of the skin with the gunpowder unless the 
muzzle had been put absolutely close to or on the skin itself. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, in the body you examined, and in any examina- 
tion of other bodies that were at Katyn, but with particular reference 
to the one upon which you performed the post-mortem, would you be 
able to say, from the blasting of the skull, from the finding of the 
powder marks as you have described them, and from the course of 
the bullet, that this had been fired proximate to the skull? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I can ; because in many of the cases we observed 
a very big blast effect on the skull, in some cases, with long lines of 
fractures, and in a few cases with a complete loosening of the top of 
the skull, which could not have been done unless gunshot had been 
fired straight at the skull itself. 

Mr. Flood. For the reasons you have just given, in the language 
of a layman would you say that the shot fired into the skull of the 
body you examined, and of the others that you saw in the graves at 
Katyn, had been fired at a very close or a point-blank range ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1467 

Dr. Tramsen. There is no doubt that they have all been fired at 
point-blank range; all those I have seen, anyway. 

Mr. Flood. Now, is it possible for a pathologist of your experience 
and training, examining thousands of bodies containing gunshot 
wounds, as you have, keeping in mind the nature and the type of the 
wound and the similarity in all cases of the point of entry and the 
point of exit and the course of the projectile — is it possible for a 
pathologist, under those circumstances, to say whether or not those 
shots had been fired by a practiced hand or hands? 

Dr. Tramsen. No, I wouldn't say that, because you need not have 
much practice for doing that sort of thing. 

Mr. Flood. Did you make any examination with calipers or any 
other instrument as to the diameter of the wound so that you might 
be able to tell the caliber of the projectile ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; we have, and I have, too. We could say that 
tlie entry wound in the skull is a pretty good picture of the caliber 
of the bullet. And, furthermore, we found, in one of the dead bodies, 
a bullet in the front part of the skull. This is what I can show you on 
tlie picture, Exhibit 52. I saw this picture being taken in Katyn, and 
it shows a bullet clearly lying in the exit wound of the skull, and all 
of our examinations prove that they must have been shots fired with 
bullets of a caliber 8 millimeter. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know enough about the science of ballistics, or 
are you acquainted with pistol ammunition sufficiently well to be able 
to say if that would resemble what ammunition people call a 7.65? 

Dr. Tramsen. Just a moment, please, and I will tell you. 

Yes; I think it is quite true that it might have been a caliber 7.65. 
Anyway, as we put it in the protocol, below 8 millimeter. 

^Ir. Flood. Did you see the bullet you just described, that was em- 
bedded in that skull, after it was extracted ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; I saw it, but I did not measure that myself, 
and it looked exactly like an ordinary pistol bullet. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see, wlien you were at Katyn, or was there 
shown to you in the graves, or described as having been taken from 
the graves, the shell cases of any of the ammunition supposed to have 
been used there? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I have seen them, but T cannot recall very much 
about them. There were many of them among the dead bodies in the 
tomb. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear them described, when you were there, 
as cartridge cases of German-make ammunition? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I have. Germans themselves told me they were 
of German origin, but, at the same time, they stated that a lot of 
ammunition for pistols and other hand weapons had been delivered 
to Russia before Russia entered the war. 

Mr. Flood. But the fact remains that you were shown, at the Katyn 
graves, cartridge shells said to have been taken from the graves; you 
were shown these shells by Germans who told you two things, first, 
that the cartridge shells found by the graves were ammunition, pistol 
ammunition, of German manufacture, but that, frequently, that cali- 
ber of ammunition had been sold to Russians and others? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Flood. Now, Doctor, did you notice personally, or were you 
advised by any of your other brother scientists, whether or not there 



1468 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

were any other wounds on any of these bodies other than pistol 
wounds ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. We saw several bodies with typical wounds 
of bayonets in their backs, of a special square kind. 

]SIr. Flood. Did you examine the point of entry of the bayonet 
wound ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Would you say it could have been triangular or square ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I saw several that could be doubtful, but I saw, any- 
way, at least one that definitely was of a square kind. 

Mr. Flood. Ai'e you in a position to express any opinion as to the 
type of bayonet used by the Russian armed services about that time? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; I did not know at that time, but I had later been 
told that the Russians used those of a square type. 

Mr. Flood. Would that same statement be true, as far as you knew or 
have heard since, with reference to the type of bayonet used by the 
Russian armed services in 1940? 

Dr. Tramsen. It is possible ; I do not know. 

Mr. Flood. How many bodies were post mortems performed upon 
b}^ your group of scientists, about ? 

Dr. Tramsen. We did nine total post mortems, examining the whole 
body and organs and all signs of lesions and diseases. 

Mr. Flood. Now, after all of these bodies, the nine of them, upon 
which the dissections were made by you and your colleagues, you told 
us that you were permitted to select any body you wished. Was the 
same true of your colleagues ; if you know ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; they were completely free to choose. 

Mr. Flood. Now, I want to return to the examination of skulls for 
a minute and ask you whether or not any matter was brought to your 
attention by any of your colleagues, having particular reference to the 
internal examination of the skulls. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. We examined several of the insides of the 
skulls which were brought to Smolensk from the tombs after the post 
mortems, and Professor Orsos of Budapest, who is a specialist in do- 
ing post mortems in regard to deciding tlie time of death, had in- 
structed us as- to a new manner of examining the inside of a skull which 
has been interred for a long time. I had read about this method but 
had never practiced it before. 

Mr. Flood. Was this method important for the purpose of estab- 
lishing the time of death of the corpse ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; to a certain extent. 

Mr. Flood. Will you just indicate to us what the method was, with 
particular reference to the brain pulp or calcium formations? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. If a skull is loft in the ground for a certain 
time, at least for 2 years, the pulp of the brain will sort of lay down 
in a compact mass at the lowest part of the skull, and if you cut the 
skull through, with the lowest part still lying low, then you will cut 
through this pulp of (he brain lying at the bottom of the skull and 
notice certain layers of grayish and yellowisli stripes formed by the 
various chemical parts of the brain, the liquids and the phosphor acids 
and salts of various kinds, laying down in a special layer that you 
can notice. But, as ]?i-ofessor Orsos has stated, this will not take 
place unless the skull has been lying in the same position for at least 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1469 

2 years, and we had noticed that symptom in several of the skulls 
that were cut through. 

Mr. Flood. So that, could any of the substance that you have 
described as being present in the brain under those circumstances be 
described as a calcium type of formation of some nature? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I think so. 

Do you mean a calcification in the brain pulp could have developed 
in a couple of years ? 

Mr. Flood. That is correct. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, it can ; and we saw that, too. 

Mr. Flood. Could you say that the brain pulp remaining in that 
part of the skull after such a lengthy burial could be described as 
being of a claylike nature or a cla^dike state ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. It was like rather heavily compressed clay. 

Mr. Flood. Did you observe, or were any observations made by 
your brother scientists, or others, in your presence, with reference to 
the presence of or the lack of insects in the graves ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. We had particularly been looking out for 
insects, eggs, mites, and ants, but we found nothing of that kind. 

Mr. Flood. Could it be reasonably concluded, based upon that find- 
ing, that the bodies were buried at a time of the year which would be 
insect-free or perhaps cold ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, indeed. And it corresponds very well to the 
observation that the lack of original decay was obvious, particularly 
when you take into notice the climate of that part of Russia, which is 
very hot in summertime and very cold in wintertime. 

Mr. Flood. Did you examine, did you see, or was it brought to your 
attention at the time you were at Katyn, that any of the skulls oa* 
bodies had indications of a ricochet shot thereon ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; I do not recall that. 

Mr. Flood. The type of wound that perhaps might indicate that 
shot had been fired at such a body, ricocheted therefrom or there- 
through, and struck another body, which may have been lying nearby? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; that I remember. 

In one case we found a bullet sitting, so far as I remember, in the 
shoulder muscles of one of the bodies in the tomb, and this bullet 
had penetrated so slowly and so little in the body that it could not 
have been fired pointblank, or must have penetrated something else 
before, in any case. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, it has been indicated to the committee by a 
number of witnesses of various kinds that trees of a certain height 
had been planted in the area, had been seen in the area, and had 
been removed from the grave just immediately prior to the grave 
being opened, of these Polish officers at Katyn. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I remember seeing quite a lot of lines of young 
fir trees about the height of one-and-a-half foot, and I saw them 
stretching out from the graves because they had been removed when 
those graves had been opened possibly. 

Mr. Flood. Were any observations made or comments made by your 
colleagues or others there at the time with reference to those trees, 
anything of any special significance, that you recall? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. But I do not understand much of forestry, and 
I have no special knowledge about. But the Germans produced a 
German specialist, a forester, who showed us these trees in cuts. 



1470 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember the name of the German forester? 

Dr. Tkamsen. Hafferer, or something like that. I don't quite re- 
member the name, I am sorry. 

Mr. Flood. If you heard the name, do you think you would recog- 
nize it? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; I think so. 

Mr. Flood. Could it have been Von Herff ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; that is it. 

Mr. Flood. What did von Herff say or do when you were there? 

Dr. Tramsen. I cannot exactly remember that von Herff demon- 
strated the trees himself, but I can remember that Professor Buhtz 
gave a conclusion that the German forester had put up and stated 
on the examination of these trees. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall the nature of Dr. Buhtz's observations 
about the trees? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. And it was clearly demonstrated under micro- 
scope that the growth rings of these trees had some sort of arrest, 
had a special place, which could be assembled from one cut to the 
other. 

Mr. Flood. How many graves, if you know, were opened at the time 
you were at Katyn, about? 

Dr. Tramsen. Seven graves, with Polish officers. 

Mr. Flood. You do not include the other so-called older Russian 
graves ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. Flood. You gave us some details with reference to certain 
types and kinds of documents, doctor. Did you observe, for any 
reason, any particular date which could be called the latest date, 
that you know ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. We saw Russian papers elated as late as the 
20th of April 1940. 

Mr. Flood. By Russian "papers" I presume you mean Russian 
newspapers. 

Dr. Tramsen. That is right. 

And I remember having been shown a diary from one of the 
Polish officers showing a date as late as the 21st of April, and that 
was the very last date we could find on any of the papers or books 
or diaries found in these graves. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Maclirowicz. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Mr. Chairman, in connection with the state- 
ment which I made to tlie committee just before adjournment, I have 
since that time been informed that the particular witness in ques- 
tion, namely, Hans Bless, has prepared a written statement which 
he wishes to present to the committee. I understand he may not be 
available later. I would like to ask the indulgence of the present 
witness if we could interrupt for a few minutes to take advantage 
of his presence. 

I would like to ask the chairman that, in all fairness to him and 
in order to complete our record, he be permitted to present to the 
committee the statement which he has prepared. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1471 

FUETHER TESTIMONY OF HANS BLESS, STEINHEIM, WESTPHALIA, 
GEEMANY (THEOUGH INTEEPEETEE VON HAHN) 

Mr. Machrowicz. Mr. Bless, do you have a statement you wish to 
present to the committee? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, I have. I have made a declaration in writing, which 
I would like to submit to the committee. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Has anyone requested you for that declaration? 

Mr. Bless. No. I left immediately after I had testified ; I left this 
building and went away on my own. I also had dinner on my own 
and went back to the hotel, from where I was taken here by car. 
But I have not been put under any pressure or no influence has been 
exerted on me in connection with this statement. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that the letter 
be given to the interpreter and the interpreter can read it in the 
German language and translate it into English. 

Mr. Bless. I believe that my handwriting is not too good and I 
suggest that I read the German text : 

To the congressional committee investigating the Katyn murders, 
in Frankfurt : 

Subject : Declaration. 

I regret very much that the committee took exception to the man- 
ner in which I gave my oath. Furthermore, as viewed from my side, 
I had not even thought about the manner in which this oath would 
have to be delivered. I immediately asked the interpreter what was 
going on when a certain unrest started among the audience. I did 
not understand why this happened. 

I expressly wish to state that no political idea or the demonstration 
of any kind whatsoever was behind the manner in which I delivered 
my oath. It is the same way in which I always give my oath before 
German courts in criminal and civil cases, whereby, up to this day, no 
political question or controversy needed to be clarified. My attitude 
was never taken exception to. 

This incident could, however, have been cleared at once if my at- 
tention had been drawn to it; whereupon, I would have acted in ac- 
cordance with how I was expected to act. 

The credibility of my statements may be substantiated from the fact 
that I declare that I was never a Member of the National Socialist 
Party, of the Communist Party, or of any of their affiliate associations. 
Should the manner in which I gave my oath be regarded as a Hitler 
or Nazi salute, I wish to state that I never gave the form of salute 
which was customary in the Third Reich with a tightly outstretched 
arm but with an arm held at an angle. 

I put myself fully at your disposal for clearing up this matter and 
I would be grateful to you if you would make a statement to me. 

Chairman Madden. I will say, Mr. Bless, that the committee is 
glad to receive your letter on this matter and that we will place your 
letter into the record. The committee wishes to emphasize that, in 
so doing, we do not recognize any political beliefs or countenance 
any political ideologies whatsoever that might be indicated by any 
overt action on the part of anybody rendering testimony. 



1472 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

So your letter is in the record and we are glad to have your explana- 
tion. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Flood. Will you have the stenographer mark this envelope as 
"Exhibit No. 73"? 

(The envelope referred to was marked for identification as "Ex- 
hibit 73.") 

Mr. Flood. I show the witness exhibit No. 73 and ask him if that is 
in his handwriting ? 

Mr. Bless. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Is that the statement you just read, in the envelope? 

Mr. Bless. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Flood. We offer that in evidence. 

Chairman Madden. Thank you, Mr. Bless. 

(Exhibit 73 is a photograph of the letter which is in the committee 
files and is shown as follows :) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1473 



Exhibit 73 

frankfurt am main 

Teleton-SammelQutmper Stadt 40451 Auswirte 94141 und 94341 Telegr.-Adr Frajtkhol FranWurlmain 
Femsdifeiber : 04 - 1443 

(Hu ll^nii^ i^^^ 4Ut iit4. la ^€4. 

AU6^^ 4yJ4^ .^l!/^ dZt ^ /44^ d/Aff^Y 



Hotel aX. niot Absender 



/t) /// SPIELBANK WIESBADEN ^ 
taglidi ab 15 Uhr • IM FOYER DER STAATSOPER OSc 
iklurt M. Hbf., Sudseite. Savoy-Holel: 1-1.45, 17.45. JO. 15. 221.10, I 

Letter from Mr. Bless to Katyn committee. 



"iaccara 

OMNlPfSVERKEHR : Ab Frankfurt .M. Hbf., Sudseite. Savoy-Hotel: 14.45, 17.45, 20.15. 22.00, 1 .00 L'hr • TELBFON 2 76 85 



1474 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Exhibit 73 — Continued 



Letter from Mr. Bless to Katyn committee. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1475 

Exhibit 73 — Continued 




TESTIMONY OF DR. HELGE TRAMSEN— Resumed 

Mr. Flood. Dr. Tramsen, will you return to the stand, please? 

Doctor, did you ever talk to any Russian peasants who lived in the 
area of the Katyn graves at any time you were there? 

Dr. Tramsen. No, I have not done that personally as I don't speak 
Russian. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see any of your colleagues, or were you with 
them at the time any of them, in your presence, spoke to any Russians 
in the area? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. In the afternoon on the very first day, Profes- 
sor Orsos spoke to three Russian civilians, and the talk was translated 
by interpreters into German. 

Mr. Flood. What was the nature or the gist of the conversation, if 
you recall ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Professor Orsos asked these Russians whether they 
had seen, in 1940, Polish prisoners of Avar being carried from Gniez- 
dowo railway station to the Katyn wood, and at the same time, they 
told that they had heard a lot of shooting in the early morning hours 
in the Katyn wood area, but that the wood had been guarded by Rus- 
sians for a long time and no civilians had been allowed into that spe- 
cial area. 

And that is what I remember of these talks with the Russians. 



1476 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, we would just like one more scientific and pro- 
fessional opinion with reference to the degree of decomposition of any 
of the bodies yon observed individually or a mass condition of decom- 
position with reference of one body to another in such a mass, as to 
coagulation and congealing. 

Dr. Tramsen. I am sorry to say I have not got much experience ac- 
cording to mass graves, but from what I have been told and what I 
have read about before, the bodies interred in such graves must have 
been left there for a considerable time to be compressed and congealed 
in such a manner as they were here. 

Mr. Flood. Would these circumstances and degrees of decomposition 
that you have just mentioned permit the conclusion of a contempo- 
raneous burial, all at one time ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. They were all decayed and compressed to such 
a degree and in the same manner that one could conclude that they 
must have been buried pretty well at the same time. 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember a member of the International ]\Iedi- 
cal Commission, a colleague of yours, from Bulgaria, one Dr. JSIarkov ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember whether or not Dr. Markov expressed 
any opinions with reference to who might have been responsible for 
these murders ; what country, what people ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I spoke quite a lot to Dr. Markov in Smolensk 
and later in Berlin, and I am of the absolutely complete idea that he 
meant the Russians had done these murders. And so far as I remem- 
ber, he said it directly at several occasions. 

Mr. Flood. You have no doubt about that. Doctor? 

Dr. Tramsen. That is quite correct. 

Mr. Flood. Did Dr. Markov, to you or to anyone in your presence, 
then indicate that he was under any kind of duress or compulsion 
or threat from the Germans because of his position on this commission 
with you ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; not at all. 

Mr. Flood. You are aware, are you, that Dr. Markov has subse- 
quently recanted his signature of this international medical protocol 
and states that he was forced by tlie Germans to participate and 
to sign ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; I have been told that. But at the final meeting 
in Smolensk, nevertheless, Dr. Markov signed, as you see his personal 
signature here, the protocol that we concluded in stating that the 
shooting of the Polish officers must have taken place in the months 
of March and April of 1940. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, were you placed mider any duress, direct or 
indirect, at that time by the Germans or by your own Danish Gov- 
ernment and forced, against your will or with promise of advantage 
or gratuity, to participate in this investigation? 

Dr. Tramsen. No; I did not. I took part in the commission on 
my own free will and have never been under any stress during those 
days by the Germans, the Danish Government, or any other autliority. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have the full cooperation of the German author- 
ities during your scientific examinations of these bodies at Kat3'n? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I had the absolutely free allowance to move 
about, take pictures with my own cnniera, and was assisted by the 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1477 

Germans in any way during my scientific examinations and autopsies 
of the bodies. 

Mr. Flood. Were you prevented by the Germans at any time from 
doing any particular tiling you wanted to do ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; not at all. 

Mr. Flood. As far as you know, was the same cooperation extended 
to your brother scientists on this commission ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. They were all given the same facilities. 

Mr. Flood. Have you been placed under any duress, or have you 
been the recipient of any promise by your Danish Government today, 
or by the West German Government, or by the Government of the 
United States, or anybody else, to appear here today ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. I did that on my own free will. 

Mr. Flood. From your examination, made as you have described in 
this length and detail, of the bodies in the graves at Katyn, is it possi- 
ble for you to reach a conclusion as to the cause of death ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. In all the cases I saw, which amounted up to 
nearly 800, it was undoubtedly, in every case, a rank murder and 
could not have been suicide or any other way of cause of death. 

Mr. Flood. What was the nature of the instrument used in the 
murder, and what was the direct cause of death ? 

Dr. Tramsen. The way of murder was done by shots with pistols, 
at pointblank, and the cause of death was mortal lesions of the brain 
and the main nerve, consisting of the nerve centers for the respiration 
and circulation. 

Mr. Flood . Is it possible, from the testimony you have given and 
from your experiences at Katyn, to approximate the date of death and 
the date of burial of the bodies you saw there ? 

Dr. Tramsen. From a medical point of view, that will be very 
difficult, but from the examinations of the decaying of the dead bodies, 
it can be concluded. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat is your conclusion ? 

Dr. Tramsen. First, that the murders and the burial must have taken 
j)lace in a cold time of the year, in the winter or early spring, and, 
second, that the dead bodies must have been buried in these graves for 
at least 2 years, possibly anything up to 5 or 10 years. 

Mr. Flood. Would it have been possible, for those reasons, under 
your conclusions, for those bodies to have been buried in March or 
April of 1940? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; that is possible. 

Mr. Flood. We offer in evidence all exhibits now up to and including 
No. 73. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Dondero. 

Mr. Dondero. Doctor, I have just one question. 

You have told this committee that you examined the cord or rope 
with which the hands of these men were bound. Was that cord or rope 
flat or round ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I think it was a round woven cord, made of rather 
whitish sort of cotton thread. 

Mr. Dondero. Did you make a personal examination of it, or just a 
casual examination of the cord ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I have examined one of them very closely and brought 
one with me back to Denmark, and I have previously, about a j^ear ago. 



1478 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

put it at the disposal of the committee by Mr. Arthur Bliss Lane, who 
took it back with him to the United States. 

Mr, DoNDERo. Would it be possible that it was flat, like a shoestring ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I can't remember. 

Mr. Mitchell. I would like to have the record show that Mr. Arthur 
Bliss Lane has offered that rope to this committee. 

Mr. DoNDERo. Arthur Bliss Lane was either at that time or later the 
Ambassador from the United States to Poland ; is that correct ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, that is correct ; not a year ago but further back, 
about 3 years ago I think he was. 

Mr. DoNDERo. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. O'Konski. 

Mr. O'Konski, Doctor, have you been aware of or have you read 
the report of the Russian medical commission that made a report in 
January of 1944? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I have. 

Mr. O'Konski. I would like to pick out some of the statements in 
that report and would like to have your comment on them, if possible. 

One of the statements in their report is as follows : that only 20 
out of 925 bodies had their hands tied behind their backs — speaking 
of the bodies that they dug up from the graves. 

Does that square with the facts that you saw? That is only one 
out of every 50 bodies that had their hands tied behind their backs. 

Dr. Tramsen, No ; that is definitely incorrect. 

Mr. O'Konski. They make much of the fact, in their report, that 
only 20, or about one out of every 50 bodies, had their hands tied 
behind their backs. That is incorrect, is it, according to your obser- 
vation ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I saw only a few that were not tied. 

Mr. O'Konski. Another statement that they make much of in their 
report is as follows : 

In 1943, the Germans made an extremely small number of post-mortem ex- 
aminations. 

Does that square with the facts ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

You see, at that time the German commission had already done a lot 
of post mortems, and about 800 identifications, and we checked these 
identifications and raised the post mortems with another nine, with a 
total autopsy of the bodies. 

]Mr. O'Konski, Another part of their report states that although, 
in the post mortems, the coats and the shoes were cut for the removal 
of documents, after they dug up the bodies they still found many 
documents on the bodies. 

Is that ver> likely to have happened? 

Dr. Tramsen. Which dead bodies are those the Russians are speak- 
ing about ; those the Germans had already examined ? 

Mr, O'Konski. The same bodies, 

Dr, Tramsen, So far as I could see, the examination of the dead 
bodies was very thorough, and all papers and identification marks 
were removed from the dead bodies and checked in the German reports. 

Mr. O'Konski. Another part of their repoi-t states that in spite 
of the search by the Germans for documents, they still left, on some 
of the bodies, the same bodies, some documents, including diaries. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1479 

Is there any likelihood that your commission or the Germans would 
have buried back any diaries with those bodies ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. I think that is very unlikely because the Ger- 
man examination was very thorough and they w^ere particularly 
interested in diaries that could give personal reports from the prisoners 
of where they had been captured and in which camp they had stayed 
and what had happened to them altogether. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. When it comes to the cause of death, the shooting, 
the Russian report and your report are almost identical; the only 
other part where they disagree with your rejjort is the extent of 
decay. And this Russian medical commission claims that the deaths 
were sometime in the early fall of 1941. Is that possible ? 

Dr. Tramsen. From a medical point of view, I wouldn't say it 
would be impossible. As I tell you, we could reckon that the dead 
bodies must have been in there 2 years, for at least 2 years. That 
makes exactly 2 years, at the spring of 1941. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. They claim it was the fall of 1941. 

Dr. Tramsen. I should hardly think so, because it is not anywhere 
close to what could have been possible. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Doctor, before the war, in your study of pathology, 
you had an opportunity to become acquainted or have heard or read 
of almost every expert on pathology in Europe, have you not? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; if I may say so. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. These medical men that you attended this exhuma- 
tion with at Katyn, you had heard most of those names as being 
experts before you got over there, did you not ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I knew a few of them personally before. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did you ever hear or become acquainted with in 
reading, writing, mail, or personal contact or conversations, or did 
you have occasion to meet any Russian experts on pathology? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. You never had ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; I never had. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. You never heard of the name of V. I. Prozorlobsky 
as being an expert on pathology ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. O'KoNRKi. Did you ever hear of the name of V. M. Smolyanobov 
as being an expert on pathology ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. OTvoNSKi. Did you ever hear of the name of D. N. Vyropaybe 
as being an expert on pathology ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did you ever hear of the name of P. S. Smemevosky 
as being an expert on ])athology ? 

Dr. Tra::msen. No ; I did not. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Or did you ever hear of the name of M. D. Shviakova 
as being an expert on pathology ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; I did not. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. In other words, Doctor, those names are all strange 
to you, are they not? 

Dr. Tramsen. They are all strange to me. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Together with Dr. Markov, do you remember a Dr. 
Hajek of Czechoslovakia who was with you on the coixmiission ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

93744— 52— pt. 5 17 



1480 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. In your conferences and meetinos wdth Dr. Hajek 
of Czechoslovakia, what was liis reaction to tlie cause of tlie crime 
at Katyn and wlien it was committed ? 

Di'. Tramsex. Pi-ofessor Hajek Avas a professor of legal medicine 
in Prague and he did a post mortem himself and took part in the 
committee's meetings, and he was of absolutely the same idea as the 
other members and signed the protocol personally with the same im- 
pression that the murder has been done by the Russians as stated in 
the protocol. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Have you heard ruipors that he has also recanted 
the signing of that? 

Dr. Tramsen. That I know. I was told that last night and I have 
heard and read in the papers pi'eviously that he has taken back his 
statement and given a completely other idea al)out the whole Katyn 
affair. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did that news surprise you, after talking to him 
as you did at this investigation at Katj'u ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; it certainly has astonished me. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. It is interesting to note from the signing of that 
protocol, iust from the standpoint of chronology, that both Dr. Mar- 
kov and Dr. Hajek signed the protocol before von did. Therefore, if 
they did it under duress, it seems strange because they signed it before 
you did. You were among the last to sign the piotocol. 

Dr. Tramsex. I was not quite aware of tluit because I think we 
signed it all pretty well at the same time. So far as I remember, 
we were produced a copy of the protocol that evening we finished 
our meeting in Smolensk and we signed it ilien and, on our way 
back to Berlin and the landing at Bialistok, were produced a copy 
each to si<Ti:n for each other. 

INIr. OKoNSKi. In other words. Doctor, the o])iuion among the 12 
of you medical ex])erts was such that it made no difTei'ence who signed 
it first? You Avere all unanimously agreed, willingly, without duress? 

Dr. Tr,\msex. Yes. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. That's all. 

Mr. DoxDERO. Dr. Tramsen, who prepared the protocol? 

Dr. Tramsen. We had a meeting in Smolensk, which was led by 
Professor Buhtz, the German, and the written way of the conclusions 
was suggested by Professor Orsos, and corrected or edited by all of us 
giving our statement each. So Ave had written down, all of us, in our 
own writing, the copy of the conclusions and it was latei- copied bv the 
Germans so we could see that it Avas correctly Avritten before the signa- 
ture was made. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Doctor, prior to your designation to this com- 
mittee, were you an active member of any political party or an active 
supporter of any yiolitical ideologA^ in Deiunark or otitside TViuuark? 

Di". Tramsex. Well, I must confess that T had my oavu political ideas, 
but it Avas in neither one (direction nor the other. It Avas only anti- 
German because Ave had a German occupation, and at the time Avheu 
I took part in this committee, I had been a member of the Danisli rr- 
sistance moA^ement for about 1 year. 

Mr. Machroavtcz. So then, there Avas nothing in your past activities 
or any political statements which Avould indicate at the time of your 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1481 

appointment any particular sympathies toward the German cause, 
is that correct ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. I should rather say the opposite. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Before you accepted your appointment on this 
committee, did you converse with anyone else in Denmark other than 
those people whom you have already testified to ? 

Dr. Tra^isex. Yes; I did. I made contact with two of the best men 
ill the Danish resistance movement and put the case in front of them 
and they suggested that I should go because it would be of general 
interest to know what had taken place in Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Anyone besides those ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No, but I may add that to prove that I did not have 
any special German sympathies, I continued my work in the Danish 
resistance movement after I came back and was taken prisoner by the 
German Gestapo and held for 1 year in a concentration camp — the last 
year of the war. 

Mr. Machrowicz. All right now, you arrived in Berlin, as you testi- 
fied. Whom did you see in Berlin in connection with your mission? 

Dr. Tramsen. As I may show you on this photograph, the commis- 
sion took part in a meeting with the German Reichsgesundheitsamt 
Fuehrer Dr. Conte in his office, and here the protocol was handed over 
to Dr. Conte by the joint committee and Professor Orsos in person. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did all the members of the committee participate 
in that meeting? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; all the members took part in that meeting. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was there anything said or done at that meeting 
which you could interpret as an attempt to influence, advise you, or 
compel you to do anything against your own wish ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No; not at all. The meeting took place under very 
friendh^ forms and the committee just handed over the protocol to 
Dr. Conte who thanked us for the work and nothing else. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you see anyone else in Berlin in connection 
with your mission ? 

Dr. Tr.\msen. Only scientific people. We visited the University of 
Berlin Forensic Medical Institute and met a lot of German doctors and 
specialists, but w^e did not have any official meeting anywhere else in 
Berlin. 

Mr. ]\Iacheowicz. After you arrived in Smolensk, were you then 
met l)y anyone and given any instructions or warnings of any kind 
which might be considered by you as any undue pressure upon you? 

Dr. Tramsen. No; we were met at the airport with quite a lot of 
high German officers. General Holm and Professor Buhtz, and a lot 
of German military doctors, and at the first meeting they stated we 
could move about freely and do all examinations we wanted to do in 
the Katyn area freely. They just did advise us not to w'alk around 
very much alone in the town of Smolensk, which we didn't feel very 
much like doing either. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were those orders ever changed ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you receive any compensation or reward of 
any kind, monetary or otherwise, for your services in connection 
with this matter. 

Dr. Tramsen. No; I did not. 



1482 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr, Machrowicz. Have you read Dr. Hajek's complete statement of 
March 10, 1952, as reported by the Tass Soviet Agency? 

Dr. Tkamsen. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In that statement, he claims that most of the 
members of your committee were not well conversant with the 
German language and, therefore, could not understand what they 
signed. Can you comment on that statement ? 

Dr. Tramsen. I know only one of the so-called members that did 
not speak German very well. That was a Frechman and he didn't 
take part in the committee's meetings nor the signature of the protocol. 

Mr. Machrowicz. He was not a member of the committee, was he? 

Dr. Tramsen. He was not an actual member. He was only, as the 
Germans said, a Voelkischer Beobachter. 

Chairman Madden. What was he in English ? 

Dr. Tramsen. He was a psychologist. 

Chairman JNIadden. No, this remark that they made. 

Dr. Tramsen. That is a German joke because Voelkischer Beobach- 
ter is the name of an official Nazi paper and means public observer. 

Mr. Machrowicz. He states also that he was forced under duress to 
accept this assignment and was told that he might be placed in 
jail unless he accepted it. Was there anything that he said to you or 
to anyone else that indicated that was true ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No; not at all. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you have occasion to have conversations 
with Dr. Hajek? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, I had. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And were those conversations just the two of you 
or were there others present? 

Dr. Tramsen. On several occasions I spoke to him personally, one to 
the other, because I was interested to know the conditions in Prague 
in the university at that time. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he ever give you that impression as now made 
in his statement? 

Dr. Tramsen. No ; certainly not. 

Mr. Machrowicz. He states further that the first thing that struck 
him after he arrived at the scene was the fact that it all appeared as 
a prearranged affair. 

Dr. Tramsen. It must have been a mighty big arrangement any- 
way. I never saw anything like that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. He states further that on the basis of his observa- 
tions "and the work done by me upon several bodies, I immediately, 
with all positiveness, confirmed the fact that these bodies could not 
have been there 3 years, as the Hitlerites claimed, but only a short 
time — not more than 1 year." Now, did he ever make that state- 
ment to you ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. I do not know anything at all about that and 
he stated quite another thing when he signed the protocol himself and 
he took part in the discussion in the committee that last evening in 
Smolensk, and he totally agreed with us that the bodies must have been 
in these graves for at least 2 years — possibly longer. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, he stated further that he found in mnnV' 
instances the fingers, the nose, the li])s, and even the skin, in a good 
state of preservation which would indicate that the bodies could not 
have been there 3 years. What did he say about that? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1483 

Dr. Tramsen. I must say tliat there was a certain decay of the dead 
bodies, inckiding skin, noses, and lips, and this decay was particularly 
developed in those bodies lying at the outside of the graves, while 
those bodies lying in the midst of the heap were very well preserved. 
As you could think when there would be no bacteriological decay be- 
cause of the weight of the dead bodies, the pressure, and the weight 
of the tons of sand again, which has worked tlie whole thing out like 
pressed meat, with no air and no opportunity for the bacteria to work 
and accomplish the decay on noses, lips, and fingers. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he ever indicate to you or to anyone else 
in your presence that those factors I have just mentioned were indica- 
tive of the fact that the bodies were not there as long as claimed in 
your report ? 

Dr. Tramsen. No. We were all of the same opinion that the dead 
bodies must have remained in the graves for at least 2 years. 

Mr. Machkowicz. He points also in his statement to the fact that 
the buttons and other brass items on uniforms did not show sufficient 
rust to indicate that the bodies had been in those graves the period 
of time your report claims they were. Do you remember that factor? 

Dr. Tramsen. The buttons and the insignia on the uniform caps 
and various other metal parts were, for the greater extent, in a good 
condition. They were made of pewter or almninum, which, as far as 
I know, do not get rusty. 

Mr. Machrowicz. He states further that in some cases he found 
tobacco which was still of its natural color and had not lost its odor, 
which indicated it could not have been there long. Was your atten- 
tion called to any such instance? 

Dr. Tramsen. A¥ell, I have seen several tobacco purses and pipes, 
and even purses with cigarette paper and cigarette tobacco, but this 
tobacco was mainly in a bad state — brownish and of a very bad smell. 
I wouldn't like to smoke it, anyway. 

Mr. Macheowicz. Now, he says further that one of the matters that 
struck him immediately was the fact that the bayonet wounds were 
not as deep as they would have been if Russian bayonets had been used 
because Russian bayonets were sharper and longer. Now, has that 
been brought to your attention, or did you notice anything about 
that? 

Dr. Tramsen. I can only remember one case during the autopsies 
where a bayonet wound was really made clear, and that was a rather 
longish wound, as I told before, square in the outline and going under 
the right shoulder, right deep through the lung. If that is possible 
for a Russian or any other bayonet, I shall not be able to tell the 
difference there, but it was, anyway, a rather deep bayonet wound. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I might say that in his statement he does concede 
that the former Russian bayonets were four-cornered and would pro- 
duce a square opening. Is that the kind of opening you saw? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. 

]Mr. Machrowicz. Now, in all your time with Dr. Hajek, do you 
remember him at any one single instance calling to your attention or 
to the attention of the other members of the committee in your pres- 
ence these facts which I have now outlined and which he includes 
in his statement? 

Dr. Tramsen. No; I have not heard Professor Hajek at Smolensk 
give any evidence in that line he has just done lately. 



1484 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

jNIr. Machrowicz, That's all. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Dr. Tramsen, when you ojot back from this trip 
yon were dele<»;ated to ^o on to Katyn, were you approached by the 
then German Government to enlist with them in some lecture tour 
or propao;anda tour? Would you care to make any comment on 
that, if that happened ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I was called to meet the German High Com- 
missioner in Denmark, Dr. Best, who very strongly put it to me that 
it Avas necessary that I spread the details about these observations 
among the Danish population. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. Die! tliese officials of the then German Government 
offer you any remuneration if you would participate in any such 
political activity? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes; they did. Not the official German Govern- 
ment, but at that time in Copenhagen the Main Institution for Ger- 
man Culture. They offered me rather a big reward for going about 
making lessons and demonstrations about the observations in Katyn. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Would you care to mention to this committee the 
extent of the remuneration that was offered and the other enticement 
that was given — roughly ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. Quite a good offer in money, extending to — 
well, I may say, about $50 for each lesson. 

Mr. O'Konski. Well, in every instance, you refused to participate 
in that type of propaganda activity or political activity after you 
returned from Katyn ? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes. I did not make any public or any other state- 
ment about my observations although I was very well attacked by a 
lot of reporters. This is the first time I give a public statement on 
my observations on my Katyn travel for this committee now today. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Doctor, one more question : 

Do you think you might have been spared 1 year in a German con- 
centration camp if you had participated in accepting the offer which 
they made to you ? 

i)r. Tramsen. No; but I am sure I had a very easy escape with 
that 1 year after what happened to my fellow patriots. 

Mr. "O'KoNSKi. In other words, Doctor, it is safe to say, is it not, 
that your interest in Katyn was purely one of honor in regard to 
your profession, which was medicine, and not political in any manner, 
shape, or form ? 

Dr. Tramsen. That is so. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. In that respect, I want to say that you are a credit 
to the medical profession. 

Chairman Madden. Any more questions? 

Now, Doctor, if there is any more that you wish to add to what 
you have already said, the committee would be ghid to hear you. 

Dr. Tramsen. I don't think I have anytliing more to add. 

Chairman Madden. On behalf of the committee, I want to say that 
we appreciate your great sacrifice in coming here today. We fully 
realize that your business has been neglected, by reason of taking time 
to come down to Frankfurt. Your testimony has been very valuable 
in fixing the time of the burial of these bodies at Katyn, and this 
connnittee owes you a debt of gratitude in contributing facts concern- 
ing this international crime. 

Thank you very much. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1485 

Dr. Tramsen. Thank you very much for having listened to me. 
Chairman INIaddex. Dr. Wilhehn Zietz. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. WILHELM ZIETZ (THEOUGH THE INTERPrtETER 

ARTHUR MOSTNI) 

Cliairman Madden. Do you have any objection to being photo- 
graphed ? 

Dr. Zietz. No ; I do not. 

Chairman Maddex. Give the reporter your full name and address. 

Dr. Zietz. Dr. Wilhehn Zietz, Wesseldueren/Holstein, Suder- 
strasse 26. 

Chairman Maddex. Doctor, I'll read a statement. 

Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your attention to the 
fact that under German law you will not be liable for slander or 
libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for anything you may 
say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the same time, 
I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of the 
United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any 
responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander proceed- 
ings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that? 

Dr. Zietz. Yes. 

Chairman Maddex. You will stand and be sworn, Doctor. 

Do you swear by God the Almighty that you will, according to the 
best of your knowledge, tell the truth, the whole truth, so help you 
God? 

Dr. Zietz. I do, so help me God. 

Mr. PYooD. What is your name? 

Dr. Zietz. Wilhehn Zietz. 

Mr. Flood. Were you formerly identified with the former German 
Government? 

Dr. Zietz. From 1939 through 1945 I was with the Reich Health 
Service and the Reich Chamber of Doctors. 

Mr. Flood. In 1943, what was your official title with the then Ger- 
man Government? 

Dr. Zietz. I was Deputy Chief of the Riech Public Health Service 
and Reich Physicians' Chamber with the Foreign Office. 

Mr. Flood. Who was your chief? 

Dr. Zietz. Dr. Conte. 

Mr. Flood. What was his title ? 

Dr. Zietz. Reich Leader of Public Health Service and Secretary of 
State. 

Mr. Flood. I direct your attention to the year 1943 and ask you 
when and under what circumstances was the Katyn matter brought 
to your attention in your official capacity? 

Dr. Zietz. We of the department first heard a radio address of for- 
mer Reich Minister Dr. Goebbels who broadcast to the public for the 
first time that a massacre beyond imagination had been discovered at 
Katyn. To the best of my recollection, it must have happened within 
the first 14 days of the month of April. Subsequently, I learned that 
it was Professor Buhtz who was in charge of the exhumations at 
Katyn. Professor Buhtz just happened to be a good old friend of 



1486 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

mine since the days of onr common studies. I knew him to be a very 
reliable scientist of extremely good character. 

Subsequently, I called him at Smolensk and asked him what I 
should believe of this report. He told me over the phone that dis- 
coveries of extreme importance had been made in connection with 
gruesome executions of former Polish officers, and that it was his 
opinion that the Russians had been those who committed the execu- 
tions. He told me, however, that the figures indicated by Dr. Goeb- 
bels did not square with the truth. In fact, those figures were less, 
and this fact, he told me might perhaps be explained by the fact that 
about 11,000 or 12,000 Polish officers w^ere still missing. 

I asked him whether or not it would be desirable to dispatch a 
committee of international scientists to the scene which he answered 
in the affirmative. 

I subsequently proceeded to Dr. Conte who gave me an absolutely 
free hand to act, provided that both of us would agree upon the dis- 
patch of an international committee being desirable. 

I subsequently proceeded to the Foreign Office and the cultural 
political department which, in fact, was competent for such affairs 
and I discussed with the cultural political department the expediency 
of such an international committee. The cultural political depart- 
ment of the Foreign Office right away agreed to it. 

Subsequently, someone spoke over the phone with Foreign Minister 
Ribbentrop at Fuschel — I don't know any more who it was — and 
received on the next day already his complete agreement. 

It was agreed upon that the host would be the Reich health leader 
so as not to give a political tang to this whole affair, and the Foreign 
Office had nothing to do but merely convey the invitations of the Reich 
health leader to all people — friendly nations, neutral nations, as well 
as our allies. In case they were occupied territories, appropriate 
German occupation authorities were contacted who, in turn, conveyed 
the messages to the proper local agencies. In essence, the Foreign 
Office was responsible for the conveyance of most of these invitations 
to foreign countries. It all went very fast, and, if I am not mistaken, 
during the latter days of April 1943, we had collected all the partici- 
pants in Berlin. Eventually, it is a well known fact, we had 13 coun- 
tries participating, 12 representatives who felt they had full authority 
to act, and a thirteenth, as Dr. Tramsen already testified, the repre- 
sentative of the French Vichy Government, who felt he was merely 
competent as an observer. 

I no longer possess any written documents which I might refer to, 
such as Dr. Tramsen possessed in huge quantities, so I have to rely 
upon my power of recollection and particularly so as I haven't seen 
the white book ever since 1945. 

All our guests were quartered nt the Adlon Hotel in Berlin and, up 
to the time of their leaving for Smolensk, they were taken care of by 
myself there. 

The flight to Smolensk must have taken place on the 27th or 28th of 
April. Dr. Tramsen would be in a better position to know that. I 
wouldn't know any more. I was taking care of the guests by asking 
every individual guest as to his wishes and desires, and sometimes also 
attending to dinner parties or supper parties and also inviting a series 
of German physicians to attend, as, for instance. Dr. Mueller-Hesse. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1487 

Mueller-Hesse was Berlin's most prominent doctor of forensic medi- 
cine and still is today. He, subsequently, too was at Katyn. 

Neither the Foreign Office nor Dr. Conte had given us any instruc- 
tions as to Katyn. I was officially instructed to accompany the com- 
mittee and to take care of all their desires. There was no discussion 
whatever of a protocol or any kind of agreement or stipulation because 
none of us knew what we had to anticipate at Katyn. We flew to 
Smolensk in a Condor plane. There was a stop-over sometime in 
Brest-Litovsk where we had breakfast. There was nobody present 
but an observer of the Foreign Office, whose name, however, I don't 
know and who actually did nothing at all but just observe, so that 
most likely, the members of the committee did not get to know him at 
all. There was also a female doctor from Berlin/Lichtenfelde travel- 
ing along, whose name I indicated to the committee at Godesburg 
some time ago. That was the desire of some ministry. Neither I nor 
she knew why she came along. Actually, she was not anxious to go 
there to see what there was to see. Then there was a photo reporter in 
order to take snapshots. To the best of my knowledge, his name was 
Pabl, but I believe he was killed in action. He is no longer alive. 

In Smolensk we were greeted by a general surgeon, Dr. Holm. 
Recently at Godesburg I said that to the best of my recollection his 
name was Reinharclt, because I could not properly recollect. I want 
to correct that statement : his name was Holm, and he is purportedly 
still alive. 

In addition, there was a number of members of the German Army, 
principally doctors. 

We were escorted to a so-called hotel at Smolensk. It was a hotel of 
which the Russians boasted, which consisted of nothing but a facsimile, 
and which was so dreary that you actually couldn't expect to find 
anything else in a destroyed town. 

In the evening, as every day, we had supper at the casiono of the 
general surgeon. Dr. Holm took very much care of foreign guests, 
and during the meeting in the evening he promised every freedom of 
movement during inspection or survey, and placed every support and 
every cooperation of the army group central at their disposal. We 
did not see Field Marshal General von Kluge. On our way to Smo- 
lensk we constantly had to pass by his residence. It was called, I 
believe, the red castle, or something to that effect. 

To the best of my knowledge on the first evening, at the occasion of 
a greeting by Holm, there was practically no discussion of Katyn. 
It was more or less meant that the individual members got acquainted 
with each other. Holm and Buhtz were very much concerned about 
these gentlemen getting an absoluetely independent impression. Sub- 
sequently there were inspections, surveys, post mortems, and the fa- 
miliarizing of them with the environment of Katyn, always under the 
leadership of Buhtz and Holm. I myself always had been present, 
even though I was not a medical doctor. 

I recall we also visited the so-called museum of the field police, 
where all items had been placed on display in glass showcases, which 
so far had been discovered by way of diaries, also pocketbooks, tobacco 
pouches, and so forth. That is where I believe we got to know Mr. 
Voss, who, I take it, was in command of the field police. 

The members of the committee were free to take anything out of 
the showcases they were interested in or which they desired to read. 



1488 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

There was no document that would not have been accessible to them. 

The graves were exhaustively inspected and the entire area of the 
woods was surveyed. By the side of the largest of the main graves — 
and I take it tliat it was grave No. 5, but I am not positive, I may be 
mistaken about that — wooden tables were place for the post mortems 
or the autopsies, as well as small tables for the typewriters on which 
autopsy reports could be typed up. 

Dr. Holm and Dr. Buhtz had thoroughlv prepared everything so 
that each of these foreign gentlemen who desired to do so could per- 
form autopsies. 

Some of the gentlemen worked all by themselves ; others worked in 
teams of two. They were assisted by gentlemen from the Institute of 
Forensic Medicine, Avhich had moved from Breslau to Smolensk, 
medics, noncoms, and Polish and Russian laborers as well, who were 
carrying corpses. 

The smell of the corpses was impossible to bear, so, for the first time 
in mv life, I became a chain smoker. Shortly beyond the residence of 
von Kluge the smell of the corpses became discernible. It was a very 
hot summer. 

I myself am no expert in autopsies. However, I looked at every- 
thing closely and I was even able to stand it througli to the end. It 
was my principal duty to see to it tliat all wishes of our foreign guests 
wore met. 

Incidentally, T recall there was a broadcastiug truck present, whei-e 
discs might be made nnd broadcast right awav. I myself had such 
a conversation with Professor Saxen, from Helsinki, a professor of 
the University of Helsinki, a professor of pathology. I also made 
a disc with a female doctor from Berlin, who, however, told me these 
corpses were so gruesome, and she asked me to only mention the 
corpses in the introduction, so that our conversation over the radio con- 
sisted more or less onlv of a discussion of a wide Russian rouutrv. the 
city walls of Smolensk, the relics of Napoleon, and the Cathedral. 

I t^ke it I need not discuss the details of Katyn because Dr. Tram- 
sen did so exhaustively. 

On the last day at noon, still at Katyn, certain members of the dele- 
gation asked me what we now anticipated or expected from them as 
a result of it. They themselves suggested to me that it was most 
likely they would be of a unanimous opinion in regard to a protocol. 
This intimation did not start on the German side. As a matter of 
fact, it was made by the foreign, by the alien parties. 

We met Profes'^or Buhtz at the Institute of Forensic ISIedicine in 
the afternoon. With one exception, there were no Germans present 
but Professor Buhtz and myself. Professor Buhtz was requested to 
take charge of the negotiations, that is, more or less only of the tech- 
nical side of the discuss'on, not of the contents. As to the contents, 
it was more or less performed by the spokesman of the connnittee, 
the senior member, Pi'ofessor Orsos. It was, at any I'ate, a discus- 
sion between the foreign participants as to what should be contained 
in the protocol. There were no material discrej^ancies of opinion, it 
was more as to the form or as to the extent of the statements to be made. 

For instance, I myself did not knoAv this at Katyn. I mean, the ques- 
tion of the ]ilanting of trees. During that session, however, Profpssor 
Orsos requested a microscope. He jiroduced ou.t of a bag one of these 
Ra))lings that Dr. "^ri'auisen had inentiouiMl befoi'e, and demonstrated. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1489 

by the specimen, that these saplings had been replanted on one pre- 
vious occasion and that, according to his findings, these saplings had 
been standing in one place for 3 years, and prior to that, for another 
2 years, in a different place. 

It was very interesting to notice, during that discussion as well as 
during all of the previous discussions, that all of the participants of 
the committee were unanimous as to a recognition of the international 
reputation of Dr. Orsos. But even in the course of this issue here 
there was a clear political difference between the Hungarian and the 
Rumanian. The Rumanian guest was a lecturer of the Institute of 
Forensic Medicine at Bucharest, which enjoyed a very good reputa- 
tion. His name was Dr. Birkle. He emphasized, however, that he 
was no German but a full-blooded Rumanian. Dr. Birkle frequently 
objected to the findings of Dr. Orsos, and frequently found them to 
be too far reaching or of a too dictatorial nature. 

All of us frequently smiled at these bickerings, because it was our 
opinion that this Avas clearly manifested in former differences about 
Sienburgen and other parts of the country. This was expressed i^ar- 
ticularly when the question of these fir trees arose. Birkle said, in 
essence, as follows : 

"Professor Orsos, you may be* a really competent doctor of forensic 
medicine, and you might also be a very good artist, but that you, 
however, wish to be a very competent botanist, that is going too far." 

Now, Professor Orsos demanded that his theory be adopted. I 
mean, the theory about the 3 and 2 years, respectively. Then 
one of the participants asked whether or not there was a forestry ex- 
pert of the army group present. Professor Buhtz replied in the 
affirmative, and called up from the very same room that a forestry 
expert should report at once. He actually appeared within a few 
minutes, and he had no inkling as to what he was supposed to say. 
That was Mr. von Herff. 

Now, Mr. von Herff took one look at the microscope, and, I wish 
to emphasize, right on the spur of the moment, without having been 
told before what the subject of the discussion was, said, "This tree 
here has been standing in one place for 3 years, here is a notch, and 
it has been standing in another place 2 years prior to that." That, 
at least, is what I remember. 

After this clear-cut, expert statement of Mr. von Herff, Dr. Birkle 
admitted that he had been licked, and he furthermore admitted that 
Dr. Orsos was also a competent botanist. 

Essentially, I can fully concur in what Dr. Tramsen testified to 
before in the course of those proceedings. Not a single one of the 
foreign participants was forced to make a statement for the protocol 
or to sign anything. What could we, the two German participants, 
have done if anyone had said, "No, I won't sign it" ? He would merely 
have had to say, "I haven't received such authority from my Gov- 
ernment; I Avas merely instructed to go and take a look at the things 
at Katyn." That was the attitude taken by the French representa- 
tive, who has been previously sufficiently characterized by Dr. 
Tramsen. He was a good-natured old gentleman who, however, had 
no essential private opinion. He stated, however, that he, for his 
person, was in full agreement with what he saw and with what the 
committee determined. I am referring to the end of the protocol 
where, if I remember correctly, he and Professor Buhtz are men- 



1490 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

tioned as the two gentlemen who fully concurred in what had been 
said. I, for my part, could not indicate my agreement, due to the 
fact that I am not a medical man. 

This instrument, when we were back in Berlin, was transmitted by 
the foreign participants of the committee to my chief. Dr. Conte, on 
the occasion of a formal visit, and it also included a formal speech. 
Subsequently, and by his order, I transmitted one copy of it to the 
Foreign Office. Then we had photostatic copies made so that the 
signatures would also be pictorially visible, and gave one copy to 
every member. 

Part of the members of this delegation remained in Berlin for an- 
other week, and we further took care of their wishes. For instance, 
I made an appointment for a visit to the Institute of Forensic Medi- 
cine in Berlin; they purchased medical textbooks; they went to look 
at this or that. Then they individually left Berlin. 

Some time later, it might have been about 10 or 14 days later, a 
German medical committee had been flown up there. It was I who 
also intimated that such a commission should go. However, I did not 
take part in it. The most prominent member of it, I believe, was the 
formerly-mentioned Mueller-Hesse. That delegation, too, went on 
record with a statement. 

The Foreign Office was preparing a so-called White Book of the 
Katyn incident, and these visits, as well as the determinations set 
forth in the protocol, were also mentioned in the Wliite Book. I then 
cooperated in the preparation of the Wliite Book, and principally saw 
to it that a great medical report of Professor Buhtz was contained in 
it, in which he set forth all of his experiences. I had a series of pic- 
tures made, which I deemed expedient, and I was also proofreading, 
along with others. 

When my book had been completed, I submitted one copy to each of 
the foreign participants and received friendly letters of gratitude 
from all of the members as I remained in a pleasant exchange of let- 
ters and thoughts with many of them. 

Mr. Flood. May I say this, doctor: I am interested in that very 
extensive and detailed report. When you invited the foreign and 
neutral governments to participate in the commission, did any of them 
refuse ? 

Dr. Ztetz. We don't know who had been invited by the Foreign 
Office. In Switzerland, for instance, as also in other countries, invita- 
tions were conveyed through the Ambassador. For instance, we would 
have liked to have Spain and Portugal also represented ; however, the 
efforts of Dr. Conti in this respect were of no avail. Perhaps there 
were too many objections engendered by neutrality. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear that Portugal refused? 

Dr. Ztktz. No. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear that the Spanish delegate never 
participated? 

Dr. ZiETZ. No, he did not participate. Spain was not present. 

Mr. Flood. Did you know that the Swedish delegate was seriously 
injured in a motor accident just before he left Stockholm for the 
Berlin meeting? 

Dr. ZiETZ. Yes; we deeply regretted it. I believe he sustained an 
injury of his spinal column, vertebrae, or something to that effect, and 
for a whole year he lay in a plaster cast. We already had been notified 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1491 

of his participation, and we would have liked very much to have had 
him, and I have been with him in amicable correspondence for a long 
time. 

Mr. Flood. Were you here this morning when Dr. Sweet, of the 
allied institute for the possession of war-captured documents, was 
testifying ? 

Dr. ZiETz. No. Due to a failure of a locomotive, I arrived 2 hours 
late. 

Mr. Flood. Did you know that the Foreign Office, in transmitting 
the invitation that you are talking about, has asked certain of its diplo- 
mats to look for anti- Jewish or pro-Nazi scientists ? 

Dr. ZiETZ. That is unknown to me. These suggestions definitely 
were not made by my chief. 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember the Bulgarian member, Markov, and 
the Czech member, Hajek? 

Dr. ZiETZ. Very well. 

Mr. Flood. Did either Markov or Hajek, at any time during your 
association with the commission, object to any treatment they were 
receiving from the Germans, or in any way protest or disagree with 
the findings of their colleagues on the commission? 

Dr. ZiETz. No ; no. In the first place, I wish to deal with Professor 
Markov. I, for myself, hold Professor Markov in high esteem as a 
man of impeccable character. After Katyn, he repeatedly wrote 
friendly letters to me and never expressed any skepticism on his part. 

I can fully understand he made a different statement at Nuremberg 
because he had occasion to see at Katyn how such things are done. 

Professor Hajek also wrote me once or twice afterward. He cer- 
tainly had no easy position in the protectorate. However, he never 
gave any indication that he would not fully go along and agree with 
wliat was signed. 

Mr. Flood. You are aware, of course, that Markov and Hajek have 
both changed their original story and have recanted from their 
signatures and opinions of the international protocol ? 

Dr. ZiETZ. That, in my opinion, is merely a lack of scientific con- 
viction due to a threat to life and limb. 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, the committee wishes to thank you for 
coming here and testifying tqday. Your testimony has been very 
valuable. 

Mr. von Herff. 

TESTIMONY OF FRITZ VON HERFF, MICHELSTADT/ODENWALD, 
GERMANY (THROUGH INTERPRETER MOSTNI) 

Chairman Maddex. Mr. von Herff, do you object to being photo- 
graphed ? 

Mr. VON Herff. No. 

Chairman Madden. Just give the reporter your name and address, 
Mr. von Herff. 

Mr. yoN Herff. Fritz von Herff; Michelstadt/Odenwald ; forester. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. von Herff, I will read a statement for your 
consideration. 



1492 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your attention to the 
fact that, under the German Law, you will not be liable for slander or 
libel, either in criminal or civil proceedings, for anything that you 
may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the same 
time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of the 
United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any 
responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander proceed- 
ings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Now will you stand and be sworn ? 

Mr. Flood. Does the record indicate that the witness understood 
the admonition ? 

Mr. voN Herff. Yes, I did. 

Chairman Madden. Do you solemnly swear, by God the Almighty, 
that you will testify, according to your best knowledge, and tell the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; so help you God? 

Mr. VON Herff. I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Fritz von Herff. 

]Mr. Flood. What is your present occupation or business? 

Mr. VON Herff. Forester. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified with the German Armed 
Forces ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. I direct your attention to the year of 1943 and ask you 
whether or not you were serving with the German armed forces on the 
Russian front in the Smolensk area ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Were you serving in your capacity as a forester for the 
Armed Services in that area ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Flood. Are you aware of the Katyn Forest and the massacre 
of the Polish officers in that area ? 

INIr. VON PIerff. I am pretty well familiar with the woods sur- 
rounding Katyn because I was extensively occupied in furnishing wood 
to German troops billeted around the area. 

Mr. Flood. "V\nien did you first arrive in the Smolensk area? 

Mr. VON Herff. In the end of December 1941, I came to Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. When did you leave ? 

Mr. VON Herff. On the 1st of August 1943. 

INIr. Flood. In all the time you were in the area, did you have oc- 
casion to visit the area of the Katyn Forest in the vicinity of the 
Dnieper Castle? 

Mr. VON Herff. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have occasion, in your professional capacity 
as a forester, to observe carefully the nature of the terrain and the 
nature of the trees and growth within a thousand meters or more of 
the Dnieper Castle ? 

Mr. VON Herff. According to my notes, I and my superior, a cap- 
tain, inspected the Katyn graves on the 14th of April. 

Mr. Flood. When was the first day that the graves -were opened 
by the Germans in April of 1943, if you know? 

Mr. VON Herff. I don't know the exact date. It must have been 
eight or 14 days before. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1493 

Mr. Flood. During the time that you were in the Katyn Forest 
area, in December of 1941, until April 15, 1943, did you ever observe 
any extensive growths of small pine, evergreen, or birch trees ? 

Mr. voN Herff. The entire region of Krasny Bor is a wooded area, 
the woods principally consisting of fir trees of various ages. 

Mr. Flood. Is it possible for a forester of your experience, by ob- 
servation, to be able to tell whether or not evergreen trees or birch 
trees have been transplanted within 3 years, if there had been any 
extensive transplanting in one area? 

Mr. VON Herff. That is not easy to say. 

Mr. Flood. Is it easy to say one way or the other? 

Mr, VON Herff. No. It is impossible to say so definitely. 

Mr. Flood. Certainly, in the length of time you were in the Katyn 
area, you examined the forests or the woods within a thousand meters 
of tlie Dnieper Castle; did you not? 

Mr. VON Herff. I was not around the castle much because that 
Avas the residence of the commander in chief and it was not so easy 
to gain access to the area. 

Mr. Flood. Did you gain access and make any inspections or sur- 
veys for timber or lumber or fuel, or did you examine the woods 
and forest in the area? 

Mr. VON Herff. I did not survey any timber or lumber or wood of 
any kind in the area surrounding the graves. My area of operation 
was far away from Katyn, up to 60 kilometers from Katyn. 

Ml'. Flood. When was the matter of the Katyn graves first brought 
to your attention in your official ca]:)acity as a forester? 

Mr. VON Herff. On the 30th of April. 

Mr. Flood. In what manner ? 

Mr. von Herff. I received a telephone call from the chief quarter- 
master telling me that I was supposed to proceed forthwith to a hos- 
pital in the eastern portion of Smolensk. There I was supposed to 
render an expert statement. The evening was approaching. I pro- 
ceeded there, and there I found an international committee, about 
a dozen gentlemen. Presiding was General Surgeon Holm. General 
Holm presented to me several fir saplings — as has been mentioned by 
a previous witness — about 30 or 40 centimeters, one foot and a half 
in height. There might have been 2 or 3 pieces. 

In the first place, I determined the age. To the best of my recol- 
lection, it was from about 5 to 7 years. Then I was asked whether 
the growing process had been a normal one. To this end, a crosscut 
of the sapling was made and I took a look at the crosscut under a 
microscope. There you could clearly see the year rings. 

Every wooden plants adds every year one ring of wood, which 
is clearly discernible. Now, it could be easily traced back that one 
of these yearly rings, 3 years ago, was of a very small size. This year, 
consequently, the gTowth of the plant must have been stunted. 

Being foresters, we know that every plant, after being transplanted, 
does not grow normally the first year after the transplanting has been 
effected because the roots of the plant have to get accustomed to the 
new soil in which the plant grows. Therefore, I expressed my opinion 
that 3 years ago — that is, 3 years prior to 1943 — something must have 
happened to the plant. 



1494 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Hence, when asked by the chairman whether a transplantation of 
a plant might have been done about 3 years ago, I replied in the 
affirmative. 

The gentlemen of the committee were in full agreement but for a 
single party, who asked whether this stunted growth of the plant 
perhaps could be ascribed to inclement weather conditions. I right 
away admitted such a possibility. 

That concluded my expert statement and I was asked no further 
questions. 

Mr. Flood. Did you know where the tree came from that was shown 
to you by the scientist that night ? 

Mr. VON Herff. No. I had not been told. 

Mr. Flood. Did you know a Dr. Buhtz ? 

Mr. VON Herff. I knew nothing of the gentleman. 

Mr. Flood. You did not talk to Dr. Buhtz on the phone or in person 
at any time prior to your visit to the scientist that night? 

Mr. VON Herff. I did not speak with any one of these gentlemen, 
either before or after this issue. 

Mr. Flood. What was the rank of the officer that talked to you and 
gave you your orders to go to Smolensk ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Well, I could not say ; it was most likely an orderly 
officer who merely transmitted an order presumably given by the chief 
quartermaster. 

Mr. Flood. How many rings were on the crosscut of the tree that 
you examined that night in Smolensk? 

Mr. VON Herff. As I said before, I don't remember quite accurately, 
but I indicated before, to the best of my recollection, the saplings were 
from 5 to 7 years of age. 

Mr. Flood. If a sapling had seven rings on it, how old would it be? 

Mr. VON Herff. Seven years of age. 

Mr. Flood. Does it show a full ring for its first year of growth? 

Mr. VON Herff. That is merely intimated by a point — a dot. 

Mr. Flood. Do you count the dot as one full year ? 

Mr. VON Herff. One full year. 

Mr. Flood. And you don't recall the exact number of rings in addi- 
tion to the dot on the sapling you saw that night? 

]Mr. VON Herff. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Flood. But you are positive it was not less than five? 

Mr. VON Herff. I am quite positive of that. 

Mr. Flood. Was there any indication on the cross-cut sapling you 
saw of a darkening of the ring at the third ring ? 

Mr. VON Herff. I do not remember any longer. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever see the graves at Katyn with trees the size 
that you are indicating you examined in Smolensk planted on the 
graves ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Inasmuch as I visited the graves prior to having 
made this examination of the sapling, I didn't pay so nnich attention 
to the trees planted there. However, I recall that they were of 
ap):)roximate]y the same size as that sapling. 

Mr. Flood. Did you visit the graves before they were opened? 

Mr, VON Herff. After they had been opened. 

Mr. Flood. After they had been opened ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Yes. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1495 

Mr. Flood. Did you see any trees lying around the area that you 
had been told had been removed from the top of the graves? 

Mr. VON Herff. No ; I do not recall. 

Mr. Flood. Had anybody discussed with you the existence of trees 
of the type and kind you examined at Smolensk as having bteen 
planted on the graves of the Polish officers ? 

Mr. VON Herff. No ; I know nothing about that. 

Mr. Flood. Of course, at the time you went to the meeting of inter- 
national scientists in Smolensk you had heard about the Katyn graves 
and they had been opened? 

Mr. VON Herff. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Weren't you curious or didn't you think in your mind 
what these scientists were doing there that you, as a forester, were 
called in to talk to them? 

Mr. VON Herff, Well, from the whole proceedings I was given to 
understand that I was supposed to help find out from the sapling I 
examined when these corpses had been buried. 

Mr. Flood. The German side in this case takes the position, among 
others, in support of their conclusion that the Russians had perpe- 
trated this massacre and, in order to conceal the graves in which the 
bodies were buried, took saplings 2 years of age, transplanted them on 
the graves, with the result that when the Germans, in April 1943, un- 
covered the graves, the saplings would then be 5 years of age. In your 
professional opinion as a forester, could the sapling or the two or t:hree 
of them showed to you that night in Smolensk, especially the one you 
examined the cross-cut of, have been such a sapling as could be 5 years 
of age and could have been transplanted 3 years previously to 1943 ? 

Mr. VON Herff. Definitely so. It might have been such a one, 
definitely. 

Mr. Flood. That's all. 

Chairman Madden. Any other questions ? 

We're very thankful for your testimony here today. Thanl^ you 
very much. 

The committee will now recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. 

(Whereupon, at 6:05 p. m., Wednesday, April 23, 1952, a recess 
was taken until 10 a. m. Thursday, April 24, 1952.) 



93744— 52— pt. 5 18 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



THURSDAY, APRIL 24, 1952 

House of Representati\'e, 
The Select Committee on the Katyn Forest Massacre, 

Frankfurt/Main^ Germany. 

The committep met at 10 a. m., pursiirait to recess, in the Main Court- 
room, Resident Officer's Building, 45 Bockenheimer Anlage, Hon. Ray 
J. Madden (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Messrs. Madden, Flood, Machrowicz, Dondero, and 
O'Konski. 

Also present: John J. Mitchell, chief counsel to the Select Com- 
mittee, and Roman Pucinski, investigator and interpreter. 

Present also: Arthur R. Mostni and Eckhardt von Hahn, inter- 
preters. 

(The proceedings and testimony were translated into the German 
language.) 

Chairman Madden. The committee will come to order. 

TESTIMONY OF WLADYSLAW KAWECKI, WUEEZBTJEG, GERMANY 
(THROUGH POLISH INTERPRETER, ROMAN PUCINSKI) 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Kawecki, do you object to being photo- 
graphed ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I would rather not. 

Chairman Madden. Let me say to the photographers that this wit- 
ness prefers not to be photographed. At the beginning of the hear- 
ings we announced that the committee would comply with the request 
of any witness who desired, during the progress of these hearings, not 
to be photographed, either before or after or during his testimony. 
That is in line with the rules of the House of Representatives. 

Will you just give your name and address? 

Mr. Kawecki. Wladyslaw Kawecki, Wuerzburg, Germany. 

Chairman Madden. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that, under German law. you will not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in civil or criminal proceedings, for anything 
you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the 
same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government 
of the United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes 
any res]^onsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander 
proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes, I do. 

Chairman Madden. Raise your right hand and be sworn. 

1497 



1498 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Do you swear, by God the Almighty, that you will, according to the 
best of your knowledge, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth ; so help you God ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I do. 

Chairman Madden. You may proceed, Mr. Machrowicz. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Wliat is your name? 

Mr. Kawecki. Kawecki. 

Mr. Machrowicz. What is your first name? 

Mr. Kawecki. Wladyslaw. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Where do you live? 

Mr, KxVWECKi. In Wuerzburg. 

Mr. Machrowicz. During the year 1939, were you in the Polish 
army? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In what rank ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Second lieutenant. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Prior to the war, what was your occupation ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I was a journalist. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In April 1943, were you in Poland? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In what part of Poland? 

Mr. KLawecki. In Krakow. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Sometime in April, were you called by anyone to 
go to Katyn ? 

Mr. Kawecki. That is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who asked you to go to Katyn ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I was summoned to the office of the Press Chief of the 
Govermnent General in Krakow on the 9tli of April, at noon. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was that before, or after it w^as announced that 
the graves of Katyn were found ? 

Mr. Kawecki. It was from him that I learned of the fact that the 
graves were discovered at Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Witness, for your information, the Germans 
announced the finding of the graves on the 15th of April 1943. Do 
you remember that date? 

Mr. Kawecki. That may be true, because the first announcement 
of the discovery of the graves was made only after the return of the 
second Polish grouj) to Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Then you would say that you left about the 9th of 
April, is that right ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I left on the 10th of April, in the morning. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who Avas with you ? 

Mr. Kawecki. The day that I was notified of my departure I did 
not know who was going to be with me. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who accompanied you on the trip? 

Mr. Kawecki. We had to assemble at 7 in the morning in front of 
the propaganda lieadquarters in Krakow. From there we left for the 
airport near Krakow. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Who was with you on this trip? 

Mr. Kawecki. I left with the chief of an organization that provided 
for the evacuees from the I'oziian area, tlie Poles who were evacuated 
from Poznan, the RGO, whose name was K(hnoud Sayt'red, a Pole; 
and a worker in the Zielinski factory, whose name was, Ian Prochownik. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1499 

I want to make clear that this was a Polish organization that Say- 
fred headed. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were you told what the purpose of your trip was ? 

Mr. KA^^^:CKI. I was told on the 9th of April when I was summoned 
to the press chief's office. 

Mr. Machrowicz. What were you told ? 

Mr. Wawecki. I was told that in the region of Smolensk had been 
found graves of Polish Army officers. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were you told what the purpose of your trip was ? 

Mr. Kawecki. For the purpose of convincing ourselves whether or 
not these were Polish officers. 

Mr. Machrowicz. After the plane left Krakow, did it make any stop 
before it arrived at Katyn ? 

Mr, Kaavecki. Yes; it did. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Where ? 

Mr. Kawecki. The airplane landed in Warsaw. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you take on any additional passengers in 
Warsaw ? 

Mr. I^wECKi. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Can you tell us the names of any of those who got 
on at Warsaw ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes ; I can. All told, eight people boarded the plane 
in Warsaw. Among them were Ferdinand Goetel, who was president 
or the Polish literary club, and Jan Emil Skiwski. The rest of the 
group consisted of officials from the local Warsaw Polish Government. 

Mr. Machrowicz. For your information, witness, Mr. Goetel, whom 
you mentioned, has already testified before this committee during its 
proceedings in London regarding this trip. 

Mr. KL^^vECKI. Thank you. 

Mr. Machroavicz. Did you then go to Smolensk ? 

Mr. Kawecki. In about 20 minutes. After about a 20-minute delay, 
the plane left for Smolensk. 

Mr. Machrowicz. What happened after you arrived at Smolensk? 

Mr. Kawtecki. We arrived at Smolensk approximately at 2 in the 
afternoon. There we waited for the arrival of automobiles at the air- 
port. We waited for a half hour. About two or three cars arrived in 
a half hour and they took us to the hotel. 

Mr. Machrowicz. What happened after that? 

Mr. Kawecki. We arrived at the hotel and were received there 
by the officials. Then we were taken to dinner in the Casino. Later 
on, a German lieutenant, whose name we later learned was Sloven- 
czyk, came to us. 

Mr. Machroavicz. Did he later take you to the scene of the graves? 

Mr. Kawecki. Not that evening, but the following day at 9 : 30 
in the morning we left for Katyn. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Will you tell us what you saw and noticed and 
did when you arrived at the scene of the Katyn graves ? 

Mr. Kaavecki. After our arrival at the graveyard of Katyn, we 
were greeted by a delegation of high-ranking German officers, and 
included in that group was the gentleman who was here the other 
day, General von Gersdorif. After a brief reception by this group 
of higher officers, we were immediately taken to the largest grave, 
where we were confronted with a horrible sight. 

It did not take us long to establish clearly in our minds that these 



1500 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

were the Polish officers. We established this by the uniforms that 
they wore, the buttons, the insignia, and the characteristic Polish 
boots, 

Mr. Machroavicz. Will you just tell us what part you took person- 
ally in the examination of these bodies? 

Mr. Kawecki. After viewing this large grave, we were taken to 
another spot, where several exhumed bodies were lying. Among these 
we noticed the bodies of General Smorawinski and General Bohatero- 
Vvacz. Both of these men were readily recognizable because of their 
uniform and because of the high distinguished medals which they still 
had on them. 

General Bohaterowicz had on a fur coat, from which we concluded 
that he must have been executed or the period of his death must have 
been during the winter months or in the early spring. 

Immediately, we were given complete freedom and permission, 
with the help of the Russian workers, to select at will the bodies from 
the graves and proceed to search these bodies for records or any other 
means that we wanted to use to try to determine the method of their 
death. After examining some 40 bodies, we concluded that these men 
met their death through a bullet shot through the back of the head, 
with the bullet leaving through the forehead. 

Next, we had an opportunity to mingle with the Russian workers in 
the area, and in reply to our questions as to when these murders were 
committed, they told us that the period was from March to May of 
1940. 

I recall particularly the name of one of these Russians that I talked 
to. His name was Kisielev. I spoke to him in Russian and I had 
an opportunity to see, from my personal conversation with him, in his 
own language, whether he was telling me these things willingly. I 
felt that if a German translator were present he might be coerced or 
embarrassed and might not tell me everything. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Just a moment. Did Kisielev and whomever else 
you talked to tell you how they knew that these killings took place 
between March and May 1940 ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Kisielev said that he had been told by his friends in 
Gniezdowo how they had seen some unknown soldiers — soldiers that 
were not Russian or Soviet — being transferred to trucks at Gniezdowo 
and then being taken to the forest of Katyn, from which they were 
nevei; seen to return. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did they give you any other information upon 
which they based their belief that the killings took place within that 
pei'iod ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Independent of the conversations that I had with 
Kisielev, I talked to another Russian. I cannot recall his name, but I 
thinlv it was Kriwozorcew. He also worked on the farm nearby the 
forest and said that he had seen the NKVD vans, known as the "black 
ravens," bringing soldiers into the Katyn woods. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you w^ant to tell us any further observations 
that you made while you were at Katyn diu"ing that time? 

Mr. Kawecki. At the time, I was so unnerved by my whole expe- 
rience that I did not have the strength to carry on any sort of detailed 
investigation. Howev(>r, the observations that I did make coniirnied 
the liori'ible drama which we had witnessed at Katvn. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1501 

Mr. Machkuwicz. How many days did you remain in Katyn on that 
trip ? 

Mr. Kawecki. The following day we returned by plane to Poland. 

Mr. Machrow^icz. Did you make another trip to Katyn ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Machrowicz. When? 

Mr. Kawecki. The middle of May 1943. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Can you tell us how that second trip to Katyn 
was brought about ? 

Mr. Kawecki. After my return from my first trip to Katyn, I 
brought with me the list of the Polish officers who up to that time had 
been identified. 

Mr. Machrowicz. How many were there ? 

Mr. Kawecki. The first list that I and those with me compiled in- 
cluded approximately 50 names. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Before we leave the first trip, can you tell us 
how many bodies were exhumed at the time you were there the first 
time ? 

Mr. Kaavecki. During my first visit to Katyn, three graves were 
uncovered and there were approximately 70 people exhumed. Among 
these were the bodies of General Smorawinski and General Bohatero- 
wicz. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now will you proceed to tell us wh}' you were 
called the second time to Katyn? 

Mr. Kawecki. After my return, the list which I brought with me 
was published in the Polish newspapers, and the families of those 
men who were interned in Russia began making voluminous in- 
quiries as to more names, because the Germans at that time, the 
German propaganda, had indicated that there were between ten 
and eleven thousand bodies at Katyn. 

Mr. Kawecki. Further, Dr. Adam Szebesta, who was head of the 
Polish Red Cross at the time, was making inquiries of me for more 
names. Dr. Szebesta not onl}^ inquired of me for additional names, 
but also sought permission from the Germans to make avaliable to 
him the obtaining of additional names because there was a list of 
names, or several lists, that were sent through by a Polish Red Cross 
commission which had been working at Katyn since the latter part 
of April and the list was in such form that it could not be properly 
evaluated. The lists being sent to us by the commission in Katyn 
were being telephoned in and had to go through Minsk, Wilnow, 
Koenigsberg, Danzig, and finally Krakow\ 

Mr. jNIachrow^icz. And, in the process, did the names frequently 
end up in a difierent form than they should be? 

Mr. Kaw^ecki. Yes, the names were misspelled and incorrect by 
the time we received them. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And, as a result, did Dr. Szebesta ask the Ger- 
many authorities for permission to send some one to Katj'n who would 
get the spelling of the names? 

Mr. Kawecki. That is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were you delegated to do that ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Originally, Dr. Moliszewski was assigned to this 
mission, but because he had broken a leg prior to his departure, I 
was substituted for him. 

]\Ir. Machrowicz. With whom did vou iio to Katvn? 



1502 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Kawecki. I was instructed to leave by train from Krakow to 
Waclaw, Breslau, and then I proceeded from there by plane. 

Mr. Machrowicz. When did you arrive at Smolensk and Katyn 
the second time? 

Mr. Kawecki. On the plane trip from Breslau to Smolensk I was 
accompanied by a group of Allied prisoners of war who were being 
taken from Berlin to Smolensk. 

Mr. ]\Iaciiroavicz. The question that I asked you is what date did 
you arrive at Smolensk ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I do not recall the exact date, but I do know that it 
was in the middle of May. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Of 1943 ? 

Mr. Ka"\vecki. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz, Do you remember the names of any of these 
Allied prisoners of war who accompanied you by plane from Breslau 
to Smolensk? 

Mr. Kaavecki. At Breslau, I was not permitted to mingle or com- 
municate with the Allied prisoners of war. However, by the time 
we concluded the trip to Bialek-Polawski the rules were not as rigidly 
adhered to and, at lunch, I was sitting between a British medical 
captain and an Australian pilot who had the rank of lieutenant. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were there any American officers in this group ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes, there were among these American prisoners and 
I recall that one of them was in the rank of major. 

Mr. Machroavicz. Do you remember his name ? 

Mr. Kawecki. I recall it was Major Van Vliet. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was there another American officer in that 
group? 

Mr. Kawecki. As far as I recall, yes; there was another American 
in this group. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you remember his name or rank ? 

Mr. Kawecki. No, I do not. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Would it have been Lieutenant Stewart? 

Mr. Kawecki. It is possible, but I cannot recall the exact name. 

Mr. Machrowicz. This airport you mentioned as the place where 
you landed, was that the airport used for the Smolensk area ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes, that is correct. That was one of the two air 
fields used by the German authorities. 

Mr. Machrowicz. How long did you stay in the Katyn area on this 
trip? 

Mr. Kawecki. The period of my stay at Katyn was indeterminate. 
I was supposed to have remained there until I had completed the 
entire list. However, toward the end of May, the communications were 
very bad with Krakow and the weather became very bad, so, toward 
the end of May, I had returned to Krakow via Warsaw. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And then, those 2 or 3 weeks you spent at Katyn 
at that time, were confined to trying to get a correct list of the names 
of the officers ; am I right? 

Mr. Kawecki. That is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now, you mentioned the name of Dr. Adam 
Szebesta, the head of the Polish Red Cross. Was he with you on either 
the first or the second trip to Katyn? I am not interested in knowing 
the names of the people who were with Dr. Szebesta. All I want to 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1503 

know is whether Dr. Szebesta was with you on any of these trips to 
Katyn? 

Mr. Kawecki. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was he in Katyn a few days after your first 
trip, if you know ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes; that is correct. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And after you returned from the second trip to 
Katyn, did you work in close contact with Dr. Adam Szebesta in 
publishing the names of these Polish officers found in Katyn ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Dr. Szebesta was very much interested, as president 
of the Polish Red Cross, in this list of names. As a result, I had fre- 
quent opportunities to be in his office in Krakow. 

Mr. Machrowicz. As a result of your two trips to Katyn, did you 
establish in your own mind a belief as to who was the guilty party for 
the murders at Katyn ? 

Mr. Kawt:cki. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Wliat was your opinion ? 

Mr. Kawecki. During my 2 weeks' stay at Katyn I had an oppor- 
tunity, without any difficulty, to work in the entire terrain of the 
graves. I also had an opportunity to examine the letters and docu- 
ments. I also found on the bodies newspaper clippings, letters which 
had been dated but not mailed, and various other documents. 

Mr. Machrowicz. As a result of your observations, what was your 
opinion at that time as to who was guilty of the Katyn massacre? 

Mr. Kawecki. On the basis of my 2 weeks' stay at Katyn I came 
to the conclusion, and a conclusion that cannot be doubted, that the 
murderers of these soldiers in Katyn were the Bolsheviks. 

Mr. Machrowicz. By Bolsheviks you mean the Russians? 

Mr. Ka-\\tecki. That is correct. 

Mr. MACHR0\^^cz. Now, in the course of your conversations with 
Dr. Adam Szebesta, did you communicate to him what your beliefs 
were in this respect ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes; we frequently discussed the subject. I told 
him my observations and Dr. Szebesta personally was of the opinion 
likewise that the massacre at Katyn was perpetrated by the Soviets. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were these conversations between you and Dr. 
Szebesta done under such conditions and such an atmosphere that it 
indicated a free express on his part ? 

Mr. Kawecki. In 1942, both Dr. Szebesta and I had been arrested 
by the Gestapo and jailed in Krakow for several months. However, 
at the time of these particular discussions relative to Katyn, the situ- 
ation was such that we did not feel that we were under any particular 
surveillance or that we could not express our free opinions. 

Mr. Machrowicz. So that you are convinced, are you, that in your 
number of conversations with Dr. Szebesta he told you what his hon- 
est opinion was ; is that right ? 

Mr. Kawtecki. Dr. Szebesta was no stranger to me. I knew him 
during my army service and before the war, and there was no need on 
the basis of our personal acquaintance or friendship for either one of 
us to lie to each other. 

Mr. Machrowicz. I have had handed to me by one of the German 
correspondents who is present at this hearing a press release issued 
by the Polish Military Mission in Eastern Germany, dated March 28, 
1952, in which Dr. Szebesta is quoted as now having changed his opin- 



1504 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

ion on the question of guilt for the Katyn massacre. Are you familiar 
■with that statemen.l ( 

Mr. Kawecki. A few Jays ago I liad occasion to see a newspaper 
publislied by the Polisli Red Cross, a daily in Frankfurt, in which 
there a])pears the entire text of Dr. Szebesta's renunciation of his orig- 
inal views, 

Mr. MaciikOwicz. Are the views ;ind expressions whicli are con- 
tained in that statement by Dr. Szebesta in absolute and direct con- 
trast to the expressions which he freely expressed to jou when you were 
in Poland ? 

Mr. Kawecki. Unfortunately, that is correct. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. Now% after 1943, did you leave Poland? 

Mr. Kawpx'ki. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Machkoavicz. Were you later in Rome, Italy ? 

Mr. Kaavecki. Yes. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. In what year? 

Mr. Kawecki. 1947 and 1948. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. While you were in Rome during the years 1947 
and 1948, did anyone approach you with the direct purpose of trying 
to get you to change the statements made by 3'ou previously in Poland 
as to the guilt for the murder of the Polish oihcers in Katyn? 

Mr. Kawecki. Yes. In May 1947, I was approached in the vil- 
lage of Recceone. I was approached by an officer in the uniform of 
the Second Polish Corps, but, after he began asking me certain ques- 
tions, it became apparent to me that I was talking to a soldier of the 
Warsaw^ Government in Poland. His name was Alex Dobrowolski, 
wdio at that time, said he was the adjutant to the Polish Military At- 
tache in Rome whose name was Rosen Zawadzki. 

Mr. :Machrowicz. What did he tell you? 

Mr. Kawecki. Dobrowolski wanted to arouse my Polish sym- 
pathies. He tried to convince me that my conclusions and the state- 
ment made in 1943 were imder duress by the Germans. He proposed 
to me at that time that I sign a separate declaration renunciating 
those views, and he showed me two copies of a statement already pre- 
pared wdiicli he had in his possession. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. What happened then? 

Mr. Kawecki. After reading this declaration which contained 
therein a complete renunciation of all the views I expressed originally 
on this Katyn matter, he asked and requested me to sign it. I read 
it and then refused to sign it. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. Did he make any offers or propositions to in- 
duce you to sign the instrument? 

Mr. Kaw^ecki. Yes. While I was reading the declaration, Do- 
browolski took out of his pocket a packet of American dollars and laid 
them on the table. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. Did he tell you how nuich they were or did you 
know how much they were? 

Mr. Kawecki. No, he did not tell me and I didn't ask, but from 
my observation, I felt that there were about one hundred twenty dol- 
lar bank notes. 

Mr. Maciirowicz, Did you accept it? 

Mr. Kawecki. No. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1505 

Mr. Maciiroavicz. Have yon been offered or promised any con- 
sideration of any kind, monetary or otherwise, in order to testify be- 
fore tliis committee today? 

Mr. Kaavecki. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Is the statement made bj^ you here today, free 
and vohnitary? 

Mr. Kaavecki. That is correct. 

Mr. Machroavicz. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. Thank you A^ery much for testifying here to- 
day. 

TESTIMONY OF ERWIN ALLGAYER (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, 

ARTHUR MOSTNI) 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Allgayer, do you mind being photo- 
graphed ? 

Mr. Allgayer. I Avould prefer not to be. 

Chairman Madden. GiAe your full name to the reporter. 

Mr. Allgait^r. ErAvin Allgaj^er, Bad Kreutznach. 

Chairman Madden. Before you testify, it is our AA'ish to invite your 
attention to tlie fact that under German laAV you Avill not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I Avish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf Avith respect to libel or slan- 
der proceedings Avhich may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. You Avill be SAvorn. 

Do you solemnly sAvear by God the Almighty that, according to your 
best knoAvledge, you Avill tell the truth, the Avhole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. A1J.GAYER. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 

Mr. Alixiayer. ErAvin Allgayer. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified Avith the German armed forces 
at any time ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes, I Avas. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever serve Avith the German forces on the Rus- 
sian front in the Smolensk area ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes, I did, 

Mr. Flood. What Avas the name and description of your unit and 
when did you go to Smolensk ? 

Mr. Allgayer. It Avas the Fifth Company of the Eighth Railroad 
Engineer Regiment. 

Mr. Flood. After you advanced from Bialistok in the direction of 
Smolensk, A\diat Avere your duties that took you into Smolensk? 

Mr. Allgayer. I, being a private, first class, belonged to a company 
troop of the company. 

Mr. Flood. Were you a billeting officer? 

Mr. Allgayer. No, I Avas not. I Avas a private, first class. I Avas not 
an officer. 



1506 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. I know, but were you engaged in searching for billets 
in tlie Smolensk area for your outfit ? 

Mr. Allgayek. Yes, I did that. 

Mr. Flood. When did you get into Smolensk first? 

Mr. Allgayer. It was definitely in the beginning of August 1941. I 
am convinced it was either the 1st or 2d of August. 

]Mr. Flood. How soon after the combat or first line troops moved 
out did you get into Smolensk? How many days, about? 

Mr. Allgayer. Judging from what I have been able to learn, at that 
time, it must have happened several days later. 

Mr, Flood. Was the front moving very fast forward about that 
time ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes, the front line was moving forward at a fast 
pace. 

Mr. Flood. Tell us in your own words about your arrival in Smo- 
lensk, your search around the Smolensk area for billets, and when 
you first got to the forest known as Katyn ? 

Mr. Allgayer. At that time, I and several buddies of mine traveled- 
down to Smolensk, traveling along a highway leading through the 
Katyn woods. We traveled along that highway down to Smolensk. I 
still clearly remember that there were constantly serious traffic jams 
by reason of the fast movement forward of the front line and the 
ensuing movement of troops. I found Smolensk was pretty heavily 
destroyed. Only a very few buildings were still intact. They were, 
however, not fit for billeting purposes. Subsequently, we traveled back 
from Smolensk, back to the woods. I still have the impression that 
it was at a distance of about 10 to 15 kilometers from Smolensk. 
That's only an approximation. Tliat is a figure which I still remember. 
Tlien I discovered, on the left-hand side of the road, a fence which was 
either painted white or light blue, as it is customary in Russia. Well, 
there was an entrance in the fence and we, being servicemen, sur- 
mised that where there is a fence there will also be some building 
nearby behind it. Subsequently, we went through this gate and we 
traveled along a path. I remember it was a path or dirt road. It was 
not a highway — no proper road. This path was winding through 
tlie woods for quite some distance until, eventually, it ended by a 
building. 

This building was entirely empty and it struck us as peculiar. It 
was of a type that was not common in Russia. It was partly con- 
structed of timber and partly of bricks. One portion of the build- 
ing had two stories. If I was facing the building, the left-hand 
portion had two stories. The right-hand portion contained garages, 
and, if I correctly remember it, the foundations of the garage were 
walled in. What particularly attracted my attention was a piano in 
the house because that's an object very infrequently found in Russia. 

Subsequently, we put up our billets there. However, it occurred to 
us that the space would not be sufficient to billet an entire company, 
so, subsequently, we used the garages to have sufficient billeting pur- 
poses. At the time of our arrival, it was in summer and it was very 
hot. Therefore, we soldiers found it very fortunate that we had been 
billeted on the banks of the River Dnieper. We could very properly 
use these facilities for bathing purposes. 

Mr. Flood. How long did your outfit stay there? 

Mr. Allgayer. To the best of my recollection, about 3 weeks. 



« 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1507 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember about the date you moved out of 
there ? 

Mr. Allgayer. No, I could not accurately indicate that. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know what part of the month? 

Mr. Allgayer. I take it it was some time toward the end of the 
month. 

Mr. Flood. Of what month ? 

Mr. Allgayer. August. 

Mr. Flood. Was there any evidence of any German troops having 
been in residence in this castle or this building for any length of time 
when you got there — Germans ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Normally, if you move into billets which had previ- 
ously been occupied by troops, you are apt to discover remains left 
behind, such as empty cigarette packages or signs or posters contain- 
ing instructions. We didn't find any such indications in that building. 
However, I am not in a position to say there had been no German 
troops there a few days prior to our arrival in this building. 

Mr. Flood. This outfit moved into this building right on the heels 
of the advancing German troops? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. All the time your outfit was there, did you see any 
Polish prisoners of any kind in the area ? 

Mr. Allgayer. No, I did not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see any Polish officers or Polish prisoners of 
any kind working on the highway ? 

Sir. Allgayer. Are you referring to the vicinity of Katyn? 

Mr. Flood. In the vicinity of your heaquarters around the wood ? 

Mr. Allgayer. No, I did not. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have any conversations with any Russians who 
lived in the area — men or women? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes, I did. I have a vague and faint recollection 
only of a woman calling upon us on one occasion asking whether 
she could get authority to exhume her husband. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever hear any conversations that took place 
between any of your comrades or the Russians or did you have any 
conversations with Russians in which tliey talked about Poles being 
shot in the area ? 

Mr. Allgayer. I do not recall anyone having mentioned that those 
men had been Polish. However, I do recall a Russian, whose quarters, 
sort of a log cabin, was situated close near the highway, having told 
us servicemen upon one occasion that some people had been shot there. 

Mr. Flood. Did he say when or about when ? 

Mr. Allgayer. It is possible he said so. However, I do not re- 
member it. 

Mr. Flood. Did you know anything about the graves at Katyn 
Forest or did you see any graves at Katyn Forest during the time you 
were there ? 

Mr. Allgayer. No ; I neither saw the graves nor did I know any- 
thing about the graves at that time. 

Mr. Flood. If there had been any shooting by Germans in the area 
during the time you were there, wouldn't you have known about it 
since you were right nearby? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes, we would have had to know it. 



1508 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. What were the sanitary conditions around your head- 
quarters, so far as general health and sanitary conditions were con- 
cerned ? Any trouble ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes. We had a lot of trouble, such trouble as we 
had nowhere and at no time in Kussia. 

Mr. Flood. Wivdt kind of troubled 

Mr. Allgayer. The majority of the company was taken ill with 
dysentery. 

Mr. Flood. Anything else ? 

Mr. Allgayer. No. 

Mr. PYoOD. Did you have any trouble with insects? 

Mr. Alujayer. Oh, yes. We had an incredible number of insects 
which I believe w^as predicated upon the hot season of the year. 

Mr. Flood. What did the people around there, that is, your com- 
rades, think caused this dysentery to such a large extent in your unit? 

Mr. Alujayer. Well, it was an enigma to us. We were questioning 
what might be the reason. First, we believed it might be the water. 
Subsequently, we believed our meat rations or the bread might have 
been spoiled. However, all our guesswork got us nowhere and even 
by the medical investigation of our doctor we got no results. 

Mr. Flood. Did you liave any trouble with flies? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes, we had an awful lot of trouble from flies, and 
I believe that was the reason why the company was moved out of this 
region so fast. 

Mr. Flood. But nobody said anything to you about graves or thou- 
sands of men being murdered in the Katyn Forest right near your 
headquarters ? 

Mr. Allgayer. No. 

^ir. Flood. Did you hear of any orders given to your headquarters 
to shoot any prisoners in the area ? 

Mr. Allgayer. This would have been something incredible at that 
time. 

Mr. Flood. Did your unit take part in the execution of several 
thousand Polish ofhcers in the Katyn woods ? 

Mr. Allgayer. Our only task was to maintain and repair the rail- 
road line running through Smolensk and we had no other tasks 
whatever. 

Mr. Flood. Did you take part in any executions or did your unit? 

Mr. Allgayer. No. 

Mr. Flood. Could any such executions have taken place within a 
thousand meters of j^our headquarters without your knowing about it, 
or hearing about it? 

Mr. ALL(iAYER. That is utterly impossible. 

Mr. Flood. Did you make any observations with reference to any 
oi)en spaces in the forests or the woods around your headquarters^ 
Did you notice any? 

Mr. Allgayer. Yes; I had a vague recollection of one sucli clearing. 
It hapi^ened because I and one of my buddies were walking througli 
the woods and we came to such a clearing, and, actually, Ave couldn't 
see any ivason why there should be a clearing right in the middle of a 
forest. 

Ml". Flood. Was that a subject of conversation among the troops 
in your outfit ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1509 

Mr. Allgayer. Well, vre soldiers just briefly discussed the mere 
fact. However, we did not put any importance on this fact. 

Mr. PYooD. What were the general regulations, as far as you knew 
or saw, as far as the Wehrmacht was concerned, in its treatment of 
Russian prisoners in the area of Smolensk-Katyn when you were 
there ? 

Mr. Allgayer. At that time n.o Russian POW's had yet been as- 
si<rned as laborers to our maintenance unit, and therefore I know 
nothing about the treatment of Russian POW's. 

Mr. Flood. That is all. 

Chaiinian Maddex. We wish to thank you for coming here to testify 
today. 

]\Ir. Flood. Karl Plerrmann. 

TESTIMONY OF KARL HERRMANN, KARLSRUHE/BADEN, GERMANY 
(THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, ARTURS R. MOSTNI) 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Herrmann, I might ask you, do you have 
any objections to being photographed? 

Mr. Herrmann. I would rather not. 

Chairman Madden. Very well. 

I will read a statement to you, Mr. Herrmann. 

Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your attention to the fact 
that under German law^ you will not be liable for slander or libel, 
either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for anything you may say 
in your testimony; so long as you tell the truth. At the same time, 
I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of the 
United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any 
responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander pro- 
ceedings which may arise as the result of your testimony. 

Did you understand that? 

Mr. Herrmann. Yes; I did. 

Chairman Madden. Raise your right hand and be sworn. 

Do you swear by God the Almighty that, according to your best 
knowledge, you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Herrmann. Yes ; I sw^ear by God. 

Chairman Madden. Please give your name and address. 

Mr. Herrmann. Karl Herrmann, 35-A Louisenstrasse, Karlsruhe/ 
Baden. 

]\Ir. Flood. What is your name ? 

Mr. Herrmann. Karl Herrmann. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever identified with the German armed forces? 

Mr. Heremann. Yes; I was a member of the security police. 

Mr. Flood. Where were you stationed in 1943 and 11)4:5 ? 

Mr. Herrmann. In 1943 I w^as at Lemberg and Krakow. 

Mr. Flood. As a member of the security forces, what were your 
duties? 

Mr. Herrmann. Toward the end I was serving with the adminis- 
tration of the security forces in Krakow in my capacity as adminis- 
trator of the material depot. 

Mr. Flood. What year was that ? 

Mr. Herrmann. In 1944 and 1945, until the end and the escape. 



1510 THE KATYN" FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Had yon ever heard of the Katyn massacres in any way 
by that time? 

Mr. Herrmann. Yes; I had heard about it for the simi^le reason 
that we, in our institute, had documents in our safekeeping. 

Mr. Flood. What institute? 

Mr, Herrmann. The Institute for Forensic Medicine in Krakow. 

Mr. Flood. Who was the chief of that institute ? 

Mr. Herrmann. Dr. Beck. 

Mr. Flood. What connection, if any, did you yourself have, in 
your capacity as a member of the security forces, with the Polish 
documents ? 

]Mr. Herrmann. I had no proximate connection ; all this ensued only 
later on, in 1945. 

Mr. Flood. Tell us what happened in 1945, as far as you recall, with 
reference to the transportation of these documents taken from your 
institute, that you described, in any way, from Krakow. 

Mr. Herrmann. Well, I will have to elaborate on that a little, to 
some extent. As I indicated before these documents had been in safe- 
keepino; with the institute. 

Mr. Flood. Go ahead. 

Mr. Herrmann. After, however, we found out the guerrillas at- 
tacked the storage place — and I cannot say whether these guerrillas 
were Bolshevik guerrillas or belonged to the Polish underground — it 
was determined to take these documents to Breslau. On the 18th of 
January 1945, we were forced to flee from Krakow, and we were 
traveling via Breslau. In Breslau we were taken to emergency billets, 
where we were waiting for orders indicating to us where we were 
supposed to move subsequently. There I received an order to go and 
pick up the documents at the institute of anatomy and to haul the 
documents on a postal truck to the loading platform at a railroad 
depot. There was a train standing at the depot ready to take the 
members of the government somewhere else. It was the last train 
scheduled to leave the town, and we were assigned one coach of this 
train. 

We traveled on that train to Dresden, and that is where the guard, 
assignment of the boxes began. 

Incidentally, I wish to emphasize that I do not know whether there 
wei'e all of the documents. There were 16 boxes of documents. 

Mr. Flood. How big was each box ? 

Mr. Herrmann. They were 1 meter in length and from about 30 to 
S5 centimeters hi height. 

Mr. Flood. What were they made of? 

Mr. Herrmann. Wood. 

Mr. Flood. How were they labeled, if you remember? 

Mr. Herrmann. They weren't — there weren't any labels, practi- 
cally; there was only a sign on it, "Reichssicherheitshauptamt." 

Mr. Flood. What does that mean ? Translate it. 

Mr. Herrmann. Head Office of the Reich Security Office. 

Mr. Flood. These boxes were all placed in that coach on that train, 
were they ? 

Mr. Herrmann. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. You saw that yourself? 

Ml'. Herrmann. Yes. Well, we lent a hand in doing so. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ride on the train with the boxes? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1511 

Mr. Herrmann. Yes, in the very same coach. 

Mr. Flood. To where ? 

Mr. Herrmann. To Dresden. 

Mr. Flood. What happened when you got to Dresden ? 

Mr. Herrmann. The boxes were unloaded at a loading platform 
at Dresden-Neustadt. 

Mr. Flood. What happened then, when you took them off at 
Dresden ? 

Mr. Herrmann. Gestapo headquarters were notified to send us a 
truck. Originally, as far as I heard, the boxes were supposed to pro- 
ceed straight to Berlin. In the meantime, however, the Russians 
had made a forced advance, so it was no longer feasible to take the 
boxes, as originally intended, to Berlin. The boxes were laden on 
a truck and taken to Radebeul. 

Mr. Flood. When and where was the last time you saw these boxes ? 

Mr. Herrmann. Well, I cannot indicate an accurate date. It might 
have been, however, toward the end of February. 

Mr. Flood. What year ? 

Mr. Herrmann. 1945. 

Mr. Flood. "VVliere was the last place you saw them ? 

Mr. Herrmann. In Radebeul. 

Mr. Flood. What town ? 

Mr. Herrmann. That is near Dresden. 

Mr. Flood. That is all. 

Mr. Herrmann. It is between Dresden and Meissen. 

Chairman Madden. We wish to thank you for coming here and 
testifying today. 

Dr. Beck. Dr. Werner Beck. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. WERNER BECK, HAMBURG, GERMANY 
(THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, ARTHUR R. MOSTNI) 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, do you have any objections to being 
photographed ? 

Dr. Beck. No ; I do not. 

Chairman Madden. Very well, no objections. 

Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your attention to the 
fact that under German law you will not be liable for slander or 
libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for anything you 
may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the same 
time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of 
the United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any 
responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander pro- 
ceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Did you understand that? 

Dr. Beck. Yes ; I did. 

Chairman Madden. Now, Doctor, stand and be sworn. 

Do you swear by God the Almighty that you will, according to 
the best of your knowledge, tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth- 
ing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Dr. Beck. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 

Dr. Beck. Beck, Werner. 

93744— 52— pt. 5 19 



1512 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever, at any time, identified with the former- 
German Government? 

Dr. Beck. Yes; I was serving with the Ministry of the Interior. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever, in your official capacity, have occasion to. 
serve in Poland in any way ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes; I did. ' 

Mr. Fi>ooD. Will you oive us the title of your position in Poland 
and a short dcvscription of your duties there? 

Dr. Beck. I was director of the Institute of Forensic Medicine and 
of Scientific Criminology. 

Mr. Flood. Will you give us the German name of that institute^ 
and your title ? 

Dr. Beck. Director of the State Institute for Forensic Medicine 
in the General Gouvernment. 

Mr. Flood. And where was that located ? 

Dr. Beck. At Krakow. 

Mr. Flood. In 1943, of course, you heard of the Katyn massacre? 

Dr. Beck. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. When in 1943 had vou heard of the Katyn massacre? 

Dr. Beck. In April of 1943. 

Mr. Flood. Where A^ere you at that time? 

Dr. Beck. In Krakow. 

Mr. Flood. Doing what? 

Dr. Beck. In my capacity as director of the Institute of Forensic 
Medicine. 

Mr. Flood. By that time j-ou had heard of the report of the Inter- 
national Commission of Scientists and their protocol of April 30, 1943^ 
with reference to their findings at Katyn? 

Dr. Beck. Yes; I had, for the simple reason that the leader of the 
German Commission, Professor Buhtz, had been my chief at Breslau 
University. 

Mr. Flood. That is the Dr. Buhtz who Avas cooperating with the 
International Commission of Scientists at that time; is that correct? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know whether or not the Polish Red Cross was 
in any way connected Avith the exhumations at Katyn? 

Dr. Beck. Yes : I do. 

Mr. Flood. Did any officials of the Polish Red Cross get in touch 
with you after the protocol of the international scientists had been 
signed ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Who, when, where, and why ? 

Dr. Beck. To the best of my recollection it was the president of 
the Polish Red Cross, Dr. Czinski. 

Mr. Flood. Wlien was this? 

Dr. Beck. Sometime in the first days of May of 1943. 

Mr. Flood. Where did it take place, and why did they get in touch 
with you? 

Dr. Beck. The office of the president of the Polish Red Cross was 
located at Warsaw. The president came to Krakow and requested 
me to place all these auxiliary personnel at his disposal in order 
to perfect the exhumation. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1513 

I wisli to indicate that after the German Commission and the In- 
ternational Commission had terminated their activities, the entire 
exhumations ^\el^e turned over to the Pohsh Red Cross. 

Mv. Flood. Did you cooperate with and grant the request of the 
president of the Polish Ked Cross? 

Dr. Beck. Yes, I did. in every way. 

]\Ir. Flood. Did you name any of your associates from your insti- 
tute to assist? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. I did. 

Mr. Flood. Will you name them? 

Dr. Beck. Those were the Polish doctors : Dr. Praglowski ; then Dr. 
"Wodzinski, hoth from Krakow : Lecturer Dr. Felz, as well as Dr. 
Manczarski, hoth from tlie subsidiary of my institute at Warsaw. 
In addition, there were a certain number of assistants for the 
dissections. 

Mr. Flood. Did you instruct all of these people to work under the 
su])ervision of the Polish Red Cross? 

Dr. Beck. Yes, I did. 

^Ir. Flood. Did you ever have any complaints from the Polish Red 
Cross that these people refused to cooperate, or would not work with 
them? 

Dr. Beck. No, I did not. 

Mr. Flood. After the exhumations were completed, in the summer 
of 194;>, what happened? 

Dr. Beck. All of the material discovered on the dead bodies, such 
as notebooks, passports, personal papers, personal property such as 
rings, bracelets, watches, wallets containing banknotes of various 
currencies and denominations, such as Polish, Russian, and American 
currencies — all of that collected material was taken to my institute 
at Krakow. 

Mr. Flood. What Avas your procedure with reference to these 
documents and tliese personal belongings of the dead Polish officers? 
How did you take care of them? 

Dr. Beck. First I wish to state that all of these objects were sent 
to Krakow by the Polish Red Cross in 14 boxes. The boxes were 
locked and I was handed the keys. Subsequently, and upon the 
request of the president of the Polish Red Cross at Warsaw, Dr. 
Czinski, I turned all of the objects over to the chemical department 
of mv institute. In charge of the chemical department was Lecturer 
Dr. Robel. 

Mr. Flood. Why Avere they turned over to the chemical section? 

Dr. Beck. We had been requested to take those documents, which 
had been spoiled by a formation of decomposition wax, to a chemical 
laboratory and to make them again discernible and readable. 

Mr. Flood. By "decomposition wax" you mean the result of the 
decomposition of the bodies found in the graves? 

Dr. Beck. Yes ; that is correct. 

]Mr. Flood. Do you have the names of the persons at your chemical 
division of the institute under Dr. Robel who were concerned with 
this matter? 

Dr. Beck. Yes, I do. 

jNIr. Flood. Will vou place those in the record, please? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. ' 



1514 THE ICATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Spelling them, please, for the reporter. 

Dr. Beck. Dr. Senlvowska, a woman; Magistra Cholewinski; Dr. 
Szwed ; lecturer Dr. Ackermannowna ; and Dr. Paszkowska. 

Mr. Flood. You turned over all of the documents that you had, the 
boxes and the keys that were in your possession, to the chemical in- 
stitute, is that right ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes, and I handed the keys to the man in charge of my 
chemical section, a Polish doctor. Dr. Robel. 

Mr. Flood. All right. What transpired? 

Dr. Beck. During the course of this extensive work, extending over 
a series of months, there was a search for identification mai'ks by 
which those documents might have been identified. For instance, at 
first we had to clean all of the objects, and subsequently we photo- 
graphed them. Subsequently we applied chemical treatment to all 
of the documents, such as notebooks, passports, all written matter, 
and particularly as to letters, so as to make the faded writing, either 
pencil or ink writing, again legible. These jobs were frequently very 
tedious and extensive, and were not successful in all events. 

In those instances, however, when we succeeded in making the 
writing legible again, we made photostatic copies of the documents, 
and subsequently we notified the members of the families of the 
killed Polish officers, as far as I had been able to ascertain them from 
the letters and the senders indicated on the letters. 

Mr. Flood. "Wliat method did you use for keeping the items, docu- 
ments, and personal belongings, of each separate body separate from 
the others ? 

Dr. Beck. The appropriate measures had already been taken at the 
place of the exhumations. The bodies were taken out of the graves 
one at a time, in sequence. Each body was individually searched 
for personal property and belongings, and after discovery the be- 
longings in each instance were placed in a separate pouch, and sub- 
sequently, when the examinations were made, each pouch was pro- 
duced individually and the contents of each pouch were treated and 
examined individually. 

Mr. Dondero. By "pouch" do you mean that they were placed in a 
large envelope ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes ; I mean an envelope. 

Mr. Flood. Did you keep in touch with these proceedings all the time 
that these matters were going through processing in your institute? 

Dr. Beck. In the interests of the Polish Bed Cross I daily super- 
vised that work. 

Mr. Flood. The term "doctor" is very common around here, ^^riiat 
kind of a doctor are you ? 

Dr. Beck. A doctor of medicine. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever have occasion in your official capacity, in 
view of the fact that you were a doctor of medicine, to issue any death 
certificates in connection with this matter? 

Dr. Beck. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Now, Doctor, I direct your attention to the change of the 
Eastern Front, insofar as the military campaigns were concerned, in 
June and July of 1944, and ask you in what way the change in the 
military situation had anything to do with these documents and your 
work ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1515 

Dr. Beck. In the year 1944 I received an order by the commander 
of the security police to destroy the documents. 

Mr. Flood. The commander of the security police, where ? 

Dr. Beck. At Krakow. The commander of security police for the 
entire general government. 

Mr. Flood. That is the German occupation government? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. All right. Wliat were the instructions ? 

Dr. Beck. It was a written instruction saying that all of the kept 
documents, including documents and personal property, originating 
from Katyn should be destroyed altogether in one lump, lest they fall 
into the hands of the Russians. 

Mr. Flood. What was your reaction and that of your associates, and 
what did you do about it ? 

Dr. Beck. I refused to comply with those orders, on the following 
grounds : 

It was my position that these documents, and particularly as to the 
written instruments, should be kept for the benefit of the Polish Na- 
tion, and particularly so for reasons in connection with any possible 
civil actions or legal actions. 

At that time I was approached by Count Ronicker, chief of the Pol- 
ish welfare organization, wliich was a sort of liaison organization be- 
tween the Polish Nation and the German occupation government, as 
well as by the director of the Academy of Fine Arts, Dr. Pronaskou, 
with a request to do all I could and see to it that these documents would 
not be destroyed. 

To begin with, we negotiated with the man in charge of the chemical 
department. Dr. Robel, and we made up our minds to distribute those 
documents amongst the reliable Poles and subsequently report to the 
security police that the destruction of the documents had been con- 
cluded. This plan, however, could not be effected because such a stench 
emanated from these documents that they could not be kept in private 
homes. 

Eventually, after plenty of negotiations with the security police, and 
German Government agencies in the general government, I succeeded 
in receiving a permit to transfer these documents further west, to wit, 
to Breslau. In Breslau those boxes were placed in the Anatomical In- 
stitute, in view of the stench emanating also from these boxes. 

ISIr. Flood. How many boxes, and how were they marked ? 

Dr. Beck. There were 14 boxes, and there were larger inscriptions in 
black letters on them, "Institute Krakow Library." 

Mr. Flood, Of what were the boxes made ? 

Dr. Beck. Out of stout lumber, with lids. There were no padlocks, 
but just normal locks were fitted in the boxes. 

Mr. Flood. What was the size of the boxes ? 

Dr. Beck. I would estimate the size of the boxes as 1 meter and 
50 in length, 70 centimeters in height, and about 60 centimeters in 
width. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat was done with the boxes at the Anatomical Insti- 
tute at the University at Breslau ? . 

Dr. Beck. The boxes were kept in a large, separate room placed 
at our disposal by the then director of the Breslau University. 

Mr. Flood. And was any work done on them there ? 



1516 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Beck. Yes; the identification was continued. It "was done by 
myself and Dr. Robel, the man in charge of my chemical depart- 
ment, going to Breslau time and again. We always received the 
finished, complete work, and we took out of the boxes new envelopes 
on which subsequent work was supposed to be done. 

Mr. Flood. Now, in January of 1945, when the Germans evacuated 
Krakow, what did you do ? 

Dr. Beck. I was one of the last to leave Krakow, together with the 
officers of my administration. To begin with, we traveled to Breslau, 
and, once there, the first thing I took care of were the documents, 
these original documents, from Katyn. By reason of the further move- 
ment of the front line I had to make up my mind to transfer the 
boxes from Breslau. 

We brought the boxes to Dresden. While we were standing guard 
over them in Dresden I contacted the police agencies in order to ob- 
tain ]iro]>er and fitting storage room. However. I did not get any 
cooperation from the police agency, with one exception, that I was 
given one truck in order to haul the documents away. I then brought 
these original Katyn documents to a suburb of Dresden, Radebeul. 

Mr. Flood. Where did you place them there? 

Dr. Beck. At first they were placed in a private household, and 
subsequently, because the stench was too penetrant, they were placed 
in a storage room of the railroad forwarding depot, or the railroad 
forwarding department. 

Mr. Flood. All right. Suppose you tell us what disposition yon 
tried to make of these documents, where you wanted to take tliem, 
and why you couldn't get them there. 

Dr. Beck. I intended to turn this collection of documents over to 
some agency of the International Red Cross. 

Mr. Flood. Wliere? 

Dr. Beck. According to my information, there was a single 
' agency of the International Red Cross in the vicinity, and that 
was in Prague. Prague, at that time, was a hospital city, and that 
is why there was an agency of the International Red Cross. No Ger- 
man agency placed a vehicle at my disjiosal in order to take the 
documents to Prague. Therefore, I at first attempted to travel to 
Prague myself in order to have these documents subsequentlv picked 
up by the International Red Cross. This happened in the first days 
of May 1945. By reason of the vicissitudes of war I was not in a 
position to contact the agencies of the International Red Cross. 

I then proceeded from Prague to Pilsen, after one specific road had 
been opened to traffic. I traA^eled thei-e witli the German Army. 
Pilsen had already been occupied by the United States Armed Forces. 
I then reported to some commanding officer, whose name I no longer 
know, and subsequently, after having told him my story, he gave me a 
pass to travel to Dresden. 

AVhile on my way to Dresden I learned that Dresden, in the mean- 
time, had been occu]>iod by the Russians, so I personally had no chance 
whatever to get into Dresden. 

I then ]>roceeded to the United States zone of occupation in Bavaria. 

Mr. Flood. When did vou enter the American zone? 

Dr. Bf.ck. In June of 1945. 

Mr. Flooi>. What disposition, if any, did you hear subsequently 
was made of the boxes that were at the railway station in Dresden? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1517 

Dr. Beck. The boxes had been burned immediately prior to the 
Russians moving in. 

Mr. Flood. By whom? 

Dr. Beck. By the railroad forwarding agent. 

Mr. Flood. Who told you that ? 

Dr. Beck. I myself had given this order. At that time we had quite 
•a clear picture of the development of the war. We still anticipated 
^nd hoped that the Americans would occupy Dresden. However, in 
order to cover all possibilities, I had given an order that should the 
Russians come and occupy Dresden, the boxes should be burned. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever receive any information from anybody 
in Dresden after the Russian occupation that your orders had been 
■carried out? 

Dr. Beck. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Now, the committee has been advised of the name of 
the ])erson who gave you that order, and of the repute and standing of 
that informant. We can understand why you may not want to tell 
us, but, if you wish to, we would be glad to have the name of the person 
for the record, although the committee is aware of it anyhow. That 
is up to you. 

Dr. Beck. For security reasons, and in the best interests of persons 
residing in the Russian zone who are connected with this business, 
I take it that it would be advisable not to mention or to divulge the 
name here in an open session. 

Mr. Flood. This same informant was in touch with you or gave you 
information in connection with efforts made by the Russian secret serv- 
ice in connection with these documents at Katyn, and later, when they 
thought they were in Dresden ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. The Russian secret police, by ways and means un- 
known to me, had learned of the storage place of these documents, or 
«f these boxes, and had made several searches of the house of my 
parents, who were residing near Dresden. Tlie Russians also traced 
the exact route of my flight up to the border of the Russian zone. The 
Russians searched the homes of all persons wlio sheltered me at that 
time, particularly so the houses of friends of mine. They lost track 
of me only at the zonal border. 

Mr. Flood. Was anything done to yonr family ? 

Dr. Beck. My mother had been incarcerated at Dresden for more 
than half a jeixv because the Russians wanted to learn my address. 

Mr. Flood. How old was she then ? 

Dr. Beck. Sixty-two years of age. 

Mr. Flood. How long was she in jail, if you know ? 

Dr. Beck. A bit more than 6 months. 

Mr. Flood. Whatever happened to the railroad agent that burned 
these things at the station, if you have heard? 

Dr. Beck. Yes ; he has been deported, and the members of his family, 
-even today, still don't know where he is. 

Mr. Flood. Dej^orted where and by whom ? 

Dr. Beck. By Russian police in those gray uniforms, with green 
bands around the caps ; Russian secret police. 

Mr. Flood. Why didn't you report these matters to the Nuremberg 
trials? 

Dr. Beck. I did not report it because I had to figure I would be 
automatically arrested by virtue of my official position, the major 



1518 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

position I had held with the occupation government in Poland, and 
I had to figure on being extradited to the Russians right away. At 
that time surrender or extradition took place, without proper court 
proceedings, by the simple request of one of these commissions, which 
went about scouring the camps. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, it has been testified before this commission by 
various witnesses upon various occasions that certain of these bodies 
of the Polish officers found in the graves at Katyn had their hands tied 
behind their backs with either rope or wire. Have you ever heard of 
that? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. I obtained current reports from my Polish col- 
laborators, who had been working on these exhumations, and it had 
been reported that numerous of those Polish officers found at Katyn 
had their hands tied behind their backs with string. I was familiar 
with the protocol of this International Commission of Scientists, which 
had arrived at the same finding. 

Subsequently, I requested my assistants to take the material used 
for the tying-up, and bring it to me. 

I formerly engaged in criminological scientific investigation of 
material used for strangulation purposes or for tying purposes, and 
that is why I have been surprised that this international commission 
of scientists had arrived at the finding that the string used for the 
tying of the hands of the Polish officers was made of Russian hemp. 
Subsequently I made a thorough examination of that strangulation 
Material, which I myself developed and published in 1947. My 
method has been repeatedly used ; for instance, by the supreme court 
of Massachusetts, file No. 13 N. E., 206-382. I made a thorough ex- 
amination of that material brought me, based upon my method, and 
I was in a position to determine and corroborate that that material 
was made of Russian hemp, and I was particularly in a position to 
positively determine that this material was not of German industrial 
manufacture. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In this institute that you were operating in Kra- 
kow, the various sections of that institute, with the exception of the 
serologic department and the department of identification of arms, 
were actually headed by Poles ; am I right in that ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And were these Polish doctors given a free hand 
to handle those departments ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You mentioned in your statement Dr. Marion 
Wodzinski. Do you remember him ? 

Dr. Beck. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he ever ask you to be relieved of his duties 
in that department that he headed ? 

Dr. Beck. No. However, I wish to add that, to the best of my 
recollection. Dr. Wodzinski left sometime before Christmas of 19M 
and did not return. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he leave voluntarily ? 

Dr. Beck. Voluntarily. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is all. 

Chairman Madden. We wish to thank you for coming here and 
testifying today, doctor. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1519 

Mr. Flood. Mr. Chairman, I would like to recall General Ober- 
haeuser. 

Chairman Madden. Very well. 

PUKTHER TESTIMONY OF GEN. EUGEN OBERHAETJSEIl (THROUGH 
INTERPRETER MOSTNI) 

Mr. Flood. General, will you sit down, please ? 

You testified the other day to some extent before the committee. 
At that time you were requested by the committee to prepare a map, 
a reproduction of a map, from which you testified at that time. Do 
you have such a map with you today ? 

General Oberhaeuser. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Flood. Would you let me have it, please? 

(The witness produced a document.) 

I now ask the stenographer to mark this as "Exhibit 74". 

(The document referred to was marked for identification as "Ex- 
hibit 74" and follows :) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 




THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1521 

Mr. Flood. I now sliow tlie witness exhibit No. 74 and ask him 
whether or not that is the map he has been requested to produce and 
has now just brought to the committee? 

General Oberiiaeuser. Yes ; it is. 

Mr. Flood. I offer that map in evidence. 

Chairman Madden. Thank you, GeneraL 

The committee will now recess until 2 : 30, because of the lateness of 
the hour, instead of 2. 

(Whereu])on. at 1 : 10 p. m., the conmiittee recessed, to reconvene at 
2:30p. UL) 

ArTERNOON SESSION 

(The connnittee reconvened at 2 : 30 p. m.) 

Chairman Madden. The committee W'ill come to order, please. 
The committee wants to recall Colonel Ahrens for tlie purpose of 
identifying certain photographs. 

FURTHEE TESTIMONY OF COL. FRIELIIICH AHRENS (THROUGH 
INTERPRETER MOSTNI) 

Chairman Madden. Just be seated. Colonel. 

Mr. Flood. You are the Colonel Ahrens who testified previously 
this weelv in connection with this matter; is that so? 

Colonel Aiirens. Yes ; it is. 

Mr. Flood. At that time, the committee suggested that if you had 
any additional photographs in 3'our possession w^e would appreciate it 
if you brought theuL 

ColoFiel Aiirens Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Or if there were any letters in your possession or the 
possession of your wife that had been addressed to you at your address 
in (rcrmany, in Saxony, before you Avere transferred to Smolensk. 

Colonel Aiirens. Yes. 

]\Ir. Flood. Will you let me see those })hotographs, please ? 

(The witness produced several photographs.) 

Mr. Flood. Will you show these to the stenographer and have 
these photographs marked for identification as exhibits To, 76, 77, 78, 
79, and 80. 

(The photographs referred to were marked for identification as 
exhiluts 75 through 80.) 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness the exhibits 75 through 80, as 
indicated, and ask the interpreter to read from the marked exhibit 
tlie number of that exhibit and ask the witness in seriatum, one by one, 
to tell us what each picture is and who are the persons on each photo- 
graph. 

Mr. MosTNi. Exhibit 75. 

(The exhibit referred to, previousl}' marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 75," follows:) 



1522 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 75 




Arrival of International Commission at Katyn. 

Colonel Ahrens. This picture indicates the arrival of the panel of 
international experts of forensic medicine in April of 1943. The pic- 
ture was taken in front of the so-called Dnieper Castle. It depicts 
Surgeon General Dr. Holm; his adjutant, Lieutenant Hodt, Avhose 
present address I also indicated, as well as myself. I am just about in- 
viting this panel to have breakfast with me. 

Part of this panel of international experts is not visible on the pic- 
ture because they are obstructed by one of the guests. 

Mr.MosTNi. Exhibit 76. 

(The exhibit referred to, previously marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 76," follows:) 



THE KATYN FOREST MA&SACRE 
Exhibit 76 



1523 




Colonel Ahrens greets medical experts. 

Colonel Ahrens. This picture also indicates the arrival of this in- 
ternational panel of experts. I am just greeting the gentlemen. 

The picture depicts as follows, from right to left : the female Ger- 
man doctor who had been mentioned here yesterday, who was also a 
member of the committee. I do not know the next person on the pic- 
ture. The third person, however, is that of Dr. Tramsen, the Danish 
doctor who testified here yesterday ; then Dr. Zietz, who testified sub- 
sequently ; Surgeon General Dr. Holm, and my self. 

I cannot identify certain of the gentlemen depicted on this photo- 
graph who are wearing German uniforms. 

Mr. Flood. Was exhibit 76 taken at the Dnieper Castle, your head- 
quarters ? 

Colonel Ahre'ns. Yes; on the very same place, in front of the 
Dnieper Castle, also in April of 1943 — as has been noted on the reverse 
of the picture. 

Mr.MosTNi. Exhibit 77. 

(The exhibit referred to, previously marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 77," was subsequently withdrawn to protect the identity of 
the individual photographed. See below. ) 

Colonel Ahrens. This picture indicates the Russian keeper of bees, 
who has been mentioned in my testimony. 

Mr. Flood. By the Russian keeper of bees, do you mean the Russian 
couple living in the area of the Katyn woods and your headquarters, 
who discussed with you certain shootings that took place in that area 
some time previously ? Is that it ? 



1524 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Colonel Ahrens. Yes; that is correct. That is the couple in qiios- 
tion. This picture, however, indicates the husband only. Here he 
stands between General Oberhaeuser and m3^self , 

Mr. Flood. Is that the General Oberhaeuser who testified yesterday 
and today ? 

Colonel Ahrens. That is the same General Oberhaeuser who was my 
superior then and there. 

J\Ir. Flood. What is the answer to my question ^ 

Colonel Ahrens, It is the same General Oberhaeuser who testified 
yesterday. 

The name of the keeper of bees is noted on the reverse of the picture. 
I would prefer, however, not to read it aloud here. 

Mr. PYooD. All right, withdraw^ exhibit 77. 

Mr. INfosTNi. Exhibit 78. 

(The exhibit referred to ,previously mai-ked for identification as 
"Exhibit 78," follows:) 

Exhibit 78 





Colonel Ahrens talking to Russian bee keeper. 

Colonel Ahrens. This picture indicates the very same persons, the 
keeper of bees. General Oberhaeuser and myself. 

Mr. Flood. Then you do not want that one in, either, do you ? 

Colonel Ahrens. This picture may be included because it does not 
contain any name. 

Mr. Flood. Very well. 

Mr. MosTNL Exhibit 79. 

(The exhibit referred to, previously marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 79," follows:) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 79 



1525 




Dnieper Castle. 

Colonel Ahrens. Exhibit 79 indicates a view of the Dnieper Castle, 
seen from the river side. 

Mr. MosTNi. Exhibit 80. 

(The exhibit referred to, previously marked for identification as 
"Exhibit 80," follows:) 



1526 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 80 





Dnieper Castle, east side view. 

Colonel Ahrens. Exhibit 80 is an east side view of the same castle. 
The building is camouflaged by small trees and depicts in particular 
the economic annexes to the building. 

I had an opportunity to discover several cards or letters which can 
prove and corroborate that I have been living at Haale from July 
through November of 1941. 

Mr. Flood. Will you let me have them, please? 

(The witness produced some documents.) 

Mr. Flood. I would like to have the stenographer mark the envelope 
as exhibit 81. 

(The document referred to was marked for identification as "Exhibit. 
81" and follows, together with its contents :) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1527 



Exhibit 81 






Envelope addressed to Colonel Ahiens in Halle, November 15, 1941. 



93744— 52— pt. 5 20 



1528 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Letter addressed to Colonel Alirons in Ilalle, November 11, 1941. 



I 



.THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1529 



Letter — Continued." 



1530 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Letter — Continued. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1531 



* f^ yS^XySO** 



Letter — Continued. 



1532 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



V f i / 




(C^ ?r. 



•g'i> 



S.£. 



rostcard to Colonel Alliens in Halle, October 23, 1941. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1533 



Message on reverse side of postcard. 



1534 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. I now show the witness three documents, an envelope 
containing two pieces of a letter, and ask him if they are the envelope 
and letter he has described as being evidence of his residence in 
Germany between July and November 1941 ? 

Colonel Ahrens. Yes. However, I shall endeavor to present some 
more similar evidence. 

Mr. Flood. We will be glad to have it. 

Chairman Madden. Thank you, colonel. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. ROBERT KEMPNER, lANSDOWNE, PA. 

Chairman Madden. Robert Kempner. 

Does it make any difference to you whether you are photographed, 
or not? 

Dr. Kempner. I have no objection. 

Chairman Madden. Give the reporter your name and address Mr. 
Kempner. 

Dr. IVEMPNER. Robert Kempner ; 112 Lansdowne Court, Lansdowne, 
Pa. 

Chairman Madden. Mr. Kempner, before you testify, it is our wish 
to invite your attention to the fact that, under German law, you will 
not be liable for slander or libel, either in civil or criminal proceedings, 
for anything you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the 
truth. At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither 
the Government of the United States nor the Congress of the United 
States assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel 
or slander proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand that? 

Dr. Kempner. I do. 

Chairman Madden. Now will you raise your right hand and be 
sworn ? 

Do you swear, by God the Almighty, that you will, according to 
your best knowledge, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, and not conceal anything ; so help you God ? 

Dr. Kempner, I swear. 

Chairman Madden. Proceed, Mr. Dondero. 

Mr. Dondero. How old a man are you ? 

Dr. I^MPNER. I am 52. 

Mr. Dondero. What is your business or profession ? 

Dr. Kempner. I am a lawyer and political scientist. 

Mr. Dondero. Wliere were you born ? 

Dr. Kempner. I am born in Freiburg, Germany. 

Mr. Dondero. When did you gi-aduate in the profession of the law ? 

Dr. Kempner. First in '22 and the second admission to the bar in 
1926. 

Mr. Dondero. Wliere ? 

Dr. Kempner. In Berlin. 

Mr. Dondero. Was that in 1923? 

Dr. Kempner. 1927. 

Mr. Dondero. Did you begin the practice of the law in Berlin, 
Germany ? 

Dr. Kempner. That is correct, Your Honor. 

Mr. Dondero. How long ? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1535 

Dr. Kempner. I started in 1922 after the first examination, and I 
ended in Berlin in 1934-35. 

Mr. DoNDERO. After 1935, did you continue to practice law ? 

Dr. Kempner. No. 

Mr. DoNDERO. What did you do ? 

Dr. Kempner. I taught in Italy and in France. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Did you lecture on law in the United States ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, Your Honor. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Where ? 

Dr. Kempner. In comparative law and international law and also 
in political science, I lectured at the University of Pennsylvania ; also 
in Michigan, in Ann Arbor. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Was that the University of Michigan ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, your Honor. 

Mr. DoNDERO. At Ann Arbor ? 

Dr. Kempner. At Ann Arbor. 

Mr. DoNDERo. How long ? 

Dr. Kempner. At West Point and various other schools. 

Mr. DoNDERO. On what subjects did you lecture at West Point? 

Dr. Kempner. Various times on German-Russian relations. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Do you understand that West Point is the Military 
Academy of the United States ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, Your Honor, that is the Military Academy of 
the United States. 

Mr. Dondero. How long did you lecture in the United States at the 
three places you named ? 

Dr. Kempner. I lectured at various schools and places between 1939 
and 1951. 

Mr. DoNDERO. All in the United States, or here in Europe as well ? 

Dr. Kempner. In the United States; also in Switzerland and also 
in Germany. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Wliere were you in 1939 ? 

Dr. Kempner. In France and in the United States. 

Mr. Dondero. Where were you during the recent war, or World 
War No. II ? 

Dr. Kempner. In the United States. 

Mr. DoNDERo. When did you come back to Europe? 

Dr. Kempner. The first time I came back after World War II was 
in July or the beginning of August 1945. 

Mr. Dondero. What was the purpose of your return to Europe ? 

Dr. Kempner. I was at that time connected with the War Depart- 
ment and was on loan to Justice Robert H. Jackson's prosecuting staff. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Do you mean to say that you were connected with 
the War Department of the United States ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, your Honor. 

Mr. Dondero. V/ere you connected at one time with the German 
Government ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, your Honor. 

Mr. Dondero. How long ? 

Dr. Kempner. Until 1933. 

Mr. Dondero. And in what capacity ? 

Dr. Kempner. I was senior Government counselor and of kind of 
general counsel of the German police system. 

Mr. Dondero. Was that in the further practice of the law ? 



1536 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Kj:mpner. The general counsel's job was a legal job with the pre- 
Hitlcr German Government. 

Mr. DoNDERO. And that would be before 1933, would it ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, your Honor. 

Mr. DoNDERO. J'ust what date did you become connected with the 
War Department of the United States, as far as you can remember? 

Dr. Kempner. I think I switched from the Department of Justice 
in Washington to the Department of War in the beginning of 1945. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Was that when you came back to Europe ? 

Dr. Kempner. That was before. 

Mr. DoNDERO. What is your recollection as to when you came back 
to Europe as a representative of the War Department in Washington? 

Dr. Kempner, It was in July or beginning of August 1945. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Who employed you at that time ? 

Dr. Kempner. I was on the pavroU of the Judge Advocate General. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Of the United States? 

Dr. Kempnp:r. Of the United States. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Did you take any part in tlie Nuremberg trials? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, Your Honor. 

Mr. Dondero. With whom were you associated there? 

Dr. Kempner. I was a member of the American prosecution staif. 

]Mr. Dondero. Who was the head of that staif ? 

Dr. Kempner. Justice Robert H. Jackson. 

Mr. Dondero. Then you were one of the assistant prosecutors; is 
that correct? 

Dr. Kempner. I was at that time one of the assistant prosecutors. 

iNIr. Dondero. And from either July or August 1945 you were then 
at the Xuremberg trials after that date, were you? 

Dr. KJEMPNER. That is correct, Your Honor. 

Mr. Dondero. How long? 

Dr. Kempner. I came for 30 days and remained until September- 
October 1949. 

Mr. Dondero. How many years and months would that be? 

Dr. Kempner. About 4 years and 3 or 4 months. 

Mr. Dondero. And while you were at Nuremberg did the subject 
of tlie Katyn massacre come before the court? 

Mr. Flood. Before you proceed with the matters of the Nuremberg 
trial itself, suppose you outline, just for the record, so we'll know 
what we're talking about later, briefly, but reasonably detailed, the 
agreements at the London meeting between the powers how the juris- 
diction of the counts decided upon were distributed among the na- 
tions; how the Katyn matter became identified as a count or an 
indictment; the differences in procedure at the Nuremberg trials as 
distinguished from the English common law as practiced in the United 
States of America, with particular reference to motions to quash 
indictments or motions for nol. pros. ; and in what manner were counts, 
fs wo say i^ the English common law. or charges, presented under 
the Nui'omberg ])ractice. 

Dr. Keisfpner. I nuist mention in the beginning that I was not 
present in London -when the agreement was made, and I am sure my 
superior at that time, Justice Robert II. Jackson, can tell this nuicli 
better than. I; but since I practiced this nuitter for 4I/2 years, I think 
I can answer the question of the committee. 



THE KATYN rORP:ST MASSACRE 1537 

After the London Af^reement of 1945, Avliich was backed by 20 or 
more Allied states, not only by the Big Four powers, but also by the 
Danish, by the Dutch, and all the other nations who were at war in 
Germany, a dividing line had to be made how to handle that big trial. 
The first Nuremberg trial, the so-called big international trial, had 
four counts, and these counts were more or less drawn up according 
to Anglo-Saxon law. There were certain continental points in it, but 
I don't want to go into that now. 

The first count was a common plan and conspiracy to commit 
crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. The 
second count was crimes against peace. The third count was called 
war crimes, and if I saw war crimes, I mean war crimes in the old 
conservative sense — violation of the Hague Convention, the (jeneva 
Convention, and similar. The fourth count was crimes against hu- 
manity. That was something new in the form. We old reactionary 
criminal lawyer's just called it murder and similar things. 

Mr. Maciirowicz. May I just interrupt there for the record so there 
will be no misunderstanding? Will you explain what you inean by 
reactionary criminal lawyers? 

Dr. Kempxer. The people who call nuirder just murder, but I will 
refrain from any antistatements. 

Now, the big battle started how shoidd these four counts be divided 
up among four nations that participated — the United States, the 
British, the French, and the Russians, and the division which came 
out was as follows, and I saw the very great outline. There were a lot 
of details which I think are of no interest to the particular problem 
here. Common plan and cons]iiracy (count 1) and crimes against 
peace (count II) were handled by the United States and the British. 

Chairman Madden. I didn't get that last. 

Dr. Kempner. Count I, cons])ii'acv, and count II. crimes against 
peace, were handled by the United States and by the British. Count 
III, war crimes, and count IV, crimes against humanity, were 
divided up according to geogra])hical regions or districts. The French 
handled the war crimes and crimes against humanity as far as AVestern 
Europe was concerned. They were, so to speak, sj^okesmen, the prose- 
cuting spokesmen, for the French, for the Dutch, for the Belgians, and 
other German occupied western territories. The Russians were in 
charge of war crimes and crimes against humanity which were alleg- 
edly committed in the eastern areas, and if I say eastern areas I mean 
the Soviet Union, I'oland, and at the time they handled also Yugo- 
slavia, and Bulgaiia, Czechoslovakia. 

Mr. Flood. Let me ask you as you best remember, and it is only 
your best recollection, was there any actual geographic demarcation 
line drawn or was it just a general distinction? 

Dr. Kempner. If I remember, it was a clear-cut agreement between 
the four nations at that time. 

Mr. Flood. I understand the agreement was clear-cut, but what 
I am trying to find out is was there any actual demarcation line actu- 
ally drawn from point A to point B geographically to make the dif- 
ference between the East and the West, as far as jurisdiction was 
concerned ? 

Dr. Kempner. I don't think so, Your Honor. I think it was kind 
of a general practice. Everybody handled it this way. 



1538 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. O'KoNSKi, In what was Germany proper before the war — who 
had the responsibility there, the Russians or the French ? 

Dr. Kempner. There the question of nationality played a role. 
If the victims were, for instance, Russian prisoners of war, the Rus- 
sians handled it, and if they were slave labor camps with French 
inmates, the French handled it. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Suppose the victims were Poles? Who handled 
them, the Russians or the French ? 

Dr. Kempner. Mostly the Russians, but since sometimes camps had 
French and Polish inmates and even Hungarian inmates ; then it was 
just up to the prosecutors who said maybe, "No, that's Russian stuff. 
Don't bother me with that." You know how that is in a trial. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Specifically then, under the circumstances which 
you know of as existing then, would the Katyn Forest incident come 
under the Russians or the French jurisdiction ? 

Dr. Kempner. The Katyn affair was a clear-cut Russian affair and 
was handled right from the beginning by the Russians. 

May I ask Your Honor very humbly to give me leading words 
what the first topic is? 

Mr. Flood. The first topic is have you, in your opinion, described 
for the committee how the different jurisdictions were set up? Are 
you satisfied with that? 

Dr. I^MpNER. I think I am, if you are. 

Mr. Flood. You have told us in what jurisdiction the Katyn mat- 
ter fell and why. Now, we are down finally to the difference in pro- 
cedure in Nurnberg and the English common-law system. 

Dr. Kempner. The first topic, the indictment. The Nurnberg indict- 
ment which was drawn up by all the four nations was pretty similarly 
done to an Anglo-Saxon indictment. However, I would say there 
were more particulars in the indictment than we would do it nor- 
mally in the United States. Not to the satisfaction of the defendants 
who wanted even more according to continental law. The indictment 
had four counts, as I already have said. In the rules and procedures 
of the court there was no provision, as we would say, to quash the 
indictment. We had no such provisions. However, there were in- 
stances where German counsel asked for something which might come 
pretty near to such a procedure. For instance, the lawyer of Goering, 
Mr. Stahmer, made a motion or, as he called it, an application, after 
the evidence in the Katyn case was heard, to move that this part 
should be stricken. 

Mr. Flood. You mean stricken from the record ? 

Dr. Kempner. As I remember, a kind of removing from the 
indictment. 

Mr. Machrowicz. May I ask at that point, was that before or after 
the testimony on that particular point of the indictment was offered? 

Dr. Kempner. This was after the witnesses on Katyn were heard. 

Mr. Flood. Now, what about a nol pros? 

Dr. KJEMPNER. That didn't exist. It practically never came up; 
something like that. 

Mr. Flood. So that a motion for a nol pros under the English 
common law system made either by one of the parties or the prose- 
cution did not exist under the Nurnberg procedure? 

Dr. Kempner. During the first trial it never came to my attention. 
Later we did it. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1539 

Mr. Flood. There's only one more part of that procedural question : 
In what manner were the counts presented or the charges brought 
before the Court or the Tribunal by each of the member nations ? 

Dr. Kempner. First, certain general questions were handled and 
presented to the court, based on trial briefs. Each trial brief was 
supplemented by a document book, mostly captured original German 
documents, and it was presented like in an American or English 
court — first, the opening statement of the chief prosecutor for the 
Americans, Justice Jackson. The British was Sir David Maxwell- 
Fyfe, who is now Minister of the Interior, and I think for the Kus- 
sians it was General Rudinko. For the French, among others, Edgar 
Faure, the French Prime Minister, who was French Prime ISIinister 
during the last 2 months or so. Then another way of presentation 
started. We wrote trial briefs against each individual defendant, 
together with document books, a kind of catalog lining up each defend- 
ant with the various things. In fact, I was in charge of the division 
which had to write these trial briefs on the individual defendants. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Now, Mr. Kempner, coming right down to the Katyn 
question, how specific was the count drawn in that case? 

Dr. Kempner. The Katyn case was mentioned in the indictment 
under count III, subsection C, that means mistreatment, and so forth, 
of prisoners of war. Count III, subsection C, and if I remember, it 
was drawn up just in three or four lines, printed line, in the indictment. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Who drew it up ? 

Dr. Kempner. To my best knowledge, the Russians. 

Mr. DoNDERO. What was the specific charge in that count ? 

Dr. Kempner. The specific charge was and, if I may, I want to 
refresh my memory — the specific charge was as printed in the indict- 
ment in volume I, page 54, of the record of the International Military 
Tribunal, page 54, which reads, and I have to correct myself because 
these are only two lines and not three or four lines as I said. 

Now, I am refreshing my memory and see that the indictment says : 

In September 1941, 11,000 Polish officers * * *. 

Mr. Flood (interposing). As a matter of fact, you are reading di- 
rectly from the record, are you not? 

Dr. Kempner. I am reading now from the record, volume I, page 54 : 

In September 1941, 11,000 Polish officers were killed in the Katyn Forest near 
Smolensk. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you read the complete charge in the indict- 
ment, so far as Katyn is concerned ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, your Honor, I did so. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Now, when did this case come before the court, during 
the beginning of the Nurnberg trials or toward the end ? 

Dr. Kempner. The first time evidence was submitted or alleged 
evidence was submitted by the Russian prosecution was in the middle 
of the trial. In fact, on February 14, 1946. 

Mr. Dondero. In what form did they submit the evidence ? 

Dr. Kempner. The evidence submitted at that time by the Russian 
prosecutor. Colonel Pokrovsky, was a Russian document which had 
the document number U. S. S. R. 54, and this document was a report 
written by a Russian state commission, as they called it, and in this 
report there were details about the alleged massacre which I have men- 



1540 THE KATYNT FOREST MASSACRE 

tioned as part of the indictment, and this is in the record oi the Inter- 
national Military Tribunal, volume VII. pages 425 to 427. 

Mr, Mitchell. Isn't that volume XVII? 

Dr. Kempner. A'olume VII. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Now, that report, Mr. Kempner, is the report of the 
Russian Commission appointed by the Russian Government to examine 
the question of Katvn? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, your Honor. 

Dr. Dondero. What'is the date of that report? 

Dr. Kempner. I don't know the date. • I have forgotten the exact 
date. 

Mr. Dondero. After the Russians presented their charge in the form 
of this report, was there anything done on the part of the Govern- 
ments of the United States, the British, or the French ? 

Dr. Kempner. Nothing at all. 

Mr. Dondero. When did it come up again, the question of the Katyn 
massacre? 

Dr. Kempner. This question just came up just about 1 month later, 
namel3% on March 8, 1946. 

Mr. Machroavicz. One question there; so there will be no misin- 
terpretation : Nothing was done by the Americans, British, or French 
because, under the method you have described here previously, there 
was nothing that should have been done or could have been done by the 
Americans, British, or French, is that correct? 

Dr. Kempner. That is correct. We had no right to interfere in 
any way. 

Mr. Dondero. When it came up a month later, then what happened ? 

Dr. Kempner. On March 8, 1946, the defense took it up. 

Mr. Flood. May I interrupt at this time to point out, in fairness ta 
the witness, that the chief counsel of the German defense was whom ? 

You may not be able to decide who that was. 

AVho was the counsel for Goering ? 

Dr. Kempner. I don't want to answer the first question because of 
certain professional 

Mr. Flood (interposing). All right. 

Who was the counsel for Goering ? 

Dr. Kempner. Tlie very distinguished lawyer from Schleswig- 
Holstein, Mr. Otto Stahmer. 

Mr. Flood. I think you would like to know that Dr. Stahmer is now 
in the courtroom at this moment. 

Dr. Kempner. I am glad to see again the fighter from the other 
side. 

Mr. Flood. Will you stand up. Dr. Stahmer? 

Mr. Dondero. Tell the committee then what happened when the- 
defense brought it up. 

Dr. Kempner. On that very day, Mr. Stahmer stood up and made 
something, which was translated into English, an applicalion. I would 
rather call it a motion, and his mo' 'on was — I sav it shortly : "I do not 
believe that my client and the persons mentioned in the Russian docu- 
ment are guilty or connected with this Katyn ciise, and I want to 
have witnesses'," he said, and he asked at that time for a Colonel 
Alirens. a Lieutenant Rex, and a General Oberhaeuser, and a Lieu- 
tenant Graf Berg, and he also mentioned that he wanted to have as a 
witness for the defense or an expert witness, a Pi-ofessor Naville, f ronii 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1541 

Geneva, and Chief Justice Lawrence, as always, said : "Put it in writ- 
ing," and all this happened on March 8, 1946, and I am referring to 
vohnne IX pages o and 4, of the bine volumes of the record of the 
International Military Tribunal. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Wlio was Justice Lawrence? 

Dr. Kempxer. That was the chief justice, who was a Britisher. 

Mr. DoxDERO. Tell the committee just what happened? 

Dr. Kempxer. There was another very short discussion because 
Mr. Stahmer complained that he had not received copies of the famous 
Russian State Commission report. 

Mr. ISIiTCHELL. AVere you present in court at the time of this dis- 
cussion ? 

Dr. Kempxer. I remember I was at that time in court. 

The answer was that 30 copies were already at the translators' 
room. I think that is written down in volume IX, page 28. 

Mr. Mitchell. One question : Did Dr. Stahmer put it in writing 
when the judge told him to, to your knowledge ? 

Dr. Kempxer. I cannot say. I can only draw the conclusion that 
he did so. 

Mr. MrrcHELL. You don't know yourself, though ? 

Dr. KE]\rpxER. I don't know myself, and I can draAv the conclusion 
from the thing which follows right now. 

Mr. DoxDERO. In other words. Dr. Stahmer, the attorney, demanded 
that witnesses be called? 

Dr. Ke3ipxer. Yes; and he did so very energetically. 

Mr. Doxdero. Tell the committee just what liappened in regard to 
the arrangements for witnesses. 

Dr. Kempxer. This motion about witnesses was translated into 
four languages, which alwaj^s took some time, and on May 11, 1946, 
the Russian, Colonel Pokrovsky, announced the motion in open court, 
and he said literally : "The prosecution protests very energet- 
ically * * *"' In fact, he didn't say "the prosecution," he said: 
"The Soviet Union, the prosecution of the Soviet Union, categorically 
protests against witnesses," and then Chief Justice Lawrence made 
one remark, and after that very remark. Colonel Pokrovsky gave in 
in some way. 

Chairman Maddex. What remark did Justice Lawrence make there ? 

Dr. Kempxer. I don't know. I am not able to quote it really, but it 
was some remark which is in the record in volume XIII, page 430. 

Chairman Maddex. Have you that volume here? 

Mr. DoxDERO. The witness refreshes his memory from the record. 

Dr. Kempxer. I refresh my memory, and with your permission, 
I am reading this remark from page 430 : "PREsroEXT or the Court : 
Colonel Pokrovsky, we have this matter fully in our mind and we 
have already had to consider it. Therefore, it is not necessary for 
3'ou to deal Avith it in detail, for I understand that these are new wit- 
nesses who have not before been applied for." 

Chairman Maddex. Xow, what did President Lawrence mean by 
that remark? 

Dr. Kempxer. It's rather difficult for a prosecutor or lawyer to 
interpret a judge, but, if I understand it well, then he meant : "You 
better be careful and I tliink we will do sometiiing about it." 

Mr. Doxdero. Were witnesses agreed upon and the number? 



1542 THE .KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Kempner. At that time there was a further discussion, and the 
Russian, Colonel Pokrovsky, said, more or less to the court: "If the 
defense wants 2 witnesses, we, the Russians, want 10 witnesses." 

Mr. Mitchell. Was it the customary procedure of the court to grant 
such requests? 

Dr. Kempner. Not such wild ones, I would say. 

Mr. Dondero. Did they finally agree upon the number of witnesses 
upon each side ? 

Dr. Kempnek. The judge, in what at that time I thought was a very 
wise way, said : "Each of you three." That was the ruling which was 
later pronounced — each side three. That's all. 

Mr. Mitchell. Three witnesses? 

Dr. Kempner. Three witnesses. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Did each side present three witnesses ? 

Dr. Kempner. Anyhow, he made this ruling: "Three witnesses," 
and- then something happened. Your Honor, which I do not know, 
because the American prosecution had nothing to do with it, but I 
know that some coming together between the Russian prosecution and 
the German defense happened. 

Mr. Mitchell. I would like to ask here a procedural question. 

When the defense or the prosecuting lawyers on either side wanted 
to have a conference, official conference, to whom did they go to ar- 
range such a meeting ? 

Dr. Kempner. When we Americans had something, I just went to 
the German lawyers and said, "What are you doing, and what should 
I do?" However, when a question with the Russians was involved, 
the German lawyers went, as we would say in the United States, to 
the clerk of the court, he should arrange a meeting, or, as it was said 
or as the official name was in Nuremberg, the secretary general. 

Chairman Madden. Before Mr. Mitchell asked his question, you 
stated something happened then between the Russian prosecution and 
the German defense. What did you mean by that ? 

Dr. Kempner. A talking about the ruling of the court, that each 
side has a right to have three witnesses, whether they really would 
have three or maybe two are enough, or whether they might do it in 
affidavit form or something like that. But I was not present. 

Chairman Madden. What happened? Was there a decision made? 

Dr. Kempner. Anyhow, on June 29, 1946, which was 1 month later, 
Justice Lawrence asked the Russian colonel, who was a prosecutor, a 
kind of judge advocate, "Did you come to an agreement?" He asked 
him in open court, "Did you, Russian Prosecutor, make an agreement 
with German counsel about the three witnesses?" 

Mr. Mitchell. May I pause a minute there? 

You referred to the so-called clerk of court, as called in the American 
system, or as he was called at Nuernberg — what was it? 

Dr. Kempner. Secretary General. 

Mr. Mitchell. Who was that? 

Dr. Kempner. I think at the time there were certain changes. 
There was some clerk of the Supreme Court from Washington first, 
but I think at that time, his successor was — I am not a hundred per- 
cent sure, but I think it was a General Mitchell. 

Mr. Mitchell. An American ? 

Dr. Kjsmpner. An American jreneral. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1543 

Mr. DoNDERO. Now, Mr. Kempner, you are in court, the court lias 
called up the case, he asked you, for the prosecution and the defense, 
if you had come to an agreement; and your answer was that you had? 

Dr. Kempxer. Not my answer but the answer of the Russian at- 
torney, and I think also of Mr. Stahmer, And the answer was there 
was some agreement between prosecution and defense, "And we just 
can go ahead." 

Mr. Flood. I think the record should be very clear at this point that 
whatever discussion you are talking about, or whatever discussion 
there was with the court about agreements as to the number of wit- 
nesses was a matter between the court, the Russians, and the (Jermans, 
and nobody else ; is not that it ? 

Dr. Kempxer. That is right. And I testify only on matters which 
1 saw in court, or heard. 

Chairman Maddex. You were acting in the capacity of an observer 
or a spectator, were you ? 

Dr. Kempxer. The American prosecution was always represented. 
We had our own table and we were present. 

Chairman Maddex. You were participating then ? 

Dr. Kempxer. Yes. 

Mr. Mitchell. No. 

Mr. Flood. One moment. 

I want the record to show — I repeat it again for the purpose of 
emphasis — that whatever agreements were made in the open court, 
that you are talkino; about and that you saw or heard, were made 
between the court, the Russian prosceution, and the German defense ; 
is not that right? 

Dr. Kempxer. That is absolutely correct, and the records shows so. 

Mr. Flood. And you were present in the court merely as an attache 
of the American side. 

Dr. Ivempxer. I was one of the representatives of the American 
side. 

Mr. Flood. Apparently, I have to spell this out three times. You 
did not, for the Americans, participate in any of these agreements 
that we were talking about, with the Russians and Germans. 

Dr. Kempxer. I did not; and, to my best knowledge, none of my 
American or British colleagues did so. 

Mr. DoxDERO. After this matter came up the second time, that 
you have just described, did it come up again before the court? 

Dr. Kempxer. Yes, your Honor. Just 2 days later this defense 
presented the three witnesses. 

Mr. DoxDERO. Did the Russians present any witnesses ? 

Dr. Kempxer. Yes; your Honor. 

Dr. DoxDERo. Who were the German witnesses ? 

Dr. Kempxer. The German witnesses — and the record of the Tri- 
bunal, volume 17, page 274, shows so, that the first German witness 
Mr. Stahmer presented was Mr. Friedrich Alirens. 

Mr. DoxDERO. I think you have already testified to that. My at- 
tention has just been called to it. 

Now, that was 2 days after the agreement or discussion about the 
witnesses. 

Dr. Kempxer. Yes, your Honor; on July 1. 

Mr. DoxDERO. What year? 

Dr. Kempxer. 1946. 

93744 — 52— pt. 5 21 



1544 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. DoNDEKO. What happened in regard to the Katyn case in 
court after that, if you know? 

Dr. Kkmpner. After Mr. Stahmer was throuoh with liis three 
witnesses and the Russians were thr()u<j:h with tlieir three wit- 
iiesses 

Mr. DoxDEKO. In other words, wliat did tlie court do? 

Dr. Kempner. Mr. Stahmer made, 3 (hiys hiter, on July 5, his final 
plea for Goering. 

Mr. DoNDEKO. The question is : What did the court do? 

Dr. Kempxer. I made a little mistake. There is something that 
happened before. 

The Soviets were not very enthusiastic about the thing and said, 
"We brought only these two or three witnesses; this is pretty bad. 
We want to have many more witnesses, up to 120 or something like 
that." And Mr. Stahmer stated for the defense, "Okay, if we get equal 
luunbers." And Justice Ijawrence, if I am right, said, more or less, 
"We are through; each side had three witnesses." 

And 3 days later, Mr. Stahmer made already his final statement, 
because these were really the last witnesses of the whole trial. 

Mr. DoxDERO. Do you mean the Nuremberg trial ? 

Dr. Kempxer. The Nuremberg trial. 

Mr. DoxDERO. After that happened, what did the court do, if 
anything? 

Dr. Kempxer. I want to say shortly, Mv. Stahmer said, "No proof," 
in his final statement on July 5. And a couple of days later, on 
July 29, 1946, the Russian prosecutor made his statement, his final 
statement. 

Mr. DoxDERO. What did he say? 

Dr. Kempxer. Volume 19, page 583 — and he didn't mention KatA'n 
at all 

Mr. DoxDEHO. The question has been left unanswered. AVliat did 
the court do after that, if anything? 

Dr. Kempxer. The court didn't mention the Katyn case any more, 
and so far as I know the judgment, the word "Katyn" had not been 
mentioned in the judgment October 2, 1946. 

Mr. DoNDERO. So that the case of the Katyn massacre was left un- 
decided? 

Dr. Kempner. The court made no finding. 

Chairman Maddex. Mr. O'Konski. 

Mr. O'Kox^sKi. From your observation, when the Katyn matter came 
up did the judges sitting at the trial show a sincere interest in estab- 
lishing guilt one way or the other for those murders or were they more 
interested in letting it dro)) just as fast as possible? 

Mr. Machrowicz. Mr. Chairman, may I say that T think it was 
agr( ed with counsel tliat he should ex])i"ess whatever facts he knows of 
and wliatever observations he made, and I think it would be unfair for 
the connnitteo to ask tlie counsel to exj)ress an opinion, unless he wishes 
to do so — an opinion ]);n'ticularly of tliis kind. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. I will droji the question, but I have some more ques- 
tions. I withdraw the question. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you care to answer? 

Dr. KE:\rpxER. No. It is a little difficult to talk about my own 
jtidues. It might be contenu^t of court and it might be admiration, 
and I don't want to say anything. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1545 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. I will withdraw the question, then. 

Dr. Kempxer. Thank you. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. I have some more questions, and these are not ques- 
tions of opinion; these are questions of fact from your observation. 

The United States and Great Britain were given the responsibility 
of preferring charges at the trial for a plan of conspiracy and crimes 
against peace ; is that not correct ? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes ; and a conspiracy to commit such crimes and war 
crimes and crimes against humanity. 

Mr. O^KoNSKi. Did the United States and British delegations afc 
Nuremberg trials prefer the charges of an act of aggression and a 
breaking of nonaggression treaties by Kussia against Finland in 1938 
and 1039? 

Dr. Kempner. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did the British and American delegations bring the 
charges, since it was within their category, since they were charged 
with plans of conspiracy and crimes against peace, prefer the charge 
of Russia's aggression against Latvia and the breaking of the non- 
aggression pact with Latvia by the Russians? 

Dr. Kempxer. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. Did they prefer any charges before the Nuremberg 
trials on Russia's aggression and breaking of a nonaggression treaty 
with Estonia? 

Dr. Ke^ipxer. Not to my knowledge. 

jNIr. OTvoxsKi. Did they bring any charges of Russia's aggression 
and violation of a nonaggression pact with the country of Lithuania ? 

Dr. Kempxer. No. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. Here is an important one : Did the British and the 
American delegations bring the charge before the Nuremberg trials 
of Russia's attack on Poland in league with Hitler when he first started 
the war and the breaking of the nonaggression pact with Poland? 

Dr. Kempxer. No. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. In other words, at the Nuremberg trials, the only 
charges of aggression and treaty violation that the United States and 
Great Britain brought before the Nuremberg trials were those which 
were committed by the Germans? 

Dr. Kempxer. At that time; yes. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. That is all. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Just one question. 

I would like to return to the Katyn case, but I am going to ask just 
one question to clear some of the matters. 

In view of the fact that this was a four-power tribunal, could the 
United States or Great Britain prefer any charges against another 
member of that tribunal, Russia ? 

Dr. Kempxer. Of course not. It was a time of a warm peace and 
not of the cold war. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. In that connection, I wish to state that there were 
four judges — were there not — one Russian, one Frenchman, one Eng- 
lishman, and one American, and they could have decided, if it had 
not been brought up, that it could be brought up ? 

Dr. Kempxer. That is a very difficult type of technical, $64, question 
and I really have not the answer, Your Honor, I am sorry. 

I\Ir. Machrowicz. Returning to the Katyn case, I am going to ask 
just a few questions. 



1546 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Am I correct in assuming, from the testimony which you have given 
thus far, that you have given this committee the understanding that 
the entire responsibility for the presentation of the case, insofar as 
Katyn is concerned, was placed upon the Kussian representative? 

Dr. KEMrNER. Yes, Your Honor. The Russians had the sole re- 
sponsibility. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And am I correct also in assuming that the Rus- 
sian representative upon whom this responsibility was placed failed 
completely in his final argument to the courts to even mention the 
Katyn case. 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, Your Honor. After that debacle with the wit- 
nesses they didn't press it any longer. 

Mr. MACHR0\yicz. And am I correct in understanding that the four- 
power court failed completely in its judgment to mention the Katyn 
case ? 

Dr. Kempner. To the best of my knowledge and after having read 
the judgment — volume 1, again — Katyn is not mentioned. 

Mr. Machrowicz. The Russians had a representative in that four- 
power court, did they not? 

Dr. Kempxer. Yes, they had. Your Honor. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you remember who he was ? 

Dr. Kempner. I think it was General Nikitchenko. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did the Russian member of that tribunal make 
any objection or protest against the four-power tribunal having failed 
to determine guilt in the Katyn case ? 

Dr. Kempner. Not so far as the official record is concerned. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And do you know anything to the contrary ? 

Dr. Kempner. I never have heard anything about it. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Now^, did I understand also that the Russian 
prosecutor, who had the sole responsibility of the presentation of 
the case, had the right, after the judgment was entered, to make a 
request that the judgment be amended to include a finding in the 
Katyn case? 

Dr. Kempner. I think every power, every prosecutor, had the right 
to ask for some motion of error or some motion to amend the judg- 
ment. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you not know, as a matter of fact, that there 
were instances during the Nuremberg trial when the prosecutor did 
make such a request whenever he felt that the court failed to make 
a ruling on a material matter? 

Dr. Kempner. I do not know exactly whether we did, but I know 
exactly that in two Nuremberg trials later the defense did it, witli 
success, in two cases. 

Mr. Machrowicz. So that the Russian representative, then, did 
have that power, in your opinion ? 

Dr. Keimpner. Despite the fact that these judgments were, so to 
speak, final, you always could make motions to the same court. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And isn't it true also that there were instances 
in the Nuremberg trial when one repi'esentative of the tribunal, Avho 
felt not in accord with the majority opinion, did express his own 
minority opinion? Is that correct? 

Di". Kempner. Tliat happened, and, in fact, in the first Nuremberg 
trial the Russians filed a dissenting opinion because they weie not 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1547 

satisfied with the acquittal of Schacht and von Papen and, I think, 
Fritsclie. And they were also not satisfied, I think, with the life 
sentence for Hess. I think they wanted something else. 

Mr. Machrowicz. And in this case the failure of the Russian mem- 
ber of the tribunal to file a dissenting or minority opinion must be 
construed as constituting his agreement to the failure of the tribunal 
to determine giiilt in the Katyn case? Am I correct? 

Dr. Kempner. I don't care to interpret the Russian sphinx and Mr. 
Nikitchenko, what he thought at that time, why he did or why he did 
not, but he just did not, and they filed a dissenting opinion of 11 or 
12, or of more than 12, printed pages on other issues. 

Mr. Machrowicz. But you do state that, des])ite the fact that the 
Russian member of the tribunal could have filed a minority opin- 
ion in this instance, he filed no dissenting opinion? 

Dr. Kempner. Yes, Your Honor, I do. 

Mr. Flood. Now, counselor, I want to ask you a question. It will 
call for a combinaiton, perhaps, of fact and of opinion for you to 
answer. You don't have to answer anj^thing if you don't want to. 

When I arrived in Bremerhaven I went to Bremen and I met with 
the (Terman press. Later on I met with the German press at Bonn, 
and the international press at Bonn, and I told the press as that time 
that one of the things that the American Congress was interested in, 
and one of the things that this Commission was going to try and in- 
quire into, was whether or not there was any collusion between any 
members of the American staff and the Russians for the purpose of 
ignoring or dropping or failing to prosecute the Katyn indictment. 

Now, as far as your official connection or capacity permitted, from 
your observations and experience, are you aware of any such con- 
spiracy or attempt to collude between anybody on the American side 
and anybody on the Russian side, or anybody else, to ignore, to brush 
off, or to quash or to dispose of the Katyn indictment ? 

Dr. Kempner. Not the slightest, and, in fact, we admired Mr. 
Stahmer at that time because this was one of the few scores he really 
made for Goering, that the Russians more or less dropped the Katyn 
matter. 

Mr. Flood. Was the atmosphere or the attitude among the attaches 
of the court such that it could be construed as a victory for Stahmer 
insofar as that court was concerned ? 

Dr. Kempner. So far as I am concerned, absolutely, and I think 
there were several people of the American prosecution who expressed 
this to Mr. Stahmer, and to other people. And, if I remember very 
well, I myself said to old Goering — something which I cannot trans- 
late very well into English. 

Mr. Machrowicz. May I state for the record that because of an 
appointment that the Chairman and I have, to leave for Berlin, we 
will have to leave the hearing at this time, and I hope the witness 
does not construe our departure as taking away from his testimony at 
all, which I considered very informative and very important to hear. 

Mr. Flood. Now, as one trial lawyer to another, I want you to 
express an opinion. You don't have to if you don't want to. 

Wouldn't you say that the failure of the Russian prosecution to 
argue the Katyn matter in the closing argument, and the failure of 



1548 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

the Russians to pursue the Katyn matter further, in A^ew of their 
peculiar position as a member of the tribunal, is about as clear a con- 
fession of guilt of the Katyn nuitter as it would be possible to imagine l 

Dr. Kempner. At that time, in 1945, Katyn was no issue for mj'^ 
point. I was not acquainted with all these things too well. However, 
after I have studied it again — and I am writing some history on the 
Nurnberg trials — I would say at least it looked mighty funny. 

Mr. DoxDERO. I want to say that it is to be regretted that the court 
did not dispose of this case at the time they had it before them. 

Mr. Flood. Your name appeared in the German press here in con- 
nection with these hearings. What is the nature of your appearance 
here, voluntary or otherwise? 

Dr. Kempner. It is absolutely voluntary. 

Chairman Madden. Congressman O'Konski. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. I have a question. 

At no time during the Nurnberg trials when the Katyn matter 
came up were the Polish people or the Polish Government-in-exile 
consulted, were they? 

Dr. Kempner. I don't know ; I never met them, 

Mr. O'Konski. There was a Polish white book that was published, 
and it was presented to the American delegation at the Nurnberg 
trials, the French, and the English. Now, under the rules of pro- 
cedure, there was no way in which the Americans could have presented 
that document because it was a Russian case, was it not ? 

Mr. Kempner. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. O'Konski, You didn't, at any time, see the Polish white book 
that was gotten out, establishing what they thought as to who was 
guilty for the masacre at Katyn? 

Dr. Kempner. No ; I have never seen any white book. 

Mr. DoNDERO. One question more. 

Did you have before you, as assistant prosecutor, a book consisting 
of some 400 pages entitled, "Facts and Documents Concerning Polish 
Prisoners of War Captured by the USSR in the 1939 Campaign"? 

Dr. Kempner. I have never seen it. 

Mr. Flood. Before we recess for 5 minutes, if anybody here is 
interested, we may decide to call Dr. Stahmer immediately, instead 
of tomorrow morning, if the Doctor w^ill be available, but that is not 
certain. We will know in about 5 minutes. 

Chairman Madden. I wish to make an announcement. 

Congressman Machrowicz and myself, on account of a previous com- 
mitment, will be away from the committee for an interval, and Con- 
gressman Flood will take over as chairman. 

We wish to thank you, Dr. Kempner, for coming here and testifying, 
and we appreciate your testimony very much. 

Dr. Kempner. Thank you, 

(Whereupon a recess was taken.) 

AFTER RECESS 

Mr. Flood. The hearing will be in order. 
Dr. Stahmer. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1549 

TESTIMONY OF DR. OTTO STAHMER (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, 

MR. VON HAHN) 

]Mr. Flood. Do you object to being photographed? 

Dr. Stahmer. Xo. 

Mr. Flood. Please be seated. Doctor, and give the stenographer 
jour name. 

Dr. Stahmer. Dr. Otto Stahnier, attorney at Law with the Ober- 
landesgericht, Kiel. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, we will have read to you a statement which 
will then be translated into German. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable 
for slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for 
anything you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clearlhat neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 
Do you understand ? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Flood. Will you stand and be sworn, please? 

Do you swear by God Almighty that the testimony you are about 
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Dr. Stahmer. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name ? 

Dr. Stahmer. Otto Stahmer. 

Mr. Flood. You are a member of the German bar? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Flood. For how long have you been engaged in the practice 
of law in Germany? 

Dr. vStahmer. Since IMarch 1907, with the Oberlandesgericht, Kiel. 

Mr. Flood. Have you ever been identified with a German bar asso- 
ciation or confederation of lawyers? 

Dr. Stahmer. Xo, innnediately after having finished my training 
I became an attorney at law. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever an official of the German Bar Associa- 
tion or an association of German lawyers? 

Dr. Stahmer. After 1945 I was appointed by the British Occupa- 
tion Power to the Bar Association in Schleswig-Holstein. In Oc- 
tober 1945, 1 was elected to the chairmanship, and later on became the 
president of the Bar Association, and left it again in 1947, owing to 
pressure of work. 

Mr. Flood. Now, I direct your attention, doctor, to the Nuremberg 
trials and ask you whether or not you were ever identified with those 
proceed in^gs? 

Dr. Stahmer. I was defense counsel for the former Reichsmarshal 
Goering at the war crimes trials at Nuremberg. 

Mr. Flood. Will you tell us in what way you came to be identified 
with the defense of Goering ? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes, I can. 

The various bar associations called for attorneys who would be 
prepared to act as defense counsel in Nuremberg, prior to the opening 



1550 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

of the trial. The Oherlandesgericht president of Kiel, in Schleswig- 
Holstein, made a list of the men willinjr to act as defense counsel. 
Five names were suggested, and I was one of them. Tliis list was 
forwarded to Nuremberg and, from all the lists collected from the 
various districts, an ultimate list, or an accumulated list, was estab- 
lished. This list was submitted to the accused, and they were author- 
ized to select defense counsel from this list. Goering selected me from 
the list, and he told me later that I had been recommended to him by 
the Reichsgerichtent-fuehrer ; that was the leader of the Reich legal 
men, Frank. 

Before that I had no contacts with Goering. 

Mr. Flood. Now, doctor, we are concerned with that part of the 
Goering indictment or the Nur-emberg proceedings that have to do only 
with the Katyn massacre. I am sure you are entirely capable of 
presenting that story to us without my interrupting with questions. 
I will try not to, unless there is some particular thing that we happen 
to think of. 

Therefore, will you take ns from the beginning to the end of that 
part of the Nuremberg proceedings that had to do with Katyn? 

Dr. Stahiher. As Dr. Kempner pointed out, quite correctlv, the 
charge in Nuremberg contained a short sentence, running as follows: 
"In the Katyn forest 11,000 Polish officers were murdered in Septem- 
ber 1041." 

Mr. Flood. May I interrupt, for the record, and read you the exact 
language, so you may begin ? I quote from the statement of Dr. Stah- 
mer on page 274 of the International Military Tribunal Trial of the 
Major War Criminals, volume 17: "In September 1941, 11,000 Polish 
officers, prisoners of war, were killed in the Katyn woods near 
Smolensk." 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes, that is correct. As it was, here, a question of 
prisoners of war, it could safely be assumed that the crime could only 
have been perpetrated by German troops. I discussed this matter 
with Goering and asked him whether the German Army could pos- 
sibly have had anything to do with this matter. Goering declared 
to me, being his defense counsel, that he could state with a clean con- 
science that the German Army was not responsible for this crime. 
I thereupon told him that in that case it was our dutv to deal with 
this matter in detail for the sake of the honor of the German Wehr- 
macht. 

I suggested that I would take up this matter in connection with his, 
Goering's, own case, being defense counsel for Goering, and in view 
of the fact that Goering was the highest ranking officer in the German 
Army there. Goering agreed, and thus I engaged in this matter. 

Mr. Flood. Now, may I interrupt for the procedural problem 
again ? 

As I understand it, the Katyn charge brought by the Russians was 
not brought against any specific defendant. 

Dr. Stahmer. No. That is correct. The accusation did not con- 
tain any more than the sentence which was read out a few minutes 
ago, and I could only get a little further in this matter when, as Dr. 
Kempner correctlv pointed out previously, the Russians submitted 
the document U. S". S. R. 54 on April 14, 1946. 

I established the following: facts from this document: 



THE KATYN FOREST MASlSACRE 1551 

A construction battalion of engineers with the number 537 was 
mentioned in this accusation. The document also mentioned that this 
battalion was under the command of a certain Colonel Arnes. The 
document also mentioned the names of three officers : First Lieutenant 
Rex, First Lieutenant Holdt, and Lt. Graf Berg. 

I got hold of these three names and established and proved that 
they could not possibly have perpetrated the crime. The news of this 
evidence was published over the radio. It was also heard by Lieuten- 
ant Arnes, who actually was Colonel Ahrens. 

A few days after that Colonel Ahrens came to see me and offered to 
testify as a witness, and with his assistance I succeeded in bringing 
some more light into the matter. In the meantime, a 1st lieutenant 
von Eichborn had also reported to me. and these two gentlemen also 
brought me into contact with General Oberhaeuser. 

The situation now developed as follows : 

Colonel Ahrens stated that he had arrived in the area of Katyn in 
November 1941 and had taken command of Signal Regiment 537. 
The former designation of Engineer's Construction Battalion was 
incorrect; it was actually Signal Regiment No. 537. I learned from 
him, too, that immediately upon the occupation of Smolensk, in 
July of 1941, a small advance unit had been in that area near Katyn, 
and at the beginning of August of the same year the regimental staff 
headquarters had been established in the Dnieper Castle. The com- 
mander of the regiment and in that regimental staff at that time was 
Colonel Bedenk, who, as I said before, was succeeded by Colonel 
Ahrens in November 1941. 

That, in brief, was the material which I had at my disposal for prov- 
ing my case. My aim was to prove to the Nuremberg Tribunal that the 
German Wehrmacht was not responsible for this crime. The Rus- 
sians were not accused, and therefore I had neither the task nor the 
duty to clear up the matter. 

At first the court allowed me to call the five witnesses which I had 
named before. It was then suggested that in view of the fact that the 
case was a comparatively simple one, the number of witnesses should 
be reduced to three. The selection of the witnesses was left to the de- 
fense counsel or to the prosecution. 

In this connection I should like to mention the following incident. 
One day the secretary general of the court telephoned me and asked 
whether I was prepared to discuss the Katyn matter with the Russian 
prosecution. I said that I was prepared to do so, but requested in 
view of the fact that although it did not concern all the defense 
counsel it still did concern a large number of them, I requested Pro- 
fessor Exner, who was a defense counsel for General Jodl, to accom- 
pany me. The two of us met Colonel Prochownik. Colonel Pro- 
chownik pointed out that a few days before the chairman. Lord 
Lawrence, had requested that the proceedings be made shorter if pos- 
sible. He was of the opinion that we could shorten the proceedings 
by not hearing the witness, or by submitting affidavits instead of hav- 
ing the witnesses testify, with the request that the court should take 
official knowledge of these affidavits. 

I refused this suggestion, and Professor Exner did likewise, for the 
result of such an action would have been that the documents would 
have been submitted without the pubHc getting to know anything about 
their contents. 



1552 THE KATYN FOREST MASiSACRE 

I f^ave my response for refusing by pointinfr out that the Russian 
prosecution had accused the German Wehrmaclit publicly of having 
nnirdered eleven thousand prisoners of war, and for the sake of the 
honor of the German Wehrmacht I thought it imperative that the 
public should be informed in the same way, that this accusation was 
Avithout foundation. 

This suggestion of mine was rejected. Colonel Prochownik said that 
such a procedure would again take a much longer time. I had de- 
clared that, provided the other German defense counsel would agi'ee, 
I would agree to have affidavits submitted, but only on condition that 
they should be read out during the proceedings. I forgot to mention 
that previously. That was for the reason that it would take more time 
again, and that the Lord Justice's wishes would not be fulfilled that 
way, of shortening the proceedings. 

A further suggestion of mine, to limit the proceedings to a certain 
time, was also rejected. This was the contents of our discussion, which 
was also mentioned by Dr. Kempner, altliough I do not believe that 
Dr. Kempner had knowledge of what was said during those discussions. 

The chairman then declared that, in view of the fact that no agree- 
ment had been reached, the suggestion that both sides should only 
call three witnesses each should be adhered to. 

My witnesses were Colonel Ahrens, General Oberhaeuser, and First 
Lieutenant von Eichborn. 

The Russians proposed the former Buergermeister of Smolensk, 
who was Buergermeister while Smolensk was occupied by the Germans. 
I forget the name at present, but it is in the documents, in the ])rotocol. 
Then, a Bulgarian professor. Dr. Markov. Professor Markov had 
been a member of the commission which had gone to Smolensk and 
Katyn, on the instigation of the Germans, and had given expert evi- 
dence on the probable time, gathered from the state of the decayed 
bodies, or the condition of the dead bodies, when the crime had been 
promulgated. 

The evidence and the results of this investigation were laid down 
in the German official white book. Professor INIarkov had, by then, 
been captured by the Russians, and that was how he got to Nuremberg 
as a witness. I cannot say exactly whether he was still a prisoner at 
that time. 

The third witness produced by the Russians was a professor of 
anatomy who had been working there in Smolensk after the Germans 
had evacuated. The Russians, after Smolensk and Katyn had been 
evacuated by the Germans, had hauled a connnission of physicians, 
which had to work on the same lines as the previous commissions 
under the (xermans had been working. This Russian connnission 
arrived at a different result, to the effect that the nuirder had been 
connnitted in September 1941, that is, at the time when the area was 
already under Gei-man occupation. 

As I established by cross-examining during the proceedings, this 
Russian commission consisted exclusively of Russian physicians, no 
neutrals or members of the Allied nations taking j^art in it. The result 
was as laid down by me in my arguments. From the testinu^ny 
of the witnesses .Vhi'ens, Oberhaeuser, and von Eichborn, I had my 
oi)inion proved clearly (hat the crime could not possibly have been 
perpetrated by the German Wehiinacht. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1553 

It was already stated that the Russians, in their final argument, 
which took place after the arguments of the Germans had been given, 
did not refer to the Katyn case with a single word. 

That was generally how this case was handled in Nuremberg. 

Mr. Flood. Did the tribunal, in its findings, refer to the Katyn 
matter ? 

Dr. Staiimer. No. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know of any reason, as a matter of fact, that 
they did not ? 

Dr. Staiimer. No ; of course, I do not know them. 

We nuist, however, not forget that a large number of crimes were 
put to the debit of the Germans which were also not dealt with in the 
finals, even if they were not dealt with in such detail. 

Mr. Flood. Were you satisfied, as far as you were concerned, that 
the tribunal did not mention the Katyn matter one way or the other? 

Dr. Staiimer. Yes; it is so. 

Mr. Flood. As counsel for the defense and defending an indictment, 
you were satisfied that the whole matter was dropped, as far as that 
detail was concerned; is that right? 

Dr. Staiimer. It had been dropped because the Russians had simply 
not referred to it any more. But it was not so, either, as it should 
have been in accordance with German law, that the accusation had 
also been dropped. 

Mr. Flood. This conference that you. spoke about, at which the 
submission of affidavits was discussed with the Russians, that con- 
ference, as I understand it, was called at the request of the Russians. 

Dr. Staiimer. Yes. General Mitchell had actually asked me whether 
I would be prepared to confer with the Russians so as to shorten the 
proceedings. I was of the opinion that the Russian prosecution had 
approached General Mitchell with a request to arrange such a 
conference. 

Mr. Flood. The Americans did not take part in that conference, 
did they ? 

Dr. Stahmer. No. The only ones were the Russian, myself, and 
Professor Exner. 

Mr. Flood. And during your entire handling of the Katyn matter 
with the Russfans, the matter was handled only between you and the 
Russians and the court; is that correct? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes, that is so. 

Mr. Flood. Your three witnesses for the German side were presented 
in open court and the testimony was fully developed ? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes; that is correct. 

Mr. Flood. Were you satisfied wath the presentation of your case 
and did you consider that you had an ample opportunity to present 
the German side? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes. It was like that, that there was one gap for me. 
That was a gap of time between July and November 1941, before 
Colonel Ahrens took over the command of the regiment. But the 
reason for that was that I did not know the address of First Lieutenant 
Hodt and, as far as I recollect, was also unable to contact Colonel 
Bedenk. 

Mr. Flood. And the Russians had an opportunity to present the 
same number of witnesses, that is, three, that the German side did ? 



1554 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes. The court had distributed the witnesses on 
an equal basis. 

Mr. Flood. And the Russians did present their three witnesses? 

Dr. Stamhner. Yes, they did so. 

Mr. Flood. And the Russians had an opportunity to cross-examine 
the German witnesses? 

Dr. Stahmer. They did have the opportunity, and they availed 
themselves of the opportunity. 

Mr. Flood. And the Germans had the opportunity and availed 
themselves of the opportunity of cross-examining the Russian wit- 
nesses ? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes. I did cross-examine the Russian witnesses. 
There w^s a certain restriction imposed on that, because some German 
defend] no; counsels wanted to cross-examine the witnesses and were 
only allowed to do so in case their witnesses had actually been con- 
nected with a specific case. 

Mr. Flood. And the eminent counsel for Goering made an eloquent 
and persuasive argument to the tribunal? 

Dr. Stahivier. Yes, I did so. 

Mr. Flood. With reference to the Katyn matter. 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. And the Russians, in closing to the tribunal, never 
mentioned the Katyn matter? 

Dr. Stahmer. That is correct; because they gave their final argu- 
ment after me. 

Mr. Flood. And the result was that you had, insofar as the Katyn 
indictment was concerned, a victory as against the Russian charge? 

Dr. Stahmer. In my opinion, I had fulfilled my task of proving 
that the Germans were not the perpetrators of the crime. 

Mr. Flood. You were not concerned with trying to find out who 
was? 

Dr. Stahmer. I believe that the court would have objected to that, 
in view of the fact that the Russians were not the accused. We had 
this experience on several occasions, when we ventured to point out 
that the other side had also occasionally sinned, that it was immedi- 
ately pointed out to us that the other side was not sitting on the bench 
of the accused. 

Mr. Flood. And, of course, the doctor knows, as a distinguished trial 
lawyer, that when you are trying an indictment, in which A is in- 
dicted, you cannot convict B who was not indicted? 

Dr. Stahmer. The Russians had not charged anyone else. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, when I arrived in Germany for this committee, 
I spoke to the German press at Bremen. I subsequently spoke to the 
German and international press at Bonn. Among other things, I 
stated that this committee felt that it had been charged by the Ameri- 
can House of Representatives to find out whether or not any of the 
Americans participating in the Nurenberg trials, or anybody else, for 
that matter, were engaged in any consipracy w^ith the Russians or any- 
body else to drop or not to prosecute this Katyn indictment. 

Dr. Stahmer. T think that impossible. 

Mr. Ft>ood. Will you state, then, whether or not, in your opinion, 
any of the Americans, as far as you know, were so engaged? 

Dr. Stahmer. No. T could not even imagine how that could have 
been done, in view of the fact that I was not at all restricted or ham- 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1555 

pered in my defense. The only thing I was actually interested in was 
to prove that the German Army and the German officers who had been 
accused were not guilty. 

That I was successful in that respect is proved to me by the fact 
that the Russians never again leveled this accusation and left the 
officers which they had mentioned in their allegation out of it alto- 
gether later on. Otherwise, the Russians were very prolific in accusing 
everybody and anybody. In my opinion, the Russians would never 
have dropped the case and would have pursued it with all energy if 
there had only been a shadow of tagging the thing onto the Germans. 

INIr. Flood. As a matter of fact, in the early part of your statement, 
you told us that the Katyn case had been brought as a charge by the 
Russians. 

Dr. Stahmer. That is not quite correct. At first, in this document, 
the accusation was a general one. A more detailed description ancl 
explanation was added to it later on. 

Mr. Flood. That's exactly what I want to say and the additional 
documentation and additional detail consisted entirely of a docu- 
ment which was the official report of the Extraordinary State Com- 
mission which was officially authorized by the Russians to investigate 
the Katyn case; isn't that it? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes; that is correct. The Russians said, as already 
pointed out by Dr. Kempner, that they had another 120 witnesses, 
but they did not produce an eyewitness. 

Mr. Flood. As a matter of fact, as a practical trial lawyer, what 
really happened was that the Russians were pretty good trial lawyers 
themselves in that case, they had pretty good lawyers there, didn't 
they ? 

Dr. Stahmer. I should rather say that they were slightly unlucky 
in their choice of witnesses. 

Mr. Flood. As a matter of fact, as good lawyers, the Russian prose- 
cution knew they had no case on the Katyn indictment, and that's 
why they dropped the whole matter ; isn't it ? 

Dr. Stahmer. I do not know that. 

Mr. Flood. Any other questions ? 

Mr. DoNDERo. Congressman Flood has stated on the record what 
he understands to be tlie purpose of this committee. Tlie resolution 
passed by the House of Representatives of the United States Con- 
gress is the best evidence of our authority here in Europe, and that 
resolution authorizes this committee to collect the evidence, make 
an investigation of the Katyn massacre, and report back to the Con- 
gress of the United vStates. Justice delayecl is justice denied, and had 
the court at Nuremberg disposed of this case, we would not be here 
today. 

Mr. Flood. Mr. O'Konski. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Doctor, do I understand that the indictment on 
Katyn was part of a general indictment? 

Dr. Stahmer. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. O'KoxsKT. Could the Russian prosecution, under the proce- 
dure under which you were operating, have asked that that part of 
the indictment regarding Katyn be dismissed? 

Dr. Stahmer. No ; I do not think so. 



1556 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. Could the defense have asked tliat tliat part of the 
indictment pertaining to Katyn be dropped from the freneral charge? 

Dr. Stahmer. No; not tliat either. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. After these three witnesses were called on each 
side and you gave your closing argument, did the Russians ask that 
the charge be dismissed? 

Dr. Stahmer. No; they did not. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. Now, when the decision was handed down by the 
Tribunal, that is, the court at Nuremberg, was the decision based on 
the entire indictment or did they leave some parts of the indictment 
out in their findings ? 

Dr. Stahmer. The entire indictment. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Is it reasonably safe to assume then that the 
Russians assumed that the world would assume that, since it was a 
part of the indictment, and since it was not stricken from the indict- 
ment, and the decision was handed down on the whole indictment, 
was it possible for the Russians to assume that the world would think 
that that was one of the crimes of which the Germans were guilty ? 

Dr. Stahmer. I do not know what to reply to that question. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. It would seem to me, as an observer, not being 
schooled in law, that if the general indictment contained a clause 
indicating the crimes at Katyn, and if that part of the indictment was 
never dropped, and a decision was handed down on the entire indict- 
ment, that I, as a layman, would draw the conclusion that the Germans 
were guilty and that was one of the crimes for which they were 
convicted. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Well, Dr. Stahmer, no decision was ever reached by 
the court. 

Dr. Stahmer. No, it was never reached. 

Mr. OT^ONSKi. That's all. 

Mr. Flood. Is there anything further you would care to say, 
Doctor ? 

Dr. Stahmer. No. 

Mr. Flood. I can say that the committee appreciates very much the 
time and the patience you have taken in coming to us and helping 
us with your testimony. Thank you very much. 

You might like to know that for tomorrow morning the witnesses, 
I am advised, will be a Herr Genshow, president of the Genshow 
Ammunition Co., which was the company that manufactured the 
ammunition found in the graves at Katyn. 

The second witness is a Mr. Christer Jaederlunt, a distinguished 
Swedish newspaperman who was a member of the international com- 
mission of journalists that visited Katyn. 

The third witness is a Mr. Rudi Kramer, who is listed as a staff 
director of Frankfurt, Germany, and who was identified with one of 
the propaganda units at Smolensk. 

We will recess and adjourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. 

(Wlierennon, at 6 : 10 p. m., a recess was taken until 10 a. m. Friday, 
April 25, 1952.) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACEE 



FRIDAY, APRIL 25, 1952 

House of Representatives, 
The Select Committee on the Katyn Forest Massacre, 

Frankfurt on Main^ Germany. 

The committee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in the main 
courtroom. Resident Officer's Building, 45 Brockenheimer Anlage, 
Hon. Daniel J. Flood, presiding. 

Present : Messrs. Flood, Dondero, and O'Konski. 

Also present: John J. Mitchell, chief counsel to the select 
committee. 

Present also : Eckhardt von Hahn, interpreter. 

(The proceedings and testimony were translated into the German 
language.) 

Mr. Flood. The committee will be in order. 

The first witness ? 

Mr. Mitchell. Mr. Jaederlunt, please. 

TESTIMONY OF CHRISTER JAEDEELUNT (THROUGH GERMAN IN- 
TERPRETER ECKHART VON HAHN) 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any objection to be photographed? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. No. 

Mr. Flood. You understand English, of course? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I would prefer to speak German. 

Mr. Flood. Give your name and the correct spelling of it, your 
occupation, and address to the stenographer. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Christer Jaederlunt, Hamburg Ochsenwerder 2, 
Norderdeich 178. 

Mr. Flood. Mr. Jaederlunt, w^e will read you an admonition about 
testifying first. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that, under German law, you will not be liable 
for slander or libel, either in civil or criminal proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time. I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Mr. Flood. Do you understand the admonition? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Will you stand and be sworn, please? 

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

1557 



]^55S THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

]VIr. Jaederlunt. I swear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name ? 

Mrs. Jaederlunt. Christer Waldemar Oskar Jaederlunt. 

Mr. Flood. What is your occupation at the present time? 

Mr. jAEDERLf^NT. Joumalist and representative of the Swedish 
newspaper, the Stockholm Tidningen. 

Mr. Flood. Where were you born? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Viby, Sweden. 

Mr. Flood. Are you still a native of Sweden, a Swedish citizen? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Flood. When did you first come to Germany, representing your 
paper ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. 1928. 

Mr. Flood. What is the name of the paper ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. The Stockholm Tidningen. 

Mr. Flood. Did you represent that paper in April 1943? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. The stenographer will mark for identification these 
documents as exhibits 82 and 83. 

(The documents referred to were marked for identification as 
Frankfurt exhibits 82 and 83, and follows :) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1559 



Exhibit 82 



'r ' •>' N ',',f N *^. n.1;>K-n <h f> t* n-'' ^^^"^ 



;'q 



I 4NDI?4 FRAGETAVLINGSRONDEN 



Tysk diplcmati blir ;^> 
m^r offeosivbetortad ^' 



i"!i » tA!>£«tXNri 




AUSTR.ALIEN skall fl 
tillrackligt mei llygphn 






<.!l». Sis 111.'* 



Berlin valkomnaf Polens 
appell till mh Roda Korset 

W5.-1S.* ifci ! K«!i»i» !»f««*r &» »«.o Siw -Jv^Ai R«st» SiotSft o 



.1 sif -'> >e 



Article by Mr. Jaederlunt in tlie Stockholm Tidningen, April 18, 1943. 



93744— 52— pt. 1 



-22 



1560 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 83 



K«**»***^»*»r«^*t W-s 



Berlin valkomnar Polens 
appell fill Int. Roda Korset 












Politi 



N 



Jopcns soadebud i 
Sov;e! h05 Tojo 



Norsko lekmdn Or 
dopo och iordfdsto 



j|^ 



XT 



Article by Mr. Jiioderlunt in the Sto.kliolni. Tidniugen, April 18, 



1943. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1561 

Mr. Fi.ooD. I now show you documents marked for identification 
as exhibits 82 and 83 which are photostat reproductions of articles 
from the paper you say 3^ou represented in 1913. Are they ^ Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Jaederltjnt. That is correct. 

Mr. Flood. You wrote the stories that are reproduced in those 
papers ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. What is the date of the paper and the title of the story 
dealing with Katyn? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. The date of the newspaper is Sunday, A])ril 18, 
191:3, and the article w^as written on the previous day. "Berlin wel- 
comes the corps of the Polish Red Cross about the Katyn case.*' 

Mr. Flood. Were you in Berlin on that day ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Flood. That information came to you as a result of your in- 
vestigations as a Swedish newspaperman in Berlin on that day? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Does the question apply to the heading of the 
article or to the contents? 

Mr. Flood. The whole story. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. The heading is from official information on which 
I received. The contents of the article are based on my personal ex- 
periences and investigations in Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. What was the attitude of the then German Government 
toward the request of the London Polish Government to the Inter- 
national Red Cross to intervene in the Katyn matter? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. The then German Government welcomed this re- 
quest. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know whether or not the then German Govern- 
ment made a request of a similar nature to the International Red 
Cross? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes; the then German Government also sub- 
mitted a request to the International Red Cross. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know" whether or not the International Red 
Cross replied to the requests of the London Polish Government and 
the then German Government? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. From articles in the German press and from Ger- 
man authorities I heard that the International Red Cross was unable 
to take part in the investigations because the Russians were not able 
to take part in them. 

Mr. Flood. Did you go to Smolensk? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Now, suppose, in your own words, you just take us on 
your journey from the moment you left Berlin to Smolensk, describe 
to us what you saw at the graves at Katyn, and, in general, give us 
the details of the story that appeared under the byline in the Swedish 
paper from Berlin on April 17, 1943. 

^Ir. Jaederlunt. May I use some notes to refresh my memory ? 

Mr. Flood. Are those your own notes ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes; they are written by myself on my own type- 
writer. 

Mr. Flood. There is no objection to the witness referring to notes 
made by himself for the purpose of refreshing his memory. 



1562 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I belonged to the first group of journalists \Yhicli 
went to Katyn after the discovery of the mass graves. This happened 
approximately in the second week of April 1943. I do not recollect 
the exact date, but it could be ascertained, if necessary. In the pre- 
ceding weeks I had been to the so-called Atlantic defense wall on the 
French coast. On the day when I returned to Berlin from France, I 
received a telephone call and was asked whether I was prepared to 
go to Russia the next morning. 

Mr. Flood. Telephone call from whom ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. From the Ministry of Propaganda in Berlin. 

Mr. Flood. The German Ministry ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes, the German Ministry of Propaganda. 

The reason for the journey to Russia was not disclosed, and the head 
of this expedition was, as far as I recollect, a German officer from the 
German supreme command. Not before we arrived in Smolensk the 
next night did the officer who accompanied us give us the reason for 
this journey, to be the effect that mass graves had been found. Where- 
upon, we journalists looked at each other with long faces and all 
agreed that if we had known that beforehand we w^ould never have 
gone there. 

Mr. Flood. When you speak of journalists, who do you mean? Do 
you recall some of them, their papers, their nationalities ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I have been trying to recollect the names of the 
others and who they were, but I can only remember one of them, a 
journalist from Yugoslavia by the name of Milan Micasinovitch, and 
T remember him better than the others because he was able to speak 
Russian and, thus, he was rather helpful to all of us. 

Mr. Flood. Were there other journalists from various countries? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes, they had been selected from neutral coun- 
tries. 

Mr. Flood. About how many? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Approximately 5 or 6. I do not recollect the 
exact number. 

Mr. Flood. Very well. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. The next day we were taken by car to Krasny-Bor 
and to the forest and were shown the mass graves. In a large pit, we 
saw dead bodies, clad in uniforms, lying in several layers. They were 
sticking together like leaves. Certain dead bodies were taken out 
of the pit in our presence and examined. They were in a good state of 
preservation, probably owing to the nature of the soil — so to speak, 
half-mummified. 

Professor Buhtz, director of the Criminological Institute and In- 
stitute for Judicial Medicine in Breslau was in cliarge of the exluuna- 
tions. He requested us to select the dead bodies we wished to see 
personally and those that we wanted to see ourselves. We did so, and 
I was able to establish that the dead bodies had not been touched 
before or ])erhaps brought there from some place else. 

The young Russians working in the pit had trouble in getting the 
dead bodies out because they stuck together so tightly. It liappened 
at times that they only managed to extract a head alone. 

Tlie documents and" papers found in tlio pockets of the clothes of 
the dead bodies were also well preserved. Only part of them showed 
traces of decay. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1563 

Mr. Flood. Do I understand that when these Russian workers were 
removing the bodies that in some cases the bodies came apart when 
they were trying to pull them out? 

Mr, Jaedeklunt. No. I said that now and again a head came off 
of the bodies, because they were sticking so closely. Many bodies just 
formed big lumps. 

I read through a great number of letters, documents, pay books, 
diaries, and so forth, and I could also make out that many of these 
papers carried stamps of a Russian prisoner-of-war camp, and that 
no entry in diaries or pocketbooks bore a later date than April 20, 
1940. I also established that the dead bodies I saw all came from the 
prisoner-of-war camp Kozielsk. 

The dead bodies were lying in the grave in tightly packed layers. 
Many of them had their hands tied behind their backs and their 
mouths were filled with sawdust and they all showed the typical shots 
in the neck, and it was quite easy to gather an idea of how these 
mass executions had taken place. 

Mr. Flood. We are interested in this business of sawdust in the 
mouths. Did you see any of the skulls or the open mouths of bodies 
with sawdust in them yourself? Did you actually see that? 

Mr. Jaedeklunt. Yes; there was a great number of dead bodies 
which had been taken out where I saw this sawdust. Some of the dead 
bodies had already been taken out the previous day, but we also 
selected a large number of dead bodies in the pits and had them 
taken out. 

Mr. Flood. Now, on those bodies that you yourself selected and had 
removed from the pit in your presence, did you see unmistakable evi- 
dence of sawdust in the mouths of any of those bodies ? 

Mr. Jaedeklunt. At least in once instance. 

Mr. Flood. Did that body have the hands tied behind the back? 

Mr. Jaedeklunt. I do not recollect whether this i^articular body 
had its hands tied behind its back, but, in several cases, I recollect 
bodies which had sawdust in their mouths and the hands tied behind 
their backs, as we presumed, for the reason that they had been resist- 
ing prior to being shot. 

Mr. Flood. The purpose for our interest is that this committee 
heard testimony taken in Washington by an eyewitness to this shoot- 
ing who claims that he saw officers with their hands tied behind their 
backs, and NKVD soldiers or officers forcing open their mouths and 
forcing sawdust into the mouths and pushing them into the graves. 

Did you notice any bodies with the hands tied behind their backs 
that may have been tied with wire? 

Mr. Jaedeklunt. "Wliat kind of wire ? 

Mr. Flood. Any kind of wire. 

Mr. Jaedeklunt. Yes ; several dead bodies were pointed out to us 
whose hands were tied with wire. 

Mr. Flood. On the other bodies with their hands tied behind their 
backs, what was used to tie the hands in some of the other cases ? 

Mr. Jaedeklunt. Ordinary hemp rope. 

Mr. Flood. Will you demonstrate on the interpreter two things: 
First, how the hands were tied behind the back, and, secondly, the 
point of entry and the point of exit, as you remember, of any bullet 
wounds you saw in the skulls ? 



1564 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Jaederlunt. It is rather difficult for me because I am a layman 
and not a physician. 

Mr. Flood. All I want you to do is point how, if you remember, 
where in the back of the head the bullet went in and, if he remembers, 
where it came out. 

Just show on the back of the head of the interpreter where you 
remember the bullet entered. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Here [indicating]. 

Mr. Flood. And where it came out — in the front some place ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I do not recollect. 

Mr. Flood. Will you intlicate how the hands were tied behind the 
back ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I do not quite recollect where they were lower 
down or higher up [indicating]. 

Mr. Flood. Where did you see these documents that you described? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Part of them was located in a wooden barracks 
that had been erected near the graves, where the documents of the 
previous day had been collected, and part of the documents came from 
the pockets of the clothes of the dead bodies which we had taken out 
of the pits. 

Mr. Flood. You had seen these documents of various kinds removed 
from the bodies you selected, and the documents were removed in your 
presence ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. And it was from those documents that you concluded 
the latest date was April 1940? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes ; that is corerct. 

Mr. Flood. That wasn't from a lot of documents the Germans hand- 
ed to you from some place else? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. No. We were the first, actually, to see these 
documents, immediately after they had been taken out of the pockets 
of the bodies. 

Mr. Flood. What story did you hear, and from whom did you get 
it, as to how the Germans first discovered the graves ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I was told the story as follows: Two Poles had 
been walking past this forest of Katyn 

Mr. Flood (interposing). Wlio told you the story? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I do not recollect, but I recollect that we ques- 
tioned a few Russians later on and they confirmed it to us. We had 
the opportunity of sta3dng in Smolensk and Katyn for several days 
because, at that time, no plane was available to take us back at once. 

Mr. Flood. Were these Russians you talked to Russians from the 
area of Katyn and Smolensk ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes; that is so, and one of them related to us as 
I shall say now : Two Poles were walking along there in that area and, 
as the Poles usually did, asked the local people about other Poles. 

Mr. Flood. What were Poles doing wandering around that area 
then? 

Air. Jaederlunt. Probably some workers enlisted by the Germans. 

So, one of these Poles asked one of the Russian inhabitants of that 
region whether he knew anything about Poles having been in this 
region, and the Russian said : "Yes, in Krasny-Bor, some Poles are 
buried." And one of the Poles took a spade and went to the spot 
that had been indicated to him by this Russian. He began digging 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1565 

and discovered some dead bodies wearino- Polish uniforms. He then 
closed np the hole a<2:ain, secured two pieces of timb?r and made a 
rough cross over that and, as the Russian said, literally, he cui*sed and 
wept, and then he walked awaj'. After this incident, I was told that 
it took quite some time before these rumors started spreading and 
getting to the ears of the Germans. Whereupon, the Germans decided 
to start digging in the area and to investigate this matter. 

Mr. Flood. What were the uniforms on the bodies that you saw at 
Katyn, if you know? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Do you mean any distinct nationality? 

Mr. Flood. Yes. 

Mr. Jaederluxt. Polish. 

Mr. Flood. How do you know ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I had been in Poland previously and knew Polish 
uniforms, 

Mr. Flood. Did you see or hear of any female bodies being found 
in the graves at Katyn ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Personally, I did not see any, but I was told there 
(hat one or two had been dug up. 

Mr. Flood. Did you hear whether or not one of the female bodies 
found at Katyn was in the uniform of a Polish aviatrix, female? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. No, never. 

Mr. Flood. Did you see or hear that the bodies of any chaplains or 
clergymen of various denominations were found in the graves at 
Katyn ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I do not recollect that, but I wish to point out that 
I was in Katyn at a very early date when not many bodies had yet 
been brought up from the pits. 

Mr. Flood. About how many had been brought up? 

JNIr. Jaederlunt. I do not recollect the number. A fair niunber. 

Mr. Flood. What was the day, if you recall, that you got to Katyn? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. As far as I recollect, but I am not sure that I am 
right, it might have been around about the 10th of April. It is easy 
to get the exact date from the authorities, because it was the first 
commission of journalists that went there. 

Mr. Flood. Now, the newspaper story that you printed in the Swed- 
ish paper was dated, I believe, the I7th of April. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. The report bears the date of the I7th of April, but 
prior to that we had spent several days in Berlin and several days in 
Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. As a matter of fact, the newspaper article dated on the 
I7th of April 1913 describes your experiences at Smolensk and Katyn. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes, that is so. 

Mr. Flood. And, in view of the fact that the official German an- 
nouncement of the discovery of the graves at Katyn did not occur 
until the loth of April, then you actually were there even before the 
official announcement was made? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes, that is so. That is c}uite correct, and I have 
the im])ression that the then German Government wanted one of us 
neutrals to see and confirm the matter before making it known to the 
public at large, but, as I was told by mv newspaper a few days ago, 
the editors of my paj^er kej^t back my articles for some time in order 
to wait until the Germans would publish something about the matter 
themselves. 



1566 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Did the Germans in any way interfere with your exam- 
inations or observations at Smolensk or Katyn? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. No, on the contrary, and I am in a position to give 
you some more details about that. 

Mr. Flood. Please. 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I walked about the whole Katyn Forest by myself 
and without any escort, and owinf; to the fact that we were unable to 
get a plane from Berlin to go back for several days, we spent several 
days at Smolensk and went out for walks over the area, either alone 
or two or three of us, without any German escort, and the captain of 
the pro]5aganda company in that area actually lent me a horse and I 
rode about in the whole area without ever being hampered or hindered 
by anyone. I came across a good many soldiers standing at guard 
duty at crossroads and other points, but whenever I addressed them 
and asked them to direct me, they merely answered in Russian : "I do 
not understand." They were Russians doing service in the German 
Army. The local population was distinctly friendly and we went into 
their houses on various occasions and they were always very friendly 
and invited us to share their meals and to share the little they had at 
that time, and among ourselves we talked and said : "Well, in view of 
the fact that we have this opportunity of moving around for ourselves, 
let's do it and find out as much as possible for ourselves." That was 
before we saw the graves and we were skeptical because we thought 
it was merely a propaganda story and we wanted to find out as much 
as possible for ourselves. The population was fairly open hearted in 
talking to us and one day I asked a Russian worker what he thought 
their future would be, and the worker said : "Well, what we think, I 
and my fellow countrymen here, is that there is practically no differ- 
ence between the Bolsheviks and the Nazis and we don't like either of 
them." He also said that it was their hope that the Bolsheviks and 
the Nazis would finish each other in this war, and he concluded by say- 
ing that in the end, after the Bolsheviks and Nazis had been finished, 
they hoped that the British would come with lots of money and that the 
social democratic party would then be supreme in Russia. 

I related this in order to show that the Russian population was 
not in any way against foreigners and talking to them, and they were 
not exactly afraid of talking to us. That was not my impression, if 
you approached them in the right manner. 

Mr. Flood. In your conversations with any of the Russian natives 
of the area did you inquire of them or did they volunteer any informa- 
tion about any shootings in the Katyn area, cries and disturbances 
and. if they did, when did those things take place ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Such statements came about the first time when 
the Germans called for witnesses on the day we went to the graves. 
These witnesses were called in from their houses and one of them, 
who lived very close to the forest, stated that he had seen transports 
of prisoners of war being brought in about April 1940, and possibly, 
as far as I recollect, he might also have mentioned May 1940. He 
also stated that the local population at that time had been strictly 
forbidden to approach the forest, but he lived so near the forest that 
he couldn't help passing very near the forest occasionally, and he had 
actually heard shootings and. screams and shouts and he never noticed 
any prisoners of war coming out of the forest again, and several of 
these local peasants told the same story and they were very eager in 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1567 

telling it and did not give any impression of having been coerced or 
worked on in any way. 

Mr. Flood. Did they mention anything about any GPU or any 
NKVD Eussians in the area at the time these things took place? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes, they said the NKVD actually forbade the 
local population to go near the forest. They also stated that there 
was a house in this forest which was a recreational home of NKVD. 
They further stated that if they went to look for dead bodies in that 
forest, they would not only find these bodies of that specific time in 
1940, but they would also find a number of bodies executed before the 
war and in former times. 

I might add another incident: The Germans told me when I was 
there that only a few days after the exhumations had begun, a Russian 
plane appeared over the forest and kept on circling over it for a long 
time, evidently eager to see what the Germans were doing in that 
forest — an observation plane. 

Mr. Flood, As a distinguished Swedish neutral newspaperman at 
that time, in view of the magnitude of this observation, this matter 
at the Katyn Forest, and in view of your personal observations there, 
would it have been possible for the Germans to have staged this whole 
thing as a propaganda show ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. We actually went there with this suspicion. We 
didii't all trust Goebbels and thought it would be possible he would 
be capable of doing such a thing. So our idea when we went from 
Smolensk to Katyn the first time was: "Let's try and get as much 
news as possible about conditions here in Russia and should we find 
or see any dead bodies, we shall report that matter just on a back 
page, not as an important item, because our Swedish press at home 
is sure to say : 'Leave atrocity stories to Goebbels'." But when I stood 
in front of the mass graves and when I realized what an atrocious 
crime had been perpetrated there, all my suspicions vanished and my 
own newspaper, at first, was not prepared to publish this report, but 
I insisted upon the report's being published because I said: "The 
world at large must know about this matter." 

Mr. Flood. Did you then and now have an opinion as to who com- 
mitted the m.urders at Katyn? We would like to have you express 
it, if you wish to. You don't have to, but if you wish to and have an 
opinion, will you tell us ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Then and now I was and I am absolutely con- 
vinced that the Russians committed it. I do not wish to say the Rus- 
sians. I would rather amend it to the NKVD. 

Mr. DoNDERO. Did all of the bodies that you saw at Katyn have 
their hands tied behind them ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. No; only single ones. 

Mr. Dondero. Did you see any more than one ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Yes'; I saw several. 

Mr. Dondero. Were they tied with rope or wire ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. Those, as far as I could see, were tied with rope. 

Mr. Dondero. What was the color of it ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I don't recollect. 

Mr. Dondero. Was it flat or round ? 

Mr. Jaederlunt. I must state that I went there as a journalist and 
not as a scientist. 

Mr. Dondero. That is all. 



1568 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Mr. O'Konski ? 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. No questions. 

Mr. Flood. The committee realizes that as a newspaperman and 
a Swede there was no particular occasion for you to come here. You 
appeared voluntarily, and we appreciate the valuable evidence you 
have o;iven us. 

Thank you. 

We will take a recess of 5 minutes. 

(Whereuj^on a recess was taken.) 

AFTER KECKSS 

Mr. Flood. The hearing will be in order. 
We will call Mr. Kramer. 

TESTIMONY OF RUDI KRAMER, 45 AM LINDENBAUM, FRANKFURT/ 
MAIN, GERMANY (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER, MR. VON 
HAHN) 

Mr. Flood. Do you object to being photographed, Mr. Kramer? 

Mr. Kramer. I would rather not have it. 

Mr. Flood. Then there will be no photographs of the witness. 

Will you give your name and your present address to the stenog- 
rapher, please? 

Mr. Kramer. Rudi Kramer, Frankfurt/Main, 45 am Lindenbaum. 

JNIr. P'lood. Mr. Kramer, we will have read to vou an admonition 
as a witness, that will be translated in German. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony so long as vou tell the truth. At 
the same tune, we wish to make it quite clear that neither the Govern- 
ment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 

^ \^i- T-^™^^^^^^"^"^ ^^'^"^^^ ^^^^y ^^'^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^"^t of your testimony. 

Mr. Flood. Does the witness understand the admonition? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Flood. Will you rise, then, and be sworn, please? 

Do you swear that the testimony vou are about to give will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Kramer. I sw^ear, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 

Mr. Kramer. Kramer. 

Mr. P'lood. What is your present occupation? 

Mr. Kramer. I am a director of the municipality, retired on pen- 
sion. ^ 

Mr. Flood. What municipality? 

Mr. Kramer. I was in charge'of the sports department in the town 
of Breslau. 

Mr. Flood. Where are you now residing? 

Mr. Kramer. Here in Frankfurt. 

Mr. Flood. Wei-e you ever identified with the German armed forces « 

Mr. Kratmer. Yes; I was. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1569 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever have occasion to serve on the Russian or 
Smolensk front ? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Were the matters of the Katyn massacre ever brought 
to your attention while you were in that area ? 

^fr. Kramer. I was present from the beginning to the end. 

Mr. Flood. What was your rank, and what was the nature of your 
unit serving in the Smolensk area at the time of the discovery of the 
graves by the Germans? 

Mr. Kramer. I was Sonderfuelirer "Z" — that is the rank of lieu- 
tenant — Avith the propaganda detail W in Smolensk. 

Mr. Flood. Who was the commanding officer of the propaganda 
unit at Smolensk when you served there ? 

Mr. Kramer. My direct superior was Lieutenant Anschuetz, and 
the C. O. was Gans. 

Mr. Flood. During your service in the Smolensk area did you ever 
have occasion to visit the Katyn Woods or the Dnieper Castle in that 
area generally before the graves were discovered? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know where the Dnieper Castle was located? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Flood. Did you walk, at any time, in the woods within, say, a 
thousand meters all around the castle ? 

Mr. Kramer. I did not get to the forest of Katyn before I had not 
heard from the local population of the existence of such graves. 

Mr. Flood. Will you detail for us, as best you remember, the con- 
versation 5'ou had with any Russian person of the area with reference 
to these graves in Katyn? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes, I can. 

Mr. Flood. In your own words. Please proceed. 

Mr. Kramer. I was detailed to the propaganda detail W at the 
beginning of March 1943. Originally I had been detailed to this unit 
as a sports officer, with the task of interesting myself in sports activi- 
ties of the military units, and also in connection with sports of the local 
population. 

I was instructed by the propaganda unit to work among the Rus- 
sian population, which was not anti-German at that time, to try and 
gain some influence on the Russian population and to foster pro- 
Gei'man feelings among them. We published a newspaper in the Rus- 
sian language and also had theatrical groups come out to the area to 
present shows for the Russian population, and thus we established close 
contacts with the Russian ])opulation. 

Behind the locality called Krasny Bor there was another place 
called Gniezdowo. I had to go to that place frequently on duty and 
had many conversations with the local people. On one of those oc- 
casions an old peasant, who was living right on the railroad line near 
the forest, told me that there were mass graves in the forest. He also 
said that there were several small crosses erected in the forest, and 
that the local population had the habit of going there on holidays and 
putting some flowers down near them. 

Mr. Flood. Did he indicate when these gi-aves had been made? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes, later. Later on I asked him, once, whether he 
could recollect when these graves had come into existence, and he said, 
"3 years ago." 



1570 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

]Mr. Flood. What was the date of the conversation when he said 
that ? 

Mr. Kramer. This conversation must have taken pLace about the 
middle or towards the end of March 1943, after we had transmitted 
the report of this peasant to the army group and had been instructed 
to investigate the matter. 

Mr, Flood. Do you talk or understand Russian ? 

Mr. Kramer. No, I always went out with an interpreter. 

The peasant related that, 3 years before, large transports had ar- 
rived at Gniezdowo station and that the men had been taken out of the 
boxcars at the station. In his opinion these men in the trains were 
not Russians, but Polish soldiers. Some of them were put into trucks 
and taken to the forest; other had to march from the station to the 
forest. 

Later on, some time later, I asked several of those peasants whether 
they recollected the approximate number of men who had been taken 
to the forest. They did not give any figure, but they said, "Very many, 
very many, and they kept on arriving for days and days," and not one 
of those that they had seen taken to the forest had ever returned from 
it. 

After having reported the matter to higher quarters, and after we 
had been instructed to investigate, we went into the forest and found 
sort of a clearing in it, planted with small trees, and we actually dis- 
covered two primitive crosses and also some dried flowers lying about. 

JNIr. Flood. What do you mean by "primitive crosses" ? 

Mr. Kramer. They were not carved in any way. Probably the 
people who had erected them had just cut off some wood and put it 
together. 

Mr. Flood. Do you use the word "primitive" to mean "ancient", or 
do you use it to mean "rude and clumsy" ? 

Mr. Kramer. I meant the second version, that they were made in a 
crude manner and that they also had been standing there for some 
time or other. 

Mr. Flood. What were the crosses made out of ? 

Mr. Kramer. I believe it was birchwood, but I am not quite certain 
about that. 

Mr. Flood. Proceed, please. 

Mr. Kramer. Some small distance from the graves, approximately 
200 or 300 meters, there was a house, a building, which was subse- 
quently used by the Germans, which was called the Dnieper Castle. 

I reported all that I had discovered to my unit, which, in its turn, 
transmitted the report to the army group. The army gi'oup then issued 
orders to start digging. 

Mr. Flood. These trees that you referred to as small trees, were they 
on or ai'ound the grave where the crosses were ? 

Mr. Kramer. There were no actual graves. The whole soil of the 
clearing was flat and uniform, no mounds of earth or anything and on 
this even clearing small trees were growing all over. 

Mr. Flood. Will you indicate with your hand, witness, from the 
floor, as you best recollect today, about the height of those trees, the 
small trees? 

Mr. Kramer. About so high [indicating]. 

Mr. Flood. The witness indicates in the area of 2i/^ to 3 feet. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1571 

Mr. Kkamer. On the very first day when digging started I was not 
out there, but I came there on the second or third day, and tliey were 
busy digging in an area of approximately tlie size of this room. They 
were digging down in many spots, and whenever they dug down they 
came upon dead bodies. The area might have been considerably 
larger than this room. It is not quite easy to estimate the size. 

The digging was done, then, in a systematic way. First of all, they 
dug down very deep so as to ascertain how far down the dead bodies 
reached into the ground, and then tliey opened up towards the sides. 

The dead bodies were lying in the grave, sticking together in one 
solid mass. They were sort of minnmified and dried out, probably for 
the lack of air which had not been able to get to the bodies, and that 
had caused a sort of mummification of the dead bodies. They were 
fully clad in uniforms, even with leather belts and everything that 
belonged to a uniform, and they all wore boots. Some of them had 
their hands tied behind their backs, but that was not uniform. • We 
f(!und some without their hands tied, and then there was one, again, 
with his hands tied, so it was diverse. 

I wish to state that these statements I made during the last few 
mimites came from my observations and investigations over some 
longish time. I have just been giving a survey of my observations 
covering some longish period. 

Mr. Flood. Yes. 

Mr. Kramer. In the meantime, Professor Buhtz, from Breslau, 
whom I had already known in Breslau because I had business with 
him there, had been put in charge of the exhumations, and because 
of the fact that I had known him before, I had quite a few good oppor- 
tunities of seeing things and learning things which, in the ordinary 
course of my duties, I would perhaps never have learned. 

All ranks were found in the graves among the dead bodies, ranging 
from generals down to assistant medical officers and cadets. Physi- 
cians were also found. 

The dead bodies were all lying in layers, very close together, and 
it was established by and by that 12 layers of dead bodies were 
stacked on each other. We also established that all the men had 
been killed by shots in the neck, and we assumed that the execution 
took place in such a way that one row of men had to lie down at the 
bottom of the pit with their faces down and had then been shot. Then 
the next row of men had to lie down on top of the men who had just 
been shot, and were killed subsequently, and so on, one layer after 
the other. This assumption is based on the fact that we found several 
bodies with more than one bullet hole. 

Several actions were coordinated there. First of all, we of the 
propaganda unit had been given the task to try and get international 
commissions to the graves so that they should investigate the thing. 
There were commissions — one international commission of medical 
experts; another commission consisted of foreign journalists; then 
there was also a commission of writers, authors, and artists, and also 
a commission of Western Allied Officer who were prisoners of war in 
Germany. I also recollect a large group of Polish clergymen who had 
been brought there, and then, subsequently, the relatives and next of 
kin of the murdered men started arriving from Poland. They kept 
on coming all the time, as soon as the identification of the dead bodies 
had begun. 



1572 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Siiuultaneously, we carried on our investi<!;ati()ns amono; the local 
])()pulation, so as to find out when these transports of prisoners had 
arrived in the area, and it was established from many statements 
that this happened in April 1940. This was further confirmed by the 
fact that all entries in diaries, pocket-books, etc., which we later found 
on the dead bodies, ended between April 16th and Apiil 19th, 1940. 
The third j^roof was established by oettino- forestry experts to come to 
this forest and examine the small trees, and they all established that the 
t rees had been in that spot for about ■^ years. 

The commissions that came to the graves were taken there by 
German officers. Once on the spot, they had full liberty to investigate 
on their own, to go about, to talk to the auxiliary volunteers who did 
the digging up, and also to talk to the local population. They were 
not hindered in any w^ay ; they could just do as they liked. Professor 
Buhtz also helped them in every way, and insofar as when these 
com'missions were especially interested in special dead bodies, and 
pointed them out, they were immediately taken out of the pits and 
the members of the commission were allowed to designate special 
bodies which they wanted to have taken out, and that was always 
done at their request. 

As the weather became warmer, gradually conditions became very 
unpleasant. There was a terrible smell, and millions of flies started 
collecting, so that it was imperative to rebury the bodies that had 
been taken out of the pits as quickly as possible. 

Up to the day when the exhumations ceased because it w^as becoming 
too hot, I estimate that about 3,000 bodies had been taken out of the 
pits, of which 800 had, by then, been identified. From the situation 
and the measurements of the graves, we made an estimate that there 
would probably be between 8,000 and 10,000 bodies in the ground. 

The population, in the course of all these investigations, became 
more talkative, and also pointed out to us that there w^ere more graves 
in the vicinity. Upon investigating tliose graves it w^as found that 
they merely contained civilians who had probabl}^ come to death dur- 
ing the fighting. At any rate, no more soldiers or any uniformed 
persons were found in the surroundings. 

On account of the great heat in the summer, the exhumations ceased 
approximately in July — it might have been a little earlier — and were 
to be restarted some time in September. However, my unit was trans- 
ferred to Italy from Smolensk early in September, so I am unable to 
state whether tlie exhumations ever began again or not. 

Mr. Flood. You say you don't know wdiether the exhinnations began 
again oi- not in September? 

Mr. Kramer. No ; I do not know that. 

Mr. Flood. Well, the military situation on the eastern front 
changed about that time, so that it w^as necessary for the Germans to 
withdraAv. Do you remember hearing about that ? 

Mr. Kramkr. Yes; that is correct. We heard in Italy, from some 
of our fellow soldiers who had remained in the Smolensk area, that 
Avlien tlie Russians came back into that area they were very eager to 
get to the Katyn Forest as quickly as possible. 

Mr. Ii.oon. That being the case, and since the graves were closed 
in tho summer before the exhumations were completed, it is entirely 
possible that if tlie graves were o])ene(l in September, or subsequently 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1573 

reopened, that additional missing Polish bodies might have been 
fonnd i 

Mr. Kramer. Yes, that is correct. In my estimation we only suc- 
ceeded in clearing about one-third of the area. Two-thirds was never 
touched by us because we didn't have time. 

Mr. Flood. You have heard of the other two prison camps, besides 
Kozielsk. of Starobielsk and Ostoskov^ 

Mr. Kramer. No, 1 have not. 

Mr. Flood. Now, according to your theory as to how the execu- 
(ions took place, with the prisoners forced to lie down flat on their 
faces over the ])reviously executed prisoners, you say that that in- 
dicated that bullet wounds, several bullet wounds, were found in other 
bodies. AVell, how would that theory produce that conclusion? 

Mr. Kramer. It was merely on the top layers that we made the 
discovery that some of the dead bodies had more than one wound, 
because further down it was impossible, you could not expect any hu- 
man being to actually climb down into the pits, because the stench 
was so terrible, the whole thing, that nobody could actually go down 
there, they could only be pulled out with hooks, or something like 
that. Therefore, we only noticed these several wounds in some bodies 
(HI the top layers. 

We noticed in several cases — not in each one, but in quite a few 
cases — on the top layers of the dead bodies, that the bullet which had 
penetrated the skull of the top bod}^ had gone on in the same direc 
tion and hit the bodies underneath, not in the same place where the 
bullet had hit the first body, but the way of the bullet, or the course 
of the bullet, was lying in exactly the same direction, so that it was 
unmistakable that the bottom body had been hit by the same bullet. 
That was why we established this theory. 

Mr. Flood. That is interesting, because there is medical testi- 
mony that certain bodies, some bodies, were found with more than 
one bullet wound, and that is an interesting observation to explain 
that. 

Mr. Dondero? 

Mr. Dondero. Were you at the Katyn graves, ]\Ir. Kramer, during 
April of that year? 

Mr. ICramer. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Dondero. What kind of weather do they have in that area ? 

Mr. Kramer. Partly there was still snow and ice in the area. 

Mr. Dondero. Were all of the bodies buried with their faces down ? 

Mr. Kramer. I did not see any body that was not buried with its 
face down. 

Mr. Dondero. Did you see any bodies with overcoats on ? 

Mr. Kramer. Yes, I recollect one general ; altogether two generals 
were found, and one general was still wearing a fur coat. 

Mr. Dondero. That is all. 

Mr. Flood. Mr. O'Konski? 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. No questions. 

Mr. Flood. We appreciate very much that you have come here and 
volunteered this testimony to the committee. It is important, and we 
thank you. 

Mr. Skarginsky. 



1574 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

TESTIMONY OF MATVEY SKARGINSKY (THROUGH THE INTERPEE- 
TER, MR. VON HAHN) 

Mr. Flood. Witness, do you object to being photographed? 

Mr. Skarginsky. No, I do not object. 

Mr. Flood. Will you please spell your full name ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. M-a-t-v-e-y S-k-a-r-g-i-n-s-k-y. 

Mr. Flood. We will now have an admonition read to the witness. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify it is our wish to invite your at- 
tention to the fact that under German law you will not be liable for 
slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for any- 
thing you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United Sates 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as the result of your testimony. 

Mr. Flood. Do you understand the admonition ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Flood. Please rise and be sworn. 

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I do, so help me God. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 
^ Mr. Skarginsky. Skarginsky, Matvey. 

Mr. Flood. What is your first name? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Matvey. 

Mr. Flood. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Skarginsky, In Elizavetgrad. 

Mr. Flood. You are a Russian? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever a member of the Russian armed forces? 

Mr. Skarginsky. At the end of the Czarist Army, and later on a 
member of the White Russian Army. 

Mr. Flood. Were you ever taken prisoner by the Germans? 

Mr. Skarginsky. No, I was not. 

Mr, Flood. In what way did you become identified with the German 
armed forces? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I received a mobilization order in Berlin in Octo- 
ber 1941, a mobilization order extending to non-German citizens. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever serve in the Smolensk area? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes; on several occasions during the last war. 

Mr. Flood. In what capacity did you serve with the Germans on 
the Smolensk front? 

Mr. SKAR(iiNSKY. At first, when Smolensk was cccupied in 1941, 
with the motorized heavy artillery detachment No. 808. 

Mr. Flood. Well, when did you first get to the city of Smolensk ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I do not quite recollect, but it was at the end 
of July — it was at the end of July or at the beginning of August 1941. 

Mr. Flood. Witness, will you raise your voice a little bit, please? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Just talk louder. 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1575 

Mr. Flood. You said you were born in Russia and you were mobil- 
ized by the Germans in Berlin. How and under what circumstances 
did you get to Berlin ? 

Mr. Skakginsky. I lived in Yugoslavia up to May 1941, and after 
the occupation of Yugoslavia by the Germans the Labor Office sent 
me to Germany for work, and that is how I got to Berlin. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. In other words, you served in the German armed 
forces not by choice but you were conscripted for that service, were 
you not ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. That is correct. 

Mr. O'KoNsKi. And you were serving against your will ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I was conscripted. I did not volunteer. I was 
conscripted and mobilized. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Now, will you tell us briefly what you know about 
the Katyn massacre i 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes. 

I was a member of this artillery unit which I mentioned up to 
October 1942. In October 1942 I was transferred to the staff head- 
quarters of the Ninth Army. The staff headquarters of this army 
were located in Sitschewka, in the Smolensk area. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Then, as I understand it, you were employed by 
the German staff as an interpreter because of your knowledge of the 
Russian language; is that correct? 

Mr. Skarginsky. That is correct. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Then in your job as interpreter, what assignment 
were you given by the German Staff regarding the Katyn massacre? 

Mr. Skarginsky. When tlie staff headquarters were transferred 
to Smolensk in February 1943, then rumors started spreading that 
somewhere in the Smolensk area there were mass graves and that 
these mass graves were located near the former NKVD recreation 
home in the vicinity of Katyn. I thereupon was given orders to 
interrogate the local population living in the vicinity of Katyn. 

I thereupon interrogated some 30 local peasants from three villages 
lying in that specific area. The name of the one village is Gniezdowo; 
the other two I do not recollect. 

And I also interrogated three railroad officials who were already 
railroad officials under the Russians and remained railroad officials in 
German services after the occupation had taken place. There were 
several railroad officials who were employed right at the Gniezdowo 
Station. 

The most interesting statement was given by one of those railroad 
employees, one of the officials. All the statements tallied in that 
respect, that early in the summer of 1940, freight trains started arriv- 
ing at the railroad station, containing Polish prisoners. The trains 
used to arrive shortly before midnight on every occasion. The box- 
cars were locked from the outside. In the small cabins where the 
brakemen sit, as is usual in Europe, there were NKVD guards guard- 
ing the train. The trains arrived at the station without any official 
papers, so that it could not be ascertained from where they were 
coming. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did the railroad station attendants tell you it was 
early spring of 1940 that these cars arrived ? 

i93744— 52— pt. 5 23 



1576 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Skarginsky. As far as I recollect, they told me that it was at 
the end of the spring or at the beginning of summer 1940. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did they mention any specific months ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I only recollect the year of 1940 and, as I said 
before, the end of the spring or beginning of summer. 

The prisoners who were in the boxcars were taken out of those 
railroad cars and marched off to the forest of Katyn in marching 
order ; it was four and four. Strict orders had been issued at that time 
that nobody was to approach the railroad line and the road leading 
from the station to the forest. All the railroad officials were also 
forbidden, those who were not right on duty at the station. Nobody 
was to approach the line or the road. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. There is one thing I would like to check with you. 

You testified a little eai-lier that you were conscripted in Berlin in 
October of 1941 ; then later you said you reached the Smolensk area 
in August 1941. Will you clear up those two dates? Evidently, you 
must have been confused. 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes, I made a mistake. I meant to say I had 
been mobilized in October 1941 and the first time I got to Smolensk 
was in November 1941, not in August; not in August but in November 
1941. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. You said that you interviewed about 30 natives and 
3 depot agents. Did they all agree as to the time of the arrival of the 
Polish soldiers, and did they also agree that they were disposed of by 
the Russians at that time ? 

Mr. SicARGiNSKY. The statements by all those various people dif- 
fered only to a very slight extent. It was only a matter of a month 
or two. Some of the people stated that the prisoners had arrived in 
May; others said they had arrived in June. But all the statements 
taken together very much tallied with each other. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. There was no native that you interviewed, or official 
that you interviewed, that said anything otherwise, to the contrary? 

Mr. Skargixsky. It was like this: Very detailed statements came 
from those railroad officials, because they were actually on the spot 
and saw the Polish prisoners being taken out of the boxcars or being 
marched away, because they were on duty at the trains, at the station. 

The peasants, however, were not allowed to come near the station 
or the forest and could only see things going on from afar. So they 
only said, "We saw some trains arriving and some people being taken 
out of the trains and some ])eople being marched away.'" But they 
could not say whether they had been Polish prisoners or whatever 
they were because they were too far away and the area was coi-doned 
off, so tliev could not get near the s])ot. 

But nobody ever made a statement different to this one. 

Mr. O'Koxski. Did you, in your process of interviewing, ever get 
ac(iuainted with a deputy mayor in Smolensk, by the name of Boris 
Basilevsky '!' 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes ; T did. He was second acting buergermeister 
of Smolensk. 

Mr. O'KoxsKi. Did you have any conversations witli him ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I only talked to him very little because I hardly 
knew him, but I know that shoi'tly before the Gei-maiis liad to evacuate 
Smolensk, he crossed over to the Soviets. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1577 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. You came here of your own accord to testify, did 
you not ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Yes ; quite of my own accord. 

I want to mention that I knew well the first buergermeister of 
Smolensk, by the name of Boris Menschagin. 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. Did he express any opinion as to who committed the 
crime at Katyn ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. I knew Menschagin very well; he was actually a 
friend of mine. His opinion all the time was that the Polish officers 
had been murdered by the Soviets. 

Mr. O'KoNSHi. Do you know what has become of Menschagin 
since ? 

Mr. Skarginsky. Menschagin I saw in Berlin in 1944 and 1945, 
and at the end of May 1945, Menschagin was in Karlsbad — it was just 
across the Czech-Slovakian border — which was occupied by the Ameri- 
cans at that time. But then, all of a sudden, one night the Soviets 
occupied Karlsbad, and a few hours afterwards, Menschagin was 
taken away by the Soviets and was never seen again. His wife is at 
present in the United States, in New York, with the children. 

Mr. Flood. We appreciate your coming here and we thank you for 
your testimony, Mr. Skarginsky. 

Mr. Skarginsky. Thank you. 

TESTIMONY OF KARL GENSCHOW, HACHENBURG, GERMANY 
(THROUGH INTERPRETER VON HAHN) 

Mr. Flood, Mr. Genschow. 

Do you object to being photographed? 

Mr. Gexschow. I have no objection to being photogTaphed. 

Mr. Flood. Will you spell your name? 

Mr. Genschow. Karl G-e-n-s-c-h-o-w. Hachenburg. 

]Mr. Flood. We are about to read you an admonition that we read 
to all Avitnesses before they testify. It will be read in English and 
then translated into German. 

Mr. Mitchell. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that, under German law, you will not be liable 
for slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for 
anything you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Gov- 
ernment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States 
assumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or 
slander proceedings which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Do you understand this statement? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes ; I understand. 

Mr. Flood. Will you rise and be sM'orn, please? 

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Genschow. I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your full name? 

Mr. Genschow. Karl Genschow^ 

Mr. Flood. What is your business ? 

Mr. Genschow. I was formerly president of the Gustav Genschow 
Co., and at present I am trustee of the same firm, which is under 
French supervision. 



1578 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Will you spell the name of the company ? 

Mr. Genschow. G-ii-s-t-a-v Genschow & Co. 

Mr. Flood. What is the business of that company? 

Mr. Genschow. Formerly the firm manufactured ammunition and 
weapons and exported these goods. 

Mr. Flood. Where was the main office of this company ? 

Mr. Genschow. In Berlin. 

Mr. Flood. Wliere is the chief manufacturing plant ? 

Mr. Genschow. The ammunition works were in Durlach, near 
Karlsruhe. 

Mr. Flood. How long has the company been in business? 

Mr. Genschow. The factory has been in existence since 1887 and 
the ammunition works since 1906. 

Mr. Flood. During that period of time, did the company ever manu- 
facture pistol ammunition? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Did it ever manufacture pistol ammunition of the 
caliber of 7.65 ? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes. 

Mr. Flood, Is that a very common type of caliber for pistol 
ammunition ? 

]Mr. Genschow, It is a very common type. 

Mr. P'lood. What was the trade-mark of the pistol ammunition on 
that caliber? 

Mr. Genschow, The trade-mark was changed several times in the 
course of the years. 

Mr. Flood. Will you give us some of the trade-mark names ? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes. The cartridges of the shells of this pistol 
ammunition carried, since the year 1933-34, the word "Geco'" on the 
bottom of the shell, and underneath the "Geco" was "7.65"'', 

Mr. Flood. Can 7.65 ammunition of the type manufactured by this 
firm be used in various kinds and makes of pistols? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes, it could; because it was a standard type of 
cartridire which could be used in very many different makes of pistols. 

Mr. Flood. Was it used internationally by various nations, police, 
or srmed forces, in pistols ? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes; certainly, 

Mr. Flood. Did this firm ever export pistol ammunition of the 
caliber 7.65 to Eastern Europe? 

Mr. Genschow, Yes; that is the case. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know what caliber of ammunition was used and 
what kind of pistol was used by the NKVD or the GPU from the year 
1933 until the end of the war? 

Mr. Genschow. No; I do not know that also, because since 1928 
we did not export large quantities of pistol ammunition to Soviet 
Russia; 

Mr. Flood. Did you export any quantities of 7.65 pistol annnunition 
to Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes; before 1928, somewhat larger amounts. 

But I wish to point out that at that time the stam]i on the bottom of 
Ihe cartridge was different from tlie one I stated before, and after 
1928 the (|uan(ities which were exported were small. 

Mr. Flood. But there were some quantities shipped to Soviet Russia 
after 1928, of 7.65 anuuuiiil ion bearing the "Geco" trade-mark? 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1579 

Mr. Genschow. Yes. 

I %A'ish to point out that the trade-mark which was used before 
1933-34, when the Latest trade-mark was introduced, also had the 
word "Geco" in it and "7.65.'' There was only the addition of two D's 
slightly underneath the right and left end of the word "Geco." 

Mr. Flood. So that the trade-mark ''Geco,'" regardless of the other 
details you are giving us, was on 7.65 ammunition shipped to Soviet 
Russia for some time ^ 

Mr. Genschow. Yes. Most probably, it may be that some deliveries 
took place in former years, before we put the word "Geco" on the 
bottom of the cartridges. There may have been some older deliveries 
many, many years ago, where it only stated "7.65" with a "D" under- 
neath. 

Mv. Flood. Can you keep 7.65 pistol ammunition for any length 
of time if it is properly cared for ^ 

Mr. Genschow. If you store it properly and if the cartridges re- 
main in their original packings, you can safely store it for 10 to 
20 years. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ship any ammunition to other eastern European 
countries, other than Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes : in particular, to the three Baltic States. 

Mr. Flood. What do you mean by the three Baltic States? 

Mr. Genschow. Esthonia, Latvia and Lithuania. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever ship any 7.65 pistol ammunition to the 
three Baltic States? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes ; I did export quantities which were consider- 
ably larger than those going to Soviet Russia, although not unduly 
large. 

Mr. Flood. What do you consider a small shipment in the number 
of units f 

Mv. Genschow. We did not export more than two or three thousand 
rounds to Soviet Russia after 19-28 ; but to the Baltic States, to my rec- 
ollection, we exported approximately 50,000 rounds to each of the 
three. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever export any pistol ammunition to Poland ? 

Mr. Genschow. We did not export any pistol ammunition to Poland 
during the time under review because conditions for such exports 
were not advantageous. We did, however, export shells and bullets 
separately to that country; which however, were marked differently 
so as to distinguish them from our original make which we used to 
export. 

Mr. Flood. Did you ever export any 7.65 pistol ammunition to 
Poland from 1933 up to 1940 ? 

INIr. Genschow. I do not recollect. I do not think that we did it. 

Mr. Flood. What about from 1923 to 1940 ? 

Mr. Genschow. It may be, but I do not recollect that because we 
had to stop our exports of ammunition to Poland all of a sudden 
owing to new customs regulations having come into force in Poland. 
But I do not recollect the year when that happened. 

Mr. Flood. Of course, you know that "Geco'' shells, cartridge shells, 
were found in the graves at Katyn, do you not ? 

Mr. GenschoW' . Yes. I learned that after the German Wehrmacht 
had made its investigations in Katyn. 



1580 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Was this matter ever brought to your attention by the 
then German authorities? 

Mr. Genschow. Not immediately. I only discussed this matter 
with the army high command and the weapons division. They 
requested me to submit extracts from our statistics on exports to for- 
eign countries, which we had carried out. And only in the course 
of these negotiations with the high command did I learn tliat this 
type of bullet and shells had been found in the Katyn graves. 

Mr. Flood. Did they inquire as to whether or not your firm ex- 
ported 7.65 ammunition to any of the countries in the Baltic or Eastern 
Europe ? 

Mr. Genschow. Yes; and we had to give accurate details of the 
quantities which had been exported to each single country and in 
what year. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any questions, Mr. Dondero ? 

Mr. DoNDERO. No questions. 

Mr. Flood. Mr. O'Konski? 

Mr. O'KoNSKi. No questions. 

Mr. Flood. We appreciate your coming here, Herr Director, and 
thank you very much for the testimony you have given. 

We will now adjourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, at which 
time we will hear the scientist, Dr. Orsos, and the Swiss doctor, 
Naville. 

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon the committee recessed, to recon- 
vene at 10 a. m. Saturday, April 26, 1952.) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



SATUBDAY, APRIL 26, 1953 

House or Representati\t:s, 
The Select Committee To Investigate the 

Frankfurt on 3£ain, Germany. 
The committee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in the main court- 
room, Resident Officer's Building, 45 Bockenheimer Anlage, Hon. Ray. 
J. Madden (cliairman) presiding. 

Present: Messrs. Madden, P'lood, Afaclirowicz, Dondero, and 
O'Konski. 

Also present : John J. Mitchell, chief counsel to the select committee, 
and Roman Pucinski, committee investigator and interpreter. 

Present also : Eckhardt von Hahn and Hilda Duplitza, interpreters. 
(The proceedings and testimony were translated into the German 
language. ) 

Chairman Madden. Dr. Tramsen. 

FURTHEK STATEMENT OF DR. HELGE TKAMSEN 

Mr. Flood. Doctor you were sworn and testified the other day, and 
we recall you for the purpose of detailing a little further your identi- 
fication of certain exhibits that are already in evidence. 

I am going to show you exhibits 49 through 59, inclusive, and ask 
you to take each one of them — they are marked on the back — and 
identify them, one by one. You don't have to identify every per- 
son in these group pictures, just identify the ones that you think are 
the outstanding personalities; and on the pictures that do not contain 
persons just give us a short description of the matters depicted thereon. 

Will you proceed, please? 

[Exhibits shown in Wednesday, April 23, 1952, hearing. See 

pp. 14.31-1440] 

Dr. Tramsen. All these pictures were taken by the German press 
officers, partly at Katyn, and a few in Berlin. 

Exhibit 49 shows a picture of a post-mortem autopsy which took 
place in Katyn. The picture shows me in the process of the post 
mortem, having opened the chest on the body of the Polish officer Cap- 
tain Szyminski. 

Exhibit 50 is another incident at the external examinations of the 
dead bodies in Katyn. Professor Hajek is just about removing one of 
the boots of the dead body, being watched by Professor Subek. 

Exhibit 51 shows another incident at the examinations of the iden- 
tification papers extracted from one of these bodies. Professor Milos- 

1581 



1582 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

lawitcli is just about opening one of these papers, and I am standing by 
watching. 

Exhibit 52 shows a cranium of one of these Polish officers, with a 
clear exit wound in the skull, and, it is clearly to be seen, a pistol bullet 
lying in the wound. 

Exhibit 53 shows the hands of a Polish officer tied by the cord 
mentioned before. 

Exhibit 54 shows a picture of one of the diaries of the Polish officers. 

Exhibit 55 shows the personal belongings of one of the Polish 
generals, with the name Smorawinski. In the left corner is shown a 
cigarette case with the initials of Polish names, a bankbook, a personal 
identification card Avith a photograph, and in the right corner yon see 
a commendation showing that this general was awarded the Polish or- 
der of Virtnti Military. 

Exhibit 56 shows one of the laboratories in the German Institute 
at Smolensk. Professor Miloslavich is holding a skull, and on the 
table in the foreground are another six skulls of Polish officers. 

Exhibit 57 shows the final meeting of the Committee at the Institute 
in Smolensk. The (xerman professor, Dr. Buhtz, is standing at the 
end of the table, and along the side is Professor Orsos, Professor 
Naville, Professor Palmieri, and several others of the members of 
the committee. 

Exhibit 58 shows a room in the German ministry of health in Berlin. 
In the foreground Professor Orsos is handing the committe's proctocol 
to Reichgesundheitsfuehrer Conte. In the background can be seen 
most of the members of the committee. 

Do you want me to name the names of these members? 

Mr. Flood. A resonable number; you don't have to name them all. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, Professor Palmieri, Professor Saxen, Profes- 
sor Speleers, Professor Hajek, Dr. Markhov, Dr. Birkle, and Dr. 
deBurlet. 

The last exhibit, No. 59, is taken in the courtyard of the Hotel Adlon 
in Berlin. After the final meal the committee was collected with 
Dr. Conte. The picture shows, from the left toward the right, Dr. 
Zietz, Professor Naville, Professor Subek, Professor Palmieri. Pro- 
fessor ]\Iiloslavich, Professor Hajek, Professor Orsos, me. Dr. Conte, 
Dr. Markhov, Professor Buhtz, Profesor de Burlet, Profesor Speleers, 
Dr. Costedoat, Profesor Saxen, and two German secretaries from 
the ministry of health. 

That is the total number. 

Mr. Flood. There are also exhibit 60 and exhibit 66. 

Dr. Tramsen. Exhibit 60 shows the castle in the woods of Katyn, 
and a few members of the committee walking past it in the foreground, 
and between them Professor Orsos. 

Exhibit 66 is a photograph of a Polish diary in which can be clearly 
seen the last written page, and here is the date given, as the 9th of 
April. 

Mr. DoNDERo. What year? 

Dr. Tramsen. No year. 

May T ask a ouestion? 

Ml'. Flood. You may; yes. 

Dr. TrAiSfsex. If the protocol signed in ]ierson by the various mem- 
bers of the connnittee will ])e of any use foi- the congressional 
committee. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1583 

Mr. Flood. Now, do I understand that the document you have there 
is a coi)y of the protocol with the actual signatures of the scientific 
members to the commission? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; that is so. 

Mr. Flood. Made in your presence? 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes, signed in my presence and by the members 
themselves. 

Mr. Flood. Let the committee see the last page of the signatures for 
a moment, please. 

(Document submitted to the committee.) 

Mr. Flood [continuing]. We have the protocol in the record. There 
would be no sense in reproducing the protocol itself, but we would like 
to see page 7 thereof, which you say contains the signatures of the 
members made in your presence. 

We appreciate, Doctor, you showing us this extremely interesting 
and important exhibit. There is no reason why this should be added 
to the record, but we are grateful for the opportunity of seeing the 
original signatures. This original protocol will be placed in the per- 
manent archives of the committee. 

Now I will ask the stenographer to mark for identification some 
other photographs, which there will be no need to identify in any 
further detail, as exhibits Nos. 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 
94, 95, 96, 97, and 98. And in that last group these photographs are 
of significance because they indicate the conversation between the 
members of the commission and the Eussian native ; they indicate the 
meeting of Dr. Orsos, with the skull from which he was expounding 
his tlieory of calcification in the brain pulp; Dr. Orsos indicating the 
body which he wished removed, and the removal of that body from 
the grave; and the Swiss Dr. Naville and the Italian Dr. Palmieri 
examining an obviously badly decomposed corpse; and the best aerial 
photo that we have observed so far of the Katyn Forest area in the 
vicinity of the Dnieper Castle. 

(The photographs referred to were marked Frankfurt exhibits Nos. 
84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, and 98, and are shown 
on pp. 1584-1596.) 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, I show you photographs marked for identifi- 
cation as exhibits 84 to 98, inclusive, and I ask you whether or not they 
are the photographs of, and generally reflect, as I have indicated, the 
incidents at Katyn during your visit with the commission. 

Dr. Tramsen. Yes ; they are. 

Mr. Flood. We will offer those in evidence. 

(Exhibits 84 to 98, inclusive, shown below :) 

Mr. Flood. Thank you, Doctor, for the second time. That will be 
all. 

Dr. Orsos. 



1584 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

EXHTRTT 84 





Conversation between members of tin d 



Commission and a Russian 



native. 

Exhibit 85 






Dr. Biilitz and Medical Commission iuciiiIhts examinini; one of the exlniiiied bodies. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 86 



1585 




Dr. Palmiei'i (right) in conversation with unidentified man at Katyn. 
Exhibit 87 




Professor Hajek holding arm of Katyn victim. 



1586 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 88 




Dr. Orsos explains theory of calcification in brain pulp to the members to the Commission. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 89 



1587 




Dr. Orsos (Hungarj-) and Professor Saxen (Finlandj examining exluimed Katyii cciriisc. 



1588 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 90 




Dr. Uiso« (Iluuyary) perfoimiug autopsy being watched by I'rolessor Saxeu (Fiiilaud) and 

German soldier assisting. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 91 



1589 







^iSi 



*^<-^***AA*^>^«Si»' ■**«;* ■^'^'«**- ■■ 





Dr. Orsos (Hungary) indicating body to be exhumed and its removal. 



1590 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Exhibit 92 




(Right to let U l->r. Navillc (Swiss) and Dr. Palmeri (Italian) examining badly dccdinpiistMl 

corpse. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 08 



1591 








Exhumation of of Katyn victim — watching at edge of pit is Dr. Orsos (Hungary) and others. 



93744— 52— pt. 5 24 



1592 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 94 




^ "-^.^ie»jyi^ 




View of bodies in graves. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



1593 



Exhibit 95 





View of partial exhumation of bodies at Katyn. 



1594 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



m 




Aeri:jl view of Kalyn forest ;iroa in vicinity of Dniiper Ca-stlo. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 97 



1595 






Exhumed Katyn victim. 



1596 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 





THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1597 

TESTIMONY OF DR. FERENC ORSOS, MAINZ, GERMANY (THROUGH 
THE INTERPRETER, MR. VON HAHN) 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, do you have any objections to being photo- 
graphed ^ 

Dr. Orsos. Yes, I do object. 

Mr, Flood. You object? Very well. Doctor, please give your 
name, the correct spelling of your name, and your present address, to 
the stenographer. 

Dr. Orsos, Ferenc Orsos. 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, I will make a statement for your con- 
sideration : 

Before you testify it is our wish to invite your attention to the fact 
that under German law you will not be liable for slander or libel, 
either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for anything you may say 
in your testimony, so long as you tell the truth. At the same time 
it is our wish to make it quite clear that neither the Government of 
the United States nor the Congress of the United States assumes any 
responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander proceed- 
ings which may arise as the result of your testimony. 

Dr. Orsos. I understand. 

Chairman Madden. Now stand and be sworn, please. 

Dr. Orsos. What shall I swear? What oath am I to take? 

Chairman Madden. The customary oath. 

Dr. Orsos. I have been admitted to courts as an expert for judicial 
medicine for forty years, I took an oath at the beginning of my 
career, and I believe that if I took another oath again, that would 
only be detrimental to my reputation. 

Mr, Flood. Please explain to the doctor that this committee has 
no doubt at all about the doctor's integrity and his great reputation 
and distinction, but that under the practices of the House of Repre- 
sentatives the oath is a formality that the House of Reipresentatives 
requires in giving testimony. However, if the doctor does not wish 
to take a solemn oath, he can merely affirm that the testimony he gives 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and in 
that case the sworn oath of the nature we generally administer will not 
be required ; he can merely affirm, 

Dr, Orsos. During my whole career, every time I have had to tes- 
tify it was pointed out to me that on the occasion of my permanent 
appointment for life as an expert for judicial medicine I was reminded 
that I had taken the oath on my appointment, and before every pro- 
ceeding this fact was pointed out to me, and that was regarded as 
being sufficient. 

So, if the committee would just point out to me and ask me to re- 
member my first oath, that would tally with my practice. 

Mr, Flood. We have no objection to taking the testimony under 
those circumstances, and at this time we take this occasion to remind 
the doctor of his oath taken as a scientist for this purpose, as he has 
just described, 

Dr, Orsos, Yes. 

Mr. Flood, And, of course, the doctor affirms that the testimony 
will be the truth at this conference. 

Dr. Orsos. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Flood. Then I think we are in complete agreement. 



1598 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Doctor, wliiit is your mime? 

Dr. Oksos. Ferenc Orsos. 

Mr. P^AK)i), Where were you born? 

Dr. Oksos. In Temesvar, Hungary. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, will you please tell us from what schools or 
universities you graduated, and what were your degrees and courses? 

Dr. Orsos. Only the degrees obtained from universities, or every- 
thing? 

Mr. Flood. In the field of pathology and forensic medicine. 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. In Budapest University. Then I became an 
assistant doctor, physician, in Budapest, and from 1906 I was chief 
prosektor and expert for judicial medicine in Pecs. 

Mr. Flood. In your long experience as a pathologist did you ever 
liave occasion, Doctor, to perform autopsies and post mortems upon 
dead bodies and disinterred corpses? 

Dr. Orsos. In many hundreds of cases. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, will you now please direct your attention to the 
year 1943 and the matter of the Katyn massacres ? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes ; I will. 

Mr. Flood. And, Doctor, where were you living and in what prac- 
tice were you engaged in xlpril of 1943 ? 

Dr. Orsos. I was a professor of judicial medicine and director of 
the department for judicial medicine at Budapest University and at 
the Institute for Judicial Medicine in Budapest. At the same time 
I was expert for judicial medicine for all high courts in the surround- 
ings of Budapest. 

Mr. Flood. How were you invited, and under what circumstances, to 
participate in the scientific investigations at Katyn? 

Dr. Orsos. I was called upon by the Hungarian Foreign Office and 
the Ministry of Culture to take part in this international commission, 
in view of the fact that I was the only professor of forensic medicine 
and expert in this field, and there was no other expert like me in all 
the five universities in Hungary. I was exclusively engaged in forensic 
medicine in Hungary and did not do any other work, whereas my col- 
leagues from the other universities were only doing this kind of work 
occasionally, acting for others, and that was the reason why I was 
asked to be a member of this connnission. 

Mr. Flood. Then you were invited by the Foreign Office of your 
own Government and not directly and })ersonally by the then German 
Government ? 

Dr. Orsos. That is correct. I presume that the then German Gov- 
ernment had previously negotiated with the Hungarian Government 
about tliis matter. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know a Dr. Conte, a German, a Dr. Buhtz, a 
German, and a Dr. Zietz, a German? Do you recall them? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Flood. Will you tell us Avho they were and in what way they 
were identified witli this connnission? 

Dr. Orsos. Dr. Gonte was the so-called Reich health leader, and, 
at the same time, president of the Reich medical chamber. 

Buhtz, Professor Buhtz, was an oxi)ert for forensic medicine at 
Breslau. in Silesia. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1599 

Dr. Zietz is a German, and he accompanied us to that area and 
made all arrangements for our accommodations, etc., and just cared 
for us. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, in your own words, then — and I am sure you 
are capable of doing so very well — would you take us, now, to Katyn 
and describe your observations and autopsies performed there? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. After our return to Berlin from Katyn, and after 
we had handed the protocol to Dr. Conte, all of us, that is, all the 
commission, undertook not to disclose anything about our Katyn in- 
vestigations, neither by the spoken word nor in writing, unless some 
new scientific points would come up and we would find it necessary 
to make additions to our original protocol. That is because we were 
only asked to act as experts for forensic medicine. We only had to 
answer two questions. Everything that we saw at Katyn we entered 
in our protocol after a very careful and thorough discussion among 
ourselves. We were aware of the fact that if we were to talk about 
the things that we had seen we would destroy the scientific value of 
our protocol and would probably be a party to propaganda. 

That is all. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, did you observe the bodies in the graves? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes, I did; certainly I did. 

Mr. Flood. And did you yourself perform any autopsies or post 
mortems on any of the bodies? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. Did you reach any conclusion as to the cause of death? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes, I did. and you will find that in the protocol. 

Mr. Flood. Was the cause of death in any of the bodies, or any 
body out of the group that you examined, a gunshot wound in the 
head ? 

Dr. Orsos. That is also stated in detail in the protocol. 

Mr. Flood. And did you have occasion to observe wliether or not 
the gunshot wounds — if they were the cause of death, as described 
in the protocol — were fired proximate to the skull i 

Dr. Orsos. The protocol even states the distance in inches or meas- 
urements in centimeters. 

Mr. Flood. And did you observe, Doctor, that the bodies that were 
discovered in the graves and that you saw there were dressed in the 
uniforms of Polish officers? 

Dr. Orsos. That is also stated in detail in the protocol. 

Mr. Flood. And did you. Doctor, as indicated by pictures now in 
evidence, and as indicated in the protocol, talk to certain Russian 
inhabitants of the area ? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Flood. And did you observe, Doctor, on certain of the bodies, 
that the hands were tied behind the back in a certain way ? 

Dr. Orsos. This was also laid down in the protocol. 

Mr. Flood. And as is evidenced by certain photographs taken on 
the s])ot and now in evidence ? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. And did you observe, Doctor, that certain of the bodies 
were wearing overcoats or greatcoats, or what could be described as 
winter clothing ? 



1600 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Oksos. AVe investigated all these matters in full detail and put 
all these details into the protocol. 

Mr. Flood. AjkI did you observe, Doctor, on the bodies of some of 
the corpses taken from the grave and in the area and in certain 
exhibits, documents, and personal belongings of the dead officers? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. And did you, Doctor, in the presence of your fellow 
scientists, expound to them, using as an exhibit a skull opened by you, 
a certain theory of calcification of brain pulp? 

Dr. Oksos. Those were no theories; those were experiences of a 
period of more than 30 years. 

Mr. Flood. And you expounded them as a scientific fact ? 

Dr. Ohsos. Yes ; that is so. 

Mr. PYooD. Do you care to outline for the benefit of the committee 
generally, Doctor, the Orsos theory on the calcification of brain pulp 
in the skull and organic changes brought about by interment, which 
would indicate the time in which the body had been buried? 

Dr. Orsos. No ; I am not prepared to do it. But I am handing you 
the heading of an article which I published in a scientific paper, copies 
of which you will find in any scientific library, and all details of this 
teaching of mine can be found in this article. 

Mr. Flood. Will you place in the record and translate into English 
the name and the address of this article, dealing with this theory of 
organic change of the skulls? 

Mr. VON Hahn. It is in Hungarian. 

Mr. Flood. Then place it in the record as it is given you by the 
witness. 

(The following was contained on the document produced by the 
witness and was translated into German by the witness:) 

Orvosi Hetilap (Athenaeum Burlapest) 

1941, No. 11 
A halal utani csontmesztelenecles, szuvasodas es pseudocallus. 

Mr. VON Hahn. The English version is approximately : 

The post mortal decalcification, callus, and pseudocallus on bones. 

That is the title of the article. 

Mr, Flood. Doctor, did you point out to the scientists at Katyn, as 
indicated in the protocol and in the photograph, evidences of that 
scientific conclusion ? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Flood. And did you. Doctor, at the conclusion of your autopsies 
and analysis, sign such a protocol, as you have referrecl to it? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes; I did. 

I would like to add something. We discussed all the matters the 
whole afternoon in every detail after we had finished with the post 
mortems. I wrote down every remark made by all the members of 
the connnissi(m. Then I dictated the medical pavt of the protocol. 

We finished up at 3 o'clock in the morning. Then we went to the 
mess hall. Some of my colleagues had already gone to bed. And very 
early in the morning we left on our return flight in three jdanes. 

The protocol had been read out to us in this mess hall, in this can- 
teen, the mainiscript, the draft, and when we reached the town of 
Bialystok on our return flight, a military plane caught up wiWh us 
witli miiiu'ograplied copies of the |)r()toc()l. There, at that place, we 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1601 

liad about one and a half hours to read through the protocols and 
to sign them, and then we continued our return flight to Berlin. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, did you read the protocol and did you sign 
it? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Flood. Do you subscribe today to your signature and to the 
protocol ? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Flood. Your distinguished, the Danish scientist Tramsen, has 
placed in the hands of the committee a copy of the protocol signed 
by the members of the commission, including you. Dr. Orsos. I 
show you, Dr. Orsos, Dr. Tramsen's copy and ask you if that is your 
signature on page 7^ 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. I confirm this to be my signature. Each one of 
us was handed such a copy of the protocol. 

Mr. Flood. Is it not true that the distinguished doctor himself 
was chairman of the commission and Avas elected as such by his fellow 
members ? 

Dr. Orses. Apparently, if my colleagues agreed with that, it was 
probably because I was the oldest in age and the most experienced 
scientist in this field, in view of the fact that I had carried out more 
than 80,000 autopsies. So if my colleagues agreed to that, tlien I was 
the chairman of this committee. 

Mr. Flood. I might state, Doctor, that your distinguished colleagues 
Miloslavich, the Croat, and the Dane, Tramsen, have so advised us 
and agreed. 

Dr. Orsos. I cannot confirm that I was officially appointed chairman 
of the commission, but it was a gentlemen's agreement. 

Mr. Flood. There is no doubt in the mind of the committee that 
because of the doctor's distinction and vast experience, if he had 
not been he should have been so appointed. 

Dr. Orsos. Actually, we were all the same in the commission and, 
actually, I was only requested to take the chair during our discussions 
and at our meetings. It was on that afternoon which I mentioned 
before. 

Mr. Flood. I show you. Doctor, certain photographs placed in evi- 
dence by Dr. Tramsen, the Danish scientist and a member of the 
commission, upon which the distinguished witness now on the stand 
appears at various times, and ask you whether or not you can iden- 
tify yourself on those photographs ? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. I am to be seen on each one of them. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, do you have any further statements to make? 

Dr. Orsos. Yes. And, in fact, the one thing which I have much 
at heart is that my name should not be published in the papers. I 
do not M'ant to be pointed out in the papers because it would prejudice 
my present position. 

Mr. Flood. I might point out. Doctor, that the committee indicates 
that tlie press is present. We have no control over the action of the 
public press, but we merely direct the attention of the press to the re- 
quest of the witness. 

Dr. Orsos. I would like to add, in connection with Katyn, that we, 
the membei-s of the commission, w^ere allowed to select single dead 
bodies in the pits, so that those were brought up which we had specially 
desimiated. 



1502 THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 

I have no more to say. 

Mr. P'lood. I will say to the doctor for the committee that we have 
always been impressed by his ^reat distinction. We know how busy 
he is in his (hities today, and we are very grateful that he would take the 
time to come here and help us with these proceedings. 

Thank you very much, doctor. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. FRANCOIS NAVIILE, GENEVA, SWITZERLAND 
(THROUGH FRENCH INTERPRETER, HILDA DUPLITZA) 

Mr. Flood. In view of the fact that the next witness I am advised, 
will testify in French, it will be necessary to have a Franch translator, 
and then the French will be translated into German and so on. 

Mr. Chairman, will you swear the French interpreter? 

What is your name ? 

Miss DuPLiTZA. Hilda Duplitza. 

Chairman Madden. Do you solemnly swear that you will interpret 
the testimony and translate from French into English, and vice versa^ 
truthfully; so help you God? 

Miss Duplitza. I do. 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, do you object to being photographed? 

Dr. Naville. No photographs. 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, would you state your name and address 
to the reporter, please ? 

Dr. Naville. Naville, Francois ; 68 years old. 

Chairman Madden. Before you testify, it is our wish to invite your 
attention to the fact that, under the German law^, you will not be liable 
for slander or libel, either in criminal or in civil proceedings, for 
anything you may say in your testimony, so long as you tell tlie truth. 
At the same time, I wish to make it quite clear that neither the Govern- 
ment of the United States nor the Congress of the United States as- 
sumes any responsibility in your behalf with respect to libel or slander 
proceeding which may arise as a result of your testimony. 

Dr. Naville. Yes; I agree. 

Chairman Madden. Will you be Bw^orn? 

Do you swear that you will, according to the best of your knowledge, 
tell the trutli, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth ; so help you 
God? 

Dr. Naville. I do. 

Mr. Flood. What is your name? 

Dr. Naville. Naville. 

Mr. Fix>oD. Where were you born ? 

Dr. Naville. In Switzerland; Neuchatel. 

Mr. Flood. Are you a Swiss citizen ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Wliat is your profession? 

Dr. Naville. A professor of forensic medicine in Geneva. 

Mr. Flood. In what universities did you take your degrees in path- 
ology and forensic medicine? 

Dr. Naville. In (ireneva. 

Mr. Flood. TTow long have j-ou been engaged in your profession ? 

Dr. Naville. 40 years. 



THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 1603 

Mr. Flood. In the practice of your profession, Doctor, have you 
ever had occasion to perform post mortenis or autopsies upon dead 
bodies or upon corpses disinterred ? 

Dr. Naville, I want to say that at the Forensic Institute in Geneva, 
we have approximately 150 corpses to examine during the period 
of a year. 

Mr. Flood. I direct your attention to the year of 1943 and ask you 
whether or not, at any time in that year, your attention was directed 
to the massacres at Katyn ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. How were you invited, and by whom, to become a mem- 
ber of the international medical commission at Katyn ? 

Dr. Naville. Through the Polish Red Cross and the German Red 
Cross, the government had been asked to form an international com- 
mission, and the Russian Government at that time disagreed. And 
at that time a private commission was formed, and I was asked to 
become a member of this commission. 

Mr. Flood. Who asked you to become a member ? 

Dr. Naville. Through the German consulate in Geneva. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, do you know a Dr. Conti, a Dr. Buhtz and a 
Dr. Zietz? 

Dr. Naville. I made their acquaintance only on the occasion of 
Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. Will you tell us who each one is, as you remember ? 

Dr. Naville. Dr. Conti was the chief of the Reich Health Ministry. 
Dr. Buhtz at that time was in charge in Smolensk, of all forensic 
all'airs in general, or only with Katyn; I am not sure about that. 

Dr. Zietz is not a physician, he is a phililogist, and he was in charge 
only of the administrative part of these affairs, and he was a member 
of the Medical Chamber of Germany. He should be asked what he 
did exactly at the time because I don't know. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, Dr. Zietz has already testified. 

Doctor, will you tell us now what transpired when you arrived at 
Katyn with your fellow-scientists on the commission ? 

Dr. Naville, We s]:)ent 2 days or a part of 2 days in the wood of 
Katyn, and we saw about 800 or a thousand corpses; and we made 
about 10 autopsies, not all myself but among my colleagues. 

I want to emphasize the fact that we did not make autopsies on 
corpses that were pointed out to us, but we selected the corpse on which 
we desired to make an autopsy, 

Mr, Machrowicz, I have one question there. Doctor, 

Did you select them from the corpses that were already exhumed, or 
those that were obviously untouched before you came there? 

Dr, Naville, The corpses that were still in the grave. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, can you tell us whether or not the Germans 
cooperated in any way, or did they interfere with your scientific exper- 
iments in any way at all ? 

Dr. Naville. No, We were completely free to do what we wanted 
to. We could stay on the left hand side or the right. Then I myself 
walked out on the forest, the wood. I was together with a French 
doctor by the name of Costedoat, who spoke Russian, I went along 
with him. And I also interrogated some Russian natives who were 
working there. 

Mr. Flood. Did you have an opportunity, Doctor, to talk to any 
Russian inhabitants of the area? 



1604 THE KATYX FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Xaville. Xot directly. Those people luid been heard by all our 
people to<rether but not by me personally. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall the substance of any of the conversation 
that was liad befol-e the whole grouj) with any of these Russian peas- 
tants in the neighborhood? 

Dr. Naville. Not very clearly. Professor Orsos, who spoke Rus- 
sian, interro<;ated these peo])le and 1 was told that they had said that; 
l)ut. naturally, of course, I could not speak any Russian and I don't 
know wliat they were talking about. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, did you examine any of the corpses, with partic- 
ular attention to the cause of death ? 

Dr. Xaville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. What, jn yonr opinion. Doctor, was the cause of death? 

Dr. Naville. Shots that were fired in the skull from a very near 
distance. 

Mr. Flood. What were the facts that led you to conclude that the 
shots were fired from a very near distance ? 

Dr. Naville. First of all, because it had been aimed vei-y carefully,, 
and then because there were some poAvder burns. 

I want to remark here that in the newspapers it was published that 
these people had been killed by machine guns; but this is not correct. 

Mr. Flood. What is your opinion. Doctor, as to how they were 
killed ? 

Dr. Naville. I think that they must have been standing. I don't 
believe that tliey had been lying'. I believe they had been standing 
when they were shot. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, had you ever had any experience, before you 
went to Katyn, in the examination of bodies where the cause of death 
had been guiisliot wounds, particularly fired by pistol ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any opinion. Doctor, as to what kind of 
weapon was used in the killing ? 

Dr. Naville. If this has been referred to in the protocol, I don't re- 
member the caliber any more. 

Mr. Flood. Could it have been a pistol ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Is it possible for you to say. Doctor, from the similarity 
of the wounds, the shots having been fired close to the skull in all 
cases, and from the course of the bullets and the other circumstances; 
is it possible f oi- you to say. Doctor, from your long experience in such 
matters, that these killings had all been done by pistol and with a 
very practiced hand? 

Dr. Naville. Naturally, a person with some experience. And from 
these powder marks, you could determine that these shots had been 
fired from at least 10 centimeters (about (> inches). 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, will you demonstrate upon the interpreter, if 
vou will be so kind, the point of entrv and the point of exit of the 
shot? 

(Dr. Naville indicated on Inter])reter von Hahn.) 

The doctoi" indicates the point of entry as the base of the skull, at 
the hair line of the neck, the general area. 

Dr. Naville (indicating on INfr. von Hahn). And the exit of the 
bullet depended on the occasion. Sometimes it was here, here, or there. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1605 

It depended on from where the shot was fired, from what direction. 

And there were corpses who liad received many shots. 

Mr. Flood. The point of exit was indicated by the doctor on the 
subject as being between the hair line and the eyebrows, in the gen- 
eral area of the forehead. 

Dr. Xaville. Yes. 

j\Ir. Flood. Did you observe, on any of the bodies, wounds made 
by any other instrument than a pistol or a gunshot wound ? 

Dr. Naville. No. I had been show^n a piece of clothing showing a 
square hole made by a four-edged bayonet, but I am not sure whether 
this piece of cloth was from one of the corpses lying in the grave there, 
or from any other thing. 

JNIr. Flood. Did yon observe, Doctor, that any of the corpses had 
their hands tied behind their backs I 

Dr. Naville. Yes. We saw a small number. I remember, I am not 
quite sure, I know, I had been told that there had been a number of 
those corpses Avho had the hands tied behind their backs. I think I 
saw a small number myself, but I am not quite positive. 

Ml'. Flood. "Were you shown any bodies that were described to j^ou 
as having been found in the general area of the graves but were said 
to be the bodies of Russian civilians buried some time before the Katyn 
bodies ? 

Dr. Naville. One or tAvo. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall, Doctor, whether or not any of those bodies 
were female? 

Dr. Naville. No. 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember whether or not those bodies had their 
liands tied behind their backs? 

Dr. Naville. Yes, they had. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall, doctor, whether or not any of those bodies 
had a cloth thrown over the head, with a rope tied around the cloth at 
the neck ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. I saw it. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any observation to make with reference to 
the growth of the trees that M^ere identified with the Katyn graves ? 

Dr. Navilij:. In this forest there were big trees and also small trees 
about that high [indicating]. And I remember someone had stated 
that they had been somewhere else before. Whether they had been 
taken away from there I cannot recall. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall, doctor, wdiether or not, at a meeting in 
Smolensk, after the commission had visited the graves, whether or not a 
professional German forester demonstrated anything with reference 
to small trees said to have been taken from the grave? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. I recall it very well. And I have here a photo- 
graph showing these exactly, the special examination of these made 
by this man. 

Mr. Flood. Will you have the stenographer mark this photograph 
as exhibit 90 ? 

(The photograph referred to Avas marked for identification as "Ex- 
hibit 99" and folloAvs:) 



1606 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 99 




Gcriiiiiii I'lircstcrs m.-ikiiij; lalxiratory tests of trees Iroiii Katvii Forest. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1607 

Dr. Naville. I am not an expert on botany, I am not a forester; 
so I don't know anything about it. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall, doctor, anything that was said by the 
forestry expert at that meeting in Smolensk, with reference to the 
small trees said to have been taken from the top of the grave and dis- 
cussed at the time the picture was taken ? 

Dr. Naville, Yes. He said that these trees are about 5 years old and 
that they had been transplanted about 3 years prior to that time. 
But the one that I saw had, in my opinion, more than 5 years. And, 
actually, I have seen the cut of these trees, and I have seen some lines 
were closer to each other, and they might have been more than 3 years, 

Mr. Flood. What kind of uniform, if you know, was on the bodies d^ 
Katyn ? 

Dr. Naville. I believe they were all Polish uniforms. 

I have here some buttons I have brought along. 

Mr. Flood. Will you let me have one of them ? 

Dr. Naville. The eagle is better on this one [producing button.] 

Mr. Flood. Do you mean the Polish eagle ? 

Dr. Naville. I believe so. 

Mr. Flood. Do you know, Doctor, from what material those buttons 
are made ? 

Dr. Naville. No, I do not know. They are probably aluminum; 
I am not sure. 

Mr. Flood. Aluminum does not generally rust, does it ? 

Dr. Naville. No. 

Mr. Flood. Will you have this envelope marked as "Exhibit 100"^ 
containing a uniform button taken from a Polish officer's uniform, as 
mentioned by the doctor ? 

(The envelope referred to, containing a uniform button, was marked 
for identification as "Exhibit 100," and is in the committee files of 
which photogi'aph is shown.) 

Mr, Flood. I now show the witness this envelope marked for identi- 
fication as "Exhibit 100," and ask him whether or not it contains the 
button he just showed the committee. 

Dr. Naville. I am not quite sure. I see the eagle better than before. 

Mr. Flood. Then, doctor, for the record, will you select from the 
envelope that you brought with you, a button from one of the uniforms 
and place it in the envelope marked "Exhibit 100"? 

Did you observe whether or not any of the bodies had any overcoats,, 
or great coats, or winter uniforms ? 

Mr. Machrowicz. I think the record should show that in answer 
to Congressman Flood's question, the doctor has selected a button 
and placed it in the envelope marked "Exhibit 100". (Exhibit lOO 
shown below.) 

Exhibit 100 



/ 






Button taken from Polish officer's uniform. 
93744— 52— pt. 5 25 



1608 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Naville. Yes, they wore winter clothing. 

Mr. Flood. Did you observe whether or not there were any docu- 
ments or personal belongings or objects on any of the bodies, and 
did you see any such things ? 

Dr. Naville. I have here a picture on which I am seen just taking 
out of the pocket of one of the bodies a box of matches, and I have 
a photograph of this box of matches in my possession. I also found 
a cigarette holder which has an inscription Kozielsk on it, and, when 
1 found this cigarette holder, I remember that there was an inscrip- 
tion on it of 1939-1940, but you can't see it any more. There is a 
pencil copy of the Kussian text and also of the French translation, 
on the photograph. 

Mr. Flood. I now ask the stenographer to mark for identification 
as exhibits 101, lOlA, and 102 this envelope containing the documents 
and translations and the photograph of the match box top as just 
described by the doctor as having been taken by him from one of the 
bodies at the Katyn graves. 

(The above described envelope was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit 
102," and follows.) 

Exhibits 101 and lOlA 




Box of matches and documents removed from exhumed body. 



THE KATYlSr FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 102 



1609 



Document removed from exhumed body. 

Mr. Flood. I now show the doctor that exhibit and ask him whether 
or not that envelope contains the papers and the photograph of the 
match box top he just handed to us ? 

Dr. Naville. That is correct. 

Mr. Flood. I now ask the stenographer to mark for identification 
this envelope as exhibit 103 containing an obviously handmade wooden 
cigarette holder, and still visible thereon the marking of Kozielsk 
that the doctor described, as having been taken from one of the bodies 
at the graves at Katyn. 

(The above described envelope was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit 
103," and is now in committee files; photograph show^n below.) 

Exhibit 103 





Handmade wooden cigarette holder taken from body exhumed at Katyn. Kozielsk marked 

thereon. 



1610 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



Dr. Naville. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Flood. I ask the stenographer to mark for identification as 
exhibit 104 a photograph. 

(The described photograph was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit 104," 
and follows:) 



Exhibit 104 






Dr. Naville removing documents and box of matches from Katyn corpse. 

Mr. Flood. I show you exhibit 101 and ask you to describe who is the 
person on that photograph and what he is doing. 

Dr. Naville. That is myself, searching the body of this corpse 
which had not been searched before, and finding a box of matches. 

Mr. Flood. From the examination or observation of any or all of 
the documents that you saw on the body or in the exhibits at the 
Katyn area, did you notice what was the latest date appearing on any 
of the written documents ? 

Dr. Naville. I have seen many documents and newspapers, and the 
last date that was on any of them was the 22d of April 1910. 

Mr. Flood. Do you have any photographs showing in detail the 
degree of decomposition of any of the bodies? 

Dr. Naville. Yes, I have two of them. 

Mr. Flood. May I see those, please ? 

Dr. Naville. The first photograph shows a corpse at the moment 
an autopsy is made on the corpse, made by Dr. Hajek, I think. 

The second picture I do not remember and I don't know whether it 
was one of tlie corj^ses that we saw there, but, on the reverse side of 
this photograph, there is a remark in German that the picture was 
taken by the Germans and this represents a corpse from Katyn. 

Mr. Flood. Will the stenographer mark the fii'st one as exhibit 105 
and the second one, as described by the doctor, containing the German 
inscription, as 106? 



THE KATYN FOREST IMASSACRE 



1611 



(The photographs referred to were marked "Frankfurt Exhibits 105 
and 106," and follow :) 



Exhibit 105 




Dr. Hajek performs an autopsy on a Katyn corpse showing the degree of decomposition. 

Exhibit 106 




Exhumed body of Katyn Forest victim showing degree of decomposition. 



1612 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Flood. Have you any observations to make with reference to 
the degree of decomposition of the bodies at Katyn ? 

Dr. Naville. Naturally, I have seen hundreds of them — those which 
were already covered with body wax or body fat. 

Mr. Flood. What was the degree of decomposition with reference 
to the body tissue ? 

Dr. Naville. At some spots the tissue was already removed. In 
some spots there was already a process of calcification, but in some 
spots you could see a crust on it. 

Mr. Flood. Do you recall any statements made by the Scientist 
Orsos with reference to a scientific process having to do with the calci- 
fication of the brain pulp in the skull ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes, that referred to corpse No. 526. 

Mr. Flood. Will you tell us m brief what the premise of that 
theory was ? 

Dr. Naville. That was a process of calcification in the inside of the 
back part of the skull. I have here a publication by Professor Orsos 
concerning this subject that he had observed this process of calcifica- 
tion on a corpse lying in the ground more than 3 years. 

Mr. Flood. Wasn't the importance of the theory of Dr. Orsos im- 
portant for the purpose of establishing the time of death ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes, naturally ; but I don't know what is the value of 
a theory which only can be seen once in a thousand cases. 

Mr. Flood. Do you remember one of your colleagues, the Bulgarian, 
Markhov ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. And the Czech, Hajek? 

Dr. Naville. Yes, not as well as I remember the first one. 

Mr. Flood. Did the Bulgarian, Markhov, have any conversation 
with you during your stay at Katyn ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. I remember that I took walks with him, but I 
do not remember that we discussed the interpretation of these cases. 
But anyway, he didn't make any objections or special remarks. 

Mr. Flood. Did the Czech, Dr. Hajek, make any protests or special 
complaints or remarks? 

Dr. Naville. I do not have the slightest recollection of that. 

Mr. Flood. Did Markhov or Hajek both object to signing the pro- 
tocol, or did they sign it ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes; they signed it in my presence. 

Mr. P^LOOD. Do you have a photograph of such a signing ? 

Dr. Naville. It happens by accident that I have a photograph here 
where you can see me signing, and, on my right-hand side, is Markhov. 

Mr. Flood. May I see that, please ? 

Tlie stenographer will mark as exhibit 107 this photograph. 
(The photograph described was marked "Frankfurt Exhibit 107," 
and follows:) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 
Exhibit 107 



1613 




International Medical Commission signing protocoL 

Mr. Flood. I show you a photograph marked for identification as 
exhibit 107 and ask you if that is the photograph you just described? 

Dr. Naville. That's right. 

Mr. Flood. I now show the doctor a copy of the protocol we are 
discussing, that was handed to the committee by the distinguished 
Danish scientist Tramsen, and ask you whether or not you can recog- 
nize your signature on page 7 of that document? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. Do you subscribe to your signature and to that protocol 
today ? 

Dr. Naville. Yes. 

Mr. Flood. That's all. 

Mr. Dondero. 

Mr. Dondero. Doctor, did you see any rings, watches, or fountain 
pens on any of the bodies you saw at Katyn? 

Dr. Naville. No. 

Mr, Flood. Mr. Machrowicz. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Doctor, was any pressure exerted upon you to 
have you accept the assignment on this international commission ? 

Dr. Naa^lle. No. I was very much surprised, because it is a very 
well-known fact among the pulDlic that since World War I, I have 
hated the Germans so much. 

Mr, Machrow^icz. Did you receive any compensation or reward 
for your services on that committee ? 

Dr. Naville. None whatsoever. 

Mr. JMachrowicz, Has any undue pressure been exercised upon 
you to testify before this committee? 

Dr. Naville. No. 



1614 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Mr. Maciirowicz. Have you been offered any reward or remunera- 
tion for your services in testifying before this committee ? 

Dr. Naville. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Is your testimony before this committee free and 
vohuitary ? 

Dr. Naville. That's right. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Have you ever been approached by anyone with 
regard to changing your testimony which you gave at the time you 
signed the protocol in April 1943 ? 

Dr. Naville. ]So. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That's all. 

Dr. Naville. I remember that the German consulate asked me 
whether I wished to make a broadcast of my observations in Katyn, 
and I refused. I am a scientist, a doctor, a physician. I am not mak- 
ing any propaganda. 

Mr. Machrowicz, That's all. 

Mr. Flood. Doctor, the committee is very grateful that you would 
take the time from your professional work to come here today. We 
know that you were forced to rearrange your university schedule to 
accommodate the committee, but we felt it necessary that you appear, 
if you would be so kind, because of the importance of your distin- 
guished career, in addition to the fact that, at the time you were 
a member of the committee, you were a Swiss citizen and still are, 
so that we are especially pleased that you helped us by giving your 
testimony today, and we thank you very much. 

Chairman Madden. I might say that this will bring to a close the 
hearings in Europe conducted by the Special Congressional Commit- 
tee Investigating the Katyn massacre. 

The committee has conducted hearings in Washington and Chicago 
previous to coming to London and Frankfurt. 

The members of the committee who attended the daily meetings 
in Frankfurt were Congressman Flood of Pennsylvania, Congress- 
man Machrowicz of Michigan, Congressman Dondero of Michigan, 
and Congressman O'Konski from Wisconsin. Congressman Furcolo 
of Massachusetts and Congressman Sheehan of Illinois were unable 
to accompany the committee to Europe on account of personal and 
family reasons. 

On behalf of the committee, I wish to thank the press, radio serv- 
ices, and other news agencies who have cooperated so well with the 
committee in complying with the rules of the House of Representatives 
regarding hearings. 

In setting up the hearings in London and Frankfurt, it required 
a great deal of preliminary work and effort. Congressman Flood and 
Counsel John J. Mitchell came to Germany almost a month ago in 
order to prepare preliminary work that was essential for carrying 
on these hearings in Frankfurt, and Congressman O'Konski and In- 
vestigator Roman Pucinski wont to London at the same time in order 
to prepare the preliminary work for those hearings. By reason of this 
preliminary work, it enabled the committee to facilitate its hearings 
and to complete the London and the Frankfurt hearings in 2 Aveeks' 
time. 

The committee owes a debt of thanks to the special efforts and help 
extended to the committee by Mr. Ramsey, INIr. Graham, ]Mr. Sulkin, 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1615 

Mr. Parson, Mr. Von Rosbach, Mr. von Hahn, Miss Hieb, Miss Konkel, 
Miss Pikul, Miss Daniels, Mrs. Leonard, Miss Healy, and others who 
assisted in the reporting and recording of the testimony of this com- 
mittee. We also want to especially thank the interpreters: Mr. von 
Hahn, Mr. Mostni, and Miss Duplitza who did an excellent job 
indeed in aiding the work of the committee. 

I might say there will be a press conference immediately following 
adjournment of the committee, limited to the press and radio only. 

If any of the committee has any words to say, I will be glad to hear 
from them at this time. 

The Frankfurt hearings are now adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 35 p. m. Saturday, April 26, 1952, the com- 
mittee recessed subject to reconvene at call of the Chair.) 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 



SUNDAY, APRIL 27, 1953 

House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Select Committee 

ON the Katyn Forest Massacre, 

Naples^ Italy. 

On April 27, 1952, a subcommittee of the Select Committee on the 
Katyn Forest Massacre traveled to Naples, Italy, and took the 
testimony of Dr. Vincenzo Mario Palmieri. 

This hearing was held in Naples, Italy, on April 27, 1952, by a sub- 
committee of the special congressional committee authorized by Con- 
gress for the investigation of the Katyn massacre. The members of 
the subcommittee are Congressmen Ray Madden (chairman), George 
Dondero, and Thaddeus Machrowicz. Members Madden and Machro- 
wicz were present at this hearing. Also present was Roman Pucinski, 
the committee's investigator. 

The interpreter at the hearing was William Gargiulo, American con- 
sulate general, Naples, Italy, special assistant to the consul general. 
At this point in the hearing he was sworn by Chairman Madden. 

Also present was Dr. Prof. Vincenzo Mario Palmieri, Via Salvator 
Rosa No. 287, Naples, Italy. Dr. Palmieri was sworn by Chairman 
Madden. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. VINCENZO MARIO PALMIERI 

Chairman Madden. Doctor, very briefly for the record, please state 
how long you have been practicing medicine. 

Dr. Palmieri. Since 1922. 

Chairman Madden. What universities did you attend ? 

Dr. Palmieri. The University of Naples. 

Chairman Madden. Do you specialize or carry on a general practice 
of medicine? 

Dr. Palmieri. I specialize in forensic medicine and criminology. 

Chairman Madden. In the year 1943 were you invited to join a 
medical commission to make a medical investigation and examination 
of the bodies that were found in a large grave in the Katyn Forest near 
Smolensk in Soviet Russia ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Chairman Madden. From whom did you receive the invitation? 

Dr. Palmieri. From the Italian Ministry of Foreign Aifairs. 

Chairman Madden. What was the name of the man issuing this 
invitation ? 

1617 



1618 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Palmieri. The invitation came from the Ministry on April 23, 
telling me to leave on the following day for Rome and go to the Minis- 
try of Foreign Affairs, and when I arrived at the Ministry I was 
informed further what it was all about. 

Chairman Madden. But what was the name ? 

Dr. Palmieri. A functionary told me that this man was D'Astis, 
who was Director General within the INIinistry. 

Cliairman Madden. Where did you go from there? 

Dr. Palmieri. From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs we went to 
the German Embassy to get the visas and other documents. When 
we left the German Embassy, we were told to leave the day after for 
Berlin by air. 

Chairman Madden. Wliom did you meet? 

Dr. Palmieri. The entire commission was at the Hotel Adlon. 

Chairman Madden. Whom did you meet ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Dr. Naville, Dr. Orsos, Dr. Tramsen, Dr. Costendat, 
Dr. Markhov, Dr. Speelers, Dr. Hajek, Dr. Saxen, Dr. De Bulet. [Dr. 
Palmieri had forgotten some of these names but easily recalled them 
with the help of the subcommittee.] I knew some of these persons and 
met the others there. 

Chairman IMadden. Then what did you do ? 

Dr. Palmieri. There was a second meeting at the hotel in the eve- 
ning when we met Professor Buhtz a medical specialist, who was 
killed by the Germans in the last revolt, but at that time was present. 
He was a liaison officer. 

Chairman Madden. From there did you go to Katyn ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes, by air, accompanied by all of the members of the 
commission and Buhtz. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Do you know why you were selected? 

Dr. Palmieri. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You are unquestionably a specialist in this field 
of medicine ? 

Dr. Palmieri. There is proof of this matter at the University of 
Naples. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did anyone use any duress or coercion to have 
you on this commission ? 

Dr. Palmieri. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was this a voluntary act? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes, I might have said no. 

Mr. Machrowicz. When you arrived in Berlin did anyone use any 
pressure on you? 

Dr. Palmieri. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. After you arrived in Smolensk in Katyn did any- 
one use any duress on you ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Practically, we did not have any contact with the 
Germans, only technically. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Were you given the authority to go forward in 
the inspection of the graves? 

Dr. Palmieri. They showed us the bodies in the graves. Each one 
of the committee had as assistants two men and a stenographer. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Would you tell us exactly what you saw and 
what you did at Katyn? 

Dr. Palmieri. That is a long story. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1619 

Mr. Machrowicz. Only the important details to determine the time 
of the alleged killings. 

Dr. Palmieri. When a certain time has passed from the time of 
death, the possibility of determining the time of death becomes al- 
ways more difficult. Therefore one must study the corpse. General- 
ly, two conclusions may be reached by the magistrate on the time of 
death and can be determined in two ways : Firstly, when did the per- 
son die; secondly, between the two dates which we are giving you 
which is the most probable. The first question is far more difficult 
to answer if it is a question of establishing dates which are very near 
to each other when much time has passed. It is much easier to reach 
a conclusion on the second question, and this is what was done. Two 
dates are possible — April 1940 or October 1941. Between the two 
dates there are 18 months, this allows precise orientation. The an- 
swer to the question (1940-41) was influenced by two circumstances: 
(1) The state of the corpses, and (2) the plant life which had been 
planted over the bodies. In the bodies, or at least in many of the 
bodies, Professor Orsos observed the presence of growths (corns) — 
in the inside of the cranium pseudo-gi"owths in the internal part of the 
skull which are due to manifestations of reduction of the mineraliza- 
tion of the brain — of the cerebral tissues and of the other substances 
contained in the skull. In a special publication of Professor Orsos 
in 1934 he had called attention to the fact that these cerebral growths 
are noticeable on bodies which have been dead for at least 2 years. 
Orsos had been a prisoner of the Russians during the First World War 
and had been in Siberia and there had made these special studies which 
he published in 1934. Secondly, the question of the plants concerns 
the age of these plants. It is a fact that one notes when a tree is 
cut that each year a circle is noted for its age. There was this coin- 
cidence and led to the conclusion from a technical point of view, and 
there were others which are not technical arguments, for instance, 
material found in the pockets — letters, newspapers, diaries — none 
of these had a date later than April 1940. This was not a medical 
question. 

ISIr. Machrowicz. From your own experiences and experiments at 
Katyn did you come to any conclusion as to the time of death of the 
persons found in these graves ? 

Dr. Palmieri. I can say no more than when a person is buried 
between 18 and 30 months to establish the exact time of burial is dif- 
ficult. 

Mr. Machrowicz. What conclusion did you arrive at ? 

Dr. Palmieri. I came to a conclusion especially similar to Orsos' 
theory on the formation of cerebral growth. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was Dr. Orsos' conclusion that the deaths oc- 
curred not later than April or May 1940 ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you agree? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes, based on the researches that Dr. Orsos had 
made. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you sign a report on the results of the in- 
vestigation ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Before you signed, did you read and note the 
contents ? 



1020 THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes; we worked until 3 in the morning to find a 
f orniula in which everyone could sign. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Then you agreed to that formula? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Then your agreement was voluntary, not forced? 

Dr. Palmieri. No; voluntary. 

Mr. Machrowicz. You met Dr. Markhov there; did you not? 

Dr. Palmieri. I met him there. I did not know him before. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you have any conversation with him ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. In the course of the conversation you had with 
Dr. Markhov did he ever tell you that he was compelled or forced to 
take part on the committee ? 

Dr. Palmieri. We spoke of other matters. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he tell you whether or not he agreed with 
the conclusions of the report? 

Dr. Palmieri. No ; we did not speak of that. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you meet Dr. Frantisek Ha jek there also ? 

Dr. Palmieri. I knew him [Hajek] before. He was an assistant 
at the Medical-legal Institute in Prague. 

Mr. Machrowicz. How long before had you known Hajek? 

Dr. Palmieri. Several years. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did Dr. Hajek ever tell you that he was forced 
to become a member of the committee or to sign the report? 

Dr. Palmieri. No. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did he indicate to you that his action at the 
Katyn Forest was free and voluntary ? 

Dr. Palmieri. No. Only one person did not sign the results vol- 
untarily — Professor Costedort — because he was not authorized by the 
French Government. He was free not to sign but to be solely an 
observer. 

Chairman Madden. All other members signed willingly? 

Dr. Palmieri. As far as I know and believe the only one was 
Costedort — not because he did not agree but because he was not 
authorized. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Since signing the report have you changed your 
opinion as to the results. 

Dr. Palmieri. No. Also I have been obliged to make examinations 
of other corpses, and I have noted the same things found at Katyn ; 
that is the growths. 

Mr. Machrowicz, Are these pseudo-growths calcium deposits? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Has anyone used force or duress to make you 
appear before this committee today ? 

Dr. Palmieri. No ; I would also like to add that I am sorry that I 
could not come to Frankfurt as I was so busy. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Has this been a free and voluntary statement ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did your conclusion as to the time of death of 
those found in the Katyn graves rest also on the age of the trees upon 
the graves and upon the dates of the documents. In other words, was 
your decision based on all three factors ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. 



THE KATYN FOREST MASSACRE 1621 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you have the opportunity to select any docu- 
ments from the grave ? 

Dr. Palmleri. Yes. 

Mr. Machrowicz. "Wliere did you find the documents ? 

Dr. Palmieri. The bodies were pulled out from the ground and the 
documents were in the pockets. We went down in the graves and 
pointed out which one we wanted to pull out since the heads were 
out — the grave was only 3 meters deep. Looked like a wine cellar 
with the necks of the bottles showing. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Was it possible for someone to have put docu- 
ments into the pockets after burial ? 

Dr. Palmieri. No ; because the bodies were so near to each other that 
it would have been impossible to get between. They were packed in 
like anchovies in a barrel. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you personally take documents from the 
bodies ? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes. It was the first thing we examined after look- 
ing at the exterior of the bodies. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Did you find any documents dated after April 
1940? 

Dr. Palmieri. No. First we examined the documents, then the 
clothing, and then followed with the autopsy. 

Mr. Machrowicz. Is it your conclusion today that the persons 
were killed in April 1940 ? 

Dr. Palmieri. It is the same as then ; I have not changed. 

Mr. Machrowicz. That is April 1940? 

Dr. Palmieri. Yes ; based on the three points. 

The Chairman. Doctor, we are very grateful and wish to thank you 
for coming here today to testify. 

Dr. Palmieri. I would also like to add that I was never a Fascist 
and that in a certain way I was persecuted for not being a Fascist be- 
cause in 1933 they withdrew my card as a Fascist. I just had it for 
1 year because as a theoretical man I could not agree with the Fascist 
doctrine. 

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